20 Episode results for "Business Technology Advisor"
Seeking Climate Positivity by 2030, Ikea to Overhaul Entire Business
"New Year new budgets. Every small business has unique needs. That's why Dell small business advisers offer real time tailored advice on the best productivity activity solutions upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell D- from wondering I'm David Brown and this is business wars daily happy Friday friends. Twenty twenty could be the year when a new kind of rivalry moves front and center sustainability. We've seen it before as younger consumers increasingly demand environmental and social responsibility more and more companies are pledging to clean up their supply. Chains use recycled plastic shrink water. Use in fact we reported on such business where late last year when we talked about target and Walmart racing to outshine in each other's use of solar power this year expect this race to eco-friendliness to start becoming his. Commoner rivalries more traditional measures of success like sales in profits giant furniture retailer. Ikea kicked it off in December by pledging to invest two hundred million dollars to become climate positive by twenty thirty. What haven't heard the term climate positive. Well it means reducing more emissions than an organization emits. That's a big deal for global companies like Ikea which has more more than four hundred twenty stores worldwide in order to achieve climate positively. Kia can't just cut down on travel. Use more renewable energy it has to rethink how how it designs all of its inexpensive furniture in the first place along with how consumers shop for it and how they eventually get rid of it. According to Fast Company in Short Short Ikea's commitment demands an entire overhaul of its forty six billion dollar business battle include choosing new building materials committing to responsible forestry Korean reforestation and helping transform the operations of suppliers and behavior of customers. I keep promising to step up. Its push for circular economy KONAMI. meaning that everything gets reused rather than winding up in a landfill. I is not the only large company to pledge. Climate positively other major announcements have come from Businesses like fast fashion retailer H. M. which has pledged to achieve it by twenty forty but as the Wall Street Journal noted industry has yet to agree on what the term climate aamot. Positively actually means for instance. I Ki- wants to do it. Literally without using carbon offsets like planting trees to make up for plane travel for instance but other firms embrace carbon offsets actions available to them right now even if they may not be perfect choices. Well it may be obvious but success S. is far from guaranteed here as CNBC noted I- Kia recently win in the wrong direction. In two thousand eighteen. The company reported emissions of almost twenty seven in million tons of carbon dioxide equivalent or jump of three percent over twenty sixteen. Akia chalked that went up to company growth. The business has aggressive aggressive expansion plans including building new stores in India. One question facing any large companies how to reduce emissions while continuing to grow. That's something I ki- appears appears to be studying with out front on this issue. Will rival Walmart soon. Followed the climate positive. Pledge Walmart is the world's largest retailer meaning it can certainly make a sizeable dent in greenhouse gas emissions but the company hasn't taken that climate positive pledge yet. It has received attention for numerous green initiatives including plan to use one hundred percent. Renewable Energy by Twenty twenty-five Walmart also claims that by working with suppliers. It's on track to to avoid omitting a billion metric tons of emissions by twenty thirty. The pledges are simple the definitions and the work incredibly complex complex so watch. This space is sure to get really interesting the next year. I'm wondering this is business worse. Daily this week's episodes were written edited and produced by Elaine Appleton. Grand Portland is our editor and producer. Our Executive Producer Marshal Louis created by or non Lopez. For wonder I'm David Brown. We'll see you next week This episode of Business Wars daily is brought to you. You Buy Dell New Year new budgets every small business has unique needs when you partner with a Dell Small Business Technology Advisor. You get real. Time tailored advice vice. They'll even give you a free audit on your servers and storage devices to develop a custom solution to help improve your company's productivity plus right now upgrade upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors to speak with Adele adviser call eight seven seven by by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell.
Toyota to Build Carless City of the Future, in Japan
"New Year new budgets. Every small business has unique needs. That's why Dell small business technology advisers offer real time tailored advice on the best productivity activity solutions right now upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors call eight seven seven by by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell Dude from wondering. I'm David Brown. And this is business wars daily on this Tuesday January twenty first car companies are no longer simply building ending cars at least not Toyota. Whose ambitions now touch everything about our lives. Consider the company's latest big development Toyota plans to build a one hundred seventy any five acre city of the future in Japan. This living technology lab called the woven city will house two thousand people on the side of a former Toyota factory at the base of Mount Fuji. Live there and you'll get deliveries from autonomous cars tryout personal mobility devices and schedule trash pickup using the robot that lives in your house. Oh and all from within your fully sustainable zero emission home homes and buildings we powered by a combination of solar and geothermal energy and Toyota's hydrogen fuel cells all. This is according to announcements by Toyota earlier. This month at the consumer electronics show the name woven woven city reflects the unusual layout of the city streets. It'll have three different kinds. Each of which will allow only certain types of vehicles for instance on its main transportation. TATION roots autonomous. Vehicles will be allowed a second. Tier of streets will allow pedestrians and people getting around on personal mobility vehicles. Finally a park like promenade. manege level of streets will be designed for pedestrians. Only the streets will be woven together. In three blocks grids each block framing park. Naturally Toyota will run. Its own autonomous vehicles. The van like Palate e for retail and delivery of goods straight to people's homes notice. Anything missing right. There will be no drivable. drivable cars in this city designed by an automaker consider that for a minute transportation options and an entirely new way of laying out city streets. We'll be the only thing unusual about the woven city inside. It's smart homes will be robots that as Toyota says will assist people. With routine household chores like automatically medically restocking your fridge. South Verse Time of Vehicle Company is designed to laboratory like city from the ground up as a testbed for its vehicles in fact Toyota. GM and Ford Award already run one near Detroit for testing driverless cars. It's called 'em city but no one lives there. In contrast the woven city will house. Real the people you know humans. Toyota will invite its own employees. Of course prompting the verge to say this gives new meaning to the term company town but Toyota says it also welcomes TMZ interest from the public at large particularly academics and scientists but also industry partners itching to try out futuristic ideas and even retired couples alphabet. Google's parent company began developing. Its own city of the future in twenty seventeen. It originally planned to build a digital neighborhood on several hundred acres in the city of Toronto two. But since then it's seen its ambitions quashed by public opinion that development is now only twelve acres according to the verge the woven cities designed by Danish architecture. Firm Bianca ingles group that company known as big by the way designed the Lego Museum Google's new headquarters and even a simulation of a city on Mars. Ars Toyota's city of the future will break ground in twenty twenty one no word on what it will cost and it could be years before it's ready for residents and to some it seems seems like a technological ecological utopia one that may not come to pass. Lloyd Altar of the online publication tree hugger wrote. I hope hope it actually gets built in that. There is still snow Mount Fuji by the time. It's completed seven weeks from laundry. This business wars daily. Hey if you like waking up to our show every weekday taking a second hit that subscribed favorite podcast broadcast at William that way. He will listen single episode. IV David Ground. We'll be back with you. this episode of Business Wars George. Daly is brought to you by Dell New Year new budgets. Every small business has unique needs when you partner with Dell Small Business Technology Advisor. You get real. Hi tailored advice. They'll even give you a free audit on your servers and storage devices to develop a custom solution to help improve your company's productivity plus us right now upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off select business computers with Intel core processors to speak with Adele adviser call eight seven seven by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell.
PayByCar is Like EZ-PassFor Drive-Thrus
"Business. Daily is brought to you by Dell this month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y DA L L for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business worse daily. Happy Friday, one and hall, a startup called pay by car is giving a whole new meaning to the phrase pay at the pump. The Massachusetts company is pioneered away to use express toll transponders to pay for gas and other things. You buy while you're driving, like the chicken nuggets you're guilty, handing to your kids in the backseat. We see you mom, dad express toll transponders. Those little sensor, boxes, you keep in your car so you don't have to slow down and throw singles at a toll booth. Well, if you can pay on a highway without slowing down the founder of pay by car figured, why couldn't you do at this easily elsewhere turns out, you can pay by car launched its first test of this technology last week in a Boston suburb, the launch relies on the easy pass transponder system used in seventeen states set up payback car account and input, your payments source like a credit card. Hard or digital wallet antenna at the gas station will send your transponder as you drive up and send a text to your phone asking if you wanna use pay by car to purchase gas text. Yes. And the gas pump will automatically turn on when you're done. It'll be charged your account that old onerous task of pulling out your wallet and sticking your credit card the gas pump gone for now. The pilot system works, only at one gas station in westboro, Massachusetts, but pay by car in visions, a day, soon, when thirty five million easy pass user, simply driving through gas stations fast food, restaurants, coffee, shops, and even auto part stores ordering what they need and moving on currently pay by car competes with common payment methods like credit cards and your digital wallet. But the startup is actually trying to get to market ahead of General Motors Honda, those automakers are developing dashboard, payment systems that will be baked right into your vehicle, whether a transponder. Wander base system, or one built into your car itself. These easy payment methods may seem like they give back time to stress commuters. But they really benefit merchants not consumers, because scientists shown that the easier, it is to pay for something, the less, we think about it, and the more we spend think about that as you take off on your weekend road trip. Why don't you? From what this business wars daily. No, don't think about that. You've got better things to think about this week's episodes were written at today, produced by lane apple to grant, edited, and produced by Emma Cortlandt, our executive producer Marshall Louis created by or non locals for wondering, I'm David Brown. Have a great weekend. We'll see extra. Businessworld daily is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the communities made a huge difference as thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dell.
Lets Get Crafty: Boston Beer Buys Dogfish Head
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From one day, I'm David Brown. And this is business wars daily on this Tuesday may twenty-first these days, it's not easy being a beermaker craft beers have become victims of their own success. The fizzy artisanal stuff is become so popular that being a beer, entrepreneurs, practically an occupational category of its own craft beer battles are enough to send any beer company, owner to drink. You saw that one coming, right? Especially nowadays, because beer-drinking is actually well shrinking, which brings us to the latest in craft beer collaboration, Boston beer, the company behind Sam Adams is buying dogfish head ale for three hundred million dollars, but this acquisition is not actually about the bruise, according to Boston beer, founder, Jim cook beer sales are losing market share to wine and hard liquor. According to the beer institute, so savvy brewers like Boston beer are turning to alter. Unitive 's although sales of its flagship beverage, Boston lager, fell by double digits last year, apparently customers were pounding down. It's hard cider in spike seltzer. Now cook is thinking ahead trying to figure out not what next year's beverages should be. But what the next decades drinks should be. That's where dogfish head founder, Sam Kelly. Joni comes in. It looks like coke wanted Caledonia's well known creativity just as much as dogfish is successful sour beers. And as why for two reasons, actually, I because the seven thousand strong craft beer market is unlikely to get any less competitive second because big beer has been buying its way into the microbrews market since twenty eleven bud. Light maker Anheuser-Busch has been on a buying spree acquiring. At least ten brewers from coast to coast. Today, the king of beers is the country's largest craft brewer believe it or not for the owner. Her of Sam Adams that kind of competition calls for innovation and dogfish. Head's Cal Joni has a reputation for quirky creativity. He started dogfish years ago, making beer out of overripe cherries in a homemade still in his dorm room. He's out on a limb enough that a two thousand eight New Yorker profile of him featured, a photo of the entrepreneur, apparently naked sitting in a beer barrel. Plastered with mash, the picture suggests who knows exactly what he'll come up with next that out of the barrel. Thinking is just what Boston beers cook is making a bet on he wants called Cal Joni. Fearless as Boston beer faces competition from above Anheuser Busch. And from below bows. Crappier makers a little fearlessness could go a long way. From what we, this is business wars daily era in history. This much Cesca. Well, what about yours truly see if you're learning something every day listening to us, give us a rating in a review on apple podcasts and watch out for beer wars over on business? Thanks bunch. I'm David Brown. We'll see tomorrow. Business. Daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free external hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
With Bare-Bones Pricing, Grocer Aldi Attracts Devout Fans
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From one I'm David Brown. And this is business words daily on this Wednesday may twenty ninth. You know, that weekly grocery shopping, Bill, plus all the little side trips for stuff. I forgotten it really adds up. And so I'm all ears when I hear about ways to shrink it just like most American consumers, but with grocery margins already slammed the opportunities for supermarkets to lower prices are rare. Well, that's a mismatch and business opportunity millions of shoppers looking for deals, but most grocers are loath to cut their profits further, enter the German discount, grocery chain Aldy, which has eighteen hundred stores in America Aldy is so stripped down that it'll cost you twenty five cent deposit to rent a grocery card, and don't even think about having an employee bag your groceries. None on, on, on how you better come prepared to work. Turns out shoppers are willing to put in a little effort and a few quarters to save a buck CNN. Reports that all the is so popular that it has its own fan blog and a Facebook group with get this fifty thousand members why. Because for many price matters more than service, especially if you can get low prices without sacrificing quality. It's a particularly challenging time in the grocery business with Amazon, having bought ho foods, two years ago, some of the challenges inspired by all the itself, which is expanding aggressively in the US over the next year it plans to open one hundred thirty new stores, and they expect to have twenty five hundred stores in America by twenty twenty two which would make it the third largest grocer in the nation right behind WalMart and Kroger. And as it grows all these ability to keep prices, all tr- low, think ninety nine cents for a gallon of milk. It's forcing WalMart to cut its prices. That's saying something in July twenty seventeen a basket of forty common groceries cost about fifty six dollars at Aldy about twelve dollars less. S then at WalMart CNN reports that WalMart has since lowered some of those prices to shrink that competitive gap. So what's a competitor to do? It's not easy to satisfy everybody all the time, WalMart sales jumped higher this quarter is customers embraced online shopping an in store pickup, adding more service in contrast to all these do it yourself economy model and WalMart, along with other major grocers, like Kroger and delays, which owns Hannaford and foodline have one thing going for them. That Alday doesn't choice you see in a typical store all the offers only about fourteen hundred products. Most of them private-label, that's a tiny fraction of the one hundred thousand items on the shelves at a WalMart. Supercenter CNN says sure price matters, and while all the does pose a threat to WalMart. It's hardly busting the mammoth chains business just yet in twenty eighteen all these US sales, topped sixteen billion dollars. It higher than whole foods, but nowhere close to WalMart sales of more than five hundred billion dollars at those volumes. Walmart can afford to cut some prices and bag your groceries for you. Don't you think? From this business wars daily. We'd love to know more about you quick favor. And visit wondering dot com slash survey answered coupla questions would you thanks about I'm David Brown. We'll see. Business worse. Daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business month celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free external hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
For Competitive Edge in Womens Co-Working Space, The Wing Partners with HBO
"Business. Daily is brought to you by Dell this month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven B you ideal L for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown. And this is business wars daily on this Thursday may sixteenth co working spaces are big business these days as the number of solo preneurs in the country grows, so too, does the demand for independent office spaces, but a lesser known phenomenon has been gaining a lot of steam over the last few years co working spaces designed for women most big cities have at least one or two born from the same entrepreneurial zeal. Shared by the audiences are intended to serve some of these companies have international ambitions, consider the wing, which now has offices in New York, San Francisco, Washington, DC, Los Angeles, and Chicago. There are more on the way including one in London. Now the wing offers co working features, tailored, specifically to women that includes offices that are, you know, warm enough cafes lactation rooms, Instagram worthy common spaces, and frequent networking events, but the facilities aren't the real draw. The wing is heavily marketing itself as a social club, dedicated to women's empowerment, it's even inked and agreement with time's up, the nonprofit devoted to safety and equity for working women. The wing is community first office space second founded in twenty sixteen. The wing has raised more than one hundred million dollars. That's a huge amount of the new women's co working market, but it's a far cry from we work, which is set to go public soon. We works owner sports controversial valuation of almost fifty billion dollars. If that sounds like a tough rivalry will look under the covers and you'll see that we work is a wing investor the company's hedging its bets, don't, you know, projecting that demand for women. First spaces is only going to grow. And as it does the wing is doing everything it can to ensure it's top of mind it's been entering into high profile partnerships, such as one with h. HBO the wings helping HBO promote the new season of the hit show. Big little lies. It'll host advance screenings in many cities and even a panel discussion with Reese, Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman and Meryl Streep, but the wing is not alone in cultivating starpower arrival. Women's co working chain called the Riveter has featured events with Facebook's Sheryl Sandberg, and US Senator Tammy Duckworth, by the way, in case you slept through history class, the Riveter is named for World War two's, famous feminist icon, Rosie like the wing. The Riveter is well funded. It's raised more than thirty million dollars so far. It has seven locations and Embiid to operate one hundred around the globe. Both the river and the wing. Call themselves women Centric, meaning men can join it's not a philosophical choice before it changed its stance. The wing was sued for gender discrimination, and with membership starting around two thousand dollars a year. It's also been the object of criticism that it's designed primarily for. Affluent women, while the wing may be grabbing attention in the market. It is by no means the clear winner. In addition to battling with the Riveter, it's also competing with growing numbers of smaller local women's co working businesses, especially in trendy cities like Los Angeles. Denver in Seattle term success is far from guaranteed. But, you know, maybe that's the key to success, potent mix van Bishen and uncertainty that spurring innovation innovation. That's pushing the wing out the traditional co working box. From one three. This is business wars. Daily Haiti life are take on the news shares with a friend. And if you're a member of co working space drop line to your colleague. Thanks bunch. I'm David Browner will see tomorrow. Businessworld daily is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the communities made a huge difference as thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dell.
"The month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership. Sleepwalk is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions. Every single thing that you do on social network, or on a website is essentially recorded, how many pages visited what did you click on? How did you get to that website? More page to, to leave on. How many photos, have you ever applauded way were those photos uploaded, how many places have you checked into who have you tagged, what photographs of being tagged in with whom way with Hispanic graphs, taken, who's annual friendship circle to school with there are algorithms and machine learning technologies? That's connect all of that base together and starts to find patterns. That's loose Italian Moretti, speaking. She's a digital sociologist and tech ethics advocate with a big focus on data. I think some the days of that's quite concerning is facial recognition technology, where machines are being fed. Hugh. Huge amounts of images pictures of people's faces, and that can come from dating websites from photographs view on Facebook, or Instagram or anywhere on the internet. You don't even have to upload. It yourself it could be somebody else that's uploaded four year with all that data out in the wild all it takes for somebody to suck it up, and they can start connecting the dots so they were research, as last year from Stanford University who without the uses permission scraped city thousand photographs from a dating websites, that was public rights, or they took it that they could just use those photographs for research because it was a dating sites. People were also asked the dais appoints. What is your sexual orientation, so gay straight by right? And so they had all of that data connected, so they could then connect faces to sexual orientation, and essentially, they Bolton an algorithm that they said. Could detect just by somebody's face. If they were gay, Australia or by the algorithm worked, it could predict sexual orientation from photographs with ninety one percent accuracy for men and eighteen three percent accuracy for women based on just five photographs and Stanford isn't the only place using facial recognition to categorize people governments are too all around the world. This is sleep workers. Welcome. I must Voloshin in the last episode we looked at what happens when art visual intelligence. Digests huge data sets to find patterns and make predictions like what's the most typical movie synopsis, or is that more cancerous but advances in machine learning are also making us more and more legible in today's episode, we ask what happens when we become the data set and the power to predict is turned on us, his Lisa. Again, the extra terrifying thing is why creates this kind of technology like who does it serve? Why do we need this? If you take this type of technology feed it to a city wide CCTV surveillance system and say the new goes for place like Saudi Arabia where being gays considered a crime. And suddenly, you're just what pulling people if the street in arresting them because you're gay. The computer said sorry. So like now you're going to prison. This may sound like a terrifying minority report style future. But actually it's here today. I is so least it was talking about what happens when governments don't to connect the dots of all this data, but is already happening with private enterprise, for example, insurance, companies can now see someone who joins a Facebook group about a genetic mutation and use that data to guess that, that person may have the genetic mutation the condition that's associated. And then the computer says less raise their premium all let's deny them care. And so we can use this proccedings to do something, the New York Times as recently cooled proxy discrimination, and I think something that's even more widely applicable is this definition of surveillance capitalism, which is essentially that data is not just data anymore. It's money companies can use data to make predictions about future behavior. And that can make them prophet. Right. That's surveillance, capitalism, using information about joining a Facebook group to make an insurance decision. Right. And it's I don't know. It's a little bit scary in the US is all about capitalism. But in other countries surveillance is used for other purposes, for example, in China, it's about social control, but in China, this same massive ingestion of data and statistical modeling is used for governance. So let's take a closer look at China and how they're using technology to amplify the power of the state. They have this notion of a Social Credit score which is how good of a citizen you are. According to the government, they have literally hundreds of millions of cameras around, and they can basically do things like you've been out at the bar you until to the last couple of nights. That's not really what a good upstanding citizen would do so your Social Credit score can get dinged because you've been spending, too much time at night at a bar that stoked out Kilpatrick. He and Mary Heskitt co-founded brink. Identity FA chal recognition company that can recognize uses face in. Yes. The blink of an eye about no point four seconds his blinked co-founder Mary on Chinese surveillance. They have cameras. So you're recorded jaywalking. And so your score goes down, you know. And you automatically get a ticket, which, again, doesn't sound like that. Big of a deal, if you really believe in law, and order, except if your scores and high enough, you can't buy a plane ticket. You have to travel by bus. Yeah. You can't live in certain areas, and you can, obviously see how this could be abused. I mean it doesn't take much imagination other factors that can bring down your Social Credit school include what you. By the stool, you'll online browsing and even having a friend with a low school, this use of generalised surveillance can keep a whole population in check, which is more or less explicit goal of the communist party of China. This can be stifling for the average Han Chinese citizen for minorities. It can be much, much worse. Right. You know, more specifically and more dauntingly it can be used for tournament. You know, in the case of the weaker minority, in China using data that has been created by this minority to just communicate you know, one person communicating with another person. Those who connected the both wages, right? Five week is a gathering the same place now that we know that, you know what are we going to do that data? Oh, we're going to send these people to reeducation camps, and as technology improves. So does the state's ability to project power China today is cleaning the floor with the Americans on voice and facial recognition technology. That's the umbrella an expert on global. Critical risk. And the founder of the Eurasian group, the Chinese have much more data. You also have a government that is consolidating the data and allocating it for different types of purposes, and you have no presumption of privacy whatsoever. With no presumption of privacy. The amount of data you can collect from your citizens grows exponentially. And that actually gives you a huge technological advantage. This is how Lee explains it. What makes a algorithm? Walk better is how much they you used to train it. And that's the beauty of deep learning you just keep throwing day the edits and just performs better unkindly understands this world better than most. His fund sign of Asian ventures has invested in make v a facial recognition company valued at full billion dollars. Kaifu also run Google China. So he knows the landscape, China simply has more day than the US do to not only the large number of users, but also the death in which Chinese users use. As the internet for ordering food for shared bicycles for mobile payments. So the AI Lashley just perform better because his train more data some of that data is taken from citizens using surveillance, but according to Kaifu much is freely given I think the Chinese culture and the Chinese people are more pragmatic. So that's if the software, the livers pragmatic value. They ask fewer questions for example, you know, we've funded an app that loans money to you ask you a couple of questions and it takes data from your phone at the same level as a Facebook would take data from your phone, and it's apps the money to you instantly, if it decides to lend money to you, I think, in the US people might question do I really want to give my data to a lending application and is appropriate to consider the makeup, my phone as a part of me, giving me money or my zip codes, because that might reflect? Certain things about me, the breadth, and depth of data in China, both from a larger population and a much deeper integration with technology gives China a serious competitive advantage. We are the Americans have much better. Scientists the Chinese are able to buy a lot of science. Now, when you talk to specialists in this field, they will tell you that in many parts of AI, great data, and okay. Scientists will frequently beat great. Scientists in okay? Data. Tower. The scary thing is that China is using that titan logical superior authority to build a very different kind of state one in which the price of dissent is intolerably high. You know, so quoting to in public demonstrations have fallen markedly right? Because if you know, you're being watched, you're probably less likely to commit public displays of civil disobedience, right? We talked about the week earlier in cash cow, which is a Muslim city in China. We have to register to go into the mosque and once they're inside. They face a Bank of cameras, like many, many surveillance cameras and go figure Muslims stopped going to most voluntarily will because going to mosque is an of civil disobedience where they are even if it's not explicitly stated, it's, it's heavily implied, right? I mean, I think about it for myself, like if I were living in an area in the United States where going to temple was going to land me in an internment camp. I would not be going voluntarily. If I knew there were security cameras. All over my temple. Absolutely. And the crazy thing is you wouldn't even have to know if those security cameras what it's like on the most winning and we have a lot of speed cameras and knows with our. She doing this thing from once every five years, you've got a ticket, but it's still slows people down the panopticon, even if they can't do that. But people think they can do that, right? I mean you don't need one hundred percent certain to you just need a government, that is starting to get that capacity and make it known and have a few people that are sort of strung up as examples and suddenly, everyone scared, and this is only happening in China. According to Ian, it was a key part of Bouchon at Assad strategy in the Syrian civil wool Assad. Got some help from the Russians who gave him a couple hundred computer scientists to go in work with the Syrian military and identify on social media on text messaging who were those Syrian citizens that were nodes of dissent. And within six months. No more moderate opposition in Syria. They specifically were looking into individual Syrian citizens that were saying things about the regime that were untoward that were connected to influencers that were helping to organize protests. And suddenly, you know, a bunch of those people were rounded up and some were never heard from again. And as I mentioned, in terms of China, you don't have to do that with many people before people start writing out their friends being scared of talking to anyone not going out the system worked. We may feel comfortably far from the battlefields of Syria here in the US. And from the overwhelming number of surveillance cameras on practically every street corner in China, but the more effective these technologies are the more like today are to be adopted by others. Now in other countries, you're going to have a conflicts of both them liking the model and the Chinese directly exporting who are those countries. Well, look at one belt one road, the, you know, trillion plus dollar investments that the Chinese are making all over the world Pakistan, southeast Asia Cambodia allow a whole bunch of countries. And when you look at those countries, and you see the Chinese are providing the money in this conditionality in return some that conditionality is used Chinese standards for technology. That's in many of these contracts. And with the spread of Chinese standards of technology comes the spread of Chinese styles surveillance, which could ultimately make the whole world trend mole Thor -tarian, so as that happens these. Governments are going to say we get the money from China. We used their technology. We're stuck with their system, but we can use it to ensure that our peoples, they empowered again, it's easy to let all of this field, comfortably far away. But remember, the incident doesn't have borders. So you don't have to be in China for the Chinese state to access your data. Yeah. I don't know how many people know this, but grinder is actually owned by Chinese company grinder the dating. Yes. And actually there have been articles about the fact that the US government is trying to force China's hands so that we can buy it back, because there's so much user data that this company now owns while that growing to use. The data is basically being seen by the US government as a strategic asset. It is a strategic asset. I mean, if you think about it if somebody is on a military base or in a Barrick and trying to connect with someone on Grindr, they're turning their location services data on because they want to see. People in their area. And if they're turning that location services data on their basically making themselves vulnerable to the company that owns the data because it's basically saying here I am here. I am here. I am here. I am. And I'm gay and that can lead some possibilities of blackmail, even today. Exactly. There was an article in the interface that was written by guy. Casey. Newton chat history. Photos, videos, real time, location, all of that is connected to a user's Email address, and that means that the users identity can be very easily learned. That's pretty scary. And even if you don't use grind, you might use clash of clans, or fortnight, which very popular gaming apps. Also, by the Chinese now, we keep saying the Chinese to be clear, these apps on owned by the Chinese government. Right. Right. That owned by Chinese companies, the actions of the US government imply by trying to fool this companies to sell grinder back is that they don't believe in the distinction. Right. And do you think the US government would really be worth? Working that hard to get back, a gay dating app if they didn't think that there was not a murky separation between the government and companies in China. Right. So every time we give data away, I mean, we're aware that it opens us up to targeted ads on Facebook. We told you about those with Kellyanne. We're not aware that, that data may end up in the hands of potentially hostile foreign government. So once again, sleepwalking, we've been to Huma, how foreign governments are using AI the when we come back, we'll look at how the police and coots using it at home in America. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as a thank you during small business month. Dell is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell fatigue advice, and one of them, punish ship. Cara. It's easy to look at China and to see the big bad wolf. Now using surveillance technology, full the wholesale suppression of an ethnic minority have a Social Credit school that can emit access to opportunities and even travel. But algorithms also determine outcomes here in the US exactly if you think about it, we do use social ratings if you use Uber and have a rating lower than four to five stars. You can't get a car, right? And you can't get alone. If you have a low FICO credit score and criminal Justice system. Also uses algorithm ratings to decide people's fates. When I got arrested I sixteen I was in high school. John F Kennedy high school. That's Len Rodriguez when he was a baby Glen's mother was murdered. And when he was three his father committed suicide from then on lamb was raised by his grandmother. And he searched for belonging. Kid who wants to accept it wants to feel a part of something. Right. Whatever the group was up for I was down. And if they were going one step forward, I would take tool we pretty much plan a robbery at a car dealership in queens, and we entered the premises we took three cars. There was a twenty five year old man in there and he initially pulled a gun and so I had a gun and I shot him, Glenn was arrested and convicted of second degree murder. He was sentenced to twenty five years in jail, and he was still a high schooler you feel powerless, you feel hopeless, especially at that age. So the way I so I was this is my life, you know, I'm probably going to die in jail. And so, whatever it is that I have to do I need to survive. One of the things that I learned very quickly is that in prison. One of the only things that is respected is violence. And so in order for you to survive in there, you have to be violent because. Otherwise, you become prey in time, Glenn established his reputation and starts to feel safer with that security and getting older. His thinking began to change and it wasn't until later to like my mid twenties, when I started saying, you know what I need to reverse this trend if I want to have any chance at parole, Glenn had to reverse thirteen years of behavior to survive in prison. He had learned to behave one way. But to get out he had to behave another Irbil myself of the puppies behind bars program. So I was training service dogs for one veterans for five years, that was an amazing experience. Right because throughout incarceration. It's almost like you build a wall around yourself with the dogs, you can't fake it. What a dog if you're trying to teach them command, sometimes you may have to be silly, which guess what imprison being silly is not acceptable. That's perceived as a weakness, but with that program oftentimes, you had to resort to being silly and throwing yourself on the floor and giggling, loud, or making all kinds of crazy sounds to try to. Get the dogs attention, right? To a very large extent. I believe that, that program kind of helped me regain my humanity as when is helping Glen, personally taking part in prison programs for the public good is looked upon favorably by parole boards, everything I did. I wanted to document the kind of showcase what I've done. This is why am today as part of the process. There's also the compass risk-assessment compass stands for correctional offender management. Profiling for alternative sanctions. It's an algorithm that claims to be able to predict how likely a defendant, is to commit another crime, based on a list of one hundred thirty seven questions since being developed in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight it's estimated compass has been used to assess more than one million defendants, including Glenn, you meet with this person, a few months before your schedule parole board day, and they actually a series of questions. And so when he got to the disciplinary history section of the compass risk-assess. There was a list of offenses right for him to check off. Yes or no? For the past twenty four months and it was all known anyone who has any experience with prison with tell you that, that is almost impossible to do. Right. Because misbehavior reports can be for something as simple as having too many pillows, something as simple as your parents hanging off your bought your sneakers untied. It takes a lot of energy to dodge him as a report during the course of a year. Let alone ten and in my case, I had been eleven. And then I heard him read the question. And he says, does this person appear to have notable disciplinary issues, and he says, yes. And I was like, hold up. Wait a second. Did I just hear you? Right. Because I just heard you say that I have notable disciplinary issues do realize that I haven't had a misbehavior report in over a decade. Right. And his answer was well, I was told that if there's any instance of misbehavior at any point, I have to check. Yes for this answer. So I was like, okay so at that point, there was nothing. I could do. I'm a peering before the parole board panel. I present it to them a portfolio that was approximately one hundred pages had twenty five letters of support. Now, the compass is saying that I'm a disciplinary issue. And so I shouldn't be released. I was denied because of the fact that I scored high on compass. They played it safe and kept me in. It may have been less than five minutes. The hearing, I waited twenty-six years to sit in front of a panel of three people for less than five minutes. No one wants to be the one to go against compass next to, you know, something goes wrong. And now your job is on the line because you departed From Compass, which is taken as factual and scientific. In time. Glenn went before another parole board and this time they freed him against the recommendation of compass. And now Danas is built a life for himself, while he with teenagers at risk of incarceration at the center for community will tentatives but he's still being affected by the algorithm. Compass does not end upon your release, because the, the same compass risk assessment that's considered a for your release determines out. You're going to be supervised upon release is a number of restrictions that I have I have a curfew, I'm still haunted by compass despite Chinese life around, compass is still limiting Glenn's freedom, a national wound. All of us, according to propublica, compass inaccurately labels black defendants as likely to re-offend twice as often as white defendants algorithm, me discrimination, isn't government policy here in the US like it is against the week is in China, but it's still exist. There's this issue where you can have computer scientists building a more accurate algorithm. But on account of dubious input factors like gender or race or religion. You've created something that's unconstitutional. That's Jason Tesha. He introduced us Glenn, and he's the founder of Justice codes and Legal Affairs. Writer for the American Baugh, association journal. There's this predisposition to believe that math doesn't carry all of the biases that humans do it's an objective science. I think we need to dispel, that idea Jason is describing very human habit of taking computer output as gospel truth is cold automating bias, and is why parole boards often don't feel comfortable overriding, algorithms, like, compass, and why some people follow that GPS, even when it has them driving into the ocean as idea that somehow because math is and underlying force to these tools. Makes them more objective or beyond certain types of scrutiny is wrong. Computer, algorithms of being used to determine human fate today. Whether it's compass in the US or the Social Credit school in China, so we have to scrutinize them and understand that output is not necessarily neutral. The foundational principle of AI is using historical data to predict what will happen next and that in itself is a challenge to our culture because the American dream is built on the idea that we have a capacity to change that we can move from rags to riches from the penitentiary to the boardroom and is not just an American narrative. It's Scrooges change of heart delivering the Turkey to the crutches on Christmas day. It's supposed conversion on the road to Damascus. It's at the very heart of western culture, but algorithms like compass on built to see the potential in people that Zion to calculate risk, based on past actions and compass, isn't there, Nick sample of algorithms being used in all? Justice system when we come back, we go right inside the NYPD to understand how new technology is powering policing. Are you following your passion? I'm Carla Murray, the host of side, Hustler's I talked to people following their passion outside of their regular job. Everyone either has a side hustle, or wants to create a side hustle. Get inspired to start your own business, or just hear the story and hustle of every side hustler. Get motivated with side Hustler's. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio app at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It's a freezing cold day Neo kitty. When we arrive at the MVP headquarters, and before we even get into the main building, Julian, I have to pass through apple style security, a naturally give up some data including submitting a selfie Keells. Yes. Right now society is holding big conversations about body cameras police accountability and government monitoring. So we had to ask, how does one of the most recognizable police forces in the world handle data. My name is Benjamin singleton. I'm director of analytics at the NYPD like probably spend half my day writing code in half my day in meetings, the police department collects records as a regular course of business. We respond to nine one one calls. We take crime reports. We make arrests. We issue, moving summonses when you, you know, speed in the city, these are examples of the kind of data that we collect, you know, I think there's probably some sentiment that they're back doors into various systems. But the NYPD is governed by the same legal processes any other law enforcement agency. If we want data from an outside company, or vendor, we get a search warrant from a judge, or through DA's office issue, a subpoena, and that's how we collect our data their cameras throughout the subways swipe calls at ten styles and easy. Pastas on the roads and more kneel. So what might damn why PD know about me, if you haven't sort of stood in front of a police officer who hasn't taken report. My hand. We probably don't have records on you that being said, we do collect data through sensors like license plate readers, and we do have data sharing agreements with some other criminal Justice agencies like corrections like the courts, and so there's obviously opportunities for that kind of data to enter our realm. But one thing that's built into every single white PD -application is an auditing track. So anytime you look at any piece of information, no matter what system you're in, that's being audited. And so we have a very large internal affairs bureau and people have gotten in trouble before for misuse of computer systems. And so, I think that, that's an important check, that's reassuring to have. Why can make so much data in the first place? I think that the next frontier of machine learning in policing is bringing decisions and information into the hands of cops who need to make decisions quickly. We recently rolled out tens of thousands of mobile phones to all of our cops and. Putting computer in their hands as really changed the way that they police when you have more information you can make better decisions so we could be responding to a job at a specific location in a building. And we know what's happened at that building before we responded to nine one one calls there last week in apartment, you know, foresee, and in that interaction it led to some sort of altercation, or we found out that, that person that we interacted with had some sort of issue, will the cop who's working today might not be the same cop who's working week ago. And so how do I convey that information maybe in a phone as a as a pop up as a notification that tells you take extra time, take caution, this sort of incident happened using data to give offices context is hard to argue against if he can lead to safer interactions for everyone? But of course, what many people find more concerning is ambient surveillance today. That happens all the time and despite much pressure. The NYPD has yet to release an explicit facial recognition. Policy, and where do the effort stand on facial recognition technology are facial identification section which sits under the detective bureau is a group of trained. Detectives investigators. They use a tool and algorithm that compares faces that we might get from a surveillance photo and they run that algorithm. Get potential matches and then conduct an investigation it's not as simple as you know, a facial recognition hit occurs, and that's suddenly licensed to make an arrest. It doesn't generate probable cause for us. We still require much more evidence in order to make a determination that, that hit is truly viable, and something we can act on there are cases where that technology has been used as part of an arrest or prosecution. In the absence of an explicit policy. Ben wasn't able to answer the question live in the room, but we did get a statement from there. My PD the NYPD has moved deliberately and responsibly in the use of facial recognition software that is no NYPD case where an arrest or prosecution was brought on the basis of facial recognition. The NYPD uses it on a case by case basis. And the case must always be supported by further investigation before any arrest is made the PD has absolutely no interest in wholesale surveillance, which would be an enormous an entirely pointless. Toss. We have little choice but to trust. But that said, Ben dispeat- convincingly about how the white PD actually uses technology to police themselves. Also statistical tools around fairness, that can actually measure whether an algorithm is fair, whether it's causing bias at cetera. And so we're very interested in utilizing these metrics and we fully embrace them. We, we wanna get better and we're taking a conservative approach because we know how high stakes this is the stakes are high. And the path is murky. I didn't know what to expect to them. Why PD with they help to Mayes purely for reducing crime or they take a broader view of Justice Fezzani? I found Ben reassuring, but the potential for abuse remains. So how do we here in America God against that abuse? Well, let's pretend to marry skit who founded blink identity with Alex Kilpatrick anytime you're using face. Without consent. It's gonna get abused because why wouldn't it and, and here's the problem. I don't think it's appropriate to ask a police department to just voluntarily not use a tool. That's awesome for them. I mean you need to have a different level you need to have your, you know, governor, federal state, some government governing body needs to be saying, sorry, this is not appropriate. This is violating people's rights. The difference between what is happening in China. And in the US is not technological. It's cultural and political and would Snowden how to phrase for this turn key tyranny. Meaning the technical infrastructure of mass surveillance order exists, and the only protected by values and our laws and thinking of China, I think there are some profoundly creepy things that we are right on the edge of starting to see. There's cameras everywhere, if you add face recognition, it's not just. Oh, they saw my face. They saw that I went to Starbucks. It's where you were every day. Every time all of our history and all that get saved. It's my pattern of where I go when I'm outdoors forever. Five years ago, I would have said that could never happen here part of the reason, Mary has so much about privacy is that she knows how quickly facial recognition is spreading. In fact, in two thousand eighteen blink identity, raise money from live nation to get most parent company to allow fuchsia comes that goes to use their faces instead of that tickets. We wanted to be a case study of how to do this in a way that preserves individual privacy and respects the individual and maybe that will help set a precedent and maybe some of these other objectionable use cases just won't be able to take off facial recognition and other technologies are being developed all over the world and we can't trust everyone to be as conscientious as Mary, and Alex in America, the liberty we take for granted is hard won and fragile and cases like Glenn show. What can happen when algorithms of blindly trusted to determine. Outcomes so much hangs in the balance right now about technological future, and the decisions we take will affect our lives, profoundly and echo through the lives of our children to, I mentioned, shells, Dickins Christmas, Carol Elia to me, one of the most powerful scenes in the book is Scrooge seeing for the first time the chains has made fame self through his own decisions nowadays. We would call those decisions and those chains longitudinal data and be very hard to get rid of the record that Len couldn't shake the mind, deny a Chinese citizen, a plane ticket or deny you health insurance. Because if you'll social meteoric tippety, but data can also said has free in the next episode. We investigate. What's possible when our data is used to help us from a dying man broke bacteria's youth to movies and music that read out bodies while they play. And what happens when Alexa becomes part of the family. Don. I don't know if that one, I am still learning more about dinosaurs. You some dinosaur trivializing John. Sleepwalk is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions for the latest news live interviews, and behind the scenes footage, find us on Instagram at sleepworks podcast all because podcasts dot com special, thanks, this episode to Laurie heirloom and Lucy. Brady sleep wilko's is hosted by me, Voloshin, and co hosted by me care price, with produced by Julian wetter with help from yucca penzo, and Taylor SHA. Coin mixing by trista McNeil, and Julian Wella Australia is Matthew riddle recording systems this episode from Dnepr racial London and fill budget. Because is executive produced by me, also notion and manga had to get more podcasts from out radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percents off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. Fatigue advice, and one on one partnership.
Delta CEO Ed Bastian on why he's spending big on airports
"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Dell. This month's Dell is thinking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership and by Salesforce, today's customers want innovative personal experiences from companies and Salesforce, customer relationship. Management solution can help learn how Salesforce springs customers and companies together at Salesforce dot com slash learn more. Good morning to by servants. He really. Everybody kind of Risdon for this episode of the corner office podcast. We are out at LAX the Los Angeles International airport. Winning for my guest to get off his plane. Ed bastion is the CEO of Delta Airlines, one of the biggest airlines in the world, it's job bastion has had since two thousand sixteen which was incidentally, the last time I talked to him for this podcast as it happens today, his plane, got in just a couple of minutes early to see how are you? So you start sorta cost you right off the flight. They want to put your bags down give him to somebody. What do you wanna do? That'd be given fixed time. Thanks. No. Thanks for making the time. Why first of all, are you here? We have our global sales conference. We continue under salespeople from around the world, and we've got a two day conference. I'm going to speak to that. But also got a bunch of meetings with some local folks and some growth were thus being here building last year. It got some investors, as we as we walk and talk about first of all, where we are. Tell me where we are. We are right here in terminals to. And three the new LAX that we are building. Got an opportunity to almost double the size of our footprint here in LA was we get done over the next several years. Why do you need more footprint? I mean that's going to sound like a basic question. But well, first of all, our, our infrastructure, as we all know our airports in the US are need a multi generational belt, improve security, flows and cute improved technology. And on top of that Delta's drawing her, we've got a got a great group of people here are operations have doubled over the last five years, and we need more room. So you're spending two billion heared LAX right as you wave to random people as they go by twelve billion over. All right. Twelve million all of our the airport every Russia, right? Right. Tell, tell me what the conversation was like where you said. All right, folks, we need to spend twelve billion dollars to make our facilities nicer in the infrastructure better. Well, we're these are long term bets. We're out here for ill looking at twenty thirty four. Forty years of investment. So the cumulative effect that's a big number. But when you think about that this is a franchise that, that continues to grow and it's to be invested in, in the air. We I think we've done a great job, a modernizing the experience. We need to do the same thing on the ground. Do think the people in this room today and, you know, for the next forty years, do you think they know the delta spend all this money? Do you think they air? Why don't they care? I think they want improved security flow. I think they want improved amenities. They want to be able to use wifi that works. They want to be able to stay connected. I think it matters a lot and we're building, we're building. If you think about it in this in this country ill new airports to just change the total flow, you know, in the past the airports, were designed, so they'll allow the real estate was on the front of the airport, the had houses with big art, architecture or restaurant was last time you spend time in the head of an airport Danielle, so we need to flip the real estate around, too. So we have more room for people to circulate be able to shop be able to. To, to take time before they board. And we don't know really the front door almost needs to be the security queue. This is going to air on the fifteenth or so. But I'm going to break that fourth wall and point out that the president today on the thirtieth. I guess had a big meeting about infrastructure in the White House. The Democrats are saying he wants to spend two trillion dollars on all kinds of infrastructure. Not just airports. Do you think that's enough? I don't know. I think our country needs a significant investment in so I can just really speak now by industry course. Yeah. We need modernized airports. They modernize air traffic control systems. We need to continue to grow. Our fleets technology is, is a big need for us as we quit ourselves for the future. So the, it's a big number. I don't know what the size of it is before us. I it's it's in the multi billions d do you think commercial aviation the way we're doing it today is sustainable, not in the climate sense? Right. I mean, yes, there's emissions in jets and all that. But in the in the sheer business model sense because you got crowd. You got infrastructure problems. You've got security problems. It can we? Keep doing this this way. Absolutely. No. I think I think when you think about the reason why people are traveling is they're, they're more adventures. They want explore the internet social media ill our society. Now has more awareness of what's going on around them that anytime in our past technology has also brought the close to travel down the realize the cost of travel in an airplane is forty percent lower today, including fees than it was twenty five years ago on inflation adjusted basis. And every year, it continues to get cheaper, so we're building bigger airplanes, were building bigger airports, because people want to go, how crazy, does it make you though that you're building, as you said, a forty year industry here, a forty year company and, and deltas fortunes, are directly susceptible to global confidence. The global economy, things are good now but look out in a year and a half. Right. Is that? Well, I think this industry is a lot more resilient endurable than people give credit for this current quarter. Which has reported in eight percent. Topline growth, the economy grew what maybe two three percent in the first quarter we grew eight percent. There's something, there's something special and unique about air travel that connects people at once they wanna go. They don't wanna own. They wanted they want experience. I'm sure you saw the comments, and I won't ask you to comment on what he said. But the spirit of Oscar Munoz, his comments, the other day, the CEO of United, he said, in an interview an essence, once people get through security, and they get the hassle of getting on the plane and sticking their bags up top, and there's no room. They're just pissed agree or disagree. I disagree. I that those sorta aren't delta customer is speaking to we find our net promoter score, which is how we track customer satisfaction is then all time I at delta, which has for the first quarter, which is finished over fifty in terms of great that grade ten years ago is about a twenty today. It's up to a fifty. You know, this is this industry is about more than just airplanes and technology. It's about people, and we have wonderful people that provide great, sir. Service. So I just flew in from Atlanta, and it was a great flight. I didn't see anyone upset. I thought everyone really enjoyed the experience and arrived early. I yes you did. I asked you this last hour ask you today. You're just being fresh off a plane just sit in the front or the back. I sat in the front, but I spent time in the back. All right. I actually swap sweet seats while the customer, so she could take care of some things with their little baby. So I spent about I'd say about half the flight in the back and half in the front. Do you work on a flight? What do you do I constantly working on my ipad connected to, to Email? Guess techs going on. I have a live information. I'm catching up for my next couple of days of speaking engagements and visits that I've gotta do and also engaging with crew, I spent a lot of time in a galley spent time in the cockpit spent time talking to customers when that went on the plane, they generally find out. Yeah. I was just going to say did they know you when you walk on. They, they know we want to walk on. I've lost my as. Prices that you paid job radio. Right. Keep you. I talked to a lot of CEO's I don't quote, a lot of CEO's. But one that I do trot out pretty frequently as a line, you gave me in two thousand sixteen when we met at Atlanta. Right that any company that's not growing is in slow motion liquidation. Yeah. First of all, he's still believe I still live. I say you have to grow you. You gotta take scale you've got to provide new opportunities for your people and your customers. So what are the obstacles to growth for your company? Well, we're growing at a great clip. So I I don't you know, I think the obstacles are the classic ones. If you're, you're worried about global global economy or a high price of fuel or two of the two of the big headwinds that we face it, but we're not seeing either those, you know, our, our revenues, I said, earlier up eight percent of the quarter despite the economy growing two or three percent talk to me about global travel for a second. I was in Europe not too long ago. You see, delta planes, all over the place over there, Asia. Those were a lot of the global growth is aviation. How much do you concentrate on Asia and that side of the market. We're less concentrated in Asia than. And here closer to home. So the US and Europe are probably eighty percent of what revenue base Asia's, a long ways away at so it's more difficult to fly to it's more expensive, there's, there's a lot of competition that's owned by government sources. So the government infused support going into some of the Asian airlines make it a little more difficult for an American companies to compete, but that said we're, we're president, we've got a hub in Seoul with, with Korea. We got a large operation, historically, had in Tokyo, and we got a partner in China with China Eastern, where the hubs in both Shanghai and in Beijing. So, you know, you think about the world population of that. That's, that's the part of the world that needs to grow quicker than anyone. India is another place that we're launching direct service to by the end of this year. We today, don't fly direct India, are you are you worried about not being there India and Asia at large L were there. We, we as about ten percent of our revenue base is there. But it's, it's a it's a hard place to grow in volume. You know the. Big routes that we follow our work US customers want to go, and you just think about travel, you said, you were in Europe, you, I think travel to Europe this summer is going to be very, very busy. And, and that's Delta's leading international gateway, you mentioned partners. So I will I'll bring this up and I'll note that you're not a Boeing seven thirty seven max customer. But we're gonna fly Boeing aircraft we do. Dennis Muilenburg, as you know, is, is having a tough time now trying to figure all that out. And, and what to do about that. First of all, has he called. You have you guys spoken. I know Dennis. Well, I sent him a note of encouragement, a few weeks ago and told him to stick in the, any concerns about Boeing's a partner for Delta Airlines. I don't I don't have bones a great Cup. It's great American company, we fly more Boeing planes than any other manufacturer. We've always flown more Boeing and we hope to fly more Boeing going forward keeps you up at night. These days, cybersecurity really. Yeah. It doesn't keep me awake. But I say that be one of the things that I spend my time, more focused on than I care to be I think, are the penetration and the, the, the people that are trying to attack are, are using technology to whether it's to just to be, he'll play some and see what they can get away with or actually, to cause real harm to our business. When we spoke in two thousand sixteen you were reasonably new to this job. What now three years later is the thing that has surprised you most about it. What is surprised me, the most is, how quickly are people want to continue to grow and improve? You know we've been on top of our game top of industry for number of years. And I, I had the opportunity when I took over that we were, we were close to the top now that we've gone to the top people just want to keep pushing they want to keep growing. There's no complacency in this organization. They're looking for the next mountain decline. So what's your role in that as the CEO my role has the stale in front of that to, to be thinking about not just the next five or ten years? The next century literally the next center, we're going to be a hundred years old in two twenty twenty four and thinking about where we're going to be for the next century. And so, whether saw the international opportunities that we see whether how technology is going to change for Delta's robot becoming more of a brand of consumer brand, rather than just an airline. And that's where we're going about the delta brand. You've got the airline brand part of this thing down. Right. Where else do you want to take that brand? You wanna do hospitals? Eighty do you wanna do delta, self-driving cars? I mean I'm making that up. But but you've got brand capital. What are you going to do with it? Well, you know, the first thing we want to do to reinvest in the growth that we know that that's growing in, in our markets. You know, LA is risen you asked me, why were for expanding this airport, where we want to build more flying air in LA, which doing the same thing to Seattle and Salt Lake and New York of a lot. Finite right. There's only so many slots, there's only so many landing slots, but that's why we're building bigger planes and bigger airports to accommodate because the congestion your rights in the air traffic, control system is not necessarily in the sky. So there's opportunities to grow the flying and we're looking to do that. Second thing we want to do with the brand. Is we want to have more technology drives, we want to understand where customers want to go and what we can do to provide them could there be more hospitality, working closer with our hotel partners of choice, and, and other other travel adjacency is, of course, for right now will focus very much on continuing to prove the delta experience with that brand with delta, doing so, well top line growth, as you said, I'm sure you've seen the stories in the paper, the last couple of days about corporate taxes, and, and how much tax companies are paying. Delta is not paying a lot. Is that right? Do you think absolute ill? We're following the tax code delta. You recall lost a lot of money. We lost almost twenty billion dollars post nine eleven and the years of. Of restructuring we went through bankruptcy. We went through some very difficult economies over the last twenty years. And so what we're doing is we're able to offset the losses of those years against the prophets of today. We have probably only have about another year or so left in those losses. And then at that point, then we should start being gash taxpayer once again, but, you know, these are losses hard, earn losses by I would say that we that we utilize in our people had real pain Pashto him yell, the I think that the article that you're referring to spoke to corporate America and are they paying their share? I am proud that we've got the best profit sharing plan in corporate America for employers. They get fifteen percent of the profits of the company one point three billion dollars. We paid last year. So, yeah, I think we're doing our share silica. How much trouble are you in one point three billion dollars back to employees looks great? And I appreciate that. How much trouble are you in though, in those coming years, when you're not going to be able to share one point three billion dollars? It's going to be. Two hundred million or six hundred million. Well, I think we're going to continue to look to grow overbilling. We've had been over a billion dollars five years in a row. So there's, there's a resiliency, you know, we're, we're, we're a story that people don't pay enough attention to any, you know, they, they throw the airlines into a basket and they, they think that they're just a hot mess at times. Right. They have some good boom, bust cycle, or breaking that cycle or creating a new trend for the industry had over five billion dollars of profits for years running, and I see no reason why we should stop that. You are. You're a CEO who in clearly enjoys his part of the job, right? This part of, of taking questions and speaking about your. I'm proud of our and literally it's your job. The, the question is, can you be too good at this part of the job? I don't know. I think you're, you're thrust as the face of the company. I think this is an industry that is adventurous that people want to explore. There's it's a industry of optimism. You can't be a pessimist, if you work in this business, it's just too hard. I mean you got to always be looking guy be real. It got to be pragmatic. But you gotta look for the opportunity where to go. We talked earlier about growth growth. I think drives everything in organization that and culture, and I'd say those are probably my two biggest jobs wants to maintain the culture in the visibility with our people as I say, spending all my time flying from Atlanta LA this morning. Most of the time was with our people, and Secondly in terms of looking at where we can go to the next century. To continue to grow on the theory that, if this growth keeps up you'll be in this job nominally as long as you want. Right. What else do you want to do in this job? Well, what I'd like to do is get these investments that we're doing fail built, to the new airports, the new infrastructure, the new planes, new markets internationally, ios setting us up for that next decade. And then whoever my, my successor will be at the right time. We'll have the opportunity to take it from there. But yeah, I think this company has earned the right to take advantage of a growth business for the best performing airline in a growing business. We talked about the airline mysteries a growing industry and that can go in a lot of different places. This is an incredibly competitive business. And last time, we spoke you were leaning into the competition part you were like I want to grow. I want to be number one. I wanted to do better than anybody else. Do you still feel that way? Absolutely. We're an industry. That's geared towards growth, high capital business, a lot of this. We got eighty thousand employees. We've got a very experienced workforce, and that opportunity to grow. And explore his is fundamental to our ability to gain better leverage on our scale. So, yes, I think I think growth is, is really at the core of what it takes to be a great company in the airline space. But also as a as a fairly capital intensive business as well. So in twenty twenty four when we come back to LAX and grab your another flight the hundred year delta sooner that, okay? All right. Well, we'll see schedules. Gotta lineup. What is delta at LAX look like. And then what is delta inside aviation? Look like so del Tel LAX will be a completely new experience for our customers. We'll have thirty gates at LAX in the old world. We had fifteen so we'll doubled over the space of the last five years going forward. We'll have a unified head house so terminals, two in three will come through with, with a security combined security system that's actually built for tomorrow, rather than the sa-. Curie. We've got cobbled that was built around yesterday's expectation. We'll have technology that works customers with why finding technology and -bility to accelerate their journey, well, how real estate you'll have more space at the gate, then you did in the past because in the past it was built for the head house experience. We want to build this for the for the opportunity to be at the gate into settle down and have some stress relaxers before you get on the plane, and the other things that we have a lot more international because we're going to be connected over securely to tip it to, to from the four Tom Brady four exactly, so that will allow us to have more because today we don't have that connection. So as a result, all of our international customers have to come outside walk on the streets. So we have to go find them. Some are they lose them and bring them back onto delta. This is a little bit sideways. But, but roll with it. You spoken a couple of times about the head house. That is to say the section of the airport in front of the security gate, a front, pull up where we pull up to, you know, drop people off. Do you put no stock in the value of airports as public places and I'm thinking now of Dulles, and the very famous terminal at Dallas or the Tom Bradley terminal here, just as architecture and as public spaces I think we can build even better looking airports for tomorrow than they were built in the past? Again, they were built in the past when you didn't have a lot of people travelling through them. So we have we have to the functionality is really important. So we'll still have statements of art, and, and, and experience that customers want to come see in marvel. I just ask you to come to, you know what we've done up JFK, we're building that we built, a new terminal for Detroit's a marvelous experience for customers. We can do the same thing here. So I, I think what they will be different. They won't be someplace. People go to collect their travelers. They'll somebody places where people can go and experience the opportunity to fly at thanks, a lot has ticket. All right. That's my conversation with Ed bastion. The CEO of delta. Thanks for joining us on that little trip out to LAX. I should also say, by the way, that after we recorded that interview felt that did some anti union campaigning that pretty much blew up on social media, maybe a sought we call delta. They sent us a statement about it, here it is the direct relationship. We have with our employees is at the very core of our strong culture, and it has enabled continuous investments in delta, people, it goes on to say, delta has shared many communications, which on the whole make it clear that deciding whether or not to unionize should not be taken lightly. That's the end of the quote, we've got the full statement on our website marketplace dot org. If you like this episode, please, as always leave us a review on apple podcasts, or even better subscribe that will you'll be among the first to know when our next episode drops the next episode, by the way it's going to be a good one to people who are basically, the CEO's of their own show, that show being the marvelous, MRs Mazel on Amazon prime. I'll be talking about it with the creator and executive producers, Amy Sherman palladino, and Dan palladino. So you haven't meeting with Amazon, and you give them what I'm assuming as a truncated version of that discourse. You just gave me about midge doesn't do truncates. Okay. All right. So you the. Spiel? I talked to Jill their eyelids sort of start to flutter, and I feel like I've almost killed them, and then they'll just do anything to get you out of their office. And so they bought this series anything to get you out of their office. What are you what wells? Yes. It's very little vicious. That is going to be in your feed. Next week corner office podcast is produced by virgin Bonder. Marketplace is produced by Nancy, forgotten attorney Ed is, is the executive director of on demand. Deborah Clark is the senior vice president and general manager on KYW Rozelle talked again in a couple of weeks. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as thank you during small business month. Dell is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven by Dell speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership.
The New Deal
"The month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership. Sleepwalk is a production of iheart radio and unusual productions. Horon in definitely. Yeah. From years gone empty, I was already atone wrestling with my family when they suddenly get a phone call. An RFID had fallen from the sky. Picture of field in rural Mexico surrounding it yellow tape. A police car flashing lights soldiers carrying automatic weapons inside the line of cordon is large transparent globe a bit like a washed up jellyfish. But in fact, it had fallen from the sky here is state official Kwan Carlos cast ear. He quarter. From the sky up nineteen forty five hours in under Roddick way, making circles, the artifact itself. Cut some sensors and light, that was flashing beeping, one Monroe Sanchez. He got the guts to approach the object. Look at it closely they pictures and share them. Those pictures quickly turned into a social media phenomenon. It really costs panicking in the people. Maybe they have never seen something like this actually people came from other settlements to see the artifact to take selfish where it I imagined that it could be an espionage shar. The fact that relaid images classified information officer castio worried about the origin when it beeping wearing jellyfish falls out of the sky show. It could be spycraft. But if it's something even scarier something other worldly of physical steel notice a beast was tagged with the phone number. And if you dial that number, you don't get to. Balloon CSI. This is a refined out why balloons, either last one hundred days or they don't. That's Pamela, desert shea and weird. X a secretive lab at alphabet Google's parent company. Their mission is no less than to invent the future. And it's X who piloted the program to launch balloons into the stratosphere and retrieve them when they come down. So in order to look at a balloon that's the size of a tennis court where failure smaller than a millimeter is a huge problem for us. We do have to build specialized equipment. So behind me is the world's largest flatbed scanner or working on models of what does a certain type of damage look like what do we think, causes that damage kind of makes a fingerprint? But why is X and balloons into the sky for months at a time in the first place? I must Voloshin and this is sleep walkers. Sukar you told me about this balloon being discovered in rural Mexico, and then we tracked down the first responders. But what grabbed you about the story? First of all, it's a crazy story something fell out of the sky into a field. Roll Mexico, which I love, but it's also one of those moments when you know, real people come in contact with technology in a way that almost feels like not to mention it again. But, like Steven Spielberg movie, you know, I mean, just imagine not knowing what this thing is in your backyard, and it sort of reminds me of other stories that we've reported on, whether it's Gillian with targeting, Glenn with parole, algorithms, you know, the way in which people interact with technology is changing, and this is just the perfect example of that. This february. We went to Mountain View in California to visit axe and learn how they're involved with giant balloons floating in the stratosphere because, as it turns out, rural Mexico isn't the only place they've made contact. We had internet before Maria. We have so many things that we dependent on the internet for everything five days off to hurricane Maria, devastated Puerto Rico, the SEC, grunted, and experimental license to ex- to restore cell service to the island, the government let x step in to provide a service. It couldn't and Google sent that balloons. So when we saw what was happening in Puerto Rico, you know, it was really hard for us, not the help. Right like that. The whole company in some sense really wanted to get behind that effort. It's kind of a rare opportunity when there's a problem like that, where no problem with connectivity. Everyone's off line and you happen to have a fleet of stratospheric internet balloons, like I think we're probably the. Only ones who can say that. That cell Candido head of engineering Falloon. And if cell towers in the sky sound like the stuff of science fiction, there were two here on may twenty six twenty nineteen a massive magnitude earthquake hit Peru. I'm while cell towers and cables with down loons balloons were able to restore temporary instead access within just forty eight hours. But how does Sal and his team get the balloons to go whether needed the idea in act? One was, we were going to build this ring are blooms around the world covering entire latitude band, obviously, that's kind of a challenging concept execute. Most of them will be over the ocean. Not connecting anyone the idea just wasn't feasible so to make it work. Google had to figure out how to get the balloons to navigate Astro teller runs X, and he supervised the original development of loon. We always hoped that the balloons could be intelligent in which wins. They choose. Us to jump onto as the balloons have gotten better and better at predicting what the winds will be at different altitudes. They can play these more and more sophisticated chess games. If I go up by Columbia, I think I could catch a win that's going to the left at ten miles an hour and I'll hang out there for about three hours. Then I'll go down by two kilometers. And it plays this out in makes this plan for how it's going to get not just kind of to Australia, but right over Perth constantly reading the winds and predicting how they might change in order to sat around the is no small task and according to sell it takes a lot of computing power. I don't think that you would be able to do this, you know, if you had a person, navigating each balloon the information processing capability, and the act that you have to be constantly watching making judgments. It's. Job, this really well, suited to a computer is a huge volume of computation and our data center, I think that is an area where alphabet has a big advantage, how big is the joint days into. Oh, they're giant shopping center, bigger than shopping centers, powered by often renewable energy. So they're often built next to a river, just so it can use an entire hydroelectric plant, you know, there's a ton of computers being put to all kinds of problems across alphabet loon is one of them. Right. The reality is that today, a company like alphabet has more computational power more data and more engineering expertise than most countries. So it can restore creativity to put a Rico or Peru after natural disaster. And it can help daily emergencies as well as officer castio told us there are situations in his unconnected area that current impulsively to communicate quickly enough to receive help in time and loon could change that. So the balloon. Fell out of the sky in Mexico. It was a sign of things to come at a new global infrastructure, being built by technology companies not governments, and that brings real leverage, which is something we should all think about even if we don't find a giant fish, you know, backyard here in Sierra. I'm all for the element that are emergency situations in the Sierra that are impossible to communicate to us in order to act within reasonable timeframes, but I don't dismiss the possibility of it being tricked by a company to steal information from us either. Of course, these balloons are actually very one intention fundamentally to bring internet to places where it doesn't otherwise exist. That said, Kara Google on the only people trying to do this, and Facebook ought to. And they had a program for a while attempting to use soda power drones to connect the world. Right. And when Facebook and Google are both trying to do something. It's says to me that it's probably not purely philanthropic endeavors, produce in bottom line and getting all those people online. So anyway, we just had from Astro teller who runs, X, which is is directive, very secretive organisation. We were invited inside the building to understand a bit more about how one of the world's most powerful companies Google is thinking about inventing the future. Hi, I'm Astro teller. I'm the captain of moon shots here at X on the part of alphabet where we try to design things that can become if we're lucky new businesses. Hopefully, Google scale new businesses that can be as good for the world as Google's been so Astros charge with bunk producing Google scale innovations as impossible as that sounds. But, like any good factory supervisor, he's got some clear, criteria nor for something to be a moonshot. We require that it have three things a huge problem with the world a radical proposed solution, and then some kind of breakthrough technology that gives us at least a fighting chance of making that science fiction sounding product, if you look around, you'll see a lot of bare concrete, polish cement floors. Plywood on the walls, the buildings work in progress. Because of the projects here are a work in progress. To even be considered for development in inks ideas have to be spectacular balance to the of the impossible. When someone says what if we put a band of copper around the North Pole and let the flux of earth's magnetic core, which goes up and down, like a reversing very slow alternating current turn it into current in that wire? And then we could all that current down to Norway or something and power, the earth that one that may not actually work. But that statement that what if definitely took you outside of the normal, and as Astro points out the lab itself is a moon showed his charged with delivering ten x impact on the world's most intractable problems, but they take ethical concerns seriously to which is reportedly, why X abandoned work on an invisibility. Device. We go talk to the public, we go talk to experts and thought leaders, we'd go talk to regulators. And we put these half formed ideas and prototypes in front of them and say, this is the problem. We're trying to solve here's how we're currently trying to solve it. What do you think? And we get feedback and that helps educate us and report us in various ways, internally, we also play a lot of what if games. So an example is what we call designed fiction where we either make pictures, or literally writes stories about our technology and how it might play out. But if you can't imagine it working out in really good ways for society. We definitely shouldn't be make it. And if you can imagine it working out, but you can describe some bad things that this moonshot might cause, in society being able to describe those things means maybe we can change how we're working on the moon. Shot. It's good to hear that. There's a strong ethical framework governing innovation anx, but it's a private company, and they making ethical decisions that impact all of us Astro has been talking about infrastructure. But remember, no fest episode the program to deter potential terrorists, using targeted ads that was also sponsored by Google so providing internet and deterring terrorists, both good ideas. But when same company does both and so much more. The concentration of power is concerning then, again, in a political environment of gridlock and proposed cups to science funding. Maybe we should be grateful that the big technology companies stepping into tackle a problems. You've heard that bacteria around the world are becoming more resistant to antibiotics? There's no way for some drug company to chase after all of these increasingly antibiotic resistant bacteria. And yet, if we don't chase after them, we're going to look back at this time in the world as the golden age of antibiotics, and we're missing even if you could just simulate a bacteria inside a computer that is asked, what would happen to this bacteria. If I knocked out this, gene, if I change the ph and the solution that it sitting in, if I subjected it to a lot of UV light, if you could just ask those kinds of basic questions, you could start to design new antibacterial agents at a thousand times the rate because you don't have to go round pipe petting, and waiting for these things to grow or die. If you could. Could simulate life. That is model. Any part of biology inside the computer? It would be a do over for the life science. That's an example of something. We're in the very early days of explored. Alphabet google. X loon, jigsaw. This constellation of interlocking companies is working on everything from bringing the internet to remote parts of the world to deterring terrorists to creating new kinds of antibiotics. And if that sounds like the well could government. Well, that's because it is when we come back, we ask, what does this concentration of Palam mean for us and what should we do about it? There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as thank you during small business month. Dell is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Cool. Eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell fatigue advice, and one of them, punish ship. We've been talking about Google CARA. But of course it's not just Google. We mentioned Facebook earlier, and then there's Amazon, Amazon makes up almost half of all online sales in the US just think about that present, you know, we've talked about Alexa gathering intimate data in more than one hundred million American homes, and Jeff Bezos is ambitions also include redefining healthcare in the US. And also recently colonizing space was nicely. So humble. But it is getting harder and harder to define what these massive businesses actually are. Donald Trump calls the Washington Post the Amazon Washington poached is. Well, since Basil's sport it. I mean, I guess not exactly the Amazon Washington Post, but it does identify a real issue, which is getting harder and harder to say what these multi industry companies all. Well, yes, because they all do so much. So how do we regulate them one person who's been out in front on this issue is Lena com one at Yale Law School at age twenty eight she wrote a landmark article cooled, Amazon's antitrust paradox? And when now starting to have conversations as a society about using monopoly law to limit the power of the big tech companies. But Lena really kicks out of the conversation. So I was very excited when she agreed to join us on the show. These technologies are complicated. They're oftentimes involved in multiple lines of business. And so for many everyday people, including lawmakers, they don't actually understand how these firms operate, according to Lena, the big three Amazon, Facebook, and Google have one thing in common. They've emerged as gatekeepers of the. Digital economy. Amazon Google and Facebook earn a position where they can really pick winners and losers. Oh, especially among the merchants, or the content producers, or the app developers that are now relying on their platform to get to market. So if you're a consumer, you're primarily thinking about price about convenience about quality, you know, the facts. If you're a new parent in, you can just order diapers, and they'll be reliably at your doorstep. The next morning, there's no doubt that Amazon has provided important benefits to consumers. But if you're thinking about the company as citizen and you're thinking about the market power that it has if you're thinking about the way that it was able to avoid paying sales taxes for the first year is that it was in business. If you're looking at the way in which Amazon orchestrated its search for its second headquarters where it was pretty ruthlessly pitting city against city and showing that it was really willing to extort municipalities. Try and get the biggest subs. City possible, and then ended up playing a bit of a bait and switch where it collected all of this information from all of these different cities, which now inevitably will give it a competitive advantage. I mean, there's just so many different dimensions of Amazon's dominance, that are troubling if there was any doubts about I'm Ozone's power to compel politicians, the search for the second headquarters should have made it up and now Amazon is beginning to build leverage over the federal government. There have been reports from the institute for local self reliance about how Amazon is now on the cusp of receiving potentially a big contract with the Pentagon, so it's just entrenching itself. Deeper and deeper into our daily lives in ways that if you just look at an isolation, you will miss the bigger picture. They think as a citizen, I somebody who's looking at the social and political implications of this. It's quite troubling. I'm very struck by Lena's distinction between being a consumer and being a citizen because, of course as consumers we always want the best price and the most convenience but it's fascinating to think that that can be directly at odds with our responsibilities and even on interests as citizens. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of readers who love independent bookstores have this problem. You know, do I order on Amazon, because I want the book tomorrow and because it's cheap and because I'm trying to save money or do I buy it at the independent bookstore where, you know, I've gone and loved for years. So, yeah, I, I always think about that. But, you know, I think we also have to think about shareholders and politicians when we talk about this Amazon shareholders are trying to keep Amazon from selling Amazon's recognition technology to the US government, but those same shareholders are profiting off of Amazon success. So we really can't always rely on shareholders to do that. Yeah. I mean those shoulders who don't want on his own to sell facial recognition technology to the government are actually acting in stone interests. And that's an anomaly, which is why we have gone. Moment theoretically, but remember the Facebook Senate hearings. I mean, the sentences did a terrible job of holding so Capac to account, Mr. Zuckerberg I remember. Well, your first visit to Capitol Hill back in two thousand ten you spoke to the Senate Republican tech task force, which I chair, you said back, then that Facebook would always be free. How do you sustain a business model in which users don't pay for your service? Senator we run ads. I see. Senator, we run ads that was of bugs response to Senator Orrin Hatch, which was probably the no point in a series of low points in the Senate herrings. And also the moment of ready made me want to make this poll cost because Kaley the people who have the pal and UT to question the big technology companies are either being derelict in their responsibility cheese. Oh, they simply don't understand what's going on. I know show which was part of the issue at the Senate is that collectively, they are a million years old. The part of it is also that they all rely on Facebook ads and pages for reelection and they want Facebook money and their states. That's what we call a conflict of interest. And a friend of mine from university literally wrote the book on this issue, his cooled future politics. He's annoy cooled Jamie Suskind. It's an ancient idea in human civilization that we don't allow great forms of power to be a rected over us, without some degree of transparency. So we know what's being done with technology. It's very early days, but we need to look at the stuff as citizens like, we would at any form of power that cruise I VERA head whether as corporate power political power. Great economic power, one of the big problems as Jamie sees, it is that as these big technology companies get involved with things like creating new drugs fighting terrorism. We ought to talk about them as nation states and we missed the monk. You know, you'll see John Lewis and commentators, saying, oh, tech foams of the new states and, and I just think that's, that's sloppy thinking, they might have some stuff in common with states. But. Tech foams commercial entities operating in a market system. The suit of profit and our answer will today shareholders, which is obviously just a profoundly different social institution to state. Karen mentioned the Amazon shareholders with pressuring the company to ban facial recognition software sales, but in late may of twenty nineteen that measure was roundly defeated by vote at the company's annual general meeting, so Amazon will continue selling facial recognition technology and this highlights. What Jamie is saying these funds motivated by prophets. Unlike states which motivated by protecting the citizens, Senator Elizabeth Warren has suggested one solution might be to treat a big technology companies like utility companies things like regulating price and access, but Jamie thinks is actually underplays just how powerful and consequential these companies really are then, like utility founds, the won't company doesn't get you to do things you wouldn't otherwise do it doesn't affect the democratic process. It doesn't set the limit. It's of your liberty, and it doesn't distribute things of importance throughout society, according to principles of Justice, which all things that I would say the tech foams now do so rowing back, we don't really have the words to describe what tech firm is conceptually and politically. And so it's no wonder that we're not coming out with policies and regulations and laws because we don't even have the words to describe the future. Even if we could see it. When we come back, we investigate future and also what we can do to regain some control. One of the things we're learning on sleep. Wokers is just how valuable data is it allows companies and governments to make predictions about what we going to do next. And if it falls into the hands of people who won't to HAMAs that's even more dangerous. So if you're on public wifi or unencrypted internet, anywhere, you'll pass was in credit card numbers are not safe. That's why I use express VPN, which secures an anonymous internet browsing with just one. Click is a service, several of my friends who have been China use to access ban services, like g mail WhatsApp and Instagram. Protect your online night to its today and find out how you can get three months free at express VPN dot com slash sleep wokers. That's E. X. P. E. S S. VPN dot com slash sleep wokers for three months free with a one year package. Visit express VPN dot com slash leap. Walkers to learn more. So Kara everyone is now thinking a lot about the role of technology in lives and one of the popular things recently has been full reporters to try and live without technology. If you'd like phone detox at the new Weight Watchers and I'm kind of sick of it, but Kashmir hill did this really interesting story for Gizmodo where she tried not to use any products from the big five tech companies, you know, she blocked Amazon Facebook, Google Microsoft and apple. And she said it was hell, you know, I think about my own life Google. Amazon are absolutely indispensable to me. And then there are times where I'm like, oh, really use Facebook that much, you know. And I'm sitting in a public restroom at two pm on Instagram and sort of chuckled, mice. There's Facebook, right? And I think what cash Amelia hill story also revealed is that even when we think we're not using one of those companies products. We may well be using website or an app that powered by them. So it's basically impossible to opt out his lean again. What you mean by opt-out is not having Amazon prime account or not have g mail. You know, there may be ways in which you can stop using these services on a day to day sense, but Amazon also owns Amazon, web services, which, you know, much the internet, now relies on who will is providing the back end infrastructure for so many other services. So I think, you know, if you're if you're trying to if you're trying to delete, these firms from all aspects of your life, it actually becomes very difficult to live in modern day society. And like we said this applies to all of the big five but let's play it out with Amazon, and we can start with the easy stuff, so Kara no more things for the kitchen from Amazon dot com. Well as Wilmot Nomo groceries from whole foods, coming food, anyway, and Amazon prime video side to miss Mrs Maes but had net flicks. Mazel. Plot. Twists. I think the consumer facing stuff is obviously interesting. But the more consequential piece of this is the back end of the internet. You know, Lena was talking about Amazon web services, which is like the cloud computing power, so many of the services we use every day. And Amazon, basically sells this to other companies so actually without this back end from Amazon. There is no net flicks. Well, Unilever Pfizer General Electric, he's companies all rely on Amazon web services sodas, NASA, where I went to space camp. Sort of and even apple who compete with Amazon in areas like streaming and devices are also on track to spend more than three hundred million dollars Amazon this year, so apple paying literally, one of their competitors to host the data. Yes. If you're using the internet you were in Amazon's territory territory is a good word. One of the more interesting analogies. I've heard is well, I'll just let Jack Clark said, I think is kind of an. Just to feudalism like you. And I get to live on some sort of a state, like Google or Facebook or Twitter. You know, via state is owned by a feudal lords, which is known as a fees companies involved boards and via state is able to extract my labor benefit from it, and what it gives me is ability, Jack is the policy direct to open AI, an AI research company founded by Elon Musk and Sam Oltman. When Jack says, labor, he's referring to use the data now, part of open is mission is to compete with the labs at Google Facebook and Amazon, so Jack might not be fully impartial. But let's think about that comparison to feudalism if you're a peasant in a village owned by feudal Lord, you had some guarantee of stability, as long as you stayed on platform, but you couldn't leave the platform and actually as early as team century English peasants would be required to carry identification cards because people. Would get really, really grumpy or firm if they walked off the estate, they're on and tried to go somewhere else. And I think that's actually very similar to where we all today. We don't have posible data our, our ability to economically benefit all selves. We've all day tour is actually very, very limited. And we live in of Neo feudal system where you get to pick your platform, vacant today's her benefit, and you get some free service and exchange. So we perceive what we're getting from. These companies is free CARA. And will we have to do is tolerate a few advancements, but as we talked about, when notice giving him are bulls to look at ads? No, we're allowing them to understand our patterns behaviors and desires better than we understand the Marcellus. And then they're using that knowledge about us to hold our attention influence our behavior and monetize us and sell us stuff that we don't need when you think about it, historically leaders have killed this sort of power and influence. And we're handing over now freely to Basil's Zucca bug and Larry page where roading up how citizens because easier and more comfortable to be consumers. I think it's important to remember that the same place where a person can buy a twelve pack of toilet paper is also the same company that is selling Amazon web services to the Pentagon. I mean, it's, it's sobering. It is sobering, we folks on how the big technology companies powered by our data. But there's something else. This is well, Jack Clark of open AA argues, it is distracting us this focus on data from something even more fundamental who owns the computing power now abet, but we have is the value of those laws amounts of data is going to reduce over time as you develop algorithms with Besser able to extract structure from smaller and smaller amounts today to, but you'll always going to need computers to allow you to run more experiments and train bigger systems. So we think in belong term computes might be the key to terminate of AI, progress, Jesse clarify compete is short full computing power, the ability to process, large amounts of data. It's what's needed to help balloons balloons muddle and catch the winds. And as Sal mentioned, Google, you so much of it, they build then massive data centers next to rivers. So they can you. Hydro electric energy to Palo them and compute has grown at an extraordinary rate as we become able to makes more sense, Mona circuit boards and pack more. Power into small cases now open recently didn't analysis where we looked at the amounts of computes that had been used in breakthrough systems in recent years. And when we did this analysis, we found out the, the amounts of compute has grown by free hundred thousand times in six years, three hundred thousand times in six years. What does that mean in practical terms, what does that growth, actually look like? Well, I think Besson Basha here is to think about your phone battery. That's a crippling to your phone going from having a battery of lasted for one day, six years ago, to a battery of it lost it for eight hundred years today. Vac growth. Looks like it means more. Powerful capabilities all coming into view fall. Stephen, we expect it's that kind of growth, that's allowed a fleet of loon balloons to muddle the winds adjust the altitude and sale to precise locations, but the computational power is in the hands of the private sector, and that is dramatically increasing that power, we have brilliant, people come and work with us from places like MIT Stanford on one of the things, but attracts them to well care, or attracts them to work at Google, or Facebook is, we can give them more computers from baking gavitt, home institution. I think if we don't solve this disparity, what going to really wreck the public benefits of scientific research because you'll going to have a whole class of research, which owned the cousin but private-sector on very, very few guarantees for research will always be public only this year. President trump. Announcing executive order called the American AI initiative that laid out a plan to address some of the concerns, we've raised in his episode, but it didn't come with any funding so innovation and ethical decisions will remain in private hands for the time being. And this means that AI technology isn't guaranteed to serve the public interest, and may even get into the wrong hands. I think the first step we as a community to take is to acknowledge potential homes. And once we have that mindset, I think it becomes easier to Selva scientific community on. Okay. We have a sense of what hob looks like what do we commit all sales to, to minimize fat? So, yeah, about conversation Hoste to happen. I think conversation does not happen, then you're going to have this arms race. Absent for the conscious creation of gnomes here, I think, for vats default and fat to world. Terrifies me because I can see research today, the into of free is, is going to give. Say on precedent capabilities in drone autonomy that let's drone navigate to a talk. It's no small of an area now that's obviously an amazingly good thing, if we want to create rapid response drones, but can deliver say tools for dealing with cardiac arrest someone undergoing bats on a city street. I don't want to think about the version of face whether Joan has some explosives strapped to it and is being used to assassinate someone and I won't have the community confront this problem that the community wouldn't be able to do this unknown. We need petitions to step up and create meaningful laws and regulations. Ultimately rely on tech companies to regulate themselves is an application of responsibility, his Lena Khanaqin, the dominance of these tech companies is not inevitable and not as the economic outcome. Is that we're seeing in these markets are inevitable? They're deeply shaped by laws and policy and the political choices that we're making about how we allow. These firms to expand and grow kinds of practices. They're allowed to engage in. So I think it's really important to push back against determine ISM and inevitability narratives in reassert the role of law and policy in shaping economic outcomes. There's an important balance between public and private institutions in America letting either side grow, too powerful creates problems. But right now, the big technology companies becoming so large, and powerful as to be ungovernable and no matter how ethical or one intention, they may be not motivated by Fenice, or protecting the weakest in society, the motivated by shareholders and prophet that may seem like an insurmountable problem, but we have a history in this country of making lose that disrupt special interests and raise the quality of life for everyone. Think about the formation of the EPA, the new deal even the Civil Rights Act. And actually just this week as we've been preparing to release these episode. The house to disarray committee has launched a major bipartisan antitrust investigation into the big tech companies. This is the first time in decades that congress has investigated specific industry, and who is advising the investigation. Well that will be Lena con-. Yeah, we got in touch with Lena to hear about her thoughts on the probe and what we might be able to expect from the investigation, but she's not about a comment publicly at still she said, a couple of interesting things in our original interview the goal of antitrust just to keep markets competitive. And I think it's important because it affects us consumers it affects us as workers it affects us entrepreneurs and it affects as citizens, right? I mean, I think the structure over our Konami has huge consequences for our day to day lives in anti-trust is a key component of that. If we saw more robust at trust enforcement than these markets should become more open to competition. And so in ten years, you would not necessarily see Google, Amazon, Facebook, apple Microsoft continued to be as dominant as. Are because we would've Steed innovators. We would have seen the next wave of, of the breakthrough disruptors I think it's also worth acknowledging that the dominant. These firms enjoy is certain markets may be something that we regulate rather than addressed through breaking up. So since we've started working on sleep walkers that has been tangible progress, both in the US and around the world. But this is only the beginning and we call it relaxed just yet in the next episode we bring things down to earth and look at how AI may help us feed the world and along the way we use machine learning to invent a brand new seltzer flavor just for us. I must have notion. See you next time. Sleep focus is a production of iheart, radio and unusual productions for the latest, news live interviews, and behind the scenes footage. Find us on Instagram at sleep 'cause podcast all capable because protocols, don't come special. Thanks, this episode to the whole team at we had moved west and incredible production company in El Paso, Texas who helped us track down an interview office Custodio about his encounter with the loon balloon, especially shoutout to j w Rogge's. What hey county on as I ni- and Leonel portfolio who voiced office? STO's translated lines sleep wilko's is hosted by me, off Voloshin and co hosted by me care price, with produced by Julian weta with help from yucca penzo, and Taylor coin mixing, by trista McNeil, and Julian Wella, a story editor is Matthew riddle, recording assistance, this episode from Miguel Perez, and Chris, Hamburg sleep will cause is executive produced by me. Voloshin and Monge had. To get. Komo podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or whatever you listen to your favorite shows. This month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. Fatigue advice and one one partnership.
Truth to Power
"The month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership. Sleepwalk is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions. Pay. How are you doing? Are you in a precarious situation? Not really. Can you say where you are? Is sound like you can't talk. Okay. I've been working in sleep walkers so much. Yeah. So I know what you're thinking car is normally that distracted. But the truth is that wasn't her speaking. We're playing prerecorded fakes of her voice tau cousin created by today. Wake you I feel so tired. I'm sorry. I wanted to talk to you guest list. Stupidly left my wallet, at home and I need to order tickets to the screening before it sells out. What screening I not surely station. Byu United could you read me accord number real fast? Or text me pick of your card open you back. Are you, you talking to me your cousin Leslie, right? Hello. Yeah. I think we're crossing paths here. You're not. Answering me in a we're answering me in a weird way. Hum. So what was it like hearing, Leslie respond to rebel CARA? Will it reminded me that it's very easy to prank people when they have no context for what you're doing? It took her like a full minute to be like, oh cares. Tired? Not like that's not cool. My dad and I'll say through a minute that you playing internet chess. When there is what they called, there's tech brain when someone's texting and talking to you. And that's sort of what it sounds like she was like, are you having another conversation as she forgiven you she's forgiven? Robo CARA, I'm still not off the hook sorry. Fake audio and fake video can be a lot of fun for pranks. And there are some life changing the positive uses force in tactic media that will hear about later but just how much trouble could deep fakes got us into. And as they get easier to make how can we keep them out of the hands of the wrong people? I must Voloshin welcome to sleep. Walkers. The plan, originally was to cousin lesley's credit card detail that failed. Yeah. Julian had the idea of having CARA. A I ask for credit card information, basically, to prove how easy it is to get somebody's credit card information. You can imagine if it was a little bit better. And you were talking to someone and they were like, oh my God. My grandchild, you know, needs money. Oh my God. My grandchild is in trouble that they would say, okay, hold on a minute. I'll get you the credit card number. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's what's so frightening about this technology. We're gonna die of later into how you synthesized you'll voice, but it's the same titan logical underpinning of the video that many people have seen of Jordan Peele. Basically speaking in Barack Obama's mouth were entering an era in, which are enemies can make it look like anyone saying anything at any point in time, even if they would never say those things, for instance, they could have me say things like President Trump is a total and complete dip shit. So that was a computer, neural network faking Barack Obama's facial features and mouth movement to literally looked like he was speaking, the was Jordan Peele said and that actually makes it even more persuasive than the fake. Oh, just had of your voice. Because when you see something you tend to believe it, that's why the phrases seeing is believing things CARA. We're gonna come back to deep fakes. But before we get there, we're going to take a look at some other online trickery, because the scariest pot is that fakes actually don't have to be as sophisticated as you'll cool to cousin Leslie to recap Vic is particularly true on Facebook. So we went to the headquarters in Palo Alto to meet Nathaniel Gleich. He's the head of cybersecurity policy at Facebook, and he told me about an incident last summer decrease the true dilemma, fame and his team in July. We conducted a takedown of a fairly small network of pages that were operating in the US showed links back to Russian actors, and what they were doing was among other things creating events where they were inviting Americans to come to protests. And in particular, this was around the unite the right to movement, which happened in two thousand eighteen it was the anniversary of the bloody clashes in Charlottesville in twenty seventeen and the far-right wanted together, again this time Russia was watching. And there was a event that popped up, which was the no unite the right to movement. This was a counter protest. They were Fenwick counter protests being planned, but this one was being convened by a group of inauthentic pages in accounts, which were linked back to Russia. That were clearly attempting to sort of bring Americans together in a space where they would go into physical conflict immediately after creating the event, they then went out and invited legitimate unwitting activists to co host the event with them. Let's pause for a moment. This is Russia with talking about, and they creating a Facebook event to appeal to liberal activists designed to drool them into physical conflict, with the far-right and create the kind of scenes the tad off social fabric. But the people co hosting it on not Russian agitators. The US citizens acting good faith, what we saw in that case, and what we're increasingly seeing is these actors trying to lure their behavior with domestic actors to force not just the platform. But all of us task, how do you separate these ultimately Facebook had to make a decision we removed that event from Facebook because it was created by enough into actors if someone else had created it that event would have been fine, so we removed the event, but then we reached out to the co hosts the authentic hosts and we explained them what had happened and we made clear if you want to host your own event, you should do that. We just wanna make sure that we everyone understand what's happening. Motiva- was their reaction to realize that free will have been manipulated in that way. If you look at reactions, it's a range of sort of disbelief. Right. I don't think this was what you're saying. It was too. Can't believe this happened to okay that happened. But I strongly believe in this, I'm going to go, and I'm going to advocate for my issues somewhere else that spectrum of difficulty is exactly why we see actors use these techniques because there are no easy answers here. My assumption going into this was detecting missing. Summation would be the biggest challenge for Facebook, but that's the easy part is off. Do you identify the fakes the really tough questions begin? We know that particularly the government actors in the space part of their information, dominance strategy is to make themselves appear bigger and more powerful than they are they wanna seem like they're everywhere. And it's really easy to see foreign government manipulation under every rock. I think it's really important not to play into the hands of these actors and sort of overplay their own influence. This is attention. We struggle with whenever we conduct to take down for some of these operations. The most attention gets is when we take it down. The entire situation puts Facebook in a catch twenty two if they leave the content up that helping to promote a foreign governments nefarious agenda, if they take it down the phone government gets all this attention for being more powerful and cleverer than they actually all these decisions are incredibly hard. Think of Charlottesville. Think of pizza gate think of lane Davis who stabbed his own father after an argument over the conspiracy theory about liberal. Pedophiles face can kill and Facebook is recognized this I saw they hide Nathaniel of fullness, cybercrimes prosecutor in the US department of Justice, and in March of this year, Mark Zuckerberg announced, a companywide, pivot towards privacy and encrypted messaging, including services like what's up which they own. But David coke, Patrick, founder of tacona me knows that the pivot carries its own problems. If you look at South Asia, where there's a lot of ethnic discord. Political violence, notably in India, Indonesia, Myanmar Sri Lanka, one of the primary ways that that's spreads is in group messages in what's that people in the US don't typically use what's at for group messages. But in, in places like India, and Indonesia, they do these groups on five or six people, you'll, you'll parents on your brother and sister. These are like you subscribe to a political leader or a religious zealot. So this is more like the dear leader being piped into your home. Right. So the problem has been almost more severe in those systems than on Facebook itself of fake news, and ethnic hatred being disseminated because what's that is a encrypted service. So the service itself can't even see what the messages, are that are being distributed was scared. It doesn't take any technical sophistication or knowledge, on the part of people writing these messages. Spreading this misinformation that using what's up. Yeah. And these are just messaging apps and social media platforms, but what they mean. Is that a single message can spread like wildfire? And of course, the history of new communication technology tends to go hand in hand with violence, when the printing press, I books came to Europe. They unleashed religious woes, but they also made the wolves literate and we've mentioned this. Before technology is usually dual use which relates back to deep fakes mostly when you read about deep fakes probably thanks in part to the Kuldeep fakes the coverage is very positive. There have been more and more stories, though, about positive uses for deep fakes. So when we come back, I'm going to tell you more about how I faked my own voice, and also some of the things that I learned in the process. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as a thank you during small business month. Dell is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Cool. Eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell fatigue advice, and one of them, punish ship. We started this conversation a few weeks ago, and then US those degree that these artificial boys, based on your identity. That's Jose Sotela the co founder of Lyre bird there. The company who made robot CARA and helped me prank my cousin and they've published a version of their tools online at liar, bird dot AI. Here's how it works. I know it might sound he'd like Mudgee both in reality. They way out the arrogance work is basically, they are just a better much ING algorithms. And so it's trying to figure out how to identify the butter senior boys by comparing it against thousands of older voices, actually, tens of thousands of other voices. I'm trying to figure out what is it? That makes your voice unit. Once Jose's algorithms identified what was unique about my voice, obviously, everything they had the building blocks they needed to make a fake. Then we sent Jose, a set of sentences, we wanted robot carat assay, and he used another. Of algorithms to turn the text into what we heard the way they do. This is they use what's called a generative adversarial network again, which is a system where one neural net tries to trick, another one thousand times per second. So each time the second network detects a fake the first one tries again. It basically learns from its mistakes. And once it tricks its, adversary, it's ready to show its results in our case Lyre bird pits my fake voice against my real voice until it sounds like this sub dog is CARA as technology becomes more widely available. So does the potential for abuse. And while labor develops technology, they don't take the ethics lightly, but Jose has an entirely different fear. We believe that the biggest risk of these kind of technology comes from the fact that a lot of people know about, I believe, society's not ready for what's going to happen when these technology becomes widespread. On. So I really want to make my best if fourteen trying to show case it to the public so that they are at least prepare for what's coming when people know a scheme exists, they're less likely to be tricked by it. But if you don't know deep fakes or possible you're much more likely to fall for them, Leslie might have been better equipped to call. My bluff, had she known it was even possible. But here's the thing will there are inevitable misuses of death fakes both behind us. And on the horizon, there are a number of extrordinary benefits of this technology, which is why Jose is working on it. When do bar, the knows we elicits because they start to lose their movements. Skills in, let's say their hands or their fee until the go-to, little, Duran, the, you know, at this can be a lists. These gets progressively worse. This was the case for Pat Quinn. The co founder of the ice bucket challenge of hope. A real fight within the analysts commuting the public bound now. That was diagnosed with LS, and ultimately took his ability to speak walk and use his hands. During this time seems there on deal the loser voice, they have some time. And so the idea is that during this time they will be able to record themselves. Ideally in re high-quality sitting them based on these recordings will be able to create an artificial Gopi of the voice, which they will be able to continue using for the rest of their life. Lyre bird has partnered with the AMA less foundation to create project, reverse just imagining how it would feel for them to. Let's say they'll be able to tell their husband or their wife, I love you anymore to dill these kids, and so using the technology and they are able to keep this really important part of their entities using the exact same technology. I used to create my deep fake liar bird was able to give Pat the ability to preserve his voice for the rest of. His life is during feelings aiming I Lawrence, designing time is like, really realize how all out Berge a boy's really in Zelin statement from news. Right. Moise says on back has very busy, citing taken for me, say something was enjoyed no one else at your voice. Since revising Pat library has received a number of emails from AL, less patients asking, if it's possible for them to do the same thing preserve this part of themselves, which they know they're going to lose. And Jose is heard from people who have lost family and other ways. Thanks jones. We have received quite that'll actually, very emotional emails of people telling somebody regional these my wife died three months ago, and I have two children age forum seeks, and I would really, really love to be able to deal them. A good night story in the voice of their motor or to tell them that in the mother's voice. I love you. I am proud of you. Be happy the tools on Labor Day. I or intentionally less advanced and meant to just spread awareness. But liar, birds more bespoke tools, open amazing possibilities for changing how we deal with loss and grief. I would like to ask you just one question which is like, how would you feel that say about? The recording voice of your Berenson and keeping them what they think, would you like to lease or, or how you feel about that. It was interesting. When Jose asked me because I'd actually thought about it ever since I learned about Lyre bird. When I was fifteen so fourteen years ago, my dad died in a fatal car accident in nobody prepares for accidents in a one minute. My dad walked out the door and forty five minutes later. The police showed up at the same door to tell us what happened. And so I never got to see or speak to my dad ever again. Sometimes my therapist will ask me if I think about what I would talk about with my dad if he was still alive. And I always say that, you know, I don't I don't think about that too much because it's sad to think about that because he's not actually around. And because I know I can't talk about him, but it's also hard to conceive of, you know, I can't recall off the top of my head, what he sounds like and sometimes I'll hear his voice when we watch home movies, and it always spooks me out. So the idea of having his disembodied voice asked me things, like how do you like working on this podcast or what's the most amazing thing? You've learned or even saying things like I'm so proud of you, do you know that I'm not sure how I'd react to his voice like that. Regardless, the thought of it is something in the realm of possibility is equal parts chilling an exciting I actually think given the chance I might do it. This is not the science fiction thing of or something that will exceed one hundred years from now. It's something that exceeds, still very today, people get an even Golan untried and is my cousin Leslie learned these deep fakes to good enough to use on unassuming family members sup. This isn't CARA. This is art official Tara. Oh my God. My voice right now. This is awful skipping. When we started reporting on deep fakes I never on -ticipant at how moving the technology could be I was more focused on the dangers, and they always considering to one person who is out in front, bringing awareness, the potential homes that fake media is Danielle Citron. She's a legal professor at university of Mary land, and the author of hate crimes in cyberspace machine learning technology in neural networks can learn from your photo and voice that's taken from recordings of your voice can sufficiently learn enough about your face. And the way it moves, and your voice so that it can create really incredibly difficult to debunk videos of you doing and saying things you never did. Now, we'll know how dangerous the simple reason word can be Danielle got interested in how fake video could increase the full of hate exponentially, either as a whole Reddit thread devoted to fake sex videos of. Celebrities, female celebrities like a Watson and Hathaway and others. You went through the thread, which I did you can see the conversation moving beyond Milwaukee, even to my bitch, girlfriend, or that woman, I hated in high school. And it was it was all conversation about women. You know what I thought was like the evil of Cyrus, docking was all based on crude doctored photos of some naked. But if you worked at it, you could figure it out now, we can put people into pornography in ways that are devastate their careers. So car. I do think it says something of this new technology is being used to target women and all of these conversations are happening on the same forums on Reddit the movement was boom, right? So I think this is especially important when we talk about famous women, and their likeness, a lot of men on the internet want to see their favourite actresses in positions that they wouldn't be able to see those actresses in. And so, with this technology, it's quite easy to put someone's face on somebody else's body without the consent of the actual actress, and actually sag the Screen Actors Guild held a panel, a few weeks ago to bring this up that like, yes, we're, we're talking about this in terms of democracy and our political system and the upcoming election. But we also have to talk about this in terms of the livelihood of women who make money on their likeness, and whose likeness is now being misappropriated because it can destroy their careers. And silence them there's actually case in India, where people attempted to us. Fate pornography to intimidate and silence. A journalist cooled run. I you've, I'm I spoke about that case with, Danielle the Indian journalist who had been very critical of Hindu politics, nationalist, politics and deep fake sex. Video sort of with spread basically, to discredit her and spread through texting networks and went viral and she basically was devastated in went off line stop writing for like three weeks. She's a journalist. This is what she does for a living. Right. So imagine that kind of granular individual harm and compare it with harmed to see ios the night before an IPO deep fake is released. The chose this person, taking a bribe or doing drugs, or whatever making it up. But that tanks the IPO, right. This kind of video manipulation used to be confined to places like Disney and the output was blockbuster movies that are fictional, but not fake. Now, a is being consumerist. And the tools to create convincing video a spreading, and that means creating the kind of chaos. Danielle describes is also more and more accessible that threatens all of us. One person well-heeled. The issue is Hanni Farid, Dartmouth university, who has been cooled the father of digital forensics. I'm concerned that. Once we know you can create fake content. There is nothing stopping anybody from saying that any video is fake everybody has plausible deniability, so rewind two years ago when the access Hollywood tape came out, President Trump saying what he does to women, the response from the campaign was not this is fake. It was we apologize. This was locker room talk. They found ways of trying to excuse it if that was today one hundred percent guaranteed. He would have said it was fake. And in fact, a year ago after having apologized for the for the audio recording, he said it was fake, and so now politicians have plausible deniability and at times. When are you as president is demonizing, the press in telling everybody that you can't believe anything that credible deniability holds some weight? And so I'm extremely concerned. Now. How do we distinguish? What's what, and that I think, for democracy is going to be incredibly challenging. When nothing is believable, the mischief doer can say it's a lie doomsaying, like the person who commits the crime or does something and says something incriminatory can save. That's a fake. So the more you educate people, but deep fakes evil. Doers can leverage that and say, well, you can't believe anything, right? Danielle cool. Sister, lives dividend in a world where nothing could be trusted everything can be denied and even documented bad deeds can be explained away. This kind of thing is accelerated, by deep fakes that which is why I think there are some attempts to correct it with law with low, like the anti fake, slow very similar the malicious deep fake prohibition act of twenty eight teen which was introduced by this Republican Senator from Nebraska named Ben Sasse, and it basically aims to outlaw fraud in connection to audiovisual records. But I don't know if this law will pass on any case, not old fakes on malicious. And so we have to be careful when lows which to brood as we heard a new Aliabad piece, there's an amazing, the positive applications of deep, fake technology, his Hani Farid talking about deep fakes and the movie business, can you imagine a world where the actor can simply license their appearance and they never have to show up on the set. You say, look, here's a bunch of images of me. Synthesize me doing whatever you want. I'm basically an animated character for you. Then then anybody can be in the movies. You can imagine customized movies, imagine I go to move and say, look, I'd like to see this movie, but with George Clooney and not Kevin Spacey in it. Please synthesize. That for me it, can we do that today or tomorrow? No. But in theory that is essentially where we're going. So if you haven't seen some of these people are creating all these deep fake videos of Nick, cage and inserted into all these different movies. That's essentially, not it's not the full length movie they're doing it into clips. But that's essentially the trend where you can just put your favorite actor or actress, and do whatever movie you on and just watch it. It's personalized movies. I'm not gonna lie. I find it super weird that nNcholas cage become the poster boy, full having his face deep fakes into those movies. I wonder if you actually asked internet nerds, y Nick cage and what do you think? I have no idea what he kind of already mean right? He was and he was in face off where his face was switched with another person's face. So he's always sort of. The poster child for face swapping. You know, I think actually one thing that I thought about is this idea of representation, you know, if there's a movie or movies or series like JAMES BOND, where the lead character has been historically, white boys one and you wanna show your African American son. James BOND, it would be kind of cool to make JAMES BOND black, right? Because then your child could be watching a movie where JAMES BOND looks like your child. Absolutely. I think one of the big problems in the movie business in the media business. In general, is representation so more people do have access to this technology now, but it used to be that only a Hollywood special effects company would have access to this technology when you remove the gatekeepers, you got these incredible explosions of culture, but you will also get real threats to the social fabric. And so in the case of deep fakes that old very well, when they're labeled as fake, or when we know that fake. But when the posing as real. Real. That's when we start to be really under threat, I think, as a society, but they're all people working on this as a cat and mouse, when we come back. We'll talk about some of the ways that fighting back. Tom Chelsea handler. And I'm launching a brand new podcast with iheartradio called life will be the death of me. And I'm gonna talk to all these different people, my BFF Mary McCormack. That's what we should call. My book tour the apology, or great idea. Sorry. Everyone on this whole podcast should be called. It should be called with the orange because of the orange theme in the book Archie. Glad I went to therapy. Life will be the death of me with Chelsea handler. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. When it comes to deep fakes Pandora's books is open. And as a argues, there's no turning back the clocks, the technology exists, so knowing deep fakes fake news. A becoming more sophisticated I wanted to find out how actual news organizations thinking about the problem. So I spoke with John Nicolas. Wait editor-in-chief of Bloomberg news. And he actually started by pointing out the fake news isn't news. I think one crucial thing when you look if newses to MIT always made in the in the first page of fake news, was the Trojan horse, fake news and propaganda have ever been some of the more exotic weapons in global conflict. John points to another example involving the famous British by, and author of JAMES BOND in Fleming, supposedly, one of his great, schemes was to drop lots of jumbo-sized condoms over Gemini. The label sort of British small on the outside, and then name with the aim. No doubt wrongly destablizing German mannered that my point is there are many, many ways in which you can do this. But the most interesting to me, about fake news. Is that really in modern history? It's tied very heavily technology. What tends to happen is a new technology comes along, which somebody sets media free if we look to history, we can understand this moment, better, we mentioned, the early printing press before and how it enabled explosions of ideology, and let your religious conflicts. Well, when the printing press was industrialized in the nineteenth century, that was another fake news. Boom goodbye to say to you, one, you have the invention, the steam press in London, and what not does is a Naples, people to multiple by ten the amount of paper that you can print suddenly, all the way across Europe and that in America, free ship. Newspaper stars bringing up because you couldn't distribute foam, or you can reach foam or people fumble quickly and the most notorious of this was the New York sun. One time, I think the world's biggest-selling paper run by Michael Benjamin day, and he would run stories like the moon was populated by people who are half human half bat, but what happened and I think this will happen again is consumers said, we don't want to read that we need facts. And so if you look back at many of the big newspapers of our time the New York Times the economists where I used to work, many of these things came from that particular period, because people paid more to get things. They trusted will that is definitely happening again. In other words, most of the high quality press today, the New York Times, the economist, which Joan also edited came from consumer damone, trustworthy information, and that same consumer demand may help us out of today's predicament, but there is one key difference. Now we have d. Fakes. It's worth a lot of money to a lot of people to try to fool us. So you look at things like Twitter handles on quite the same as a make sure between humans and computers. You used to, to deal with those what is harder. The moment is video such give you an example. I think a year Rothera guy, though. Some tack at a subway in New York, we could verify really quite quickly that the subway attack had happened that almost immediately, there was a picture on Twitter of one of the alleged assailant lying in a pool of blood now, trying to verify that, that was true was much harder. And it came down to things like working out, whether that was the correct subway floor. You can look at pixels, you can look at all those different things. But yes, verifying video is often harder than verifying facts. Do you have any tools? Oh technologies that you'll be nice and saying spending money on. We, we spend a lot of money on technology across all these fronts, with more and more news coming directly from social media, large new graduations, like Bloomberg news. Need to be able to verify? Which photos and videos real, and whether they actually relate to the events, they're investigating which is why Hani Farid is in such high demand. Suddenly the, the need to authenticate content has really global implications. Everything from our courts, to our national security to our democratic elections to citizen safety, starting to rely on our ability to tell the real from the fake. And so I think this field of forensics, this field of authentication has never been more important. And that's what Honey spends his days, working on at Dartmouth, he develops techniques to analyze and authenticate digital media ahead of the twenty twenty elections. He's working what he calls a soft by metric tool to detect fake videos of specific politicians such as bunny Saunders, Elizabeth Warren, and Donald Trump. I would say the game is going to be that we never eliminate the ability to create fake content. But what we do is we raise the bar. We take it out of the hands of the. Cheers, we take it out of the hands of the average person downloading some code, and we make it more difficult more time consuming and more risky. And this is the same thing that we do with counterfeit currency, you can still create counterfeit currency today, but it's really hard still a risk, but it's a more manageable minutes on the subject of money. There are digital currencies which much more difficult to counterfeit then coins and banknotes, you've had of bitcoin and theory, which you're able by blockchain, a so called distributed ledger, information about transactions is shed between all the uses of the currency rather than authenticated, and guarded by a Bank sharing. This kind of information across a crowd of people with multiple backup copies. Has a range of uses one thing, Hani is looking at is using block chain to authenticate images and videos at source we're going to start seeing the use of different type of Cameron. So there are now companies out there that create what are called secure imaging pipelines. And so when you record an image or video they extract a unique signature from that content. They cryptographic Lee signed it, and they put that on the blockchain, so that's basically a distributed ledger that very very hard. If not impossible to manipulate staying ahead of the perpetrators and making fakes more difficult is the best we can do. But what about I'll usage? How much responsibility do we have to navigate the web thoughtfully, and how much responsibility should be on the platforms? We have Facebook Twitter, we have yelp, because they're not responsible for user generated content. What's interesting? Is that light Nathaniel at Facebook? Danielle also sees risks in overzealous motivation. If you put too much responsibility on the platform, you will likely incentivize over censorship. So all the great things that we think about a lot of these platforms. In a specially the social media, the parkland survivors or black lives matters. Right. We don't wanna lose the. Ability and new enablement for organizing in speech. So if you put too much liability in the platforms, they're going to overreact, and anything anyone complains about, and have very aggressive filters. So we might very well. Miss Black lives matter. We might not have parkland and never see it, because you're going to have overly aggressive censorship. His Nathaniel again whenever people come together in a new medium. You're gonna have people that try to manipulate and try to take advantage. I think one of the things that's really fundamentally true that we have done when we think about the internet, generally social media, as well is we've removed, some of the traditional gate, keeping mechanisms that have existed in the past, and that has meant that far more people could engage much more quickly and much more vocally than ever before. And that has led to some incredible things if you think about the metoo movement, which really part of what drives it in Nabil's. It is the ability to route around some of those gatekeepers. Right. But at the same time, you're also gonna see militias actress try to misuse that. I think that is a fundamental truth for. Any form of media. The question is, how do you enable authentic engagement while making the types of manipulation that we see more difficult, if they book and other platforms ought to destructive of society? Ultimately, everyone loses even the technology companies and their shareholders. So how do we move from understanding that to finding solutions, his David Cook Patrick again? If we are going to retain democracy, we need technical systems digital systems technologies that more effectively and persuasively compellingly distribute knowledge, so that we have citizens that are capable of functioning in a democratic landscape. That is more complex more rapidly changing and ultimately more global. And as far as Hani Farid is concerned, this has become everyone's problem. So we all have to play in solving it. I think two things are going to have to change. The one is the technology authenticates going to have to get better. So whether that's both indicating the source of the types of things that I do without indicating content and operating that at scale that's going to have to get better. But I think what's also going up to changes, how we as consumers of digital content. Think about what we see, we are going to have to become more critical. More reason we have to get out of our echo chambers. We have to stop. Allowing social media to manipulate us in the way that they do. So I think the solution is at least two prong, and potentially three with some legislative relieved on the line to really force. The companies to do better than they have been over the last few years. So does the good outweigh the bad. I don't know. We have to have a hard conversation people in who work in infectious disease, and physicists, who developed weaponry, they think about this all the time, we as technologies have not quite thought about this as much in the past because our field is so young. But I think now you know, it's time to wake up and start asking those hard questions and having those conversations before it's too late. Once again, we being a to wake up from us sleep book, and we do have some onces at least when it comes to deep fakes we can make it akin to counterfeiting money. The people who do it, we'll get prosecuted and program, as like Honey will work on the -tection technology. But we still have to hold the bills up to the light before we decide whether to accept them. That's all job. That is, if we're not too busy, watching nNcholas cage, starring as Thelma and Louise in Thelma and Louise. Even more complicated than deep fakes is the concentration of power at companies like Facebook in the next episode we visit a secret lab, Google to understand what happens when technology companies start taking on the role of the state, and we speak with Lena Khan who has proposed new regulation to balance. The power of big technology companies like Amazon, I must Voloshin see you next time. Sleep is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions for the latest news live interviews, and behind the scenes footage. Find us on Instagram at sleepworks put cost oh sleep. Well, because podcasts dot com sleep wilko's is hosted by me, Voloshin, and co hosted by me care price, with produced by Julian weta, with help from yucca, penzo and Taylor chicane, mixing by trista McNeil, and Julian Wella recording systems this episode from Tofa. Ralph Austria to is Matthew riddle sleep will is executive produced by me, Osbourne ocean, and Monge had to get the mole podcast from out radio. Visit the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts, always have you listen to your favorite shows. This month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. The tech advice and one of them, punish ship.
Dull, Dirty, Dangerous
"The month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership. Sleep focus is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions. AI will a make phenomenal companies and tycoons faster. And it will also displace jobs faster than computers. The internet is already happening. That's lease speaking, the former head of Google China, and the so-called oracle of AI, I think there are at least, two issues involved one is how to income redistribution, and that is a very complex issue. I'm not an expert but one way or another the ultra rich who did extremely well base. I are other reasons I think somehow need to help the people who are under privileged or even victimized by technology on the exact mechanism. I don't know. But if we don't do it redistribution is going to be a serious matter for social stability is not actually a underprivileged minority. It will become a underprivileged majority. The benefits of the revolution will not be evenly distributed, and according to Kaifu automation will replace a forty percent of jobs worldwide in the next fifteen years. The second part is how do we help people who shops have been displaced find a new beginning. We asked the question. What can I an automation, not doom? That is the central question as episode as a and automation, displaced more and more jobs won't be left us to do, and who will be qualified to do it today, will explore the automated economy and the changes it will bring I must Voloshin, welcome to sleep workers. So cara. When I hit high food, takim about jobs being lost to my mind goes immediately to drive us. 'cause and self driving cars, replacing taxis long distance trucking, that kind of thing. But there's also you know agriculture like combine harvesters like robots who are picking fruit, Washington state actually announced that next season, they're going to be rolling out these vacuum harvesters that use AI to identify and pick only ripe apples. Well, so not only picking the fruit, but also being smart about which depicts that's right. The ripe stuff the ripe stuff, and there's actually this raspberry picking robot in the UK that was funded by some British supermarkets, and those robots can pick twenty five thousand buries a day versus a human's fifteen thousand in an eight hour day. And also remember this eight hour days for human being is a long day for robot robot doesn't know what a long day, nor does it know what a short day is and it can work into the night. Right. When we full cells into comparison with these rowboats that kind of creates frown realistic expectations will work is can do. Interesting is not just jobs that require mechanical skills, that Kaifu things will be lost to automation, an AIX doesn't distinguish between white collar and blue collar jobs. So any job has routine element. Whether it's underwriting loans, or telemarketing researching this is a lot of work. The first AI podcast may not be too far off. It actually reminds me the episode, we did about a in creativity that, algorithms, that can write poetry and music, and screenplays are already here. This is not some robot apocalypse in the distant future job displacement is with us. Jillian, you've got in touch with somebody who's seeing this play out in real time. Yeah. Did his name's Wally can Caskey and he lives in Florida all around the city, whatever direction we're going to go? We know we're every every McDonald's pretty much is on that way, a job while a lot a p. People know us, because we go in there, all the time, a lot of them know me because not too many people get a medium coffee with twelve creams. You could twelve. Yeah. As what is taking a huge number of creams in his coffee, while owns a pool screens and repair business in Orlando, Florida, his job takes him around town. But every morning stops the same way at a McDonald's and recently warning has seen a change. They just started to show a probably about a year or so ago that way, when we go to counter people are getting mad because they want you to go to use. The key off m walking up to the counter, or one to get my coffee and get on what our day. They're like, oh, you got to use the key us. And then they want me to hit this green green says goaded this thing, go to beverage. Okay. Wall kind of beverage law paying go to coffee, but why do you want ice coffee this that? And then instead of me saying twelve cream and she hears me now. I get a hit the machine like twelve times. Well times to get it because I times I gotta hit it to get the twelve. The thing is not someone out of a job. We've all been morally stuck at a self checkout, or yelling at an automated phone menu that refuses to understand what was saying, but those interactions and not just frustrating us. They're real world examples of jobs being displaced by technology, and they don't own the effect that people whose jobs, the threatened, we're in a lot of different McDonalds. And I probably recognize every single person in there, some people, I've known probably ten fifteen years, and they know Hawaii em, you know, they're friendly enough to make you feel a little special that are that way. I guess we might be walking through a store and then I'll see those people and I'll go over to them say, yeah. You're from McDonald's of that. And then they'll be like, yeah. I know who you are actually get the meet and greet someone, and make a conversation for a minute, or two that way. Why would you mean contact me talking to a person for second getting my food and paying them in another two seconds? There shouldn't have been nothing wrong with that process. So janine. How did this come about what made you want to include? He story in the post offer. One thing I, I love Wally, but these are also familiar stories. Right. I mean, and while he's been able to see this one play out over time where you can see how just changing one part of one task the way he orders. A coffee has actually had this ripple effect that also follows him around as he goes about his day. Yeah. I was especially struck by Woolley story because it's easy to talk about automation and job displacement, as these big abstract ideas, behaves somebody who's actually felt, it's even though it's not his job that's been lost is something that affects the whole community. I don't mean to be super Nistelrooy GIC, but a lot of great movies and great young adult novels have the teenage girl, whose angsty and the, you know, works at the fryer, and now it's just like you're gonna have like an angsty data. Scientist mulling over the express checkout, crochet over the screen. Well, those, those golden notches. They're very enduring symbol for America and other this year. Mcdonnell's quiet an AI company for three hundred million dollars. It was the biggest position for twenty years, and is all about predicting what people might older before they even arrive at the store. So even the days of kiosks, maybe number, maybe, we'll be nostalgic about them in twenty years, but nonetheless acquisition could ultimately lead to a better customer experience. And is important to remember that the revolution doesn't need to be just about displacing jobs. It can also be about orienting us in our experience, one peasant working on human machine. Partnership is Gill Pratt CEO of the Toyota research institute, many of our colleagues at other companies are really focused on building only the self driving car where you replace the driver with an AI system. But we also have this other track of building something that we called the guardian, which was meant to safeguard of human being Wednesday drive to avoid accidents. Into a void crashes. I think the guardian approach has been at odds, because of money, the economic desire to replace the driver in a taxi is very large. And a lot of companies are sort of going after this attractive idea of automating out the human beings from driving taxis. But, you know, Toyota is first and foremost, a car company, which means that we have this business of making cars. We also wanna make cars, a lot more safe, and we also want to make them a lot more fun. Gil makes an important point today. Innovation is driven by the market companies like Uber and tested. Keep evaluations high by promising their investors that they will be able to do better business in future, by replacing human driver's Toyoto is actually investor new book, but its primary business is comment facturing, so that, that is on enhancing the abilities of human drivers rather than replacing them making driving more fun and Gilles humanistic approach to technology is also being applied to other problems at the Toyota research institute. We want to allow people to age in place with dignity. And in particular, we want to help them by amplifying their abilities to make for what was lost rather than replacing their abilities and make them feel as if they're elderly, it's a subtle difference, and it's very easy to get it wrong. It's very easy to build a technology. That is extensively going to help some someone. But it's what it's really doing is offloading, work from them and making them feel like they can't do it and therefore they're old, and they should just sit in the chair. It's much harder to figure out a way, particularly in the robotics field to continue to engage the person so that they feel like they can do it themselves. And that's a little bit of a difference in how we try to do things there's one that we've recently started to show, which is a machine called the buddy. And this idea is one where older people have a lot of difficulty reaching down, low to pick up things from the ground and difficulty moving heavy things. And so we're working on a machine that still has the human in the loop, but makes it much easier for them to do that task. Begin understands the no matter how much robotics may be able to help solve the practical challenges of life as an older person. It can never replace a human cap provider, just to be very, very clear. We don't want to replace people as companions. We think that what human beings want. Most of all, in a companion is another human being. So companion. This brings us back to what was saying right at the top of the episode. What can AI an automation, not do so? Yeah. Gill acknowledges that no matter how much progress is made in the field of robotics to help elderly people, nothing's going to make up for human contact. I actually was able to talk to Sherry terkel, who's a professor at MIT who talks, a lot about human beings in their relationship with technology, and she talks about this fluffy seal robot called Perreault, which is used in nursing homes to soothe Alzheimer's patients, and it can simulate this affectionate little animal, and it can be really effective at drawing people out of their shells. When they're otherwise hard to reach or feeling disoriented on the other hand, and this is Sheri's argument. It becomes really easy for family members to be like, well, you know, my grandpa has this, you know, seal at home. I don't need to go visit him all the time. And I know that sounds extreme. But it's more of the idea of the fact that we're using these robots to make us feel better about calming people who could otherwise have strong relationship. With. Yeah. I think it will. So normalizes the idea of interacting with robots technology instead of real people. And that's painful now a while he was really talking about. Yes, it's frustrating to have to use the kiosk when he won't twelve creams with your coffee. But more important leader roads community bones. It's no wonder that a company like McDonald's is spending a ton of money on this. It makes them more efficient and profitable if they don't have to pay people. Yeah. It is how to turn back the clocks you. Don't Trump talks about bringing back the coal jobs, but jobs that have been lost a very hard to recreate. It doesn't make me think about Kaifu's comment at the top of the episode about the underprivileged majority, you'll know a Harari, who's coming to join us later in the series talks about a useless class. When we come back, we look at what this means for the people at the sharp end the people losing their jobs tool to mation and some of the proposed solutions. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as a thank you during small business month. Dell is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processes, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Cool. Eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. The tech advice and one on one punish. According to an ox time into national report published earlier this year, the twenty six richest billionaires in the world have as much wealth as the poorest three point eight billion people and many of those billionaires made their foot shoots from technology. Jeff Bezos is the world's richest person thanks to Amazon. Meanwhile, Amazonas investing hundreds of millions of dollars in automating supply. Shane in other words, attempting to cut out the labor force, who made the business possible is a bit like Uber's investment in self driving technology. So what jobs might be safe from the relentless March towards automation? I asked Kaifu Lee, my general feeling is that these will be the human interaction jobs. The compassionate empathetic jobs, the jobs that we expect a human and refused to work with a robots that would doubly ensure these jobs are safe because one a I can't do them now and to even if I got better customers don't accept it. Then those jobs will become the right. Areas to retrain, people to move into so jobs like, nurses, manny's, elderly care, high end jobs like psychiatrists and doctors because the future, it will be different. AI can do the elliptical part, but the doctor will still need to provide the warmth and the human contact. That's the patient expects during the worst period that Filner ability. What we may move more towards ordering kiosks and help menus all not even needing to order at all Kaifu, agrees with, Gil will still need to human touch in a range of industries, many of them centered around cat, and human services, and it striking to hear these two pioneers of new technology, Kaifu, AI, and Gil in robotics agree. Both arguing the automated might increase the value of what is uniquely human guilt has the history to back up his argument. He looks at how understanding of our own value as humans shifted during the industrial revolution away from the ability of our bodies towards the ability of our minds. You know, if you go back in history, and you say, how did people earn a living back in the days of mechanical work? There wasn't no steam engines, no use of gasoline or oil or anything like that. And the answer was the economic capital human being would have just by being born was primarily mechanical. Our muscles made us worthwhile at a minimum level, and machines effectively took over most of the mechanical work that we do. And so we now are valued mostly what we can do with our minds assuming that this next stage of AI occurs, where most of the mental labor that is done is displaced. What I think we need to think about now is, what will, we do then, and we need to think about it, even if this next stage of AI doesn't come for a while, because we went from mechanical to mental is there something next. Is this something next that is the trillion dollar question? According to kill the industrial revolution, led us to place more value on the mind and the muscle. Now today I could increase before mental labor, but we find a new source of value and could it be like Kaifu hinted at as well, some emotional connection when I read a story to my son, it matters a whole lot to him when I read a story, too. My mother, it's very much the same thing. So could we actually decide to increase the values that we pay for social worth? There's many, many different jobs that really should be paid much much higher than they are now jobs of teaching and helping so forth. And so I'm an optimist that we can find an answer. But I think we need to realize the difficulty in order to move towards an answer. The difficulty is huge. Because as of now accepting the world of luxury, the market does not reward the kind of human contact that Kaifu and Gil allude to. And while we like woolly may wish for food orders not to be automated. How much more would we pay for human contact how much more could we afford to pay part of the problem is automation is exacerbating, the gap between rich and poor technology companies can increasingly create wealth without needing to pay the wages of additional employees. That's the secret behind that word you hear so often scale which is why Kaifu Lee proposes a radical solution. If we start to redistribute, the income, that is taking away the power of the ultra rich, if we start to give the people who are stripped of their current jobs, a new job, that has not only income, but also meaning I think people would be more fulfilled their children that lease with have a chance, just to pose Kaifu Lee is a hugely successful international investor all giving that. We need to overturn one of the most fundamentalists options of American society that the market should be allowed to set the. Price and Kaifu is not alone. Others in Silicon Valley are calling for a so-called universal basic income, aside Penn paid to all citizens to acknowledge an increasingly broken relationship between labor and value today. We know close on either of those ideas, but a growing chorus of inside voices is a knowledge in that automation will bring further disruption to society, and others have even greater fears. You may remember in Bremen from our episode on China and surveillance. He's a political scientist and the author of us versus them. The failure of globalism. I am less worried about just jobs going away. Then I am about technology, facilitating the creation of completely different types of human beings. What happens when you have the ability to actually provide completely different sets of cognitive skills to human beings that have access to certain types of new technology? EM's fear is that as technology improves the rich went simply reproduced that privilege through elite universities and professional networks. They may sought to upgrade that very hardware, making social mobility, even harder for those who can't afford the same modifications better memory retention better pattern recognition more ability to link to real time information and the global net. I mean, -bility not to sleep for longer periods of time. All of this sort of thing. Right. The danger is that I don't care how much money how much wealth in society when you start creating that kind of differentiation everything we know about human history is that that doesn't end. Well, those other people that aren't as capable get treated like animals or worse. And I am very deeply worried that the speed of technological transformation coupled with the speed of this new industrial revolution makes it much more likely that, large. Numbers of people in our own societies. Not in other countries. But, like right here are suddenly not gonna have that capacity, and we're going to treat them as different types of unions. Maybe not even as Younes at all. This is the truly to soap you in future that we will fee CARA, this concept of a to track humanity facilitated by technology where some people have value and others. Don't. Yeah. You know, this is the dark version of trans humanism, which we're gonna talk about later in the series. But it's not some scifi fantasy. Our favorite pre super villain. Ilan musk founded neural link which aims to create brain computer interfaces, like why do we need that? Well, I guess, because in today's economy, being smart is seen as the most important differentiating factor here. But we're not talking about being an intellectual like we're talking about being cognitively enhanced by a computer or by technology and Elon Musk isn't the only person who noticed how important it is to be coating, Tiffany and hung shall? We say last year. The World Bank announced a program called the feminine action mechanism to get relief to famine hit areas foster and they explicitly said, one of the reasons that doing this is that because people who in the womb may have. Cognitive issues later in life, and thus be unable to compete in the new economy. No, I found it really interesting that this program is actually powered by it draws on data, like social media food, prices rainfall, and then automatically assigns funds. So that money gets words needed before it's too late. It's a textbook case of what I can do. And we come to notice these patterns and correlations between different types of data sets, which so biggest would be impossible for us to compute an as often sleep book is, is an example of technology being a double edged sword on one day. Maybe widening the gap between rich and pool. But on the other hand, it can potentially feed the woes. When we come back, we explore other ways a in robotics can revolutionize food production. One of the things we're learning on sleep. Wokers is just how valuable data is it allows companies and governments to make predictions about what we're going to do next. And if it falls into the hands of people who won't to home us, that's even more dangerous. So if you're on public wifi or unencrypted internet, anywhere, you'll pass was in credit card numbers, not safe. That's why I use express VPN, which secures an anonymous internet browsing with just one. Click is a service, several of my friends who have been China use to access band services like g mail. What's happening to Graham? Protect your online night to its today and find out how you can get three months free at express VPN dot com slash sleep wokers. That's E. X. P. E. S S. VPN dot com slash sleep wokers for three months free with a one year package. Visit express VPN dot com slash leap. Walkers to learn more. We've looked at how AI in robotics could exacerbate the Gulf between rich and pool and how this new industrial revolution could put a new value on human connection, but could we use automation to actually decrease global inequality? One key factor is access to quotas nutrition. Andrew Buddhist, Jewish cantor. Gave it to class year at south by south west cooled AI will help feed a growing planet wants to learn more. So I called him for conversation from his office at the robotics institute of Connie human. A lot of people when they think about robots and technology being used to assist agriculture. Think about robots driving around and picking grapes or plowing fields and things like that. But despite being a robotics expert Georgia's currently focusing on crop genetics way plant breeding works. You have a bunch of parents plant breeder, very carefully uses all his or her experience to figure out which parents will make the best potential children. They make those crosses. They then do these field trials where they grow the child varieties, and they measure them and see how they do and then the winners go back in the pool and the losers. They read out one of the crops, we work with his sorghum. It's grown all over the world. They're like forty thousand different varieties of in particular, the grain sorghum variety is a staple crop in places like sub Saharan Africa India parts of the world where population is growing more rapidly than the rest of the is populations. And the predictions for the impact of global warming are pretty. Hi George uses technology to make the work if human plant breeders dramatically more efficient. But this work is completely invisible to consumers so we have built a robot that goes out to breeding experiment, where breeder has grown thousand different varieties of sorghum, our robot goes through and takes all these detailed measurements about how the plants are growing throughout the year, and then the breeder can use those measurements to make better decisions, the end user of this process. I'm describing won't see any technology at all. They will get a seed that looks just like the seed, they get now accept it will be a little bit better because the breeder improved, it using our robots these invisible changes to the food production system can have huge consequences. Bettez seeds mean better yields and could ultimately lead to a better nourish world. But George is only thing here about how to make haughty a better plants. He's also thinking about another problem. How will we efficiently feed logo population increasingly live in cities and not on the farm? Imagine every building in a city had a little. Greenhouse hanging off the side of dead or a little growing room in the basement. And now you've got these indoor growing systems that tend to generate more heat than they need. So one of their big problems venting off the heat. Well buildings have to pay a lot of money to heat the building. So if you had this sort of symbiotic relationship between the people in the building, and the plants in the building, they could exchange heat and they can exchange atmosphere and all kinds of things. If you take that idea and you scale it up to like a city scale we're now you have dozens or hundreds of buildings that all have these different energy needs different agricultural needs. And they're all sort of sharing you have some sort of overarching, a that controls what energy gets moved where you can imagine that there are big efficiencies, that can be gained. Georgia's outlining vision, wherever Baltics and AI. Help us tackle one of the world's most enduring sources of inequality food access, and doing so kudos to make agriculture more energy efficient and thus begin to address. Another huge problem that will disproportionately affect the world's poorest people climate change. So yes, automation, we'll take jobs away, but it can also potentially raise quality of life and the quality of the global environment. And as far as Josiah's concerned, the type of labor being replaced is known exactly work the maximizes human potential. We call them. Dull dirty dangerous. So jobs that people don't want or are dangerous to do, or people are getting injured in, when I go, visit the grave industry in California, and I see the labors they're out there. They're stooped over under trees. They're doing this extremely backbreaking labor, there are high incidences of repetitive stress injuries and so it's just not a very pleasant environ. To be working in when automation comes into an industry. It takes away some jobs that were there, but it creates other opportunities to for example, most orchards, they'll have sort of a year round staff, maybe a dozen people, and then at certain busy times of the year, they'll bring in maybe one hundred labourers to come in and help with the harvest. I think everybody would be better off, if that orchard had a year round staff of twenty people that were productive all year long. And we're able to use technology to even out these bumps in the labor demand. And so those people those twenty people are going to need to be higher skilled, but they're also going to get paid more, and they're also going to have more comfortable jobs and overall, they will produce more per person than they would in the other system. Of course, the lingering question is what happens to the people who no longer have a job and who gets to enjoy the fruits of this more efficient system technology is improved live. Or around the world and lifted millions out of policy. But it is also dramatically enriched and extremely small number of people. We mentioned Elon Musk's neural in Ghalia, and he's not alone in the Silicon Valley elite investing in trans humanist technologies. That should give us pause. Remembering what Ian Bremmer said about cognitive differentiation. So there's much to fear and there are no Lovie solutions incite. And yet, people like Kaifu Lee, and Gill Pratt people who are leading the field remain optimistic. I wanted to know why there is a strong belief that's thought leaders should do the best they can do to project a possible future as strive towards it and encourage other people to help make that a reality because whether we point at the future that is utopia or this Topi, if everybody believes in it, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. So I'd like to be part of that force, which points towards more of utopian direction, even though I fully understand, and recognize the possibility and risks of the negative ending. We'll want to believe in that utopian direction honestly automation to help feed the world without stripping all cells of community direction because man cannot live on bread alone, and we need to make sure to balance gains in efficiency with preserving the fabric of our society in the next episode. We travel from the formula to the battlefield, we meet some of the people pioneering, the use of AI and robotics to wage different kinds of woes, and we speak with product, the full head of DARPA the agency that created the internet about how technology is revolutionizing the ministry. I must the notion CNN time. Sleepwalk is a production of iheartradio and unusual productions for the latest news live interviews, and behind the scenes footage. Find us on Instagram at sleepworks podcast. Oh, capable because podcasts dot com. Sleep wokers is hosted by me, Voloshin, and co hosted by me care price would produced by Julian weta with help from yucca penzo, and Taylor SHA. Coin mixing by trista McNeil, and Julian Wella, Australia too, is Matthew riddle recording systems there's episode from wool to cow sqi sleep. Walkers is executive produced by me Voloshin and Monge had to get the more podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts all wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, it's all as and CARA. And we want to tell you about a new podcast. We love called unpopular throughout history. People have been denounced demonized for dissenting from the majority, but that didn't stop them from speaking up unpopular is about resistance and pariahs rebels and revolutionaries people like sitting bull Fumi. Lau Ransome-Kuti gotta lay oh, and the mirabal sisters took a chance on what they believed in an inspired real change every week host Eve's tells the story of someone who challenged the status quo. Connecting the dots between their history and the history were making today iheartradio is number one for poed costs, but don't take all would for it. Find unpopular on the iheartradio app. Oh, EV you get your pod costs.
What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
"The month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers. With Intel core processors, call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell for tech advice and one on one partnership. Sleepwalk is a production of iheart radio and unusual productions. I was on a for troll. Elvin the mountains of f- ghanistan, and what was doing reconnaissance patrol with very small ranger team. And I saw someone approaching us young man maybe early twenty s that's pool Shaarei a former army ranger an elite special operative in the US military. There were sort of a couple possibilities. They've came into my mind, one was that he was a goat for just Al taking his goats these grasp. Another was that he might be like a cutter, that's protecting his property, and another one might be that he was someone who had seen us. There wasn't a lot of vegetation in areas. We were pretty exposed, and he was coming to kill us. And those all seem like very real possibilities. Poon you of similar situations where enemy fighters pretended to be civilians concealing their weapons until a last minute ambush. I firmly. Confidence that if we got into a gunfight we could outmatch him or three of us. But if you surprised us, he might have easily killed one of us in the process. I so I wanted to maneuver to position where I could see him and I found him to sitting on the edge of a cliff and looking out over this by valley in he had his back to me. And I settled into position where I could watch him very closely through my sniper rifle was closed after the wind carried his voice towards me. And I could hear him talking that alarmed me because I can see who was talking to pull didn't speak the local Afghan languages. Dario pashto. So he couldn't understand what the man was saying. I thought he might have had a radio and he could be reporting back to maybe a group of fighters a nearby and was weighing the possibility versus maybe he's just talking himself or talking to his goats or something. And then, eventually, I heard him start singing. It is tricky that, if he was singing singing out over the radio to someone our position to make a very strange thing for a fighter to be doing. And at the most likely explanation was he was just an innocent Goater had not that we were there and he was to himself just to pass the time. An so pull low at his sniper rifle, and he left no provocation. No harm done to either side. But that incident really stuck with me because there was a period of time where I didn't know whether he was an innocent person, or a fighter who might have tried to kill us, and the actions, I would take were very different in those two worlds. And now I look back when I think about a Thomas weapons and I think what would a machine do how could machine understand the context that I did and sort of realize it doesn't make sense that a person might be singing a tactical way that's strange. You know, he's probably just innocent person would have machine be able to do that. It's a profound question pool, poses, what happens when something like a predator drone has as much Tony as a self driving car, and canon Eos system ever understand context, which can sometimes mean the difference between life and death. And there's episode would examine AI on the battlefield and a future technology driven warfare. I must notion and this is legal. So CARA lost episode we talked about the future of work, and we focus on one big question, which was what can I not do? And what Paul is talking about identifying whether someone's a shepherd Orden's surgeons identifying targets on the battlefield seems to be one of those things. But on the other hand, it's important for us to ask, what is a good at. You know it's good at making predictions based on data about what might happen next. It's good at seeing patterns. So it makes me think you know, that with enough training, data about battlefield interactions. It could get just as good or better than humans at this task. Yeah. And of course, we didn't have the counterfactual to pull story silently, there's probably many stories where the army ranger doesn't wait to hear the shepherds seeing before deciding what to do and just pulls the trigger an equally as probably many side cases where it does turn out to be an insertion and an ambush happens to the soldiers. So just from that story is not necessarily clear to me that humans are always will always be better than algorithms identify. Targets do think it raises an important question. We are increasingly comfortable outsourcing, many parts of our lives to technology, you know, blue gonna phone love with how are we going to get to our cousin's house? That's decision making though in the world of war, we can also build tools to do things that people don't want to do a lot of people have heard about Boston dynamics, they have this extremely terrifying. Video of this four legged robo dog aptly named spot that can run across bumpy ground. It can go into places that aren't safe for human beings. And they just announced this model with a claw on the back of it that can open doors. There are so many potential uses for this from sixty minutes. She rates to sending spoilt into buildings that are unsafe humans a whole pack of spots can actually pull a truck. There's a video of it online look it up. It's frightening to is the dream would exactly but no, like what's going to happen. When that comes to the world of war, we have packs of robo dog. Well, who knows right features on clear, and that's really the question is episode how will and robotics change the battlefield and how good of an insurance policy is it to keep a human in the loop to have somebody a person controlling the pack of spots. We have from pool Shari at the beginning. He's now the director of technology and national security out of bipartisan think, tank cooled the center for new American security. He's recently written a book called on me of non autonomous weapons and the future of wool. We're moving to a world where machines, maybe making some of the most important decisions on the battlefield about who lives in dies, and as pools, experienced Afghanistan taught him, even elite military training, isn't always enough to tell who is an isn't likely to be a threat. So understandably there's a great worry and handing over target identification to a computer, especially as the stakes are life and death and his pulled. Tells us autonomous weapons are already being produced and sold around the world. The best example today of fully autonomous weapon is a Trump built by Israel called the heartbeat drum, and he's been sold to a number of countries tricky India, China, South Korea. It's own anti radar weapon that is lying search pattern in the sky looking for enemy radars. And when it finds one it can then attack the radar within any further human permission. And that crosses the line to an autonomous weapon, it's able to go find targets and then attack them all by itself. These are not view, Tournus killer, robots, science fiction setting their own goals, and killing will we still send them into battle and tell them what to look for? But we know Noga control exactly what they do, when they get that by analogy you might think about a self driving car. There are degrees of how much a car could be self driving. You could have some like the tesla autopilot today where there's a steering wheel and the human could intervene in grab control of the vehicle. You might have some like Google self driving car that is no steering wheel and a person just merely passenger. But even in a totally self driving car, the humanist choosing the destination kidding in your car. Just send cargo take me where you wanna go. So at some level, humans are always involved, and it's going to be the case in warfare. The question is, when do we cross a threshold where to humans have transferred control of some important and meaningful decisions to machines? And then what are the legal ethical implications of that? It is a hugely important question in the aftermath of the second World War, one hundred ninety six countries signed up to the Geneva Convention setting standards of behavior in battle. But how do we enforce those standards? If the combatants. Machines, not people beyond having a human in the loop. One important piece of the puzzle is a healthy testing and review process, a clear understanding of how a weapon works and the decisions it will make, but according to Richard Dan's eek, a former secretary of the navy that's easier said than done one of the things that concerns me is that the technologies are frequently highly classified, so we for self driving cars. We typically require that there be millions of miles driven. And we insist that external regulators review them for safety in the military context, we don't have millions of miles of experience before combat. And we don't typically have any kind of third party review that says, wait a minute. You're the risks associated with this system spinning out of control. We ought to be using teams to say a what could go wrong. If an adversary wants to. Attack these in subvert, them, Lord when they interact with other systems. This kind of war gaming is valuable. But the best laid plans and standards can crumble in the face of existential threats real perceived, you only need to think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki to understand how quickly restraint can give way to the desire for victory his poll again. As countries feel that their national survival might be at stake. They're going to be willing to take more risks. Put out more experimental weapons, these poison gas will more. One is, I think a terrible example of this happening and practice. Germany was in a panic to find some kind of wonder weapon that might Drake that stalemate so desire to get an upper hand will clearly historically, we've seen lead military's to take risks. And diplo more experimental technology. This is one of the scariest things about water to me CARA, but equally war involving new technology, the potential for misunderstanding and unintended consequences pull mentions deal, most accidentally use of poison gas in world will one and then there was a Cuban missile crisis, where we almost stumbled into a nuclear war and all this potential for misunderstanding is compounded exponentially in the world of AI. These essentials humans who were trying to read each other and make decisions. It's algorithms sort of loose in the wild interacting with one another the guardian actually had a great story about this called Franken algorithms, the deadly consequences of unpredictable code. And the article makes the point that the stock market flash crash of two thousand ten was actually caused by algorithms interacting with one another. You know, it's hard not to think that this could happen in the wild, so to speak is a scary thought and is made even scary it because it's just so much potential old around misunderstanding, and that's something Richard Dym Zeke is seriously concerned about when we talk about. Out sending a ship on mission. Policymakers bland, large understand what that means and how others will perceive it if the ship comes into their waters, whereas when we start talking about artificial intelligence policymakers, if they're five people in a room may readily envision five different things, we need to people making decisions to understand both the situations that dealing with, and we'll see how the tools they using actually work. And that's not easy. When it comes to AI part of the issue is the so-called black box problem, currently, we understand the principles of how a neural network uses probabilities to reach a conclusion, but we concentrate the millions of micro decisions it makes along the way, this is a huge barrier to understanding weapon systems, powered by I wanted to know how the research is developing new military technology. Think about the black box problem. So I spent we all see protocol the former head of DARPA. The defense advanced research projects. Agency and healthy shed a story about how the black books problem plays out many years ago. Now, there was a wonderful paper from Stanford that showed a machine system that could label images. This was a girl blowing out the candles on her birthday cake, or a construction worker, doing something so fairly complex analysis of what was going on in this picture, and it would get one, right? And it would get ten right? And we'd get one hundred. Right. And then there was a picture that every human being would say, that's the baby holding an electric toothbrush. But the machine said, it's a small boy holding a baseball bat, and just look at it and you think what, what, what, what, what were you thinking and this, I think it's a great illustration of the black box nature of these learning systems because they've been trained on all this volume of data. But when you look inside to say, well, what went wrong, and they're, you know, you just see a bunch of nodes with weights from being trained, and so they're really opaque, Aussies example, is kind of cute. But think about it from the difference between a baby holding electric toothbrush, and a small boy holding a baseball bat, cool say be in Afghanistan. The difference between pool shepherd and militant. In other words, the difference between life and death and it's a bit daunting that we are becoming more reliant on something that we continue not to understand, fully don't you think of severely, and Henry Kissinger, she wrote a piece on this for the Atlantic called how the enlightenment and stuff for sure. Eddie heady and was Jay. Hugh that because we aren't able to interrogate the output algorithms, as we rely on the more and more classified, the world around us, we match you start to lose the ability to reason for ourselves. It's not inevitable, though that AI will always be opaque, the EU are actually working on this policy that decisions made by need to be explainable to people. They affect that may be a policy that's easier said than done, although the so-called, NextWave of AI is all about explainable AI, and it's actually a major initiative right now at Dopp his authentic again. Explainable AI has been part of starting an entire new field of inquiry in artificial intelligence to couple that kind of statistical power that machine learning systems have with systems that explain how they got the results that they got in order for us human users to be able to know when to trust those machine learning systems, and when not to trust him. What else he is describing would be a huge break. Through in understanding how neural networks make that decisions would allow us to harness the power of the technology much we'll safely and not just on the battlefield. When we come back, we look at how much of the technology, we take for granted. Everyday lives actually originated in the military. One of the things we're learning on sleep workers is just how valuable data is it allows companies and governments to make predictions about what we going to do next. And if it falls into the hands of people who won't to HAMAs that's even more dangerous. So if you're on public wifi or unencrypted internet anywhere, you'll passwords and credit card numbers are not safe. That's why I use express VPN, which secures an anonymous internet browsing with just one. Take is a service, several of my friends who live in China use to access band services, like g mail. What's happening to Graham? Protect your online activity today and find out how you can get three months free at express VPN dot com slash sleep workers. That's E. X. P. R. E. S S, VPN dot com slash sleep workers for three months, free with a one year package. Visit express VPN dot com slash leap workers to learn more. So Dafa the defense agency with an annual budget of three point five billion dollars. It's motto is to cost the javelin into the infinite spaces of the future. What you may not know is how much of the technology, we all use every day came. Right. Out of delta. I think about this, every time I use my smartphone because that's a beautiful seamless integration of a whole host of technologies that were sparked many, many years ago by DARPA. So the chip in your cell phone that talks to the cell tower is based on a materials, and electronics technology that was developed for communications and radar systems. The chip that knows when you've rotated your phone is Mems technology that had huge early support from DARPA, but also Syria, other intelligent agents are based on the artificial intelligence research that was done. But what feel this wave of incredible innovation at DARPA? Well, actually wall DARPA is a very American concept in nineteen fifty seven the Soviet Union put the first start official satellite on orbit. That was Sputnik? There was a lot of excitement because human beings had never done that before. But of course, also. Quite a shock for the United States at the height of the Cold War, Sputnik was a reminder that in addition to working on the problems that you knew you had you also needed to have people who came to work every day to think about those kinds of technological surprises. And so DARPA was started as a reaction to that technological surprise, of Sputnik, its mission for sixty years has been to create those kinds of technological surprises and its history is one in which it's accomplished that mission DARPA is known as the place that made the early stages of each revolution and artificial intelligence. And of course, must memorably for starting the Arpanet, and riding the protocols that became the internet that we have today. Think about that. The technology that forms, the architecture of daily lives in the twenty first century, the intimate was created by defense agency, whose mission was to out think the Soviet Union. Yeon and in some sense, all of the technologies, we've looked at so far in sleep. Walkers on the outgrowth of Dopas work, what really naval, this was Dopp decision to allow that technology into the US private sector and to let entre preneurs build on top of it. Absolutely. As vital was the were the companies and the entrepreneurs and the investors who saw that you could turn those, those raw research results into the seamless beautiful product that we've now we all live with all the time carrots. Amazing to think just how much did it valley really stands on the shoulders of Donka. But even outside what we think of as the tech world as penalty examples of ministry technology living with us, for example, microwaves, which were next dental biproduct of radio technology, and then as good old roomba which was originally developed some minesweeping technology and is still a minesweeping technology in my house. Yeah. You know, there's this concept of dual use technology which we've talked about a few times, it's the idea that technology developed for the military can have civilian applications and vice versa. We talked about this with blink identity and facial recognition. Do you remember last year? The project maven. Walkout google. Right. So that was a project for the Pentagon over three thousand employees protests that they didn't want to develop that technology, so Google pulled the plug on the project. The problem is, though, that you can say you're developing AI an target recognition for the ministry will you can say developing AI to recognize what's happening in images. But it's the same technology. And once it gets into the wild anyone who wants can use it. And that's something AUSSIE spoke about about innovation traveling from dolphins the private sector. Yeah. And now, DARPA actually has this younger sibling called the defense innovation unit. D I, U X, whose job is actually, to invest an incubate technologies from the private sector that could be helpful for defense. So this is basically the bridge from Silicon Valley to DC, which is taking things from the consumer space and applying them for military. Use one of these technologies is cooled, halo that basically headphones that electrify you'll brain in order to stimulate. Growth. That's right. So I went to Connecticut test them out with full navy seal. John wilson. I was he'll for twelve years. I've served in Iraq multiple times, Afghanistan, I went to Mogadishu in South America, as you can imagine drug warfare, still a really big issue. So we have military units down there to combat a cartels. We were gone three hundred days out of the year training and then we were deployed for months on end. So that's what we lived breathed day in and day out. We weren't going home at night. These days Jones, back with his family, and he's especially interested in how new technology can help seals possum present. One size technology is the halo headset. We I invested in the headset uses an electric current to prime the brain for so called Nuro plasticity. In other words, the ability to learn and learn quickly for us, I've recognized when we do a pistol draw that movement is a repetitive movement that we've done thousands and thousands and. Thousands of times over and over again. And what this does is it primes the brain to learn those repetitive movements faster and have you genuine knows the difference, one hundred percent when I first came across this, I've got a bunch of seals together, we went out to the raise, we neuro primed, and we started shooting. So we've got the baseline did this for a month looked at our scores, and our scores were light years, better and light years. I mean, milliseconds right milliseconds on the battlefield equates life or death. I may be as far away from being a ministry pus and as anyone could be. But Jonas kindly agreed to lead me through a navy seal workout. So what we have here. It looks like a beats headset right with some strange. No deals. Yeah. Yeah. So what we have on the top has mentioned where these little nods. What those do there's you're going to send a current into the cortex frontal cortex into my into your brain. Is that safe? It's a great question. I'm going to a question it safe tons out, it is safe. It's been tested by DARPA and others. So I had to put it on and Joan agreed to help me use the headset to mirrow prime before putting me through my paces. All right. Let's let's crank it up. See so aids probably good. I don't know if you could feel a difference there, but we got twenty minutes in newer priming Phillies pinching my head a bit. Yeah. It's not it's not a comfortable feeling. Yeah. Imagine. But it's worth it, right? Like what is that uncomfortable sensation? It was happening. So that's electrcity. So it's, it's going into your brain right now. And it's getting your brain into a state of neuro -plicitly, hyper, learn in essentially is what that's state allows you to do, just allows you to learn faster and learn more information off to a warm up, which was in fact, a lot more intense than my normal workout to three. Komo drive up. Hold. Right. So with. Yes, still the warm up. It was time to take the headset off and stop the real thing. Oh, so I thought. Twenty wrecks on. Hope gone. Hellwig like nothing. Sure why do you off Joan? Thankfully, the workout came to an end and without any injury, though, to be honest. I couldn't tell if the neuro priming had worked for me, because halo and Hans is the brain's ability to learn studies show best results when it's used over time. In other words, if I will the headset before every workout, I might start to notice the difference in how quickly I performed. But somehow, I trusted Joan talking about the draw time phase weapons. So the battlefields Afganistan Iraq, Syria. It's my happy place. Yeah. Understand that it's my happy place because I'm around people that I know do anything for me that love knee, and I love them for Joan being on the battlefield wasn't the hottest pot leaving. It was transition and is not an easy thing. It's the hardest thing I've ever done when we transition we do it by ourselves. We're trying to solve a complex problem which we've loved to do normally when that takes place, you have your team around you and you're going to figure it out because, you know, you'll never let the person the left and right. Have you down when you tried to do this by yourself? You have nobody talked to when it starts getting hard. And you go dark because what we call us who we go into our shell, we kind of ostracize ourselves from society. And that's when bad stuff starts happening. John recalls, a recent narrow escape for one of his seal comrades. He was team six guy and ended up going through divorce. He had a newborn that he had to stay home and take care of. So he went to a really dark place. He just calm in unbeknownst to me, just put us on the bed. And he was sitting in the car with pistol. I didn't know that. I'm just picked up the phone and asked him how he was doing. And he said in is doing okay. But it needs some help. I said, we got your brother. That's all I said, and now is enough for him to put that gun away go back inside and take a little guy, just me saying, we got you. That cover Audrey saved Jones, friends life, but returning veterans need something more than community. They need purpose a mission, and that can be hard to find in civilian life. You don't know you're fit, you don't know your role in the family in their tribe. You know, know, your role in society, and you're just trying to get by to put food on the table. And there's there's a void there now. And according to Joan, that's why halo comes in just because we're seals doesn't mean we all want to end up doing security work. There's a lot of people that wanted to maybe go into finance or be a lawyer, halo allows us to succeed in exceleron at that process. So if it's people wanted to go back to school, putting a hill headset on before you study people, maybe wanted to get a job that requires multiple languages. You can throw on the halo and pick up those language at exhilarated pace. Do you think is more powerful as something to believe in, like if I put this headset on like she's my goals would he is more powerful is a technological solution? Or is it somewhere in between? Those two things I think it's probably both. Right. So our strength and conditioning coach this, you'll teams he had a bottle. He is what he wrote on it which stood for placebo effect, and it was just water. But guys come over him saying they're heard in. He would spray a little bit of this water on them. And they would every single time would walk like, oh, I feel better. Thanks coach. My point is the research supports that this actually works, but who gives a shit, even if it didn't, because people are going to believe in themselves. And that's that's ninety percent of the battle mind pin, it takes headset to get there, then great. But we know that this headset works. It's going to help accelerate you, you in that goal. We've talked about deal use in terms of military technology that enters the civilian world and vice, versa, and halo is just that a consumer product that is also used by the forces, but it has a much more profound to use. It. Can save soldiers lives twice the first time on the battlefield west shaving milliseconds off reaction time, coming the difference between life and death and the second time when they return home halo can help them develop new skills, and perhaps even more importantly, give them the hope they need to keep going. When we come back, we returned to Dhaka and how to ensure that we designed new miniature technologies with west case scenarios top of mind. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the community has made a huge difference as a thank you doing small business month. Dal is offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Cool. Eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisors today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. The tech advice and one of them, punish ship. One of the central contentions of sleep wokers is Fidel creations reflect us and knowing this, we need to be deliberate about how we tell them to behave. We took an episode three of this series, the watchman about automation bias, the very human habit of treating the output of computers, as infallible, even wanting knowing the inputs that we've given them and recognizing this automated central tenant of a tenure Dafa to argue that technology is not inevitable. There's the tendency to give the active role to the technology. It's what the I will do to us. I wanna keep bringing us back to the fact that these technologies are our creations. They're built by human beings. We have this enormous privilege that we get to work on the powerful technologies that can shape the progress of our societies that privilege comes with a responsibility to ask, what could possibly go wrong. What could possibly go wrong? It's a legitimate question. But there's also reason it's become a meme it's notoriously. Hot to answer. This is especially true in times of wool. When you technologies often rushed into action without being fully understood his pool sharia, again we'll war. One is a, a wonderful terrible example of what can happen when we see new technologies change warfare in ways that policymakers we're not prepared for the industrial revolution brought, not just in a locomotives. But also, you know cars tanks airplanes machine guns that then when we use to industrialize warfare in a totally new way that dramatically changed this scale and the speed of killing that was possible. The Gatling gun people still had to crank the gun, but then it automated the process of loading and firing bullets. We began this. Episode two about the new dangers posed by automated weapons. Well, the Gatling gun was actually one of the world's first and as pulled told us it's invention how to rip it affect that its inventor could not have seen the inventor Richard Gatling did this to save lives. He was looking at people coming back wounded and killed from the American civil war. He wanted to build a machine that could reduce the number of soldiers that were needed on the battlefield as a way to save lives. And that sounds like, you know, well meeting idea, and in practice, as the Gatling gun involved into the machine gun in World War, One, we saw a scale of killing that was just unprecedented in a whole a whole generation of European men wiped out on those battlefields. And so, I think it's an important cautionary tale for our ability to predict how this technology will be used. The name of this put cost sleep. Walkers is borrowed from a book cooled. The sleep walkers, how your went to war in nineteen fourteen written by the historian, Christopher Clarke, I'm one of the big questions. I've been asking is only at a moment. Like we were only eve of world will one when we haven't fully understood the implications of on new technology. I asked rich at Dan Zeke the full navy secretary about the parallels. There's an analogy from World War, One European military leaders developed mobilization plans to increase their own capabilities in the event of an attack. And they underestimated the degree to which that created rigidities and interactions. So that in the end the railroad timetables, generated a war that perhaps no one intended to be engaged in people think that they're driving the car on. And in reality, the horses of technology are frequently pulling us in directions that we don't anticipate and can't. Troll. So all we better place now to understand the implications of AI and new technology for global conflict than Europe was in nineteen fourteen. I don't believe our understanding avail I is greater than their understanding at that point, we will make these mistakes, too. I cannot estimate their significance or their frequency. What I'm rather confident we will lose control that we will make mistakes of that kind and cause unintended consequences. So to me, the interesting question is not can I predict their frequency? The interesting question is what can I do in advance if I recognize that too? One of them is well, represented by the DARPA safe chain project, that government agency is saying, if people edit jeans, but it turns out, they escape into the environment and proliferate. How do we? Program them to begin with, so that we can shut them off, when it's so difficult to predict how new technologies will be used and misused. It's hugely important that we build precautions while still being researched and developed is difficult that we have to do our best to until the future dangers of technology long before potential deployment on the battlefield. Thankfully, that philosophy governed offi proba 'cause work adop- what we developed was the way of grappling with the ethical implications of these technologies. It started by being open with ourselves, not just about our hopes for the technology. But also our fears and looking hitch other in the eye and saying, here's what we think, really is possible. But also, here's what could really go wrong whether any specific programs that you're tempted by as a technologist. But in the end you had to kill because they didn't meet your ethical standards. I don't really have anything to say about that. The answer is yes. But I can't give you an example, because it was classified. Karen, we've talked about the design phase and thinking from our own woods about making me weapons systems safe, but it doesn't always work out that way. Yeah, the genie does have a habit of getting out of the bottle. We've talked about dual use before, even seemingly benign technologies can be hugely destructive. The one that blows my mind is a story of Arthur Galveston, who was a plant biologist who discovered while he was a graduate student. This compound that helps soybeans flower faster. He also learned that if this compound were applied in excess that it would cause the plant to shed its leaves, and when Galveston discovered this defoliant effect. That's what was abused by biological warfare. Scientists who would then go on to develop Agent Orange. I just go back from a trip to Vietnam, actually where the effects of Agent Orange is still being felt is actually a gene talks in which causes deformities through generation. So that is a truly horrific one Kara and it makes us think it wasn't those chemists. Who are releasing Agent Orange the Vietnam, it was the US ministry. So the idea of us knew creates the technology gets to control what happens to it is simply not the case. And so we need to move forward with the assumption that AI weapons will leave the laboratory and exist in the world. And the central question is how helpful is it to have a human in the loop? Well, according to Richard Dan's ag-, humans, all of increasing the limited utility. I think there, there are circumstances where human control is useful. But I don't think that's the most useful approach the reason for that is because the power is in the machine, so many decisions that we care about or made it extraordinarily high speed. And there just isn't time for the humans to assimilate them, and make correct judgments even the president declaring or non nuclear war responding might have fifteen minutes to make a judgment. In other words, the whole idea of a human in the loop, making the final cool is something of an illusion at the very least it relies on us making wise decisions at lightning speed and under pressure. And there's another problem all of the information people like the president us to make decisions has already been filtered through several computer systems. So when the president reviews information to make tactical choice he'll she is already relying on automation is extraordinarily dependent on what the machines were telling him, the what the sensors are interpreted to them, what the algorithm, say the trajectories of missiles that have been launched. So realistically, he's on the cart being pulled by the horses of these technologies home. If that's true for the president think what it's like for the person who's a sergeant in the field. Manning patriot missile battalion. And it shows incoming missiles. He has seconds or best minutes to respond and has to make decisions. We know how fallible we are as decision makers, and we know how dependent we already are on computer systems to guide decisions. So what can we do to prevent yourself from stumbling into a conflict that no one wants by think we need to recognize that science is now diffused around the globe. And we need a common kind of understanding about how to reduce these risks and then we need some joint planning for the contingency that these do escape, what do we do with a newly engineered genetic system gets out there into the wild. Well, let's not just a problem for the Chinese, if it happens to happen in China technology spreads against modified copied, and hacked, and once something's out of the lab is anyone's guess as to what happens and countries off thirty trying to establish STAN. AI, but as pull Shari argues, creating global framework governing AI in wolf fat is a tool odor, severe heart area to think about how do we mitigate that risk because countries are not going to talk about the things that they're doing in cyberspace and the financial sector they've installed things like circuit breakers that would take stocks off line if the price moves to quickly, there's no referee to call timeout in warfare. So if we're going to manage those risks in the military space, those have to be circuit breakers, if you will that people build into our own weapons systems, limits on them ways to interject human control to maintain control. If things began to move, an unexpected ways, and it's worth, acknowledging really upfront that there's a tradeoff there that every time that a military puts guardrails on a weapon system, or inserts of human in the loop as a check, that's potentially slower. Going down the effectiveness of their weapon. And there's a risk that they're going to be afraid that an adversary might not do that and might get an edge on them. And that dynamic is really the crux of the problem here. It's hard to get to a place where countries trust each other enough to engage in mutual restraint, but we may not have a choice of until now on defense policy has been based on the assumption of technical superiority and south, y'all us, we can no longer rely on that you have a model that is based on owning all the technology and knowing that no one else can have access to it for two or three decades. And today, those assumptions simply don't hold. We are not the only people who can Enervate right now, the history of new technology and Wolfe's is frankly disturbing when we create new weapons, we tend to use them, we've talked about the atomic bomb in Japan and about poisonous gas in world will one and even about the Gatling gun one of the world's first automated weapons designed to reduce the number of competence required to wage war it decimated. An entire generation in Europe. We haven't yet seen what happens when a weapon system. Begins interact with one another. But chances are we will in our lifetime. So the temptation in all of this can be to desperately tried to hit pools on new technology. But off, y'all use that will be the wrong approach. Historically, we are drawn forward by the enormous potential that these technologies can enhance our lives. And at the same time, we're repelled by the consequences that we understand could be fundamentally wrong. I think that's the tension, but in aggregate and over time I do think that technology has lifted us up and has advanced us. You know, when you play the parlor game of asking your friends, what period in history, they would rather live in, I might want to visit, but I there's no other time in history, I wanna live in, and I think the future is going to be fraught with problems and is still going to be a better place than the one that we're in. It's true that technology has made so many parts of our lives easier healthier and safer. And is also true that the technology we create has the potential to be ever more destructive, we've talked about deal use in this episode. And as a matter of fact, many of programs have found their way into revolutionizing medicine in the next episode. We look at some of the incredible applications of AI in the world of healthcare from purity predicting time of death to decoding the human genome. I must Voloshin next time. Sleepwalk is a production of iheart, radio and unusual. Productions for the latest news live interviews, and behind the scenes footage. Find us on Instagram at sleepworks podcast all sleep because podcasts don't come. Sleep wokers is hosted by me, Voloshin, and co hosted by me care price would produced by Julian weta with help from yucca penzo, and Taylor coin mixing, by trista, McNeil, and Julian Wella, Australia is Matthew riddle recruiting assistance. There's episode from Chris Hamrick and bef ELD sleep woke is executive produced by me, also lotion, and Monge had to get the more podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or whatever you listen to favorite shows. This month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven by Dell. The tech advice and one one partnership.
The NFL's Divisional Round Drama
"And that'll do it. The Green Bay packers advanced to the NFC championship game. Who the twenty eight to twenty three away? Victory over the Seattle Seahawks feddie falling from the sky. It starts to snow. The divisional around is in the books and the San Francisco. Forty niners and Green Bay. Packers will be meeting in the NFC championship for what feels like the hundred time. How did the packers standoff seahawks comeback? It can they put up a better fight against San Francisco this time around then. The old school all Tennessee. Titans upset the new school Baltimore Ravens whether ground impound formula work against the chiefs team that just put up fifty one points. It's Times it's Monday January thirteenth this is espn daily presented by indeed Nina I'm sorry for your loss. Bill Barnwell is a senior writer for ESPN and the host of the bill. Barnwell show I am a fan. Dan of the Seattle Seahawks Bill. I'm actually okay. Considering Seattle spotted Green Bay eighteen points in the first half by the time and they got cooking. I was already mentally prepared for the loss. My emotions were in check. That said I was not entirely prepared word for how the game ended. So let's start here with two minutes and forty one seconds left the seahawks at that point. We're down one score decided to a punt on fourth and eleven. There's a see are going to put it in the hands of their defense to hold one more time and punted away. Here's Michael Dixon on packers dropping. Back they don't believe it's going to be a pot. They have their defense out there but it is Dixon Pixel now one hand. That's not entirely rational. Given the distance the fact that they had all of their timeouts as well as a two minute warning. But I didn't like the decision because unlike P Carroll I do not trust that defense which had let Aaron Rodgers do pretty much whatever he wanted on third down all game. What did you think of decision I think once Russell Wilson took a sack on third down and made it fourth and eleven I feel pretty confident? P Carroll didn't even consider trying to convert on fourth down just based on the decisions he's made in recent years as Seahawks head coach being the seahawks didn't even rush off the field to try and conserve time before the punt hawks plan was to stop the packers and got the ball back for one final possession to win the game now of course you might argue that they did stop the packers after a perfect. Throw from Rogers to Davante Adams to convert the first third down of the final possession these hawks blitz. It's on third and nine at the two minute warning. And they forced a pass underneath too conspicuously former seahawks tight end Jimmy Graham who stumble authored and was given a first down on the field. Roger steps throws over the middle to me Graham makes the catch and he's going to have a first down at the thirty five yard align made the tackle but I think they got the spot just across the line to make he got hit is under review. And if you follow follow anybody who ever change their avatar during the season tweet picture of BB. Yoda and the Hawks in uniform. Like nobody else in this podcast. You probably saw a screen shot after to the game of Graham falling down a full yard short sticks and I don't think there was a realistic way. The risks could have overturned the spot. There was no way to link the various videos and various cameras. And get a good sense of where the ball was when Graham felt if you were trying to overturn the initial national decision which they were working off of the baseline of clear evidence to overturn the call. I don't think there was enough to change the vision. The well given the seahawks very likely got away with a fumble all on their opening possession which was not overturned it seemed like the officials had a very distinct idea of what qualified as clear. Proof Um I feel attacked right now. But that's okay. I'm fine sliven regardless of how you feel about the spot I imagined you can guess how I feel it. It did ice the game. The backs are in the NFC championship where they'll play the San Francisco Forty niners. Who will talk about later in San Francisco in a rematch of the two thousand thirteen championship game? which the Niners then held by Colin Kaepernick a quarterback one but more recently bill? These teams played in November and and San Francisco absolutely obliterated Green Bay. Is there any reason to think it'll be different this time. I think there is but I don't think what we soften the packers on Sunday. Night is a good formula to beat San Francisco. The seahawks were able to repeatedly explained the packers guards and pass protection which is exactly how. The chargers beat them in Lambo earlier this year. The forty niners worthy third best team in the NFL on third downs on defense this year so so carrying on Rogers to pick up most of his third and longs is really dangerous. Game to play against defense the packers went down early. The first time these two teams played they took they run and gave out of the contest they had no answer for the forty niners Pasha if they can stay in the game maybe excellent performance from Rodgers can put them over the top. All right. Let's move on to the other game on Sunday where there was also a massive comeback effort. But this one worked out in fact not only worked out. It turned turned into a blowout the other way bill at one point in the early game the chiefs were losing to the Texans Twenty four to zero. How did the score in this game ended up being fifty one to thirty one? We'll mean A. I don't know if you saw there was a fake punt twenty four to seven Houston eight thirty three to go second quarter. That's take the right side of the first down. Great play dirty dancing people to the next place stopping the fake punt once there was a fake punt it was foretold beaches. Were going to come back and score forty four consecutive points. I mean it was. It was a combination of things realistically. I think once the Texans went up twenty four nothing. They handed the chiefs three short fields. Get Back in the game scored twenty one points the strives that got them right back into the game and then they were just way better on offense. And the Texans didn't have answers they spent this entire game pretty much in man coverage and even when they saw Travis Kelsey whipping Lonnie Johnson. and Andy Reid and Erik Gandini were able to get the ball to the other receivers. When Chelsea was either on the sidelines? Or getting double or triple teamed. There was just no answer and Patrick. Mahomes was able to find an open receiver time after time after time and realistically even when they were going down. Twenty for nothing. The Texans weren't meeting the chiefs. The chiefs were beating the chiefs. They dropped a ton of passes on their first three drives wants. The chiefs started catching the ball. It became pretty clear that the Texans strategy simply was not affected. Well after the game a lot of Houston fans. Were calling for Texans head coach. Bill O'Brien's head. They were especially infuriated by a decision he made win. Houston was up by twenty one points to kick a thirty eight yard field goal on fourth in short instead of going for it and then in that. Same quarter What you alluded to earlier the failed fake punt which turned the ball over to Kansas City? Do you think O'Brien deserves serves the level of criticism. He's getting those decisions. Yes and no I think in terms of the first decision fourth in short that is a clear obvious analytics friendly game flow friendly. Your offense friendly everything would seem to point to going for it on fourth and one and I think it was very three upsetting or disconcerting. If you're a texans fan to hear after the game that even though he called a timeout bill. O'Brien decided to kick a field goal in that situation because he didn't have a play he likes. I this is a guy who was supposed to be an offensive guru who has invested draft pick after traffic into star players on the offense and and he wasn't confident enough. Did he find play. That would gain him one yard with some of the most talented players and football. I have to admit that is a little troubling now with the fake Punt Texans are facing fourth and four. They saw a look they liked and honestly was a pretty good opportunity. Justin read the ball carrier earlier. Had to break an ankle tackle and he would've picked up the first down I it just. They didn't executed flawlessly. And I think it was a reasonable idea. I don't think it has anything to do with the prior decision once you that field goal on fourth and short it's cost. I don't think O'Brien was calling perfect punk is he regretted his prior choice. I think he thought his first choice was good and I think he thought the fake punt choice was good as well. I don't think the two are as related as they might say all right well after the break. Let's talk about how the titans pulled off the upset of the weekend. New Year new new budgets every small business has unique needs when you partner with a Dell Small Business Technology advisor you get real time tailored advice. He'll even give you a free audit on your servers in storage devices to develop a custom solution to help improve your company's productivity plus right now upgrade to windows ten and get up to forty five percent off off select business computers with Intel core processors to speak with Adele adviser call eight seven seven by Dell. That's eight seven seven by Dell Riot Tanna Hill has led the titans. It's to a victory that is leading them for the first time in seventeen years to the American Football Conference Championship. Game the Tennessee a C. Titans bill the biggest upset of the weekend. The one that I certainly did not see coming happened on Saturday night the Ravens came into the game. The Titans as nearly ten point favorites and got outscored. Twenty eight to twelve. Now this is one of the strangest interest box scores I've ever seen. The Titans are actually outgained by two hundred and thirty yards which is in most in playoff history. How did this happen? I mean you wouldn't recommend a team. Try to win the way. Tennessee did on Saturday but they had a plan and they executed it to absolute perfection. If I was going to write up a way for a team to beat the ravens this would have been the opposite way away but it's still worked. The titans forced three takeaways from a team. which hadn't done that since week? Five they stopped the ravens onto fourth and one attempts after the Baltimore. Gone Eight for eight on those same fourth-down tries during the regular season and for the second week in a row. Titans were great in the Red Zone on on the defensive side of the ball last week. The difference between Tennessee New England was at Tennessee scored in their two possessions. And the Patriots were held to one touchdown on three trips in the red zone. This week. Dean piece is defense. Held the Ravens to one touchdown in four trips the red zone which for the second best rates. It's on offense and football. That's pretty incredible to pull off and I mean this is the least exciting and sexy topic. When it comes to analysing who won and lost a football game? The titans dominated the field position battle in this game. They scored four touchdowns and three of them came on drives. That were twenty yards long. Thirty five yards long forty five yards long. They had one significant drive. And that was the product of a sixty six yard run by Derrick Henry on third and one and a hail in the gun motions Smith across the formation give. Henry breaks the tackle thirty Henry Forty Henry Fifty Henry Forty Curry thirty Henry Henry at the New York Bill. Derrick Henry was undeniably dominant. In this game. I think if you and me combined and then found twenty of our friends would still be able to tackle Derrick Henry. He racked up more for yards after contact than Ryan. Tannehill did passing okay so he was impressive. The titans offensive line which ranked fourth in football. Outsiders run blocking statistic over the season was impressive. But as you point out they didn't have to do a lot on offense because of the advantage they got from field position. Do you have confidence Vince. In them. Going forward this is very tricky because in a way the titans are breaking what we know about. NFL teams in their capabilities abilities in the red zone in the regular season once Ryan Tannehill took over as their starting quarterback Tennessee's touchdowns on just under eighty seven percent of their red zone trips to put that in context. If you're not someone who is searching the red zone numbers like me every week the second best red zone offense over that timeframe was Tampa Bay and they were closer to sixteenth than they were Tennessee. And I they weren't anywhere near this good before inserting Tannehill so even though Derrick Henry is incredible and the sort of person listen you would not want to tackle for large gobs of money in the red zone. It's not just Eric Henry. And there's no precedent for any team being being that good in the red zone for any extended length of time so you would typically figure. That wouldn't hold up into the postseason. But the titans a five five or touchdowns in the red zone during the playoffs even given those regular season numbers even given what they've done so far. I still think it's going to be extremely tough off to keep that up even on Saturday. The Titans Three touchdowns all came on third down including a third and twelve where China Smith made a miraculous catch which takes a snap pressure comes way ten throws the fade left side ball up and taunt is it in bounced gas touch stat doc. Titans tipped to itself play calling it the G. catch officially or the half cheek catch at this point bill. In hindsight it was amazing Missouri. It's tough to keep that up as a winning formula. But I do think the idea of running your offense around Derrick Henry can work especially given what they're going to face in the AFC championship game the chiefs ranked twenty ninth in rush defense. Hey during the regular season which is the football outsiders team efficiency stat. So it's hard we out of the question that Henry can continue to be the focal point Of Ineffective Tennessee offense. Would you try to tackle Derrick Henry for a million dollars. A million dollars is a lot of money but I I value my limbs and I value my health and I don't think that would be covered by health insurance. I think I'd be giving a large some of that money almost immediately after receiving halftime bill. The Ravens were trailing by eight points. And while Lamar Jackson obviously compiled a lot of yards in the second half I thought his performance paled off. Do you think there's any merit to the idea that the Baltimore offense just isn't built to play from behind. I mean any offense is gonNA struggle when they're forced to become one dimensional. And I do think especially by the time the fourth quarter came around and you could see the ravens were frustrated but I think this is a very different game if the ravens don't get stuff goes forth in one place or struggle in the red zone and I think history tells us that's typically an exception as opposed to the rule for this offense. The offense makes it so that they really don't ever have to play from really far behind and it takes nearly flawless work in the Red Zone and on for the short defense to force the Ravens to be behind by ten fourteen eighteen points and on top of that to be honest honest with you mean. I don't think Lamar Jackson played poorly passer. I mean he didn't miss open receivers very frequently. He wasn't trapped in the pocket. The Ravens dropped at least six passes during the game including one which led to the early interception but Jackson ran for one hundred forty three yards and twenty carries in this game. He was effective active as runner. So I think it was more just those fourth and short plays and those red zone plays and anything else. I don't think this is something that revealed that the Ravens have a flawed offensive philosophy. You by any means. Meanwhile on the other coast the Minnesota Vikings did not pull off the same upset as their fellow succeed in the east. In in fact bill they got smoked. Let's start with Kirk cousins. Because I imagine this game will perhaps unfairly become a referendum on him minutes infamous eighty four million dollar contract. Would you pin the loss more on his performance or simply Minnesota running into a terrifying and now healthy forty niners defense poor kirk cousins is one week where he gets to be in the sun and then right back to the same story week later I honestly. I don't think this had almost anything to do with kirk cousins. The forty niners got a handful of their starters back on defense and perhaps not surprisingly we saw the same dominant defense from the first half of the season. Show up again. The Vikings ran the ball ten times for twenty one yards. Cousins was pressured a newly forty six six percent of his dropbox. He was sacked five times in twenty seven tries acid stepping around the man inside the thirty yard line. You can blame cousins for missing that one out distefano digs at the end of the first half because it might have set them up for a touchdown but but I think given what we saw after halftime and how dominant that niners pass rush was. I don't think it really makes it that much of a difference. And if you WANNA make the case that a quarterback getting paid as much as cousins should be able to transcend dominant pass rush and a totally missing running game two receivers who were missing during practice this week and offensive line. That was struggling but he should be able to overcome all of that and make a ton of big plays go ahead but I'm just saying I don't think anybody in the. NFL was going to look good in that situation. Relation especially given how dominant the niners were on defense during the second half of that game. We'll while we're doing over reaction Monday here at ESPN daily Bill. It was reported that the Cleveland browns hired the Vikings Offensive Coordinator Kevin Stansky as their new head coach. So the Vikings offense obviously really did not look great as you just spelled out. What should browns fans take away from this? I don't think much unless they have to face nick. Bosa D Ford deforest buckner Richard Sherman and the rest of the defense every single week. I think you can maybe nitpick the game plan a bit but I don't think anyone was going to succeed against this defense on this day it was was just a a nightmare for matchup so I know it's easy to look at the most recent game especially given that Robert Sawyer was a a candidate for this Head coaching job in Cleveland. And Hey why do we pick the guy who really struggled in the most recent game as opposed to the guy who You know look dominant on the other side of the field. But I just I don't think one game and most recent game is a great way to do anything. Well on the other side of the field. Jimmy Garoppolo the quarterback did not have as easy as Ryan Tannehill. He'll only three for eighty eight yards but he also through fewer than twenty passes himself. Do you think that's a formula that can work in a championship. If you can get the opposing offense to go to fourteen on third and fourth down you can make just about any offensive. Formerly you want work. It's pretty much going to succeed. I thought Garoppolo. It wasn't but he was really bad. During this game he was really inconsistent. I mean he was nearly perfect on that first touchdown drive in the opening quarter but the vikings really gave him trouble. They took away the middle of the field. George Hill really didn't have a big role in this game and the easy completions that were there early. It didn't really show up as much as the game went on and I think more than anything it really didn't feel like cow. Shanahan trusted Garoppolo after the interception. Maybe it was just. He was trying to approved to Falcons fans that he could run the ball with a lead in the postseason but after Garoppolo picked thirty of the niners thirty six subsequent plays on offense where runs honestly. I don't think there's really all that much of a difference between cousins and Garoppolo. Thanks so much bill. Thanks for coming up it's college. Football's big night. The wherever the fans been this season ooh ESPN daily covering the greatest sports stories in history. We know what makes the Dream Team. And when you're hiring for your business You need the recruits. That will become champions. That's why you need indeed for Your Business indeed will help you find the best playmakers for your business with tools like online skills tests us that help candidates show the tire for you. Post your next job at indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily and try skills tests for free. That's indeed indeed dot com slash. ESPN daily terms conditions exclusion supply. Here's another story. I want you to know and tonight. LSU and Clemson are meeting in the College Football National Championship in New Orleans and the superdome Bush early packed but while college football fans will probably probably show up in droves for this game that hasn't been the case during the regular season according to a fascinating piece in sports illustrated Charlotte Wilder attendance across the FBI fell by nearly eight percent from two thousand fourteen through twenty eighteen and recently hit a low not seen since nineteen ninety-six whether the latest numbers aren't out yet yet pictures of half empty student sections have popped up all over the Internet this year and it's not just bad teams that are drawing crowds clemson which has been perfect only sold out three games this season and they didn't sell out a single game on their way to the championship last year. Now that doesn't mean college football itself it's becoming less popular. TV ratings are actually up and pulls found that still America's favorite sport after the NFL but that passion isn't putting butts in seats and no one's exactly sure why that is some folks like northwestern. Coach Pat Fitzgerald. Seem to think. Think it's about Belania culture. These things I think phones I think technology has been the decline in attendance number one. I think watching young young people today live like this coach. Fitzgerald was pantomime looking down on his phone. There you know as teens do now while it sounds a a little like he's telling fans to get off his proverbial lawn. There's an element of truth. Twenty sending technology has diverted. Everyone's attention and it's easier than ever to watch football all from home but in our reporting wilder found that blaming the youths wild wildly popular. These days is an over-simplification for one on these Games aren't free and given that the cost of attending college has risen about forty percent over the last ten years it makes sense that students would be more tight-fisted with their money on top of that for many schools. The product itself hasn't gotten more exciting as prices have gone up. Sports illustrated notes in their story that the average margin in a victory for top. FBI hit seventeen point five four this year more than three points higher than it was just five seasons ago. Now that obviously hasn't stopped. Stop people from watching the games or being excited about these teams. It probably doesn't help when there's hesitation caused by the rising costs so the next time you. Here's someone blaming the kids for killing off yet. Another saying consider that the reasons are probably more complicated and blame them for something else. Like adult coloring books Times and this has been E._S._P._N.. Daily I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Taco Bell Already Has a Wedding Chapel; Now its Opening a Taco Hotel
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business wars daily. Happy Friday, everyone. Now, this stunt has me wondering about the links to which companies will go to build their brands Taco Bell, which sells us off taco for a dollar. Nineteen is launching a hotel. Yes, you heard me correctly, folks, the fast food chain will open pop-up, taco themed hotel in Palm Springs, California, this summer. It'll be called what else the bell stay at the boutique lodging and you'll not only nibble on the namesake dish, but get taco themed cocktails presumably hot and spicy poolside, or even in the pool where you'll be able to float on a hot sauce. Raft. There will be a gift shop, of course, but also a hair salon, offering taco themed braids and nail art. The bell will open for five days, beginning August night. It'll start accepting reservations. The third week of June Newsweek reports that this is hardly the. First time that Taco Bell is thought outside of its fast food box, among other things it hosts weddings. Yes, weddings at a Taco Bell Cantina in Las Vegas. So what gives it's all about standing out outlandish stunts, like the hotel, create buzz and visitors who are likely to post photos, and social media become brand ambassadors for the multibillion dollar franchise operation brand Bassedas. We might add, who pay for the privilege, Instagram and other social media platforms obviously provide opportunities for brand marketers. But the overwhelming volume of content flashing bias, every day. Also ups, the Antion creativity. It takes more and more extreme tactics to stand out witness, for instance, Domino's, which paid to fix some cities, potholes and arby's, which offered customers a Hawaiian vacation for six dollars or Burger King, one of taco bells biggest competitors which trolled McDonald's by giving away one dollar walkers to customers who ordered their Burger King meal. While at McDonalds, although stunts got a lot of attention and created a creative vibe for their respective fast food chains chains, which, by the way, are all about cooking the exact same meals served in precisely the same manner in every single restaurant across America Taco Bell hotel. Sure. It's fun. But it's also a symbol of the fine tricky line that fast food titans must walk between creativity and corporate cookie cutter consists. From wondering this business wars dialing this week's episodes, written edited and produced by Elaine edited, and produced by important are executive producers, marshal Louis created by or non Lopez, or wondering, I'm David Brown, and we'll see next. Business wars daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business month celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free. External hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
Consumers Can Sue Apple Over App Prices, Supreme Court Says
"Business. Daily is brought to you by Dell this month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y DA L L for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this is business wars daily. Happy monday. Everyone hope your week is off to a great start. In case you happen to miss the news last week. The supreme court ruled that consumers have the right to sue apple on anti-trust grounds. A suit could determine whether or not the company is operating like a monopoly. The suiting question was filed way. Back in twenty eleven. It's taken this long to get to the supreme court. It centers on Apple's app store, the digital holding pen for any and all apps. That run on apple mobile devices, apple charges, developers thirty percent sales feed of put their apps on the platform plaintiffs in the case, which is called apple versus pepper accused apple of passing that cost on to consumers. Forcing prices up unfairly, why unfair you might ask. Well, the plaintiff say it's unjust because the only place one can purchase apps. For apple devices is on the app store. That structure. They say gives apple monopoly power, essentially to charge, consumers whatever they want. Now, the question of whether apple is or isn't a monopoly has not come close to being decided all that was determined last week. Was that by vote of five to four? The supreme court said, plaintiffs can proceed with their anti-trust case in district court for years, apple have been trying to get the case thrown out the company has argued that consumers don't have standing to sue apple directly for technical reasons, apple claim that its actual customer is the developer not you or I that was the argument that the supreme court threw out. So what's next will not much for you and me for the time, being at least you can expect any apps, you purchase from the apple store to cost whatever they cost before, but you might also think about this see apps that run on Google play can be purchased in more than one place. That means the market for Android apps is not. A monopoly for some people that knowledge, alone may be enough to strengthen brand loyalty or create brand converts. From wondering this is business daily. We'd love to get to know your little bit better. Help agai out won't you go to wondering dot com slash survey. An answer a couple of questions. That's one dot com slash survey. Survey results help us respond to me. Thanks bunch. I baby Brown and we'll be back with you tomorrow. Businessworld daily is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business, your impact on the communities made a huge difference as thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free. External hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dell.
Google Glass Returns--with New, Clearer Vision
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wonder I'm David Brown. And this is business wars daily on this Thursday may thirtieth. Hey, remember, Google glass back in twenty thirteen. Google announced it had created a revolutionary product and augmented reality headset aware of computer with the power to change the world. Alphabet Google's parent company launched Google glass with all the fanfare, one would expect of a company racing into the future time magazine called the soon to be released glass. One of the best innovations of the year, and then the glass, shattered glasses were expensive and buggy and they solved a problem how to wear a computer on your face that no one had. Furthermore glass, featured a tiny video camera, right there in the lens prompting privacy concerns, the glass quickly became the object of ridicule. It was parodied on the Simpsons and the daily show after about two years. The product was withdrawn from the. Market. Well now Google's giving it a go again last week. The company relaunched Google glass with a few key changes at nine hundred ninety nine dollars. It's quite a bit cheaper than it was. Even so the company isn't trying to sell them to consumers these will be marketed only to business and professional users from warehouse workers to surgeons, the headset, which has a screen in one lens. That's where see lists instructions and watch training videos, all while keeping their hands free back when Google first launched glass, it wasn't just a brand new product. It was a brand new product category. No more goo glass will go up against a significant rival. You may have heard of Microsoft Microsoft's hollow hololens to has screens on both lenses and offers more features. But Google glass comes in a lot cheaper. A pair of Microsoft's smart glasses will set you back more than three thousand dollars. Google sees more clearly now how not to over hype. New product is. Relaunching glass more quietly than it did in twenty thirteen question is half a decade later is the market now ready for smart glasses. Well, maybe, so at least in the operating room and on the factory floor. From wondering this is business wars daily. Hey, if you like our show, would you see to it that you share it with a friend Senate tax, the tweet an Email? How about an old fashioned phone call? Thanks so much for listening. I'm David Brown and we'll see you tomorrow. Business worse. Daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business month celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free external hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
Self-Driving Buses Hit the Streets
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown. And this is business daily on this Thursday may twenty third. Wow. It's Thursday already that was quick. We've heard a lot about self driving cars, but cities already struggling with congestion, a worried that traffic will get even worse when Thomas cars at the road. So they're stepping up research on Thomas. Public transit, how as you feel about getting on a bus that no one is driving. That's right. Tournaments buses are about to be a real thing cities from providence. Rhode Island to Dallas Texas are already testing self-driving vans and minibuses providence launched its five passenger little Rhody last week. It's running a free five mile route through town to learn how pedestrians drivers and passengers will interact with the laser directed bus passengers must wear seatbelts at all times, of course, and there's a human driver on board just in case owed its top speed. Twenty five miles per hour may mobility, the company that assembled little Rhody. Also runs self driving shuttle services into Troy and Columbus, Ohio. According to the Boston Globe bus, manufacturer new flyer is taking a different tack, one of the largest bus makers in North America new flyer is partnering with AI for robotics research to develop full size autonomous buses. It plans to launch them in twenty twenty although full deployment will be some years away as it preps vehicles. It's also readying the streets, new flyer is developing roadway. Connectivity applications called vehicle to infrastructure technology. They'll be designed to help make self driving buses safe on city streets. That's important, both for obvious reasons. The transportation industry was rocked when an era Zona pedestrian was killed by a self driving Uber back in March of twenty eighteen but it's also critical for the perception of Thomas vehicles. A twenty eighteen surveys showed that about eighty percent of passengers remain to nervous about self driving vehicles to climb aboard. So as technologists race to put self driving buses on the road, marketers will also have to race forward to change the perception, that human drivers are more reliable than artificial. It's a route into the future that no one has driven before. From one day this is business wars daily. Would you hop on a self driving? Bus post on linked in or tweet us at business wars. Need love to hear from you? I'm David Brown will see. Tamar. Business worse. Daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business month celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free external hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
Graphic Design Startup Canva Hits $2.5 Billion Valuation
"Business wards daily is brought to you by Dell. Don't miss out on Dell small business month celebration. Get up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y de l l for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown. And this is business wars daily on this Tuesday may twenty eight. These days, practically every entrepreneur marketer, and even office manager needs to be a graphic designer as well. Instagram's wild growth alone has created an explosion of demand for visual, content and the skills to build it, our insatiable craving for all things visual has been a boon to Melanie Perkins. The Australian co-founder of Canada Canada is a web based design platform intended to feel intuitive for the average user if you haven't heard of canvas, yet, you probably will soon Perkins. Thirty two years old started the company from her mother's living room back in twenty twelve sensing a need in the market for an easier. More cohesive way for non designers to produce things like high school. Yearbooks, six years later that homegrown company has more than fifteen million users, designing everything from logos to social media posts, too. Resignations is just been valued at two and a half billion dollars. Double its previous valuation in mid may famed venture capitalist. Mary meeker chose Canada as the first investment from her new fund called bond can be received seventy million dollars in that round from meeker and partner investors the investment at that sky high valuation was notable. But arguably, it was even more notable coming from meeker who grew her fortune by helping to spot growth companies. We all know today companies like Dell Google Amazon, EBay and into it just a name few that she chose Canada as her first investment says a lot about the growing design space and about Canada itself can book is a broad platform encompassing design tools photography, and presentation software, it competes across the spectrum with several bigger names from adobe to shudder stock to Google, but one enormous company in particular should now sit up and take notice. We're talking about, you Microsoft. Perkins loves to gleefully chat, about the dreaded death by PowerPoint is a way to point out that Campbell offers competitive presumably, sexier presentation tools with the new funding Campbell plans to go after big customers, those enterprise businesses for whom PowerPoint has been standard for far too long. If you believe Perkins it remains to be seen whether this little Australian company can compete at the level of a Microsoft, but if it could outgrow Perkins mothers living room, this fast, all bets are off. I'm wondering this is business worse daily. If you like our show gives a five star rating in a review on apple podcasts, would you. We sure appreciate it. I'm David Brown will be back with you tomorrow. Business worse. Daily is brought to you by Dell. The clock is ticking on Dell small business month celebration. Enjoy up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus a free external hard drive with select computer purchases before it's too late. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven. B. U. Y. D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership, eight seven seven by Dow.
Simmering Victorias Secret, Third Love Conflict Reignites
"Business daily is brought to you by Dell this month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business. Technology advisor today. That's eight seven seven b u y DA L L for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown and this business wars daily on this Tuesday may fourteenth as listeners to this podcast may already know the lingerie company third love has been in a heated war with Victoria secret for some time third. Love boasts that it makes bras sized for well, just about everyone. And it says it's the antecedents of sexy. Victoria secret, the rival companies have been openly hostile last November, Victoria secret marketing chief Ed rock stirred controversy, when he told vogue magazine that the seven billion dollar company had no plans to cater to larger sized women. And that transgender models had no place in Victoria secret's annual runway show, and he jabbed at third love to saying. We're nobody's third love. We're there burst. Love we should note here that Razzaq later apologized for his remarks, however, rose comments angered third. CEO hijack in an open letter in the New York Times she wrote quoting here. We're done with pretending certain sizes don't exist or aren't important enough to serve and please stop insisting that inclusivity is a trend that simmering war just reignited women's wear daily reports that Victoria's Secret owner L brands has trademarked the phrase, I love for its personal care products body washes lotions that sort of thing the US patent and trademark office. However has so far denied the company's application to apply the phrase to launch array and other clothing, citing a small clothing companies existing trademark on the phrase, the new I love trademark is an obvious shot across third loves bow. It's also a sign that L brands which despite its recent declines is still a mammoth company is concerned about the San Francisco startup third. Love earned an estimated one hundred sixty million dollars in revenues twenty. Eighteen now that's miniscule compared to Victoria's Secret. More telling however is third loves valuation by investors of seven hundred fifty million dollars and the appointment to the third love board of investor. Lori Greeley who just happens to be Victoria's secrets former CEO L brands may consider its decision to trademarked the phrases shrewd. But some observers say otherwise in a blog post on the feminist site Jez Abell rider Hazel sills took a dig at the company saying that in its quest to remain relevant. Victoria secret is trying a new strategy extreme pettiness. Well, one thing is for sure whether the I love trademark works to boost the brand sales or not it's been worth a boatload of publicity for third love. From wondering this business wars daily. We luck falling on the ongoing rivalry between companies. So what do you tell us out of quick survey? One dot com slash survey. I'm David Brown back with you tomorrow. Businessworld daily is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business. Your impact on the communities made a huge difference. As thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free external hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business. Technology advisor today that's eight seven seven B U Y D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership eight seven seven by Dell.
Schick Razor Owner to Acquire Indy Shaver for $1.4 Billion
"Business daily is brought to you by Dell this month. Dell is thanking small businesses with up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business. Technology advisor today that's eight seven seven B, you ideal L for tech advice and one on one partnership. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this business wars daily on this Wednesday may fifteenth by now it's no surprise that. Big old conglomerates are worried about being upended by online upstarts which accounts for last week's news that the owner of Schick razors is spending almost one and a half billion dollars to acquire. Harry's razors a business that is only six years old Harry's cells razors for both men and women and other grooming products via subscription with less overhead than legacy brands. Harry's has been able to shrink prices, even as it offers sleekly designed products it also adopted the kind of personal relationship building marketing common to online brands these days. Now that shouldn't surprise you. Since before starting Harry's co founder Jeff raider helped launch glassmaker Worby Parker, which practically invented direct to consumer disruptors Harry's captured two percent of the three big. Million dollar razor marketing only five years, according to the market research firm Euromonitor now that might not sound like much, but it was enough to hurt chicks parent company edge will and Procter and gamble which owns razor giant Gillette. Their market shares. Sank like stones Harry's sword online startup dollarshaveclub posed an even bigger challenge than Harry's. Did the trouble for the old line packaged goods companies goes beyond the new upstart competitors? It's also that the whole shaving market is shrinking according to the online site, vox vox, blames that on the aging of the American population and says tongue in cheek when you get old you don't grow as much hair. So you don't shave as much and then you die well with razor sailed slowing Unilever, the giant consumer packaged goods company took action early three years ago. It's been a billion dollars to acquire Dollar Shave Club at the time analysts specula-. Late wrongly. It turns out that proctoring gamble might acquire Harry's. But it didn't. And now it's competitor Schick has Harry's in its grooming arsenal as FOX also points out a whole bunch of new razor rivals of jumped into the market right at the time when fewer of us care to get rid of our hair that makes for ferocious competition. Clearly Schick is taking advantage of Gillette. When Gillette is down buying Harry's. Now is just one more way to shave a few more points off Gillette's faltering lead. See what we did there shape? For wondering this business worse daily. You know, what we love it gives ratings and reviews on our podcast. So would you take a minute? And and do that it helps his findings. Thanks so much for listening. I'm David Brown will see it Amaro. Businessworld daily is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business. Your impact on the communities made a huge difference. As thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free external hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven by Dell to speak with a small business. Technology advisor today that's eight seven seven B U Y D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership eight seven seven by Dell.