20 Episode results for "Buxton"

RHLSTP 277 - Adam Buxton

Richard Herring's Leicester Square Theatre Podcast

1:30:45 hr | 6 months ago

RHLSTP 277 - Adam Buxton

"Hello welcome to a bit of a different. This is a new era. It'll be like this for the short term. And maybe the term who knows but this is a remote Hamas the best up saying that you people over there with the wonderful Adam Buxton. We recorded in about seven weeks ago. I think a near the beginning of lockdown on nearer the beginning of lockdown We are now near the end of lockdown who knows when that will be We're going to carry on doing these. We've done five or six already and That will be more we record them. An ICAN watched them live on Wednesday nights at eight PM on Twitch Dot TV Slash Archaic Herring There might be a couple of weeks. I take off just because I'm writing a book at the moment but Choon in then there's lots of other stuff on twitch dot TV Ashok herring including morning stone appearing evening Snooka playing Sunday nights. I'm watching films and directors commentaries and you can watch along with the film at home And playing video games and planning what other stuff we can get up to with A live broadcast on twitch. You can subscribe to that. And if you're with Amazon prime you can give me five pounds a month with no extra cost yourself. You just have to link your accounts and then subscribe. Remember to come back each month and subscribe again. If you've got to do it for me please do for someone on twitch because this free money sitting in your account that you can give take it from me an Amazon gift to someone who deserves it. I will use any money I get to turn back into making more podcast content for you so yeah. It's sad that we lost lots of potentially fantastic live guests But hopefully they will all return and we'll be doing stuff in the theatre again in the autumn. That's when some suspect to go back in but we'll see if not we'll keep providing content online and wait until we have the all clear to come out of our bunkers and be humans once again were. That's in five months or five hundred years I will. We will return and it was it. Last week wasn't a bad way to end and suddenly the week before we've Michael Palin got that one in the back you know what I'm talking about anyway. Gophers destroyed don't badges. If you want to just give us some money and get lots of stuff in return. Lots of Nice Extras. Let's sit back. Relax and enjoy this slightly weird but rather charming and lovely to fuel clapping. Hoste with Sir Adam Buxton. Thank you very much. Oh how you doing? Welcome welcome to the first ever live stream the share his pencil rich herrings live streaming on twitch podcast that but I was hanging around with myself in self-isolation honest about so I don't know if that's going to catch him Welcome to the show about please. Well the man is very strange during without an audience. Though there's those people say zooming by in the chat room if you're listening to the Paul cost a couple of months time. Hello hope the world is still here. You may be ordered the ragbag of survivors so because of the current situation in the world we assigned to do. We have loads of stored up in a big podcast silo and food. She's given out to a week because we thought we'll never get through these Ohio. We regret that now. So we didn't want of these every Wednesday night on twitch it will then be released you better watch on twitter about him up and then released its ton as a genuine regular rather because if this works which it seems to be done so far the news. I- hundred and eight to nine view is in already that's fantastic. We'll pass the when nearly the highest ever released a live audience ever. Maybe that will happen as we go through. We surpassed the total very sad that we should have been doing Adam and Joe and lally had a p just two days ago It's very sad to miss those costs. They should hopefully be rescheduled We'll do our best. And those are the Birmingham Festival and Edinburgh. Festival PROBABLY WON'T BE RESCHEDULED Do something from home if you enjoy this. Hey you can become a bad jurist you know you can subscribe on twitch. If you're an Amazon prime member you can subscribe without any custody yourself and give us five dollars every month if he wants to By linking your accounts. There's a video on my youtube one. Nine having one nine six seven. That would explain all that if you would prefer to not give any money. We have no money. That is fine too. If you prefer to give some money to charity could you google just giving heckle the virus and you can donate some money to help all the club? Comedians who are currently unable to work suddenly still their work. And we've got up by eight to five thousand pounds with that fund but that is enough to last eight tweaks so we do need some more Whether it's over an exciting we self isolating. It's been nice to spend time with the kids and also living help spend time with the kids. It's the worst thing ever this morning. Although it's come study feels a bit like rural. It'll and it's nice to be with the family all the time and we've been playing Anne in the breakfast. My daughter loves the soundtrack to Anne. This the Sun will come out. Tomorrow is a very inspirational song. That's been helping through especially this morning when they sang. Bet Your bottom dollar and my daughter went bottom laughed and my son Loft. Everything's GonNa be off it. We still laughing that we'd find a at the news today. Is that men in the fifties and sixties the most susceptible new demographic to get the virus and die so I'm delighted also sort of think. This is really bad news risks. I was getting quite fit till lockdown. Now I'm just drinking beer and not exercising and so we can have what happened at two months of this just as the viruses is most virulent. They will hit to some willow Wipeout it'd be like the Pied Piper Feminine of Middle Age men and maybe it's good. Maybe we should die. I've been married for eight years. I guess that I I didn't any snoop yesterday. I was disappointed. Hold of that seventy of Maj. I didn't get seventy eight shuttle this come to the eight year. Weeping sores spray away but as said a sign that I'm in love or something a good isn't it. What else was I going to talk? I was worried about money. I've had to cancel so many gigs. And of ostentatiously gave way loads of money because of that. Oh to come up hopefully will be rescheduled. But I haven't heard anything from them And I was getting paid. Well for that GIG so I'll give money to the heck well the virus thing that not canceled like the day before I mean on the day I think it was but luckily on Friday the twentieth much I got an email. That says this is official. Notice of unclaimed fund of ten point. Five million left by Mr Herring. Who died in a car crash upon your positive response will make all the information known to once I confirm your wing regards mark so that was good news of ten point. Five million coming in from a guide a formal letter but he's very informal. Marcus naked just signing mark. I think he's trying to in with may so that when I get the money he give some of it. But I'm not going to vote for that. It's my money. I'm going to enjoy gullible. May I'm not going to give you the money. Just 'cause you're trying to be my mates. I'm a bit consent. Says ten point five million? That doesn't seem ten point. Five million of what? I think he might be ten point. Five MILLION TRIM PHONES. We will seek anyway. I hope you enjoyed off menu. You can still catch the off mid new fade and also the cosmic shambles video feed on Youtube. Bettas putting caused a lot of consternation. It's a real thing I didn't make. It was like the first. I've been playing football manager here. Snoop on here Kevin. Toms who created for managers been watching me play football manager which is one of the most surreal things. I've ever experienced matching the fourteen year old maid knowing that one day the man who created the game was playing would be watching me playing. What would be the worst thing that you could have the person you were thinking of what you did. Matt. Let's move on. We'll think some more emergency questions as we subscribe if you want to follow me. We've currently as we speak full thousand. Eight hundred eighty two follow. We might get up to five thousand and we got one thousand. Five hundred twenty two viewers is the highest ever viewership for an episode of lestas. I thank you very much for that. Hopefully more will come in Do Subscribe to follow me at least and if you can afford to pay money you can pay money if you want to do. The free money tell friends will be here every Wednesday evening but my guest tonight. He's probably best known as the ghost of Prince Quintas in Stardust. I've ever talked to him about before which I can't believe. Will you please welcome? Amanda was meant to be talking to with another man on Monday. It's Adam Buxton here. He is there he is. Hey how you doing man. I'm very good how are you? This is exciting isn't it? It is exciting. Yes modern technology. We thought it was a bunch of Shit we thought all day was enable disgruntled disaffected angry loses on the Internet wrong. It enables middle aged soon to die geniuses like ourselves to produce important broadcasts like this one to keep the nation's packers up. I think so I wanted you to the first one because I thought who better to chair everyone up and hopefully hopefully will we. Weren't you worried about the you know I wasn't that worried about it? And then when Boris Johnson got seriously ill OFA. This could actually get me. Are you worried? Now you're if you're fifty now I am fifty. Been the danger zone. I don't know I feel I've had I've been through the the thinking that you've got the symptoms phase course and he have you had the thing of kind of breathing and thinking. Oh that's a little painful painful I have not I. I was a bit ill when stole signed up. I had a bit of either kind of bug of the kid. So right aunt. That's the thing is that visited loads of bugs around anyway. Hard to tell which one is which everyone is desperate to reach the point where you can take the test and find out if you had it or not. You know the dream scenario is actually you did have it and you. J- you just toughed it out didn't even affect fuck corona virus. But but you should. Should we say at the top here that Like should we say a serious thing about how seriously we take it and how grateful we ought to the frontline workers and all that kind of thing and then put that will get us off the hook if we are then from then on flipping and inappropriate about the entire situation? Well I yeah by also. I'm disappointed that hasn't been an eight o'clock clap for the podcast is the world on on the clap else's finished doing the clap without for Jack was that for Boris. You've made me so it was that for the having. I'm happy to have been praying for him all day. I when I have a fair you know. I want to get to the point where we're able to go make the joke of. I wish he had died when he had the coronavirus. That is what I'm hoping for but I'm I'm still still I'm I'm very. I'm hoping you'll have a go through. It will survive and go then just is really good. We should be much nicer than than we planned to be pretending to be nice to them anyway. So I I predict that. He asked him to be absolutely fine. I confidently predict boy. Maybe this is a stupid confident prediction coming out. I comforted that. He is as we speak. watching a box set Propped up on pillows Checking his twitter feed catching up on some reading and having a nice little break. Yeah and you know. Because they haven't into into baited him or anything like that have they. I think he's I that I mean. This is gonNA come out in the PUCK Australia compliment. So they will know Home my fear is that he'll die on Good Friday and then come back alive on Easter Sunday. And he is the new. Jesus that is my worry. That's my mcmurray. We'll we'll the scenarios that is the worst thing that can happen But if he is Jesus will say we'll see what happens but what I'm most other you know. I don't want him to die. I hope he survives more scared for myself as a middle-aged man. I kind of thought I was quite good to get it. Get it get it over with but now I'm sort of thinking probably the one that happen. The random factor the not knowing how you will respond to. It is a frightening aspect. But it's quite if you die if you die animals still put this as a tribute to an open up. I'll I'll do an intro from where I can hold a picture of you and go. Very say happened Buxton and if you do this for me but well have an zing charity all the Comedians of the UK and all the finest comedians all across the world will come together and senior praises and say lines that you did and will play back times when you offended people and said the wrong thing. Stephen Merchant will give a very tasteful speech About how you are an edgy genius. Kayla a CIA this radical change of subject go for Your Shot Yorkshire. Tea made me some customized t like bespoke a bit further over. 'cause you're not in the quite a bit of the camera put it in front of your face. Dr Buckles T no way. Yeah and I think they said to me back in the day when I think they maybe they hoped I would tweet it or something like that but I always feel a bit queasy when people do things like that when they send you stuff in the and they're obviously hoping that you will tweet it and So I didn't but I do love it and I do love Yorkshire Tea and I thought this my and now I'm not on twitter so I thought well this this'll be a good opportunity to just take those show off they made me some personalized t haven't opened it yet. You're going to drink tea Well we'll see how things go. I mean H age teabag might be made from your flake skin or something like that or release of your face. It'd be great if it was just the tea. Just face made Adam Buxton face the on as every time you don't be possible Kiara it. It does say it's made from my flaked skin. Fuck no I don't want to. I think that's quite good. Isn't it personalized pretty good? I haven't sought out of t t t this being like t supplies or okay at the shops. Yes yeah well I mean nearly. Everything's back to normal. Low went before and obviously toilet roll. Inexplicably disappeared and flower. Flower has not come back one thing flour and fish fingers which I understand. What is my the kids all that sort of bits or tape flour? There was when I went to eggs before will happen. I was in white throws in Hitchin and only pags were was one. Pack of Quayle's x is the most hate is the most hitch in sick. But I still meant the old. The other quayle's exit there are now eggs But no flower. Everyones tending to a baking. British bake off champion. I Dunno if ever thought will make our own food from scratch. What about the chocolates situation chocolate? But I don't eat chocolate stopped eating chocolate. I don't eat chocolate and most of that. But that's the for that low. The by for the kids. Everything was fine. I tried both. I tried by full bottles of five hundred milliliter diet coke and I had to put one back because they were limited three that I got caught out. How does it work than with do they do? They define. What essential items are. I haven't actually been to the supermarket since the lockdown began. Living while how you eat to the My my wife goes so she does. I think she likes doing it because she gets to go. Out of the compound and Kilo human beings and you saw the hero for risking your life going out there but you are risking else life by returning home. The person that goes to save mark as lockdown for fourteen days mate. She threw white a lengthy talks procedure when she gets back. I swear I shouldn't be saying this. Probably but she doesn't bring the bags into the house she leaves from outside the House and then she transfers each item in two into like a been and then she hoses down the band. And then she whites everything with sanitary wipes and stuff and I mean. It's she thinks that can opals happen. Does something but it is. It's going to get him. It's the only way it's going to get in post post deliveries or so but you know cautions at the supermarket at all or I mean but then people come and I went. You know I go in and you touch something indigo no. We'll have that one. You know you pick something up and then you put down. Does that everyone just totally touch my face. All the time a concept during that I was doing the key pattern though it's not just the drought is the I touched the keypad to pay for my food. So you know it's just last time. I took a big bottle of hand sanitizer in my pocket that was. I decided to date to get cut. Now you're right you're right now. I thought that's what you're gonNA come in. They can't get into the house without someone bringing in on the packet Joel from outside from the outside world. So you know. We're safe as long as we stay inside. Yes no you're right. You're right now that I think of it. When I go to the supermarket I sneeze. I drew Dariel. I kiss the woman at the checkout or the guy just kissed the checkout us in an. It's very it's there's a lot of saliva so it's just as well that I'm not recovered doing the shop We ran out of toilet paper ages ago. So Yeah I've been just every morning one of the routines now is I. Use the Jet Washer everyone lines up Ben's over and jet wash load on a Lotta acting. Otherwise it's just mayhem but that's a good routine. What about have you got any good new routines lockdown routines? I'm just finding it so we're trying to work ways that we can work and he's writing and look after the case just awful haven't took after kids all the time. Yeah because you'll don't don't rea- How old are yours? Five and two so the five year old was at school which was helpful in the two year old. We had help and my mother-in-law come over and you know you realize how much help had and so did not have any of that at all and you still trying to. I'm just so tired. I'm drinking to excess to get. It's it's it's a beautiful thing is lovely and the the the I think you'll thinking this morning you saw stop film. I understand the spirit of the blitz and I'm not comparing to the blitz in any other way but you understand how people back at the blitz and thought L. but it was a happy time we did business. 'cause you're closer an even things are happening. You'll think he wants. This is over. I'm going to look back at my daughter laughing at your bottom dollar and I'm going to really love that memory if I'm still alive if not I'll leave a over there. I remember that and she can enjoy So you know I think you understand that in a year almost in the moment fitting the nostalgia for the so loads of a is with living in the country as you are Kinda Delic and it's fine. It's not that different than my real normal life to me on. Yeah that's the thing. It's it's only when you look at the news that everything Suddenly slides into perspective. And and the and you can't I mean it's hard not to while you're always reminded of how lucky w-we and how grim it would be if you'll situation was different if you didn't like where you living few Living with people you didn't want to be with a few Living with Gary I mean God. The ceremony ways it could just be unbearable and Even like when we moved to this house we just had a some of the assassin. I baby every was half built in. You know it was just happened then it would have been and we had a terrible for five months where things that wrong event happened. Then it would have just been dammed of literally I'm now thinking of. It happened in the nineties when I lived on my own. And you know that wasn't even a proper Internet to help you out really It would have been just saw people like that so the Nice thing I think is there is the Internet. There is stuff to do there. Are you can talk to people and interact with people? But yeah I mean if you dating if you were in a relationship but you you know you if you WANNA have sex in the next three months you're GonNa do just winkled you have to do. This would likely be. It'd be like being married. That's the other thing now for six months. Married people on average having slightly more sex than single people think night is the. That's why would say the single people having no sex and some web married couples one just a couple of upsets once in the next two months and would have had more sex and the single people. Yes I reckon do that in the next few months. How about arguments have you had? What kind of things if you argued about have? You argued with your. I'm arguing less. Always argue like we always get the frustration of just the tidiness gets to us and we have had one or two but actually everything's become a lot. Calmer as a result of this is kind of weird out things in the news not too badly. Have you been arguing about that view? Argued about I mean low level stuff. It's all being fairly harmonious. Actually it's all I like God. It feels like wow we. We went nice. We made a good decision here. And I like my children. Most of the time My wife is great and I just think she's terrific. The only time that she has made me a little bit sad is she's just discovered What's up and said social networking and messaging APPS and now. All her buddies are in constant contact sending her means and so she just a maintenance as far as I can tell most of them come from the Daily Mail Online. So she's just got this nonstop. Daily Mail online memed feed which is Making me a bit sad. Some of them quite good. Have you seen the Irish goal? Saying I'm six. Why can't I go to the pub you would you let go to the public? Six I haven't I haven't seen many names that that's a good one. I mean that's not an owner virus. What I don't know where that one came. But she's very charming humorous young woman who is six and very indignant that she is not allowed to go to the poverty and What are the other ones this up? There's a corona virus one of a guy a set of sexy guy dancing around with his top off and then off to the lockdown. And it's a fat guy bouncing around with this. Talk off yeah. My mother-in-law thought that standard that's happened in. What was that? My mother Rosa forwarding humorous things and not miss us so much mainly for the childcare that I have to pretend by. Enjoy all of an. Everything's but I think she has sent me that one yet so have seen a few means we didn't. We didn't argue about that. But I was a bit shitty about it. I just said Like that was in the first week of lockdown. And I said something like Oh Jesus I hope you. Don't show me these memes every day of the law and I said it in quite as Shitty way and so that was a that was some tension there and then we had from nowhere. This ridiculous conversation at supper about while Sweden doing things so differently. Okay and she said like. Isn't it weird that Sweden had just taking a totally different approach to the whole thing and I I and maybe I was in a bad mood or something but I just said no? It's a totally different country. They do every they do loads of things different than the society is structured in a totally different way. It's not comparable. They can do things their own way. They lie anyway. It said degenerated from the. I think it'd be better if every country did hundred different way. We could find out the best way to handle it. That's the thing so I think every country say I'm choosing to lockdown. I'm choosing everyone still goes out. And then we say which was the best way is heard. I heard immunity would work now. That's there's too many variables. That's the thing it's like you could. The islands could do it so if all the island said right. We're going to do. We could say we're going to do here. Immunity and ATMs the only way to do that experiment to do it with Center. Parcs seeing how all the different center pox. Do it have community down within each sent pox in the UK and then see how it spreads within the lodges. I've well it'd be interesting to say how people live the future. Listen to this in the in the near future do with that. Well let's move. Let's move on. Let's talk about something else. Okay let me get my way reading back to. I love go free will we? Of course we will. I as much as this is why I wanted. This is the worst things to me this year. Out of everything eight well. The worst thing is was going to have a really good year especially end of March. Everybody was really kicking off I had a really good at TV. Thinking that cy was happening and the had Loads OF GIGS. And Big Gigs. And I was going to end of money and then everything shut down so that was bad. I saw the guy. Everything's GonNa be fine. I'm having a great year. So that's bad but the the thing the worst thing that's happened to me dishes I realized that I. My Mind's eye is blind a blind minds. I do you know about this. There was a big on facebook a few weeks ago. Where asks you to visualize an apple in your mind? If you close your eyes and visualizing apple got a very three dimensional lovely colored apple. A two dimensional countered apple would you see? A to eventual black and white apple. You see a very blurry. So of apple or nothing may it's HD Jazz Apple. It's terminator in three hundred sixty degrees a taken a bite out of it. I can see the bite now. It's delicious this how it hasn't been dropped. There's no bruising. There's no soft part. Yeah so all functioning correctly in the mind. Cy I say I say if I if I think of an apple I just think of the word Apple Water Apple. What about if you think of genitals is that better now? I was started because obviously if I'm thinking if someone's face right remember something if someone's face but it's very. I'd no idea that I had this mental disability. It is really. I think it's almost twice. What happened is I of got a flash of IT. But it's like if you've got a flash on your retinas you would have vague. It's like the images store behind my head. I can think less than Boxton same but can sort of work it out from there. I don't I don't see you can see. I'm looking at you but I have no minds I is that what is that. Is that memory. You don't have good visual recall. Been Just not even memories. Just I can't have closed minds. I don't see anything. Everything in my head is is in an internal monologue if I think of an Apple. I'm just I'm just thinking of what an apple is like but I can't say it may be all over stimulated visually and if you were on a desert island or in a blank room like in a dark room or something have you do you meditate now because there's no point silicon. I've got now. I didn't if they hadn't told me I wouldn't have known about this and now I know about it. I'm just bereft icon clothing like well when you imagine. Say that. Say you're imagining a past sexual encounter at with somebody wasn't your current partner. I believe it's known as the bank. I can't I don't I don't see I don't actually see you don't have anything say you don't have any bank. We'll I thought I did and I thought maybe it's just in the you know. I've used pornography so much. I think of anything that maybe it's so wipes is like an sketching. It's broken how much I shake everything backing and yeah exactly. But it's really. What is the WIG to find that in fifty two that you've dispiritedly did not about? I'm hoping I can have a parking space. Been trying to get the parking spaces for a long time. You'll get one for that way. So you've got it's a great thing and loads of. I've met several people who like me conduct the people doing as well now and trying to work out where they can see things in the head. What do you think about when you go to sleep like just before you fall asleep on you foaming images in your mind then but then images that? I'm thinking all the time when somebody will have no internal model. That's terrifies me. Some people don't think in words a tool. What did they just noises? I guess just they only say things I guess but they have no they have no voice in the head narrating voice the rights. Yeah that's sort of what my internal monologue is like a lot of the time thinking in court Moore. I mean yes. I've got vase own words so I guess my brain is just telling me. I think if the minute I fall asleep I say stuff and the minute when I'm half asleep Started Madrid's but I just can't bring anything to mind I bet you is. I bet you can't visualize how you would respond if bt sent you a new look bill well. Luckily I've got a leaflet that shows you look. You'll bill has a new look and here's what it looks like when two people see bill you'll said this lady saying how do you feel now that you're bt? Bill has she's saying how is just such a surprise in great and Sny Mahaffey? Just fill so hurtful. Now that the bill hasn't you look it's Great. Isn't it beyond? That's that makes. I'm worrying about everything. Now what about everyone big? Every time I see anyone that close I just worry about the catching the coronavirus. Econ kind enjoys ways changes the world. Maybe no one will ever touch each other again. You know I've been thinking about that. I do think that you know. In in China. The face mosques people wearing facemasks has been part of that culture for many years. Not everybody used to wear them. But you would see people in China with face masks and I wonder if it'll be more like that here now and yeah the idea of of going to a a a sweaty auty and dancing around and Kinda draping your arm around someone and just. I think I would think twice about doing that now. Not that I have did it very often in olden days but I think I would not quite are like what about after a Gig doing sell fees and things like that. Yeah well I thought because I was the date which might talk about later. I did my final live realistic over and I went out and did all the signings stuff and it was still just at that point. I know you know it's that we do. We have to care for was laughing about. I went from meeting two days later. It was so still shaking hands. We went to do that and then suddenly by the time the know within wake by Monday. We were canceling all the gigs of that thing. So yeah did so think about that. When I was thinking I was going to do the Monday gig. So I'M GONNA go out and sell merchant sign virtual that be weird or it's all those things completely change because I'm happy for people. They these nerd to watch this stuff. They will come up and you don't they. Did they do that to you? Yeah I enjoy it. I like hugging people. And I like Kissing people if I get an opportunity. I'll miss them so I have. You know okay yes. That is a shame I spoke to is. She's out in reading and she's on her own. So you'll SAM. I am a bit worried about. I think she's finally getting the measure of the situation. She was in denial for quite a long time. She lives in a Seattle village and she was saying. Oh I wish this. I'm looking forward to this crisis when it's not really a crisis is it anding and I said yeah is. Mum is a crisis it's an actual crisis. And she said well. Yes okay I mean. I don't like it it's not very it's just. It's all a bit depressing and I go from my walk down by the river and I'm allowed to go for a walk so I go for the my war and in before people used to look at you and say hello and and now people don't even look at you know. I know I felt bad for her. Everyone's been much more friendly a thing. I live in quite friendly village anyway. But everyone's been really supportive a nice here. That's what you're gonNA walk in Ohio. Hey doing yeah. It's been attacked. My Dog's not coping well with an dogs. Having the worst time of the everyone she usually gets walked at some with a load of the dogs by Doug. Wilkin the village. He's really missing that but she's just died if she's off the league show just just going to live from adults so you're gonNA keep on. She's never done that before. The rain is that's really way but apart from that everyone's been very nice. My dog attacking their dogs. She ever has been very nice. I literally unseen anyone apart from my family for three weeks. Apart from the post delivery person right going out you walking. Have you got big enough garden to what your dog ran the garden or do you take the Dog Rosie? We're in the middle of a load of fields. Were Very Lucky. And we can just walk along the fields and we don't see anyone like we. We never see anyone anyway and I. It's where I go and record my intros and our troth the podcast and the reason if you listen to the podcast that I'm able to shout as loudly as I do at the end of each odd cost. Say I love you is that there's no one around there's never I never see anyone so We're lucky we can kind of come and go as we please necessarily. You're going out more than once. You're doing more than once a day walking around or you I mean it. Just it works out that it's generally once And then the rest of the time you know to if you press ups And then go out with Rosie. I've tried to my mission is to be able to pogo round the house. My wife thoughts in Pogo sticks. You have done Poe going. My brother did it when I was a kid and I was in deep but he was a bit older than me and I was in a lot of admiration by was too young bill to do it then. I never let to do it living nightmare. It's the worst my dad when when my dad was alive and he used to review music videos for the Adam and Joe show and one of the videos. He reviewed was Super Cross late in the day. And I don't remember that video it's them all on pogo sticks going around London and my dad just got a bee in his bonnet about that video and he said why are they on pogo sticks. It's absurd it's utterly absurd. How Music Video? It's just fun. It's that the director just thought while fits in with a bouncy feel of the track. It's the worst form of transport ever invented. He said that was his main objection. Was that it wasn't a good form of transport. So why would you have it in a video? But he's right. It is absolutely shit as a form of travel and also. It's not fun because it's so it requires so much energy and coordination that it's absolutely exhausting within about three bounces. Especially if you're fifty years old enough especially fit. You're ready to have a coronary. So my mission is to be able to get round the whole house without toppling off the pogo stick. Good to have something to aim for. Just I'd like to think I would achieve something while I'm in lockdown but I'm really. I'm finding very difficult to do anything over you or your kids belder but you home schooling your kids are they. Just getting on with themselves Now the thing my two boys one of them was GONNA do as GPS's and the other one was going to do his a levels right so you know that whole situation is still up in the rear. Know what they're GONNA do. I have a vague feeling that. They're going to reopen the schools before September. I can't believe they going to remain closed until then I think for all sorts of reasons to give people a break to get the economy going a little bit more and I don't know I feel as if maybe they'll go back but then if they do it'll be weird like it's hard to know what the teachers would actually teach them now that they've had all this time often the exams a completely up the spout because at the moment the idea is that they're going to be assessed and assessed on their coursework plus the mark. They got in the mocks. My some one of my children didn't do wellness marks as she eight and he said he was saying to us like when he did incredibly badly. We were saying Why did you do quite so badly as there's something emotionally up that we should know about new? No no no no. I'm fine? I'm fine He's not did badly with the I just didn't revise. So you've got to revise. That's the thing about exams protests you have is and then you do much better when you revised said Yeah. I'm GonNa do that for the real ones. So that's not gonNA happen now. And they get this wit assessment. And then you're gonNA get like the older ones go away at assessment for his a levels and then he has to apply to University of the back of the anyway so that's all a bit weird and stressful and a now that it's officially Easter holidays ignoring it. Ignoring Nazis to whole nice is you know is quite signing my daughter. Obviously then trying to teach Someone to read and it's not very full on. She's five but then there's a two year old running around trying to get involved in everything Incredibly stressful very difficult. We're trying to do half a day on half a day off so we could work like if we been around. I do morning my wife until the afternoon but we just got nowhere them so now we're doing a day on a day off but then the day on would look enough. The kids even without the schooling is just so hot. So I'm so tired today to it's just read the idea of like reading a book anything. Icon. I can't let you come even leave the kids for more than a minute. In say you go to be in the room with the one The other day yesterday I kind of basically tuned out there watching the Little Mermaid and like knew he was doing something bothell is fine and I was watching that and it was behind this for any. Pull THE TABLE OVER. Climbed the bookcase and pulled down my daughter's Growing patients and then it will Farah Garden. He pulled down and thrown. And I haven't seen any of this thrown at clump by clump all over the floor and then thrown all the upside down to the floor and got simple what you doing. He said that. Don't my Daddy. It's only soil was so it was like innocent. I and I was thinking my wife is absolutely gonNA murder machine working on this thing with my daughter and it's entirely my fault so because I take them off the ball. I was in the same room as in by taking off the bowl. And then did you. Did you say to your wife's okay Sony soil so I managed to go? I just knew I had to go right in. This is entirely my fault. It was very upset when he was when he's on a new everything that should have done but I just I'd slacked back for ten minutes and it was. It was a bad thing but then it could be worse. Couldn't he slapped back with ten minutes and then go what's way? Oh these these things a no. It's been very difficult. I'm very very grateful that Old enough to sort of look after themselves during the day and at left me time to do all my projects I've written Two two and a half screenplays I've written a very good play which about a middle-aged man on lockdown any finds a portal to another dimension behind the blues. And that's already been nominated for several major awards and I'm learning Chinese and I am becoming very fit and I'm volunteering for the NHS. I've got the APP the good Sam. I'm going out and helping people and Yeah I've been recording my audio book so of course you have. Yeah so you're the ramble books. So what is the rambled? But is it an autobiography as it? Just no I think it's called a memoir so I think the difference between an autobiography memoir as far as I am aware is autobiography. Is your whole life. All the exciting things you've done but as I haven't done that many exciting things and it's not like oh I can't wait till he gets to that bit about the persuasion est or whatever I know this is about. It's mainly about growing up in the eighties. It's it's sort of a forensic series of reminiscences about my adolescence and making friends with Joe and the music I was listening to in the movies we were watching and formative cultural influences and then juxtaposed with that the other main. Motif is my relationship with my dad who For those who don't know was in our TV show the TV show. I did with Joe Cornish on Channel. Four in the nineties and then He died a few years ago and so when he died. I realized that It was quite a weird relationship that I had with him in some ways. I mean not weird just quite formal I think like a lot of people of a certain generation and perhaps a certain class. There's a kind of weird formality. I was always envious of people who got on so well with their parents you know and wanted to call them every day and chat and laugh with them and tell share secrets and I never ever had that relationship with my parents I wanted them to do is go away. I wanted them to give me what I wanted. And the naval me to do everything I wanted but there was no sort of Close Bond and my theory is that that's probably because they sent me to boarding school and I think one of the prices you pay for being sent to boarding school is not really ever having that same close relationship with your parents again. I'm sure that's not true for everyone. I'm sure some people find with it but I think that's what happened to me anyway. So the book is like hopefully funny series of Ramblings about my dad my relationship with him what it was like when he came to live with us when he was will and looking off to him and And then stuff about my own family and stuff about Joe and friends and all that kind of stuff so it sounds good evening. Audiobook that last week you will recall nearly but if you're doing that You doing that. We do now. Yeah been doing right here in my not room and I listened to a lot of audiobooks. I like well. I like the fact that I've been asking this emergency questions. I'll ask you this. I listened to what works. And it's a real privilege to get to hear the author reading their own work when it's the win it's the actual subduing him. If you could have any book from history or from all time before they start doing the books probably read by the author. Who would you like to hear? Reads a book out. A We imagining. They all going to be any good at reading it. Yeah I mean maybe maybe not. I mean Charles. Dickens probably pretty good because he used to those state shows of his own books than these big you I'll be very interested to hear that because I would like to know if he's good or if he was Bahamian as you never know it was good. Dickens might have had a very cliquey mouth or he might you know. There's there's all manner of quite distracting irritating vocal tics. Yeah Yeah That you get with audio books. I I downloaded one the other day and I won't say who is just trying to scan forward in this anecdote to check for potential problems But that it's like a quite serious side memoir about someone who loved them and then she got ill and died and it's all about the process of grieving for this guy's mom and it is it was written by someone roughly our age Same sort of social background. Whatever and the guy they got to read the Audio Book is just Nothing like the F- The fellow that wrote it whatsoever. It sounds if they got a set of aging Thespian to read the audiobook and he he reads it a so. It's just stuff like he reads it in this offense and so he's talking about his mother and saying she goes to bake the most marvelous cakes and I would come into the kitchen and say mum. I love your cakes. The going full on with their with espy read and it just completely destroys it And I I had to stop reading after well for for a bit. It was fun. It was quite good. I was seen my mates more and more often than those standards and be feeling very excited about the prospect of getting it together with my new girlfriend. I don't I'm not doing justice to the actual tax but it was all that set of pitch of Well it's into. What is wrong when the wrong person doing something? It's really interesting or just for you sometimes. Isn't it some of them? I just find impossible especially novel. Sometimes you'll really get into sometimes. It's like impossible getting to listening to John. Malkovich do breakfast of champions which is Great He's just like the way he's just. He's very Malkovich and any sort of fits it very well. I had Michael Palin. Which will. We'll talk about some of the guests you've had had mike and finally on That's the only good thing that's happened this year. If that had been canceled as well I think that would have been just so upset because that was the most exciting thing for me this year. but he's he he was doing erebus. He adds so much more having him. He's so good but I asked him. He'd happened he went. He did a funny bit about Roman ulcers which people humble hit or willing light like. I'd quite like I'd like J- you know James. Joyce doing ulysses something with weird language. Yeah what I make him do that as well making after. Sit through and read all that required goods. Yeah do like I listened to the audio of Clockwork orange the other day anthony birds and of course that's all written in Nad. Sat. This would made up semi Russian language. That the all do and who was the guy that Read it He's an actor and he's British and he's anyway Ron no not hugh grant young. I think maybe is it. Even the guy who's who does the I'm embarrassed forgotten his name because I should know it. James mcevoy No. It's but it's not not a million miles away. Is Maybe the guy who does the Sitcom about the refugee who comes to the UK? Yes this is the worst thing about dubious. I know exactly what you mean. Terry Jones in In the Monty Python thing I'm a I've I don't know put a follow him on twitter and he's a lovely guy I've got to his name by the Rufus Jones Rufus I'm not sure it's Rufus Jones. Reading this is a bad tangent. I apologize but anyway. That was very good. Whoever reads that It's a fairly recent one and is brilliant that clockwork orange one What is your favorite audio book? Ever that you just wished it wouldn't end I tell you I really love Glynis Autobiography is short. Story was a pretty good defensively baton. The second moved the short stories. But it's good hair and read that. But his autobiography is so good. I think I think it's sort of. He stopped doing everything. Twitch like a fucking idiot would like to talk in the bedroom. Play Video Games. What kind of print would do that But but his it's sort of so it's a voice you don't use the hair in books and he so talented as a writer thing but it's feels like catcher in the rye or some just fails some of and some of. It's all about programming computers and stuff which is more boring but it's his story of or a novelist. I should say rather but his story of of going through nearly killing himself and getting being a massive drinker and stuff that and it's just the chapter about having a Jackie late in for the first time after having a lot of trouble. Jack Lighting is Larry allows laughing and crying like poetry so I could have. I could've listened to let me talk about his life a lot lot longer. Which is sort of weird choice but I heard about it on Esta and I I bought it off the back of that but then I was still writing my book at the time and so I started listening to and I thought I can't listen to this because it's too good and it's GonNa just depress me so I stopped listening to it but now I'm going to I'm going to go back to neither. That mine is finished low. It still might be a bit depressing. Anyway it's a different thing. He's had a colorful life. He's had a totally different background. He different life to you. Go to Westminster while they go. Yeah exactly is a different is it? You had a different upbringing. But even that's but I think that I'd be interested in a if you're covering that in your book. I think that's very interesting. I think Westminster's quite interesting education establishment. But I think to hear a that doesn't happen. The live shows to hit like a normal person that you can identify with talking about experience because got into public. School is no. It's not your choice. What what I think is interesting about. Is People Judge People going to public school? I'm rightly in some cases. It's I can understand why they're upset. But it's never the Don't choose to do that as a young person. Yeah that's the choice if someone else's made for your life and so to judge someone solely by that I think is weird but also it feels like Westminster's quiet and the interest when I've been around it. It seems an and you. Adam and Louis through will came so you enjoy when I've done the thing I've done the thing they do and Louis through Oh came mouth that your role valley balanced and normal people. Yes it is it slightly different one. Westminster is it is it. Is it slightly. You know it's not eaten as voice seeming like a slightly different type of. I think we all thought that it was Yeah we we used to take the piss out of the kind of Etonians and we thought of them as public schoolboys. We didn't think of ourselves as public school. We thought we were normal. And you know because we lived in London and you couldn't really get away with you right in the center of London so when whenever you went out you couldn't get away with acting like kind of freaky off no But then I look back at videos of myself from around then and and we were freaky toffs kind of but we just thought we were a bit cool and we thought that people who went to Eton well we colder E tone he Really Great and we talk about those people as if we weren't like that ourselves and we were kind of like that a bit but no I suppose no full-on we were embarrassed about it. We will self conscious. I think that was the thing being in London. That was just you self conscious more quickly. So that was a lot of people at Westminster who embarrassed about being for school and Which is sort of understandable. But it's also a little bit of a shame because it wasn't amazing place in lot of ways you know you go to press in Westminster Abbey every other morning Leno that pot. I love that part of London. I Love Westminster Abbey Been Around Westminster school to come on doing other things. Didn't chatting things or whatever and it does that does seem to be a nice feeling a becoming. That would be a nice place to school see. It does Seem Cooler. And Yeah Yeah being right in your opposite. The houses of Parliament Opposite Westminster Abbey. It's Kinda crazy. Yeah it is I mean is the they in every sense. The the privilege of being there is of the scale but No it's it's I do right about that and I do write about. Sit of feeling slightly conflicted about it and wondering why it was that my dad thought it was so important that he sent his children to private schools because it ended up ruining him financially. You know and His life was made miserable by that for a very long time and I just thought was really was a good trade off. You know like lots of people. Don't go to private. And they they do fine anyway so yeah I mean the limits life is very different. Your Life. It's it's sort of again again. I don't know that's it. It's so different than most people's lives very different the my life even though I went to. I suppose a mess of Public School people at University as a result getting talks with but it was had a taste of it but it's it is you know it's interesting to say books written by people who have had unusual lights tonight life that you don't necessarily coveralls which may be as public school as much. Maybe there's a bit more Public School. Memos going on there are groping glass. But I think there's I think there's the right person covering I think is the is the interesting thing about now. Let's talk a little bit about Because we've been chatting away navy nearly dumb you a fantastic go from strength to strength and absolutely. I mean I've got people like you of my podcast but you've got like proper people in your podcast until able he's got like Billy Connolly's got to be. The only one is superb if he will have listened to it but he's he's apart from Michael Palin who was absent. My number one person wanted on Billy Connolly's right up there and a thing did he was so good. Yeah he was great but he was really good. I mean I didn't really have to do very much. Just sat there and he was just. I was lucky that he was just in the right mood. But I was really quite nervous because I didn't know that much about him. I wasn't a fan when I was growing up. I just didn't I couldn't relate to him at all I was Monty Python Guy and Billy Connolly there was no reference points for me whatsoever. I didn't get it and so then I got the opportunity to talk to him because he was publishing his book of all his routines and bits and pieces. And I thought Oh. I don't know if I should because it'll probably annoy people that I don't know his stuff well often and it'll be a wasted opportunity and I don't know and also he'll realize that I don't really know what I'm talking about. And it'll piss him often he might be a bit tricky and there's too many variables but then in the end. I thought Oscar it. I'll just I'll give it a go. It's too big an opportunity to pass up and but then the night before I emailed a friend of mine who had worked with him and she said She said she wrote back quite a long list of things like things to say in things not to say. I was just expecting her to say. Oh you know like you know he likes to be. I don't tell jokes. He doesn't really like it when other people tell jokes. I'm just making these up. These these things she said but instead she wrote me like a long pretty specific list of things to avoid to say and then I was just thinking. Oh Shit and I emailed my producer. Shame and said Look Man. I think maybe I should pull out of this Because I didn't WANNA fuck it up. It's just that feels feels bad. Feels like I'm definitely gonNA fuck it up because one of the things she said knowing that I'm a man who likes wearing shorts was don't wear shorts. He hates people that wear shorts. He thinks it's pathetic for a grown man to wear shorts. And you know look at me. I mean I'm always I always enjoy it any opportunity to rock the creepy middle aged J. Look so and it was on the hottest day of last year as well. I like wearing shorts. They're comfortable. They're practical so that just put me in a really bad mood. Like why he he he fuck him. He doesn't like Ben who wear shorts. I'm not gonNA spend the afternoon. I'M GONNA travel all the way down to London interviewing this guy. I don't even know his stuff particularly and You know getting nasty looks because I'm wearing shorts because he anyway but actually the fact was that by that time I immersed myself in his stuff for weeks and I got it and it was like. Oh Yeah Okay I get it. And it was amazing and I just watched everything I could get my hands on and listen to all his albums on spotify and the language and the cadence of it and then the peculiarities of his own. Life and Watch interviews with him and found out and it was yeah it was really amazing but then then that email did really make me even more nervous because I thought this is a complicated guy and I don't WanNa fuck this up. Anyway it worked out. He was in a good news right and I got there. I was wearing my shorts. I was I got there early because I thought I'm going to change out of my shorts but he was fine and I said like Oh. I heard that you like men in shorts and he laughed and said he told you that it was well. What for the people listening to gossip. We like two weeks ago When's it coming out is coming out like about six weeks from we're from recordings so we only did. This year was still to last year and it was like a huge deal. So jealous of you getting getting you to beat. Sfu Job with Michael. I'm yours was I mean you can't wait to listen to yours but it was obviously your shows So different anyway. Because they're in in front of a live audience. My talk with Michael was very downbeat often. My Dad died and I was feeling very emotional and So it was. It was quiet kind of it. Wasn't somber. There was some funny bits but it. But but it certainly wasn't the kind of chat you would have in front of an audience. How does it was good? I mean I was so in all not saying he's absolutely. I number one person in the world but sending us as as a as a performer and writer. He's just everything he was so nice. They think regretting like I wish I'd I didn't really ask any questions on stage. You didn't suck his own car. I did ask that I wish had asked him some more because back we did some. We like backstage as you know. And he basically improvise asked him a question if your if your monthly bad jurists worth watching this one. He improvised basically a whole new. To life of Brian. Grow Up King. Herod the provide. He improvised the Senate. We never did that and then did embrace the improvised the whole that they might if done in life of Brian and I think just because I want there was so much to cover with him and I wanted to try and get as much like the I just and it was. It was great right. He was he was in my but I just saw. I think maybe I should have been is always that difficult thing with my poker is working out. That line of how respectable had the responsibility? Frozen like frozen hype. You're still there and the The of I on frozen working at how rude you have on about his working out the how rude you can be to people in whether you can get a sounded we've richly GROP. Who IS STILL? Don't quite understand why he doesn't he or is people do not want to go out. I wonder was I. I didn't I didn't go on enough about his major triumphs. He seemed to be enjoying it but I was much more. His took them his my theory about why he didn't want to go out because I think he'd been on a massive publicity push because he was in that film What's it called again Can you ever forgive me? Forgive me which is Great. And he's great and he was nominated for an Oscar and it was all felt right and he was going for it and he was doing lows publicity and then he didn't win and then he just went off the map and I don't know if the timing is right for might have been something about that. He doesn't see the same week. It was meant to go out. Think go around the time. They pulled it where he'd been revealed. Something about Julianne Moore who is meant to been in that film to give with And so I think they will worried he would. He might be saying stuff that affected his cash. The well that's interesting is that I mean I'm just guessing because honestly top three Po costs. I was avalon. Everyone I've done. He was brilliant. It was very funny. I was cheeky to him but I felt it. He appreciates the worked with the I think but maybe if I just even done five minutes an I'll you what robot when you've done this and you've done. That must've been amazing. I think he would've made baby done anyway. So I think made with Michael Palin. I kind of wish 'cause he's so respect him so much but he's still he's not like he's not a minute is not rude is not much money. You couldn't ask you have a century coke or something like that would be a wrong big Iran I've every sperm lake but yeah it was great. It was interesting and he talks a little bit. You know told by Terry Jones a little bit but not too much Push too much and they wanna make them cry or make myself cry. Although he's interesting talked about Having modern quite fallen out with him but there were such good friends but when ripping on came out 'cause the BBC trying to push as his thing as Michael payments they didn't really want to pipelines involve so Terry's rolling. It was kind of you know even though we obviously right together kind of a little bit underplayed and I think Terry Jones was bit put out by it so he did talk about that. Which is again quite interesting. Because I'm fascinated by that double-act dynamic and how that works and how you if you remain friends over the don't remain. Friends will be friends. But with that with those two I mean certain that all the tributes that Michael did to Terry is just an him going to Sam is house. Yeah go take him to the pub every week even though he didn't know he was. Yeah now so moving and beautiful this beautiful male friendship. That's quite a rat thing think. Yeah that's right. Well Louis I sent Louis. I'm just GonNa make it myself again. Fessel yeah because I watched Michael Palin talking about Terry Jones and Choking up on the news and it was yeah and I. I'm sure like a lot of people just started crying myself watching that clip But Yeah I sent my book to Louis through to read because he's in it as well and But Louis described it as a kind of love story But you know it's the story of my affair. My Love Affair With Joe from charting it from the beginning and I do sort of right about explicitly not explicitly in a sexual sense. Well other is some very hot sex with joe the is described but yeah it just you know that thing when you look back on it you you think like. Oh Gosh yeah it is. It is a love affair really just without the sex and everything about is the same. You know the the feeling of excitement you get when you're going to see the person the feeling of missing them so much when they're not around and imagining the kind of things that they would say if they were there instead of laughing at the things that you imagine them saying you can hear their voice so clearly all that sort of stuff as well as admiring them and being inspired by them and anyway so I hope I've I've kind of done some justice to that and then at the end there's a few sit of moments as well when when I don't really touch on negative stuff too much. But there's a couple of moments when I just thought. Whoa what's going on here where where felt like our friendship was kind of dissolving or whatever towards the end of the eighties and I never really resolved any of those things but then I did a a bonus podcast thing with Joe just the other day Remote thing it's going to go at the end of the audiobook and he he picks out various bits and pieces from the book and he picked out one of the things I wrote about in and we talked about that. We should have resolved it at the end of the book so that was quite satisfying coverage. Isn't it is. It's that element of marriage to and like some marriages as we are very hamernicks than some a based And I think that's what I think in Monty Python. I talked to him about. I think the hopped Python John cleese and Terry Jones kind of not really getting on that. Well I think I think Terry Jones and John cleese rubbed each other up so much that that was the grit in the Oyster. That created the poll. You know I think that they came from a different angle and had such different talents. I mean they were Monday. Pipe in an amazing group of people and Terry is is saw the harvey again the takes realizing United Looking back at it to kind of realize that as much but I think without him antagonizing junk please I think it probably an and vice versa identical. Be Quite what it was so I think you know with me and stay on it and it was always You know the competitiveness was more like that competitive thing that you can get into marriage. Where your way you're more fighting and then that leads to fantastic sex or comedy hopefully. So yeah but you know. There's loads of things that you know. I saw. There's an incident. I've never talked about it. I'm never told the steel about and this came very early on when we sort of that university I was the I've been so affected as the main performer. I done the Oxford View Written it and there was a software thing with that and then when we came when we came into the real world was much better to stand up and I wasn't and he was saying that performer is the is kind of flipped around. And I really want to act. And he got this He offered this pie in there like a student show filming and let it was like nothing. It wasn't important but it was a short Ville a which a won't happen but ended up with him to a guy's house and then they ended up on this date together and they dance together. I love that funding. How come when it was called. John Maloney didn't answer told us to John me about it and I kinda thought the Tony Thought. It's kind of weird. The there that he's an actor Nisus. It would seem obvious to sell off of me the other part but I don't think that's you know wage golfer that leading. Obviously I wasn't you didn't for it so and then it was in Norwich. Actually if we're doing together and they have the after show they had filmed at Norwich and then there was a party with all the up together and One of the crew said to me so you didn't fancy during the filming and and but I A and this is why this is an interesting story because obviously he'd but we'd both been often it. I never got told that I've been offered. She said I'll do it but not if he's doing. Obviously this is very early on but I also just went. In that moment I went. Again the infancy. It's SORTA like I didn't even an I never told you that I I knew if done that. But that such you know. He didn't want to be an actor and I really wanted to go back. And that was a really weird little power play going on between the two but the reason I tell the story is I think it says as much about me as it does about him because I was in I was in such a kind of low status position by then the I didn't even go. What now fuck. Why did you just saw and I never ever even told him that I knew that happened. I never spoke downriver. I'm you know I could have said to the guy yet. I didn't know you know no one told me about it. But that's kind of interesting isn't and I'm sure he could come up with some stories where I did something similar to him. I doubt I'm a very nice guy but I would just been thinking about and such it just sums up that the weirdness at the heart of our relationship even then you know so. Y- fascinates it fascinates. We were. We were friends. I think working together made it harder. Befriends than stopping working together made it easier to be friends. We friends but before you started working together. How many we worked. We met and then decide to work together but we if we certainly friend friendly to begin with but I think it was it. Was it all kind of came down to It was a win thing because I did the review and he didn't but it was the of you that got ready tumbled by all the STANDUP comedians in Edinburgh but had a terrible time in basically nearly stopped performing and he wasn't bothered because he wasn't in it and then he really got into stand up then so right. At the beginning of also professional relationship he was pushing motorway. Stand up comedy sketch comedy and felt resentful of all these people who bullish and he was siding with allies. People so immediately created this this divide between us. That was a little bit way it but I think again. I think it's I think that was what made it work as well as a as a double but yeah I mean. I'm glad we ended at the right time. And I would never WANNA go back to it. Which is I think is different than say you and you and Joe who's still so seem happily to get together when you do get together. Yeah Yeah No. It's good now I really like. There's not a shred of Envy or bitterness left. I really can say that with my hand on my heart. Which side is it but But yeah definitely was for a while. Wrote big thing in for the book all about when we when we did the toy. Movie of Toy Tannock. Do you remember. We used to do parodies of TV shows and films in our in our TV show with with little stuff toys and stuff and off when we did. The I think it was the second series. I was nineteen Nineteen Ninety eight or something like that and To series of our show had gone out and we were out in california staying with the people that produced our show that ran the production company fenton and randy they were called and we kind of on top of the world and it was like we made it. We had two shows that down ready well gone. They've gotten pretty good ratings for what it was. We got some good reviews. It was like yes with kings are fucking world and so we went out to california and they they hide the skiing lodge out. In Mammoth Mountain. We went skiing and we were out on a hot. We were in a hot tub me and joe out on a On a balcony overlooking the mountains. And we're just like this is it. We're the kings. I was drinking a beer and I think joe was smoking a Doobie and we would just sit Hollywood moment of success and I was playing around with my mtpa bottle. It was bobbing around in the hot tub. And I said something like iceberg right ahead and I notice and Joe said Yeah we should. We should do titanic as toy movie and I was like I don't know about that and soon as he said it. I just thought I'll fucking hell he's going to do he's GonNa do. Titanic and it's GonNa be really good and it's obviously it's going to be brilliant because everyone's seen fucking titanic and he's going to do a really good job and sure enough. The absolutely went to town because the thing the thing that we never admitted really was that we used to divvy apple the toy movies. We always said we did everything absolutely together because we wanted to maintain a- coherent image. You know just like yet we share. We share all the responsibilities. But actually for practical reasons puttering the else we divided everything up so it was fit really competitive like who's done the best toy movie and stuff and it was generally joe the best ones. I can see now and So he went completely to town on this. Fucking titanic thing and I went on holiday just met my beautiful wife. Although we weren't married point and we went away for a first foreign holiday and when we got back I went into the studio and and the entire studio was filled with this foot fucking cardboard model of Titanic Joe it may real called Bordon straws and and it was completely amazing and I I I thought this is bad and I was gonNA. I mean I really had to stop myself from breaking in their nine. Just burning it and Basically I had buckled to do with Totani I did the voices on like we came together and do voices and things like that and then it was just everyone loved. Titanic came out and Channel Four. They did film for. They launched the film for Channel and on the launch night. They showed us it of ten minute. Cut of Toy Tanic and everyone was guy. Oh it's so amazing. It's so brilliant and every time someone said I would just go back no for. Yes really good. Isn't it. Yes and and then but we were saying you know to everyone. We do everything together. We do everything together. And then timeout rang up just before the film for launch night and they said Oh we just wanted to just chat with you quickly about the titanic thing and so I was thinking while you're phoning the wrong guy but I can't say that because we're supposed to. I can't say oh you need to talk to Joe. He did that one so I had to. Just sit started and say Oh yeah what do you want to know and I was very. I thought I was very careful to say we about everything we did this and we did that. And you know and trying to justice to what Joe had done it in any anyway obviously and I must have slipped through And the next light. When when time out came came out that week I got a phone call and it was joe and he was apoplectic and he just said what the fuck of you said now as I want what do you ought about. And he said You're talking you basically made out that you did toy. Sonic and the thing I mean. It's so matt. Just incredibly ludicrous and pathetic but the but the tensions and the lack of perspective at the time is just so overwhelming anyway. I wrote a big story about it but then it was one of the pieces that I eventually just chopped out of the book. And it's less about all that stuff and it's more about the kind of Fun Times. Yeah yeah which there there were as well but but yeah but it's it's it's fascinating could as it's the in the way anti-french knows way if you meet someone especially when you're you're very young you met. Joe Of safer I nothing was also which I read today in an interview with Joe is that you basically got him into the first TV thing that you you you've been offered everything in got joe into it so is that there's always that weird dynamic where someone has to be great gossipy grateful for the opportunity which he obviously still is but then you know then you yes you start off forever right. Let's start out as the senior partner. I got various points you wanted to say. Can I just remember how this lack? I WanNa find me from special. I'm the special guy. No in that voice and then And then you know. The the dynamic is constantly shifting and ought so exhausting. I wish I could go back. That was the overwhelming thing writing. The book was at certain points just wishing more than anything I could go back in and just say mate calmed down and don't do that but then the the way we took things so seriously and we were so important. We'd argue over whether at will though is in the sentence for day I was nuts but that level that you need that level sending that stage I think you need that level of passion and self belief you know we were so this weird mixture of insecurity and Atta confidence. You know I mean. It's it's such a weird. Japan comedian to to believe that you deserve any of those things that either side of the ninety S. You know as well as going home and know no know. I'm not I'm terrible everything so you know. It's it's a bizarre thing. And it's very difficult to navigate those waters in a special very well. And and and things you know and you'll annual motivations what you want to have it. Changes is sought to me. It's just amazing. Those double acts the keep working forever and the haven't There's ones that together and don't like each other but it's still force which is interesting because I saw successful becomes. I'm as a mess those like Terri and Michael and adorned Jennifer. I guess and who would just like accidentally best friends. Yeah Bob and people find it very interesting and it's and episode me because I think it's it's like being brothers. It's like being a lovers is like being best friends who have for anyone is. It's still matches up. I think can it's understandable ratio to anyone because everyone has gotten relationship with someone in their life is someone they work with someone who's their someone they had. A relationship with a word relationship will roster. Yeah yeah but I know and I think I in the ninety s and early two thousands. The women I chose who chose may identify. You know. We're always inappropriate and always but nearly always wrong and bullying and you know and took advantage of being nice And I wasn't always nice either but you know it was. I would always have a certain type. So had your making certain choices in your life about who your interacted with and I think with women Kinda went. I'M NOT GONNA I'M NOT GONNA have go into relationship with someone like that and I think that's I think that's what you realize. You realize that as as we go anyway to we've taken a lot of your time. That is my wife texting your wife. My wife hasn't texted me told me it's over. I mean have you finished. We said we would finish eating there. We go so anyway. I really hope I can get you in and Adam. No Joe the other one now. We were really looking forward to it. So yeah let's make it happen. Yeah so we'll do it again at some other time out. See how he feels about this. And I'll be talking to me. After this. After I doubted toy tannock story ramble broke out in September. The book is at a physical book is out in September. The idea is for the audio book to come out in a few weeks. I suggest my publishes and said light. Well why don't we just put the Audio Book Out Now? I mean and so that's what we're GonNa do think great good and the back continuing what fantastic guests that. I'LL BE JEALOUS OF COMING UP. Not let's say Well it's all scrambled now. Because of the thing you can do them. I'm going to do it. Works for you remotely and this is what very well I think remotely you and it's so different though. It's so different to being a really need to be in a room. The only one I ever did remotely before this whole crisis was bill. Hader and I like I and it was good but I felt as if it would have been a lot better if I'd been in a room with him. You know what I mean. So it's difficult but and so that's why I'm leaning on old friends and people. I already have a relationship with repeat guests. So Joe will probably do one If he's still talked me off to this and Louis through I hope and Tash Dmitri you and past podcast guests who who I already know. I'm going to terrific. Well thank you so much for being my first remotes guest expanding good to see every loved. Say you take care and Let's hope we both get through this alive. One of statistically one of us is GONNA die. I mean I've got young kids. I hope it's you just young kids. Yeah look my books finished. I've had a great run. Thanks very much bye. Ladies and gentlemen Adam Buxton array thanks. We're GONNA go thanks. Everyone is listened to watch them. Subscribed subscribe and do every like fuck off. Goodbye thank you bye-bye as to us with me tearing my guest Adam Buxton. Thank you to past playing this music. Even lockdown about past apartment problem. My right must be regretting that name. Now I am indebted and would like to thank come Adam on the four thing I against everyone. Is Castor resume for helping do everyone at twitch for giving us the chance to today's and especially of course the Chris Evans not that one who is doing the whole me. All the behind the scenes of setting this up to seventy being now the super producer of the show so I am very indebted to him. Our executive producer of this show was wonderful. Martin defeat we called him months in details on the on the set all into the deeds. Say about we music upon I also called him house mountains while others including this is a skype potato though buster strike dot com production. WanNa strike dot com slash bagism Jason. Become monthly budget help helpless. Why some funds to keep making up costs and get cavalcade of lovely Extras Self Self Shiny Badejo to the membership. God practice page interviews. All right my friends I will see you on the other side of this terrible trustee.

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56: Jim Buxton

Trial Lawyer Talk

34:05 min | 1 year ago

56: Jim Buxton

"Welcome to trial or talk. I'm Scott Gloves Ski. And I'm your host for this podcast. Her we speak with some of the best trial lawyers in the United States. We simply have great lawyers to great stories from cases that had a profound impact on them. So let's get started. I'm very glad to be hang out with my pal Jim Buxton. Who's zoo. Wonderful lawyer wonderful. Human being super talented guy and Jim Practices in Oklahoma. It has criminal and civil work. Jim Thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me. Can you share with us? A STORY OF A case. That had a profound impact on you. Stephanie. Tj Chart and. He came to me about four years ago with the problem. That I don't know how I would have dealt with had happened to me. They're young couple in their homes have been destroyed and nobody would help him and I believe they've been to a couple of lawyers before me and they were rejected. Said your case in good enough for whatever it was and I remember developing this relationship with them I came in. I heard their story. As we grew closer dislike any relationship. I mean like ours. Ours didn't start off as friends. Hell we didn't know each other but over the course of time Stephanie. Tj Week would meet and talk and develop this relationship. And I'd go to their home. What was left of it? Their houses destroyed by sewage from the city government and I said in it with them and smell it and feel it what it felt like we developed this real close personal bond which is good but by the time we get to trial. She looks at me when we're waiting for the jury and she says I don't care anymore and at first I was just like I was hit. Like what do you? What do you mean you don't care about the outcome? Reverse roles with her she says Jim. What do you do for us? You are her yes. She said Jim what she did for us. Who Cares what the outcome is? It doesn't matter. All we wanted was somebody to hear us and fight for us and getting out of her role. Cheap broke down in tears. She and her husband were from Oklahoma. And it's hard for Oklahomans to ask for help in my opinion. We're just do it ourselves. Calm people get through any kind of situation. We don't need anybody back in our asses up and to realize that all my clients want is to be heard and for somebody to five forum had a profound impact on me and I was like okay. So we're waiting in the verdict comes back and it's a really good vert and so everything's happy with the story ends well and then the appeal comes and the case part of it gets where we have to go. Try IT so I'm recommending that we probably should try and settle the case and she has gym. Do whatever you want. I told you already did already satisfied my needs. And so that's probably the closest connection that I've ever had with the client in that story of them in the trust that they had me and just believing in me because I heard them was just. It was profound so take us more into the details of the story of the story. The case where the story of Yes. Well we do a budget government cases where I see the government for failing to maintain their utilities and literally When things go wrong with the sewage line it blows it like a fire hydrant. Firehose into your house like imagine a fire hose of sewer with turds and every unimaginable thing. You could imagine you're in the sewage system being blown all through your home. And who do you have to sue the government? And so maybe what I think is how they arrived at me in feel the way they felt about me was because if I reverse roles within is the rejection right not only the betrayal of what. The city did by pumping their house full of raw sewage in not cleaning it up but then turn in a tort claim. We'll take care of you in go. When you fill out the form dislike. They want and then they never hear anything again. Because the statute says you know it's deigned denied if you don't hear from them said then they wait and they wait and they wait then. They eventually called a lawyer in most lawyers won't handle cases against the government at least going on the offense against them so they get rejected rejected until they can find us and we take every case. But we try to you know. Help the ones that we can. And so just just so profound in Wisconsin. I don't know if I'm answering your question the right way. But that's how my connection was just often my. I is on a prize. That's not the same this sense of rejection in needing to be heard. Where does that come from in Jim? Buxton's life lots of places oftentimes feel that I'm not hurt and it. It came from being the youngest in my family. I think from just the world we live and work. Nobody takes the time to look somebody in the eye and just listen to him and connect. I yearn for that. I don't know about you but I yearn for a legitimate connection. I don't know if it's so much as being heard like I have a lot of problems with listening. Don't listen because there's so much going on in the world so much chatter in chaos and I think it's just so refreshing when you just have just a connection and I that's what I mean by being heard like I can. I can hear you right now. And you haven't said a word so behind that there seems to be a loneliness being a trial lawyer is lonely. Trial lawyer are you lonely. Absolutely yeah I feel alone. Oftentimes when I'm surrounded by other lawyers oftentimes not. I don't feel hurt and if I looked really deep inside. Is that mine need semi ego. Probably do you think lawyers ever alone in the courtroom? Yeah do you I. The bigger question is deloitte ever not feel alone in the courtroom. I was trying to think I I was saying this the other day to somebody I said. I think this is how I know that I'm supposed to be a trial lawyer every time I'd do it. I mean I'm nervous. I'm scared all these feelings and all this stuff comes up but if you keep doing it over and over again those things don't stop. I would think surely by now this would be over with but it's not Buni say alone in the courtroom. What I think about is being in the sound dumb saying you're totally in the zone. You're alone and you hear about it like it. Maybe it's because there's no cell phones in court. There's nobody able to get a hold of you right unless you reach out to them. There's a calm quiet to that chaos for me. I feel alone but I also feel if I'm really dialed in that. That aloneness makes me or allows me the gift to make a connection with each person right. And that's something I try and do every time. Well if we think about jurors who live in the same world that we do with the same facebook social media in bombardment of information who must also feel alone. It's a great point. So how does that relate to connection with jurors well for me if I'm truly alone or feeling that way which or scared or confused which I am every time. I'm not too me long time to call myself a trial lawyer. An intake tried enough cases. Like a told you a theory and I'd be through the nervousness. The awkwardness descru- ups. By now in I'm not but that's what connects me with tears. I mean if I reverse roles with a juror. I'm like this is insane. I'm being put around like cattle. I'm having to make friends immediately. I'm all these people. It's just an whole awkward process. Where else other than your home? Perhaps does a man walk in and a rope and tell you what to do. I mean it's a weird situation. I mean we don't have somebody here in the corner typing down everything that we're saying when I was a lady with. What looks like a box of Kleenex. Pulling random. Names out of it you know. It's a unique environment in and of itself. That while being alone is scary. You should welcome that aloneness. Now that I'm thinking about it you should welcome that aloneness because it gives you a chance to connect and if we assume that the jurors I just liked like US longing for real connection and to be heard and to be listened to It sounds like there may be some opportunity there. Think about this and I don't know if you do this in your trials but if you're really listening to a juror you will automatically connect what they need with what she already having your case right. So the cases. I look back on where I've had some really good results where I'm like taking pictures. Not only with my clients with the jurors because we are a group and we are so proud of the justice that we've done it's amazing and it's because you just sit there and are in the moment with them you have to feel connected to somebody if they're listening to you in there. Give me what you need. Happy not how can I mean? It's Kinda hard to be disagreeable with somebody like that. Wouldn't you think absolutely? Why don't we talk about the concept of Struggle in the courtroom? Because we've all been there. Where finally a topic that? I can talk about competence and myself as well as an experience where you're in that moment in the judge says something and you freeze. You don't know you don't know what to do next. Yeah when the panic sheer panic sets in such as the in maybe you could see me getting triggered effort this from I can. I can still see it them. Standing there in my closing argument with these papers rolled up in my hands. Like I'm about to beat a dog with them. I'm so just out of my mind. Not Scott I'd like to tell you. This was ten years ago but it wasn't. It was two years ago and I don't even know what it was particularly that I said that caused the huge objection in the judge to not only sustain the objection but to stand up in go. Mr Buxton in this is in my second closing like a minute or two from being out of there and I froze and went. Okay this is familiar territory for you dialed in like the training. We received here at the trial lawyers. College you know when all Hell's breaking loose near a panic dot com and I just turned. I'M NOT IN THE MILITARY. I did a military type. Turn look to the judge. Looked HIM DEAD IN. The eyes bowed to him and apologized. Gave him the power and the respect that he needed and said. I'm sorry man. I'm sorry I'll straighten up. He said Okay and I just turned around and we got back to it and I laughed and I was humiliated will actually as in the case that was just telling you about TJ. Stephanie Charney you know and I was humiliated because I thought I blew it right there at the end I could have but I think the way that I handled. It saved me well. Let's talk about that for a minute because lots of lawyers think when you're in that moment of struggle and you don't know what to do and everybody in the courtroom concede that you're scared. How does that impact the jury? Well they lose confidence in you right if you try. Hide the struggle. Then you're hot something from them okay. And I don't know about you but I don't have very good connections or I don't get very good results with people. Think I'm bullshit them. You will SPEC UP. Let's assume you don't hide it in other words you're stuck and you're in astrology. You don't know what the heck to do in your standing there and you sell them the struggle and they're like is this guy even longer practice or what are the opposite. You know that by having that struggle you are connecting with the jury. Because you're real right and as long as you're not trying to be asked them but you're being open and honest and transparent yes does that. It's it's something I think that does connect you to juror right but at the at the same time and I think that's the training does with the trial lawyers college this about the trial lawyers college but I think that you must have to have a huge ego. If you think that you're not going to struggle in a jury trial okay so I think it all starts with being self aware. What happens to Jim Buxton when he struggles? Lotta time if my struggle gets out of control. It turns into frustration and anger and frustration and anger are not emotions that jurors respond to when they're not ready for them right however if he stay calm and in that frustration or that struggle turns into something. Beautiful it has the opposite effect. It just creates so much respect for you as a person it gives you leadership qualities because you're not panicking in the moment right. I mean I think seeing the struggles one thing seeing how you respond to it is another right so there's all these little opportunities and I think for a trial lawyer most of it. The juries make their decisions on. Aren't the words that are being said or the facts that are being spoken? It's as simple as you're walking into a high school that you'd never been been to and you see all these people if I'm reversing roles with the juror. Which lunch table. Not GonNa sit at now. There's only two choices in there was tabled. You want your journey to sit at well. Sure thank maybe WanNa sit with the smart guy that knows everything the cool guy or is it. Somebody that has mutual respect from everybody from the judge to the janitor treats everybody equally the same learns about them in Dire. What do you need? What is well you know? When's the last time you're a trauma juror? Didn't say to you. I don't want to be here. We better be here for good reason. And I'm ready to get out of here okay. Well if you're struggling in there and it takes you three four hours per witness that struggles not endearing to the jury the L. Let's talk for a moment about control because when I'm preparing for trial in starting trial I tend to put a tremendous amount of pressure on myself worried about all the things that could go wrong in. The reality is in a trial. Were very little in control. Yeah you have control of nothing. You have control of what evidence you want to try to get in right as applying to slow your. What else do you let people go one on your jury and says? I Want I want. Somebody's GonNa vote for me right off the bat preferably without even having asked me a question but I'm not going to get that right so for me. What I do is on the big believer in energy and power of intention in. You can create problems. If you're thinking about problems you can create solutions just like you're thinking about solutions or feeling solutions every trial lawyer. Tate's it's got to be able to think on your feet right. You got to be able to deal in the calm the chaos and that the question. I guess I lost yet. No absolutely I mean. One thing that I found helpful is acknowledging that there's so much that is out of my control in the courtroom the in a way it enables me to be more comfortable without putting all the pressure on myself when I think about in a control. Is that what we're saying in the courtroom? What are you trying to control the ask yourself? What is what am I trying to do you? Can't you can't control a lot of what goes on in a courtroom right like you can get rid of a lot of objections by being intentional purposeful. You're that way you're very intentional. Very purposeful I bet that serves you well in court. You can eliminate a lot of problems but then once that jury sworn in its group time even before that right. Because they're always looking. Even you know everybody might jurisdiction. They call one hundred people in the call. Eighteen out of the box or twenty something out of the box and then if one gets kicked off and they bring one from the audience back in everybody's always watching judging all the time well for me. I'm like well. Let's just let bill. Let's just build a group and then I'll have to do is follow me at the end. So the pressure we put on ourselves as trial. Lawyers is ridiculous in. It's one of it's a lead vest in. It's like wearing lead best when you're going swimming. The pressure the expectations all of that. It's crippling for me at least be try to be open in understand that A. We're just trying to get through this all of us and I wouldn't be here if I didn't think you were going to come. Sit with me at my table. Let me show you what all we got going on over here and look every time. If you're listening you know you've met every person there is out there you've met him you know because we're all the same we're all the same. You know what they need. If you get out of your head you give it to in win. Our role is that of service. Is that of caring for the client and caring for the jury and it's not about us. It's about who truly is about is were at least for me. My creativity and spontaneity can flourish but with the anxiety. Think your analogy that it's a lead vestige is just perfect it is you gotta give out of your head. I use this example. Are you married? I am dear member when you met your wife. I do Where is the checklist that you had from that night? I did not have a checklist. You didn't have gotta ask her her name. I gotTa know X Y and Z in interview. Or did you just go? You're awestruck I imagine I kind of had some animal instincts going on at the moment right you had tons of feelings. I imagine that if you were triggered one way it could lead to different direction if you pre thinking things but I imagine if it was like I am with my wife. I was just in the moment any great relationship that I've developed. I didn't need a script do it. Because I'm in it with you and it's like moments during these this conversation. You know sure. It'd be great to have a list of topics and all of that but to have a great conversation to really connect with somebody all the elements will get matt. You'll meet their needs in. The needs are unique in every interaction in every relationship in every circumstance. Right so when you say roles. That's huge right. What's your role? Trial lawyer can figure out that question. You're going to be a hell of a good trial lawyer because you got to look at. What's my role well standing in front of a jury? My role is to be the leader in this courtroom right when I got home my roles to be a father a husband when I go to the office. My role is to be a businessman. Counselor you know all these different hats that we wear if you can know your role. What's your role in? This group? Could be aware of yourself then. You can have awareness for the other and if you look back on great relationships great connections you make with people you look back and you'll see that rolls and understanding your role in. It just occurred to me that one of the beauties of this podcast is the phenomenal trial lawyers. That I talk with like yourself. All talk about what's meaningful in life in very little of it has to do with lawyering it. It's all who are and of course. It's translated into luring because they're real people in the courtroom but they're showing the feelings the caring the loving the vulnerability in translating that just from from their hood to the to the person hoods of the jurors and their clients right. Like just when I talked to you like. Do you remember the first time you met you? Your your face lit up sting it again right now because it takes you to place your just your energy changes because that emotion right Mike Trainer told me and I never thought of it. Emotions are nothing more than energy in motion right self-awareness roles energy. I think that is what satisfies you in life if you configure if you can match somebody's energy that's a connection. I I used to think that life was about certain things about acquiring status money things you know all the stuff. That's why I wanted to be a lawyer but for me. Being a trial lawyer is about being in the places where you can share experiences with people and connections right true connections. And then you're like well. Let me tell you about this time this experience for me to get to talk about an experience with my wife or my kids or with my dad. Just changing my voice right now you know gives me a certain gift when I get to be able to tap into those emotions right in people all have him. They'll see me they'll go in. They'll tap into an emotion. Just because I am. We're culmination of right. Now I am right now a culmination of the experiences that I've had with others including you. It makes me who I am right now now. I'm sure I could be somebody different tomorrow and on down the road and I hope I am. I will get better and better but doesn't from personal connections. I can't get those with the TV or a airplane or whatever bullshit. It is at the end of the day when when it's all over I want to think that my life had great experiences and so far all these experiences have involved people real human beings that have made connections with. That's what makes the experience great and that's why I love being a trial lawyer. Make that connection with my client. It makes it rewarding. It makes it satisfying on an energy soul level. You've shared a lot of wisdom with us. This has been truly pleasure in getting to sit across the table and look into your eyes and feel your wisdom in your carry. It's been a real treat to Jim. Thanks for having me. I really appreciated and I admire you a lot and I'll tell you why you're committed you're committed hundred percent every time makes me commit a matcher energy. Thank you for those kind words in. It's a function of us. It's a function of of the group and our connection. And that's the lesson that you shared with us. One of the great lessons you've shared with us today and I'm really proud that our listeners have learned about connection from you in this beautiful way. I- absurdity thanks for having me. Thank you all right Thank you for joining us today. For trial or talk. If you like the show I really appreciate if you could give us a good review on itunes. And I'd love to get your feedback you can reach me at. Www DOT SCOTT GLOVICZKI DOT com. That's Scott G. L. O. V. S. K. Y. DOT COM. And I love to hear your feedback. You can also check out the book that I published called. Fighting Health Insurance denials a primer for lawyers. That's on Amazon. Put The book together based on twenty years of suing health insurance companies for medical care to people and it provides a general outline of how to fight health insurance denials. Have a great week. And we'll talk to you in the next episode.

Jim Jim Buxton Stephanie Charney United States Oklahoma Scott G. L. O. V. S. K. Jim Practices Ski I Wisconsin Dire facebook Buni Kleenex DOT Amazon Tate matt
EP.89 - DAVID MITCHELL

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:18:25 hr | 1 year ago

EP.89 - DAVID MITCHELL

"Mall. Gye mud cost been now, you out that podcast out and started listening. I took my and bounce up human. Then I recalled all while. I his Buxton. I want you to joy, that's the. Hey, hey, how you doing podcasts? Adam Buxton here. How are you? Nice to be back with you again. Guess what I'm on a track walking by some recently ploughed fields out here in the east of England in the countryside of the county of Norfolk. I'm walking on a cold day in April twenty nineteen with my best dog friend and the world. Rosie. Hey, Rosie what come over here and say hi quickly? We'll have a good chat at the end of the podcast. But just come and say quick Hello to the podcast. Rosie coming. She's low pin. Common. Say hi, can you make some noise rose? Do like a war for something. Doug, patronized me. Sorry. I don't mean to patronize. But is there any way you could just prove that you're here on your adult? Do the noise you do when we go for a walk when I say that. Let's go for a walk you go. Oh, he's hit me. Why do the noise we're already on a walk? All right. Sorry. There you go. Coach shake off you go Joyo gambling. And we'll catch up at the end of the podcast. There's a lot to catch up about isn't there? Lot of important stuff is few live dates I want to share with you and details of appearances on other podcasts few recommendations for you. Oh and a a trail for. Another episode coming up in this run of the podcast, which you might want to do a little preparation for anyway, all that will be explained at the end. But right now, let me tell you a bit about put cost number eighty nine which features a conversational MandA with actor writer and British TV panel show king David Mitchell as I speak David is forty four. He is married with a young human child. Here's a graduate of Cambridge University. And that's where he met his comedy partner, Robert Webb David enroll have written and starred in number of TV and radio sketch shows together as Mitchell and Webb. And of course, they also starred in the channel four sitcom peep show written by Sam Bain and Jesse Armstrong which ran from two thousand three to twenty fifteen David's other acting roles include the part of William Shakespeare in. The BBC two sitcom upstart crow which started airing in twenty sixteen and was written by one of David's comedy heroes. Ben Elton, we talk a little bit about that in this conversation, which was recorded in November of last year twenty eighteen around the hundredth anniversary of the end of World War, One only say that because I refer to it a little bit in the conversation, and we talked about bad habits and how best to deal with them. Bad driving bad small talk at school gates, the technical challenges, filming peepshow, David's comedy influences and lots of other important modern stuff. I'll be back as I said at the end with most study waffle and news about some exciting podcast related events links to these and other related. Bits and pieces should be found in the description of this podcast. But right now here we go. Last weekend. Went to his brilliant thing at the postal museum in London where they're running a train is called the mail train. Yeah. And it used a system in the thirties with in the thirties to basically take posts from the different Depres around London underneath London postal so important then and there were loads of deliveries every day, and it was a major medium, and then it closed down in two thousand and four because you know, people find letters being Layton. Send any? Yeah. Exactly. So the few that get sent Mayes well, wait around and gridlock van. So they've turned into a museum as they will with our entire civilization piece by piece, but it's it's a brilliant thing to go to denigrate display and you ride on the train like the passes used to. But the parcels didn't know what it felt like because they went sentient. So I would recommend it. But also instinctively all this terrible. We used to have this thing for taking parcels around, and we used to have proper infrastructure, and we used to be great. And now everything's terrible. And then I thought, but actually no it's fine. There's an internet, and that's probably better than letters. Really? We shouldn't have stayed with letters deliberately. So I I have to tell myself change isn't always bad. No. It's good to be reminded of that. Especially these days, I think, but then people who do say actually things on so bad these days, then generally, sit of privileged white blokes. Save. So they can fuck. Tell you what the privilege, white blogs saying things are okay now, they need to learn from history is things were great for them. They've missed that glory days. Yeah. But you know, one hundred years ago things for a lot of people were not as good as they on. Yeah. Absolutely. It's very reassuring thing about history. Yeah. Oversee that could be thousands of nuclear weapons could explode into eighty five minutes time. Sure in which case what I'm about to say. We'll no longer apply, but still broadly speaking now with not a bad era to live in it's sort of almost anywhere because terrible things happened in the world at the moment. But that's a constant terrible. Things have always happened. And if you roll the dice, what's most either come up is oh, tell me what your fourth century infant, and you die in an hour's time. Oh, all your mountain Irish peasant, and you've dive exhaustion age of twenty one so sort of anything in Britain in two thousand eighteen statistically, the equivalent of a six what was the philosophy of a person growing up in the middle ages like compared to now when they knew that they were going to be lucky to make it to forty five. Yeah. What kind of goals e setting? No. I mean. Yeah. I think it depends on the person doesn't it? Very much depends on their role. You know, I'm assuming most like to be a king or notch Bishop. It may be that many. Medieval people were neither. I haven't looked into it. But yes, most people didn't have to have goals because they were released from any sense of self determination by the desperation to remain alive till the next half assed. So what a what a tremendous boon that much well down to worry about your career at all just worry about the turnips in a way. That sounds nice though, doesn't it? Well, if the turnips long everything's turnips. Yeah. And that's fine. Sure. That's great. I talked to your very good pun there. What the turn not sure I I wasn't happy with it. I wouldn't hate you to that was in any way planning Joyce drawing. Attention. And when you were young man, you used to dress up as those pokes archbishops is that right? Yeah. I've a lot of my childhood dressing up in basically, costumes, it were normal clothes either. Deputy it okay to turn yourself into some form of authority figure. Yes. And one of the things I was a lot was some sort of king was never an archbishop or pope. Okay. I was I was again, it didn't have a crown aware that kings only will grounds, you know, on ceremony locations. What form did the role playing take? Then can't really remember. I sat in a chair that I consider to be thrown. And I would have a sword. Did you have a haughty demeanor the deduct? Yes, very haughty demeanor. The costume. I was in my mind, essentially eighteenth century dress. So this the stockings that come out to the knee in kind of fr- coat. I was that sort of king. And I think I would have liked to have powdered week but wasn't available but mitre or something like that. No, only popes have might is. Big ships. They hopes have miters. I didn't I have. No, I'm just have swords in my world kings have civil I would use the soda sued of stick as well. I was an old king. I was drawn to the sort of glamour of elderly power. Wait is that attraction come from? I don't really know glamour of elderly power. It's not surprising that later in life. I've got all nostalgic about the way the postal service used. Through line by used to get in the winter. I used to get chapped hands wash my hands off to villa Lou. But I wouldn't know with dry them. And then they sort of get dry and wrinkly on the back, and I look at my hands. And I thought the old and I really liked that. So do you relish the prospect of growing old in some ways? No, no, I don't I think I liked the thought of the trappings of being elderly when I was a child wisdom respect. Yeah. And I think children children that drawn to that grandparents. I think on some level they they're interested in the idea of being old. They want to be six rather than five or seven rather than six. Yeah. Growing up is better. So if you like seventy four then that's incredibly high ranking in this system of Wyatt manship that children have. So I think it was sort of to do that. But you're aware of all the positives being old in terms of. You've got experience and authority and wisdom, and they're potentially the parents of your parents will Trump card that is, but you're not aware of much of the imminence of death. Yes. That's that's definitely a downside being old the irreversibility of the various manifestations of decrepitude and the of death. That is that's the mask could be old for light at few months, like a dying your hair then go back to being middle-aged than young for another year. And then then that would be fine. Nobody objects to gray hair. They just object to you'll. Hey, going that color and never turning back. And that's a sign of other thing. You can't turn back. Yeah. In the future. According to you all know, Harare. Him is he the? Yeah. He says that like everything he says is like it's already happening. This isn't speculation. This is reality is happening now. And he's saying there's all kinds of things that medical science will enable us to do when we get older and all sorts of ways that particularly the rich and powerful, of course, will be able to extend their lives, and you'll be able to just go in and a combination of gene therapy, and by onyx, basically will enable you just to to cruise on for years and years and years, you just go in and replace a load of bits and pieces every three years, whatever. Yeah. When they were down and can live into your three hundred. So whatever you're going to be signing on for that probably. But her we think I'm very shortsighted and I wear contact lenses quite a bit and less. So now, the I'm you know, my wife. Life doesn't seem to mind my glasses. So it can't be to God. Then. But I wish think why did I just get them laser though? And then I think well, I'm up for that in general, but I'm not up for that on any specific day. So the day in which I get up and write today's day. The what you're choosing to do today rather than to not do this today is to go into a place where someone will pointed laser your eyes and slice a bit off your eye with that laser apparently that'll be fine. Although people do say don't inhale because you can smell your is cooking. Yeah. And I think on any given day I'll go in principle that would be good to have perfect eyesight. But not today. And I think I might the age of two hundred seventy I might be like that about death. Yeah. I think I've had a good innings and everything and that's fine. So yes, I think basically I'm not just going to carry on replacing parts indefinitely. So some point I'll come to terms with deafen deliberately die. Yeah. Just not today. I mean, I'm sure I'll change my tube. But recently, I've been coming to terms with the idea of just going for the three score years and ten and I'll be delighted if I get that. Because I think I'll definitely be a hundred. Because modern times and also I'm very lucky like me personally, things generally go right for me. But then certain point I stopped thinking that. And I thought oh, no realistically, I'll be lucky to make it to seventy. But. What's that twenty cystic should do? Right. You should make it to seventy that would be below average. But you've already got the you'll current age. I've already won you've got through the the various deaths bikes yet the infant deaths bike the unwise men in their twenties deaths. Bike thirties is a good safe. Non death decade. Forties starts to creep up again. Yeah. Until the, you know, the hundred tens although recently with the with the World War One coverage they had quite a few people in their hundreds on this. Some of whom looked really pretty great like totally complimented didn't look day over eighty. Good. St. Joe wasting? Got people. Very. Walk. You have just walked here. I have here. How long was that war would have been forty five minutes, but I gave myself an hour and went slightly security right to do an hour's walk every day. Now, you still doing that? 'cause I read your book. Yes. A few years ago back story. Yes. I still do that most days. Yeah. Yeah. And the motif backstory was your back problems title into woven with reminiscences about your life and career very enjoyable and how how is your back. Thanks. All right walking has continued to be considered. Yeah. I mean, I think I've Grumbly back. But but no it was terrible for most part of a year about. Eleven years ago. It was terrible. And I thought this is unsustainable. But at the same time, I'm sort of debt and a half to address it, and I'm so you were in ration- constant deafness discomfort and look at myself sometimes in the mirror moving around. And I feel this is like someone really quite elderly that was at a particular any band few months. And then I started trying to walk an hour every day. And really, yeah. Now, I've just the old grumble. Well, good. I'm glad you're back is doing thank you. Because that is a nightmare. Those kinds of things I was going to do a I'm not sure if I'm going to do a little sponsor read for the versus arthritis society. But they are kind of rebranding or at least trying to spread a new message about people not take authorizes seriously. Right. It's not just one of these slightly amusing aspect of getting. The old anyone thought it was amusing there did they that? Anyway, they won't be able to take it more. Seriously. What do you do about? What do you do? Probably tens out walking. Isn't that nightmare? Froth, right. Yeah. He walk an hour every day, that's an author. I just. Well, the thing that was suppo- when you're at school you remember like if you cracked your knuckles, people would say, you're gonna gal thrice now. Yeah. It's not as terrifying for children as some warnings. One. I would think that would smoking the genius of smoking. Is it carries? It's dangerous. So, you know, there's a cool element to it. It's to do with death. And therefore, you can seem like a rebel. But the same time the dangerous on a timescale that can't possibly impact on the teenagers who had thinking of taking it up. Just this. This could take years off the end of your life. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, I mean, I'll stop at some point at some point. Still some point either way years of the end of my leagues when it's going to be shit. Anyway. Yeah. So that warning actually I think and to the cash of the product if they said, it doesn't do any harm, but smelly then go. Yeah. It's really maybe I should stop. But no now it's dangerous. Yeah. Foolish. It imprudent at some point they experimented with slightly more lateral warnings. Because they where they are. Now. It's just pure horror. Organs and diseases, and and then a bit of emotional they've tried to emotional techniques with the impotence and with the children sat round the dying person. Yeah. Tugging on the heart strings in those ways, the again, those things aren't going to address the people who thinking of taking it up. I don't think impotence is tremendous Warri teenage boys more the worry is getting an unexplained erection on a coach. And equally the feeding of responsibility to dependence who you may leave if you die young again, that's not something many sixteen year olds really struggle with. Yeah. Because my wife used to smoke very heavily gave up an it was, you know, it's really difficult drug to kick. Butt you realize that people low people hate smoking. They don't want people to give up smoking. They want to hate smoking. They want to say you shouldn't smoke among the anti-smoking lobby or a lot of people who aren't really if they fully analyzed their motives really into the most effective way of stopping people smoking that into getting to say to people who smoke you idiot. It gives you can't see idiot and everyone stopped smoking. That's gone. You never get to say that you never get to identify yourself as in the more prudent try, but didn't do the costs of the genyk thing purely. To seen cool. Yeah. That's right. And they were a sit up early Terezin of something. That's now absolutely gone viral in every conceivable way, I the enjoyment of judging other PM harshly. We sickness about climate change the thing that that so much of the advocacy of the addressing climate change, which is just happening. He's undermined by the fact that too many people who that don't want cars and factories and things anyway, they wouldn't want them if they were homeless, and that doesn't speak to the mainstream who don't want to accept this terrible thing that all the things we do that are convenient and cool and warm and an invoked going on holiday and all this stuff. We have that destroys the environment. We want to keep that middle ground, which is who you've got to convince they're very susceptible to people who will say, you know, what is not really happening. Yeah. Because that's what they wanna hear what I wanna hear. I would love to believe it's not really happening because I I'm not that into the idea of just cleansing the environment because it would be nice away to exist. I like 'electricity I like cars. I like farmed meat and all these things, but I do accept that. If we carry on like this we render the only inhabitable space in the universe uninhabitable. But when doing something about that is advocated by people who assorted putting it in a kind of and this is a positive because we can be supportive in some way Clinton's right? That's really helpful hunting together a lifestyle that you have no interest in. Well. Yeah. Yeah. Even series ain't that but it still so it's. Mean that there's no way the planet could support seven billion people like that. But it's just so frustrating the people. As he saying this into that social media world, we're in now people identified so strongly with the things that make them who they are what I'm agreeing person. I'm I don't believe in climate change personnel. I move delta who fat or whatever it is that they don't really want to convince anyone they don't they're not interested in the middle ground. The centrists are despised majority. The just interested in maintaining their own position. And and saying things get applause from their own choir. But they're preaching to. Yeah. Yeah. The green party says so many things that allows the Donald Trump's of this world to take the possessive and that fundamental message is just for God's sake. There's a fire we need to put it out. Yeah. It's weird. Isn't it? Yeah. Almost like you don't want. The message to be here. Rable by people who despise. I don't think that's anyone's conscious. View. But I think sub consciously put it in a way that is anti to the values of the very people. They should be trying to convince. Yeah. Because I think people are sometimes worried that to put it in that language, he would have to compromise or sell out to some degree. Yeah. In the case of climate change. If you're not doing everything you can to just dispel the tire myths that it's not happening. Then then you're doing something much more irresponsible than selling out to image of your own purity of the expense of humanity's future. They're not saying that they believe that they are doing everything they can to tell people at that's the situation they're saying as loudly, and positively as they possibly can. But it's the way that it's being said, isn't it? Yeah. Is off putting in that causes people as you say to shut down into. Draw and also the lack of kind of realistic goal. Turn tive or useful bits of advice for how we can realistically change. I don't know. Maybe you know, I suppose it's a question of where you got to eat less meat. And if you're George Mambi while you have to stop having children taking international flights. And maybe that's the big thing. By know. I think you have to find a political system where you can make the things that environmentally destructive appropriately expensive, and that's an popular way. Putting that's how government of historically inhibited things the dangerous to society, you economists would say you tax what you want to discourage and you don't tax what you want to encourage. And if you want to discourage the use of carbon and the courage and economy that is looking for ways of finding. Tentatives to that. Then you put a tax on competent. But then all of our political system so fundamentally undermined by lobbying by corporations twisting politicians homes that there's no way they'll never do that, right and taxes are always so such an overly vote win. Exactly. Yeah. You mentioned that you like caused you like cars. No, it doesn't count. Okay. What I mean is I? World in which it's possible to get around at thirty miles an hour of don't they? I have benefited from the invention of the car. What you hate donkeys. Just bumped into you supermarket was backing out of blocking space, and I hit y'all. I'm sorry. Angry now, very now and making me very angry too. You dry right now. Nope. Active merit, as you know of Norio responsibilities to you'll Hamlin exactly how did that happen. That. Did we frightened drive? Just never found the right moment. I yeah. I was frightened. And then I did any tentative driving course when I was about thirty. I think for a week. And I hated it. I took a driving test and failed and left it there. I haven't had to do anything since then. I feel a bit bad. My wife is a keen drivers. She likes driving and doesn't mind doing most of the driving. I think there are times when she mine's doing all of the driving. I was busted for speeding on the motorway. The other day I was driving to Cantabria to show, and I drive that often. I get everywhere that I can if possible by bike on my Brompton, but every now, and again, it's just gonna take too long to get there by train or it's just overwhelmingly convenient drive. So this is one of those occasions, and I always forget about the speed cameras in those situations. And this is on the way where everyone is just overtaking there in the fast lane, you're supposed to call it the fast lane, not a faucet overtaking lane. It's marginally less slower late. Yes. But you probably slow in safely also incredibly slow and safe, but potentially marginally fast lane and the the overtaking. Okay. The safe overtaking lane. Please stick to the national speed limit over taking is very -fensive language should be. It should be you know, whatever the the impatience lane. Yes. The failing to be at one with oneself lane and defending to be at one with self to an even greater extent lane. But that's exactly why I was in that lane and got busted and rather than take the points. I went on the speed costs. So you've obviously never been on a speed call. It's pretty boring. I mean, it's quite a good deterrent. Because it's why that's Hof you down the love, and you are set in a school classroom environment with a group of strangers. I'm ashamed to say I've been on a couple of speed core in my life. You go on enough that you would qualify to be one of the teachers. The teachers pains to tell you how spotless their record is. I mean, they they're meant to be watching the white. There's no question that they would be hired if they had ever been guilty of any sort of infraction because they just need to be holier than thou in very all pro choice to that sort of training. It's be like a sort of clinic for you know, alcoholism. None of the people that ever been there any sense. It's what you're doing. I once sip of whiskey disgusting, you're out of your mind. I might be wrong about that. Maybe they were in. They you should have been there. I know what it's like then. Roundabout, and you lose control and suddenly you six feet in the air, and you white van and you feel like you're gonna live forever. But you're not. And there was the woman an old woman sat on my table at the course, and she was very proactive and keen to participate because they ask you all these questions. It's just like being at school. You know? It's like, okay. What what are the kind of things in Scottish instructor? Well, the kind of this is Jackson the kind of things you can do if you're worried you're concentrations, flagging what sort of things can you do to take steps to correct? So Kathy puts up a hand and says, you can turn the radio very loud. And he says, okay. How would that help your concentration Kathy? Well, if you falling asleep. It would wake you up. This is Cathy right away to. Everyone's like, no one else is the whole project because you have a five hours the home project is don't meet the instructors gays participate as little as you possibly can. Let's just get through this quickly as possible without making it obvious that that's your strength. Right. So but maybe Kathy's right though. Maybe I mean, but she what did she make it longer five yet? Tip of the iceberg. I gave you that. Right. She was chatting away and talking about experiences. She'd had with her husband. My husband would never let me use the cruise control. He'd never let me use it. He hated women drivers. And it would just go into all this. I'm sorry to hear that Kathy. I mean, if she'd had the opportunity she would have been talking about the whole history of her relationship with her husband and all the chats they had in the car, but you do come away from the course, there's a long section in which they illustrate this sort of remind you if you do get into an accident, and it is quite serious, the draw lots of pictures to illustrate all the people that that's going to affect not just your you and your life will be affected. The victim's life will be affected the families and the friends of all of that victim even. The people in the emergency services. The troll that will be suffered by them. If it's a particularly grisly accident, you know, the police all these people are affected by by these accidents. And it seems like. Very obvious and banal in a way you like. Yeah. Of course, it's no good to have an accident. But actually, they spent such a long time talking about it that it really does sink in to some degree anything. Oh, yeah. Maybe for the sake of just getting ahead of some annoyingly slow guy. It's it's not such a good deal. I mean, that's definitely something that puts this put me off driving here, the feeding of that on a low level, but constant awesome responsibility. And that most people are pretty sensible in careful, and that could anyone really. Yeah. The loss of certain time. And then something terrible hymns. And yet that ripple effect of ruin blinds is the consequence of mundane journey when you know, you you text message, right? Exactly. Well, you can't get your phone to pair with the fucking blue stereo. Yeah. Came bluetooth is responsible for a lot of these. I think we will agree that the world will be better place to them. The wireless dream yet. Is it worth all the pay? I think that the the Viking it was named after was better than the technology. But I keep thinking king was it. Yeah. I think I think because it's it's a Ericsson knock year one Scandinavia they named it after famous Viking warrior. No way that gold bluetooth shut up. You just that's true. You have to know whether he. Had any sort of ESP right bluetooth bluetooth was named after a tenth century King Harald bluetooth king of Denmark. Norway also known as how the bluetooth goals on or Harold the I of Denmark, holy shit. Good knowledge where the hell did you get that done? A little trivia based panel show. Couple of you, actually retained. I couldn't do CPR. But to go back to the driving thing. I was. Trying to think through like do I want to say? Not something I've been doing a little my talking about environmentalists being pathetically poor advocates their own AWS people really relaxed about that. So it's not like anyone listening to this online will be in any way, scrutinizing it for any lines. I mean versus when we don't live in those times. But the main thing that I felt coming out of the driving cost though, right to go back to that was that. I thought well, this is all valid and useful. And important. Why didn't I have to go to a similar course before I had children? And why doesn't anybody? I mean is that just so banal that it's not even worth saying because I think it all the time like there are certain fundamental things that I could have been taught and I'm not just talking about going to anti-nato class in. I'm talking about the actual nuts and bolts of parenting right through until maybe twenty or something. Yeah. It would be fucking useful. All the time. It's thinking how is this affecting my child brain once you get past that simple. Okay. You know, the the initial terrifying challenge of keeping a very vulnerable infantile live babies of really small and helpless. I mean, I found that very very worrying, and I knew him principle but in practice, and he said, I think this is really why couldn't we be lying horses where they get up after about twenty five minutes and star running around and having some grass, you know, that basically are a horse later that day, and it's babies just aren't people for for years and years and years, and that's right. But no. But now, I now the daughter is, you know, it's a healthy thankfully in chatty. Now, you thinking how how do you make have a brain that can be happy, you know, she's all happy now, really upbeat and positive. How old is she three and a half? Age. Yeah. It is a good age. It's really great. But but I don't know. I I won't have to be easy going, contented. And I don't know how to make her that. I mean, generally, I think the wisdom is Dell reflect most things back at you. So if you'll relatively easy going and loving than they shouldn't go too badly. So you are still a few years away from the school gates and small talk that will be involved at the school gates during the school, run or whatever. Yeah. How's that going to be for you? You the king small Smalto? No, I think I will try not to think about that and events, but I think I find increasing the most casual social interactions the I can away from I feel like I've been insufficiently friendly all InterVision be normal. And I think a lot of people feel like that. I don't quite most people. But I also think I worry that I'm carrying a bit less about that. And I'm just being you know, I'm just accepting the we'll I'm not that friendly. Yeah. It turns out, you know, it's not like I mean to be unfriendly. But I don't mean to be friendly enough that is being unfriendly. And maybe it's just better everyone expect me to be on friendly. And then they won't try and talk to me, and it'd be it'd be friendly with my actual friends who know what time lie can I'm less shy with them. And so I will talk to them. But I haven't really got the energy concentration courage to be a normal Chaffee guy. Just generally I tried that exact speech with my wife when she was complaining about me. Not being more proactive with the with school socializing. Right. And it didn't go. Well. What she said she said, that's that's a load of bullshit. She said, you just you just be nice. Just you're able to be nice be nice question of having to do it all the time xactly. Yeah. I think that may be something about being I didn't know what I like about being a comedian and performing in general is you sort of their Cajun's where you sort of have to be an giant and think, and you know in certain situations chatty, I'm trying to reach now. But you sort of know while doing it that that's part of it sort of discreet project. And then when that project end, you can go back to being unfriendly and morose and quiet. That. Yes, fine. It's nice to put on a an iron shirts and have a wash. But it's also nice not to have to just be generally cle-. Yeah. But you won't be able to avoid those duties I think just by saying I'm not really that kind of person. But I'm just setting that up as a possible. I think you're right. I think I'm not sure I would have tried it as well. It wasn't a sp-. I didn't come down say. I have the following statement to make about not being more sociable parents at schools through the podcast. I think it's really. Slowing. Bay. It's like a science lab of talking. Interested in what you said this. It's like. Stephen. Show. I read that you are about to do a film with Steve Coogan Dany finished you have. Yeah. You able to say what it's about. And it's a comedy satire about a retail tycoon. He plays the retail tycoon, and I play someone who's been paid to write very complimentary biography of. Okay. Yeah. Is that the first time you've worked with him? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Met him. You know? You know, the do. And he's, you know, I think he's he's brilliant. Yeah. And directed by Michael Winterbottom, O rien, visit the trip and everything. No I have before. And for our party, people one of my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Does he have unusual working methods and directing methods, and I well, I haven't done many films. But I think so a thing he has a slightly. It's not as documentary. He's not spoof documentary either. But he has a slightly documentary feel to it. So it's not a lack of video village where the director in a costume and make up people looking at the monitors kind of thing. It's like Michael's? They're sort of behind the camera deciding what the shots are then. And there and squatting formal in that way. And I think that for quite quick. Yeah. You improvising in that environment improvisation, but it will. So there's this script. And so I think the bay in generally aims to get the script in the Kaman have fun with it. And that. Have fun with it. And you when they say have fun with it. A you having fun or you just going to say the line again, oddly, I have had fun with it. And I my expectation was very much. It would be the line. But largely because it's intended to be okay. We've got the line. And now we might have a chat around that subject. So it's not felt like we've compromised the line the lines there, and we can do other stuff as well at my be. And so I've been more comfortable with that certainly Mike spins TV's, always under pressure of time filming. So I'm a believer in thinking about what's going to be said in a different room when there isn't a crew waiting, but when you've got a little bit more time and worried about dropping a scene if you don't move on. Then I'm turns out I can't enjoy that a bit and a little bit less ASI and was the filming of show, for example that pressurized environ. There was. Yes. Yeah. All with up against it. 'cause because of the POV filming style takes longer, and there wasn't more money for too long ago. Understandably, so, yeah, I was very comfortable with talk about the scripts, and then we start shooting, and that, you know, and Sam Bain Jesse Andrea who wrote it wrote brilliant scripts, and I never really wanted to if I had any issues with them. I wanted to talk about it before we were shooting on the day because it was quite taught show, and that was one of the things that was good about it and anything twenty you know, it's channel full half hour twenty three twenty four minutes. It goes by very quickly, and that's not really time for longer as little comic cul de sacs. Yeah. I remember doing some jumper. Other weather makeup person was saying I've been working on this pilot. I don't know if it was called peepshow, then which been called POV, then right? And you actually had cameras mounted on your head. Yes. We did that quite a bit for the first series of very occasionally for the second series. And then never again. Yeah. Because the footage quality was terrible because this is pre way pre gopro hand. So it wasn't easy to get a decent camera mounted on a hat might now. And even in the first series that I think they use comparatively little they got from the head cameras and a lot more than they got from the normal camera. We sort of reaching ram the sides that was the acting bowl lake of peepshow was leading to do stuff with your hands on your own POV, and you had to pick something have a sip of something, you know. And so what you do reaching around the camera. So reaching camera person. It was always easier. If innoc-. Gene, you only did things with one hand if you had to use both hands that would involve running all the way round the cameraman and sort of getting a Ryan and the other side will sort of somehow squeezing yourself under the lens and shoving your right arm out with to look like it was coming in from the right direction. No good. If two hands appear to be coming in from the left hand side of the right hands. Right. That was a boring. Repeated problem that we never properly solved the head Cam did. So the head Cam footage crap. Yeah. Yeah. Originally was that you you guys? We just sit of sat watching TV that was the original concept. We never shot it as just that. Okay. Who sort of like, a live Beavis and Butthead. Yes, I think that was where the idea came from salmon Jesse and Andro Connor who was a magician and yes shenice than than it presents the word. Yeah. And he sets up objective productions who may peop- the three of them sort of hatched. The ideas starting as a kind of Beavis and Butthead thing we've be heavily reliant on talking over of television programs, and then that got developed into will actually maybe you see other things through their eyes, and then salmon Jesse had the idea of the interior monologues. And you know, as they thought it through started writing it the watching TV bit became less and less prominent and then when we came to make the series. As it became clear that get footage for them to watch is incredibly expensive and difficult. And so there was a massive incentive. Not have very much of a tool and so two. It was hardly any of the show. That's how it started. Yeah. And did those characters yours in Roberts characters come fairly fully formed presumably they developed when you drop the TV commentary thing, well, oddly, we'd co written a show a pilot with Simon Jesse for BBC choice before peepshow POV was commissioned. Call all day breakfast, don't quite why. But that was to be a studio sitcom set in a living room of a flat. It would aspire to be more in the comic area or something like father, Ted with things that are a bit more comically heightened can happen. But the characters were probably not a million miles away from Mark. And Jeremy so I think when seven Jesse then went to write POV, they took the four of kind of work on that as their starting point. Right. So yeah. But how long did it run in the end it was on from two thousand three two thousand fifty but only nine series? So it wasn't like sort of American program. We'd by the end it would like we've done to American series. My children are getting into it. Oh, that's very nice. Yeah. It's cooler. I mean, there's lots of stuff around that. I think sometimes certain type of teenager enjoys watching stuff that isn't exactly of the moment. You know, it's got some kind of retro cachet to it. I think I felt that is what you love. Monty python? Yeah. Okay. Listen to the goon show, and that sort of thing, I had a suit of sense that you can never be sure of the quality of another contemporary because the jury still out on it. How'd you get into the goons? I think my friend school had some tapes of them. And it was a, you know, I thought they were in places very funny places incomprehensible. Yeah. That's the thing, isn't it. Because you drawn by I liked the tone of of it yet that and python as well. Like, the funny voices, I like the personalities involved. But then sometimes I didn't get the jokes. The jokes just didn't really see to land that we don't know. Do I'm missing the reference or or is this is just not low quality material. And when I was a teenage comedy, I was really into it. And I was defining myself by it, and you know, I wasn't into music, and I didn't know about the charts and stuff, but this was something I could call my own. I didn't blame the shows when they didn't make me love I've lane myself. Okay. And I tried to look for what was funny about them. And learnt so many. Cultural references just from working out that must be funny because of that Proust's must be some sort of partial because that is what would make the summarized Proust's competition funding. He he must be highbrow and verbose or for me or this isn't a joke with American comedy. It was references to Spiro Agnew. Is that a made up name? And then finally find out who Spiro Agnew is. And it's. Spiderlike news. He was Nixon's VP. Thing though about comedy. I think that comedy for is for the core. Comedy fans. It doesn't need to be consistent. It needs to be engaging and weird and needs to feel like it something that not everyone would be into the universe needs to be consistent. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. But that you don't need the gag rate. Doesn't know the in the Cecil for jobs to keep coming into high rate and quality is much more of a mainstream requirement. You know, and that's the python films versus the pie TV show, I suppose. Yeah. In fact, certain point I realized that the shows I liked least with the ones with the most jokes in right? And you saw that most obviously in the more low quality American sitcoms and the very heavily structured gag gag gag gag, and they were all pretty lame. Yes. Absolutely. And take some trying. And. Like Seinfeld, though. Yeah. That's later on. And then I'm talking about what mainstream American sitcoms in the seventies or whatever right early eighties. Yeah. Then when you get to Seinfeld and the Larry Sanders show, it was suddenly, okay? This is much better. Yeah. What was the British stuff? We went to Europe. Seeing upstart crow Ben Elton show will you into his stuff when you were young codeine. Yes. Very much into Blackadder. Yeah. Black is huge. For me. I watched that over and over again and Fawlty towers doesn't is not worth saying because it's so good. It's not interesting to like it. What was it about black? Just just the central performance that central performance and sort of historical world and the sock Azam's and the rhythm of it. Yeah. The word play. Yeah. Sorta feel that my comic rhythms things what I hope sketch will have. There's a tune in my head the beat in my head is something that's been set by Blackadder in Monty python. You know, that's how I feel joke should come. And why? Know, I love doing upstart crow, and it's. It's the closest I forget to being in Blackadder, which is presented this literal another dream in. I hope to awake when I was a teenager, the theatrical artifice of it the the studio audience laughter the scenes building to a line. I left a let what's he liked to? We've been oh, he's brilliant terribly. Nice creative. Good man in I've sort of thrilled to got to know him because I put nervous of meeting comedy heroes. Because it doesn't matter really what they like, you know, whatever it's bounty by fourteen thousand blackout. I like the nets that why confused that but he's so nice. It's fun and funny in tents. Yeah. He's inspiring beta me, he's a I I'm yeah. I got real comedy crush on and have any pythons. I been introduce. Use to John Cleese. Yes. Hello to haven't spent doing I've met Michael paid-in a few times, and he was charming, and I feel like at every moment in his company. His pathetically gauche. But I'm very glad I met because I think he's really pretty also been introduced Eric idle. Speak reflection them. Michael pay. He was amazing. And I've also be choose to Eric. He poked me in the. Nothing. I just said to him. Wow. That's one of the five the one I've spoken to is Michael Palin. Yeah. That was great. But I was awkward the whole time. Right. He knows. He literally definitely knows who I am. I'm not awkward person. He's great. Like Eric idle too. I think maybe he was my favorite of the pythons you like Palin because he's the most approachable one in this group of slightly threateningly crazy people, but Eric idle just the voices. I really liked that would just a brilliant sketch team. Yeah, they had that that this Breen sketches. But also all the time, you're watching you sort of have a sense of this impish creativity about to fire thicky about all these things and things that coming in from different directions. And and so you you're not just you you feel you have a sense of collective creative identity that there is authorship, and you know. Yeah. I was obsessed with that show. Day. Fall. On tuesday. It says Fajar one week it's recycling. The next week, stinky. In this thing. Keep in collection will be all. So what is your average week? Look like when you're in panel show world, and are you now his bunch of questions? I'm throwing at you panel show related. Have you had to just commit yourself to would I lie to you, for example and stop playing field. With other panel shows. I was a long time. And I would just I like doing panel shows, you know, but I in trouble if you didn't. Right. Yeah. People feel so sorry for me. But I don't always I say no more often than yes. Now. When asked on things. Yes, I feel would I lie to I know it's good to come out. Well, and you don't know so much someone else's show. Yeah. I mean is big panel show. You haven't done that you think. I haven't done a league, which is a sky sport one. Right. Right. And then there's an IT one with Keith lemon. Oh, yeah. Okay. I haven't done that. But they're both in their not different genre. Then more, you know, sort of crazy variety show around some desks. My favorite kind of panel show would be just as good on the radio. Okay. You know, basically, incidentally televised. Did you ever play the book game? Like, I'm not talking on TV because everything there is a TV version of it or even a radio version of it. And I can never think like why I've talked about it on this podcast before. But do you know the game on talking about is it the first lines game? Yes. I have played that game. You can buy it. Yes. You don't need to buy it because it's just you will you need some books. That's running on x libra. They made aware of after I spoke about it before. Yeah. Ex yankus that makes leaves a good game. It really is. Great. Isn't it? I could I could easily see that on TV you went on room one. Right. Have you been on more than? Once now just once. Okay. What was some of the things that you didn't get through because you have to pitch for the stuff you're gonna? Yes. You put on that. Don't get produces. I remember doing Sugarcubes. Oh, yeah. That's right. That's what I remember about. It the things I was banging on about. Oh, I had a Cajun food. Manifest itself in British restaurants. But I can't remember whether that I did on the show but him I've been cut out. Anyway, that's not what is the opposite of what you asked. No. Yeah. I was wondering if you had was easy to come up with stuff. It was quite I mean. Yes. And no in I've spent I realized that a lot of what I talk about things knowing me, right? And that's that's my such of comic way in. I'm on the lookout for that quite often. Yeah. So having to pick some new ones that my special favorite ones, I suppose it was a bit. I was slightly picking my way through a land. That was quite now, this is a metaphor going to get out of making my way through a land. That was already quite intensively farmed. Wow. You really did. Why picking my way hoeing my were hoeing, some you can your way pain reaping a decent performance lunch from land that already. I thought you a great with picking away because you're looking around picking up stones here and that thinking this annoying, discarding it, and then you find all this is a peach and not page. This is one that I wouldn't have even have pitched I wonder if you can relate to it though, the Brown paper, the Amazon news in certain boxes. It's very it's the long sheets of crumpled up Brown paper. But it smells very strongly vomit. I've never smelt it. Well, I'm not going to now I've had situations where I'm just walking through the house. And I'm thinking, oh whose puked and then go around the corner, I'll find the there's an Amazon box lying with the crumpled paper. And it's like, oh, that's it. Holy shit. Really wreaks. Maybe that's my property. You feel bad about using Amazon. Yes. Sometimes I do I've decided with them because I was still for one. Maybe I shouldn't use them destroying the highstreet then. But then you think Amazon a very convenient so decided to use Amazon feel bad about him. Anyone would say that's a good fist. Because that's a big thing about the the highstreet is dying. You know, everything's closing which people don't want. But at the same time. I don't I can't think that the whole notion of things deliver the order online something that therefore humanity. Shouldn't do. I mean. That's nothing itself. Immoral is it well, no matter the probably. One of them. Yeah. It's not really one of them. And they didn't pay the taxes. Yeah. Exactly. If they paid their taxes, and that would two competing ones three competing ones there other online line cameras, and with that kind of model, then you feel that's fine. We could use the convenience diminish the veins of there'd be paying tax. So it'd be good. But nevertheless, still relative. That's how the number one. We really not paying tax really help. Apparently found to help to if you starting up company because you can use that money for something else. I'd like to say as well, but I try to find alternatives to Amazon when I can only sometimes have to lead on because we're out in the middle of nowhere. I find alternatives, but I can. But it says sometimes when I can I don't feel bad. And then I wanna do. It's very efficient. It really is. And that's good to be rated over doing if thing. Well. Yep. Yep. Yep. Ovo depends what delivery guy you get out where we are. Right. Some of them are great DP. Can frankly fuck themselves are DP who were the ones that. I don't know if it's probably not DVD. But it's a very funny story. I feel what the suddenly few months ago all the KFC's have to close for like two weeks because they changed their chicken deliver the company that KFC previously were specialist food delivery service company, and as a result of KFC leaving that company at the layoff later stuff is real blow losing that contract, and they'd gone to a generic delivery company and the whole of KFC ground to a halt like two and a half days into this company taking over the contract, and it just seemed so comic this new just couldn't believe the amount of chicken. They were expected to live. They said, yeah, we can do that whatever we will end the Cup this speech. Food delivery company. Yeah, we can do it for less than that. Yeah. The chicken, and it's almost like they. So what is it like one chicken week to each KFC is? Of. You need more chicken. But they couldn't believe the amount of chicken. They suddenly had to get to different places all over. Can you imagine how much chicken that is to take over the contract? That's the stuff of nightmares. You've got to make sure that every KFC in Britain has enough chicken perpetually. How would you go about that as a starting point? And I think some chancer this delivery firms that yeah, we can do that. Yeah. How hard can be and then found out very quickly. How are that could be? But they didn't have a problem with just turning up instead of chicken, they would just gang the little cards say. Try to deliver your chickens, but you we'll try again tomorrow. Wait continue. Hey, welcome back. Pod cats that was David Mitchell. Their case, you forgot very grateful. Indeed, David for making the time to talk to me. Looking forward to seeing that film. The Michael Winterbottom film with Steve Coogan greed is the name of the film. I put a little link. To short empire article about that. And there's lots of other links to. Related items that you can find in the description of this podcast, but let me just fly a couple of those things for you right now before I will full of it further about other bullshit. I was interviewed for a podcast. The other day by Samir Ahmed, quite exciting. I like Samir Ahmed, and I felt well I felt important being interviewed especially as I was in the company of quite a few cool people full this new podcast. She's doing called how I found my voice. And it is basically Samir doing. I think it's half hour programs with people talking about their formative, creative influences. So other people in the series include Benjamin's f- Anaya the poet rose. Mcgowan activist actor Philip Pullman writer, Catherine Ryan comedian and one of the greatest artists and thinkers of his generation at in Buxton was good fun and very nice to meet Samarra. You can find the how I found my voice podcast on a cost and other podcasts bins next. Let me tell you about a forthcoming putt cost episode with Hugh might want to do a bit of prep full up to you at the end of this run of podcasts. And the plan is to put about ten or eleven out once a week for the next few weeks. I'm not sure exactly how many. They'll be but towards the end of the run will be a podcast in which myself, Sara Pascoe and Richard. I discuss the book catcher in the ri- by j d Salinger. It's one of the most famous books in the world. I had to read it when I was young man at school and didn't really get it or like it very much. And then recently, I was staying at the house of my friend and podcast producer shameless. Murphy Mitchell, this loads of books lying around and one of them was catcher in the Ryan. I picked it up and started leafing through it. And immediately got hooked back in. And read it all again and really enjoyed it. And just felt that I wanted to talk about it with some other people, and I knew that Richard. I what a was a big fan because spoken about the book with him before it was a big influence on him when he was growing up. And I thought I'd ask Sara Pascoe to join us because she's very reader, and I don't know. I just like Sara Pascoe so she came along, and we recorded a very rambling conversation about it. But club style talking about the book itself, and the way it's written and about JD Salinger, and the the kind of myth and control of ac- surrounding him as an author person as I say, very very sort of formless and Ramle, but you might find it interesting, especially if you're a fan of the book, and if you've never read the book before. Oh, well, maybe this is an opportunity for you to give it a go. It's easy to read. It's not very long. I'll put a link to the good reads website in the description of the podcast where you can read a synopsis and reviews of the book, and you can also buy a coffee if you wish so that's coming up. We'll give it a go. You know, maybe we'll do it again with other books in future thought we'd start with a big obvious one. So yes, speaking of books, as you may know, I've been spending the last few months trying to get more of my book written still not quite finished. But I do feel as if the end is in sight, and I hope it's going to be out towards the end of this year two thousand nineteen and I'll be traveling about reading from the book and chatting with audiences in autumn of this year. But I'm still doing the work in progress show before them and what I mean by that is just. Doing shows around about an hour an hour and a half long where I read bits from the book and kind of talk through what I'm writing. And it's a useful thing for me just to to hear how it sounds out loud. You know what I mean? Anyway, I'm doing a few shows here in Norwich if you'll local you might like to come along at the Norwich arts centre venue, I like very much, and this is part of a a fundraising drive for the Norwich arts centre. So all proceeds from the show will be going to support the art center shows are in June, mid June. I think and then maybe one more night in July sometime there is a link in the description of the podcast. So maybe I'll see you there. And when and if you finally get my book, I'm sure some of you will think why did this take so long? Rosie come on. Rosie come on dog. She's bouncing. Slow flypast from the Harry bullet rose, don't go down. There though, we go to walk back this way. Yeah. Because it's lunchtime soon. So yeah. The thing is it's hard working from home on this kind of thing. I'm sure a lot of you can relate. There's just so many distractions, and I've got my various household duties that I still need to perform. You may know, I'm responsible for the bins in the recycling costs buckles, and you may also be aware that I'm the house is entertainment manager. So it is my responsibility to recommend films and TV shows from my wife and occasionally for my children, though, actually, increasingly they are the ones who recommend stuff to me nowadays. And the last thing my son told me that we should watch was Russian. Dull actually, this is a couple of months back, but I really liked to Russian doll. It's on Netflix. A lot of my, you know, I I'm aware that people get very angry. Some why are you always going on fucking net? Flicks. Fuck you is what they say. Just in the street. It's very shocking. That's a media stranglehold problem that I'm not personally responsible for so. Get off my back. All right before you even get on my back. Get off my back tescione Leone American comedian actor stars in this quoting now from the blurb stars in this comedy drama series is Nadia young woman who is on a journey to be the guest of on at a party in New York City, but she gets caught in a mysterious loop. As she repeatedly attends the same event and dies at the end of the night. Each time only to awaken the next day unharmed as if nothing had happened. It's kind of a ground hope days situation, she's dealing with in addition to starring Leone co created the show with Amy Poehler of Saturday Night, Live and parks and recreation who also serves as a writer and director for the Netflix original series. I thought it was so good. I really enjoyed it. I thought she was brilliant. Oh, it's properly raining now. Gonna put my hood up. Outdoor guy. I'm just going to commune with the elements and carry on talking about shows that you've already see Russian doll. It's good. It's funny. It's weird. It's interesting. It's clever. It's beautifully. Put together looks great. It's just ate half hours. So it's not a life destroying commitment. Really? You know, you can pretty much blaze through the whole thing to a week give it a go. What else have I been enjoying? I mean, all the usual stuff. I'm afraid to say I'd love to come back and have all these obscure recommendations for you. But no, it's Alan Partridge this time, which was so good. So many brilliant performances so many laugh out loud moments there. What do you think techno, bud? Yep. Techno bird agrees. Line of duty in other obvious one. But come on come on. It's fun. It's tense. It's solely it's satisfying. It's like my favorite kind of trip to the toilet. And then of course, there was fleabag. What do you think? Rosie. Did you like fleabag I thought it was a superbly articulate yelp of generational angst spiritual panic that managed to be funny, clever, compassionate and caustic, while maintaining a level of ingenious invention. The few TV shows of any Janjua have matched in recent years. Yes. Rosie I agree with you. I just thought it was marvelous the way she used the breaking of the full wolfing as a motif about establishing meaningful emotional connections. And I just thought it was the best thing of saying since you put that big chicken my bowl loss week is a masterpiece. Yeah. Fleabag the check in. What was nice chicken? And how about Partridge is a masterpiece. Do you like the stuff with Tim? Mm key and the interactive board. Now token about the chicken, still, right? Okay. And how about game of Brexit love game of braces. So good who's your favorite character? God. I love Laura Kuenssberg. I love all the characters. You know, they scary. And and where and just hope it never ends because it's so exciting it's supposed to be finishing toba now. But I'm pretty sure they'll do another series masterpiece. Yep. Right. Let's head home. And oh my goodness. I nearly forgot as well. Don't forget to check out the Adam Buxton app now Adam books app, and my blog let's face. It. Not updated that often, but they haven't been forgotten about and they will be new bits and pieces going up there on the app. The app is free, by the way. But they're all little bits of bonus content that you can access for the very small fee which goes tool. Towards maintaining the app and the blog thanks to the good folks at really quite something limited, and they're all going to be a few new bonus put cost episodes up there. So do check it out. I think the next one is going to be with the director Chris Smith who directed Jim. And Andy the great beyond which was documentary. I was really kind of obsessed with. In twenty seventeen. You may have heard me talking about it with other podcast guests. But if you go and explore the bonus audio section of the Adam Buxton app, you will find a conversation with me, and Chris about that film and some of his other work. Well, mainly his film American movie, which is great as well. And yeah, that's on there as well. As lots of other bits and pieces that you will be able to access for absolutely nothing right flipping Tucker time to go home. Thanks very much. Indeed to shame Murph. You Mitchell for his production support, thanks to Matt Lamont for additional editing on this episode. Thanks to eight cost for continuing to host this and many other great great podcasts on that platform until next week. Please be careful. I love you. Where?

Robert Webb David Amazon peepshow Ben Elton Rosie BBC Sam Bain Kathy Eric idle London Adam Buxton Buxton Cambridge University Simon Jesse Michael Seinfeld David Mitchell Blackadder
Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Controlled Genocide | 3

American Scandal

41:03 min | 1 year ago

Tuskegee Syphilis Study - Controlled Genocide | 3

"There's one thing Peter Buxton hopes everyone. Today's meeting understands he's no bleeding, heart liberal, he's been Republican all his life, and that's not gonna change. So if they think this is a matter of some naive starry-eyed idealist from San Francisco sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong while they couldn't be more wrong. Boxing looks down at his watch a ceiling fan words overhead he shakes his head. The tardiness is typical of what he's been dealing with since arrival in Atlanta for the CDC syphilis research conference, the government invited him out paid for flights and accommodations. Then basically ignored him. The only reason anyone even agreed to this meeting is because Buxton's been making so much noise about the ski syphilis study to his bosses at the public health service. They said it was an opportunity for him to make his argument in person, the Buxton thinks it's just to keep them in line. Well, they can stonewall all they want because Buxton's prepared for fight he looks down at the documents. He's brought with him. Reports and charts neatly organized in a plain Manila envelope all the evidence. He needs that the study is a moral outrage. Finally hearing footsteps Buxton, double checks, his ties straight as the men start to file in Buxton rises. Hello, gentlemen. He's met with silence frowns outright, glares no-one shakes his hand. So he sits down again. The officials cluster around the opposite end of the conference table, the end, furthest from Buxton so Buxton, stands walks down to their end of the conference table and takes see. Well gentlemen, thank you for joining me today. I'm Peter Buxton venereal disease investigator out of the PHS, San Francisco bureau, Dr William Brown, head of the venereal disease section of the PHS non silently unfolds. His hands behind his head hangs the American flag. He's going for intimidating but Buxton. Thanks, Dr Brown. Looks nervous to his left. Assistant surgeon general, Dr John Cutler. He looks irritated Cutler roles as is in Buxton's direction. We know perfectly, well, who you are Mr. Buxton. So why don't you just get on with Buxton doesn't miss? Well, Dr Cutler, I'd be happy to get on with. The ski study is morally unjustifiable and must be ended immediately Cutler. Smirks shakes his head dismissively, you know, I read the report he sent to Dr Brown here. That's actually why came today. I decided I need to meet you in person. See for myself if you're some sort of alcoholic or lunatic, or something rambling on about a study, you know, nothing about people never met this is serious work. We're doing here, young man serious work. You're lying to these men to their families. Letting them die from something that's been curable since nineteen forty five. Let me remind you. It's nineteen sixty seven sir, you're talking about harm to the black sharecroppers. Are you serious? They have nowhere to go. But up do you hear yourself? The PHS has spent thirty five years using these men as Guinea, pigs more than six hundred men, Dr Cutler and hundreds of them have already died, Mr. Buxton. Everyone in this study's volunteer a vol. Interior, I suppose you think the Jews Auschwitz revolve, here's to that's completely uncalled for I will not be lectured by some era Ghent on fort here report, you wrote, Dr color, you wrote that the subject would have never agreed to study without the quote suasion of burial expenses. I did not write that. I didn't write that must have been written by one of my colleagues, which one, I'd like to speak with him. Let me tell you a story. Group of poor, totally uneducated, and unsophisticated met their government, observed them. Yes. But for the good of science. And meanwhile government, also fixed every other element these men suffered free of charge for the duration of their lives lives that lasted much longer than they would have without that care who else in America hasn't so good. Okay. Doctor cutler. Now. I'll tell you a story, imagine one morning, you wake up to this headline white doctors in decades long, conspiracy to experiment on black men. The article describes you and your colleague standing by as one by one. These men have come to blindness heart injury than sandy for years to black men, said doctor, what's happening to me, and the white doctors lied. And they're still lying to this day. Are you actually threatening us? You have no idea what you're talking about. I don't see what else we discuss here Buxton gathers his documents. No, I'm not threatening. You not yet. But gentlemen. You better hope the world is not out about. This turn on the team. Watch the news, one of these nights, race riots black power negroes are not sitting for this kind of thing if we allow this experiment to continue, we are everything they say, we are, and we'll deserve everything will get Buxton stands without another word exits the conference room leaving the door wide open behind. American scandal is brought to you by chase. So you're thinking about buying a new home and chase. They know you whether it's vacation home condo in the city or new place. Closer to the grand kids. You're not slowing down anytime soon. So you need a lender who can keep up chase will save you money over time by showing you how you can pay off your mortgage faster. That's money, you can spend on new sports car or on a second home in Scottsdale or taking up goat yoga chase customer. Save more. Learn more at chase dot com slash A S chase. Make more of what's yours. All home lending products, are subject to credit in property approval rates program. Terms and conditions are subject to change without notice, not all products, are available in all states or for all amounts other restrictions, and limitations apply honing product offered by AP Morgan Chase Bank NA an equal housing lender. From wondering, I'm Lindsey Graham. And this is America scandal. The to ski study was nearly four decades old before anyone seriously questioned it, but it was never a secret. The black test subjects didn't know what was going on? But as the years passed more and more people in the white medical community did journals published papers regarding the study doctors disgusted freely during conferences throughout the nineteen thirties forties, and fifties. The doctors knew of the study saw as worthwhile research, that wasn't hurting anyone beginning in the nineteen sixties others in the healthcare field, like Peter Buxton sauce, something else on mitigated racism. Buxton learned of the study in nineteen sixty five as an employee of the PHS he attempted to end the study through the proper channels writing letter after letter to people at the top of his organization, he wouldn't let it go. And this led directly to his confrontation with Cutler nineteen sixty seven but it wasn't until nineteen sixty nine that the CDC which now oversaw. The study finally decided to take bucks in subjection, seriously officials can be panel that February not to end the study, but to discuss, whether it should be this episode three control genocide. Dr David censor removes his glasses and rubs his eyes. The always thought being director of the would be a dream job. Not a nightmare, the holier than thou gadfly, Peter Buxton quit two years ago. But that has not stopped this to ski thing from following sensor around. He opens his eyes and watches the doctors file into the conference room and take their seats, the state health officer of Alabama three medical professors senior officer from a medical foundation. Plus doctor Sidney landscape who used to run the study in question. But now works at Emory University. And of course, Dr Brown from the PHS, but there are no medical ethicists, and no black people. Sensor doesn't eat them here stirring, the pot. He's gathered the best of the best, and he sure they can figure it out on their own once everyone seated censor get started. He doesn't see the point and dragging this out any further. He briefly describes the study, then tells the men there in this room to decide future when it started. There was no talk of. Discrimination, or bigotry and no one had a problem with keeping the test subjects away from treatment. But now, people are asking questions and things were getting political so censor throwing up his hands, where here to decide we let the study go on. Or do we kill before opening things up for discussion sensor as Dr Brown review, the numbers, Dr Brown begins talking shaky voice Cording to his data? The original study group from nineteen thirty two was comprised of four hundred twelve black males infected with syphilis and two hundred four blackmail controls, never got sick, according to recent figures just fifty six if lyrics and thirty two controls now remain three hundred seventy three men in both groups are dead Brown tells the panel that he certain very certain that syphilis was the primary cause of death in only seven of them the youngest survivors, fifty nine years old. The oldest is eighty-five sensor, then announces that the matter is open for discussion, who would like to speak next. Dr j Lawton Smith off the Ma. Professor at the university of Miami argues. The study must continue he's examined, the test subjects for signs of we can vision and blindness and taken photos. He wants to continue doing so twenty years from now when these patients are gone, we can show their pictures, you will never have another study like this. He declares take advantage of it. Censors encouraged by the Nazis. But one man isn't nodding clearly unhappy. Dr Jean stolen chairman of the department of medicine at the university of Tennessee in a low voice sensor says before we continue at one of you shut that door. Sensor, considers the many doctor seated around the conference table of the men here. Stolman is the only one who wasn't aware of the study prior to being asked to assess it. And if he has reservations. Well, disagreements medicine are nothing new stolen can make arguments sensors confident that he can counter them all Dr stolen you look like you have something to say, yes, Dr censor do. Now, I don't want it to bait anyone as to the scientific merit. The study L remind even be a few, but that is nothing to do with the morality. What's happening here, the morality? Yes, Dr sensor, it's time to think of these tests subjects, not as test subjects, but as unique patient suffering from an illness. I mean what happened to the Hippocratic of, you're not suggesting just a moment, please. I'm not finished by the standards of our profession. This is an unethical study. At least as it's presently being carried out not gonna sit here and say kill the study your else. I will say this. Let's examine. Each patient and determined on a case by case basis, if treatment would be beneficial at this point in their lives, but that would completely undermine the goals and intentions of the experiment. And frankly, I take issue with your ethical judgments here. I don't find the study on the tests, subjects are being treated just not for syphilis and I'm thankful for that. Dr censor believe me, as I'm sure these men are, but penicillin exists it didn't in nineteen thirty two. It does. Now nineteen sixty nine though it may be inconvenient for some people in this room. We have a moral obligation to cure these patients, if possible though, respectfully, I disagree understood. I know you disagree, but I'd like to add just one more thing, more and more people will find out about the study in the years to come. I don't wanna be here when they find out the repurpose flea withheld penicillin for men who could have been saved by there's only silence. Sensor scans the room for rebuttal. He's thankful to see it appears doctor Lansky may already have one allows you, please. Go ahead. Well, thank you. Dr sensor with regards to the penicillin question surely, must know that introducing drug this late the progression of the seas carries its own risks. I don't know that these risks are worth and frankly, of course, censor- thanks treatment at this point is dangerous. He's grateful when another doctor says that he assumes the group probably wouldn't even accept treatment if offered. So why even ask sensing momentum fully on aside censor puts it to vote. The results are nearly unanimous study will continue. With that settled censor asks, the panel to tackle second issue. How do we make sure the press? He's this our way. Everyone knows the most bulletproof way to protect themselves would be to get informed consent from every test subject, but censor tells the group that this isn't feasible. So what's the next best thing, he's disappointed when stolen speaks I why isn't it feasible to get consent from the men censor explains it, slowly as he would to someone who's not very bright? The test, subjects are mostly elderly sharecroppers, who didn't make it past grammar school, if they ever attended in the first place to get informed consent from them talkers, would I probably have to explain what consent even was then they need to break down the facts of the experiment. Those facts would certainly lie beyond the comprehension of these men, but some form of consent should be attained. So how do they do it? One of the other doctors present sensor with solution. It's called surrogate, informed. Consent. They'll go to the physicians of Macon county, medical society and get them to sign off on the study on behalf of the test subjects to win on all fronts for everyone involved censor germs, the panel, and thanks the physicians for their participation in the weeks to come censor spearheads efforts to secure the cooperation of the medical society by September nineteen seventy he has it. It's a fischel. The to ski study is in its fifth decade with nothing to stop it. Untreated syphilis will still be observed the subject still won't know about it. And each of them will be brought to autopsy in due time the CDC will learn a lot in the process, censoring, Tippett's future. Looks bright. As the fog rolls outside his -partment in San Francisco, Peter Buxton sits kitchen, table with the afternoons mail, he sorts through and stops when he gets a letter from Dr Brown, at least it says, it's from Dr Brown, Buxton wouldn't be shocked, if his boss sensor, actually wrote a forum Buxton tears open the envelope and reads, he hates moments like this when once complete cynicisms validated Brown confirms that the experiment to ski has been reviewed by group of extremely qualified doctors who've come to the conclusion that it shall continue with no treatment provided to the test subjects. Dr Brown stresses that the decision to forego treatment is a matter of medical judgment. Since the benefits of such therapy must be offset against the risks to the individual. The latter is more or less, what Buxton expected. But it's incredibly frustrating, he knows Dr Brown isn't at heart. A bad person, none of these doctors. Are they just cannot see this from any perspective outside of their own? You wonder what words he could use to help doc Brown? See the true nature of what's going on here. Why it's unacceptable and unethical these black men or not just test subjects. They're human beings. And despite the enticing scientific possibilities. There are just certain things that human beings, do not do to other human beings three as simple as that as he begins to type his reply. Boxing knows his words will fail to convince Brown, if even reach them, but Buxton rights anyway, it feels good he types and types. He chronicles the history of the study decade by decade, and declares that the subjects can no longer exercise choice of ending their days free from syphilis. He catalogs, the moral medical, and legal issues, and concludes with this. What is the ethical thing to do compensate, the survivors, compensate, the families of all the subjects were should the CDC away, the quiet, demise of the survivors, and hope that will end the matter, Buxton believes that medicine is supposed to be. Simple, not easy. But simple, if a person has a problem and you know how to fix it. You fix it that feeling you get when, you know you made. So in better is supposed to be the reason you do what you do rereading his painstaking chronicle of everything. He knows about the ski study he wonders when that changed reply to Brown in hand oxygen walks to the mailbox at the end of his block. He's surrounded by a murky gray gloom, as far as the I can see. Doc brown. Never writes back and for the next two years. Buxton obsesses over the experiment. He attends law school and brings it up at every opportunity talked fella students. He talked professors. Everyone tells him the same thing it's a terrible experiment. But there's little legal recourse, the statute of limitations has likely expired from most of the test subjects involved boxing, could try writing a C L U. Maybe they'll know what to do. What finally and July nineteen seventy-two he bumps into Edith letter of the Associated Press at a dinner party tells her the story. She decides that together, they'll tell the world. American scandal is sponsored by slanted. So you're in a band, you're young hopeful got the right mix of rebel and showman you get a bit of a following than a bigger following. Hey, this is going, well, you're going to need to get organized. You do the stuff Bank account manager DA LLC, then you register for trademark on the band's name. That's when you realize you also need a lawyer to fight the government. This is the story of Simon Tam and his band. 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The day after her conversation with, Pierre Buxton Edith letter rushes to her desk at the Associated Press and rummages through it for a number. There's another journalist who must take it from here. Gene Heller AB research bureau. Jean Yves, hey spout to head out to Miami for the DNC. But I've got a couple of minutes perfect. I won't keep you. I really need your help right listening. I need you to investigate the PHS in the CDC do it myself. But my boss says, I can't you want someone closer to the action since you're in DC thought of you what action, you ready for this forty years of experimentation on black men in Alabama. Excuse me. Yeah. That's right. Most of the subjects have syphilis and have had it since the nineteen twenties. But the doctors never told them never offered penicillin. They're intentionally letting them succumb to the complications of their disease. Simply so they can observe the effects going to do it until every single one of them dies. There's a long pause on the other end of line finally Heller response. That's messed up. Yeah. So you can help me. Yes. Where do I start together charts letters stats everything you'll need? I'm literally just gonna put it in a box and ship it to you and let you take it from there. I think that'll work outta work after Lederer hangs up. She immediately begins packing the documents to send to her friend in DC, gene is the perfect person to blow this wide open. She's the best investigative reporter lenders ever met. And she knows everyone in Washington Jeanne will go to the CDC interview everyone. She can she'll dig and dig won't stop until everything buried is uncovered. And by the end of the month. Hellers work is done when she calls letter to let her know she still sounds prize at how easy the CDC made things for her. Let our new they would though after all as they see it. They took the prudent step of securing informed consent for the test subjects ethically. They're not concerned and legally, they're in the clear, but maybe they're not prepared for what happens next. The story breaks on July twenty fifth nineteen seventy-two in the Washington star. Two days later. John or Heller, long retired is at home with his wife. They're just about to sit down to dinner when the phone rings, the man on the other end of the line apologize for calling this late. But he's with the New York Times, and he has some questions. Heller says he has no problem talking about his time at the PHS, as director of the division of venereal diseases. He sixty seven years old and has absolutely nothing to be shamed of Heller explains the reporter that he was expecting this call even looking forward to it like the other surviving doctors involved in the formative years of the ski study his conscience is clear. In fact, he feels he and his former colleagues have been treated somewhat unfairly current government officials to be doing a bit more to stick up for the study leaders when the reporter asked about the ethics of denying. The test subjects treatment Heller has to suppress snort test subject probably got treatment anyway, from private doctors. They saw on their own time reporter asked if there's a record. Of which test subjects visited private doctors for treatment. Hello, shrugs. No documentation on that was capped by these sure it happened. Next question. The reporter then asks if there's anything Heller would have done differently. If given the chance the answer that it's no Heller thinks about von Miller, Wehner Clark. They don't deserve to have their names dragged with mud in their defense and his own. He replies. There was nothing in the experiment, that was unethical or unsigned typic-, then hangs up phone. Meanwhile, to ski nurse rivers is in her living room, straightening up duster in hand. She's a lot of time to do that. These days ever since they made her retire sixty five on account of rain. She's not bitter, though, just grateful. She got to work for as long as you did people ask, if she's worrying about what the papers are saying about the experiment. She replies that she's not worrying to all people can right within like they weren't there. They don't know her. She truly cared for those men and help to make sure they got to their appointments on time even after she was no longer fishery part of the study, just a few months ago, a neighbor wanted to know why she still did it. Why bother with patients and the ski you program, which didn't even work there anymore. Rivers replied with God's honest truth. They're friends of mine. I'm trying to keep up with them. So the department can keep up with them. I love those people. She thinks about them now as she looks up at her living room wall frame, there is her vehicle hobby award certificate store. Upon her by the US department of health, education and welfare. She never gets tired of reading the words to Eunice rivers for notable service coming twenty five years during which through selfless devotion, and skillful human relations. She is sustained the interest and cooperation of the subjects of venereal disease control program in Macon county. Alabama the certificate hangs between a picture of Dr king plaque inscribed with the Florence Nightingale pledge with a smile. She walked forward to dust it off. The phone won't stop ringing, Dr Melvin k Duval's office. He's tempted to pull the cord right out of the wall. Divall is assistant secretary for health and scientific affairs for the US department of health education welfare is department oversees, the CDC, which oversees the PHS, so he barely had a chance to read yesterday's AP story on the ski study before the damn phone started blowing up physicians politicians the media. It's endless in a statement, Senator proc Meyer, Wisconsin just cleared the study, a moral and ethical nightmare. Divall grimaces. It's a nightmare. All right. There's a knock on the office door and divall. Shouts to come in. It's the secretary here to write down devolves official statement, which will later be delivered to the press. Vol takes moment to collect your thoughts then begins I am shocked by ski stunning. No. He should be more forceful. He starts again. I'm. Shocked and horrified by the ski study. Although the study was begun in nineteen thirty two and although the opportunity to bring treatment to the men has long since passed. I am today, launching a full investigation into the circumstances surrounding. We will make a special effort to determine why the study was permitted to continue pass the time when penicillin became the effective drug of choice against the disease. He asked the secretary to find his spokesman divall wants him to remind the public when the study began forty years ago treatment for syphilis carried fatal risks. That's probably why it was withheld at the time, and he hopes these statements quite everyone down while he figures out what to do. Weeks pass as divall crafts, the official government response to the uproar, obviously, it's important to do the right thing. But it's equally important to do the right thing in the right way. And they're already been bumps he announced he'd conduct an internal review, but the public outcry was immediate government doctors don't get to police themselves anymore. They said fine divall can compromise. So today August twenty fourth. He's on his way to the front of his office, building to address the reporters himself after asking them to quite down. So we can speak. He boldly faces their lights lenses microphones, and shares. The new plan he is here today to announce that a citizen's panel will investigate the ski experiments, it will be run by broadest, Nathaniel Butler, president of Dillard university in New Orleans, divall has charged the panel with answering three major questions. One was the study justified to should the study be continued at this point. Time three our existing policies to protect the rights of patients participating in health research, adequate. And if not, what improvements recommended then the reporters began asking questions and divall dutifully answers each one in turn naturally, the first one concerns Butler, what led Duval to select him to run the panel for the assistant secretary. That's an easy one. I selected Mr. Butler because he's accomplished esteemed. Repeatable naturally. Divall refrains from saying what's for him Butler's, most significant attribute. He's black divall wishes. He could point out the Butler is actually one of five blacks on the nine person panel. And they'll obviously represent the public point of view over the scientific one he can't think of what more they could possibly want and also what he doesn't mention and what luckily no one points out that Duval is still very much maintaining control over one key aspect of the investigation by restricting the panel to his three questions. He's taking the issue of racism off the table. There's no question. For asking why the study was limited to black people in April nineteen Seventy-three, the citizen's panel issues its first report in his office divall wishes. He had a tall bottle of scotch to go with it because it's just as damning as feared so much his argument that the experiment was possibly more permissible by nineteen thirty two standards, the panel says it was ethically unjustified, even then it also adds that penicillin should unquestionably been provided to the men finally the panelists that existing protection for human test subjects are ineffective and inadequate. It's time for congress to create a permanent body charged with regulating, all federally sponsored research on human subjects fall size. It's truly all out in the open. Now. He puts down the report takes off his glasses. Then he surprised to realize that for the first time he's curious about what the surviving test subjects make on this us a feeling. The government is about to find out. A pastor and his wife scamming addicts out of millions there. Degenerate, son, locking them up so we can steal it all and dangerous. Conman in a runaway is cream truck. 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Start your seven day free trial today and then only five ninety nine a month with epochs now affects have we got a story for you? Charlie? You just have bad blood. They told him that in nineteen thirty two when he was just twenty six they told him that in nineteen forty five when he was thirty nine they told him that again, just a few months ago shortly after his sixty six birthday, their faces change over the years, but they're lies did not the government. Doctors have been laughing at him for forty years beating him down in a street fight. He didn't even know he was in Charles Pollard is driving now, his eyes intense focused on the road focused on the future. The future that now is entirely in his hands. Bente late the never he suppose as Pollard accelerates towards his destination. He now has one goal on his mind pay. Pollard pulls up to the law offices of Gracie Langford in Montgomery, Alabama. He likes Fred gray. He's a solid lawyer sharp, but always friendly always ready to help a while back, he helped handle some routine paperwork for Pollard gray. So humble to meet him, you'd never know. He was the most powerful black lawyer in the state of Alabama. He's exactly what Pollard needs. And he'll know what to do when Pollard enders Gray's office. The lawyer immediately rises degree him offers a firm handshake, by the it, how the family is policies. No time to waste no interest in trying to remember all the details. The papers printed instead he tells the story plainly. Yes, gray, if he's read about the men who were involved in the test for bad blood gray. Nonce knows exactly what Pollard is talking about read everything. He can about it then Pollard tells gray what he came here to tell him, I'm one of those men, you says smile drops from grace face is, is narrow as greens. Lowered tell me everything he says, so Paul talks and Cray listens. All had been at a stockyard among Gumri, a woman from the newspaper walked up to amount of the blue and asked him if he'd been in the Tuskegee health program from the thirties confirmed that he had the woman if he knew Eunice rivers, of course, he knows nurse rivers, he watches gray takes it all in taking notes writing faster and faster and faster Pollard walks through it year by year doctor, visit by Dr Bizet over half his life as a lab rat, and their experiment. When the stories done gray looks just as mad as Pollard feels great promises on the spot to throw the full weight of his firm at the case on behalf Apollon, and all the other black men dead and alive, who were tested gray tells him that well-deserved money is about to come to him. And a lot of it that the government has been embarrassed who happily pay to get this disgrace off the front pages gray expects generous offer in the coming months. And if one is not forthcoming, you'll sue them for everything. They've got and he'll win Pollard nods that sound about right. Payback. In February nineteen Seventy-three Fred gray sits and Senator Edward m Kennedy's office on Capitol Hill. It's not the first time in DC on official business not by a long shot. He's only forty three. He's already argued civil rights cases before the US court before that he defended Dr king during the Montgomery bus boycott. And even before that he defended MRs Rosa Parks, when she wouldn't give up her seat, now he finds on behalf of Charlie pollen gray. Turns is the forty year old Senator charges in he seemed to protocal matter-of-fact filled with purpose gray likes them, immediately, graph new, Mr Gray. I am sorry for the wait. No need to apologize and candy. I appreciate your time. Kennedy sits down loses. Time takes a moment to collect his thoughts. Then he gets down to what happened into ski was inexcusable. I understand you're representing the survivors. That's good. Thank you. Senator I helped to secure for the men what this country. Oh, them nothing less nothing more while. I'm here to help. We're both lawyers. We both understand how important it is with cases like this to win notches in the courtroom. But in the court of public opinion, I couldn't agree more good. So that said, I wanna keep you in the man you represent the opportunity to tell their story to the American people, I'm Charing series of Senate subcommittee hearings on health and human experimentation talking about sterilization, shock therapy cetera. Unfortunately to ski fits right in gray nantz, if it's all right. The two ski was a program of control genocide. I'll be at the hearings, and I know I can get at least one or two the men to accompany me, that's terrific. Peer bucks will be there as well. And together all of us will put pressure on Washington to get the survivors, the compensation entitled to. Now, let's get to our. Kennedy rises, great as the same the shake hands gray leaves the office confident he's found a new friend and analysis in late February. He introduces Charles Pollard to Kennedy the next day, the subcommittee hearings begin. Gray fines hearings to be surprisingly emotional, certain days, he wants to weep other as he so angry wants to excuse themselves to walk it off. But there's no running from this, and there shouldn't be it's time the crimes of the ph in the CDC were exposed the got away with it for far too, long Braise, jaw clinches, and frustration as a here's Peter Buxton recall, how he valiantly tried to end the study from the inside. But with stonewall he nods agreement, Dr J cats and Yale says, peer review panels don't provide enough protection for human test subjects. He's moved when Pollard and another survivor lesser Scott recount, how they were systematically, taken advantage of betrayed by men and women. They were told the trust their poverty and lack of education used against them. When Senator Kennedy asph, Lester Scott how the government can make amends, Scott says simply they ought to give us compensation or something like that, where we can. See other doctors and continue our health when it's grace, turn to speak. He doesn't hold back. He tells those in attendance at these men are done forever, dealing with PHS. He says they have no faith trust or confidence that the public health service will properly examine them and give them proper treatment, and had all the PHS will do now is try to cover up their unlawful conduct during the past forty years later, grays encouraged to see the Kennedys range matches his own this powerful white Senator fully understand the gravity of the crimes, committed Kennedy describes study as outrageous intolerable situation which this government never should have been involved in. In April nineteen Seventy-three Charles Pollard is out on his farm amongst the crops. He pulls up weeds tend to the soil. He thinks about the past the friends he's lost. Why are they gone while he still here doesn't make sense to him? So much of this just doesn't make sense. The phone rings and with as much speed as he can muster. He walked back to the house. It's still ringing as he steps inside. He picks up the phone as glad to hear his lawyer Fred Grace's voice on the other end gray. Thanks again for testifying at the Senate hearing. He says, things will change. Now, the CDC's going to track down, all living survivors of the experiment. Even the ones who didn't have syphilis and tell them they've got free health care for the rest of their lives. Pollard can expect a visit from field Representative soon and gray ads. Pollard should go see a doctor any doctor. He chooses someone with no ties to ski or the government. Finally, he's going to get the care he needs. All of this is good gracious. Him. But he and Pollard both. No, it's not enough. This leads to graze one piece of bad news. The government has not offered a cash settlement and doesn't plan to Pollard can only shrug he didn't have his hopes up. So what's next he asks gray? Are we done? No says gray. What happens next is this? We sued the federal government for two billion dumps. Next on American scandal. The study may be over what it's not the end of the story for Fred, dre survivors or the African American community by hope you enjoyed this episode if you did subscribe, now on apple podcasts Spotify Google podcasts wondering dot com or wherever you're listening to this right now. If you're listening on a smartphone tapper, swipe over the cover art of this podcast, who find the episode notes, including some details, you may have missed also find some offers for more sponsors. My supporting them you help us offer this show to you for free. And if you'd like to hear more of American scandal, and other one ratios in addition to receiving extra content early access exclusive perks you can subscribe to wonder plus, go to wondering dot com slash plus that's wondering dot com slash p l u s you can also find us and me on Twitter. Search for the hashtag American scandal or follow me at Lynn. A Graham, we use many sources when researching are stories but we highly recommend the books back Ludd to ski syphilis experiment by James, h Jones and to ski syphilis study, Fred Degray, and just a quick note about reenactments we can't always know what exactly was said, but everything in our show is based on historical research. American scandal is hosted edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for airship sound design by Derek Barents. This episode is written by Hannibal DS, editing by Casey, minor executive producers are Stephanie jen's Jenny lower Backman and non Lopez for wondering.

Peter Buxton PHS Dr William Brown syphilis Charles Pollard penicillin Dr John Cutler CDC Alabama Pierre Buxton Edith CDC Dr David censor Gene Heller Boxing United States Buxton gray reporter San Francisco Lindsey Graham
Bonus Episode: Taking Cues from a Pitmaster

FoodStuff

28:50 min | 2 years ago

Bonus Episode: Taking Cues from a Pitmaster

"I'm Beth Newell former doctorates, and I'm Peter mcnerney from the story pirates and where parents comedian, and the hosts of we knows parenting. But here's the thing. If we're being honest, we don't really know that much about parenting. I mean, we do have a two and four year old seriously. Is there a right way to do this each week on our show? We share our personal parenting triumphs and failure and failures because we knows parenting is hard. Maybe you can relate. You can find. We knows parenting on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to save our. I'm an eerie and I'm Laurin vocal bomb. And we have another bonus episode for you today. Bonus bone. And I wanna say Lauren, yes, that. There are two things about this interview that we are about to run with. Elliot moss over at Buxton hall barbecue and I want to share one. I'm really glad we got this interview because it was one of those things where I think I was involved in a seventy seventy Email threads. Yeah, just trying to schedule and it was the one that almost got away. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's really hard to pin down chefs. I mean, they're, they're busy. Humans. They've got a lot of stuff going on, right. I don't know what it could be. The Steph we're interviewing them about, perhaps. Yeah, yeah. Elliot moss is the pit master chef at Buxton hall, which is a barbecue joint in Asheville North Carolina that we got to go to. If you listened to our nostalgia comfort food and Carolina q. episode, you heard him talk about that kind of thing. But yeah, he talked a lot about, oh, just as lovely traditions that he grew up with and why he wanted to start that restaurant. And yeah, we thought it was a really terrific. Listen. We enjoyed the conversation ourselves, so we wanted to share with y'all. So here it is. Would you tell us what kind of barbecue you're doing it Buxton. Oh, we do what I'm just called Carolina whole hog. I'm from the eastern part of South Carolina, which is, you know, in line with eastern North Carolina where whole hog is done cook over wood charcoal and dress with us and pepper barbecue sauce. I've brought that style barbecue to the mountains of North Carolina, and we use fascia raise hogs that are raised by my good friend. Larry and Kathleen has van farms, and it's right down in old more tasha's all our picks for us and Evan provide them force for past three years. But that's not the only type of sauce that you offer. Right? We, there's a whole SaaS bar involved. Yeah, we have a, we have sauces for people that want a different style. I lived in Columbia, South Carolina for five years and kind of got a taste for it a mustard. So we have the mustard sauce and we have a couple of red sauces that lead put on our barbecue chicken and ribs, and then offer it if anybody else wants it for their pulled pork or hog or French fries and whatever else they put it on. Where did you learn to barbecue back in back in eastern North Carolina. South Carolina, I don't call or or it's near Myrtle Beach. My grandfather was a welder and taught my dad how to weld and we grew up with homemade barbecue pit that we will cook hogs that my grandfather would raise early on. And then it just became a family tradition. Legally could hogs around the holidays for thanksgiving and Christmas, and have the party and have everyone over and. Take the in the pig, and those are just some memories. I had my whole life as a little kid, and I started out cooking food for living and. After a few years inside, I want to open Mon restaurant and I couldn't think of anything else with barbecue that I wanted to do. That's why the barbecue some. Some, some of the rest of the menu though you've got a lot of really a conic dishes on their. What are your influences when you when you create those other Maine's insides alongside your whole hog? Well, I've worked at my first job Schramm business. Was it took away with differ eight years. I knew that I wanted to have something on the menu that compete with barbecue. So we get it in real run out all the time and body loves the fried chicken sandwich. So we have a chicken sandwich. That is a little, oh, March to my time, spinach fillet, and it's it's a really popular sandwich for us. We saw a lot of them bone apetite named it the best chicken sandwich into country a couple years ago that really helped solidify as the colts that is kind of thing. We do catfish. My grandfather had a catfish pond grow up catfish in and fried catfish is just really good and. We do a cured smoked fried catfish. We the catfish, I smoke it on top of the pig and then cool it off and then fry it. And then we put our western North Carolina style mop on that and serve it on the bone with a piece of American cheese and lettuce and some pickles that's kind of our for hit. Now, people don't or the catfish because it's very few place, but it's one of my favorite dishes. We have a double cheeseburger because sometimes I wanna cheeseburger. I heard that. We use. We use some nice local grasp at least for that and super yummy SARS asides and all I like to call them very mine fluence you know, I come from chefs background after Chick-fil-A. I worked at a several different restaurants, but I moved to Asheville to work at a restaurant called the Admiral, and I worked at for about six years and got a James beard nomination right before I was leaving to come up and Buxton hall. So I approached must've been, I guess, from chef more than anything, and it just happens to be barbecue related. Would you tell us about the hash? Yeah, the hashes a byproduct from making barbecue. You don't really see much other than South Carolina. I think there's a few places in North Carolina around the border and a few places in Georgia around the border. But you know there might be more out there just you don't see him like doing South Carolina every. The barbecue place pretty much has hash of some sort, and it's being it started as a way for them to use up leftover barbecue. Ours is the process of all of the fatty bits that we scrape out of the hog. We don't feed those overnight and save all the fat. That's rendered. We bought our bones and five some things in that make gravy, we save all those bit. And you know a week's worth of two can hogs. We have a lot of those bits and we mix that with stocks that we've made employing the bones, and we put some ground up pork liver in there for some good flavor and a few other secret things, and we cook it, you know, by the fire overnight and we winded up and it's kinda like a meat gravy. That word hashes a terrible marketing maze. People confuse it for like the potato or corn beef hash, but the best way I could describe it over, you know, without seeing it, it's it's a great or it's a Brown kinda gravy super, meaty kinda tastes a little bit like Brunswick stew or chili, but we eat it over rice and serve it over rice year looks in and you can get as a combo with the barbecue. Some some old timers put it over there barbecue. Like it's barbecue sauce. Kind of has that flavor and bull. Well, a lot of people eat over grits in the morning for breakfast. When when old man told me one time that that barbecue, like cocaine and hashes like crack so far ditches up. Ditches up. Once you taste it to people something all the time, I think about that all the time like you should come, try it if you haven't hashes a very, very thing. It's the most soulful and it's the thing that I'm the most proud of on the menu for sure, just because of all the monthly put into it and most places just throw all that stuff away. You can put some time and make it tastes really only we have some more of our conversation with Elliot. But first we have a quick break for work from our sponsor. The killer murders gripped. The small town of hollow falls a decade ago by the end of the killing spree. Six people, including my aunt Beth were dead. The police discovered a handwritten note next to her body and decided it was her confession, but my aunt was no killer. The mission of this podcast is simple to uncover the truth to clear my aunt's name to put the real tiller behind bars or die trying. I'm Tig Torres, and this is lethal lit, lethal lit, a Tig Torres. Mystery a six part scripted podcast series coming to your favorite podcast app, Mondays starting October, twenty ninth subscribe. Now. Ten, never miss an episode. And we're back. Thank you sponsor. Now, back to the interview, people have opinions about barbecue. What's it? What's it like running a barbecue show? And I mean, do you get weird flack from different folks? Do you get not nods from folks? Does anyone ever ever give you about the kind of barbecue that you're cooking? Oh, absolutely. You know, I I, what I watch a lot of TV food food shows grown up as a kid, and I could see the the rivalry and barbecue all across the country from afar, and I definitely knew going into the open a barbecue place that I would have people come here saying that this isn't barbecue or Texas better, Kansas is better. Your barbecue vinegar. What is that? That's not barbecue sauce. I knew all those things going into it. So I felt like I was prepared and you know, we do get those things. And barbecue is a very regional thing. People like the barbecue that they grew up eating, you know, I know I do. That's why cooked vinegar barbecue SIS. What I saw with my pal was raised on, not that I don't like other styles, but that's just, you know, like them coming here saying Texas better. They were probably raised on little neighborhood joint in Texas, and if they've barbecuing you'll never find another one might your first favorite barbecue. Why do you think that these foods do have such like a like a sense of timelessness Talca? I don't know. I guess it's such an old old food ways here. People been barbecuing foods for a long time. And they're hard to find. You know, people don't do it the right way as much as they used to starting to become more of a trend now for sure, but. Ten fifteen years ago. It was really hard to fund. Good barbecue and I don't know. Food isn't a style GIC. All of it really, I guess. Absolutely. I guess speaking of doing it the right way, how how'd y'all source you're, you're would Derrick? Watson is my would guy we've been working on since the beginning was fine. Some wood from him before we open our wooded sourced by Derrick, and he's not out cutting down trees just for us. He he keeps his ear to the horn and when a new development in the areas happening in their cut some trees down on our storm, knocked some trees down. He goes and gets them and cuts them up for us. It's mostly oak around amounts North Carolina. We're getting there is some hickory and some cherry. We mostly use red and white oak. I mean, he said that he had worked fair for tick flavored number years, but how did you decide to to make the the food industry like your your, your industry, like your your life? Well, I guess I come from art background as child. I always thought I'd be an artist and I feel like I'm pretty artistically creative and you know, I, I didn't really know what I wanted to do for a living. My dad was a welder. I knew I didn't wanna stand the new hot Wilms shop. So you know, I pursued some art and music was always a big part of my life collecting music and just listening to it. And I don't know. I started cooking Chick-fil-A night. I did it for a long time this 'cause I needed a job and it paid pretty well. And I guess it taught me a lot about, you know how to work in kitchens and managed people and systems, and you know, quality food and fishing team unit told me a lot how to work in the kitchen. And then when I decided I was ready to leave Chick-fil-A, I just felt like it'd be easy for me to get a job in a restaurant because I had some experience, but no one really wanted to hire me. Because of trick flakes they didn't really see that. I really experienced. I don't know. I was watching a lot of food network, you know, just cooking at home, cooking for my mom and dad and girlfriends and. Seeing their faces. I guess you know, coming from family where food is this always tried to in worse down your throat for love. You know, it's a family always wanted to feed me, and then I got a job at chef. And I worked in Oakland kitchen. You're not going to see, you know, people eating food and smiling. I could see instantly if they like the food or not, and putting all artists really just won't gratification. And so they're working on cooking food. You can see instantly if somebody likes it or not. And I, that kept me around for a long time just picking through and seeing people happy about invading plates and dishes and then opening Buxton. I think they went more of a kind of a big installation art piece of me. I got this soul space, you know the colors and things on the walls and kitchens going. I was like in the news gonna like and shirts ideas, and it's a lot of places fifty creativity to happen in opening though. So I hope that answered your quality. Yeah. Now that was that was great. How was Buxton born? How did you meet up with Moore? One meander one met at the supper club in Greenville. He'd been to Admiral a couple of times, but I'd never really said anything to just kinda some from far and hours planning on opening Buxton with one of the partners from the spicy admiralty. We'd be had a piece of property across the street move, pretty close to get an open, and we decided last minute to. Not do the project and we ended up on the land and there was a lot of hype behind you. No one called me one day they may want you doing. Buxton in told them kind of shorts, long story. He let's have a drink. And what if I help you try to get this done? And they'll say, well, you know, in talk about it and couple years later, you know, up in Buxton hall. We're going to pause the interview here. We've got a little bit more for you, but we also have one more quick break for word from our sponsor. Remember when you were a kid and everyone told you your special, they were right. You me and everyone alive on earth today are the most special group of humans who've ever lived. That's because we're the ones who will have to save the human race from permanent and complete extinction. I'm stuff you should know Josh Clark and I'm asking you to join me to start a movement. Listen to the end of the world, a ten part podcast series that looks at the existential threats emerging in our future, like artificial intelligence and high energy physics experiments. If humanity can come together like we never have before. If we use science in these smartest ways possible, we might just be able to make it past the eggs essential threats that are coming. Our way human civilization has been around for ten thousand years. It's going to take everything we've learned in that time to survive the next two hundred. The end of the world with Josh Clark coming. Member, seventh to the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, play music, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts and join the conversation on social take, e- OT w, Josh Clark. And we're back. Thank you sponsor end back to the interview. So how did you wind up in Asheville from from South Carolina are moved to Philadelphia from South Carolina with a friend. We both held open a restaurant called the wig. It's still around in Columbia, South Carolina cross from the state house. We just decided to get out of South Carolina, and we moved the Philly for awhile and he ended up moving to Asheville and me and my wife stuck around and he called me one day and said, hey, man, I've found this little spot. You wanna come the chef here and I was like, no, I was gonna move. I was trying to move to Charleston. And my wife at the time was doing make up for Matt cosmetics, and she was waiting on a transfer. She was working up there and she ended up just seeing ticket a transfer to Asheville and she did, and we decided to move your and open Smyth called and and like I say, I was there for about six years. I've been in Asheville since two thousand seven. Nashville, what's the, what's cool to you? I guess about about the scene there? Well, to be honest, when I first moved here, I hated it here that so much. They, why did we moved here? I didn't have a car. He's living in Philly. Public transit loose pretty decent and not so good here. Years ago way before Uber and all that stuff. But we, I dunno, I out in the spec around your job and then you know, towards the my time with Admiral, Ashland changed a lot. You know, met a lot of people here. There's always folks moving from all over the country as it's just always meeting new folks that are artists are weirdos or. Good weirdos good way. There's just a lot of interesting people here for a small town. It is. There's a lot of course, but you can kinda see you tour star. And once you can look past into her sister small town, and there's a lot of people here and everyone's doing interesting things, whether it's are growing vegetables of paying or they can pottery or clothes or jewellery. Just a lot of a lot of craft stuff here that makes it fun. Lot entrepreneurs, that the nature of the mountains is really great. A lot of waterfall, whatever's. Lakes, tons of hiking trails. If you're in the bike, they're just being outside for gene mushroom minutes, like a paradise there. The weather's great. You know, I don't like being to hot, you know, like into to cold. The winners are pretty bad, but most of the year, it's just perfect weather. We do get a lot of snow sometimes the winner. But you know, we get a lot of great warm summer days that aren't melting your face off, you know, just right. Yeah. And it's it's a good location. You know Atlanta's not too far from South Carolina, so I can go see my family without it being a big hassle speaking. That other entrepreneurs and artists and producers of who who else to do? Do you collaborate with for mostly for Buxton, but I suppose in general, Dave, our, we've been working home for, you know, years and years, even before books and open. He has a farm call farm and Spiro and they do greens. They grow greens and know their own flowers and corn mill, their own grits. And we do some of their products here do brunch every week, and we have their grits on the noon or super course yummy. And he also had the restaurant. You're called all souls with Brandon reusing, and they make pizza and pasta. And they used the flower that and growing the Millen and use organic stuff. It's really yummy, but we've done some things with them in the past, the show. There's farm to home milk as Amish family of the road that is making milk, or you know, milking cows and some, they'll can. They deliver it to us, you know, once or twice a week and using some local milk and pastries, and. Ice cream. So it's real nice shoes, things like that. A lot of fun was here van Barnes. I think I mentioned to you already, but you know, we, we spend we by twelve fourteen hawks in those guys. They can. It's been nice to see their family with our read the words marinated vanilla lab cheese on your website, and I don't. I don't think I'm saw that on the menu. But what what on earth is that? Please tell me about it. Oh, at some, we just did you only gotten into here? There's a creamery here called looking glass and. Yeah, they they make this cheese called chocolate lab and it's kinda like a tome that rubbed with cocoa and forget what else they rub it with. But it's an age cheese and they rub it, but it. And the chocolate is from from the the rub that they put on it, but they just gave so we all without the rope. So it's just like make it latte, and we just marinated it in some olive oil and orange, peel, and garlic, and herbs, and jelly and burbot with some bread. And he's like mad about that. Background, just making face. I, you know, small question. What do you, what do you think the future holds for for Buxton? Well, hope we're destination this coin as long as I think people keep coming to Asheville books and should still be here. I don't want it to go anywhere. We've got about seventy employees and I'm gonna trauma ours to keep them employed and ongoing. We do a lot of traveling for different barbecue event. You can't get out two bucks and all you know, we, we travel into Texas a few times and plan on going back again a few times next year and some different that he's across the country. Yeah. We'll just keep cooking whole hogs and they can great desserts. And besides cold beer. Is there anything that you would like to speak to that we did not ask about? I don't think we've talked a lot about our deserts, but you know something that's, you know, pretty different in special for us. As you know, we have a pastry show actually caps and, but to many barbecue restaurants, have me shifts pace your team. So something pretty special us and they do some good work down here, use a lot of the Lord in the crust and make jello out of the pig's feet for kids Joe's. And we do some weird stuff down here. And this brings us to the end of the interview to the end of another fetter day fight night, which is not really a fight or a night. I don't know when you're listening to this or if you're fighting with anyone. But I do like a catchy name for things. I'm working on that and I'm going to answer burning question. I know you all have. Oh yeah, because at the top I mentioned, I had two points. Oh, about this interview. I wasn't even paying that much attention. I feel like a really bad co host. Now, what is your? What is no, it's good at built suspension. I'm sure everyone's like, what about this second point though? It is. We were determined to talk to someone about barbecue and he was that. But also he expounded on this whole artistic view of food. That for me was personally enlightening on this trip, and I wasn't expecting that, and it was a lovely surprise. We talked about that in the wasn't the once in a lifetime meal. Yeah, there's a, there's a sorta sorta poetry to all of it. So we would love to hear what you think about all this. Let us know get in touch. Yes, you can do that via Email electron ick message. Email address is Hello at favorite pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at saver pod. Thank you so much to Elliott for speaking to us today and to land Taylor in the whole team over at explore ashville dot com for helping us get in touch with him and to our co executive producer here at stuff, media Christopher house yoda's for helping us get in touch with them. Thank you as always to super producer Dylan for putting out three episodes a week now instead of two. That's yeah, that's a bonus for you friend. Thanks where other co executive producer Julie Douglas for all of her good advice. Thanks to you for listening and we hope that lots more good things are coming your way. The mission of this podcast is simple to uncover the truth to clear my aunt's name to put the real killer behind bars or died trying. I'm Tig Torres, and this is lethal lit, lethal lit, a Tig Torres. Mystery a six part scripted podcast series coming to your favorite podcast app Mondays starting October twenty. Ninth subscribe now to never miss an episode.

South Carolina North Carolina Asheville Buxton hall Buxton Texas Elliot moss Tig Torres Beth Newell Columbia Josh Clark Philly Laurin Lauren Maine Peter mcnerney Talca colts Derrick cocaine
How whistle-blowers shape history | Kelly Richmond Pope

TED Talks Daily

12:54 min | 2 years ago

How whistle-blowers shape history | Kelly Richmond Pope

"This Ted talk features, education, innovator, and forensic accounting expert. Kelly. Richmond, pope recorded live at Ted ex to Paul university twenty seventeen. Like TED talks, you should check out the Ted radio hour with NPR. Stay tuned after this. Talk to hear sneak peek of this week, CEPA sewed. How many of us have ever seen something thought that we should report it, but decided not to. Not that I need to see his show of hands, but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before. In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees, forty, six percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something and decided not to report it. So if you raise your hand or quietly raised your hand, don't feel bad. You're not alone this message of if you see something to say something is really all around us, even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves. But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable coming forward in the name of the truth. I'm gonna counting professor and I do fraud research and in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information if they see it or in other words, encourage my students to become whistle blowers. But if I'm being completely honest with myself, I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students. And here's why whistle blowers. Are under attack. Headline after headline shows us this many people choose not to become whistle blowers due to the fear retaliation from demotions to death, threats to job loss. Perpetual job loss choosing to become a whistle. Blower is an uphill battle. Their loyalty becomes into question, their motives, their trustworthiness. So how can I as a professor who really cares about her, students encourage them to become whistle blowers when I know how the world truly feels about them. So one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle, lower lecture with my students, and I was working on an article for Forbes entitled, Wells Fargo and millennial blowing, what do we tell them? And that's I was working on this piece and reading about the case I became outraged, and what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realize that the employees that tried to whistle blow where. Actually fired, and it really made me think about the message that I was sharing with my students, and it made me think what if my students have been well Spargo employees on the one hand, if they will so blue, they would got would have gotten fired. But on the other hand, if they didn't report the fraud that they knew the white current regulation is written employees are held responsible if they knew something Indian report it. So criminal prosecution is a real option. What's a person posted you with those type of odds? I of all people know the valuable contributions that Wilson blowers make. In fact, most frauds discovered by them forty, two percent of frauds discovered by whistle blower in comparison to other methods like management review an extra audit. And when you think about some of the more classic or historical fraud cases, it always is around a whistle blower think Watergate scarred by whistle blower think Enron discover by. Wilson blower and who can forget about. But NAR made off discover by whistle blower. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth. But when we think about the term whistle blower, we often think of some very descriptive words rat snake, Schrader tattletale weasel, and those are the nice words. The ones I can say from the stage. And so when I'm not in class, I go around the country and I interview white collar, felons, Wissel, blowers, and victims of fraud. Because really, I'm trying to understand what makes them tick and to bring those experiences back into the classroom with it's my interviews with whistle blowers that really stick with me and they stick with me because they make me question my own courage when given the opportunity what I actually speak up. And so this is a couple of stories that I want to share with you. This is Mary. Mary Willingham is the whistleblower from the university of North Carolina. Anna at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case and Mary was a learning specialist at the university. And she worked with students primarily student athletes and what she noticed when she was working with students is they had they were turning in term papers that seemed well beyond their reading levels. She started ask a coupla questions, and she found out that there was a database where the student athletes, retrieve papers and turn them in. And then she found out that some of her colleagues were funneling students into fake classes just to keep them eligible to play. Now when Mary found this out, she was outraged. And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor, but they didn't do anything. And then married tried to go to some internal university administrators and they'd do anything. So what happens when nobody listens you blog? So Mary decided to develop a block. Her blog went viral within twenty four hours and she was contacted by a reporter. Now when she was contacted by this. Porter, her identity was known. She was exposed and was she was exposed. She received a demotion death threats over collegiate sports. Didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud. She really thought that she was given voice to students that were voiceless but her loyalty was questioned her trustworthiness and her motives. Now still blowing doesn't always have to end in demotions or death threats actually in two thousand and two, this was the cover of time magazine. Well, we were actually honoring three brave whistle blowers for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth. And when you look at the research twenty two percent of whistle blowers actually report retaliation. So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against. And that gives me hope. So this is Kathy Kathy Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon and one day, Cathy was doing her job just like she always did, and she stumbled upon a pretty interested in case see, Cathy was at the end of the month, and she was doing her treasures report for the city. And typically her boss, a Cromwell gave her a list of accounts instead, Cathy called the Bank and get these specific accounts and Kathy did or job. But this particular day Rita was out of town and Cathy was busy. She picks up the phone. She calls the Bank and says, specs me all of the accounts. And when she gets the facts, she sees that there's an account that has some withdrawals and deposits the she did not know about it was an account controlled only by Rita. So Cathy looked at the information. She reported it to her direct supervisor, which was then mayor Burke, and this led into a huge investigation a six month investigation come to find out Kathy's boss. Rita. Cromwell wasn't battling money. Rita was embezzling fifty, three million dollars over a twenty year period. And Kathy just happened to stumble upon it. Kathy is a hero. And actually I had the opportunity of interviewing Kathy for my documentary Alva queens horses, and Kathy wasn't seeking fame. In fact, she really didn't wanna talk to me for a really long time, but through strategic stockings, she ended up doing the interview, but she was seeking fairness, not saying, and if it wasn't for Kathy, who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered. So remember that Forbes article I was talking about that I was working on before my lecture. Well, I posted it and something really band tastic happened. I started receiving emails when whistle blowers all over the world. And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them, there was a common theme in the message that I received, and this is what it was. They all said this. I blew the whistle. People really hate me. Now I got fire, but guess what? I would do it all over again if I could. And so as I kept reading this message, these all these messages, I wanted to think, what could I share with my students? And so I pulled it off together and this is what I learned. It's important for us to cultivate hope. Whistle. Blowers are hopeful despite popular belief, they're not all disgruntled employees that have a beef with the company. They're hopefulness really is what drives them to come forward. We also have to cultivate commitment. Wissel blowers are. Committed and it's that passion to that organization that makes them wanna come forward. Whistle blowers are humble. Again, they're not seeking fame, but they are seeking fairness, and we need to continue to cultivate bravery whistle. Blowers are brave. Often they didn't. They underestimated the impact whistleblowing hat on their family. But what they contain comment on is how hard it is to withhold the truth with that. I want to leave you with one additional name. Peter Buxton peer Buxton was a twenty seven year old employ for the US public public health service. And he was recalled. He was hired to interview people that had sexually transmitted diseases and through the course of his work. He noticed a clinical study that was going on within the organization, and it was a study that was looking at the progression of untreated syphilis. And so there were six hundred African American males that were in this study. They were enticed into the study through get being given free medical exams, burial insurance. And so what happened through the course of this study is penicillin was discovered to help treat syphilis. And what Peter noticed was the participants in this study? We're not giving the penicillin to treat their syphilis and the participants did no. So similar to marry Peter tried to report and talk to his internal supervisors, but no one listened. And so Peter thought this was completely unfair and tried to report again and finally talked to a reporter, very similar to marry and in one thousand nine hundred seventy two. This was the front page of the New York Times. Syphilis victims in US study went untreated for forty years. This is known to us today as a test, Gigi, syphilis experiment. And Peter was the whistle blower. What happened to the six hundred man? You may wonder the six hundred original men, twenty eight min die. From syphilis one hundred died from syphilis complications. Forty wives were infected and ten children were born with congenital syphilis who's to say what these numbers would be. If it wasn't for the brave courageous act of Peter, we're all connected to Peter actually, if you know anybody that's in a clinical trial. The reason why we have informed consent today is because of Peter's courageous act. So let me ask you a question that original question. Variation of the original question. How many of us have ever used the term snitch rat tattletale snake weasel leak. Anybody. Before you get the urge to do that again, I want you to think a little bit. It might be the Mary, the Peter, the Kathy's of the world. You might be the person that could shape history are they could be the person that shapes yours. Thank you. For more TED talks at Ted dot com. Brad Hennig doesn't think elections are good for democracy, the fundamentally flawed, and I'm not sure if they could be fixed his idea, replace politicians with randomly selected citizens. It works. When people do this, people make trusted balanced decisions hacking the law that's next time on the Ted radio hour from NPR. Subscribe or listen to the Ted radio hour wherever you get your podcasts.

fraud Kathy Kathy Swanson Peter Buxton Blowers Ted Mary Willingham Cathy Syphilis Rita Wilson blower professor NPR supervisor CEPA US Cromwell reporter Kelly Chapel Hill Richmond
145 Get a Pen Pal

2 Girls 1 Podcast

34:20 min | 2 months ago

145 Get a Pen Pal

"The Girls podcast. Wrong Michael corresponding with up now. We. Now. Hers. Alone. Rich drafts. Just. Like your real friends podcast. Never asked out you're doing. Now. Wayne's. On, their emails. Chamula. In. A. Everyone I'm Jen I'm Ali welcome two girls one podcast alley and I have a background. Yes, we do. It's in performance. We had a live comedy show where we perform the Internet on stage it was not. One day we decided we wanted to meet the people buying the post and we created a web series called two girls one show where we did just sat through interviews and that we went unscripted adventures with. Our friends our new Internet friends, and now here we are one podcast where we are still talking to people behind. Internet. Communities and phenomenon that we find fascinating. We are also here with Matt from the daily Dot. Hello how're you doing so well? So, well, indeed. It is I. Don't Know What Day. Well, it's Monday for all of you out there if you're listening on the day this drops but for us, it's Thursday and for me, this is my last day before my weekend. So. This is the last day before Adam moves in what is tomorrow for the grants day of my life. Nice to. Present picked out I just. Arrive in time you're already going to be on the road, but it's real. Good. It's like a it's like a housewarming. Warming situation thank you. That's so sweet. I was GONNA. Tell you I was sending it and just surprise you. But then on the podcast, it seemed like a good time to also. You got. Out of it what you do? Levin. Said, he sent me another batch of candles he did things. Did really dig into that. I'm very interested in. A bigger and the candlestick maker. Jedi jammies a triple threat. Well you love the candles get before so much. So I know but he was sad that he's just when you came to the East Coast. So no, but the male is fucked. So it's not going to get there for three weeks and then I'll be back. Okay. Speaking of the male. Day. We're talking to the founder of a social network for finding pen pals from around the world. It's called a pen pal yet. Now here's why I hate today's episode and I already have fourteen thousand pen pals. It's called online dating. But are these like long-term you're catching up writing letters. It's like they fuck in text forever and I'm like are we gonNA meet or not? Although nowadays it's like are we going to zoom or not? It's it's. So the idea pen pal is just is terrible to me zoom on a first date that seems very personal segments in my bedroom now immediately. Well I would like to remind everyone from I. Don't even remember what episode early on that. I had a thirty year old pen pal from the Internet named monkey when. He would send me mix tapes of METALLICA I. Must`ve Address. When you thought. Well. How old you thought? He was Oh, I. Don't remember I think I assumed in my head like Oh twenty and? Wailed, and then somehow came out that he was like a thirty year old guy in New Orleans. So. He really was. A forty five. Like can you imagine like one of our friends writing like a teenager? That's so weird. Yeah a thirteen year old. So today's guest we've found on bread it on. He didn't ask me anything a last week I think it was a lot of the questions were about that. So to ask about that today, not that that's happening on the site, but I think people are curious to know how that's handled. I have a question for well mostly for Allie be because she's still in the dating world. You'd the site I. Yes I found three candidates for you with us we certainly. I'm not searching for a pen pal but I thought it would be cool to pen pal and as I was browsing I was immediately like looking at qualities that I would want in like a friend or a or a a match or something, and obviously not to date them. But like I'm not gonNA waste my time corresponding with someone who doesn't Isn't smart or doesn't share an interest you know what I mean and so it I immediately was on this dating must be like on the Goddamn. Honestly it did you have the same feeling here came first of all, you haven't experienced it. You for it. The second dating expert I looked at this pen pal site for twenty minutes listen if you're so intrigued by this notion. Listeners. Please I. Need You all to Harass Matt Okay if you agree with this notion, then please tweet at Matt? Matt what's your twitter handle? Tell them now it's really complicated. It's very long and it's Kinda like a screen name that I use. It's not like it Matte M. A. T. T. Underscore Silverman Gamertag. Follow. So if you agree with one, I'm about to pose please bombard. Matt Okay I. Think That Matt. Should manage my dating profiles I think that he should go i. think he to do this at this point he knows everything about my life he knows how I speak. Okay He. Chat up the boys for me. He can. You can flirt with them a completely trust your sense of humor. I don't let anything get sexual on chats with strangers I don't know. All you have to do is witty banter with strangers you will. Crush it met, and then just may when my zooms, you don't even have to deal with the complication of like. Finding a bar to send me to write like just. Any night in the week. I want to do this. Let me be clear. Let's stop. Having two kids it's hard listen if Amelia wants to get in on this she gets you at firming. Honestly I'm at a point I don't give a fuck what happens. All of your hinge conversations would be about kids podcasts. which which science podcasts you like what he? needs to start learning like digital literacy. You know you want her to be ahead of the game with her swiping. You don't want to be like me. Right. So she's got a certain now you gotta start playing. Yeah, I got a this is obviously a tangent and I'm sorry to take us here but life everyone's complaining about like Oh. The kinzer sit in front of computers for school and remote learning is not as good as real learning and I understand I sympathize a not all kids are the same but our daughter is learning like computer skills out the ass because he is like she's in g mail she's going on hangouts she's using Microsoft tools. And she's doing it on her own and I'm like we could not be more proud and. Saying she's doing our own. So you don't even really need to guide her just let her know I need a dating profile in her chat rep for me. Done Great. Great I think it's time for our guest. We're Trivia Trivia Trivia. Let's get real now needs to get out of my chair and pick up a page from the printer you. Print it out I, forgot to bring it over here. So Talk Yourself. Produce Orioles setup like he had phones obviously, but you probably have a clipboard don't you? He got up and went to the print out there. Are you there? You. Know me I always have a clipboard when I'm on one onset but not here not here I have a desk. All right I have trivia. For It's good. It's going to be fun. All right try to convince. In two thousand and one. Remember that remember that time. To. In two, thousand, one, a ten year old girl named Laura Buxton lived on a farm in Staffordshire England sounds delightful. During, a celebration of her grandparents wedding anniversary, she wrote her name and address on a little note card and she attached it to a golden balloon. The note cards said, please return to Laura Buxton, and it had her dress. She then released the balloon and floated into the sky and she hoped that someone out there in the world would find her note and become her pen pal. Two days later, something amazing happened. Who found this balloon I have three choices for you. Are you ready? Yes it sounds a bit dramatic but yes. Hey. The note was found by a fifteen year old girl who lived ten miles away the girls became pen pals and their correspondents over two years slowly revealed that they were biological sisters. The older girl had been given up for adoption when the BUXTON's were in dire financial straits. That's Choice A.. B.. The note was discovered by a secret service agent assigned to U S First Lady Laura Bush who was visiting London Laura personally responded to the Child Laura and their correspondents during Bush's term lead to a historic agriculture trade policy reform between the US and UK. Laura's now Laura's remain pen pals to this day in twenty twenty. That's Tracy. Remember I probably made up I made up two of these and only one Israel cures choice see. A hundred and forty miles away another ten year old girl named Laura Buxton same first and last name found her note and replied both Laura Buxton's were the same height had the same Brown pigtails, same blue eyes and owned the same pets. You're not pigtails are just a hairstyle right? He can change that. I don't know I don't know how it goes in in the UK all different than. Just. True. because. So implausible but also I played Laura Bush and play in college and. Even. Though I don't agree with Paul. Play what play was it it was called only we who the mystery shelby unhappy it was. Tony Koester. Don't love her politics but I have some sort of empathy soft spot for our show there we got going. Because you became her. Allie goes with the biological. Sisters Jen goes with Laura and Laura, Bush we will find out the correct answer the crack pen pal answer after this commercial break. Dear. Jerry durant. Today is cloudy. Just. Stop by for lunch then Melissa Eliot. Came to see me. James. Does, your is such A. Why Old Ride Added I cannot believe the Christopher lattes. Also stopped by. At Brock Kathy Phillips with them. It was a big old party and then there was a musical performance by William. At. His manager, Matthews, go. Way Too many people in the same space right now for during a pandemic. Okay. Right. Not Socially responsible but clever because you all know that those are Patriot supporters at the dollar level or more. Thank, you guys so much for supporting US storing this hell scape of time. We appreciate you and our hearts. You are a pen pals. Thank you so much and for the rest of you if you'd like to donate, does that Patriot on dot com slash two G one P. Support for this podcast comes from state farm with surprisingly great rates. State farm is the real deal when it comes to home and car insurance state farm agents are in your neighborhood ready to help personalize your insurance and you can manage your coverage, pay your bill or even file a claim right from your phone with the State Farm Mobile. APP, visit State Farm Dot com today to get great rate without sacrificing great service that State Farm Dot Com when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm is there. Not. The. Comedy writer based in Los Angeles and I'm looking for a pen full from New, York someone smart and witty and angry, and who enjoys no-holds-barred verbal fight. I don't need any more pen pals but I believe to be great. You have to have an emmy and that's exactly what I'm looking for. Good and emitting. Is that what people sound like in California? I absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do this only they sound like X. New Yorkers. A, so many stereotypes in one I love it. People from. Different places. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Right Odd What happened when a ten year old girl named Laura Buxton sent a balloon with her name and address into the Sky Alley with a that she found her biological sister. And, Jen you with be for Bush Laura. Bush she and Laura Bush became pen pals. No one chose see that she met another girl named Laura box. That is correct. That's ridiculous just. For the correct answer this has been covered in media and sites that cover sort of probability and statistics, and also radio lab, which is a very popular podcast a slightly less popular than ours. So we're giving it a little airtime here. They covered this I have a clip from that show, which will share the answer with you. Remember I. told you the first girl who sent the balloon with ten. This girl who received it and ten years old, she's ten. Okay. Okay. Now wait. Remember how I told you the first girl's name was Laura Buxton. Well girl number two communities. Yourself I'm Laura Foxton. Girl Number One. Mike Do. Flora Muksan. Yeah. No yes named Laura Buxton. They. Even have the same fucking voice. That's. Laura Buxton. well, I'm disappointed. We didn't get it but that's very cool. Very cool story with the kind of thing that you would read on the Internet and be like, okay this is some bullshit me but this is verified by slopes this verified by media by NPR, and radio lab literally two girls almost the same age I think the girl was almost ten. The second girl was almost ten years old when she received the balloon or found the balloon. And a same height. They're both like a slightly abnormally talso like. Height. Hairstyle is and to the point where they even are like I have a Guinea pig while I have a guinea pig I have a labrador retriever. I have elaborate like. Bizarre and so it's been. It's been one of the most statistical improbabilities ever reported in the media too. It's a cool story. Could you imagine if a balloon landed in your front yard and it said my name is mass overmanned Bryant. So I I love to watch. So I think might also be true. They were obviously related. Oh. Okay. You're you're contesting the results here yes. I asked him here. Okay. please. File a formal complaint. Well if you don't want to wait for a balloon to land in your yard, you can also try the social network for finding pen pals called get a pen pal. Beer so excited to have our guest with us now. So please welcome to the show maximum, Yovich Boca, maximum. Thanks for having me. We're so excited to have you. This is a voice to voice pen pal letter that we're doing right So we came across your ask me anything that happened about a week ago. What's life been like since then well, a lot has happened since then. Sort of went viral I guess and I got a lot of messages from people trying out the website and it sort of blew up of it. We actually got a huge spike of new users. So we read that you really like to write real letters. Sentra. That's From a very young age, I can't say I've been doing it all the time. But here, and there it's pretty much all been a part of my life. So Nice. Well, what do you love about the activating letters I liked that it gives you time to actually a sort of rethink organiz structure, all the things that are in your head before you actually write it down. It also gives you time to really think about orcher about to to right guess and there are no interruptions from the other person. So it gives you time to actually open up maybe even more than you would in conversation like verbal our instant messages and stuff like that, and where you from I'm from Belgrade Serbia and that's where I live. But I'm originally from Bar Montenegro. To places I've never been. We want to talk about your website, but we were curious how did you find your pen pals before starting your own site? Will there are a few other websites that are also dedicated to this but they are quite old and I don't think they really do a great job and connecting anymore there's sort of outdated and was up partly the embiid ascend for starting your site. Yet actually I noticed that people were complaining about the designer shoes, the the website not being mobile friendly is sort of questioned a bit asked round and saw that it was a common problem. those websites are more on the instant messaging idea that's how they work, and I had the idea that it would be cool. If the messages were delayed to sort of simulate the letter exchange at that time when I shared the idea with friends they weren't very supportive of that idea. They thought it might not work out that people might not like it. So I sort of ditched the idea and. Just because we're used to not our pleasure anymore that we want things down right away or yeah. Yeah. Probably that's probably the case and another thing that might have happened is they are just simply not into an tally in the first place they are not really like the audience for for that sort of a website. So tell us how the website works what are the things you can do on it. You you register on it we have these digital letters which are sort of like email, but with delays and a bit more creative freedom. I guess you could say the other thing is we have forums where you can post questions ask questions answered questions that they do all kinds of stuff but it's more geared towards sharing about languages, culture traditions, and stuff like that, and we also have like these stamps when you receive a letter of from what country that you haven't interacted before you actually unlock like a stamp from that country with the flag and stuff, and it's sort of their to incentivize people to talk to more people from other countries and stuff like that. How do people get matched with or choose a pen pal? How did they get matched up? There is like a search page with a bunch of filters, country filter age filter hobbies, and interests, filter language filter, and all kinds of stuff the use that to narrow down type of pen pal you're looking for you just to go on their profile. Are you read about their profile description and you see a few? You think you could have nice conversation with that person is like he's your type or something. So how do you make sure that matches are age appropriate? You know like how do you make sure that for instance, a thirty year old man who goes by the name of monkey who doesn't start writing thirteen year old That's my personal example from my youth. And that's that's a great question. I know. Need to do that more. To always say I know when guests That's a request. There is. Nothing in place right now that stops that from happening but I am working on systems both for reporting people in or like a restrictions where people that are older can't contact people that are that are too young and stuff like that. But since I am a one man team right now it's kind of hard to implemental that stuff. Yeah. Is this a dating site? No issue. There's not stopping people from. Finding their soulmates here. Stories yet. Best friendships or or people falling in love. A good question. But. Yeah. It's only been live for about two months or so. Okay. So it's not a lot of time for for. So stuff like that to develop what are you hearing back from your users on the site about what they're looking for in this experience of having a pen pal and why they're using the site. So I've posted like question on my forum on the website. Asking people why they're using the website and most responded. Because, they feel a need that to meet new people that they enjoy learning about languages, cultures, traditions, and stuff like that that it's a chance for them to connect with others in a way that other social media platforms don't offer and that it's more about sharing who we are rather than just our opinions. That's so cool and I love especially like the idea of being who you are so many people share opinions online but I don't know sharing who you are as is so much more meaningful. So you were mentioning, you know the delay in sending these letters. Can you talk a little bit more about why you wanted to have that delay and why people might find it valuable I feel like with instant messages We've gained a lot but I feel like we have lost something as well does deepen meaningful conversations with the delays it sort of forces people to put more thought into what they're writing and to sort of exchange link your messages, and on my website, there's actually like a minimum limit of I dunno I forgot maybe two hundred characters where you have to cross two hundred characters in order for the letter actually sent. And that sort of prevents those short messages like high and stuff like that. I wanted to to actually have people. Think about what they're going to write and to sort of personalize the messages to to the person that they're writing to. I'm sitting here thinking about like an eighteenth century poet like with a quill. Pen and they're gearing up to write a letter to their their love and they put the pen down and they just right high and then they send it takes eight weeks. To get there. We notice that you've kept this free. No premium account options so tell us about your choice to do that I noticed one of the problems with other websites you have to violet premium premium account on a monthly basis you pay some money, and then you actually can send more messages and stuff like that. You don't have like limitations. And when you use the free account, you have like a limitation where you can send like up to three messages a day or something like that, and I really didn't want to limit people. So that's why actually decides to to make it free. So the site is new do you have hopes and dreams for how it would grow in the coming months and years? I do have dreams. I can't really say much because I have like some expectations, but I don't have any experience with this kind of stuff. So this is like my first project I'm going like all out and I'm just like using it as learning. And use that knowledge on May. BE THE UPCOMING PROJECTS But if it goes, well, that would be awesome. Well I always say I'm going to try things we hear about on the PODCAST, but I think I'm really gonNA try this one. I have three new users after this and maybe many more. Awesome. Glad that you're bringing back. Thoughtful communication and empathy. I like those things here. Great things about the. Maximum. Thank you so much for joining us. It has been a pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for having me. Support for this podcast comes Microsoft teams. Now there are more ways to be a team with Microsoft teams bring everyone together in one space with a new virtual room, collaborate live drawing sharing and building ideas with everyone on the same page and make sure more of your team is seen in heard with up to forty nine people on screen at once learn more about all the newest teams features at Microsoft dot com slash teams guys have to tell you something what. I am in my child at home. I Took a flight, a war facemask in a shield. My child at home, and while we were interviewing opens this desk drawer and I've found letters. A CHILDHOOD BEDROOM Yes They weren't exactly pen pals but like others to and from friends from Lake, camp and stuff like that. Hit me hard because you guys know I don't like Nostalgia I. Don't like it at all. But did it hit you hard in a positive way or now you're just like Negga negative she's a puddle. I don't know. WAS A sad. Yeah I don't know I don't know why other people like nostalgia just like. Time gone by so many. Years ago, I don't know it just Said said. People that you don't see any more. Never GonNA see again it's sad because they're all dead. Center I, love like being. Now, it's crazy I love like being transported and being like Oh my God I was that person who like used what's up what's down? What's all around symbol? Of Fleas specific example. Thought about that idea. Oh my let's leave it there. Kidding. Oh. My Gosh. Mean passing notes in Class I just no longer exists so sad. What a joy that was. Well if you WanNa, tell us what's up down and all around you. Anyone. means. I'm saying WHO's listening to this that we'll get that reference. And UP I. kind of like self explanatory. No, but it's a pictographs hieroglyphics expression. Kids today, they just use an up arrow down arrow. Be At symbol the swirly yeah yeah. You probably got it now up up in. Elderly we have to explain things like that. Maybe alright it on a piece of paper, take a picture and drop it in the discord for anybody thirty or younger. Foreigners they might not enough. Was it regional. I'm so fascinated by childhood expressions of like like Nana Nana. Nana is global like it is just a thing in child's kids brains but then like is what's up down all around was that just east coast northern hemisphere kind of stuff for. West in California. Did you say that as a kid or not say it right? It's a written expression only it's not A. Other now use the word pop and I was like, Oh, yeah, you're from the west of forgot. But for some reason, my mind it's tied to looney tunes but maybe it's just because. Maybe, there was like a swearing cartoon care with like an all around sign I don't know. Interesting. With the Internet and globalism that there is a lot more sort of for better or worse common experiences right when you think of like the billion us on tick tock like they're going to grow up with the same. Maybe. But for by region yeah. There's a billion different youtube channels or Tiktok People's follow. Tick Tock is a thing like they're different like levels and layers tick tock that you can get algorithm to into and one of them is frost think. There and I don't know if this person is lying to me but apparently that's a thing. But I would love to see it tweeted us what is up down in all around June her. Aunt allie gold you can email us at two g one PODCAST EDGY MEL DOT COM. You can also text us or leave us a voicemail the phone number to do that ad is. Expired four, that number three, seven. Six. and discords discord DOT JP SLASH TO G one. P. If you are not yet on discord, it is free to download it is easy to figure out a once you're there in our room discord dot g g slash studio. you will meet other listeners of the show we've come sometimes guests from the show come, and we have a very lively conversations we love to see their. For like contribute, how do they do it Oh my God please dil. Patriot DOT COM SLASH TWO G one P. Even a dollar is a wonderful thing. I only take eighty five percents. So there's plenty of sure. They. Don't know if you're kidding. All right. We hope you have much meaningful interactions with pen pals and other friends this week and we will see you next time. Jennifer. Bring it out and mail with the host. My favorite earn hiding. In my Silverman Ericsson eight. Action Assistance is provided by the Number one source. Morning about flying. Assadi universe I believe to be great you F- to have, enemies.

Laura Buxton Lady Laura Bush Bush Laura Matt Allie Microsoft California East Coast US Adam Jen BUXTON Ali Dot Wayne Michael Levin Laura Foxton
Spring Adjustments & A Big Announcement!

Fantasy Focus Baseball

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Spring Adjustments & A Big Announcement!

"Disconcerting. It's very disconcerting logistically this ended up being the Byron Buxton show. And I don't know if he's going to be a top hundred fantasy Optima scene. He's no sentece focus baseball podcast here, your hosts Tristan Cochran and Eric era bell. Fi. They're welcome to fantasy focus baseball to beautiful Wednesday morning, February twenty seven two thousand nineteen. So our last show of February. And then March the games start count. I am Eric. He has tristen now along for the ride with us today. We've got awesome researcher slash producer again Kyle soppe. And of course, our courageous editorial watchdog Leo how as well. Tristan the games fake games have started. And I've been watching have you been watching this brain training games. I have. Yeah. I mean, I could you miss Fernando Totti's laser home run. That was shot. It really was it. Yeah. Of course, it's down account initially. You won't be in the majors in April. But that's a separate Schroth together. We'll discuss maybe we'll discuss that. We'll discuss the other top rookie who's not going to be in the majors right away. And his GM says he's not ready for the majors. He's only nineteen whatever that means. We have injuries we have signings with somebody who still hasn't signed a little bit later on a huge announcement for the show. And of course, the awesome hashbrowns here is the buzz. All right. Biggest news today in fantasy baseball trista. I'll give you three options. We haven't dealt with Manny Machado, which happened about five minutes after our last show. Yeah, we could deal with no one hour and auto Clayton Kershaw. Byron buxton. What do you like what's the biggest? I think Clayton Kershaw. It's the biggest. All right. So let's start there. I wrote about him on Monday morning, and then Monday afternoon, the dodgers gave us even more reason to be concerned. I moved out of my top ten starting pitchers, but still I think number fourteen and unquestioning that should I question that. Yup. I took him to twenty I questioned twenty. Yeah. And the reason for twenty is all throw James Paxton, and I'll throw Stephen Strasburg out there. As wire we any more slash less concerned about you know, these two relative to curb. Shaw. Same general question now Kershaw. Yeah. When he's been healthy over the past five years has been better than those guys. But it's not by leaps and bounds. They both been productive end. The important thing is the two of them are healthy today. There aren't questions about the shoulder and this shoulder issue. I mean, the fact that this is coming up at this stage of spring training before we even get into the grind of one hundred sixty two game. Schedule is a major red flag to me. I don't like guys like this who go through spring training where they have their entire throwing programs set off. So I I've got major questions I'm wondering whether twenty isn't conservative enough rating ranking. Yeah. No. I think it's fair to be concerned. I'm looking at your rankings now. So I did mine on Monday morning. You obviously did yours more recently. So basically, you're saying if you're in a draft right now, you would take Mike Levinger over Clayton Kershaw. Yes. And strategy with accident. Right. And that that I will say with confidence. I would take all of these guys that I rank. Ahead of without a doubt ahead of Kershaw. That's the point at which I'm thinking strongly about taking him. And hoping that this is just a minor setback. But I feel like you can make the case that if the next week or two weeks go perfectly maybe he springs back to ten to twelve he could drop out on my top forty overnight with bad news. I'm not sure any information. Now would make me feel better. I mean, obviously we wanted to be ready for opening day. But he's averaged what twenty five starts over the past three seasons. You're right. We I've been saying this for couple years now. Nobody's listening to me. We don't treat him like Strasbourg, basically because the numbers are so much better. The numbers are just elite even last year. Now last year was not his best year. In fact, wasn't zero last year like the worst of the ban in like six years or something like that? Yeah. To seventy three era one zero four whip, which is amazing. But it was his worst than a while. And this is going to be interesting something to follow over the next couple of weeks any other injuries before we move onto the other. So I think Carlos Martinez is kind of interesting as well. How? Did you drop the cardinals righthander I dropped him a considerable amount, and I'm actually much I'm more concerned about Carlos Martinez because of what this could do to his role. I worry that the cardinals aren't going to get him to a point that they're comfortable ramping them up for the rotation and having known that he pitched effectively as a relief pitcher last year and with their relief corps, currently a little up in the air in terms of the roles, I wonder whether they're going to ramp up to try and get them ready for a relief role at the stage. So there's downside just based on the volume. He could give you especially if he's not a closer. This team is talking about going with a committee style bullpen so saves might not be assured for anyone member of the cardinals bullpen. I think I had him sixty seventh among starting pitchers. Let me let me give you the exact he's sixty nine on your list. Yeah. I mean, you haven't after Alex res- who I think is even less likely to make starts, but that's interesting that you really are down Martinez. I probably haven't been the forties. But maybe that's not enough. You mentioned the saves. There's a bunch of teams right now that either don't have a closing situation settled or have manager saying they're going to a committee even managers don't even know what that means like net. Joost doesn't really understand. Why people like us say anybody can close. He doesn't really believe that. But he's going to do that. He claims it's not gonna be essentially breadbox burger Arizona could do that the cubs in in the wake of Morrow. A lot of interesting stuff coming out of cubs camp. They seem really angry cubs players and management. And it's not just about like what they're predicting. I think Prokhoda and baseball prospectus had a predictive for fifth place. It's not just that like John lesser saying. Well, I don't care about you nerd saying that my K rates down or that. I'm giving up home runs. You're just you're idiots. I wanna eighteen games. Like you saw that. Right. Yep. He's clearly trending in the bad direction. But he doesn't wanna hear it from people. Who are right? I think there's some frustration going on across all. Of cubs land or whatever about the chatter about the financial financial situation of the team that they don't have money to spend on free agents. And I think that's kind of casting a little bit of a shadow over everything involved with the cubs. But yeah, the bullpens of major question for them, by the way, just the when you mentioned Joost, I think that managers throw that word out there about committees. And really what they're talking about is simply a spring battle. I don't know about that. And I think in a couple of these cases they might just do what gave Kappler did last year. Which is you know, them down. Give me give me. I mean, I agree with you in cases like Baltimore where I don't know that necessarily matters. I think in Casey's situation, I think they're trying to keep it open for competition. I think Arizona might be leaning more towards competition than a true committee. It could be. I mean, I don't know why Archie browley just wouldn't get the job. But I think he wants Greg Holland to win the job. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's what would our Zona once volume. I don't think there's any need for committee. I think givens can just do it. I think stroke probably just fills in while maros on the DL, and that'll be at least a month. But it could be Carl Edwards. It could be Steve see shack who gets ground balls. Cincinnati. Just the other day, basically their manager their new manager, David Bethel, just said raise allegations, essentially is going to be used like, sir. Anthony Dominguez was last season. You may not get saved. He might pitch the seventh and eighth and it's just the right thing to do. It's the right to do. It doesn't change a lot though, it could mean a glazes might get fifteen saves instead of thirty. But if you look at the reds usage among relievers last year Ecclesiastes was used in the way that David Bellas hinting. So I think to your point we could be shaving ten saves office elf of his total, but he's going to give you the same volume. Maybe the, you know, maybe a slightly heightened number of innings. It's going to give them better. Iran whip to make up for those ten saves. That's fair. That is fair. But I I gotta be honest with you and some of the drafts that I've already done I'm going to put without putting like Josh hater, am I do not draft list. And the reason why twofold one I need to fill saves with my relief pitchers. The I like to have a structure of like six daughters three relievers. I'm not saying Josh eight or can't be great. A and b I don't think he's going to be that great again. So he's going to end up on that do not draft list. I don't wanna give it all away. But and if I think Iglesias is going to end up with fifteen say's rather than thirty to thirty five. Well, I'm probably not going to take him. I'd rather take somebody worse who going to get thirty saves. And the reason is I don't wanna finish in tenth place in saves. But how have the earring strikeout? Help of hater Iglesias Dominquez any thirty saves out of this guy. That's what I'm saying. Right. And that by the way, I mean this varies a lot based on the context of your league. I mentioned so many times that in a league that give you daily lineup transaction flexibile. And have starts caps, especially you can fill in relief pitchers around those and maximize the value of a guy like Josh hater. And that's why a lot of times. I see him getting I give them a good ranking is because I think you can maximize Josh haters usage in most leagues now in a shallow basic weekly rotisserie league. Yeah. I agree with you. You've gotta fill saves and you need to get quality arms. And the fact that a lot of these bullpens are going in that direction is a problem. I love the brewers three guys that they could have closing games on any given night. I love them. They're great pitchers. But the volume of saves has an impact I don't think hater gets a double digit saves. Do you think any of them do? Well, somebody asked to I think Nabil's is probably they're closer again. Just like he was two seasons ago Jeffers pitches. The eighth Hainer can be used from the six to the eighth. I think that's what Milwaukee does. And maybe we'll see a glazed Dominguez each get twelve saves. I think David Robertson is getting a lot of saves. But we'll see we'll we'll we'll get back to this and future. Shows. And by the way, our next year will be a week from today on Wednesday March six and after that we will go Monday Thursday, hopefully for the rest of the season are let's get to some other news five minutes after our last so many Machado sign with the Padres briefly. Did you move him up? Did you move down? Did you do nothing with his ranking? I actually moved him down three spots overall, which is negligible. I mean, we're talking about less than dollars impact in any auction format. And it's just simply that he is going to a ballpark. That does grade a little bit worse than Camden Yards where he had played the majority of his career. It's as simple as that. But I really like what this does for him on from the long-term perspective. I might actually rank in the same words slightly better in a dynasty format. I said the same thing. And then when we did our mock draft the later that day, I didn't do it. I actually drafted him eleventh. And the reason why is because I still I wanted to move down to my rankings. But when push came to show, I still liked him better than the players. I would have moved ahead of them. So that mock draft actually was was important for my ranking. And then I moved in and I left them alone. Because it's all about feel you know, you're doing draft. You like push comes to shove what I take care by Manny Machado, and I turned out I took Machado, and I agree with you on that. I mean bearing in mind that I was pretty pro Machado coming into the off season. The kind of tempered the very optimistic rank I had at the point heat he declared free agency. So we're thirteenth. You took him eleventh. I'm right in the same ballpark as you Mitch. Go ahead of trae Turner you like that now. I mean, obviously Machado is a better player than trade Turner. But trae Turner could steal sixty seventy bases. What do you think the likelihood of that happening, by the way? I I don't think it seems doesn't seem very likely to meet anybody's gonna sell sixty basis anytime soon, it's very unusual that Dave Martinez. The manager would say something like this that they want him to attempt seventy five to eighty stolen bases. I mean, why would you give away the strategy? I do think that if there's any player in the majors who could do this based on his likelihood of getting on base at a good rate and his raw speed, by the way, his raw speed grades as some of the best in the majors. We're talking about one of the ten best players on any roster out there, at least among viable major league regulars. I just I can't project him for that. I think if we get fifty plus steals from trae Turner, we've got to be very happy. And I think there's a good chance. He's going to get there. That's why he's in my first round. That's why he's my number one shortstop. On tuesday. No loan era. Nado signed an extension to stay with Colorado Rockies, which is big and fantasy. If you haven't been a dentistry format because we want him and chorus field. We don't want him in San Diego or Los Angeles. Either one like we won in playing in chorus field where the numbers are just ridiculous. Your dynasty top three hundred rankings came out on Monday. Now that you know, are not always staying would you move him up? I'm trying to see where you had him ranked. I had them twelfth. And this was one of the things I was thinking quite a bit about of anybody in my top twenty five I was unsure about what Aaron does future beyond this year was because of free agency and I- tempered the ranking a little bit. I could make the case he does belong at ten which puts them back ahead of trae Turner ahead of Andrew Benintendi. I feel like it's a slight bump for him. You know, briefly let's discuss the Email exchange. We had when you sent me the raw top three hundred innoc- rankings, and my one of my first replies was about Christian yelich who I traded for in one of our big leagues. And but I thought my feeling on yelich is he's also on my bus list for first round because I don't see him hitting thirty five home runs. Again. I seem hitting like twenty five and I still think he's great a five category producer, you'll still basis about three hundred. But I think that fly ball rate in the second half last year was just ridiculous. Nobody could do that. Again. Why would you have yet? Rich ahead of Arran auto. If you kind of agree with me that the power is going to drop. Part of it is that he fills categories on a more balanced fashion of these two, and I don't like I do have an issue with the fact that earn autos road splits are not great. So I do think there's a little bit of an ability in shallow league that you can mix and match bit. I don't think it's gonna happen. Very often. But I've I have to nitpick that'd be one direction. I go. I was I'm with you on yellow on this. He can't possibly sustain the numbers last year. I had somebody, you know, point out that that he had himself talked about regression and everybody talks about regression regression is not a bad word, but it is still a true word, and it's going to have an impact on him. The guy had two key numbers here. A fifty three percent ground ball rate last year. That's not a big power encouraging number. I need him to get more lift on the ball. Even then he had last season. And the other one is the twenty two percent Homer to fly ball rate, which was the major league leading number. And by the way in the second half. It was twenty six percent. It's gonna come back to earth. Little bit. And he's going to give back some of the home runs. But I think in exchange it's got decent. Speed. Reach reads pitchers. Well, feels Phil stolen bases. That's kinda why I'm still pro yelich. That's fair. That's all there. And I moved them out of my top ten, but he's like number eleven something like that Bryce Harper than that signed. If he goes to the Phillies we like him obviously hitter's park. If he goes to the dodgers or giants. Do we move in the other way or do we leave alone? I actually would not move him down. If he signed with the dodgers, just because. There's a couple reasons for this one is that the lineup is strong enough that it's going to boost the run and RBI potential. The other is actually dodgers stadium. The last I had checked did not have a bad homerun factor for lefties, and as a matter of fact, digging it up pass five seasons, I'll have park factors out by the way in the next several days. They it was the sixth best ballpark for home runs for left handed batters. This is something that came through. Yes. Monte grondahl. When he went over to the dodgers. I remember I I felt like that was a good good look for him. If he goes to the giants. That I don't like I I want to get your perspective on this. If he does go to the giants. I don't like that short term not a great lineup around him. The other is it's the worst ballpark in baseball for left handed power worse by fos Brandon belt, how he feels about hitting it home games. Hopefully, this will look if he just doesn't wanna play in Philadelphia. Then he just doesn't wanna play in Philadelphia that might be the problem moving on. And if he doesn't sign with Phillies man, I will not be a fan. I might not say his name I'm gonna hide from you for a month after that. Because I feel I do feel, but I was tweeting with somebody a friend of mine, and I said is it worth an extra thirty five million dollars a year to upgrade Nick Williams to Bryce Harper. Would you do that on a fantasy league? You wouldn't. I think I'm just like I say, Nick Williams goes eighteen sixty five and that's to seventy okay and save Bryce Harper doubles, the homers, and you know, first of all he's not a batting average guy. Like you. Would not in a fantasy league pay that increase that in real life. Bryce Harper is going to get you wouldn't do it. You'd be like, okay. He's my are. That's good enough. Harper's and upgrade. Nobody's arguing daddy's. Not. But you wouldn't do that. Would you? A little of me is going to disagree with you. Because there are cases in dynasty keeper leagues, which is what's relevant here in this this debate that the inflation rate would push Harper up to being worth the price. But from a pure bang for the buck perspective, I get where you're going out here. I just I feel like this this point from a baseball perspective. Does it really matter? What the differences between paying the three twenty five or whatever it is or three forty five. Does it really matter over ten years with that is he still a much better player than the Nick Williams? Nobody can of course, he is obviously is and of course, I want him on my team it makes my team better. But and this is a joke, it's making jokes. So you, and I have a very large disparity on our rankings for Byron Buxton. And honestly, this is not because Buxton started to spring training with a five for five two home runs and ten RBI. It's because I started to look deeper into this. And I wrote an article that went out yesterday today about bounceback players. And Buxton leads the list me because year ago, I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us liked them and thought wow that big September in two thousand seventeen future is limitless. He could do amazing things here. The way I ranked Adalberto modesty. I'm not expecting a superstar. All right. I just think the basic numbers are good enough to make him a top hundred guy. Why can't Buxton do that? He already did that two years ago. So I mean, the argument people should read it anyway that to me Byron Buxton is actually a pretty decent guy to take a chance on in the middle rounds depending on what else you have around him on your team not because he's off to a great start this spring. But because a year ago, we loved them what changed he had an injury riddled year. Now, you tell me why that's bad the spring stuff. Doesn't matter other than it's nice to see him doing something positive, and I want to see in you. So the problem with Buxton is this I see so much potential in him. He is the fastest player in the game. If you look at things like stat casts sprint speed. He is number one in the game period. He is the fastest guy out there that helps them especially for defense, which is going to prop up is amount of playing time. If you want to criticize them for the limited playing time last year, not getting called up late in the year that was on the twins, and that was about manipulating service time. So I don't take that as a negative on Byron Buxton. The problem is when he has been in the majors he's dealt with injuries. And frankly, he's at a good half season. When you mentioned in, you know, two years ago. No, it was half of two years ago. That was good and it was one month of September. I believe either a year or two years before that. So when I think parts of either four or five major league years he's had a good half year and a good month of September against weaker pitching. When they had the forty man rosters. But I still see so much to like in terms of the steals. If the guy's a regular major leaguer in center field in his defense props this up he could still steal yet thirty forty basis. He'll play enough for that. And he does of a pop to get to twelve to fifteen home runs. I rank them. I feel like I rank them well considering the recent history where do you have you rank you rank and poorly? I I haven't like fifty spots a head of you because the numbers, and it's kind of the modesty argument the numbers, I think he can get would make him a far better option than where you have ranked overall the season interesting comparison point though, because so when we talk about role versus skills, I think Buxton is a superior baseball player. I think is a dominant defendants defensive player. Exactly the both fast Buxton has a little bit better. Well, you and I have better plate discipline. The problem here is going to ninth as he should the twin twins. I have a good deep lineup. Now. They've really done some nice things. Yep. Assuming Keppler insa no hit and cruised as healthy. I mean, we don't wanna get too much into this. My point is why not take a chance on Buxton in the middle rounds. You haven't been around nineteen wanna to take a chance on a guy with huge upside who just had a. A bad year. Maybe just can't stay healthy ever. But if he were to play one hundred and thirty games and bat to fifty with fifteen homers and thirty steals. That's a bargain. Oh, yeah. He'd be. I mean, it'd be a huge bargain, and I already did that did that two years ago. He did. Yeah. And it's an absolutely fair point. And I want to embrace that upside I'm a very big Byron Buxton fan. You know, I've got a couple of shares of them. I was just having a huge debate. My keeper league about him more. I have them at a minimum salary, and I'm thrilled with that. And then I had somebody question. Why would I keep him because of all the the issues I'm trying not to ignore that are negatives with Byron Buxton? I mean, he's missed a lot of time. He's at injuries and the larger part of the career has been negative. It's a shame is shame lightning round. Josh harrison. The Tigers new care someone you would consider in the late rounds or no he'll play a lot. That helps the big impact for me was just Nikko gooderham being bounced back to you Tilleke that's going to also by the way have an impact at the age on guys like John Hicks catcher Elhage. Double cetera. The recovery for Cory Seager. Buster Posey positives. Negatives, anything you've seen that? I rank Seger four worse than you and not only because of the injury problems. But also, I I don't think a middle. Infielder hitting twenty three home runs and knocking in seventy is that big a deal anymore might have is a bigger deal two years ago when he did it, but your thoughts on Seagrams Posey Segers was more of a positive development poses was a little more negative just because this is pushing back the his spring debut. He's going to be debut in at some point in the middle of March. So I do worry about what this injury is going to have an impact in terms of his the power numbers. I've kind of inch Posey back in my rankings. Seger. It's kind of a leap of faith in terms of my rankings. I liked the metrics. I saw I felt he was very consistent likely to hit his projection player before these injuries two years ago. And so far so good with the injury prognosis. I feel like I want to just get back on board sort of got pick. Marlin Gonzales says a twin? Now would you draft him over Jonathan scope and Miguel? So no because I think those are the two spots. He ends up playing. Yeah. I I think that snow I'm a little bit more concerned about the impact on the nose playing time. No, you ranked I rent to know a lot better than you did as well. So no, it's not it's not hard to get. What's annot provides you? That's the main thing. I don't like. I mean, I think he's he's got great raw power. But he just what he provides you you can fill elsewhere it. Forty home runs Dresen they could do that. And he also had some injuries last year. He also why this is a key here for him. I mean here I want to be on board with you. I don't like him at third base. I think the guy should be a natural D H playing every day. And they don't have that spot Gonzales, do I take them over. So no, I think it's pretty close. It would be a it have to be the context of my draft where I was at. I'm tired. You've got six between sin. No in Buxton. If that comes under a decision who who are you taking? The need. Bucks around nineteen and so no one like later. So you're not getting either one of them. Well, that's one eighty two and I have Buxton at one eighty eight. I mean, they're right here either one of those. But when I'm looking at it from a raw perspective, you're throwing me know, any any context anything. I'm almost always going to go with the steals guy. Last one Sonny gray. I just crossed them off my list. And I could see that. I don't wanna panic about that yet. But yeah, I could see that. All right. Well, don't cross the rest of the show off your list because coming up after this. We have a huge announcement. And then the many hashbrowns let me tell you about Pete who loved hockey and always wanted to play in the NHL Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the ice by some nights. He even slept in his hockey skates p tractors and practiced unto one day when he was forty seven Pete realized he just wasn't that good. So he threw his skates in the trash. But then you heard how gyco proud partner of the NHL good save money on car insurance. So he switched and saved a bunch. So it all worked out. The soothing tones. You're the second half of the show. So what's happening? I want to hear this. What's going on? I'm excited. Yeah. We'll get to the hash Browns in a minute. But we've heard everybody on Twitter everybody everywhere wants to play in a league with you guys. So we're going to do that. We're going to bring back the listener Lee. But it's been a little different this year. We're gonna make it vampire style for those not the millionaire vampire league one team, which will be the podcast team does not draft at all. We don't draft a single player we make team comprised strictly a free agents. Guys. You don't want the garbage. You're not willing to draft. We're putting on a team. And then we're going to beat you with those guys just to make you feel better about yourself. So it'll be ten listeners Eric's going to have a team, and then we as a podcast team, and we're going to play out a vampire league, we want your submissions. Tweet me at Kyle soppe. He ESPN use the hashtag vampire owes six. Oh one. Oh, tell me why you want to be in the league while you're going to beat us anything why you deserve to be in the league one tweet. I'm not going through, you know, threads on threads on threads here. I got limited time you don't like the little notepad. No. Yeah. We're not doing that. Either. Like stick with the character limit dome. Two characters. Good. Singled out. I would say that a me'mon photo form Mike badger under the character. Limit anything. Funny. Anything you want to pass on? We get one shot at it though. Socks off, right. Shock. Our socks off bring it on. You should explain what a vampire is like what like a vampire Ryan said. Because a lot of people might not have listened football show. And then after Vang's with the blood, and the it's we keep it PG. There's so we'll have our free agent team. And then we play it's going to be a head to head league. So when we play let's say Eric and week one. And he's got Mike trout if we were to be his team, we can trade any player from our active roster for any player from his active roster. Yup. That's the penalty of losing to the vampire team. I love it. You lose your best player. And so we play out the season. Like that. If we lose nothing happens because in theory, you don't want anybody on our team anyway. And so that's that's how event league works. The every other matchup goes as as normal. Nothing changes there like I said head to head OB standard ESPN scoring the very simple. So does this mean in week one that he's caribou coffee the vampire slayer? Kerr team nippy late the schedule. So that I play you when we want. We're gonna play you every week Eric and just have podcast fodder. We're going to take all your number one pick. We'll play him in week one. I can't imagine how this is going to go. He's going to have to take you from Philly. When when is the draft going to be because that, you know, somebody might not apply for the league if they can't make you can only apply if you're going to be at the draft, which why we're giving you plenty of time. Cancel your plans. Whatever you're doing Monday, March eleventh, eight o'clock eastern standard time PM PM. We will be holding the draft. It'd be tristen OB. We'll all be watching. But Eric will be drafting. So he and ten listeners I'll be trying to win. Whereas you will take automatically worst players that you couldn't possibly us. And then when the drafters over switch them out for actual free agents. Right. Yes. They nobody drafts. Neil walker. You could pick him up, and then all the Marlins if you want and then we start the season so pretty much it's twelve it's twelve teams so two hundred and seventy while. No, no because that other team wouldn't be taken. So be two hundred and fifty two players. I think at taken I so we have to we would have to take players who are available after the two hundred and fifty second pick. Yeah. And this is fun on the football show. Matthew actually made the ploughs with their football team. Didn't he did? He he made the playoffs. It's football's a little different. I think it's gonna take a little building up in baseball. But we'll see it it. It's a fun concept and love it. We'll see how it goes. And it gives us a chance what took the line for the for getting in the tweets. The hash. Use the hashtag vampire owes six one. Oh tweet at me. Kyle sappy ESPN, and we'll make it happen. We'll have the league. And we'll let you know on the next podcast, but I'll be choosing them this weekend. So get them in soon. Get creative. Yeah. All right. Let's get to some of the questions for this week. We'll get to the hash Browns. And now we're going to help you beat us in this vampire league. So Zack wants to know Kristen you have been attending listed at eleven in your dynasty rank Zach hasn't been a keeper league and he wants to buy them as an elite talent. But he's having trouble. Can you convince him on Benintendi is a dynasty cornerstone? Yeah. And Benintendi since we mentioned yellow earlier on the show. I feel like there's a little bit of a future like that where he has the balanced categories. And that stays for the majority of his career. I've been waffling a little bit on Benintendi in terms of redraft versus keeper leagues because I feel like for this year. He's kind of in a spins as wheel state, but the potential so great it's still very young. It's got decent. Poppies got decent speed. He does a lot of things. Well, not a lot of parts of his game that I'd like to criticize other just other than just he didn't have a very impressive second-half. That's all. Eric would you take Benintendi fifteen in dynasty? Yeah. I have been attending yellow says the same player, I think Benintendi is going to develop more power the time goes on. I think he's gonna be better than yellow long-term. I could see that. I think you could go we love yelich a year ago. Oh. We did we love we had them in the third round. Okay. I'm just I'm saying what changed he had a chase Headley second half. I'm not saying it's chase Headley. But he had he had that kind of a second half. And now he's a top ten player. I just I can't do it. And I haven't close Kyle. You're saying that again, I think it's possible. Benintendi, catches them this year. I two I actually do too. I really do tristen again yelich yelich my lead. My do not draft list. If you have to spend the eighth pick to get him. I can't do it on raw talent. I don't find that completely inconceivable. But all of the numbers right now suggest that that's crazy talk that Benintendi is better than this year. They don't because we you know, he's going to drop ten home runs off that. Well, that's what Ted Benintendi doing. I'd say, yeah, it's very likely. He would but in that ballpark. It gives them the best chance at a high Homer to fly ball rate. So I mean, there's going to be regression, but he's a regression down to twenty eight homers or regression down to twenty two homers such a huge difference here. So according to ESPN's projections. We have yellow projected for twenty five home runs and Benintendi for seventeen. If I told you those projections for true, except that Benintendi got ten more homers, which is incredibly feasible for modern baseball. Like, that's I think that's where this is more conceivable is that it projectable outcome for yelich is mid twenties, and it's a reasonable outcome. But maybe not projectable for Benintendi. Now, what makes you say that adding ten homers to Benintendi is that projectable? No, no, no. That's what I mean. It's unpredictable it's feasible within. But what makes it feasible because he's the player, and it he's in major league baseball where the ball goes over the fence a lot. Okay. But now working against him is that he's in a much worse ballpark situation for left handed power than Chris geologists. Right. I'm saying, yeah. I'm saying it's within like eightieth or eighty percents. I'll in the middle. Like, I'm not saying that it's it's likely. I'm just saying that would you be absolutely shocked if Andrew Benintendi hit twenty eight home runs. No, okay. That's kind of what I'm saying. I don't think it's I don't think it's a high prominent I wouldn't get off on for it. I wouldn't draft report for I want to see him get. I mean, it's the same problem. He went back to the ground ball ways. Like he was going the wrong direction. They're like I was saying needs to go in the right direction. They both have got to improve. We're going to revisit this plenty I think all right. We got large. It's his first season doing an auction league. Ten team five by five. He wants to do describe your general strategy entering an auction room for the first time. Well, trista and I will be entering auction rooms this weekend. When we in the league of alternative baseball reality. That's labor. He's in the AL as a twelve team. Right. And. NL also twelve team. So I mean, it's a lot harder to do a twelve team NFL then at ten teen mixed, but Tristan, what's your general strategy? Obviously, we know the people in the room, we know some some of their traditions and what they like to do. But. You know, you could build a team of stars and scrubs. You say you're not gonna spend thirty dollars for any player and do a balance thing you could stick two one hundred seventy five dollars for hitters and the rest for pitchers or you could break that how do you do it? You do very well in these auction formats, I I do well, but I don't win you do. Well, and win a rule number one is be prepared. And I not joking here. I mean, there are a lot of people who hear that advice, and they don't pay attention to it. And then they show up with a stupid magazine, that's four months old with old auction values that are not appropriate for their league. And then they just wing it. And I'm sorry, you're at a disadvantage be prepared achy ready for your league. That's why we have so many up in the draft kid. But when find the one for your league. Be prepared to strike at any given moment at an auction. The good values could come with the first player or the twentieth player or the very end of the auction. Anybody who tells you? Oh, yeah. Don't you up for the first hour? There's no bargains. Yeah. Right. I mean, everybody's read that that that kind of change people's zig zag, that's just how this stuff works and the other one too is that the shallower your league is so Eric you, and I are in the AL and the NO only leagues, and I know you're in the mixed tellers league, which is a fifteen teamer mix league. I tend to find in the mix leagues, and the leaks that are more shallow. It is better to spend the premiums for the elite players and then try to fill in the back end either with cheap bids at a dollar or via free agency during the year because the free agency pool is much deeper. That's fair. You know, I've been at a couple. I don't know. How many years I've done it? Maybe ten years I've done labor an L and then a couple of the auctions halfway through the auction. I panicked and said I just don't have enough. Good players. And now I have to start over spending on average players. So I do like to get a star too early on. I got to make sure I have saves and stolen bases. You don't wanna be chasing that later on. I have to spend an extra ten dollars on somebody like now Smith who's good, but isn't deserving of like say thirty dollars in an auction. You had a guy like that in the NFL and labor. Remember, we were talking about this a steals guy went for an a crazy high price. It was like a mediocre middle. Infielder. Yes. I can't remember who it was. But I overspent for stolen bases last year. Because I just it's not that it wasn't prepared. It's just I didn't like the prices on any of the steals guys. So I wasn't bidding on them. And then I looked at my list. I was like there's no sales guys left, and you're stuck, you know, spending an extra five dollars on Cesar Hernandez who doesn't run enough? So. Yeah. I'll be active. I want to say I might be active early because I want to make sure I get a good base of some town and. And then take it from there. One thing I've noticed real quick because I was in this person's shoes relatively recently. I only did my first auction draft three years ago and for for baseball in particular. I've actually noticed psychologically that you can get bargains early because it's once you get to the end of tears that psychologically people start to throw it a little extra cash. A lot of times like you'll find that Harper and. Sorry, trout and bets will Bill for different prices because they were nominated one first and one fifteenth and a lotta times. So when he goes, I goes cheaper. But also like you said like be prepared that you have to trust that number. If you think trout's worth fifty five, and it's just you and one another person going forty one forty two forty three forty four you've heard to go to fifty five because if no one else does that means that you hit the number that you trust. So especially. A major difference between truce tonight when we come to auctions. I'm willing to overspend. If I wanna play like, I'm not saying, he's not, but I'm former more likely if he grades if he grades Dee Gordon at twenty three dollars and the Gordon biddings up to twenty five or twenty six he's not going to keep going. I'm more likely to do that and not necessarily because stolen bases are scarce. And you have to get them. It's just if I really want Anthony ran don't I'll go the extra dollar or two Tristan. I know sometimes you will. But you when you have your spreadsheet, your magical spreadsheet, and you're like, this guy is this much money. Sometimes sometimes you just walk over. But that's the thing. I mean, I bring the spreadsheet which I've I've written about this before has. I mean, it's got ridiculous detail that I collect over the course of the winner, and I'll put notes for guys that I'm gonna make more aggressive bid on if you're coming in with a more basic chichi, which there's nothing wrong with that. If you have simply a pricing list. There's nothing wrong with that. You're much more likely to be flexible, and I can respect that strategy. But for me, it's of like if I'm going to spend all this time, if I'm gonna spend an hour deciding whether Mike trout is really a a forty six dollar and thirty eight cent player versus a forty seven dollar and seventy five cent player I'm going to stick to that number because I put a lot of investment in it in the first place. That's why I kind of stick to I do think I'm going to be a little bit more flexible this season though, I do. All right. What's next? All right. Physio guy ri- wants realistic expectations for Victor robots are this year both from playing time standpoint and expectations for counting numbers in those at bats rookie year, the National League put it on the board. You can get this. We didn't get to this in the first half of the show, but flag Guerrero now I am concerned because that was that the GM who said he he's not ready for the majors because he's only nineteen as he's only not ready because he's nineteen if he was twenty he'd be ready. That's ridiculous. If you're gonna keep Vlad in the minors for two weeks. I don't care. No big deal to the Elston or an eye are stand. Now, they changed into reserve. But. If you're going to keep them in the minors for half the season when needlessly it's a joke. It's just a Joe for not same thing. Robe list is winning the centerfield job assuming that nationals we signed Harper, which are not I project robe less at like twelve homers and thirty two steals and a decent batting average. So to me, that's like what we're saying about modesty in Buxton. But I'm almost more. Sure about robots aren't you? And I think that's fair. Now, I mean roll this has also had some injuries. But I feel like he's a little bit more complete hitter than Byron Buxton, which gives them an advantage that books and doesn't have bucks and just doesn't make contact. So I kind of like where you're going in terms of the player. I just think he's a little bit safer in terms of batting average. And maybe the pops not quite as good as they might be comparable. I'm with you. I think he's he is going to play. I mean, I think he'd have to have a disastrous spring not to be the starting center fielder. I don't see Harper returning. I'd see there being no way of that. And I like the categorical balance, I think role this is a very underrated player in my top one fifty overall. And maybe I'm under ranking. I think you are I have him closer to the top hundred. I think what was happening here is that I'm moving up the stolen base options. A lot more than you do. Just movie VR up like fifteen more spots. Let's not yet. Why am I? So maybe I'm not necessarily overrating these stolen base options. It's just that I've been in a couple of dress. And I'm like, there's not enough someone basis. I don't want Billy Hamilton. I really don't want the Gordon where he's going. I'm okay with VR where he's going love robots where he's going you Evy and Desmond ranked ahead of Victor robos. I'm okay with that. Because I feel pretty good. He'll play enough to steal twenty bases. Right. And you know, he doesn't do a whole lot. I mean, you might hit twenty runs until you're batting average. But there's just not enough stolen bases out there. So in general sense, I've got the stolen base guys ranked ahead of you. I hate leaving drafter auction knowing do not have enough steals saves homers. Strikeouts. Just it's a terrible feeling. But I like the Alexi like the balance, and I totally get that. Where did you move Guerrero down at all based on the news? No, not yet. I don't want to because I still think the. That can't be right. Like he can't mean if log arose in the minor leagues in July come on. That's I mean, look, it's just the baseball thing. It's not criminal or anything like that. But it's it's ridiculous. I mean, he can sit the GM can say whatever he wants. I mean, it's an excuse placed for a label to to start the year in triple A. And it really doesn't matter. What the explanation is. I just don't think he's up in the second week of April. I think I think he's he's down there for like two weeks. That's yeah. I think I think the only change for me is that it's more than two weeks if he's ordinary in the first two weeks in AAA then they will just say, oh, I'm going to buy another week or two. Yeah. Otherwise, I'm totally with him. Yeah. I'll agree with that. But I'll be honestly in the drifts. I've done I won't take flat and round three or four. If my first couple picks are injury risks. Or if I have a pitcher, maybe you know, what I mean? Kind of depends a little bit on what the basis of my what the rocks on my team. All right. That's fair Kershaw and Blad it's too. That's already too much risk. I had an an I mean, this is I guess I'm throwing a another question here really for hash Browns. But I got tweeted about the Clayton Kershaw ranking. And it was that if I don't even feel confident and comfortable and taking him as my number twenty starting pitcher, why Rankin their rank and where I'm going to take him. Well, right now to be honest with you, I don't want to drop them at all. But I can't just delete Clayton Kershaw from my sheet because that's that's not realistic, and it's not helpful. But it's a good point though, if I'm not gonna take Christian yelich where I Rankin why do I rank them because aren't there a couple of days where a situation is fluid, and you genuinely don't know where to place the player, and you've got to have him from rankings perspective. I've got to have him from a cheese perspective where I think he'd be. You know, we we we go through that with quarterbacks and fantasy football. I'm not taking Aaron Rodgers around three. You're you're so you're in labor. Well, we're probably not going to get an answer before Sunday. So his ranking his price is going to remain waiting. I'm not I'm just not going to bid on social if he stopped with five you're gonna pass. No, of course, not. But he's going to go for at least twenty five you know, that I'm not so sure I think that of any player right now, his is the most likely to be variable price and the problem. I have today is we have to place a specific sale price on them. Last year was the guy you remember what the price? Yes. It was David Craig sold for it's too much risk. You know, it's the same reason why I didn't bid on Jake Arrieta and labor NL last year. And then two days later, a guy, we know. Well, how good price even though he didn't have a good season. He actually probably lost money on that. But at the time we thought, wow, that's a bargain. David Perez, actually, two years ago. It was it was twenty seventeen he sold for fourteen dollars. Did he earn more than that though? The earn three dollars thirty five cents. That's the. Yeah. He was worse. So like there's risk here for for numbers to not just health and to be clear, I was bailing out at six dollars on David price that your I remember at the table thinking that was the price. I had them Kershaw might be eight for me by Sunday. He might have twenty two I've ever I don't think I've ever even been on Kercheval in labor. I just I know him not going to get them. I don't wanna take that chance. I'll bet on sherzer. You know, I will. But there's a scenario by which based on what you got. And when Kershaw comes out in the auction. Let's say it's late, and you feel really good about the eight players you've already bought and Kershaw stalls at ten bucks. Aren't you going to think about it? I'll think about it. But I can't imagine. It's. Can't get another another question here. What else are we sure Shane wants to know if you have any interest in a lead misdee- as deep performance issue. Not really. I mean, the problem is we already know he's the more. When Gonzales except I think play less, right? I mean, they got a starting infield. And he ain't in. So how is he how do we know lead misdee- is going to bat three hundred times? I don't think we know that I happen to like Tyler white. I think bregman stay healthy. I think Korea healthy enough to to have an outfield. Now, he is a he is a zobrist more when Gonzales type who can play other spots. But this case, I worry he doesn't get more than three hundred. And I think that's fair. And I like the brought up white because that's the very first thing. I thought it was that Twitter you like people do not like Tyler white. Yeah. I mean, it's difficult to see other gonna shake out the first base D H, and you know, left field positions. So I guess playing times a little bit of a question. I kind of like Tyler white on a love him. Oh, I like him better than a lead misty s by a lot of frankly, I think the as is they're not so much for Marlin. I think he's the only part that that compares tomorrow in is that they're going to use them at second third and short like they did with Marlin. But he's the emergency backup for injuries to Jose altuve with the slight injuries had last year. Carlos correa. The same at shortstop bregman at third if he doesn't have he's not ready for opening day. And you know, the worst case scenario, I I've got him a three dollars AOL only player. So that sounds about right. Okay. What else we got one more question here? You has spent a lotta time on Buxton today. So you've seen it from him before he's had a good season. Eric you've got an interesting for that matter. You've got roughly fifty spots between Illinois haven't has and Buxton. If I told you at five six rounds between the two who you beckon. You got to tell us the direction. You say you've got a balanced confer speed, obviously after ten players. Like, which is the one both available around fifteen. I'll tell you always you always go you guys both of them ranked roughly five rounds earlier. So which bargain, do you like more Eli or five rounds later for Buxton, FOX? As a bargain. I mean, I wrote before the cursor thing on Monday that Bumgarner is a better value pick than Kershaw must. I love Bumgarner. But he's a better value pick. And then obviously, the news came out that made it even greater I don't know of always playing an April. It might be July. I want to take a chance book books books and didn't feel basis I wouldn't be arguing for them. But I think he can I think it can still thirty basis. So it's ultimately for me to price it at three dollars difference in the nail only league. But there's a lot more risk of of lack of playing. Well, I don't know if it's a lot. There's there's greater risk that Jimenez doesn't get the played appearances. Buxton does Buxton's probably a better bargain. You know, if he if he didn't start off with a couple of long home runs, we might not even be talking about this. But I feel like I would have anyway. But I can't say for sure I just when I look back at last year's ADP Leonova this. That's why I wrote the story today. I what changed what's changed with this guy. Why all of a sudden do we not like why is Kris Bryant going thirty spots later than last year. What changed his shoulders healthy? Now. I think so what changed that's my thinking. And with Buxton it's the same thinking what change law season, assuming health which you can't with him. But well, what did change for Buxton is that he made less contact on pitches on the strike zone. You bet a fifty times in the majors tristen that I'm not taking what you just said as anything he barely played it could it could attach to the injury. I'm not going to deny that it could. I'm just saying you don't have enough of a sample size offer Byron Buxton's April last year to say anything he padded nine. Four times. I don't buy. Yeah. But I mean, the fact that he missed all the time dealt with the injuries is the negative. Well, that's that's concerning. It's very disconcerting this this ended up being the Byron Buxton show. And I don't I don't think he's going to. I don't know if he's going to be a top hundred fantasy option this season. But I think he could be and I don't think enough people are thinking about it that way we are done for today. Thank you so much listening like like, we said earlier the vampire league get those tweets in two Kyle our next show is next Wednesday, maybe one ounce who's on it in the league. Then thank you so much to Kyle soppe handling double duty as our producer and top researcher and to Leo how was well. And and have a shadow as well to our old producer, Anthony collateral. You'd get well soon, buddy. We're rooting for you that is offered today. Enjoy your baseball and spring training. We'll be back in a week and have an awesome. Bam par. Theme song for the fantasy. Focus was created in performed by Eric Hutchinson. Checkout. More of his music at Eric Hutchinson dot com. Thank you. For listening to the fantasy focus for more great podcasts. Log onto the I tunes music store or pod center at ESPN radio dot com.

Byron buxton baseball Andrew Benintendi Eric era Clayton Kershaw Bryce Harper Kyle soppe Manny Machado ESPN dodgers GM Anthony Dominguez Marlin Gonzales Josh hater Buxton Josh Mike trout Aaron Rodgers football yelich
EP.96 - CHARLOTTE CHURCH

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:08:35 hr | 1 year ago

EP.96 - CHARLOTTE CHURCH

"Gye cost been. Now you out that podcast out and started listening. I took my micro and bounce human folk, then I recalled it all the noises while. I his Boxster nine. I want you to joy. That's the. Hey. Are you doing podcasts? My name's Adam Buxton. I'm the host of this have podcast. Thank you very much for joining me. It's a beautiful day in early June twenty nineteen. I'm being dwarfed by the wheat. I'm pretty sure it's weet with dealing with here. And it doesn't take much to dwarf buckles. But it is unbelievable how this stuff springs up. And that's the end of week news. So look, let me tell you about podcast, number ninety five which features a compensation with the Welsh singer Charlotte church, Charlotte facts, Charlotte, is currently aged thirty three. In fact, we met on her thirty third birthday in February of this year, two thousand nineteen Charlotte's musical break came, when she was just eleven and she caused a sensation when she sang Andrew Lloyd Webber's P A as sue over the telephone on the TV show this morning in nineteen Ninety-seven, and that was followed by a performance on itv's big big talent show, hosted by Jonathan Ross that same year. It didn't take long before Charlotte was signed, and in nineteen Ninety-Eight voice of angel. Her debut album was a hit around the world. Number one on the British classical crossover charts after three. Further albums that featured classical music, as well as opera jazz and show tunes a nineteen year old Charlotte released, straight ahead, pulp album in two thousand and five that was called tissues and issues. Oh, I remember making some great comments about that at the time in two thousand nine Charlotte second child was born and the following year. She released her sixth studio album back to scratch the twenty tens of seen Charlotte. Release more left field music in the form of four EP's. And in that same period. Charlotte has lent her voice to a variety of causes including the Leveson inquiry into a legal phone hacking by news. International in twenty eleven speaking out against institutional sexism in the music industry, during her John peel, lecture, twenty thirteen and protesting with Greenpeace against the shell oil, company's activities in the Arctic in twenty fifteen Mike conversation with Charlotte included, some. Fought chat fairly are not much. Don't worry. Some presence, Charlotte's plans to help build a democratic school, Mike complaints about having to upgrade apps, even though I realized afterwards that the Adam Buxton app might need up grading soon, so I can fuck off and we talked about Charlotte's megastar years, and the pressure on her from tabloid media at the height of her celebrity in the ninety s but I started by setting up the mics and putting the fluffy covers on the little road. N T five microphones. I use. I'm not sponsored by the some people, sometimes ask me, what kind of Mike say us and Charlotte seem to find the, the fluffy might covers delightful as you will hear. And as you will also hear then confidently used the word pluses, which I always thought just described popping sounds, but his the actual definition of close of infinite IX, the basic pluses in English. And per as well as good and Burr. Cives just saving fact checking center, but it work which is not to say that they won't be other things in the podcast that I get wrong as I always do. But you know that's the nature of the rambling chat back at the end for tiny bit more awful. But right now, let's go to church. Two. These little drum mics every direction. Yeah. You go the fluffy tail to mitigate the PLO situation. Plo Cives, PLO Cives, you must come across the world of PLO Cives before, that's just another word for instead of saying popping. Yeah. Cives or words that have per sands in them, and will create popping, are you might Queen. No no into your gear not into right. It's so much so that I've got three ten knock here. I joined in with the you know, the texter really rather late. I didn't have my own Email address, Antill two thousand twelve. Oh. Really? What were you doing before then return? Oh. Phone calls. Oh, yeah. People on on the phone. And yeah. And then a couple of years afterwards, then I got a Facebook account and Twitter and all that jazz and then about a year ago, I really felt the digital addiction, creeping up on me. And what happened a year ago to make that happen? I don't think that anything in my life, specifically made it happen. It was just the I just found myself constantly checking my phone, right? Okay. All the live long day. And in a way it was there's just something so empty in it. Unlike the would be okay, explains it. She says that being on Facebook too long, it's like having to junk food burgers. And you just feel empty a bit gross after. It's. Yeah. It's, it's seldom defying yeah. You seldom come away from thinking that was a good sixty minutes, well-spent. I learned a lot about human rights now. I mean, it is sometimes totally I went completely the other way. And also, I mean, really it was that the kids would be like, oh, mommy, can we do this. Can you do that might be like, hang on hang on? I'm just I'm just doing this and just doing this. And then I was like this is ridiculous. This is stop. And so then I got three three ten. And it was just like all of the white noise fallaway, and then it was just like I could hear and I could see everything again, and it was just low explain what thirty three ten is. I don't know. It's, it's an old fashioned Makia that they brought out the new ones with snake and all that. Okay. It rings on a texts me you can't get on the internet. But it's like a dialup modem. So and so. And what was swallowing up, most of your time, sort of checking Email, or going online, and tweeting and things like that. I think it's just a bit of everything. Right. Okay. It was a bit of compulsive. Checking is thing, isn't it? What is it? It's wanting to just get little endorphin hits from the idea that maybe someone is thinking about, you realize that you I don't know. I'm guessing feeling as if you're a member in my dad was nearing the end a few weeks from his death. One of the things he said, when he was in a bit of a drug Hayes, on cancer medication was. A relevant. I feel relevant. And I think that's one of the things you get just with old age. You don't need to be dying necessarily. Yeah. I think that's sort of encroaching feeling of relevance, that the world is no longer interested in you, and you don't really belong to it or it to you, you know what I mean. Yeah. Absolutely. I think I think you feel that you're not maybe aware of it when you're younger but it's there that dread of relevance, just grows right in the internet. This just like check if you relevance. Relevance check chunk in money and bought it gives us shit. Have been relevant five minutes ago. But what about now check what about now? Now, now, it's right. Yeah. The maybe maybe something in the, and then, of course, I got a bit evangelical about it, and just annoyed the shit out of everybody around me. It's like people who give up smoking. Yeah. Which I've also done Mason, right? So I'm just I'm just a. Self righteous. Made in the ass. But now I'm starting to think what that was when the full and now I remember what it is to live without this constant connective. It's easy and a bit more head space. I think part of it is, well, was the willed seems to be go into shit so much that nine a Brexit way. But it was like I want to go back. I wanna go back to sort of simpler time when we can speak to each other, and have some sort of relationships and emotional connections, which is in just through devices. I was sort of getting a bit not prepping. But just a bit community, like Ryan guys should, we start thinking about this, because I think about the end times about the end times, and possibly building liberty commune and. Bomb shelter. Not really bomb shelter not into bomb shelters. If there's going to be a bomb that we are that's that's going to be too hard. I mean, I don't find living in the aftermath of go really good bombshell, you reckon. Oh, if you go in, I thought about it. That's on my birthday list at my Nisha day in June, gray when is your birthday my bet they? I did know that. She'll I sing you the standard. Happy birthday all my birthday. So I would love your birthday sound birth daytime, it's birthday time. It's time for your birthday today. Oh, yes, I'm staring right at Charlotte and she's smiling, but daytime have people daytime to fail to celebrate would be a horrible crime. Your name is Charlotte. I brought you a gift actually. Do have some gifts for Charlotte to celebrate. The fact you're still ally. You came out all of woman, or possibly a tube, and ever since that day you have survived. Well done. Thank you. And the song goes on for another five minutes. Okay. So I'm not going to sing the whole thing. That's cool. Birthday time. That's one of the songs Joe back on BBC six music would challenge each other to write songs, occasionally, and one week, we had to write a new birthday song to replace happy birthday, great and that was my one but happy birthday. Thirty three you are the may not feel. I feel so of because I've had a mod life. I feel quite old and quite young. So I feel like older the my age. I feel like I'm a bio, sixty in my mind packed. John pox. But then also I'm quite childish. I'm really not very sophisticated. I still love farting and fought jokes news coming your away. Well, maybe we'll start with the world of smells in general. Yeah. So you'll first gift is this, it is the little box of sleep. And actually, this is a gift from my wife, I so lovely. Did it? 'cause I'm embarrassed to catch phrase. And I know a lot of people that don't like it. I almost is it going to be either meal you this is lovely to Ceram the Roma therapy, little box of sleep box of sleep. Simple steps to feel your best. It's three little cylinders of stink. Stink for your pulse points. That's right. Temples neck and behind the ears can also be used on the wrists. I can think of another pulse point. But they don't mention that one. Do you want to just try one, which one are you going for? To comforts? That's a blend of bergamot cardamon Lang Lang pronounce it. Alang alang. Yeah. You langey line, which wraps you in a blanket of serenity. What is your Lang Lang flower, isn't it? I don't know. I think it's an exotic flower I'm really get into my plants. Are you? One thing, that's a gift that age brings suddenly realizing the actually things like gardening, which see just about the most boring thing you could ever imagine. When you're younger great so great this smells really delightful. Does it? Yeah. I think that's Netflix. It's all right. I'm feeling more comfortable each net. Are you wrapped in a blanket of serenity? I'm germany. That's probably the line. Dump generally in my slippers wrapped in Lancashire. I am such a creature of comfort. How are you with? Tiff less pleasant smells like farts and thoughts again, I think, just gifts from the gods to be on this. I think the smells of gray thing is really interesting. Funny. It's so funny, but other grow smells. I'm not so sure just thinking when I was at school, there was a guy used to smell underneath his watch the whole time. Expression. Hanging body odor. I do find fascinating and also it sparks such memories. If your own body odor. No, I'm thinking about my bumpy, particularly my Granddad. Okay. He's got a really specific B O smile. But it is mostly a lot of it is cigarettes, and plastic, 'cause he's a plaster. Okay. He was a master plaster that just immediately makes me think my bumpy. Yeah. I mean, overpowering be oh stench, maybe wouldn't be out for the bit of a mild funk. Especially on a woman like this is my personal preference. But I would RAV a woman with a bit of a sort of funky. Sweat thing going on than someone who was very over perfume. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. No preference. I'm not costing Spurs on either of those. And sometimes a little bit of both is quite nice. Then key sweet. Sweat deadly. Time though, I couldn't really smell really. Yeah. My mom has absolutely. No census mile. And when I was younger into my teenage hood, I think, maybe when I became a mother, my, my sense of smell got much better. But before then it was quite limited. So actually, this is this is a reasonably new sense for me. You a big smoker. Yes. I mean it definitely definitely you can notice the difference almost immediately. If you stop smoking do smell a lot the start at this year. I stopped smoke game room and straightway everything was much haste and everything was like, why does come back pretty slick building? It's time for some more gifts. Here we go. I got you a Adam Buxton podcast. Let's get ready to ramble mug. Oh, that's so lovely people from. A website. Thank you so much this, how Rosie looks no no. She's not blue. She's not blue. That's a great design by super talented artists, Luke Dros too, but. Is not I would say particularly accurate on the visual side. Right. It's very much a cartoon version of us both. It's delightful. Thank you, very much, because, you know, I am a huge fan of this podcast. Thanks very much is my favorite podcasts. Wow. Thank you. And I do feel like as I said, in my Twitter message to you in touch, or go to direct message very excited. I invited myself on the show. Thank you very much for having me. But yeah, I feel like this something about your style of chat. Maybe it's just you are which is very calming ochre, and I think this thing about it, which is that the world is so officiant. Everything is so run from efficiency, and this is just not that. This thing really, really wonderful. No. This is very much a homemade effort, and people get quite annoyed. Like at the moment. I'm talking to you in February of twenty nineteen and I'm on a bit of a break trying to finish writing a book and the podcast doesn't return as I said, in the last podcast at Christmas with Joe, which seemed a lot of people would here. But I guess they didn't listen to the end I said, we'll be back in April twenty nine hundred but people just tweet me the whole time. What do you do? What do you have to let you lazy? Stupid. Lazy. Man. What are you doing? I think they mean it in a nice way, generally. But sometimes they do seem quite irritated. And what I'm doing Paul trying to write the book is. I'm living my boring life to the best of my abilities with my family, while I still have them. Absolutely. And I think that when you say fish inside I feel like maybe you mean. Yes, that failing that a lot of people have that is exacerbated by social media at cetera that they should always be working on project me and they should be influencing, and they should be other ties ING, and they should be driving people towards what they're doing next and. Exactly exhausting. I would do it. Maybe if I was younger, I didn't have children. Well, I I'm going to get back into that world, are you? I'm gonna I'm gonna get a smartphone again. Why because you're good. Because you've got a new project coming up, you want people to about. It's because I've got a new project coming up also, I'm trying to build a school. I am on. It is so far, the most creative process, I have ever been a part of which he's brilliant kind of school a free to attend democratic school in South Wales that the kids built themselves. That's I mean, no disrespect if the kids who built it themselves this gonna be a health and safety issue. There are going to be enough health and safety issues. But I'm working with a great social enterprise. How'd you mean the kids who built it themselves, and we haven't started yet? But the idea is that there's lots of old fashioned sustainable building that you can do, which is a lot to do with it. It's like building Klay houses really? Yes. Oh, great. Social enterprise swans. I'm working with the down to earth project, and they work with kids who on in education, people who have traumatic brain injuries people with mental health issues and they build these beautiful structures. Completely energy water sustainable at a lot of them are for education or how I think they're doing some social housing as well. They're pretty and so they can help us to figure out how to Bill the school with kids. And the idea is, is that, you know, as long as is proper risk assessment and health and safety in that in place. Lots of education listed talking about the front that everything is far too safeguarded kids on allowed to take any risk. Everything is sanitized within their environments. They're learning environments, and we don't really learn through that, but also another thing solely misinformation is necessity. So a lot of kids in schools. Particularly secondary schools, don't really understand the relevance, like y. Are they wore is the point? Why are they doing this thing, which they have no connection with? So if you have to build your own learning environment, then that sort of drives, this necessity also through building something together, it's about ownership and collaboration and teamwork. What aspects like practically speaking, while they're going to be doing in the building process, everything from deciding what materials used they will have help from adults as well, but it won't be a gesture all sort of you go build that wall, and then actually knock, it down afterwards because that's what I would do, but no. But want children building. They don't let. They don't learn. But if you teach them how to do it. So part of the idea is as than when they leave us at sixteen seventeen then they take down something that they've built in a right of passage to symbolize the end of their time with us, 'cause lots of research is showing that another thing that was sorely lacking in education is any sense of retool. All right. So passage. So yeah, they'll take down something part of what they built to do that. But, but also to make room for the kids coming through. It sounds quite I've never really heard of anything like that before, is it based on an existing sort of model or an idea. Not really. No. I basically just been honored huge six month research, project go into schools all over the country with amazing practice whether that's from the top private schools to tiny little primaries with amazing practice of just gone and spoken to many people. Possibly can who goliaths in the world of education in thinking, and thought this is what I think we should do. So this, this, this whole idea of construction, and deconstruction so that the kids come in through can then build their own in spaces. But also that school would be constantly adopting then to the newest ideas in technology and sustainable living. And so it's a constant evolution. Where'd you get the teachers and stuff like that from to know yet? Early. Stages city states is exciting. Yes. Great. But also democratic education is really interesting. What's the definition of democratic education in that way? Well the school runs as a democracy. So each of the kids and stuff members kids on adults have an equal vote. It all matters pertaining to the school again asking for trouble possibly, not the more boring stuff night, which energy provided should we go for. But in terms of not doom. And instead just have a very big ball, that would be buckled suggestion. I think that maybe learning physics in a pool or on a trampoline stuff like that it's just like how they so much physics, you could learn pool. You couldn't learn less physics than I did. Got to be on a chump elite movement. I just think that there's really creative ways to teach people stuff, on course we need to certain amount of knowledge, but technology is changing the way that we need to retain information, I e we don't need to really, we need to be able to find information and then synthesized with whatever we want to create. What if it's like Terminator machines, takeover, and Skynet crashes all the computers, we won't have access to anything, and then no one, no anything anymore, just saying what if some science fiction films come true? If some science fiction films, shootout, really, I mean, they are generally just a little ahead of the trend of what actually happens. Little things have just to change my mind, ords actually wanting to be back in the digitals fear that, like while if you wanna make a positive change in the world, which I truly do have to understand this tech. Where free for years. I've been happy being led light really. And just so running away from it and going, I preferred it when we were just biological things, which talk to each other. But it's about doing both would you ever go out to Silicon Valley and hobnob with some of those? Twats with. They wanna give me some money for school apps and twist their great, great guys. But I would say some of them probably are. I'd imagine. So I had a big argument with my brother over the Christmas, period. It wasn't a big one, but it was just a tent suddenly, he's very knowledgeable. And he's a clever guy by gets very defensive, if you start criticizing computer technology, and I started moaning about the fact that I'm sick of having to upgrade, everything, the whole time, I'll have a piece of software, and it'll just stop working, unless I upgraded. But if I upgrade, it certain features that I've come to rely on, we'll the cups elite, or maybe it won't work with another piece of software that I don't want to upgrade, or all this kind of thing, and to me, it seemed like a conspiracy to just keep me buying things, and keep me buying the new version of this, when the old version was perfectly fine. And he's saying no, that's not how it works. You don't understand how the software is constantly developing, and it's very expensive. So they have to keep the money coming in to keep I'm like, they've got lots of money. Yeah. Pretty sure they've got loads. Yes. Sean. They just do it so that I don't keep constantly having to upgrade the other way you could look at it, and don't get me wrong like it is capitalism, but it's sort of most pretending to be sort of preachy and changing the world. But essentially, there's a lot of people making a shitload of profit with a phenomenal amount of power far more power than any government in the history of the world has ever has. Concentrated to these few people working out of Silicon Valley. However, in another way. You by buying on of these products are, it's almost like investing in Nassir during the space race. Right. You're pushing forward human advancement. You know whether that's a good thing or not as is yet to be seeing your. I mean, I'm not one of these people that necessarily wants to go back to the stone age, just because it would be simpler. Because I do think progress, probably on the whole it's been a good thing for the lives of most people. I think it's just happening a such a rate now that it's it's uncomfortable isn't it? Sometimes where do you think is going, where do what? Well, I'm glad you asked me show because I got a very clear and extremely accurate idea. Now I've got no clue I feel broadly speaking, that were very much, socially speaking in the grip of this online revolution, which is proving to be strenuous and painful to adjust to the way that we treat each other online, and I feel as if were gradually heading in the right direction. You know, people are collectively alarmed. By some of the more accessible, and unpleasant things that we'll say and do to each other online. And I think most of us are agreed that actually, we've got to be a little gentler and kinder, as we would be in real life. Hopefully. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So I think that's one one thing. But, you know, I've got a fairly woolly faith in humanity. And in the positive aspects of technology that maybe a lot of the more serious problems in the world might be solved. Not to say that there's always going to be shit going wrong, isn't there, of course. Yeah, it feels very transformational. You know, like Trump, I mean who needs to fucking speak anymore about Trump, but really, I mean, this is a lot of good ideas. It's one hell of a lesson. Yeah. You know, maybe if there is a positive way to look at it. Yeah. You feel as if we're in the dip. And it has to swing back the other way. Let's say find someone worse. Oh, gosh. It'll be like, oh you remember the good old days. From was into God's anyway. Painting. Right. Make me order. You'll. How are you just in general with talking about the past? I'm Craig all learning experiences at, you know what I really think that part of the reason I managed to stay sane throughout my whole. Life is through doing interviews. It's sort of like a really public therapy. Because I didn't know very much about, you really apart from the very obvious stuff stuff that people couldn't avoid, you know, I do remember, you aged eleven in ninety seven year. Yeah. The days. Yeah. Obviously, meaning pie of Jesus. I of teasers, teases pi pi tasty is the sequel to amazing cakes. Okay. How? And I'm my dad thought you were just terrific. He always loved child prodigies in that way. People that just had beautiful. Beautiful voices. Yeah. He was not. I think there was a lot of parents especially whose hearts just melted. I guess, because when you get a bit older, you're so used to seeing children who hate you and hate adulthood, and hate the world and won a rebel. That's generally the version of youth that get foisted upon you tell your old specially by a kind of moral panic, obsessed media and angel. I think we can we can agree on? Then lots lots of parents and grandparents, you know, I just I felt like an extended family member to them somehow and especially now because I've been in the public eye for twenty odd years. So the way that people speak to me when they see me is so familiar. I'll be anywhere in the supermarket whatever, and people like I obey you with kids. Great. And it's really sweet it's really lovely. I think people do think of me. Extended family member. Yeah. Have you ever deconstructed those years with L A Jones and talked about shared experiences of being in that position? Not really. I have in once or twice. Jala Iman zoo. Every time I met him, I was actually quite so in those occasions, which wasn't very regular at this point. But yeah, he was a hell of a party had. But no, I never really spoke to him about that source death. But also I kept myself to myself a lot. I used to go back to Cardiff. I'd love to come visit London, but I saw societas it with work and paparazzi. And so I didn't really know any of the famous people. I wasn't in the source, celeb- network or anything like that. I choose to burger often be with my girls, I went to school with, and we all just be sky is fuck all in the streets card. But you were in between those times going out and meeting, the Queen yet the Prince Charles, the prince channel the pope, the pope to presidents to presidents, which presidents, did you hang out with Lynton? Yep. Cutler times. And I sign up Bush's inauguration Chiu, which is very. Odd. There was so many protests on the day. So we were all best in, and I was sat next to Kelsey grammer Frazier. And I absolutely loved Frazier, like I'd stay on every Friday. My bumpy would bring fishing ships. I'd have a half of my Nana. Strongbow and we'd watch Frazier. That was like our throwing. Totally. Oh, okay. And that was so like, yeah, from about eleven twelve what we do. So I was so excited to me, Dr Frazier crane such a deck. See god. He was awful. I just up himself. Yes. I mean obviously he was there in support President Bush, which now one I was fourteen. Knighted Naveh, kluber politics, just Sony said, this was the inauguration, essentially, so for me. I didn't have a clue by the politics. But now looking back in hindsight. He was supporting president. But yeah, he was just system real douche which was really upsetting. But did that time I met Mohammad-Ali remember at the White House, I met Mohammad-Ali, which is amazing? Yeah. President Bush he was such an odd man from far away. Because his, his is that really saw just Brown and so friendly ish. You get close. They ask steel gray. He just looks completely vacant and he asked me, what state Wales was in. Just thought to this country, his own country, next to England. Yes. So they were marred experiences, but in a way because I was so young. And so nonchalant specially when I was a teenager like you think this is normal one ever boring. I just wanna be at home. Trying to find some way to smoke. So thing also aged eleven. No. It's about fifteen okay? But I didn't David Bowie as well way. I met him at the MTV awards in New York. So I, I was just about fourteen and I was unbelievably excited to be at the MTV awards. My mom and dad traveled with me, but it was just my mom not times. We don't only get two tickets. And of course, like imagine being fourteen get into go to this amazing music awards cermony with your mother. My days. So she was just so embarrassing, and so an cool anyway. So then we saw David Bowie mean we was, but I didn't have any sort of appreciation fame or you know, his music my mother slight loss to shit. And she was like she other disposable camera on a she was going to go up and meet him. Are you have a photo with them? You've got what I want to. I want to go and see press the rhymes and so is so and so in the people that I love, but anyway, says she took me up to him and asked if we could have voted together, and I remember just catching sight of a man, and she just looked like the mask of not. So I was completely disinterested. In David Bowie and just completely transfixed by man and my mother was she was so pleased. So to, to have met him though when he was really sweet. Really kind was this. Maybe two thousand right. Okay. Yeah. But then obviously since then we're not necessarily office sleeper. I have developed to love music. I'm trying to picture what he would have looked like around that time short so flip flipped over her skinny jeans. Oh, yes, I remember exactly. Wow, that's extrordinary. Do you still have that photograph that graph? And he saw of copy down next to me. Yeah, it's lovely. I wish like like so much of that time, I wish I would have had a understanding of the gravitas. Yeah. Was there anyone you met who you did think? Wow. This is cool. Just people in music that I loved really people like Jill Scott, who at the Grammys when I was fifteen and I just couldn't I just couldn't speak to I absolutely love. Jill Scott still now Erica. Do. Who else are? We have some amazing amazing times in LA. And if you went to this amazing charity bowl, where Liz Taylor was there in Sydney. Partiers Gregory Peck Harrison Ford, like just crazy, Hollywood's loyalty, old school and. Yeah. Me my, my dad's, and we was so green around the is just like proper working class common slightly. Scotty family from South Wales, just be input into these amazing situations. So it was really, really quite a journey for us all the. Yeah. We got some Brennan, people, I remember my mother, there's a songwriter really famous article David foster, we went to his Malibu mansion, this light for a million dollar Malibu mansion. And at the time he'd written the prayer, and I was singing the pray with Josh. And so we've been warned that if you go to Foster's house, then you've gotta sing Pius, EPA, so me and Georgia. There has been this amazing dinner with Bob strikes in Barry Manilow, Paul Anka, who wrote my way and all of these. Yeah. Luminaries and my might dad. So I got up and sign and Josh got up and sign these other people sing as well, when Pauline could got up and sang my way, but he changed all of the lyrics, and then my dad was next to by Manilow, and Barry, I was saying to my dad. I'm not singing, unless that bitch, things talking about baba strikes about, you know, not main Pam Bob in and she was just mental. Super new raw take and. Hearts, to my dad now by this juncture, drinking, like five thousand dollars bottles of wine, so they're getting pretty well oiled. My mother sat there, I'm gonna conversation Barbara. And then, by this juncture, I'm just like there's nothing here for me. There's nothing here for me. I want to go back to the hotel, whatever. Lympstone Dibaba Streisand. And she's like our Charlotte sings when he oh songs Barbara down. I can do it don't stop. Maybe it's our she thinks domain in my parades. And Bob do you do. See one of my sons. I want to Barbara Guan sing to pop, but she lives win you by sing domain. Marie for Bob strays, and she didn't seem very impressed to be honest, and it was all the bit of anti-climax. Extrordinary were you? Did you feel uncomfortable? I felt mostly uncomfortable because I was a teenager. Of course. I know there was just the general level of discomfort that was going on, right. Yeah. And then being in manned, situations it was it wasn't adventure as well, though, when we travel, the world's went South America in Japan, Australia, like all over the world, did you ever get a chance to just enjoy and appreciate it? Yes. Absolutely. There was one time I think it was my birthday and we were in Brazil, and they closed down. A water park for me office, I didn't ask, nobody had asked, but to put this in context at this point, your, the number one artist your album has just totally swept the board is that the first album or was there, a couple of that did their they were the first album was voice of an angel was the one that did really, well sold six million worldwide and blah, blah. Then yeah, there's a couple of albums after that my sort of plateau, then into my greatest hits sixteen. Yes, you were internationally successful, though, that was the thing wasn't it. So it was it was not just a British phenomenon very well known everywhere. So you're in Brazil, and they close the waterpark, yet, which was brilliant, obviously, like, oh my gosh. That's fun. You go to private autopart, private park all to myself, and my birthday, which is super spoil. But at the time it was just so did you have any power, there was it just you and your is me too ISM moment? I God, how weird very strange. It was such an education just go into different countries. And that was the part of it. I loved ridi. I loved the singing and singing with orchestras and all latch is, but it was the traveling and seeing how people lived in different cultures and that was a serious education and the attention, and did you like that, because that's something that I think probably a lot of children do is to fan. Fantasize about being important in some way like what would it be like if everyone was doing my bidding and doors for me? And the way I see is that I was always pretty much exactly the same pretty chilled pretty calm and just take everything in my stride. I didn't get to excited I never even before big shows or whatever I suppress all any sort of excitement, and I think a lot of that was to put to perform to be able to do the to do on such big world stages. All the time it did teach me a level of composure, and humility maybe. Yeah. But also, I loved people and people were so kind. I mean, sometimes it used to freak me out, 'cause some funds, literally thought I was an angel people thought I'd healed them a lot, however, again, in a way it does teach you humility. Because when you've got somebody next to you. Who was shaking like a leaf because they love you so much. The, you know, they think your this special gone given something you saw have to even though you're like all of a sudden weird, you still have to just be like really lovely to meet you. And I might talk to my best to calm them, but I was probably also an asshole, as well. And I'm definitely in to my parents. When did your holiness years, begin fourteen internist? Absolutely. And then you're in the bizarre, presumably, pretty horrible position of growing up in public with a great deal of scrutiny. Yeah. And this, I've sort of found all this out recently because I said, I was sort of dimly aware of you. But I was the wrong age to really be excited about an angel. I was getting on with my stupid shit, but I do remember things like you voted nice bum lady e. E unity, fifteen sixteen sixteen. I was sixteen. It wasn't called mice spun lady. But it was really. The rear of the year. I suppose at that time I was just sixteen year old girl who thought that was quite flattering also like my fame. So accepted the award whereas there was also a lot of undercurrent of nastiness. There was a countdown to lose my gin source staff, there was stuff that was really uncomfortable. However, I didn't give a shit because all I really cared about was my crew down in Cardiff. And you know, who got off with who also pre-internet? Thank goodness. Exactly. You weren't. You could sort of escape it. Absolutely. I mean there was there was paparazzi outside my door every day, four years for like three or four years. And that is so sit of grim and prurient is in it, because it's purely motivated by wins the I enjoy going to tell lane become a woman implies the narrative, and I gave it to him on a play treaty. But, you know it was all the foreign in till child star off the rails, it was perfect. It was a fairytale narrative almost, and because I never wanted to pretend to be anything but honest and open and truthful. Then they had a really easy time of it really. An obviously, we got totally caught up with all the Leveson inquiry, because right they were hacking our phones. When did you wear of that than that your phone being hacked when I was about twenty people running up ration- motormen the initial police investigation? They came to us and said, oh, these been a lot of illegal information stored on new, but it wasn't about phone hacking at that point. So I suppose, what would just went phone hacking became known about and some lawyers contacted us and said you wanna be a part of this Leveson inquiry. You'll have to get up in court and you'll have to give your testimony and stuff. And so that was pretty scary. But we had felt so wronged, they was such injustice, there for so many years. And my family had suffered hardcore at the hands of the press. None of it was in the public interest. It was all about money and salacious gossip and shit. And it was really damaging do remember documentary on channel four and around. In two thousand and five or something. Yeah, they had a psychologist on there and they had the manager of blazing squad, and they dug up some of your old school friends and things like that. And it was all just quite a mean spirited take away of painting, a picture of your mother, as very controlling person who was living out, her own fantasies of stardom, you and all that back, then I remember it felt like the tail end of kind of frenzy of quite tabloid each IPE celebrity documentaries, that would get made about anyone who is in the public eye. And there was also an atmosphere of really vicious and thinking about Jade goody now the way she was treated. Absolutely. You know, not a Saint and responsible of being sort of a -fensive -ly ignorant. Sometimes when it came to her comments about Chipper Shetty on big brother was the big thing. But when that happened, they immediately switch. I rounded on her. They had a cover that said Jade, we hate you. And just like a full on takedown is before that kind of culture of piling onto people and publicly shaming them took hold in social media NIA. It was pioneered by these celebrity MAGS. Yeah. And then they all felt a little shame when j just suddenly got ill and died. Yeah. But it was a strange time. It was a strange time in, you're right. It was particularly vengeful, and I always couldn't read the end to stunned. No, not really what I den wrong. But it seemed like there was something driving, it other than just the narrative other than just, you know, they wanted to put it into these fairytale narrative tombs of the wicked evil mother, who was pushy and this that, and the other and, you know, the drunken child star fallen angel child star and sorts of very simple narratives, but it seemed like there was something behind that. That was a bit bigger. The I couldn't really put my finger on and I still can't now and maybe it's because of where I came from, and I was a woman that I was Gil, maybe it was the I was working class in, you know, I wasn't trying to Sal everything that I I didn't wanna play ball. I thought of myself as a singer, and, and I didn't really play their game, and I didn't get hooked on drugs and sort of have a massive mental breakdown where I wasn't didn't have an eating disorder that I would regularly. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't who I was, and it was all so unpleasant. And particularly the Murdoch papers was so unpleasant that I was just, like I wonder why what's behind this? What is this vitriol, coming for me, and my family, it's just sort of the media at its worst appealing to people's really basest instincts, and you see it, sometimes online sensational. And that's one the papers are going for their appealing to that sort of primitive instinct, just, you know, see people failing. Of course. I mean it's really it's very natural. But I didn't know I suppose that I imagined that people would have a bit more moral authority and responsibility. But they responsibilities a huge thing in our society. And I think because I've been doing so much education recently, I think that responsibility. And introducing responsibility to young people is absolutely essential, and that they want it, and that they can deal with it. And again, that's the way that we learn in the way that we can become, you know, not just tolerant, but and pathetic and start to be able to manage conflicts is, if we feel that sense of responsibility for ourselves and our actions, but also communities and other people. So I'm really interested in children's rights, something's happened in my mind's food. This research project. I've been on where we idea giving kids autonomy over their education would seem to most people to be to the absurd. And of course, they're not ready to the can't deal without, they don't have the capacity until fuck it up when actually study after study, and they're over two thousand democratic schools in the world functioning brilliantly with young people directing their own learning one, the passionate about what they're interest. In south motivation. And I do think that lots of rights have come whether that before I think minorities and women further back, the working classes, but I think the last frontier of is children. So for me, the revolution that I want to see happen. Well, I've Aleutian, let's say. Is to liberate the child and start listening. More to two children are not be such an imposing adult author -tarian force on them all the time. Is that something that you struggled with when you became apparent I mean, because I think most people do you suddenly have to decide I never even thought about it before I had children. And then suddenly it's like oh shit. Am I going to be as you say, bit more authoritarian abound, reset like my dad or am I going to react against that? And go for something a bit more friendly and touchy feely. I should've ping-pong between the two you do in the early years. You have moments where you're like, actually. But this they've gotta learn what's acceptable. And that's not acceptable. So go and stand in that dot room and I don't care if you're crying, and then you feel bad. And you're like no, no, no. This is. I'm a bad parent said, then you're like, okay. Come out here. I love you. Going to ignore that bad thing. You did. It's not the end of the world. And then you think this isn't helpful either, because I'm not giving them any boundaries. They do need to tell him. No, like what's acceptable. And what's not to some degree. Yeah. Absolutely. But I think it's all about an open dialogue all of the time yet. So often I lose my shit with my kids and I show an you know, I it's not productive, but it's about then, you know, saying after it, I'm really sorry, right? I completed my patient, flit week. No, not all. But also, I don't believe in the United front bullshit either. We often think different things as parents, and I think, to see a bit of conflicts, which is resolved doesn't go to a ridiculous place where it's constructive is really important to see you hit a bowel EPA genetics. Not really EPA genetics is really interesting because obviously, we passed on jeans and people express those genes. But the more that you. Express a certain type of babe you're certain, gene, in your life, the more likely it will be to get passed down and expressed. Okay. So it's not just about your genetic makeup. It's also about how you express your genes life. So if you allow yourself to be constantly stressed Eric, maybe that something within your gene pool that's already there. But if you sort of let that continue and get quite loud, the best way is expressed to me, as volume dial. Then it is more likely to express louder in the next generation that make sense by really like that, because it also gives you more of a sense of responsibility about how you compose yourself into of your next of kin as well. Try find really interesting host to someone the other days. Well about the feeling of just being a hypocrite. Sometimes when you're trying to protect them from certain things and talk about what they. Should be doing whatever. And you just feel so nakedly hypocritical when it in so many ways you haven't done those things in your life. And yet here you are saying on should do this new should do that. But actually, my friend was saying it's not really about being hypocritical. If you're a parent, you still have a responsibility to do what you think is right to do what you think is in their best interest. You can't be a one hundred percent shiny example. No, of course however, expectations are really difficult. Yeah. I mean, I'm talking about more obvious things. I mean, my note disrespect my mum, who's great and was a wonderful mom in lots of ways very loving still lovely person. Hi, mom. She doesn't listen to this. Costas. But I wish she had given me a little more guidance on the eating front. For example, she was just like have some more French fancies. Every time we ran out of French fancies, there were more French fancies, and she was either not noticing that I was just gobbling them all on not carrying just likes, French fancies, get some more of them, many people showing listen I'm not saying she was doing it maliciously. And I was glad at the time because I do love. On the other hand, it was just I wish I sort of wish that I'd grown up in an environment, where we would just eating more healthily as a matter, of course. But then also for each successive generation to figure out because they didn't know I grew up on nothing but chicken that you put in the microwave. Sounds microchips. It was hanging. You know, I have vegetables once a week down my Nana is at Sunday lunch, and they were basically Stu by the timer. She'd finished cooking. Least you discovered healthy eating now know the two of. Still, a lot of French francs. He's in. Yeah. Wait continue. Hey, welcome back pod cats. That was Charlotte church. I'm very grateful to Charlotte for her time. And as you may be able to hear I am currently in my nutty room slash recording booth. And the reason for that is that I recorded my out tro yesterday, which you will his shortly. But afterwards I realized that forgotten to thank the venue, that allowed us to record our conversation there. And the name of that venue is to north down a comedy club in kings cross just a few minutes, walk from King's Cross station, and it's a terrific small comedy club and space for higher, where I've done several very enjoyable work in progress shows over the years, actually, it used to be called the invisible dot when it was under different management. And so I did a lot of shows there. That's where I first met, tash, you and peon valley. And there's always cool up and comers. They're cool young people as well as old. Graha people like myself and more stablest comedians and Stewart lead, warm ups there at some point. And anyway, they get some pretty big names in this check out their website. I've posted a link in the description of this podcast as well as links to one or two things that myself in Charlotte talked about, so thanks, a lot to all the folks to north down much appreciated. Now back to my scintillating out tro link recorded yesterday. By the way, the reason, I'm not just recording another one outside today is that it's there's a hurricane happening, as far as I can tell or at least it's getting ready to go full hurricane. So I'm just skulking in my booth. Here we go. Let's techno, bud blood. Hello. Rosie. Are you doing? She's coveting goose grass come here dopey. Let me get off here. No. Covington baubles mate. Steer clear of bubbles. It's what I told you by his. We head back. I saw a story on the BBC news website this morning, which I think might be one of the most boring inconsequential stories that I've ever seen being passed off, as news. It's cold tourists lucky. Guess cracks safe code on. I try you're welcome to switch off. Now, by the way, this is just a few if you wanna get to sleep. This might be nice for you. Well, though, you'll get woken up by liking subscribe at the end just wanting a Canadian man unlock to safe that had set unopened in a small museum for decades cracking the code on his first try with a lucky guess. All right. So that's mildly impressive, and interesting, but it's downhill from there. Stephen mills was visiting the vermilion heritage museum with his family when he had a go at opening the iron box for a laugh. The museum in the province of Berta had previously tried numerous times to unlock the old safe to no avail numerous times. The safe had not been opened since the late nineteen. Seventies. Wow. That was forty years ago, the museum housed in an old, brick school building hosts a collection on the history of the million a town of just over four thousand people, Mr. mills from fort McMurray. I'll burder was visiting the million with his extended family during a long weekend in may. Says mister mills when we go camping every summer, we've come to learn that every small town. No matter where you go has something to offer. He told the BBC okay, this is news. So the family brought the children to see the museum and was given a tour by volunteer. Tom Kibble white. One of the exhibits was a safe that had originally been in the town's Brunswick hotel, which had opened in nineteen. Oh, six. The safe itself is believed to have been bought in nineteen o seven that's when the safe was bored over one hundred years ago. It's one hundred year old safe. Can you imagine it was donated to the museum in the early nineteen nineties after the hotel, changed ownership and was renovated? They don't go into it. But imagine what the renovations included could have been painting. Little bit of. Hammering. Coyness work. I don't know Mr. milled said, when they were shown the safe, the whole family was quote, intrigued babies in us. So how did he do it right now? We're getting to the exciting part. How did he open the safe on his first try says Mr. mills, I said to Mr. Kibble white? That's a crazy time capsule. You don't even know what's in it. He noticed the dial numbers ran from zero to sixty and decided to try twenty Fourty sixty. I tried the handle, and it went he said, I could tell it wasn't opened for a long time, because some dust fell out from the locking mechanism, Mr. Kibble white told the BBC it was a thrill when he turned and saw the door. Swing open. So what was in the safe? It contained an old page. Sheet and part of a restaurant order. Pad dating from the late, nineteen seventies, the pad included receipts for mushroom burger for one dollar fifty in Canadian, money, brackets, one dollar twelve in US dollars or fifty nine British Pence. They have no value. Really? But they are of great interest to us. It gives us a little idea of what the places were like in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven and nineteen Seventy-eight said, Mr. Kibble white. Yes. That's an exciting insight into that long, forgotten period of history. When it turns out, people, sometimes had mushroom, burgers, and they were so much cheaper than they are now. But the article doesn't finish their new the next section is called what are the chances? The odds of misdemeanor correctly guessing the combination. Are pretty long says the university of Toronto's, Jeffrey Rosenthal, author of knock on wood luck chance. And the meaning of everything. He calculated the chance of correctly guessing the combination on one. Try as one in two hundred and sixteen thousand calculation assumed the safe numbers, actually ran from one to sixty but he noted that some combination locks allow for wiggle room. And if this one had a three digit leeway, Mr. Rosenthal, put the chances, at one in eight thousand which is still says Mr. Rosenthal, a small chance, the fact that the combination was in a specific patent and did not appear to be a random combination of numbers could also factor in the calculation of the odds. He added making the chance of getting it right? The first time bigger but still small. That's where it ends. I didn't even read the whole article, by the way. Okay. Liam now. Thanks very much indeed, to Anika Meyson for her conversation. Edit work on this episode much it Annika and thanks ever to shame. Murph you Mitchell for his production support, thanks day cost. And until the next time, please remember I love you.

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EP.84 - ROISIN CONATY

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:09:14 hr | 2 years ago

EP.84 - ROISIN CONATY

"Mall. Gye blood cost been now, you out that podcast out and started listening. I took my micro and found some human folk, then I recalled it all the noises while these folks. I name as at Buxton. I want you to joy, that's the bad. Hey, how you doing podcasts at in Buxton here. I'm out for a walk on a beautiful mid November day in twenty eight teen. The sun is shining brightly it's cold, but the sky is very blue. Not a cloud in sight. And just a few hours ago. I was walking with Rosie out here yesterday afternoon, and it couldn't have been more different oppressively gray skies as if all the light and joy had been vacuumed out of the world. But now, it's really really nice and the problems of the world seem far away. How's your week being Rosie? I've done a satirical song about Brexit can play no way gone cold done a Pooh on the backstop, right? Look rosy. This isn't radio for okay? This is a forum for high brow conversational discussion chat while you're trying to suppress my freedom of speech. I'm not. All right. You can play it at the end of the podcast. Okay. Okay. Facts. For your. All right. See you later. I'm going to tell the listeners about put costs number eighty four which features a rambling conversation with British comedian writer and actor Roshan Conaty roggin started performing stand up age twenty four and seven years later in twenty ten she became only the fifth woman to win the best newcomer award at the Edinburgh. Fringe with her show hero warrior fireman liar. Roche in is now a regular on variety of British TV panel shows and has acted in. Greg Davis is sitcom man down on channel four as well as writing exact producing and starring in her own sitcom game face all about the travails of a struggling actor called Marcella visit link to a little clip of game face in the description of this podcast along with another couple of relevant. Stinky, Linke's for you. I recorded my conversation with Rocio even just a few weeks ago in October at a friend's house in London, and we covered some of my favorite chat topics, including haircuts celebrity encounters TV makeup disasters TV panel show. Trauma, truth, goggles, angry judgmental, ISM and chocolate. But I began by showing Rocio seen my favorite Setsu Matric that sounds like a euphemism. But it isn't here we got. So do you like that Zuma's? I really do. I like to start at the side of the Sassoon peel round in one hit in a long trip. Doing apple almost like long strip until you've just got a what's it called Sima burger? Yes, it's like a skullcap of peel on the top heel. Oh. And one on the bottom he'll off and then you've got a face hugger from alien. I mean that that's what you've got from that. Which is to round zachos hanging down thing in the middle that you got all. Has your day been it's been a k- of running around and bit. I'm writing and sped quite light writing a new series of game face. Yes. Someone's giggled may not. Yeah. And then put myself fringe in writing in finish an episode. You know, they're not supposed to do. And then I basically just did let, you know nuclear front of your hair put on Instagram, but it took me about twenty five minutes because as mad as I am. I don't know what. The front of you guys you get that. So I'm doing everyone. Well, the women is dandruff doesn't come off. And then do this rushing is pulling a big load her hair forward into the air. And now she is curling it my hands with her hands almost like a kind of Elvis co in front of her forehead. And then she is pulling it apart. So it sits there I'm going to hang. I made a really good one last night. But it took me about five minutes. So I've done that. Mike spent quite late because I got involved in Saint if I wanted to get fringe game. Which always whenever you start thinking about fringe is that you always into make change because you say, it's my hair. So that's been. Around K, anything I've ever had a friend. We don't this is really funny to men fringes man fringe can Edinburgh fringe. Short one. Can I say your I mean, my hazardous zoster? It's always been the best hand. Good good hair thinning out now. No, you've got good hair. Yeah. Please. That at one point. I got just the best. Heck when I was about. When was that towards the end of my twenties? I think and I had just met the woman that became my wife, and I went into a random head cut place in Kensington market. Remember Kensington market. Yeah. Yeah. Off Kensington high street to be quite groovy. It was a little maze of tiny stools close and tattoo parlors. Yeah. Exactly exactly that was a haircut place in that. And I went in and it just randomly got like a good. Heck I was sitting short and choppy. So that you could just roughly up in the morning. Do you mean when Harrison Ford short choppy? And he looked really good. Ooh. Look at that. And you way of doing your hair? He looks good. He's handsome. But it was everything came together in that moment. It's never been as good again. And now it's back to being a bit long. And yeah, I've had I've had there's a sadness in getting them. Because you know, why does it have to keep growing? Why can't stay for for everything? Why this moment of just last forever because you know, in three days, it's growing out or the roots showing light your head or you've got roots and blown out of bits. So is that your is the dog bit you'll natural naturally. Nearly like your color any black head. I would say that's raven head. Yeah. Tissue at school, very dog, very dark hair. And then I just played to up. What about have you ever had just like him oh tissue streak? Streak. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't rule it out. I think you'd be good. You'd look good. I mean that looks nice. We'll ready. That I think it's good. I like it. I could tell it's a conversation. You haven't had loan. It's amazing. What to you re around looking for the language out of bits? Outfits. Describing the ns as we say. In the headlined ends is not the ends because stop top. And then they go. I know the it's actually more accurate. Yeah. The last time I saw you was Edgar Wright's birthday party. Yes. And Edgar had a little subterranean room in a fancy restaurant somewhere in the West End, and gal gadoe was there. Wonder woman wonder yes, did you speak to gal gadoe? No. I didn't. I didn't see women. So it was one of those things where it was wasted on may like, you know, in your kid, and then someone goes apart with someone that you loved it loads of friends, but you know. Singer ross. When I mentioned friends kids, this I was wonder woman. I hadn't seen it. So she was wasted on me. Right. So you didn't chat with her. Now. Did you know I would be too frightened? I just thought what can I possibly say? To wonder woman that she is going to find. I mean that is my first problem already is that I'm thinking is wondering. You know, it's entirely my mom. Sure. She's perfectly nice intelligent person who you could talk to about anything that you would talk to any other normal person about. But it was too much. I couldn't deal with it really just thought. But this was I went I mean, she Spanish she's enact she's very famous. She's wonder woman his Ray Sarno Google. But yeah, that thing where I see people making just across the rain, and I think people income quite confident I could never ever go and speak to someone that I didn't know she's Israel. You're quite right. I apologize for my ignorance, you see that would have been I would have gone out and say. You're from Spain. How'd you like Spain tappaz men she'd walk away? Now, imagine if be really polite birthday party that suit with the problem is is you have to be nice to everyone because the guests of the past right? Yeah. It's been a cop or excuse me. You know, you have to. Hey cousin. It could be. So you have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt line. Well, you're vouching everyone at your birthday. That's right. All the you've said, they good the other person. I saw that night was all Landau bloom. I apologized. Edgar about just using your birthday party. Crap. Name dropping exercise Cossack Orlando bloom. The bloom box. I saw him on the stairs, very briefly came. Or check this out. This is just a tidal wave. So I was set with Stephen merchant. Yes. So I hadn't seen for a while. Having a nice talk with him and Orlando bloom suddenly blooms out of the darkness, and he was wearing a kinda groovy sweater. I remember crazy brightly colored geometrical shapes. And I I was thinking, wow, no one in the world could have gotten away with that. Except the bloom box who's very very, handsome and just perfect looking. And he just leaned over as I was talking to Stephen completely interrupted our conversation. And just started speaking Stephen, but in that moment caught himself and just thought oh, hang on. That's rude. And so looked over at me to sit at knowledge sorry to interrupt. And then he looked at me and sort of did a double take because he obviously thought oh hang on. We look for million. But he didn't know who I was which I get quite a bit. Bit. Like, usually people think Seoul from homeland. Yeah. He gave me a weird. I think I I don't think so. But instead because he had been a little bit on the route side. I would say no disrespect. I don't want to fight you. He's definitely would've. It was able to stare at him with impunity. Hysteria. Your parts of the Caribbean. In front of me. And who is he in the Lord of the rings less? Yeah. But imagine how that level of fame must be quite like terrifying to have that level of scrutiny. I think party because you would know every bit you, and then they didn't sit down, you know, that sort of like, yeah, when you become an object. And are they good or bad? We need to know famous people. Good or bad like good or evil, Orlando blue. But you see one every week. Just have loads of evidence that you shift through unac- dotes of maintenance payments person than some at the end go and like like an Uber. Score the NBA. Yeah. That's right. It's terrifying. Evil. You've done live at the all you've done the Apollo. That's going to say now you've done live at the Apollo. How's that walking in front of that crowd? Quite the story. What we have our say. I. I out on stage for about ten minutes to this is for people who don't know to interact live at the Apollo is a huge British stand up showcase on British television. Yes. And so two minutes and you go through the smoke, and it's a big like welcome to that DiPoto in smoking. Now, I'd couple of jobs, you know, gig. This a lot in the last few weeks thought play for the cameras at home, and I can feel the flop sweat and deputy understand the energy in the room when I'm trying not to be worried about it. And then not healing machine rushing being heckled just straight down the lens, but quite manic quite like. Great. And then to the side of me. And there's this command walking across the stage, and he works for the show. But he's looking so slowly, obviously after my sister said he'd been walking across the state about forty seconds and you're doing material. No one knows what's going on. And he says oh sorry. I one of the cameras Bill up to a game. So my Mike's cut. So the audits what's happening and says come off, and I'm not what's happening. And I'm so very mistake. Because I don't have to choose this material to open the show again because I've come for the smoke in the doors and all this stuff again, and it taking long time in a nice, okay backstage in that make lady comes to try and fix my face. And I was honestly, I couldn't care less. I've got to work out a joke to today for this again. So go back on stage, and it's fine. You know, the gigs fine. Obviously rattled there's bet you can say in a fit when I'm on come on. My Hallo is like I just found insane. I'm not. Awful. And then it goes, right? You know, it's fine. You know to get through it not bad at it. We fair by come off my sister's life. The makeup me. And I was like well and then go to the bathroom. I've just got a completely different color nose to the rest of my face. So basically, the long short there is I think somewhere along the line Romesh Ranga Nathan was the other host on the previous show, and they powder and stuff. And I don't know how it got. Maybe I used it. I don't know. I don't but I don't wear powder psoriasis. So I only normally powder on just before I go on because you get canal before whatever it just comes out. So I think it might be in the dark and they have ours. They put like an hour on the powder or something like that or at night but rising claims so he's very dark skinned. Oh, he's an Asian man. Yeah. And you're light skinned Caucasian woman. Basically, basically my nose is how they dealt with. No. Yeah. So when it came out my polo is my switch just blew up with wash. She had a nose job what she done to our nose image on live at the Apollo. You can see just taking the bone of my nose. Imagine not moving around the stage. It's quite something people. Why does she fix national my God? Yes. As soon as you just even on the still image. It looks. That's moving around a state like a skull. It's mad, and I've got quite small knows anyway for my Facebook public face. And so I have it on me. I'm not saying it was make eighty 'cause I'm sure she wouldn't have done that. But I, you know somewhere in the night, I ended up with the wrong color. No. Still very good that I mean with your eyes wide. The. The road in my nose. It looks. If you had a horrible accident, and they've just stuck a tiny perspective mos- on at the last minute. If you see that moving on a stay. It's quite something. People are like what's going on Twitter? It was just a festival or maybe it wasn't maybe camera date, and then it would just blue. Oh, wow. God how stressful. I get freaked out whenever I do TV. 'cause I do it. So seldom now. Yeah. I always think to myself. Oh now, I'm fine. I'm comfortable with my place in the world. I'll just turn up. And you know, you imagine that you're going to be like Bob Mortimer or something, you know, you just sit back and take it easy. And just be silly. No, I get really really nervous and my brain empties. I start grinning Leka tit, and that's happened to me. So I felt I well that brain freeze you not usually left struggling for something to say because you've got load. Yeah. Those panel shows where you're supposed to respond to everyone else's. Yeah. Man. I mean, you've been on quite a few of them you you've done. Hello got news for you. How was that for you? Because I did that. And it was a nightmare. I've done it. Not. Now, I've done it nine times have you. Yeah. So the last few times of enjoyed it. Because I well the fast did have a few really roasted onto Radi. Because I brought lots of friends to come and watch me do it so naive. This is quite a few years ago know, news go, and we'll have a really good record. There's less people than most panel shows as any too and each side, isn't it's like most penetration not five three on each side. And then the edit came out is just kept showing me laugh at the my gums showing up on the screen like really close like hatefully close. Yeah. But not me speaking. And then I remember that being my house people watching. That's what my best friends can each of. It's been a real learning curve. I think especially when he first won them at least famous person in the room. You know, as a ways you're sitting next to people who've right is writing with them awake millionaires based on this. You know, looking like they're just on the spot. And you're like this woman who was way Ming especially beginning who's that girl? But actually some of them now have frightened of them. You know, so of I don't I read equate think having bridges said, and it really ease. It for me. He said my job is to be funny. Not to make space for me to talk. And I I was quite liberating. Yeah. If I don't get to speak. Then is not my full. It ruins everything. Oh, if I don't get chance. That's just a that's a format problem. Isn't it? You know, everyone sussing each other out that kind of the movie did it the moist a little bit like you work out stuff. And at the best. They had some real fun on them at their worse. They're really horrible. They he's lose confidence. Especially when you are the guest on the show, you're not famous and the way that they are is if they just don't laugh or lookout because the audience go by their reaction to you enough. The best shows are those shows where they getting on with each other and having fun that you would want to be in that gang, especially didn't topical. I think it's quite hard to make sure I would say to not change the shape of how you write or do material with can be dangerous thing. I couldn't get right to give me a line people who now I didn't write it. I really do like at that. You know, you need to let people have their shapes and some shows don't like know, exactly. I know exactly what you mean. And that's the nice thing about dictionary corner on eight hundred ten cats to me, great, right? Right corner. And I can just exist on my own. It's one of the fish cats where alternative comedians, just prediction corner. Which is quite says something about the say of TV, sometimes is that you go Dittrich, what is one of the few places where attorney if comedians can come and do a bit. Until you being like on a mainstream. You know, everyone's watching television show you go. Yeah. So those who are brilliant award-winning comedians like yourself. The week. But you know, you can't. Exactly, you're not giving them the Shaikh. And no longer do have. I got news for you. Enjoy terrible being funny. You know, he's being funny in the way that doing this wanna be funny, sometimes topic, and you go I don't wanna talk about the Iraq war. I don't wanna be funny about that tonight. And like why can about thing like sometimes you have an idea about it? But you know, it can feel quite the topics. Choose to talk about reveal just as much as how you tackle them. So sometimes you panel, you Utah things ego. I mean, my main problem, I think is that what he was saying the topic. I was just thinking of a chocolate bar with a hazelnut in every bite lovely. They still exist. I don't think they do sneakers of very small. Really no sign food, but they got smaller Migo. So I'm blaming Snickers. Really do they come in different sizes? I know they come in extra big size. Now this big now like show you not just getting them out of. Oh, really really had a Snickers buzzed on. I get quite like when I on a chocolate wake. Now, it's one chocolate. I want is Justice very superior a meal Camille mail, it's well balanced meal. Seinfeld. Episode recently, the one where elaine's boss, eight six nine four K the size of it. It's like a big old plank of chocolate be night in an airport to get a Snickers the size of a large loaf of bread God. And if they were sliced like a loaf as well, totally do that. Why don't they do what the sheet is going on baker's slice of malls? The world is upside down. I think we've established that some panel shows especially have I got news for you can provide a person with one of the most traumatic. Experiences that completely puts in the shade. A lot of what other people talk about hard in line. And also that chocolate manufacturers are missing a massive trick exactly by not create especially for, you know, obviously on saying people need less sugar the population's getting obese come on be realistic. Market forces demand large bread sized loaves of Snickers cut into sex. It'd be really nice much capacity. You get go you bring out their cake, but it's Snickers bar. And this is what the future is going to be like, you'll have instead of toast, you'll have to slices of Snickers. And then on top of that, you're put jam and Honey and things. Oh, no. I'm not Honey Honey so over right ED's. What it doesn't pull its weight office? It gets Roshii and you. Well, it's no it said you talking about starts off is older hallmarks of sugar. And then takes a real spicy. Six to savory for it. Just goes like sweet taste around that sugar. Not eating the right. Honey. I'm coming manuka at the moment. That's not bad. You have to let you can't really do that is that's healthy hunting. Yeah. Torture. Whatever. Honey, you're gonna have nice, Honey. Nice thickset. Honey. What would you have on porridge not host come off? It of all of the things you can spread on bread. You're going to go with Honey like we're in the middle ages. It's absolutely ten more Autry toast with some Honey holy Christmas. And also I went through phase that I just had to stop after a while because I could tell it was doing. No, good health. Wise was in the morning. I was getting white bread. Not even toasting it just putting butter on. And then a load of thick set. Honey that was so thick that it sometimes threatened to bust up the consistency of the actual bread yomas game. Tearing so it was a really long drawn out process to warm the Honey a little bit. So that wouldn't tear the bread, and then it would flop around very satisfying Yorkshire, tea and my two big bits of bread with Honey pot attack. And then I'd get a tummy ache. And I wanna. Yeah. We didn't Whitebread moms Irish we'd love so debris. Very very now. Very trendy kind of bread. But growing up. Why can't we just live normal April? Mom. Yeah. Just having. This was always saying breads meant to break. She likes it when they crumble. Yeah. She's right. She's right. So yes, excuse me. Just doing the wind management. Good to in that Beth. Myself. Baby before bed down. Oh digestion after set up and just let. In the dark darker, my own kin Haskell even more to life than this. So yes, you mentioned your Ma. And the fact that she's Irish obviously, you have a very Irish name the is that I was thrown off course by your north London accent years because you grew up in Camden. I didn't date. Good ocanan. Did you have seen enough you boys? Wandering around. The nutty boys. Madness did yes. Yes. I did a so in formation. Say funny, everyone in Camden. So of like, New Jersey, I mentioned if until the relate to Bruce Springsteen, Ryan Camden. So by he's maccagnan's, everyone sort of relate to madness. Yeah. I saw them a couple of times just like the station that many times considering Jesse was also from Camden. That's right. Am I was very big lawyer when I was a kid Eliah yet. Really like, really? Yeah. We love can just tell big lies, very imaginative. I was an island, and I was staying in Kerry cousin Sabrina and cheating going for bellyful of lies, and then her friend so to sell with very big at the time. And I said, oh, Jesse bailiffs name me. And then she was oh, cool. Cool to weigh in our way round quite fast. And I saw has of doing the thing to have friend, my main riots, and I was like feeling the finger, and that's it. Yeah. And I was I do and then I got back, and I think it's been like nine. But of rage. I just Jesse base anywhere. We lived and then to us outside his house, and I had this Kodak for a week. And then I think his wife or his someone came out whatever like little girl what you doing us for Jesse. Tall. When the three days. Became quite possessive him then like as a determined to prove your. Yeah. I could never really get the evidence until Google happen. Five years. Then I emailed my cousin. I emailed her. This is why he lived to giving them. So stop lying. Yeah. You tell bad lies will just fun made up fantasy fantasy lie. Not bad lies. I didn't get anyone. Jesse b I didn't want anyone in jail. That's the outside buzzer. I like to respond to any buzzes or rings or anything like that. I like to pretend that it doesn't affect me because it's not going to be for me. My wife gets furious because I never answer the phone. It's not for me. No one calls me. They my friend Garth Jennings. Sometimes calls me, that's despite the fact that the first time he called me out of the blue when we were tools, the beginning of our friendship. I've known for years and years, but he phoned me at one after noon, and I hate hi Goth. How're you doing? And he's like, yeah. Good. Yeah. Just and he's waffling on about some nonsense. And then he picked up from the tone of my voice that I was going. What's the point of this? Call. Because I'm just not used to having chatty calls there was a time when things were more chatty. But then I think Mobil's ruined that for me. They ended up becoming synonymous with something more functional. Do you know what? I mean. Like, yeah. Getting a call. It was going to be something professional, and it wouldn't be Chaffee took the ceremony of Kohl's this someone's on the phone feared by FaceTime, quite a lot now. So I hear I saw you talking to Russell. Yeah. Yeah. And you said to him because he was like why would you wanna FaceTime? Why wouldn't you that that is the apex of modern communication? Yeah. Sound and vision, and I was thinking new that's exactly my worst nightmare. If anyone ever face times, ignore it. We'll all be doing soon, we'll have like holograms, and we'll just be like little balls in our house, and we'll just have a whole thing that just goes out and limits or avatars against that. The means are constrained, my house you want to get out into the world and on the chew gum. And then go into offices that you don't know. And then meet someone who's rude to you on the way. I'm this limit everyone. Limit all the when I'm alone when I'm at home. That's what I wanna be wanna be alone. And I want to choose the times when I'm interacting with people. So so when someone FaceTime me, it's like they've just transported into my nice, comfortable. Alone. I could see the transporter beam, and I just wanted to disrupt it and scattered atoms to another part of the universe. A you. Good replying to emails and texts and things like that. No. I'm really bad. It's one of those things where you get to you my ever gonna get good. I don't know. It's not intentional. I don't find. It thing is nothing really bad at it. Like, I'm proud of. I don't mean to be come on top. And then I looked down on forty thousand number emails. Four hundred messages, I'm read my phone and that sounds like Hubbell Brady, it's not. It's just literally not deleting things. That's what happens. It's not like popular. I've got. No, no. That's what happens if you never delete an Email, and you stay in hotels new sign up and give you Email address. You're gonna get a lot of junk. Something pretty intense. And do you get in trouble for it? Yeah. Try to keep up a bit. I'm trying to be better. I'm trying to be late as much as well thing. My therapist is obsessed with as I was waiting today for. News around forty five minutes. I was reading autocell that said Roshan is very late. Interview turns out looking fluster. I mean, this is disease. How you always think of certain things that topic will trigger just one particular memory. And when anyone talks about lateness, I always think of this interview IRA you face where he said this no excuse for it. Absolutely. No excuse or you have to do is leave earlier and be on time. Simplest that. And I remember reading it and thinking. Yeah, is totally correct. But therefore what you have to believe then is that people who are lay are inherently bad going up. This don't care best. The thing, isn't it. That's not true. That fascinating thing that my favorite. So she's where do you go like from ten minutes? I'm almost ten minutes late. She's obsessed with where did I lose this car? It's like a quantum leap. I don't know. It was I was on time. And then you have to go pick up my keys at I pick up. My Kate, you know that bit. And then I think that's the thing is the last minute is I'm a last minute ditherer. So everything will be fine. I'll tell myself, okay. The train is Levin. It's going take me forty five minutes to cycle to this station. I'm going to be ready to leave the house at ten stop. What I'm doing at nine forty five in order to prepare the leaving the house. But even then even after I've rehearsed the timing of the whole thing it'll be just go upstairs and just do that thing because I'm in good time now, so I'm just going to do that thing. And then of course, and also because jobs like when I had a full time job is easier because you with these are the times and your body of respond go with these tiny as times get up and go, but I didn't get that being self employed that sort of I think the people who are very good organized people. They plan their day out the night before they know that that's never been a natural thing for me. So I've always found it. But like what where am I going where am I look into? 'cause like, so what are we going? Sometimes I will eventually respond to a text three weeks later, and I'll say sorry for the reply lag. Yeah. And I just hope that people understand that it's not malicious. But it's like forget your name. I'm fine. When people don't remember me as my name, I presume since the internet up brains of full, and we meet hundreds of people and some people do that thing hikes. It's designs. What you feel I try but people we've met before. And I waited mate, and they go, oh, we did get together in two thousand and nine go. Okay. Did we speak? Like, no. You know, what I'm more to go. Be like we've geeked before actually like basely, subtext, your horrible. You. I don't care meet people who have gig with. They're like, hey, I don't go suray at me before. I was like, oh, hey. And if they did we meet before. Yeah. It's fine this life. I don't made into your store me. I am that important. Stormy exactly. Best of people. Yeah. All right. We wanna be late. We don't respond to you. We don't remember your name. We just want everyone to be okay. With just want to carry on being shifty. And not be happy about that too much to us. It's not illegal to dickhead guys. Excuse me down inside. Inside guard. Gives me excuse excuse funny, thing even if I'm far away in the house, and we work in if I bet she'll be she'll say excuse me. And it infuriates me say much. She will not let one slide even and I say, gee, I should say. Oh, my I if I'm in the way ancient you should always say for the habits like a mini. Like a white five four sake. Skews me Darik mom. I agree with you. Yeah. She is from Limerick drum Colliver. Yeah. Wow. Is that seriously how you pronounce it? Trump caller from call her. Halfway there. Because usually with Irish names. Yeah. Forget about it. Because that's the other thing is people who get all bent out of shape when you've never seen a name before pronouncing your way off actually, no not. Know, how offensive just tell the Trump caller. Okay. Great. And your dad when he was alive. He was also was Irish Irish man who worked for L Aengus. Yes, gosh, you're literally going through. Let's go to. Let's go to. Yeah. Yeah. So you spend obviously a lot of time in Ireland. Even though you growing up in Camden, you'd go and holiday back in Ireland, cork and Kerry. Yeah, I went to carry for the first time earlier this year because my producer shameless his family of that part of the world, and he very kindly invited me over there to do a bit of writing their whereabouts. Was it Kells bay? Okay. Yeah. That's Nick, Logan. It's out that way cash Evine. Oh, yes. Yes. Near the beach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right on the coast. Yeah. Speech for isn't it? Carey stunning. Yeah. Really magical place. Did you ever go to Kells bay house and gardens? No, no, I think say botanical gardens round there. I went for walk around there when I was a child, but I'm really beautiful they got sort of prehistoric plants and that have been planted there. And I was hoping you're going to say, yeah. Of course, I'm always going to kill. Because I wanted to share a trip advisor review. Oh, Sharon, anyway, though, you like reading trip who doesn't and do you oughta Mattingly just go to the worst ones. 'cause what's the point reading prize? Also, really awful thing as human beings that we we've established that we're terrible people. But no, it's it's survival. You have to find out the worst things I. Said you're one of the worst people. So here is a review. I saw that maybe chuckle terrible place. That's the title of the review. What shall I? Call by review. The disappointing house. No, no, no, terrible place. Terrible place. We went for dinner there. The service was poor as the owner Billy treated us like children after two mediocre meal. We decided to go to the gardens we walked in the front entrance in the owner source walk it, we were not sure if we had to pay. So we looked at him to see it was okay. He walked off. So we assumed it was okay to go on after viewing the first portion of the gardens, we bumped into Billy. He then told us we have to pay. So I explained how we looked at him to see if it was okay to go ahead earlier on once I told him this. He replied, are you serious? This man is horrible at handling situations that many businessmen would come across people saying, but I looked at you. It was fine to drive the car out of the showroom looked at you. Say look you. You didn't tell me up to a much even like when you review like that. He's gonna like limit. How much information that makes him look bad? I'm not his Eddie version of the evening, imagine. That's what makes it print. How awful he was. Maybe it was a by the way, I should say the transparency that is a edited version of his review it's been edited for length, but the original meaning and spelling has not been altered. Yeah. And that goes for this. Can I read you another one? Yeah. Skater back place, though, aren't you just going to make people don't want to go there. Beautiful council. These now counteract I had a wonderful time. I haven't eaten at the restaurants batch for it. I'm sure it's fine. It's got many many many positive trip advisor reviews points on the massive. I mean, it's like just shy of five stars. It's fine. It's great. There's always going to be a couple of disgruntled people who just being unlucky. And here's another one of the. And this one is entitled the most tenable experience I've ever had. Oh, so that's big isn't a massive. But it's not that bad. I'm trying to think of the voice for this one. I think it's going to be similar to the last one my and my friends experience with a restaurant. What I'm fortunately, very, unpleasant. We were told we would be situated in the winter garden, which satisfied us as it looked pretty on. The photographs imagine surprise when it turned out to be freezing cold on night. I mean, I would have said maybe think about the fact that it's called the winter garden anyway when everyone finally offered it took the staff of forty minutes, we had a timer on to bring a starters. That's in brackets time around. That's such bullshit. After one point five hour the waitress. Finally started appearing from the warm part of the rest. That wasn't a winter garden with our food. But no one received their main dish at the same time to add more to go to the bathroom. We had to go outside. That's out spout. And they're talking about a special bat room. I that they say the waitress came from the rest of that wasn't the winter. To frost. When did waitress finally defrosted, she. Started moving came from the warmer climes anyway to go to the bathroom. We had to go outside. It was located just on the right side of the door to the winter garden twice one of us accidentally left the door to the winter garden open while it was cold and raining outside during the second time, the manager walked extremely angry and fast to the door and with a very loudly slammed the door imagine. How awfully felt? Because they did twice left the door of the winter garden open while it was freezing cold. And there was a stall Matt side only twice and yet extremely loudly slammed the door. He did. And we want to just go to the bathroom. Can you imagine? How awfully vowed. Anyway this. Those people should be listening to this podcast. They should be this thing because for them in the light of day when the going about their lives, you you could just leave these bullets of hey in the mood that you're in. But it's really good for sober. Calm. You to be you know, like the texture angry. God like you need it right out. You need to be read that voice. Yeah. Someone did this need to TWA. Yeah. Are you a complainer? I've got better complaining view. Yeah. So skill isn't it professionally I've had to learn that as well. Having to say, I'm not happy with that. And how you say things, and I think once you've sure that you've said it, and that you've been polite about any clear, I find men in restaurants gross generalization by find the men who this is at grocery stores. -ation all men people who will on stage say the worst thing. And they'll have a meal to offer some and like those, and I'm right of this man, just say, if you polite about say stories, people would blow your mind, you belie panicking about sending meal back, whereas recyc-, I'm happy to I thought you were going to say men are often the ones who do the most unreasonable complaining, I mean, that's been my experience of seeing just blokes throwing their weight around a bit. And they're just long. We'd be waiting to -rageous full minutes frost. That's my overall experience. However, your point is well made, and I do feel that I'm probably one of those men that is too gutless to actually just do a perfectly reasonable complaint. And that's how caused people improve. They rely on you on a reasonable bit of criticism. But the problem is that the art of reasonable criticism is not one that is currently thriving in the modern world nine people's tendency is to be very harshly judgmental and just dismissive and contemptuous with criticism. You know, in a way that doesn't do anyone any good the other person or the business that criticizing just recoils and goes, well, I'm not going to engage with you. Because your day. Totally. I think it's also the more, you charge, the reviews are harsher. Yeah. That's the thing. Zami with the more people's expectations raised the more. They become indignant when the yeah. But still. Still the criticism. The way we speak about everything the everything should conform to one eight and it's hard because we live in quite narcissistic, everything should be catered. What the center of the world doesn't this? Come back a little bit to what we were saying about texts. Yeah. People getting bent out of shape when you don't respond to them quickly enough on when you don't treat them, exactly the way, they think they should be treated or whatever. And rather than just of going. Okay. Well, these things happen and moving on or forgetting about it people are just like, yeah. If you'd have Instagram and Twitter, we're all everyone's running this movie of their life. Everyone's of narrative going on. I think it's very hard to switch. We become far more. Aware of. Aware of of ourselves and our needs. And how we're seeing how it's reflected so complaining is thing. I think you have to say it once you in a complaining mood you get into that zone. 'cause the news the new cycles rule in kind of so bad everywhere. And I think it gets into our cells that we're all sort of a bit more like I said so power of it. Everything's reflection of of conspiracy of it's true. And I say this Inouye to impugn the world of feminism and the way things are going as far as sexual politics concerned in relations between the genders that's very long caveat before I say this. But a lot of women talk about almost the goggles coming off when they start reading or thinking about the way that the patriarchy operates the way that society is structured the way that crazy assumptions made about how women should behave and Acton appear at cetera. Etcetera. And once you start noticing those things you can't stop. Yes. Let you're surrounded by this mad mad world. And you consider get sucked into only seeing it that way. Do you know what I mean? I'm not suggesting that that's I would rather people were aware of those things the alternative is worse. Yeah. But you can suddenly become completely caught up in the idea of an it's also the same with all sorts of other bad things things that need changing in the world. You know, you can only see the world through the lens of worrying about those things. Women in feminism, I is a little bit. Because I do think that is such a shifting consciousness and saying this is probably white women as well. I should say. So I do think there are things. And I think a lot of us haven't digested so much of it as you know, we kind of unraveling. I think men are as well. So that women are going regret using feminism as as an example because it sounds if I'm so it's it's pretty go mad, which I might instinct is to respond because we're so far away from what we need to be that my instinct is to push back on. I can't I understand what you're saying that I do get when any movement happens was nuance SUV and everything but with so far away from that position. We're still unraveling so much of our behavior and what's been happening. And how we how we program than suffer that much still coming out. And we're still Cal this works and how they know. It's too soon to say perhaps that's not based on that. Because we still going. Through that process. I think it will take a long time. But in recent years say with the me two times up in that I feel like a lot of us have gone through a Rolodex is not like not huge massive sexual sins. But like so of things that we took his no more things we had to women and for that just how is yeah. And now hearing young woman to and I'm not just those we make she'll be old. 'cause you're I is quite shift is a lot to take on. What be like, well, this is stuff you just let go because you couldn't really you just that's how it is. You have DO be exist in this business. How you have to exist in the world. And how the obvious things you'd have the language for that power struggle the language for how that this quick things that seemingly all microbe actually end up framing. How you behave. How you respond? How you feel you know? And I suppose I'm a little bit like, no, not feminists. Yeah. Yes. So convoluted. I'm not very, no. I know exactly what you mean. And as. I say I regret using that as an example because it immediately positions me as someone who is in some way criticizing that. And I'm absolutely not. No, it's like anything, you know, when you start thinking about something a learning about something. That's the way you see the world. Yeah. And that's a thing that had to happen with so many that are happening now with gender, politics and all sorts of things, but it's like have you ever seen? They live the film. It's John carpenter film. And it's about aliens who have kind of integrated themselves on earth. And now they are behind all sorts of inequalities and systems that ought to be changed. They're kind of behind the corporations and advertising it sit of science fiction paranoid fantasy this allegorical film, and they'd be behind the patriarchy and all this thing. And this guy they get these glosses they can put on. And when they put the glasses on it enables them to see the members of society are actually these aliens and that because not everyone is an alien, right, right? Everyone looks normal without the glasses. But then when you put the glasses on you can see the aliens, and they're all like hideous skull creatures with flesh stripped away and their muscles exposed, you know, and you can also look advertising hoardings and things like that. And instead of it being an advert for swimwear or whatever with a beautiful model on it all is just a white sign with bold type that says consume, and yeah, everything is stripped away with the goggles on. And that's what it's a bit. Like, that's what I was trying to say. And I remember when I was at art school. And I was writing my thesis about some aspect to the media karma boy, and I was reading all these books about the media in about television. I read a book called amusing ourselves to death by Neil postman, which is still I think considered. Kind of the seminal text in this whole world of considering a deep level how we interact with media. And what it does to us as the science. And suddenly, that's the only way that I could see the world every advert that I watched I was kind of deconstructing, and I was saying that's what they're really saying. And it was like I was wearing the goggles. And I could see was like consume obey submit. And I think that's probably how women see the world. Once they now that this third wave of feminism has broken, and I'm sure that you can't see it any other way ever again. And I think it was like you're saying, I think, you know, there's so much going on in the world isn't because it's not just you know, within white women. Let Trump the groups which we see ourselves in. I think becoming pov- is. Now, the crossover is seen as like somehow inauthentic and centrist is a word and anyone who's let you say put new ones up. Maybe. That's no. Is it new thing that? Struggling with throughout all the conversations about everything, which we all know is a terrible way to have any philosophy. And I think the media has everything's a conspiracy. My Uber driver said to me day, which which the moon the moon it was full moon. It's nice. But new think about he was like they didn't land on the moon. He said the real of the moons not real. One thing. And he and he was he was laughing himself. He's very charming doing it. So of this very minute. I know. It sounds crazy. It's just my opinion. And I was like. And I was like. I heard that before I have had this means real this is a huge. There's a huge thing at the moment. Where always there's some guy on GMTV or Sammy madness. And but this is legitimately how we where we're getting to with this level of conspiracy. And that's what I think deep down. There's a real sense that there's some secret thing in and it could be women they trying to get reffing. And then you got the white nationalist always seem like, and it's really of like they're coming. They're coming for us. And that's really in the air. And then now, you know, that's the scary thing that we're not almost like sort of medieval things. Yeah. I remember before the election. I I was like, you know, all these conservatives and stuff, and I thought oh people in America Republican. I I went looking 'cause that's what he's rallies, and I found that Tommy Laurent and cheese. But she was twenty two twenty Bobby looking conservative kind of very blond very glamorous, very sort of unchristian, right? Right that you would Hollywood sex path. And she was like, furious and guns. And and I remember thinking, oh, they'll get in. This is a new movement. This is not a thing. This is not this old sort of conservative right making his comeback, this youth movement as much as anything, you know. And that's what we frightening. I did have these fears we've discussed, and I said, I think Trump hookah in Nick Clegg was hosting and they will dopey so miserable and often leads chatting about the bar. And they were like, you know, you fifty percent women women, and I was like all women hold the same views on what being a woman in. Feminism is like the religious freedom of their racism comes before anything. So I just felt like it didn't do us any favors to not know. But I don't think you should promote it. But I do think you should do t to know it's going on. I think we have a thing you shouldn't this stall. Well, it's all over the internet relay look, you can see it's there, and you can see that you know, when you've got. A youth movement. Which is what that was. And I think with the far right in America, not old men. They young guys will around you know, that's insane. Within Europe is a youth movement. And that is terrifying. Some people Swedish traumatic to follow people that hate I follow people that. I'm like, yeah. I'm going to keep my on. My started off doing I started off following people. I didn't agree with for exactly those reasons because I thought well, it's good to be across different points of view. But after a while I was just worn down. And I just thought fuck this. And also, it's Twitter can get my news from somewhere else Twitter is the best medium for many discussion. Maybe you're right. I think the pay lay hadn't thought of it like now you put it like that. I it is the best place. It's no good for nuance. But the idea so quick I remember in the time of the riots, and I was in Edinburgh the rights in London. Sure. Yeah. And I at the BBC on. I remember thinking, you know, like what was happening. And then I went on Twitter for news flash. But I'm talking about kind of political discussion than debate. And oh, yeah. But I also it just forgetting factoid. Yeah. Great. However, I've read and found people into of never would have found, and I never would have heard of articles have made me change my mind. Maybe all made me go like, oh, that's okay. When you put it like that this is uncomfortable. I think about found those articles. Elsewhere, wouldn't you know, I didn't think I would've looked thing. That's come up. And you know, I don't go looking for. I don't think he's flawless. I think is bad for you. I think it's quite by for my brain. I don't think it's a good place to be Twitter isn't go friendly Twitter. A little round is like going to awful things happening in who single things. I saw Danny Baker Tweety the other day who was it. A Michael Caine was shitting on about Brexit. Right. And airing. You know, depending on your point of view, relatively wrongheaded views from point of view of like, you know, what is he? No, he doesn't have in this country. He's massively rich. So people just went for him. Yeah. And they will fuck you, Michael Caine fucking bastard and stupid senile old shitter. And I don't know if they were exactly. Those are the two things. But Danny Baker was saying to paraphrase. All right. Look, we don't agree with them. Some people do some people don't I don't agree with him personally. But it's not necessary to unleash this tidal wave of rage every time someone says something you don't agree with. And he said, it's a sickness any conversation around politics of the moment. Everyone is using that language around any of the conversations we're having the world. There's no compensation where someone isn't getting told you're gonna be you're responsible for this. Worst thing that's happening in your the worst thing. And and I think everyone's at that heightened level, and I understand because the stakes are high will feel passionate. Yeah. I think that can flation of passion and righteous indignation with just rage. And accusations of saying of shutting down a thing where I conversation where he is. And that's what I mean about power controlling the conversation. That's what scares me. Oh bit. The worst cases a mob can stop someone speaking. And we are allowed unless you're inciting violence and hatred, and they are precise things and not just a different of opinion to you because we were combined around you let no a different opinion. We can't hate half the people who live in the world. You can't live like that America. Trump governing for the people who elected them, basically hating half, the Samaj, you have to we're going to have to find a way where that's how the of democracy is in their flawed. How they function is that we can we get away with the government occasionally down. But the moment is like deaf to them to them. And and is really serious. We live in these countries with these people off maybes, and I think I don't know how helpful is to be like what you dehumanize people. Once you talking about their enemy. We would have group of people are certain type of person that can bring out that in us. They are the worst people, you know, don't get back to texts. Sometimes up to three weeks. Exactly. They are enemy evil bloom. I mean, we can sort this country. Our share are you going to be running for office anytime soon who knows maybe? I'll tell you what you would do your first day in office, you'd make call to whoever manufacture Snickers all. Yeah. And you'd say look for fuck sake. Why can we not by a family loaf sized Sinica that comes ready sliced in order to be slathered with manuka, Honey? Honey, Honey, factory shut down. No, no, no, no, no. No, I struggle with anger. Sometimes a human being yet is I don't like lose my shit too often unless I'm at Cambridge stations. I is the most toxic of the bitterness. You didn't emotion scale. Let's do it bitterness is rust the ages you I think it's the most uncomfortable to be around because I agree econ, fix it. And people are bitter. It's just hard to be near them. My wife. Yeah. And I think if you to start of your emotions a bit don't emissions. Wow. Book. You can live rich life over the being scared of your emotions, I think being fearful of your emotions being fearful of being out of control like falling in love, you do things you can't survive the feeling of not working. I caught survived that shame. I caught survive. People thinking, I'm not good to go into that can those fine feelings, and we just we can work through them only when you're scared to work for it. And they just sit there unwrapped box failings. I'm thinking of what's again. This would be a good chocolate range that wouldn't it? Of heroes or celebration. You could have 'em V jealousy bitterness, and they would you know, the bitter one would be Honey now because that's weet that would be show eaten. Bitterness. What are we thinking? Honey. I do your fi. It would be good. Sweet. That would be great sweets business envy. Anger. What would anger taste off? Behar chili chocolate. Yes, I'm going to be that love love bay. If you really lame. It would be pink. Strawberry. The worst one or you could have it really be kind of a bit sexy and dirty and just now that the sex that bend ally. Attraction us last you need love if your family in the lucky. Taste jeeze. Jeez. Wait continue. Come on. Dog he doing God Plimer? So just be patient. Rocio connotation there. Thank you very much indeed to Rocio scene for her time. I really appreciate it her coming over and chatting with me. It was really nice to get to know her little bit. You gotta play my Brexit's on now. Just wait. I just want to get a couple of thank you out of the way, Lauren. Thanks very much. Indeed to shame. It's Murphy Mitchell for his production support on this episode. Thanks, man. Really? Appreciate it. And thank you to Anika Meyson for additional editing. Annika is a producer vocalist and visual artists who kindly got in touch with me to offer technical support a few months back on the podcast, and she's already been a huge help with this episode and some other episodes that we have in the pipe. So thanks Anika. She didn't ask me to give her music plug usually when people ask me to plug things really encourages me not to. But I thought I would like to give her stuff shatter because. It's good to quote from her website. There's a link in the description of the podcast. It's an music dot co dot U. K Annika has previously featured vocally on critically acclaimed albums by forest swords, and faulty DL FA L T Y D L electronic artists both before developing her own solo material, and showcasing it at shows across the U K Europe. And Russia his little taste of anchors track. Life force. There you go little bit of life force for you that by Annika Meyson who helped at it today's podcast. Thanks a lot Annika. Right. Rosie. What is this son of yours called on the backstop? I mean, I know you've had strong political things in the past. Whereas this one coming from tonight bomb. Okay. We'll play a little bit of it. This is Rosie's satirical Brexit zone. Understand. Why? Why not on on? Max. Avenue. Right. That's enough of that twenty eight more verses some really funny stuff about Jacob rees-mogg. What rhyming with dog, right? No, no, exactly. Maybe another time. But I wanna head back. Now, it's called fascist until next time. We share the same our space you and I- please be careful out there. Okay. I love you.

Twitter Honey London Edinburgh Camden Jesse b Mike Orlando Brexit Apollo Danny Baker Roshan Conaty Edgar Wright Buxton Rosie Rocio Kensington Nick Clegg Spain
EP.134 - SLEAFORD MODS

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:04:20 hr | Last month

EP.134 - SLEAFORD MODS

"One more. Gye vodkas bend. Now you have that cost out and started listening I took my microphone found some human. Then I recalled it all the noises while. I name as at Buxton. I want you to enjoy. That's the. Hey how you doing podcasts Adam Buxton here. Reporting to you from femme track. In the east of England. Towards the middle of October twenty twenty, it's a nice day today. Well. It's nice just at this moment. It's been raining all morning. And the forecast. For the foreseeable future. Is Let me just check maybe it's changed, but the last time I looked at it. It was looking bad. For this week. Oh, yet it's still bad. Monday Tuesday Wednesday rain Thursday rain. Friday rain Saturday rain Sunday rain Monday. A little bit of. Tuesday, right. But anyway, right now son is out it's cold I'm going to lie it is cold. Poof, poof killed by T wind check big dramatic clouds check should've bought my gloves check but I'm not complaining it's Nice. The Sun is on my face. Myself and my friend, Rosie. Are enjoying the solitude. We don't have to worry about. How to handle it when someone you haven't seen for a while Comes up and gives you a hug. because. They think you'll like the hug and I do like the hug. But at the same time, there is a pandemic and I just think it's appropriate and I hope you don't take it personally but it's too late for that now because possibly both of us. Of course coronavirus don't have to worry about any of that out here. Isn't that right rose at that? Anyway let me tell you a bit about podcast number one, hundred, thirty, four. which features a rambling conversation with Jason, Williamson and Andrew Fern from the English Electronic Punk Music Joe Sleaford mods. Though I imagine most of you listening to this role ready familiar with the band. His few introductory sleeping bald facts full the open minded pod cats. Or thomps as no calls them who checking out this episode. Despite not really knowing what to expect. Welcome thomps. About that one Sleaford Bald facts Andrew and Jason started performing together as Sleaford modes in Nottingham around two thousand and seven with Andrew, responsible for putting together backing tracks, featuring sparse, and often deliberately basic beats, Bass Guitar and Keyboard Parts in live shows Andrew Fis. These tracks off from his laptop then stands back sometimes with pint in hand nodding along to the beat while Jason, delivers vocal accompaniment that sometime sounds like angry and bitterly funny performance poetry slash rap in the tradition of John Cooper Clarke and at other times features elements that are strangely soulful even melodic. I described them as the pet shop boys on cheap speed. What do you think of that? Rose I'm like a music journalist. Really good. Thank you. Oh. I've heard a few pieces of sleaford modes in the early twenty tens, but it wasn't until I. saw them performing that track job seeker on British Music TV show later with jools that I got more excited his clip of that performance. By shut. Off. Anyone's guess. By the end of Twenty Fifteen Sleaford modes we're getting used to being the toast of the British music press who celebrated their embittered explorations of austerity era Britain culture, and working class life while Iggy pop on his BBC Six Music Radio Show described them as Jeffrey the world's greatest rock and roll band. Keep up sounds like I. watched a great documentary about the band called Bunch of const. Const or Kunst being the German word for art which features great footage of some of the early performances along with some of the shows that helped them break through to a wider audience juxtaposed with behind the scenes footage of Jason and Andrew. Adjusting to their high profile. And other people's expectations of what they do and what they stand for. You can watch the documentary in full on Youtube. There's a link in the description of this podcast along with links to that performance on later with jools. And a few music videos and interviews that I particularly liked. Mike Conversation with Jason Andrew took place in April Twenty nineteen. Shortly after the release of their tenth studio album eaten alive. As in the school Eton so it being pre Cova Times. We were in the same room together. Without. Protective Gear F in this case. We were in the king's cross comedy venue. To north down very grateful to the folks at to north down. For the help back then I hope that doing. Okay. Oh suddenly gone known clement. Wind and rain. Anyway. I talked with Andrew Jason About. Selling out. KLOSS. Musical influences. The stories behind a few of their lyrics. And Jason's love hate relationship with social media. Jason and Andrew performed a couple of tracks for me sticking a five and go a kind of twisted twitter reverse fantasy. And discourse. From the eaten, alive? Album. Now unfortunately on the day I had a bit of a technical meltdown when I was recording the performance. and. The Mike, the Jason was using didn't record. But I did have my backup recorder running. So he's able to use that and I think all things considered. It sounds pretty good. I'm very grateful to Andrew from the band who helped me in the process of getting the recording. Sound as good as possible Chisholm Andrew Right look that was a long intro. Let's get going with SLEAFORD mods. Here we go. Talk from. Aw. Aw. In a venue to north down in kings cross it's very small, Comedy Club. And I've done a few warm up shows here. Do you ever get to play these sizes of venues anymore I mean Not. smallish ones on the tour can no is like do smell step de miss these sort of shows for you to be in big venues now I think it depends all on the audience if it kind of active or just you know connected to in a physical way is better but if just static I, mean I'm lost in a world remembering the words but Andrew can see a gets more annoyed by. It just. If people are just stood there I mean I know the paid staff can do what for? Eight sometimes, it can be a bit alarmed. You'RE GONNA move Tom Yes. Yes. move a bed. You playing a shows at the moment. Yeah. Runs. Yeah. Is quite a few good interviews with European journalists with you guys here and. A lot of time they tend to ask quite fruity questions. You know what I mean I sometimes, they just go in this. So so what do you think about like some guys think you of totally fucking sold out. Just, going for that like you don't play for working class audiences anymore all audiences middle class how what do you think about that? Do you ever get irritated by those sorts of questions? I mean, you seem very reasonable when you're doing. Now. So He's been lying wish interpretation barrier way if you tribe with the before and you can get where they're coming from not really being aggressive or anything. Right Stuff yeah. You were talking to a guy called Patrick. Vieira maybe rubberband German van called gaveled Oh you're you're you're talking about getting more successful you said I want to get as big as I can but I don't want to be a fucking wanker yeah. As far as getting more successful and I was thinking like that's hard though who which musicians of pulled that off that, you can think of that have become really successful haven't become total assholes. School probably, con Ed people are. I don't know really I mean. Other think I'm a wine comb shore under doesn't Somebody who came to see his four years ago in wherever probably nothing's anchors She'll dance with people's perceptions in guess. Yeah. The sell out boss different for everybody way you consider selling tools like johnny wrongdoing. At The beginning of his career but awful. Yeah. But what he's really, Oh, it's fine I may go for it. Depends what you do these things I think I think so I think a lot of the time. Yeah. So financing in his world. IGGY pop same credit card thing. Grind with the robbery pop all that was a weird one. Juice you need Dodon Yeah Okay Yeah I, always feel that but people. Especially online obviously in the Youtube comments section are God it doesn't take much to. Acusations selling out as far as a lot of those fans are concerned and I imagine most of them had like thirteen year old boys. They just learned about the concept of selling out, and now they can't wait to accuse someone of selling. APP. You fucking sellout. So far as they're concerned I think if you do anything that is in any way commercial or if you don't just stay exactly as you were when you started out. then. You saw that they just resent the idea that you would develop. In any way. Because you're no longer the thing that they like why aren't you the same? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got Accused and selling out some guy on facebook we play in the theatre royal knowing not rock city he worked local. So in office and got mayor who works as well. News kept taking pictures Obama. In Office look in the court today. Look into the chromebook noise wearing. This is the guy that was accused UK's. Yeah Oh man is a funny video though speaking of Johnny. Rotten. In fact, it popped up in the sidebar when I was watching the video of you talking to the German guy from Gal aura like all these old punt guys getting together this year I think Oh. and is Johnny Rotten and Marky ramone. Yeah and he kicked off dinner. Yeah. But Johnny wrong was just absolutely hammered and just talking total bullshit. Is Impossible to pin down where he was coming. Your name. And Marky ramone started talking about how you know when the ramones started playing it was so exciting. We would just say whatever we wanted and there was no rules and then Johnny South going. Then thank Nice. War starts making noise and going. That's Bullshit Ed's. Ball share. The hang about palm. As as supposed to be about saying Fuck Hall and you do you don't do what people on you do what my shift failed. Boys. Look how and that's. Why what's your? What's your point you? Disagreeing with him or you very using and you can see Henry Rowlands at the end going. audio. Why am I sat with? So you don't want to end up like that now. With the kind of music that you do the things you talked about in the lyrics and everything people are immediately going to say, well, you don't come from that world anymore you've transitioned how can you still be singing about that world? and. That's that's for me tied in with this idea of cultural appropriation, which is so prevalent now that people have a narrower and narrower. You have the right to sing about and to talk about and to deal within your. Well yeah it. How do you feel about all that stuff? Yeah. I. Of. Recently, accused various taxes appropriately in. Class, culture. So really are commonly saying I'm probably just as bad but if anybody ever asks questions lot well. You can also dominions and. Someone, online accused of not been able to do job seeker anymore. One of the older earliest Jews because we obviously no longer job seen jobs everybody in the audience, a job seeker and they like you. Remember a time in their life where they were when employed. So US where everybody lives that not because employer. Well. We go. Right to do it because we've. Spent. Online wishing atmosphere environment. And everyone wants to play as well. Thanks, waste. Play or no play just called sonic booms. Has Classic tracks that has to play. What if your an audience member and you never were a job seeker? Does that mean that you have? No right to listen to it enjoy. Does that mean that you have no right to engage in another person's Life or perspective memories. It's just a really old way of looking at things I think is definitely when people started talking about Sleaford martyrs being like the voice of Blah Blah Blah. You must have. Interviews. Twenty, fourteen were. Knocking down. Yes I mean that must be a total nightmare as an artist. Once you start being told your your this'll you that? Yes difficult press love Dula Shane Two thousand, thirteen, the class thing. You know they'll. Sort of. Coalition coming in and austerity and. Fly demonization the Working Class Owen, Jones Book and everything else. And we were just moaning world. The it was focus and. Collect with it because it was in a sense class conscious gaining that consciousness about it whereas before never. Didn't think about it in those terms but when that was presented to start to think about I, think they got points or started looking into it to a certain degree. We took it by the hand or other I did vocally and interviews, but after a while it did wrote. For Fox eight. because. It was it was presented to his questions in such a crap way as world there's just observation. It's not I won't say it's class politics manifesto. We're not left certainly not right. But it's weird with the class thing because the middle classes of see get a Lotta stick because because why why do you think that is why? For example, with the climate change demonstrations over the last week in central London Hanley. A lot of the people were knocking the demonstrators for being ostensibly middle class. It likes to say, Oh, it's all right. The you. You don't have jobs that you have to go to fanny around with your pink boat. But. I just thought that's a weird thing like, why are they being demonized? What is it about the middle classes I mean I've got some ideas but I'm interested to hear what yours? There's like a poverty class now. If, you're not Brockett icefield employed wherever happening politics didn't affect me. You get on what's happening in the country plow. Affect me until whatever happens. So. With brexit nephew would employed for example, doesn't matter whether we talk about the super chill the middle class to you they're the same thing. In the race at all. Employ person you just not part of society. So you look at the whole thing totally differently. And I'm not saying that's why middle class people. It's kind of. And before you know you. Love the middle classes used to be working classes and they changed their lives. They engaged in social mobility. Yes. Got Educated in skill sets. Didn't they? Think of it class coach I think of. Female Male Solo. Acoustic artists covering classic songs. Destroy. My Age in coffee shops or some right right it's not really a class thing. You know it's just like mass culture thing. It's just people mindless drink drinking coke that's more than. The middle class working class conscious about what you're doing. Then it's worst if you working class and doing that because. You're just feeding economy that's keeping you Paul. Yeah, and that's the thing is the economy. It's it's more of a capitalism. Isn't it heard you jason talking about the idea of a lot of music becoming gentrified. And but that's a financial imperative to make stuff that is accessible to everyone that doesn't exclude anyone. You know what I mean is the soundtrack for your financial bracket. Polite, inoffensive because that'll make the most amount of money i. mean there was talk about the middle class taking over the music industry and you get into attacks on middle-class. Band. So artists, but there there are law working class over imagine especially in the experts culture where a large amount of people applying for these things are from working class background. Yes, which is fine as well. Now they are. Middle class spread the all like a big majority of the people feel like copy have more equipment home to make you think just defense because I've got a very middle class podcast. Right okay. Okay. I mean it's It's it's sort of being comfortable. Isn't it? It's not really it's not. Having to worry. It's like, leave me alone. Let me just get with my nice little life. I'm going to engage anymore with things that matter but you see I feel as if the climate change protests give the light of that. A lot of middle class people are they worry all the fucking time? Yeah. Sure show. Staff you know what? I mean. They are engaged with these things shift in like rap music growing drill wherever you know it's been a massive resurgence and I would say that that would be more of a working class. Thing. West the middle class rap. WHOA yeah. I mean. There's a gap in the. Year and so why Guitar Biden's they largely ignored because they're still in the vein of sort of. His Brit pop type thing or the more traditional approach to songwriting you get in the Corner White Guitar Banzer focused on now seem to have clearer accidents and just seemed to be very interested in not that kind of white working class band. Sherlock or something like that or interest in but you know they're not as pick up by the media as say. I'd some ally. You know I mean who are largely more grafting towards middle class type thing. Yeah. I think it's important to have these buns as well. Sure that's The working world that's the people were having kids and should be a soundtrack. Eighties Kid. I had a great time Bro Yeah. What we listening to everything you know how? I'm forty seven. Okay. So you're a tiny bit younger than me but yeah, I was listening to it was really fun used as Jason. To. Knock seven. For yet it was great growing up in the eighties because you had such a strange diversity of music. Charts. Really good soul and Dance Music Man Oh. Yeah. You know and we'd sit of experimental music and ought to pop. The. What the hell is not like bands like landscape Timberland. Yea Mine Steiner Elicits. Flying Lizards. Wanted to be more decadent analogous didn't I? So. Even if Paul, you didn't WanNa, show the poor wanting to. Make a video that look alike. Yeah. Exactly. was that. It was like that's what you're getting from Spandau ballet and what were you're listening to in those days Jason just straight monster freely yeah. Jam motown. And sarky ability. Bands, Meteo 's chiefly kink. Guana. Batz. Toll Boys, which were an offshoot from the meteoric Najah Lewis Sta fly that. I didn't stray from that ruling that good scene think he was pay group pressure initially, and then it became quite passionate about and was it kind of all encompassing like did you see our 'cause everybody else's? You just wore Fred Perry smoked Benson and hedges. You're bowling shoes and you will tapered trousers and you all those art school and in school. And White Sox. And then what we doing of an evening. Won't do I didn't I didn't start until sixteen Hanging in there. Hanging around memorial. Yeah. You both nothing. I'm from grand. Of I'm from a village near. Lincoln. Move to Nottingham similar time but didn't meet for like twenty years right because we're living in different scenes. Yeah, yeah, and then when did you graduate from that psycho billy seen into something different and? When I left school I worked in a factory for a year and got into hip hop. Obviously DEF jam come along. I got massively into that discovered James Brown. And started listening to anything that was coming from the DEF Jam Label Really. Then after a year of fat, you work for thoughtless know what's factory where it was fresh foods factory that was supplying ready made meals for Manassas. Worked in the BUTCHART. So yeah did that on an off Right up until. Two thousand eight nine. Well you up to at that time entry or just thinking this when a Smith's came along and listen to the smiths for years you know the kind of ruined my life as a Master Smith. Funny. You listen to anything else because you just obsessed with that band. Yeah. What was it about them? Relate to commute from Lincolnshire and Feeling, detached from the world. Idaho, she qualified Lucky O'Shea around there in the middle. And then FRY pennies is. Safe. Enough pint glass. I would they throwing pennies at you because I think like a coconut shy Joe Oh. I got you new kid feel free to leave these gift behind if you don't want them. I won't be upset because sometimes you get out Christ now carry that. You dial. Phone. Analog Synthesizer. Fantastic. So you don't have one of these. What's stuff? Do you use them? To Build. Used to disuse acid this program record acid just like a multi tracker. then like. The IPAD to came out. On Our Because it's just amazing since and when you've got no Muni to a nine for Moog. Right. Space sounds that's. Based home. So I placed the. But I'll just use anything. You actually played the basis it. On. Most depends which truck it is. Produced. BY CIAMPINO WHILE SPLIT? A. To spice lines yeah. I've switched on so so rather than the old style. Yeah. This one produces. It's a bit more like a little mini moog thing. So, you can really screw around with the sound. And you've got some very. Options as well. Well, thank you. Just. Thank you. Didn't. Know even the train. Big, time it made me think of you guys. Those minimal strange yes. Slightly harsh sack you very rich and. How does it work like you will put a piece of music together and sort of just say, okay, this is two minutes thirty year and I'm happy with that. You thinking about where Jason's going to sing or you just justify Brearley I'm pretty sure it's something that alike and so you get an MP three or something do you or what we? Debate. Ideas. He's just loves him in there and then I'll just. Keep going to them. I'll make an initial idea of it straightaway on most. And then I'll keep thinking about it and running around my aired then I'll go back in our record an idea over the top of it, and then I'll just keep modifying until fearless is good enough, and then we check it to the studio and then Andrew has the final say really. It's just it's just on really quickly to go to the studio I wanted to ask you a bit about some specific tracks. Yodok. Okay. Talking about the story of some of the some. Yeah. She'll. Okay. So kebab spider, which I mentioned earlier I really liked that video guidance jumping around because I'm one of those guys. But a Lotta people I've noticed think you are saying one point I think the lyric is who knew who knew yeah. But in your accent, it sounds like you're taking the. One saying. Yes. Yes show, which is weird. narcissist British Alex for some people that dialect. Yeah. Changes so. Birds. It's quite nice little accident now in. I mean I'll do say who law that will. Just depends on whether you can be asked to pronounce it properly submit nothing. New. You would normally say it line access easier and just didn't think people would even think about it but it became a thing din funny. Is because in their mind, you can see that they're already putting their expectations of what you do onto even something as tiniest that's telling. US taking. Incredible new. I think is funny though. A, when you think about. It I don't. Always talk. Talk. Wanted. One thought it was I wanna Canary Tight me away from it. I don't WanNa to near some WANNA come in. and. WanNa go navy. No I don't WanNa Cadaver. It? More people out there that WANNA canary. Great Grand. New Seven journey you know. There was big thing was it was a big thing? To older people's has in you just hit. Tropical concrete hell. Gun make up again that's an accent thing. Yeah. That's from key markets. Yeah. I'm going to do the middle class reading of lurks. Riding motorbikes from the fifties you live in Colton Utah at. Snake? fucking. Shit. You look like rocket from the crypt. Thinking about what those those lines is that just at a local ban. Lands. Knocks commendable your code. They would just tell the that missed it. Customized themselves to this look. been and gone all. Rocket from the crew. Was Retro and rocket from the Crypt did. Every now and again, it comes back around. Doesn't it? Yes. Black rebel motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah. You know who else John Spencer Perennial Rock it is. It's very theatrical low soon as you see a band come out like that, you do think that was the thing with black rebel motorcycle club. ACT Like we're going to take you seriously look assurance stop in the costume. We played a Gig with them. There road is were lining up all instruments you can remember. An asset to one of them and he tells us he got them may just didn't even Samantha we've also. You. Then he did that thing where they went on some awards show and coal mono-syllabic remember that no up in their the enemy award or something like that. But they either, they were giving away an award or accepting one, but they did that thing of turning up and feeling like. They were too cool for it So they couldn't they had to sit be weird. And in those situations, you think, well, don't go to the awards. Means style with courtesy and the awards once. Dave Stewart received award by young from. The STUCCO keyboards next week Paul, and like a silk. Interesting Getting the award, not style yeah, Yeah Yeah. But then you know you still. I. Took the award. And said thank you as well. Brilliant. Well the performance later with jools was the thing that a lot of people saw that they hadn't seen you guys before. Yeah. I certainly saw that and I showed it to a few people and it was like, no disrespect to the mighty later with jools but it I sort of stopped being. Used by law of the band on look great bands on me but very seldom did you watch it and think fuck you out yeah, show. And then you guys showed up and it was just great. Was that fun doing. It was. nerve-wracking. It was. Yeah. It did feel like I did feel like it was a big exposure. Yeah. It in that room occur before the second track. Gills student attract with some guy at the Piano Combo Bundy was but they were doing it and I was just It looks across the room and lobby siegfried laughing at me. Who's doing the head wobbled scientists Head leaders in your body follows. Movies. It's good sort of. Snuck a breakdown. Guns moving in the Robo Yeh. He was like crying with laughter why was doing? Artist guests such a positive reaction from backer. Something a little. Background with. The point. Now. Is. Not. Performed as it. Was Yeah he plupart mind. It was crazy. I was thinking Jesus is. Yeah Yeah. It was like guess. Praying against the Great Wall in it. All history then. it was great and the thing as well. That was I mean there are so many memorable things about that performance and seeing it for the first time. But I, guess the intensity of your performance Jason with your ticks. Yeah. You'll sit a slap slapping your head which I suppose again. The tradition of of someone like the Curtis. Intense kind of performance where it feels as if you're channeling something else. So. It was to remember the words that's how it developed, and for some reason helped me breathe before learn how to breathe properly in my stomach. Kicking your body in torch every time you felt you a lot. But it would also help to remember the words. It was like a comfort thing. It was quite a different way of doing a vocal suppose I can nearly Deja because that's wanted to wrap. Wasn't exactly rally came out of the way. It did we realized very good and it was fresh Graham for both of us. Just use. You do that I'll do this and was there a discussion Andrew about what you were GonNa do like in the early days we? Did you say like? I should pretend that I'm doing something on. CD rank playing gigs in wasn't there esp to to stunned with. So. Kind of developed. Sort of naturally evolved into what it is. People say now what? About Avenue Guitar. No. Why are we going to ruin it? You don't need. Especially, as you suspect that half the time when you're watching DJ's doing a performance. Any no no. I've done that when I used to deejay sometimes and I make all the mixes before Yoho Tools, and then I burn a CD at sometimes I was even having a conversation with someone at the decks and to say hang on a second I just segue because I knew that there was one. Pretend us. Smooth, okay yeah. I think. A lot of people do absolutely. Yeah. And it's interested that. I think I think a lot of electric artist like appreciate a chewed because what you're saying and. I think the fact that I'm not even pretending. Yeah DIRAC tree glance technology. Yeah. Video. Barrett. Ungodly. Stellar please we finish up around six o'clock. There's still wants to do. Jesus coming. So volunteer to finish off on May that you're. On your own chip off. No problem of. spoke. To listen. To. Do what you all mind. Yes, you fall cough tomorrow lyrics for you. Some of these plants have burned. I might need to have a number two on your Lu-. If that's all right sister. I think that was a little more information than she needed but I'm pissed and this is hardly informal setting. What's going on in some of these burnt well I agreed to go out my mate Cook we'd. Cut It yeah. Of the Sahara and so. I think I owed him money. Fixing cocaine and plus he promised me a free rap, the gram of cocaine for did. Not Dot rap now. From Pratt. An. And I thought well. I didn't have any money all at blow it all on drugs at the start. So the rest of the month was just work and then stain can if I got lucky for manage to scratch your tenure of someone who is this in your Twenties Thirties Early to mid thirties. Are could go out on a Saturday or Sunday you know, and this also offer the chance of being cooperative three tennis is well so. We got to this woman's hours and he was in partnership with this woman with weed? and. So we're it and yeah and that's what it was just thought. It was quite banal experience really but the saints I mean, she was shown this video of this this woman in sex with Hall. Kept showing me and it was like and then dot com at one point. So we to hide in a bedroom and may sound a bed with these miracles on it was surreal and why Weird era. Yes. then. Go for a toilet. and. I didn't feel guilty about it. Can't turn your. Job. Straits all. Best Way. Tweet tweet tweet. Find an exit. Twenty fourteen. Again Good Fun boy three style chanting on there. Like the lunatics. yeah. Is that what you were thinking it was it was it wasn't the idea but when we did it sounded like. which we were like Oh fi. It's great. I was listening to more specials lot. Ton hunk and I think that's where it came from I don't or why Descend from boy free role than the specials. Good sound and then is that the mattingly connected with sticking five and go would you say the twitter thing social media thing or is that? Yeah. Yeah I would. Say that. I've done. It wasn't a conscious. I think just that you live your life on your phone, I do anyway yeah. Ordering an even bigger today and I'm. Going to get one of the folding ones. Withdraw. Go. Apple. No, it was. I think it was a Samsung wasn't it or something like that? That's foldable. So. It's just this any now known size of it's double thickness. Just unfolded, and then there's a screen as it connects in the middle double. I. Why is that going? To retry more but then everyone mocked the ipad is being pointless when it came out and sudden everyone's Oh. Yes this is great. Yeah. I mean you've got loan and you you use it and I think one of them because he's using that looks really interesting. But He's a lot more technical angie. Yeah. He likes his gadgets stove. Do you spend a lot of time on Social Media Jason homes here? I'm just only on the talk in foul start notes in. Do we own facebook anymore? Spend more time on facebook than anything else in a hated. Facebook I never post on it constantly going that's off a few days post on it, use it. What you doing you're reading other people just hating. Yeah. Especially Giorgis Day God. As crash so we use a you interacting though you down voting stuff or or giving thumbs up. I'm not occasionally like someone you just reading stuff and getting getting wind. Twitter, an Instagram, I find them quite direct. On I'm like I'm done now that's why to facebook because it's just like twitches horrible as well. It could be on there forever. Yeah. Twitter as well as star report you've got some ongoing we're going to die. We're all GonNa die or some ongoing well, the Conservatives and then bullet points by many people killed and Blah Blah Blah. But sticking a five and go is is amazing. Fantasy that you have about? Yes. Yes. Course because you when you're in. Trouble when trolling you. And you're you're not going by, but then you go back and combat with similar. The only thing that comes springs to mind is kicking the. Is the only thing. That's GONNA. Win for kick the shit out of the. If I hit him are win even if he hits me not fall down and he wins it's her more because of Shelton of turned up to his assets punched in turned into. Yeah if he's hard to the me, it will have shocked him. Too. Because that is part of the nation isn't it? That's the thing that eats away the gutlessness of it when when people just blast something yes. Yeah and yeah. How little thought it's taken on their paw and how how would never do it in real life time. that wouldn't wouldn't dare to even the people that quite handy wouldn't do it. You just want to do not normal human behavior is it to Tomato Broil? Yes we'll do it. I mean I've trolled loads of people but since we've got big stopped doing it because folks, this is very nice. A lot of the time that some of the negativity in the annoying stuff you see on social media as people trying it out like they probably won't do that their whole lives and they'll probably have that same piffle did yeah, and thing actually. Yes there forever, people are going to use against people, but it's already happening already seen careers damaged and destroyed by things that people have said the Sean when they would just piss and they. Show could even trawling as well could not into like. Thing. You know the end of the day people just have to get the message that they have to be of more respectful to each other. I suppose. Yeah. There's a book called surveillance capitalism. Have you heard of that? It's less about that whole world of people getting in arguments and stuff and more about the waste that. Google and facebook harvest your data. In order to sell you things essentially and they're getting more and more sophisticated, it actually being able to build up a profile of you and your behavior and what you're into so that they can predict what you might be into and they can target advertising much more precisely which I fully welcome because I'm there every day going Oh mark believe that Nice? Jacket Palmar. In that funny. I know for world doing you know the thing is. To find what happens with those the day he gets it gets sold as what package. You know they take Salah to another company, and also there are so many potential negative consequences for them having access to that kind of person Yater. Don't you feel that you think differently in the social media age your your two different interactions that you've had with people online zero zero to constantly woke is an Erin and all caring all philosophic colo open to a more positive perception, which is in Stein to annoy me a bit. You know yes. Because it's just not lot in the real world. I know what you mean. Our generation thing I think younger people are lot more positive. Online experience they published spend more time looking at positive things that have been happening right and then more, and they're engaging with ideas and movements that needed to be engaged. Yeah. It's weird for us the people are. Having to make the transition. And it's sometimes it's annoying. But. It's making probably it is true. You know why? Spend all the time looking horrible stuff online when you could be looking at. All the achievements people making every day stuff. You know no one looks at us. They look at us. So No. Videos more fun than yeah. Sure. Win A. You guys up for. Doing a song to. Now in this kind of situation where sat alone in this little venue in the Kings Cross just men you guys sat there opposite me is it weird doing this kind of thing. Okay. Good Bad just a little guy with the baseball cap grinning at yeah. That's me not. Back Yeah okay. Sports. The show what? These. Kids A. Firm leg. told me I was. For the rest of the. Ultra just. Should OPEC A drive? Chancy CPA'S DRESS SNIP QENA FIVE Sticky. Five job. They can't evolve. Oh. Speaking of thought been. Sticking to five and. Five. Around. It was I. Thought. We, thought. Suburb Uniform Royal Body. Sans We. saw. So with cash underdogs. Folk. Sticky. The. John. Speaking. Woods. Sticking. From God. Speaking of. Balto. Twitter feed. Off Package for. Mr. Trie. Dress. Cut You. Song. Out. saw. Five. Speaking in a five. Five. Kim. Gina thought were. Speaking the. Job. Count. Sticking. Lost the. G The. Don't. Stick. Dark. Set You. Apart. To Cassette your. Way To. Portrait. Walk. Up to. Talk About An. He. Prayed. Talk. Off Weight. Loss. Think up to. Talk about it. Talk about it. Out The. Sports. The. Yet. The petrol station. On. The spot. A smart talk. Talk Patty, but. About it the. PGA. Sports. We never get the. Again. Off. told. This. As. Tall. Skulls. pulled. TURBOT side. Paul says. Stalls. A. TURT- told this. They. Case. That's the. Case Tolls Assault. The. Told Spot. How they both? Calls. Tall. Talks. Off. You. Today on important Info Pot, it's a name. The turned on thousands of podcasts would does squarespace actually. Susan. Tell me about squarespace while I make strange noises. So square spaces, a website and you go on there and if you want to build a website. And why would you want to build a website? So you might WanNa start a blog or create a page for an upcoming event. Or maybe make an online shop, and so you can sell some. Can Shit you've made. Is squarespace easy to use. So yes, it is using templates and drag and drop tools. You can create a professional looking website and less than half an hour. Susan can you try squarespace for free? So yes, you can ha- by visiting squarespace dot com slash Buxton. And when you're ready to launch us the offer code, Buxton to save ten percent off your first purchase. Susan thank you. That's all I need to not. Continue. Rosie. Flypast from the HB. Hey welcome back pod cats that was Jason Williamson and Andrew. Fun From Sleep mods talking to me they're back in. April two thousand nineteen. Very grateful indeed to them for making the time to talk to me it was a thrill to meet them and an amazing and memorable experience for me to be. Sat, alone in a room. Watching them on the stage performing I took a couple of crappy pictures on my phone and I will put them underneath the description of the podcast on my website. Adam Dash Buxton DOT CODA UK. If you go to the podcasts section of the website you will. find all the episodes there. And with all the descriptions and the links etc for each episode. And gradually because this is a relatively new version of my website, I'm I'm sort of getting to grips with it and I hope that I might be. A little bit better in future at You know fleshing out those descriptions with a few more bits and pieces and. Photographs and that kind of thing. But there's links there. As. I said in the introduction to. A couple of documentaries about SLEAFORD modes. Bunch of, const. Directed by Christine France. That's really good. I would recommend that one and invisible Britain. The documentary from two, thousand, fifteen, the I haven't actually seen. Looks Good I'm planning to watch it. That's on. Video. and. What else that is oh yeah. The interview with Patrick Wagner. Of the German band give out that I mentioned at the beginning of my conversation. With Andrew and Jason Fitz also that. Video of Johnny Rotten. And Marky Ramone. And Henry, rollins, all these. Confused Looking. punks. From Twenty nineteen. Also. On my website Paul from. Amazing. Bonus episodes of the PODCAST and bits of bonus audio. And a lot of my favorite youtube videos that I've made over the years. And a lot of sponsored jingles and things like that. That I like you will also find details of upcoming shows. I'm still supposed to be going on tour. Greeting from my book and reading other bits and pieces. In the spring next year. And those tour dates as they stand are up, there's still a few tickets left for some of those shows. I also have. Yeah. I also had this live podcast coming up. IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS With Suzy Russell, comedian susie Russell. I'm talking to her as part of the UN mute podcast festival. On the twenty first of October, two, thousand and twenty, nine pm. Looking forward to that. Hope, you can join us. And of course, on the website. You will find a link to. The much store where you can buy a variety of Adam Buxton podcast t shirts. and. mugs and. Posters variously designed by Helen Green who does the podcast artwork and drugged. They're very beautiful. What else? My hands are freezing. It changes. So quickly doesn't it? Why many is nice and the next many. Not, son is. But it's still quite nice look at the look at the beautiful clouds collars. As the sun starts to set out here in East Angula Some of the clouds look bruised. We know how they feel. Don't we listen. Hey look. That's it for this week. Thanks very much indeed. To Shameless Murphy Mitchell for production support. To Anika Mason for conversation editing to Helen Green for her podcast art work to a cost. For that continued hardwork and support with this podcast. Thanks most of all though to you podcasts you're nice. You're the best. Friends. Let's have a safe. Hug. Come on come on. I'm a little bit rainy but. I think we need to have a hook to. Third that's my hugging voice. All right listen. Take care. And you may believe this, but it's true. I love you. saw. then. Her Mama Thumb. I. Wealth.

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EP.118 - MALCOLM GLADWELL

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:12:57 hr | 8 months ago

EP.118 - MALCOLM GLADWELL

"I did one more. Gye vodkas bend. Now you have. That cost out and started listening. I took my microphone. Found some human then. I recorded all the noise while I name is Adam. Buxton I want you to enjoy. That's the rosy. Let's go a different way today because we this field you go into that. I'M GONNA come on mixing it up going off the track into a field. I think the field is not being used at the moment. Sometimes there are cows grazing up here but not at the moment so lovely day. Warm quite windy. Oh actually they're all cows here. Rosie. I didn't realize there are cows. Let's get out of the cavs field. They might have cow Rona virus. What that's not a funny joke Rosie. Everyone come on get. Hey how you doing podcasts. At in Buxton here back on the beaten track we belong out here in the east of England towards the beginning of April. Twenty twenty. I'm going to cut to the chase. 'cause I've got to go back and continue working on my audio book. Still hoping to have it available for you in the next few weeks couple of days ago I remotely recorded a special bonus edition of the podcast with Joe Cornish. I sent Joe the text of my book so he kind of interviewed me about it. Rose to me a little bit. It was fun and the idea is that that's going to appear as a kind of exclusive bonus podcast at the end of the audiobook well. It's quite windy now. But it's Nice hot wind anyway. Look I am not cutting to the chase my apologies. So let me tell you about podcast. Number one one. Eight which features a compensation with Canadian author journalist and Kosta Malcolm glad well dodwell facts. Glad well currently aged fifty six was born here in jolly old England to a Jamaican psychotherapist mother and an English mathematician father. They moved to Canada. When Malcolm was six he went with them. They didn't leave him behind. Malcolm worked as a journalist at the Washington Post before becoming a staff writer at the New Yorker magazine. I've said it made it sound as if he was working as a journalist at the Washington Post when he was six but no that was a while later. This is a very condensed overview Malcolm and his achievements he was a staff writer at the New Yorker from nineteen ninety six onwards. It was that year that he wrote a couple of articles that would become the basis for his first book. The tipping point published in two thousand or the year. Two thousand as we used to call it. I mean you can say the year about any of the years. But with two thousand for some reason felt obligatory the tipping point subtitled. How little things can make a big difference considered how and why certain ideas and types of behavior catch on and spread? Dare I say it virus like I do say it. Throughout the culture the book was an international bestseller and contained several themes that glide well would explore further in his subsequent books. Blink OUT LIES. David and Goliath and more recently talking to strangers all of which consider one way or another. How behavior and subsequent successes and failures can be influenced in ways. That are surprising and counter intuitive. Malcolm's latest book talking to strangers was published last year. Two Thousand Nineteen and it features several case studies that examined the tools and strategies. We use to make sense of people we don't know and assess them and how those tools and strategies can sometimes prove disastrously inadequate rose. Let's go this. Way is a big old puddle. And I'm frightened of my conversation with Malcolm was recorded at his publishers. London offices last November. Twenty nine thousand nine back then. One of the big news stories was about the possibility that Donald Trump might be impeached. Remember that The olden days when there were lots of different depressing news stories instead of just one now my conversation station with Malcolm got off to a slightly strange start in my mind at least hope. It doesn't sound strange because he told me that I had been described to him as the British version of the phenomenally prolific and successful. Us podcast and stand up. Comedian Joe Rogan. And I felt that it took me a while and maybe him a while as well to come to terms with that comparison and how completely unhelpful it is nevertheless it was exciting to meet. Malcolm whose books I've enjoyed for many years and we talked about among other things the questionable value of Manas. Why it's good to go to school and we touched on some of the objections occasionally voiced. By critics of Malcolm's books we also talked about a few of the case studies featured in talking to strangers including the champ to that considered the suicide of the writer. Sylvia plath in one thousand nine hundred fifty three and how something as serious as a person's decision to take their own life might in some cases be affected by seemingly trivial factors. We talked as well about why it was that so many people found it hard to believe. Amanda Knox was innocent of the murder of her roommate. Meredith Culture in two thousand and seven. And how in Twenty fifteen. What should have been a straightforward interaction between Texas policemen and Sandra Bland? Young Woman who had done nothing wrong ended with her being found dead in a police cell three days later but before all that Malcolm began by infusing fulsomely about how much enjoyed being in cosmopolitan London. Pops not realizing that. If he'd really wanted to impress me he would have been eulogizing about how progressive and hormonal life is in Norwich which it is back at the end with details of a new spotify playlist created for. You know that's fine. You're welcome and a live video streaming podcast appearance with Richard Herring coming up in a few days but right now with Malcolm glad well here. We got man road taste coming to London. I come to twice a year live in New York. London is so much more effortlessly. Diverse me New York is held up as the great diverse American city. It doesn't hold a candle to London. It's really interesting. I wonder whether British give themselves enough credit for how the society has been transformed with a relatively low level of stress in a very very short period of time. It's one of the great. I think it has to be considered. One of the great accomplishments of the modern world in the postwar era was a a complete demographic transition. I mean other societies. Who would have tried? This would've ended in chaos. I mean in America tattle with Donald Trump in part because of a overreaction too much much more modest demographic transition well of course out in rural communities in the UK. It's a different story. Yeah and that's part of Brexit. That's part of the Brexit. But still even given that you would always expect there to be some backlash. Yeah always that's human nature on. That doesn't surprise me. I'm just saying I think you what the English should pat themselves on the back. For how mild relatively mild there backlash has been Do you get a sense of London as a harmonious place. Then I do. I find it much lower finance travel around the United States. A Lot My Job essentially and I do find. The city feels far less anxious than many American cities when it comes to things like race. Yeah and you know. We have managed here in the In this country now. Yeah yeah tradition of being well mannered and can I go? I know I was being glib but I was GONNA feed that into talking about talking to strangers. Yes and suggesting that maybe there was something to do with how the world on the whole is becoming less formal and less concerned with manners and thinking of mammoth is actually being a hangover from rather more uptight class obsessed time and we can dispense with those now and actually may be. That's made it more difficult to interact with strangers Manas. We're an important part and social codes. Were an important part of easing our interactions with people of different backgrounds and classes and races. And all those kinds of things yeah. Matters is a very interesting subject and the most kind of polite society were often the most divided dangerous ones. So you know the most dangerous part of America for example historically as the south but the south is has a tradition of gentility and excessive politeness. And everyone's supposed to smile at you and they smile at you because they're terrified of you you know because underneath the surface is this long history of all manner of Nastiness and racial conflict and class division. So it's a luxury to be able to get rid of manners because you can get rid of matters when you've kind of resolve some of those under lying issues. The other thing I'd say is generation Lee would always strikes me as there's all this hubbub about political correctness in the digital generation. That's their version of manners. And it's a lot truer and more authentic than the previous generations. The previous generation used manners to cover up a lot of nastiness hostility. This generation says enough with the surface presentation. Why don't we solve the underlying hostility? Which I really like and every time the kind of yes that has its excessive moments. But it's a much more socially ambitious project and I applaud it. I mean enough with the fake manners. I mean can we actually deal with the underlying fact that require nasty to each other below the surface yes it is a a social system constructed around the very problem that I'm interested in looking at in my book Which is how do you account for the fact that we're really bad at dealing with people? We don't know so one way to do. It is to have all system of rules that kind of guide you through that process but it gets harder when the rules get thrown out the window. It does although I agree with you about the the so-called political correctness era that on the whole the benefits vastly outweigh the drawbacks. But one of the drawbacks is that a new set of codes has been created. And you do feel sometimes when you meet people who are not from your own social background whether they identify differently in terms of race or gender or whatever you do feel especially as a white straight man privileged white straight man like shit. I've got to be careful if you get it wrong. You're you are allowed to say I'm a middle aged straight white. Man helped me out and people are quite forgiving. I think if you if you appeal to your to your obsolescence. I often think about you. I've I've read your books Since the tipping point came out thousand. Yeah I got into the habit. Went audio books. Became a thing of of downloading those as well so it read them and then I listen to them and really enjoyed them in that medium and audio books and I think. Podcasts are very good at colonizing people's thoughts and form. What feels like a really real friendship or relationship with the person you know what I mean. And you'll books very much stick in people's minds and inform the way they think about the world and look differently at the world after they've read them and so one of the ways I think about your stuff is when when I look at design like do you think a lot about design. Give you an example things like toilet paper dispensers in trains. Every time I see one of those in the UK. A lot of the train that I travel on. Have these little square metallic toilet paper dispensers and they pack the paper and much too tight so that winning. Try and pull one sheet out. It's impossible you have to pull a whole water out. And it's a total waste of paper the floor or the toilet is just covered all these bits of these taken up critique with the railway management I've written several lessons and you have really. I haven't I should you. Should I should. I was wondering if you ever think in those terms if you'll brain works that way everything you see in your life. You know if you're if you're looking deeper at all those things or if it's just generally kind of social psychology no I'm actually it's funny because on the things that are regard my work. I am as you just quite excessively perhaps analytical and obsessive and all those kinds of things but on stuff outside of my area of expertise. I'm the opposite. So I am the most uncritical reader of thrillers. My capacity to enjoy it a bad movies almost unmatched when I get on the plane and I look at all the movie offerings which are invariably they system. If if he'd pick the worst movies often on. I'm perfectly happy watching you know a kind of dubbed Hong Kong fight movie. I have no problem with that whereas most of my friends would sooner jump off a cliff and read. Watch one of those things so. I'm outside of my areas of interest. I'm the opposite if my brother says a bottle of wine is okay all drinking. I won't you know I don't bring to the table. All my powers of analysis to every single thing. Yeah okay. That's sort of disappointing. I suppose I mean I was imagining you. Going to see star wars or whatever and doing an analysis of where the franchise has gone wrong. We're ten minutes. I've already disappointed. You know what I really love about. People Exporting People's area areas of expertise is I like seeing that version of my analytic self service in someone else's area of expertise so I have for example. I just read name Steven who's a screenwriter. Brisk screenwriter and I'll go to a movie with him one's GonNa movie with Stephen and I thought it was fantastic and afterwards I said well it wasn't that great and he said normally he's mellow EST charming easy going southerner and he turned on me and he said absolutely not for seven reasons. Here's why boop boop boop and it gives like seven kind of you know incredibly insightful vicious compelling impossible to argue with reasons why this was the worst movie maybe he'd seen in like five years and it was like it was. I still remember. It was like so magnificent. I wish I had captured on. And it was just like that was his area of specialty and he could see something. He was watching a different movie right. I mean he was a now. But that's I find that whenever you see someone in that mode I find it. I find it. A lot of my journalism is about finding people in that mode and observing them in writing down their peculiar reactions. I really enjoyed talking to strangers and I think it's one of your books that do you have an impression of what people think of your stuff. Is there a very particular way that you are characterized? What is like for example? Glad willion? Oh Yeah hate that where you show. That was invented by one of my publishers. In a weak moment the I guess I mean people those who like my work. I think they get the fundamental thing about all my books is that I find the expiration of ideas particularly difficult ideas or counter intuitive ideas or ideas. That might be wrong. Maybe in part or slightly to be really fun. I I don't mean funding I kind of trivia way but I really enjoy the process of playing with complicated ideas and people who like my books are people who share that joy so I did an event at the at Southbank and of this long book to was the most fun and it felt like everyone in the crowd. I don't think they're necessarily agree with everything I write and say but they were there because they like me really enjoy the play and the kind of joy that you can find in looking at things in a different way in adopting a different set of lenses maybe even just for the moment in turning something upside down and seeing whether you still agree with it I mean all those kinds of things. They were along for the ride. I feel when I sense that in my audience I feel like I'm being understood and where I'm misunderstood are people who don't who somehow haven't picked up on that sense of play and who get all kind of Huffy I suppose the objection the I've seen level that you before. Is that your stuff? It has elements of kind of social psychology and academic analysis. But then it's presented in this popular and easy to understand way. And that somehow seems like you're cheating or something this is hardly kind of unexamined elitist critique which is it shouldn't be so popular. You should be ready in. Such A to Doni appeals to a fraction of the audience which. I don't even know how to answer that. I mean I would always wants to do like the art which sometimes I get right and sometimes I don't is that you simplified in a way that doesn't lose obscure the fundamental meeting of what you're writing about but you can't if you represent a complicated academic notion in all of its original complexity. No one would read the book. My father was a mathematician. We actually this joke. We use his textbooks as doorstops mother's house and I would always joke cause I would go on Amazon and I would say to my dad. Your book is ranked three hundred eighty five seven hundred sixty one thousands. And you have you ever thought of doing something to boost your rate. Could you dumb it down a little bit but the point is he was writing for an audience of a couple of hundred? I guess most very very serious mathematicians. That's his job. That's not my job. My job is to write for all of us. And so the accusation that you could level it professor grahame grabow would be. Could you please simplify it? So more than two hundred people could understand it but That is as illegitimate as the as looking at me and say why. Don't you make it so hard that your book will be read as it infrequently father's? Yeah it's weird. Isn't it that you'll within certain disciplines academic or creative it really still is frowned upon when you start introducing elements that are not seen as as traditionally belonging there? I went to art school and I did sculpture and I would make a video installations and things like that. But they were generally quite silly and funny hopefully but that was frowned upon. It was like no. That's not what we do in the art world aren't serious. We do a mild a short digression about art school. Sure so you must know this. Every time I run into some kind of English musician population of a certain era and just happened to be twice. They all go to art school. Yeah and then. I had what comes in one with Brian. Eno and he has a whole theory on this. That the English art schools of the sixties were the precisely because of a long explanation of how they were organized and what. They encouraged people to do that. They were this is actually the reason for English. Dominance of popular music do you. Do you agree with this Yeah Saad subscribe to that. It's a fun place to just try things out and it doesn't have to be aren't especially you know the the assumption when I was at school. It's like you're only go to art school if you can't get into a proper universe yes you know. There's two kinds of artists. There's really super talented ones. Who are going to paint beautiful paintings and make lovely sculptures. They'll get into the slate or the Royal Academy and makes them proper art in inverted comments. And then there's the chances who a toothache to get into proper university and they'll go off to some art school and Piss about taking photographs of their genitals but the extorted success of people who came out of that generation of art school suggests that they were. I mean in the end. The cultural contribution from the art schools was much greater than the cultural contribution from the slade. Yeah right it was not even close exactly because this lady was all still. I'm generally don't know what I'm talking about. I've never been to this late. But the slate in the Royal Academy suddenly became these uptight places that were more concerned with technique and craft. Maybe than they were with ideas. And that's where the sixties art schools really started thinking. Actually look you can make an art which is about ideas and that will be a new way of expressing yourself a new way of creating things like whereas in the past it was all about brush strokes and neither and I want what it's showing is the virtues of a certain kind of messy nece that the the formal art schools had a very strict idea of what it meant to be good and a very strict idea of what it meant to educate someone and prepare them for the profession. The world you came out of was the opposite. Didn't really have a clear idea of what good was took. The people who couldn't get into the slate and didn't have a incredibly narrow definition of what their function was. But rather it was a place that allowed for experimentation and I feel like this is said that way it sounds really obvious but I feel like this is a lesson that just to lose us over and over and over again we forget that all the magic that comes from messy nece and from delaying predictions right. Whoever said it was a good idea to try to predict whether someone was going to be good at something at the age of eighteen. Right you can't look at eighteen year old Brian. Ferry and understand what's going to happen. What you can do is give a place where he can muck around and experimented. Meet interesting people and figure out what he wants to do. And that's like that's the kind of lovely thing about the feeling i. This is just all on a level of of me patting you on the back. It's thanks very much. I appreciate these obsequious moment out of the way. I agree with you though I agree. It's I think that so many he pull you know the the culture tends to be obsessed with people who knew what they were going to do from a young age and with clearly good at something or had a dream or had an idea of what their life was gonna mean and those the people everyone you know you make films about. You don't really tend to see too many films about a guy who was or woman who spent twenty five years of their lives just pissing about not really doing much and then grew very gradually and slowly becoming good at something you know what I mean. There's a lovely theory by American economist about art in which he distinguishes between what he calls experimental innovators and what's his other term. But the the way of understanding it is he says if you look at geniuses he says they fall into two quite distinct camps. There are the paradigmatic forms of these. Two camps are because Oh and says on the Picasso's are the ones who have a very clear idea from very early on what they WANNA do. It's revolutionary they rearranged the world and in that idea is expressed very clearly and quickly in their career. So because he was doing his best work in his early Twenties Cezanne's our experimental innovators and they're people who can never tell you what they wanna do. They don't know themselves. They have some vague thing that working on. But it can't work it out and they go away and they painted obscurity for decades and then he finally figured out at the end of their life so Suzanne's greatest work is all done in his fifties and sixties right. He's the exact opposite of Picasso and this guy says both are legitimate but as a society. We tend to be obsessed with the Picasso types. Because they're precocious because they can stand up in the full bloom of youth and say I see a different world right and we forget about these other types who contribute every bit as much but the interesting question is so these late bloomer types if we wanted to reorganize the world to give the late bloomers there do what would it look like an answer. One of the ways it would look like is more articles on. Schools seemed to be much more favoring the late bloomer types because they're giving you like I said time to mess around and figure out what you want to do as opposed to the slaves are the ones that favor the The ones who have it all worked at here. Yeah it's so odd that we you know the expectation that you should have things figured out at eighteen was set at a time when the life expectancy was forty. So that's reasonable. If you're gonNA live to your forty I wanNA do by eighteen. That's halfway through right. Well now if the life expectancy is eighty-five then I don't know we should maybe people a little more time to try to work things out and we shouldn't frowned on people who want to experiment in their twenty s as opposed to commit. I think maybe sometimes you'll work is characterized by detractors as being the obviously you know you said pointing things out that a glaringly obvious and people are going. Well you know ten thousand dollars yet takes a long time to get good at something or they can pick any number of things from from your books and go well via and what but the thing that always happens when I read your books. Is that any preconceptions. You have like that are overturned in the course of doing and that's half the fun of it. You start thinking oh right okay like the example in this book in talking to strangers. You've got several case studies that shed light on how and why. Our interactions with strangers sometimes go wrong. And one of the cases you talk about is Sylvia plath. Yeah and that's towards the end of the book but I thought why is this in here? Like how does this fit in with that whole framework for the book and also one of the things you talk about the idea of coupling which explain in a little bit but before understood about that idea? You're talking about the fact that maybe Sylvia plath would not have taken her own life if she'd been born in an age where there wasn't a certain type of gas that was available carbon monoxide rich. If it had been a few years later perhaps she wouldn't have taken her own life when when those kinds of cookers weren't there and I just thought well that doesn't seem right at all surely if someone wants to take their own life. That's a bit more profound than what kind of Cook they have. Access to Did I convince you otherwise? By the end of that section one hundred percent in a really strange way th th then asks a load more other questions that you can't obviously deal with all of them. Yeah talk to me a little bit about that. And what made you think about that? Case particularly an and why that fitted into the thesis of talking with strangers. Well I'm trying to understand in talking to strangers why we're so bad making sense of strangers and I I offer a number of explanations. First explanation is we evolved to believe people. That's just how we were our constructed as human beings that makes it hard for us to deal with liars. The second is we're not good at reading people's facial expressions. We think we're good or not but this company has a third one. The idea of coupling is that many behaviors are tightly up with very specific contexts. And unless you understand the context you can't understand the behavior and I- illustrated this a number of ways. But the one you're referring to is. I was discussing this in the context of suicide so our common view of suicide. Is that if you are someone who wants to take your own life you use whatever means is available right if you can't jump if there's no bridge around jump off you'll jump in front of a train if there's no train to jump in front of you'll overdose on pills. I mean you WanNa take your own life and so you just go through the options until you find. One turns out that when we look closely at suicides and suicide attempts. That's not the way it works that people who want to take their own life have a fixations on very specific methods and if they're thwarted in the use of that particular method they won't go and hunt down another method so the classic example of this would be the place where more suicides have happened anywhere else in the world of the last hundred years. Is the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco? Thousands of people have jumped death off it and for the longest time. The idea was that it would be pointless to put up a suicide bridge prevention fence unabridged. Because if you couldn't jump off that bridge simply go to the bay bridge is a bridge. It's three miles away and you jump off the island and then someone did a study in which he interviewed people who either survived the jump or were prevented from the last minute. Seven grabbed them before they could jump and he simply asked the question. Did those people who were intending to kill himself off. Golden Gate Bridge and were thwarted simply killed himself some other way and the answer is almost none of them did. In other words they wanted to their desire to take her own life was coupled to a particular moment and particular place and denied the moment in the place in ninety some odd percent of cases they never again tried to take her own life and the thing that seems ought about that idea is that we think about someone who is considering suicide quite rightly we empathize with you know with Distress and sadness and hopelessness and we think that must be a very extremely profound feeling to make them think about ending their own lives. And the idea that it's connected with those circumstantial considerations seem somehow to trivialize that. Yeah feeling that they're going through. It shouldn't diminish our empathy simply says that suicide the decision to take your own. Life is an extraordinarily complicated one. That is a function of a large number of factors chief among your own personal emotional distress but your ability to successfully execute. What is a profoundly? Difficult Act is the result of many other factors outside of your control. The availability of to take your. It is not an easy to take your own life I would reverse it and I would say that once you understand that fact. It actually makes a profound difference in our ability to minister to those who are suffering in this way because all of a sudden now we have a way to help them. Because if I understand. Oh your decision you wanted to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge today and if I can stop you from doing that today I can make a meaningful difference in your chances of getting through this difficult period whereas the old idea that says you WanNa take your life find whatever means possible is kind of defeatism. It says well. What's the point in preventing you from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge? If you're just going to go to the bridge down the road and jump off that one that's defeatist and in some way it's about giving up on these people whereas this view says no never give up on someone who is in this kind of dire straits because they're evidence suggests that if you could help them through this difficult moment they may never revisit. The starkness again. That is such a powerfully beautiful message about how to administer those who are suffering But plath took the plaster is a version of this you know until the mid sixties almost all. English homes had what were heated in. Your oven worked off town gas which was full of carbon monoxide. And so if you wanted to commit suicide you put your head in the oven and thousands and thousands and thousands of people in the UK did committed suicide that way between the twenty s and the sixties Including Sylvia Plath. So what happened when town. Gas was swapped out for natural gas which has very little hardly any carbon monoxide at all. It is now almost impossible to commit. Suicide is taking your head in a gas oven the OB would been oh those people would have just moved on and committed suicide some other way and the answer is that's not what happened. The overall suicide level dropped. So that's why I suggest that if Sylvia both had been in her dark moment just a few years later when town gas was no longer heating her apartment fueling her stove she might not have taken her own life Right I mean. It's kind of weird thing way to think about it. But I think that's the logical conclusion from this particular analysis. It's unsettling to think that that's the way that important things might actually work in the world you know. Maybe that's behind some of the objections that people have to your stuff sometimes and they just think no. Surely it couldn't be. These trivial circumstances couldn't affect things that are so important to the degree you suggest. Yeah it's odd. It's one of the. I'm almost attracted to those notions those ideas where there is a discrepancy between what the public thinks. And what those who studied issue. Think whenever. There's a gap I think. Oh what an opportunity for me. That's that's what I do. I try and bridge that gap and this understanding of suicide is one. Such example where lay opinion is out of step with what the research says he talked about the Amanda Knox Case. Oh Yeah and you think she was guilty. I don't know there was so many weird prejudices at play and one of them was definitely to do with being so attractive. You know what I mean. It just seems so weird to have this woman who looked like a kind of film star the center of this case and then she was not behaving in the way that you thought an innocent woman should be behaving in this situation and all those factors conspired to make me think. Yeah she's probably guilty isn't she? She just seems like a bit of psycho. Yeah and so. Of course you talk in the book about exactly that and about how she wasn't sending out the signals that generally in society. We agree that you would send out in those situations. Yeah she's an example of what the researcher Timothy would call mismatched behavior. We have the best time the easiest time in understanding people whose behaviors and matched whose facial expressions body language comportment is consistent with what they're feeling or or is consistent with our stereotypical notion of what how you ought to represent those emotions people who smile when they are happy and frown when they're sad people whose jaws dropped when they're surprised these kinds of strangers were good at making sense of but there are lots of people who are mismatched who don't represent their emotions in the way that we're expecting so Amanda Knox is classic example of a mismatch person she was. It's safe to say now. A one hundred percent innocent. She had nothing to do. Despite the protestations of the British tabloid press but only. In retrospect the Amanda Knox case is the nature of the British tabloid press. Their behavior was so irresponsible so appalling. I mean I can't even to go back. And they were books. Written by members of the British press on his case. That in retrospect are so absurd and the effect was an innocent woman. Went to jail for four years in in Italy because the also the Italian police shared these. Same Ludicrous notions. Amanda Knox just a weird immature eighteen year old. And she was upset and grief-stricken as anyone else but her distress and grief manifested itself in a different way. Why because she's Weird. That's her crime. She someone who with her roommate gets murdered unexpectedly. She's in the police station the next day. She deals with that by kissing her boyfriend right. I mean I don't know. Is that it appropriate. Sure does it. Does it qualify you for four years of prison? No it doesn't does it. Make you guilty. No it doesn't. She got bored while waiting for three hours in the police station and she started doing yoga exercises and then the police saw her and thought. Oh why is she doing splits and this must mean she's guilty no she's eighteen. She's bored and she can calm herself down by doing yoga exercises. I mean every level. This whole thing was completely absurd but the larger point is there are lots not to people like that and they are the ones who get wrong and getting people wrong because we have this. Incredibly narrow sense of what is appropriate. Behavior can have real consequences. I just couldn't get their heads around the fact that this girl who she's not autistic doesn't have any of Diagnosed condition in that way. That might young. She's young but people still. They couldn't relate to. How could you be accused of murder and not be looking mortified and restricted? Yeah and frightened and this comes up all the time in people who are on trial for some kind of heinous crime And then the jury will give them a very harsh sentence because the jury will say they didn't show remorse happens you know countless times. This is another good example of what I'm talking about. What does remorse look like sad? Face I mean but it's a preposterous notion. When a dog feels remorseful we know what that looks like. Yeah you're right though is knows drags along doesn't look you in the eye or at least that's how we think the dog exactly exactly because it looks like a caricature of remotest but human beings can show remorse and any number of ways who is to say that if I feel genuinely remorseful it's GONNA show in my face in some kind of predictable way. What if I'm someone who actually is capable of deep feelings of remorse but that's manifested in my case with just a look or a nervous smile? I mean why is there? One Way to represent a complex emotion as a test. When I was doing my book I called up people who study facial expressions and so whole community of psychologists. Do this and I said to them and they have a language for describing facial expressions so there are forty-three muscles in the face. You know use an is a name for every muscle until they construct these long chains of d five with sx Yahoo the next one. Something something and I said well. What's the definition of remorse and the civil? There isn't one we know what you know. He wouldn't know what a satisfied smile. Looks like? We know what deep distress looks like. We know what exotic we don't actually know we don't we don't have A. That's something that that's just kind of. Only in novels and bad television shows is such a thing. A clearly identified facial expression called remorse. Yes but but yet we persist in pretending that it exists. And you don't show it up inappropriate moments. We're going to put you in jail for another five years. Yeah Talking to strangers is bookended with the case of central planned. Yes so for people who don't know about that case. Could you explain what happened with her? Yeah that is If you remember the Ferguson case that let Dole's riots in Ferguson Missouri which was a young black man shot by police officer that led to. This was a string of these high profile cases in America. Following Ferguson and one of them was this case. Bobbing woman named Sandra Bland. Who was young woman WHO FROM CHICAGO? Who had gone to a small town in Texas to apply for job and she's pulled over by police officer in the middle of the day for failing to use her turn signal and then the police officer comes up to her and they have a conversation and then it turns into an argument and the police officer Yanks out of her car forcibly arrests her and then she is found dead in herself days later having taken her own life. Yeah taken and the whole exchange was captured on the officer's Dash Cam Video. And so we know exactly what happened and you can watch it online. I mean it's an extraordinary exchange. You Watch in the space of forty five seconds a completely harmless encounter police officer and someone who did nothing wrong. Turn into this. I mean just blows up in front of your eyes. It's such a heartbreaking case and it's so stupid because she says thoughtful educated young woman in a sleepy Texas town in the middle of the day doesn't put her blinker on when the cop pulls up behind her. I mean it wasn't in a dark alley. It wasn't you know ambiguous. She wasn't carrying a gun. She didn't just rob a bank. The notion that something like that could go completely off the rails. When I heard about that I was both incredibly angered by that. I'm still angry about that. Case felt that I had A. I could play a role in helping to understand it and also felt like there is no more perfect example of what. I'm talking about what I want to examine then. This is a talking to strangers problem to police officer completely misunderstands who? She is doesn't understand her motivations or intentions. Her personality doesn't understand why she's upset. I mean it's just a kind of its textbook and so I use that a beginning to end with that case and a frame the balance of the book as an attempt to really figure out how a harmless encounter between strangers could go so wrong. The cop he's pulled over because she took a illegal right or something no. It's actually worse than that. He sees that she's from out of state that she's black and she had rolled to a stop sign but she was still on the property of the university that she's coming out of he can't stop her there so he he puts that together road to stop sign young black woman from Chicago in a Hyundai and says oh look polar over so what he does is that she's driving down the highway. He pulls up really fast behind her and she thinks always on way to an accident or something and pulls over to the side of the road to let them pass and doesn't use her she doesn't signal signal and then he says a Ha. I got you and then pulls a pint or and she's like understandably. She's like wait a minute. I was trying to get out of your way. Why would I use a turning signal when it's clear that when a cop comes up behind you you get out of the way and so he traps her tricks are really into committing quote unquote offense and she's upset and she's had a history you know you can't be young black in America? Not have a history of being pulled over by police. She's had a history of this very thing so she's just thinking. Oh no this all over again. And this is the most ridiculous of these things and so she's upset and he understands that but he thinks he reads her disquiet as being evidence of something militias has in defiance. And he doesn't like that and like that and then this is a generational thing I thought about this a lot. She lights a cigarette and twenty years ago. You and I are both old enough to remember that people smoke cigarettes to calm their nerves and if someone in a stressful moment lit a cigarette we understood. Oh they're trying to calm down right Well in a world where few people smoke. I feel the social meaning of that gesture has been lost so here. We have a twenty eight year old police officer. She likes to cigarette and what she means by doing that is. I'm trying to calm myself down and deescalate the situation. So it's a sign. Actually she wants to cooperate with him. Resolve this and he sees. He doesn't understand the social meaning of lighting a cigarette. He thinks Oh she's essentially giving me the finger music. I'm going to blow smoke in your face. You Jerk Right. It's not what she meant to do. So this is another. I mean on the list of ways in which he misunderstand this number ten but and even if it was what she meant to do who cares who cares and it's right and you can smoke in your car right and he still is obliged to maintain professionalism in order specifically to stop the situation from escalating unnecessarily yet to avoid everything that might lead to something worse cases interesting because you can analyze it on three different levels. One level is this is not a peace officer with strong interpersonal skills. That's the level. I'm least interested in if only because it's the most obvious but I think that that case also permits us to ask a lot more searching questions about why would we put a police officer in a situation where he was required to make sense of someone's complicated feelings a strangest complicated feelings in an incredibly short period of time. I mean that's crazy like what the playoffs was trying to do. Is is impossible right. He was trying to size her up and decide whether she was a criminal or harmless in twenty seconds. And that's crazy. You can't do that right. You can't if you see a gun but do anything. He sees as a cigarette and he still crazy jumping to conclusions. And one of the things. That's happened in American policing over. The last twenty years is that police officers had been trained to do that very thing. They had been encouraged to be really aggressive and to go into situations and stop seemingly innocent people on the faint chance that they might be criminals and that is a virtually everything you hear from afar about the deterioration of relationships between the African American community. Law Enforcement is a result of that style of policing right. They've asked for trouble and in part. This book is a kind of response to that attitude and sort of asked the question. Why we continued to perpetuate this strategy policing. I mean of course you know. No one is suggesting that it's an easy job to be a cop and to be running into so many different people in so many different states. I'm not thinking states geographically in emotional states. You never know what's going to happen. It must be extremely frightening and unpredictable but yet the answer is not a default to this kind of mean paranoia paranoia right so easily just I mean immediately rubs people up the wrong way. My thing was always in this country. A lot of the cops. being Catholics. I don't want to be in trouble with the cops but The cops do this thing of just this kind of patronizing attitude of stupid prequel. Oh dear right. Yeah so When he got safe yourself stupid prick and you begin to resist the very behavior. You're trying to prevent right right. That's the thing that the people who are particularly young people respond to the environment in which they're operating the great conclusive fascinating conclusion. And I talk about this in my book about the Ferguson case. When he was finally examined by the Department of Justice the federal investigators was that the officer who shot the young black man was actually justified in shooting him. The young guy had attacked him essentially and try to take away his gun and they wrestled and fought and criminal. Charges were not filed against the police officer at the same time however they detailed patterns and practices of police behavior in that town which was so socially corrosive so morally bankrupt. I mean they were basically shaking down the black population of that town. In order to fund the city's budget it's Phillips coffers they were stopping people on the flimsiest pretexts giving them outrageous fines treatment with no respect and so that they can create an environment where they had destroyed whatever trust existed between the police department and the general population. And that's why the young man goes after the police officer because he's he doesn't respectively. It's officer because he's comes lives in a town where there is no respect between the police department of the general population so these things are connected and I feel like we spend too much time focusing on the the particulars of that interaction between an officer and a citizen in too little time thinking about this. Broader contextual questions. Yeah how do we get the? How did we get there? Yeah something that I've said to people about your stuff before is that I feel as if it's encouraged me to not only look deeper into things in a valuable way but also to start over thinking things in a way that is sometimes almost paralyzing. You know what I mean. Always happy to help this piece before. Though why do you make people think so much? No it's just that it's like thing is a good thing I'll accept back but you know it seems as if people now don't like that feeling of being unsure of things and what your stuff does is encourage you think there are different ways of looking at almost everything that we have traditionally taken for granted you know and so. I wonder if there is a connection to be made between a kind of rise in pop not saying that this is directly your fault. I'm saying that you know there's a wave of populism in the world at the moment and it seems that part of what's behind it is people wanting to be sure of things and gravitating towards the leaders that shout the loudest and who claimed to be the surest. And a lot of what you do in your books sort of the opposite. It's like saying well e Copy. Sure about anything really. It's not that I'm a nihilist. The things that I believe in are not the conclusion I believe in the system through which we reach conclusions so I'm dogmatic on the importance of curiosity and dogmatic on the importance of having an open mind and being willing to examine your conclusions and I'm Doug Matic on your responsibilities. A human being is to try and understand others on their terms. Not just on your terms so those are principles that guide a lot of my writing. And that's what's supposed to stabilize you so even as I'm saying you know what to think about suicide. That's very different from popular. That's not supposed to make you throw up. Your hands is supposed to reinforce your belief in the importance of kind of free inquiry in curiosity so I think in you know properly understood. That's why I think that's what draws people to my writing and that's why it isn't. It shouldn't leave them unhappy and anxious it should do. The opposite should kind of redeem their faith in the human enterprise. I mean yeah. I wasn't suggesting that it is I. I certainly wouldn't call it nihilistic. I'm a mischief me. I mean there's a lot of this is because mischief stirring up the pot to kind of. That's I think that's what you're saying. Also I don't know I just get the feeling like reading a lot of Some of the things that people on the right might say or some of the objections. They have two people a characterizes lip. Todd's progressives or whatever. They thought themselves into a hole and actually what they need to do is go back to a simpler set of values. And you know and that's how you end up with trump. Who says like not honor. This is all bullshit thinking too hard. It's pretty simple. What you do. Is this put these people over here? That low over there and he's always in the last couple of weeks. I feel like trump has melted down to it's an open question who's melting faster the polarize gap or. I never thought he was unwell before. And I'm now beginning to feel. He actually is. Something's not right on. The basis of tweets will the tweeting behaviors. Now out of control. There was a day recently where he tweeted eighty two times if any other human being tweeted two times you would take them to. The doctor would say there's something organic here we have to explore and you know he stopped going into the office. So you have the Oval Office on one floor and your apartment. Will you lives on the floor above going to the office is not like you have to commute getting on the Tube and run you know walking down the stairs yeah okay. He stopped walking down the stairs. He now doesn't leave his apartment. He sits at his apartment eating McDonalds and watching Fox and has stopped going into the office because he no longer trusts his own. Aides Jews at just crazy. Do you think there's any chance that trump will get impeached? I don't think he'll get impeached but I don't think he's GonNa win the next election right. Okay think he's going to lose You've lived in New York as I have for twenty five years. He was in our lives every day. He was in the tabloids every single day. He was a constant presence. He was one of the most visible people in the city was so closely identified with the city. So anyone from New York has a very different understanding of trump than people who discovered him for the first time when he went on television when he was elected so I feel like a grew up with trump and his buffoonery was sort of has been on full in public display in New York since the eighties and he was hanging around the worst nightclubs hitting on Porn Stars and his friends were just the worst of the worst and he was just spending his dad's money. I mean he just like there was sort of like anyone has no illusions about him. We never so this thing. He did when he transformed himself into kind of tried to pretend to be someone who can speak knowledgeably about public policy. You can buy that if you learn about him for the first time in two thousand fifteen. But if if you're from New York you'd like Oh God knows he's GonNa self destruct. The guys just lunatic. I was interested in a twitter exchange. You had off from Steve. Bannon was pulled from the New Yorker Festival of ideas in two thousand eighteen. So this is David remnant the editor of the New Yorker was going to have a debate interview. Whatever you WANNA call it with Steve Bannon who was trump's former advisor Breitbart guy. Some people call him a white supremacist. Certainly has those links and the sympathies with some of those people anyway a controversial figure at the very least and so there was a lot of objection to him being part of this New Yorker Festival of ideas and David Ramnik eventually bow to pressure removed. Steve Bannon as this headliner. And you tweeted. Call me old fashioned but I would have thought. The point of a festival of ideas was to expose the audience to ideas. If you only invite your friends over it's called a dinner party and then you tweet it again. Joe McCarthy was done in when he was confronted by someone with intelligence and guts before a live audience sometimes a platform is actually a gallows so I was really interested in that because I thought that that summed up a so much of the differences at the moment going on even within the left your whole no platforming thing the extent to which you should engage with someone you disagree with. Yeah and how do you feel about that? I has your opinion changed at all. No I still would support that. The thing is there's a difference between uncritically broadcasting someone's views or presenting them as we were just talking about now. That trump got a lot of this kind of uncritical exposure which really just had the effect of drawing people to him and giving him statuary would not otherwise have had bannon was someone who is an enormously significant figure in the sense that was probably as as responsible as anyone else for the election of DONALD TRUMP. And so if you want to understand how trump got elected if you're radically opposed to trump you still wanna talk to Bannon because you've got to figure out. How did this happen you know? What did this guy do so? He's he's not useless as a discuss int- he's actually. I think potentially extremely interesting if the discussion is done by someone who is capable can ask them questions you know. I was just on this tour earlier today on a BBC programme noon Politics Show and the presenter his name is Joe I think she had a series of politicians. You know you cannot get away with anything on that she was so uncompromising and on top of things that no one has a chance. So someone like that you can have anyone you want on that show and if they don't represent their case intelligently she'll cut them to ribbons right rennick same way more than intelligent enough to make sure the. Steve Bannon does not turn that particular platform into a way of promoting his own brand of white nationalism. He's also capable enough to use that to productively trying figure out. What can we learn from this man that will help us repair? The damage has been done to the American political system. Under those circumstances I am wholeheartedly in favour of conversations between people who are politically difficult. I'm not in favor of them when the person doing the interviewing is gullible or naive or he'll prepared did you watch the the brink. The Steve Bannon talk of new. I haven't quite good. That's got some interesting stuff. Direct by alison claiming. Yeah Yeah I imagine. It was inappropriately bracing rigorous. Well I I think a lot of people criticized that as well for not being tough enough on him and she got criticized from both sides. Peter saying it was a hatchet job on Bannon and then other people saying you know the left saying gene platform and she should have done and we deeply have such issues with the platform. Yeah you can't hide your head in the sand these things are going on. You have to understand them you know. Imagine in scenario I talked about Neville Chamberlain's visit to Hitler in nineteen thirty eight and how he meets Hitler and for a variety of reasons among them Chamberlain's own naievety and he wasn't an expert in foreign policy and his diplomats over in Berlin were in the pocket of the Nazis and I sincerely doubt whether he'd read Mein Kampf for a variety of reasons he gets taken by Hitler. Posible overs is what? How would we have felt about a scenario in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight if Hitler had come to England and had been interviewed on the BBC by one of these really kind of crack journalists that the BBC? Has You know someone who knew what they were doing. Walking through the absurdities the contradictions the outrages of Hitler's position in nineteen thirty eight would really have gone a long way towards educating the world. In particular can you imagine I mean? If the Americans entered the war a year earlier it would have been over a year earlier right. Something that would have gone along might might have gone a long way to convincing. The Americans of the moral enormity of the Nazi threat there a clear situations where exposing someone with noxious ideas to rigorous public review is in our best interests and my suspicion. Was that the remnant interviews in that category Did you have debates with your own friends about that? Oh Yeah you should see. I got so many hilariously nasty responses on twitter and so many of my colleagues at the New Yorker disagree with me that there was a there was quite a sharp divide. Did they explain that point of view to your satisfaction? Though did you understand why they had the position they did. And I'm intrigued by the extent to which it was generational The younger people were just more. We're more interested in. Don't give them oxygen. Yeah adds more. That does seem to be really interesting way. That fact gives me a little bit of pause. It makes me think. I sure I'm right. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure I'm right My instinct is to say he should show up but the fact that there is a very large body of people who I respect. You think otherwise does make me think you know. I'm I'm persuadable but my my initial thought is I. I'd rather air these things and deal with them in a rigorous way in the pub. I feel the same way. But yes I I mean. I'm conflicted about almost everything and we've established it. It's mainly for the right. Human position is to be conflicted on nearly everything weight continue Hey welcome back pod. Cats Malcolm Clarke dwelled chatting to me the British Joe Rogan. I think he realized by the end. I'm not the British Joe Rogan. I couldn't tell if he was pleased about that or disappointed. Anyway I was very grateful to Malcolm for his time. I do recommend talking to strangers the audio. I mean I do like his voice. I must say that was one of the slightly unsettling things about meeting him was just how familiar. I have been with his voice in various forms over the years. Listening to his audio books and his podcast. I find his voice very relaxing. Yeah the audiobook of talking to strangers is well worth ago and you know tipping point. It's a good one to start with. But there are things in that book that he has since revised his thinking on one of the main ones being a chapter about the so-called broken windows policing strategy. That took place in New York in the ninety S. And Jon Ronson the journalist and friend of the PODCAST talked to Malcolm about exactly that in two thousand thirteen for an interview that John Did for the culture show. I've put a link to it in the description of this podcast. What else have we got in the links well linked to Malcolm's revisionist history podcast lot's of good episodes of that Linked to the audio book. Well there is a link to a new playlist that I've created for you. Putt cats cold to buckles nice weather selection featuring some of my favorite bits of music to listen to when the sun comes out and spring is beginning to take hold. I don't know there might be a few things in there. That'll be new to you. What else. Oh yes. There is a link to Richard Herrings twitch channel on what you'll find various bits of video that he's recorded. I don't I'm not really familiar with twitch Have to be honest but I'm going to be on it this coming Wednesday. What is the date kind of lost track of dates Wednesday? The eighth at eight. Pm on Richard's twitch channel. He and I will be having a video chat. I didn't realize it was a video. He sort of said look. I'm doing remote podcasts. Then I hadn't properly hoisted on board that it was a live streaming video podcast That's not my preferred medium. Rosie still chasing pheasants. Come on let's head back but It'll be nice to see Richard and waffle with him for an hour or so on Wednesday and I imagine that after it's been streamed live. The video will sit there on. Richard's twitch page for you to check out if you feel so inclined what else. Oh yes lincoln the description of this podcast to the Adam Buxton podcast merchandise site where you can find still. I believe copies of a new signed limited edition poster by Luke Draws and I think that's it okay back to Audio Book Work. Now thank you very much indeed once again to mouth. I'm glad well thanks to shameless Murphy. Mitchell for his production support. Thanks to Matt. Lamont for additional editing on this episode much-appreciated Matt and shameless. But thanks most of all to you for downloading this episode and for listening to the end back in a week or so with another slice of hot waffle until then wishing you all the best hoping you'll keeping safe now. I'm going to exercise my privilege of being out in the middle of nowhere being able to shout extremely loudly that I love you point talk.

officer Kosta Malcolm America Sylvia plath UK Amanda Knox London Texas cavs Joe Cornish Adam Canada Buxton murder Washington Post Golden Gate Bridge Twenty twenty Ferguson Sandra Bland
EP.92 - JAMES ACASTER

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:20:23 hr | 1 year ago

EP.92 - JAMES ACASTER

"Mall. Gye podcast. Now, you out that podcast out and started listening. I took my micro and found some human. Then I recalled it all while. Name his at Boxster. I want you to joy, that's the. Hey, how you doing podcasts? Adam Buxton here. I'm the host of this podcast. Thanks very much for downloading it. Nice to be with you. Again. It's a cold day out here in Norfolk in early may twenty nine team, and it's been raining all week good for the fields bad for Bacholles. Rosie doesn't mind she just boings around whatever the weather and now the crops is starting to grow. She is bouncing in the long grass and in the fields full of why I don't know. What's in the fields is it? We'd maybe I've lived in the countryside now for over a decade and still couldn't tell you the names of most of the trees animals and. Plants in this area. I don't say that proudly. It's just a fact listen, I'm going to crap on more the end of this podcast. But right now, let me tell you about my guest this week for put cost number ninety two the British comedian James e Casta James is currently aged thirty four. However, he was thirty three when our conversation was recorded in London. Last November twenty eighteen James grew up in Kettering Northamptonshire, that's not too far from us out here in Norwich James studied music at Northampton college and played as a drummer in various local bands, including pin drop three line whip the wow scenario and Capri sun. Coretec he talks about those days on Richard herrings podcast that he was on recently. He's been on a couple of times James started performing comedy towards the end of the two thousands. And by twenty twelve he'd be nominated for best newcomer at the Edinburgh fringe with his one man show prompt. This is just selected highlights. You understand James was a regular contributor to comedian. Josh Widdicombe 's XM radio show, which ran between twenty thirteen twenty fifteen and a collection of some of the stories that he told on that show will compiled in his twenty seventeen book. Classic scrapes James. Also had a show on FU Baugh. The internet radio station in two thousand fifteen in which he invited guests to put their ipods on shuffle. And talk about what popped up, and you can still hear those shows in podcast form, albeit with the music removed. But it's still good to listen to nonetheless. And even more a Casta can be found in podcast form on his hugely popular series off menu in which guests talk about their favorite food. Food and dining in general with James and comedian Ed gamble who also hosts the show in twenty eight teen net flix released repertoire consisting of full one hour shows that James filmed in September twenty seventeen showcasing the best of his live material up to that point. In the meantime, James has appeared regularly on UK comedy panel shows and more recently his appearance on the Jonathan. Ross chat show has been an indication that he is becoming too successful. I talked to James about his school days and his religious background and his teenage excess -sential crisis. We talked about cost stereos James's quest to find the best music of twenty sixteen which he has written about in a book and the joy of sulking as well as much other enjoyable business. In fact, there was so much great conversation with James. That I've put another half an hour's worth in a bonus episode, which you can hear on the Adam Buxton app. It's a free app which enables you to listen to all the previous episodes of this podcast as well as few jingles, and some of my stupid adverts, there's links to some of my amazing videos on YouTube, and there is slowly expanding library of bonus podcast content on there too. Like whole bonus episodes, some of which you have to pay a small fee to access all the money goes to the fellows that run the app in my blog, and this James cast, a bonus will be available for a fee of ninety-nine Pence and on it. I talked to James about his ipod shuffle show, and we had to go doing it selves. We also talked about ought and provocation the Kayla. Burning a million quid Tracey Emin Yoko Ono and Maria Abramovich and James helped me workshops new jokes. So you can listen to all that via the Adam Buxton app in the bonus audio section, but anyway, back to this episode who was the first time that I'd met James, and we were exchanging pleasantries and light introductory chitchat as we sat down to record. And I was getting the Mike's ready and all that. But it was one of those costs moments when I didn't do the formal. Okay. We're starting now. And as you will hear James was a little thrown. Which reminds me I need to get prince Archie a present. Okay. Here we go. We start. This might be amazing stuff because I'm catching you in a city semi now. Now state. This is one of those kind of soft opens what American. We started yet. You're freaking me out. Then he's. Deliniation between entertainment and real life. And this is blurred. It is weird. How you switch to a different voice. Yeah. That's why I was confused because I'll tell you a halfway, right? Shifted up gear in a Casta mode. Yeah, I can feel it. Even though we the same people that. Yeah. Little more energy. Yeah. But less than they would be if there was an audience there yet. But then you'll thing when you're on stage is to kind of maintain a fairly low, energy appearance, superficially. Yep. Is that fair? Yeah. Think so. Although like if I do too much of that in the gig really grinds to a halt to an I have to remind myself that I saw you on Conan the talk show in America. Yes. And you had five minutes there, and you blazed through your stuff to the double time. I would say is there pressure to do that. I mean, I'm not that's not a criticism. No, no, no. That was a very hard gig. And I wasn't getting many laughs. And if you watch the thing, you can't tell as much then if you watched someone else on Conan, then you really notice the difference of like how big the are forever. People in how long did not have a very. Good show. And so I was kind of going for a bit quicker because of that. But then it was still too slow for them. Really? Yeah. They were still whole thing. Kind of just didn't click with that audience. Toy did not like it. But then I really stuck to my guns. And so like, yeah. If you watched that clip, it's a guy really stick into his guns in the face of all then like within half an hour after that chip myself in the steakhouse. It was a factor. It was a factor went from that McCord to steakhouse my agent to the times he wanted to go there and shit my pants. On food poisoning. And then always in bed for a week. Really? Yeah. It was bad. Eventually when I was like, you gotta get out this flat 'cause you cutting here. You can't just pay in your flat. You're supposed to have me gigs council and then one step out and some teenagers walk past and when roadways may. Shafted, Ron Weasley. Yeah. Out good. Because that's what happens. You don't like anything like runways to get it so much. It's just if members of the public really funny in a state, we wouldn't say like they've got. That doesn't work quite figures. Good enough. They just see a guy with ginger hair. And they you had the Rolodex spent. All I'm getting is runways Lee. Okay. I'm gonna shout that always have. Have you show it at me because they could've remember on nine? So they would just our films bigger for knows one Weasley, it's fine. But like, you know, we'll start out. Harry Potter show at me before got to the mic some nights quite common. Never Rupert Grint never put grin poor guy. Yeah. Got it was he he he was the one of the favor is rarely spent his money. Little city. He was very extravagant loads and loads of cars. Lots of light colored away saw an interview magic cards. Yeah. He had like a bright orange car that he bought and apparently he sold it and asked him what you're selling. It went to color. The Weasley mobile must be visible. East to have a car an orange car, a Ford Fiesta was my first car me and Joe were doing our TV show at the time on channel four, and we did a song code Roscoe, which was weird country and western tire thing, and we made a video for it that was vaguely country and western themed. But it incorporated elements of the dukes of hazzard wrought, great said, we sprayed the car, orange light. We took it to a guy, and he said make it look like the generally from the dukes of hazzard, and so he sprayed it all up and put all the decals on. And so you've got the confederate flag on the top per the real generally. When was this? This was late nine when I should have known better. Sure. But didn't and then a friend of mine came over and looked at it. And she said, and she is German want the facts of your dot com. And I said, well, we it's like, but generally, you know, sticks hasn't for video. Yes. But the flag fucking flag. That's a racist flag on the car. And I was like oh com on it's the Asser. Asser today off the noon TV, they were good old boys. Never meaning no harm. She said you got the tank that flying off the top of that congress fucking offense. I love the places. Of the inventors gerbils. Well, it's very twang of head invaded. Yes. Yes. Her name is Nora. Hi, Nora if you're listening. She's married to the lead singer of Travis. This is Fran Healey, isn't it? Yeah. Wants to the radio show will gum Pertz radio show. Arts correspondent and abscesses something on his gums. It was really hurt him hurt to singing. And so is son was there with water with a store in it? And he would stand. Casually is put in front of his data supported go away. It was quite sweet. Sometimes it would miss time. It wouldn't be ready for the war say it'd be talking in the interview to see the stool to wiggle whatever is slowly push away. Like kind of harmonica brace. Wavering around. We'll come puts a light will compass when people can make fun of to his face on his show. So I like going on there, and I will go because you've got a very strong look crusty the clown. Yeah. Yeah. Vampire, clown. A book and will attack it on the cover that said to add is human to to for the book isn't. So that was right because this is your book. Classic scrapes. Yes. I it was a book about making those mistakes and stuff. Yeah. So that was the tagline and will read it on the radio when scrapes to air is human to era enough to fill the book. So james. Missed out the final word of that. And it be looking at you like. The full place Bill, and if you can't be over to tackle. And I've got little hope for you eat in the whole book, if I'm honest, use left. No, no, no, no. No, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No, no. No, you weren't aren't school. There were you know? No. I went to Monte's golden catcher in which is now in a kademi. Now, it's an amazing place. What's the difference between a school in mcadams gonna kademi has to specialize in something and much facilities? So in Kettering few academies as science academy. There's a sports academy, which is my old school. Did you pay them Royal visit and your celebrity capacity. I was film in an online thing called sweet home Kettering series where we went back to catcher in and visit oh, my old haunts. And so was my school. And how long was it since you had been at the school? Oh, that was I left school in seventeen. So it would have been pound thirteen years. I right long enough for a pretty intense hit. Yeah. And there's only like three of my old teachers as well. So like China them in like didn't we like school? I was a good student. But I didn't like I never kids inside that some of them might be listed. How you doing? But like, I'm sensitive so it didn't deal. Well, with the fact that you make a little steak and everyone's on you when your teenager when you're at school. Also, we we lounge in older for. Anything no matter. What you do? I also couldn't sell your one friend Hobson contact with from school. But yeah, I kind of I think going back is like nice. But it's not like, of course. So many great memories. I wanted to re connect to anything. We you Valona not really not quite definitely quite well liked by a group of friends who you know, all the time. Story. Most coming sit with the funny kids and just like make jokes the whole lesson. But do it enough that we didn't get told. Right. You weren't a disruptive influence. I was one of my teachers send me outside very come. Not tell me off this laughing. Loft in the cold, James. Yeah. Extols, my friend. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent stuff back in. But it was quite bad, actually. It's kind of framed another kid, visually, whatever it was something out and she sent out another kid in a genuinely bulletin for. Okay. And then he said it wasn't me. Me she came into his. Oh, yeah. She this laughed riches. People found funny was. Obediently tight the bollocks. But then when she come up. Yeah. The thing, of course, show with it. Didn't wanna get wiped it that badly. Yeah. But you weren't getting in trouble enough for your parents to be worried about your where your parents ever worried about you. I don't know probably most. So after school when a crush my first car, and I wasn't six months after that. My parents are worried about me in what way. All right. I couldn't stop think about death. I was raised Christian, and I'm not anymore, but at that point churchgoing Christian. Yeah. But like non denomination kind of like hippy of church. Okay. Which I liked really loved it. I love the music and singing into that. I couldn't really saying. I really like watching the band play convoked band like we call germ kit from the church started learning, the drums and just play drums for biting. Tila, did stand up twenty eight. Almost always playing drums wanted to Pazzi no day. So I loved that was sketches in the do comedy sketch in the church loved watching those two when at one point enjoy that groovy Christians that cut of. Yeah. That was a thing in the kids Sunday school. Why for when you go out the group, and we had to like a profile of ourselves almost to go on the wall. And one of the things was a hair yet say who you're here. I was and all the other kids wrote Jesus, which I did not know with meant to be the answer and odd volume Williams. All of the whoa. What else how Jesus is here? So what was the nature of the accident was bad? It was written a free cars and the last two much more severe crashes, but that first one Scampi mail. My own was going around a corner too fast, and like bashing up into a hedge and stuff and at one point balancing on to right to wills with the car, and what could've voted didn't. Well that was the time for. Glad that my parents weren't angry with me, and then went to tech in music Prentice at the local college. And so I went there. The next day told them what happened like it was funny. And then I remember it snowed that day. Walk into my friend Grimes car afterwards slip on the ice back. A lotta people laughing at me and me think it was funny as well. And then getting in the car with Graham these battery was Dixie lettuce lights on as we had to wait for the laughing at an awful day. We've had it isn't that funny got home late because of that and on my family gone out there doing something in the evening general been left me in the oven. I on my own Washington up in the sink, and there was like the window, and it was dark outside just my reflection black mirror thing and looking at myself, and then suddenly go could it be dead? Could've digest today. Emphasis months are couldn't stop thinking about what happens when you die and that we will never understand life or how infinite the universe is an all that stuff. And that's all always thinking about all the time. And like during that time of my parents didn't really know what to say sometimes, and they were trying to kind of hide that they were. Concerned about me. So I was at Tim with Jordan weird and quiet. We you asking them though for counsel. Yeah. I was and if I didn't know what to say, they would set me up with other people who did know. So I'm going to Vika once in chatting to vicar and him to spend. Well, you know, sometimes people kind of just go away from Christianity. And sometimes they come back. It's funny. Really does like look at him watch like figure you should have more to say he was seeing it as a crisis of faith. Yeah. He was. And I was like. And I was like, well, how do we have a nice stuff? So you never know. It's funny. He son kind of like, you know, he doesn't believe in anything anymore daughter alive, and then came back to it. And now she goes to church again. Death. Yeah. What about what? What real stuff like? Sounds like to me it's treating this like its sister finger subscription concern. It's not a real thing. And you should advocate. You should be telling me uses all real. And this is how you know. It's real or this remember at the end of it that quite a few hours just talking to this guy. And then eventually he was going to say good night now because I need to spend some time in my wife, always need to spend time my wife each day of away. And that was the only thing that kind of made sense to me in the whole talk a hundred amendment gun is important. I like walking away. He, you know, he's thinking about her and even spent some time ago, he knows that that's important. He doesn't make relationships because of his job. Yeah. A little bit more than anything else. It said about religion and faith and stuff started thinking about more about other people. All this death stuff is obsessive yourself and just like I'm gonna die. An all this understand this looking at around. And upper people maybe more important, maybe people first, and then just realizing kind of being a bit spoilt getting angry that I was going to die 'cause like his amazing even here in the first place. So he wears he got me out of it. But he wasn't trying to how will we eighteen? Wow. Man. I think I was just wanking all the time. Oh, still wanted. I was one Kim forget about death while doing it. The greatest way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Die like, yeah. That's intense that you were going through. Yeah. It was still took me a while to completely like. Christian anymore, and how will your folks about that fine that really supportive and loving parents? And just like they took us to church 'cause you know kids when leave us alone. But like, it was never you have to believe this or this is the truth. It was always present. It is it was faith. And it was a they believed it, but some people doing all that kind of stuff. So okay. So they weren't fundamentalist in any in any way. I mean, my dad, you know, science teacher video the almost telling us about either Lucien which kids we would tell them that was the only thing he told us that we went Bala. He told us about resurrection stuff. Cool. And he was like so we used to be apes. No, we didn't. Yesterday. And I was cool. It about child. Yeah. Didn't happen. Yeah. They weren't demented. This isn't a friends were and it would be interesting chatting to them. I wouldn't be surprised if I mean, you know, let's not forget that religion is still an important thing for the majority of people in the live in the world. But I wouldn't be surprised if some form of religion made a come back in the next few decades. You know, what I mean, just I get the sense that people are just flailing around so much these days your zero spiritually. This going to be another word other than spiritually indicates that you're talking about those kinds of things. New one that people could come up with go. Steely ghost? Gonna love ghost ghost. It would be. I just loved the conversations I think. Yeah. And it was like that was the sharing of ideas was more. A like that. And the not the non-judgmental path. That's the thing, isn't it. Yeah. That's when it gets less fun is when you start being made to feel bad about yourself, which I think is something that like, even though my parents are not like this told the not judgmental people, and they're not like, they don't focus on, you know, people sins over ever. But like a went to different churches, I went to a CSV school or into scouts, which is a Christian thing. And so like naturally of that all like safes in any way is that you just around the like Lois stuff about your bonus forgiveness. This is good. This is bad and stuff. And that's definitely been something that in the last couple of years of notice the effects of a bit more and been like, oh, yeah. That's actually had a bit of an effect on me because I really beat myself up. If I think of something wrong, I'm really really hard on myself. Yeah. And I think a huge part of that is is because there was certain types of. People, you know, some of my teachers some of my scout leaders some of the people at the church who had very much if you did do anything that was a little bit wrong. You're in the biggest amount of youth should be ashamed yourself. This awful how you framing it. When you give yourself a hard time. What? Now that makes you feel bad. You're not presumably wearing that. You're gonna go to hell unlike worried about hell, I don't know what it is. Really nothing is just knowing that just that was wrong or maybe malls never scared of heaven. Hello anything that was never pushed on me that much anyway. But I think it was maybe the getting in trouble in in any way. I remember the first time, I think. In in school oppose call someone a bastard or something like seven girl the past it as well. I bet she was about she was real bastard, actually total. But she went untold on me. Yeah. Behind around the corner could see. The teacher in the playground but hind on the corner, but not hiding properly. So like a new they would come and get me. So it was like if I went and hit hit hit that was me being bad again, you know, no evade wherever and we getting told off about it. And then he said tell your parents, but you should never imagine. If your parents her crying, and then after school girl, telling her mom are done it. But in front of my mom semi crying again and say how Sawyer was, but my mom not being like, she wasn't hard on me at all. I just thought can't go home. I miss sainthood. Please don't tell anyone that. I said it please telling tell you know, this and then getting home going upstairs, and she was having take with her friend and then walking down, and she was half Italian the story, and what she would have been telling their families like your momma's yet. But my members have been telling offend looking back should have been saying. It was he was so upset complete. How upset he wasn't probably quite concerned that big a deal to me. Right. But until I came down to hear hotel in offend anyone to know get on quite again. He put me she wouldn't tell anyone it was like this whole that. Now, if would fix the of this awful person because swear for like, you know, but that was never put me on parents. It wasn't like a huge. Have you shouldn't do this stuff? But I think it was everywhere else. And so it was I just didn't want to. I wanted this perfect track record on anything wrong. Maybe still feel at that. Sometimes you come across like people being harshly judgmental when your you know, in comedy circles, and when you're trying to do your thing. Yeah. I'm okay with that. So it's been it's funny. Now, I think always more insecure about that. When I started out and stuff will you seem to have found a groove in the last few years. You know, you're inhabiting a stage persona completely now, which is completely coherent. Yes. They could see it. Like, it seemed to be obvious when you did that quadrille Aji on flicks. Yeah. That's what once you're doing. What you wanna do? And you know that this is what? I would happily watch it myself or whatever I this is like. This is why my head. So. Yeah. Is it? Is it been honest with myself? Is good enough as what you wanna be making getting that kind of like clearer vision of this is what I want to show to be. And then if you're chief that people say if you don't cheat it again ban also of yourself and being no it's not exactly what I wanted. And so then again, the criticisms maybe hurt as much because you're. Yeah. Rather than lying to yourself to yourself. It's brilliant. And then people say stuff that deep down nerve is true. And then you react badly to it because you're trying to video what you're trying to atone this. Whereas like, you know at the moment. I did one joke about her. Is Brexit joke about a Cup of tea and like leaving the T back in or taken out? On the week. And it's like a little clip and every now and again does around on Twitter and some new share it and every time it gets shared much higher minuses full of people leave arguing with me about arguing with the routine. So that respond to them. But like always stick into the the metaphor as well. So this can't find it funny rather than getting angry with them is quite funny. That is like a yeah. But if you leave the again for too long than all stew, and then everything tastes discussed it. And then you go for the bag in the Ben anyway. And then the wash the mug up say. Say nothing sense. They always stick to the metaphor argue with me on it. And I think if you years ago that would maybe would have upset me or would have got frustrated with it, especially when you kinda just think if I carry on this job, this is the rest of my life 'cause people like this, and they're gonna be able to get to me probably even easier in the future technology is going then. So you just this is always going to happen. In another coming tweet in a lot. He's on a minute. And a lot of people complaining about the price of drinks. How far away that say is the venue things that he's kind of like engaging with them in a way. Well, you just don't win on your new. You're just leave it like because this is going to go on forever. And like you can't raise them with. If people are getting annoyed. They knew how much tickets were when they bought them. Wear yourself out. This doesn't the thing about the contact that you have with people on social media as well as that it really encourages people to ask you stuff that actually it's not your job to deal with sure they're asking you what time of the show start tonight. Aleksic nego- on four beta city. All this something respond to that. Which I mean is do I? Helpful of them. If I've got time I will. But then I think people will listen to stuff in the podcast, and they'll just say, well, what was the name of that book, you mentioned podcast. Yeah. Well, you could definitely listen to the podcast again. If you really wanted to know also there's a good chance. Oftentimes, they'll ask me stuff that I've put links to in the description of the. Kind of thing is a song the minute. My new show. There's a song beforehand that I come on stage DJ in at the moment. I am might change. But I'm also not Janus walk in. And there's a Cape turn into intern in full volume and back to the this. Come and everyone always tweets me going. What's not song? But I always apply to those ones. Always tell them what the song is. Because like, it's a fun. Electra part of the joke for me, I'm responding to every single one of those with just the song name who it's by especially because it is by one of my friends is. Unknowing album, offering brilliant. So it's fun. It's good surf music is by Paul Williams. Not the Paul Williams did Bugsy Malone and stuff different Paul Williams from New Zealand wonderful like pop record good one. That's a great idea. DJ they come in on stage. Then yeah, I'm on stage. Like a shell suit jacket, and shades and just a day giant in with for that song. I'll stare them down on the front of the stage into staff at the mall's plan. Go back today, Jane? But I think my main motivation for doing anything in life is so I can get control of the music in the room. Today. Jay, so. Yeah. And you tell him what went on tour and outlook the car and the two minutes you'll get holy. Is this car most like plug my put into the stereo yet? Good. Yeah. Great care about my wife. My wife had say that she's in charge of most of the important things that happen administratively within the family. Yes. 'cause I'm focused on just being a tool professional, and so she allows me the space to do what I'm doing. And meanwhile, she's getting the important stuff. So she generally buys the car when it's time to buy a car. Yes. And with when you've got a family that becomes a thing that happens more often than you would like it to and the last time she bought a car. It was his big old crazy family tank nightmare thing, and it was all fine. But the stereo. Uh-huh. Was just useless. And I couldn't play my music, and I think it had a CD player that was our only. So at the burn CD is that wants the talker. And it was just every time we go into the car and go somewhere as a family, which didn't happen. All that often. Usually, I'm cycling around, you know, I'm under my own steam, but we get in the car, and we'd be going for a long drive, and I realize oh, yeah. The stereo situation. And it would bump me out so badly again a mood. She'd pick up on it, and she'd feel like I was blaming her because she had bought the right car with a good stereo. And in a way, I was. But I'd be trying to pretend that that wasn't the case because that would be so pathetic defense. And it would that was quite a few journeys that were ruined because I was such a little baby about, but it really is a bad so exciting because it's so great to listen to music. Yeah. I always want music homework. I am. So like, yeah. In the car, especially if it's a long journey, especially on tour when you join all the time, I think someone told me, or at least two hundred told me they just listened to the entire back catalogue of one band, and then they'll choose another band listen to back catalog, and they do it like that. And on my last tour, I'm last couple of tours actually coast together, I was doing a project anyway of listen to much music from twenty sixteen as I could. And so we were just listened to lows of albums that had been had to come from twenty sixteen. We're doing that all the time. And it goes so much fun. What was the best album of two thousand sixteen very hard question. I would maybe worry Jeff Rosenstock and telephone no-name as joint number one either. So Jefferson stocks album is like epic pop punk record. But like pop punk for the people who were there the first. So the people. May here were teenagers. When like during the implant clay to the big pop punk bands. And you're into that. I was when I was a teenager and now Papa has grown up with its audience. And now it's all about banning your fertilize sounded generals bit more, mature Jefferson. Very good example in the album records, really incredible. And the no name album is she's a rapper from Chicago. And it was a mix tape who self produced and recorded in an Airbnb law, but like. Really could've spoken word flow to a voice and nice, lady drums, and this funny offbeat finger lakes and stuff is face. Somebody feel to the album, but the lyrics are quite dark. Even news, quite bright. And those amazing, but the whole year, it's currently I think about is that year because I'm like, I'm writing a book about it. And I'm like just obsessed with twenty sixteen. Two thousand sixteen or just the music texting. So last year in twenty seventeen tough personal. Yeah. Just didn't cope very well. And the way I dealt with. It was the I listened obsessively to music in two thousand sixteen to strap myself because the star twenty seven years looking at the end of year lists for twenty six. Kind of fallen out of touch with like Covent music enough coming musical awhile ago, and was always buy music obsessive music is old stuff. And then in two thousand sixteen as it was happening. I remember thinking, oh, there's like been so many big albums that aren't just disposable in the background albums like. Black star came out lemonade, and then Frank ocean's blown as well. Those are the three that might be go. Oh, there's a free really big album a stand the test of time that everyone is really excited about a lot of people come out and same year. And so when the end of year lists came out, maybe a will like. Check out some of these and I was really enjoying it. And then in January this breakup signifcant break up to me, and like really kind of free me into a bit of a funk, and because the most recent thing in doing that, I enjoyed was listening to this music. I just continued to every night thoughts on tour for most of the year to the hotel and just Google best albums twenty sixteen in the so many lists that people at made made another list, listen to the songs on it by the album, always buy it by the album that I wanted and download and not have the ones that I liked and I've now got just over five hundred hours that came out in two thousand sixteen and I'm kind of in about why did it and about the of interviewed a lot of the bands of in about the stories behind all the records and stuff and trying to kind of like link them together as well. That's great. It's been fun. I'd love to read that. And so that person that you had a break up with how long keeping together Friedhof years. Okay. And was she the person that got you into because I heard you talking on your food bar radio show about someone you've been out with who'd introduce you to like your favorite book. No that was someone else someone else. She was I was when I was twenty one I was my first kind of. Love. Guess I been in love with someone changed me too in the airplane over the on neutral milk hotel. You should have a lot to eat by Dave Eggers book and miss sunshine. The film I could've had offered and outside. Yeah. They're still also some might absolute number one favors. The neutral milk hotel's very close to be my favorite album. But yeah, that bookstore means a lot to me in that film. Nothing. Still amazing. Like, yeah. It's like three things that really contributed to this my personality and stuff as well. Lows free things fed into who. I am a lot. So yes, she. Annoyingly had a big influence on me. That's great though. I mean, generally, I think most of my cultural influences have come from my school, friends, really people. I had relationships where it was less about that. In fact, they were often into stuff that I wasn't into it. Like, I went out with a girl who was just a total Raver, and I never really clicked with the only kind of music that we really listen to together with David Byrne's album, REI Momo. Okay. Yeah. Have you ever have you know, that was really good? It's when he went all able to. Yeah. He had this big. It was kind of his Latin Graceland. But it's such a good album, and we used to listen to that together. But then there would be other stuff. I went out with someone else. And yet it's weird when you realize, oh, this is something that means a lot to you. I hope I like it. But she loves singing in the rain this person. I'm thinking of now, and she said, we've never seen the rain. She's quite a bit older than me. I said no looks boring. We sat there, and we watched it in. House which she lived with him mom, they were polish. So we sat there we watch seeing the rain, and it was really good. Have you seen seeing the right? Yeah. Yeah. I one of the ones where. Yeah. You think it's an old films boring to watch it? And then. Yeah, if you do watch it, and then still think and Gus. You go problem. Yeah. This is a joy fulfill. And it's amazing amazing. How they made it. And this is incredible. And be kind of. You can't really watch it. We've all been it's up. If you got now would still in that was amazing if they did something like that. And it's always actually quite disappointed by law, and then me like it didn't songs memorable in it involved in anything like wasn't that great. Find not is meant to bay this hormones tool these films, but he don't seem to be very doing it properly. Yes. Sometimes it's really hate something. I do and it's mainly because of how much at one else is signed it Samarrai. Yeah. And you're like. If you weren't sign. It was amazing not say, and I wouldn't like it. But it wouldn't annoy me spill, film, whatever that was like Evans, saying orlands amazing. So watched it was angry that percents films amazing. Not amazing. This is lazy. It's not good. And then at the Oscars really enjoy watching the Oscars here. I'll Bill anti awards in comedy and stuff because it affects me, but what it's like someone else lies is sport is fun to watch other people. I remember watching that year, and it was the year where LA La Land got accidentally instead of moonlight sort of moonlight. Moonlight was the one that I wanted to win saying that in the cinema, and like it's one of the few films of goes left feeling like being punched in the chest. Very like amazing just experience watching that film. I really wanted to win. Pretty sure it wasn't gonna win. And when they went out and underlying. Yeah, it would be whenever and then when they came on and corrected it the amount of joy, the tooken it. My friends of criticize me a lot for how happy I was. Because I was like that is the best finger could have happened is that not only did you not win you for it. One. And you in front of everyone, and then you discovered it didn't win without PISA ship filled. I like these really delighted about and then the best people did win and then came up like David Zell scuffled off about it. Coolest lives in cinema. Four one. Best pitcher has. Empathy for him but not love whiplash. So the tiny the year before whatever up been, this guy's brilliant. I love this film. And then turned on him so quickly totally unreasonably turned on an absolutely he's done. The one about going to the moon has not watch that yet. I o enter NASA wants an absolutely loved coating guided tour of Nassar in Florida Houston, oh in Texas riots. When when so all the Apollo for in stories and stuff that kind of stuff also discovered that my nephew Likud, Neil Armstrong that made me laugh. Many familiar with deal like this picture of exactly like my five year old nephew or wherever really does your nephew. Just wear space, suits. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an astronaut Easter well saying quite getting them start. Yeah. I we went to go for at the time that we only had one in Houston, and we went to spice day, and then went back to the Airbnb and vented Apollo thirteen on itunes watched cassia. She didn't say that before. I think that's one of the most very watchable films for me of thirteen. Yeah. Let me finish. May may Nash. You were talking about films on the study your favorite films, but other ones that you'd always be in the mood to watch it. If someone just said so much Apollo thirteen. Normally, do you wanna watch Apollo thirteen and same like the dark nights or a lot of that. He's got a good hit right for films that aren't happily watch. Whenever last night. It's weird. You say I was watching interstellar. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I do like that film. Yeah. Holy shit. Matthew, mcconaughey when he's watching those videos of his daughter growing up. Oh, yeah. Oh my God. And he's losing his mind. He does. Well, that was during the McConnell sons. That's right. Yeah. I love science fiction though, I tried to. I saw I Phil when I was seventeen and had never written anything before. I didn't know how you write films or anything. I just wanted to like my own scifi film. It was this thing where there was a cat who could communicate telepathically with a postbox. This this one post books ses strong pitch already. Yeah. They talk to telepathically. But also, the cat could see gravity is the force. But as a pass personified, so is character that was force of. Figures painted silver. We look top only the cat could see him in the whole world. And the H force apparently is told your loud to avail yourself to one bin and all of time, and it shows that cat, and there's no reason behind that as well. So the cat's offend that. He can say no one else can see if I can hear no one else can here, and they can't here. We'll see each other. And so they they were scorpion. In the cat was middleman. And then the main store even the main story as always this guy. He wanted to become a tiger. And so is gopher and trying to help him achieve that. And it found this underground doctor who said he could do the operation to change him into a tiger to transition into a tiger. Yes. But actually what he did was just he did a placebo cut the guy for it was a tiger. But he's not this is good to go for Michelle Gandhi. Gone. You love it. Correct. Take none of it by that. He said so toll. Yeah. It was really really long like hundreds of pages on for because I kind of like had way too many stories to tell every little bit of the store. So it's like if someone was going to go from one house to the ever, I couldn't just be like cut to the next minute of a house. I had to show the entire charity because I was like. Go into the house. Now, that's the next week is going to happen is literally look kid till the new story inside. And then and then all the time. So it was every little detail of it. And I'll be looking on. Now, he's got a gun doctor. I guess because he's a tiger. So better get back to the doctors. And do that house this much the whole thing? I didn't anyone read it because I knew it was rubbish secretly I found one Google production companies online and just sent the whole thing to this production company, who I imagine opened it look to the first page in the been if even looked at the first page, which it probably didn't in the front page said the name of it on it also was not former incorrectly and helping supposed to be probably saw that. Okay. I'm not I'm not reading. This is amazing. And you were seventeen seventeen. I didn't understood a penny written another script since then I've been script since. Like learn how to write scripts. You haven't written a whole movie, you know? No, it's been nice. We I want to do because. Well, whatever in scripts for other things sitcoms if they haven't been made or go one pilot for that. But like if he's a project, I really like, I just really enjoy writing it. And if it doesn't get made of shame, but I'm very happy. I didn't learn stuff. So. Yeah. Excited about film idea at the moment is not that same one. But. Phil. There's a lot of I mean, this several films within that that was one of the problems. But if the many problems was the fine films put the ball this help yet as a film the moment starting at next after this book. And yeah. Most likely will not get married, but I definitely want to writer Philo could be fun to write it. So fucking hell that is really impressive that you're able to focus to that degree and get those things done whether they get made or not if you don't like the idea, you don't do it. You don't finish it. You don't focus and it's hard. But it is an idea like than the hardest is getting yourself to sit down and start. But soon as you start because you like the idea, it's really funny. I should should start on earlier today while we've been putting this off for two hours. So she's g refund. Yes. Those projects actually don't even take that long. Because like you're redrafted over I love redrafted, a height the first draft take so long. You're a row and figure out how what it is. But redrafted summit just tweak it and change in the polish, and it is really fun. And do you do that with your standard? Yeah. Yeah. Stand up his go out and do I don't write anything down. So I was going to the gigs and. You never write it down well down like little keywords to remind myself now over eighteen about whatever batteries or whatever. So you write that down invite down a key phrase that you don't want to forget that you laugh on the night always say it like that. But if I might down what I think is funny, and then go on and try and do I just sound the comedian off of pages sounds a bit versed wooden and find the best thing is like I want to communicate the idea with the people in the in the room and get the actual thing across to them. Because the thing with me is that I don't have like. I've never done a whole set of going up without a. But I always would want to always like to be great just from a practical point of view to be able to turn up with no gear in no tech guys to tell me that I've got the wrong, Dongola, whatever that's sixteen album. Oh, yeah. By surface to air missive recorder program album, and you just found that trolling through. Yeah. Adams of two thousand sixteen that was just a musician during an interview, and she was asked what you five hours to twenty sixteen and she went she said her favorites. And then she said, oh, and some of my friends of these albums, here's this is my friend and favors. So could what's Kalyan could spy surface to air missive, and it's the sky instruments in a lot of recorder. But don't that that put you off? It's not Twee. He really does London's burning. Well, yes. Yes, spurred it over and over twelve tracks of liberals bird. That sounds good. I'm going to investigate. Always giving persons. I'm like, I know. Yes. Jake. Presents. 'cause I like you. I just read if. Presents. Some people. No agenda just like presence gifts. Well, staying at a hotel last night. Yes. I've got you all the toiletries. How did I not spot them boggle up on the table? The whole time this good. This is the kind of stuff. So every time I go home to catch and see my parents bathrooms for this dodge title hotels, and always takes the stuff. And there's now I- fairy liquid bowl next to the shower is full of hotel shampoo is dispensed into this big Butler ferry late hood. And now that's how he takes care of business. So describe what you've got got here dental kit, which this what to say how good it is. That's quite a nice touch to push as little cap on it. So the bristles aren't fully exposed. So you can remove that sanitary cat club so much plastic though that's copy good plastic here though is longer in. Than usual. That's nice. I appreciate you indulging the sex. You're gonna have to the rest of the toiletry. It's quite a nice hotel. Gig. And they got me a room. All I care about in. Every hotel is the good strength, wifi and good strength shower. So I said I want to strong shower, strong wifi and the rest of it could be outdoors. As long as like, I have a good shower. Good wifi. That's all one tool. Anyone wants this this room? I stayed in last night. The wifi was off the charts. Cooling down ten Meg maybe normal in London. I guess it might be. It's a strong is good or bad fantastic. Yeah. You loved it. So Paul if you downloading a movie online, the movie was three gig, or whatever, you know, if you try and download a movie from some streaming service. You want to keep it on your laptop. The thing is three gig. It would download that in ten minutes. Yeah. What we downloaded everything. I could it was just a total random. Yeah. Because that where we are right. Like giving all my downloading update. Everything update all my apps, yet just every single thing that I needed wife before. Right here, we go. This is my chance I'm much apps. I got so many gap guy you favor app favor app. I am not supposed to be the one who questions put. I got a good app. The other day, which I sometimes show to people. Sky view light. It is going to open it right now. Because it's got nice music that comes with it as well is a Stoner gazing app. Upgrade? Now. Fuck you. I mean, it's just never ending the upgrade situation. Be such a relief that all up store says you've got fifty six upgrades, pending. Yeah. And then you get them all out of the way, they're all done. It's all. One with the world and then within a week sixteen apps, you need to grade never will never ever ever end. Maybe I turn the music thing. Yes. I'll rate it. No, remind me later asked of our nutrition into that you can only do this. But if you recommend it to a friend, or if you write it also rating stuff, I've never given a Nuba dry for anything less than five stars. No, exactly. Why would you? Yeah. I mean, unless you go into a physical altercation unless they're like so horrendous, and then you like you would make a complaint Vavra into star. But like, the the people are really are never understand is anyone who gives the joy for four stars. Never understand because you're taking yourself. Too critic at that point you start because actually there was mobile. Who cares? Would you tell it to a proper critically like? If something's four-star good if a journey in which he would give for stars to then it's five stars. There's nothing people knocking off a point. Specially when you know contribute to that person's job. I always figure could get fired or something. Yeah. So it was giving five stars. I'm not going to be able to turn the music on here. But just imagine kind of nice kind of ambient music bubbling as soon as you open the app normally, but turn it off somebody's not content back on again. But you hold it up to the sky and it corresponds to the stars that are in the sky there. And it shows you what constellations you're looking at maps out for you, you can pan around, and you can see where the planets are like if you below the horizon, it'll show you the planets that are below the horizon at that point, and you can see the international space station across and it's so great is cool actually spent ages sky view, it's called the other stargazing apps are available. His nother present for you. Have you seen this colossal? Oh, I haven't seen it. I'd like to say, it's really good. I thought it was good. Like, you say the concept of it becomes so much to bet. Like, my my film. Well, it's such massive high concept idea. That a person realizes that she has linked to giant dinosaur creature that is destroying Tokyo. And every time she gets drunk this creature appears halfway across the world and lays waste to cities and kills thousands of people onboard. And somehow they make it work and Hathaway place the person who's because it's quite serious because she's struggling with a drink problem that she has to come to terms with. So it's a really tricky tonal balancing act going for because it's it's got comedic elements and scifi fantasy elements and then real drama. And I thought it worked I'm looking forward to also one of my favorite, Oscar speeches. Okay. Nice so bad. I really love what ask speeches her when she gets the Oscar cradles it and looked at it. And goes it came true. Fail for the audience paying like. Go say that. Perfect. My favorite one is an APAC win wins for which is really little kid for the piano. Yeah. Just so I think like I always love I've over exaggerated it in my head. But she's like still in primary school wins an Oscar for best supporting actress as you. So she like this huge small, hyper ventilated is what popular head? She can't believe it as she's just stands of the bowl. I should just have looks at the just braving rarely heavily looking around at the vici small everyone's laughing because it's like it was weird. So in flips a switch in the back of her head, and the small goes, she goes, I'd like to thank moment at management, just just the whole speech this rack sawfish thank. And then she just walks off like, Android. By five. Thanks, very hyperactive goads going let my management, and my parents and thank you to bendy for looking after me goodbye walks off. So great. Showed it to somebody pay. Obsessed with it put that in the description of the podcast to watch. I always over exaggerate everytime. Describe it to people, but it's still very funny way to watch a child of that happen to them at that point in their life. Have you seen Jerry Seinfeld? Doing kind of deconstruction ceremonies comics to be the people at the back making fun of it. And that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Jason for people who like kind of a comedian watching lows of his stuff not just to stand up. Also, his interviews. And this what you things about stuff because he's seen as being a cover. Headmaster figure to comics more more like. Not even a massive fan of his and I'm not sure just how confidence he talks about stuff. He's just so sure that he's right. Yeah. And you go and how will we become a comedian? But this chewed. This. Oh, sure yourself. But you just don't do it your way. What would you even do ridiculous? I what are you telling that person? How can you be so sad that you're right? I think that that's what power is a lot of his comedy, though, is he it's like a magic trick or a hypnotism trick that he just forces his way of looking at the world on the audience, and they go, okay. Yeah. Go along with it. That's not to take away from the brilliance of what he does. Sometimes I do agree with you that sometimes you watch how Schori is about stuff, and you just think no known as many entries lately. It's been said a lot of headed stuff. That is definitely one about any doesn't say. But like her stuff worth. A combined. Go he's got a real story streak at him. Look at people just sorta our what's your problem? I didn't feel with him on Baldwin's podcast. Where he said that he wakes up every morning and the first few does is he splashes cold water in his face says he doesn't certain amount of splashes aims between the eyes splashes cold water because he'd seen Paul Newman. Do it in a film and start doing that you start doing all the time. As an I started doing it because he'd said it, and then I told comedian at this James about James and Alice says IB time he splashes himself in the face with cold water. If things about the fact the ice cold water because Jerry Seinfeld, special corps because. Goes back of all of us in this chain of cold. Now, I'm going to do as well. Yeah. People listening to this world. It's it's feels great. It's a very good way to start the day. You're just like I'm here now. Teddy to switch the machine on. Right. I'm awake. Good. Hey. And the reason this the first time we've pop probably met, and you bought me the perfect gifts me, this is when I knew that I was going to talk to you. I mean, I wanted to talk to you because I've been really enjoying your stuff over the years. And I absolutely loved those Netflix specials, and I thought they worked they appeal to me in a kind of art school way. Because the it was a coherent statement these four specials you release them all on the same day. I like the visual look alike. The thought about the way what you wore. And but none of it was dig- taken. It wasn't superior. It was still just about making people off. It was just very much. I really responded to it. Thank you so much very much. I really liked it. And it's fun. When you when you connect with something that's not totally mainstream. But it just really engages you in that way. So I really enjoyed it. And then oh, yeah. You had a thing about. Bulking which which I really respond. As a bit of a Selker myself on that does not soak. Yes, what was your bit feels great for for a long time? I was trying to do this. But how Salkin feels great. And never kind of like it never works. Look I wanted to it would really connect with people of his not. But like it's a say, so go such bad rep. But it feels amazing. I don't want to be pulled out of a salt who sold chemical your brain releases when you have a soak. But if they sold chemical on my gums or the live long day. But I try to make a much longer thing. I couldn't do it. But like. I definitely relate to it. Too much. In the Sochi. Don't want. Anyone to cheer you up? You hear them coming up the stairs. And you know, the community you up, and you might even daddy go fuck off. And then sometimes you hear stairs. Still I on the London and then go back downstairs now. Us about. This like turbo at that point is up to maximum nine-year. Mattie, berry levels have been separated. Few levels. Get me off. Now, the salt because I'm really buried now. Yeah. He's still like that. No, no. I hope not maybe some ex-girlfriends will listen to this like, yeah. You are. I like to not you've got to be careful in a relationship with that. Because it is as you say, it's so seductive fields, so grow. But actually, you know that you've got to get out of it. It's a bit like have you ever seen Star Trek generations? Yeah. I think when Picard meets Kirk and into the nexus. It's all about the next. The next is this kind of weird space time anomaly ribbon that's floating through the galaxy. And it kind of sucks people in and there's a bad guy who wants to go back to the next because if you go into the next then it's light you've been transported to your happy place favorite moment in your life. Or an ideal of what you would let your life to be you live there, captain Kirk one is a kind of it's like Santa parks. It's like a house in in the woods chopping word and his wife's upstairs, and he's making eggs and he's out in living in the country, and that's his nexus place. But it's not real. And it might feel good to be there actually in the long term. It's going to do more harm than good. That's the way I think. Yeah. I was so especially in a relationship I ever find myself, so often do stuff, I know. Site myself in my in my head and do this stop. I can be really critical in a relationship both of myself out of one with its. It's I hate it. I absolutely hate. How much could just like I don't have stop myself from doing it, especially out loud. Even pay top on it for the person. But we both know that I keep on return into this thing every time. She does whatever it is just stuff that annoys you. Yes. This things that unlike what my Lasco friend who most people who would boggle going in. She would like eight ball shopping. So she'd love to buy a box of granola, and she'd open it and just walk around doing the shopping, but also granola tweet, and who cares? It doesn't. It's fine. She'll pay at the end. It doesn't make any difference to the amount. They get my backup on the I. First time if I wanted oh, you would've. Would've would've those people? The eight something they will come on. Because because I guess I can't touch you. Right. Yeah. Your bubble that and I can't touch you do what you want in the supermarket the second. She did. She did go you do that out loud. And then the fertile but insane a pig, but she was like can tell you this. Suffice. It's fine similar even cat in the first place. But try to try to be it is really hard to k- with this. But do you think it offends your sense of order or something or now, I think I've got like some real? Things with more stand up. His the way is genuinely take much bigger issue with little things, and if the small and yet to represent so much more so someone who goes to the supermarket and does shopping while ate the food before they've paid for it. It gets to be to be. It's like like like, technically light. Now, you're stealing. But you know, that not really, but you know, that it's going to know this stuff who say, you know, like, you can't do anything about this just doing whatever you like, you can't do whatever you like that's not life. Kind of like like so probably is the Christian boy abused. Yeah. Here. I am laying. Meanwhile, you shoving Granada that you haven't paid for into your man, like why raking off the end of a bag at and having on that dip, it is suppose. But like I tried to like the last time we were with us time. It's time to supermarket together. She was doing last time before she got rid of you. Rightfully poco. Okay. I was that point trying to make a joke about it. So she she was like this is one. It's fine. Partly employees. So it's like you see this what she's doing? Just about in the Kronos. What do you think about that? It was really mind. So my all stumble. If you wanna complain to your boss about this. If you wanna to pull this I'll happily sign whatever you debuted assigned to say that I disapprove of this as well. Laugh at least. Yeah. Like, I've got to have this. The next day their relationship. That was with that guy with the guy very happy. Wait continue. Hey, how you doing listeners that was James cast to their first time I'd met James. And I hope not the last as I said, you will find some links to some of the music we talked about and some of the clips we talked about in the description of this podcast. Don't forget as well that that bonus episode of chat with James about half an hour worth of extra conversation with James is available on the Adam Buxton app right now in the bonus audio section. All right. Rosie. Rosie come on. Where are you? Itchy. Right. I'm gonna head back. Rosie has bug it off somewhere. We she's been doing quite a lot recently. Just goes wandering off. Then comes back when she feels like it. Which is spit destroying sometimes, you know, you don't want to go and. Start hanging out with. Creepy animals who might be a bad influence on her. She'll be okay. Anyway, before we go today. I saw a couple of films recently that you might be interested in one of them is called avengers endgame. Very good. Very exciting. It's got famous people in and special effects and punching and kicking shooting and shouting and. And special powers hope that hasn't spoiled it for anyone actually all sincerity. I enjoyed it. Me. And my daughter went to see it. You know, it's three hours. In fact, it's over three hours three hours one minute. And I was expecting to be in physical and mental pain. But actually, it was okay. It wasn't too bad back in my day. If you had a film that was three hours long. You got an interval wonder around stretch your legs, get some food. Do some washing catch up on some admin. And then pop back in for part. Two of whatever epic you watching Gandhi Gandhi. I think was the last film. I went to see that had an interval. Oh, his Rosie. She's back and it's a fly past. Quite a slow flypast. Oh, that's good. It's a relief. I don't like it when she goes off. But she always comes back. Anyway, the other film, I saw this week was eighth grade. There's a good chance you may have heard of it. I think it's getting a lot of good. Reviews and good buzz is an American comedy drama written and directed by Beaubourg him. My son's like VO burn they knew all about him from YouTube. I wasn't really familiar with his stuff. He's a comedian. These comedy guy who has well, this is his first film that he's written and directed. Coming of age story follows the life and struggles of an eighth grader a fourteen year old in America. Named kayla. Played by Elsie Fisher, who I think one Golden Globe for her performance, and it takes place during her last week of classes before graduating to high school. She struggles with social anxiety, but produces blogs giving advice, and so she's really brilliant Elsie Fisher. But it is very well done the whole thing, and I wished well, I guess I shouldn't say anything that will spoil it for you. I found it quite hard to watch some of it because I was thinking a lot of the time of this is going to go dark and. I was thinking, oh, I don't want anything to horrendous to happen to Kayla. But it's not really that kind of fill. It's very sweet natured despite having a few bits are. Definitely painful, and cringe inducing. Because it really brilliantly recreates the discomfort and the anxiety of being that age and feelings if you don't quite fit into a social scene, and you're struggling with all sorts of difficult feelings and thoughts and worries but while it's very well done. And there's so many moments in it as well, but feel like a very accurate snapshot of where things right now in the modern world and twenty nineteen although that may be because I'm a fifty year old guy. And you could tell me pretty much anything about what life is like for teenagers in America in two thousand nineteen and I would believe you because I don't know what it's like at all. Nevertheless, it's very good film. I thought. Okay. That's it for this week. Thanks to shameless. Murphy Mitchell for his production support on this episode. Thank you very much Matt Lamont for your edit with buttery. And thanks to eight cost for hosting this. In other terrific podcasts. Check him out back with another podcast next week until then I'm begging you take care. I love you.

James e Casta James Paul Williams London Adam Buxton Josh Widdicombe Google Edinburgh YouTube Airbnb James cast UK Conan Richard herrings Rosie FU Baugh Ross Archie Mike Rupert Grint
EP.135 - ELLIE WHITE

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:05:32 hr | Last month

EP.135 - ELLIE WHITE

"I did one more. Gye. Cost Bend now you have that cost out and started listening I took my microphone found some human folk. Then I recalled it all the noise while. My name is at Buxton. I want you to enjoy. That's the. How you doing podcasts at in Buxton here. Reporting to you once again. From a field out in East Anglia UK around about ten minutes drive. Outside the city of Norwich currently categorized as Tia one. In the new COVID. Restrictions system I like to think of Norwich now as. Tijuana Because it's Tia one. Have Lots people made that joke? I don't know I'm not on social media anymore. It's pretty good joke though what do you think rose I'm and? She's Kambli. But look I'm not. Trying to make light of the situation. I mean I suppose it'll be, but I'm certainly not trying to Rub Norwich is one status. In, the face of anyone listening who is currently Experiencing tighter restrictions. My sympathies are with everyone. Regardless of their tier categorization. I'm hoping you're all doing as well as possible and. Plugging on. Doing that dog. Expense and long grass. And she's bowed sin look. Let me tell you about podcast number one, hundred and thirty five, which features a conversation with British actor and comedian Ellie White. This is a particularly randomly and. Frequently foolish conversation which doesn't need a great deal of setting up. So I'll just give you. A couple of brief L. Effects. L. E. is versatile performer with an amazing range. She does big crazy characters on TV comedies like the windsors murdering successful and victim. Bob's House of fools, but she's also got nuanced and naturalistic in her locker. As you will know if you've seen her in shows like this time with Alan Partridge inside number nine and the BBC Sitcom, the other one. Written by former podcast guest Holly Walsh L. E. was the star of that show however. Flypast from the heavy bullet. Ellie. Turns in many of her funniest performances. This is in my opinion. In live shows, Internet shorts, and TV sketches. Made with her comedy partner and another friend of the PODCAST Tash demitrio. Elliott? Tash are in the early stages of working on their own character and sketch comedy show for BBC three that some way off though. Given the Cova situation. But for the past few years. Elliott. Tash of also being part of the main cast on the brilliant after award winning Channel Four. Sitcom staff. Let's flats starring Tasha's brother Jamie Dmitri. Mike Conversation with Ellie was recorded remotely towards the beginning of September twenty twenty Oh that long ago. Towards the end in the course of discussing Cardi B.'s recent number one hit. You should also be aware that there smut. And a lot of Innuendo and some actual strong bad language. which comes earlier in fact, there's bad language. So please do go with caution. If that kind of thing is likely to. take a giant plop on your day. I wouldn't want that nobody wants that. Back at the end for a little bit more waffle but right now with Elliot White here we go. John. Back. Back Put. Papa. Will. You keep talking alley. Tell me what you had for breakfast. Breakfast. Sorry to disappoint. You had a cheese sandwich for lunch and some crisps. And OPTUS hot water to coffees today, and I've done very very, very little. That is not a balanced diet. Is it. No, I didn't think. So is it I mean I'm not the expert well, I mean I feel terrible. Didn't parents have to tell you that breakfast was the most important meal and if you didn't load up on breakfast and you're going to die by midday probably did Easter e when I before I went to school I've heard other people you know everything every bit of knowledge nowadays someone is going to. Gain say it or say actually, the latest thinking is completely the opposite of that and if you don't have breakfast, then it reduces the length of your life by up to twenty years. For every egg. If I wake up very early. Filming with Eggs Bacon fill me with beans does very early. I'm talking five six right. So you like the old traditional English breakfast when you camp. If I'm very early. Do. You mind me asking how old you are. Thirty one. It's a problem of mine. I see everything in terms of age like who's at what stage? What if they learned? What should they have learned? What? Where was I at that point? Where were you at thirty one? Thirty one, I had just started doing the Ataman show with Joe. it was thirty one would have been. Two. Thousand I guess. And I was just about to get married. The world was about to change forever and I'm GonNA dissimilar place. You know I'm just about the Elian Natasha Show Okay and I'm thirty one world's. On fire, it's like the nine eleven of comedy. Is Burning hot and it's it's twenty years later. Not Huge Change in twenty years. So tell me about the Elian the show is that a commission you allowed to talk about it or is it new? I. It's not huge amounts to say we can't film at the moment. We're supposed to film it in May. But we oversea. got held up and so we'll. Maybe we'll from next year. Okay, and we'll send it to you. At any point did your commissioner suggests that you do it as a lockdown show? No, thank God I mean you could probably do it. You've done some lockdown comedy bit seven you we did a staff. Let's flats lockdown comedy. And ashutosh did sketch in lockdown. Yeah which was really funny. We both lost our minds day It was it was all about it was a parody as far as I could tell of all the first wave of lockdown inspirational stuff that people were putting online like it was a parody of real kind of St- of productivity that people who seem to be very, very smug about online making salad and I making my tapestry and. His My avocado do egg bowl. That was. What we were trying to take this out of. Similar tainting sleep behind the scenes having breakdowns. which wasn't wasn't fall from what was going on for most people think yet definitely, how did you cope because a little sidebar before I ask you more about Show. I. Think he was right I mean I live in smooth flat without a garden that was hard. But generally, I, sort of think it was okay. It was tough at times the general like kind of watching the news feeling. Really, worried, I, i. went through periods of feeling incredibly worried and anxious but I'm not actually on social media anymore and I think that was quite helpful. I think it helped me. So I sort of refocused you're on social media. No I came off before covert and I was going to you know I hadn't really been using it much for ages. So then I just though as well come and then the pandemic happened and then I felt. Quite smug and relieved that I wasn't on there because I just thought Whoa I don't think I would have been able to cope with just everything's whizzing around all the information in the misinformation and the recriminations and the judgments and they you should be doing this my God you're doing that and you are literally killing people by doing that and slow I don I yeah I it's it's enough dot going through your brain every day. Let alone like. Millions of other people telling you. What they think is well I think it just I. Think it was just helpful I mean sometimes you do feel a bit. Like you're on the on the outskirts of some sort of club being on that but you don't really know what's going on and did you see the Oscar that really interesting Oscar. That someone to shed and every single other person around the table and like yeah no that was actually interesting and you're like I've gotten idea what you're talking about. I have spent you know four hours researching Queen Bees today. So there you go. Maybe that's more useful. I really just think that it's fine to be a bit irrelevant and a bit out of the loop. Every now and again that last night in fact at supper. So I'm talking to you on Thursday the Tenth of September Twenty Twenty and last night. My children and my wife started talking about Having. Friends over and then they were saying, oh? Yeah. They were they won't be able to come over now. Because it's only six people. You're only allowed to have six people I, like I hadn't heard anything about it and. Because I just lost track. I've absolutely lost track of exactly what you're supposed to do. I mean in a way I'm sort of now glad that it's been refocused somewhat and there's the new six people directive for however long that goes on but I mean it does. Obviously no is tough but I went out for dinner in Kings Cross last Friday night, and afterwards we went to a pub the I won't name and Shame Bar. We went in and it was it was absolutely like bubbling with people. I. Live Rile people licking each other's faces and then I went downstairs 'cause i. Stay for a drink, but we were standing outside. But I went down says he's the Lou and there was a full dancefloor whoa. Full for people grinding dancing or people wearing mosques. To. Know that was in kings cross. It was actually shocking debate guys felt shocked I'd like it to end now all of that. She wanted to wake up tomorrow and I want it to have never happened. Where would you go back to? If you could go back to any year in your life if you could reset about, say a year and time. I would go eight, hundred, nine, hundred eighty to wait what Lynn Columbus L. The ocean blue nosers fourteen ninety to come on this. Tonight. At a year wildlife. Do, they're all beige they're all grey to me. Come on best year. I'm like thousand and four. Were we doing then? I was in year nine school. How old you? What's year nine? I? Don't know I'm no good at least fourteen. Okay. So you could be that was. That was an interesting age. Actually I wouldn't want to go back there. Yeah that's hard. It's complicated, but I'd like to see myself. As that person you know like wearing very questionable kind of jeans and Obama, the door top sanctuary be check on it on really like spratly trying to get boyfriend and failing. I'd love to see that. Were you a nice fourteen year old. Very. Nice. You would mean girl when did you get to know tash I got to know her Three Jamie because me and Jamie when her brother Yeah Jamie Dimitrius we Jamie we went to university together. Man Jamie went to university together and then we met. Tash, 'cause we went to Edinburgh to a show together and Jamie and she was also show with hurled sketch group always to rise, and so we became friends up and Edinburgh but we didn't start working together until. A few years a few years later like a five or six years later but we will just made before that hanging out which university did you go to? Bristol. Did you have fun I loved it I loved so much. It was brutally found very kind of laid back SEC- to do. There was huge. That's where I got very echo I became big ECO warrior when I went that lots of stuff about this big like echo communities that rule sustainable and stuff like that, and there's a big fake summer. Yeah. No, it's good. Good. Alternative Scene Alternative Thinking Independent Spirit Arts I imagine you living there actually I enjoy it every time I go that I go the whenever I film my bits for. The Crystal Maze. I play ahead in a cage. He played well, you know the crystal maze with Richard I would-i host I haven't seen that. No, that's okay. I don't think. So? Sorry that's fine. I think. was just nice and he suggested me for it and now I just turn up there every year or two. For, about three days, it's one of the easiest jobs I've ever had is that what do you have to do? It's a big studio. One of the biggest studios in Europe called the bottle factory of you've been there. Now is to film stuff that no I remember going to see deal or no deal get recorded in Bristol is it may it may well have been. When? A couple of times and. So they've just got this enormous set. All zones You know like what crystal maze is. It was great. It was great but I haven't seen any of the new stuff. Richards. Really. Funny. Oh well. I. Watch what channels on four and I am like a head disembodied head and originally, I was in the SCIFIS. And so people would go into a little room and they would see me it was like you know from Futurama Rola heads in the jaws that type. And so there, I was clearly a man middle aged man who had stuck his head through a hole in a set, and clearly there wasn't any liquid in the job because every time I said anything the job would fog up with my breath and it was really it was really difficult. They haven't really thought about that and what I had to do is sit a push. Hanky. That through the whole poss-, my neck and Kinda. Why Dr Contract? In between each take oh my God it was so uncomfortable as well because they hadn't in the on the first series, they haven't figured out where I was GONNA sit. It was literally like you just go behind the Cetin. Stick you head up through the hole and it's like. Why do I Neil Neil on the side the set. So, is incredibly uncomfortable. Second series they they had a Chad at for me and e- each time it gets a little bit more Comfortable. But it would cushion for your knees or anything like that. They gave me a cushion I. It was just one of the sandbags that they used to hold the flats down. Is this something so horribly humiliating talk. These posting your head through a hole. Yeah. Man especially when you're approaching fifty. Oh. This is what's happened. Just, poke your head threat. It was fine. It was nice to do it and you know I had to remind myself like listen this way worse than this Antares. I when I. Kind of like precarious position in front of cameras, which isn't huge hugely often. But sometimes, I always have like those body experiences where I see myself an all I can see is just horrendously blank faces looking at me like I'm a fucking piece of shit. They. Spread. The faces of the crew or an imagined audience. Added the faces of the crew but they're like you know multiplied by million their astounding that just just horrendously horrendously judging me as I'm going swinging and the AD in some sort of harness. Suspended Yeah, a humiliating job in many ways can be very humiliating especially when you're doing comedy because it's you're asking so much really I mean to make someone laugh is a difficult thing and it it depends on so many things and if you're not feeling at one day, it's so hard and if you're not confident about what you're doing, it's absolutely soul destroying to try and do it and go through the motions you feel like the most awful person. I think I am as well when I, when I first job on set I thought it was going to be like you comedy Gig. So I thought everyone in the crew just be kind of laughing how. Very very but obviously, no, one can love because they're behind the camera. So you just more often than not it's like very, very solis kind of empty hollow sets of silence while yours desperately like clowning around trying to deliver these these jokes and the feel like when you're on stage, you get a reaction well, hopefully direction sometimes. I actually was thinking earlier about I feel like the first time I met you we were. We were supporting you in Manchester. Open you Manchester we did really bong. Did you? Yeah. Really because I think people were. Expecting light your your show. Quality, terrel. Well speaking of ferry low quality material me and Tash than came on open to the show as we we used to do the set called sexy. American. Goes which were basically like tash gyrating the front in like an American flag and I would stand nervously at the back. The audience had absolutely no idea what was going on. We bombed for about fifteen minutes you because you came on just shopping you want America were you. You're kind of East European or something yes and European. What was the sexy American goals based on what was the inspiration for that because I did a few shows with you doing that. We I mean, we both did separate characters. We both did like I did to do a character. Who Very, very like an Eastern European car to very, very, very shy and soft spoken and Tash Easter carrot to Coppola. who was like really outrageous Greek character where essentially she's like. Sold pizzas license as far as I can remember Oh. Yeah. In a pizza cost you. And I think someone else to do a Gig together and they were like, why don't you just do those characters together and you just your sets together or something we kind of what I would be funny if they're obsessed with America and they like they wanted to do was go to America and that was a big tree, but they ended up here by mistake. So that's kind of how it. How we started working together, just doing not dot set but now you're doing a show together on TV. Congratulations. Thank you. It's that's great i. You know that I think he'll great and I think you're very funny. Not The sexy American girls that they were. Going to. Be In the show. We do we don't dissects American girls, but we do in the pilot we did. These characters who were setting up a nail bar who were kind of. loosely. When I say loosely I. Mean strongly based on the sexy right So that Belbey in the series and you have sort of thing like God is it okay to even do accents these days like of anyone I mean even the. Had to radio interview for like five live I, think recently and someone asked me on there. They were like the characters Polish and how do you feel doing Polish Axon number one I was like she. Yes and Assumed that she was Polish, and then I just I honestly froze and I went I think I said something like well I had a distant on to was Polish. Really, say that I think I think we always. Joke around with the accident when I was younger something I grew up with and then after like I'm GonNa get. Dumped into the sea by twit, some of my best friends. Polish Well, you do one of those like. DNA tests and find that your two percent Polish and then you know you'd have to stand on I spent a long time doing character called Pavel. who was kind of I don't know what the accent is. Renowned again, I'll be watching TV. And someone will come on. It'll be like Oh that's my Pavel Alex and so where are they? I went. But yes, as you say, some people would say very confidently Oh. Yes. That Belarusian character that you do know something like that. You know. They would be right because she's for Belarus. Share. People right to call me out. I, want to be called out but I don't know that so much I agree with in the movement of. Making comedy progressive, and there's other stuff that I'm like come on. That's just. Yeah. Exactly. I duNno I hope that it I hope that the needle ends up settling somewhere in the middle. Yeah I. Love My middle. That's my favorite line of being in the middle of straddling I, love straddling style. Between two field I just love straddling I'll straddle any old thing. You know who else loves straddling. Cardi B.. But I want I'm not going to talk about that. Yes. I. Do want to talk to you about that about Cardi B. and that song but I'm I'm I'm GonNa talk about it at the end. Okay. I'm John You have a plan for this conversation. Yeah. I don't think there's any this. This is the only thing that I've thought about previously. I wanted to talk to you about, but I don't think any way of talking about it without being filthy absolutely. Yeah. Dot Dot dot going to be filthy. It's going to be a filthy chat. So that's GonNa be at the end. She's got a very nice voice. Ever tried to get no but I think she's funny. I've seen interviews with her anyway look we're getting ahead of ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. But I agree I think she'd be hilarious and she is so mad she's mad but I mean I have read stuff from. People who say that she's problematic. But these days I mean everyone everyone are is and should be problematic and yet humby has the potential to be. I would just like more. Transparency from the people who are lobbying the word problematic around and more acknowledgement that they themselves in some way are certain to be problematic. There's going to be someone who cool someone else problematic who is themselves possibly? Problematic that's happened before loads of times. The whole history of now I mean I can't cite any examples off the top. I wish you could type that kind of thing in to go and get a good hit hang on. I'm going to try times when judgmental people. have been proved totally hypocritical. and the hits I'm getting on not satisfying in any way. Ten best judgmental people quotes. Six ways to deal with critical judgmental people. From tiny. Buddha. Would you like to know what those are? Yeah. I would acknowledge the pain. What does that mean? Little? Buddha, says, I've learned to acknowledge the discomfort with harsh words. This doesn't mean wallowing in the pain or crying endlessly but simply practicing awareness and noticing my own sensations and feelings as they arise without getting overly attached to them or pushing them aside. So this is a website called tiny Buddha? Simple wisdom for complex lives, bite-sized Buddhism really for Everyday Life Yeah if you've been judged harshly. Yeah. Then basically tiny buderus saying enjoy it. Try to enjoy it. Well, it's like Kim. Kardashian she got famous by someone leaking her sex tape. So she got famous it sounds right but I couldn't tell you. There is someone who has reveled and people being judgmental about and turned it into. Absolute Wads of green. Kim Kardashian sex tape archives, and now, and then I just watch you watch the sex tape the next five minutes. Now, let me go back to Little Buddhas advice for dealing with critical judgmental people. To embrace your own fears and insecurities still it was still not dealing with the actual people Mitchell. Buddha has kind of projected it back onto you. You're how do you deal with it? It's not really talking about. The greater societal impacts of that it's more like how you going to deal with the judgment. Well maybe that's the point we should be resisting the urge to change the other person or be judgmental just back in their face, and we should just yes well, lead by example and it out in a once a day I like to quote Gundy Yeah which one do you quote an eye for an eye data makes the whole world blind that's the best one. Have you got any other Gandhi quotes part from that one? Dress, impress every day. That's classic. Gandhi. Funny. You should mention that but I've got that quote. On a poster. Done in really nice writing I've go on my kitchen warners live. Love Laugh Per Sakho. Time. I went to a house wants Yeah. It was pretty great and Now there's more to the story than that we went to. A friend of ours was staying in one of this is a bad way to set the story I'm going to stop. We. We went to stay in place and it didn't belong to us and the people who owned it what there and what they had done was paint sort of inspirational bullshit a massive massive letters all the war. Like it was a really nice place and in this big airy, very minimal kitchen space with white walls they had just painted fucking bullshit all over the walls like as you said of, you know Inspire Yourself fifteen times a day, and if you can't inspire self then inspired child. I'm no good at making these up. It's sort of like modern religion. Really those kind of things keep calm and drink coffee keep calm and. Flush the chair they tweak a cynical streak in me and I just tend to feel you know that kind of thing should be something you've discover for yourself. It shouldn't be painted like rules on. A. Book around the House just painted on the wall. Now it's it's deeply deeply. Sexy Doubling Hang on I'm looking up some inspirational quotes. Think I, did some inspirational made up inspirational quotes on eight out of ten cats does countdown. And I think they didn't use the bit. which isn't surprising. First of all I'll read you some real inspirational quotes that I found online. Let your smile, change the world but don't let the world change. Your smile. It's okay to be a glow stick. Sometimes, we have to break before we shine. Holy Christ stocking. Tortured isn't that, but he's making them up like who's making them up because you know often you'll see a very nice quote by someone that you. Just pulled out of. The noneya novels or something like that that's interesting or nice. Yeah. And then the inspirational ones which seem seem completely arbitrary to everything and anyone and that just kind of Beige these some of my quotes I did on eight out of ten cats does countdown that they didn't use. This is something that Hillary Clinton said not Hillary Clinton but. Clinton. She said killed them with success bury them with a smile sh. Shit, on them with a sheet. Laughing at my own made up quotes. You want some more. Yep, and he's his one from sugar. Not Sir Alan Sugar Surata. S. U. R. A. L. A. N.. Sarah opportunities a lot penalties if you miss them your account. Brilliant why do they call those in the show? They cut the because no one laughed at them. In the studio or the audience or anywhere that was another big thing that we absolutely bombed on as well. Ten Cats Oh. Yeah. Really. Just I mean just silence in the studio I think on the show they must've added laughter because I remember I remember getting. And those they give you wine they they do if you want. Yeah. So we got more and more pissed, and then by the end, it was quite fun because we were just sort of taking the piss off Jimi and then like astro picture of a cow with. Jimmy sucking off cow. And on desk kept showing it. So. We will bite howling, but the audience was silent every time we spoke. I had shows like that. I've ever really nice ones on that too. All I've spoken to you about is bombing onum in various guises I know it does I do tend to focus on failure to me. It's funnier talking about the Times that you've like absolutely died being like I. Remember that Gig I did where It's funny actually because everyone was laughing. That reminds me of a funny story actually was invited on Jonathan Ross's chat show and I went on there and I smashed it and I could tell within seconds that I was smashing it because the audience were laughing so much some of them were crying Jonathan scribbled a note in the commercial break and passed it over to me and it said you'll smashing it and then off to the next day those articles in all the newspapers about how I'd smashed it. The funny thing is I didn't think it was gonna go as well as a new is going to go well. But I didn't go that. Well. I should tell more stories like that. His your wikipedia entry. Elliott white born nineteen thousand nine. English comedy actress you. Okay. With US rather than the Post structuralist act toll that I generally favor when talking about women acting people. I like actress, flirty fun yeah. Coquettish. It's Nice actress I got into it because. From reading The Guardian I. Think they say actor rather than actress and I thought yeah I think I would depending on who I was talking to introduce myself as an actor. Yeah I mean I probably say but I don't feel offended by my wikipedia page. Okay. Any white is an English comedy actress most notable role today eight is as. What are they gonNA say Francis Pinterest. Yep. Princess Beatrice of York in the spoof royal comedy. The wins is that the most high profile thing you've done you think I don't know if it's high profile, but I think it's. Possibly the most like what show that I've been in and it's on, it's like third series so I really like. The windsors? It's very funny. It's very funny. Yeah let's Channel Four. Isn't it Jonathan? Yeah Yeah. It's very. Fun To be in for sure that's a good cost as well. It could it. So for those of you have never seen the windsors, you're looking at a British Sitcom parody of the British Royal Family House of Windsor. And Harry Enfield in the. Hayden Gwynne. Hugh Skin Louis Four Richard Golden. Morgon Robinson. Katie wicks Ellie white you're just talking Wadham one name name name name. Love it. Super talented cost and is really genuinely funny. why are you laughing? because. Because of as you were saying is really genuinely funny. You looked really mischievous or just looking at the. So. Mischievous. I was like, what's what's the subtext it? Now. It's funny. It's so fun and it's very silly and light. I would say some of the impressions are quite good though aren't they like you're quite good at impressions not I'm not. I'm definitely not doing an impression. Know what she speaks like. So I think Harry is an is doing an amazing Shaw's impression but. OFF I. Have never heard Princess Beatrice speak. So I'm not I'm just doing a silly character really. Well though she probably not dissimilar she no surely not the thing is about them is the I have a kind of strange empathy for those two guys especially after the absolute trash heap as dodds. Yes, he is problematic. To say, he's problematic. I'm not problematic. I've got no problems. Let's as well forget. Foggy, and her suitcase of cash. Dougie, and she's really I mean Katie Wakes player and she's absolutely amazing. Yeah, she's so funny but she she's really tragic in the show if I was to think of the royal family watching the winces that's the only one that I was go or should've it. That would be quite tough to watch. They claim that they don't watch the crown. Do you believe? Absolutely not I don't believe it. You reckon there glued if you out this is okay. This is specific to you. If someone said, we've made a biopic about your life. You're telling hearing for biopic rather than bio pic. Sorry. I'm just getting stuck on your pronunciation. That would is that wrong that you're talking about a biographical picture, which is a bio-pic bio-pic. The sounds like it's dealing with biopure, which is the narrowing of truth and meaning in order to win awards. Oh. My God. said it wrong I'm sorry. I'm terrible I'm problematic for bringing that up I feel like I've been impaled. No look. Not only did I. Derail you in a very way I did so to humiliate you pronounce Ta Tion, which is not cool especially as I mispronounce things all the time. And listen I you learn something new every day here is bio-pic. I just want to say that I'm sorry for the pain I've caused and I'd rather you tell me than for new to get angry letters of. Lettuce. That snake with hits that you have. But you were saying, I, apologize for derailing you. Make. The point that if someone had made a bio-pic biopic, it's cool. About my life. Yes. I would probably want to watch it. You would. Would I though would you? would. You someone did that? Yeah would I Would I would. It would be weird though I mean it would. It would be shockingly strange. There wouldn't it to see the way other people saw you in that way and just to play around because now the crown, they don't even stick to the actual facts of what happened anymore on the crowd. They just make stuff up randomly I've never watched it but people say is brilliant. The first series I thought was brilliant I was less keen on the second one I just thought. Was it the second one third I can't remember anyway the first series was good and then I, enjoyed it a bit less thereafter. I find it strange. The only GonNa do modern day on it because the winds is one thing it's just a parody assist the so of spitting image type thing. Yeah. But I mean I. Kind of real life things that happened all the time based on real people don't they i. do something kind of perverse about it to me. I agree I think it's strange if you're. Portraying people who really existed and are still alive. Yeah. Diana they'll do the whole Diana death I find it just sort of harrowing harrowing about it. I'm not interested in. Is. Harrowing it's sick and it's offensive. Bumped into you. Supermarket was backing out of blocking space and I hit Y'ALL CAA. I'm sorry. We or angry now Barry Akra now and that making me very angry too. How do you feel about the UK's current number one as we speak. Cardi B. and Meghan the stallion in the number one spot with wop Owa p. it is an acronym you're aware what the acronym stands for yeah. Okay I won't. Say. It's in the song. Let's say insensitive. Well. No. I. Don't want to say it because I did a I did an ad for my book for the podcast and I did a spoof of the song but I said the was. Wet Ass et CETERA and I played it to my wife and you know it was a joke. It was like I. I made a joke out of the fact that it was. Anyway. It was supposed to be funny but she said, don't don't put that out. It's. Totally inappropriate. You're fifty one years old. Say That, you're not dragging me into the depths of hell with you. I didn't know is number one I didn't know someone I watched the video before I actually knew what the song was code or what it was. So mainly in the video, I didn't even really listen to the lyrics I. Don't think so I was just like, wow of like in the video I think they say. Wet and Gucci in the radio at it yeah they do. And I remember just being like this is a huge assault on my senses in a good way. Visually that is the only word I can describe it is yeah. I think I had the same reaction. Mine was Yao and that it was all the reactions. Wow. Oh. Okay. I. Think I'm not easily shocked but I think I was quite shocked I was shocked I was quite well, I was I was forced to say, yeah is actually visually really really cool I think. The lyrics are another. Another story have you read the Lyrics Online? No I haven't read lyrics online but I, think. There's like a mop and a bucket at some stage to mock pop, the juice is pouring. From her pay. Would you like me to read you some of the lyrics? Yeah and I'm going to replace some of the more explicit lines I well. I'm going to replace the acronym wip with the phrase, the neighbor's cat. and it'll be obvious where I've replaced some other words and this is not all the lyrics but these are some choice versus. I said certified freak seven days a week. The neighbor's cat. Make that. pull out game week woo yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah you fooling with the neighbor's cat. Bring a bucket in a mop for the neighbor's cat. Give me everything you got for the neighbors can't. beat it up noodle Katcha charge extra large, and extra hard. Put the neighbor's cat right in your face swipe your nose like credit card hop on top I wanNA ride. I. Do a little while it's inside now. Do you know what that means Nothing Hegel Morris dancing routine I think it's a pelvic floor exercise. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Look I need a hard hitter I need a deep stroke. I. Need A henny drinker. Once that Hennessy. May. Really like the fact that she says, look look at something very important Tony. Blair. Look look. Look Anita. Hard hitter anita deep stroke. Anita heavy drinker. And Anita wheat smoker. Not a garden snake I need a King Cobra with a hook in it yet. Hope it. Leonova, he got some money. Then that's where I'm headed. The neighbor's cat a one just like his credit. Spit in my mouth look in my eyes the neighbor's cat come take a dive, tie me up like I'm surprised. Let's role play. I wear a disguise I want you to park that big MAC truck right in this little garage. He go to bid well, I'm trying to wet I. let him taste it now he diabetic yeah. Yeah. Because it's so sweet. He's made a diabetic. I don't WanNa spit I WANNA. Go I want to gag I wanNA choke I want you to touch that little. Bit. Actually. In a way, the writing is very good in some of it. I want you to touch that little dangling Dang that sprang in the back of my throat. All Yo. It's quite good though. Is very specific is very specific. And she's but she's found new ways to. Think about these things described these things and that's that's the object of the exercise I. Mean This is what Pop music is supposed to do though you have to remind yourself and it's part of a long and proud tradition of. FREAKING people, out with sex chat in music yeah I to me. It's great. There's a lot of metaphors in there which I love to see in the song I don't WanNa Grass Snake I wanna King Cobra like be a number of things. Yeah She be talking about a number of things do you ever have? More conservative thoughts and just sort of thing. Well. Where is society heading? If you're pushing the boundaries this fall back then everything just becomes less and less cking everything becomes more extreme. This is taking place in the context of a violent pornography. Cheapening the experience of sexuality I'm saying it in a funny voice to. Try and deflect criticism for being extremely prudish conservative. But I do think some of these things. No I you know it's hard. It's even hard. Is Difficult like feminist position to be in this coups, lots of rifts within feminism as well about like. You as a woman feeling. Power and having power over your own sexuality and your own body that she obviously does you know she obviously has a very sexually liberated and stuff like sexual person. She loves talk about sex all the time and she. She's quite entertaining with as well, but she is quite funny yet this is when I hear my dad's voice in my head and his problem with this kind of thing, not specifically of sexy but general, he would think that Oh, well, you sort of cheapening things that shouldn't be cheapened things that are really important and should be special, and if the currency for the way you learn about those things will discuss those things. So debased, then you never to be will debase the experience of those things. I guess it's difficult because you don't want to also. Don't want all meant to think that women are basically Jusuf. Right? He likes like absolutely like just drinking at all times waiting to be penetrated. Because by isn't true. Isn't true and. That's probably something that should be talked about more female dryness. Maybe. All to yourself. Comebacks on about female join and being the DRYEST P in Tau. scratchy that could be your rap name. Because I think is probably a male fantasy or a sexual fantasy whether it's male, not the the. The, P. I'm literally saying because I know my mom's GonNA listen to this. I don't think she could take me saying, say the neighbor's cat, the neighbor's cat. The you all you all constantly. Neighbors is is dripping wet will the time? Doesn't and Sam better that's. The here's the thing is that you know is still. Too evidently, it's not supposed to be an instruction manual for. Steel opinions on sexuality or how to treat women? It's a piece of entertainment and instead of mad fantasy. But and as I said, you know it's in the tradition of of lots of other very suggestive songs I. think it is good woman talking about her genitals. have been a lot of men who've taken ownership over that in the past of this quite nice that it's like a Gulping I enjoy sex I love sex. This is what I'm going to talk about these things I, like. and. You know here here at my breasts as well on top of that here they are in the video plane in, you can see them but. I did. Like I did they would definitely there. Grace Jones pull up to the bumper. That was some pretty saucy stuff. What was in DA pull up to my bumper baby in your long black limousine pull up to my bumper. And drive it in between. pull up to it. Don't drive through it back it up twice now that fits Nice Greece it spray it let me lubricate it. Will you go George formby. My little stick of Rock I. Think it's called. So this is the thing you know that's to me. That's just. Literally. Just as study if not more. Yeah have a quick listen to that. Nine. In. Round. Of. Last rock. Along the problem. Is Thrown. It man be sticky but. Complain it's nice to Middletown. Evans Wherever. The All round. ME. Well enough to noon the conductor on this down. Somehow back mid-flow Altair in. So, jump in and then conducted bound with. Oh my God. The idea that is very, very offensive it's look it's laden with Innuendo I think it was even banned at the time nineteen thirty seven according to socio musicologist rock critic Simon Frith the management of BBC radio were concerned about broadcasting the song because of its sexual innuendoes especially with lines as with my little stick of Blackpool, rock along the promenade I stroll it may be sticky but I never complain it's nice to have a nibble at it now and again that that's worse I would say Is was. Also County. Bring that she's asking you to clean up after yourself. She's also bring them up in a bucket and Hughes. He's all he he's that's much worse. It's disgusting and so I've done just to make it clear. What's going on is I've stripped out the Innuendo from some of the lyrics instead of my little stick of Blackpool Rock, I've substituted the word Cock. Just to make it clear and so this is what he's saying every year. When summer comes round off to see I, go I don't care if I do spend a pound I'm rather rash. seamy dressed like all the sports in my blazer and a pair of shorts with my cock along the promenade I stroll. It may be sticky but I never complain. It's nice to have a nibble at it now and again, one afternoon the band conductor up on his stand somehow lost his bat on it flew out of his hand. So I jumped in his place and then conducted the band with my cock. With, my cock along the promenade I stroll in my pocket, it got stuck I could tell because when I pulled it out it. Is when I pulled it out, I pulled my shirt off as well. A fellow took my photograph. It cost one and three I said when it was done is that supposed to be me? You've probably it up the only thing I can see is my cock. It's so our is actually does pretty special. What he's done he's sick. Absolutely sick and. When the next time someone. Tells Cardi B. off she should just. I don't think she cares I think she is having the time of her life. I don't think she gives flying. Tokyo Alexandria. She could never make a website I thought it was something you had to hire other people to do because of the technicals computer talking language. Day choose listening to your favorite podcast. You heard an ad. For squarespace, well, you got to their site, they got templates. Regan. Fill it it and that's it. It's pretty easy I. Mean it's not really a great story, but then something happened. Something, Alexandra. Didn't expect Oh. Yeah. Wow. Why what I decided I was happy and I was going to go ahead and purchase by website I put in an Africa Buxton and I got ten percent off. But yeah, that was that story. Wise. Alexandra's website is now up and running. And it looks professional. Looks Right. Next on the PODCAST. What would it be like if someone eight apple I was looking forward to it apple by someone else it was. Continue. Tenley tender. Beckham. Hey welcome back cats that was ellie white very grateful to Ellie for making the time to come and talk to me maybe one day we'll get alien tash back on the podcast together. That would be fun. I. Think. I have posted links to. Various bits and pieces mainly alien tash stuff in the description of this podcast a few of the videos that have made me laugh particularly including that one that was mentioned fairly early on about their. Lockdown routine inspirational lockdown log. And a few other bits and pieces related to Elliott Tash also in the description of the podcast this week. You will find links to. Couple of upcoming events. One of which I've mentioned before the live podcast with comedian. Susie Russell. which is happening. In, a few days as I speak on. Wednesday. The twenty first of October. That is going to happen at nine PM as part of the UN mute podcast festival check out the link in the description to see who else. Is Part of that festival and also to buy a ticket. To see myself and suzy in compensation this. Wednesday. If you wish if you don't, if this doesn't appeal, that's fine. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. That I mean that's not actually true. We all have to do things we don't want to leave from time to time. But this isn't one of them. Other event that's coming up. And I did send a newsletter out. So some of you might be going barring we've heard all about this in your newsletter. All right. And if you'll thinking newsletter, why why didn't I get a newsletter? Well. You can sign up for the newsletter. which is not a regular thing. I've only done two so far just to let people know about events, but I will send out newsletters. More in the future. So. If that sounds good, you can sign up. On my new website Adam Dash Buxton dot co dot UK link in the description of the podcast. But what I was telling people about in this week's newsletter was another event. I'm very excited about. On Tuesday, twenty seventh of October twenty twenty. At six PM, you will be able to watch me Adam Buxton interviewing two of the comedy world's greatest actors and improvises Julia Davis and Vicki Pepperdine who will be in character while I talk to them as Joan Jericho. I'm sure many of you are already familiar with the podcast Dear Joan and Jessica in which they. Provide, shockingly, offensive and judgmental at and opinions on questions of a sexual nature. It's also frequently. Extremely, explicit and filthy. So trade with caution. If that's going to be a problem. But. It's very funny improvised by Julia in Vicki and they will be improvising with me. Well, I'll be asking them questions on the topics of love and sex and romance et. CETERA. As part of an event organized by Fain if any to coincide with the publication of Jones. Jerry. Has New book why he turns away do's and don'ts from dating to death that is published at the end of this month on the twenty ninth Tober. And I imagine Joan. In Jericho, will be doing a little bit of reading from that book as well as. Answering my questions and just chatting generally about. Their lives and the world in A. Unpredictable unrehearsed scenario. So it has the potential. To be terrifying and traumatic I would say but also I hope. Very funny. If all that sounds appealing. Click on the link in the description of this podcast. To buy your tickets. For a night in with Joan in Jericho. All Right Rosie. Let's head back. Saturday night. It's potted time. have. Sepah. I think it might even be telly suffer tonight. Tell us up with a movie not easy trying to find a film that is going to be acceptable. For All members of Costal Buckles? Two teenage boys. One, twelve year old girl. Alleged men and woman. it's very hard to find something everyone's going to be into not complain about. Tonight I think we're going to go for Biloxi Blues. At, tation of a Neil Simon play starring Matthew Broderick. As a young man who goes and Joins the army and has to deal with. A kind of stick. On hinged drill. Man Played by Christopher Walkin. Very well, and I was reminded of the film because the other night we watched. David Cronenberg's adaptation of the dead zone. Nine Hundred Ninety three I think starring Christopher Walken and Phoebe cates. and Martin Sheen well, he's in it. Hadn't seen it for years and years. And I can't remember why but I suddenly thought let's give that to watch maybe it was on TV it was one of those things where we We were flicking around and there it was. And I said no, let's not watch it. Now that's download the whole thing and we can watch it as a treat next Saturday night. Yay thanks buckles living in Costlo buckles the best everyone shouted and then started singing and passing me on the back. Well. It turned out that actually it was pretty great. I'd forgotten how good it was. You may disagree. You know it's not like there's not that much to it. It's almost like an episode of the x files or something, but Christopher Walkin is really mesmerizingly good. In every scene he sort of elevates it from a kind of a TV movie to. Something a little bit more special. But I think the possibility of BILOXI BLUES BEING A. Crowd pleasing bonds stole. My is fairly slight. We'll see how it goes. All right. Thank you very much to ellie white once again for making the time to talk to me. Thanks to shame Murphy Mitchell for production support on this episode. Thanks to. Emma. A new name on the podcast imitates conversation editing. Thanks very much. And, thanks to Helen Green who has ever is responsible for the Pud cost artwork. Till, next time take all the precautions. And remember. I. Love You. SUBS-. Them Start. Off. com.

the Times Elliott Tash Ellie White John You Cardi B. UK Norwich BBC Buddha Tijuana OPTUS Buxton BBC Murphy Mitchell Elliott Holly Walsh L. E. Grace Jones East Anglia
EP.130 - ZADIE SMITH

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:15:08 hr | 4 months ago

EP.130 - ZADIE SMITH

"I did one more. Gye Broadcast. Band. Now you. That cost out and started listening I took my microphone found some human. Then I recalled it all the noises while. I name as at Buxton. I want you to enjoy. That's the. Hey. How doing podcasts this is Adam Buxton here. Nice to be with you again. Amount for a walk with my dog friend. Dog is up ahead. A name is Rosie. She's a whippet poodle cross. And my wife thinks we should have our bed. But I. think that's disgusting. No disrespect to rosy is implied. Breath is stinky. She sheds quite a bit of hair and. Rosy is a bit of a handful to okay. In price for. You know I've been archiving all my old videotapes recent if you're a regular podcast. You will know that over the last few weeks. Nearly three months in fact. I think I began in May. I have been in the process of digitizing. All the old mini dv tapes that I have in my house. Old Home Movies have family and friends. There's all the. Work stuff that I've done. All the rushes from four series of the Adamant Joe Show and various other. Adam and JOE PROJECTS WELL OVER THOUSAND HOURS OF FOOTAGE And a couple of days ago. I digitized the very final tape. Then yesterday. I began the process of organizing the digitized footage into separate full does this is an interesting story on The twelve terabyte hard drives that I got hold of all kinds of stuff. And as I was doing so I began to see that they were. Bits missing the numbers didn't add up. and. I started to realize that about Hof the digitized footage. That I've spent the last. Ten Weeks, eleven weeks. Laboriously ingesting. On my computer. Had vanished. And I searched for them and there were no results showing up in the search bar I looked everywhere, and I just couldn't find half of the footage that I know that I had digitized. Hundreds of hours of work and you've got to stand over the laptop and make sure that the tape still going some of the older tapes. Kind of costs out or they they just stop ingesting and you've got to keep prompting carry on going just think you're doing a great job. Best right going. That kind of thing. So you call set them off. Off The tapes had gone. WHO's very sad and I realized like. I must have just. Accidentally. Erased them or tried to back them up onto a separate drive and pressed the wrong button I don't know. I've done it before. But I haven't done it for a while. and. It is one of the worst feelings in the world. Because you're already, I already worried that the actual process of. Archiving oldest stuff was somewhat. Redundant. And I knew that I wouldn't be able to just get over it and carry on with my life. I would have to go back and re digitize all that missing footage. So the whole process was complete. In the olden days, I would have gone into a depression for about three days. and made life more or less intolerable for everyone around me. But I'm glad to say that I was able to. Rise above it. And not be an absolute creek. Great. I mean I was very sad and I sat down with Rosie for a while and. She looked at me and said I'm sorry. I think you'll just get you know get into the age now. It's easy to press the wrong button. Convince yourself that you've been careful. Don Good job. And actually you haven't because you're just stupid L.. Anyway this morning. I went back carried on the process of. Organizing the folders. And Guess. What? I found the footage. All of it I stuck it in the wrong folder in in some weird folder, and for whatever reason, the search bar on the laptop I was using just wasn't giving me the right results footage. was there all along? It was just hidden. It was the greatest feeling and. It was. A. It's going to be the lost proper podcasts for few weeks. I'll be back sometime in mid to late September but I'm leaving you with a a great conversation with a returning guests to the podcast the writer Zedi Smith Eighty facts I'm recycling some of these zedi facts from the last times eighty on the podcast. Christened Sadie. Smith. She was born in one, thousand, nine, seventy, five to a Jamaican mother and an English father and grew up in northwest London. She has a half sister, a half brother, and two younger brothers who are wrapping men. One goes by the name of Luke Sky's the other is doc Brown who is also an actor and comedian and was my guest on episode nineteen if the podcast back in two thousand sixteen. Zedi achieved phenomenal crossover success with her debut novel White Teeth published back in two thousand and still popping up on best books ever lists today latest is a collection of six essays under the title intimations. She probably wanted to call it. Ramble book that title was already taken. As you will hear, she began writing those essays, a series of reflections and character studies from Cova Times in the early part of the lockdown this year twenty twenty. In case you need reminding while she was still living in New York. where she had lived for I, think about a decade or something. She was teaching out that, but now she and her husband, the novelist and poet Nick lead and the two children. Are Back in the UK living in London. From where Zedi spoke to me via the Internet. Towards the end of July. I don't think this is one of those conversations where I have to particularly set up anything that we talked about. It was a fun freewheeling sometimes deep sometimes not so deep chat Zedi. And it was really a pleasure to talk to her. I'll be back at the end for exciting news about my new finally revamped website. which as I speak, should be up and running but right now with Zayd Smith here we go. People. D-. I'm waiting for. The reason she was not able to join me at exactly five-thirty was that she had to do a sound check. For another podcast I mean, which other fucking podcast? That's what I WANNA know how is that cool but their soundcheck cuts into my actual recording time. Oh, latest say. Why you sound checking now Don't you understand that this? PODCAST is more important than that. One? Oh. Zayd. Is AIDS. Common, token me and. As she is. A. Admitting. At. MAINTAINS AD. I can his eighty, but I can't sees eighty. I didn't realize I was GONNA be video you'll have closed. Which podcast were you sound checking? I guess there's no pulled the. Show is, NPR. In. America. They need to soundcheck for something. Because it's NPR safety. That's why they needed a soundcheck. That's why they're very careful. They're going to begin every question. By saying sell. Your new essay how you doing are you stressed? Stricter. The train why you stressed today was just a lot of. Everything at the same time. Work. Stuff kids stuff. Gordon stuff cooking stuff. have to go out with friends tonight stuff. Family. Stuff. All. Wow Yeah I'll ask you about the least personal those things garden. Garden what is happening? Well, I haven't had a garden in a long time lived in a flat in New York. So my husband has an eye for these things and he is making the garden look nicer and I am onboard but not active in the choice making. Did you ever big garden row? No because I don't have any like sick opinions. Okay. About houses or gardens. Closes my only interest in the physical. Yeah and art and art though yes. So if you came back and your partner had decided to paint a mural of his face on one of the walls. High. Would there be a conversation. No. The thing about nick is he has great taste. It's true to say that I work at other people's houses and thank God. That's disgusting. But I don't have opinions about taps or whatever I can't choose things. Okay. I. Can't do. Yeah. I'm missing that. Good I've got bad taste I think or at least that's what my wife thinks and we did actually have a conversation about painting a mural of my face on on a bar. And I thought it would be funny and she no, that's not going to happen. You might have nineties tastes, which is a big problem I find with generation. All covered in some fabric because they remember gastro pub in one, thousand, nine, thousand, four. There's a lot of that. Yes. In the houses of is there were a lot of Indian. Wall hangings remember back that kind of business versity big. Were they batty or something like that big secular patents awful. Why quite all of that stuff? I like them for a long time. I remember a lot of my friends had them and I thought Oh. Wow that's very mature. That's very grown up Lou. That's so he? Amendment had enough money to go on a year off, right? Okay and they brought it back. That's what actually meant. Yeah. They just went to Morocco. They had a euro. Wow. I still liked it though I thought it was pretty. A pretty impressive wise and so is part of your work stress at the moment related to in what mode are you are you promoting your essays or what are the stuff up to? Yeah I mean I guess when I was writing them. I was slightly under the illusion I wasn't thinking about punishing them but usually when I'm writing. Might sound disingenuous was genuinely true. I'm just writing I think about it I get very pleased when finished and think, oh, that was good and then usually about four months later or whatever it is this business publications some I think. Oh, God. Starts again it's not my favorite part and this part is intensified because you know the published very quickly. So the work bit of it happened very quickly. But. I. Guess. It's weird. The whole thing is with its we're talking about this particular book it's weird. Zoom. I did a reading last night too I. Think a lot of people I could neither see nor hear. That's a really surreal. Situation Yeah and power imbalances to me disgusting I would hate to be an entrapped listener. Being forced to listen to somebody read a book and not even have the freedom of letting them know that you don't like it by rolling your eyes at them. That's every readers. Right and instead they're just silence the blank zoom. I think it's really weird I. Talk at them and they get no say yeah, it is less than satisfactory in lots of than satisfy turn I miss the people. Yeah. I miss that we are living in less than satisfactory times sure enough. But am I right in saying that the proceeds of like money revenue earned from the essays of being donated to various causes his yeah to the Justice Initiative and the Covid Fund in New York. So. That that part is good because normally when you promoting a book at my case is kind of a lot self hatred like what are you doing who cares? WHO's just benefit? That's usually my thought process goes into A. Spiral of doom and in this case at least. I think I know why I'm doing it is very clear. And that actually helps quite lot. But that's not why you started writing this as in the first place though is it? No I wrote the first one. In a state of mental instability I think it's fair to say. Can. I was really not dealing with anything well, like there were people in the first few weeks. who to me were really heroic. He like got their shit together I mean in terms of productivity but they were just not whining they were crying in a corner they were helping people they were dealing with the situation they were looking on a bridge that they could find and they had kind of practical morality asks you. I was not doing any of those things I was full of self pity and. Terrified and just not really functioning just incredibly depressed and that went on for a while and. Everybody live with I'd had enough of it including, of course, the very small children they had. Of It, and so I had to start thinking what is it that I can do that will help the situation because I'm not helping myself, and I was really surprised to find out that the answer to that was. Getting a few hours a day. From Nick that's the way you can get these hours and vice versa. To write and I found it helpful. The found it helpful. Having something to do organizing my thoughts. And then I sent one of the essays to a friend really close friend oil from work to and she said I found this helpful. And so then I started thinking maybe I could do something which kept people company or something. Yeah. Then I started thinking more about. The purpose of the essays and then when I thought about the money I thought That's. That's actually something. Yes, because we can put some of the early pieces, your talking about the actual act of writing and in the first piece peonies talk about. Writing as being an active control and trying to exert control and make sense of the world in some way and make sense if yourself you talk about the incongruity between a writer's life as written about and. The right is life as lived in other words. That kind of hypocrisy that it's quite easy to indulge in as a rice. You can kind of all is everything about your thoughts and your philosophy in your worldview and. Tell other people about it actual. Wise. And your life is is a complete shit show. there. Seems to be the patent with all writers. The I've ever met or read about. So I wanted to think about that a little. Like it does amaze me how much I've written about. God thin. The philosophies listening but about ethics one way or another in a very stupid way perhaps about ethics and then yet how hard is. To do just even the most basic. kindnesses to the people around me like there is quite a gap. I have noticed that being teaching universities that. If you ever want to meet a really. Reprehensible person you should head straight to the more philosophy department like it's extraordinary. There's an incredible disconnect. Between what they write and what they do, and I didn't know what that's about is it a bit like I don't know if this is true anymore. But I I certainly was aware in the eighties and nineties when I started watching medical dramas on TV, that people in medicine always seemed to be characterized as quite excessive and hedonistic even though the. trucking. Yeah absolutely. I think it must be something like that like you know all the arguments you understand them but you still somehow exempt yourself from them. Moral Philosophy has characters like that and I think writing does too. It's just it's so much more easier to control a situation on paper than it is in life and also people who have many shortcomings. I mean either they just cruise through life. You know happy to indulge though shortcomings or they sort of examined them. And they examined the fact that they keep slipping up and making mistakes and. Maybe, that's part of it. Perfect people. I always think Tom Hanks. If. He goes through life I'm sure he's not perfect obviously, but he seems like a nice guy and he's everyone's shorthand for a nice bloke I met Tom Hanks wants and my brother into we compared notes and well I thought is the it's exhausting whatever the? Fundamental truth of Mr Hanks's character he is so kind and. Generous and so outward facing everyone he meets. And I that looks exhausted. Looks like an exhausting practice what you're doing being so nice to everyone in this room who is not even responding to you as a human being, they couldn't give a damn about Tom Hanks. They're just fixated on this or celebrity even is incredibly generous thing to do to participate in that uneven relation. And not go mad. Did you think like this is insincere or did you think that he was working at being that person even though he wasn't really inside it didn't coming up. I think it's a practice if you just decide to do that. The question of sincerity doesn't really come into one way or the other its effect you have on others and that is quite. That's quite a hit. He practice that he ate involved with I could do anything like that, but it's something to see. Yeah. You also talk and one of the as about. Well, you there's a piece called something to do and it's reflection on why people right and and sort of why people make things and the point of ought in general in a way. And more and more I. Mean I feel that very keenly as silly person and when the lockdown began you know I think a lot of people probably felt it. Who are not so called frontline workers definitely nonessential personnel. Feel like what you do and what you've done with your life is sit of indefensible indulgence. Really. In the face of so much suffering people less fortunate than you. But, then you know you have to of remind yourself that it would be. It would be boring without any stupid things and pointless things also absurd low level pathologies that we've turned into comedy and and wherever. You know it is definitely an essential. It's brightening. Who say that yeah. But. Did you were you surprised by your response when the pandemic broke in the lockdown began I wasn't surprised by wife cowardice and fear that's familiar to me but. I was maybe surprised by just the kind of. Silence opened up inside me I did I just really didn't have anything. To Say Or think I felt very empty an. Interesting to my little little brother, not the comedian the brother underneath that he's very intimate station yesterday and he was saying I don't I've never met say but he was saying when you meditate very seriously you get to the kind of. Core of yourself. What's there is just nothing. It's just a big load of nothing and that's what terrifies people exactly that this kind of quiet. airy place in which really nothing goes on and I was very struck by him saying that and I thought I had a tiny glimpse of it after lockdown and everything's gone. There's nothing to do. There's no purpose and it's for most people I think it's terrifying. It's terrifying for me and so instead of sitting in that medicine moment I wrote book. voidance if you I mean, we're getting heavy quite early on in our compensation heavy story that's Okay I love it I love heaviness. To unpack the fear. If you unpack the fierce? Andy. What is at the absolute vary call of the fear like why is it a problem to just be a blank at the core? Like is it a fear of just? Futility the everything is meaningless. I mean for me it's death. I don't have any doubts about A. kind of having a death terror and needing to fill time with things that I have to think about that. That is a very. Permanent motivation. picky. Sometimes, people are not what's your inspiration I was Death. This is my inspiration. To hear that. Inspiration. Yeah can I think about something other than for ten minutes and? Anything we'll do. Everything. that. Doesn't. Let me think about that too much is very welcome. Though I do actually love. That's about this. Sometimes I like to. COMEDIANS. who think about death rights you think about that ought Sunnite about death I I somehow like it when it's mediated by somebody else I WANNA be facing it directly without any mediation at the risk of dwelling on one of your least favorite subjects in that case what is it about death? Ben That slight such down is it the not existing or the run up to it that deterioration? Infantile view of it. It's like old lookin poem nothing to love or link with I just the idea of not being conscious. I can't stand it, but it's so infantile. But one of the stories that really haunts me from this area is about Susan is mentioned the book who was a great literary thinker and philosopher and. You know smart. Lady. About town New York town. And she was ill about illness and later life, and then she was fundamentally terribly ill and only had. Days to live. But she was absolutely terrified of this and even into the very last. Days of life when everybody had told her. You know there is no way out of this. There's no doctor you can fly to. There's no nothing. There's nothing else to be done she still. was trying still trying to find the doctor on the other side of the country we have the miracle cure and. So I always think about that story because I love Santiago knows about the limitations of. Smart People which are many. You can be very smart and just really have no idea what's going on do you worry that you'll just think your self into a state of panic and denial rather than accept? Migrate. I'm magic late life, Catholic conversion I've always thought IAGO it's going to be one of those Yeah. Yeah something either have you heard or had experienced of any more upbeat end of life Experiences. I have read of them and you know. The thing I. Am Most impressed by perhaps in human existences. Honorable Death. Death is thinks about the pain of others or is that were concern? The People? Closest to me is my husband's mother who? died in. That, way with incredible. Concern everybody around the. Yeah. Right. I'm trying to think of something that cheered me up about I. Mean people do have. So called good deaths like relatively speaking. Anyone, who can still be funny as well anyone is still fight towards the end. That's good. I love that. Identify could manage it. That's ideal. Yeah I. Mean That's what I think I'm I'm GonNa work our pretty funny death stuff. Material. Fun for the hospice. And then a live stream it. Get put on, Netflix? Ideal and. People who just unafraid I'm very you know the. These days about? Bravery physical bravery we kind of. sidelined. More important virtues I'm always pretty impressed by the physically Brits true. You don't hear about danger freaks quite as much as he used to. Know and also because we're not in armed combat, most of the time at least in our. Paula the world those choose those kind of. Ancient virtues aren't so important. Yeah. I'm always impressed by a completely lacking the myself. I'm impressed. Do you think especially in an age of Cova in so many types of suffering that it is now just too grotesque to be into extreme sports I mean if I can speak generally for my people a black people I think I can add the Jews to would never that into extreme sports? Given. The attempts to kill us every right. It seemed unnecessary to Abseil down a fucking mountain. It's a sort of badge of extreme privileges in it to be Bungee jump, right? I. Don't do that kind of thing. That never happened never will be, yeah. One of the pieces in your book is called suffering like Mel Gibson. and. I'm maybe reading this wrong but it so it talks about suffering and sort of suffering versus privilege and. I think you'll sit a saying that actually what's the reference to Mel Gibson? Can you explain that it was a because I don't have the social media's if my friends want to. Show me something. Funny. They have to do this laborious thing emailing me screen shots of wherever was funny and someone who sent me this screen shot of Mel Gibson. I think. It must be on the set of the Passion of Christ or whatever that movie was, and he looks completely calm his normal clothes and he's like man's planning to Christ to his come in broad. With thorns on his head and the title was explaining to my friends with kids on the six what it's been like isolating alone, and it just made me laugh because I've been having these. Conversations in the very early month that were full of. Hurt feelings and misunderstandings. So everybody spoke to felt they were suffering and then felt everybody else was basically not suffering. That was my. Feeling so single people felt particularly benighted people with children felt particularly benighted people. The city felt desperate when the country all different reasons right and I was trying to think why do we have a language for explaining parallel? Different and yet equally hurtful to the subject pain. You know because that's the truth of of the world you can set up a hierarchy of who should be feeling the most pain at a certain moment and but it doesn't work for the people themselves. If you see what I mean even if they rationally agree with you yes, it cleared this single person must be far more lonely and miserable than I am. But the fact is I'm miserable. Yeah I wanted to write a piece acknowledging. The possibility of difference in kind but equality ineffective that's possible. If that makes sense. Yeah, it's so hard. Isn't it to gauge a person's suffering and really there's no point it's like as you say, you know they're suffering and that is their reality, right? That's how they feel and. You know the temptation for someone like me. Maybe I don't know if other people are like this is to sit of you. Know you want to do that Dr Thing and say one out of ten, right? As if anyone's GONNA. Doesn't. Of course, it doesn't. There's a great difference invo philosopher who killed herself and clearly suffered or she was a. You know in some way privileged upper middle class goal in Paris. Jewish woman during the war she said that there's a difference between. Saying what you're doing to me hurts or whatever, and saying what you're doing to me is not just it's like a cry that comes deep from deep within you and when someone says, what's happening to me is not just I feel I suffered particularly. You have to listen even if you can't comprehend it even if you can't. Completely. Empathize with it. It's a cry of pain and that should be your first. Attention, yes. No pain before you start qualifying hierarchy, using it and trying to decide. What number it has the doctor scale. Pain is real and it's too easy to dismiss other people's pain. I find it very easy. Is One of my favorite things to do. That's not true. A bit being ironical there. You say at the end of your book, you've got a nice section of thank yous and the more than just thank yous though they're kind of it seems like a kind of stocktake of the things that you'll grateful for at this point in your life would that be fair? People mainly. It's people but I just wanted to it's more like an accounting like I just wanted to. I guess what I'm living in America that is so individualistic everybody. So obsessed with the idea that. You know they made themselves and their I wanted to. Remember, everybody who? Made me and it's just a lot of people. So it was meant to be my family and got longer longer. You realize how much your friends affect you you know. It was really nice. It was nice to read but I mentioned it because you say at one point that one of the things you're grateful for was that you. You want told you a beautiful until late on in your life or at least in your twenties or whatever, and you having grown up with a firm impression which you seem to still have that you look odd or you're not beautiful I don't know what no I really I dig my face these days. But when I was young, there was no place for women who look like me never mind women for darker the me it was the time of Kate. Moss it will. It was you were non-existent as of female entity and I know a lot of people profoundly hurt by I think I probably was but more than that. I just thought. Fine I. Didn't want, to be involved. In, the entire enterprise. The BT industry, the magazines everything I just opted out entirely which we'll have time to read which was good. But yeah, I mean it's evidence of the misogyny deep in the concept of beauty. Beauty and intelligence of course, considered in opposition always them that's part of it and when somebody saying to you particular when I was first published by stuff these. Interviews with that kind of ninety s generation. Who would say just extraordinary things to me like from like laughing if I said Tony Morrison was. Somebody. You'd have an Iro from that like that wasn't serious writing to why basically why writing is if you looks why would anybody look at you board the writing it's so interesting that kind of revelation from male journalists because you understand how it works rise female beauty. Is Your. Job When you have, you don't need anything else. Why would you bother? Yeah. Now. The last time we spoke on the podcast was November two, thousand sixteen. And trump had just been elected. So we were. We were upbeat a frothy about that. Maybe we should start meeting. Maybe we're the problem every time we meet something fucking horrendous happens. I know exactly five years when you're next on the PODCAST I hope. Can you imagine wow it'll be alien invasion. Well, we'll be living on a different planet because. something. Well, if broken. It could me the other day when I was watching Frost Nixon on TV like you know you you flick around and the certain movies that you think. Oh. Yeah. I'll watch the rest of this and I hadn't seen Frost Nixon in a while and my residual impression of it was not that positive I thought Oh, this is kind of a cheesy doffed film. Isn't it? And I was right. It is. Sort of a cheesy talked. But it's very entertaining and well, you know well done by all the like all the parts of very well and conscientiously put together. But ultimately what you're left with this, this kind of ludicrous confection that claims to be getting close as you can possibly get to the truth of something that really happened and everyone's doing very accurate impressions of all the protagonists. But of course, that's just total. bollocks like it's absolute fabrication. It's nowhere near the truth of what really happened. It's such a strange desire to make a movie like that I. Don't I don't get it but I was wondering though like in the future in the not too distant future, will you still be able to make that kind of film? Will you still be able to just claim another person's life as order for your? Bio Pic and claim to be making some realistic version of events that actually occurred like isn't that the ultimate form of appropriation it's funny that instead of the would appropriation about brand integrity that that's really what people are beginning to think of themselves as something that can be. claimed, an owned and his client proprietorial. That's how they began to think about their selves and. You can imagine and I know from listening hearing people who are writing memoirs now compared to say twenty years ago where they have to get the various participants in the memoir, their parents, their friends to sign contracts to agreeing to appear in this. So there is certainly a new idea of the brand integrity of the human it can be trespassed. It's a strange perspective for me because what the creator of these secondary images of saying usually this is the affect. These people had on. Me Is how they appeared to me, which of course, is also kind of. Right. To Express, how you envision the world, how you see it and how people affect you but yes, I notice even when was reading the Audio Book for this when I was young thing I love to do. Anything because though not wanting to be on film Ham, when it comes to impersonations I love doing voices. So if I did a reading, I would do all the voices of all the characters from all the places with all the accents just like my brother does now I guess he does love audiobooks being an actor. And for the first time when I did this book and I was brought to do the voice of various people Americans I suddenly felt kind of anxiety like not the. Will this be a bad impersonation but can I create this voice that I wrote down in my mouth? Am I allowed to do that I? Did it anyway probably badly, but it did strike me that the joy used to have hearing all these voices in recreating them. I felt a little bit. Unsure I mean. Apart from anything else that I might want to ask you about that I now want you to do your best impression. But it is I. Don't impressions of famous people just kind of. Regionally good. But you know nothing compared to my brother who can do things I? Can't do I can't do Scott Scotland I never been able to I don't know why you just start with arc extremely. And Ben can do. So many different variations of American accents, different kinds of African. American accents from different parts of the country or southern. He's got a real gift when we were kids we do. Repeating comedy sketches, reenacting things. Get a little practice in China beal these different. Yeah. I mean I think it's funny. I was talking there about five picks and saying I, wonder if it'll be kind of voting in the future I I would be sad if it was I like those ridiculous bio-pics I understand that it's not accurate really and I quite like as well films that play around with that. Did you have taught Haynes film? I'm not there which dramatizes various Bob Dylan's life I've never seen it. You know, I. I've seen bits of it always would never seen the whole thing but I love that concept. Yeah. Amber seeing all the stills of the different actors to me that kind of fluidity of self. The Dylan entirely his career is about here. That's the one I recognized but I guess what we're learning is the the feeling that some artists have exactly that I'm not there which I think is Dylan's experience. Lots of people don't feel that way about them cells. They have credibly solid senses of cells and I don't have any issue with that. But I I suppose I sometimes want to defend the rights of artists. Of these weird people who perhaps for. Psychological reasons that should be. Cure straightened out do have a very wobbly sense of self. and. If Dylan didn't have that sense of self, we wouldn't have. All those albums each. Seem to be made by a different person, especially the early ones same with Prince. Prince probably should should've settled down and become one person and worked in a bank or where do put wasn't in do that. So many different princess and prince, different sexualities, different faces, different views different. Everything and. I can only say that someone who? Is. The audience of that kind of self performance is liberating is liberating for me when I was a kid to know, you don't have to be one thing i. find that liberating exactly. For those who haven't seen. I'm not there the Todd Haynes Film. So it's Various parts of Dylan's life and music kind of abstractions on what we know about his life, but they use several different actors including. Cate. Blanchett. To play different versions of bubbles. So it's all colorblind gender-blind all sorts of the they're just imagining these different incarnations and it's fun I think the concept is maybe more interesting than the film but no, it's worth seeing. And It's really kind of brilliantly odd. Here's a clip thing to say to you. Would you like to talk to her white person about race or are you no longer doing that? It's when I was sat next to the author of that book and Hejaz recently tooth lovely. Obviously I'm married to a white person. So that's not really an option I personally don't believe in stopping conversation. I've turtle respect for any in her book. But for me, the conversation is continuing what I do really exhausting is race labor like unpaid Labor in which. Quite often recently on. Poker some radio stations you're asked to kind of explain again as a black person how painful it was to see George Floyd die in street and I do. Resent being asked to perform some kind of pain or repeat what is obvious to any human. So that kind of thing. I think can be exhausting and to be constantly offered such things as if these matters are particularly to you whereas to me, the murder of a man in the street is particular to everyone. This is not my particular concern for somebody to ask me about this matter of justice, we should apply to the entire community. So no I don't I don't believe in no conversation. And neither does Reynier to lodge of course no she of course, you would have written the book fifty thought that year and immense amounts of white people of course, bought this book. So tightly is ironic in the first place. But what I think is really. Excellent is the explicitness of that conversation. I grew up in Britain. If you're going to talk about race, everybody would whisper it. He's Jewish you now. She's Black And that is going on a long time in this country as if you're doing. People who are other than your imagination some kind of. Kindness by not mentioning. And I think. Our work is a good. To. Say Aloud what people are No shame in what we are no need to whisper it. No need to avoid the subject. So I. I'm grateful for the explicit tone as folks I have been thinking back to what were the conversations if any about race that we had in the ninety s as far as I can recall. I. And I've said this before in this cost. But you know I think I grew up with a kind of lazy assumption that we were living some sort of post racial. Fun. Park. You were wrong about that. I was wrong. Turns, out. But in the magazines that we read, say way me and Joe and my friends heat magazine, Sky Arena fhm, select vox. Music Mag nothing to do with clear that point and of course loaded it was all the agenda was sex drugs, rock and roll and celebrities. PLOVER so ACIS Jarvis at the Brits, Spice Girls, take that reporters bomb cetera. And I suppose I didn't read the face but talking about more complicated things in the face. The best way I can put the list. You just gave me with the exception of scary spice. What is invisible to you? What you didn't know you didn't know. Very stupid example, but to follow the music thread. Bowie. Bowie to me throughout my childhood lessons and university career. Meant. Literally nothing I had a vague sense of who he was. Vague. I can remember being in New York. I published went to party. and. I was thrilled and incredibly excited to see him on. Incredibly beautiful. African, model. It was smoking a fag and I went over to her and I go to fag offer as you starting next to somebody and I was like, oh, whatever they went back and I was with a white right and he was having a heart attack. He's like that daily, Bo. Oh. Is it had no. This belonged to a separate world and so the kind of. Services away to the whole scene. Didn't know what it didn't know I had no idea what was going on in black music in agent South Asia. Music in Asian financial or any of this stuff it was just oblivious. And if you're going to participate in the spirit of the nineties. You had to participate in that in music of a new had no interest in or knowledge of the had nothing to do with your. The way you grown up the records in your house the even when you got to the. Cool Britannia. The question was who's cool. Britannia like there was also a really cool pretend you're going on which I tried to the white teeth in all of these little pockets, it's nothing to do with the. Mainstream life. That's what the nineties felt to me like an an absence of discussion. It just wasn't visible the life that so many people were living all. Then you didn't use played the game of spot, the black person on television or the Asian personal whatever quote unquote, minority group. You came from your whole family rushed into point at them and get excited. And thrilled maybe you know record them on the video player, rewatch it. It was that kind of slim pickings. It's hard to. Create now might seem strange to the young but but that's how it was. Later, I found out who David Bowie was an extraordinary artist was these things were assumed at the popular level that we were watching the same things all enjoying the same music all reading the same but that wasn't the case. Yes. I mean there were people corner shop, the band who uh talking about things like that. Just them of course but they did seem to me like Oh why going on about that with what you know? We've solved all those problems or we're all on the same page like racism spied and should be nice to people and just having fun and I guess that's why generations of. Kids of color in this country look to America instead because there was a reflection of. What they were thinking, what they're listening to what concern them. It was three thousand miles distant. But a lot of time it felt closer to your everyday reality than what was going on TV and the radio in Britain. Yes and actually a white teeth was one of the first. It was a kind of a watershed. In some ways I mean of C- I'm not claiming you the only person talking about those things but that was a big deal as far as the mainstream was concerned that was by. You know the fact that it was two thousand, it was a real. Point. Of like my mother's friend, Margaret Busby publishes Extraordinary Book Daughters of Africa almost twenty years earlier. There were people concerned with the explorer writing in this country, but they were completely sidelined. But yeah, I I was young and it was a good story. So yeah, I became the one. Talking about having to have George Floyd conversations, I mean there is a piece at the end of your essay collection postscript contempt virus and I presume that was something that was the last piece you wrote. I wrote most of on the plane coming back to England right? Okay. An obviously after the George Floyd killing. And you say. Well. There's a chunk in there that I want to. What's the best thing in the best thing would be for me to get you to read it rather than for me to read it. I don't think I have Can I e mail it to you? Yeah. Are you okay with doing that. Yeah. I sent you your own words to space. Now I want to read your words through space. I used to think that they would one day be a vaccine. That if enough black people name, the virus explained demonstrated how operates videoed its affects protested peacefully revealed how widespread it really is how symptoms arise how so many Americans keep giving it to each other irresponsibly in shamefully generation after generation causing intolerable unending damage both to individual bodies into the body politic I thought if that knowledge became widespread as could possibly be managed or Madge, and you might find the reach some kind of herd immunity. Anymore. So what do you think now and did that change happen after George Floyd was that already something that had happened. No I I've always felt this way but it's intensified like the best analogy. I can give you maybe something like the two thousand. And Nine crash tonight crash story economic growth. You can talk about like the personal morality of those young men mostly who were generation he went into the banks and perform daylight robbery basically and crushed the world economy and. Certainly. They were digs but the that they were Dixie is not really relevant regulations what stops people from behaving that way. People are greedy people from Venal and people, apprentice and people selfish. And if you obsess about you know changing hearts and minds I guess is the American idea. ONE BLACKED-OUT INSTAGRAM post at a time. It's all smoke and mirrors. The only thing that makes a difference to people's practical lies are equitable structures and in when I think about your conversation about the ninety s part of the reason. You felt that way is because there were these. Reasonably. Equitable structures in place right. So for the most part, we went to school together we the same free healthcare we left for the most part in housing that was hopefully not too desperate. Though there are many exceptions to that rule. So that allows knechtel space for certain things to become less feel less urgent or seamless urgent. But those structures are what created whatever feelings of decency felt in the nineties though at that point of course Mr, Blair had come to pick it piece by piece and finish what Thatcher had already started. So structures like that it's not the everybody was so lovely in the nineties or so on racist but they were structures that limited the damage they could do. That's the best way I can put it. And when I feel hopeful I think. Perhaps, we could have another. Social Revolution of the time we had in nineteen hundred fifty. Making some of the same arrangements it Polish, the private schools number one. Rework that Commons. And this time precisely as we've been talking. Include, all the citizens remember that the subject of this equitable society is not only people Adam but people who like me and people like many other people if that could be arranged. You'd have something really worth having. I guess what? Really? What really depresses me sometimes now, I'll quite often be lectured by sometimes in this country sometimes in America, by young people often white. About What they call liberalism meaning I think they think I'm a liberal or they think what happened in Britain in those thirty is liberalism I would call it social democracy but either way they find it not radical enough sufficient. Something further has to happen and I I. Am Not against something further happening I've really. Object to being lectured by people who had no place in the Commons who went to private schools who went to their Buca, when they needed it, whose entire lives are separate from the Commons telling people who lived and benefited from the comments that it that it's insufficient. That pact was nothing. It was just hopeless liberalism it is in no way. Perfect but. It's at the moment the best that has been managed. From which much improvement must occur but to dismiss it and from a position of rhetorical radical thought without any idea of what is to live in government housing to go to the state schools to participate in state healthcare. This drives me up the wall I have to say, what are they proposing though? Do they give you any? Sense of their vision no. What I'm interested in is the dismissal of people like Bevan the kind of people who made that contract which. The vote itself politicians. They want. Well what do they want I want to know from them not what they say. When they're twenty. I want to know because once you've got to our age, you've seen a few times. I want to know not. Only that they're willing to defend. The police dismantle blatantly racist structures. Now, I want to know when they're thirty five and they're married. If they get married if the poly-amorous doesn't work out, I want to know that they're not going to move to the suburbs and thought this again, I want to know where they're going to send their kids to school. I'm not interested in whether they waiting abandoned. Now it's much easier to weigh the banner. Now it's those choices all you going to participate in the Commons. Are you going to do that? Are you going to send your kids to school with our children. Because that's the fundamental question. Are you gonna live in our neighborhoods as equal participants not as gentrify as are you going to participate in the Commons, that's where justice happens. And I really do feel when I think of the parents whose kids to my school possibly at with some idea of SACRI quote unquote sacrificing Mitchell's or they could have afforded quote unquote better to me that is social justice that's an action. Me and that is something that is worth admiration and it should be encouraged it so much harder to do that than change the picture on your instagram participate genuinely. So I'm waiting to see that happen. I'm really. Glad of the radical noises. But if it doesn't follow through with actual action, not just talking radically sending your kids out of the private school actually participating what matters to me I mean I'm staying fairly silent because not only am I the beneficiary of private school education my children have been privately educated too but then we need to take it out I. Don't mean to make you feel guilty for me question personal morality. You couldn't send your kids to them. It would be the end of the quest, right? It's structural issue. It's not my fault. No, it is. It's a horribly complicated thing. Exactly. If the there you as a parent feel like the onus is on you and it's not. The motivation I would like to think I hope is not like, oh I want keep my children away from undesirable or anything like that. It's just like well was the best place for them to go around here. This is I think that's probably the difference between means and generationals neath means I have much less faith in personal morality I. Know that people do the things they need to do for their family and all the things natural. There's no point demonizing the natural instincts of people to protect their clan, their try. BEC- people that kids. Same with the banks no point saying to people you know it would be really better if you didn't steal. From people they going to but if you create Structures which encourage people. Without delimiting their freedom too much to. Behave with the communal. Awareness, that helps a lot. Absolute and then even more excitingly when people aren't consistently waging war for basic social justice, they have time to think of things they have time to make. They. Have time to write. They have time to. Live fully. So many of these young people are sacrificing their youth for us. They are fighting for us for the future and it's not fair for them. They should be living the way we lived we had. A great indulgence in front of us and they don't have any of that then even have featuring foot because it's been foreclosed with climate change, they are sacrificing themselves. I'm trying to think of what they do have Bobby Schmo does getting out soon. That's I mean that's good for. That's one of the things we talked about last time. More Musical Schmidt hopefully for Bobby. No more actual murder. We'll see what happens with that. He never murdered anyone that did it was it was on position maybe. Rap, the RAP AQAP to play deal back in September two, thousand sixteen to conspiracy to possess weapons and possession of a weapon. That sounds like the conspiracy Paul is moot. It also sounds like he participated in the most unjust sections of the Justice System in America deals which put young black people in prison and insane rate. So go on be good for you, but there was also conspiracy to commit murder. Anyway, so he's getting out. So that's that's good. I'm glad about. What has lifted your spirits during the lockdown if I'm. Able to ask you that question off the cuff, the nature of the protests that really did lift my spirits seeing so many Americans out in the street. So many different kinds of Americans. I've I've was really. Hot. and. And also just. kind of amazing watching history happened on that scale. Like on the one hand, the answer is what those protests happens. The answer is Jewish Floyd but. But people are murdered by the police regularly in America and the question of how. A certain case creates this transformative in historical. Event is not clear. It's never clear when you look back at these mass movements through history, it's very hard to say why this case. But I find that process really remarkable the move from the particular event to the mass movement. Is. One of the most exciting and fascinating transformations were capable of. Everywhere. All around the world. I, went to A. Protest March, in Kilburn. Family and kids. that. Just the idea that change is possible that always is. It lifts your spirits. Aside from that, the same is always books music. Comedy. Stuff of you've been into. Things into time. Well nothing ground shaking Louis different for everybody else I really like I may destroy. You haven't finished Oh. Yeah. We just finished last night I'm just that was a journey. Didn't you? How far through you? On seven for me, it's not even about. When I listen to people talk about it, they're often talking about the manifest content like what people do, what happens to the characters and that's all completely cool and interesting. But to me, it really wasn't that which blew my mind it was the actual. The way it's written the movement of the scenes the way the camera is just the whole surprise of British telly. Doesn't like that. Normally I don't just mean doesn't normally have those people in it. It's not usually that innovative that I or that kind of set challenging the narrative aunt usually that complex is like, oh There's like a new scene in town and it's really it's great news for everybody because if they make that. There's a lot of other shitless possible. Yeah. It's definitely more interesting tally. Definitely earns the description groundbreaking in a way that very few shows which are supposedly groundbreaking do and. It really wrong-footed me right the way through which I haven't really had gone. Yeah. Great. And at various points, I would say, Oh, it's GONNA turn out to be that guy that's even said like it's that Guy Oh. That's disappointing. The he's the only sympathetic white character and she's going to dump it all on him. I said and I was wrong and it was playing with all those little expectations that the audience would have a really intriguing and clever way every prejudice every on both sides like every. Assumption and preoccupation it's I. Don't know anyone black or white who hasn't been challenged by in some way. Right there's a very unusual intelligence at work and I've just loved that I wouldn't have thought. When I came back before SORTA telly I glimpsed it for a minute I couldn't believe it was a real show is about. A white detective who is in the Caribbean. It's called like murder in paradise how? It seems to have been made in like nineteen seventy-two. It's quite a throwback. It's a throwback Sunday night show isn't it? I feel a kind of panic like what if I return to this copy? What's going on? I've never actually watched the whole episode. I think I think I probably know a few people in it it's one of those. It's one of those gigs, the actors. Would love. I don't know probably GonNa get cusp saying I was just like wow. So watching the coal made me feel on this. I'm sure murdering Paradise Terrific Fund by the way and I. Can tell from position of total ignorance it seems to be just one of those kind of Nice comforting like it's in a nice location. It's a bit like it's a bit like murder she wrote or something I don't know probably totally wrong. It's a hope nor it's a cup of tea. Exactly but I was really glad. Yeah. May I may display you was doing a different job? Yeah really was excellent. So I, love the she's got the same intimacy a she I mean Michaela call on that show they have the same intimacy coordinator as normal people. I haven't I have not watching all people. Yeah and Sally is a friend of Mine I love that book. But I just I don't think I'm the only middle age person felt just like look. Do I, need. To See really good looking young people say I do not. I do not need to address my day I. don't need I. Don't need I. Don't need. There will come a time when I'd be like okay I feel solid enough to enjoy other people's enjoyment of each other but not right now is good though I mean, I think it's it's a shame that the sexist being such. A headline about that show because it was very, very good on many other levels. I can see, I, mean that beautiful I've seen the pictures that beautiful people. Know. Life is hard right now and I don't let them be beautiful young some rails. Today Unimportant Info Pot. It's a name the turned on thousands of podcasts. Does squarespace actually. Susan. Tell me about squarespace while I make strange noises. So squarespace is a website and you go on there and if you want to build a website. And why would you want to build a website? So you might want to start a blog or create a page for an upcoming event. Or maybe make an online shop so you can sell some. Can Shit you've made. It squarespace easy to use. So yes, it is using templates and drag and drop tools. You can create a professional looking website and less than half hour. Susan, can you try squarespace for free? So yes, you can't by visiting squarespace dot com slash Buxton. And when you ready to launch, use the Code Buxton to save ten percent off your first purchase. Susan. Thank you. That's all I need to. Continue. Hey welcome back podcasts that was eighty Smith of course. I have posted in the description of this podcast a few links to other interviews that she's done a couple of really good. It's maybe even with the same woman. A Danish journalist. And Author I. Think. I wasn't familiar with her. Sydney. Wreath Berg. I may well be announcing that. Well, wrong. S Y. ANY RIFT PA- jug. And it's also linked to Zedi reading the audiobook of her new essay. Collection. Intimations. Also in that description, you will find a link. To my revamped website. I think I said towards the beginning of the year that. My revamped website was only a couple of weeks from completion. But as with many things in my professional life. took. A little longer. Than anticipated. But anyway it's done I think and It's at the same address that my old one used to be at over the new one has been built. Using squarespace my podcast spouses and on that new website you will find. Everything they used to be on the website. And also. Everything that was on the Adam Buxton APP. Now if you were one of the people who downloaded the Adam Buxton APP back in the day. Thanks very much indeed. Hope, you got some fun out of it. But it is no longer being updated. So it still exists. I. Don't think it's going to vanish puff smoke just yet. But at some point I, guess it will disappear. And of course, you shouldn't try to purchase. Bonus content using the APP anymore. I mean nothing bad will happen I. Think it probably won't work. Also. All, that bonus content, which some of you accuses. Able. To. Access exclusively years before. Anyway. Now, it is available for everyone's check out. You will find several whole podcast episodes essentially that have never been. Released as part of the main podcast Robert. One, that I particularly like is a conversation with my old friend Garth Jennings that we recorded a few years back where. I asked him about all the amazing music videos that he'd made with his company hammer and tongs in the thousand, nine, hundred blur and Jarvis Cocker and. Fat Boy Slim. And people like that. There is. Some bonus audio with John, grant, they're. an interview with bricks. Smith's Dot. X. Of the full and there's an interview with. Director Chris. Smith talking about his film Jimmy Andy Great beyond about Jim Carey playing Andy. Coffman and. Going a bit crazy during the making of man on the mood. That's another good one that is a good chunk of extra chat with James Casta. And Johnny Marr. And it's a wonderful place to spend some high quality time. What else have I got that I've got? Well. Lots of videos, countryman videos, and. Various bits and pieces from Bob and things that I've done. With Joe over the years, it's hard to Put everything I'd like that because so much of it just immediately gets yanked. By Youtube Copyright Algorithms but. I was able to put some stuff up including a few bits and pieces from the adamant Joe Dvd especially the. The behind the scenes thing that we made the story of Adam Joe, various outtakes, and bits and pieces and old home movies and things like that. That used to be an extra on the steel as an extra on the Adam and Joe DVD, but now we're living in. Post Dvd Times. I'm not sure if I've put. A lot of podcast jingles there at the moment, but that's something I will get to. You know it's it's ongoing. Basically I'm hoping that this new website is going to be easier for me to update than the old one was, and especially the APP you see that was the main problem for me with the APP. was that it was a bit beyond me technically. And because I'm not very organized, just took a long time for. Anything new to get put up that I would like to say at this point that I'm very grateful indeed to toby and Kevin it really quite something limited who developed the APP for me in the first place and put a lot of work into it. So thanks guys. I do appreciate it and I'm also very grateful to kneel who has built this new site and showed me how to work it. Thanks a lot neal. If you submitted your email address via the APP, please don't worry. You'll details still secure. and. They are not being passed on to third parties and nefarious Internet Ruffians. That safe and sound. and. It may be that get my act together in the coming months. You'll actually received some updates about Tour dates and things like that and maybe book events. Oh. Yeah and the resheduled book tour dates. Are On the new website of course. As well as so much else but that's it today. Thanks once again, very much indeed today D Smith for her time and her generous conversational skills. Thank you very much indeed to shame Murphy, Mitchell for production support and to Matt Lamont for additional editing. Thanks shameless. Thank you. Matt. Thanks to Helen. Green for how wonderful PUTT cost off work. And thank you very much. pod Cats. For your own going support and kindness. Thank you again for for the messages that. So many of you sent me over the last few weeks about my mom. But yeah, you know I really appreciate it and I really made a difference. Thank you. So until next time we meet. Take good care. And For what it's worth. I love you. Her column. On. where? Him.

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EP.128 - ED O'BRIEN

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:09:17 hr | 4 months ago

EP.128 - ED O'BRIEN

"One more. Gye Broadcast Band now you. That podcast out and started listening I took. My microphone found some, but. Then I recalled it all the noise while. I name as at Buxton. I? Want you to enjoy. That's the. The squatting on McGraw and doing a boo as she has concluded and she's joining me and you. She is looking for ski. Please to be outside at lost. It's been quite gray and rainy, but now that's all in the past. Wow. Sunk. It just came to me. And just flowed right out of me. was like I was channeling it. An extraordinary musical moment kickoff a podcast, which features a conversation with an extraordinary musical man. Look I'm getting ahead of myself. I Apologize Hey. HOW YOU DOING PODCASTS! At the Buxton here. For doing well, IT'S A. Blustery Day out here. In the country fields of Norfolk UK. In mid July twenty twenty. And going to listen facts on your ass about my guest today for podcast number one hundred twenty eight guitarist Ed O'Brien who I'm glad to say is a friend of mine. I've known him for. Well properly I've known him for about fifteen years now him. Ed Facts for you. Currently aged fifty two met his radiohead bandmates in the mid nineteen eighty s while attending Abingdon school in Oxford. Though, they didn't settle on the name that made them famous until they were signed in Nineteen ninety-one. Though their first album, Pablo honey featured the outside anthem creep. It didn't prove to be an indication of where the band was headed musically. I remember being quite sniffy about radiohead in those days until Louis through made me a tape compilation in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety six I. still have it I dug it out this morning and it's called Bucky bollocks. And on one side. It's a compilation of artists like the rentals. The adults souls of mischief Roy as grave diggers. Marvin Gaye and Choubey Taylor time I heard Choubey Taylor was on. Compilation and on the other side. Was the whole of the bends by radiohead which had come the previous year. And totally possibly by. Side one is labeled. The Benz and side two is labeled. Men's. I like the men's, but I loved the Benz. I was on board from then on. The Ben's was engineered and partly produced by Nigel Goodrich. Who would produce nineteen ninety-seven album, ok computer, and thereafter helped propel the band to the outer reaches of experimental yet accessible alternative rock fears to come so far ban members Thom Yorke Phil Sell Way and Jonny Greenwood have all made solo albums Ed is the latest member of the band to do so, and he has a solo entity goes by initials. E, O, b his debut album. Earth was released this year twenty twenty in April. My conversation with Ed was recorded in a nice studio at Universal Music's headquarters in London's Kings Cross back in early March of this year. A couple of days before the world. Health Organization declared the COVID nineteen outbreak pandemic that was the good old days when the concepts of social distancing flattening the curve and of course lockdown, still sexy, fun and exciting. To say the opposite of what I mean that. Nevertheless Eboni managed to avoid the subject of the C word and rambled on instead about embarrassing radiohead videos, stolen mini discs, and whether the band made okay, computer really were as intense and anxious as the nineteen ninety eight documentary meeting people is easy directed by grant. Gee, suggested. We also talked about getting cosmic, the romance of space where the Ed really is the fifty ninth graders guitarist of all time, and why he felt compelled to step out from the shade of Radio. Heads mighty creative on umbrella. This is absolutely great. Music Journalism I'm doing here, but we began by slightly rehashing and updating a bit of the conversation I had with Ed about ten years ago. which was the last time I interviewed? Back at the end for links in waffle. But, right now with Ed O'Brien here we go. have both. From. Ohio. We talked before years ago when you came on and did the show I was doing for six. MUSEU big mix tape I love you laughed at the some of the early names of radio heads right? You only Gig. Shindig? Zip. LEPRECHAUN's. That's right. Danzig around four Estonians bundling. I know I still when you mentioned that I still love that. Shindig, with waistcoats and horn players, I was actually telling somebody about this yesterday. Saying that It was at the same time that we have country rock phase RODEO HEAD Very good. A. Code radiohead. Who Do very good country covers of radiohead songs so ten years ago. Though what did we talk about? We talked about coming back off to and making that adjustment. From being pampered and having a very strict, an easy to follow routine to coming home where all bets are often, the responsibility is once again yours do actually conduct yourself in a mature and responsible way. Yeah, and that is I mean I was marveling at your ability to do that or maybe not ability, but it was also at a time. You remember ten years ago when all our children were little yet and it was that thing that you get back off tool and right lay. You know my wife. Trying to phase that I love that, you say. I love it, but I didn't WANNA put him that little voice. So my wife! Susan was at the end of terror. She'd been holding the foot down and you can imagine your way for in fact the first time when my youngest. was born six months later I was off touring America for six weeks and you get back off tour. And of course her instinct is to pass over the kids. Have you get up? And of course you'll not prepared and it's those moments, isn't it? Says five days and you're like you said you've been pampered. Everything's given to you and your life is sorted out, and then you pick up the pieces and I actually back on those time because it was you know. Of course, it wasn't tough, but it was challenging at times. I think you're allowed to say that everything is relative. We take it as read that you and I. Are the beneficiaries of privilege. Yeah. But. There are certain things that are immutable truth and one of them is house politics domestic politics tough, whichever way you? Bet Jeff bezos. Has. Of difficult domestic politics that people could sympathize. I think you're right. They I'm sometimes. You know because of the feeding. Of won the lottery ticket. The you'll reluctant to say, but yeah. It was tough, but actually. I look back on those times. And I really value them because I think like those moments of ruinous as a father and as as a family, it's not just the father as A. In those moments when the shit sitting the fat, you don't what you and you just hold on. The you know the whole thing and you'll feeling like you'll. The worst died in the world. All of that stuff and it is sometimes it's literally you just have to hold on an eye back those times with great affection, real affection and that kind of. Particular because now, the kids teenagers so with you right that whole time that. Lack of sleep all of that the. In I as a kind of magic to it, right? I guess I look back at those times. With mixed feelings. Because I did go through so much angst. Being a not very good dad. You're not very good husband. Nope, very just not very good. Did you feel quite young when you back on? Do you think your kid? Do you look back on it and go? That was a little bit. Was In my? Late twenties when when we had our first child. And just think boy yeah. When you, you know you're legally an adult eighteen I look at my no disrespect to my soon to be eighteen year old son. He's not an adult. And he would be the first. Yeah he is in some ways like wonderfully mature and thoughtful, and so in in many of the important ways. He's very grown up. But in all sorts of other ways like come on May, you're not going to be anywhere close for another ten years well. It's funny, isn't it? Because you think I, think like the previous decade, I think Oh, you know, go I was still a kid when I was in my early forties almost feels like a different person I wonder whether you know when I get my sixties. The fifty so I was really. I wonder it's whether that is just accumulation of knowledge and experience and hopefully wisdom. That must be a and then. Yeah, you just go dotted. And then that's it. Implode yeah and ten years ago. Banned Wise. Yes, you've just done in. In. Rainbows came out in two thousand seven right, so we were in the throes of doing. King of limbs doubling up dramas. Yeah, I mean. Clive didn't join US CJ. And he joined us on tour, but there was lots of you know Sonic Chicanery and wizardry going on with the drums and the album was oppressive. We done in rainbows and had been such kind of tonic Thir- US. Well, at least the release of it was, there was sort of like we had fire, and our betty's again and I think that we really wanted to go in and make another echo, but the truth of it was, we were kind of bored with our instruments, and that was what the king limbs about kind of putting down the traditional instruments, and just trying to jam and make music in a different way looping stuff and Serrato software, which is the stuff us with Dj's using using all sorts of stuff and that was fun. because. I can't remember if it was. You will be Johnny or maybe I. Read an interview. The consensus seemed to be amongst the band that pretty much every record you came close to breaking up another just because the way you worked with so intensive like when those mini discs came out last year when they were. bootlegged stolen, whatever happened. Yeah, these are the mini discs sixteen hours worth thereabouts of okay compute Demo Thomas many this. Yeah, what did he leave? A someone hacked to computer with the. All stuff has been basing most of the rate. Stuff has been archived. Yeah, and somebody just sit on the site and. Is in the cloud somewhere and then the guy that did it. There was a rumor around that he was trying to shake the band down for one hundred and fifty. Guo's all auction it to the highest bidder Celaya okay I read that he complained bitterly. He said no I didn't. He said all I was GONNA do is sell it to the fan. That was it yeah, exactly to the highest bidder. Done, you. That's alright principal because he was right. Yes, yes, the fans wanted to rip off. Yeah, but anyway. I was one of those people that eventually bought them when radiohead themselves said well. You ought to pay for them, and then you can download them legitimately. We'll give the money to extinction rebellion. So I found them really quite interesting. I saw you the weekend that it happened. Yeah, and you saw some guys hack these mini discs, and they're all about to come out. We're not sure exactly what's going to happen. And I was thinking you quite a you didn't. Know. It was trying to be cool. I. Of course they're interesting. Yeah, really Andrea and they were really. Yeah. That's sort of my ideal thing to listen to in a way a weird combination of songs they almost sound like a guided by voices album. kind of scratchy recordings. Of Songs, and then maybe a little bit of something that Tom's recorded on the tube in Japan. With. Callers you have sounds and then a very Nice Nigel Goldrich? Rich version of no surprises, or whatever which is a different to the one on the album. Kind of brilliant yet, and it's interesting because we will all recording at the time and I think I heard some of the life stuff that Thomas Record owners many deaths from that Oh. Wow, that's what he was hearing because his record was set up between him and Johnny and we're in the rounds I was on the other side and I was just a wow. That's what it sounded like because sometimes in that room. Because it was quite loud. If and genuine, the other side couldn't say, hear them such volume, because there was me in 'cause on on my side, or whatever like that, so it was There's some good stuff because you can see like how sunlit paranoid androids came to be. The putting the parts together or com police. The thing to do would be to do a massive edit exactly where you put it together almost did like a Dobie outmost version around around version. Yeah. Guys in Hologram. Sit The future, but you know what I mean as a fan like with those mini discs that temptation is to just spend a couple of weeks chopping out your favorite bits and make the ultimate correlation the way I did when the beach boys released all that smile of in the early nineties for the first time these segments. And I to spent weeks city, making different compilations of putting -tations of it all you know. Yeah, and it was great great, but I'm always meeting. You know musicians and artists of all kinds who get quite frustrated with people like me because it's like well. It's somewhat antithetical to the appreciation of the art. I I kind of. I. Yeah, and I think that's bullshit. My personal view is I like to see the humanity behind the musicians and I. Don't know I've always liked that whole. Dispelling the myth than. It did a blog for when we make today and someone was reminding me about it the other day and the reason I. Did I did was when we first had the Internet nine, two thousand and every night I would do kind of dispatches from the studio. Remember I used to read it right. A my whole idea was. I wanted to dispel the myth. That was kind of this magic sorcery going on, because yes, that was magic sorcery central. For the you visited. Yeah, well I didn't know you at that time when you were doing all that stuff but I knew Nigel Godridge here and there was so much mystique around radiohead, and after meeting people is easy came out. It looked to safe while this is a unit. That's going to implode pretty soon. And there's a very sensitive fragile person at the center of it, and then it must be very difficult for the people around him. and. I've heard you talking before about the fact that that was a hard time for you as well. Yeah, it was a hot somebody. I think you know. We deliberately constructed this kind of this mistake because that was in a response to. Pablo honey and the fact that we. We Really Gosh. It together and we looked all over the place you know. Some of the photo shoots in America bit weird and all of that stuff and I remember like when it came to the benzes second. Who Do we look towards? We look towards the West country tools massive attack and portishead really and they had this incredible mistake. You know they were Uber. Cool the way they did their videos. And you could construct the. It was partly self preservation, but it was also partly as a response to really kind of look a bit naff together and kind of not having got that stuff. I mean I I'm we got our shit together? We didn't know quite really what we were doing very funny stuff. Floating around what the videos where we did. Special and there was a video with you guys in an empty pool. Anyone can play guitar. With Turkeys and Those feather Bo is that I remember kind of. You know. Very proudly sort of showing because I was living with my dad at the time. Tad, look. We've done sort of standing there laughing. Go Go what the fuck is! I'm not proud of us. He's very good, knows another one called. Stop whispering this video with this guy called director Jeffrey Plants Go, and it was in L. A. and He was giving us the Spiel and we were laughing all up. He said I. Feel the sense of Alien Nation in the song, and this guy is going to become more alienated. Song goes on the the way I'm going to represent this by putting on an old light diving valued from so that's juxtaposed against some footage that we shot in this industrial post industrial spotless, full of asbestos. And as big rusty. Remember okay, so all of that and. I'm Tony put Jeffrey Dahmer. He he was like dino dealer. Rent is that you could see go to the guy's head. He was riding around in an open top jeep at five pm finding locations. I find the spot and I maybe felon I kind of balancing this pin cushion. He he kind of pulled us in the direction very quiet was guys, and there's some hat pins in the, and he said just make it your own. Look! And I could hear the hushed tones of people. going isn't Jeffrey genius. So you. Get this video I've ever play. You know because you kind of you know there's uncertainty you basically new pants, but you didn't want to admit it, and then, of course you go and play it to your dad and dad's laughing wants for. The guy the diving see. Why is he suddenly in the picture? And it's like Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why is he that? You remember not learning clue video. Shame about the song. Here's a classic video. Perfectly Nice Song. Disrespect! It was pretty crap, but it was massively pretentious. Pretentious and that was. That's kind of that stage and you didn't. You didn't know to go. No, then once. Pablo honey came out a lot of the time in Radio Headland, ninety percent, saying no, no, we're not going to do that and that's very important. Because that means, you have a sense of self. You know what's right. You know wh feels right. You know what you want to portray. That was very much like. How do you want to be perceived with? Stanley would involve at that point on Pablo honey, but he was him and Tom Because I think the Covera- on the outlet prices, little fruits for Tom on the first record so him. Him and Stanley been to college, and so they worked together on the Ben's cover, and that was the first one that they did together. So that's kind of an important part of leering out of visual aesthetic, and then that sort of feeds back into everything the band does. That's really nice. y'All symbiosis with Stanley often working in the studio while you're playing, I remember he was doing yeah. During Rainbow, it was great and you know New Stanley. Because he was Thomas five breathing friend from Exeter. And then he joined US properly in the studio round. Okay, computer you. He's with us every single album since then and been on our travels in the. Each just such an important part the whole process because you know you. Which sold Butts Furlong while? The control room had this some. mezzanine level if you like this kind of an all converted ban, and it was only slightly gallery up at the top and Stanley would set up shop there for awhile, and he's the here like eleven o'clock at night or something. I don't know anything about music, but this is fucking great. You know he's such a really important part of the process and yet just made it more three dimensional. But then your strategy of making yourselves mysterious dating, yeah ambience and everything sort of worked too well, yes, in tandem with you know a very good album and an album that felt mysterious in itself. You know so the the whole. Okay computer the strangeness and the Mystery of so much of that music year plus. Meeting people is easy, plus all these journalists telling you that you're all geniuses. Well the funny thing about me people's eases. GRUNGE is lovely guy that saw. It's one perspective because every time grant end up until he wasn't for the whole tour. We'd be having a miserable time, but she. We had fun on that tour as well lay urologist dancing around and going with the kings of the West well. Not Quite you know what we're like. We weren't that celebrates re, but you know deep down. It was great to feel like you've made all relieved in I think it's more relief that you'd made a really good album, and that you thought was really good album, and that people are connecting with it, so it was a very very funny time. Because you know all those things all comes to ahead I think. Think for all of us in different ways it came to a head, and obviously it's quite a pound with toleman, quite open with Tom, and see that in the dark, and you know he he comes out in his lyrics and the way he performs and stuff like that, but I think it came to a head with all of us in certain ways because I think. It's that thing where. You know when you've got. For want of a better word Shit. You know you think the being in a great bands and having a great album will solve all of that stuff you know you think are. That's the thing that will make me happy will when you get that, and you realize it doesn't make you happy I think that's when the is a really good thing to have gone through because it was you know it forced me to look at myself. Myself which a great thing you know, not easy, but you know I. Look back on it as you know we were kids. I'm in that same thing going back to that thing. It felt like we were kids and I think you especially. If you've been in a band, most of your working life, you get to your late thirties, not just being in a band, but being an artist being living quote, unconventional lifestyle or whatever. There's much less pressure to achieve a certain level of emotional maturity, yes. In fact, the reverse. And so yeah, you can. It's no mystery. Why so many of these people come off the rail? Yeah, no, for sure and all the things that are on the right as in the the you know, it can be the cliche party if you want it to be. But it will actually you know it wasn't the cliche part? In fact, it was down tickets for radio. 'cause we was so sort of. You know we didn't want to fulfill any kind of bad rock and roll stereotypes. Yeah, but you know we had our own foibles. Ages. Engineer K. For now. Instagram don't people like. People be. picky. picky. But again. -gratulations. Record, thank you and it's not an embarrassing Stinger. Like you. Embarrassing. Well. Just the wording of it. And this is quoting you. Tom Johnny and Philip from the band. Making Music Ed says, and I'm like the last thing the world needs is shit album by me. And then the next line is, but suddenly a switch was flipped on. The songs came pouring out of him, but I misread it. But suddenly a switch was flipped, and this shit came to whoring. Sounds about right, but. It's really lovely and. What it definitely demonstrates is your cosmic side great at his cold Yeah, it's got a sense of the cosmic. In many ways, it's beautifully atmospheric and Moody. It reminds me of one of my favorite albums Apollo by Brian Love in some ways. It's interesting because for me. Music is very visual. A one of the things May. The perspective is music from space. I was obsessed with how music might sound from space and I saw this. One of the songs is called Mass Yeah. That's one of my favorite ones, so that was. The kids to see this film called. Which is made by NASA at the I max down at Waterloo like you know filling a morning. And it's a fifty minute film about when NASA recommissioned the space shuttle, and they recommissioned the space shuttle to fix the Hubble. Space Telescope. Anyway! The Guy, who fixes it is an astronaut, who I'd met and kind of befriend Mike Mussina. I'm watching it and Sunday, because they all the crew shots. All my God I know him. That's Miami mayhem faith. In, HOUSTON. A backstage. In twenty twelve. I get introduced to him, and he shows me a photo of him. In one of the space shuttles with a copy of in rainbows and his daughter Gabby had given it to him because he says I'll take something space. What you want to take an still radiohead obsessive, so she can take my copy of Rainbow. Any he's an amazing guy. He's like this new. Jersey lovely, warm, big guy. In space man. And his book is amazing. It's really inspiration. And so I take the kids, and you see this footage of him. Fixing the the on the space shuttle got the Hubble and they're orbiting around the earth of course as he's fixing it. And the of the Earth below is just extraordinarily it so beautiful. I was so moved by and I became obsessed with this kind of the view of space in the bigger picture, and also you know the Pale Blue Doll Yeah Carl Sagan. Call Sake and so that was the working title for the record. That's what I wanted to call it. Because again, I came across that about six years ago and that image of the earth and those incredible words that call Sagan Rights. Rights to complement this tiny dot. This speck of dust that you see in this photo in this hour is saying this is our home this. Is it so for me? The perspective on the record was it was the micro and the macro so is going right down, but it was also pulling Roy out. Yes, it's almost as if the tracks a sequence so that it's an alternation of fat. He said we start the first Shangri Shangrila and it sounds like you having some. Party Glastonbury. Yes, sounds right and then. You Got Brazil, second track, which is this massive epic starts off lovely folk. Finger picky and then turns into this big Joe. Rave Year Track Cosmic Rave Yeah. You're right video as well. And then yes, you've got these tracks like mass, which is the one that reminded me of Apollo to kind of move piece I'm really still obsessed with that thing of the sounds of space, and there's really I've been reading a lot of stuff like I was reading about the Great Gattaca the age. You know you travel. ISOSCELES triangles. That's all I can think of that Pythagoras. Pythagoras. He was a really interesting guy. He talked about the music of the spheres like each planet had it snow at its frequency, so it was really kind of interested in and I love those Nassar recordings of each planet, which is really interesting. Do they sound like it sounds, but what what? What's making the sound well? I think what they've done. Is They radiofrequency? Yes, radio frequencies and interpretation, and they've kind of they've translate the frequencies into sonic waves or something I'm not quite sure shit to me. Yeah. I like that Shit then I. I love that stuff up and for me as a guitarist. I actually think I realize in many ways is more of an inspiration. You know when people say whose you tires I mean. He didn't play guitar, but sonically always what he did. Yeah, I love that sound because you forget where the Paulo half of it is kind of science fiction moods, gapes. And then half of it is almost like this quite sunny country music like spacey, Twangy stuff yeah. Yeah, and it's Great I. Love the juxtaposition of those two. Yeah, yeah, so that for me was a yeah. That's from Spain. And when did you start getting calls? Make you know I've always been slight because me. I think you've got more. I've been. To go because so. When I was at school, it wasn't a cosmic time in the eighties right now it was anti cosmic. Yeah, anyone who said cosmic was I. Know I know exactly on I was in the smiths gang, which was very anti cosmic, yeah? Eighty. Four miners strike. You know very feet on the ground so. It was always there, and then it kind of a it gets suppressed down and I think what happened with the whole acid house, thing and the whole rave culture that opened. The is again and yeah. I mean I wasn't fully immersed in in a way. The because I had the band. The band me was everything and you know, I wasn't gonNA. Go Out and get months at every other weekend I did occasionally you know the that had a profound effect and that whole I think that went in deep I mean I've heard people who an even condemn. Talking about the value of psychedelics and things like that in terms of. Connecting you to something important. And in terms of stripping away a lot of stuff that isn't important. I'm too nervous I. Don't think I'm a psychedelics person only had. One experience. With mushrooms at university. And, that went badly. Started out going okay, yeah, and then I looked in the mirror and I. Didn't feel connected to the reflection. Mirror the ever had that no. I think it's called a few state rights. It's like I've read that. It happens to some people when they take and everybody yeah. It was really really alarming. It was like I was looking at a club. Yeah, that must be scary. It was so scarier, but maybe what I was experiencing with some form of ego cancellation. Yeah, so I, no longer felt connected to a physical year may be myself. Yeah, and so I should have been celebrating Johnson around three three, but instead of the. That's bad and I went to the toilet in my nobod shrunk to the size of the day. A good. What was Mushoo? I can't say that that's been, does it? Doesn't it doesn't know, but but you know I'm not dispelling that. It's not something I would. Make? Sure. That's interesting. I once got spiked reading festival in the year. We didn't play. Someone gave me some acid and I. I remember I was just so. What's going on and I had an amazing. God. Look into their thinking Elvis Presley. These the classic Vad Drugstore Easy. I think you'll. Not for everybody these things, and now they re not now and if you have you know I. I may well have dealt with exactly Hughes Yeah I'm almost certain. And Yeah if you were ever to do them I, think the people I've heard extolling the virtues innocent of academic sense, always be doing them in in a controlled. With people who know exactly what? They using MD and mushrooms that doing a lot of controlled dosage for PTSD. A lots of and they having incredible results for treatment of addiction I heard yet totally, and my experience of all of those things. are that what that expression gets you out of your head? Yes, so you get a perspective yourself, which is often a really important thing extremely interesting. Remind. To my mind. Your thoughts. To my thoughts. Sometimes I thought to myself like maybe my obsession with space and Saifi and that kind of Bowie esque space oddity thing. Alienated and the Romance of Space Travel I would say. You know to generalize. That is a kind of typically male thing to fantasize about being out in space on your own floating around in a tin can and the romance that and also the kind of romance of missing everybody on A. It's a bit like being out on the road, the pioneer being the great explorer, but it's also kind of abdication of responsibility. Meanwhile, your wife or your partner, or whoever is back on doing fucking hard work, and you are in your tin. Can going I'm romantic. I'm floating around so alienated, so my perspective is slightly different, because my perspective probably formed bit more like two thousand and one that cosmic scene and my favorite foam of the last twenty years I think is genius interstellar I love, don't you? And for me, it's like. I'm thinking in space and I talked to Mike Massimino about it because I'm like. Mike, I want to go into space. The is every time I say this I, said I really WANNA. Go and space some time, and I WANNA go with you because we talked. About how it feels up then how you feel, he talks about this spiritual connection and lot astronauts do so. It's not a feeling of eighty nation an isolation. It's the feeding of incredible connection. Have you heard of this thing? Will the overview effect now? It's a phenomenon. Have generally they got space and they look down on the planet, and they feel this incredible love for the planet in this connection Earth. Our home and it's not like the sitting in marketing Yeah, it's big open. Hearted fucking Hell! People come back very very changed and he took Mike says if we could send the leaders up to space. have any of them gone up and done drugs? That would be over egging the. Double. Someone's going off drugs. You know once they do the commercial airliner thing. There will be some people, weren't they? They'll be. Drug. Did you see ad Astra with? Yeah. That's quite good, isn't it? On I'm not I would hesitate to recommend it, but I. Maybe you would have dug it I. started watching because I thought this. Is Roy my strong? Shoes data she's. Just yeah I know he's Great. I just lose wooden. It's not the best. It's quite clunky, but. There were elements to it that I thought was quite brilliant, and there's a sequence at the beginning where Brad Pitt's character, whose dad is Tommy Lee Jones like far out in outer space, and he's gone rogue and Brad. Pitt has to go in and sort him out. And the first leg of his journey is to go up to the moon where he's going to take a shuttle off to Mars or something. And this is in the future when space travel has been. Turned, into a industry, and so he goes up on a virgin gentle. Exactly it's really nicely done and. It's like. Yeah I saw that detail was great and I just thought there was something like the actual story. I don't want to spoil it, but there are several sequences. Does what bit wary! I didn't think this is a spoiler. Kill someone that has deeply about spoilers. Maybe switch off if you haven't seen Ad Astra bought. If you're normal than. This one where Brad Pitt has to, he wants to get inside a rocket, but the rockets taking off, so he climbs up the side of the rocky. While it's taking off. No, he opens the door and he gets preposterous. I think that's possible. No, that's kind of like a space version of the dukes of Hazzard F.. General Lee. Through the window. I know it's like okay. I understand it's a science fiction film. It's a bit of entertainment, but. I'm not having. Switched off before that so I'm really glad okay because I got to the stage films. If I'm not feeling it I, give an hour or sir and it's like. I'M NOT GONNA. Watch this you know I know you can tell fairly quickly so I'm really glad I didn't see it. Three to gets more ridiculous. Yeah, whereas I have to I'm sorry, but interstellar is all I could watch that every week. Yeah, I mean. That's mad. As well is mad, but isn't it based on cutting edge science by stones scientists? You'll so cynical. I'm laughing it. Amen no like would be possible if you. Go in the for. Love I love it to me. I know, but to me I love it so much and it. Kinda resonates on a way that I feel like, and I'm probably wrong here, but I can feel like almost the it's based on this kind of almost like these scientific truths you know however preposterous it might seem and the whole thing of the mirrors and the different dimensions. Oh my God I just I dug it. And you know the bit where McConnell as watching his doors. Oh! I can hardly describe it without Oh my God and as a parent as well. It's interesting because for me. I think I got bit obsessed. And I read about and in oversee key brick, two thousand and played a ruin important pop possibly for Christina, but it's interesting when you go back to keyboard now because I think in fact when radio had made albums a one stage we like we wanted to be like the Stanley Kubrick of the musical world cubic would make. You know two thousand one, and then he do the shining, or what do all these different times this distinction, yeah, and kind of experience distinct experiences. When you go back to the cubic stuff that so interested in Kubrick's is very very cold and mail. Is like that sitting in that tin can. It's a very male. I did that whole thing with Susan I, said we should watch doctor strange. I remember that being brilliant. I love that film Genius Right. And I watched it with her. And you know when you're watching with somebody who's going like. The women in this you know I was awake into the fact that Oh. Yes, of course he was an era. Everything is very very male. You know the whole making of a film is very male. The protagonists, a male whereas Christopher Nolan. There's this beautiful balance and this love between a daughter and the father and the idea of love for me, the message is. Love, transcending dimensions love as this kind of actual force within the universe for me I really love the whole thing of. Cubic who is obviously a master what he did, but where we are now with someone like Christopher Nolan he's. The so much humanity yet, Kubrick pushed the kind of antiseptic. It was almost as if. Emotions. Were sign of weakness and had to be eliminated. To make the whole thing pure shown how to make clinical and symmetrical beautiful, and which he did. Yeah, that's not to say that there aren't emotions and feelings that are inspired by watching those Kubrick films. This subtle and strange, but that definitely there, but yeah, I mean interstellar that is rural, thrive on on stabbed in the Guy Yeah. I'm put that in space into kind of lie into a cosmic kind of existential setting. It's just genius. It's such a brilliant observation as you say of. A very particular pain that comes with watching your children. It's like the experience of being a parent is an exercise in relativity in a way because your sense of time is so different to that. And, it's so cruel how fast it is for you as an adult. And it's so tortuously. For them. And yet. You're just seeing it was. Is that changing from one week to the next, and you film a video of them being incredibly sweet I had. This video shot my daughter when she was about five or something talking about animals. And, it just used to break my heart every time I watched an as it began to be too painful to watch it because I felt that it was speeding away from. I'm going to pivot. Yell, let's pivot. Up. To stop going on about this. But do you get wound up when you're listening to listen to news podcasts and things, especially, Americans, and when the correspondent comes on, so they say Mike. You've been following the presidential caucuses out there. How's it guy and they to a man slash woman have to begin the sentence with so so. That's going fine, but anyway I'm GONNA. You know the one that gets me is not so it's listen. Listen Tony Blair always. Yes, he loved this. I fucking hate listen Y- listen and Australian cricketers as well. There's something really. Sinister about listen I know what you mean. It's like you don't understand you. Don't understand. Listen listen to me. It's so horrible. He always does a and maybe he always did it, but I started becoming aware of it during the war. You know yeah, and it was big. Listen listen to the whole time listen. It's not that simple. We all going to have to go in and. Listen. As fora, wasn't it yeah? Anyway does not that bad. Yes, so is not as bad as that. Sell nowadays people wanting to in the PODCAST air. Think it's everyone wanting everything to be a story narrative, okay? And putting so at the beginning of a sentence makes it. I think sound superficially more like Oh. This is telling story rather than you can just start a sentence by saying well. You know if you don't want to get hard into the sentence, yes. Peach Gabriel had called so right so out. So. Sledgehammer. Great Album Oh. He's he's. He's definitely calls me a lot musicians that cosmic. That goes with the territory because they didn't have any real response. Properly because we're free of the shackles of. Reality Yeah, exactly speaking of shackles, reality and your job my job. And speaking ten years ago, yes. which was the last time I sat down and talk to you? Mike Around that time I didn't realize that David Fricke of the Rolling Stone magazine. You Know David. Fricke on saw him recently came to one of my gigs guy like I. Love, the music docks, I like and he people don't know what he looks like. He looks like one of the remains like the nerdier member of the ramones. He's such a great guy and he has such love for music. He's like he never gets bored of it. He's got such a lovely energy and he he's interested in musicians and he obviously likes you because you turned up, this was in rolling. Stone Magazine Two thousand ten Roy. You turned up in the list of one hundred greatest guitarists. And I think I mean it did say David. fricke picks so it wasn't. A defensive. Yeah, that's very lovely, but inevitably those lists are always framed is all red as here's a definitive list, yes, of the greatest guitars of all time or the greatest comedians of the greatest, whoever, and of course it's. It's meaningless reuss here. We know that, but still quite nice to pop. Do you remember that list no I never. Uh, let's see. I start reading in twos and all of that around the time of okay compete because it was kind of like, it was so good, and I didn't like the effect. It was having on me. Make me feel better about myself I was so sensitive to. And if it's bad, it's going to bring me down so just A. Good idea yeah. Where am I? What do you reckon? God. Eighty nine bullet I don't know what fifty nine really above the sea already like it now I love Jonny Greenwood. No, he's number sixty. You are kidding also about not right angus. Young No ninety-six Yaish Ward Ninety four robby Krieger. ninety-one Joan eighty-seven Neil young eighty-three were Dave, Gilmour eighty two Joni Mitchell seventy two lightning hopkins. All of these people you are above I'm a fraud link. Wray Mick Ronson. Fall, my God it, says. Ed O'Brien, radio heads to lead guitarists. Relationship, we'll you to lead. Guitarist Janis the League Guitar I. See Myself as kind of like the sweet roll like that's a football analogy that you know about. It Sport Ball. And the sweep is the guy who's light between the the defense, and takes the ball up defense up at the field, or wherever so it's kind of like between rhythm and sound, and I mean yeah, I mean it's preposterous is good though by Don I'm not even embarrassed about it because it's just not something that. Says any relevance to truth now it's nice there, but it's nice obviously I. Mean I think as well the other things about radio. It's like you know. I've always felt a lot. I think I've been quite open about I've always felt deeply insecure about my playing competitive. Tom and Janis. Their incredible players on. I've always felt myself if I'm honest, slightly inferior, so my people are inuit, some important in terms of sounds of because he knows not like he's virtual. Virtuoso and The people that I really loved as guitarist with people will sergeant from the Bunny Man. Johnny Marr from the smiths the edge. They can be virtuosos if they want to be, but they chose not to be. You know so. They were kind of like my yardsticks Thomas. Johnny will always like for me. I've always held them up in really high esteem. Continues a Jonny Greenwood is close to a traditional lead man. Yeah, those saw his unwell bends at the end of just paranoid android. O'Brien likes the wacky noises, the ghostly above the NUT Jangle. Tonight. Of the Jangle on okay computers, lucky, and the high reverberating POPs on hail to the thief's two plus two equals five or also Ed's handiwork. Well I mean I-, mazing he listens to the indepth I. Mean it's Funny I. I met somebody recently in Australia. Who the the Australian radio heads! And the guy comes up to me and he goes I'm you? What do they call a common? Name they do jokey name, but of course I've forgotten the. And Right Emma and I'm I'm amazed and he said I. Find Your stuff really hard to do, and I'm like really. Just I'm always astonished that someone would listen because I. I never listened to my PA as A bit, it's all about the song its entirety and it's always serving the song. It's the whole thing I mean. That's why I think these things are unfair, because really when somebody's singling you out there, not because it's the collective sounds a lot the time. Yeah, so yeah, I'm always surprised when people at she go. Oh, yeah, that sound I'm not. Start Yeah I think people do. At number one, yeah, who do you think's number one? Fullerton Jasper Carrot. No okay, is it? Jimmy page. No is a couple of guests. What would he do? Would he go for Hendrix? Yes, yes, sorry. I should have gone straight in the Jimi Hendrix number one number two number two Duane Allman, okay. That's eccentric I would. Starts No disrespect to the mighty Norman number three bb king. Okay, it's Clapton in the top ten. Yeah, I think he is Prince. No doesn't place no. Prints was the motherfucker right him and Hendrix I think I mean when you watch footage of Prince? Play Guitar. It's extraordinary and you know that footage at the rock and Roll Hall of Flame Yes when the plane while my guitar gently weeks, and then he does the mic drop it drop. It saw Audra Dhani Harrison's face Gio Charleston. Son is like what the? extraordinaire people shed I I'd never seen it. People shed after he died and the for the first. The greatest and I think for me. I like him and Hendrix because prince had that that that funk and he could do that clean fun 'cause well. They play kiss on the radio this morning. It was just like only God even just the. War. You know just amazing. Yeah, he was extraordinary. Yeah, I want to ask you. Yes, therefore, we conclude one of my questions was. Why Mike is solo album. Specifically. That so many reasons. Taurus in a very successful band. Not to be a successful band where you are whatever you do, as a solo entity is going to be compared to some extremely good stuff that you've already done this unit. Yeah! And who needs that grief? Yeah, well, it's a good question and actually stopped me for years doing anything because I. Like you know it was like well I? Don't need anything else and I think. For me, you see there was always. I've always felt a bit of a whole. You know with all the success and all the fantastic creative within radiohead. There was always me. There was always something missing and I didn't know what it was me you. You don't realize and the moment I writing. It was the most compelling thing going into your sheds, and then coming up five hours later with something that. I thought. We have sounded beautiful. And, so you then get the where you'd have to demo and it becomes. I think it's a really good point on. It's an ally had listened dot nights of the soul on this like warm, my doing one. Why am I stepping out? And that's usually because I'm tied. been you know work on it for too long? It's not a rational thing. It's a completely intuitive thing. It's like a feeling sign. LISTEN IF I didn't do this Tony, Blair listen. How did I do listen own? Just just bleep out. Sorry if I If. I didn't do it I wouldn't be me and that's that's all I can say I'm completely pulled. I've started thinking about the second records I for me. The last week has been amazing because I've. I've kind of connected with where I think I WANNA go. I've had to double. Check myself a law I'm like. Is this right is? Why am I? Why did I not do this twenty years ago? Why am I doing it now? And I don't know an ice that thing you get back to. This kind of there is a mystery. There is a magic to music as well and maybe you know you get the calling. Sometimes you know. The the ancient Greeks used to see it as kind of calling in the muses, and put it in those kinds of terms, and you know the happens to different people at different stages in their life and familiar. This is happening now, and it's I'm constantly at my comfort zone, which is the best place to be? It makes it. You Know Nick Mason From Pink Floyd has this lovely expression. He's said to me, said well. Of course we could be feeling the peacocks. And he probably does have S. But it's you don't to answer your. QUESTION IN A. Way. I think if you are going to do something outside of radiate, you have to be absolutely sure. It's the right thing, and you feel under the power to what you know, there's a it just feels so right, so it's not an exercise in staking your independent. No I don't if you I've always been the upset. I've always hated the idea of ego well. I should do something because. I've got nothing to prove I haven't got competitive bone in my body I'm not like that I'm for years. It was radio heads, which was absorbed my whole creative. Part of me and it was my family and I was so happy I didn't have time for for anything else. And then this music comes along and it's Oh. Wow, this is like being pulled. Yeah, that's how it is Do you have a sort of unspoken contract with the rest of radiohead that you're just never going to refer to your seller. Is that the way it works like? is listen to each other's side projects and comment on the Moors easier if you just don't I think we listened to one of those projects, but no one really comments I. Always Hopefully Sale I. You know really like I think. Thomas, saying the last meetings at all, someone came up to him and said. Is. The Best Song that Thomas, ever written and Thomas I really surprised and I said well. It's fucking great song You know it's amazing. Radio it's not. We're not like this big support unit going. You got this else you've got. You've got this I. Love Your Work and you got this us so strong. This is your moment. No, it's not a tool like that and you know it's. It's. It's all like everybody's very nice. Have you had any though? Thankfully. That stuff going on I'm sure there's an listen. I'm an at one of the things I do is I had to let go of what I thought. The others would think of it. Yeah, because there was a part of me when I started the record. I puts my radiohead head on, and it's not appropriate for this record, and so there's only one track. I thought that banksters. Yes, the only one only one that was vaguely radio ad right and I had to get because this record is very much more. I mean if anything it like. There's a cosmic, but it's really for me. It's like lyrically. It's more comes from a kind of Gospel soul thing. That's why I drew my inspiration. It's about love it's big-hearted will record. And every time. I put my radiohead head on this. It would get out what you mentioning love about why you know. It's like and I knew that I had to let go of that because we just had to let go there, and that was quite hard to shake, and then you go back on tour with halfway through the directly until with abandon, so you come back with the radiohead head on, and it took four weeks to get rid of their to kind of. To get in the place where it was a safe space. To do you know what I mean because I wanted it to be a very direct and warm record, and very kind of open, hearted and I at the moment. I know that's not necessarily a very radiohead thing. Rate is a lot more oblique I think and it's sort of impressionist whereas I want to be very direct and colorful and like bang. An open heart was radiohead. Is You get the love, but it's not so you know it's comes from different beauty. Yes, if? But, but I think you said it before when you talked about Kubrick. It's that sort of yeah. It's a Kubrick thing. It's a Kubrick. Yeah it real. I'm trying to think of a director who you are well. Maybe it's the Nolan thing come on. I mean Nolan's done a lot. Were I'm the I'm? To radiohead is Cuba is Dr Strangelove and two thousand one and you Doodoo as Bychkov. Weight Continue. Hey welcome back podcasts Ed O'Brien there. There's a few links in the description of this podcast to bits and pieces. That at an I spoke about. What have we got for you? Linked to the Music Video Ed's excellent Song Brazil from his album earth link to a youtube playlist of bits and pieces from some of those hacked okay computer mini discs linked to a video of Ed. Earlier this year on Youtube teaching you how to play creep by radiohead. Only four chords. He reminds us a fun one to pick up if you're learning how to play guitar. is a link to not especially great quality copy of meeting. People is easy grant Gee's nineteen ninety-eight radiohead dog. That's on Youtube. That's probably one of those things which we'll get taken down at some stage, but anyway it's watchable. It's such a great doc. I would recommend if you're a radiohead fan and you haven't seen it. That you get hold of decent quality copy. Is Linked the only copy I could find of that early radiohead video that we were talking about. Stop whispering the one with the old diving suit and the pin cushion and Tom Crouching between some girders looking tortured. Sadly, it seems that most of those official early radiohead videos have been redacted from the Internet I couldn't even find. Bad quality copies of anyone can play guitar and things like that, but. there's that list of the one hundred greatest guitarists. By David Fricke, from two thousand ten. Also, there is a link to the Dan Hawkins Online Bass. Player site if you're a regular podcast than you will know that. Dan Hawkins. Offers a online based playing service? You can send him a track, and he will lay down a base part and send it back to you brilliantly and efficiently. I've used him. To provide base for lots of the jingles in this podcast before and today, it was the Star Trek Jingle, the Dan played bass over. I didn't of course. Right the Star Trek Music. What a great theme tune that is! Anyway. There's a link to Dan. Hawkins online based playing site. Should you like to add a bit of great old fashioned analog human base playing to your track? What else have? We got pretty much all the links? Oh No, there's a link to one of the things that is really cheered me up in the last few weeks. And that is a video of Robbie Williams. Playing a kind of Scarver, Shin of his song angels. On the horn section podcast. Alex Horne of taskmaster fame. has a fantastic putt that he does with his band the whole section. And if you haven't heard the podcast before, I very much recommended, it's great. They just well. It's a combination of Alex's. Bordering on obsessive enthusiasm with turning everything into a game, and the brilliant improvising and comedy songwriting skills of his band, one of whom plays with the Robbie Williams touring band, so they got roby to be a guest on one of their isolation specials. They recorded five I. think five episodes earlier on in the lockdown and I only just round listening to them. COUPLE WITH TIM key. Who's always great value? One with Max Rushton one with rose, Matt affair and yeah one with Robbie Williams. Who was really good value and just? committed. Magnificently to this rearranged version of angels at the end, and it was so good. And the video of them will playing it remotely on the zoom feeds is excellent as well. What else? In about six weeks time I think. My Book Ramble Book. Will finally be available in hardback physical form if you've already heard the audio book. I've put links in the description of the podcast obviously to all these things. Bought Just because you've heard, the audio book doesn't mean to say you can just ignore the hardback Nunu. It's been beautifully designed the physical thing. And it's got pictures and photographs and. Amazing illustrations from Helen Green and It's been laid out by geniuses at Harpercollins. Beautiful lovingly created object, you can order a signed copy. Right now by visiting the worst website Lincoln the description. It's There are a limited number of signed copy soda guarantee that they will be one available. They may have sold out. I'm just saying that's it may happen. I didn't sign on that many so made haste. Rosie. Come on head. Back. Okay, that's it for this week. Thank you very much to shameless. Murphy Mitchell for his production support on this episode. Thanks to Matt Lamont for his increasingly brilliant edit was buttery. Thanks to Ed O'Brien for his time. He's good humor, his friendship, his musical skills and just everything. Thanks cost for supporting this another great great podcasts. Why not check out the dizzying diversity voices represented on their website? Thanks to you most especially podcasts unison right to the end. You'll great and I appreciate it. And also did you know that? Well. I love you. Them. Women. By. Coke. With. Wounded Okay!

radiohead Tom Johnny Stanley Kubrick Mike Pablo honey Thomas Roy Ed O'Brien Tony Blair Ed Susan I Jonny Greenwood US America Ohio Oxford Buxton Thom Yorke Ed Facts
EP.109 - DAWN O'PORTER

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:11:24 hr | 1 year ago

EP.109 - DAWN O'PORTER

"I did one more gye podcast band now you up. That puck cost out and started listening. I I took my microphone. Found some human then. I recalled it all the noises while. Finally I want you to do. That's the hey how you doing podcasts. Adam Buxton here. I am walking down my favorite femme track. It's not even four in the afternoon this Saturday in mid November twenty nine thousand nine hundred and already ready it is well glow me and I guess in an hour so it'll be duck. Wow look there's a big puffball mushroom their woo. It's detached a friend of mine the other day who was visiting went for a walk and came back with one one of these big old puffball mushrooms. A few weeks back. This was this one that I'm looking at now. Is All monkey. Looks like kind of Zombie. Be Scotto but the one that my friend brought back was more pristine and firm in its riper youngest state and he was saying. Oh ooh look what. I've got a puffball mushroom. Do you know these are delicious. If you slice them up and fry them now. My friend mark is a respirator and a talented amateur chef. So I believe him but I definitely didn't encourage I'd just said wow that's interesting. I definitely didn't say let's do that. I WANNA eat some slices of fried puffball mushroom. I'm not going to rule out the possibility posssibility that it might be amazing but I suppose the reason I didn't leap at the opportunity was that I don't really like mushrooms to begin with. I'm quite a fussy eater. I'm trying to get better sir. Is I get older and I am trying lots of things that I would never have tried in my younger days but fried slices of puffball mushrooms is very very low down on the list still anyway look rosy mytalk friend is not as I speak by my side or even in visual contact because I think she is further down the track somewhere with my son. My eldest son frank who is seventeen. I think he took out for a walk before I left the house. So maybe we'll bump into them as I'm recording this intro but look let me tell you about this. This week's episode one hundred nine which features a rambling conversation with British television presenter journalist turned author Dornod Porter Quarter. Don't fax dawn currently aged forty worked in TV for a while presenting Sitta poppy social social issue based programs and documentaries for BBC Three Channel Four and sky in the UK before the publication of her first novel paper aeroplanes in twenty thirteen. That book was a fictional tale of an intense friendship between teenagers. Rene and flow loosely inspired inspired by Dawn Zone Childhood in Guernsey and the death of her mother from breast cancer. When she was quite young the the book was a critical and commercial success and a sequel entitled Goose was published the following year twenty fourteen since then dawn on his had two more standalone novels published the cows in two thousand sixteen and so lucky published earlier this year a funny and poignant story about about the deeper truths and intertwining lives of three superficially happy and successful women now the door in fact for your adorn was also one of the founders of the charity helped refugees? UK also known as choose love that we didn't talk pat conversation. There's a link in the description of this podcast where you can find out and support the charity if you wish. Dawn lives in Los Angeles with her two young children and her actor husband Chris o'dowd for whom she incorporated the go into her name when they married in two thousand twelve but I met up with dawn when she was in London in October of this year on various promotional duties around the publication seven of so lucky and we recorded the conversation in a room. A room at the London offices of a cost. Who Bring bring you this and many other? Great Great pod costs of course thanks to them for hosting. We kicked off with a shallow to chat of about selfie techniques and general digital vanity and that shifted to me asking Dorn about her mother. Hey Look who's here had a dog. You Yeah let you get a bonus walk now gordy had one you want to join. Find me for more plays okay. Good one Frankie Oh areas. He's wearing headphones listening to music. And he's grinning at Michi easily. 'cause he's thinking I'm going to be put on the spot. He's backing off because he doesn't want to improvise some great great chapel the podcast and or do you know. Okay see when we get back see. What are you listening listening to? Why which one black pink flags a good one more boy so proud come on then? Rose I post Pasta puddle jumper. That was anyway where was I. Oh yes I was asking dawn about her mother and By the way the conversation when we get to that pot contains spoilers. I'm trying to be better about spoilers. I'm aware that sometimes I I'm very casual because I personally don't care too much gotcha about spoilers but I'm trying to accommodate people who really do There are spoilers in the conversation for the film terms of endearment which came came out in one thousand nine hundred eighty three so that I would say very very respectful thirty six years is I mean. That's got to be pushing pushing the envelope for the spoiler embargo. Don't you think Death chat was not by any means all serious and don't told me about some of her thoughts for what to do with her other loved ones after they die especially her cat and her husband and by the way according to new york-based taxidermist Kate in Maroteaux. As far as I know it is illegal to taxidermy or mount a human being in the US. Well I'm sure it's possible. The end result does not seem worth the trouble. Human Skin discolors greatly off to the preservation process and stretches a lot more than animal skin. This would mean that the maker maker would have to be very skilled in creating an exact body replica and painting and touching up the skin. Tone this episode as well as containing leaning adult themes juvenile themes and trivial themes also contains very strong language multiple. Jeremy Hunt's in fact so watch apt back at the end for a small serving of Solo waffles. But right now here we go the job. Jeff Jeff the AW. Aw Racial. Is Everything about overhead lighting. These days pin spot in the C- yeah and it's not flattering. It's not flattering. And also. I wear a baseball cap a lot because of the desertion shen of my hands. My couch disappearance stupid cowardly hair is deserting. How far the thing is? I don't want to get criticized for everything these days. I don't know but the other day I was complaining about my head to Richard Richard Herring. I think on his podcast and then failed it. A few tweets off to that from angry man. These saying you don't have to cover up up. There's no reason for of course. There's no reason I've always been a baseball cap guide but the problem is with the peak. My face is always in shade with the Odeon in sports in the ceiling height so then I have to tip my head back. If someone's doing a Selfie or something yeah and then I look as if I'm doing some kind of looking down my nose no gallagher style al right like he thinks he's cool. Yeah like for cough when our way Matt for it. Just trying to find my light exactly if someone does a Selfie with you and you see it and you are looking absolutely monstrously grotesque. Do you take it again. You said come on. Let's do it again. Just let them go with it so last night and there was quite a cue which was very happy about when Q. You can't like start saying all let's take that again because you just think people at the back. He just wants to get that book signed. So there's an awful lot of photographs out there of me from last night. That are really displeasing using temporary care much. Yes you do well. I don't know if I do. I'm getting mature. I'm going to post a Mayan stick around right. Okay say I mean that. Is the thing about the selfie generation. Though isn't it is it. It's well you tell me is it. This is is like a compensation from a radio show about fifteen years ago but is it more than just an exercise in managing your own vanity. And just giving you a little little Philip Philip. Yeah the toll. I was trying to avoid using the word mental Jewish. That's a phrase familiar with. Philip is the phrase Oh like a Philip Pygmy of. Oh okay well I think it has definitely no doubt that if you're feeling low and he managed to take a nice self of yourself south that you won't get a thousand compliments underneath you'll post so I'm sure that there are times when people will possibly including myself have just posted a nice photo. Four sole purpose of receiving compliments. You See. I've never done that. I don't think like I've never posted it for me. It's always been a private thing. Yeah just yeah. It's just like if if I wake up and I look in the mirror and I just think oh Jeez S- cries twos. That is that Guy Monster Man and then I think okay. I'll just check because it might just be the bad mirror so just check on my phone. And I think that the IPHONE has source of slight fish-eye effect. Donate maybe a very slight one so that you don't really get a true representation of what you look like it's slightly thins you out okay. So if you go hi and scan around for the right light and then you just turn your head a little bit. Get the the right side that Bongo and then you look at that and you think oh no I'm okay okay okay with my day looking gorgeous grotesque. That's fine that's fine. Yeah I mean a pathetic. Pathetic behavior has now been entirely normalized and exists under the guise of some sort. aww Yeah let's all share it's fine it's cool but self he's off fundamentally pathetic pathetic behavior but good big part of human behavior favors always been vanity. Hasn't it it's always been there we've always cared enormously and now we've got this way of self affirming every day but most of the time it's like you said find the right angle okay. When the reality isn't much to do thing on my live show where people would see everything everything that was on my desktop? Wow the folders and everything and so. It came out of a time when I was doing a show called bug and I plugged in my laptop and I forgot got that I had things on my desktop. That didn't want people to see. I mean it was fine wasn't too embarrassing once I did genuinely though call up a browser and there was US some softcore pornography donate. Gosh I it was fairly tame feeling of you though which is actually. Did you get a group now. I think people thought it was deliberate right. People thought that I deliberately put it and I thought Oh yeah of course. I can do jokes about that. So I'd have all these folders with different stupid names in them and you know like failed projects Lists of grads and things. I'm ashamed of you know for January this year and things like that and one of them was sell fees and so I would take. They can use Selfie for each show and they would be flattering selfie and then another fall that they would be what I actually look like pictures and I'd take those from a very low angle looking looking down that classic angle. Yeah do you ever take those like you look most unflattering when you can possibly take to counterbalance buttering once. I try not take them however the other day I didn't realize that I'd kind of opened facetime on my computer while I was writing and I go see my writing face and it was horrifying. I'm to realize that my my Chin juts back into my neck like giving me multiple Chins. My eyes go squinting always slightly like my headed. Copped and I was that is a God that just flashed open. I didn't know that that's what I looked like when I'm concentrating so that was very upsetting a little bit in the book in Your New Book where one out of the mums takes a facetime call accidentally yes and gets that shock and I very much related to that time when someone says I'll call you later and then they facetime you like what the hell are you doing you have to. That's a plan that we should have made together. That should have been something as a collective pair is going to have this cool. Should have been able to both agree from both sides of facetime call is acceptable because it really is rarely as face time with like older people ever no. I try not to facetime ever with anyone. Well if I facetime with my elderly Auntie I get the top right corner of her forehead for the entire. If I facetime with my dad I get like like from below up his nose chins bid scenario. I'm just it's just an around is also the only people I like facetime ing with my kids. You know the comedian row Sheen Connotation yes yes she loves it. Love said people facetime Hershey. Yeah sure she'll take facetime cold now. Hey absolutely not it's horrible. I didn't mind if I've had time to apply my strong. I and I've got big hair. Then I'm like bring it on. But no just he kind of average cold caller on facetime can do on. I'm just not interesting. It's it's terrifying and also sometimes you do what people want to do like facetime calls. That's the worst. Yes what's wrong with an email. It'll take off the time time you get the time to compose your thoughts. Succinctly say everything you need to say in one email that would take an hour like if you do a conference call. That's even worse us and no one knows talking and the first bit were all seven. People have to comment on the weather about where they are. I can't do it. It's so boring. If I've got the the option I will always be the person that says focal. I'll say it right at the beginning. It'll say Adam Buxton has joined the call and then it'd be hi. Hi everyone and that'll be the conference call. When I'm in that kind of situation I compensate and become leading basically just hands feel like I need to do stand up? Just can't stop trying to be funny because I find it so awkward and then there's always the situation because it's so walked I would say pardon and then you kind of have to repeat the funny thing that you tried to say and I guess the end of this causing why. Why can't I be more like Adam Buxton? Why can't I just stand back? Listen let them talk me Kasur saying yes can't do it can't shut up. I'm going to inherit show challenge to shut up. Have you always been like that. Yeah I've always been craving to be the center of attention in whatever room. I would say that the older I've got that's become less so in the fact that I still really enjoy being the center intervention. But I don't need to be at every walk into Saddam I'm going to go into Anthony Clare and the psychiatrist share mode. Do you have have therapy. I don't and I probably should. I was just wondering if a therapist ever offered an opinion on why you need to be the center of attention I think incomparably pretty textbook. I lost my mom when I was quite young. And how old a couple of days before ten seven on mate. Yeah Pretty Young. Yeah Yeah and I think before that I was definitely you know she'd been ill for longtime fool that I'd say I as a kid was desperate spreads to be loved noticed. Don't think it's any coincidence. I went into trying to be in the public eye so I think if a therapist which to listen to me they would say yes. You Go. Who is terrified of being abandoned and just went out there in the world to just be left Oft Pretty Textbook? How long was your mother? Ill My memory kind of is different to what the reality is so she would have had breast cancer. Probably when I was around three or four and had said to me was okay for five years and then it came back and she was just everywhere so I'd say for for that last year or two. She was in an strokes. We grow up and guns. They should have to go to Southampton for treatment and so she would have been away quite allot and upstairs in bed quite a lot. I'm a bit blurry on the exact timeline of all of that but I thought it was a good year or two. And how much were you aware of what was going on. It was very weird because I didn't know that she was really ill dying but you know she was lying upstairs in bed with a turban on and that's one of my main memories of her cultural appropriation. Sorry she was pulled and she. It was weird. Because I don't know if this is a consequence of the chemotherapy. I need to find this out. My sister and I used to pay off. Her skin was sunburnt and it was all peeling off and we used to just love it. We stood to pay off and flake off her skin. Well yeah those were the younger people. What remember those days but in the old days that's some holidays roll about right? Yeah go on some holiday for a week or two year really burn and then you have peeling fun when you get back. Yes but it's just the way that she was kind of lying buying in bed and obviously they're just wondering now. Was that actually a consequence at the moment. I'm not sure but also Sundays and loved sunbathing so it could have been that as well so so it was a weird childhood because at that point of never lived with my dad I love my dad. Daily lives up in Scotland. They got divorced when I was around one when my mom left and moved down to go and Z.. With my sister night to the weather rest of her family was so the time that she died. We all lived with my grandparents so it was odd because while my mother was very ill we kind of had my grandparents who were very attentive. We kind of had all the attention that we need to. We will kind of overcompensated in a weird kind of way and then after she died carried on living with my grandparents until I was about ten for we moved in with our aunt and uncle. I mean it's just it's so weird. Isn't it back. I've got kids now. It's like teela girls came through that. Ah I mean that was my worst nightmare. That's sort of age. If there had been a film about your life it would have been on a rainy Sunday afternoon and I would not have watched it the idea. It was too depressing of a child losing their parents in that way. Yeah I mean it's so sad sad all the time no I was thinking I was really happy kid. I think it play lay down in full of I was accord. Was I sat. My sister's two years older than me and definitely hit her very differently because she had that two years of maturity everything. You'd feel everything a lot more. But I remember my overriding feeling was it's GonNa make enough to make everyone happy all the others so sad convention. It will do something funny. Just do that. I remember feeling like that. Just thinking like no no no no conquer. They can't do that concave there and I know six and seven year olds now incredibly emotionally intelligent so I look at them and I think I knew exactly what was going on. must've known exactly what was going on. But I just kind of banked it. I didn't let it go deep water. My sister who'd be quite opening show had ever station and cry a lot and I'd say that I was like hugely in denial as a seven year old which is very weird but I think that was kind of maybe what my family did. I mean not everyone can be touchy feely in those moments moments. You know what I'm saying. It's great to talk about your feelings and for my parent's generation it wasn't necessarily helpful. The prevailing wisdom at that time was that actually it does more harm than good to constantly. Rake over your feelings. A I still have a bit of a hangover of that idea from my dad. I mean I'm very happy to talk about anything I do. Think it's helpful and on the whole I'm with the modern way of looking at things but there are times when I think actually you don't need to talk about absolutely everything all the time and that's a hard one especially when you're in that situation did you have see terms vindamme and I haven't no. I didn't know maybe you shouldn't see it. You know what it's about. Well it's about lots of things but one of the characters is played by Debra winger and she has an affair she called slightly boring husband who I think is called flap. She's a strange a man. Could maybe better better for a man and a woman I don't know but he's called flap and she gets gets cancer. Spoiler alert spoiler now. I'm heffer that's Fine Air K.. She dies okay. It's very heartbreaking. And she has these children that she loves and they're just little but the scene for a long time so I may be getting bit to this but I was struck when I saw it must be about twenty years ago. Something longer that the final scene her children with her she kind of shoes them out of the room and I always thought God harsh Well how old are the kids. Little likes seven and fourteen cumbersome. It's it's such a weird thing I don't know what the answers they're like. We didn't go to the funeral. That was kind of family decided that that was going to be the thing and I actually. It's always been question in my head. Was that the right decision or not. And even though there's a part of me as a grownup with a mature attitude death and someone who isn't upset about my mom dying anymore. I kind of think I'm just intrigued but I think kind of glad I wasn't there And I think you can when something traumatic is having to a kid you can spare them some of the a heavy pods. It's heavy enough and you can spare them some of the visuals and those memories. That would just be locked in forever very notes. It's each family to their own and do in that situation. But you can't ask a seven year old. Do you want to go to mum's funeral or not. Do you want to watch him. I'm Diana I've heard described to be the moment that she passed asked when she was sitting there with her family. I think that's enough for me. I don't know if I need to be there as a seven-year-old funeral is weird. It's just oh God I mean and and also you're asking. GROWNUPS would devastate to to make decisions in time when the heads completely up their arses like. It's so deeply complex. Would you do if you're in that situation situation. I don't know I mean obviously I think people ask me all the time. How does the fact the died affect your mothering? It and the orange juice I rarely think about it. My auntie stepped in as my mom when I was very close. I my sister like I feel like I have endless females poor. She died so young that I don't I'm sad. She's gone inside. I didn't have that but I didn't miss her. But what it has done to me. As it's it's given me a heightened failing at the fact that I could die on my children and sometimes you know when I've got the fare from Hungary for which is most of the time I am. I kind of look at my kids and I'm going to go to hope I never do this to you. I hope that never happens. And I go through the whole scenario in my head into play out and I think I've made them a video. As soon the find out that I was ill I would start filming so they had this video as reference for the whole life them. Would that be weird. And then you think what was the last thing that I want to say to them. Be What I write them letters. You don't know you can't plan it's something you can never say what I would do if I was dying. I mean it's none of us know anything you know at the moment. I'm going to the situation with my Siamese Cat Lulu where she's sixteen. I've had to have my entire adult life. I think when she died. I'm going to get her stuffed because I can't live without her. I know how I'm GonNa feel there. There might be when she died and I. I'm presented with her dead body. I might think I can't do that. That's too twisted and Doug you just don't know I think you can't plan for Oh death and how you react and how what you will say and how you'll be because you could think right right these beautiful words and I'm going to say to my kid one of my death but if that moment arises truth is opponent floods it is not be out to get away down. You just gotta you'll just be wasted on morphine. Did you waste on Morphine Margaritas. Hopefully my dad was out of it on. Yeah all sorts of things. That's the thing is I think you often. I think always but much less dramatic doc. It's just sit. Aye they zone out either because of the pills or just that's your body is just in the process of shutting shutting down if so you'll often not dealing with someone who's either completely lucid or particularly articulate than not sort of saying now yes speech. Exactly say some pretty profound you're GONNA remember for the rest of your life. The losing someone as an adult amazing someone as a kid saint-irenee entirely different and I had this odd situation when I was a teenager and in my twenties when if any of my friends mums died they would call me as if I a new they were going through and I have no idea what you're going to like my frustration has that I barely knew her and that was unfair. But I didn't understand the later tonight that you lose a parent Jesus when this person has been part of your whole life like that to me is just not come with other members of my family. You know that is is. I don't know how that feels. That is devastating. I kind of feel awkward. It's such a weird thing to say but like maybe I was kind of lucky. See in a weird kind of way that I didn't have to experience that kind of devastation. I know what you mean. Do you genuinely think you might stuff the cat. His thing she siamese so she's quite beautiful and my relationship with her is is very intense very intense relationship with this animal. Like I said of sixteen years. She's been my tire at life. I've traveled the world with her. Take game for Christmas. She's literally been backed by my side. Wherever I've gone I had to find a man who is willing to accept the cat because she's quite overwhelming and I honestly cannot imagine my life without her? Despite the fact that she pisses on my pillow's so I also have a dog who potato who is the most delicious person imaginable Apple Potato because his Doriot lies just devastate me the something about Lulu and her self righteousness and the way that she. She kind of judges us all where I think she should be in her most upright pose sitting by the fireplace for the rest of my life yes in a regal haughty posture. Yes And I think because hard personality being hard with suit her I referred potatoes my memory reform dog because he just flops. into whatever position you'll earn his body. Just somehow dislike. You know fits your body. He couldn't be hard but I think blue could work and I think I get some white put in her and ideally get her made to the same weight that she was when she was alive. I think we could all have have a sense of humor about that and that we could potentially not be devastated by it every time he walks into the living room Chris Onboard and I think it sorta wanted to do yes she dies in a pleasant way is if it's roadkill then interested some people stuff people harden i. I mean there are taxidermied people on there but you can do it right kind of relate. Sure why not why could you texted Demi in animal to know the person I mean. It's a funny subject. Chris is determined that when he dies he wants to be shot into space so but when he really feels like it's going to be his actual full form shot into space. I the birthday. I did a little research. This gift to him would be like would pay part of the price and get some sort of promise from Nassar. I think so. I found this company. I realized that. Actually it's possible what you can do is you can have some of your ashes shot into space an aluminium capsule and so so I was talking to this companies associated. Say Do this I have I work in this K- Working Spicer had this hilarious conversation on the phone. Quite old woman and I was saying right. So is it possible to get the aluminium capsule that I could get in grave to give to my husband as a gift and she was like yes. And when's the funeral was like no no no no no no no. He's not dead. I want to give it to him as fortieth birthday as a promise that she some. But I'm so when when she couldn't I was having to say out loud by this. This point like six people who work in the office all hysterics and I was like no. He's not dead. I want to give it to him as a gift for his fortieth birthday is the promise that are sheet him into space when he dies. This woman was to start a dinner and that was when I was. Let's switch to e mail I need to display this T- probably realising that it was just so complex to do this aborted that idea and then afterwards it's when I actually gave Chris His will present his party. I kind of thought that joke could Died couldn't if I just hand in this Aluminium Council saying I'm GonNa Xiyun the space when you die but he's disappointed. I don't think that Joe could have died. I made it sky when I told his mom she was. Just just. Don't get it. I just I just got it okay. Okay I'm GonNa just GonNa let anyway. He's very disappointed that he can't be fully show out there so his we're dead body displays around space forever. I mean that's a good idea. Yes well Elon. Musk shorter car into space. There's a car floating around Elon. Musk put up there. And there's a dummy at the wheel and there was a theory going round that it was actually David Bowie's body Eh. Stop this yeah and that the car stereo. I think I'm right. The Cost Stereo is playing space on all the time even though in space you can't hear it because there's no atmosphere and so people were imagining that somehow Bowie lowy. He got in touch with Elon. Musk Anderson Steve's in the car and shares out into space would you and musk being a fan had said yeah sure all sorts of that is fantastic. That's true but the car is true. The car is floating around here. There is a some worries me about that so when I was researching she to my husband into space. The thing about the capsules is that you get sucked back in by the Earth's atmosphere and something that's more than gets burnt opposites coming back in but what if that car get sucked back in or if we did start shooting bodies in space and dead bodies just started laughing and your burn up through. The atmosphere is equally equally horrific. Really little shooting style. Maybe little meteorology knows how Christie's bulls. Oh Christmas areas halfway through the podcast. I think it's going really the conversations blowing it would between Akis his bag to see you so cab street. It's like a science tallking. I'm interested in what what you said this phone chat and Digest. It's like this meeting Stephen King. Now look I read your wikipedia page exit all true to you maintain it I. Don't you've done a lot of stuff I have off. Yes you driven. I am driven. Yes you'd like to be driven. You went to to Liverpool Institute for the Performing Arts. I did that's the school that macro setup it is yes he gave me my degree. Yes I remember. I've never really. I thought he was particularly attractive. Meeting Person I was overwhelmed. By his hotness. Yeah if I remember rightly he was wearing a white suit with countries assembles and he gave us a lot degrees. And I thought that was pretty. Damn cool I thought you can pummel your money into something that actually show up and do that every year plan. That was an amazing school. I mean when I went. Let's do acting quickly realized I didn't want to be an actress so there was a bit disappointing but I made friends for life could assess the safe gang poplars pills else scanned on a safer headache pills. Yes lots of eight bells and we just kind of. I just looked at by. Oh I think most people back on the university or college is a party. The and very rarely is that degree that you're getting to relevant life. I just had such a good time there but yeah in my third year as I really don't want to be an actress. Thank God because I always. I think you've been married to an actor. If I was an actress to just be it would be so hard yes No competitive just the demands of the job and how much it takes you away. I used to do TV. Be Do those kind of twelve hour filming days and luckily I've kind of settled word is rightful time which it's so great for a family because Chris does acting and if he needs to move around as long as I got my laptop I can be anywhere sometimes. Thank God if I was doing that on screen job still with two young kids it would just be so difficult. They wonder people break up. When that's what you're dealing with it's really hard so yeah in my in my third year as I don't want to do this I want to do new TV presenting instead of doing a final play I said can I make a TV show servants? And I made a TV show. And then I knew that was what I want to say. What was the TV show? You made them so the TV show made at school is called a matter of taste and it was kind of a studio basically huge red mouth. That was so far I think can it was just a good idea. What ton is the so I I think so? Look the great thing about drum school is that you had. The there was a whole design designers. You could do a set. You sound sound engineer. is He doing lighting people. And so the lighting such pretty dog but my friend Ed Deny wrote and hosted this half an hour long TV. TV show and it was just really fun. Was it sort of metter or was it a genuine attempt to the magazine show. It was a genuine attempt at during a magazine show and we did things like. I can't remember what us who are celebrity in fuels. That's terrible win some night. Local Merseyside's celebrity that we had and then I did feature where we interviewed a woman who was plus she and unlike was in love with fluffy toys. That was quite fun and we all just did it we did. It was a time when Zoe ball. Jamie Theakston show that it was a the The priory the priory so that was kind of it. was that kind of vibe and it was just so fun and it felt really different and I I think with acting I think my problem with that thing and I remember doing this. I remember saying when I was in one of the plays. I just remember thinking. Just want to rewrite this line because it's not very didn't like being told what to say and suddenly we made this TV show writing it and doing it as at this is it. This is what we wanted to do and suddenly felt very excited again and I wish I realized that in the first yeah because I felt I spend the first. He is drama school spin. Like I just don't care I just don't want to do it. Don't want to act which is so weird because it spent my entire teenagers ages thinking. That was what I wanted to do. The would think about it. I wanted to show off wants to these things but I just felt really uncomfortable and acting but really shine and like I was really just didn't notice soon as I thought Ryan GonNa do. May then I really what out. So it was great and then down to London after that and was like a run for princess productions and books audiences for the Ruby wax daytime. TV show and did all kind of fun behind the scenes TV jobs. Yeah I like the idea of someone. Like Laurence Olivier Meryl Streep having an epiphany at drama school going. Actually the thing I would most like to do. TUCK Timothy out first book audiences for Rabi Wax Instead Skinner plan. That was my first job. So another thing when your drums. Your third year A matter taste of my first projects and then in the second half of with the year. You've got a big play like present yourself and I said I just really don't want to do it so instead can I go down to London Work Placement at TV possession company instead and they kind of said. Yes I think by this point they were just like just get the fuck out of here. You're moaning and unhappy will the time. And they agree to mark me on it which was really great them and so oh. I can't remember what my context was but managed to get work experience on Dylan's unplanned in the avalon office and I was so take my love Frank. Skinner absolutely do him David Potato as well but at the time I was like very excited to work with frank now like the both awesome obviously but it was so exciting I was up on Ganzi then I went to Liverpool this kind of London TV production vibe. Was this supposed to be. This is so brilliant brilliant. I couldn't get enough of it and as I hope that kind of led onto other TV jobs and can move down to London after I graduated and and really I did my hat to do as part of my cost the showcase at the end of your drums go to three monologues on stage at the criterion theatre criterion in the west end notes of agents. Come and I got some agent attention and kind of went and had those meetings in it that was you know a really. Don't want to do this. And it was really great leaving drama school with no doubt so I could never went from addition evidence. Didn't WanNa do it done end of conversation say I'm porter and I'm going to form piece east camera about local fun run. No no no. I didn't do it. I still find that so weird because like I said it was all ever wanted to stay and then it just kept getting. I'm good like wasn't long before wasn't doing Westbridge. Got Paid to be a runner than started putting audiences Freebie and then one of the producers that worked with said that he had a spot on the show balls tale. Were they need someone who's willing to do. Terrible things on come on camera and that was my first like Ferrari until being TV and I did this terrible sketch. which was I? Don't know if ballade do it now so then remind people of balls of steel still a prank show and there was a kind of cost of us where we all have different characters. It was the show that thing that made it famous was. When do you remember when Tom Cruise is on record and scores it in the face and it was just a microphone? Scores it water. And and it just was just felt flatten. Your jerk your dirk and it was a terrible thing to do to someone more at the movie premiere but I kind of got the show in the headlines but this is the the thing is like the way to be atop flight. PRANKSTER is to be a fucking count. Yes an absolute. It's really horrible. There was one of the pranks in still where this guy would like. Jump out from behind a wall and just jump on a person's back and write them like a you could the physical damage. You could actually do to some of the whole thing. It was just absolutely horrendous. Is just being mean that whole Tom Cruise thing when that happened like I feel so full of shame doing this. Show Tom I mean in a way it's got an age to it. Now because people who are suspicious of his activities activities with the scientologists might think fucking whatever birds everyone. I know who knows him. which is one person to think? He's amazing he's really not I. You just hear the loveliest things about him all the time. I really hope I would like to believe he's Nice. I really hope Tom. If you're listening. I hope you haven't intimidated. People role for the Church of Scientology and disregarded naughty behavior further. Glorification of L Ron Hubbard Anyway. Um I'm head. That message gets Tim loud and clear them. You never know wow. That's funny that you did all that stuff though and I've also terrible but yes funny no look we all did terrible stuff. Well maybe not all of us but I certainly did a lot of stuff. I am not best pleased with. But how do you deal with all that. I mean you get into the odds scrape right on social media. Yes I do occasionally. It's not too bad. I generally unless it's a cause I really believe in. I'm not. Don't try to get into arguments really. I've got a bit of Shit for totally believing that Michael Jackson is a massive pedophile. And then you get hit sports having a gay yeah. Just don't care that's argument. I'm going to get into and that stuff stuff like going to talk about. Motherhood and this is something that's really fair and this is when you kind of you. Instant reaction is to argue. And actually then you've got to take a step back and understand with this person saying so. I wrote an article for the Sunday Times last week about raising toddlers and how it's really hard work and you know totally has a meltdown and you're trying to get through a day. It's it's exhausting. Anyone who's parent knows that so write this article and then you get a few comments from people who say things like. Oh yeah pull you living in Hollywood with a movie star husband you can afford childcare whenever you want and Blah Blah Blah. Try throwing too hard jobs into the mix. I think I wrote that and my kids being in an overcrowded crowded school my instant reaction was like say and then I just stepped back and was like no. You're right that's bullshit. I'm really sorry that you're experiencing that it must be really frustrating when someone like me moans About parenthood totally totally get it and sometimes you have to just think about where that thing is coming from very often. When someone's having a go at you something you've said it? Is that feeling their opinion that situation if somebody just comes out with pure rage some tried to just I you know I wrote a reply and lifted immediately because if I write that to her she's GonNa get loaded ship from my father. Successful always happens. She's always having really hard time. And so I'm sorry you it's annoying that this article that was supposed to be kind of entertaining and away upset. Somebody and I got a few of those comments but then you get other times. Got A situation a few few months ago where someone wants me on instagram. And I'm I'm kind of just up at night unconscious sleep and someone writes me something like you're born your husband's overtures at the Oscars I sweat and I just replied and your count fights me like say my my husband's okay. Nine boy anyway. I had no idea and I honestly genuine because this never happened for thought that anyone the Daily Mail that's through the comments on my inscribed feet fade and they printed it. The next day I had this company is linked to their front page. Maybe maybe and I was. I've got to be honest. I wasn't that that wasn't something that made me feelgood that that person got the Continent Daily Mail and that she got load of Shit for it was quite funny to respond the largest. She was really blatantly rude anyway. I was kind the next day. Oh God I mean that's just really not very nice her comment underneath so you're at the Oscars and you were there before the the ceremony started running around taking funny selfish and stuff drunkenly as the this is from a website called evoke. Okay so they describe you running around tweeting drunkenly and the comment was honestly. Your husband is gross in Europe Ball. That's that's right to which you replied in all caps your account and the person came back and said it's not okay to say that what what I said was just my opinion and if you want to be in the public eye learn to take it or get reported that's bullshit. That is both fasting. Like I didn't want him to get leadership and to have a naming Meta whatever but fuck you for saying that because it doesn't matter about that you just write something right as your husband's gross in your bowl. You are being an outright count. There's no compensation to have about that being mean. Yeah it's that thing of people Saying well no if you choose to be in the public eye then fuck you. You've lost all your rights as a human being. That's a terrible way to think about now especially because everyone's in the public Nikai like everyone's got thousands of followers on instagram or twitter. And you never heard of them not everyone can do. So if we all put ourselves in the position to be like Kind of abused in that way. It's I got no time for that. I tried except for. I try to be sympathetic towards like opinions on actual matters upset. More people coming coming through. You don't call. She can focus off that. I put that on instagram. So I am inviting opinion. Yeah it's your but the but the way that people cast so much about what other people do where people just say fucking angry about other people doing. I don't know what that is. She is she feel like that about anything. Well it's a mean I would guess that it's a feeling of powerlessness if you see. People people parading their lives and Flaunting their good fortune online or living in a way that you find troubling somehow award challenging somehow then a natural instinct not the only one but a natural instinct is just to lash out and just to go. No don't do that. What are you doing and to express that in in a variety of ways? But that's what social media. Encourages is just those instincts to come matt in one form or another and then there forever hateful is it really get often actually saying all of that. Mine is generally really nice and friendly. I have a really fun time on instagram. The laws any engineering game was big for now eh to put up my instagram man. People driven a deep picky Bruin picky but again uh Have you seen the documentary about fifty and Westwood. No icon activists been really looking forward to seeing that. I'M GONNA use the phrase hard recommend recommend. Okay great I would hard recommend creativity in Westwood punk icon activist directed by Lorna Tucker herself An ex model and it came out last year two thousand eighteen but it was on TV the other day. Holy Shit is what did you see the the bras. Ross documentary. Oh yes I did. It was a dream. Yeah it was very oh God I can't just so so fantastic stacks very happy time and also with that bras documentary. You didn't feel unclean afterwards. Because it had a happy ending they were on board. You got the feeling that they didn't disown. The whole thing gave their career a boost as far as I'm west so it was victimless. This joy. Yeah I think it's the fact that they kind of came together at the end and you saw some sense of hope for them was well pulled together. I wonder if we didn't get that. It would be quite complicated to be. We left with it. I was watching it. I was uncomfortable. I was thinking do they. Are they in on this. Or what's going on here. I mean no one was feeding him. Those lines knew it was absolutely magical. Great well this one I would say maybe it caught me at the right moment. We had a couple of glasses of wine me me and my wife when we were watching it but okay some pretty good stuff in the however. She has disowned it. And she's not happy with it at all but she wasn't happy with going going in right. This is the dame of British fashion twice crowned like Fashion Oscar. Yeah yeah at the awards right. I don't know what I'm talking. You might not like stuff. But you can't argue with the fact that she is a legendary in pivotal figure in British fashion coach App sedately lately and she's good value. Holy Shits right at the beginning of this documentary. She set going. Oh God I WanNa talk about all that old stuff anymore. So barring arming the sex pistols. No I'm not going to talk about now. Now I'm not the only way she's going to work is if you just leave me and I'll just talk talk about things and maybe some of them will be useful but I'm not going to just talk about. The stuff is to barring so already often running. Yeah the whole thing is really well put together. I can't wait. I needed something to watch. And she's got her third husband I think is is this guy called. Andreas Crime Taller. Artistic Director and collaborator. He's so passionate about things he's so passionate you just have to do. I says she. She says at one point but the people around her like the Alexander McQueen documentary was similarly enjoyable some of the characters that inhabited that world and this guy and crawl. And you know like sometimes One of the kind of four or five voices that I do. When I'm writing eating out youtube COMERC- be kind of like this and this fashion voice like this guy that I know? He does fashion photography and stuff. I took but I now. I know that there's a lot of people who talk like that. And this guy. Andreas his married to Vivienne Westwood in his like this. And there's a great scene where he's like Vivienne Westwood into campaigning about the environment. So she's spending a lot of time doing that unless time concentrating concentrating on her label and so address. Her husband and collaborator has to pick up the slack. Very stressed out. And so he's talking to tears. Assistant who is called excellently. Pep Pay Laura fees. Come on the F. I c. e. that's fantastic alertness orifice and poro peppers getting shouted at because. Evidently there's been some show has been the models and they didn't have have socks. Andreas everything I ask not done. They have no socks on nickel. NOSSA I don't know why a lot of people don't go downstairs and get some socks from the downstairs one flight of stairs down then on the socks. Why don't you go down? Don't get the song and at one point peppy who you know they're being filmed they're happy being filmed having this little set to peppy scratches his face. He's little awkward awkward and Andres gets right in his face and makes this like aggressive gesture of like scratching his face and he goes winding winder. You go down. He's just thick useless a written down exactly what he said. You just need to go downstairs. Stashing the shopping talks. I do myself next. Time sounds fantastic. He's amazing can do a whole documentary on. Just Andreas. But I really strongly. I can't that's going to be the first year recommend. Yeah it's good man. It's really nicely. Done documentary have you got a A favorite dot that springs to mind. Oh that's a nice question but when we were just talking about I mean I loved the Bruce One. The documentary is my favorite one. That's happened in six months. I thought that was good because I just love it. When you just go on such a journey you know it was just so perfect? I loved loved the Nina Simone Documentary. Yes I happened. Miss Simone is was what happens. I want an insight into a life. If that was I thought that was beautifully beautifully done. I'm always even the documentary that also have great music. That's always wonderful. But I tell you what I've been watching a lot lately. That a series of documentaries the CNN did about the different decades. Oh yeah that's Fab. I love theft here. See I live in America. How so I've been watching all those for the second time? Love Love Love the vintage decades and up to the sixties seventies and eighties specifically concha. Enough everything about them so I think that's really lovely documentary series. Love War love racism just such an interesting time us realize how much shaped US culturally. We're still referring back to all of it and I just find really particularly the eighties which I'm really enjoying doing reading button. Writing musical that senator really yes. I'm rising musical US still can walk back catalogue. which is pants down? The best thing in the wealth off that I've ever done and so Cetinje have been going back there a lot. Recently I enjoy reading about the People Power and how people took to the streets and may change in the eighties and looking at what's happening now and how is still like realizing about really effective way to make change and looking at where women were at in the eighties in the workplace thinking that they were the ones who had cracked equality in most. Mr Live CD still fighting. That battle now is just extraordinary in so many of the same arguments happening. Thanks still. It's just interesting to look backward time where they thought that it was happening in in many ways. I think that's the thing about the that we thought we I say we. I was just a teenager but there was a sense that like all the big problems had been solved and now it was like what are we going to do with freedom and now money. It's going to be great. I mean on the one hand. The big problems will be solved on the other hand. There was a good chance we were GONNA get annihilated by you and who so it was a very odd. It was such a decade. I mean I same I was. I was literally my budgeting stock. Aitken Waterman with you know mother mother dying upstairs just kind of made. It was incredibly confusing bizarre decade. But then I was aware of the rest of the world living on Ganzi. Kind of heard about that Margaret Thatcher. I didn't know anything about politics. Ninety as quite blissful in a weird kind of way when thinking about the rest of the world so looking back on just like God that was going on I was the Wifi on Godsey back then not so much surely slow so in the time we have left. I want you to tell me why writing is the best this job in the world. Not What I believe is the truth that it's the shittiest job in the world and it's fucking torture and instead you are. Just churning out books. This left right and center. I want to know your writing routines and you'll secrets and your tips right. I'm just going to go about it. So it is the worst job in the world and sometimes if my wife committed myself to a lifetime of homework it feels like homework used to fill at school. However I'm complete control of my time which is what I love about it and since having children? It's maybe really focused and I do a solid nine to five Monday to Friday. Drop the kids off. Get to my desk. boggles nine. Don't look up headphones in. Listen to sounds of the ocean. Shen really loudly to block out everybody else. And just right like a motherfucker and celebrate quantify. When if it's my day to pick up the kids are going to pick them up? And because I'm so focused in that time now I kinda get the job done. It took me three months right so lucky. It used to be like a year just always at the computer but generally yeah and is that long or short get three paragraphs then okay so yeah but it's my now I kind of don't do TV anymore and like cleared when it's all. I do a lot more productive but I think is key trying to right when you've got other shit going on is hard and it's taken me to my second kid to get my head in gear right a mom now and I've got to get this done the first you know when I had my first kid and I write the cows there was a mess. I just didn't know what I was doing. It was just all over. The place and Nassar had Valentine. I'm like I do my nine to five and the children two and four. I know it's so much work. It's so much what we say you know that you finish day's work and then you go home and do the second shift just around the clock. Okay job but I love it and I married a man who's incredibly hands on and when we're home he's I promise you and it's a wonderful thing and I don't think I could do it without Edmund just some strong Irish stock. His mother and his sisters wouldn't allow him to be another way. So that makes it easier. Obviously having that shared load and yeah I just get the job done and it's taken me. I'm forty now and I've written books since I was twenty five and it's taken me all that time to get this discipline and also I might. The cows did really well and I want to maintain that I really enjoy that feeling of the all that work I put in gets received. Well that is great motivation to kind of keep working to that standard and I think when I sit down on a blank page in front of me I think how can I make this page the most riveting funny or whatever it is that I can do so that person wanted to turn on to the next page and I think about my readers on every single page and that's exciting and I don't necessarily plot the whole novel because for me. That's not how I live my life and I find if I've locked myself into a format or a plot and board from the second I sit down so a lot of the time by the end of the day. I didn't know that was going to happen. And that's how I keep myself excited. And what about just basic. Things like dealing with distractions and answering emails and having to just do something. That isn't part of the routine. That's really hard and my addiction to social media is definitely a problem and something that I have to just constantly backwards right sentence. Check twitter. Write two sentences his check instagram. That's my big battle. Thrill and I have no answer for it and one day I was interviewed records. I've heard he got into his mobile phone completely and email and I don't know if I'd ever go that far but I think there's something in the value and I've done this before when I wrote a book called Goose. I had an assistant at the time and I got her to look me out of tune. Instagram for five weeks and got the book written in five weeks. And so I think in future if I'm up against it then that's thing you gotta give give your password someone else and have them lock me out because contrast it otherwise. I love instagram because I know currently on a book tour because that kind of immediate relationship that I have with my readers is how I think my book will hopefully be success. It's invaluable when you're promoting your work so I'm kind of addicted addicted to it with that knowledge at the base of it. I'm so grateful that exists. I've been in a cave for three months listening to sounds at the ocean. How did you figure route sounds of the ocean? Was the kid sleep to it. Every night I gave birth to Valentine well all it was asleep in the next room with Sandy Ocean turned up and he didn't even wake up as I. This ship cuts out your homeboys. Yes for value and I tried it one day at work and it just cuts out the room and I went with people people who really respect that and don't try and talk day and said that's it I'm in my cave my by the action just writing for the OJ. It's great right. I'm going to try their do. It definitely works. Do you sleep with noise zone in your room. No but I wear earplugs. Silk Sleep Pat and Anne. I'm asking go into a cave. When we sleep was well Chris? He's like yes. Hats on again. Sorry I need all this equipment. What's the dentist? They told me and I didn't know that I grind my teeth in my sleep. Subsidy devastated I was just having such bad pain and so I was. I was solution. And she said He. You need a mouthguard and I was like. I cannot add more operators to my sleep my husband believe me. Now I describe my season my sleep. Just something they continue. Hey so that was doing porter. I was talking to their very nice to chat with her links to her books and her charity charity help refugees slash choose love in the description of this podcast. Now off drive record this altro WPRO. I'll go back edited. Put Up podcast and then this evening I think we're going to carry on watching succession. Yeah I know they the party but it was one of those things in my mind. It's the fleabag factor. Just a wait and overwhelming weight of hype and expectation that comes with reams of rave reviews awards awards and your friends telling you all it's so good you've got to watch it I just think Maybe I won't watch it then. Sounds as if you've got got it covered and I you know but it just got ridiculous after a while. There was so many people saying how good it was so we sat down gave go. This is a few months back actually started watching the first series. If you're even late to the party eighteen than I am and you haven't seen succession. It is about a Rupert Murdoch. Rub Maxwell type media oligarchy and the struggles within his family mainly between his children for control of the company and and my initial reaction. Was I get it horrible. But I'm not sure how much fun it's going to be to spend time with these people so I kind of gave up or other we gave up. It wasn't unilateral myself and my wife agreed to give up but then we had more conversations with more friends saying on and then new new new. You got to stick with it because it's so good this so much more to it so multi lead and in multi textual anyway so we did go back. This is good story. Isn't it but we went back and I'll tell you what we did actually and some of you may find this shocking. And I'm sorry if so but we rather than go back to series one and pick up where we left off we were about three episodes in we just started watching series two and sure enough after a few episodes it got really good and then it got veteran better and by the series two finale. We were UH electrified with excitement and so now for the last few nights we've been picking up where we left off in series one and I would imagine that it's not the way that Jesse Armstrong. The show's creator would recommended that we watched the show. But it's actually working quite well as a sort of prequel. Oh it's so good so yeah there you go. You're welcome recommendation for a show that everybody knows about an is probably slightly sick of a hearing about. If you're anything like me well give you another recommendation. Have you heard of a film called Star. WARS SPAT AFAM boy in space ace. Who makes friends with a couple of robots one of whom is like a little? They have adventures and the good thing about it. Is that if you you like it. There's a lot of them well actually before we go today. He's a recommendation for something less. Well known a podcast it cost. It's called the secret artists. podcast hosted by comedian. An artist anti McGraw basically any has identified the fact that many comedians have artistic aspirations or pretensions or backgrounds backgrounds and You know they just like ought in some form or another and so she sits down with them and paints for an hour our so. It's a nice therapeutic mode to be in when you're having a conversation with someone and it's good I I I listened to a couple. Katie wicks and Phil Wang. Who else she got on the pier? Novelli Harriet Kinsley loose. Santa's reese James Ames Elliott white all sorts of good people from the current. UK comedy scene and Give give it listen Link is in the description of this podcast. Rosie come on hotel. If she's down there or not. I see moving blob in the dock. Here she comes. Yes that's a good site L.. Dundalk love you. Who all right? Hey look thanks so much to donate a PORTA for making the time once again. Thank you very much indeed to a cost. Thanks as ever to shame a snuffy Mitchell for his help with this podcast. And thank you to Matt Lamont for editing editing. The compensation this week. Thank you very much shameless. And Matt thanks to you for listening right to the end it's Roic or or maybe you just fell asleep. That's the case. Sorry but I love you it sucks. Yeah Yeah

London Adam Buxton facetime breast cancer frank Dawn Andreas UK Chris US Musk Anderson Steve Tom Cruise baseball Philip Philip Dornod Porter BBC mark
EP.121 - LOUIS THEROUX

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:19:02 hr | 7 months ago

EP.121 - LOUIS THEROUX

"Rosy rosy for Walk Rosie. Hey response from the top of that house. Come on this. I did one more gye broadcast band. Now you fucked up podcast out and started listening. I took my own and bounce up human folk then I recalled it all the noises while name as Adam Buxton nine. I want you to joy is staged relied. Adler lessons looking at me. Like what the bloody Allioune rose come on. We're going to walk. Do you WANNA go. I'm carrying a small Bluetooth Speaker because I'm GONNA call my guest to help me with this week's introduction and I was just playing a bit of music on the speaker and singing along with it still I dream of it by the beach boys but now she's standing on the track staring at me like. Why were you singing that Song while that speaker? Is this not a normal walk? I is a normal war. Come on Rose Rosie come on now. The Sun's come out and everything. I think she's bucket off back to the house blimey every once in a bad mood week. Six of the lockdown and the atmosphere back at Costco Buckles especially among the teenage boy community has recently been a little tense. Okay what are we doing here? I am calling Louis Really. Try facetime audio connect to a Wifi network to use facetime. You fucking idiot. Wow that's a very rude alert. Sorry about that business Okay just a regular cold then Pai Lou. How you doing good how you doing. I'm all right man from my computer. I know it's not actually a facetime call. I forgot that you can't make facetime calls outside. You need a Internet connection and I'm outside on my walk with Rosie although Rosie has gone back home because she senses that something's up and it's not a normal walk because I'm calling you and I've got like a Little Bluetooth Speaker with me so she's acting like fuck this. I'm going home. Sort of knows you to subatomic level. She's like this isn't what I signed on all. Yeah exactly I'm GonNa read out my introduction that I've written and you can just give me any comment so corrections that suggests themselves. I often describe you as journalist and documentarian. That's my shorthand description for you. You happy with that really like that word. Americans used the word documentarian. Okay which I think is kind of an ugly look. What are you having then? journalist and documentary presenter Account Say Journalist. Documentary presenter and PODCAST Louis. Through when the lockdown started I sent out microphones to a few people. I knew that I wanted to have on the podcast and Louis was one of them but as you will hear rather than spending all his time talking with me he's been carrying on with his own set of fascinating celebrity guests for a radio four show slash podcast called grounded. I listened the first episode the other day with Jon. Ronson really enjoyed it but couldn't help noticing that you described the microphone that I sent you were recording on as dodgy. I feel well I retract Nazi by Greenwich an excellent microphone. Yet he blew. It's when it's beautiful. I wanted to set that up in cool with pence down. And we'll good because as this we'll hear the first part of compensation you Lord it all over me with your number one. Podcast recorded on the microphone. I sent you so pants down. Action is good. That's all right. We recorded this conversation exactly a week ago and I was feeling quite ill that day. I hadn't slept very well. I took a pill halfway through the conversation. Then I felt a lot better but it was ifan chat with her any bits in there that you were worried about me worried that might be seen to. We would joke about being lip and then the next thing glibness ironically but. I worried that that could be construed as real clip. That was the main one I think I also Was a tiny consent of throwing my dad under the bus by talking about his lack halls compassion for students so cat Kids to solicit funds that travels from him. I said that would pretty no blind. I think it was fine and it was finally is definitely fine. It's definitely fine. You don't need to also I mean you to a certain degree like unless people really thing that we're awful you have to kind of assume that we are somewhat aware and sensitive to the situation that many people find themselves in in the current crisis. We're not totally exhausting to worry about everything but the danger of token view is just like with talking as friends. And so I I let my guard down a left up restraint and I would be in another context doing a different kind of appearance and so goodell real real be has a danger of coming out that could be good and then sometimes it's a bit of a No. I think it was fine. I think it was good. Well speaking of being a bit of a track I was uncharacteristically. Rude and child the ship out a well respected art film normally. I like to think of myself as a bit of an east seat and open minded and adventurous but as soon as the subject of this ought film came up that I'd seen years ago I just went on and on about how boring it was and I felt bad about. What did you feel bad about that? Yeah I just thought Oh. That's that's a shame. I have kept that. We talked about lockdown life. A little bit not too much. I hope and whether there are worthwhile things to be taken away from the whole experience. I don't suppose anyone else in the world has covered that we talked about the fact that you spent some time with Joe Exotic which I think you've talked in other places about a little bit but I was interested to hear about your experiences with him. And some of the other people who turn up in that net flicks doc tiga king and by the way for people who are sensitive to spoilers towards the end of my conversation with Louis. About Joe Exotic. There is a possible target. King Documentary Spoilers. So be warned. We also talked about the Beatles and that was sort of it. Who's your next guest on your podcast? Say Twenty four you George Right yeah. It was a good one. He's good value. Yeah great okay thanks thanks. I look forward to listening to. It can look off yourself speeches which is high. Talk back to to sound good. Thank you for sending the Mike by the way. Oh not at all. Has it been useful? You're really for beginning a lot of use out of it. That's great. Have you started doing your own? Podcast yes I have recorded five or six now. Wow if you don't keep busy just to keep busy done boy George. Oh Yeah. That's good you Lenny Henry. How was that good? They've all been good in different way very different Mary. Mongolia's Gail Porter. Jon Ronson. How was Boy George? Very Fun and I just reached out to him on twitter. He follows me and he got straight back to me and said Oh yes. Sure go through my publicist here ahead. Details and so we spoke for two or three hours and it was for me was just sort of a little bit of. Nostalgia I fan boy. Thing he is you know came up through the punk scene through the blitz kids. Have you ever interviewed him? No I met him once ages ago with Joe when we were doing a weird thing on TV and he seemed Nice. He struck me as very funny to the pathologically honest but also that he was. If you've read his first volume of memoirs he was just a kid grow up in Woolwich and a big squabbling brawling. Irish family went went to a school where no one recognized his talents. Knowing he was gay. I think pretty early age and then got swept up in this kind of half of all God. Half pop scene walk around dressed as a non or flamboyant plastic clothes and for him. It was all Bowie right. He was absolutely. It's got to Bowie on his arm as well as a tattoo of Suzie from Suzanne. The band she's another one of Leigh bowery and another I think of Marc Bolan anyway. So He's a real music and fashion obsessive and I think all of that's really interesting. Plus his first sexual experience fifteen it was just. He'll talk about whatever you ask them about in a very free and honest way and he doesn't take any shit. Oh Wow that sounds great man. I'm looking forward to hearing those. It was fun doing them a little bit stressful because of the technical saw and I'm aware that I'm sort of pissing on your patch quite right and using your microphone if I can mix the metaphor pissing out of your microphone onto your leg and saying okay. Little Doggie is time for the big donkeys to play run along now which is not an ideal position to be in but it's corona virus time. We have to make a living presumably. Some of those horse you wrote in on this stage to yourself a long enough time for real broadcast to show you how to do all right fair enough. Well here's NAVATO broadcast to question. What was your criterion than for getting hold of the guests? Great question is the concept of the podcast. Like my other question. Because it's supposed to be talking to you about your favorite food or your inspirational conversations in a kitchen cupboard. It's all done in a cupboard. There's no gimmick there's no concept other than having a long chat and the criterion for guest was to try and have a mix that they should all be. I guess I mean it sounds very vague and bland but people always interested in people who felt there was something not to get into and they are all in different respects people who are happy to open up none of them so far touch wood it will continue has been resistant in but with all of them. I found myself saying it'll be about an hour to an hour and a half and then at the two hour mark thinking I wonder if taking the MIC. Now yeah the other thing because I thought about you a lot while I was doing in this is how you approach your subjects and I was aware that I also didn't want it to feel like does Ireland disks right because there's a temptation and Marc Maron. Does this as well to start at the beginning and go chronologically towards the end which I think in general you don't do no. I go too far the other way I it might turn out like this. I just start talking and then I forget all the things that I wanted to ask. And then it's just a meandering. I mean that's where the whole rambling concept comes next. What's good about how you do it with me? I haven't quite worked out whether it's one or the other so I've been trying to jump in the middle then go back for a bit and then jumps off so I've been a touch of rambled but a touch of chronological but occasionally guilty of could grinding into something alleged grinding and grinding and then it gets a little bit heavy you go into report a mode. Yeah going psychotherapists report mode where I'm like but I want to dig into this. What was it in you with? Miriam Margolyes had it in my head that it must have been quite traumatic growing up with same sex attraction right in that era of nine hundred forty one in the sixties when homosexuality was outlawed although only for men for women but either way I thought well that must be difficult when you grow up and you know that you are pre stone. Will you know you're attracted to people at the same sex? And She just sort of tossed aside stepped over and then I came back to I. Revisited it four or five times before I realised either. It wasn't difficult if he wasn't interested in talking about it but it was getting me nowhere. Okay get over it Louis. Then you're like you're lesbian. You're list pan-human why are you? A lesbian. Human like always should've objective for like a specimen under a glass. Yeah it was a very kind of sits male gaze that I was applying so you'll gay and lesbian gay woman who's attracted to people of the same sex. Is that correct? So when you see someone of the same sex you feel aroused. It's like come on get a grip. It's two thousand twenty but I think it's fair enough to expect the listeners to adjust to your point of view to accept the fact that you are asking questions that interest you. You don't have to ask questions that are going to be entirely objective that they're going to represent absolutely everyone listening. There's no way you can good point. And if we were accused of when we made a program about poly-amorous in Portland and one or two of the contributors were not happy with it and said it was very. I don't know what they said. Maybe hetero normative might've been the phrase in other words they were saying you came at it from the approach of someone who's not poly-amorous that was that criticism to which you can only say. Yeah that's because I'm not poly-amorous right and in fact that was the view I was reflecting in a certain respect that represents the view of the majority of the audience which isn't to say that there's anything wrong with it but that's where the questions are coming from yes. I think it's valid isn't it but then I found myself not panicking but feeling my competition with Miriam Cruz. Then I thought well wonder if I'm erecting this fence between us. She's the lesbian. I'm the straight so then I began talking about same sex attraction experienced growing up which I I think I overdid it a bit. I said I had crushes on all the boys growing up which isn't really completely true but anyway it's all good. Did you ever experiment? You never actually kissed any. She said to me I've never had a penis inside me and I said well that's something we have in common. I've never had a male tongue inside me other than my own. I never kissed with tons. I smoked a couple of boys experimentally and didn't enjoy it that much. I don't even know if it's a snug if the tongues not tongues I think smoke. Now smoke if you go and kiss a girl on the lips as heterosexual married man. That's not gonNA go down well with your partner. She's not going to be equivocating about. Is it a snug arm nor sure? If that's true women friends who when I kiss hello goodbye. They go for mouth kiss. Yeah but that's a surprise when it happens. I mean this is in the old days. It's not going to be doing any mouth kissing for the next year or two corona. Check Sir Sir Andrew. Okay thanks so much for doing this. By the way Lou Lucia. It's nice to catch up. Congratulations again on your book. Oh thank you yeah. It feels good to have at least got the audio book out. It's weird because the physical thing doesn't come out until the end of September end of August. Maybe for the dinosaurs. Yeah I think I'm right in saying that it's the first time in audio book has been released before the physical thing. Once again you'll blazing a trail. I would never thought about doing this. Buxton wants to do what the puzzle it doesn't make any sense. We've talked to the towers on technical name. Think we can do it. How that's what I've got and there's a podcast at the end of it with me and Joe Talking and Joe did a certain amount of roasting of. He's under the bus again. Does he. Rose to you face to face. Doesn't roast face to face in life? Yeah he does. And that's one of the things that we talked about quite satisfying conversation that I had with Joe which you can hear at the end of the audio book because there was a couple of moments of genuine catharsis for me of settling things that I'd been worrying about that I wrote about in the book and kind of left open ended instead of imagined that he would either ignore or just assume that he wouldn't process them but he did and we spoke about them and it was quite good. I had an odd feeling of closure at the end of talking to him about well. What kind of things do you mean things about our friendship? And the kind of imbalance in all friendship not very specific. I mean you know. It's not the kind of book that really is digging too deep into my relationships other than the one with my father. I suppose I started getting into the whole power struggles. That happened within a double act. You know when you're working together in your friendship is suddenly switched to a different track and you get all these precious that you'd never really considered before all that maybe we're operating in the background and suddenly they have to be dealt with. They're all right there in the foreground. I thought Joe came across very well in your book. And at the same time you're action for him and very faint sense of you needing perhaps more from him at school emotionally and in terms of recognition affirmation that he was prepared to give and that maybe he was aware that and played on a little bit by saying. We probably won't be friends. Are you know after we leave or in twenty years whatever it is which is I think that is quite joe like? We've joked about the fact that we both used the term aloof but to describe Joe and he picked up on that forty forty. That's right haughty but the part of Joe's ordinance is a self protection mechanism right and he is underneath. He's a very lovely guy. You know what I mean Akiva. He's actually at affectionate and thoughtful and vulnerable human as we all are. Do you think you laughing as I've said something you mean and I pulled out of it but I wasn't. I actually think that JOE is capable of extreme thoughtfulness and consideration and sometimes when he thinks he's under attack his horse decide comes out. What do you think about that? Well again like all of us but yeah. I mean I don't want to Give the Gameboy. You'll have to buy the audio but discover but yeah. I think you're absolutely right. And you've picked up on a couple of things that were most important to me to to convey or to explore a little bit and also to pick up one other thing. I think you all revealing in your book of your relationship not just with Joe but especially with your dad and some of it is extremely powerful and affecting and rule and what you say about him. As he approached the end of his life and then the revelations about his financial stresses and what he went through to raise education children in the manner to which he felt they deserved rights and privately educating you and then attempting to get loans from people. I mean. I thought the letter he wrote to John Kerry David. Cornwell was amazing. Like extraordinary and must've been. I can only think brutal and painful for him to have to send yet. He was so proud of being friends with John. Kerry you know what I mean they. They were university together and dad was older than him but he just thought he was the bee's knees especially when he turned out to be successful writer and yet when he got into financial stress he was one of the people that my dad wrote to ask for a loan. Quite a big loan and me. I think he found it incredibly humiliating as you would. It was fifty thousand pounds right. I think forty forty different and older money. But can you imagine writing to someone sort of saying? Did Jim Please? Can you fix it for sorry? Did John I find myself in the embarrassing situation of having to ask you for forty thousand pounds like it's I don't know that would be tough. My first thought when I read it was like well if I had lots of money and a friend of mine wrote to me asking for forty thousand pounds. I think I would give it to them. I think my instinct would be like. Yeah if I can afford it. He go and it would be good if you paid me back. And don't take the PISS and understand that this is because you'll my friend Blah Blah Blah. But you would want to do it. I'm so glad you said that because this is going to be so much easier now. Yeah not forty though. It's one hundred thousand okay. Have you got well actually. I'm seeing the ground. My letter to you chose a couple of weeks. You don't see what he wanted. The forty thousand four was it walks in the wine country. No it was to keep my brother at Haileybury so this is the thing it was. My Dad was all these humiliations that he experienced. Were full things that for most people in the world would not be considered important. It would be like well. Here's a solution to your problem. Don't send your children to a fucking private school you maniac you know. Just get your head around the fact that there are all sorts of ways for a person to turn out to have a worthwhile life and they don't all include going to a private school you know. I thought he. He in his letter in his pitch to John Kerry he said Oh. It's our bill to pay you back because I'm GONNA use that forty thousand and I'm starting a tech company. I've got an idea for something called the worldwide web or whatever it was but if you're right there was forty Jonah Keri please can you send me forty thousand pounds so I can keep sending my children to private school? How is that going to go? Well well he wasn't as explicit as that you know because the thing was that he had used up all his money his mortgage payments were in arrears the bailiffs were knocking pretty much but it was because he spent all his money and mortgage the house to pay for our education and so he got himself into that pickle but he didn't explain that explicitly. Tila Kari it was just like look. I'm in trouble. I need this amount of money. Here is a scheme for how I will pay you back and so over about. Three page is off to the initial page of light. Can I have some money? We're all these ideas for how he was going to pay him back. One of them was. I'm going to write a book about wine. It's GONNA be Great. I know all sorts of stuff about wine. I'm the wine country. I remember the book but he eventually did get published. But it certainly didn't make him any money and he had another idea about writing a book about boarding school about prep schools and all these sorts of schemes. That he had that he thought we're going to make him a load of cash. Just parenthetically on a tangent from that one of the things I remember from my childhood. Was That my dad occasionally would receive letters because he's a travel writer from students who are in on the gap your approaching. They get here. And we're trying to fund the sort of volunteer charitable endeavors. Like I wanted to go and work in an orphanage in bum or I'm going to travel around India and teach villages how to irrigate their crops. Whatever so this is going by quite a few years and once or twice showed me the lettuce and he's Oh well that seems fair enough. What are you going to do? And he would sort of look disbelieving and say it will become clear. He was actually annoyed by the letters. I think I'm going to write to their parents and say. Do you realize I've just received begging letter from your child? Like the idea of him financing someone else's children deeply offended him and I think because he was self made he'd grown up poor immigrant family in Boston and made his own money and I think he thought that. Just the whole idea. Asking for a handout. If that's what it is I mean maybe that's unfairly characterizing it but rubbed him the wrong way absolutely and it did for my dad. To one of his favorite sayings was neither a borrower. Norlander BE IS THAT IT neither of Orlando B. Yeah something like that that. From from the okay. I think it's from him now. Think Polonius is one of the factual phrases that he comes out. Well my dad definitely believed in that and I would that as a sort of Tory ish way of looking at the world kind of get on your bike. Your self reliant. I can do it. You can do it. You Know Teaching Institute Helpless Right. If you if you sit a rely on handouts I've got a terrible headache and I am struggling to actually organize my thoughts. I'm sorry you WanNa take a newer fan or something I might do. Yeah okay take a couple. I slept very by the last night. I had to get up four times to go use the toy. Evidencing time is dead to their dog. Side over of the cell walls to I would sway out by the eggs and my view of stumbled being all I want instead to a GPS job so he doesn't spraying out at all. The apply all lucious. You stressed the general general. Maybe a little. Maybe I didn't I woke. I slept incredibly bad last night and I woke up feeling really rough and thinking fuck. What's that is that covert it can't be covert. I haven't been anywhere Just you know. I've received a few packages in this being a couple of delivery people but how could I have covert? I've been here for four weeks and then I thought oh well if it's not that then what is it Something incipient and terminal kind of framing. It's probably the final straight. You've had a good run with middle aged men coming down the homestretch. Listen IF I was. This is obviously Glib by the way if I was diagnosed tomorrow with something terminal. I'd be fine with it. I've had a great time and been luckier than most and certainly got nothing to complain about. This very glib is clip in the midst of pandemic strange sense of humor young man. I mean obviously there is. It's more than lip. It's super clip clip. Plus the most powerful Gleb yet Glib Newbie full Miller. The even more glibness extra strength Glib someone was saying the other day one of the weird side effects of the whole pandemic has been for some catastrophe sts and for some people who are kind of paranoid and Afraid of all sorts of things in the world that they now feel a sense of calm because the worst has happened. Jon Ronson saying something like this. I mean it's not the worst. Is it a. There's loads of ways that it could be worse even but it's not ideal and it's pretty bad it's the kind of thing that people who worry about things in the world might have imagined before and now here it is and surprise surprise. Everyone kind of adapt. S- not everyone and it certainly worse for some people than it is for others. Are you still using your global? Maybe I'm sure turn off now. That's I wasn't old glebe new exit strength. The old Glib was quite powerful because there's a lot of people who are not adapting and dying. That's what I thought. I covered that I said not everyone. I didn't want to really go too hard on the adapting and dine speaking that along that sort of line someone was saying of this people tweeting like stop calling frontline Workers Heroes. Stop calling the people who work in shops or make deliveries heroes. That people doing jobs that aren't properly paid that they don't want to be doing and they don't WanNa be on the front line and they don't appreciate being called heroes when they don't have any choice in the matter interesting. That's like fuck it out. I don't think anyone was trying to be mean I hadn't seen that. I do think that with everything going on like that. Certain tropes that become irritating and one of them is well look the crisis brings out the best in us. We hit on radio for at least a couple of times a day and I'm not really sure if it's it's certainly not true across the board in some ways it does in some ways it doesn't I think it brings out in certain respects the truth in us. You know people who are pitching in and helping and doing a lot. I think it's other people who aren't doing much and people capitalizing on it in different ways fraudsters trying to make money out of it and yeah. Have you noticed that there are a lot more? Twas fish ads online and especially on youtube like for all kinds of really ridiculous products popping up in front of videos. Is this the Segue into you? Buying a mouth exerciser. Yes that was incredibly smooth. Though that segue it was absolutely could have been seamless. And then you called it out because you couldn't just let it sit there. You couldn't let me have that moment of Kim. The fucking smoothest. Segue seamless segue into a thing that you knew. I was going to talk about thought. Now I'm GONNA just call that out. I did but that was like me kind of saying Bravo underlay. I was just noting the suave tape that you were displaying. Go on tell us about your eye. Border Louth exerciser. That's that's the end of that. How about this? Oh what kind of thing do you mean they ego his what. I was imagining. I was thinking you were going to go. You're right and then you have given me a couple of examples. I only know them. I don't think the seen any in the mouth society. That's the only one I've seen. Have you seen magic? T what's that? There's a big long. Add this for this product called magic teeth and it has all these people grinning at the camera. And there's some problem with the teeth either they'd be knocked out or they're very badly decayed and so with magic teeth. That needed to be a problem but magic teeth. Just like sit of plastic teeth. Really white teeth like Halloween tape that you would stick in your mouth exactly. Are you serious? But then the other ad I saw have you seen this one is for jaws assize J. Aws Zad Sasha. I love that. Because it's a pun on jazzercise rise already a Portmanteau word of dubious construction and the ad if you saw the same. It's a bold guy who's a bit like Michael Chiklis. Yes saying I I saw this and I thought it looked kind of weird but then I tried it like he acknowledges I looked like a complete goofball doing this. Yeah but wait but everyone is employing that strategy with Oleg Crappy ads at the moment like people doing ads for you know selling at home you sell Amazon products and stuff and you can make thousands and thousands. And they're all scams of one kind or another but they all begin with like. I know it looks like a load of bullshit but it's true and I made thousands and you can too and anyway. So they do that with Georgia size. A little bit so josie size. If you haven't seen the ad it's kind of rubber ring and sticky in your mouth and it comes with a couple of little bite strips. There looks what's it called us Squid when you get it as a Calamari. It looks like a really hard piece of Calamar Blue Calamari between your teeth to upper and lower mandible. Yes chew away on to away. It's got twenty to fifty pounds of resistance however much that is a murder means nothing to me right. How much resistance do you get from a normal piece of Calamari? Not even five pounds created Calamari squid available parts of the Mediterranean with regular Calamari. You can only expect five seven pounds of resistance. And generally they will only come and Juan College dispiriting white and it rejuvenates your Chin annual chisels and sculpt the joy line for the best luck ever. It's fitness for your face Aloha. That's what the ad says. But did you say that you'd actually ordered one? Yes so I bought one. Have you got one with you? Know I don't have it yet. It's being delivered from America. Is it any medical foundation for it? Well I'm glad you asked me because I am fully qualified to answer that question and I would say no I mean. They can't be there because I mean. Did your parents have you used to do this? Like my mom. I remember in the eighties or the late seventies would sometimes do these weird exercises with her jaw and she would sit up pat underneath her jaw. Allah and to slap her face and stuff. And I'm mummy way doing that. And she'd read in Cosmopolitan or something. It was back then version of the fucking Georgia size. You know what I mean. It's just a total scam. Surely that's not. I would think so because in fact. Your jowls droop in Middle Age. Not really so much because the muscles or any weekend. It's just your skin is becoming more slack. I would have thought so all it chewing on Calamari or rubbles in the world is not going to tighten up the skin. Yeah well we'll find out plus you've got a bid so no one knows what's going on underneath your bid anyway. Now that's why I've got a beard wants. My face is transformed by the jaws aside. I will shave the beard off and I will show off the incredibly ripped face underneath. You'd be able to flex different parts of Your Chin and lower cheeks. I'LL BE DOING EXPRESSIONS. That no one has ever seen me do before and I'll probably get a lot more acting work out of it. It's all very exciting but now I want to know if there is a way to you know like West the exercise equipment for your hair. How do I bulk up my testicles? There's so many other excise products that I would buy or just met your testicles less droopy exactly people must have vanity surgery on. They're not sack. The muscles causes your testicles to go up and down is called the Juno this now the chromosome chromosome not even facing Kristie. Yeah Yeah Because Matthew. Bonnie that's right. The artist used to be married to who who's married to cook made an entire sort of twenty hour movie cycle about five or six different films called the criminals to cycle right. There was all about that muscle. Didn't we go and see that at the B M? I never saw it. I've never seen it. Maybe I went to see that with Joe what the ICA or something we saw it. And I just like what the fuck am I doing watching this? Is it good? No it wasn't good. Of course it wasn't good. It was so boring. It was an art film. You know he's a big fan of your podcast as welcome on any time to talk about. How shit no I didn't did I say Shit? I didn't say it was shit. You said No. It wasn't good. It was so boring. Yeah I stand by the Boring Pot. I suppose I meant good in the sense of like if you go and see a regular film. Is it good? No it wasn't all walking this back now. Let's see how you get out of this particular box that you find yourself wasn't all the things that you would want normally from trip to the cinema. I E excitement. Some kind of relate relatable characters and story any sort of interesting experience whatsoever actually. That's not true because it was interesting. Like the level of technical expertise. There was incredible makeup stills from it look make it look amazing. He's sort of dressed up as the Greek God Pan Rights you know. He's kind of been a goat suit. Yeah working shortage of quite cool looking really cool with quite good prosthetics as state of the art prosthetics at the time giving him a weird snout and strange is and things like that so it was all incredibly beautifully put together. It didn't look usually what differentiates kind of art films from. Mainstream films is the production values because there isn't the budget available but he had found a way of making it. Look as if it was made to the standards of your average mainstream feature films so that in itself was quite weird and unsettling so I guess a success on that level but then once you got beyond it you said if I don't know we're bored but maybe I just didn't understand it or I didn't know what think about I didn't know how to occupy my mind while I was watching it. Well what you could have been doing. Which is what I'm doing now is flexing your master because not an exercise you can actually do sitting down to tighten up your nut saying and you don't even need a blue piece of Calamari to do that. You could just do that anywhere anyplace I'm doing it now. Yeah Yeah but that's not the same as women. Excising their pelvic floor muscles is it for example. I think version isn't it? I think that's what we do know. And they would do the same thing. No because for women pelvic floor exercises as far as I'm aware I don't know exactly what I'm talking about them. A greater degree of control down there which can be useful for all sorts of reasons but experts. Change exactly when you carrying two cups of tea and then you see a piece of Lego. And you okay. I know what I can do is very useful which men can do anyway will to get it back to the Kremlin to which were okay to talk about. I don't think that a strong Kremlin would serve any practical purpose whatsoever. Would it well? Unless you're sort of flying through the air and there was like a knife and you have to clear like a long jumper or huddling over in your balls slightly lower. You lifted your legs like a harder to get over but your balls were hanging slightly lower and then your Holy Shit. My polls are too low. They're GONNA get sliced. That's when you're creme astir comes into play you can let them a little and can lift them up that half a centimeter. Yeah you know when they come into use his situations of extreme physical exertion right where your body says okay. Tighten up guys. This is intense. We need to pull everything extraneous in because something. We need to be in our kind of game mode or on. We're on a war footing. And nothing can dangle. Nothing should be flopping that happens automatically the eye and tight because when you go into the sea in it's called been worked properly but I don't think that's the Kremlin during that though is it that's just the skin contracting and turning it into a hard walnut walnut tenths leathery protection this is getting quite x-rated jet. Like yeah I'm sorry. That's my fault as usual. Thank you what I'm going to ask you some lockdown questions. I didn't think anyone else is doing. This is a good point this pandemic. Everyone's ignoring yeah. You're not hearing about on the radio about how lives will never be the same again. I'm just going to come be using new improved clip for this kind of you want. It's always there is an option to see how it goes. I'm always is to use both are. I'll use a little squirt of Glib and then I'll wipe it off and use a bit of sincere saul some people. It's like coke. Some people prefer old coke like probably more people like in fact. The launch of new improved. Glib maybe one of those things that goes down as a marketing disaster cherry globe. Like what a strange decision to launch new improved glib during a pandemic timing when you didn't need at glibness surely it's madness. It's a marketing nightmare but I would argue that time to stress the when you need a bit of humorous clip. Anyway look here. We go so generally covert news wise. How on top of the situation are you staying like you know what the INS and outs of the lack of p in the UK Do you know about when we might be getting out of the lockdown. Our are you on your info. I would say a medium of not been listening to the news. I don't watch the news on TV. I just I have the radio on through the day dipping in and out of not across the hard data last. I checked which was I. Think three or four days ago. I think I read that. In Europe there were a million cases and one hundred thousand deaths. That sound right. Yeah I know I haven't been watching the TV news as often as I would. Normally I think because where watching more TV and films as a family and so we don't tune in for news at ten as often as we would. I haven't watched the news the TV news. For years I hadn't I should say and then last week because of everything that was going on I thought well maybe we should watch the news and it felt a bit like pulling out a gramophone and cranking it up. You felt like Oh yeah remember this. We just don't watch much sort of they even calling narrative or LINEAR TV. The kids are constantly either watching streaming platforms or catching up on. I player t very rarely goes on in in the ordinary way in our house but I sometimes think about you and your homestead and without giving away too much and destroying the mistake that you worked so hard to cultivate years. You've got a lovely house. Plenty of space for the family and you could top off and do your own thing. You've got kind of a studio and in many ways. You were on lockdown not lockdown. But you you've been leading your life away from civilization while making obviously faure's out into the world for years. You feel eminently well equipped to deal with lockdown. Does it feel that way to you Yes I suppose. My average day is not that different before covert. I get to go to London every week. Or Two and talk to some people for the PODCAST. Maybe going to show here and there but actually while I was home I could not see anyone for weeks and it was fine. I didn't mind it. I liked being at home a beautiful house a hope. You don't mind me telling your listeners that it's a beautiful house that you don't lock the doors that often you're away. Usually August with many valuable paintings heirlooms silverware and kitchen on the left as you come. In even Zombie Apocalypse Film. Yours would be the house or the home. I should say witch you would really want to hijack and hold up in. Yep Right because you can. Almost you've got plenty of room to run around in. You could probably grow some vegetables and stuff. We are growing vegetables started growing vegetables. Yeah Yeah we're moving towards some level of self sufficiency and trying to embrace a life more in harmony with nature. I mean so far. It's going very slowly and we're in very early stages but yeah I mean well. We're lucky is what it comes down to. I guess it's a difficult thing to talk about because so many people are suffering so much and yeah exactly the the parts of that you take away from this that a positive have to be contextualised. But the truth is there are parts of it that I've taken pleasure in a kind of simplification of the routine and cooking more just being around the clock at at home taking satisfaction just making the three meals a day and I don't know just taking care of the kids really making the house sweeping cleaning all that stuff. Simple pleasures simple pleasures right. But they all rewarding that you find. Yeah well one of the Times that we spoke on the PUTT cost. You remember this. We were thinking about like. If you're on your deathbed how would you look back on the way that you spent your time and I described the kind of thing that makes me feel. I've had a good day and it was something like you know playing ten minutes. Obama man with my children or something and you like with a squirt of Glib said God that sounds boring. He said something all. You bored even just saying that. What an asshole. I am no no no it was funny but it did make me think like God you know what constitutes a worthwhile life is really not the same for everybody and I suppose the dominant voice on radio for the moment. Perhaps is that one of saying you know. Let's take pleasure in the simple things in life. Let's remind ourselves of what's really important. Let's appreciate the fact that a lot of our struggles and a lot of the things that worry US perhaps in the grand scheme of things not that important. Everyone is so focused on like getting ahead and doing better than everybody else and being a success and you can forget to ask the question but why what's at the end of all this you know what I mean. One hundred percent and in fact. I don't know if this is a forced analogy but we were watching the first season of the Ireland. The survival show that has bear grylls. Withdrawal Yeah yes. Yeah I was going to go on the island okay good. I'm glad you said that wasn't sure if we're allowed to say that. But what's amazing about that? That's sort of the lockdown existence. Time one hundred right. Because they don't have they have to forage all their own food. And and you just see how when things are stripped away you take inordinate pleasure in survival just starting a fire of finding some honey is an almost ecstatic experience. And so I think we've had a little those small compensation that can be extracted from the pandemic in from lockdown unto. Do with that. The feeling that simple things become maybe more satisfying and have you had an experience like that with your family in the last four weeks wave just caught yourself thinking. Hey look this is as fun as rewarding as any of the things that previously. I might have considered fun and rewarding in a career context winning awards meeting my heroes. Whatever it might be doing a great documentary. There's two things one is. Yeah I mean I don't know how to compare it but I've definitely felt close to my family and I've enjoyed being around the kids and seeing them and seeing the ways in which the two older boys who are teenagers have for the most part adapted and been pretty responsible about doing their lessons and embraced the strange situation. They find themselves in keeping with friends. They sort of play video games in order to socialize. Talk to One. Another through headsets through their phones. So that's how they socialize and then the rest of the time we do stuff as a family and then the little one who's only five. He's been the one that's demanded the most time and we've had challenges domestically it's been trying to get work done but also have a five year old who's really need someone there within most of the time but when you commit to being with him he says. I won't actually not going to try and work. I'm just going to spend two or three hours and we will do some KROFT staff. Were jump on the trampoline or go out and do some coloring or whatever it is that nothing is very fulfilling but that being said when we got back into work in earnest. When I started taping these podcasts I had this enormous feeling of relief. Maybe enormous is too strong but I did afterwards I thought wow that's what that feels like. Even though it was only a two or three weeks of doing nothing not doing not working in the in the normal way. It felt like quite a long time. I suppose it says something sad about me that I felt that I do seem to need that sort of self export whether it's self expression on or just being busy in a certain way or using those muscles are brought into service to do interviews or to make programs. I had it when I wrote a long article for the Sunday Times about Joe Exotic targeting the program. And we have doing that. I felt the same feeling of release or just kind of little endorphin dump of having been a little bit creative or productive now. I know what you're saying. I didn't read your Joe Exotic Article. It was behind a paywall Right there you go. Can you extract some of the fun nuggets of the article from behind the Pay Wall? Really all it was was just sort of basically pretty my flag down in Saint Louis. Oh by the way in case you didn't know. I knew Joe Exotic. Before he was famous on net flicks. I spent a week with him in two thousand an eleven. He had two boyfriends then as well and one was John Finley the guy with no teeth Or very jacket. Certainly he could maybe benefit from. What are the teeth? Just plastic teeth magic teeth magic teeth. He'd be a great candidate he has. She seems to have magic teeth now back then. He had non magic. He had muggle teeth Harry Potter joke but there was a different other boyfriend the other third leg of their relationship with someone else. Who was he was a? I can't even remember his name that clearly. Anyway I don't know that there was much of a scoop in it except that Joe was more or less as you see on the Netflix show obsessed with Carol. Baskin told me that he thought Carol Baskin had murdered her husband and fed him to the Tigers. And what else is there to say really but also mistreating the animals basically you could see the animals more on the Tigers. The primates and bears especially seemed to be going out of their minds behind bars. Yeah and the other guy you spoke to because this was a show. You did called America's most dangerous pets and the other guy you spoke to was tim. Stark Tim Star. He was the one who actually let loose baboon called. Tau Dion who clambered onto me. Yes and then he encouraged. Tim Encourage Tatyana to give me a kiss and she sort of you know. The first thing is supposed to say about the light. Other baboons of seeing Zoos Tatyana seemed to have a very different rear end. It's not because she was in heat or are boone's bums always like a lot of them are like that aren't they? It's like the most extreme case of hemorrhoids. You've ever seen in your life. Extraordinary like an enormous kind of doughnut monkey leather and so you're obviously try like okay. I'm going to try not to touch teddy honors Heimer. That's going to be feel really odd and then Yana extended to kiss. I genuinely have the impression that there was some sort of primate to private connection. Tatyana had taken a shine to me because I'd had a lot of worries about being attacked by either a monkey or a boon all moments in the show where you looked genuinely frightened. I'd be because I read so much about chimpanzee attacks and win a chimpanzee goes for you. It's game over. They are depending on what you really that. Five to ten times as powerful as an adult human male and we'll typically either rip off your face. Rip Off your nose or rip off your genitals. None of which I was particularly excited about happening right. It doesn't seem good but Tatyana instead of that it became a kind of instead of aggression what I felt a sort of erotic energy but I did not actually knock her but what did you. How did you feel about Joe Exotic? Because you didn't. There wasn't too much of an implication in the film that he was trouble. I mean I suppose there was certainly a suggestion that this was not an ideal environment for the animals and some of his ideas about. Oh you know. Wouldn't it be great? If Tigers and Baz coexisted because that would be an inspiring message message tigers and bears. Why would you have tigers and Biz indicate together to show people how they can get along? We can get along great message for kids. You know we can all just get along with each other and you get. Do you think when people Joe Exotica saying things like that. Do you think that it's total bullshit? That just feeding you a line and just like I'm just GonNa say this because it sounds fun or do you think they genuinely believe that. I think it's a little bit of both. I think there's definitely part of it is a marketing spiel and I think at some level he slightly believes it. It's probably more bullshit than sort of sincere because one of the things I noticed about Joe and that was a challenge at the time was he'd get lost in his own bullshit like he did. He would say things. I knew didn't really believe you know if you said like wouldn't the Tigers be better off not tiny cages. I wouldn't use to be working on saving natural habitat. That will people working on that. He would just sort of palm that off or you would say are members saying to him why he breeding more animals more tigers. Like because it's one thing to save tiger that are already in cages owned by people who can't handle it and I'll take your tigers. Live out their days over here. But Joe was breeding was bringing new lives into existence. He was doing that because for the first few months of tiger life. They're harmless enough to be sat down with children for photographs and people will pay a lot of money for that so that was one of his few guaranteed ways of making money so I sent to Hawaii Breeding Tigers expecting that. He was going to say that and he said so. When all taggers are dead in a while we can repopulate the wild and I remember thinking like let's not even your message like did you not read your own publicity material. It was one of those weird things where you're with a contributing thing like dude. Get on your brief. That's not even the lie that you're supposed to tell the law you're supposed to different lie you know. That doesn't make no one thinks that you can release. Tigers raised in captivity back into the wild. They can't survive. You are saying something completely nonsensical and it's sort of detrimental to the documentary that we have a spokesperson for this practice. Who can't even remember his own lines. You know what I mean. And all so. He's just been telling you as well that if someone came to try and shut the zoo down he would execute all the animals. Which by the way would make more sense than saying we can release them back into captivity. That's the thing about the show about tiger king that I think a lot of people have said is that it's just grim like when people started talking about the show initially couple of weeks back when it became clear that we're going to be in lockdown and people wanted to watch stuff and been Jim box sets or whatever and they said. Oh you got to see the targeting. It's crazy these crazy characters and it's funny and Hilarious and and actually even by the end of the first episode. Which is as far as I got. This isn't funny or Hilarious at all is depressing and grim and all the main characters are in one way or another a disaster area really and the animals are jokes to a well a human menagerie of misbehavior and folly and ridiculousness. Not to say that. I didn't enjoy Christmas. Our MUTUAL FRIEND. It and Yes instrumental in putting together and. I think they did a great job of organizing massive kind of complex and chaotic material and those moments of extraordinary power spoiler alert. You haven't seen it. Does a person dies about halfway through or two thirds of the way through. Did you make it that far? Now that I've read about that blindsides you and the person's mom talks about it. And the other. Contributors are all react in different ways and. I thought that was really shocking. Now is the thing. Do Lots of things? I didn't know it. But that was the part that really blindsided and shocked me everybody. The themselves a pot cost. Takeout was one of the rewards that has come out of this lockdown period for me as a father is spending some time with my teenage boys and really bonding with them about music. Which is something. I always fantasized about. Fatherhood Wise I always thought Oh God I can't wait to infuse with them about some of the music I love and now that's actually come true. And we've had a lot of sessions where after we eat together in the evening we'll sit around and will use spotify. Dj to each other. You know we'll say. Have you heard this? Play them some orbital track and they'll play me something by you know thunder cat or whoever it might be and it's been really enjoyable and my fifteen year old has suddenly got into the Beatles so most the time. He's Brady grumpy MONOSYLABIC. I hope he wouldn't mind me saying but in the moments where he does get more chatty he'll just suddenly light up and say Oh was a penalty to the Beatles. Pretty good and like yeah they all good and it takes me back to kind of discovering the Beatles which I didn't do until at the very end of my teens what about you. Were you always into them? Well I know I was about twelve when I went through a big Beatles face right but we say that big but my parents had the red album which I listened to ten eleven twelve so that was always part of the soundtrack of the house which was a love me do and Michelle and things like that and then when I was about twelve I got the blue on and then it blew my mind. I was. Oh my God. I didn't know the Beatles things like this. And we also had sergeant pepper in the house so blue compilation has gone. I am the wars and stuff like that does it. It's all I guess. Singles in the hits from sixty six to seventy I would say I am the Walrus here there and everywhere and come together and then I think around the same time. Maybe my brother brought Home Abbey Road. Oh Yeah what else about. Because he was two years older and so that was my key face. My mom used to listen to the Beatles when I was growing up a little bit when she was round with friends so to me it just sounded like. Oh Oh this is my parents music. This is boring and I kind of ignored it. I just discounted it for years and years and not until I was about seventeen or eighteen. Did I start listening to them? And then Thaw K. Right I can remember when my brother bought Abbey road home and put on. What's this and that for? The first one of the tracks identified the first one. But the I want you. She's so heavy heavy guitar picciotto man and it's amazing. It's a great trap. I remember if sounded a shade more mentally or aggressive than I was used to. Yeah and it's more primal somehow a little bit like Oh hang on this but then quite quickly I got down with it and then two years later that I got the white album so I suppose it took. It took a little while to go away with all of it. I want you. She's so heavy. Is The song that got my son into the rest of them. Because I played it to before the lockdown I went to pick him up from school one day on the way back. I stuck it on and I said if you ever heard this and it was a really great moment. He was sitting staring out of the window. And not being too chatty and I couldn't tell if it was because he was bored or just thought that I was a day call. I don't know any number of options and then we go home and hawked just as it was finishing down now now now now if you know that track is fucking epic and it just gets matter and matter. And bigger and DOC and his wall a warship feedback that starts building up I mean it's really elemental and then suddenly. It just goes an ends like the tapes. Run out or something and my son. Just said a turnaround. He was like. Wow fucking hell really. That's great yeah. It was extraordinary moment. I loved it anyway so after a few days of him getting into the Beatles. I said well. Let's watch. GimMe some truth. Which is the documentary about Lennon? Making imagine in nineteen seventy one. I think and have you seen that dog. No it's quite good. I'm semi obsessed with Lennon like I go through phases of being really really fascinated by him and watching a lot of stuff about it. Do you go. I mean my love for the Beatles is built consistent background note from when I was twelve onwards but I've never saw. I never read the lives of John Lennon by Alba Goldman and all I dipped into it. I did read revolution in the hat. Oh Yeah and McDonald's book the Song by Song Deconstruction ask right so I've never gone full sort of obsessive fan as I have say maybe with the doors with prince at one time with rap in the early ninety S so. I don't think there's a lot about night. Still probably wouldn't wouldn't know he's really a fascinating character so many strange contradictions and anyway he's good value very good. Like one of the amazing things about him was that he genuinely didn't seem to have much of a filter. He would genuinely say whatever he wanted. And you couldn't imagine him ever said a turning round to a guy off the doing an interview and saying Oh actually Do you mind losing that bit that I said about so and so you know he couldn't give a faulk and I'm kind of I suppose I'm so the opposite that I find that fascinating and also it scares me the idea of actually knowing someone like that. And what would it be like like for example? I've always been hung up about. How do you sleep? You know that song. Yes the one that you wrote about. Paul McCartney yeah right so this is a semi obsessed with this and keep crapping on about it but I just think. How could you write a song like that about your friend about this guy? You were in a band with so to give it some context. If people don't know this song it was. Lennon's riposte to this song that was on Paul McCartney's album Ram from Nineteen seventy-one and McCartney wrote this song. Too many people and some of it seemed to be a little bit of a dig at John and Yoko who are in that phase of campaigning. For Peace by staying in bed and holding press conferences in bed and in bags. And is there a salient lyric net? One was construed as bobbed. I think the line is Too many people preaching practices so literally. That was it. Oh there's another line that says you took your lucky break and broke it into so those are the two lines that could possibly be about John Lennon right but John Lennon obviously listened to it and thought fuck you. That's about me. Fuck you Paul McCartney and then writes this really long mad song called. How'd you sleep just taking him down in four verses or something and there's no ambiguity because he references lyrics it's not it's coded only inasmuch pause not named but this yesterday is referenced in just another day is referenced in so that's right? The only thing you done was yesterday and since you've gone you're just another day and you live with Straits who tell you you was king jump when your Mamma tell you anything fucking held. That's hard core. I think at that point. He probably hated Paul Disney. Yeah the sound you make music to my ears Lou. But afterwards he always said Oh no. It was just bands. Poll was fine. I love how the in Beatles law these always come up. That's one another one. Is that when John Died? Paul was asked how he felt a year to drag and then he walked that night and I think he didn't mean anything horrible by just came out wrong right but I always felt bad for McCartney because she would think something like that happens. How are you able to express the extent of all the confusion of feelings? And someone sticks a mic in your face and you just say It's a drag. It's not. It's not brilliant phrasing. The messaging is not my deal. No you're right. It's not candle in the wind. Anyway look to wrap things up. I have emailed you an audio file. Which is a very exciting discovery. That came to light a few years ago. It's an earlier version of. How do you sleep with even more pointed lyrics? This is quite a big discovery was a massive discovery. A couple didn't hear about it. Came to light in two thousand seventeen. They were remastering. The give me some truth. Doc for what would have been Lennon's seventieth birthday and they found this take with these lyrics that are going to blow your mind. We're going to listen to it. What do you think John You compares race relations to sell people? They sweep out. Look a aw there you go. That's amazing actually. Is kind of an astonishing little piece of musical history. Yes definitely about poll wait continue. Hey welcome back podcasts. Thanks very much indeed to Louis. I'm very grateful to Liu for his time. I'm also very grateful to give for music. An online music equipment staw that I've been using recently for my Pud costing needs and it has served me very well. I told him I'd give them a shout out because they've been Helping me find the right gear for another podcast project that I've been involved with With a charity that I'll say more about if and when it all comes together but give for music have also been. I know helping out other podcasters working for charities and various good causes Fuel involved in getting podcast together. Or you're a musician or whatever then I would really recommend this site that friendly and efficient. And they've got like loads of stuff. There's a link in the description. Should you wish to check them out? What else going to wrap it up fairly quickly this week. Because I've got to get back. I have a zoom coal with a future lockdown guests on the podcast. Hope you'll doing all right out there. I've noticed that certain gigs have been canceled during the summer. A starting to be rescheduled for later in the year October November. I don't know what's happening about my book tour. Obviously everything is still up in the air. People don't exactly know what the exit from the lockdown. It's GonNa look like what form it will take. It may be that. I don't actually get out and about on tour until early next year. I'm not sure I will keep you posted when I know anything. My website is currently being overhauled. But I hope it's going to be ready in a new form More easily maintainable form so I might actually keep it somewhat updated in the next few weeks but I'll let you know about that too. So this is valuable waffle. Isn't it his loaded stuff that may or may not be happening and I'm not sure where thanks very much buckles? You're welcome. Thank you very much indeed once again to Louis for his time. Thanks to shameless Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support on this episode. Thanks to Matt. Lamont as always for superb edit was buttery thanks to all the folks at a cost for that continued. Support of this podcast. Thank you very much for listening. Hope you're doing all right Till next time we meet take excellent care for what it's worth and I hope this isn't GonNa Creep you out but well. I love you them and up on camera.

Joe Jon Ronson Joe Exotic Rose Rosie Tigers Adam Buxton Louis Louis John Kerry Costco Georgia writer America Ireland Louis Really Pai Lou Adler George Right
DR XAND VAN TULLEKEN (RE. CORONAVIRUS)

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:02:03 hr | 8 months ago

DR XAND VAN TULLEKEN (RE. CORONAVIRUS)

"I did one more gye bend. Now you have. That cost out and started listening. I took my microphone. Found some but then I recalled it all the noises while I name is at Buxton. I want you to do. That's the hey how you doing in these strange and uncertain times part. Cats has how you have to begin every email these days. Isn't it some variation of fat conscious? Go in and say hi Manjula as wondering if you could send that invoice again. I seem to have lost it instead. You are obliged to acknowledge the current situation and because it's a serious situation you should do so in a way. That is somewhat poetic. Something like I hope you and those close to you managing to stay safe in these anxious and unsettling times and I was wondering if you could send me that invoice again. I seem to have lost it or you could go for something even more ambitious. I've had a couple of these recently. I urgently hope you are well able to find tiny moments of solace in these dock and uncharted waters. And if you could send me that invoice again I'd be grateful as I appear to have lost it. I mean that's hard to be. Isn't it anyway? Adam in Buxton here and as I speak in late March twenty twenty. It's the first week of a U. K. lockdown that the prime minister he's cool. Boris Johnson announced on Monday evening. The twenty third of March twenty twenty as part of an effort to slow the rapidly rising rate of infection in this part of the world from nineteen the corona virus. I mean I leave you alone for three months three and a half months and this is what I come back to. Now I am out on a walk with Rosie. It's our usual track out here in the East Anglian countryside and as usual it is entirely free from people one of the reasons. I like it but it's particularly useful now because there's no chance we're GONNA bump into anyone rosy as far as I'm aware being a dog is not vulnerable to the corona virus which is good we can still enjoy valuable hugging and scratch fund. I was hoping to return with the put cost a few weeks later than this. I said mid April I think at the end of the Christmas podcast with Joe. Probably I would have made a few lame references to Brexit and stop bullying on about how. I finally finished my book which I have done But then the fucking bulls with the little trumpets on them arrived. And now everything's Gone. GonNa stay neck out and say bad. But the situation encouraged me to start the podcast up again a bit sooner albeit with this Covert based episode the other episodes. I put out in the forthcoming weeks. Won't be like this. There'll be more like regular rambled chats but earlier this year. I met a director called Jonathan Van and he mentioned he was the younger brother of Alexander and Kris van Hooligan identical twin doctors. It sounds like the setup to a seventies. Tv show they are identical twin doctors who appear regularly on TV talking about health matters and it turned out that Alexander or Zonda listens to this podcast so a few weeks ago. When the corona virus crisis escalated then became a pandemic. I thought I would get in touch with zonda seeing is I don't know any other doctors. At least none that would appear on my podcast and have a conversation about the difficulty of knowing how best to respond to the crisis and how it's being handled here in the UK you know especially as no one else is really talking about it are they. I it was a little tricky trying to find time to talk to Zonda because he was filming a documentary for Channel. Four called Corona virus. How TO ISOLATE YOURSELF? Which has already ad but it can be watched on. Channel Four DOT COM channel four od You'll find a link in the description of this podcast. But I was able to speak to him eventually on the evening of Monday. The sixteenth of March. When as you'll hear I was fretting about whether it was a good idea to keep sending my children into school and the day after we spoke last week. All of this seems like such a long time ago now but it really wasn't the government announced it would be closing schools. The following Friday then lost weekend as we soar in the newspapers on Monday. People flocked in large numbers to British C- Fronts and went holidaying in apparently ignoring the advice to stay home. And so I checked him with Sandra again another skype coal last Sunday night to see how he thought. The government was doing as far as handling the crisis. We also talk more. Generally about some of the challenges that families and individuals face just on an interpersonal level. While we stay home in an effort to help and protect not just ourselves but all the people keeping the show on the road medical staff and care workers and teachers looking after that children and food supplies delivery drivers police rubbish collectors. The people that keep the Internet running. I mean so many people who are continuing to stop everything grinding to a complete halt anyway. The day off to that second conversation with Zonda was when Boris Johnson announced a more formal UK lockdown to lost for an indefinite period of weeks or months until the infection rate begins to come down and the health system is able to cope. I'M GONNA play edited versions of both my relatively short conversations with Zonda in this podcast and at the end. I'll be back just to say very briefly what I've been up to and give you an idea of what the rest of the podcast run might look like but I thought I would start by playing you. A I suppose particularly pithy section of my conversation with Zonda in fact it was The end of a second conversation and this is what he said. Sort of in summing up. What I'd say is if you are out there thinking. Oh my God was he doing a whole focus on this all going to be fine. It's not a big deal. This is not a dangerous virus. I would say you need to take much more seriously. And everyone needs to change their behavior really dramatically right social distancing massively reducing social contact. You'll not having people have. You're not going to other people's houses. You're not doing any of that stuff. But there were also people totally melting down and saying this can't be the end of the world and to all of those people I would say the evidence I've seen from talking to people who are doing the modeling and doing the researcher but proper scientists right that only interested in what the data tells them and the people who are responding to that data and set in the policy is that there is a plan and this is not the end of the world. I think it will look very bad. It will look very bad on the telly. And it will feel very bad to anyone who is caught in healthcare system over the next few weeks and everything we can do to minimize stock slow. That down will be really really good. But this will pass unlikely. We'll get back to normal and so I don't think people should be panicking. I think everyone should take it seriously. I hope everyone can find a little bit of space in the middle there. It's been very hard for me as well but not too anxious to take it seriously and to be generous and nice to other people around us even if we perceive that they are not being as as virtuous as as maybe yes there we go so. That's a kind of overview I suppose my conversation with Zonda or at least the headlines as he saw it. But now I'm going to play you the more kind of awfully Conversations that we have both of them in an edited form including Various insights into the workings of the incredible unit. That is the buckles family and other UH KOVIC. Nineteen related talk The first bit I'm GonNa play. You was recorded just over a week ago. On Monday March Sixteenth. And as you'll hear. Zahn experience in the medical field I would say makes him more qualified than most to comment on. What is an endlessly complicated and difficult situation and given the seriousness of what's happening. It's probably worth being clear that you know. This is a podcast. Not only. Is this podcast. It's my podcast so it shouldn't be considered the final word on anything we talk about if you have urgent questions will need further clarification your doctor or the NHS the best people to talk to but you can also find Zonda on twitter at X. AMD VAT. Okay here we go out so look your not sort of an epidemiologist or anything like that all you. Or what's your field of expertise bizarrely? I'm a medical doctor. I trained in infectious disease and particularly Tropical Disease Kind of strange infections and I also trained in public health on particularly in global health. And so this should be completely in my wheelhouse. I'm within that are specialized in crises and emergencies. So I worked in epidemic control full health. And if I'm lucky possibly not just because my on training but my identical twin brother is a molecular virologist as well as a medical doctor and works at the School of Tropical Medicine at the hospital for Tropical Disease and so he is very very close to the group of people that are responding to this and indeed. He looked off to some of the people with Ebola who've been treated in London so we've got a lot of insight remained so I'm not trying to set up as next up. I should know a huge amount about this. I should have a Leonsis on instead. I feel baffled and confused on quite frightened. Lots of people and so I've spent the day making a documentary about the self-isolation about the pandemic at the moment and so I've spent the last couple of days interviewing people and speak to people so I'm kind of on top of the situation. I'm not directly involved in the response. I'm nervous though I might get cooled back into medical practice because I'm not practicing doctor at the moment anyway. Sorry that's a lot about me. That does that context. Like I don't know nothing but I'm certainly not going to claim that I know everything and I'm most why do now I've got from other people? I trust yeah. That sounds reasonable and How's it going though with your dog? How the people who are self-isolating so far getting on and how long have they been self-isolating? Well today's very strange day because everything changed in the middle of the day the government advice switched from self isolate for a week and keep away from your family to at one person has symptoms in the house. The Whole Household Self isolates and It's the two weeks which is a big deal. And then they also said the advice is coming around the corner pretty quickly for everyone who is spelled ruble so probably the over seventy s and lots of other people as well to kind of self isolate for at least the next twelve weeks but they may be staring down the barrel of a lot longer self-isolation than that so I in fact just one of the delays to our speaking was chatting to my mom and dad and some. It's been strange making doc. Everything's changing all the time. But what started is Channel Four. Let let's try and make something quite fun. And engaging with a slightly lighter side about how to self isolate but let's give it a bright tone to engage people not silly but you know to not be gloomy and the journey. You was going kind of journey as a presenter and it really feels like I'm two days in on the journey has been very very strange. Someone is meant to know that doing right. And how? How did you feel watching? Boris Johnson's press conference today. What were your thoughts off that all you think that public health England have done a really good job and I suppose. I'm not a fan of Boris Yeltsin. There as dropped feebles. There are a few things that could have been on slightly differently. I suppose but mainly. He has appointed two of the best people in the world and Chris. Witty and Patrick Violence Chris. What he's the chief medical officer and then he's listened to them and those to know so much I think there's a sort of different areas thorough people where you might go. He's go chief great but those two there is total consensus that they all world experts. An everyone thinks that brilliant and they have a huge amount of knowledge. You dramatic experience. But they also kind of field for an epidemic. Right Hawks get just walked all over the place until Boris Johnson has listened to them. So when I listened to Boris Johnson. I think he's doing what he's told by them and vows good right well. My wife wants to know if we should send the children to school tomorrow. You have to keep doing them. My wife thing. My wife wants done now. She wants to keep SARS totally fixated on that. What was the question? Your wife wants to keep sending the children's well. This is how it's gone for us right so first of all I should say we are lucky enough to be able to keep the children home. We both work from home anyway. It's not a huge disruption to our routine. I understand that part of the impetus for keeping Schools Open. Is that most people or a lot of people are going to be really an extra trouble if they have kids to look after as well. They can't send the children to school every day. There's going to be a lot of healthcare professionals who are relying on being able to leave their children to go to school in order for them to carry on working but I wonder if the government would prefer that people like us who were able to have the children home from school and it's not a massive imposition. Is it a good idea to pull them out? Or is it GonNa make no difference whatsoever? Should we just keep on sending them in and play ball along with everyone else? No one should feel responsible about any of the choices they make in this. Unless you are hacking cough in Uganda crowded on the trying to decide to host a ray if you know but the rest of us there is no perfect guidance and we cannot stop this virus. We can all contribute to slowing it down but this is not something. You should have a big argument with your wife about at your wife saying. Keep the kids going to school. And you'll saying why don't bring them home and you'll both a bit right. There's a there's a logic to bucket what you're saying Yeah because they headline in my mind is flattened the curve. We've got a flat in the car if it spikes then we're finished because the spike is going to overload the healthcare system and then societal collapse and everything that comes from it So it's all about flattening the club. And if we can practice social distancing we should yes the reason ca this? Look at me flatten curve. The worst the economic consequences are and the holiday is for people to do the things that need to right. So pob going to curb you'll go to allow the healthcare workers to go and he sent all the time from school. Don't come around the hospitals ain't GonNa Die Anyway so you've got you've got a really complicated servants related things. Education is good or children are not gonNA diamond. There's one like love leap of optimism. It's that the children are not gonNA die. And so it's up to you but I think the schools will close eventually and there will be a moment where your kids definitely have to be at home. I'm by is going to be difficult for anyone whose hands Christmas or just anyone with a bloody family right. I mean we'll get up slightly listening on your family. And so I I feel like you're you're honest enough to go you portray us over like a proper family where everyone's got deal going on in it's complicated and so like my family. If look old announced together for a long period of time we start to go that Matt. Now you're going to be able to go for walks. You can still take the dog out and all these things. So you'll you'll not going to be totally housebound unless wanted symptomatic butts in the countryside that probably masses less but I guess part of me goes you know what you're not being told education's important you're not being told it gets out of school. We do have good public health advice in this country and it was in Your House. I would say keep kids going to school because you are kicking off the moment where it will become unavoidable. And you'll have to do some false home thing for many weeks. Yeah and and that's GonNa be really really tough so I think you're right. You're lucky I feel like I keep saying. I know I'm lucky. I'm lucky in all kinds of ways but I'm lucky but I'm still vulnerable and we're all still vulnerable. We're all going to have a rough time so I think if you can possibly make like easy yourself as individuals. I don't think that's an irresponsible thing to do. I hope you know by the time you put this together and send it out. I may look. I don't think I'm GONNA look ridiculous about this but the schools may well be closed. You know they may close them soon. But as long as the road pen I would say prioritize education and the most the hands when they come home. All right that makes sense. You Know Annoy Zeljko Family Dispute. Like if you want to win the argument with your white you can edit this out and just tell the. I agreed with you. I'm not going to get involved in that. Yeah well I'm obviously I'm going to do that but No this is very good. I mean it would be great to have you at the end of the line to settle a number of other disputes swell toilet seat down. Yeah that kind of thing I mean. Come on this. The dishwasher door is just constantly open and she herself tripped over it today and I had to really stop myself from just saying you see. That's no good is it? So what about closing it every now and again? Anyway I didn't Lost question one pattern. The I've been seeing with a lot of my friends is that parents are just sort of in denial. All they that just going. Oh It's a lot of fuss isn't it? I mean we'll be fine. It's the fluke on everyone staying at home. Everyone's come my mom is somewhat in that camp. She lives down in reading. Where out here in Norfolk? But I wonder I feel like should I be trying to convince to come and stay with us and keeping her safe heroes? That just going to be extra problems. No because you kids. I think you get to reevaluate that but suppose that I think in the UK we all particularly good at having these slightly meaningless interactions where we go. It's all GonNa be fine. Oh it's a little silly isn't it and we've got all these sort of conversational tics allow us to get through a good moments. Am I suspect sunny with my parents when I find him this evening and said I'm I'm worried about you? The compensation was different rights. The dangerous that you make a lecture and then everyone puts up barriers right. Yes I just sort of said to be worried about you and of course parents don't want you to worry. I think that's the thing I realized having a child now is the I. I want him to be okay. If he says to me Ghanem worried about you. I wouldn't so I want to reassure him but I want to discuss it and I feel like that's probably the thing we should be saying. And then you'll mumble go. You know what actually I am a little worried and then you've got the foot in the door to going. Look give it a few days. See how you doing. If you'll feeling vulnerable we can always come in the car and get you. But will. Then she's come into your house with people kids at school more chance of getting but you're all together so that's a bit. That's a bit nicer. So these the things you juggling you know not necessarily easy for everyone to have them on my home for long period of time so I think you. There's no right or wrong thing. I suppose everyone should be trying to solve their problems in a way that works for them. Remember you get tomorrow. You can get up and have another conversation with someone that change your mind. That's that's the thing you can reevaluate it. Can I did then if another question? I suppose there was what one thing I can say which Say Mama thing show. I think there is a kind of hopeful thing that this will pass the nature of epidemics is that they do and whether we have a I live in a second wave eventually this will be and I think we will avoid the second way. So there's a moment where life will get back to normal and most people will have lost loved ones but we will survive and people do grow from these experiences. We POST TRAUMATIC STRESS. But we also get punched matic growth and people can manage these things so. I suppose a bit of me goes there. Is this chance to look our relationship with travel with bombing with animals. With the way that we treat the planet those are the things that cools the virus to trump. Bryant are come out of animals because of intensive animal farming the Kozlov destruction of ecosystems because of global warming bass. What's driving these pandemics? We have a moment where we can say. What this reminds us solve is the value of human contact. How much we all need a hug? Like nitty we're going to be a nation without hugs from it while I'm not going to be very tough and so we reaffirm how we love people get to reaffirm how much we should be treating the planet with a bit more respect and treating animals well. Those things can be really good that we end up growing as a species as species without wanting to sound too about it so I feel sound pessimistic and I think it will be bad. Everyone should take it seriously. People should be prepared for `isolation. That's the Governor Pat Price Latian probably more than managing. There was a light at the end of the tunnel. This a lot of light at the end of the tunnel. I think okay back outside on my walk with dog and the deserted fields of East Anglia on a beautiful evening as the sun goes down. The Sky is very blue and it's extremely quiet. No planes in the sky and what would normally be the rural distant roar of the rush hour. Traffic is just always SPA. It's all very much like a weird dream sequence at the start of an episode of the Sopranos. Anyway you just heard an edit of my first conversation with Dr Zonda Van Toolan from Monday March Sixteenth. Just to remind you the following Friday. The schools closed and at the end of that weekend lost Sunday as I speak. I skype with Zonda once again for a catch up corona chat about how the country and also the residents of costs will buckles where responding to the crisis. He hello that's about how you doing. I'm good how are you yeah? I'm alright I'm alright have been. I'm self isolating some Paulie. I'm feeling better than I have done for for a few days which is good. When did you start feeling? Poli so finish the shoot maybe Thursday mid day and then we headed into the edit to sort of have a look at things and I was GonNa Watch it. What sort of everything they'd gods and then just still no fitting tied. I think I'll go home and then go home and felt really really really shattered then By Friday night at attempt shifts. That's nine which is not as high as it could be but still makes you feel terrible. Of course I'm telling you this is if this sort of the Hydra of having coded nineteen when I've no idea. I have an an myself cold but of course then I'm on my own. I'm getting very sorry for myself. I'm very anxious about. She's fighting all the people. I'm worried that I'm going to end up on a ventilator or need events later is going to be one my brothers away so then I ended up ceding rather typical inside and so then the weekends a bit slow by getting a lot better now. Okay good that is the thing I I wonder like. If people do feel ill I mean nothing except a proper. Corona virus test is going to put their mind at rest. Is I mean you? You'RE NOT GONNA get it and think. Oh there we go. I've I've had it now so I go back to normal and just wonder about in fact anyone or be infected no. It's strange how much I would like a test and I think before I got poorly. I thought well you know it doesn't actually affect your management very much. It's hard to test very warm so everyone just has to follow this guidance and this is very sensible public health. What we're being told to do. But as soon as you start to feel symptomatic you get very anxious around. You gets very anxious. You know you're told it can come and go temperature down you think all will maybe it will come back and you're reading all these reports of doctors dying and stuff like this and so Yeah test would be very nice. Yes anyway listen. I wanted to check in with us on because we spoke one week ago and it feels as if a lot has changed especially in the UK this time last week. I was asking you if you thought I should continue to send my children to school because I'd been online reading. Lots of stuff listening to podcasts. From people saying this is serious. It's time to practice social distancing as much as you are able to do. Don't wait for people to announce an official lockdown if you stay home and if you are able to take your children out of school do it so me and my wife were having fraught conversations about what we should do especially as we were the only people that we knew who seem to be thinking along those lines and it seemed a bit extreme and the children were reluctant to stay out of school especially my two sons who are in the the GNC and a level years and you know my son in his level year is not going to see any of those people again assuming. The schools don't reopen before September And so this is it. You know all these children. Suddenly the whole drama of moving onto the next stage in their lives is suddenly evaporated and they can't have their big parties and farewells and all the the rituals of leaving school and so they were saying. You've got to let go but you've gotta let there's no reason for us staying out of school and we were saying well look we don't want to get it and also we don't want to give it to other people. We don't want to be part of a culture that is making it possible for the virus to spread in the UK. The way that it has done in Italy we don't want to find out that because we would just lagging behind where in exactly the same spot as the Italians in a few weeks you know with those horrific scenes in the overcrowded hospitals. And it's just a disaster area and it seemed as if the government was coming round to that way of thinking I don't know if they'd been pressurized or if they just looked at the data in a new way but sure enough by the end of the week the schools were closed. And now how are you feeling about everything? How are you feeling about the government's position now because correct me if I'm wrong but last week when I spoke to you last? Us citizens you were saying. Well if I was you I would let your children go to school. And the economic aspect of this crisis is significant as well and to the extent that people are able to carry on with their normal lives as much as possible. We should try and do that. How do you feel about all now? Yes what I thought about the bucks from household as that was announced wondered if it would be a a nice case if I told you to somebody. I wasn't exactly sure how. The Prime Minister announced a plan to your family debate. I suppose my logic walls. You are all going to have to sell vice light prepared of Tom. I think I I did feel like it was likely the schools would close and that will be very difficult when it happens for. Lots of families and probably setting mine would be no exception. I imagine yours any household finds that difficult and so I felt like as long as you were able to take the pressure off fuel cells for as long as possible. You should probably do that and I think I guess. My sense of the week is that there are sort of two parallel. Things happening one. Is that the government is unrolling effectively. A fairly long standing conduct. Plant that in the Department of Health and social care and public health England and all sorts of other labs and universities and places where they studied this stuff and the group that prepares for this. Everyone has been aware that at some point in our lifetimes that will be a pandemic and there are plans on how to deal with this and so the government has rolled out a series of escalating changes that have definitely required a lot of short term very rapid detail work and have been driven by new data over the coast the week but also that would not unexpected right like. I don't think I felt that the schools wouldn't close. I just felt that you should probably wait until you're told that your kids out school. We say Yes yes well both talking in terms of what is probably going to happen this Friday right so so I think yeah it was it was it was imminent. Wasn't it so what you've got filtered through the man? Politics of Westminster is escalating plan. That is being gradually explained to a public who including me who had just reeling from every single day that changes in our lives that are extraordinary and some people are reacting by fully panicking and screaming. We should close the parks. We should close the churches. We should close everything down everyone should have that Dullsville the and other people are going. The last thing we should do is that this virus defeat us and then as much people in the middle worried but I liked the government has tried to introduce these measures over fairly short period of time but hasn't been dumped them all out at once in a way that I think is pretty sensible and so I guess I look at it and go then there is this commentary that says if you're going to close the schools one day we're not close the midday early. You know it takes a huge amount of adjustment for people to do things like clothes all the pubs and restaurants in the entire country. The idea that it has happened over. The course of the week is extraordinary. And so I know I I mean you're not sat there screaming at images of people gathering on beaches still ongoing. What the Hell Are you doing? You're dooming us all. I guess I feel like righteous indignation is most delicious emotion right. Yeah and of course I want to indulge it when people are tweeting these cues of the people in the supermarkets. You know the jam-packed and everyone's gone to Snowdonia and the Australians role in Bombay Channel. These things meeting. Oh it's so easy to indulge in this sort of how you killing my parents with your irresponsible behaviour but what we are asking people to do is not just not go to the beach. It's completely reimagined. How their lives are and we're also asking a huge number of people to give up their sources of joy de sources of income and most people in the UK are in at least half the people in the UK in a somewhat financially precarious situation. And so I think to do that over the week when I look at the twitter country especially stuff today. Then if you've read about this topic dominant Cummings to Italy old people. That old feels like Westminster Bullshit. It is all just flapping bollocks all the stuff about every new study that comes out and says this going to be a million that always in the street and other stuff. What is very clear? Is the planet step poised for a reason that is a plan and is being rolled out with some fairly rapid adjustments based on data and based on multiple good models and that the NHS will be overwhelmed and it won't be for a very long period of time and capacity is being increased and that is probably the one area where I think? Gosh it's very hard to see how they've screwed up getting enough mosques and things that they say does early on the doctors nurses and the other healthcare support staff. Maybe more importantly have been let down by that. Yeah but I think the idea that the NHL wasn't going to be overwhelmed at some point was very hard to imagine. There was no possible way. We could build this level of capacity that we needed and the amount of time when we'd start this an even if we had the number of lives that that would save is not an enormous number. Now isn't to say we shouldn't be doing it but the government is sensibly trying to strike a balance between going. We know this disease will kill sut number people if it's allowed to spread a certain rate and Stein at domino allows set number of those lives to be saved but also the chief medical officer Chris Witty and his team know as well as anyone in the world. The health effects of extreme poverty and financial catastrophe which all massive right there so massive. And so I think that doing a reasonable job of trying to go with GONNA kill people with this massive closure of everything. Excuse disruptions to life you know. I don't know much about the economics but I think the stimulus is pretty welcome. That's the sense like that. Just trying to oscillate between the deaths from those two things and I guess I feel like at the moment that doing a reasonably sensible job. The death rate is probably not nearly as high as some of the studies. Imagine it to be when you look at the cruise ships for instance the death rate despite a very vulnerable population the cruise ships that some of the places. We have imagined a really good denominator like of how many people this number of people died and we don't really know the total number of infected people in many places we don't have enough tests and those may well be quite country-specific quite strain specific and so on and so there is reason to believe that the death rate is not as high as lots of studies the same and so if you imagine the death rate is say less than one percents then by altering the NHS you'll to shave a fraction of a fraction of one percent. Now those are my parents. Is THE PROBLEM BURIED? Matt Fraction of one percent. This possibly. I am possibly any the sauce so we should be worried about that. But in terms of the very global big picture that has to be balanced against be economic catastrophe. And can you foresee twelve months from now? Some people are going to be looking back and going well. That was a massive overreaction on the hull and actually the lockdown measures proved to be far more disastrous than the actual virus would have been if it had been just allowed to play through the population. Do you think anyone's going to be saying that. Yeah it's interesting. It's GonNa be very hard to do because in the same way you know that there have been several studies. Michael Mama I'm from. Ucla who studies the health effects of inequality and poverty recently published a paper on the deaths caused by austerity. Very controversial is very very hard to prove that politicians people or that it killed a specific person whereas will be able to say Karen. Avars killed my mum. And so you've really got it in feel mom. I mean the mother stays on course. It was funny because it started quite poignant this morning and then we remember the other day. The mother's not forgotten children. Oh messed up in some about recrimination about that but anyway so yeah. I think we're going to get footage of dead doctors that healthcare workers of all kinds we going to get people being turned away from hospital and be Austin home. People will be filming that on their cell phones and for the next twelve weeks. We are going to see some very very very strong. Stop in the news about the failure of the health service to fully meet everybody's needs and that is going to be set against a sort of you know. Well I lost my job and might pub con oaten which is always going to seem more flippant but think in a year's time we're going to see this really complex balanced play. I say probably at six months time. We're going to be people begging to lift the restriction and going yes. A lot of people have died but we're not looking at a total decimation of the population with not looking massive numbers of debts. And of an in the meantime my life is never going to recover. Unless I'm allowed to open my business get well. The government was talking about this kind of roller coaster curve this strategy that seemed to be a of relapsing remitting model of infection whereby distancing measures are relaxed for a period during which more people would go out go back to normal become infected and then when the NHS is at peak capacity again the restrictions come back in for a few more weeks and so on that that's it up and down model of infection and restriction over the next. I don't know six months nine months or something like that. Do you get the sense that that's a realistic strategy. Yeah I mean I. It's hard to see how they could do anything else. Because I think they're going to be desperately trying to balance these two things to try and run a health service. You know people still going to get cancer. They're still gonNA have heart attacks. They're still going to fall over home. And so they're going to be desperately trying to run health service that can function alongside an economy that functions. Basically you're trying to adjust the the acceptability of the intervention and it's health fats. And so you just turning things up and tiny things down a little bit as it sort of goes along but the buyers isn't GonNa go away. I think is the problem so yeah in the end. The very very difficult thing is even with intensive care. Large numbers of people are going to die. That's augument to not do anything. But it does mean that you're having to bury Kathy way out the costume both sides. I guess the central point. I'm trying to make his all. The commentaries seems to act as if there was never a plan made it all up in the last week and they haven't thought it through and actually. I think having met the team I guess since we last spoke I went into the parliament of health and Social Care. Chris with you didn't formerly interview him into the Harry's he's the deputy chief medical officer how to chat with some other people and I worked in academics in different places in the world's where people off floundering out of control and they always say they've got things under control and seeing people when they haven't they all going through that plan that professionals. They know what they're doing. I had no sense that they were found. Okay that may be. Sounds like me bit of Bullshit Intuition. Ron like hey don't worry. I went into the billions and will sounds fine. And it's like well they could just be putting a good face on it but they do know what they're doing and it would be mad to think that they don't you know they have a lifetime of what Chris he's worked all over the world in loads of different epidemics. He's well well. Well aware everything that the opinion pieces of saying yes. Do you know what I mean. Yes how did the news? I'm curious about your house because everything's changed in the last week. Bu How did the school closures play out? And how is it going for you like you're trying to manage as well as everyone else? Yes although we're in a very fortunate position out here in many ways of isolated we can go for walks and not really bump into people and as I said to you before I think my routine when I'm at home is fairly solitary anyway. So you know there hasn't been that much disruption for me as far as a normal days concerned but I'm already feeling the strain as far as being a husband and a parent and the whole school closures thing. The fact that I felt strongly that the schools should have already closed and we had to wait another week before they did so. That was tricky and I really am. I'm not the kind of person that can just go in and say look. This is what's happening. It may be right. May Be Tough Shit. You gotta live by it. And that's the end of the story. I'm just like well I don't know I mean maybe I don't know I feel as if you probably shouldn't go into school but if you really really want to and you feel you're not going to see your friends for a while. I can understand that. Maybe you can go in for a bit but don't touch anyone. Don't hug anyone and you know it was alarming. When we heard stories about my son's friends ringing out and saying Yemeni you coming in tomorrow. We're all GONNA go out for a drink and a big celebration and say goodbye and I was like no. That's not what you're gonNA fucking do So that was you. Stop them doing that. Yes no my wife was as usual a little bit more coherent eventually we compromised with a targeted swoop with my wife driving them in for a couple of hours to say goodbye on Friday after they hadn't been at school for a few days is that was the thing before they actually officially closed the schools. They were happy to stay off. You know they were like Oh yeah but then when they realized Oh Shit. The schools are going to close and then going to be opened again for a while and in fact. It doesn't look as if we're going to serve out our time there as or a level students. We're not going to be able to say goodbye. So then it got a bit more urgent and then the whole exam thing came down. That was very I mean. Still is very surreal so many questions thrown up by that and what life is going to be for this generation of a going to always be tagged as a co vid generation who will be entitled to. Special treatment when it to their grades and special consideration Or is it just tough luck? Part of me thinks wow you know. I've always kind of thought exams. Where a load of Shit Anyway? And they weren't really a brilliant indication of a person's ability They maybe for some people but not for everyone at all. You know so. I don't know this is just another random factor but it's been really odd. All that stuff is being thrown up just in such a short space of time and then on top of it. You've got more trivial concerns about how you all interact in the house. You know and things you get annoyed by and usually under normal circumstances. Everyone gets time apart. Everyone goes off to school and you can decompress there or I go off to work or my wife goes to London or whatever every few days. There's some release valve you know. And now all that's being taken away so for someone like me who's quite a silly immature and petty man a lot of time it's potentially dangerous and A series of constant adjustments are having to be made. And I'M HAVING TO UP MY APOLOGY. Game fairly massively. I think if you cannot your poaching and that's that's probably for all of us. Pretty good is so interesting. He described that because you are describing the full describing a nightmare for everyone right like everyone is just throwing the situation that literally. Nothing in our lifetime has prepared score so the two things that I really noticed this week. That are trying to organize my thoughts for this film and around being ill and things like that so. I guess the two things one is the government is asking us all to do this. Stuck on this a ton of rules that will follow the rules already. Complicated like Humana. Stay away from people if you have symptoms which involve diagnosing yourself with the temperature aurigny persistent cough which sounds easy. But I'm Dr and I was like I don't have a moment to but now I need to call but yeah I don't know. Is it a new position? Call Right. You've been talking to me. I don't know if it's persistent on our of couple of times. It sounds pretty bad to me. It's sorry to say the problems that we're all being given us sort of handed to us by the government saying you have to uphold these rules and things like if you live alone yourself islip seven days if you have symptoms but if you live with other people use self isolate for fourteen days unless someone else in the house gets symptoms after seven days of self-isolation which case they have to do a further seven days for everyone else only has to fourteen minutes like this is really hard and there are loads of people in the UK who desperately about saving all the people and that very hard to understand that. We don't want to stop this. We just WANNA slow it and so people are feeling enormously guilty about doing it wrong enormously. Angry and other people who they see breaking the rules when they're making so much effort and this volume is invisible and everything that comes into your house could be contaminated. You only need a few hundred. Maybe a few thousand viral particles to get you infected making kind of luck anywhere and drift around in the air and so so this this sort of desire that we all hit to a new set of rules that we joined a new religion with a load of mad rituals and the set of washing ceremonies. Now we have to sing. We wash all these kind of thing and that's giving a soul of mindset of guilt and blame and I think that is really divisive in a household where everyone has different agendas. Because you'll kids understandably want to go and see their friends not massively important their mental health no wellbeing. Physical health isn't a risk. Your physical health is to at risk but it's different to them and your mental health is endangered when dad going out and spending around pops doing the wrong thing so we all want to control it but none of us can do it perfectly so I guess one of the things that I'd say really strongly no one should feel if you'll start piling hand jalen selling a piece on the street corner for thousands of pounds but in general if people are struggling with this new regime and struggling to adjust. Let's give them a bit of a break. Let's try and help them rather than screaming at them. Yes can I just pick you up on on on a very tiny thing when you said the particles drift around in the APP? That's not the same as saying that it's airborne so if someone coughs need you on the street and there's a little missed and that drifts into your face then you could catch it so it's not very good but it is a bull. It's carried by air over short distances. Yeah exactly so you can in other words. I'd have to touch you to catch it from right. And if all even a bedroom hacking away and you come in to bring me a cup of tea that will be an aerosol of particles of dried out cost that floating around with viral particles on them and so this is not to make people feel frightened. But just to say you can't you can't stop it. You can't do it perfectly you then so catholocism there's a sin of scrupulousness so for studiously adhering to the rules that you forget. The general point is to be nice to people not to worry about everything else. The Bible says yes and in the same way with this. It's like the general point is keeping a distance. Wash your hands. Limit your social contact rather than going. That guy in the puck got a hundred and ninety three centimeters away from me. You know I think I mean it's very like the situation you're describing lucky enough and everything is really hard right kids. Think they don't WanNa go to school but actually kids love school. They just don't like necessarily doing work. It's think one exams but those nurses sensual rite of passage that people need. And so you know you. Kids are literally changing their identities of who they are and what Johnny Depp Pentagon their entire future that was mapped out. Pretty Clini is now like just a void. Yeah and I think it's very hard especially for my fifteen year old to stop himself from just blaming us because we're the people that are you know we other people that are enforcing these measures. Essentially he's not watching the news and saying oh well. This is what Boris Johnson told me to do. This is what mom and dad have said so. As far as he's concerned we are just the biggest ship bags in the entire world and now he's got to spend the rest of his summer with these shit bags and it's pretty. It's pretty dark but you'll being the prime minister in the in your house. Certainly between you you and your wife you are to some people they're gonNA go on. Never GonNa stop going to the pub. Essential or more to the point. They're going to say a never gonNA stop driving my van. I'm never going to stop running my shop because that's my livelihood and I have to or I'm never going to stop seeing my grandchildren and there are other people who can be more compliant than just trying to dial up the Macias to get enough people to change their behavior. But yes everyone's going to have a bit differently. I mean it sounds to me like you're actually doing very good job with an impossibly difficult situation and if you said to me actually. It's all running really smoothly. I would just suspect that you were on drugs. I'm certainly not the Prime Minister Castle buckles by the way I am. I'm the Minister for entertainment. It's my job to lineup new. Bits of stuff to watch and my wife is currently not very happy with my performance. We've come to the end of Vikings She's tapping her watching saying. When are you going to come up with something to replace Vikings and so far? It hasn't gone that well could be with the prospect of a reshuffle. Indeed yeah I think my seventeen year old son is rapidly becoming more qualified in that department but he he likes things with subtitles though. And that's going to be a tough sell for the rest of the house. Do you think I mean one of the things that everyone loves? Dishing OUT ADVICE THEIR STRUCTURE. Your Day Structure Day appreciate have schedule. Friendship by muscular amendments apart have you tried to impose that or is it realistically with the range of ages and interests and frustrations onto the roof. Is it just about navigating around the worst dangers? We are thinking about like Shit. We we probably do have to introduce some sort of formal structure to our days. Otherwise it'll just degenerate. We'll just get ill because we're so. Unfit and tensions will fly so yes. We are cautiously starting to say. Well look you guys have to step up a bit more as far as Cleaning the house doing chores and also exercise. You know we have to. You can pick when you do it but you you have to do at least half an hour a day It doesn't matter what you do as long as you're doing something it's so hard for the army might. My son lives in western Canada. He's meant to be here this week. And instead he's in Canada. So that was kind of heartbreaking for me and he was a bit disappointed though to pretty well and he took it well because he just went. Look we've saved the money we can spend the money on the next hold the even. Yup even better hold on. I'm so proud of his like positive attitude and then he went on to say. I think all this stuff about this viruses elated nonsense. And it's all over plan and identify what we're worried about. You understand your grandparents might die. And he couldn't. His way of coping was also his flipping. Irritating of spunk. Eleven year oldness. And you couldn't fix one without destroying the other but even then I was checking with his mom about her mom. Who's very ill and I said at the. He's he's dropping just on the IPAD. He's playing on his computer on checking with his mom. I said you listen to any of this like you have to at least help with. Laundry is three buttons on the Machine. Learn how to do the laundry. Yeah Yeah Okay Okay I go. I just couldn't work out. This is his way of protecting himself. He's probably anxious but he's covering it up and pretending snow. He's also very lazy about doing laundry. I just felt like it was obvious that he should step up. Yeah not like it was gonna be impossible to make. I think though I have to keep reminding myself that it's always this way with any significant change to the routine and sometimes very often. I have backed away from changes. I knew that it would be good to introduce to the household because I just couldn't face the amount of whining and moaning but actually even though there has been resistance to even things like just eating meals together more than we used to. You know. Initially it's long too but it's fine. There's a period of adjustment feels very painful and annoying where you just think God. Is this really worth it with everyone being in such a bad mood? But everyone is usually fine after obey. Obviously I don't know if that's going to be the same for every family but certainly with mine. It feels like basic thing that you you're saying is massively important. Just patients of going. It will bed down. It will settle in. It's going to take your bedtime wait. Continue imagining owner Lord. Her Hey welcome back. That was Dr Zahn. Fantastic talking to me. That I'm very grateful for his time and reminded that he can be reached on twitter at zoned. Vat X. A. N. D. V. T. That's his handle. I'm not on twitter at the moment. Well I haven't been for a long while. I got out of the habit while I was writing my book and then I thought well maybe I won't get back into the habit. It seems like a good time just to carry on. Not Being on the to keep anxiety levels manageable look podcasts. I am lining up a selection of delicious waffles for you over the next few weeks. Some of those conversations will be again recorded remotely for obvious reasons. Others will be conversations that I recorded before. The Corona virus pandemic The next one. I think I'M GONNA put out is with daisy haggard. She's very funny. Comedian actor writer. Uh An old friend of mine and I thought like several of the skype conversations I have in the forthcoming weeks will be with old friends. Some probably at some point going to cool up Joe hornbills Cornish Louis THROUGH TASH. Dimitri you and people like that too Waffle with so. I'm not going to go on too much now. I'm going to go back home and carry on editing my conversation with daisy so that I can put that out for you in the next sometime in the next week or so and then do my best to keep them coming regularly. They're often and probably in those episodes. I will be bollocking on quite a bit about the fact that I have finally finished my fucking book. Although my timing was clearly not the best as far as it actually coming out and being published that will probably not happen now until the autumn assuming everything is somewhat back to normal by then. Obviously that goes from my book tour as well. Those dates of being resheduled. But I'll keep you abreast before then though I think what's going to happen. Is that the Audio version of my book is going to be available. I'm recording it at the moment in my little voice booth nutty room at home. I am trying to put together a few extra jingles and bits of music and put some bells and whistles on that stupid old Boston for you and so hopefully that will come out sometime next month. April April. But look. That's it for this episode. I hope you're okay in these difficult to dock and uncharted waters. Join A hug have to. I assure you it's perfectly safe. Come on yeah. It's GONNA be Christmas. Podcast time with Colin Bowles. Before you know it thanks very much indeed once again to Zonda fantastic face time. Thanks very much indeed to shameless Murphy Mitchell for his production skills. Thanks to eight cost for keeping this show on the road and thank you very much indeed for listening take care and until next time we meet which will be shortly view Them up on the new talk.

Your House government UK Boris Johnson Zonda NHS prime minister Dr Zonda Van Toolan medical officer Matt Fraction London Chris Witty twitter Italy Chris Buxton
EP.117 - DAISY HAGGARD

The Adam Buxton Podcast

1:12:43 hr | 8 months ago

EP.117 - DAISY HAGGARD

"I did one more gye. Podcast bend now. You have that cost out and started listening. I took my microphone. Found some humor but then I recalled it all the noises while I name as at Buxton I want you to enjoy. That's the fine. Hey how you doing pod Cats Adam Buxton here just out Taking my exercise break with my friend I am allowed to leave the castle for exercise as long as there are no people. There's no one out here. I seen anybody except my wife. My my kids and my dog friend for about a week now just to maybe a bit more than a week in fact. Actually though that's not true I saw tracy the post woman posts person post operative. No that's not right tracy who delivers the mail. I saw her from a distance but she waved. It was nice to see you but listen. I hope you'll physically well or not too bad anyway and mentally coping with lockdown life tech. Nobody actually there's several techno buds off nice to see them. It's cold out here. Rosie's up ahead. She doesn't cash. He's got her thick. Khotan saving Nice Bounce but it is very parkey. It's not last week. It was alternative wit and summary. And Balmy. Almost now. It's got pretty biting. It was snowing here yesterday. Buckles family role. Okay as far as I'm aware however I am unhelpfully hyper aware of every single thing. My Body's doing from moment to moment imagine I'm not the only one I've got an ache. What's the ache is in a normal acre feverish ache? Oh what a bit of a pain when I breathe in that have I always at normal? Oh is that a normal cough or is it a dry cough? I don't know my view is I am normally like that anyway. What else have I been doing to keep myself occupied pot from eating I'll tell you what I've been doing. I've been listening to Tim keys. Late night poetry programme on. The BBC sounds APP so good thing number one which took me awhile to get hold of with the BBC sounds APP which is sort of an I play For your listening device or phone or whatever. It enables you to stream or download programs from the BBC archives. So you can go pretty far back. You can do searches for people who are interested in. I did a good Grayson Perry search and found lots of good programs that he'd been in and I did a tim key search and realized that. I'd never actually heard his program late night poetry program which he's been doing for years now. I think I think it's series five. That's currently going out third episode this week Wednesday evening nine. Pm Radio full and if you haven't heard it it. The earlier episodes were fifteen minutes and he would do more poems in those. Don't think he's doing to any actual poems in the more. Recent episodes too difficult one to describe especially. If you don't know tim key stuff Scott Tim key in it he plays kind of psychotic version of himself and Thome Bastin is in it and he also plays a a weird version of himself. Casey wicks is in it although she plays a character. Lots of good people in it. It's a Sitcom I suppose in that each episode is some sort of situation but really the thing is the actual words and the way they are delivered is just very funny and we. We actually sat down and listened to a couple of episodes with the whole family. At the dinner table. It felt like the forties or something families sat round the gramophone. This need to a comedy. Radio Graham and then watching the prime minister's speech about the lockdown. Anyway look let me tell you about podcast episode one hundred seventeen which features a rambling conversation with actor and writer. Daisy Haggard. You will have seen daisy on TV. Mainly in comedic roles on shows like man stroke woman green wing episodes with Matt Leblanc and more recently breeders on sky. One with Martin Freeman. Haven't seen that yet lost year two thousand nineteen daisy starred in the brilliant BBC. Comedy drama back to life playing. Mary mattison a woman returning a woman returning home off to eighteen years in price on the show was also written by daisy along with comedian. Laura Solon my comb sation with daisy was recorded using an audio only link via skype though If there any techniques listening I should point sal little I didn't actually recall the skype fade. Instead I recorded using my mic. This end as he used a separate digital recorder her end and then sent me the fall in kind. I spoke with daisy a few days before the UK went into its current state of lockdown. That's why daisy refers to her. Build a friend Dave coming round to do a job for an elderly neighbor. F- When we first started speaking she had to go and let Dave in not something she would be doing now unless Dave was standing a long way away. Wearing a plastic suit with a broom held arm's length to ensure that he was always two meters away. It was very nice to speak. Today's who as you will hear. I have known for Awhile since we work together on a legendary Sitcom that We spoke about towards the end. And then just talk a load of nonsense before that back at the say goodbye but right now with daisy haggard. Here we go average contract. How you feeling though daisy? Are you someone that looks on the bright side in these situations or do you get very easily depressed? I mean no I definitely a bright side But I mean I I mean this is. This is a big. Shell shock one isn't it? I'm wearing at the beginning of it as the very very very very beginning. Hence the fact that Dave the builder's still is able to go into my back through the back door and get himself a cup of tea which does all right. He's not being in that one's going in that may take. You made them much more fault. I will always make things explicit if I've given a tiny tiny challenge but no I am. Yeah we're at the very beginning of it so I spent the last week feeling a bit. Shell shocked and trying to sort of pull things together to try and make the housework for children under five and then I am just really. I am just desperate to try and see the positive in anything positive. We can see because they will be a lot of negative and a lot of sadness so yeah I think hi. I'm determinedly getting to be optimistic about how we deal with it and let's see I left. I've got some wine so that will help. Not Now not now. 'cause it some ten eleven. Yeah but generally yeah wait till mid day wait till mid day. Yeah what time is it appropriate to start drinking? What time is it appropriate to start drinking times? That's the question I think is it. Apple Rolls is an apple Christmas rules. That is my question over. We all just go completely mad if we do that. Do you think Christmas rules are the same as airport rules? Well actually no. I have to say airport rules. Are I think maybe different Christmas carols apples I will be like? Oh that's not Mary. I don't care what time it is like. If you go and you get an early morning flight somewhere archie. No I could do it but if I was child. Free on a plane. I feel like apple rules. Well the country getting to midnight so just because it's quite fun isn't it? I'm not going to be able to the next few years. Yeah that's right. I mean this is. This is another thing I I've got A. You've got to stop me from kind of dragging everything toward a kind of depressing negative place but one of the things that it's hard to ignore is the whole issue of climate change with this situation. You know one of the reasons that the pandemic was able to take hold and and the virus was able to spread was because of the ease of travel that we have and the international travelers and also the the extent to which there is so much unnecessary travel. People just take it for granted like yeah fuck it. We'll we'll go to stag weekend. We're going to get on a plane and you know the weird thing about the climate change situation is that it's unfolding so slowly but actually it's really no less of an emergency. You know if you pull back and look at it in wide screen and we sort of need to respond to it with as much urgency as we are to in a way I mean this is sort of responding to. It isn't it. Isn't that the one thing that we can sort of hope for? Is that like when I lay awake through the night last night. Panicking about if I'd have to remortgage our house to try and get all. The jobs cancelled for the foreseeable. I then was like if I'm lying awake at night. The moment worrying and I thought I'M GONNA Mansion they've fish back in the canals in Venice and I can just imagine the fact that the earth is getting a little bit. She's having a breeder. Yeah you know and the fact that there are no planes in the sky. And I'm just going to sort of try and focus on that. Yes econ and I mean you would hope the takeaway would be that people would realise at the end of this that. Actually there's a lot we can do without and there's a lot that's more important. Yeah exactly but I think more likely and more depressingly the possibility is that people will just snap back to their old routines as soon as they possibly. Can you know I do? Yes but I feel like it will fundamentally hopefully change some things. I all right in saying that your dad was or is your dad. Still with US. Yes he is and he is someone that worries a lot about the environment. He is excessively worried about the environment. And so I and I remember like bringing back on a date and my Like on a date. Why would you bring a boy on a date to your parents? House introducing a boy to my mom and dad and I saw that myself in. My mom had the hosepipe in the bath upstairs. The My dad was sucking siphoning the bathwater under the flowerbeds. And he's like Hello Dolly and I remember being both but actually that brilliant. I almost feel like we have some old tins of Sardines that twentieth through. They've always been my parents kind of part of I think. One of the key. Forces of love and bonding in their relationship is their resourcefulness in their desire to not be wasteful and they really sort of get a kick out of that together. Yeah and they passed that onto you do they. Did you resistance? But I think occasionally. I went really far the other way because we weren't allowed any plastic toys. All I mean. We were allowed plastic toys. But it is more like if you can get something from the jumble serve for twenty p then go but otherwise make your brain so I'm definitely not that I'm not as good as they are about things but I'm hoping this will kick in a bit better. Yeah because the waste involved with having children. Oh my God I'm such an old fought man who is crazy. They have th day parties and stuff like that and you see the amount of fucking useless dog. Shit that gets I wrote in to use the five year olds for you know thirty minutes on their birthday and so when they would blaze through all these plastic toys and bits of junk and stuff. I wouldn't throw them away. I would keep them all in a box in the shed and I was thinking exactly that one day I'm GonNa go and create a big sculpture out of all these plus. Maybe I'll arrange the mall according to the colors and it will be a kind of comment on our consumer society as well as being beautiful object and then my wife came and said what the fuck you holding these things in these boxes for well because one day. I'm going to do a sculpture. And she poured a lot of scorn on the idea. And then eventually you know because you could be doing that now and I also had big boxes of empty toilet rolls I just. I've still got those so there might be some will just for wiping. Yes I hasten to add that I was not stockpiling the toiler. The thing is that we already sort of worse stockpiles. So our technique was go to the supermarket. Not Very often but big loads. While we're there you know what I mean. Yeah and so I think I got a few dirty looks from people. The last time I did it although I wasn't I haven't been to the supermarket in the last couple of weeks but even the last time I went. I think some people were looking at me thinking well see doing stockpiling diet. Pepsi's I let my chops off my daughter and I had a box in the buggy filter tins. I hadn't brush my hair and I was pretty much wearing my pajamas. Which is my usual sexy. Look my pants and I was actually going to take that books to the Food Bank. I didn't like I was just anyone that looked like bike food bank like wage to ready twitch because I was so aware I looked like a completely crazy woman. Pushing books is obtained in the buggy instead of a child. But I was doing the right thing. But Yeah No. I'm somebody who is renowned for my friends as having a theory that my house should always be ready for a house party anytime worker or you have to feed people if they come round so I do. I've always had supplies because I've always wanted to be ready for fun at any moment and there's always been too much. Why not much to say. I'm in this position but then I I think my friends would be like. Hey t