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"builder society" Discussed on The Majority Report with Sam Seder
"Welcome back to the majority report joining us. Now is professor Mohamed denied. He's a professor of anthropology at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts Jihad as you've investments call you professor as I'm tempted to call you. How are you thanks for being here? Hi Michael. It's a pleasure to be. aww It majority report so can you start by just giving us a fresh sort of we've talked about on the show but give us a review as to what has happened in Kashmir over the last several months from the government in Delhi so for those listeners. Who Don't know Because Shamir so well Just wanted to let you know that Kashmir is at the heart of three major countries mm Tris all of them have nuclear weapons India and China. It's Himalayan region with a long history and It became part of this dispute between in India and Pakistan in nineteen forty seven and British left the subcontinent Leaving Kush mediais In state of limbo because they were not allowed love to decide their future whether they would go with India Pakistan or whether they would prefer to remain independent so in the aftermath of the partition in nineteen forty seven India. India signed the treaty with the ruler of Kashmir. Who was an art? Presentative figure for Kashmir's it's called the instrument of accession and and based on that tricky India had incorporated too key articles in the constitution Article Three seventy and article thirty five eight which became a constitutional kind of link between India and Kashmir Article Three seventy was about Bush meat is autonomy That lose most of Camis the decisions that affect cushman would be taken by assembly in Kashmir except for Defense Communication and external affairs and article thirty five a was about land and permanent residency who could live in Kashmir who buy land immovable property in Kashmir and then This system has continued for seven decades. Almost in little watered down form but on August five Two Thousand Nineteen Indian government Withdrew and revoked. Article three seventy without consulting cashmere concuss meetings and also revoked. Thirty five eight All of this was done by kind of What committees perceived as the seat seat because most of Kashmir was under severe lockdown People's phones were taken away. They could not call anyone. They could not connect with anyone. The Internet was shutdown In a so right now we are like four months into it and that process continued. Kush Amedee's have not been able to express their opinion on what has happened of these articles. And what in terms of how you understand the government in Delhi's move and you you talked about the land issue Obviously there is a you know sort of the Hindutva dimension and I'd like to talk about the ideology of Narendra Modi BJP government but they're also something going on here. That may be in. You know bear with me. It's analogies. Aren't perfect but something that's almost more analogous in some respects to something like Puerto Rico or or another kind of like they're basically there's an opportunity to also do a lot of very primitive capital accumulation. Right now you can get people off of pretty prime real estate eight Some of the most beautiful places in the world's I haven't had the privilege of going at least even just kind of on a You know as I've seen represented in film and photography the ski slopes there's there there's money to be made capital to be accumulated in in the clips of Sort of Indian sort of mainstream right wing media that I've seen there's cert there's the sort of stuff you expect with the BJP Hindutva Stafan often terrorism rhetoric and so on but there I've also seen clips that are like this is going to be a bonanza. There's great money making opportunities here. So what's the sort of relationship of what's happening here. Between the kind of broader nationalist project consolidation and the identity politics of it and the capital accumulation dimension So we are living in a historically a moment when crony any capitalism has met This nativist kind of populist nationalism. And it's happening in a variety of spaces across the globe. India is particularly Blatant case for this because It's the lives of one point. Two three billion people that are at stake. Okay Now let me just like break it down a little bit The RSS which is currently regime That runs India India. Narendra Modi the prime minister although he has parties called. BJP BJP is just a political front for USCIS. Modine himself is a lifelong member of fought. Artists are assists has its roots in nineteen twenties at emerged as a sort of a nationalist organization. Taking inspiration Asian from The rise of Nazism Germany and Fascism in Italy it believed in Hindu supremacist ideas. It believed in Eugenics and I believe that nationalism trumped every other concentration you know so being Indian is primary or being human So so this is the party that kind of into assassinated a member of this body assassinated Gandhi and they came they were kind of low lying For you're a pretty long time did ideas whereas dispersed across the political sphere but in the nineties early ninety s when India was going this massive restructuring of its economy where You know these I am prescribed Destructive policies taking away benefits from people people ending the body distribution system Selling off national assets to domestic capless. All of this kind of coalesced together at that time. Time and the nationalist national supported these domestic accumulation In the hands of Fu People like Ambani's Adani's the BIRLA's Tatas were these big industrial houses in India and The these big outlets Ben Affleck use. I use this nativist national hyper-nationalist discourse to get rid of the Some of these democratic debates democratic institutions Russians Trying to persuade people away from questions of inequality and economy words fearmongering towards Creating internal threat And so all of this has led to a situation where in India which is probably one of the among the two topmost unequal societies in the world where the top one percent of the population Owns basically seventy five a person of the national wealth Where almost quarters of a belt generated and the economy goes to the top ten percent of the people and You know oh so. This inequality has kind of coexisted And allowed this natives rhetoric to go on and now with the revocation of seventy thirty five a the Indian government led by BJP. Moldy wants to do two things incursion made one it wants to Demographically Change The region by bringing in Indian people who can like basically do You Know Oh come in turn Kashmir's into minority and remove Through demographic transformation the question of self-determination which still remains ought to be You know address Starting to mindful from Kush meetings and second and most importantly they want to sell off Bushmeat the pristine lands of Kashmir which is like logically very fragile to these crony capitalism who've been supporting them who've been funding the elections I'm so all of that. Process has already begun. And so actually. So maybe it's also kind of like in some ways analogous Tibet in terms of the kind of occupation occupation and population engineering and also a huge amount of Ecological resources to be determined so to be Acquired let's come back to India in a minute. Let's talk about the other two players here and let's start with podcastone one of basically just balance silence. I mean there's no doubt that obviously the sort of RSS Propaganda and the main sort of perspective of justifying this behavior in terms of international no press and people who defend it you know the just sort of repeat terrorism talking points now And so you know that's important. I know you'll push back into bunket Donkin at the same time I mean obviously Pakistan has actually funded Some of these types of groups even independently of Kashmir willing back to like the attack on the Oh oh boy hotel two thousand eight that great atrocity and India and Pakistan have their own Dynamic which in some ways it seems like Pakistan may be you know hasn't even more kind of limited foreign policy in terms of its focus really specifically on India so what is is Pakistan's role here both in terms of what part of Kashmir is in Pakistan and are in fact is the human rights situation on the Pakistani side better than on the Indian side or worse or equal and to what extent has there been not in in the current escalation. Meaning the politics of that is obvious in terms of. What's coming out of the nationalist? Crony politics of of Delhi right now but historically I have some of the groups and some of the things that Pakistani Pakistan has funded. Have they engaged in atrocities. Yes so let me. First Begin by saying that As a scholar of Kushner I don't see cushman necessarily as a territorial dispute between India and and Pakistan. Although globally under discoursed on Cushman has been basically captured by India and Pakistan they claim Pakistan teams to be the unfinished business of partition and India blames Pakistan for all that is happening in Cushman's So what Kush meetings he's been trying to do from Los. Seventy years is to center themselves and claim that Kashmir belongs to sh. Mary's and push media should be the people who decide did the their fate and their future Now of course you know. Nineteen forty seven Part of Kashmir came under pakistan-controlled control which meant that Pakistan became kind of like a party to this question And there are a lot of regions of Kashmir that are under Pakistani control. Control Right now So since nineteen forty seven India and Pakistan have fought several wars And most of these wars have happened. They they can place or Kashmiri territory affecting Schmidt. He's the most you know the committee's who died in these wars In nineteen ninety committees. AMEDEE's rose up in rebellion against the Indian control and Moss purpose which brutally suppressed There were massacres. There's a litany of massacres really from nineteen eighty eight nine hundred ninety that took place in Kashmir at that time in response to which Young Committee activists crossed over the Line of Control and went to the other side of Krishna seeking arms training while the Pakistani government at that time showed lukewarm response to this. They likely on them gave them fifteen days training and send them back most of these young. Kush media's kind of basically died as soon as they came in thousands of Kashmiri the militants who had so basically bait and barely any training way dying. And you have to remember a time. Also then I've gone situation is is boiling over Soviet Union left Afghanistan. And there's a war going on between the jubilees regime and the so-called majority Dean who who actually win and many of these militants are are then like transported into Kashmir by the Pakistani establishment abdomen and the Pakistani establishment basically sought to create a constituency in push meet where the the militants kind of the only ones uh-huh who had Some power would be the ones who speak the pro-pakistan language like that Kush mission merged with ECKSTEIN and those cash Amedee's the majority who wanted to be independent and we're fighting India for that Where slowly silenced of course by Indian repression but also by Pakistani manipulation Yes On many of these groups that came into Kashmir with Islamist. They were Some of them believed in Jihad some of them believed in global jihad but overall sentiment in committee has been centered on Kush made committees auto pluralistic people people. You know we have a long history of You know being A plural society with Dolled reading differences and like our Very Progressive Boston in fact in nineteen forty S. One of the major events was the adoption of this constitution. Institution call Not A concentrator documental fish media which imagined a progressive free democratic pluralistic cushman That sentiment has remained and it's are at the heart of the Kashmiri struggle Southam nation because most Kush media's believe Of course that India and Pakistan have not been able to be fair and just to push me. Res And India has of course failed as an idea to the for Kashmir so the only solution is to basically you know charge one course and Builder Society loosely Pluralistic Society that she deserves so yeah and this is really important. I just want to underline this. Oh I mean yeah so. International Rhetoric and security rhetoric is India versus Pakistan. What is the Indian record? There does India deserve it. What are the nation notions of Nationhood and India House relate the Kashmir in Pakistan takes you know independent Actors who want independence an actual autonomy for Kashmir and then obviously weaponize it for their own own Nationalistic foreign policy aims and missed inside. All of that is this ongoing reality. That Kashmir really is independent thing thing with its own autonomous direction and desire which is suppressed By these two nationalist impulses. Yeah okay What is China's role in all of this So China's China's role first of all. Of course it's As I said it's the neighboring country. its borders meet cushman through Tibet which it occupied in the fifties and Part of the historic territory of what was the state of German cushman before nineteen forty seven was taken over by China in nineteen sixty two during India China War So China has control over part of Kashmir part of this state of Kashmir China is also an ally of Pakistan although much of on that alliances built on like you know issuing statements but north actually being a force on the ground.