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Carly Fiorina is the first woman CEO of a fortune top twenty company, she's also relentlessly optimistic leader who believes to solve problems we have to unlock everybody's potential. One woman is like a pebble dropped into a pond. The pebble may be very small, but the ripples go very far. That message echoes our beliefs that the Bush institute is at the heart of our women's initiative. Carli has also recently become a podcast or taking her brand of leadership to the internet airwaves with by example, a show featuring leaders from all walks of life. So let's talk leadership. I'm your host Andrew Kaufman in this is the strategic presented by the George W Bush institute. What happens when he crossed the forty third president late night, sketch, comedy and compelling conversation. This strategic has a podcast form from the word strategically which was appointed by us. The now in braced by the George W Bush administration we highlight the Americans feared of leadership and compassion through thought provoking conversations. And we're reminded that the most effective leaders are the ones who laughed. The Bush institute believes that developing leaders that are committed to solving problems as critical, and so does our guest Carly Fiorina who has a long history of leadership in both the for profit and not for profit realms. And I think it's also important to point out that she is a fellow optimist Carly, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me, we're also joined by the Bush institute's expert on all things leadership policy and so much more executive director, Holly cues Mitch great to be here. So Carly you lived in Africa in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine as your father took a sabbatical at the university of Ghana and acros to teach the New Guinean constitution to law students. Can you tell us about that time, and how it shaped your perception of democracy and has that perception changed through your lifetime? Well such a great question to start with. So the thing that I remember I I was a teenage girl fourteen fifteen and we landed at the airport in a cry. To a totally different world. We were the only white people, obviously. However, I remember sitting in this wonderful brave new world to me where everything was different and exotic and strange, and yet everyone was so welcoming, and so warm and once a week, my father would invite some of his law students to our home, and we would sit around the table, my father, my mother, myself, my sister, and brother and all these law students, and I would watch them talk about their new constitution. And they were these law students were so passionate about what they were doing what they were building. This was a country that had just overthrown a dictator. This was their first real experience with democracy. And so it was a palpably emotional and uplifting experience. That's what I remember. About it. I didn't spend all that much time thinking about our own democracy until I got much older. I just you know, we're a democracy. It was like the air we breathe through the water. We swam it. If we were fishes unlike something brand new for these Ghanaian laws dunes. So I didn't really think about Ariza until much later. But there are features of ours. That are quite unique in quite powerful. The fact that we're a Republic, actually, not a democracy. The fact that so much of our constitution is focused on preventing the concentration of power. The fact that in our country, we believe local problem solving is better problem-solving. The fact that individuals have in Illinois, -able writes that don't come from government. These are things that are unique about our Democratic Republic. So Carly you just mentioned that what you when you lived in Africa. You you are often one of the only white people in the room. You've also often been the only female in the room. What's your advice to people? Who find themselves in these kinds of scenarios, and how did you handle that? Well, in short, I would say I've learned over the years that in some ways if you're in that experience a lot it's more uncomfortable from the for the other people than sometimes it is few. I remember when I was running for the presidency and standing on a debate stage, and I used to get the question all the time from remorse. What does it feel like to be the only woman on the debate stage? And I said, I feels like the rest of my life. I actually think the guys are more nervous about how to deal with me than I am about how to deal with them. And that turned out to be true more seriously. However, what I would say is the advice. I give all the time is don't get a chip on your shoulder. And don't hide your light under a bushel. And what I mean by that is when you're the different one, whether it's because you're a person of a different color or your different gender. Whatever the case may be when you're the different one. There are people who will. Will tear you down and those kinds of people can give you a chip on your shoulder, which in the end hurts you not them. But there are also as many if not more people in my experience who will lift you up. And so go to the people who lift you up. Don't get a chip on your shoulder about the people who tear you down by the same token. Don't hide your light under a bushel. And by that what I mean is don't be different than you are to try and accommodate the fact that you're different from everybody else in the room be as good as you are as brave as you are as strong as you are let them figure out how to deal with you. Don't change yourself to deal with them, as you know, the Bush institute were committed to investing in women and girls and most recently we've brought nineteen women from Afghanistan. Egypt. Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia to the Bush institute to empower and equip them to become more effective leaders into advance economic opportunity and their communities and countries you spoke to these leaders tell us why. It's important that we empower women globally. Well, I want an amazing group of women. I was so uplifted by each of them in their stories. So let's talk about it at a macro level. And we'll talk about it at a micro level at a macro level. The data is unmistakable when you get women and girls more engaged everything gets better. So it's true. I mean, the data's inescapable illiteracy poverty conflict all those issues. Get better when women are engaged, and the reason is because women girls have half the brain power in the world. So we got a lot of problems. And the only way you solve problems is by applying human potential and brain power to those problems. If you have half of the brain power and the potential in the world sitting on the sidelines. You're not going to get as far as if you have one hundred percent of it engaged at a micro level. I'll tell you a story at the human. Level personal level. I was engaged with an organization called opportunity or national which is a microfinance lender. And you know, that microfinance is lending a very small amounts of money. The founder of microfinance a man named Mohammed Yunus began microfinance in Bangladesh. He wanted it to be sustainable, and he started by lending to men because that was the culture in Bangladesh, you lent to men, but what he figured out over time. As the men weren't always the best investors are the best credit risks. And over time. He learned he had to engage women at opportunity international ninety three percent of our clients were women not because we had a quote or to make the Moines women. But because we learned with experience that they frequently were the best investors. The best entrepreneurs they didn't invest just in themselves. They invested in their families and the communities around them women and girls make a difference for everyone. One women and men because something we've seen a lot through our work is is it always comes back to that principle that women invest back into their communities. When women are powerful the community is power. I think we have a common history in a way to with Dr Condoleeza Rice. Yes, who obviously is a is a strong force in the Bush administration. Also was connected to you. Yes. Kind of Lisa, and I form something called the one woman initiative where we focused funding on small grassroots organizations in majority Muslim countries, and we were looking to lift these organizations up to give women and opportunity for access to Justice access to economic opportunity and access to leadership training, and we called it the one woman initiative because we know that one woman can make an incredible difference in her community. In fact, the analogy that I used. Was one woman is like a pebble dropped into a pond. The pebble may be very small, but the ripples go very far. Let's go back to your lessons in leadership. You've talked about how it can be lonely at the top. What advice would you give to others for how to deal with that challenge? I often say that leadership is not about position and title, and it's not the fundamentals of leadership or not about the position of the title. You hold. It's what you do. With them. However leaders who do have position entitle for them frequently the buck stops with them the decision has to be made by them. Ultimately, when you have finished getting all the ideas and all the input, and you've collaborated with everyone who can help you make a wise and well-founded decision. Sometimes the final decision is up to you, certainly something President Bush knows so much about and at that point after you sifted and weighed all the evidence and all the input. You alone must decide. So I is to recognize that recognize that that comes with the territory the fact that as President Bush one said, he's the decider in chief that sometimes you're the decider in chief the second thing, I would say is recognize that no matter how you choose. Or what you decide you will be criticized. So no going into it that not everyone will agree with you. Not everyone will be happy with what you've done changes difficult. I think sometimes people expect when they make a tough decision. They hope for the agreement and the accolades in what they get instead is the criticism, and they get deflated, but it goes with the territory, so just know that going in you're going to get criticized how do you deal with that criticism? When it when it starts coming in. Well, and of course, criticism in this day and age is so much harder. Because it's omni-present I mean, soc. Well, media everybody's criticizing in the most personal cruel terms. Sometimes the first thing that I would say is I have learned over time to distinguish between criticism and feedback criticism comes with the territory, if you are changing the order of things for the better, if you are solving problems if you are challenging the status quo. If you are making difficult decisions, you are going to get criticized. So don't be surprised criticism is distinguished from feedback in this sense feedback is input that you need to hear from people who actually care about you the decision you've made in the outcome. You're trying to achieve and so when someone gives you feedback and says, you know, maybe you miss something. Maybe you've made a mistake. You're listen, very carefully criticism is just resistance criticism is just people saying, I don't like it. I'm throwing stones and over time. I've come to learn to. To ignore criticism and seek feedback. I would say you're quite an optimist, and we like to think of ourselves at the Bush institute is Optimus and one of your famous phrases is is leadership is seeing possibilities. Can you tell us about your outlook? So I think that leadership requires equal measures of realism and optimism realism is required. So that you see the problem as it really is sometimes leaders most important role is to hold the mirror up. So that people can see the truth. The leader speaks the truth, and therefore you can act on the truth. So realism is you can't be pie in the sky rose colored glasses, you got to be realistic on the other hand optimism is the belief that things can get better that people will rise to the occasion. And unless you believe that you don't start solving anything you just sit and wallow in the way things are seeing possibilities. Is being able to look at the realities of where you are. But nevertheless, see the possibility for improvement and particularly see the possibilities that the human potential all around you can provide to get you to a better place. Is there something you're particularly optimistic about the you don't think others are necessarily seeing or paying attention to. Well has such a great question. I think our culture right now celebrates fame for fame sake. I mean, honestly with all due respect what is Kim Kardashian. She's a famous person, that's it fame for fame sake. I think we celebrate outrage. I think we felt celebrate controversy. I think we celebrate the nastier is the better, it is certainly our politics reflects that it sort of our public discourse our social media feels like worldwide wrestling and so. I think it's easy to get numb to that. What I think people are missing is the enormous potential that every human being has and the fact that we have so much untapped potential all around us in our communities in our schools in our nation in our world. Truthfully. Human potential is the only limitless resource. We have it's the only resource we need to solve every problem big or small, and we've got a lot of it lying fallow. And so that makes me optimist it, but it's also why I applaud the work of the Bush institute for teaching leadership and lifting leaders up. And it's why I focus on that. Same thing myself. So the unlocking potential foundation, and you can learn more about that Carly Fiorina dot com. But we are United in our belief that people are capable of far more than they realize and leadership is always the catalyst the secret sauce. To go from what is to something that is better in terms of education for the past thirty five years since a nation at risk. We've all been bemoaning educational performance in our own country. And how we're lagging in terms of the rest of the world. You have a perspective as a businesswoman. As somebody who's run for public office to be able to see that we have really not made very much progress on this that issue talk about why you think that such a big challenge. The business community has been calling for this for decades. And we haven't really gained any traction. Now, you know, one of the things that I think it's important to be realistic about is the power of the status quo. Whatever the system is even when it's deeply unsatisfying and everybody knows it the system the status quo is very powerful the status quo in education is very powerful dislike the status quo in politics is very powerful. And the reason the status quo is all. Always powerful because because people are invested in it. There are so many vested interests not to mention political alliances around the status quo and education in order to solve education. We have to realize how powerful that status quo is. And I think as President Bush tried to do wanted to do when he came into office. We have to go back to first principles. And I think the first principle is the student is who we ought to be focused on the student is who we ought to be focused on principle number one principle number two. We cannot afford to leave any student behind our nation requires all of us would be better off if we were lifting more students up and equipping them and preparing them to be productive problem solvers in their lives and number three the resistance that is encountered Israel. It's. Powerful. And so we need powerful change warriors on the other side. It's why I happen to think charter schools while not perfect are part of that lever because they provide choice, and they put parents more in charge. But all the way back to your previous question about what makes me optimistic. So a place where the status quo was incredibly powerful, California. Incredible vested interests a group of parents banded together. In sued their local school board, and the teachers unions took them on those parents one in court, and what they were suing for was give us a choice when our kids school is failing. Wow, how fundamental if that happened in California that can happen in a lot of places. The other thing that you're doing to unlocked potential things is little interesting is that you're you're launching a podcast, and we were talking a little bit before about. So your first guests such as baron. Davis was not someone you would expect. How how did that? To happen. Well, what I wanted to do to the point of what am I after mystic about what I want to do through this podcast is to show people the leaders that are all around us because we do get so focused on fame and controversy and people with big titles and positions. When there are leaders all around us all the time and the truth is there are leaders problem. Solvers people who are changing the order of things for the better in every walk of life baron. Davis has happens to be an incredible leader in problem-solver most people who know him know him from basketball, but these folks are all over and speaking of unexpected we're looking for a little bit of an unexpected answer where we ask some of our guests this question. What is no one talking about that we should be talking about? I think what no one is talking about. And so honestly, I've started talking about it that we should be talking about is the role and the power that each of us as citizens have we started with a question about democracy in this country. The citizen is sovereign. Not a president not a government on a congressman not a mayor the citizen is sovereign. And I think as citizens we have spent way too much time looking up to somebody else. Dallas where we are today is a fantastic example of a community that has come together citizens that have come together to make a real difference on problems that afflict this community, the private sector, the nonprofit sector government. Those are all citizens who said you know, what we're not waiting. We're not looking to Washington. We're just going to tackle this here. I think we as people in some cases, we as citizens certainly need to reclaim the power that we. Have in this country and use it to solve the problems that are right in front of us and quit looking to somebody else to do it. For us. Carly Fiorina has a book coming out in April. Find your way, you can pre-order it online at Carly Fiorina dot com. She also has an upcoming podcast, and is an incredibly busy lady who he can't take enough for taking the time to talk to us. If you enjoy today's episode like to help us spread the word about the strategic to please give us a five star review until your friends to subscribe for available on apple podcasts Spotify and all the major listening apps if you're tuning in on a smartphone tapper swipe over the cover art. You'll find episode notes with helpful information and details he may have missed the strategic was produced, but you Anna Pappas at the George W Bush institute in Dallas, Texas. Thank you for listening.
Aired Last month 33:48
2083: Fulfillment for Dummies: A Crash Course on the Pitfalls and Opportunities with Harry Drajpuch
Shake the room fire nation jail D here with an audio masterclass. That is literally going to be a critical component to your two thousand nineteen. If you ever see yourself, creating in shipping, physical product this audio mass class is called fulfilment for dummies. A crash course on the pitfalls and opportunities within warehouse fulfillment operations in. I brought hairy of Amway fulfilment which is a national fulfilment specialists that enables one to three day delivery ninety eight percent of the US while helping fast growing companies scale fulfillment operations through every growth stage cycle, and we're gonna be talking about a lot of things today. Specifically, what are some common steaks all my businesses? Make in fulfilment management's with my three journals the mastery the freedom and the podcastone you'd better believe be taking notes because I both store in ship. My products, not just the US but to the world, and I'm making a lot of mistakes that I'm gonna learn from hairy today. So. Stick around fire nation. We're gonna think our sponsor and dive right in. So what makes ZipRecruiter? So smart. Ziprecruiter, doesn't overwhelm you. With unqualified candidates. It's powerful. Technology scans thousands of resumes to identify people with the right skills. Inexperienced in actively invite them to apply to your job. So you get qualified candidates fast and is applications come in their technology analyzes each one spotlight. The top candidates to save you time and make sure you never miss a great match. And right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. Harry say what's up to fire nation and share something? Interesting about yourself that most people don't know I'll tell you something that most people do know a private instrument rated pilot. But when most people don't know is that I became a pilot to overcome a severe fear of flying. Wow. I have a fear flying. And I don't think become a pile. Pilot. So I definitely give you kudos for that. My friends cool south well, listen fire nation, as I mentioned, the in Trump, we're gonna be rocketing audio masterclass on fulfilment for dummies. We will be giving you literally a crash course on the pitfalls. Plus, the opportunities within warehouse film and operations as mentioned this is a near and dear topic to me because I have the freedom journal. The mash we journal the podcast journal. I have tens of thousands of these products sitting in warehouses, and I can tell you I'm making a lot of mistakes. So I'm taking notes I hope you do too fire nation, but just break it down for us right at the top Harry. Why did you write the book fulfilment for dummies? I wrote the book because there's a there's a need out there. I'm actively involved in almost all the new sales from my company, and I speak to entre preneurs and business owners on a daily basis. And it's really surprising. How many outs there just view? What we do is a black box and. And don't have visibility into it. Don't have a good understanding of it. And so I wrote it because I think when you when you approach the subject with some knowledge on it, you'll do your organization better, and you'll you'll make better choices in your fil film programs and one thing that I'm really curious about again being somebody who uses warehouses and uses fulfillment. And you know, it's a decent part of my overall revenue stream like, where's the direction of film going? What's the future, and what's the current state? The current state is very very fluid. It's growing it's growing business. Obviously more and more sales are happening online and the biggest impact fulfillment today is really the Amazon effect if you will the breath of products that you can buy on Amazon site and more importantly than that Amazon has raised the bar and expectations to where everybody wants their product faster. People want free shipping now. And they think that they can get you know, the product the iota today it'll ship today, I'll get it tomorrow or the day after or maybe a drone drop it off at my doorstep in two hours, one of the three or maybe a drones going to drop it off to your point. But for for us on this side that that are fulfilling order orders it's getting harder to retain associates. Unemployment is down wages are up people leave jobs for minimal amounts of money today. Everybody's got a living to make. So it's hard to retain associates parcel costs constantly going up, and they can make up as much as two thirds of fulfillment budget, and we're house fake and see rates in the United States are down. The good news is the economy is humming and space is harder to find it. When that happens space for cost goes up and taking on new customers can become a challenge because of that through one that I've seen again being in the trenches so to speak, and this is with an. John as well is that they're really ramping up long long term storage fees. Now, I've been using a warehouse back since back in two thousand fifteen and I just had really reasonable storage rates for all that time. In fact, you know, I bought like eighty thousand units because he's our non they expire, you know, their journals or books, so they store really well, so I bought eighty thousand to get my cost per unit way down, and I had this very specific long-term storage fee set up that was you know, year to year basis that was very affordable. And now I'm getting hit up by fulfilment of saying, hey, we are like quadrupling we are five exiting the long term storage. Meaning anything over six months is like becoming so super expensive. Why are for film centers doing this? And how can we as people that are using fulfillment centers, not just kind of get price out of this market part of it as being driven? Obviously. By the economy limited space, so Amazon. Got a ton of customers as as we all do today. Fortunately, there's a clam I services we have limited space that we can put people into and if you think of sitting in a bar and nursing that beer for a half an hour. You know, the the businesses looking at debts stool and saying, hey, I can I can serve five premium drinks and a half an hour hour, and this guy is in here nursing the beer well of your product sits in a warehouse and doesn't turn. You know money is made a slightly on on storing the product, but most is value added services so bringing product in bringing product out packing, it adding value to it making kits whatever it is that you do that activity generates revenue for providers for warehouseman. And if product just sits there, and doesn't turn you, you know, you can't make any money in that space. So therefore, they they raise the rates one to try to recover some of that and to to probably discourage you from placing products in a warehouse that pretty much just storage. It does make sense. Like, I said that was a good analogy. I definitely understand that so fire nation just really be aware number one. That's these online warehouses these warehouses generally fulfillment centers. You know, they are looking to move on the pick and pack. That's other value add services, they don't just want you to take like in my case eighty thousand books have to storm in the corner of the warehouse and just pay like whatever rate I've been paying every month over the years like they're looking for a little bit more kind of factor. That in for sure now, let's breakdown some more specifics. Like, how would you say or how many would you say we're houses in online retailer really needs to be successful depends on what your customers are really demanding. Do they do they insist is your is your current customer profile or is your custom current customer group or future customer group gonna demand that product in one or two days, if that's the case you're going to need multiple warehouses to do it officially you can ship anywhere in the United States overnight from virtually any point you'll go broke doing that. So which are really wanna do is get that product place as close to your customers as possible, and that might necessitate three maybe even four buildings if your product is a commodity, and it can be purchased if they're substitutes that are very similar to your product. Or if you're selling this reseller and selling the same product as others. Yeah. I mean, if you don't have the product either in stock or close to a customer will receive it today too. They're going to shop. Elsewhere. So that's that's going to drive. The fact that you'll need multiple warehouses. If your product is very very unique can't really be purchased anywhere else. Or if it's if it's such that is in a class by itself. The quality of your material is unique. It's it's it's really worth waiting for. Then you don't need multiple warehouses than you're going to be able to get by with one or possibly two and customers will accept a little bit of a long or shipping time as a result of that. So so really it's about what's the customer experience going to be for delivery. What's the product that you have? And again, if people can wait for your product, if they're willing to wait a little bit longer for your product just to have your product, then you can put it in fewer warehouses. And that's my. Do your research and find the right fulfillment company. For instance, for me knowing that by far ninety plus percent of my sales of the journals were going to be in the United States. I found a company that had one warehouse in Kelly and one warehouse in Pennsylvania. So the wherever the journalists ordered whichever one is closer is going to go from that warehouse can be much easier. Experience somebody orders from New York City doesn't come from Kelley is coming from Pennsylvania. So that just makes the process a lot better and simpler in again impacts customer satisfaction. Which is what I want to talk about next hairy. How does fulfilment in your experience from your side of things impact customer satisfaction opening up a package that you've been waiting for whether it's two days or two weeks, and you open up the package and the product was just kind of thrown in there. You know during transit got shaken around. It's jumbled up in there or it wasn't the right product. You know, you ordered a red. You got a blue you would allo-. Got a small whatever it may be shipping on time with one hundred percent order accuracy, really extend trust in your brand in your product and just really heightens the customer experience, you know, the greatest product and shopping experiences can be undermined by a poor fulfillment experience. Whether it's shipping late, whether it's incomplete order, whatever. It's lobby packaging, you're missing pieces. Nothing worse than getting something that you're going to ultimately put together and you find out pieces are missing from it. So it's really important that the product go out on time go out and tack go out as a perfect order and again packaging plays a big role in customer satisfaction having the right kind of inside packaging. Looks like care was taken to make the product. The look nice inside. It just enhances that entire experience for the consumer and really will wanna make them come back and repurchase from from your side. If you will key word fire. Our nation repurchase. I mean that is a huge part of my business people finishing their one hundred day freedom journal, and then ordering another one or people finishing one hundred journal loving the experience wanting to try the hundred mastery journal or just saying I want to get into podcasting now, and I know the jail Dita's, great products increased Greek contents, and I trust and because of my past purchases only go the podcast journal making all that stuff. Happened fire nation starts with that initial customer satisfaction that the order the product the park arise undamaged package nicely. It's on time. All those things. It's absolutely critical for repeat customers, and for people to just become evangelists Bush approx and services, they're gonna tell their friends like XYZ. That's why one reason where's Apple's became so famous because they would upgrade your order for free. They would add a little gift they would do this. They would do that. And people started talking about they will get interviewed on CNBC. Like think about those things fire nation can really add up, but we make a lot of steaks, Harry. I make a lot of mistakes for sure because it's not like. My soul current focus, which is why we need experts like you to come on talk to us right books. Like you've written. What are the common mistakes that you're seeing online businesses make when it comes to their fulfilment management? There are several common mistakes that entrepreneurs and businesses make interestingly today to see and be the be many many businesses are serving both markets and in an effort to maintain good quality to both markets and fill rates. What what a lot of entrepreneurs wanna do split that inventory. So I'm going to set aside product that just goes to consumers that I'm going to set aside literally the same type of product that goes a business to business. And so what they do in separating that product is that they'll actually separate them in a warehouse. So that there's no chance of it being co mingled there's no chance of my beat ac- inventory going down to satisfy the Beata be and that one drives up your costs. It's it's it goes back to my earlier. A comment about how many how many warehouses you need. If you start to put your product in multiple warehouses, even the same inventory, you're carrying costs. Go up you've gotta manage to inventory points or three or four and then you've got manage shipments to those facility point. So you really just drive your administrative your labor and your inventory costs way up. Another another mistake. That's fairly common is the the failure to officially scale your operations. So e e Taylor's make a couple of mistakes in this area and one is before products actually gained traction in the market. They're going to do they're going to want to do fulfillment themselves. Maybe to see what it's like maybe to start out will maybe they'll just find a single, oh, -cation mom and pop kind of filming partner if you will. And then when the product takes off in volume spikes, there's really no time to react, and they're dealing with a small provider that really can't scale affectively. And so they're missing out. On on a fulfilling orders, they're having disappointed customers, and you don't get you. Don't get a second chance to make a first impression. So you really turn off potential buyers and again the repurchase with that. And then and then there's the companies that go in the opposite direction. They're well well-funded startups, and they wind up spending a boatload of money in up fitting facility in anticipation of growth and operations, and they wind up with tremendous infrastructure in carrying costs and equipment. That's not utilized properly again, all they do is drive up their own costs their own inefficiencies, and ultimately even have to pass that onto a consumer and become somewhat uncompetitive or eats into their margin. You know outsourcing to a third party creates a fulfill a flexible fulfillment solution that you can grow that can grow as you grow. Fulfillment costs are easier because they match your revenue stream. So your expenses will match as your. Business grows your expense will grow and they grow proportionately together. So they're they're they're instinct and they're in line. Another mistake that that's made is paying too much for parcel shipping. A lot of etailers Postle shipping almost as a commodity is cost of doing business, and they feel they have limited ability to really influenced that, and that's not the case. That's a mistake. There are many cost-saving profit improving strategies that you can use to control it. You know, that that determines the size of your box will determine how much you're gonna pay for shipping, and there are cost effective boxes that you generally just don't buy from a box maker, you might have to make it a little bit customized. But you'll save in the long run on that the other thing that that outsourced companies. Third party providers can bring to the table is is leverage of we have we handle almost a million shipments month in my organization dam where we have tremendous buying power with with the H L UPS FedEx. That an individual entrepreneur doesn't have on their own. So by going with a third party provider able to take advantage of that scale that they can leverage for you many companies. Also starting out make a mistake that they don't need a warehouse management system. And you know, when you're small it's entirely possible to get by with a highly manual approach, but as your sales grow, and you're trying to manage your your, your, your, inventory, and your business and your orders on a next cell spreadsheet that can quickly get out of control few. I mean, obviously a solution to that is buying a warehouse management system, but those can run you in the area of a half a million dollars. And again is you're starting out why make that expenditure. If you outsource that. You can take advantage of a warehouse management system that I have that I spread over a million dollars a month that you get all the functionality all the benefit of for fraction of the cost. And then one final big mistake that that's. It's made on the outsourcing part is not not constructing a good outsourcing agreement outsourcing agreements fail most often because the buyer's expectations would not clear up front. So if you can carefully construct a scope of work document that's going to make the headaches. Go away later take the time up front to align with your provider on the objectives of the project forms expectations cost timelines, and as business starts to ramp up when you really really need that thing to work like a well oiled machine your filament machine. You won't be sitting down arguing worrying about agreements about the Z. We weren't expecting this. You know, it's going to have a well laid glide path for your growth, and it's going to it's going to facilitate growth again when you get everything done up front in an agreement that he has my full scope of work. Here's what I expect you to do. It's not it's not like building a house. You can go up to a contract and say wanna four bedroom. House two story two thousand square feet and walk. Away or you can really sit down and say, hey here. Here's what it has to consist of. Here's more detail. Let's get it done up front. I want outlets in every room three outlets in every will my this lighting, I want this kind of heat you understand the more detail you get into up front. The better the experience will be when it's completed lot of great food for thought their fire nation a couple of things I wanna go back over that. I think are key number one. If you're going to be NBC. So that's business the business and business to consumer really be focused when you're splitting that inventory because that can be a big. No, no, if you don't do a right as cost can go way up to make sure your very intentional about that. And then also failure to officially skill your operation. And that again goes to my next point, which is if you are growing, if you are scaling you need that warehouse management system and the big year going the more efficient more effective than more professional that warehouse management system has to be as Harry mentioned this goes high as five hundred K. So, you know, it's definitely could be a big. Cost. So you know, what to be their day one? But you wanna always have it on the horizon that what am I doing to have this warehouse management system for this growing business that I have now we have a ton of value bombs fire nation coming at you. When we get back from thinking, our sponsor fire nation, I'm here with Ian Siegal, this of Zip Recruiter, and in m-, the you had a few hiring challenges of your own before you found ZipRecruiter. What incurs you to build ZipRecruiter to begin? With the decision to build ZipRecruiter stemmed from my own frustration with how time consuming and frustrating. Hiring process was I was working for startups where we were too small to have our own department. And so I was posting my own jobs to multiple job sites. And then finding my own way to get the candidates out of the sites. It was one of the things I looked forward to the least in executing my role. I've ZipRecruiter to create a one click simple solution where you push about in in your job goes to every job site on the web. And then all. All the candidates come into one easy to review last. It makes the hiring process so much simpler, and it makes it so much faster to find the right person fire nation, I can empathize with how Ian used to feel can you because before Zip Recruiter get to go to multiple sites. Each own unique. Log in pass recombination the process was so disorganized being able to access all your job candidates in one place is a huge time saver having an organized process is critical fire nation when you hire. It's built in with ZipRecruiter. Ziprecruiter makes hiring simple with one click ZipRecruiter send your job over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there. Zip recruiter's powerful. Technology scans thousands of resumes. Find people with the right skills. -education inexperienced in actively invite them to apply to your job. It's no wonder Zip Recruiter is rated number one by employers in the US based on trust pilot ratings of hiring sites over a thousand reviews in right now fire nation, you can try zip. For free. That's right free. Just go to this exclusive web address, Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. That's Zip Recruiter dot com slash f. I r e ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So Harry, we're back, and I have an audience of entrepreneurs small business owners, and they have a lot of things you need to do to run their business successfully. So why do we need to also understand picking packaging shipping break that down force inside the warehouse picking for instance, is the largest labor expense inside the warehouse again. So what drives up that expense is not just the activity of picking product but travel time and warehouse. So in other words, an order that has five six seven eight items different items on it in a warehouse. You're walking to get that that product from place to place. So understanding how that. Act is placed in a warehouse or under standing what the picking costs are in a warehouse will just set you up for you being a good partner in helping to keep that cost down if you will reasonable and helping the three PL Jeep that Kuhn making here for a second. 'cause like what's something that we could do to really be helpful in that scenario? There's nothing that helps like planning and there's nothing that helped like data. So if you happen to have let's say a hundred different items two hundred items that you're selling providing providing your third party provider with what you think sales velocity will be by item will allow that provider to put those those high velocity items together. So that when orders come in for that, they're walking less if you're not sure about where that what velocity would be of your sales because most sales follow the eighty twenty rule, right? Twenty percent of your items account for eighty percent of your costs. If you don't know that and you just place the product in. A warehouse in a hap- not in a haphazard way. But rather in a random way, you may walk from end to end the constantly fill orders. And it's just again, it's just takes longer to fill an order if it takes longer to fill in order, your charges going to be higher for that order again, you either have to pass that forward or you're gonna wind up absorbing that. And making less profit in the times like I've just barely kind of miss that drop off where the products going out for the day or hasn't. And then I've had to deal exponentially with the product nationally on time the customer complaining and the tracking this and the hassle fire nation, keep it easy. So one thing I should say, Harry is I'm curious because I've never outsourced this yet. But what point do we think that outsourcing fulfilment actually make sense? Let's talk about the pros a general you can save money by outsourcing ten to twenty percent, savings typical. And and it can be even higher with with parcel shipping management. If you. Allow your your provider to DiMaggio small parcel shipments. Again, they're going to leverage their buying power. And they'll pass some of that onto you, obviously. And you'll be able to save money. Now, the pro is if you have large volume swings, if your business very very seasonal outsourcing makes a lot of sense in that point in that case, you know, you don't wanna be encumbered. If you're doing it internally, and you have volume swings. You've got to figure out how to get temporary or part-time employees on board to handle that volume. Swing something that you're probably not focused on. It's not your core, competency, you just want to sell. You don't wanna be a labor manager? You don't wanna be having to make these arrangements for that? So third party providers can do this. They do this all the time. They have arrangements with many staffing competence. They have access to temporary employees that most entrepreneurs don't have. When the reason for outsourcing scaling easily and quickly again, whether it's a promotion that you wanna run that just came up that you had an idea you see an opportunity to run a promotion, and you really wanna ramp up very quickly again a third party provider. Outsource provider who does that for a living? Does that all the time? They can do that significantly faster than you can again, you're going to source labor. You're going to have to source supervision to manage it. You're going to have to start all sorts of agreements to get that on board. Third party providers. Have that in place many times, they may not even have to go outside for labor. They may have it internally. There may be you know, season -ality for everybody isn't at the same time. You may hit it with third party provided where another account get slow. You get busy in. They can just transition employs within within the within the warehouse. And then finally, look, you know, focusing on your core business is really really critical. If you're the. Captain of ship and there's problems in the engine room. It might be good to under have an understanding of what's going on in that engine room. But if you've got a roll up your sleeves and go down there and start working on the problems. Nobody is managing. Nobody is is captaining that ship, and it's going to kind of drift. If you will out in the out in the c the there's a there's an interesting story I like to tell and it relates to flying. I think it's very apropos in in the seventies on a seven twenty-seven. There was a flight crew that was on on final approach to Miami International Airport. And if you remember in those days there were three people in the cockpit. One was a flight engineer first officer on a captain and all of a sudden the green light came on. And the first officer kind of got pied with the green light it had to do with the landing gear, and it was really nothing more than malfunction the light. But you know, he kind of pointed out to the first officer that hey, check this thing out and they star. To chat about it before you know, what they got the captain involved in it knoll three starting to focus on his life. That was really unimportant. And before they knew it. They had actually the plane had actually flown into the ground. Everybody on board didn't survive, and that really gave birth to the proximity the ground proximity warning system. But the point of the story is that someone's got to fly the airplane. Someone's gotta manage your business. Someone's gotta look out for your business long term. And if you're worried about the nits and NATs if you're worried about the operation, and how that's going to be you can't manage your business. You can't grow at you can't guide it you're gonna miss opportunities. So those are the main pros for outsourcing now there are some cons when you outsource. There's there is the perception that you move control. So in other words, you're outsourcing to accompany like mine, the employees don't work for your company. They worked for me. And you're kind of worried about that they have the same. Care that they have the same passion about my product as my own people would have it's it's it's there's a little bit of truth to it. But at the end of the day, we have a business to run as well. We take an interest in your product, we wanna be an extension of your back room. But ultimately, that's something that goes to entrepreneurs mind outsourcing can also mean losing people you've had people that maybe you've started up with your own team. And they've worked with you for a few years, and there's a loyalty, and you know, where you outsource to might not be locally. So you can't these people can't just transition the job, and you kind of feel a kinship an affinity for the people. I think that's a great trait. It's good to take care of your own people. Again, you gotta think about the benefit and the well being of your own organization to grow. And you know, you have to learn, you know, learning new skills so managing fulfillment. Companies. Like mine is a new skill set. I don't. You would have a one a fully throw the keys over to someone and say great manage my business. You do have to be a partner to that business. It is it is a piece of your business. And so there's a skillset managing the third party. That's a little bit different than managing internally. So those are those are the pros and cons of outsourcing at the end of the day. They were very very few businesses that that have logistic says the strategic objective, and so partnering with someone who's really good at it who really knows how to do it efficiently. Who knows how to keep those costs down for? You is a big big plus. So fire nation. I love these analogies that Harry's using. And also that story I mean, just bring things to light literally the green lights are probably never figured that story and everytime landing now in a plane, Harry probably yell out. Don't look at the light guys. What there's a lot of things that used to be focusing on their fire nation the pros and the cons. But overall, even if you are running your own warehouse film, you have those people there at the same time. They're working just like Harry's people are working, and if you can still care in them, that's Harry, folks zoo instilling care for your products and services in your business as well. So Harry overall you wrote the book fulfilment for dummies. So you literally wrote the book on this topic on this subject, how can people get a hold of that? And maybe learn more about Amway's. Well, very simple. Just visit 'em where fulfilment dot com right at the top of the page. You'll find the book of the book was written fairly generically. It will help onto. Preneurs as they try to outsource. It's not specific to Amway fulfillment. The website, obviously is if you wanna know more about us what we do who we are. It's all on the website. Just a click away. Speaking of that click if they do order fulfillment for dummies. What happens next they can just download it right from the website. They can read it will probably make contact the within a few days. Do you have any questions? Is there anything in the book that that didn't answer a question for you? Can we have the opportunity to to answer that it's as simple as that, no pressure? So as we can wrap up our chat today. Harry, what is one thing? Like one theme d just want to make sure our listeners really get from our entire conversation today. What does that one thing? Do your homework very very carefully think long and hard about outsourcing. There's there's a lot of people out there who claim they do it just understand what you wanna get accomplished. Do. Again. Do your homework. Do your research. Each partner with someone that not only has the skill set, but has the same temperament as your organization, it's a marriage and like any marriage. You wanna make sure that you have the right partner who has the same interested you that will extensively be a good complement to you that what you need they can provide. And what they need you will provide in one more time. What's that called action for fulfilment for dummies WWW 'em? We're fulfillment that com fire nation in wear fulfillment dot com. Head over there. Get what you need. Learn more learn from the best 'cause you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with even hanging out with HD in J L D today. So keep up the heat in if you had over to he'll fire dot com and just type hairy in the search bar, the shoeless page for this entire episode pop up with links to everything that we've been talking about in Harry. I wanna thank you for sharing your truth. Your knowledge with fire nation today for that we still. Blue. And we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you. Hey, fire nation. Today's value bombs was brought to you by Harry, and the am where team, and if you ready to rock a podcast, you should really be checking out free, podcasts course dot com because big surprise completely free by gassing cores will you'll learn how to create grow monetize your very own podcast catch you their fire nation or catch you on the flip side. Readies higher team, but not sure where to start. Luckily, there's Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. So what makes ZipRecruiter? So smart it learns what you like when you pose a job on super cooter. Start reviewing applications. Your feedback teaches ZipRecruiter's mashing technology more about the precise skills and experiences. You're looking for. So it can invite more people who have them to apply. This helps you quickly get better. And better candidates until you find the perfect one. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. That's Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire.
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Hello coming up on today's show. What kind of technology can we use to deal with the threat of rogue? Drones. Not a very good idea to use rockets missiles or even snipers rifles in the Pacific that big civilian airport. How Dutch hospitals leading the fight against superbugs. It's a huge problem at any given time a million and a half people around the world have an infection that they have picked up at the hospital and a new kind of camera can see ram corners. It would be interesting if we could extend that environmental awareness beyond the line of sight. So that for example, you could notice that there's a child on the other side of a parked car. I'm Tim cross the technology at the economist, and you're listening to budge. First up rogue drones for something that only weighs if you kilograms and doesn't cost great deal of money small consumer Jones been causing an awful lot of haven't the summer of dangerous encounters between planes and threats controlled from the ground has seen one more very close. Call between a drone an airliner on approach Earl flights in and out of Gatwick Bush's second busiest airport have been suspended to two drones will seem flows to drones flew way. Too close to a plane tonight four seen a temporary ground stop here at Newark airport. More than two hundred drone either available or in development, but not much in the way of consensus on what exactly work what weren't to discuss the situation, I'm joined by Paul Marsili, the economists innovation editor, hi, Paul high so pull as oppose the basic question that most will have is hang on count. We just simply shoot these things out of the sky not very good idea to use rockets missiles or even snipers rifles in the Pacific big civilian. Apple is still just collateral damage rifle bullet is lethal to Colomiers. Will even more. But also what if you just win the drone, and it goes out of control, spins around, wildly and crashes into some public area like people cooing for taxi rancor, apple that's not going to be very acceptable. So the technology at the moment is really being aimed at while. They go soft kill which in various forms of radio jamming, I suppose another question. He sometimes see us is. Well, can't we ignore these things, you know, bought an aircraft designed to survive bird strikes, and so on and the Jones a pretty small company just sort of fly anyway, and if one hit to play in the drones gonna come off much worse, and you know, it it it doesn't really matter not necessarily that thing about a drone. I'm like a bird is birds a fairly consistent quality. But the drones got bits of metal in it. So Scott lithium polymer batteries, which kind of tendency to person to flames. And so they could do a lot more damage than a bird. Okay. So if it's not really practical to shoot them down or just carry on, regardless. What can we do about them? Well, we need technological solutions because in. Hands of a terrorist. Of course drone is a very different dangerous machine because they like Nole any rules and regulations like rinse Jin drones and things like that they could become very threatening, especially if they carry explosives as some drones have been doing the way that most companies now looking at dealing with this is to have sophisticated what some call three d radar which can actually pick drones up several kilometers out. Airfield Ray does not terribly good at doing this or differentiated from birds. Now, if you can spot them early enough and track them well enough, then you can respond very quickly getting to be sure when the threats on the airport could be reopened. Okay. So it might be getting a bit easier to spot them, which is the first half of the problem. But then once you know, there's a drone that how'd you actually get it out of the sky? What is being used as softer versions of military electronic warfare? You don't want that to be turned up too high. Because again in a civilian apple you could risks damaging the sensitive instruments in the control tower also aircraft itself. So it needs. To be very selective of recurrently targeted. So these anti-drug systems needs to analyze what the drone is likely to be doing and then selectively modulate sort of various kinds of sickles to sort of force it to land takeover is operating system. What they call spoofing the drones that you can effectively take control of it and make it land. And I've also heard people working on things like firing nets out of sort of compressed add zoo because at that kind of thing, you know, this is like that around the drones will chase after them and capture them as well and crash into them. The problem is that is the airports are very big places. You've got to have a system that can operate at night and in poor visibility and some of these things possibly could indeed work also like going out with good shotgun. If he's good at good and that's fairly safe on like a rifle bullet, but you've got to be close to the drone. And you've got to be able to spot it and be there quickly. And these things seem to be fleeting. They come in. They disappear. They come again will that person be in the right place at the right time. So there's a whole load of technological solutions that people sort of tinkering with. But how does this call deregulation side? Well, there is a interesting tension there because on one side, we're getting the regulations being relaxed. For instance, there are now prying this to allow people to fly drugs out of line of sight, for instance, of the operator which would greatly increase their business use and some people think this is going to be a hundred billion dollar business in a few years time serving photographing do all these job site that but because allowing drone to fly out of sight of his operator tends to alarm some in the aerospace community by saying well that could cause more accidents unless these drones could be integrated somehow into the air traffic control system in time when they technology may allow that. But at the moment, that's not their thanks very, much pleasure. Next up across Europe once and dangerous superbugs resistant to the most kinds of antibiotics spreading fast, just over seventy percent of the deaths caused by them come from factions that people pick up in hospitals, but does one country that's doing very well in quarantining limiting the spread of these diseases from that's the Netherlands to discuss this, and what other countries can learn from the Dutch, I'm joined by Slavia Chen, cover the economists healthcare correspondent high so that high Tim so how big a problem is this exactly it's a huge problem at any given time a million and a half people around the world have an infection that they have picked up at the hospital, and after these infections are with bugs that resistant -biotics. So they're highly deadly in Europe more than one hundred thousand people a year die from hospital, quiet infections and a similar number in America. So it is a huge problem. Some of these infections have mortality rates on the order of fifty percent. That's right carve-up 'em resistant, gut bacteria, which are some of the most dangerous ones that are spreading now are lethal in about fifty percent of cases compared to ten thirty percent with other dangerous peculiar, and so among all that one country stands out of bit full being quite successful at combating these things, and that's the Netherlands. What exactly is it? They do that makes them so good at this. So they have a strategy called search and destroy which is essentially when some people come into hospital, they're being tested for these dangerous superbugs, and if they just positive their current TNT in specialize elation rooms and all health workers who care for them have to follow very strict instructions, they in some cases, they have to wear face masks and gloves special gowns that they discard on the way out of these speculation. Rooms. I mean, this sounds like the kind of precautions you take when you're dealing with something really nasty like a hemorrhagic fever like a bowler or something. Yeah. In fact, the at one big hospital. Visit didn't answer them. They call one of those 'isolation rooms the ballroom, and if they ever have any ball patients, that's why there will keep them. But at the moment that full of people with the super books instead. That's right. Yes. That's the strategy that the choose and how easy is it to export does strategy because it sounds like you need to dedicate, you know, several rooms in the hospital to this. You're going to need to be able to cope when some of your work has can't do other GT's because they've been caring for people with these illnesses. I mean, that's not easy. Is it right? Many hospitals around Europe have very few single bedroom. So they can't afford to replicate that that strategy wholesale. But there are some very simple things that they can do one thing that was done, really. Well this hospital. It's a seven hundred bed hospital. They pay really good attention to the basics. So basic hospital. Hey, gene. How basically we talking here. We are talking about cleaning your hands literally it's handwashing and nowadays, it's not washing with self and water. It's mostly alcoholic Hendra, which is more effective and easy to use. But they they're really Selous about it until hundreds of years to several vice found out washing. Your hands is a good way to stop transferring infections. I think if you look around at some modern hospitals, you had some numbers from from Britain in the two thousands about just how bad some hospital. Hygiene was yes. When their investigations of outbreaks of superbugs and British hospitals around two thousand five thousand six investigators found filthy words healthcare workers who are washing their hands clean their hands less than thirty percents of the time and the UK made the legal requirement for hospitals to have proper hygiene. It started monitoring compliance the results became public and there was a rapid improvement in. At the rate of the deaths from superbugs that's from Emerson infections declined by ninety percent between two thousand four and two thousand twelve thirty percent. That's shocking. I mean, all expensive medical school, education's you'd think, you know, hand washing. Everyone knows the importance of that why was it so low well before into the hospitals were, you know, really stringent about hand washing and cleanliness because people would easily die without without antibiotics if they had an infection when antibiotics became invented after penicillin more and more antibiotics were available on contracted an infection. There were just given an antibiotic people stop dying, so doctors and nurses became complacent. And now we're in the situation where anti-biotics or no longer working. So we have to go back to basics. So it sounds like Britain managed to achieve a lot. Just by something quite simple, really encouraging people to wash their hands of other countries. Not learned there's lessons yet. Unfortunately, not a study by the. European centers for disease control and prevention found that any for example, hand hygiene was very poor in most of the hospitals visited also if you look at the level of use of alcohol based hand sanitizer in hospitals for patient per day, which uniform measure, you see that some countries like Bulgaria Romania Italy have a rates of usage, which is, you know, a fifth of the amount used in some of the Scandinavian countries and warriors because it seems like quite a simple easy thing to do. Unfortunately, it seems that in many countries fighting superbugs in hospitals. It's just not a priority. So there isn't really considered plan and focus on improving hospital hygiene, and it tackling the problem some countries are waking up to that. So hopefully, we'll see things getting better in the next couple of years. But there are also practical issue so healthcare worker in. Mm cases has to clean his or her hands about a hundred times per shift, especially those who are in intensive care units. So that's a that's a practical challenge. People often get dry hands and may just neglect using hand sanitizer for practical reasons, so it's really important to convince them of the benefits and find ways to provide products that work for them. So I guess the message is if you kind of old fancy expensive separation walls, then great, but there are some cheaper more basic things that pretty well as well. Yes, it's a hand cleaning is probably the most effective thing that can be down to prevent hospital quiet infections with any any bugs, whether it's a superbug or less harmless like many things chick is don't over complicate the problem today. I thank you very much. Thank you him. Finally for the past decade, computer. Scientists have been working on cameras that can see round corners. Your idea is to analyze the light scattering objects that hidden from direct view, and then reconstruct the images of those objects with computers this line of research is called non line of sight imaging MLS and typically you needed special lasers and very sensitive light detectors, which has made it delicate and pretty pricey. But researchers at Boston University just demonstrated a much simpler and cheaper and LS imaging system that uses to standard digital cameras on the laptop computer Alec jar one of our science correspondents discuss this research with vivid Goyal who is an associate professor, electrical and computer engineering at Boston University. Vivek? Welcome to Bob edge. Hello, it's great to be with you. So to start by telling a little bit about the basic premise behind this system of yours. The basic idea is to try to use a Matt wall surface as if it were Amirah so to be able to use that Matt wall surface to extend the range of view in a normal situation. Of course, light reflecting over mount Walser doesn't tell you anything about what's around the corner. How does you'll system get around the issue? Yeah. So the reason that a wall doesn't work like a mirror in our common experience is that the light scatters off of the wall in every direction. Unlike a mirror, which for one incoming light Ray direction sends the light in one direction. So we need some mechanism to try to undo that kind of combining or mixing of the light. So how'd you do it? So our method is to take advantage of opaque objects that just happened to be in. In the scene. So when there's an opaque object between the scene of interest and the Matt wall that's within our field of view the opaque object and the scene behind it together. Create a number that we can measure, and what we've discovered is that we can process a simple ordinary photograph of that number to not only learn where the opaque object is. But to also form an image of the scene. That's behind it, though, not completely obscured by it. So when you say number, you mean, a partial shadow on the world, this is range of shades of gray, HUD, you from those shades of gray, essentially, get the image tomorrow is we won't see anything from that. Yes. Absolutely. You know, it turns out that the object is separating the light rays into some that are blocked and some that are not blocked. Now, the important thing is with the camera. You can be measuring at easily a million. Points on the wall simultaneously. We have megapixel cameras in our pockets all day. So you make many many measurements. And each of those measurements has a slightly different combination of seen contributions when you have a large number of distinct combinations of light from the scene of interest. Then you can write that as a system of equations and do your best at solving that system of equations to form the image. And so you unscarred the lights essentially, mathematically computational. Right. So you've got this image. Now, do you have to know what the shape or the position of this object that you've put in front of scene is because seems to be a limitation. Yes. Indeed. In what we've demonstrated thus far. We have a known shape for that pay concluding object. It turns out that we're able to estimate the position with the shape having been known ahead of time. And then additionally. Form the image of the scene behind it. And so do you magic time when you would be able to know what that thing is because in the real world, you might not know what these including objects are what shaped size there. Definitely we have ongoing work along with collaborators on being able to apply similar techniques. Even when the shape of the ACLU is not known in some sense. What we've explored is one extreme case where we have just a single snapshot. But if you a magic, the ACLU ding object being stationary and some motion in the scene than a collection of snapshots or video of the white wall would allow you to estimate the shape of the include her and form images of the scene behind it simultaneously. There are other methods that could be used as well. So active optical methods might be used to measure the shape of the including object because it's closer to the. Wall. And then our methods could be applied to form the image of the scene behind the cluding object now luckil- technologies one hopes that this gets better, and you will solve those problems. Can you three mines four would what kinds of things would you be able to use you'll technology of a sort of known line of sight Timoci full? Where would it be applied best? Well, it would certainly be exciting. If it had an impact in search and rescue towards sorts of situations where it may be dangerous for camera person to obtain direct line of sight to large parts of the scene searching for survivors or searching for dangerous objects. Or you could also imagine non line of sight imaging techniques impacting autonomous navigation right now, a Thomas vehicles or developed with light our systems that form accurate three d maps of the surroundings. But that's limited to line of sight from the vehicle. It would be interesting if we could extend that. Environmental awareness beyond the line of sight. So that for example, you could notice that there's a child on the other side of a parked car. Or if you could identify vehicles that are coming from across street, imagine soldiers would find this interesting too. I imagine so as well, and our work is in fact, funded by DARPA, and I think we could we can imagine battlefield awareness sorts of applications for this technology. Thank you very much. Thank you. That was John token to glue, and that's all for this edition average. You can find more on all these stories in this week's economist will online at economists dot com. Please get to rate us on apple podcasts. I'm Tim cross in London. This is the economist.
The Economist: Babbage