20 Episode results for "Bundy"

Ted Bundy

Killer Knowledge

31:41 min | 5 months ago

Ted Bundy

"The Ted Bundy remains one of the most intriguing serial killers in the history of United States during the seventies Bundy kidnapped raped and murdered. Numerous young women using his charm and good looks to lure them into his traps shortly before he was executed. Bundy confessed on tape to committing thirty murders. Although some investigators believed the true number to be much higher. Welcome to kill her knowledge. A podcast original. I'm Carter Roy. And it's time to learn some true crime history as to players go head to head. In this twenty question Trivia podcast every episode we cover a new topic like the headline making Zodiac murders that shocked the nation violent mobsters like John Gotti who gun their way to the top for the mysteries of unsolved cases like the Black Dahlia. This week we're quizzing knowledge about the charismatic killer. Ted Bundy joining me today to test. Their true crime expertise are robbed from Berkeley. Who is in digital sales in jared from San Diego? Who is a copywriter? Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me happy here before we start. Let's remind our listeners. You can play along with more episodes of killer. Knowledge and find other park asked originals on spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. We also want to hear from you. Our listeners lease review wherever you're listening and reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and on twitter at par Cast Network Rob and Jared Leslie out the rules of killer knowledge for you and our podcast listeners. There will be twenty multiple choice questions. A B and C. Broken up into three rounds fair warning the questions. We'll get more difficult as the game. Plays on a correct answer earns you the points for that question and incorrect answer gives the other player the chance to get it right. Rob If you buzz and I will hear this sound. Jared your buzzer. Sounds like this and one player will be eliminated in round two while the other will move on to play for some amazing prizes including the park cast golden headphones. Make sense to you both. Yep sounds good okay. Let's play killer knowledge. Here we go with round one for this first round. The questions will follow a young Ted Bundy as he evolves from a troublesome child into a ruthless killer while Bundy's first confirmed murders didn't take place until he was an adult. There are theories he may have killed. As a child stemming from the disturbing behavior he showed at an early age for Bundy life began in a very complicated way to start. He wasn't even born with the name. Ted Bundy question number one. What was Bundy's given name at birth a Theodore Anthony Nugent be Theodore Robert Cowl? See Theodore Shah Wilson Rob Be Theodore Robert Cal. Correct Bundy's birth name was B. Theodore Robert cowl. He was born in Burlington Vermont in November nineteen forty-six at a home for unwed mothers. His mother twenty two year old. Eleanor Luiz cowl. Went by Louis. The name Bundy would come later from his stepfather. Johnny Bundy who married Louise In nineteen fifty. One Rob One jared zero because of Louise's age and Marital Status Ted was labelled illegitimate. His family chose to hide this fact from the neighborhood so for the first few years of his life. Ted's family claimed his grandparents were his mother and father for question number two. How did Ted's family claim? Luiz was related to head. They said she was a his aunt. Be His cousin. See his sister. Jared see his sister. Ted's family told him that Lewis was see his sister. According to the book the Stranger beside me by an rule. Bundy confirm the truth in one thousand. Nine hundred sixty nine. After locating his original birth certificate the certificate also included the identity of his father. Lloyd Marshall a salesman and Air Force veteran that makes the score one to one ted. Bundy was socially awkward as a kid and sometimes crossed the lines of normal behavior at one point while still very young. He was caught placing knives around his aunt while she slept. And after moving to Tacoma Washington with his mother in nineteen fifty. A teenage bundy would dig through garbage cans looking for discarded pornography question number three. What else did Bundy admit to doing? While a teenager in Tacoma Washington a killing stray animals around the neighborhood be spying on women around the neighborhood. See Setting small fires around the neighborhood. Jarrett a killing stray animals that is incorrect. Rob Be spying on women. The correct answer is B. He would spy on women in the book Ted Bundy conversations with a killer. Bundy admitted he would get drunk and quote canvas the community for draped windows to see whatever he could that makes the score rob to jared one after graduating high school in nineteen sixty. Five in unfocused Bundy was in and out of colleges. He finally enrolled for a second time at the University of Washington in nineteen sixty nine on. That's where he met and fell in love with the school employees. It was a rocky romance that would last for seven years question number four. What was the real name of? Bundy's on again off again girlfriend. A Elizabeth Clever B. Elizabeth Kendall C make Anders Jarryd. Hey Elizabeth Clever Elizabeth clap for is the right answer. Their relationship would even continue into his incarceration in Utah. In nineteen seventy six clever published a book about the relationship under the name Elizabeth Kendall and was referred to as Meg Anders in an rules. Book the Stranger beside me that makes the score to two two from nineteen seventy to nineteen seventy-two bundy state focused worked hard and finally graduated from the University of Washington. Question number five in. What field did Bundy get his bachelor's degree hey psychology be biology see sociology rob see sociology? That is incorrect. Jared a psychology. Yes bundy graduated with distinction with a psychology degree. Then he wanted to attend law school. In September nineteen seventy-three. Bundy began taking night classes at the School of law at the University of puget sound but his law school attendance would be interrupted by his desire to kill. That makes the score. Jared three rob two in early. Nineteen seventy four. Several women went missing and were murdered in the Seattle area as we now know this is when officials claimed Ted Bundy truly became a serial killer question. Number six according to the timeline of his murders. During what years did Bundy operate as a serial killer? A nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy six. B Nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy eight. See Nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty ROB B. Nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy eight. It is be nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy eight but as we mentioned before some theorized. Bundy killed much earlier eight year. Old Ann Marie. Burr disappeared when Bundy was fourteen years old. He always denied any involvement in her disappearance. That makes the score. Three three Bundy's first confirmed murder took place in February nineteen seventy four when he attacked and abducted Linda an healy from her home near the University of Washington. Healy was known in the community forgiving. The Weekday Ski Report on the radio when she didn't show up for work. Her boss informed her roommates and they began to suspect. Something was wrong. Question number seven. What Evidence did detectives fine to suggest foul play a bloody knife? Be Bloody fingerprints. See Bloody Bedsheets Jared see bloody bedsheets? The correct answer is c bloody sheets. Investigators also found blood on. He Leaves Nightgown. The only closed that were missing. Where the one she had been wearing the night before before kidnapping her Bundy had beaten. Healy unconscious then. Put her back in her blue jeans. Light blasts and boots that makes the score four to three in favor of Jared Bundy spent most of nineteen seventy four killing young females in Washington and neighboring Oregon roughly once a month a big part of his. Mo involved alluring victims to his Volkswagen Beetle. Witnesses began filing reports with police. The description of Bundy and his car went public. So question number. Eight according to witnesses. What caller was BUNDY'S VW? Beetle Silver Be Tan. See White Rob. Hey silver that is incorrect. Jared be Tan. Bundy drove a hand Volkswagen Beetle. A multiple witnesses also described an attractive man who used the name Ted and sometimes spoke with a British or Canadian accent. That makes the score. Five to three for jared now in order to get his victims near his car bundy regularly employed the same ruse to fool the unsuspecting victims into helping him question number nine. Which of the following is a trick? He regularly used a he asked for help reading a MAP BE. He claimed his keys. Were stuck in the lock see. He wore his arm in a sling. Rob See war is. The answer is C. Bundy war his arm in a sling till look helpless wants his victim got near the car. He would strike them over the head and forced them into the vehicle. Bundy had removed the passenger seat. Creating space on the floor for his victims to lie out of sight as he drove away. That makes the school. Jared five rob four. When August Nineteen seventy-four ted? Bundy was accepted to the University of UTAH. Law School he moved to Salt Lake City leaving behind his girlfriend. Elizabeth Police Investigations and flyers. That had been distributed all round Seattle with a description of him and his car. The move did not stop him from killing again however not every woman. Bundy tried to kidnap and murder fell victim to his schemes question number. Ten to end round one in November nineteen seventy four which Bundy's victims escaped from his car and later testified against him. A Carol Dhiraj Be Laura. An amy see Melissa. Ann Smith Rob. Be Laurie and amy his incorrect. Jared see Melissa. Ann Smith Matt is also incorrect. The correct is a Carol ranch while all three women were attacked by Bundy to Raunch was the only one who escaped alive. Bundy picked her up outside of the Fashion Place. Mall in Murray. Utah that November. He claimed he was a police officer and had seen someone trying to break into her car. The score remains five to four. In favor of jared now. It wasn't until the following year. August nineteen seventy-five when police arrested Bundy for the first time. After pulling him over and his Volkswagen they found suspicious items including handcuffs rope and a ski mask. This is when the clues of Bundy's crimes would start adding up and Carol ranch would help confirm his identity that brings us to the halfway mark. We've now covered Bundy from youth to kill her. When we come back we'll see robin jared know-how Bundy escaped from prison twice as he continued to murder more innocent women and one of our players will be eliminated from the game. Welcome back you're listening to killer knowledge. I'm Carter Roy. Robin Jared are competing in our Trivia. Podcast to see. Who's the real true crime expert this week? We're looking back at the life and murders of American serial killer Ted Bundy. The score is jared five rob four and before we get into round two. Let's get a little rules. Update the questions are still multiple choice. Abc in the correct answer is worth one point each. However there's a twist in this round called the killer question. That question is worth three points because there are no multiple choice options. You either know the answer or you. Don't you better hope you know it because one player will be eliminated at the end of this round to keep playing? Yep Ready Okay. Here we go with around two other questions in this round will take us up. Until Bundy's final attacks has law enforcement struggled to keep him contained now after several women had been assaulted or killed and Carol Durant Gift Bundy's attempted kidnapping his on again off again girlfriend. Elizabeth Clap for from Seattle began contacting authorities and Salt Lake City to report suspicions that Bundy was the culprit. They soon added him to their list of suspects. At the beginning of nineteen seventy five. Bundy took his criminal ways on the road. Again for question number eleven. What state did bundy travel to where he killed several more women? After leaving. Salt Lake City a Arizona the Colorado See Wyoming rob a Arizona that is incorrect jared be Colorado the Colorado is the right answer. Bundy would also travel to Idaho in. May Nineteen seventy five where? He took the life of one of his youngest victims. Twelve-year-old year old. Lynette dawn culver that makes the score. Six two four jared. Unfortunately the walls closed in on Bundy. Between August and October of nineteen seventy five police found suspicious items and hair from victims in. Bundy's Volkswagen landing him in a police lineup where Carol durant identified him as her attacker. The kidnapping and murder charges against Bundy were set in June. Nineteen seventy seven. He found himself in a courtroom in Aspen. Colorado this is when he made his first escape from custody. Bundy chose to represent himself in the trial so he was excused from wearing handcuffs or leg. Shackles during a recess. Bundy was able to jump out a window and get away so question number twelve. What was Bundy's excuse to get near an open window? He asked to use the Courthouse Library. Be He asked to make a phone call. See he asked to use the restroom. Jared be he asked to make a phone call. That is incorrect rob. Hey he asked to use the courthouse. Library is the correct answer. Bundy jumped out a window in courthouses law library on the second floor where he went to quote research his case. Bundy injured his right ankle on the landing after hiding in the mountainous areas around Aspen for a few days. Sleep-deprived and injured. Bundy got caught after being spotted recklessly driving a stolen car. That makes the score. Jared six rob five in December nineteen seventy seven. Bundy escaped custody for a second time over a six month period. He managed to get a hold of a hacksaw. Blade cut through the ceiling of his jail. Cell and wriggle into a crawlspace but in order to fit into that space he had to lose a lot of weight question number thirteen according to his old defense attorney. About how much weight did Bundy lose? Ten pounds be twenty five pounds. See Fifty pounds. Jared be twenty five pounds. The correct answer is B. Twenty five pounds. According to his former attorney some reports say it could have been as high as thirty five pounds. But either way Bundy starved himself to fit into the space. He then crawled his way. To the chief. Jailer's apartment broken changed into street clothes and simply walked out to his freedom. That makes score. Seven to five in favor of jared and that sound means it's time for the killer question as a reminder. This is not multiple choice. You either know the answer or you don't and this question is worth three points so Boston if you know the answer after escaping for the second time. Bundy was on the run. He made his way to Denver where he hopped a flight to Chicago. He took a train to Ann Arbor Michigan and drove a stolen car to Atlanta from there. He boarded a bus to Florida so question number fourteen. The killer question worth three points. What Florida City did Ted Bundy travel to in January Nineteen Seventy Five Rob Tallahassee Tallahassee? Florida is the correct answer. Bundy chose Tallahassee as his destination on a whim more or less he wanted to be near water and had traveled to Florida once before in nineteen sixty eight for the Republican National Convention. By getting the killer question rob has taken the lead. Eight two seven now a nationwide. Manhunt began for Bundy who continued to feed his hunger for murder. While on the run in the early morning hours of January fifteenth nineteen seventy-eight. He broke into a sorority house at Florida. State University brutally killing two female students and left two others with serious injuries. Question Number Fifteen. At which Sorority House did Bundy? Carry Out these attacks. A kappa sigma be they apply. See Chi Omega. Jared be data that is incorrect. Rob See Chi Omega. See Cayo Mega is the right answer. That makes the score. Rob Nine jared seven. According to an rules book the stranger beside me Bundy carried out the attacks on all four women in under fifteen minutes but he didn't stop there the same night as Ko Mega Bundy carried out a similar attack at an apartment building near the Sorority House. Luckily FSU Students Cheryl. Thomas survived that attack. Then on February Ninth Bundy killed for the last time when he took the life of twelve year. Old Kimberly Diane Leach. The FBI finally added Bundy to. It's ten most wanted fugitives list. Question Number Sixteen on what date was Ted. Bundy placed on the FBI's most wanted list a February tenth. Nineteen seventy eight. B February Fifteenth Nineteen Seventy Eight C February twentieth. Nineteen seventy-eight jared a February tenth nineteen seventy eight February tenth nineteen. Seventy eight is the correct answer the very next day after he had killed young Kimberly Leach. At the time. Bundy was wanted for murder in six states. Shockingly it only took three days after being added to the FBI list. That bundy was back in custody. Question number seventeen to end this round. How was Bundy captured for the final time a driving a stolen Volkswagen beetle be running from the scene of an attack see? He turned himself in. Jared a driving a stolen. Vw Beetle. The correct answer is a. He was driving a stolen. Beat up you beetle. Around one thirty am on February fifteenth. An officer pulled him over after running the license plates and discovered the car was stolen at first. Bundy resisted arrest fighting off the officer but he was finally taken into custody for the final question of round. Two has left us with a tie. Nine to nine which means we're throwing in one more question to determine who moves on to round three and who will be saying Goodbye Ted. Bundy's life story typically involves many mentions of Elizabeth Club for but while in Prison Bundy married and a child with another woman. Rob And jared your tiebreaker question. What is the name of Ted Bundy's wife and mother of his child a Carolina Ford Be Caroline Boom Rob? Be Carolyn Boon. The correct answer is B. Carol and Boone Bundy famously proposed boone in nineteen eighty during one of his trials while questioning her about their relationship. The end with that question. We've come to the end around two with a tiebreaker question. That makes the score. Rob Ten jared nine on. Fortunately that means we have to say goodbye to jared. You've got so much knowledge to the show. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me now. We're GONNA take a short break and come back with the last three questions of the show with Bundy back in prison. The killer finally talks before his ultimate punishment is carried out. How much does rob know about? Bundy's last days and will it be enough to win the coveted par cast golden headphones. Find out in round three. Welcome back to killer knowledge. I'm Corduroy. We've been quizzing Robin Jared about the sly and dangerous serial killer Ted Bundy now. Jared was eliminated from the game after scoring nine points. In the first two rounds Rob score ten so only he will be answering the questions in round three for chance to win some amazing prizes. Now this time points. Don't matter glut right answers. Do here are the rules. There are three multiple choice questions each with two answer options a or B. So you'll have a fifty fifty shot. Each correct answer is worth an amazing prize. Get One answer right. And you'll get spotify premium account free for one year if you get two questions right you in a role in an episode of the podcast original solve murders hosted by me. And if you get all three questions right in this round you win. The coveted par cast golden headphones and the chance to come back for one of our best of shows to compete against other killer. Knowledge Champions Rob. Are you ready ready? Okay here we go with around three while in prison. Waiting for his appeals in court bundy began talking to FBI. Special Agent William Hague Meyer of the Behavioral Analysis Unit. He told Haig Meyer. That murder was not just a crime of lust or violence to him question number eighteen. What did Bundy say? Murder was about a possession. Be Obsession be obsession. That is incorrect. Bundy said that murder became about a possession. He claimed that after he killed someone they were forever. One and the place where he left the bodies and often revisited were sacred ground. Unfortunately robbed that means you will not be winning the podcast. Golden headphones. But you can still win a year free of spotify premium and roll on the podcast original unsolved murders with all of Bundy's known victims being young white women. It's no surprise his girlfriend. Elizabeth Clever would wonder how she wasn't one of them. She got her answer during late night. Phone call with Bundy while he was in prison according to her book. The Phantom Prince my life with Ted Bundy Bundy admitted that he once had the impulse to kill her question number. Nineteen how did Bundy's say he tried to kill? Elizabeth CLAP FOR A. He set her apartment on fire while she slept be. He closed the chimney so she choke on smoke from the fireplace. A he said her apartment on fire while she slept. I'm afraid that is incorrect. The correct answer is B. He closed chimney so she'd choke on smoke. He told Club for he had also put a towel in the door crack so the smoke would stay in the apartment while you haven't won. The park has golden headphones or the role and unsolved murders. But you can still win. Spotify premium free for a year after several appeals stays of executions and changes of dates. Ted Bundy was scheduled to be put to death on January. Twenty Fourth Nineteen eighty-nine question number. Twenty the last question of this episode. What did Ted Bundy request as his final meal? A steak and eggs be nothing. Be Nothing the correct answer is be. Nothing thing was served steak and eggs but he did not request it. Bundy declined a special meal. So given the traditional last meal steak cooked medium rare eggs over easy hashbrowns toast with butter and jelly milk and juice. Ted Bundy then died in the electric chair at Florida. State prison. His body was cremated and his ashes scattered at an undisclosed location in the state of Washington. Congratulations rob you. Want a year of spotify premium free. Thank you and thank both you and jared for being here now. There have been many theories about what was wrong. With Ted Bundy. The underwent many psychiatric examinations with medical professionals and behavioral specialists. Bipolar disorder dissociated is entity disorder. Sociopath psychopath have all been thrown out there to describe him but whatever. The true dysfunction was within Bundy. One thing was missing guilt. Bundy once said guilt is in his words a mechanism. We use to control people. It's an illusion. It's a kind of social control mechanism and it's very unhealthy. It does terrible things to the body undecided. I don't feel guilty for anything. I feel. Sorry for people who feel guilt to everyone listening. Thank you for playing killer. Knowledge with US L. Let us know what you thought about. Today's episode by leaving a review wherever you're listening and by reaching out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast in twitter at PODCAST NETWORK. You can also listen to more episodes of killer. Knowledge and other power cast originals on spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Killer knowledge was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler produced by Kristen Osservato key to MIRA and Jonathan ratliff sound designed by Paul. Leave Iskin Killer Knowledge Stars Carter Roy. Come back next week to hear who will become the next. True crime extract.

Ted Bundy Bundy Ted Bundy Robin Jared Bundy C. Bundy murder Rob Ten Ted Rob spotify Carter Roy Seattle Salt Lake City Theodore Shah Wilson Rob United States Jared Leslie kidnapping facebook twitter
Ted Bundy

American Hysteria

13:35 min | 1 year ago

Ted Bundy

"This is American Eric History as aftershock where I share with you a story that didn't make it into the main episode. I'm your host Chelsea Ever Smith and today we're talking about Ted Bundy I recently watched Netflix extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile which as many of us know is about America's past and apparently current sweetheart allegedly handsome serial killer Ted Bundy as played lead by former teen haughty turned quasi Alastair Zach Ephron Ephron is considered one of the sexiest man alive and it's true that he looks a lot like Bundy especially in profile although suspiciously missing the trademark Yuna brow his boyish smile helps you forget that this is a man who's committed unspeakable violence and that's because ephrons a good actor and he does a good job joking his way into a lovable bundy one seen through the adoring is of Elizabeth Kendall handle his former girlfriend and author of the book the film is based on he's charismatic in-command causing women and men all around him to bend to his Manic charm. His crimes are highlighted in the movie sure but with the current of denial running through that's not the Ted. I know it's a romantic film but not necessarily in a way that's morally transgressive but cutesy nonetheless and then there it is right there on screen the sculpted asks of Ted Bundy who may as well be named People Magazine's sexiest murderer alive. Can we be honest here Ted Bundy isn't that good looking. He's not an otherworldly God of a beauty so transcendent as to mute the screaming volume of his crimes honestly to me. He's always kind of resembled a Jim Henson Iteration of George W Bush we know that he was charming which is part of why he was able to abduct rape torture and murder undetermined termine number of young women potentially ranging upwards of thirty but in terms of appearance. He's actually kind of ordinary of course his life. In the horrific murders he committed where anything but ordinary and maybe that's why people are so surprised is in embarrassed to admit that they think he's attractive but the fact that Bundy had these likable features at all was surprising confusing paradox that reinforced the reality that serial killers can seem just like everybody else. This nineteen seventies rockstar bio bio pic of a man we can all agree should be deeply reviled isn't a new or shocking concept in America but just the newest installment of the glamorization of our trauma by humanizing this killer and having him played by someone like Zach Ephron the whole thing becomes a little more palatable but what does it mean that these bogeymen for which we carry pepper spray check our back seats in deadbolt our doors have also become our sex symbols in household names extremely wicked shockingly evil in file focuses on the story of Elizabeth Kendall but also on Carol. And Boone a woman who fell in love with Bundy while he was in prison awaiting trial for abduction and murder Bundy actually proposed to and married Caroline Boone while in the middle of her testimony we've all heard the stories of Jailhouse Romance. There's even a psychiatric term for it her Bristol Delia Fetishism of a partner known to have committed misdeed or crime as horrified as we are by these women. The truth is that our entire culture seems obsessed with these psychopaths myself included women who marry Mary serial killers. They're just like us. It's true that we here in America are especially prolific in our serial killer numbers. Since the beginning of the twentieth century. The United States has been homed over twenty six hundred of them in that that same timeframe the country with the second largest serial murderer output was the U._k.. With a grand total of one hundred forty two so it might be accurate to say that serial killers are as American as apple pie but that doesn't fully explain our unending fascination like much of what we talk about on American hysteria the media both news in the entertainment. We've already talked about have played a huge role in constructing our idea of serial killers from the very beginning the advent of the American serial killer began with H H homes the Chicago Chicago Torture Castle proprietor convicted of nine brutal murders in eighteen ninety six since then journalists have used terms like genius and monster sensationalize in separate these ghoulish figures in our public consciousness removing in someone's humanity in this case can make them into unknowable super villains but it can also help remove their flaws to make them cartoons of themselves characters that we can project any qualities we want onto in the immortal words of David Byrne Psycho Killer Keskar say I was born with a double in me. H H home said while confessing I could not help the fact that I was a murderer. No more than a poet can help the inspiration to sing. He was paid seventy five hundred dollars which is two hundred twenty six thousand dollars today by none other than Yellow Journalism Mogul William Randolph hearst and it was printed in his very popular newspapers like Bundy prior to his conviction. Shen homes was an ambitious and well liked every man a real charmer and this can partially explain why during the media circus they were able to steer the clown cars of their own narratives. Bundy's were some of the first televised revised murder trials and the feeding frenzy of publicity surrounding them gave Ted the unprecedented platform to become the celebrity that he now is he walked around unshackled and unsupervised and was granted his request to run his own defense offense young women gathered outside the courthouse swooning over his arrogant charm and they unfortunately we're not the only ones presiding judge Edward Court after months of flirtatious chastising used these saccharin words to administer Bundy's third death sentence for years of murder torture and terror he had afflicted upon the country so thank you. Tragedy for this to see such total waste humanity that I've experienced in this courtyard bright young man you may a lawyer loved ahead you practice in front of one another way or more more after this one of our favorite sponsors is back. That's right daily harvest and I'm here to tell you what I love about this great subscription service the warm weather's here in the last thing I want to do in the entire entire world is be trapped inside over a hot stove. I don't Cook Anyway so it would be outrageous. I need to be kicking it at the beach. I need to be kicking it at the park but I'm not kicking it any of those places. I'm staying inside and making the show for you every single day but anyway way I need the option to just eat and go daily. Harvest delivers thoughtfully sourced chef crafted food. That's built on fruit and vegetables and can be prepared in less than five minutes. Everything just stays fresh in your freezer until you're ready to eat it. Each daily harvest. Davis Cup just takes one step to prepare all you have to do is add your favorite milk to a smoothie and blend or heat up harvest bowl and you're ready to go so go to daily Dash Harvest Dot Com and enter Promo Code American to get three cups in your first box six. That's Promo Code American for three Free Daily Harvest Cups at Daily Dash Harvest Dot Com. It's been three hole decades since Bundy was executed by electric chair and yet his presence in American pop culture. There has never even come close to leaving our minds in addition to net flicks releasing extremely wicked they also released conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes both produced in directed by true crime veteran Joe Berlinger who you can hear an interview with on my previous podcast broadcasts behind true crime the Internet has lit up with so called thirst memes and tweets calling a literal psychopath. Daddy netflix thankfully was not having it and in response to the Bundy craze their official U._S.. Twitter posted. I've I've seen a Lotta talk about Ted. Bundy's alleged hotness and I would like to gently remind everyone there are literally thousands of hot men on the service almost all of whom are not convicted serial murderers. The archetype of the American serial killer is one where reality in Hollywood intersect with almost equal public interest it was only five months after the Oscar winning silence of the lambs was released in Nineteen ninety-one that a real life serial killer with cannibalistic tendencies was caught Jeffrey Dahmer years later the the two of blurred together and some people confuse the actions of real life Dahmer with those of the Fictional Hannibal Lecter another former teen haughty play Jeffrey Dahmer Ross Lynch who wants start on the Disney Channel Original Series Austin and Allie one author author who studies women who loves serial killers discover that of her sample interviews nearly all the women had had early abusive relationships with men with this mind the author posits that marrying a prisoner means that these women can exercise a kind of control they were unable to when they were being abused they decide when these men get to see them. They decide to respond to desperate letters or not and they decide to put money into their commissary. The relationship also gets to remain in a fantasy one where. Letters and poems and drawings and expressions of love or doled out by the extreme boredom of prison one that with all its apparent danger is actually safer than one. Maybe in the real world because this time the man is already behind bars more after this you might have heard me talk about the great podcast case closed on the last episode but I thought I talk about it again. Since this episode is literally about crime this new true crime podcast looks at a new murder each season from crime all the way to conviction every crime covered on case closed his actually already been solved so you aren't left wondering who really did it and you actually get to find out what happened to them. This season follows the story of Rusty Schneiderman. A carrying Atlanta father who was killed in twenty ten rusty was dropping his son off at preschool early one morning and as he was walking back to his car a minivan pulled up next to him before rusty could react the driver shot him four times in the chest but rusty had no known enemies so who would want him dead you'll hear all about rusty his loving marriage and the two million dollar life insurance policy in his name and you'll hear who pulled the trigger. It's an intriguing suspenseful. Well listen that you will not be able to turn off and you won't have to you can binge the entire season of case closed now. Wherever you get your podcasts that's case closed subscribe now despite our parent veracious nece for them serial murders are still incredibly rare and have actually been on the decline for the last thirty years or so but we still desperately WanNa know what possibly we lead someone to committing such horrible acts? What was their childhood like where their signs could it have been predicted or even prevented? Sometimes it feels to me like we WANNA retroactively save these men from themselves wondering if somewhere deep inside them as a pure and frightened child fairy tales tell us very young that women can love bad men into goodness in fact it seems to be a responsibility the way beauty touched the enormous face the beast saw him a sparkle of humanity and gave him the ability to bloom but that's just a Disney movie and Zach Ephron Ross Lynch or just Disney boys grown into Disney men and in this way maybe our culture sure teaches us this heuristic feely ah I know I was programmed in a sense to try to save those beyond saving to save intern all those that would suffer terribly for my not doing so and in the end likely to save save myself from Skylark. This was American hysteria aftershock next week on the show. We're covering the idea of the monstrous and monsters of American culture. The aftershock is ridden produced in hosted did buy me Chelsea Weber Smith assistant produced by Derrick Smith research assisted by Riley Smith produced an edited by clear Comma Studios and recorded at dens more studios in Seattle and finally a huge. Thank you to Miranda Zickler for for all of her crucial help on this episode. Make sure you check out her amazing band co Inca. That's K. U.. I. N. K. A. On spotify. It's the only band I listened now. I hope you have a great week and try your best not to fall in love with a serial killer.

Ted Bundy Alastair Zach Ephron Ephron murder America Elizabeth Kendall Netflix Disney People Magazine Chelsea Ever Smith Yuna Jim Henson United States William Randolph hearst Chicago Chicago Torture Castle Rusty Schneiderman Twitter George W Bush partner Caroline Boone spotify
Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes

You Can't Make This Up

29:11 min | 1 year ago

Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes

"Welcome to you can't make this up a companion podcast from net. Flicks. I rave oughta and I'm hosting this week episode here, and you can't make this up. We go behind the scenes of Netflix original true crime stories. It's special guests this week. We're getting into the Ted Bundy tapes this four part docu series follows the crimes of one of America's most notorious killers Ted Bundy from nine hundred seventy four to nineteen seventy eight Bundy committed a multitude of crimes including murdering over thirty women in seven states. The series is based on the book of the same name written by journalist and author Steven show Steven record over one hundred hours of his interviews with Ted Bundy which series features heavily but previously you could read transcripts of the interviews and Stevens book. This is the first time we're able to hear them and listen to ten Bundy in his own words, we brought in journalists Taylor Crompton who has written about Ted Bundy eighteen vote and cover social Justice in publications like paper, MAG and glamour. So let's get to that interview them. Stephen. Thank you so much for talking to me this morning. How are you? I'm just fine. We're getting ready to get frozen to death here. But right now disgraced that's terrible. So for listeners who don't know you could you briefly explain your connection to the docu series? I'm Stephen Michaud and back in the early nineteen eighties. I conducted a series of journalistic interviews with Ted Bundy at the Florida state prison over a period of about six months, and those conversations became the basis of the docu series conversations with a killer. There are tapes as well that my partner Hugh Ainsworth recorded with Bundy in the same period of time. And I know at someone who has watched this theory's, I'm he spoke about how you recorded over one hundred hours of tape with him, and you were very personal y'all had similar shared lived experiences of growing up in Vermont and Seattle area. So could you kind of speak about how it was. Was even being in that room with him consistently. Well, these these interviews were done for the most part in a small office right in the center of the prison at windows on three sides and Ted, and I would sit together at a table of two chairs in an ashtray. It's it was very claustrophobic. And it was also there lots of things to to make your nervous and Mike case I had misrepresented myself when I went into the prison. I said that I was an investigator for the for the appeals attorneys and that wasn't true. I I had a private investigators license, but I just knew that if I said, I was a journalist they weren't going to let me walk in and out of the prison for six months to interview their most famous serial killer. So all the way through that. The back of my head was gotta they listening to this. And at what point are they going to come in? And. Grabbed me by the SCRUFF of my neck and Marsh me out where March me into my own my own cell. So that was that was one level of nervousness. There was also the the constant stress of basically sparring with a sociopath. I didn't know what a sociopath was when I first went in there. I mean, I think I probably could have told you that it's a person who likes any remorse for anything that they've ever done, and they can't feel any guilt never having consciously encountered associated path. I didn't know how their minds worked. I got a lesson. I got I got really schooled by the time. I was three with Ted. And then there was on top of that the problem that Ted was claiming still at that time that he was totally innocent, which was patently untrue. So I had to figure out a way to coax him into talking about what I wanted to discuss. With him that is the murders. And that required in the end just taken taken a guess that the way into Ted's head was to treat him, basically, like a twelve year old because in a lot of ways that's all that he was he he was a case of arrested development. And I said to Ted, you know, more about these cases all of these cases all over the country than than anybody. Tell me from your expert point of view what led to these killings. What motivated the the person to do them? What went on inside his head whips at the objective? Why were these women killed in anything else? You can add to help me understand this this person and Ted grab the tape. Recorder out of my hand, kind of cruel himself around it and lit a cigarette and off we went and. For the next six months. Most of it was Ted conducting a monologue with me prompting him from time to time, and lighten is cigarettes and changing the tapes, I've noticed that in the Passover years, there's been this bike and content. Regarding truecar him the movie that's coming out. Starring Jack Ephron. There's new documentaries coming out every day about serial killers and kind of like this history. So how do you feel about the uprising this current phenomenon? Well, in some ways, I guess is just a new generation discovering. These guys me the the original interest in serial killers came in the nineteen seventies. The turn wasn't even known when when I first met Ted, nobody had ever used the term serial killer. But he and a lot of other guys just sorta seemed to come out of the woodwork at the same time. There were maybe ten or fifteen of them that everybody knew their names there. Kind of a select circle of Aborignes offenders. I think that people who didn't live through all of that are are sort of newly aware of what went on. And what is probably still going on? I think you know, instead of driving around the way Ted did and other guys did I think most of them are probably operated on the internet. I've been thinking a lot about Ted Bundy in the kind of context of this new generation that you spoke enough when we're in the areas of knee to and awareness around sexual assault in violence for folks with marginal nights identity, and especially and Ted's case I was curious about how much of his kind of anonymous being able to walk into a crowd and not be seen as tight a lot to his white male privilege in his identity because several times throughout the documentary series. We kind of witness this very positive treatment of Ted by law enforcement officials and even in the Florida trial. You know at the end of it the. Judge kind of compliments him for his actions in the courtroom for defending himself. Even making a statement that I wish you were a lawyer. So you could practice in front of me. So I saw several times throughout the series a lot of this confusion because Ted in my opinion, kind of weaponized his white male identity to hide in plain sight. And I was curious if you kind of saw any of that in your reporting, or maybe thinking of it now as we talking about, you know, these intersectional social Justice movements. If you think that Ted's whiteness had anything to play in his anonymous factor. Those are all good points by cautiousness was not nearly a raised enough back in nineteen eighty to think of this in in those terms, but there's truth in what you say Tibbs whiteness and his blandness worked very much in his favor as a sociopath. He. He worked very hard at making himself appear friendly appear. No, kind of concerned mild one of the things that was important in his story in understanding Ted was the number of people who knew him who were absolutely persuaded. He could not have done any of these crimes, but to help put a little more focus on your points. Not only was he a white male. But he was a Republican and a an a four square Republican. And you could go further his victims were all white women. I don't think he I don't think he attacked a single woman of color, most serial killers tend to have a kind of profile victim, and in many of them focused, for instance, on prostitutes, some of them focus on old people Ted took what he liked to think of his high value targets. These were. For the most part college coeds attractive, young women all white all going to large respectable institutions and to give you you know, to give you something more to think about part of what he was doing was getting his revenge because he felt that he had been passed over his anger was so rooted in his whiteness, and if we look at whiteness, it's this kind of power structure and dynamic a very much ownership in control, which even as kind of reminiscent of how he committed acts of sexual assaults against his victims. And I was thinking about on the context of a lot of sexual assault movements. Whether it be metoo, whether it be Harvey Weinstein, whether it be some other chargers, always kind of like this feeling of ownership in control. Like, this is mine I can exact control upon it. And I saw that a lot throughout the series with Ted and how has relation. With women or those who had denied his female always came from this aggressive defiant standpoint. Well, yes, again, Ted notably said to me one time that the the object of with this person was doing was possession. The word was position at and he said as you might possess a potted plant or a painting or a Porsche, but objectification taken to a malignant level. I think that those that his victims were in some ways completely abstract to him. It was important. I know not to have conversations with them. He said that he would you know, he he would only talk to them enough to get them in a compromise position where he could immobilize them or kill them. You know, he did not chat with him over a long period of time. And he said that there was always a problem if he did that they. They would start emerging as a as a human is a real person and screw up his fantasy. I find it troubling to talk to other men of of any age and the conversations tend to run towards wonderment about. Wow. How did he do that one of the things that we tried to do in the books, and I think again that the series also does is point out that Ted was a coward? There was nothing difficult about what he did. And and he, and I spoke about this a great deal that in those days, you probably could get away with kidnapping and killing young women much easier than you could stealing stuff from a supermarket. And I know it sounds bizarre. But I think it's functionally true that serial murderer is actually one of the simpler crimes to get away with and one that that to a certain. One set of men and serial killers are overwhelmingly males the rewards the potential rewards in very value system are wonderful. You get to possess what you wanna possess a dead woman. Being richer subserving Waffen to May US in Russian US. Guy through playboy right on to daily news. But I think Ted, you know, he spoke a lot about wanting to be attorney in wanting to be political activists and wanting to kind of guard our this center in a fame, and it seemed like almost as if he was entitled to be the center of attention. He always wanted to be in charge of his narrative in story. Whether that was I with you, and he kind of just wanted to speak about his childhood and not pay attention to the murders that he committed or whatever he was arrested trying to talk to the presser as far as being co-counsel when he had no law degree. He always tried to place themselves in the center and for me. I think it's because all the values that he grew up with told him that he could be the center of attention as a white male. There's something there's something else that you have to bear in mind with him is he is typical of these guys. Was a narcissist. And he was paranoid and those those two personality flaws or personality disorders interplay very closely across his life, for example, when Ted was in court, the paranoia reveals itself and his distrust for his attorneys that he thought they were plotting against him and the narcissism drove him to make a spectacle of himself. So he's you know, I'm not arguing with with any of your insights. But I sometimes think of Ted as this big ball of energy malignant energy being guided by these you know, what they say in meteorology the steering winds of of his other para Phileas of an and of his his other personality disorders against. Again, I'm being really circuitous here. But I think that the Ted I know the Ted was not particularly self-aware when we started talking about him in the third person. He had really no clue. I mean, I really honestly believe this. He had no clue as to how it happened that. He started doing what he started to do. He told me details. How it grew? I mean, the stages of it and all the rest of it. I remember him saying to me one time he faulted what he became he faulted society, and what he faulted society for was giving people such as him too, many choices and his way of illustrating that was to say that perhaps if this individual as he often referred to himself was raised in a really highly restrictive hierarchical society that all of this evil plasma inside of him would have expressed himself in. Eamon stamp collecting this this this then gets us back to the fascination with Ted is that he was brilliant at exploiting the structure of society. I guess is a way to say the the the presuppositions the kind of undigested assumptions about how things are so. Yeah, I think I think all all of what you say is is true. I was thinking about how you brought up how Ted represented himself. I'm during the trial, and it was very similar to me to how the Charlotte in shooter Dylann roof author represented himself during the trial. And if you look at their case, I'm even Dylan's legal team attempted to utilize the competency tests to kind of make sure that he didn't have this graphs of the responsibility on his actions. And if even if you look at his case, it's so similar to Ted how he proclaimed that he was in. Innocent how he represented himself. And then if we want to get very eerily how the police department treated Dylann roof in a similar manner to how Ted Bundy was treated. I mean there was meals given to him. There was like this very kind of assumptions of like, he's a good guy. It's all good even though both of them had committed. He's very violent acts. So if we're kind of looking like, this archetype at Ted Bundy has laid down it has really kind of like, but it into these other white male seal your killers who were utilizing the same kind of foundation that he built decades before that we're still seeing now filter tells me that what I'm hearing is that these societal structures are still very much in place, and they still encourage the development of the of the kind of behavior that we saw with Ted. Maybe maybe not so artful as Ted was. And maybe that you know, that as we, you know, we learn more about these. Guys. Maybe the law enforcement officials are further up the learning curve. I I mean, I I'll give you an example when Bundy Flynn Bundy, I became active in the early nineteen seventies. There was a lot of pushback from veteran. Detectives who said, you know, we know who kills people, you know, who people kill people that they know and they kill them. And if not the kill them for a really obvious reason anger money to you know, to hide hide their identity, and these either blood or familial connections, or the obvious motive is what you have to follow when you're trying to solve the crime and Ted came along and and showed the world. No, no, no. No known fact, that's the last thing that I would I would do. I mean, I killed strangers and killed them for reason. And so there was an institutional Rupe? Think that prevented the cops from even considering a guy like Ted because he he he he didn't meet any of their expectations, and they and they refused to even look at it. So that that was a huge advantage for him. And it was true in every jurisdiction that the problem in stopping him had a lot to do with the fact that no-one no-one could feature somebody just going around killing people because he wanted to kill them. There was no rational motive for anything that he did. He was an aborate killer. It was it was outside of their Ken and really was outside there can and can't had set a knowledge on half leaf departments. Where it kinda in the cities at talked about how he had an internship or some type of position. Within the Seattle police department and kind of figured out how these departments worked in silos never been in communication with each other. And it seems that innocence he may have had a fondness for law enforcement because even when the escaped survivor when in identified him, he changes appearance to match the law enforcement officers because he knew that he could easily blend in into assimilate. So I always thought into his during the series that he knew whenever he was in trouble or was going to get caught to assimilate into this kind of position of power improve lidge in which he could hype it walk through a wall. Will let me give you some other little tidbits that that are consistent with that. Ted used various guises when he was prowling stocking for victims one of them was the victim himself. He would he had worked as a driver for a. A medical supply company and boosted stuff like plaster of Paris, and slings and all this medical gear from the company, and then he would he would get himself up with a limp and with a sling, and maybe a maybe some kind of thing on his hand or whatever. And then go kind of hobbling down a street usually at night usually around campus with his books or his is whatever his his briefcase knowing that young woman, if they saw him in extremis would probably come along and say can I carry your books for you? Can I do this do that? And of course, he would lead them to his car where he would hit them over the head and off he went that was one another one was thirty figure the one girl that we know that escaped him said that he had approached her as a rent a cop at a mall telling her that somebody had broken. Into her car, and she had to come out and identify it another time he posed as a fireman in the afternoon for to a teenage girl who said that something had something to do with it were car was or something like that. So you right. He understood how how these relationships work and exploited that he did have some instincts. That's just a a pure animal predator. But I think that you know, that must have grown out of something e he either intuited or or worked very hard to to understand. And I think I would tend towards the latter because I remember talking to him about his work in in that study in in Seattle in it it had to do with recidivism rates, and that sort of thing, but what he did is he he he looked at a whole bunch of rap sheets from all these jurisdictions in the north. West and he figured out that, you know, a guy would get arrested for something and his name we go on a rap sheet. And but you could not figure out from the rat sheet. Whatever happened to it. Did he get convicted? Did he you know, what these they were always were incomplete. And so you the record keeping was subpar, and then the communication among these police departments was also non existent. So it dedicated predator such as Bundy with this maybe pre conscious, but nevertheless, real anger in him would go to work to take advantage of those exact things that he was that. He was studying he read detective magazines. He was a great fan of them studying them for what kind of criminal advantage. He could get from him. So he was a very active student of his psychopathology and since you've been contributing so much the Netflix documentary. Theories. And is there anything that you felt this series? Did it include or kind of profile in a right way? I'm very happy with the series. I was very eager to work with Joe Berlinger because mired his material we shared a determination to make this as honest and straightforward a series as possible and the idea which I think we achieved was to get into Ted's head. And I think that is the major contribution that this series is going to make and I'm curious since you are at journalist who has been reporting on true crimes for several decades about what areas you're focusing on now into any nineteen. Well, I'm sort of a reluctant serial killer criminal reporter, I when I finished the Ted book. I thought I was going to go back to work and be a magazine journalist, and I couldn't get anybody to hire me. So I sort of became a book writer with a specialty in crime. Because of market forces head, you know, ahead to eat, and I do do other things. It's not it's it's not a, you know, it's not my exclusive interests. So I've I've got some stories that are more conventional more people with with real motives, greed anger, more of a sort of main mainstream good old American killing, but they tend to be more multi level than than, you know, fallen around one serial killer. That's these are, you know, there's a lot of participants in the in the in the plot or whatever the story is that makes them complex and interesting to me. Well, Stephen, I wanna thank you so much for taking time out of your day to talk to me. I enjoyed it. Enjoyed it. A I think you taught me some things or or you encourage me to think in in different ways. And so I I owe you a thank you for that. It's I believe there's a lot of substance to your analysis, and it would probably help for a lot of people. In thirty to learn how to think that way, or at least be open to that possibility because the -bility to think to use the cliche outside the box was one of the major reasons they had trouble catching Ted, right man, anytime, it was a pleasure talking to you. That was Taylor and Stephen and now let's hear from you. It's time for a dramatic reading of your most dramatic social media reactions. This tweet is from at Susie Meister, Ted Bundy is evidence that a white guy can be mediocre in every way and a psychopath and people still think he's exceptional. This tweet is from director at your bright finished conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes, though, I was pretty familiar with the story. I still found this confounding compelling case study that made me to family sad and chilled to the bone. I don't know how numb you have to be to not be affected by it. Here's a grad that Billy gentlemen started. As we all binge the Bundy tapes on net flicks. And share the trailer for the Zach Ephron movie. Please remember the victims these women all had hopes and dreams they should all have movies made about them. I always try to remember what these monsters took away pass tag, Ted Bundy tapes, the rest of the thread memorialize is each victim. If you want to share your thoughts on any upcoming episode, make sure to find us on social media, just search for you can't make this up Netflix. We're the ones with the shiny blue checkmark. Before we let you go. We've got one more treat for you. It's time for what you're watching. It's where we find out what the people on this episode or watching on Netflix. I have just finished watching Bruma twice. And it just knocked my socks off what a wonderful movie. I I saw all these huge ads in in the New York Times. And I said, I gotta go see that thing. And then I said now it's net flicks. That you know, it was wonderful great. That's that's that's my latest thrill. I've been watching sex education on net flicks. Which I really think is this beautiful theory that allows generation v to honestly talk about their sex lives and their reproductive health. So I know for me, it's kind of like the last age of the millennials I wished that I grew up with accessible content in which people like me were talking about their sex lives in a healthy positive fashion instead of relying on the internet or urban legends or miss. So I think it's been a really beautiful and accessible content into which youth. Now who are so multi-faceted and have different intersection identities are able to watch something like that. In it relates complete need to their lived experience as someone who is growing and interior sexuality and gender identity. So I think it's a really beautiful content. And that's it for this week's episode. We'll be back next month with a new true crime series for you to add to your watchlist. You can find this show on apple podcasts, Stitcher, Google play Spotify and wherever else you get your podcasts. Make sure to subscribe rate and review the show helps other people find it also makes us feel all warm and fuzzy inside you can't make this up as a production of pineapple street media, and Netflix are music is by Hans sale SU I'm revolted and thank you for listening.

Ted Bundy Bundy Flynn Bundy Netflix Seattle Ted Stephen Michaud assault Florida Taylor Crompton Bundy Mike New York Times Vermont partner Harvey Weinstein
January 24, 2020: Ted Bundy Executed

Today in True Crime

12:32 min | 7 months ago

January 24, 2020: Ted Bundy Executed

"Today is Friday January twenty fourth twenty twenty on this day in nineteen eighty nine serial killer and rapist. Ted Bundy was executed via electric chair in a Florida penitentiary. You're welcome to today and true. Crime apart. CAST original. Do the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today we're covering the execution of forty two year old Theodore Ted the Bundy the serial murderer responsible for the rapes assaults and debts of numerous young women during the nineteen seventies. Let's go back to Florida. Florida State Prison on January twenty fourth nineteen eighty nine early in the morning. The Sun wasn't even up yet in northeast Florida. When did finally rise forty two year old? Ted Bundy wouldn't be Out side or alive to see it. He'd been waiting on death row for almost ten years. The smell of eggs and and buttered toast entered his spartan sell a little before five. Am Bundy's stared at the plate but didn't move to touch it. Maybe he knew that the night before just forty five minutes west. Dozens of college students had feasted in celebration of his impending pending execution one of Florida's State University's fraternities organized a cookout. It was a twisted but fitting memorial morial to the women of the Chi Omega Sorority. That bundy had sexually assaulted and killed in nineteen seventy eight but the FSU FSU. Homicides weren't all that had led Bundy to death row over a span of four years from nineteen seventy four until nineteen seventy eight. He'd assaulted and killed dozens of women across the United States. In the days leading up to his execution bundy admitted to a total total of thirty homicides though investigators suspected the number could be far higher. They feared it was likely closer to one hundred hundred whether or not Ted was privy to the numerous bundy accused that we're held across. The South is unknown but he knew the majority of the American American public welcomed his execution so he pushed away the standard steak and eggs and Hash browns spread. He'd been asked by the prison. Listen if he wanted a special meal but he declined. Instead of eating he sat staring at the walls of the nine by fourteen foot cell l.. There was nothing else to do but wait in silence. He was all prayed out his minister. Fred Lawrence had been with him past midnight right but the strident barrier of cell bars proved that there was nothing further. The methodist preacher could do for Bundy as six. AM neared food. One of the prison guards came for him. He was tasked with shaving portions of Bundy's head and right leg. The electrodes of the chair couldn't adhere into the skin. If there was too much coarse hair after that bundy changed from the prison issue jumpsuit into a monochromatic Blue Blue Shirt and pants as the clock ticked to seven. AM He was led out of his shoebox cell by his wrist shackles. The want to the execution chamber was short about ten yards. The room itself was partitioned on one side was the chair and Bundy through a hefty plexiglass window. Were forty two. Onlookers many of those who had chosen to watch the event were officials involved in the Kimberly Leach trial. She was a twelve year. Old seventh-grader Bundy had abducted and brutally killed eleven years before the air above the rows of witnesses was thick and somber. no-one stirred as Bundy was led across the joined room to a heavy wooden wooden chair next to it stood emotionless executioner. His Black Hood cloaking him in anonymity Bundy sat down. They strapped him into the chair. He locked eyes with his lawyer. James Colman through the window when the prison superintendent swung microphone onto Bundy's mouth for any final words. Bundy again looked towards his attorneys gays. He spoke evenly. Jim Him and Fred. I'd like you to give my love to my family and friends. The executioner waited until he finished speaking to place place. The last trap under Bundy's Chin as it tightened his eyes bulged. Onlookers reported that he clamped his eyes open and shot repeatedly then they covered Bundy's face with a hood before the electrode to conduct. The electricity into his body was secured award with that. The prison superintendent nodded to the executioner at seven. Oh six. AM The current connected to the chair. Her surged for sixty seconds. Two thousand volts passed from the connection points in to Bundy's body and then the current kicked off the atmosphere was tense as everyone waited for protocol to dictate. What would happen next in tandem? The chief prison Dr Frank Kill Go. And a paramedic made their final checks. The EMT monitored Bundy's weakening winning pulse before the doctor removed the hood to check his pupils ten minutes after the electric shock at seven sixteen am Dr Kilgore confirmed. Bundy was dead the prison lieutenant. Don Davis stepped forward and spoke plainly in the sentence of the state of Florida versus Theodore. Bundy has been carried out. But the droves of people waiting outside the prison mm for proof that the execution was complete wouldn't hear this upwards of a hundred lingered outside the barbed wire coils waiting for the hallmark symbol. They knew a reporter was to emerge flapping a notebook and just a few minutes later. A yellow notepad was spotted waving living in the wind outside the prison. The response from the crowd was jarring people burst into song high fiving and clapping the the hooting created an Eerie Raucous Din. Naturally as the witnesses and officials trickled out of the penitentiary doors. They met this this grisly scene. No one could disagree. That bundy was a sociopath. The events of that morning were carried out as expected. Still the delight light in death. Was Stomach. Churning coming up. We'll look at the cultural response to Ted Bundy's execution now. Now back to the story on Tuesday January Twenty Fourth Nineteen eighty-nine serial killer. Ted Bundy was executed by the electric chair in a Florida prison. The morning marked the end to an especially dark saga of American culture. As bundy's numerous victims were mourned and remembered in the years. Following his execution newspapers often returned to the affable mood. That blanketed crowds outside Florida state. I prison with all their hollering and carousing. The onlookers could have been at a carnival or festival that is if not for their various tee shirts and signs signs indicating they were present for the Friday. Some had even fashioned impromptu hats from aluminum foil to mimic the head piece is that accompanied the electric chair and more those contributing to the reverberating chorus of Burn Bundy Burn included parents with. They're young kids. Some people felt it was appropriate. It's clear that Bundy's execution served as an outlet outlet for the American public to obtain some sort of Catharsis after following the harrowing span of Bundy's crimes over a decade. Even those unaffected did by his murders wanted to see justice. They were looking for some tangible acknowledgment. That the women Bundy had brutally assaulted couldn't wouldn't be brought back the lives. He had maimed and taken. Innocent families have been wrenched into grief and forced to grapple with the results of losing in their daughters sisters or cousins. Many that attended the execution agreed. On the fact that the punishment was due to Bundy a a man who had expressed no remorse for his crimes was ushered out of the world with the same attitude in the parking lot and surrounding surrounding streets of the penitentiary. A massive crowd aired their sorrow and anger. They felt that Bundy's nearly ten years on death. Row was a grievous error after all courts had handed down three different death sentences during his numerous murder trials but the audacious attitude of not only the crowd outside the prison but the surrounding communities marked that Bundy's execution in and and of itself was not enough lightboxes outside restaurants displayed fry themed menus for that day special broadcast casts on news channels provided live video feeds of the hearst leaving the prison and turning onto the interstate towards Gainesville. One waitress Chris working at a diner down the street from the prison seemed to capture the complex mood of the day she was new to Florida and unsettled. By both the scope of Bundy's crimes and the response to his death according to The Washington Post. She spoke with a grim frankness. This this is my first one. We're from Texas. They execute a lot of people in Texas. But I've never seen a crowd like this before it kind of says something about humanity. Don't it I'm Vanessa. Richardson for for more information. On Ted Bundy check out the podcast original serial killers which dives deeper into his crimes. Today in true crime is a podcast original regional. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now l. spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like today in true crime for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar at podcast. Grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reachout on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We back with a brand new episode tomorrow tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and his par cast studios original. It is executive get it produced by Max Cutler. Sound design by Andy Weights with Production Assistance Byron Shapiro and Carly Madden this episode of today in true crime was written by Mackenzie more with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

Ted Bundy Florida Florida State Prison Theodore Ted spotify Texas superintendent Fred Lawrence United States State University Chi Omega Sorority Kimberly Leach Max Cutler Vanessa Richardson facebook Dr Frank James Colman reporter Jim Him executive
Brent Hatley Records His Own Diss Track Aimed at Michael Rapaport  The Howard Stern Show

The Howard Stern Show

01:03 min | 1 year ago

Brent Hatley Records His Own Diss Track Aimed at Michael Rapaport The Howard Stern Show

"The Stern Show I'll whip his ass. I win the street. That's not what the song is forget to talk about his restraining order. Mike stopped a woman and that's not funny thirty like Ted Bundy as scared for lying when she called the cops arrested his ass and put into a soccer straightening his what she called castrating. What a creepy always like he has no clue feelings or he will so like to push the and that's for sure I saw king. Is the only course reading she called. What a creepy stern show.

Ted Bundy Mike soccer
How Hollywood Treats True Crime: Netflix Takes On Ted Bundy

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

48:59 min | 1 year ago

How Hollywood Treats True Crime: Netflix Takes On Ted Bundy

"This message comes from on points sponsor indeed. If you're hiring with indeed, you can post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions, then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard. Get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. From NPR and WB. You are Boston. I'm Kimberly Atkins and this is on point. Ted Bundy is one of the country's most notorious serial killers his savage acts of murder, targeting young women across the country during the nineteen seventies, the live the outward appearance of a clean cut charismatic and intelligent, young man. Bundy is depicted in a new feature film on net flicks starring Zach, Ephron, extremely wicked shockingly, evil and vile. It's told through the eyes of his then girlfriend, Liz, who he charmed, even as he went on trial for murder such a good idea. I can't I'm sorry. I have to pull an all nighter tonight at the law library. Yeah. I gotta make sure the most prepared attorney in the courtroom trial starts this hour on point thirty years after bundy's execution. True crime culture. Then, and now join us do you remember Ted Bundy, the trial the fear his persona? Join us anytime on point radio dot org, or on Twitter and Facebook at on point radio. Joining me from New York is Joe Berlinger. He's an Academy Award nominated an EMMY winning filmmaker in the last six months, he directed to Netflix movies about Ted Bundy conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes is a four part documentary that premiered in January last month, his feature film extremely wicked. Shockingly, evil and vile was released on the streaming service as well. And in select dealers across the country. Joe welcome to on point. Thank you, Kimberly. How are you doing? I'm doing great. If I can manage to talk correctly, we're going to push through. The title of the movie a bit of a ton twin one get no one gets. Thank you for that. So I wanna start off by asking why focus on Ted Bundy now forty years after he was convicted of these heinous crimes thirty years after he was executed. What is it about this case that keeps the public's fascination it will, I think Bundy defies all expectations of what we think serial killer should be. And therefore the lessons of Bundy can't be overstated, especially for a younger audience. You know, he was charming good looking charismatic. He alluded capture for so long because friends and acquaintances couldn't believe that he would be capable of these horrible crimes. He kind of, you know, pulled the wool over the American judicial system, which allowed him to kind of run roughshod over his legal proceedings. The American media kind of embraced him as, as almost as perverse folk hero in he manipulated and used the media. And I, I just think for a younger generation who does not really know the specifics of Bundy, the, the enduring lesson you know, just because somebody looks in access certain way they should not be trusted. I think is a very important message. In fact, before I embarked on these projects, I called my college age daughters up to, you know, who are in as most people know, bundy's prototypical, victim are college age young women, and so my daughters are in that in that group and I spoke to each of my daughters. Both very bright, young, women have very fine schools, which by the way, I did not help them get into those schools. They did it on their own and each each of them, really had no idea who Bundy was, and I had them ask their friends and, you know, some of their friends, vaguely knew will. Isn't he a serial killer, but, but really the story of Bundy, which is so unbelievable is unfamiliar to that to that demographic, and, you know, I I've done a lot of true crime over the years, and for me to take a story on, I feel there needs to be some social commentary, some element of social Justice, and so really, I wanna put out into this world, a reminder to that generation that just because somebody, you know, looks and access certain way they don't they don't deserve our trust now, and I want to drill down a little bit more on this point, the social commentary that you wanna make you mentioned that a lot of folks of the each of your daughters. A lot of people who are college age don't know who Ted Bundy is. I think there are a lot of folks who think that's probably a good thing that somebody who committed all of these crimes should not be a should not be glorified in this way. Was that a concern as you made these two films that's been a great deal of time focusing on the perpetrator of these crimes in less on the actual victims of the crimes that it will look like a glorification. Of course, you know, there have been criticisms that we are glorifying, but I think that's kind of a superficial look what we're doing. You know, glorification would be if we didn't delve deeply into his crimes and. Not putting a message out there about what these people are capable of Dilling. You know, is we don't want to stick our heads in the sand we live in an era of internet cat fishing, where people pretend to be one thing and are often not what they purport to be. We live in an era where you better check the license plate of your Uber to make sure you're not getting into a predators car, who's pretending to be an Uber driver. You know. So, you know, I, I'm I dispute the idea that we're glorifying a horrible serial killer because we're telling their story, you know, it's, it's an era where, you know, look, I've, I've covered crime for twenty five years, and the people who you least expect and most often trust are the people who do evil in this. World. And I think that's you know, we don't wanna stick our heads in the sand and not have a younger generation understand that whether it's a priest who commits pedophilia and then holds mass the next day or you know Michael Jackson and what he did that was covered extensively in the leaving Neverland documentary. It's generally the people you least expect in most often trust who do terrible things and Bundy a pit him is that he alluded capture because his friends missed the clues. He eluded capture even his longtime girlfriend, you know, which is the whole whole perspective of, of extremely wicked. You know, didn't didn't see the clues the, you know, the law enforcement even because he was a good looking white guy in our patriarchal. Seventies, he was allowed to do things that most, you know, if this was a person of color, Bundy would have been in orange, jumpsuit and chains during the entire proceedings instead. Said he was allowed to roam free to use the law library which allowed him to escape twice, you know. So I don't believe by telling somebody story, you're glorifying them, and it's been interesting to watch the reaction. Because when the trailer for the movie for extremely wicked came out and I will say the first trailer that was released. I was not a fan of the marketing people who wanted to sell the movie at Sundance that a certain kind of trailer and that trailer seem to suggest there was violence in the movie, a lot of violence. And so the movie was criticized for by some because some people have loved the film, but the movie was criticized before release that. Oh, look at the trailer. There's violence and therefore, you know, you're glorifying Bundy because of because of all the violence when the movie came out. There's actually very little re-creations of violence. We certainly talk. About violence in the movie, but the film was then criticized. Oh, there's no violence in the movie. You're glorifying Bundy. So I think there's a certain group of people for this subject matter that it will provoke that kind of reaction do you know, the documentary series was very detailed dissection of all of the terrible crimes of Bundy and, you know, it was not focused on the victims per se. And so people said, well, where's the victim? Well, extremely wicked is all about the victims POV and, and that's being criticized as being somehow because there's no violence, and it's through the victims POV. It's being criticized as, as making light of Bundy documentary series later when I start by talking about extremely wicked. You have been on making films about chew crime for a while. But you haven't always taken the feature route, and certainly Zach Ephron is not known for. Portraying a serial killer in extremely wicked. Ted Bundy at one point was depicted being unwavering in professing his innocence. Oh, well, slandering law enforcement and the judiciary judicial system. Here is fron playing Bundy entering a question from a local, Colorado jailhouse reporter. I am. Statement that I am innocent. Do you think the police have done a bad job, because you're an innocent guy here sitting in prison, as long as the beliefs, keep their heads in the sand about me that people are going to continue showing up dead or missing from the canyons in Colorado, to Salt Lake valley, and young women are going to continue to be threatened by that person or persons. Now, if the voice of that jailhouse reporter sounds familiar, that's because it is Joe's. And that. What better role for documentarian to play the journalist who interviews Bundy Fragneau, if there was ever a role made for me? Right. Right. But just you know, before in the few seconds before we have to take a little break pudding. Zach Ephron in this role in itself was in as you move, right? I mean, he sees a beloved good-looking endearing kind of guy, what was behind selecting him to Syria, a serial killer. I mean Zach was my first choice in. And thank God, he said, yes, because I think he brilliantly executes the role and again, it goes to the whole point of what the purpose of extremely wicked is, which is to it is not a movie about how a serial killer kills. We've seen that many times, what's scarier to me is how the serial killer operates in the other part of his life when he's not killing when he's deceiving, when he's betraying when he's being charming and for and as I mentioned, I in particular I'm targeting a younger generation that doesn't really. No Bundy, and who better to encapsulate that then one of the most beloved figures for a certain young demographic for a certain demographic, for the people who I want to watch this movie Zach is somebody who can do no wrong because of, you know, he has a certain persona and who better than to illustrate this idea that just because somebody looks and acts certain way they are not worthy of your trust. We are discussing true crimes, then, and now with, with the producer of two new films on serial killer Ted Bundy, you can join the conversation, have you seen either of the recent Ted Bundy films on net flicks? What did you think about them? I'm Kimberly Atkins. This is on point. This message comes from on points sponsor indeed when it comes to hiring, you don't have time to waste you need. Help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes set up screener questions, then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsor jobs, new users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. Terms, conditions, and quality standards apply. A language was about to die. Once it gets wiped out. That's it. We will have nothing in our language, to pass store, children and the people trying to save it, we're still learning how to speak it Amir to hurry up time was working against, as we were like hundred years late. You know it's code switch. Yola lo fi. Listen and subscribe, this is on point. I'm Kimberly Atkins, we're talking with filmmaker Joe Berlinger about his to net flicks. Films about serial killer Ted Bundy, thirty years after he was put to death in the electric chair. You can join the conversation should Ted Bundy or other killers. Get the Hollywood treatment follow us on Twitter and find us on Facebook at on point radio. A Joe Berlinger is the director of the net flix film called extremely wicked. Shockingly evil in vile as well as the four part documentary series conversations with a killer of the Ted Bundy tapes. I wanna talk a little bit more about the feature film extremely wicked. And, and listen to Zach Ephron who portrays Ted Bundy in the film, as he describes the challenge to understand bundy's personality, and the often endearing effect, he had on others. Ted had this, this thing about him this magic, Ted Bundy facade his charm. Where he worked with people, a lot of people in prison with him, loved him cops that knew him seem to think he was an okay guy. It wasn't until after he was fully accused that a lot of fully admitted to everything that a lot, most of the world really believed that Ted was even capable of things like this. So he pulled the wool over a lot of people's is in jail in watching these films. I watched the feature I before the documentary series. And it was like a reminder like a harsh reminder watching the documentary being reminded of exactly all the terrible things that Ted Bundy did after watching this film. That was told through the eyes of his then girlfriend, Liz, you can see from her perspective, the, the conflicts that she had. But at the same time almost they almost seem like films to me, anyway, about two different p. People was that sort of the intent behind these films. Or what do you think about that potential effect? Well, I think it's the same person and they have two very different sides. And that's what's scary. And, you know, we want to think that a serial killer is some two dimensional monster that lives in the far corners of the human condition, and that there's some kind of weird, looking or social outcast or some kind of person who has no ability to fit in with society. That's the stereotype, and that's what we want to think a serial killer is because that gives us in some strange way, some comfort that they are easily identifiable and therefore we can avoid them, but the reality is again. I've, I've covered a lot of real crime over the years, and the but the reality with many of these people who do evil and particularly with Bundy is they fit into society very well they fool people for a long time. And so. Extremely wicked is a portrait of betrayal, and, and a personification of what it's like to be deceived, by that kind of person we certainly don't avoid the violent acts that he committed in the movie, we just don't recreate them. But, you know, within the first few minutes of the film, there's archival footage of, of the first murder investigations intercut with, you know, happy family home movies throughout the move, half actually a little more than half of the movies, actually, the Florida trials and in the Florida trials we hear what people who aren't privy to the actual act of murder would be hearing. And so we certainly don't avoid the terrible things he did. But we don't show. You know Zach actually committing those murders. And I think there's two points here that are very relevant. One is, you know, some people feel that by not showing those murders were being disrespectful to the victims. I think just the opposite. I'm hugh. I spent a lot of time in my documentary life as as an advocate for victims rights as somebody shining, a light on criminal Justice reform. And I think the worst thing, the most disrespectful thing you could do to a victim is to recreate the worst moment of their existence, which is when they're being, you know, raped and murdered and killed. So there's plenty of discussion of violence in the movie and by the end of the movie. And it's also you know, we live in a society, where images of violence are just a few key strokes away where even an eight year old can come upon the most violent and degrading images of, of violence of pornography violent pornography on if I was a parent of a young. Teenager, particularly boy today, I would be horrified and scared as to what's available within a few key strokes. Right. So I think this the amount of violent imagery in our society has desensitized to the power of those images. And if the movie was loaded with violent imagery, by the time we get to the final reveal at the end of the movie when Liz played brilliantly by lily Collins confronts him on death row and makes him admit to the crimes, and we cease for the first time Bundy actually committing those crimes, I think that moment, would have no dramatic power, because we would have been numbed by dozens of images of, of death and destruction up up until the point. So statically I wanted to hold off until the end of the movie. But I also think it's disrespectful to victims to show them being killed. I want to get to the phone lines. We have folks who wanna talk to you, Steve is calling. From Columbia, Missouri. Hi Steve for low. Thank you. First of all, I've seen both the documentary and the movie, and I do not understand criticism. I think it was the casting was excellent. And it was very well done if you've seen both of them, you can compare the tapes of Ted Bundy, with the acting and you can see that he was manipulative he was charismatic. And as far as the difference between. Thirty five forty years ago when he was committing murders. And now I don't I'm old enough to remember all of that, when that was happening and the country was focused on him just as they're still. I don't wanna use the word fascination. It's not fascination. It's a certain bewilderment that he doesn't fit into stereotype and. As was just minute. Just mentioned just a few minutes ago. Steve. Thanks for that. I wonder if he was a split personality at times, who didn't really believe that he had committed murders. I can't explain it but it's just. Let's pause and get Joe's thoughts on that. What do you think to, you know, there's no definitive answer? But I believe that people who compartmentalized, and look, we all compartmentalized to a certain degree. You know, we all go about our lives and, you know, forget that there's climate change going on. And forget that there's, you know, a billion people starving and living in poverty, and we all go about our lives. So compartmentalization is part of the human condition, and I believe Bundy was a master of compartmentalization, he really did like Liz or care for Liz in my opinion, and really had any need for a normal relationship in his life. And I believe he was able to compartmentalize his evil whether or not that compartment compartmentalization actually went to the point where he had, you know, we're where there were periods when he was being normal that he had no memory of what he actually did as a. When he was being an evil monster. It's hard to say but I think he was a master at compartmentalization pats on the line calling from counters point, a Pennsylvania. Hi, pat. Hi. I have a Ted Bundy story. That's never been told and I had a girlfriend who was going to college in Colorado in the mid seventies. And she and her of her female college friends walked out some trail and some state park quite a distance and they decided to nude sunbathe on the rocks and they were smoking marijuana and my friend happened to look over, there was a creek like valley creek and a hillside on the other side. And there was a man watching them at first, she wasn't sure he was watching, then she was pretty sure he was. And when you're sunbathing you turn this way, and that so the son gets you from all different angles and every time she turned over he was still sitting there and about the time that they decided to get dressed and go back to their car. He wasn't there anymore. So she told her friend to just get dressed. And let's go to the car, real quick, and they were walking quickly. And she got to the point where she could see him coming towards the creek, then she could see him crossing the creek holding a bag or a backpack up above the water and as he got closer. She said there were friend run and they ran to their car. They got in the car shut the doors locked the doors. He arrived at the car, just as they got the doors locked they took off. He had a Volkswagen bus, and he followed them, but they were able to lose them because he couldn't maneuver on the back roads like they could it was. I don't mean to interrupt you. How, how were they certain at this was Ted Bundy, while I'm getting to that? So they lost them years later, she's in bed with her husband, he's reading a book, and she said, what are you reading, and he said, oh, it's a book about Ted Bundy, and she said, well, let me see it, and she looks through the book and there's a picture of him, and she recognized him as the man that chased them in Colorado. So she just barely. Was not a victim of him. I'm absolutely certain of it. And we've been friends since childhood. I never heard this story until this past January. She thought she had told me the story before she was so upset when she saw his picture in the book that I think he was being held in Florida on death row at the time. And she wanted to go down and talk to him about, you know, this instance, and her husband talked out of it. Well, well Joe what's your reaction to that amazing? It's it's been interesting. There have been. I've been reached out to by so many people who have had Ted Bundy encounter. You know, it's astounding that he's had so much interaction with people. I want to talk a move to the documentary. The four part documentary conversations with a killer. Ted Bundy tapes, which include a lot of never before heard in interviews with Ted Bundy, you can hear him in his own voice, and you can also really get a sense of the media circus, that surrounded this case. I mean there had been serial killers before folks like Richard speck, and Charles Manson. But around this case, the fascination and the media coverage really made this the first true crime story in a sense that was playing out on the television screens of Americans. But at the same time, if you look at the way mash, killings mass shootings and mass killings are covered today. There's a reluctance among law enforced. Moment and members of the media to even speak the name of the killer nears a lot more focus on profiling victims tuck, a little bit about just how coverage of horrific crimes like this has changed over the years. And, and the reasons for that you're one of the reasons for my fascination with, with the Bundy cases to me Bundy is the big bang of our current obsession with true crime. You know, there was a there was changing television technology going on at the time. I mean, just a few months before the Bundy trial, many, new stations were still shooting news coverage on film, which meant there was no such thing as live coverage. But right around the Bundy trial, they were switching over to what we currently know who has electron IQ news gathering and satellite technology, which was brand new, and the growing interest in Bundy combined with this new technological achievement of being able to actually cover things, live with satellite, and, you know, use the satellite transmission to, you know. Broadcast live as I say, you know, pushed its way into the Florida courtroom in the Florida Supreme Court in a controversial decision. Granted cameras in the courtroom. So the Bundy trial became the first nationally televised trial, and for the first time ever Americans, you know, millions of Americans could sit in their living rooms and watch, you know, serial rape, and serial murder as live entertainment. And I think that, that was the precipitating event that has led to this obsession in documentary and televise kind of true crime and you can draw a line from there to the Bundy execution. A decade later was the first time the new technology of mobile satellite trucks, enabled all these trucks to camp outside the death house and cover his execution. And then just a few years later in ninety five with the with the OJ Simpson trial, that was now, you know, you had the twenty four hour news cycle kicking in proliferation of cable stations and the coverage of that. Trial became you know, the next big bang of, of our current obsession. Look, I believe, and I think it's important not to give the killer, you know, not to speak, his name, not to give them the attention. They deserve in these mass shootings. I think that's a very wise policy. I do think people confuse, you know, people have said, oh, well, we're giving Bundy everything he craved. He wanted the attention. And look at these documentaries, he's getting the attention. I think that's kind of a superficial view of things Bundy, didn't want the attention or crave the attention. He for years went undetected and wanted to kill with impunity without detection. But when he noticed that he was becoming a media star he used and exploited that to try to convince people he was innocent. It's not that he was doing these crimes for attention. He was doing it just for the opposite reason. But so I think I think you see, it's a it's, it's an apples. And oranges comparison. But with today's mass shootings, I think it's an extremely wise policy to not, you know, not to give any credence to who the killer is a lot of the chew crime. You're talking about the, the advent of the true crime phenomenon in how it is still very popular. We've seen various podcast and television series devoted to that. But in a lot of those in a lot of those films and podcasts it, there's a question about whether or not the person in question actually did it or there's a question about the police conduct in this case, Ted bundy's story is very different. We're pretty we're, we're more than certain that. He did do this, where more than certain that acting as his own attorney. He he tried to throw the Justice system asunder. So how is it different in approaching this kind of story, then in one where guilt, or innocence, for example, may not be clear, you, we'll look the whole? Guilt or innocence storytelling approach is something that obviously I'm very familiar with the paradise lost series. You know, I made a series of films about the west, Memphis three, the films are widely credited, along with the extreme activism of a lot of dedicated people, but the films were the catalyst for the that activism, and in the films have been credited with helping shine a light on these wrongful convictions. And that kind of storytelling is very important, but I think all advocacy filmmaking in this speier isn't just about wrongful convictions. It's about bringing certain social injustices, or social commentary to light and again, for me, the whole reason to do Bundy when my daughters told me they had no idea, who Bundy was. And I think about the era that we live in again with the internet, catfish ING with people posting idealized versions of, who they are on social media, and that reality may not always be the same that poor. A young woman who got into the wrong Uber. It wasn't an Uber was a fake Uber. And, and she was killed. You know we live we live in, in in, I think perilous times, where Ted Bundy could operate. And so my goal again, was to put put out into the world for a younger generation that just because somebody looks in access certain way, they don't deserve your trust where discussing the nation's fascination with chew crime and how those attitudes are changing three decades after Ted Bundy was executed. You can join the conversation, do you like true crime depictions, and why I'm Kimberly Atkins this is on point. Hey, it's been an Ameri, and we're the hosts of endless threat the show featuring stories found on the website, read it but you don't have to be a or to enjoy the kinds of stories. We tell like a couple experimenting with non monogamy or board game that may have predicted the attacks on Pearl Harbor. Subscribe to endless threat on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. I'm Gregory Warner and this week on rough translation. We follow a rescue mission in real time after an Iraqi photojournalist goes missing on the front lines. We don't believe I don't believe it leaves his family and his friends to try to save him. When he said, who is this? Who are you? They respond. We are the Slavic state this week on rough translation. This is on point. I'm Kimberly Atkins, we're talking with filmmaker Joe Berlinger about his to net flicks films about notorious serial killer Ted Bundy, you can join the conversation. How should we talk about the worst among us follow us on Twitter and find us on Facebook at on point radio? Now Joan I wanna play a clip from the documentary series conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes, Carol Durant was eighteen year old in November of nineteen seventy four. When Ted Punti poses a police officer outside of a mole in Utah, and convinced her to get in his car. A few minutes later Bundy tried to kill her the next thing I knew pulled out a gun said a blow your head off. I just thought go ahead. This go ahead. Do it just kill me now but I found the door jumped out the car. He came out after me. And we struggled outside. He had a crowbar that he was trying to hit me over the head. I had my hand on topic and fill it. I just thought with all my rash him and fight with being overall broken. I remember his beady blink lifeless eyes. And again, the casino from conversations with a killer, the Ted Bundy tapes, Joe, we have stories like this. We think about we maybe don't even know all of the women who had an encounter with Ted Bundy and survived and are living with this memory, just like the friend of the caller. We heard from earlier talk a little bit about that. You know, there, there have been have been some survivors, who we've interviewed who are in the show, and it is frightening the amount of people that he's encountered he's. Admitted to thirty the FBI puts the number at thirty five but I think experts believed the numbers much higher. So not only, you know, unfortunately, not only do I think there are other people out there who have had these encounters, but more importantly, I think unfortunately, there are victims out there who have not been accounted for who, who were actually killed by Bundy, Amy is on the line calling from woodberry for Mont. Hi, amy. Hi, thank you for taking my call. I wanted to say I, I appreciate what you did with paradise lost. And I think that Damien Echols is alive today, largely if not completely because of your exposure to their case, which is really profound. So thank you for that. I wanted to say that I I've really studied a lot. I think a lot of Americans have this facination with real killers. And after reading the only living witness by Ainsworth, you really get to see how truly depraved he was. I've loved both the documentary movie that you made. But I think that we're criticism, the least I have is four women or daughter's age. Komo's women and women younger, who may not know how truly horrible he was, for example, kidnapping and murdering beneath Maslin, and Janice in one day in broad daylight on a holiday. Out of very publicly is something that is just it's insane that he was able to do that. And what he did to these women is truly so horrible. And I think that his depravity is lost in the film. Thank you for taking my call. Thank you for the whole show. What would you think about that? Well, you know, look, everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course. And, and if the move in, and of course, I shouldn't expect people to watch both each each film project should exist on its own. I shouldn't expect people to watch the documentary to fill in the blanks of what was left out of the movie. But, again, the movie is there to portray the three dimensionality of these psychopaths, not because we want to humanize them. But because we want to show that they are actually three dimensional human beings who spend a good deal of their life, not killing but deceiving. And that mecca. Of deception and so to load the movie up with, you know, re-creations of killings, which, again, I think is disrespectful to the victim. It, it undercuts, it would undercut the power that the movie has at the end of the film. Look, every film doesn't work for everybody, but for whom the film work's when Bundy finally admits to his longtime lover that. Yes, I did do all these terrible things, and we see glimpses of it in that final moment in that final flashback. It's an emotionally, gut wrenching experience for Liz herself. And that's the experience, I want to give the audience, I want the audience to actually as the movies unfolding to have that sense of inner conflict. You know, I, I actually want people to suspend the intellectual knowledge that they're watching a movie about a serial killer, and invest in that relationship and to understand how because we don't want to think that Liz is just missed the clues and somehow that she's deficient in some way, you know, she she, she missed the clue. Because Bundy was a master manipulator, and we want, I want the audience to experience that manipulation themselves. You're the. You're the guarantees updating my next question, because I wanted, you we were talking about this three dimensionality the, the approach of following this through the eyes of Liz, I'm thinking of a scene, where a right after they first met, and she wakes up and realizes that he is not there and she doesn't see her daughter right away. And she gets up in a panic to see what happened. This man is gone her daughter's gone, and she finds them in the kitchen her in her high chair him in an apron, cooking breakfast. And I just thought that was a scene that sort of captured what you were trying to get across some even when she had her Spidey senses as a mother, he managed to, to completely disarm, her, right? And, and part of that is to is to let the audience know that this is not going to be that kind of movie to play with audience expectations to allow the audience to engage in that relationship. So that when the betrayal happens at the end of the movie. That the audience themselves feel that same level of disgust. You know, again, this is mainly targeted to a younger audience. That doesn't have the details of his crimes and reveres both zaken lily. They both have huge fan bases. And I literally, you know, to me, the best reaction to the movies for somebody at the end of the film to say, oh, my God when he was jumping out the window and escaping prison. I was actually rooting for him to, to, you know, to get back to Liz, and so that the love can relationship can continue and. Oh my God. I can't believe I actually fell for it, and I'm so disgusted that I fell for it because I feel along with Liz, that this character has manipulated and betrayed me because that's the nature of evil again. Evil is done by the people often done by the people closest to you, and who you least expect and so that is what I'm trying to portray in the movie, the nature of deception and betrayal. Frank is on the line from. Baltimore, maryland. Hi, frank. Thanks for taking my call. I was a journalist working for broadcast group, serving ten TV stations across the country and covered the execution of Ted Bundy, and, like always saying this was big bang for satellite news coverage. The press was on a field across the street from the depth house prison. Spokesman would come out periodically and give us briefings. I have brought tape one of our stations was in Denver and other employed, where Bundy had committed crimes, and, and the essence of the back story that I was telling leading up to the execution was of his deception. It was kind of a warning, you know to, to all to, you know, this is what can happen while the morning of the execution. I was on the ground in Florida for twenty nine hours. I did twenty seven live shots and the morning of the execution was a carnival atmosphere. There are hundreds of spectators, many of them were college students guys and young women. Full. Hair makeup and dress like the reclogging to come out who is almost like a pep rally, volunteer. I mean, the local fire department auxiliary was here, selling coffee and donuts. And there was a plant that truck there that oppose the death penalty, you know, just on principle when the execution announcement came, there was a loud cheer, and which really upset me. I thought you know, people were missing the point. But when I did my life shots. It was very interesting to note that the different reaction from the different markets. Oklahoma City, Princeton. So when I was done talking all I heard from the anchors was, thanks spring. But when I went to Washington DC, and Atlanta and Phoenix. There were three four five anchor follow up, questions, just kind of couldn't get enough wanted more detail and everything, and it really showed you, you know, the scope, the spectrum of, of reaction. Across america. So I just wanted to share that. Thank you for that. Thank you for that, Frank, one of the things that Frank brought up Joe is the fact that in the spectacle surrounding this story, a lot of times women dressed up coming to this wanting to be a part of it in your film in your documentary. Some women are questioned who even those who believe he was a killer, who believe he committed these crimes still talked about how they were drawn to him fascinated by him. And I wondered is there a sense that some, some of those things stay the same? I'm recalling the, the documentary about our Kelly, for example, where he actually picked up girls while he was on trial, and despite horrible horrible charges being made against people if they're seen as good looking and charming enough. Women are still trying to them. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah. I mean you know it's hard to put everything in one in one category. I certainly don't want to right off. You know, bundy's a lure as just women wanting to, you know, be involved with dangerous person. I think that's an over simplification and the thing to me, that's the most remarkable is that people were coming to the Florida trial, not necessarily because they were so titillated by Bundy and thought he was guilty. But he had this power. He was using the, the media to make people feel like he was he was innocent. And, you know, to me, one of the extrordinary things about this case, and, which we are definitely making a comment on is that he was given a free pass to allow that perception to be built he was allowed to represent himself at trial. He was given even though he was. You know, he didn't have a law degree was a law student, and all of a sudden he's representing himself at trial, and you know, turn. And that legal, you know, again all due respect to all the officials who you know, the prosecutor Larry Simpson. Everyone did a great job. But the fact that Bundy was allowed to represent himself at trial to me is very, very disturbing. Because if that was a person of color, who had been accused of these crimes he would be in an orange jumpsuit wrapped in chains the entire time. And the judge is almost apologetic at the end of the movie, one of the reasons we call it extremely wicked. Shockingly, evil vile is these are the words that the judge articulates to him as to why he's giving him the death sentence because his acts were extremely wicked. Shockingly evil and vile, but he also takes as we see both in the movie and the dock and in the movie, the judge is judge coward is played by John Malkovich. We hear the judge quite a almost apologizing for sentencing, the guy that the guy to death saying, you know, hey, you would have been a good lawyer. I wish you wish you could have, you know. Practice in front of me. But you went different way partner. And you know, you know, I have no animosity towards you could you imagine if that was a person of color, a judge would be, you know, anything other than, you know almost apologetic. And when I try to get one more caller in a couple of minutes, we have left be is on the line from Clearwater, Florida hobby. Hi. So I wanted to talk about how you it was previously mentioned that the film docu series was made because your daughter's didn't know who had Bundy was I had a similar experience. You know, Ted Bundy was put to death in January of nineteen eighty nine I was born in may of nine hundred eighty nine so it wasn't super familiar. But, you know, I live my life as being a decent person. I'd try to be a force for good. And I realized when I was watching the docu series I had a guttural reaction of like I would have been victim. I would have one hundred percent victim. If someone anyone comes up to me, and ask, hey, can I get some help, especially somebody with their arm in a sling Yang? I'm going to go help them and watching the docu series really has made me rethink about how I hold myself in life, and who I'm willing to help in wear willing to help. And I feel like that is so so important. And I really wish that more people would. Have that same reaction because there's a lot of out your who want to be forced for good and help where we can. And sometimes it's just straight up not safe to do. So. Thank you for that. Call be Joe. What do you think? We'll look I really appreciate the honesty of that answer. And of course, that's the type of response. I was hoping to get from people again for my daughter's generation, and it's a hard message. You know, look when I was a twenty something year old backpacking through Europe. Some of my greatest experiences were just encountering strangers and having those wonderful magic moments that you have just when you're, you're young and living your life and, you know, you want to trust people. And so, you know what I'm saying is like you can't not have those experiences. Of course, I don't want people so shutdown that they don't trust anybody. But deepen your gut there's a there's a there's a radar that people really need to listen to and, and they should take extra precaution. You know, I don't. Wanna tell my daughters, don't trust anybody don't go out and have any kind of experiences in life. But just like this caller, you know, you have to be careful and understand who you're trusting, and sometimes it's hard to understand or it's impossible to know who you're trusting and so you air on the side of caution. I mean, that's really that's, that's the main reason to retail his story. And that was my goal. So, you know, I, I do appreciate what, what she had to say. And you mentioned that both of these films may not be for the same audiences, people may not watch both in just the piece seconds. We have left, who is the audience for each of them. Well, I think it's a good question. I mean, I think anyone who's interested in learning about these stories. I mean, I think both projects are two hat to different halves of the same coin. One is a deep dive into the mind of a killer and a very comprehensive dissection of, of who he was what he did. And why, and that's for those who want that kind of experience and the movie extremely wicked shockingly evil in vile is much more of a psychological portrait of, of deception and betrayal. And I think those lessons can be applied beyond serial killing. There is a lot of people who do evil in the world who pretend to be one thing, and really are, are, are quite another doesn't have to just be serial killing. So I think that's a in fact, targeted to a wider audience chill Berlinger, who's two movies extremely wicked. Shockingly evil and vile and conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes are on net flicks now. Thank you for joining us. Thanks kimberly. An IM Kimberly Atkins, you can join the conversation on, on point on our on Twitter or on Facebook at on radio. I'm can really Atkins. This is on point.

Ted Bundy Joe Berlinger Kimberly Atkins Florida Liz Zach Ephron Bundy Fragneau Twitter Facebook murder NPR NPR Boston attorney New York Ted Colorado Netflix Academy Award Frank
Welcome to Parcast Presents: Infamous!

Parcast Presents

00:58 sec | Last month

Welcome to Parcast Presents: Infamous!

"Ted Bundy. Eileen were notice the branch Davidians. When it comes to crime, some name, stand out above the rest, the more wicked than. On. Throughout the month of July, we're bringing you. The notorious killers, perplexing mysteries and jaw, dropping events that have stood the test of time. Look closely at the headlines. This is podcast presents infamous featuring cultural defining stories from shows across the podcast network. You'll discover just how much one action one movement and one person can alter the course of history for the worst. So what's in a name? Here about to find out park cast presents infamous starts on July first and runs the entire month. Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Campus Killer Pt. 1: Ted Bundy

Serial Killers

47:52 min | 6 months ago

The Campus Killer Pt. 1: Ted Bundy

"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of abuse murder and sexual assault that some people may I find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. It was a clear January day in nineteen eighty thirty one year old. Stephen Michaud drove down highway. Sixteen in in Raeford Florida lush green fields stretched as far as the I could see insects hummed but once Steven Pass through the gates of the Florida State Prison. He entered a different world inside blue skies. gave way a too hard fluorescent lit interiors and despite the chilly temperature Stephen began to sweat. Stephen was about to enter one of the highest security facilities. The state could offer as he was escorted down the prison corridor by a team of armed guards. He could hear his heart heart pounding in his ears after all Stephen was no. FBI profiler or police. Detective he was just a journalist. His entourage guards took him through one last secure door. Stephen steeled himself as it swung open inside. A man sat at a metal table dressed in a pale. Orange prison issued uniform a chain around his waist. Stephen hesitated almost shocked the inmate before him was a regular looking guy in his thirty's handsome even even with is as clear blue as the Florida skies. The men smiled widely journalist. Beckoning him to sit down. As Stephen took a seat across from him and hit record on his tape player he had to remind himself who the man on the other side of the table was he was no ordinary prisoner or just a charming acquaintance. He was a monster in Carnet. Stephen Stephen was face to face with Ted Bundy. Hi I'm Greg Paulson. This is serial killers a podcast original all every Monday. We dive into the minds of madness of serial killers this week were covering the brutal murders committed by one of the most notorious serial killers of the twentieth century. Ted Bundy. I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richardson Hi everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other par- cast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream serial killers for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers killers in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at apar- cast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help this week? Will unpack Ted Bundy's traumatic early childhood as well as the events that chipped away at the last of his humanity precipitating tasting his first eight confirmed murders. Next week we'll track Ted as he embarks on a killing spree. That ends in the mutilation and murder order of dozens of young women in cities across the US. A bloody rampage. That spurred multiple arrests and trials leading him to become and one of America's most iconic murderers Ted Bundy was born. Feared are Robert Robert cowl on November twenty fourth nineteen forty six in Burlington Vermont. His mother twenty two year old. Louis call gave birth to Ted in a home for unwed mothers others. The identity of Ted's father to this day is unknown on his birth certificate. A man named Lloyd Marshall is listed. Ted's mother claimed that Marshall was a thirty year old former air force pilot however years later she mentioned another man a sailor by the name Jack Jack Worthington. Neither of these men however have been confirmed as Ted's true biological father. Some theory suggests that neither Lloyd Marshall Ignored Jack worthing ten existed at all leaving Ted for all intents and purposes fatherless. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research for this show. Thanks Greg. Researchers have found that young children lacking a parent have difficulty forming deep interpersonal bonds and can develop serious emotional issues in adulthood. These individuals sometimes have a tendency to react aggressively or angrily to situations others might consider to be neutral according to mental health expert Jared Brown with the Minnesota Psychological Association. This behavior stems from a combination of perceived abandonment and attachment issues. But despite the absence of a biological father Ted Bundy was raised in the shadow of a different father. Figure one far from the example of empathy but he so desperately needed after after giving birth. Louise didn't intend to keep her son. She left the baby boy at the home for unwed mothers in Vermont and returned to Philadelphia to live with her parents but for months. His mother agonized over the decision to give him up. Ted's grandfather demanded that she bring the boy home. MM-HMM LOUISE's father. Sam cowl decided that he and Louise's mother. Eleanor would raise Ted as their own. They would tell him and everyone outside the Carter family family that they had adopted the three-month-old they would be as parents. Not Louise and Louise was to play. The part of her son's much older sister. This was not unheard of at the time. Some families decided to keep their illegitimate grandchildren a secret by claiming them as their own rather than face ridicule ridicule from their communities but intend Bundy's case being in his grandparents care was far more tumultuous than being raised by a young single angle mother. Samco Ted's grandfather was known to be exceptionally ruthless man. He was an alcoholic alchoholic with a violent temper and was reportedly cruel to animals. Some accounts claim that Sam kick family dogs and would throw the neighborhood cats around by the tails but his abuse wasn't just limited to pets. Sam also went on frequent violent rampages in the family home. He he said to have pushed one of his daughters down the stairs because she overslept and may have also abused his wife. Elinor a timid woman who suffered from severe depression and Gora Phobia eventually. Eleanor never left the house. It seemed no one was left unscathed from Sam cowles wrath or at least no one but little theodore. There's no evidence that Sam abused his grandson. According to Ted he was never the victim of his grandfathers violence or of any abuse for that matter. In fact he loved Sam and even looked up to him. Ted Often recounted his childhood hood in an idyllic almost unrealistic way and though he was far from reliable narrator because there are no documented accounts that he suffered childhood abuse. You very well may have been telling the truth though. We'll never know definitively if ted suffered any sort of abuse physical or psychological ecological at the hands of his grandfather. There's no doubt that he witnessed the abuse of his female relatives at a very early age. This experience would surely shaped his perception of manhood and very possibly his violent tendencies. According to social psychologists and Abuse Specialists Donald Donald Dutton children who experienced domestic violence are more likely to develop an abusive personality. Dutton found that male children in particular were or at a greater risk than their female counterparts of becoming abusers. This was especially true in the case of young boys who witnessed abuse against others rather than being directly victimized themselves a circumstance strikingly similar to the one young. Ted Bundy was raised in however tiddly lived under SAM calls tyranny for the first few years of his life in nineteen fifty when he was four Ted and his mother. Louise moved to Tacoma Washington to live with relatives. Ted was devastated to be taken from his beloved grandparents. Who He still believed? Were his adoptive parents but Louise was determined to start a new life with her son far from the abusive household she had grown up in in the summer. The one thousand nine hundred ninety one. Louise met Johnny Bundy at an adult singles night at the local Methodist Church. The too quickly fell in love and it wasn't long before they were married buried afterward. Johnny formerly adopted Ted. Giving him the name that would become so infamous decades later Ted Bundy but despite this gesture of love and acceptance Ted was never very fond of his stepfather. He described Johnny as dimwitted and resented the fact that he didn't earn much money as a military cook over the next ten years as louise and Johnny added four more children to the family. Ted became seem emotionally detached preferring to spend his time alone as a kid and especially as an adolescent. Ted was incredibly shy and self conscious inches. He had a speech impediment that often left him stuttering and he had few friends throughout his school years he generally struggled to fit in. However Ted's memory of his own childhood was entirely different? The picture that Ted constructed of his youth for psychologists and journalists was like a Norman Rockwell painting. He recalled summer days catching frogs and playing marbles and peewee football with neighborhood kids. He played up the fact that he was a boy scout and that every Sunday the entire Bundy clan went to church strangely. Ted's mother Louise echoed the saccharin picture of his youth. Even after his crimes were revealed she described as a very normal active boy. Our Son is the best son in the world. And perhaps Louise Truly did believe this about Ted after all. He became increasingly skilled at hiding his less savory activities. During his adolescence Ted began his criminal career as a peeping Tom. He would sneak off in the evenings. And Prowl his middle-class neighborhood to masturbate while he watched women through the windows of their homes. This voyeuristic streak eventually dominated more and more of Ted's life as a teenager. It became an all consuming routine and he would return to the same houses to watch the same women until the early hours of the morning morning. As far as we know Ted was never caught and as a result Louise was never conscious of this deviant side of her son in fact it seems no one was explicitly aware of Ted's darker inclinations but his peers always knew there was something off about Ted in high school. His classmates often said that Ted didn't seem to be all there. He was aloof and never got too close to anyone. He never went drinking and and despite developing into a relatively handsome young man he never attended school dances or dated at school. Just like at home. Ted was was a loner. Of course heads. Memory of his time in high school was once again different from reality he recounted being perhaps a bit straight edge but it also claimed he was a good student and talented athlete. In truth. Ted's classmates remember him being both a mediocre student and a lacklustre athlete eight. It seems Ted later over wrote his entire history with the version he wanted to be true. This is in part because Ted had a big ambitions for himself resentful of his family's lower middle-class economic status he was obsessed with elevating himself to something he felt was greater more elite. Ted Desperately wanted to be a successful lawyer or even president but he knew he'd only be able to accomplish these goals if if he became a particular kind of person someone Suave and intelligent popular and capable so he started rewriting the parts of his life. If that didn't fit the mold and soon he was given the ultimate opportunity to reinvent himself. He went to college after a year at the University of puget. Sound in one thousand nine hundred sixty six nine thousand nine year old Ted transferred to the University of Washington in Seattle and went to work reconstructing his identity he threw out his timid personality and formed an entirely new persona one that was intense intense but likable intellectual yet. All American he taught himself to smile with ease and talk with steady unwavering eye. Contact Act with each new person. He met he tried out this new self until he honed did to near perfection. Essentially Ted was practicing the charisma and charm arm of the kind of politician. He thought he wanted to be to gain more experience with this political persona firsthand. He volunteered on a local campaign around. One thousand nine hundred sixty seven. Ted Volunteered for Republican Nelson Rockefeller's presidential residential campaign working on the campaign trail gave him a built in social life. He never had suddenly. He had a group of friends campaign staffers and other volunteers and a variety of political functions to attend these events gave Ted real opportunities to test drive his sparkling personality with practice actus. He found he could strike up a conversation easily and fit in any function. These newfound social skills also landed him his first girlfriend in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven twenty year old. Ted Met Diana birds a fellow student at the University University of Washington. Diane was the kind of woman Ted Dreamed of. She was tall and beautiful with long dark hair. But it wasn't just Diane's looks that Ted adored. She also came from a wealthy family near San Francisco. She was worldly sophisticated upper class. Ted Ted swiftly fell in love. The two spent much of their time together going on drives arrives. They traveled across Washington State through dense forests seeking beautiful views on the mountains. Ted later said they also spent hours Kissing Diane Diane expensive car whispering sweet. Nothings to one another. Diane was most likely the first person to truly get close to Ted. She saw potential in him. She was attracted to his confidence and charm but she felt he could make something more of himself because she came from a wealthy influential family. Diana was looking to be with someone who could one day provider with the lifestyle. She'd become accustomed to meaning Ted with his humble middleclass brutes had everything to prove being with Diane meant becoming the kind of man she wanted him to be and her expectations began to compound compound. The pressures Ted already put on himself it only inflamed his insecurity when Diane Graduated From College in Nineteen eighteen sixty eight. She returned home to California the anxiety. Ted Harbert about whether or not he was good enough to stay with. Diane began to devour him. They tried to make the long distance relationship work. But that's summer Diane's letters began to dwindle and her calls became less frequent. Then she didn't write at all. Ted was devastated later. He recounted very little about this time other than consuming assuming emptiness he said in there somewhere was a desire to have some sort of revenge on Diane toward the end of that summer. I'm serious I just I. It's blank I don't know what the Hell I did. In that blind spot was Ted's dark descent. His slow metamorphosis us into the killer he was fated to become and when he finally arrived there would be no turning back. When we return? Ted Bundy's composure begins to crumble revealing the murderer underneath the facade. I WANNA take a moment to say thank you to all of our listeners because of you serial killers just reached its third anniversary. Three years of serial killers. Dealers isn't possible without your support so to commemorate this incredible anniversary and your loyalty serial killers will now be airing twice a week. That's right in addition addition to the regular Monday release of serial killers. You also get a brand new episode every Thursday so mark your calendar and get ready to hear US twice a week Every Monday and Thursday and thanks again for supporting serial killers now back to the story in Nineteen Sixty eight twenty one year old Ted. Bundy found himself utterly alone. His life in a tailspin. It seemed that he'd been faded to live masquerading as something. He was not no matter how he changed himself or how desperately he wanted it he would never never be the powerful debonair man. He imagined his efforts at self improvement had led to his first girlfriend Diane Edwards but eventually she had seen him for what he truly was and then she had abandoned him. It was perhaps the most painful thing he'd ever experienced the end of Ted's relationship with Diane was the first domino to fall in his twisted metamorphosis. The next his failed plans for the future that year Ted dropped out of college records of what he did during the end of one thousand nine hundred sixty eight and nineteen. sixty-nine are unclear but some accounts report that it was during this time he learned the truth about his identity about his birth. We don't know if Louise ever intended to tell held Ted the truth that she was his mother and not his older sister but regardless of her intentions. Ted beat her to the punch. He found a copy of his birth certificate with Louise's name listed as his biological mother and the word illegitimate listed near his own before that summer. Bummer Ted knew who he was. He was the son of Salmon. Eleanor cowl he was a student at the University of Washington and he was Diane Edwards is boyfriend then over a period of just one year each of those truths crumbled. He had a true crisis of identity. According to psychiatrist and Harvard Researcher Judith Herman Trauma Dismantles the systems that help support us whether they be social cultural. Or we're economic. When traumatic events destroy these protections we are disempowered therefore the process of trauma rehabilitation requires us to rebuild these systems to restore control over our own lives for Ted Bundy? His trauma recovery fueled his second transformation Shen and he was hell bent to take back the power he felt had been taken from him in nineteen sixty nine. At twenty two years old he seemingly became determined to pull himself up by his bootstraps that fall he re enrolled at the University of Washington. You then met another woman it Elizabeth Clip for Elizabeth or. Liz had long brown hair. She was a plane softspoken woman from a Mormon German family and the single mother of a young daughter. She was Ted's on again off again girlfriend for the next six years. Ted claimed he loved his is so much that it was destabilizing yet. He felt he could never fully opened up to her instead. He simply went through the motions of companionship helping her raise her young daughter washing the dishes taking out the garbage but in reality the entire time he was with Liz. Ted was still obsessed with his first girlfriend friend Diana Edwards over the next three years. Ted Did whatever he could to make himself into the kind of Man Diane had wanted wanted even while he was with Liz. He was determined to win. Diane Back Ted threw himself into school and even to more altruistic mystic activities in nineteen seventy one at twenty two. He began volunteering at the Seattle Crisis Clinic a suicide prevention hotline ironically elite during this time Ted Bundy actually saved two lives in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy two. He graduated from the University of Washington with a degree degree in psychology and began applying to law schools. He aimed high submitting himself to Ivy League institutions at the same time he also also continued his political pursuits working for the Washington State Republican Party for the first time Ted felt he was gaining traction. He had a promising promising career. Some money and was about to enroll in law school. It had taken time. But he rebuilt himself and in Nineteen seventy-three Ted finally finally felt he was ready to win. Diane back so while on a business trip in California that summer he contacted her and asked her to dinner that night Bundy was clean. Cut quaffed and as charming as Diane remembered but he it was more mature more sure of himself. She marveled at the confident way. He ordered for them both and the prestigious law schools. He casually mentioned he'd Applied Clyde to by the end of the night. Diana's captivated by the brand new Ted Bundy and when he invited her to visit him in Seattle. She eagerly agreed all the while. Ted continued to see Liz clever. One day he would be at Liz's house eating dinner with her and her daughter the next he would be whining raining in dining Diane and staying an expensive ski resorts for months. He lived a double life. And neither Liz nor Diane was the wiser he become incredibly adept at keeping these parts of his life. Separate this ability to live two different existences simultaneously was one of Ted Bundy's most defining features. Al Carlisle the prison psychologist colleges who analyzed Ted Years later called this tendency compartmentalization Carlisle explained compartmentalization as a sectioning off off of ideas or events into specific mental frames a person keeps distinct psychological boundaries between each of these frames in order to keep keep them separate like different realities inside the same mind. Carlao went on to say these so-called compartments help protect the ability of the person to to live multiple and often opposing lifestyles which are relatively immune from detection. This came in Handy for Ted in Nineteen Nineteen seventy-three the twenty six year old seamlessly juggled his to relationships with listen Diane for the better part of a year during that time Diane fell deeply doc in love with him and Ted seemingly felt the same way he and Diane even discussed marriage and Ted introduced her as his fiance to his friends at parties parties but that winter everything changed After the holidays Ted suddenly distanced himself from Diam with no explanation. He halted any discussion about marriage plans and when she came to visit him he was irritable and antagonistic after pursuing her for six years and after a month long passionate affair Ted suddenly turned cold. Diane was heartbroken when she returned to San Francisco. She wrote to him begging for an explanation but he never wrote back. She eventually called Ted Furious and yelled at him. Why was he doing this? His reply chilled children to the bone. He said flatly. I have no idea what you mean. Then he hung up. It's possible that Ted's pursuit of Diana after all those years was nothing but a power. Move Away to hurt her in the same way that she hurt him an eye for an I if this is true and he had always intended to make her fall in love with him only to reject her it would mean. The moment was literally years in the making being a deliberate sadistic plan. However there's a possibility that Ted hadn't intended to break up with Diane? Perhaps there were other the factors that play shortly. Before the break-up his grand plans of attending a prestigious law school fell through his Ivy League. Applications things were rejected has l sat score. Didn't make the cut instead. He was forced to accept admission to the University of puget. Sound a small Mall College located in his hometown of Tacoma. Ted was devastated. He hated himself for not being better for years he dreamed of becoming a successful lawyer and in some ways it was the entire premise of as rekindled relationship with Diane without that future richer he may have felt the need to reject Diane before she learned the truth. He certainly felt a consuming sense of failure. As Ted sod his future was was dimming the goals he had pursued for more than half a decade had disappeared in a puff of smoke. And so did his self control on January Fourth Nineteen seventy-four twenty-seven-year-old. Ted took a short walk from his apartment -partment at the University of Washington to a nearby housing complex. It was a familiar troll. He'd made several times before for days. Ted had observed the buildings bottom unit from his car. He discovered four university. Students lived there three young men and their lone female roommate. Eight eighteen year old Karen sparks. Karen was a freshman at U. W. and a dancer. She had a pretty girl next door. Look with a kind face face and long dark hair. She slept in the apartments basement bedroom fairly separated from her male roommates. Just after midnight Ted. Ed quietly broke into the apartment and entered. Karen's bedroom there. Ted stood in the doorway away crowbar in hand. He approached the bed where the young woman slept peacefully her breathing steady. Ted's breath however was rapid as he watched Karen's unconscious body her dark hair splayed on the pillow. He felt his mind begin to spiral. His his blood surged through every artery. Then he slammed the crew bar into her skull once he started and he couldn't stop again and again. He bludgeoned Karen blood spattered his face and his clothes in his rage. He broke a metal rod brought from her bed frame and sexually assaulted her concussed body after he was satisfied he slipped out of her bedroom. Door it into the night the next day. Karen's roommates assumed she was sleeping in for most of the afternoon. It wasn't wasn't until seven PM. The following night that they found her unconscious lying in a pool of her own blood but miraculously she was still alive the injuries karen spark sustained that night left her with permanent brain damage and physical disabilities but but it was only the start of Ted Bundy's reign of terror. One that continued for the next four years coming up Ted Bundy commits his first documented. Kill and begins a murderous rampage that rocked the Pacific northwest. Now back to the story in January of Nineteen Seventy Four twenty-seven-year-old ted. Bundy committed his first known attack and sexual assault on eighteen year. Old Karen sparks a freshman at the university diversity of Washington Karen managed to survive the brutal attack. Ted had attempted murder and failed but it wouldn't be long. He tried again that Winter Ted was enrolled in law school at the university. The puget sound at the beginning of the semester Ted diligently attended his classes but soon his normally perfect attendance faltered. Ted began skipping class to stock young women around campus. He case their apartments observing their comings and goings while sitting in his Tan. Volkswagen in bog he also resurrected his old peeping Tom Habits. He watched beautiful coeds for hours through their bedroom windows as as they went about their nightly routines it was better than anything he could find on. TV however Ted found is next victim not by prowling the streets beats around campus but by tuning into the radio talks twenty one year old. Linda and Healy was a senior at the University of Washington. Ashington as well as the host of a popular radio show that reported the weather conditions for local ski. Slopes she was well known among snow bunnies in the Seattle area. Ted was an avid skier. He picked up the sport while dating Diane when he was trying desperately to rub elbows with his wealthier peers. While Ted's love for Diana that died his passion for skiing lived on like many skiers in the area. Ted Undoubtedly tuned into Linda's reports but eventually he was listening for more than just a friendly voice announcing the daily snow conditions. He was casing his next victim in the early morning. Hours of February first. Nineteen seventy four less than a month after breaking into Karen sparks. Basement the department. Ted broke into Linda. Healy's home. He snuck past the rooms of her four sleeping roommates and intimate has better there. She lay fast to sleep. But Ted didn't take any chances. He immediately bludgeoned her in the head knocking her unconscious. This time. Ted had the new plan. He wasn't going to murder Linda in her bedroom and risk being caught instead he abducted her with Linda out cold. Ted removed her now bloodstained nightgown and dressed her in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt he then made her her bed concealing her bloody sheets and carried her away. Where Ted took Linda next is unclear wherever it was? He raped her her and murdered her then. He left her body on the side of Taylor Mountain over thirty miles east of Seattle. It was a horrific sequence sub events the first performance of routine that Ted would repeat dozens of times but Linda. Healy's disappearance wasn't just the beginning of Ted's bloodlust. It was also the start of a massive investigation. The next morning when Linda failed to show up to the radio station to broadcast her daily isky report. Her coworkers knew there was something amiss. Linda would never just not show up to work. She was responsible girl. Bright Successful restful and well known in the community not the kind of college student to disappear into thin air. The authorities expected foul play from the very beginning beginning. When police searched Linda's bedroom they found several items missing including a few pieces of Linda's clothes and her house keys? Mysteriously the back door was also left unlocked. Something Linda's room mates insisted she had never done before. When detectives peeled back the sheets on her perfectly made a bed? They discovered a small bloodstain upon further investigation. They found Linda's blood soaked nightgown in the closet. It was clear now someone had taken Linda Healy. It was all too familiar to the Seattle. PD They had seen a crime just as brutal brutal barely a month before and only blocks away. The attempted murder of Karen sparks. Finally the police had made a connection but it would be months before the investigation would gain traction. After Linda's murder her Ted was accelerated. And around this time Liz club for his long term girlfriend noticed a distinct change in him. His mood shifted at the drop of a hat. One Minute he was in high spirits has charming as ever and in the next is is went dark. Simple arguments arguments escalated into threats and broken furniture. It was the first time had seen him skirt towards violence his sexual habits changed as well though. Liz and Ted reportedly had a tender love life up to that point. He became aggressive coercing her into anal sex and insisting they experiment Roman with bondage but handcuffs in the bedroom with Liz wasn't enough to satisfy Ted. He continued prowling the streets of Seattle hunting for his next next victim. And during the Spring and summer of nineteen seventy four. He killed half a dozen young women in quick succession. Sources vary on the time. Line of Ted Bundy's killing spree but according to author and rules book the Stranger beside me. Ted's next victims uh-huh were claimed in the following order in March Ted abducted nineteen year old. Donna Manson from Evergreen State College in Olympia. While she was on her way to a concert cert- later he confessed to decapitating her and cremating her head in lists fireplace. Her remains were never found in April. Almost almost exactly a month later Ted abducted eighteen year old. Susan Ran Court from central Washington State College in Ellensburg. As she was walking to a film film-screening he murdered her and left her body on Taylor Mountain only a couple of weeks later on May Sixth Ted expanded his hunting grounds. He murdered twenty year old. Roberta Parks a student at Oregon State University. Four hours South Seattle three weeks after he returned from Oregon Ted spent the evening with Liz and her family loses relatives had gathered to celebrate her daughter's baptism. The next it's morning everyone was in high spirits. Liz who had been feeling troubled about Ted and his recent bizarre behavior filter worries ease. She watched him mm chat with a family member laughing and it's big infectious way. He was back to his usual charming self then. Suddenly Liz watched watched as Ted's expression changed it was like witnessing a storm drift to cross a bright sky. Suddenly his face went dark and the excused himself from the table. Ted left early that night without a word of explanation the next morning he was laid to Liz's daughter's baptism. Aw Loses. Thoughts immediately flew to her greatest fear. Ted was cheating on her with another woman but the truth was so so much worse after he excused himself from Liz's Family Gathering Ted raped and murdered twenty two year. Old Brenda Ball. His fifth confirmed victim. After a night of butchery he spent the next morning at a baptism. Ted Sudden Departure Church soon became a common occurrence more than a few times. Liz Fell Asleep next to ted only to wake up in the morning to find. He disappeared in the middle. I love the night. While Liz silently kept note of Ted's strange behavior the authorities also identified disturbing trend every month a a new college age. coeds seemed to disappear into thin air and by that summer the Pacific northwest was gripped in terror. Walking around college campuses began to feel like a living horror film hitchhiking which was a popular way for young people to get around at the time stopped almost entirely entirely girls in Seattle were even advised to travel in groups and to avoid walking through alleys. Perhaps the most eerie detail of the mysterious serious disappearances was the fact that each of the missing women bore a striking resemblance to one another. Almost every single victim was young white attractive active. That had long dark hair parted down the middle. They looked like Dianne Edwards the tendency to target victims who have a particular appearance or who resemble amble someone. A killer knows isn't uncommon. These shared characteristics between victims are referred to as a victim profile and Ted Bundy's was incredibly specific while we don't know if Ted's gravitation toward young women who looked like Diane was conscious. It's doubtful that his victims resemblance blends to his first. Love was a coincidence. However Ted later denied that he deliberately sought out particular type of target instead he? He claimed that the only common denominator between his victims was that they were young and fairly attractive. But it's very likely that the strong pattern Saturn and Ted's victim profiles was born of his breakup with Diane according to Doctor. Mary Ellen O'Toole a former FBI profiler specializing and psychopathy Killers victim preference is often developed based on a combination of what victims are available accessible and desirable at the time when a killer begins their murders and for Ted Dabo Gang of Diane Edwards. Were most likely the focus of his blood lost in the winter of nineteen seventy four. When ted I began killing he was right on the heels of his second? Break up with Diane. It's very possible that at at that time Ted had an insatiable urge to keep hurting her even after unceremoniously cutting off the relationship so he presumably would have been looking for a sort sort of surrogate for Diana on whom he could inflict pain with that desire in place. Ted looked around to see who was available and accessible muscle and for Ted a law student. Who lived very near the University of Washington campus? Female College students were in high supply. Thus Tad's victim profile was born and Ted's profile was more precise than most throughout his four-year killing streak he rarely straight from murdering his victims who fell exactly in line with the characteristics he was looking for essentially Ted had type and a Seattle police took took notice but while they recognized the pattern of victims police had no leads on the killer alert himself no suspects all they could do was watch helplessly as women continue to disappear across the Pacific northwest their only hope was that the next time the Predator struck he'd make a misstep leave something behind or botch a murder attempt. Detectives knew that in order for a killer to become so careless. They I had to grow comfortable and for Ted Bundy. Murder felt all to natural by the summer of Nineteen seventy-four. Ted's transformation into a serial killer was complete elite with each and every murder. His Ego only grew and his kills became more and more brazen that July his the era gance finally outranked his own. Good Judgment Ted abducted and murdered two women on the same day in Broad Daylight Light July fourteenth nineteen seventy four was a beautiful Sunday afternoon. Noon at Lake Sammamish just east of Seattle. It was a busy day for the park. Nearly forty thousand people had come to enjoy the lakes cool waters and onto picnic on its shores but Ted Bundy had different plans. Ted arrived at the lake and Casual Beach clothing and wearing an arm arm sling. He began approaching young women explaining. He was having a hard time loading his sailboat into his car with his injured arm then he asked them if they would be willing to come to the parking lot and help him out. Many women politely declined but to agreed to help. The poor injured entered man nineteen year. Old Denise Naslund Ted second victim that day had left her friends to use the park bathrooms when she encountered this seemingly helpless Ted Undoubtedly. She realized her mistake as they approached his car. It wasn't a pickup but rather a tiny rainy. Vw Bug with no sailboat in sight but by that point far from the crowds of people at the beach it was too late. Ted's first victim that day had been a beautiful young woman. He spotted sitting on a blanket and a yellow Bikini twenty-three-year-old Janna Sant- witnesses observed a man approach Janice. They described him as handsome with an unidentifiable vaguely British accent before Janice walked off with him. They hurt Janice introduce yourself then. So did the stranger his name was. Ted Seattle's mysterious Darius coed killer had finally made a critical mistake. He'd left behind one vital clue his real name. Thanks again for tuning in to serial killers will be back Monday with part. Two of Ted Bundy will continue to track. Ted's prolific and gruesome killing spree and explore his sadistic evolution into one of America's most infamous at the medicine murderers for more information on Ted Bundy amongst the many sources we used. We found the book stranger beside me by an rule extremely helpful helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite it music but now spotify making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like serial killers for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker two stream serial killers on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers and the search bar. Several of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoy the show the best I way to help is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll we'll see you next time. Killer Week serial killers was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original executive producers. Include clued Max and Ron Cutler sound design by one Boorda with Production Assistance Byron Shapiro Carleen Madden Travis Clark and one Boorda. This episode Soda. Serial killers was written by. Alex Garland with writing assistance by Abigail. CANHAM and stars. Greg Colson and Vanessa Richardson.

Diane Back Ted Ted Bundy ted Diane Diane Ted Harbert Ted Often Ted Seattle Seattle Denise Naslund Ted Ted Furious Ted Dreamed Ted Undoubtedly Ted Years ted I University of Washington Diana Edwards Liz Ted Dabo Louise
Revisiting the Ted Bundy story on two fronts

The Frame

28:31 min | 1 year ago

Revisiting the Ted Bundy story on two fronts

"From the Mon broadcast center KPCC. This is the frame, I'm John horn on today's show Hollywood is starting to open its wallet for the long list of democratic presidential hopefuls, then where does the obsession with true crime come from filmmaker Joe Berlinger, traces it back to serial killer. Ted Bundy, bundy's trial was the first nationally televised trial and Americans for the first time, we're treated to serial murder as live entertainment for good or for bad. And we have the story of a man who went from being homeless in the nineteen eighties to becoming one of today's most prolific composers in television. All that after this short break. KABC podcasts are supported by wonder brothers pictures, presenting the soulful authentic a star is born. Starring Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga and Sam Elliott in their Academy Award nominated performances for consideration in all categories. And by marvel studios. Black Panther now nominated for seven Academy Awards including costume and production. Design score original song all the stars performed by Kendrick Lamar and Ciza and best motion. Picture welcome to the frame. I'm John horn, the twenty twenty presidential election might not happen for more than a year. But democratic challengers to Donald Trump already are turning to Hollywood in search of money. And that's for good reason. Actors directors producers and studio executives have a long track record of political fund raising kick it in tens of millions of dollars to an array of national candidates in last year's midterm, elections donations and political activism really revved up the industry, and it looks like there's no slowing down ahead of twenty twenty election. Ted Johnson is a senior editor in varieties Washington bureau, where he covers politics media and entertainment, and I checked in with him today for his take on the current. Political landscape in Hollywood, we started by talking about how much money the industry raises and how influential those donations are on the campaign trail in the presidential race in twenty sixteen. We're talking about ninety million dollars that came from the entertainment industry that was overwhelmingly for Democrats in the midterm. There was a record amount that came out of the industry almost fifty minute. Nice should say the movie and TV business for Democrats, especially is a very significant portion of their fundraising haul. It's not the top one though, it tends to get kind of outsized attention in that probably has to do with the celebrity factor. But it's also a very tight knit community. So it's easier to raise money there. They have those connections. They'd be a little different from say if you're having the oil industry, which is spread out throughout the country. And I think it's fair to say that whoever the nominee is. Is he or she will not have any trouble winning the state of California? But when it comes to Hollywood, there are a lot of people who are potentially running. We saw back in two thousand eight when Barack Obama was running against Hillary Clinton in the primaries that the town itself was divided over which candidate to support. So right now, how are the candidates pitching themselves to Hollywood. And as the industry seemed to be favoring one person over another. Everyone. I've talked to says, hey, wait a minute. It's so early. I don't wanna be kinda backed into a corner to endorse one candidate over the other. We saw combo Harris. She had a fundraiser over the weekend at the home of Jeff shell the head of universe studios. And I kind of some people who attended and said, yes, I went to it. I wrote a check, but I'll probably write a check to multiple people this year. So we're not seeing this kind of early race between one to three candidates. A lot of people are kind of taking wait and see approach. One of the bigger ones is time Sabban the big media mogul behind any more from Power Rangers. He's always a big kind of kingmaker in these presidential election cycles. He says he's going to wait to see how this primary process actually rolls out. Every look back at the people who gave a lot of money during the term elections from India. You see people like studio executive Jeffrey Katzenberg, you see Netflix is Reed Hastings. See some talent agent's like, Brian Lord CA directors like Steven Spielberg giving a whole lot of money that might open doors for other donors. There's somebody want to align yourself with early on because that person is really going to bring in money from other people. Sure thing. Yeah. I mean any studio chief will help because studio cheap will be able to kinda send out word all the employee's. Hey, come to my fundraiser in a lot of people will go they may not necessarily end up voting for that candidate. But hey, the Bosnians back in this person. Maybe I should at least write a check. But when it comes to specific people Jeffrey Katzenberg, Steven Spielberg have always been kind of big endorsement, get you. See the candidates come to town, even well before they declare and have conversations with them, really laid the gr-. Groundwork for presidential campaign in the hopes of getting their alternate. Endorsement is there a potential downside for a candidate who receives either industry money or celebrity endorsements and that that candidate can be painted as kind of a coastal elite whose values are out of step with mainstream America sure thing, and you're gonna see a lot of it. If the midterms are any indication of it Republicans are gonna hammer the Democrats taking Hollywood money any controversial statement that any industry figures says they'll try to link it the look at who that person has given money to and you'll see it you'll see it play out in the presidential campaign. Donald Trump when he gave his state of the union address, his twenty twenty campaigns sent out an Email to supporters and said, hey, look, the Hollywood elites are trying to keep me from doing this speech. I wasn't even sure what he was talking about. But it just tells you that they're ready to pounce on the whole idea. But it doesn't always work out at the ballot box as we saw the last midterms when they hammered that message over and over again, but Democrats still ended up winning the house is there some money for Republican candidates, if it's Donald Trump running for re election or someone else he and I think you may see Trump actually do fundraiser here in Los Angeles as he did back in twenty sixteen. There's not a whole lot of names within the industry who have come out in favor of Donald Trump. And as his presidency has become more divisive. I'd be willing to bet that those who kind of privately support Trump will be even more reticent this next time around to make that publicly known a good example is Antonio Sabado junior. He spoke at the Republican convention in favor of. Donald Trump and afterwards, he says that he really kinda got blackballed by the industry, he'll be perhaps one of the few people to get out there and show his support for Trump. But I think it's going to be few and far between Ted Johnson is a senior editor in varieties Washington bureau, where he covers politics media and entertainment, Ted. Thanks so much for coming back on the show. Thank you. Coming up director, Joe Berlinger is so fascinated with Ted Bundy that he made not one but two projects about the serial killer. KPCC podcasts are supported by. Or brothers pictures, presenting the sole fli authentic a star is born. Starring Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga and Sam Elliot in their Academy Award nominated performances now nominated for eight Academy Awards, including best picture invested Apted screenplay. Kenneth Taran of the Los Angeles Times calls it passionate, emotional and. Fearless. An af I calls the film stellar achievement in its own universe for consideration in all categories. KPCC podcasts are supported by marvel studios, presenting Black Panther the LA times raves. Black Panther is the cinematic event of the year Vanity Fair calls it, a political and social triumph USA today. Claims. Black Panther is a rousing cultural movement and now nominated for seven Academy Awards including costume and production. Design score original song all the stars performed by country. Lamar Ciza and best motion picture him back to the frame. I'm your host John horn, if you're into true crime filmmaker Joe Berlinger has a lot to offer you right now. I is his current four-part. Netflix docu series called conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes featuring never before heard interviews with Bundy recorded while he was on death row. The series takes a deep dive into the mind of the man who brutally assaulted and murdered dozens of women and girls in addition to that. Documentary series. There's also a narrative feature film that Berlinger directed. It's called extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile. It recently premiered at the Sundance film festival and was also picked up by net. Flicks Zack Ephron plays Bundy in the narrative film, but it's told from the perspective of his longtime girlfriend, Elizabeth club for who believe bundy's claims of innocence for years, she's played by lily Collins in the movie, I spoke with Joe Berlinger about both projects while I was at Sundance and he began by explaining how Ted bundy's nineteen seventy nine murder trial change, the media's relationship to crime. We have this insatiable appetite today for true crime programming. And I trace that back to Bundy Bundy for me is kind of the big bang of true crime. And that's because it was a very interesting time in the media, basically, just a few months before the Bundy trial, many new stations were still shooting on film. So there was no such thing as kind of live coverage. And this new technology of electric gathering was just coming into its own around the time of bundy's Florida trial. This new thing called satellite technology was happening. And there was such growing interest in Bundy because he had so. Manipulated the media and Utah Colorado end in Florida before his trial started that there was great interest. Liz man on the FBI is ten most wanted list has been captured in for an suspected of dozens of sex-killings in Washington state, Idaho, Utah and Colorado. The discovery of the skeletal remains of six women twenty young women in five state eighth and strangled abduction was such an overwhelming response to covering the trial that Florida granted cameras in the courtroom for the first time in our history. And so- bundy's trial was the first nationally televised trial and for the first time Americans saw a trial of murder trial salacious sexually charged violent predator on trial for murder who was good. Looking ahead. All had all the trappings of great story and Americans for the first time, we're treated to serial murder as live entertainment and for good or for bad. A lot of your filmmaking has. Been about finding an approximation of the truth. What might have happened? What probably happened there circumstances speculation, and that's the nature of any documentary filmmakers life, and it's certainly something is central to your work as well. You've made a documentary series in a narrative film about Ted Bundy Ted is a kind of the author of his own history in a way in your documentary series head. By anybody about this? Looking for an opportunity to tell the story as best. I can you feel that you can get at the truth of Ted Bundy through both those tactics. Because even Ted Bundy doesn't seem to reveal who he really is. Well, you know, look Bundy is an unreliable narrator in many ways. So it's not it's not like we're taking his word for it and treating it as the truth. We're going beneath the surface of what he's saying contextualising it with footage of the day. So Bundy it's not that we're hanging on every word of Bundy for factual information. It's more a deep dive into the mind of the killer to understand how he operates how he thinks and the enduring lesson of Bundy, which you see, you know, every every frame of of his audiotape tells us that the enduring lesson of Bundy is that, you know, he shattered every stereotype of what a serial killer is because he was believable. Charming and he took advantage of female nurturing instincts by wearing a cast and pretending. He was in need of assistance. And when you hear these tapes you hear how diabolical and and sinister his planning was and you understand how believable he was. And again, the enduring lesson of Bundy is that the people who you least expect to violence and to do terrible things are often the people who are most capable of doing evil. Whether it's a priest who commits pedophilia and does mass the next day, or it's the CEO of polluting corporation who goes to bed at night, knowing he's killing tens of thousands of people, but I'm sure has a loving family and a great circle of friends who think this guy is terrific to a serial killer who presents himself as charming sympathetic loving to some people you talk about Ted, bundy's friends, I wanna. Talk about one of Ted bundy's closest friends, and that's grow front. Don't play him audio from your Netflix series. You begin on February sixteen seventy eight and describe telephone call us E for ten months collect my daughter, the charges, and he said that he would think custody, and I ask him where in Florida repeated over and over again, this was really going to be bad when it broke. It was not every tomorrow morning in the press is going to be really ugly. And I asked him if he was referring to the murders sorority girls in Florida. And he said that he wouldn't talk about it. He told me that he wished that. We could sit down at talk about. Things that anyone listening about why he was way he is. And I said are you telling me you're sick? And he said he was really expensive and he told me to back off who's lose. And how does she become the object of your interest in your narrative ill, Elizabeth club for was bundy's of live in girlfriend, although they maintained separate apartments, but they basically spent every night together. Liz Anne, Ted met in the fall of sixty nine out of college bar local local bar in Seattle, and she was a young mother single mother with a young child, and they hit it off and spent the next six years together before bundy's legal entanglements started in in Utah. And she stuck with him even through the Utah trials because she thought he was being wrongfully accused the idea that somebody could live with somebody who. Is a wonderful boyfriend. She thought she had found prince charming and a wonderful surrogate father to her young daughter, and no real signs that there was something wrong. And then. At night or when they're not together. He's actually committing numerous murders in the Washington area. That to me is fascinating that somebody would not understand and not see the signs because I think that's what happens in life. In many of these situations of people do terrible things woman that gets to the big idea of both of these projects, and that is the idea of narrative, the stories we tell ourselves and the story that Ted Bundy tells himself because of the Netflix series, the breakthrough for the Newsweek reporters were interviewing ham is to do what OJ Simpson did in his book. If I did it which is to speculate about what somebody like Ted Bundy might have done. And when they do that with Ted Bundy ten Bundy describes in very accurate detail what Ted Bundy actually did. But it's a fictional character in his telling kind of invented perspective, and I think his girlfriend at the same thing that there was this other person that was an. Vented story that wasn't a person that she was living with, you know, Bundy, you know, had a need to compartmentalize as many of these people do terrible things do. So I think part of it was just pure compartmentalization. The other reason when Stephen Michaud and Hugh Ainsworth were getting frustrated with their interviews with funded because he was not talking about the crimes came up with this idea of talking in the third person it like opened up the floodgates because it allowed him to not implicate himself. Because of course, bundy's the other famous thing about Bundy, which is atypical of serial killers, you know, most serial killers when they're caught loved to talk at that point in love to confess in love to talk about the details of what they did Monday almost uniquely denied his crimes, of course, prior to the trial denied his crimes, you know. Upon sentencing denied his crimes author the appeals process and only in the final days of his life. Did he start giving details and that was more of a cynical ploy to extend his life to become useful to? A lot of investigators in multiple states who wanted to close out their cases same thing with with Liz. She compartmentalized the occasional clue that she came across. Because she just couldn't imagine somebody doing these terrible crimes in that is that is human behavior. There is a natural tendency to see what we wanna see, and which is kind of the nature of the title of the movie, I think a lot of people when they read were doing a movie called extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile starring Zach Ephron that somehow we were gonna take this light romp through Bundy land anthem somehow glorify him with a lighthearted film that with this awkward title that must mean we're having a having a good time. The opposite is true by the end of the movie when John Malkovich. Utters those words, which is where the title comes from. He's being sentenced to death because of his extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile acts Bundy in the final scene. I don't wanna give too much away reveals the truth of what he did the. Audience for whom this film works. It's controversial film. I know not everyone's gonna like it. But for whom the film work's because you've taken this ride through Liz's POV, and you've almost come to root for their relationship to survive only to understand actually, what the reality of Bundy is you have this revulsion for even having any positive thoughts stores. Zach Ephron in the movie and the truth was right in front of you. Joe? Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for having me. That was Joe Berlinger his docu series conversations with killer. The Ted Bundy tapes is on Netflix. Now coming up, I prolific television composer who was once homeless. When an earthquake hits you need to drop cover and hold on. Definitely. There will be the perception that the rounds is literally waving in front of you. But what do you do after the shaking stumps? And the power is out. There roads are blocked. I'm Jake among olas host of KPCC's new podcast the big one your survival guide. I got plenty of answers for listen. An apple podcasts. KABC podcasts are supported by. Fox searchlight pictures, presenting the favorite now nominated for ten Academy Awards, including best director Yorgos length. Humous best actress Livia Coleman best. Supporting actress, Emma stone in virtual vice best original screenplay best costume design best, film editing. Best production design, best cinematography and best picture of the year for your consideration. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn who are the homeless that you pass in LA panhandling at traffic lights sleeping on the street. Trying to survive any way, they can well, they're all real people, and they all have stories about what led them to lose pretty much everything that the rest of us enjoy at last count. There were more than fifty five thousand homeless men and women and children in L A county, and if you'd passed one particular homeless man walking up and down Melrose in the late nineteen eighties. You might have unknowingly cross paths with musician who would become the composer for dozens of popular TV shows over the past thirty years frame contributor. Tim, grieving has his remarkable story. Kurt Farquhar is probably an unfamiliar name. But if you've watched any TV since nineteen eighty nine you've heard his music, he's the composer of sister sister, marisha, the king of queens and currently has multiple shows on the air, including the neighborhood and. Black lightning. He's written more music for TV than any other African American composer both under his own name and through his true music production house, but when I moved to LA in nineteen eighty six he ended up living on the street for more than a year. Everybody lives on the street isn't insane. Isn't the drug addict top to folks talked. I'm now hearing more stories about so in that year, they spent in their car if I had a car that would have been me, we're standing on Melrose avenue near the LeBron or section, right? Where Farquhar often used to sleep? Not exactly the California dream. We're doing something praising we come out here from all around the country all around the world to think that we're gonna be that one person that succeeds in music, it seems perfectly logical to me then, but it really it's a once in a lifetime ride, you know, and not everybody gets it. And a lot of things can happen on the way. I grew up on the south side of Chicago. They had created. Whole music department inside a high school, and you could take me all day, long music theory music history. You could be in the orchestra the band or choir. I had an orchestra at my disposal to write for as a child, and I'd ride this really complex the jazz pieces. Can I ask go pieces and not just get infuriated? They couldn't play. Well, what I will play it. Exactly. Right. And my an teacher said. These kids. I said, I'm a kid stock can do it. With his parents helped Farquhar studied music at a university, and Illinois and the national conservatory from using inverse. I France, then his brother Ralph suggested he come out to Los Angeles. And he and his wife were going to New York. He says, well, you can come and stay at our place. So I did. And that's how I ended up in LA with a hundred and thirty six dollars in my pocket Virk or made some music out here, but not much money, then his brother fell on hard times to and because far Gordon wanted mitt defeat or ask his parents for help yet again, I ended up homeless on the streets. Walking up and down Melrose my life at that point. Probably was a slow moving car wreck and his ended up things weren't good. And and I just didn't understand how I could be there. I remember just thinking that. Oh, this will this wouldn't last longest wouldn't last longer than a year later. You're still there as we walked around this neighborhood Furka shared his techniques for life on the street Allitt though to place, and that like I was going to rent an apartment, and I would always leave a window open and not come in. There had to be placed with carpet. And I would come in and crawl in the window at night and and and sleep on the carpet. I washed myself up in there in the morning, and and and then leave I'd always lock the window to I couldn't come back again. Just do it the one night, and it just made me feel better one of these apartments. Right. There's that on the other side of the alley there right there where I used to do. Gore's big brother Ralf had become a TV writer and in nineteen eighty nine. He was working on a new comedy called live large. He told his kid brother that he should try out for the theme song it pays. Yeah. Yeah. Pay if you can get it. And that's all I went out for it. For Gore's theme song for living large got accepted, the show didn't get picked up. But around that time, he got a small record deal. It didn't pay much really go anywhere. But he finally got an apartment. One day. He was surfing TV channels and saw that the comedy pilot for living large, airing. Thanks to a writers strike, he called up the show's producer, sir. Just wondering the show was on TV with my music due to pay for that. He said, yeah. Yeah. Sure. I said, well how much would that be? He said. Well to anti with probably make a deal about ten ten k. Two thousand dollars. Exactly. What would I get that too? I pass it got it all casted twenty. Literally, honestly toss it up to an was rolling around on my floor. Going to see what it means to go after everything to do everything and be the best that I can be at this. And that that year got better. And then the next year got better my third year, and I had a breakout year where I picked up nine different shows. And it's been from that point on has been a pretty pretty interesting ride. I haven't I haven't had I haven't had less than five shows in production in a given year since then. To be back here knowing that I was walking the streets and then to see a billboard on the same street with Sheila mine is currently number one new show on CBS quite a journey. That show the neighborhood. This story is dedicated to Beth cracker, Kurt farquars publicist who brought me this story and who died from breast cancer in September before she had a chance to hear it for the frame. I'm Tim grieving. And that's our show for today. I'm John horn. Thanks for joining us or backyard tomorrow. Hot casting is supported by FOX searchlight presenting the favorite now nominated for ten Academy Awards, including director your goes length. Actress Levin Coleman supporting actresses, Emma stone. Rachel vice original screenplay and best picture of the year. Now playing.

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Side Stories: The Ted Bundy Tapes

Last Podcast on the Left

1:11:00 hr | 1 year ago

Side Stories: The Ted Bundy Tapes

"The year is just getting started. But some of us already need a vacation does a tropical getaway sound like paradise to you then slather on some lotion make a Tropical Smoothie and climb aboard your couch. You're going on a trip with tropical cocktails a psychedelic new live action series from adult swim created by director, John Hosking and writer, Toby Harvard. The team that brought you the greasy strangler. Join prime time in MSCI too big city cops as they team up to take down criminals in a sun kissed island with the most dank of underbellies with the help of their heart as boss, captain Solomon. And a cast of demented characters. These big old tropical cops investigate hand. Gobbling mysteries track down cabbage, faced killers consult psychic crime solving toes and fight shootouts with the Torius gangs of shrimp people. And when the sun goes down slip into something more gelatinous these loose cannons play twice as hard. So. Pack your banana hammock and your quarter gun tropical cocktails premier sped ury. I at midnight on a dull swim. That's tropical cocktails premiering February first at midnight on a dull swim. No place to escape tunes. The loss casts on the left side stories. Glue cannibalism started. Doors. In the saddle back in the saddle back in the saddle there. Marcus's voice. I tell you what I'm going to ask you, boys. This because I feel like we have talked about this maybe hammered and in private, but I'd love to just put it on blast. I mean to be fair we could have been hammered and in public. This is true. But I always consider us in a cone of silence. Maybe that's bad. It is I've had to chastise you for multiple times. Right. Right. Right. I'm a natural born entertainer, and I was trained to speak from the diaphragm. But I I was at a urinal recently. And I went to an look we're going to the bathroom. You're not are you going to the bathroom or you just at a journal? No, I wasn't reviewing urinals by look and tastes using. But I walked at aathroom Alice a little Niba rated and I'm grieving sitting there. Okay. I cannot believe in using Kevin's death or whatever you're about to use it for right now. And I'm grieving, okay? I went, and I was like, you know, really pushing out some because I hate the thing where it's like you go multiple times. Whatever the, you know, our our tubes are getting worse and worse as we get older. I'm pushing him pissing. And I just sit there I had a fart, and I thought about it being like, well, I mean, I'm in the bathroom swat, just let it go. Just standing there with a bunch of people next to me. And I gotta look this guy. Like looked at me. And I was like this is the bathroom. I feel like if there is a place where I can fart openly it very here. Well, the real that's a milestone, congratulations in rear officially an old man that, you know, one of those people we would go to the bathroom and be like hope none of those are in here. You are the one that no one wants to see the urinal hope I don't have a forty old fucker sitting right next to me when I go pissed today. Yup. Rather sit by Larry Craig in an airport bathroom. Oh. So that's why that guy who looked like his name was Ralph came and clap me on the back. I was welcome to a club. You are. Welcome to it. Welcome to the show, everyone this at sides. This is. Stories. I'm Ben Kissel, Marcus parks is joining us today low we've untethered him from his desk and given his fingers a small break. Let me see are. They calloused enough. They are calloused very good continue to work. And of course, we're able grape Scotties at the end of year. And of course, Henry's browse ski. So we've got a lot of fun stories to get to the word. But I want to say philosophically. I think I'm correct, right. You can find it a urinal. Yeah. Of course, you can fire to your, and I think the I kinda like it when people fired a urinal. It's funny. It kind of gives it a little bit of levity to the whole situation. If if what is it Robert Robert Durst can confess to murdering two people at a urinal you can fart at the year. Don't even worry about it. Or is that Robert Durst? No, Robert dirt. Susan, Lynn biscuit. Durst. I give my Durst Saul confused. We have a lot of stories that involve murderous women today, just just coincidentally, but that is brave of women. And I know we've said this before when we talk about it when did Eileen worn. Awesome. We've talked about it. We did the other the female Syracuse episode being like take the helm get up. There. Sturt murdering where people if you want an equal place in society. Well, I don't think that that's the way to take that. But it's okay. That's the exact wrong lesson. They're here. All is that you look at my lessons on life. And then you do the opposite. That's how that's how we talk. That's going to do is because he listened to the show, but there's a couple of people professionally I reach out to just to see what they say. So you could do the opposite. All right. Well, first of all we're going to talk a little bit about this docu series that just Deb built on Netflix. It's only four episodes not very long, you can kind of cruise on through it Henry and I finished it yesterday. And I think Mark it's got a couple of Epsilon. It's confessions of a killer, the Ted Bundy tapes, and I just want to have a little round table here. Get everyone's thoughts number one. I've got thoughts. My number one thought is he is George W Bush. They look the exact same. Yeah. Exact- save you remember when we did the the Bundy episodes, so many years ago, but way way way before we had any fucking clue what we were doing. We ended the episode with the conspiracy that George W Bush and Ted Bundy or the exact same person. And I think what they said happened. I think someone said that they switched him back. Four right before Ted Bundy like because there was a Ted Bundy. And there was George W Bush and Ted Bundy the real Ted Bundy was like good do like he was fine. He went to all that like he was a good Republican. But I think he got I think what was like he got mixed up with the Republicans when he was working in politics. And they know it's like my God that guy looks just like a little W Bush, and so when Bush started fucking up they switched him. Yeah. And so Ted Bundy went down, but George W Bush went free. All right. Well, one got lay have residency because of Florida and one got elected to heaven. I'm going to say, I may say hill, I'm gonna see the same kind of flappy little smile and one thing that it hit me about this documentaries number one. Netflix feel is doing the very classic thing. Which is I feel like we kind of sprouted out of like as a reaction to of in some weird way the series does feel like I'm supposed to root for Bundy making him sound, very very impressive keys, the most unstoppable monster that every will ever was. And I do understand that he is obviously a very dangerous person talked about this before us probably one of the dangerous most dangerous people to ever exist. Oh at the same time the way they lauded his attention the way the lauded his ability to evade police and to do his fucking Machiavelli and deeds. It's it was like we're supposed to be horny for it. Like right opposed to watch this thing and be so scared of him and he cooked every cop that he was around where they let him take over the whole show. And I feel like Ted Bundy is in another realm right now jerk. Off at how fucking scared everyone is because of this Documenta in the things about this documentary is that it's really no it's it is an a in the serial killer docu show, wrapped up in a really pretty package because it's beautiful because it's dumb, but well done it's done the same guy who did the paradise lost trilogy. Right. These guys know what the fuck are doing. They know how to and that's why it's somewhat disappointing. How much they glorify this guy. Or how scary herb it. It really that's kind of what pisses me up because it's one of the things we've been fighting against the show for so long is, you know, making him such boogeyman like, here's here's the boogeyman be afraid of the boogeyman keep watching so you can be more frayed of the boogeyman, and it's a beautiful. It's a beautifully done documentary like all the archival footage and all the quick shots. And all the cool. It's really cool. It's very well. They tell you really well, the build up really really, well, I didn't the build up was great like, for example, when he was working on the, Dan. Evans campaign. No idea who the hell this guy is now, you know. It was interesting. I didn't realize how well liked. He was he was doing fairly well politics and his I oh, it was interesting. He built for politics kessel. Unfortunately, when you're out there in the world mixing with these politicians half of them got fucking bodies in their base and half them jerking off just thinking about if they did. I mean who knows what? I mean who knows what's happening to the bathrooms at News Corp. But it's interesting because they interviewed his buddy. And I forget his name. Now he's much older now. But it basically was the dude who got Bundy into politics, and it was the guy who had he had a beige Volkswagen that guy like she and put the whole thing seemed interesting to me because that was Donald that's that's who Ted Bundy was emulated Bundy wanted to be or at least it was like that's a person that's respected or thought that was interesting in that guy loved tell them that story is like, you know, Fundy he got the idea for the Volkswagen pugs from me. We'll all like that. Don't all fucking like that that sheriff from Tallahassee that that whole rundown of that guy is cream in his jeans trying to talk about how dangerous Ted Bundy wasn't that ma- the incredible work that I did were they just mopped up. Everybody else's fucking fuck ups essentially by the end, they did good cop work by tracking him down. But still right whatever one thing, I will say. I'll take back for also Ted. I take away from this series to Ted Bundy is not even attract enough to be an actor. He's really not that attractive. I don't know. I mean, if you look at the the do that that picture the courtroom picture where they do the sketch where they went. But when they were looking for him when he was just Ted when they were looking for him. And you realize like, oh, it's true. They all mentioned that he had one eye higher than the other and one was closer to his nose. And when you see the picture he'll just like that police sketch, and you're like, oh, wow. I can never see him the same ever again that focus up on his eyes boat being fucking on even he looks all fucked up. But you know, I will say he does have a chameleon like face, and that's why he was able to just turn his hair ever, so different. And everyone's like who is that new guy in town. And it'd be like it's the same guy from yesterday. Well, that was the big thing with Ted bundy's that all of the sketches looked wildly different from each other. You know, people that saw him on the same day even gave different sketches of Ted Bundy, right? And even. But that's the thing is that when the sketches started coming out after the girls disappeared from lake sammamish. So ma'am, ma'am, lake semantics when he kidnapped and killed two women and one day, his friends, we're looking at the sketch and the paper, and that's the thing is that like it will it said this guys named Ted Wright, here's his sketch. He drives a Volkswagen bug and all of his friends were like, oh, it's like you jed, right? And you have a full swing. Volkswagon bug looks like you. But the funny funny. So over taken by who was because I mean, really, it is he was horrified charming like he was able to fool people like over and over and over. I mean, he always able to convince people he had a he had a problem with a yacht on dry land. Yeah. But but the worst, but really the worst part of of the the docu series, and you know, and I didn't get to to see the whole thing. But Anne who is my research assistant for the book. She sent me an article last night that said that they don't talk about any of the murders in any detail whatsoever. No, the no do they jump around the time line quite a bit. Yeah. They again, but they mostly stress to be honest. How good he was it serial killing thing about the documentary that I don't I understand. But I don't particularly enjoy because it's there they are very impressed by his process, but I want again punch. When the beginning all Dhaka series shows that I mean, the reason why became zero killer like we learned with Mark Mitchell likely talking about with fucking Dr Mangla, and then it comes from very intense mediocrity comes from somebody who literally cannot do he could not make friends he couldn't fit into society. He was sort of good in politics, which does I guess take somebody who is a hollow shell of a human being yet. A lot of mediocrity. Yes. That's not a bad thing to have yet to be a Republican in the late seventies early eighties. Definitely takes a fair amount of media or at least early to mid seventies. Takes a lot of mediocrity. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, obviously he did get into law school, but it was a small school. He didn't get any of the steam that he wanted he had this version of himself that was just grander than who he was. He was really insecure about not having money, and he was such a he's lazy. And that's what he wanted to leapfrog hard work by Marion really wealthy women or he was attracted to wealthy women glassy women. But then he was be like, but I can't date them because they don't have. Enough money. So that it was this really vicious cycle of wanting to be in a class that he wasn't in. But didn't have the work ethic to then get there the right way. And speaking of you know, marrying wealthy into speaking of the the woman that was supposedly the what does it the victim prototype who was known for years as a Stephanie Brooks? I don't I didn't think anyone actually knew who she was before this like, it seems like this documentary blew the lid off this woman's fucking life and showed her name showed her picture, you know, because Stephanie Brooks was the name that and ruled used in the stranger beside me, and you know, as far as I know people use the name Stephanie Brooks for years and years and years because this woman has no there's no reason for her to be involved in this. And she's a victim. Just like. Yeah. She I mean, she I mean to hurt had bunnies. Bad ex boyfriend. You know, there's no reason I it seemed classless to me to just say like here's this woman's first and last name, and here's a picture of her. And here's all the things college. And it just tell you what it it seemed just it seemed really sleazy it is a running gag that. They also just did with the fire festival documentary where they essentially paid image. They paid fuck Jerry again to make money on the disaster that they helped produce that they then basically double made money, but then producing the the Gotcha documentary about the people that the about the crimes that they were also technically involved when involved in even with a French the Netflix at this point is like trying desperately to scoop, they want a scoop. Oh, you wanna do that kind of show, which is I don't know how to feel about it. Because I understand the want. I understand you wanna bring new information to the table. We've been reading about Ted Bundy for years. So you want to add like new things. But in the end, it's like, what are what are we losing also in that was nothing and now. It was interesting though, you know, when you just when you think about the escapes the double escapes that was fascinating seeing the jail cell where he sat salute. Absolutely out of. And when he traveled all across the country, literally one coast to the other. I mean, it was it was fascinating to remember that you could do that number one. And number two when he like I forgot that he went to Michigan. Yeah. To watch the Michigan football team to fight at the bar. Yeah. Because he was such an asshole that he does to. A fist at a bar. Well, he was also at that time in the middle of a manic episode. Oh after he because that that is that story his escape because I I don't know exactly how much they they tell because I didn't get that far into the documentary series. But that story is amazing where he breaks out of prison because he's what he did was he Doug or he cut a hole in the ceiling of his jail cell. He lost weight. He purposely started sleeping later up until like, eleven o'clock. So the jailers got trained to not bring him his food until about eleven o'clock every day. So what he would do every night is he would go in and out of the hole every single night run. Explore the jail to see what the best route will escape was. And then once he finally got out. He started hitchhiking. He got a a ride from a guy. He told the guy. Hey, my wife is going into labor in another city. I need to get to the airport right now. And how he got the air. Port Texas because since he was working as his own legal defense. He had a credit card that he could use to make long distance of Mon calls. He's used the credit card to get a plane ticket to Chicago. And by the time, the by the time anyone knew the Ted Bundy was gone he'd been gone for seventeen hours, and he was one thousand miles away. I didn't realize that the guards the it was the jail. It was the jailer the he had an apartment above the cell. Yeah. Of there were a couple of strategic mistakes would say pleding of that present he dropped down to the jailers closet because he started crawling up there. And he could hear them having dinner below him. I raised it is interesting because I don't want again, I don't wanna blow up and say that he was this devious mastermind, but there he put a lot of work. And there was a lot of blind eyes turn towards thing. It also it had quite to do with his looks. And it's part of the reason why he was allowed to do what he did. Because he just looks like a normal kind of Unasur. Coming man like, he's vaguely good looking. And he just kind of has this kind of affable. Like, I hate the smug laugh though. All time. Yes. Natalie actually, put it through you're watching together. And like, I don't, you know, like, it's it's hard because it's a it's a it's a hard thing to bring up, but it literally is the the full extent of white privilege where like to be honest, you're watching the story being like you guys aren't going to wail on him. Really, even the you really could have just he could act Beuys. It's like there's any time. It's gonna be a little bit of police abuse little bit of maybe some of excessive force I feel like maybe we could grab them and fucking like beat the shit out of a couple of times after he was wanted for a bunch of different murders and all kinds of shit. I understand. But it's like once you really realize the extent of his crimes, maybe good for somebody kinda give them a fucking whack on the side of the head. And maybe he was a little disoriented of it will be difficult for him to be constantly planning to escape. Absolutely. They could have done a little polish family reunion right there. Of course, they could have had some violence. There's no denying that. And it's interesting to that point when he got arrested the first time, it was the first time maybe the second time when he spent away from the office. After the officer chases him down the officer talks about he got into a fight with the guy. He tried to go for his gun. The officer hit him in the head with his revolver just old school. Now, it is three in the chest. Ventilated? Lay them. That's what they should have done. A can't believe how much did he got away with got away? I guess that's part of it. He just got away with so much shit. And it was like they did that big. They showed it in a third episode where the the sheriff of Tallahassee wanted to publicly indict him. And so they put him out. No handcuffs on. No hint. A press pool. Hang out, they read it Tim on live television. And he then it's like you just gave him a platform. He is loving this shit. You just kept giving him the these this this stuff you gave him all this ammo to run with. And then you gave them a recorder. And that's where he starts to remind me of BT K because she loves the sound of his own voice. Absolutely. Does. I did not the new information that I got from this though. And I'm not sure if if we covered this I obviously that was years and years ago when we spoke about this, man. But when he cross examined the man who went into the sorority house. I and Tallahassee. Yeah. The great detail that he made him go into about how the bodies were placed on the bite marks is a calendar of it was so eerie. Well, that's the interesting. The interesting thing about that incident. Is that Ted bundy's? Trial was one of the very first televised trials in American history. And everyone across the country watched the Ted Bundy trial, and because he was charming and because he was kind of good looking. The American tea because was TV friendly, and he also dressed TV friendly like what he'd wear those fucking like Seattle SuperSonics, sweaters war. He wore a belly shirt in one of the pictures. And because he was so TV friendly America was kind of split on this guy. Like he was at Ted Bundy was like a little popular. And they're like, well, I don't know like, wow. And really like at the end of the day the science, the what is it the tooth bite sciences kind of junk science like it's not right? It's not great. It's not really that. Good science. So people were a little apprehensively like, well, maybe maybe he didn't do it. Maybe this is just bad luck. Right after that cross examination after it was obvious that he took this guy after it was obviously he took this police officer up to ask him all these questions because he made him do all these details. Made him talk about all of his over and over and over again, and then asked no follow up questions. Right. And then just sat down because it was obvious. He just wanted to hear it. But then he had manage. To flip the whole thing to be a Knicks an expression of his horrific crimes and lay them out in front of everyone and everyone gets to witness it, and he's totally in charge. She's Maka Belling, devious pieces shit. Don't you see how evil my deeds are all it is is making them harder and harder. Yup. And he really thought he was going to get away with it. I'm firmly believed that this story also had in my opinion, other than Ted Bundy who is obviously the worst character in the story, Carol and Boone that was the woman on to under oath testified that she was just driving me insane. They ended up having a child because the the Russians officers turned his way turned his back and let them have sex. I thought they snuck come out. No, no. Ron visits Hanjour, go visa, we could actually do it. They actually could Faulk. I didn't get to the very end. They actually did it. So they had a oh that dude. It was a family picture. She had a son from another relationship. But she was so you had the first so we had to escape we had mass murder so beautiful girls being killed. Now. We have a fucking dude Machiavelli unlike like like Bundy in engagement, and then when then of course, it ends with the televised execution. It is the perfect television true crime show. I mean, this is a Ted Bundy it is a amazing story, by the way that they to like this is before like everyone was a reality show producer in their own. I mean, but you're shows that it's a it's like a strain of humankind right on want to mention how many people this reminds me of currently that are also in like, you know, in charge right now. But a part of the the people that understand intrinsically how. To get eyeballs and cameras on them in front of us is one of those guys where it's give he had if again, if he had gotten positive allegation and other realms he technically would have probably also kill people, but would have been a very successful, TV producer. I mean, it is possible. I mean, even the one thing that bothered me about this was again, they didn't focus enough on the victims the victims families and what the victims went through. They did show. What the judge said however to Bundy, and as we did talk about this. I didn't quite realize how much the judge truly loved the judge like in does absolutely smitten with Bundy. And when you talk about privileges, Henry mentioned without a doubt. Like, the fact that that judge looked at him and bin Laden was like you would have made a great lawyer. It's a shame. We didn't get to work together. He was more concerned with the waste of Ted bundy's potential all thirty six people. They're all meeting him with kid gloves there. They kept calling him special and go fuck yourself. He's not. No did that the easiest thing in the world is to it's to give into those dark impulses shit to do and you all the all couldn't get over yourselves to more. So to talk about how evil he was. But then it was fascinating. Because at the end when they show all the students that were there in Tallahassee when they finally ended up executing him that made my skin crawl a little bit too. Well, we just the the, you know, fry fry Ted spectacle that it became I do own a burn Bundy barn. You wanted one? Literally take it out of his trunk at burnt burnt body burns like I wish headed in black. Why is that? I don't wear white shirts. Got me a burn Bundy burn t shirt for what is it for my birthday this year? Because I mentioned that I wanted one back when I was writing the Bundy chapter in like June. That's funny varies. She's very very sweet with these about this information to is that it, you know, they billet as, you know, the Bundy tapes is all new information. This is based out like the book was written in nineteen Eighty-nine. It's called only living witness like these guys and the based on these tapes like this is nothing new that maybe these tapes have never been heard before. But it's on the other end, you know, it's Bundy saying shit that doesn't really matter. It doesn't just the gives, you know, new insight into it's I mean, it is a cash grab the just it is a cash crab that is meant to. I it's piggybacking on the Zach Ephron movie. Looks weird as well. Yeah, they're making a kind of like it seems like it's kind of like a comedy. It's kind of like a higher energy kind of thing where they're trying to give it some possess. What someone who saw it said that it is like a seventies rock bio-pic like with needle drops in like fat like fast cuts and shit. Like that. I don't and I don't know. And they'd better because that's the thing about both this documentary series from probably the movies. Well, I don't know. But there if they don't go into the actual murder, right? Because there's a there's a reason like we don't go into the actual murders in the details of the actual murders. Just as you know, morbid like murder Torres. Like, we're doing to show you what these guys actually do what they do. This is what they did. This is who this piece of shit is this is who these people are like it's showing people what the fuck hap what the Conroy of these things are and how buckle they're not cool. They're not sexy. Because that's the thing you watch Ted Bundy this entire you watched that documentary series, and they don't go into him sawing off ahead and throwing it into his girlfriend's puck and fern thrown in his girlfriend's fireplace. Or you don't talk about 'em put makeup on severed heads or having sex with or having sex with a corpse over a series. Like four days or possibly keeping a woman alive and raping her over and over and over again over a period of days out in the woods or the two girls after sim salmon sammamish, those two girls how we took him both to afar mouse, and he raped and killed one while he made the other one watch you don't go through any of that shit. If you don't talk about that should then yet, Ted bundy's is sexy figure came a rock and roll God raucous. It's just murder because oh, it's just murder murders five murder murders. Whatever, you know. It's a cult figure thing becomes and Billy the kid or something. Yes. It's exactly what it is that a lovable outlaw all and all of a sudden, you're in the middle of this being like are you trying to like watch in the Sears me? Like, you're trying to tell me to root for this motherfucker like supposed to act like all of this. Like, he's Robin Hood or some bullshit. Like, no, man. He's incredibly dangerous person that just happened to be a flawed enough as a human being to act. To activate that part of his mind and make it run make it like put it on the world. And of course, perfect timing. Just technology wasn't there yet. And he worked with the police departments previously. He knew the behind the scenes work. He knew how to he knew exactly how to get away with it for a long time. But absolutely that was one of the things that they definitely should have put in. They did tell the story about the woman that he kidnapped who is able to get away which is horrific, but obviously was going to get a lot worse. But yet they don't really go into that. They mentioned the necrophilia a little bit at the end of a little bit at the end part of it and the article, you know, the article that I mentioned earlier that you know, talks about it. It's by Katie Dowd. Published at San Francisco gates called Netflixing Ted Bundy documentary is almost everything that's wrong with the true crime. John rut. It's a it's a really it's a good read. I recommend. Yeah. Any any Senate over to me? But yeah, it's it's a really good reason. Yeah. The these sorts of crimes that that these people do the actual details. It's not it's not about being morbid. It's about showing right? These people actually actually fucking are. I doubt I doubt. There would be as as many girls talking about how nice Richard Ramirez is hair looks if they knew about him his carving out the eyes and putting them in a jewelry box and taking them back on the Cecil hotel and laughing later, I think it would really turn them off as the Jala toasts of recess because that's the thing. That's never actually sexy. Never no one actually misconstrued that. But again, you know, this is people are going to do what they're going to do. And people handle these news the way that the new right? You know, I don't really understand. I mean, I you know, we were looking at pictures of what the bitch from Buchenwald. Hey, I mean, you'll see is a kick and I'm not into her. Yeah. Like my like tall busty? I'm not into her. No. Yeah. You'll see that was that was Ed Giddins lady right there. That relationship just wait for the book. Honestly, I can't look because normally in a man's mind away. I could maybe just separate to Bubis from the thing. But I can't with her. So I think that makes me better. And then also I mean, even with Casey Anthony, I would have to be very hard pressed to date her very hard pressed who date her. Wow. What about what about just general like still going Greece? Just see meet-and-greet say say Hello. We're in a we're in a parallel universe. Where were you and Natalie never met, and yeah, you're on this is three years. Single Henry, and you're down in Saint Petersburg, visiting your parents and in walks. Yup. Casey, Anthony depends on what kind of Tuesday. It is. There is a him. Is there some guy just playing acoustic guitar some like some hot is slick like some some fucking early Santana. Maybe Saint Petersburg on a Tuesday every bars got a guy with an acoustic. That's what I'm saying. Yes. Yes. I'm just glad you know, J Simpson because he was at the same fucking bar that he his bars the same hotel that we stayed at for our wedding. Was that have been fun? Well, honestly, you might bump into OJ at some point. He's out and about or about to go out. All right. That's that's basically little synopsis on the Netflix series, Ted Bundy. Yeah. Remember the crimes, I would say, you know, watched the document docu series. You will pick up some stuff. That's interesting. I was interesting how he could only shed light on his crimes in the third person. You know, but it's all. It's very interesting also in the book that came thirty years ago, but at the of your visual learner like me, I like watching it. So obviously, I would still recommend the docu series. It's pretty thorough. It's just remember what you're for me. I'm I say to myself. I remember what you're watching while you're watching it. I'm watching it essentially watching it for this show, and I'm watching it because of my general interest in true crime. But it did once it slides into this area of like treating him like he's Batman than I'm checked out. No. I know I it turned into a the story of a failed lawyer, and what he would have been also. Hey, man, burst MacArthur. He fucking pleaded guilty. Eight counts this morning. So he's he's going to the Canadian slammer, which we know is human now strict that is. Oh, yeah. No putin. No Putin on Mondays are eight. But on Mondays sometimes guy. If you're good you. But normally know Putin on Mondays Putin will be served regularly in hot from through Sunday. Oh, that's nice. Bruce, Bruce MacArthur, of course, he killed eight people in Canada, mostly or all gay men. So it's a he has pleaded guilty and sentenced I didn't follow this story. Wasn't it? Mostly Middle Eastern gay men. Yes. Yes. It was a part of it is the less dead scenario part of it. They're saying that he was picked up because he looked like a very nice grandpa. And they didn't realize he was an fallen did SDSM scene. And they didn't know how to gauge all that. And then you just hit body parts and planters all over Toronto use a Landseer, very boy. Very yes. So he put body parts and the escapes that he the land commercial landscaping. No, we'll be covering him one day. Yeah. Yes. Each of the first degree murder charges. Carry an automatic life sentence meeting when they must be I guess running concurrently because he's going to be eligible for parole when he's ninety one years old of so it doesn't look like you'll be getting out. Yes. In mostly Middle Eastern men. So there you go. So anyway, that's that's a good story. He is he is away as he should be. He sixty seven years old now if you're like me, you're probably deathly afraid of Xena morphs, they are horrified and the fine folks at FOX next and d three go want to put you to the test in a new chapter in the alien franchise in alien blackout available today for your mobile device in alien blackout. You must do all that you can to stay alive while trapped aboard a crippled Wayland, you Tani space station that is carrying a deadly alien organism. You know, like the one in the movies in the scene. Amore? Definitely does not like the crew aboard this. Space station and is ready to tirelessly hunt. You and your crew down can you survive seven fear inducing levels as you take the reins as Amanda Ripley? Yes that Amanda Ripley which you may remember as Ellen Ripley's daughter guide your crew in alien blackout through increasingly challenging situations. Only using your wits and the stations bailing emergency systems, the unpredictability of both the million and her crew can spell total defeat for the entire station. If you don't keep it together. 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I forgot about your thing for snooky. Remember you yet we used to talk about Beckham the roundtable times, I've met snooky she had an entourage about eighteen people deep wasn't able to get that close very tiny. She she wrote a book about motherhood. So so we're doing fine Ashley Horning. She is twenty five years old. She's being held on a million dollar bond after Spokane police charged her with second degree murder of Christina Powell, the forty eight year old mother of her ex and the grandmother of her young daughter Zachary Gardner, told this is local news K X L Y has clicks lead news. He Horning had been dating for several weeks when he discovered she was a murder suspect, which I believe is the Michael Meyer, isn't that? So I married. An axe murderer isn't that exactly that premise from that movie? I will tell you. He had the reaction that I could totally see from the students like shoes. Good woman. Tell you obviously, it's hard. For some people to see right now. That's what I'm saying. She was she was attractive enough for him to be like, not all bad. So she's like she let me play the games into. Chicks on chill. So she's like super chill. So it's like Gus you got a murder somebody gets if it gives out your system, you will fuck a hassle me. She kinda looks like Casey Anthony away. This is like the Casey Anthony story because remember the guy that everyone said was from these boyfriend, Tony Tony Tony Lazaro was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The everyone was Casey Anthony's is like no they were just fucking getting high and plane smash brothers for like two weeks. Well for all of this shit went down. She was this woman Horning was doing a little bit more than that. She fatally shot Powell on Thursday morning before going on the run from the police court documents obtained by people magazine confirmed Gardner received a Facebook message from Horning not long after Powell's killing in it. She expressed suicidal thoughts Gardner said he went to meet with Horning who is sitting on the bench about a mile from the crime scene. This is what he says he says long story short though store short picked her up because the full something was off. It was then that he said that Hornets showed him a news story about how police were searching for he Gardner says a stressful situation. And I said, we're turn you in. Agreed Gardner Gardner told the station please where she was. And so he said he said Horton was anxious depressed and wanted custody of her two children who were staying with their fathers. So she your new bro on the scene. Right. Josh you're getting used to. It's like, maybe I could like date a gas. The gushes coal average just. And then all of a sudden, you're like, she's maybe a murder suspect. The guys just the middle Bill. Well. Well, no. Paul like watched a movie on Vietnam and book and told me about it. So people can get killed do. I'll fucking now like a rose powerful shield. Trauma is I'm very Joseph really is. Notre personally that wasn't southern. She would normally be capable of or wrong to do know you've been dating her for two fucking weeks. Dude. She wanted custody of her kids from her father's nothing wrong with Avin kids out there. But my goodness gracious OBE. So apparently the gun that she used to kill this woman. She tossed it into the Spokane river in it's unclear as of Monday if horny had entered a plea of the charges she phases. Or if she has retained a lawyer who could comment on her behalf. She shot her ex's mother. Yes. In the end the grandmother of her child, so he was one. So it's you know, there's some close, I'm assuming the grandmother a lot to unpack here. I'm above whatever their relationship is. It seems like what it is that the grandmother was probably taking care of the child. This woman sounds absolutely fucking saying the grandmother was trying to have the child's best interests, raise my bane. Probably told her stay the fuck away from here allowed in this house anymore. This woman loses her fucking mind and shoots her in the face. So apparently Horning this is she was talking from prison. She says she has no memory of the alleged murderer only realized trouble, you realize what you would sit trouble. So. Yes, strange. How you black that out? Flame shooting up the side of my face nothing. Just simply can't okay? It's tuesday. What am I doing? I'm killing with Brad because he wants to be chilled. We're so we're chilling. I'm good at chilling. I'm super chill. You knows that I'm show. And then it's just Thursday. Madeline Kahn one of the greatest of all time. She realized she was in trouble when she saw social media post ins about her wanted status. So she's got some disconnect going on. And it's just sad. When we are now in society where you don't know your murderer until you see it on Twitter. It's the social media posted. So does that mean that her friends were posting as they? Thank you. Or does. She follow the local police department on Twitter, if I imagine she got a Facebook measures being like, I think. Yeah. Guilty of med. He's like. Oh my goodness. No, one should feel unsafe at home period. Fear has no place in a place like home that's been simply safe's mission from day one. You'll even see a commercial about it during the big game. This Sunday be sure to check it out. Simply safe blankets. Your whole home with protection around the clock professional monitoring mix. Sure police are on the way when you need them. The security sensors are tiny blended in with your home. So you won't notice them the verge. Call simply safe the best home security, and it's a wire cutter top pick as more than three million. Simplisafe customers already know it feels good to fear less so protect your home today. You'll get free shipping on any system. Order just visit SimpliSafe dot com slash left that SimpliSafe dot com slash left to protect your home and family today. Simplisafe dot com slash left. Okay. I like this other story. College student stabbed her best friend thirty to forty times. Now, I'm not going to say that this is indicative of sometimes the fraught relationships that women have with other women, but it seems intense because it doesn't seem a lot that made this pop off. I don't know what happened. Well, all right. So this is I don't know. If is afoot is the right adjective to us. But it's interested eight junior college student murdered her quote, unquote, because I'm going to put this in quotes. Ran an roommate by stabbing her as many as forty times with a butcher knife off campus apartment. They shared police said Lisa cutting interesting Twenty-one from Jefferson to Virginia with sound here. Making up a name, it's called Jefferson Jones. I ten. No, literally is it really is like, yeah. I'm my name is Robert from Judah for her son. Virginia via she's charged with second degree murder, which I don't even understand for the depth of fellow Radford university student, Alexa, canon, formerly of Roanoke. According to a press release from the Radford city. Police department cutting was being held in a local jail on no bond. Police responded to a nine one one call around seven forty five Thursday during the call police dispatcher said she heard someone shouting and referencing a knife. When officials arrived at the off campus apartment where the wom- resided. They saw cutting covered in blood and cutting put her arms behind her head and said arrest me to search weren't said I killed her cutting said after the police asked her what was going on. I pronounced dead at the scene. If you're an officer what's going up going? I killed her. What is going on guys? Been making some to strawberries Sunday's over your girls night, bend your Thursday. That is how like just utterly shocked the mind, assuming of a male police officer is like she's covered in blood. She says arrest me I killed her baking happening when one's going on here. At least did not reveal the motive for the killing posts on cannon. Social media pages indicate that the girls had a close relationship, I met this girl two years ago online, and somehow we ended up living across from each other for a year and this summer, she was a quivalent to my mom and Cancun an unimaginably. She still puts up with me. And now we're living together next year. A love you more Lou and everyone pray that we don't kill each other this year cannon said on Instagram. Okay. So that is the victim. That is a victim. Miss cannon there. That's what she said on Instagram. Let's pray. We don't kill each other this year a post on cannons Facebook page from July read, so incredibly. The proud of my best friend Luisa cutting for becoming Latino student alliances. President I know you're going to be amazing with everything you do love you more love you so much cutting wrote. But I also was really weird that they all of the knife emojis. Very strange very out of the out of character for so it looks like cutting doing fairly well you're in school. But maybe this has something to do with a mental break parents cutting his on it is on interim suspension at university. That's according to kaitlin Skaggs at Radford Radford university's associate vice president for university relations. This is according to the university statement from the student, Brian helpful. He said, this is a tragic moment for our campus community and the Radford family during this difficult time, we ask that you provide support to your fellow highlanders. So I guess there can be only one. That is a horrible name. That's a horrible name. I just I mean, honestly, I feel like you can feel the tension the murderous tension. When you see back and forth social media posts of two young women saying like love, you love you more, right? Does kind of feel like if you think that you love me more. I'll fucking kill you like and kind of feel that energy. Yes. The statement from the university goes on the days and months to come. We'll be we'll also be difficult as we extend our deepest sympathies as well. As our thoughts and prayers to the family and loved ones of stabbing thirty times an incredible amount of rage. I mean went that is insane. That's that's insane. Like, I wonder what what because specially in the middle of doing it like how do you like, I I'm not going to say I understand. But I can kind of see the impulse like stab or hurt. Somebody do some thing out of a crazy fucking impulse. You're you're emotional basket case, and you're kind of on edge and something happens. You get in a fight come bullshit. But how is thirty stab wounds second degree murder because it sounds like she really wants to do it. If unlike accidentally knocking somebody over a railing or some shade or row or some kind of horrible accident. I'm not sure if thirty to forty I mean, I mean, the most be some sort of mitigating factors going on here. I mean with the well, I it was with something like that. Like, I think crimes of passion things like that is second degree murder like a pop off type of thing. Like in the moment in the heat of the moment believe that's sometimes second degree murder. I mean, depending. But I degree murderers that fully premeditated. I'm going to kill you, planning it out all that sort. Easier to prove as well. Perhaps death penalty would come with. I I'm not quite sure capital murder and all that type of ship with with as far as stabbing someone like that goes as many times from what we've heard what we've read from people who've done things like that is that they keep stabbing Intel the rage runs out. And that's why they keep stabbings that it's not they don't keep stabbing. Because like I wanna kill him. They keep stabbing because the rage that they're feeling is still there, and they don't stop stabbing until the rage has abated. And then that's when you get that feeling of. Oh god. What have I done? Well, that's your Bundy. Right. When he went in. He had the he had the sorority house when frigging totally bonkers and then he killed two more different. That's well, that's different psychology though. Because that that kind of psychology is that serial killer psychology, it is a beserk remote. But it comes from a different place. Like, it comes from a like that kind of rage comes from a different place. It's more of a rage at you know, that what is it? The fuck. What do you call it? The entity. Entity entity. He wasn't the only one who had an entity. I I wanted mentioned this John Wayne gase also had an entity remember the name of his instantly. I don't even what was it called Jack Hanley yet who was a cop because you remember he was like detective. Drive around in his car. Those outfitted like a fucking cop car that was his like shadow personnel. Oh my goodness. Oh, he's the gay one. One right there. All right. Well, let's continue on with the theme of the news stories more ladies in trouble. Now, this one involves a cult leader in New Mexico. The name of this gal. She is her name is Deborah green. She she is impressive looking. I am loving this uniform, man. Well, I'm sure that you are she called herself the general, and you might say well that seems like an awful awful awfully militant name for a cult leader. Or a Christian cult leader. Well, the name of her Christian Colt was quote, aggressive Christian mission training corps, which is the most on the nose. I've ever heard for description of an aggressive. Christian cult dish. It's pretty pretty intense. It's also the aggressive Christianity missions training corpse training. The aggressive Christianity minuting. It doesn't. Missions training corps. Abbreviated ACM TC, which were they call themselves. Also known as the holy tribal nation of free love ministries or the life force team. Those are much better than ACM TC or aggressive Christian mission training corps. Real official. They like it is intense as possible. So Debra Debra grade. She was sentenced to Wednesday in district court in grants right after one of the victims gave him ocean testimony about what was happening on this compound. So the victim said emotionally, she broke me as a child to the point where I where I still today struggle with my own self confidence, myself esteem, and my sense of worth. So she actually got sentenced to the victim S District Court judge James Sanchez to give seven the seventy one year old green the maximum sentence of one hundred and eight years. So she is really she's in it. This is going to be maybe the the future for the dude of the Nexium called perhaps he's gonna look similar years behind bars as well. Well, these guys were a little bit even more serious than the next call because the next call was a little bit more about pleasing, the leader user, people that believe that they were creating a modern Christian army, and it seemed like they have because the they. They were known as generals because her her official title within the Colt was general green in the overall, we call to the back and forth, and it seems to be it's a like a Christian version of Scientology, but they were also armed. Yes. They had many concentric circles of membership. There was obviously many different ranks and the children were raised in children of God. Like quota Ryan free love society. And they also did not believe in medicine. So you say one hundred eight years this woman just seems like the she might have had a rough childhood or something. Well, children of God is the is the right comparison because green got seventy two years. This is again, Deborah agree. And she got seventy two years for three counts of child rape, two counts of kidnapping and one count of child abuse at the start of the trial. It was revealed. Green was accused of convincing her daughter to take a newborn baby from Uganda in the nineteen nineties the child. Was brought to the compound where it was physically and sexually abused. This is this woman is obviously completely disgusting. And it's in this is one of the most most agree GIS colts. I can think of when it comes to the sexual nature. That's led by a woman is is that is that unique. I'll tell you what man again big ups for the ladies getting in there. You gotta take up that space in there. You can't be the ones who have the be the cult leaders, man. You gotta get in there. You gotta start two sisters are doing it for themselves. But the only leader the we covered was that one chick who has that compound out there that just kind of witchy it doesn't seem like there's any sexual abuse going on in that does that that's a little different. It's much different. Yeah. There's are. There are other female cult leaders that we didn't even talked about this because we wanna do we wanna do more. Obviously, we love Kelt up. So our favorite shouldn't have face the planet. But because of the deep nature of it how much shit is involved. But there are stuff like the. The woman Silvia Moroz Merano who was co leader of a violent cult called LA Santorum worked. Called the Saint death teams to be they're involved in the cartels. And they do quite a bit of human sacrifices to their God of death to help protect their various drug dealings, actually got believe Carolina covered that one on. Let's croissant. Cray. Ooh. Speak Spanish gave bed that shit is particularly fucking awful. Yes. It's really brutal. And even if you don't speak Spanish, a checkout. What does it just last podcast network dot com? Rights, and she has the scripts in English. Yeah. All all this. Yes, you can follow along. Or if you're just interested in reading about the crimes of Latin America, there's a lot. What's there to talk about? There is a whole thing. It's pretty nuts. It's pretty nuts. There's a budget. There is Chinese cult eventually want to cover called following gong. That is supposed to be that uses dancers much like Shane Rikio till like kind of present how cool and fund their group is seems to be there's quite a bit of that actually within China seems to be there's a there's a couple of female run colts out of China, which is good for them. Yeah. I guess female run called just might not be necessarily an American thing. Because it seems like around the world, you know, there are playing because I mean well children of God. Like a lot of the higher ups. They were but there were women that were definitely involved in the sexual abuse. When you get little Ricky and all of us. Which I don't really want to think about again. But even Jonestown we talked about how important the women were thin the organizational structure of Jonestown, but it was a little bit more. Unofficial which another instinct thing about the stories the location that it's in Gallup, New Mexico. That's right. Where the old route six six six USA star. Oh, they changed it in two thousand and three though to what four nine one. I. Doesn't three but the Gallup is actually really interesting place because it sits right in the middle of four different Indian reservations. Okay. Like, you know, like Navajo Zuni there's a whole lot of different like Indian reservations. Right. So it's very interesting that they choose like specifically that place to run a weird Christian. Militant cult will perhaps the authorities weren't paying as much attention as they would have if it was located elsewhere going back to Deborah green. Judge Sanchez said about her victim a weaker person would not have survived that means you can continue on being strong. The abuse came to light last year. With authorities raided the compound in fence lake near Gallup and found eleven eleven children. Some of them were as young as four years old all of them being held against their will. So this is it's a disturbing story. I don't think we have to put on our feminists caps for this one. I'm gonna say, she's a horrible person. So we could say, yeah. So those eleven kids have been taken into into custody and God, hopefully, they can they can recover from it given the long sentence. She was given the dis. The DA's office is still deciding if it will take this case to trial, so she is going to be gone forever. But yeah, I I know where. Yeah. Snappy uniforms, though that white uniform that she has is really snappy hits interests. I'm saying it's a that's one good thing again to a call you make your own uniforms and everybody gets to be part of a team that you're immediately in charge of you can also do that if you get into a dance club or like if you there's so many other ways to do it. But want the uniform? Hi, guys. It's Carolina Hidalgo from last podcast network. I co hosts a weekly podcast called movie sign with the Mads with Frank of and trace Bellevue. The original mad scientists from the hit TV show mystery science theater three thousand. That's right TV's Frank, and Dr Clinton four-star along with myself spend each week discussing enthused dissecting, a movie, we've recently seen premature show is very complicated. I hope he can pay attention. We come in once a week and talk about a movie. Okay. I hope he could keep up with that pass episodes included classics, like taxi driver, the godfather and Sunset Boulevard are live recordings of the shining. Indiana Jones in temple do and close encounters of the third kind to newer releases like shape, a water hereditary, get out and Mendy. We liked some. We don't we agree. We disagree. But in the end, it's all about movies, and you the viewer and your suggestions the viewer. No, it doesn't come through that way. It's on the radio. It's on a podcast a podcast, and it's free. There's no real continuity between the episode so click on the movie episode you'd like to hear about check us out on itunes soundcloud, wherever you can find podcast or just look for us on last podcast network dot com. Under shows. Thanks, everyone. And enjoy the show. We'll do this really quick because they were running out of time. Quickly say the good news story of the week three year old boy missing and freezing weather for two days because he said he was looked after by a bear. He was actually, you know, what I want to take a little bit of a lead on this new story because I got a new story for you guys to to to refute. The bear information bring more. Nice story Marcus you'll be against the narrative the story. I don't know what it is about. You like did about false narrative of bears. If that the story of a three year old boy who said he survived two nights alone in the woods, due to the assistance of a friendly. Bear should not encourage people to seek out their own relationships with bear. Eating earth. Sign expert has warned last week. Rescuers and learnt North Carolina found three year old Casey Hathaway crying, but safe entangled in a patch of thorny bushes. Having been missing in a wooded area and freezing conditions for two nights. Casey told police survived due to the presence of a black bear which kept him company. Why would the boy make it up easily three years old? That's exactly what a bear is a three year old. Three year olds every day. Have you heard of three year old end venue? Team in Hebron fruit and then a rabbit, Gabe. He was an authority Bush who will extorting Bush's bears, and I'm going to say to refute you, Mr. Marcus brianna Hathaway. This is the boy's aunt. She says he said he hung out with a bear for two days, and she wrote on Facebook God sent him a friend to keep him safe. God is good Merrick owes dealing that's to I don't like I don't like fucking shoehorning her fucking evangelism. And her a few you this seemingly remarkable tale of jungle book style. Interspecies friendship was likely a product of Casey's imagination. However, according to one veteran bear expert said Chris servino Abair researcher at the university of Montana. I've never known such a thing to happen bears. Don't do that. While there's aren't friendly with people. I don't want to say he's not telling the truth. He obviously thinks he seen things. Maybe he's gotta teddy bear at home. But I've seen no evidence anything like that has ever had. Oh my God. I feel like number one. He got paid for that interview. I definitely think he's taken money on the dole is making that your money to for some reason, he doesn't want to believe this because you know, he's never been close to a bear. That's right. And he's always wanted to be desperately. So wanted to be friends with the Bayer could never bridge gap because they all funk and know that he's the fucking man. He's a cop could trust him and three I think a part of it is that he feels he needs to say something as a member of the bear science community. This kid is the future Jane Goodall for. Bayer. I don't know if you really want to bear whispered if you want to know about the the behaviors bears and how bears react humans now difficult. It is really trade. A bear you read this book called dancing bear. There about dancing bears in Russia bears are quite the particular animal will I ready Facebook post, quote, godsend, Tim, a friend to keep them safe. God is good miracles. Do happen there. Okay. We imagine the flip of this whole storyline. No bear. But it's he did meet somebody in the forest, and it's just a man in a dirty furry. In the woods. Spiritual right. Bringing them Honey and shit. He's like the beam man is a good mean. There's just a fogging drifter escapee from a mental asylum. I don't care. It's like what is the dude from problem child? Yeah. Christopher Lloyd's character. That's Michael Richardson problems over there for Loyd was Dennis the minute. To just surprise. He's not a pedophile characters that every rap stallion boy movie. Maybe they ended in that part out. I don't know Dennis wasn't Mattis as good luck. My man, I don't think that's going to happen terrorists. I I know. Okay. Well, I'm going to believe that you know, that kid got a book published that he said he went to heaven berko Bourbeau got a book published you had a movie didn't it didn't a movie, Hank. It was. Yeah. I saw a trailer for this move in looks fucking awful, they're actors. Well, there's so many famous actors are just so many paycheck performances where these guys are just like. Just like all right. Like, the the dudes that one of the dudes that was in scrubs. Graf? Now, the other guy other guy. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a lot of people like just looking for paychecks these days doing the shitty Christian film. Well, a little kid got a fucking wakeup call. But how difficult is a write a book that certain burp? Well, yes. Absolutely. And of course, that's going to be for profit that whole story was for profit. And if you want to watch how truly horrible the inside workings of the Jellico community, I watched what was it called? Do you guys of Tammy Faye? Tammy Faye Bakker documentary narrated by rupaul it came on two thousand but Jiri full will did to Jim Bakker and Tammy Faye was brutal really interested anyway. So check that out. Okay. Lasts late. My feel good story. Although it's not really a feel good story. But I just didn't know his possible. Police say a Connecticut woman charged with driving under the influence was drunk on vanilla extract. I guess that has a bunch of booze in very alcoholic new new ideas, yada, DeLorean teas. Can make you chose like am burial. Or some bullshit. I just saw a pioneer woman make her own vanilla extract using a bottle of cheap brandy and vanilla. So this is fifty year old. Stephanie Warner Greis she was sitting in her car intersection. Her eyes were closed she fell asleep. It was four forty five of the afternoon. Rough day officers say they found several bottles of peer vanilla extract inside the car, they said they detected an odor of vanilla on her breath. And her speech was slurred. I just didn't realize that you could get that him off of vanilla extract. But why is she drinking like she's MRs Claus? That's very strange. Let's go thought it was such a funny. It could sit a weird thing to just get hammered off of remember when you were a kid we ever told that likes Norton nutmeg was a substitute for cocaine. We did it. I did it with my friends just like the little challenge with like, I think it'd salt also hurts a lot vanilla extract seventy proof seventy seventy proof little bit more than like vodka. But it's that's the thing though. Is that by volume it's much much more expensive. Right. So that's the interesting thing about this. Yeah. And maybe your body doesn't test for alcohol or something. It's got this parole or some shit. I think she just needed a drink. I don't know probably just an alcohol. I think it's just there were there was vanilla extract around. And so she grabbed it and dry. I know that's that's your theory. It's also my theory that this news story comes from the cops in candy land. And this is one of the things they see on a regular basis. All right. Well, hey, if you're going to get drunk guys, don't do it in your car. You can take whatever you want a couple of things I'm going to say to not do rubbing alcohol is not good for you know, how much you need to get it. If you're gonna relapse just get beers. And then go back into treatment. I don't know what to say no to the boys in part of it. Don't don't pure L. You don't need to do it that way. If you're gonna relapse relapse in a fun way or we're just yeah. Just take care of yourself. Don't do it behind a with no matter what you do. Don't be behind any heavy machinery or car, or motorcycle or tricycle already. Cut a bike. Because every single time. I'm worried about if I can make it I think about this inspirational, quote from Sammy Hagar, you write me up for one twenty-five poster my face want to dead or alive. Take my license. All that jive. I can't drive fifty five. Oh my goodness. All right. We will not drive. There was one dude. I remember alcohol who used to do. He was like. Yeah. The thing with rubbing alcohol. They don't let me have boots in the house. But I have that. And you can you you filter it through white bread. The white bread. All right. We'll take care of yourselves. Thank you all so much for listening to this show. Can we do have some announcements the it's general now for our for our live shows says so get out there? Check on her live shows three nineteen in Nashville. They got three twenty in cincy, needy override three twenty two Cleveland three twenty three and good old-fashioned fashioned Pittsburgh going to school and see to fam- and get wild. I cannot wait. I love those cities. It'd be nice to see the mid west. I never Cincinnati. I have never been to Cincinnati either. I know they got the chili and I'm going to say it's a little controversial. But I'm going to get a chili dog. You're going to get a chilly rowing is. I'm lost no way. But I am I wearing plastic bags and I'm rowaine. I'm sweating. Okay. For you to have some carbs. It's good for you have some could sit and do it traditionally goes traditionally since now Cincinnati chili I believe is served over spaghetti. Yes. We could sit and have a plate of that in an attempt to do show. Sure, we've done this before we got the barbecue in Kansas City. And then we did a show like. Everybody has pretty. Phelan? So check on our patriotic all so much for giving to that this week. Henry Henry, and I interviewed at detective Mike Procter, he's a former homicide detective he wrote the book on stocking. Not a how to how to stop it. So yes, check that out. Thank you, all so much. And I'm just gonna say this can't wait to see on the road and hail yourselves. Hey, live like this. Is it man because it is love like you got a pocketful of condoms and an shoes full lube, and I want you to laugh like you're a man on the way to the electric chair. Okay. Right. You got me. What was his Ted bundy's? Last words were like story for all the trouble something about all. That is something ridiculous space. Did they do? Did. They talk about the James Dobson interview. Yes, they talk about him blaming it on pornography and James Dobson. Speaking of Evangelos, Kohl's watch the Tammy Faye dot and watch the Bundy dock. They are such scum bags. They somehow blamed women for just having boobs still came all around to pornography being the problem. Oh, all right. Elliot's those Helmi pornography's never the problem for pornography is the solution. How I if pornography was the problem, then we would not have survived. The seventies. Literally all of us would be in jail right now of pornography was the problem. I have to have a pornography in general more on around rebids distant it's nice, and they are actually humans make it. They're actually very nice people from those very nice. Yeah. Thank you for being here, Marcus. Thank you. Thank you. Mark. The bare stories. This show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listen to go to last podcast network dot com.

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The Campus Killer Pt. 2: Ted Bundy

Serial Killers

49:57 min | 6 months ago

The Campus Killer Pt. 2: Ted Bundy

"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of abuse murder and sexual assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. December thirty first nineteen seventy seven another freezing morning at Garfield County jail in Glenwood Springs Colorado. As the early guard began his shift. He whistled to himself desperately trying to inject some cheer into the place. It was new years after all but as he made his way. Further down the row of cells his whistling stopped at the end of the hall was one cell he dreaded visiting Ted Bundy was nice. Enough charming even but the guard knew what he was in for murder. The thought gave him chills so as he approached Mr Bundy's cell at the end of the hall. He steeled himself but what he saw when he arrived was off. Ted's dinner tray from the night before had been left untouched. This alone was nothing unusual. Ted had lost his appetite in the last few weeks sometimes. Only taking a few bites of meals every day. It seemed he got skinnier but it wasn't the uneaten food and Ted sell. That made the guard uneasy. It was the fact that Ted wasn't up. Usually at that hour he was wide awake reading. Or clicking away in his typewriter Lagarde looked over at Ted Asleep under some blankets and called his name. Ted didn't stir then he called again louder this time still nothing. The guards mind began to race. Oh God was he dead. The guard unlock. The Sal rushed rushed inside the tiny whitewall broom when he pulled back the blanket of the bank. His heart nearly stopped underneath was nothing but a pile of books. Ted Bundy had escaped again. Hi I'm Greg Poulsen. This is serial killers. Apar- cast original every Monday. We dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. This is our second episode on Ted Bundy. One of the most notorious serial killers of the twentieth century. I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richardson Hi everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Serial killers for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar at Park asked grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do it. We love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at parkhouse network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help. Last week. We cover Ted Bundy's background from chaotic childhood to a struggle with identity and rejection as a young man we also followed his slow metamorphosis into a killer leaving nearly a dozen murders in his wake in nineteen seventy four. This week will track Ted as he continues his killing spree mutilating and murdering nearly forty young women in cities across America. It was a bloody rampage that spurred multiple arrests and trials leading him to become one of America's most infamous killers by the summer of nineteen. Seventy four Ted Bundy's transformation into a serial killer was complete for the previous six months. Twenty-seven-year-old Ted had terrorized the Pacific northwest. He began in Seattle targeting female co EDS at the University of Washington but eventually expanded his hunting crowns Ted abducted and murdered college aged women on university campuses in alleys and hitchhiking off the interstate but no matter where his victims were from. They all looked the same police and the media noted that each victim was white young attractive and had long. Brunette hair parted down the middle across the northwest. Young women started bleaching their hair blond in a desperate attempt to avoid the same fate with no reliable evidence or witnesses the Seattle PD was at a loss watching helplessly. As women continued to disappear but they still had hope a lead would emerge the killer was growing more brazen abducting multiple women in a single month. Sometimes even mere blocks away from the last crime scene. They knew it was only a matter of time before he made a critical mistake. Then finally on July Fourteenth Nineteen seventy-four. Ted's violent sexual desires got the better of his caution. He abducted both nineteen year. Old Denise Naslund and twenty-three-year-old Janice ought at links park back to back in broad daylight one of Ted's defining characteristics as a killer was his boldness. Ted was a risk taker and he prided himself in testing his limits. In fact it's possible that Ted's overwhelming desire to push the envelope obscured the possible ramifications of his actions. Almost as he believed he was immune like there was no situation he couldn't slip out of. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist but she has done a lot of research for this show thanks Greg. Many researchers and psychologists have found a link between boldness and psychopathy and according to psychological researcher Shannon J Fernandez in her article entitled prediction of a rise of antisocial personality disorder. This connection may be explained by the brain activity of adolescence risk. Taking in teenagers is caused by an undeveloped cognitive control system the areas of the brain responsible for regulating impulses and making positive long-term decisions however though most individuals see a decline in risk taking behavior as these areas of the brain mature. Psychopaths continue these tendencies well into adulthood if risk is consistently met by reward. Some adults may develop a kind of fixation on the behavior associated with that risk. And if left unchecked these tendencies may progress years and even decades past adolescence. This may lead to what Fernandez describes as desensitization and fearlessness and a need for higher level risk taking in order to achieve stimulation for Ted. This behavior most likely stemmed from his peeping Tom. Days as a teenager. For over a decade. His voyeuristic habit went unchecked. Meaning the only outcome. Ted faced was his own sexual gratification. However once the thrill of peering into women's bedroom windows no longer scratched that each. Ted's fixation gradually progressed into something. Much more violating. It's important to note however that not all risk. Taking behaviors from adolescence may develop into violence depending on the objective associated with this risk. Desensitization may have different outcomes such as drug addiction but if an individual stimulation is achieved through antisocial behavior psychopathic tendencies may be born for months. Each murder Ted committed had been met with nothing but reward. He had killed nearly a dozen women and in return he received sexual release and escaped entirely without consequence but that changed with the murders of Denise Naslund and Janice odd in July of Nineteen. Seventy four this time. His boldness had made him slip up before he abducted Janet. Ted had introduced himself to her within earshot of witnesses and now the authorities were onto him now. They had his name though. Police weren't positive that Ted was the real name of the killer. They had good reason to believe that they were on the right trail. As soon as they released the information to the public they were flooded with thousands of leads. People across Washington state called with their hunches and soon by cross-referencing which of those men also drove a ten VW bug. They narrowed down their suspects from thousands to just one hundred on. That list was twenty seven year. Old Theodore Bundy a coworker of Ted's as well as one of his former professors submitted his name to the saddle PD but when asked by police if they observed suspicious behavior outside of his similarities to the suspect neither had an answer. They were mere acquaintances with a hunch. Nothing more and on paper Ted was practically a boy scout. A well liked young law student with a SQUEAKY CLEAN RECORD. So detectives simply put his name on a list and moved on. There was only one person who could blow the lid off of Ted's facade and she wasn't talking yet for almost a year Ted's long term girlfriend. Elizabeth Clever observed that there was something strange going on with Ted. He often disappeared in the middle of the night after. They've gone to sleep and once. Liz even found a bag of unfamiliar women's clothing in his apartment but at the time she didn't think her boyfriend could be a killer. She assumed he was cheating on her. This devastated Liz so much so that she was too absorbed with his possible infidelity to realize the striking connection between her Ted and the one at Lake Sammamish. That was the case at least until he left. Ted had decided to try his hand at law school once again. This time at the University of Utah and so when Ted left Washington near the end of the summer in nineteen seventy four. Liz was left with the space to put it all together. The nighttime disappearances the clothes all of that was deeply troubling for weeks. Friends urged her to call the police at for weeks. She resisted then finally on August. Eighth Nineteen seventy-four. Liz called the SEATTLE PD. But when detectives took down her tip they simply filed it among all the others without further evidence. Matching their killer with Liz's description. Liz's lead was just another call from a jilted girlfriend and they'd had plenty of those Seattle detectives were at a loss with no promising leads. Their trail went cold and suddenly after nearly a year. Women stopped disappearing. Ted Bundy had moved onto another hunting ground. Salt Lake City as Ted drove south on the interstate toward Utah. He remembered feeling euphoric. Once again he was going to pursue his dream of becoming a lawyer and leaving. Washington was a relief. Now that the police had his first name he knew his time was limited before they caught onto him in. Utah. He be safe. He'd have a fresh start. Ted arrived in Salt Lake City and he did what he was best at he blended in. He threw himself into studies and quickly made friends that the University of Utah and though he had lives kept in touch and continued the relationship long distance he started dating another law student. Sharon our that year he was baptized and became an involved member of the Church of the Latter Day saints attending congregation meetings and Church functions but no matter what identity Ted put on. He was still a wolf in sheep's clothing and Salt Lake City had plenty of rams once again. Ted Found himself surrounded by young beautiful college students and once again his violent urges became too overwhelming to contain. In the fall of nineteen seventy four. He began his second murder spree. Sources vary on some of the details and circumstances of each of Ted's kills but according to author and rules book. The Stranger beside me next victims were claimed in the following order electoral. Second Ted broke his abstinence and murdered. Sixteen year. Old Nancy Wilcox. Her body was never found that same month on October. Eighteenth ted killed seventeen year old. Melissa Smith the daughter of a local police chief. She was last seen by her father at home before she left to meet a friend for dinner. Nine days later her body was found in the wilderness. A nylon stocking around her neck. She'd been beaten raped and strangled on Halloween less than two weeks later. Seventeen year old. Laura aim vanished. Her body was found in the wasatch mountains on Thanksgiving Day. But not all of Ted's attacks successful on November eighth nineteen seventy four. One victim escaped eighteen year old. Carol Durant was window shopping at a local mall when a man claiming to be a police officer approached her he told Carol he'd seen someone break into her car and asked her to come with him to the parking lot. She needed to verify if was missing from her vehicle. Carol was caught off guard by the seemingly normal looking man he was just wearing street clothes no uniform but she figured the officer was working undercover so she followed him outside once. Carol look through her car she grew suspicious. Nothing it seemed was missing but the officer insisted she keep looking then. He asked her to come with him back to the station defile report. Finally Carol had enough. She wasn't getting in the car with a stranger. She asked to see some kind of identification. The officer pulled out his wallet and showed her his badge embarrassed that she doubted him. She agreed to go to the station when they approach the officer's Car Carol Thought It was strange that he drove a vw bug but still tasting her earlier embarrassment. She didn't say a word. They drove off in silence away from the mall. After a moment the officer suddenly pulled the car over and parked care last him what he was doing but instead of answering. He grabbed her wrist and hand cuffed it. Carol panicked. She struggled as the man attempted to secure the secondhand cuff. But he pulled out a gun. He threatened I'll blow your head off but this only spurred caroline to action. She opened the car door and jumped out. The man followed in tackled her to the ground. Carol kept fighting. She thrashed scratched but he seemed unaffected. When Carol looked up at her attacker there was no range on his face. What she saw was far more terrifying. His eyes were blank deadened. Finally Carol broke free from his grasp and sprinted toward an approaching car. She opened the door and jumped in the back. Seat crying hysterical. She begged the driver to take her to the police station. Carol durant narrowly escaped an awful fate. But she had just fled with her life. She knew her abductors identity his face coming up. Ted Bundy continues his murderous rampage in Colorado and faces the first of many trials. We WanNa take a moment to say thank you to all of our listeners because of you serial killers just reached its third anniversary. Three years of serial killers isn't possible without your support so to commemorate this incredible anniversary and your loyalty. Serial killers will now be airing twice a week. That's right in addition to the regular Monday release of serial killers. You'll also get a brand new episode every Thursday so mark your calendar and get ready to hear US twice a week every Monday and Thursday and thanks again for supporting serial killers now back to the story in the summer of. Nineteen seventy four twenty seven year old Ted Bundy's brazen murders in the Pacific Northwest. Finally drew the attention of the Seattle PD. Ted sought out a fresh start in another state that fall. He left Washington to enroll in law school at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. But once again his dark urges followed him in less than three months he killed four more victims but one woman managed to escape. Ted had left his first living witness eighteen year old. Carol ranch in November of nineteen seventy four immediately after escaping. Carol went to the police to report her abductor. She had no name or concrete evidence. Just the handcuffs still attached to her wrist and the image of his face burned into her mind for months. Police kept their eyes open for the PERP but came up empty handed. After the day of Carroll's escape Ted tried to ignore his bloodlust and keep his head down but even still his darker impulses had gotten in the way of his education. He failed out of law school. For the Second Time Twenty eight-year-old Ted returned to Seattle in January of nineteen seventy five to visit Liz. After spending almost half a year apart she observed that Ted head seemingly changed for the better. His temperamental nature was long gone. The tender warm-hearted man. She loved had returned. Liz felt an enormous amount of guilt forever giving his name to the Seattle PD. But little did she know Ted had committed his own betrayal. He was still dating. Sharon. Our and Utah. Neither Liz nor Ted revealed their respective secrets. Instead they made plans to get married and decided to have their wedding the following winter then as quickly as he came. Ted was gone again. He told Liz he was returning to the University of Utah for his spring semester. But that was just one more lie designed to conceal his biggest secret of all instead. Ted left Washington to kill again by this point. Ted had been murdering for almost exactly one year in that time. He established a sort of pattern or cycle. He would kill in a frenzy for months consumed entirely by his blood lost then he would suddenly stop for a time as if the urge had simply passed that January when he returned to Washington and saw Liz. Ted was in this dormant period charming and collected. Who was kind of calm before the storm of his next murderous rampage? Dr Frederick Worrisome Defines these stages of criminal action as a catatonic crisis worth them. Breaks down the concept into a series of steps these include an emotional buildup that precipitates into the crime a calmness after the crime that allows the person to behave normally and finally a resolution a stage in which the individual self regulates adjusting so that the act won't be repeated however according to criminologist Donald J sears serial killers never reached this final stage of resolution. Instead they'll be caught in a perpetual cycle of build up and release as this pattern continues. Sears explains that each crime will only become more violent and more frequent than the last and for Ted. There was no doubt that he'd been consumed by this bloody feedback loop for a year. Ted At held onto a small semblance of normalcy. His dream of becoming a lawyer but by January of Nineteen seventy-five. It seemed as if Ted given that up to succumbing to his bloodlust when he left lives in Seattle he didn't go back to Utah to continuous law degree instead. He went to Colorado with only one goal in mind to rape and slaughter as many women as he could on January twelfth. Nineteen seventy five twenty eight year old. Ted made his way to the ski town of Snowmass Village. Colorado where he abducted twenty-three-year-old Karen Campbell. From the wildwood in Karen was staying at the end while on a ski vacation with her fiance that evening. The couple was relaxing by the fire in the lobby when she left to grab a magazine from their room she stepped into the hotel elevator and was never seen again. Thirty six days later her body was found naked and ravaged by animals in the surrounding mountains and soon there were more from January to July of nineteen seventy five. Ted Killed Four more victims the same epidemic of missing women that plagued the Pacific Northwest and Utah was now happening in Colorado but before Thornton could lead. The murder stopped. Ted once again moved on. It's unclear why but Ted traveled back to Salt Lake City in early July. Perhaps it was to visit his second long distance girlfriend Sharon our whatever the reason his returned to. Utah was his biggest misstep yet on August sixteenth. Nineteen seventy five at two. Am Ted was pulled over by police and his car was searched inside. They found a series of suspicious items rope. An ice pick a crowbar and handcuffs among others but to the police officer. These weren't weapons of murder. They were burglary tools. Ted was arrested but ultimately released without bail. It was only after he'd walked back into the night that the police noticed something. Chilling Ted matched. The description of a wanted suspect Carol Tarantulas kidnapper. A few days later Ted was brought back to the station to participate in a lineup of suspects for Carol to identify in preparation Ted entirely altered his appearance shaving his moustache and changing his haircut but nothing would Carol Forget. The face of her would be killer. Those thin lips at straight pointed knows it was him. Ted was arrested and charged with Carol. Garages abduction for months as he languished in jail awaiting trial. Ted Wasn't identified for a single other crime and so on February twenty third. Nineteen seventy six twenty nine year old. Ted was tried for kidnapping and nothing more at the trial. Ted was anything but defeated or remorseful. He felt exhilarated. He loved the intensity of the courtroom. He may not have finished law school but he used his own case as a way to flex his legal know how ted wanted to be as involved as possible in his defense. He did extensive research and frequently consulted with his attorney. He strutted around the courtroom confident that he would win the fight. He was wrong on March. First Ted was found guilty and sentenced to one to fifteen years in prison. For the first time he'd have to suffer the consequences of his actions and it wasn't long before his true crimes came back to haunt him eight months into a sentence. Ted was charged with Karen Campbell's murder for months detectives in Colorado had been gathering circumstantial. Evidence that place Ted at the wildwood. In at the time Karen went missing when they learned their prime suspect had already been imprisoned for kidnapping. They believed they had their man thirty year. Old Ted was extradited to Colorado that winter? Ted lost his biggest supporters Liz clip for and Sharon. Our listen Sharon had stood by Ted side throughout the Carol. Durant trial completely unaware that he was seeing both of them but with the murder charge. The two women reached their breaking points. They both left him and so with few supporters. Left and with the looming. Possibility of a death sentence. Ted took matters into his own hands on July seventh. Nineteen seventy seven. Ted attended a pretrial hearing in Aspen. Colorado that would determine whether or not he would face the death penalty that morning during a court recess. Ted asked to use the courthouses low library. This was not an unusual request. Just like he had with the Carol durant trial. Ted was adamant about researching his own defense. And so the deputies allowed Ted access alone and unshackled as the deputies waited in the hallway outside Ted. Open the libraries second story window and jumped. As soon as he hit the ground he felt. Us hearing pain. Shoot up his leg. The impact tore ligaments in his ankle. But Ted didn't stop. He scrambled to his feet and sprinted toward the surrounding mountains. By the time deputies realized he was gone he'd already disappeared into the Colorado wilderness. Ted's escape was no impulsive decision. For weeks he'd been planning his escape and he'd worn multiple layers of clothing for the occasion. He was going to need all the warmth he could get to survive freezing nights at elevated altitudes Ted was determined to go as high and as far as he could. Ted Remembered psyching himself up as he made his way into the mountains. He later told journalists. I was saying to myself again and again you must go. You must go. Don't hesitate. Don't stop. Don't stop Ted had good reason to keep running because very soon an army of Colorado ones rallied together to hunt him down. Authorities orchestrated a sweeping manhunt locals from the area even showed up to volunteer on horseback armed with rifles. Everyone it seemed wanted to track Ted Bundy down. Police set up checkpoints on the only two roads out of Aspen. Hoping they'd catch the killer as he tried to flee town but not a single vehicle contained the runaway murderer. That was because Ted left his first night on the Lam he broke into an empty hunting cabin only partway up the mountain. He spent every night after outside in the freezing woods trekking the wilderness with his injured ankle. Just steps ahead of team of search dogs but eventually a brutal rainstorm forced Ted from his hiding place in the mountains exhausted starving and nearly twenty five pounds lighter. He made his way to a small town below. Got A meal and stole a car. It was time to get out of dodge. But Ted's Road to freedom was short on July thirteenth nineteen seventy seven at two. Am Police stopped a car driving erratically and the highway inside a haggard looking man with wild eyes squinted into the beam? Of the officers flashlight. Finally they found Ted. Bundy was on the run for nearly a week before he was apprehended. When he returned to prison he flashed his signature grin for the cameras and reporters crowded around him. He cracked jokes downplaying his escape. He told them honest to God. I just got sick and tired of being locked up for the next five. And a half months Ted languished in prison awaiting his murder trial but he had no intention of setting foot in court with a twenty five pound headstart after his escape. He continued to starve himself until he was thin enough to fit through an opening in the ceiling of his cell where light fixture hadn't yet been installed in the early hours of December thirty first. Nineteen seventy seven. Ted made his move at less than one hundred forty pounds. He lifted himself through the hole in his ceiling and army crawled through the air shafts into the guards apartment located above his cell from bear. He dropped into the room and stole a set of clothes then. He walked out the front door. Ted Bundy America's most prolific serial killer escaped for the second time and slipped into the winter. Night Ted Bundy goes on a bloody road trip across America and captures the fascination of the entire country. Now back to the story from nineteen seventy four to nineteen seventy five ted bundy murdered at least seventeen women moving his killing spree from the Pacific Northwest to Utah then Colorado but when an unrelated arrest led to his first murder charge. Ted realized his time was fleeting in the months following his extradition to Colorado. He made not one but two escapes and on New Year's Eve of nineteen seventy seven thirty one year old. Ted broke out of prison and disappeared into the night that morning using money donated for his. Defense Fund Ted Securities exit out of Colorado. He hopped on a bus to the Denver airport and then took a plane to Chicago from there. He wrote a train to Ann Arbor Michigan but at the time Ted's priority wasn't hiding out. It was college football on January. Second Ted cheered on his Alma Mater University of Washington as they defeated the University of Michigan in the Rose Bowl then that night without a single sent to his name he slept in the sanctuary of a local methodist church. The next morning he stole a car Ted decided he needed to be as far away from the North West as possible so he set his sights on the opposite corner the country. He went to Florida. Ted figured that in Florida. No one would be looking for him. He wasn't wrong. Due to a lack of expedient communication between police departments the sunshine state was left in the dark after his escape and Colorado. The feds got involved in the hunt for Ted and soon he was placed on the FBI's most wanted list but even so with no computers and no central database authorities on the east coast. Had little idea that a killer from the West may be headed their way on January eighth nineteen seventy eight one week after escaping prison in Colorado. Ted Bundy drove Tallahassee specifically to the University of Florida in Tallahassee. Ted told people his name was Chris. Hagan and after stealing a handful of strangers credit cards from a local Bar. He secured himself. A room ended apartment complex next door to a sorority house Chi Omega just one week later in the early morning hours of January fifteenth. Nine thousand nine hundred seventy eight thirty one year. Old Ted embarked on his boldest crime yet. Ted watched as the sisters of the Chi Omega Sorority trickled back to the house from their dates and headed to bed by two thirty. Am when it seemed. The last girl had fallen asleep. He made his move Ted slip through the sorority houses back door carrying a small oak tree. Limb he found in the backyard as he walked quietly through the house passing portrait after portrait of Sorority Sisters Past. He could feel his heart pound. Finally he approached the room of twenty one year. Old Margaret Bowman inside Margaret was fast asleep in the span of just minutes. Ted had beaten and strangled her to death now panting and spattered with blood. Ted Could feel himself losing all control without hesitation. He moved on to his next victim. Ted Entered the room twenty year old Lisa Levy. She was strangled and clubbed to death like Margaret but tense attack on Lisa was particularly vicious as he assaulted her Ted bit. Lisa's POTTY TED had lost himself entirely in his bloodlust he sunk his teeth into her buttocks and tore away a nipple on her right breast. Ted continued to make his way down the hall of the Sorority House. Attacking two more women there that night. Twenty one year old Karen Chandler and twenty year old. Kathy Kleiner like Margaret and Lisa Karen and Kathy were unconscious during the attacks but fortunately days survived just barely when emt's later arrived at the scene. They weren't sure if they were alive or dead as he watched the girls. Beaten bodies being loaded into ambulances. Sheriff Ken Cassandra's wondered. What kind of monster could have committed a crime so heinous? But before he could ponder the answer he heard a call over his radio. Another young woman had been brutally beaten only blocks away Ted had barely made it down the street before succumbing to his murderous urges again. Ted's brazen behaviour had reached new heights. This time he'd left evidence behind when Cassandra's race to the scene he found a mask made out of women's nylons and semen stain in the woman's bedroom. Ted Gotten so absorbed in the thrill of the kill heat sabotaged himself. Criminologists commonly classify serial killers based on distinct dichotomy organized and disorganized murderers for years. Ted's crimes had placed him neatly in the former. He was a textbook organized. Killer socially competent and high functioning. He always planned his murders in advance sometimes. Elaborately and took pride in his ability to leave without a trace. But over time Ted's classification dramatically shifted according to researchers Barney Warf and Cynthia Waddell the lines between organized and disorganized killers commonly blurred when a murderer is left murder over an extended period of time warp and waddle explained that as a killers urges heighten their psychosis intensifies often changing their previously. Well established habits and for Ted. This transition happened quickly when he entered the Chi Omega House that night. Ted was an organized killer. But when he walked out he'd seemingly devolved Ted subsequent kills only became more chaotic. He was no longer following a plan. Propelled ONLY BY LUST. Ted Murdered Multiple Women in quick succession and left their bodies at the crime scene. He was spiraling out of control soon. Propelled by the chaos of the Chi. Omega murders Ted fled Tallahassee and headed southeast to the small town of Lake City Florida there he would deviate even further abandoning the one characteristic that had defined all his other murders his victim profile on February ninth. Nineteen seventy eight. Ted spotted twelve year old Kimberly Leach crossing the Basketball Court of her junior high school. The last anyone saw Kim she was climbing into a white van looking upset after murdering nearly three dozen White College age women with long dark hair. Ted had taken an entirely new type of victim. He murdered a young child. This signified an extreme turning point in Ted he was no longer the slick deceptive killer with crystal clear intent as the stress of his life on the run intensified and his inevitable. Fate in prison loomed larger. It didn't matter who he killed anymore. He simply needed to keep feeding the ravenous part of himself that urged him to continue five days later on Valentine's Day an officer notice Ted driving under the speed limit in an orange. Vw Bug following his instincts. The officer decided to pull the vehicle over instead. Ted panicked and sped off a high speed chase ensued and then a fight once. The officer managed to Corner Ted. He lashed out even reaching for the policeman's gun but the struggle was futile and Ted was arrested and searched. Officers found more than twenty one credit cards in his possession with a variety of names. They were all stolen. As was the car. Ted refused to reveal his identity. Authorities. Were baffled and suspicious. Who was this mystery man by the next day they had a hunch by tracing the VW's plates they discovered it had been stolen in Tallahassee. Near the Kyle Mega Sorority House soon. The Pensacola PD called up sheriff. Ken Cassara of Tallahassee and broke the news they believe they had the co Ed killer in their custody for days. Ken and his detectives questioned Ted. They brought him cigarettes to win him over and eventually Ted agreed to reveal his identity on one condition. He wanted a phone call. He wanted to call Liz club for. He warned her that she'd soon see really ugly stories about him on the news he was right once. The media got a hold of the story. Ted's name was everywhere at the time he was already one of the ten most wanted men in the US. The Chi Omega murders only raised his profile. But the thing that truly sealed Ted Bundy and America's collective consciousness was perhaps not the details of his crimes but his bizarre performance at his own murder trials. Following Ted's indictment the Florida State Supreme Court made an unprecedented ruling due to the high level of public interest. In the case. Ted's trial would not only be open to Florida residents. It would be the first murder trial to be nationally. Televised in June of Nineteen seventy-nine hundreds of people flooded the Miami courtroom for the first day of proceedings television crews from all fifty states and nine countries set up lights and rolled cameras and spectators many of them young women fascinated by the curiously charming murderer filled seats as thirty two year. Old Ted entered the courtroom he beamed at the crowds and winked at cameras. He had an audience. The entire nation was watching. Ever the showman. The spectators only emboldened Ted. He made impassioned speeches and crack jokes making the courtroom roar with laughter just as he did during the Carol Durant case and despite his lack of a law degree Ted led his own defense though. A team of young public defenders was assigned to his case. Ted assumed the position of lead counsel much to their annoyance multiple times. He drove his lawyers to walk out of the courtroom in frustration. Ted insisted on cross examining witnesses often undermining his own argument in the process and in the end there was little his attorneys could do to stop him. Ted was too caught up playing lawyer in the role of a lifetime but the stakes couldn't be higher for all of his showmanship. His impassioned speeches and the Ad Trix. Ted was still dealt the death penalty on July thirty. First Nineteen seventy nine in his thick southern drawl. Judge Edward Cowart sentence Ted to the electric chair but it seemed that even the judge at Ted's murder trial hadn't escaped the serial killers charms after he delivered his verdict coward lamented that he saw a bright young man's potential wasted. He stated. Take care of yourself. Young Man I say that to you sincerely. It is a tragedy for this court to see such a total waste of humanity. You're a bright young man. You'd have made a good lawyer and I'd have loved to have you practice in front of me but you went another way partner. I don't have any animosity to you. I want you to know that but even after being sentenced to death. Ted's antics were far from over in January of nineteen eighty. Ted represented himself for the last time in the murder trial of twelve year old Kimberly Leach and once again he was given the death penalty but it was nearly a decade before. He saw his sentence through in that time. Ted Bundy lingered on death row taking interviews with journalists since psychologists and as execution grew closer. He began admitting to more murders just to delay his sentence ultimately he admitted to thirty one in total but Ted could only delay fate for so long on January twenty fourth nineteen eighty nine forty two year old. Ted took his seat in the Electric Chair. In front of a large picture window behind it was a gallery of onlookers. Many of whom were witnesses at his trial in his last words to his very last audience. Ted Apologize For all the trouble he caused. Then a metal skullcap was placed on his head followed by Black. Could the executioner flip the switch and moments later at seven six? Am Ted Bundy was pronounced dead at his request? Ted was cremated and his ashes were scattered at an undisclosed location in the cascades in Washington state for after his death. Ted Bundy took his place among a class of America's most prolific serial killers but his bloody legacy lives on not because of the number of his crimes. But because of Ted himself. Americans were and still are fascinated with the good-looking charmer with a capacity to kill. It's this duality. That we fixate on the shadowy boundary between all American men and notorious murderer that he embodied so well countless movies documentaries and books both fiction and not have been inspired by his brutality and his charisma making him into a kind of macab. Celebrity Ted Bundy has become synonymous with the idea of serial killer the prototype of a psychopathic lust murderer. But as the media's love affair with Ted Rages on it begs the question. Was this what he ultimately wanted? There's no doubt Ted used his unique position at his televised trial to his benefit. But perhaps he'd always intended to make a lasting impression that would live on long past his inevitable death in Ted's last act he'd manipulated an entire nation creating a dark stain on our collective consciousness. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. He'll be back Monday with a new episode for more information on Ted Bundy amongst the many sources we used. We found the book the stranger beside me by an rule extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of serial killers and all of the podcast originals for free on spotify or anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Not only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you. Enjoy all of your favorite podcast. Originals like serial killers for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killers on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max Cutler. And his apart cast studios original executive include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Juan Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Isabel away and Joel Stein. This episode of serial killers was written by Alex Garland with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.

Ted Ted Bundy murder Ted Ted Bundy America Ted head Ted At Ted Rages Ted Securities Seattle Corner Ted Colorado Liz club Pacific northwest America Carol Durant Salt Lake City Utah officer
Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil, and Vile (2019) | Joe Beringer

The Qwipster Film Review Podcast

08:35 min | 1 year ago

Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil, and Vile (2019) | Joe Beringer

"Hello and welcome to the equator film review podcast. My name is Vince, Leo. I'm the author of the film review website, quips dot net. I have to check out over four thousand of my written reviews marine anytime quips dot net is where to go Q WIP S T R dot net. I cover all films new films everything in between. I invite you to check that out. You also get me link there to my other podcast that covers films of the nineteen eighties called around the world in eighties movies. I hope you'll check that one out as well. As far as the film on going to be reviewing today. It's a movie that debuted at Sundance earlier this year, but Netflix ended up buying it out. And now it's playing on their platform. Currently it's called extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile. It is an R rated film does have disturbing violent content, some sexuality nudity and language. The run time is hour and fifty minutes. Zack Ephron lily Collins are the main stars with supporting roles going to Haley, Joel Osmond, John. Lca vich in Kaya scored alario they're smaller. Roles going to James Hadfield, Jim Parsons and Dylan Baker, the director is Jim Berlinger and the screenplay credited to Michael where we it's a movie about at least partially the personal life of the smooth talking gas lighting sociopath named Ted Bundy Bundy gets put into the spotlight in extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile which takes its name from a quote by the judge in describing the crimes committed while delivering his sentencing during bundy's murder trial. Joe Berlinger is director he's kind of a true crime specialist documentary. And he's directed. I think he directed. The second Blair witch movie a book of shadows. But mostly he's been documentaries since and mainly true crime. He's kind of a specialist in that category. It's one of two projects that he's directed here. In the first half of twenty nineteen alone on the subject of Ted Bundy, the other being a four part Netflix documentary series called conversations with a killer. The Ted Monday tapes. That features interviews with Ted Bundy himself while he was on death row, extremely wicked as I'll call it from here on out is more of a dramatization of events. It's from the perspective of bundy's ex-fiancee in a certain regard, Elizabeth candle in the movie KENDALL is a pseudonym used by the real life woman named Liz clip for the material here is loosely taken from the memoirs of Kendall's experience with Bundy called the phantom prints my life with Ted Bundy that book was originally published back in nineteen Eighty-one. It has been long out of print for some time. In addition to the relationship between KENDALL and Bundy, the film also covers the legal troubles at Bundy would find himself in and out of in that culminates in the first nationally televised court trial in United States history. Zach Ephron here he's nicely cast in the role of the road charmer. Despite all of the file accusations that are thrown against him. He finds himself garnering a bit of a heart throb status among women who find his. Prisma and looks to be somehow irresistible even underneath that beating heart of amoral monster the acting in this film is perhaps the best asset to this otherwise unspectacular movie Efren here, he looks remarkably like Ted Bundy you provide some of his better work in the role. Good supporting current here. Also by lily Collins, as the increasingly paranoid. Liz kendall. Haley, Joel Osmond in this film as Liz concerned coworker who seems to have a thing for her Kaya Scola Dario is bundy's girlfriend later and best public cheerleader. Once he is incarcerated John Malkovich. Oh, so in the film as judge Cowart who presided over the highly publicized case for the state of Florida on television, and in the courtroom, Metallica frontman, James Hatfield also makes an acting appearance in the film. He plays a police officer named Bob Hayward Hadfield became friends with Joe Berlinger when he directed the acclaimed documentary on the band, Metallica some kind of monster the sense of period in this film. It covers mostly the years. Between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy nine. It's adequate. But I do think it often feels artificial his hair makeup. It's wardrobe. Just don't look quite right. The actors feel like they're more playing dress up than inhabiting living in characters of that time. We find this seemingly sweet courtship of the single mom. Liz KENDALL on the part of Ted Bundy, he seems like an ideal dream man when they meet, and he seems to be a very loving nurturing. Father figure to her young daughter over the years a real catch. You would think things take a bit of turn when Bundy leaves their home in Seattle to attend law school in Utah. And that's where he gets tagged as a suspect in the kidnapping murder case where he fits the description of the culprit, although the acts don't quite align enough for him to be the definitive person that they're looking for. Elizabeth does stay by his side. Bundy still continues to do things that seem to further sink though into legal troubles begins to make her wonder if he is the serial killer in disguise or. All of this is an elaborate frame job by an overzealous law enforcement community seeking to put someone away without waiting for incontrovertible evidence. That would kneel him for good Ted Bundy here seems become a media, darling. He has groupies across the country that fall under his dreamy spell by what they see on television, including Carole. Ann Boone in old friend who becomes bundy's lever and a source of strength for him at a time when Liz has decided to keep her distance. Although this is a film about a serial killer, all of the disturbing acts of violence are kept mostly off the screen, the exception of a couple of very brief flashbacks that thankfully are not particularly graphic nature. Although there is one photograph in evidence that is disturbing enough I suppose on its own I guess the point here is to put you in the mind of KENDALL who saw very few of the dark sides to Bundy that was being portrayed by the cops in the media that the economy between how he's being portrayed in the media. And the man she knows in the personal life. Don't quite jibe in that keeps her in this limbo as. How much effort she should take to stick by his side? Whether to see him try to clear his name or continue to put herself and her daughter in harm's way by having what could be a serial killer in the home as such if you'd really don't know the details of Ted bundy's story, it may have you a little bit more intrigued than your typical bureau as to whether or not he ultimately is going to be found innocent or guilty by the end, even if it is the latter. Whether he is actually being railroaded by the cops and judicial system by the end, though, I think it does become a little bit more clear, even if things remain a bit ambiguous along the way because we're supposed to put ourselves in the mind of those people who still believe in Ted Bundy, extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile. It serves less like a full bio pic and even as an exploration into the rationale of a madman. It's a little bit lacking. Here. It's more of a cataloging of certain events that transpired within the personal life of Ted Bundy. And Liz KENDALL over the years they were together and subsequently apart during that. Decade as such. I do think that it often feels like it lacks purpose beyond the reenactment of these events most of which have been on record and in documentary form in the more complete and interesting manner than it is presented ear lackluster direction. I think here without a hook here in the story to keep us real into this film beyond the performances. It's kind of a missed opportunity to make for a gripping and thoughtful peek into this world, very few whatever experience in their lifetimes. I think the movie remains at the end pretty much what Ted Bundy was to most people who met him efforts glance attractive, but ultimately superficial you hope for connection underneath the initial charm. It doesn't offer the kind of substance that will sustain your attention beyond what you envision going in. So along those lines of a bit disappointed with this film and can't quite recommend it. I'm going to give it to and a half stars out of four because of the performances it will probably keep your interest in your somebody who likes these kind of true crime bio-pics. But certainly I don't think that this is a movie that I would. Commend going out of your way to see it's on Netflix. So I guess you can kind of give it a flyer. Anyway, if you already subscribe to the service, but it's not the kind of movie I would say to shell out your dollars just to be able to see so two and a half stars is the best. I can give extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile. Thanks, everyone for listening. I hope that you enjoyed this review. If you have your own thoughts on this film. You can write to me can find my contact information at my website whip stir dot net is where to go Q W S T E R dot net.

Ted Bundy Bundy Liz kendall Netflix Joe Berlinger lily Collins John Malkovich Haley Zach Ephron murder Joel Osmond Vince Kaya James Hadfield Jim Berlinger Sundance United States Zack Ephron Efren Leo director
Introducing Radio Rental with Payne Lindsey

Atlanta Monster / Monster: The Zodiac Killer

08:29 min | 10 months ago

Introducing Radio Rental with Payne Lindsey

"Hey guys is pain and I'm here to make a very special announcement for the past because it's something brand new I've never done something like this it's my first anthology rental you're probably like what the hell is he talking about well. I promise you I think you're GonNa dig uh it was mm-hmm tweaker stuff like that we call kids bottom floor NDO cocktail little bit one morning I remember it was a school day it I don't remember if I was dreaming I just remember being woken up by this sound it was organized there was dump Pas is definitely something tapping I just didn't know what the source of it was at the time used to pull these pranks on me to scare me you know so I thought it awful thing of waking me up like how dare he so I laid because now I'm up this jackass has woken me up as move there is a person out there it is not a bird between the sliver time like okay jig is up I'm GonNa go we'll be doing this so I- whip open the blinds angrily fires the crouch down to look at the ball. He was crouched down Eggy hat she had on black pants black parents black hat aw that's sinister there was an there was something very wrong with them they looked like black orbs I was so angry at this point that this idiot had woken and it was when I kinda cuss out him and then he whispers to me sorry it gave me this really weird like feeling in I know that sounds so dramatic but there is nothing I've never experienced anything like that I'm my call him a Douche bag I don't know why remember that and then I said get the Fuck Outta here league I was freaked out that this idiot with evil is woken me up we read this book about Ted Bundy called the stranger beside me it's one of those true we tried to get women to help him and there was a quote in the book that Said Well to be asking for help like this like why wouldn't you be yelling if you needed help seemed like bullshit if there's something important here that I need crouch down in the whispers to me it was incredibly creepy this overwhelming instinct to get away from this person he kind of looked taken and I said how do spag get the fuck out of here I remember I was really just bothered by the whole thing my the baseline killer for a series of rapes and murders in two thousand five and two thousand six.

crouch Pas Ted Bundy NDO
S10: Infamous: Ted Bundy Pt. 2

Parcast Presents

49:16 min | Last month

S10: Infamous: Ted Bundy Pt. 2

"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of abuse, murder and sexual assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. December thirty, first nineteen, seventy, seven, another freezing morning at Garfield County jail in Glenwood Springs, Colorado, as the early guard, began his shift, he whistled to himself, desperately, trying to inject some cheer into the place. It was new years after all. But, as he made his way further down the row of cells, his whistling stopped at the end of the hall was one cell. He dreaded visiting. Ted. Bundy was Nice, enough charming, even, but the guard knew what he was in for murder. The thought gave him chills. So as he approached Mr Bundy's cell at the end of the hall, he steeled himself. But what he saw when he arrived was off. Ted's dinner tray from the night before had been left untouched, this alone was nothing unusual. Ted had lost his appetite in the last few weeks. Sometimes only taking a few bites of meals every day. It seemed he got an ear. But it wasn't the UNEATEN Food and Ted sell that made the guard uneasy. It was the fact that Ted wasn't up. Usually at that hour, he was wide, awake, reading or clicking away in his typewriter. The looked over at Ted, asleep under some blankets and called his name. Ted didn't stir then he called again louder this time still nothing. The guards mind began to race oh God. Was He dead? The guard unlock the SAL rushed inside the tiny whitewall broom when he pulled back the blanket of the bank. His heart nearly stopped. Underneath was nothing but a pile of books Ted Bundy had escaped again. Hi I'm Greg Poulsen. This is serial killers apar- cast original every Monday we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. This is our second episode on Ted Bundy One of the most notorious serial killers of twentieth century I'm here with my co host Vanessa Richardson. Hi everyone, you can find episodes of serial killers, and all other podcast originals for free on spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream serial killers for free on spotify just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar. At Park. Asked grateful for you, our listeners. You allow us to do it, we love. Let us know how we're doing. Reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at parkhouse network, and if you enjoyed today's episode, the best way to help us to leave a five star review wherever you're listening, it really does help last week. We cover Ted Bundy's background from chaotic childhood to a struggle with identity and rejection as a young man. We also followed his slow metamorphosis into a killer, leaving nearly a dozen murders in his wake in nineteen, seventy four. This week will track Ted as he continues his killing spree mutilating and Nearly, forty young women in cities across America it was a bloody rampage that spurred multiple arrests and trials, leading him to become one of America's most infamous killers. By the summer of Nineteen, seventy four Ted Bundy's transformation into a serial killer was complete for the previous six months, twenty-seven-year-old Ted had terrorized the Pacific northwest, he began in Seattle, targeting female co eds at the University of Washington, but eventually expanded his hunting crowns, Ted abducted and murdered college, aged women on university campuses in alleys and hitchhiking off the interstate, but no matter where his victims were from, they all looked the same police, and the media noted that each victim was white, young attractive, and had long Brunette hair parted down the middle. Across the northwest young women started bleaching their hair blond in a desperate attempt to avoid the same fate with no reliable evidence or witnesses, the Seattle PD was at a loss, watching helplessly as women continued to disappear, but they still had hope a lead would emerge. The killer was growing more brazen abducting multiple women in a single month, sometimes even mere blocks away from the last crime scene. They knew it was only a matter of time before he made a critical mistake. Then finally on July fourteenth nineteen. seventy-four Ted's violent sexual desires got the better of his caution. He abducted both nineteen year old denise, Naslund, and twenty three year old. Janice ought at links park back to back in broad daylight. One of Ted's defining characteristics as a killer was his boldness Ted was a risk taker, and he prided himself in testing his limits. In fact, it's possible that Ted's overwhelming desire to push the envelope obscured the possible ramifications of his actions. Almost as he believed, he was immune like there was no situation, he couldn't slip out of. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode, please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for this show. Thanks Greg. Many researchers and psychologists have found a link between boldness and psychopathy and according to psychological researcher Shannon J Fernandez in her article entitled prediction of a rise of antisocial personality disorder. This connection may be explained by the brain activity of adolescence risk, taking and teenagers is caused by an undeveloped cognitive control system, the areas of the brain responsible for regulating impulses and making positive long-term decisions, however, though most individuals see a decline in risk taking behavior as these areas of the brain, mature psychopaths continue these tendencies well into adulthood. If risk is consistently met by reward, some adults may develop a kind. kind of fixation on the behavior associated with that risk, and if left unchecked, these tendencies may progress years, and even decades past adolescence, this may lead to what Fernandez describes as desensitization and fearlessness and a need for higher level risk, taking in order to achieve stimulation for Ted this behavior, most likely stemmed from his peeping. Tom Days as a teenager for over a decade. His voyeuristic habit went unchecked. Meaning the only outcome Ted faced was his own sexual gratification, however, once the thrill of peering into women's bedroom windows no longer scratched that each Ted's fixation gradually progressed into something much more violating. It's important to note however that not all risk taking behaviors from adolescence may develop into violence, depending on the objective associated with this risk desensitization may have different outcomes such as drug addiction, but if an individual stimulation is achieved through antisocial behavior, psychopathic tendencies may be born. For months, each murder Ted committed had been met with nothing but reward. He had killed nearly a dozen women, and in return he received sexual release and escape entirely without consequence, but that changed with the murders of Denise Naslund and Janice Odd in July of nineteen seventy four this time his boldness had made him slip up before he abducted Janet Ted had introduced himself to her within earshot of witnesses, and now the authorities were onto him now they had his name. Though police weren't positive. That Ted was the real name of the killer. They had good reason to believe that they were on the right trail. As soon as they released the information to the public, they were flooded with thousands of leads. People across Washington state called with their hunches, and soon by cross-referencing, which of those men also drove a ten VW bug. They narrowed down their suspects from thousands to just one hundred on that list was twenty seven year old Theodore Bundy. A coworker of Ted's as well as one of his former professors submitted his name to the Saddle PD, but when asked by police, if they observed suspicious behavior outside of his similarities to the suspect, neither had an answer, they were mere acquaintances with a hunch, nothing more and on paper Ted was practically a boy scout a well liked young law student with a squeaky clean record, so detectives simply put his name on a list and moved on. There was only one person who could blow the lid off of Ted's facade and she wasn't talking yet. For, almost a year Ted's term girlfriend Elizabeth Clever observed that there was something strange going on with Ted he often disappeared in the middle of the night after they've gone to sleep and once Liz even found a bag of unfamiliar women's clothing in his apartment, but at the time. She didn't think her boyfriend could be a killer. She assumed he was cheating on her. This, devastated Liz so much so that she was too absorbed with his possible infidelity to realize the striking connection between her ted, and the one at Lake Sammamish. That was the case at least until he left. Ted had decided to try his hand law school once again this time at the University of Utah, and so when Ted left Washington near the end of the summer in Nineteen, seventy four. Liz was left with the space to put it all together. The nighttime disappearances the clothes. All of that was deeply troubling for weeks. Friends urged her to call the police and for weeks she resisted. Then finally on August. Eighth Nineteen, seventy-four Liz called the Seattle PD. But when detectives took down her tip, they simply filed it among all the others without further evidence, matching their killer with Liz's description, Liz's lead was just another call from a jilted girlfriend and they'd had plenty of those. Seattle detectives were at a loss with no promising leads. Their trail went cold, and suddenly after nearly a year, women stopped disappearing. Ted Bundy had moved onto another hunting ground. Salt Lake City. As Ted drove south on the interstate toward Utah, he remembered feeling euphoric. Once again he was going to pursue his dream of becoming a lawyer and leaving Washington was a relief now that the police had his first name, he knew his time was limited before they caught onto him in Utah. He be safe. He'd have a fresh start. Ted arrived in Salt Lake City and he did what he was best at he blended in he threw himself into studies and quickly made friends that the University of Utah, and though he had lives kept in touch and continued their relationship long distance, he started dating another law student Sharon our. That year he was baptized and became an involved member of the Church of the Latter Day saints, attending congregation meetings and church functions, but no matter what identity Ted put on, he was still a wolf in sheep's clothing and salt. Lake City had plenty of rams. Once again Ted found himself surrounded by young beautiful college students, and once again his violent urges became too overwhelming to contain in the fall of nineteen, seventy four. He began his second murder spree. Sources vary on some of the details and circumstances of each of Ted's kills, but according to author and rules book the Stranger beside me. Next victims were claimed in the following order. Electoral Second. Ted broke his abstinence and murdered sixteen year old Nancy Wilcox. Her body was never found. That same month on October, eighteenth ted killed seventeen year old Melissa Smith the daughter of a local police chief. She was last seen by her father at home before she left to meet a friend for dinner nine days later, her body was found in the wilderness, a nylon stocking around her neck. She'd been beaten raped and strangled on Halloween less than two weeks later seventeen year old Laura aim vanished. Her body was found in the wasatch mountains on Thanksgiving Day, but not all of Ted's attacks successful on November, Eighth Nineteen, seventy, four one victim escaped. Eighteen year old Carol Durant was window shopping at a local mall when a man claiming to be a police officer approached her. He told Carol. He'd seen someone break into her car and asked her to come with him to the parking lot. She needed to verify if was missing from her vehicle. Carol was caught off guard by the seemingly normal looking man. He was just wearing street clothes. No uniform, but she figured the officer was working undercover, so she followed him outside. Once Carol look through her car. She grew suspicious. Nothing it seemed was missing, but the officer insisted she keep looking then he asked her to come with him back to the station. Defile report finally. Carol had enough she wasn't getting in the car with a stranger. She asked to see some kind of identification. The officer pulled out his wallet and showed her his badge. Embarrassed that she doubted him, she agreed to go to the station. When they approach the officer's Car Carol Thought It was strange that he drove a VW bug, but still tasting her earlier embarrassment, she didn't say a word. They drove off in silence away from the mall. After a moment the officer suddenly pulled the car over and parked care last him what he was doing. Of answering, he grabbed her wrist and handcuffed it. Carol panicked she struggled as the man attempted to secure the second cuff, but he pulled out a gun. He threatened. I'll blow your head off. But this only spurred caroline to action, she opened the car door and jumped out. The man followed in tackled her to the ground Carol kept fighting. She thrashed scratched, but he seemed unaffected. When Carol looked up at her attacker. There was no range on his face. What she saw was far more terrifying. His eyes were blank deadened. Finally Carol broke free from his grasp and sprinted toward an approaching car. She opened the door and jumped in the back seat, crying hysterical. She begged the driver to take her to the police station. Carol durant narrowly escaped an awful fate, but she had just fled with her life. She knew her abductors identity his face. Coming up Ted Bundy continues his murderous rampage in Colorado and faces the first of many trials. Now back to the story. In the summer of Nineteen seventy four twenty seven year old Ted Bundy's brazen murders in the Pacific northwest finally drew the attention of the Seattle PD. Ted sought out a fresh start in another state that fall. He left Washington to enroll in law school at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. But once again his dark urges followed him. In less than three months he killed four more victims, but one woman managed to escape. Ted had left his first living witness eighteen year old Carol Garage In November of Nineteen, seventy, four immediately after escaping, Carol went to the police to report her abductor. She had no name or concrete evidence. Just the handcuffs still attached to her wrist, and the image of his face burned into her mind for months, police kept their eyes open for the PERP, but came up empty handed. After the day of Carol Escape Ted tried to ignore his bloodlust, and keep his head down, but even still his darker impulses had gotten in the way of his education, he failed out of law school for the second time. Twenty eight year old returned to Seattle in January of Nineteen, seventy, five to visit Liz after spending almost half a year apart. She observed that Ted had seemingly changed for the better. His temperamental nature was long gone. The tender warm-hearted man she loved had returned. Liz felt an enormous amount of guilt forever, giving his name to the Seattle. PD But little. Did she know Ted? Had committed his own betrayal. He was still dating Sharon our and Utah. Neither Liz nor Ted revealed their respective secrets instead they made plans to get married and decided to have their wedding the following winter. Then as quickly as he came, Ted was gone again. He told Liz he was returning to the University of Utah for his spring semester, but that was just one more lie designed to conceal his biggest secret of all instead Ted left Washington to kill again. By this point Ted had been murdering for almost exactly one year. In that time he established a sort of pattern or cycle. He would kill in a frenzy for months consumed entirely by his bloodlust, then he would suddenly stop for a time as if the urge had simply passed. That January, when he returned to Washington and saw Liz Ted was in this dormant period, charming and collected, it was kind of calm before the storm of his next murderous rampage Dr Frederick. worthen them defines these stages of criminal action as a catatonic crisis worth embrace down the concept into a series of steps, these include an emotional buildup that precipitates into the crime, a calmness after the crime that allows the. The person to behave normally and finally a resolution, a stage in which the individual self regulates adjusting so that the act won't be repeated, however, according to criminologist Donald J sears, serial killers never reached this final stage of resolution. Instead they'll be caught in a perpetual cycle of build up and release as this pattern continues, sears explains that each crime will only become more violent and more frequent than the last. And for Ted, there was no doubt that he'd been consumed by this bloody back loop. For a year Ted at held onto a small semblance of normalcy, his dream of becoming a lawyer, but by January of nineteen seventy-five, it seemed as if Ted had given that up to succumbing to his bloodlust. When he left Liz. SEATTLE HE DIDN'T GO BACK TO UTAH. To continue. Was Law laundry instead? He went to Colorado with only one goal in mind to rape and slaughter as many women as he could. On January twelfth, Nineteen seventy, five, twenty eight year old. Ted made his way to the ski town of Snowmass Village Colorado where he abducted twenty-three-year-old Karen Campbell from the wildwood in. Karen was at the INN while on a ski vacation with her fiance that evening the couple was relaxing by the fire in the lobby. When she left to grab a magazine from their room, she stepped into the hotel elevator and was never seen again. Thirty six days later, her body was found naked and ravaged by animals in the surrounding mountains, and soon there were more. From January to July of Nineteen seventy-five Ted killed four more victims. The same epidemic of missing women that plagued the Pacific Northwest and Utah was now happening in Colorado. But before authorities could find lead, the murder stopped. Ted once again moved on. It's unclear. Why but Ted traveled back to Salt Lake City in early July. Perhaps it was to visit his second long distance, girlfriend, Sharon, our whatever the reason. His Return to Utah was his biggest misstep yet. August. Sixteenth, one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, five at two am. Ted was pulled over by police and his car was searched. Inside they found a series of suspicious items. Rope an ice pick a crowbar handcuffs among others. But to the police officer, these weren't weapons of murder. They were burglary tools. Ted was arrested, but ultimately released without bail. It was only after he'd walked back into the night that the police noticed something chilling Ted match the description of a wanted suspect Carol garanges kidnapper. A few days later Ted was brought back to the station to participate in a lineup of suspects for Carol to identify in preparation. Ted entirely altered his appearance, shaving his moustache and changing his haircut, but nothing would make Carol forget the face of her would be killer. Those thin lips at straight pointed knows it was him. Ted was arrested and charged with Carol Ranch's abduction for months as he languished in jail, awaiting trial. Ted Wasn't identified for a single other crime. And so on February Twenty Third Nineteen Seventy six twenty nine year old Ted was tried for kidnapping and nothing more. At the trial Ted was anything, but defeated or remorseful. He felt exhilarated. He loved the intensity of the courtroom. He may not have finished law school, but he used his own case as a way to flex his legal know how ted wanted to be as involved as possible in his defense, he did extensive research and frequently consulted with his attorney. He started around the courtroom confident that he would win the fight. He was wrong on March first Ted was found guilty and sentenced to one to fifteen years in prison for the first time he'd have to suffer the consequences of his actions, and it wasn't long before his true crimes came back to haunt him. Eight months into a sentence Ted was charged with Karen Campbell's murder for months. Detectives in Colorado had been gathering circumstantial evidence that place Ted at the wildwood. In at the time, Karen went missing. When they learned, their prime suspect had already been imprisoned for kidnapping. They believed they had their man. Thirty year old Ted was extradited to Colorado. That Winter Ted lost his biggest supporters Liz clip for and Sharon. Our listen Sharon had stood by Ted side throughout the Carol durant trial completely unaware that he was seeing both of them. But with the murder charge, the two women reached their breaking points they both left him, and so with few supporters left, and with the looming possibility of a death sentence Ted took matters into his own hands. On July Seventh Nineteen seventy seven Ted attended a pretrial hearing in Aspen Colorado that would determine whether or not he would face the death penalty. That morning during a court recess, ted asked to use the courthouses long library. This was not an unusual request just like he had with Carol. Durant trial Ted was adamant about researching his own defense, and so the deputies allowed ted access alone and unshackled. As. The deputies waited in the hallway outside. Ted opened the libraries second. Window and jumped. As soon as he hit the ground, he felt us, hearing pain. Shoot up his lack. The impact tore ligaments in his ankle, but Ted didn't stop. He scrambled to his feet and sprinted toward the surrounding mountains by the time deputies realized he was gone, already disappeared into the Colorado wilderness. Ted's escape was no impulsive decision. For weeks he'd been planning his escape and he'd worn multiple layers of clothing for the occasion. He was going to need all the warmth. He could get to survive freezing nights at elevated altitudes. Ted was determined to go as high and as far as he could. Ted Remembered psyching himself up as he made his way into the mountains. He later told journalists I was saying to myself again and again you must go, you must go. Don't hesitate. Don't stop! Don't stop. Ted had good reason to keep running because very soon. An army of Colorado ones rallied together to hunt him down. Authorities orchestrated a sweeping manhunt. Locals from the area even showed up to volunteer on horseback armed with rifles. Everyone. It seemed wanted to track Ted Bundy. down. Police set up checkpoints on the only two roads of Aspen, hoping they'd catch the killer as he tried to flee town, but not a single vehicle contained the runaway murderer. Bat was because Ted hadn't left his first night on the Lam. He broke into an empty hunting cabin. Only partway up the mountain. He spent every night after outside in the freezing woods, trekking the wilderness with his injured ankle just steps ahead of a team of search dogs. But eventually a brutal rainstorm forest, Ted from his hiding place in the mountains exhausted starving and nearly twenty five pounds lighter, he made his way to a small town below got a meal and stole a car. It was time to get out of dodge. But Ted's Road to freedom was short on. July Thirteenth Nineteen, seventy, seven at two am. Police stopped a car driving erratically and the highway inside a haggard, looking man with wild eyes, squinted into the beam. The officers flashlight. Finally, they found Ted. Bundy was on the run for nearly a week before he was apprehended when he returned to prison, he flashed his signature grin for the cameras, and as reporters crowded around him. He cracked jokes downplaying his escape. He told them honest to God I just got sick and tired of being locked up. For the next five and a half months ted languished in prison, awaiting his murder trial, but he had no intention of setting foot in court with a twenty five pound head start after his escape, he continued to starve himself until he was thin enough to fit through an opening in the ceiling of a cell where light fixture hadn't yet been installed. In. The early hours of December thirty, first, nineteen, seventy, seven, ted made his move at less than one hundred forty pounds. He lifted himself through the hole in his ceiling, and army crawled through the air shafts into the guards apartment located above his cell from bear. He dropped into the room and stole a set of clothes then he walked out the front door. Ted Bundy America's most prolific serial killer escaped for the second time and slipped into the winter night. Ted Bundy goes on a bloody road trip across America and captures the fascination of the entire country now back to the story. From Nineteen, seventy, four to nineteen, seventy, five, ted bundy murdered at least seventeen women, moving his killing spree from the Pacific Northwest to Utah then Colorado. But when an unrelated arrest led to his first murder charge Ted realized. His time was fleeting. In. The months following his extradition to Colorado, he made not one, but two escapes, and on new, Year's eve of nine, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, seven, thirty, one year, old Ted broke out of prison and disappeared into the night. That morning, using money donated for his Defense Fund Ted Secured. His exit out of Colorado he hopped on a bus to the Denver airport and then took a plane to Chicago from there. He wrote a train to Ann Arbor, Michigan but at the time Ted's priority wasn't hiding out. It was college football. On January. Second Ted cheered on his Alma Mater University of Washington. As they defeated the University of Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Then that night without a single sent to his name, he slept in the sanctuary of a local methodist church the next morning. He stole a car. Ted decided he needed to be as far away from the North West as possible, so he set his sights on the opposite corner of the country. He went to Florida. Ted figured that in Florida. No one would be looking for him. He wasn't wrong. Due to a lack of expedient communication between police departments, the sunshine state was left in the dark. After his escape, in Colorado, the feds got involved in the hunt for Ted. And soon he was placed on the FBI's most wanted list, but even so with no computers and no central database authorities on the east coast had little idea that a killer from the West may be headed their way. On January eighth, nineteen, seventy eight one week after escaping prison in Colorado Ted, Bundy drove to Tallahassee Intel A- Hassi Ted, told people as name was Chris Hagen and after stealing a handful of strangers, credit cards from a local bar. He secured himself a room in an apartment complex next door to a sorority house Chi Omega. Just one week later in the early morning hours of January fifteenth. Nineteen seventy eight, thirty one year old Ted embarked on his boldest crime yet. Ted watched as the sisters of the Chi Omega. Sorority trickled back to the house from their dates and headed to bed by two thirty a m when it. The last girl had fallen asleep. He made his move. Ted slipped through the sorority houses back door, carrying a small oak tree limb. He found in the backyard as he walked quietly through the house, passing portrait after portrait of Sorority sisters past he could feel his heart pound finally, he approached the room of twenty one year old Margaret Bowman. Inside Margaret was fast asleep. In the span of just minutes Ted had beaten and strangled her to death. Now Panting and spattered with blood, Ted could feel himself losing all control without hesitation. He's moved on to his next victim. Ted Entered the room of twenty year old Lisa Levy. She was strangled and clubbed to death, like Margaret, but tense attack Lisa was particularly vicious S. he assaulted her Ted bit. Lisa's POTTY TED had lost himself entirely his bloodlust. He sunk his teeth into her buttocks and tore away nipple on her right breast. Ted continued to make his way down the hall of the Sorority House attacking two more women there that night, twenty one year, old Karen Chandler and twenty year old Kathy Kleiner. Like Margaret and Lisa Karen and Kathy were unconscious during the attacks, but fortunately they survived just barely when emt's later arrived at the scene. They weren't sure if they were alive or dead as he watched, the girls beaten bodies, being loaded into ambulances, share of Ken Cassandra's wondered. What kind of monster could have committed a crime so heinous? But before he could ponder the answer, he heard a call over his radio. Another young woman had been brutally beaten only blocks away Ted had barely made it down the street before succumbing to his murderous urges again. Ted's brazen behaviour had reached new heights this time he'd left evidence behind. When CASSANDRA's raced to the scene, he found a mask made out of women's nylons and a semen stain in the woman's bedroom. Ted had gotten so absorbed in the thrill of the kill heat sabotaged himself. Criminologists commonly classified serial killers on a distinct dichotomy, organized and disorganized murderers for years. Ted's crimes had placed him neatly in the former. He was a textbook, organized killer, socially competent and high functioning. He always planned his murders in advance, sometimes elaborately, and took pride in his ability to leave without a trace, but over time Ted's classification dramatically shifted according to researchers Barney Warf and Cynthia Waddell the lines between organized and disorganized killers is commonly blurred when a murderer is left to murder over an extended period of time, warp and waddle explained that as a killers urges heighten their psychosis intensifies often changing their previously well established habits. And for Ted this transition happen quickly. When he entered the Cayo Mega House that night Ted wasn't organiz killer, but when he walked out, he'd seemingly devolved. Ted Subsequent kills only became more chaotic. He was no longer following. A PLAN PROPELLED ONLY BY LUST TED murdered multiple women in quick succession, and left their bodies at the crime scene. He was spiraling out of control soon propelled by the chaos of the Chi Omega Murderers Ted fled Tallahassee and headed southeast to the small town of Lake City Florida there he would deviate even further abandoning the one characteristic that had defined all his other murders, his victim profile. On February ninth. Nineteen Seventy, eight, ted spotted twelve year old Kimberly Leach crossing the basketball court of junior high school. The last anyone saw of Kim she was climbing into a white van, looking upset after murdering nearly three dozen White College age women with long dark hair. Ted had taken an entirely new type of victim. He murdered a young child. This signified an extreme turning point in Ted. He was no longer the slick deceptive killer with a crystal, clear intent as the stress of his life on the run intensified, and his inevitable fate in prison loomed larger. It didn't matter who he killed anymore. He simply needed to keep feeding the ravenous part of himself. That urged him to continue. Five days later on Valentine's Day an officer notice. Ted Driving under the speed limit in an orange VW bug. Following his instincts, the officer decided to pull the vehicle over instead ted panicked and sped off. A high speed chase ensued, and then a fight once the officer managed to Corner Ted. He lashed out even reaching for the policeman's gun. But the struggle was futile and Ted was arrested and searched officers found more than twenty one credit cards in his possession with a variety of names. They were all stolen, and was the car Ted refused to reveal his identity authorities were baffled and suspicious. Who was this mystery man? By the next day they had a hunch by tracing the VW plates. They discovered it had been stolen in Tallahassee near the Chi Omega Sorority House. Soon the Pensacola PD called up share of Ken Cassara Sotela Hassi and broke the news. They believe they had the co Ed killer in custody. For Days Ken, add his detectives question Ted, they brought him cigarettes to win him over, and eventually Ted agreed to reveal his identity on one condition. He wanted a phone call. He wanted to call Liz club for. He warned her that she'd soon see really ugly stories about him on the news. He was right. Once the media got a hold of the story. Ted's name was everywhere at the time he was already one of the ten most wanted men in the US. The Cayo mega murders only raised his profile. But the thing that truly sealed Ted Bundy and America's collective consciousness was perhaps not the details of his crimes, but his bizarre performance at his own murder trials. Following Ted's indictment, the Florida State Supreme Court made an unprecedented ruling due to the high level of public interest. In the case, Ted's trial would not only be open to Florida residents. It would be the first murder trial to be nationally televised. In June of Nineteen seventy-nine hundreds of people flooded the Miami court room for the first day of proceedings, television crews from all fifty states and nine countries set up lights and rolled cameras and spectators, many of them young women fascinated by the curiously charming murderer filled seats. As thirty two year old Ted entered the courtroom. He beamed at the crowds and winked at cameras. He had an audience. The entire nation was watching ever the showman. The spectators emboldened Ted. He made impassioned speeches and crack jokes, making the court room roar with laughter. Just as he did during the Carol Durant case, and despite his lack of a law degree Ted led his own defense, though a team of young public defenders was assigned to his case Ted assumed the position of lead counsel much to their annoyance multiple times he drove his lawyers to walk out of the courtroom in frustration Ted. Insisted on cross, examining witnesses, often undermining his own argument in the process, and in the end there was little his attorneys could do to stop him. Ted was too caught up playing lawyer in the role of a lifetime. But the stakes couldn't be higher for all of his showmanship. His impassioned speeches at the at trix Ted was still dealt the death penalty. On July thirty, first nineteen, seventy, nine in his thick southern drawl judge Edward Coward sentenced Ted to the electric chair. But it seemed that even the judge at Ted's murder trial hadn't escaped the serial killers charms after he delivered his verdict, coward lamented that he saw a bright young man's potential wasted, he stated. Take care of yourself. Young Man I say that to you sincerely. It is a tragedy for this court to see such a total waste of humanity. You're a bright young man. You'd have made a good lawyer, and I'd have loved to have you practice in front of me, but you went another way partner I. Don't have any animosity to you. I want you to know that, but even after being sentenced to death Ted's antics were far from over in January of Nineteen Eighty Ted represented himself for the last time in the murder trial of twelve year, old Kimberly Leach, and once again he was given the death penalty, but it was nearly a decade before he saw his sentence through. In that time Ted? Bundy lingered on death row, taking interviews with journalists, psychologists, and as execution grew closer, he began admitting to more murders just to delay his sentence. Ultimately, he admitted to thirty one in total. But Ted could only delay fate for so long on January twenty, fourth, nineteen, eighty, nine, forty two year old Ted took his seat in the electric chair in front of a large picture window behind it was a gallery of onlookers, many of whom were witnesses at his trial. In his last words to his very last audience Ted Apologize. For All the trouble he caused then a metal skullcap was placed on his head, followed by a black hood. The executioner flipped the switch and moments later at seven sixteen am. Ted Bundy was pronounced dead. At his request Ted was cremated, and his ashes were scattered at an undisclosed location in the cascades in Washington, state. After his death, Ted Bundy place among class of America's most prolific serial killers. But his blood legacy lives on not because of the number of his crimes, but because of Ted himself. Americans were and still are fascinated with the good-looking charmer with a capacity to kill. It's this duality that we fixate on the shadow. We boundary between all American men and notorious murderer, but he embodied so well. Countless movies, documentaries and books both fiction, and not have been inspired by his brutality and his charisma, making him into a kind of macabre celebrity. Ted Bundy has become synonymous with the idea of a serial killer, the prototype of a psychopathic lust murderer, but as the media's love. Affair with Ted Rages on it begs the question. Was this, but he ultimately wanted. There's no doubt Ted used his unique position at his televised trial to his benefit, but perhaps he'd always intended to make a lasting impression that would live on long past his inevitable death. In Ted's last act, he'd manipulated an entire nation, creating a dark stain on our collective consciousness. Thanks again for tuning. Into serial killers, we'll be back Monday with a new episode for more information on Ted Bundy amongst the many sources we used. We found the book the stranger beside me by an rule extremely helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of serial killers, and all of the park cast originals for free on spotify or anywhere you listen to podcasts, not only this spotify already have all of your favorite music, but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like serial killers for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killers on spotify just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar. and. Don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max Cobbler. And his apar- cast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron, cutler sound design by one Boorda with production assistance by Ron, Shapiro, Carly Madden Isabel away and Joel Stein this episode of serial killers was written by Alex Garland with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and Stars Greg, Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson

Janet Ted Ted Bundy Ted murder Ted Bundy America Ted Apologize Ted Rages Ted Bundy. Liz club Ted Secured Colorado Ted Subsequent Ted Driving Seattle ted panicked Corner Ted Carol Washington Carol Durant Utah
Bundyville Revealed

Reveal

51:35 min | 1 year ago

Bundyville Revealed

"From the center for investigative reporting m._p._r. X. is real. I'm l. Let this month to to mass. Shootings happened within hours of each other over. Thirty people were killed. Afterwards people asked familiar question. How could this be happening reading today. We're going to be tackling that question by looking at how a group of people with extremist ideas embraced violence to get their way and how their beliefs leafs spread and in some ways become more dangerous. The story takes us back to january two thousand sixteen. The sun is shining in the sky but the air is frigid in a small oregon town man in a cowboy hat and a thick winter flannel climbs up a snow bank at the edge of a grocery store parking lot and calls out to a crowd of his supporters. I'm asking you to follow me and go to the merrier national wildlife refuge and we're gonna make a harsh stand. That's ammon bundy. He's short speech on that snow. Bank kicked off a six week armed standoff with the federal government in a remote bird sanctuary in the middle of winter. It's crucial social. They you understand what's going on here. What this issue is truly about. It's about our federal government taking over private property. This is bundy's second armed standoff. He and his supporters believed that the federal government has no right to public lands and should turn them over to the states amens father cliven cliven bundy had for decades us public land to graze his cattle but refused to pay the federal fees in twenty fourteen. The federal government came to collect elect and that ended in the first armed standoff with the bundys at their ranch in bunkerville nevada. We take you back to the standoffs because they lead directly to our story today. How anti-government groups and individuals surface to support the bundy's didn't go away when the bundy's did instead over over the past few years people within those groups have become more emboldened and willing to use violence to get what they want today. We're teaming up with the podcast has bundy ville produced by oregon public broadcasting and long rates to see how the violence that started with the bundys has spread bonnevilles hosts. Lisa tilly joins me now now. Elliot hey has gone so before we get to season to remind us what happened to the bundy's after those two standoffs came to an end both of those ended ended with these trials that a lot of critics would say the government botched so with the nevada case. They ended in a mistrial in oregon. They ended in acquittals for for the bundy brothers and their co-defendants so what's motivating the bundy's. How did they get to the point of the first standoff. I think to understand the bundy family family you kind of have to understand that where they come from. There's a real kind of anti-government sentiment that a lot of people share you can look to <hes> when the mormons came west in eighteen hundreds <hes> part of the reason they did that was to get away from the federal government but then the government came to them and sort of started this idea that a lot of mormons in that area feel that they were persecuted for their religion by the government so all of this kind of led to cliven and bundy's standing off with the government in two thousand fourteen saliha how those religious beliefs cut of drive this this confrontation with the federal government the bundy's hold a pretty specific set of fringe religious beliefs that a lot of mormons would not agree with and in fact the mainstream mormon church in salt lake city wouldn't agree with so so my reporting led me to this thing called the white horse prophecy which is basically this kind of urban legend among mormon communities that that that some people believe joseph smith the prophet of the church told <hes> early mormons that they would settle in the rocky mountains and that one day the u._s. Constitution solution would hang by a thread and it would be up to the mormon people to save that from ruin now. The church in salt lake doesn't think this is actually a real prophecy but the the bundy family does and a lot of other people in these kind of anti-government communities also believe that they believe that their fight against the government is them actually saving being the constitution from ruin so where do the bundy's motivations and beliefs overlap with other groups that you've been tracking sense. If you look at the the anti-government anti-government movement you might remember things like ruby ridge and the waco standoff with the branch davidians and both of those events ended and people dying hang at the hands of the government a lot of those were kids so the anti-government groups use those instances as recruitment tools times when they can say look look the federal government will come after people who live differently or do things their own way and they kind of turn a blind eye to the laws that were being broken and by those people involved in ridge in waco so those events really informed cliven bundy and his belief that the government was after people so then when they came him to collect his grazing fees he was seeing it as just the next chapter of ruby ridge and waco but more recent turning point happened at the second bundy standoff there was a shooting of one of the leaders of the occupation and that's going on to inspire people to this day yeah that man that was killed during the occupation was a guy named la voie finicky so during the occupation authorities had orchestrated a traffic stop in a rural area wi- with no cell reception where they could easily arrest the leaders of the occupation so he pulled over these two cars and they arrest ammon bundy arrest several other people but lavoix finicky <hes> decided to drive away from that traffic stop and actually tried to blow through a roadblock drive around it into the snow and then he he jumped out of the car all of that was caught on tape and you narrate for us in the first season of bundy ville the scene picks up right after the voi- finnick jumps out of his car and warning. This is tape of a police shooting. Someone fires two shots that hit the truck. He stumbles through knee-deep snow. It keeps shouting. His hands are up at first then he reaches for his jacket. Pocket inside is loaded handgun. He he puts his hands up again and he reaches hands up reach. Finally police do shoot him. He never managed to grab the gun. So investigators released this video and in two different vantage points one was aerial real footage from a law enforcement drawn. The other was taken by smartphone by people inside the cab of the truck so watching that video you see everything unfold. I'd like you there. How did this incident add more fuel to the fire for the anti-government movement well. The response was almost immediate. <hes> shortly after the shooting a memorial popped up at the snowbank where people who supported the bundy's in the anti-government movement talked about it like it was a murder or an assassination or kind this carefully orchestrated hit <hes> by the government on on a member of the patriot movement even though it was so clear from that footage that you saw these two angles and he saying you're going to have to shoot shoot me that that it was unjustified police shooting so in his death i really found in my months even years of investigation that it it becomes really intertwined in with the militia groups in these anti-government groups that showed up at the bundy's standoffs and it became this target for their anger and that's where you pick up with season two tracking those other groups tells a little about them like who they are and what are they doing sure at both of the bundy's high profile standoffs you saw groups like the oath keepers which is one of the largest most well-known militias across the country came to their side. You saw another militia group called the three percenters chapters chapters from nearby states coming to their side on my reporting. I started to see these other threats picking up of white supremacy and violence in these ideologies that had been there long before these two standoffs. I think it's important to note that groups like the oath keepers were actually in charlottesville taking and the side of the old rate during the protests that happen there yeah and i think if it these are groups that generally wouldn't be very fired up about ranching rightly the bundy's sort of provided a great platform to fight the government and that's often. I think what the takeaway that my reporting has found is that it's it has very little to do with the the constitution has very little to do with ranching oftentimes is just looking for new ways to fight off the government and to kind of force <hes> a a belief system like what we saw it at charlottesville on display that's lee host of the podcast series bundy ville so how does that belief system mm-hmm inspire violence when we come back lee investigates that by heading to the scene of a bombing in the fateh mcconnell explosive. That's coming up on reveal from the center for investigative. Reporting impe are ex <music> you from the center for investigative reporting in p. r. x. viz is reveal ville. I'm outlet today. Were teaming up with the creators of the podcast bundy ville from oregon public broadcasting and long rates their second season dropped a couple of weeks ago and they're investigating some acts of domestic terror that connected to the bundy's supporters season two begins with a bombing in the summer of twenty sixteen that i bet you never heard of a warning before we get started. This story contains some violent scenes his money ville host lisa tilly panetta is this gravelly town on the nevada side of the border with utah about three hours north of las vegas a desert outpost that was founded in the eighteen sixty s by mormon pioneers panetta is god country and such a western cliche that i literally watched tumbleweed roll down the middle tolls street not much happens here but that wasn't the case on july thirteenth two thousand sixteen nine one one. What is your emergency. Hello ma'am ma'am cake for me. Okay and i i can barely hear. You said he was gonna kill you. He said he's calling explosives. You can't are you away from the home. Mm-hmm tiffany cluff was inside her house with her three daughters. When a man came to the door said he was going to blow her house up she should get the kids and leave and demand then lit the fuse on the bomb he'd put inside. The house walked to his car. Got inside lit another bomb and shot himself in the head and then everything blew up <music> shrapnel went everywhere curving in long arcs over the town just down the street. The county sheriff's black black smoke and a mushroom cloud billowing into the sky just a moment but i do need conditional information from the okay here. Also she cooks. We have one dispatcher time. She calls back in jail any book it right now. In your nine hundred starts going crazy. All all all nine lines all administrative. I just couldn't y'all that's lincoln county sheriff jerry lee. He lives down the street. He had no idea what was going on a who was involved but tiffany cluff. She knew the bomber guy who came with glenn jones came into your your house up our house cheerfully was standing in his yard with his dog when it happened so he yanked his dog inside grab the keys to who is patrol rig and drove toward the chaos and i literally felt that in my chest i felt the concussion in my chest then i could see the russian cloud coming up over the earth in the world. I could hear the power <music>. This was the last place that anyone expected a bomb to go off. Tiffany kalev recognize the bomber but no one else had any idea what was going on it was sheriff lease job to respond and figure it out so i grabbed the troll rig and by the time i got to my patrol car. The second explosion happened in the more he told us about it. The crazier the story got we pulled up and of course people from the community were already pulling vehicles in. We actually had to weave through cars that get into the to where the houses and we waved as stop. Stop stop. You're over body parts. I said what you run around with body parts and that's what they said look over there. Look over there settle eggs from the belt down lanes the road the first bomb blew up the house of tiffany and her husband josh cluff. They were nurses in town and lived there with their kids. Josh was in home when it happened in the rest of the family escaped just in time. The second bomb was in a car park next to the house and the man inside the bomber was glenn jones. A former nurse who used to work with josh jones was the only person hurt in the bombing but when sheriff lee pulled up to the scene he had no way of knowing that it was absolute mayhem like so there's body parts everywhere lee is also the town's coroner and when he pulled up to the scene of the bombing he thought his top priority was identifying. Whoever got hurt you can't really identify someone by just their legs so he started looking for the rest of the body eighty and we did not actually find the over torso which is what we needed for identification. I don't care about the. I mean do care but that's not why i need i need. I need legs. I mean i need fingerprints. I need dental records any that type of stuff to be able to identify somebody. It took investigators about fourteen hours to find the top half of glenn jones when they did. He wasn't laid out on his back back and easy to identify. He was a tree in the neighbor's yard. Ours it is but even more bizarre is zet when they found the body and how these strange tattoos on it during the corners investigation he was identified by a couple of ways he we were able to get fingerprints were able to get some some dental and <hes> crazy enough tattooed on his chest said d._n._r. Which do not resuscitate and the phone number for the victim of the house is phone number very bizarre stupid question. That's my producer. Ryan has when you guys saw the phone number tattooed. Did you call the number. It's a really good question. I think we looked at up our system along with <hes> <music>. Ask about glenn jones and they'll say they knew him. Nice sky blew up a house. One time it was strange and sad more than one panic and tells me they wouldn't want to speculate about why a bombing occurred in their town and then offer an opinion anyway for the most part people think the bomb could have been allowed messy expression of workplace grievance between glenn jones and josh cluff josh at one time was glenn's boss at the local hospital and they were good friends glenn even helped josh build his house in pennock but several months before the bombing glenn leftist job at the hospital around the same time he also lost his nursing license for mishandling morphine so people think maybe glenn blamed. Josh share flea tells me within hours of the bombing. It became an f._b._i. Investigation we also had the bomb squad and everything from las vegas. They brought up cadaver sniffing dogs. I mean they brought auto the robot. That was the whole thing i mean. There's a big show the next day all the f._b._i. Told me when asked for comment was that it's quote the policy of the f._b._i. Not to confirm or deny the existence of an investigation it was clear nobody in town could really answer my questions and outside of panetta. Not many people people know about it. The national news didn't cover it. This was a bombing on american soil and sure no one was hurt except the bomber himself but it's hard to imagine if he'd been brown or black or anyone else but a white guy that this would have been a non story. It's only after i left panetta that i found a possible answer answer that pointed to something beyond petty disagreement between coworkers so after visiting aca. I started calling around to try to get answers. I found out that glen jones got some training in field artillery during his eleven years in the army national guard hard but he never saw combat. I also learned that he had been living in kingman arizona in an r._v. Park right before the bombing happened after the bombing coming. The kingman police department rated glen jones's r._v. They found bomb-making materials inside and a few spiral bound journals with jones's name on the cover inside one. There were diagrams for bomb. One detective said quote the entries indicated that glenn jones had been approached by subject identified as josh who offered to pay him to construct an explosive device. The intended target that officer rhode was identified as fourth of july b._l._m. Mm field office. That's the bureau of land management the same federal government agency that got into the initial dispute with the bundys but here's where things get murky erkki because the fourth of july came in went that year nothing happened and by july thirteenth johnson decided instead to target josh cluff. Here's sheriff carefully. I truly still to this day. Don't truly know what the victim and the suspects true relationship was. I know there were friends at one point and they were very good friends. I wondered if there is a chance jones or cluff might have had some beef with the federal government some reason they would have wanted to bomb a beal field office. It turned out there was it goes back to the occupation of the malheur national wildlife refuge oregon when one of the group's leaders lavoix finicky vinnicombe was shot and killed. We'll try to avoid that police barricade in two thousand sixteen when the bomb went off in nevada at the club home finicky was already dead ed and the patriot movement was talking about him as a martyr proof of a tyrannical government murdering americans everywhere you look in the patriot movement. You'll see vinnicombe cattle brand on hats shirts tattoos belt buckles flags bumper stickers. People write songs about him the about accountable own. He's become the figurehead of movement in their report in kingman. Police wrote that there is an entry in jones's notebook indicating that lavoix finn comes death was a possible motive for the planned attack on the beale office and that quote josh is the cousin of lavoie vinnicombe. I was able to confirm the josh. Cliff is related to finish them but that's not proof. He was involved loved so i asked sheriff. Lee was coffee angry at the government over his cousin's death. He said he couldn't say but he told us a story about a time way before the the bombing but we did see an anti-government side to cluff. He didn't want to give us too many details since it involves someone having a medical crisis but the gist was that at the hospital ospital sheriff s cleft help give medical attention to someone couldn't decide to ask for themselves and cleft wasn't having it yet really angry started yelling being a little bit of an eye opening about how josh felt about government overreach. It's unclear whether cluff and jones were working together to bomb the beal building at first and something went wrong or jones working alone and decided to bomb tom clubhouse for some other reason so what happened between the two of them. Cluff is never given any straight answers about jones or lavoix or bomb at office shortly. After the bombing the clubs packed up would few belongings. They could salvage the move to idaho again. Police have not said that the family family has done anything wrong only confirmed that they did in fact got in touch with us on facebook and ask for an interview finally after few messages ages. He wrote back quote. We're just happy and not trying to dig up the past months later. I found an email forum when i reached out again and i tried one more time to get cleft to say something i send him the evidence i had nast whether the bombing was about his cousin voi- finnigan so he responded quote those were terrible times for my family which you're trying to move past at the i did their due diligence and cleared me of any involvement. Men have a nice night. Please be respectful of what my family has gone through so here's what we know. Glenn jones was planning to bomb a beal building an appeared to have begun as a response to the death of lavoix finicky him joneses plot was a continuation of the occupation of the malheur national wildlife refuge which was itself a ripple effect of the standoff at bundy ranch but then for some reason jones baum clubs house instead of the beal building in the years since the bundy's high-profile standoffs more acts of of extremist violence have been popping up in the news they aren't necessarily inspired by the patriot movement but some of them share some of the scene anti-government white supremacist beliefs certainly the news and the man suspected of sending a wave of mail bombs across the country is in handcuffs tonight. A florida man who mailed bombs to prominent liberals just like barack obama hillary clinton and george soros because he thinks they're a part of a shadowy cabal was accused of sending all those devices to critics of president. Donald trump or georgia man killed a cop killer. Tear guthrie claim to be considered himself sovereign citizen nation to himself. He didn't recognize police. It's already and considering consider and i wondered if the pinnacle bombing was perhaps an early sign of this increasingly radical violence a tiny window too small to see the whole picture but a window nonetheless the less into extremist ideologies and how those ideologies become violent. I couldn't ask jones why he blew up the clubhouse or if the the bombing was supposed to send some sort of message but there was someone else someone who is at plenty ranch and who knew voi- finnigan who also tried to blow up a government building ending that same summer and when we come back leah tracks down that man who said what happened at the bundy ranch served as a rallying cry i to me it was one of the biggest events in this country. This has in his history short boston. Tea party parent civil war like that but it was a wakeup call. This is revealed from the center for investigative reporting and p. R. x. <music> the center for investigative reporting in p. r. x. This is reveal. I'm outlet it back. In february at a truck stop outside salt lake city utah lisa tilly and ryan has of the podcast bundy have come to guy in bill keyboard. Keebler blur has been involved with the patriot movement since the bundy's first standoff with the federal government in bunkerville nevada. He says he ran security there afterwards he he started his own militia fifty seven year old william keebler is known by the f._b._i. As a commander of a citizen militia group called the patriots defense force in june of two thousand sixteen that would he hit the button to designate what he thought was a bomb to destroy a building owned by the bureau of land management but it turns out the bomb was a fake komo undercover f._b._i. Agents had given him the device. He pled guilty to the attempted bombing and served time in jail. Now he's out on probation. Leeann ryan pick up the story at that restaurant and salt lake smokes and coffee real quick. They'll keep learn looks like a shriveling old ranch chand. He's got leathery skin. Smoker's cough says he beat cancer once and has had four heart procedures two thousand thirteen and i had a massive heart attack and had to go in for mercy open heart surgery. We're at a denny's tucked into the corner of the truckstop for most most of his working years. Keebler was a horse wrangler and hunting guide with his own company. We ease into the conversation. Ryan and i are just trying to get a feel for who we're talking to what we can and can't ask but it turns out gablers a storyteller and he's happy to talk all about his past. He's got stories from his time. I'm in the army bravo. Infantry went to a lotta specialized training fort bend when germany i'll l. ended there and i think one of the friday saturday morning i woke up on russian communist. Russian border says he also knows his way around computers. Do i used to do costa taster trish. They can't break and they still have nothing. I mean good anyway even says he has a black belt in kung fu fhu studied numerous black belt in four different styles. He says he created his own system of kung fu. You can tell keebler likes to think of himself as a kind of elderly rambo your own and i should be clear. I wasn't able to verify most of his stories but i also wasn't in utah taught to figure out whether he got third place in the kung fu world championships. I wanted to know what happened with the f._b._i. But i that meant convincing him that we weren't f._b._i. Agents raid to talk to people like you. I'm gonna be honestly it would surprise me. Both david pulled out. I just went shot in what i've seen because in keebler world everyone's a potential threat and you can't be too careful. He's been burned once already asked him why is even telling me his story yeah. I've been on borrowed time for years. I came here because they wanted to hear keebler side of the bombing and understand how and why things became violent but just a few minutes into the interview. What i'm really wondering is how did the f._b._i. Decide to focus on this guy. Is this old. The man in poor health really the most dangerous person in the patriot movement. If you skip over the special forces his training the computer hacking and martial arts inventing the verifiable part bill keebler story starts in twenty fourteen when he spent about two weeks and bunkerville ville nevada cliven bundy's ranch the family in some militias were facing off with the bureau of land management because the bundy's hadn't paid their grazing being fees and the b. M. had come to collect their cattle. The fact that keebler was there was later used by government prosecutors in court as evidence of his extremism back. Then keebler says he was a member of the oath keepers a militia associated with the patriot movement and by his account at bunny ranch he he was a bodyguard for the family. He claims he's the guy who kept things from descending into violence. Leave north actually stop. A lot of people like them play out their stop. People wanna shoot people. I don't want to rehash bundy ranch but the long short of it is no one fired any shots and the government backed down and after the bundy's cows were released in the agents laughed. Keebler was pumped up on the patriots big win to me. It was one of the biggest events events in this country. This has his history short at boston tea party to several. We're not like that but it was a wakeup. Geico call so in the following months back at home in utah. Keebler started his own militia. He called it patriots defense force or p._d._f. F was a half dozen or so guys got together mostly to talk about self reliance. Basically they did survival training practice target shooting. They were anti-government. He government peppers. We've talked a lot about going off grid about what to do. When things went sideways keebler even showed people how to raise chickens and rabbits for meat meet then a few months later keebler got a phone call from someone he'd met at bunkerville lavar finicky. He wanted me to basically in his place and give him the support that we gave the bundy's back. Then lavoix finicky was just rancher in arizona and keeler said he was building up to his own bunkerville styles standoff with the m. I can't fully verify what was said in this phone call but i do know that around this time in the late summer of two thousand fifteen finnigan was becoming agitated with the bureau of land management veal a._m. Sarah zero government has said has exclusive legislative power over these lands. He was making that pretty obvious on his youtube page. No none of these bureaucrats crafts do we allow here county none of ever accountable to us emma harvey county. This is the definition of tearing from the way keebler tells the story finicky was not only upset he was looking for a fight and keebler advertises his supposed expertise in military tactics addicts to anyone who'll listen was happy to bring his militia to come help him prepare for the confrontation that the bundy's we got there after the fact if we knew it was coming. We could be prepared because they were actually <hes>. Apparently they won't come. Just take all his cal but it's pretty unlikely that anyone was coming for finnish uh-huh cattle records from the beal showed fit income only owed about fourteen hundred dollars in grazing fees by comparison cliven bundy owed more than a million in dollars accrued over twenty years for the beal plan to cattle roundup that led to the standoff near his ranch but that didn't stop finicky him from preparing for the worst or keebler from helping him do it. They came up with a plan that was different than what the bundy's had done at finnigan's ranch. They decided they would let the federal agents onto. The landry grazed his cattle and then spring a trap. I don't mean ambush salt and killed and shoot none of that cracks. That's worth thank everybody tresor preser- ad-lib ship the plan was to let the be on the property and then use an excavator to destroy the road behind them so they're truck couldn't get out at certain place so when they come up and he'll them cattle that can't get up here we keep alert saying sounded way more extreme of an approach than what i saw the bundy ranch or an oregon he was saying they would trap federal agents and i had to wonder then what are they gonna. Keep them hold them hostage. Why trap them in the first place but before i could get an answer key told me that another member of his militia wanted to blow them all up brad miller's idea. Oh wait till you get right to your brother. It was just up. Keebler says brad miller wanted to set off a bomb at the roadblock but he had a few problems with that. I killing mask to you're killing whoever's truck but brad miller wasn't just a cattle killing dumb ass. He was actually an undercover f._b._i. V. i. agent in fact at varying times. There were three confidential informants and three undercover f._b._i. Agents in keillor's militia and so if you take away keebler the f._b._i. Agents and informants there were at most just three members of p._d._f. Militia all this time finn keebler had been planning a confrontation with federal agents with the help of federal agents in court documents their records of text messages one of the other other undercover f._b._i. Agents who went by the name jake davis sent to his handler right after this happened he wrote quote. I hope we didn't open pandora's whereas box. I'm worried about our liability in another text. Davis worried about miller's continued taunting keebler quote. I'm all pushing him but we can't sound more radical. He wrote to me. That's what it sounds like. We're doing later he wrote. I'm not down with giving him all the ideas it's like when miller told him that we would have to mail a bomb to the beal office or drive a car bomb up to it. We can't be putting crazy ideas into a crazy guys head but they didn't more than just put ideas in his head over the course of their investigation the f._b._i. Agents posing as militia members drove keebler around the west. I patriot movement gatherings. They paid for trainings. They were the majority of his militia and then finally in the spring of two thousand sixteen keebler started to buy in he told the militia that they were going to target beal facilities way out in the middle of nowhere specifically a beal and building that he had scouted in your finnigan's ranch finchem by then had been killed by police after trying to drive around that police blockade oregon over the next couple of months and the f._b._i. Made keebler fake pipe bomb and then on june twenty first twenty sixteen keebler in the rest of his militia traveled to arizona and set the bomb. I'm outside. The building. Keyword pushed the button on a fake detonator the f._b._i. Gave him and then the next morning they arrested him. Topsy picnic brought me a handcuff. This guy comes in dressed bigger shitting grin on his face or allowed to see mr taber trying to brush your sorry ass for two years they had busted him in all it took was three agents three paid informants armaments and two years of pushing keebler before they convinced him to set off a fake bomb way out in the middle of the desert and it's not every day you talked to someone who's tried to bomb a building and i have to say for a while talking to keebler i. I felt like maybe the f._b._i. Missed the mark and manipulated and otherwise innocent man so they could get a conviction but about an hour into our conversation. Things took a hard turn and he didn't seem so innocent anymore. In fact it became very hard to talk to him. It happened when i asked him about how he thinks the federal the government should work think about your ideal situation with the federal government the stink government. What would that look like like what would that what would that world learn their own themselves themselves the government doing the job they were meant to be. The government's purpose is basically for foreign affairs affairs. He says that the government can do its thing trading with china and korea but is no damn business running utah georgia or texas then he starts talking about how muslims are taking over schools. You can't do the pledge of allegiance in school. Were now we got muslims praying and everything else in the hallways in our schools and in our classrooms and teachers are now making kids dress up like muslims i._s. Keebler you give me an example where this was. It's happening but he just said number places yeah. They have taken over host cities. They want to start prayer. They won't stop all the american stuff. The boy scouts and everything make an islam. They're out in the streets. Writing with hundreds of imbalance shutdown rose copter standing over mix. Nobody are you serious badly. Thanks her for about fifty rednecks before pickup trucks will in their pro. Keebler is advocating for something that sounds like intimidation at best an attacking muslims in the street at worst and it's all informed his conspiratorial world view. Maybe this. This is the kind of talk that brought the f. b. i. to him. I don't know tops now dressed up. They got what looks like police cars and what looks like police uniforms and they're doing what they want. Now there was a god. It was preaching christianity to up there. He's been arrested on the internet right now need to homework homework. You think the federal the federal government is in volved in that or you just think it should be no shock at this point to tell you that keebler is also an ardent donald trump supporter. He loves him. He hates barack. Obama thinks he's part of what conspiracy theorists call the deep deep state shadowy government cabal agreement today put him in the present is that he would make way for more muslims to be of the united states. That's actually come out recently won the news reporters. He was made president so more muslims the u._s. He arranged to be able to like soros his financing a lot of <hes> a lot of this is about the new world order looked pedophilia. You're going on right now. They can kill a child hours. After it's been born to keep it alive long enough the organs to develop didn't kilkare okay and harsh it for parts at this point in our interview. Keebler is looking at ryan. Emmy like we're crazy. Like how do we not know any of this this. I can't believe i don't know none of this. We're looking at keebler. Like how crazy do you have to be to believe stuff talking talking to keebler. I feel like i understand how far down conspiratorial rabbit hole you have to be in order to detonate a bomb that helps me understand glenn jones to oh but at the same time keillor's bigotry as clouded his entire perspective on the world keillor's whole life revolves around conspiracy theories but in the world of militias and anti-government groups. This is actually nothing new so we got on the phone with author jesse walker. Tell put a guy like keebler and context walker wrote. A book called the united states of paranoia. I wanted to understand the role. The conspiracies have played in militia groups throughout history. You know in a cold war era <hes> right wing conspiracy theories to you had groups like the john birch society <hes> sort of shifting from in the nineteen sixties from you know fears where off the <hes> the enemy is based in moscow fears where the enemy is based in new york and <hes> manipulating moscow nineties after the cold war ended ended events like ruby ridge waco happened conspiracy shifted again and so it's much easier just sorta see washington as the enemy period <hes> you also have on the rise of the internet and while i'm not someone who argues that the internet made people more paranoid made people boomer conspiracy theorists i do think one thing that it definitely did was allow more mixing among <hes> all these different groups of people who it previously been much more <hes> separate from one another bill keebler fits this description of the modern conspiracy theorist someone looking for a target for their anger. He was in the army fighting communism. When the cold cold war ended he had to look somewhere else and joined up with militias other so-called patriot groups to fight the government now he's a foot soldier for trump and his new enemies are immigrants and muslims and women and abortion doctors bill clinton and george soros hillary clinton and brock obama the deep state. He lives in an acid bath of conspiracy theories so ask keebler. Where's this going in his mind. The shit hits the fan incident incident during the obama administration if he declared more slow rally me rarely around me to central command post and we'll go from there we operations at that point. That would have been should fan so what's the difference now. What's i think if trump declares martial law would be more controlled manner <hes> he's not come after patriots demolition. Do not white people know there. You go pushing the racist bullshit. The people got angry when i asked him. If this entire world she'd conspiracies government balls is really just a veil for his racism after he spent an hour telling wildly inaccurate stories about sharia law evasions at the border how muslims are a plague in a christian nation like america. He tells me i'm off base to ask at this. All really comes down to bigotry. Keebler is built his world around these extremist ideas and he's not willing to back down from them. That much is clear when ryan awesome different question happens if the democrats impeach trump or some kind of charges the bra. What do you think happens with the patriots over. I'll bet off just from what i'm hearing seeing on the internet. All bets are off with you. Bet your off take their word keebler guy who tried to blow up a government building in who lives is on a steady stream of hate from the internet says he's had enough if anything were to ever happen to his guy trump and he thinks it'd be time to take up arms again. People are wanting retaliation revenge. They won't pay back for a lot of things this abortion crap what what is happening to our children what has happened to our streets whereas happened in our schools. People want retribution rich bution listening to that story. You might think the government spending a lot of resources versus to stop people like bill keebler but in reality. He's the exception not the rule. Don't get me wrong the f._b._i. Carries out plenty of sting operations nations. They're just usually focus on terrorist acting in the name of islam. Even though there's way more acts of right wing terrorism we looked at this with type investigations sagacious a few years back and found that half of the incidents carried out in the name of islam are stopped with stinks half. Meanwhile stings were used to stop just twelve percent of white supremacists anti-government and other right wing terrorism in other words law enforcement. Usually only folks is on right wing violence after the bombs explode leah. I want to get back to the last thing that we heard from bill keebler that people want retribution. What does he mean by that. There's really been a transition. I think in the year since the bundy's standoffs <hes> a lot of the anti-government movement suddenly loves loves the government under trump which kind of is is counterintuitive right like the anti-government movement is suddenly pro government because trump is talking about things that they care about deeply things like anti immigration issues anti-muslim issues and trump is this kind of anti-government president so retribution for guys like bill keebler is seeing the extremes of those things coming true finally coming to fruition so a country with no immigrants no more islam no more tolerance of anyone wight christian people. I mean the two things the idea that these these groups are anti-government and the fact that suddenly they are pro government under trump is not surprising to me at all because i think the underpinning of both of these things <unk> are white supremacy. How does that play out in anti-government movements. There's this kind of coded language of of racism and bigotry that that drives the groups and in that that you can hear under a lot of what they say so yeah it's not it's not really surprising that after years of being mostly dormant a lot of these anti-government groups had a big resurgence under the first black president under president obama so you can see evidence of the way white supremacy rides along with all of these anti-government anti-government flash points in the last thirty years so like randy weaver the guy who is at the center of the ruby ridge standoff. He was known to hang out at the area nations compound compound in north idaho. <hes> the oklahoma city bomber timothy mcveigh was inspired by a novel called the turner diaries which sort of envisions this <hes> <hes> future dominated by a race war. So what does he have a what people like bill keebler will be doing between now and the presidential election next year i i think bill keebler specifically focused on getting off probation kind of disappearing into the woods. I guess if he could <hes> said he wanted to move out of utah where he feels like the federal government is watching him. He's left social media and not kind of thing but he's still occasionally talks about conspiracies pro-trump messages ages. He's very excited about some of the racist comments that that president trump has been saying as of late so you kind of see a an individual like him him as really an getting excited about trumpet also getting excited about these anti democrat anti liberal conspiracies that that spread like wildfire on on the internet. Why does the government have such a hard time. Stopping these kind of domestic groups and i'm thinking that you know when we look at this. We're primarily talking about white. Supremacists premesis and the government doesn't seem to have a problem tackling other types of terrorism. Why does the government seemed to have such a hard time stopping shopping these groups with violent tendencies. I think it's about priorities. After nine eleven there is a major shift towards focusing on cracking down on international terrorism awesome and it took the focus off of domestic anti-government groups that saw such a resurgence during the nineteen nineties so. I think that your question is right on and what's changed now to stop them. So what else do you uncover in the rest of the season of bundy ville. I answered all kinds of questions. One of those is that i looked at how the anti-government movement recruits other people to do violence and who stands to benefit from that violence so those questions took me all around the american west a- actually led me to a really secretive religious community that i long heard about up in eastern washington that is thought of as this real patriot friendly place yes and i think could be thought of as something of an origin point for a lot of the ideas that the western anti-government movement is excited about liza tilly. Thank you so much coach thank you. We want to thank the whole team of bundy ville for their help. As we said the full run of season two is just out with more twists and turns highly recommend you check it out. You can also read the series on long reach dot com slash bundy ville bundy villes produced by long reads in oregon public broadcasting our partners and bring you this week. Show many thanks to the o._p._b. Editors ryan has anna griffin and long read editors mike dang and kelly stout in fact checker matt giles our executive producer. Kevin sullivan edited today show with help from reveals. Emily harris and g amini are reduction managers news. One day in the hosa are sound design. Team is the dynamic duo j. breezy. Mr jim briggs and fernando-mania room are c._e._o.'s krista schaumburg mad thompson. Thompson is our editor in chief our theme music is by colorado might support for bills provided by the raven david logan foundation the john d and catherine t. macarthur foundation the jonathan logan family foundation the ford foundation the hazing simon's foundation the democracy fund and the ethics excellence in journalism foundation reveal is a co-production at the center for investigative reporting p._r. Ex i'm outlets and remember there is always more to the story yeah <music>.

cliven bundy william keebler federal government oregon glenn jones keebler utah Donald trump bundy ville Leeann ryan bundy bundy ranch cliven cliven bundy sheriff lee bill keebler nevada arizona barack obama beal building president
Filmmaker Joe Berlinger Goes in the Dark Mind of Ted Bundy

Kickass News

43:04 min | 1 year ago

Filmmaker Joe Berlinger Goes in the Dark Mind of Ted Bundy

"This is kick ass news. I'm Ben Mathis. When you need energy on the go and don't have time to wait in line, grab it spreads. So monster, Espresso monster is a premium blend of Espresso and cream made with freshly brewed Espresso, coffee hormone free milk, and a unique energy blend complete with taurine and B vitamins each can has three shots of Espresso and comes in vanilla Bresso and Espresso and cream flavors. I had one this morning before I came into the studio, and let me tell you it gave me just the boost I needed to get my day going, plus it tastes so delicious. I'd drink in anyway. So close your eyes, take a sip and enjoy Espresso Munster today. And now enjoy the podcast. Murder the person of this type hungry on field would also leave him with the obviously irrational belief that the next time he did movies seal. And the next time. He did it. Or the next. I'm not free the personality. Hi, I'm Ben Mathis. Welcome to kick ass news. That was the chilling voice of America's most notorious serial killer, Ted Bundy from a new true crime docu series that premieres on net flicks today, titled conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes, the foreparts special brings an infamously twisted mind into the light for the very first time through exclusive never before heard interviews from Ted Bundy himself this unique and gripping docu series focuses on a man whose personality good looks and social graces defied the serial killer stereotype allowing him to hide in plain sight as he committed the brutal sex crime slayings of more than thirty women before being caught in nineteen seventy eight it also examined the role that the media played and sensationalizing everything to do with Bundy. And how it paved the way for America's obsession with true crime as entertainment, and it's no coincidence that the director of converse. Nations with the killer. Is none other than Joe Berlinger who's been credited as one of the fathers of the true crime genre with his award winning documentaries like brother's keeper and the paradise lost trilogy today. Joe comes on the podcast talk about why he wanted to reexamine the Ted Bundy murders on the thirtieth anniversary of his execution and how he gained exclusive access to more than one hundred hours of prison interviews with the notorious killer, he discusses how one of bundy's first jobs gave him an inside view of the flaws in America's law enforcement system, how Bundy exploited those weaknesses to his own devilish advantage, and how it led to dramatic changes and how the F B I profile serial killers. And how state and local police share information. We talk about how Ted bundy's clean cut good. Looks helped him elude capture the groupies who showed up to support Bundy during his trial and the movie heart-throb Joe Berlinger cast in a new feature film about Bundy. We talk about the media serve. Circus that turned Ted Bundy into a household. Name the influence the Bundy trial had on the modern true crime genre. And why Berlin ger known as the father of the true crime documentary doesn't actually like the term true crime coming up with the ward winning filmmaker Joe Berlinger in just a moment. Joe Berlinger is an Academy Award nominated and EMMY and Peabody award winning filmmaker behind such landmark true crime documentaries as brother's keeper and the paradise lost trilogy as well. As the rocky memory Metallica some kind of monster in many other films. Now, he's produced and directed a four part docu series called conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes which debuts on net flicks. January twenty fourth as well as a dramatic film, titled extremely wicked shockingly evil in vile, which premieres at Sundance just two days later. Joe Berlinger, welcome to the podcast. Oh, thanks for having me. Glad to be here. Well, this documentary was just fascinating. And it comes on the thirtieth anniversary of Ted bundy's execution. What do you think is at the core of our enduring fascination with this monster? Yeah, you know, I think I it was convenient that the thirtieth anniversary of his exit. Cuche in kind of gave, you know gave the show an organizing principle, but I think thirty years from now will still be fascinated with Bundy, I just think because you know, he taps into our deepest darkest worst fear. Not that not that we're going to all be killed by serial killers per se, but rather the person next to you is ultimately unknowable because Bundy defied all stereotypes of what you want to think, a serial killer looks like and feels like, you know, people wanna think that serial killers are these odd social outcasts that are easily identifiable in society. But the reality is and particularly for Bundy who embodied this, you know, Bundy was a charming good looking guy that people liked who, you know, he declared his innocence for a long time a lot of people believed him. And so the whole idea that somebody could be so evil could be the. Serial rapist murderer of over thirty women, and he did terrible things to these women both before and after death that it's a person whom many people liked and admired, and that's that's our deep. I think a very deep dark fear that that he and fascination that he taps into. I mean as Bundy himself says in the show, you know, murderers, do not come out of the shadow with long fangs dripping in blood. They are people, you know, you like you work with you admire who the next day or capable of of the most demonic evil possible. You know, so that's that's my fascination with him. And also, I you know, the other reason I thought it was a good time to take a look at him. Now is that? You know, I don't need to tell anybody that. There's seems to be an insatiable appetite these days for anything true crime related. I've never been busier. And there's never been more stuff coming out about you know, that's crime related, and I think we can trace that all the way back to Ted Bundy because Bundy who represented himself at his own murder trial the Bundy trial in Miami was the first nationally televised trial. It was the first time cameras were led into the courtroom and people just saw serial murder as entertainment of from gavel to gavel for the first time, and you can take that line and trace it directly to the OJ Simpson trial in ninety five and then to where we are today, which is just we just seem to have this fascination with this kind of material new just talking about the fact that Ted Bundy wasn't what you pictured when you think of a mass murderer. He was handsome. Well-spoken well-dressed how much of this. Do you think played into his ability to allude capture for? So that that that was part and parcel to how he was able to go on a multi state killing spree and not be captured was people just didn't think that this guy could be capable. In fact, some of his earlier murders were in Seattle in the Seattle area in this place called lake sammamish, which was outside of Seattle the this state park, and he was so he had escalated his killings instead of nocturnal preying upon a female walking alone in in an alleyway type of killing this time at lake sammamish. He he brazenly went out in the open on a very busy weekend day at a at this park that was on a lake and he brazenly approached numerous women to which was his class. Classic Rusi had fake cast on and asked different women. If. They would accompany him to help him put a sailboat on his vehicle, and even though he successfully ended up killing not one but two women that day. There was enough people who heard him say his name Ted who heard him say he had a VW and enough information was gleaned by authorities that a composite sketch was made of him, and when this newspaper article with the composite sketch circulated around Seattle, including his name in the his first name Ted and the mention of his VW a lot of Ted's friends pointed to the newspaper and said, oh, boy, isn't that a coincidence a guy named Ted, and he has VW to and look at the sketchy kinda looks like you. But nobody thought oh jeeze. Maybe he's the killer. I think the fact that he was able to present himself as a up and coming lawyer law. Lawsuit made people, you know, give him a pass yen at one point wasn't even going into politics. I guess it was on the staff of a gubernatorial campaign. Do you think that he saw himself one day becoming president good question? Well, you know, there's certain psychopaths have lots of things in common in their aspiration for the high the high office. But I I don't I don't think he saw himself that way. I think I think actually, sadly, despite the outward appearance, he had this nagging, insecurity, this nagging emptiness. And that's what compelled him to kill. So I'm not sure he really thought of himself as somebody who was going to have that career. But I think others who looked at him thought he was on the path to success the skeleton around which you built this document series is a collection of over one hundred hours of audio interviews with Ted Bundy from prison win. And how did you first become aware of these recordings was Stephen Michaud? Oh, and Hugh Ainsworth who are journalists. They conducted these interviews in nineteen eighty right after his conviction. The these audiotaped interviews and had exclusive access to Bundy. And they turned it into a book called conversations with a killer and Michaud was a fan of my work and reached out to me. And when I heard these tapes, you know, fairly recently, I thought, wow, this is something amazing to build a show around. I like how you use the word skeleton. But you know, we might wanna use that word a little more careful as as as it relates to this story. Just just kidding. But when I saw that the tapes were, you know, when I listened to these tapes, I thought, you know, because there there is a lot of stuff on Bundy out there already. And so I and I've always been fascinated by his story. But I never. I thought I would be adding to the kind of you know. Shows and media that's already out there about Bundy. But this these tapes, you know, felt like there was something new to say so my partners at radical media. And I went to Netflix and to see if they were interested in they agreed that there's a real opportunity here to tell a somewhat familiar story through a whole new point of view in a new lens, and that is entering into the mind of the killer himself to get some kind of understanding of how he operated and why he operated, and you know, it's utterly chilling. And fascinating to hear the killer himself talk about his crimes, I'm interested in how these two journalists you and Steven actually got permission to do this. Because a lot of people requested interviews with Bundy in prison, and he always turned them down. But Stephen and Hugh convinced him by reaching an unusual agreement with Ted Bundy could you talk about their deal. You know, Michelle. Ios agent. You know, reached out to him saying that Bundy was looking for somebody to tell his story that seemed interesting to those guys because you know, at the time Bundy was declaring his innocence. I mean, that's another hallmark of Bundy in that, you know, most serial killers once they're caught, you know, just love to spill the beans about their evil acts Bundy maintained his innocence throughout the trials throughout the entire appeals process and didn't actually confess until days before his execution in nineteen Eighty-nine. And even that was a cynical attempt to extend his life because he hoped that by becoming useful. And finally talking about the crimes that was his kind of you know, Ason the hall that would keep, you know, investigators investigators would want to keep him alive until they closed. These many cases in multiple states that were still technically open. So I think Stephen and Hugh thought well if he's telling the truth, and he is innocent. Then it's a hell of a story. And if he's not telling the truth, and and we reinvestigate the case, and we have access to Bundy, it'll still be an interesting story. So they decided to sign on. And kinda Stephen was tasked more with doing the sit down interviews while he went off in tried to put together the pieces of the case. Of course, us investigation turned up the fact that you know, Bundy was obviously the killer. It sounds like he's sent them on a fool's errand. And they actually talk about having a certain amount of buyer's remorse at some point because he would just jerk them around for hours and talk about his idyllic, childhood and bloviate about this and that and anything other than the murders. How did they finally get him to talk about that even though Bundy was looking to tell his own story and look for some investigator to exonerate him. Stephen wanted to drill into the crimes and. Bundy kind of refused to talk about the crimes which defeated the whole purpose of why were they were there? And so Steven had this kind of epiphany in which if he you know, he he offered to have Ted just be an expert witness to talk in the third person. And he theorized that if Ted was allowed to talk in the third person, you know, a serial killer loves to talk about their crimes, but he didn't want to implicate himself legally. And so he suggested to Ted that one one you talk in the third person and tell me what a person like this might do if they were in this situation, and you can kind of be an expert for me, and that idea really appealed to Bundy and Bundy, then it was like the floodgates opened. And he started talking, you know, quite extensively in about. You know what? A killer would have done in these crimes and clearly he's talking about himself because the the level of detail that he knew clearly suggested that that he was the person doing these things, but it allowed him to talk in a way that didn't implicate him legally, they admit in the documentary that they got pretty frustrated with all the games Bundy was playing with them. And eventually they just got sick of being around the guy. Yeah, they were fascinated by the time. He started to talk. But by the end of the process, they were so disgusted by what they learned from this person that you know, they had had enough. You know, I I can relate, you know, I've done now kind of almost simultaneously. I did the scripted movie with Zach Ephron lily Collins, which takes a different part of you. And I've been deeply immersed in the in the tapes and doing the series, and I am, you know, not that I'm sick of talking about the show right now to use to take the wrong way. But but it's it's the. Acts that he did are so vile what he did to another human being so repulsive, and he demonstrates such a lack of remorse, which was one of the remarkable things about my entry into these tapes was just a deeper understanding of how that mind works, and how remorse lis- he was. I'm sick of it too. Because it's just you know, it's the darkest side of humanity. That's been revealed here and their experience of kind of being led along by Ted Bundy was not uncommon one constant weather. It was Bundy talking to the reporters or even to the FBI whether he was on the Lam from the law or standing trial. He seemed to always be one step ahead just toying with people and relishing these little mind games Bundy was a master manipulator. I mean, his whole MO approaching women with fake cast or limping with a with a fake crutch. You know pr-? Paying upon the female instinct to nurture seeking out help and then using that to isolate a woman by his car and then killing them in horrific ways. Whether it's that or declaring his innocence or manipulating his live in girlfriend, which is the subject of my scripted movie was Acque Ephron, but he was always doing things to trip up the police he would change his modus operandi and change up. How he did the crimes he would leave things at crime scenes that had nothing to do with the crimes to confound them. You know when the heat started getting hot in the Washington state area after that lake sammamish brazen daytime attack onto women resulted in a sketch of him being circulated in the Seattle paper. He moved onto Utah became a member of. The Mormon church as cover continued on his on his killing spree. You know, he was enrolled at the university of Utah law school, but he chose to go to law school in Utah. As a way of getting out of Seattle, we're gonna take a quick break. And then we'll be back with more with Joe Berlinger when we come back in just a minute. If there's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals better. Help online counseling can help. Better. Help offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized initials such as depression anxiety relationships. Trauma anger family conflicts, LGBT matters, grief, self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor in a safe private online environment and get help at your own time. And at your own pace, anything you share is confidential. And it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist. If for some reason, you're not happy with your counselor though, you can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Best of all, it's a truly affordable option. Kick ass news listeners. Even get ten percent off your first month with the discount code kick. So why not get started today? Go to better help dot com slash kick. Then simply. Fill out a questionnaire to help them assess your needs and get matched with a counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash kick. And now back to the podcast. I want to ask you a little bit more about this scripted feature film. That's premiering alongside the documentary. Does it take a different angle on Ted Bundy than the documentary? You know, lily Collins plays the real life, Elizabeth club for who. You know? That's an aspect of the story. That's so fascinating to me that during the six years that Bundy was doing most of his killing he was living with this woman named Elizabeth club for who we met in a bar in nineteen sixty nine and for six or seven years, they had a wonderful relationship. He was a terrific surrogate. Father to her daughter from another relationship he was by all accounts at terrific boyfriend. So he was just you know, masterfully manipulating people. Although I think he actually really did love a Elizabeth in as much as a psychopath can love that relationship is what I focus on on in the scripted film. Extremely wicked and Zach Ephron. Plays Ted Monday and lily Collins plays Elizabeth for. Yeah. Which is perfect because he did have a certain movie star like quality to him. You wouldn't want to cast a monster to play Ted Bundy? Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's, you know, in many ways, we're kind of poking at Zaks kind of teen heartthrob image that he wants to get away from, but is still part of his personality part of his kind of persona and Bundy, you know, even at his Miami trial after much of the information was already out in known to the public that trial was attended by a number of, you know, I hate to use this word groupie, but that feels like an appropriate word number of young women who were so titillated by the idea of Bundy in the courtroom that they had to go for themselves and witness witness the trial. He had that kind of pull over women, which I. Found fascinating. Yeah. And it's interesting because America seemed to have this duality with Ted Bundy where there was the revulsion in the fear. But there was also especially after he escaped from custody, not once but twice this sense of him as a folk hero and sex symbol, and it's absolutely astonishing. You know that a guy who, you know, kept declaring his innocence. And yet the legal troubles kept mounting, and he escapes from prison not once but twice and while he's on the Lam does his most vicious killings in Florida at Florida State University in Tallahassee the cuyahoga sorority killings. You would think that somebody who was, you know, had the presence of mind to plan to prison escapes. I mean who who who escapes from prison once let alone twice you would think that he would learn his lesson and lay low, but that compulsion to kill was so strong that by the time it got to. Florida two weeks after his second escape he does some of his most vicious killings. And yet he still had his admirers and fans, and there was this odd duality as you say of of, you know, people, you know, fearing him, but also almost according him some kind of folk hero status which continues today. I mean, it's just it's, you know, a America, you know, has five percent of the world's population yet, we've had sixty seven percent of the world's serial killers. And the one name that constantly floats to the top despite those many, many serial killers. We've we've you know had here in America. The Bundy name is just so well known and I think, you know, it goes back to bundy's trial. He was this was the first nationally televised trial the. First time serial murder was kind of turned into mainstream entertainment because basically technology meeting this increasing fame of this guy. Just a few months before his trial. A number of new stations were still shooting news on sixteen millimeter film. But around the time of the Bundy trial, this new satellite technology, and electronic news gathering as we know it today was was just coming into its own. And so that allowed live coverage of his trial. The Florida judge allowed the cameras in because it was such demand for coverage from around the world by the time the trial started. I mean, there were cameras from fifty states in nine countries watching this horror unfold gavel-to-gavel, you know, you can draw a straight line from there to the Bundy execution when Bundy was executed ten years later. It was the first time mobile satellite. Trucks were kind of in vogue, and his execution was also a live television event. Obviously, they weren't looking at him actually being executed, but all the fanfare outside of the death house was covered, you know, extensively. And I think because he was our first media celebrity in terms of criminality in a whole new way of covering these stories, it, you know, it's made him into this this memorable figure that people have, you know, all sorts of odd feelings about. Yeah. And he almost seemed to have an intuitive instinct for how to manipulate the media you talked about during the trial, and how he was allowed to be his own co-counsel and lead his own defense cross examine witnesses, and he's filing all these crazy motions in court. Like, you know, I want to quote unquote, change of menu because he's tired of eating grilled cheese sandwiches or proposing marriage to a witness on the stand. I it seems like. He's playing more to the press than he is to the jury. Yeah. Absolutely. He was playing to the press. But also, I think to his own detriment legally some of the things that he did trial. I think greatly benefited the prosecution merg sample very early on the prosecutor Larry Simpson called the PO the first police officer who was at the crime scene at for the Cayo mega murders. The the first police officer to show up at the scene, and the prosecution was not planning on diving too deeply into into the details of the crime scene because they were going to present forensic evidence later in the trial. So is a very brief kind of just table setting establishment of the crime scene, and and this particular police officers role in it Bundy to the consternation of his public defenders. Stood up and decided to cross examine extensively with great detail. The crimes the this officer who was the first at the crime scene and going into such detail that everyone in the courtroom kind of felt like this was a serial killer or a killer relishing going over the details of his crimes, and you know, it it it did not help in the minds of the jury that he did those kinds of things and yet he played to the to the press into the media and the and the and the spectators in the in the galley were hugely entertained by him. And I almost wonder if you think that maybe the theatricality of his defense strategy pre-stages what we see in politics today, where if you can create enough distraction in theory, maybe the facts won't matter. I think that's a I think that's a very good point. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. You know, he was. You know, he was somebody who just kept denying denying the Niang. And and a lot of people signed on but much to their chagrin later when he confessed just a few days before his execution. I mean, the the most notorious example of courses caroll-ann Boone a worker of his from earlier days in Washington state during the Miami trial. She came down to support him. They ended up falling in love he proposed marriage to her while during the mitigation phase of his death sentence during the Kimberly Leach trial, which was the second trial after the Cayo mega sorority trial and he proposed marriage because he became aware that you know, a declaration of marriage proposal in an open court in front of court. Officers crew. Created a legal marriage in the state of Florida. And you know, the prosecution dismissed it as charade designed to you know, you elicit sympathy like who's going to you know, how how can you sentence me to death on my marriage? They give me give me life without parole. Instead that was that, you know, how the prosecution and many people perceived it, and yet the public just kind of ate it up and caroll-ann said, yes and still believed in his innocence. And they actually you know had a child together while he was on death row. So it was it was an extraordinary set of circumstances. I was interested to learn that before he even began his killing spree. I think he worked at the Seattle crime commission. Do you think that gave him an insider knowledge of the weak spots in the system that he could explode to his advantage? Oh, absolutely. I mean, the fact that he had that kind of knowledge of you know, how police investigations worked as. Is one of the many ironies and interesting facts. I think Bundy is very much a product of his of of the era. You know, the the seventies was a time before many police investigation techniques had been created for example. There's a common perception that profiling F B I profiling is what captured Bundy, but it's just the opposite. The failure to capture Bundy after his conviction caused a lot of soul-searching at the FBI and led to the creation of their profiling program. And so Bundy was interviewed by the FBI after his conviction as a way to, you know, start creating this profiling program, you see a fictionalized version of it in in the Netflix series mindhunter. But this was you know, the local police. Departments. All of whom I think did as good job as possible. So this is not to criticize either the King County police in Seattle or the Colorado police because in Colorado, for example, Mike Fisher, the detective there was tenacious in trying to solve the murder of Karen Campbell. But police departments didn't routinely share information there were no central databases forensics as exists now was in a far weaker state. There was no DNA evidence. There weren't even fax machines, or you know, police are police departments communicated by teletype. There was no internet. So Bundy, you know, exploited the system and was able to elude capture for for far too long. In fact, to me, one of the most fascinating and horrifying things about the Bundy case, you know, in particular is that you know, he was apprehended three times he was apprehended in Utah. And that ultimately led to his conviction. For attempted kidnapping of Carol Durant. He was apprehended in Colorado after his first prison break six days after his prison break, he was apprehended and he was apprehended in Pensacola, Florida, which ultimately led to his his final murder trial in Miami for the cuyahoga killings. But in each instance, he was not arrested because the police were on his trail, and they caught the right guy. Each of these arrests were because he was driving stolen vehicles you radically and an alert police officer noticed either a stolen vehicle or the erotic driving. And that's the reason he had been pulled over in each of those three instances, and then only later did they realise who they had in in custody. So I've always kind of thought it's amazing that had Bundy been a better driver. He might never have been caught. Wow. In the aftermath of Ted bundy's killings, you mentioned that the F B started, profiling serial killers. And there's this kind of silence of the lambs mind hunter aspect to all of this where at a certain point Bundy began actually helping the FBI with cases in volunteering is theories and information about different active cases, or what kind of things was he telling them and was it useful? I think a lot of what he's he offered. The FBI was useful. And again, it was you know, sent his cynical attempt to keep himself alive by bargaining information. But you know, he had, you know, a unique insight, and I think for Bill hag Meyer, the FBI agent who interviewed him, and who was part of that profiling program, I think he was incredibly useful to them. So some good came out of the Bundy saga. But at obviously way too high a price. I wanna go back to his execution because as you mentioned the media circus even carried through all the way to his death. Seth you show. Thousands of people gleefully showing up at the prison selling souvenir t-shirts shooting off fireworks in this macabre carnival around his execution in a strange way. Do you suppose that the ultimate sociopaths final? Masterpiece was that he made the media and by extension America as a whole just a little bit more callous in less than pathetic. I think that's an outstanding point. And one of the things that troubles me, including myself. You know, I'm I-. I impartially self reflexively looking at how we've become this nation of what I call rubber neckers where you know, we do want to see what's happened to other people. We do look at crime as entertainment, unfortunately. And while I like to think that much of my true crime stuff. In fact, I hate that moniker. You know, if you look me up in the Wikipedia page it says, I'm a true crime pioneer. But true crime for me is you know. Is a mixed bag because sometimes, you know, it's just wallowing in the misery of other people. And I hate to think that that's what I do. You know, there's a certain aspect to my work that I believe, you know, as I've advocated for the wrongfully convicted I've helped wrongfully convicted people get out of prison with my work with the arise law series. You know? So there's a social Justice component to my true crime filmmaking and yet I'm part of genre. That takes other people's tragedies. The worst tragedy you can imagine the loss of a loved one, and we make entertainment out of it. And you know, I'm highly aware and conscious of that. And I do think all of that the the circus like atmosphere, the t shirts that were being sold. You know, burn Bundy burn, you know, people driving by with banners, you know, FSU students wanting revenge who you know, were not old enough. We're probably ten years old when the crime. Uh-huh. Actually happened. You know, I do think it's it was kind of a low point. And a floodgate of where we are today where there is an insatiable appetite for this type of programming. And I think often the victim is forgotten. You know, we have to remember that there are dozens of family members dozens and dozens and dozens of family members who are the the victims as well of bundy's crimes, and I do think, you know, and I'm applying the criticism to myself. So I'm not immune from it. But at least I I wanted to pull back and analyze I think sometimes our our desire to examine these crimes is often at the expense of the victim. Well, I want to also ask you about that social Justice aspect to what you do your most famous documentary paradise lost played an instrumental role in freeing, the young men who were wrongfully accused of murder, and I wanna. Her how you feel about the ethical state of true crime today. Do you worry that you might have created a monster in that too many directors in this next generation are now starting with the innocent man, ending in mind in skewing, the story to fit their desired narrative? You know? Look, I think the worst one of the worst things that could happen to a person is to be convicted of a of a crime that they're not guilty of and that and prosecutors have unique power to take away your personal liberty and sometimes they don't always play by the rules. So and once you're convicted it's really hard to get unconvicted. It just it takes far too long for the wheels of Justice to operate. And sometimes they don't operate at all, you know, it's estimated that, you know, five percent of people in prison by many experts are are wrongfully convicted, you know, with two million people in prison in our country every day. That's a lot of people who are. Potentially innocent, you know, more and more filmmakers taking up the cause and shining a light on these injustices. I think can only be helpful. I just hope that it's done responsibly and not done in a way where we're letting guilty people go free. But I think by the time these cases make it into the lens of filmmaker. You know, there's a pretty good chance that the person is is innocent. So I don't necessarily think we've we've created a problem. We have such a problem with the criminal Justice system is in such need of reform on so many levels from over sentencing from the legacy of the the the the the horribly conducted war on drugs, the racial inequity. There's just so many issues of incarceration that need to be addressed that I don't think there can be enough films and television programmes being made Mike my fear is not that they profile the wrong person. My. Fear is that there's so much documentary activity going on these days the form has never been more popular. There's so much activity that I hope people don't become you know, kind of. Immune to what's going on. You know, it's it's, you know, sometimes we become so inoculated from having any feeling because we keep hearing the same situation over and over again, you know, when brother's keeper in paradise lost first came out, they were rather unique films. And so they were able to cut through and tell their stories now, we have so many of them that I hope people really pay attention to the underlying issue as opposed to just treating it as the latest piece of entertainment to consume. And then forget about we'll before we go. Do you think Ted Bundy was insane? Or is that a cop out, you know, one of the things the tapes taught me is that he was highly aware of what he did. It's not like some act done by a split personality or an M amnesia. He was highly aware, and therefore it's hard to say was. The insane or not insane. Because anybody who would do these kinds of things is by definition insane. But he was a highly aware of his acts, and therefore he got the the punishment. He deserved. Whoa. Conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes debuts on net flicks. Thursday, January twenty fourth and Joe's film, extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile Ramirez at the Sundance film festival this weekend. Joe Berlinger, thanks so much for talking with me. Good conversation. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Joe Berlinger for coming on the show conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes is available on net. Flicks beginning today, January twenty four and also look for his feature film. Extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile at the Sundance film festival and in theater soon. If up with Joe at Joe, Berlinger dot com or on Twitter at at Joe Berlinger. Whatever struggles you're facing from depression and anxiety trauma and grief better. Help can connect you with a professional counselor in a safe and private online environment. It's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything you share is completely confidential. Best of all, it's a truly affordable option. Kick ass news listeners. Even get ten percent off your first month with the discount code kick. So why not get started today? Simply go. To better help dot com slash kick. And fill out a questionnaire to get matched with the counselor. You'll love today again, that's better help dot com slash kick. If you haven't already be sure to subscribe to kick ass news on itunes and leave us a review, you can follow us on Facebook or on Twitter at at kick ass news pod. And as always, I welcome your comments questions and ideas at comments at kick ass, news dot com. I'm Ben Mathis. And thanks for listening to kick ass news. Kick ass. News is a trademark of Mathis entertainment Inc.

Ted Bundy Joe Berlinger Seattle Murder America Miami FBI Ted Florida murder Ben Mathis Stephen Michaud lake sammamish Netflix Acque Ephron Sundance Steven Utah Espresso Munster lily Collins
Full Episode: Friday, February 15, 2019

20/20

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Full Episode: Friday, February 15, 2019

"Are you hiring with indeed you can post job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash twenty twenty. That's indeed dot com slash twenty twenty. State prison. Mr. Ted Bundy he'd been involved in how many Amish. L we came up with thirty could've been well over honored. But we will never know we collectively still have this fascination about him. This new film filming which Zach Ephron plays. Ted bundy. I'm going. Was debonair you could be classy when he needed to go ladies loved it could've dated anybody. Almost the African away women disappeared. How do you vanish? But it hard to explain why drive around with an ice pick and a pantyhose mass almost taunting quality like catch me. If you can what do you got there? Bob. Well, it looks like a job got teeth in it. Yes. He would be the last person you'd ever think would be a serial killer. You're gonna find. There isn't anybody who grew up here that is of certain age that doesn't have a Ted Bundy story. His presence here is huge. It's such an amazing story that touches on so many things it is part of the history of the Pacific northwest. It's part of the history of criminal Justice in the United States. It's a story worth telling who was this young man on the Pacific northwest, the son. We raised was a wonderful good person. He was the perfect young man empathetic sympathetic ambitious. You know, how to flatter people? He knew how to win their trust. It was good looking and charming and seemingly had the world in his grasp and was going to be a successful guy. There were two bundy's. The only people that ever saw the diabolical Bundy whereas victims there is the personality that was the fake and on. There is the personality that was the killer. I think we definitely have to be careful to not remiss a Cise people like to bundle. I never wanted to think people were born evil, but my opinion about that change when I'm at Ted. I think uses warning. Seattle was a smaller more unisom place. But I mean women were moving about ways that were probably more autonomous and women's movement was you know, in full early flour than it was a time. When many women were feeling very independent. So people didn't think right away that a woman who hadn't been seen for a few days might have fallen in tarps way. When you look at Ted Bundy was about the right age to be in college. He drove a Volkswagen beetle very very popular car in the seventies. And so when he would move into a college campus, he just fit right in. But that was disarming to his victims. Like, he should be here. He looks like one of us. He drives one of our cars. I remember being with Ted and driving up the road and just having a great time. And they have a lot of man-made little lakes in the middle of Seattle. And we'd go out and may there go swimming. I like talking to teddy was an intellect, and we talked a lot about political things and how they ran the government and things like that where he graduated in June of seventy two from the university of Washington with a degree in psychology. Why does he get green psychology for my view? He does that because he wants to be able to continue to manipulate people. One of his activities was to be involved in political campaigns governor. Evan brought down the aisle and given a tumultuous welcome. He worked for the committee to reelect and Evans he had aspirations. He wouldn't go to law school. I mean, he was thought to be sort of a rising star in the Republican party in Washington state people thought he was going to be, you know, young Ted Kennedy, but for the Republican party, but again, they saw an exterior that he worked hard to create this facade. I think a number of things conspired to make Ted Bundy Ted Bundy. Was filled with rage at his mother. Ted was illegitimate. There are a lot of things for tend to be angry about who. When you look at childhood of serial killers. There are some common themes that I see them and Ted's case where there's dysfunction in the family, and what happens is they grow up with a lot of rage typically towards women he wanted to be from family that had money and he wasn't. It's another sort of checkmark to use against his mother that she didn't marry somebody wealthy. So he didn't have to go out and steal to look wealthy. This is a guy who from the earliest age was a petty thief. He talks about having been a peeping, Tom at some point in the idea that Ted Bundy was involved in peeping actually make sense because it's basically a training ground about how you isolate people. How you watch people how you get into houses. He was a night person. He would get restless get in his car and drive for great distances. So he was a role. Mom, always one thing. We know is that as a youngster that the very early warning sign about people who become killers about mutilating animals. He was doing that animal. Mutilation is really fairly common in people who ended up being Syra Gillers just because his fascination with death. But a part of him longed to be with somebody or a part of something part of a family. He had this long time girlfriend who had a child that he spent a lot of time with them, Elizabeth clever was a young mother, and she was just getting over a terrible relationship. One night. She meets a charming stranger in a bar. It's Ted Bundy they start having an incredible relationship in her mind. I went to go meet with Liz and Liz brought out these photo albums, and I'm coming through these photo albums. It's this happy family unit. There's pictures of these three people camping birthday parties skiing. There's the young daughter. There's Elizabeth club for and there's Ted Bundy when he was what lose he's he said he really enjoyed being a family, man. He said the things that I would expect my brother to say about his family. People are complicated. And Bundy was that he was also somebody who had impulses, or at least wanted to appear as a helpful benign member of society and contributor one day in Seattle when Ted was Northgate mall, and he was coming out of the mall and saw a young man the grab a woman's purse in Ted took off after him. He managed to go and physically restrain the offender until law enforcement got their got the woman's purse back and her thirty dollars that was in her wallet. Do ultimately sort of written up as a quote, I'll good hero. He's really big on. I want attention. And that's a way to get it. Obviously. But as the years roll on T determine that no. No, I'm never going to be married. Never alive. Children. I'm never going to be the governor a never gonna be in the Terni. I'm just going and this is what makes nineteen seventy four. So extremely different. Determent? He's gonna launch himself into fulltime murder, and he's just going to keep doing it until he was captured or killed. In Seattle in the winter. The ski report is a very big deal. Because that's when you decide whether or not you're going to work or you going skiing. Wendy on. Healy was a very popular young woman because she was on the radio five days a week at seven o'clock in the morning. She gave the scare report. All of my years of studying murdered and never heard of an abduction quite like, the Linda man Healy abduction. I was one of many who listened to her in the morning, and I realized the day that she wasn't on the air that there was something unusual. She ever showed for work while the use of frequent bar Dante's to ever on the last night over life Linden. Healy went to Dante's with another girl and a friend of theirs. But he probably did follow them, home and waited and he checked the front door, and it was unlocked. This is what makes us adoption so incredibly surreal he goes down in the basement enters Healy's room, he's aware that there's another bedroom on the other side. He would tell of writer later that he choked her he moves off the bed. He takes her ninety over hangs up in the closet, and he makes the bed almost like in a military fashion. He cares at the end of the night. He takes her down the front steps and their Steve stabs to wherever's cars parked and puts her in there. He would turn passenger see around. So it was and I asked him why you did that. Because that's the way he put his cargo in in the car. As effort disgusting strange during the chances, he took it's not just that he went out and committed murder, but he seemed impervious to feel and from there the nightmare began. Then Donna Manson she disappeared from evergreen state college in their Olympia. And then you have the abduction of Susan ran court from central Washington. Susan ranked courted and Ellensburg was on her way. When meeting to see about being a dorm counselor. In may of nineteen seventy four I was at Oregon state university and reverted Kathleen parks went missing. And in those days reported just as a missing student, and these young women started disappearing and people wondered what's going on here that seemed to be a narrative that was just building in this incremental way. And then Brenda ball was of -ducted near the flame tavern. She wasn't a college student that made it all the more challenging because it it adds to the randomness of the victims. He took his victims from where he could fit in. I mean, he fit in great. They were in places that Ted Bundy feel comfortable. This is the psychological factor. You don't think killer of women is going to be a good looking or tick Hewlett young, man. You're not thinking in terms like that. Georgeanne Hawkins was a student at the university of Washington georgeanne was abducted in June of nineteen seventy four on a beautiful warm summer evening. She disappeared from an alley one night behind Greek role being a university district. People are walking around all hours. She went down the alley. There was Bundy. Mr. tape recorded interview. Bob keppel. Bundy was moving the alley using a briefcase in some crutches and the woman walked down. A so on some around the north end of the block into the alley and stop for a moment. And then keep a walking down the alley toward about halfway down the block, I encountered her and asked her to help me carry the briefcase, which she did we won't back up. The only those you look like killer. Does he look like an end of Doug of women? No, he looks like somebody in needs got like a lake cast on his on his crutches. He had placed a crowbar behind the right rear tire. What happened was not do? Unconscious or the cool bar. Was such force that she came out of one of her shoes and both are earrings rule. It was a man there along with the group and go through glitter in passengers card. Drove away. Drive to a spot that he's already picked out going to be off of a main highway Z said sometimes you check the moon out to when when it's going to be bright. And I don't want to leave my headline. So into say what I'm doing? Physical person here. One second and seconds later. They're gone, and nobody has seen anything. Georgeanne Hawkins was last seen Monday evening shortly after midnight. She had been visiting at the beta house and was returning to her house. Just a half block away down. This alley and the speed with which she would have had to of -ducted tells you that probably the person had done this before police say they will return to this alley at night to determine the lighting of the area. Meanwhile, they're asking the girls to stay out of the alleys and travel in groups of twos or threes and use only the front doors. We really could not find anything definitive that tied all the victims together these spec foul play in this disappearance. The suspect any foul play. We've just got the case this morning. And it's it's hard to say one of those any foam layer, not long short of it was that I again, knocked unconscious. Remarkably considering the circumstances under which these women disappeared. Nothing was seen or heard. There were no real clues. Nobody saw them leave with anyone. No one saw them in a automobile Ted loved nighttime because he could be out, and but not be seen. But then there's the day where he took two girls in broad daylight, and those of Dunkin's would come back to bite Bundy. And the very simple reason as people saw him. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash twenty twenty. That's indeed dot com slash twenty twenty. A wave of fear swept all across the state of Washington to us last seen Monday evening when someone wasn't deafening. Young women. Player or not. There was incredible pressure on law enforcement to find the person who was responsible for causing these women to go missing. It was an ultimate challenge. Burger. What cleverness or what sophistication of the suspect? Are you're looking for that can manage to pull that off. There were no clues whatsoever. The minutes kind of remarkable that nobody saw anything. But lex manage was another story. Waksman mistake. Clark was huge. It was a magnet for all of us. Young and old lick place. You would go to in the mid west or something with this old fashioned concession stand and people just coming out with their little sailboats or coming out to son. Joe out fourteen nineteen seventy four the place was absolutely packed forty thousand people there. A number of people that day at lake sammamish. We're taking photos and shooting film a little did. They know the police would want to review this footage. Ted was able to meld into the crowd. He was wearing casual beach type clothing. He was able to strike up conversations with people. He was able to convince today's Naslund and Janice odd to help him with the Reuss that he had a sailboat that he had his arm in a fake slang. If anybody is saying the silence of the lambs wherever the killer had that trying to get that couch into the van, and he's got cast on that that all came from Ted Bundy. Sheridan, Monday was a real scheme or. Remember that these abductions were benign on the face of them. They were always. Bundy approaching the women in a state of of presumed need or weakness, you help me carry my book, smile, arms and slang. Can you? Help me load. My sailboat onto my car. There were three women that saw Janice hot rower bicycle up to the beach in lay down. And she had on yellow bikini. Can then they observed this man walk up to her. Here. They heard her get up and say, hi, I'm Jan. And he said, I'm Ted. He gave his real name. She was last seen headed toward the parking lot pushing her bike with him walking next door. And then she's never seen again. We did have about five or six other women come forward that said that they had been approached by the guy with his arm in a sling. And they look just like Jan Assad. Denise Naslund, someone is far as the parking lot saw the Browns Volkswagen bug, but no, no boat. And at that point he said all the boats have my folks house in its acquire. It'll just take it. Those women backed off, but Jan Assad left walking with him at noon and never came back. First Janice went missing and that was early early in the morning, she disappeared. And then later he came back to the park. The time difference to one was about ten. Yeah. There was four thirty. Junior's farm K JR's Seattle and Kevin O'Brien at four zero nine. It was a Sunday afternoon, and my buddy, and I had this great idea. Well, hey, let's take a break. Let's go down to the lake maybe we can grab something to eat. And we noticed off to the side this guy just a few feet from standing in front of the women's bathroom, and he was dressed in nice casual clothes with the oddest thing about it is he had a cast on his arm four seventeen in K J R's Seattle. So we were going to actually being a couple of smart Aleck teenagers who are thinking. Maybe razzing the guy a little bit. But it turned out. It was our turn to get ice cream. So we, you know, lost track of the guy didn't think anything more about it. Twenty six Nelson was abducted. Those abductions were very brazen. And in front of literally thousands of witnesses, but the witnesses did not know what they were seeing. With regard to these Naslund her cards in the parking lot. Her purse is still her her keys to riccar still there. But she's done is good. Does that satiated with just one thing? He was trying to make a statement that day. For Ted the thrill of coin back to where he'd been successful in the morning and being able to abduct another woman was probably. Very exciting for him. It was almost the Africa the way to women disappeared. It was as if the the stakes of the story had been raised in this dramatic way. It was also critical that people who were at the park that day who were taking photographs of their friends and family any filming that they had done turned over their photographs and filmed to us to see if we could find something that would be a clue. The like Samantha objections would come back to bite Bundy. People saw him and he identified themselves as Ted there's a Ted, and he drives the Volkswagen, and he's handsome and from the witnesses that saw him were composite drawings made. When the picture came out, you know, when they finally got eight Ted Bundy picture of this person of interest. No question in our minds. No question that this was the guy h lead has to be followed. Every phone call has to be made mostly some pan out whether speck of information that may someday help clear up the mystery of the whereabouts of Janice and an east Nadler. And it was a very creepy sensation knowing that we were just steps away from somebody who is ultimately responsible for doing some very very very dastardly dis. One thing since the publication of the description of the man called Ted there have been no further disappearances from this area. John Sandifer for ABC news in Seattle. Find. Intelligent, others. Nineteen year old and he's Naslund and year old Janice aut disappear on a warm summer day at lake sammamish. Though, there was no sign of the women. Several witnesses told of a smooth talking good looking young man named Ted. Keet was starting to come upon him because of his daylight adventures in lake sammamish. Clues. Now, the guy named Ted of VW a composite sketch funding if you want to keep killing he was going to have to go somewhere where there was no investigation. So what is Bundy do? He has the presence of mind to move from the Washington area to Utah. And again, he starts changing his tactics finally killing Brown use excuse going to Utah law score that he gave Liz the option of going with him. He was her prints. She had dreams of him becoming an attorney and having a white picket fence was probably delighted when she said, no, I want to stay in Seattle conference at the houseboat where I lived and and pitcher of him. What makes this photo that has surfaced from Maryland Cheinal? So in credibly interesting and incredibly important is because he's. Stressed been basically the same outfit that he warned at lake sammamish on July fourteenth of nineteen seventy four. She was crying. And I just you know, kind of gave him a good bye. And he got in the car and drove away. Within twelve or so hours. He would be murdering the Idaho Iger. After this picture appeared the task force received one call among thousands of others. This particular caller said a man named Ted Bundy looked quote, something like the picture. Tuned in. And the police never did anything with it called the police more than once stating that she believed her boyfriend Ted Bundy was the color. Bundy went to university of Utah school of wall. When I was there at the law school, I would have regular contact with Ted Bundy, and everyone really there were periods of time when he was absent from class and people would occasionally comment on that all Ted's gone, again, the first semester he's in class three times. He's like a kid in a candy store up at in in Utah around four women in the end just a matter of weeks. Get mad at myself. She weeks later because it has to mine other pair comical, but that's what everything Bundy had within. What is known as moderate get. There were reasons behind it the tire and the garage, and of course, gloves, and it wouldn't matter the item on the planned very carefully to use everything that he had his standard Merck at it wasn't the items there weren't there by chance. They all had a reason. The raw connected the martyr. He said, I always tried to get rid of all all the evidence. That would put me to the crime said that meant I had to restock Mike toll kid all the time. Bundy ran to the Mormon church is kind of refuge kind of thing that was his angle at that point. They didn't know it was a bad guy. So they took him they meant damn joined the church by baptize tat after we discussed the church with him and he made commitments. So we immediately started inviting to our social events parties dinners, and he was a gourmet cook. And he cooked dinner for about seven of us fabulous cook. And we chatted and had fun and played games. It's actually not uncommon for sue killers to have quote unquote, a normal life whether violently killing people shortly after seven o'clock on the evening of November the eighth nineteen seventy-four Carol Dhiraj park Takhar, and this parking lot at the fashion mall shortly after began what she now calls her personal nightmare. What makes the Carol the raunch obstruction? So pivotal is that she's the only one who ever got away from. Money. She was approached by a man near Roldan's bookstore. This man of dinovite himself as officer Rosalyn. And he said, do you drove a Camaro? She said, yes. So we'll my partners holding the suspect in this individual tried to get into the car. Just starting to feel a little uneasy night thought I could smell alcohol, and that's when he just promptly pulled out. His wallet showed me a bad, but we walked across the street to a laundry mad, and there was a side door marked one thirty nine. And he said that was a substation. Anyone drive and he said the doors locked he said, they would have to go down to the main Murray police department to sign a complaint drama Volkswagon, which I thought we'll bass kind of odd, but maybe undercover and I got in. He had a downside straight. And then he suddenly pulled over a on the side of a curve by an elementary school. And that's when I just start freaking out. What are we doing accordia talks? She knows she's in the fight for her life, and he grabbed my arm, and he got one hand of on one rest, and he didn't get the other one on and the one was. Dangling. I had never been so frightened in my tire life. She jumped out of the car. The man jumped out waving what looked like a crowbar. She broke loose ran to the street flag down a passing car and an elderly couple roved raunch to the Murray police station, the search for her doctor began, and so this is the first time we have an eyewitness of somebody who survives a Bundy attack. Sometimes the the urges become such a compulsion that they can't control themselves. And that's when they make mistakes, his compulsion. That day was so high he had to kill somebody the first one didn't work out. He's now frustrated and so he goes to find a second victim. We were having dinner and department. It was when the composite pitchers of a so-called Ted murder were coming out in Salt Lake City because a girl had been kidnapped and she had survived and Ted said, I know how someone could do this. You would kidnap the person in one county take her to a second county murder. Her throw her clothing in a fourth county on her body or body parts somewhere else. I think Ted was a little proud of how it how he was getting away with it and explained exactly how he was doing knowing that we wouldn't ever catch on at the same time while he's committee new murders in Utah. The cops in the state of Washington are finding bones, and those bones are ultimately going to come back to haunt him. The bodies of four more young women were found on Taylor. Mountain all of them had been strangled or bludgeoned by this brutal killer. The heat is building up on Ted then starts looking for a do killing field. Colorado. It's the winner of nineteen seventy five and Ted bundy's. Gotta find a place where there's not a lot of talk about missing women and where he can blend in. So he heads up the mountains to Colorado. He was very familiar with ski resorts in Colorado already understood that those places are populated by basically strangers, and he was fit in quite well, he ends up in Aspen. On January twelfth nineteen seventy-five Karen Campbell disappeared from the wild would end. The end up at the Wildwood. Karen Campbell was a nurse from Michigan. She had come to the world with that just like David four Karen Campbell sat with her fiance. Dr Raymond Godot ski in front of a fire in the lobby of the Wildwood end, they had just finished dinner miss Campbell wanted a magazine from her room about eight o'clock in the evening. She caught the elevator to the lobby to the second floor. That was the last time. The Dow sqi saw her alive. These there. Anyway. She was gone. Thirty six days later, her nude body was found almost three miles away. True months later, he heads over to Vail and ends up killing twenty six year old ski instructor. Julie cunningham. He was just not gonna stop had more relationships with dead women by now than living women. There was all about the haunt. Bundy goes on this killing spree. It costs north west. And he kills three women a twenty four year old fifteen year old and a twelve year old. There was no pattern between Seattle and Utah and Colorado. There was no physical tide of them. There was nothing to loopless altogether. In the summer of nineteen seventy-five, bundy's lock is changing. He was going from being the hunter to being the hunted. In Grainger, Utah's a small suburb. It was like two o'clock in the morning. Compas just getting off duty is name was Bob Hayward. And he saw Volkswagen parts in front of our house. You knew their two young women living there. Neck core. Kicked the burden. My lights on bright stepped on the gas. And he's it. Dale, okay. All big mistake. So there was a chase. He pulled a meal gas station stops stopped all my door. And he was out coming back towards me. I pull my magnum out to sit in the crotch the door unless his whole right there. Standstill. When Hayward comes up with the car. He sees that the seat is out. Electon that side. This e was leeann in the backseat. Quarter space. You can stick a body. He says the seats broke out again. Thanks. If I look through your car. In his car. He had what we would call burglary tools. The ski mask pantyhose with the is cut out. He had a pair of handcuffs. I'm a law student use them in my classes. Now, what is the person doing out in the middle of the night in a residential neighborhood with all of those items and he's driving of? Okay. So I can buck. I took him in and booked him. I there something wrong with his guy. That putting on the radar of Utah law enforcement, and they had this unsolved abduction of Iran. I got a call and it was dead. He says I've been arrested. What were you arrested for all? They think I'm the Ted murderer. And he laughed. I laughed. I didn't think he was guilty. When he came to the police lineup. We made all sorts of attempts to make himself facially difficult to identify part of his hair on the other side. So he did have a chameleon like quality. Carol Durant came to the police station was shown a lineup and was able to identify Bundy as the person who attacked. He was arrested and charged with the kidnapping apparel. Watch a likable guy. And if he could be a killer who else might be so people just didn't want to believe it. I helped raise money to Bailey matted jail. Everybody in the ward fell. He was innocent. I was assigned. Ted bundy's case by the office opposes fence ten. Immediately said something is silly little case in Utah. Kind of I'm rooting it's not a slew little case. During court proceedings in Utah Bundy, actually comes outside and talks to the media. Do you feel about the Justice system in your head? Well, I'm sure it works. You've got to have faith little work or else, you do you be reduced to some kind of in a mumbling idiot. I believe it works. I believe it needs to be improved. When you mentioned improvements does that mean, ultimately, you want to get involved in the criminal Justice? Yes. I intend to complete my legal education and become a lawyer and be a damn good lawyer. Whether you testify or not is one of the only things that defendant has the sole decision making power over and Ted. Of course ignored vice testified in. Was the worst witness of the world? He was an arrogant. Basically. And that's the way he came across on the stand. At the trial Dhiraj picked out Bundy as her objector. I pointed out him said he was he was the one. He was the man that tried to kidnap me. Thought he did lie about everything get away with it. It's pretty hard to explain why you drive around with an ice pick and a pantyhose mask most of us. Don't have that in our cars. Ted Bundy was convicted of kidnapping Carol Dirac. Verdict is guilty. He was going to be headed to Utah state prison. Police officers from Utah, Washington state and Colorado get together share notes and determine that they're all talking about the same guy. Everybody knew it was there, man. It was just a case of proving. But. He's planning the scape. Anybody else that done bad things? The question is. Here does I mean years after this? We're still talking about the person they invented the terms through killer for. He referred to the women in his folks again as cargo as advocates. You don't think killer of women is going to be a good looking articulate lost in the ladies loved. He was entertaining funny. There were clues. Now, the guy named Ted w a composite sketch that was an intruder and the column latest Rory house. He had with him some sort of club. Sleep in my room, and yet evil opened the door and attack me, but I was dealing with a beast Damon. Ted Bundy, a Washington state resident was convicted last year of the kidnap assault of a young woman from Salt Lake City after bundy's convicted of the kidnapping imperilled Doron. Detectives have found evidence linking into the murder of Karen Campbell on January twelfth nineteen seventy-five Karen Campbell disappeared from the wild would end. Here's in his Volkswagen bug of victims from Colorado in Utah. And that gave them enough evidence to file on him in Colorado who was a first degree murder and kidnapping charge. They transferred him they took into the jail and Asman. At that point Ted Bundy had become pretty big news. I called the sheriff. I asked him if I speak with Ted Bundy. We sat in this narrow sell to the interview you are not guilty. Not guilty. Does that include the time? I still comic book when I was five years old. I'm not guilty terrorists which have been filing into such a pleasant full calm demeanor. I wasn't at all convinced. He was guilty. He's the most pleasant killer Burr interviewed no man is truly innocent. I mean, we all transgressed in some way in our lives. I've been impolite and their things event having done in my life. But nothing like the things I think that jury for two creeps kind of grew on me when he talked about feeling for the family. I've been told. That, you know, the parents of these these girls are fairly decent people. I don't know. And I really feel for that. Because apparently they suffered some credible tragedy in their lives. You could tell he was just mouthing the words they didn't really sink into him feels much for anybody. Can I ask him to physician made him angry? And he said, yes, I don't like being locked up for something. I didn't do like my liberty taken away. And I don't like being treated like an animal, and I like like people walking around at awfully me like in some sort of weirdo because you think about getting out of here. Well, legally, sure. Graduating about a month. Law school becomes we're he was assisting in his own defense. He had a right to go use the library. This is involved or courthouse allow library was up on the top floor. Judge decreed that he didn't have to wear shackles handcuffs. So he walked about the courtroom and back into the law library is the Freeman. The number of opportunities to just walk right out. It's a great deal about escape. And I didn't know if I had the guts to do it cry frankly. Picture of him coming into the building that morning, then he's got a really concentrated look on his face. He addressed with an extra layer or he had a sweater onto the one on the outside. So he was planning to go that day. Dard went outside for the windows are open in the fresh air blood through the sky was blue. And I ready to go to war with window. Joe tout. Honest to God. I just got tired of me. He was gone about ten minutes before anyone realized that came out and shouted Bundy escaped. Reporters. Ran to the courthouse in Aspen because this was such a big deal. Jumped out of this second story window at the front of the Pitkin county courthouse this morning. He was scheduled for a court appearance and apparently had been locked into the law library by sheriff's deputies at both ends of town. The sheriff's department put up roadblocks they were warning people. If you see this man, be sure and call the police when was seen. About ten thirty this morning. I'm going to jump from the window. Then he went up to the mountains and Aspen, and he broke into a cabin you stayed in the cabinet few days to Aspen to this car, which was unlocked and have keys and you've Nishin he drives through downtown Aspen tavern. It was a terrible driver, by the way, and there was a patrol car, and they see this car weaving. This is late. It must be drunk. Well, he wasn't drunk. It was Ted Bundy back. He goes. Here. You can see him grinning when he's been captured. He always acted like he pulled one over on on everybody. He was moved to a facility in Glenwood springs. Thous- one of the staff photographers at the Seattle times. I was given a chance to photograph is fellow named Ted. She had shackles and I can lay on the floor and photograph all kinds of different ways. He wanted to be seen. I'm Ted Bundy booking me captured. But in his own mind, I'm not gonna be here for long. South. There was a great in the ceiling that was not secured. There was a light fixture that was due to being welded. It had not been welded. When I visited him and Glenwood noticed that he had lost a lot of weight loss twenty twenty five pounds. I would think this would have come to the attention of jailers. Perhaps why is he doing this? His law books and assembled them more with some pillows to make it look as if there were body in the bed Bundy had succeeded in carving a big enough opening in the ceiling of his cell. He lost so much weight that he was able to wriggle through called through the ducting just like in the movie. Came down into the closet and jailer's apartment near the job. It wasn't there. And he put on civilian clothes astounding stuff, and he gets out into the night and these free again. They woke up in Glenwood springs discovered at Bundy headed escaped basically, twelve hours before. As you think it was possibly get out this way, we've eliminated what we felt that that time any possible escape route from the roof. However, we were wrong these keystone cops as the paper referred to them ask let this guy go again Garfield county, doing play them. We're looking everywhere trains buses, and this the usual thing I have no idea where he is. He should be very careful should check on their neighbors. Make sure their cars are secure. We're just looking I couldn't believe anybody. Let them escape twice. This is bad. Ted bundy's on the loose. And they have no idea where he is. Once he escaped he had an opportunity to go somewhere and disappear. But he couldn't even do that. He had to kill again. Bundy's escaped bordered on a Houdini escapade through a twelve inch by twelve inch hole in the ceiling. On the escaped. Detectives said it's gonna kill again. It's just a matter of time. We don't know where win but he will kill again. The we now have to wait. We now have to wait. Me chicago. Took a train offer stole a car. Drove south to Atlanta and trailways bus to Callahan's e. Florida State University printout has the campus will generally safe and secure that we've not unusual three o'clock in the morning to see people walking back and forth off cat felt safe. Coming. I had joined this forty Kyle mak- living at Cayo. My parents felt was my safer than to live in the dormitory being mega was a wonderful part of my life was just like living with forty friends. Early morning hours. So ten fifteen twenty three o'clock and three fifteen. There was an intruder in the cow mega sorority house. He had with him some sort of wooden club. Dave patrol that night with my partner, we approximate two blocks away from the Kyle mega house when we heard a call come on the radio. So we go straight there. As I stepped into the girls were yelling about stairs upstairs. And there was a lot of cry. And at the top of the stairs, girl. Name carry Chandler. And she was down on the floor. She was bleeding quite badly. Head injuries pretty much everybody. My face is broken. My front teeth were mostly gone after we're going to water it happened. She said there was a loud banging noise, then she made mention about her roommate, Kathy cloud. Her injuries were much more. Extensive jaws actually hanging off. I remember than laying on my bed and trying to talk, and I couldn't make any noise because my job was broken in three places decided to go ahead and start a room by run. Search a knock on the door from the moment. And then get a response. I open the door. And I went up pull the covers back, and I could see to strangle and beaten about the head. You could tell you that. So I stepped across the hallway and there was another body in the bed. Lisa leaving was being severely about the head and body. She also strangled and a bite. Mark was left her. Is so hard see those girls that. That. So sorry for their families. Tend to have insurance bad back. If you were here of this attack and the familiar with on these crimes, and you don't Colorado you biggest the same Rosen. His now on the run he's lost control. So he does something a little planning high risk taking on multiple women. These on a frenzy. After this horrendous attack Kyle mega he goes just about four or five blocks away ended up at a we call the Dunwoody residents, which was the residence of Cheryl Thomas, I was a student Florida State University, and I was a dance major. I woke up to this loud. Banging sound. Then we could hear Cheryl moaning whimpering, and I called Cheryl. We could hear the phone ringing because the wall was so thin, but she wasn't answering her phone, and that's what possessed me to call. The police department. Senate investigator immediately to that location. She went in and she found Cheryl Thomas on the floor in blood, and beaten, I learned that he came in through my kitchen window. He had worn a hose over his face. He pulled that off in that was dropped on my floor. If I did not have my neighbors calling. I don't think I would have survived. Oh my gosh. I mean, he left her for dead. I think it was a couple of days before I woke up, and I didn't know what had happened. I remember flashes. If things that basically what Cup intensive care. I could not get the funeral. I wanted to call the feelings, but. It wasn't fair. It wasn't right that that should happen to them. They were both beautiful wonderful people. I was shocked and wondering who he was and why he had done what he did is no reasoning behind it. I was asleep in my room and yet evil door and attack me remained worried and badly frightened scared. Just walk into class and keeping doors. Locked. I knew that I was dealing with a beast Damon playmate a personal commitment. This person would pay. I said we're taking vitam pressures from you Ted Bundy said you can't do that. I said, yes, I can I have a warrant to search your mouth. From New York. This is the ABC weekend. You four young women were beaten with a club and two of them were strangled to death last night by a man who found his victim sleeping in this sorority house. I was leaving the sorority house driving. And I got a call over radio that there's an investigator that wants to talk to me from out west I talked to the investigator, and I wrote down a name that he gave me that he thought maybe I should look into. That name was Ted Bundy. But obviously, I did think that was possible. The MO of Duchesne in a car didn't fit the MO of potentially objecting some person and taking them somewhere, perhaps in the woods, a murdering them that did Vitton. So what we had was fresh murder in a house. So I was somewhat dismissive. When I was at the morgue, and I looked at the bodies on Lisa lead. There was a fight left. That was very important. Person that Lisa Levy once policed. And then went back him a second town almost an executive cycle. I mean, it was done so perfectly that I just believed in my heart that it was a signature. About three weeks after the Cayo mega tax Intel has e. There comes word from Lake City. That's about ninety miles east of Tallahassee that junior high school student Kimberly Leach as disappeared during the middle of the smolder. It was raining drizzly, very dreary day went to are designated spot to meet up to go to our next class together. And she wasn't there. We knew something was wrong Kim was not a student to skip class to leave campus. I mean, we were twelve and she was very shy firefighter coming home. Walking across the campus Kimba on. He assumed that he was father police urging anyone with any information about Kimberly leads to contact them as soon as possible. In Pensacola a month after the car mega taxes. This man is arrested on a traffic. Stop the altar native stop because of the unusual behavior of Volkswagen. Hey, walked up to the vehicle. Within it crackles over the radio that this is a stolen vehicle. The officer and they have quite an encounter when this when I was putting place in the handcuff. So I'm he kicked my feet out from under me and struck me with a handcuff that have been placed on one risk kind. Of course, not meal feet. And that's started falling. Following out of pistol-whipping. He's got this round. Claim right here. That's where you hit him with that pistol barrel on he spends a couple of days stonewalling, the police who is this man. He refused to give his name to authorities. And then told his arresting officer many would probably get a promotion for nabbing him. They find out that his driver's licenses. And who is the car is driving doesn't belong to him. He's Justice mystery guy to people who want most know who he is our Tallahassee detective Steve Bodiford, Don patching the asset there with him. I gave me MS Reid. I asked him his name was. I started. Where'd you get VW thrown? Is it I stole from you. What about all these credit cards while I got him out of people that were next door in the maga- house. The mystery man will be kept behind bars for three more weeks before returning to court to win a replete officials say by then they hope to know who he is. He says to the police I'll tell you who I am just let me make a phone call, and he calls his old girlfriend blues club from the scribe telephone call. He said that he was in custody repeated over and over again that this was really going to be bad when it broke that it was not gonna break tomorrow morning in the press for this going to be really ugly. Finally tells officers I am Ted Bundy. His name is Theodore Bundy, and he's wanted for questioning and thirty six on day, one of the FBI's ten most one it is a custody in Pensacola and as a suspect in last month sexual when he was apprehended in custody. He would laugh and say, oh kin the evidence is there. You just couldn't find it. But I did. We had the bite marks that night from the more. I personally wouldn't sleep thinking. How can I get an impression from him? We can't enter his mouth. We can't remove evidence. Unless we have a search warrant. The search more in order to compare bundy's teeth to the bag Mark that was left only. I went late at night too. And I said tad. You're coming with me. We took him to my dentist's office. Now, he started a mmediately saying you can't do this. Can you can't do this without my attorney? I said, yes, I can. But I want you to listen carefully. Because it says from the judge that we can use force. He looked at me. You could see he resigned just his whole body guy. He sat down in the dental chair. Leaned back opened his mouth and said do what you have to do. Can you know, I'm not a violent person? About two months after she went missing, Kimberly. Their body was found. Been marred. She's been placed in Elaine to shed and the hog banned in this wanted area on one arm. Don't understand even when you hear the details. You can't comprehend it as being a twelve year old in this is your classmate who was just innocent grand jury issued a sealed indictment, which presumably names Bundy for the order of twelve year old Kimberly Diane leaked the evidence against him in the Kimberly Leach case ranged from eyewitness testimony people seeing him grabbing or fibers receipts location who's putting together pieces of puzzle where starting to put all this together. And we're tying it up, and what appears to be now. One bundle already two dozen law enforcement agencies told the Pensacola police that they want to talk with Bundy the walls are clearly closing in on Ted of indict it's all you're gonna get Ted Bundy, the master manipulator makes a move that. No one thought was cutting called witness. On Wednesday at winging marry me. She said, yes, I do ties are they what's going on. What we have here. Always say right on Tarita. For the Kyle mega-mergers. Grand jury in Tallahassee issued an indictment against Ted Bundy can consult the share of of Leon county with the cameras rolling the lights on read through the whole indictment. They had Robert founding charged. And of course, he kept in a rotating me. But I I just kept on. It was combination crime drama combination political theater. He's still look like the boy next door until that night that indictments were read. And that's when the devil came out. He looked each of us in the I this was the killer in that room. You could feel it. I'll plead not guilty right now and your grandeur. After Ted is charged with a murders and assaults that Florida state. You still all these cases not west clearly Florida has the best evidence in. So the prosecutors got together and said, look we're going to prosecute Ted Bundy from our perspective I wanted to get Bundy off the streets forever. The trial got off kind of slowly because Bundy was not cooperating with his attorneys. Ted Bundy wanted to be the one who is in Chartres, Ana I'm here today because I served my innocence. The judge allowed Ted Bundy to act as co counsel for defend that to be part of the faintest team is extraordinarily unusual. It's happened. Exactly. Once in my career that was Mr. Bundy he had gone to law school. This wasn't so far fetched for him to be in a courtroom. And so instead of being the guy in the orange jump. Suit who looked like that crazy serial killer suspect, he was the lawyer guy lawyer representing self has a fool for a client. And I want to caution you about that. But I'm not going to deny you that. Right. It's the ideal stage for Ted Bundy p self-assured he thinks he can manipulate and convince a jury through his charm and good looks that he couldn't have possibly committed these crimes. Every day during the trial courtroom was filled some reporters, but mostly spectators, a number of them were young women. Who are I think just drawn to the allure of seeing this guy on trial. Carol Boone was one of the constant personalities. Carol Boone actually met on the back in his Washington state days. So she knew him before any of these things happen. She was his advocate. She called him bunny. She was affected towards him literally sort of pulls her into his web convinces her. He's not guilty. Your conclusion is what that he did not commit the murders in Washington state that he did not abduct Carol ranch that he did not murder or of duct any of the other women in Utah that he did not kill Karen Campbell that he did not commit the crimes kind of mega in Lake City or on Dunwoody street, Tallahassee was a true believer. And she wanted everybody else to have. The same conviction that he was not guilty person. I called the Ray crew the Floresta university police department to kind of set the scene of what he saw whenever he got to the cow mega house up until then Mr. Bundy had led his lawyers cross examined the other witnesses. And for some reason Mr. bunion decided that he wanted to crossing salmon officer crew. Bunnies. Cross examination in my mind was the determining factor in the case. He asked him to describe indie tale this horrific crime scene. Describe what you saw. As much detail. Call. She was live basically faced down. There was considerable amount of love around her head mad at her hair on the walls. And there was a palpable reaction in the courtroom and amongst jury when he did that. What? Docking netted around her neck as I was describing her injuries in the blood his grip on the lectern tightened up. His breathing became shallow, and sped up and his eyes actually got a little bit larger. I had the distinct impression that he was precariously reliving it and enjoy it was so chilling. It was sickening. As the trial went into its final week Bundy claimed he didn't know how he got caught up in the web of crimes the week began with the prosecution introducing evidence to prove that Ted Bundy was the man seen by an eyewitness leaving the scene of the crime. That Ted bundy's hair matched hairs found in a penny. Hose mask that a bite. Mark left on one of the victims could have been made only by Ted Bundy. Evidence was both new and unorthodox and compelling in the trial. Defendant was cool and collected throughout most of the trial minutes before the verdict was returned Bundy told ABC news and a telephone interview that he was prepared for the worst. Verdicts. State of Florida versus. Defendant the door Monday as to council the indictment murder in the first degree of one Margaret Bowman guilty as charged. Ted's ultimately, convicted, basically all the charges. The jury recommends he gets death. The judging gives death was further ordered that on such scheduled that you'd be put today. After the Kyle mega trial ended. And he was convicted in those murders. He was then facing a new trial. The second trial was over the kidnapping and murder Kimberly Leach, which occurred in Lake City, Florida. It was a very compelling circumstantial evidence case, and in my opinion, much stronger than the case in Miami. And it did not surprise me at all the verticals guilty, then a Bill failures Bundy represented himself, and he called hero by and on Wednesday and had her test about how much she loved him. And so the out of the blue happens. He actually proposes to Carol booed in front of a camera. Mary. Lamour you on our now live at that time under Florida law. If you ask someone to marry the person says, yes, and there's a notary public there. It's a legal marriage. So. Signed sale limited and they married her there in the middle of piddly, folks. So now Ted Bundy is a convicted murderer. He's a new husband, and he is ineffective Dead Man Walking. I don't think anybody else that I've done some bad things. The question is what course and how? Most importantly wide. Interesting. People costly little ask me. Ted bundy's now on death row, and you have a whole range of people who still want to talk to him. We don't understand what makes a person like that click. What what drove him to do what he did. And so we won't to try to five figure that out. Ted Bundy, primarily talked about Keppel homicide detective from Seattle and Bill Hegg Meyer, an F B I profiler, we were interviewing serial killers. Rape. We're looking for understanding, and how you or someone like you got away with what you did. And he said, do you think I'm going to say I did anything to you? And I said, no, I don't think so at all I'm just going to ask you your perceptions on different cases heathen launches into conversations about quote, unquote, helping them with other serial killers. Go a hobby. In telling things about what might have done. He's actually telling on himself. Became clear to me. And he went back to his grime saints returning to see. But. I mentioned whatever drives to do that. Curiosity or desire? Make sure didn't leave it here. Or just some kind of thrill place will always be sacred to them thickly if he killed there. While Ted Bundy is on death row. He's even figured out a way to manipulate the system and possibly father a child you married. Carol Boone think the guards allow them to have an element of privacy to where he could have sexual intercourse with are. There were pictures at the time of Ted Bundy with Carol and child it it's clear. The photograph was taken on death row. On January twenty four th at seven AM. The death warrant will be in effect. Just a few days before his execution. He decides he's going to start confessing because he felt that. If he finally starts rolling out information, perhaps the state will keep him alive indefinitely. He became very desperate. And he wanted to offer. The authorities something called bones for time. Only one possession this information. That's just the way it is to do a proper job for everybody. We're going to I'm gonna eat some time. Bill Mayer was quite successful in getting Bundy to actually confess. What I was a little bit earlier. We came up with thirty which just trying to summarize what states they were in when periods of time, California or lush, I know Utah. Colorado Florida between nineteen. Three. Experts think the number is much higher than it could have been well over one hundred, but we'll never know you said much of these girls were good Christian or Jewish girls. He said whose parents bought them up to love and help other people when he said I exploited that it it's possession. I can just look in your eyes and their their last breath comes on that breath is mine and part of me forever. Talked about, you know, having sex with them while they were unconscious or having sex with them, which is called necrophilia after they've died. I'm not sure how many you to several the heads from the victims. And where do cO thirty. Oh, that's. He wrote down twelve you know, on a piece of paper while he was saying half dozen. He wrote twelve now all of a sudden he wants to tell the truth to be negotiating his life or the bodies of victims. This despicable. Pupa fifteen years. A couple of months is not going to make any difference. Don't go with a martyr. Don't negotiate with a killer. One of the things that had been traditionalist that death row inmates. Bent allowed last interview of their choosing bundy's had chosen duct James Dobson. I don't wanna die. I'm not gonna kiss you. Okay kitchen. Dr James Dobson was a crusader against pronography well-meaning decent people will condemn behavior. Of the Ted Bundy while they're walking path to a magazine rack full the very kinds of things that send young kids down the road to be Ted bundy's Dame option interview, Ted bundy's last que asp attempt at avoiding that they have penalty by becoming an anti pornography spokesperson Ted Bundy is to die at this point at seven AM tomorrow morning. It was really festive atmosphere there even Ted Bundy t shirts for sale. People chewing that we're seeing. Plight. Now, bundy's meeting with the ministering one of those deathrow behind me in a few minutes is head will be shaved as he's prepared for execution. We came in room. He was scared to. Just as why sheet he'd been shaving? He didn't look like the boy next door has head was completely bald. And I literally saw him these just collapse when he saw the chair knew he wasn't gonna get away. There was fear real fear Ted Bundy and a knowledge that he was going to die. The white smoke was assigned. That Florida's electric chair was powered up prison. Officials say the execution is on schedule. Komo. I said. Crawl over. Swish been thrown. Plate you say. Ellen. How wonder how many throats time around? Peter Bundy was executed at seven sixteen this foreign incur the electric chair toward state prison. At seven sixteen this morning. Bundy was indeed executed the hers with his remains pass by the street. I remember sitting on the sofa with my fiance and crying and feeling that Lisa and Margaret finally at peace. It's been thirty years since Ted bending was executed. We collectively still have this fascination about him an anniversary like that always provides an opportunity to kind of look back and see what the legacy of somebody was sack Ephron plays Ted Bundy, and in many ways, we are taking his kind of teen heartthrob image and turning that on its head. Understanding why women were so attracted to this charismatic killer through Zack's performance. At the center of the Ted Bundy story is the idea that you could have sat next to him that you could have been in a relationship with him. And yet had no idea of what he was up. There was the outside Bundy. And then there was the inside Bundy a whole different world right behind his eyes. I think the continuing fascination with Mr. Bundy results from a myth that he is charming intelligent individual. And that somehow that charm and intelligence was involved in the murder of these women. When in fact, he didn't charm these women, he tricked them. He attacked them bashed him in their head. And he killed him. Being a rare survivor of Ted Bundy, it makes me feel like I have to represent those women who did not survive. And I hope that I always can do that. Because I don't want him forgotten. Feel absolutely new animosity towards any other to death row. But. Still hate they had Mundy and eighty onto the day on. Die. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash twenty twenty. That's indeed dot com slash twenty twenty.

Ted Bundy Ted Bundy Donna Manson Seattle murder Utah VW Washington Ted Kennedy Karen Campbell Colorado university of Washington Washington officer lake sammamish Pacific northwest Elizabeth clever Bob United States
Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile

You Can't Make This Up

26:27 min | 1 year ago

Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil and Vile

"Welcome to you can't make this up a companion podcast from net. Flicks. I'm revolver, and I'm hosting this week's episode here. And you can't make this up. We go behind the scenes of Netflix original true crime stories with special guests this week. We're bringing you extremely wicked shockingly evil, and vile this much anticipated film premiered at the Sundance film festival, and it starts Zach Ephron as the serial killer. Ted Bundy today, we're speaking with the film's director, Joe Berlinger. Not only did Joe direct. This feature film about Ted Bundy he also directed. The Netflix original four part docu series conversations with a killer. The Ted Bundy tapes back in February we interviewed the author of the book that series is based on. But don't worry Joe gets into both the series and the film in this month's episode. And here to chat was Joe is Aaron Lamour one of the host of the podcast long form. And now here's Aaron Joe. Do you? Remember, the events of this Bundy case like do you remember reading about it in real time in newspapers and that kind of stuff I remember being captivated by the trial itself. And in fact, you know, one of the reasons that I wanted to do both of these projects, you know, conversations with a killer, and then the scripted movie, extremely wicked is that trial really made an impression on me because it was the first time that cameras were allowed in a courtroom. And I remember back then being fascinated by the coverage and twenty five years into my filmmaking career as someone who has spent a lot of time doing crime. I kind of look at the Bundy trial as the big bang of our current obsession, our current fascination with true crime because that was the first time cameras wherever lead in the courtroom. And to me, that's a very watershed of. Vent in the history of the American legal system as well as very important moment in the history of true crime. Because for the first time ever Americans could sit in their living room like me when I was a teenager and watch serial murderer and serial rape as live entertainment. And I think that was the it's not the only event I mean Truman Capote writing in cold blood was, you know, obviously a big event in the history true crime. But I think our current obsession with true crime really can be traced back to a few key moments. And I think Bundy was one of them that that Bundy trial is there like a conflicted feeling you have as documentarian where you're like, this is kind of horrific there's cameras in the car room. But, wow, this footage is going to be great. When someone makes a movie about this in twenty years. I do have very conflicted feelings about the whole. And I don't think there's an easy answer to the whole issue of Cam. Mera's in the courtroom. For example. You know, I think I'm best known for the paradise lost trilogy that Bruce and offs gain. I made. And I mean, I don't want this to sound boastful. I don't, but you asked me the question I mean, but clearly Damien Echols would be dead. If cameras weren't allowed in the courtroom, and if we hadn't made paradise loss, I think that was a good use of cameras in the courtroom, a good use of filmmakers covering a story. I mean, that's the thing. You know? I I've been called a true crime pioneer, whatever that means. I like the pioneer part the true crime part kind of makes me wince a little bit because true crime that phrase true crime has, you know, I think for many people it conjures up the image that we're all wallowing in the misery of others for purely entertainment purposes, and were exploiting victims and the worst moment of their life for pure, entertainment purposes. And some of that stuff does there's some shows. Some stuff out there. That's just pure, you know, exercise in exploitation. I would like to think the work. I do you know, it has some element of social Justice to it. Whether it's shining a light on wrongful conviction advocating for criminal Justice reform, which number of my television shows have done and what I do personally when I'm not making films. I I'm involved in these issues. You know, I think that I choose subjects that allow me to make some kind of social commentary and even with this. You know, my focus on Bundy, you know, I made this movie and the docu series really for a younger generation who does not know Bundy, and for whom the lessons of Bundy can't be overstated which is just because somebody looks and access certain way. It doesn't mean you should trust them. And I think that's an important message for people. So for me, the attraction of Bundy was to provide some kind of social commentary about our obsession with true crime social commentary about, you know, the nature of evil, those kinds of things, you know, the first thing I did before I did either of these projects I called my daughter's up I have two college age daughters. Very bright young women. And I asked them, do, you know who Ted Bundy is and they did not, and they asked some friends, and they came back to me and said, you know, well, a few people knew he was a killer serial killer, but none of us really know much about him. And that to me suggested now is the time to tell the story. Again for that demographic for that audience. Which is why casting Zach Ephron for me was the perfect choice. I mean, he was my first choice. And luckily said yes, but for a certain demographic of mainly young women, but men women for certain demographics. Zach is a guy who has just beloved because of his image who can do no wrong who people just blindly trust and to take that teen heartthrob image and turn it on its head. And have that be a vehicle for the audience to experience what goes on when you're being seduced by somebody who is capable of evil to me, it just gave a real physical way to allow that to happen were portraying the experience of how Bundy was able to gaslight people and who better than somebody who a is terrific actor and can do the role and be somebody who means so much to. Certain demographic. So that they can have the experience of liking the character throughout much of the movie, and then when the movie gets dark, and by the end of the movie when Liz played by lily Collins, confronts him at the end in that very dramatic final seen on death row. Don't wanna give too much away. But when Liz confronts Ted and holds him accountable, which is important in this era of accountability. We had to have the character hold Ted responsible. Admit to what he's done. Obviously, Liz finally emotionally realizes the horrible person. She's been living with and she feels disgusted and betrayed. I want the audience to feel that same, you know, to have an empathetic experience a feeling that same level of disgust and betrayal. I literally want the audience to say that themselves. Oh, man. I was liking this character. Even though intellectually I news is Ted Bundy, I was liking this character and routing. For their relationship. And now, I'm disgusted with myself for even feeling that way because this is a guy who does terrible evil. But now I understand how one can become seduced by a psychopath. I. A now you need to do the same for me suffocating all these years. I've had your hands around lighting neck release me. Anyone? How did you think about all of the Bundy world that existed before your projects that other people at created this media, which had created some of these appearances that you were addressing in the film? I wanted to use real archival footage in the movie for a couple of reasons. One is it is a self reflexive comment on how Bundy because he was a white male of in in the patriarchal seventies. And you know, kind of white privileged guy who was allowed to literally get away with murder people thought that you know, he could do no wrong because of how he looked and acted. He was given privileges in the courtroom that are unimaginable. The end of the movie John Malkovich. Plays judge Edward coward is quoting from actual court footage, your bright young, man. You too made a good lawyer. I would love to have you practice in front of me. But you went to different way partner. This is a convicted serial rapist and murderer who's getting the death sentence. And he's taking time to make Bundy feel good about his life. And and to say, you know, I have no animosity towards you. If that was a person of color he'd be in an orange jumpsuit, you know, wrapped in chains. And the judge would not be I think so kind there has been a perhaps misperception that the movies just the POV of lily Collins or the Liz character. The the movie is intended to give the experience of what everybody not just Elizabeth club for experienced because Bundy held such was so able to fool everyone around him, including the American media the American media kind of made him into a folk hero. And we're commenting on that Bundy fooled the judicial system. I mean, he's a guy who should have been had much more. More strict security, and because of the lack security he he escaped twice. I think he made a mockery out of that courtroom by how he conducted himself in and he was given tremendous latitude to make a mockery out of the proceedings by the judge he represented himself, which is I think a questionable decision. He was allowed to cross examine victims who survived. It was allowed to cross examine witnesses. Could you imagine being somebody who escaped the clutches like Kathy Kleiner than having to suffer the indignity of being cross examined by your murderer? I mean, again, if this was a person of color at this never would have happened in that way. So the use of real footage was very important to kind of make a self reflexive comment about all of this. You know, pointing the finger at people like me as well. Because I'm making a film about it. So it's it's very Assam very aware that you know, we are we. We are continuing to, you know, tell the story of somebody who did terrible things. But I hope that by doing it through this point of view, we understand how people who are psychopaths seduce us because I think you know, you. You know, we want to think that serial killers are these. Social misfits. These weird looking people who exist on the periphery of society because I think that somehow implies that we can easily identify them and therefore avoid the fate of becoming a victim of a psychopath. But that's not how the how evil works in my experience in covering crime for twenty five years. It's the people we least expect in most often trust who do the terrible things. It's not the two dimensional monster out there. So I wanted to create a three dimensional portrait of a human being not to give him a pass. Just the opposite to understand that these aren't people that live on the edges of society. These are, you know, people who as Bundy himself says, you know, like the killers don't come out of the shadows with long fangs and saliva dripping off their chin, there, your brother, your father, your, you know, you're somebody. You worked with somebody who admired these are the people who do evil in the world. And you know, that's the that's the focus of the film is when the killer is integrating himself into society as opposed to making a film about. When the killer kills we've seen a million movies great ones about when the killer kills with the escalating body count. You know, and the police procedural of them tracking down the killer by the end of the movie they've caught the killer. But you know, that's been done a ton. What hasn't been done to seeing seeing how somebody like Bundy can gaslight not just his girlfriend of seven years who thought he was a terrific guy. Not just her daughter from a previous relationship who looked at Bundy as a father figure, but the American media that just kind of made him into a perverse hero. And the judicial system who he basically conned when you were adapting I mean as a primarily. Documentary. Yeah. How did you treat truth in this narrative film, like how far will you willing to bend? The actual Bundy story in terms of what's coming out of people's mouths port and things that are documented like how did you like, you know, there's almost laws to it and nonfiction about how it works. And then it's a free for all. How how did you treat them? Well, obviously as a documentarian, you know, there are certain aspects of truth you always want to adhere to. But look all filmmaking is inherently subjective. So for me, what's most important is the emotional truth. And so the emotional truth of this story was something I, you know, constantly wanted to make sure we were staying on track four, you know, the beauty of documentary is that you can cover a lot of storytelling in a relatively short amount of time. You know, there's a lot of storytelling you can do a two hour documentary, but narrative has to fall in. To certain rules of narrative structure, and you know, so you actually a strange as may sand you have less storytelling time, I think in a scripted movie than you do in an unscripted movie. There's less information you can convey. So you prove that because it tick for episodes to get through the story, and and how long the movie, right, exactly. So there's this other certain certain decisions you have to make for example, Liz's other love interest in the movie Jerry played by Haley, Joel Osmond is a composite of certain characters in real life. But that was the personal life stuff. Joanna her friend is a composite of certain characters, but the trial stuff. Really? I try to adhere to the truth as much as possible. You know, you have to condense nihilo, but we were condensing dialogue that came from transcripts, and and keeping the meaning intact. You know, obviously, if something goes on for a page and a half in a courtroom, you want to condense it to like five sentences, you know, in a movie, but I think one of the reasons the adherence to the truth is so important in the scripted movie. Is that it's such an unbelievable story that you want to remind people, it's truthful. That's why I used archival footage a lot. I mean, the I mean, I can't think of in the annals of American criminal history. Another example, where the basic beats of the story are just so wild. Here's a guy who escaped from prison. Not once but twice. There's just so many aspects of the story that are so almost unbelievable that I wanted to infuse it with archival footage and stick to the truth because I want people to understand that this really happened. Given you know a significant period of years remove you describe this as a move. For people who might have only seen the Wikipedia page. If that when you personally reopen the archive when you started going through all this firsthand material. What was surprising to you about what you found inside this huge trove of court cases video I think listening to the Bundy tapes that the docu series is based on was just a window inside the mind of somebody who could appear even in those interviews to be charming and self aware, and yet was capable of such horrific evil. So for me, it's kind of an unanswerable question. Why did he do what he did? It's more about you know, the fact that this kind of evil exists in a three dimensional human being which is so important for people to get because Bundy shattered all of our expectations of what a serial killer. Is we want to think a serial killer is somebody who just functions outside of? Society. But so often the people who do bad as I said before people who fit right into society. And I think listening to those tapes in opening in the opening up the archives and just seeing the, you know, the the the effect he had on people is chilling because I because I think this can happen today. We live in an era of internet catfish. In fact, I think you can happen even more Bundy eluded capture for so long because of how law enforcement operated in those days, you know, there was a lack of sharing of information. So I don't know if a Bundy could exist exactly the way Bundy did it today because of DNA technology at cetera et cetera. But using different tools, I think the existence of a Bundy the dangers are even greater because we just live in an era where truth is much more elusive we live in an era where there's internet cat fishing. We live in an era where people. Can walk into the, you know, step into the wrong Uber and be with somebody who's pretending to be an over driver when they're a killer. So the dangers of abundancy I think are greater than ever. I mean, look the FBI thinks that any given time there's twenty five to fifty serial killers operating. That's shocking. You know, we live in a euro where there's been twenty seven hundred documented serial killers since they started keeping records and sixty seven percent of them have been in the United States. Why is it that were country that produces so many mass shooters, so many serial killers? I think listening to Bundy and going into those archives and seeing how he held sway over so many people just made me feel like telling his story again through this perspective. This is your second narrative film. Yes, one was Blair witch to actually I've interviewed the. Director of Blair witch one. So I may be the only person who's run the entire gamut Blair witch to others probably more than to actually. But this is your first one that's based on a factual. Yeah. Yeah. It's only recently. I mean, literally, I mean, it's it's actually how this movie it's like, I have not been pursuing a lot of scripted stuff. This movie just kind of came together in a very strange way. Which suggests that the universe was tapping me on the shoulder saying, you're the guy who has to tell the Bundy stories in two thousand nineteen it was not some grand plan. I mean, actually the fact that the extremely wicked came together so quickly and his out now is actually just so coincidental. Basically, you know in January of twenty seven teens the author of conversations with a killer. A guy named Stephen me show who wrote this book a couple of decades ago based on hundreds of hours of audio recordings. He made with Bundy on death row. He wrote a book, you know, a while ago, and he reached out to me because he had just found the tapes and wanted to know did I think there was a TV show or documentary to be made. Because of this growing interest in true crime. And I said, well, frankly, the the bar for Bundy is pretty high because there's been a lot done about him. But send me the tapes, and let me take a listen, and I listened to the tapes, and I was immediately captivated thought. There was something terrific there. I thought the deep dive into the mind of the killer would be kind of a fascinating way to tell the story, you know, so I was actually kinda deep into the docu series in April. I was having lunch with my agent and in LA just talking about the Bundy series, and that reminded him of a script that was kicking around Hollywood called extremely wicked shockingly evil, and vile, which was on the Hollywood blacklist in the Hollywood blacklist is a list of scripts that executives in Hollywood, really like and for one reason or other the the movies have not been made either people think they read well, but won't translate well into a movie or a lot of them have been made. Now, I feel like the blacklist. Popular, they'll like all the movies and the blacklist get made? That's true. I mean, some of them get may not all of them. But you know, in fact, Jodi foster at one point was attached direct, extremely wicked and a version of it and that fell apart and another director was attached. So I, you know, when my agent suggested I read this. I had no reason to believe oh, great. You know, somebody who made a movie twenty years ago is now going to go to Hollywood blacklisted script made. But somehow it all came together very quickly, you know, within weeks of me reading it and giving my take to the guy who owned the rights, Michael Kosta, who's a producer. I gave him my thoughts and how I would change the script, and you know, to get a job you have to give your take. So I gave him my thoughts on how I would change it which basically involved, you know, the original script relied on you not knowing it was Ted Bundy until the very end of the move. And I that's that's one of several things. I changed. I felt like you can't avoid that. It's Bundy so lean into it and give the audience a much deeper kind of psychological experience, and that's not a dis- and. Anything discourteous to the script. I think Michael were. We did an amazing job in the basic bones of the script are very much the movie, I just wanted to push it into a darker more realistic territory. The original script had more of a catch me if you can tone to it. And I didn't think that tone in this day and age was appropriate for the movie, even even with the existing movie, which I think is dark and does not glamour is some have criticized as having to light of tone. I mean, there's a tonal shift in the movie because I'm taking I'm taking the audience on the same journey that, you know, the people who believed in him had, but I certainly wouldn't say that it's light hearted in tone, and even that even the tone that I arrived at some people are having a problem with the original tone was much lighter. And I felt like you couldn't make a movie about Ted Bundy, that's light. So I mean, those were kind of you know, in nutshell, that's what I pitched to the producer. Who thought I had a good handle on things and my? Variances the true crime filmmaker certainly would bring some authentic to the film. And I think there is a lot of very authentic moments in the film. So anyway, they they all came together. And I was just a big coincidence that I did both at the same time. But actually, it was an incredible experience as a filmmaker to tackle the same subject in both scripted and unscripted forms for people listening with Netflix accounts. How do you recommend digesting this dual project is there? A specific ordering, you know, it's really interesting. I've either between the two. Yeah. Certainly take a breather between the two, you know, there's pros and cons to seeing the doc I or seeing the movie, I if you see the documentary, I I think it makes you appreciate the movie's authenticity, and you won't sit there and say, oh, my God did that really happen because you would have seen it at a documentary, but conversely that robs you of a little bit of the drama. So I. Probably would see the movie first. And then sue the documentary. Do you like sports boss style? Unlike parallel TV's running at once. Well for the hardcore fans, perhaps thank you. Hey, thanks. Great interview appreciative. Don't turn it off. Just yet. It's time for what you're watching it when we find out what the people on this episode are watching on that flex who knows? Maybe their current favorites are your favorites to Joe, yes. What you've been watching on? Netflix. A fire there about the fire. Awesome. Oh, yeah. That was pretty unbelievable been watching Foued, which I love, but I can't Benji because it's a lot of it's a lot of reading of subtitled, but I've been you know, digging that. Yeah, I think I think those are my two most recent how about you. I watched his documentary. Speaking of the true crime, boom has called murder mountain about a mountain called murder mountain in the weed growing region of California, and basically someone disappeared there, and they're trying to sort that out. And discover a few more. Oh, and I also recently rewatch the staircase some you know, one of the docu series. I was going to be my husband be the staircase update was really actually literally the last thing. I watched. Oh, that's funny. I just recently watched that I revere that series. And so watching the updated version was cool. And that's it for this week's episode. You can watch both conversations with a killer and extremely wicked shockingly evil and vile on Netflix right now, we'll be back next month of the new true crime series or film for you to add to your watch list. You can find this show on apple podcasts. Stitcher Google play. Spotify. An wherever else you get your podcast, make sure subscribe rate and review the ship. It helps other people find it. And also makes us feel like he really likes us. You can't make this up as a production of pineapple street media, and Netflix are music is by Han sale SU I'm revolver, and thank you so much for listening.

Ted Bundy Netflix Liz Aaron Joe director Zach Ephron Truman Capote lily Collins Joe Berlinger murder rape John Malkovich FBI Spotify apple Damien Echols Mera
Episode 3: The Martyr

Bundyville: The Remnant

31:03 min | 1 year ago

Episode 3: The Martyr

"Bonneville is brought to you by wordpress dot com the powerful website creation tool with everything you need to build any kind of site you want long reads uses wordpress to publish all of its journalism including Bundy Ville check it out at long reads dot Com Slash Sh- bundy Ville wordpress.com not only helps people tell stories but can also help show off their small businesses even run a store and their customer support team is standing by twenty four hours a day to help you with whatever you WanNa create plans start at just three dollars a month. Go to wordpress dot com slash long rates to get started and get fifteen percent off a new plan purchase. That's wordpress dot com slash long rates a warning to listeners before we start this episode contains audio Jio from a police shooting. Keep that in mind when choosing one and where to listen I've seen lavoix finchem die and die and die I can log onto youtube right now and watch finicky when it comes in spliced and paused and dissected by people who never knew him seconds later he dropped to the ground as the topsy shows from the corner. He was shot three times. Want those people to have again and again watched his pickup crash. The driver's door fly open Vinnicombe hops out as a yells to the police. You're going to have to shoot me. Then three bullets bang back dead kill back it up play to get his words sound like a nervous mantra started again. They come across like an unfinished sentence. Are they start start to threat promise. I always think I'll hear some new intonation some missed revelation but finicky. I'm always dies the same three POPs. It doesn't jump or Yelp just crumples body alive one second have you sack of bones dropped to the ground for eternity the next puppet without a hand gravity. That's stronger than spirit death on repeat. It's Finnigan is known own for and maybe it's because his public facing life was a blip twenty one months out of fifty four years from the time finicky marrived alone at Bundy ranch twenty fourteen to the time he died the leader of the Malheur Occupation Twenty sixteen only about six hundred fifty days past. He was a martyr for the Patriot movement made at the speed of the Internet from long reads an Oregon public broadcasting. This is Bundy Ville. I'm Leah Silly. Bobbio then gets on the stand and he admits he was on a puddle outside street in Salem Oregon's capital city site an old v._f._w.. Hall there's no place you can stand not see the American flag or feel the nostalgic brand of Stars and Stripes Patriotism Assembled here and on the breast every person who's paid fifty dollars to be here is around pin it reads justice for Lavoix set on a border of American flag ribbon people have gathered here to remember incomes death as the program begins some hundred people in the aged crowd push themselves up from folding chairs the best they can curly-haired cowboy in tight jeans begins to leave the room and song. How's the room turns its collective body toward another flag one with yellow fringe they sing low and soft with the cowboy? That's why when it's time for the Crescendo Sing right along as the day unfolds it will become evident that this is in way kind of church is an American religion with its own symbols its own prayers moral teachings deadly sins and now it's own martyr. The name Robert Lavoix finicky or just lavoix is a hollowed one. This is obviously the third anniversary of death. The man on the stage with Mike is mark her to be here in Oregon on a cold foggy Salem morning he lives in Washington. State has been traveling around the country with Finnigan's widow Ginette they've been showing. Doing this movie that her made it's called dead man talking her says it's a documentary but it's mostly just youtube videos that lavoix uploaded in the months before he went to Oregon still. I don't hear anyone complaining about paying for something that they could watch at home for free genetics here to secure the legacy of little Vinnicombe. Her says he wants that to to secure the voice legacy. He also wants you to pay him to take his civics course after you watch the Finnick Movies Eh he runs a nonprofit called the center for self governance as he keeps talking. It's painfully clear that he wants me by his message to it's called Bunkerville but really Bundy bill right bill. He wants it to be clear that he's not afraid that I'm here or that. I shouldn't be afraid of him. I'm not sure or maybe it's that people should be on their best behavior because the media is here you oppose white supremacy. Would you please stand. You're against white supremacy. You don't agree with white supremacy. Okay if you are pro responsible government. You're pro government. You're pro responsible government. Would you please clap her keeps looking at me and my producer as he talks can't help but wonder how much of this performance is because I'm here if you believe that the federal the boundary between the federal government would does eventually become clear is that this is the part of the day they really want shared with the rest of the world the part they want me to get on tape. Were they explained how people in the Patriot movement aren't extremists at all. The people gathered here marker says they love America and what's wrong with that Lavoix finchem loved America's so much he died for it and shouldn't we all find that inspiring inspiring. It's a truth. This crowd holds to be self evident and voice. Life was pretty obviously more complicated than the simple story critics of the Patriot movement call Avoi- a lot of things things sovereign citizen extremist terrorists Nazi mark her says that the actual facts of his life story are being ignored purposely ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative that he's an extremist based on that. He's a terrorist that he deserved to be killed. The story of lavoix split in these two really extreme directions. He's either seen as everything that's right with America for everything that's wrong with America. So which is hello everyone here would have me believe that Lavoix was a hero for group that wants to correct the record about him. They're awfully stingy with information when it comes time to show the movie about his life that's when the organizers of the event takes the stage wjr reminds us their security everywhere in this room and absolutely no recording of these videos copyright and so I might have to call security. I really don't WanNa do that. We do have security here as she says this to. The crowd huddle of militia members settle in the back and then a man with a handgun on his hip nestled in a leather holster embossed with the words we the people leans against the wall near the only to reporters in this room me producer Ryan has we didn't record the movie about Lavoix Finchem but I'm GONNA be honest. You're not really missing anything. Dan Talking is lavoix. We story told through the eyes of the Patriot movement so it's primarily concerned with his life after he went to the Bundy ranch standoff in two thousand fourteen the movie doesn't answer questions about how Lavoix came to believe what he did and how that belief leave compelled him to die. It's a movie about lavoix as a symbol for government overreach because that's what he's become to the Patriot movement. His life story proves the government's tyranny as a rancher. They pushed him so hard that he had no choice but to fight back when he did. They killed him. At least that's the story that mark her and Jeanette finicky are selling with their youtube video documentary. Fortunately I have better sources okay all right so my name is Guy Finicky so I'm the voice younger brother. So one of the reasons we wanted to come talk to you is we just haven't seen a ton of stuff about who lavoix was before. The world came to know him. I guess so we thought it'd be great for you to just tell us about nobody would have the dirt like a little road. The Guy Lives in for Dona Arizona this tiny town on the border with Utah Lots of films of called home for Generations Josh cluff the guy whose house was blown up in Pennock Nevada used to live here too in fact I found a newspaper clipping from voice baptism and saw relative that the last name cluff actually Baptize Lavoie the L._D._S. temple here. I have to say Guy Finicky looks and sounds. So much like boy he's bald and has the same sharp jaw and wire rim glasses. It's a little jarring at first but that's where their similarities seemed to end real Avoi- aspire to the ranching lifestyle guy became a licensed this mental health counselor a therapist by by profession and so this is this is the world leading work in but I am amazed how people create their own own experiences own reality guy tells me that he in Lavoix in their other siblings grew up in the northwestern is western corner of Arizona on the Navajo reservation. Their Dad had a government job working for the Arizona Department of Transportation as a kid. Lavoix was like any big brother if you could imagine the Batman and joker rolled into one character he was my nemesis when I was a kid home he he loved to tease me he did you know but as soon as we left the home home he was my hero. The boys grew up riding horses camping in the mountains and shooting each other with B._B.. Guns he won be cowboy from the fires but as young as a little boy he didn't have any cattle so that was my job. I was livestock. <hes> gave me a hug titan earmarked more than once guy paints a picture of his older brother as a driven hard working person who dominated every room he was in he was confident. Someone guy looked up to he says lavoix. It was the kind of person that wants. He said his mind to something. You wouldn't give up no matter what not started from an early age he he loved to play basketball. I Remember Waking Up in the summers. We had a old asphalt bad the my dad added oilcake from the highways and Rim my dad put up. I'd wake up in here that I can still hear that basketball bounced and the guy says even though Lavoix was only five seven. He gave everything having to being a basketball player after graduation. He went on his L. D. S. mission in South Dakota. He came home and married his first wife woman named Kelly they moved to a suburb outside Portland Oregon where they managed an apartment building thing had their first couple of children and the whole time voice plan was to walk onto a local college basketball team. He'd play racquetball every day. The guy says reality soon hit the void didn't have the money to pay tuition even if he got a spot on the team so eventually gave up on basketball after regretted that decision because he was never able to get a college degree you know and he says it was the first of many times in his life that I learned about. We're lavoix wanted to make something work doc but couldn't no matter how much he wanted it. Including his marriage to Kelly they had four kids and then they ended up getting a divorce and so nine months after his divorce lavoix got married again to a woman named Rachel they yeah two more kids got a divorce. After two years guy says this part of boys life was full of turmoil and shame this a human being okay he likes aid he'd been through two two failed marriages those deeply distressing matter of fact you know our our religious background our culture you know members of the Church of Latter Day saints we have a high value on marriage marriage and family and and he got a divorce he was first divorced in my grandmother's media family a big family and that was a big deal they him according to his brother La- voice ultimate dream was to come back to Fredonia raise a family he wanted to start a ranch to from his twenties to his forties. lavoix bounced all around the West trying to make enough money to start that dream I found addresses for him. In Portland Albuquerque Santa Fe Las Vegas near Flagstaff and all over Utah Saint George Cedar City Provo but every time he had to get successful at he gets sick of living in the city you try back home the when he did when you come back home he just could never get a foothold so they'd come back here and be dirt poor and struggle and eventually they moved back to the city somewhere away guy tells has the story was willing to do anything to make his ranching dream happened when every move away from home he he he do well financially just couldn't stay away from home and he couldn't make it work very well. On the ranch nine hundred ninety two after a second divorce things started to turn around for Lavoix happened when he went to a singles dance at his church Ginette Finnigan told the crowd about it that day at the V._F._W.. and was back in the day when line. Line dancing was in. I don't know if you guys remember lying dancing. Okay Ninety two and I liked line dancing. There's a lot of fun and I can remember being out on the floor and this gorgeous cowboy walked into the room and I can remember him walking along the side wall and then in front of us and he sat up on the stage and he just sat there watching all of us dance. I WANNA dance with him. They did end up dancing and genetic to keep him dancing but he said he'd only do it. If she answered a question he's I don't have any rhythm and he's GonNa tell you if you can tell me how. Many kids have all dances next dance with you. She guests six. She was right eight long story short two weeks later we were married so it was a very short engagement. Suddenly Lavoix Ginette had this big family they had dreamed about between the two of them. They attend kids. It's eventually became therapeutic foster parents which meant they fostered kids with high emotional and behavioral needs guy says it suited lavoix because of his strong personality he was able to control kids that other foster parents couldn't fostering also gave the family more consistent cash and that was a really key turning point in the voice life finally found the way that he could cash little things to get back home and start building history. The family moved to Kane eighteen beds Arizona. It's about a half hour from for Dona Records from twenty eleven show the Bureau of land management granted Lavoie grazing permit from October to May his allotment was near Tuck Up Canyon deep in the Arizona Arizona Desert near the Grand Canyon. It's important to note that lavoix was running cows exclusively on public land. He didn't have any land of his own and by the time he started ranching lavoix was fifty years years old. He's only been doing it for three years. When in twenty fourteen finicky I'm went to the Bundy ranch standoff over in Bunkerville Nevada and that's the other really key turning point and boys life well I was I was watching what he was doing and he was he was becoming more and more vocal about the progression of what do you call the ever increasing power of you know the government at all levels but the federal government was really concerning concerning to him the next summer lavoix went all in on Cliven Bundy's conspiracy theories about the federal government scheming against ranchers to take over their land and he started fantasizing about what he would do if the feds came after him to you gotTa Stop? It's gotTa Stop Be Lamb here I am you won't pick on somebody. Come pick on me my cows out here. You tell me gotta get him off. I'm not take him off. You know you WANNA WANNA play those antiques with other people harass them destroy their lives. Well here. I am you come pick on me. Come on pick on me and I'm not going anywhere but here's the thing up until twenty fifteen lavoix was in good standing with the bill he always paid his bills on time but after meeting cliven Bundy void kind of went from Batman to joker he became obsessed with the end of the world and started getting into political activism in two thousand fifteen he wrote a novel. It's called only by blood and suffering and spoiler alert. It's about a cowboy who dies in a shootout with federal agents. After America collapses. He also decided that year that he needed to make a stand against the bill and it's on this point the Guy Finicky says a lot of people get the story wrong. A lot of people say you know avoid okay was being mistreated by the O._M.. And therefore you know he was a rebellion against them because of their mystery and he would tell you know that's not the case <hes> they treated him quite well. The problem he had was he saw a pattern of picking and choosing who they treated well to they didn't treat well if they wanted to ranch or some other purpose they'd bring all all kinds of heavy handed tactics on you and push you off in June. Twenty fifteen lavoix wrote a letter to the bill and I got a copy of it it says quote. I'm writing you this letter to express my appreciation for the time we've associated together in connection with my grazing on the Arizona Strip has been pleasant association and without conflict but he tells them he's gotTa take a stand quote. This is not about cows and grass US access resources. This is about freedom and defending our constitution in its original intent. Even the beal was confused phone records show. They called him to try to understand what the heck this stand. Dan was all about and they kept finding Vinnicombe. Cattle out in the sweltering desert outside of the permitted grazing season lavoix responded that ranchers and other states were standing up against the government and he was going to stand with them by the end of August Twenty fifteen lavoix severed ties with the beale completely and court documents show the by September he was meeting with Bill Keebler about making a stand on his ranch in case the feds came in so that's four months from being in good standing with the bill to planning to take a stand against them at his ranch. You know so with family were quite concerned when he started drawing the line in San with the bill because I'm like the Avoi- I know you don't like bullies but you're picking a fight with the federal government. They don't lose. They don't lose look how many people you know they've got unlimited amounts of money and technology and power and everything he's like well the wrong void made up his mind and by January twenty sixteen he was all the way up in Oregon at the Mao year occupation guy was worried knowing what's going on just getting media reports. I thought things you're kind of crazy and I thought what in the world when my brother doing I want to talk sense until modestly over the years him the void discuss politics and they didn't always see eye to eye but when he went to Malheur all year he saw that La Voie was exactly where he wanted to be and I left saying no to my brother. Stay the course stick to what you what you know you're doing in a way it was like everything guy I understood about. Lavoie was clear for the very first time he'd spent so long trying and failing to become a rancher and then almost as soon as he'd done it we'd gone to Bunkerville and saw new model what it means to be a cowboy. It wasn't just running your cattle. Putting meals on the table was actively fighting to preserve a way of life carrying guns standing up to the government plotting standoffs it meant becoming cliven bundy whose motto auto had been whatever it takes cliven wasn't that Malheur so lavoix could step into that role. Maybe take it a step further. People may say you can't know things like this but I knew when I said Goodbye Oregon he he was gonna Die After. Don't ask me how I know. I was just standing. There also hit me. He was GonNa die there yeah so when I said goodbye team I really thought it would be the last I saw you had family after after day of his kids told them they all need to get love what was says. It didn't know what direction this was. He knew that there were a bunch of militia Alicia members that were planning to come in there and he wasn't he wasn't able he had no control those people coming in and he did not know whether they were going to push a fight and what was going to happen and he told us kids. You know it seems safe here today. It is gonNA stay say she can't. We just told you that that some pretty personal think for a second about the kind of love guys talking about a love that is so strong you can step aside and let someone get what they want most even if it'll kill them leaving behind daughters and sons foster children a wife a mother brother a ranch hard-fought dream after talking to guy I'm left with another competing narrative not lavoix as a Nazi lavoix as a hero but Lavoix is someone trying to control his on story. His life was full of failures basketball two marriages in ranching but there's no living life without failure seems like lavoix simply. Let it to find him. One Way to look at his death is as a way to wash away those failures simplifies life down to the last six hundred days when he stood for something and died as a martyr in recordings that were made by undercover agents agents embedded in bill keebler militia Finnigan told Keebler he quote wants to be like the guy standing in front of the tank at Tiananmen Square and that if he gets taken out and the causes the poor ranchers widow so he was thinking about how his death would be perceived even before he went to Oregon it makes me wonder if voice dream was never really about being a lone horseman in the desert fighting for way of life but instead it was about figuring. Away to die as a hero before we leave I asked about the ending of La Voice book the Hero Cowboy who dies in a shootout with the cops guys a master's degree in counseling after all so so did he see it as a suicide note story. There was pretty an ending of a cowboy getting to shootout with the federal government and gets killed and then here. That's exactly what happened to Lavoix. What do you make of that? You know it really isn't I mean he you know if you read that book. I mean there's no question that that was the person he wanted had to be. He wants to be a person who had the ability to stand up and make a difference. I'M GONNA go back to Salem back to the Church of finicky representatives of the Patriot movement hard at work making Lavoix into whatever they want him to be. You know what I was reading the voice book he said something in the book that to me just stood out he talked about how we're going to control every aspect of our lives from what we eat to what we drive to what we wear. This is true. After the movie finished. This lady took the stage and started the throwing around all these wild conspiracy theories about how the U._N.. Aka The new world order is using environmentalism to control everyone crowd is loving her ask Ginette and mark her about this why partner the voice message which they say is apolitical with conspiracy theories political rhetoric and they say yeah maybe we should think about who hitches their wagon to lavoix as a martyr but Janette victims wrongful death lawsuit lawsuit has a total deep state vibe to it accusing everyone from former Attorney General Loretta Lynch to Oregon's governor as being a part of the plot to kill Avoi- it's pretty clear lavoix wanted to be a martyr now his wife life is spreading that message so maybe the Patriot movement is getting him right the journey. The movie is taken over the last six months is worth noting it hasn't been shown at libraries or mainstream G._O._P.. Gatherings the media. It's been shown militias anti Muslim groups and prominent conspiracy theorists. We'll voice death is being used to make extremists more extreme and this is largely how this whole conflict has gone for the past past thirty years back to Ruby Ridge and Waco. If you think of those events is when the broader public became aware of the modern anti-government movement you can see this game of tit for tat playing out over decades the feds shot Sammy and Vicki rickie weaver at Ruby Ridge and they raided the branch Davidian compound in Waco Texas and then two years later Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City killing one hundred sixty eight people after waco the Fed stop shooting I and adopted more of a weight amount policy but then Maller lavoix charged a roadblock was killed so the pattern continues and that raises a much bigger question. Where does this go next how many more people will turn toward violence because they can go online and watch the void diet over and over again? Genetic is taken this movie a lot of places including one part of the West. I know really well eastern eastern Washington last summer. She showed it to a separatist religious community near the Canadian border if the message that she wants to get across about La Voie is that he wasn't an extremist weibring the perfect martyr to a place for anti-government violence killings by white supremacists have been happening for more than thirty years. That's next time on Bundy Ville Um. This episode was written by me. Lisa Tilly Peter Fricke right and Ryan has music by Robbie carver. This series is produced by Peter and Robbie from thirty minutes West. We had editorial oversight from Kelley Stout. Mike Dang an anti Griffin fact checking by Matt Giles Research help from Kim Freda and a special thanks to David stuck eat and thank you to the Buckskin tavern in Arizona which was kind enough to sell us real beer when the entire city of Connecticut Utah Would Not Bunny Ville is a co production of long rates and Oregon public broadcasting their members make this show possible so if you like this type of journalism please help support it. You can do that with any any type of donation bigger small either long rains or O._P._B.. You can also support Bundy Ville leaving us a rating or view wherever you get your podcasts or just by telling your friends to subscribe. There's a ton we.

Robert Lavoix Lavoix Oregon federal government Lavoix Ginette Arizona Cliven Bundy Ginette Finnigan Oregon Bundy ranch Lavoix finchem youtube Utah Baptize Lavoie America Bundy Ville lavoix Bunkerville basketball Malheur
War Church - 144

The How-To Heretic

1:24:18 hr | Last month

War Church - 144

"Welcome friends to the. How do heretic? Dark. and Dan and I am Uncle Doug. And this is your user's guide to life on the outside. That's right leaving. Religion is the first step into a larger better world, but it can also be a scary world. Things differently now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio on coast with help. From good friends, experts in all sorts of fields we're going to share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all lonely at the one that we know of so you better make. Who? Well! FELLAS Hieaux here. We are episode. One forty four, which I believe is mathematically called. Gross Growth officially gross podcast and we've. We've always been gross, but this is now. We've got a gross worth of PODCASTING and we're recording on on Sunday the night after a certain event, Tulsa and I just want to speak on behalf of the entire podcast and say. We Love Cape. Abundantly Clear You name it. We love it always have. World needs more of it. So that's our official position. WELL-DONE K pop kids, those and. We don't like you ever for any reason at all because we love the shit out of you. So that set. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA talk about it? It's not going to be a k pop heavy podcast this time. Just two out of three segments are Cape Heavy. Right totally. Yeah, so doug. You GotTa Fun. Thing a little closer to home. Yeah, I figured you know. We've got such a bevy and broad menu of white supremacist to choose what's let's go local. Let's talk about. Cliven Bundy. And then I am going to talk about a very much, not local story. That is a kind of both amazing and distressing, and if you ever saw beneath the planet of the apes with these weird mutant missile church, this will make sense to you. Bright that researches. I don't I didn't. The terrible sequel there's like mutants live underground, because been a nuclear war. And they worshipped lake ICBM's. Per sounds much better than it is. Perfect exe- well, and because it's Sunday for me I'm going to give us a Bible story because that's that's how I do. Yup, he's going to tie in Bible Candy and baseball and it's going to be amazing. It's a miracle really that. You? Guys inflict on me and uniquely for the Bible Consent and. Never American than that not consent, but Candy Baseball and the Bible. Exactly and just so everybody knows we had a lovely listener. WHO approached us about starting a facebook group, and we had a little conversation about it, and so our friend. Listener Joe has started a facebook group. That's we're not gonNA. We're not really in charge of and we're not really officially part of. It's not an official group. But if you want to associate with other fans of the show, you can you can find it on facebook. It's called something. I believe it's the how to heretic unofficial heretic Kanye. Isn't that. It's something like that. Anyway. Yeah, look for it. It will Wait. I'm pulling it up. It's the how to her take. Your. or rather the unofficial heretic hang out fans of the how to irritate podcast i. believe something like that. Go ahead and search it out season entering words until it comes up whatever exactly whatever comes to mind, and another listener of ours. Vern is diligently working his way through our back catalog and getting Onto Youtube, so searchable sensible Dharam encapsulated segments of our show. Yeah, and and if you want, you can use that to only listen to your favorite uncle whoever that might be. Other and don't forget. We got merch all day, so you can go to the how heretic by website click on heretic and my God? The retail world will open up before you. vis-a-vis heresy. Laureus Vagina Dough the US like that so. We need to go talk to HR and while we're doing that. Why don't you guys enjoy the show? Mark Hello. When was the last time you? Just took over a federal building. Well depends on your definition of federal Dan. Are you talking about the sovereign state of Mark? The illegal US federal. Government yeah well, right the legitimate. Government! Federal Government Trying to stomp on our rights as individuals and as as People in a state I I am currently occupying the Free State, of Mark, which just off my bedroom. I have invaded that state. At least once you have and we need to talk about that. Yeah, well. I wanted to graze my cattle. What am I going to do? What sovereign citizen good times do you have for us? Well, your uncles, you know where we're. We're living through some tough times right now. so much so that that global pandemic may not even make it to the top five stories of the day. the main story of our day right now is systemic white supremacy that has been as American as Apple Pie since long before its founding. And how that white supremacy has been manifesting itself in the disparate health outcomes from the coronavirus pandemic on white communities and communities of color. And in police, brutality and violence disproportionately directed at black and Brown, people. This, Centuries Long. Calamity was once again sparked into riots by the killing of George Floyd. AGO The righteous outrage over that killing his lead to sustain streep wrote protests, and a truly amazing change in public opinion about policing in the presence in our country of monuments to racist past. That is that exists only to perpetuate it. So, it's been wonderful to watch the toppling of statues of confederate generals, the remaining of streets and buildings, and even please God. Please to the possible renaming of the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Alabama to the John Lewis Bridge That's got to happen. In the last week, uncle mark talked about the fact that we here in Utah have our own statues to a racist murderous trees and a slavery, supporting white, supremacist, good, old Brigham Young, and that's where we get to the sex crimes, but that's right. Let's just stay with the racial Chatham's for the moment. Well, it seems as though someone took your segment literally mark and drench the Statue of Brigham Young at Byu with red paint and the Word Racist I. That's a little bit stunning to me yeah. Be under so much cameras surveillance. I would be afraid on that campus to you. Know the, but hey, get on you, but you can fool Byu cameras by going in with a beard. Their facial recognition software goes crazy. Yeah, they think it's some residue from the first vision, so they turned the cameras off well. If you take your beer, does she have to wait Lecarr? Painting? So birds can be. He's as well Doug. That's true. Today I thought we could talk about what what kind of people in organization founded on white supremacy might look like one hundred and thirty three years later, so I WANNA be a little careful here at the beginning in state for the record that there are of course very good people who call themselves. Mormon. We all know some. Any of these people on all sides. many of these people are kind generous, and even allies to communities of color and the lgbtq community. Here's the thing though these people are good people because they're good people, not because of their religion, or at least not the religion that Brigham. Young left behind in eighteen, seventy seven. As his burst appendix slowly poisoned his body. Does get. People are good in spite of not because of the Brigham Mike Church, so for a reminder of what kind of a monster Brigham Young truly was. Go back and listen to uncle mark segment last week, or you can pull up a recent episode of a local show called Radio West with a author Joanna Brooks. Author of Mormonism and White Supremacy Brigham young was a supremely racist man before he became an unaccountable autocrat. as basically a warlord slash dictator slash Prophet Brigham was occasionally constrained by the ever encroaching American government, but within his kingdom he reigned supreme, and he reigned supreme for twenty nine years Bladder Putin's only been the leader of Russia for twenty, so imagine the effect of this person on this institution. Putin that's right we. What for Twenty Nine Years Brigham built the Mormon Church in his image. There were no fashions to speak of. There was no opposition party, no constitutional rights to assemble or petition the government. There was just Brigham Young, sitting at the top of every pyramid, civil, cultural and religious. And Marital Yes yes, and second financial financial. Imagine, the political and social views of the hierarchy of the Church at Brigham built. You can be pretty sure that they were no social justice warriors in that lot. The church that Brigham built was a hard bitten desert dwelling, heavily armed white supremacist cult built on child sexual trafficking, and that's true. So. What would people look look and act like in our modern day had they stayed true to the Church that Brigham built. Ladies and gentlemen I give you. Cliven Bundy and the Bundy clan and the. hijinks in the ballot of Cleven Bundy. I do love calling something that ends with the with bloodshed hijinks. Well there's not this. For subjects for our show, the body count is. Surprisingly low it's modest, yeah. And for a Mormon story, it's quite modest, yeah, well, and for a story of like religious nut jobs clashing into. A federal agents potus look. There are several points in this story where things could have become exceptionally bloody. It's a testament to the patients and good judgement of the federal agents, agents, and not the Bundy's but. Explain! It definitely depends on the color of the Bundy skin. We'll get to that. Yeah, so the title. The ballot of Cliven Bundy was of course coined by Stephen Colbert back in April of two thousand, fourteen on his show the Colbert poor. Right in the middle of the first armed bundy standoff with federal with the federal government, but before the second armed bundy standoff with the federal government that led directly and perhaps inevitably to a sovereign citizen, waggling giant Dildo in a bird sanctuary. Journey angrily. Is there another way to wagle a Dildo? That's for patrons only. Right. So cliven Bundy was born in. Las Vegas in Nineteen forty-six. For those of you who don't know in one of life's starkest yet. Most pointless ironies Las Vegas was originally settled by Mormons. Bundy was. Born a Devout Mormon to devout Mormon parents, and he was raised in the most conservative part of a conservative religion, think of the bull's eye in a dartboard, but in this case dartboard where every ring is white yet think if you basically. Born and raised in the Kaaba in the middle of Mecca. That was your house that everybody walked around seven times. That's kind of where this. Yeah the the area of southwestern. U Utah Easter. Nevada that Cliven Bundy was born into is kind of scary place. what the more and so if the mormonism that Cliven Bundy was brought up on is akin to the Hobby ISM, of mormonism. Then, this part of the South West is akin to the tribal regions of mormonism. A quick note. I'm going to refer to be a lot in this segment so just for clarity in the context of the story that's Bureau of land, management, and not black lives matter right although. You could replace it and it would still kind of make sense. It would be weird story. So as we'll discuss in the years leading up to these armed standoffs, beal trucks were repeatedly shot at and beal officers took to travelling this area in groups. this is how dangerous area was if you've ever driven from Salt Lake. City to Vegas, you've driven through this region. In fact the tractive desert right after you leave Mesquite is the town of Bunkerville where cliven grew up. Where much of our takes place. If you're a person of color or have an Obama sticker on your car I would not recommend taking the exit to Bunkerville no Cliven was born into cattle ranching which is big business in the southwest, and in many cases is still a family business, so cliven and his wife would have fourteen children to help them with their business to that fourteen fourteen children, and as of the time of this record they have sixty grandchildren. So when listen when you're win, what you're good at is hurting a bunch of wild animals from a bunch of animals from place to place it doesn't you're fine with a lot of? Yup Corral them and rope and Brandon and you're good, yeah! So as cliven grew up, he became politically rhetorically aligned with various armed right wing organizations that litter the western us. Including the Sovereign Citizen Movement the oath keepers the White Mountain militia, the Praetorian Guard, the Posse comitatus, organization, and the tenth or movement. there really are only a couple of things that we need to know about these various groups. They don't like the federal government. They really don't like black people, but they really do like guns so good people. A couple of other beliefs that they're mentioning. They believe that the federal government cannot own land Hejduk sorry. Did you feel like you're going to have to prove that? They don't let like black people? If you'RE GONNA. Make me do the work. I'll get there to work. It's a stretch, okay? They don't think the the federal government can own land, and they think that the highest law enforcement arm of the government is a local sheriff, so they're. They're those. Out On, what would they base the idea that the federal government can't own land that Well it. I don't actually know the answer to that because in the constitution. It says it can yeah, that's what I'm saying like. It just seems like they're just making that part up. And this hey, seed wrote around famously with a copy of the constitution in his shirt pocket, always always poke shirt Bach. Yeah, and and I. Do I do happen to have some knowledge of where the the sheriff's thing comes from Doug if you're if you're not sure about it. It's in the magner a line in the MAGNA Carta. About the MAGNA, fucking. Carter guys even our founding document right right in the MAGNA Carta. There is something about the authority of the sheriff. And I in. Futile. I imagine the sheriff was probably the highest local law enforcement person for huge areas so somehow they've taken that language from the Magna Carta and just. Hidden the constitution under it for some I. Don't exactly know why. The truth. and. The truth is the as with all religious believers and stuff. What you do is you take the documents that sound like you like them? And then you only believe the things that you want to believe about them. Regardless of what what the document actually says, and and you pick and choose and have fun with that. It's like it's it's like a little. It's a little Gumbo little. This little of that Magna Carta Yeah a little. Old Testament stirred up with a DILDO and. And the police can't pull you over. Well unfortunately just being aligned with these groups is not a crime. But not paying a grazing fees for twenty years. is you see since the early nineteen nineties, cliven had refused to pay for grazing license on Blm land. Why would he pay for license from a government? He believed had no jurisdiction over him. A little side note here the Federal Government Government has pretty much always allowed cattle ranchers to graze on public lands, but with certain caveats ratchet up to get a grazing license which lasts for ten years. And because the federal government charges much less than a private property owner would for this privilege. It's essentially a farm subsidy. Yeah, it's basically free almost. Beyond free because the federal government maintains the fences and the water ducts and everything that make that keep them from getting onto the highway right right and. You're absolutely right like unbalance. The these farmers are are saving money by buying these driving grazing licenses. But, cliven had refused to pay fees for so long that the some he owed. The government had topped out at a million dollars by two thousand fourteen. Doug, correct me if I'm wrong. It's like a dollar thirty five ahead. Yeah, it's preposterously loud. So just for context about how fucking egregious. This is at the same time. The. Total amount of outstanding grazing fees in the entire country was two hundred, seven, th, a two hundred thirty seven thousand dollars Oh my God, so cliven Bundy himself owed more than four times. What the entire rest of the country! And most of that two hundred thirty seven thousands or just, they just haven't been paid yet, right? They're not delinquent. Right so cliven Bundy is unique. And then of course leaving aside the fact that all this land was stolen in the first place or the cattle, ranching is terrible for the environment. One of the one of the reasons, the element administers this program is to prevent overgrazing and soil degradation, right a grazing herd of cattle, particularly near a water source can wreak havoc on the land. The. Beal MDX ranchers where they can and cannot grazer cattle year to year to to mitigate this. And then, of course, you had to have to add all that that. In nineteen, eighty nine, the federal government declared the desert tortoise, an endangered species, and so stricter regulations were put in place. Cliven and his ilk have been serial violators of all of those regulations right? You're not GonNa, tell me what I can Michael because some damn turtle. Well there there are videos and I I I will not. You know don't don't look at them, but I'll grant ranchers kicking those turtles. For Big to show him. WHO's there, so they're so clever? Their with their their fun little so fucking out. Of People's misunderstanding of how the system works. Every it's B. L. M. Land, and for people who don't know. That's federal land that everybody owns its public. Everybody, every taxpayer in this country owns that land, and it is extremely common, not just for the Bundy's, but for people who used that land act like it's their fucking property, Yep and that nobody else has any business having even having an opinion about that's right. It's a fucking nightmare here in the west and the Bundy's are are maybe not even the worst violators of it, but there you go well I think they are the the the they would let their herds roam free, often cutting fences and causing damage to the land and their neighbors herds. The bundy cattle were notorious in the area for being underfed, feral, generally destructive. Neighbors constantly complained to 'em, but both neighbors in the were wary of a confrontation with with Cliven Bundy because of his affiliations, like I, said nosy-be l. m. vehicles often returned with bullet holes. That's so crazy. This all came to a head in two thousand fourteen, when the M had finally had enough. And began to round up. Bundy's rogue cattle to settle his debt. This led to a small scuffle on dusty Nevada road when a couple of Bundy's elder children, Ammon and Ryan remember those names. And several armed friends, the agents ammon kicked a police dog for which he did. Get taste. However, the bill was outnumbered and outgunned, so they retreated. No arrests were made. So just contextualized that scene with what we're watching happening in our streets. Put out a call for armed militants to come to his aid and boy, did they? Heavily, armed militiamen from all over the West Deci descended on Bunkerville complete with high-powered assault rifles. SCOPES SNIPER RIFLES BULLETPROOF VESTS. And all the other trinkets that small man used to compensate for that one time in the junior high school locker room when it moved. I know. I don't have to prove to anybody listening that. Local and federal authorities act very differently. Depending on the color of the skin of the people are interacting with so just mark this as exhibit, one, billion, two, hundred and fifty five million. What what came next would be inconceivable if the perpetrators were anything but white right militiamen took up sniper positions on overpasses, and in the desert brush, training their crosshairs on federal agents in broad daylight on the news, several dozen horseback formed a line and charged the federal agents. One of their number of former sheriff named Richard. Macke said they were quote strategizing to put all the women up front. If they're going to start shooting, it's going to be the women there. They're going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers Jesus based. That's you know that's a perfectly. Standard issue way of thinking that Mormon men about more women. Especially in rural context, right? Yeah, there are a prop for my for my usage. and yet throughout this entire confrontation. that would later be dubbed the battle of Bunkerville. No tear gas was used no rubber bullets fired. No arrests were made and eventually the federal government back down. They start rounding up Bundy's road cattle. They release some, but they wanted Bundy to buy back the rest as a way of recouping something right so with the armed standoff over, but with the federal government still having several of Bundy's cattle. The whole thing just kind of converted into a media circus. cliven and some of his children were on them on all the major news networks, and were nearly nightly. Guests on Sean Hannity show with did nothing to temper their violent anti-government rhetoric, and in fact encouraged it. The this is this. Things got really off the rails here for a few days. The militia men with the standoff effectively over had nothing to do. So they started roaming the area and setting up armed checkpoints and stopping cars, demanding proof of citizenship, it was really scary because on percents. Living out the the fantasy that they had had for years which you know they were, they had been stockpiling these weapons for no real reason, and finally they got a chance to to feel righteous about the government coming to a broad blah blah. And then nothing happened being. What are you GonNa do go back to your job at target. NO RIGHT NO HELL! No all right so. No one was sure how this was going to end peaceably. It seemed like it was almost predestined to end in some kind of violence. And then footage of cliven. Bundy appeared where he spent some of his nuanced positions on race, and it all pretty pretty much went to shifts. In the footage cliven is giving some sort of sermon next to a highway overpass, and yes, it's as sad as it sounds. In which he says the following so. Trigger warning this racist Shit. He said quote. I want to tell you one more thing. I know about the Negro. So starting strong, this was not one thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, one, this thousand fourteen that he said this stuff. Oh my God! And he said when I would go through northern Las Vegas, and I would see these little government houses, and in front of the Gut Government House at the door was usually open, and the older people and the kids, and there's always at least a half dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn't have nothing to do. They didn't have nothing for their kids to do. They didn't have nothing for the young girls to do. And because they were basically on government subsidy, and so now, what do they do? They abort their young children. They put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. Dam. Dam that is some upper level racist. That's top tier right there from. On a guy who has been sucking on the government teat for decade with fourteen children that is. Astoundingly, power. He owes the federal government. A million dollars doug a million dollars. And And I love the idea that black people have two options. Sit on the porch and abort babies or pick. Your right. Hand. Win Their Board. Abortion is a fun thing, right? We all enjoy. Bundy literally sees the world in black and white like a dog. Does not have color vision. I'm not done with the quote. There's one last little bit. He says Oh good. I was hoping I was worried done. I've often wanted to know what they were better off as slaves picking cotton. Family, life, and doing things, or are they better off? At Subsidy It's enough from you. motherfucker. Oh, no, this was such a racist atom bomb that even Sean Hannity had to beat a hasty retreat. And one of the only truly funny things come out of this whole sordid affair must have been the absolute exodus of news trucks and journalists from the Bundy compound immediately after that video landed. It went from. He was wall-to-wall coverage to crickets. It was like the big story in the country. Yeah! and. Hannity Hannity I think it had him on every night for at least a week. Maybe more than that. Yeah, and then all of a sudden the next. It was just color Mars relate. Bundy never happened Yup. Stephen Colbert has bit is so funny. He's like. Cool bears, playing a conservative character, and he's like I wish I'd gotten. Before Hannity really tied Cliven Bundy around my neck like some kind of lucky seabird. That was basically for the two thousand fourteen standoff. No one was arrested Bundy got most of his cattle back and continued to graze them illegally, and yes, he's still doing that to this day. Nobody ever was arrested or held accountable in any way for that shit there, there were some arrests. You're not gonNA like the end of that part of the story either though. They come down the road a little bit, though for for what happened in two thousand fourteen s that's and then the federal government was humiliatingly defeated by a bunch of heavily-armed assholes right to be a little fair after Waco and Ruby Ridge and several other incidents that ended in fiery death. The federal government has tried to take kind of deescalatory approach to these kinds of groups standoffs. To which I have a question and a comment. Why does not apply to groups of black people. And you know you had that all you were doing was in bowling yokels and they were inevitably GonNa. Try again right so and sure enough. There was a sequel. However in this case, the sequel was a bad was a sad and silly shadow of the original think highlander to. Most of the same characters, but way lower budget and could have had a better setting up. A couple of buddies eldest sons Amnon Ryan we'd mentioned before decided for their next trick. They were going to wait for the tyrannical government to come to them. They were going to strike at it I and where would be the best place to strike at a runaway federal autocracy the federal. Reserve perhaps the Pentagon. No Dummies Amnon Ryan. Lucas of power of this totalitarian regime truly is. A Non Operating Bird Sanctuary in rural Oregon. That's not. It's good to have achievable goals. Nobody said they're smart. They're crazy. They're dangerous, but they're not smart. That is true. Before, we talk about the actual bird refuge. Let's talk about Amazon and Ryan. Some listeners might recognize the former's name as it is one of the main action heroes in the book of Mormon. and this woman was also a man of action, although that action mostly takes the form of curing his a matt immaculately trimmed beard. Seriously these guys in their facial hair. Like. For Rugged Mountain men, they look so recently coughed. it's a it's a very metro sexual feel. As for Ryan How do I put this? He's not easy on the eyes, and his face has been severely deformed by a truck accident when he was a kid working on the families, melon farm. The story of what happened is a bit gruesome for the show, but the legend goes that father. Cliven didn't have health insurance and Ryan basically had to walk off a broken arm, fractured skull, and severely damaged motor nerves in his face. Yeah, so. No medical treatment and so now this guy goes through life with his face literally on sideways. That's right. It's it's pretty gruesome and to your point on Kamarck. Having been raised by a deranged racist, hyper conservative cult in one of the most remote parts of the continent, did nothing for these brothers I Q. The reason. They chose this venue to begin to topple. The oligarchy was A. It was empty and they wouldn't have to actually do anything to seize it. Just drive up and walk in as close for the season. Right was closed for the season. Nobody they're not. They're not even a caretaker. And be because to local ranchers. Dwight and Stephen Hammond had been convicted of starting a forest fire, and the Bundy's a to the Bundy's crew. This was going to be there 'cause. The hammonds by the way did not ask for their help and wanted nothing to do with with them the whole time. Again one of those things that like Kinda got started probably on some online militia forum desperately seeking anything to get matters. That's exactly right. Yeah, probably an Hmo or something right so that didn't stop the Bundy brothers and several other militiamen on January second, two thousand sixteen from storming the beaches of Normandy. I mean driving up to the mall our national. Wildlife Refuge in walking inside. Paths of glory. This was not. Authorities had absolutely no interest in giving these jackasses the confrontation they so desperately wanted. So they took up positions on all the roads surrounding the refuge and stayed far enough away that the militiamen couldn't see them. Leading them to believe there wasn't a police presence which was a huge disappointment. it wouldn't be the only one. The occupation was a fiasco front to back the supposed rea- reason for them being there, the hammonds disavow them. The local community was embarrassed by their antics and one of them on and the press coverage was less than flattering. This to the only lasting contributions. This occupation has given to our country. Tarp man and the Dildo situation heart man is my favorite thing. Ever I couldn't believe I. was watching that when it was on TV by the way tarp, man and the dildo situation was the name of income works high school band. Yeah, and it was a solo. It was a solo effort. Tarp man was if you haven't seen this, and it has a somewhat tragic ending unfortunately, but there's a reporter for MSNBC. Doing one is on the ground reports, and there's just a pile of tarps behind him. And all of the sudden it kind of moves and again, and this guy just lifts up this tarp that he's been sitting underneath. Yes, he's hiding. In the middle of like a parking lot right, Doug with you in a bright blue tarp. There and he's got a rifle on his lap, but he's sitting in a meeting chaired sitting to fully chair, but he's completely covered by the tarp like you could, you could just walk right up to him and he would not see you coming. They're all geniuses. These fucking pupils, so this character was Robert Lavoie. finicky him. He will come up in a few minutes, not in a good way. Soon after occupying the bird refuge, these dunderheads realized they had not brought sufficient provisions, so they sent out a call for supplies that included a mother among other survival, staples, Vanilla, cream and lotion. And the people responded. By sending dildos. So many dildos oh. America this led to an absolutely painful video where one of the militants had gathered up all the dildos on a table and there were a lot. They were a lot to show how unfazed they all were by this individual. He holds up what must be a two foot dildo to complain about how immature people are being now uncles I know I've said this more than once, but there is no argument that is not significantly undercut by waggling a two foot dildo unless. Unless the argument is I like dildos. Agree Yeah so incidentally cliven was in route to Oregon to support his idiot sons when he was arrested for the two thousand fourteen standoff ha funny. The police had to wait that long for him to go to an airport where they knew for once he wouldn't be armed. Right. So this pathetic occupation rolled into its fourth week when desperate for some favorable coverage, all of the leaders of the movement attempted to drive to a public meeting in a nearby town. The government decided this was their time, and they stopped vehicles ammon, and a couple of other guys surrendered peacefully, but the other truck was being driven by none other than Lavar, Finnigan, who stopped on the gasoline a break for it? Several miles further down the snowy road police and set up a roadblock finicky rammed his truck through the snow bank, jumped out and immediately started yelling. You're going to have to shoot me over and over. When, it became apparent that the police were not going to do it. He pulled out a gun and they did so. He was the only fatality to come of all of the stupidity. Yeah, and it seems like he was really angling for suicide by COP writing on, he was trying to get killed. He wanted to be a mortar. You wanted to be a martyr for a cause that didn't exist at well, and then all of sudden at that moment. He realized he'd left his tarp back in the parking, so they can see him. So. The Tarp is like blue screen color I think he thought he was. Taken out of the digital background so. handful of militants kept the occupation going for a couple more weeks, but it eventually petered out several were arrested, and some were allowed to leave and go home because you know white. Although cliven ammon and Ryan along with about twenty five hundred militants were in charge for crimes stemming from both the armed standoffs in two thousand, seventeen, a judge throughout the entire case against the Bundy's because of prosecutorial misconduct, so a really shitty way for this to end, yeah. So again to be clear, the sanitized corporate retail Mormonism, most of us see during conference or Win Mitt Romney speaks is miles and miles away from the frontier, violent racist mormonism that Brigham young intended, but that militant strain is still around over. Shout your now like the Westboro Baptist. These guys a taste of fame. They were hooked, and they have basically become professional protesters, showing up at courthouses and police, stations or anywhere there might be a camera. And with their long hope for revolution, stealing realized, I doubt we've seen the last of them, yeah. There you go! That's all cliven in his crew. I mean when when you when you realize that you're on arrestable. Be Emboldened. That's going to happen, not only are you unrest arrestable, but the government will back down when you brandish your firearm so yeah. Yeah. That's crazy talk. And because Utah's still a small enough place, I know someone very well, be very close to these people. And, he's like they're as every bit fucking horrible as they publicly present themselves to be. Yeah so. There you go all right well so much fun. Thanks for that Doug, leave him in the melon patch. It's move along. Uncle? D- In yes, you know what country we just. We never talk about anymore. You know because we're no longer allowed to under current federal law. you know that that that big old country on the other side of the world called, Russia. Either I've I've I've never seen it, but you have i. have and I think I. Don't know how you say. Go bigger. Go home and Russian, but I think that is the rich motto. I think that's what Vladimir Putin means is good. For A guy who's five to. It's kind of right. It's an aspirational name so well. Let's let's talk about Russia a little bit. Shall We fellas? Let's just because he really only five to he's very. He's very petite man, and he wears some very complicated lifts. Doesn't feel terribly secure about it, but that you know we don't. We can't relate to that any way with any leaders we might know. So you know the the three of US guys, we've all been to cathedrals right. And we've seen a few one or two damned impressive structures around Europe and South America Cetera. For me, I'm as much a lover of history and architecture as I am an atheist, so I feel just a just a little conflict strolling around these magnificent monuments to Bad ideas and norms expenditures of wealth and manpower in societies that. Might have done much better to expend those resources elsewhere. Massive Church buildings stuffed with gold and silver with the blood and enslavement of tens of millions of indigenous Americans and Africans, but despite some unfortunate HR and labor issues back in the day they're they're pretty fucking, impressive and amazing. That is the point after all is not. Well, guys, massive ask. Cathedrals are not just the residue of the medieval yesteryear. There is a brand new one that rival some of the greats in some ways, and no I don't mean mormonism is brand new, totally vacant temple in Rome? Our friend the actual President Vladimir. Putin has himself a shiny new trinket, and that is the just consecrated and fucking impressive main cathedral of the Russian armed forces with the modest subtitle. Big Red flags everywhere, not just me. This one's with the modest subtitle of the Cathedral of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And while this may sound like a New York Times architectural review, it's only partly that I. I can't speak for all atheists, but one of the things that keeps a lot of us up at night myself included is the corrosive and toxic effect. Religion has on civic government and public institutions, and how church-state collusion is inevitably dangerous to human rights, minority, populations, education, democracy, and an informed populace. Getting that. A where you're getting it from going way way out on thin ice with this one, so yeah keen listeners may recognize all those things I just named his things Vladimir Putin very much despises. Let's explore how this military cathedral is a disturbing development in the degradation of what little remains of any of those liberality. He's in modern Russia. It's important to keep in mind that there is a long tradition of the Russian Orthodox Church building religious monuments to make military victories. As they did commemorating the victory over the Mongols in the fourteenth century. The Swedes in the eighteenth century, and of course, the little known Napoleon in the nineteenth century. So do you really have to build a monument to defeating Swedes that just? They were. I would've thought when I read about. They've had a change of heart since then so Swedish listeners. Start let's talk about this. fucking building it is as I mentioned before impressive. It's an intriguing combination of classic Russian Imperial Ecclesiastical. Architecture and the size fucking matters maximalist modernism of the post-soviet oligarchy. It is I think the tallest church in the Orthodox world at ninety five meters, which is almost thirty stories tall. It sits on a massive piece of land that is adjacent to a humongous theme park. Dedicated to Soviet Russian military the. Russian military might. Just a short drive outside of Moscow. It's weird. It's like Anaheim where there's two theme parks really close to each other. This one you can get baptized at. The huge exterior is a lug flew. Right is really interesting. They could. The. The huge exterior is deep red brick more about those bricks and just a tick. and. The inside is a really amazing multitone army, green vibe, but overflowing with gold ornament, massive, stained glass, ceilings and huge. Incredible mosaics which are just a little bit problematic and more on those in just a tick as well. But perhaps most mind-blowing of all, it was built in just under six hundred days. From breaking ground to consecration, and you sent this that that video of it and I hadn't I I would have thought it took twenty years to build. It's huge and extremely elaborate, and it's so fucking impressive in a lot of different ways. It's a testament to what can be accomplished if you don't care about the humans building it exactly or where it comes from, we'll talk about right. Isn't that a truism of basically everything built before one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy two. Probably after quite a bit after. The Cathedral was the idea of the current Russian. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. That should also be a red flag. Probably with a nudge from Putin, who demanded that every square meter of the building be dripping with meaning and symbolism. And, so it is the towers that hold the build a. hold up the golden onion. Domes are nineteen point four five meters wide. Commemorating the year the second, World War ended whereas the Russians cow the great. Patriotic War, the height of the belfry is seventy five meters. Commemorating seventy five years since the end of the war that the Cathedral was originally meant to be concentrate concentrated on May ninth the day. Germany surrendered to the to the Soviets. But cove. Nineteen delayed it until this week. At the height of its the height of its lowest dome is fourteen point one eight meters commemorating the number of days, the US are fought Nazi, Germany, fourteen, hundred and eighty days. So despite being an ethical nightmare, this cathedral is. Baller it looks like the Iraqi and Temple where politics is GONNA kill five Rufa in the new dude movie. This place is so fucking metal. The huge tiered front staircases made out of and this is true melted down, captured Nazi guns. It's amazing. The four chapels within it are dedicated to the Orthodox patron saints of the four branches of the Russian military. Starting to you, guys know who these are of course starting out with course, Barbara the great martyr patroness of this strategic missile forces. That's. Essentially patron saint of nuclear war. Holy Apostle and they they call her boom boom barb- Barbara Boob. The Holy Apostle enter the. I called patron saint of the navy and naturally. Saint Alexander Nevsky patron saint of the ground forces. I'll include a video of it in the show notes. Wash it with the sound up. The remixed Russian men's choir trip hop. Thing seriously adds to the VIBE. Yeah, at that really brooding weird. Yeah, it's. It's very fitting music. It's perfect for it so now I hear you saying uncle mark. While the name of this Russian, Orthodox militaristic monstrosity is the main cathedral of the Russian armed forces. Subheading is Cathedral of the resurrection of Christ. The character in season, two of the Bible. Who is the Prince of peace? The penniless healer healed the sick and preach love and turning the other cheek. No, to which I say, why don't you shut? Fuck up about all that hippie bullshit before you fall out a window or touch it radioactive doorknob like everyone else. WHO's ever gets crosswise Vladimir Putin. Jesus of this Cathedral wrote a tank held a general's rank when the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank. It is maybe not possible to overstate the significance of the Second World War, or as I said the Russians call it the Great Patriotic War. To the, Russian character and culture. For Modern Russians the defining struggle of Russian history more so than the Bolshevik revolution of nineteen seventeen or even. The triumphant two thousand eight year of Eurovision victory of Russian pop singer Dima Balon with his emotional ballads believe shocking because that was glory. The video of that as well in the show notes I promise you, it must be seen to be believed. Swear to me, you'll watch it all the way to the end, and if you don't get a time traveling cocaine contact, I will give you your money back. I watched this video. Uncle Mark sent it to us to prepare for the show today and I want to live a life where I ended up in a white tailored suit with with no shoes, kneeling on a stage, playing the violin. I want I wanNA. Be that guy. There was a part of within an coked up figure skater just spinning around you at impossible RPM's. Did you notice something about that though that? There was the violinist, the singer and figure skater, and they were all in a little ring of ice that was about eight feet wide tiny K I don't even think it was I think it was. Some substance synthetic thing. Yeah, there's like a synthetic the whatever it was. There was one dude on that little pedestal skating on razor blades literally around. The pedestal was barefoot I. Know Yeah. I was so cringing. He's getting Eliza fucking toe. To Toe Something Russia Skater Doug. Your, that figure skater was one of the Russian figure skaters that was involved in the two thousand two Olympic. judge purchasing scandal that happened right here in good old. Salt, Lake City. He was an advocate, national hero, other guy. So anyway. Back back to World War, two. But for Real Joseph Stalin's Russia did eventually defeat defeat Hitler's Germany after I stupidly believing that Hitler would honor their nonaggression pact spoiler. He did not. He was kind of a stinker that way. Then throwing a generation of Russian humanity into an existential conflict with the far more developed and technically advanced Germany. While, Nazi Germany lost a staggering five point three million troops on multiple fronts. Stalin's USSR at least according to the Russian Defense Ministry and this Cathedral's designers lost thirty three million Russian soldiers on the single front with Germany. Hopefully. Why that number is higher than most estimates. And also does not obviously include civilians, which was probably an equivalent number. By the way, but if true, that means, there was more than six to one loss rate against Germany. Obviously. These were not evenly matched adversaries while Germany had highly developed industries and the most advanced military technology in the world. Russia had an ocean of land, horrendous winters, and an almost inexhaustible reservoir of poor peasants to throw into the breach. Along with a leader that might have been even more malevolent towards his own people than Hitler was. Right long story short they fucking one and on May second nineteen forty five. Soviet troops raise the red hammer and sickle. Standard over the ruins of Berlin. So let's cut our Russian comrades some slack for wanting to commemorate their unlikely triumph over the Nazi war machine. Despite Stalin's arguably equivalent missing therapy Russia used what Russia had available to defeat the world's greatest super power at the time. So they deserve a couple of point of order. The US obviously defeated. Hitler everybody knows that Azam Quentin. Tarantino read a book. I mean watch. A movie. So. But commemoration of a massive sacrifice and victory, and the further degradation of civil society and freedoms should not be the same thing. If this were simply the Russian Orthodox Church. Undertaking this massive effort, it would be one thing. But it's not that I remember. That was essentially commissioned by the Defense Ministry and built on its land in a giant militaristic impact. Right, so the cathedral was per. Project was supposed to be built solely from private donations, but the directors who work to keep the financing and budget super-secret. And, because nothing in modern, Russia's really what appears to be firstly, they claim to the entire project and you guys have seen. This video only cost eighty seven million US dollars. I suppose if it's four times that I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, it's a colossal undertaking covered in fucking gold. Built at a breakneck pace like that would normally be a five six year project. Yeah, yeah, that that amount of money wouldn't cover the ceilings. Of that no, it wouldn't cover the mosaic so. Investigative reporting also turned up evidence that the Kremlin has contributed at least half the money meaning this war church was has sucked up secretive unknown millions in taxpayer funds. There's also a lot of controversy about how. The actual donations were acquired. As it's really a military project top brass. It is a huge prestige project for them. And they've personally dumped in huge sums as officers and generals and according to the same investigative reports, they've also pressured lower officers to cough up huge sums who, in turn coerce lower ranking cadet? Some grunts to contribute contribute their meager incomes, leaving them almost any Louis. But if they refused, they don't get paid at all. Said salary in the Russian military is apparently solely based on assessment of individual conduct. So super corrupt right and remember not everyone in the Russian military's in Orthodox Christian. There are plenty of Muslims Christians of other stripes. nonbelievers being forced to pay for this thing. In a country that at least on paper does not have an official religion yet. Right so. Let's literally like the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church are so hand in hand lockstep like best besties and Hooton has a ridiculous notion like we talked about. We talked about other did the twentieth century dictators earlier in the show? You can get rid of a church, or you can just see it as a useful system. For controlling people and that's exactly what Putin's done right. So anyway big! The big oligarchs kicked money and those red bricks I mentioned earlier they were donated by Kalashnikov the makers of the most prolific weapon of war, ever produced AK47 and its variants, a weapon so effective and so fucking cheap. It's the gun of choice of the poorest of insurgencies and revolutionaries, and yes, terrorists everywhere. There are at the moment probably one hundred million in circulation in the world. That goes off. It's also one of the most popular guns if for in our homegrown terrorists. Definitely is the right wing of this country is is is a fan. So it was that Kalashnikov donated the lovely red bricks for the Cathedral of the Resurrection of Christ. That's the most rushing thing you will probably here today. So. The murals now. When you watch the video, you will see some of these exquisite mosaic Murals fucking beautiful. But photographs leaked awhile back of some well. Controversial images on them one of them being the face of the denounced genocidal psychopath Joseph Stalin. His face is on a banner carried by soldiers, celebrating the end of World War Two so his direct body is his actual images arguably not in it. So the directors of the project project explained him away as part of the actual history of the war. And he's hard to separate from it obviously so okay sure. But. Then there was a panel showing the current and likely forever President Vladimir, Putin and his Living Defense Minister Sergei, Shoyigu and the current head of the secret police, and even Russia's current puppet in Crimea more on that in a second. Okay, that's weird, but it's not unusual for leaders of post-soviet kleptocracies to build monuments to themselves. See Turkmenistan and Turkmenbashi for one Classic Example Right, but even long-suffering Russians found the mural. In. Bad. Taste in the press was really bad. And reportedly at the direction of Putin himself. The mural was removed. His spokesman said. When he was told about this Putin smiled and said someday are thankful. Defend descendants will appreciate our merits, but it is too early to do so now. Did he say that, while looking out over, you know his kingdom with a glass of brandy. I. Love, I feel like he was somehow communicating telepathically directly to his descendants. Wave me there is yet another bureau with a group of modern people standing around a banner that says Crimea is ours. If you recall the two thousand fourteen unofficial wink annexation of Crimea from Ukraine was supposedly the work of local pro quo, Pro Kremlin regular forces. But were widely known to be Russian troops without insignia that were dubbed the little green men. They are the modern people standing around that banner, so Russia already a very bad actor on the international stage became something more of a pariah state after the Crimean invasion, getting heavily sanctioned, kicked out of the g seven etc, etc.. But here they are admitting to The Hague's essentially in the form of a mosaic mural yet. Was Us. Fuck you? Know but with all the World War Two Stalin the ancient iconography and the failed. Attempt to get Putin and his goons rendered as heroic holy icons. The really troubling thing is that. The Putin Easter's are trying to rewrite or reedit Russian civilization as a mythic Christ a fascist warrior Colt with a direct line from Jesus through Peter the great through Stalin and ultimately to Putin. To, Fuse Church in state at the worst possible point, a nuclear, armed, military and an anti-democratic. Despotic failed petrous state. And this church is a brick and mortar is brick and mortar evidence of the nightmarish road that seems unfortunately likely to lie ahead for our Russian friends. Now if you don't believe me, let me quote the words of head of the Russian Orthodox Church. Patriarch correal. Concentration consecration ceremony. With this harmony between the might of the armed forces and the spiritual might of the Church of the spiritual and the material of Church and state. Let the path of our people go into the future in peace and prosperity and of this path, godwilling let there be new victories new achievements, and no defeats so here's the thing you can't go into piece. And have victories. That's a bit of a bit of a contradiction. Probably so. So Holy Army can in turn only make holy war, the cause of which would automatically have to be just so, how could it not be? So anyway, that's that's the story of the Insane Nuclear Nakhalin Russia. Guys will on I'm fascinated by the fact that any that Vladimir. Putin was moved by public opinion. You know what I mean like. It must have been so i. don't know that that's that seems crazy to me such an guard. This is a really big move I. Think and he's smart enough that I think he knows it had needs to be handled carefully right there, just kind of recreating Russia as an entirely new being like a phoenix. Ed so just to finish like so many things Russian and I say this as a person who's been there. It's kind of amazing and kind of frightening at the same time. And if I go back, and I'd love to go back. I am for sure going to this place. And open to the public. Yeah, it's part of this park. I'm totally and. It's also got this amazing museum complex attached to it where these super interactive. Exhibits big of different battles and stuff, so it's very much a public place. So anyway. That's it by the way screen displays where you can blow up different countries and see what happened whole. You can annex all kinds of peninsulas by the way when I was looking at a list of Russian leaders through history. This is the fun shit. You learn doing the stuff. Yeah, yeah, Peter Peter the Great and Ivan, the terrible sound like major dudes, but why do we never hear vassily dark or vassily the squint or or false dmitry the first. Where's their war cathedral? I also learned of the Bald Hairy Bald Hyphen Dash Harry Ironic joke in Russian politics. It's a real thing. And it's really funny sense. Czar Nicholas the first all the way through. Vladimir Putin, Russian, leaders have alternated between Balden Harry Harry Replacement Bald Guy, bald guy. Replaces Guy. There's a whole chart. It's silly, but Russians have to dig pretty deep for comedy. Oh. My God yeah it well there you go. Were you know what did you know? Russians Vladimir Putin's been president of that country for twenty years, and you know clearly doing berry bad things, but at least they get. A cathedral out of it. He's ruining our country. And what are we fucking get? Yet he's on. He's been president. He has been charged for since one thousand, nine, hundred nine. Yeah, yeah. And he's trying to get the Duma to rewrite the constitution, so it can be president for the rest of his life so he. They haven't already done that. I mean how ya all, but in all, but you know were typed words so look for that. Let's comforting there. You GotTa War Church. A church Lubinov. Gentlemen. Hello, how do once again? More people have signed up to to be patrons of our art. You know these people the longest time. All all the good art was patronized by had had one major patron, and that was the church. That's right, and and so it all ended up being. About Ding, dongs. Chopping their own heads off and carrying them around or whatever. Yeah! So it's good that we are in an era now. When Non Church support can still create good things some. we have some folks, so thank who are who who have gone to the how to heretic. Website and clicked on the support thing and that's taken them to the the Patriot. And then you choose how much you WANNA. Give per episode, and and and you know your level of support is. Is Your Business Right but here are the people that we need to thank. I, thank you to the turn-up of terror. Lord El Paso. Thanks to Brian Jane, Bell and I think it's my turn to give a saint, and the state goes to Chris and Chris. Your saint is Saint Glenn of crew Chiba. And Glenn is the patron saint of of. Very very aggressive fish. And of black beans and And Sausage. And of Copious and unnecessary plastic surgery. Oh. No a quick question just clarity. Is Are these fish that are by nature, aggressive, or are these fish that are driven by circumstances to become aggressing. It's you know what I think. It applies to both Holy Shit. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, you get you. Get all the good stuff you just when you patronize the. Heritage that's that's a lot of saint. It's all upside baby. Yeah, yeah! If, you can't afford to be our patron. That's fine, but hey, why not tell tell a friend about our show? Why not give us? You know five stars on the old I tunes or wherever you find us? Yes, I'll give five stars on spotify. Yeah tunes. Would it hurt you would just. Would it be so hard? Yeah? Yeah, so do that and we will look. We will look for those stars to illuminate our night sky, and bring us closer together on this beautiful flat earth so with that. Why don't we do more show? How Hawks do it? Alkyl Doug. Ho. I. Don't know where you fall along the taste spectrum of the Mars Confectionery Company. A lot of thoughts about that. Yeah, I know we've talked about this. On I mean this is probably what we talk about the most, and we do just about about your your your mounds, Almond Joy I. Don't want you guys to Snicker, but my my opinion worth one hundred grand right? Wow! Boom was on deck with that that was. That was improvised humor right there. They're. Very Mormon humor and I think jokes about confections are our wheelhouse so. What. What's Your Opinion Dan? What's your favorite of the candy bars? you know I? I love a lot of them. I think what you're leading me to is is the youngest of the of the the candy confections? The Christ Child of the candy confections the baby. If you will yes. One Baby Ruth Yes I. Don't Know Old Alcoholic Baseball player never made sense to me, but What we're talking about here is the namesake of that of said confection yes. The book of Ruth. Candy Bar obviously yes. Yes, exactly Now I'm going to, but before we get to that I'm just GONNA say. I am sorry I know guys that we were all very disappointed last month. When we realized that yet again, we had let the Jewish holiday of Charlotte pass us by unobserved. How did we let that happen? Damn you Siri. Didn't you remind me anyway? As you know show, vote is the day that Jews celebrate when on. Mount Sinai God gave the Torah to Moses and the Jews I know I know you thought Moses. Received the Ten Commandments. When he went up the mountain wrong, he apparently received the Torah to. What a shock! It must have been for them to be given a scroll in which was written the very story that they were in the middle of being in. A bunch of stuff that was going to happen in their future after all Moses went up to Sinai in Exodus, so there were still three more books than the Torah that came after that. trippy man! Yes, anyway, that's that's where the term scroll ahead came from. Nailed. You are on a roll man. What's your anyways it the Gingko below. It's it's it's the it's Mana A- anyway. Show vote is a very strange lesser holiday where people celebrate in several ways they go to synagogue to pray. They stay up late talking about the importance of the Torah. They eat a meal heavy in dairy. You can insert your own Jewish digestion joke here. But one of the biggest traditions of show votes is the reading of the Biblical Book of Ruth Oh now along with esther. Ruth is one of two books in the Bible named after a woman. Actually that may not be true for all I know. Zephenia or Hagai might be women. I have no idea on that one. Nobody no way to tell really not. So one thing's for sure though. Because these books are about women they are uncharacteristically and very mercifully short biblical books. That's. Doug's number one rule the Bible boom. Maybe you gotta go for the The lady. Books Ruth is only four chapters long, so that's what I'm going to be talking about today. now you should know. I didn't choose the story of Ruth because it was a particularly interesting story or even crazy in some way. I literally just got curious. What a book in the Bible that focuses on a woman might be like. So I thought I thought you chose it. Why. Candy Bar side, which I know is a big issue for you that that is the Mormon temple name given to your betrothed wife. That is true. Yeah, that's true and now and now I can come to her and tell her I understand her namesake. And soon you guys will be able to do that, too. All Vail we all be able to call her fourth in the final days. So I don't know whose wife she'll be in the end I. Guess Whoever says I. Doug and I can just prank caller through the Vale right exactly. Doug's Doug. You're actually the only one with The Holy Malkhaz addict priests. Gave that up about seven years ago. You get you get you get a free Andrea out of it if you can. Enjoy it I. Don't know. Give it a shot Joe Anyway. So. Here's the gist of the story. The town of Bethlehem was having a famine. Which seems careless of them? Anyway? A Hebrew man who lived there decided to take his wife and two sons and go to a place that you know had food. Now, this guy dies immediately in the story, but he was a man so unsurprisingly even for a story about a woman. He has a name which is Elimelech. which is what is surprising, is that his wife also is named, and she is called Naomi. Anyway Elimelech. takes the family to the land of the MOA bites. Who aren't Hebrews, so we know they're likely bad people. Actually fun fact. The Moa Bites are the descendants of MOAB. who was the product of that time when lot's daughters got themselves pregnant by getting their dad drunk and raping him. Remember that? That was MOHEB YEP so apparently? He did pretty well for himself. Because now he has a whole kingdom of people named after him. So? Elimelech and Naomi make the grueling thirtyish Mile Trek to settle their in MOAB. Apparently. That's far enough away that there wasn't any more famine there. I don't know thirty miles. That's enough I guess. Anyway before you know it. Dies so Naomi, and the boys are on their own, but never fear because the boys find themselves some cute local girls, and get married Roy these progressive Jews in their interfaith marriages for them. So those girls were ruth and or PA who. Doug is who or pro winfrey was named after. Which which is true? Yeah, that's true. they all lived their happy little lives in Moab for ten years, and then well, apparently, the Elimelech jeans were not particularly hardy. Because both of the boys die to Oh dance. No Word on how this happened, but we now have three widows trying to figure out what to do with themselves. Naomi has heard that they have that. They cancelled the famine back in Judah so she decides she's going to go back. To her people, Both ORCA and ruth decide to go with her, but she tells them not to come saying that they should stay and find themselves new husband's there in Moab, which seems a little callous considering. She seems to be the only family they have left, but whatever they'll all. Get along I guess. They cried together, and then the girls say no. We still want to come and live with. You will come. But Naomi Again Says No. I'm old. I can't provide you with any more husbands. and we're super poor now and. And I never liked you. Anyway. You go back now. You're here, you go back. was apparently she apparently could take a hint and was like fuck this bitch and she had back, but ruth is not as good at taking a hint, and she is determined to stay with Naomi no matter how hard she tries to get rid of her. She says the famous line. Where you go, I will go and where you stay, I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Now, that is the moment that the Jews celebrate Ruth's big conversion to Judaism, but I gotta say there is not much. Hey made about it in that book the lines. That line is really the only word on the matter. And I got in the context of this story. Ruth's religious conversion couldn't seem less important. I know lots of people who were converted to religion who converted to religions to feel accepted by the people that they love and admire the idea that this is some amazing change of heart where suddenly Jewishness is a big deal to. Ruth is really not born out in the book, but. Whatever? Anyway they head back to Bethlehem. Boom moving onto chapter two. Now. We have to unmarried women very impoverished trying to make their way in Bethlehem. The famine may be over, but that doesn't mean that these two have enough to eat, so ruth decides to do a thing that apparently poor people did. It was barley harvest time, so ruth went into the fields. The harvesters had been through and collected any stocks of grain that they might have missed. Now the owner of this field Boaz, saw her gleaning and was impressed with her diligence. That's it. Her diligence is what he was interested. We've diligence. Yeah she's got a nice set of diligence. If you know Oh my God, you're punctual. Anyway he asks one of the harvesters who she is and the. Well, that's not exactly true. He asks more pertinent biblical question. Who does she belong to? Because women are not people, they are possessions. They told Boaz that. She was the MOA bite. Who came back with Naomi now? This didn't seem to faze him. He went to her and told her that she could totally glean in his field after the harvest. If you know what I mean, yeah. Anyway you go ahead and get what grain you can I've told my men not to rape you or whatever so you should be okay. Also can you have? You can have water from my workers? PITCHERS and I'm Super Generous so you know. Did you know rich to? You could probably have acute huge crush on me if you WANNA, do. Anyway Ruth was like. Why are you being nice to me? I'm just a piece of Shit Moa. Bite. Who hasn't even high as high on the social ladder is your servants. But it turns out. That Boaz was related to Elimelech Naomi's husband and he had heard that ruth had been kind to Naomi which he thought was nice. At mealtime! Boaz called Ruth Ruth over to him, and gave her bread dipped in vinegar which I take to be. A good thing. He gave her all saw. MIC is nice. Yeah, sure then. He gave her a big Shittu of roasted grain. which well I guess that's also apparently Nice. It was more than she could eat. kept the leftovers. She pocketed the leftovers and then when she got up to go out to the fields, he told his men to leave a bunch of grain behind as they had harvested. As they harvested so that she would get more Here's a real romantic this guy. Then Ruth went home to Naomi and gave her the leftover roasted grain. Sweet and an all the barley that she'd been able to gather which happened, which was actually kind of a lot, and that's how they lived while the harvest was happening. Chapter Three. One day. Naomi said to ruth girl. We gotta get you a husband Stat. You're not getting any younger and this whole leftover grain gig won't last forever, so. What do you think about this Boaz Guy? Now Ruth was cool with Boas. Naomi came up with a plan. They knew Boaz would be winnowing that night. That's a grain harvest thing sure, so Naomi I the one rabbit hole. That I really went down than the the Jewish holiday. Rabbit hole was the grain harvesting out rabbit hole, but I decided to spare you all the details anyway. They knew that boas would be winnowing, so they know. Naomi told Ruth to put on her prettiest. WHATEVER THE FUCK! They were back, then I wanNA say. SACK. For the sake of the story, we'll just say her best clothes. Put on your best rag and tied up with your best rope fragment. Yeah, exactly She was also also told her to wash and put on perfume. So you know this ship was getting serious. That's good advice. Yes, it is She said to go down to the threshing floor again a grain thing. But. Don't let him know that you are there. Hide behind the grain. I guess I'm picturing her in gillies suit covered in Burley stocks like military sniper. Anyway Ruth was supposed to watch as she would wait until he had eaten and tossed back a few drinks and then note where he went to sleep. Then, she would sneak over to him. I think you know where I'm going with this I. Keep going Jesus. What fuck it I'll just quote the Damn Bible to you and let you guys figure it out. Quote now this is Naomi talking to. Ruth. Quote when he lies down. Note the place where he is lying, then go and uncover his feet and lie down. He will tell you what to do. which ruth replies, I will do whatever you say. Now I submit to you that anyone reading this. Honestly, that is to say anyone to anyone who doesn't have a desperate need to bend and twist everything in the Bible to be pure and wholesome. It is crystal clear. What is going on here? Yeah? You have a young woman getting all seat up and going to an older rich man to convince him to marry her using the only tool she has available. It's a tale as old as time. Well so it this is this the only biblical story I'm aware of where some sort of consent was established of right. Yeah, I mean that that is, that's progressive right there, yeah? Ruth does this and when Boaz wakes up in the middle of the night, he finds a sweet young thing lying next to him. Who Are you? He says I'm ruth. She says spread your garment over me because you're the big important man of the family. Now yes, in a metaphorical sense. She is asking him to cover her to bring her under his protection. Also, she is very literally telling him to let her into his clothing. It really doesn't get any less ambiguous than that. I I'm afraid I don't see where you can you. This isn't sexy. Time Up. Sorry, a hundred percent and be sure that we get what's happening. Here's Boaz's response. Quote the Lord bless you daughter this. This kindness is greater than that showed earlier. You have not run after the younger men whether rich or poor. What kindness! Uncovering his feet as he slept, asking for a corner of his garment. No the only way that that response makes any sense, is if she? Did some kindnesses for him. Well after that he gushes about her for a while, and then tells her to sleep next to him until morning. Oh, but she'd better scurry off before sunrise because we wouldn't want anybody talking. Now. That's a classic move to exactly. The rest of the book is a bunch of Legalese about how the guy was. How another guy was actually a closer relative tonight into Naomi Than Boas, so he had the first right of refusal on Ruth who apparently came as a package deal with Naomi's husband's inheritance, because women after all our property fortunately, though the other relative wanted the land, but was less enthusiastic about ruth, so he took off his Sandal, and gave it to boas, which I guess is a the weirdest equivalent to shaking hands, and the deal was done Boaz married Ruth, and they all lived happily ever after. So the book ends with this little tip tidbit. Boaz and ruth gave birth to OBE ed. Who then fathered Jussie who then sired? David. That is a long walk for that payoff, isn't it? It sure as hell is. Quick Recap of the story, the heroine of the book of Ruth First Mary's a guy who dies follows her mother-in-law back to her home switches, religions sleeps so the rich old guy to get him to marry her, and eventually becomes the great grandma of somebody famous the end. What unnecessary story yeah. Funny because as I was researching this thing. I've. A lot of Jewish. Rabbis have expounded on this story quite a lot, and apparently in the in in the Talmud. There's a lot of like other stories a lot of other. Legends surrounding this story and one of them is that or by the the the mall by woman who went back to MOAB? Somehow had sex with. Hundreds of soldiers and all at the same time. And that was and that was how she gave birth. To, the Goliath, oh my. So she who is the sister-in-law of the Great Grants Grandmother of David was the mother of the giant Goliath David I'm not sure how that works out. And that, doesn't it also mean the David and Goliath were like cousins, yes. Yeah okay. That's an interesting twist to the story. Family issue. We didn't know that we just thought they were. It was war, but it's clearly a some some cousin rivalry. Yeah and go speaking down really quickly to your to your. We were talking about women's names in the Bible's. At up and weight really quickly for if you don't mind what it's I found here. Professor Karla Baumbach says one study produced a total of three thousand to thirty one hundred names, twenty, nine, hundred of which are men with one hundred and seventy of the total being women. In the Bible however, the possibility duplication produced the recalculation of a total of seventeen hundred distinct personal names in the Bible with one, hundred, thirty, seven of them, being women, and yet another study of the Hebrew Bible only there were a total of fourteen hundred twenty six names. With thirteen hundred and fifteen, belonging to men and one hundred eleven to women, seventy percent of the named and unnamed women in the Bible. Come from the Hebrew Bible. Despite the disparity seventy percent, so that means there's hardly any in the New Testament despite the variety. Among these different calculations. It remains true that women are women's names represent five point, five and eight percent of the total names in the Bible. a study of women who's spoken. Words are recorded found ninety three of which forty nine women were named so. Good Job Bible. Bible? Yeah Doing Great. It's no wonder that we all call it the book just because it's true. Is it necessary I don't know. All Right Ruth Yeah. Let's close the book on that. There's there's not much use in that by. Well friends. That is it for this week show? Hey, we'd love to hear from you if you did something from one of these stories, please send us an email. Out to and how to heretic DOT COM Or if you got your head run over by the Bundy's Mellon truck as well, you can leave us a voicemail about it. At nine, three, eight, two, nine, three, eight, four, six, hundred, six, I'm also on twitter at Howard, and a mighty thanks to our honorable and wonderful patrons, and thank you to our ballistic missiles site, Cody Layton for editing the show and thanks. All of you friends for tuning in the by friends to talk.

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