3 Episode results for "Butch Otter"
Ep68 Commitments, Happiness, Love and Having Kids
"Welcome to wrestling with god. Show the podcast where we grapple with big questions about faith religion and life. I'm irish mcmahon. And i'm here with a catholic priest with a serious sense of humor. My friend and fellow irishman father len mcmillan hey fatherland hey irish you better show off your sense of humor today. Fatherland or my sense of humor is actually more on kind of comebacks and stuff like that. So all right. Well maybe it's maybe. I can supply something for you to come back to okay so so anyway father lin. We received an interesting request from a listener and he wants us to respond to an article that was published a while back in yahoo news. And it's about an interview. Howard stern conducted with the actor. Seth rogan and the interview focused on a question of whether or not to have kids. And why and the listener wants to remain anonymous. I'm not sure why. And he didn't explain why once away wants to hear our reaction to this so we can only guess but father lengths. Are you up for this. You betcha my anything all right. Well i think the best way to set this up for you and for our listeners is to play the conversation. I actually found the audio so play the conversation. That howard had with seth rogan it short. And so here goes. I was thinking about you and your wife. I don't know that you ever wanted kids or not. But i'm glad you you don't. I'm glad you don't have kids because you are into so many things in so many projects. I don't think you would be able to give the time to being a good father and nine for sure not Or or i wouldn't be able to do all this work that i like No it's one hundred people are always like it's something i think. I was uncomfortable answering this before. But they were like how do you do so much and like the answer is i. Don't have kids like if people like. How do you do pottery and write a book and make all these movies and tv shows. It's it's that. I don't have kids well because all of this to do all of this stuff requires a tremendous amount of time and self involvement. And you're right not that. Why put a kid through that. If you don't have time for a kid and lawrence down when this so right she's okay. We'll see i would say she wants kids less than i do like i talked into it. She's at nope. Would that have been a deal. Breaker in your romantic relationship. If she had really wanted a bunch of kids would it have been. That's the thing is. I could wrap my head around it but i think she's just like right ryan great. We have so much fun. Like i don't know anyone who gets as much happiness out of their kids as we get out of our non kids. We're all the time we're laying to ban on saturday boardings smokin weed. Like watching movies naked. Kids we could be doing well. There is no would whose child is giving the as much joy as we are right now getting because we do not have. It's not an easy hall kids and not be. You can't be narcissist. They you have to give yourself over to parenting. And they've got to be the priority that that does not sound fun to me and why there's enough kids out there all day so many more we need more people who looks at the planet right now. I think we need more people like a confounding thing to me. So further lynn. What are your thoughts. What what does god have to say about this question on my thoughts. Well okay for me to strange. The issue is really not about. Having kids would be my first reaction. The issue is that it's so sad that that interview was whether one should or should not have kids. I don't think that's the really big issue. Because to be honest. I choose not to have kids so i don't think god is saying you better have kids now. Actually i do. But i think god is asking us that our life be life giving so i yes i think obviously god wants us to have children but in the interview. I don't think that was the big issue. The problem is they're answer is framed in terms of the glory of the narcissistic life. Except says that white doesn't wanna have kids so that he can do anything he wants. I can sleep in bed and smoke weed or mentions going watching movies and even interview himself. Forget his name right now. Our our howard agrees and says yeah. If you have kids you can't be a narcissist and who wants that or that's the real shocking part for me. That's the real problem is not about having kids. it's this problem of narcissism it is really immature definition of happiness that to be free from commitments. And to live for yourself. That's what happiness is. That's what i find honest disgusting not even getting into the religious response i. There's this overwhelming evidence from years of study that narcissism doesn't lead to happiness that being free from commitments doesn't lead to happiness in fact commitments lead to greater happiness lack of commitments lead to greater unhappiness. And he supposed to be somebody who are kids. Look up to this. Seth in the. There's this great philosopher hannah art. She's amazing so at the end of world war two. She wrote a some incredible books. That were thought provoking. She actually did this whole profile on the nuremberg trials. So just amazingly brilliant woman jewish but in this one point. She says a lot of people define themselves by their feelings. But you'll never find yourself through your feelings because in ten years your feelings will be completely different. Just a lot of people trying to define themselves by their aspirations. I want to be an artist or great singer. That is not who you are. That's who you are aspiring to be in your aspirations. Don't show you who you are. What defines you is your commitments. That shows you who you are. And hannah says without promises we would never be able to keep our identities. We'd be condemned to wander helplessly without direction in the darkness of each person's lonely heart cotton all its contradictions and equivocations. So that's a little word he but she's absolutely right because this one guy said that there's brilliant he said since i've gotten married my wife is lived with five different men and all of them were me. The only reason why we stuck together is because of our promise to each other and he says. I wonder who i'd be without that. Promise he says. I'm not the person. I was in my thirties. On or on my forties or in my fifties. So who am i. I am my commitments. At my baptism. I made a commitment at my confirmation. I made a commitment at my wedding. I made a commitment each sunday. High make a commitment and he says sometimes. I didn't wanna stick with them sometimes. I don't want obligations. But who am i. If i don't follow through on my commitment. So the world will always say self fulfillment comes through. Being free of commitments. The truth says fulfillment comes after commitments. That's my real problem. With saf that he thinks fulfillment comes from being free of commitment. But there's been huge amounts of study on happiness and one of the necessary ingredients to get too happy. Is we need several ingredients but one is commitment leads to happiness and a lot of people with deep commitments. They always test out to be far happier in the in. These whole stays unhappiness. Basically when you're younger everybody's happiness is so so but when you pass sixty. There's a huge divide. there's no middle ground either. You're happy or you're bitter and the odd part is that they found out that. Wow if you keep with your commitments. You're more likely to end up with the people who are very happy until like just a little positive psychology. They did all of these studies. Which i love where they take two groups like one group. I'm gonna give you a couple examples. Those take him to this art store and say you can have. You can choose any piece of our work you want but once you choose to keep it for year and the other group they say you can choose any piece of artwork you want and if you're not happy you can come back and exchange it as many times as you want so after year. They test them out and ask them well. Were you happy with that piece of artwork. I loved it. Thank you so much. The ones that said you can always exchange it. There are always exchanging and after year. They said i really wasn't happy or they did this thing with jams letting people choose between three different types of gems or four hundred types of jams and oddly enough the ones that are now yelling. Get three choices. They liked the jams better. Too many choices lead to unhappiness and and so. I'm sorry. I got a little off track but freedom from commitment means you'll never be happy not being able to settle on. Something means not being settled ever so commitments. They found out in these studies of long-term stays in happiness commitments lead to happiness. You're always keeping your options open so you can do anything you want. You actually end up at unhappy. So somebody who doesn't want to commit to marriage or children and just for themselves. They always test out to be more unhappy. So my problem was. Seth is that he's advocating a life without commitment and unknowingly urging this younger generation away from being happy. It's it's kind of funny interview but it's terrible and what people long the most for is actually to give themselves away. People who make commitments doesn't matter how hard it is. They end up happy. And there's a strange story you know years ago in the london times. There's tiny advertisement that read. Men wanted for hazardous journey small wages bitter cold months of complete darkness constant danger safe return doubtful honor and recognition in case of success. And it's famous because this in this book on shackleton the shackleton expert expedition and that little advertisement drew five thousand applicants. Five thousand people apply only ca choose twenty-seven men to explore the south pole and it's great adventure book but eventually they did complete their expiration will is very painful and they were turn home to honor and recognition. So there's two types of people those who wanna receive an easy life. They tend to end up on the bitter end. And those who want to strive for something great and give themselves away which always demands a lot of commitment. They end up at happy so to me. This is where religion comes in christ offers us a challenge to strive to be come something great to make a sacrifice so crisis choose. The narrow path choosy easy way. Take up my cross and follow me. He's always advocating a sacrifice. My problem was seth is not about having children. It's his philosophy of life. That life is supposed to be easy rather than a great adventure. Life for seth seems to be about you know sitting in bed and getting high and not doing anything being free from any sense of obligation and then he has the nerve to call that happy when all the evidence overwhelmingly is no. That's on the the downslope to unhappiness. She's the type of immaturity or at worse. And the interviewer got it right. It's narcissism. I know it's it's interesting. It goes back to the old saying you know. It's better to give than receive. I mean what you're talking about is commitment really a commitment to achieving something in you. Were talking about giving life to something. There's a satisfaction in that that's much greater than feeling good in the moment and having constant pleasure like you were talking about the paintings. And and and. Seth refers to movies in weed in this kind of stuff. He's going to get tired of that. You know. I mean how many how many who's going to get the evidence is he's going to get bitter bitter then he can't keep making yourself happy with all this stuff right right. It's impossible. Yeah 'cause you can't satisfy yourself within the problem that rings a bell with me with that interview. Is you know the united states. I don't know if you know this. There's been studies. The united states is getting less and less happy. The average person has increased their spending in eating out and entertainment all that by twenty two percent but their income has come less. So they're earning less but they're spending more going out trying to be entertained and homes in that in twenty sixteen. Where thousand square feet. Larger that are nineteen seventy-three everybody's personal living space is just doubled. But the number of americans who are you know have better access to everything internet of social media our quality of life huge green. Tv's quality of life really has gone incredibly up. But here's the amazing part. Amid all these advances the average happiness is decreasing in the united states. So there's this general social survey that's taken every year so taking every year since nineteen seventy two and each year showing this gradual decline and happiness. So it's a rise of unhappiness and all these psychological studies social scientists surveys the history of philosophy and all five major religions in the world. All of them have said that pursuing happiness pleasure and free from commitments always end up in unhappiness. and so that's what really annoys me. I know i'm kinda strange about the seth interview. It's not really that irritates me about the children and why. I think this is religious. Is i don't think. Seth is obligated to have children as i said i don't want to have children. I don't even want to have a pet. Anyone have to cook for god's sakes if you taste my like i was kinda hoping to get cova just so i could lose my taste not happen. But here's the thing. But i am a man of commitments. I think the moral question is not should or should not people have kids. Moral questions is why one would not wanna have children. You know the more question is. But i want my life to be life-giving i just have to sacrifice my life. I remember the sixty minutes story about this woman. In the rhodesian genocide who chooses wealthy englishwoman and she employed hutus and hutus and to tease at her social part very wealthy and you know they they all mingled together and they thought she thought everything was fine and then this war broke out and she of course she's on. She sells everything. She's trying to escape to england and she comes across this barn of all these abandoned children and she's on the way the airport and she suddenly realized. I can't go i. I can't leave these children behind. She stayed in wrote rwanda and spent everything she had taken care of these orphans. And so you know. She has all these children and kind of barn. It was really moving story today. I gave up all my wealth. And i'd do it again. She's one who said she never wanted children and then ends up with all these children. I think the question is whether you want to be life-giving or not. And i don't get don't quote me on the facts but know our former governor butch otter okay. His mother's the governor of idaho by the way for people listening outside of idaho his mother. She amazed me. And i don't really i can't remember the numbers but her and her husband raised like maybe six kids. I'm making a shot. And they're empty nesters and they she said well. We have this huge house so then she became a fought. Her and her husband became a foster parents to like. I can't remember like i'm just gonna make up a number hundred kids fifty kids. I love the fact that this old couple. They just had to be life giving. But if you wanna be happy. Seth saying oh no you want to be free from all commitments or this other couple. Who just they're never met them but their son went to my parish and he He's from montana on the border near canada so he goes home to visit his parents. Elderly parents stays the night just to check on his elderly. Parents comes down to the kitchen in the morning and his mother's making breakfast and he says what's for breakfast inches quiet quiet. You'll wake up the canadians. And he said what do you mean. I'm going to wake up the canadians. And he says whether sleeping in the front room so she he checks in the front room and there's all these young men passed out in the front room so should wouldn't the canadians during passed out in the front room. And he said well said your father. And i were so worried. Because he's young men from canada would come down to montana to party and they would drive back. And i guess there's some deaths on the road so that so upset them. They let the bars. No that will leave our front door open. And you'll have a breakfast in the morning if you just stay at our house. Oh my gosh talk about lack of security like this crazy crazy old couple. That turn their house. They felt this sense of commitment. And let's say they never had children so it's not about having or not having children that disturbed me about that. It's this almost smearing humor of. Oh god we're not gonna be life-giving we're only gonna think of ourselves that's to me the part that's really discussing. It's not the fact that he doesn't wanna have children. I is i said i don't wanna have children. The moral question is why don't you want to his. His reasoning is that he wants to be self absorbed in free from commitment but we know with plenty of evidence that only leads to an unhappy life in so religion is not a way at looking at some things such as whether whether or not to have children. Religion in the big sense is a certain way of looking at everything. What kind of life do i wanna have. And i'm saying religiously his definition of why he doesn't wanna have. Children is a way of death and depression and bitterness one. Psychological study showed that children do not bring you happiness so i always joke about that with my friends because really the moment you have a child you know. There's years ago. My friends are own grandparents now but the moment you have a child you know all you get is a life of worry and then when you get grandchildren you start worrying about them like the moment so i just thought it was funny. Yes a psychological study showed that children did not bring about happiness but it does show that those people who want children test out to be more optimistic and happy people. Oddly enough depressed and negative people. They don't want children. Were you know you frame this in a hallway. I didn't expect you know i really. I guess i was kind of superficial thinking. This is about whether or not to have children. And does god want you'd have children and what you've really done here is made us think about what brings true happiness and what our life should be about this commitment to giving life and what that does i mean. It made me think my my little sister when she found out that my wife was pregnant with her third child she she said she said to a right away. You don't you already have two kids. Why do you wanna overpopulate the world. I'm not gonna have any of those snotty little brats running around positive. Sounds fun at a cocktail party. Within about a year later you she has an oops pregnancy and her two kids absolutely are the most important thing in her life and giving life to them and and and guiding them and helping them and being there for them. I mean it's brought her so much happiness and you know she had no idea and this isn't about kids. It is about this idea of making a commitment. 'cause she was kind of in that you know. Let's go smoke some weed. Let's do our own thing and all that kind of stuff and so she didn't want to make the commitment to kids but it totally changed her life. She's a great mom. You know what i think. The differences love that once you fall in love. You can't help but want to give yourself away. That's what real love feels like. I cannot help but make commitment. That's the feeling of love. So that's why. I like to be honest. I also like that. This is just me being theological. But you know in the old testament. God commands that we're every sabbath to offer bread and wine and then god says i'm not letting out this hook. This is a perpetual command every sabbath. You must offer bread and why not because i need it. I don't need anything from you. You know there's no way you could ever feel any of my hunger. You need to learn how to make an offering of your life so that what it means to be a true human being is that we give ourselves away and once you're in love you can't help but give yourself away what i found so disturbing about the seth interview is that it lacks any love. It really does like i. You know. I just wanna sit and smoke my weed. That's a sad story of somebody who has yet to know what love is young as yet to know the power of commitment so really the end. The question here really is about love. And how am. I going to give myself away. Maybe it isn't kids. Maybe it's like. You're the people in montana who decided they were so worried about the canadians. Maybe it's the parents of the governor. Here in idaho. Who have this big empty house and decide to turn it into a foster home decide to to give it away give themselves away and know love you give yourself away you just have to. Let's awesome father. I it'll be interesting to see. I don't have any idea what our listener was thinking about. But maybe he was thinking about this idea of commitment and whether he wanted to make a commitment to kids and that kind of thing so hopefully maybe he'll find a way to give himself away. Maybe it isn't kids. Maybe something else i believe. God is trickster. He says in the bible. God is a trickster seriously. this is a major theme. The bible he tricks people into falling in love and then they're willing to sacrifice everything that's great. Well we welcome your comments and questions and it's easy to get those to us you just head over to our website which is w. w. g. show dot com that's w. w. g. show dot com and near the top of the page on the laptop or the desktop version of the website. You'll see a questions button if you're viewing the website on your phone you click on a three line menu and it'll reveal the questions but all you do is click on that and you'll find a bunch of ways to get to e email text telephone voicemail and if you're enjoying the wrestling with god show and this happens to be one of your favorites and somebody that maybe needs to have a sense of what happiness in life is about. Please subscribe rate and review our podcast and share it with your friends. Because that really does help people discover us and subscribing by the way to our podcast is free. It just guarantees that you'll know whenever we publish new episode so we hope you join us next time as we continue our journey climbing the mountain of life searching for truth meaning purpose in our lives and commitments. Thanks for listening. See next time.
Ryan K. Zinke, Will You Please Go Now?
"Welcome to go west young podcast, the show where America's politics and parks, collide, I'm Aaron Weiss at the center for western priorities in Denver. Normally we start the podcast with news update. But this episode is all news all the time as you have probably heard by now interior secretary Ryan Zinke is on the way out after nearly two years of attacking. America's public lands at the behest of oil gas coal and mining interests and faced with the prospect of real congressional oversight for the first time Zinke called it quits over the weekend. The New York Times reported that one of John Kelly's final acts as White House chief of staff was to tell Zinke that he should leave by the end of the year or risk being fired in a humiliating way. Not that his departure isn't already bit humiliating. But he did at least stick around for the interior department's holiday party where the animal heads on his office walls were decorated with Christmas ornaments, a lovely fed. Touch President Trump indicated that he will pick a replacement sometime this week sicker. -tary Zinke is meeting with the president. And at the White House today Monday as we record this podcast. In the meantime, this probably means that deputy secretary, Dave Bernhardt, former lobbyist will take over as acting secretary. We just put out a report here at the center for western priorities. Looking at the very specific ways Bernhardt has helped his oil gas mining and water clients, we will get into all of that in a few minutes. But I want to start by bringing in Colin O'Meara. He is the president and CEO of the national wildlife federation. He just published an op-ed in the Washington Post, titled Ryan Zinke, most lasting failure, Colin welcomed the podcast there. And thanks for having me on today. Reading your piece. The word disappointment kept coming to my mind is that a fair characters characterization of Ryan, Zinke tenure at interior. I think when you consider where we started right which was a during the nomination process lash, the vetting of the cabinet, and there were folks like Sarah Palin and others were potentially on the list. You know, Ryan Zinke was someone that at least had notionally signal that he had some kind of conservation beliefs. And I think you know, what we saw over the course of the first year in particular. But no into entire tenure was that at every turn the energy dominance strategy trumped, no pun intended, the the conservation Genda at every single turn. And I think, you know, I'm hoping that the lesson for future secretaries that you just cannot have that massive reckless imbalance without having the American people rise up and fight against it. I was going to write a little one paragraph summary of Zinke legacy. And then you manage to do it for me in in Europe it so I just want to quote here. And then. Heavy expound on a little bit. You wrote quote common sense standards for energy development, reducing methane pollution, protecting migratory. Birds off-shore drilling were gutted world class. Scientists were reassigned or marginalized conservation plans to recover the imperilled sage grouse were gravely weakened and the voices of native Americans were consistently silenced in decision making most notably in the unprecedented reduction of the bears ears in grand staircase, national monuments. I mean, that's a laundry list of bad stuff. It's kind of a other than that. How did you enjoy the play? Mrs Lincoln kind of summary. Is there is there any upside to point to or how does how do any upsides compared to that laundry list? No getting getting on mass balance. I think that the the adverse impacts to our public lands are waters wildlife are our future are unfortunately, much kinda nastier than the things that they that. They did it accomplish. I mean, I I do think on the conservation side. There was this. You know, kinda notion that they had massively over oh kind of overextended themselves on the energy side going to pivot back the conservation. And there's some stuff around while court orders, and the crumbling parks infrastructure and kind of the need to maintain a recreational infrastructure better and things around collaboration. I'm all for a wind and on the east coast primarily, but in total if you put that scorecard up to each other, I mean, they had a pretty short stack on the conservation shy side compared to very big stack of the industry wishlist on the energy dominant side and on that. Grant, pivot con con conservation. We're going to see in twenty eight teen did any of that actually happen. How much of it made it across the finish line. I mean, there are handful of place on the wall of quarters, for example, where you know, we requested with other partners withdrawing, you know, potential belief ails in in places like Wyoming in the Holbeck red desert corridor, and there's some stuff in Montana that we had worked on some stuff in New Mexico. But you know, you're talking of a handful of thousands of acres compared to the tens of millions of acres that were opened up for additional extraction. And so again, I mean, you know, well, there were these kind of moments where you know. Yes, it's wonderful that a few reductions in the number relief acres, and while we'll help meal deer have faith or passage. If you look at it in total the impacts of the massive unfettered extraction, many other places with more than much more damage than the benefit from the few actions that we're taking orders of magnitude different order makes. Yeah, exactly. Let's talk about David Bernhardt for moment. He is the deputy interior secretary, we presume he will become acting sick. -tary until a replacement makes it through the Senate. What is your take on Bernard? I had the chance to work with David for for many years. I think my take is that he understands it. It's very similar parallel to what we have it where he understands internal workings of the agency better much better than the secretary did and much better than most people. He's got a very clear agenda for what he wants to accomplish. I mean, I know that now there is a lot of obviously a lot of his clients in the past are folks that he's worked with have him business before the agency. And then I think he's someone that you know, we're going to continue to push hard on to make sure that that the lessons of thinking administration first years aren't lost. And there really has to be much more focused on on conservation. And and much balancing the Amine. There's there is an opportunity for a little bit of a clean slate. I mean, you know, we didn't really see that when we took over and even though maybe it's a lot Wallis drama and a lot less. I guess kinda soap opera behavior. Then what we saw of you know, compared to Scott Pruitt. But now, they have more balance and there having more focus on it. And so you know, what we will try to work on that. But you know, if they try to sell public lands, if they try to double down on the leasing strategy if they try to continue to weaken bedrock flaws and important kind of rags as his been the much of the work in the the first couple of years, you know, we'll continue to push back aggressively at every turn. Due Dave Bernhardt conflicts of interest. Give you pause especially looking at his history working for groups like Westlands water district that have worked very hard to try to undermine the Endangered Species Act. I mean, what does that say to you as a group focused on wildlife? I do think that a lot of the clients that he's working to pass. You know, we've been we've been an adverse positions with right? Whether that's in on the ground, or in, you know, in regulatory or in legal proceedings, we wanna make sure that in ethical disclosures are made and the very clear about the the conflicts, you know, that that that do exist, and you know, I mean, we wanna make sure that that the role of the professional staff and the sound scientists many of them were marginalized and some of the more important decisions the past years, including things like the border while rival we're getting no new reports at while file just voices completely drowned out and they were trying to advance the presence agenda. They're making voice heard. And so again, I do think this area, we're transparencies the best disinfectant, and, you know, just making sure that folks are aware of these things, and you know, calling kind of balls and strikes. If if any activities are are kinda go outside of the what's what's appropriate and these. Conflicts have to be avoided. President Trump now gets to pick replacement. We've seen names like dean Heller rubbish ap- role labrador, Cathy, McMorris Rogers, even Wisconsin. Governor Scott Walker in the mix I won't ask you to weigh in on specific names. But if President Trump called you and asked what you would want or the traits. You would like to see in the next interior secretary recognizing they're going to be coming in with a Republican Trump ish perspective. What would you tell him to look for? Dan. I appreciate the question. And I'm not sure for today's that I'm going to get that call. But I want to loves America's public land. Right. Not not as a photo op. But like, the truly, you know, loves loves the outdoor, and I don't care whether they hiker fish or they camper bird, or however, they spend time, but I want someone that fully appreciate the kind of the incredible bounty. We've all been blessed to inherit and because if if the appreciate that of the visceral level, they'll be much less likely to allow something a massive exploitation that we've seen both proposing executed the last two years. And so, you know, I mean, maybe it sounds fan kind of naive romantic kind of sense. But I want somebody that, you know, kind of loves the loves the department of loves the mission of the department, and again in the Trumpian environment where they want to you know, his energy dominance strategy. There was absolutely no reason that that strategy had to be executed through some of the most magnificent places in the country. There's no reason why we're still unsure about the future of uranium mining outside. The Grand Canyon the fifth from the petrified forest in Arizona. The proposed. Meaning the boundary waters. The the the decimation of bears ears and grand staircase. None of that was necessary to achieve the goals. They set for themselves in terms of production there her enough places and again from a climate perspective, the disasters absolute strategy. But even if you wanna pursue that as presidential priority. There is no reason to destroy special places that they propose allowing titties than and a secretary who actually had a love of those special places would directed. Direct the energy extraction activities in places where the impact would be much less. And I think that's the balance that we just haven't seen look. And when they get when when you throw all the planning rolls out the window, and you go back to the nineteen eighty kind of standard when you get rid of the methane rules. You get rid of you know, MVP require the migratory bird treaty equa clermont's. It just shows disdain for the resource. And I think we want somebody with the balance and a lot of governors, you know, not to get too into names. But like a lot of the governors that worked like the sage grouse processes and trying to have these collaborative kind of win win solutions would be much better equipped for. Balancing, the competing equities in some cases. Then you know, some of the ideologues. I mean like, and I'll use one like row labrador, for example, who has spent every fiber of his being the time in congress before the Weiss folks, Idaho, beat him in primary for governor would be a disaster. Right. And because he kinda pours this idea of managing the federal estate for future generations. And I think, you know, those are the kind of message you were going to have like we can absolutely not tolerate anyone that is pro sell off that is not gonna manage resources better because it's our future that they're that. They're throwing away as opposed to just to toss out of names of a Brian Sandoval or a met me departing or even Butch otter departing governor from from one of the western states that worked on the sage guys plans. Exactly. And I think there's folks if showing me degrade example, right? I mean, we consider medal in front of the federation. We don't agree on everything. But he exhibits balance in a way that tries to achieve both countries and goals and their common goals in you know, in in equal measure lease. And you know, of course, we always want to see folks more on. The conservation side. But at least there's an acknowledgement that it matters. And I think that that balance was frankly, lacking for the vast majority of the decisions the secretaries and keep in touch on good policy before I let go a midst. The train wreck of the final days of Sikri. Zinke tenure we saw the house natural resources committee. Finally reached a deal on the land and water conservation fund, which I know has been a huge priority for you. And for us here at CW p it's now looking unlikely that congress is going to get anything done during the lame duck session. I mean, the government may even shut down over the border wall. Do you think more effective interior secretary could get elderly CF or other priorities over the finish line in a new congress? Yeah. I I've been pretty critical thinking, I think he actually did work the parks maintenance Ville, incredibly hard. I mean called daughters members hundreds of members, and you know, from what I've heard trying to get sponsors that there was not the same level attention to delight a water conservation fund, even though he had been supportive as legislator. I mean, his spent virtually no capital either with the White House in the budget process to try to increase the level all of which an abysmal from the Trump's from President Trump's proposed budgets or would legislator trying to get it done. If anything he actually actively tried to separate it from the conversation around parks maintenance as a way to increase, the likelihood his priority will get done, which was the maintenance and not the not not billing. And so I do think that secretary has the ability to help get these things done, and we're still in this kind of crazy world where tax cuts don't f you paid for warzone paid for all kinds of spending paid for but the royalties that people are paying there's cynically designated for this purpose half be all set, and we have to fix that going into the next congress. And so, you know, I do think that the bipartisan support is there. I mean, the leadership you and your team of exerted kind of raising the profile LDC, I cannot be more proud of my team folks like Tracy's on manning and new black and all these folks that are working hard on the ground and every corner of the country trying to make sure the folks have heard of the program for the most part for the program. No one's ever heard of. But at the end of the day, it's gonna take a bigger push. And if you do run the clock out because we're fighting run the clock runs out because we're fighting over the border wall. We gotta go at Ernest internist next year 'cause I do think raw Rogov in his role as chairman is going to be make an absolute top priority. I'm hopefully, it's a priority would funding and not just with the authorization. And then we're gonna get, you know, make sure we have the the big battle in the Senate to make it make sure it gets done. So that's el-dibel UCF what other policy priorities are on your list, either at the federal or the state level looking at the next year two years, we had into a presidential election. One of my top priorities is is addressing the wildlife. Crisis facing? I mean right now one third of all species or risk potential extinction. In the coming decades yet, you know, more than thousand species up for potential listing on the native Species Act. I mean, if we don't we're in the midst of the six nation, and if we don't figure out a way to fund proactive collaborative work, we're gonna continue to see more species get listed, and it's it's a heck of a lot cheaper to save species before they're in the urgency room, then trying to recover them. Once they're in kind dire straits and we've seen that now would like sage grouse. So you know, that's how priority very bipartisan. Because folks on the right don't wanna see the regular regulations and folks on the left and want to save a lot of the lot of critters. So that's one thing that I think you get done infrastructure big party for us, which might sound odd for a while by Ford musician, but we want to make sure that we're building our natural structure. So restoring forest making sure that we're rebuilding natural defenses making sure that we're becoming more resilient to the coming climate shifts. They're going to continue to to see and using that packages way to massively reduce emissions, and we actually see the potential for thirty forty percent emission reductions through an infrastructure is things like energy efficiency and improvements to a lot of the building stock that actually could advance both our goals of having less sprawl kinda rebuilding that he's we're not building and incredible natural like you, and I both love as well as reducing emissions at the same time. And if we do that that could be very bipartisan and chief, you know, a lot of a lot of goal of the same time. So we see a lot of potential in this kind of divided government. I'm not expecting a lot of that leadership to come out of the agencies. I think it's going to have to congressionally directed. But at least we don't want the agencies to be in the way of these kind of potential victories because at a time when you know, one one quarter of all US emissions or originating in some form on our public lands at a time when we're seeing record mega fires and hurricanes and everything else. It seems like, you know, now, it'd be the time to kind of dropped some of the artif-. Partisan divided on these issues and actually bring come together and get a couple things done next year. What a fabulous roadmap for the coming. Congressional session calling Amara president and CEO of the national wildlife federation his up it on Ryan. Zinke departure is in the Washington Post. There is even a link on your screen right now, if you are listening to this on a fancy podcast app, Colin thank you so much for taking the time today. Erin, thanks for doing. Let's bring in Jessi Prentice done our policy director here at the center for western priorities. Back for his second podcast in a row Jesse just let a research project here looking at deputy secretary soon to be acting secretary David Bernhardt, and how all of his conflicts of interest have turned into concrete policy changes that benefit his former clients Jessie, what's the bottom line here. You know, we've heard a lot in the last couple of years about draining the swamp in Washington DC in taking money out of politics. And I think you can say without a doubt that David Bernhardt might be the the pity me of swamp creature so Bernhardt his done two stints it at the interior department. I in the George W Bush administration and now in the Trump administration and before an in between those two stents he's worked as a high powered DC lobbyist and litigator for scores of corporate clients. All right. Remind us who are some of these clients that Dave Bernhardt used to. Work for sure we're talking to who's who of the energy industry. So he is worked for a host of oil and gas companies and trade associations. Some notable ones are Statoil and Halliburton and the independent petroleum association of America. He also has a bunch of clients in mining is done work with folks looking to develop compromise Zona, and then really notable when you're talking about David Bernhardt is water in California water. I mean, Westlands water district one of the largest water users water districts in the country has paid bernards firm over one and a half million dollars in Bernhardt himself has done lobbying and litigation for these folks for years. And you broke these policies down that burn hearts. Former clients have advocated for or supported you them into different categories. What are the areas where Bernhardt clients have gotten the biggest help from the interior department? A couple come to mind. One in particular is offshore drilling burn Bernhardt has done a ton of work for drillers drilling contractors willing gas trade associations that are looking to open up the outer continental shelf looking to weaken safety regulations when it comes to production, and even weaken enforcement mechanisms from government regulators. You identified ten policies that are already done nine. Others are still pending that bernards clients have supported what is in the works right now. So in the works right now, you know, many many things so David Bernhardt is personally overseen at the department rewriting sage grouse conservation plans. Those were landmark deal -struction in two thousand fifteen with bipartisan sets of western governors. Tons of stakeholders and Zinke directed Bernhardt oversee this in this is an item where the independent petroleum association of America has lobbied extensively for these plans to be gutted of protections in burn hearts delivered on that. They came out with the final draft of the plans a week or two ago and lo and behold, they punched oil rig sized loop loopholes through these things in we'll see fewer protections for the sage grouse. So as of Monday afternoon when we're taping. This we still have not heard definitively whether Dave Bernhardt will be named acting secretary. It certainly looks like he would because his number two at the department assuming he does take the reins either acting for some period of time or even gets nominated for the big job itself. What will you be watching for in the coming weeks and months? Two things here one anymore policy actions that specifically benefit his clients. I mean, it's such a notable story that the Washington Post published a couple of weeks ago. This is a guy with so many conflicts of interest that he literally carries a card around in his suit jacket. So he can remember them all I mean, this is a walking conflict of interest. So if if he's going to be so conflicted that he's not going to be able to deal with certain policies. I think that's worth looking out for and then second one thing that's not often on the radar is the Endangered Species Act. And this is something that Bernhardt his long wanted to water down. This is what many of his corporate clients in drilling and mining practices. See wildlife protections is just things in their way. That should be should be weakened. And so he this is area where Zinke is put him in charge of rewriting these rags? And so he is he is proposed a few Endangered Species Act rollbacks, and it'll be interesting to see if he follows through all right. Jesse Prentice done policy director here at the center for western priorities. His report on Dave burnt hearts. Conflict of interest is up right now at western priorities dot org and possibly right up on the screen of your phone as we speak Jesse. Thank you again. Thank you. All right. That is always got today. No look back at history this week, but we will bring that back in the new year. A couple of quick words of thanks. This is our fiftieth episode of the podcast, and I can't think of a better way to market then by saying goodbye to the guy who has been the focus of so many of our episodes of this Lee, the story of Ryan Zinke time at interior is a huge part of Donald Trump's environmental legacy. It's a story that we are not done telling here at the center for western priorities and whoever gets picked to replace Zinke. We'll be in a position to either double down on attacks or start walking them back. So I want to thank all of our previous guests from conservation groups and tribes across the west as well as old elected officials who have taken their time to share public land's perspectives with us, I hope that all of their stories have given you a better understanding of the issues facing the west today. I am certainly. Much better off for it. And with any luck. We will keep these stories going for another fifty episodes or more. So please, keep your emails and your story ideas, coming podcast at western priorities dot org on behalf of all of us at the center for western priorities. I'm Aaron Weiss and thanks for sticking around through fifty episodes. We'll see you in two thousand nineteen. But that's the question they asked and I'm a geologist geologist geologist.
Episode 14: "Retraction: It's a Guinea Pig!"
"Art and this is on the show. Welcome to cover it in depth and darkness doc. nece that he couldn't hear. The Rice is panic when you do that. Does it annoy you gonNA stop in and I'm like mature to say that I'm like well come The next two okay Today say right. We'll make a story put would do each would. Did you do that right now. This is all righty. I'll let you start because I think you could start with. Stories are so very beautiful and full. Stop now doesn't go. I'm saying full. Stop by excellent where it is. He was so beautiful and smelly the Dow this podcast the direction I thought this is going to go has spent a vision available to each visit currently listening to this episode postal. It feels uncomfortable when Jake Jake grabs use his toes and who'll his foot like it's Yeah I know someone actually an makes us feel sick really weird think. What's he's like Iowa saw at in the waitress musical he was? Yeah Joe Joe Sook. He put a picture of him and he's loss in some country And Shoot Novem pictures where people people like the person taking the picture has just the hand and freedom and the person is exit like dragging them somewhere Hans. He said there was his foot. Funny Picture right today we are doing lettered. D in the ABC's of death and darkness did it did do for all the NFL fans out there All right well. We'll just get started It was You that when I last week I believe me remember what I did today. Fair enough Yes I think it was you that when I I last week so I think I will be So did he my cracker or did it came from all across the room. I had my head massage. Acid it till my head to the side in late cracked so loud those I owed ethnic magic right right so I was looking at lots of different things to do for you GIMME THOUGH NOT Ozzy won't coming on the podcast but give me. That's the point though. Give me knows what what if you if you think you've if that while by brand melted Christmas Colombina given the nod if you've done any of these so David Thomas Dawson I've done any of these. If you've covered the topic of done like say like drunk something all. I know very specific. I've also done research into these people but then I seldom someone else so when today we'll for these for these episode right. I have done a specific person for this episode. It's the spelling portion of ABC's of death and doctors but you only pick one. Yes Bush I looked in different people in the run-up to doing the one I saw. So one of these could be chosen. No but sometimes I don't pick a piss and with De de Isabela seven times a picnic. A thing like my face was it's like acid bath Kayla true but did you pick someone begin with you. Know I didn't okay. I won't say that anyway. The the ones that was going to cover was a guy called. David Thomas Dawson someone called Donald demogra- some old Dayan Valentino of DNA. Why name Donald David Dill Beck? Yes literally all these are literal fashion and finally the Dupont D. League owners family murder but instead I went for something a little bit closer to home I went with Derek bid and the Cumbria shootings right though. You'll remember this eventually when I start talking probably am all right. So does that mean that. We'll get oh you're GONNA do row. Mort I mean keep a close. No why not you can do you want. He was best man. Yeah it was you the to end up with a addressing own enough fish not Gaza. hoops saved him at wake when you worked in a ball. That's not good coffee that's fine that's me. He's actually quite nice he to give his case on the cheating coldness princess and every time he walked past where he does. I give us a wink and smile and wave and other. Yeah gives a newspapers right. So just Pepper to preface. This I wrote this as if it was going to be like a youtube video So it's a bit more drawn out than my usual north. Anyway here. We go in a society such as the UK. The worst actor violence that you used to hear about on the news don't usually involve weapons such as guns to them on the UK. As Charlie just reloaded two four for Roy Moore was a guy who went on the road in Newcastle and at one point he was the country's most wanted man because he shot and maimed a police officer at a roundabout really not far from anywhere in Yukata literally. It's it was a roundabout over or the A1 Unfortunately that police officer died because of that. I think it was because I was eat. He he went blind and they call. It was re down so yeah but just before the row mort March mid has happened. I think usually kill one person. Didn't he shot and killed his ex-girlfriend's anyway. It's not about Romo Just before the remote spring there was derek bid and the cases have been linked over the as purely because of like the timing and the the distance between them the Cumbria shootings are known as one of the worst criminal acts to involve firearms in the history of Great Britain. Derek Bridge was a father of two sons and a grandfather he was self employed taxi driver in Whitehaven Cumbria Umbria. He lived by himself in a place called RAW. I think that's how you pronounce it our W. R. E. H. Raw raw and he was described as a very popular person which means what he did all the more baffling bid was no stranger guns. He he actually had a shotgun ticket since nineteen seventy four and he actually had that certificate renewed a bunch of times. You'll sat us a ticket for a rifle life oil which he got in two thousand and seven eleven farm Well new in in the UK. It's the most common reason for Owning Gordon is pest control say Clay Pigeons Pest Control as sport and self defense on grounds enough to grunt your certificate to own a gun. Yeah 'cause I've been clay pigeon shooting with a PROB- big shock on. That was my phone's hand pie but that was on a fault it was yeah exactly It was very fun. You would have enjoyed it all. I'm sure the kickback is a bit of a bitch. didn't have it in the right position and then took his five goals. Then the guy was like thank you hold it wrong told us out before due in month he has something that might shock Americans in the UK the caliber of gun. That you you can own is limited to the amount of land you process so if you have a tiny little garden. You're not allowed gun but if you have acres and acres a lot these people a pistol so you have e Khas necas land you can have a big a big of you on gun ownership in general as you have already alluded to in many episodes of this podcast is frowned upon in the UK. And it usually comes as a shock to find out that someone owns one and it so baffles my mind. How Gonzales in America akin to Reich's on the other hand exactly yes and they get bond if they confiscated if you send one to America So in the morning of June second two thousand ten Derek drove from his home in rural to his twin brother's house in Phnom a lump Lou lump lump Lou Lum pugh emblem bishop nameless names. The has some weird nanny. Human names thought to with him took twenty two caliber rifle which he would use to shoot his brother in the head and body a total of eleven in times. He's twin his twin brother. He would then a memo infamous. Oh well open for the debate. He would then drive to Frizz intesne where he would make his way to the home of his family solicitor Kevin Commons Commons. Attempted to drive away from bid as as he confronted him with a double barrel. Shotgun Bid Failed Twice at Commons moving call and managed to hit him once in the shoulder. Commons and staggered from the car to the entrance of a farmyard of his formula. Sorry Weber caught up to him and shot him twice in the head with his rifle keeping the body count as to as to says on one day that this is. The policeman will fight at twenty past ten in the morning. But by that time gordy moves onto whitehaven where he'll breath as a taxi driver. The call was delayed because the witness. Who called the Cumbria Constabulary to tell them what was happening? Waited to ask neighbors what to do. I don't don't question. Yao Actions does do it. She also accidentally gave out some false information that could have been very costly as she said. The bid was carrying an air rifle a twenty two caliber rifle an air rifle so as upon his arrival in Whitehaven bid which is called to the home of a friend who had borrowed a shotgun belonging to bid and ask for back. Just think about barring shotgun for a second in the UK and then move along making a crash barshop going. He's the friend didn't answer though instead his wife did and she told him that she didn't have access to the gun. That may have actually. Cat Life as he moved on after that so just after ten thirty M bid drove his car to do to 'em happening in the moment. Ah All but it happened throughout the day. Start really early in the morning on the wrong side. The button well who shot in his conflict. She's Christ so just after ten thirty. Am Bill drove his car to St Whitehaven taxi rank where he met Othello taxi. Driver named Darren Rue Castle Bid Andrew Castle win not fond of each other. They'd had conflict in the past where bid took offence to Russell's Zyl's behavior and would have fairs stolen by Rue Castle and there was even one incident wherever castled damaged the tires embiid's taxi and openly bragged about doing it. Dan Bid called Kozel over to his call and when he approached Bitch shot him twice at point blank range with his rifle hitting him across Moses Talso also on the lower part of his head past three three bid then drove alongside a different taxi driver. Donald Reid and shot him in the back double back on himself in a bid to finish read off firing two shots at him while he waited for emergency personnel bid missed the second and third shots. What's and read actually managed to survive? He would repeat his movements this time moving alongside another taxi driver named Paul Wilson. This time he tried the talkie us on Route Castle and called Wilson over at least call once he was close. Enough bid fired the shotgun that Wilson and got him in the right side of the head. Wilson was severely wounded but lift. Jesus following these shoots local onum police beyond a follow bird when they were tailing him bid fired his shotgun again. This time on coach road at a passing taxi he hit and injured the driver Terry Kennedy and his passenger singer Emma percival bid would then turned his attention to the following officers. He aimed to shotgun at them which made them take over. The strange thing here is that he didn't fire at the officers. He just aimed at them and instead took advantage of their destruction to flee the scene so news of the shootings in Whitehaven spread resulting residents of the town in neighboring towns. To stay indoors this urge because the Northumbria Constabulary and the civil nuclear constabulary didn't know that was a thing but the civil nuclear constabulary. We're engaging in a massive manhunt forbid the the next relatively short period of time involved bid driving through some local towns and randomly firing people employing the same method I use against Ruben Ostlund Wilson and Colin Rees taxi and firing at them at close range so on the first leg spree. He was near the town of Agra Mont where he faded a woman Jacqueline Williamson as she walked her dog. He thankfully missed her. Though an escaped without injury he then ended agreement and came across Susan Hughes. She was walking back from a shopping trip where embiid shot her in the chest and abdomen with a shotgun that that wasn't the killing blow for Hughes Though SA- bid got out of the car got into a tussle with her before he ended her life by shooting. In the back of the head with his rifle looking cold blooded sciatica yeah he then drove onto bridge end where he and data Kenneth Fishburn walking toward him. Birdshot Fish Bem with his shotgun hitting him fatally in the head and chest that another one following fishburn bid drove on until he encountered Leslie Hunter who he called taxi who was shot at close range in the face with a shotgun and then again in the buck incredibly survived his injuries. What But then travelled south to thornhill but he shot a teenager Ashley glazed with the Shotgun but thankfully missed her entirely and didn't stick around for a second attempt at thornhill he passed through Caulton. Call Eaten. Caulton I'M GONNA say on the way to Wilton village and Wilton bed try right. Visit a man named Jason Carey who was a member of the same driving club as bid bed left shortly after arriving though because carries wife was the one who answered the door. Echoing just happened when he tried to retrieve the shotgun from his mates safe and the way funds the Dole Buckner whitehaven burden decided non looking to waste any more time now soon after he shot and killed. Jennifer Jackson shooting her once with the shotgun in in the chest and twice in the head with his rifle he then drove on past town had fom but suddenly decided to ten back towards it. You then fired his shotgun working again where he would fatally hit James Jackson the husband of Jennifer in the back of the head at the same time he injured Kristie whole hitting him in the back bid continued on back to Caulton where he shot Isaac Dixon while he was conversing with a former bid fatally shot got him twice a close range with his shotgun but then happened upon Garry Purdham a former semi professional. ropy PLA who was working in a field outside the Red Admiral Hotel in Boone would just outside Gosford not the Gospel the Newcastle the Gosford over on that side of the country was shot and killed beds. Next move was drive onto C- scale where while on the drive bird slowed his car and waved to other drivers to pass him while passing him. He fired his shotgun towards the car of James. Jimmy clock clock was hit in the head by the blast and it wasn't cleared fist list. As to what killed clock the call crash or the shotgun blast but it was eventually found to be the gunshot to a Bid then killed another motorist as he crossed paths with a man named Harry. Big The to literally had across possible another. At a one way passage beneath a railway bridge bridge Beija waved bid through who shot him as he passed literal hitting him twice and causing a severe injury in his right arm. Tom By this point they were three armed response vehicles in pursuit of bid but was slowed down yet again when they got to bridges vehicle. As has it blocked their path. The police had to push his car out of the way before they could continue his chase. Jesus to the have county copters out literally everything out like if you thought realm what was wanted and that he was basically the most was he admired in Britain because he shot a cop just thinking about what someone's doing if he's talked and everyone. I mean literally the only people he hasn't shot right at this point is children's says should I grand grand theft auto is Dr Oz people on the game pretty much So using the team that gained from the destruction of bridges called block in the road they was able to drive along the seafront in a drink road there. He fired two shots at Mako. Pike he was riding his bicycle in front of him missing the the fish short but hitting him with the second one in the head ending his life. A matter of seconds passed between the death of Pike and the death of another on the same street. Treat bird shot and killed Gene Robinson. After he had called it over to his car. He shot her point blank. Range in the neck and head gene would be the final person he would murder bed caught another look brick after gene though his driving became even more Roddick and at eleven eleven thirty three M he passed a vehicle containing PC Philip Louis and PC Andrew Laverick they made after him but ended up being held held up by some roadworks and lost him. Bid had evaded police yet again. And there's only been lunch time not long after bird drove into exile esque esque. They'll god these placenames asked valley where he used his rifle. Shoot Jockey Louis Louis in the neck he then he would then stop beside feel Murata who leaned his passenger side window thinking he was going to ask for directions it instead. He shot her in the chest the rifle before continuing onto the village of boot. That's right there is a village in England. Cold boot once in semi near-term pay me. That's funny petty. Meet once in boot. Bid went to to a place called Sims travel and began firing at near- nearby people but luckily he missed everyone. He waited further an boot and continued firing at random and and missing until he fired at a man named Nathan Jones. He injured with a shot to the face. Not long after Jones Bitch. A couple who had stopped for a photo he shot and severely wounded the face of Samantha Christie with his rifle before turning Christie's partner Craig Ross and telling him to run for it while running he fired at Ross as well but missed him entirely he told him to run. And then Sean he came. Yeah you start having fun with this. This was the beginning of the end. Though visit. You have kids yes. Life is have you had a wife but he had to had two kids and he was the grandfather. Bid would then fire a two cyclists who escaped unharmed after crushing his taxi. In a AH into a few vehicles as well as stonewall is body damage one of the tires on his call. He carried on for a short while but had to abandon his car at a place called Dr Bridge near Boot. After the damage Taya had completely gone flat. This was a family of four who were completely unaware of the hedges. Occurred could not far from them. Stop to offer bird some help. Bid them down though and advised the they leave that to suggests that he didn't want to shoot kids. Yeah so he grabbed the rifle from the call and set off for how woods the last time anyone saw bird alive was twelve thirty PM shortly. After police confirmed the public that there had been fatalities and that there was still searching for the suspect. It wasn't long before they will also announcing the search for the drive a Citron Zara Picasso confirming the suspect to be Derek bid at twelve thirty six. PM on police and dog handlers. Found birds abandoned car and began to search the woods firm by two PM. Deputy Deputy Constable Stuart Hyde announced that they had found the body of bid in the woods. He was found with his rifle right beside him after having used it to end his own and life with this information the police confirmed to the public that it was now safe for them to leave wherever it was that they had taken shelter and would resume that day to day activities activities. Although it was no surprise that no one could really do that. In the hours that followed it was confirmed to the public in a police. Press Conference in Whitehaven that twelve twelve people it'd be mid with eleven people injured. Three of the injured were in critical condition. The also confirmed the suspect to be dead. The the police confirmed that he used a double barrel. Shotgun and a twenty two caliber rifle with a scope and silencer attached to it. The had thirty different crime scenes scenes to investigate. Jeez this is actually the worst mass shooting in Britain since the Dunblane School massacre in Nineteen ninety-six begins the day's Ville. Yeah exactly which had a body count of E. Eighteen people which that's a really interesting story. I might go back and do at some some point But later reports said that bird was found to have six rounds left for his rifle still on him with an initial aid. Stolen Dylan the good in tool if I had close to fifty rounds during his rampage. Firing twenty nine from the rifle and eighteen from the shotgun. Yeah Yeah and bear main Adobo. Shocker you twice you have to reload. Yeah when his home was the researched over seven hundred and fifty live rounds for his twenty two caliber rifle was discovered along with two hundred forty live shotgun shells and a considerable amount of financial paperwork. God his spree took place over a fifteen mile or twenty four kilometer. Stretch of the CUMBRIAN coastline. The incident sparked outrage and debate and golden question. The Mater of further gun control in the United Kingdom the Dunblane School massacre and the Hungerford students led to an increase in gun control in the country but people called for even more. Because of Derrick Bird. People also had one major question on that means lanes. Why what possible motive did Derrick bird have for shooting so many people unfortunately will never truly know the answer? The kids well. There are a few theories I mean. I don't think she did ask the kids but One of of the theories was that he held a grudge he had worked as a joiner in the elephant nuclear power plant until nineteen ninety when he resigned because he was is accused of stealing would cost you money back who was trying to help find him with the police. The civil nuclear constabulary so basically the power. How all plans police service and then someone at bar the shotgun often he was someone else's stealing these taps? Tab Ferries he's He was convicted of stealing the woods and was given a twelve of months suspended sentence. It's not known whether or not they were targeted or shot by coincidence but three of the dead were former employees of the plant. This could have been the reason. Twenty as a longtime to snap after holding a grudge and there was absolutely no evidence to suggest that the resignation was the actual reason for the killing spree. One of the wounded Terry Kennedy described himself as one of Derek birds best friends and told of how bid claimed that he was in in a relationship with a girl from Thailand that he met while on holiday in Pattaya. Now when I hear a relationship with the goal from Thailand I think of chasing one online. Well are you going to say ladyboy. Another friend claimed that he had sent one thousand pound to the Thai girl who subsequently dumped him via text suggesting being bid had been made a fool out of quote unquote. Could that have been the reason that he ended up shooting the west coast of England. I Dow h Bush. It's one theory. His own father's will was even called into question to as his family was currently involved in a dispute over it. The speculation as to whether or not this was the reason for the spree was given more credibility when it was revealed that he taught at his brother and his family solicitor killing them. Both finally the final theory was that he had snapped while being investigated for tax evasion while investigating the killings the police found that Hmo were carrying out. That's him I just. He's revenue and customs were carrying out an investigation and looking into the possibility of future punishment. The thought of having a monetary punishment all being served with prison. Time may have made him do what he did. A fellow. Taxi driver mock Kupa. He would numbered for fifteen years revealed. The bid had accumulated sixty thousand pound in a secret bank account and was paranoid paranoid about being sent to prison for hiding the money. This goes so much deeper than a guy. Just randomly shooting people usually does. It doesn't the reasons why the to bid was said to have thought that his solicitor and his brother were conspiring against him. And we're building the case against bird to send him to prison for the hidden money and tax evasion in the DS India's in the days leading up to the spree spree bid called his brother forty four times. That's more than I have missed calls from you when you're trying to hold they just get Mamo Nikkei's exactly so all of that could just be circumstantial but people have killed for less. So we may never truly know why Eric Berry decided to grab his goons one day and just go shooting people or people as it seemed it could have been any one of those things things mentioned or a combination of a lot. Either way it's still one of the worst things to ever happen in recent memory in the UK in fact this massacre took place almost exactly one one month before the real incident took place Aleta law people on edge for awhile. I myself was nearly an adult. Yeah my parents were still reluctant to let me go anywhere. I was seventeen and they didn't want to let me go anywhere. It's crazy a thing that you could just be walking down the street after Shelbourne Award Doc Kelly and take your life away when suddenly someone just fires a high powered gun in your direction with the intent to kill. Yeah it's pretty hard a thing of and it's something that I truly hope that none of you out there ever have to experience and that is the story of Derek bid and the world is also much a worst place port like. It's like when people say I'm uh-huh scattered late terrorists and stuff light up and then I go on. I don't WanNa go shopping. I don't want to go into town when it's busy 'cause it's high risk but then that's given them one. Yeah because they want based in the one you go about your day and stuff like this people not want to go about their day. Anything could happen and people get anxious to Wanna one of the craziest. Things is the Fox In America right now at least the most likely candidate to be a terrorist in America is a white middle-aged man. It's no longer the AM al Qaeda Isis suicide bomber. It's now more likely to be a screwed up white man. I mean look at the Vegas shootings look at most of the school. Shootings are heaven by Colombian Columbine. Those were those biological kids. So it's of the obviously in the UK. A law of knife and gun crime is perpetuated by gangs and a lot of those gangs are made up of black doc people but that's not to say that it's just them doing it as case in point here on with remote like you can get hold a specially in London or Liverpool. You can get hold of a gun. Real easy doesn't is not hard to get one and it will be like a little handgun but still go not can kills someone as opposed to what they're did at had actual licenses for them and then one day just decided you know what I'm GonNa shoot some people so yeah it's it's crazy a thing that we have such strict gun laws in the UK and yet people still die because he'll get them happy. We'll get them. Yeah should have to be late. Mentally assess together good. Yeah you should have to pass some sort some form of psychological test the price. Well that was my story. What do you have for me so mine is a decapitation in Dublin? Do the Double d Yeah it's actually in a town called Drogheda. I think I said that right. It's it's spelled I. D. R. O. G. H. E. D. A- are we know about it because a fever and will monitor his another place when something was found in Drumcondra tre so so thinking of the day all the ds so this happened in January. Twenty twenty it's currently January twenty twenty and it's currently still you under investigation. So it was a bloody gang bull crap that's being going on for. Yes and and seventeen year old. Keene Mill Ready Woods WAS MID and he severed head was found in a Blazin Volvo. hatchback oh you multiple hundred dollars and detectives believe. He was savage committed as part of a drug war between Drogheda at a town from north of Dublin. So there's like draws going on grief and impels pleaded with own McGuire whose Agung like a leader. Yeah And he was left wheelchair-bound. Jude violence so was going on. And Jesus Christ the he was shot on the stomach and the shoulder in a botched murder attempt Jesus blitz and he's still got a ball a bullet lodged any Spain but he's paralyzed from the waist. Down it's too unsafe to take that bullet out approach. We like do something. We spinal cold. I am but police have been pleading pleaded with him for years to stop the violence and stop the bloodshed so that pleaded with him last year. And obviously it's still it's still happening. Yeah and he's associates. INCLUDE MR big behind the murder of the real. Ira Boss Alan Ryan Holy Crap. That's a big deal. Yeah Jesus Christ. An I'm an three Gangsta Enemies. Now have targets on the box including the killer of mold ready woods also keyon and the gunman who tried to kill McGuire when when he was blasted six times in July of two thousand. Eighteen and another thug relate into a number of murder bid on his associates. And so kill keen Moretti Woods his last movements and so police believe he was abducted and then tortured holy crap and the body was dismembered and pasta found in two locations in Dublin cheese so on six. PM on the Sunday he was last two locations. Yeah so so six. PM on Sunday He was last seen alive on Saint Dominique's bridge Nine fifty five pm Monday so another full day And on more view drive a sports bar containing Qian's jeans dismembered limbs found after being thrown from a move and call into a house in state and it was found by children. All my God man. Can we just like talk about what type of special person needs to be like. First of all taking someone's life to start with that is detectable takes a special kind of begins. The despicable it takes a special kind of person to be able to do that in the star with it then takes a whole level of love to chop up afterwards and then think right but will both put these and then we'll put this the and then some kids will find it so then at one theory. Am on Wednesday attorney. Terrace Qian's severed head was found. Inside of a burn out. Volvo King Hell police found blood-stained. Gene Michelle is a knives convention. The smell believed to be used and king's murder and they were found owned in a shed and then inside the house where the shed was. There was blood soaked flow bowed. So it's clear that that's where the scene plays doctors made it even wis like. Oh my God blood soaked floor boards not on a unlike right move. So I'm it wouldn't by some special people who would be that sounds cheap to rent a video with the caption fuck with us. And you lose. Your head was posted but the police still unsure whether it's genuine relation awesome wonder stolen and the bag of said the bug labs was formerly earn images and videos of the chopped up body were in circulation on what's up but of since all being taken down and it just spread fear into the community which obviously it would and people Sharon it will glorify in the the gun crimes And please be pleased to settle. The gang feuds still being asked for so and then there's people are in the chair tubing skinned failures if if chopping off. Someone's head and slim's if you willing to do that why would you stop. Like they will point to a see. All right guys have crossed the line. There like the NOCCO onto it was believed that came is working for both factions in the feud ooh double agent and the main suspect for his was seen drinking a local Gopalan. The Wednesday. Okay Yeah. He was recently released from jail and he's been living outside of Dublin Judah death threats but police Priscilla obviously questioning because it's quite fresh quite new Of Yesterday the toll soul is still missing nine days after the murder thus January twenty first yes twenty twenty yes so the torso is still missing. Ninety S Leah Soviet. He's family can't give him a proper burial because they don't Hubble is body party which is very distressing for them not hell and as a five thousand bounty for the Gangsta. WHO's done it? I'm in Gaza. No it was in pounds because it was from an English or colored Gangsta Cornelius corneas. Price has now recruited extra muscle for the ongoing gang. War with 'em Qian's killers and keen was wearing clothes with over one thousand two hundred and seventy five five pounds at the time of his Minnesota. Two things from that so he three things from that one cornelius. What name to? How does one recruiter crude for this sort of thing interested like well maybe no? How do you like econ exactly what he's being on the TV? Yeah but he's been right recruiting for through friends and stuff because of his he's been recruiting from the UK. I was GONNA surround the UK not just in Dublin. He's been getting people overseas was GONNA say in Garland to go over and help was going to put a advil the TV. I was born in call Iot but I was raised in Royal Navy. I was born in Carlisle those raised by a gung stucco Cornelius And the third thing was we're going to update. Yes as soon as we find anything about this we have to have an update. And why me Ab- ar- and by we I mean me and the podcast listeners. This is all new Charlie. Can you saddle with the Russia. I don't know whether that is truly notes yet. They don't know where he's torso is known. I think would it be missed. You know if you were like alive and some almost chopping your your legs off roms being alive that would be horrific. Well you probably pass from pain before properly. A- and then die for blood blossom yet well comfy my shoes all what are we to say. I have the shoe you can hear it you very spongy now this esm all this is a shoe. Have you back right. Well Emails this week but we still as fell in love. You'd you only ever had three. They wish that I could pick a cake. Made Irene boasts miles. Would all be happy to even go to this you you know I just have a lot of feelings. Okay go home. She would just turn this customer in the Mingas cost. I'm obsessive Dominguez a musical as well it needs to come to England. I need to play covered cautionary tale face on actual events. Some people died. Nope well she. In these two cases lots of people died so yeah. We haven't gotten emails Bush by all means. What is the creepiest thing thing to ever happen to you? That's what we want to know and you email in to C. I. Deedee podcast at Jima Dot Com. That's let's see DOD podcast at Djamil Dot Com. I just ask him a family. I mean by all means. Let Me Gramma. Does she have an email address. No but look they cannot run the podcast or you can always send like right. One on the Hoffman senator. Yeah send it to us from her. That will I think mom had one anxious wicked and a publ once and she's seen a ghost in the Toyota in the toilet all like in the bathroom the bathroom the cube just took a shit in a ghost in it in the right place is our new dot e if you'd like to There'll be a link in the show notes if you could go to read this podcast. Dot Dot com forward slash death. They'll be links to how you can leave ratings to this podcast on the main PODCAST rating sites. I think it's apple podcasts slash. I tunes Podesta and stitcher and actually I have. I have a list of all the PODCASTS APPS that we are on are you ready for this. Glenn Me Me Me Me To who so I guess Right so he would go apple podcasts. Such I tunes. Bullhorn Breaker Kaas box Castro. Google podcasts iheartradio luminary overcast. FM POCKET COSTS PODGY pod. Bean pod Knife Radio Republic spotify stitcher various android APPs actually sees and the IRS feed. I like most of that was in Alphabetic Florida. Yes it was His really weird all right. So you know how podcasts work be dull up and you can download right. He has a really we had at one bullhorn. The second one said Yeah. You don't actually have to have an in. That connection will listen to it. You get a phone number call the phone number and can listen to a podcast through the phone. Call for the amazing that in my friends I really WanNa try a there is an APP. Obviously where you can do the traditional thing download and listen over the stream and listen but so you can actually call the podcast. Yeah and that is insanely such a good idea PA and the show whereas psych that can go back to if theralac feeling lowly. Hallo are you all right. Yeah all right as asa sounds iphone compensation but that reminds me if you go Guan Our social media. We'll send you the link on how to buy private voicemail messages and we'll record those few. Hello Hello this is Shaun from combatant darkness. I now it's easiest. Jody Oxnard can do as a woman. So yeah we're all we're on all of those podcast APPs I myself listened to. I always tons narcissistic but I always listen to our show just just in case of left any Like flips in there which have in the past. And I go back edit the show and reload Which is which I look the podcast host that we use paying cast? I love that because I don't have to take a short down to re upload because I can just swap out the MP three and I love that But I personally listen on Google. podcasts is very simple APP. But it's very annoying because ECON batch download edit so edit batch downloaded elite so hey charlie what podcast do use non what I don't listen to podcast and this was embarrassed because he like us out of Isis horrible horrible. And there's a reason you'll everyone's favorite. I seen the episode. 'cause I'm not funny. I'm the thick one. That's why you send the listen to my porno I really want to listen to go. The Rosie Ramsey in Chris Ramsey too great podcast. You can listen to that. PODCAST ON APPLE PODCASTS. I have apple podcast. podcast really as podcast up. An all people use spotify now is what drove. If it took as long ago a work I would probably listen to something like that. But she takes me like five ten minutes partners and then on a nighttime. It'll read like if I want to listen to me Skopje. Music much muffins see watch just said they. I literally do the exact opposite when I was driving to your house tonight. I why I don Aucoin explained this new song and then I was like I kind of listen to music right now of God listening to a podcast. So I finished. I find it with podcasts. Call just because it was an amazing podcast. She finished it on the wheelhouse. When I drive back down to London I will? I promise I will listen to an episode. Just one yokels detri- listener at once and then that was like cringe at myself. But y'all the only one listen to listen to in a group. No but I mean like I know that people are no listen to it now because they're like 'cause I'll mentioned it in Pasta and the audio podcast where you and I can do podcast. What's called Tau listen to it and then I'm like Oh shit and then I have to tell them and then I feel really embarrassed thing that everyone listens now so the podcast? I was listening to is called. Monsters Zodiac killer way more information than the movie and the book ever you haven't seen Zodiac fell asleep. It's a fantastic movie. Even if it might be slightly tainted got listened to that Holocaust everytime ahead so jack interesting interesting if when you asked me if I was listened got Charlie typing on phone as as me so so join just taking home. Now at the end of this movie Charlie Literal Zombie noises coming from the typist. And and me do just zone out completely whenever I'm Dalton dear That's the phone locker. Put the phone down. What blank-faced what let me say move while I was like what did I just see you and Do you want to what's the end Zodiac. We weren't watching Izzo Deok. I can't say that don't make you weren't even watching anything with Zad in the name. Just because I said zoned Glad we had such lofty the night watching block Meriden if anyone watches blackwater like Alex Wanders. One does this point. I'm quite like I always like jake gets annoyed. And he's like I'll cut much anymore humanity after I watch it and then I'm like no I wanNA watch again so we came across episode called Crocodile yet. I Don t know crocodiles but anyways it's because of the screens. Yeah no the screens. Yeah I know the screens when the implant on the head open the screen. Yeah yeah because it was like a crocodile mouth is that why yes. I didn't translate and me one bit So there was a bit. I don't we shouldn't have said the title of Kazan should've just been like this is what happened. But if you WANNA Gotcha when I'm telling you what the tighter anyways this woman spider to do and this is at a woman and she goes and kills the woman who's investigated in her. It's an insurance claim. Yeah Butch Otter investigate her so that she goes and kills this woman's husband witnesses because then nobody can vouch that the woman who went to say and then she sees as a baby in the room but he has a baby she goes in. But you don't say it but she kills the baby as well but then they realized that the baby was actually blind so she didn't actually need to kill a baby she didn't know the baby's blind so then the only thing left in the room that could use the memory from from white so well what we thought was a hamster so we like snapchat. Everyone like Oh my God this hamsters telling everyone happened and then. EDS is the video. So I can put the oil in the podcast. We'll watch it again and realize it wasn't it was a guinea pig but like it was just really funny because Jake's laughs just hilarious. Let's just point this. Outdoor the technology of this episode means that they can play as an implant on the side of your head look at a TV screen. See what you saw during a certain period of time and they did that with a hamster Guinea Pig Guinea pig. She was howling howling. Like I actually was about the jokes in the hamsters members and then they did it. China is so many people in my friend was like he realized. That's a pretty picky idiot and I was a guest. Listen to the last snapchat Jacor breeze trying to see a Guinea pig. We can retraction Here's the audio actually. GonNa they need to Botch it. Retraction live my life imams and has loads of like cry laughing phases Bach as well when check out this stuff and then t people awake with like all my life is actually staff slash game. Can I say I have an infectious laugh I love how despite everything was spoken on this episode. Sort of what can still laugh. And that's what's important. Even though the world is full of Shit horrible people you can still laugh the whole podcast. Anyway right she would get out here right. Thank you of listening. Don't forget Rio Ria on Stitcher cheeser and I tunes and email and CDOT podcasts. Dot Com next time for their letter E. exactly absolutely and we will see all these. That's which that actually you do. The deep one onto the high WANNA. I don't WanNa do the deep brain to one back to the degree I was froude.