14 Episode results for "Bunkerville Nevada"

Sally Jewell on climate change, extremism, and listening

Go West, Young Podcast

35:15 min | Last month

Sally Jewell on climate change, extremism, and listening

"Welcome to the landscape. Your show about america's parks and public lands. I'm aaron weiss center for western priorities in denver. Joe biden has been president for just over a week. And wow do we have a whole lot to talk about. Normally i would start with the news. Update bringing you up to speed on everything that just happened and give you my take on what it all means for our public lands. But why should you listen to me when we have someone with way more and much better perspective on hand. Let's be honest here She needs no introduction. But i will give her one anyway. Celie jewel was the fifty first secretary of the interior serving during barack obama's second term before that she was the ceo of a boutique company called rei. She spent one thousand nine years as a commercial banker. She started her career as a petroleum engineer. In oklahoma and so with that secretary sally jewel. Welcome to the thanks aaron. It's great to be here so on wednesday. The biden administration announced a sweeping executive order. Actually a series of orders on climate change that includes pausing oil and gas leasing on public lands and the continental shelf. There's a directive to pursue the thirty by thirty goal of protecting thirty percent of america's landed waters by twenty thirty and there's an overarching commitment to putting environmental justice front and center across the entire administration. Not just the interior department or epa so starting with any or all of those. Give us your thoughts on the order. And how the interior department in particular can go about implementing it. Well let me start saying the ambition that they've identified right out of the shoot. I think is extraordinarily helpful. There is no question that with each pair we have become more and more aware of the challenges of climate change and over the last four years we have seen so much work around addressing climate change biodiversity loss and thoughtful constructive collaborative management of public lands thrown aside with a just a breakneck pace to lace to lease excuse me federal lands and waters for oil gas and mineral development which is potentially devastating if developed so i applaud this administration for its swift action in putting a pause while we take our breath and take stock in what has done over the last four years and what needs to happen going forward as secretary of the interior one of the things that we worked hard on was putting a pause on the coal leasing program which hadn't been looked at for over thirty years. I'm proud of the work that was done but we didn't get it across the finish line because there was insufficient time but we had many many community meetings to identify what's wrong with the federal coal leasing program as it impact. You know the landscapes. How does it impact the communities the jobs but also kinda lousy dealer we giving to the taxpayer and the reality as identified by the biden administration is the same kind of review needs to take place for oil and gas so i applaud this administration for swiftly. Saying we're gonna put a pause take stock in what we have going to pay attention to where we need to go to the future for the future. And then we're going to craft policies in a way that is collaborative and listen to all points of view. So i'm hugely appreciative of the swift action and the effort that they have as identified in their press. Release to listen to different points of view. And i think that's really smart so walk us through then. These next couple years will look like in terms of that crafting watching the sausage gets made. And how do you make sure you do it so that it does actually get done in a time when it can make it into the federal register stick you know when i think back to the four years or just under four years that i spent a secretary of the interior on what we were able to accomplish the things that i am most proud of. Were the efforts that required but we talked about as epic collaboration. It was bringing people of vastly different points of view together in an authentic way to get to know each other as individuals not just as sumed ideologies to listen and to shape a policies and programs that respected different points of view and you apples of that in a work with many of the states in the the great basin and the greens on the preservation of critical habitat in the sagebrush. See so that the greater sage grouse would not warrant listing under the endangered species act. Most people said that couldn't be done because of the hard work of nonprofit hence states and ranchers and companies and the blm forest service in the fish wildlife Usgs all coming to the fish and wildlife service said the the species did not warrant a listing because of laboratory of efforts on protecting key habitat Brosse when the trump administration said. We're going to revisit that. I heard very conservative. Western states governor. Who said i really miss you. And i said really why is and he. It's because oil companies are coming to me. Saying wise is being revisited. We thought we had a deal. So what i hope. And what i have seen in the fact sheets and things. They're part of the interior has put out since this announcement is a commitment to listening and to collaboration. And there's a phrase of used in business and i used secretaries. Well sometimes you have to slow down before you can speed up if the slowdown and listen and say what is the common ground that oil and gas industry and the environmental community and the community. Who have jobs that are dependent on fossil fuels and indian tribes in the regions. The outdoor recreationists. You name it. What is it that the common and is there halfway forward where we can listen to those points of view and craft that to that that pathway and that exactly what worked well for us. Not only in the sage perceive and setting up atlantic wind energy leasing in off of the atlanta board establishing solar energy zones within the mojave desert or renewable energy zones solar and wind because of That kind of epa collaboration of efforts for example along the klamath river in oregon and california on dam removal which a deal that fell apart in congress but is continuing to move forward on the removal of those dams because of efforts on the end that had to do with this kind of deep collaboration. So that is what. I expect and hope that the biden administration does to bring along into move pass. Just the you know really dramatic rhetoric that. You're hearing right now. In response to their announcement is what do you think. That looks like. I'm trying to imagine so. I was on a on a wgn. America's nation last night and they had a reporter in gillette wyoming with a report from a bar on oil and gas leasing the leasing pause and there was a whole lot of swearing and bleeping going on in the bar. And i'm trying to imagine. Then if you sit down with those folks and the mayor of gillette who was much more reserve but obviously still on the side of the oil and gas companies. What happens when you get those folks in a room with say. The sunrise movement who endorsed president biden but have very strong expectations for what he's gonna do in terms of of oil and gas leasing. What do you think a meeting like that goes like and how do you get two sides like that into into a happy place. If there is a happy place yeah well it starts by moving beyond sides and gets to interactions with each other where it inevitably when you begin to build relationships between people the ideologies and the assumptions about each other the bias. Fall away to where you really begin to understand where they're coming from. And once you do that. And we saw that on the sage grouse for example and we saw it in a number of other collaborative efforts as well. I mean in the klamath. Never seen more men emotional about the efforts that took place to try and balance the needs of ranchers and tribes and forest products companies and landowners downstream than the efforts that went on in the climate. This is what needs to happen now. So i'm going to give you an example of something that the obama administration tried to do and we got as far as a pilot that was approved through congress and it was something called power. Plus so in appalachia where economic coal mining been. Well it's been declining in its economic value for many years and it's competing with the powder river basin for example in wyoming on the production of coal. And so how do you deal with dramatic challenges with pollution in those communities where the water is toxic because of a drainage people have no economic opportunities because they were dependent on that coal mining their community safe to live in so it becomes a you know an equity issue in terms of the communities that are damaged and the coal miners have no work and so power plus said. Let's unlock the money. That's already sitting in the us treasury for mine reclamation and put these miners to work in reclaiming the land taking those coal refuse piles that are both steep in and sloughing often causing landslides but also leaching toxins in some places just in a hundred or two hundred feet from a person's backyard and take those coal refuse piles and move them into the pits where they came from and layer them with lime to neutralize the acid and allow the soils to do their natural filtration while putting those miners to work. So i went out on one of these jobs sites where we were putting minors to work. Reclaiming lands using funds that have been contributed over the years to mine reclamation that have not been used and universally the minor said to me. We don't expect our kids to work in this industry. We appreciate having the opportunity to clean up these lands but our kids who've been educated thanks to our ability to mine coal over. The years are now choosing different professions. And they just need a bridge to get to their own retirement and to do it in a way that reclaims their communities. So i mean that's one small illustration of a project that would align the interests of minors with the interests of environmentalists with the long term economic prospects of a community that by cleaning itself up can open itself up to other forms of economic activity whether that's development or outdoor recreation tourism and so on and the same can be true Can be said for oil gas. Where you've got i mean potentially millions but certainly documented tens of thousands with an expectation of hundreds of thousands of abandoned oil and gas wells. We don't even know where they are or you know. We do know that they're leaking methane. We do know they're polluting water. We do know that they're causing spills and we've not even begun to clean them up so the bills that that applied oil oil drilling also apply to clean cleanup. Yes exactly exactly you know. You need to plug and abandon them well. But you've got to plug and abandon it. You can't just leave it. Leaking oil and gas into the atmosphere and potentially saltwater into the water supply systems but that's happening throughout oil and gas country. No matter where it is. I want to ask about the other challenges facing the interior department. In the biden administration in particular the attrition the loss of career scientists of career land managers of bureau of land management headquarters and b. m. brass getting forced out of dc and and a handful landing in grand junction. But not many how number one from what you can tell. How severe is that problem and number two. How do you go about addressing it. Well there has been a problem for some time which has been just marching down the track and people have known about it which is the aging of the federal workforce any inevitable brain drain. That comes with retirements of people who are really exceptionally knowledgeable in their areas of work. Whether that is science or you know energy policy Biodiversity sciences the national park service interpretation. You name it. Huge percentages of the federal workforce are eligible for retirement. Now and i think if they Did not feel supported by the prior administration. It is awfully tough to try and spend four years with your head down if you don't feel valued for the work that you do. And i think it's fair to say that many of the career staffers did not feel valued. I think that was a challenge. When i got into interior that you know it's been kind of open season on public employees for a long time. Maybe even starting More than a decade ago. So it's difficult to reenergize workforce and convince them you really have their back as a political appointee where they have seen the pendulum swing back and forth so we have a problem. There are very good knowledgeable public servants. Who have chosen to stick with this profession despite a the undermining of their work. They're still there. And i think you will see them. Emerge and i think you will see them be delighted to mentor next generation. But what we really need in. The federal workforce is is the next generation young people to recognize that. There is no better place to have an impact throughout your career than in public service. Because the influence that you have to make a difference in people's lives not just now but for future generations is profound. There is nothing in this coming from a businessperson right Forty years of my career in business and there is nothing as impactful as what you can do through government in service to the public but it's hard and so. I think that what we need to do is take those who remain. And perhaps some who've left that will are willing to come back to accelerate the mentorship of the young generation and also lean into their skills around technology in artificial intelligence and the further knowledge that we've had around our climate and our planet and put that to good work in service of where we need to go not just for now but for future generations you were secretary during the takeover of armed takeover of the malheur national wildlife refuge We saw a number of guilty pleas but then a number of leaders including ammon bundy be acquitted for their role there and then we saw many of these same groups like the oath keepers and the three percenters. Show up at the armed insurrection at the capital this month. Are you concerned that those same groups those same impetuses may maybe those same people are going to be back trying to cause trouble takeover threaten public. Land's again yes. These are extremely dangerous. People with a mystifying ideology. Frankly it began not at me. National wildlife refuge. My experience began. I'm one of the worst times of my tenure as secretary of the interior in that was standoff in bunkerville nevada when the blm was attempting to round up cliven bundy because he had been grazing illegally on federal lands and not paying any grazing fees for over twenty years. And i can't tell you how many ranchers have come to me. And said he does not represent us so the ranchers i mean so the the blm went to round up the cattle and cliven bundy and his sons basically called out the militias. That were now familiar with and a hat. Standoff that if we had not backed down which was really not popular decision with our own law enforcement people but if we had not backed down. I feared that we would have had tremendous bloodshed on the order of ruby ridge. Idaho from years ago waco texas because they're itching for a fight and to have that circumstance result in very few consequences the followed by the me national wildlife refuge takeover which who thinks you can just take over a federal property for forty four days and it's okay and yet. The laws are weak in terms of punishments. Certainly i think they're. In retrospect there were errors made in the prosecution of that case but it emboldened these groups and until we a dish out the consequences that they deserve for this kind of activity. We are just emboldening. A group of well armed ideologically extreme people That will continue to provide a domestic terrorism problem until they are brought to justice And hopefully given an opportunity to learn about the error in the assumptions that they're making so this is a very very risky time for the united states. What we all witnessed on january. Sixth is just a small taste of what this group i think is interested. Frankly in dishing out. You mentioned ruby ridge and waco and obviously the shadow of those incidents loomed large over over both bunkerville and malaya. How do you balance then. That fear of triggering more bloodshed versus The lack of consequences leading to these folks being more emboldened. How'd you swing that pendulum. Back so there are consequences without just saying open. Fire them all well. One of the things that happened right after maller was resolved and frankly the fbi made a judgment that the best thing to do was to wait. These guys out was to not go in and give them the satisfaction of a firefight but the weight amount and you know others who are more familiar with. This can decide whether that was a smart idea or not. There was not bloodshed. And i deeply appreciate that. There was the incident with In a person that has become a martyr. Yeah but that was not on on In the national wildlife refuge. So i got a call from senator jeff merkley from oregon saying sally what what could i do as a lawmaker to strengthen laws so that this is not okay and i think that that is the right question to ask if we have a circumstance where a capital can be vandalized in people are not an end. People have died right where they are not brought to justice. That will embolden people. We have got to be aggressive in prosecution and if the laws are inadequate to prosecute than we have to change those laws so that people are held accountable. And that was one of my lessons. I would say from both bunkerville and maller is yes have laws. But if you can't enforce them what good are they and in some cases laws aren't good enough. So of cliven bundy who's continuing to graze. His cattle on federal public lands without paying a dime can continue to get away with it. Then you know what good are those laws and we have got to be willing to enforce them and stand behind them and the penalties have to match the of greaves behaviors. That we have witnessed i. I've heard some. Rumblings of of members of congress may be looking at strengthening. The taylor grazing act particularly in light of the hamid family getting their grazing privileges restored by secretary bernhardt on his way out the door. Is that something you think congress should be looking at. Yes you know. The oil and gas leasing the mineral leasing the mining law of eighteen. Seventy two. the taylor grazing act. The these are really. I mean many decades old laws and in the case of grazing when you look at the numbers in if you have a a great piece of federal property which has water and strong capacity to support animals that you're probably paying and some cases like one twentieth of what you'd pay if it was private land and maybe one tenth of what you'd pay it was state land that is land owned by the public in the public tax. Payer is kidding screwed. And the same is true. With the mineral inactive eighteen seventy two basically is no royalty going back to the public and it's true with a lot of the oil and gas leasing programs were the royal low And not reflective of what you'd be paying on private land or on state lands so yes i think it needs to be reviewed There will be a hue and cry against it. And i certainly would prioritize things like oil and gas and mining ahead of grazing. Because i know it's a hard scrabble existence for those who are grazing on on federal lands. But it's certainly something that needs to review during your time. As secretary you spent quite a bit of time meeting with talking with tribal leaders across the country. We saw that consultation. Obviously drop off tremendously over the last four years after that. How will just reflect if you could on the nomination of deb holland to be the next interior secretary. How meaningful is that to have the first native american secretary of the interior very very meaningful for tribes in particular to know that there is someone who's overseeing apartment which you know for more than a century has been viewed by tribes as being no the the main agency that was not upholding the trust and treaty obligations to them. So it's it's beyond symbolic. It's someone with lived experience that knows the consequences of those early actions and how important it is to to reverse them so you know. I'm i am fully supportive of carbon holland's nomination and doing everything. I can to be helpful to her and and others in the department as she gets up to speed because it is an extraordinarily steep learning curve as i learned coming from the business community and having to get up to speed myself but let me say that the times that i spent with tribal leaders were some of the most rewarding times i had an interior. And what my team would tell. You is early on. I said please do not over schedule me. So that i can get to know the people that i'm visiting with whether that is career staff at the department of the interior or visiting a public land site or going and visiting a tribe and i said particularly with tribes. I need to be respectful. And i need to have time to listen. And even though the schedules very full you know didn't lend itself to spending as much time as i would have liked. The time that i did spend was was was moving and powerful. What i came to begin to appreciate was the deep connections to the land in the landscapes and has now been pretty well documented by people in academia and others that the best managed landscapes in the world in terms of biodiversity and sustainability are those that continued to be overseen by the indigenous communities whether that's in borneo or the amazon or in the united states or in canada or in mexico and central america. So i came to appreciate that. And i think deb holland will understand that and one of the things that we did. While i was an interior is really clarify. What tribal consultation meant in. It did not mean. Just check the box. And unfortunately i think we went back to that. It meant listen and engage. And i would love in this next chapter to see deeper engagement in public. Land management with tribal communities in their homelands or public lands that are in their ancestral homelands. Help us understand through their thousands of years of observation needs to be done in order to make those landscapes stained and not just for now but for generations to come especially at this time of challenge with climate change and biodiversity loss. We need to listen. And i think depp holland will get that which is great but i think this administration also biden administration will work hard to say. How do we do more engaging tribes in the management of the lance that are under federal government and stewardship in the last couple minutes. We have. I just love to hear you. Reflect back on some of your travels as secretary. Obviously getting to see america's public land's has got to be the biggest perk of being the interior secretary. What moments on your travels as secretary do you look back on the most fondly or which moments changed you. The most certainly the opportunity to visit in gapes would tribes were incredibly moving and powerful national monument which of course trump shrunk radically was an opportunity to visit with tribal leaders. Actually out between the bears ears beauts in an area that was sacred to five different tribes. Who have not always gotten along and their Their use of the landscape differed. I mean their ancestors. May well each other those that pass through or more eck and those who had settled and to be there with them together to feel the reverence the they had for the lands to sit in a teepee around a circle and listen to them talk about their connections to this place was incredibly powerful and that sense will never leave me. I also met with those from that region tribal communities who were not supportive of a monument designation into listen to the reasons why and honestly the reasons why were not something that they had to worry about in terms of traditional uses but they were based on some misinformation but also enabled us to sharpen the language to make sure their interests were protected too. So you i'd say that the the announcement that we made around the decisions decision not to list the greater sage grouse on the endangered species act with four governor democrat to republican with the audubon society with ranchers was also really powerful and one rancher duane coons from nevada got up and talked about three generations of ten years. Ten year olds was his dad. Who developed a deep distrust for the federal government when he rounded up cattle to be paid for by the federal government during the great depression and the cattle were slaughtered in front of his is. This is a ten year old. A his son duane Grew up with that profound distrust of government because of his father and yet had seen the cooperative relationships form with land managers on how he could be a better steward through his practice and then his ten year old daughter who would say at that time that her best friend was a scientists from the usgs that had taught her out to prevent the sage gals from getting tangled up in their fences. And how to better job on the land. So it's those personal stories as personal connections that you get that. Were really moving. And i mean i know. We don't have time to go on too long but also say the every a park pass which has been codified now in law as every kid outdoors watching youngsters in nevada red rock national conservation area. Join me in parts of dried scott. We found on the trail that try to figure out what these critters eating or going to the channel islands national park with kids from across the mountains in land of all for whom a were from working families english may have been their first language or their second language with the ranger talking about bringing the endanger channel islands fox back from the brink of extinction going on a boat with these kids because of his every depart us to the channel islands and watching the kids as they actually spotted a fox. I mean how often does that is just extraordinary. So those were just a handful of Many many memorable experiences that will never leave me and the common thread is. It is about listening to each other. It's about paying attention to our landscapes. It's about Sharing knowledge and thinking about the future. So if i can leave you with my favorite quote that i thought of often it is that we don't inherit the earth our ancestors we borrow it from our children. So if we're borrowing this earth from our children what is it that they're going to face in. What can we do about it today. And there's nothing like public service to have an impact And to catalyze discussions in that direction. And i just profoundly hope that We will listen to different points of view and bring people to appreciate each other and develop a shared setbacks in a shared understanding where we need to go former secretary of the interior sally jewel. Thank you so much for your time and especially for your insight today. Really appreciate it. My pleasure erin. Thanks so much for shining a light on these important topics. Well i'll just say that we have been hoping for some time to get secretary jewel on the podcast and that was well worth the wait. Thanks so much to my colleague lauren. Bogarde for making this episode happen and reminder that if you've got someone you think we should have on the landscape drop us a line podcast at western priorities dot org and if you just discovered us please leave us a review on apple podcasts. That's the best way for new listeners. To find us. I'm aaron weiss on behalf of the whole team at the center for western priorities. Thanks for listening

biden administration department of the interior cliven bundy sally jewel aaron weiss center for western Celie jewel america blm forest service fish wildlife Usgs Brosse bunkerville maller president biden congress obama administration epa us treasury wyoming
FTL Digest 2021-02-09

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

26:29 min | 3 weeks ago

FTL Digest 2021-02-09

"Here are the highlights from the latest episode of free talk live visit freetalklive dot com for the full episode so a cleric in the iranian regime told his followers that the covid nineteen vaccination turns people into homosexuals which is punishable by death and iran. I a- tola. i think. That's the top cleric in iran. If i recall correctly a boss to brazilian the outrageous claims tuesday on the social media platform telegram. According to the jerusalem post he said don't go near those who have had the covid vaccination they have become homosexuals to breezy in who lives in the religious capital of kwame and whose followers referred to him as ayatollah has a history of promoting bigotry and false information about western medicine last year to tell. The -tarian burned harrison's manual of medicine in a videotape ceremony claiming that islamic medicine had made such books relevant according to a radio free europe radio liberty broadcasts service like other clerics in the region also to brazilian relates. This is clearly translated. He relates all of these shortcomings to sexuality said a dissident. The clerics in iran are suffering from a lack of knowledge and humanity. Actually his goal is spreading nonsense to try to scare people out of getting vaccinated while the leader of the regime and other officials got the pfizer vaccination and they don't provide it to the people with the excuse that they don't trust the west so the regime leaders got the vaccine. But they're also saying it makes you gay. It's not that different from donald trump and some of the extravagant claims that he's made but americans won't see that what does he would extravagant claims. Just curious off the of my head right okay. But he has certainly made extravagant claims that scare people to death though where he hasn't said no absolutely not. I mean that's not an extravagant claim. That's a grotesque abomination of state. Extravagant claim would be something like. Oh yeah we didn't land on the moon or whatever you know just something. Nonsensical that trump believes mean. He was reach winning some cunanan people at some point so he certainly made some ridiculous allegation. And i gotta say. I miss trump's tweets. I don't think thing okay. He was entertaining. Yeah and joe biden so far has not been entertainingly. I don't care about what they're doing in dc. But i am curious. Like what would trump be saying right now if he still had access to social media about apparently they're like putting him on trial now in the senate so that whole part of the impeachment procedure has begun so unlike. We don't get to hear what he has to say. His lawyer came out and said that he's not getting due process. So we know be saying that. I think that there was a story a long time ago. I mean i. I recall several years ago. Hearing that tesla at least some dealers were accepting it really. So even if the mother company wasn't accepting at the time. I think there was some of the dealers that were well. Hopefully we'll see more and you know chevrolet and all of these other companies beginning to accept crypto-currency. Hey maybe even mcdonalds one day will accept bitcoin. You know i mean you pay pal just came on board late last year. Tesla coming on board tesla's one of the top five corporations in the united states as far as their market cap is so that's bigger than walmart. Tesla's says they're gonna take crypto. That is actually. I mean it's it's not big in the same way in that wal got more locations and more people work for it and that sort of thing but as far as a major company accepting bitcoin. That's probably the largest announcement we've seen so far excellent. I hope it only continues because it's only going to drive the value of bitcoin up because it's becoming more and more useful it is even though it's not that useful in general because we're to buy a fifty thousand dollar car a fifty dollar transaction fee. Isn't that big deal. Yeah no doubt about that. But it's it's still disappointing to see how just expensive these transaction fees are. They were twenty dollars yesterday on bitcoin for next for the what they call the next block which for listeners. That don't know that's to get your bitcoin transaction processed and confirmed within the next ten minutes or so. That's what it costs. Twenty is not steve. Were they going up in pro popularity. Does that mean that. The fees might go lower get higher. They're going to likely get higher. I was mentioning earlier in bundy. Is the son of cliven bundy. Or one of the sons of cliven bundy. That was in the news. Most of the decade ago for having a standoff with the federal government over the bureau of land management then a few years later ammon bundy and some of his crew went and took over the mal. Heure federal wildlife refuge of these events were years at oregon. yes we're years. Apart of believers twenty sixteen when they did them all your wildlife refuge takeover that actually resulted in one man being shot to death by the police in that particular situation and it was fairly dramatic and pretty interesting outrageous. What went on then so. We don't follow the bundy family very closely. But from what. I've heard of them. They sound at least occasionally like fairly principled. Libertarians they support Black lives matter and other cool teens. Code expect principled people to support good to know. I'm glad to hear that Now i don't follow them closely either but i. I am aware that they've been active in this sort of anti masking pro freedom facial freedom. Whatever you wanna call it movement and now the los angeles times is reporting out of idaho which may be where. He's based these days two dozen demonstrators pressed against the emergency room doors screaming to be let in show us a law. They chanted let grandma out one shouted. They had descended on legacy salmon. Creek medical center in vancouver washington the evening of the twenty ninth to protest the quarantine of gail meyer. Seventy four year old patient. They drag the groups like this through the mud as much as they possibly can because they don't wanna actually talk to them and ask them questions they don't want to actually give this guy the opportunity to express himself because the l. a. times like most media outlets is one hundred percent favor of the state sure and whatever the state decree religious actors whatever the state religion decrees which is you know wear a mask respect authorities and that's not what the bundy's are known for or any of these militia groups the existence of these militia groups has always been stated to be to defend ourselves from aggression by the government. I don't think anyone has ever suggested there for anything else. And i don't know if people's rights is particularly a militia group. Exactly i sounds like it's a protest organization. That's way it sounds. I don't know if you've pulled up their website idea but you have to join over in order to access just about anything. I'm going to pull it up on my phone and take a look at. They do have a telegram. So there's that we have the potential for multiple malheur in multiple states in that any moment they could bring hardened far right. Activists often heavily armed into any one event this according to devin burghart the executive director for the institute for research and education on human rights. So they really don't like the idea that these people are armed number one. That really seems to scare these folks. I imagine it would scare the time you spend. It doesn't give me any pause whatsoever. I feel safer when people around me are heavily armed indeed especially if they know what they're doing i did look into the people rights organization and sadly it doesn't seem that they use an app. It looks like they just use a web interface. Oh so it's all done on as reporting where to gather and what's happening. It's cool that there are at now five people in southwestern new hampshire who have signed up really and they're very privacy friendly you have to have signal in order to receive your code to create your account neat and they have a telegram which is always good and i. It's got a messaging system than i have looked into the is supposedly encrypted as well just two other user so i have to say so far. I'm impressed and it sounds like if they want an app they should contact nobody and find a way of implementing cell phone one into this. I know that nobody are co host. Had had the intention of reaching out to that group. So i don't know what status he has reached out to them. I think he wants the app to be like in a usable state. 'cause we inherited for listeners. That don't know cell phone. One is after it was created. Probably like twenty fifteen by actually a listener. Freetalklive virgil the duva and he did an amazing job at making this great little simple easy to use emergency alerts app where you can have your friends. Get the app and then You can all sort of create what they call cells. These aren't terrorist cells there. Peace peace sells going on here. He said he never supported. President trump and he didn't vote in the last two presidential elections in two thousand sixteen. He was in prison awaiting trial in this past november. He didn't see a point. So i mean obviously. He's not your typical. If he's a conservative he ain't. Your typical is definitely closer to libertarian. Based on everything i've seen. He has conservative in contending the twenty or the kobe nineteen death. Toll is massively exaggerated. he said. That trump should've worked harder to keep churches and businesses open nonetheless. He encouraged his followers to go to washington for the now infamous january sixth rally to distribute leaflets and display people's rights banners to recruit more members. He did say that. He condemned the siege on the capital. Was that because it was pointless and it didn't achieve anything or is was some some angry republicans role playing as protesters. Apparently he was also arrested. According to a photograph here in this article in the idaho state house in boise on august twenty six th of last year was arrested and wheeled out in an office chair or what appears to be a wheelchair here so maybe doing a little civil disobedience. It looked like not sure what that was about. Bundy is carrying out a family tradition. He is the fourth of fourteen children in a mormon family. Grew up on a nevada ranch. Seventy four year old father cliven became a hero to extreme libertarians. In the west wing. Extreme libertarian that just sounds cool when they say it like that. Bundy was arrested during a traffic. Stop outside of the refuge and eventually tried on weapons and conspiracy charges a militant who fled. The stop was shot and killed the name. Forget what it was offhand. But they're just referring to him as a militant it by the man who fled. The stop was not a danger to anyone. He did not shoot at anyone but the cops murdered him right there for running away. That's correct in a startling verdict. In october of two thousand sixteen bundy and other defendants were acquitted by jurors who found the federal prosecutors had failed to make their case. Wow yeah it was an amazing Verdict a series of verdicts more than one documentary about this because it sounds like something. I'd wanna want a good question. I don't know the families. Aura of invincibility only grew when a judge declared a mistrial criminal conspiracy case against bundy his brother ryan who we interviewed and their father. For the two thousand fourteen nevada ranch standoff saying government lawyers had suppressed evidence the cattle outside of bunkerville nevada continue to graze on public land despite more than one million in unpaid fees bundy kept a low profile back in idaho where he managed rental properties and restored vintage vehicles with his children but the pandemic and resistance to the government telling people what to do set the stage for his return to activism. I love you can't keep a good activist down. You know once you've once you've stood up for freedom you don't ever want to cower again. Yeah once you've told the state no you want to keep telling it. No that's right. These government bureaucrats think that they should just be able to keep their jobs separate from their home lives. They think that we should respect the idea that they should have privacy and their family lives in their personal homes and so on that they're off duty after five o'clock in the afternoon i will allow that if they're laws will stop going into effect when they're at home right when they're like. Oh no. i'm not the governor. Now i'm just chilling with my family. Now okay then you're laws. Don't apply right now. Yeah as soon as they stop arresting people in their homes as soon as they stop ruining people's lives by arresting peaceful people for not harming others than i will respect them. Leave him alone in their home. Stand near people's homes just when they get a piece of paper from themselves saying that it's okay correct. Yeah man in a robe writes a piece of paper and then men with guns come in and ruin people's lives shoot. Dogs shoot innocent peaceful people into cribs. They shoot cats. I just look that up since you're here or are they basically cats to what possible threat is a cat to a human being well. They've shot caged dogs before. So i mean what possible threat could that have been. I'm not any more. The more this discussion goes on so people's rights continued to expand establishing hundreds of chapters that bundy organized with the aim of being able to dispatch ten protesters to a seen in ten minutes. One hundred in one hundred minutes two thousand one thousand minutes. Hey daily digest listeners. This is rally blake. I enjoy free. Talk live but i know you do too but finding time to listen to an entire episode isn't always easy so i produced the daily digest. I appreciate those of you who have supported me on patriotic and sent bitcoin to me to thank me for producing these digests for those who wish to support me on patriotic visit patriot dot com slash c. Art blake eight sex if he wished to send bitcoin visit patriot. Dot com slash. Cr blake eight six for those details. That's patriot dot com slash. Cr blake eight six. Thank you i Heard earlier today. That That particularly i mean the most insane people in my opinion. And i've been called about this for over your on. How insane the less has been becoming. They're really angry that beat tampa bay buccaneers Beat the kansas city chiefs over the weekend and not because not because they like the not because they are the better team not because they Support the oxyde in any in any measurable amount more than than the kansas city chiefs. But only because tom. who is the quarterback. I guess who who i guess. Some point got traded to the buccaneers Because he's white and and the quarterback for the chiefs is black and they're mad that the white quarterback beat the black quarterback. They're really offended about. Where are you seeing this. I haven't seen this well well. There's there's a twitter storm. That's been kicking up Among some of the blue checkmark book politics morons out there Including commentators like lisa hendricks and michael smith michael. Highly the end of the nfl. Any of these people are. I wouldn't say that this reflects on all leftists just seems like you saw some crazy people talking on twitter. Presumably there's black and white people on both teams. You read off some names from people that i've never heard of who sounds like they're saying some pretty stupid things. If you want to find morons on twitter just search for double masking plenty there. I think it's more interesting. Nobody's wearing masks in tampa all the sudden. I have a friend from and she lived in italy of twenty twenty but she just moved to florida and she put posted a video of herself at at like a club or a bar in tampa like the night of the super bowl in. She was panning around the room. It was just a bunch of young people all really close reach other dancing and talking and drinking and none of them like there was like one mask and the entire video i i. I was stunned when i saw the ending of the super bowl. Because it watch it at work and the number of people not wearing masks in their boots and they mingled and they you know celebrated with people after the game. It was encouraging to see so few people wearing masks. I remember remarking at that moment. I bet this is already going viral on twitter from people complaining about the fact that they're not wearing masks. That's what i expect people to be upset about. Not the fact that tom brady is white and the other guy was black. That is of no consequence whatsoever. Except to people who obsessive race and people who obsess over people who obsess over race. Yeah i'm just rolling through here looking at people talking about Double masking and how proud they are about it. Definitely virtue signaling. Our money explains this rather well as you found. Yeah then was the one who suggested searching for double masking in the first place and he points out on his twitter which is at vr mani. He says that double masking is a thing. Helps you understand that you are dealing with a religious phenomenon. When masks become mandated as they are in a lot of the united states right now and elsewhere in the world wearing a mask is no longer a signal of church of woke membership therefore the second mask must be added to signal willing participation. And indeed when you see the people with the double masks what you'll see in a lot of cases is that they will purposely wear contrasting masks so they'll have like a white mask and then over overtop or over top of a black mask or vice versa or something like that that way. You know that they're wearing masks. does it. Make it clear right because if they were wearing to the exact same type of mask. You'd have to look carefully. You'd have to really look at them to see if they were wearing masks but many might not know how much they care right. So it's important for them to signal that and Yeah so this person on twitter. Says i can't believe some of y'all aren't triple masking. Yes and this is the these are people being totally serious. I've always been double masking sometimes. Even triple masking. i prefer no masking about. They weren't about they've just been doing more mask and they're like always been triple asking last month at the hospital protests in vancouver washington kelly stuart the people's rights coordinator for the area narrated a livestream video bundy's youtube account that ultimately attracted more than seventy thousand views. The video shows a protester trying to pry open the locked. Double doors and a deputy sprang chemical irritant in his face. The protesters cheered when the hospital released. Meyer whose tearful daughter wheeled her out and helped her into a van freedom. A man yelled stewart. A longtime bundy compatriot berated law enforcement for siding with the hospital instead of protesters. She said that right wing activists who joined back the blue rallies last summer waved american flags with blue lines had been duped quote. We're starting to learn your actually the standing army. Our founders warned us against there just dangerous targets. She said we're having a blue line flag burning party tonight better late than never for sure. I love the say. Credit credit. To richard reid the author here. That's a great way to end. That story That stand that's the ending that they're going to burn the blue line flags that's awesome idea. Either but i don't want to encourage the blue line. Flag people buying them in order to burn them similarly. They already had them. There was a fella named watch was canadian. Dug in deep in history and All this huxley and those fellas and the brainwashing. The the media. The sports is intended to be a distraction talking about nineteen eighty-four. That would be brave. You know similar allen. Watch for canadian. And he used to have a website and then he went over to england and read the history books. The books not on the computer read the books Alan watts kim. Delic guy i mean. Isn't alan watts like a psychedelic Sort of in the background there mike. It's the same. It's the same name but a different person. Different guy okay. Well there's no doubt that the sports is definitely the part of the bread and circuses right to keep people distracted and keep the big. I don't know about that being the sole purpose on that means it's good to have some things that distract you from your daily life now and then. I talked to jeremy from library over this weekend. They had the porcupine day festivities in new hampshire on saturday. Actually bonnie and i both went to. I took the night off from the show to go to this. This was the five year celebration at the free state. Project held to sort of call a closed their five-year move window because that started in february of two thousand sixteen. So it is now. That doesn't mean the free state project is is over to continue recruiting people to to migrate here. As as i think that they should do. I used to think that they should shut down. But they convinced They pretty persuasive that they've been doing really well in the last couple of years. Anyway jeremy Kaufman who's the founder of library. Which is a decentralized blockchain based video hosting service which is an awesome thing by the way l. d. r. y. dot com. He was there. And i did speak with him. They are in the testing process of doing streaming library. And so we're sort of on the shortlist of shows that they they may be coming to win. Get kicked off right. I would hope that they wouldn't kick us off because they came to us a long time ago about librarian. Free talk live on librarian free keen on library so it seems like a no brainer that we should also be streaming to To their new website. Which is called odyssey o. D. y. s. e. It's tough out there for a lot of radio station owners. Although it's probably even tougher for the big mega corporations because they already had huge debt loads that their companies were struggling to pay off prior to it they already companies like iheartmedia which used to be known as clear channel and cumulus media these two of the largest companies in america both of them have gone through bankruptcy proceedings in the last several years last few years as the government gives them money to stay alive. That's a good question honestly. I haven't heard about that happening. It wouldn't surprise me if they have for whatever reason. I haven't seen the news on that. The mentions that at some point it says they filed for bankruptcy protection or something. I don't know exactly what that means but it probably has a help. Talk media that for the last year. One of the only things that we've really had to talk about has been the pandemic otherwise news has been extraordinarily slow throughout the last year. I hate it and people are probably sick of talking about it. Sick of hearing about it. i know it. Daily commutes have been disrupted by. Stay at home orders and then you work from home. Culture wiping out part of radios lucrative quote drivetime audiences unclear whether those listeners will return after the pandemic subsides and traffic jams return. Yes that is true. I saw the numbers about That npr was publishing that their radio listenership dropped by twenty five percent. Facebook they. They are really in a decline these days man. I've looked at the calculator during thing but since the first ban in october not the ipad but the abandoned october shortly after the news about my campaign went viral. I have been unbanned exactly thirteen days. Are you being right now. Yes what's the latest one for This time i don't know man. I mentioned something about bitcoin. Okay and i put hashtag bitcoin and then to be safe. You would think eli. Musk can do it then. Suddenly i got banned for a within seconds got banned for a posted i had made on december the fourth more than a month before So i don't know about. I don't recall okay but that's suspicious. The last time. I was banned. It was because of something related to bitcoin and immediately afterward. I got hit with another thirty day ban. So it's it's hard to even be upset. Hey you can just do other things with your time. I never used facebook much anyway. Because every time i post i ended up getting bad no matter what it is that i posted stupid. I don't know why i keep doing it. Except it's such a miniscule thing to me that hey if it works might as well say something there and then have just like being abused i. i don't know not buy into so the financial pressures on humulus. Iheart make them unlikely to invest in the one thing that might save political talk radio local personalities. I tend to agree. I think the best thing they could do to save talk radio would be to actually stop censoring people to actually created a platform that is known for being friendly to free speech and letting people speak their actual opinions. We do that here we do. But we're one of the only ones who do have and we're not run by cumulus and iheartradio recently. Hold on i wanna give credit where credit's due. We are heard on cumulus in iheartmedia stations. So i mean they're not the majority of the stations that were heard on but we are heard on several of them. Sure so that's good. We're not owned by them. In the sense that and because cumulus was in the news recently for telling its talk show hosts that they were not allowed to say. Stop the steel on the air right. And so that was like the first time in my history of working in radio where i've ever heard a corporation coming down and telling its talk show host that they cannot cover a certain subject. That's pretty scary stuff. So it's been noted that sports talk. Radio has fared relatively well with hometown personalities. Yacking about local teams but hiring. Local hosts is an expensive proposition. You just heard highlights from the latest episode of free talk live you can download full episodes. Subscribe to our podcast. Listen live and war. All for free at freetalklive dot com.

Tesla cliven bundy iran tola jerusalem post tarian Cr blake cunanan bundy ammon bundy Creek medical center gail meyer devin burghart institute for research and edu twitter Freetalklive virgil nevada Bundy
Bundyville Revealed

Reveal

51:35 min | 1 year ago

Bundyville Revealed

"From the center for investigative reporting m._p._r. X. is real. I'm l. Let this month to to mass. Shootings happened within hours of each other over. Thirty people were killed. Afterwards people asked familiar question. How could this be happening reading today. We're going to be tackling that question by looking at how a group of people with extremist ideas embraced violence to get their way and how their beliefs leafs spread and in some ways become more dangerous. The story takes us back to january two thousand sixteen. The sun is shining in the sky but the air is frigid in a small oregon town man in a cowboy hat and a thick winter flannel climbs up a snow bank at the edge of a grocery store parking lot and calls out to a crowd of his supporters. I'm asking you to follow me and go to the merrier national wildlife refuge and we're gonna make a harsh stand. That's ammon bundy. He's short speech on that snow. Bank kicked off a six week armed standoff with the federal government in a remote bird sanctuary in the middle of winter. It's crucial social. They you understand what's going on here. What this issue is truly about. It's about our federal government taking over private property. This is bundy's second armed standoff. He and his supporters believed that the federal government has no right to public lands and should turn them over to the states amens father cliven cliven bundy had for decades us public land to graze his cattle but refused to pay the federal fees in twenty fourteen. The federal government came to collect elect and that ended in the first armed standoff with the bundys at their ranch in bunkerville nevada. We take you back to the standoffs because they lead directly to our story today. How anti-government groups and individuals surface to support the bundy's didn't go away when the bundy's did instead over over the past few years people within those groups have become more emboldened and willing to use violence to get what they want today. We're teaming up with the podcast has bundy ville produced by oregon public broadcasting and long rates to see how the violence that started with the bundys has spread bonnevilles hosts. Lisa tilly joins me now now. Elliot hey has gone so before we get to season to remind us what happened to the bundy's after those two standoffs came to an end both of those ended ended with these trials that a lot of critics would say the government botched so with the nevada case. They ended in a mistrial in oregon. They ended in acquittals for for the bundy brothers and their co-defendants so what's motivating the bundy's. How did they get to the point of the first standoff. I think to understand the bundy family family you kind of have to understand that where they come from. There's a real kind of anti-government sentiment that a lot of people share you can look to <hes> when the mormons came west in eighteen hundreds <hes> part of the reason they did that was to get away from the federal government but then the government came to them and sort of started this idea that a lot of mormons in that area feel that they were persecuted for their religion by the government so all of this kind of led to cliven and bundy's standing off with the government in two thousand fourteen saliha how those religious beliefs cut of drive this this confrontation with the federal government the bundy's hold a pretty specific set of fringe religious beliefs that a lot of mormons would not agree with and in fact the mainstream mormon church in salt lake city wouldn't agree with so so my reporting led me to this thing called the white horse prophecy which is basically this kind of urban legend among mormon communities that that that some people believe joseph smith the prophet of the church told <hes> early mormons that they would settle in the rocky mountains and that one day the u._s. Constitution solution would hang by a thread and it would be up to the mormon people to save that from ruin now. The church in salt lake doesn't think this is actually a real prophecy but the the bundy family does and a lot of other people in these kind of anti-government communities also believe that they believe that their fight against the government is them actually saving being the constitution from ruin so where do the bundy's motivations and beliefs overlap with other groups that you've been tracking sense. If you look at the the anti-government anti-government movement you might remember things like ruby ridge and the waco standoff with the branch davidians and both of those events ended and people dying hang at the hands of the government a lot of those were kids so the anti-government groups use those instances as recruitment tools times when they can say look look the federal government will come after people who live differently or do things their own way and they kind of turn a blind eye to the laws that were being broken and by those people involved in ridge in waco so those events really informed cliven bundy and his belief that the government was after people so then when they came him to collect his grazing fees he was seeing it as just the next chapter of ruby ridge and waco but more recent turning point happened at the second bundy standoff there was a shooting of one of the leaders of the occupation and that's going on to inspire people to this day yeah that man that was killed during the occupation was a guy named la voie finicky so during the occupation authorities had orchestrated a traffic stop in a rural area wi- with no cell reception where they could easily arrest the leaders of the occupation so he pulled over these two cars and they arrest ammon bundy arrest several other people but lavoix finicky <hes> decided to drive away from that traffic stop and actually tried to blow through a roadblock drive around it into the snow and then he he jumped out of the car all of that was caught on tape and you narrate for us in the first season of bundy ville the scene picks up right after the voi- finnick jumps out of his car and warning. This is tape of a police shooting. Someone fires two shots that hit the truck. He stumbles through knee-deep snow. It keeps shouting. His hands are up at first then he reaches for his jacket. Pocket inside is loaded handgun. He he puts his hands up again and he reaches hands up reach. Finally police do shoot him. He never managed to grab the gun. So investigators released this video and in two different vantage points one was aerial real footage from a law enforcement drawn. The other was taken by smartphone by people inside the cab of the truck so watching that video you see everything unfold. I'd like you there. How did this incident add more fuel to the fire for the anti-government movement well. The response was almost immediate. <hes> shortly after the shooting a memorial popped up at the snowbank where people who supported the bundy's in the anti-government movement talked about it like it was a murder or an assassination or kind this carefully orchestrated hit <hes> by the government on on a member of the patriot movement even though it was so clear from that footage that you saw these two angles and he saying you're going to have to shoot shoot me that that it was unjustified police shooting so in his death i really found in my months even years of investigation that it it becomes really intertwined in with the militia groups in these anti-government groups that showed up at the bundy's standoffs and it became this target for their anger and that's where you pick up with season two tracking those other groups tells a little about them like who they are and what are they doing sure at both of the bundy's high profile standoffs you saw groups like the oath keepers which is one of the largest most well-known militias across the country came to their side. You saw another militia group called the three percenters chapters chapters from nearby states coming to their side on my reporting. I started to see these other threats picking up of white supremacy and violence in these ideologies that had been there long before these two standoffs. I think it's important to note that groups like the oath keepers were actually in charlottesville taking and the side of the old rate during the protests that happen there yeah and i think if it these are groups that generally wouldn't be very fired up about ranching rightly the bundy's sort of provided a great platform to fight the government and that's often. I think what the takeaway that my reporting has found is that it's it has very little to do with the the constitution has very little to do with ranching oftentimes is just looking for new ways to fight off the government and to kind of force <hes> a a belief system like what we saw it at charlottesville on display that's lee host of the podcast series bundy ville so how does that belief system mm-hmm inspire violence when we come back lee investigates that by heading to the scene of a bombing in the fateh mcconnell explosive. That's coming up on reveal from the center for investigative. Reporting impe are ex <music> you from the center for investigative reporting in p. r. x. viz is reveal ville. I'm outlet today. Were teaming up with the creators of the podcast bundy ville from oregon public broadcasting and long rates their second season dropped a couple of weeks ago and they're investigating some acts of domestic terror that connected to the bundy's supporters season two begins with a bombing in the summer of twenty sixteen that i bet you never heard of a warning before we get started. This story contains some violent scenes his money ville host lisa tilly panetta is this gravelly town on the nevada side of the border with utah about three hours north of las vegas a desert outpost that was founded in the eighteen sixty s by mormon pioneers panetta is god country and such a western cliche that i literally watched tumbleweed roll down the middle tolls street not much happens here but that wasn't the case on july thirteenth two thousand sixteen nine one one. What is your emergency. Hello ma'am ma'am cake for me. Okay and i i can barely hear. You said he was gonna kill you. He said he's calling explosives. You can't are you away from the home. Mm-hmm tiffany cluff was inside her house with her three daughters. When a man came to the door said he was going to blow her house up she should get the kids and leave and demand then lit the fuse on the bomb he'd put inside. The house walked to his car. Got inside lit another bomb and shot himself in the head and then everything blew up <music> shrapnel went everywhere curving in long arcs over the town just down the street. The county sheriff's black black smoke and a mushroom cloud billowing into the sky just a moment but i do need conditional information from the okay here. Also she cooks. We have one dispatcher time. She calls back in jail any book it right now. In your nine hundred starts going crazy. All all all nine lines all administrative. I just couldn't y'all that's lincoln county sheriff jerry lee. He lives down the street. He had no idea what was going on a who was involved but tiffany cluff. She knew the bomber guy who came with glenn jones came into your your house up our house cheerfully was standing in his yard with his dog when it happened so he yanked his dog inside grab the keys to who is patrol rig and drove toward the chaos and i literally felt that in my chest i felt the concussion in my chest then i could see the russian cloud coming up over the earth in the world. I could hear the power <music>. This was the last place that anyone expected a bomb to go off. Tiffany kalev recognize the bomber but no one else had any idea what was going on it was sheriff lease job to respond and figure it out so i grabbed the troll rig and by the time i got to my patrol car. The second explosion happened in the more he told us about it. The crazier the story got we pulled up and of course people from the community were already pulling vehicles in. We actually had to weave through cars that get into the to where the houses and we waved as stop. Stop stop. You're over body parts. I said what you run around with body parts and that's what they said look over there. Look over there settle eggs from the belt down lanes the road the first bomb blew up the house of tiffany and her husband josh cluff. They were nurses in town and lived there with their kids. Josh was in home when it happened in the rest of the family escaped just in time. The second bomb was in a car park next to the house and the man inside the bomber was glenn jones. A former nurse who used to work with josh jones was the only person hurt in the bombing but when sheriff lee pulled up to the scene he had no way of knowing that it was absolute mayhem like so there's body parts everywhere lee is also the town's coroner and when he pulled up to the scene of the bombing he thought his top priority was identifying. Whoever got hurt you can't really identify someone by just their legs so he started looking for the rest of the body eighty and we did not actually find the over torso which is what we needed for identification. I don't care about the. I mean do care but that's not why i need i need. I need legs. I mean i need fingerprints. I need dental records any that type of stuff to be able to identify somebody. It took investigators about fourteen hours to find the top half of glenn jones when they did. He wasn't laid out on his back back and easy to identify. He was a tree in the neighbor's yard. Ours it is but even more bizarre is zet when they found the body and how these strange tattoos on it during the corners investigation he was identified by a couple of ways he we were able to get fingerprints were able to get some some dental and <hes> crazy enough tattooed on his chest said d._n._r. Which do not resuscitate and the phone number for the victim of the house is phone number very bizarre stupid question. That's my producer. Ryan has when you guys saw the phone number tattooed. Did you call the number. It's a really good question. I think we looked at up our system along with <hes> <music>. Ask about glenn jones and they'll say they knew him. Nice sky blew up a house. One time it was strange and sad more than one panic and tells me they wouldn't want to speculate about why a bombing occurred in their town and then offer an opinion anyway for the most part people think the bomb could have been allowed messy expression of workplace grievance between glenn jones and josh cluff josh at one time was glenn's boss at the local hospital and they were good friends glenn even helped josh build his house in pennock but several months before the bombing glenn leftist job at the hospital around the same time he also lost his nursing license for mishandling morphine so people think maybe glenn blamed. Josh share flea tells me within hours of the bombing. It became an f._b._i. Investigation we also had the bomb squad and everything from las vegas. They brought up cadaver sniffing dogs. I mean they brought auto the robot. That was the whole thing i mean. There's a big show the next day all the f._b._i. Told me when asked for comment was that it's quote the policy of the f._b._i. Not to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation it was clear nobody in town could really answer my questions and outside of panetta. Not many people people know about it. The national news didn't cover it. This was a bombing on american soil and sure no one was hurt except the bomber himself but it's hard to imagine if he'd been brown or black or anyone else but a white guy that this would have been a non story. It's only after i left panetta that i found a possible answer answer that pointed to something beyond petty disagreement between coworkers so after visiting aca. I started calling around to try to get answers. I found out that glen jones got some training in field artillery during his eleven years in the army national guard hard but he never saw combat. I also learned that he had been living in kingman arizona in an r._v. Park right before the bombing happened after the bombing coming. The kingman police department rated glen jones's r._v. They found bomb-making materials inside and a few spiral bound journals with jones's name on the cover inside one. There were diagrams for bomb. One detective said quote the entries indicated that glenn jones had been approached by subject identified as josh who offered to pay him to construct an explosive device. The intended target that officer rhode was identified as fourth of july b._l._m. Mm field office. That's the bureau of land management the same federal government agency that got into the initial dispute with the bundys but here's where things get murky erkki because the fourth of july came in went that year nothing happened and by july thirteenth johnson decided instead to target josh cluff. Here's sheriff carefully. I truly still to this day. Don't truly know what the victim and the suspects true relationship was. I know there were friends at one point and they were very good friends. I wondered if there is a chance jones or cluff might have had some beef with the federal government some reason they would have wanted to bomb a beal field office. It turned out there was it goes back to the occupation of the malheur national wildlife refuge oregon when one of the group's leaders lavoix finicky vinnicombe was shot and killed. We'll try to avoid that police barricade in two thousand sixteen when the bomb went off in nevada at the club home finicky was already dead ed and the patriot movement was talking about him as a martyr proof of a tyrannical government murdering americans everywhere you look in the patriot movement. You'll see vinnicombe cattle brand on hats shirts tattoos belt buckles flags bumper stickers. People write songs about him the about accountable own. He's become the figurehead of movement in their report in kingman. Police wrote that there is an entry in jones's notebook indicating that lavoix finn comes death was a possible motive for the planned attack on the beale office and that quote josh is the cousin of lavoie vinnicombe. I was able to confirm the josh. Cliff is related to finish them but that's not proof. He was involved loved so i asked sheriff. Lee was coffee angry at the government over his cousin's death. He said he couldn't say but he told us a story about a time way before the the bombing but we did see an anti-government side to cluff. He didn't want to give us too many details since it involves someone having a medical crisis but the gist was that at the hospital ospital sheriff s cleft help give medical attention to someone couldn't decide to ask for themselves and cleft wasn't having it yet really angry started yelling being a little bit of an eye opening about how josh felt about government overreach. It's unclear whether cluff and jones were working together to bomb the beal building at first and something went wrong or jones working alone and decided to bomb tom clubhouse for some other reason so what happened between the two of them. Cluff is never given any straight answers about jones or lavoix or bomb at office shortly. After the bombing the clubs packed up would few belongings. They could salvage the move to idaho again. Police have not said that the family family has done anything wrong only confirmed that they did in fact got in touch with us on facebook and ask for an interview finally after few messages ages. He wrote back quote. We're just happy and not trying to dig up the past months later. I found an email forum when i reached out again and i tried one more time to get cleft to say something i send him the evidence i had nast whether the bombing was about his cousin voi- finnigan so he responded quote those were terrible times for my family which you're trying to move past at the i did their due diligence and cleared me of any involvement. Men have a nice night. Please be respectful of what my family has gone through so here's what we know. Glenn jones was planning to bomb a beal building an appeared to have begun as a response to the death of lavoix finicky him joneses plot was a continuation of the occupation of the malheur national wildlife refuge which was itself a ripple effect of the standoff at bundy ranch but then for some reason jones baum clubs house instead of the beal building in the years since the bundy's high-profile standoffs more acts of of extremist violence have been popping up in the news they aren't necessarily inspired by the patriot movement but some of them share some of the scene anti-government white supremacist beliefs certainly the news and the man suspected of sending a wave of mail bombs across the country is in handcuffs tonight. A florida man who mailed bombs to prominent liberals just like barack obama hillary clinton and george soros because he thinks they're a part of a shadowy cabal was accused of sending all those devices to critics of president. Donald trump or georgia man killed a cop killer. Tear guthrie claim to be considered himself sovereign citizen nation to himself. He didn't recognize police. It's already and considering consider and i wondered if the pinnacle bombing was perhaps an early sign of this increasingly radical violence a tiny window too small to see the whole picture but a window nonetheless the less into extremist ideologies and how those ideologies become violent. I couldn't ask jones why he blew up the clubhouse or if the the bombing was supposed to send some sort of message but there was someone else someone who is at plenty ranch and who knew voi- finnigan who also tried to blow up a government building ending that same summer and when we come back leah tracks down that man who said what happened at the bundy ranch served as a rallying cry i to me it was one of the biggest events in this country. This has in his history short boston. Tea party parent civil war like that but it was a wakeup call. This is revealed from the center for investigative reporting and p. R. x. <music> the center for investigative reporting in p. r. x. This is reveal. I'm outlet it back. In february at a truck stop outside salt lake city utah lisa tilly and ryan has of the podcast bundy have come to guy in bill keyboard. Keebler blur has been involved with the patriot movement since the bundy's first standoff with the federal government in bunkerville nevada. He says he ran security there afterwards he he started his own militia fifty seven year old william keebler is known by the f._b._i. As a commander of a citizen militia group called the patriots defense force in june of two thousand sixteen that would he hit the button to designate what he thought was a bomb to destroy a building owned by the bureau of land management but it turns out the bomb was a fake komo undercover f._b._i. Agents had given him the device. He pled guilty to the attempted bombing and served time in jail. Now he's out on probation. Leeann ryan pick up the story at that restaurant and salt lake smokes and coffee real quick. They'll keep learn looks like a shriveling old ranch chand. He's got leathery skin. Smoker's cough says he beat cancer once and has had four heart procedures two thousand thirteen and i had a massive heart attack and had to go in for mercy open heart surgery. We're at a denny's tucked into the corner of the truckstop for most most of his working years. Keebler was a horse wrangler and hunting guide with his own company. We ease into the conversation. Ryan and i are just trying to get a feel for who we're talking to what we can and can't ask but it turns out gablers a storyteller and he's happy to talk all about his past. He's got stories from his time. I'm in the army bravo. Infantry went to a lotta specialized training fort bend when germany i'll l. ended there and i think one of the friday saturday morning i woke up on russian communist. Russian border says he also knows his way around computers. Do i used to do costa taster trish. They can't break and they still have nothing. I mean good anyway even says he has a black belt in kung fu fhu studied numerous black belt in four different styles. He says he created his own system of kung fu. You can tell keebler likes to think of himself as a kind of elderly rambo your own and i should be clear. I wasn't able to verify most of his stories but i also wasn't in utah taught to figure out whether he got third place in the kung fu world championships. I wanted to know what happened with the f._b._i. But i that meant convincing him that we weren't f._b._i. Agents raid to talk to people like you. I'm gonna be honestly it would surprise me. Both david pulled out. I just went shot in what i've seen because in keebler world everyone's a potential threat and you can't be too careful. He's been burned once already asked him why is even telling me his story yeah. I've been on borrowed time for years. I came here because they wanted to hear keebler side of the bombing and understand how and why things became violent but just a few minutes into the interview. What i'm really wondering is how did the f._b._i. Decide to focus on this guy. Is this old. The man in poor health really the most dangerous person in the patriot movement. If you skip over the special forces his training the computer hacking and martial arts inventing the verifiable part bill keebler story starts in twenty fourteen when he spent about two weeks and bunkerville ville nevada cliven bundy's ranch the family in some militias were facing off with the bureau of land management because the bundy's hadn't paid their grazing being fees and the b. M. had come to collect their cattle. The fact that keebler was there was later used by government prosecutors in court as evidence of his extremism back. Then keebler says he was a member of the oath keepers a militia associated with the patriot movement and by his account at bunny ranch he he was a bodyguard for the family. He claims he's the guy who kept things from descending into violence. Leave north actually stop. A lot of people like them play out their stop. People wanna shoot people. I don't want to rehash bundy ranch but the long short of it is no one fired any shots and the government backed down and after the bundy's cows were released in the agents laughed. Keebler was pumped up on the patriots big win to me. It was one of the biggest events events in this country. This has his history short at boston tea party to several. We're not like that but it was a wakeup. Geico call so in the following months back at home in utah. Keebler started his own militia. He called it patriots defense force or p._d._f. F was a half dozen or so guys got together mostly to talk about self reliance. Basically they did survival training practice target shooting. They were anti-government. He government peppers. We've talked a lot about going off grid about what to do. When things went sideways keebler even showed people how to raise chickens and rabbits for meat meet then a few months later keebler got a phone call from someone he'd met at bunkerville lavar finicky. He wanted me to basically in his place and give him the support that we gave the bundy's back. Then lavoix finicky was just rancher in arizona and keeler said he was building up to his own bunkerville styles standoff with the m. I can't fully verify what was said in this phone call but i do know that around this time in the late summer of two thousand fifteen finnigan was becoming agitated with the bureau of land management veal a._m. Sarah zero government has said has exclusive legislative power over these lands. He was making that pretty obvious on his youtube page. No none of these bureaucrats crafts do we allow here county none of ever accountable to us emma harvey county. This is the definition of tearing from the way keebler tells the story finicky was not only upset he was looking for a fight and keebler advertises his supposed expertise in military tactics addicts to anyone who'll listen was happy to bring his militia to come help him prepare for the confrontation that the bundy's we got there after the fact if we knew it was coming. We could be prepared because they were actually <hes>. Apparently they won't come. Just take all his cal but it's pretty unlikely that anyone was coming for finnish uh-huh cattle records from the beal showed fit income only owed about fourteen hundred dollars in grazing fees by comparison cliven bundy owed more than a million in dollars accrued over twenty years for the beal plan to cattle roundup that led to the standoff near his ranch but that didn't stop finicky him from preparing for the worst or keebler from helping him do it. They came up with a plan that was different than what the bundy's had done at finnigan's ranch. They decided they would let the federal agents onto. The landry grazed his cattle and then spring a trap. I don't mean ambush salt and killed and shoot none of that cracks. That's worth thank everybody tresor preser- ad-lib ship the plan was to let the be on the property and then use an excavator to destroy the road behind them so they're truck couldn't get out at certain place so when they come up and he'll them cattle that can't get up here we keep alert saying sounded way more extreme of an approach than what i saw the bundy ranch or an oregon he was saying they would trap federal agents and i had to wonder then what are they gonna. Keep them hold them hostage. Why trap them in the first place but before i could get an answer key told me that another member of his militia wanted to blow them all up brad miller's idea. Oh wait till you get right to your brother. It was just up. Keebler says brad miller wanted to set off a bomb at the roadblock but he had a few problems with that. I killing mask to you're killing whoever's truck but brad miller wasn't just a cattle killing dumb ass. He was actually an undercover f._b._i. V. i. agent in fact at varying times. There were three confidential informants and three undercover f._b._i. Agents in keillor's militia and so if you take away keebler the f._b._i. Agents and informants there were at most just three members of p._d._f. Militia all this time finn keebler had been planning a confrontation with federal agents with the help of federal agents in court documents their records of text messages one of the other other undercover f._b._i. Agents who went by the name jake davis sent to his handler right after this happened he wrote quote. I hope we didn't open pandora's whereas box. I'm worried about our liability in another text. Davis worried about miller's continued taunting keebler quote. I'm all pushing him but we can't sound more radical. He wrote to me. That's what it sounds like. We're doing later he wrote. I'm not down with giving him all the ideas it's like when miller told him that we would have to mail a bomb to the beal office or drive a car bomb up to it. We can't be putting crazy ideas into a crazy guys head but they didn't more than just put ideas in his head over the course of their investigation the f._b._i. Agents posing as militia members drove keebler around the west. I patriot movement gatherings. They paid for trainings. They were the majority of his militia and then finally in the spring of two thousand sixteen keebler started to buy in he told the militia that they were going to target beal facilities way out in the middle of nowhere specifically a beal and building that he had scouted in your finnigan's ranch finchem by then had been killed by police after trying to drive around that police blockade oregon over the next couple of months and the f._b._i. Made keebler fake pipe bomb and then on june twenty first twenty sixteen keebler in the rest of his militia traveled to arizona and set the bomb. I'm outside. The building. Keyword pushed the button on a fake detonator the f._b._i. Gave him and then the next morning they arrested him. Topsy picnic brought me a handcuff. This guy comes in dressed bigger shitting grin on his face or allowed to see mr taber trying to brush your sorry ass for two years they had busted him in all it took was three agents three paid informants armaments and two years of pushing keebler before they convinced him to set off a fake bomb way out in the middle of the desert and it's not every day you talked to someone who's tried to bomb a building and i have to say for a while talking to keebler i. I felt like maybe the f._b._i. Missed the mark and manipulated and otherwise innocent man so they could get a conviction but about an hour into our conversation. Things took a hard turn and he didn't seem so innocent anymore. In fact it became very hard to talk to him. It happened when i asked him about how he thinks the federal the government should work think about your ideal situation with the federal government the stink government. What would that look like like what would that what would that world learn their own themselves themselves the government doing the job they were meant to be. The government's purpose is basically for foreign affairs affairs. He says that the government can do its thing trading with china and korea but is no damn business running utah georgia or texas then he starts talking about how muslims are taking over schools. You can't do the pledge of allegiance in school. Were now we got muslims praying and everything else in the hallways in our schools and in our classrooms and teachers are now making kids dress up like muslims i._s. Keebler you give me an example where this was. It's happening but he just said number places yeah. They have taken over host cities. They want to start prayer. They won't stop all the american stuff. The boy scouts and everything make an islam. They're out in the streets. Writing with hundreds of imbalance shutdown rose copter standing over mix. Nobody are you serious badly. Thanks her for about fifty rednecks before pickup trucks will in their pro. Keebler is advocating for something that sounds like intimidation at best an attacking muslims in the street at worst and it's all informed his conspiratorial world view. Maybe this. This is the kind of talk that brought the f. b. i. to him. I don't know tops now dressed up. They got what looks like police cars and what looks like police uniforms and they're doing what they want. Now there was a god. It was preaching christianity to up there. He's been arrested on the internet right now need to homework homework. You think the federal the federal government is in volved in that or you just think it should be no shock at this point to tell you that keebler is also an ardent donald trump supporter. He loves him. He hates barack. Obama thinks he's part of what conspiracy theorists call the deep deep state shadowy government cabal agreement today put him in the present is that he would make way for more muslims to be of the united states. That's actually come out recently won the news reporters. He was made president so more muslims the u._s. He arranged to be able to like soros his financing a lot of <hes> a lot of this is about the new world order looked pedophilia. You're going on right now. They can kill a child hours. After it's been born to keep it alive long enough the organs to develop didn't kilkare okay and harsh it for parts at this point in our interview. Keebler is looking at ryan. Emmy like we're crazy. Like how do we not know any of this this. I can't believe i don't know none of this. We're looking at keebler. Like how crazy do you have to be to believe stuff talking talking to keebler. I feel like i understand how far down conspiratorial rabbit hole you have to be in order to detonate a bomb that helps me understand glenn jones to oh but at the same time keillor's bigotry as clouded his entire perspective on the world keillor's whole life revolves around conspiracy theories but in the world of militias and anti-government groups. This is actually nothing new so we got on the phone with author jesse walker. Tell put a guy like keebler and context walker wrote. A book called the united states of paranoia. I wanted to understand the role. The conspiracies have played in militia groups throughout history. You know in a cold war era <hes> right wing conspiracy theories to you had groups like the john birch society <hes> sort of shifting from in the nineteen sixties from you know fears where off the <hes> the enemy is based in moscow fears where the enemy is based in new york and <hes> manipulating moscow nineties after the cold war ended ended events like ruby ridge waco happened conspiracy shifted again and so it's much easier just sorta see washington as the enemy period <hes> you also have on the rise of the internet and while i'm not someone who argues that the internet made people more paranoid made people boomer conspiracy theorists i do think one thing that it definitely did was allow more mixing among <hes> all these different groups of people who it previously been much more <hes> separate from one another bill keebler fits this description of the modern conspiracy theorist someone looking for a target for their anger. He was in the army fighting communism. When the cold cold war ended he had to look somewhere else and joined up with militias other so-called patriot groups to fight the government now he's a foot soldier for trump and his new enemies are immigrants and muslims and women and abortion doctors bill clinton and george soros hillary clinton and brock obama the deep state. He lives in an acid bath of conspiracy theories so ask keebler. Where's this going in his mind. The shit hits the fan incident incident during the obama administration if he declared more slow rally me rarely around me to central command post and we'll go from there we operations at that point. That would have been should fan so what's the difference now. What's i think if trump declares martial law would be more controlled manner <hes> he's not come after patriots demolition. Do not white people know there. You go pushing the racist bullshit. The people got angry when i asked him. If this entire world she'd conspiracies government balls is really just a veil for his racism after he spent an hour telling wildly inaccurate stories about sharia law evasions at the border how muslims are a plague in a christian nation like america. He tells me i'm off base to ask at this. All really comes down to bigotry. Keebler is built his world around these extremist ideas and he's not willing to back down from them. That much is clear when ryan awesome different question happens if the democrats impeach trump or some kind of charges the bra. What do you think happens with the patriots over. I'll bet off just from what i'm hearing seeing on the internet. All bets are off with you. Bet your off take their word keebler guy who tried to blow up a government building in who lives is on a steady stream of hate from the internet says he's had enough if anything were to ever happen to his guy trump and he thinks it'd be time to take up arms again. People are wanting retaliation revenge. They won't pay back for a lot of things this abortion crap what what is happening to our children what has happened to our streets whereas happened in our schools. People want retribution rich bution listening to that story. You might think the government spending a lot of resources versus to stop people like bill keebler but in reality. He's the exception not the rule. Don't get me wrong the f._b._i. Carries out plenty of sting operations nations. They're just usually focus on terrorist acting in the name of islam. Even though there's way more acts of right wing terrorism we looked at this with type investigations sagacious a few years back and found that half of the incidents carried out in the name of islam are stopped with stinks half. Meanwhile stings were used to stop just twelve percent of white supremacists anti-government and other right wing terrorism in other words law enforcement. Usually only folks is on right wing violence after the bombs explode leah. I want to get back to the last thing that we heard from bill keebler that people want retribution. What does he mean by that. There's really been a transition. I think in the year since the bundy's standoffs <hes> a lot of the anti-government movement suddenly loves loves the government under trump which kind of is is counterintuitive right like the anti-government movement is suddenly pro government because trump is talking about things that they care about deeply things like anti immigration issues anti-muslim issues and trump is this kind of anti-government president so retribution for guys like bill keebler is seeing the extremes of those things coming true finally coming to fruition so a country with no immigrants no more islam no more tolerance of anyone wight christian people. I mean the two things the idea that these these groups are anti-government and the fact that suddenly they are pro government under trump is not surprising to me at all because i think the underpinning of both of these things <unk> are white supremacy. How does that play out in anti-government movements. There's this kind of coded language of of racism and bigotry that that drives the groups and in that that you can hear under a lot of what they say so yeah it's not it's not really surprising that after years of being mostly dormant a lot of these anti-government groups had a big resurgence under the first black president under president obama so you can see evidence of the way white supremacy rides along with all of these anti-government anti-government flash points in the last thirty years so like randy weaver the guy who is at the center of the ruby ridge standoff. He was known to hang out at the area nations compound compound in north idaho. <hes> the oklahoma city bomber timothy mcveigh was inspired by a novel called the turner diaries which sort of envisions this <hes> <hes> future dominated by a race war. So what does he have a what people like bill keebler will be doing between now and the presidential election next year i i think bill keebler specifically focused on getting off probation kind of disappearing into the woods. I guess if he could <hes> said he wanted to move out of utah where he feels like the federal government is watching him. He's left social media and not kind of thing but he's still occasionally talks about conspiracies pro-trump messages ages. He's very excited about some of the racist comments that that president trump has been saying as of late so you kind of see a an individual like him him as really an getting excited about trumpet also getting excited about these anti democrat anti liberal conspiracies that that spread like wildfire on on the internet. Why does the government have such a hard time. Stopping these kind of domestic groups and i'm thinking that you know when we look at this. We're primarily talking about white. Supremacists premesis and the government doesn't seem to have a problem tackling other types of terrorism. Why does the government seemed to have such a hard time stopping shopping these groups with violent tendencies. I think it's about priorities. After nine eleven there is a major shift towards focusing on cracking down on international terrorism awesome and it took the focus off of domestic anti-government groups that saw such a resurgence during the nineteen nineties so. I think that your question is right on and what's changed now to stop them. So what else do you uncover in the rest of the season of bundy ville. I answered all kinds of questions. One of those is that i looked at how the anti-government movement recruits other people to do violence and who stands to benefit from that violence so those questions took me all around the american west a- actually led me to a really secretive religious community that i long heard about up in eastern washington that is thought of as this real patriot friendly place yes and i think could be thought of as something of an origin point for a lot of the ideas that the western anti-government movement is excited about liza tilly. Thank you so much coach thank you. We want to thank the whole team of bundy ville for their help. As we said the full run of season two is just out with more twists and turns highly recommend you check it out. You can also read the series on long reach dot com slash bundy ville bundy villes produced by long reads in oregon public broadcasting our partners and bring you this week. Show many thanks to the o._p._b. Editors ryan has anna griffin and long read editors mike dang and kelly stout in fact checker matt giles our executive producer. Kevin sullivan edited today show with help from reveals. Emily harris and g amini are reduction managers news. One day in the hosa are sound design. Team is the dynamic duo j. breezy. Mr jim briggs and fernando-mania room are c._e._o.'s krista schaumburg mad thompson. Thompson is our editor in chief our theme music is by colorado might support for bills provided by the raven david logan foundation the john d and catherine t. macarthur foundation the jonathan logan family foundation the ford foundation the hazing simon's foundation the democracy fund and the ethics excellence in journalism foundation reveal is a co-production at the center for investigative reporting p._r. Ex i'm outlets and remember there is always more to the story yeah <music>.

cliven bundy william keebler federal government oregon glenn jones keebler utah Donald trump bundy ville Leeann ryan bundy bundy ranch cliven cliven bundy sheriff lee bill keebler nevada arizona barack obama beal building president
Episode 3: The Martyr

Bundyville: The Remnant

31:03 min | 1 year ago

Episode 3: The Martyr

"Bonneville is brought to you by wordpress dot com the powerful website creation tool with everything you need to build any kind of site you want long reads uses wordpress to publish all of its journalism including Bundy Ville check it out at long reads dot Com Slash Sh- bundy Ville wordpress.com not only helps people tell stories but can also help show off their small businesses even run a store and their customer support team is standing by twenty four hours a day to help you with whatever you WanNa create plans start at just three dollars a month. Go to wordpress dot com slash long rates to get started and get fifteen percent off a new plan purchase. That's wordpress dot com slash long rates a warning to listeners before we start this episode contains audio Jio from a police shooting. Keep that in mind when choosing one and where to listen I've seen lavoix finchem die and die and die I can log onto youtube right now and watch finicky when it comes in spliced and paused and dissected by people who never knew him seconds later he dropped to the ground as the topsy shows from the corner. He was shot three times. Want those people to have again and again watched his pickup crash. The driver's door fly open Vinnicombe hops out as a yells to the police. You're going to have to shoot me. Then three bullets bang back dead kill back it up play to get his words sound like a nervous mantra started again. They come across like an unfinished sentence. Are they start start to threat promise. I always think I'll hear some new intonation some missed revelation but finicky. I'm always dies the same three POPs. It doesn't jump or Yelp just crumples body alive one second have you sack of bones dropped to the ground for eternity the next puppet without a hand gravity. That's stronger than spirit death on repeat. It's Finnigan is known own for and maybe it's because his public facing life was a blip twenty one months out of fifty four years from the time finicky marrived alone at Bundy ranch twenty fourteen to the time he died the leader of the Malheur Occupation Twenty sixteen only about six hundred fifty days past. He was a martyr for the Patriot movement made at the speed of the Internet from long reads an Oregon public broadcasting. This is Bundy Ville. I'm Leah Silly. Bobbio then gets on the stand and he admits he was on a puddle outside street in Salem Oregon's capital city site an old v._f._w.. Hall there's no place you can stand not see the American flag or feel the nostalgic brand of Stars and Stripes Patriotism Assembled here and on the breast every person who's paid fifty dollars to be here is around pin it reads justice for Lavoix set on a border of American flag ribbon people have gathered here to remember incomes death as the program begins some hundred people in the aged crowd push themselves up from folding chairs the best they can curly-haired cowboy in tight jeans begins to leave the room and song. How's the room turns its collective body toward another flag one with yellow fringe they sing low and soft with the cowboy? That's why when it's time for the Crescendo Sing right along as the day unfolds it will become evident that this is in way kind of church is an American religion with its own symbols its own prayers moral teachings deadly sins and now it's own martyr. The name Robert Lavoix finicky or just lavoix is a hollowed one. This is obviously the third anniversary of death. The man on the stage with Mike is mark her to be here in Oregon on a cold foggy Salem morning he lives in Washington. State has been traveling around the country with Finnigan's widow Ginette they've been showing. Doing this movie that her made it's called dead man talking her says it's a documentary but it's mostly just youtube videos that lavoix uploaded in the months before he went to Oregon still. I don't hear anyone complaining about paying for something that they could watch at home for free genetics here to secure the legacy of little Vinnicombe. Her says he wants that to to secure the voice legacy. He also wants you to pay him to take his civics course after you watch the Finnick Movies Eh he runs a nonprofit called the center for self governance as he keeps talking. It's painfully clear that he wants me by his message to it's called Bunkerville but really Bundy bill right bill. He wants it to be clear that he's not afraid that I'm here or that. I shouldn't be afraid of him. I'm not sure or maybe it's that people should be on their best behavior because the media is here you oppose white supremacy. Would you please stand. You're against white supremacy. You don't agree with white supremacy. Okay if you are pro responsible government. You're pro government. You're pro responsible government. Would you please clap her keeps looking at me and my producer as he talks can't help but wonder how much of this performance is because I'm here if you believe that the federal the boundary between the federal government would does eventually become clear is that this is the part of the day they really want shared with the rest of the world the part they want me to get on tape. Were they explained how people in the Patriot movement aren't extremists at all. The people gathered here marker says they love America and what's wrong with that Lavoix finchem loved America's so much he died for it and shouldn't we all find that inspiring inspiring. It's a truth. This crowd holds to be self evident and voice. Life was pretty obviously more complicated than the simple story critics of the Patriot movement call Avoi- a lot of things things sovereign citizen extremist terrorists Nazi mark her says that the actual facts of his life story are being ignored purposely ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative that he's an extremist based on that. He's a terrorist that he deserved to be killed. The story of lavoix split in these two really extreme directions. He's either seen as everything that's right with America for everything that's wrong with America. So which is hello everyone here would have me believe that Lavoix was a hero for group that wants to correct the record about him. They're awfully stingy with information when it comes time to show the movie about his life that's when the organizers of the event takes the stage wjr reminds us their security everywhere in this room and absolutely no recording of these videos copyright and so I might have to call security. I really don't WanNa do that. We do have security here as she says this to. The crowd huddle of militia members settle in the back and then a man with a handgun on his hip nestled in a leather holster embossed with the words we the people leans against the wall near the only to reporters in this room me producer Ryan has we didn't record the movie about Lavoix Finchem but I'm GONNA be honest. You're not really missing anything. Dan Talking is lavoix. We story told through the eyes of the Patriot movement so it's primarily concerned with his life after he went to the Bundy ranch standoff in two thousand fourteen the movie doesn't answer questions about how Lavoix came to believe what he did and how that belief leave compelled him to die. It's a movie about lavoix as a symbol for government overreach because that's what he's become to the Patriot movement. His life story proves the government's tyranny as a rancher. They pushed him so hard that he had no choice but to fight back when he did. They killed him. At least that's the story that mark her and Jeanette finicky are selling with their youtube video documentary. Fortunately I have better sources okay all right so my name is Guy Finicky so I'm the voice younger brother. So one of the reasons we wanted to come talk to you is we just haven't seen a ton of stuff about who lavoix was before. The world came to know him. I guess so we thought it'd be great for you to just tell us about nobody would have the dirt like a little road. The Guy Lives in for Dona Arizona this tiny town on the border with Utah Lots of films of called home for Generations Josh cluff the guy whose house was blown up in Pennock Nevada used to live here too in fact I found a newspaper clipping from voice baptism and saw relative that the last name cluff actually Baptize Lavoie the L._D._S. temple here. I have to say Guy Finicky looks and sounds. So much like boy he's bald and has the same sharp jaw and wire rim glasses. It's a little jarring at first but that's where their similarities seemed to end real Avoi- aspire to the ranching lifestyle guy became a licensed this mental health counselor a therapist by by profession and so this is this is the world leading work in but I am amazed how people create their own own experiences own reality guy tells me that he in Lavoix in their other siblings grew up in the northwestern is western corner of Arizona on the Navajo reservation. Their Dad had a government job working for the Arizona Department of Transportation as a kid. Lavoix was like any big brother if you could imagine the Batman and joker rolled into one character he was my nemesis when I was a kid home he he loved to tease me he did you know but as soon as we left the home home he was my hero. The boys grew up riding horses camping in the mountains and shooting each other with B._B.. Guns he won be cowboy from the fires but as young as a little boy he didn't have any cattle so that was my job. I was livestock. <hes> gave me a hug titan earmarked more than once guy paints a picture of his older brother as a driven hard working person who dominated every room he was in he was confident. Someone guy looked up to he says lavoix. It was the kind of person that wants. He said his mind to something. You wouldn't give up no matter what not started from an early age he he loved to play basketball. I Remember Waking Up in the summers. We had a old asphalt bad the my dad added oilcake from the highways and Rim my dad put up. I'd wake up in here that I can still hear that basketball bounced and the guy says even though Lavoix was only five seven. He gave everything having to being a basketball player after graduation. He went on his L. D. S. mission in South Dakota. He came home and married his first wife woman named Kelly they moved to a suburb outside Portland Oregon where they managed an apartment building thing had their first couple of children and the whole time voice plan was to walk onto a local college basketball team. He'd play racquetball every day. The guy says reality soon hit the void didn't have the money to pay tuition even if he got a spot on the team so eventually gave up on basketball after regretted that decision because he was never able to get a college degree you know and he says it was the first of many times in his life that I learned about. We're lavoix wanted to make something work doc but couldn't no matter how much he wanted it. Including his marriage to Kelly they had four kids and then they ended up getting a divorce and so nine months after his divorce lavoix got married again to a woman named Rachel they yeah two more kids got a divorce. After two years guy says this part of boys life was full of turmoil and shame this a human being okay he likes aid he'd been through two two failed marriages those deeply distressing matter of fact you know our our religious background our culture you know members of the Church of Latter Day saints we have a high value on marriage marriage and family and and he got a divorce he was first divorced in my grandmother's media family a big family and that was a big deal they him according to his brother La- voice ultimate dream was to come back to Fredonia raise a family he wanted to start a ranch to from his twenties to his forties. lavoix bounced all around the West trying to make enough money to start that dream I found addresses for him. In Portland Albuquerque Santa Fe Las Vegas near Flagstaff and all over Utah Saint George Cedar City Provo but every time he had to get successful at he gets sick of living in the city you try back home the when he did when you come back home he just could never get a foothold so they'd come back here and be dirt poor and struggle and eventually they moved back to the city somewhere away guy tells has the story was willing to do anything to make his ranching dream happened when every move away from home he he he do well financially just couldn't stay away from home and he couldn't make it work very well. On the ranch nine hundred ninety two after a second divorce things started to turn around for Lavoix happened when he went to a singles dance at his church Ginette Finnigan told the crowd about it that day at the V._F._W.. and was back in the day when line. Line dancing was in. I don't know if you guys remember lying dancing. Okay Ninety two and I liked line dancing. There's a lot of fun and I can remember being out on the floor and this gorgeous cowboy walked into the room and I can remember him walking along the side wall and then in front of us and he sat up on the stage and he just sat there watching all of us dance. I WANNA dance with him. They did end up dancing and genetic to keep him dancing but he said he'd only do it. If she answered a question he's I don't have any rhythm and he's GonNa tell you if you can tell me how. Many kids have all dances next dance with you. She guests six. She was right eight long story short two weeks later we were married so it was a very short engagement. Suddenly Lavoix Ginette had this big family they had dreamed about between the two of them. They attend kids. It's eventually became therapeutic foster parents which meant they fostered kids with high emotional and behavioral needs guy says it suited lavoix because of his strong personality he was able to control kids that other foster parents couldn't fostering also gave the family more consistent cash and that was a really key turning point in the voice life finally found the way that he could cash little things to get back home and start building history. The family moved to Kane eighteen beds Arizona. It's about a half hour from for Dona Records from twenty eleven show the Bureau of land management granted Lavoie grazing permit from October to May his allotment was near Tuck Up Canyon deep in the Arizona Arizona Desert near the Grand Canyon. It's important to note that lavoix was running cows exclusively on public land. He didn't have any land of his own and by the time he started ranching lavoix was fifty years years old. He's only been doing it for three years. When in twenty fourteen finicky I'm went to the Bundy ranch standoff over in Bunkerville Nevada and that's the other really key turning point and boys life well I was I was watching what he was doing and he was he was becoming more and more vocal about the progression of what do you call the ever increasing power of you know the government at all levels but the federal government was really concerning concerning to him the next summer lavoix went all in on Cliven Bundy's conspiracy theories about the federal government scheming against ranchers to take over their land and he started fantasizing about what he would do if the feds came after him to you gotTa Stop? It's gotTa Stop Be Lamb here I am you won't pick on somebody. Come pick on me my cows out here. You tell me gotta get him off. I'm not take him off. You know you WANNA WANNA play those antiques with other people harass them destroy their lives. Well here. I am you come pick on me. Come on pick on me and I'm not going anywhere but here's the thing up until twenty fifteen lavoix was in good standing with the bill he always paid his bills on time but after meeting cliven Bundy void kind of went from Batman to joker he became obsessed with the end of the world and started getting into political activism in two thousand fifteen he wrote a novel. It's called only by blood and suffering and spoiler alert. It's about a cowboy who dies in a shootout with federal agents. After America collapses. He also decided that year that he needed to make a stand against the bill and it's on this point the Guy Finicky says a lot of people get the story wrong. A lot of people say you know avoid okay was being mistreated by the O._M.. And therefore you know he was a rebellion against them because of their mystery and he would tell you know that's not the case <hes> they treated him quite well. The problem he had was he saw a pattern of picking and choosing who they treated well to they didn't treat well if they wanted to ranch or some other purpose they'd bring all all kinds of heavy handed tactics on you and push you off in June. Twenty fifteen lavoix wrote a letter to the bill and I got a copy of it it says quote. I'm writing you this letter to express my appreciation for the time we've associated together in connection with my grazing on the Arizona Strip has been pleasant association and without conflict but he tells them he's gotTa take a stand quote. This is not about cows and grass US access resources. This is about freedom and defending our constitution in its original intent. Even the beal was confused phone records show. They called him to try to understand what the heck this stand. Dan was all about and they kept finding Vinnicombe. Cattle out in the sweltering desert outside of the permitted grazing season lavoix responded that ranchers and other states were standing up against the government and he was going to stand with them by the end of August Twenty fifteen lavoix severed ties with the beale completely and court documents show the by September he was meeting with Bill Keebler about making a stand on his ranch in case the feds came in so that's four months from being in good standing with the bill to planning to take a stand against them at his ranch. You know so with family were quite concerned when he started drawing the line in San with the bill because I'm like the Avoi- I know you don't like bullies but you're picking a fight with the federal government. They don't lose. They don't lose look how many people you know they've got unlimited amounts of money and technology and power and everything he's like well the wrong void made up his mind and by January twenty sixteen he was all the way up in Oregon at the Mao year occupation guy was worried knowing what's going on just getting media reports. I thought things you're kind of crazy and I thought what in the world when my brother doing I want to talk sense until modestly over the years him the void discuss politics and they didn't always see eye to eye but when he went to Malheur all year he saw that La Voie was exactly where he wanted to be and I left saying no to my brother. Stay the course stick to what you what you know you're doing in a way it was like everything guy I understood about. Lavoie was clear for the very first time he'd spent so long trying and failing to become a rancher and then almost as soon as he'd done it we'd gone to Bunkerville and saw new model what it means to be a cowboy. It wasn't just running your cattle. Putting meals on the table was actively fighting to preserve a way of life carrying guns standing up to the government plotting standoffs it meant becoming cliven bundy whose motto auto had been whatever it takes cliven wasn't that Malheur so lavoix could step into that role. Maybe take it a step further. People may say you can't know things like this but I knew when I said Goodbye Oregon he he was gonna Die After. Don't ask me how I know. I was just standing. There also hit me. He was GonNa die there yeah so when I said goodbye team I really thought it would be the last I saw you had family after after day of his kids told them they all need to get love what was says. It didn't know what direction this was. He knew that there were a bunch of militia Alicia members that were planning to come in there and he wasn't he wasn't able he had no control those people coming in and he did not know whether they were going to push a fight and what was going to happen and he told us kids. You know it seems safe here today. It is gonNA stay say she can't. We just told you that that some pretty personal think for a second about the kind of love guys talking about a love that is so strong you can step aside and let someone get what they want most even if it'll kill them leaving behind daughters and sons foster children a wife a mother brother a ranch hard-fought dream after talking to guy I'm left with another competing narrative not lavoix as a Nazi lavoix as a hero but Lavoix is someone trying to control his on story. His life was full of failures basketball two marriages in ranching but there's no living life without failure seems like lavoix simply. Let it to find him. One Way to look at his death is as a way to wash away those failures simplifies life down to the last six hundred days when he stood for something and died as a martyr in recordings that were made by undercover agents agents embedded in bill keebler militia Finnigan told Keebler he quote wants to be like the guy standing in front of the tank at Tiananmen Square and that if he gets taken out and the causes the poor ranchers widow so he was thinking about how his death would be perceived even before he went to Oregon it makes me wonder if voice dream was never really about being a lone horseman in the desert fighting for way of life but instead it was about figuring. Away to die as a hero before we leave I asked about the ending of La Voice book the Hero Cowboy who dies in a shootout with the cops guys a master's degree in counseling after all so so did he see it as a suicide note story. There was pretty an ending of a cowboy getting to shootout with the federal government and gets killed and then here. That's exactly what happened to Lavoix. What do you make of that? You know it really isn't I mean he you know if you read that book. I mean there's no question that that was the person he wanted had to be. He wants to be a person who had the ability to stand up and make a difference. I'M GONNA go back to Salem back to the Church of finicky representatives of the Patriot movement hard at work making Lavoix into whatever they want him to be. You know what I was reading the voice book he said something in the book that to me just stood out he talked about how we're going to control every aspect of our lives from what we eat to what we drive to what we wear. This is true. After the movie finished. This lady took the stage and started the throwing around all these wild conspiracy theories about how the U._N.. Aka The new world order is using environmentalism to control everyone crowd is loving her ask Ginette and mark her about this why partner the voice message which they say is apolitical with conspiracy theories political rhetoric and they say yeah maybe we should think about who hitches their wagon to lavoix as a martyr but Janette victims wrongful death lawsuit lawsuit has a total deep state vibe to it accusing everyone from former Attorney General Loretta Lynch to Oregon's governor as being a part of the plot to kill Avoi- it's pretty clear lavoix wanted to be a martyr now his wife life is spreading that message so maybe the Patriot movement is getting him right the journey. The movie is taken over the last six months is worth noting it hasn't been shown at libraries or mainstream G._O._P.. Gatherings the media. It's been shown militias anti Muslim groups and prominent conspiracy theorists. We'll voice death is being used to make extremists more extreme and this is largely how this whole conflict has gone for the past past thirty years back to Ruby Ridge and Waco. If you think of those events is when the broader public became aware of the modern anti-government movement you can see this game of tit for tat playing out over decades the feds shot Sammy and Vicki rickie weaver at Ruby Ridge and they raided the branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas and then two years later Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City killing one hundred sixty eight people after waco the Fed stop shooting I and adopted more of a weight amount policy but then Maller lavoix charged a roadblock was killed so the pattern continues and that raises a much bigger question. Where does this go next how many more people will turn toward violence because they can go online and watch the void diet over and over again? Genetic is taken this movie a lot of places including one part of the West. I know really well eastern eastern Washington last summer. She showed it to a separatist religious community near the Canadian border if the message that she wants to get across about La Voie is that he wasn't an extremist weibring the perfect martyr to a place for anti-government violence killings by white supremacists have been happening for more than thirty years. That's next time on Bundy Ville Um. This episode was written by me. Lisa Tilly Peter Fricke right and Ryan has music by Robbie carver. This series is produced by Peter and Robbie from thirty minutes West. We had editorial oversight from Kelley Stout. Mike Dang an anti Griffin fact checking by Matt Giles Research help from Kim Freda and a special thanks to David stuck eat and thank you to the Buckskin tavern in Arizona which was kind enough to sell us real beer when the entire city of Connecticut Utah Would Not Bunny Ville is a co production of long rates and Oregon public broadcasting their members make this show possible so if you like this type of journalism please help support it. You can do that with any any type of donation bigger small either long rains or O._P._B.. You can also support Bundy Ville leaving us a rating or view wherever you get your podcasts or just by telling your friends to subscribe. There's a ton we.

Robert Lavoix Lavoix Oregon federal government Lavoix Ginette Arizona Cliven Bundy Ginette Finnigan Oregon Bundy ranch Lavoix finchem youtube Utah Baptize Lavoie America Bundy Ville lavoix Bunkerville basketball Malheur
Episode 2: The Bomber

Bundyville: The Remnant

34:57 min | 1 year ago

Episode 2: The Bomber

"Bonneville is brought to you by wordpress dot com the powerful website creation tool with everything you need to build any kind of site you want long reads uses wordpress publish all of its journalism including Bundy Ville check it out at long reads dot Com Slash Bundy Ville wordpress.com not only helps people tell stories but can also help showoff their small businesses even run a store and their customer support team is standing by twenty four hours a day to help you with whatever you WanNa create plans start at just three dollars a month. Go to wordpress dot com slash long rates to get started and get fifteen percent off in a new plan purchase. That's wordpress dot com slash long rates just a warning before we get started. This episode contains mild swearing hiring and discussions about racist ideologies. Keep that in mind when choosing when and where to listen it's February twenty one thousand nine hundred and I met a truck stop outside Salt Lake City Utah just after four o'clock the sons already going down range of snow covered mountains looms nearby producer Ryan has an I have come here to meet with a guy named Phil Keebler and we're nervous. uh-huh okay Keebler has been involved with the Patriot movement since Bunkerville where he says he ran security afterward. He started his own militia fifty seven year old. William Keebler is known by the F._B._i.. As Commander Manager of a citizen Militia Group called the Patriots Defense Force in fact Keebler has been portrayed as one of the most dangerous people in the Patriot movement according to the court documents F._B._i.. Undercover agents infiltrated Keebler Group and took part in field training exercises sizes they say keebler talked members of his militia about quote going on the offensive in June of twenty sixteen just a month before Glenn Jones flip the cluff family home in Panetta keebler hit the button to detonate what he thought that was a bomb set to destroy a building owned by the Bureau of land-management thought is the keyword there it turns out. His bomb was a fake given to him by undercover F._B._i.. Agents who had embedded in his group even before his arrest Bill Keebler thought there was some grand conspiracy of play and that for some reason the government was out to get him personally the thing is it turned out he was one hundred percent right about that from long reads an organ public broadcasting. This is Bundy Ville. I'm Leah Silly. When Glenn Jones shot himself in the head waiting for his bombs to blow up and Panetta he took with him answers? Here's to all sorts of questions about why did what he did but by talking to Keebler I hope we might learn something about how right wing bombers operate and what they're thinking why does someone in the Patriot movement light diffuse or press the button and why now Keebler Jones had both set off their bombs in the summer of twenty sixteen four to five months after the mail. Your occupation in Oregon had resolved so what changed after Mao hear the vice here today anything smokes in coffee real quick keebler looks like a shriveling old ranch hand. He's got leathery skin. Smoker's cough says he beat cancer once and has had four heart procedures the two thousand thirteen I had massive heart attack and had to go in for Mercy Open Heart Surgery. We're at a denny's tucked into the corner of the truckstop for most of his working years. Keebler was a horse wrangler and hunting guide lead with his own company Creator gator outfitters offer Georgia critters critic we ease into the conversation Ryan than I just trying to get a feel for who were talking to what we can and can't ask got it but it turns out keebler storyteller and he's happy to talk all about his past. He's got stories from his time in the army. Oh Eleven Bravo infantry went to a lot of specialized training for bed in when Germany I'll ended there and I think one of Friday Saturday morning I woke up on Russian Communist. Russian border says he also knows his way around computers used to do code nutrition. They can't break and they still have nothing. I'm in good anyway even says he has a black belt. In Kung Fu studied numerous arts frank black Belton four different styles <hes> an eighty ships eighty six hours before board of Masters and I presented a new system. He says he created his own system of kung-fu. You can tell keebler likes to think of himself as a kind of elderly Rambo wishaw and I should be clear. I wasn't able to verify most of his stories but I also wasn't in Utah to figure out whether he got third place in the Kung Fu world championships. I wanted to know what happened with the F._B._i.. But I that meant convincing him that we weren't f._B._I.. Agents people are afraid to talk to people like I'm GonNa be honestly would surprise me vote. They pull that I just went shutting what I've seen because in keebler swirled everyone's a potential threat and you can't be too careful. He's been burned once already asked him why is even telling me story. Don't it's going to die with me. I've been on borrowed time for years. I came here because I wanted to hear Keebler Keebler side of the bombing and understand how and why things became violent. I couldn't get answers from Glenn Jones who police said had wanted to target a government building so I had hoped keebler would help me understand why a person will try to detonate a bomb tom but just a few minutes into the interview. What I'm really wondering is how did the F._B._I.? Decide to focus on this guy is this old man in poor health really the most dangerous person Patriot movement. If you skip over the special forces training the computer hacking and martial arts inventing the verifiable part of Bill Keebler story starts in two thousand fourteen when he spent about two weeks and Bunkerville Nevada <hes> cliven Bundy's ranch the family in some militias were facing off with the bureau of land management because the Bundy's hadn't paid their grazing fees and the be Elim had come to collect their cattle. The fact that Keebler was there was later later used by government prosecutors in court as evidence of his extremism back then Keebler says he was a member of the oath keepers a militia associated with the Patriot movement and by his account at Bundy ranch he was a bodyguard regard for the family. He claims he's the guy who kept things from descending into violence. Leave not actually stop a lot of people alike them play at their house Dotson. PEOPLE WANNA shoot people. When I'm getting mad rebound put down my face? He wanted to start the war too far shot just to get started because if one shot had ever went off it's done you don't matter if it was a firecracker backfire necessary S. where everybody's Oh my God i Hope Cardo have backfired you know or so might those down firecracker on the ground things with that cloaks volatile. I mean it was ready. I don't want to Rehash Bundy ranch but the long short of it is no cars backfired. no-one fired any shots and the government backed down and after the Bundy's cows were released the bill. I'm agents left. Keebler was pumped up and the Patriots big win to me. It was one of the biggest events in this country. Sorry this has in its history Short Boston Tea Party <hes> compared to civil war not like that but it was a wakeup call soon the following months back at home in Utah Keebler started his own militia. He called it Patriots Defense Force or P._D._F.. It was a group of a half a dozen or so guys the got together mostly to talk about self reliance. Basically they did survival training practice target shooting. They were anti-government. Payment prospers talked a lot about going off grid about what to do when shit hit the Fan Keebler even showed people how to raise chickens rabbits for meat then a few months later keebler says he got a phone call from someone he'd met at Bunkerville conquer fill the void finicky. He wanted me to basically come to his place and give him the support that we gave the Bundy's. You'll recall that lavoix finicky was a leader of the Malheur wildlife refuge occupation was eventually killed by police at a roadblock in Oregon and that he was the cousin of Josh cluff whose house was blown up in Panetta but back then Finnigan was just a rancher in Arizona and Keebler our said he was building up to his own bunkerville style standoff with the beal end. I can't fully verify what was said in this phone call but I do know that around this time in the late summer of two thousand fifteen finicky was becoming agitated with the Bureau of land management so government has said has exclusive legislative power over these lands he was making that pretty obvious on youtube page. No none of these bureaucrats do we allow Kirmani county then of ever accountable to US Mohave County. This is the definition of tiered from the way Keebler tells the story finicky was not only upset he was looking for a fight and Keebler the advertisers his supposed expertise military tactics to anyone who listen was happy to bring his militia. Come help him prepare for the confrontation that Bundy's we got there after the fact if we knew it was coming woman we could be they're prepared because they were actually <hes>. Apparently they won't come just take all his cal but it's pretty unlikely that anyone was coming for Finnigan's cattle records from the beal. 'em showed Vinnicombe only owed about fourteen hundred dollars in grazing fees by comparison cliven Bundy owed more than a million dollars crew over twenty years for the beal unplanned a cattle roundup that led to the standoff near his ranch but that didn't stop finicky him from preparing for the worst or Keebler from helping him do it. They came up with a plan that was different than what the Bundy's had done at Finnigan's ranch. They decided they would let the federal agents onto the land where he grazes cattle and then spring a trap don't mean ambush assault salt and kill and shoot none of that cracks where thing everybody tries it added ship the plan was to let the be on the property and then use an excavator to destroy the road behind them so they're truck couldn't get out certain place when they come up to heal them. Cattle hello can't get up hill keillor's saying sounded way more extreme of an approach than what I saw Bundy ranch or an Oregon he was saying they would trap federal agents and I had to wonder then what they're going to keep them. Hold them hostage pige. Why trap them in the first place but before I could get an answer Keebler told me that another member of his militia wanted to blow them all up Brad Miller's idea was was just keebler says Brad Miller wanted to set off a bomb at the roadblock but he had a few problems with that killing Ms Cantrell to you're killing whoever's truck but Brad Miller wasn't just a cattle killing dumb ass? He was actually an undercover F._B._i.. Agent in fact at varying times there were three confidential informants and three undercover F._B._i.. Agents and keep blurs militia so if you take away keebler the F._B._i.. Agents and informants there were at most just three members of P._D._F.. Militia all this time Finnigan Keebler had been planning a confrontation with federal agents with the help help a federal agents by the Spring of Twenty sixteen federal agents had been keyboards militia for more than a year trying to quote take his temperature according to text messages between agents and on the surface. It seemed like a standard F. B. I. Undercover Operation We for the bad guys to do bad stuff and then take them down but the more I talked to Keebler in the more the government blocked me from accessing his court records the more I started wonder about what role the government was really playing in the P._d._f.. Militia between the two agents and Leonard Informant Dave became the most active you know they when we went down to Arizona to voice dictate for the whole trip but <hes> they were good financial support and we needed that according to court documents the F._B._i.. Agent who went by Brad Miller taunted Keebler this was the same guy who keebler says had the idea to blow up federal agents didn't unfinished comes property and he said that the Patriots and P._d._f.. Were just quote facebook fucking Nazis in other words guys who have a lot to say online but never take action in real life Keebler in response suggested the group do some recon of potential targets in Salt Lake City agent Brad Miller core documents say was one of the most active members of the militia suggested targeting Muslims but keebler said he didn't know how to find any similar offered to Google mosque trying to to a mosque. I and I said what you've lost your mind now. Look at Brown I said all of and you've lost your F- minds and I've mainly to brag as we were clashing there he said but what would it take. Why couldn't we so I'll tell you why you can't? I said you see that thing behind your of he left shoulder. Look for under the gas towers. You'd be amazed what's Indian things cameras monitor buildings eighty. That's one reason can't you know getting a modest place second. Look at the terrain and now starting to break it down to tell you know for you got look over and people walking out coming outside. They served in basketball. I said you see that. Those are kids. This women the children are playing basketball and shit. y'All loss again so the group moved on and drove past bureau of Land Management Office Miller suggested that they mail a bomb to it or use. He's a truck bomb to blow it up. Dude gone senile. That's feeling the Yin. How many people do you know what's in there? This whole scouting mission was going nowhere. They thought Keebler take the lead and blowing up government buildings but he just wasn't biting if it sounds like the F._B._i.. Was Pushing Keebler to take some sort of drastic action it turns out. Even some of their own agents were worried about that in court court documents their records of text messages one of the other undercover F._B._i.. Agents who went by the name Jake Davis sent to his handler right after this happened he wrote quote. I hope we didn't open Pandora's box in a way by taking keebler to a mosque he might not found on his own. I'm worried about our liability. If he happens to go back sometime on his own in another taxed Davis worried about Miller's continued taunting of keebler quote. I'm all for pushing him but we can't sound more radical. He wrote to me. That's what it sounds like. We're doing later he wrote. I'm not down with giving him all the ideas like when Miller told him that we would have to mail a bomb to the beal office or drive a car Obama to it. We can't be putting crazy ideas into a crazy guys head but they didn't more than just put ideas in his head over the course of their investigation the F._B._I.. Agents posing as militia members drove keebler around the West best to Patriot movement gatherings they paid for trainings. They were the majority of his militia and then finally in the spring of Twenty Sixteen keebler started to buy in he told the militia that they were going to target beal facilities ladies way out in the middle of nowhere specifically a beal building that he had scouted near Finnigan's ranch Vinnicombe by then had been killed in a traffic stop in Oregon over the next couple of months the F._B._I.. made him of fake pipe. Pipe bomb and then on June twenty-first Twenty Sixteen Keebler and some of his militia traveled to Arizona and set the bomb outside. The building keyboard pushed the button on a fake detonator the F._B._i.. Gave Him and then the next morning they arrested tested in cops picnic brought me and I'm handcuff misguide comes in and dressed a bigger shitting green on his face allowed Mr neighbor trying August. You're sorry Yes for two years. They had busted him in all it took was three agents three paid informants in two years of pushing keebler before they convinced him to set off a fake bomb way out in the middle of the desert. It almost makes you wonder if the F. B.. I hadn't been around would keillor's militia have just kept on raising chickens cooking rabbits and being facebook. Nazis entrapment is very hard to proven court. <hes> the burden is it. I is on the defense rather than the prosecution to bring bring the case. This is Karen Greenberg. She's the director of the Center on National Security Forum Law School in New York City so I asked her about the legality of the F._B._i.. Pushing a guy like keebler you when you go to court or when you read the court documents they look very much like you know somebody was placed in the midst of this group was listening and picked up information that was used useful and unusable right and then the other end of the spectrum which is who provided did the munitions who provided the plot who provided the ideology who it's it's at hooper who really ran this. If you look at the active elements of it I just want to note that Greenberg's primary focus is international terrorism and she haughty groups ups but there's some crossover between the cases. She's watched and the Keebler case so so like is it common in the cases that you've watched like this that that someone all say like here's a bomb or hey. Why don't we google a mosque for you you? Hey how about this or do this or an in this case is individual keebler was like I don't know guys like you know and then we went and interviewed him and he said I guess I just got it in my mind. That's what I should do at a certain point okay so the F._B._I.'s defense on one is and it's worth thinking about because it's it's got legitimacy to it which is look. I could have been al Qaeda and if I could get them to do it. Don't you think al-Qaeda guy could get them to do it and it works with the jury it works and because what they say to the jury areas. Would you said yesterday this F._B._I.. Guy So maybe that's the logic to the keebler case that if the feds could get to Keebler someone with a plan and target and connections to a bombmaker could too so so he belonged in jail but this interpretation of the law is fairly new controversial the basic rules that they're called the attorney. General guidelines required an F._B._i.. Agent to have have a reasonable indication that criminal activity may occur in the nineteen ninety. S Michael German was an undercover F._B._i.. Agent who went inside militia groups in the Pacific northwest he works for the Brennan Center for Justice now but his previous previous work was infiltrating white supremacist and Neo Nazi groups German tells me that before nine eleven in order to investigate someone the F._B._I.. Needed a reasonable indication that that person was about to commit a crime pretty low standard. I hit most most F._B._I.. Agents wake wake up in the morning pretty suspicious but after nine eleven the Bush administration wrote new guidelines allowing the F._B._i.. To investigate pretty much anyone. Why would you want to investigate somebody you? I don't have a reasonable factual basis to believe are doing something wrong. I mean this doesn't make any sense and clearly what it opens. Up Is the opportunity to to target people who who you don't like German says that in order order to watch someone all the F._B._i.. Needs a theory that maybe that person could commit a crime someday in the future initially it was mostly used against Muslims but has broadened out because it's a successful tactic as far as the F._B._i.. V._I._P. is concerned it is broadened out other groups and my concern with that is your targeting. The lowest hanging fruit right not pretty much describes keebler the low hanging fruit after sitting in talking with him for three hours. I'm not convinced he could put a bomb plot together. He didn't have any targets identified. He didn't know how to build a bomb and when it's defense attorney found those text messages at the F._B._I.. Waffling about whether or not they were putting crazy ideas into who crazy guys head government offered him a plea deal. Even keebler says the F._B._I.. Got To him well. They was held bitten determined to do something and I guess I kinda. Let it get my head that maybe if we did something to Kinda learn road kind of like a warning signal. There are two ways to look at Keebler I as a man with the potential to commit violence because the F._B._i.. May Have given him the bomb but he still hit the button and to be honest. It's easier to see him that way day as an off his rocker militia member but that's probably too easy of an answer because whatever he did he probably wouldn't have been able to do it without the F._B._I.'s help. So how much blame does he really deserve whichever version of bill keebler there's more accurate guy were talking to here at Denny's is a paranoid man who thinks to the government may actually be justified in that paranoia at one point in our conversation. He went silent then told us that we were under surveillance and he based on us. Well okay. We'll be in watched F._A.. Or inform you just want bud. Did you see yeah for two years the F._B._I.. Tracked Bill Keebler and now he sees them everywhere. They're watching him when he smokes in his backyard goes goes to the grocery store. They're hiding in plain sight serving coffee at Denny's just to get to him. It's not every day you talked to someone who's tried to bomb building and I have to say for a while talking to Keebler. I felt like the F._B._I.. Had totally missed the mark and basically manipulated and otherwise innocent man so they could get a conviction but about an hour into our conversation things took a hard turn and he didn't seem so innocent Jason Anymore. In fact it became very hard to talk to him. It happened when I asked him about how he thinks. The federal government should work think about your ideal situation with the federal government the state government would that look like like would that would that running their own themselves the government doing the job they were meant to be. The government's purpose is basically for foreign affairs. He says that the government can do. It's thing trading rating with China in Korea it is no damn business running Utah Georgia or Texas then he starts talking about how Muslims are taking over schools. You can't do pledge allegiance in school with now. We got Muslims praying and everything else in in the hallways in our schools and in our classrooms and teachers are now making kids dress up like Muslims I._S.. Keebler give me an example where this was happening but he just said number places yeah they've taken over host cities. They WANNA stop prayer. They won't stop all the American stuff boy scouts and everything make an Islam. They're out in the streets right me with hundreds of Alan to shut down hole rose in concert standing over mixture. Nobody erupts them. Are you serious badly tanks for about fifty rednecks before pickup trucks will end up. Bro Keebler is advocating for something that sounds like intimidation at best and slaughtering Muslims in the streets of America Erica at the worst and it's all informed by his conspiratorial world view. Maybe this is the kind of talk the brought the F._B._I.. To him I don't know tops now. They're dressed up. They got well. It looks like police cars and what looks like police uniforms reforms in Iran doing what they want near there was a god. It was preaching Christianity to up there. He's been arrested. It's only Internet right now need to get homework. You think the federal you think the federal government is in volved. Evolved in that or you just think earlier it should be no shock at this point to tell you that Keebler is also an ardent donald trump supporter. He loves him and HE HATES BARACK. Obama thinks he's a part of some deep state plot turn America until the Muslim only nation but his the agreement that they put him in the president is that he would make way for more Muslims to be again in the United States. This was actually come out recently. I wanted to news some reporters. Here is made president of more Muslims. Yes he arranged to be able to like Soros is financing. A lot of a lot of this is about the new world order looked pedophilia going on right now. They can kill a child hours after it's been born they keep it alive long enough. The organs to develop didn't kill the kid and hardship for parts at this point in our interview Keillor's looking at Ryan than I like. We're crazy like how do we not know any of this. I can't believe I don't know none of this and we're looking at Keebler. Like how crazy do you have to be to believe this stuff at this point in our conversation. It was hard to know how to continue talking to Keebler. I feel like I understand how far down a conspiratorial rabbit hole. You have to be nor to detonate a bomb that helps me understand Glenn Jones to but at the same time Keebler is a big and that bigotry has clouded his entire perspective on the world keebler his whole life revolves around conspiracy theories but in the world of militias anti-government groups this is actually nothing new so we got on the phone with with author Jesse Walker to help a guy like keebler context Walker wrote a book called the United States of paranoia. I wanted to understand the rule that conspiracies have played militia groups throughout history. You know in the Cold War era <hes> right wing conspiracy theories to you had groups like the John Birch society sort of shifting from in the nineteen sixties from you know fears where all the the enemy is based in Moscow to fears where the enemy is based in New York and <hes> manipulating Moscow in the ninety s after the Cold War ended events like Ruby Ridge Waco happened conspiracy shifted again but in the nineteen nineties you lose the context of the Cold War in so it's much easier easier. Just SORTA see Washington as the enemy period <hes> you also have on the rise of the Internet and while I'm not someone who's <unk> who argues that the Internet made people more paranoid made people more conspirists. I I do think one thing that it definitely did was allow more mixing among <hes> all these different groups of people who had previously been much more <hes> separate from one another. You know Keebler fits this description description of the modern conspiracy theorist someone looking for target for their anger he was in the army fighting communism. When the Cold War ended he had to look somewhere else and joined up with militias other so-called Patriot groups to fight the government now he's a foot soldier for trump and his new enemies are immigrants and Muslims and women and abortion doctors the bill and George Soros Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama the deep state? He lives in an acid bath conspiracy theories so ask Keebler. Where's all this going in his mind? During the Obama Administration if he declared martial law rallied me rarely around me to Lesser Central Command Post and we'll go from there we start operations at that point that would have been should hit the fan so what's the difference now. What's what's I think trump up declares martial law it would be more controlled manner? He's not come after Patriots Not Malaysian no now she there you go pushing racist. I asked you know they got an able. Keep got angry when I asked him. If this entire world shaded conspiracies government cabals it's really just avail Vail for his racism after he spent an hour telling wildly inaccurate stories about Sharia law and evasions at the border how Muslims are a plague in Christian nation like America. He tells me I'm off base to ask if this all really comes down bigotry built his world around these extremist ideas. He's not willing to back down from them. That much is clear when Ryan Awesome at different question. What do you think happens if the Democrats impeach trump or some kind of charges abroad? What do you think happens with the Patriots over? I'll bet off just what I'm here in seeing on the Internet all bets are off. Was I'll bet you off. You're bill keebler. A guy who tried to blow up government. Building who lives on a steady stream of hate from the Internet says that he's had enough. If anything were to ever happen to his guy trump and he thinks should be time to take up arms again. People are wanting retaliation. They want revenge. They won't pay back for a lot of things this abortion crap what had milivoy what is happening to our children what has happened to our streets was that Mirage schools people want retribution for that. They want what Shit Stop. I still don't know what to make Keebler. I'm not sure he can really tell us anything about Glen Jones but if you look at Keebler on what changed before and after the Bunkerville and Malheur standoffs the biggest differences that afterward the F._B._i.. Turned his world upside down pushed him toward toward violence. It's not illegal to believe racist things. Our country is built on the idea that you have the right to complain about the government so it's not really clear to me if the F._B._I.'s own conspiring to get Keebler help take dangerous guy off the streets for a few years or made a blowhard into a radical who could snap of the political winds change but what I do think keebler case makes clear as somebody who can be influenced into taking action keillor's. There's paranoia and belief in nearly every conspiracy he comes across seems to open this crack in his worldview that seemingly anyone can exploit. He's an attack dog waiting for a command. It happened with the F._B._i.. When he pushed the button and it happened was a little voice finicky him when he plotted Trapiel agents in a memo included with his court records? The government wrote that after keebler pushed the button on their bomb he told the agents this isn't about Lavoix. It's what he stood for. Four so keebler in Glen Jones make at least two people in a two month timeframe invoking finnigan's name as they carried out a violent action which got me wondering about how many more people influenced by what finicky supposedly stood four and if those people really knew what he stood for or if they had just as keebler might say read on the Internet Phantom seems to have this outsized influence on the Patriot movement because he died so why does some desk fade away and others become Cadillac for violence. That's next time on Bundy Ville. This episode was written by me. Liam <unk> Peter Frick right and Ryan has music by Robbie carver. This series is produced by Peter and Robbie from thirty minutes West. We had editorial oversight from Kelley Stout Mike Dang An- Anna Griffin in fact checking by Matt Giles Research help from Kim Freda especial thanks to David study for his feedback on this series and to Denny's restaurants for letting US interview Bill Keebler there for three hours even if you're all all secret F._B._I.. Agents Bonneville is a co-production of long reads in Oregon public broadcasting their members make this show possible so if you like this type of journalism please visit their websites long rates dot com or opie dot org.

Finnigan Keebler keebler Keebler Jones Bill Keebler Keebler Group Keebler Patriots Oregon keillor United States Brad Miller cliven Bundy Arizona Ryan Obama Bundy Ville Utah Bunkerville Bonneville
The Threat of White Nationalist Terrorism

Words Matter

42:24 min | 1 year ago

The Threat of White Nationalist Terrorism

"Welcome to words matter with katie barlow and joe lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm katie barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled bill to their own opinion not their own facts words have power and words have consequences joe last week. You sat down with darrelle johnson the former senior domestic terrorism analyst at the department of homeland security and the a._t._f. Johnson wrote a two thousand ninety eight just report on right wing extremism that predicted a lot of what is happening today now. Usually we do what else is on your mind at the end of the show but given given all of the issues involved last week. We wanted to talk about gun control at the top so joe twenty years ago. You were the white house press secretary during columbine in april twentieth nineteen ninety nine and sadly nothing has really changed since then talk about gun control from a political perspective where where is the debate politically yeah well. You're you're right to mention columbine. I was the president's press secretary then i went and to the oval office and let him know that the shooting had happened and <hes> then traveled with about two littleton colorado <hes> to visit with the community the school the families the president went family to family talk to every single family as long as they wanted to talk <hes> we were there for hours and as we walked out of there i think we all had a common sense of resolve aw that we were gonna fix this problem <hes> and we worked at it and used every amount of political capital. We had and we just couldn't move the ball. The <hes> entrenched interests in whether it's the n._r._a. The gun manufacturers the republican party stood against making any change doing anything to make the country safer and <hes> we had another moment <hes> during president obama's presidency a win newtown connecticut where where you know young children were killed. <hes> it just the worst thing that i think any of us have ever seen and again. There was resolved. President obama put put everything on the line and again. Nothing happened <hes> parkland florida you name it. <hes> virginia tech nothing happens and my prediction is one of the reasons says we're gonna focus today not on gun control but on domestic in white nationalist terrorism his because nothing is going to happen again so whether it's columbine newtown parkland dayton el paso this has been going on for twenty years. We hear a lot of i thought's and prayers we hear a lot of we're going to get something done this time twenty years on. I don't expect anything to change and i have to tell you <hes> if you'd asked me walking out of columbine high school twenty years ago. Would we be here today. I would have said you're crazy that the country knows oh so we've got to do something about it but the entrenched interests <hes> continue to win and i don't see that changing even near twenty years on yeah i agree i i was eleven years old at the time and the daughter of to public school teachers and the conversation around the kitchen table and and the teacher conference room table bowl which i was privy to at the time just because i had two of them in my household was about how we treated students in the classroom. They blamed aimed video games. The matrix was popular at the time and so was you know kind of goth clothing for making trenchcoats cool and violence attractive. There are a lot of things as we blamed but they also knew that there was a gun problem at the time and i'm curious what the conversation was like at the white house during those months afterward afterward and if the conversation was initially about video games and afford just recycling the same exact talking points twenty years later that we saw on on fox news this past weekend that video games are to blame here and solving that and more prayer in school will help solve the entire issue. I think video games have been an issue for the last twenty years. They are not central to the gun control issue. There's no science that shows there's a causal relationship affect their science and scientific studies show that there is no causal relationship between violent video games and those who commit mass murder and and there is increasing evidence that the real threat the growing threat in this country over the last decade has been white nationalist terrorism domestic terrorism. There is all sorts of evidence of that and that's something we need to focus on right. These really are two distinct issues so let's listen to your your interview with domestic terrorism expert darrell johnson our guest today is darrel johnson a former senior domestic terrorism some analysts at the department of homeland security and the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms back in two thousand nine. He wrote a v._h._s. report on right wing extremism that was widely circulated in both the law enforcement community and the press darrell johnson. Welcome to words manner thank you. I tell me a little bit about the experience that you brought to the table to be an expert on a domestic right wing terrorism yes of my interest in this. This topic actually goes all the way back when i was fifteen years old i remember reading about a standoff between some white supremacists and the f. b. I. down in arkansas on a remote mountain region on the shores of a lake and this group was called the covenant sword arm of the lord and i was just curious as a young man y a church <hes> would basically take people from their jobs and move out to this remote area cut off ties to family members and await the second coming of jesus and prepare for armageddon and <hes> that just kind of something i was interested in and as i grew older <hes> and went to college and majored in criminal justice i did papers on these types of groups and later turned that into federal career <hes> so i started out a ah the army counterintelligence center at fort meade and <hes> was studying terrorism over in asia and also latin america and right after the oklahoma city bombing <hes> they need someone to help with the force protection effort here in the continental united states so that's when i started my career looking at these types types of groups and <hes> that eventually led me to the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms where i really gained my expertise supporting agents in the field and their investigations and later later win over the homeland security department to head a team of analysts we hear a lot about <hes> all of the work all of the money all the personnel that goes into fighting islamic terrorism terrorism that originates outside the united states. Can you compare that investment to what we do. Domestically yes so new in comparison those analysts that look at domestic terrorism can be measured in the dozens <hes> throughout the federal government where we've got hundreds of analysts us looking at <hes> overseas threats in the intelligence community where i worked for a number of years <hes> we've got entire agencies that have counter-terrorism offices his <hes> with hundreds of people looking at foreign threats. I'm talking about the c._i._a. N._s._a. The military services <hes> even the f._b._i. <hes> but here domestically <hes> the only agency that really has fulltime resources devoted to this topic is the f._b._i. I let a very small team of analysts at homeland security ready for about six years looking at this topic but my unit was shut down in the aftermath of the report that i wrote no nine so i'll come to that in a minute but is is it fair to say that we have chronically under invested in domestic terrorism over the last couple of decades that is a fact and that's something that i've been trying to raise as awareness in the media about so. Let's go to your report. You write a report for d h s what prompted you to write the report. What did it say and what was the reaction. Yes so two years earlier in two thousand seven <hes>. I received a call from the u._s. Capitol police tipping us off that <hes> an african american can senator from illinois barack obama was considering running for president and they wanted our unit <hes> to basically monitor the internet chatter from extremists and to see if there is any threats directed to barack obama so after about a month or two after he had announced his <hes> running for president. We didn't really see any threats. It was only when he won the democratic nomination that the threat started rolling in and we started handing that information off to both the secret service as well as the capitol police right after we. We received that requests for information. I pulled my analyst together and ask them <hes>. You know what if what if barack obama the first african american <hes> <hes> gets elected to the presidency. What is that going to do to the threat landscape in this country because overwhelmingly since nine eleven are u._s. Counterterrorism efforts have been looking at both al qaeda overseas coming into the united states as well as those radicalizing within the united states who are muslim or sympathize with al qaeda <hes> and we all agree that <hes> these white supremacists and anti-government groups would get very agitated an active <hes> an african-american became the president at the white house so that's when we started collecting information <hes> pulling sources from the world wide web state local law enforcement reporting federal reporting being non-government organisations civil rights organizations and we just started collecting <hes> any and all information related to <hes> threats <hes> because has of having a black president to other things that factored into the report was the downturn in the economy that we had an overweight and how that served as kind of a fertile ground to recruit more people into anti-government groups and we also had returning veterans coming back from the wars in afghanistan and iraq who we were concerned about being targeted for recruitment <unk> by these groups so that's kind of the genesis of how the report was put together put together over an eighteen month period <hes> went through twenty-three rewrites <hes> coordinated with multiple agencies and we put it out. We brief napolitano <hes> about couple of days before it was released and everybody thought it was a great report now. How napolitano is janet napolitano. Who's the head of d h s at the time before against the reaction i wanna have you looked back a little bit. According to the report and some subsequent testimony you gave to congress you noticed an uptick in domestic groups activity <hes> terrorist oh groups extremist groups not just because of obama by because of a democratic president you saw something during the clinton administration game we had oklahoma city so was is your concern that they the extremist groups were both anti african american but anti liberal democrats yes so looking at this issue over the past four decades <hes> i've seen cycles when we have democrats and power typically the far right gets is more active and agitated because they're fearful of gun legislation being passed or they're fearful of the democrats expanding rights to minority groups favoring favoring immigration things like that typically during republican administrations these right wing extremist groups decrease their activities and we see more of the far left getting active and agitated because they're fearful of the republicans deregulating various industries that are polluting the environment and also giving tax breaks to the rich so that's kind of the cycles that i've seen over the past forty years and of course this current administration bucks the trend of these cycles michaels. We've got these right. Wing groups still continuing to operate a heightened level under a republican administration will come to that because i think that's a really interesting point but tell me about <hes> the report went went through twenty three rewrites interagency went to janet napolitano. What happened to the report yeah so we release it a few days. After briefing the secretary of homeland land security and <hes> we were very pleased with the results we thought we done a good job at warning <hes> state local law enforcement of this <hes> anticipated paid change and the threat landscape <hes> so that they could have some <hes> ability to kind of prepare and develop policies and devote resources and money to combat the problem and to my surprise <hes> the report was leaked immediately and the next thing i know coming into the office <hes> the following week utter chaos us had broken out in the office because we were being inundated with phone calls from concerned citizens thinking that we were pro- <hes> spying conservatives <hes> we had congressman calling being <hes> demanding to know the sourcing that was involved in creating the report and it was all over the conservative media as well as mainstream media <hes> but the conservative the media tended to take a more negative approach to the story <hes> saying that <hes> we were spying on conservatives that we were <hes> demonizing and painting. Can you know conservatives as being potential terrorists military vets felt like they were slander because we had mentioned that possibility than being recruited <hes> and so it turned into to this big political firestorm which you know. I never anticipated basically what you're saying. Is you ran into dc politics with the benefit of having some time reflect on it. Do you have any further understanding of why <hes> conservatives and republicans were more interested in the politics of this than the substance yes very unfortunate that the warning and message got lost in all this <hes> political mudslinging <hes> but looking back on in it <hes> there were a couple of things that i think fed into this republican backlash to the report. <hes> the first thing was <hes> unbeknownst to me. A new movement within the republican party called the tea party had formed and we're holding protests throughout the country around the same time this <hes> report was disseminated. <hes> the second thing the republicans were coming off some tough losses in the two thousand eight election not only did they lose the white house <hes> but they also lot lost a lot of seats in congress and the the senate and the house so i think they were just kind of looking for anything that they could use to try to drum up. New base of support in anticipation is a patient of the two thousand ten midterms and my report became that as an analyst not a political operative. You're surprised by this <hes>. I think i know from reading that you are a registered republican. You're not crazy. Liberal like a <hes> didn't the reaction of two thousand nine to bury the report <hes> and criticized the report <hes> in some ways set us up for where we are now and in some ways make the country west safe. That's correct <hes> because my report was politicized. Not only was the warning and message lost but created a chilling effect throughout the law enforcement and intelligence communities you know in in my office <hes> not only did we get all this scrutiny from both the public in congress <hes> but people few people lost their jobs. <hes> a group of analysts were retaliated against people inside the intelligence and law enforcement communities saw this happen and they're like well. This could happen to darrell. Who's got all this training in in in in analytical skills this could certainly happen to to me and so the topic of domestic terrorism is already a political minefield because we're talking talking about extremist movements that focused on very divisive issues here in america like gun rights and immigration and abortion rights and other things so this is kind of exacerbated aspirated the situation in and made people even less <hes> willing to follow this topic and my monitor it properly and so here we are ten years later. If people would have taken my report seriously we would have devoted more money and resources to the problem we would have mature not only intelligence but law enforcement <hes> programs and countering bovine extremism programs that could have stemmed this threat somewhat. That must be personally very disappointing for you. Yes frustrating disappointing in really really sad. <hes> because lives have been lost. This problem has just grown year after year month after month and the body counts are getting larger with each attack not too long ago there was a time when we would have to three or four people killed <hes> now. We're up to twenty two in el paso taking it away from politics for a second what drives these people. <hes> you know i think both your report and even more your testimony before congress in two thousand twelve got into some of the root causes i. I was hoping you could share them with our listeners. Yes so we identified. A number of root causes in the two thousand nine report. One was the unprecedented election of having an african african american elected to president. This is like the white supremacists <hes> worst nightmare come true <hes> i remember as a teenager going into us bookstores and and seeing joke books that had racist jokes and things of this nature talk about to win a black occupies the white house then you'll know that america has descended into a crap hole in that it'd be at its lowest point so this is what these big gets in hate groups <hes> talk about chatter of course the economic downturn <hes> <hes> created fertile ground for anti-government groups <hes> such a sovereign citizens that exploit people who are financially desperate try to feed them a bunch of conspiracy theories theories and the different <hes> things about why the economy collapsed and how they can use these pseudo legal maneuvers to get out from under their credit debts. Let's and then of course having a democrat empower again agitates some of the anti-government tights because they're fearful of gun legislation and you know fringe men on their second second amendment rights but there's a whole host of things that play into these <hes> cycles. Those are just a few i notice in some of your writings that free trade is one the most difficult issues to really understand the details of but it's a driver of right wing extremism some ways yeah four outsourcing of jobs jobs unemployment <hes> when people i guess aren't focused on their livelihood <hes> their mind tends to wander. I guess there's that old phrase than in an idle mind becomes the devil's workshop <hes> certainly applies to these <hes> extremists and how they go about marketing their message so let's fast forward to the current situation relation i i'm interested in the information flow to these right wing extremist groups to domestic terrorists. Let me start with the media fox fox news info wars <hes> how important are they <hes> in providing the the content in the fuel to to the hate and and to <hes> eventually the <hes> the terror axa. We've seen yes so whenever media organizations <hes> take a strong stance against certain issues and start raising the rhetoric on these types of issues. You're always risking pushing those on the outer fringes ges <hes> who are on the brink of acting off the edge to the point where they conduct acts of violence so words do matter <hes> from our politicians from the media <hes> and then you have even more extreme <hes> forms of media like alex jones info wars and shortwave radio programs that get people spun spun up and more agitated with the rhetoric and the tone that they take. It's one thing to watch fox news and if you're wack may bang my head against the wall and say it's making people crazy but it sounds like you're saying that this actually does help mobilise these groups and mobilize them in a way that they take action. Yes so we saw <hes> <hes> couple of incidents in the past year. Two were extremists were mobilized into taking a stand against a government. I'm referring to the bundy ranch standoff off and bunkerville nevada as well as the mao here wildlife refuge takeover the way the media conservative media kind of handled that as they try to talk about these people people being patriotic and doing the right thing and taking a stand against the government but in reality you're emboldened these people by reporting the news in that way <hes> these people all pointed guns at federal law enforcement officers <hes> they took over a federal facility for over a month destroyed some of the federal facility so rather rather than painting these groups as patriotic and standing up to the government. They need to be called out for what they are. They're radicals their extreme <hes> some of them turn into terrorist. I <hes> these ideologies <hes> that these groups belong to <hes> make calls for violence and provide the targets for these radicals to go after one of of the more interesting things in reading your work is the difficulty in combating domestic terrorism is not the traditional terrorist cells that can be disrupted upped but you know what you call the lone wolf problem. Can you talk a little bit about that. Yes so back in the eighties. These terrorist groups here in america were successfully infiltrated by law enforcement and a lot of their activities in groups were disrupted and people arrested <hes> so in lieu of that <hes> <hes> the domestic extremists have adopted this leaderless resistance strategy. It's actually based on an essay written by prominent white supremacists who was a vietnam veteran taran who studied the art of warfare wrote the essay called leaderless resistance which calls for people to self train to identify targets gets within your community not to talk about what your plans are not affiliate with groups because there's the risk of informants and agent provocateurs tour's within the groups themselves and so you operate and stealth in secret and you secretly plan and plot and prepare for your attack <hes> so this as you can imagine poses a unique problem for law enforcement because it's very difficult to identify and prevent these people from in carrying out their attacks on the other hand <hes> because you don't have a professional training camp or some professional bombmaker teaching the bombmaking skills a lot a lot of these terrorists capabilities are less sophisticated so you don't get the sensational type of tax that you would see from an isis or al qaeda cell so that's it's kind of how they operate. Those are the tactics that they use. They do it deliberately so that they could avoid law enforcement detection so it's clear from the way your report was buried and your your congressional testimony in the lack of action <hes> that we're not doing enough if we made you king for a day <hes> what do we need to do. What what steps does our government government needs to take. I take this threat seriously and then to combat it. There's so much that we can be doing. We're so far behind the curve <hes> trying to catch up with this threat. That's had ten years to grow and into fester <hes> it all starts with recognizing <hes> these acts of violence as terrorism and with that comes the ability to start tracking it and gathering statistics and then you can gauge whether it's growing or whether it's <hes> decreasing and at that point <hes> if you decide that it's increasing and getting worse we can devote resources and money towards the problem <hes> as far as where route focused. My efforts is going to be multifaceted from the federal level you need more agents and analysts devoted to investigating and assessing this threat <hes> <hes> are countering violent extremism program that we have in place currently is exclusively focused on countering radical islamic extremists <hes> that program needs to be the expanded to have an equal balance between both non-islamic and islamic extremists <hes> training these to be improved and increased for for our state and local law enforcement officers analysts that are on the front lines of dealing with these extremist groups from the community level. <hes> people need to get involved. <hes> <hes> they've got friends family members or relatives that are embracing these extremist beliefs <hes> rather than isolate them and ostracize them. We need to embrace race these people and bring them back into the mainstream society and give them a cause to live four politely challenge and humorously challenged some of these extremist beliefs jason you know try to rationally explain how their poisonous to the mind in that there is something that <hes> is not welcome in today's modern society so there's a lot the things we could do. It's got to be a top down approach as well as a bottom up approach so we're in reading your report from two thousand you anticipated the election of a republican publican donald trump in two thousand sixteen to tamp down a right wing extremism of it's not quite what happened known we can. Thank the heated political. Go rhetoric of the two thousand sixteen campaign for the continued rise in heightened activity of these groups <hes> this current administration needs to understand and that when you mainstream extremist ideas such as building border walls in banning muslims to travel the united states and mass deportation of immigrants grunts these were extremist ideas that i read about ten or fifteen years ago on white nationalist websites <hes> now they're being endorsed as policy by administration astray shen also retweeting messages from conspiracy sites about muslims an extremist sites again. It's giving a green light to these extremists is that they have somebody in the presidency that tacitly supports their belief system and their movements and turning a blind eye to what they're doing and and so they're looking at that as a license to misbehave and to conduct acts of violence when i was reading your report and you talked about the root causes beyond beyond just hatred of change patriot of african americans and you started digging into economic anxiety to <hes> immigration anti free trade agreements to me read like the trump campaign seemed to be built <hes> and the foundation of it was this white nationalist this philosophy that you had studied in the nineties and through two thousand twelve at least yeah definitely catered to the extremist message and created a support base you recently told a columnist for the new york times that <hes> what surprised you with trump <hes> or with a republican winning was it it increased and you talked about what trump has done is added fuel to the fire. How's he done that. He does that through <hes> demonizing using and dehumanizing his opponents. Whether it's the democrats <hes> whether it's the media calling it fake news weather. It's immigrants coming into the country calling them invaders or an invasion likening people to rodents calling third world countries crap whole countries. This is all the tone in rhetoric of bigotry and hatred <hes> kinda stirs up the radicals <hes> to the point where they start looking at these people as targets you said mainstreaming ideas i think about it <hes> along the same lines as normalizing <hes> right wing extremist views <hes> and giving a green light to domestic terrorists to move ahead where they didn't feel like they had that before i i think of it from a political point of view but you have the expertise. Do you think that president trump has normalized this behavior and has that been a trigger for for some of these domestic attacks. Yes he's allowed this environment to persist as well as become more pervasive when he uses that rhetoric that i've talked about <hes> when we had charlottesville and other attacks he tries to minimize the threat he tries to s- <hes> say that the far or left and the far-right pose an equal thread or try to say that there's good people in these rallies and protests again. These are all things that it kind of <hes> emboldened these extremists and give them a permissive environment to operate. I wanna read something that you wrote in your congressional testimony in two thousand in twelve <hes> and then just pose a question to you you wrote i often describe extremist ideology and by law enforcement training as a poison absorbed into a person's person's mind extremist ideology uses deception half truths and blatantly false and often over simplistic explanations to solve complex national issues or personal problems. Extremist ideologies are quick to blame others for these problems often providing justification for violence wants and criminal activities scapegoats are also given people organizations and institutions providing a lengthy list of potential targets to avenge install grievances. I read that and i thought it was one of the most profound and accurate descriptions of donald trump. I've ever read <hes> may be taking out the last the sentence. Do you see trump as someone who engages in the same type of blatant falsehoods have troops sort of self defense mechanisms mechanisms that seem to characterize many of these domestic terrorist groups. He's speaking their language. He's trying to take their ideas and implementable. Policies sees you know we've seen two recent examples of how trump's rhetoric inspired people to conduct acts of violence. The one shooter that we had adenola paso left a manifesto and used the very same language that our president used to describe immigrants as invaders as an invasion as rodents <hes> <hes> we also had the serial bomber last year right before the election that serial bomber targeted all of those trump opponents the fake news that trump says <hes> the democrats <hes> that trump opposes so by merely dehumanizing these people <hes> there's certain <hes> radicals out there that may be mentally unstable that may just be waiting for something to to serve as a catalyst to egg them on to fall through with their plans. <hes> those two recent examples right there were words from the president actually inspired people to target the opponents of the presidency. Give give me your worst case scenario over the next couple of years assuming trump continues in his presidency of this issue of this problem yeah i think i think that we're at a point now where these groups are going to continue to operate at a heightened level even if trump's not reelected <hes> because we've we've neglected this topic. We haven't devoted any resources or money to really combat it. It's head ten years to grow if we decided today to devote all the money resources is to vote at this problem. It's still going to take many years for us to slow the momentum down and we're also at across point in our country where the demographics are changing changing the very fact and that's what's pushing a lot of these <hes> white supremacists and other extremists over the edge and wanting to commit acts of violence is because they see america's this color is changing from white brown and <hes> they don't like that and they want to do something about it so unfortunately i don't have a very optimistic view of the next few years you. That's the worst case. Give me some sense of hope here that we can address this problem well. The only hope that i see at this point is we finally have government officials including the president calling this as terrorism <hes> whether or not he continues to have that same aimed view or whether he truly believes that at least that's the very first step is to try to recognize and identify the problem <hes> so that is the only thing i doc at hope. <hes> cling onto at this point is being hopeful <hes> so hopefully <hes> these recent attacks <hes> the fact that they're getting worse than that more more more people being and killed and injured <hes> that our government officials legislators law enforcement and the executive branch will finally wake up and identify this problem and do what's necessary aid to combat it. I have no doubt that when and if president trump listens to this podcast <hes> his tweet wilt call you things like nasty the and loser but <hes> anyone who recognizes that words matter on this podcast we love and certainly listening to you. I think most of the country would disagree with the president would call you a patriot <hes> and we deeply appreciate the work you've done <hes> it's tragic that much of it has been ignored nor for so long but as you said <hes> it is coming to the forefront i encourage you to continue to speak out and get people to pay attention to this is because the threat to america particularly listening to the f._b._i. Director recently <hes> the threat is inside this country and it's it's more dangerous than the threat outside. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your insight and wisdom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate those kind words important interview joe. What surprised you the most what surprised me the most actually was this is a guy who's a registered republican this. This guy who at fifteen years old was <hes> reading up on criminal justice and wanted to be involved in the f._b._i. The a._t._f. <hes> not some you know crazy liberal and he drew a straight line between donald trump's rhetoric and the el paso <hes> mass mass murderer and he drew a straight line between republican resistance to taking on this issue <hes> and the fact that these groups jobs have been able to grow while the republicans forced us to look the other way <hes> again <hes> i think his work is invaluable that the end of all of these things. There's always a look back and i think we're going to be. We're going to see that there are there. There is blood on the hands of a lot the people in the conservative movement whether it be politicians media <hes> the president for ignoring this problem and ignoring it in a way and dismissing missing it while these groups were allowed to grow okay now back to regularly scheduled end of the episode. What's on your mind joe the first issue we he wanted to get your thoughts on this week is teleprompter trump versus twitter trump last week in the aftermath of the el paso in dayton shootings. President trump read a statement from teleprompter l. A. prompter in what some commentators said looked like a hostage video explain for us joe teleprompter trump versus twitter trump and why it matters well teleprompter tur- trump is when the president gets serious look on his face and actually reads the words on the teleprompter. That's not donald trump. We know it's not donald trump <hes> because each and every time within a few hours he's negated everything he said this time <hes> his speech was <hes> <hes> <hes> unity over racism and each and every time he's he's absolutely turned around and said something different now. If you want to know what the real donald trump thinks redes- tweets and watch him afterwards i watch him after he seen the press coverage when you look at the dayton and el paso trips there's part of it that the only way i can describe it as sickening teleprompter trump should be ignored. It doesn't mean anything <hes> the real. Donald trump is the nasty tacking narcissistic. It's all about me trump. It's all about the respect for him. <hes> that you see when he's not on teleprompter when he's speaking and in his tweets joe you actually just quoted from <hes> the new york times headline which said initially quote trump urges unity versus racism the new york times took a lot of heat for that headline headline and after some significant outrage on social media the times editors changed to quote a sailing hate but not guns what did you make of last week's headline gate as we called it and why is it important the new york times screwed up their headline bought into the trump's speech and and gave it <hes> what i'll call contextual credibility like he gave this speech and he said these things many times so of course that's what what he meant when in fact he's not said these things and the headline <hes> failed to capture the complexity of the situation and what happened in that room that morning and people were outraged and making the argument of cancel your subscription to the new york times i looked at that and i thought that's the wrong thing to do. I tend to agree with you joe. I my one question and this is one that i saw from. Some of our listeners on twitter is how else can you communicate indicate the message to editors at the new york times that the way that they handle certain stories or even president trump in particular <hes> headlines <hes> is not where it should be that there's room for improvement other than not renewing your subscription or canceling your subscription. Is there another effective way to communicate that message. We now have a way to express our outrage twitter social other social media platforms and i i think it it it forced the new york times to look at their headline and say did we get this right and i give them credit for <hes> making a change and recognizing that they made a mistake we know things about russia's interference with our elections about what's going going on in north korea what's going on in china that we wouldn't know without the new york times and canceling. Your subscription is doing exactly what donald trump rob and the republicans want you to do. They want you to know less. They want you to not believe what you see and read so i think it's absolutely wrong to cancel your subscription. The new york times is businesses lots of ways to send a message but to say i am going to get the new york times out of my life and stopped supporting it through subscription and i think as a little bit crazy and finally joe while all that was going on last week. President trump escalated his trade war with china the u._s. Treasury officially declared china a currency manipulator the first time it has done so since nineteen ninety four aside from the trade wars being easy to win. What did you make of trump's escalation of the trade war with china to state the obvious trade wars are not easy to win trade wars generally the <hes>. It's just agrees of how much you lose at least in american history. We've had disastrous trade wars <hes> going back over the last one hundred fifty years. I can't think of a trade war <hes> where we didn't suffer. It is just terrible economic policy. This is a really interesting case will this. We brought on ourselves. We started the trade war <hes> and now we've got to figure out a way to make sure that the u. s. china trade relationship does not deteriorate into a worldwide contagion that will lead to worldwide recession or even depression. <hes> larry summers immerse one of the best economic thinkers of our generation <hes> wrote last week that we are now heading towards a worldwide economic crisis because of the u._s. china china a trade war that trump started and he made the point that trump has started something that he has no concept of how to get himself out of so in doubling down around this week. He's made the likelihood of a worldwide economic crisis more likely. I'm not an economist but i do know politics six and i think if we look forward a year i think it's very likely this is going to be the number one or number a two issue in the campaign that the economy is slowing that people were paying higher prices and that the cause of all of this was donald trump you know <hes> donald trump's at forty one percent approval rating commission what his approval rating will be when the economy isn't strong so <hes> and people are feeling even more pain than they feel now so i think this is perhaps the issue that republicans wanted to run on today a year from now. I have a feeling we're going to be in a different place. We'll certainly come back a year from now and <hes> issue a report card on that projection action but i have a feeling you are probably right. I think that's all we've got for you this week joe. Thanks for joining us until next week. Thanks katie thank you for listening to words matter for more information on our show and hosts visit words matter media dot com please. He's rate and review words matter on apple podcasts and other podcast providers.

donald trump president analyst america white house joe lockhart the new york times united states congress obama republican party el paso china columbine high school virginia darrelle johnson katie barlow
The Revenge of Rural America

It Could Happen Here

43:48 min | 2 years ago

The Revenge of Rural America

"This is the zodiac speaking. I am the motor of the taxi driver over by Washington street and maple street last night to prove this. Here's a bloodstained piece of his shirt, the thing that makes it interesting is this guy was the ethical you could be anybody. He could be your on Bill could be the guy living next door. Whatever I think we're fifty years. I do it's time to solve the case the entire season of monster. The zodiac killer is available now. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. We don't usually think of the American right wing as protesters or activists conservatives tend to be older for one thing. And they also tend to be on the side of state power the site of law and order, liberals and leftists are more likely to agitate for major changes in the status quo. But right wing activism is unheard of. Either. In recent experience has made it clear that when the right stands up. They can make a serious impact. The two thousand fourteen Bundy standoff made national news with started as a confrontation over cliven Bundy refusal to pay grazing fees to the bureau of land management turned into a minor right wing uprising against state control, hundreds of militiamen from all over the country clad in body armor and packing military grade weaponry stood against federal law enforcement agents and made them back down the militiamen got their way, more or less, and they got their way. Again, two years later when cliven Bundy Suns led a group that occupied the malheur wildlife refuge in Oregon. I was actually near the malheur refuge for a little. Of that not at the refuge itself. But in the town of burns, Oregon talking to locals about what it was like to live through the armed insurrection of a far, right militia, people told me stories and militiamen roaring through town in pick-up trucks, carrying guns into local businesses and terrifying residents the way they describe these men reminded me more than a little of how citizens of Constantinescu a city in eastern Ukraine described the Russian backed separatists who briefly occupied their city. Some of these men were literal Russian soldiers, of course, but others were foreigners and local partisans people with no military training, but a love of guns and feeling powerful. Now in both Bundy, occupations, the specific justification for what they were doing was not something with a lot of broad appeal. Their grievances were niche in rural most people who didn't live near malheur viewed the entire thing as something of a silly farce. The occupiers were mailed dick shaped candies and care packages and mocked as y'all Kedah. It is a great nickname. But I don't think most Americans really realize how fucking terrifying a true. Y'all Kedah would be a few thousand sufficiently motivated organized an angry rural Americans have the power to bring this nation to its knees. In the last episode of it could happen here. I envisioned the start of a second American civil war driven by President Trump's refusal to leave office and a series of urban left wing uprisings today. We're going to look at another possibility one that involves the other half of the American political equation today. We're talking about the revenge of rural America exit polls taken in the two thousand sixteen election revealed that a whopping three quarters of Americans felt the country was growing more divided ground zero for this divide was the split between rural and urban voters. One way to look at Donald Trump's upset victory is revenge of rural America rural areas across the country. Saw an unprecedented turnout and those Americans voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump Representative Tom Cole Republican from Oklahoma said this at the time, we've got some big 'schisms out there rural America's much more. Republican than ever before in the two thousand eighteen midterm elections. The urban rural divide in America was even more pronounced only twenty nine percent of democratic voters. Lived in rural areas the remainder being suburban or urban for comparison. A whopping forty six percent of Republican voters live in rural areas. Only nineteen percent live in cities urban and rural America see each other as increasingly two different nations. The one strong commonality between them is that they both believe the other chunk of America hates them. A two thousand eighteen pew survey revealed that majorities of both urban and rural America believed the rest of the country, quote looks down on them. Here's the New York Times. Quote, Pugh has never asked this question before in a way that allows us to tell if the sentiment is becoming more common. But election results showed that urban and rural Americans are increasingly at odds with each other. The new survey confirms both believe the other group doesn't understand their problems or share their values and political scientists warned that place based resentments no-one respects. Rural America or Trump is at war with cities can be easily exploited by politicians. Cathy, Kramer, the university of Wisconsin political scientists who helped Pugh compile. This report believes this divide has gotten worse since the two thousand sixteen election, and that it represents something new in dangerous in American politics. Quote, we're at a political moment where cultural divides overlap with political divides which overlap with geography. Now, I find that pew study interesting for a lot of reasons, but the most concerning thing to me is that it shows this divide between rural and urban America has not always been as bad as it is today. Here's the times again, quote, registered voters in urban areas have become more likely to identify as Democrats or leaning democratic the opposite trend has been more. Pronounced among rural residents with a notable shift after two thousand eight before then rural voters were relatively evenly divided between the two parties, you may not find this divide as frightening as I do. But I think it precedes something potentially quite terrible in addition to trending further. Right. Every year the rural United States kind to seems to be falling. The fuck apart. Cattle rustling is on the rise again across the southwest in states, like Oklahoma, Texas and California. It's reached levels not seen since literal. Cowboy days now modern wrestling is usually driven by sky high rates of drug abuse. In other words, people are stealing cows to buy painkillers and meth. Agricultural theft of all kinds is actually on the rise across the rural US entire semi trucks with nuts and oranges or regularly hijacked via complex schemes that often. Involve fake trucking companies rural America is also growing more violent for most of American history. Living out in the middle of nowhere was the safer decision since cities tended to have much higher crime rates but last year for the first time in a decade, violent crime rates in rural areas rose above the national average, America's suicide rate also increased by more than twenty percent from two thousand one to two thousand fifteen most of that increase happened out in the country, the increases in violent crime and suicide are both due at least in part to the fact that gun ownership is vastly higher out in the country. Forty six percent of rural Americans own a firearm compared to nineteen percent of city dwellers and twenty eight percent of suburban Americans three quarters of rural Americans own more than one firearm and forty eight percent of gun owning rural Americans used their fire. Harm to hunt. So these people have practical experience using a gun out in the world to hit live moving targets. Now, stick all this together. And what do you have it? Sure looks like you have all the ingredients you'd need if you wanted to cook up one ask kicker of an insurgency in if the second American civil war kicks off in rural areas, I can almost guarantee you it will start with a massive new push for national gun control. Kamala Harris, easily one of the primary front running democratic candidates in the current bevy of candidates in twenty twenty is outspoken about her desire to ban all semiautomatic firearms. This would ban the vast majority of America's civilian owned guns literally making tens of millions of people into criminals overnight. The only weapons left legal would be revolvers, shotguns, and bolt action hunting rifles, which are ironically, the very weapons outside of bolt action weapons most likely to be used in violent crime in the immediate wake of President Trump's decision to Claire a state of emergency over the border conservative. Trumpers like Rick Wilson took to Twitter to warn not that Trump might seize power that setting this precedent would inevitably lead to Democrats declaring a state of emergency of their own over gun violence. Once they were back in the Oval Office on January eighth during the CNN appearance. Parkland shooting survivor, David Hogg said this quote, if we really want to start talking about the national emergency like the president likes to talk about forty thousand Americans dying annually from gun violence is a pretty damn good one to start with. Last year. The Atlantic published an article by Elizabeth quitting evaluating the extent of the president's emergency powers in February two thousand nineteen Pacific. Standard magazine applied that to the possibility of national emergency over guns, quote, the legal infrastructure to Levy an emergency declaration, Gordon writes exists, thanks to the presidential emergency action. Documents developed by the Eisenhower administration designed to address such extralegal actions as declarations of martial law and the suppression of habeas corpus these documents could potentially extend to encompass outright firearms confiscations, given the scope of a national crisis now back during Hurricane Katrina, the New Orleans police department ordered evacuating citizens to hand over their firearms to the police superintendent Edwin p compass the third later declared a blanket confiscation of all firearms in the city, saying only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons at the time. A federal court issued a restraining order to stop the weapons confiscation. So they did not go through all the way but weapons were confiscated. And of course, that was a very different time with a Republican president and a few hundred fewer mass shootings in recent memory. President Harris's semiautomatic weapons ban would have to be followed by mass confiscation. Tens of millions of gun owners will not hand over their weapons willingly. There are literally more privately owned firearms than people in the United States and half of those guns are owned by just three percent of gun owners. I'm going to give you one guess as to which part of the country. Most of those gun owners live earlier this year, Washington state passed a new set of gun control regulations. The restrictions are fairly mild compared to Kamala Harris is proposition in the new law is popular with the states liberal majority. Fifty nine percent of Washingtonian supported it. But most of those people most of those supporters live in urban areas like Seattle in conservative rural and suburban Washington people are pissed sixteen sheriffs have so far declared that they will not enforce the new law. Here's the Wall Street Journal quote. Sheriff Tom Jones of grant county. Also in eastern Washington is one of a number of sheriffs who have said that they would wait for the courts to rule before telling the deputies to enforce the new law. I swore an oath to defend our citizens and their constitutionally protected rights said Mr. Jones whose county voted against the gun control measure by more than two to one. I do not believe the popular vote over rules that. Now, there are hundreds of thousands of heavily armed Americans right now who see armed resistance to the state is something aspirational as a dream most of these guys, and they are mostly guys don't have any real combat training. A lot of them are probably just lar- ping playacting. But the Bundy standoff was proof that even Laras with a shitload of AR fifteen can scare the federal government in the face of a major gun ban. How many rural communities, and how many states would say fuck you to a democratic president the yellow vest movement kicked off as a suburban and rural movement in France a revolt from the more conservative sections of that country society against a liberal president and his policies. I'm going to quote from the New York Times here, the movement originated in may when a woman in Priscilla lit up scape, who has an internet cosmetics, business and lives in the suburbs. Southeast of Paris launched an internet petition calling for a drop in gas prices. She broke down the price into its components, noting the taxes made up more than half the cost in France per liter lead-free gas was one point four one euros on Sunday or about six. Per gallon. The petition went mostly unnoticed until October. When Eric druid a truck driver from the same area as mislead OSI ran across it and circulated it. Among his Facebook friends. Newspapers began writing out the petition in the number of signatures skyrocketed from an initial seven hundred to two hundred thousand now the yellow vest movement in France is not a purely conservative thing within France itself. It's actually much more divided than that. But I think it provides a good look at how inactive is movement can launch amongst older and more conservative segments of a modern society. I also think rising gas prices could very well be another generator of rural rage here in America people who live in the country spend more on gas because they have to drive further distances. There is a good chance that any green new deal style plan to slow global warming introduced by a democratic administration would include a gas tax rural areas, grow our food in a very real way that keep the city's alive and the people who live in those places. No, it just to say air traffic controllers in stewardesses had the power to. The government shutdown by threatening air travel. Rural Americans have something they too can hold captive in their case. It's the food supply. This would of course require a great deal of organization list of demands and political figureheads to speak for the movement to lend it a shape and a sense of purpose. And I can guarantee you that Joey Gibson the founder of patriot prayer would at least try to be one of them. Joey is one of the leading figures in the right wing activist movement that's arisen since the two thousand sixteen election along with the proud, boys. Joey and patriot prayer have spent the last two years brawling against antifa with fists and flagpoles, but they have also held numerous armed marches and full body armor carrying rifles Gibson lives in Vancouver, Washington. Most members of his gang come from either suburban or rural areas around Portland, Oregon, if you watch hours and hours of their footage marches and video rants like I have you'll regularly. Hear these people describe their constant bloody rallies in Portland as something of a crusade Christian. Holy warriors. Descending into a decadent left-wing city to purge of sin in the last episode. I played several clips of Alex Jones calling for a new civil war against the left. Joey Gibson just happens to be a regular guest on Infowars last. Member he joined the show to talk about Washington's new gun control laws. It's out of control. And I've seen the videos on your site. You should plugs. No place. People can find these. We're gonna put some of these ten full wars dot com. You're getting crowds of hundreds and hundreds of people in small towns counties coming out, and they are really pissed about this. They're really upset. We had almost three hundred people and county with ten thousand people in it. And they're extremely concerned a really upset. They're sick and tired of Seattle telling them what they can or cannot do the people just they just want to be free. They want to be left alone. And so I think this is the key in states like Washington and Oregon the keys to go around to all the counties that believe in the constitution, which is about ninety percent of the counties in Washington state, our conservative now, I've met Joey he's not a brilliant man or a likely pick for a right wing revolutionary warlord. He would try, but for my money, a likelier pick for rural insurrectionist warlord would be someone like Ryan Bundy you've seen Ryan on the news a few times, especially if you kept up with the Bundy standoff back in two thousand fourteen he's one of the sons of cliven Bundy the old racist rancher who masterminded that standoff with the bureau of land management in bunkerville, Nevada. Ryan is the one with the facial deformity? This has led a lot of people online to treat him as if he is a big dummy dummy because big. Guitry knows no political bounds. But Ryan Bundy is not dumb. He was probably the driving force behind the two thousand sixteen occupation of the malheur wildlife refuge, Ryan spent months jail over that. But he defended himself against the court and won some of this was due to the serious mistakes made by the prosecution, but a lot of it came down to Ryan's, personal charisma. His ability to sway a jury of his peers to believe in the righteousness of his 'cause right now Ryan is running for governor of Nevada. He's probably a long shot candidate. But it doesn't really matter. Dozens upon dozens of heavily armed men and women were willing to gather and put their lives on the line for his family twice. There is a weird religious crusade angle to what the bundy's have been doing based on a fringe Mormon prophesy, the fantastic podcast Bundy Ville, which I heartily recommend goes into more detail on this. But the short of it is they believed that they've been chosen by God to defend the constitution, or at least, they're interpret. Station of the constitution. This is the kind of nut bar stuff that I think a lot of liberals are prone to laugh about I don't find anything funny about the bundy's to people have already been radicalized into killing by their rhetoric in June of two thousand fourteen Jared and Amanda Miller fresh from taking part in the standoff at Bundy ranch drove into Las Vegas and walked into a cici's pizza with a small arsenal. They opened fire on two officers sitting in eating lunch killing both as they started shooting the couple allegedly yelled. This is the start of a revolution. One dead. Officer was covered in Gadsden flag. Another was covered in the Nazi flag. Jared and Amanda killed one more person a random bystander before dying in a gunfight with police now, the millers had a lot of other radicalizing factors behind the rampage than just the Bundy standoff, but it wasn't important step in their journey. The voice finicky is probably a better example of a man who died explicitly for the bundy's. He was shot. Reaching for a gun after being stopped with Ryan and his brother Aiman during the her occupation in June of two thousand sixteen William Keebler, a Utah militia leader in close adherent of the bundy's was arrested and charged for trying to detonate homemade bombs at a Beal am building in Arizona. So that's three distinct cases and four individual people who have been radicalized into violent deadly action by the rhetoric and beliefs of the Bundy clan in a situation where order starts to break down even more in rural America and extremist groups begin to tear at the fabric of our society. You can bet the bundy's will not just sit back and watch. So far, the Bundy family have mostly agitated around land rights, and what they depict as the struggle of American ranchers against a tarantula government. But they and their supporters are also huge backers of the second amendment if they were to organize even violently in defense of the right to bear arms. I think you would see them receive a lot of support from even mainstream console. -servative? Tucker Carlson is one of the most popular conservatives in modern America. Here's a clip from a December fourth two thousand seventeen episode of his show during an interview with a gun control advocate. The fact is we need to have guns, and we need to talk about banning entire classes of especially dangerous firearms like assault weapons. And I think we have to talk about not just banning them. But requiring the people allow the government to buy them back. Universal gun confiscations which are talking about universal confiscation. You're sitting a class of firearms would be any rifle with a capacity of more than one above a certain caliber. I mean, I don't know what the criteria are that you're suggesting, but basically any gun they would use for deer hunting would be banned. I would make a distinction between long guns. That are technically say my automatic the kind like my dad uses hunt and semiautomatic assault weapons that you have to go donors one hundred major meaningless distinctions, but let's get to the meat of it. What do you do to people who own sell them back? I think you think you at a bare minimum sort of find them severely for it and build an incentive for them to any for the civil war that would and take people's guns. I'm serious now. I can't think of any Americans I personally despise more than Tucker Carlson. But I don't think he's wrong about that. And if large chunks of rule America declared their resistance to the federal government, the state would not have a lot of options for stopping them both rural and urban America have seen declines. And the number of police officers in recent years, but the rural parts of this country are the only place where that drop in cops has led to a surge in crime, so rural Americans who grow most of our food feel increasingly isolated from the majority of the United States. They are already dealing with a significant breakdown of civil order, and oh, yeah. They just happen to have most of America's three hundred something million privately owned firearms. Will either? Hi, this is Ron burgundy from the Ron burgundy podcast, and I'm recording this brand new promo because apparently the old promos are now suffering from listener fatigue. So I'm recording. This new one to ask you to listen to the Ron burgundy podcast. And I'm so sorry. You the listener that you've become fatigued by the previous promo. So here's a brand new one a right there. How do you like it? Yeah. Listen to the podcast. Thank you. I hope at this point I've established how very possible a rural revolt is now let's take a look at how it might actually happen. Head north from San Francisco on the I five and before long the verdant green of the bay will give away to rolling yellow hills creeping higher and higher until they become mountains by the time. You hit Redding California about three hours north from Silicon Valley, you'll be in a place that does not feel like California, or at least not the California that most of the world knows reading is not a progressive hippie town like so many small cities in northern California. It's filled with gun stores, gigantic trucks, bible, schools and churches as you near reading you start to see strange signs flags that bear a yellow circle with two Xs incited on a green background. This is the flag of the state of Jefferson. The double Xs stand for the fact that most rule Californians believe they have been double crossed by the big cities where most Californians reside the state of Jefferson movement wants to seed from California. So they can pay fewer taxes particularly on gasoline, which California taxes at a higher rate than any other state Jeffersonians or wanna be Jeffersonians. However, you prefer to identify. Them also advocate for looser gun laws. More in line with so-called free states like Texas. You see a lot of Trump flags in this part of California, or at least more than you see in other parts of the state most Californians if they've even heard of the state of Jefferson Buick is a big joke. The movement has existed for decades now without ever managing to move forward on their dreams of secession, but I can say with confidence that for many people in rural nor Cal the state of Jefferson is anything but a joke from two thousand and thirteen to two thousand sixteen I spent increasing chunks of time in rural inland, California, mostly in the tiny mountain communities in and around reading you probably haven't heard of any of the towns I lived in. They are not tourist destinations. They have names like red bluff Weaverville Dunn's MIR and shingle town the place I spent most of my time was Manton a small community tucked deep in the middle of nowhere. Most residents in men either grew weed or cooked meth some did both. There are two roads into Manton one long and lonesome road from red bluff and. Hairpin mountain road in from shingle town in all the months, I spent their over three years. I did not see a single police car Manton is not entirely free from the long arm of the law. But most of what transpires there is well outside of its grasp. That fact does not make Manton an oddity in rural California in two thousand eighteen McClatchy a media company based in Sacramento investigated, the number of law enforcement officers in rural California, here's how the Sacramento bee summarized things quote departments in multiple jurisdictions are operating with skeleton stabs McClatchy found pushing response times in two hours or sometimes leaving residents without a response at all in trinity county, deputies regularly cover hundreds of miles of territory alone. When law enforcement does arrive in many outlying places, it's often a single officer cut off from backup and in some cases communication with his or her department. We have no money, we have no people said mohawk county sheriff Mike Poindexter echoing more than a dozen rural California sheriff's we don't have near enough people. We just don't. Now, McClatchy interviewed officers and citizens and reviewed crime statistics for twenty five rural Californian counties. These places accounted for forty one percent of the state's landmass but just four percent of its population. Mcclatchy found that from two thousand eight to two thousand seventeen the number of rural deputies in these areas dropped from seventeen hundred fifty eight to sixteen hundred ten this means roughly sixteen hundred men and women are responsible for maintaining order in nearly half of America's third largest state right now, the state of Jefferson is only in favor of seceding from California. They want to be the United States is fifty first state. But if you listen to how these people talk, the amount of anger, they have for urban Californians, you might conclude that they could be convinced to take more extreme action. I found an L A times article about the state of Jefferson, the journalists who wrote it went to a meeting some of these people help and quoted the speech of a prominent state of Jefferson advocate. Mark baird. A rancher in siskiyou county. Mark told his fellow rural Californians, you're the one. Being exterminated by a lack of liberty. Now that language the word exterminated. That's how you prime people for violence, and there is enough truth behind his words to make them stick rural Californians are just as poor as rural Texans, but they're also burdened by California's much higher taxes. A gas tax makes Cincinnati may. In fact, it's necessary to keep the air breathable. But if you live in Shasta county, and you need a big truck to do the kind of work people do out in the sticks. And you've got to drive eighty miles a day paying California gas prices, well, twelve extra cents per gallon is a real hardship. And by the way, these people love Donald Trump, the president currently enjoys a sixty one percent approval rating in rural America, if Trump is voted out or impeached. It would not take much to get millions of people to believe this was part of some deep state conspiracy to steal liberty and also guns that exact fear is literally what caused the birth of the American militia movement back in the late nineteen eighties. Now, if the time they call it the new world order, but the basic idea is. That a socialist government was coming to take their guns. That's why all these militias started people like Timothy McVeigh have killed over this stuff before. So if rural America decides to revolt what would that look like how could four percent of a state effectively fight back against the ninety six percent who live in cities. It is impossible to overstate the importance of the Golden State to the rest of America, not because of Silicon Valley or Hollywood, but because California feeds this country. It leads the state in cash receipts for crops forty seven billion dollars a year in much more at this point the nearest state behind an Iowa is only twenty seven billion in receipts, Texas, only generates twenty three and a half billion California's cash receipts for agriculture were more than Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico combined. The state leads the nation in sixty six crucial crops in grows. More than ninety percent of the nation's almonds are. Chokes dates figs, raisins, Kiwis, all lives, peaches, pistachios, prunes, pomegranates, sweet rice and walnuts. The bulk of California's food including nearly all its beef comes from the densely farmed central valley. But seventy five percent of California's water comes from the watersheds north of Sacramento, which means the so-called state of Jefferson. We're at to organize itself. Revolt could cut off access to the water that makes California's agriculture possible. Eighty percent of California's water demand is in the southern two-thirds of the state. Right now, it's still seems like a long shot, but in the wake of a massive sweep in gun ban. And remember most economists say were right around the corner from another massive economic crash. I brought up the occupy movement last episode two and how a similar movement might cause a right wing crack down that sparks a civil war. I can see that same sort of activist movement providing an opportunity for a far right rule insurgent movement after all occupy rose up itself after the election of a democratic president in an economic collapse. Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and Baidoa Rourke three of the most prominent potential democratic candidates and twenty twenty are all very unpopular among the far left. So imagine this assault weapons ban is enacted while the economy is in the shitter in cities across the US are convulsed with protests in occupations, even if these ocupation protests avoid the rioting theorized about last episode. It would still take a massive toll on law enforcement. And that would look a lot like opportunity to rural separatists who are sick and tired of city folk telling them, what to do all the water that grows. California's crops is pumped south. It doesn't just slide down. There naturally. Pumps can be blown up the crops grown in the central valley are all transported by trucks travelling on highways. Few. I could cripple transit for days in just so happens that rule America is a Washington ingredient. You would need to make a really great e AD ten right is a bipartite explosive compound. It is safe to handle not explosive until mixed and even then only explosive when used with a detonator or shot with a rifle botanic can be converted into something. Much more dangerous with ease. David ca colon. The counterinsurgency expert in former State Department strategist told me this. I am astounded. You can buy Tanna right online. Ten right is basically Aminul World War Two bombs were filled with the stuff that is essentially the same thing set up by impact or a small TNT charge. I see no legitimate purpose to ten right? If you took the ammonium nitrate compound, you would then have a substance called anthro, the classic IRA explosive. Now, Colin told me that anyone in a farming community has access to the chemicals you would need to turn tannery into an fo. And that quote, it's very safe to use and transport as an insurgent. So for full disclosure. I myself have used handwrite dozens of times over the years, and I love it. Normally, you only set up like a half pound charge, and you should it with a rifle from a distance and blows up, and it's fun. I can remember one time my friends, and I said a four pound charge one time and only one time because it left a fucking crater in rained dirt down on our heads from two hundred feet away. A lot of Americans own tannery, not just in California. When I lived in Texas, I had twenty pounds at a time delivered to my door. Tanta right gets its name from its inventor a guy named David Tanner, Mr. Tanner, lives in Oregon, and that's where most right is made residents of the so-called state of Jefferson when only after drive a couple of hours to buy it straight from the source, so say a rural insurgency starts and say this insurgency strikes. Southern California's water supply, maybe going after the pumps in the tax choppy mountains that carry it south or maybe they focus on bombing highways. Shutting down transit on the roads of America's most populous state a few hundred committed insurgents with a good plan in decent organization. Could do a tremendous amount of damage this way law enforcement already wildly undermanned in rural California would need to bring in help from the cities. And if those cities are convulsed with big ass, occupy style protests. Well, at some point the government would have to troops to secure the nations food supply. This would be terrifying. Precedent for a number of reasons for one thing. Most US soldiers come from rural areas in California is one of the major recruiting grounds for the United States military. The DOD. Would have to take great care to ensure soldiers weren't being sent to pacify unrest being generated by their own friends and family members that might lead to the same sort of situation. We see in Afghanistan with constant insider attacks and desertions were soldiers take their experience and their weapons and Milton to the deep woods with their comrades. Their new comrades. This rural insurgency would not stay confined to California, very long terrorist tactics. Have a nasty tendency to spread violently a series of truck bombings in rural northern California could lead rather quickly to similar attacks all around the nation, not just bombings, but hijackings in many cases, these thefts might rely on truck drivers themselves allowing loads to be hosted in exchange for a cut up the money. Black market sales of food would provide more funding for the insurgency, even as food prices started to rise in the cities, perhaps the state and the federal government could get shit together. Quickly enough to restore the flow of water to southern California in a timely manner. Even so a month or two even a few weeks without sufficient water would be crippling to those farmers in their crops. Even a short lived in very localized. Urgency would cause a massive spike and food prices now food prices are traditionally the single biggest predictor of civil conflict, Twitter and Facebook get a lot of credit for the spring of two thousand eleven but that series of revolutions uprisings in civil wars was sparked in large part by the price of grain. I'd like to read a couple of quotes from a wonderful guardian article titled use your loaf by food prices were crucial to the spring. When grain prices spiked in two thousand seven to two thousand eight Egypt's bread prices rose thirty seven percent with unemployment rising as well. More people dependent on subsidised bread. But the government did not make any more available Egypt's annual food price inflation continued and it had eighteen point nine percent before the fall of President Mubarak the first protests of the herbs spring in Tunisia in December two thousand ten where quickly dismissed as another bout of bread riots. But of course, those protests led to the overthrow of the Tunisian dictator. This is not just a Middle Eastern thing. Food prices of the number one predictor of unrest worldwide if rural America decided to go to war, they have a number of very convenient choke points. They could use. To attack their urban enemies. Many of these insurgents would consider it revenge for decades of mockery neglected environmental policies that burden them far more than his fair. These resentments exist right now all take a few hundred people in a geographically discrete part of the country like northern California to turn this anger into action. So it should this point be easy to imagine rising food prices in the midst of a recession escalating, the number in violence of these protests that were already seen in cities across the nation. Desperation causes the government to approve more and more violent tactics to deal with the insurgents, which inspires more rural anger and probably causes more attacks. We watched this happened before in numerous countries, the bombing of trucks and highways to cut off food is a tactic that could work in almost every part of the United States. Only four percent of the food consumed by Americans is locally produced more than seventy percent of the food that gets to our cities does. So the trucks we are incredibly vulnerable to attacks on our highways in this country is filled with people who have the means and motivation to apply the sort of violence in. In November two thousand eighteen over the space of about a week two major busts by US law enforcement officers led to the arrests more than eighty Neo Nazis and white supremacists. There are members of gangs with names, like the unforgiven and the area and brotherhood. Thirty nine of the arrested were members of Neo Nazi gang from rural Florida. These Nazis were found with meth fennel more than one hundred firearms several pipebombs and one rocket launcher in a more violent and less settled America. Those men and women could have formed the nexus of a deadly regional insurgency and trust me. There are thousands of people like them all around the country who have not yet been busted hell that same week police in Green Bay Wisconsin responding to a domestic disturbance, call found a man with swastika tattoos and an underground bomb laboratory when I start talking about the state of Jefferson turning into a violent insurgency when I talk about rednecks bombing water pump stations and hijacking trucks. It probably sounds far fetched. But the kind of people who want that future who are just itching for the chance to go Taliban on all. Our asses those people exist right now, they aren't the majority of rural America, or if conservatives, but they don't need to be a few thousand violent extremists spread out across a few dozen states could do damage wildly out of proportion to their numbers. Either. If you're going to build something from nothing, you've got to know what really works. I took a thousand dollar loan built a five billion dollar business. And now, I make smart investments new businesses on shark tank. I'm Barbara Corcoran. Now. I'm sharing my secrets on my podcast called business unusual. You might think that looking at someone's resume and asking them a lot of questions are the key to finding the right person for a position you dead wrong. Follow business unusual on iheartradio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. I find myself drawn back regularly to the notes I took in my interview with David Kilcullen, one of the world's great counterinsurgency experts. We were talking about the best way to cripple this country. And he said this quote, you don't try to generate a mass movement. You don't try to get the state to crack down on you. Instead, you try to generate a sectarian civil war. So intense that it makes the society ungovernable, and that's the goal for any true Revolutionary Movement writer left make America ungovernable, if you've been paying attention to your Nazi news. You may have heard about the terrorist group atom Waffen with five deaths and counting to their name. They have the highest body count of any Neo Nazi organization of the post two thousand sixteen era while the group has been hobbled recently by some inside drama over satanism. They have active members in several US states as well as Germany these cells are usually three to four members with no communication between individual groups. Here said, the German magazine Der Spiegel described them. Members are heavily armed and prepared to make use of their weapons. Indeed, they are getting ready for what they see as the coming race war in so-called. Hate camps weapons training is conducted by members of the US military. Who are also among the group's members. According to one former member of the atom Waffen division newcomers must submit to waterboarding. In addition to other such trials now propublica working with the fantastic conflict journalist, Jay Hanrahan interviewed a former member of atom often, I'm going to play clip from that here. A lot of things that they talk about other members. Of course, could keep keep everyone from falling down as talked about siege. Hit and run. Evacuation there. Stop. Let everyone panic. We've been no point to March around the streets like a week fucking pussy with white polos and khakis and Tiki torches. Screaming white lives matter. Don't care about politicians. Don't care about politics. Wanting. Everyone to stop being slaves to the system that we're living in living under when he mentioned siege. That's a reference to a white supremacist newsletter in book authored by a guy named James Mason. Mr. Mason is a founding father of American Nazism, and the guy who coined the term leaderless resistance. He and his comrades have been urging exactly the kind of war I've outlined here for more than forty years. I write this few months after the birth of yet. Another new white supremacist terror group in the United States, these people called themselves the base their name is literally the English translation of al-qaeda who they consider to be an inspiration there, mostly based in the Pacific northwest. They to focus on weapons training and small group preparation in order to carry out insurgent attacks against the US government that former atom often guy interviewed by Republican mentioned wanting to destroy the system he was expressing a desire to do. Exactly what David Colin was talking about render the country ungovernable these people the Neo, Nazis and militiamen and white supremacists. They all know. Exactly what they plan to do if civil conflict erupts across the country. What will you do statistically? You'll probably be in a city watching food prices rise and seeing protest after protest convulsed you're downtown. There will be runs on grocery stores. Maybe even mass looting food if things get bad enough outside of the city roads will be closed checkpoints with soldiers and heavily-armed cops will start to appear on the interstate. The great American highway system will become militarized as the state scrambles to pin down the insurgency. If you do live out in the country or in a particularly conservative suburb. You will have the additional complexity of needing to live with insurgents the first few months of this will be particularly difficult. It takes time to deploy the national guard of the army millions of rural Americans might spend weeks or months without any realistic access to law enforcement or emergency services. Imagine a knock at the door one night an armed insurgent asking for food or shelter. What do you do in might be weeks before the police come back or the army arrives? And even when they do they won't be at every house every day. They may not even be able to hold onto the area. So maybe you find yourself aiding and abetting these revolutionaries. Even if you consider them terrorists for a lot of people that will feel like the safest decision so far on this podcast. I focused on just how the civil war might break out in past a certain point. It doesn't really matter whether the fighting starts from a left wing or right wing movement. Just as a rule secessionist movement would take on rest in the cities as an opportunity radical leftist would find an ungovernable America to have just as much potential for their ideals. Most of you listening probably wouldn't pick a side right away. It wouldn't even look like there were sides for a while there'd be protests in cities. Of course activists with. Lists of demands maybe demands, you agree with maybe not and there'd be insurgents terrorists out in the country with their own demands. Strangling your city in the rest of urban America as the government failed to restore order and normalcy. A lot of people would find themselves seriously questioning the government's legitimacy probably for the first time. We've never really had cost to do that on a mass level in modern America. Whatever else has happened. The state has. Always managed to keep the highways. Open the food flowing when that's no longer the case a lot more people will find themselves picking sides for some of us that will mean backing a protest movement demanding radical change for others. It will mean supporting the government, maybe because we just want the rest to be over and for a growing number of Americans. It will mean deciding they don't want to be Americans anymore. The government would not call it a civil war not right away. But we'd no. Now, so far we've just talked about how the fighting would start for my money. I think the most likely beginning would involve a mix of the things we've talked about in both of these first two episodes city centres occupied by activists with demands fighting the police and national guard. Well, rule insurgents carry out their own attacks and make their own demands. Every attack from every side accelerates the whole process and pushes the whole country. Closer to chaos now. The state would not take all of this sitting down. Of course, there would be increasingly vigorous attempts to right the ship and to stop the cycle of violence, federal and state governments with throw absolutely everything. They had it curbing the unrest restoring order on the next episode of it could happen here. I'll walk you through just what that would look like. And why systems efforts would be almost certainly doomed to fail. Jinya watched it from phones change. Facebook pictures congratulate ourselves may nervous jokes and west about sex was sending out. And it says always listening one of this on. Joe strums been death to him now. Now. On the one. You give an inch nails stake. Your. We don't we don't even was. We don't. Even. I'm Robert Evans, and I'm just exhausted from reading all of that you can find me on Twitter at I right? Okay. You can find this show on Twitter at happen here pod. And you can find the show online at it could happen here. Pod dot com. Our music as always is from four fists if you're going to build something from nothing you've got to know what really works. I took a thousand dollars loan built a five billion dollar business. And now, I make smart investments new businesses on shark tank. I'm Barbara Corcoran. Now. I'm sharing my secrets on my podcast called business unusual. You might think that looking at someone's resume and asking them a lot of questions are the key to finding the right person for a position, you're dead wrong. Follow business unusual on iheartradio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

America California US Oregon Washington Ryan Bundy President Trump Texas Jefferson president federal government Twitter Facebook Bundy New York Times assault Washington
Sources: Dems privately preparing for Senate trial; CNN: Trump's Florida holiday raises concern among WH aides; Facing tough re-election, Sen. Jones talks impeachment vote; Biden: I've tried to focus on Trump, not attacking other Democratic candidates;

The Lead with Jake Tapper

45:46 min | 1 year ago

Sources: Dems privately preparing for Senate trial; CNN: Trump's Florida holiday raises concern among WH aides; Facing tough re-election, Sen. Jones talks impeachment vote; Biden: I've tried to focus on Trump, not attacking other Democratic candidates;

"The Iowa caucuses are mere weeks away at this stage of the race in two thousand and four John Kerry was pulling at four percent four years ago. Jeb Bush was the Republican confront runner. If you're invested in the outcome of the twenty twenty election the only podcast you need. Is the election ride home. You don't have to nervously refresh your browser twelve times a day anymore. The election ride home. has you covered with the latest every day from the campaign trail. Search your podcast APP and subscribe to the election ride home podcast. Don't don't worry it's not too late to send the perfect holiday gift this year. Omaha steaks. Right now podcast. Listeners can still send delicious impressive when one hundred percent guaranteed gifts that everyone will share. Remember and love flavorful tender Omaha steaks so the gift that American families have loved for over one hundred years. Here's your happy friends and family will be excited when it arrives and think of you. Every time they prepare and enjoy their amazing meals with this special podcast. He'll act but now and they'll get four free Omaha. steaks burgers added to their gift that sixteen main courses plus sides dessert for just sixty nine ninety nine go to Omaha steaks dot com and type the lead in the search bar today impeachment has reached an impasse. The lead starts right right now. President trump wants a trial right away but speaker Pelosi wants to make sure it's fair. Who will blink in the standoff over the Senate impeachment trial piling? Highly on Mayor Pete. Democrats clash over a wine cave in the last debate of the year. What has the candidates seeing red as they approached the Iowa caucuses plus a sitting republican state rep accused of domestic terrorism by taking part in armed conflicts? There was a time when that kind of thing would enter political career but these these are not normal. Welcome to the lead. I'm Briana Keeler Jake Tapper and we begin with the politics lead you. You'd think it would be a great gift for President Trump Speaker Pelosi holding onto the articles of impeachment instead of sending them over to the Senate to begin the formal impeachment trial but the president is looking for total exoneration as CNN Sara Murray reports Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell now at stalemate as Congress goes on a holiday holiday break president. Trump's impeachment trial maybe officially stole but behind the scenes house. Democrats are getting ready staff for the the key. House committees are expected to work over the holiday recess consulting with Democratic leadership prepping for a trial as early as the week of January six. But that depends on house speaker speaker. Nancy Pelosi who says she won't send the articles of impeachment to the Senate until parameters for a Senate trial are set when they wrote the constitution. They suspected that it could be a real president. I don't think they suspected that we could have a road. President and a rogue leader in the Senate at the same time in the Senate majority leader. Mitch McConnell this afternoon arranged for White House staff to get a lay of the land in the chamber after failing to cut a deal Thursday with minority leader Chuck Schumer on the rules for a trial. We we remain at an impasse. McConnell argued rules from previous impeachments should suffice to believe that the unanimous bipartisan precedent. That was good enough for Oh President Clinton ought to be good enough for president. Trump fair is fair plus Schumer push for an agreement to include testimony from witnesses such as former national security adviser John Bolton and Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney leader McConnell is plotting the most rush lease thorough and most just unfair impeachment trial in modern history the standoff means lawmakers are leaving Washington with the status of an impeachment trial in limbo until the new year. Aw But if Pelosi's power play was meant to unnerve McConnell he insists it's backfiring other house. Democrats seem to be suggesting. They'd prefer never transmit the articles now despite the acrimony between the two parties today Nancy Pelosi extended an invitation to President trump to deliver the state eight of the Union before a joint session of Congress on February fourth. The President Briana has accepted. All right. Sara Murray thank you so much. Let's talk about what Pelosi actually wrote in that invitation and shall we quote in their great wisdom. Our founders crafted a constitution based on a system of separation of powers three coequal branches acting as checks on each other to ensure that balance powers the constitution calls for the president to from time to time. Give the Congress information of the State of the Union I I it just seems it might be too cynical. It seems a little bit like shade to me. Would you say milk tweeting. Some language can't but look the timing of. This could really incredible given that. We don't know the timing of the Senate impeachment trial it could coincide at the same time. That trump delivers his state of the Union address which actually happened in Bill Clinton's impeachment but he didn't talk about Impeachment Bill Clinton. He talked about the economy he talked about y two K and you can imagine this president might take a different approach. If if he's being the same time y two k what blasting takes you back you may sort of realized how long ago that was. What would you expect from that chairman the idea that president trump? I don't think he'd be able to have that kind of discipline to you. I do not. I think that he would not be able to contain himself being in the chamber. Ambridge that impeached Impeach trump. I mean he would be smart if he would talk about some of the successes and there are some things in the economy. Really strong seventy six percent saying that that they they're happy where the economy is going is huge for any political figure going into an election And I I don't know the press if if the president goes is in doesn't try to highlight those things talks about. Impeachment continues to kind of shoot himself in the foot. It's about what's going on with impeachment right now. sung-min Pelosi said. She's not going to hand over these articles of impeachment until she sees that the process on the Senate side is fair so she either House to extract something from Mitch McConnell title. WHO's very savvy as we know speaker Pelosi's savvy? He's very savvy right as I'm not saying one over the other just saying maybe there's a match there right or she. She is to cave in a bit of a boxer. Well it's a puzzling move to say the least. Because if you're you're trying to put leverage over McConnell by withholding something that he does not want to totally fine not having so. I think what Democrats were trying to do here. And you kinda hints of it yesterday. When senator Lindsey Graham went to the White House and spoke with the press spoke with President? Trump privately I think what Democrats had sort of strategize at the outset. was that perhaps hold onto these delay. Delay The trial and delay the acquittal or in the president's view the exoneration that he's so wants from a Senate trial and while the president was out there very kind of almost mocking Nancy Pelosi Democrats for their strategy yesterday. I felt Graham's comments really interesting when he said I just left a meeting with president trump. He is quote mad as hell all they would delay this trial so maybe the strategy will work in that sense. Trump gets angry at McConnell tries to get him to move but for now it. I'm I'm not sure how this strategy will play out at the end. I'm not sure it's Pelosi's benefit just yet but to some degree. It's doing what it's intended to do. It's making him crazy. It's making him tweet tweet even more whereas if that were possible and also I mean look. It is a very serious matter that you have Mitch. McConnell and Lindsey Graham saying they're actually already going to not honor the Oath they're supposed to sign when we start the impeachment process in the Senate. I mean they are supposed to sign an oath to see that they're impartial. They're going to consider all the evidence they both already said. We're not doing that so she is well within her right to say until we can have some assurance so we're going to have something of a fair process. I'm going to hold back and give us some some more allegra leverage and it's such a contrast to how it was in Clinton's impeachment where Trent Lott and Tom Daschle. We're trying to be statesman. They had really tried to make it a more thoughtful process losses in the Senate that it had been in the house. Do you worry though that maybe it makes her and house. Democrats and Democrats in general. Look a little considering. She's been talking. What about being prayerful? And she's been talking about how this is solemn and perhaps this could undercut that a bit because again when you have Mitch McConnell saying I mean he he is supposed to be the leader of this process and he basically already said when I signed that I'm a liar because I'm not even GonNa be impartial. I'm not going to be unbiased. I know what I'm GONNA do. Lindsey Graham has already said I know what I'm going to do and I think that makes them look very petty. The one question I have to though Democrats perhaps may need to explain is that they talked about the issue of time. I mean that was the main reason why they did. Not Litigate the issue of the issues of the subpoenas that were being defined by the administration and the courts they said. The President President appears to be a significant danger ahead of the two thousand twenty elections. That's why we have to move expeditiously on this impeachment process but if you're holding out and Delaying during the trial and delaying kind of that second major part of the impeachment process That's a question that I think. A lot of us have had for the Democratic leadership. It was really interesting and I'm curious what you think chairman about out this Harvard. Law Professor Noah Feldman who wrote quote if the articles are not transmitted trump could legitimately say that. He wasn't truly impeached at all. That's because impeachment human under the Constitution means that sending approved articles to the Senate with House manager standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached. And he's an important voice voice because Democrats in the House had him on their hand picked panel of constitutional experts. Who really thought? Trump should be impeached. I'm not buying it. You're not buying you think this is some crazy kind of. That's a stretch for an argument. The president was impeached with the vote in the house. Like it or not the love. The president don't like the president. He was impeached in the house. What I see here is and I think it was going to work against the Democrats because that most of the public? That's out there wondering I don't think that is a cesspool of partisan politics back in Washington DC. If the impeachment looks even more political goal than they think it already has I think cuts against the Democrats and so if Democrats in tight seats. They're going to have to try to explain why they made their vote and all the way by by the way. We're playing this political game on trying to frame the frame the narrative that I want when it goes to the Senate I think this is fraught with political trouble. I think Schumer talked Pelosi into it over. You know over a conversation and now they're trying to dig their way out. I don't think this was well. Thought through half the number up next where president trump is heading that has some of his aides worried plus they've got millions of readers and a message for trump's base. WHY President Trump is attacking attacking a major evangelical Christian magazine fifty unread emails a stressful commute? Let's face it. We we all get overwhelmed. Sometimes do you ever have a great idea or big goal and let it fall by the wayside. You're not alone. Luckily talks online therapy makes it easy to vent manage stress and work towards goals. You've put off. Just take a quick assessment and talk spes will match you with one of over five thousand licensed therapists then you can start messaging your therapist the the very same day a month and talks about as much as one in person therapy session but talks base gives you unlimited access to your therapist. It's the same expertise. He's effectiveness and privacy. You'd expect from in person therapy at any time through talk spaces secure platform bottom line. We could all use therapy. Talks base wants to give more four of us a chance to achieve our goals and feel our best at a price. We can afford match with your perfect therapist at talks base dot com or download the mobile APP. And you'll get one hundred dollars off your first month when you use Promo Code. CNN that's talks based DOT COM Promo code CNN fifty unread emails a stressful commute. Let's face it. We we all get overwhelmed. Sometimes do you ever have a great idea or big goal and let it fall by the wayside. You're not alone. Luckily talks based on line. Therapy makes it easy to vent manage stress and work towards goals. You've put off. Just take a quick assessment and talk spes will match you with one of over five thousand licensed therapists. Then you can start messing your therapist the the very same day a month on talks about as much as one in person therapy session but talks base gives you unlimited access to your therapist. It's the same expertise. He's affective nece and privacy. You'd expect from in person therapy at any time through talks bases secure platform bottom line. We could all use therapy. Talks base wants to give more four of us a chance to achieve our goals and feel our best at a price. We can afford match with your perfect therapist at talks base dot com or download the mobile APP. And you'll get one hundred dollars off your first month when you use Promo Code. CNN that's talks base dot COM PROMO CODE CNN. We're back with the politics lead in a matter of of our president trump will leave Washington for his mar-a-lago resort where Mr Trump often hobnobs with friends and outside allies have tremendous influence over his decision making as C. N. N.'s Kaitlan Collins reports. It's a major point of concern for White House. Aides fresh off impeachment and eager for vindication. President trump is heading to his private Florida club tonight for a two week vacation but his aides are worried. He'll have too much time on his hands as his impeachment. Trial is looming sources. Say the next two weeks will be critical and there are big decisions about his defense strategy to be made leading to concern learn about outside influence on trump as he dines engulfs with old buddies at mar-a-lago that as a new report in the Washington Post sheds light on the outside outside influence. A foreign leader has had on trump former White House officials say they fear. Russian President Vladimir Putin lead trump to believe it was was Ukraine not Russia that interfered in the twenty sixteen election. One ex aide said trump explained the baseless theory by saying quote Putin told. Let me reminding many of this moment when he sided with the Russian leader over his own intelligence agencies President Putin He just said it's not Russia I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be for now. The president is focused on his impeachment trial and demanding to know when and it will be a just left president trump. He's mad as hell that they would do this to him. And now deny him his day in court after trump said it's likely likely his White House counsel will lead his defense team. That's been fantastic. As White House counsel his. Close ally. Senator Lindsey Graham advocated for this Defense Defense Strategy Thursday night. I told him my view was you should treat this like a supreme court argument power. The president pick somebody outside the political arena. It now Brianna. The president is expected to be well staffed during his trip at least during the second half of it. When the White House Counsel Pats at Bologna Jared Kushner the Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and the press secretary among other top aides are all expected to be on property with the president as he's got these pretty crucial decisions nations to make before game time Indeed and we'll be watching Kaelin. Thank you so much Kaitlan Collins there on the North Lawn. Let's talk about the president heading out tomorrow. Law Go for a couple of weeks. AIDS are worried. Should they be yet. What is he going to tweet? Who is he going to be talking to? Who's going to be his ear? Is he going to make any brash. Decisions about this upcoming Senator Al.. There's still a lot of decisions. He hasn't made so especially about his defense team. Is it going to be pats at Bologna. Whose leading it is Mick Mulvaney going to have a hand? He's also trying to bring in some of his allies in the house to come in and shore up his defense so clearly he's thinking about this. He wants the most aggressive defense possible especially because he's probably not going to get the witnesses he want want so there's a lot riding on who. He picks his defense team in Karen. If you put the shoe on the other foot if this were a democratic president doesn't have something to be frustrated about. As is he goes on vacation hanging over him one impeachment. He's in the middle of that and also there's this sort of stall that's happening with the articles of impeachment. Well I can't put the shoe on the other foot because I did work for Bill Clinton in this period and this is part of why the strategy of having an outside strategy where you are talking about the economy and you talking about your accomplishments actually worse because while you might be frustrated you know that you are still making headway on other issues and at this point all trump is really talking. If I talk about the deal got done in. The last couple of weeks always talking about is his frustration and anger over impeachment. So he's the one who's defining that narrative for the next couple of weeks. We know certainly where his mind is. something else that he may or may not be choosing to deal with. Is that late today. We learned that twenty-five Jewish members of Congress are calling for trump adviser. Stephen Miller Miller to be fired. This is for what they described his support for white nationalist and anti immigrant rhetoric after e Mail showed that he was promoting those views and organizations allied allied with those views. The trump administration claims that it is in fact Miller being subjected himself to Anti Semitism. I wonder what what you you think of this. especially as you've seen some of what are in these Miller emails. I think everybody has the right to defend themselves before we get in this era of social media in all of that you really want to be accurate. That in fact is the case but if it is there's just no place in the serious levels of government for Anti Semitic activities at a- at any level in the government and that worries me a lot when you saw what's in these emails I mean so that's just it's to you. It's very clear. Well I mean when you read the the email yes but I and I have to always suspect in this era with the ability to manipulate. You need to make sure it can't be just a social report on what's an email email anymore because people overreact it because I think this is really serious. If if he's actually saying those things and believes those things and serving in the capacity is in the White House to me. That's a problem you can't have it and so let's make sure that that's accurate. And if so then I if I were the president I would make some changes. You just can't tolerate but it certainly follows a pattern. I mean we know that Stephen Moore has been involved in some of the most outrageous cruel policies of the trump administration ration- when it comes to immigration. We know that during the twenty six campaign from our own reporting with Sarah side that he had supposedly was running the he was the political editor of Breitbart. And there was plenty plenty of very inappropriate comments racist bigoted sexist comment so sure. Let him have his day in court. But I think it's fairly clear he's not someone who should be in any way this ship performing the White House. Let's talk about a key. Line that was in the Washington Post report on this push of this Ukraine conspiracy theory about the origins agents of interference in the election in two thousand sixteen one former senior White House officials said trump even stated so explicitly at one point saying he knew Ukraine was the real culprit Britt because Putin told me because Putin told me someone is remarkable reporting from my colleagues there at the post this is. I mean we've seen publicly this fixation station on the debunked theory. That Ukraine had interfered in the two thousand sixteen election for some time from the president. And what's really noticeable now and is that a lot of his Republican allies in Congress are deflecting attention towards bad debunked theory. You've seen an increasing number of Senate Republicans talk about this House. Republicans Publican's you've had a chairman in the Senate launch investigations that demand documents into Ukraine's again. The debunk that debunked theory. And I think as you as the Senate trial heats up I think you're going to have some Republicans try to deflect that Even when national security officials that just Fiona Hill have said this is absolutely not true or are Senate Democrats in Lockstep on impeachment. We're going to ask one Democratic senator. WHO's facing a tough reelection fight in a ruby red state? There's still time to send Omaha steaks to everyone on your list but don't wait too long. Seventy three percent of Americans in say they'd rather get the gift of great food than more stuff. That's why Omaha steaks really is the perfect holiday gift when you send Omaha steaks. They'll get delicious tender hander filet Mignon steaks and so much more and you'll get the satisfaction of knowing you sent an amazing gift. They're going to share. 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Plus Four Free Omaha steaks Burgers for just sixty nine ninety nine when you go to Omaha. STEAKS DOT COM and type the lead in the search bar. Every gift is one hundred one hundred percent money back. Guaranteed remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN with a looming Senate impeachment trial. All eyes are on Democrats invulnerable states to see if they will risk reelection and vote to remove the president from office or Cross party lines and vote against it joining me now is Democratic senator. Doug Jones of Alabama sir. Thanks for joining US pleasure. Thanks for having me. You've been non-committal middle at this point on impeachment. I know you're still making up your mind waiting to see what happens. So how are you feeling about the vote. What have you been hearing from your constituents? Well I think we're a long way from having a vote we we haven't even got the rules of procedure yet. That's what the big news has been the last few days. What is the what is the Senate GonNa do? I mean senator. McConnell is holding back He accused Democrats in the House of having an unfair process. He seems to be wanting to take a playbook and have an unfair process assists and not a full fare and complete trial with with witnesses. So you know from what I'm doing I am. I'm reading the record from the House. I don't know if we'll have additional record or not spending a lotta time doing that. And I've got folks call in the office emailing the office and it's a little bit both ways supporting the president others that want to have the president removed from office. I think it's going to heat up more once we get back in January and we finally hopefully by then we'll have some rules and the articles of impeachment will be over and we'll know what we're doing. There are House. Democrats in vulnerable districts who voted to impeach in the house. And they say they're okay with risking losing their seat. If you're a Democratic senator in Alabama if your conscience leads you to vote to remove president trump from office. Is that something. You're willing to do knowing that you're going going to risk losing your seat. Well I think my oath of office and my duty to the constitution and the rule of law comes first I and so my conscience is going to be my God. I've got a fair amount of experience. Prosecuting and defending cases. I'm looking at this record. I'm going back and forth but at the end of the day. We'll take a second note to do fair and impartial justice according to the constitution and the laws United States And that's another reason while I'm looking at this because if I violate that oath of a lady the oath of office took a US senator. I I am perplexed as to how somebody can. Now take an oath of office and say they're impartial when there have been impartial. They're not going to be in. They proclaimed and they're not going to be impartial. So my duty and my conscience is gonNA rest with it. Oh Oath of office and that's where I'll stand. Do you really think that senators can save their impartial that they really are impartial. Well I do believe that I mean I think you're looking at an example of that what I am trying to do. What I think is in the best interest of the country This is about the future of the presidency. It's about the future of the Congress about the future of the country. That's a pretty weighty the that's pretty weighty on anybody shoulders and I think once we get in then in the solemn the of the occasion is going to really weigh on some people. This is N- should not be a partisan partisan issue When I when this first broke before we left in October I gave a long speech on the Senate floor about people getting out of their partisan corners? It is not easy to do in the political article. Divide that we're seeing in this country today but the fact of the matter is that's what we we're in the Senate to do. That's what we're supposed to do what the oath requires and I think we what we really need to be focusing on. It's a process that's going to give the president of the United States a full trial fair trial. He has been waiting as he said over. And over and over again for a fair trial in the US Senate but that fair trial is also got to be fair to the American public and not have gaps in the evidence. You can still convict or somebody not guilty guilty with APP gaps in the evidence but the fact is we need to know all of the evidence we need to know from the people there firsthand knowledge. The people that were in the room that can tell us one way or another another because all these facts are coming out sooner or later whether they get leaked out or whether they get foyer or whether they're coming out in a in a book by one of those one of those guys to to your point lean about getting out of your partisan corner in the middle of this divisive impeachment and might really surprise a lot of people to realize that the president is signing the defense authorization bill today and it has a bipartisan fix to the Kiddie tax in the widows tax which are penalties on Gold Star families in the benefits that they receive for the loss of their servicemember loved. Ones use spearheaded this effort with Republican Senator Susan Collins and in order to get this congress had reached a deal on a lot of issues the Democrats. The Republicans don't agree on. Why can't there be more of this? Well I think there is a lot more going on than than what people see. I think if you just look at what's happened in the last two weeks with the Indie a there's a lot of things. There is the paid parental leave the NDA. There's modernizing the military. There's a three point one percent pay raise for for our military families. We've also did the Future Act where we permanently fund H inman serving institutions. There was a deal reached on. US NCA where the president did a great job of negotiating that in Democrats in the house made it even better. There's a lot at that really goes on just kind of gets lost in the shuffle of mainstream media as well as social social media that we talk about the partisan divide but the fact is learn a lot of people reaching across the hour. Right now to try to figure out the ways to get things done for this country and I think if you just look at what what happened in the last two weeks. Assad from impeachment there was a lot of great things for the American people. Senator Doug Jones of Alabama. Thank you for joining us. My pleasure thank you for having smaller stage bigger fights why a battle over a wine cave took center stage in the Democratic Debate. The building it adds pete on the other hand. This is David Pain. The writer and producer of somebody somewhere a true crime investigative podcast Every now and again a story comes along that makes you question your fundamental assumptions about human survival. Somebody somewhere season to who takes you deep inside a murder mystery where three homeless teenage brothers have been charged with a double homicide in a story that has much of a search for the justice as it is for hope binge somebody somewhere season to the jungle murders wherever you get your podcast. Hey It's Howard Beck and I've got channing Frye on bleacher reports the whole forty. Small Ball is not winning like that anymore. Unless you're the rockets and at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you do is just what he does. They took the full. Forty eight is available each week on the bleacher report APP. And you can subscribe for free at Apple. PODCASTS mirror footage taking some heat as a top tier candidate in two thousand nineteen final debate and understandably so because polls show him with a good shot at winning Iowa but as C. N. N.'s. Jeff Zeleny reports. Another front runner wants to box him out as the Democratic candidate to take on president trump. The six point two. The first votes of the twenty twenty campaign is on with Joe Biden all smiles today after emerging unscathed from the final debate of the year. I do worry about this notion that the Democratic candidates spend a lot of time attacking one. Another I tried not to do that. The field of Democratic candidates finding out for one last burst of campaigning before the holidays with Amy Klobuchar opening at twenty seven county. Bus Tour of Iowa were Pete. Buddha judge is heading this weekend today. There debate class still reverberating after closure aggressively challenged the qualifications of the thirty seven year. Old South Bend Mayor. I have not denigrated your experiences. A local official I have been one actually did denigrate. My Experience Senator and I was going to let it go because we got bigger fish to fry here but we have bigger fish than picking a president of the United States. Buddha judge also coming under fire from Elizabeth Warren who repeatedly questioned his fundraising practices actresses including a recent Napa valley event billionaires in wine caves should not pick the next president of the United States Buddha jet responding that he welcomes most donations because according to Forbes magazine. I'm literally the only person on this stage. Who's not a millionaire or billionaire? The night of fireworks on stage did little to settle one of the biggest questions weighing Democratic voters does a moderate or progressive. Stand the best chance of defeating. President trump the divide is front and center on healthcare. I've added to the Obamacare plan the Biden initiative which is a public option. Medicare if you want to have Medicare put your hand down for second partner. Okay waving Joe No. It was the smallest debate lineup of the year. Just seven candidates offering a far different view of a field field was once the most diverse in history. It's both an honor and disappointment to be the lone candidate of color on the stage night. I Miss I Miss Corey though. I think he'll be back now. Speaking of Cory Booker he is campaigning in Iowa. He picked up an endorsement of a local county chairman. He said he's going to go all the way until. Those Zayas caucuses Brianna now. They're just forty five days from starting this campaign who it's finally getting close. Jeff Zeleny thank you so much from sunny. La All right. Let's this. Let's talk about Joe Biden okay. He was largely gaffe-free. He pushed back on candidates who came after his record. Do you think the debate practice here. Melanie has paid off warm. ABC finally look by. No question had the strongest debate performance. We've seen I think he largely benefited. Though from the fact that you had Warren and Amy Klobuchar overcharge going after peop booted judge so he was really able to sort of sit back and avoid a lot of the incoming fire and he. He repeated a theme right. He repeated a the theme that he's hammered home. We saw him this last night. The last few months or proof that he can work across the aisle to get things done. Let's watch anybody has reason to NOT WANNA work with Republicans starting with trump and working the way down to some of the members of the House and the Senate it's made this is about about the president has to not only be able to Fight back a president has to be able to unite so on one hand just looking at the dynamics chairman of this. He's talking about being a uniter but he also has to be trump and that's incredibly important to Democratic voters. Does it make sense that he can do both. Do you think I think he can listen. I when I was chairman of the Intelligence Committee I work with Joe Biden. Quite a bit on pretty significant issue Syria other. Thanks policy. Some we agreed on some didn't but he's easy to work with in that environment and so I do think that's a strength and I think that's probably why he's doing as well even after this much time. He's kind of defied the odds a candidate that's out front doesn't normally last out front this long and so I think that's a strength going into it and he is very different from the other direction of the of the Democrat Party. I think Peggy Noonan said it best. You can't be trump with crazy and I think think that was her way of saying. Hey you know you're going to have to Democrats if you you have to pick somebody who does know how to work Who has the experience? And who is more centrist I in his ability to govern the country even though Biden and said I'm willing to work with Republicans even though they're coming after me the question is will republicans be willing to work with him you know. He is the source of this impeachment. Fight Right now. You have a lot of Republican people in the House and in the Senate who are going after him and his son and you can see that if he becomes President Republicans will probably be calling calling to investigate him and his son overall this Ukraine matter. I think they might but at the same time he would be the president so that would be in their political interest to work with him. I mean let's remember that Mitch Mitch McConnell's got a few tough races that he's looking out for as well so we don't yet know how the Senate is going to play out the thing. That Biden has done. Well as you said. Defeat defy the odds but also so he has stood up he and his son have Bo stood up to the criticism. His campaign has actually done a very good job. Keeping him a top of the pulse and that's part of the tests and a primary primary as well by the way whoever becomes the nominee. I'm here to tell you get ready because it is going to be a daily barrage like nothing you've ever seen so the candidate has to be tough and I think think he's actually shown Dir ability but the campaign has to be able to withstand it as well so men. He did benefit as Melanie said from Senators Warren enclosure which are going after footage last tonight. They're trying to make him not a guy of the people but someone who's taking these Big Dollar donations doesn't have enough experience. Do you see forty five days out from Iowa. Do you see that being something that sticks is that something that resonates and we'll be bad for him. It'll be interesting to see what how much that ends up sticking and remember that the people to judge we'll have one advantage over the two senators who attacked him last night. He gets the chance he gets a lot of time. And a lot of chance to campaign in Iowa while Senators Warren in Senators Kluber Jar. We'll be stuck in Washington for that Senate impeachment trial so he can directly make that case to the voters that he is electable that he has a policy vision that that is reflective of of the Democratic Party. I just find I found coach. I really interesting last night too as well because she consistently does have great debate performances format. But she's still kind of stuck in that middle slash lower tier. I think she's constantly looking for. That breakout moment in Iowa key again. She's going to be stuck in Washington for that Senate impeachment spent trial well. Here's something you don't see everyday. President trump attacking popular evangelical publication. And the reason that it's it's calling for trump to be removed from office next next. Hi Everyone I'm poppy harlow. We're out with a new boss files episode. She ran for president was the first woman to run a fortune. Fifty Company and cancer survivor. Who says she is not afraid of anything anymore Carly Fiorina? She's out with a new book. Find your way unleash unleash your power. and highest potential she was. CEO of Hewlett Packard during the dotcom boom and bust before being fired in what she calls a board room brawl. Aw She's face. Discrimination survived breast cancer and lived through the unimaginable loss of a child. She calls herself a problem solver and says that's why she ran for president after running against then candidate trump in two thousand sixteen to Sheikh. Think he should be impeached now. I ask her here at all. I'm boss files subscribed today. NEWHAM NEWHAM like everybody in Palm Beach. No no one knows how he made the money happening buttoning my short and pulling my body already naked body faster than I could a for over sixty years. I've reported on Jeffrey Epstein. The man the multi-millionaire the monster. Now go behind the story with me. Vicki booed I of CNN's new. podcast the Jeffrey Epstein I knew subscribe. Now where have you get. You'll put costs. The president in a new fight with an Evangelical magazine founded by the Reverend Billy Graham the editor of Christianity today publicly saying that president trump should be removed from office. Question is when does his behavior which is described as immoral accurately rise to the level where. He's no longer fit to serve office and to me. We Cross that line with the impeachment hearings. The president firing firing back at the publication on twitter calling it a far left magazine or very progressive. Well we should point out. It's not it's not those things this is actually a centrist Evangelical John jellicoe publication. Is this going to win over any evangelical Sung Men It depends I mean. Clearly it is a very influential official publication within the Evangelical World but the president throughout his presidency and even during the campaign has had a very tight grip on the Jellicoe vote you had exit. Polls showing eighty percents outside of white evangelicals back trump and and the two thousand sixteen elections. You have a recent poll. Saying he has the support about seventy approval of seventy five percent of evangelical approve approve of them. Whereas it's hovering in the low forties overall Evangelical voters have largely look to if not the behavior of the policies of this administration. And what we saw from the campaign statement that was released by the trump campaign. On this editorial they've emphasized the president support for Israel his support for judges who who uphold religious liberty his abortion policies. And I think for now those policies are the ones that that section of voters have looked for in here. Look here's a campaign statement that we just had This is something that the president is tweeting about a ton. The son of the late Billy Graham Slam the magazine now the campaign sending out this statement. I wonder how much which this shows you about how nervous they are about this melanie especially because they're trying to get the backing of Graham family members with that steam and this was a key voting bloc for trump this is a key part of his coalition. He needs a hold onto them to be able to win reelection in two thousand twenty. But the fact that you have grams family members coming out and rallying behind him. I thinks shows how strong the support is. And if the Evangelical is didn't leave trump after the Syria decision were. They pulled out and left. Our Kurdish allies slaughtered if they didn't flee him after the Access Hollywood tapes after all these things. I don't think this editorial is very. That's exactly the point. I think part of the point as a Christian part of the point of the piece was to say enough is enough. There's enough and they've got the judges right so there's to some degree that's what he campaigned on in two thousand sixteen. They've gotten judges. And maybe the point is that constant constant immoral behavior in addition to all the other tenants of Christianity welcoming the stranger being good stewards of the earth which have all been thrown out the window. Enough is enough. You cannot lead this country offer moral leadership when you lie every day all the time and he behaved the way he does. Maybe that's the point. We're well into his presidency agency. At this point you were referring to that and the magazine address why they did this now. Here's what they wrote. We have reserved judgment on Mr Trump for years now. Some critics criticized sized us for our reserve. It's time to call a spade a spade. We're playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. What what do you think about? What do you think about the timing well? I'm not sure about the timing. But this is a crack the first real crack that I've seen because that coalition is so important Jordan and when I was in office I had a pretty simple rule. You and people can disagree with your policy. As long as you're engaged you talk to them when you embarrass the people that vote for for you. That is a different game and I think what happened over time. It was getting harder and harder and I'm not talking about the policy issues. Even impeachment necessarily it was when you attack people using the power of the presidency to attack individuals so viciously personally over time. That is just not the Christians will accept as good behavior and I think that loss of that that he didn't grow into the office he kind of doubled down on what got him there. And I think that's what you're seeing in. That article is some confusion some disappointment. And some of these folks. And maybe maybe we need to rethink this. It's not that he you can't get over this but I do think it's a crash that they're going to have to pay attention to coming up. A republican state rep accused of domestic terrorism. The trump like defense. He's using as he refuses refuses to resign in our national lead. If impeachment wasn't enough to convince you how divisive and undivided politics has become a Washington state. Republican lawmaker is accused of domestic terrorism as CNN. Sarah signer reports. He's refusing to resign and he's using President President Trump's impeachment tactics as his defense thank you. Mr Speaker seeks to put this to vote of the people stunning finding this Washington. Washington State Republican lawmaker facing accusations of domestic terrorism against the country. He swore to serve. That's according to an investigation commission by the Washington State Legislature Article One is adopted and the state rep is using president trump's impeachment as part of his defense the state has now forwarded the report against State House Representative Match Shay to the FBI and US attorney the five month long pro bounds shape participated in an act of domestic terrorism against against the United States engaged in and supported the training of youth and young adults to fight a holy war and advocated the replacement of democracy with theocracy and the killing of all males. Who Do not agree? The investigation also cited Shays engagements with the Bundy family anti-government activists who call for armed resistance in the takeover of federal lands. The report lists Shays militant actions across three states in two thousand fourteen in Bunkerville Nevada. In two thousand fifteen in Priest River Idaho and in January twenty sixteen in Burns Oregon Shea engage with militia members in the planning of an armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Wildlife Refuge. That incident ended with federal and state law enforcement moving into remove armed militia members and ultimately killing militia member Robert Lavar finicky after a police chase last night shade defended himself in a statement on facebook saying in part like we are seeing with our president. This is a sham investigation. Gatien he added. I will not back down I will not give in. I will not resign so house. Republican leadership has suspended representative additive Shea from the Caucus and removes his ranking position on a key committee the Republicans saying and noting that investigators mentioned that he didn't respond onto their request for an interview for their report. He also did not return. CNN's calls Brianna. Sarah thank you so much for that report and be sure to tune in the Sunday morning for state of the Union. The guests twenty twenty Democratic presidential candidate. Senator Amy Klobuchar Republican Senator Roy Blunt and Democratic Senator Dick Durbin that is at nine. Am and twelve PM Eastern on Sunday and our coverage on CNN continues right now so you can still send an amazing gift. This holiday season with Omaha steaks. They'll get delicious tender stakes to share remember and love and you'll get the satisfaction action of knowing you sent a special holiday gift if you act right now. podcast listeners can get the favored gift package for just sixty nine ninety nine go to Omaha on stakes DOT COM and type the lead in the search bar. You're happy friends and family will open their door and find a cooler packed. With deliciously tender filet mignon stakes aches plus premium meats sides and desert. They'll be excited when it arrives and think of you. Every time they prepare and enjoy their meals Omaha. steaks is a fifth generation. honoration American family owned company. That's been handcrafting. Incredible state gifts for one hundred two years and every package is unconditionally. Guaranteed so you can send this gift with complete confidence when you order right now with this exclusive offer. You'll get four Omaha. steaks burgers added your gift for free. That's sixteen main courses. Plus sides in desert. Christmas delivery options are still available. But don't delay order your Omaha. steaks favored gift package for. Just sixty ninety nine by typing the lead in the search bar at Omaha steaks DOT com today.

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Dispatches: Bundyville, The Remnant

Outside Podcast

1:02:43 hr | 1 year ago

Dispatches: Bundyville, The Remnant

"This episode of the outside podcast brought to you by athletes unfiltered season two. It's the new podcast from strata the world's best APP for runners and cyclists and this season. We've got an incredible series of stories from the strategy community when I say we I mean for the last few months the podcast team here at outside has been working with the folks at strata on these stories. They're all about running cycling and ultra marathoning so you've been helping out and there's some stuff in here that I'm actually Kinda jealous that they got to. I like Myrna Valero but what it's like to be an overweight ultra marathoner. I already know that I'm fat so you don't tell me that I am an ultra marathoner so please don't make assumptions about me. Please don't ask me to exercise because I exercise Lorenzen. Dan You struggles to find balance as a professional bike racer. I don't visit to anybody. I know you know close to me because it's like it's like you have been into a war zone or Brian and Tom Williams a father. Other son team took on the Comrades Ultra Marathon and South Africa. Even after Brian had been kicked out of the country. I think we're GONNA do it if we do it and if we succeed it or just be it'll be the fulfillment of a dream. It'll put your risk many of the ghosts of post. It's a series that's not so much about how to change your life to better pusher limits but about how pushing limits can change your life. The first episode of athletes unfiltered season two is out now with more episodes coming coming every other week this summer find it and subscribe and your favorite podcast APP whichever when you're listening on right now from outside magazine N._p._R.. These these are dispatches stories from writers in the field last year round this time we shared an episode of the series Bundy Ville with you about the Bundy family they had been at the center of two standoffs federal government in Nevada at the ranch in an Oregon at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge these two events kind of become flashpoints the debate about public lands in the West and there was a around dialogue about questions like should ranchers be running cattle out there should desert land be preserved as habitat for endangered species who owns the middle of nowhere. If you listen to that whole series and we can actually tell by the numbers I love you did by the time you get the end. The questions had changed a little bit. It wasn't about public lands so much as anti-government violence. This conflict started out being about the Bundy's where they could raise cattle but by the end it was bigger in about the militias religious fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists that had responded when the Bundy's put out a call for the last year reporter. Leah's Attila has been following this new threat reporting not on the Bundy's but on the people who are taking the radical accolades ideas of the Bundy's even further. You may have noticed a lot of right wing violence in the news this last year shootings synagogues and mosques bombs being mailed a prominent liberals when it comes to extremist violence twenty eighteen was actually actually one of the most violent years in America since nineteen seventy so leah wanted to know about this violence where it was coming from WHO's carrying it out and why and now a year later we've got another season of Bundy Ville the share with you the rooms all over the American West. This is another project team here at outside has been helping with so we're actually gonNA play the first two episodes for you back to back but unlike the first season that ended up really far from where it started season two who by the end is right back where it began in the small rural town of panic in Nevada a quick warning to people who may be listening with kids or triggered by this topic these episodes have some mild swearing graphic violence and discussions of racist just ideologies so just keep that in mind usually so what if I told you that in the summer of Twenty sixteen in a rural western town there was a bombing you never heard about nine one on what emergency short hell Ma'am Ma'am abreast for me okay and I I can barely Danja happened. Linden Pinnock Nevada a town about three hours north of Las Vegas Right on the border with Utah. He's he said he was going to kill you you. He said he's calling for explosives and you are you away from the home. It was July Thirteenth Twenty sixteen around eight o'clock in the evening one of those warm warm summer nights but still feels like the middle of the day Tiffany cluff was insider house with her three daughters. When a man came to the door said he was gonna blow her house up? She should get the kids and leave the man then lit the fuse on the bomb. He'd put inside the house walk to his car. Got Inside lit another bomb and shot himself in the head. Then everything blew up. Ah Shrapnel went everywhere curving in Long Arc's over the town just down the street the county sheriff some black smoke coke mushroom cloud billing into the sky but I do need additional information from the okay so she we have one dispatcher time she goes to jail any help. Appeal trees title all lines all administrative also just couldn't y'all got physics. If you try to so that's Panetta's Sheriff Carrie Leigh he lives down the street and he had no idea what was going on. who was was involved but tiffany Kloof? She knew the bombers. Is there anyone injured or do you see anyone injured. Who Came Glenn Jones came into Your House for House from long reads and Oregon Public Broadcasting? This is Bundy fill the remnant. I'm the utility it was about eight o'clock in the evening. Just normal summer evening people out walking kids riding bikes people mowing lawns just normal. Nothing out of the ordinary cheerfully was just standing in his yard with his dog when it happened so he yanked his dog inside grabbed the keys to his patrol rig and drove toward the chaos. You know my mind is like troy hundred mile an hour trying to figure out what in the world and with at that time twenty eight years Moore's law I mean I'd seen a lot of been experience a lot. I'm still trying to comprehend what in the world is going on here. You know carvedilol like that in a movie okay when you see a movie that's how they don't like that. Panetta gets share of loud noises from a nearby air. Force Base is Sheriff said he knew right away. This was something different and I literally felt in my chest. I felt the concussion in my chest. Then I could see the mushroom cloud coming up over the air though in the world in the I could hear the power here that I thought this was the last place that anyone expected a bomb to go off. Tiffany cluff recognized the bomber but no one else had any idea what was going on it was sheriff lease job to respond and figure figuring out so I grabbed the key patrol rig and by the time I got to my patrol car. The second explosion happens in the more he told us about it the crazier the story got we pulled up and of course people from the community were already pulling in their vehicles and we actually had to weave through cars get into the to where the houses and we were waved as as stop stop. Stop your body parts. I said what run around her body parts and that's what they said. Look over there look over. There's a subtle leagues the belt down laying on the road. The first bomb blew up the house of Tiffany and her husband Josh cluff. They were nurses in town and live there with their kids. Josh was in home when it happened and the rest of the family escaped just in time. The second bomb was in a car parked next to the House and the man inside the bomber was Glenn Jones a former nurse who used to work under Josh at the Hospital Sheriff Lee pulled up to a scene that was absolute mayhem mayhem and like other body parts everywhere share flea is a guy with many jobs in Panetta and when he arrived he wasn't sure which job he was supposed to be doing okay so this is a small small town small community small county and we all wear different hats okay and you're gonNA probably get a chuckle out of this but I am also the fire chief here in Pinnock okay volunteer volunteer. They see you are also as sheriff. You're also the corner of the county corner also correct. I'm on the Emergency Planning Commission for the county. I try to somewhat hold of family on. I helped my father run the ranch so so between auto spare time a little bit between midnight four A._M.. Okay so he's at the scene and he's got body parts. That means Corner Hat Sheriff Lee told me and my producer Ryan has that it's his job to identify fi who's limbs were scattered everywhere but he can't really I._D.. Anyone with just some legs and we did not actually find the upper torso. which is what we need it for vacation? I don't care about the do care but that's not I need. I need the torso legs. Any I mean I need fingerprints. I need dental records and that type of stuff to be able to identify someone took investigators about fourteen hours to find the top half of Glen Jones when they did he wasn't laid out on his back and easy to identify a tree in the neighbor's yard. Yeah bazaars it is but even more bizarre was that when they found the body and how these strange tattoos on it during the cores investigation he was identified by a couple of ways he we're able to give fingerprints were able to get some some dental and <hes> crazy enough tattooed on his chest said D._N._R.. which do not resuscitate my that's my my medical? Training is the army's resuscitate and phone number for the victims house or the victim the victim of the house his phone number bizarre you know I don't even know how to venture on that. I just that's one of the most bizarre things that I've encountered on a death to. Have somebody ask you something like that on them. I don't know I don't know he had he had a lot of medical training so I know I know that's why I think d._N._R.. Was He knows what the arm it but he knows medical d._N._R.. Is Not resuscitate can ask a stupid question when you guys saw the phone number tattooed. Did you call the number. It's a really good question. I think we looked at up our system and saw that job. Why isn't this guy after the first season of Bundy villa last year? I had no intention of making thing anymore. I wanted to find out why the Bundy family would take on the government twice in why all these really different militia groups flocked to their side for the most part I got answers the Bundy's tapped into an anti-government worldview that exists just under the surface out west and created an image of the true American cowboy for people to rally around but after they won their court cases the Bundy's started to disappear disappear they'd gotten what they wanted and they're still running cows on public land without paying your grazing fees and of story right but the anti-government group's who'd come to their side. They didn't go away the Bundy's brought together the oath keepers sovereign citizens three percenters in the right wing media all the people who think the government is out to get them basically the catchall term for these groups is the Patriot movement and that movement didn't go away just because cliven Bundy went back to ranching so before you go any further if you haven't listened to that season go do that now. Season Two is going to build off a lot of the things we talked about last time time. Actually the first question I had when I came across the story of the bombing in Panetta was whether or not it was connected to the Bundy's in the Patriot movement and everything from season one was this extremist violence some form of of domestic terrorism or just a dispute between co workers. There wasn't any obvious connection. It was just this weird thing but it's not like bombs blood everyday in this country and I wanted to know more so producer user Ryan Harrison. I flew out there. pennock is this gravelly town on the Nevada side of the border with Utah a desert outpost that was founded in eighteen sixties by Mormon pioneers see only town in Nevada. That's dry hi meaning. You can't buy alcohol there. One of just two in the state were gambling is prohibited. There's a sign at the town listing the ten commandments like that'll keep the devil out so Panetta's God country and it's such a western Cliche cliche that I literally watched tumbleweed roll down the middle of the street. It's a place where you know your neighbor and you know that really knowing him means understanding. What's Your Business? What isn't ask someone about Glen Jones and they'll say they knew him? Nice guy blew up a house. One time it was strange and sad more than one anakin tells me they wouldn't wanNA speculate about why a bombing occurred in their town but then offered an opinion opinion anyway for the most part people think the bomb could have been allowed messy expression of a workplace grievance between Glenn Jones and Josh cluff Josh at one time was Glenn's boss at the local hospital and they we're good friends Glenn even help Josh build his house in Panetta but about a year before the bombing Glenn left his job at the hospital later he also losses nursing license for mishandling morphine so people think maybe. Maybe Glenn blamed Josh I'd heard and the he headed grudge with him. Glenn Wadsworth family home is next door to the cliffs. He was out mowing the lawn when the bombing happened was the last person seek Glenn Jones alive the gentleman got out of that car and I watched him get out of that car walk around back in the House and he walked back in you know he weighed at me and was mowing the lawn watts. We're told us that this weird feeling came over and while he was mowing that he should skip the rest of the front yard and move around to the back so we did and there's no question that I wouldn't be here for mobile the east side and the southside saved my life that night sure in fact nobody but the bomber was hurting the blast. This was a common story. I heard everyone remembers where they were that day and how no-one got hurt even when shrapnel rain down like hail of a clear Blue Sky Sky the worst thing that happened was a boy who's riding his bike by the clubhouse got smacked with a piece of something was knocked off his bike. He got a bruise really I mean you probably could look at that kid shoulder and they wouldn't miss car that kid's mom works at the local bed-and-breakfast. She made us pancakes when we were there and she told us she thought the angels of Panetta's ancestors were looking out for the town that day for some people in Panetta. That's really all the explanation they need. God kept them safe. There aren't any official answers anyway. Share Flea tells me that shortly after the bombing it became an F._B._i.. Investigation and all the F._B._I.. Told me when I asked for comment was was that it's quote the policy of the F._B._i.. Not to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation it was clear. Nobody in town can really answer my questions but people were still thinking about it. A couple people asked me to call them if I found out what really happened between Glenn Jones and Josh cluff it's only after I left Panetta that I may be found an answer an answer that pointed to something much bigger than a petty disagreement between co workers. After visiting Panetta. I started calling around. Glenn Jones had been living in Kingman Arizona in an R._V. Park right before the bombing happened. I called all the tattoo shops in town thinking maybe someone would remember doing a weird phone number Tattoo and while my calls did peak the curiosity of a lot of kingman tattoo artists no knew anything about it. I also look for Jones's relatives online but turned up. Nothing substantial social what I did learn is that Jones got some training in field artillery during his eleven years in the Army National Guard but he never saw combat in fact. He never left his home state of Colorado during his service in Kingman Jones's well liked by the people there as he wasn't Panetta remembered for his deference more than any other quality the manager the R._V. Park where he lived told me that just days before the bombing Jones owns came into his office and paid the rent for a neighbor going through chemo. He told the manager not to say who did it. An Panetta not only did no one say negative thing to me about Jones most wouldn't even call him by his name. They referred to him as the suspect or the person. The National News didn't cover it either. This was a bombing on American soil and sure no one was hurt but the bomber but it's hard to imagine if he'd been brown or black or anyone else but a white guy that this would have been a non story after the bombing the Kingman Police Department rated Glenn Jones's trailer so I got copies of their police reports they found bomb-making materials inside a few spiral bound journals Jones name on the cover inside one. There were diagrams for a bomb one detective said quote the entries indicated that Glenn Jones it had been approached by a subject identified as Josh who offered to pay him to construct an explosive device the intended target the officer wrote was identified as Fourth of July beal field office but here's where things things get murky because the fourth of July came and went that year and nothing happened in by July thirteenth. Jones decided instead to target Josh Cliff here sheriff. We I don't know I I don't know an I truly still to this day. Don't truly know what the victim and the suspects true relationship was. There were friends at one point time. They're very good friends. I wondered if there is a chance Jones or cluff might have had some beef with the federal federal government some reason they would've wanted to bomb a beal field office and it turned out there was hello everyone this boyfriend come one cow boyish Dan for freedom and I promised that I'd make more videos radio when things progress between me and the federal government to be all I'm in particular and they have before the twenty sixteen takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon. Nobody really knew Lavoix finicky by the time he went to Oregon in the most public facing presence he had where the youtube videos he'd been posting for a few months about his fight with the Bureau of land-management Remember. He's the guy from Malheur who was killed reaching for a gun in his jacket during a traffic stop at a roadblocks set up by police to arrest the leaders of the occupation for now. We know who is that by July twenty sixteen when the bomb went off in Nevada the cluff home Finnigan was dead in the Patriot movement was talking about him as a martyr proof of tyrannical government murdering Americans your hand everywhere you look in the Patriot movement you'll see Finnigan's cattle brand on hats shirts tattoos belt buckles lls flags bumper stickers people write songs about him. He's become the figurehead of a movement in their report. Kingman police wrote that there was an entry in Jones's notebook indicating that La- VOIP and it comes death was a possible motive for the planned attack on the beal office and that quote Josh is the cousin of Lavoie finicky him. I was able to confirm the Josh. CLUFF is related to finish them but that's not proof. He was involved so I asked sheriff. Lee was coffee angry at the government over his cousin's death. He said he couldn't say but he told us a story about a time time way. Before the bombing that lead did see an anti-government side to Kloof. He didn't WanNa give us too many details since it involves someone having a medical crisis but the just was that at the hospital sheriff s cleft help give medical attention to someone and couldn't decide to ask for it themselves cleft wasn't having it got really angry started yelling but got a little bit of eye-opening about how Josh felt about out government overreach so just to be clear Glenn Jones blew up the House of Josh cluff who was related to Lavoix Finchem Finnigan's death according to the police report was possibly Glenn Jones's motive for the bombing of appeal and building but that bombing never happened Jones targeted cluff instead it's unclear whether cluff and Jones were working together to bomb the bill and building it first and something went wrong or Jones was working alone and decided the damn close house for some other reason what was close role and all this was he ever investigated. I don't know because the F._B._i.. Won't even tell me if there is an investigation so what happened between the two of them we know they were involved. Financially police found a contract for twenty two acres of land that Jones bought from cluff for fifty thousand dollars. There was also an account that would pay out to cluff in the event of Jones's death but but I can't tell if any of that connects to the bombing cluff is never given any straight answers about Jones or Lavoix or bomb anabela office shortly after the bombing the clubs packed up what few belongings they could salvage aged moved to Idaho again. Police have not said that the family has done anything wrong they only confirmed that they did in fact service search warrant here at the family's new house and also at the families old house the site of the explosion Lahj. We're back in Panetta. There's nothing where the house used to be. Just an empty lot filled with mud. I walked the whole perimeter of it while we were there. Thinking some answer about what really happened might present itself but all I got were muddy shoes and nervous looks from a guy standing quietly on his porch across the street watching Ryan. I poke around like Weirdos so after I got home I got in touch with cluff on facebook and ask for an interview finally after a few messages is he wrote back quote. We're just happy and not trying to dig up the past he said I typed at a response immediately that it wasn't trying to compromise that happiness but that it seemed like his side of the story had really come out what in his mind was the truth why the held in Glen Jones Have Josh's phone number tattooed on his body. I hit send but by then cluff had blocked me months later I found an email forum and I reached out again and I tried one more time to get cleft to say something. I sent him the evidence I had nast whether the bombing was about his cousin Voi- Finnigan he responded quote. Those were terrible times for my family which we're trying to move past at the I did their due diligence and cleared me of any involvement have a nice night. Please be respectful of what my family has gone through so here's what we know. However the peninsula bombing came to target Josh in Tiffany cluff instead of a be a lamb building it appeared of begun as a response to the death of a Lavoix finicky him it was in some ways a continuation in the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge which was itself a ripple effect of the standoff at Bundy ranch in the years since the Bundy's high profile standoffs there have been more and more acts of extremist violence popping up in the the news and it seems like each time the radical ideas that inform the Patriot movement come up to turn to the news and the man suspected of sending a wave of mail bombs across the country is in handcuffs tonight like a Florida man who mailed bombs to prominent imminent liberals like Barack Obama Hillary Clinton and George Soros because he thinks they're a part of a shadowy ball? He's also active on social media and often posted anti liberal messages and conspiracy theories to twitter or Georgia man killed a cop considered himself a sovereign citizen and nation unto himself reclaim to be a sovereign citizen meaning. He didn't recognize police authority or the shooter in New Zealand who've been fire onto mosques because of what he saw as a so called white genocide New Zealand is a nation stricken tonight a self-declared white supremacist gunned down Muslims at prayer today not to give the Bundy's too much credit but no bombs went off at now here. No shots were fired at Bunkerville so when this season of Bundy Ville we're not actually talking to any BUNDY's instead we're talking about the people who picked up where they left off the remnant of their movement and then we're following the violence following the ripple outward from avoids boy's death through `Pinaka. Try and figure out what's coming next where it'll be coming from what the pinnacle bombing probably is is a tiny window too small to see the whole picture but a window nonetheless into extremist ideologies how those ideologies become violent but I couldn't ask Glenn Jones why he blew up the clubs house or if the bombing was supposed to send some sort of message but there was someone else someone someone who is at Bundy ranch who knew Lavoix Finchem and who also tried to blow up a government building in the summer of two thousand sixteen and when I called him up. He said he'd be happy to tell me anything. I wanted to know it's February twenty nine thousand nine hundred and I met a truck. Stop outside Salt Lake City Utah. It's just after four o'clock. The sons already going down range of snow covered mountains looms nearby producer Ryan Harrison. I have come here to meet with a guy named bill keebler and we're nervous. Keebler has been involved with the Patriot movement since Bunkerville where he he says he ran security afterward. He started his own militia fifty seven year old. William Keebler is known by the F._B._i.. As commander of a citizen militia group called the Patriots Defense Force in fact Keebler has been portrayed as one of the most dangerous people in the Patriot treatment according to the court documents F._B._i.. Undercover agents infiltrated Keebler Group and took part in field training exercises they say keebler talked to members of his militia about quote going on the offensive in June of two thousand any sixteen just a month before Glenn Jones Flip the club family home in Panetta Keebler hit the button to detonate what he thought was a bomb set to destroy a building owned by the Bureau of Land Management. Thought is the keyword there it turns out. His bomb was a fake given to him by undercover F._B._i.. Agents who had embedded in his group even before his arrest Bill Keebler thought there was some grand conspiracy of play and that for some reason the government was out to him personally the thing is it turned out he was one hundred percent right about that from long reads in Oregon Public Broadcasting. This is Bundy Ville. I'm Leah Silly. When Glenn Jones shot himself in the head waiting for his bombs to blow up and Panetta he took with him answers to all sorts of questions about why he did what he did but by talking to Keebler I hope we might learn something about how right wing bombers operate and what they're thinking why does someone in the Patriot movement like diffuse or press the button and why now Keebler Jones had both set off their bombs in the summer of two thousand sixteen four to five months after the mail your? Occupation in Oregon had resolved so what changed after Mao here today anything smokes in Coffee Real Quick Bill Keebler looks like shriveling old ranch hand and he's got leathery skin smoker's cough says he beat cancer once and has had four heart procedures two thousand thirteen massive heart attack and had to go in for mercy open heart surgery where at a denny's he's tucked into the corner of the truck stop for most of his working years. Keebler was a horse wrangler and hunting guide with his own company Creator gator outfitters off in Georgia crews we ease into the conversation Ryan than I are just trying to get a feel for who were talking to what we can and can't ask but it turns out gablers a storyteller and he's happy to talk all about his past. He's got stories from his time. In the army. Eleven Bravo Infantry <hes> went to a lot of specialized training for bed and when Germany I'll ended there. I think one of Friday Saturday morning I woke up on Russian communist Russian border says it also knows his way around computers due to do codes nutrition they can't break and they still have nothing good anyway even says he has a black belt. In Kung Fu studied numerous rumors are ranked black Belton for different styles <hes> eighty six eighty six before board of Masters and I presented the new system he says he he created his own system of Kung-fu. You can tell keebler likes to think of himself as a kind of elderly Rambo own and I should be clear I wasn't able to verify most of his stories but I also wasn't in Utah to figure you're out whether he got third place in the Kung Fu world championships. I wanted to know what happened with the F._B._i.. But I that meant convincing him that we weren't f._B._I.. Agents raided talk to people like I'm going to be honest way would surprise present both David pulled out badge. I just went shutting what I've seen because in keebler swirled everyone's a potential threat and you can't be too careful. He's been burned once already asked him why is even telling me story with me. I've been borrow town for years. I came here because I wanted to hear Keebler side of the bombing and understand how and why things became violent I couldn't get answers from Glenn Jones who police said had wanted to target a government building so I had hoped keebler would help me understand why a person will try to detonate a bomb but just a few minutes into the interview. What I'm really wondering is how did the F._B._I.? Decide to focus on this guy is this <music> old man in poor health really the most dangerous person Patriot movement. If you skip over the special forces training the computer hacking and martial arts inventing thing the verifiable part of Bill Keebler story starts in two thousand fourteen when he spent about two weeks in Bunkerville Nevada on Cliven Bundy's ranch the family in some militias were facing off with the bureau of land management because the Bundy's hadn't paid their grazing fees and the beal had come to collect their cattle the fact that Keebler was there was later used by government prosecutors in court as evidence of his extremism back then Keebler says he was a member of the the oath keepers a militia associated with the Patriot movement and by his account at Bundy ranch he was a bodyguard for the family. He claims he's the guy who kept things from descending into violence. We've not actually stop a lot of people alive. I like them. Play up there. <hes> how stop some people didn't WanNA shoot people when I've got mad about him for the game I fix he wanted to start the war. Do I want to WHO said I won't fire shot just to get started because if one shot had ever went off up there it's done you don't care if it was a firecracker backfire necessary base. Oh my God I hope Accardo have backfired you know or so might those down firecracker on the ground things with that volatile. I mean it was ready. I don't want to Rehash Bundy ranch but the long short of it is no cars backfired. no-one fired any shots and the government backed down and after the Bundy's cows were released released the agents left Keebler was pumped up in the Patriots big win to me. It was one of the biggest events in this country. This has in his history short at Boston Tea Party <hes>. I'm not apparent to show but we're not like that but it was a wakeup call soon the following months back at home in Utah Keebler started his own militia. He called it Patriots Defense Force or P._D._F.. It was a group of a half a dozen or so guys the got together mostly talk about self reliance basically they did survival training practice target shooting. They were anti-government. rappers talked a lot about going off grid about what to do when shit hit the Fan Keebler even showed people how to raise chickens rabbits for meat then a few months later keebler says he got a phone call from someone he'd met at Bunkerville McCoy finicky. He wanted me to basically come in his place and give him the support that we gave abundance. You'll recall that lavoix Finnigan was a leader of the Malheur wildlife refuge occupation was eventually killed by police at a roadblock in Oregon and that he was the cousin of Josh Wash cloth whose house was blown up Panetta but back then Finnigan was just a rancher in Arizona and Keebler said he was building up to his own bunkerville style standoff with the B._L._M.. I can't fully verify what was said in this phone call but but I do know that around this time in the late summer of Twenty fifteen finish Adam was becoming agitated with the Bureau of Land Management Bill Governor said has exclusive legislative power over these lands. What's he was making that pretty obvious on youtube page? No none of these bureaucrats do we allow here Monte County none of ever accountable to US Mohave County. This is the definition of tiered from the way Keebler tells the story finicky was not only upset he was looking for a fight and Keebler who advertises his supposed expertise in military tactics to anyone who listen was happy to bring his militia. Come help him prepare for the confrontation at the Bundy's. We got there after the fat. If we knew it was coming we could be prepared. They were actually <hes>. Apparently they won't come at just take all his cattle but it's pretty unlikely that anyone was coming for Phoenix. Cattle records from the beal showed Vinnicombe only owed about fourteen hundred dollars in grazing fees by comparison cliven Bundy owed more than a million dollars crude over twenty years for the beal plan to cattle roundup end up that led to the standoff near his ranch but that didn't stop Finchem from preparing for the worst or Keebler from helping him do it. They came up with a plan that was different than what the Bundy's had done at Finnigan's ranch. They decided they would let the federal agents onto the land where he grazes cattle and then spring a trap don't mean ambush assault and kill and shoot none of that cracks where everybody at the plan was to let the beal. I'm on the property and then using excavator to destroy the road behind them so they're truck couldn't get out certain place when they come up hill them cattle. They can't get up hill keebler a saying sounded way more extreme of an approach than what I saw a Bundy ranch or an Oregon he was saying they would trap federal agents and I had to wonder then. What are they going to keep them? Hold them hostage. Why trap them in the first place but before I could get an answer Keebler told me that another member of his militia wanted it to blow them all up Brad Miller's idea what he's bom up Keebler says Brad Miller wanted to set off a bomb at the roadblock but he had a few problems with that the first of all you killing mask cattle to you're killing whoever's truck but Brad Miller wasn't just a cattle killing dumb ass? He was actually an undercover F._B._i.. Agent in fact at varying times there were three confidential informants and three undercover F._B._i.. Agents in Keebler militia so if you take away keebler the F._B._i.. Agents and informants there were at most just three members of P._D._F.. Militia Gotcha all this time Finnigan Keebler had been planning a confrontation with federal agents with the help of federal agents by the Spring of Twenty sixteen federal agents had been keyboards militia for more than a year trying to quote take his temperature according to text messages between agents on the surface. It seemed like a standard F. B. I. Undercover Operation We for the bad guys do bad stuff and then take him down but the more I talked to Keebler in the more the government blocked me from accessing his court records the more I started wonder about what role the government was really playing in the P._d._f.. Militia between the two agents and Leonard Informant Dave became the most active when we went down to Arizona to voice they pay for the whole trip but <hes> I'm. They were a good financial support and we needed that according to court documents the F._B._i.. Agent who who went Brad Miller taunted Keebler this was the same guy who keebler says had the idea to blow up federal agents unfinished comes property and he said that the Patriots and P._d._f.. Were just quote facebook fucking Nazis in other other words guys who have a lot to say online but never take action in real life Keebler in response suggested the group do some recon of potential targets in Salt Lake City agent Brad Miller core documents say was one of the most active members of the militia suggested targeting Muslims but keebler said he didn't know how to find any so miller offered to Google a mosque Mitch. I know we're pulling up to a mosque. I and I said Look you've lost your mind. Now looking around I said all of you've lost your F- mine's not mainly to Brag as we were clashing there he said but what would it take. Why couldn't we so I'll tell you why you can't? I said you see that thing behind your your left shoulder looks under this gas towers. You'd be amazed what sending things cameras monitor buildings. That's that's one reason. Can't you know getting a modest place second. Look at the terrain and I'll starting to break it down to tell him I said now he noted for you got look over people walking out coming in and out playing basketball. You see that those are kids. This women children are playing basketball shit. y'All loss again so the group moved on and drove past a bureau of Land Management Office Miller suggested that they mail a bomb to it or use a truck bomb to blow it up. Dude gone see no. That's feeling though you know how many people in do you know what this whole. Scouting mission was going nowhere. They thought Keebler take the lead and blowing up government buildings but he just wasn't biting if it sounds like the F._B._i.. Was Pushing Keebler to take some sort sort of drastic action. It turns out. Even some of their own agents were worried about that in court documents their records of text messages one of the other undercover F._B._i.. Agents who went by the name Jake Davis sent to was handler right after this happened he wrote quote. I hope we didn't open Pandora's box in a way by taking keebler to a mosque he might not have found on his own. I'm worried about our liability. If he happens to go back sometime on his own in another text Davis worried about Miller's continued taunting of keebler quote. I'm all for pushing him but we can't sound more radical. He wrote to me. That's what it sounds like. We're doing later he wrote. I'm not down with giving him all the ideas like when Miller told him that we would have to mail a bomb to the beal office or drive a car bomb up to it. We can't be putting crazy ideas into a crazy guys head but they didn't more than just put ideas in Dennis head over the course of their investigation the F._B._I.. Agents posing as militia members drove keebler around the West to Patriot movement gatherings they paid for trainings. They were the majority of his militia and then finally only in the spring of two thousand sixteen keebler started to buy in he told the militia that they were going to target beal. 'EM FACILITIES WAY OUT in the middle of nowhere specifically a beal building that he had scouted near Finnigan's ranch Vinnicombe by hi then had been killed in a traffic stop in Oregon over the next couple of months the F._B._I.. made him of fake pipe bomb and then on June twenty-first Twenty Sixteen Keebler and some of his militia traveled to Arizona and set the bomb outside the building keyboard. Push the button on a fake detonator the F._B._i.. Gave Him and then the next morning they arrested him. Tops Picnic brought me handcuff misguide comes in addressed a bigger negotiating green on his face loud she mr cable trying to bust your sorry ask for two years they had busted him in all it took was three agents three paid informants in two years of pushing keebler before they convinced him to set off a fake bomb way out in the middle of the desert in almost makes you wonder if the F._B._i.. Hadn't been around would keillor's militia have just kept on raising chickens cooking rabbits. It's being facebook. Nazis entrapment is very hard to prove in court. <hes> the burden is it. I is on the defense rather than on the prosecution to bring bring the case. This is Karen Greenberg. She's the director of the Center on National Security Forum Law the school in New York City. I asked her about the legality of the F._B._I.. Pushing a guy like keebler you when you go to court or when you read the court documents they look very much like you know somebody was placed in the midst of this group was listening and picked up information. Asian that was used useful and usable right and then the other end of the spectrum which is who provided the munitions who provided the plot who provided the ideology who it's it's at hooper who really ran ran this if you look at the active elements of it I just want to note that Greenberg's primary focus is international terrorism and she haughty groups but there's some crossover between the cases. She's watched and the Keebler case so so like is it common in the cases pieces than you've watched like this that that someone will say like here's a bomb or hey. Why don't we Google mosque for you or hey how this or do this or in this case is individual keebler was like I don't know guys like you know Oh and then we went and interviewed him he said I guess I just got it in my mind? That's what I should do at a certain point okay so the F._B._I.'s defense on this and it's worth thinking about because it's it's got legitimacy to it which is look. I could have been all kinds of and if I could get them to do it. Don't you think al Qaeda get them to do it. And it works with a jury it works and because what they say to the jury is would you have said yesterday this F._B._i.. Guy So maybe that's the logic to the keebler case that if the feds could get to Keebler some with a plan and target and connections to a bombmaker could too so he belonged in jail but this interpretation of the law is fairly new and controversial basic a cruel that they're called the attorney. General guidelines required an F._B._i.. Agent to have a reasonable indication that criminal activity may occur in the nineteen ninety s Michael German was an undercover F._B._i.. Agent agent who went inside militia groups in the Pacific northwest he works for the Brennan Center for Justice now but it's previous work was infiltrating White Supremacist Neo Nazi groups. German tells me that before nine eleven in order to to investigate someone the F._B._i.. Needed a reasonable indication that that person was about to commit a crime pretty low standard. I hit most most F._B._I.. Agents wake wake up in the morning pretty suspicious but after nine eleven the Bush administration wrote new guidelines allowing the F._B._i.. To investigate pretty much anyone. Why would you want to investigate somebody? You don't have a reasonable factual basis to believe are doing something wrong. I mean this doesn't make any sense and clearly what it opens. Up Is the opportunity to to target people who who you don't like German says that in order to watch someone all the F._B._i.. Needs is a theory that maybe that person could commit a crime someday in the future initially it was mostly used against Muslims but has broadened out because it's a successful tactic as far as the F._B._i.. Is concerned it is broadened out other groups and my concern with that is your targeting. The lowest hanging fruit right not pretty much describes keebler the low hanging fruit after sitting in talking with him for three hours. I'm not convinced he could put a bomb plot together. He didn't have any targets identified. You didn't know how to build a bomb and and when it's defense attorney found those text messages at the F._B._I.. Waffling about whether or not they were putting crazy ideas into crazy guys head government offered him a plea deal. Even keebler says the F._B._I.. Got To him well they was he'll a bit determined to do something and I guess I kinda. Let it get my head that maybe if we did something to cutler mode kind of like a warning signal. There are two ways to look at Keebler I as a man with the potential to commit violence silence because the F._B._i.. May Have given him the bomb but he still hit the button and to be honest. It's easier to see him that way as an off his rocker militia member but that's probably too easy of an answer because whatever he did he probably L.. We wouldn't have been able to do it without the F._B._I.'s help. So how much blame does he really deserved. Whichever version of Bill Keebler is more accurate guy we're talking to here at Denny's is a paranoid man who thinks to the government may actually be justified in that paranoia at one point in our conversation he went silent and then told us that we were under surveillance? He based on US Shit. Okay we'll be in watched washed F._A.. Or form where do you just want bud you yet yeah for two years the F._B._i.. I tracked Bill Keebler and now he sees them everywhere. They're watching him when he smokes in his backyard. He goes to the grocery store. They're hiding in plain sight serving coffee at Denny's just to get to him. It's not everyday you talked to someone who's tried to bomb a building and I have to say for a while talking to Keebler. I felt like the F._B._I.. Had totally missed the mark and basically manipulated otherwise innocent man so they could get a conviction but about an hour into our conversation things took a hard turn and he didn't seem so innocent anymore. In fact it became very hard to talk to him. It happened when I asked him about how he thinks the federal the government should work your ideal situation with the federal government the state government would that look like like what would that would that running their own themselves the government doing the job they were meant to be the the government's purpose is basically for foreign affairs. He says that the government can do it's thing trading with China in Korea but is no damn business running Utah Georgia or Texas then he starts talking about how Muslims are taking over schools. You can't do a pledge of allegiance in our school with now we got Muslims praying and everything else in the hallways in our schools and in our classrooms and teachers are now making kids dress up like Muslims James. I asked Keebler. Give me an example where this was happening but he just said number places yeah they have taken over host cities. They WANNA stop prayer. They won't stop all the American stuff boy scouts and everything I make an Islam they're out in the streets right mean with hundreds of imbalanced shutdown whole rose in concert standing over mixture. Nobody eruption are you serious badly tanks her for about fifty rednecks before pickup. Draft will end April Keebler is advocating for something that sounds like intimidation at best and slaughtering Muslims in the streets of America at the worst and it's all informed by his conspiratorial world view. Maybe this is the kind of talk brought the F._B._I.. To him don't cops now. They're dressed up. They got well. It looks like police cars and what looks like police uniforms and they're doing what they want. Now there was a god it was preaching Christianity to up there and he's been arrested. It's on the Internet right now need to get homework. You think the federal you think the federal government is involved in that or you just think that it should be no shock at this point to tell you that Keebler is also also an ardent donald trump supporter. He loves him and HE HATES BARACK. Obama thinks he's a part of some deep state plot to turn America into Muslim only nation but his the agreement that they put him in the president isn't too he would make way for more Muslims to be of getting the United States Ness. What's actually come out recent? I wanted to news some reporters. Here has made president of more Muslims. Yes that's the arranged to be able. I love like Soros is finding a lot of a lot of this is about the new world order looked pedophilia going on right now. They can kill a child hours. After it's been born they keep alive long enough. The Oregon's developed in Joachin and hardship for parts at this point in our interview Keebler is looking at Ryan than I like. We're crazy like how do we not know any of this. I don't know none of this. We're looking at Keebler. Like how crazy do you have to be to believe this stuff at this point in our conversation. It was hard to know how to continue talking to Keebler. I feel like I understand how far down a conspiratorial spiritual rabbit hole. You have to be nor to detonate a bomb that helps me understand Glenn Jones to but at the same time Keebler is a big and that bigotry has clouded his entire perspective on the world keebler his this whole life revolves around conspiracy theories but in the world of militias and anti-government groups this is actually nothing new so we got on the phone with author Jesse Walker to help with a guy like Keebler in context Walker wrote a book called the United States of of Paranoia. I wanted to understand the rule that conspiracies have played in militia groups throughout history. You know in the Cold War era <hes> right wing conspiracy theories to you had groups like the John Birch society sort of shifting from in the nineteen sixties sixties from fierce where all the <hes> the enemy is based in Moscow furious where the enemy is based in New York and <hes> manipulating Moscow and then in the nineties after the Cold War ended events like Ruby Ridge in Waco L. happened conspiracy shifted again but in the nineteen nineties you lose the context of the Cold War and so it's much easier to just sort of see Washington as the enemy period <hes> you also have on the rise of the Internet and while I'm not so who who argues that the Internet made people more paranoid made people more conspirists I do think one thing that it definitely did was allow more mixing among <hes> all these different groups of people who had previously been much more <hes> separate from one another. You know Keebler fits this description of the modern conspiracy theorist someone looking for target for their anger he was in the army fighting communism. When the Cold War ended he had to look somewhere else and joined up with militias other so-called Patriot groups to fight the government now he's a foot soldier for trump and his new enemies are immigrants and Muslims and women in an abortion doctors the bill and George Soros Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama the deep state? He lives in an acid bath of conspiracy theories so ask Keebler. Where's all this going in his mind during the Obama Administration if he declared more slow rally me rarely ran me to Lesser Central Command Post Him we'll go from there? We start operations at at that point that would have been should fan so what's the difference now. What's what's think trump declared martial law it would be more controlled manner well? He's not come after Patriots. Relation do not know now she there you go pushing a racist. I asked you know they got an able oh so angry when I asked him. If this entire world shaded conspiracies government cabals it's really just a veil for his racism after he spent an hour telling wildly inaccurate stories about Sharia law and evasions invasions at the border how Muslims are plague in Christian nation like America. He tells me I'm off base to ask if this all really comes down to bigotry Keebler is built his world around these extremist ideas. He's not willing to back down from them that how much is clear when Ryan awesome at different question. What do you think happens if the Democrats impeach trump or some kind of charges abroad? What do you think happens with the Patriot? I'll that's all just what I'm here seeing on the Internet. All bets are off. Was I'll bet you off take their bill. Keebler guy who tried to blow up government building in who lives on a steady stream of hate from the Internet says that he's had enough if anything were ever happen to his guy trump and he thinks it'd be time to take up arms again. People are putting retaliation. They want revenge. They won't payback for a lot of things his abortion crap what had milivoy what has happened our children what has happened to the our streets whereas in our schools people want <hes> retribution. They want what Shit Stop. I still don't know what to make Keebler. I'm not sure you can really tell us anything about Glen Jones but if you look at Keebler on what changed before four and after the Bunkerville and Malheur standoffs the biggest differences that afterward the F._B._i.. Turner's world upside down pushed him toward violence. It's not illegal to believe racist things. Our country is built on the the idea that you have the right to complain about the government so it's not really clear to me at the F._B._I.'s own conspiring to get keebler help. Take a dangerous guy off the streets for a few years or made a blowhard into a radical who could snap if the political winds change but what I do think keebler case makes clear is that he's somebody who can be influenced into taking action keillor's paranoia and belief in nearly every conspiracy he comes across seems to open this crack in his worldview that seemingly anyone can exploit. He's an attack dog waiting for a command. It happened with the F._B._i.. When he pushed the button and happened was Lavoix finicky him when he plotted trap beal agents in a memo included with his court records? The government wrote that after keebler pushed the button on their bomb he told the agents this isn't about Lavoix. It's what he stood for. So keebler Glenn Jones make at least two people in two months timeframe invoking Finnigan's his name is they carried out a violent action which got me wondering about how many more people influenced by what finicky supposedly stood for and if those people really knew what he stood for or if they had just as keebler might say read it on the the Internet Phantom seems to have this outsized influence on the Patriot movement because he died so why does some deaths fade away and others become catalysts for violence. That's next time on Bundy Ville that was Lisa Tilly host of Bundy Ville. This episode was written and produced by Leah Ryan has and me Peter for Greg Music and sound design by Robbie Carver Bonneville has editorial oversight from Kelley Stout Mike Dang and Anna Griffin fact checking by Matt Giles Research help from Kim Freda especial. Thanks David Stocky.

Finnigan Keebler cliven Bundy Panetta Keebler Jones Glenn Jones Oregon keebler Josh cluff Josh Ryan Harrison Lavoix Finchem Finnigan Bundy Ville federal government Bundy ranch Tiffany cluff Utah Keebler Josh cluff Nevada Bill Keebler
Leah Sottile on Bundyville and American Radicalism

The Lawfare Podcast

1:09:33 hr | 1 year ago

Leah Sottile on Bundyville and American Radicalism

"Cliven grazing his caroline publicly and for a long time but he had paid his bills at twenty a years so basically two thousand fourteen the government says all right we're gonNA come take the cows payment Repossession well cliven takes to the as far as to quotas projectiles with rat poison in the hopes the shrapnel would cause uncontrolled bleeding in its victims an exit the building and obviously pretty dramatic introduction and intersection between the subject of American extremism and your own life Zona Nevada Oregon I mean there are People Montana that come there to protect this rancher in what they see as a show of tyrannical which does a deep dive on America's far right militia movement together they discuss these groups origins and ideologies and what they can teach us about homegrown radicalization at his rally in Minneapolis earlier this week president trump received voluntary security from an unexpected source the oath keepers a far right militia ended a backpack bomb on the parade route near Metro Bench in a brick wall across the street from my favorite bookstore city workers saw that associated with the white supremacy movement nor is this the first time that the trump administration has crossed paths with such groups which become more active in recent years by people that were heavily armed I'm Jacob Schultz and this is the law fair podcast October Twelfth Two Thousand Nineteen we need your help sort of miraculous event where people show up from all over the country I mean I'm talking New Hampshire errors so this is pretty horrible attempted attack took place just outside your front door real I think you mentioned later in the episode that please tip kind of cut off your your entrance read the march was planned to go right through the center of the city a man named Kevin Harper a white supremacist from Stevens County Washington plan packed with fishing weights coated in rat poison and human feces this is going to take out windows it's potentially going to damage cars anybody who's a pedestrian in in modern day America it's the law fair podcast episode four sixty Leah's Sicily on Bundy Ville and American radicalism to learn more about these groups l'affaire senior editor Scott are Anderson recently sat down with journalists Leah's Tilly who's the host of the podcast Bundy Ville backpack in called it in it was filled with wires and it smelled awful Kennedy and of course we now know that Kevin Harper left is bombed here at main in Washington he intended in the immediate vicinity is probably going to be injured and maybe even killed in the days fishing weights would have torn through the marchers like giant shotgun blast harp amid gun Cillian. Let's start our conversation where I think your intersection with this sort of issue instead of issues started and that's within man name forced the government so what ended up happening is that the bureau and management agents there the into the cows found themselves surrounded on all sides Stevens County man has been arrested in connection with a bomb placed in downtown spokane on Martin Luther King Junior Day it was a cold winter morning the day of the Martin Luther King Junior tell us a little bit about what we know about Kevin Harper and the path that led him to this intersection with your life as a journalist in spokane at the time not working police issues sure yeah what's known about Kevin Hart Bone is a lot of what's been reported by predominantly by spokane media the spokesman Review in Kevin Harper. Let me play clip here for you from episode seven of season two Bundy bill breaking news from ally for the FBI confirms a US a black powder explosion to spray all those people in that parade with a rain of these lead fishing weights inside was a six inch long pipe bomb you in particular but what they found was that Kevin Harper them with someone who had been interested in white supremacist ideologies and in in a lot of the things that fuel the white supremacist movement he was also a guy that not a lot of people knew he didn't have a lot of friends he lived in a rural area kind of what we hear a lot about a lot of mass shooters and and things that you know oh he was such a nice guy or he was you know someone and I I knew who he was but I I don't know that I ever talked to him that sort of thing so when everything started to come out it started to look like this was Ah ah bombing that was motivated by the White Supremacist ideology that he believed and and in court that came out to these were he was motivated of a very rural county in northeastern Washington and He was well liked by the people who did know him so so a lot of what was known about Harper was do bomb that parade because of what he believed about people of Color so that yeah that intersected in my own life and that I woke up one day and wasn't able to go out the front door of my apartment building and I worked weirdly I sorta existed on this one city block in order in arts reporter primarily I'd gone to school for Journalism it sort of had a passion for you know punk music and heavy metal and that's what I wrote about it ax we see recently and a big part of that story is one of radicalization of this socialization of individuals into the so you now of several years after the two thousand eleven incident have produced this podcast that does this incredible deep dive into bridge was this was something that had been going on in that area for a really long time and I always knew about it but the sense that you get when you live in that area then spliced paused and dissected by people who never knew him seconds later he dropped the sort of ecology of social institutions and movements in ideology that is motivating a lot of these sorts of incidents not take place and you spend a lot of time really both in both seasons of Bonneville but particularly with this new focus in the second season talking about one of the main figure again they come across like an unfinished sentence are they the start to a threat promise I always think I'll hear some at the time so so I watched as the other reporters in my newsroom worked on this story and and it was a big deal when I learned by sort of our own maybe standard set of some successes a number of disappointments in an adult life and then goes to have this really exceptional ending to his life and then uh-huh Spokane Washington where I lived across the street from the newspaper that I worked at I worked at the the inland or the alternative weekly there and I was a music describe finicky him as a martyr made at the speed of the Internet he goes from this background of pretty standard history somebody with a pretty I in this process of indoctrination and that is someone named La Voie Finnigan let me play another clip for you from episode three for a long time with it went away when the area nations went away I think harping bombing as evidence that it didn't go away and that it's still stills air I've seen Voi- finchem die and die and die I can log onto youtube right now and watch even more exceptional afterlife that plays into this broader system of again ideologies that are moving was behavior let's thank dead kill back it up played again his words sound like a nervous mantra started because he was just so mild mannered and so so so easy to talk to reporters were having these great long interviews stronger than spirit death on repeat took finicky is known for now later in this episode you'd Geology that leads to a war certainly too many of us seem pretty extreme violent horrible behavior but there are also other types of radicalization other types of indoctrination new intonation some missed revelation but finicky I'm always dies the same three POPs doesn't jump or Yelp just crumble season two Bundy Ville were you talk a little bit about Lavoix and the role that he has come to play in the lot of these right wing movements the ground and as the top see shows from the corner he was shot three times want those people to have again and again watched his pickup crash. The driver's door fly open so so what I did with this season of Bonneville was I wanted to get like a definitive life story of WHO Finna come was he's an interesting guy I mean immediately I I was interested in who he was and what his story was when he was at the refuge which is really when the story caught my interest doing these press conferences every day where telling people what the heck is going on and why they're even there in the first place and Finicky is often they're speaking to reporters and the first time you sort of comes onto the scene is during the twenty sixteen occupation of the Malaya National Wildlife Refuge when Ammon Bundy and his the Ryen Bundy led an armed occupation of federal property there in South Eastern Oregon Vinnicombe shows up and pretty quickly the Bundy's the refuge and he he first became involved with the Patriot movement apparently during the Bundy ranch standoff in twenty fourteen start with the man himself gives a little background about Lavoix Finna come and his life before he began himself down on this path that ended in his death in two thousand six he lived all over the West he was married several times he had a bunch of kids twelve total and then he became a foster parent in Philly Com hops out as a yells to the police. You're going to have to shoot me then three Bullets Bang Bang on the Navajo reservation and he always wanted to be a cowboy and he couldn't quite make that dream of being cowboy work also body tencent alive one second have you sack of bone strapped to the ground for eternity the next puppet without a hand gravity mild mannered decent rancher who raised a lot of foster kids so soon he was sort of an outlier I think for this movement in that he it's with him and kind of these philosophical conversations so Finnigan is actually one of the only ranchers that showed up to this you know quote unquote ranchers protested real down into why the heck he got involved in this in the first place so you mentioned two things that I wanted flesh out here for our listeners has really everything I repent started in like twenty fourteen and and that was only the last two years of his life and so I wanted to know damn sure so we're gonNA come Robert Voy Finnigan is his full name. He was a rancher from air northern Arizona in the end for the movement and even in the season one when I sat down with Cliven Bundy and his son Ryan Bundy they talked about how lavoix really was it wasn't in a militia and he hadn't been rallying against the government for a long time like Cliven Bundy ad he was just this sort of perfect person often violent and bloody wave one of those in particular is nineteen ninety-two Ruby Ridge standoff in in northern Idaho where a man and his family were living really remote area of Idaho and he failed to show up to court in so US marshals came out to bring him to court and what ensued wrong ideas about the government and there have been multiple in big instances in the Patriot movement history where they clashed very publicly with the government and it's about ninety miles away from Las Vegas a rural area but not the most rural area that you can go to in the West but it's weird cliven bundy his lived the perfect spokesman for their movement because he was so likable by people on every part of the spectrum so like you say like you you played in that clip you know I was this long standoff that resulted in many people dying both members of the Weaver family and in particular one was a child when he arrived on the scene of the Patriot movement as I like to say in two thousand sixteen he was known around North Northern Arizona as this thousand fourteen incident and Bunkerville that got involved in this Patriot movement gives us more back a little bit of short background on that and then Lee eld and also us marshals so that's a moment in time I think that really exemplifies a lot of what the Patriot movement believes that that it's it's people who oftentimes are in militias there maybe against paying their taxes they have pretty strong leading up to levels involvement what was he stepping into when he showed up in two thousand fourteen okay so I the Patriot movement has been around a really long time another big kind of re Ridge esque events play out in Bunkerville Nevada that's down in the you know very southern part of me that you oftentimes have to take out a grazing permit with federal agency in his case Bureau of Land Management and basically you know there are public lands of twenty years he has not paid his bills to the federal government so when you ranch in the West or around the United States unceasing mammoth so sort of miraculous event where people show up from all over the country I mean I'm talking New Hampshire sonal Nevada Oregon I mean there are People Montana that come there to protect this rancher in what they see as a show of tyrannical much of his life and he is a cattle rancher there and he's one of the last if not be less cattle rancher in Clark County Nevada and for the things happen during that event in which one of cliven sons with he's by bureau land-management officer and there were dogs that were I'm not familiar with them one of those is the Patriot movement itself and then you mentioned the Bundy's a number of time cliven Bundy on a number of other Bundy's and the role they played in the Tudor media starts going to militias and saying they're coming to get me they're coming to take my cows they're coming to kill my family and we need your help in in over the country that Americans can use to recreate or you know do all kinds of things on but one of those uses is ranching and in order to do that you have to the government is so oppressive and tyrannical that will come after people who wanna live their own way so in in twenty fourteen we saw who he was in the previous fifty some odd years so what turns out to be is that he was a rural guy grew up in a in a Mormon family arrange to you know charge people money to use public lands that the public land doesn't even exist and the federal government has no business telling people cows as payment you know like a repossession and so they planned this big round up well cliven takes to the right wing media you know Internet at federal officials and got away with it and You know I think had that not happened then in twenty sixteen cliven Bundy I people were that were heavily armed and they sit down and that was seen as a real victory for the Patriot movement on there was some other the two sons eminent Ryan would not have traveled to Oregon to take over a federal wildlife refuge there now the twenty twenty sixteen event is have a grazing permit where the government says yeah this is public land but you are allowed to graze your cows here so cliven has grazing his cow them publicly Nevada what to do so like I said it was seen as a real victory for the Patriot movement and was seen as a time when the American citizens pointed guns and for you know for a long time but he had paid his bills in twenty years so basically in two thousand fourteen the government says all right we're GONNA come runoff crops and things like that to be able to replant this fire in particular got out of control and it was also suspected they were actually poaching so the Bundy's took over the refuge sort of in this show force that they thought that that was another example of Taran ICAL government controlling people government would be aggressor coming at them and so they were just defending themselves but that whole event was grounded in this idea that the federal government just doesn't have inching duo went to jail for less than five years were released and then on appeal they were hauled back to jail dear own eagerly so this these ranchers were called to jail they were given a mandatory minimum sentence of five years but the as of two ranchers in Oregon in that area that had land bordering the refuge that were they were convicted of setting four of the government so what ended up happening is that the bureau land management agents there that into get the cows found themselves surrounded on all sides idiological perspective that the Bundy's and presumably many of those who join them in two thousand fourteen share this criticism of the federal government's ownership ah handed back to the people of Harney County which is the county that was in but it also coincided with this pretty dramatic case the fire on federal land basically you know people used fire in the West to control it it helps prevent wildfires they burn and sort of you know nipping at the crowd a woman was knocked to the ground and the and the Bundy's continued today to show that that is the the judge in the case said that just seems egregious and I think he said it would shock the conscience that that's what they should serve these men the father and son I know that that refuge was even there it's a bird refuge and you know you see a lot of older people you know in kind of like outdoor it's a really it's not a book it's like a packet of papers but it it shows How cliven Bundy his neighbor another another LDS command named Keith who has since passed they basically got together all the time to talk about Mormon scripture and what they did is they assembled all of land their ability to even own land legally under the constitution or under with other system of natural natural law you think applies what other aspects of idiot algae the Bundy's bringing to the table though because there's not just a secular kind of constitutional critique there's also a religious aspect of this there is yeah so one razzie clothing and binoculars that go there to look at birds and enjoy the outdoors they came there and sees that property and said we're not leaving until is about the federal government not being able to own land and you know they treat the constitution as if it's a holy taxed the bunnies are also very religious thing because I mean I've talked to LDS scholars all over the country and they said this is this is bizarre this is not what the perch agrees times and that at some point they would be forced to do basically the constitution would be hanging by a thread and their words and they would they would awesome these ideas and it turns out there was so it's easier on a bunny though we talk a bit about this document that was given to me call the name Book Elliot's Church thinks of that as kind of this urban legend but with the Bundys you saw people not only not thinking urban legend but doubling down on it and actually India you know Internet media starts going to militias insane? They're coming to get me they're coming to take my cows they're coming to kill my family different in what they did there is that they went into the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge which is you know I lived in Oregon almost my entire life at that point and I did the pieces of scripture that they thought affirm their belief that the LDS people would be the final protectors of the constitution and the of Bundy what was really interesting exercise I mean they both were but not one I wanted to know why Cliven Bundy got these ideas and I actually got a statement from the Mormon Church thing this is not what we condone and it's based on a prophecy and I say that with quotes around it bull there Mormons or LDS and I wanted to know if there was just some part of their ideology their religious ideology that led to it so to do these things we since releasing Bonneville season one what I've found out from a lot of people that that that prophecy the so called prophecy which is called the White House Eh that the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith Maybe said that the Mormon people would be the final protectors of the constitution but most of be the ones that would be forced to protect it and they would be saved because of that so certain sort of blew my mind a little bit that this sort of salvation narrative was tied up with the United States document so I actually went to Bunny ranch and I talk to them about the book and and without was and it was it was interesting so that's kind of the buddy story in a nutshell with that season one of the show with her so you mentioned this I prophesy is more believed in around the American West and a lot of people would like to let on so so the Bundy's in that regard you know they they made this book and distributed this Packet Disney book Pakistan and kind of went lean hard obviously into that beliefs while so so Lavoix keenum shows up in two thousand fourteen in this situation up until this point is you know in the podcast you know he management was up on his payments unlike the Bundy's what happens after two thousand fourteen how does it change at trajectory of Adam's life yeah I mean afterwards you know I was able to get a bunch of letters through foia requests that he had written to the the Om Office there in his area he was in good standing with him he paid all bills on time you know he'd have long conversations with these guys that were land managers out there but she had had faced a lot of setbacks seemed to be kind of as close as the gotten to this dream of being a rancher and Family Mana wife several kids foster children what are you talking about what what why and he just felt that he had to stand up against the government in this sort of image the cliven Bundy had like he was actually trying to plan some sort of violent confrontation with the government as well and that's the part that I think that his family doesn't like to hear people talk about I had this youtube channel where he would talk a lot about it a lot but behind the scenes through other court documents that I found it's widow and so he was sort of planning this violent interaction with the planning that they would that they were gonna come in and take his cattle had been heard through his life but what he saw there I think he was so invigorated by it and saw that maybe there was a real show of force that rural people could have and season two that he wanted to be like the guy in front of the tank Tiananmen Square and that you know if he died the cause would be the poor ranchers he left bunny ranch and really drastically changed his behavior and and his interactions with the federal government so before he went he said you know I just have to take a stand and I'm not gonna I'm not GonNa pay my bills anymore basically and there was this real kind of back and forth that was interesting had was the least actively ranching shirts not always easy you know had had occurred normal life on top which had a normal relationship with groups like the Bureau of land and The you know the they have not been happy with Bundy Ville about because the supposedly he was saying to Bill Keebler militiamen that we talk about when Finnigan showed up in two thousand fourteen in heard these ideas about the government being you know this big bad guy it was not the first time he heard that that was something that that Lundy so so I think he was living under this sort of luge in that that that if he died or if he did something with lead you know but by the time he died he really hit only wrapped up a little over a thousand dollars in grazing fees and it took the government twenty years to come get clients I think that Finicky I'm showed up there and found a lot of like minded people who maybe there's been hearing a lot of the same things about the government that he had through his life I mean showed that he did and finicky was really public about that all of a sudden he was gonNA stop paying his bills and stand with other ranchers some progress but it's it's pretty unclear what that world would look like I guess if he was successful so Vinnicombe faces this dramatic and saying that we heard described in the clip we played just a few minutes ago and it's one that's particularly dramatic because it's this kind of impromptu confrontation where they departed the reserve briefly They had this confrontation other people in the vehicle ended up surrendering vinnicombe is vocally a little more resisting and it's been hot on media from all directions there is not only video from the outside there's also you know people inside the car with him recording you can hear some of them in the clip we in reply from one thousand perspectives over and over again on social media on the Internet and at least two Finnigan becoming this something more than just a man to having this pretty exceptional afterlife facilitated in part by his surviving wife and others describe for us a little bit what his legacy has been what we played a sang has did they shoot them did they shoot him and all of this media does create this effect that you described so well of being able to see this death radio of his shooting of his shooting death because you know immediately after it happened I think that the FBI and the government had to get in front of what they figured would be you know conspiracies about it and so they released this footage aerial footage that was taken by a drone that was at least not came out really quickly well then almost just as quickly came out the cell phone video from inside the car where you hear you know the people in the car over the traffic stop and followed incomes truck as he drove away from police and it didn't have any audio and things like that and and they the sound of the window shattering and tear gas being blown and that kind of thing so rounds out the story a little bit more and role has come to play in this bronx towards a broader movements Sherri yeah any something really exceptional like you say about about this becomes the smarter for this movement in a way that you know the Waco standoff in the mid nineties that that people saw the video that was meant to sort of like conspiracy theories just led to wild conspiracy theories in the end so in in the end finish calm but all of a sudden he's fleeing away from a traffic stop he's jumping out of a car saying you're GonNa have to shoot me and he gets it like way totally different things they take away that here's this man who's scared he's saying I'm GonNa go talk to the sheriff in the next county over who happened you speak with law enforcement he agreed with that he wouldn't have carried a gun inside of his jacket pocket that he that he was simply slipping and so now you know Vinnicombe that name here here's this man who ranch in the middle of nowhere who it was known by almost no one has I see it a million different ways so you know one way that people see it is that here's this man who was involved in a prolonged become so well known throughout the world because of his videos and now his cattle brand I mean you can see it everywhere people have attached I wanNA say necessarily manufacturing packaging elements of his legacy and kind of using that communicating that to certain audiences you sat down to be a constitutional sheriff who believes many if not all of the same things that informed the refuge stand up and that he was simply fleeing to right and killed while reaching inside his jacket so people see it one way as justify police shooting on the other hand you have people who see that very same video you know be really scared about what's happening and sort of talking about what they can do they can call in and you know and then after Finnegan shot and I think that being able to splice those two videos together and show it from inside the car and outside the car it ended up being that people's chewed on their bodies their bumper stickers and t shirts and hats and you know songs that have been written about him in in the in the name of Oy is is something that is seen as like almost like a holy like Jesus like figure and that has become very pack powerful well I think in recruiting new people to move men now part of that was organic you can see that with the social media environment that we free event that was in Oregon capital Salem where people were gathering to to sort of honor and remember La Voie and talk about his we have you're getting these very dramatic clubs dramatic developments but part of it wasn't organic part of it was a conscious effort by people to who are kind of what that the the US that people have made of his legacy and and what rules continue to play as a tool or as a product that certain people are died who get you know anniversary commemorations of their debt and such a big way so really I wanted to go and just hear what was being talked about there in this sort of perfect character for people to say look at this rural man who was just trying to stand up for his rights and and that's what he's been common arm standoff with other people who believe that the government is oppressive people who are very well armed and rippled through the crowd that was there it was all stuff that everyone already knew but it was like they wanted to keep remembering it and talking about it search and he said yeah it is church like there are songs and things you know when you when people repeat the same thing over and over that they know already and stumbling and the deep snow they don't seem to have much of an explanation for why he was saying you're going to have to shooting but the but the this is just to say that the very specific end cap of his life that we've discussed today and didn't give a whole lot more information would've watches is that information uh-huh disseminating sure yeah so in in we've it's episode three of season to go to this three year anniversary into the movement so but also you know it was interesting to see the types of people that were there you know they were predominantly white predominantly older folks but the and watch US shooting video that they've seen thousands of times if feels like a group of people who just want to remember that moment smarter and you you hear people talk all the time within this movement about the fear of Muslims and and down for Bundy Chelsea's in to and listen to one of these shows led by believe Mister Phantoms wife can you give us a little sense of suicide bombers and and martyring themselves and it starts to feel release similar in regards to Lavoix so so yeah that's so this this image of Vinnicombe is sort of wrapped up in a religious liberty and an Americanism that felt very specific to me that they all became I guess radicalized in a way maybe they were on the fence and then they saw this shooting video and pushed them over hissy and you know what brought me there was sort of this this these two very disparate images of his death but also you know I don't know a lot of people who have very very specifically Christian and very specifically white and that's really who genetic com- has shown this video to I asked for a copy of the video martyr and what are people willing to do for a martyr I mean right like we see people doing a lot of things for a murder you know Jesus way to understand the the rest of those fifty years of his life than going and watching this video would I found that is that her videos really only played to this in the past few years some people have started to call this region the American readout a readout is kind of military fortification and encouraging libertarians improper from around the country to make a home here they're even readout realtors will sell you a house complete with a bomb and as I was sitting there I looked at my producer Ryan half who come my reporting partner in this whole thing just because it's such a gigantic story and I was like this is like this Idaho it actually couldn't be less in line with that image deeply conservative area the West tot and dry in the summer coldest hell in the winter cler areas that's a road show is different parts of the West but you really pick one part of the country kind of focus on as perhaps emblematic of whatever Oh and was not able to get any I couldn't purchase one or anything like that that may have changed at this point but she chooses pretty specifically who shelter so this episode is about Stevens County but it's also about this region as a whole and you can't talk about the violent history of Stevens County without so you kind of introduced Stevens County to the Bundy variance you might think of the northwestern U. S. is all rain showers and mountain what the government did there and and the people there who died were seen as martyrs or what happened at Ruby Ridge those people were seen as martyrs so it's just so finicky author preacher and had a church called the Church of Jesus Christ Christian which practiced Christian identity which is an ideology that believes that Jews are the passages given to not kind of just letting me on this you know trip of your season two of trying to figure out like who else is sees a little boy as Kevin Racism and and sort of racist cloak I think that always hanging over the North West so uh early nineties Richard Butler and his friends would host these big Nazi parades in Quarterlane Idaho in this kind of cute little resort Stevens County at all and it was Situated there in the late seventies by a man named Richard Butler Butler was a white supremacist and he happening in a broader region in different pockets around particularly the American West early the party United States as well and that Stevens County Washington let's listen to a brief clip here we what what light he was being painted in so so genetic him his wife has made these movies about his life and I figured you know what better I understanding the Aryan nations so you mentioned area nations once before the important role they play a particularly in created this kind of home base for white supremacists around the country at the Aryan nations compound and North Idaho and he also fashioned hymns these records coffee shops and we'd stores on every corner right but this part of the North West I'm about to tell you about eastern Washington East sides of the state are very rural very conservative and Stevens County and all this stuff is very it's so much closer to Idaho the big huge counties that are really close to Idaho where they've been known for a long time as places that people don't want to be those that there are people there who just don't want to be bothered and Stephen County is absolutely one of those places so we get into Stephen Counties Pacific in eastern Washington so so it's sometimes I think hard for people to understand that there's in Oregon and Washington in particular you have these very John of even Satan and you know Christian identity takes on a lot of different forms but it's something that really appealed to a lot of so we've got a few different kind of movements interacting at this point we have the Patriot movement associated with the Bundys we have the area that if Lavar the martyr that we uncovered was a you mentioned that you know these videos are being brought to particular communities and in there and we talk about how genetic com- brings her video about about her husband to this secretive closed religion actions which was in a particularly promising eighties nineties then we have you know interactions with both religious identities and ones that are more anti gun Weizman sisters history of an appealing to white supremacists so area nations was there for a long time you know up until the eighties and into the Oh to where the nation's was than than any of that progressiveness of the West Side so even county ponder Ray County Ferry County these are all the around cities who want to get out of society can go and really be left alone I think that's one thing that anybody who spent time in the rural west this compound in Stevens County that has led by people who were foundational framers of some Christian identities most important ideas people who are really suspicious about the government so you know like I said earlier you you'll find like militias and sovereign citizens and tax protesters and blue democratic progressive cities that are on the western side of the state in the middle of the state you have these gigantic mountains and the in the upper northwest and this evolution of Stevens County and related Patriot movement related movements there give us some background that what on and people would come out in droves to protest it and and it was sort of this you know very very public clash of these ideas and free speech white supremacist but in need movement they often well come white supremacists in their ranks which I think is is suspicious point for a variety of circumstance getting to until the podcast the nation's shuts down and he loses the property and it's bulldoze but when that happened moment how do they interact with their relationship and how do they have this kind of mix of these strains in Stevens county are they're made rural county there's a history of these Christian identity churches being there these churches that believe you know an anti Semitic ideology and there have been really violent white supremacy that have come from those places particularly Kevin Harper who he talked about it at the top of the show so so that's kind of Hawaii we get into the area and those who aren't perhaps white and Christian who lived there yeah I think people of Color and Stephen County you know have sometimes you know you mentioned that during the twenty sixteen maller event that people started referring to the occupiers of the reserves so like for example during the two thousand sixteen occupation the wildlife refuge the Bundy's were called you know racist and things like that and they and they were I think a lot of people in the United States particularly those at eastern urban areas don't encounter these groups already allergies very often are dismissive nations and use that as a way to talk about you know this history in this area that that has led to you know these sort of racist ideas persistent as y'all Qaeda or Vanilla Isis terms obviously kind of being a little bit derogatory and nuncius towards them but it can be more serious than that can you are excited about those ideas and I think they just kind of fanned out or they just went home to where the where they always were and one of those nearby county same thing that there's people with racist ideas there are people who are just you know don't want the government to own land or don't WanNA pay their taxes is there in nation and how did it impact the trajectory of Stevens County yeah so the nation was located in northern Idaho so actually not in you know I I think a lot of people thought well the Nazis are gone they're going to move somewhere else but that really wasn't the case there are a lot of people in the area that were glee be has not because it's where the Indian nations was but it's because there were you know huge sparsely populated like we're you know we're not racist but within their ranks of the people leading occupations were white supremacist so so I think in Stevens County it's sort of the there and maybe we should question that instead of make fun of it or on say well you know if you talk about the area nations or you talk about Christian identity the vote he would not even considered serious candidates so so I think that's just to show that there are people who are willing to come to the sides of the people in this movement describe for us a little bit what the presence of these sorts of groups both theory nations and case kind of successor groups has meant for people in Stevens County is part of the country particularly you you're just giving those people more attention to perhaps helping them do their recruiting I think that that's that's the case but you know I think it's important also to add that data you know the Bundy's are huge name and Ryan Bundy ran for a winner last year only got you know he got a smaller intermingling and uniting I guess in these instances like we've seen with the bundies and the the standoffs that they lead you see a lot of people with different ideas in and fight for them but they're not they're not a gigantic group well you know in spite of the fact that that these aren't necessarily Donald people who are sort of you know prep or survivalists and that's not to say everyone that considers themselves up you know quote unquote member of the Patriot movement is the in the West and in Stevens County these are not prominent ideologies we could see that as evidence maybe a little relief in that what we talked about in Bunny Ville season to just that were like hey this stuff has been there and it still it's kind of agreeing on the principle you know nugget that that rose those so I think that's the case in Stephen County I think it's a case in a lot of counties in the West branches differences or is there kind of cross fertilization that tends to have I think you don't have one of those relic arms captures a lot of I am but a lot of people contacted after bunny bill and see them one saying Yeah I learned that and I also learned that we weren't supposed to talk about it so that was that was interesting theologies they are ones that have pretty prominent spokespeople and that includes some people in the United States government one you spend affirmative time on I think we have to talk about is representative Brad Former Representative Matt Shea from Washington State legislature let me play the clip where you kind of they are the population centers and they dominate politics and they dominate you know the way laws go and there is a very real thing both believed the feds are setting up concentration camps to imprison Americans representative good to have you on with us thank you for having me conspiracy theories thing in doing things that might ruin other politicians like back in two thousand nine he talked with conspiracy King Alex Jones on infowars about how the which is almost impossible to do and he even said that it's not a new idea I'm not the first person to have this idea but I think he's probably the person who's the most series contest us that leaked a few years ago called the biblical basis for war can you describe for these kind of two separate ideas how they relate to each other and how they so as a minimum they're all at the same rally he talked about the government collapsing like it was an opportunity chance to get stuff done we now representative Shea is associated with a couple of pretty out their ideas but that has to make our own state like let's take our ball and go home and so he he talks about this idea it's not a new idea in fact I talked to that Shea to prepare for the inevitable collapse it's going to happen and yes I said that as a politician here onstage it's GonNa Happen we in Washington with this idea of the State of Liberty it it's this idea to create a fifty first state where eastern Washington would be severed off Krizan Americans he says you need to prepare for the apocalypse so last year this document is leaked to the media by a former security staffer have the obviously the constituency that he keeps coming back Stevens County for that appeals to him or that he appeals to one of them is this idea of the vet the question is and I think the question should be for all of us what are we gonNa do afterwards what are we going to do with that opportunity what are we going to do to prepare ourselves for that time the new State of liberty during the American redoubt into potentially a separate state kind of focused on autonomy and another one arguably relates to a documentary into its own place in part of that gets to this idea talking to earlier about you know that that Seattle in Washington and Portland Oregon it's about it and You know he he wants to shave also a politician who spent very little time in Spokane Valley he went in in in in Washington where people in rural areas feel like their vote just doesn't matter and so what she is doing kind of capitalizing on that idea and saying well then always been a part of Shay's public persona when Alex Jones teed up the FEMA camps story matches took a swing well I I I am aware of what you're talking to does that he's supposedly wrote down from a sermon and it advocates for a certain way of life than continues you know if things that aren't repealed until people and the crazy part is like that kind of thing leaks to the media based on the Bible that is based in Christianity those based on the Old Testament to be honest and if people don't comply with the Oh can where I used to live nearby borders Idaho and You spend all this time like say kind of campaigning around occurred so I think like you see these ideas intermingling in that people start seeing this state of liberty idea as less of a like appeal fit into what appears to be Matt Save kind of Political Ideology Yeah so matt she is from Spokane Valley which is a city actually separate and to the twenty fourteen bundy ranch standoff in Nevada he went to the twenty sixteen occupational wildlife refuge he talks about these FEMA camps being built too I suppose the new society based on these principles you know quote kill all males it's you know same sex marriage candles that none of which have quite led however to his defeat electorally so far in two thousand fourteen you guys describe he was overheard by your waitress discussing Dale religious institutions were non-christian groups and other organizations that my you know don't seem to fit with his ideology and the other sort of extreme broadcast with this group called team rugged which is actually training kind of young adolescent men in the use of firearms and the use of other sore to rural voters have boys and more like match trying to set up a biblically governed state that where you know marijuana's illegal and text messages were leak that Shea was involved with where he and other right wing figures prominent re doubters the FEMA camps which vary in most particularly disturbing about that is that they're going to be on former military bases a ton of people have expressed their concerns that what they're really building plans with the oath keepers and militia group actually called them in because she thought they were terrorist group planning a terrorist attack he is very has been linked to plans to Sir we're talking about committing violence against liberal protesters and in that match offer to background those people this was this sort of plan for for this new society he hopes to lead an so represented shays kind of gotten caught up in a few actors political future. No I don't think there is what is going on with Matt Shea is that he is under investigation for one of the same sex marriages illegal and women have fewer rights and all kinds of things so so that you know when biblical basis for war came out that's how it was interpreted and most politicians I think would say like I have nothing to do with that I don't know what that is but shave like doubled down and was like yeah I did write that down but it was it was the sermon there's been a lot of stories come out about Shea and I think in one regard it's made people in Washington state more aware that he's there but in his involved with this this group and even county called Marble Community Fellowship disclosed religious community that we talk about in the podcast and in camps I think you're just here he is on stage militia rally in twenty thirteen if you do not have five thousand rounds of two to three five thousand rounds of twenty two in one thousand rounds of Han go man it's of military tactics implicitly in preparation of wraps experts in preparation for some sort of action or some sort of moving in the future can you discover these boys are training in the art of Biblical War is what they say and they're being led by the pastor of that fellowship and it's at that that religious community that this group team rugged which you know a lot of teenage maybe like lower twenty so he's under investigation right now to see to look more into the story I guess those text messages so but yeah he's also so there are people who who believe in what he believes and I I don't know that they've been deterred by any of these scandals of course metro no he has a fundraiser with like way more people than maybe would have been there before any of this happened so it's really hard to say what is going to happen with shame the district I think it's caused him to maybe even more support because they see these things and see and they don't like the media and actions must reasonably he's Kinda come under some more heat in relation to this biblical basis for war on because of other interactions you had which also I think play recording of in the whether he will ousted I don't think that anybody should put much stock in that he's been voted in for six consecutive terms the Senate confirmation of Grove land-management someone who's publicly argued the federal government should be able to legally hold land and they is proceeding with a plan to reassign some isn't the only politician whose rhetoric and ideas and he algae lease Intersex or has a relationship with some of these other ideas you know that there are at least Emmons the two people who suspect starting the fire that led to the mailer occupation ultimately William Penn lay his acting director I mean not soon the old strange perverse things to say he continues to maintain a lot of support from Christians and I think that that that definitely thing like between eighty and ninety percent of the Bureau of land management staff from Washington DC to the American West what is the relationship between perhaps more mainstream relationship between the two beyond just you know common touch points of criticism of the federal government. Yeah I think you know one thing that I I noticed vigilence against the Liberals and preparing for this sort of end I guess is it so so that you know as Bunny Ville came in Jason Wilson from the Guardian has been reporting it's Chad socal the spokesman review has been reporting Daniel Walters at the inland are you scandals that that you actually you didn't mention but it is one of the game the dozens of scandals I guess they're not shaved careers becoming defined by so a bunch of right wing domestic terrorism really poses for law enforcement particularly for federal law enforcement on the one side These radiology is premised the the spectrum of you know there's not there are ties between the trump administration and the Bundy's and some other movements in small ways the president trump of course part in the Gotcha in a in a video saying wow you guys are awesome and stuff so sort of like this whole world around shave this biblical basis for war and this what is the current state of match what is what is he dealing with in Washington state is there finally sort of critical mass raising these concerns that may impact his it's called the biblical basis for war and he it's you're just laughing because wacky I mean it's this outline of ideas doc felt very very much in line with this kind of Old Testament old world ideas that you hear in sort of the on the idea of an impressive federal government an aggressive law enforcement tactics you know swat raids undercover missions and things that may look like an J. and B. horrified at the idea of people being killed but the end of the day they're going to they're going to support a Christian and that that's Ll's touch points with some of president trump's rhetoric and some of the ideas appeal to are brought up in this broader narrative that shake kind of represents at least one out of of what they see you know I also thought it was interesting a few weeks ago when president trump was saying in speech and you know it feels like every day these movements and these acts as a matter of public policy it's an interesting question I mean I think we talk that at the end of of this this latest season the only plays into the Bundy story into the Bunny Ville story that there there are a lot of people who may look at these things about Max pursuing to trap them in a lot of those ideologies are inherently victimhood ideologies a belief that certain parts of the population in many last few years of these trends that might inform how federal law enforcement or really any law enforcement our the United States government should approach the how you know domestic terrorism is something a lot of people aren't even sure exists they hear that term and they're not quite sure what it means in federal interest in getting what is often described as left of boom at taking preventive law enforcement action that can prevent acts of terrorism like the one that you experienced in light of this string of horrible shootings and other domestic terrorist attack that were continuing to wrestle with is the challenge that areas that are predominantly under their control at least sympathetic to them what kind of lessons have you pulled away from being a very close observer of these and yet they're not seeming to take you know law enforcement doesn't seem to tecoma seriously you know in Portland where I live Kevin Buying into these ideologies maybe not taking the steps that one would hope they would take to counteract vertically wear these groups have these geographic a million days I can't remember what the story was but he said I am the chosen one you know in a speech and it was talking like he's like the king homegrown it's it's American it's White Christian and and and I think that that's something that you know some law enforcement is as far as terrorism in America you know a lot of cases it's these these groups or its subsidiaries of these groups you know my report UNCHRISTIAN parts of the population are being unfairly prosecute by the federal government feeding into that seems dangerous at the same time these potentially violent and there is a real interest terrorism statutes the existing things that we have in place should be used You know hate crimes can be prosecuted things of that nature entrapment feed into that narrative way they echo a lot of the strategies that the people who embrace these patriots allergies I'm say the federal government and that kind of sit

Cliven Bundy Kevin Harper Oregon Bundy Ville Stevens County Washington Stevens County spokane Leah Bundy ranch Sicily America Matt Shea Minneapolis Martin Luther King Junior Washington Montana Metro Bench Jacob Schultz president
Part Four: How To Build An Army

Behind the Bastards

59:36 min | 1 year ago

Part Four: How To Build An Army

"And we're back at the ron burgundy podcasts season two baby pressure team what we'd do. I brush my teeth. Whenever what else does on holidays and sometimes i forget. I'm not perfect smile of your breath bother you being the smell of rare steak aged whiskey. Excuse no carolina that doesn't bother me. Listen to the ron burgundy podcast on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever after you find your podcast words clear and my throat's i'm robert edmonson. This is once again behind the bastards the the podcast where yada yada bad people talk about whatnot. This is the fourth chapter of my audio book the war on everyone. It's our second day recording. I'm here with cody johnston. Katie stole clo- we are all higher than we were last time but my goodness very much true i i signed on and we were all strung out too tired and now we're a little bit high more than a little bit more than a little bit high but we're not as strong out so so i have a a considerable assortment of throwing things around me doesn't worry me at all. Cody called this hyper normalization because i can no longer longer be satisfied with just just look at this fucking bagels. Does nothing nothing for me. So i have a bag of roughly twenty twenty paper towel rolls. I have to say that right before we started. Recording robert suggested that we all get on helmets and armor and he would practices mm-hmm throwing knives and that's that's a no practice is a strong word. I just want to throw knives one episode and see if i could stick them in the soundproofing on the wall. Yeah i mean i i would argue that. We don't have to be here in front of you for that could be on my sides. Oh yeah yeah. I know you've said that you wanna throw around knives and we're like no. You can say something a little bad f- you can. I have these throw in pringles. You throw some pringles. I have have a box of around twelve little hundred calorie packs of pringles that are all in an open-topped box together. I am excited to throw that if i can kind of wing it my my theory theory 'cause it's kind of rectangle shaped is if i can wing it like a frisbee. I can get it to go straight until it hits the wall and then bursts like scatter bomb over an afghan wedding right angle it properly high enough. You could get it on the same words yeah. That's the dream that's the dream but i think it might be a little bit unreasonable. Bounce ounce out into a sharing pictures of this room so that people can get an idea of what you're talking about. We did this morning. There's danell shared a picture of the of the bagels that are stuck on the top campers. I do have a plan for those bagels and for if you remember two months ago we through the coffee mate top of the poison room so when we start our new podcast which will be named some variant of the worst year ever the worst. You've our lives we haven't we haven't quite settled here bad year for everybody bad add podcast find podcast about a pass back in january we should inaugurate the show by taking the by at that point very very very stale bagels off of the soundproofing and taking very very very bad coffee mate off of the top of the poison room and having ourselves awesome coffee made bagels gross sounds awful. Let's let's do it terrible bagels to start a terrible year. We can at least see what comes out. You know some coffee coffee cream. I mean it was expired the last time we had yeah. How much worse could it get one pump. A portion of a cream <music> curdled several several deaths <hes>. That's the joe biden soviet covering her mouth with that. Her reaction is hard to place. No she proves what other podcasts talk about before they start. We'll coach doesn't like for us to talk about too much. 'cause we always feel like we'll talk for like ten minutes soon at this point we we have we have but lake so we normally talk okay okay. We we say whatever holiday it is happy. Whatever we make a couple of jokes or whatever about and then we get started and what is your book yeah. It is my audio book and there's a version of it with none of this where it's just me reading it so i feel like they've got options yeah. They've got options so fuck. Okay yeah. Fuck fuck them assholes who donated money generously so that i do work <unk> theoretical bastards astor. Dhs that haven't actually complained but i'm imagining well what what are you doing. Sovi read the book to get to it. Okay yeah. We might be hi. It's it's possible chapter four how to build an army fun times everything you're gonna read about in this chapter or listen about hear about in this chapter. I wrote here but i said read. I don't know why maybe because i'm reading is documented history. I feel the need to emphasize that here at the beginning because the history i'm about to discuss is very much under reported. Most of this is probably not stuff. You heard about <hes> certainly not in a textbook and the question of why that is the case is a really good one <hes> because the story that i'm gonna tell in this chapter is the story the bloody vicious and exceptionally deadly insurgency that had a few things broken differently might have plunged the nation into mass violence as it was hundreds and hundreds of people were killed and the killing continues to this day way to read that last line there yeah this story of or be story of this insurgency starts as most stories of insurgencies do with a single guy now. This guy's name was louis beam same guys remember talking about louis beam a little bit in our border episode <hes> is he <hes> one of the he's one of the militiamen yup the head of border me at all those things to say k._k._k. Guy he had a lot to say a lot to say so like me. Louis beam was a texan. He was born in nineteen forty-six in lufkin texas and i had a roommate who was from lufkin once drunkenly punch out light bulbs but that's neither here. They're fun guy. Hi sam was his name to hear some time. It's that's the whole story would get drunk and he would punch lightbulbs seven feet tall so lufkin all right. Can we be mr muffin. He grew up in the america that modern conservative still longingly hearken back to his parents were working class. People and his father served in combat during world world war two that tradition inspired to enlist in the army at age nineteen he had pregnant wife at this point in every reason to avoid conflict but being sought out a baptism by fire and he got it so when beam entered the u._s. Military he was entering an organization that for the very first time was racially integrated vietnam was the first war where like black guys guys in white guys would fight in mixed units and black people were allowed to do all the jobs and yeah now. This did not sit well with him because he was a big supporter of george wallace plus. You might remember from the last share segregation. Whatever fella yeah a lot of common you know idelson heroes people that these people gravitate towards they're all connected in at least two or three ways <hes> part of the trouble putting this together it was figuring out where to stop talking about their connections with matt bracken. The guy who wrote the third series of books inspired the turner diaries also guest alex jones show right. There are a lot of these a and what point is it. Are you saying too much like taking the time time to detract from yeah yeah so louis beam joins the military levin segregation in george wallace and yeah he's frustrated <hes> by the military that he finds himself frustrated at serving alongside black people one point beam in several of his most racist comrades hang confederate flags in their barracks snacked protests test against the civil rights movement. That was the right thing to protest during the vietnam god so that's the guy beam is super psyched about vietnam hates black people being being able to drink from the same water fans yeah so bring the war by kathleen blue provides good context for the nature of racial strife among us soldiers in vietnam during the time beaming listed quote white and black soldiers face combat together. The rear echelon was intensely segregated. One black soldier described saigon s just like mississippi in beams james camp at u._t. In vietnam black and white soldiers frequently exchanged insults slights and blows beam served in the twenty fifth aviation battalion at a moment of escalating racial tensions as the language of black power our circulated between home and battlefront black soldiers created a culture of afros and black berets greeting each other with fist bumps some white soldiers in the twenty fifth purported feeling alienated or threatened because of such actions clansman serving as active duty personnel in vietnam announced plans for cross burnings and spray painted racial epithets on rear echelon buildings by nineteen seventy. The marine corps recorded more than a thousand that was an incidence of racial violence at installations both in vietnam and back home. Wow that's actually. I never heard that before that story yeah i i. I'm not surprised prized but also back in the states. There were murders in lynch's on military bases. Yeah yeah of course that were. I can't stop using the voice of like mild interest not appropriate for this yeah in nineteen sixty four four members of the united clans of america murdered. A black army reserve lieutenant colonel later in the nineteen sixties. The camp pendleton clan chapter reached two hundred members in size and carried out a campaign of shootings firebombings torture and harassment of black marines beam did not join the united clans until bill after he was discharged from service but he served in the military where racial violence was common and we're membership an extremist groups by uniformed servicemembers. Also comment was not a legal yet. You could openly only be a clansman in serving the u._s. Military at this point that changes as a result of some of the things that happened in this story good change positive chairs could good move. Maybe soldiers shouldn't have the right to join organizations that urge the enslavement of huge chunks of the populace that yeah. It's like ten percent. No it's a quarter of soldiers. It's a quarter of active dealing u._s. Soldiers known not our members have met white supremacists at some point during their time surf. That's yeah yep and it's not a quarter of them are right right experienced an it's common though is that common yeah beam was a helicopter door gunner he mandy fifty caliber machine gun on a huey and by his own recollection killed over fifty people <hes> gap so he had he had a hardcore job he saw awesome hardcore combat <hes> he expressed appreciation for quote the joys of killing your enemy but he also struggled with what would later become known as p._t._s._d. Beam and many others at the time time called it post vietnam stress syndrome because again like this is not something people really had vocabulary yeah after coming home from the war. He said this to an undercover a reporter etiquette k. k. event quote after i got home from the war. Things didn't seem like they were before. I went to vietnam. Everything seemed different. The whole climate of the nation had changed before. I went over to fight. Most most of the people seemed behind us soldiers. When i returned it seemed the majority of americans were against us against the war as a whole so he doesn't see that as a good thing kind of sees as it is like a stab in the back surgery. Yeah feels betrayed for yeah yeah. That's never happened to a soldier before who later turned into a fascist revolutionary. Louis beam came home in nineteen sixty eight. Almost immediately joined the k._k._k. He was racist certainly but the primary hatred he developed in vietnam was at a tense discussed with the left and with communism in the early nineteen seventies he was involved in a spate of terrorist crimes machine gun attack on communist party headquarters in houston the bombing of a left wing radio station no-one died in these attacks and he managed to avoid charges for either of them in nineteen seventy six. He switched to a different section of the k._k._k. The knights of the ku klux klan live by a little tyke named david duke duke yeah so do grown up as we stated in the last episode reading willis cartels western destiny paper and flirting with nazism awesome in college dressing in a s is a little bit but not the yeah i mean he he was wearing his uniform as a protest for a guy whose name might have forgotten when he marched up and down schools free speech alley. We also had an s._s. Uniform dukes knights knights of the ku klux klan became the most prominent clan group of the nineteen seventies due in large part to duke's decision to what the organization more closely with outright nazism and help organize clan border patrols to stop doc migrants racial paranoia and fear of communism led to a best surgeon clan ranks throughout the nineteen seventies. What's up cody racial paranoia and yeah yeah. This is never never happened again. Thankfully nineteen seventy five. There were an estimated sixty five hundred clansman nationwide by nineteen seventy nine that number increased ten thousand plus another seventy five thousand klan sympathizers so for a while duke seemed like a pretty good fit for someone who might manage to take on the role of being the next george lincoln rockwell. He was charismatic good at drawing media attention in nineteen seventy eight and seventy nine. He became a constant figure in american talk shows who would have him on because they thought he was funny. Any in one thousand nine seventy five we'll carta covered dukes campaign for the louisiana senate in an issue one of his weekly magazine the national spotlight carta wrote he sees the clan and not as a terrorist organization but as a political movement with ideological leadership now legitimizing and whatnot duke only one about one third of the vote that was still seen rightly as a huge improvement in the political fortunes of the fascist right gallup reported that the number of americans with favorable opinions of the clan nearly doubled from nineteen sixty five nineteen seventy five duke then represented the best hopes of mainstreamers in the late nineteen seventy s beam in a number of other other klansmen would wind up on the side of the van guards. One of these other men was bill wilkinson. A former mid-level leader in dukes clan created his own group the invisible empire in the late nineteen eighteen seventy s bill was noteworthy for his sheer willingness to make violent threats saying in an interview. I'm the only clan member who believes in having guns around. These guns aren't for shooting rabbits therefore wasting people <hes> company wonderful thing to publicly say today he part real loud very very loud. If he were saying that today he would be posting it on facebook and there would be a minion and the background and we wanna those little image messages. Maybe people eh in nineteen seventy nine wilkinson's clan protested a march by the southern christian leadership conference in decatur alabama they showed up with clubs and wound up fighting with both the marchers and the local police gunfire ensued and three people were wounded. No one was killed but that will change november nineteen eighty when wilkinson's clan marched against communist demonstrators demonstrators in greensboro north carolina now. Have you heard of greensboro north carolina yeah. It's a long story that we won't be getting into enough detail l. in this because we just have to so much cover but there's a clash between the communist in-between the clansman and the clansman opened fire killing five of the protesters and these stories of them like specifically targeting black protestors like not shooting white ones. It's it's it's it's murder <hes> they they murder five people now later investigation reveals that police least were complicit in the massacre actively directing officers away from the site of the protest or to ensure that no law enforcement was present when the clan attacked aside from an f._b._i. Agent who was embedded with the clan in attackers but did nothing to stop them from firing into the ground cool. Go f. b. i. Why would why would you do anything in that situation in one of those yeah now. None of the killers in greensboro were found guilty in a subsequent criminal trial or they argued that opening fire into the crowd often on the back of moving vehicles had been justified because of the threat to their lives posed by the communists. Yeah yeah communists your inherently dangerous. There's one thing we know about communists. I love these feelings. All these people are gravitating torn. Yeah yeah yeah. I guess legal facts do care about their feelings. I wish like it'd be cool. If like someone who embodies a lot of as things <hes> became the leader of the country that would probably well. That'd be interesting to watch interesting to why a guy and in yeah now. Let's talk about real history rather than your nonsense fantasizing. Okay just what happened not crazy theories about the future. I was just like what he's like. All right so greensboro was a huge moment for the clan and it was seen as as many within the american fascist movement is nothing less than the first shots fired in a war to take back their country from communist infiltrators. The greensboro clansmen went on to become heroes in the movement giving speaking tours. I acting as living billboards for the cause so that's cool very cool so pretty cool and this brings us back to louis being well. He was not president. Greensboro beam kept extremely busy in the late nineteen seventies in nineteen seventy-nine dang xiaoping the leader of china at the time visited the united states when he arrived in texas beam attempted to spray him with red paint in the lobby of his hotel. He was punched out by a security guard. Later variations of the story would mark it down as an assassination attempt against the chinese statesman but but the reality seems to have been much dumber than that he was just trying to cover him with paint painting red cassini anonymous. That's like cheap attempt zilog dumb. It was the seventies everything was a little more primitive except for indiana jones movies okay. That's fair yeah. Speaking of indiana jones movies. You know else's perfect art. Let oh the products and services marshalls and stuff that represent the show and unlike indiana jones it was not made with the female protagonist being initially envisioned as a fourteen year old shouldn't talk about that right well. That's all right. I hate to interrupt but real quick. I think you'll want to check in with a couple of friends of mine. Alexa good morning good morning and allow me to welcome writer writer actor and comedian chelsea handler alexa. I'm just checking in with your morning. Meditation tried this one. I am a channel for loving peaceful peaceful energy okay. I am a channel for loving peaceful energy interesting. What does that mean. No idea sound nice though it put on a coffee mug that's right checking in with chelsea. Handler and alexa is easier than it's ever been before. If you want to start your morning right it's as easy as talking it. Just try saying alexa good morning. Alexa good morning and alexa and chelsea handler will take care of the rest. Oh one more thing before we go if you one more chelsea handler and who doesn't make sure to check out her podcast life will be the death of me on iheartradio. We're back so if you just opened. An enormous bag of chips made a tremendous amount of noise yeah. It was so loud really really unprofessional so southie excited to see what i throw next speaking of professional. We're back. Oh oh yeah robert lecturing about professionalism. I'm i'm a consummate. Professional hasn't throw anything yet yeah except for those has beco- started throwing bagels and they brought me no joy now because i've just moved past that but not past throwing never moved past pass through so <hes> when we last louis beam he had tried to literally paint <hes> deng xiaoping red and gotten the shit punched out of him by a security guard that that will be the most emotionally satisfying beat of this story. The rest is just frustrated. Okay so right around the same time he was attacking in japan ping with paint. <hes> louis beam began to operate a paramilitary training camp in oklahoma. I call camp. Polar white supremacists would gather there to train in combined arms arms techniques and prepare for it to fight a civil war against communist blacks and jews attendees with military experience. We're encouraged to wear their medals and insignia over there clan fatigues so i found an interesting article from u._p._i. <hes> in november of nineteen eighty that covered this camp and little kerfuffle it ran into legally when it kind of <hes> brought a bunch of boy scouts over quote a ku klux klansmen who says he is prepared to do battle against communists and homosexuals instructs explorer scouts and civil civil air patrol cadets and guerrilla warfare techniques at a paramilitary camp newspaper reports the post which has not been fully chartered by the boy scouts of america is run by robert johnson day of deer park who denies he is a clan member and louis bima pasadena grand dragon of the texas k._k. I'm proud to be a member of the clan said bogert a former marine from the port texas as we said he had been a member for two years there only two groups. I'll do battle with communists and homosexuals. That's the basic reason i joined the clan. Wow yeah wow what a what a man the grand dragon what just a simple paramilitary training camp teaching boy scouts. It's not clean campus. It's just run by the grand dragon of the clan in another random guy unbelievable just again the article notes that the concerns about the camp we're initially sparked when parents have explorer scouts and civil air patrol cadets complain that they're fifteen and nineteen year old sons we're learning guerrilla warfare techniques and racial slurs from leaders camp. Oh oh fair concerns as a parent. I usually think parents are being too sensitive about stuff like this share but not this year yeah soft these days but yeah kids are still too soft but maybe it's bad for the k._k._k. To teach them how to fight a war had eh guy the other guys not with the k._k._k. Jack so. I guess that's fine yeah both sides. That's why all of us kids our pussies because we didn't grow up ben talking like it. You get it yeah. How can you did so. There's anything to edit out. It's that no no no no no cinema verite katie. That's what this is <hes> so <hes> yeah it was the parents complained a civil air patrol major paul renfro who invested gated camp stated to the newspaper quote. There was nothing boy scout about it. There were on maneuvers that were firing unloading using live ammunition and the parents were very upset because they were told nothing about this. These guys misled the scouts outs so camp. Polar was shut down after this is resolved controversy but not forever no yeah now can't pull came together again during a very different time in the u._s. So the fact that a lot of these guys were active duty u._s. Servicemembers was not a problem is also so consequently at time and what's weapon theft and smuggling of military great armaments like rocket launchers civilian militias and terrorist groups was incredibly common also might be tied hi together those two things so in two thousand eighteen as i write this episode. The state of oregon is currently ground zero for a resurgent militia movement you you can trace the start of our most recent band troubles back to the standoff at the bundy compound. Bunkerville nevada was led the occupation of the malheur wildlife refuge in oregon a number of the men who were involved in that are currently helping being state level republican legislators in idaho or when i wrote this they've come back after getting their way because threaten people with violence yeah yeah so even from that brief summary. It should be obvious groups like this work. They don't have the numbers to enforce their will democratically but they do have guns which which they used to threaten people with horrible violence to get what they want their gambling on the fact that nobody else will deploy violence against them because for some weird reason those people would be seen as having started started it yeah so we're all all is angry angry yeah anti-democratic yeah yeah but it's fine for them now. If they were puerto rican would not be okay which is why the puerto rican group that attacked the capital with guns got wiped out and i think executed <hes> <hes> was bad for them but <hes> cool to do it yeah. If you're in the seventies or eighties there was an attack by a puerto rican terrorist group. I should've looked this up before bringing it up but yeah now we'll circle round circle around the they got heavily punished yeah <hes> but but not that's how much this some part and they do so when these people are not confronted and forced to face as consequences for breaking the law they continue to push which is what we've seen with all the guys involved in the bundy standoff suv now continued to push local laws and stuff <hes> in oregon oregon and it's what we saw with louis beam in the early nineteen eighties he and his fellow klansman had not punish for greensboro they hadn't really been punished for camp fuller in so beam started looking for more opportunities for he and his men to enforce their own rule of law in places where they felt the government wouldn't have the guts to stand up to them. Greensboro obviously had been proof positive of how well this would work so being looked south from camp polar and he saw the town see drift texas. He thought it was another place where he and his comrades people to exercise their will enforce the cowardly state to flee before them now see drift was crabbing town with a population of about a thousand people live there had been recently disrupted by the arrival of roughly one hundred vietnamese refugees overnight cedric want from a very homogeneous culture where everybody spoke english to a town where only ninety percent of the people spoke english. It's going to cause some problems for for them. Yeah yeah so that on its own might not have been an issue but the vietnamese families proved to be extremely good at fishing for crabs they work together and large collaborative fish groups and work more efficiently ineffectively than the native crabbers of cedric's. That's going to be a proud to think capitalism capitalism. They'd be rewarded for this. Yeah nope in august nineteen seventy-nine. There is dispute over the distance between two sets of crab crab traps. A fight ensued and a white cracker was shot dead. Two vietnamese crabbers were acquitted for the shooting on self defence grounds so what happened next will sound very familiar. <hes> rumors began to percolate the vietnamese refugees were being funded on sketchy government welfare checks smuggled gold at vietnam before they'd fled several of the men in sea drift gift were vietnam veterans and the scars of war hardened their hatred to their new neighbours which was ironic because the vietnamese refugees who settled in sea drift did so because they'd sided with the americans and worked with the south south vietnamese government and it had to flee the country when the communists took over her sure way more costing communism at them it really ironic fortunate yet communicate well another thing that i didn't know about <hes> yeah yeah. Nobody talks about good name for a crab in town is a good name for it is absolutely it. Oh yeah you could see like the movie starting. I'm imagining what's his name. The guy who you played sheriff brody and jaws who's in seaquest to incredibly naive roy scheider. I'm imagining roy scheider sheriff of this little town yeah okay. I can accept that i wish roy scheider was still alive so they can make a make a sequel to know. Ah what you for this movie yeah not seaquest. We got enough seaquest. He had a cameo movie called sea drift crabbing tone. You know what what we we could have we could have we could have the the the big boat in seaquest comes with that dolphin that spoilers seacrest shows up saves the day that is not what happens so in one thousand nine hundred the first of these new immigrants to see drift or in their american citizenship this provoked a paroxysm of rage three vietnamese boats and one mobile home where firebombed there were beatings one man pulled a gun on vietnamese fishermen walking across the deck and shot him in the leg louis beam and his clan waded into this mess with glee and consummate expertise they started putting out reams of propaganda newsletters magazines calling the vietnamese refugees boat people and accusing adding them of being riddled with tuberculosis and malaria clan propaganda also sought to stoke fears that the new immigrants would sexually assault local white women yeah don't fears the clan even named their activities in sea drift operation him line a reference to the modest decent white women that were supposedly protecting in one interview with reporter clansmen and nc drifts said galveston bay is just like a fine woman if you raper. She's never good anymore. The clan off no comment also. How do you rape obey. Yeah i mean actually charles coke could answer that question about about this bay because he's largely responsible for ruining galveston bay. He's had his way with quote. He's had his way with galveston. Galveston bay and it's no good anymore that old see song do oh you know the way to galveston bay. No it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work because we're i'm angry that we got hi. Uh i'm gonna do it through it. Towards the box of pringles wait wait the assistant. I knew that what happened. There was a real problem. It rained the pringles. It rained pringles box exactly what you wanted. They'll win in everywhere so very little digital containers of pringles. They're not like individual pringle ships everywhere that i would ask you know what i love is how satisfying theft on a podcast <hes> they might have to take pictures of it pictures of it. She shake your head now. She's ashamed as she should be anyway. Urging it on january tenth nineteen eighty-one anyone. The vietnamese owns shrimping vessel trudy was lit on fire in it's dock the next night and other vietnamese shrimping boat was burned. Local police reported seeing four white males in klan robes starting the fire. What wait was there was their fifth person. Nope nope <hes> all right. Yes probably the clan. Would it be a basketball team. We're if i wasn't in the clan and texas longhorn yeah so this would prove to be but a prelude in february of nineteen eighty-one the texas k. held a massive clan really and santa fe texas drawing three or four hundred armed paramilitaries as master of ceremonies. Louis beam burned a small rowboat load named the u._s._s. viet cong. He told the gathered clansmen to pay attention to his technique because he was illustrating the proper way to destroy by arson sure this was illegal because reasons didn't he decried the theft of the job security of real americans immigrants and promised that if the vietnamese fishermen and see drifted flea by may fifteenth the k._k._k. Hey would quote take matters into its own hands. In march road clansman started carrying out armed patrols of the galveston bay wielding assault rifles and displaying an effigy effigy of a lynch vietnamese person on the rigging of their boat. Several vietnamese families living on the water fled their homes after close passes by the clans armed patrol their pictures. You can find these patrols and they are quite shocking to behold. We're fucked. Yes crazy. It's i this is revolution. Yeah yeah yeah. It's it's the clay dan taking over law enforcement of town to enforce their laws. It's so terrifying yeah yeah that this just happened. Yeah that's just happened in one of these patrol pictures we seven men and one young woman in a mix of klan robes and military fatigues. They were rifles and stare out with early expressions into the sea. Most of them are overweight and on on an individual basis they looked distinctly observed in their costumes and military gear but there's nothing funny about the broader image of a squadron of armed and uniform racist enforcing their own laws on american soil yeah yeah it's kind of like if you make fun of these people for appearing absurd it allows them to do a lot of dangerous andrew shit without getting taken seriously yeah yeah what if we wanna foam was like the leader him in a military military uniform like he'll do it eventually so silly no yeah and it's going to spawn like a bunch of jokey hashtags. That's the thing that never happened. It's okay. I'll call him trump and that will deal with the problems. That'll that'll show him so can't polar had closed briefly after there controversy with creating boy scouts but it reopened in april of nineteen eighty-one which was just fine for some reason dozens of uniform militiamen began showing up again firing their guns past the homes of several black families who live nearby on their own land. The local sheriff complained that he could do nothing because quote. No one has filed a complaint. They won't file complaints because they fear reprisal or potential reprisal sure that guy qualifies as good guy of this story. Oh my god is the mayor of kema a small neighboring town to see drift where many of the threat vietnamese fishermen lived was less sympathetic. He admitted mitigate the site of clansman in robes was disturbing but declared. I don't have any reason to believe. The vietnamese are not safe. Oh my god the boats what's being written on fire might be might be one. The guy that got shot in the leg frustrating lynched effigy of vietnamese fisher though no this is like cheers is on the air doctor frasier crane had taken to the the screen if i'm not mistaken maybe maybe not eight nine. Hundred eighty. One was at eighty two the citizens holding tiffany. Ah started so that. I can marry well time when she did that yeah because if if frazier crane was around nine thousand nine hundred eighty nine do do so frasier crane should have said something about this yeah at least cold open yeah yeah at least the topic to be about it okay well. We're going to pull the ads now because i can't keep up with a with all these cheers gags so and we're back at the ron. Burgundy podcasts do baby carolina. Here is a pathological the logical okay so what does her brain like. I normally would disagree with this but i made a pact with ron earlier so yeah. Let's go with that one day. Brush your teeth in what when everyone else does on holidays in sometimes i forget. I'm not perfect this smell of your breath bother you. I mean the smell of rare steak and aged whiskey no care that doesn't bother me. You're bleeding a little bit for the back of your shirt that means it was a good waxing. They got the entire hair follicle aleka if you say i know so. How long has it been bleeding. It's been bleeding all night lar- shouldn't go cheap on waxing. I had to throw my sheets sheets out. This is ron burgundy until next time. Don't use public restrooms. Listen to the ron burgundy podcast on apple podcasts or on the i heart radio app or wherever you find your podcasts we're back we are. We're not talking about cheers anymore. I i don't know enough about cheers to joke about it all right. Yes moving on moving on an you know know no them for their cameos on frazier did worse in both yeah turns out. I know a lot about jews characters. <hes> you know what i learned about them and frazier anyway the book the book the relate related to a little bit so help did not come from the local government or for frazier law enforcement enforcement instead it came from the southern poverty law center who helped a group of vietnamese fishermen filed suit against the knights of the ku klux klan beam showed up to court wearing his klan robes carrying a gun unclaimed. I'm only charged with loving this country again. He wore a gun to his own trial and at one point challenged morris dees the lawyer for the s._p. L. c. to a duel to the death guy the except no no we did not eventually however the sunlight of the court case acted acted as a moderate disinfectant or at least the first sign of real resistance finally check the clans escalating use of force during the trial videos played of beam training militiamen. It can't polar in that that segment. He was seen advising his soldiers to conduct themselves in battle. He said quote utterly destroy. Everybody maximum damage maximum violence in the shortest period of time they can do only one the thing di- did not go over well in court finally on december third one thousand nine hundred nine under an avalanche of death threats. The judge issued a court order demanding demanding an end to the client harassment be paramilitary group can't polar and four other far right militia training camps in the area. Were ordered shut down the vietnamese fishermen had one but louis beam mm-hmm was far from defeated nineteen thousand nine thousand nine hundred nineteen eighty-one probably matter now yeah much matter. Yeah probably has other plans now. He did start making another plan. Oh he continued no spoilers it ends with a federal exploding so beam continued right speeches newsletters and articles in various far-right journals of record culminating in his nineteen eighty-three book essays of a clansman in this book he encouraged just fellow fascist vietnam veterans to bring the war on home to the united states while the legal prescriptions against biman as fellow klansman after see drift. We're more effective than the complete exoneration they'd received after greensborough. It effectively did nothing to actually stop clan organizing while the fascist right receded ever so slightly in the first years after reagan's election by nineteen eighty-four america's nazis had realized that the president was i'm not going to be the quasi nationalist leader. They'd hoped he might be no yeah again. What are they gonna do well. Nothing good yeah yeah yeah so the white power movement began to grow again after reagan failed to ban abortion and reinstate segregation <hes>. I'm going to quote again from the book. Bring the war home. Quote scholars in watchdog groups attempted to calculate the numbers of people in the movements varied branches including for instance klansmen and neo nazis who are counted separately estimate that there were about twenty five thousand. I was in hardcore members. In the nineteen eighties and additional hundred fifty to one hundred and seventy five thousand people bought white power literature sent contributions groups or attended rallies or other events signifying a larger although less formal membership and other four hundred and fifty thousand did not themselves participate or purchase materials but did read the literature the john birch society in contrast reach only one hundred thousand members at its nineteen sixty five peak. That's cool. That's a lot of people so we focused mostly on louis beam in the k._k._k. Neo nazis during this chapter but it's important to know that an awful lot of other fascist groups were active organizing and growing during this period militant right wing organizations popped up constantly throughout the one thousand nine hundred ninety one important group was the posse comitatus in brief the posses where a series of militant anti-government cells they were believers of christian identity theology eight and these true israelites also subscribed with conspiratorial interpretation of american history in which all government above the county level was fundamentally illegitimate. Posse believers felt the federal royal reserve in the i._r._s. Were part of a jewish plot to wipe out the white man and they're viewed the county sheriff was the only legitimate power in the land and if he did not act in accordance with the wishes of the county he should be hung by the neck until dead okay flavor but <hes> i follow yeah yeah you see where this is going so as a general rule posse members were big fans fans of hanging modern day sovereign citizens descend from the posse comitatus. You can draw a direct line between them and many modern militia movements including the constitutional sheriffs who supported the bundy clans mal al her occupation in fact when they got stopped and that guy lavar finning and got killed it was because the bundy brothers were driving with some of their friends to go meet a constitutional sheriff of course yeah cool appropriately enough. The first posse comitatus cell was formed in portland oregon back in nineteen sixty nine so weird weird but possibly beliefs did not generate national awareness until nineteen eighty-three when a guy named gordon call got into a series of gunfights authorities call a declared himself a tax protester in nineteen eighteen sixty seven writing the i._r._s. Let them know he would no longer pay taxes to the quote synagogue of satan. He was a big old christian identity fan sure yeah. He was arrested in nineteen. Seventy six got out on parole and went to ground near medina north dakota. A warrant was officially issued for his arrest over parole violations which prompted u._s. marshals to train arrest him while he and his family were driving home from a posse related meeting in february nineteen ninety-three a shootout ensued and colin. His family killed two federal marshals okay. She <hes> mhm gordon went on the run. After that was finally brought down in june after a vicious gunfight left an arkansas sheriff and call himself dead by the time called diet the posse movement had metastasized sized into a series of townships filled with white supremacist christian identity believers who considered the federal government illegitimate were heavily armed fiercely independent in more than willing to kill for their beliefs this this was part of a broader trend on the far right in the nineteen eighties to create autonomous enclaves for their ideology in isolated rural communities. Another such group was the area nations since neo-nazi organisation senator compound in hayden lake idaho on paper. The nations were officially a christian identity. Church led by the self-proclaimed reverend richard butler in the early early nineteen eighties butler's group began to reach out to incarcerated white americans eventually leading to the formation of the aryan brotherhood. A christian identity prison gang remains influential today hey from now. That was a concise little vandana that do you know that area brotherhood were christian identity believers. I didn't either yeah cool. I didn't know that <hes> until i started researching stuff yeah. Another christian identity compound was and still is today alot him city in oklahoma homa by the early nineteen eighties alot him was fully self sufficient community with its own sawmill crops in weapons ranges on four hundred sprawling acres alot hymns operations were funded by a transcontinental continental trucking company and construction business operated from the compound the denizens of below him considered american society to be decadent sinful beyond salvation and they home school their children and stockpiled of weapons in anticipation of societal collapse. <hes> i mean i want to do all of that without the religion. Can we can can can can i just stockpile guns on a compound compound. Mean probably i can dream seems like he can anyway donate to my go fund me by robert a compound. Ah you're talking to yourself guns yeah guns. Maybe a couple of illegally bought rocket launchers chickens <hes> <hes> just to have have police bearcat yeah yeah pig farm embodies sure yeah sure i bet it would be legal for me to do said illegally describing a few things what i did. I did well. I don't really want to come to that place. Oh come on. It'll be fun it. It was fine with these people. It was fine with these people. They got to do it but for how long they're still doing all right man telling a story there were numerous other far-right groups doing similar things around the country in the nineteen eighties most of them fell either into the mold of the low him city urging total separation from society or the area nations attempting to build a white insurgency against the scientist occupied government. These disparate groups were tied together loosely by christian identity beliefs and recruited heavily from the nascent prepping movement that started to crop up in the nineteen eighties and blood and politics leonard susskind notes quote for william pierce survivalist events became an opportunity for nationalist interested in self-preservation rather than the advancement of the white race so they start reaching out to these guys survival stupidity around the time now pierce goal became to infuse white racial consciousness into the survival movement and thus turn it from a disconnected community of armed loners into something you could use to bring about the revolution he desired independently clansman louis beams early nineteen eighty s on a similar goal spreading writing white racial consciousness in a desire for revolution to disaffected white vietnam veterans in nineteen eighty two he wrote america's political leaders bankers church ministers newsmen sports stars and hippies code as baby killers through chicken blood on some of us when we return home. You're damn right man. I've had enough. I want these same traits to face their enemy. Now the american fighting men. They betrayed all all three million of us. The tact that leaving takes beam wrote articles in which he warned of becoming mask gun confiscation he told his readers arm up and hide their weapons and hope that the future might bring headlines like this is louis beams like what would he wrote as his hoped for headlines millions of formerly peaceful useful law-abiding citizens up in arms vigilantes of one and two persons take law and tone hands politician cut in two by shotgun blast is he steps from car federal judge killed by bomb blast asked as he starts car. Judge found dead hands tied behind back throat cut u._s. Senator found hanging from limb of tree on river cool cool in good good in june of two thousand nineteen walter lubke the christian democratic union politician in germany. It was shot dead by a neo nazi terrorist look. He was hated for his support of angola merkel's open-door refugee policy his killer had ties to larger organizations of german nazi radicals which which included members of law enforcement on an unrelated note <hes> several weeks after this members of a neo nazi ring within german law enforcement. We're found with a massive stockpile arms and the list of politicians. They plan to murder this one now now like weeks ago. This was oh yes. This is the one i know about. This is the one that we all heard about so that's cool. So kind of sounds like the headlines beam wrote a yeah okay here about that. When you hear about like this everything everything it's like all these stories and at first you think well that was so long. It's just a crazy thing that happens and you're like this is fucking still happening is the same echo you're talking. I started thinking like oh. Maybe i don't know what's the per student what the percentage of racist cops is now versus lake. Is that the temper for some. I mean it's got to be more than ten percent. Sure i in comparison to later i like. I like to think that like this all happened so long ago and that things are getting better like there's a smaller percentage of people. That are this terrible but it's not true. Obviously is what i'm getting at is like what my thought process has been honestly see this whole episode the roles that they those people gravitate towards yeah anyway. We're still we're interrupting event so like many white nationalist in one thousand nine hundred robert what go on being expressed a growing dissatisfaction with the republican party in american conservatives in general he damped compromise and wrote that his readers should take up the sword adding the sword need not be literal. Although many of us would enjoy righteous righteous satisfaction from actually lopping off heads of the enemy in a sword in the year of our lord nineteen eighty-one can be an m._16. Three sticks of dynamite taped together a twelve gauge a can of gas or whatever suitable to carry out any commission of the lord that has been entrusted to you. This is legal right folks lord in nineteen eighty three louis beam published an essay in the inter-clan newsletter titled leaderless resistance resistance. This is where that term comes from in the essay. He argued that the top down organization of traditional fascist groups like his own clan rockwell's nazi party and its successor william pierce his national channel. Lions were fundamentally vulnerable to infiltration from law enforcement. This was backed up by the well known fact that rockwell's marches it off and been half composed of federal informants. It was also backed up up by the disastrous nineteen eighty-one attempt several american klansman to conquer the island of dominica hear about that one. This is quite a tale. Dominica's is a small island nation near venezuela an assortment of neo nazi commandos including clan leader named don black who'd previously been the driver of george lincoln rockwell's hate bus had gathered enough weaponry that they believe if they can deploy enough force to overthrow the prime minister of that country and install their own government then they could use dominica as a base of operations is a funding engine to support an insurgency in the u._s. Now i should note that a lot of those guys also just wanted to make money by setting up casinos and stuff so yeah it was a mix of people who just wanted money and nazi mercenaries and if the idea right uh-huh yeah yeah intersection out the whole thing fell apart before <hes> any of these guys get set sail f._b._i. Agents agents arrested ten nazi commandos in new orleans on a rented boat filled with guns dynamite bullets and confederate and nazi flags don black great things standing there just cover all your bases don black and several of these other guys spent time in prison and when black got out he went on to found the neo nazi website storm front. Okay thank god he's actually pretty minor part of the miami. You just wasn't a huge part of the dominica things kind of a kind of a guy. There was just one of the guys ah big deal so after dominica fascist thinkers like beam were eager to find a new way to organize that wouldn't just get them caught by the f._b._i. Yeah as he noted in artless resistance an infiltrator can destroy anything which is beneath him in the pyramid of organization in order to counter this beam suggested white supremacists adopt a cell type organizations nations similar to those used by communist insurgencies to quote leonard's askins blood and politics small groups of people work together but we're known to only one another other small groups worked independently in the participants participants of one cell remained unknown to the personnel of another lesson enemy infiltrator could possibly betray oneself but couldn't break up the entire underground while the cell structure wasn't improvement over the traditional pyramid. Your mid beam decided it also had weaknesses. The problem was it required a central command to give directions to all the cells and their new vision evangelism did not support one single leadership being proposed instead a structure of cells like the communists. It's operating independently of the others but without a headquarters sounds like terrorism does now this put beam indirect opposition to william pierce his national alliance and the idealized neo nazi insurgency he'd imagined in the turner diaries the order had included a strong central structure structure directing a series of semi independent cells wielding them as weapons towards the greater goal disrupting society in rendering it ungovernable pure beam in their separate camps were at loggerheads but in nineteen eighty eighty-three a man came along with the vision to synthesize their dueling theories into one violent whole could oh okay robert. Jay mathews was born in in marfa texas on january sixteenth nineteen fifty three. He joined the john birch society at age eleven. Who is that is yeah in nineteen seventy one. He was on his way to list at fort chuka arizona when he heard a radio report on the prosecution 'execution of lieutenant bill kelly the american officer who presided over the murder of hundreds of vietnamese civilians at my ally. Matthews obviously thought the killing of women and children was imminently justified in the fight against communism. Yeah he decided not to join an army. That wouldn't let him kill children with impunity. <hes> we all have to have values values are critical. I will not stand for this. <hes> that's true. I didn't think of that. I was all fired up to go to vietnam until i learned that my arm prosecutes. No thank kill thank you. I've changed my mind about this. Good news is he did still find a war to fight okay. I can see your worry written on your face game destiny. It was his destiny denny matthews i found himself drawn to violent. Extremism is part of the tax protest movement. He formed an anticommunist militia called the sons of liberty and the time protects fraud in the early nineteen nineteen seventies through his involvement with the survivalist movement. Matthews was gradually run into the cause of white nationalism. He moved to yeah what shocking <unk>. I'm moved to medellin falls washington in the mid nineteen seventies and in nineteen eighty. He joined william pierces national alliance. Matthews fell in love with the turner diaries. The vision of possible white revolution provided his earliest on the ground activism involved a series of childish fistfights with anti-fascist protesters during a nazi rally in spokane in spokane public look parking singlehandedly fended off several anti-fascists and earned a place in richard butler's inner circle and matthews was on the area nation compound in idaho in july nineteen eighty the three for the yearly congress white power leaders on that fine summer day three hundred wanna-be aryan revolutionary set down to plan the future of their movement louis beam team and other fascists thinker robert miles dominated the discussion. There are no minutes taken for such meetings since what was being planned at the congress was the violent insurgent overthrow of the u._s. Us government but it is generally accepted that the white supremacist leaders who assembled that day walked away with too broad conclusions about their future number. One was the need to use computer networks to organize isan coordinate. The leaderless resistance being advocated mental health number two was the value of self style organizations and taking the movement forward into the future. The dreams were grand indeed in robert miles sought to establish a series of no less than six hundred cells each one hundred miles apart so the nuclear war they all thought was coming wouldn't wipe them all out. Miles is theories. We're very much focused around the the importance of building the white supremacist movement that could dominate america in the wake of a nuclear exchange with the u._s._s._r. Beam anticipated nuclear war too but he was more interested in building a network of terror self could start carrying out attacks on enemies of the white race at once but in order to do all this beaming his fellow fascists. Were going to need a lot of money computer equipment was not cheap in the nineteen eighteen eighty six and the insurgency they needed to build required weapons to not just civilian weapons but military grade equipment rocket launchers and machine guns bought from metairie supply officers. There's nowhere to fund. This mile suggested robbing armored cars and bit by bit plan began to take hold louis beam. William pearson spent years sketching out theories and passing got propaganda they'd been rewarded by american fascist movement that was hundreds of times larger and more capable than anything george lincoln rockwell had commanded now it was time to take the next step forward and make the fantasies william pierce had written down on the turner diaries a reality the man to do that would be young bob matthews okay so that's the end of this chapter. You guests having a good time. I'm happy everybody island good anguish. We hadn't smoked pot earlier. I wish we hadn't smoked pot earlier but i'm a little less high. That's great. I'm a little less high and i'm really excited for this next chapter. I'm excited to throw these seats as that giant bag of sunflower seeds ever been opened. It hasn't been a great excellent than sophie wonderful. I had a whole case of barrier canned water but we can't can't away and i'm very unhappy <hes> but i am at some point during this recording session steel cans back and throw them you. She wasn't on mike but that was a serious serious. Throw them at something i'm going to do some damage doesn't seem like you're going to. I'm going to believe it. Was that chapter called how to build an army yet. Well there you go there. You go out for you know. Let's see what should i throw next yeah. You can do that twenty twentysomething paper towels yeah she's off before. You should probably run it. Oh god that was a throw did you. You could hurt yourself. That was a big. It's a huge bag roll paper towel size of you katie yup yeah last time i met weighed myself. I was twelve rolls of the paper towels so you're right square footage. Yeah well that too so i precise i'm not finishing sentences well today <hes> gugel our names and the words whereas like some more news even more news and the website or like platform that you're looking for a patriotic twitter google dot com and you can use google dot com to find out if i sell t-shirts might he does. That's on public. Thank you katie what else we don't have a website use twitter. That's a great white nationalist and it still is that yeah. If you go to twitter you'll see greek reads like from this guy at salt thrown through rope more like i pronounce okay okay roberts twitter handle. That tweet was made days ago so if he has for this moment burn. That's a good burn. She's really there yeah. That's fucking podcast chelsea handler teams with alexa brighten up your mornings all week long. Just say a alexa good morning. Chassis will start your day pretty cool right. It sounds nice though i'd put on a coffee mug totally so start your day with an award-winning writer actor comedian and podcasters chelsea handler just say alexa good morning and don't forget at checkout chelsea handler podcast life will be the death of me on iheartradio and just say alexa play chelsea handler's podcast.

Louis beam united clans us america vietnam texas pringles greensboro ku klux klan louis beam north carolina ron burgundy galveston bay george lincoln rockwell robert oregon joe biden oklahoma murder
Jay's Journal - 159

The How-To Heretic

1:21:08 hr | 5 months ago

Jay's Journal - 159

"Welcome friends how to heretic I'm mark. Dan I'm doug and this is your user's guide to life on the outside. That's right. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world, but it can also be a scary world things work differently no never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio winkles and with help from good friends and experts in all sorts of fields we're gonNA share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all the only get the one that we know of. Better, make the most. Jets. How do what is readings to all greetings to all? What is important about this week is not only that it is episode one, fifty nine but that it was preceded by episode one, Fifty Eight, which was a very special episode of blossom. Because it was. kind of a live show. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of out. We had a super time. Yeah. We did. We got to everybody's bright and shiny faces. We. We had a great time. We gave away a slew at t shirts to people who buy rights probably really lost the game and. and. The sure Glenn I'm looking at you. and. It was great fun and then we had Hosanna shout at the end and. How do you improve on that and I do? I mean, we should mention the t shirts are available to all. Teak Bundy's. For money all you have to is not, you don't even have to win a game you just pay some money and. And they're currently on sale by the way threatless having a sale. So head over there. Get. Some heretic Merch we're GONNA need it. I believe a show was famous for saying winter is coming so. That aside here we are an episode, one, fifty, nine. What a show what's there's some ups and downs for sure. I'm going to do a little book review for us about two books actually. In the Mormon, the Mormon contribution to the satanic panic. So that'll be fun. And then I'll try and everyone to tears with a little story about Mormon Communism. Mormonism organism and I am going to scare us all to death. By talking about the religion of the person who will likely be our next Supreme Court justice here in the United States and who was like twenty five years old and we'll be there until thirty to sixty three. She's a she's older than me is she I'm a young buck. She's she's mid to late forties. Yeah. Forty seven or so anyway, we'll talk some consolation I. Guess. So there you go. Let's. Any anything. Special guys other than the Youtube Channel, is there Verne's populating that for us so? Go Click on the links there and Joe is still holding down the fort over to the FACEBOOK PAGE It's not no. No he are the facebook page which everyone should go unlike is a different thing than the face. Then the unofficial, how'd you heretic Fan Group that US That's right. People post on the on the unofficial fan group point so. That's how you tell the difference. Yeah something's been posted sense two, thousand thirteen. So anyway, enjoy all that stuff were blown up on social media and with that, let's dive right in. Buckled in. Hello you know in spite of the fact that we are. Each in person the. Sorry. Yes. Oh Yeah. We did. We saw each other in person. Irl Luckily Doug's backyard is big enough for us all to be in opposite corners literally haven't done that since March yeah, we sat good ten twelve feet away from each other and and reveled in trump's diagnosis. But yes, it just reminds me that during quarantine there are many things I should have done and didn't do. some cardio would have been a good idea. To get some kind of handle on my alcoholism could have been a good idea. But I also didn't read as much as I wish I had so. I think you know? In lieu of reading I'd sure like someone just to summarize some books for me. So I let. Let's let's. Let's call this, our quarantine book club and. There is a service I've heard advertised where you can listen to just kind of the summary of a book. That's that's our next podcast audiobook summaries, which is kind of. It's It's non readers digest. Yeah. Cliff notes the via the radio. So I got a book review for you. Guys will do a couple of bucks actually, but let me start here. You guys know how it's. It's an open joke that New York Times op ED writer Tom Friedman World Traveler and Bon vivant mighty champion of both CIDER ISM has the uncanny ability to find himself in the back seat of a cab anywhere in the world. Only to have unsolicited the driver of the cab offer an opinion about whatever Mr Friedmann has in mind at that very moment. Like a Cabbie in Cairo offering his thoughts on the American voters consensus on the capital gains tax. Indian TUK TUK drivers musings about the north. American. Free. Trade. Agreement or a Filipino cabbie wondering when the Democrats are going to get their duff's and get off their duffs and come to the table for a bipartisan agreement on the lingering omnibus spending package. Yeah. Totally Bullshit. I think even had one of his caddy's at golf course be the source for one of his Collins. For, some. American. Inside political baseball things listen. We were raised on that Shit. We were look Mormon general conferences happening right now well as that. Head to stand introduce of for. I don't mean to to to jump your gun there. Sorry. But you're. Confirming my bias here. So you're you're being my cabbie right now. So how about high ranking seventies or apostles in the Mormon Church speaking at conference indeed going on at this very moment. Always, having just the right anecdote of a miraculous of art in a troubled doubter or fuck it a little miracle that fits almost too neatly into the very specific moral they're selling at the moment. Yet, those godly folk who are the subject of these faith affirming stories are never specifically named no funny that. But but these holy men with such sacred collingswood never lie about a thing like that. Would they? Always just SA- a sister in law Blah Blah once told me about an and then and never never named ever ever name. So these are two excellent examples of agendas in search of a supporting narrative. In both cases, these are obvious lies told to support preconceived position. And I should give A. Shout out to our superfan and patron I've I've on Ivy for the lead into this insidious quagmire we're about to into. Back, in episode twenty three, we did a big examination of the satanic panic of the one, thousand, nine, hundred, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety s that never really went away and now has found a home among many of our relatives and their laughably pigs stupid new Colt. Q. On which we Had One or two, but it's completely shifted. In that episode, we discussed just such an example of an agenda forward blizzard of lies the book that is largely credited with if not starting at least turbo charging the satanic panic and that book was called Michelle Remembers Right this salacious preposterously fictional screed is claimed to be the result of psychiatrists, Lawrence pastor guiding his patient and later wife Michelle Smith through a program of recovered memories which included a satanic dentist. Which which dentist isn't. Holding up most of her teeth, then drilling holes in the rest having horns and a tail sewn onto her body and being dragged around by Satan's tail during an eighty one day black mass in sleepy Victoria Canada were the actual Mary. showed up to tell her she was going to be okay. You know all real things that happen. This fraudulent piece of garbage became a guide for police departments nationwide on how to target weird teenagers, daycare workers and charged him with the ritual murders of children who weren't even missing and the authors were even invited on the Oprah Winfrey show. Yeah. Though as was established an episode twenty two oprah's pretty down to signal boost any absurd sort of bullshit that comes across your plate one hundred percent. Because Utah Mormonism never fail to surprise disappointed horrify. It turns out some Utah Mormons Shenanigans may have influenced the authors of Michelle remembers how about that guys were Exactly let's dive in. In Nineteen seventy-one one a two, hundred page quote diary conveniently authored by anonymous. It's The diary of good white Christian girl who after having LSD slipped into her cola pop at a party falls into a life of addiction sexual slavery and most shockingly occasional foul language. Yeah the quote diary go ask Alice was an overnight success. It has been translated into sixteen languages has been reprinted fourteen times. And A. And it is almost fifty one years it has never been out of print it. Never, it was edited by Sweet Little Mormon Church lady by the name of Beatrice sparks. Born in Idaho in one thousand, nine, hundred seventeen. Mrs Sparks raised a crop of Mormon. Boys and got her PhD asterisk from Byu after moving to PROVO UTAH. She became interested in the issues. Teens face mostly how to scare them into never leaving the Mormon Church. And became a team councilor of some kind in nineteen, fifty five although that's a bit vague. Sometime, around nineteen seventy, it occurred to sister sparks that she had a diary of one of her clients tucked away in a file and my goodness wouldn't it be helpful to the youth of today to read about the slippery slope from glass of Cola, pop to fucking bikers in a graveyard for a dose So deeply concerned to preserve the anonymity of the deceased younger on the story. Beatrice got to work. But funny thing. Despite the massive success and influence no one ever came forward to corroborate the story. No parent friend or relative nobody sister sparse claimed the diary which she said was a loose collection of notebook pages and random scraps of paper. You'd find it a drug party is forever locked in her publisher's vault. Sure wouldn't poor anonymous his cover blown fifty years after her death right guys rush and it gets a little shaky or still well, loads of teens read read the salacious details and still do this young adult fiction version of requiem for a dream. With trembling fingers halting breath having returned to it as adults, many of those same readers find it. suspicious. Teens tend to write in a pretty basic if emotionally, gus gushy sort of shorthand in their diaries. That would even be more of a teen who despite being strung out for weeks on a combination of speed acid boozing. We'd laying on the floor of a flop house yet still able to engage in the lady like discipline of keeping a diary. Comedic writer, Daniel Mallory or bird plucked some of the of the choicest bits of hilarious quote teen language. So I'm pulling from his writing here to share with you guys. The diary opens with the excited teen gushing wonderful news diary. We're moving daddy has been invited to become the dean of political science at blank isn't that exciting? Maybe it will be like when I was younger maybe again, he'll teach in Europe, every summer and will go with him I like we used to over those Fun Fun Times I'm going to start a diet this very day I will be positive positively different person by the time we get to our new home not one more bite of chocolate nor Neria French fried potatoes. We'll. My Lips. Lost Ten pounds of Lumpy Lord Oh, my God. Okay. I will give anyone listening a shiny new gold doubloon if they can find a single American teenager born after the civil war who has ever said the phrase nearly a threads fried potato will pass my lips. The only you can only say, French, Fried Potato with an English accent or like sling blade. and. FRY. Today. And she other times she dramatically laments. Precious diary. Author. baptizing. With my tears I know we have to leave, and then one day I will even have to leave my father and mother's home and go into a home of my own but. But ever will I take you with me? This is a fifteen year old girl in the late nineteen sixties and I'm pretty sure I can prove the last person who ever said Edgar said I'd take you with me came over on the mayflower. This is Anna fake gables. It's so but wait here comes the turn. At. That same young diarist, all flesh, Horsey love giggling over her diary on her princess bed. Her flowered pyjamas in a few short pages becomes this person and I mean in a few short pages. But just before I was two out of it to notice what was going on I. Saw Sheila that Cock sucker she goes with light. Out Speed I remember wondering why why they were getting high when they just set us out on this wonderful low and it wasn't until later. I realized that dirty sons a bitches taking. US and treating US SADISTICALLY BRUTAL that. had been planned strategy all along those low class shitty. Wow. Yeah, and this. I don't know who will win aware who it is I only know that I am now a priest. And Maintain after A. Test out for everybody was into take off. And then this which I just love. This this is real another day another blow job. The pharmacist clampdown this town is a dry. Okay and then fuzz should. Like. Only a ninety year old. Yeah, Oh, my God I know this is. What year was this publish nineteen, seventy or seventy Edward G. Robinson wrote that dragnet right. and. Then shortly after that day's obligatory, blow Tori Blowjob, the book ends jarringly followed by this postscript. The subject of this book died three weeks after her decision, not to keep another diary. Parents came home from a movie and found dead say Oh, the police and the hospital but that was nothing anyone could do. Wasn't an accidental overdose, a premeditated overdose knows and in some ways that question is an important. What must be of concern is that she died and that she was only one of thousands of deaths that year. So. You know maybe if Mommy and daddy had called an ambulance rather than the hospital where the rights goes to, she may have lived. So as Dan was alluding for anyone who may or may not. Have any drug. Knowledge out there. The quote writer or editor of this alleged journal definitely had none right here was the order of use of drug use in the book see if you can. See Any red flags. LSD. Lead. Ben, Zoro's various uppers downers injected speed much much more acid tranquilizers. And Lastly Marijuana. Oh. She finally made it to the bad one. It was the weed she was terrified of ended up selling her body for and if narrative progression is to be believed died of. Diary that lift list of drugs was lifted directly from fear loathing in Las Vegas except in reverse order on. That's what he had in his pocket. So. As Dan was alluding to earlier so just from the language and obvious ignorance of drugs. They're typical progression and effects. The listener can judge for themselves whether this quote diary was written by a teenage child of the nineteen sixties or maybe just maybe a very sheltered religious Mormon lady born during the first World War with a serious missionary zeal for her moralizing agenda, take your time Oh my God Also, I just I. You know you can smell when especially when you grew up in it, you can smell when someone's trying to use shock language for Mormons like the word blowjob would make a Mormon teenager faint in nine hundred eleven exactly. But like someone who has actually like suck index to get their next hit yeah. They wouldn't be nobody would say another day another blow job. June the clock got a case of the Mondays. Enjoy. It I I want to. Look it up and see if there's an audio book. Sounds. Awesome. If there isn't we're we're doing we're doing the unauthorized audiobook patrons only you can't tell anybody about it because we'll get in trouble and I will do the kind of Moe the bartender version of her after the drugs. Exactly. What we'll do we'll take turns doing different voices his lack. Today another blow job when you Go. In short, this is a forgery and a work of fiction passing itself off as something more than that. But snaps and the New York Times among many others confidently put a stake through its stupid disingenuous art. Should you care to look those up? And that's just the beginning of sister Beatrice sparks his ethical skid mark on the American teenage landscape fellow. By the name Beatrix Beatrice sparks sounds like the most wholesome porn star. So, flushing feeling I'll head up over her success with go ask Alice sister sparks took on a new and very much more fraught project having seen the quote positive effect. Go ask Alice was having a cautionary tale for young readers. A bereaved mother named Marcella Barrett Approach Sister Beatrice sparks. A fellow Mormon from the same Utah County area and therefore far too credulous entrusting a mark. She had recently lost her beloved sixteen year old son Alden Barrett to suicide. Oh that's Terrible. In hopes that sparks could publish something to warn against suicide in terrible pain that remains in its wake. Mrs Barrett entrusted sparks with her dead Son's Real Journal. No sister sparks accepted this great trust on her by betraying that trust stupendous sleep. You see for deeply religious people when their agenda is more important than the truth the agenda supplants the truth and in fact, becomes the truth. In in their own minds as they consciously set about a time consuming fraud in the in the process, right. So after changing album Allen's name to J and really not a lot of other details to preserve his anonymity. Beatrice sparks took this journal of a normal teenage kid and his angst about school girls, the raging Vietnam War and a suffocating religious culture he was he was living in. And turned it into well, something entirely different using only twenty one of the over two hundred real journal entries sparks meet packed a total fiction onto the very real skeleton this tragically lost young man story. Are Let the words. Of Very Funny Blogger. Mondo Molly laid out the plot nominally J. story is supposed to scare readers off of a cold activities but sparks casts a wide net warning teenagers about the dangers of drugs sexually aggressive high school girls, predatory homosexuals, GBS, ESPN telekinesis crystal balls, cattle, mutilation, transcendental meditation, Voodoo, cosmic alert, astle, astral projection yoga, and the lost continent of Atlantis. You just slipped cattle mutilation in there like we weren't gonNA notice. I'll come. God Edge. She finishes by saying I'm sad that Kim trails thing in nineteen, hundred nine because I completed my Bingo card. So however tragically Alden Barrett died and however much trust his grieving mother placed in Beatrice sparks. Sister sparks agenda of the moment was Satanism and the occult. So that is what this horrendous fraud of a book called Jay's Journal is about. A good Mormon boys descent into black masses and levitating silverware with the kids down to the Purple Turtle. That's true. It should be abundantly noted nowhere al-Din. Barrett's real diary. Is there even a whiff of this bullshit? So the real diary extent? Yes. Okay. So Beatrice sparks later had several versions of how she arrived at this completely fabricated liable saying she interviewed friends of his found personal letters, etc. She died just five years ago and never produced shred of evidence to corroborate her shifting claims. She had apparently also promised the Barrett family that they could see the manuscript prior to publication and guess what that didn't happen. Shocking Yeah So. When the family finally read the book say saying they were horrified would be an understatement. Apparently was all too much for the already grieving family and it just fell apart. This is Mrs Barrett being too trusting and of a certain generation of Mormon made the colossal mistake of not suing the pious sister sparks down to our last pair of garments. aldean's younger brother Scott has been on a lifelong crusade to clear his brother's name and expose beatrice sparks bad faith assault on his memory. He self published a refutation of Jay's journal including the full text of the actual journal an answer to your question, Dan He also has facebook page called a place in the sun. The Truth Behind Jay's journal if anyone is interested in checking that out. Over forty years since the book's publication and nearly fifty years after albums tragic death, his grave is still regularly vandalized and defaced. I know in a two, thousand, four interview with the Salt, Lake City weekly Beatrice sparks said her lawyers told her not to talk about the book to the press obviously? But she did express puzzlement with the anger of the Barrett family. Hopefully explaining that in the nineties she had written them a personal check. For seventy. Five dollars. Then what the hell are they complaining about Yeah Okay so she was deeply duplicitous fucking cultish fraudster. So got it. But let's drill the drill the book a little bit more here as. As the quote about the plot summarized Jay's journal is preposterous as it is false and morally poisonous. In the story the. And go ask Alice Jay's an innocent duped into a world of payroll by cities forces. This is a really common in constant conscious trump in in young adult cautionary novels. The want to scare young teens who would never dream of levitating in a graveyard or giving blow jobs for crank into believing the world outside their parents. Church leaders. Watchful eyes is full of sneaky queers and push your man and slave catchers groovy vans. And it keeps their character sympathetic to the hyper judgmental young Christian readers. But like Alice the complicated bright young J. once corrupted by the Diabolical Tina. A classic evil temptress of the last seen hanging out by apple trees in the first chapters of Genesis. J finds himself tempest tossed in an invisible sea of quote Oh, the letter Oh this is a this is j's Word for the occult and for the underground cultists that are every fucking where in this tongue heap of a book. His closest friends, his teachers, his school counselors teacher at the boarding school he gets sent to after stealing from his dad's pharmacy. The entire world, and this is like Utah County in the seventies, right The entire world is easily eighty percents secret satanists. If one if one were to extend the Satanic Statistics of Jay's journal Globally. Of course we boards make the requisite appearance. If you WANNA get a taste for how white knuckle horrified Mormons like Beatrice sparks are those checkout episode fifty eight but in short, they are paralyzed with fear of them. And here are some choice quotes from the book just marvel at people thinking anything like this was true. All the blood was dumped into the TUB and one by one we were baptized in it washing the sins and imperfections of our prio life away our heads were anointed with a few drops of urine we had milk out of the Bulls Dinghy as he was laying. I note here they cowan the story. So neither was it a bowl in possession of a dinghy and also We're levitating slaves of Satan covered in blood of an animal we just murdered, but we're far to shine innocent to say the word. Pena's right. So more. So here Jay is under both in the next the next thing here he has. The power of Satan and of course. PCP right I. feel the whole group throwing power at me and a strange burning. burning. Incense filled my nostrils my throat, my chest detached from my own self somewhat surprised I found myself undressing joining the circle angel dust it should be called temple dust. With is really pulling for this kid. Yeah. So here's a little Spooky Mormon exoticism that sister sparks thought young minds of nineteen seventy-eight Mike Get spooked by. Tina Tina and I sat on the floor with a candle between us in a very low muted voice. She told me how in the dark evening hills of Haiti the drums begin to throb in the warm night air as. Priests conducted sacred secret ceremonies requesting favors favors from Ebo Damn Bala and other. Gods. So getting a just an tincture of racism and in. Good. I call that. That's cultural exchanges. What that is. A multi cultural and hall. And of course, Tina can be both a handmade of Satan and a standard-issue highschool mean girl at the same time. I quote Tina one runner up in the midst apple. Hill contest she said the we. And the crystal ball both had said, she would be queen and only my. negativeness made her slip down to princess. Sister sparks terrible. fucking writer. You could almost believe possessed six year old boy. Almost. So Jay's journal became a staple of the satanic panic cannon albeit lesser known than Michelle. Remembers the harm caused by this fever of stupidity that swept and continues to sweep the country is hard to overstate. But less you think that the godly sisters sparks repented her ways I mean other than that seventy five dollar check. She did not. She continued to quote find diaries a fucking lot of them including. It happened to Nancy by anonymous teenage. Almost lost the true story of an anonymous teenager's life on the streets and he's baby the diary of anonymous a pregnant teenager treacherous love the diary of an anonymous teenager. Kim empty inside the diary of an anonymous teenager. And Finding Katie, the diary of anonymous teenager in foster care. I wonder if all of these teenagers had very similar writing voices, probably I wonder now that couldn't be right. Well, another day another blow job. Beatrix. Needs to be careful because this addiction to lies and fake diaries could lead to marijuana know. So. Upon sister sparks death just five years ago. She was still earning royalties from both go ask Alice and Jay's journal. And very likely many more of the anonymous journals that coincidentally happened to bolster her hyper conservative scolding Nanna Generic Mormon views about what happens when young people dare stray half an inch from what their parents and church demand of them. Funny that now, most of these quote diaries do have some fine print attached saying they're works of fiction for all the kids that read the publisher's page of their books. But then she still can cast herself as the editor rather than the author. Clearly, clearly wanting it both ways. Right. And this is hilarious. She also wrote and produced a pilot for a children's television show called quote the calamity. Kids. And if you guess those words are spelled with a K. correctly. Literally the calamity kids is a television phenomenon, which IMDB generously describes as no results found for the clams kids. Youtube. Did however find it and I still put this crime against horrible television in the show notes. Should you feel like getting yourself in the head with a brick for some reason I'm just I'm just hoping that there is a moment where one puppet says to another another day. It's set in a in a Utah County kindergarten. So probably going to say. Good for everyone else I shall summit up sleep. If you hate a focus camera you'll love this window and. Time. In Utah when every man woman and child had bowl cut and everything looked entirely shit. So that's the deeply unethical fabulous doctor Beatrice sparks entered, scaring and shaming books. Go Ask Alice and Jay's journal. Oh except that no, one has ever been able to find any proof that she had a PhD nor did she ever provide evidence of it? She may have been practicing psychiatric care without a degree or license which I mean that's super hard to believe from this woman right? Right. How could that even now it's not plausible and despite saying she was the editor of her books copyright search show the only person listed so too bad. So sad for any of the troubled teens or their families hoping for some royalties from her exploitation of their stories real or not and critics believe Jay's journal was the only one quote based on a real person right but under the gas. Details that's story of the good doctor maybe not Dr Sparks and her first show for sure totally real. Go Ask Alice and Jay's journal. And I need a silk which our? Yeah. Totally. We talked about this. We've talked about it many times we talked about it in the Satanic Panic episode is that you you know like all? These? You know you if you just take a minute and really think about. Which I've just as qualified myself from a conspiracy theory but. You know like, okay, you're saying these teenagers, they killed a bull. In a city in a house. Dr- drained. It's blood and killed it elsewhere and then and then somehow got buckets of its blood home. Yeah. Okay. Squeezed some some some you're not of the dinghy, the dinghy right but I mean all these satanic rituals involved at bodies and animals. Yeah. There's these are crime scenes. Yeah. You you just and the like you said, mark the quantity of people to believe that these things are true. Basically every other person or everyone who's not you? But. Every time you get one of these reports about satanic rituals. It's not just a single incident it happens like weekly or monthly or whatever, and you know. This is just one of a thousand different cults just in Utah alone or whatever. Where all these missing people. In. Our own mother was wrapped up in this idea that there was a a a Non Mormon family in the neighborhood, these poor family and and that they had a a human body in the House that they. Pushed children through to bring birth them into Satan all the missing kids I'm like WHO's missing? From school nobody's missing from church the fucker these children, right All right. Well, it's believable enough that Beatrix sparks probably probably. died a rich woman unfortunately. died she died. She should have been poor for sure. So let's move on. On. Kamarck present and accounted for here's the deleo. Tell me. We are headed if the election goes the way, some people want in this country to Jill Stein. Post. Toward. A Marxist Communist. Hell Scape Narcos syndicalist Nazi communist-fascist. JAYWALKING REGIME RIGHT It's IT'S GONNA. Be It's GonNa be a socialist nightmare? Yeah. The of which the world has never seen. Or has it or has it Uncle Doug? You're surely you have some input on this I do have something to say about this. So Doug, your lead correspondent on who should control the means of production. The Doug Areas. Well your uncles. It's a particularly beautiful time of year in our pretty great state. The aspen turning the brutal desert heat of summer is given way too soft autumn evenings, and of course, old White Mormon men have made their by by annual migration to downtown Salt Lake City to attempt to board each other to death in order to move up the hierarchy. Right, as Michael Mark mentioned before it's general conference time. For new listeners who don't know what general conferences think of it as a version of Mormon hunger games except that everyone is fat old white and male no one does anything nothing happens and everyone is already dead inside so I don't volunteer his tribune. This free turn off his. Office. Listeners I promise we will not review conference right now we'll do that another day you can us out these really. Yeah. Okay. Blue we will wait for it to fully end prey to guy of there is another hosanna shout moment that will sustain us for another six minutes. But because of the fact that this is a festival season for Mormons, I thought we could take another dive off the ten meter board into the shallow end of the Baptismal Font and discuss another black eye in the Mormon church called the united. Order. Boy I'll tell you the Mormon Church has so many black is that it couldn't hold its own priests until nineteen seventy eight. Clear. Okay Good Yeah The United Racism and violence all wrapped into a job. Beyond you welcome. The United Order is an umbrella term for several ultimately unsuccessful attempts some form of socialism. Within the Mormon church spanning between Eighteen, the eighteen thirties in the eighties. The nineteenth century was a time of social experimentation around the globe and the burned over district of new. England was no exception. When Joseph Smith, founded the Mormon Church in eighteen thirty there were several communal experiments going around going on around the area. These movements were rooted in the same source materials as the myriad religious revivals that gave the burnt over trix name. Back in episode one, forty, nine and one fifty we talked about the book of acts in that book. the early apostles set up a fully socialistic system where member surrendered all property and possessions to the Church to be doled out according to need. If, you remember to early Christians and aeneas and his wife Severa were killed on the spot for holding back a tiny bit of their earnings. So any self-respecting religious revival movement was obligated therefore to give socialism ago. This brings us to one, Sydney ridden. Ridden was a somewhat famous preacher in the early nineteenth? Century. Where he at some point bumped into a young Joseph Smith their early relationship is pretty murky, but it's pretty pretty widely accepted that he had a hand in the writing of the book, of Mormon. A member of Riggins church at the time was one parley p Pratt. We discussed back in episode fifty one. and. The story of how he helped. Mass murder in and ended up in statue form outside the grocery store down the road from me this. Day. FRAPP PREP came a very early convert to mormonism and brought the book of Mormon to Riggan who read it preclude proclaimed its truthfulness and converted bringing his sizeable flock along with him. So, this was basically tantamount to win Dick Cheney leaked stories to judith. Miller in the in the New York Times back in like two, thousand, three, two, thousand, four. Then sight of those stories is proof of what he was saying, right? Right. It seems fairly clear that Reagan was in on the plot and had had hoped to make a buck off the book of Mormon Lake Joseph. And it turns out the ribbons. Infusion of members may be one of the only reasons that mormonism survived infancy. The problem was however early converts to the Mormon Church were consistently poor such that Josephine rigged and were unable to build them out of much though not for lack of trying. Joseph Solution with ribbons on flock a group of fifty or so people living community on a farm calling themselves the family. As was his way Joseph received a revelation that just so happen to dovetail with exactly what he wanted to do in the first place. He received the revelation that will on what would be called the law of consecration in early eighteen, thirty one. So I mean the church isn't even a year old. As we've discussed before the vast majority of the revelations Joseph received during his lifetime related to financial matters. And he received several several revelations about the law of consecration which would later be called the. United Order. In fact in eighteen thirty, four Joseph Penn doctrine and covenants one. Oh Four. Six and one, zero, four in verse one which states. The United Order was intended to be quote an everlasting order for the benefit of my church and for the salvation of men until I come. And no one should be. Lasted a few years. Turns out the turning over all your earthly possessions to a man renowned for financial chicanery. Sexual predation was a bridge too far from any early Mormons. And it was indeed these factors that eventually led to Smith's assassination in eighteen, forty four. After. Brigham had taken control of the church and brought it out west. He was the first. He was at first preoccupy preoccupied with waging unsuccessful war on the United States. And successful war on native Americans but eventually, 1874 Brigham Institute of the United Order of knock in Saint George Utah, and then in at least two hundred communities in Utah. Nevada. So there was no single overarching you know United Order, but rather two hundred or so individual experiments and socialism. Because these communities were so isolated, they all had their own rules and regulations. But generally the system required members to deed over their property to the church, which would grant them back most of it to work, and but but but reserved the right to redistribute the land to the poor as they saw fit. Now before you're tempted to think of this as a noble venture recipients of the redistributed land were then required to work off his debt until it was paid in full. This was, of course, a form of usury. I point this out only to remind everyone that even the attempts charity within the Mormon Church are all tainted by some form of Awfulness so I mean basically, it's a fiefdom at that point. Yeah exactly. You're. You're you're a vassal. Very Very. Futile for sure. members were further required to excess crops and livestock to the churches well. To This Day in rural Utah. Still see what was called the bishop's storehouse. Usually a bar next to the church house where the Bishop kept the those store. Kevin would store those good. So you've seen those right guys. Yeah Yeah. So I mean it's a concept that still exists the bishop's storehouse only now it's not. It's. It's not what it was not an actual place. It's just. You, know a store of of food and stuff that AOL the Mormons who are suffering from hardship can can get some food out exactly. No active Mormons will always point out at this point that the United Order was fully voluntary and families under duress to participate. This is bullshit Jan yeah yeah. Brigham young was known for many things but issuing suggestions was not one of them more not really known for voluntary. Do It don't. So. From Eighteen, seventy, four, forward, two hundred or so communities implemented some form of the United Order and every single one of them would eventually fail most with only within only a few years. The town of Orrville. In Central Utah which was founded specifically to practice the United Order gave up on it and eighteen, thousand five. One. Of the names name didn't change. I looked up orrville online and at the two thousand, ten, census, fifty, five residents. Yeah tiny. It's tiny if you drive south on eighty nine to Vegas, you drive right through it. one of the last towns to continue the practice was ironically Bunkerville Nevada. If that name rings a bell. It's because it is the hometown of one cliven Bundy. Right? We talked about backing episode Communist. Super Big Fan of a socialist ideas. Yeah exactly. He's famous only for his disdain of centralized government and the specter of socialism. So, there's that. Now. I'm not going to get into the political differences between socialism and communism except to say that most of the experiments under the United Order tended much closer to communism with property and goods being owned by an undemocratic preoccupied with the equality of outcomes. So. This is not the form of socialism that we would find compatible with democratic societies today. These experiments failed for the same reasons that the Soviet system failed in the nineteen eighty s corruption and mismanagement widespread, and so distrust and resentment eventually led the these communities to give on the United Order even though it contradicted. Brigham wishes so. Not a common thing. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact remains that from its inception to right before being granted statehood the Mormon Church was at least trying to be a communist collective. If that seems somewhat incongruous with with the Mormon. Church has become. That's because it is. The fact that an organization only all the way. But only completely totally yes. Yeah. The fact that an organization that would make Adam Smith. was founded on principles that would make Karl Marx. Proud is not lost on modern mormonism. As, churches desperately tried attempted to be accepted in modern society. This history has proven problematic especially since the main political bogeyman of the twentieth century was communism. And so the leadership has gone to great lengths to explain that the United Order wasn't what it obviously was. One of the most famous attempts for this was a speech given by Apostle Marion G Romney at Byu in nineteen, sixty six. And YES MARIAN IS FIRST COUSIN OF CURRENT UTAH Senator and Human Weathervane Mitt. By it's fun to say his name with the stain I just realized that. I think we'll have plenty more chances. This speech is still widely reference to this day and boy if you want to hear a speech that has not aged well to say the least, go ahead and give it a listen. In the speech given during the height of the Cold War Romney fails utterly to explain why the United Order wasn't socialist while at the same time reminding all listen that madman was closer to a documentary drama. In the speech, Romney makes fun of his stupid wife for suggesting that caring for the poor is a noble goal. Then, he goes on to give a tortured metaphor about two horses. I don't really understand what's going on here but this happened in the metaphor, a farmer has trouble distinguishing between two horses. They both look alike run the same and sound the same. Finally he measures both of them and wouldn't you know it? The white one was five hands taller than the black one. Now five hands didn't notice five handsworth height. He couldn't tell one was white and one was black. Yeah, they're opposite colors and that to my mind them fucking distinguishable. Size difference. I. Didn't get the joke at first now again. Okay. Well I think it's both things. But I still can't understand what this metaphor had to do with the subject matter and you know one could be forgiven for simply thinking of it as nothing more than ham fisted. WAS NOT. For the fact that the church at the time fully believed in the primacy of the white race and did not allowed blacks to be full members, it's pretty problematic when you listen to it, it's like. What conference talk isn't So the Modern Mormon church is fully embraced naked voracious predatory capitalism and prefers not to talk about the time in college when it wore A. T shirt however many. Many of the new offshoots of mormonism. Especially, the polygamist ones still practiced various forms of the United Order. Oh. Yeah. Totally up. It turns out. It's much easier to subjugate women if they are not allowed to even own the clothes they wear. Yeah. So it seems the United Order as practice under Joseph and Brigham didn't have a body count. So that's good as far as it goes. That's. An incredible stroke of luck. Yeah it's almost unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Truly. But. As. It's practice. Now it is a brutal system of control and subjugation that most definitely has a body count. So you know there are people, women and men. Today not far from where the three of us are an in places around this country that are born into basic slavery. Certainly sexual slavery that are you know that are born into basically it'll communistic commune's. Incredible poverty women especially, women and children experience incredible poverty I can I can walk from my house Doug. To the to the headquarters of the Kingston. A polygamist clan here very much this Shit Yup and in just living in absolute destitute poverty destitute poverty and and you know for those who've seen big love. Think of the polygamous that were often the dusty desert. And that lived in true misery and their communities, and we'll talk about them another time. But where a lot of these kids are born without birth certificates and They're you know therefore off the grid and therefore when they go missing for various reasons, no one comes knocking. And you know. I have to ask believing Mormons. If any and you're listening to this podcast at this point if everything Joseph ever did was either fraudulent false are fucking evil. What are you doing? The things that have made it to the modern era that he thought of are just terrible terrible things. He did some nice stuff. I'm pretty sure. Something Nice at some point sure. Well, I don't know I was GONNA. Say maybe he remembered his anniversary then I'm like oh man he had so many remember. Yeah. Well, I mean every day was an anniversary. Yeah. If you have that many wives you're going to be you're gonNA hit within a week or so something. Just, everybody flowers every day just to be on the safe side right now I am I am not an anti socialist I believe in many of the principles and goals, of socialism. And not for nothing but Jesus was undoubtedly socialist too. But I don't believe. I don't believe for a second that Joseph tried to implement this this socialist experiment because he gave a shit about the poor or injustice. Now, he thought it was a way to get his hands on their money pure and simple. You know if Joseph had become a rich man before he died, he would have absolutely done away with because you know you have the money well, and we've we've talked about multiple colts that take the same tack. You give me all of your money I distributed to all of us, and then the rich guys don't notice that even though they're participating in the same thing as everybody else they're the one that's funding the whole thing, right? Yeah, and they fail. If. There's a truism in this world. Is that these colts these socialistic colts all fail and thank God. MORMONISM did too and it's not around to bother US anymore. Thank God. That is united order. Amazing. Well, then let's let's all give ourselves. Some breathing room and move on. Gentlemen. We are we convene each week to make the show for the people and the people? In turn, they feel the Holy Spirit from us and they decide, Oh, I'm going to give them money and I think the Hashtag blessed. And I think that that's correct I think everyone should do it and I think it should probably be ten percent of their income. Why not just seems fair Com seems like a nice. It's a nice round number. So So go ahead and do that We have some folks that thank people who decided to give us money this week and those people are Emily Christine, lamb chop of Satan. And David thank you all so much for your generous contributions anyone else who wishes to contribute can do so by going to how to heretic dot com and clicking on the support us have it doesn't hurt it tickles a little bit. Yeah and it's nice and then they're you know if you can't do that. We're not mad. But there's more that you could do. Stars. Starring to start Astra to the stars there for you. They're free for you to fill our sky with constellations of love in a giant stellar. Hug. So if you can go someplace, anyplace gives five stars the right review write a nice review longer. Bear false witness I don't give a shit. Look. We don't believe in religion anymore. So lying is not a sin if you if you like us four stars amount give us five stars. It's still the right thing to do. Yeah. And, and that will help us get the word out to round up always around up when always round up everything rounding. If you think we're a two star show still round up to five. That's just how this works reducer show. What are you listening? Why are you doing this? Hang up the phone. So yes, give us give us money and we're just going to keep giving you the the love through the infected air every week. Indeed. Moving up. Doug. There's been things. Keep me up at night recently. Do Tell Yeah, yeah, A. For Is it everything? It's a combination of everything, but there's there's an everything that's everything than all the rest of the everything's insuring is. I'm really concerned about Catholic representation on the Supreme Court I'm just going to say. I'm just GONNA. Say Yeah. Ever. Since Scalia died, it's down to like eighty percent and I just don't think that's right. I. Thought. You were going to say what's keeping you up at night is the fact that the world we're living in seems to be Alex Jones Reading the book of revelation in your ear. I actually bought his the audiobook. Love you. Watch. You should do audio books he should, and that's the one to start with. US Judy Blume or Do Go. Ask Alice. We we hire some sweet girl for the before voice and he after. but no guys you're right. It has been a hell of a week or two or three or four whatever. What is it ever? A crazed quote unquote debate then trump and half the people who have met him finally succumbed to their own stupidity in the form of a virus that they all knew about and could easily of avoided if they hadn't decided to take the. Taking reasonable precautions to protect each other is slavery approach. Yeah. Hold on cargo exhaled and I think my almost microscopic violin blew away. Let me see. Right. Yeah and my car got broken into. So is that true? She's been a hell of a week you thanks Obama thanks. Obama So and then there's the Supreme Court yeah. So Ruth Bader Ginsburg whose influence moved the needle dramatically on issues of equality. Especially for women decided, we needed one more lunatic issue to atl are already pummeled brains. She drove a truck of chaos to the top of mount politics and shuffled off this mortal coil. Yes. She was more cancer than women by the end but yes, indeed bought the fight the good fight. So. As soon as that happened, the United States Senate led by the same foreskin with is who blocked Obama's nominee Merrick garland four years ago saying it was too close to the election even though Antonin Scalia is Saas pocket burst not late in September but an of an electioneer but February. Admit admitted that their own policy only applies to them when it helps so and determined that that they would push through whatever nominee the donald put in front of them. Yeah. That nominee turns out to be amy Coney Barrett Appellate Court judge, Notre Dame law professor, and mother of Nineteen Children I kid. Her Quiver isn't that full, there are only seven youngins currently being neglected because of her insane work schedule. So. The short time since her announcement pundits on the right have screamed and shouted that Barrett is being discriminated against you're crying foul yelling religious discrimination from the rooftops they hiss and bark and they say that the liberal left is treating her unfairly because she's A. Catholic. This. Cry Has Begun Lake it almost came with her name. Yeah Right. They were ready for it. They were ready for it. There are more Catholics sitting in the Supreme Court Chamber any day than there are at a fish fry in Boston on Friday totally look five and a half of the eight remaining justices on the supreme court are Catholic life. Seems to be some confusion about whether gorsuch considers himself Episcopalian or Catholic anyway fucker. He was he was raised. Catholic. So you know we'll give him a half on that one. All right but so anti-catholic sentiment, he's half flick. Flick that's right. Look nobody raised any fuss about any of them and their Qasim Joe Biden. The Democratic candidate for president of the Goddamn country is Catholic Stalinism is obviously not a problem for dams. So what's really going on? Well to answer that we need to talk about her other religion. What you ask how could she have another religion? You can't have more than one religion. Can you did she convert? Well? No, and also maybe we'll get to it. But before we do follow me back in time to nineteenth. Century America. When a young upstart religious movement claimed to be restoring the original power of the Church of Jesus. Christ, to these latter days, they claimed that individuals could have personal revelations and could work powerful miracles with the restored priesthood powers of old. They believed in the gifts of healing and tongues and other spiritual gifts and the these gifts could be wielded by. Ordinary believers not just the chosen few now here's the thing. You could have been raised in one of several American religious traditions and I might have just described your origin story. What I just drive certainly applies to mormonism that we all grew up in but the thing is that that is not at all a unique story it applies to literally hundreds of different religious movements in the United States in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. In this case, I'm talking about the movement that led to pentecostalist them and then eventually to charismatic Christianity. Now pentecostal ISM is named after the holiday pentecost, which is the Christian. Name for the Jewish holiday shove vote or the feast of weeks. But when Christians celebrate it, they're not commemorating the giving of the Torah to the people of Israel at Mount Sinai. No. The Christians took that already established holiday and changed it for their own purposes. Weird. Right now, who ever heard of the Christians doing that? Anyway, dependent pentecost is the celebration of a thing from the second chapter of the book of acts that happened to that happened to occur on the day of vote acts. We've already referred to on this show but you can hear Doug's retelling of the whole gripping yarn episode one, Forty, nine, I'm sorry everybody and one fifty but this part happened at one, forty nine. Basically, what happened was that God's spirit descended on a group of Christ followers and they all spoke in foreign tongues and people from all over the world happened to be there and where amazed to hear these Galileo's able to speak their native fridge. Perfectly. Now, if there's one lesson that all the religious types should have learned over the two millennia since Jesus supposedly died, it should be that we don't take stuff like this literally. But Americans are new and every everything this country does is like a teenager who knows nothing but is convinced they've really got it all figured out and off they rushed to do it all way better than the rest of all the idiots so. Pentecostals started quote speaking in tongues There was of course, the problem of the spirit of God had not in fact, descended on them and they therefore, we're not able to actually speak a different language that they had never before encountered. This problem was quickly surmounted by revival tents being filled with the painfully embarrassing sound of nonsense syllables being blanchard at Breakneck Pace Alibaba Thomas John. If when? It's literally like that. Incidentally, if you check out the most recent episode of thank God I'm atheist, which is episode four, sixty one believe we actually talked about this phenomenon and in the show notes, there's a link to an amazing clip where a whole stage full of preachers instructed by a guy named Sid Roth who is an actual Jew for Jesus? Who He says to them all pray in tongues and they all income it just erupt into this bla-bla-bla nonsense. which comes to a head when one woman bedecked in a pink sequined blazer rises and gives a solo tongues performance that starts out. Okay. But then degenerates into Haha ha ha. Ha Ha ha and then she hears it and literally her hawes turned into laughter as she here's how stupid she herself sounds. It's amazing. Go check that out. I'm still triggered from the presidential debate. I don't think I need to hear people screaming and nonsense language Oh my God it's so weird. PENTECOSTAL ISM arose out of the revivalist movement and re and really gained traction in the early twentieth century. It's actually kind of cute early on. They actually thought that their Jim Jabir might be real and at least one important Guy Charles Fox power ham thought that he could send missionaries abroad and they wouldn't need to learn the language because they were already speaking. Oh That's fantastic. Cute Little Charles Fox. Knocks on your door. Takes Awhile it's like that moment on thirty rock when. Jon Hamm's character thinks he speaks French because he's so handsome. Nobody's told him. Anyway, despite what should have been obvious to everyone who saw it this shit took the fuck off Protestants all over the place. We're freeing their tongues for Jesus. Faith. healings had become a big crowd pleaser two. And since there was no internet to fact, check what the fuck was actually going on the credulous populace here abroad lapped this week and do Jesus Magic to Shit Up. By the nineteen sixties, people in the bigger Protestant denomination started to get jealous of all the crazy shit these pentecostals were doing. They didn't want to sit through. Boring old. Church with incense and Oregon Music while just down the road. There was a tent positively throbbing with rambunctious hooting and hollering. So they decided to get them some. This became the charismatic movement. Now, if you've met more than three charismatic Christians, you know that we're not talking about the kind of charismatic that means that people have compelling personalities. In. This case we're going back to the original Greek meaning of charisma, which is something like gift referring to the divine gifts of God. These gifts are things like the aforementioned tongues prophecy and healing though they tend to have less emphasis on tongues the pentecostals. Charismatic Christianity is interesting because it's not its own religion often more like a sidecar to your regular religion. It was adding augmented reality goggles to you're already crafted religious worldview. Now. Major names in other sects were signing on to the notion of Jesus magic guys like Oral Roberts and William. Brenham got into the game And all of this kind of made sense for Protestants they had a spa they had spent a few centuries after divorcing themselves from the all encompassing power of Rome crafting and re crafting their beliefs as they saw fit which was totally in line with these sort of every man is a priest notion that Martin Luther had championed. What made absolutely zero sense was a little later in the sixties win charismatic Catholic Movement started. Sixties in the nineteen sixties. The allure of personal importance was way too tempting for twentieth century sensibilities to let the Protestants have all the fun. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, seven. Group of apparently disgruntled. Catholics met at the Catholic Duquesne to remind myself how to pronounce that because it's spelled do quiz. Ni. Duquesne University. They met there for three day retreat there they talked about the book of acts and a book called the Cross and the switchblade brilliant yet. Yep I'm sure they probably about some other things that we bring up this podcast. Yeah, and probably, and presumably they they wanted how they wanted to be cool like all the pentecostals and charismatics whereas and the took us on that on that altar boy, right? Yeah exactly. So they tried out some of the goofball stuff and Lo and behold, they felt the spirit prays Jesus. so that crazy energy spread around duquesne like a California. Wildfire. Zun You're too young the professors William Story and Ralph Kiefer. Took this newfound zeal back to their Alma Mater. Notre Dame. Well like most recent more recent events notre, dame turned out to be a super spreader and the baffling notion of charismatic Catholicism took off really at Notre Dame of all places indeed. Don't go there if you don't want to catch either a dread disease or a apparently a crazy cultish new tongues. Right well, I'm going to cancel my trip to Notre Dame than. Yeah it's it's the it's the infection Irish. That was my honeymoon. It was there in South Bend Indiana that the people of praise began. In one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one about thirty people started meeting after mass and augmenting their stodgy old religious experience with fun new ways to pretend Jesus as real. They were led by to Grad Students Kevin Ranga Ranna ran again I'm not sure how to pronounce it. A Gene H in there. So I'm not sure which. And you know what happened to him when he lost his election. Ran Again. But There's the old Doug he's. Married him and Paul Selous who who had participated in some retreats connected to the Spanish Kerr CEO movement which I have no time to get into but we're basically What would happen if Tony Robbins were from Spain and focused on religion instead of business? And it seems to have been effective because it wasn't long until there were ton tens of thousands of people in the charismatic Catholic movement. You'd like you know you'd think that the larger Catholic community would totally reject this new lunacy out of hand but no. This was Vatican to Catholicism. This was more open more welcoming Catholocism. These were hip non-judgmental groovy. Catholics. They weren't gonNA harsh everybody's buzz. Pope Paul the sixth gave his blessing and they were off to the races. So. That's Amy Coney Barrett's deal she and her family are indeed Catholics but they are also members of people of praise. Which is what some folks are actually concerned about. So let's talk about. What do they actually believe? Why is anyone concerned just because Margaret Atwood wrote the handmaid's tale after she heard about charismatic Catholics that worries you somehow is that true? That is fucking true. It's it may not be people have praised, but it's one of the one of the offshoots of this of this movement. Really Twenty twenty is just so fucking crazy lake identity to know that. It's fucking legit and and they actually whatever the the group was that. She got this from used to call women, handmaidens or handmaid's, and they actually stopped the stop doing net after Atwood's book got popular. So There you go. I'm just GONNA call again, make daily call to the Canadian consulate to see if they have any openings, right? Yeah. It's it. We it's almost winter there though so maybe maybe we can hold out. Another day another blow job. That's what I say. That's what I've always said to. People have. So the people of praise are a A. Covenant. Community. That means that member makes covenant or vow or promise which is kept fairly secret but means that they are not just talking about a Bible Study Group you swear into this thing it's kind of like the masons only they allow women because somebody's got to be subservient. Am I right? The the Covenant is Pretty Boring for most of it actually, but it includes the following which may seem innocuous but has a very colty edge to it. Quote. We accept the order of this community, which is which the Lord is establishing with all the ministry gifts of the Holy Spirit especially with the foundational ministry gifts of Apostles Pastors Profits Teachers and evangelists. We agree to obey the direction of the Holy Spirit manifested in and through this these ministries in full harmony with the Church we recognize in the Covenant are unique relationship to one another and between the individual and the community we accept the responsibility for mutual care concern and ministry among ourselves. Now that sounds okay. But it and it goes on. But the main thrust is we are locking into this thing with each other and that's just for real. And the notion of obedience in that fray in that covenant. Began to Morph. It went from obedience to the Holy Spirit to. Maybe, you should be obedient to the leaders and suddenly the hierarchy formed. To that end, each member is assigned a head, who is a personal spiritual adviser like a human head. Purse Person But yes I thought she was a Cephalosporin she was going to. Exactly that not surprise me one bit that comes later. This person is deemed to be more spiritual alert than you than Thou and can therefore guide you in your decision making kind of like an AA sponsor. Sponsor right. But it gets a little intense members at the top of the chain were asked to quote fully submit their lives to the leaders called coordinators of the group, and they would then be, and then they would be the head for those below. It's like spiritual multi level marketing. Eventually, you have a whole downstream, it's great. All the people have praised meet weekly in a group. Then there are weekly men's meetings and women's meetings and weekly meetings with your head and I guess if you're somebody else's head, you meet with them. The whole environment is insanely high control. It's like they were part of a huge. They were part of a huge easy religion and thought. God, I wish this were cult. Don't you guys I wish this were a cult and the examples of Cultus are a kind of astounding. For. Example courtship. When a young man thinks, he might be ready to date. He goes to his head and they discuss whether he is in a financial and logical and spiritual position to marry. Then if they agree that that's a good idea, the man goes out and court some ladies until he finds one who responds well to his particular mating dance and plumage. nope. If that's peacocks. Sorry. When he finds a woman, he's interested in he consults with this head again about her and they decided if she's appropriate marriage material and then he buys her from his from her father, right? Right? No, he pops the question and then she has to go to her head and they discuss and then if all the heads agree they announce it at the next meeting and then they're engaged so. To say, no, you can't marry that person one, hundred percent what A. What a lovely courtship Yeah it's actually impossible to overstate how important and controlling this idea of headship their words not mine is with these people. It's everything to them and it's psychologically incredibly powerful even though the group will scream up and down the head is just an adviser and everyone is free to make their own decisions when people don't Jive with what they're with what they're assigned head is telling them. The whole community comes down on them. Headship is the whole ballgame for them. So if it fails the system fails and that can't be allowed to be the case so. It can't be left to be just this is an adviser. It's so much more than that. Now people have left this group a matter of fact in the beginning. Fairly. Early on just a couple of years into this. One of the main guys left and with him, and then that led to a whole group of others leaving. And this forced the sort of the head dude. To to give a whole talk and he basically said that they had what's called a quitting spirit which. Yes, right that's that's what it was. Note every fucking day now let me tell you right. But among them, this was a sign of pure. the commitment that these people make our as one former member described it. And objectively binding obligation in conscience that one cannot be abandoned without the agreement of the other parties involved and involved. Leaving works right exactly Oh. Okay. I guess I'm not leaving I'll stay. With you but I need a committee vote. Right exactly. So as much as they want us all to believe that this is a this is just adviser ship or this is just This is just Kind of a support group for Catholics or whatever that is not what this is. This is there are and I've seen it in articles all over the web, the talk about how not a big deal. This whole thing is, how could it be bad for somebody to have a spiritual mentor but no, that is not what we're talking about here. What we are talking about is someone is a group that is extremely controlling. And an individual someone that should by rights by your own sort of commitment to the group and your and a promise that you made a covenant that you've made this person has some control over you. Which? that. Is Pretty fucking concerning. For. A supreme. Court judge to say the least. Even. Look even just conservative Catholicism right is very problematic for reproductive rights I was just GonNa say that human rights for lgbtq rights. Women's rights, etc.. Okay, that's just bad enough I would even if she wasn't part of this, I would still feel completely religion is a choice wrote the the sect of your religion is a choice that's choices can be questioned she she is and she is all in on all of those issues she is. She has shown herself to be all in on all of those issues and Then, you add to that this layer of a very, and also this cult is extremely. Gender, roles and Obsessed. Extremely obsessed with Controlling each other and. You've got yourself a problematic little belief system well, someone WHO's made to judge people to uncle marks point I I I don't get to choose Supreme Court justices. So my my opinion may not be relevant but I would consider being a devout Catholic disqualifying. You know I mean like the and that The sounds orders of magnitude creepy you're weirder and more problematic than that. Yeah. What's yours? If you're an opus dei Catholic I think that's a huge problem right You Know Mitt Romney was rightly questioned about you know people brought this question when he was running for president, it's like well, you swear obedience to the to the Mormon Church Prophet and leadership. Way. Believe that God has a mouthpiece on earth. Yeah. What what if he comes to you and says, you have to do X. Yeah. Launch the nukes like like that was a legitimate question. It's like when does? Your you know the supreme. Court, justices are supposed to understand and interpret the laws that are passed. and. The and how they relate to the constitution and. Her Mentor I guess the person she looks up to I. Think she clerked for Manton Scalia right invention all new. Fake system of how does that which is? originalism which means the founding fathers thought whatever I'm thinking right now, right? Exactly. Right. It makes you wonder though you this. These are not irrelevant questions, right? Like who have you sworn fealty to and what have you sworn fealty to? Yeah you know. You're one of nine people who can decide the fate of the entire country you're not elected and you will die office. I, seem to remember that all news networks spent weeks questioning Obama's. PROXIMITY TO JEREMIAH? Wright. Right. Right. To to his I don't know what kind of religion it was his Protestant. Pastor whoever the guy was. Yeah. So I guess it was okay. Then you're Pearl clutching is meaningless. I don't know what's the difference between Barack Obama an Antonin Scalia and and Barrett. I don't have capably finger on it. we'll. We'll sort it out. We'll figure it out at some point surely. All right well. She you know. Up until a couple of days ago, I was writing this as though she was definitely one hundred percent going to be our next supreme. Possible. Who it may be the virus that has some say in the matter now but. It's it's still likely that she's going to be the next supreme well. You know what? The press is calling the Rose Garden a rose, garden event where she was introduced and apparently it was a super spreader event. They're now calling at the Rose Garden massacre right hand know potentially three Republican members of the Judiciary Committee are going to have to be in quarantine. So doing Lindsey, Graham, and Mitt. And Mitch. McConnell of already said, they'll do it virtually. Yeah I mean, which is the first time they've wanted to do anything you know what I mean like. Did they talk it's so God damn fit the president who nominated her may be on life support when the vote happens to. That are supposed to vote for maybe on life support and the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Lindsay Graham is very likely to lose his election. United but. Not, not to go off on this tangent, but they they've got the taste for Roe v way in a Row v Wade in their mouth right now. Their whole slew of things the gone right up. No. No question about it. I mean there's any anyway. That's it. Look are are are only GonNa get better from here. So who? Des. Dan. Now. All right. Well friends. That's it for this week's uneven show. Indeed Hey. We'd love to hear from you send us an email how to how to heretic dot com if you have. You know if you have a sidebar cult, the that goes along with your religion. Or if you know the If you know that a cow doesn't have a penis and whatever you thought was the urine is something else. You can leave us a voicemail about that ninety, three two, which is nine, hundred, hundred, four, six, hundred, ninety six, and you can also tell me about it on twitter through the tears and by the way that's not urine and always thanks to our patrons. Yes and thank you, cody Laden for levitating the show and thanks to all of you. Dear friends for tune in on in my friends.

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Free Talk Live 2021-02-09

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

2:01:34 hr | 3 weeks ago

Free Talk Live 2021-02-09

"It's it's free talk live and we've apparently had live mike entire time so hopefully we haven't said anything a brought to you tonight. Just oria in bondi studio so that's fun anyway. Today's news the most interesting thing i've seen. Is this iranian cleric. Who is claiming that the covid nineteen vaccine is turning people into homosexuals now. Obviously there's no truth to this and it's just more of the the iranian regime's anti-homosexuality anti western medicine sort of thing but it's interesting nonetheless. It comes to us from the new york. Post is just. It's just fascinating. What they will just make up on the spot with no evidence behind it whatsoever. Of course it's not that different from the american government. But it's hard to get america's to admit that is a cleric in the government. What's the cleric a. I don't know the exact definition of a cleric has seems to be what they call their priests in iran. As far as i know. I i had no idea i mean. According to wikipedia a cleric is also a priest or bishop in dungeons and dragons. I don't know what that means as far as what it means in iran. Sort of priestly person. But the maybe it's like a state. Priest state is kind of a religion. It is absolutely a religion so a cleric in the iranian regime told his followers that the covid nineteen vaccination turns people into homosexuals. Which is punishable by death and iran. I think the top cleric in iran. If i recall correctly a boss to brazilian made the outrageous claims tuesday on the social media platform telegram. According to the jerusalem post he said don't go near those who have had the covid vaccination they have become homosexuals to breezy and who lives in the religious capital of and whose followers referred to him as ayatollah has a history of promoting bigotry and false information about western medicine last year. This tell the -tarian burned harrison's manual of medicine in a videotape ceremony claiming that islamic medicine had made such books irrelevant. According to a radio free. Europe radio liberty broadcasts service like other clerics the region also to breezy and relates. This is clearly translated. He relates all of these shortcomings to sexuality said a dissident the clerics in iran or suffering from a lack of knowledge and humanity actually his goal of spreading nonsense is to try to scare people out of getting vaccinated while the leader of the regime and other officials got the pfizer vaccination and they don't provide it to the people with the excuse that they don't trust the west hold on so the regime leaders got the vaccine. But they're also saying it makes you gay. He's alleging that they got the vaccine. Whole government of iran is okay. It sounds like they may undo their death penalty. Laws ended by dash by seeking to scare the public and not getting vaccinated against one thousand. Nine years fueling the pandemic and putting lives at risk tatchell added. Now tuchel is a property. Yeah sorry gay. Rights advocate even iran. Or is he outside. He was talking to an israeli paper so presumably outside of iran. Yeah he'd be a teredo enough to stay in. Iran gay rights activists in iran. Yeah by the way. There's a guy in our telegram chatroom that we've got a telegram free talk live chat that's associated with the freetalklive like channel. I don't know if you've seen this yet. Yes and people can comment there and stuff like that right. There's a guy from iran who's a regular listener. Free talk live which is pretty cool. That is cool. yeah well hopefully. He's listening tonight. Same sex sexual activity is punishable by execution. In iran and thousands of gay people have been put to death since the iranian revolution in nineteen. Seventy nine well into thousand and nineteen and iranian. Foreign minister defended those entra atrocities to germany's public broadcasting network saying our society has moral principles and we live according to these principles. These are moral principles concerning the behavior of people in general and that means that the law is respected and the law is obeyed. What exactly is immoral about two people who love one another. I don't know you'd had excuses. I know what the bible the bible doesn't really explain it either states. It and says i can't do that. I don't know why does it even really say that. Or is that just a translation of the bible says it does say that the old testament very clearly says that like there's bad is repeatedly but there is some dispute about whether or not that's actually in the original hebrew tax and whether it got added and or mistranslated evidently if you ask these people who make that claim they were referring to men having sex with young boys as being immoral and not just all case expert translators either misunderstood or misunderstood. Yeah so that that could have been the origin of that. I don't know. I can't verify any of these claims because i don't read hebrew and even if i did i have better things to do with my time to find out what this fictional book says about gay people but in two thousand eighteen in two thousand nineteen iran executed at least nine children. Evidently as us ratcheted up sanctions after accusing the country of violating a nuclear agreement. That's pretty much it on that. There's not much more to say about it. It's just insane from the iranian leadership. It's not that different from donald trump and some of the extravagant claims that he's made but americans won't see that what does he make. What extravagant claims just curious. I can't think of any off the top of my head. My okay but he has certainly made. Extravagant claims almost never no sense gay people to death though he hasn't said no absolutely not. I mean that's not an extravagant claim. That's a grotesque. A nation of a statement extravagant claim would be something like. Oh yeah we didn't land on the moon or whatever you know just something nonsensical that trump believes he was re tweeting. Some cunanan people at some point so he certainly made some ridiculous allegation man. I gotta say. I miss trump's tweets. I do too. I don't think he's okay. He was entertaining. Yeah and joe biden. So far has not been entertaining late. I don't care about what they're doing in dc. But i am curious. Like what would trump be saying right now if he still had access to social media about apparently they're like putting him on trial now in the senate so that whole part of the impeachment procedure has begun so we don't get to hear what he has to say. His his lawyer came out and said that he's not getting due process so we know he'd be saying that this isn't due process. I i haven't followed the impeachment closely. I know it's happening. But i do find it either. I find it here. A bit scary. How the social media networks and the major tech companies of the united states just came together all at once to effective to effectively ban the sitting president from the internet. Yep that'd be pretty wild. I mean he can't contact us not. I don't have anything that i want to hear but call in. That's true six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty if donald trump is out there listening. Give us a call. We've said we've got room for him on the free. Talk live social. I mean if if don wants to sign up over social dot freetalklive dot com. He's going to be surrounded by a bunch of libertarians. Because that's the bulk of who has signed up for social dot freetalklive dot com but we will not censor his posts. Nope he is he. If he signs up its social dot freetalklive dot com. And you can too if you want. We also have a matrix surfer that people can find at chat dot freetalklive dot com. Which is like a decentralised. Federated discord alternative. Yeah kind of poly centric. I think is probably better better term but yeah it's also decentralized that it's not like corporate like discord in other news The bundy family is in the news again. This time militias in general have been in the news lately revolutionaries all of that because the leftists are back in charge in dc and every time they get in control. They always tried out the so-called domestic terrorists and start to see the news media focus in on militias and quote unquote domestic terrorism. Which is what they're labeling anybody. That was inside. The capitol building on january. Sixth the month ago what they've also included libertarians in their list of potential domestic terrorists despite the fact that libertarians adhere to the non aggression principle. This is true although they have a right to be concerned. Because some of the libertarians out there believed that it is adhering to the non aggression principle to go out and shoot cops in the streets so i mean it just depends on you. Know how they consider that their principal and how they want to put it to use you. You have a point but these militia groups. What's going on with them Bundy seems to be at cliven. Bundy i think is his name. Is that correct. This is actually ammon bundy. Cliven is his father. Okay they are the you can probably tell the story but at the night. Yeah there were. There was an issue. I don't know if it was not quite a decade ago but maybe twenty thirteen Cliven bundy had a ranch. Probably still does out in nevada and they were cancelled their catalan. This ranch and there were like ranch. Backed up to some eero blame management lands and they were letting the cattle graze on the blm lands not of land management and. They didn't like that and the government came after For whatever reason. I forgot all details anyway. There was a big standoff. Like an actual arm standup i think. Fbi building or a federal building taken over. It was really part of the story of six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty. This is free talk live. It's free talk five. Talk radio that you control in call in. Talk about whatever's on your mind at six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty with you tonight. It's aria funny and ian and bitcoin dot com for those watching it. It's a it's the best place for winning about cryptocurrency and as i was care carelessly getting out for those watching bitcoin. It's been a fascinating story. It's not too late to get into it. Head on over to bitcoin dot com. Click on get started to learn all that you need to know about cryptocurrency and bitcoin as well as bitcoin cash. There's all sorts of information. There's and let me really don't have any excuse for ignoring this any longer just a few weeks ago. Bitcoin was at thirty three thousand after a crash and it was dying again. And then it's pushing fifty thousand today so who knows what it will do next. But based on what recent patterns. I'm gonna say now still a good time to buy or if you are knowledgeable user. Visit news dot. Bitcoin dot com to get the latest headlines. Everything that's relevant to you. Bitcoin dot com one of my favorite websites. Go for crypto currency needs in general elon. Musk apparently thought it was a good time to buy. Didn't he. by one point five billion dollars for on behalf of tesla earlier this week. He did today and it seems that tesla wants to accept bitcoin as payment for its vehicles. Very exciting it is. I can't wait to see it for more companies. I think that there was a story a long time ago. I mean i. I recall several years ago. Hearing that tesla at least some dealers were accepting it really. So even if the mother company wasn't accepting at the time. I think there were some of the dealers that were well. Hopefully we'll see more and you know chevrolet and all of these other companies beginning to accept crypto currency. Hey maybe even mcdonalds one day will accept bitcoin. You pay pal just came on board late last year. Your tesla coming on board test. One of the top five corporations in the united states as far as their market cap is concerned. So that's bigger than walmart. Tesla says they're gonna take crypto. That is actually. I mean it's it's not big in the same way in that wal got way more locations and more people work for it and that sort of thing but as far as a major company accepting bitcoin. That's probably the largest announcement we've seen so far excellent. I hope it continues. Because that's only going to drive the value of bitcoin up because it's becoming more and more useful it is even though it's not that useful in general because we're going to buy a fifty thousand dollar car a fifty dollar transaction fee. Isn't that pick no big deal. Yeah no doubt about that. But it's it's still disappointing to see how just expensive these transaction fees are. They were twenty dollar fees yesterday on bitcoin for next for the what they call the next block which for listeners. That don't know that's to get your bitcoin transaction processed and confirmed within the next ten minutes or so. That's what it costs. twenty. Not steve where they going up in. Popularity does that mean that the fees might go lower get higher. They're going to likely get higher unless the bitcoin programmers decide to do something to actually fix their network which they don't seem to have any plan whatsoever to do so because they're making too money off of it so this sucks for for bonnie because she just got paid in some bitcoin for doing some activism. I think it was not this past weekend but the weekend prior. We went to the governor's house for another protest where they arrested a footloose frank for being. Footloose i guess talking. You talked to the police and they arrested him for it. That videos up over it freaking dot com but some anonymous benefactor was contributing bitcoin. Anyone that showed up to this protests. They were giving fifty dollars worth of bitcoin. Well i mean that's cool. And i think that's a really cool thing for that person to do and and bonnie's it was her first Bitcoin that she had received and she. I gave her some bitcoin cash like a few months ago when we first met. Whoever this person is gave her actual bitcoin so fifty dollars worth the btc. Bitcoin fifty bitcoins to nobody. And now it's what it. What was it the last time you looked at it. Like sixty bucks worth sixty eight. It's gone up quite a bit in just the last week and twenty five percent for her to use us. That's the problem. If she ever has something she wants to use this for. Well sorry you really only have forty dollars worth of useful bitcoin because it might cost you twenty dollars a fee just to send it somewhere. Now you can send it for less than twenty twenty twenty. Just the next block fee. If you don't care when the thing confirms you could probably get the fee down to eight bucks but still that's not cheap and then going that low below the next block fee it might not actually get confirmed it might sit out there in the men poll for two weeks and then get back to your wallet eight bucks. It's not going to sit out there for two weeks at least not not right now but nonetheless. That's a hefty fee. it is. Yeah let's go to the phones. Who got scott calling from florida scott. You're on free talk. Live good evening. Aria bonnie and scott. What's what's on what's on. My mind is People americans losing track of the facts that are there are certain entities the trying to push the united states into war with iran. And that's the next one that's looming on the horizon and That up party primarily is a pack. The american israel public affairs committee aka the jewish poverty which which got us into war with iraq and afghanistan. Now they're working diligently very hard to get us embroiled in a war with iran and israel to here on the scene it on tv. The podcast that israel threatened that if if if it goes to war with iran That it expects the united states to To follow believe that. I did not know but that's not a surprise. I mean given that the united states federal government regardless of whether it's republican or democrat seems to walk hand in hand with that particular nation state. Really oh yes. And the reason why e and why does just because our congressmen and senators are frankly petrified evade pack because if they ever dared to oppose apec they are afraid of a appearing as anti semitic and hence will lose their seats. Nine arrack democrats have been doing some pretty messed up things to people of jewish heritage lately including not allowing them at some. Lgbt pride parades and things like that. So the democrats because they're these insane social justice warriors who have concluded that jews hate muslims and they've taken the side of the muslims and that particular dispute their friendlier. They viewed the muslims as being the greater sufferer in the equation. So that's the one they side with. The jews are bad because the jews hate the muslims. So they're just as racist as anyone else literally racist by saying that. Oh well all jews. Such and such hate muslims or whatever even though that's obviously not true because jewish people are different. They don't all have the same beliefs scott. Why don't you think it's a war with china that is on the horizon That to your right that that. The answer's obvious. I mean they'd be insane to go to war with china the us federal government. Up against china. I mean you're talking about two world superpowers. They're not that stupid. They're not going to go and do that. I mean it's going to be a challenge. It was a challenge for them to go up against afghanistan which was a bunch of people running around hiding in caves. Going up against iran would be a challenge on its own going up against china. That is not something. You're gonna wanna take on mission. Yeah i just wanna say that. We've we've already lost thousands of american soldiers in iraq and afghanistan and to lose and this is going to be like iraq and afghanistan. If we got into embroiled in a war with iran baked no mistake it could easily spread into world war thirty. And it's not worth getting. American boys killed in wars. At america's you know has more been to any other country in the world. This was all part of the complex to get another controlled the portals cut you off. Thank you so much for the call. I mean none of us here disagree. We don't want a worldwide. i read now but what. What does the american government going to do. It's hard to say. And i don't think they've been beating the drums of war with iraq frequently enough lately for that to be a realistic possibility. Maybe you think so. Six zero three two eight three s- looking for a great real estate investment. Consider new hampshire which is ground zero for the liberty movement. Your first call should be to mark worden from porcupine. Real estate is more than just a real estate agent. Easier new hampshire concierge. Where are the best places to live. Do you want farm city the burbs or forest. Do you want a duplex or multifamily buildings. So that renter's pay your mortgage their homes in all price ranges in new hampshire and mark and help with financing to invest in liberty and property. Mark gordon can help dot com It's free talk live. Talk radio that you control six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty as the paula. Line six zero three two eight three six one six zero with you tonight. It's arjen and bonnie and we're getting into the story from the almond. Bundy is his name. Ammon ammon who is organizing militia groups or something of that nature. Is this a nevada Believe he is either in nevada. Orrin utah. i'm not sure where he calls home as i was mentioning earlier. And then bundy is the son of cliven bundy or one of the sons of cliven bundy. That was in the news most of the decade ago for having a standoff with the federal government over the bureau of land management then. A few years later ammon bundy and some of his crew went and took over the malheur. Federal wildlife refuge of these events were years oregon. Yes we're years apart. Believe it was twenty sixteen when they did the malheur wildlife refuge takeover That actually resulted in one. Man being shot to death by The police in that particular situation and it was fairly dramatic and pretty interesting and outrageous. What went on then so. We don't follow the bundy family very closely. But from what. I've heard of them. They sound at least occasionally like fairly principled. Libertarians they support black lives matter and other cool teens code. Expect principled people to support good to know. I'm glad to hear that now. I don't follow them closely either but i. I am aware that they've been active in this sort of anti masking pro freedom facial freedom. Whatever you wanna call it movement and now the los angeles times is reporting out of idaho which may be where. He's based these days two dozen demonstrators pressed against the emergency room door screaming to be let in show us a law. They chanted let grandma out one shouted. They had descended on legacy salmon creek medical center in vancouver washington the evening of the twenty nine to protest the quarantine of gail meyer. Seventy four year old patient. Who had refused to take a test for the corona virus so they forced her to quarantine against her will. Apparently police in riot gear guarded. Entrances as the activists who authorities said. Were armed insisted that ms meyer was being held against her will acclaim. the hospital. denied myers forty nine year. Old daughter satin an anti mask activists as her caregiver had summoned the demonstrators foot soldiers in a rapidly expanding network called people's rights with the tap of the thumb on a smartphone members can call a militia like they'd call an uber and stage a protest within minutes. That sounds like a pretty cool piece of software. Yeah it sounds a lot like cell four one one so i'm curious to know what it is that they're using did say that they made it. I don't know anything about the software. Actually this is the first. I've gotten this deep into this story. So whether the la times is going to tell us what that is or not. I don't know Maybe somebody could look up people's rights. I know nobody. Our co host has been talking about this. He's been you know talking about connecting the ammon bundy group with like the new hampshire liberty community. You know the black lives matter group to try to bring people together of somewhat disparate belief systems but all of whom are being opposed by the government and try to bring them together sort of on the same page to oppose the government. I don't know how far he's gotten with that But in this case behind the organization is a familiar name ammon bundy. He's best known. As the leader of the two thousand sixteen occupation of the malheur national wildlife refuge in oregon a deadly forty one day standoff between federal agents and militants who rejected the federal government's authority over public lands across the west now he seized on the backlash against corona virus restrictions as an opportunity to start a new movement since last march when he launched people's rights which their website is people's rights dot org which he describes as a neighborhood watch on steroids. The has attracted tens of thousands of members sponsored more than fifty demonstrations across the country. Dispatching gun-toting toting activists to the homes of politicians health agency managers and even a police officer who arrested a protester expert to track extremists. Say the network has significant overlap. Well he's pretty hard core. But i don't know if i'd call him in emmett extremist. Well they love to call anybody. That's not pro government in extremist. Sure to the scary word right to to them. Anyone who is not in favor of the state is in extremist. If you're in favor of freedom every issue every time you're an extremist and you know to me it's not extreme to be in favor of peace which is ultimately what we're in favor of it would be insane not to be and there's plenty of people who are insane. I would agree. They have to be to actively. I mean there are people out there who actively want war with china or iran or russia or venezuela or any other countries. How insane do you really have to be to want a war with someone truly insane. In this case they don't want war they just want to be left alone seems but they're being dragged in of course with white supremacist groups claiming the l. a. times claiming they have quote significant overlap with white supremacist groups and other far-right organizations in that his whipped up paranoia and rage risking the lives of hospital workers health officers politicians and others in the crosshairs. It doesn't sound like they did that because they banged on some doors and shouted some stuff. I don't think anyone life. The no one. I think what they're saying that when they say they're risking their lives. That means that they aren't wearing masks. So that now is a threat to someone else's life by these people's viewpoint by people like the author here at the time and people like dennis guttered in new hampshire who has been threatening people with shooting them if they come near him without a mask on. I put it up because that may be really curious whether or not i was remembering correctly about. I'm in bundy. M black lives matter and it turns out i was. He stands in support of black lives matter effort today fund police. So i'm curious how the la times has decided there's overlap between this guy who stands a support. A black lives matter all supremacists all there has to be for them to claim. There's overlap is for one guy who's a white supremacist. To show up in a chat room for people's rights to remember that when the when the media starts linking everything and anything and everything to white supremacists. There's overlap on free talk live. we had. Chris cantwell as one of our talk. Show host. Now mind you before. He became a racist and when he became a racist. We kicked him off the air as a talk show host but they're still quote unquote overlap. Because we had him on and he was on free. Talk live after becoming a racist. That's true and we didn't ban him from the show entirely because we're freetalklive and we will let any a whole call in with whatever viewpoint they want to just makes himself look bad when he talks so why not let them still calls the show when he can. It's been a while but yes and we just had scott the biggest call in tonight. So i mean there's overlap with whatever he is whatever you wanna call that antisemitic would be i think an accurate description so they drag this through they drag the groups like this through the mud as much as they possibly can because they don't wanna actually talk to them and ask them questions they don't want to actually give this guy the opportunity to express himself because the l. a. times like most media outlets is one hundred percent favor of the state sure whatever the state decree religious apple whatever the state religion decrees which has wear a masks respect authorities. And that's not what the bundy's are known for or any of these militia groups. The existence of these militia groups has always been stated to be to defend ourselves from aggression by the government. I don't think has ever suggested there for anything else. Yeah and i don't know if people's rights is particularly a militia group exactly sounds like it's a protest organization. That's way it sounds. I don't know if you've pulled up their website. I did but you join over in order to access just about anything. I'm going to pull it up on my phone and take a look at it. You have a telegram. So there's that we have the potential for multiple malheur in multiple states in that any moment they could bring hardened far right. Activists often heavily armed into any one event this according to devin burghart the executive director for the institute for research and education on human rights. So then they really don't like the idea that these people are armed number one. That really seems to scare The folks i imagine it would scare the l. a. Time you spend. It doesn't give me any pause whatsoever. I feel safer when people around me are heavily armed indeed especially if they know what they're doing yes with With guns in october the seattle based organizations and the montana who writes network published in investigation. That found bundy had rapidly. Expanded people's rights by using his core. Far right paramilitary supporters with the mass base of new activists radicalized in protest of coronavirus restrictions. So he's outgrown. His group is good for him for that. I'm gonna look into it during the break as well. You can find out more about people's rights dot org let us know what you think about it though is he just organizing protests or is he actually planning piece militias six zero three two three six one. Six zero spreads talk live. Talk radio that you control as we were talking about earlier. We'll let anyone talk about anything about our how racist it is will argue with you. Know if you call an say things. That are incorrect or immoral. But we'll let you talk. I think racism is immoral. I would agree six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty is that columbine that six zero three two eight three six one six with you. Tonight it's aria bonnie and and we're talking about the bundy's who are in the music end now being linked to white supremacist overlapped between white supremacist. And fairly absolutely. I did look into these people rights organization and sadly it doesn't seem that they use an app. It looks like they just use a web interface. Oh so it's all done on their reporting where to gather and what's happening. It's cool that there are now five people in southwestern new hampshire who have signed up really and they're very privacy friendly guy you have to have signal in order to receive your coach to create your account neat and they have telegram which is always good and i. It's got a messaging system that i have looked into is supposedly encrypted as well just sending messages to other users so have to say so far. I'm impressed in it. Sounds like if they won an app they should contact nobody and find a way of implementing cellphone one into this. I know that nobody our co host had had the intention of reaching out to that group. So i don't know what status he has reached out to them. I think he wants to apt to be like in a usable state. 'cause we inherited for listeners. That don't know sell for on. One is a an app that was created. probably twenty fifteen by actually a listener. Freetalklive virgil the duva. And he did an amazing job at making this great little simple easy to use emergency alerts app where you can have your friends get the app and then You can all sort of create what they call cells These aren't terrorist cells. There peace peace sells but the idea is to have these cells of people that you know maybe one for your family one for your friends or whatever you can put them. You can have as many of these things as you want. And so then the thing is happening to you. That's bad you know your house catches on fire. Someone's having a medical emergency the cops pull you over. You know whatever it is. That's going on. you can send an alert. That goes out to the cells that you choose and it's an amazing app that has been used for a long time here in new hampshire by the activists community here in in too much success. Unfortunately virgil came into some tough personal times late last year and he wasn't able to kind of keep up the app and these sorts of things need to be kept up. You have to like date with your goals. Dates got update a thing. So you can't just like release the app and just let it be you to like take care of it and so he wasn't able to do that anymore. And the current version of the app that people can find working depends. So if you're on it should work fine for you if you're on android there's a new version that's going to becoming out hopefully as soon as sometime later this week. We're in the process right now of trying to figure out what to do to get this thing online. There's a what's new required. So nobody's in the midst of writing that But we're close. We're close to actually having some of what we would call showstopper level bugs fixed with cell phone once the version i'm using i had to download from some third party app store because it was delisted from google for not being updated. Yeah and i don't know if it ever got updated get realistic. But it wasn't fixed at the time so it's going to be fixed but it had the fix hasn't been uploaded so we will let you know when that happens. So that's what i'm saying like. Nobody's probably not banging down and mondays door because the isn't quite ready for primetime once it is. That's definitely something that he intends to reach out. I look forward to beta testing. Yeah absolutely well. There's actually a special group for that. So remind me later i can. I can drive in there so back to the story here from the los angeles times where they're trying to smear and then bundy by suggesting that he is associated with Right wing racist groups even though he's personally in favour of as you mentioned black lives matter and defunding the police. Which are i mean. Generally white supremacists like the police because generally police are white supremacists. That's they have their origins. That's true You mean catching slaves the police. Yeah that's right so according to l. a. times dot com. The investigators looked into the group which is called people's rights their website people's rights dot org. They found the network had twenty thousand members in sixteen states in an interview late last month near his home in idaho. Bundy claimed it had grown to almost fifty thousand people in thirty five states last the la times realize that the more stories like this they write the more people sign up for people's rights dot. Org i don't know but don't tell them because this is good last fall. Facebook removed an undisclosed number of people's rights pages from its platform. Deeming the network a militarized social movement. Well now i know. I'm interested because facebook saying it's bad than it must be worth looking at it so far. Nothing i've seen on here is bad. I mean they basically asked the same thing that sell for one s you know when the police show up or when you need help you're going to call your friends because your friends won't shoot you. They ask almost literally the same question here. So who will you contact when your rights are threatened. You will call your neighbors. Yeah they're like less likely to shoot you almost entirely unlikely to shoot you. Bundy said his soul cause was defending freedoms guaranteed under the constitution. Even for lgbtq people in black lives matter activists whose views he may oppose now again. That's not a quote from bundy. That's just what the l. a. Times said he never said. I'm curious now what his on. Lgbt people are. I mean he's probably a right wing conservative. But i don't know i've never talked to the guy. He's very libertarian. Actually did we talk to him. I think we actually did talk. To one of the bundy's i may have talked tamin bundy in the past honestly. But it's been a very long time so going on here. He said he never supported. President trump and he didn't vote in the last two presidential elections in two thousand sixteen. He was in prison awaiting trial in this past november. He didn't see a point so obviously he's not your typical if he's a conservative. He ain't your typical now. He is definitely closer to libertarian. Based on everything i've seen. He has conservative in contending the twenty or the kobe nineteen death. Toll is massively exaggerated. He said that trump should have worked hard churches and businesses open nonetheless. He encouraged his followers to go to washington for the now infamous january sixth rally to distribute leaflets in display people's rights banners to recruit more members. He did say that. He condemned the siege on the capital. Was that because it was pointless and it didn't achieve anything or it was just some some angry republicans role playing as protesters. Apparently he was also arrested. According to a photograph here in this article in the idaho state house in boise on august twenty six of last year was arrested and wheeled out in an office chair or what appears to be a wheelchair here so maybe doing a little civil disobedience. It looked like not sure what that was about. Bundy is carrying out a family tradition. He is the fourth of fourteen children in a mormon family. Grew up on a nevada rancher. Seventy four year old father cliven became a hero to extreme libertarians. In the west wing. Extreme libertarian that just sounds cool when they say it like that. Extreme libertarian. Extremist libertarian the when he stopped paying grazing fees in nineteen ninety-three claiming his family had ancestral rights to run its cattle on public land and the government's ownership claims violated the constitution and in bundy left the ranch as a young man. I for minnesota for two years of mormon mission service and then to southern utah university later moving to phoenix where he ran a truck repair business for fourteen years in two thousand fourteen. He stood with militias. That rallied behind his father's 'cause when fbi agents arrived at the nevada ranch with a court order to confiscate the family's cattle the government backed down to avoid bloodshed raising the family stature in far right circles in the part of the storm right. Yeah i thought. They said he was libertarians. That was his fans but that's what they said. The media loves make libertarian. Seem like right wingers. That's what they like you. They they want to try to make libertarian. Same even more far-right than anyone else. Even though the reality of it is is libertarians. Agree with right wingers on some things and left-wingers on other things. It's embarrassing what what part i don't want people to think i'm a right winger. I agree unfortunately my way to make them think. I also am the chairman of the republican committee. Which is a whole other issue entirely. But i've also been a democrat and run for for governor. So i get called a leftist a lot to. I'll do whatever. I need to do to get the ideas of liberty out basically according to this now the thing. They're not mentioning here. Oh no they do mention it. Okay so an important point about the original bundy story is charged. A bunch of these people in the bundy ranch situation. And weren't they all acquitted. Almost all of them were acquitted except for the ones that took plea deals at. This is why you don't take the plea. You really shouldn't the next year bundy. His wife moved to emmet idaho. Which is the farming town turned bedroom community outside of boise. He said that god had soon called him support. Dwight him in junior and his son steven oregon ranchers sentenced to prison for setting fires on federal lands and in january of two thousand sixteen. He led an armed group that seized headquarters the headquarters of the malheur. Federal wildlife refuge demanding. The government relinquish ownership in free. The hammett's did they do so. Of course that's tragic but still effort man. That's hard core taking over federal building. They did and they occupied it for like forty something days more on this story when we get back six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty. What do you think is he just a troublemaker. Is he an anarchist. What is he is he out there trying to. Maybe even one hundred six zero three two eight three six one six zero. This is free talk. Live bitcoin dot. Com is the best source for learning about crypto currency. Go there now. Click on get started at the top of the page. Once you do that. You'll find a cornucopia of information neatly organized for your needs if you're a knowledgeable crypto checkout news. Bitcoin dot com where you can get the latest headlines. Bitcoin dot com is your source for buying currency getting wallet up mining trading and all the latest crypto currency news all in a slick and easy to use website all put together by the best minds in the business to teach you about cryptocurrency. Bitcoin dot com. A talk live top radio that you control six zero three two eight three six point six zero dollars. Follow mind at six zero. Three two eight three sixty one sixty with tonight. Is aria bonnie ian and double masking for the time being as per some experts recommendations says this person on twitter suggested earlier that i you know just a simple search for double masking on twitter and this was actually been armani suggestion. I just pass it along to you. Former freetalklive co host. Who moved to sipe pan last year. He's been just on it with some really interesting twitter posts and this whole double masking thing is truly truly like religious zealotry. Yeah i had to stop at this one. Just share it with people on the eb as per some experts recommendations doesn't even know why she's putting onto masses just because quote. Some expert told her to truly truly sad. But that's not really what we're talking about here to know. i'm. I'm sure we'll get into it at some point. I want to get back to the bundy story. Because i find that far more encouraging for the future of freedom than do these idiots putting onto mass for some reason. I well somebody else did it. So they're going to do it too. Yeah someone some authorities said so so okay But anyway the ammon bundy. I did check by the way we interviewed ryan bundy which is one of the brothers of and bundy's so in the past this was in two thousand fourteen after the wildlife that was before the wildlife refuge situation. But after the cliven bundy oka standoff. Sony listeners Just tuning in ammon is the son of cliven bundy. And he's the guy who led the wild wildlife refuge Situation in two thousand sixteen. Where a. I a couple dozen people this federal property and it was in the middle of wintertime. So it wasn't like they took over an active like occupied site. It was shut down for the winner. Okay and they took that over. And then according to the story here at the los angeles times the oregon ranchers are sorry. The so bundy led this group in two thousand sixteen. That sees the headquarters of the malheur refuge. Bundy was arrested during a traffic. Stop outside of the refuge and eventually tried on weapons and conspiracy charges a militant who fled. The stop was shot and killed that. That man had a name. I forget what it was Offhand just referring to him as a militant By the way the man who fled the stop was not a danger to anyone. He did not shoot at anyone but the cops murdered him right there. They're running away. That's correct in a startling verdict. In october of two thousand sixteen bundy and other defendants were acquitted by jurors who found the federal prosecutors had failed to make their case. Wow yeah it was an amazing verdict. A series of verdicts more than one is. There's some documentary about this. Because it's good question. I don't know The families aura of invincibility only grew a judge declared a mistrial in a criminal conspiracy case against bundy his brother ryan who interviewed and their father for the two thousand fourteen nevada ranch standoff saying government lawyers had suppressed evidence the cattle outside of bunkerville nevada continue to graze on public land despite more than one million in unpaid fees. Bundy kept a low profile. Back in idaho where he managed rental properties and restored vintage vehicles with his children the pandemic and resistance to the government telling people what to do set the stage for his return to activism. I love it. You can't keep a good activist down nope you know. Once you've once you've stood up for freedom you don't ever want to cower again. Yeah once you've told the state no you want to keep telling it no. That's right in march because that is what freedom ultimately is is the freedom to say no and be respected in your choice because we can say no and they'll put you in jail cell. But in his case he actually was able to say no and they didn't put him in a jail cell because on juries actually backed him up which is amazing So in march he gathered several dozen supporters in a warehouse that he owns in idaho in his first public act. The group defied republican governor brad. Little stay at home directive and held an easter service for about sixty people now by the way at the same time we were doing. some public. Acts here in new hampshire and we have not gotten the same media coverage now to be fair. We didn't have as many people. Didn't we go to an easter service. Actually you and. I don't know if it was easter but we did go to a church service. I don't remember when it was. It was too late in the year to be easter. but we did nightcap. So when the governor here in new hampshire chris. New created his so-called stay at home order. We went out the same night the the very night it went into effect. That's correct we went out. We were literally there a minute. After it went into effect like at the exact same time we were out partying with open containers in central square. And we did it for thirty six weeks in a row and only recently stopped because it's like seven degrees and centuries of snow everywhere right now. Presumably when it's warmer will reap. Hopefully we won't have to return. But i'm sure nightcap will return if only because it was a good time was a damn good. I went to a new fund. That's right just one. Was it just the one. I just went. Well you'll have to come back to more. Because i suspect there will be a demand to bring it back This year so anyway. I went and held a church service. Which can people are being told not to do this in the same month. Police arrested sarah brady and anti vaccine activists for allegedly trespassing during an anti lockdown protests at a playground closed due to corona virus restrictions. That's we've had something similar happen here. lady in Concord was arrested not at the playground but later on several months later for taking her kids to a playground. That was closed. Why did they arrest her several months later. And what did they arrest her for. I don't recall. i think it was disorderly. Okay i think her name is rochelle. She actually was at our new year's eve party. Oh as a matter of fact she was the one wearing. The tide is shirt and she was doing some dancing. So bundy publicized. The address of the officer who arrested ms brady and let about forty people to outside of his home a tactic. The governor called disgusting. But i fully support. They picked up this lady at her home. That's right the one we're talking about anyway. These government bureaucrats think that they should just be able to keep their jobs separate from their home lives. They think that we should respect the idea that they should have privacy and their family lives in their personal homes and so on and so that their off duty after five o'clock in the afternoon i will allow that if their laws will stop going into effect when they're at home right when they're like. Oh no. I'm not the governor now. I'm just chilling with my found. Now okay then. Your laws don't apply right now. As soon as they stop arresting people in their homes as soon as they stop reporting people's lives by arresting peaceful people for not harming others than i will respect them and leave them alone in their homes and their people's homes just when they get a piece of paper from themselves saying that it's okay direct. Yeah man and aerob- writes a piece of paper and then men with guns come in and ruin people's lives shoot dogs shoot innocent peaceful people into cribs. They shoot cat scientists. Look that up since you're here. Are they basically cats to you. What possible threat is a cat to a human being well. They've shot caged dogs before. So i mean what possible threat because that have been. I'm not making any more than the more this discussion goes on. So people's rights continued to expand establishing hundreds of chapters that bundy organized with the aim of being able to dispatch ten protesters to a scene in ten minutes. One hundred in one hundred minutes in two thousand and one thousand minutes instructed each chapter to launch teams to train in secret for paramilitary operations to defend members from criminals or government agents. Or do i repeat myself. That line was not in the la times but anyway going on in july he led demonstrators to a public building in idaho in town called caldwell where they tried to barge into a meeting of officials who were discussing whether to impose a local mask mandate. This is not your building. Bundy shouted s. He's shoved demand guarding the doorway. The meeting was cancelled though. The health board eventually decided to recommend wearing masks in public the next month he and some supporters forced their way past state troopers into an idaho. State house gallery that was closed. Because of the pandemic how do they. That doesn't sound like reality. How do you force yourself past state troopers without getting arrested. Well police did arrest him twice in two days. Finally wheeling him out of the building in an office chair charged with trespassing and obstructing officers he was banned from the capitol for year. In november people's rights members carrying tiki torches gathered in front of the boise mayor. Lauren mcleans house to protest. The virus health restrictions. Many of their roughly thirty demonstrators were not wearing masks and several shouted opposition to a city call for residents to report businesses violating pandemic risk regulations. One woman yelled snitching. Get stitches love. It sounds like he's doing good work. Yeah there's more you want it. Absolutely what do you think about the bundy's it sounds to me like they're they're doing the right. I support it. I haven't seen anything here. That i i disagree with it so far so far just about everything i've seen from mormon activism has been just awesome. True they're also behind the gold back horns that was one of the activists things. I was thinking about six zero three two three sixty sixty s the call. Line that six zero three two eight three six one six zero. This is free talk live. it's free talk. Live talk about whatever you want. Six zero three two eight three six point. Six zero is the call in line with you tonight. It's aria bonnie. And and i assumed the three of us are going to be at rogers campground for june. The twenty eighth july fourth for fort fest. Twenty twenty one at rogers campground in beautiful white mountains of new hampshire. It is the week after the porcupine freedom festival and is decentralized which means that no one in charge which means that. Everyone is in charge. Also means there's no ticket cost just reserve your camping site. Rv side or motel room with roger campground for june the twenty eighth three july the fourth last year that it was epic there was a rock concert. There was a poker tent that was active almost every night. Several party ten. If i remember correctly it's a great place to be. Check it out at park fest dot party unofficial telegram chat. There's an unofficial forum fork fast. Stop party june. The twenty eight through july the fourth at rogers campground. We see there again. Fork fest dot. Party is the website. Well let's go to the phones. Apparently some sports ball thing happened over the weekend. I heard about that and some people are really upset. Tell us about that third ferguson. Yeah well i Heard earlier today that That particularly i mean the most insane people in my opinion. And i've been calling for over year on how insane the less has been becoming. They're really angry that the tampa bay buccaneers beat the kansas city chiefs Over the weekend and not because not because they like the not because they yuks are the better team not because they Support the oxygen in any in any measurable amount more than than to kansas city chiefs. But only because tom brady. Who is the quarterback. I guess who. Who i guess. Some point got traded to the buccaneers Because he's white and and the quarterback for the chiefs is black and they're mad that the white quarterback beat the black quarterback. There really offended about. Where are you seeing this. I haven't seen this well well. There's there's a twitter storm. That's been kicking up Among some of the blue checkmark books politics morons out there including commentators. Like lisa hendricks and michael smith michael holly dna dna any of these people are. I wouldn't say that this reflects on all leftists just seems like you saw some crazy people talking on twitter of presumably there's black and white people on both teams Usually i'm not. I didn't say anything about race on both sides but but listen but these are just some of the The liberals that have been Really angry and upset that That the black quarterback through the white quarterback and by the way we collect quarterback beat the white quarterback the beat the black quarterback. Oh yeah yeah the white quarterback feet the blackboard tom. Yeah that's the only reason they're mad about this. By the way. I would be mad about the lack of masks once the game was over. This just makes me. Sports to me is pretty mindless as is but that makes it even dumber for people to be arguing about sports because one guy has a skin color that they don't like i mean that's basically what you're talking about seems like a small group of people. I haven't heard of this on my phone. You said it was a twitter storm. Whatever that means yup yup and and by the way. I should say this because this is this is pretty insane to be out of us aren't accidentally like monitoring twitter or watching twitter feeds or anything like that no. I do go on twitter on occasion. While i'm on the toilet. Just twitter belong just to see what some people who haven't made the switch to mastodon are still doing over there and by the way i should say that i'm not the one you saw this on twitter. The independent media is covering speak already because of of how much this is blowing up on twitter. But these people are also mad. Because tom brady for four years ago was seen with a maga hat in his locker. And they're angry because he he wasn't canceled ever because of that wasn't fired or cancelled because He owns a maga half and that also was really upsetting to the liberals and And i think this is insane. I just can't imagine being so upset. Over what other people do you know. And what other. People are spending their money on or spending their time on. I mean these people obviously obviously have nothing better to do. Maybe that's because they've locked themselves in their homes for the last year and they just don't have a life they have nowhere to go right. I don't know. I just don't understand the obsession with other people's anything keep in mind. These are all the brunch liberal to these are all the liberals that have everything handed to them on a silver platter and And it's really funny. I think because You know jerome always calls it and talks about. What a racist. Donald trump is and the and how he's been like been like this. This this This this this really obnoxious Unpleasant and The dividing racist over the past four years when he was the president. But it happens to be the liberals here that are mad that Just a white guy. Beat a black guy and i would really like to hear what jerome has stayed about that because this isn't coming from donald trump. This is coming to you on a weekend. Jerome i think is exclusively a weekend radio listener. So he's probably not barbara bonney. I'm just gonna say. Third ferguson is really generalizing here. he's talking about all. I don't like any generalizing. He's talking about all leftists of they all are dumb enough to act like this. And i really don't think that there's a big problem of people talking about this. Even of twitter has some people being loud about it. I'm not generalizing. i'm just. I'm i'm talking about really specific. I'm talking about really specific people here. And i even named off a couple of them specifically to are acting like a bunch of mark and i and i just morons on twitter tired. Thank you so much for the call the update you read off some names from people that i've never heard of who sounds like they're saying some pretty stupid things. If you wanna find morons on twitter just search for double masking plenty there. I think is more interesting that nobody's wearing masks in tampa all the sudden. I have a friend from italy. And she lived in italy all twenty twenty but she just moved to florida and she put posted a video of herself at like a club or a bar in tampa like the night of the super bowl and she was panning around the room. It was just a bunch of young people really close to each other dancing and talking and drinking and none of them like there was like one mask and the entire video. I watched it i. I was stunned. When i saw the ending of the super bowl because we watched at work and the number of people not wearing masking their booths and as they mingled and they celebrated with people after the game it was encouraging to see so few people wearing masks. I remember remarking at that moment. I bet this is already going viral on twitter from people complaining about the fact that they're not wearing masks. That's what i expect people to be upset about. Not the fact that tom brady is white and the other guy was black. That is of no consequence whatsoever except people who obsess over race and people who obsess over people who obsess over race. Yeah i'm just rolling through here looking at people talking about double masking. And how proud they are about it. Definitely virtue signaling. Yep some of them are saying that it hurts their ears but they're doing it anyway because some experts said so. I thought it was more comfortable though some. You know everybody's got a different opinion about it. But some of them are saying it is more comfortable to wear the double mass comey. Here's this one person presumably just shopping stops to take a selfie of herself and tax it double masking at the best buy. Yep she just wants to show everybody yes. There is no other points at this. I've never just walking through the store thought now. It's a great time to stop and take a selfie that double masking now What do you think about this. Virtue signal may be turned his right. Maybe it's a problem what these people are saying on twitter. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero against six zero three two eight three six one six zero look. I'm sorry but you're in for a world of pain. If you use coin omi the reason is their wallet. Doesn't support payments. The solution is simple. Let them hear your voice message. Coin me on twitter. It takes five seconds and tell them any pace sent you because they're on the fence right now and your voice will prove that people care about using bitcoin for payments. Go tweet at me now or even better. Leave a review in the app store. They really pay attention there. Thanks a it's free talk. Five six zero three two eight three six point. Six zero is the common line with you tonight. It's ian at bonnie and we're talking about militias here and then we got distracted with this nonsense about w fast on twitter. Because that's where you'll really see some stupidity if that's what you wanna see and of course i do love looking from the outside but while we were doing that i felt courageous and decided to search twitter for triple mask kingston and i was not disappointed. There are plenty of people who have already started wearing triple of remorse. They have and you think you it means they care three times as much exactly vin or money explains this rather well as you found yeah Then was the one who suggested searching for double masking the first place and he points out on his twitter which is at vr monte. He says that double masking is a thing. Helps you understand that you are dealing with a religious phenomenon. When masks become mandated as they are in a lot of the united states right now and elsewhere in the world wearing the mask is no longer a signal of church of woke membership therefore the second mask must be added to signal willing participation. And indeed when you see the people with the double masks what you'll see in a lot of cases is that they will purposely wear contrasting masks so they'll have like a white mask and then overtop or over top of a black mask or vice versa or something like that that way. You know that they're wearing masks. Does it make it clear right. Because if they were wearing to the exact same type of mask you'd have to look carefully. You'd have to really look at them to see if they were wearing masks but many might not know how much they care right. So it's important for them to signal that and Yeah so this person on twitter says i believe some of y'all aren't triple masking. Yes and this is serious. The these are people being totally serious. I've always been double masking sometimes. Even triple masking. i prefer no masking about. They weren't about they've just been doing more masks. I've always been triple masking hits. It's distressing but we are covering good news at the moment or at least refreshing news. That isn't about crazy people. It's about people actually fighting for their rights and therefore the people at the los angeles times think that's crazy. Well of course they do but they also think that you know wearing three layers of fabric over your faces. A good idea for a politician said so so therefore it must be true and some expert. According to this person on twitter said so. do you want to continue with Ammon bundy absolutely going on there so listeners. just tuning in we're talking about ammon bundy's new organization and new. As of the last year he created it. I think in march of twenty twenty called people's rights. The website is people's rights dot oregon to the los angeles times credit. They did link to his website so that was nice so but now they've done everything they can to bad mouth him Since that point but They're talking about how this organization has chapters all across the united states now he is claiming as many as fifty thousand members of this group and the idea is that it's a group of people. Maybe they don't all agree on everything but they will come together to the defense sort of the mutual defense of their network when called upon and we sort of liken this to sell four one one which is an app that does similar things. That hopefully will have some good news for you about later on this week but Just to to bring you up to speed here. So back to the store from the los angeles times. They're talking about some of the activism that they've done over the last year like going to the boise mayor's house and protesting outside carrying torches and there were a couple dozen demonstrators out there not wearing masks shouting opposition to a city call for residents to report businesses for violating pandemic regulations. They also protested in the state house. Where bundy was twice arrested in two days there and is now banned from the capitol for a year as a result of about now what about the rights of citizens to petition their senators representatives. Or whatever doesn't matter they'll ban you from wherever they want in fact banned. footloose frank. Who was arrested at the governor's house from coming back within a thousand feet of the governor's house really. Yeah as part of his bail. conditions The next month boise area health board. Shut down its own meeting after a county. Commissioner tearfully interrupted the proceedings to say she had to rush home because people's rights demonstrators were harassing. Her family actually saw this clip. It's pretty entertaining. It's probably not them harassing her family. Right it's just protesting. She says my twelve year old son is home alone right now and protesters are banging outside the door. She said now when people didn't flip out there she left her twelve year old home alone. I mean i was staying at home by myself when i was twelve years old. But that's not acceptable in today's society staying at home at like seven babysitter. No how at twelve. the interview. Last month held at a restaurant. In emmett idaho where he lives where masks are optional and few people wear them. Bunny bundy defended. His group's methods saying the government society are deteriorating. That courts are unjust. Legislature tramp re legislatures trample rights and families allow the state to educate an influence their children. We can't disagree with any of that. No he's right. People will need more and more to be able to find security. He said and he said protests could achieve results much faster than lawsuits citing demonstration that his group staged at a june hospital or at last june at a hospital in olympia washington. Hospital officials at the time weren't allowing a couple to be with their newborn after the mother tested positive for the corona virus quote within an hour and a half. We had a couple of hundred people there and a couple of thousand people coming once. The hospital started to see literally a presence of people. They retracted their position. Blamed it on the government's health department and released the baby to the parents. Angela effective providence. Saint peter hospital spokeswoman disputed the accuracy of bundy's account but said that the patient confidentiality prevented her from discussing. The case asked with hospital staff members were given a chance to explain their reasoning for isolating. The baby bundy said no. He said you don't get to take somebody's baby and think you have a side of justice. It was black and white last month at the hospital. Protest in vancouver washington. Kelly stuart that people's rights coordinator for the area narrated livestream video on bundy's youtube account that ultimately attracted more than seventy thousand views. The video shows a protester trying to pry open the locked. Double doors and a deputy sprang chemical irritant in his face. The protesters cheered when the hospital released. Meyer whose tearful daughter wheeled her out and helped her into a van freedom. A man yelled stewart. A longtime bundy compatriot berated law enforcement for siding with the hospital. Instead of the protesters. She said that right wing activists who joined back the blue rallies last summer and waved american flags with blue lines had been duped quote. We're starting to learn your actually the standing army. Our founders warned us against there just dangerous tired. She said we're having a blue line flag burning party tonight. Oh better late than never for sure. I love the i gotta say credit to richard reid. The author here. That's a great way to end that story. Oh that's that's the ending that they're going to blue. Burn the blue line flags that's awesome. That's not a bad idea. either. I don't want to encourage the blue line. Flag people buying them in order to burn up similarly. They already had them because they were supporting their own. Blue line. flag isn't that case which is awesome. That is a good innings. I hope they made video of that too. That would have made a great video. It's good to see that you know. His activism is proving successful and that people are beginning to see the police for what they are. Which are the enforcers of tyranny for the state. They're not anything else. No doubt and it's also good to see them using as you mentioned earlier that technology Like telegram and signal. These are better than facebook kind of organizing methods. They're not the best. they're still centralized you know. Telegram is still a company. Not a mega company like facebook. But it's still accompanying the they have taken down some chat rooms On their platform so for the most safe form chatting on the internet. You gotta go with the matrix you really need to look into. You don't have to use our server but if you wanna check it out go to chat dot freetalklive dot com and their There's instructions step by step instructions on how to connect to that server and matrix is decentralized. It's poly centric meaning that there's different matrix servers all around the globe. So if you've got somebody that knows what they're doing like we do like an. It guy he can set that up for you can have your own server or you can use one of ours. For instance you can use our server. Make your own chat room there if you want to. It is cool technology. You're right they do use a lot of these technologies. That are very familiar. Libertarians in addition to telegram in order to even sign up for the site. You have to have signal because they have to send you a text message and whatever it is that they do it has to send you an encrypted text message. They won't assume you'll receive just garbage if you don't have signal now. I like that feature signal doesn't send texts anymore. They only use their their network. Now so you won't receive anything if you don't have signal six zero. Three two eight three sixty one. Sixty is the color. You can talk about anything on your mind. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero. We're going to move on here at. This is free. talk live It's free talk. Live six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero is the color line. Six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty and i wanna tell you about any pay two point. Oh it's here. In crypto payments are now faster than ever. If you're using the edge wallet hand cash. Bitcoin dot com or dash wallets in those cases. Your experiences will be smooth but some wallets aren't ready for the impressive new technology and the people behind those wallace need to hear from you. The wallet users so visit any pay. I see dot com slash upgrade to learn why some popular wallets are incompatible with any pay and reach out to the wallet programmers and encourage them to make payments perfect to any pay. Inc dot com slash upgrade. I had a perfect payment today at the wonderful taco. Biondo in hillsborough new hampshire. I had one two today. Actually from mighty moo smarts. The new convenience store hearing came that accepts crypto currency and gives a five percent. Discount for people paying in crypto. They just awesome. I also had a perfect payment at the lucky seven's bar and restaurant that now accepts crypto currency. Because i had them for breakfast any pay makes it so easy later. It's instant tummy. Oftentimes i see and we're not just saying that because the founder just walked in completely unrelated. I mean we say this. Every time we talk about any pay indian check him out any pay. Inc dot com Let's go to the phones. We got mike calling from dover mike. You're on free talk live yet. Hey i just wanted to comment the fellow that called in to vote the super bowl and all the reaction on social media about the The people who are upset. Because tom brady as white and the other guys right. Okay right right the races. It reminded me how there was. A fella named watch was canadian. Dug in deep in history and All this huxley and those fellas and the brainwashing the the media. The sports is intended to be a distraction. You talking about nineteen eighty-four that would be what was wrong. Similar alan watts was canadian and he used to have a website. He went over to england and read the history books. The books not on the computer. Read the books Delic guy. Isn't alan watts like psychedelic Sort of something in the background there. Mike it's the same. It's the same name but different person. Different guy okay. Well there's no doubt that that the sports is definitely part of the bread and circuses right to keep people distracted and keep the ignorant. I don't know about that being the sole purpose on them they. It's good to have some things that distract you from your daily life now and then and i don't think those ideas necessarily bad everybody's got to have a hobby everybody's gotta have something to To pass the time you play video games when you get the get the time for it or or whatever. Everybody's got the thing that they do. That ticks away. The seconds until are inevitable demise and sports is one of those things. My dad loves sports. it's really cute. Well i did see that. The super bowl is at the lowest ratings it has had in decades. Yeah i think apparently five was the last time it was this low. I thought it was. I mean they said decades a really oh. I didn't look at the article. That was just the headline that i saw. Okay so yeah. I didn't look at any articles about it either. So that's good news for our caller there if people are if he believes that sports is this sort of opiate of the masses then that means that fewer people are watching at the very least watching football american football. Mike thank you so much for the call. He needed to get his phone under control. It sounded like a little noisy there. I started hearing stuff in the background. I've got to put a stop to this about that. So rush limbaugh is ailing and so is the conservative talk radio industry and i picked this. Because i know a topic that you love discussing. At least i did not know. I was not aware that the talk radio industry is predominantly conservative. You didn't know that. Oh yeah so absolutely. There was a time in the arts over a decade ago when the leftist tried to do talk radio and they launched a thing called air america and it just it sailed over like a lead balloon. Did not go very well. They had a bunch of money like venture capital investor types and they ran out of money and shut down their writing. There are probably no more than a handful of Quote unquote progressive. Talk stations broadcasting in america. Today and we've been station say tend to be younger people and younger people. Don't listen to the radio. I mean that could be a factor in it but for whatever reason there's just not a whole lot of money i guess in people being willing to sponsor those stations for some reason why that is so rush limbaugh. The most successful talk radio host in history is and so is the medium medium. He helped revolutionize over the last thirty years based with aging and shrinking audiences competition from newer technologies in financial problems for the biggest station owners. Talk radio is in decline about as a business and a political force once a leading platform for popularizing conservative candidates. Some policies talk. Radio is now on the verge of becoming background. Noise drowned out by cacophony of voices on podcast cable. Tv and social media. Who's writing the story. Msn dot com. You find them to be exaggerating. Well i find it to be an exaggeration. Talk radio was ever any kind of a motivational thing. Or i forget the word they use their. That suggested that it was once this great organizational thing and i think that a lot of talk show host wanna make themselves seem like they're that big of an influence but i don't think they are. They're just people who talk on the radio and they have opinions and they want to believe that people will follow them or whatever. But i don't think there's any real evidence for that. The formats crisis comes biggest. Star is battling to stay on the air indeed. He's battling for his life. Limbaugh seventy has been frank about his struggle with what he said. Last year's advanced lung cancer he was a smoker for a long time from what i understand his uncertain future. Confronts the talk radio business and conservatism generally with the prospect of losing most galvanizing figure says sleeping from local local station is sacramento to nationally. Syndicated stardom in nineteen eighty eight Limbaugh has been the bullhorn behind every important conservative initiative from the contract with america in the mid ninety s to the tea party movement of the obama area era too the ascent of donald trump not the contract with america. I've heard about this before. Was it this like where conservative. republicans pledged to be conservative. and they didn't and they made a new pledge sometime in the two thousands to do the same. It sounds vaguely familiar. And yeah surprise. The politicians told you a lie and rush limbaugh all along the way making excuses. I'm sure for these people. I mean there's no doubt that limbaugh deserves a lot of credit for essentially being sort of the granddaddy of talk radio in its current form. So he does. He definitely deserves that. Credit article makes it sound like he's responsible for from the shifts like originally. You had to pay to get a show on your radio station. And it sounds like according to this article that he was the one who came up with the idea of oh no we can just sell them airtime and they can have the show for free if they will run it. No rush limbaugh is actually one of the few paid shows. Meaning that stations actually pay rush limbaugh whereas ninety nine percent of talk shows out there do not get paid from the station's thereon. We're on one hundred ninety radio stations over the entire week here on free talk live. So that's how many stations carry the show right. And they do not pay a dime to air free talk live and that's true for almost every show that they've got on the air unless they've got rush in which case then they're paying based on their market size so larger markets pay more for rush than smaller markets. Do basically. they're going to pay about as much as they would pay a local talk show host to do that. Slot so rush is a insanely expensive show. Sounds like it yeah. Early in the coronavirus pandemic limbaugh told told listeners that the virus was no worse than the common cold and that the the news media had weaponized the crisis to hurt trump. He floated the fringe theory that the virus created in chinese laboratory as a bioweapon a few weeks before the november election. He devoted to hours of his program to worshipful trump interview. After trump lost he amplified the president's lies about voter fraud and at one point suggested that conservative states might secede from the union and then walked that back of course he's a coward the next day trump for his part awarded limbaugh the presidential medal of freedom during the state of the union speech last year and it goes on with a little bit about trump. Limbaugh here. I said trump limbaugh rush. Limbaugh the isn't super important because certain conservative. Talk radio's problem is a so much. How many people are listening as who the audience. They grew up with nba's now quite gray largely people sixty five and older fewer than eight percent of those who regularly listen to talk. Radio are twenty five to fifty four according to nielsen research. Meanwhile yes meanwhile plain old. Am fm radio. The primary medium for programs is rapidly losing ground to newer technology such as satellite radio streaming audio and podcasts. Only fifty percent of those surveyed by edison research last year listed terrestrial radio stations as their first listening choice in a car. The shifts makes someone like comedian. Joe rogan libertarian. I don't know about that either. With a hugely popular podcast quotes that next rush limbaugh. Let's talk about that absolutely because it's a fascinating evolution of media and we're living six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty six zero three two eight three six one six zero. Are we irrelevant. This is free talk live. Do you feel like your country. No longer holds your values. Have you dreamt of a place where liberty minded people can come together and leave government overreach behind. There are many people just like you. That are discovering free. Private cities dot com. They started free private cities dot com and connect via the social media links. Shown they're all skills will be needed when the first free private cities open it sooner than you think. Stop arguing and build free private cities dot com free private cities dot com ca. Free talk law. It's free talk. Live talkradio controlled. Six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero is the whole online calling about anything you want. Six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero tonight are funny and we're here on talk radio talking about talk radio because it's it's sort of a state of flux right now it is but with the rise of podcasting and people doing shows on youtube. I mean we're video as well. I mean it's not like we're failing to adapt with the changes that are happening but a lot of places are among those. I presume i'm sure rush. Limbaugh does video as well doesn't he. He does as i understand it. you gotta pay naturally see ours is free you can watch us on dot freetalklive dot com or twitch dot freetalklive dot com. You can watch us later on youtube if you want to do that for whatever stupid reason by the way. I talked to jeremy from library over this weekend. They had the porcupine day festivities in new hampshire on saturday. Actually a bonnie. And i both went to took the night off from the show to go to this. This was the five year celebration at the free state. Project held to sort of call closed their five-year move window. That started in february of two thousand sixteen so it is now over. That doesn't mean the free state project is is over. They're going to continue recruiting people to to migrate here. As as i think that they should do. I used to think that they should shut down but they convinced they They they were pretty persuasive that they've been doing really well in the last couple of years. Anyway jeremy kaufman. Who's the founder of library. Which is a decentralized blockchain based video hosting service which is an awesome thing by the way l. d. r. y. dot com. He was there. And i did speak with him. They are in the testing process of doing streaming non library. And so we're sort of on the shortlist of shows that they they may be coming to. I mean they wouldn't get kicked off right. I would hope that they wouldn't kick us off because they came to us a long time ago about librarian. Free talk live is on librarian. Free keen on library so it seems like a no brainer that we should also be streaming to To their new website which is called odyssey o. d. y. s. e. Okay so that sort of put a front end if you will onto the whole library thing. And so they're competing with with youtube as a decentralized system what i did learn about library streaming. It's actually still centralized so it's not peer to peer streaming. They're not doing that but they do their own. Centralized streaming service like are. We should be on that. So hopefully we'll have something to announce about that sooner rather than later awesome. I keep intending to put bad movie club on library. But i haven't actually gotten around to it. We watched a push versus well wolf sunday and it was. I cannot recommend it not even as a bad movie. It was one of those made for scifi bad movies that you know was going to bet and it's trying to be bad for the scifi channel. Yeah okay and it's just it's not enjoyable. There was no humor in it. I regret the fact that i watched that there was no shark nato. Then i haven't watched shark nato. I did watch shark and saw women's prison massacre and there's video of that if you wanna check out that's bad movie club dot. Us oh really yeah. Let's just four star youtube channel. But us you know that money goes to the us government. Right i didn't so i did not know that. Then that's the url at the moment. So what do you recommend like what you've you've been doing this bad movie club for. How many weeks now. Maybe two months. What's the worst. What's the best worst movie you. You've seen killer. Raccoons too dark christmas and the dark style gloriously. Stupid if you really wanna go all out there and see the worst of the worst. It's dude party massacre three okay. There is no one or two obvious though. Dude bro. Party massacre three is the dumbest thing you'll ever watch and we'll be dumber after watching that dad. I don't know if i wanted to. I wouldn't go that. It's bad enough. Just reading about double masking on twitter. It's up there with double and triple masking killer. Raccoons too dark christmas and the dark though is enjoyable. And it's i would recommend that one okay so back to the subject talk radio. Conventional radios decline appears to have accelerated sharply pandemic. Yes it has. And that is due to also. It's happening to news media as far as like newspapers also was on a decline prior to twenty twenty but definitely declining more sharply after that. And that's because frankly advertising dollars dried right up. So you know. Companies that were actually advertising on the radio in in newsprint. For instance probably television as well that we're advertising now. All of a sudden didn't have customers coming through the door so they didn't have the budget anymore to actually pay for the advertising that they were doing so you had companies that were advertising cancelling at ads. It's like basically saying. Hey we don't have any money anymore so we can't pay you for the ads that we already agreed to buy so some companies just saying sorry and then So how do you keep your radio station on the air headache your newspaper in print. If you don't have any advertisers. I mean these are driven business models in that whole business. Model just evaporated. Basically overnight thanks to the government and their various different restrictions. so it's It's tough out there for a lot of radio station owners. Although it's probably even tougher for the big mega corporations because they already had huge debt loads that their companies were struggling to pay off prior to cova already companies like iheartmedia which used to be known as clear channel and media these two of the largest companies in america both of them have gone through bankruptcy proceedings in the last several years the last few years as the government. Give them money to stay alive. That's a good question honestly. I haven't heard about that happening. It wouldn't surprise me if they have. But for whatever reason i haven't seen the news on that the story mentions that at some point says they filed for bankruptcy protection or something. I don't know exactly what that means but it probably has helped talk media that for last year One of the only things that we've really had to talk about has been the pandemic otherwise news has been extraordinarily slow throughout the last year. Yeah i hate it and people are probably sick of talking about it. Sick of hearing about it. I know it. Daily commutes have been disrupted by. Stay at home. Orders and a new work from home culture wiping out part of radios lucrative quote drive time audiences unclear whether those listeners will return after the pandemic subsides and traffic jams return. Yeah that is true. I saw the numbers about that. Npr was publishing and that their radio listenership dropped by twenty five percent really. Yeah because people aren't gonna work. Talk radio older demographics where weakness even before the pandemic said jerry. Del kellyanne and new york university business professor turned off by the hosts. Occasional nastiness and seeking younger customers. Mini blue chip companies have stopped advertising on talk. Radio shows leaving the station's smaller sponsors who pay less yes. Some advertisers will not by talk. Radio doesn't matter whether it's left or right wing or whatever they will not by what is considered controversial programming because they don't want to be associated with it they don't want to be part of some sort of a boycott you know they're afraid of that kind of publicity so they stay away from it and that has resulted in and i think they're about to say this in the in the article but that's resulted in a different kind of advertiser you'll hear people like not that i listened to his show but i've been told that this is going on By by mark edge of our co hosts that you'll hear rush limbaugh doing what they call per inquiry or acquisition calls so or or advertisements in that means that if rush limbaugh's like promoting thing on the air and you call the number that he gives out then rush gets paid so they didn't pay rush to do the ad they pay him on the back end if they sell a tractor or whatever. It is that that's how it often works with youtube advertisers as well. You know these. Vpn companies like finding youtube channel. Senate they give you a special url and someone actually uses that you are like affiliate links to correct so for for a company like refer for broadcaster like rush limbaugh to have to resort to affiliate links any of the equivalent of radio equivalent of an affiliate link. Yeah that's that's a tough time so limbaugh style talk. Radio was originally. A solution to the industry's technical and business problems by the nineteen eighties. Am radio had lost out to the higher fidelity fm ben st preferred medium from music. The most popular kind of radio programming as rock pop country and other formats migrated to fm am stations facing existential crisis. What to do the answer is neither of which required high fidelity limbaugh proved to not only be wildly popular but also cost effective in a savvy former. Abc radio executive. They fluff out a lot of this. All they had to do was carry rush. Limbaugh's program set aside four minutes per hour for ads that mclaughlin's company sold to national sponsors. And the stations got to sell the remaining commercial time to local advertisers and according to this they got russia's show for free that must have been the early days because that changed say nineteen eighty eight zero six zero three two eight three six one six zero. This is free talk live. it's free talk. Live with oriente ian and bonnie. Now i wanna say thank you to gavin. Who has tonight's amplifier. This macy's a member of the mp program can find out more about it at three talk. Five dot com. This is how we get more radio stations. People who could to that are directly helping us do so gavin. Thank you so much for your support. All we ask to join. The program is five dollars per month. That gets you membership into the program number of cool little personally. Technically we still have an only call in line. There's an there's an amp only facebook group. That i don't think anyone ever really joins anymore because nobody about that anymore. Yeah yeah but other cool little stuff check it out amp freetalklive dot com to learn more about it gavin. Thank you so much. We hope you continue helping us. Get all more radio stations. The new cool thing is the amps or slash porter's chat room that we have on the matrix server so if you're a free talk live amplifier. All you gotta do is just. Send me a message on the matrix server and there's instructions on how to do this whenever you sign up for the ant program. I'll send you the instructions on how to do this. But you send me a message with your amp emails. I know it's actually you And then i will you to that room. That's very cold facebook They they are really in a decline these days man. I've looked at the calculator during thing but since the first ban in october not the ipad but the abandoned october shortly after the news about my campaign went viral. I have been unbanned exactly thirteen days. Are you being right now. Yes what's the latest one for this time. I don't know man. I mentioned something about bitcoin. Okay and i put hashtag bitcoin and then to be safe. You would think elon. Musk can do it then. Suddenly i got bad for a within seconds got banned for posted i had made on december the fourth more than a month before So i don't know it was that about i don't recall okay but that's suspicious The last time i was banned it was because of something related to bitcoin and immediately afterward hit with another thirty day bed. So it's it's hard to even be upset. You can just do other things with your time. I never use facebook much anyway. Because every time i post i end up getting bad no matter what it is that i post it's stupid. I don't know why i keep doing it. Except it's such a miniscule thing to me that hey if it works. I might as well say something there and they liked being abused. I don't know not buy into. Let's go to the phones. We've got the arco republican calling and our co republican. You're on free. Talk live agreed. Semantic condom montana. Hello anyway Yeah talk about The decline of talk radio is really Distressing to me especially given the d. platforming and the other media outlets because they seem like they're just all On the same page to same left as you know Propaganda gets his perpetrated on them. And it's sad to see the the decline of it. But i can. I can attest. It's true because I've got to a point where radio my main media and the local station here. I mean the only play about six different commercials local commercials than i used to get real angry about the commercials you know because they drive me crazy and then i realized wait a minute. You know these are the people that are supporting your information. When for them you wouldn't have at all you know so i mean. Sometimes they play three or four times an hour the same commercials a bad thing and and We we gotta realize just you know how much but the great thing about radio is that at night. You know you can pick up. Stations are five hundred miles away and people just sort of find you. And that's how i found you guys. I just happen to tune industry. Yeah i love. The internet doesn't isn't quite like that. The internet is can be controlled and the internet. You have you generally have to seek out what you're looking for. It's very rare just going to stumble across a signal On the internet. Like you can on radio and i don't think that radio is on. Its last legs. I think that you know even though it is having a tough time right now due to and it's not just the pandemic or the government restrictions associated with it. This has been building for decades for talk radio in the nineteen nineties. They had what they called. Consolidation happened in the business and what had happened then was the fcc under it was clinton or where it was but at some point. They changed the rules to allow one company to own more than more than x. Radio stations that. I remember what the number was but there was a very low limit on the number of stations that one company could only generally and then they they raise our nominated that limit and it made it so that these companies could buy up tons of radio stations so companies what they did and that's what they did. You mean listen. I heart media to route enormous numbers of loan right so they bought a bunch of these mom and pop radio stations up and then got all this debt and then what happened in the in the next decade so not long after in the next decade in the arts. Well guess what. The internet came along with this unexpected competition to radio. I mean some of us could see it coming but the radio business certainly didn't and so then all of a sudden these radio stations had unlimited competitors on various different broad internet platforms and now as a result of that the price of radio stations started going down and so they'd poured all this money into these stations and then when they tried to sell them later on they only sell them at fractions of what they had originally paid for them. So they've been upside down on these radio stations for decades radio disney Went went under a few years ago and literally sold their stations off for fractions of what they paid for them. Sounds like basis or zuckerberg. Or you know these guys could just buy up all the radio to like the newspapers. Well they haven't done that yet and if they did try and see if you can buy it for a song is coming. River existed on this planet. Well the the economics though are that if you start going around trying to buy all the radio stations then all the sudden the prices are going to go up so that wouldn't be a smart move to make in that particular case but you're right you're right because that's how they get those those newspapers. They don't really care if those newspapers make. Those newspapers are just their voice propaganda. Republican thank you so much for the call to agree with you. I don't think talk radio or radio in general is going to die but it's going to have to evolve in some ways. Well it did warm my heart. When i learned that bonnie in her early twenties actually has listened to the radio okay. That is good. That was a surprise to me. When i found out that not only has she listened to broadcast radio but has actually listen to. Am radio are you talking about custody. Coast whatever whatever it was. Yeah to coast but the point is like generally you don't consider young people to be radio listeners. And i think that's probably true. Generally i mean. Do you know do a lot of your friends. Do they actually listen to the radio. And i don't know anybody listens to the radio music. We all connect our phones via bluetooth stereo and we streams from spotify right. Yeah the least the least relevant radio Out there is music radio. I mean why would anyone listen to it anymore. There's what what can you get from radio that you can't get online from a zillion different locations. You know i mean and only thing that they have is some program director who picks the songs for you. And if that's what you wanna do are people online that do that as well. I mean there's also features on spotify where they create a new playlist for you every single day with some artists. You light artists and artist. You may never have heard of. I love that I use apple music. But i love that on apple music because sometimes i just can't remember songs that i like and also just shows you new music that you like. There's a discovery factor there. And of course all you have to do to find out what the song is actually literature to look your device Some music radio. It doesn't have. I don't think the staying power that talked does even though this article. Thanks talk on the way out. I think it's just in the process of changing well as mark. Mitchell would talk radio. You hear something different every single day. I mean there's no doubt about it when i drive here. I listened to the same two hundred songs. All the time we'll talk. Radio is always different. Six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty. It's free talk. Live talk radio. You control six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero is the colon number. Talk about whatever you want. Six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty eight tonight. It's aria bonnie and ian and we've been here on talk radio talking about decline of talkradio ian as you mentioned earlier point south that all of these forces are converging on conventional media and they pushed the to owners. I heart media and cumulus media to file for bankruptcy court protection in two thousand seventeen and two thousand eighteen respectively These are the economics of Stances prior to the covid restriction. Yes and kobe just has exacerbated the situation it was seen because advertisers dried up. Everyone shopping online. Yeah the local newspaper here in keene new hampshire which has been around since the seventeen hundreds. It's the oldest crap. It's the old late the late seventeen hundreds but but still. It's the oldest newspaper in new hampshire. From what i understand. So they've been around long enough. They've got their building paid for right like they. They must own the building by now. There's no more so they don't probably have the biggest overhead as far as some newspapers do not renting fancy facilities in new york city. So they were begging for donations up to stay in business because they're they had no advertisers anymore and the obviously wanted to continue operating so they asked for donations from the community. And they gotta they gotta forty thousand dollars in donations on the first run through that. I saw them doing it. I don't know if they did a subsequent one but you know good for them so they still in business they are. Let's go to the phones. We've got david calling from new mexico. David you're on free talk. Live under the heading of four one one. I got a question on that. But combining elements that you sit in your program tonight. You're talking about the was it ammon bundy and In some protests to salvation that communities that were going on without and I want to draw on. Somebody said on your program multiple times in the past. Is that the the only thing stopping people from having the government they deserve as composed to as opposed to the government's being forced on them is that That thin blue line guys out there. People that call yourself the thin blue line You could be working for us for the people but instead you're protecting neo. The power hungry money hungry Oppressive governments and if what you should do is turn your lying around Posing them and fighting for us. And that's what you need to do and just remember. Is it When the people finally get control this you better have turned around by then. Because if you haven't you're going get the you're gonna get taken down and it ain't gonna be ain't gonna be fun for you It's tough to be in that position for for who might be a police officer. Who actually doesn't want to go along with all this tyranny You know how do you flip. If you feel like every other officer is going to be against you then you just know. You're going to end up in a prison cell for doing that. So that's not going to be a lot of these guys have families that they take care of and at the end of the day. It's the state that cuts that check. And they're not gonna feel like they've got a check coming in from just average people even though i think some people would step up to support them if they made the flip if they flipped actually supporting freedom and turning against the state and like arrested politicians or something. I donate to that. At least at least you need to begin preparing the mentally to thinking think about it that at the very least they'll keep to themselves and when they see the tide is turning. Tell the w flip at that moment a moment and turn on the oppressor remember. There's already sheriff. So out there deputies out there all around the country that are already stating publicly that. Hey we're not gonna follow you know. The feds are the federal. Police are being forced to enforce These various dictates and the local police especially in the form of the county sheriff's because the sheriffs are elected and they can't be fired by the governor or whomever like the state police can. They're already saying hey you know. Don't come around here. 'cause you're not welcome here and we're going to oppose you right up to the point where there are many counties. That says we're the said we're going to deputise every damn citizens in the entire county and arm them all if you try to come in here in boston around and and that's what needs to be Followed through on and yourself one You know keep us posted when that. is active in and be able to be used. Because what we need is more of those gatherings like you had a one family and one infant in question. And i don't know how many people had showed up at that but that's what we need is a cell four on one to put out an alert and then if if there are half a dozen or a dozen government officials oppressing a couple of citizens then a hundred of us show up and outnumber them and then when they thank you david. I did that on purpose. I mean he's basically describing the whole reason cellphone one was invented in the first place. Yeah and he's right on. I mean he. He was on a roll there but i agree with what he's saying. I mean that we've seen the the numbers work in our favor and numbers always work in your favor. And that's why. I think that just a couple Cops here and they're turning on the government and just saying cops and deciding to do. It's right isn't really like that's just like a government solution like there are plenty of other jobs. They should just quit and not be cops. I would agree quit and become like a private security worker or something. Sure look at the threat defense center. I believe is what it's called in detroit for a great example of privately run defense organization that you can hire to patrol your neighborhood to give you realize self-defense. Classes to twenty four seven security. They've got different levels of service that they offer The people of detroit that they serve and they've been doing it for several years now at least maybe most of the last decade. I'm not sure when they were founded but garrett ian from freaking dot com went out there and actually met the owner of threat defense center. I believe he came to. I don't know if it was like pork. Fester liberty forum one year or something like that but i don't know how libertarian. The guy is but he's competing with the police that's really also being successful. But as they're still in business as people's rights dot org and as one pointed out you know what we do need is a large number of people a glorified technologically capable neighborhood watch. It isn't about snitching to the police when something happens. It's about helping one another when someone needs it. It's about instead of going to the thugs. We just give each other a helping hand and it's a wonderful thing and i'm bundy has proved that it works. Go ahead and it's definitely a solution for when the police are the ones oppressing you. You obviously can't go to them. Yeah ideally you could go to the sheriff. But that's never how it actually works out apologize. It's threat management center not threat defense center in case people were out there looking for it in detroit. Threats management center management center very cool. Check him out so the financial pressures on cumulus and iheart make them unlikely to invest in the one thing that might save political talk radio local personalities. I tend to agree. I think the best thing they could do to save talk radio would be to actually stop censoring people to actually created a platform that is known for being friendly to free speech and lending people speak their actual opinions. We do that here we do. But we're one the only ones who do and we're not run by cumulus. And i heart radio recently. Hold on i wanna give credit where credit's due. We are heard on cumulus in iheartmedia stations. So i mean they're not the majority of the stations that were heard on but we are heard on several of them. Sure so you know that's good we're not owned by them in the sense that you know and business because cumulus was in the news recently for telling its talk show hosts that they were not allowed to say stop the steel on the air right and so that was like the first time in my history of working in radio where i've ever heard a corporation coming down and telling its talk show hosts that they cannot cover certain subject. That's pretty scary stuff. So it's been noted that sports talk. Radio has fared relatively well with hometown personalities. Yacking about local teams but hiring. Local host is an expensive proposition. Joe rosenthal set. Am radio is an imminent danger unless someone comes along to invest enough to enable it to become a local medium again. Yeah i mean. I wish i could say i'm optimistic about the future of. Am radio. but i can't i mean i. I love broadcast radio. I hope that. Am can stay relevant but day by day. It's getting harder and harder. Because i mean a lot of the younger listeners that do exist on. Radio are listening exclusively on fm. Which is why. I'm glad to see a lot of. Am stations are now getting what they call them. Translators into the am these am talk. Signals are now being heard on fm. I think the most important thing. Yeah i don't think i've ever listened to an am station in my life. Have you six zero. Three two eight three six one six zero free. Talk live with aria and six zero three two eight three sixty one. Sixty is colin number. If you want to and talk about whatever is on your mind. It's been great show. We've been talking about talk radio and how it's generally in a state of decline. But you think you have an idea of how it's going to adapt or evolve or what's going to happen next at the very least. I got some predictions. let's call them somewhat educated guesses. I've been in the business for a couple of decades now and but paid attention to what's been going on and the the talk radio business interest. Radio in general has had a tough time over the last two decades. Since the internet became a competitor you know radio and broadcast television for a long time. Were the only game in town. Besides the newspaper right like if you wanted entertainment that's where you went And then of course cable came in in the early nineteen eighties and more channels to the television experience but for the longest time radio didn't really have much in the way of competition. Satellite wasn't really a thing until the last twenty years right. Internet radio started in the late nineties. But it really wasn't a thing until later in the arts and so what changed for radio was all this competition came in. They thought the government was going to protect them from competition. That's what the licensing process does right. The the government licensing process whether we're talking about being a restaurant or whether it's you know whatever other government licensed business keeps competition out and so radio. Big corporations thought they were just going to be able to rest easy by up a bunch of radio stations and just kick back and enjoy the money rolling in but internet changed the game and it made it so anybody with you. Know five bucks a month could go and sign up at live three sixty five or whatever i heard. They're still in business. But you know some website and allow them to stream whatever music they wanted to to whoever's was willing to listen and there are thousands of internet streaming channels out there and this and i'm talking about before pandora and before you know spotify or whatever these apple music these sort of on demand services are out there so there have been competition to radio now for twenty years. They didn't expect to happen. And paying. licensing fees to the federal government isn't protecting them from it anymore so alternately they're sort of stuck in a real difficult situation where the only thing that they can do and this article did re reference to stay relevant is to be local. Because that's the one thing they can do pretty well that like apple. Music can't do right like apple. Music is gonna feed your music. But they're not going to be able to tell you what's going on in downtown fill in the blank city. They're not going to be able to tell you where the concerts are back when we had concerts or whatever things are happening how depressing when we had concert and maybe someday those things will happen again. Hopefully but the point being. It's something that radio could do. But because of all the consolidation that happened in the nineteen nineties where these big companies got bigger and bigger and bought up all these stations and subsequently went bankrupt. Well they can't do it because they don't have anyone left. I mean they were already cutting jobs in markets all across the united states year after year just because they have all this debt. These companies have these debt loads and they've got to cut their costs in order to deal with that so they don't have anyone left. It's gotten bad. Like i call radio stations for for free talk live right like during the day And you've done some of this work with the are calling radio stations. You talked to program directors you pitched the show to pitch freetalklive to them to get them to listen to it and consider it well. It's harder now than it's ever been to get somebody on the phone. And i'm just talking about secretary like calling up a radio station. One of these big corporate stations. Probably eight out of ten times. There's no answering no one answering at all at all no a year ago or maybe two years ago. I don't remember exactly when it was possible to talk about always reach a secretary. I mean you couldn't get the programming director nine times out a way more less frequently than that. That was a challenge back then. Now it's almost impossible so are they resorting to email now. I mean it's even difficult to reach these via email. A lot of them are working from home and so e mails going to reach him. But you don't get you know it's not the same as getting somebody to pick up a phone right. Is there anything that can save this system. Then so. I don't think that it's hard to say that a company like a heart media or cumulus has any kind of a bright future. I mean they've already been bankrupt. And so i don't know what the next i don't understand bankruptcy law and what all the different sections are or whatever but It's not good right when you go bankrupt so that's probably a bad sign. I think what you're going to see is they're going to likely sell off a lot of their stations and that will probably result in more mom and pop owners of radio stations again and i think that'll be a good thing for local radio. I think that we may see radio. Have a comeback. Possibly you know if if if you can pick up a radio station at you. Know one fiftieth of what it would have cost you twenty years ago. Maybe it's worth doing. Surena may maybe at a low enough price bottom of the barrel enough price which is what we may see happen over the next couple of years that we'll see some fresh ideas come into radio. I'm just this is optimism honestly for the for the business. I think that's the only way it's ever going to become local and relevant against actually have local owners. Come in and run this thing. And i think that. Will i think you kind of have to see that when these stations these big station groups have to liquidate their stations because that will be inevitable if they continue going bankrupt right and i can't imagine i tend to think you're correct mom and pop places. Mom-and-pop re buying these radio stations really the only way to proceed for it. I would rather see younger people. Buy them you know. I don't think their ideas into it. And i don't think you're gonna see the thing they were talking about earlier where you could just hire somebody to do a show. I don't think that's gonna happen anymore. I think that if you wanna be on the radio you'll have to just do like we did on free. Talk live where we worked for free when we started the show and this was twenty years almost twenty years ago now where we said. Hey look just put us on. The air will do the show for free. We just want to be on the air right. And that's what i would expect us. Well yeah if you. There's no other way you're going to be able to do it. You will not have enough money coming into one of operations to be able to hire staff so you'll have to truly find the people that love the art of broadcasting bring them on board and then tell them hey if you can sell some ads sell some ads split with split with the station and then everybody's happy. That's the only way it's going to work. That sounds plausible. I would love to see it. I hope so well. That's the end of that article. And there's not much left time to get into anything else of note. I've got an article here from abc. News just highlighting. How stupid people are in michigan. Man killed by a baby shower kenan because he was the explosion. I don't know what's wrong. With people between gender reveals burning thousands of acres of forest california. What is a baby shower. Cannon is this is the thing it's like my friend just had one at her baby reveal. It's like a little thing with either bluer pink dustin it and they'll like shoot it off at their gender revealed thing and if it's blue dust it's boy. I didn't think they could kill people. Don't stand in front of cannons. It's a bad plan. what did he do. He was fatally injured when a cannon exploded in a backyard during a baby shower because he was within fifteen feet of the device when the blast occurred doesn't say whether he was actually attending or whether he was next door but if he was within fifteen feet. I tend to think that is a huge explosion. You've you've seen this action. I'm just saying fifteen feet is huge. I have seen it well. He wasn't hit by the explosion. He was killed by metal shrapnel. My god what did they load into this thing. Let's just sound like a little bit of glitter that's being shot into the air if there's trump did the cannon itself explode yes oh so. Something was wrong with the device itself and used frequently and hasn't been inspected or anything so just wore away overtime and god four or five people were in the backyard when the small was fired. But this guy was standing about ten to fifteen feet away and was the only person. Shrek struck by shrapnel three-part cars and the garage where the baby shower was being held also struck oh so no he. He's just happened to be in a backyard presumably not fenced from the other property. The people who were there for the gender reveal also were not near the canon. The canon fired by the homeowner as family was celebrating a baby's pending arrival was similar to a signal cannon more commonly as a novelty item. And that sounds like what she would've been referring to like a hand held one. Because i just looked it up to try to show ian and they all looked hand held like a candle. Say this doesn't sound like it could be hand held. If if it's exploding with shrapnel hills a man i mean that seems unlikely. I know i'm laughing and that's horrible. But the the stupidity on display here. This guy bought the kennan at an auction and had fired it several times before. It's suspected that the shrapnel came from the breaking apart during the explosion is designed to create a big flash allow noise and create smoke. The kennan did not contain any projectiles but is suspected that the gunpowder loaded into the device caused the kennedy fracture resulting in shrapnel being spread in the area so he bought a real cannon. Like not the type that i was talking about at all and just tried to put like some powder in it and killed someone. That's pretty much what it sounds like. Yeah and no one at any point in any of this said hey dude. This seems like a bad idea. Can we not do this well. It's been free talk live. That's that's it for us this evening but he can fight us on the internet. In the meantime freetalklive dot com or check us out on our new social media social dot freetalklive dot com. Thanks for listening. You're welcome to another exciting adventure of jonathan gullible. As you may recall we last left. Jonathan got on a remote pacific island after his boat was blown off course by a terrific storm eager to learn about the inhabitants of this island. Jonathan approach the large screaming crowd that had gathered around a tall man in the center. The crowd grew quite as the man spoke. And jonathan saw this as a chance to ask questions we must save our young from the evil ones who are evil once there are some people use guns to force themselves on our citizens. They are criminals. There are also some wheat mary berries. They're also criminals mary berries. What is so bad about mary. Mary's mayberry's turbo. Because it makes people feel good. It's just an escape. What are they trying to escape from. There are trying to escape from reality and we have decided to put these escapees in our su- so they will do that to themselves. What if they don't want to go into zoo. We have plenty of guns to force them. And how did you decide to put mary berry. Turn into jail. We are highly civilized people and we decide good and evil by raising our hands and counting those with the fewest hands. Raised must be like the others are going to the zoo. What if the vote changes. Oh yes then. Everyone could be required to eat mary berries or go to the zoo milled. Freedom with laughter joined the community access free media clips and more or get your free. Pdf copy of the book. Go to jonathan gullible dot com now. Jonathan gullible dot com.

iran ammon bundy Bundy Tesla united states federal governme cliven bundy new hampshire los angeles times scott nevada afghanistan bundy jerusalem post tarian tuchel china bitcoin entra bonnie donald trump
Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

5:01:00 hr | 3 weeks ago

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

"So it's all done on their reporting where to gather and what's happening. It's cool that there are now five people in southwestern new hampshire who have signed up really and they're very privacy friendly you have to have certain signal in order to receive your code to create your account neat and they have a telegram which is always good. And it's got a messaging system that i have looked into the is supposedly encrypted as well. Just send messages to other users so have to say so far. I'm impressed and it sounds like if they want an app they should contact nobody and find a way of implementing. Self-rule one into this. I know that nobody are co host. Had had the intention of reaching out to that group. So i i don't know what status he has reached out to them. I think he wants to app to be like in a usable state. 'cause we inherited for listeners. That don't know cell phone. One is a an app that was created. probably like twenty fifteen by actually a listener. Freetalklive virgil the duva. And he did an amazing job at making this great little simple easy to use emergency alerts app where you can have your friends. Get the app and then You can all sort of create what they call cells. These aren't terrorist cells there peace peace sells but the idea is to to have these cells of people. You know maybe one for your family for your friends or whatever you can put them. You can have as many of these things as you want and so then at the thing is happening to you. That's bad like you know your house catches on fire. Someone's having a medical emergency the cops pull you over. You know whatever it is. That's going on. You can send an alert that goes out to the cells that you choose And it's an amazing app that has been used for a long time here in new hampshire by the activist community here in in too much success. Unfortunately virgil came into some tough personal times late last year and he wasn't able to really kind of keep up the app and these sorts of things need to be kept up. You have to like young delegate with goals dates their api and you update the thing so you can't just like release the app and just let be you gotta take care of it. And so he wasn't able to do that anymore. And the current version of the app that people can find at working depends. So if you're on it should work fine for you if you're on android there's a new version that's going to be coming out hopefully as soon as sometime later this week where process right now of trying to figure out what to do to get this thing online. There's a what's new required. So nobody's in the midst of writing nat But we're close. We're close to actually having some of what we would call showstopper level bugs fixed with cell phone once version. I'm using. I had to download from some third party app store because it was delisted from google for not being updated. Yeah and i don't know if it ever got updated get realistic. But it wasn't fixed at the time so lucky going to be fixed but it had the fix hasn't been uploaded so we will let you know when that happens. So that's why i'm saying like nobody's probably not banging down ammon bundy's door because the app isn't quite ready for primetime. Once it is. That's definitely something he intends to reach out. I look forward to beta testing it. Yeah absolutely well. There's actually a special group for that. So remind me later and i can. I can drive in there so back to the story here from the los angeles times where they're trying to smear and then bunny by suggesting that he is associated with Right wing racist groups even though he's personally in favor of union as you mentioned black lives matter andy. Funding the police. Which are i mean. Generally white supremacists like the police because generally police are white. Supremacist origins that's true. You mean catching slaves the police. Yeah that's right so according to l. a. times dot com. The investigators looked into the group which is called people's rights their website people's rights dot org. They found the network had twenty thousand members in sixteen states in an interview late last month near his home in idaho. Bundy claimed it had grown to almost fifty thousand people in thirty five states last. La times realized that the more stories like this they write the more people sign up for people's rights dot org. I don't know but don't tell them because this is good last fall. Facebook removed an undisclosed number of people's rights pages from its platform after deeming the network a militarized social movement. Well now. I know i'm interested. Yeah facebook saying it's bad than it must be worth looking at it so far. Nothing i've seen on here is bad. I mean they basically asked the same thing the cell phone and one s you know when the police show up or you did help who. You're going to call your friends because your friends won't shoot you. They ask almost literally the same question here. So who will you contact when your rights are threatened. You will call your neighbors. Yeah they're like less likely to shoot you the almost entirely unlikely to shoot you. Bundy said his soul cause was defending freedoms guaranteed under the constitution. Even for lgbtq people in black lives matter activists whose views he may oppose now again. That's not a quote from bundy. That's just what the l. a. times he never said i'm curious now. What his utah. Lgbt people are. I mean he's probably a right wing conservative. But i don't know i've never talked to the guy. He's very libertarian. Actually did we talk to him. I think we actually did talk. To one of the bundy's. I may have talked dam and bundy in the past honestly but it's been a very long time so going on here. He said he never supported. President trump and he didn't vote in the last two presidential elections in two thousand sixteen. He was in prison awaiting trial in this past november. He didn't see a point. So i mean obviously. He's not your typical if he's a conservative. You ain't your typical now. He is definitely closer to libertarian. Based on everything i've seen. He has conservative in contending the twenty or the kobe nineteen death. Toll is massively exaggerated. he said. That trump should've worked harder to keep churches and businesses open nonetheless. He encouraged his followers to go to washington for the now infamous january sixth rally to distribute leaflets display people's rights banners to recruit more members. He did say that. He condemned the siege on the capital. Was that because it was pointless and it didn't achieve anything or is was some some angry republicans role playing as protesters. Apparently he was also arrested. According to a photograph here in this article in the idaho state house in boise on august twenty six th of last year was arrested and wheeled out in an office chair or what appears to be a wheelchair here so maybe a little civil disobedience it looked like not sure what that was about. Bundy is carrying out a family tradition. He is the fourth of thirteen children in a mormon family. Grew up on. Nevada ranch. Seventy four year old. Father cliven became a hero to extreme libertarians. In the west. We extreme libertarian. That sounds cool when they say like that. Extreme libertarian extremist libertarian-leaning deed when he stopped paying grazing fees in nineteen ninety-three claiming his family had ancestral rights to run its cattle on public land. And that the government's ownership claims violated the constitution and in bundy left. The ranch is a young man. I for minnesota for two years of mormon mission service and then to southern utah university later moving to phoenix where he ran a truck repair business for fourteen years in two thousand fourteen. He stood with militias. That rallied behind his father's 'cause when fbi agents arrived at the nevada ranch with a court order to confiscate the family's cattle the government backed down to avoid bloodshed raising the family stature in far right circles and the part of the storm right. Yeah i thought. They said he was libertarians. That was his fans. Well that's what they said. The media loves make libertarian. Seem like right wingers. That's what they like. Yeah they they want to try to make. Libertarians seem even more far right. Then anyone else even though the reality of it is is libertarians. Agree with right wingers on some things and left-wingers on other things embarrassing what part i don't want people to think i'm a right winger. Unfortunately on my way to make them think. I also am the chairman of the republican committee. Which is a whole other issue entirely. But i've also been a democrat and run for for governor called a leftist a lot to. I'll do whatever. I need to do to get the ideas of liberty out basically but according to this now the thing. They're not mentioning here. Oh no they do mention it okay. So an important point about the original bundy's story. Is they charged a bunch of these people in the bundy ranch situation and weren't they all acquainted. Almost all of them were acquitted except for the ones that took plea deals. This is why you don't take the plea. You really shouldn't the next year. Bundy and his wife moved to emmet idaho which is farming town. Turn bedroom community. Outside of boise. He said that god had called him to support. Dwight him in junior and his son steven oregon ranchers sentenced to prison for setting fires on federal lands and in january of two thousand sixteen. He led an armed group that seized headquarters the headquarters of the malheur. Federal wildlife refuge demanding. The government relinquish in three the hammett's did they do so. Of course that's tragic but still a for effort man. That's hard core taking over federal building. They did and they occupied it for like forty something days more on this story. We'll get back six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty you think is he just troublemaker. Is he an anarchist. What is he is he just out there trying to put it. May maybe even honeypot six zero. Three two eight three six one six zero. This is free talk live. some of you asked. And now we've delivered l. r. n. dot fm. Live keene new hampshire studio shows are now streamed in hd on twitch visit our channel at twitter dot l. r. n. fm and give it a follow. If you have amazon prime you get one free subscription on twitch if you use it on our channel which will give l. r. n. dot fm. A monthly piece of your prime subscription cost. So please watch follow share and subscribe to twitch dot l. r. n. dot fm that's twitch dot l. r. n. dot fm. What if the united states and the soviet union had fallen landis air and the astral plane struggled for dominion across parallel dimensions or on the surface of the moon. Wonders have been unveiled what terrorists would have haunted. Mankind most dark and dismal dimensions come closer appear through a glass darkly and discover the horrifying alternative visions world war three from some of today's greatest minds in science fiction. Fantasy and horror weird world war three available. Now from bain books at bain. Books dot com. Look i'm sorry but you're in for a world of pain. If you use coin omi the reason is their wallet. Doesn't support payments. The solution is simple. Let them hear your voice message. Coin me on twitter. It takes five seconds and tell them any sense you because they're on the fence right now and your voice will prove that people care about using bitcoin for payments. Go tweet at coin omi now or even better. Leave a review in the app store. They really pay attention there. Thanks so you've heard all three hours of the latest episode of free talk live and you're still hungry for liberty oriented audio content. Did you know that we have another twenty. Four seven audio stream at l. Aren in dot. Fm the liberty radio network airs. The latest episodes of some of the best liberty oriented podcasts on the internet around the clock in addition to recorded content. You'll also hear live shows like free. Talk live originating from our keene new hampshire studio so listen anytime at l. Rn dot fm. that's elo ren dot fm. You'll listening to the hot land. Use feed radio network at live dot heartland fee dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter and instagram's the public service newscast tonight not twenty one. The second impeachment trial of donald trump begins this afternoon. The hill reports party meters came to agreement monday. And how it will go. The hill knows under the time line would allow the trial to wrap up as early as next week. If both sides agreed out to call witnesses under the deal. The senate will debate and vote tuesday on whether the trial is unconstitutional. That is basically a nonstarter on wednesday. They'll be opening arguments under the deal. The house impeachment managers and trump team will have sixteen hours over two days each to present their case to the senate meantime after a fourteen year. Old black boy in north carolina was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car in front of his home while repeatedly asking for his father who was inside the home the voice family and community advocates are questioning local. Police protocol involving juveniles. Malcolm ziglar had recently purchased a motorbike from facebook seller and was unaware. The bike was stolen after police officers showed up at his home. He complied with requests from law enforcement and was released ties ziegler. Malcolm's mother says her son like many other young black has experienced firsthand. the trauma caused by negative interactions with police. She says she's concerned that despite repeatedly asking for his father his request was denied by the officers. She's demanding policy and procedural changes for interactions involving minors. The what i'm looking for is change. That is what i'm advocating. Because i don't want their child to ask for this parent hair. it and be denied. I'm audio ramleh. Gone some of west. Virginia's lawmakers are proposing abolishing the state's personal income tax during this year's legislative session social services. Avid say the move would be devastating for children and families. The lost income would total more than two billion dollars forcing nature cuts to state agencies including the bureau for children and families. According to jim mckay with prevent child abuse west virginia. The state's child protective services. Division is still struggling to catch up from budget cuts during the great recession. He says he points out. Mingo county still has only one. Cps worker for the entire area who handles cases for more than seventy children. That's just heartbreaking. We know there are vacancies across the state in child protection services. And if there's budget cuts of the nature that it's being proposed. Many of those physicians will remain unfilled with devastating consequences. Lawmakers say that eliminating personal income tax would attract more people to live and work in west virginia. I'm diane bernard this is p. Ns electric buses and other heavy vehicles or taking to the streets nationwide lily bulky reports for soundbites sourced. Many of them are powered with batteries manufactured in south carolina. David clayton with clemson. University's international center for automotive research says the fleet services sector appears to be among the first to turn away from diesel and internal combustion engines in favor of going electric that includes companies such as fedex and amazon but also port the cranes in vehicles that handle cargo vote because it makes sense for their business. It's more cost effective approach in some cases. But you know. They have sustainability mandates and targets that they're trying to achieve per tara the electric battery and charging station manufacturer with one plant in greenville and another near los angeles also was working with leading construction equipment manufacturer to electrify off road equipment. President joe biden announced plans to replace the government's fleet with electric vehicles wyoming lawmakers considering a proposal that would require a governor's order before any of the state's winter. Ilk feedlots can be phased out. Jonathan rattener with the western watersheds project says the move ignores basic science and warns. It would make it much more difficult to address. The potential for permanent chronic wasting disease contamination across western wyoming. They're making it much harder to solve this problem. By some ending in the current status quo which was developed approximately one hundred years ago prior to any understanding of disease transmission issues or wildlife management ethics conservationists. Sworn that feedlots where large numbers of l. gathering close quarters are potential super spreading events for the disease livestock producers and outfitters have defended winter. Lots to keep elk away from cattle feed and maintain large herd numbers. I'm eric gladys and finally our ticket off has been talking with an idaho congressman who may have taken the first step on tangling the tricky dot of dams in the northwest and their effects on salmon representative mike simpson has laid out a thirty three billion dollar columbia basin fund while it includes breaching the four lower snake river dams. It also addresses replacing their benefits such as energy and irrigation for local agriculture. Brian brooks heads the idaho wildlife federation. He says it's critical. Lifeline for the region's endangered salmon and steelhead finally. Finally someone giving attention to this issue because it is such a big problem because it's gonna require a big solution. Simpson is giving at the attention. It serves simpson has been working on the plan for three years and has held three hundred meetings with stakeholders over that time. More than a dozen fish species have become endangered. dams were constructed. This is by clifford. Four public news service. We are remember. Listener supported great radio stations across the nation and a line at public new service dot. Org here's a look at weather from the hotline news. Feed weather center today mostly cloudy and cold with a high temp nia nineteen. Tonight's a slight chance of snow after midnight. Later turning into freezing rain low around sixteen there is a chance of snow before eleven am wednesday later turning to a snow sleet mixed high near twenty one. That's the latest weather checkout more news and weather on our website at heartland newsfeed dot com suggested earlier that i you just do a simple search for double masking on twitter and this was actually been our money suggestion. I just pass it along to you. Former freetalklive co host. Who moved to sign pan last year. He's been just on it with some really interesting twitter posts and this whole double masking thing is truly truly like religious zealotry. Yeah i had to stop at this one and you just share it with people on the air as per some experts recommendations doesn't even know why she's putting onto masters just because quote. Some expert told her to truly truly sad. But that's not really what we're talking about here to know how. I'm sure we'll get into it at some point. I want to get back to the bundy story. Because i find that far more encouraging for the future of freedom than i do these idiots putting on to mass for some reason. I well somebody else did it. So they're going to do it to someone. Some authorities said so so okay but anyway. The ammon bundy did check. By the way we interviewed ryan bundy which is one of the brothers of annan bundy's so in the past this was in two thousand fourteen after the wildlife. Nothing that was before the wildlife refuge situation but after the cliven bundy oka standoff so for listeners just tuning in ammon is the son of cliven bundy and he's the guy who led the wild wildlife refuge Situation in two thousand sixteen. Where a i don't know. A couple of dozen people occupied this federal property and it was in the middle of the winter time so it wasn't like they took over an active like on site. It was shut down for the winner. Okay and they took that over. And then according to the story at the los angeles times the oregon ranchers are sorry. The so bundy led this group in two thousand sixteen that seized the headquarters of the malheur refuge. Bundy was arrested during a traffic. Stop outside of the refuge and eventually tried on weapons and conspiracy charges a militant who fled the stop was shot and killed the that man had a name. I forget what. It was offhand. But they're just referring to him as a militant it by the way the man who fled the stop was not a danger to anyone he did not shoot at anyone but the cops murdered him right there running away. That's correct in a startling verdict. In october of two thousand sixteen bundy and other defendants were acquitted by jurors who found the federal prosecutors had failed to make their case. Wow yeah it was an amazing verdict. A series of verdicts more than one documentary about this. Because it's a good question. I don't know the families. Aura of invincibility only grew when a judge declared a mistrial in a criminal conspiracy case against bundy his brother ryan who interviewed and their father for the two thousand fourteen nevada ranch standoff saint government lawyers had suppressed the cattle outside of bunkerville nevada continue to graze on public land despite more than one million in unpaid fees bundy kept a low profile back in idaho where he managed rental properties and restored vintage vehicles with his children but the pandemic and resistance to the government telling people what to do set the stage for his return to activism. I love it. You can't keep a good actes down nope once you've once you've stood up for freedom you don't ever want to cower again. Yeah once you've told the state no you want to keep telling no that's right in march because that is what freedom ultimately is is the freedom to say no and be respected in your choice because we can say no and they'll put you in jail cell right. But in his case he actually was able to say no and they didn't put him in a jail cell because people on juries actually back them up which is amazing so in march he gathered several dozen supporters in a warehouse that he owns in idaho in his first public. Act of the group defied republican governor. Brad little stay at home directive and held an easter service for about sixty people now by the way at the same time we were doing. Some public acts here in new hampshire and we have not gotten the same media coverage now to be fair. We didn't have as many people. Didn't we go to an easter service. Actually you and. I don't know if it was easter but we did go to a church service and it was too late in the year to be easter. But we did nightcap. So when the governor here in new hampshire christie new created his so called stay at home order we went out the same night it went into effect. That's correct we went out. We were literally there a minute. After it went into effect like at the exact same time we were out partying with open containers in central square. And we did it for thirty six weeks in a row and the only reason we stopped is because it's like seven degrees and six inches of snow everywhere right now presumably when it's warmer will we. Hopefully we won't have to return. But i'm sure nightcap will return if only because it was a good time was a damn good time. I went to a newest one. That's right just one was it. Just i think just went. Well you'll have to come back to more. Because i suspect there will be a demand to bring it back This year so anyway. In their first act they went and held a church service. Which can people being told not to do this. In the same month police arrested. Sarah brady and anti vaccine activists for allegedly trespassing during an anti out protests at a playground closed due to corona virus restrictions. That's we've had something similar happen here. lady in concord was arrested at the playground but later on several months later for taking her kids to a playground. That was closed. Why did they arrest her several months later. What did they arrest her for. I don't recall i. i think it was disorderly. Okay i think her name is rochelle. She actually was at our new year's eve party. Oh as a matter of fact she was one wearing. The tide is short and she was doing dancing so bundy publicize the address of the officer. Who arrested ms brady and lead about forty people to protest. Outside of his home a tactic. The governor called disgusting. But i fully support. They picked up this lady at her home. That's right the one we're talking about anyway. These government bureaucrats think that they should just be able to keep their jobs separate from their home. Lives they that. We should respect the idea that they should have privacy in their family lives in their personal homes and so on and so that their off duty after five o'clock in the afternoon i will allow that if they're laws will stop going into effect when they're at home right when they're like. Oh no. i'm not the governor. Now i'm just chilling with my found. Now okay then you're laws. Don't apply right now. As soon as they stop arresting people in their homes as soon as they stop ruining people's lives by arresting peaceful people for not harming others than i will respect them and leave them alone in their homes people's homes just when they get a piece of paper from themselves saying that it's okay correct. Yeah man in a writes a piece of paper and then men with guns come in and ruin people's lives shoot. Dogs shoot innocent peaceful people. They cats just look that up since you here. Are they look cats to you. What possible threat is a cat to a human being well. They've shot caged dogs before. So i mean what possible threat because that have been any more the the more this discussion goes on so people's rights continued to expand establishing hundreds of chapters that bundy organized with the aim of being able to dispatch ten protesters to seen in ten minutes. One hundred in one hundred minutes in thousand in one thousand minutes instructed each chapter to launch teams to train in secret for paramilitary operations to defend members from criminals or government agents. Or do i repeat myself. That line was not in the la times but anyway going on in july. He led demonstrators to public building in idaho in town called cal well where they tried to barge into a meeting of officials who are discussing whether to impose a local mask mandate. This is not your building. Bundy shouted as he shoved demand guarding the doorway. The meeting was cancelled though. The health board eventually decided to recommend wearing masks in public the next month and some supporters forced their way past state troopers into an idaho. State house gallery that was closed. Because of the pandemic how do they. That doesn't sound like reality. How do you force yourself past state troopers without getting arrested. Well a police did arrest him twice in two days. Finally wheeling him out of the building in an office chair charged with trespassing obstructing officers he was banned from the capitol for a year in november people's rights members carrying tiki torches. Gathered in front of the boise mayor. Lauren mcleans house to protest. Run virus health restrictions. Many of their roughly thirty demonstrators. Were not wearing masks and several shouted opposition to a city call for residents to report businesses violating pandemic regulations. One woman yelled. Snitch is get stitches to love. It sounds like he's doing good work. Yeah there's more if you want it. Absolutely what do you think about the bundy's it sounds to me like they're they're doing the right now. I support it. I haven't seen anything here. That i disagree with so far so far just about everything. I've seen more men activism has been just awesome true. they're also behind the goldbach hornets. That was one of the activists things. I was thinking about six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty s to call online that six zero three two eight three six one six zero. This is free talk live. Are you tired if governments murdering people around the world stop using their money. There is alternative. Bitcoin is a stateless free market. Non-political currency bitcoin cannot be inflated or controlled by any government by using their money. You are helping the state stop doing it. You have an incredible alternative available now learn it use. It spread it get started with bitcoin. Bitcoin dot com. That's bitcoin dot com. 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This is the onion week in review sources reported today that ten year old brandon thomas who is currently homesick at his friend. Kevin sleepover needs to just tough at the kowt felt like playing xbox right now the pathetic little bit who claims he just doesn't feel like eating any birthday cake or joining in any activities with his friends. Frankly needs to grow a pair because his parents only ten minutes away for christ's sake here's what the pansy had to say for himself. I wasn't crying just allergies. I wanna go home. What what's in other news a voicemail for mom is deleted three words in and a man with nice is is blown all right now with you. I can't have you seen me like this for more visit. The onion dot com slash newspeak. The onion news network the dot. Fm social media channels have been revamped. We've eliminated facebook and focused on other platforms like twitter and mastodon the decentralized alternative to twitter on our accounts you'll find posts from multiple l. r. dot fm show host together in one place. Follow us on twitter at twitter dot l. Our end on fm or better yet move to the decentralized mastodon social media platform at toot dot l. r. n. dot fm t. o. T. don l. dot fm. I think you'll like it. My name is jacob hornberger. I'm president of the future of freedom. Foundation which congressman ron. Paul awarded for having an outstanding freedom website. Riotous at f f f f f f dot org and. We'll send you a free three months. Subscription to our monthly journal of libertarian essays and our booklet economic liberty in the constitution which george mason university economics professor walter williams praised in a recent column. That's f f f f f f dot org. Our matrix server is about as free as internet chat can be joined the existing rooms or create your own at chat dot freetalklive dot com. It's free talk. Live talk about whatever you want. Six zero three two eight three six point. Six zero is the call in line with you tonight. It's funny and in. And i assumed the three of us are going to be at rogers campground for june. The twenty eighth three july. The fourth for four fest. Twenty twenty one at rogers campground in beautiful white mountains of new hampshire. It is the week after the porcupine freedom festival and is decentralize which means that no one is in charge which means that everyone is in charge. Nossa means there's no ticket cost just reserve your camping site. Rv side or motel room with rogers campground for june. The twenty eighth three july the fourth last year that it was epic there was a rock concert. There was a poker tent that was active almost every night. Several party tents. If i remember correctly a great place to be check it out at four fest dot party there's an unofficial telegram chat. There's an unofficial forum for up party june. The twenty eight through july the fourth at rogers campground boise there again. Fork fest up. Party is the website. Well let's go to the phones. Apparently some sports ball thing happened over the weekend. And i heard about that. Some people are really upset. Tell us about that turned ferguson. Yeah well i Heard earlier today that That particularly i mean the most insane people in my opinion. And i've been calling for over a year on how insane the less has been becoming. They're really angry that the tampa bay buccaneers beat the kansas city chiefs over the weekend and not because not because they like the not because they yuks are the better team not because they Support the accident in any any measurable amount more than and then to kansas city chiefs. But only because tom brady. Who is the quarterback. I guess who who. I guess at some point got traded to the buccaneers Because he white and and the Quarterbacks the chiefs is black. And they're mad that the white quarterback beat the black quarterbacks. They're really offended about this. Where are you seeing this. I haven't seen this well well. There's there's a twitter storm that's been kicking up Among some of the blue checkmark woke politics. morons out there Including commentators. Lisa and michael smith. Michael holly the end of any of these people are. I wouldn't say that. This reflects on all leftist. Just seems like you saw some crazy people talking on twitter of presumably there's black and white people on both teams usually i. I didn't say anything about race on both sides but listen but these are just some of the The liberals that've been Really angry and upset that That the black quarterbacks for the white quarterback by the way wait black quarterback beat the white quarterback keesa quarterbacks. Beat the black quarterback. Oh yeah yeah. The white quarterback feet the black quarterback. Tom brady yeah. That's the only they're mad about this by the way see. I be mad about the lack of masks once the game was over. This just makes me. I mean sports to me is pretty mindless as but that makes it even dumber for people to be arguing about sports because one guy has a ki skin color that they don't like i mean that's basically what you're talking about. Seems like a small group of people. I haven't heard of this phone. You said it was a twitter storm. Whatever that means. Yeah uh-huh and by the way i should say this is this is. This is pretty insane to be fair out of us. Accidentally like monitoring twitter or watching twitter feeds or anything like that no. I do go on twitter on occasion. While i'm on the toilet Just twitter belong just to see what some people who haven't made the switch to mastodon are still doing over there and by the way i should say that i'm not the one we saw this on twitter. The independent media is covering this big already because of how much blowing up on twitter but these people are also mad. Because tom brady for four years ago was seen with a maga hat in his locker. And they're angry because he he wasn't canceled ever because of that you wasn't fired or cancelled because He owns a maga half and and that also was really upsetting to the liberals and And i think this is being so upset over. What other people do you know what other people are spending their money on their time on. I mean these people obviously obviously have nothing better to do. Maybe that's because they've locked themselves in their homes for the last year and they just don't have a life they have nowhere to go right. I don't know. And i just don't understand the obsession with other people's anything. Well keep in mind. These are all the brunch liberal to these are all the liberals that have everything handed to them on a silver platter and And it's really funny. I think because You know jerome always calls it and talk about. What a racist donald trump is and and how he's been life been like this this This this this really obnoxious unpleasant and Dividing racist over the past four years when he was the president. But it's happens to be the liberals here that are mad that Just a white guy. Beat a black guy and i would really like to hear what jerome has stayed about that because this isn't coming from donald trump this is coming. I shouldn't call on a weekend jerome. I think is exclusively a weekend radio listener. So he's probably barbara. We're just gonna say turned ferguson. Is really generalizing here. He's talking about all. I don't like any generalizing. And he's talking about all leftists. All are dumb enough to act like this and i really don't think that there's a big problem of people talking about this. Even twitter has some people being loud about it. I'm not generalizing. I'm just i'm i'm talking about really i'm talking about really fifty people here and i even named off a couple of them specifically who are acting like a bunch of mork and i miss morons on twitter tired. Thank you so much for the call the update you read off some names from people that i've never heard of who sounds like they're saying some pretty stupid things. If you want to find morons on twitter just search for double masking plenty there. I think is more interesting. That nobody's wearing masks in tampa all the sudden. I have a friend from italy. And she lived in italy of twenty twenty but she just moved to florida and she put posted a video of herself. That like a club or a bar in tampa like the night of the super bowl and she was panning around the room. It was just a bunch of young people really close to each other dancing and talking and drinking and none of them like there was like one mask and the entire video. I washed do i. I was stunned. When i saw the ending of the super bowl because we watched it at work and the number of people not wearing masks in their booths and as they mingled and they celebrated with people after the game it was encouraging to see so few people wearing masks. I remember remarking at that moment. I bet this is already going viral on twitter from people complaining about the fact that they're not wearing mess. That's what i expect people to be upset about. Not the fact that tom brady is white and the other guy was black. That is of no consequence whatsoever. Except for people who obsessive race and people who obsess over people who obsess over race. Yeah i'm just rolling through here looking at people talking about double masking and how proud they are about it. Definitely virtue signaling. A some of them are saying that it hurts their ears but they're doing it anyway because some experts said so. I thought it was more comfortable ono though some are say. Hey you know everybody's got a different opinion about it but some of them are saying. It is more comfortable to wear the double mask. Here's one person presumably just shopping stops to take a selfie of herself and tax it double masking at the best buy. Yep she just wants to show everybody yes. There is no other points this. I've never just been walking through. The store thought now. It's a great time to stop and take a selfie. Well i do that. A double masking. Now what do you think about this virtue signal. Maybe turned his right. Maybe it's a problem what these people are saying on twitter. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero against six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero congressman recently revealed that legislation totaling twenty nine hundred pages and involving more than one. Trillion dollars was available to members of congress for less than forty eight hours to study and consider that's over sixty pages of legislation per hour. Do you think anyone read the entire bill. I'm jim babka with downsize. Dc dot org consider proposal buried in thirty two hundred page three hundred eighty eight billion dollar bill which empowered committee chairman or their agents to examine americans tax returns when this will provisions came to light. No one claiming know how it got into the bill. One congressman questioned said. I didn't write it. I didn't approve it. I wasn't even consulted. If your attorney represented you this way he might be disbarred but this is how congress represents you every day. that's why downsize dc dot org created the read. The bills act. You can force congress to read their bills before they passed them at downsize. Dc dot org. Why did you move to the shire. I moved here to the shire. Because there's other people around who take liberty just as seriously as i do. I moved to the shire. Because i saw videos of people challenging authority and thought that i could get support myself. It called to me like do this right now. I wanted to be around people like me. Who got it and once i got here i knew there was nowhere else i wanted to be. I've always wanted to change the world. So i moved to the shire to join people who were actually working towards doing the same thing. The people here are awesome loving and positive it was for the adventure and for the feeling of something important is happening here and i just wanted to come to sort of be part of that. Visit shire society dot com to read and sign the shire society declaration and learn the reasons. Why if you love liberty you immigrate to the shire. Plus connect with others via the forum at shire society dot com. That's shire society dot com. Bitcoin dot com has launched a trading platform at local bitcoin dot com allowing you to buy or sell bitcoin cash via dozens of payment methods like paypal then mo bank deposit remittances or meeting in person with cash. 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I'll add more channels if not we can shut them down and go internet. Only it's up to you. Thank you for your support f. u. n. d. dot l. r. n. dot fm. You can stick it to the man and big tech join our social mastodon add social dot freetalklive dot com. It's free talk five. Six zero three two eight three six one. Six zero is the the of mind with you tonight. It's alright and bonnie and we're talking about militias here and then we got distracted with this nonsense about basketball on twitter because that's where you'll really see some stupidity which you want to see and of course. I do love looking as deputy from the outside but while we doing that. I felt courageous. Decided to search twitter for triple mask. N- disappointed. there are plenty of people who have already started wearing triple have and do you think you. It means they care three times as much exactly. Money explains rather well as you found then was the one who suggested searching for double masking the first place and as he points out on his twitter at vin armani. He says that double masking is a thing. Helps you understand that you're dealing with a religious phenomenon. When masks become mandated as they are in a lot of the united states right now and elsewhere in the world wearing the mask is no longer a signal of church of woke membership. Therefore the second mask must be added to signal willing participation and indeed. When you see the people with the double masks what you'll see a lot of cases is that they will purposely wear contrasting masks so they'll have like a white mask and then oversaw or over top of a black mask or vice versa or something like that that way you know that. They're wearing masks. It clear right because if they were wearing the exact same type of mask you'd have to look carefully. You'd have to really look at them to see if they were wearing masks may not know how much they care right. So it's important for them to signal that and yeah so this person on twitter says i can't believe some of y'all aren't triple masking yes and this is serious right. These are people being totally serious. I've always been double masking sometimes. Even triple masking. I prefer no masking. I bet they weren't about. They've just been doing massgov. I've always been triple asking. It's it's distressing but we are covering good news at the moment or at least refreshing news. That isn't about crazy people. It's about people actually fighting for their rights and therefore the people at the los angeles times think that's crazy. Well of course they do but they also think that you know wearing three layers of fabric over your faces. A good idea for politician said so so therefore it must be true and some experts. According to this person on twitter said so Do you want to continue with the ammon. Bundy absolutely going on there so listeners Just tuning in. We're talking about an bundy's new organization and new. As of the last year it he created it. I think in march of twenty twenty called people's rights the website is people's rights dot. Org to the los angeles times credit. They did link to his website. So that was nice So but now they've everything they can to bad mouth him Since that point but They're talking about how this organization has chapters all across the united states now he is claiming as many as fifty thousand members of this group and the idea is that it's a group of people. Maybe they don't all agree on everything but they will come together to the defense sort of the mutual defense of other people in their network when called upon and we sort of liken this to sell four one one which is an app that does similar things that hopefully. We'll have some good news for you about later on this week but Just to bring you up to speed here so back to the story here from the los angeles times talking about some of the activism that they've done over the last year like going to the boise mayor's house and protesting outside carrying torches and there were a couple dozen demonstrators out there not wearing masks shouting to a city call for residents to report businesses for violating pandemic regulations. They also protested in the state house. Where bundy was twice arrested in two days there and is now banned from the capitol for year as a result. About what about the rights of a citizen to petition. You know there are senators representatives or whatever doesn't matter they'll ban you from wherever they want in fact. They banned footloose frank. Who was arrested at the governor's house from coming back within a thousand feet of the governor's house really. Yeah as part of his bail conditions. So i didn't hear that. In the next month boise area health board shut down. Its own meeting after a county. Commissioner tearfully interrupted the proceedings to say she had to rush home because people's rights demonstrators. Were harassing her. Family actually saw this clip. It's pretty entertaining. It's probably not them harassing her family. It's just them protesting outside. She says my twelve year old son is home alone right now and protesters are banging outside the door. She said when people didn't flip out there she left her twelve year old home alone. I mean i was staying home by myself. And i was twelve years old. But that's not acceptable in today's society. Staying at home at like seven was babysitting twelve. The interview last month held at a restaurant in emmett. Idaho where he lives wear masks are optional. And few people wear them bunny. Bundy defended his group's method. The government and society are deteriorating courts are unjust legislature tramp legislatures trample rights and families allow the state to educate and influence their children. We can't disagree with any of that. He's right people will need more and more to be able to find security. He said and he said protests could achieve results much faster than lawsuits citing a demonstration that his group staged at a june hospital or at last june at a hospital in olympia washington. Hospital officials at the time weren't allowing a couple to be with their newborn after the mother tested positive for the corona virus quote within an hour and a half. We had a couple of hundred people there at a couple of thousand people coming. Once the hospital started to see there was literally a presence of people. They retracted their position. Blamed it on the government's health department and released the baby to the parents angela. Effective yep a providence saint. Peter hospital spokeswoman disputed the accuracy of bundy's account but said that the patient confidentiality prevented her from discussing. The case asked whether hospital staff members were given a chance to explain their reasoning for isolating. The baby bundy said no. He said you don't get to take somebody's baby and thank you. Have a side of justice. It was black and white last month at the hospital protests in vancouver washington kelly stuart the people's rights coordinator for the area narrated a livestream video on bundy's youtube account that ultimately attracted more than seventy thousand views. The videos of protests are trying to pry open the locked double doors and a deputy spraying chemical irritant in his face. The protesters cheered when the hospital released. Meyer whose tearful daughter wheeled her out and helped her into a van freedom. A man yelled stewart along time. Bundy compatriot berated law enforcement for siding with the hospital. Instead of the protesters she said that right wing activists who joined back the blue rallies last summer and waved american flags with blue lines had been duped quote. We're starting to learn your actually the standing army. Our founders warned us against there just dangerous tired. She said we're having a blue line flag burning party tonight bravo. Oh better late than never for sure. I love the say. Credit to richard reid. The author here. That's a great way to end that story. That stand that's the ending that they're going blue. Burn the blue line flags that's awesome. That's not a bad idea either. But i don't want to encourage the blue line flag people by buying them in order to burn them similarly they already had them because they were supporters during their own blue line flags in that case which is awesome. That is a good innings. I hope they made video of that too. That would have made a great video. It's good to see that you know. His activism is proving successful and that people are beginning to see the police for what they are. Which are the enforcers of tyranny for the state. They're not anything else. No doubt and it's also good to see them using as you mentioned earlier the technology Like telegram signal. These are better than facebook kind of organizing methods. They're not the best they're they're still centralized you know. Telegram is still a company. It sure not a mega company like facebook. But it's still a company and they. They have taken down some chat rooms on their platform. So for the most safe form of chatting on the internet you gotta go with the matrix you really need to look into. You don't have to use our server but if you want to check it out go to chat dot freetalklive dot com and there. There's a instructions step by step instructions on to connect to that server and matrix is decentralized it's polycentric meaning that there's different matrix servers all around the globe so if you've got somebody that knows what they're doing we do like an. It guy he can set that up for you can have your own server or you can use one of ours. For instance you can use our server. Make your own chat room there if you want to. It is cool technology. You're right they do. Use a lot of these technologies that are very familiar to libertarians. In addition to telegram in order to even sign up for the site. You have to have signal because i sent you a text message and whatever it is that they do it has to send you an encrypted text message. They won't assume you'll receive just garbage if you don't have signal. I like that feature signal doesn't send texts anymore. They only use their their network. Now so you won't receive anything if you don't have signal six zero. Three two eight three sixty one. Sixty is the color line. You can talk about anything that's on your mind. Six zero three two eight three six one six zero. We're going to move on here at. This is free. Talk live so the protection of life. Liberty and property is is what the free state price. But it's it's an effort to move twenty thousand people who understand it's about demonstrating to the entire country. Yeah we can have a free market a truly free market making it just a great place to live. It's the world's largest trysts libertarian community and it's only getting bigger that's amazing to be able to move to other people's like passionately believe in being free and independent with the free state project is managing to do though is to put their money where their mouth is physically getting across the country and saying let's go someplace and let's demonstrate the power of these ideas. There's a lot of kind of philosophy that surrounds liberty. There's a lot of thinking about it and talking about it. But here in new hampshire people are doing one hundred one reasons liberty lifts in new hampshire documentary by free state project early. Movers watch it free at one on one reasons. Film dot com one. Oh one reasons. Film dot com. What if you want to hear the latest episode of free talk live but all you have is your phone. You forgot to download our archive and you have no data connection. You can call our listen line at six four one seven nine three zero one ninety one. That's a long distance number so you may incur charges if not listen as long as you want six four one seven nine three zero one ninety one. The free talk live. Listen line six four one seven nine. Three zero one. Nine one is oral health. Important to you if you don't like your own teeth fresh breath or kissing people then by all means. Stop listening several years ago. I met jessica armand founder and ceo of magic mutt. And i became passionate about the product that she created. And never wanna live without it it's clinically proven to whiten teeth. But i find it does much more. They want you to love my magic mode as much as i do. So they're giving you a money back guarantee plus twenty percents off go to my magic mud dot com and use coupon code f. t. l. twenty at checkout my magic mud dot com f. t. l. twenty burns. There is no such thing as attention span. According to jerry seinfeld who figures that people have an infinite attention span if you are entertaining them. Hey he's kept us from channel surfing for several decades and now he's making more millions as las vegas headliner with money and attention so scarce now effective communication skills have never been more important. Especially if you're looking for work so choose every single word. As though it was the last word the person you're speaking to will hear otherwise. It might be avoid redundancies. 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Can't be beat for branding which is a longer term endeavor you want to be the first thing that someone thinks of when they think about your product or service if you have a local business that you want kept top of mind in your community call the station if you need national reach freetalklive around two hundred radio stations. Millions of monthly listening sessions can suit all budgets. And if we don't think we're right for you we'll tell you email me. Market freetalklive dot com. Don't a moment of free talk. Live get archives daily. Vr podcast at feeds dot freetalklive dot com and kits freetalklive. Three two eight three six one. Six zero is the color line. The six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty and i wanna tell you about any pay two point. Oh it's here. In crypto payments are now faster than ever. If you're using the edge wallet hand. Cash bitcoin dot com or dash wallets in those cases. Your experiences will be smooth but some wallets aren't ready for the impressive new technology and the people behind those wallace need to hear from you. The wallet users so visit any pay. Inc dot com slash upgrade to learn. Why some popular wallets are incompatible with any pay and reach out to the wallet programmers and encourage them to make payments perfect to any pay. Nc dot com slash upgrade had a perfect payment today to the wonderful taco. Biondo in hillsborough new hampshire. I had one two today actually from mighty moose smart. Ca's new convenience store hearing cain that accepts crypto currency and gives a five percent. Discount for people paying in crypto. They just awesome. I also had perfect payment at the lucky seven for restaurant that now accepts crypto currency. Because i had them for breakfast. Yep any pay makes it so easy later. It's it's instant tommy oftentimes and we're not just saying that because the founder just walked in completely unrelated. I mean we say this. Every time we talk about any pay indeed check him out any pay inc dot com. Let's go to the phones. We got mike calling from dover mike. You're on free. Talk live hi. I just wanted to comment the that called in about the super bowl and all the action on social media about the The people are upset. Because tom brady as white and the other guys black right right right. The race is it. May it reminded me how there was a fella name. Watts was canadian. Dug in deep in history. And all this huxley and those fellas and the brainwashing. The the media. The sports is intended to be a distraction. Are you talking about nineteen eighty-four. Alan watch for canadian. And he used to have a website and they. He went over to england and read the history books. The books not on the computer read. The books. ala della guy by me. Isn't alan watts like a psychedelic Sort of something in the background there. Mike it's a. It's the same name but different person. Different guy okay well. There's no doubt that the sports is definitely the part of the bread and circuses. Right to keep people distracted and keep them ignorant about that being they sole purpose on that means. It's good to have some things that distract you from your daily life now and then and i don't think those are ideas necessarily bad everybody's got to have a hobby everybody's gotta have something to To pass the time you play video games when you get the get the time for it or Or whatever everybody's got the thing that they do that ticks away. The seconds until are inevitable demise in sports is one of those things. My dad loves sports. it's really cute. Well i did see that. The super bowl is at the lowest ratings it has had in decades. Apparently thousand five was the last time it was this slow. I thought it was. I mean they said decades. I didn't look at the article. That was just the headline that i saw okay so i didn't look at any articles about it either. So that's good news for our caller there if people are if he believes that sports is this sort of opiate of the masses than that means that fewer people are watching at the very least watching football american football. Mike thank you so much for the call. Yeah he needs to get his phone under control a little noisy there. I started hearing stuff in the background. I was like. I've got to put a stop to this about that. So rush limbaugh is ailing and so is the conservative. Talk radio industry and i picked this. Because i know it's a topic that you love discussing. At least i did not know. I was not aware that the talk radio industry is predominantly conservative. Didn't know that no. Oh yeah absolutely. There was a time in the arts over a decade ago when the leftist tried to like do talk radio and they launched a thing called air america and it just it sailed over like a lead balloon. I mean it did not go very well. They had a bunch of money like venture capital investor types and they ran out of money and shut down there are there are probably no more than a handful of quote unquote progressive talk stations broadcasting in america. Today and we've been stations say tend to be younger people in young people. Don't listen to the radio. I mean that could be a factor in it but for whatever reason there's just not a whole lot of money guess in people being willing to sponsor those stations for some reason. I don't know why that is so rush limbaugh. The most successful talk radio host in history is ailing and so is the medium medium. He revolutionize over the last thirty years based with aging and shrinking audiences competition from newer technologies and financial problems for the biggest station. Owners talk radio is in decline both as a business and a political force once the leading platform for popularizing conservative candidates and policies. Talk radio is now on the verge of becoming background. Noise drowned out by cacophony of voices on podcast cable. Tv and social media. Who's writing the story. Msn dot com. You find them to be exaggerating. Well i mean. I find it to be an exaggeration. The talk radio was ever any kind of a motivational thing. Or i forget the word. They use their. That suggested that it was once this great organizational thing and i think that a lot of talk show hosts wanna make themselves seem like they're that big of an influence but i don't think they are. They're just people who talk on the radio now and they have opinions and they want to believe that people will like follow them or whatever. But i don't think there's any real evidence for any of that. The formats crisis comes as big biggest. Star is battling to stay on the air indeed. He's battling for his life. Limbaugh seventy has been frank about his struggle with what he said. Last year's advanced lung cancer he was a smoker for a long time from what i understand. His uncertain future confronts the talk radio business and conservatism generally with the prospect of losing s. Most galvanizing figure says sleeping from a local local station. Sacrimento to nationally syndicated stardom in one thousand nine hundred eight Limbaugh has been the bullhorn behind every important conservative initiative from the contract with america in the mid nineties to the tea party movement of the obama area era to the ascent of donald trump. Not the contract with america. I've heard about this before was it. This is like where conservative. republicans pledged to be conservative. And they didn't and they made a new plaid sometime in the two thousand to the same. It sounds vaguely familiar and surprise the politicians told you ally and rush limbaugh all along the way making excuses. I'm sure for these people i mean. There's no doubt that limbaugh deserves a lot of credit for essentially being sort of the granddaddy of talk radio in its current form. So he does. He definitely deserves that credit. The article makes it sound like he's responsible for from the shift like originally. You had to pay to get a show on your radio station. And it sounds like according to this article that he was the one who came up with the idea of oh no we can just sell them airtime and they can have the show for free if they will run it. No rush limbaugh is actually one of the few page shows. Meaning that stations actually pay rush limbaugh whereas ninety nine percents of talk shows out there. Do not get paid from the stations there on. We're on one hundred and ninety radio stations over the entire week here on free talk live. So that's how many stations carried the show right and they do not pay a dime to air free talk live and that's true for almost every show that they've got on the air unless they've got rush in which case then they're paying based on their market size so larger markets pay more for rush than smaller markets. Do basically. they're going to pay about as much as they would pay a local talk show host to do that slot. Okay so rush is insanely expensive. Show sounds like it. Yeah early in the coronavirus. Pandemic limbaugh told told listeners that the virus was no worse than the common cold and the the news media had weaponized a crisis to hurt trump. he floated the fringe theory that the virus was created in a chinese laboratory as a bioweapon a few weeks before the november election. He devoted to hours of his program to a worshipful trump interview. After trump lost he amplified the president's lies about voter fraud and at one point suggested that conservative states might secede from the union and then walked that back. of course he's a coward. Yeah the next day. Trump for his part awarded limbaugh the presidential medal of freedom during the state of the union speech last year and it goes on with a little bit about trump. Limbaugh hear them. I said trump limbaugh rush limbaugh. The isn't super important because book conservative. Talk radio's foremost problem. Is how many people are listening. As who the audience they grew up with. Limbaugh is now quite cray largely people sixty five and older fewer than eight percent of those who regularly listen to talk. Radio are twenty five to fifty four according to nielsen's research meanwhile yes meanwhile plain old. Am fm radio. The primary medium for talk programs is rapidly losing ground to newer technology such as satellite radio streaming audio and podcasts. Only fifty percent of those surveyed by edison research last year listed terrestrial radio stations as their first listening choice in a car. The shifts make someone like comedian. Joe rogan libertarian. I don't know about that about that either. With a hugely popular podcast quotes that next rush. Limbaugh let's talk about the absolutely because it it's a fascinating evolution of media here and we're living at six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty six zero three two eight three six one six zero. Are we irrelevant. This is free talk. Live having taken her father's role. Sarah calhoun has fallen out. With one of our best allies. Her brother nathaniel heads into imperial philadelphia with reckless planet. Uncle thomas armed with new powers and new allies aims to remove sara from her throne and for the world of living to survive against the strings. She needs to find an impossible war ceremony. Unite the mound builder gig to enact an agent right. That will propel her. Beyond mortality servant daughter mighty. Jay butler is the newest entry in the dragon. Award-winning which wars series from books at bain books dot com. Are you tired of governments. Murdering people around the world stop using their money. There is an alternative. Bitcoin is a stateless free market. Non-political currency bitcoin cannot be inflated or controlled by any government by using their money. You're helping the state stopped doing it. You have an incredible alternative available now learn it use. It spread it get started with bitcoin. Bitcoin dot com. That's bitcoin dot com looking for great real estate investment. Consider new hampshire which is ground zero for the liberty movement. Your first call should be to mark worden from porcupine real estate. He's more than just a real estate agent. Easier new hampshire concierge. Where are the best places to live. Do you want farm city the burbs or forest do you wanna do plex multifamily buildings. So that renter's pay your mortgage their homes in all price ranges new hampshire and mark and help with financing to invest in liberty and property. Mark gordon can help real estate dot com so of you asked and now we've delivered l. r. n. dot. Fm's live keene. New hampshire studio shows are now streamed in hd on twitch visit our channel at twitter dot l. r. n. dot fm and. Give it a follow. If you have amazon prime you get one free subscription on twitch if you use it on our channel which will give l. r. n. Dot fm a monthly piece of your prime subscription cost so please watch follow share and subscribe to twitch dot dot fm. That's twitch dot l. r. n. dot. Fm you're listening to the heartland speed radio network broadcasting live tweet for seven. Feed stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter. And instagram's the public service newscaster boy tonight for twenty one on the second impeachment. Trial of donald. Trump begins this afternoon. The hill reports party meters came to agreement. Monday and how it will go. The hill nodes under the time line. It would allow the trial to wrap up as early as next week. If both sides agreed out to call witnesses under the deal. The senate will debate and vote tuesday on whether the trial is unconstitutional. That is basically a nonstarter on wednesday. They'll be opening arguments under the deal. The house impeachment managers and trump's team will have sixteen hours over two days each to present their case to the senate meantime after a fourteen year. Old black boy in north carolina was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car in front of his home while repeatedly asking for his father who was inside the home. The boy's family and community advocates are questioning local. Police protocol involving juveniles. Now ziglar had recently purchased a motorbike from a facebook seller and was unaware. The bike was stolen after police officers showed up at his home. He complied with requests from law enforcement and was released ties ziegler. Malcolm's mother says her son like many other. Young black youths has experienced firsthand. The trauma caused by negative interactions with police. She says she's concerned that despite repeatedly asking for his father his request was denied by the officers. She's demanding policy and procedural changes for interactions involving minors. So what i'm looking for is change. That is what i'm advocating. Or because i don't want their child to ask for the parents and be denied. I'm not your ramlan some of west. Virginia's lawmakers are proposing abolishing the state's personal income tax during this year's legislative session social services advocates. Say the move would be devastating for children and families. The lost income would total more than two billion dollars for signature cuts to state agencies including the bureau for children and families. According to jim mckay with prevent child abuse west virginia. The state's child protective services. Division is still struggling to catch up from budget cuts during the great recession. He says he points out. Mingo county still has only one. Cps worker for the entire area who handles cases for more than seventy children. That's just heartbreaking. We know there are vacancies across the state in child protection services. And if there's budget cuts of the nature that it's being proposed. Many of those physicians will remain unfilled with devastating consequences. Lawmakers say that eliminating personal income tax would attract more people to live and work in west virginia. I'm diane bernard this is p. Ns electric buses and other heavy vehicles are taking to the streets. Nationwide lily bulky reports for soundbites source. Many of them are powered with batteries manufactured in south carolina. David clayton with clemson. University's international center for automotive research says the fleet services sector appears to be among the first to turn away from diesel and internal combustion engines in favor of going electric that includes companies such as fedex and amazon but also port operations the cranes in vehicles. That handle cargo vote because it makes sense for their business. It's more cost effective approach in some cases but you know they have sustainability mandates and targets that they're trying to achieve tara. The electric battery charging station manufacturer with one plant in greenville and another near los angeles also is working with leading construction equipment manufacturer to electrify off road equipment just last month president. Joe biden announced plans to replace the government's fleet with electric vehicles wyoming lawmakers considering a proposal that would require a governor's order before any of the state's winter. Ill feedlots can be phased out. Jonathan rattener with the western watersheds project says the move ignores basic science and warns. It would make it much more difficult to address. The potential for permanent chronic wasting disease contamination across western wyoming. They're making it much harder to solve this problem by something. In the current status quo which was developed approximately one hundred years ago prior to any understanding of disease transmission issues or wildlife management ethics conservationists warned that feedlots where large numbers of gathering close quarters are potential super spreading events for disease livestock producers and outfitters have defended winter lots to keep elk away from cattle feed and maintain large herd numbers. I'm eric gladys finally. Our ticket off has been talking with an idaho congressman who may have taken the first step untangling the tricky don of dams in the northwest and their effects on salmon representative mike simpson has laid out a thirty three billion dollar columbia basin fund while it includes breaching the four lower snake river dams. It also addresses replacing their benefits such as energy irrigation for local agriculture. Brian brooks heads. The idaho wildlife federation. He says it's critical. Lifeline for the region's endangered salmon and steelhead finally. Finally someone giving us attention to this issue because it is such a big problem because it's gonna require a big solution. Simpson is giving the attention. It serves simpson has been working on the plan for three years in his three hundred meetings with stakeholders over that time. More than a dozen fish species have become endangered since dams were constructed. This is by clifford. Four public new service. We are members of the supported garon. Great radio stations across the nation and online at public news service dot. Org here's a look at weather from the hotline us feet weather center today. Mostly cloudy and cold with a high temp leonine tonight. A slight chance of snow after midnight later turning into freezing break. Low around sixteen. There is a chance of snow before eleven am wednesday. Later turning to a snow sleet mix high near twenty one. That's the latest weather checkout more news and weather on our website at heartlands news. Feed dot com rush. Limbaugh does video as well doesn't he. He does as i understand it. You got to pay naturally see ours is free you can watch us on t live dot freetalklive dot com or twitch dot freetalklive dot com. You can watch us later on youtube if you want to do that for whatever stupid reason by the way. I talked to jeremy from library over this weekend. They had the porcupine day festivities in new hampshire on saturday. But actually bonnie and i both went to. I took the night off from the show to go to this. This was the five year celebration at the free state. Project held to sort of call a closed their five-year move window because that started in february of two thousand sixteen so it is now over. That doesn't mean the free state project is is over. They're going to continue recruiting people to to migrate here. As as i think that they should do. I used to think that they should shut down. But they convinced they They were pretty persuasive that they've been doing really well in the last couple of years. Anyway jeremy kaufman. Who's the founder of library. Which is a decentralized blockchain based video hosting service which is an awesome thing by the way l. r. y. dot com. He was there. And i did speak with him. They are in the testing process of doing streaming library. And so we're sort of on the shortlist of shows that they they may be coming to get kicked off right. I would hope that they wouldn't kick us off because they came to us a long time ago about librarian. Freetalklive is on librarian. Freakiness on library so it seems like a no brainer that we should also be streaming to to their new website which is called odyssey o. d. y. s. e. Okay so that's sort of put a front end if you will onto the the whole library thing. So they're competing with with youtube as a decentralized system what i did learn about library streaming is it's actually still centralized so it's not peer to peer streaming. They're not doing that but they do have their own centralized streaming services like all right. We should be on that. So hopefully we'll have something to announce about that sooner. Rather than later. I keep intending to put bad movie club on library. But i haven't actually gotten around to it. We watched Shark to push versus well wolf and it was. I cannot recommend it got even as a bad movie. It was one of those made for sci-fi bad movies that you know was going to bat and it's trying to be bad for the side channel. Yeah okay and it's it's not enjoyable. There is no humor in it. I regret the fact that i watched that it was no shark. Nato then I haven't watched shark nato. I did watch shark and saw women's prison massacre and there's video of that if you wanna check out that's bad movie club dot. Us oh really. Yeah legis four-star youtube channel but us that money goes to the us government right. I didn't know so. I do not know that then. But that's the url at the moment. Yeah hey so. What do you recommend like what you've you've been doing this bad movie club. For how many weeks. Now maybe two months. What's the worst. What's the best worst movie. You've seen killer. Raccoons too dark christmas in the dark and style gloriously. Stupid no but if you really wanna go all out there and see the worst of the worst. It's dude bro. Party massacre three. Okay there is no one or two obvious dude. Bro party massacre. Three the dumbest thing you will ever watch and you will be dumber after watching that. I don't know if i wouldn't go that it's bad enough. Just reading people about double masking on twitter. It's up there with double and triple masking killer. Raccoons too dark christmas and the dark though is enjoyable. And it's i would recommend that one okay so back to the subject of talk radio. Conventional radios decline appears to have accelerated sharply during the pandemic. Yes it has. And that is due to also. It's happening to news media as far as like newspapers also was on a decline prior to two thousand twenty but definitely declining more sharply after that. And that's because frankly advertising dollars dried right up. So you know. Companies that were actually advertising on the radio in in newsprint. For instance probably television as well that we're advertising now. All of a sudden didn't have customers coming through the door so they didn't have the budget anymore to actually pay for the advertising that they were doing so you had companies that we're advertising cancelling at ads like basically saying. Hey we don't have any money anymore so we can't pay you for the ads that we already agreed to buy so some companies just same. Sorry and then. So how do you keep your radio station on the air. How do you keep your newspaper in print. If you don't have any advertisers i mean. These are historically ad driven business models in that whole business. Model just evaporated basically overnight. Thanks to the government in their various different restrictions. So it's it's tough out there for a lot of radio station owners. Although it's probably even tougher for the big mega corporations because they already had huge debt loads that their companies were struggling to pay off prior to cope it. They were already companies like iheartmedia which used to be known as clear channel and cumulus media. These are two of the largest companies in america both of them have gone through bankruptcy proceedings in the last several years last few years as the government gives them money to stay alive. That's a good question honestly. I haven't heard about that happening. It wouldn't surprise me if they have. But for whatever reason. I haven't seen the news on that. The story mentioned stat at some point and it says they filed for bankruptcy protection or something. I don't know exactly dead meets but it probably has a help. Talk media that for last year. One of the only things that we've really had to talk about has been the pandemic otherwise news has been extraordinarily slow throughout the last year. Yeah and i hate it and people are probably sick of talking about it sick of hearing about it. Daily commutes have been disrupted by stay at home orders and a new work from home culture wiping out part of radios lucrative quote. Drivetime audience unclear whether those listeners will return after the pandemic subsides traffic jams return. That is true. I saw the numbers about that. Npr was publishing and that their radio listenership dropped by like twenty five percent really. Yeah because people aren't going to work talk radio older demographics where weakness even before the pandemic said jerry. Del kalaiana and new york university business professor turned off by the hosts. Occasional nastiness and seeking younger customers mini blue. Chip companies have stopped advertising on talk. Radio shows leaving the stations with smaller sponsors. Pay less yes. Some advertisers will not by talk. Radio doesn't matter whether it's left or right wing or whatever they will not by what is considered controversial programming because they don't want to be associated with it. Don't want to be part of some sort of boycott of that kind of publicity. So they stay away from it and that has resulted in. And i think they're about to say this in in the article but that's resulted in a different kind of advertiser. You'll hear people like not that. I listened to show but i've been told that this is going on By by mark edge one of our co host that you'll hear rush limbaugh doing what they call per inquiry or per acquisition calls so or or advertisements in that means that if rush limbaugh's like promoting thing on the air and you call the number that he gives out then rush gets paid so they didn't pay rush to do the ad they pay him on the back end. If you know they sell a tractor or whatever it is that that's how it often works to advertisers as well. You know these. Vpn companies like finding youtube channel senate special url and if someone actually uses that url yet okay yeah or like affiliate links to correct so for for a company like referred for broadcaster like rush limbaugh to have to resort to affiliate links of the equipment the radio equivalent of an affiliate link. Yeah that's that's a tough time so limbaugh style talk. Radio was originally. A solution to the industry's technical and business problems by the nineteen eighty s. Am radio had lost out to the higher fidelity fm band s the preferred medium for music. The most popular kind of radio programming as rock pop country and other formats migrated to fm am stations facing exit-entry crisis. What to do the answer had news. Neither of which required high fidelity limbaugh proved to not only be wildly popular but also cost effective in eight. A savvy former. Abc radio executive. Pant they They fluff out a lot of this. All they had to do was carry rush. Limbaugh's program set aside for minutes per hour for ads. That mclaughlin's company sold to national sponsors and the station has got to sell the remaining commercial time to local advertisers and according to this they got russia's show for free that must have been the early days because that changed say nineteen eighty-eight so six zero three two eight three six one six zero. This is free. Talk live divvy. He's been a pretty good investment for free talk live their ad campaign started in september two thousand nineteen and from mid march to mid july. The values soared by ten times. It's not too late. New wallet hasn't even released yet and other things are happening that i can't even say on the radio. If you want to invest and potentially do well go to divvy project dot org. I can tell you that f. t. l. is deepening partnership with the guys from divvy project. Dot org past performances not an indication of future prophet divvy project dot org d. i v. i. project dot org. Look i'm sorry but you're in for a world of pain. If you use coin omi the reason is their wallet. Doesn't support payments. The solution is simple. Let them hear your voice message. Coin me on twitter. It takes five seconds and tell them any pay sensu because they're on the fence right now and your voice will prove that people care about using bitcoin for payments. Go tweet at coin omi now or even better. Leave a review in the app store. They really pay attention there. Thanks so you've heard all three hours of the latest episode of free talk live and you're still hungry for liberty oriented audio content. Did you know that we have another twenty. Four seven audio stream at l. aren dot. Fm the liberty radio network airs. The latest episodes of some of the best liberty oriented podcasts on the internet around the clock in addition to recorded content. You'll also hear live shows like free. Talk live originating from our keene new hampshire studio so listen anytime at l. Rn dot fm. That's l. r. n. dot fm. What if the united states and the soviet union had fallen land sea air and the astral plane struggled for dominion across parallel dimensions or on the surface of the moon. What wonders would have been unveiled. What terrors would have haunted mankind most dark and dismal dimensions come closer peer through a glass darkly and discover the horrifying alternative visions of world war three from some of today's greatest minds in science fiction. Fantasy and horror weird world war three available. Now from bain books at bain books dot com is spreading the message of liberty crypto currency and peace around the globe. Worth two dollars per month to you as you may already know. In addition to our internet feed dot. Fm broadcast on free to air satellite across north and central america as well as sub saharan africa. And we've been available on satellite for free twenty four seven since two thousand ten the laura on. 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It's free talk by with aria in and bonnie and i to say thank you to gavin. Who is tonight's amplifier. This macy's a member of the program can find out more about ended up top freetalklive dot com. This is how we get more radio stations. People who contribute to that are directly helping us do so gavin. Thank you so much for your support to join the program five dollars per month. That gets you membership into the program and a number of cool little personally like technically. We still have an apple and they call in line. There's a new but there's an app only facebook group that i don't think anyone ever really joins anymore because now about that anymore. Yeah yeah but other coal little stop check out app dot freetalklive dot com to learn more about it gavin. Thank you so much. We hope you continue helping us. Get more radio stations. The new cool thing is the amps or slash supporters. Chat room that we have on the matrix server. So if you're a freetalklive amplifier all you gotta do is just send me a message on the matrix server and there's instructions on how to do this whenever you sign up for the program. I'll send you the instructions on how to do this. But you send me a message with your amputee male. So i know it's actually you and then i will add you to that room. That's very cool. yeah. Facebook They they are really in decline these days. Man i've looked at the calculator during thing but since the first ban in october not the ipad but the abandoned october shortly after the news about my campaign went viral. I have been unbanned exactly thirteen days. Are you in right now. Yes what's the latest one for This time i don't know man. I mentioned something about bitcoin okay. I p- put hashtag bitcoin and to be safe. You would think on must can do it then. Suddenly i got bad for a within seconds got banned for posted i had made on december the fourth more than a month before So i don't know it was that about. I don't recall okay but That's suspicious the last time. I was banned. It was because of something related to bitcoin and immediately afterward. I got hit with another thirty day ban. So it's the it's hard to even be upset. You can just do other things with your time. Yeah well i never used facebook much anyway. Because every time i post up getting bad no matter what it is that i post it's stupid. I don't know why i keep doing it. Except it's such a miniscule team to me that hey if it works. I might as well say something there and they just like being abused. I don't know not buy into. Let's go to the phones. You've got the anarchist's republican calling our republican. You're on free. Talk live yeah. Greeting semantic kanda montana. Hello anyway Yeah this is talk about The decline of talk radio is really distressing to me especially given the deep platforming and the other media outlets are because they seem like they're just all On the same tate's the same left as you know Propaganda gets his perpetrated on them. And it's sad to see the decline of it. But i can. I can attest. It's true because I've got the point where the radio is my main media and the local station here. I mean the only play about six different commercials all oh commercials than i mean. I used to get real angry about the commercials you know because they they drive me crazy and then i realized wait a minute. You know these are the people that are supporting your information for them. You wouldn't have it at all. So i mean sometimes they play three or four times an hour the same commercials because betas a bad thing and we and we gotta realize just how much information the great thing about radio is that at night you know you can pick up stations that are thousands of miles away and people just sort of find you and that's how i found you guys. I just happened to tune into you. Yeah i love. The internet doesn't isn't quite like that. The internet is can be controlled and the internet. You seek you generally have to seek out what you're looking for. It's very rare just going to stumble across a signal on the internet. Like you can on radio. And i don't think that radio is on. Its last legs. I think that you know even though it is having a tough time right now due to an and it's not just the pandemic or the government restrictions associated with it. This has been building for decades for talk. Radio in the nineteen ninety s. They had what they called. Consolidation happened in the business and what had happened. Then was the fcc under. I don't know if it was clinton or where it was but at some point they changed the rules to allow one company to own more than more than x. Radio stations that. I remember what the number was but there was a very low limit on the number of stations that one company could own generally and then they they did that limit and it made it so that these companies could buy up tons of radio stations. So come what they did. And that's what they did less than iheart to route enormous numbers of loan right so they bought a bunch of these mom and pop radio stations up and then caught all this debt and then what happened in the in the next decade so not long after in the next decade in the arts. Well guess what. The internet came along with this unexpected competition to radio. I mean some of us could see it coming but the radio business certainly didn't and so then all of a sudden these radio stations had limited competitors on various different broad internet platforms and now as a result of that the price of radio stations started going down and so they'd poured all this money into these stations and then when they tried to sell them later on they could only sell them at fractions of what they had originally paid for them so they've been upside down. On these radio stations. For decades radio disney went on went under a few years ago and literally sold their stations off for fractions of what they paid for them. Sounds like that base os zuckerberg or you guys. Just buy up all the radio too. It's like the newspapers well. They haven't done that yet and if they did try to have you if a if you can buy it for a song ever existed on this planet economics though are that if you start going around trying to buy all the radio stations then all of a sudden the prices are going to go up so that wouldn't be a smart move to make in that particular care but if you're ryan you're right because that's how they get their she. Does those newspapers. They don't really care if those newspapers make money. Those newspapers are just of their voice. Yeah republican thank you so much for the call. I tend to agree with you in. I don't think talk radio or radio in general is going to die but it's going to have to evolve in some ways. Well it did wore my heart when i learned that bonnie who is in her early twenty s actually has listened to the radio. Okay that is good. That was a surprise to me. When i found out that not only has she listened to broadcast radio but has actually listened to. Am radio are you talking about custody. Coast whatever whatever it was. Yeah coast to coast but the point is like generally you don't consider young people to be radio listeners. And i think that's probably true. Generally i mean. Do you know do a lot of your friends. Do they actually listen to the radio. And i don't know anybody that listens to the radio. We all connect our phones via bluetooth to our stereo and we stream music from spot. Yeah the least. I think the least relevant radio out there is music radio. I mean why would anyone listen to it anymore. There's what can you get from usa radio. That you can't get online from a zillion different locations know. I mean and only thing that they have is some program director who picks the songs for you. And if that's what you wanna do. There people online that do that as well. I mean there's also features on spotify where they create a new playlist for you every single day with some artists. You liked those artists and you may never have heard of. I love that is apple music. But i love that on apple music because i just can't remember songs that i like also just shows you new music that you like a discovery factor there and of course then you all you have to do to find out what the song is actually look to look at your device music radio. It doesn't have. I don't think the staying power talked does even though this article things talk is on the way i think just in the process of changing well mark. Mitchell would talk radio. You hear something different every single day. I mean there's no doubt about it. When i try here. I listened to the same two hundred songs. All the time we'll talk. Radio is always different. Six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty hi. I'm derek j. I don't want a politician to represent me to me. Government is the idea that one of people can coerce everyone to comply an edict or face increasing punishments up to and including death just might perhaps the most noble of intentions. The best government services are a far cry from what could be provided for by voluntary interaction. Besides the people who call themselves the government tweet wars and people in jail for tribes involving their victim if starbucks used some of its money to drop on. I wouldn't shop there. So why would. I support the american empire. The empire not require by consent. Derek jays victimless crime spree. Watch it for free and order the director's cut. Dvd's and victimless crime. Spree dot com. That's victimless crime. Spree dot com on free talk live. We're bringing people to the ideas of liberty. Every day from wrestling superstars. Like glenn jacobs you guys really are having an impact. I believe like said a lot of where i am now is due to listening free. 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And you'll be kept in the loop with free talk live i am in. It's free talk. live talk. radio control six three two eight three six one six zero. It's the number talk about whatever you want. Six zero three two eight three sixty one six eight weeks tonight. It's aria bonnie and ian and we've been here on talk radio talking about the decline of talkradio ian as you mentioned earlier. It points out that you know all of these forces are converging on conventional media and they pushed the two biggest station owners iheartmedia cumulus media to file for bankruptcy court protection in two thousand and seventeen in two thousand and respectively. These were the economic str- circumstances prior to the covid restriction. Yes and cova just has exacerbated the situation. It was seem because advertisers tried up. Everyone's shopping online local newspaper. Here in keene new hampshire which has been around since the seventeen hundreds. It's the oldest crap. It's the old late the late seventeen hundreds but still. It's the oldest newspaper in new hampshire. From what i understand. So they've been around long enough. They've got their building paid for right like tape. They must own the building by now. There's no more so the you know. They don't have the biggest overhead as far as some newspapers. They're not renting fancy facilities in new york city here so they were begging for donations to stay in business because they're they had advertisers anymore and they obviously wanted to continue operating so they asked for donations from the community and they got they got around forty thousand dollars in donations on the first run through that i saw them doing. I don't know if they did a subsequent one but you know good for them. So are they still in business they are. Let's go to the phones. We've got david calling from new mexico. David you're on free talk. Live under the heading of sell four. one one. I got a question on that combining some elements that you set your program tonight. You're talking about the ammon bundy and and some Protests to salvation activities that were going on without and Don't wanna draw on somebody said on your program multiple times the past. Is that the the only thing stopping people from having the government they deserve as composers to as opposed to the government is being forced on them. Is that That thin blue line guys out there that are call yourself a thin blue line. You could be working for us for the people but instead you're protecting the The power hungry money hungry Oppressive governments and if what you should do is turn your lying around Posing them and fighting for us. And that's what you need to do and just remember guys that When the people finally get control of this you had better have turned around by then. Because if you haven't you're gonna get the you're going to get taken down and it ain't gonna be. I think it'd be fun for you thumb. it's tough though. I mean to be in that position for for somebody who might be a police officer who actually doesn't want to go along all this tyranny How do you flip if you feel like every other officer is going to be against you know then you just know. You're going to end up in a prison cell for doing that. So that's not going to move a lot of these guys have families that they take care of and at the end of the day. It's the state that cuts that check. And they're not gonna feel like they've got a check coming in from just average people even though i think some people would step up to support them if they made the flip if they flipped actually supporting freedom turning against the state and like went and arrested politicians or something like that. Donate to that. At least at least you need to begin preparing the mentally thinking. Think about it that at the very least they'll keep it to themselves and when they see the tide is turning until the very last moment and turn on the oppressor remember. There's already sheriff's deputies. They're all around the country that are already stating publicly that. Hey we're not gonna follow you. Know the feds are the federal. Police are being forced to enforce These various dictates and the local police especially in the form of the county sheriff's because the sheriffs are elected and they can't be fired by the governor or whomever the state police can. They're already saying. Hey you know. Don't come around here because you're not welcome here and we're going to oppose you right up to the point where there are many counties. That says we're the sheriff said we're going to deputise every damn is in this entire county and arm them all if you try to come in here in boston around and that's what needs to be Followed through on and your for one one You know keep us posted when that. is Active in in being able to be used. Because what we need is more of those gatherings like you had you had one family and one infant in question. And i don't know how many people had showed up at that but that's what we need is a cellphone one to put out an alert. And then if if there are half a dozen or a dozen government officials oppressing a couple of citizens than a hundred of us show up and outnumber them and then when they thank you david. I did that on purpose. I mean he's basically describing the whole reason cell phone was invented in the first place and he's right on i mean he he was on a roll there but i agree with what he's saying. I mean that we've seen the the numbers work in our favor and you always work in your favor. And that's why. I think that just a couple Cops here and they're turning on the government and just staying cops and deciding to do what's right isn't really that's just like government solution like there are plenty of other jobs. They should just quit in not be cops. I would agree. Quinton become like a private security worker or something. Sure look at the threat. Defense center. i believe is what it's called in detroit for a great example of a privately run defense organization that you can hire to patrol your neighborhood to give you self self-defense. to do twenty four seven security. They've got different levels of service that they offer The people of detroit that they serve and they've been doing it for several years now at least maybe most of the last decade. I'm not sure when they were founded but garrett ian from freakin dot com went out there and actually met the owner of threat defense center. I believe he came to. I don't know if it was like pork. Fester liberty forum one year or something like that but i don't know how libertarian. The guy is but he's competing with the police. That's really also. I hope he's being successful. But i mean as they're still in business as people's rights dot org and so forth one have pointed out you know what we do need is a large number of people a glorified technologically capable neighborhood watch. It isn't about snitching to the police when something happens about helping one another when someone needs it. It's about instead of going to the thugs. We just give each other a helping hand. S a wonderful thing and i'm and bundy has proved that it works. Go ahead and it's definitely a solution for when the police are the ones oppressing you. You obviously can't go to them. Yeah ideally you could go to the sheriff but that's never how it actually works out. I apologize it's threat. Management center not threat defense center in case people were out there looking for it in detroit. Threats management center at management center very cool. Check it out so the financial pressures on humulus. An iheart make them unlikely to invest in the one thing that might save political talk radio local personalities. I agree. I think the best thing they could do to save talk radio would be to actually stop censoring people to actually created a platform that is known for being friendly to free speech. Lending people speak their actual opinions. We do that here we do. But we're one of the only ones do and we're not run. By cumulus and iheartradio. How many saintly hold on i want to give credit where credit's due. We are heard on cumulus in iheartmedia stations. So i mean they're not the majority of the stations that were heard on but we are heard on several of them. Sure so you know that's good we're not owned by them in the sense that you know and because cumulus was in the news recently for telling its talk show hosts that they were not allowed to say stop the steel on the air right and so that was like the first time in my history of working in radio where i've ever heard a corporation coming down and telling its talk show hosts that they cannot cover certain subject. That's pretty scary stuff. So it's been noted that sports talk. Radio has fared relatively well with hometown personalities. Yakking about local teams but hiring. Local host is an expensive proposition. rosenthal set. Am radio is an imminent danger unless someone comes along to invest enough to enable it to become a local medium again. Yeah i mean. I wish i could say i'm optimistic about the future of. Am radio. but i can't i mean i. I love broadcast radio. And i hope today. Am can stay relevant but it's day by day. It's getting harder and harder. Because i mean a lot of the younger listeners that do exist on. Radio are listening exclusively on fm. Which is why. I'm glad to see a lot of. Am stations are now getting fm translators into the these am talk signals are now being heard on fm. I think the most important thing yeah. I don't think i've ever at am station in my life. Have you six zero. Three two eight three six one six zero. The free state project has reached. Its goal of twenty thousand. Liberty lovers who've pledged to move to new hampshire and get active to achieve liberty in our lifetime. Perhaps you're trying to figure out what part of new hampshire should be your destination. If so consider keen you'll find more than one hundred and fifty reasons to move too keen at move dot free keen. Dot com keen is famous for its historic publicity generating activism as well as being the liberty media capital of the world. It's home to freaking dot com new hampshire's destination for liberty activism news and opinion for years. 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Finding and six zero three two eight three sixty one sixty is the common number if you want to call in and talk about whatever is on your mind. It's been a great show. We've been talking about talk radio and how it's generally in a state of decline. But you think you have an idea of how it's going to adapt or evolve. What's going to happen next at the very least i don't know i mean i've got some predictions. Let's call them somewhat educated guesses. I've been in the business for a couple of decades now and but paid attention to what's been going on and and the the talk radio business and just radio in general has had a tough time over the last two decades since the internet became a competitor radio and broadcast television for a long time. Were the only game in town. Besides the newspaper right like if you wanted entertainment. That's where you went And then of course cable came in in the early nineteen eighties and more channels to the television experience but for the longest time radio didn't really have much in the way of competition. Satellite wasn't really a thing until the last twenty years right. Internet radio started in the late nineties. But it really wasn't a thing until later in the arts and so what changed for radio was all this competition came in. They thought the government was going to protect them from competition. That's what the licensing process does the right the government licensing process whether we're talking about being a restaurant or whether it's you know whatever other government licensed business keeps competition out and so radio. Big corporations thought they were just going to be able to rest easy by up a bunch of radio stations and just kick back and enjoy the money rolling in but internet changed the game and it made it so anybody with you. Know five bucks a month could go and sign up at live three sixty five or whatever i heard. They're still in business but some website and allow them to stream. Whatever music they want a two-day whoever's was willing to listen and there are thousands of internet streaming channels out there and this and i'm talking about before pandora and before you know spotify or whatever these apple music these sort of on demand services are out there so there have been competition to radio now for twenty years. They didn't expect to happen. And paying. licensing fees to the federal government isn't protecting them from it anymore so they're sort of stuck in a real difficult situation where the only thing that they can do and this article did reference it to stay relevant is to be local. Because that's the one thing they can do pretty well that like apple music. Do right like apple. Music is gonna feed your music. But they're not going to be able to tell you what's going on in downtown fill in the blank city. They're going to be able to tell you where the concerts are back when we had concerts a or whatever things are are happening. How depressing when we added concert right and maybe someday those things will happen again. Hopefully a but the point being. It's something that radio could do. But because of all the consolidation that happened in the nineteen ninety s where these big companies got bigger and bigger and bought up all these stations and subsequently went bankrupt. Well they can't do it because they don't have anyone left. I mean they were already cutting jobs in markets all across the united states year after year just because they have all this debt. These companies have these debt loads and they've got to cut their costs in order to deal with that so they don't have anyone left. It's gotten so bad. Like i call radio stations for for free talk. Live right like during the day And you've done some of this work with our but calling radio stations. You talked to program. Directors pitched the show to pitch freetalklive to them to get them to listen to it and consider it. Well it's harder now than it's ever been to get somebody on the phone. And i'm just talking about as secretary like calling up a radio station. One of these big corporate stations. Probably eight out of ten times. There's no one answering no one answering at all at all no no a year ago or so maybe two years ago. I don't remember exactly when it was possible to just about always reach a secretary. You couldn't get the programming director nine times out of ten. Well wait more or less frequently than that. That was a challenge back then. Now it's almost impossible so are they resorting to email now. I mean it's even difficult to reach these people via email. A lot of them are working from home and so emails going to reach him. But you don't get you know it's not the same as getting somebody to pick up a phone right. Is there anything that can save this system. Then so. I don't think that it's hard to say that a company like a iheartmedia or has any kind of a bright future. I mean they've already been bankrupt already. And so i don't know what the next i don't understand bankruptcy law and what all the different sections or or whatever but it's not good right when you go bankrupt so that's probably a bad sign. I think what you're gonna see is they're going to likely sell off a lot of their stations and that will probably result in more mom and pop owners of radio stations again and i think that'll be a good thing for local radio. I think that we may see radio. Have a comeback. Possibly you know if if if you can pick up a radio station at one. Fiftieth of what it would have cost you twenty years ago. Maybe it's worth doing. Sure maybe at a low enough price at the bottom of the barrel enough price which is what we may see happen over the next couple of years that we'll see some fresh ideas Come into radio. i'm just. This is optimism honestly for the for the business. I think that's the only way it's ever going to become local relevant against actually have a local owners. Come in and run this thing. And i think that. Will i think you kind of. We'll have to see that when these stations these big station groups have to liquidate their stations. Because that will be inevitable if they continue going bankrupt right. And i can't imagine attend think you're correct mom and pop places mama pops re buying. These stations is really the only way to proceed for it. I would rather see younger people you know. Yeah i don't think their ideas into it. And i don't think you're gonna see the thing they were talking about earlier where you could just hire somebody to do a show. I don't think that's gonna happen anymore. I think that if you wanna be on the radio you'll have to just do like we did on free. Talk live where we worked for free when we started the show. This was twenty years almost twenty years ago. Now where we said. Hey look just put us on. The air will do the show for free. We just want to be on the air right. And that's what i would expect as. Well yeah if you. There's no other way you're going to be able to do it. You will not have enough money coming into one of these operations to be able to hire staff so you'll have to truly find the people that love the art of broadcasting bring them on board and then tell them hey if you can sell some ads sell. Some ads split with split it with the station. And then everybody's happy. That's the only way it's going to work. That sounds plausible. I would love to see it. I hope so well. That's the end of that article. And there's not much left time to get into anything else of note. I've got an article here from abc. News just highlighting. How stupid people are in michigan. Men killed by a baby shower kenan because he was the explosion. I don't know what's wrong. With people between gender reveals burning thousands of acres of forest in california. What is a baby shower. Cannon is this is the thing it's like my friend just had one at her baby reveal. It's like a little thing with either bluer pink dustin it and they'll like shoot off at their gender revealed thing if it's blue dust. It's boy. I didn't think they could kill people. Don't stand in front of cannons too bad plan. What did he do. He was fatally injured when a cannon exploded a backyard during a baby shower because he was within fifteen feet of the device when the blast occurred. It doesn't say whether he was actually attending or whether he was next door but if he was within fifty feet. I tend to think that is a huge explosion. You've you've seen this in action. I'm just saying fifteen feet is huge. But i have seen it well. He was a hit by the explosion. He was killed by shrapnel. My god what did they load into this thing. Let's just doesn't sound like a little bit of glitter that's being shot into the air. If there's actual shrapnel did the cannon itself explode yes oh so something was wrong with the device itself and used frequently and hasn't been inspected or anything so just wore away overtime. God four or five people were in the backyard when the small cannon was fired but this guy was standing about ten to fifteen feet away and was the only person truck struck by shrapnel three parked cars and the garage where the baby shower was being held also struck oh so no he. He's just happened to be a backyard. Presumably not fist from the other property. The people who were there for the gender reveal also were not near the canon the canon fired by the homeowner as a family celebrating a babies pending arrival was similar to a signal cannon more commonly used. That's a novelty item. And that sounds like what you would have been referring to like. A hand held one. Because i just looked it up to try to show ian and they all looked hand held like a roman candle. Say this doesn't sound like it could be hand held. If it's exploding with shrapnel hills man i mean that seems unlikely. I know i'm laughing in. That's horrible but the the stupidity on display here. This guy bought the kennan. An auction had fired several times before. It's suspected that the shrapnel came from kenan breaking apart during the explosion is designed to create a big flash allow noise and create smoke the cannon did not contain any project house but is suspected that the gunpowder loaded into the device caused the candidate who fracture resulting in shrapnel being spread in the area so he bought a real cannon. Like not the type that i was talking about it all and just tried to put like some powder in it and killed someone. That's pretty much what it sounds like. 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New wallet hasn't even released yet and other things are happening that i can't even say on the radio. If you want to invest in potentially do well go to divvy project dot org. I can tell you that f. t. l. is deepening partnership with the guys from divvy project. Dot org past performance is not an indication of future prophet. Divvy project dot org. The i v. i. project dot org are you cryptocurrency currency advocate. The crypto tip is the ideal outreach tool to help. New people discover cryptocurrency. It's a printable business-card-sized tip that you can give to service providers preferably in addition to a good cash tip when the server scans the qr code. It'll bring up an explanation of crypto currency how to install a wallet and allow them to claim the tip. If they don't claim the crypto. You get your tip refunded to you. After a time period you specify plus if they do claim the tip you get an email alert create as many tips as you want at crypto tip dot org. That's crypto tip dot org tired of cancel culture. Sick of mega corporations holding an axe over your head joined the l. r. n. on fm matrix chat server itself hosted. So no one else can tell us what to do or say don't like the existing channels you can make your own. You can even connect into some of our channels from other matrix servers. It's federated for the full l. r. end on fm matrix experience though you should join our server via the step by step instructions at chat dot fm chat dot l. n. dot fm where always meets the road. Actually i'm not even sure what that means to you. Speed radio network live hot dunks. Newsfeed dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter and instagram's the pompidou service newscast avoid the tenth. Twenty twenty one. I'm mike the biden administration has said it wants to prevent worse. Case scenarios due to climate change and states like texas have several risks that to be addressed a twenty twenty study by texas a and m university showed climate change threats for texas in the next fifteen years include warmer weather more wildfires. Urban flooding and increased impact from hurricanes. That scenario could include people fleeing coastal cities as a c. Level continues to rise univision chief meteorologist eric. Pino pointed to research the shows. The global climate crisis could displace two billion people in the next eight years. People are losing their homes. We see it all the time coming from different countries but also coming from different parts of the us before leaving for all sorts of reasons. I'm ross brown to address. Climate by no ready has taken steps to reverse trump administration actions from cancelling the keystone xl pipeline to rejoining the paris climate agreement c. n. n. reports six republicans joined all of their democratic colleagues tuesday to vote that the impeachment trial against former president. Donald trump is constitutional louisiana. Senator bill cassidy was the sole republican to switch his vote after an initial vote on constitutionality last week the fifty six to forty four five vote marked the closing chapter of tuesday's proceedings for the senate adjourned until noon today. She didn't reports all but six. Republican senators voted. The trial was unconstitutional. Because trump is no longer president. It's the second time. Such a vote was taken out. Senator rand paul e. kentucky republican forced to vote of the same question last month. A north dakota legislative committee has approved a measure that lgbtq advocates say unfairly targets. transgender athletes. Are mike morin reports bill. Supporters say. They don't want unfair competition in team sports this week. The house human services committee advanced a proposal that effectively bars public high school athletes who identify as transgender from participating in team sports. That don't align with the sex on their birth certificate. Bill sponsors say can especially protect female athletes. So they wouldn't have to face competition from athletes born males but brandy hardy of the north dakota human rights coalition says that argument is counterproductive. I think that it's agreed to stand behind. One movement to push forward hate towards another group of people. Similar legislation has surfaced and other states in recent years. The north dakota bell has amendments including removing language for college. Sports over concerns the law would result in regional schools losing out on hosting events under current rules. In north dakota transgender. Students are allowed to sign up for activities under their. Identifying gender was certain restrictions. This is p. Ns the california public utilities commission meets tomorrow to vote on contracts for more power generation to avoid a repeat of last summer's blackouts clean. Energy groups are saying it's unclear. How much energy we need. Because they feel the state's explanations for the outages are insufficient the california independent system operator known as caso blamed the blackouts primarily unaccessible heat breakdowns at power plants and software issues but loretta lynch former head of the california public. Utilities commission. Says there's more to the story. It may well be the defects. In california's electricity. Market design and in his operations have allowed for trading strategies that created artificial supply shortages and that those cost last summer's blackouts some fear a repeat of the energy crisis of two thousand when oil companies managed to manipulate the state's electricity market costing billions for public news service. I'm suzanne potter in montana advocates. They're fighting. Cancer are urging state lawmakers not to roll back anti-smoking policies this session. More matt from eric taken off kristen page with the american cancer society cancer action network in montana says one bill house bill. Two five would allow for the creation of bars where cigar. Smoking is allowed. Everyone deserves the right to breathe clean. Indoor air smoke free air and no one should have to risk their health to earn a living. The bill received a public hearing. On tuesday one proponent from the organization americans for prosperity. Montana said the bill would benefit entrepreneurs in montana should be able to make their own choices about smoking. The american cancer society action network also wants montana to maintain five million dollars annually in funding for the state's tobacco prevention and cessation program. Finally diane gives us this. Update following virginia's landmark passage of the clean energy act last year study. Show cars and trucks are the leading cause of air. Pollution in virginia and house spilled nineteen sixty five would establish stricter clean car emission standards according to harry godfrey with advanced energy economy. He says the bill also would require carmakers to send more electric vehicles or ev's to virginia's auto dealers to encourage folks to buy electric low emission vehicles standards and zero emission vehicle standards are important aspect of making certain folks actually have access to these vehicles when they go out to buy a new or used vehicles so this is about making certain those vehicles are actually coming to virginia. Other bills passed. The house of the senate would provide an easy rebate program a grant fund to encourage virginia schools to replace diesel buses with electric ones and one to expand the state's ev charging infrastructure this by clifford from public news service member. A listener supported heard on radio stations. Big and small and online at public news service donowaki. Here's a look at weather from the haukeland news. Newsfeed weather center today. Cloudy and cold with a forty percent chance of snow accumulation between one and three inches high near nineteen tonight. Snowfall continues cloudy and windy with a low and fourteen. There is a thirty percent chance of continued snow thursday. Cloudy windy and cold heine twenty. That's the latest weather. Checkoff more news and weather on our website at heartland newsfeed dot com fair that gina game with the us at the end pain had eighteen. Randall had twelve and a game. Berg's had eleven rose second leading scorer on a team payton. Eighteen rose fourteen. I thought everybody played well. There was a great game. Miami somehow wins it. They were down eight in the fourth quarter with like five minutes to go and they still won the game. I mean the knicks just blew it. You're up eight late in the fourth. You've got to win the game yet. She gets to take the lead on the randall. Baseline step back. That mrs then you file and go to the make the free throws he makes one of two. You get a chance to tie or win and barad misses the lab. You gotta be kidding me. I mean you've gotta be kidding me. I can't even. I can't even watch. I gotta turn the channel. I can't even watch. I gotta move onto the game. Celtics jazzed getting set to go and salt lake. Shakers jazz laying five and a hook. I actually think. I got. I think on today's it opened it for today's show on coast to coast that could swarm. Avi i got. The celtics was six in jazz to win. So we'll see if that games as good as advertised on paper. It looks like you know game of the night. Plus you had the magic blazers getting set to go. Sixers kings the golden one in sac town. Pelicans blew out the rockets tonight. I hit that one. Thirty two one on one the nets lose pistons the pistons plus nine and then i hit the knicks and heat both ways right now. The warriors are up. Twelve on the spurs was seven left in the third. I got the warriors going in that game tonight. Good sharon marcus. Hey from philly on events new orleans listening to ferrall on the bench here on sports overnight. America i'm going to tell you how you can get real healthcare for as little as six dollars a day. Yes now you can get affordable health care for you and your family immediately and save as much as fifty percent of your current monthly healthcare payments are. Plans are perfect for people that are self employed. Can't afford health benefits where they were or just wanna pay less for their current healthcare and coverage guaranteed regardless of your medical condition. We even offer some of the new christian faith based health benefits. Save up to fifty percent on your family's healthcare makeup free quick call now no contracts and we give you a ten day money back trial period call provision enrollment right now for your risk-free guaranteed health insurance quote starting at six dollars a day. Eight hundred four seven two five one four five eight hundred four seven two five one four five. 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I'd struggled with opiate and meth addiction for twelve years. I didn't said things that the sober i never would have done. When realized i was not invincible. I was not exempt. And that's when a friend told me about rehab placement. They gave me the tools. I needed to get sober and all it took was one phone. Call elite rehab can help you start to break your addiction problem and get sober in as little as seven days and we'll work with your insurance provider to help cover the costs. Plus we have travel assistance programs to get you here by plane or train. Make this free call right now to learn more eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one to eight hundred four zero three five nine one two. That's eight hundred. Four zero three fifty nine twelve now back to the bench with scott ferrall on sports overnight america. You're listening to a different kind of sports talk. We're not just talking about sports but talk about sports. You can can winning. And this is the sports radio network ferrallonthebench with you ready. We have was saying marcus. Johnson the philly enquirer this hour coming up here in something like thirteen minutes or something like that. Anyway we're going to get into everything for odell style. There's a lot to talk about with that city. I mean you got the carson wentz drama. You got a new head coach. Joe saturate hani the legendary guitarist. Now running the eagles. I'm hearing now in my ear. Serianni for mafia. Actually someone else entirely. I just thought saturday on anything which stick anyway Talk about the flyers. They've been pretty tough. There game got cancelled tonight but there Former gm ron hextall. Got the gm job in pittsburgh. Today of the penguins. I think it a undercover operation. Mafia to ruin the penguins franchise. I think that he is a frankly fire for life. And i know he worked with the kings and everything but and you know he ran the flyers for awhile and then i just think that like there's no any hates martin penguins in his career if you ask me and then like the flyers and penguins hate each other. It's just constant hate. It's been going on since i was in my mother's womb and then i just felt like one of the players in my lifetime that i hated more than anyone was ron. Hextall hated hated him. Like you have no idea. He like it'd be like you with the islanders right same kind of thing and then but i don't like them either come to think of it you know. There's two teams that have irritated me. Well actually three irradiated me the most one. I hated the flyers. Two handed the islanders because they always beat us in the playoffs and like double overtime hollick. Whatever overtime goal whatever it was and then the canadians. They always beat us in the playoffs so every time they faced the canadians staff camel larry last season. They did it again. Cam larry few years ago you remember when they beat them in the playoffs. And you had to pull me off the ledge on the gw bridge three hundred feet over the frozen hudson river. I was going to jump in and you've reached out of the car and saved my life. I can't stand any of teams. And then today. When i saw i got that guy's jan like i knew they were talking to him but i wanted to puke because i feel like he's a fascist and he's going to go in there and his mission is to he's like mission impossible mavi. I think he's actually destroy the organization one footage of him when they talked about making a trade that would have netted them three great player. He wouldn't do the deal because he's good. See that and then we can talk about the sixers. Would joel embiid tobias harris. And mr simmons and they got a big game tonight and sat town. Unless i'm mistaken. I just said they were playing them there. I went for the upset tonight with the kings. We'll see if they can handle. Joe joe but we'll talk to him in a few minutes either way celtics and jazz getting set to go. I have to tell you mafia that. I'm upset again tonight. I don't know if you knew this. But last night. I was upset because i know that i sat on the show. We did it on. Costa goes in on ferrallonthebench night. I talked about how troubling it was for me to see. Pedro gomez die. And you know it's weird. I didn't know him. But i felt like i did. Because he covered. Barry bonds when i covered barry bonds and he covered him in san francisco right and he covered at one point or another his career. The as the axe brothers and so he was always out there in the bay area. I was in the bay area. I knew he was. I didn't know him personally. We weren't like friends or anything literally. Ever but i said this last night i'm not gonna drag into it anymore. Other than to say you know fifty eight years old with four kids away. One of his kids is a minor league baseball player. In the red sox organization. I felt absolutely horrible for his family and friends and colleagues and people even at espn. They worked with them for so long and he was just such an unbelievable guy. I always liked his work. I thought he was unique in that he could speak different languages and he spoke to players languages. He got along with all the latin players. He was cuban His father brought him over to miami when he was literally in his mother's womb and then when when they got there like twenty days later she had the baby so he was born in miami. But his family's cuban and he went back there several times and reported on what it was like in havana and i just thought he was a fascinating guy. Reporting on baseball was a fantastic. He'd been to like twenty five world series things like this and he died at fifty eight hundred drop dead and i just you know. I'm fifty five years old. I you know the deal. I ball lot. I work out every day. Obsessed with you now. Frankly you know working out. I like to box and kick box and lift weights and swim and play basketball. That's what i do once in a while. I go golfing with mafia and watch him drink a case of paths blue ribbon in two hours he can drink the case and again i saw carbohydrate a twelve pack of bud light in in an hour in los angeles and i lived through them with their alcohol problems because i used to drink so much and i don't anymore instead of drinking i work out. Apparently that's the same thing. I drank as much as i work out. But i i take really good care of myself. You know and i guess when you start getting to be my age start thinking about stuff like that you got kids wife and blah blah blah life insurance all that stuff you know. See your kids go if you will. Some people want to see their kids go to college get married and then the normal stuff and i just cannot believe that i saw some guy fifty eight years old drop dead and i you know my mother died. When i was young. My father died a couple of years ago. And then i see this guy. Terrific taylor today and am i wrong mafia. He was a friend of ours. He's been on my show a bunch of times. he used to come on ferrallonthebench a lot. And what talking about the kansas city chiefs right when he was with the kansas city star. They're choosing admin all the time and then he went to. Yahoo was through the national thing. We had a monster. And it's like you said terribly it's one thing you see. Pedro gomez and he was young too young for him as well but then tarez pallor only thirty seven years old. And obviously we're not like in these guys lives no. We don't know them that closely. It'd be like oh well this was going on what wasn't going on but no for what both seem to be out of nowhere. They just pass away. Well before they should have is just crazy i like he does he thirty seven. I mean like. I'm way older than him right. And that just shouldn't happen as far as you know what i mean like the i know. You're thirty five. I i don't understand how and it's weird right like the good the good die young. Don young dantonio billy joel right so i just feel like it shouldn't happen. I just don't understand that like i. I've never been able to grasp losing my mom that a young age losing a lot of friends a lot of people i've seen a lot of people died and everything in my lifetime into a lot of funerals and i just hate it and i just cannot believe i watched this week. Two guys. fifty eight is young to me and thirty. Seven is just ridiculous. That guy should not be dead just crazy. Just just feel horrible for their family and friends and everybody my condolences. I knew i was on my show fifty times so i just feel terrible. Attention timeshare owners. This is an urgent consumer or from timeshare exit hotline a national company specializing in helping consumers legally get out of their expensive timeshare contracts. We're offering you away to legally get rid of your timeshare. So if you're fed up with the maintenance fees that keep on coming and what to learn if you can terminate your timeshare legally and permanently call today even if you've tried before and were unsuccessful in getting rid of your timeshare call today and see if we can help. We offer a complete one hundred percent. Unconditional client satisfaction guarantee. Make this completely free call and learn how we can help you. Legally put an end to your timeshare nightmare once and for all you have nothing to lose so call right now to qualify and receive a free consultation. Eight hundred eight eight seven one. Six seven eight hundred eight seven one six seven. That's eight hundred. Eight hundred seventy one. Sixty seven paid for by airtime media. Do you own anonymity either. Fixed rate indexed variable. 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It might not seem like. I'm listening to you but i am. I hear you and what you say really doesn't matter to me. I mean let's be honest. No kid likes rules. But i get why we have them. I hear you. And i know it's because you care all the toxic fat over the years including what you've told me about not using alcohol and other drugs they stick with me and believe it or not they really do make a difference especially at times matter drink nothing some good so thank you for talking and preparing me for what's ahead thanks. Mom never giving up and always being my biggest fan. Thank you for letting me know what you expect. So i can try to meet your expectations for more information about talking with your kids about underage use of alcohol and other drugs visit underage drinking dot samsa dot gov now more from ferrall on the bench here on sports overnight america. Our boy marcus hayes in philadelphia inquirer back on the bench waxing up on mahogany. Hey bro good guy how you doing man. I'm and so. I have to start with this. Did you know through your career. This taylor guy. 'cause we were i. We were just talking about him. I i'm he'd been on my show a ton of times over the years working with the kansas city star and then at yahoo like he was always like you know coming on. You know during football season every year. He just seemed like the greatest guy ever like. I never actually hung out with him. Did you ever gnome in all your travels covering the eagles and stuff like that. He's one of those guys that like everybody knew. And that's why he got the yahoo job because it was kinda like his game it was kinda like his life like you know like pedro gomez right from the right from espn. He's that guy everybody knew of. Everybody liked him. Everybody respected him. And that's why they rose. You know they were. He was so respected and more. It was more respect than like. I mean i. It sounds as though he was trying to get us. But it wasn't a kiss ass you know he was a good reporter and you know. I have connections in kansas city and they can't city Coaching staff loved dealing with though. So it's a big loss for our community. Yeah there's no doubt like i you know. I told the story earlier before you came on that. I didn't know pedro. But i followed him forever. And he worked in the bay area. When i lived there and worked there and covered bonds and i covered bonds and i knew bonds from my pittsburgh days and we didn't like each other. I told him what i thought of him a couple of times and he was best baseball player i ever saw but i told him right to his face what i thought of him because he treated people like us like crap and just like his dad did and then i was always around this guy but never really knew him and then when he when he dropped dead no offense i felt like it was just so sudden and horrible at fifty eight with a big family bunch of kids a kid in minor league baseball with the red sox i just felt so horrible for his family and colleagues i just thought it was devastating and then like a day later two days later this kid thirty seven drops dead out of nowhere. I'm just like i'm fifty five marcus. I'm freaking out. I'm like what is going on here. This is insanity. I couldn't even believe either one of the stories could you. Well no honestly and you know. Pedro the phillies for eight years and they were a pretty big deal and bonds was a pretty big deal. I mean i remember. One time i went into the the key the giants clubhouse and you know bonds had the big recliner in the end of the clubhouse and whatnot and billy wagner had just been traded to phillies urban Phillies and. I wanted to ask barry about you. Know facing A big left hand a left-hander with one hundred mile. An hour fastball and berry was being such an idiot with his trainer there. Pedro actually reprimanded and it was myself and mld dot com guy berry his trainer and pedro was there and he just like buried. That's not appropriate. I mean come on just walked away very didn't do a nicer you know. But he had It's funny even pedro. That is Has breaking point with barry bonds. I mean because berries jerked and it's so funny to me. Because i knew him really well after covered him. So many years in pittsburgh and san francisco that like me. Okay like i may not be. This may not be that. I may be you know whatever you can call me wherever you want all. Although everyone knows. I'm cool and i'm i'm not a deed of people and i treat everyone like i wanted to be treated in life and i get along with people and i support people and i've never been really a jerk to people that i can recall. I may be everything else. But i never. I'm not putting up with it like so. You wanna treat me that way. I don't care who you are all right in front of your face. I'll throw something at you and i did. I got into it with him. They threw me out of the clubhouse multiple times. Because i had run ins with bonds but that guy that pedro gomez guy was like the night sky ever like like you sent from heaven and there was nothing worse to me than being around bonds. And you know it's funny. After his baseball life this whole act is trying to be nice and riding bikes and being nice to people is so funny because he and his dad were both just complete a holes to everyone their whole life. That's all there is to it. They hate to media. You cannot change your colors after you're done playing but that guy. That guy pedro gamez. Was there anyone nicer ever like. When a guy went back cuban was doing stories about havana. I was like crying. I mean you know what i mean. He had that ability. He was very authentic very real. And that's one of the reasons people respect to him so much and you know as well as i do. There's no beat more grueling than the baseball the because you're just gone all the time and every single day and sixteen hours you know and to be able to have that sort of demeanor every single day that pedro had it's just You know like you said. It's it's something angelic it's something heavenly. How old are you now. Marcus fifty two right. So i got three years on you. I'm double nickels. So that stuff scares me and i was telling audience. I i really. I work out a lot of a lot of all. You know me better on the show a million times. I worry about that stuff. I see guys like that. His age or pedro's age dropping dead. I just because they just died out of nowhere. It wasn't like they were sick or something or had any kind of maladies. I just feel like no one's even saying what happened. They just died quickly. And i've been around that with my mom and my dad. Diana been around a lot of friends that have died and it just kind of creeps me out. I just feel awful today with all the stuff. That's been going on sunday and today it's me out i have to ask you. Let's get onto something else. Now no offense. I didn't wanna bummed me out. But i knew you know. I knew i knew you weren't around these guys because you've had a long storied career and people know you and you had to have met him so. I figured i'd at least ask your opinion. So so i haven't conspiracy theory ellen. Throw your way i believe. And you'll say i'm drunk or something. I believe that ron hextall was hired by the penguins to go in and destroy my hockey team. Like is there anyone on earth that hates the penguins more than the flyers. Or ron hextall. I've never hated anyone. More than i've aided ron hextall and billy smith okay so dead. I hate him dead. And i literally hate him dead and like he got the job running my five time stanley cup champion venues today and i think he's there to break up the team ruin a team traded away all their draft picks all their good players poison. I think he'll poison guinea malkin poison. Like like like your boy. Putin putin poisoned that they got him in prison. They're going to kill him. That's what i believe. Ron hextall has been hard to do. A secret mission from god from philadelphia to destroy ocoee franchise. It's gotta be happening right now. it's probably already started. He's probably already started spiking their food. Well this there's no love love. Lost between ron hextall and flyers. 'cause the flyers. The flyers asked him to rebuild their team from the ground up. He did it right. However he wouldn't fire dave hacksaw. The college turned pro coach. And he wouldn't bring taylor. Bob carter heart in time so they fired him. Ron hextall will never forgive them for that. If you want someone to rebuild the penguin and build them to beat a specific team like the fires ron hextall will sell his kidney. Do get that done. Their hextall despite is the penguins. The the the philadelphia fires couldn't pay. Ron hextall enough to help the philadelphia flyers at this point so ron hextall is penguin nation. He's pittsburgh through right now. The he's earned coat like benedict carl. He's he's the best guy could have the best guys you have. The is not easy. he's on your side. Trust me yeah. I i remember. They got fired and fill it up. They asked the day he got fired. Philadelphia flyers are pretty classy. They rented him a hotel room or hotel conference room across the street from the flyers skate zone so he could hold a press conference with real for us. They couldn't have this press conference at the flyers skates on. They've they've they rented him a conference room and gave him a pr guy. Have a sort of farewell press conference and after the press conference. He was just. He felt so betrayed and he will work. 'cause his dying breath to for retribution against the team that he wants love. Wow that is crazy. Because i think he's satan. And i just couldn't believe like i knew that i knew that he was gonna interviewing and he had a second interview when they start talking about second interviews in the nhl with all wight old man old. You know recycled bottle. Water these guys. Get jobs like brian burke. He got the president of hockey ops job. He's sixty six guys. Had fifteen jobs. I mean you couldn't get rid of him. If he'd died he'd literally come back from the dead and run five more teams. But when i saw ron hextall had a second interview i was like. Oh no oh no. They're gonna hire satan weekend at brian Listen i i telling you there's something going on. It's a conspiracy now buddy to law school with him at harvard and so i called him up today and i said can you get him on my show. Because he's a crusty old fart. And i was like can he get him on the show today and he said let me call him and obviously the guy heard ferraro ran through the phone in the pool and shot his dog and he didn't do the interview but i'm not sure i like him either. I don't know what to say when we come back. We'll talk to margaret as about the eagles and the sixers. I might even ask him about the vilis. I'm in that kind of mood. Eight four four eight four hundred sixty eight seventy nine. I don't even any idea damage done. I have left. I got off. Emanate vance checkout win. Dog dr worldwide. Thirty five years radio presents. Find out why. He's every saturday and eleven and pacific. Time when pedro fix over the sports by air with bring thought live worldwide. 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Less guaranteed call the international travel department right now at low cost airlines eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one. That's eight hundred. Seventy five four forty five thirty one now. Back to the bench with scott ferrall on sports overnight america. Our goal is subtle. We want us to hold court at the company water cooler every friday and monday. That's the winning. All you gotta do is listen. This is this fourth grade radio network ferrall with mark as from the enquirer in philadelphia. I have to ask you steve. Nash said that in not so many words. That kyrie irving was better than alan iverson. I went. I was just not having it. There was i mean honest to christ knowing like i'm done listening. I don't care if you're a hall of famer. I don't care if you're the head coach. I don't care if you're a soccer player. Because he is a soccer player is always playing soccer. I don't care if you run. A you know the boston marathon. Don't tell me that anyone was better than allen. Iverson okay. i don't wanna eric. I will go to my grave thinking he was the most exciting toothpick skinny ankle breaking bucket making bad ass buck fifty soaking wet and would absolutely take michael jordan and wearing out his jockstrap with his moves and took. The sixers did a finals on his back which he could barely carry a lunch bucket to school when he was a little kid is so skinny. And little and that guy. I think kyrie irvings great. I think he's awesome. I think he's incredible when he plays today's a month. But no one is better than allen. Iverson i just wanted to say that because you're in philly. I'm not having it. He was my favorite player. That guy was a freak from high school. Georgetown all the way to the sixers. Are you kidding me. I don't even care where he played still. He'd better today. He played it all drunk. Yeah almaz exciting. to watch. car is twice the basketball player. Alan iverson is so you better career so much better than alan iverson. And i covered every every year about in philadelphia and it was fun to why you know right now. I cannot believe you sided with these communists. These fascists. what you go to. Dinner with steve nash. You hanging out him now. Let's liberal person in america and canada. Listen you you. here's what happened. Here's a happen you. You're rooting for some guy. I think he's a great player to the guy that shows up for work. One one day a month place to a month takes more vacations than howard stern. I mean your boy honestly in high by flat. Don't forget about things. The world's howard taught me how to take vacations. I respect his vacation schedule by the way but that guy. I'm sorry now you so you must not elect iverson. When he played there. was that it. No you like both. You could think both are great. I mean both are going to be in the hall of fame. Car irving is just a wonderful wonderful player Allen might be a better athlete than kyri because he's got the kyri has more skilled better shooting better finishing better passing basketball player. And let's be honest allen. You're a good basketball player. You know that allen had serious deficiencies in his game to the degree that he couldn't play point guard late in his career. You know all had to do was bring the ball up. Indiscriminate properly couldn't do it so what will what will will will kyri irving do late in his career. Besides not play. He won't even show up. He won't even that guy in last five he won't even last five more years in the nba. He's gonna be he's gonna turn around a church or something you might. You might be right. But he's got a ring. Yeah well philly would've ever given iverson any players. He would have won more rings. Well with the guy won't give the ball back up the nobody ever wanted to play with that guy. Why because he was he does he put on a show every night. No you never gave the ball back. That's why i trust me. I love watching. Alan iverson but alan iverson play winning basketball play perfect basketball. You know but i. I respect steve nashes opinion. Because you know another guy with a jacket right fair enough but do you think that it helped at all that Kyrie irving god his ring Playing with lebron james. Who did iverson i allen needed help. There's no doubt but you have to be able to accept the help people have the to play with you. Nobody wanted to play on. Alan iverson seen. You couldn't pay him enough. Let you literally couldn't pay it up a good player enough to play with alan iverson paul. How homeless had that happened to him. You know sacrilege. I can't believe this stuff coming out of your mouth. It's it's sacrilege. it should be. There should be a police at your door. You should be taken in for questioning immediately. They should show up with a warrant at your house right now. Can't even believe this to me frozen. Blasphemy especially in philly right last philadelphia. Can you believe this guy mafia. Can you even believe it i. I don't know what to do now. I feel like. I just got a flat tire on a highway. And i'm in texas and arizona. The nearest town is four hundred miles away. Let me ask you so now. Now that you are a communist now that you have Nerve you've rattled me is what you've done you've ruined my night now. I don't like not. I'll tell you what i think irving's incredible to. I won't deny that. I think he's incredible. But i don't know i'd rather see you know. Drunken alan iverson wasted showing up and playing with a hangover than the guy that never shows up for work and takes off weeks at a time because he needs to talk to jesus or whatever he's doing. I'm telling you that bothers me. I don't know anyone that does that to their teammates. I need a break up. Break up what lake. you're worried about. Covid everyone's worried about kobe. Worried about the world changing the world. Everybody's changing in the world and worried about showing you make thirty five million show up and play ball. That's all. I know that iverson that never played. You didn't practice. Who cares about practice. Hey so is joe. Joe simmons tobias. I think to buy a suspend the difference for me in that when when they got him i never thought he did anything other than get his average eighteen to twenty and night or whatever but now i think i've noticed that he finally in whatever it is year three or something. I could be wrong. I think he's taken his game to another level and he's added that piece that they wanted all along that can produce at a high level with those other guys instead of just watching them produce while you're right things that he does better now is when joel embiid goes out of the game. He's able to create his own shot off the dribble and get open and produce he. He's a good secondary scorer both from the perimeter and from the post depending on the matchups other thing that i think we'll see manifest itself as we go along the season is he's much better one on one defensively and with his defensive positioning. And that's something you gotta learn. You know. I i credit brett brown a lot with the fact that joel embiid and simmons and now tobias harris understand advanced defensive concept team defensive concepts and are applying them. It's not like doc rivers taught these guys how to play defense and six weeks or whatever this is the this is the vestige of brett brown and his assistant so yes tobias took a big step forward this season. We'll see how far it can go when team started couldn't treating him like a chris middleton and really try to start locking him down you know. Yeah so do you think And i i still want to ask you about but do you think doc has made a difference at all since he's been there. Yeah joel and ben respect dock more than they respected brett brown and with this generation of athletes. That's incredibly important. Especially since joel. And ben have huge deficiencies remaining in their games and that's not a criticism. They're both relatively new to what they're being asked to. Joel two b. basketball player in general. He didn't start playing until nine years ago. And then to be a point guard having been a kind of a point forward most of his career but yes the respect for doc rivers makes a huge difference with those players. What did you think when they The eagles higher joe saturday on the legendary guitarist to be their head football coach gregg. You said that. Every time. I see his name. I think about joe satra. I've actually written nick satriano a couple of times and deleted it Knicks giuliani is. You know. I feel sorry for him. He's he's inheriting a horrible situation in that his best players are old is young players aren't talented. His ownership the his owner and his general manager are irrational at this point and they have huge salary. Cap problems yeah. He's just he's a horrible situation. And i don't think he's built for you. Know i grew up in new york state. I know jamestown new york. It ain't philadelphia indianapolis ain't philadelphia. You know so. I don't know that he's built for this town and this job. Yeah i believe me. I went on tv. And i said to adam. Kaplan you know adam. I said that guy is in over his head that and that initial press conference. I don't care what anybody says. That was all you need to know that. He's in for nightmare on his. He is gonna they're gonna. Edm alive there in philly. So what are they gonna do with wins. Because i think it's the call. It's the bears are over here like saying that the the eagles are ridiculous. What they want as he getting traded this week. I don't think he's gonna get traded this week. I think the eagles hoped that one of the teams in play including the colts and the bears. Those are the teams we know about. But i think there are a couple of other teams. That are interested. I think they thought okay before everybody else comes on the market. Let's see what we can get. The big deal is there's a ten million dollar roster bonus carson is due early march that i think the talks heat up and that's what i think. The eagles decide. Are we just going to cut bait. Or are we gonna try to call carson's book because everybody's talking about carson wants to leave. What's he gonna do. you know. take the year off. take two years off. The eagles are if he does. You've got the past you know he's just i mean they they can play what is called mexican standoff. There is no there is there is no reason for them to blake. You know understand. I don't understand the leverage carson. Thinks he has if they if he thinks they're gonna pay thirty four million dollars. Which is their cabinet for a fourth round draft. Pick and a backup linebacker. He's crazy you know and bend over backwards to do everything or him even before he got drafted. They hired a coaching staff to develop whatever quarterback they drafted into them. Sixteen with him in mind though he can't they're not great at it but they've done everything they can to accommodate and weaponized him if he doesn't appreciate it he doesn't like it if i'm them i'm just like okay. We'll see you in. We'll see you in july or we won't you know it's your paycheck. Come get it. Wow that's crazy. I got a a minute respectively. Phillies going to be any good. No no. they're not going to be any good. The rest of the east and the national league going to be great. I mean they are a normal philly. This vilis rostrum normally would be a ninety one team in this division. There eighty win team. Wow eighty wins and then got his fourteen milk clean per year. So i don't believe you. I'm not even i'm gonna toss and turn all night. You set all those. Just horrible things about alan iverson. Honestly like i hope you know honestly i e coli i. I'm going to stay away from salads. And i love you marcus. I love you bro. You the vast. I always enjoy having you on his show. You grabbed me out great stuff. I'll catch again real soon. Dude all the best round me man. I talk to you later. My man marcus says the philadelphia inquirer great guy in great writer Check out his stuff. And i can't believe the knife in my chest right now. Mafia talking about a. I like that. Have you written a book. You can become a published author with durins publishing. 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That's eight hundred. Eight zero seven nineteen eighty-one. Don't even recognize myself anymore and really worried about him. It's addiction. I haven't seen them like this ever take. I never wanted to start using. I knew the drill. But i was out of options. I just wanna tell him. It's not your fault thera- people out there who can help people who have felt your pain. They know what you're going through. This has to stop. I'm losing everything everyone you've been strong your whole life. You can do this but you have to reach out for help. It's time i can do. This addiction is a disease and seizes new treatment. Call quick drugs three two one now at eight hundred three eight six nine zero six eight hundred three three eight six nine six. That's eight hundred. Three three eight sixty nine. Oh six paid for by the detox and treatment help line nowhere mafia got all of this funky music that is illegal to play constantly in handcuffs around here with all the rules and such about music. I get so upset about that. Mafia you know that drives me nuts. Wasn't i in music prison last week or the last two weeks started getting all kinds of musicals like we see them up when we started leaving lack freaky pete knicks. I just wanted to say that. I've been breaking rules my whole life and i've had a lot of fun doing it and i'm going to continue to do it until they finally disarray me from this earth so i keep trying to watch the saint. John's game down sixty four sixty. Three two butler. I've turned this game on nine times and it's in a commercial is the deal. Oh it's finally on. They had fifteen minutes of commercial is in the middle of the game. Three minutes left. I mean that was the longest television commercial break. I've ever seen in my life for a basketball game. my god. How can you be as hot as saint. John's has been mafia as hot as all get out and they can't beat butler. I mean butlers. Been horrible. they're up three on saint john's now to forty left. I can't believe that the janis have been on fire. And then you go there. I told you today on because he goes. I'm like go to hang call you'll lose. Let's say it doesn't matter if they were to and twenty. They'll beat anybody in that jim. There's something about the field. How's that places haunted haunted house. Mafia knows there's ghosts that the hinkle fieldhouse they're gonna play. Nc double a. tournament games there. You're gonna see all kinds of big upsets in that building because it's run by ghosts. Paranormal bobby knows. It's true people. Marcus hayes targeted iverson. Could you believe he talks. Bad about alan iverson. One person that upbringing watch him. He's free it's ferrallonthebench sports fans. This is editor check out my show orphan sports byline sunday each and every sunday eight. Am to ten. Am pacific time on door on sports. On the sports byline you were saying and sports byline dot com. You're listening to ferrall on the bench. Here on sports overnight america You're listening to the heartland newsfeed. Radio heartland newsfeed dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. The public service dylan newscast. Avoid the tenth. Twenty twenty one for the biden administration has said it wants to prevent worst-case scenarios due to climate change and states like texas have several risk that needs to be addressed a twenty twenty study by texas am university showed climate change threats texas in the next fifteen years include warmer weather more. Wildfires urban flooding and increase impact from hurricanes that scenario could include people fleeing coastal cities as sea level. Continues to rise univision chief meteorologist eric. Pino pointed to research the shows. The global climate crisis could displays two billion people in the next eight years. People are losing their homes. We see it all the time coming from different countries but also coming from different parts of the us before leaving for all sorts of reasons. I'm ross brown to address. Climate change by already has taken steps to reverse trump administration actions from cancelling the keystone xl pipeline to rejoining the paris climate agreement c. n. n. reports six republicans joined all of their democratic colleagues tuesday to vote that the impeachment trial against former president. Donald trump is constitutional louisiana. Senator bill cassidy was a sole republican to switch his vote after an initial vote on constitutionality last week. The fifty. Six to forty. Four final vote marked. The closing chapter of tuesday's proceedings for the senate adjourned until noon today. She didn't reports all but six. Republican senators voted. The trial was unconstitutional. Because trump is no longer president is the second time such of was taken out. Senator rand paul a kentucky. Republican forced to vote the same question. A north dakota legislative committee has approved a measure that lgbtq advocates say on fairly targets. Transgender athletes. are mike morin reports bill supporters. Say they don't want unfair competition in team sports this week. The house human services committee advanced a proposal that effectively bars public high school athletes who identify as transgender from participating in team sports. That don't align with the sex on their birth certificate. Sponsors say can especially protect female athletes. So they wouldn't have to face competition from athletes born as males but brandy hardy of the north dakota human rights coalition says that argument is counterproductive. I think that it's agreed to stand behind. One movement to push forward hate towards another group of people. Similar legislation has surfaced and other states in recent years. The north dakota bill has some amendments including removing language for college sports or concerns. The law would result in regional schools losing out on hosting events under current rules. In north dakota transgender. Students are allowed to sign up for activities under their. Identifying gender was certain restrictions. This is p. Ns the california public utilities commission meets tomorrow to vote on contracts for more power generation to avoid a repeat of last summer's blackouts clean. Energy groups are saying it's unclear. How much energy we need. Because they feel the state's explanations for the outages are insufficient the california independent system operator known as blamed the blackouts primarily on excessive heat breakdowns at power plants and software issues but loretta lynch former head of the california public. Utilities commission. Says there's more to the story. It may well be the defects in california's electricity market design and in its operations of allowed for trading strategies that created artificial supply shortages and those caused last summer's blackouts. Some fear a repeat of the energy crisis of two thousand when oil companies managed to manipulate the state's electricity market costing billions for public news service. I'm suzanne potter in montana advocates. They're fighting. Cancer are urging state lawmakers not to roll back anti-smoking policies this session. More on that. From eric taken off christine page with the american cancer society cancer action network in montana says one bill house bill to five would allow for the creation of bars where a cigar. Smoking is allowed. Everyone deserves the right to breathe clean. Indoor air smoke free air and no one should have to risk their health to earn a living. The bill received a public hearing. On tuesday one proponent from the organization americans for prosperity. Montana said the bill would benefit entrepreneurs in montana's should be able to make their own choices about smoking. The american cancer society action network also wants montana to maintain nearly five million dollars annually in funding for the state's tobacco prevention and cessation program. Finally diane bernard gives us this. Update following virginia's landmark passage of the clean energy act last year. steady show. Cars and trucks are the leading cause of air pollution in virginia and house. Bill nineteen sixty five would establish stricter clean car emission standards according to harry godfrey with advanced energy economy. He says the bill also would require carmakers to send more electric vehicles or evt's virginia's auto dealers to encourage folks to buy electric low emission vehicles standards and zero emission. Vehicles standards are an important aspect of making certain folks actually have access to these vehicles when they go out to buy a new or used. This is about making certain. Those vehicles are actually coming to virginia. Three other bills passed. The house of the senate would provide an easy rebate program. A grant fun to encourage virginia schools to replace diesel buses with electric ones and one to expand the state's ev charging infrastructure. This is by clifford for public news. Service member a listener supported heard radio stations big and small and online at public news service dot. Org here's a look at weather from. The hawk lands news weather center today. Cloudy and cold forty percent chance of snow accumulation between one and three inches high near nineteen tonight. Snowfall continues cloudy and windy with a low of fourteen. There is a thirty percent chance of continued snow. Thursday cloudy windy and comb high near twenty. That's the latest weather chicago. More news and weather on our website at haukeland dot com. Everyone have issues. doesn't everyone possibly fight for a cause. They believe in or stand up for sunday. Believe doesn't everyone have something going on in their life but they still go to work. You know it's funny. You know me you've nami seventeen years you've seen me go to you can count on one hand. The amount shows. I'd missed on one hand and i'm just telling you like all this talk and i i love marcus hayes. He can say whatever he wants. And i still love him. That he doesn't think everson's better than kyrie irving but the reality is he basically said no one likes him and everyone hated playing with him because he's a ball hog but the reality is in my opinion like numbers. Don't lie everything in the nba is about numbers in rings. And i get that he wanted ring. And i just said it simply add lebron james down iberson never had anything he never had anybody and the bottom line is is that his numbers are so staggeringly higher than kyrie irvings. It's not even funny. I mean kyrie irving has never once gone over thirty points for you know a season like averaged over thirty points. He's never done it so his best season ever twenty five points whatever. Seventeen in college none of never wants iverson beat him in every level college and pro every level every season. What do you think all with you. I think is definitely a more talented player in physically gets it. Probably but i worked hard of the guy would not let anybody beat him because every game and he played every game it was like watching a voodoo doll with all the injuries. The guy would have. They'd played every game everywhere guys. Let's wake people talk about people. Hate him. I think more people hate irving we'll come back and talk about. You're listening to ferrall on the bench here on sports overnight. America here's an important covid nineteen school system update for your local area. If you're concerned about your child's education please pay close attention to this message. 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Thousand four hundred forty minutes eighty six thousand four hundred seconds and we still have trouble squeezing all this glorious sweeping list this sports grid radio network all right so Six foot one hundred sixty five pounds soaking wet fourteen seasons in the end the shooting point guard eleven time. Nba all star was the all star game. Mvp in two thousand one or two thousand five and in two thousand one he was the mvp of the league and he's in the hall of fame and everybody knows he partied. He drank like a fish. The whole deal. And all i know is and i know that after the sixers nuggets pistons grizzlies. It all was kind of a slippery slope down after that. But in philly in philly for me to time like i said. Mvp or the all star game three time all nba first team three time all nba team. All nba team wants rugged here nba first team nba rookie game heavy vp four-time nba scoring champ four times three time nba steals leader. His numbers retired. He was an all american. Georgetown first team all big east. Second team all big east. Two-time time biggies defensive player of the year biggies rookie of the year and a parade. All american twenty four thousand three hundred and sixty eight points. Three three hundred ninety four boards. Five thousand six hundred and twenty four times bronze in athens. I was there when they failed to win the gold medal in athens. I went with my dad to the athens olympics. I went to see basketball soccer. The whole deal dragon field. Boxing still gambling win it. But i'm just saying like i don't have a i mean that's just crazy right like you can't even i mean what are you going to say about that like. I don't even understand how you could. Even i get it. I understand you know what i think. Mafia is is that it's because he's playing now and he's in your vision. He's on your tv. He's in your life you see him on. Espn you see him. You know we certainly see him a lot around here in new york because he's on tv every night playing basketball when he shows up but he was rookie of the year. Slide about cavs first overall pick in the twenty eleven draft six time all star two time. All india won the championship with the cavs in twenty sixteen. Whenever it was. And i won't deny the guys impressive six time. Nba all star nba all star game. Mvp wants iverson. Did it twice all nba second team. All nba. Thirteen not not first team. Nba first team at second and third. He won the three point contest and twenty thirteen. Usa basketball male athlete of the year. Whatever that is feeble world cup. Mvp in two thousand fourteen. I will say this. He won gold in rio. So that's impressive. You know. I'm just telling you like you can talk all you want career twenty two four way less than i mean. Let's face it. Five points huge and then playoff averaged twenty three. It's also under iverson college under iverson. I mean it's all about i get it though. Give him the ring and they'll as better because he's got a ring. That's like saying dan marino sox. Alan iverson never played with anybody. That's just all there is to it and you play with lebron james it. His prime look what happened. The guy went to eight straight finals. I and kyrie irving played with him and one a title and then he couldn't get away from him fast enough. So was it the other way around. They couldn't deal with him then. He went to boston that workout. Now he's in brooklyn work out when they got harden what everybody say mafia they said. How's he going to be able to get along with kyrie irving who's a complete ball hog and it's like marcus said that iverson's a ball hog. What does that make kyrie irving. I mean honestly. I mean i could sit here all day and argue with anybody. And here's another thing in my opinion. And i've said this every time someone asks about it is that iverson there was no one. No one at all could guard him including michael jordan. And that's all there is to it and then fair enough that that people think kyrie's better like steve nash. I get it. But i never saw kyrie irving light up michael jordan. And who did he light up. I mean who did he light up like. Who's better than michael jordan that he's played with. Besides lebron james right you tell me who's better who who's better in terms of who's better than lebron james and the nba. Right now in terms of like that that he's lit up you know when he played they beat they beat the warriors right on his shot. I'll give him natty a game. Winning shot to win the nba title on a team with lebron james. Do you think that kyrie irving could have beaten the warriors without lebron james blocking that shot on the glass and come back from three one down. Do you think they came back from three one down. Because a hammer lebron james poodle and look at the play before that that shot that he got was bronco. Chase block are the ones that shot that he took matter right. So that's my point. I just said same thing. So my point is is who is he broke down. That's better than michael jordan. Who's he broke down as have you ever even seen him breakdown. Lebron james not because he played in boston so did when when he was playing in. Miami was kyrie irving breaking him down. They'll go with the curry county championship. Team yeah you got that right. You got that right. So do you understand where. I'm coming from in this argument. That and i think he said an and like i said i'll say it again for the fifteenth time. I love marcus. This is not about marcus. I can understand why he doesn't like him He was in philly probably turned up. Who knows turned off by him. Whatever but my point is is that i'm always talking about it. Like people always are trying to sell me that this guy's better than that guy because he's no longer in existence he doesn't play he's not on your mind he's not on your tv. You know after he got done playing. He drank himself to death. Nearly whatever you've seen him like i'm surprised. Made it to the hall of fame to get inducted right. But i thought it was great that he did. We all know. He's been a mass. We all know he lost everything and then you know when he turns whatever what is it what he turns is fifty or sixty gets all that money like thirty. Five million from reebok. Bottom line is bottom line. Is the reason why you think kyrie irvings better. Because he's you know he's in the now he's in the news. He's on the nets plan with harden and durant and. I think i'll be honest with you. I didn't kyrie's phenomenal. do i also think harden and durant or both better than i think he's great and i think they're better so you allow me as the leader. Riff china sea ice started riffing and then bottom line is is that he plays when when when harden came that team via everybody said how will they be able to. How will kyrie irving be able to play with harden. Because he's such a ball hog about kyri along with no one. That was the big things that they could get along. The bron can go along with. The this young stars in boston then came to brooklyn was causes stuff uneven play last she was like hey known. Go the bubble. Everyone stood out even when he wasn't playing. He didn't wanna play so always problems. So in your mind seriously. And i think i asked you this already. I gotta hear it again. Who do you think's a better player. Iverson or irving irving has morale. But i'll take it every day because he's going to play his ass off it. He's gonna make you win or exactly. Do your part that's beautiful mafia. More by the minute by the minute. I like you more when we come back. I'll tell you what's happening in these college. And pro games you love. Your dog is something bothering him or her. And you can't figure out what it is. Maybe they seem slow or lethargic and maybe they just don't have energy when you like your dog to be living their very best life pedroia offers a money back guarantee on all of its products. If your dog won't eat it or you don't see the results you want. Just let us know. And we'll make it right totally risk-free what are you have to lose. You can't buy peg joy multivitamins in a store. The only way you can get them is through this unique radio offer and if you call right now learn how to get two bottles free with your order. Turn your dog's life around and make him or her a happy camper right boy. He said call peg joy right now. Eight hundred eight four six two one five three eight hundred eight four six two one five three eight hundred eight four six two one five three. That's eight hundred eight four six twenty one fifty three. Do you need to sell your home if you sold a home before. You're remember how stressful and expensive it was sold dot com. 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They're with smartfares. See smartfares deals with the airlines. When they have unsold seats they use smartfares to fill them. So you get airline tickets at ridiculously low prices. Our prices are to low to publish online with the extra money. You'll save you. Can book another trip or treat yourself to dinner or shopping so stop searching all of those travel sites to find the lowest price on your next flight. Let one of our smartfares expert travel agents find ridiculously low prices for you call smartfares today and get the best price on your next flight. Guaranteed also save up to fifty percents of business in first class tickets. Eight five five three two five one seven eight zero eight five five three two five one seven eight zero. That's eight five five three to five seventeen eighty now back to the bench with scott ferrall on sports overnight. America saint john's has the rock with fifteen seconds left in overtime. They're down three butler. Turn the ball over on a pass down from the top of the free. Throw line two down low into the block and the guy it went off of his hands and he lost the ball out of bounds and then the wrath called it butler ball. It was like the worst call. I've seen in a month. In any sport it was so bad and they had to reverse because the ramp was so corrupt. Mavi you saw that play in real time that butterball the guy the ball went off and this guys and so bad. It was inviting now. That look like a foul to me when he drove the basket. And if imagine that an and one the basket. That was my idea. Because i didn't think that Butler is gonna let him shoot a three. They'd foul him and make him shoot. Free throws down three right. But i like the idea of driving to the ten because i think is are so stupid. When they're playing they wanna to defend that drive so a guide right. There defended him. You saw to play followed him all the way to the basket and fouled the crap out of him and then they didn't call the file they just called a loose ball that went out of bounds. Still john's ball. You cannot tell me. Mafia foul on the guy at the basket for butler. You can't tell me that wasn't a foul clean. Because his arms up he never reached vote. He's moving with them. I call clean foul when he drove on that guy. I don't think he played good. Deeds kept his hands. Straight up never reached us the thing you keep them up your straight and you're okay. Why don't you reach into their spaces where they nail you yeah. I don't believe that that whole role of that whole rule of keep your hands up and they'll never call the fallon you. They still call the foul with your hands. Air ninety percent of the time do because roast were guys in the nba. Up straight up all the time and they still get called for the foul and then when the rebels would like i got my hands straight up in here and they still call them 'cause rap sock in college and pro but i thought he drove there and got fouled and got no love at all and then they got the call with the loose ball so now they've got like seven seconds to get at three off or to drive that attend and get fouled and get an an one day. I think now butler knows that they tried to drive and get the foul and they're not going to succeed at that again. I think now they need to get an in fake three pass to someone for three and get a clean look often shoot it. And hopefully china game. Here's the inbounds they go cross-court deep shoddy bricks. It they still got a loose ball. Shoot it up in the air. Air ball game over there. You go game over. That was horrible. What a horrible possession. For saint johns they lose seventy seven seconds. Why they got through the court pass. You didn't have to take that shot. It could take a dribble got space. And that shot. He wasn't on balance borsa went out. That was terrible. I thought it was a terrible shot to. I thought it was terrible. Possession altogether so there you go saint. John's loses that's a. That's a bad bet right there tonight but i hit everything else. I hit west. Virginia beating texas tack in lubbock. How about that. They were getting like five to many points. So mattis largest tell you what happened in college. Basketball butler wins. Seventy six. seventy. Three notre dame beat duke ninety eighty nine duke. Officially on the suck. Watch arkansas eighty one. Eighty over kentucky. They were getting one or one and a half when we were on coast to coast today. It went from arkansas being favored elaine. One to getting one and a half dayton lost. I went with date and vcu every six sixty seven. I did save these us better. But they're planning. I think they can give them a game and they didn't not much one anyway. Same bonnie by thirteen over lasalle. I think that number was thirteen. I pushed alabama beat south carolina. But they didn't cover. They were laying five. I think they won. By three eighty one seventy eight syracuse winning in raleigh against nc state seventy seven sixty eight. They were getting one I gave you a michigan state. They wanted they didn't cover the two hundred six they lose. They win by two so the hook. Be your bad beat. Their can state. I picked seventy one sixty seven. I just want to look at that number again. I have it right here. i looked at it. Today can stay was a straight pick when i Got him on fan. Duel taxes one. They didn't cover against kansas state. They were laying fifteen. They won by three. That's embarrassing auburn. Won by six. They were laying five and a half. I lost by hook there as well. I hit west. Virginia spread eighty to seventy one texas tack creighton. I hit blowing out georgetown tonight. Land six and sixty three forty eight and wins by f- three. They were laying five and a half. They didn't cover either everything else was postponed. Nba right now early in the third. Utah leads boston. Fifty three fifty two good game on. Tnt the blazers are up sixty to forty nine on the magic with about nine minutes. Left in the third sixers trail the king. Six and a half left in the third eighty one. Seventy six kings are leading the golden one in town. I went with the king's blazers jazz to win. Celtics to cover games. Blazers elated kings. I was getting four. I think it went to five it or something like that and then i hit the heat to win. Next plus seven. I hit the pistons plus nine against the nets. Hit the pelicans to win and laying at a look at that number. The pelicans line was four. They win by twenty nine. They blow out the rockets and the warriors i was getting one and a half and they one big one fourteen ninety one over the spurs and now as avi after losing to the spurs last night by four and in this one curry as thirty two and lights up. Did you see curry shot. His backward shot is flick up off the glass. Not facing the basket looking the other way flicked one over his shoulder and it went in. Did you see that shot. Mafia or did see that i was insane. I mean sometimes the way these guys have got insane awareness of where. The basket is incredible. Like you made we do that. That's going over. The backward into the fan stands at anywhere you know people would have been even though no one's there now it's not goes in the net. He was eleven twenty from the floor. Four of ten from downtown four boards two times and did all that with just one foul so impressive performance by mr curry this evening. In the pelicans win. And i've been talking about this team. They're playing well all of a sudden or one game under five hundred and that game scientists twenty and five seven times five boards seven ingram twenty two five and three lonzo had fifteen six three and three threes ingram three threes bledsoe to threes. How about a josh. Hart with a twenty spot. Tonight and seventeen rebounds. Jesus josh are twenty points. Seventeen rebounds three times. That's a hell of a game right. There gomez a fourteen ten to double double mafia loves the double double pelicans on fire all of a sudden in the pistons win over the nets. The nets have lost three in a row. Your boy steve. Nash who says earnings better than alan iverson hall of famer. He said that it's a question of basically do they have enough desire and a pride. Today they have enough gumption to go out and and want to win games and the will to win apparently not and then kyrie irving said. We worked too hard to lose all these games. Apparently you're not working hard enough. He had twenty seven tonight hard. Twenty four and twelve dimes. The double double mafia loves the double double and then I mean that was it for them but the other side. Jeremy granted thirty two. He lit it up for threes. Eleven of nineteen four five boards. Four pistons win. I was getting nine in that. I told you the heat win the game. All the matter to me was watching de rose go for fourteen with three assess a steel and a block shot. I thought he was incredible. And then for the heat butler had twenty six. All and twenty including six of eight from downtown tyler. Hero had a fifteen spot. He'd beat him again. What does that three straight over the next. And then now it's kings eighty one eighty over the sixers five and a half left in the third blazers sixty seven fifty one of agic seven left in the third and this game is fifty five eighty four jazz nine forty four left in the third so there you go and then As far as hockey goes tonight chats and flames in a good one in forever berta two in the second with a minute and a half left vegas up for one with a minute of the second over. The ducks sharks. In king's attitude tattoos. I hit the panthers to over the red wings. Adp oilers three two over the senators. The lightning pounced on the predators. I went with the upset with the predators onion. Pick tonight and got burned again. Ten to two and goals last two nights by the lightning over the predators. The blackhawks beat the stars. I lost that in Time and we told you the story today was Ron hextall gets the penguins. Gm job and brian burke gets the president of hockey operations. Job at sixty six to run the penguins. And bottom line is brian. Burke report to morehouse and the owners. Burkle immu and ron hextall will report to burke. And that's the chain of command. Eight four four eight four three sixty eight seventy nine. I'm ron far host of sports byline. Usa we get together each week night to hear from the biggest names in sports. So we invite you to join us. Attempt he m eastern seven. Pm pacific on the sports byline usa broadcast network. You're listening to ferrall on the bench here on sports overnight. America do you own a timeshare but can't use it because of travel restrictions change in life circumstances or perhaps you can no longer afford the monthly payments or annual maintenance fees if you feel stuck or you just need to get out of your timeshare. Newton group is here for you. They are the nation's oldest timeshare relief company which means you can trust them either of us. They have an a plus rating from the better business bureau. 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You can fly anywhere in the world and pay discount prices on your airline tickets a flight today to london. Paris madrid or anywhere. You wanna go and pay a lot. Less guaranteed call the international travel department right now at low cost airlines eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one eight hundred seven five four four five three one. That's eight hundred seven five four forty five thirty one. Do you own an annuity either. Fixed rate indexed variable fees and getting low returns if so annuity general would like you to have this free book to learn the pitfalls mistakes if buying an annuity. The annuity do's and don'ts for baby boomers contains the little known truths about annuities like how to help reduce your fees and increased retirement income. And it's free. That's right free as a bonus. We'll also throw in a free annuity rate report. Just for calling. We researched over one thousand nine hundred eighty s and summarized rates and benefits from financially strong. Serves you get annuity. Do's and don'ts for baby boomers and the annuity rate report. Both absolutely free for calling annuity general. Today hurry supplies are limited. Call now eight hundred seven six one eight four five eight hundred seven six zero one eight four five eight hundred seven six zero one eight four five. That's eight hundred seven. Six eighteen forty five now back to the bench with scott ferrall on sports overnight america. As long as you can remember news only ever been one thing in your life. That's been there for you. It's memory family friend. We'll say for welcome to your home for talking sports. This is the sports radio network. Conley's tonight the jazz of opened up a ten point. Lead in the third was six and a half to go on the celtics. So have you seen the The baseball story mafia that. They're going to change the baseball's again. I think there was a point. Where did they all the balls. Were flying out of the products that they wouldn't admit that the ball's tighter and that they acted like they were normal and everything was kosher and there was no problem at all and they weren't doing anything to the baseball's wasn't that pretty much the case today ever admit to remember you're telling me. They admitted that they made him fly out. Not never the. They said it was a same ball. Not the new. And i don't know what you're talking about. It's just maybe it's just the way things are going to the bats so the players. They never admitted their doctor. The bully everyone knew was real so game is played now right all they talk about is launch angle and you know the speed of the ball off of the bad and you know all these analytic terminology diaz and they show all this stuff when you're watching a game. They got all these graphics where they show the ball leaving the bat and now it flies and at what speed and everything else now. And i just think it's just stupid. I mean i guess fair enough. I'll never i'll never understand. I get do they do that for some reason. The younger generation or something. Do they actually believe that young kids are. Let's say between the ages of. I don't wanna use the eighteen to thirty four analogy. Because i know i have. I have a sixteen year old a thirteen year old and the sixteen year old likes baseball and he likes you know the game and and i don't i don't actually believe he sits around studying launch angles and bats speed in the ball leaving the bat. At what speed. And whatever the hell else is there any other terms. I'm missing your mafia with the baseball. What they do now at home runs. They have all these different courses of million terms. I can't even keep track of them. All i mean they makeup terms every day for different things are now tracking are calculating. It's ridiculous anyway. So now they literally they talk about the bounciness of the ball and everything else and you know the new ball not dimension humidors. They talk about the where they keep the balls and you know i it just. It's just the craziest thing right anyway. So launch angles and all the and all the stuff this analytics. It drives me nuts. Like it's simple for me. I pitched the ball hit the ball. Hit a home run. Catch the ball steal the base hit. The runner overheard get ahead and drive in the run score. More runs the other team win the game. Close the game. I bring any reliever closed the game. Now we talk about all these stats and all this these angles and all this other stuff the speed of the ball and coming off the bad and how high when how far when everything else and it's because the boss reduced they never wanted to admit it but you know if it and here's why i am convinced that they were juiced first of all more home runs than ever right just absolutely more home runs than ever when you watch baseball now. There are more home runs than there are hits. There's more home runs now than anything. Singles doubles triples. There's more home runs. There's probably more author is in baseball. Nowadays you know it's true off. Its strike outs and home runs. that's all. Is you guys. Go up to the plate and they swing away and they either strike out or they hit a home run hit four. That was obvious right there that that was a home run and then i feel like When you watch the game now you all you see a strike outs in home runs. And there's bag cut. The deadly waited. That one recognized ex-girlfriend across the bar that was actually the reds announcer. That got fired last year. Then my next depressing direct for your debut on is gonna be brought myers that show still on. I think it is isn't it I think last season was the last season the one that they had in the pandemic but that was brought by. Yes you boy. Hankers air back. I like that guy so anyway I think the product game recognize game. Here we go game game. I can't even do it anymore. All i know is is that game recognizes game now. I think that when you watch the game now all you see his home runs and strike. Outs it sucks. You want to know. Why baseball socks. There's your reason right there. And i agree with anyone that mrs you know. Budding the runner over hit and run. You know in the gap hit hit down the line. Hot corner smash the ball. Past the third baseman or the first baseman gopher to stealing bases ricky henderson louvre. Lock defense with guys like ozzie smith. I still think you see defense in baseball. And it's typically guys making catch at the law because there's home runs flying out and the balls flying out every game. Multiple home runs every game. And then you've got guys jumping over the fence and making catches but turning double plays and you know all the little nuances baseball to me or gone. Because of baseball juicing the balls and believing that chick stick the long ball and buying into that all people care about. Is the home run because they put on there stupid ass home. Run derby every year at the all-star week which is essentially akin to standing in line at disneyworld all day in paying five thousand dollars to do it like i don't want to stand in line all day. Doing anything mafia knows. I will not stand in line anywhere. i'm not going to the dmv either. I'm not doing it. i just won't do it. I'd rather i'd rather drive illegally. Then stand in line all day at some dmv. Some backward asked government run office that is pathetic every state everywhere you go. It's the worst. Well it's the same thing as baseball. It's so bad. And then they they won't admit that they Juice the balls and you know now you know they juice the balls because it's pretty simple if he asked me they never admitted they juice the balls which they did but now you know that just because they're changing the balls so they add to have changed them before. Does that make sense. Mafia if if you can change them now and dead in them and make them Fly shorter distances. Which is what they're saying. The ball is not going to travel. As far it's deadened it's going to be caught by the outfielder it. You're gonna have to really hit it now actually to hit a home run because now in baseball you have to do a swing make contact and it goes four hundred fifty feet. Because the ball's juiced do you believe that by admitting that they're gonna deaden the ball's juiced them before. Of course. I always believe they. Juiston never believe their lies always commissioners and he's leagues. They always give your whole bunch of ps especially. Be stupid enough to buy it because most people don't care like yeah whatever i home runs. That's all they care about but people like us who know the game who've been watching it our whole lives say you're full of it. You did something to make this fly out. You're not use the players so you're choosing the balls and now they're saying oh we're going to dead in them. Obviously something's mcdonagh realized all right this ridiculous that everyone's just hitting the ball left and right there we're breaking records like it's nothing. This is insane. We need to get back to what the game should be. And they're fixing the balls that they screwed up in the first place. Do you think that Because you remember when they used to south chicks dig the long ball. Here's an idea. let's still wanna go. Well that's fine but it was but my point is is that chicks don't dig the long ball because they don't dig baseball. I mean there's what one in every twenty five checks that like baseball and ten. Don't tell me you like baseball just because you go to one game every summer. You know wherever you live at city field. If it's yankee stadium or if it's in kansas city or if it's in los angeles if you go to one or two games a year with your boyfriend or husband and you sit there and eat ice cream and popcorn and watch a game doesn't mean you like baseball. I'm sorry it doesn't if you like baseball. If you truly like baseball mafia you had to watch baseball every night. And at least four or five games a week you gotta watch this. Listen you gotta you. Gotta you know people that i believe people that love baseball watchet read about it and don't miss it ever. They watch every day to have it on their dna under radio. Read about it every morning and the vapors go online and read about it. They follow their team. Follow the players. They know everything. i do. Not believe chicks dig the long ball. I believe chicks could care less about baseball. They could care less about it overall. I know a handful of women that like baseball a handful. I'm talking one handful. I'm not talking both hands. I know one handful of women that like baseball. I mean really like it and follow it like crazy and this is not a slight at all on women. This is chicks. dig the lonzo ball. How my ass dig baseball at all if they did You know they'd be diving into it. And like i think guys i think checks like jessica mendoza. She loves it. I think she's great. But i think you know her love affair baseball's legit. I promise anybody that loves baseball. I really don't. I bought baseball for fifty years so i know everything about baseball. All i know is i follow it and i still think it's boring. Here's my fat boring. A woman can't really love a man unless he's part dope be a little stupid everyday and really stupid once in a while. But just don't be perfect. That was mafias speech at his wedding rehearsal or wedding. What was it the reception. That was that was actually from the reception. Can you play that again. This is dramatic. That's getting married now or have like out on a new kid. I think he should go back. And listen to your speech at your at your reception listening. Here's my theory. A woman can't really love a man unless he's part dope be a little stupid every day and really stupid once in a while but just don't perfect great so mafia. Now i know. Kristen likes baseball. She likes sports right but she likes baseball but does she really like it. I mean like really like like diehard like where's your baseball cap and reads the baseball Standings every day and everybody looks at all the game recaps and everything now. She likes sports but she doesn't look like any sports. She's not into any sport like that and she played college softball. She doesn't care about people that much. I mean i barely care about it that much. She played wait. She played college baseball and and she still doesn't care because she doesn't give a rat's ass because no one. Does you know why no one cares anymore about baseball because it's boring and they need to fix it and if it means deadening baseball's and putting syrup in them i'm all for me. Do you think the game would be better. If there was like mrs butterworth's like syrup in the baseball were sticky and they would stick to the wall. Have you written a book. You can become a published author with dorrance publishing. The nation's publishing services company countless authors trusted durance for nearly a hundred years to bring their book to the market are professional team will editor text design your book pages and create an appealing eye-catching custom cover plus benefit from custom book promotion marketing campaign. That makes your book available where people buy books like amazon and brick and mortar bookstores. So make this free call right now to claim your free author's guida publishing don't wait another day take one step closer to realizing your dream of becoming a published author and seeing your name in print. You've already written a book so the next thing to do is make this free call right now to dorrance publishing and get your free guide to publishing call right now. Eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three eight hundred four eight five six zero zero three. That's eight hundred. Four eight five six zero zero three. We are the debt destroy network any debt. You have credit card tents student. Loan debt call now for free information. That helps you destroy your dead. It's great advice plus when you make this free call now. We have jet destroyer experts. Ready to help. They can show you how to destroy your debt and get your life back on track debt. 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My heater stopped working. I got it fixed at no out of pocket cost for about one dollar a day you can have all the major appliances and systems in your home guaranteed fixed or replaced with. Hse's home warranty coverage call now and the first month is free. If the lines are busy please call back. Eight hundred four one zero four seven seven one. Eight hundred four one. Oh four seven seven one. Eight hundred four one. Oh four seven seven one. That's eight hundred four one. Oh forty seven seventy one awesome. I said what do you think of the mavericks. Not playing the national anthem in their games. Preseason or regular season of any of their games in dallas and mafia goes. I don't give a i was like. What do you mean he goes. They should worry about their office. Management of how they run their sexual harassment division at the mavericks instead of worrying about the national anthem police So nowadays everybody gets all bent out of shape about the national anthem in this country that you know they kneel the players neil. They don't respect the flag because they don't respect police brutality. 'cause a cabinet and everything else and now the cuban lead mavericks. Don't play the national anthem. But i would agree with mafia that day. It's funny coming from them. The ones that had all the people that were did the franchise complain about being sexually harassed at work every day. That they're the ones breaking new ground and not playing the national anthem with their maverick no pun intended owner. Mark cuban on notoriously. From pittsburgh. Where i grew up in the same town. Same neighborhood and went to indiana. Just like i did. The problem with him is he's older and uglier than me and it's true mafia noses through we were on dialysis. I met a guy today in the gym. Avi new guy moved to town. He's got a new job and he said i said i said i in dallas a lot and he said what you do in dallas. I said i jumped naked into a lake. And he said what i said. Have you ever heard of lake. Luis valley goes yeah. Did a drunken orgy street. Getting a nudity festival in lake lewisville and he said. Are you ferrall like yeah. I remember that on the ticket there. You go mafia. You remember our road trip to dallas a lot of nudity. Streaking swimming naked beer and women. I'll see you tomorrow at four on coast to coast. Ports rages next denied. You missed something from today's show you can find it now. On iheartradio talk. I heart radio dot com slash. Talk a special news an update station. You control follow us on iheartradio. Talk and stay in touch twenty four seven. This is sports overnight. America from usa. Radio news with lance cry. The senate has voted fifty six to forty four to proceed with the impeachment of president. Trump impeachment manager representative jamie raskin. The sound of pounding on the door like a battering ram to most haunting sound. I ever heard. And i will never forget it. Trump attorney david shown grave concern for the danger to the institution of the presidency. That i believe even convening these proceedings indicates the joy. I believed. I would feel if i ever had the great privilege of appearing before this body replaced by sadness and pain after president biden destroyed thousands of jobs within minutes of his presidency with the stroke of a pen. Senator joe manchin. A democrat from west virginia is urging president biden to reverse course on the keystone excel pipeline in a new letter to the president and tuesday mansion. Argued that the pipeline is the safest mode to transport oil natural gas resources and support american union jobs. Usa radio news totally normal to be constipated with belly pain straining and bloating again and again no way you could have. 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For ninety days visit lens desk dot com or call one eight hundred l. i. n. z. E. s. s. sponsored by abby and ironwood pharmaceuticals will the covid nineteen vaccine shot. Become an every year normality. Usa radio news iraqi reports community health centers will begin at doses of virus vaccine. The white house announced on tuesday as cvs and walgreens pharmacies began to administer shots later this week. Johnson and johnson ceo. Alex gorski believes trip to the pharmacy for a covid shot. Maybe thing for several more years he tells. Cnbc that a yearly vaccine much like the flu shot may be necessary. I think most people feel that this will be something were likely for the next several years. we'll be. We'll be getting a kobe. Nineteen shot just like. We would have flu shot now. Exactly what that shot is going to be comprised of. i don't think we know today. but I think we could all imagine a future where we're living with this That where we can keep the science at pace with the virus So the cheap out. Living our lives from the usa radio news ohio bureau. I'm dan to rocky. Usa radio news. You've heard me talking about my pillow for three years folks. That's the truth. I get the best sleep of my life with a my pillow. You can do it to sixty day. Money back guarantee ten year warranty made in the usa. Your sleep well. Or you'll get your money back. Go to mypillow dot com. Click on the radio listener special. Use my promo code. Usa get two my pillow premium pillows for the price of one or call one eight hundred nine five one eight one seven five. Get the best sleepy your life and do it now. After being tonight access to investigate the origins of the corona virus for over a year the world health organization now says it did not originate in a lab. Usa radio news timberg reports. A team of experts from the world health organization is wrapping up their work in wuhan china where they've been investigating the origins of the covid nineteen pandemic the team saying the virus that causes covid nineteen most likely entered the human population through an intermediate animal in his highly unlikely to have leaked from a laboratory. Former secretary of state. Mike pompeo tells fox news. he's not buying it. I've seen that headline. And i must say the reason we left. The world health organization was because we came to believe that it was corrupted had been politicized it was bending a need to general secretary shipping in china. I hope that's not the case here with what they've announced today. I'll forward to seeing their and analysis. But i don't believe it's the case that they got access that they need. I know they didn't get access. The need in a timely fashion. And i hope i hope that they got to see all the data. All the science into the lab talk to the and talked to the doctors interview them interview them in private places where they could actually tell the truth about what took place under the supervision of a communist party Person sitting in the back of the room making sure that they told the communist party live from the usa. Radio news phoenix bureau. I'm timberg are unconfirmed. Reports the who never given access to these suspected wuhan lab during their investigation. Now is a great time to replace your worn out windows during the renewal by anderson twenty years savings event upgrade your home today by four windows and get the fifth one free plus get twelve months with no interest. No money down no payments call. Now get four windows and get the fifth one free installation and warranty included renewal by anderson. Takes every cdc recommended safety precaution to protect your family for twenty five years. People have trusted us for their window. 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Now you've probably read or heard some of the comments by the big names in the nba. Anthony davis and also lebron james and others. They're saying no. And even lebron said he thinks it's a slap in the face and aside for being a slap in the face to the players. I think it's stupidity. I know why they're doing it. It's money of course but really you think about the the players being in the bubble for such a long time away from their families and also a lot of them have said that they were looking to the five day break between the first half of the nba season and the second half. And now that's going to be taken away from a lot of players that are hall of famers doubt about it or their stars in the nba. But still i think the nba should be rethinking this but we want to know what you think about it again. Given the pandemic should the nba play and all star game. You'll founded on the homepage at sports. Byline dot com. That beef between tom. Brady anti-religion matthew may already be over with a brady. Sent matthew. A lengthy text message immediately after the game ended apologizing for the onfield run ins. They had during the game and brady told matthew he watched him since his days at lsu considered a class act and a great leader he also said that he wished he could have apologized in person and that is outbursts emotional moment where no way a reflection of his feeling towards matthew whom he spoke highly of throughout the week leading up to the game. And it's not clear what initially caused the to start yacking at each other. But with tampa bay dominating the chiefs the mood on the chiefs sideline wasn't exactly joyful and tempers were flaring and then it spilled out on the field. We're gonna be talking with ryan murphy injustice. Second he's going to be hopefully one of the athletes representing the united states in swimming at the olympic games if they have them in japan he's a three time olympic gold medalist and a world record holding swimmer. And and then we'll talk some soccer. With shep messing retired american soccer goalkeeper. He played seven seasons in the north american soccer league. And six in the major indoor soccer league. So we're ready to go. We're coming back with olympian ryan murphy as we continue on sports byline. You love your dog. Is something bothering him or her. And you can't figure out what it is. Maybe they seem slow or lethargic and maybe they just don't have energy wouldn't you like your dog to be living their very best life. Pedroia offers a money back guarantee on all of its products. If your dog won't eat it you don't see the results you want. Just let us know. And we'll make it right totally risk-free what are you have to lose. You can't buy joy multivitamins in store. 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Olympic gold medalist and a world record holding swimmer and he is preparing for the delay. Twenty one olympic games in tokyo this summer. The olympic trials though will be held in june ryan. First of all. I know sports generally has a rhythm to it. What has been the dynamic of the breaking of the rhythm of having the olympics. Every four years particularly for you swimmers. Yeah i think there there definitely is a rhythm this sport in the way we approach each year in the quad like what we refer to the four years of of building towards the olympics as the quad so every year. It's gonna be a little bit different to try to make sure that a year peaking at the end of those four years i think for us that means that we were doing a lot of really really solid work last year kind of through january february time frame and then once we get some march for really trying to hone in on race strategy that that kind of lined up with when the olympic decision came down to suppose code so that point where we take a step back all right Now now you're going be in in july twenty twenty one. So so how do we. How do we take what we've done here build upon it so that we're ready for next summer and i think we've we've done a really nice job. I think i know the answer to this one. I suppose that you and the other swimmers and even add olympic athletes. Probably put out of your mind. What if it doesn't come about this. Yeah i yeah honestly. You're you're right. I i have a hard time wrapping wrapping my head around that And and i really. I really try not to focus on it on on a day to day basis. I'm expecting to to push myself to my absolute limit And i in the back of my head was thinking that you know. Potentially i'm not gonna get to see a reward of all that work. It would that would be pretty draining on a day to day basis. So i i'm keeping my head and it's going to go on and and i really do feel confident about that. Seeing that that all kinds of other sports have gone on. They figured out ways to do it. It might take some some creative thinking but i. i'm. I'm on willing to accept that that they can't figure out a way to get this on. There are some dynamics though. You're going to be facing this time around. And one is of course quarantining which has been going on and then a swimming in a bubble and i'm just wondering that's something that you all have never had to do. Our athletes primarily have never had to do before. What about that unique nature of that. You just give it a thought and then forget about it or do you keep putting it into perspective so you can perform as well as you can. Yeah i i think when they whenever the the guidelines are agreed upon and then then all will create a plan for that. I think right now. The situation is so fluid day-to-day and and we two weeks that that kind of impossible to plan what the situation is going to be like six months from now. 'cause that's one. Yeah that's when the olympics are going to be going on So so for me. Like i really try to keep my focus on on the day to day right now What i can't project these. And what time i training this week and it's it's a little bit tough with with the pandemic just making sure that i might focus that narrow But but that's how i've been dealing with this entire situation. And and that's i'm gonna keep on approaching it all the way up until the summer i mentioned about the olympic trials will be held in june. Some of my friends track and field athletes. Who have been olympia ins as well always told me that the hardest competition is really making the us olympic team and track and field. Is it the same way and swimming as well. One one hundred percent and definitely an ambassador which is which other races that. And i'll be trying to make the olympics and the americans are is incredible at actor We always seem to have like three guys in the top. Five in the world and both events l. May two of them could go. And if your top five in the world that means like you. You've got a really really solid shot. At winning a medal at the olympics so every single everything olympic trials were or leaving home someone that is a potential olympic medalist And and that's that's great. You know like. I feel like by the time we get through. Trials were were battle-tested but it does make trials very very challenging for for the americans But we'd have it any other way. You're a three time. Olympic gold medalist world record holder. And as you were talking there. I was just thinking. I don't know how anybody gets their mind. Around the fact that there are two spots for that particular discipline it comes along every four years the olympics. You put everything into one basket. How does one deal knowing that if you don't get those top two spots then you're not going to the olympics and you put all this time energy and focus into it one hundred percent. Yeah i think. It's i think at this point in my career. I really really enjoy the process of trying to get better. I love waking up. I enjoy working out on a daily basis. I enjoy eating healthy. And i think having joy in in some in some of the work it it makes it makes it easier whereas like no i like even if i don't make doing things don't go the way i want to go. I did everything that and that's a better feeling than feeling like i. I held back at all Just try to dull the pain in the back that don't make it so it definitely an interesting interesting Like pressure situation. But i wouldn't want it any other way. You know it's interesting. You bring that up. Because when i started this network back in nineteen eighty eight billie jean king. Who's one of my limited partners. And somebody i love and respect greatly. I told her i had this idea. Nobody had done it. There wasn't such a thing as a national sports. Talk radio network. And i said i don't know whether to do it or not. I don't know anything about business. And she looked me. In the i ryan and she said ron. I think i know you better well enough that you don't wanna look over your shoulder and wonder if you could have and that's exactly what you were saying. Wasn't it exactly exactly. Yeah you nailed it. And i think there i think there's so many parallels between the mentality it takes a to start your own sports sports radio network and and then what it takes to to become an olympic champion. There's a level of okay a level of determination that you have to have to be accessible in any area lights and so it definitely applies to most boy areas. You have other interests. Of course you have a passion for investing and you're already laying the groundwork for your future in that air. Tell me a little bit about why that interest was her correlation between swimming and the discipline of that. And the discipline of this investing. Yeah i think the one of the things that i go drop ways i think school really seriously My my grandpa math textbooks living. My mom is a college professor and math so academics with very highly prioritized in my family When i got out of school. I was a little bit nervous about entering a career. Where i'm most of the time this working on on how primed. I could get my body to compete. I was worried about the the mental side I was worried about feeling. Like i was losing kind of mental sharpness as a result of just training all the time and not having some sort of mental stimulation throughout the day that let me do investing and and i do consider myself very fortunate to have some really great partners That allowed me to keep my focus on the training. And i've got a little bit of fashion now that i could play within the in the stock market. And i think that's a really really cool thing like i. I love the intersection of what people investment landis. It can look a little bit different if you want money back in a a year versus fifteen years and and all of that. Consumer psychology intersects in the market. I i find it incredibly interesting and it. It definitely still the the nerdiness that that i have it might be. We only have forty five seconds left. But you know when. I think about what you do as an athlete. And what. You're trying to do professionally. I have so much respect for that. And i'm just wondering what was that one driving force in your life. What what was it that has made you and stayed you on the on the track ambition paired with incredible support. I've always been around great people at a great family. Great coaches create friends Great girlfriend they all need to be my best. And then internally. I have an ambition to be great in a lot of different areas of life ryan. I wanna thank you very much. This has been a very insightful interview. I always liked talking to swimmers. Because i very always found him ticket and really fun. Also gymnasts the same way as well so thank you very much for joining us really appreciate the time. This is awesome ryan murphy with us again. Look for him in the olympics. Hopefully they've got the summer olympics coming up if they go off that'll be in tokyo. Two thousand twenty one games and of course. They have the olympic trials. That'll be held in june as well interesting to hear what he said about the discipline. It takes in order to be a high level swimmer or almost any athlete. You have to have both the mental and the physical as well. We continue across the country and around the world. We've got you on sports byline. Hello and welcome back to the ronnie deutsche tax program on the line is paul from california. Hi paul what's your tax problem today. Hi ronnie love your show listen. I've got big problem. You see my paycheck guards last week and only get half the normal amount to make matters. Worse the irs froze my bank account. Listen i'm embarrassed and scared. I need some help. Listen paul you need to feel embarrassed. He just needs some tax help in the great news is the. Irs has some unbelievable programs that can eliminate your tax debt. So you don't have to worry about having your paycheck garnished or your bank levied doesn't sound great sure does ronnie do yourself a huge favor and get a free consultation right now and tell them the tax lady sent you eight five five seven one five five seven two one eight five five seven one five five seven two one eight five five seven one five five seven to one. That's eight five five seven one. Five fifty seven twenty one if you or a loved. One is suffering from a physical or emotional condition. That is left. You unable to work then. Listen carefully take this number down. Eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one. That's eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one when you call you'll speak with the social security disability expert and get a free evaluation to see if you may qualify for disability insurance benefits from the us government. That's right a monthly cash payment paid directly to you from the social security administration whether you're applying for the first time or you've already been denied disability benefits call now the disability attorneys at pinnacle disability can help you build your case file an appeal and represent you at no upfront cost to you. Don't wait another minute to see if you may qualify for your social security disability benefits called pinnacle disability group at eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one for your free case evaluation. That's eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one eight hundred five nine three seven four nine one call now. We are the debt destroyer network. You have credit card. Ted's student loan debt call now for free information. That helps you destroy your debt. It's great advice plus when you make this free call now. We have debt destroyer experts. Ready to help the show. You how to destroy your debt and get your life back on track debt. Problems don't have to be overwhelming. You could live and debt free credit cards medical bills. Irs tax problems even student loan debt. Learn about free programs offered by the credit card companies hospitals. And even the government that can help slash your debt call the debt destroyer now for free information call now. Eight seven seven three six zero four zero two eight seven seven three six zero zero four zero two eight seven seven three six zero zero four zero. That's eight seven seven. Three six zero zero four zero. This is america sports. Talk show sports byline. Usa here's ron messing joins us. On sports byline retired american soccer goalkeeper. He played seven seasons in the north american soccer league in six in the major indoor soccer league and he was also a member of the us soccer team back in the nineteen seventy two olympics. Which will talk about those games in munich chef. I got to know you a little bit. When i was doing the game on june fourth. Nineteen seventy six in seattle when you were playing goalkeeper for the new york cosmos and it was pays last game there and that was in the early days of soccer in the united states. But let me take you back before we talk about that to new york. You were born in the bronx. He grew up in the new york. Area tell me a little bit about what that was like for you. Well ron thank you for having me on. And yes i'm an original new yorker born in the bronx and and it's pretty hard for me to believe looking back now. At the course i took. I never saw a soccer ball until i was sixteen years old. I i was a typical new yorker In the city and then long island and my sports were Stick ball in the street. Baseball football american football basketball. And it wasn't until i was sixteen years old and living on long island. I went to a high school that. Ironically i i played american football for them and and there was a an injury to a player and they disbanded American football at the school so as a three sports athlete. What am i gonna do in the fall. I'm not gonna not gonna run cross country and and coach came up to me and he said. Look your point guard in basketball. All your a shortstop. In baseball i need a goalkeeper and i had literally league never seen a game before but i saw never forget that day because it did kind of change the course of my life. He brought me to watch your game. And i saw ten guys running around like crazy and one guy was dressed in black looking cool standing in the goal and catching the ball and i said i think i could do that. And and that really was a i. Guess looking back at turning point for mass was. Did you take a little bit of razzing because you were going towards soccer rather than the other sports that you talked about that was played in the in the communities on the street the stick ball and everything is no question. I mean for for us back in those days. Soccer was the The counter culture sport we were called communist so that we will not real athletes. And and and you know for me. Part of the joyous journey was that. I figured out play one more year. And then i'm going to do something else but you just progress so quickly for me that it almost it almost surreal. I mean i was playing in high school and then quickly An all american in college. And before i knew it on the olympic team and and and even on the even during that journey it was it was never the sport That everybody looked up to until one day pele. You know. i'm getting ahead of myself but to answer your question you know. Once pele hit the ground it took a whole new trajectory go from high school to college to play soccer and to study and that was at new york university but you graduated from harvard in nineteen seventy-two after playing on that school soccer team. Jimmy speaking how is soccer looked upon was it an ethnic sport more than anything else. It's a good question round and it really is so is answered so differently depending upon where you are. So i did start at nyu and at nyu. It was a totally ethnic. You're listening to heartland newsfeed. Radio network live twenty four seven at heartland newsfeed dot com. This stream is supported by advertisers and contributions by follow on facebook twitter and instagram's here is a look at weather from the heartland newsfeed weather center today. Cloudy and cold with a forty percent chance of snow accumulation between one and three inches high near nineteen tonight. Snowfall continues cloudy and windy with a low of fourteen. There is a thirty percent chance of continued snow thursday. Cloudy windy and cold high near twenty. That's the latest weather. Chacao more news and weather on our website at heartland newsfeed dot com. Hello and thanks for joining us. Here on pastor rick daily hope the audio broadcasts ministry pastor rick warren. We'll today we continue in a series called. When you're hoping for a miracle in these lessons. Rick shows us from god's word how to have great faith and live with more love. Peace patience and self control even when your circumstances appear hopeless now in just a few minutes. We're going to tell you about a dvd steady kit that will inspire and encourage you in your walk with the lord. Called everything is possible with god you can go to pass direct dot com or you can text the word daily two eight hundred six hundred five thousand four to find out more. That's pastor rick dot com or the word daily two eight hundred six hundred five thousand four right. Now here's pastor. Rick with part one of a message called when you feel you're sinking. I want us to look at a miracle. That is actually recorded. Three times in the bible matthew records it mark records and john records. It is the miracle of jesus walking on the water now. Why did did jesus do this. Jesus never did a miracle to show off. In fact nobody saw this miracle except the disciples. It was only for them and he did it intentionally to teach them about how to trust god in tough times in the storm when you feel like you're sinking now the background of the miracle. We're going to look at today. Is this that afternoon. Jesus had done one of the greatest miracles that had spread all all over israel. Everybody knew about this soon. And that was the feeding of five thousand people like fifteen thousand because the bible says that a large crowd gathered to hear jesus and at the end of the day. They were hungry and there were no mcdonald's around and they said anybody got any food and one little boy had brought a lunch five loaves of bread and two fish and it says that there were five thousand men now wherever you got five thousand men you've got at least ten thousand women and children so we really should call it. The feeding of the fifteen thousand. And jesus miraculously breaks the bread and the fish and feeds them and distributes it. And when it's over. The crowd is going berserk. They are crazy to make. Jesus the king of israel. They're not interested in being a spiritual messiah. They want him to overthrow rome. They want to elect him right now. All of a sudden this miracle turns political because somebody's giving them something for their stomach and they want to rise up and revolt against rome. They want to make jesus instantly king and the fame who turns political and jesus knows that didn't come here for political reasons. So i'm out of here. Jesus says i'm gonna head up to the mountain. And i'm gonna pray for a while by myself was a good thing to do after you've had great success in your life. But then he also tells the disciples. I want you to get in the boat. And he immediately sends them up to beth. Seda now this miracle had happened on by the sea of galilee. And beth say is just a little town about two hours up the road up the coastline and so they're not going to have to cross the entire lake they just cover up the edge and they'll be there in a couple of hours. Jesus has gone up to santa. and i'll be there in a little bit. And i'll see there but i'm gonna go pray now. We pick up the story in mark chapter six verse forty five immediately and after this miracle feeding five thousand jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to santa while he dismissed the crowd now after leaving them. He went up alone on a mountainside to pray. When evening came the boat had all the disciples in it was in the middle of the lake now. What in the world's at doing in the middle of lake this is miles. The wrong direction they needed to do is just go. North up the coastline. But jesus is alone on the land and he saw the disciples straining at the oars because the wind was against him. Now this story is told as i said in matthew in mark and in john so we get details through all three and what we discover is a storm came up. Not a little teeny tiny storm. A typhoon assu nami a hurricane gale force storm and their intended direction gets blown off course and they're out in the middle of the lake in the middle of giant sea. Axes what it is and they and they can't get back to shore they've been straining at the oars because the wind was against them now about the fourth watch of the night. That's three to six. Am in the morning. Jesus went out to them walking on the lake. Okay now he was about to pass them by but when they saw him walking on the lake they thought he was a ghost. See people walking by your boat when you're in the middle of a lake at night so they ghost and they cried out because they all saw him and they were terrified now immediately jesus spoke to them and said take courage it is. I don't be afraid we'll come back to that in a minute when you're going through a storm. Then he climbed. Jesus climbed into the boat with them and the wind died down. The bible tells us in other passages. The storm stopped instantly now. They were completely amazed. The disciples by this for they had not understood about the lows. In other words they hadn't learned the lesson of the previous miracle so that we're still not figuring out what he was doing here. Their hearts hardened. Now what's going on here. Jesus intentionally sends the disciples into a storm. He knows it's going to be a storm because he knows everything but he has a lesson of faith. He wants to teach them a lesson. About what do you do when you feel you're sinking. What do you do when you feel you're going under. What do you do when the waves are batting up against you and over you in your boat. What do you do and how do you trust got. We're gonna look at that today but before we do. I wanna give you quickly five signs. When you're thinking you may not realize it when you're thinking you may be thinking financially. You may be thinking relationship you may be thinking emotionally just drained. You feel like i'm going under well. There are five symptoms of that and here the symptoms. You might write these down. I i know thinking. When i can't see my way when i can't see my way i just feel like i'm in the dark in a cloud. I don't have any clarity. I don't have any vision. I'm confused the bible says in john six by now it was dark now. Most of you have never ever been in complete total darkness if you lived in america your entire life. It's pretty doubtful because even if you're out in the desert you can usually see a radio tower light or some farm light. We have electricity everywhere. It's almost impossible to get somewhere where it's totally dark. But two thousand years ago in israel without electricity if you're in the middle of a lake and storm clouds of completely covered all of the moon and all the stars. It's pitch black. You can't see your hand in front of you and one of the first characteristics of going under is. You can't see your way second. I know i'm thinking when i feel i'm on my own when i feel that i'm on my own alone. I'm rowing against the storm. But i'm doing it all by myself and nobody else is helping me. And i don't know where god is. I feel out of touch with god. The bible says in john six. Jesus had not yet joined them now. We always get into trouble when we're way from jesus but jesus actually did this intentionally. He sent them ahead of him to say when you feel like you're on your own you start getting a little frightened number three i. I'm going to be thinking when i feel. I'm out of my comfort zone. When i'm out of my comfort zone when i start to feel a little insecure the bible tells us. The boat was in the middle of the lake. Now when you're in the middle of lake now this is a giant lake tahoe size. It's like caspian sea. it's the skull the sea of galilee. And you're in the middle of a lake that means you're as far away as you can get from shore so they couldn't at there in this storm they can just bail out of the boat and swim ashore there miles out way off course. Maybe you felt like you've been blown off course by a conflict or blown off course by fear of something happening and off course. But they're out in the middle. The bible says they were a long way from shore. There's certainly out of their comfort zone. And they're in the middle of a storm number. Four strong forces are against me. I feel like i'm sinking. When strong forces are against me the bible tells us that they were tossed and battered around by the waves and matthew. John tells us the waves. The waters grew rough. Mark chapter six says. The wind was against them. The word that's actually used here in greek where it says the waters and the waves are rough. Is the word meg us. We get the word mega mega store mega church. It's it means ganic. This is a mega storm. It's not some little spring storm. This was this anomaly. This is a this is hurricane gale-force. Now this was quite common. In the sea of galilee the sea of galilee part of israel and up in the northern part of israel at the north end are the golan heights. You've probably heard this a very disputed territory. the golan heights of syria and lebanon. And that's a very high mountains and cold comes off those mountains that go straight into the sea of galilee the sea of galilee actually about seven hundred feet below sea level. So it's very warm and the water and the weather is warm. When that cold air hits the hot air it often causes major storms so this is not an uncommon thing but it is a scary thing. That's going on here and they're not just having a little storm in their life. They're having a mega storm. Some of you are right now. Going through mega storm. You're out of work or your marriage is strained and you're worried at night and you can't get to sleep things like that the fifth thing. How do i know when i'm sinking. I can't see my way i feel. I'm on my own. I'm out of my comfort zone strong forces against me number five. I'm struggling but i'm failing. I'm doing my best going under. I'm straining i'm struggling. I'm rowing the boat. But i'm not getting back to safety. I'm not getting back to shore. I'm not making any progress. Mark sixers forty eight. Says they were in serious trouble rowing hard and struggling against the winds and the ways i know many of you are feeling this way these days. You're in serious trouble. You've been trying to get out of debt but you're going further in debt. You've been trying to get a job but it's not there you've been trying to make your marriage work you've been trying to find a mate for life you whatever it is something you need in your life is not there or some problem has just won't seem to crack and you're feeling all of these things you're struggling but you're failing. What does god want you to do in that situation more important. What does god do in this situation. Now i don't know what kind of problem you're going through. I don't know what the storms are in your life. I don't know what area of your life you feel. You're sinking. But i do know this when we go through tough problems. We typically think that god has forgotten us. We think that god is not aware that is a million miles away that he's not doing anything about what we're going through. Because if he were. We think we'd be going through smooth sailing. Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is every time you go through a storm. God is doing four things. You need to write these down. We find them illustrated in this story of jesus walking on water every time. You're going through a storm. I jesus prays for me before it happens even before i hit the storm. Jesus prays for me before. I get into it. The bible tells us in matthew chapter fourteen that jesus was up on the mountain praying for his disciples as he sent them out into the storm. Remember he had planned this crisis in advance. And he planned the miracle and he wanted his disciples to grow he actually told them to get in the boat and he sent them into the storm now most of the time in life. We're going through problems pressures difficulties things like that. It's because of our disobedience. It's the number one. Cause when i don't do what god tells me to do. I always get into trouble when i nor what god tells me to do when i ignore what he wants me to do. It causes trouble in my life. Disobedience causes storms but sometimes you do the right thing sometimes. You obey what god tells you to. Do you listen to his voice and it still send you into a storm. Some of the storms in your life doesn't necessarily mean you're sending it may mean you followed what god told you. Jesus told the disciples to get in the boat and head out into the lake knowing that a typhoon was coming. He knew it in advance because he was going to teach them some lessons. They could learn no other way. This is one of the great lessons of job. Jove had done nothing wrong in his life and yet over a period of a couple of days. He lost his entire family. He lost his entire wealth. His wife stayed alive but he lost all of kids. He lost his health. He lost his reputation. He lost his power. All in just a matter of days. Jove had no idea what was going on and now the bible tells us joe had done nothing wrong. In fact god says job was a blameless man. He was a righteous dude. He wasn't big evil. It could mean bad nasty. You know center type person. He was a righteous person. He was a good man. He treated people with dignity and justice and he was kind and yet the worst. That could possibly happen happen to and job says this job. Nine thousand nine verse eight here on the screen. God has blocked my way and plunged my path into darkness. I have no doubt some of you feel that way. God is blocked by way. I wanna get married. But i haven't. I want to have a baby. But i haven't. I need a job. But i haven't got one. I want to go to school. But i can't. I have this dream but nothing. God has blocked my way and i am in darkness. Let me just say this. Some storms that you go through. We're just not gonna understand until we get to heaven so you might as well try to give. God doesn't oh you an explanation for everything that happens in your life. We want you to learn to live by phase. And he's not going to explain everything so you can spend all your time saying why you're not always going to get the answers but you can know this that jesus prays for me before it happens now. Follow me on this. God obviously knows everything. That's going to happen. God is timeless. He knows the past the present and the future all at once he is omniscient. That means he's all knowing so god already knows what's going to happen in your life. This afternoon he knows what's going to happen in your life this next week next month this next year and the next decade and the rest of your life he already knows. That's why you'll never hear god go. Wow i didn't know that you're never gonna hear god's say oops man that one caught me by surprise wow. I never figured she'd do that. No god is never disappointed because disappointment means you didn't expect it to happen. Dot already knows everything that's to happen in your life. The good the bad and the ugly now the good news of this. He can pray about it before it happens to you. You said wait a minute. God praise god talks to himself. Oh you never talk to yourself. You talk to yourself all the time when god talks to yourself. It's prayer himself. It's prayer as a dad. I often talk to myself about my kids. All the time and god talks to himself about you all the time when god talks to himself.

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