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"buckley baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

C-SPAN Radio

05:24 min | 7 months ago

"buckley baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

"Of do not assume authorized to jettison all in time civilization the only thing that the white man has the Negro should want is that is how and so Buckley goes on like that for a bit and then he he this sort of major I guess substantive argument of Buckley makes for the end of his speech as he says the American racial situation is the product of an and forty calls an unfortunate conjunction of two factors on the one hand there are individual races out there and Buckley says that is a problem it's important to note that language or individual races a few bad apples if you will on the other side there are failures of the of the Negro community so uses the individuals on the one side community on the other and he says that although it's it is important the more opportunities be afforded African Americans it's also he says important for people like Baldwin to play the role of trying to encourage people with an eye his community is is Buckley puts it to take advantage of the opportunities that exist so I think that's a very deliberate word choice by Buckley and so I say that you know the slogans civil rights movement is freedom now Buckley slogan is some freedom one day when we decide you're ready is is the way I would I would conclude that so just wrap things up and then I'll take your questions Buckley involvement do me one more time so the the the debate happens February eighteenth March seventh nineteen sixty five is is known as Bloody Sunday if you seen the film some a you know what happens that day you see a protesters brutalized by album a lot law enforcement officers the the the debate transcript to condense transcript is published in The New York Times that same day the same day as bloody Sunday the Buckley Baldwin debate debate appears in New York times Sunday magazine Buckley involved in then invited on the television to meet again on the show David such kinds of those of you who you know may may be familiar with such kind here show called open end the last thing on at night so they can just keep talking and talking and talking and talking to they passed out in nineteen sixty seven the cap the two hours so Buckley involvements out there for two hours it was right before Buckley announced his candidacy for mayor of New York City and they discuss among other things blues police brutality in New York and by most accounts Buckley got the better of Baldwin that night so in in Cambridge Baldwin wins the vote five hundred forty four to one hundred sixty four so he's tramp in that regard Buckley I gets the better of him on open and for for various reasons and as they reflect on as many people reflect on the open end experience Baldwin says there's one moment the cause me to he says to my eternal dishonor lose that debate and refused to engage a Buckley and that was when Paul was describing the conditions in Harlem and the and the conditions under which people live and Buckley says do the landlords Tippy toe uptown and throw garbage in the streets there were bald one heard when Buckley said that was that he was saying to bald one of the people in Harlem deserved their fate and those people downtown deserve their fate and for bald when that was about as low as you can go Wimbledon was asked to reflect on his encounters a Buckley a few years later the belly hills hotel nineteen sixty eight is being interviewed by the only times he says after Buckley said that what I should have done is hit him over the head with my coffee Cup now I think of course that was a joke that contained a very serious idea at its core late in the the speech a Cambridge Baldwin says what concerns me most is that if we fail to hear each other then reason will lose its authority how relevant is that today if we fail to hear each other reason will lose its authority and there will be blood there will be fire next time and all this is that is what concerns me most Buckley for his part reflects on his encounters a bald and also in nineteen sixty eight Kerry wells writes a profile of Buckley for esquire and he says that of all the debates I've had and I've had you know Buckley that hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of debates I lost the debate at Cambridge by the largest margin but it's the performance that I'm most proud of why Garry wills Assam Buckley says because I didn't give them one damn inch so there's something about this story right that is essentially tragic you have these two people who are both so gifted in their ability to communicate they're so gifted in their ability to express themselves and they have these encounters that end in disaster and I think that's a lesson that we all need to think about in Baldwin says to us that none of us are off the hook this is an important message from Baldwin Baldwin proves to be a very powerful lens through which to view some but like William F. Buckley junior the Baldwin said we make a mistake when we only focus on those who we see as our opponents or as you know political politically ill informed or even evil Baldwin says we have to all think about the ways in which we are complicit through those millions of details of every day that he talks about the speech in the ways that we serve in some of the ways we behave to perpetuate systems of power thanks a lot I really appreciate you being.

two hours one hand one day
"buckley baldwin" Discussed on The Book Review

The Book Review

16:37 min | 8 months ago

"buckley baldwin" Discussed on The Book Review

"So Buckley is very consciously trying to shape conservative movement and he has to make a lot of decisions about how the conservative movement should react to the black liberation struggle. How influential Angela is the national review in nineteen sixty five? What's circulation like an WHO's reading in the national review is is a really powerful magazine in in by by sixty five? I mean it's a magazine like a lot of magazines at struggles over the years. You know that first decade but really the the role of national review plays I think is is Buckley kind of establishes himself as sort of gatekeeper for the the movement. He's trying to sort of as as one of my colleagues puts it edit conservatism. figure out who should be part of the coalition who should be left out and so he writes certain folks out of the movement like in Rand and eventually you know Robert Welsh and the John Birch Society. So Buckley is is really playing this role. People know that the magazine has. This is sort of outsized. Role in shaping the movement and figuring out who's allowed to participant. WHO's not and so the influence at national review by sixty five? There's no question it is the most. I recognized conservative Oregon. The country and definitely although Buckley did not get to play the role that he hoped to play in the goldwater campaign. You hope to be kind of liaison between the conservative of intellectual community in the in the campaign but he he still is playing kind of informal role as as a sort of somebody's promoted. He's a promoter of ideas as a popularizer of of conservative. Conservative ideas is one of his biographers. The Saint Paul of the conservative movement. He's really an evangelist right. He's not an originator of ideas but he's he's very good at spreading the idea. He's not even originate. Peter in this particular debate. We'll get to that. Let's just here quickly a clip of Buckley from this debate in America where the Negro community is concerned is. He's a very complicated. I urge those of you who have a WHO have An actual rather than purely ideologized interest in the problem them to read the book beyond the Melting Pot by professor laser. Also Co author of the lonely proud it problem when a Jewish intellectual who points the fact that the situation in America where the Negroes are concerned is extremely complex as a result result of an unfortunate conjunction of two factors one is the dreadful athletes to eventuate this nation by many individual American citizens results of their lack of that final and ultimate concern which some people are truly find agitate the other or is as a result of the failure of the Negro community itself. Do make certain issues which were made by other minority groups. During the American experience interesting you mentioned Barry Goldwater earlier because Barry Goldwater Strom Thurmond. Both of them were original. Choices says to be the person to debate Baldwin. What happened with with them? And and how did it end up. Being William F.. Buckley that was one of the first puzzles to solve was. How did this happen in the first place and there were? There really wasn't any detailed account that I was able to find the existing literature of like. How did these two guys end up there that night? So really and it kind of happened by accident. A lot of ways. The union was contacted. By Baldwin's publicist for this is. This is Cambridge Union. The Students Union at Cambridge University in England right so so Cambridge Union the oldest debating society in the world. They had just marked the one hundred fiftieth anniversary just weeks prior to the Buckley Baldwin Debate the union's contacted by a publicist for according books. Who is promoting the paperback release a Baldwin's third novel? It's look exactly all right. So the President of union was undergraduate. Student Peter Fullerton says as well. I can't host a book that this is a debating society. So what I can do is host a debate related to the themes of Mr Baldwin's writings. And so the they. I agree to that. And it's sort of an interesting sort of back story that I was able to uncover in the Baldwin Archives of Schaumburg in Harlem was really interesting the kind of back and forth between the agents and the publicist and so on they sort of agreed in principle that Baldwin common than the first idea that Fullerton had was to say you know. Invite somebody like Strom Thurmond. Somebody who's a devoted segregationists to debate Baldwin in fourteen. Doesn't remember exactly what the response was. But he knows he knows it was negative and invited Barry Goldwater who of course of course voted against the civil rights. Act was a different kind of skeptic of of the civil bright's revolution and so at some point there was a another student at Cambridge named Michael Toobin. Hot who had met Buckley nineteen sixty three and knew enough about him to know that he it was the perfect person. For this this role. He was a skilled debater. He was a critic of the Civil Rights Movement so they contacted Buckley who is on his annual ski vacation in Switzerland. And and asked if you'd come debate and he was not WanNa turn down any opportunity to debate and he had established imprinted he thought Baldwin was as he called him an eloquent menace and he was eager to take him on a it. Cambridge headed Baldwin about Buckley and going up against him. So there isn't as much evidence of Baldwin's kind of reflections on Buckley prior to the debate that I was able to discover ever. There's no question that the Buckley was on Baldwin's radar and Buckley was a sort of figure that Baldwin was eager to challenge in one of the things I talk about in the in the book is in nineteen sixty two Baldwin was invited onto the open. Mind television program to debate James Jackson Kilpatrick who is one of the country's leading salesman for segregation nation of very close friend and colleague. Buckley Buckley's Goto guys on race. And it was the kind of thing. Where a lot about Baldwin's friends handlers? Didn't want him to do it right. You should not sit across the table from segregationists you're gonNA dignify his views by your presence but Baldwin really felt an obligation to engage with people like Kilpatrick and he actually thought that people can Patrick and Buckley. They had a great deal of responsibility to bear in the racial violence. The racial nightmare is that something that people can watch on Youtube as well or somewhere in line. Is that still out there. It's a strange thing. The open mind has an incredible archive. You can actually watch shows going back to the fifties but they don't seem to have this one and so I I hope they're Recording of it. So what what's interesting is. In at the Schaumburg. They Baldwin kept a complete transcript of that encounter. It's another thing that hadn't really been written about very much and it's I mean it's an amazing mazing just reading. It is so powerful because it's right after the battle Miss Right after. James Meredith is attempting to register for classes at the University of Mississippi. And all hell breaks loose as you know there's violence and Baldwin begins the show. They're welcome to the show and Baldwin looks at Kilpatrick and says you think there's a difference between men like you write these sophisticated books and articles defending segregation and the people in those spree streets committed committing acts of violence and he says I hold usurp far more responsible than those people in the streets because they are caught in a web of delusion this delusion of white supremacy and you are weaving that web for purposes that have nothing to do with them and he says I accuse you betraying those white people in the south you are pursuing your on a gender for your own purposes and so Baldwin starts out the the composition and then proceeds to kind of play the role of cross examining Kilpatrick for the you the duration of the show and just kind of interrogate him about his white supremacist views. It's extraordinarily powerful encounter. Yes hopefully I'm hoping what the book coming out. Maybe something things will be uncovered covered in some archive. Somebody has a recording audio or video recording of that all right until then. Let's talk about this night in its February. Eighteenth nineteen sixty five set. Set the stage for us. Who is there? How is it structured? Who could see it? How public was this? So the debate although the it came together very last minute so the sort of wheels wheels began turning on putting this night together in January sixty five in the actual night of the debate is February two nine hundred sixty five and so you have a you know. Packed the union debating hall all was filled them. If you watch the video you can see people not only sitting in every every spot on the benches and in the galleries. But they're also sitting on the floor and buckling Baldwin after like walkover. Students is. They're going they have mostly students. You also have guest to the unions. The students were many students that were there are what they call. Members of the Union have voting. They're able to vote and ask questions during the debates but the way this debate was structured was there were two Student debaters one on each side of the motion before the house was the American dream is the expense of the American Negro. And there's there's two student debaters one gives a speech on each side of that motion and then Baldwin gets up to speak and he speaks for about twenty four minutes and Buckley gets up to speak and he speaks for about twenty nine minutes. And there's no exchange between the two of them which is one of the things that is you know in some ways unfortunate about structured and that may have been due to some of the back the backroom croom negotiations about. What what they were willing? Baldwin's people especially willing to allow to happen that night but there there is one thing that's left out of the BBC recording that was really fascinating discovers dead right the one that you can see online rights when you can see online that the students speeches are edited down and then Buckley speeches edited by about a third and one of the things. That's that's edited out of the Buckley speech. Each the questions that the students asked him so at the union like in the House of Commons students could stand up and the speaker had they could call on the student to you know for point of information for a question and so there's only one of those what they called interruptions in the in the speech that you see on on Youtube and there's actually about four or five more. They're really interesting. I mean both for the questions that are asked a really good questions but also Buckley is a master of responding to those questions kind of clever way that Oh you know almost always brings elicits laughter. And he's able to kind of diffuse the situation but yeah so the the Cambridge itself kept audio recordings these debates but they did not have the audio recording of this particular debate they thought it was lost or destroyed so is able to find one of the students from that era. who had an old reel to reel copy of the full Buckley In Baldwin speeches and he sent it to me for England and I got it digitized and so that's available for folks on the Audio Book and then the full transcription the is it appendix to the book itself. What an interesting things about Buckley's speeches that he based it on a piece that was written by Gary Wills and the National Review so this wasn't something he came with organically? I think that might surprise people who are more familiar with wills leader work but most people know that he was early. John Per Day of Buckley at the National Review. What was this piece what does it say? Why did Buckley choose to base his talk on that? Buckley says that wills is is one of the national news. Great discoveries will send him you know sample of his writing. When he's very young and Buckley sees that wills has an incredible talent and brings him on and just sort of do a lot of like like reviews for National Review and then also to begin writing essays about religion and so when the fire next time of course it emerges initially the bulk of emerges in November nineteen sixty two long piece? He's for the New.

Buckley Buckley Mr Baldwin Buckley Baldwin Baldwin National Review Buckley James Jackson Kilpatrick Cambridge Barry Goldwater Youtube Peter Fullerton Oregon America John Birch Society Strom Thurmond Students Union Schaumburg Cambridge Union Angela
"buckley baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

C-SPAN Radio

14:09 min | 1 year ago

"buckley baldwin" Discussed on C-SPAN Radio

"Experiences are driving their results. Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama. Now, the US attorney general agitatedly adjusted his glasses and responded. Aren't you saying that you expect your background in heritage to influence your decision making you accept that? There may be sympathies prejudices and opinions that legitimately can influence a judge's decision. Sessions remarked. I reject such a view and Americans reject such view. I was troubled by that slippery slope between I and Americans that sessions traveled in a single breath. I molded over for days before I recognize the statement had lodged itself like a splinter beneath my skin implicit in sessions reaction was a presumption that his perspective was objective and American in a way that Sotomayor's perspective was not how impossible the situation you are raising country where you're socialized differently treated as other and then chastised for acknowledging this fact, and how odd that acknowledging that human beings are not inherently objective that their perspectives are shaped by their experiences of the world is so objectionable the sessions here so tomorrow was articulating the real work of approaching neutrality and objectivity she was acknowledging her as her experiences and examining their impact on her perspective in order to test herself. This is the same kind of work required of any human being who strives towards self awareness and self knowledge. Sessions response. Perfectly encompasses white privilege. The presumption that you're subjective way of being in and seeing the world constitutes a uniquely objective perspective, we cannot discuss I received notions of objectivity without recognizing that they are commonly located in this default, white male perspective, what we tend to think of as objectivity is actually a very particular subjectivity Runamuck. And there's a footnote here though, that I will read which is sessions is also a vehement opponent of affirmative action, which strikes me as a powerful irony. The reality we live in is by default, a robust affirmative action action programme for Whiteman. Like most Americans. I was raised to be a white, man. I read William Faulkner and Ernest Hemingway, I read Scott FitzGerald, Charles Bukowski, I came to identify with the emotionally disengaged characters the staccato sentences. The irreverend dirty old man voice the books. I read asked me to imagine the power, I might have I got women pregnant, and then worried that they wouldn't get an abortion tying me down forever. When all I wanted to do is continue experiencing my freedom. I wrote poems about the absurdity of writing poems. Enjoying the decadence of imagining my readers drinking in my disregard for them being likable, explaining oneself to others. These were not prerequisites protagonism. I watched women move their hips and dresses their lips on glasses. Their pressed heaving all of it offered up to me to enjoy to consume the fact that I was a Brown woman was not something that seemed immediately relevant when I was younger. I moved through the world with this sense that I would have access to the same kind of power is the protagonist of the books. I read in the movies. I watched of course, we all identify with white protagonists. They're almost always the heroes. The ones with the power to change things to affect things rather than simply be affected as James Baldwin put it you go to white movies. And like everybody else you all in love with Joan Crawford and you root for the good guys who are killing off the Indians. It comes with a great psychological collision when you realize all of these things are really metaphors for your oppression and will lead into a kind of psychological warfare in which you may perish. And whether it be because you are female Brown queer in any other way, visibly other from white able bodied heterosexual men, it feels like a kind of violence when you suddenly have to reckon with the differences of the body. You're in coming of age in particular constitutes a jarring emergence of double consciousness of being forced to see yourself through the eyes of others. Even as you're still trying to form a sense of self. During a summer trip to Florida to visit relatives my aunt poolside remarked upon my fourteen year old form in a bathing suit. When did you get breasts? How big are those things I felt ashamed and not just because my body was suddenly a spectacle. I already knew it was how big are those things was precisely how I felt about the strange lumps of flesh that it's sprouted from my body. They were separate from me while I was deeply embarrassed by my aunt's commentary. There was an element of identification of relating to her perspective. It seemed more of a I to me that people could look at me and assume that this newly hatched female form was somehow me instead of something that had happened to me. And yet that is the presumption that the general shape, you come to take imbues you with certain female traits to be accommodating epithets emotional sexual, but not too sexual our bodies become shorthand for a grab bag of assumptions, some of which we grow into some of which we bristled against my female has always been something that seemed to fit me poorly at turn. Outsized garment I could not fill or some skimpy rag out of which I spilled I've already made a mistake by calling the female this mine. It's never felt like thing. I owned so much as a general shape. I grew into that seemed to offer me up for public consumption. The phrase gender is a construct might strike some as academic claptrap, but ask any woman how they retreated before. And after Cuba, and you're well on your way to understanding not just the truth. But how the truth is the extent to which the entire world. And the way you must navigate it is irrevocably changed also at fourteen I remember walking down the street with k and h my closest friends in in the North Carolina college town where I grew up. We flinched when three men started cat calling us. Yeah. Baby. Marginalized majority. I remember feeling bewildered and disarmed having a reputation as being the outspoken when I felt vaguely responsible for doing something about it. But I did nothing. One of the most humiliating aspects of that moment was doing nothing. It felt like I had allowed them to do something to us. This is one of the most famous aspects of predatory behavior. It makes the target of the behavior feel complicit you might be going about your business. And then someone who has more power than you demands engagement, the kind of which even your refusal does not always free you from forcing you to play a part in a scene, you had no interest in even auditioning for a couple hours after the encounter with those men, my friends, and I back into the car and started our drive home. That's when I spotted the men still roving the sidewalk not far from where we'd encounter them. Wait. I told h who was driving slowdown. I roll down the window and started shouting at them the very same things. They'd lobbed at us. Yeah. Baby. It was a humbling and educational moments. Because of course, they loved it. I was startled in my naivete. I turn the tables, but the tables had turned I didn't have the language for it then. But this was one of the first times, I experienced how my words would always be shaped by my appearance how it would be heard differently. How they would often way less how the expectations of my female nece would become a thing. I would repeatedly have to explain justify respond to contradict. And I'm gonna read a little bit from a section called on complicity. After the election. My friend t told me her story about watching the Anita hill and Clarence Thomas hearings in one thousand nine hundred one he'll testify Clarence Thomas had sexually harassed her. While he was her supervisor at the department of education and the Equal Employment Opportunity commission. She said the Thomas had asked her out repeatedly. And when she said, no, he continually discussed sexual topics with her in the workplace watching televised hearings t told me gave her a strange sense of vertigo so much of the behavior that hill was describing was what she had experienced years back when she had been working for men who served as her mentor. He had often made overtures that made her uncomfortable turning the conversation to sexual topics glancing at her body, but she's still valued his experience and guidance. So she found ways to live with it to minimize it. It never went too far. She said, but still she was seeing the behavior differently in retrospect, while watching the hearings one day, she got a phone call from that very same mentor. She hadn't heard from him in years. He was watching the hearings to he said he wanted to know whether. What Thomas did the hill was what he had done to her. This was the point at which TI paused her story, she looked at me and shook her head in disbelief. You know what I did? She asked I told him. No, I told him. It was fine. I reassured him I've marched alongside t at a number of protests. I've seen her defendant advance the rights and voices of teenagers in the foster care juvenile Justice systems. I someone who is fiercely progressive politically engaged t- struggled as so many of us do to understand how she can minimize her experience in that way. It's notable that fifty three percent of white women voted for Trump a professed sexual predator. What does it mean that these women either decided his behavior was reasonable where they somehow thought that this quote unquote, personal aspect of his life was separate from his politics, Gloria Steinem inner memoir, my life on the road writes about how she tried to dissociate herself from her mother when she was younger because she saw her mother's pass. It meek having struggled with mental illness and given up a career journalist to raise a family. It was a stand. She came to revise when she discovered quote that we were alike in many ways, something I either hadn't seen or couldn't admit out of fear that I would share her fate. It's a denial. So many of us can relate to we want to believe we aren't subject to the same forces that limit others lives. We want to feel free to be and do anything we choose. Sometimes we become so attached to this heady narrative that will throw are true allies and even ourselves under the bus. It's frighteningly easy for so many of us in this country to empathize with those who abuse their power after all we grew up to be straight white men until we're forced to recognize that we aren't it's attention evident in the fact that times twenty seventeen person of the year was the silence breakers, all the women who had come forward about being sexually assaulted assaulted or harassed the run up for the honor, President Trump what better evidence of how a wrestling with what power means and where it resides. And just because I'd like to end on something hopeful. I was just read from a section twists in the book called taking back. Our narratives. I regularly teach storytelling to high school students after a few weeks of brainstorming and practicing. They each performance story from their lives in front of their classmates and friends it's instructive to see teenagers. Navigate balancing the truth of their stories with the awareness of how that truth might be received by their peers, one young woman that I worked with wanted to tell a story of self acceptance recognizing that she was more introverted than some of her friends and making peace with that realization, an important part of her story was relating the experience of losing a friend of hers to suicide a friend who had gone to the same school. She was attending during dress rehearsal. She hesitated midway through a story. Right. When she began to describe her close relationship with the French she had lost. I thought at first it was too emotional for her and reminded her that she only needed needed to tell the parts of the story that she felt comfortable sharing. She out her head and quietly came over to talk to me. I'm afraid they won't believe me. She said brows knitted and concern. What won't they believe? I asked that. That's what he was like. But that's what our relationship was like, she was afraid. In other words, that her narrative would not be accepted because it wouldn't be recognizable to anyone else. I told her that this was precisely the beauty of her perspective. There is no objective version. Indeed. The only reason her story existed is because it was rooted in her subjectivity and experience. This perspective was a gift a thread that added to the memories that other people had of that same friend created a stronger tapestry a true, Representative likeness of who was there's a magic to focusing less on responding to expectations. It breaks the spell, which is perhaps simply the myth that we should all fall into one or two particular categories that our lives and stories must fit a mold in order to be eligible to others. But it's the specificity of our identities and experiences that command that years hurts of each other. Human beings are incredible bullshit detectors and listening to someone tried to tell a story. The truth. That is not their own strikes us on a gut level. Watching that young woman. Take the stage until her story was an experience that drove home. How how powerful we are. When we fully inhabit are stories and ourselves she was soft spoken at the microphone, which only motivated everyone in the audience to lean in their bodies listing towards her apart. From her voice, the silence in the room was absolute we were all under the spell watching her claim the role of protagonist in her own story. Like that young woman hesitating to tell her story, we learned early on to adapt our narratives based on the people in the room how much of myself can I share at what point will what I share become ammunition used against me. So we soften our particularities. And as we do we give something up watching that young woman perform I was reminded of the way Baldwin struggled on the page and in real life with this question of how to push past expectations to reclaim yourself and story in a nine hundred sixty one interview Baldwin tells studs terkel, all you are ever told in this country about being black is that it is a terrible terrible thing to be now in order to. Survive. This you have to really dig down into yourself and recreate yourself really, according to know image which yet exists in America, you have to impose in fact, this may sound very strange. You have to decide who you are and force the world to deal with you not with its idea of you part of what I've always loved about Baldwin is his ongoing commitment to complicating the conversation about the quote race debate. There are times where listening to recordings of him. Debating folks, I've wondered at the way he seems to meander so far beyond the terms of the question at hand yet. Keep you utterly transfixed in his nineteen sixty five debate with Buckley Baldwin is asked is the American is the American dream at the expense of the American negro Baldwin opens by reframing, the terms referring to the question as quote hideously loaded, and that one's reaction to that question has to depend on where you find yourself in the world, what your sense of reality is he then pivot saying I have to speak as one of the people who have been.

James Baldwin Clarence Thomas Senator Jeff Sessions Alabama US attorney Sotomayor Whiteman Joan Crawford general agitatedly North Carolina Anita hill Gloria Steinem Cuba Buckley Baldwin William Faulkner Brown America Florida vertigo Trump