20 Episode results for "Bruce Weber"

Barstool Rundown - February 26, 2019

Barstool Rundown

24:03 min | 2 years ago

Barstool Rundown - February 26, 2019

"All right the rundown Tuesday. February got this. You have this date. Dave Dee Dee de twenty. This close six. That's council. That's gimme race fused. Great filters out ninety percent of high energy blue light eliminates glare coming off. All the screens. Don't don't wanna live without tire dry eyes blurry vision headaches. We're looking great this. Great glasses are available. Both prescription non prescription free shipping. Free returns, go to feel this gray glasses dot com slash rundown. Big you're wearing them. Great mice feel so arrested. Right. That's great. That is great great scrape broke. They're gonna give you broke her. Oh, you already forgotten most memorable gift? Shoe? Lebron is leading every story rightfully so I guess every day now so nother bad loss for the Lakers. Lebron lots of video of him playing zero defense like just not even trying basically then after the well. Yeah. We good. Then after the game. He basically said if playing the Laker like you can't be distracted playing for Lakers off the court issues bother you pick the wrong franchise at this point of view still allow distractions to affect the way you play. Then this is this is the wrong franchise. You're part of the uses come and be like this. Now, I can't do this. Seriously. You're distracted by playoff pushes and all the stuff of his neck. Coming to job. We do our job at high level. You know, that's not it's not it's not a distraction. That's like, that's what you want. You want every game. You want to feel like fighting for some? I mean, we have what? Twenty three. Twenty three games. Then posted Instagram congratulate himself, no words, just the most like cysts. He also story came out during the game. Remember he took a game off, and they said lake who said load management video came out. He was actually making a rapid yo getting plaster during y. Come over here. Don't buy nobody that people in the world think it'd be shocking to the people to know how much input you head on. You've been on for sixteen tracks, right? The sixteen tracks we wanna do fourteen. But is there a problem with a week or two weeks after our Android fourteen tracks that we added deluxe album? That's hard. I think it'd be a conversation out. Oh. More, but he couldn't fit it into. Thank y'all taken on his ride with me. You know, what to more for y'all? Sound like she should be on that track. Either. You do it or not jeez. That's sounds like somebody comes out. Shor short of Detroit based on in right out. Though Than Tun of substance. Okay. That's what you do. Not have to worry about his up. Yep. And it was the night before to chains. So. I don't know what more you can say about everything I've ever said vindicated in his finally one you took me a long time. But he's embarrassed Lakers. He's embarrassed the franchise magic fall together bringing this worst human who ever lived, dude. He doesn't care did not care did not go to LA from basketball. Well. That's what he was surprised by movies and TV taking president surprised by him. Then say right now, I will slightly defend that quote last night. If you saw the full context, a reporter directly asked him what about distraction, so you was answering that. Bush. Twenty five games ago, basically, a distraction and all this effect way. And you see you this place. But everything else like his body language on the court losing to Memphis losing to New Orleans when you're when you're fighting for playoff spa. Try no. You're gonna mail it in you can't like have those those long videos of him to standing around. At least fake it a little bit. He's not trying and he and he tried to get the whole team traded. Then he calls them out every night that was that you know, what they had to get. Yeah. They should have done whatever it took. Because at that point. He burned every bridge with his teammates. And it's also clear that LeBron like went to LA VM like all right? Someone else's coming with me. Right. And it just happen. Happen. I on the act today. Dave I challenged LeBron fans to call in and they're beaten bunch. They were say I'm beaten against them. I don't like he should've just stayed in in Cleveland. Because even as he started dwindle and didn't win in his hometown. Right. They still would love him. No matter. What can't now move to another city? Is supposed to be bringing a crown jewel franchise back to prompt. He has no interest in playing basketball should retire for the sake of the sport sake of America. It is tough to watch a legacies washed down the drain quickly. This is he said he'd he's been a Little Brown fan since the Saint Mary's Saint Vincent day send he's often not off. He's just disappointed. He said, he's not mad. He's disappointed. If you really paid attention. You'd know what this guy's character was I've been saying forever. It's obvious his talent overcame shortcomings. But now, you know, he should have just retired at beat the warriors. All time going what why why why why this point career? He is breaking new record every. Graham, saying no words here. I think he might still win one more when I really yeah. Because he'll get he'll the team. Anthony Davis comes and he gets another piece. I think he could probably wouldn't more when I look at it next to you. It has a lot of things Kevin ran has to leave the west, right? And the super teams. When I think when people close the book on his current, and now would they think about this is what I will think about like when I think LeBron James, I'll think to chains. Leaguers Lakers, Bockel, not caring about basketball, disgracing, the sport. How happy do you think? Kobe's Harry, happy. I mean, obviously, we'd never come out and say, I don't care about basketball. But if he didn't say. You also said in care about. Yeah, you're right. That quote, if he doesn't care about winning more. It's proved that he said in one quota care about winning. He's proved everything LA. Out in LA playing ball not being a hypocrite. Would you be no less critical? Be less critic. Yeah. I actually don't get me wrong with that. Can then be not play defense and yell at everyone. So I believe this was an Africa. This is going on. I believe we got resurrection going on. So it's a funeral big funeral and some priests or past or something religious man talks to the guy in the casket who resurrects. Gunman. Is beautiful great to see electrical. Unbelievably out was there. Now sued the funeral the funeral home. Now suing though, saying that they got tricked. They want the money back for the funeral. No. I think it's reputation. Yeah. It's like we marrying do this huge feel with somebody basically. They're calling bull shit. They're saying oh wasn't dead. Well that that's not was clearly he was coughing dead. Could be. To like he was after us eating, and it was clear like that's a guy who is dead twenty minutes ago, his mouth his work yet. I mean, you see his face when he was resurrected that's the face of a resurrection. You guys are on the resurrection. The other side. Are you saying he was not dead? I like more evidence. If I was the funeral company. I would I would investigate a little business going to be wrong here. How could you prove it? I rest my kids. Take a team of lawyers and investigators this is brought to you by movement watches NBA T dot com slash rundown. Fifteen percent off free shipping and returns watches us. Nice. Go to four hundred five hundred bucks department stores moving watches start at just ninety five bucks. Step up your watch game. Join the movement today, Kansas Kansas state last night. Dan, you're on the right side of this. As in the wrong side is embedded. But funny videos coming out first of all these teams hate each other. Like, a blood rated how much these seems don't like each other some funny clips the like box score guy has been fined or suspended from Taunton. Kansas state player the tube rose, we're going in the white canisters. Guys those. I don't I I I did, you know when you see something on on new TV like, I don't know fifty call here, you just do a caption that has nothing to do with it. So it's like this crowd is electric. So. So the guy's not gonna all time moment back in the day. When I did the hotdog you've been savage. Kids. Fun of kid with white terminal. You've got to always like, yeah. You have. Send people off the set. Let them. Hey, look. I'm just talking about how electric well dog. No bunt dog. Hut dog. Savage way to eat that hot dog, and he has serious issue. You did not go. Well, you got you got. I talked to the parents I I was in the corner of fight. You're take shots. I couldn't even cover up getting liberated this. So funny that like out of like, you know, like when the Daily Beast rights fucking kit piece, basically doing Lincoln, encyclopedia Volver hip pieces. They don't have the savage savage. There's no comeback for either. Didn't know you didn't know your heart's in the right place. Those teams each other and Bruce, Bruce Weber has a certain oh, also left. Let's always like we're in Kansas. We're in Kansas. 'cause I mean, that's not purple. I didn't get I. Yeah. I don't know. But Bruce, Weber has a certain look, you know, when you when you are watching a game in a guy like a crowd's going crazy, and there's a big run. And you just have this is coach Bruce has his look like he is so lost. And he could coach for a million years. Never win this game. That's the look like the least amount of confidence is instilled in you. If you bet on Kansas state last when everything is going wrong, not that. But that is what villanovans been supposed to do. Now Villanova pro put Kansas is it's it's just fucking fog Allen. They don't lose their I guess loss last two games on the road. So right like the Kansas just is not lose kiss. It hasn't been there since two thousand since crazy. That's so fucking longer. Bill. This guy is rare coin guy, he's something. So he sold thirty three thousand dollars worth of rare coins from a coin shop, and they went to coin star. And he put the coins in the coins about twenty nine bucks thirty cents. Laughing headline. He didn't know there was a rare coin. From any cash like four thousand of them. He got four thousand dollars from selling some of the rare coins. He no then the rest at this. And then you wanted to six pack beer. Yeah. But he knew where. What he put? I thought he I thought the whole thing was that. He didn't know what he he's stolen from residential dollar that he was putting in there that he got one dollar for probably actually like ninety seven cents because they take some off the top was a thousand dollars per. Wow. I thought it was. Quin stars. Awesome house coin server union cash and you get a bully. Sixty five bucks. Number the other coins dot Steve. Moments coin star where you're like, I need all the money. Oh. Like just put it all together everywhere never do. And you get like an extra prize. If you guess it. That's all I sold cans for. We used to try to freshman year. Every now. David. This is low as I've seen you in a funk. Look at a funk. I feel you could you could still pay your gambling fuck. No fucking angst the bachelor, but new different. I think. Out of moves. Move out. I am I've never been outright. That's how. I've never know what you need is a book to die. That's the most important moment from the rundown that got deleted. We were a few topics in and Dave drop the bomb that is book. He's dead you died and people think that's a joke. It's. Elliot. Oh, my buddy called me says, I have huge news. I wasn't a bring up on the run yet. Huge news that we brought it up. He called me says, I have huge news. About a death. No, you can right. News. I mean to be out of moves. 'cause like one move is just pay it off out of moves. I have no move. Google portland. Maybe you should just start going around. And we'll chair gotta move. I have no move. I mean, I don't move with lack of severe lack of move. I just keep thinking of him as like. Like. Got no moves. He finally got him. Pete Weber anniversary. Strike climate strike that claim it. Thank you. Seven years. One most electric who seven I thought this was way your brother replied, which was. He was like that house. It's not like twenty years. I thought it was gonna be twenty two. I am stunned. We shore. We're much older than seven. That's also. But that's also bullying thing you watch bowling. And it you just go back tonight these seven shot raising. I still think that's wrong. I actually think that's wrong too. But I don't it's not bowling is that happened during the blackout Torridge away. You don't know who you are. I am. On the all time p p p what's. Visit PVA W P D V. I thought oh, I don't know. What's his mental is something? He just a PDF something the legend. He's a legend. Have you ever being sure that she just do that? No w Peter. Yeah. Yeah. W we should just throwback. Clint seems like somebody who come at frequent like you don't have a ton van protect his integrity. And I p. Yeah, there's yeah. He's got a he's got a Google alert. We gotta get whatever. Merchants. Contact with them. No. But that would be I assume also. Yeah. You would think although maybe not easy to get some New York City. You should go to his somewhere to go. Franken. I was supposed to go to the main bowling one time. Oh, yeah. I got invited to the the best bowling thing is when like the women's bowling college like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. It's not the MAC. No, some car is like just whack. Yeah. Alabama little raw. Looks like they literally rented two lanes regular bowling alley for and then it has a camera. The best is the like whenever bowler has like knee brace. Like Jesus just gutting it out hawn's of I always get in trouble. I don't know. Now, the metoo I saw me jokes. But they just slap each other. Yeah. On still usually there's like a mail coach who gets in on what's going on either. That's it. It was a slow day thing post, you we gotta get you out of your phone. It's I'm on funked. I mean, what do you do down so much -ly doing thirty straight? The laugh is not a laugh because it's like I need to probably win thirty two St. myself villanovans killing me he chip away. No, that's. I have no moved. I don't know. How may we only weighs coming back? If he goes over five on his picks that he said out loud tonight. Does your bookie like ever call you like what are we going to do here? Because moves guy had that conversation. He knows them out. What you're talented. Delicate as Dan knows. Yes. You can't say. That's like because you know. So here's how it works say you're gonna move them. What the point of him? How he's thank you got a lot of you can't because because essentially how it works is. If you are like, hey, I'm out of all my moves. He's great pay me all the money. Correct guy. You're talking cracking the case this down. So that I can keep playing and keep losing lose that way. Correct. You need to you need to threaten to lose. He's going to lose you even the fact that you're joking around about this makes me feel it here. No. Listen, Kevin I've notch. It's just very depressing. Who's like, you know, not rough you up, but intimidate, you know, well, I had an old guy who I had for decades one who passed yet. He didn't Tim Nate he'd go from like, hey, like one get during like on a fucking murder razor blade here. They don't want that it won't problem. But what you're out of move. I can I say something that's out of moves. It's not mean. But I was late last night. I was walking Stella. And I just started laughing to myself about you turning to me at the fan sports book in late September. And you said to me I'm having a spectacular football season. As I did last night on a casual watched green spot or Breen book book. I don't watch movies during the week. When I I'm going to start being you can tell to stop in unplugged in sports. Here's what are you gonna do much Venice? Oh my God. I don't know. It's a problem. That is a problem. You can't do because that's the most electric time of the year. Yeah. For this. We over handle, which is the your didn't. You know, this is gonna add another hundred grand. Here's here's how well I know Dave when he went like Saturday or Sunday. If that's not a move. That's I'm willing to. That's good moves. Hand moves when Dave goes silent or a Saturday or Sunday on Twitter for new. Dark dark when he's no that's what he's so when he's in such a bad place that he can't even like joke about the losses. Correct. Right. Because like if you're tweeting about oh my God. I can't believe I lost his first half. You still got many not good? If. Couch to make a video right, right? If you're not making content out of moves. This is not good. Not good. We can you can you put a t shirt on sale. Are you to move that move? I'm I don't have that move anymore. Was. There were many move many moves actually explain it's a Francis. When the Super Bowl moved for Francis was saying he said to me, I guess you said quote, like if I lose if I win every bet for the rest of my life. I'll I'll just break even right? And he's like how's that possible? And I was like, well he's gonna live to be like eighty so my heart and like the heartedly seventy five. I explained to them. Maybe that's the move. You just die. I explained to them. He's like, well, how the hell did he used to pay like France, it used to be a mom and pop shop? We we had moves. There were moves through move. Go to watch part. We we lost a big move guy in the bubbly gang. He always he he had moves that. Even know we're going on moves everywhere moves all. Yeah. He would own move. You'd see it in his eyes. He'd come up. And you'd be like here comes a move. What what if what did he something for him to move for you right now? Could that be the end of this story the end of drama reconciliation if you had a move. He need a pretty straight and have wrong throwing think you don't have moves. He's got wrong. I don't even know if I trust his moves. No. Literally be like Dave's Twitter handle would turn to like stool, Leesa mattress. You gotta move probably gang running away from the move master all time. Yeah. Hey, I got this thing. He's got a fun. Moves gotta move for you. It's tough.

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Peter Hurley  U.S. Sailing Team and 10,000 Headshots

B&H Photography Podcast

59:27 min | 4 months ago

Peter Hurley U.S. Sailing Team and 10,000 Headshots

"You're listening to the H. Photography podcast for over forty years. Being H has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favorite gear news and reviews visit us be an H. dot com or download the beach apt to your iphone or android device. Now, here's your host Alan White's. Greetings and welcome to the H. Photography podcast Peter. Hurley is one of the premium headshot portrait doger's in New York City. Some might say on the planet he's best known for the genuine expressions he captured in his executive portraits and actor headshots. His work is very good and consistently. So if there's some interesting twists and turns early in life as a member of the US Olympic sailing team and as a model and laid a friend of photographer Bruce Weber he began his career shooting the ought commercial in poetry jobs he honed his. Craft and before long he's being profiled on a camera blog, he's invited to make a television appearance and a few viral youtube videos and it's you know boom. He's the head shot King. In addition to creating a catalog of incredible photos. He's become an author, Ted talk and a successful businessman in his own right peters, the founder of the headshots crew, which is now the world's largest network of headshots specialists with over fifteen thousand members worldwide and all that from a kid mantle loking New Jersey not bad welcome to the show Peter. Of the Allan thank you for having me. Great here. Well, we we're going to be talking with Peter about the headshot. True but we also WanNa talk about his sailing years and about a wonderful in Debbie's been up in part of a that is photograph ten thousand headshots free of charge for folks unemployed during the covid quarantine. Thank you for joining us. Tell us about this a two thousand Olympic trials. This is something that a lot of people probably do not know about your neck and neck with friend and. finished. Fourth a good enough to make the team but you didn't go. I had I had what happened was I had trained for the ninety six Olympics and failed so came to New York and I became this model actor bartender dude and I kind of got sick of that and in Nineteen Ninety nine of another mentor reminds said, what are you doing? Why weren't you going for the Olympics and I was like I just looked at it was like I don't know. How long have you been into sale because you? You don't just wake up anger I'm going to be an Olympic sailor I mean this. This is something you had to be doing for a while I would imagine. Yea I grew up in man looking in the Summers and my dad had trained for the Olympics and was a North American champion and he okay it's in your blood or. In the boat real early like I don our must been six or seven or something like that. Great. So what happened in two thousand and I remember hearing something that you just okay. You decided after that input from your your friend and colleague to to go for it right I mean. Yeah. I was I I just shifted my entire life on one decision I threw my boat in a truck and ship it across the country to San Francisco and I started training and I had. A year till the Olympic trials and you know obviously the goal was to get to the Olympics and represent the US and do really try and win a gold medal and everybody said you're crazy in a year you can't do then and I think I was peeking hadn't peaked at the Olympic trials I was beginning to Pika did really well at the world championships in. Cancun right before the Olympic trials and then I was winning the Olympic trials after the first day and I thought Oh my gosh this this could become a reality and then I freaked out and had a couple of bad days and then I came back strong in the end but five guys make the US team at least back. Then that's the way they did it and I Missed it in the last race of the Olympic trials in ninety six. So my goal one of my goals in life was to be a member of the United States sailing team and and It came down to the last race in the Olympic trials in two thousand and I ended up just missing third and only the first guy goes. So I went to Sydney and trained for a month which was an amazing experience. I love the travel that I did with the sailing and everything but you know I, kind of call it. now, I've been reflecting on it and I call myself a hundred and eighty degree loser because I lost the Olympic trials. Got Booted and my girlfriend at the time was going to Europe tomorrow and I was like I'll go with you and I just went with her, and then I ended up in Madrid and I had modeled there previously and this guy's like. To buy a camera while you're here. So I was like, okay and I got my first professional camera in Madrid and that's how it all started. I came back to the United States he taught me how to use a darkroom and I came back to the United States walked right into an ancient bought my first darkroom and set it up my mom's basement and. Fada roll well. Let me jump back a little bit to the Olympic trials when you say you know you failed or you didn't do quite so well, how is it time is is, is that the determinant of who wins and who you know in in sailing? I don't know much it, but is it is it straight up on the way in the speed? The way that it works in the Ice Sail Dinghy. Sailing in the Olympics, is all small boats. So we go out for the day sale a couple of races and come in. So it's usually two two usually two races I think at the at the Olympic level and I remember going out doing two races and come back in. So the first day I got a I and a fourth so I was. Winning the regatta and then and then you know after and you had to qualify just to get into that regatta. So it wasn't it wasn't easy as well But yeah, you do a series of races between boys. you start at a everybody starts on the same starting line and you just try and beat your competitors and you go round A. trapezoid course actually is what they're doing now and races last about they're trying to shoot for forty five minutes something like that is usually about the the the timeframe and and the boat that I sailed was called the laser. It's a single boats which just me on it and a lot of it was technique and you know, and I just I Feel badly for the for the you know the the athletes that missed the Olympics this summer because now it's a year. Later in the way I was trying to speak for my Olympic trials in the Olympic Games in two thousand I know what they go through and it's it's like you know I, I'm a big procrastinator to tell you the truth but You don't procreate like it's a deadline that just does not get skipped and to get get it skipped this year was huge for me back. Then it was like that was the one thing that kept my life in order to. That date is not moving and I have to be ready and I think in life a lot of a lot of I think back to that of the things I'm procrastinating on I'm like Oh my gosh with the Olympics. There was none of that. So I took a lot of the stuff that I did while training. With me into starting my career I guess, and and one of the most interesting things I think about the Olympic trials that second time for me was that I was in a in a seminar when I made this decision, my mentors, his name's Bob proctor and he was doing a seminar and he said he said, are you going for the Olympics in and it was a two day seminar and I was like I didn't even thought about I went back to. I went back home that night and I couldn't sleep and then I went back in the next day and I said I'm GonNa go for it and he had milk Campbell onstage stage with them milt won the the decathlon fifty, six and and he said I'm going to coach shoe. So I was immediately getting coached by the guy who won the gold medal in the decathlon in Nineteen fifty-six and it was a really interesting experience and I wish I had Melts gone now in my experience with him was just phenomenal to be able to hang out with him in and pick his brain and have him coach me. He had me doing some really interesting stuff mentally was incredible and what do you attribute you know? Some might be luck but you know these kind of moments seemed to have happened to you a few times anywhere where you you know your life stumbled into the right person who who gave you direction is at I mean do you consider yourself open for these things because a lot of people will shut that down you know they fears getting away or other things or is it just Is it just look? That's very interesting I found that. Well, there's a saying that luck is when opportunity you preparedness meets opportunity or something like that you know I feel like I feel like. I I'm one of these guys that just doesn't have a plan I never had a plan I never i. don't never knew what I wanted to do in life and I just kind of roll with it, and then something happens in front of me and I'm like, oh, go that way. It's like like I'm getting thrown these bones and I'm like pick that one up and these things happen and and I like to say that I think an everybody can probably think this in life like the big moves in life in the big decisions and the big things happen all revolve around a human being interaction and these people that changed my life over the course of the of. The years it creates this like left hand turn you're going straight and then all of a sudden you bump into a human being and that person for some reason, you know changes your life completely and You know that I think that was the biggest decision that I made in my life up to that point and actually in my entire life up till now was decision jumped ship on what I was doing and go train for the Olympics can I'm really proud of being a member of the US sailing team that would never happen and I don't believe if I hadn't done that I would've I might not even picked up a camera man. But also those kind of decisions breed kind of confidence or at least a kind of I don't know how to say it but. Many conferences, the word, but you didn't you. Okay. Well, this one worked out even if I wasn't planning it and then the next time comes around you have that little in your backpack. You say, all right. Well, I did at that time if they can do it again, you know. Or you give yourself a little push in need. Lose. Dive I. I'm not a skip go person I just go I've always been that way and I think that I don't know if I I don't know how much fear I felt and I certainly wasn't confident. You know going back to train for the Olympics are not doing it for four years but I had a a sense. I. Love Sailing and I love and I knew I had a a gift. And Other. It was an experience that was like unbelievable. I mean who gets rolled ceiling against the best guys in the world I still do it I do an annual. Keeps me in shape and it gives me goals and I'm I'm attempting to be a world champion. Now I'm I`Ma. In now, I do it in my age class I'M SEC I've been second in the world twice since I turned forty filming this group forty, five to fifty, five year olds and the first year I got in after taking a big hiatus. I got second in the world and I was like okay I'm GonNa win this thing and then a couple years later it was like a Downhill slide and then I got second again I almost one and then and then this year it was in Australia and I was down there when the whole Kobe hit and I was like, oh my gosh and they cancelled it like the day after I shared throws a big mess and I had workshops down there and everything set up and and my wife's like, why are you even going? Yeah love. It keeps me in shape. It's just the boat is just it's just an amazing sport. I can compete at a at a very high level and I still do sale against the Olympians I get my butt kicked, but I was in. Japan last year I qualified for the world championships against all the guys that are trained for the Olympics and I went and you know I took it as a family trip from. To Japan my kids loved it and and I competed against the best in the world at at age fifty. So it's pretty cool. Not. Growing up the mantle loking. Do you remember when that Barnacle? Bay would actually freeze back in the day? Do you remember that? I I was not down there in the winters very often on oh. Okay. Very often. So my friends ice boat on Tom's reverence that when it does freeze but. Don't. Walked on it frozen. Okay. Because the the they had the ice but even better than that and they haven't done this for walk as it hasn't Betas and freezes much this a little bit of a sidestep. It's kind of interesting stories that during the winter they have competitions out there between cadillacs Lincoln continentals they have races out there and yeah. Yeah. Yeah they used to do this and. They call the police and the police would say there's no law against driving cars on Barnevik Bay and they call the coastguard and they would say there's no laws about driving a car and Bonnie. Bother them, and if the Bond Market Bay there are about a half dozen. Lincoln's and caddies sitting down here that everyone's out just went through. Tripoli. Yeah. You could. You could check that out yeah, they are. Frozen for for a longest time. But if you go back about twenty thirty years ago the this is what they were doing out there and nobody bothered them. Hurry changed completely. So at the current lots than it than it was thirty years ago that's the one thing I noticed, and then you know we used to have a lot of seaweed patch that we have to sail around. Last now because of the current is running really swiftly so for it to freeze would be a little bit more difficult I guess that that might be part of it. I really don't know but that's a really interesting. Nominate question. It just got to me a and again you've driven person and it's pretty obvious and you have a lot of enthusiasm behind whatever you're doing. Do you see any kind of connections between sailing and photography and I always say I know that you know writing and photography I I could put together all and music and photography I could pick up things what about sailing Is You mean is there any connection between the two? I. I would have never thought about it 'til 'til you just hit me with that but I thought about about thirty seconds before I asked you. So we're all winging it. Now this is great. You're we'd go. Visual You know obviously like when I get on the race course. I've got a buoy usually the first one is about a mile away. So you're like you've got to be really visual on your awareness around the course. I'm looking all over the place. You're also positioning between boats and when you start your your kind of. Blinded by these sales and trying to get as cleared in the nose of your boat as close to the starting line as possible if you go over it, then you get disqualified and you have to go back and restart. So nobody wants to do that. So there's leading the wind while all this is going on at the same time. It's like, I say it's like playing chess while the boards moving around and. The great fairy t gic it's very There's a lot of mental activity. The cognitive low while you're sailing is huge and I've found that the only thing that I've. That I've discovered about myself I don't know if I had this when I was younger because I never really was that focused on anything when I was younger. But when I picked up a camera and then when I started speaking I started teaching and I started I started working I was working with the psychologist and she goes you're I was we were trying we were we did our tax talk together and stuff so we were working on and she's Like you're like a lighthouse when the beams on me I'm good. But then your brain just goes somewhere and I got wait until it comes back around for you to be back on this topic again. So I'm very like you know she's like you're like Adhd you're all over the place and I never have I never had that or knew about that when I was younger anything and what I found was there's only two things that really change it for. Me and it's when I looked through the viewfinder of a camera My I'm like hyperfocused everything like everything's there. Everything is just you know when you put a human in there, I'm seeing the clothes I'm seeing the expression I'm seeing the face emceeing the posture of seeing the the composition everything's like boom right my brain and I see a lot of things that I know other people aren't aren't even catching. It's therefore you just answered my question you realize. You just answer my question to see the answer is, yes there is a connection between the two because again when you're starting race, you're watching that's in the distance you're watching everyone going around your measuring the wind and feeling the current of the tides. Okay. And you just told me the same thing when you looking through that camera, you're zeroing in on your subject and you're aware of everything else going on around you. So yeah, there is a connection I guess. That's it. That's it. I think you just have to love something and then it just changes everything I've like this totem pole of things that matter to me and my brain is on top is the most important. So the minute that I goes through the viewfinders then went on a starting line there's nothing that's going to enter my brain. You know that's not focused on that race and by the way I think this is true of a lot of different things. No matter what you're into this is in anything that you have a passion for. You could be this could go for birding this go for painting. This can go for any number of things roller skating if that's what you're to. But if you have a passion for something and when you're doing it, you just go away you zone out you go into another place in it becomes every at the center of the universe and I that's. What it's about. Absolutely. And have you ever combined the to? Bring a camera on the boat. You take any sailing photos when you're out there or to focus all my Gosh I. So when I got my camera I I was I'm GonNa Start I. Mean it was all film I. Guess I the first pictures of sailboats that I remember I shot with a Rowley that I an old Rowley and I don't I think it was on a motorboat watching but then. When people would ask me to sail it would be like, okay. I'll go out with you on a boat, but I've gotta bring my camera with me. So I had this I remember we were doing block island race week I got invited to be the tactician I just come off the Olympic trials and I was tactician on this on this boat and I'd never done a big boat race really and I never been tactician but I was like I'll do it if I could bring my camera and then during the start I was like running around taking pictures I. I don't even know I don't think I got anything good or anything, but we ended up winning the regatta to so. And my friend, who was the the skipper who invited me on the boat the win the winning boat got one a rolex. So every time I see him like he's a coach now. So anytime he's out and I'm out at a regard he's gotTa. told me out. He's gotTa take my lunch. She's gotta take my water bottles. He's like I was like, otherwise you them that thing on your wrist. That's great. That's great. And do you enjoy sailing photography and sailing mean is did d get the same thrill that you might when you're working, you know poetry to you. You know it's funny because I've a couple of friends that are that are. Sailing photographer and they shoot sailing all the time and one of them's on a vendor while he's another explorer of light. Cannon on an I it's the funniest story is just crazy to me. So I'm minding my own business training for the Olympics in Nineteen, ninety five and and just started a little bit of modeling, but it meant the Miami Sailing Centering Coconut Grove we trained out of its the US sailing center there and I don't know where I'm I. Think I met on a I think I met him there. I might have met him. We did a job for sunfish laser. We did the advertising. So I got hired as a as a model to do the ads for the for the new boats out this book called an escape and we went to this we went to kept TV and I, think it was an honor was the photographer. So I spent like three days working with him, which was just amazing. So then I went back to Miami. And I'm in the parking lot and he's he comes up to me and he goes He goes look I've got this boat that I got to take some pictures of mind going out and and driving, and I was like sure let's go. So I get in this thing, it was called it was viper and it had just been a new boat. Now it's a really it's been a successful class in their classes all over the world with and I'm driving and he's taking pictures and ends up on the cover of sailing world magazine I, flip it over like it was a mess but it was fine. So I I pick up a years later. This is years later I pick up. This was in nineteen, ninety, five in in two thousand, I pick up a camera and I move to in two thousand one I moved to the west side highway and I get an apartment in a high-rise out there with the southern facing window because that's what I wanted to shoot I wanted to shoot naturally I didn't really know lighting it on as I just WANNA use a window I'll just do that, and that's how I started my career but I'm overlooking the Javits Center. So every year photo plus expos going on I go. Down there and on his speaker and I, was like Oh. My Gosh, this is co honest speaking I'm GonNa. Go see him speak. So to speak and you know he's got all these accolades and stuff and then, and then I don't know how it happened but I ended up like never thought in two thousand that I would ever speak at that thing or my career would ever go the direction it went but I ended up every time I get on get on stage there. It's like, wow, I was I remember coming here and sitting in the audience and and you know doing that and then I became an explorer of light and on is like this is crazy used to be a model for me. Now you're an expert too. So we are talking about meshing the sailing like we're trying to figure out how to do something with cannon were on and I are going to you know revisit our roots of our relationship together and figure something out because he's just a great guy and he's so talented. So I never I only let the world's collide like what we said earlier when like a bones during my way I got. Lucky I was doing this thing called the headshot crew. So I have the headshot crews, my coaching platform, and it's a referral engine for trump photographer coach, my tires there. So every every it's now been a biannual thing where we do something with the group as so the first thing we ever did is that we took a cruise from here in New York City to to Bermuda, and I had the we it was a blast. We had such a great time, but we get Muda and my friend Andrew Campbell's on the Oracle team. And he's there you know training for the America's Cup and I said to him I just cinema email or somebody said, hey, I'm in Bermuda can come check out what you guys are doing said Yeah. Come on over. So I, go over there and I meet the head of the their media and he's like, Hey, we need some pictures I said well I get Gamer and. He goes, we'll bring it oversight. Go back they give me a tour go back I, get the camera and we figured out this. I do head shots at the whole team, and then I take Jimmy Spithill and we take them to abandon like building and we shoot this. Really we'd throw water on them shoot a really cool picture. It became the cover of magazines and stuff and Jimmy's like that's my favorite picture ever taken me. So my worlds collided like that and since then I got to do some really cool stuff because of that experience in that relationship with with Oracle. So that was just amazing. That's great. Aunt's wonderful when these things do come together I mean. especially. When you can look back at it over the years and see the paths that you took even didn't realize you're taking a path you know. What about Bruce Weber? You WanNa talk about that a little bit I. Mean I sounded like from what I understand you were sailing and and again maybe maybe dumb luck may be just right place right time but. To be a model for major campaign a new great photographer, right? Crazy. Another one you know what I look at that time in my life when I was. I look at it back on it. So fondly when I was doing the Olympic thing and even when I was running around the streets and you're trying to get some modeling here. Is like those short snippets in life where like so much happens I was like what's going on now like why was it some crazy then? It but yeah, I was. So the story goes and it's truly amazing my neighbor and I had ended up. In my neighbor man looking at and we sailed against each other all the time and and there was an Atlantic coast championship in looking not summer and I sailed up to like this dot his dock and he had his his sister-in-law there and she's like he's like you gotta come over and meet her I was like, okay. So I- SALEN and I go over to the house and she's like Hey. How are you? What are your training for the Olympics? That's amazing and she's like you know have you ever been photographed and I was like no, she goes I got a friend who's a tire for and she worked for Donna. Karen. So she's like she gets some sponsorship. Why don't we put a sponsorship package together on, get it to the people at wiles like okay. So she took some pictures and. Get you sponsorship to continue the sailing's at the idea to. The. Campaign I got a bunch of clothes. They gave me some equipment I mean it was just I was sailing with dkny myself which was really coal. But what happened out of that was that she knew. A friend who was model who heard overheard that Polo was looking for real sailors for their ad campaign for the summer of ninety six and I had to have a meeting. So she's like lucky. You've gotTA come to new. York and you gotTa meet. You gotTA. Go over to Ralph Lauren and meet this designer. So I went over there and I met him. And he's like, okay cool. Let's Let me send you over to the AD agency. So then I go over the AD agency meet them and I'm thinking that's it. So they and I go on my Merry Way and I'm driving with my boat on top of my van like down to. Jump going back to the US Senate. I. Think I was our trials weren't Savanna. So's driving in Savannah and I get a call and they're like, okay we want you to be in Miami This Day Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and and I remember and I can't. I'm like kicking myself to this day I was like how much you pay me and I I think they said like five hundred bucks or something or something like two, hundred and fifty but I don't know it was very cheap and I was like look I'm training for the Olympics I can't do it and I hung up and and I and I went I didn't know. I I didn't know the severity of that decision, but anyway, a like couple of days later an. Calls me and says, okay, we've got your plane ticket and everything and I was like what? And they're like, well, we you're going to Miami for this photo shoot and I was like I said I wouldn't do it and she said Oh no, and I think they said, well, we were GONNA pay three thousand dollars I was like, okay I'll do it for them something like that. And get on the plane, and then they say, you know Bruce Weber was shooting at which you know me being kid from Jersey was a sailor like I didn't know anything about the fashion industry I didn't know anything about tired. So I didn't I ended up doing the campaign the pictures go all over the world and then the New York Times does A. Story on us for the style section about me the Olympics dkny Ralph Lauren. Bruce. Everything and it was unbelievable and the experience was unbelievable but more importantly You know this modeling things tough. I ended up my picture for Paulo was all over the place and I walk into agents that Bruce had had made some appointments for me down we get an agencies and. I walk in the door and they're like, no, you're not good looking enough. It's not workout. This isn't this isn't for you and I was like, oh my gosh site called percents like they don't want they don't want me to do it and he's like all right I'll send you somewhere else. So he's this is after the first failure, the Olympic trials so he Sends me this other guy at next models and he's like, okay we'll give you shot go over to Barcelona and model for a little bit and come back. So go over to Barcelona, do some modeling do some in Madrid come back to New York and they're like Nah it's not gonNa work out and I was like oh my gosh so it started this whole Let me get settled in New York run around agency after agency after agency and it was uphill. Climb. And I put the sound behind me for that for till again till the story resumes in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine. A. Lot of people don't appreciate the amount of discouragement. A lot of creatives get an and again, you're talking about as a model going out there trying to get modeling work people going out there as photographers trying to get assignments hit the same thing and I think it's it's it's become increasingly more. So over the years because more and more people are getting into lot more the creative endeavors and. If you cannot handle that L- element of a rejection and disappointment, you can't survive in any these fields you have to be able to suck it up and go. Okay. Let's try this again repeatedly and over and over and over and I I'm I'm willing to guess that if you had to speak to. Most people who have succeeded in whatever creative endeavor they've been trying to get to. They'll tell you that they got beaten over the head severely starting out and a lot of disappointment probably wanted to quit many times I'd say, very very very few people walk in the door and get the gold ring on the first shot that does not happen very often. Agree, but you need that drive and you've got it I. Mean You have you had it in the Olympics and now you have it you know with with your new photographic career. New Anymore ongoing that's why it's successful. Yeah I mean you gotta it's just about fire what fires you up I mean if you if you've got the desire for something, you just people just have to figure out what they love. Tiger I didn't know I really honestly picked up a camera to make a buck. So I could get out of a bar I didn't know I was GonNa Fall in love with it. You know the helpful that I just absolutely love this job. I don't I don't work I don't. This is not work for me. What's it bigger escape view a nice day out on the day or or a a a nice day behind the camera and I don't mean professionally or just going off yourself just going out taking pictures which just catching that right sale wh-what or is there a difference between the two? I think this sailings my release like I get out of the studio get out on the water and I recharge you know that's that's like especially when I'm sailing about that I'm good at like I. have two boats. One is the laser. The other one is called an east cow and it's more challenging and I sell it with other crew members so I've to crew. Members and I've had ups and downs in. It's a right now when I go out on that boat I, get my I just get throttled I'm just not that good but in two thousand and ten I was the national champion, which was a huge accolade on my resume I can't it it was amazing how I won that regatta and It means it's one of my. One of my big ones for me in my in my sailing career But if I go in that boat now you know I. Enjoy it because I'm with my friends but I'm not performing. Well. So I had my worst day of sailing two weeks three weeks ago about three weeks ago I went out on Saturday in the east cow and I just got we. There were like there were only like ten boats maybe I think I finished I got like six seven, eight I got tenth I think I would've finished. Seventh or eighth overall for the day, which is not my thing and I was it was probably one of my worst days of sailing. Every move was completely wrong. So it created this as the the hundred and eighty degree loser for that I keep going. If I look back on my life, it just looks like you know these things that these failures created the the drive to be successful. So the next day get in the other boat and I was just like I'm just GonNa take it out on these people I won. On. Every raise their the flipped over in one and I and I submerge the boat another but I, but I won the regatta and then it carried on the next week. There was another regarded in that boat and I won seven races in a row and and just, and it's just like. Yes you know. It really depends on where you put your confidence thing like I don't have the confidence that I have in the laser that I have in the east coast. So any shows on the race course so it's the same in life like if you're I, always tell photographers like like if you WANNA be a portrait photographer, you have to photographs make people as you can and get used up people for Cam you should be failing with people in front of your camera every day because I don't remember the good ones. I only remember the ones that were tough. And that made me better. So it's never it's never all Rosen. If it is then you're not learning you're not growing and I think reason for attaining any goal or anything you set out to do is is is really supposed to be. How much time are you shooting though I mean it sounds like you're on the voted last. or You'd. Priority Straight John. That's what's going on. You know it's funny I made a goal for myself. I was like a couple years ago I was like okay I wanna be a world champion. I'm going to have to sell a lot. I'm going to create different sources of income so that I can do that. So I have a lot of teaching products I make lights with West got which amazing because I needed them because I can now travel with them. So now I'd go all over the world wherever I have a regard I said workshops and I'm able to go. So in I forget what year was I. think it was like two years a couple years ago and Then, I realized I sailed too much by eighty days on the water one year and I was like, okay, this is a little bit much. I gotTa go pay attention to my business a little bit. But now with this hitting, it's like, oh my Gosh I can't sale all the REGATTAS got cancelled. I can't photograph people because is just not really that safe yet, and I've been doing a little bit but not much and and now I'm just trying to find our way and I think we've got this little hiatus our in our lives that it's really opening up. People's eyes to what what you really want to do and what really matters most and I decided that. A world champion. So I'm like I'm I'm actually. Since I can't be on the water sailing against people I'm in the gym. So I've been working out a lot and I'm still gonNA take that seriously. But I, I wanted to compose my life in a way where I didn't have to be in the studio and I I only had one source of income for a really long time and that was somebody being in front of my camera and that obviously isn't what it was a good thing that I diversified when I did because now I have I'm I love the hedgehog teaching every day. Doing stuff every day and I'm yesterday we were shooting videos today I. got more videos to do tomorrow. I'm doing my first workshop since this whole thing started six students coming in I'm keeping it small but it's Scott. I'm excited to do it. You know. Let me just one quick question and I think it sums up some of the stuff we're talking about and I've heard you speak about this idea. But you know you're yourself todd I mean you've had some people obviously you know push you and guide you but. What are the advantages looking back and even some of the disadvantages of being self taught. I think you don't know what the rules are see just I didn't know any rules like I just was like doing stuff like just taking pictures and and now I tell everybody when I learned royds just meant to be broken. So I did this this tutorial with the stoppers called luminaries in the face and they come into the studio and they say, okay the first thing we're gonNA teach Zimmer Square lawn I was like what's that? And they're like what and I would think I don't know any of this stuff. I never look at anything. I only I had like blinders on I was just saying my studio shooting and and it was all trial and error like i. that's the way I learn and you know being around like being on set with Bruce Weber helps like you're looking at like what's going on at the top of the industry and then seeing The work that comes out of it and I just Kinda was like okay. I know I know where the bar is. I'm trying to get up there and it's still you know still always trying to get up there but but they came in and they said that and I was like I really don't know what it is. They were like it's you use it all the time for your work I was like I do. I was like, okay they're like, okay. Well, we have to teach it I was like, wow, you're going to have to teach me and they're gonNA choose so they taught me and then we filmed me teaching it and then they put it on Youtube and I can't tell you how many people tell me how wonderful my It is. My my explanation to the ember. Square laws. Phenomenal. It's the best thing out there. That was like the other day. No. I. Just let it. I will. We won't tell anybody cut the threatening. It's our sacred. It's just it's just between the four of us. Don't worry about anything. You can say anything you want it's just the four of us. Okay. We're GONNA take a short break and we come back. We're going to be talking with Peter Hurley about ten thousand head shots for free in one days. Stay tuned. We hope you're enjoying this edition of the beach photography podcast. The best way to support the show is by subscribing on apple podcasts, Google podcast spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, links to gear and more information on today's guests. Check out the show notes and your podcast APP or visit our homepage on the B and h explorer website and join the age photography podcast facebook group, and now back to the show. Okay. We are back up. Peter headshot crew tell us about it. I I guess you know years ago I was shooting like I said, I had blinders on I was in my studio was doing my own thing and people call in like call up and be like. I needed head shot and I and I back. I've always been kind of expensive. It's like a thousand bucks that'd be like it's a thousand bucks a here click and I was like, oh my gosh that person needs a head shot, but they can't afford me obviously because they just hung up on me I need to do something and I was like all. This was the four my foray into trying to have other sources of income and I was like, what if I train somebody to do what I do and we charge a Lesser Price Point and I ended up doing that and opening up a studio la in having a photographer out there and photographers in new. York. And then we I was starting to do that and I was like, wait a minute hold on. I just did it in New York and La one on I do it. All over the world and my web designer. Who had been working with me since like we became really good friends in he had just designed my my original website He was like what we can make a website. That's like a you know a place for photographers to talk and stuff and I was like that's crate and then. I was like this was in two, thousand, seven or two, thousand, eight we start talking about we didn't design it until we launched it in twenty eleven it's got now it's got over seventeen thousand photographers on the site. There's over twelve hundred in my coaching program right now and I have so associated divers all over the world and we feed them jobs there's a referral engine built into the site. So they not only get jobs, they get taught how to do the recipe that I. That has made me my on the income that I've made with Edge Atari, which is really it really works. So I take photographers in Zanu who are either already somewhat successful or just starting headshot photography, and we turn their studio into something that's rock, and hopefully for them and a lot of my photographers are making a really really good living just photographing headshots, which is phenomenal to me. It's very rewarding and not only that the camaraderie and the crew like my best friends are in there so. I have mentors that helped coach with the site Amman live on zoom. You know four days a week basically It's we are I'm on two days a week but I have other mentors that are doing it the other days and it's just a it's become a phenomenal program. We did headshot mania was the first conference. I. Did in twenty eighteen and then we just luckily by the skin of our teeth got headshot mania to done in Vegas right before this all hit. So it was it was. It was amazing. Some conferences I, do my workshops. The online coaching is continuous and It's just a lot of fun and it's very rewarding for me so. It's like a a month. So it's it's pretty easy for tires to jump on it and try it. that this is. A good time for a people to reconsider their their head shots because we're no longer needing in Curson and I think it's important right now to. Make sure that when you're putting yourself out there, and then now all you've got is you face. It has to look good. It has to look right and it has to present a personality and I was looking at one of your youtube videos actually the one on on this Ten thousand headshot project and somebody's summed up they go your head shot is your digital handshake and that just nailed it. Was My more my one of the CO founders of Hedgehog Booker Lauren Lieberman said that and I thought I couldn't have said it better that was perfect. Yeah. It was it was it was dead on yet yeah. Well, what you just said too I was thinking that while you were saying and I try and convey this to people all day long but you know it's coming from me the headshot photographer that's. Looking for the business and trying to get edge the awareness of a good headshot out there on a daily basis. So for what you just said I'm like the guys the cameras up his nose going Nostra lightest on his shot it's not. It's like not good. So I'm coaching photographers had had a create these better shots for individuals and it and it and it spiraled into this. Thing of How can we give back? It was actually one of my most successful headshot photographers is Tony Tayfun. He's in Scottsdale Arizona and we He came to me with the idea of starting this headshot booking agency called headshot booker, and we use the you know I already have the tires place I've already coached them. companies are looking for one stop shops where they have. You know offices all over the country, our world, and we can create a consistent product across the board for them so to. Do that and was like because I wasn't going to do it without some help and I was like, okay. All right. Let's do it. So we started up and then covert hits any goes he goes I just WANNA help I'm think I'm going to go shoot some people who lost their job for free and I was like that's great. Tony really good idea and goes wait a minute while if I'm going to do it, why don't we just do it with all our photographers like across the country and I was like That's pretty aggressive. I was like, what do you think in any goes? Why don't we take ten thousand head shots in one day and I was like? Okay. Oh. My Gosh. Sure like during Kovin, he's like, yeah, let's do it. So Lauren Lieberman is another co founder of our she hooked up with Brookefield properties and they opened up their properties, their retail properties to us. So we had all the shopping malls you referring to right. Yeah And and I went down and did reach out to my my head shocker and I said Hey. Who wants to help? Let's give away some free headshots. No attached totally free. it just felt good to do that. It was like it was like. It was amazing and the how appreciative everybody was it was really an eye opener because usually everybody's paying me a pretty penny come here and they're thankful and stuff but the but the ones it was some people with it was interesting to see most the people were really thankful and appreciative of it and some people were like What I could get, you could get a better shot of me. Like home. and. They didn't know who they were coming to like we set it up. So I didn't they didn't want everybody in I was down at Brookefield place here in Manhattan and. Nobody wanted to you know we had a we'd another setup with the budget photographers added Uptown and we just didn't say where who what photographers were wear and we had people sign up. So whatever photographer they got they ended up getting like we and we tried to do it in every major city across across the country. It was it was challenging we had. Some helps cannon sponsored, which was phenomenal. We had an awesome delivery service called spot my photos that you would shoot the person, and then they would instantly get text in their phone with the pictures which made it so much easier for delivery to get the pictures of these people because the amount to number we were going owes no no, no retouched no editing just. Cameron on their phone. Yeah. So what I did was, I coached them on the lighting shots are really clean like the setups that I do I coach in the headshots crew three setups basically It's a parallel lighting setup, a triangle setup or or a square and I coached them. We did zoom causing coach Diff- photographers on what they were supposed to do prior to the events or the shots looked pretty clean Offer, a retouching if they wanted it, and most of that was free sometimes people like if they really wanted it to look you know we would hire out. But. We didn't want them to feel like they spend. We wanted to give them the picture. So if they had a friend that retouched or whatever just we obviously I I don't like to overeat touch my photos so I don't like people you know taken him in going crazy with them but In this case, we just wanted to get them the shots and we created a facebook group for the attendees and we started to get all these. Messages about them. Getting jobs and the and the shot actually helping. So it was a a huge undertaking and. Allen to set it up I mean even the cannon involved was a week to cover. It sounds like it must have been now it was like took months. It took more guys you guys helped we had we had support from being guys helped immensely with getting geared at the photographers and You Know Gabes always got my back and he's he's like. You know the it didn't work out with the covert thing. We were going to have the the your life team come down and be with me for the day, but it unfortunately didn't work out but but the support that we got from H was phenomenal because of tires were able to get gear that they otherwise couldn't have gotten through you know just. Reaching out and talking to the market which was huge i. mean it was just a huge thing especially during this time three guys to make this the the stuff that they needed accessible for them was Arnstein I'm curious about one thing. These are photographers that are already working with you. These are these are your hedge head shooters right now don't they have equipment? that. The using obviously, you must have a standardized lighting system. If these are essentially franchise operations, the has to be uniform, which means that whatever lighting you're using they should be using. So did they not have lighting just WanNa have additional lighting there. Why did you need Canon or anybody else involved with this because it seems to me everyone's got cameras, lenses and lights? We didn't I mean cannon was there just to support with with funding to help us. We'll we got all the signs and stuff photos, latte. Dr Provide was was on board and they helped us we had like you know the little circles on the floor six feet apart and we had all this sign edge and all this stuff and we were fessing stuff all over the country for every every photographer got a package and it was because cannon like the idea so much that they they were the only ones to to buck up and give us the funding that we needed and we went over budget. But Hey, we couldn't have done it without cannon so. No not every photographer has my same setup, but I coached them in a way that that you know it's it's a very simple like whatever gear photographers have I can teach them how to take a good headshot with it. It's not like rocket science but they have to work at it, and if they work at it, if they get fifteen shots that are consistent. In portfolio by me, they become an associate on the headshots crew and that's really really begin to fly I. Think we've got a hundred and forty some odd associates across the world, and if they're an associate photographer, it's it's a it's a major vetting process like to get by I don't I don't make it easy. It's very difficult and your name is on, it shouldn't be. Yeah, and then once once they're there, then I feel very secure giving them whatever jobs are coming down the pike. So that's what those are the ones that go into the head shop booker system, and those are the ones we're getting referrals every single day through the headshots crew and through hedge booker now, and they go out to the associates first and foremost unless another headshot crew photographer is in the area. So if you go to Hitch Chuck Dot Com and go into the fine of tar EC type any town and it'll show the Closest photographer that is in my program we have seventeen thousand on the site. There is a there are photographers that don't show up in the search. So if somebody's not close chances are somebody is close. So for ten thousand headshots, I went into the back end and went, okay who's not part of the coaching? Essentially, you know there's a, there's a twelve dollar fee. If you want to get into the into the photographer search a month or twenty five dollars, get you to coaching with me and there's a slew stuff in their hundreds of videos. And you get a newsletter with a new video from me every week and and all this other stuff that we do. But if they're not there, they're still in my system. So I'll go in and search for them. Check out their work in a lot of the times for the ten thousand headshots initiative I reached out personally and said, hey, we need somebody in your area. We've got Brookville property. We can set you up. You just have to show up that day I want to see what kind of have we did questionnaires with the gear. and what they were using, and it was really interesting what the Tigers had, and we did recommended setups and everything like that. So we also did testing. So I said, look go test your set up, take a picture, take a picture, send it to me will do during our zoom calls, which we did weekly we coached on the on the on the shooting so that photographers even if they were a little bit, you know weren't as seasoned as others we wanted to make sure everybody had a good experience at ten thousand headshots. Quality Control. Yeah okay. I'm impressed with what you did upfront to get all this to happen any follow up stories or anything like that. Afterwards feedback from people who went through in any interesting stories as a result of what you did and you and you and your crew. The notes that I got and this is the thing Mont. my I decided a long time ago on my purpose will need to be for this photography thing and it was basically having people more confident in their appearance in a better relationship with their appearance that they than they had previously from being in front of my camera, and that's what it was I. Way of spreading that is through the headshots crew if I can coach Tarver, how to take a good per person. So that person is more confident because they were in front of that photographer's camera with really did something and we can spread that around the around the globe I think people are too harsh on themselves with their appearance in the way they look in the way they present themselves to society, and now with this thing. So digital everything. So visual, it becomes even more important. So we had people writing in that. You know they changed the way they felt about themselves the feedback that they got from friends and family and anybody who saw the shots was phenomenal and it turned into jobs. It actually turned into them getting jobs because I think an employer won't. Even though it's not required on a resume to have a picture of somebody, I think before you hire somebody, you're probably going to Google hit images, maybe look through their social try and get a sense of the person, and if you just offer that picture up ahead of time and just say, Hey, this is me this is what you know what you're. What you're getting. Here's here's what you're going to see because the probably doing meetings over something like zoom or skype or whatever It's just nice to have a really nice picture to follow it up with and I think that it helped and it did help open up doors for people and like you said, your Buddies A. An Im- like who's GonNa Give Him Money v looks like a slob on a couch wet than you know spruced up a bit. Yeah. No. No that that. That's the whole thing and also I think anybody would understand that that. We will have a certain self impression of what we are are are are strong points in short shortcomings and I think we'll probably will be cruel on ourselves but you definitely have different feel about you when you put on a new set of clothing or a suit or staten, you step out you have a different attitude I'm I mean I dress pretty casualties much as can but I know that when I put on a suit is it or even just dress up a little bit more polished different attitude that goes on with that and These days, you don't have an opportunity to walk in door and say, Hi and make impression it like again it's that photograph that's who you are, and then you have your voice and your personality which comes after that. So it it's all part of the package and I think a lot of people have to realize that it ahead shot his just a pretty picture of you. It's it's it's billy represents who you are and can make can make or break whether you're going to be getting something or not the job or whatever the case may be. How? Important is it in? Do you consider yourself kind of skilled at? Finding that characteristic of a person that kind of stands out they may consider an ugly characteristic or or you know who knows everyone looks at themselves differently but is at a skill that you kind of have or work on to kind of say. All right. Let's focus on bringing out this aspect of their personality or or their hair. There is something that may be another person noticed but you think is worth it. Well what I have found is that the beauties always they're like we're human beings were gorgeous individuals like it's just unbelievable that we exist they're all in let alone worry about the way we look. So there's always ways and it and it comes through energy like it's like if somebody feels good about themselves, they're gonNA photograph better like our subconscious is just going to kick in like nobody even thinks about their expressions all day long you don't walk down the street and go on walking by somebody I got a poll, the corners, my mouth tore my ear lobes now so that they get a little smile Adamy no, your brain does that automatically with. The mask on, it's a little different but the point is, is that that we don't take conscious control over our expression until we're in front of a camera, sometimes you do in front of a mirror but in front of a camera, it just becomes weird the number one thing that I've learned since I've been photographing is that our brain will try to tell us what her face looks like, but it doesn't know. So now you've got your brain telling your face looks strange right in our. This is a cool face or whatever, and the photographers looking at you in your blank and doing nothing not giving any energy to the camera. So the IRS to. That and stop and create an atmosphere for the person to flourish and people who don't like the way that they look in general or just just don't know what to do usually look fearful and fear in a headshot doesn't pan out it just makes the Onlooker WanNa look away and when that's not what we want, we want to draw people towards US rather than than away with that and if I was, you know, I'm I'm charging them to do this. So I have to convey in my work. It's all based on confidence coupled with approachability, and then what happens is if people are having, you know enjoying themselves in. Front of the camera or creating that car getting more confidence confidence is contagious. So I'm very confident behind the camera. So when I start directing people, they know exactly what they need to do like they don't have to do anything there and I think that I do things with them that make them go whoa what what is and my method the number one question I get from from my students usually is how do you get somebody relax in front of the camera and there's a very simple answer you make them forget about the camera and the only we forget about the cameras through relationship that you've developed with them for. For doesn't matter how much time that can happen in a split second like I don't meet people before I, shoot them they come in the door and that's where it all starts. It goes right from there and I read their energy on like okay. They're really this person's They're really stressed out about this and I have to go into this mode of of getting them to chill and sometimes people walk in. And IF PEOPLE WANNA watch the That's what this is about is called bridging the Self acceptance gap. It's like it's just the the way that it is the way we aren't in society and never had anybody walk in my door and say, Peter, this your lucky day my hair's incredible my skin flaws as slept. Easy on you you know. Always like Oh my gosh I'm late I'm sweaty. My Hair's a mess. You know it's like we lived in this fall societies of photographers here that all the time and I'm always like, okay let me let me get rid of that I have to get rid of that energy and turn it around and the only way to flip it on its head is to have a product that you know you're confident in and and that you know is going to be something special for the person and confident in yourself. So when you start to you know. Work with somebody they feel it and they know they're in good hands and that does it and then once you do that, if you can do that on a daily basis, you really got a business for yourself and and people will talk about it and then and then it's just you know that's the way you get your best referrals from from from your work. You Know Peter Absolutely pleasure talking to it people want to catch up with more of you work and and what you've been up to websites instagram where can they go? Websites Peter. Hurley, Dot Com instagram is Peter Underscore Hurley and hedgehog crude dot com is the is the photographer site. That's great and again, all of this would be on our show notes. If people want to follow up and I suggest you do this system great stuff here again, it's more than just a head shot and Peter Again. Thank you so much for. Being on our show and I know that you've had a lot of interaction with being in the past and all kinds of endeavors and Hopefully, we'll continue this way and thank you again for being here today. Thank you for having me. I didn't even get to my store I. IF PEOPLE WATCH WAS A headshot redefine and I go into tears Tom, my my be h story because you guys started my speaking you know my speaking all started in in the events base of. Being Age, and that was where I started this whole thing. So I really have to be I'm so appreciative be an ancient what you guys have done for me and it really it really strikes a chord with me in an I. Love You guys. So thanks for me on. That's great and by the way, if it wasn't for being H, I wouldn't be a podcast hosts. So I know what you're talking about it. They just took a chance on me one day. There you go. Theater. Thanks again, if you'd like to get a heads up the moment, a new photography podcast goes live. It's easy simply head on over to a review, get your podcast fix type being photography podcast into the search field and boom. You're part of the family you can also find is under denatured explored a website and on the beach photography podcast facebook group. All that said, my name is Alan Whites and on behalf of John Harris and Jason tables. Thank you so much for tuning in to day.

Olympics Bruce Weber United States New York City TA gold medal Peter Hurley Peter Madrid York Alan White Cannon Youtube San Francisco Miami Europe Cancun H. Photography Ice Sail Dinghy
Stop Stomping Edition

Courtside with Seth Greenberg

19:49 min | 1 year ago

Stop Stomping Edition

"At the BUZZER. Hello so timeouts they courtside ride with Greenberg and dockage the definitive college basketball podcast. Hey welcome to an emergency podcast. The gift that keeps keeps on giving Kansas Basketball Brawl last night. If it happens in college hoops you know suffering are going to be all over and we are the Great Seth Greenberg the coach whisper. Let's get right into it seth. Mo- thing mind boggling. I hear the words that come to my mind egregious both parties culpable This appointing reprehensible in terms of both both teams. Here's the other thing I wanted to get through. This is a pet peeve of eight. Look I understand understand the case. They can should've stole the ball. You know unwritten rule. But you know what he did. That's just the way it is. It's like meal you know you know On at the end of the game the guy that all right the Susan Block the shot. That's fine once. He stood over that kid all hell broke loose now. The Kid James Love for Kansas. State him coming off the bench in dress clothes in that Polo. 'cause he was not healthy enough to play. It wasn't enough to play but himself enough to come off. The bench was absolutely Disappointing but what happened. After that is an embarrassment to college. Basketball's embarrassment the case state. It's a virus with the Kansas. It's embarrassment to the big twelve. I mean you think about this coach. Howard if he doesn't grab it silly Desouza all right? Who knows what happened with that share? I mean they were in the handicap section and then to see the altercation extent right to the end of the wall and she potential players kicking and swinging and hitting. It's an embarrassment. The last thing I'll say about Dan is this is not A. Hey Bill self decision. This is not a Bruce Weber decision administrators standup spanned up league administrators. Stand up athletic director. Stand up and make a statement that this type of behavior is not acceptable. It's an embarrassment to our game. It's embarrassing the every single guy. The played before you in the matter which took place and make a statement those two kids for sure. The two kids were part of the instigation. Should not play again today. You don't think they should play again this year. No way that kid who came off the best Kansas State or out there. That's not a chance. So they decide thousand not a chance you I got a question Marcus. Garvey got suspended from the NFL. Swinging a helmet and saying that helmet was basically a weapon asks. What was the chair? Potentially if it wasn't coach our man dangerous says I would go farther. Here's what bothered me. Guy Coming off the bench. I maybe you make the case. He was protecting his teammates. I don't know okay fine to me I. I don't get this Donovan. A lot of people on twitter. Say Well Dan. Haven't you ever seen a fight us. Three you know in college In street fights in different things. So I've seen a fight on a couple of knowing highschool go I've seen some fights But three guys stopping a guy when he's on the ground to me Is reprehensible it it is I mean what are you. What are you doing you trying to kill him? He tried to name him a teaching him a lesson. I mean to me the chair absolutely Any Right Co Tower did a great job of getting that thing out of his hands but the guy stopping guy who's down on the ground Who does that I mean you gotta ask you in hiring human being you are if you are going to stop somebody on the ground you just have to? You have to ask yourself and your your coach has ask yourself and quite frankly I have a friend who's going through this with his son at a university where he didn't punch anybody. He didn't hit anybody in stop anybody. He was defending offending a girl who got rookie. And he's facing probation from the university for the guy not physically not even threatening just being. They're going after a guy and if I'm president of university if I'm a administrator of a university I I'm having a a decision to make whether or not I'm I'm going to let guys that stop. Somebody swing a chair at somebody remain in my university. And that's not a bill self thing That's just me as a guy. Hi that is supposedly in control of his university. That's what I would do. I mean to me I I agree with you the extent that I think this is this is well above. This is this you president. Let me ask you another question. This is a bigger price. When you continuously your institution on the bottom line never say oh so? I've said this rivalry never a good thing. You see the should I say they had all the time. I say this all the time. Athletic Directors I have egos presidents have egos athletic directors. Presidents have to go answer her for many times players coaches and make excuses quite frankly for players and coaches actions in in the public eye. And if I were that I think they have a chancellor counselor and if I were the athletic director in the chance it'd be I I would have had enough a bill self one thing that that's proven to me is. It doesn't really matter who you bring in their Kansas GonNa win. I mean they just simply are whatever the reason is they win. They'RE GONNA win. I would have a serious conversation about exactly what you just said. Hey look come seeing myself too far a two on the bottom line way too much. You know I'm surprised self admitted to sing. This isn't self the great no blind line guy when it comes to this kind of stuff and I said I'd have I'm with you have a problem with with this being on the bottom line so much. Yeah I it's it's just a thing after another after another and you know it's refreshing of you know what the players are bringing the India program how you bring those players in your program and there's a lot to the situation but I mean this is this is this is really an embarrassment and the matter which took place and You know the he said both sides coupable I like I don't want to say well. This is a has is probably this. Is the Kansas State problem. Also absolutely this say look we all know you got it. I've done at eight before you play first game. I don't want to ever see I had to check with the things I said. Look I don't need to get back. Oh Johnny and my coach you so you gotta stay on on on the bench and by the way our leaders did you step up and make sure that guy step on batch. But there's a difference between apostle a typical basketball five guys go backwards. I mean that was kermit Washington. I mean some of the swings. I mean that that what what took place in that corner of the arena in the disabled corner of the arena where there was that was unbelievable and look. Bill showed remorse who showed remorse. And that's great but and you can't hold their hands twenty four seven. What happened happened? What Asu for people to say well? It's rivalry game please. I don't WanNa hear. It's the rivalry game. I played a lot of rivalry games. You played rivalry games. That looked like it was absolutely something that would happen in the park back. That shouldn't be happening on that stage in that environment. I it's it's it's it's it's absolutely reprehensible and it's it's a black guy on a sport right now our sport that we're looking for to celebrate. There's nothing to celebrate. We're going to Kansas for Gosh Game Day. It is. We gotta go to Kansas. Because it's become story. Part part of it is Game Day is a reward celebrate the game. Celebrate your team's success and and and bring joy to people you know what I understand. What document what happened? You know. We're also you know there are probably other schools and programs that are more rewarding. Oh my gosh sad. We have seeing such a gutlessness. Among administrators in terms of successful coaches know came guys in federal trials. Getting extended is. Is that have assistance going to jail. Not being fired we we have seen this so Do you think let me ask you this question because I'm not putting this on Bill L. Self. I'm I'm putting this Maybe this is a little bit ridiculous and I'm a little bit hesitant to do it because it's really only one five actually last night. We had a kid kicked out the Illinois Game Alan Griffin for stomping on a kid Christian Leitner Amino timberlake style. But in in sticking with this do you. Do you think specific to Kansas. Like you know the bill self has been through all this stuff. You know that. Kansas has been through all this stuff a- at some point internally do players. I don't know the right word. Seth did they tune out leadership. So do you tune it out you only take in the part where you say man. He's GonNa give me the league the tune out the other stuff because of all the the garbage that Kansas has been about here with federal trials and Snoop Dogg and all these allegations desouza and you know the genocide. I don't think I'm asking the question right but the BASS I don't think I don't think they tune out but I mean there has been a series of things happen Kansas ignoring nothing through the years. Years No. I think I think this was a unique situation that moment in time I think that I think that It's unfortunate. I like I don't know the south. I don't know I don't know who he is. I don't know what makes I know. He was in the middle of necessity investigation. I know that Kansas fought to get his eligibility moved out he was supposed to be sitting out even more they fought for him. You would think he would be indebted and understand you know what. Here's what I gotta do. I gotta go to class. I got to be a good citizen. I gotta work hard. I gotta be I gotTa make good decisions so I mean you know. I don't think those kids tune them out. I think I watched bill run practice. I mean he's he's tough but they respond that he has a way about him. That's pretty good. I just think eventually when you start say put days on top of each other and it's we all WanNa do sculpture. You're on grammar. The focus is on top of each other. wingless fix yourself. You put bad days on top of each other eventually. It's the story and the story becomes bigger and bigger each dot and this story right now is not a good reflection on Kansas and I hate to say it but I mean you know Rick Pitino might be cleared everything that happened at Louisville. It looks that way it hasn't been named in did any of this stuff in the FBI or or probably NCWA yet. We don't he's no longer kosher. 'cause actually the bottom line I it sounds silly but the bottom line got him and I'm not sure about you know how the players said enough for you know La. I'm going to do whatever we want. I don't know that I just think it was a bad moment in time. But it's another moment in time and when you file these moments in time and we're all susceptible acceptable to let's say Ross. Except for when you coach your all susceptible to decisions of eighteen and Nineteen Year Olds when you're coaching college. Athletics your careers in the hands of eighteen. Nineteen Year olds and then making good decisions the choice but they've had a lot of bad choices. Let's move this forward a little bit bill self on a call I just now said look. We will accept responsibility for the role in which we played. I'm not saying K.. State is innocent in this by any stretch. Not Saying they're guilty. I'm commenting on Kansas State. Let's move this forward. What do you think will happen? And what do you think should happen. I think that that the South Asia and and the kid James Love should be suspended for the year and evaluated after that both probably should be in some anger management classes. I think that That anyone David McCormack there's video evidence of what you think has happened that he should be under the same umbrella and and and be suspended suspended. And you know anyone that led to that esscalation so that was a little surprising from bill because basically he backs background a little bit also. Have you read that again. Re read it. Read it again to me. This is for Matt norlander on twitter says we will accept responsibility for the role. We played not saying Kay stays innocent in this by any stretch not saying they're guilty commenting on Ku right. Yeah exactly that's fine and you know what I agree with what he said. They should take responsibility and they're part of the situation. He didn't need to speculate on case day. Yeah my kid's right. Here's the thing to me and I F- police people if you're a Kansas fan listen to this thing. I don't need you to tell me I go self because yes I have actually record relationship. But they'll south are hey Kansas. I don't WanNa hear it all right. Here's the deal in that moment in time you're concerned don't worry about whether K.. State state had a hand in it. You're worried about one thing your team your player Your Program Your Institution. That's it like that. That was say that was basically a knuckleball might be I do too and the bill also said apparently coined my med cab. I think you had a situation escalated because emotions emotions get the best of us. He also said he doesn't really matter to me. What happened or what went down? In competition things can escalate sometimes. And you don't want that. This was not a part of that. This was not heated competition. So it wasn't. It was not like it was Cairo. Competition addition playing hard. That's not playing hard. That's not being tough everything that happened. After the shot was blocked wasn't toughness. It was far from toughness. That's that's my I think it's cowardice I always think it's cowardice when you're swinging or stomping on a guy just can't get over the stomping part. I mean I know Leitner did it. I know but when you got a guy down in a brawl and you're continually three of you sitting standing around him stomping him I think those guys you mentioned anger management. I mean to me. There's two things that have to happen. I've been here one You gotta have severe consequences in two. If the people involved WanNa get help you gotta get them help. That's how I look at it but the consequences most most times are the best help. People don't understand that any more people think the consequences are punishment unjust punishment. But to me I think you know you gotta have severe consequences here. I could see a thing like a staggered suspension. You know guys coming off the. Yeah because you'RE NOT GONNA you're not gonNA Forfeit five games in a row. Because you don't have enough guys in that that kind of thing and I could see for both teams again. We haven't really talked. Bruce handled it very poorly after the game. I thought he was to matter of fact maybe he was trying to take the emotions out of it. Maybe maybe you know you get a little older and you saw what happened with Luchetti way back in the day you've seen what you saw. What happened with Louisville and South Carolina back in the US a real bra? I mean this was a real bra but you'll see another real brawl. Objected tape outback. When purvis ellison went in the stands? I mean we've seen as you get older. You've seen these things. A lot of young people haven't seen this in college basketball. So maybe Bruce was was just reacting as a guy that's seen a lot of maybe he was just trying to what he said. I hope no one gets seriously Absolutely serious consequences. That's silly l. e. on the wrap this thing up all right how does this differ. What happened in Illinois? Purdue game stopping yeah I I don't know set it to me. It's a reaction of one. Kid The one kid has opposable wild melee and and look. I love my my my new favorite coach is Brad Ed underwood because he just told the get the hell out and that had half time With molly he said Lug. We're not worried about him. We're just moving on and playing okay and you know I I love that. I love the fact that the referees had the intestinal fortitude to give the kid the boot unlike what happened with Leitner in Kentucky where they referees freeze backed off. Because who knows why so you know. I think it's different set. I know the argument can be made that. It's not different. A stunt I get it I do but when you've got guys swinging chairs and you've got fans involved and you've got stopping a guy in a corner and you've got a girl that gets back into this thing and it's just bigger and broader seth. So I I I somebody can call me a hypocrite for that and I'll accept it but it just seems you know bigger and broader than just the guy getting a stop. You know what I mean I I. I think I think if it's gotta get multiple games I do. Yeah actually on and I expect to come down really really hard. Because that's who he is. I mean that's kind of what he stands for you. I mean there was no trepidation. There was no you know I mean. And he's dressed it straight on right from the beginning that we're not gonNA have this versus thing. I was surprising really surprising to me because he said I hope you know basically said I hope no one gets suspended. I mean basically. I hope we can move on from this. Well you know this is one of those things you can't move on for. I think that last thing is you know we both got a run here. But let's see what the these administer quarter quarter administrators they the Guardians of the game. Basically the League office this and let's see what they do. That's my thing can be thorough going to be very very interesting so I'm not look gloomy. We just finished with this. I'm not expecting a lot out of any administrator or any head coach. I'm not I'm sorry I'm not maybe the League office. Maybe you know Oh and I'm also waiting for this to be the NC Double A.'s fault somehow because that seems to be like everybody get paid nothing better than an emergency pack. Ah Yeah if it happens a hoop said Greenberg and I are going to be all over it. You know that do yourself a favor. Subscribe dozen rate us a ten or five or whatever because as we deserve. Thank you for listening to courtside with Greenberg dockage you can listen and subscribe to all. ESPN podcast in the listen tab of the ESPN had APP including the latest from the N._B._A.. In the hoop collective podcast available in the E._S._p._N.. APP or apple podcast.

Kansas Seth Greenberg Basketball administrator Bill L. Self twitter Bruce Weber director Susan Block Illinois Right Co Tower Kansas State Louisville Leitner Mo Howard Donovan League president kermit Washington
Best Of: Sports Nicknames

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

1:07:10 hr | 1 year ago

Best Of: Sports Nicknames

"Stugotz here here's a new year's resolution. You can actually keep test your vehicle's battery at advance auto parts. They'll do all the work for you swing by today and they'll test your battery for free. No appointment let me necessary if you need a new one. They'll install it easy. Plus enter the Code Dan Twenty when you buy online this twenty percent of your battery purchase so forget losing weight. Wait and saving money and all that Mumbo jumbo just test your vehicle's battery at advance auto parts advance auto parts. They head they advance and he sees the base of the lebatardshow with this dot. Spot cast fast. To God's has gone through all of the Antonio Brown takes that you will find anywhere in sports media and on the Internet and he has found the one one. No one else is taking we will get to that in a second. He has exclusive. You'll only hear it here. Opinion on the Antonio Oh Brown the latest Antonio Brown incident but before we get to that we have to thank Kansas and Kansas State for giving us something on a slow Wednesday Wednesday there was a fight. Someone grabbed a stool and then everyone started panicking and worrying about America's children and talking about what an honor and a privilege. It is to play college basketball so if you did not see it last night. Evidently it escalated with four seconds left in a blowout. Everybody was just just watching the normal twenty point loss by Kansas State against Kansas. Last four seconds of the game a kid. I've Kansas State steals tells the ball that's considered unsportsmanlike the kid from Kansas. Because he's a lot better runs back blocks the shot stands over him and taunts him and next thing you know there's a brawl Paul spilling into the stands and guys grabbing a stool. All of it made worse by the stool grabbing by the way once. You've got one kind of menace. which is he's just fists but then once the stool is grabbed right objects a stool? Now we have been doing this in some form or another if you guys could come up with something earlier than this. It's Alan Iverson was in highschool the fight in the bowling alley. That looked a lot like that. Usually we don't have the video but when we have the video when we have the video of the fight then next thing you know Alan Iverson is being railroaded because it's terrifying. There was a giant person swinging tool a stool. That's always horrify. Yes that owes escalates and everyone everyone was rabid and crazy now. How bill self is going? After his own players Bruce Weber recite kind of less sure Bruce Weber Bruce Weber is not doing what bill self is. Here's the bill self has to say but I know that we were in the wrong thing in both parties born in the wrong but I know that we were in the wrong. They'll sell some some accountability. Well you'd think he'd be wigging out the other thing that Joke Aso. This is ridiculous. A- As you guys may know Seth Greenberg is a protector of the Cathedral. He stands outside front up front and allows people in or out depending on their behavior behavior. And where it is that. They're partaking in blasphemous behavior. So Seth Greenberg had the response of much of fish shaking finger-wagging ragging America. It May when you put on that uniform. You represent everyone before you and it's a privilege to put on that you're not a rite of passage and you embarrassed who who we are and our history and because of that this is a black eye on everything and anyone who's ever played at this institution and this type of behavior saver unacceptable. Wow lack guy for Danny Manning Sherman. Douglas is sitting here saying. Wait a minute what do you mean my uniform. I wouldn't is turning over in his grave right. A source of shame for anyone who has ever college basketball woke up this morning and felt ashamed because somebody was angrily swinging a stool nell Affonso Ellis gets caught up in the air though. Here's where he is coming down very hard on the kids as you must right you. You don't want these fights these are it. We can all agree. It is wrong to resort to tool swinging menace. We can not do that that although television will profit greatly today after taking all of that video and showing you again and again scared customers fleeing like cockroaches. When you've turned turned on kitchen light like scared customers got into the way of the stool swinger but Lonzo Ellis is here to castigate the players and then he pivots now? I'm not proud of it. But actually sued showed the point guard from Butler. When I was in college at Notre Dame he threw his cheap elbow my guard and being the big man I was supposed to protect my Gar and all the my teammates random pool away from him the disappointing thing about the video? Here where the Kansas players. We're the leaders on that team. Come in and pulling their teammates away. Three dudes actually ran in there and participated -ticipant and in the process feel like the leader was swinging a stool. I feel like lafont was proud of it it does. Let's hear that sound again and put on the Pole Guillermo At lebatardshow was Lonzo. Actually proud of it. I'm not proud of it but actually showed the point guard from Butler. When I was in college at Notre Dame he threw his elbow? Oh my God and being the Big Man I was supposed to protect my guard. He's laughing right. I think you might be right. That Labonte is indeed a proud of it. So what else is there to say about this subject. Don't do that. You'RE GONNA MAKE AMERICA WRINGING ITS HANDS AND SCARE PEOPLE. They'll sell his flipping his lead. Why you gotTa have a system in place to prevent this? I wonder what kind of treatment he's given the players who who he wears a toupee. That's the joke see. That's that's the joke news-making again and again BILLION MIGRA arguing this morning. They were upset because a fake playlist or platelets for the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl's in town is he a lot of people on the street staying in hotels that didn't know where bad wearing very nice suits and walking with briefcases. The Super Bowl is getting here. Slowly there are a lot of people on the street. You're where normally their bathing suits. There are a lot a lot of people walking toward money without naming any places specifically oftentimes when people come in from Outta town and they want to travel to a big game near the Stadium Stadium. They'll start looking for hotels near the area and they'll say wow. This hotel is right next to the stadium and then you just sit back and delight in the yelp reviews. That's still called the nope we don't need to get into what it's called but locals now and we will all appreciate the yelp reviews just because your the hotel is on the beach down here does not mean. Your hotel is nice. I mean I'm sorry. There are certain hotels. They're going. There are some bad decisions that can be made made on the Internet as we all know whether it's in dating or in choosing BNB's Based on the photographs be careful all of you wondering wow. This seems cheap and close close to the beach. Why would I not do this? Why is it so cheap? I got a bargain no you didn't. I'm sorry for what the rest of your life is going to look like but it has gardens in the name team. It must be so nice of driving fake of all the players who played for Kansas Kansas State and the player who cares the least about having a black guy this morning. I think I'm all day with Michael Beasley. It's funny that you should say that because I didn't realize doing Danny Manning that you were doing Kansas Kansas State when I did Sherman Douglas. I was just doing the shame him on all of college basketball. Anyone who has ever worn a uniform like Bill Walton and should be ashamed today. Because Seth Greenberg says look. This is a black eye. I for everybody involved. I've got a black guy. You've got a black eye. Anyone who watches cares about college basketball has black guy anyone's coach college basketball has blackout anyone. Who's been federally federally wiretapped? Doing illegal things has a black eye. Anyone who has cheated Anyone who has had fourteen seconds of sex in a restaurant has a black guy. Everyone's got on a black guy to me when you put that uniform you represent everyone before you and it's a privilege to put on that you're not a rite of passage and you embarrassed who we are and our history and because of that you know this is a black eye on everything and anyone who's ever played at this institution and this type of behavior's unacceptable chamberlain went to Kansas. And they got a black eye. Well didn't Seth Greenberg coached at Virginia Tech. So I don't feel like anyone who's put on. That uniform has a reason to feel ashamed today. Isn't bill self being investigated. Yes he's one of the many being investigated. Ah But this is the black guy. This is the Black Guy. Not The federal wire taps this the swinging of a stool with menace. Put It on the Pole Guillermo at Lebatardshow what is worse. Swinging a stool with menace or federal wiretaps. ESPN radio is presented by progressive. Insurance drivers you switch and save pay average got seven hundred ninety six dollars less per year. Here's your sports at our update Derek. JETER and Larry Walker will be adopted into the baseball hall of fame. Geeta was there's one vote shy of a unanimous selection. Ted Simmons seriously and former penny vote. No he didn't Brad Penny got a vote on. Aw Horse Symtas. In though Ted Simmons and former Players Association leader Marvin Miller also be inducted through the modern era committee. How many committees do they have? I'd put Brad Penny in the hall of fame just for the conversation. I had with him before. Pitching against the Yankees in the world series in which his entire staff was telling him. quit trying to throw ninety eight. Quick China's throw ninety eight and then I asked him well. What are you going to do like throw ninety nine? The the Hollywood Police Department in Florida's investigating its Odio Bram and his trainer after allegations of them. Battering the driver of a moving company truck outside of Brown Antonio Brown has not been arrested as of yet while the trainers been booked on felony burglary and battery charges. This sportscenter is brought Dubai. Advance auto parts. Think ahead. Think advance at any time one. Four batteries is about to fail. Get a free battery tests et free installation with any automotive battery. Purchase at advance auto parts for all the latest headlines and information tune into sports that are on. ESPN radio all throughout the day. Guillermo put it on the poll please is this about black is or black guys is. Jj Watt thinking thinking about his post football career already. Is he already thinking about what he's going to do. After football with acting. Is it going to be an Action Star scenario. He is going to be hosting Saturday. Night live. I have no idea how that would go. I would think that that would go stiffly but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe he would. He's so good around the cameras and he's been around the cameras so often that he'll be good at it and he always has time this time of year down though the vivid seats app an answer Promo Code. ESPN twenty five at checkout to get ten percent off your next door. Don't buy just any seat. Get a vivid seat Mike. You seem to light up at the idea of. Jj Watt hosting a Saturday night live. I like J. J. Watt. I think that's an inspired choice. I always enjoy when they get the sports star to host Saturday night. Live just physically basically. There's a lot of funny things to do there. I also hope that he can make it through full show without hurting his shoulder. So what were you guys arguing about or talking about Out as it relates to the set list for the Super Bowl because the super bowl is arriving in town. Now and because we've got it's it's going to be a distinctly Miami. Latin experience that is how J. Lo and Shakira end up getting chosen. Our guests is that pit bull and Rick Ross and a whole bunch of other people will be thrown in to the mix what happened with With the settlers though is there people were a titter on twitter. I guess there is a leaked image edge. It doesn't look very official if you man. No but this is what they did dan so it's a piece of paper that could say anything on it and now that I'm looking at it doesn't even look like things like line properly. Does it matter because it looks like it was crumbled up slightly and people had stepped on it like it was on the floor so someone came across what could or could not have been a leaked set list that was left behind during a possible rehearsal or practice. Someone definitely stepped on this at least one time. Which makes you think? Thank you know what this is probably legitimate. Even though the kind of the papers facing this way and the words are facing that way. Why would these things not be alive? But it doesn't matter. You know what Dan I'm just GonNa read you said Lee settlers and tell me what you think you're going to get excited all right so but before before we go down this path. Yeah were you guys. Initially excited didn't and then realized it was fake. Did you get caught on the gossip train of like somebody thought it was real as you know Yesterday in a way that caused me great shame that allowed my fiance laugh. Offend my face my wife. Excuse me when we got home. Look going home today your east again. I used a I got I got divorced and reengaged. Ah Good for those ahead under. She laughed in my face because I came home despondent and how I had been fooled by the Internet yesterday. Yeah Yeah and so. How did you guys feel initially well? Here's the thing Dan you say that it's fake but I mean it seems to be credited to the spirit Medica which means Good Morning America. What actually means get up America and we have a show called get up so this seems like a legitimate thing? This is super fake no way or two huge red flags known joining us. Let's just go down the settlers. All right things are going to get started with J.. Lo performing get right. Then we're GONNA move onto j.lo's singing waiting for tonight and then gooby by J. Lo and then Dan things get juicy so Jaylo is then going to perform on Real J. F.. TV Medley with Jar Rule Red Flag like number one. What why? He's not going to be part of the rule has to be part of the Super Bowl then secure comes out making her grand entrance to. She will remember that Song Dan and then she'll continue. Powerful are full and someone named. NSM is going to come out. I don't know who that is. Who is that Mike? And N N M Mexico or something. I know she's got a new new song with an well. A no this is an and then chantale third dude on me. You're GONNA come out. With Gustav Madly then Beautiful Liar by Shakira and Dan beyond say biggest flag of the mall. Y you'll be there beyond that. He's just going to grace the sage for one song insecure and Jalen are going to be totally cool with beyond saying getting on the stage and totally stealing the show and beyond say just going to be like all right guys you go ahead and bring on pit bull all of your mind. Jay Z's helping out halftime show. They go roy so that makes even more legit but why would they allow beyond said totally steal their show. Laughter after beyond comes in. Then we're GONNA go to. Whenever whatever slash belly dance medley by Shakira and accents? Then this well-crafted get lit as a the belly dance medley. Yeah we it just got let us well. Desert look official. Because they have like the choreograph numbers on things start getting lit it and then on the floor. Jalen pit bull and then we're going to kind of calm things down and actually you know what we're ending on a high note hips don't lie by Shakira and Wycliffe John on cameos aplenty. Yeah probably the biggest song of both of their catalogs make sense one starts the other one closes You really have secure closing zing Bousnina biggest song. But it's there's no way John Rule fresh off of like the fire fest. Controversy is going to be anywhere doing like a tax. Isn't he involved with some. I'm sort of tax situation now. I'm not saying in his personal life. I'm saying as a business plan that he I it seems like a terrible idea. I have not heard of rule. Yes no way. That's going to be. So what are you saying Andrew from night Al Cookies would put out something. That's not legit the tax preparation company. I'm on man. I Trust Jarrell. Who came on the poll at Lebatardshow? Is there anyone you trust less with your taxes than Jarrell. I keep in mind and you can play awesome. Entertainment porpoises all around this halftime. It's a betting bonanza and if this were legit you could get the jump on some great odds but do you think it's real. Do you really think the. NFL Jazeera allowed. jowl rule around this moreover do think secure and Jaylo are good allow beyond say anywhere near that stage. It's it's going to be an entertainment extravaganza. I don't think any of us can deny that and pre-game Dan. Dj Khallid Concert on the field before the game even started and pit bulls having a concert at at some other states somewhere that I need to figure out where that is so that I can get to that. So are they going to have people do a pre game concert part of which will be aired on Fox and then come back out for the Hatton show. I don't know he's GonNa be their jobs. Copy US does credit repair. I'm curious one hundred dollars. You walk through the door. That's what jaws promoting promoting one hundred dollars just for walking through the doors and of a pair taxes will take care of credit the entire Miami Experience Orient. What it is that they are trying to do here? I think it has to be glossy and superficial and I also think J.LO's music demands. It does it not. I really really don't even mean that as an indictment I mean it more as a catalog in twenty twenty. It's GonNa be difficult to have Jaylo musically sustained in by herself a headline act. Well it's going to be. It's going to be heavy on the choreography. And if you've seen Jaylo perform lately it's always superheavy. She's in terms of entertainment. Probably stronger of a dancer vocalist putting putting it politely. Don't like about this list is i. Don't see a rod's name on here. Sure and yeah and he absolutely needs at least four dedicated minutes to inspire. Yeah it looks like in two thousand eleven job pled guilty for failing to file tax returns. This show aim free time for some ads. He served his time. Let them do the halftime show. He's real like I was perfectly comfortable on my casper mattress unfortunately gently I had to get off it and come in here. Stand next to STU GODS I will be back to my beloved Casper. Soons God's tell them why we love Casper. Yeah it's winter. It's scary outside. So you should be staying in with Casper from award-winning mattresses. Pillows sheets and do vase Casper transforms the the way we sleep and keeps US cozy all sees it. The Casper Mattress is award-winning bounds of comfort and support from bedding bedframes. And even a dog. Bed Casper's Ashbourne everything. You need to build a bed of your dreams start waking up on the right side of the bed gets an percent off any purchase mattress today. Casper Dot Com and use code cozy. That's Casper Dot com code cozy for ten percent off terms and conditions apply casper dot com slash terror. Don't forget you can hear more of myself than Anna to weekdays starting at ten eastern on. ESPN RADIO ON ESPN news. ESPN radio is presented by Progressive Insurance Small Business Protection for more than vehicles with insurance expertise to keep your company moving forward more progressive commercial dot com. Dinner allows you to join us in just a second here on the Shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sportscenter. Update Astros owner. Jim Crane says the Astros players will apologize. They're all on the sign stealing controversy that saw their manager manager and general manager fired. What if they don't want? Based on the same controversy the a Los Angeles City Council unanimously approved a resolution urging Major League baseball to strip both the Astros on the red SOx of their most recent World World Series Championships and award them to the dodgers funny really and finally the planet Venus rotates so slowly that you will be able to watch a sunset forever just by walking towards it. Nice prices that for all the latest headlines and information tune the sportscenter on ESPN radio all throughout the day. So we've got a lot of questions for are Dan Orlovsky but I need to play that sound That to me is just beautiful. Sports arguments sound. Where on the set of get up? We've got But it was a sportscenter. Sportscenter on the set of sportscenter are Lobski and Stephen a Smith are going back and forth and I need to hear from our Lobski who the other voice was it. Sounds like someone someone else telling Stephen a Smith to get. Laws are a weapons. The reason why Patrick Mahomes is so great of course it is. I'm looking at a guy like Patrick Mahomes. And I'm I'm saying excuse me I'm not denying the fact that you are great the flip side to it as that is great as you look. It has also helped because unlike basketball. You can't just put the ball in the hole. You Patrick Mahomes. You need those brothers to get open. You need to run the right route. You need them to be as effective as they've been and I'm telling you this. These brothers are elite and that helps along the way now. Do I think the Alex Smith could have gone to the Super Bowl this year with that crew. Yes I just thought to. Stephen Jess Sadiku out case Orlowski. Was that when you're screaming. They were down twenty four. Nothing was that a plaintiff. Cry of desperate wailing. Yeah that sounded like one of my kids talking to me like when I'd say no you can't play Mario No that was me down. Twenty four nothing that was. I'm in your yup get lost. The Stephen A. This because that comment that he made was total recklessness. Stephen I heard you hopefully not If you heard me if you've heard me I might not be employed morning bite. Yes yes so I think the shouting overmatched. The the get lost. This common actually swivelled my chair and was the one who got lost from the table as I said how. How do you feel about get lost as an insult? I really feel like you're refining a lost. I'll start there with get lost. Well you know. I'm a believer that like have you say something that is really really non intelligence gents. I've probably done it in my past that you need to go somewhere else outside of that conversation. So it's like the it's like the Stuart Scott thing like you you ain't gotta go home but you gotta get the blink here. You've got to get lost if you're going to say something crazy like that Dan. I think found my show after. Get up I mean I am GonNa Pitches. It just shows that I host called get lost right now. You Get up get laws. Can you explain to us. In Layman's terms. Please explain to the audience. What the hell the forty niners are doing that? No one can figure out that they can throw that game. Plan out out there and a bunch of guys that before the season were pretty disposable. How this explain how yes? So first of all offensively. I need to everyone to understand that. Kyle Shanahan actually nerd like. He has a nerd when it comes to understanding football in the sense of Space in math and he realizes that he can distort the space on the football field by the way of numbers by utilizing being numbers. The advantage right. You start to play. And there's only fifty three and a third side to side on a football field and that's going to be the same every single play and then there's only eleven guys for you and eleven guys for them so where you put your eleven guys then dictate where the defense then has to put their eleven guys and so he can create create this space even though it's the same every snap just by moving people around. And then he takes it and goes. He's the best at gaming a numbers. I imagine this the ball is on the right hash now notoriously. NFL If the ball was on the right hash got way more field to the less than you do to to the right. And so normally coaches for a long time to put their numbers advantage. They put like five or six guys took a left side of the field because they're commonsense told them well that's the most host space. Let me put on my guys over there. COW GOES in reverse. He puts more numbers into the short side of the field to the less area. And then he attacks all all the field that he has left because he knows more guys to the the short side of the field and the defense is GonNa put more guys to the short field. Then they have more space to cocker with bless people and it's a huge advantage for them. So that's how they do it off sensitively and defense all all. I was interested in the offense because they've got special players players on defense but on offense so explain to me what you just explained. Why isn't everyone doing that? Well I kind of an analogy. I use Dana's it's like. Listen I can go on Youtube right now and I can type in on youtube like how to dance and I could watch a good Jillian videos and how to dance reality Dude is. I'm six food five at two hundred and ten white dude with no rhythm and so I can watch the videos I want. I'm not going to be able to dance. And so all these coaches can watch all. These plays as much as they want. But they're not going to know how to teach it and they're not going to know how to tell. Hey wide receiver if this defender does this well then you have to adjust to do that to continue. Continue to create this space. So you see some coaches try to do it. I think the reality is this couch. Grew up in the. NFL Macau's been around the NFL and play calling for thirty years. And so all those rats that he had watching his dad standing on the sidelines standing around and being in rooms. Those things are all also like nuggets that he's acquired over time and so It is just. It's creative kind of beautiful mind. He has that he looks at it. Totally in a number. Ah A game of math rather than you know. Copy and paste of a play if he's the best who second and third best. Well play caller wise. Like like Sean mcvay is is is probably two three Sean Payton Or Josh mcdaniels up there five. Indy read those God's role in kind of a very very close group together. So what is happening. Gots has been watching a video here of Kyle Shanahan. He is saying before four play telling the referee. Hey they're going to hold kittle here and then they get the call for holding kettle there. What's happening there? Well Kyle knows. Okay I'M GONNA call this plane. He knows that he's taught. George biddle against this defense right if the defender lines up on you on this to get open. I want you to do this now again. And I told you guys creating space. He takes Kiddo split in widen him out a little bit more from the tackle on purpose he tells him to. Why a little bit more from the offensive tackle? Now when you do that you're creating space to the inside to the ball and so the defender always gets old. Hey manifests guy. Why didn't you split? He's trying to give himself. So if more room to go inside Kyle again knows that. So Kyle told Kitto. Why didn't you split? And then go inside. Get the defender to think he's now won and you get him going inside and then breakout. He's going to have no option to other get beat or hold you and so it is a very strategic way a very smart way running and Kyle sees the defender lineup and that's why it goes their physical. Listen Man. This is exactly what's going to happen. He's GonNa win or that got can't he's GonNa hold them because he can't get beat outside outside. And that's exactly what happens on that. XS And os man. I fall in love with our lives just a couple of mentions talking XS and Os and audible twenty any to Dan Now this I believe this is all great everything he's saying. I also believe that edge. NFL matchup is no longer aired. By what got it is because I are lots. I don't see a lot of people doing what you're doing here. I know I know football. Outsiders and I know some. I don't see a lot on broadcast television. Am I wrong. No there's not a ton of it I think that there's a a growing craving for it. I mean the reality is this. I stand here today and I have a the big reason why I have. My job is because I did this stuff on twitter and then it grew into an opportunity at the big network in the world sports wise. So there's a massive craving craving for it and there's a massive craving. This is the most popular sport in the world and so when you can tell people not what is happening but why it's happening well then one people think they're smarter and so they are so then they can get a better argument in to you. You're more into it. You're more into watching the game for something that that you consent I can. I know what's going to happen so then I could tell my boys. Whoever I'm kicking it with like I told you that was going to happen? Yes or no Patrick. Mahomes in terms of skill level is the best quarterback ever. Yes best quarterback ever Patrick Mahomes has no flaw to his game and the reality geology. Is this as talented as he is physically. He's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen. Aaron Rodgers. Was that human keys. Brain is just as you. I like people need to get people to understand like when we talk about patch mahomes in him running around a lot of times quarterbacks run around or moving the pocket because we have to its survival. We have to move because pressure or someone did our face. We can't see we have to move. Patrick mahomes often moves just because he wants to and just because he knows if I move then those defenders have to move as well. It's a different way of him using his eyes as a weapon to move people he just uses his movement as it is for as well and so yes. He's the most talented effort to play. He Might WanNa put a ring on that finger. Is there any. Is there anyone on who comes close to looking people off the way that he does and I know plenty of guys do it but as well as he does it You know Rogers Rogers has been great. But that Steve Young Israeli like the originator up to no look pass at least to my knowledge. Steve Young used to do it all the time right now right now. Patrick Mahomes is a runaway leader. In that regard as far as looking people are Lobski. Thank you sir for the insight. We appreciate it. Thank you Dan. I if you're a facility manager sure you know your job can get increasingly difficult without the help you need. Let Grainger give you the help you need by finding the help you need. Tell Them Stu guy running your business. The twenty four seven three hundred sixty five day a year job every problem. Every solution is up to you when a problem arises. And you need a solution. Grainger's got your back whether a unique critical items fast. somethings working like it. Should you just can't find exactly what you're looking for. Rangers ready to help. Because you don't stop neither do they. Grainger's Grainger's twenty four seven customer support sourcing specialists in same day. Pick up and delivery options. Don't forget about their on demand products and technical expertise. Whatever every you need whenever you need it rangers got your back? CALL CLICK GRAINGER DOT COM or stop by a branch grainger for the ones who get it done. Don't forget you can hear more of my sons Dan and to weekdays starting at ten eastern on. ESPN RADIO ESPN news. mm-hmm strap it onto sit back and sandwich salad. Whatever ever me about eight minutes the buck in front of me on? ESPN radio is presented by progressive insurance guests. On the Dan Lebatardshow Joe Appear via the Shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sports interrupdate astros owner. Jim Crane says that the astros players will publicly apologize for their role in the signed unsealing controversy that saw their manager and general manager fired based on the same controversy the Los Angeles City Council aw unanimously approved a resolution urging Major League baseball to strip both the Astros and red sox of their most recent world series championships and a war then into the dodgers and finally back in nineteen eighty two. The Al Maeda family was saddened to learn that their red footed tortoise award is Manuela. A- gone missing. Their house was being renovated at the time so the family assumed that the tortoise had slipped out through a door left open the construction crew disappearing to the forest near their home but they couldn't have been more wrong. The True Fate of their loss pat remained a mystery for the next thirty years. They'll father passed away and the Omega children returned to help clean out his cluttered storage room. It turns out the father was somewhat of a hoarder so so the room was jam packed with things during the clean out. The family discovered Manuela. The Tortoise had managed to survive for three decades on her own. The family suspect she survived on termites which thanks to all that unwanted furniture were likely in abundance an amazing story crying. I mean a story of survival. I mean the dodgers all sung back in it. And that's where I thought you were going to go when I said that's amazing but instead you said Ed you were crying for some reason. Here's Kershaw shots. Don't they have anything better to do in. La City Council. This seems like a giant wastes taxpayer money sitting around and they're voting on anything. Better to do this is what they exist for. Council meeting exists at City Council so meaning to do things to get them reelected for the next city council they keep doing it for the rest of their lives and for the most part were dumb enough to believe a large. Just grandstanding. Sports Center brought to you by advance auto parts thick ahead advance at any time. I'm one of four. Batteries is about to fail free battery tests and free installation with any automotive battery. Purchase only at advance auto parts for all the ways headlines and information tune into sports center on. ESPN radio all throughout the day. So we get a couple of hall of famers. Yesterday you get Larry Walker is going into the hall of fame. It was was emotional whenever this kind of stuff happens it's pretty cool to see your favorite Player one of your favorite players dressed in spongebob shirt in his Is he fifty. And he's gotTa be fifty right Larry Walker of Asia and so when they get into the hall of fame. It's pretty cool. But I wanted to ask you guys this question because I really feel like our chief narcissist and self promoted. Greg Cody of the Miami Herald. Lost just a great opportunity to actually surely be a journalist who makes a statement or journalists to an anti would have gotten the look at me If he had declined to vote for for Derrick jeeter. Now if you're not familiar with Greg cody having a hall of fame vote. I used to have a hall of fame vote and then deadspin. Because I don't don't like the way. The hall of fame does things and because my votes were being ignored bonds and clemens still aren't being in the hall of fame as we do this arbitrary corral nonsense where we don't actually know who was using steroids. We don't know and there are a bunch of guys in the hall of fame who probably used steroids. It's but because a few guys were caught and the names were associated with it. Now you've got Barry Bonds and Roger Clements were indisputably indisputable Gary Sheffield Sheffield has gotten tainted by this. He's one of the Best I've ever seen. And he's gotten tainted by this sort of on. The periphery somewhere Gary Sheffield ought to be in the hall of fame. If for no other reason season than simply feared every time he got into a better spot and not fear fear by the third base coach and the basement is he gonna hit something so hard over here. I'd get hit in the forehead. I was a fan sitting in the stadium when he played for the Marlins I was fearful that the ball might everybody was everybody was and so put put that on the poll Guillermo Lebatardshow should Gary Sheffield screaming foul balls. Be in the hall of fame. A Fear Hall of fame sounds awesome. Who else would be there karake? Maybe here thinking baseball fell. Bob Gibson is a first ballot hall own absolutely. Yes Randy Johnson Randy. John's Unit Nolan. Sola Ryan Nolan Ryan Right Ryan would be in the Because he would hit batters and three hundred miles an hour the Ryan Express in the big unit heap heap. It's the grossest thing when you like feel yourself on just a lazy nickname like I know. My raw literally felt themselves to it is like it's him holding up his wrist on a jumper when he is pleased with himself just throwing crappy nickname after crappy. Frank Thomas this was also a pretty intimidating the big IRT filton silver. Aw Ivy now rich sexton acce- big sexy. Are you WANNA play this game. I love this head. Williams splendid splinter. Willie mays say. Hey kid hank Aaron advert. Hi Ron sake the win got it. You know what. Let me do me a favor. Seven eight six four five six or seven. Let's go ahead and play slot machines. God's here you guys want you WanNa do it this lazily. Let's do it this lace seventy six. I'm going to trump on lazy. I'm going to take all just spit a sports name. and Stu Gods and let's test his jackpot skills of doing crappy nicknames as he hits the same retired note he's been hitting fifteen straight year. Dennis Boyd Oil cat. Seven eight six four five six four eight three three seven. If you WANNA play this stupid game of Stugatz Bingo John. Candelaria the candyman our bosque. Oh Aw really. Here's one of my favorite player growing up really imagining yourself in the man. I know I know our our Rabovsky. No I'm not helping you the man and Gary No. Okay sorry yeah. I'm surprised that the slot machine is already short-circuiting. My wheelhouse wheelhouse Rabovsky. What year was that? It was the late seventies early. Eighty I guess I got the Williams and as so why Fredericks the bird very good. Mike Hargrove the human rain delay. Seven eight six four five six six four eight three seven. I WANNA get back to Greg. Cody really botching an opportunity. 'CAUSE JEETER didn't get one hundred percent of the vote but somebody in vote for him and it wasn't cody so once again he's left out in the cold uselessly. Getting nothing out of it didn't make a statement. Didn't do anything except turn in another ballard just like all the other G it's why are people so upset about this. He's a first ballot hall of Famer. Who cares that you can get one hundred percent of the vote who cares? He's a first ballot hall of Famer. He's in his rightful place. He is going to cooperstown. He's a first ballot hall of Famer. Mr November it's enough of tired of it and the fact that we have all of these right right Writers who are deciding who goes to the hall of fame we need to do this differently. I am telling you. These writers were trusting them with the hall of fame. When I eh mark mcgwire's lockout wise just end fans should have a say in it big Mac? Dan should have a say in this. They really should. I mean big MACs it right in his locker I mean right underneath the journalist. Is that no one right. Underneath their noses known did the thing and signed stealing cover the game for a living. No one knew that. Everyone's stealing sides but yet you're the people determining whether or not Barry Bonds gets into the hall of Fame mm-hmm Kabbage Jobs. Sorry serious why are they the people deciding this did you guys get it. Clear that mad dog Russo Sound They wouldn't clear that sound. I heard that there were some sound. That mad dog Russo gave it was just everyone could imagine it coming out of Stugatz his mouth when he got all upset about something that was miniscule. Barry Bonds doesn't have nicknames. Right I google did and they're all just play on steroids. There's the hormone king and the Sultan of shot Barry Bonds seven eight six four five six four eight three seven if you WANNA play this stupid game crappy nickname. Relax monty money money money your journalist man. You're great journalist. Do you not agree with what I just said. I'm more interested in the other. Part of this. Greg cody being terrible journalist boring journalists no no statements. He's willing to make. This would have been the spot on behalf of Miami. Make a statement with your vote. Where in journalism resum school? Do they teach you to troll athletes by not voting for them when they deserve to get into the holiday. Break the rules. But he's hanging on he's what's he hanging on to right get lost cody clank. If you value your family and possessions it might be a good idea for you to install blink cameras in around your home. Tell him got. Where do you need a security camera on your porch to help protect deliveries share healthy? Keep your family safe when you travel the lobbyists alerting you when the kids get home from school. Very important cameras motion activated when they detect something. They send an alert and a video clip to your blink smartphone APP and the link x t two features two way talk system started. Just seventy nine ninety nine. So where do you need. Blink cameras cameras visit blinkprotect dot com slash. And do it. Today it is blinkprotect dot com slash. Dan You're engulf Indie Donlevatar show on. ESPN radio today today on ESPN daily fans. We're not impressed when the Lakers named NBA veteran. Frank Vogel is head coach but the unflashy choice might be a perfect fit. Ken Vogel Keep Us. keep up his success and keep Lebron James Happy that's the important part that's ESPN's ESPN daily. With host Meena Calms presented by Dell Small Business Download subscribe and review. ESPN daily available. Wherever you enjoy your podcast yes happy fifty fifth birthday to Dj Jazzy? Jeff and happy birthday to him. I don't Oh care good lock. Why have you been wandering around today telling everyone you see cameramen people outside happy Z.? Day Why have you been doing that. You know it's it's Zion Williamson's first First game tonight and it airs on. ESPN and I'm excited. Because then if he turns out to be what everyone projects him. Am to be or projected him to be the next Lebron James the next faced the league. I'm excited to see that in. Its first game tonight and when you combine it with the fact that they had Brandon Ingram and Lonzo ball has played better. Andrew holiday appears to be a really really good player. I'm super are excited to see. And there is no limit to the amount of minutes that's ion complained and I I'm excited to see this guy play in his first NBA game. I mean if he's going to be the next Jordan. The next Lebron James Tonight is a big moment to see those guys in their first game or a Guy Like Zion in his first game. It's going to do a monster number this evening evening and I'm super excited to see how good he is if he's in good health if the foot is okay and if he blends in well with those guys because if he is good. I'm telling you they're going to be really really good for a really long dawn. Weren't you saying like two weeks ago. They should shut them down for the entire season and not play him at all. I did say that yes death. That was then. This is now belly and Z.. And I'm excited for day. He's not excited for your. I'm not excited for is your general. What happens is and you guys? You'll notice this as a long observer of the Stugatz in its natural state. What happens is if you open the one portal of nicknames? Hey Hey WanNa show off your nicknames. All of a sudden you get super serious sports guy and you see the show that Stugatz secretly actually wants to do which is to talk about Zion Williamson for three hour. I can't allow even a little bit of nicknamed talk because this is what happened. He has been super serious sports. I I like it. Just he got in there with Zion Williamson enthusiasm and Mike. Is he going to watch. The game will even nine thirty. That's a stupid question. Why would you guys let me know house either? Everyone on twitter now that AH celebrating the day to be able to do that. I'll be catching some Z's Philippa you're on with STU gods the wheel of Gods nicknames. Go ahead for leaping first off Very Happy Z.. Data everyone got Charlie Whitehurst clipboard. Jesus Mike AAC. You're on with Stugotz. Go ahead Mike Robert Ory. They chop up. Jimmy you're on. ESPN radio with Stugatz. Go ahead Andress Galarraga the big cat. LemMe showing it now. Lenny wait till you see the segment we get. It's gotta be breaking bringing down film next Lenny. You're on with STU gods go leaning on. ESPN radio go ahead. Lending pirates virus right fielder. Dave Parker the Cobra Chad. You're on with Stugatz. Go ahead. Chad should have done this. One last the eight getting it Bob Feller heater from van meter. Well my from all her was taken. You Ain't getting it with Bob. Feller pitched in nineteen ten. Kim when did Bob Feller less pitch again. Mike show that wants to do they heater meter Mordecai Brown around. There's a lot going on here He last pitch okay. What was the Mordecai Brown? Fingers just gave a finger you WANNA test them or not it. Was this up people. Call Them Bullet Bob. But I'm telling you the heater for van meter and Bob Feller was a heck of a picture he really all time greats. Yes at adds up to undergo Rapid Robert. Don't forget you can hear more of my sons Dan and as to weekdays starting at ten eastern on. ESPN RADIO ON ESPN news. The SPN radio is presented by progressive insurance guests. On the Dan. lebatardshow appear via the Shell Pennzoil performance. Line Annabel Sanchez. Expected expected to be in studio with us. Here here's your sportscenter. Update the Atlanta Braves have signed Marcella soon to a one year. Eighteen million dollar deal. Will this free agency update is brought to you by lengthy and build your winning team today. Go to linked in dot com slash sports Australian Open Cocoa Golf came back to defeat. Defeat Serena Curse Sta. She will advance to the third round for a Grand Slam rematch against Naomi. Osaka Gray match and finally the peanut is not a nuts is actually a lagoon false advertising. Where do you need a security camera on your porch to help protect protect deliveries? Sure helping keep your family safe when you travel absolutely alerting you and the kids get home from school. You Bet where do you. You need. Blink security cameras visit blinkprotect dot com slash Dan for all the ways headlines and information tune into sports center on. ESPN radio all throughout the day. I wonder what the rules are on baseball players. Talking about this cheating stuff. Annabel Sanchez is going to be coming in here to celebrate a championship dip a championship over the cheating. Astros is he going to be required to stay silent on that subject. I will ask him those questions among others. I have been to one baseball. Game with my father in the last decade Stugatz why and it was the the NFL Sanchez. No hitter. Who faked to give one for the MARLINS? We went for his birthday one year and we went there and he threw a no hitter and there had to would be like twelve people there because it was in the former football stadium I was would have been late in the year. I suppose so. He's going to be up here shortly. But you've you've seen that Pedro Martinez to God's is calling each going down the path of Guillermo back there where he's calling the whistle blower Mike Fires. He's calling him. I'm a bad teammate. Now saying that that is a guy he would never Trust again I think the problem with Mike Fires for a lot of people is is Mike. Fires was one of the guys who benefited and got a world series ring from whatever was going on and did not blow the whistle while it was going on decided to blow the whistle after he was no longer a member of the Houston Astros. And that just doesn't sit well with a lot of people really do it as a member of the Astros can you. I mean you can't you can't really if you really care about it and care about the rule and care about the fact that someone is breaking the time to do it is when your cable. Why can't we both though you care about it and you also care about your job and the daily environment that you work in like that? That is the thing that prohibits whistle blowers from whistle blowing. It's what comes was with this sort of thing. Do you think Mike. Fires refers himself as a world series. Champion is the world series champion. Do you refuse the Astra's you you think. He considers himself having won a world series so if he did it by cheating and it bothers him so much he should not be walking around with a world series ring and saying hey we won the world series and if it bothered him so much it's like hey we're a good team but we're doing this the wrong way you do it when you're with a t and not the second you leave the team. I'm sure there are people on that team. That were not cool with what they were doing. Who would do that? Like what is asking for their. Who in the world would actually do what you're suggesting testing which is to be in the middle of team? You're collecting your paycheck in your work place to go and volunteer to somebody. Hey we're all cheating my hitters earl cheating like what are you even asking for their would do it. Probably most people wouldn't do it. I know one guy who definitely would not and that's Mike fires but I think none of them would. When when have you ever ever heard such a thing? When have you ever heard somebody in athletics? Come out and say hey. My teammates are cheaters. This is how they cheated like when you're asking for something. Something feels totally unreasonable there. I know Dan if you really actually truly care about what it is that you were doing winning the wrong way. You say it when you're there you try to stop it when you're there you don't say after the fact you don't say the second you leave that team and your teammates the team that you want world series with that certainly not when you say it. I mean that's when people are getting it upset you say when you're a member of the astros the Astros get upset. You say once you leave the Astros. Everyone's upset put put that sharp looking man puts them head on. He's he looks like he's smells a smells very good he He smells like a champion. I'm pretty sure. And so now he he is in a chair. The chair of Chris Cody where you can find cheese. That's been under the desk for eighteen months holiday cheese from about eighteen months ago. I think we have someone. That's threatening Jason Taylor seat atop the throne of best smelling guests. How do I know that he smells good from over here here? This is amazing. Because I'm in a soundproof room. Annabel Sanchez what are you wearing. Sir You are making everyone around here. Faint shower I shower today. That's why I was mad that the WIG. That's what he doesn't smell good though he feels great telling and he just said it's Wednesday basically once. Why do I smell great? Because it's a weekend we're happy to have you hear congratulations on the championship Congratulations on fifteen seasons in the big leagues if If I'd come to you and said at at the beginning of your career. Hey what's it gonNA look like Have you exceeded your expectations. Have you fallen short of whatever it is. Your dreams are because that's a pretty good career you've put together her since I was a keen our with planning to play until our forty years old but a Sui make a big lease noisier beat on that label around now. I'm really close to forty but I don't know if I make their noise because I can because I don't I don't I can pitch in but it's sometime. Nobody is so tired at this point but I feel really good to hear your feel I feel like You WanNa talk about the dirty cheating astros. Are you not allowed to talk about the dirty cheat Astros. Ma Is is now my point my point. I'm no part of that team. Okay okay go defeated the cheaters. Do you guys call each other. We defeated the JEETER's they know who to rings widow. We don't know anything about it. Those things is more like you know like every music come on 'em between us and on the teen within. We didn't know anything about it so everything that is command is a I know to send you guys know but I don't know more like like a deeper the everybody no okay so you have no inside information you just know that you beat the dirty cheaters I can. I can say that without any reservation. I'm curious here. Do we want to continue playing this nickname game. Just all around Annabel Sanchez. Seven eight six four five six four eight three seven is the telephone number number. We're GONNA continue here with Annabel Sanchez in In just a second we also have to update the polls as well if you WANNA get in here with those crappy nickname. I can't stop looking at Annabelle. Abell feel uncomfortable. Just I mean he is the most handsome man to ever walk into the studio. Well wait a minute dietrich. Hold on a second my wife year my wife year track acquisition here a billy putting dietrich up on the computer and Shirtless Dietrich and see if you can show some people yeah. I can't come out with that way. Waist you'll give a couple of times and it's not like that so if I if I got to -tunities guy like a walk off homer believe I mean just call her my my my chair and nobody's going to remove these show aim free time for some ads. That's one eight hundred. Flowers specializes and roses special. Valentine's Day deal going on right. Now if you want. Want your significant other to look at you the way that Derek Dietrich was just looked at by everyone in the shipping container. This is the number to call tell them to got the right now when you order a dozen multicolored roses for just twenty nine ninety nine one eight hundred flowers. We'll give you another dozen plus a vase absolutely free. That's forty percent off. The original price is forty percents off this gorgeous bouquet of two dozen roses in a rainbow of colors. They perfect surprise guaranteed to impress. Remember one one. Eight hundred flowers is here for all your upcoming Valentine's needs a dozen multicolored roses for just twenty nine ninety nine plus another dozen. NFL As for free. Is it amazing offer but you have to hurry do it now guys take care of Your Business Right now do today when it comes to impressing her Valentine's sometimes day trust the Rose Authority one eight hundred flowers dot com order a dozen multicolored roses plus an extra bouquet in vase for just twenty nine point nine nine. It's simple go to one. Eight hundred flowers. Lauer's dot com click the radio icon enter code. Dan Do today and save only at one. Eight hundred flowers dot com code. Dan Give me more of the Dan Le Batard show on. Espn van radio. Stay cozy with a casper mattress. Use Code goes EAH CASPER. Dot Com for ten percent off terms conditions. APPLY SEE CASPER DOT com slash terms Annabel Sanchez. Given straight talk is brought to you by straight talk wireless. Everything relies only at Walmart stugatz going to update the polls here in a second can at lebatardshow on twitter shipping container was not lying the center. This man is It's very masculine. It's very strong. He smells like a champion. And that is a that is a very expensive Cologne. You're wearing correct that is not a cheap cologne. You're wearing. It's everything it's the Cologne own. It's the good looks. It's the blue suit with a blue jacket different shade of blue. I mean just fantastic so on the staff that you're on though. Do you do like walk past you and just want to remind you all the time. Okay we do it throwing ninety eight. We do all it ninety nine. We throw a hundred hundred. Even though Animal Sanchez surprising arm strength reside you met shares in Strasbourg. That's what I miss my apology. You're do they make fun of you because of how hard they throw versus the way that you you've got a couple of different changeups right now at the funny part of this is they love change you know number were harder throw role they always talking about my change. They WANNA throw they WANNA know how I separate speed between the change because I got a Probably late three type of changer. So because it's different speeds so they always talk about that. Never talk about the phosphor. I think For me my husband is because I got pretty good location with those guys. They they had unbelievable amount at Lebatardshow on twitter. Do you need to see it before you flush. That's from yesterday. Yeah I mean we have so many votes on this. How many votes on this Sixteen thousand five hundred votes right now all right and how do you need to see it before you flush. It's a very very important question. See Oh no see okay. Very good about seventy eight percent of the audience agrees with you need to see it before they well well. Let's just do the polls with NFL Sanchez. Then instead of talking changeups what do you have. There was playing a chorus field in the nineties greater advantage than steroids. That's a good question. Question was Animal Sanchez playing at chorus field in nineteen ninety s a greater advantage than steroid. Yes or no Mike then No Larry Walker Eighty three percent of the audience. Said yes. uh-huh are you flabbergasted to the brink of Death Patrick Mahomes and Peyton manning the same forty time at the NFL combine. That's crazy easy. Anybody would tell you that that's crazy. Everyone thinks that see. You're not say ninety. Three percent of the audience said see where Where is it that you have your championship photos your championship memorabilia? What kind of stuff do you have that you kept from winning the championship this year? I got A COUPLA staffroom the I got the Jersey there. They had the Ohio wearing on the after we won the there were serious The one that we did and the carbon was is an amazing was unbelievable. Had Never See something like that before. And he's something that you WanNa leave us when you gotTa Win. There were serious Got My LAWF- off my full uniform spike. Everything that are that are that are safe for an also. I got my my tag name on the from the on the house. Yeah I ha- also die in you guys. You guys were happy to do that to Bryce Harper. Right you're happy a little bit happy. The team was a little bit happy to be able they do that after. Bryce Harper left. You know that's that's crazy. Because I never played within I never play with With a brace heartburn in a lot of things that are here inside the clue how about Oh he is the those light lacking you know inside a clue how I think nobody Alica really bad opinion of our hint But I don't know what's going over the fence. Yeah I don't know what the left for more money again. You guys be honest with him and he has absorb the national make his because we wanted to where sears that's very true or false. bryce Harper was rooting against guys in that series true or false according according true true true lebatardshow on winners go ahead. Did you know the bubble for a blue whale as large enough contain a horse okay. Who could have known that the part bubble for a blue whale on they don't bail? It's as big. Here's a horse. Did you know that antebellum no eighty eight percent of the audience that no I got a scroll up here. Is the dream having a a cheeseburger then going to bed. All right your dream Annabel Sanchez avid cheeseburger. And just go to bed. Yes or no yes. Seventy A and don't get any bound on my on my way. Seventy eight percent of the audience said yes more inexplicable that you could. You never find one of your Tupperware lades or that. One of your socks is missing from the Dryer. Good more to you Annabel. Sanchez ballooned into sucks the stocks frustrating. It is I don't know where they're going. But you put very strange strange. Fifty eight percent of the audience audience said the missing sock. I got to scroll up. GimMe a guy that you have faced the best hitter than Annabel. Sanchez would say that. He has ever seen the guy that I think Beltran Kylo Khatanga one of the amazing here. That cheater dirty Carlos Beltran anything at her face. I face in law where he was with the San Luis because we played We on the same feel on the Jupiter so I faced a lot of this guy. And he's unbelievable heard heater Give me a guy who locates better than you a guy who when you're when you're watching him pitch you say that guy is better at his mastery of location than I am Right now a person you can take from the past all Bass Greg Greg Man. That's this guy putting yourself that's pretty. It's not just the best ever locate. The thing is is more than a guy that I follow him when I was on On the minorly in biggest ally for in on tinder that I learned from this guy. He's a how you throw Pece Look Bowl and finished shrine Lucas Friday. Finish a ball. That's a key for any teacher to yeah it's any secret you can make To the to decatur to get out of balance most of the time you said the cheater right. You're talking about the Astros there. What what is worse? Swinging a stool with menace or federal wiretaps Annabel. Thank you for being with us. We're out of time here. You can give them the answer there. sixty eighty four percent of the audience. At wiretaps you you smell delicious. You really are. You'RE YOU'RE A world champion Annabel. We appreciate your time. Thank you thank you very. I'm watching. You can listen to the Dan Lebatardshow with the stugatz then to one eastern on E._S._p._N.. Radio and you can wash on E._S._p._N. News.

Dan ESPN Patrick Mahomes Houston Astros football basketball Kansas NFL Mike Lebatardshow Seth Greenberg twitter Stugatz Guillermo Lebatardshow Shell Pennzoil Kyle Shanahan J. J. Watt America
Some C-Lo With Your Morning Coffee

Boomer & Gio

19:36 min | 1 year ago

Some C-Lo With Your Morning Coffee

"Punch tell the folks that you're talking about Joe. Judge is going to end up hiring Freddie Kitchens be the tight ends coach for the New York giants now pretty kitchen test coach coach pretty much every position on the offensive side of the football and he was very successful tight ends coach for the Arizona Cardinals he actually spent. I was looking back at his UH career resume. He spent ten years with the Arizona Organization. Five years under wizened hunt when he was the head coach now almost won the super bowl. Yeah and then. Five years under Bruce Arians had one of the best offenses in football yet. So he had Kurt Warner in. Carson Palmer is the quarterbacks through those throws times is there so you are hiring a position coach here. I don't care if he was a head coach he wasn't Desi shouldn't have been the head coach of the The Cleveland Browns. But hiring this this guy for your staff along with Jason Garrett and everything else and Bret Bielema as on the defensive side. There's a lot of. Let's put it this way. There is a a lot of experience. The coaching staff there is and bill is another one that he was in a head coach in the NFL but of course he was a head coach in college and did have some success. Wisconsin then went down to Arkansas Arkansas and he was just what the Patriots so I do like that. I mean Freddie Kitchens. We know is just not cut out to be a head coach even when he was a position coach in an offensive coordinator cordinator Baker Mayfield. Thought the guy was an idiot But here he is as tight end coach and I believe that Joe Judge wouldn't bring him in no nonsense Joe. Judge isn't gonNA bring bring in their relationship goes way back to Mississippi state YEP and Freddie Kitchens was ahead of Joe Judge terms obviously of age and everything else Joe. Judge was a graduate twit assistant when Freddie Kitchens was there and so there's a relationship there and you do get a lot of this in the NFL. There's a lot of incestuous hiring of friends and people let you know and people that you'd like to think that you trust and that the US League when you hire ex head coaches the come in you gotTa make sure that the right personality that are not going to undercut the younger head coach. Yeah and I'd like to think that the personalities of Freddie kitchen in the relationship with Joe Judge then of course Jason Gary not going to do that. They're going to. They're going to support the young coach and they're going to hopefully bring out the best in their offense in the the the quarterback. Well you'd love to see that type of experience around a guy that has no experience and I think that's that is really the story here with this staff is. He's not afraid to bring in guys like that and surround himself itself saying. I don't know everything right now. These guys can help me out so it's an interesting staff. That's for sure very interesting. Hey see what's going on. Good morning how are you guys doing all right. Right wonderful Let's get this out all right today. yeah no no bandages. No bandits very good but it's early all right between now and ten o'clock Komo whereas it on my couple my fingers ruin. Yeah so he was wondering about why had abandoned John last week while you were down in Miami and I reminded him for the third third time on. I keep forgetting keep forgetting this time. I didn't know you had until just now. There's a lot of illnesses that he comes. I mean the timing timing your hacking hacking cough croup that that was really amazing. Let me tell you something to talk about hacking my poor wife for about a month now has had some kind of really i. I haven't gotten sick. My son's having gotten sick I don't know what she's dealing with. Have you run out of empathy now and are you annoyed our. You're like all right enough with the coughing. Go bad for you for two weeks. I feel terrible for her. It's frustrating nasty virus. I don't think it's an allergy. But it is what it is one of those. I mean she's been to the doctor. They can't find anything wrong with their radio when it gets this cold. It's very dry. Yes so do you have a humidifier cranking the humidifier right next to our bed. Okay every night for the last week and a half thinking about getting is one of those molecules. Ever see those things now. They're like an air purifying system because there's just so much garbage they just flies flies around. You don't have the windows open your house and it's just a dust and get one for an here. That'd be great too. It's like a air purifier. PERF REF purifying system in here. We put and the chair. I need a chair to chair yet. No I thought you were working out with the higher ups said Yes. Yeah I was at a high level meeting the other day about my chair. Now we're going to have a high level meeting about our air purifying system to ask a higher up to get a new chair. Yeah yeah that's the appropriate thing to do you just order it enhanced somebody to bill. You have to go through proper protocols that's right can't just be running around roses. What year thirteen for? You now decided now that you need a new chair. Well we got new chairs but the chair that I got kept like this cuisine. Yeah the quicksand. Alice suppose get me a chair and he hasn't gotten it yet. Okay known and we need a credit card or something. How is is our producer? Caretaker of this show is all about US Elaine fried money but I can't front the Money WanNa really bougie chair. I bet no. That's not true. I just want a good solid chair and I told you I would take the same one that we had as long as it was. You know I get an and engineering and here fix it. Gets Steve labral. He'll fix it. Two things. One is far as the cost of this chair. When you were looking at chairs you did say when you look to one? This looks good. Would but it's not expensive enough. Say Yes you said. This one looks good but it's not expensive enough about right. It can't be good while I was looking on Amazon and the other thing was I was in this high level meeting with you about the chair and the way that it was left was you. Tell me what what you want and then I'll go get it for you. So that's the way the high level me I can Allenton is but we have doesn't like. WB Mason Sully shares. Just call them they say call hole us for everything. Wb Mason get me a chair pay for paper stuff for everybody. Credit Card doesn't name credit card writing Garner rich. Well there. There is a single company credit card. I believe yes who is in charge of that one not us well. Do you think guess like come out. I put this on the company. Okay still have the company called. It's part of the deal. I know there was a time where we're all getting Hotel rooms I think it was related to me. We'll just put it on the company Pretty Car Company car out there so there is a company card. Find out where the company called me. He doesn't use Asan here he was strip find. Ride out what what's going on. He doesn't have either. I think someone just tells him upside down and shook company car stolen Charges now could you send me a link to the chair. You like. 'cause you gotta get the perfect chair that you want right no doubt I will order the incorrect chair. This'll succumb one of those things. He'll get you the chair. And then it'll become his job to wheel it in and out of the studio every day. I don't mind with his own share every every every day yes studio is going to be used frame. But but it's it's fine because I'm a team player. Somebody needs to use the studio no matter who it is yes they can use the studio. It's all good Yeah I mean yesterday Evans in here with a couple of muppets record nets podcast and then and then You had mike in here doing his show sitting in your chair. Mike was in here. Yeah might be day studio. I didn't think it was ever coming back here again. Yeah apparently so. Yesterday I find out that that Evan just decided to move into Mike's Office to just like slowly every day was is putting more and more of his starts right like you know one day. It's the Spencer Dinwiddie bobble head. And then the next day. It's an islander sweatshirt so he's thinking it's not coming back irving fat head. Coach doesn't need to be a fancy car serving serving ice pack on it. They gave out the other day so so he just moves in there yesterday. He's here early and he's counties hall of fame ballots at Wfan Hall of fame ballot. Alex and I said to him what happens if Mike comes back. Then what are you going to do is a gamma running a little bit of a risk with that. I think I don't think okay. Wait a minute timeout. Hold on for second. Yeah so evidence now the afternoon drive host right and yet his own office wanting in an old off squatting in somebody's office so this is creating another office problem around here. Yeah it did yesterday. Didn't seem like a problem until all of a sudden here comes Mike. Okay and then what happened is here for about eight hours yesterday body Slam. Apparently he he goes into what used to be his office and it was reported to me that he looked solve Evans crap and said what the F.. Ah But then later on. They had a conversation he said it's all right here a lot. They want you to get the office. The the new Mike Right sure now. What's Joe Doing? I think that he doesn't really you know Joe's a nomad that he does not settle at one time and right now you can't. Can you get the whole hip thing going on. And he's gotTa stay walking's always on the move right so he'll be back there for a little bit you tell them a story and then gets up and he moves around and then he comes back back in the meets a Muffin. And he's somewhere else and he's in the bathroom so he doesn't really need an office so he you know he and summers will still no no no. I think he'll. He'll be in that one with Evan. But it's really it's really w Evans thing now. So so yeah all right. Well you've got an update four so let's get this out of the way. The man himself there jeeter fresh off being elected into baseball's balls hall of fame not upset that he'd enjoyed teammate. Barry Rivera as the only unanimous select. I mean I could care less to be quite honest with you. I mean it takes a lot of votes to get into the hall. Defame that many people to all agree is pretty difficult to do jeeter on yes last night in that one dissenter remains nameless for now jeeter on three hundred ninety ninety. Six of the three hundred ninety. Seven ballots cast ninety nine point seven percent second. Highest percentage all time slightly ahead of Ken Griffey Junior and as we've come to expect from jeeter or he had all the right things to say. This is something that I think. When you start off your career you never thinking about the hall of fame? I mean this is the highest honor that can be given to any individual plays plays this game. He made no assumptions. Even though it was clear he would be a shoo in on his first bow. I've never looked at it that way because this is something that's very difficult. You talking about one percent of the players that that have ever played this game. Get into the hall of fame so It's very humbling. And even though he's now running the Marlins and perhaps the best of terms with certain people in the Yankees Organization thankful for his career and pinched or having the opportunity to play twenty years at the major league level with this organization. So you think the entire Steinbrenner family the fans in New York. I mean they're the the ones who challenged me something that I didn't realize come on. Now what do you mean come on. There's been public stories written about it. The guy he's barely been back to Yankee stadium since his running another ball. I understand that I understand the so i. I didn't understand so you. What you said is that he has and maybe not on the best of terms with certain members of the Yankees Organization like I don't like to have a member that you can specifically point to go down that I'd like Geno come on? Yeah I WanNa know what stories have been written. Tell me what if you're right about did he and Brian Cashman. Not have disagreements when he was with the Yankees as far as his contract went. Yes they did okay. So that's the guy so he didn't say hates cash very nice things to say about him in any team issued statements yesterday. It's looks like says they kept jeeter around just like they kept Marriott at Marianne Hanno around just to give him that last year. You know Marianna was coming off. An injury was supposed to be his last year and they came back so I think they treated their players exception. Where did I say that? They didn't treat them well. And sometimes you gotta just let guys go with. The end is the end. Where did I say that entreat him while I don't know but you just said that he had problems with with the acknowledge said maybe not on the best of terms but certain say he has problems with the Yankees Organization? You can listen on the best attorney. I'm sure they're all sink. Whom by come July twenty-six when he's up there giving this speech cooperstown personally upset not at arc? JETER is not come back to Yankee. Stadium doesn't bother. You know your Janke van nor in order to get no of course not you want to find out who that person is. I really don't care very honestly I really don't care I'm not just saying let's let's say let's say it comes out and you find out who it is right and let's say it's a a writer up in Boston. I won't be surprised. Who Cares there you go I mean I it is? I would hope that if this person's name comes out they'll provide some sort of reasoning and then we'll see what they have to say right. I mean there's some last year it was cool that Barry Otto was is the first but look it was well documented. Yesterday people looking into the past. How many of these legend all time greats not only didn't get one hundred percent but didn't even get in on their first? I write checks third ballot. So this whole the whole Rick Nolan Ryan Right. I mean God. They're all above ninety five percent and they should be eh but if they can't make every ballot and who the hell is right. It's it's not. I don't that's who handled it as you would expect. He did yesterday the clip that we just played So when they do get up there to cooperstown he'll have Larry Walker alongside him walker getting in by six votes in his final year of eligibility even tweeted yesterday afternoon that he expected that come up just short of a lack of numbers in my head and was prepared for no call and and then the opposite happened. And that call comes and all of a sudden and you can't breathe show. You guys saw the video. Why the spun by we haven't gotten to the bottom of that? I I understand when guys. So he's got something. He's like a racing raced race. Or something maybe outracing his car or something but there's no sponsors or anything on there it literally. SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS VIACOM CBS. support. That problem sure is GonNa make a some sort of appearance at Super Bowl fifty five next year on CBS. Now that we're one company buy Viacom. CBS IS GONNA be a lot of cross promotions and stuff going on with all the different networks in early halftime show post Malone and then uh-huh why not is right say other notable results curt schilling the next closest to induction twenty votes. Shy that seventy five percent threshold his eighth year on the ballot. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens also in year eight both just cracked the sixty percent. Mark a couple of other baseball notes for the braves and Marcel Zona Green a one year eighteen million into our deal and other. NFL team gets better as we await. The mets selection for their next manager has that search continues. In though. We're supposed to hear something about it. Perhaps some point this week College College hoops at Twenty one point win for third rank Kansas over Kansas State. Marred by this massive brawl at the end of the game which spilled into the crowd actually a seating area for the disabled yet the players from both teams throwing punches Kansas Forward Silvio Sosa right in the middle of it his huge block of Kansas State Freshman to one Gordon and subsequent taunting set off the whole thing at one point he had sosa holding a chair over his head or a stool in the story is Ready to do something with that. Had it take it away. Here was Jayhawks head coach. Bill was an embarrassment. Commit Bhai on on on on our part for the role that we played in it and and You know I'll I'll there will be consequences that that I'm sure all announced tomorrow season now because they're fifteen and three. They're the third ranked team in college basketball. This could sure torpedo. Repeat their season or bring them together and take them all the way to a national championship. There's an assistant coach. I don't know his name but he stopped that Desouza from I'm swinging that stool at somebody's head and if that would have gone through if he would have hit somebody with that stole. This story would have been fifty times worse than it already. It's bad but if you right there guy got it the in the video on. CBS Sports Network. The assistant coach was able to knock it out of his hand. And then hold onto the guy and then and then he's hitting the coach coach coach hits. That guy's gotta be suspended right. I mean he's in the middle of this whole ongoing rolling. FBI investigation that they appealed. That's not going to be. They're not going to announce a decision until the off-season bill selves involved with that recruiting violations by towel who falls also obviously. That's his life so the guy should be kicked off the team. Never Wear Kansas uniform ever Maybe that happens. In that maybe torpedoes. Their season. Here was one. I'm from Kansas State. Head coach Bruce Weber just to get the other side of it also accepting. Some of the class was class. Disappointing that anything to happen at the end and now that's all that's all I can say. I throw my fault and basically try because Kansas is trying to run out the clock and I guess maybe he didn't make it clear to his kids to delay back so the freshman comes and steals. The ball tries to go on for a layup. Dissociate comes in with the big block and then he taunts the kid so I think Weber saying had we just backed off. None of this would've would've happened. Obviously you don't expect to Sosa taunt the kid and then things to just go haywire and another interesting thing about Bruce Weber. The Kansas State coach after the game. He had a red mark on his chin. Or I didn't see that and irresistible. Did you get hit during this thing in his response was when I get stressed I stuff pops up on my face interesting so I'm not buying that. No I'm thinking he probably got hit by A. I could see that I can see like bringing down high blotchy. She getting blotchy. Anybody get blotchy before getting LACI you blotchy. I don't know I don't believe that I've seen high strategy. This is a real real thing. Yeah sure high stress Blotchy. Yeah all right see something about Mary. All Elliott yes. Yeah he looked horrible talk one weirdest characters and all movies. Yes but he's hilarious. Okay fine I'll buy it. I'll buy it with the something about understand. You're saying I got ya one. NBA game last night. It quickly for you clippers topped the Mavericks won one. Oh seven you got Zion Williamson's debut tonight. Ya debut is the spurs should be quite the scene in New Orleans and you have the knicks hosting Lebron and the Lakers quickly. Because I know we're running out of time. The islanders did beat the Rangers at the garden. Four to two they went up three nothing not a good shots on goal. The puck luck goals as they were saying. Listen I I like to wear a team sport and it goes both ways playing fine timmy. PINERA missed the game upper body injury. He's out of the All Star game and Matt Bahr was benched in the third period. That game. It was yes. I'll tell you what they my men Matt had wide open net shot off more. I was doing anything. Let's go get a goal. I don't care what it comes. Get a goal all right.

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All Ball - Guest: NBA Draft Analyst Matt Babcock Discusses LaMelo Early NBA Impressions, Luka Garza, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs Evals

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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All Ball - Guest: NBA Draft Analyst Matt Babcock Discusses LaMelo Early NBA Impressions, Luka Garza, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs Evals

"Golly been this is the all ball. Podcast where a bunch of different paths that we go down during the hoops season Most times we talk but sometimes we talk other sports matter of fact i have a couple of friends who to join me a lie. T men's ought. Did you miss that one. An amazing life story. It's not ball does not also also always mean basketball. It just means kind of sport and though usually focus on basketball people's basketball stories or basketball analysis. I liked him. I like the. I like to get everybody's sports story if you will Today's guest is matt babcock. Now matt was a walk on zona. Their lead eighteen in was that. Oh five island. They lost that game. Deal annoy after beating. Oklahoma state crazy Let's now allstate arena. That's the old rosemont horizon which i'm going to share with you a quick story on that in a second and then we'll have matt come on One of things. I like best about. It is the ability to tell stories. So here's a here's a good hoop story for you. I'm working at espn and the guy who hired me now. We're nbc sports. Same dan steer. Dan is a fabulous guy and unbelievable tv production. Kind of mind was like famously. He was vitalis producer. Vitalis absolutely at his peak. And yeah you don't know where vitalis going to be a producer when that's happening is is hard so he was the coordinating producer at espn and so my broadcasting friends which are listening to this. You're you're not. you're not in because you know how. Dan works so the way in which. Dan would operate when i was there. Which is like bro broke. Keep me honest keep me honest. Come in ask for games. Don't be afraid if i'm as i say. No i don't have one for you but but just knock on my door. Don't don't be afraid to stop eyebrow. So that's what i would do. That's kind of how. I cut my teeth in college. Basketball is like you know berry sacks is the guy who ran espn news. You know we couldn't put you won't here. We can put you there and dance here. Was this ep for college basketball. So dan calls me One day when i'm driving home they brought in your favor needed favor Cincinnati depaul and. It was like a early february game. I was like the paul's terrible terrible. No pro. But i'm i'm everyone's contractors different and so i think i mind at the time was like an all in like you basically throw having too many games. There's no overages no extra fees whatever so somebody says do the game you do the game but you know inside. I was like oh man. That's shitty game so And at the time. I was doing the afternoon or nighttime radio. So that means i would have had to take a day off radio so it doesn't didn't help me pay wise and in fact it actually hurts me because i my radio contract at the time was based on the number of days i fulfilled not anything else and so every day. I did basketball. That was a day. I couldn't do radio which meant it was like it had to be something good but whatever like i love calling basketball games. So he's but make a deal with you. You can fly in to do the game day of which generally not allowed at most networks to fly in day of especially a place like chicago or flying out of hartford where weather can be a factor so dave revson. i work. Excuse me boob. Shabby and i were calling. The game and boob is is out of new york. And i'm out of the hartford area and so we both fly in that morning and they're shoot around at like on one's eleven and one's a twelve so i take i mean couldn't be any better because you get an hour back like i get all my kids. Situated they go to girls go to preschool. Whatever and i had to the airport. You know it's like a nine o'clock flight or nine fifteen flight and you land at like nine fifteen bids amazing so we fly in and you land at is nine fifteen and if you've ever been to the allstate arena which is the old rosemont horizon it. It's literally right off the runway right. So i i didn't rent a car is a car. And here's the here's the thing. It's six o'clock local. Start the last flight to hartford was swear to god. Eight twenty nine pm. Gay sixty. No college basketball. The window is two hours now. Only wisconsin michigan state. Big ten games gold less than two hours but as i was calculating my brain sitting there going like the pulse terrible. They're so bad they're not even going to be fouling late in the game and i'll end up walking out of the arena at seven fifty five. It is five minutes door to door. I can check in for flight. I'm not checking bags. I'm not even. I got a backpack with a laptop. And that's it you know like it's the old It sealed my michael jordan. We went to phoenix to play game. Six of the nba finals. Like you only pack one suit. I louis wore my suit. So i drop my kids off. I've taken flight. I go over there. And i'm and i'm hanging with boob watching paul workout and one of the managers comes over and says Do you guys need to. What actually the producer they had a runner and espn games. Don't usually have. Cbs games do have runners. Espn priest dr. Somehow we had a runner. And we're like hey man. Can we get a ride to the airport and a guy waiting. There's no we have no postgame interview like this just a game on and off. We literally both landed go over to the airport. And now we did get think one hotel room at some like dive hotel right next to the arena. So while we're watching shoot around the like the. The runner who drove us around all day is like actually. There's a team manager. They have a team van and he's going to take you to the airport cool. We meet him great. No problem and i'm gonna meet you at that door. I was like listen. How many people they expect in the nineties. I don't know man like maybe four or five thousand but if we're down big late aloft cleared out. Traffic won't be a problem is like well. Can we be on the side of the arena. What's theory which is the airport sides. We have the easiest exit no problem. These are the things by the way that that broadcasters actually really think about so this guy's driving around and he's kind of driving us crazy. Runner drives just lunch. He like he. He doesn't he smokes but not in the car were driving but he clearly smoked a ton. I think he lived in. Wisconsin is like a college student. Were like this is disgusting. Just remember google and thank god. He's not taking us to the airport. So we get to do the game and paul's down like i dunno eighteen. The half and the thing is rolling and no fouls. And it's usually. It's three minutes for every minute on on the game clock right. That's usually i can think of it. But the first half only usually takes forty to forty five minutes. And i mean it felt like the first half might have taken thirty minutes. Some sitting there elbowing boob and boobs. Flight is last light to new. York is like nine thirty. So he's fine no matter what so The second half starts and all of a sudden the paul start hitting three after three after three after three right and cincinnati's mick cronin's colin timeouts. I'm sitting there dying and he's because he knows if i missed that flight i got to fly with him to new york and then find a way to cab up to canton connecticut or i gotta stay the night and now it's like staying dive hotel change my flight. You know just the you want to sleep in your own bit so the game ends and the ball is in the air and the game balls in the air and depalma's down three. They miss a three at the buzzer. That could have tied sent to overtime. Of course i would have missed. The flight misses it. And you get the from the producer. No postgame hit. You guys are clear. It's like seven fifty eight so we start booking it to the door were supposed to with a van is supposed to be and there's no ban there and there's no manager there turns out he moved it to the other side of the arena. Which and the traffic was a little bit of traffic because people did stay because it wasn't back then inside basketball game. Get in the car. And i'm like in my mind. Doug customers manager just did i just ask you to parking spot. Get you there. Matter of fact. I'm looking at the game right now. And my recollection is pretty good as february eighth two thousand eleven cincinnati depaul classic classic since they paul and it was seventy one. Sixty eight and paul was shitty. They were five and seventeen before the game. Assuming six six and before the game and cincinnati was eighteen fifteen before the game says that up big in the first half behind ibrahima. Thomas started his career oklahoma state. Right sean kilpatrick. Who became a pro. What a stud player. He was Yancey gates and larry davis shot bishop. I was that was good sense of good like good rugged cincinnati team and Cleveland melvin i. Think is an la kid. He ended up having a big night. He was their lease score for paul and they made it close anyway So we get done and we race. You know finally get find the manager. It's like eight. Oh five and book our way over to book. Our way over to o'hare rolando o'hare like eight. Oh nine get out star running nobody at the security gate made it to the Ryan's like oj through the airport right. Get all the way to the gate and And it's like eight fourteen or something or maybe eight. Nineteen and i see the door closed like an eight twenty nine and if you know americans are doing staying probably about two thousand ten like not their fifteen minutes before we close the door. And you're just. I saw that door closed. Mike oh man. I missed it. But there's all these people like sitting in their interest so anyway. The flight was like five minutes before boarding. I end up getting into flight. So i do have some. That's my greatest rosemont horizon allstate arena memory. Far better than than matt who's gonna join us Who of course was setting on the bench for arizona when they had a huge lead against illinois in the elite. Eight before the ally and bruce weber end up making that furious comeback winning the game in the elite eight crazy home crowd. Then they go and play in saint. Louis get all the way the national championship game. They played small ball before small ball was school but too much. North carolina beaten him for national championship. That's there's the there's the allstate arena rosemont horizon. All time worst arena. Only good part of that location is proximity to airport. That's really only it. They have like blue windows and like a blue roof on it. It's a amidst fine as arena. but it. I don't know what purpose it serves now. I i really really. Don't i have no. Who how did that thing get cleared. How did that get to where like. Yeah yeah let's let's build and renew their right in the middle of office buildings apartment buildings and and yeah some high rises in some hotels. That doesn't make any sense at all. So that's a weird one to me. Let's get to it Matt bat guts from a basketball family. He's got an interesting story right from being a junior college player to a college walk on to an assistant coach to To an agent and now as a as a basketball analyst for higher. Here's my conversation with him about a myriad of topics including what do we take of lamelo ball earlier in the season when you're ready to place a bet on today's games do with the most trusted name in online sports. Betting bet rivers sportsbook. Now legal in several states and growing bedrooms sportsbook delivers a unique sports betting experience featuring live streaming sports in game wagering fast authorizations on most withdrawals and gold standard customer service could bet rivers dot com. See for yourself must be twenty one and be present in colorado illinois indiana and pennsylvania to play gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler. I let's let's let let's start at the beginning for you a your earliest memories of basketball or what probably say i was about four or five years old. My dad's the head coach. Junior college in phoenix phoenix college. Run around the maradas. Practices is the first and foremost. It was a college coach on. Did you have like. I wear four hours. Four forty four There's other reasons like pistol. Pete were forty four. A little bit Hey gathers were forty four jerry. West were forty. Four my my mom's side they'll syracuse. People obviously forty four but one of the real reason for forty four months had gotten him. Kirk tasnadi who was his favorite player. Actually sunday's second favorite player to coach at uw milwaukee His favorite player To to coach was actually dave webber. Bruce weber's brother But i love her catchy. I thought he was just the coolest right. So that's why we're forty four. Did you have of the guys your dad coach. Was there somebody who you are and maybe nobody knows. This guy's name. Like that was my guy when i was a kid. Yeah you know. I mean the name that comes to mind. You know a couple a couple of guys. Actually that when my dad was different junior colleges on a western He had burger. Smith know is the playground legend from from brooklyn covers sports illustrated soul the whole the whole deal and Booger tom y'all all his tricks. Ball hailing tricks and whatnot and My i thought. I thought that guy is locked on water. I never wore his. I believe he wore number fourteen for my dad. Which was the only time ever played organized. Basketball The other guy was Denmark read who's damon stoudamire. Scuzzy is mr oregon. Back in same school arizona western. They played to get him. Booger played together. I to be in a standout player in mexico saying he was he was probably the best shooter at ever seen until i met his cousin. Salim star weird teammates at arizonan. Those guys were very influential. Media at a young age is interesting. One by the way i mean the names are great groves. Nickname but denmark is a great name. Caesar it's something about some dudes. They just have a they go by nickname. It's a great nickname or they have just a name that just kind of you know like like it's it's really it's it's kind of fascinating when when when you look back that way What what was it like okay. So so the best team at arizona. You're part of the roster was stock act was. What was your favorite group. I mean i was only there for two years. My first transfer from junior calls in florida in walked on arizona's team and over four zero five. I thought we're the best team in the country Are starting lineup. Was a curse. Leaves stoudamire assan atoms. Von redenomination channing. Frye in we lost. We lost in the elite eight to Darren williams and illinois. We're up by sixteen with half minutes. Love to come back and i thought we should have won that game and i thought we would be north carolina ultimately if we'd gone to the final four and all that so mistake but it was. It was before that's seen but you beat oklahoma state to get there. I get the leading a huge shot at the end. That was that was a great game. That was that was one of the best games i've ever yet. It's that group is interesting. mustafa was the most highly touted point guard in the country. Coming out of philadelphia. And it's this is kind of interesting transition for me In what you do now. you know. Look you've been an agent been around ball your whole life and now you evaluate guys. Why didn't he make what i wasn't a i'm always like i have my own and we can discuss. It can thoughts on it like He was Was the guy's name shabazz shabazz muhammad was like the next version of that where so good at the a you high school level and not be like like. He wasn't a bad college but it was a good college player but to go from the number one point guard. The country to being out of basketball know not being an nba player. Really is is interesting to me and goes through luke's program which is like point guard you. I like that new one because the guys who surrounded people with too because you let you play three because of how they coached you like you know all these other guys made it. But you just mentioned three guys assan and selene and was tablet. Start with mustafa. Why do you think he wasn't. He didn't evolve into what some thought he could be. You know i mean he. He was so hyped up out of high school. I think if i remember he was rated higher than chris. Paul and his number one point around the country goes across the country from philly Like you said argue with olsen and expectations. I think were even higher from from that standpoint and Mustafa is such a worker. And i think the combination of the amount of pressure put on himself and the pressure that came with being the number one point guard in the country and sort of looked at the next savior of verizon on the next big point garden. There's a lot of pressure and i think i think it got some a little bit Yes i think he really had a hard time sort of loosening up as a player. I think a lot of his Illinois game specifically yet. A lot of turnovers. And i think a lot of it was. He's in his head a lot and there's a lot of pressure internally a lot of pressure from outside on him Think you know kind of putting my agent hat on for a second. The suez looking at two did have a successful career. Planner nationally and a couple of coffee in the nba didn't live up to his initial expectations but played professionally for a long time. And especially i think. Sometimes it's unfair to put such high expectations on these sixteen seventeen year olds. We don't know what they're going to be. You know yeah. I think it's a. It's a great point. You mates like i had this conversation. Live loving son. And i've i've kinda turned him in. You know because you know. He's asking a widened. She fewer people walk around the. They always say nicer things about you. Then how you really were player and people say that was great player. He's like well. How can you didn't play in the nba. Well couldn't make a shot. And i didn't think i make a shot and so like it really really. You know it. It harmed micr. But like i played in russia we wanna rush and championship up. Played in israel played in france. I played all these minor leagues. And it's like i tell kids and their parents all the time like outside of play in the nba. Anything you could ever dream of doing in basketball of done and so there is this week we we. We pollute people's minds which are only successful is somehow. You're a starter. You're an mba. All-star was like. Hey dude there's five hundred thousand high school basketball players just to play in college. You're the best one percent in cal in in america and then to play professionally forget the nba. You're like the one percent of that. It's really really really hard And then to play in the mid four hundred and fifty jobs in a little bit more this year obviously because the rosters but the point is like spoken hard and it doesn't make you a failure. If you don't become chris paul but it is interesting. You know like with this conversation last night and And he was. We got shots up and we have the doctor dish machine. Kayla's get let's get. Let's get two hundred more up. He's like I'm just hires my day off. And i just said listen. I'm just tell you when you're in your forties. I can look back. Bill man was a really worth was a video game. Really worth you. Now i do. I wonder how much it's because. I beat myself up over a mental constraints and work ethic. I knew i worked hard. But you don't realize how hard everybody else's working when you think you've made it and and the journey is only become begun Okay so how did you get into the field being an agent. How did that. How that transition from arizona to be an agent take place. Yeah you know. I i never never planned on being an agent. I mean i. I grew up my whole life. My dad's locals work in the nba. My dad was a college before gone. Then be a and You know myself and my cousins. We always plan on being coaches or our dad's footsteps and i think the ultimate goal was. Obviously we all wanted to play in the nba. Pass that we all wanted to be general managers in the nba a zona. My first job was a drove from tucson l. a. worked for watts for media group was the sports agency in the biggest sports agency in the world at the time but my job was to assist dave eggar. Who's a d. league coach at the time to the train. All of their Prejudge guys now. Had seven first round picks that year we had the lamarcus aldridge baystate in austin trained. But we had Brandon roy sheldon williams. Aj jordan far marshall freelance and we had this incredible group and it was dave eggar and i worked with the guys every day and it was a summer internship. Now is sort of my. My i look at the agency business. I never even really thought about too much. I met some of them. Just kind hang around the nba with my dad's and all that but never gave it much thought from there. I still wanted to be a coach. I took a job as an assistant coach at twenty three year old with virtus bologna. Top semen italy Did that for that. For half a season i got a little homesick in i. I got a job opportunity The work for excel sports management to be a junior agent. And i at the opportunity to move back to la. And i just had one opportunity after after another in new. I've been doing it for ten years and had my own agency and After you know five or six years you know the real negatives in that business started to become light in became sort of a common theme conversations that having my wife and my family know i. I don't know if i want to do this the rest of my life. I don't know if this is the place in the world. I want to be in. And i really missing being quote unquote a true basketball person. In kinda throw some feelers. Nba had some interesting conversations about joe join front offices and different sky positions and nothing came together after a couple years of doing. I asked my wife. Do you mind if i make a drastic move. And you'll cash out the business much as i can in kind of better. Myself kinda Recreate myself in basketball. And that's what i did. So i as our volunteer scouting and eventually writing for sports illustrated and then went on to launch babcock. Who's but it was obvious. It's been a rollercoaster pretty much from their zone until today. It's been kinda crazy ryan for me. Okay let's let's go to that first summer day. They're fine dave. So dave coach. The dakota wizards not just in the cba. Coaching a usb l. And like it's it's really interesting. On how i'm i'm i'm very similar. You obviously as you know you know. My dad was a college assistant in college. Head coach then started to you know the a program and what he did. I found fascinating as you news like basketball as you know and people. Listen this pod. Now it's a it's a family rights and you know if you don't know somebody your coaching tree know. Somebody knows somebody at but he been around it so long you literally knew everybody and he was like all lobby team in the floor and he would place kids in college and somewhere along the lines. Somebody's like a you know you should probably charge for the service. Like i'm like you. I always thought all right. We'll play. I want to try and make the nba or play in a different country every year. And then i want to coach or maybe broadcast from broadcasting. Just kind of happened. You know but i do. I'm i totally understand. The idea of like i love basketball like i hosted national radio show but i love basketball more thing i love being and just it's it's hard like sometimes the more successful you are in a business. It pushes you away from the part of the sport that you actually like. That's why i love coaching kids or coaching teams on overseas trips. Whatever okay. Let's go to that first summer. Okay so you mentioned all these guys and it's interesting. Obviously brin roy injuries aside became a tremendous nba player Is crazy the. Jj radic is still playing right like crazy because early on in his career people go like wow he was really overdraft by going that high and you look at the longevity and how the game is evolved some And he looked sheldon williams and he was out of league rather quickly at some of that is the evolution of the league. Some of that is his lack of evolution as a player. If you can remember back to that summer and then you got jordan farmer who i loved as a player Played in the league. Last league but didn't really stick is by and he was a mcdonald's all american starting point guard at ucla. Very good point guard. If you remember back to those workouts did you could you and your twenty three years old. Did you think at the time. Those guys careers play out as they. Did you know brandon. Roy for sure i mean it was so apparent in those workouts. This guy special. Ed legitimate size in any had so much more bursts than you realize. Watch on tv or whatnot. I'm do sort of a bunch of dummy defense on him and he would shake me out of shoes. Left the brian so strong is good with the ball. Obviously you know his His knees and biden hold off and that's why his crew shorter. But i mean what. What a great player in jj. I may just you know shooting translates. He's a really smart player. He was then is now in a worker. I think one thing that was interesting. Jj he he he and i became really close during that time as if he told me he didn't do anything in the weight room at duke and so i think when he got the nba. He really applied himself guinness body together. And i think that's one big part of what helped him stay. Stay in the league for so long. I mean obviously shooting in understand the game and in sort of being a suit of the game is most important results. Take care of his body's got some stronger. I mean. I think that point is pretty physically weak. I know what you said about sheldon translate as well. As sort of like a throwback big six eight six nine nine nineteen ninety. Seventy nine in the nineteen seventies. Shell williams still play in the nba collecting collecting a check. Starting fights off the bench now. But you you gotta be built move. He wasn't if you're going to be low post score you got to be able to be a bucket every time and then where do you stick a guy defensively and and i and i think that's a it's a it's an interesting part about you. Know your evaluations now. Which is whether it's high school value fans kids themselves like we just we look at box scores or what a guy does with the ball but in the nba. Okay can't guard anybody and then the next part kindergarten everybody. There's two things because you have to your everybody's switch at some point in the nba kindergart- anybody and then can you. Everybody and then and then offensively now can you shoot and then obviously do all the other things that are that are involved and sheldon. Couldn't you and didn't really guard. His guy let alone couldn't guard anybody else. I'm not trying to be hypercritical. There's lots of guys like. He didn't translate as well. Absolute so Okay so real. Quick on the agent business and this has been my this. I've always loved his park. Which is when you get in. You gotta get kids and sometimes you know early to over promise and then you end up under delivering like the second round is always kids. Get back the second round and the agent gets fired right which like look. I told you you know anywhere between twenty and forty you get drafted you know forty five and i get i get fired and the second agent comes in swoops in and and you know where you were drafted appropriately. And he is. That is that what chase. Yeah the business will what will be there. There was a number of things that you were recruiting the whole landscape of the business. I mean obviously live. It's come to lima. Last year's that the i investigation scheme and all that stuff and You know. I mean growing up in basle family in in the nineties the basketball fan but like a family that takes pride in being ethical I felt like a lot of pressure of doing things. The right way and i learned pretty quickly. I was at a major disadvantage by doing things by the book In that that war on overtime time. I worked for a lot of the big companies early on in my career in graduate. Went to more boutique situations By design just. Because i felt fit my style fly. You can have a better opportunity of not getting your hands dirty in having some success but after ten years i felt i was at a point where i understood the business really well. I felt like i was very effective as an agent as far as when i knew representing players I was against smoking recruiting. Though i just say my client wasn't growing at the same rate that that i felt like i was improving as an agent. And that's just that's that's a hard pill to swallow when you're not getting is as much success as you think you should be getting in. I just missed being directly involved basil. Even though i was talking with my players and recruiting basketball players you know it's different than evaluating players talking about it and or coaching guys. And so it was a combination of all those things but the all the negative aspects that we're all aware of nowadays business. Those are probably the main things that drove me out. Okay but there are success stories right. Who's the one guy who you've had your greatest success stories and agent is who well. I think it wouldn't necessarily be the big big names. I think the bigger the bigger the job is you know. I mean everybody talks about these super agents that represent these top. Ten picks is the easiest job in the world. All you gotta do is answer your phone and say yes you know Some of the guys. That i when i first went on completely on my own i signed two players. That went undrafted. That were big names. I signed ola ashland from oregon in clint. Chabert from texas and I you know. I thought oh who had a chance to play in the nba. Went undrafted of both those guys You know really bet on me i was. I think i was twenty. Six years old. The time i'd start a basketball division for hockey agency. I was really. I had some finances behind me as far as traveling all that but start started the division without any clients. I had left a group where we represent an nba players. Those guys did on me as a young guy and the they're still playing. I think clinton just wrapped it up that great careers overseas and they really followed my plan stuck with me. The whole time houses an agent. That's those are my best fuel good stories just because you know. We went through it all together and really had success. You know you know considering where they come from yet. It's interesting you know. The other part is now. And i know the overseas game is is changing and a lot of. It's lot better. And now i've a cell phone but i mean i can't imagine like when you're twenty three features bologna right. You have no cell phone. You're going over there. Cut coaches speaking a different language. You know players are are your younger than all the players. Except maybe they. You know a couple of juniors or whatever. I i told the story. I've i've told a bunch different stories in this pod. My favorite one still is when i flew to russia i landed in moscow and i had no cell phone. I just a guy had a sign that was written in russian and had a basketball on it now has gotten his car. I remember i remember this time. Were fading in and out of the conscious at lick it up and thinking you know if he decided to rob me and mike lee dead. Nobody's gonna know for a month. Like godly landon heard from him in a while hurt. He went to go play overseas somewhere. But it is it is. How did you manage. How hard was it to manage your players overseas. You're young not crazy experience. They're calling you or email and you'll ulan hotmail back in the day you're just out of the hotmail era. How'd you handle that. You know it was hard. I mean you know once. I got to that point. Wherever's of his representatives players in my own My model was i needed to sign a lot of players because i wanted to sort of a low overhead guys that i can get relatively cheap and place them good spots overseas and build them up which is kinda stack might ships rather than allow the big agencies. Were as far as signed big names in make a bunch of money on a less amount of players. I was having to manage a lot and when you had many irons in the fire that there's going to be some stuff that blows up in your face mean you know. i said. He went to coach in italy as a twenty three year old. And i got homesick. I had been. I've probably been a little more. Well travel at that point that. Allow these kids. That were going over his rookies and You know guys were built for that that world of being far from home and dealing with the language barriers and the cultural differences and all that and so when the kids unhappy. The agent gets blamed whether it's agents fault or not and so you know it's funny. A lot of parents and players now still lean on me to help them. Select agents deal with agents and whatnot and You know i. It's a crazy business because it's just the manage the expectations. It's sometimes impossible. Because it's just such a such an unprecedented thing for these parents. These players understands you. Tell them all the things they need to know everything. They need to know But sometimes it's a shocker. When they get. How hard was it for you to help a guy make a decision where my look. I mean 'cause my first club might was my second really but you now's with herbert and inner performances and they were huge and they put together a club team in two thousand because there's some changing rules and i of not being able to play for them because i didn't get my israeli really passport. So then my first club was actually Euro great in perm russia. We won the russian championship and that was a great experience. But in hindsight. That should have been mike. My bird year right like my first year should have been germany. You know with a mid level team where i could have the ball and just go play you know and and maybe not make as much money not worry about the bonuses and the championships and it's it's to me again like i i i. I'm sure you're you're you're nodding your head because you get it like you're trying to convince not just the player. He take a little less money because in the end in five years you can be playing in euro league as you need to learn. The european game need to learn to live overseas need to learn to play foreign players and playing against men. And you need to kinda you know. Put up numbers right frank. Right and those numbers aren't salary but we all come out thinking. Like i gotta make some money now like i haven't i got i gotta make some money. How what. What's that like to manage from the agent side now extremely hard. And you're absolutely right. Mean one thing. I always proved was in this first year. You know you know it's not you don't look at the money you need always look at the money in any kind of business deals but it really needs the priority. The be use this as a stepping stone was just kind of gets you kind of get. You warmed up the national basketball but also like build up your market properly You know. I mean going to russia as a young guy. That's that's a different animal. I mean we're talking about europe. There's europe then there's russia i mean the lifestyles harder I would be hesitant to send a young guy. That's not ready ready for the european. The the whole deal right off the bat. I mean we'll look at We will look at france. Germany and belgium affect the transition would be a little easier for some of the younger guys rather than going to eastern europe. Replaces like that where it's you know. The cultural differences are pretty dramatic. It's a it's a you know it felt like never any battling cheer when you signed new rookies and by the time i got out my last year's agent the g. league just got on with two way contracts in affiliate player deals which was a whole nother struggle of trying to convince guys not to chase the nba in start their career overseas and It's funny i actually had had jake. Want lewis will be issue that year Any nose bore lining big went undrafted We had we had like deals for him the euro league and he turned it down to take a affiliate player. Deal in which it's not too But i understood you need scratch. That inches forest chasing chasing dreams goes the g. League doesn't make much money for a year in europe the second year for for deals. That weren't nearly as good as we got the rookie year. And so this is kind of an example of like it's all it's all kinda screwing it. It's really hard to tell these players and parents. You know the right decision. Because they're going through for the first time and even if they trust you. It's hard to. It's hard to listen to an agent about big life decisions like that. Just kind of blindly. Yeah now miss. It's a great point. Lead jay quan gone to the league. And then come back. He'd been better because you would shop the ball so well understood the spacing and the nuances of it. And we don't i started. Cut you off. Is that you know we. I wrote that contract from scratch and You know who would have taken. That job was The kid from gonzaga nigel. nigeria week. Nigel took that job and then the following year he played in the nba for the jazz. You know and so i was. It's kind of like you know sort of a woman's deals were like so just should take a year now. It's it's a hard okay. So babcock troops You launch it and you do a An unbelievable job in terms of player vows What was your email on lamelo coming into the year. Yes i fall lamelo. Since he's been in high school just like everybody else has really you know he. He's sort of like a mixed bag with him. I mean i love. The size is just natural playmaking ability. I mean the big concerns were in australia. Special like his shot selection as lack of effort on defense into sort of his is his whole stick of being known as someone entitled the those are the big hold ups and You know so far and charlotte. He's been great. and promoter. Stand in talks some coaches in the league that he's playing hard he's been very comfortable. I hope it lasts. 'cause he's got a ton of talent i mean he's got star potential in if he's able to kind of get away from some of those concerns in negatives. I mean it could be a big time player. We i think i talked to the warriors guys and i feel i feel bad because i here's my take on on the warriors. What would not enough people in my part of business have are able to conceptualize. His staff is great but he's he's very good with his hands but it's probably better without the ball his hands and what they built the perfect team they built was they had all these. They had all these multi. It's not just multi position guys because that's like an easy one. They had so many point. What kevin durant some point four Draymond green point four point center really for them andrea dollars just to. He played the five for them but he can handle the ball and because it wasn't a great shooter became later in screw became very good passer. Shaun livingston was number one point guard in the country. Right like you look and you wanna had andrew bogut andrew a great passer that just a great streamer but a great passer so it gave him the ability to if he didn't have the basketball. Just go and move and we'll find you and so the new construction of that team they had without except with on none of those guys like. I'm not as down on andrew. Wiggins is the rest of the world's but andrew wiggins is a wing. He is not. There's no point in what he does. and the same goes for. I mean so they draft wiseman why has a lot of talent potential but i look back and i think of how they like to play it and i understood like the dad. I think scared him. I think the persona scared him. Lack of playing hard and playing tough scared him. And i'm sure steve. Kerr was just like not worth but considering may like do kick can really see it can really pass. And if he buys in size wise a multi-positional defender vendor like. I can't think they missed. Even if just in not how good he could be. But what it can do for steph. And that's very early. I totally understand. And he's played. Professional basketball watson played three games in college. There's a total curve there. I get it but that's kind of like a month in. That's my hindsight. Yeah i love wiseman sorts of all these things words. Just i think he could be a high profile guy too. I mean when it's all said and done me he's so big and fluid and he's already produces for for big guy. His age is pretty impressive with lamelo. I think the jury is still out. I mean he's definitely shown that that he's got star potential. May we thought that his playmaking abilities passing ability that was already there From the outside looking on in. i don't think they're starting him on purpose. They're putting him on a leash to keep him in check. What are things going to be like when he gets comfortable as he's still going to defend play hard because people then that's where i think the concern gray point y'all still at least for me. It's still there are we're not. We're audio charles. Not totally safe here with this. Kitty they gotta keep this in the right direction and keep him on point and hopefully they're able to do it because i mad max potential and look if we're if we're being honest one league it ain't real. There's some teams that haven't played hadn't played since march. There's some teams that just got done playing like last week right and so we have this disparity in it and what not enough of us. Admit when you're coming off the bench your plan against bench players not play against stars and and i think being in charlotte is a lot is is a good thing right. You're away from the bright lights in the big city. And and look i i. I'm interested to see how he handles like. You are the the the fame and the attention. Because because they only show the highlights on sportscenter right they. They don't show the defendant possessions where he gives up or the midst finishes What about zion. What now we've we've seen him a year and a half Obviously there's a a drug joppy draw jaw dropping amount of potential there But i'm wondering where you are on zion on if he's going to achieve that because of the the game things are holding back the shooting The you know His body and the injuries. If you were to give your honest evaluation which that's what babcock's does on on on zion williamson at this point in time. What would it be. Always loved zion. Dement duke adam is clear-cut number one. I mean pretty much. Starting early. In the season that never wavered. I think the biggest concern for me is outside shooting. Obviously he's able to kind of develop their. That's a good thing but even if he does and i still think he's going to be an extremely effective player of the biggest concerns are his body and keeping his body healthy. I mean you know. He's obviously got the huge body type in keeping that weight down stay stay in fluid as an athlete and can stay healthy and staying on the floor. I think he's if he's able to do that. I mean i think he's gonna be one of the better players in the league. Prompt probably for a long time. I'm i think. I think college basketball is changing dramatically and Outside of this pod don't know how many people have admitted it like because you're losing a couple of the top kids a year now to the g. league select in that will continue now. Kentucky and duke are fighting over maybe a little bit second tier. And i'm not trying to diminish those kids right and then when you're going to always lose up a cage cunningham exotic you lose net now a sudden whereas you used to be able to compete with older teams if you had the top five kids in the country when you have fifteen to thirty five. You got very hard very hard to now. They're really young and they're they're not. They're not anthony davis. They're not eric bledsoe. They're not john wall. They're not demarcus cousins. It's it's it's it's different Is that a fair assumption. That is that fair assessment. That the i think it's I i think you know grassroots college. These alternate options. I think that's just gonna get get become a bigger and bigger focal point. As far as guys translate transitions to the nba. And all that and I think a of these one and done type players are going to keep doing these alternate options. I think there's going to be even more of them. It's what we're gonna look at his college. Basketball is probably gonna be more of a hotbed to go. Get good solid players. That have been groomed by the jay. Writes the tony. Bennett's those guys that are probably juniors and seniors. That are coming in the know how to play that you could plug and play his role players Because i i do think these guys that are marketable. Seventeen eighteen year olds. They're probably gonna go. Get some money. Legally luca garza. What did you in the nba. You know he's he's such a tough one because he's such a study in college. I'm asia's he's been producing on such a high level. I just don't know if he translates that while under we've got him at sixty right now. Our big board which. I'm sure a lot of college basketball fans would go up in arms about just foot speed. It it's just a big problem with the nba player right now. Everything is so spread out. There's so many high. Pick and rolls. I don't know if he could keep up but at the same time it. He's one of those guys. Don't want to bet against. I mean he just such a tough kid and just he's just a winner want to evaluate. I told his dad as like. Can you tell luka to stop wearing black shoes now. Stop wearing black sneakers. He's ago like look. Your son has a reputation of not having great feat. he's a rate offensive player. When you wear black shoes it makes. Pete look even slower. Please tell him to stop wearing. But but yeah it's it's a hard one 'cause he he an an and it's not like he can't shoot he's made himself into very good point shooter but it's what about the other end the floor You know the scoring in the post isn't as valuable And and and you know. Can you be as efficient offensively against better players In a short period of time where you're not getting fifteen twenty shots right like that's the real challenge. It's not just. Can you score against better players from further out. It's can you do it in now. You've gotta come off the bench where you ll gotten twenty five shots if you miss your spot you're getting five more works in the nba. Miss your five go sit. We'll talk to you in an hour and a half. Maybe we may need you again. So it's it's a it's a harlem what about cunningham early in his his career Who i what your email and then to do you have a consulate yet. I may have watched cade. I live in denver so usa basketball events. You know real easily. And i've watched them all those different mini camps and stuff like that. And he's a stud. I mean he's he's so mature for for for his age as a player composers. Great i think really makes could read and decision making and Any and he's got great size and versatility sort of the cops for him kind reminds guy. We talked about earlier. So reminds me of a mix between brandon. Roy like luca danni which you know. He's he's he's a big on ball guy is he you know. He sort of categorize the point guard. I think you can use them in so many different ways especially if he's able to continue to develop as outside shooting you know in in its. We've got him as the number one guy right now. Just i think he's You know. I don't know if he's going to ultimately be the best player in this draft but i do think he's a safe pickling. This guy is going to be at least a pretty good good player. Who's who's the one player. Who has somebody looks at your board. Their most surprised by. But you feel you know in that. Top five ten fifteen brian. Well you know we just did our first big board last week and we did it strategically this late because i mean we needed needed some time to catch up. I mean you know a big part of your basket like. How's the pandemic affected your scouting in the biggest thing that it's affected as we missed. All of april of do i mean. I was all set to go to mcdonald's. All american game Hoops summit or brain classic alan iverson classic in all the one and done before they step on campus so we missed all that it. Luckily i do a lot of high school stuff. So i've seen all these kids about look a little bit of catch-up The one guy that. I've gone gone. The most heat on that have had eighteen or nineteen is Is drew timmy. From gonzaga and i think one of the big arguments even though i'm i'm in my mid thirties. Come from a background similar to you. Where i've been trained as a scout by guys work in basis like the seventies right. I'm a little bit more old school traditional. And i am not as quick to say a big. Geyser are dying breed in timmy to me. That guy just he's just got such a knack put in the whole i. I don't care if he needs to be you know A low post scorer if he's getting his action flow the game. I think the guy is going to be a bucket the next next level. One guy that. I think if people are looking at and saying hey. This is a slow white guy. Like houses guy fit He's good enough to translate of the nba. Yeah i think. I think he's also easy teammate. Because he's not he's not not a pig and playing with with with jalen suck is jalen suggs. Is jason kidd. Who who is who is he to you. Yeah i mean the the guys that that come to mind for me with him Jason kidd darren williams His other guy watched lot usa basketball events in. I didn't see the point guard play at those events as much and so i wasn't quite as high on him but man ran at the gate this year he he he He really negated those issues. That kid is true. A point guard guards against. And i think he's going to give k to run for the money. You know possibly the top blinker on the draft. I agree if somebody wants to to to become to to get all your stuff. How do they do it. Baptized coops dot com. That's our that's our main main spots of we're doing a ton of draft covers a lot lot of writing. I we're actually starting to Scout some games. I'm going to organize colorado today term this weekend arizona state. Usc saturday boise state wyoming. Monday and i guys all of the countries the were. We're going after a man. I appreciate your time. I think you do a great job and your perspective. Having been a player having been in a in a basketball family having been an agent. I think it's unique. And then the the ability to bet on yourself and then when is awesome. Awesome anytime you wanna come on You are welcome here. And i really appreciate your time. I appreciate the kind words and this won't catch. Let's give you touch fisher. Thanks man. I might thanks to math. That was great. Stop really released. You go to his website. You want to check out his analysis and we had a good good time converse. Satan if you will. It is hard to watch the nba and make definitive statements about each one of these players in each one of these teams. Even college basketball right like you see. I'm i'm i'm watching wisconsinite. And they beat louisville but like fifty but louisville didn't have half their team had to play their young kids and now that's louis only lost in the years it's hard to tell like some of these teams in the middle. I think the big ten is outstanding. Absolutely i'm not an idiot but i also think some of the other conferences didn't has been returners and so early in the year with less practice. Less preseason games less of these tournaments you're gonna see teams with more returners older players. Play better and i do think that water does find his level. Once we get to february march. But it'll be interesting to see how much of those limited preseason games get held against it and once again you heard my philosophy with matt agrees with or maybe a my hypotheses for why i don't think duke or kentucky is at the level that they've been and maybe won't be at the level that they've been if they continue to recruit those one and done type of guys over the top level. That wanna leave early because the real guys that are that are one daughters with a couple of rare exceptions are probably going to the g. league selecting i. That's it for all ball. I'm doug gottlieb. This is alba. Hey guys it's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show and that pretty much always sleepy. Because i wake up with three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later i get all my friends together so we get into a room and we do a radio show. We our allies. We tell our stories. We try to find much good in the world that they possibly can and we look through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music to wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point. Seven w. mcu in washington dc or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio app.

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SO2EO3 Vanessa Friedman on Accountability in the Fashion Industry

Fashion No Filter

37:32 min | 2 years ago

SO2EO3 Vanessa Friedman on Accountability in the Fashion Industry

"Hi, I'm Cammie sharia, and I'm Monica Ainley, and you're listening to fashion no filter where we sit down with some of the lead creative strategic thinkers and emerging town around us to interpret the ins and outs of the fashion industry today. Hello and welcome back to fashion, no filter everyone. We're in a bit of a bit of a funny location today, although a location which fashioned filter has previously been recorded. You may remember the walk in closet of French actress Anna Gile do from season one. The modem news episode. Of any. I'm not think you for letting us. In your seltzer who we had a bit of drama today. There's Joe and have taken pairs under siege. And we were gonna be recording in my apartment, but that was never longer possible. So without further reduced it that took about all guest. Yes, we are really excited about the interview we have you today as part of our new series on fashion after me too. Vanessa Friedman is the fashion director and chief fashion critic of the New York Times, speak job job, any fashion person worth their salt knows she is one of the ultimate arbiters for designers in our industry before joining the New York Times Vanessa was fashion editor of the financial times. So there she was really bringing fashion analysis to the world's financially minded elite everyone gets up in the morning, and they make a decision about what they going to put on their bodies that fool. It is something that we should look and think about she told the cuts increasingly as information gets conveyed visually. Whether it's by picture on a phone or online, the choices you make about what you put on a more and more important. So are at it is let's look at this. Let's think about why we're making these choices and what they mean. And what they can say to everybody else and talk about it. Vanessa is direct and pregnant pragmatic and hold members of fashion industry accountable for racist designers to putting photographers but also whilst reviewing that collections. Season designers who have missed a beat in creating intelligent, relevant clothing for the modern women, man. Like, I think we can use the example of the semen collection this season. The personally didn't didn't quite hit. Just didn't feel that relevant. Did it? Yeah. I think so we spoke to Esa on the line from NYC who told us about the process of breaking the Mary Testino, Bruce Weber story, the players that really needs to be held accountable and the role of the fashion industry in the larger metoo reckoning hope you enjoy the interview. Vanessa you spent months investigating the sex the sexual misconduct fashion, photographers, mayor Testino, Bruce Weber over the span of that career is can you tell us how the story like this come together from beginning to end, I imagine it was a long journey. It really it began when the time published their investigation of Hervey Weinstein, and and the New Yorker. You know, both because we started looking at his connection to the fashion world at because that really was a gate opener for so many women in so many industries you started to come forward with their stories. So we were contacted by numerous people about misconduct in the fashion industry. Began to think about how you know how we could treat that. And you know, it's it's a very complicated question and a very serious both for the victims. And for the the people who are legendary misbehaved? And so we thought we had to. Create certain a certain structure ourselves to determine what really would be the subject of investigation. And where we came down is that we would look look into people who exhibited a pattern of behavior over time. You know, one the continued until the the very recent past without that was very important at you know, where there was a clear abuse of professional power, and after talking to many, many people adhering many stories it we ended up really looking at Bruce and Mary because they met that criteria. How hard was it for you to get victims models in this case to go on the record? It was it was always incredibly difficult because these are, you know, very sensitive very personal stories, and you know, we also were looking at male models. You know, one of the things that we felt is that, you know, if passionate particular unlike almost every other industry, bam maters models are actually at the bottom of the totem pole much more so than women and the question of sexual harassment and abuse of power is you know, is one that is not gender specific. And there was a lot of focus on the way. These issues had impacted women, obviously, you know, is incredibly important, but we wanted to make sure that, you know, the the point that it also applies to men, and that men are also victimized was not lost in this in the story. And you know for men, it's even it was even more complicated to come forward. Because I think there was a lot of shame attached to allowing yourself to victimized, particularly if you're a male model. Who tends to be, you know, someone who is tall and straw on heterosexual. It doesn't look like somebody who would be the victim of abuse necessarily doesn't look like someone who's powerless, and you know, and and there's a certain stigma attached to to you know, homosexuality and being victimized by other men. So it was the you know, the sort of the natural. Mirvish nece around coming forward about sexual harassment was compounded by these factors. So we talked to a lot a lot of people. And you know, in the end there were lots didn't want to go on the record also because they were still working, and they were very nervous about the fashion power structure. And we're convinced that if they allowed their names to be attached to this kind of story. They would never get another job. Right. Well, yes, mayor test. No had actually created somewhat of a family man image for himself over the years. He regularly immortalize the British Royal family's key moments, for example, or as you wrote in one of your pieces, he I photographed Madonna with her newborn baby she had her first child. I also, you know tummy, and I having been part of the London fashion world for the past and years, we know shameful as it is to admit it that Testino's misconduct was kind of one of fashion's worst kept secrets what do you think? Everyone protected him for so long for despite the whispers, why was everyone working almost working together to protect him. I just I just wanna make appoint before I get into that. Which is that this was very much a team effort, and it was something. I did with the help of my colleagues Jacob Bernstein, unless you sire pay, you know, it really it was a huge lift on many, many people's part. And I was just a small part of it. They, you know, everyone did an enormous amount of work on it. So in terms of Marian people covering up, I think, you know, there are a lot of people who who weren't covering it up. They simply their relationship with Marya was one that was positive, and, you know, loving, and you know, and he was perfectly properly behaved, you know. I think one of the really important factors in these stories is that it is absolutely possible for some for two coexisting realities to be true, you know, for someone. To be absolutely, you know, proper decorous and supportive in one case and abusive in another, and, you know, one of the things we saw when the story came out with a lot of people coming forward and saying my experience with Bruce with it was incredibly positive. I can't believe this, you know. And and I absolutely believe that you know, that that people did have very very positive long-term relationships with him. I'm sure the Royal family had fantastic. You know, you know, and also mareo, you know, his his kind of the abuse of power that we found was not just with models who also his assistance, you know, which is something that takes place behind closed doors. When people are other people are not around, you know, it's very possible for both these things to be true. And and I think that's one of the hardest things for the world to kind of get their heads around because you can have a wonderful relationship with someone who in another situation, you know, is not a wonderful person. And you know, so I think people did know about it. But also fashion itself is such a gray industry and sex at the selling of sex is such an important part of it. But it's very hard to define where the line is between you know, what is something you do to make a great picture and something that. That you know is just simply not acceptable in terms of the behavior between you know, if talker Mahler photographer and the people who work for them. You know, there's a huge premium priced on kind of creative freedom the monster sex. Hey, what it takes to get, you know, a piece of art or it's quivalent into the world. So all these things were contributing, you know, issues too. I think people not even knowing if what had happened to them was actually acceptable or not acceptable. And on this issue of bloodlines. No. What is actually acceptable and not in the name of art in industry? Weather's lines of blood. Do you think that's why they're more exceptions made by members of the fashion industry these days? I mean, if you compare it to Hollywood politics that do seem to be. Yeah. It does seem to be the lines of more blood, especially if you think about the fact that the industry is dominated by so many powerful women for women. The industry is also full of you know, individuals who in other industries would probably categorize themselves as kind of outsiders or the powerless, you know, whether it's because of their you know, their sexuality or their race or their gender. I mean fashion is kind of haven for people who would consider themselves misfits often people who are considered more powerless in the kind of grand scheme of society, and politics, and culture. You know, that's another. I think contributing issue to this. It's like how can they be, you know, abusing their power because they understand what it is to be, you know, in the minority or the kind of disaffected, I think a lot of it as much as the the kind of enshrinement or I can say the artist is also the fact that fashion really about, you know, selling seduction selling desire when you are creating an ad campaign. Or you are doing it at a to'real. You know, you are trying to create a picture that to the viewer that makes you want something, right? Like, your you want them to you want them to wanna product, and you know, that that kind of emphasis on seduction is, you know, really, it's a it's a difficult thing. You know, if you're a model, and you're out there trying to, you know, get someone to want whatever you're selling. How do you then say well? Yes. But this is just business. You can't. And I'm happy to work with you again. Yeah. It's a fine line for sure. Yeah. Yeah. At models often. You know, this is all complicated again by the very murky financial structure of modeling industry, where you know, the girls often, particularly the not famous girls, you know, none of this really applies to what we think of supermodels, and it was when we were investigating this. It was very clear that you know, girls like Karen Elson who came forward, you know, to talk about her unexperienced when she was starting out once she became successful and very well known. This did not happen to her. You know, you are really protected by fame in fashioning away that I think you are similarly in Hollywood, although maybe not even as much, you know. So the victims are often the girls who have the least they're the least we'll know the most disposable, you know, same with them in their male models or almost entirely despite. Opposable and think of themselves as disposable so that makes you both willing to accept much more misbehavior than you would maybe naturally, and it also makes them very insecure because they don't really know where their money is coming from well and just going back to your pace from March third many accusers few apologies because it really struck a chord with me, do you think in the case of Testino, and Weber it's possible that reactions were somewhat muted because the accusers are male rather than female, or is it possible that deep down society just has trouble feeling true sympathy for really really good looking people who are paid to be really good looking. I mean, isn't that simple? I think that that's part of it. I also think it had to do with whoever was advising both Monday. No Jacob Bernstein. Who wrote the story with me? And I were both very struck by the fact that although in almost every other industry is. It seemed like the the kind of conventional wisdom said if someone comes up with the story, whether or not you really to admit, it, you always say, I am terribly. Sorry. If my behavior was, you know, misconstrued in any way, and I hurt somebody without understanding it and neither mareo did not say that. And you never actively not say that nor really did Bruce. And I think that that was surprising to us and probably had to do with the people who are around them. And you know, it may also be true. You know, if you get away with something for a very long time, and it's not, you know, it was clearly her Asman and abuse of power. It wasn't you know, criminal stories. We were hearing. Then you know, you probably you may not think what you were doing was wrong. You know, that that that definition changes over time, you know, one of the interesting things about all the sexual harassment investigations stories is that you can see the waste of science and society's attitudes. Have if all you know, if you think about fashion in the nineteen eighties. They were boundless stories about sexual harassment and abuse that had already come out in the press with names attached to them, and everyone sort of his fist about it. And then everything just went on normal. You know, so the biggest question for me. Now is you know, is will all this actually the to real change in the industry? You know, are we finally at a point where things are going to move on. Well, right. And so what I wanted to ask you next is in your opinion, whose responsibility is it to make sure that this doesn't happen again. I mean is it all of us is at the agents is it I mean, the photographers, obviously. But how? Where do we go from here? I think it's absolutely every person's responsibility, and perhaps even more. So the, you know, the kind of power players in the industry, we I looked into this during fashion making September to find out if you know, largely for female models from anything had changed during fashion week. And you know, what most of them said was that attitudes seem to have changed particularly on shoot that. There is a little more respect that people are scared that they are mostly, you know, more polite. Kind of discussion about touching in a way that there wouldn't have been before, you know. In other words, the silence is going to adjust a garment, or if it's huggers adjusted garment, they'll say, you know, pay I do this. I'm going to do this now. And you know, is it. Okay. But that may you know, that that's probably a product of nervousness as much as I thing, you know, but that actually in terms of serious sort of systemic change, it isn't that different. And certainly when I was at shows backstage talking to designers, some of them very clearly created separate changing areas for the model, I was really struck when I say should Etro because what had been a big open space that you could sort of walk by to get to the the catering area where you could always see girls changing, you know, by the Rex was now completely walled off. They had put up a kind of temporary wall, and you can see anything that's programs that there are other. Are, you know, plenty of other shows exactly the same and the you know, sort of doing interviews designer turn around and there'd be some after girl's body was right in your face or your there. And then they suddenly see there, and they just start shouting it all the press like oh, stop looking stop looking. It's like, that's that's not. That's not how it works. Does that no one ever said to me, you give the girl some primarily do the nerve you're here, and you know, and at clearly wasn't there to take pictures of half naked model? Oh, I can't in king pictures of anything. But at the same time, you know, just out of. Decency. You'd think it'd be nice if they did have a curtain or something to change, you know, Michael Kors, I think there was a special room for girls who are under sewer sixteen and under so they had actually been separated from the older models, but the older models didn't have a separate area. Right. Because if you're over sixteen it's all good. I mean, it's, you know, the age question is incredibly complicated 'cause everybody we spoke to everyone who came forward with their first they were all over eighteen I think they're almost over twenty one. So, you know, I think that this sort of idea that after sixteen you're able to cope with this after eighteen which is the, you know, which is the lie that bogus trying to drown stand the American boat. You're able to deal with with these kinds of questions. I, you know, I really wonder about that. Yeah. I think we really question that. Yeah. I mean, arguably you ever equipped to deal with things when they coming from someone of power. It's. Very good point. I think you know, when you're thirty five you may know, exactly if it's someone that you're working for that. You're trying to sort of impressed that you worried about how you're gonna it's always the same thing framing the program within the workspace. Because obviously, it's very different being harassed outside in the street and being harassment people that you work with you're going to encounter again in the means something in terms of your own career. I yeah, people you think hold your future in their hands up know, certainly when you're talking about, you know, fashion, there is a very small group of gatekeepers, and you can see it because if you go through magazines, go throughout campaigns. You know, there's literally a handful of a talker. I who work with a handful of violence, and they, you know, do sixty percent seventy five percent of what we see. They are the image makers, and they can absolutely take a career. You know, we hear endless stories about models who were discovered by someone like Stephen myself, Stephen number come up any of these. Russian. So I don't want to imply that at all just using his, you know, but who during a period where he shot every single cover of talian vote. Could, you know, make you, you know, crown star overnight, and, you know, four a model, that's you know, for their agent. You know, that's an incredibly exciting opportunity. Yep. Taking a step back from your recent work extending the metoo movement. I'd love to talk to you more generally about your role as a fashion critic because it does seem like the fashion industry. Unlike I would say, maybe food off film, it I mean is really quite resistant to the concept of critique there were very few people winning to put back to opinion out that why why do you think this is? I think they're used there used to be a lot of. Shrinking number of us. But that probably has to do as much with the shrinking number of newspapers places to put. Uh-huh. I think that in fashion there faster magazines job is not to be a critic, it's to be a booster, and to, you know, be a promoter. And, you know, celebrate the industry, and that's great. And we need it, you know, whereas the newspaper critics role is really to be. I think I kind of. Almost a watchdog for the industry, and you know, someone who is willing to say like this is good. This is bad. You need to think about this. And I think as fashion has become increasingly captivated by direct to consumer as you know, brands of understood their ability to circumnavigate some of this. They have become much more willing to kind of push the critic away. And you know, certainly that was the case with a brand like doll shrank Cabana. Yeah. All skew about media and the role the. Dodging minutes long ago ban, the New York Times from their shows that interesting. Years and years ago, and when I was at the financial times where I worked till twenty fourteen. I, you know, they used to invite me to other shows were completely fine with whatever I wrote about them in my reviews. And then when I changed jobs, they said what you can't come anymore. I thought well, I'm the same reviewer. You know, my approach to criticism hasn't changed. My understanding of what you do hasn't changed. Did you that they were just like they were like, no, we don't like the New York? This with the time per se the pines. You know, the pines. So that which is very odd to me. So that was when you first realized something was a moose. I mean, it just seemed like a very sort of weird. Illogical? Thought it was like this is an opportunity for, you know, your shows to kind of be looked at again by our millions of readers, wouldn't you want that? But apparently not interesting what's happening in recent years. What we social media sort of taking the role just being so big and Voss and everybody can take on the role of minute critical influence, all these different, hats know, stylist. Everybody can like Dabal it own of this and oversee like agendas can have a sudden opinion about it. But it is true. That in a case like what happened with the Prada dull upon the show take down. That that definitely is more accountability in that can be credited in some way to social media and the transparency that's issued from from it in the industry. What what what are your thoughts about that? Transparency and also, you know, bullying and yes, miss misperceptions. I mean, I think there it's a very messy cloudy area. And there are some things about it that are really pin official because social media does allow for the kind of the the formerly voiceless to have a voice in to have an outlet, but it also allows for pentothal us attacks. And and some real glad you said that meet me meanness, and you know, and that's on the part of both brands and the people who accused brands of things, you know, one of the biggest issues that I see is. You know, there's a lot of talk about plagiarism on the part of big brands and copying particularly of small designers or students, and I think, you know, in the same way that. The way surfing the web has given rise to like plagiarism in schools or problems with plagiarism in schools. It's created this issue with design because now, you know, these big teams that exist in brands, you know, who work with designer, and we'll do kind of the first pass at something. They describe, you know, my well be looking online and just kind of jumped from page to page or, you know, site to site, and you see a picture, and you don't even really think about it. And later on it gets kind of regurgitated in your work. And you haven't properly signed posted it so might my guess is a lot of this is is not intentional. It's not mouth fees in terms of, you know, people setting out to steal a look from someone. They think is just not famous therefore, no one will know, but it's the kind of negative product of the digital world, and we just have to put checks and balances in the systems that. Haven't previously existed because they haven't been necessary in order to give credit where credit is due to make sure that we understand where the antecedents of a look come from. You know, this is just one of these things I feel like the system has not caught up to the reality. And in which we went out work. So when you will giving feedback on something something that that could be perceived. A subjective a show connection. Once you looking us. I look I tend to take myself out of it. You know, one of the ways I distinguish between what we call bloggers, which is kind of now, I think old fashioned term and one that isn't really right for those that group of individuals, but for one of a better term long, you know, as I said, the their reaction to shows or to work as much more personal, and it's very visceral. And it tends to be like, oh, I like that. I don't like it. It's cute. It's not cute. I'm married. I wouldn't wear it for me. None of this has to do with me. So I try to think about you know, I what is the designer saying about women and women's role at that moment, how it's changed what their needs are in terms of their place in the kind of sociopolitical context. And you know, does that make sense? And then what does it have to do with their on history? You what before with the history of the host with the styles around it? And again does that. Does that make sense and to really assess it in that context and always to be as fair as I possibly can be to try and understand what they were thinking. And you know, that'd be willing to say if something is bad or good if it works or doesn't work. Yeah. So sorry. I'll let you say, you know, I feel really strongly that in order to make a good review means something you have to be willing to say when something is not good. Yeah. And what would make you feel inclined to give a negative review is the is it when you can't see who the woman really is. Clearly, or is it maybe if you feel like it's going against progress in term, politically or social politically in in the way, the fashion reflect society, I mean, what would what would trigger a negative review from you? Yeah. It tends to be. If if I feel like designers ideas are not. Are not relevant with the time to the time if they are somehow inhibiting or constraining their customer their women instead of freeing, her liberating her making her stronger and more powerful, you know, I think generally fashioned is there to solve problems. You know, there's a lot of talk about fashion being punitive to women or eight oh or making constraining women. I actually think it's there to make women's lives better to help them express themselves, and to, you know, free them up to feel stronger more confident more themselves than they would then they felt before. And so if it doesn't if government doesn't check those boxes or collection doesn't check those boxes. I think it needs to be pointed out. So you as much designer for the the reader customer, you know, I think that it's like a lot of these in a lot of these cases, particularly when you're dealing with various dabbling brands that are, you know, global names, the designers are pretty removed from the sort of the ground and often they're surrounded by people who, you know, are real boosters insure leaders for them, which is great. But you also need to be surrounded by someone Jose like, wow. That is not a good idea. Like take that one out because that went over there is fantastic. Yeah. I mean, if you only have yes-men around you're not gonna I say this every day walking freelance and having no wanted of critiquing walk and saying less of this more of that. And just always having to be your own sounding board is very difficult. I I think I mean, I think everyone benefits from great editing, including me, so you know, being helping someone think about that is important. So actually, can we talk a little bit about your career. What kind of difficulties have you come up against? I mean, I listen to another podcast where you mentioned something that really struck me about being at a race track or something in England and snooty type Scoffing at the fashion industry. And I it really resonated with me because it does happen. I think to all of us, but you know, within the industry, you kind of have like. You have the smartest job for lack of a better word. So it's interesting that people would still look at fashion that way considering just considering the money in fashion. What do you make of that? Fair that experience was probably about fifteen years ago. Okay. So I do think people have you know, I think perception of fashion has moved on. And it is, you know, generally, you know, now, I get much more emails and calls for people saying, you know, you have the best job. How do I get it? Then I, you know, they're not used when I started really doing fulltime fashion. All the time was the F T in two thousand three and at that point people still were very, you know, very. Come about. It is the F T had a fashion editor it I had done freelance work for them before. And they had recently changed editor, and she's you know, in some of their structure and had decided to have fashion editor, which is not a position because I didn't have had had they had had you know, what they call it. The how to spend pages which were kind of compendium of high end consumer products including clothes, but also, you know, vases, and beauty and gardening. And as they started to break out different subjects, according to reader tastes. I think they realize that fashion was both a huge industry as you pointed out, you know, one that really headed cheese kind of critical financial mass in the stock market globally. And also something that their readers cared deeply about and it would behoove them to have a separate page or to to look at that every week, and then and they called me or I call them. I think they had been thinking about this. And it was just very fortuitous timing. I got very lucky. I mean, I I don't know if maybe this is too much of an existential question. But if the department really sort of didn't exist, you think about your work in terms of the legacy that you're gonna leave behind you off towards. No, I thought about it in terms of what would it mean to do to create fashion at four newspaper like the financial times? And that was a really exciting questions. The reason I wanted to do it before the FDA had not had a sort of a fully fashion job, the fashion. News futures director of inside Al UK when it launched it before that I had been largely an arts and culture reporter starting a Vanity Fair in the New Yorker. So what excited me about committing fully to fashioned was the idea that I could really think about what it would mean at a place that was not about fashion for readers who cared a lot about fashion, and for whom fashioned played a very important role in their lives and careers. But who were not, you know, it was not the main job, they're not their main job. And that was really interesting, and I think because I didn't come from a fashion background. I also had much. Freer sense of what that could mean, you know, where fashion would sit at the nexus of all these other forces and conversations, whether it was politics or business, or, you know, offer or theater or travel and to me, that's really what's exciting about. It is that you know, fashion offers is incredibly accessible prism on all these other conversations that we engage in. Totally. Yeah. So one last question for you looking into the future. What are who is exciting you in the industry today? Is there any any names you want to call out? God, there's so many, you know, I'm I'm really interested in in new designers. Always whether it's someone like marine say or Cass Lada or Kirby's Ramada pyre boss in New York, who I think is really one of the most interesting designers working today, and I'm really interested in, you know, some of the young the young execs very interested, and I don't want to name too, many names, but in the crossover that's going on between fashion and so many other industries because I feel like it really has become a completely kind of crossborder with. And and you know, and you see it in the fact that like somebody athletes are interested in fashion that so many actors are interested in fashion. You know, the fact that when Paltrow has almost entirely given up moviemaking to move into lifestyle design is. I think really a harbinger. What's coming? I think we're gonna see more and more of that. And that's going to be fascinating of Lucien to watch. And hopefully every great newspaper. We'll have a great fashion. In the near future. I'm sure they will. Well, Vanessa we won't take any more of your time. But thank you so much for coming on fashioned, no filter. Thank you pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Vanessa Friedman for giving us a little insight into her walk for the New York Times, we really hope CHAI allow you Tonto stunned little bit more about the hashtag metoo movement and how it's been making real waves with an eye industry. It seems like with finally reaching a point where industry heavyweights being held accountable for their actions, regardless of how powerful talented they all. I think it's a real on the frost to hear from someone who's built to solid reputation as thoughtful in fat arbitrator in what I mean, I I wanna say is the most creative evolved industries. Yeah. Well, as always all the articles and people mentioned during the interview will be in the show notes. Yes. These don't forget to review in rate us, if you enjoyed the show, I guess, even if you didn't. But it really helps us to work our way up the charts and secure sponsors, which allows us to then make more shows or you're listening pleasure. The vulture trysts circle of creation. Oh, and as always if you have anything you'd like to share with us any feedback or questions about the episode, you can find on Instagram at fashion, no filter or at national filter at G dot com. Some rod thanks this name. My.

Bruce Weber harassment New York Times Vanessa Friedman New York mayor Testino editor Jacob Bernstein Hollywood director Anna Gile Cammie sharia Joe Hervey Weinstein Vanessa Karen Elson Monica Ainley Esa
Episode Thirteen: Kansas-Kansas State Saga, Zion's Big Debut, and The NCAA's Biggest Threat

Titus & Tate

1:02:05 hr | 1 year ago

Episode Thirteen: Kansas-Kansas State Saga, Zion's Big Debut, and The NCAA's Biggest Threat

"Potatoes brought to you by the club. TRILLION FOUNDATION IN THE CLUB TRILLION FOUNDATION SCHOLARSHIP. I've plugged this before eight and it's time to plug it again. We're getting down to the wire here. the scholarship is open for those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about We we foundation that I helped start is giving out a scholarship to walk on basketball player. Division One men's basketball player It is open to all division one. Men's basketball player walk on's The deadline to apply is February. First you can go to club. TRILLION FOUNDATION DOT ORG to apply We do not have. There's many submissions right now as we should And that's fine by me. I mean there's only going to be one winner so Who Cares how many people actually submit it but You know if you're a fan. I assume people listen to this college basketball fans. They would love to see guy on their team win tweet at him. If you know someone walk on tell them about the scholarship. It's fifteen thousand dollars and a free trip to the final. Four is better than what my kids get to go to school of course and we should also point out that a lot of people were confused because they don't view as a walk on you know what I mean so maybe there's a little they don't intimidation intimidation right. They may think that you're too good and they don't WanNa reach out to you because they don't view as a walk and it's not it's not a one to one kids out there. That are good. Bet where on the so. You're saying when you have real player or manager yes or a real commentator you basically get to Dan dockage this. That is true. You're winning basketball basketball player winning coach as you get older in media and your former player Your credentials of like how good you are as a player mattered. Less and less of course yes. The same is true with coaching by. Does anybody know how a coach you know. No one really cares. highlighter gives the bill raftery. When is a coach Komo? No one knows we just love him on. That's my goal. I WANNA I wanna do that so anyway. Go go help. Spread the word as I said. The deadline is February first quickly approaching coaching. If you've not submitted your application by then You lose you get nothing and you'd like it so that's how that's going to go tate. We today we have to talk about. What a what a week in college basketball this was? The Old Big East is back in and it resides in Kansas An old big east. It's a play on this is not. We don't even talk about brawls to bring up this brawl an old big east it's a Wednesday But in the big twelve. Apparently this is the the biggest atrocity that has ever happened. People are calling this the worst fight in college basketball history because recency bias is thing and nobody remembers. I don't know the basketball move on. We've been doing a show like I feel complicit honestly we're like we're here making jokes and like something so severe happened in a college basketball court If you missed it. There's a fight in in Kansas Kansas. Taking we're going to talk about that at length we're GonNa talk about our good buddies I in Williamson debut in an NBA. We're going to talk about there's this NCA convention going on in Anaheim and Titan. I'd get really. They're all talking. They've just a lot of talk talk they've heard about the FBI and they've heard the Condoleeza Rice maybe cannot save everyone But mostly we're just GONNA talk about Kansas Bill so We're going to get to it but I what are you doing. Oh Wow are tate. It is about eight fifteen out here on the west coast. We just got down watching Michigan State lose in assembly hall There's a game before that that We don't really need to talk about What is that again marquette? It's I do not recall. Should I do it now so we just get it out of the way a lot of people. I let me say this a lot more said we had our first show Fox. And we're very excited to be here and people were saying they're talking bad about college basketball. They aren't excited about the sport. It must be because I love what you do. Lots of people as your mom and dad in my family members my down yeah. They're all saying that we don't WanNa talk about it because our teams are bad North Carolina's not great. They just lost in double overtime to Virginia Tech Ohio State Lost Yo. Yeah I'M GONNA put my hand up and say you're absolutely right when he was in. I was like this is the greatest season ever and now we're horrible. I'm like the season sucks. We don't need to talk it we. We don't even like twenty. I think I'm not gonNA apologize because every fans that way every single person that's accusing that of like if you're saying you're state fan you're like this season degree. What are you talking? What about you know damn well? The wheels fall off. You're going to be like never mind. It changed my mind. This sucks. Yeah I've officially Ashley hit the panic button. how's nate. It's official so I don't know if anyone's keeping score at home if you don't have a button for you but I think the last couple of weeks I've been just trying to like ignore it. I've I'm just brushing it under the rug trusting that something will figure we'll figure it out but losing minute. There's there's no shame in losing two minutes this Minnesota team like they're obviously not great. There were kind kind of a bubble team right now but like they're they're going they're probably GonNa make the tournament right. I don't know it's not like it's not like you lost the northwestern or whatever but Ohio state already lost at Minnesota. And we've lost. God knows how many games in a row at this point. I think we've like one and six in our last seven since we're since you and I saw housed Kentucky Vegas and coach Cal. Said this is the best team in the country country and right to my yes he looked at me and said Ohio State is the best team about Kris almoner being chummy in the post game interview asking him. Do you have a message for the haters. And all of this is happening house status since then in the one win is versus Nebraska at home But I I was just I was just thinking you know just the start of conference. Play upsets happened happened. They're figuring it out. The loss of Minnesota interrupt itself is not bad. But when you've lost that many games and you've already lost Minnesota so you like you're going into this game knowing Minnesota's already beaten you. You can't get swept by Minnesota you can't you gotTa Win One of these Games to get the season back on track and we still lose the Minnesota Marcus car. I don't know who this guy is. I knew boom from the first game. I tried to block him out of my mind. I don't know where he came from the car family as a whole yes all face car. Last I'm thirty five any always a problem. Cars is GonNa come where it's going to be the quarterback scheme staying ruined the program at some point. Oh Oh it's ridiculous to me. This was a must win. It was also a can't lose and and neither one of those things happened with Ohio state. I'm officially smashing the panic button. I think we could miss the tournament. I think there's turmoil in the locker room. I don't know what's happening. My Hair's falling out cancel the season. The forties thing about college college basketball is that every team for whatever reason seems to have a panic button every program is like ready to hit it. Oh Yeah and what I ask is what who's panic button in the studio by the way who comes when you hit the panic button when you call nine one. Obviously you know ambulance cops. Whoever may be but when you didn't panic button in college basketball is it to get an underwood coach? You ought to fix things. Or it's just a declaration that you can no longer. We don't care what I'm saying is I don't care what I'm what I'm telling the world is that you can no longer roast me on twitter when my team loses because I'm already roasting myself. I've already hit the panic button. I'm hitting you Jack. Button were losers this year. It's over so so don't tweet to me. Stop tweet enemy yeah. That's that's what the panic button is. I think I duNno Chris Oltman in Ohio Book. They forgot the one rule. Vegas which is whatever happens. The biggest had sustained vegas. Yeah something happened. What happened? Was One good basketball. Played stated something happened guess. What happened is Ohio state really very very well? I'M GONNA blame coach Holdman we love. We're GONNA BLAME VEGAS Ohio. y'All take your team to Vegas. dwayne Washington was suspended. Luther Mahama says there's or something going on the locker I don't I don't like I don't like to keep blaming You know about four hours to the west of Columbus Ohio. Things are rolling in assembly hall. Aw Joey BRONC Just it was so great being here watching the game we watched the Fox war room as they call it with thirty. TV's on the wall and all of our new colleagues league's We were trying to. I was trying to tell this joey. BRONC comes out of the gate dominating Michigan State and I said Joey Bronc is is the litmus test of big basketball of Indiana when Joey Bronx got the funk. I use rolling. That's how it works and the man came out. What do you have like a points in the first four minutes and then I think he's scored like two or four the rest? The game is fun though. Place Joy. Browne Yeah we've been seeing all see we didn't know of Indiana basketball is going to be back right. We're we're kind a little skittish you were saying. Don't talk about but I you. They've had a great start of the year. But don't bring them all this. They Smash Florida state wondering can we talk about the same. We even had someone. Walk in and says Indiana actually fourteen and four. That's amazing seizing. I didn't know that Joey Brunt win a game against Michigan State. They kind of set the tone of. Oh this is Indiana Basketball Joey. Bronx out there. The broncos are August Times My Dad who's obviously it was becoming a character on the show and we're GONNA have one show some point. He texted me in all caps hoosiers with like thirty exclamation point. So uh he he got the basketball because this was a quiet night from devante green. That's really what it is at my. My Dad is the biggest degree hater on earth. Well you probably I mean a lot of fans are are so but yes he got the stamp of approval. But how could you get the graphics congratulating Devante Green for Danny Green successes So yeah that that that was that was That was something that happened tonight was i. You'd be Michigan State allows lost. Oh thoughts before we get to the real meat potato this show Let's get. Let's get to what we really want to talk about. which is this Kansas? Kansas state fight We move on that is how do we as a country come together and heal from this initial thought state on everything that went down Silvio. Let's set the stage. I'm sure everyone's seen it by now. This what Wednesday night. This was last night Tuesday tonight. Tuesday nights ago Tuesday Friday Friday so I guess yes. Let's just say yeah Wednesday night. Yeah Eh so a line to you can text the Halley. Look this up. So we disown. Sorry always mispronounced mispronounced. Name like everyone else does Soviet association is drilling the lockout gets the ball stolen from him Blocks the shot of I forget who who. Who Was it? I forget who. The Kid was Tonio Gordon Antonio Gordon maybe somebody say that yeah. It doesn't matter the kid The Kansas State. He blocks the hell of a shot. which by the way one of the great in a vacuum that is one of the best block? I've ever seen in my life if you just take that part of the clip where he blocked a shot. I think I think the socio new which is why he stood over him. Don Gordon is what they're saying in our ears. Don Gordon the one Gordon Doin Gordon. You got you got you. Got Gregory Block name. Yeah so supposes over them and then all hell breaks loose. He grabs a chair. At one point. Punches are being thrown guys are coming off the Kansas State Bench My favorite part of all this and I want to get this out of the way because I will forget to say unless unless I say at the top was. There's a big scrum happening and friend for. She'll is on the call and I love for an for Sheila so much. He's one of my favorite commentators. His his big twelve knowledge is unbelievable. Voyage like he just knows every guy. He's he's perfect for calling victoire basketball but I love when when when these altercations happened and the guys are accommodating the games like the the brain almost can't like process it. I have all these notes ready for like rebounding margins and turnover charts and all this point I was not prepared to be Joe Rogan colony. UFC fight I tonight. And I'm really unsure of what's happening here so Francis kind of like ooh I don't I don't like it. This is bad and then a series of punches that he's like I'm ready to. I'm ready to offer my thoughts. This is bad. I was died at that. He's like I don't know I don't know what's this is. This is bad. This is definitely bad. I will say this. This all started because of Monmouth. And if you don't remember Mama. Th Busy was getting beat by fifty points early in the season against Kansas and this whole situation set up where McCain's again was dribbling out or just holding the ball into the game. We blew up forty points games over. Thanks for coming to Lawrence. We'll see later ball is stolen. Guy Goes Down dunks it should have been an one but it's not but it's a big moment mamas celebrates I'm excited and it was. He gets a tech. He was posing. Yes yes so. That was the precursor. I don't I think it's worth bringing because I don't think it's coincidence. I think that was on dissociates mine. Of course we'RE NOT GONNA bigger than the game. Even though they were like pretty big. You know the Monmouth kid did the interview like a couple of weeks later. I don't give a you know what I think I got. The team pretty hyped up or something and I was like She Saudi coach. Jr those great guys. Great coaches love. The Mama team. Oh God But I think you're absolutely right. I think if that doesn't happen then I don't think the fight with Kansas estate happens that's what I think there's residual resentment from that moment. So disown has a little bit of that building of this so I I give him a little bit of benefit the doubt but as soon as he throws the First Punch Wjr he knows the way that is coming and of course what we saw was the entire Kansas State team decides. The game is over. We are going to get into this fight. We're going to make this thing happen. Bruce Weber after the game says my team told me that the game was over so he kind of defends them without really definitive. It's kind of a wink wink deal. This wasn't this wasn't my responsibility. It doesn't matter whether they're my basketball players but when the clock zero they become private citizens and I am not responsible for Yeah so so what we we all know that the the that we saw Dissociate get suspended for twelve games. This is what I want to talk about this. This is the real thing because I don't think there's really we I mean what commentary offer on the fight. It was this kind of behavior can tolerate ultimately no one was actually hurt. which doesn't mean it's like I'm excusing like it was head? It was very bad. You can't do this to Sosa. I think Sosa. Let's get to this point so suspended for twelve games right McCormack who was on the floor at the time for Kansas but he was like all the way on the other end to stand in the corner? Is the clock getting dribbled out Gordon steals the ball goes up to the Latte McCormick still. Doesn't it really move. He doesn't start moving until like the fight breaks out and he's like Oh give me some of that and started sprinting. Down to the other end to start throwing haymakers. He get suspended. Two Games for Kansas industry had two guys suspended. James Love was in street. Clothes the the guy in the if you've seen the clubs he's the guy in the black shirt that just comes in and just way on everyone he gets suspended eight games and then Antonio Gordon who also came in off the bench and Who was not in the game at the time but he number eleven comes in? He gets to spend three games. which like I? I've watched it a few times. I don't really know what he you did deserve three. I mean it came off the bench. Relate he he wasn't the most egregious but this is the point I want to make is the suspensions to me. This is my hot. Take on this whole thing. Dissociate was was railroaded. In all of this I think the Sosa so if we break in his down I think the block is fine as we said he got the ball stolen from the block was a great clean block. He poses poses over the guy that you can't really do that but I'm not I mean you can't do that in the sense that there should be a always be attack and it's like bad sportsmanship quote unquote But between now and next week that's going to happen on another college basketball court like this happens. All the time guys dunk guys like kind of pose on the block shots they pose on it. Just Watch High School Basketball Brad Davis and you take charge you pose on whatever it is you do guys are flexing on guys so that to me was like it was bad but it wasn't especially agree ages and it didn't become a problem until then the Kansas state guys come shoved Associ- associates even like Whoa Dude. You kinda yeah yeah is in shopped again. Okay guess it's time to scrap. And then he starts trump buses fighter flight mode. You know all right. I'm ready to go and then So it starts pondering but my whole point was like I feel like he was retaliating to everything. Listen you can't retaliate. That's what we learn when we're in grade schools like it's never the first guy. It's always the retaliation allegation. That gets the the big a really bad. Both people get in trouble or Mrs Johnson. You're saying if I WANNA fight. I should throw the first punch absolutely go with your gut kid So dissociate. In my in my view he was retaliating. Retaliation is bad but does it. Twelve games bed tape. Because here's what I think. Doomed Association is he picked up the chair and everyone. You have the image. This this to me was a whole. It was an optic. This is a mean. Yeah this is an optics thing. Where the headline of every story across the country every print journalism? Whatever was a picture of dissociate Poland the chair behind him It became the meme. You know you've got people put. WW belts on them all that kind of stuff but he didn't actually use the chair and and that's what. I'm very confused by because like He. It doesn't really land any punches. He does he pulls the chair up. People were saying that the coach took the chair from them. But there's I I saw this other angry actually dropped it and the coaches hand in I was breaking it down like it was like an NFL. Catch like you're in catcher. Not Did you think he touched it. Did he touch at the coach touch it. Now here's the angle here's the defendant Bingo. The coach never touch. It is the coach for Kansas. So Soza drops the chair. which like I don't know I I kind of want to applaud that? Actually because I mean how much restraint it tastes to like. Be Your scrap it and you pick up a chair and you're getting ready to and you're like hey probably shouldn't I'm gonNA drive kind of mature right but no serious okay. Fine give the socio twelve games. I think I think everyone like the do the James Love in the black shirt for Kansas state. How is he not punish just that he was not even in the game? This is supposed to be hurt. And he's supposed to be injured the whole reason. He's not played. He's GonNa say anything I'm if I'm Bruce Weber. I'm upset at the table. Mike uniform tonight you also point out that the Sosa. He has been suspended for a year. So you already has the kind of cloud. This is not a Greek already like the they've already done the target but they weren't attached to it. We already heard this. I heard I heard along with the suspension. He got a pay cut to. Do you hear that one whole boom in this sort of where we are with him he already has but we saw him in. Maui is a really seems like a very docile sweet kid in fact when they were giving out the kids I mean look they gave. Jim Sunglasses out in the man get near because he's Oh yeah. Yeah like Sylvia. We promise you can take the sunglasses. He's like get that away from me so I do think he's trying to right the ship. I thought the the note that he wrote every someone that you're right a first off like just leave them alone. Of course she probably lawyer that wrote it if someone with university wrote but again he does seem like he is contrite with the whole situation bill salve actually games. He's a great kid. I hate to see it but I want to go back to the rule. Oh book the rule book. Is this rule number. Ten says Jay Bilas wrote a whole thing about this rule number ten. If you get in a fight you're rejected from the game and you're suspended one game. That's the rule. That's the rule. Yes so basically a picture of him holding his chair that he didn't even use it. Put it down. He has eleven extra games to deal with this. Well it was pointed out to that people were saying Eleven Games from like an eleven game suspension would take him through the rematch and a lot of people are the arising that they just want like the big twelve does does not want to be in Manhattan which makes a lot of sense to me. But what a mistreats having ready to cause as we've learned your extreme close you definitely athletes learned that I felt I felt like Would which is why. This is not a rule in college. I thought it was a ruin college college as well. But as you said the game was over maybe if you come off the bench that's the that's when you're especially screwed if you're coming off the bench and it makes a ton of sense because if you're getting involved volved in a in like the Sosa you pass it off as like a heat of the moment type thing like you're you're in the heat of the moment you're retaliated again. I'm not excusing retaliation. Blake I get it guy pushes pushes you. You push them back and I maybe don't punch him Bellaigue. Whatever the problem to me is like you guys guys like McCormick who are completely on the other end of the if you come running in and you start throwing punches how did you get two games for that? How how does James loved gave with literally? He's done nothing the entire game except sit there and probably eat skittles on the bench as it keeps going on and he comes in and just start punching everybody and he gets a little less suspension than the guy who just like blocked shots stood over guy and then got pushed and then picked up a chair. We're like we're like twelve games for that. Do you think there's any sort of big twelve all. These people are trying to stick into Kansas because they were able to get away with the. Here's what we're just going deeper than that. This goes all the way into the top. This goes to bill self Who Bill Self wants to play for arts and bill self needs to play four guards? Destiny Tells Bill Self foregard lineup if you do not need to play McCormick with bouquet other bouquet is he's already big enough he takes up enough space down there. We don't even corey out there. We don't need to Sosa out there with them. Put the Ford Car Lineup Bouquet. That's that's what you're this team was destined for bill. Bill's like I know but Sosa suspended for so long and and it took so we had to go through so much stuff to get him eligible. I feel like I have to play him. McCormack sort of like the same thing like he's a he's a great player for like a kind of have to play them. I know what I'll do. Ah Call in a favor of the big twelve office say suspend Silvio for as long as you possibly can because I don't WanNa play this man. It helps team if he doesn't play. I think that's what what's going on. So there were some insider treasury bills cells appeal the McCormick suspension. And it's GONNA get bumped up from two. We'll get a call in an appeal and the big bill. We went pretty pretty light automatically. I mean we got him on video throwing punches like no no no he needs more. Give them a few more. Yeah let's let's get in Kansas state game for sure Also Markaz Garrett was completely involved in this whole thing but again he's a guard so we're with that we'll let them come back here. It wasn't involving Mitch lightfoot which was pointed out to tonight That he was standing there. There's a picture I just standing watching. What was the job? That he's going to burn his Reggie Bill slap them on the we asked him. You GotTa Play Msci. So here's what I WANNA do because I I I really am kind of again. I don't think it ultimately matters 'cause I don't think the SOSAS that important to Kansas. I think he's averaging two point it's a game or something but he's not he's not an integral part of their team. Whatever but You Know Justice Justice is supposed to be blind date. You Know I. It's wrong that he got twelve games. And I'm going to say it's wrong and to prove my point is the whites. I WANNA point out some other historical suspensions for you. Are you ready for this. So you might remember that. Cincinnati Xavier that. There's a fight in in two thousand eleven in December of two thousand eleven very ugly at the time people were calling it the ugliest fight in college basketball history. 'cause that's what we do anytime there's any sort of. How do we move on back? Ben Do remember I can't recall what is the play on. What is the rule? What does the move on rule? I think people were a lot of pens on their shirt. Like a ribbon just like in memory of the the fight and we heal does a nation and moved on from that So the the biggest instigator in that one he. He didn't actually start it but he definitely tried to finish. It was the Anti Gates. You might remember Yancey Gates throws a ball dwells who was part of the initial confrontation Does well Xavier takes a ball. Hits Duh does well then. Ten seconds later clocks freezing the side of the face and Kinney freeze head like splits open to start bleeding Very ugly scene. You Got Kenny freeze coming off. The Kenny freeze gets rattled. rewatch the video. Maybe funny is not the right word but like you get stock and you see him it kind of falls down. He's very disoriented. It's it was. Yeah in the words of Mike Tyson. Everyone has a plan to the yes. Yes very very ugly. Seen much worse than holding a share above your head and not using it anti-gays got six games for that. He got half the suspension that And I know that these are different entities. Assigning the suspensions. I know there's different circumstances I'm just pointing out. How funny this? How Ludicrous the whole thing is? UNC Gates. Got Six games for that. We have Marcus Smart. You remember went into the crowd when Texas Tech when you're plane at Texas Tech where he was called a piece of crap he then goes into the crowd? Shove Fan and I'm not sticking up for the fan. The Fan is an idiot. Jeff or was his name He got the Jeff War guy suspended for the rest of the season. He was told. Don't suspend yeah that's a fair. Yeah I'm I'm on board with that one. Yeah that's good. Margaret Smart goes into the crown of it gets three game suspension. Okay Gerald Henderson when he go back yes tag tyler. Hands ruined on the face and had to be a long time one game suspension indefinite and definite one game suspension coach case. You might remember also in two thousand eleven big year for college basketball fights. Georgetown played an exhibition. They want on an exhibition tour in China in twenty eleven. Nasty Fight Briggs. Alex I actually we watch the tape today. A Chinese player picks up a chair puts his head to use. It could good but I want because again. It's just basketball game with move up so that that was. That was actually ugly. If you actually read watch the thing guys are running all replace your in China. So there's like the part of like what's going to happen here like is there any recourse whatsoever that the authorities are just going to side with the Chinese players. We're screwed so it was really really bad. So between the Chinese players and the Georgetown players there was a grand total of zero game suspension domestic turf it's fine and nineteen seventy-two which is actually the worst fight that ever happened When corky Taylor of Minnesota And I'm not bringing this up just because Minnesota Soda. The Peterhouse David one nine hundred eighty two Minnesota state We're playing in the barn corky. Taylor helps up. Lewke look what he falls to the ground. He helps me tunes though the whole scene picks them up newsmen the the balls as he's helping them off the court the Crisp later Ron a behavior. I think how you pronounce his last name. Steps on lucrative comes off the bench. He'd found out in the game comes running out. Start Stopping on Woody's head. The both those guys are suspended for the year. So that's not the point but Dave Winfield. Yes that Dave Winfield was on the Minnesota team. He came off the bench. And here's the report from sports illustrated sports illustrated reporter. That winfield leapt on top of Ohio states. Mark Mark Whitacre when he was down in him five times with his right fist on the face and head. Meanwhile Witty was removed on Richard. Yeah removed on a stretcher suffering from a concussion and a Gash in that required stitches at the university hospital. Two of his buckeyes teammates also hospitalized. I I would argue. That fight was probably worse than Silvio. Disown putting a chair So Dave winfield throws five punches at least since people to the hospital zero came. Just so you're saying. Is this fight assault. Finally I Have Daryl Martin of South Carolina One Thousand Nine hundred was playing Louisville. He gets an altercation. With Two Different Louisville players the Bradford Smith of Louisville comes up to some to them tags him in the face and same sort of deal. Where the Bradford's MS like? What just happened? That's on videos. Well sticks and right in the face and zero game suspension so to recap tape. Jhansi Gates. Marcus Smart Gerald Worst Act in Council History Yitzi instigates. Marcus smart Gerald Henderson the entire Georgetown Team Dave Winfield and Darryl Martin all combined for ten game suspension twelve for take no blood. This twitter's fought. Yeah it's a lot of parole clutching going on so you cannot believe this. Well now. I feel horrible because I was like twelve. Doesn't seem seem that bad honestly like it was a bad scene. It isn't very like I'm GonNa put my old man hat on and be like mature for a second. It really is bad. We don't want that in college basketball. It's Yada Yada Yada I put. My problem isn't even that it's twelve game. My problem is that again. The Dude in the Black Shirt James Love like immediate. He goes from zero to sixty at least associate. It was like he has a defense. Your honor I was pushed like of course I was going to defend myself. This guy is hurt. He's injured. He's not even in the game. He's on the bench. No one was coming swinging for him and he's like well. My time to shine starts helicopter. It just feels like that. Everyone wants to learn something from this. You know everyone's like fortunately nobody got her. But hopefully we learned something. What is more What is what does his lack of Markham College basketball? And your is this fight or the time Iowa state fans rushed the the court when they beat Iowa and the reporter broke his leg because he was trampled await he actually tripped over his own feet and broke. I do remember that story and I I always. He's like when people get upset about. Russia is my favorite fantasy rush especially when the guy like tweeted from the hospital bed. He's like I tripped over my star. Yes and you saw these people like we'll still it could have been trending. Do you consider this a Malay. I'm so tired of people the that I heard NEVER MIND IS GONNA make a bad joke. Say That extension cord. He tripped over. I heard he got suspended for two games. Do you have any other thoughts on the fight. I I think this will not affect the Kansas team self status fire bill self. Is he going to the NBA. Do you think he's like he's got to the point where I'm over all this. I get a gay kid hit audible. I worked my ass off to get dissociable and this is how repays me. I've had it all. I'm going to coach the thunder when Billy Donovan goes to Ucla after Mick. Cronin's absolutely not but I would love to be the case I will say there's about Kansas one. It really doesn't matter about the basketball for their team. Like you said dissociate really doesn't play. So this is a nonstarter really Because a bunch of non starters involved love you know and I wanted to do something with you this year where we could do a basically a coin program wins. We had to figure out what sort of currency this coach. I JUST TRY TO BUILD UP PROGRAM WINS RIGHT BILL SELVES TRYING TO BUILD UP Program embarrassments to see how I can take this chain of command. It's like Jenga you know what I mean. It's like when will it finally early brake and can I make this point that on the very first game so Kansas is a national basement. We've already. It's humiliating their their do. Do Kansas fans care absolutely fine. They feel bad for just like we do So Kansas between the FBI stuff. You have bill self. The Snoop Dogg with the strippers. The DECI on down the line. We've we've covered it in on this program And then now we have the fight. We have the picture of disowning share. Meanwhile you have the Indiana hoosiers in the very first game that they play after all this. They beat Michigan State in a big time win is goes. Johnson called IT ON F S. One my question to you. Take if you're an adidas executive. Are you not looking at this. This is the perfect opportunity to divert all the resources away from Kansas. The toxic Cesspool that is Lawrence Kansas right now and and send it to the the in Djelic. Utopia that is Bloomington. Indiana let all these executives are probably you know in a small confined line space. You know eating noodles. They're using cinching cords to make a fire No I'm kidding. One call that they get a week or whatever and make a call and say no man this basket. This is Indiana's biggest problem is that Adidas has never they've always been a bi level player to Adidas. Maybe this is is their time to shine. Maybe they see the opportunity to step up and They're going to get all the like that based on the Archie Miller does that like basic. David you could say that on the broadcast tonight. Disappointed the predators GUSTA straight up. Call out of the House Great Any other thoughts on the On the fight now. Let's move on to a you WANNA talk about. Let's talk about the biggest fight we've seen on the Internet. Quiet time from three quarters of the Final Quarter Zion Williamson the story of redemption. The story of a guy that is probably quote unquote the most high player since Lebron James is what they're saying He had his debut was Wednesday. Say Night We had a Zion Cam of you went to your ESPN APP. You go watch. Zion's looking beautiful in Zahn was was not so great to start the game and the world was yard. They were gas. They didn't know what to do. They were shook. They didn't know what they were. Just losing losing their minds and they were saying. Where's our savior whereas our hero? Has he been eating too many as a and it was the meanest things you've ever seen about someone honestly and the kid is young it's disgusting. I was disgusted by talking about a kid choice. How will we move on? That's what I'm asking how we get past US design shaming and luckily for US Diane had a fourth quarter where he had seventeen point four threes and everyone lost their minds the other. He looked very timid. He he he looked nervous. Isn't the right word. But he wanted no part of the basketball when you catch the ball and early in the game and I wa- I was kind of bummed out because I'm excited. All jokes aside. I mean who doesn't want to see Zaire do well. I WANNA see everybody do well. It's it's fun I'm not. I'm not a hater. I I have no hate in my heart for any basketball players except if your last name is car But Zion. He comes out. He's looking really tentative. And it looks like he wants no part of it and I'm just like man. This is a bummer. Because like everyone else I tuned in and this is the one NBA game. I'm going to watch all week. I I was under the impression the way type ended up that this was the opening night for them and he didn't really do much much and then he gets hot in the fourth quarter and my God the energy it was electric in the stadium and the in the arena kings Moody Center or Something Thinking Smoothie King Center The smoothies enter Zion was playing and he was getting shamed like that and he's like oh absolutely electric Domingo's four for four from the three point. Line eight four four. He hit more threes last night. Unlimited minutes he gets pulled from the game with five minutes left and Which is actually smart moving? I WANNA make. I want to talk about that later. But he goes four four hundred more threes any hit any single game at Duke. Do you think this is a coaching flaw from coach K.. That that that we never saw on the perimeter and do I think coach K.'s. Living in past you know what I mean basketball has moved on a game by the case in space now. I don't know if coach gays kept. Three's worth more than two. Yeah exactly people were figuring it out. I will say this I saw the quote from injury about when he pulled him and he said Dan said to him coach. I can win the game for this team. Leave me in. And that was the last thing he said. And then Alvin Gentry. Pulled him out of the game and I just found that very hilarious like that's very rookie head coach movie the Rookie League leave your jacket win this game. All right. Go to be honest with us. I forgot that we have you WANNA minutes restriction until you brought that up so I think it worked out favor. I think We we were talking about this earlier. That Zion let's say let's say it's flip that game is flipped and to start the game. He comes out hot and he's he's got seventeen straight points or something I I gordon. The Internet's going crazy. Because it's been hyped up for so long. We want to see what Zion can do. He comes Audis Red Hot. The place is going nuts and then he just disappears for three quarters. Then everyone looks back on that debut and they're like would a disaster. This guy doesn't have the clutch gene. This guy shuts it down. He whatever whatever the narrative will become. I think in a similar vein. It worked out perfectly that he can point to like the coach and blame it in the medical staff. And like you said I wanted to stay in it. Works out perfectly. You get your seventeen points in a row. You're making your mounting the comeback back they take you out the PELICANS end up losing. I don't know how this could end up as we've established many times the NBA is not about wins and losses. Nobody cares it's about like narratives and Perceptions and Zion. Was the big winner so congratulations. Congratulations on your officially the franchise leader. He is the fattest guy in something. Like that What was it again Jeffey goodies like going in on? It was so it was. That's what I'm saying. What is wrong with absolutely no it? It was awesome that like every single person that was making fat jokes just pivoted immediately and just said how dare everybody making jokes. And I don't know it's the same people that made the the fat jokes were then calling other people for the Fed jokes ended leading those same tweets. Because I was going back to start to see what people what's up before they were gone. Yeah why twitter's great you can always delete it. Did you see what Liz tweeted about. No great I love the best off. I'm just kidding Twenty two points. which is one more than Anthony Davis? This with the Pelicans that was great. Do you think design is better than Anthony Davis. That's what people I understood from the All Star team that you ask you all all star Rosters Kimmo enzymes not on and I think you gotTa start asking tough questions and and demand answers. Why was he not not on there? It was very similar. You mentioned that trae young start. I remember I game trae. Young's first game get traded for Luca. He came out he was terrible. He's turn the ball is that he was missing shots and every single person was like L. O.. Atlanta Yeah You guys are idiots. Why would you trade? This is the C.. Version of Steph curry again. trae young announced today through tears starter in the all-star game in no one gave him that leash again. This is a perception game. So people still see that same guy when the trae young. I'M GONNA go off for a second trae young. I did this when we were doing. The end of the decade. podcast cast to the most disrespected for reasons that remain unclear to me why this man get so much disrespect from people is mind blowing. I mean it happened offended Oklahoma because his team started losing they felt like ESPN was shoving trae young down the throats because we got the TRAE. Like we're forty seconds into the game and yet being already has a graphic. This is Trey young zero point zero system and they just started updating it throughout the entire game and then Oklahoma loses like twelve straight or whatever because again it was not trae young's fault it was his his best team he was a freshman Brady Manic and So Oklahoma starts losing. Everyone's losing their minds like we don't care about trade and get him out of here. Meanwhile the kids averaging like thirty and ten the first player in the history of college basketball it to lead the country in scoring assists then goes the league. He tears it up immediately almost immediately these like five seven one hundred forty six pounds. And he's torturing everybody rookie of the year but no one cares. No one even cares about February even now like everyone cares. Lucas established himself. Yes maybe the best player. I don't know how to praise anytime you say. Any praise about Luca Dodge. It's not enough. And whatever whatever you think. Lou Luca Danni pitches he is. Yeah even even after. Luca's already established himself. People still can't just be like Lucas. Great Trays Great. Everybody's great we love you all big. Hugs all all around now the ripping on trae because they want to everyone had these definitive takes that when the TR trade happened on draft night Atlanta made a huge mistake. ELANA's idiots now now it's turning out that Atlanta's not really it. It's it's a lion Jordan situation like the rockets aren't stupid for drafting allies in one instead of Jordan. It's that sort of situation. And for some the reason people will just continue to hate trae young. Meanwhile the kid is is everything I've seen seems like a nice kid. Police pretty well ton of fun to watch. I don't understand it. Tate explained it to me. Why do people hate trae young? Well they both can be great. And it's very funny because as soon as Zion had seventy points in the fourth quarter and his MBA debut every single person that had been tweeting about Jami rant being the best player. You're in that draft and should have been the number one. Pick a mealy going back. Yeah I don't know what to think because Jasmine Guy but Javer Zion. What is it now? Now they're trying to make these two guys go against each other. I'm starting to read through that people that that call themselves NBA twitter. I'm starting to think they actually. They don't Actually Watch basketball. Just like watch 'em they don't read it in and just make memes and then just kind of how they do. I'm working on this theory. Good can we do that. Great big I want to talk to you about this. I sent you this Article Times put out. NCAA's currently the meeting and Anaheim. And I think this is I think the timing of the Kansas Kansas State fight the Kansas who is the big black Mark College basketball right now. that fight happens as the NCAA is meeting in Anaheim California and having their convention to go over all of the problems in college sports and how to fix them and all that so the La Times wrote this article goal. There is this documentation that was passed out last spring. I believe and now they're talking about it now at the Convention Records Request Times. They got they got the incidentally. Please report that they put together and and the people so they they asked administrators coaches the ANC which some hierarchy that sits up up. You know as if they're like the chief justice or anything it's just everyone that works within this whole yes. Yes so the the the big thing that stood out to me was they asked for what is the biggest threat facing the NCAA and they had all these people weighing in on it. You got these great quotes from the public actually read through the document like I read the article and they had linked to the actual document and I went through and his reading responses absolutely hilarious. The ones I wanNA point out of these One Guy said the biggest threat. Is that the court system will force us to start paying athletes and that will be the the end of amateur sports as we know it. I think that if we did a better job to show the academic benefits of playing college sports it would take a lot of wind out of the balloon. All of the perks. Like leather jackets cost of attendance Indi- ring etc.. So he's arguing we need to. We need to highlight the the benefits. We provide such as letter jackets and rings and I will go further with another quote at at least eighty five years old right. Here's one our main weaknesses that we still do not do an adequate job of informing the public about the good work that we do do. Yeah yeah that's it. So here's what. Here's Pitcher J hire US spokesman we will be. I will gladly send us all the good things you're doing over on the show and swimming. We're like lighten cigars Luger. Did you realize thousand diplomas were passed out. Pappy van winkle table all the furniture a a human beings. We're just like no in all seriousness. One thing that did stand out me Was this this quote. Because I found this fascinating because I've theorize that this is a possibility for a while One One guy said are the biggest threat is our membership stability. There is a potential that the highest revenue schools might break away. These sixty five schools can pursue their can pursue their own interests. And I brought this up whenever whenever we get about all the problems and name and image likeness and all that kind of stuff. I make the point that the NCAA is never going to pay salaries. Because that's that's the exact opposite of what they stand for. The what's the exact opposite of why they exist to preserve amateurism that the way that college athletes are going to get paid. Is that like real salaries I think the. NCAA will going to eventually bend on letting guy sign autographs and and whatever but they're never going to say like all right You know Peyton pitcher. Here's you get a forty thousand dollar salary that's never ever going to happen under the NCAA so the only way it's going to happen where the where that does happen. You guys are being offered. One hundred thousand dollars over the table for here is if schools break away from the NCAA and start their own thing. And I've always just kind of said that as like a never going to happen though so for the fact that the guy acknowledged it's still not going to happen but the fact that like somebody's acknowledged in an official NCA document. I found fascinating. Well the fascinating part is all it takes is one of those. I guess big institutions like Texas. Let's say let's say it was happening. Kansas Heavens Texas football or something like that data centre or Notre Dame or North Carolina North Carolina. I WANNA fans at one point when all the academic stuff was going around. That was the end. I wanted to see what you do. Take your ball and go home you you know and that was like the big talk but again when you really look at it. It's not going to happen. It's impossible because everything is so convoluted and interconnected that the system is rigged in the right way for the right right parties. That's the whole point and that's why when you read this. It's pretty hilarious. Because one of the points was the excessive negative publicity the gets sports writers you different agendas agendas. Different values are the problem. They don't buy into the whole success. The vision of the soon. Anna's not sure I buy into it. We are not the problems but let us right about My my favorite thing about any anything. That happens is I. I love the guy that that this is just a tangent. I want to go on the the guy that that always always responds with. It's all about money like when like if you were to discuss this and you're like I I just don't understand why Xyz and and then someone will chime in and be like. It's about the money though like none of us know that it's about I don't know that's A. That's that's a frustration I have this is the people that are common. The people people that are like I'm smarter than everyone else. I've cracked the code. The NCAA is just trying to make money. I'M GONNA share my wisdom with everyone in the comments of these articles Yeah like like wh why I if I was a tweet right now the tournament so much better when there were sixty. Four teams playing games guarantees. There'd be people in the comments be like yeah man but it's about the money Mike. Thank you sir. I did not realize that that that was the driving force behind the study. You for your wisdom professor of economics professor space cash going Finland feeling. No no not that those guys. Oh God so my final quote that I have we thought was great. And this is the biggest threat to the AA folks according to the to the incidentally this is their biggest legislation adverse to our values that is the biggest threat to the table. A you know what their values are money. That's their only value. Yes the double entendre. So that's the greatest threat to the incident as it is fascinating because they I know you're senators or congressmen whoever and tell them to draft bill. Because that's the incident blades nightmare. Yeah they're shaking. I found it. I found it fascinating that there's a lot of mentioned the basketball now when when they were doing the survey whatever we were in the thick of the FBI. kind of stuff One Guy did call out like One one of the quotes was the the biggest threat to the inability of the government. Self is real the basketball scandals a good example. NCA supposed to be the group in charge of this. There's like one guy that's that's inside the system that's like we are not equipped to like deal with where the police like. One of the cops is like I thought the police were supposed to arrest the guy. What's going on here? And that's not agree agree signed for the whole the whole thing but I found it fascinating that the They mentioned basketball a lot in this report and make sense why because all the stuff that was going on but there's hardly any mention of like cleaning up football whatsoever her. So congratulations football programs. Definitely not cheating definitely not out for the love of the problems whatsoever. Football All the all the problems in college sports exists solely with basketball on nothing to see here. Yeah we love the playoff system Before we go we have one more segment we have to debut. We're contractually actually obligated. Fox told us that we have to do this once. We now that we are foxman. That what they call us like watchmen we are. We are contractually obligated to talk about things happening here Fox And I was informed this ten minutes before we went on there. Like make sure you do the Fox plugs and I I was like what does that mean. And they're like you just have to like. I don't know maybe talk about the big east and I was like have you heard the show that only the So I yeah I wanted to just take a second and what do you want to plug date from Fox. We'll quickly again. We're throwing this together. I have never seen the show In person but I've heard about it. It's called the Massingir. Talk about this Apparently they put celebrities of sorts in mass and they sing and then America votes on it and then there was a winner it. Here's my big caveat. Here's what I don't understand. I've been told Wayne Brady won the massingir right and again I don't think isn't the rule of the mass singer that there are no singers like actual like no like actual Wayne progressing. Yes yeah let's just say. I watched every episode Wayne Brady is a singer in my mind so I think this is opened up the whole competition which is great. So here's my whole thing for the massing. Here's the next iteration. Okay now we can have people that are seniors in the field. Britney Spears is out there Britney Spears on instagram. If you haven't seen it unbelievable just go check it out. It's like thirty minutes of free entertainment. What does this mean? What is what this means? Is that Bruce Thousand Different. She's ever gotten the voice respect. She deserves in her mind. I'm sure let's put her in a mass. Let's put her in the mass singer and let's see if she can win or take take popstars and see if they can actually outside. Yeah we'll just see if it works. All of the the like has been pop star. Excuse finally like they just like me. My favorite voice my favorite thing about clips from the Messenger is is the judge is like throwing out just absurd names. No Yeah I don't. I don't know how this your son see like Kim Jong is stated. That's Darva conger to like what. Who would you ever like shock? Akon put Chaka Khan in there. Oh man what the show also want to see you do the thing that stinks to do in a the wrestler sting where I don't know if he used to do it is no did the the famous gift where you had the mask of himself like painted his way and then he had the the black stripes so he wore a mask of himself and then he like appeared out of the crowd and then he took the mask off to have his real. I want to see anyone a mask and a man. I Want Britney Spears Messing. You're wearing a Britney spears mask and it's Britney Spears and then when she unmasks. It's Britney Spears everyone's like everyone so is that the fox up they the Do you ever company. I just want to say it's been fun walking around the office. I ran into the football plane robot. And he's a lot shorter guy though. He's a lot shorter than I thought like on. TV looks big and Yeah we didn't really talk much. His English isn't great but He's like a really really nice gay Can't really turn it. Oh I WANNA plug. The puppy. Bowl is on. Fox's shoot. We work in a dog friendly office too by the way. I'm very excited that we're going to get Moses appearance. He hasn't he still working on the paperwork. He hasn't got his idea bad yet to get into the building yet. But there's that so yeah we're we're company. Is that Enough Fox talk all right. The lawyers are giving us the thumbs up all right anything before. These people were very happy about this. Shout outs. And closeouts shadows enclosed quickly. I WANNA shout out the McDonald's all American game the results The rosser just put out. I guess those are results for those kids. But North Carolina wins the off season for the first time. grads remember and I know that this is Oh something that you're not supposed to be proud of. We made fun of Duke. When in the off season the past three years North Carolina finally wins at four players in the McDonald's all American game? It's an honor. It's a privilege to be here. It's nice to win. The off. Season for once is great for North Carolina Just the McDonald's game in the roster itself we had the roster we chose not to scoop it for the record. This is our brand is enough of the other kids scoop. It was kind of like I could've done the Carolina stuff but we don't need that. Yeah I knew we won. This is this is great is is a great thing about this brand that we have having this having the scoop and not not threatened by. I DIDN'T WANNA put it out there and then I'm like I don't want to jump coming after after me. We are the biggest cowards in the girl scout rant is we can claim every scoop. We'd be like we. We actually had sorry sorry. Lebron wanted August two. Kevin Durant told me three summers ago. He was going to the word. I just didn't WANNA put other. I WANNA give a shout out to Jerry Stackhouse while you're on. Who tweeted an apology? The very lengthy apology to vanderbilt faithful. Not forgetting absolutely stopped at home by their rival Tennessee. That was not the apology. Need the apology. was that his team and went over twenty-five from the three point line and it ends a thirty four year streak over one thousand games one thousand eighty games to be exact that vanderbilt had made a three In a game and it was snapped going over twenty five two teams now remain. My research turned up by my research. I mean I was reading one article about it UNLV in Princeton. Apparently the only two teams left that have made a three in every game. They played since three point. Line has been put in so Jerry Stackhouse's like I'm so sorry I was putting in in all my best shooters at the end of the game trying to get this three point thing. Do you think he knew that that was an again he did. Oh Oh definitely he definitely did. Yeah and the fans were like losing their minds as every they kept jacking. Threes and missing and the friendly. They were more upset. That they they they snapped the streak Then again at the Stop Jerry. Come Home Eh Chapel Hill. You don't have to put up with that So I WANNA give shot up to to that I WANNA give a shout out. Derrick rose and Brad Kayla Perry to Detroit Basketball Titans actually Detroit's nickname believe Detroit mercy. Titans I believe they had a meeting juicy this that cow coach cal. Oh was that the the Pistons game with with Brad Brad had like the. What do you call that the the the shoulder bath the fanny? Pack the shoulder bag shoulder bag shoulder her back and one of those on it's a YSL probably the meeting of of of the Great. The two greatest point guards in Detroit basketball history was was a sight to behold so shout out to to all to all fans of Detroit basketball. It's so funny too because dare grows. I've lucky I've been lucky enough to meet you. Know once or twice. and He's a very nice humble sweet man and to think about him talking to Brad would just be probably the greatest conversation ever and we need to give our microphones up to them for that conversation. Because I want to see what John in Brad and Derozan having common cause Brad had to be such a big fan of that age right it just must be very sweet. Congratulations Brad Also WanNA mention Red Panda is washed up Red Panda. I am to Red Panda. I am becoming a red panda. What you are were to sister? Jean I I'm the one one man brave enough to put my neck out there and say she's washed. I Love Red Band as much as anyone else But I went to the game clippers. Hornets as you write a staple center she was dropping happened. Left and right and and I I don't think serves anybody in this country again. We are a country right now. That is on the mend after witnessing the Kansas Kansas State fight we are as divided as ever Times are tough right now. What we need is not like sympathy and and you know coddling what we need is that can do spirit here it we we gotta stop coddling read Bannon? She's washed up just acknowledge it lying about it doesn't it doesn't do anybody any good. The clip of her at Notre Dame I'm a Notre Dame Syracuse game. Four Mike Bray. Oh my God gosh. What did he get away from it? What an atrocity like? She had a great run. She did. I'm not I'm not. She's a first Bell L. Hall of Famer and I'm not arguing otherwise I'm just. I'm not even telling her to retire. She can do whatever she wants. I'm just saying she doesn't have any more. I think I think what's really happening. You brought up earlier that we live in a highlights world and Red Panda lives in a highlights. You know world as well and she see these basketball players. And she's like I see I have one dunk. That's the big story. And that's it so I I gotta do this one time. I've deliver one time out there. Red Pandas bag. She's over exposed. I think we need to do fewer shows. She needs to do one show week. Hype it up get it going nail nail it practice all week and she's flying all over the country going to God knows where she's shown up like high school basketball slash one person or a lot of people go daddy. Wouldn't that be conspiracy. Wow there's like twelve red pernod's teach you how to do that and there's like one who's actually great at it in the one we're seeing that's failing is like yes. That's not the Real Redmond. Yeah it's like Santa Claus you don't always get a good. Does she ever fail. Like in a big game it's always like a notre dame syracuse like to crappy teams she. She's she's at. The Clippers Lakers game. It's on. Let's look at their schedule and figure out if she had jazz and clippers game the same night she did. I might take this all back. I mean she's just saves it for the prime time she saving it for the postseason. She's GonNa turn. She's at the final four. Just killing it but when it gets relegated to to Syracuse game. She's like I don't know I mean she's a prompt. It's not just don't coddle her she doesn't want to be cuddled and that's not what you want yeah. Legends want to be treated with respect and it does not respect me. Go see bad boys three Respect some legends. Oh what else did I have. I had a a retail transferring from from Ucla for the PAC twelve. Oh okay okay okay all all right. Save that for Davis I'LL PUT IT quickly. Davis has rescinded. His support of Mick Cronin something that we thought was very integral early in the season he has said now that reef is gone. He's out yeah so that's that's that's a precursor. We'll see what's happened with Davis officially UCLA. I WANNA shout out VON DOTSON WHO I. I felt as playing a first team all American level I. He hurt his hip against Baylor. Baylor probably still gonNA win anyway like Greek guards and they lock up defensively and you know I you can make the argument. That they were gonNA lockup dots in any way But certainly without having Dotson out there Kansas for screwed. I told you I remember texting. You know what I saw you. I was like certain of it. That Dotson tour something in his hip and it was not a hip pointer. I still stand by that by the way. Not that he or something but the story they're putting forth is wrong tate. It's it's not true. He did not. He did not get a hip pointer in the game but apparently seems to be healthy so I was kind of wrong but but I wasn't wrong. He definitely the story they said was that he was playing in the bather game. He knocked hips with somebody. It was bruised it was sore and that was what was holding back that is definitely not indicate he might have a hip. Pointer may happen practice or happened some other time. It didn't happen in the bill that I'm sticking by that but It turns out. He's probably healthy because he's putting numbers since he's come back. He's bad when we learn in college basketball. The full circle conversation is there's never the whole truth. There's a lot of partial truths. There's a lot of people are telling their version of the truth. But there's never a whole right and that's just where we are or maybe he did tears later him and he's just like playing through it and again still knows but the point is I was really worried because I I felt. I had my Alex Jones tinfoil hat on like. Oh my God. He's out for the season. He's not coming back. This is very very bad for Kansas. But he's back and he's playing playing pretty well so I I don't know I'll I'll concede that wasn't one hundred percent right. I wasn't one hundred percent wasn't wrong. Yeah this is okay all right. That's IT Games to watch. I I WANNA I wanna say this just to get the people Unsolved invested Friday night as you're listening to this that would be tonight. Marquette at Butler one nine eastern Should be a good game. butlers really a little bit losing a lot of games Marquette Marcus Howard how do you feel about Margaret's Howard. Just it's a lot. It's a lot I'm on this. Our gets the heat that trade like trae young gets all this hate for shooting too much not pass teammates even though he's third in the League in assists in the entire NBA versus demarcus. Our is our I trust the house. Yeah they they they of the biggies but we do love the Big East over there. If you want a biggie score who's like goes unconscious for miles pal Eh Marcus Howard. I don't know and also if your team lost a rutgers earlier in the year it wasn't a bad loss. It's not a good miles. Powell is definitely my biggest the player no question about that so locked in Saturday. They're two games. I got my own Kentucky at Texas tagging six Eastern. ESPN on on that one. And then also so Baylor at Florida at eight eastern the number one team in the country he goes to your Florida gators. The team that you said was GonNa win the national title. The beginning of the year this is this is a big time opportunity for them that one's also on ESPN but you've got the double header SEC. Big twelve showdown never makes sense. I do like it though that it's in the middle of the season like the middle of the conferences. And that's pretty cool because you some different games and then Sunday we have Santa state the last the last remaining undefeated teams. UNLV four eastern CBS sport. UNLV is not great but this angels. It feels like a loss does. Yes I circled. I think the big game an adventure. They'RE GONNA slip. You're just going to call all every day. Yeah this is this is the one to me is at New Mexico when they go to the pit that I think I seem to get state fans can tell me if I think that's the game. They're most worried about until the conference because I think they get past that they're smooth sailing. I think that's the one that they have circled is like we'll see There's that game at four also also three On Fox would you look at that Michigan State at Minnesota. I'M GONNA keep an eye on that machine stay loss tonight Minnesota. I don't know what happened minutes. I mean that's it. So those are those are some games to check out. If you're not really sure what the watch we'll probably be talking about something that happened in at least one or two those Check all that out anything else. Forget to Pour Tarif. O.`Neil my goodness someone give this man at home.

basketball Kansas NBA Minnesota Ohio Indiana Michigan State twitter Kansas State Mike Tyson assembly hall Sosa Anaheim Jasmine Guy Bruce Weber FBI official North Carolina Don Gordon NCAA
Annie Horth: Stylist to Cline Dion


43:57 min | 10 months ago

Annie Horth: Stylist to Cline Dion

"Hi and welcome to fashion talks. Podcast about observing the world through the lens of fashion. I'm your host Donna Bishop and I am here with the Lovely Anti Horth in Toronto Montreal and New York and all kinds of other places. Thank you so much for being here any of course my pleasure thank you. Anne is a stylised the CO chief creative director at Cook and the creative director for L. Canada. You are a busy lady lately. It's been something but it's good. It's good to be busy before we get into your work with with Conoco and some of the other interesting things that you do. I WanNa take a step backwards. Can you tell us a little bit about where you were born? Do you have brothers and sisters a little bit about where you come from? I was born in much real raised in Montreal and I actually was adopted and my parents. My my dad was a professional key player and my mom was quite chic and eccentric. And because know I I was thinking. Like where how? How did you know the love for fashion kind of kind of started? I you know there's the old credits goes to my mom for sure. And when I was like super early baby almost. She had a boutique. And and I've heard many stories of people living around was like looking. Were waiting for my mom like Church Day or two pass by their house to see which he would be wearing and so on so you know the when I look back at my childhood I remember thinking Oh my God you know when your child. Oh my God. What is mum going to wear today? This is you know it was so eccentric for me. You know killer. Instagram account shot for sure. For sure you know she she was she was always and she's still super modern. So you know the everything about that part. I've been so lucky being adopted. It's like was saved. I guess and two years after the adopted a boy so my brother passed away now and so lovely memories of the childhood. What kind of of child were you when you think back to that kind of pre teenager self? How WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF? I was I was pretty shy. You know I see myself as still pretty shot but I guess you know at some point. You decide that you're going to like not be shying more like it won't like block you from to do things that you want to do but I think that it took quite long and so in my teenager years and stuff I was Yup pretty shy but always curious and always wanting to to to try things and I was also doing a lot of sport which I don't at all anymore since years and years and years so I think my first things like things like clothes or whatever you know love for fashion. You'RE GONNA laugh. Came from my love for sneakers. It's crazy no that's I collect sneakers you know like I became obsessed with sneakers when I was a teenager because I was playing basketball so I would like have friends. Were bit older than me. Drive all the way to Plattsburgh to buy some lake rare sneakers whatever anyway so it was kind of the first thing that I was like. GotTa have it. You know that's amazing ahead of your time on the whole sneaker trend thing it wasn't about fashion was really. I don't know something like when I had a new late. You know how the smell like shoe smell car smell. Yeah exactly so it would take like a week or two before would start wearing them and anyway I will stop with my craziness. When when do you think you've realized that fashion was more than simply covering your body with clothing do you have I mean? Obviously you said your mom was a huge influence. Do you have another moment where you sort of reflect on? Wow like I felt a power that was tangible because of fashion. Yeah I think it was during the same years Remember going to few parties or going out and and looking at you know like I was too young for like famous bars like a studio fifty four but I would read or you know that's when I started like looking at few magazines and being intrigued and stuff and and couldn't wait to kind of go out or you know to these like great places and and but I was never you know with with looks and clothes and like about over the top or exaggerate but I guess you know with you. Know being brought up by an eccentric mom. It's something that I always love and adore and look up to. You know people who are like but I wasn't. It wasn't my thing like I've always liked loved blazers and you know in a pair of sneaky Of what am I saying. Slim pants or jeans. And so I guess my my love for fashion was more looking outside looking at magazines. And you know like discovering Steven Meisel and Bruce Weber in the eighties with the Amazing Calvin Klein ads in the eighties. They were talking just the other day about the the Tom Hypnosis I think that's how you see the shot. That Weber did for Calvin Klein underwear. That was the first underwear billboard choice square and it became like it just one century and he like unbelievable. Oh yeah all the shots and century any and put these. Do you remember how big was w them? The magazine W is used and So it wasn't like tack or attach into center was just loose like Like a newspaper. Let's say so. I would like put these like big posters on the wall and so so. I think you know that's when son needed to love for images for fashion images differently started. Is Your education background in fashion? I mean you you're known for being steeped in the fashion industry. Has that been your whole professional. Life has always been in fashion. Yes yes actually. I studied fashion design. So the first year. I you know I always think when you're like sixteen seventeen seventeen. I'd sixteen years old. It's it's so young to suddenly. You're supposed to know what you're going to do in life. It's crazy is isn't it crazy but so at that point? I wasn't too sure I waited a bit like You know for one year. I actually didn't even. I didn't go to school and decided okay. It's it's fashion you know so so I studied in fashion design and I guess you know I was always. I always met some people kind of were influential or helped me find my way through through this but you go to school in Montreal. Yes less all college. Oh using their programs fantastic. I you know. I think they're good. They definitely have a good reputation. I think you know they were good then. But they're even better now. When did you discover that styling was something that was a passion or an interest or something? That was something you could do. It took me so long because when I think about it when I was a teenager I would without knowing like help people with that and my brother his friends and some people would you know I was working with like summer. Jobs would ask me for help or going shopping with them and stuff. But I never thought of of styling at all in my head. And it's later on after after I studied and I started working in the industry but more leg as a assistant designer and pattern maker and stuff like that that I decided to go freelance. And and still you know. I was doing like I was creating clothes for a certain amount that I was doing. Mostly leather really left letheren so I was creating but after a year and a half of that I begin very lonely. It was like. Wow you know it's always loan was doing this almost by myself so I decided and that is you know when I think about it. You know being shy like I am. It's a bit like out of character. I went to Elle magazine in L. Quebec and I offered I tried meeting editor in chief then which I did when he was very significant person. I met in my in my career. If I may say and I said I would like to write a column and I never right never did anything like that before so I said I have. This idea would be about like new balance you know. Our new generation and in anything are theater cinema fashion. And I would like to just do a little column. Would call would be called like Chessel. The date which is a head hunter and and she she really liked it and she was like do you have experienced. Can you do that and and I was like no not you know like really dumb it trust me. I take so but she was smarter than that and she said well. You know we're going to test it like you. Bright something give it to me for like a deadline was like in ten days or something so In the meantime she called me back to meet me. I met her two times already and she then proposed she said I imagine you. I see more being a stylist. I think you you should try it. She saw that in you after like brutalize. Yeah and actually when I met her the two times the second time. She's amazing that woman she showed me these fabrics like from the forties fifties. That was given to her by grandmom and she said now that I know that you know you create clothes and stuff I wanNA give you these fabrics because I never used them and I think that would be a great hughes for you. Wow Yeah so. I decided to make something for her without her knowing it. So I didn't measure her or anything and I made a a shirt silk shirt for her and that I gave her at some point and that's when she was like okay you know. That's that's what I see for you. I don't know if you're interested by that. And so that's how I started. She gave me believe it or not a story to style and she said I'm taking it on me if it doesn't work if it doesn't look good if you don't like it You know like I take that chance. We'll we'll just like throw it in the garbage of his no good but I think I have a good feeling and you should try it. That's amazing I know like that's just unreal. The power of being open to what is being presented to you in the moment right like that is a fantastic story. Yeah Yeah and the woman is is Like I said significant how generous and open and you know I think of that very often because you know I come across Lake young people and I think wow you know if I can also be an ice person or a nice influence for this person that I meet because this was life. Changing for the power of generosity is just unparalleled right. So how did you move from working with L. to having your own clients like how did your smiling career grow from there? I'm I realized very quickly that I loved styling. I loved details but I wasn't really cut for let's say doing lake advertising for TV or working with flake Agencies and you I was like this is too precise you know. Sometimes it's too precise what they want with. The neither are not good at that. I'm not good at doing the legwork for someone else so I was like okay. It's GonNa be fun and creative and stuff so it's going to be editorials and stuff and in that time videos were very legged was like a big thing so I started working with artists on videos and stuff in the west kind of my commercial outlet like to you know have some money because editorials of course we all know doesn't pay and so and at some point. I was after three missed opportunities with Celine Dion first one was for L. A. Was supposed to cover with her. At some point. I started at some point. I was told. Oh she has her own team so won't work so it's like okay no problem and then a second. Time was for She'll US show that they were taping in Quebec and I was approached for that and Was supposed to do it in last minute again. was told that she adds you know routine and someone to work with so the third time was this video director Ala she told me who I work with a lot on different videos. And he said Would you want to do this video? I'm going to do fortunately for new French album and I was like I would love to but I don't think it's going to work you know. She has some people she works with. You know always that way. This is early in her career. Yes this is. This is yes before. The titanic exactly was in one thousand nine hundred ninety five so but it finally was confirmed and Elaine with grade. He was like I told them because you know he said no. The the the are trying. You know stylist. And she's kind of looking for the right person and stuff and I told them that they should meet Hugh and it should be you and blah blah blah. So we did meet. We hit it off. It clicked really well and so we. You know I was there for that. You know my long experience with Selena's in two phases so that phase was nine hundred ninety five to two thousand so just as she was breaking into inexact and the big break in the US in just at the beginning was like her biggest French album. Which is the biggest lake success indicators? So that was great when I when I look at it because you know the the first two years were more about Europe and the French career and the last years of the nineties were about the titanic and all the amazing stratosphere that she yeah launched into amazingly breakout and so so so so that at that point I decided to you know it was taking a lot of time of course was like becoming so big that icon and I wanted to continue doing fashion and editorial which I love and everything so I stopped doing more like I was saying like videos and other artists at that point and so just to finish that thing with the two phases so then it's only like at the end of two thousand and six beginning of two thousand seven that That I ran into in. We ran into each other in an event and was gray and she asked me to to to work with her again. So second phase of great experience with lean was from Let's see two thousand seven to two thousand beginning of two thousand sixteen so when she's in Vegas and her residency there and whatnot. Yeah I actually the first residency. The long Five years I think show that she she. She gave In in Las Vegas. I wasn't president which was between two thousand and one in two thousand six and so when I started with her was the last like months of of. How do you say that the last leg of the show of that show and and then it was like European tour taking chances and in two thousand seven and stuff so This was great because at that point because I didn't work with her for quite a few years and stuff and We were both very excited to you. Know TO WORK AGAINST UNION IRANIAN. Exactly exactly and it was really so fun and exciting and the you know that whole direction of Of going more sexier and Edgier for Selene the tour with Taking chances which was the name and everything so it was all like fun and great and you and in two thousand eleven for the last show she presents in in Las Vegas which I think the name was. Selene only It was great. It was like we decided to go more for that. You know old fashion like the friend Gamma June's Couture Lecture Gorgeous Stresses Young. Lots of fabric in. Yeah or that at that time it. Was You know my goal was okay. I'm going to bring could through onstage. That was never done before. Because could sue is fragile most of the time and precious and all that and I mean stage close is always about like first of all the pop star will have to to wear this like forever and like fifty times or whatever depending on the tour length. And you know you're going to have to copies maybe three maximum depending but still you know it's got to be like you know like strong. Zippers and quick changes and quick changes. You know that's the most important and quick changes with Selena are super-quick so so it was very interesting and very new to have that approach. You know so so. Selene was the first person wearing Bella. My on stage at that point and you know she she could sue and you know I tell you exactly so all that was you know now it seems like Oh this is almost the new normal because you know many stars started worrying or having lake crucial pieces made for stage but it was really like something that there was different than at the time. And if you use SELENA's kind of a case study from what? The relationship is like between the stylist and and the client is it. Is it truly a collaboration? Like would you and Selene sit down together and talk about the vision and what designers might make the most sense like? What's the process like when you're working with someone it was always different? You know from from a from a show to another from a tour to another you know I. The last years were very different than the first two years. Also because you know she was with a man that Is Health was not great in the last years? So the preoccupation. The you know was somewhere else you know and so the things that was important you know would somewhere else. So so she would at that time be maybe less involved than other times before you know But of course still you know. There's a collaboration needs to be a collaboration. Because you want the person on stage to feel empowered to fill beautiful to feel strong because the performance will be better. I think you know. We're all like and not get in order to send the onstage or on the red carpet or presenting the Academy Awards like so many of her. Oscar fits our you know iconic from the Dior Tuxedo in one thousand nine hundred nine through to wearing the. It's such a clear image for people or a beautiful green dress. She Wore James Gallon. Stunning was a vintage. I love that dress and she did too and you know it was a great moment. How has the or has the The rule of the stylist evolved. Since you started in the business it did evolve quite a bit. I believe because It's it's before my God so many things kind of change. I think that before there was like a. You know like a clear separation between a stylist that we do. Fashion stylist would like work with celebrities. Only and stylists that would be like doing more like commercial work and advertising and very rarely an also I may. I add costume designers for movies and stuff okay. We're some of the original stylus like they were the ones. Jiang the red carpet years and years and the Hollywood yes yes like people like on raw or its head or an Ross was still alive actually and kicking it than doing some great work but it's it was quite separated and lake Lake very different roles and I think that now you see more and more people like going from one thing to another. It's normal now but it was quite separated. I remember thinking that at some point you know more like a around two thousand six seven eight. I was almost one of the only ones doing you know. All of it logo was going from fashion to celebrity work to creating everything for stage. Look because that's another thing too very often you'll you'll have celebrities will have a stylist that will work with them on. You know like fashion editorials for magazines or you know like doing some some red carpet. But it's it's not the same. Doing stage looks not that it's not about direction and stuff is just the technical aspect of it to have closed that work that will be. I don't know like that will last that. Will you know live through three Zero Movement? That's required and movement and sweat and you know and everything and the quick changes that will ruin address inefficient if it's not made for that so you know I would like Have because I guess. Certainly that my Studying in fashion design creating clothes for years actually beginning the very beginning of my work with lean like in the first phase in the nineties it was a period where the fashion was very beige. Very beautiful but very classic like our manny was like you know was amazing in Helmet lying At the end of the ninety s was quite stark but seeing them in tation hardly at all very minimal the minimal years and so for stage. It didn't work you know like it's very nice to have like a nice gray Kashmir but first age doesn't work Donna Karen to twist like her her ears or beginning the Calvin Klein aesthetic than the slip dress. Ramo label. Nothing there to be excited for stage so I was doing a lot of leather just before so I started designing. You know Stage costumes for her mixed with like I. I would work with some people some houses but you know the need was when I started with her was so great because she was breaking out she needed like know to do all these shows and stuff and I needed to create things for in order to have some stage looks so I did a lot of white leather. At this point. You know like White. Leather jumpsuits and Jackets Blazers and stuff that I created for her and that also became kind of a signature that point. Oh my God this is like years ago But anyway all that to say that there's like almost. It's almost like a specialty. You become like stage clothes or stage costumes. I hate that word. But that's what it's called usually is almost like a specialty in itself but now a days I feel that many designers I've turned to that because many designers have been like wanting to dress celebrities. The celebrity world is now. You know it's like so important and everything is fluid now like everyone does everything so. I think that it's you know it just became something that designers like could show houses know how to do in more stylists are good at doing that so definitely things evolve things have changed and also stylists are now way more respected that. Lake fifteen twenty years with so much power and influence to a stylist truly has the power to to change the career of a of a designer to take people out of the shadows and anticipate spotlight. It's crazy and it's great because you know it's it was really a being seen job. It's still that I think the essence of it you know is is that. Is You know to to make someone shine when we're talking about of course celebrity work so it's pretty behind the scene but it's great that's now you know the the recognized importance and the you know what it can bring so much more to the table but it's true that Before it was like Not so recognize and in some industries you you know you would feel like the role of a stylus was you know like. I don't know diminish a little bit not anymore. I think it's funny because when you think of Grace Cuttington. Some amazing tolerance like mostly women. Were not now. Of course they're stars Lane graces. God but you know she could have been recognized for work way before you know during the time of you know. Have it on and all? These great photographers. We hear we heard only about these great men you know being behind like these amazing images. But I'm sorry these stylus that created what was on these images. Were as good as good but you know I think that Now how do you say that like you time? They're having their moment. It's they're they're getting their do about. It's the rule of the of the stylist. Always struck me a little bit as being able to see what was within the person and bring it out in an expression of clothing. And that's where magic gets happen as well and as you were talking about how you were playing in various elements with like doing celebrity and video shoots and all sorts of things that reminds me a little bit of your of your current state. Because you're very busy with With working with kinetic outerwear and people can go back and listen to the interview with Michelle Lepage about the the history of this amazing outerwear brand. How did you become involved with Cook? Well actually with Michelle. We created this partnership we we realize that because ease more from the marketing world. That's is experience and having worked for because now it's been like fifteen twenty years that I started doing artistic direction with Brent's with like different mostly Canadian brands So I would work with them on their campaigns on concerts and everything and I realize at one point that I had the reflects is the you know of of someone works in marketing. You know was not only the creatives. It was also like you know what works for that. Brennan what doesn't work like what's the need would you know? What is the new client threat? You can make the clothes you can style the clothes and you have the marketing mind for the close. Well you know I. I wouldn't say marketing mind but I realized that you know this is something that you know when I was sitting down with Like agencies like advertising agencies longtime ago I was like I'm not I'm not dumber than them. I can definitely come up with some some good ideas for for these clients. And so that's when I decided to. You know to do artistic direction on a not styling only because it was like for me like I would see things as a whole you know I was like it's impossible not to reunite these these things together and anyway for me. It was natural so when I met Michel we worked on a few clients together. E was a marketing director. We hit it off. We read. We got along so well and he thought like me that we needed to offer them. You know the two things in hand instead of having most company will have their marketing side like thinking and You know we'll hire some creatives for you know but there's no link like in Canada. We saw that often. That kind of missing link. So we created that partnership and that kind of agency service for a few clients together and can nuke became You know one of them and is still a great client that we Love working developing things for because it's a great challenge because like you said history of Canukus fifty years and there's definitely a in Quebec Lake How can I say There's Love Lake You know the brand is much respected much love but it was very dusty you know. The image was super dusty. Two products. Were not interesting anymore since quite a few years and even though the company was still respected and loved there was like Oh this is old. This is not for the young people because the designs look like a brand like it looked so modern like it looks like a street wear brand. That just came out of nowhere. Well actually at some point. The beginning we were working on the image and we were not involved into product but at some point because I was also doing the styling as we develop you know the concepts and direction and the you know the everything to to do to create a rebranding of you know that brand together Shallan I but I was also everything to styling of the shoes of the campaigns on the other side and I was like trying to improve products but the products were not kind of following the image we were creating and so at some point I pro- I propose to tweak a few things you know like little things here and there on the product and President Shallan. Yell was absolutely wonderful and quite open and you know Was happy to make changes and tweaks and stuff like really quickly before shoots and then adapt these products for cell after so the magic. Yes that you wear. Your citations will be managed all the way through from discovering the campaigns through to purchasing the product. Yes it has to. You know. It's that link that's important and and you don't want you know the image to you know to to to be in front but the product not to follow everything has to be equal and you know go hand in hand so again. Michelle and I you know. During that time like just like two years ago we realized that you know that aspect also we had to like include in the in the offer we were giving and and so we shah at this point also asked me if I wanted to Create a few styles that would be you know a little bit more high end. Let's say well. The product is already of very high quality but a little bit more fashion forward So so that was also You know the consulting was not only on the image styling and everything. It became also working with the designers and pattern maker inside of the in. You know in in house and and develop the product and you make it look more worldly So I I love that. It's it's funny because it brings back. Also you know my first. My first love with creating clothes which is also fun. Part will in Europe full circle moments. Can you because you're also the creative director at l? Canada says A. L. L. Quebec part of me so you. You're a the magazine that you went to and said. Hey can I write a column? Your yeah isn't that funny. It's amazing I know it's it's it's a that's when I realized that it was like that's life is served as some funny turn son turns. And what is it like working in fashion media right now because certainly you know print has had peaks and valleys and roller coaster of existence over the past. Five ten fifteen years I believe even in print you know. I think that it's well. I love magazines and I still A. There's other ways now to to to appreciate magazines. But I think that there's still greg great creativity and it's of great importance and you know we. We try working with the best photograph. Irs or journalists. The both editor in chief of both magazines are always like after. You know working with the best collaborators for writing and everything so. L. is a brand. That's you know it's it's a great brand. It's a beautiful brands. International and there's many other elves in different countries. So this covering it now. You know the big in a new adventure for me but you know this slide. I wouldn't say the big family but you know it wasn't Peres just two weeks ago for the fashion week and Or three weeks stuff to wings anyway not too long ago and there was like a morning where everyone like all the people from different. L. Got together and stuff and it's it's it's strong. It's you can be powerful because you're going to have like stories like fashion stories or articles that can like be you know taken from L. Talia translated for L. Canada and same thing the other way around so there's an exchange and it's it's it's super interesting. I'm I'm yeah. I'm discovering all that and it definitely is great for my love of fashion images and creating stories n my curiosity for new artists. Because it's you know it's just like a nice to be able to you know to to to meet artists. Photograph IRS stylists hair and makeup people. In just like you know create things together and it's it's really it's it's. I would say surprising how you can be like overwhelming because it's too magazines and after all is a lot of work but it's super creative and I'm very grateful I can. I can hear the the the love still talking about your work now with the same part of me. Passion and affection is when you were talking about. You know being young and watching your trick. Mum Embrace of expression. It's true any. Thank you so much for being here. This has been an absolute pleasure. People can learn more about kinnock at connect DOT official. They can follow along at L. Quebec L. Canada if people are looking forward to following along the podcast at Fashion Talks. Pod A big. Thank you to Kaffa our producing partners in this in this podcast you can learn more about. Catha at Kaffa awards that C. A. F. A. W. A. R. D. S. and until next time I'm Donna Bishop and the suspension talks. Thank you thank you.

director Montreal Selena Michelle Lepage Europe Donna Bishop editor in chief Selene blazers Las Vegas Cook L. Canada Canada Conoco Instagram basketball Bruce Weber Calvin Klein Elle magazine
Sports Rewatchables: 2005 Elite Eight Illinois vs. Arizona

One Shining Podcast with Titus and Tate

1:41:32 hr | 1 year ago

Sports Rewatchables: 2005 Elite Eight Illinois vs. Arizona

"Today's upset about johnny podcast is brought to you by the ring and the rear podcast network where you can find podcast such as let's watchable state <hes> that makes a lot of sense right <hes>. I don't know what's got sober. Record this <hes> well in advance and i don't know what the rewatch ables movie is going to be when this comes out but <hes> the rewatch ables podcast will probably probably exists still next week they will still be pumping out content. <hes> you can also say hello to your future self who will be listening to this right now so hey -gratulations still being live. I hope hey hey mark <hes>. I know you're on a road trip right now driving across the state of california listening to this listening to yourself and i it also roasting me so please log out do by the way in our own podcast noticeably. I don't have never listened to my stride like we'll be started by apologize. Everyone one who does yeah exactly. I know exactly for moment sometimes a real funny moment like everybody's idiots. That's that's really what an idiot classic one. I i try to listen sometimes and it's the most bizarre thing that got me back <hes> universal day no right like people like hearing their own voice. They're going to go i i i'll go check out the rewatch ables podcast <hes> the the beauty of the rewatch ables is that it does not matter <hes> what the show is what movie they're talking about about. Who's on the panel. It always makes for good time. They have figured out the chemistry of of who to have on what moves to do and <hes> yeah go listener watchable <hes> like i said the reason we are plugging. The watchable is because i am on vacation. If you're listening to this i am driving across the state of california camping and fishing and doing god knows what else is being attacked by bears but we do not take any days off here at one johnny podcast so we concocted this idea tate we we invented the idea yes yes. It was <hes> to do remarkable sports games <hes> we did something very similar to this with the the the duke comeback again over louisville we did an instant classic re watchable <hes> which was very very interesting router film <unk> pruder film <hes> so if you're just new to the program and you're wondering how this is going to go the way we set this one up is that we are going to series of these <hes> for the rest of this offseason. <hes> and we decided that take your pick one game that he wanted to pick. I will pick one game that i wanna pick and then the audience we will we will put a a pull on twitter and leave the arrested games up to the to the fans of the of the program so that's what we did we picked for today. We picked two thousand five tape. Pick this thousand five illinois versus arizona zona alita game <hes> great pick all time classic game all time classic comeback and that's where we're going to talk about today. You know it's a great game when you have no vested vested interests and is still sticks in your mind which is the whole point of this as we were going through games. Obviously we have our own affinities for certain programs certain teams but this is again that i have no stake again. I don't care who won. This game facts illinois. I probably would not have wanted to win this game but regardless of that. I'm watching. I'm enjoying and i can't wait to talk about it. We are going to talk about. We're going to do our best to dive into every single day. We as we were recording this. We just got done watching it ten minutes ago so everything is very fresh brains and this. This has the potential <hes> kyle <hes> plug. You're not gonna has the potential to be like a five hour podcast because there's a lot to break down in this thing <hes> it was it was as i said an all time classic game and we're going to do our best to talk about everything but first salim daughter meyer thanks illinois and white and red the arizona. Arizona's eighteen thousand ran all right as i said we are recording this well in advance <hes> for those of you who care about this kind of stuff. It is a monday august fifth so when we release the thirteenth so it's not eight days ahead <hes> i don't know i like to give people the date so if something crazy happens and we're not referencing it they're wondering why the hell are you not talking about that. We are in my apartment apartment here. In los angeles california of the cruise the gang's all here college here and here. Obviously i am here moses here sleeping on the floor <hes>. This is the sunny in philadelphia monday six o'clock we we we just got done watching the game <hes> and as i said we're we're going to dive into it but i want to start. Take <hes> you could pick any game in the world. I said this in the little pre roll. We allowed each other to pick any game that we wanted any n._c._a._a. Tournament game you chose this game. This was your selection. Take a take a little bit of time and explain to the people why this was your selection. I am not really man monologues at did not something that i <hes> lean on a lot of my life but i will say this. Let me take you back to a time. This is a time where brad and angelina have decided to get divorced. This is a time where netflix was just a place place where hey they'll send you d._v._d.'s in the mail. That's pretty interesting. This is a time where i wanted to go see war of the worlds starring tom cruise. This is iran live. This is where we are college basketball for me. At this time was a post matt darty era. It was a time where i have found other players to lean on in in the abyss of matt daddy basketball so during this period there are certain people that i really enjoy watching juan dixon. One of those people really really fell in love with juan dixon what he it was about john gilchrist right after him another guy. They're not mailing guys but over time you found different people one of those guys that i fell in love with so much so that it was the first full a uniform i've ever ordered to my house. Unfortunately it was extra large unfortunately ozzy young man so i now i couldn't wear that many any my brother wears it. All the time arizona wildcats salim stoudamire shorts. He wears everywhere. I saw the number twenty jersey so william saw him. I was my favorite player. He compared himself to michael jordan all the time and that was in both a very humble fashioned invariably you know not so humble fashion and those are the players always enjoyed. I remember watching him at shot against oklahoma state in this tournament around before he again compared himself to michael jordan said is to do this all the time count it out new where the shot was boom whom hit seventy nine seventy eight so i'm i'm all invested in salim stoudamire so in this game is going on the number one team in the country all year obviously is ill annoy. Everyone's talking about illinois. North north carolina at the time was number two in the country but still i am in like a p._t._s._d. In the d. stands for dirty. You know i'm at a point where all i'm thinking about a certain players and not getting my hopes up so one of those guys. I'm really excited about watching salim stottlemyre. My favorite player possibly take out the top team in the country so north north carolina has an easier path to the title them and we don't want to think about this. This is all about these two teams each other. Were so excited about arizona. They just hit the shot lute golsen seventy years old arizona's at this kind of apex point of everyone's kind of remembering the good old days but lute olson. He's getting the whole. This guy created a family atmosphere spirit. This is what does he doesn't say. Cuss word says bologna and say holy toledo shit. You know what i mean so this is and that was at at the time the coaches. I looked up to again. I'm dean smith mold of coaches road wholesome fiddle out of the mold of that so going in this game from my purview. Its desires owner team with my favorite player. Everybody liked this illinois team that i really respect and i love their guards and i want to watch them. Play each other in this game lived up to everything and beyond and then on top of all that yusef it would be the right okay top of all of that. It's played in chicago but not actually chicago because it's rosemont arena. Which is you know in the suburbs of chicago but <hes> so that adds adds to the david versus goliath element of all all signs are pointing illinois not necessarily running away with it but yeah this was. Illinois is the heavy favorite i would say for anyone. I don't know what the actual odds were. I don't gambling wasn't invented yet and i don't think in two thousand five vegas would barely hang go right ahead. Not come out in adventure las vegas <hes> but i remember watching this game and thinking illinois's got this in the bag odors. They're playing basically a home game uncleaner zona. Who's who's okay this year like they. I guess we should we should set the stage that let's set the stage in this regard because everyone remembers the two thousand five illinois team <hes>. I don't know if people remember the two thousand five arizona team other than just falling victim to the comeback. <hes> arizona won the pac ten was the pac ten back then <hes> they want their win the pac ten they lose to washington in the pac tin championship the washington team had like nate robinson brandon roy those guys <hes> they they had a pretty good team. I mean they headed out to my is your favorite player. Also i think part of the reason why stoudamire by the way is because he's basically like j._j. Redick in terms of like best shooters of this era and the stats say salim is the best in two thousand and five salim stoudamire head. I think it's arguable. The greatest issued season in college basketball history. He invented the fifty fifty ninety club basically shoots fifty percents three fifty percent from the field ninety percent from the free align any average eighteen point five points a game doing it tate. That's insane like like their handful of guys that have done that that have done the fifty fifty nine and you look up like who's has done and they average like nine points a game. Maybe urged seven because they're not shooting that much. Salim stoudamire was unbelievable and he also has changed fry. You also have a son adams. You also have mustafa establish a core who wasn't it was only a sophomore at the time but he wasn't like you know what he ended up becoming for arizona but this is a very very good team. This was like this was loophole since last great eighteen as moses shocking over here although the very upset you said about j._j. Read again the big riddick fan so he's upset but yeah like you said i mean it's basically slim saltmarsh at fifty thirty percent from three during the season for reference j._j. <unk> forty-one percent so that just shows how great shooter in the tournament he was shooting forty four percent from three going into this game against illinois so the stage is set. He just had a game winning shot set against oklahoma state so as we go into this game god moses moses loving this. He's like i'm. I'm so in all this all these stats that are coming out and we also point out <hes> what was that most is ideal. Whoa what was that most perfect <hes> yeah damon stoudamire is cousins of slim's daughter my and sort of going into the season. They were both seniors. You mentioned chaining salim saudi meyer. They'd underachieved right before like there. Were there was a lot of backlash like one of the big things i read. Was that you you haven't been at arizona until you've been in lute olson's doghouse so about some of the younger guys were coming in like mustafa he was getting glowing reviews from lewd while salim wasn't getting glowing reviews and there were some animosity on the team so bad things they lost the seton hall right tournament the previous tournaments so there was all this stuff going into their senior season so as to seniors channing frye slim sauter taken the reins over the team. There was this whole story about how channing frye was doing barbecues and bowling nights with all the team going into the season and it was a whole a whole blown out thing arizona. They like each other now. They're real team. Aim is not being the guy by himself. Salim is bought in so that was the narrative going in. This tournament is basically like hella. Salim saw going to get everyone involved and make sure the arizona finally gets back to the top. Where lute olson deserves to be yeah as you said they'd lose. They lose the season before in the first round. They get a ninety. The inter that season i'm talking about this is two thousand three thousand thousand four. We're talking about <hes>. They inter that season as a top five team <hes> they they do not have a great season. They are ninety to lose the first round around andrea. Your dollar goes pro little ewing theory situation team. They bring back basically everybody but you guatemala who gets drafted with ninth was thinking oh four yeah <hes> so yeah they the arizona was in a in a position where they they had a lot of really talented players. That hadn't really done a whole lot in in terms of as as we know there is east coast bias. It's it's still exists today. <hes> where yet if who cares if you win you're winning the pac ten and you're winning the pac twelve. What are you doing and then say tournament. We need to see something from you and they make it to. The elite eight on on sleeps doubt admires buzzer beater against oklahoma state and they they're playing illinois. Well they built a big lead and then it happens <hes> <hes> illinois as we know was was also unbelievable this season and i think we should we should spend some time like kinda. Put into context oil. How good illinois was because. I think everyone remembers illinois. In two thousand and five enters this game having only lost one game they lose at idaho state <hes> masol vestige the shot and other explain it telling you today <hes> as we were like kind of watching the game in prepping for this <hes> you know how you know that illinois always a great team when when massive esther the guy who hits the buzzer beater to beat illinois is still very very famous in columbus ohio <hes> and if you really step back and think about that was the last game of the regular season right in-house day was ineligible for the postseason so that was like that was that was a big deal for for house because what were they eligible. <hes> this <hes> listen this is this is this premodern doesn't count you gotta. Do it like has got a state was ineligible. Just sounds could be n._c. State iowa who knows date but the date. I was saying like <unk> honestly this is this is one thing that that that just shows. How great illinois is that massive ester. His one shot to be a team in a regular season game and fifteen years later almost he's still famous in in columbus ohio in football town because he hit one shot to be one and that speaks to just how great illinois was like you beat the unbeatable the team you did it met more famous christian wofford in india or matt soviets. Yeah like christian watt for it's the same thing it's like when people remember you for like really step back and think about that shot really should matter that much didn't win anything in terms of a trophy but but it does matter because this is what makes college basketball grades. These games do matter if this happens in the n._b._a. Like february game like the ben simmons to shot to beat the celtics what events evans at a shot waste wake up. It's not like it's not like everyone's remembering that shot that bit but you know that's how i remember. That's for sure <hes> yeah. No i know exactly what you're saying. I will say it just in general nobody illinois team. We were talking about this. One was the moment in that season where his illiinois played carolina the year before three or four thousand first time i saw this irritation asian of illinois team and they played in greensboro coliseum. Carolina won that game. I think it was eighty eight eighty one seven points but the whole game. You're like man illinois. It's a really really good basketball team and then we go into this season. A lot of people were questioning even send the broadcast like we know what is bruce. We're going to do with illinois. Can you bring them back to the promised swam. They've been no final four since nineteen eighty-nine. This whole thing is about what will bruce weber do but we remember in the victim challenge. Because of course we remember these are the games names that we watch and wake forest ended up being the number one team in the country one point during the season with chris ball justin gray toront- down that whole crowd eric williams they got blown own out by this illinois name and that was the moment that everyone was like oh wait a second. These guys aren't just big ten really good because the big ten wasn't at that year. It was just like this team is legitimate because wake forest is a potential number one seed team now. Hang on a second. The big ten had three teams in the league eighth season the at the end of the saying but you the regular season. Everyone was like how good is illinois. They're being everybody. I think you make a great point. Illinois won the big ten year before <hes>. They basically bring the entire team back which i guess is. Is it another wrinkle going into this arizona illinois gaming. Basically this was an era of college basketball. Where like you you win. Things guys do come back like illinois won. The big ten brought brought. Everyone back and relentless runs back in. Let's do it again. <hes> same thing with arizona. They basically just lost equal dollar <hes> but you bring up a good point because this is this is something as a big ten fan. It's it's the the hard truth that you have to swallow which is that. Are we really a good team. Are we big ten gooden and this is like every great big. Ten team has this question of of our we actually can. We actually win the national title or is it like we have a pretty good team and we hope to get lucky along the way and illinois. That's why that's why illinois fans go nuts about this team. They will go nuts about this team fifty years from now they they legitimately were a very very great basketball team. You can put them in an era of basketball. That'd be great. They are one of the great all-time college basketball teams in no-holds-barred. You don't need any caveats. We don't do ranks lists or any of that stuff here on this program but i should say that every single time you see a twenty first century best team to ever win a title. It's pretty much unanimous that it is illinois yeah every single time and that's not five illinois team same. It's not <hes> it's not just because they they went thirty five and one or whatever was before losing or <hes>. It's it's not just because of the record. It's just the way they played they. They beat the shit out of everybody. I mean they they. They won by an average of like sixteen points again. I think they had like five or six games or even decided by single digits all season. Their biggest deficit of the season was nine points. Yeah going into this game against arizona in the most they trailed the entire tournament to this point was two minutes of one hundred twenty minutes so we talk about like i. I certainly talk about it. A lot. How the big ten does not win national titles and we have all these teams that finished second and when he looked down at the list of the teams that do finished finished second that have that have been resists michigan state won in two thousand. There's a long list of teams that have have lost the title game. <hes> a lot of these teams were being honest. I like the the big ten good like the most obvious examples oh to indiana which we'll talk about when we would do my remarkable <hes> there are five see they weren't there was just like a fun little run run they had you got like oh nine michigan state like no one thought they had any chancing yeah we had the whole white car crisis in detroit and the whole thing so there's that but it was like as far as basketball wall north carolina's gonna kick their ass twenty thirteen michigan was good enough to win the title obviously but they had defensive problems and i don't think i don't think he didn't even win the big ten that year. I don't think when you were watching michigan in a twenty thirteen year like that is an all time great team. They were very good but like you know same thing with like twenty eighteen michigan they they really score that well. They had a great run whatever <hes> but every every so often these teams like like i would throw seven ohio state in there that we were very very good like a great team. I think twenty fifteen wisconsin counts uh-huh and five illinois. I don't know where i'm going with this. I'm basically saying that like there's as as a big fan who watches this stuff. <hes> not all national runner ups moore are created. Equal is what i made and two thousand five illinois was every bit as good as any team. We've ever seen in college basketball <hes> yes so that's that that's going. It went into this game. Those with those were the stakes and everyone knew this. Everyone knew illinois was that good going in and <hes> that's how we got your tape and it was one of those things who were the entire arena. If you didn't believe leave that illinois basketball was on the precipice of entering a new era of boom where everyone is so pumped about. I just watched his broadcast. See the fans that are there see the amount of orange in building here the <unk> the crowd chanting the entire time. I mean they are locked in. Everyone is saying it isn't it is a full on this is chicago basketball on this is what we do here. Yes us and it was like a culmination. It was like l like the the the program had been blue hinson and built his program than been to the final afford eighty nine then he kind of handed over to bill self bill self takes it and turns it into what he turned it into a great winning big and it's like a legitimate gripe program but we need the culmination. We need this to lead to something and that was two thousand. Five illinois is like this is the culmination. It's happening as all happening or played in indianapolis chicago chicago in saint. Louis is our path through national title tate. That's the that's what they drew is like. Could it be anymore. Obvious we are winning the title this year we're this is it it's all happening and and the sitting over there close and i will say like getting to a final form in the big question honestly is like we talked about it. Like how do we he. What is the combination of all that. I mean still going to that final four and being you know thirty five and one or whatever was going into the title game that is in and of itself elf so impressive and so i mean it goes back to like that kentucky team in two thousand fifteen. I'm yeah we remember them in attached to the wisconsin team because they beat them you know can you knock off goliath. We all remember the david moments. Even if you're not really a david so <hes> i don't know illinois in this game and we're going to get into the game right now but it was it was something something amazing in the sense that we see three talented talented guards that were so uniquely different but also willing to work together and i think that was interesting part with desire has only going into a because we knew a little bit about sort of the split between the three and they're backboard whether it secure like the younger guy i like trying to kickstart a meyer spot and start myers a little bit more loose and lute olson is kinda harder on him and then there are so many like backstories all his stuff with all these guys and interesting part. We pointed out as we're watching his one. They invented the guideline. <hes> it is interesting. <hes> this was controversial. I don't i don't know how to phrase it <hes> the three looking back now. It's the most obvious thing in the world like yeah you have. Three guys are really really good. <hes> of course you play three r line lineup but i think we should for for younger people <hes> explain to them that it's not like bruce. Weber was revolutionary by doing this that that would be way too extreme dream <hes> but there was a little risk involved because this was still an era of basketball in two thousand five and especially in the big ten <hes> super-conservative not only. I don't mean politically. I mean that's probably true too but i mean <hes> the big ten country super-conservative like basketball mindset's like this was still two thousand five is still an era where like bob knight was his shadow was looming over the entire big ten even though he'd been firefighters earlier and his motion offense of just like pass screen away. That's how we play and all big ten teams like when i was growing up basketball was like your point guard. Is your short guy. Who's fast. You're shooting. Guard is probably your token white guy who can shoot and can't move his feet defensively your small forward. That's the guy who's the athlete athlete your power forward is like your your big guy that set screens and can rebound in your centers your long linke guy. It was like this is every single lineup you play you. Don't ever deviate from that like if you have three good point guards shit outta luck you play one point guard you bring the other two off. The bench like these were sort of how people thought about basketball and <hes>. It's not just say it never happened anywhere else. I'm again. I'm not saying bruce. Weber did invent this. We were that was a little tongue in cheek but <hes> there was like it was different to have three guys that sort of play the same position all three of them could have been the point guard an if they needed to be luther head a darren williams d. round and they just like fuck. It will throw all three of them out there. This was this was a year before jay wright in two thousand six. Does the forego lineup ups the stakes so yeah that is kind of an important little caveat but then as you said what's interesting is arizona sort of three lineup to with with secure data meyer in assan adams but assad adams the difference being assad. Adams is like six four to twenty macy's like sort of more of a small four whereas like illinois guys. Were obviously all very small but <hes> yeah. That's it so that's that's. That's what we had going into this game mcvay days all with queen latifah later next week don't miss brittany murphy and denzel washington as all all next week on c._d._s. and the game. Let's talk about the game. Let's go through. We've got illinois in white and we got arizona and people moving left iran. Eh you see it <hes> yeah no so we get in the game. We're into paul's arena. I think the first thing diagnosed as soon as we get in the broadcast one. I've always wondered how everyone in chicago does not go play basketball at the paul. I realized it's right next to o'hare so i guess all the kids in to the paul and then i guess i'll just go to the airport and they have the new arena brainer right like downtown to people on the recruiting visits dr five more minutes ago the airport <unk> flare zona a year from a year after this game was played. I want to wrestlemainia in two thousand six at allstate arena you did yeah i my spring break in high school. I went to the recipe and i remember the like i just. I knew wrestlemanias in chicago and i was like really excited about that. I was like me tyrod <unk>. Let's stay downtown. Let's like lit up at chicago and then <hes> we we'd even book a hotel that's eighteen and we're gonna drive up there and book hotel later and we we put in a print out the map quest direction so the to the arena go to wrestlemainia and i'll never forget like the disappoint disappointment on my face when like get out of the car and a look around and like where the fuck chicago. Where are we where we're in illinois chicago that way. Yes so i can imagine that was <hes> that was quite wrinkle but but that says a lot about the illinois fans being i mean it is is packed with illinois fans. If you watch the broadcast we hope that you did because this will probably make a lot more sense to you. It is so many illinois fans in the building wearing orange bruce weber does not have the orange jacket on even even though he'd be willing to pull it out a little bit later in the tournament title game but this is what it is it in. Let's just be honest illinois a little tight little tight butthole in there. You know what i mean yeah. It's sort of feels like the ohio is taking. That was the last game of the regular season. They're going for the undefeated season. They're not growing as well. The jacking shots and you know didn't go that well in this game felt a little bit like that. Arizona comes out in zone. That didn't really feel like his <hes>. If i can really make sense of it i should have broken down the film better. That's that's this alabama tap. My chest i the only played for three possessions but like what i saw. Real quick was like chaining thrive is basically to standing in the pay with his arms up and it was like i'm gonna block all the shots and then look like the rest. The guys were just playing like manda man. Almost says it looks like a two three and then as always cutting around they're kind of like following up but then changed his standing there and jay bilas and dick enberg are are on the call and they say zona comes out in zone and then it kind of looked like made him in any way arizona illinois hits a couple of threes arizona goes out of the zone immediately just goes demand man-to-man <hes> and illinois captured in threes and i think i think the theme of this game and and <hes> f- for let me let me back up one of the things that stood out to me as i re watched this i do not remember <hes> illinois not being like dominated from start to finish like that was my memory of this is only the second time i've ever watched his game. I watched it live as a happen and now looking back. It's funny because i going into this. I just assume that arizona had like a ten point lead the entire game and then towards the second half it balloons up to fifteen or seventeen. Whatever it is that was not the case like illinois was was leading for most of the first half and yeah it was. It was a really interesting game but i think what stood out to me certainly from the onset onset is at l. Annoy all season long had played typical big ten basketball like they were super talents and they had guards and you would think that like you know maybe they would run up and down a little bit but that was not the case. I had kim palm. I looked this up on kim. The fact check <hes> they were like two hundred and forty nights on kim palm in terms of tempo so this was before like the people give a shit about kim palm. I think two thousand five he was still out there grinding work in a given us the stats <hes> so illinois played really really slow arizona. Meanwhile played a lot faster. They were seventy fifth kim said <hes> and that stood out to me as as something i noticed right away is that this was very up and down game illinois's throwing the ball over the gym arizona's arizona's as well <hes> and i think that ultimately kind of led to what we got in terms of the second half arizona and you talk about the lead like would it lead to what we wanted. Louison wanted illinois to shoot threes yeah. That was pretty much debate in this sunday. They actually mentioned the broadcast. Jay bilas is like before this game you know bruce weber basically said if they are in his own we are going to shoot threes to get them out of the zone so in this game they open up zone and it works out perfectly d brown hits the three to kind of open open. Thing up crowd's going crazy. Roger powell is not really known as a three point shooter per se but also guy leave him open into three three eight six zero and and then era zona kind of moves from their bruce. Weber gets exactly what he wants out of this from the get go. He goes all right. They're gonna clog the lane so james augustine and guys can't get easy. Buck ingram can give easy buckets in the paint. Let's shoot threes and get him out of it. They do that so check. Point right there from the start to our boy bruce weber bruce weber gets his team together. They hit some big shots. What's the now we'll get rolling but arizona from their their role in we should also mention yet thousand five. This was before steph curry invented the three point shot and twenty fourteen <hes> so <hes> <hes> illinois kind of on the cutting edge there as well of like. Why don't we shoot threes. Threes are worth more than two. Why don't we shoot more of those. <hes> they ended up shooting thirty five threes in this game which is again and maybe this era of basketball that still pretty crazy even in this era basketball. What am i talking about. Two thousand five. I was like holy shit annette shot forty in the title game aaron's holy shit yes <hes> so yeah. This was a this was this was illinois illinois state. They were just they were just jackie threes. They seem happy to do it. Lute olson was like they're gonna start missing at some point <hes> i don't think they really did. I mean illinois. I don't think offensively was bad at all. I i think it was more defensively. They had they had no answer for channing frye whatsoever. None and hassan adams was having his way with whoever they throw on him they the i forget who like der darren williams locked up salim stoudamire. We're gonna talk a little bit. <hes> and i forget who the guard was. I assume as luther luther head luther head was guarding assan. John adams were little wild and roger powell which on him and they don't really have an answer because he's way too big for luther ed. He's way too quick for roger pal. Hassan adams is kind of doing whatever he wants out there meanwhile channing frye. We're talking about cutting edge basketball. It's two thousand five. The stretch five had not been invented yet <hes> but changing fries out here picking and pop in hidden mid-range shots hit a big three three down the stretch as well change private plane out his mind. I think even as i'm watching it. I might make the argument. We'll probably do this at the very end will repick v._p.'s and all that shit at <hes>. I think channing frye might have been the best player in this game. Even though darin williams's pretty obvious answer <hes> because that was for for eighty five percent of the game felt like it was roger powell who was just a man amongst boys <hes> for illinois versus channing frye. They weren't necessarily guarding each other all the time but <hes> that's kind of what i felt like all the guards were neutralizing each other and then it was just like illinois had no answer for channing frye arizona had the answer roger pal and that's kind of what the game become until the the comeback happened in. It's funny too because illinois early on in that game they're busy looking at a channing frye and they're saying we're we're gonna double on the pass. They weren't doubling on the catch which which i thought was injured because they were more worried about channing frye getting the ball in the post and basically running offense out of the post where he has salim or whoever may be or whoever else to swing it over to the other side with across court pass to get them open so they're doubling fry on the past and then he got a he kinda kept ingram these guys on us spaghetti started hitting those long jumpers as long twos ingram's gonna get pulled out of the paint and then from there i mean i it became more of a problem. Channing frye of course defensively had i think four blocks in the first half yeah which is so active in augustine was i mean basically knicks from the geico in this game was due to say he was a stretch five makes it sound like where saying he was playing soft often but he was a stretch five in the sense that he was shooting jumpers but he's also a real five likes these swatting and like i said when it's big and basketball your illinois you're coming up in the big ten. You're used to playing against guys like terence dials at ohio state and who are just like. I'm gonna throw my ass into run posting up on the block this. This is what big ten basketball is and the have a big a guy who can do that 'cause channing frye was doing he's making post moves. It and baby hooks <hes> pick and roll in dunkin on guys. Whatever <hes> all of a sudden he's stepping out and hit mid-range shots. An augustinian doesn't want to go out there and jacking ribs in there. He doesn't really want to go out there to contest. He can't shoot that candidate. He's hitting it like well. He's not gonna hit the next one he hits the next one holy shit who who is this guy and he shot over seventy percent in the tournament is point so obviously out a report that says he's shooting that well but then seeing real life you could see illinois kind of reeling a little bit <hes> but the real story this game <hes> is is what we win you you pick this you said at the top your your little model. You did <hes> the whole reason you picked. This game is what ended up becoming the story of this game salim stoudamire <hes> to for thirteen the worst game of his career. The game that it would really sucks is it's the one game at a lot of people watched him like a lot of people probably did not watch play at arizona because if he said like people on the east coast just don't watch pac ten pac the basketball says so much during the broad yeah as <hes> dick enberg was bringing up an antidote that <hes> that <hes> lute olson brought up which is as like. I'm excited for everyone west of the mississippi or <hes> east of the mississippi to learn who channing frye yeah. You know what i mean so it's like they were well aware as to what they were getting into. They were kind of hoping and i'm sure that illinois wasn't as prepared for what they were as a team at some level now to be fair two thousand five did we have like we had like two channels at showed college basketball goofball. You'll like e._s._p._n. And e._s._p._n. Two maybe an you know. You'd probably get like one pac tin game a week. Maybe a national television so i mean a little more. It's a little more forgivable now. People watch it because they suck relatives from c._v._s. In this game was basically pixelated so you can't walk figures. We're not really sure like pong. We're not really sure sure who's making sure it is crazy. The we didn't really talk about that. The <hes> the <hes> just the the how dated it was to watch this two thousand five's not that long long ago but the the the definition was horrible. The fashion was unbelievable in this <hes> and i- p._t._s._d. With that when i look back because that was my that was my lyra man. I graduated high school no six so i was a junior in high school leading edge of that badgen. This was my formidable years as i'm watching this with very baggy clothes i told kyle wow this is the g unit era of clothing. This is basically like if you wear medium literally extra-large. I literally own a pair of shoes. They thought that they were going to be profitable money for marketing. This is back when yes straight out of cash. Ville was a big time thing if you played basketball and didn't have like thirty tattoos. You're an asshole. <hes> that was that was this era's well. The darren williams tattoos colleague your tattoo guy. I am a tattoo guy now. You're you have to tade. I do not have tattoos. You have to chime in. You just got done watching this game with us a little bit. You're a little bit hanaway stepping out stepping outside and come back the first. This person is a. I had a late night last night and everyone suspects he was drinking and really his plan x. Xbox not drinking you know and then kyle. Oh yeah so you saw darren williams set to did. I even googled him. After google apps for your thoughts not great no it was it was funny because we were talking about it. I was like what kind of minds do you have to be in to like. At the age of twenty one beads semi covered yeah 'cause i'm still you know i'm not saying regret but definitely think about it. Everyone so that's that's one of my arms so it's crazy you watch these old cliffs in this era of college basketball. All these guys are eight thousand nine hundred twenty whatever and they have they're all covered sleeves and they have just like shitty tattoos and i think that's what it is. I think it was like if you play basketball. You have to have tattoos because that's what the like alan i. It was the allen iverson era now that iverson is you know. Everyone was like alan iverson but you don't have any money. 'cause you're like nineteenth. You have just end up going to like the shittiest tattoo parlors say then you go to ohio state and oh yeah. Did you see us leave leave. Saudi mayer has the tattoo of this blew my mind i did not know this. I i saw this out of my tattoo on his on his. What do you call that muscle the deltoid fucking i have no the idea i never use like shoulder on the outside of his shoulder. He has his name old english assist salim and then i also has it on his head man by the way yeah. He did this lady not the nike salim. I didn't know i didn't realize this damon stoudamire. His cousin who also played hurt his own who also wore number twelve. Yes has damon an old english font on his left deltoid. It was the same day tattoo situation. I don't know are they. The only two stoudamire does this whole family thing. Is that like you have to be great a basketball to get this honor honor or i don't know and they just get their first names. It's it's it. Maybe when ordering in college remember who they are in college or anything happened. I love the thought of my family in basketball. <hes> we have a lot of headbands. We have a lot of cutoff t shirts underneath the jerseys. We have a lot of we have. The d brown corn rose <unk> corn rows but like pattern corner like i said it was the iverson influence so it wasn't just like straight-backed corn rose. A leonard has now. It was like you gotta have some sort of design in your corn rose. <hes> this was the era that we were in yeah. It's also the headband air. I mean everyone's rocket headbands. Everyone's like basically swag announced the max as much as they can but also it was a very college basketball game in the sense that one of the first things that we noticed that looked each other. We're like look at these inbounds passes that are like slow and sloppy turnovers and it was so quintessential central college but i feel like everything is so you know well put together these days where repackage things and we would never let something like that happen but and this time it seemed like lute olson was was like yeah. I expect to turn over there so we'll get. It's very easy now to say. It wasn't like this back in the day and i know oh five isn't that far back in a lot when people talk about back in college basketball they really mean like eighties nineties. We're talking about fifteen years ago. It's still this idea that like the one and done has led to disjointed basketball. Whatever it is <hes> the two teams at brought. They knew each other well that like they knew their teammates. While i mean <hes> they played well together all season. Whatever whatever and you watch this game and you're like yeah dylan. Oh has all seniors in junior started and they're throwing the ball all over the gym to start the game so it's not like you don't have made us not like some indictment on this current era era of college basketball where it's like these freshmen don't know how to play guy wish you could go back and watch the way illinois took care of the ball and in the five elite that's what they're williams had six turnovers and toward the first twenty minutes and the whole thing with darren williams like that is not what did dare wins the reason that was like such an established reputation was this guy is something else he always that makes the right pass always make the right play but i think that says about two thousand five. What a stage this was. This is such a huge moment like salim sodomized said everyone's gonna remember. This is <unk> who we saw slim sada mire if twenty nineteen we see him on you know instagram. We've seen is highlight videos right time like so many other things that we've seen a slim sada mire but in his mind nine people probably have been watching sweet sixteen. Does my lead a game yeah. They don't even care i made that shot is go thomas jordan mode and so a lot of that has like the apprehension in the end ends -iety and like all the stuff that goes into the game because you could see the nerves especially hidden illinois 'cause there's so many fans and they're they're like i gotta give these people show. Darren williams definitely locked up salim stoudamire outta meyer but it took a lot of very very dumb shots <hes> which was sort of his m._o. But as we said <hes> the difference is he he makes them usually and he was not making these and he kept going and <hes> yet that that that ended up being the story the game unfortunately but he looked great though the headband the hair he's you got the fro like i i gotta be honest. I watch leaps doubt about i'd rather watch out of my or miss shots than a lotta. Guys make shots <hes> who has moved. He's left handed to lefties roy always smoother you know yeah he's a south ball left handed shooter like it always looks smoother coming other hand. We also should point out. I feel like in my mind you talking about like how you remember the game in my mind i i remember the game as if salim thought meyer head of rashad mccann's like attitude as just a way like your memories were what are they fifty percent wrong all the time when you look back on things so like when you're wrong one hundred percent exactly something like that. That's what they said. I don't remember exactly. I don't remember i don't remember <hes> but yes leaves ottomar in this game i mean and he never backed down and i it wasn't like he was frustrated by taking like he never looked upset and for some reason my mind. I felt like he was just the classic exhausted. I'm getting run over and i'm i'm tired of this and this isn't going well. But are you get taken out at one time during the game and you know bruce things in the first half like four minutes left bruce weber pulls darren williams. That's that's a big time movie with bruce weber point that out because you could see automatic on the bench like he looked he saw and it was like member in the. I think it was lebron. Yes yes oh yes lebron the first litter and he's like coming back into games like and that's what it felt like. That was the only thing and it's it's crazy like my memory took that one moment from u._s. Automakers getting upset on the bench seeing they pulled darren williams the same time their time together. That was the frustration moment. That's the only time time i really saw it but in my collective memory i remember him being frustrated by and it was only his malcontent but he was never like that yeah. What other misconceptions did you have about this game coming in. I what did you remember about this. I think i thought channing frye for whatever reason was like a freshman and slim sought on my was a senior and dan le channing frye wasn't a focal point of the team even though like that doesn't really make sense because i knew that they were the same class or whatever but like when i look back on i always think chain fries younger. I always think that like you said i thought illinois was getting belted by this team. The entire game and then arizona came up short ran out of gas as opposed. I mean it was like nine lead changes. It was a back and forth affair so i think those are the two main things that come to mind but yeah i always thought there was one more i that everyone across the country would remember from that era of arizona. Basketball is like the late nineties to <hes> mid-2000s like a. I don't maybe maybe it was. Maybe i thought all was still on the team. Maybe i thought like i wasn't stupid stupid enough to think richard jefferson and stolen team but maybe like luke walton was still in the team <hes>. I thought there was like one more guy like that. Maybe it was equal that i thought i don't know but i i always thought there is one all more guy <hes> speaking of which two thousand one way and setting the state. I don't know how i forgot to mention is. I don't think i did a two thousand one. Arizona played illinois in the lead in meet them <hes>. How how do we not. How do we know i'm sorry i should have brought that up earlier yeah so that team one of the guy i thought one of the guys that was like actually on one. Maybe that's why i got confused because originally ever since i thought one of those guys was on this oh five team they were not so. That's like one thing that i messed up. <hes> also like i said i thought that illinois was like just down all game aim but that was definitely not the case it was it was a case of like illinois seem to be to have it in control. They didn't necessarily blow it. Get out to huge who's lead but it just like. We said we've been saying they were clearly. The better team all season. They're basically plane at home. <hes> they take a halftime lead. You just kind of figure that at some point illinois he's is gonna step on their neck and it'll be over up in eventually arizona. Just couldn't stop arizona that was it it looked like illinois kind of tired and then he's going to panic mode and start pressing and i guess is this appointed pipes where we talk about the comeback because that really is the story other than salim stoudamire sucking the reason people remember. This game is at illinois down fifteen fifteen four minutes to play and senate overtime and that is the major crux of the whole reason why this is a game that we're all gonna remember. I thought you're going to bring up. The most important moment was singular <hes> <hes> halftime wireless show with tommaso when he came on and brought up everything about michigan state and what they're planning to do in the next game but i'm happy to get to this point because i think we have to get to who <hes> basically we have to get a sixteen thirty four something like that to go right in the second half like assan atoms gets his third foul <hes> this is when i this is what i'm clocking in this is probably you said you've only seen this game the second time you've watched. This is the second time i've i've watched the game through. My dad is the king of e._s._p._n. Classic being on this game is shown on every once in a while or you know maybe c._b._s. Leading up the march madness you'll see these games. I've watched his second half quite a few times and i'm always shocked the biggest misconception i'm always shocked at how big a lead arizona had and so little time was on the clock and yet when you watch no matter what you we were looking around your leg for whatever reason lute olson does not look very secure about this win not a second not that one moment in the in jay bilas the whole time <music> i'm against god bless him with his hair and all they cut to him and he's like. I mean good news. Arizona get three timeouts. You know they're thirty six to twelve points in the paint like everything possession eros arizona everything could arizona how could they possibly blow this these poor poor illinois fans and then and it just happens. I mean it is so arizona twenty-first-century really when you think about like some some of the things the domino's have happened in the program. Oh i have my notes. I'm i'm ready to buses bus the notes out because <hes> i have the arizona heartbreak run down here path in rosemont illinois bride and benefits what tammy lead arizona feel bolster stoudamire brown with eleven powell nine the top score thirty eight thirty six illinois. We'll send you the grey cup one of these messages from your local station. We're gonna take a quick break to talk about our friends at bomba's tape when i was in school. The cool thing was <hes>. What was the cool thing. We already talked about the fashion at at and two thousand five when i was in school was the cool thing was baggy clothes and yes you south pole son. Yes echo throwback tres. When was the two thousand three was the peak chapelle. Two thousand three draft was great but then the is that the picture that's like the most egregious baggy clothes picture making the band's going to do this through the rest of the attitude as far that let's just that's how we're going to do this just keepsake. I'd say cooled exit data you recall if you had the baby clothes and now the cruelest. It's bomb socks. Babas are the most comfortable walks ever. They're designed several comfort and mrs smith feel better than any other kids socks ever made and they're so colorful literally bursting with color they even have a little colorful be on them and since bomas donate a pair of socks for every pair purchased number twenty four kobe bryant you should she get some for yourself too. We have baba's here at at one. Shining podcast is the only socks where they are very very comfortable very cool. <hes> so senior kids back to school with obama's the socks that will keep them comfy colorful and ready to take on the school year n._h._l. Lockout good really thanks for two thousand five hundred remember. I looked it up yesterday yesterday. Visit bombs dot com slash. I need to get twenty percents off your first purchase. That's b. o. M. b. s. dot com slash shining for twenty percent off your first purchase bhamas dot com absolute shining. Make sure your kids at the coolest socks in school back to the podcast anything else before you go roy williams first national champion backpacks though yet fresh so aaron is one in six in a league game since winning the nineteen ninety seven national championship in nineteen ninety eight utah beat the shit out of them two thousand one as we already covered they beat illinois which is a fun little wrinkle to this little podcast for doing. Are they make the title game to lose to duke. I don't know if account that one <hes> bobby wilson passed away in the middle of that season arizona's ranked number one start to season bobby wilson passes that they're disappointed. Bobby wilson passes away. They get the magic back. They go on the run. They're trying to win it for lobby. That doesn't count. That's like supernatural shit in two thousand one. That's all the reason they want in two thousand one. I swear take that out. You have two thousand three. They <hes> they they lose the kansas in the lead. Jason gardener gets a shot blocked gets the ball back. It's another shot to send it to overtime. Mrs two thousand five is the game. We're talking about right now. Twenty eleven that is the yukon game with djamil horn has a shot at the buzzer wide open from the right wing hits the back iron. If it goes down they win <hes> twenty fourteen dick johnson dribbles out the clocking talking it over time down by one the buzzer sounds and we get the live look sean miller. I think that's one live leka. Shawn miller started at twenty fifteen. Sam sam dekker. Just pulls like rainbow threes out of his ass down the stretch to again. Arizona loses again to wisconsin. I didn't even bring up the quinton ross in two thousand thirteen hitting a buzzer beater to to beat arizona. I didn't bring up brain and ashi bring breaking his foot. <hes> when arizona starts in that two thousand fourteen season when they started twenty now i did not bring up these zone offense catastrophe xavier in twenty seventy and like the bracket had opened up and it was like it this is it shawn miller is finally going to make the final four and you still haven't brought a buffalo. I still have not brought up buffalo but you have the number one. Pick a lot and alonzo trigger an raleigh kids and you get the schick you by buffalo. Four seed sell become a you to lose to a very talented thirteen seed in that is the arizona fans of the podcast offs bags has deleted his twitter and he is no longer following that it is the arizona since winning the ninety seven titles so i asked the question was it worth it was winning so if they could go back in time would they want to would it felt like you. There's no fans were like hey. They're praying to god and they're like hey give us a title. We'll never complain about anything again like all right here. We go all right all right. Good luck so yes. We're dealing with a lot of that and again lute olson a seventy years old. He's on the sideline. One of his quote essential cut away shots in this game as lute olson just like like you know back in the day when target had the towel in his mouth and he's sitting there children's tower lute olson has blue powerade cup in his hand trying to look cool calm composed. It's okay loot holy toledo cup as he spent niobe as that would be great but maybe he didn't need that so anyway back to sixteen thirty four to go in the game. That's the sonics on august third foul. They show the graphic and it goes. Louisville gets the win over western earlier and remember. They came back from twenty down. We should have brought that up to set the stage the ad that happened right before right before this. There's only one team that's in the final. Four of course we know is gonna get the fun for michigan state and carolina on the other side of the bracket. Louisville just beats west virginia to go the final four. They come back from twenty so we're in a day of comebacks tournament works. It's kind of like ebbs and flows so sometimes when it's like a comeback upset kind of day that's where we are so they show that graphic and again salim sought mayer has not made a field goal in this game the show the graphic do this little thing star. Mark comes down the court. Basically one crossover dribble pulls up from what is you i know probably twenty five twenty six feet and he hits a huge three and the crowd kind of goes a little silent and then jay bilas gives a what area code was that from those it is the star of this broadcast for me just the he's still working out the kinks with his little with his personality and trying to figure out it's like you wash russia gus johnson tape and they were like we need catchphrases and we need just like punch lines jay do what you gotta do brush that hair back and give us some some hit so he does that that's all happening and then and then we cut down so here's the shot. Everyone's kind of going crazy. Jackie ingram hits a surprise threes with forty seven forty. Four stottlemyre comes back down hits a floater so you're thinking in your head right now. Oh here comes a real arizona team. They're up five points and start a myers. Just getting ready to cook. Augustine has yet to score right. They can't get anything inside. They're not really playing that well and shooting that wealth from the outside roger powell has become <hes> another being and he is playing out of his complete beyond anything that we've ever seen from him really at this point and then luther edits at three. It's forty nine nine forty. Seven augustine scores first basket forty nine forty nine cut to crowd and this is when i'm getting a little juiced up because i'm thinking here comes illinois roy <hes> bill murray there in the crowd there is rocking the full-on orange get up and they say of course noted longtime lover lover of a line. I basketball course of course your favorite mr caddyshack bill murray and he's going crazy having a good time so here's where that's where we are. We're tied up forty nine on forty nine thirteen twenty nine o'clock. Bill murray has just been shown on the screen. We just learned there was a twenty point comeback before and here. We go bill murray so you know we're bill. Murray was born evanston illinois <hes> tough look for northwestern. Yes hate to see that that <hes> murray's yeah because they because they even said they cut the boomer and like of course bill murray grew up in chicago that explains why northwestern fan earth <unk> explains wise in illinois fan into that i said is northwestern not chicago's big ten team. I don't know i guess not thus stay. <unk> chicago's big ten team <hes> yeah the the bill murray shout was <hes>. I completely forgot that that happens. I i had no recollection of that whatsoever. That was a nice little surprise. In the only time he showed up no he showed him later when he celebrating when darren since the three that ultimately it was the three that senate so over time to tie the game at eighty they cut the bill murray and he's he's losing his mind and <hes> i. I don't know i don't know how many teams this meant cheers for but he's allowed to. He's he's one of the few guys that's allowed to cheer for. As many teams want the original drake a man that does not care but also a man in the building four big moment. That's what we learned about this game. Is that that <hes> we have changed ryan vinnie stretch five. We have bruce weber inventing plane more than two guards. At once we have a bill murray and vinnie drank drake. Bill murray said god's plan when darren williams death rate that is that is a hundred percent true <hes> so basically also as is also else playing outright. We're gonna tie ballgame. People are on the edge of their seats. Darren williams is not having that great of a game like you said the turnover problem. He's been playing. Well defensively <hes> yes yes. They're both exhausted. We'll get to that later in the game with those who being exhausted but anyways he's not having the best night they cut to the crowd this show darren williams joins mom darren williams. Mom is not does not look very happy in the crowd and his toughest critic that comes out <hes> dick enberg second and of course his biggest critic his mother who is not shied to tell darren when he's having a bag. She's in the crowd base. You like if you don't get his first tator. Defy the funniest part was a the way dick enberg said it was he he had a big policies like of course they're williams says that his biggest critic is and then he kind of like swallowed or like took a pause and i was like of course he's going to save himself because that's that's the cliche is like my biggest critic of myself and then he was his mother and i was like what no one whatever says their mother myself no one's ever like my mom is my mom. Fucking hated halls throat swallow mike myers after connie the same year said george talk doesn't care about black people biggest one since then just to get you back in over five months. That's what it was like so that's where we were jay. Bilas also pointed out during this period lute olson recruited him in iowa mom my mom's above five jay bilas said his mom signed with lute olson even though he went to duke so the original bag balm miss bilas yeah gradulate a lot of people don't know this <hes> jay bilas mobster lives in iowa. Actually she signed with lute olson and went there to play for also stage. She liked it. She actually lives there yeah. Eh the bill loves it she. She still lives in iowa <hes> all right so the comeback happened so let's break down. Let's talk about the comebacker or do we have any other thoughts about the the general game <hes> i don't know we we obviously don't have a ton of structure to this but that was part of the part of the appeal <hes>. Should we talk about the comeback yeah. Let's talk about the bag when when was the moment in the comeback that you saw it. It's easy when you're watching it. He know what's going to happen that illinois eventually win but when is the first moment not because i want to do this later where we say the moment that the game was over the moment you like shit illinois's definitely gonna win this <hes> but when was the moment where you said wait. We have something in here because the commentators to to always say it's a long way from over. That's just what you say when illinois scores five straight points and you're like hang on. It's is a long way from over there like isn't it still like a nine point game with a minute and a half and there's a producer new year ago. Please keep the key here. Yes greg. Gumbel has good takes to give us the post okay. We have survivor to help me on the other side of this. Please keep them tuned in so they're saying it's a long way from over but you're watching. It and you're doing the math like you said earlier. Where you you forget how big the league is. I'm doing that as i'm watching them like them nine points with a minute and a half. How do you blow this. <hes> so win for you as you're watching this. Were you like damn we. We might has something here. We may have come back here was when luther head hit a three with three fifteen left okay to cut it to eleven and it was seventy seven to sixty six and when luther headed that three because luther had had been struggling and again if you'd watch his illinois team all year luther had was the leading scorer during the regular season luther had was the answer when they needed points at times a granted. Everyone's gonna remember d brown. Dan williams as they should but luther had was very. It's sort of like if you talk about carolina you remember ray felton chaumet but you really need to remember shop mechanics right but that was the guy that was like if he's going there pretty much unbeatable and that was how luther had was when he hit that at three three fifteen left <hes> at seventy seven sixty six and then <hes> they have a nice offensive possession come back down debrum gets a rebound like in the middle of the pain and golfers the board delegates easy little put back back to single digits again the biggest deficit all years nine points so when they hit the three eleven good defensive possession comeback down the cut it to nine nine you say to yourself and you know how it is like in basketball sports like when you can see single digits. There's such a big difference. Mentally between eleven and nine stupid is that that is really not that much difference but when you have that moment you're like okay. We're back in it. It happened like right in this and it happened quickly because it was like three fifteen and then by the three of one market a time out and it's a nine point game yeah for me i see even as i was watching it <hes> and again this is this is very revisionist because it's it's hard to watch it knowing. What's it's going to happen and then put yourself back in a frame of mind where you don't know what's going to happen but <hes> i feel like it. Was the luther steal their down nine. I still wasn't really because they're down nine of the minute thirty. Still i mean the miracle. Minute is fr- fresh in my mind at this point that do come back maryland where they were downtown with less than a minute left so we know it's possible it's possible be down with less than a minute and come back. They were down nine with a minute thirty so i was like it's it's definitely possible but i really need to to you. Get titillated here. Do i really need to get excited. Do i need to be calling my friends saying hey turn on the t._v. This is something might be happening and luther head gets the store. I can't talk right now. I'm dying up on the internet roy. Go choke you so so <hes> with luther head. Just the steel industry gets a breakaway wide open he he goes up to dunk. It can't dunk it. Yes this one twenty-one left in the game name. 'cause he's like exhausted. He's got the hamstring issue <hes> yes seventy seven seventy at this point when he leaves it in. It's a seven point game now and at that point. I was like oh okay 'cause i. It's seven seven as you said. Eleven is nine eleven saying it i just i was like you're like nine. There's a lot less than eleven. I was about to be like seven seriously in your mind you just. I don't know why it works but it works like that. Whatever <hes> luther headaches. I was like okay so this is definitely something and then it just kind of snowballed from there and i don't know i don't know i don't really really understand how lute olson allowed this to happen. I think lute olson should think as lucky stars every day that like twitter did not exist because he would have got roasted to high hell. I even made the joke as we were watching this and i'm i'm recalling a nick johnson dribbling out the clock against wisconsin. I'm recalling <hes> shawn miller. When chris matt comes out zone against it's a a as you're against arizona in two thousand seventeen and shawn miller looks as assistance like what the fuck what is this. I'm recalling all this and i made a joke to you. Shawn another coach in arizona two thousand five because <hes> i. I really don't understand why more timeouts were called. I don't understand when you have. I mean sh- occurs a sophomore as we said he wasn't quite the player that he ended ended up being quite yet so like it was kind of tough for him to be in against the best. Maybe the best three guard lineup in the history of college basketball to have him out there <hes> trying to it to break these presses and stuff but you have salim stoudamire. You have a son atoms. You have guys that have been there. You might as well senior at some point. You can call timeout or like during ed ball. Call him over. Tell him to stop that baloney or whatever it is whatever words you like to use loot <hes> it was it was as you said willy macro guys lute olson. It reminded me of <hes> i. This is the one example that comes to mind. I was playing golf last weekend and i smoked two shots perfectly on a par five and and my second shot puts me like three feet from the hole for eagle putt and it's the golden deer. This is real life obvious e. I've never got an eagle in my life. It's a three-foot three-foot putt. It's very flat. It's just an easy easiest putting the world and i take the mindset instead of trying to read the pa instead of thinking about instead of doing what like any halfway decent golfer would do. I was like fucking. I'm just gonna step hit it and try not to think about it but try not to think about it and i thought about it and i bring that up to say that's what loopholes looked like us and and he's like i'm not mad. I'm actually fine. I'm cool. I missed the putt by the way spoiler alert ibis the put it was horrific. That's what little lost the game. We lost glued it also like i'm not going to think about it. I'm not thinking about my teams blowing. I'm not thinking about how we're throwing it all over the gym. I'm not are you mad. I'm not mad. I'm not i'm not fazed at all. I'm calm look at me. I'm calm and <hes> that was. It's probably not the approach to take. I probably would call it. A few more timeouts. I probably would have got the ball and like salim stoudamire sands more and they did call a time out with two forty-three left channing frye tonight in baseball again. This was a problem game. He calls a timeout. They go to the bench and you're paying yourself. I wonder how many times arizona has left and that goes back to a dean smith smith ism. Let's keep all our time out there like an arizona so jay bilas like remember arizona's hill three time out still possession arrows everything else about young bill because if this was it this was current bilas he would be just ripped and also like what are they doing. I don't understand <hes> but bilas was still in that mode of feeling out which is part of the fun too but <hes> yeah he the bills would have been losing his mind if it was current jay bilas for sure. Will you know who also should be losing his mind again. We're going to go back to loot also because right after this. This is all happening. These three timeouts bruce weber calls a timeout. He says guys guys freshman so they file mcclellan of course is actually having a really good game. He goes. He misses the front end of the first. Throw makes a second but again. It's just an easy quick foul again. The free throw line. We get the ball back we come down and that that was a lot of like i think bruce weber and the revisions through this is kind of like a you know a punchline as people act like he's not a good coach or something like that but he's doing great job in this game <hes> so anyways go back down shaker makes two free throws so we get eighty to seventy two and we're under one minute <hes> and that's where we are and then luther head again comes back down gets gets a three hits a three and then he gets a steal and finish in d. Brown goes into the laps in our eighty seventy seven forty five point three. That's when louison says you know what time out faster than i thought time. I'm out crowd again. This is illinois fans. Everywhere people were going insane done like every on defenses dunked defense higher arena's rock and so that's that is the comeback in illinois at this point right. They've already come like it feels as if they're up three not arizona's up three and that is when <hes> <hes> you know things kinda go surprised by this. I forgot that this happened after the game. Lute olson did an interview with dana jacobson and she asked loot. Why didn't you call more timeouts and he said whoo do do what would you say <hes> yeah. I listened to some <hes>. Let's let's try to have a little bit of structure here. I wanna write down some superlatives that we could go through rip through <hes> and i wanted to start with this. <hes> which i guess this isn't a superlative this just a whatever whatever it is will will workshop in this <hes> i wanted. I going into this i will. I wrote this down. I said i want identify identify when the game was over the moment you said illinois is one hundred percent. If you're if you're one of these nerves that has these algorithms that does win probability win in your mind that you say illinois. One hundred percent is winning this game. I there's no outcome that is going to happen otherwise as a very tough tough question as we should point point out on the comeback seventy and three run in the last two forty eight at the game. Yes i repeat seventeen to three runs the last two forty eight so there were a lot of moments. That's where you're like okay. This could be it for me personally when i knew that they were actually going to win this game was when luther head at the three and it was eighty to seventy i five and again it all comes back to luther head because as i watch illinois back in these days he was the one guy that if he was going. I was terrified because they want to deep team name. You know they had two guys on the bench pretty much yet. I was like if luther had his scoring years their third or first option depending on the day as far as score who if he becomes their primary score and he's ought that they're unbeatable and then it's happening in the moment you see his wheels turning. He's playing great defensive jump in passing lanes. I mean he's all over the place and he's not as tired appeared as darren williams again because he's been chasing slimmer on luther head when he hit that three five point game forty five seconds lute olson finally takes a swig of water out of that cup even the whole shot wild turkey he was like let me throw this back aisle blackout and we'll win this game the luther head by the way i i can't live brothers up yet when you're sixteen years old and one of the leading score on the best the country has a last name head that is that is nice. That's a fun time shanta bucket. I was living ero getting some head. I think it might have been two thousand five. Did you guys have all you guys. I was about to say your friends but <unk> feels like a kyle move to have the moorhead state heads ads in the cox hat like the white hat this cox on like it was at a thing absolutely like that was the thing <hes> in my high school was like people were had to cox auctions at university of south carolina and then the teachers get mad and they'd be like what goes and goes south carolina like bullshit bill and you don't have a cousin we have college was sands donors donors but it was just the positives donor so that's the way it did and teachers are like guys you didn't go to potsdam. Please don't do this. This was the era scott is the sandstone as well as the high school. I didn't yeah okay. This was the era that i was sixteen and the dip shit flameouts at my high school had more had stay hats moorhead on it and they'd worm around in the cox so that interests interests if your school was called dip shit high school has with a flame throwers of what are we talking about. Oh when was the moment that it was over eighty seventy five for me but i'm gonna flip it around because this is more of a real answer yes for me. Is the popular interest the answer. Everyone gave us the one shot. I think that everyone would remember from this game. Which is the darren williams <hes> three that ties it at eighty. The camera starts shaking. We get the shot bill murray. He's crying. He's he's like. This is the greatest moment of my life <hes> illinois for life this caps off the comeback. It ends up being the shot that sent it to overtime. There's no scoring the rest of the regulation 'cause arizona again again. Lute olson <hes> put the bond leaps out of myers hands and then salim stoudamire dribbles and throws it out to mcclellan in the corner and then all happens there <hes> but yeah <hes> that was the moment that is the shot <hes> it was it was kind of a a scramble to because that was part of it too like illinois presses arizona's throw the ball into channing frye ingram gets a fistful of jersey fouls the shit out of him so i will give you that arizona fans take that home you can you can but again what arizona on a has three so have you looked at the throw the ball in i think mcclellan air <hes> i can't remember who is throwing the ball in there but it admitted been mcclellan sitting imbalance at the end of the game if you're him again he is a freshman so we can't say that so much but you have these time outs you've already see chain and he had a great game like a great game but mcclellan for like he was asked to do so much more than he should have been asking this game and he he he played pretty well but they had the right to call a timeout policy unless there was a chance like maybe we get some background where the chain of who i play all the time out lute olson yellow who lute olson as you said is old man. He's at the end of his career. At this point in time it falls on the assistant coaches tate and who was an assistant coach on the staff. Josh pass ner pastors fault. Come on josh josh tony doing josh was like what was he twenty age six at this. I probably he had been drinking the wild turkey that happened during and so <hes> <hes> that was the place where they throw it into chain fry ingram fellowship out of i only say net to give arizona fan something positive look back on and they'd be like thank god you said it titus because we need something to the feel good about. It gets fouled but whatever they call it. I think <hes> luther had picked up. Those deep. Brown skip pass over to darren williams who he comes off. The ball screen has the three ties game camera shakes going with time running out the back the ball away williams could tie in with a three he second aw the second step aside the team that advanced final team points the at that point. If you're watching it live i do remember watching that that live there is zero percent chance that arizona wins this game which is kinda funny because arizona did have a shot to win at the end not only do they have a shot he hit that shot darren and with thirty eight seconds left in regulation they had four shots a winner at the four shots for government with with overtime included so they had three shots so anyway thirty eight seconds alive bill murray's going wild arizona finally takes the time out to let the crowd kind of go wild. We learned that they're eight and one close games. They had just hit a shot. Salim sada mire game winning shot the round before so again like you're saying that right. Now you're like when darren williams hit the shot the tire that's when i knew the game was over. There was like okay of course door. You're short drive the game but again ed the time. Everyone just like jay. Bilas was like arizona has possession. Arizona has two more timeouts arizona has this arizona has that arizona's veteran close games illinois has never been in a close game all year so everything is still leaning towards arizona they. They've been dominating inside. They've been on the boards. There's a chance to channing frye gets a nice little put bag. Even if saudi myer does miss. We've seen that a lot in this game so it still arizona. They call another time out. Eleven seconds left lute. Olson is getting basically blown by jay bilas about how great he is. <hes> you know like with these types of loose gonna draw up something here this lute. This is going to be if i know what loopholes does and my mom shirley. He's going to drop awesome magic here at the ed bruce weber's on his defensive plan which is basically like <hes> don't let slim's automatic get the ball anyway slim saw the ball and slim's autumn <unk> dribble to the left side and the whole story which i was telling you is like slim saw the whole point was he didn't care about anyone but salim sought a meyer and he's always gonna take the last shots very kobe of him. If compared to jordan everyone was like this guy is gonna kobe. No kobe jordan player exactly you know that uh so he's driving laughs and everyone's salim is gonna take a hero shot. It's going to be a bad shot at he's thinking himself. Everybody thinks i'm gonna take a bad shot pass so he does the class so he passes it and then we get a bad shot from of course the freshman and a again who he keeps piling on him but he he misses the shot gets tipped over in the corner channing frye gets his best block of the game he blocks d brown trying to throw it up the court and it goes into the hands of salim sought admire and slim saw says you know what they were wrong. Ah i am not i am not. I am not going to pass it anymore. Jump shot meanwhile chicago's riot wide open right to the right of him. Could it probably taken a step like flip at the bottom. Salvin shot at three anyways taught him. I go straight up. Gets blocked ball comes back down. Adams grabs it. Last-second heave gets barely to the basket were going into overtime and it was like the coordination that's why it hurts me as williams auburn fan because he gets so many bad knocks always and then he tries to make the right play. It doesn't work out so then any reverts back to his old ways. It doesn't work out and then it just never worked out and get a job. The d brown passed by the way is is my big one from this game. Yes <unk> for two reasons <hes> so he he gets the a._d. At this point yeah as we said mcclellan puts a shot of debrecen gets the ball and he goes to throw a baseball pass dare way of just takes off running and was wide open. If d brown throws the baseball pass darren williams. Darren williams dunks it at the buzzer. We get like dennis smith in cameron situation except it actually counts. I didn't even mean that is i didn't read that as like a vacated thing i bet that as his duck dad for the buzzer so double onto eh that that i realized that as i said so what if for that because as much as the thing shaken when darren williams hit the three imagined illinois oy capping off his comeback in regulation with d brown throwing the outlets darren williams whose wide open and there's nothing arizona players do and they're like full sprint. They're like the assholes rec league basketball. They're like trying to you know full sprint fouled the guy like i would have been unbelievable to see dunk the ball at the buzzer to win the game and i i only know what the scene would've looked like so there's that what have but then the ball gets deflected so then the new what if becomes holy shit what if sleeps because at this point it's just disarray. Oh it's not just absolute flu chaos so it's easy to say like luther head was always going to be there. He was not always go. There's no there's no guarantee that any of these players are going to be anywhere on the court that they ended up and the the ball say luther head is three steps more to the sideline than he was and salim stoudamire the best shooter in college basketball. Maybe one of the greatest shooters college basketball's ever seen had the greatest shooting season college. Basketball scene gets a wide open. Look at the top of the key. It just catches at the time so it all my gods that is completely blatantly dead that would have been doing the same solder myers remembered as one of the greatest shots like a leitner type shot though we always should lead back to back it would have been like he hits the shot against oklahoma oklahoma state. He hits the shot against illinois. Like who is this guy rambling. Kimba walker talks about like does run that salim solder myers. He drafted like seventh in the draft that year. He starts shooting threes in the n._b._a. They're like oh my god. This guy's a three point revolutionized steph curry comes along. They're like already seen it but we've already seen it before. Who's this and steph doesn't make the league and then the warriors don't win titles. Steve kerr's probably out of a job at this point and lebron probably has h. I'll just keep going going lebron has eight championships now roy and greg oden koresh over five hundred titles that was <hes>. I think that was something that as you're watching it it just kinda gets deflected. Arizona doesn't get the shot off news kind of move on <hes> because that's probably what you're supposed to do like it probably doesn't serve us well to play what if games but that's kind of the one of the podcast right is like you just have some fun and do hypothetical shit like that and that was my big. What is like that play. It could have gone differently in so many ways so many ways season because it was absolute chaos at the end of the game at the end of regulation i mean and it could've been it could've been very connick for all the right reasons all the wrong reasons either away deep brown could be you know it's if saudi my hits. That deeb round is i. I go to go the the lower case go well that brings me to what we wanna do here. The go-to goten was you start the lower case. Go okay the original. Go the meaning that we all knew of when we were coming up when you were playing pickup escobar any sorta support outside and someone did something really dumb like i dunno dribbled off their foot and you go bold. He's such a goat again. I cannot believe go eight friend. Yeah yeah steve. Marvin was the original outfit that turned into fit. You took off the front part of it and then they just go so anyways the golden this game is it's very very hard for me to pick one in particular four arizona but i think it goes back to a guy that's sitting on the bench but twiddling his thumbs or whatever he's up to. Josh passover associated percents easily goat in this game because lute olson seventy years old. He's got a lot going on in his mind. He probably reprimanded changing forever taken that one time out on the inbounds and josh passengers should have said hey coach no big deal. We got three more timeouts but instead he was thinking. I really need to be a head coach somewhere. The clock is ticking thirty. We're going to get a job. I care about <hes> so yeah passers one of those guys but then actually on the court <hes> i would say the the go-to in this game as much as it really really hurts me to say is <hes> you know. I'm gonna say it mustafa shakur oh okay who is he should have never overcome in so brazen when he was a freshman and been on the golden boy. I'm the point guard he should have you know gone goes with channing frye and slim so it's it's a long game. There is a lot more emotional those built into a because had they been tight had they been boys. Guess who makes that pass salim saade okay so this is just along this card so officer is his in that case by case obscene eagle dolla for not coming back. Where's defensive stopper andrea gwendal when you know my <hes> this also pays me to say because he played out of his mind played really really well for arizona <hes> for most of this game as we already talked about mismatch nightmare but hassan adams at the end of at the end of overtime the very last possession he he gets isolation tate and he'd just nick johnson's it. He just doesn't have any idea how much time left on the clock he dribbles out the clock. He throws up like a desperation shot once he realizes and if you if you just watch that possession in isolation it's like what the fuck is that what what just happened right there. I mean like more context. It's it's more understandable because it is is given the the the the scene at the arena the comeback that only just went on the stakes all that kind of stuff i understand it's kinda hard it was this was two thousand five again who knows where the clock was in the arena if they even had like i don't know if the technology was back then so <hes> but just to watch them like like arizona has the ball they're down by one. They have all they can get the last shot here and they in hasaan adams's basically holds the ball and then decides okay now go and then they don't have enough time and he throws up desperation grishin shot. I think it has to be held for that. Reason mcclellan the freshman the throwing the ball ten seconds four eight seconds the threes. Gotta hurry this offer to defend hassan adams. This was his season high twenty. One points yeah and it's tough tough at a listen. He played well the entire game but like that's the whole point of the goat is like yeah. You just want one guy dependent on because honestly it's the entire team link. There was no one there really wasn't like the chris webber calling timeout situation or anything like that. There was like the one moment where like it was josh. That's what it was. There was really no one moment where you're like. What idiot who why would he do that <hes> but no that was that would be my answer though because you have to at least get his shot off. You have to at least lake yeah. Even if it's just like a contested like like you dribble to the elbow shoot a little bit of a fatal at the hand your face at least it's like a shot you've practiced before but like i don't think he's ever practiced to sit here. Let the clock tick down and throw up some bullshit. I will say the mental hurdle that comes into play when you do have your season high in basketball like you. You always know how many points you have. I don't believe anyone that says like i had no. Everyone knows how many appoints have so like. You get the twenty one point for the first time all season long. Let me just say you feel like you're in foreign territory and you also feel like a god so of your assan adams. He's thinking to himself <music>. I'm about to go ice. Oh and get this like bobby gametime. Everybody's been wrong is my team swinging dick and so he's like he's too confident because he's not really wearing needs to be weird weird. Yeah assan adams led the team in scoring year before he ever seventeen points a game his sophomore year two thousand four. He's like i'm back the next season he averaged twelve points a game which chizuko five and went sleep styled margot's nuts then salim stoudamire channing fry leave and he goes back to averaging seventeen a game. It's got a bizarre isn't it. I don't know so salim theory yeah. I dunno aren't the most people will say salim. Stoudamire is sleep on my radio. We will not do that on this program but i believe it was <hes> the entire game he sucked i was i was thinking like one moment. You look at your lake. You probably shouldn't a done that and that for me was like you have to get a shot off but the real answer probably louison just in general but i like. I like your theory. That little son was so. It's jockey woke up the next morning in chicago. Goes like how to go josh coach for flying back. We're not gonna saint louis all right so do the capitol hill who are who is the the the ah the player of the game for you the the capital go to the game for me. I think both people will probably say darren williams. I would say that is not a guy that i was really <unk> enamored with throughout the game. I think the go from me is roger. Powell roger powell is everywhere in this game. He's getting rebounds. He's getting tough tough baskets. They kept saying jay bilas kept saying arizona's strong with the ball zillow annoyed team and the reason they had to be strong with the ball is because of roger pow and luther head especially getting passing lanes and trying to tip balls out and i mean darren williams as well but he was more trailing salim around screens everywhere so roger powell was the one big an ones a lot of big. Three's mentioned the three early in the game him when he kinda got them out of that zone kept him on as he took one bad three late in the game but it didn't really matter in the end is luther head. Get hot so for me. Roger powell is the goats okay. I'm cool with that. <hes> mine mine was either chained fry or darren williams like the two best players in this game. Jamie rise very overlooked in this game. I think <hes> it comes down to like what you value more. Obviously darren williams <hes> won the game but i think over the totality of the game even even given what darren williams names did defensively against outta meyer channing frye over the entire course that if you if you closed you blocked off the score and said the score doesn't matter in this game. This is just pick up. Basketball people oversell having fun out here chain fry. I walk away from that game. Changing fry is by far the best player on the court. Yes so with that mind. I think i have to say channing frye but i also realize how stupid that is given. The big shots darren williams at down the stretch given that he guarded the best player on arizona in completely shut him down <hes>. It seems very very stupid to say that epa like it was that was the most enjoyable thing for me was debris watched that way rewatching it was to tow a c. channing frye because i knew going in the darren williams hits. The big shot the senate with over time i knew going into that. He shutdowns <unk> out meyer so i really wasn't like that impressed. I it's not a bad word. Obviously i'm impressed but i wasn't that it wasn't that fun. The watch the happenings. I knew i was going to see it was really fun for me to see channing frye be like god damn. I forgot how good channing frye was in college. He was so good <hes> someone. I'm gonna make that my answer i like liked channing frye media huge blocks in the game and he basically <hes> twenty four points twelve boards six blocked shots and on eleven fourteen shooting and it should be seven blocks be blocked the pass brown. I mean again if that's what if scenario happens it's all things channing frye <hes> all right so what what else do we have to to the tie this all together. Do you have any fun fact. I wrote down. I wrote down a few fun fact just a few odd like notes that i wasn't really sure when to bring them up and i just wanted to wrap it up with some buddies. Please <hes> number one <hes> we talked about that wake forest game then illinois beat the hell out of wake forest. Now it's kind of their announcement to even though they had won. The big victinity said we kind of knew illinois good come into the season but that was the moment when you beat the shit out of a._c._c. team who was number one in the country <hes> that you announced the world. We're not just big ten good. We are legitimately good. Dare i say historically good <hes> so that would force game happen. I didn't realize this wake forest. Wake forest played the game before they played illinois arizona. They beat arizona was that i could have guessed that was set up way. I said how can i say. Pepperdine kelsey is that relevant no loss not relevant with they played arizona in madison square garden. They beat arizona and then they said maybe. I should have been a telltale sign that a this is going to end up this way. They don't always gonna win. That wake forest was the common denominator that the beat arizona began to shoot destroyed by. We should also go to camp in the situation where wake forest as far as pace is probably what like top thirty in basketball that year and arizona's it's like route seventy five carolina's top top fifteen wake forest is gonna play the way arizona wants to play illinois did not wanna play the way arizona played yeah and then when they got sped up. We saw a little bit of a problem so it's just a various styles. I could also see arizona beating the breaks up wake forest the tournament because that far team was very as a way for us to yeah they were very. It's like it's like who is chris ball going to budge the balls to get this team. Go and play harder. I had this other other. No <hes> so in two thousand one. We talked about that deleted game. <hes> the illinois and arizona play no one arizona one luke walton comes off the bench inch that game <hes> for for that team arizona any hits. A big free throws down the stretch. What is blue. I was just gonna say lukewarm on the team. That's the whole point of the story. You know who's calling that game mino- one when illinois arizona replenish other a man by the name of bill walton found that fascinating i was watching a little bit of that and prepping for this the thing and i don't know bill bill walton call new walton's game n._c._a. Tournament games in leader. I imagine if twitter was alive. Back in illinois fans would not have been happy about that that <hes> the wall was calling his sons game in an elite eight game that every fucking crazy if you say how many times it bill wanda. He loves his son because i love him. I love him so when when when luke walton has the free throws bill phil says something like he said it is though luke walton wasn't his son luke <hes> he's like of course luke walton growing up up shot with the legendary u._c._l._a. Coach and he said it like <hes> he was just any other player but it was like i wanna dick enberg to be like site your source bill. How do you know that look. I was there dick <hes> anyway. I felt that i i mean if you really think about it like people lose their mind. Joe buck calls like a cardinals game and he's too close to the cardinals. His dad was a you know like it's too much bias. Get him out of here. Can you imagine an elite eight game bill walton calling ah sons gate like illinois federal lost their shit. They did back then that just wasn't twitter to could you imagine hiring someone's dad as a coach and then getting their son to complete for your school. No june ad that crazy easy. I i just wanna bring no. We're doing little notes. Forget to say this but my roger power. My goat is what jay bilas had to say again. Roger power called himself the reverend he he was the rev and when he got a rebound in an one put back jay bilas said the reverend bringing it down from the heavens yeah so this is jay the jay bilas. He's getting lines out there trying staffer yeah. This is good yeah j. before j yes. I wonder young bill. We get back mom. We get the reverend burnett from the heavens. I this is gonna get dick enberg doing the oh my as soon as luther gets nice little still in layup in overtime those thermo made notes <hes> we mentioned jacking room they said it on the broadcast room in the summer and his off is off season time <hes> operated roller coaster succe- flags that was his job yeah it was a joke because he looked like a carney actual carney he but he was ride did not games yeah. It's a high class wise adventure land for the first time paying attention so jackie bari's rights yeah. He's the guy that the guy that was microphone is like welcome back riders. How was your ride ride and then people like all right. Thank you gas right ex- you boy. I'm not all right. Welcome back riders of all right <hes> well. Let's let's let's wrap this up. What what else are we going to say. <hes> i kinda wanted to revisit for illinois fans. <hes> just how great this team was just just what what does team meant illinois basketball two thousand five illinois what it meant a big ten basketball is we said it was a team that you look back on it. I'll put it this way. You know how we talk a lot about on the podcast about how like duke and kentucky almost have shifted their focus away from winning national titles and instead like having these brands to the point that <hes>. I don't necessarily think this is their goal but it's a byproduct of their new approach of building a brand where <hes> people remember the the duke teams based on how how much they resonated with him throughout the season and not on how much they would right into the like this this past duke season was i in an r._j. Came reddish. I think people will look back on this like this. Team was unbelievable and they want a ton of shit and like it even if they don't even think they want to shit like people will look back fondly and this wall must be the year of duke. Even though virginia won the title because like zion was zion. Whatever so i say that to say that <hes> camila it. I'm i'm just going to say i almost don't. I almost think it doesn't even matter that they didn't win the title for the legacy of this team because they mattered. I heard so much to illinois basketball fans. They mattered so much to the big ten as a whole that they were like definitively one of the great all-time teams that as more time passes as you said they get labeled as like the best team to never win it. They like like there's nobody out there. That's like hasn't heard of two thousand five illinois so i don't think it it obviously matters to the players that matters to the fan base but as far as like the legacy of the team. I don't think it actually matters that they didn't win. The title is that heartache not at all because i was gonna say something in a similar vein in the sense that bruce weber one sixty one games in two years and took this team to the first final four since nineteen eighty nine and i know that he gets a lot of you know like you just said he's he's kind of a punching punching bag sometimes in the world of college basketball even though they elite eight run with kansas state i think can alleviate a little bit of that because people are like oh bruce weber good. If you watched his game he he al coach lute olson yeah. He did one hundred percent. There's no offense or buts about it. We're not just sexy one no he he he did a great job with what like like we mentioned the top of the game they ranna zone. We have an answer. You're going to use chaining fried of the post to pass. We're gonna dumb like i mean there was a game plan. They had a great game plan and bruce weber delivered on a lot of things thanks so i would say that for me and i also say this illinois fans all the ones that are in that building going crazy comeback. Go back well. Here's the feedback the president. I mean bill murray. Get back out there. I mean the time when i was threatened by illinois spokes out thinking to myself. Jeffrey jordan was not going to north carolina. He was going to wear l. annoy bill murray. I thought he was cool with us. He was in space jam. He knew about michael's carolina shorts. Guess where he was. Illinois chicago was taken over. Everyone was jacked jacked up about illinois. Since i was very very very scared intimidates northbound basketball fan you know to three national championships later not so much but at the time yeah it makes sense that they they do this in chicago now the chicago recruits won't come on you mentioned earlier you like no one's ever heard of the o five illinois team as here's probably all all this five. Here's my here's my here's my other what if what if they play this in the united center instead what if the reason illinois strikes out on chicago recruits is because they're actually getting all the rosemont recruits roots as allstate arena is suburbs by all those kids. I grew. I grew up watching that illinois team. They're like we wanna play real annoy but the game didn't actually take place in in chicago and that's why they lose if this would've happened the united center anthony davis a derrick rose and if you wanna watch those rosemont kids please pull up the academy tapes from the incidentally academy adamy last week with the condoleeza ran because they'll all be that you talked about. You talked about <hes> comeback. Please illinois fans what has happened. Illinois basketball comeback check illinois's not been to sixteen thousand five eight. That was the last time that made the sweet sixteen they got forza. D brown james augustine stay the next season season. <hes> luther head darren williams leave and roger palyed <hes> they get four cedeno six. They've not had a top four seed since oh six so that was the last time independent atop for suit their only top five see that they've had since two thousand five was in nine and they lost the first round. They were five. They lost a western kentucky in the first round. It has been in a weird way that kind of helps. The legacy of the five fifteen is at. It's like this flash into pay. It's like the what people think is going to happen with the raptors as like they had this great moment like what remember forever then like more times go by the raptors might become relevant but it's like damn it. We still have that one year and we had that one on team that a except for that speaks to know that speaks to the <hes> what i said at the start of how this felt like the culmination of illinois basketball of a lou henson to lawn kruger to bill self to now bruce weber is going to take us to the promised land and we're going to get over the hump finally two thousand five and it all it had had to happen then and it didn't happen. I think most illinois angela if we couldn't do it in oh five we're never gonna fuck it and that really sucks but <hes> yeah that's it and then the wheels came off for bruce bruce. Two thousand eleven i think was was the year that <hes> it was kind of obvious. Bruce was definitely gone and they had like they had dmitri. Mckay me <hes> mike tis dale dale. Mike davis myers was a freshman but he kind of sucked in but they had a really really good team like mc. Amy was a really good basketball player. <hes> the internet similar dan williams a little bit they enter the season in the top fifteen and the wheels fall off the good nine seed in the tournament. They've finished two thousand fourteen on the season. They lose to illinois chicago in december in the united added center. I think like after two thousand eleven all right this is it for brucie's stuck around one more year and that was it an now he's at kansas state but <hes> yeah that's the as the where they now the what happened after but though five illinois team will always live on they will always live on. I think that's like the largest stories that this game is one of those games. I will always be watchable. Oh is one of those games where you can talk win randomly about a game in college basketball. They may have seen it. They may have heard about it and i think that does offer lenore the brand of basketball and i don't. I think that they're gone you know. I don't think this'll be the last hurrah for illinois basketball. There's too much talent there too much history and it was great to see bruce weber at the time i am shine and i think that i don't know bring back. Those guys like darren. Williams should be around the program or you know they should. They should really embrace that. It does not seem like that is the case <hes> viewpoint yeah. I gotta figure that part out <hes> i think and i don't know what side it is. I don't know if it's the university. I don't know if it's the players. I don't know if it's because your coaches and they are what we all know. How wow that is but whoever is there in charge enough time has passed reach out to that team celebrate that team be apart like ciller. We don't mean like have them back for one game. We mean like like by them. Houses and champagne and that's the maybe that's the problem is like champagne no disrespect but like that is by far the worst big tent town that you've ever ever played a i like. I like it all my fans. I liked it. I liked arena <hes> great arena. It's basically like diet. Macarena is like exactly like mackie's accused. Bathrooms aren't as nice <hes> i really like. I really liked the idea of illinois basketball. I like the orange. The orange crush used to talk a lotta shit to me when i would sit on the bench and i i liked that field where like the student section is right next to the parents the the visiting parents section and right next to the walk ons at the end of the bench so they can get real personal with you <hes> they you got a good thing there and then they have the students like on the floor kind of wrapped around. It's a pretty crazy environment <hes> as you said all the pieces are there for illinois to get it back. <hes> it just champagne. Champagne sucks dude. That's that is not a town and i. I don't think i'm breaking news here and maybe that's part of. It is like darren williams like i had a good four years or three years. I think it was three years <hes> mm-hmm but i'm not in any hurry to get back there. You know what the need drake. A champagne papi now spelled differently because he's in champaign illinois and he bill murray yeah bill murray bill barry beck. Come on brick. Please all right. That's it anything else before you know. I just wanted to say that salim sodomise so an not so great in the college basketball ranks don't ever forget it. Go look up <hes> that that is the homework. The extra credit homework is go. Go watch salim stoudamire not in this game name. Go watch his other go. Watch literally any other game you played in and and you will love him as much as eight and i did and it's really sucks that this if you get tired of him go watch big star america arcade damon stoudamire <unk> arizona when he took them to their second final four ninety four. I mean the whole family has been grudge. Stoudamire watch any started meyers memorial star. We're watching them all. Do something just do that all right. That's this well. I think we'll do this again. Yeah it'd be good yeah. I enjoyed. Every second of this. Kyle was asleep but i mean that's okay okay. I was awake the whole time okay. He was asleep during the game. I did some research. You're right <hes> getting some head. Buy low came out in two thousand six so ooh yeah. That was definitely illinois. Situation lutheran is gonna start taking credit for all the little winston if you enjoy this. This podcast and i certainly hope you did a we're going to as i said at the top. We're going to do more of these. <hes> the next one we were going to do undetermined date but a very very soon and we're going to do the two thousand two indiana versus duke sweet sixteen game. Which is my pick. It's going to be my pick so i'm going to be very excited that one but <hes> yeah and it will do. We'll do a few more. We'll let the people vote on on whatever that's it so we might have more off what the ferguson more structure with the next one but went pretty well. I had a good time had a great time. It was funded to to revisit this game all time great game <hes> that's it. We will see you next week. Thank you. They do <music>.

illinois illinois basketball arizona salim bruce weber channing frye darren williams arizona lute olson ohio chicago Salim stoudamire north carolina John adams pac meyer oklahoma damon stoudamire david
Guest: NBA Draft Analyst Matt Babcock Discusses LaMelo Early NBA Impressions, Luka Garza, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs Evals

All Ball with Doug Gottlieb

57:00 min | Last month

Guest: NBA Draft Analyst Matt Babcock Discusses LaMelo Early NBA Impressions, Luka Garza, Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs Evals

"To show you how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera star. Gracious me mike. Or has storm damage. And i had to file a claim go to possibly get worse when my claims team. Leave me for someone else. Someone less intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team. Who promises to stay with you throughout the process. I've never known such loyalty. I can't wait for the second season. Geigo great service without all the drama. Doug ben this is the all ball podcast where You have a bunch of different paths that we go down during the hoops season Most times we talk but sometimes we talk other sports matter of fact i have a couple of friends who want to join me a lie. T jewish out of. Did you miss that one. He's got an amazing life story. It's not ball does not also also always mean basketball. It just means kind of sport and though we usually focus on basketball people's basketball stories or basketball analysis. I liked him guy like the. I like to get everybody's sports story. If you will Today's guest is matt babcock. Now matt was a walk on arizona's their eight team in was that. Oh five island. They lost that game deal illinois after beating. Oklahoma state crazy Let's now allstate arena. That's the old the rosemont horizon. Which i'm going to share with you a quick story on that in a second and then we'll have matt come on One of things. I like best about. It is the ability to tell stories. So here's a here's a good hoop story for you right. I'm working at espn and the guy who hired me now. We're nbc sports. Same day. here. Dan is a fabulous guy and unbelievable tv production. Kind of mind was like famously was vitalis producer win. Vital was absolutely at his peak. And know you don't know where vitalis going to be a producer when that's happening is is hard so he was the coordinating producer at espn and so my broadcasting friends which are listening to this. You're you're not. you're not in because you know how. Dan works so the way which. Dan would operate when i was there. Which bro- broke amy honest. Keep me honest come in asked for games. Don't be afraid. But i i may say no. I don't have one for you but but just knock on my door. Don't don't be afraid to stop by bro. So that's what i would do. That's kind of how. I cut my teeth in college. Basketball is like you know berry as a guy ran. Espn news you know. We can put you on here. We can put you there and dan. Steer was the c. P. for college basketball so dan calls me One day when i'm driving home they brought in your favor needed favor Cincinnati depaul and. It was like a early february game. I was like the paul's terrible terrible. No pro but i'm i'm everyone's contract is different. And so i think. I mind at the time was like an all in like you. Basically throw having ever many games. There's no overage there's no extra fees whatever so somebody says. do you do the game. But you know inside. I was like oh man. That's shitty game so And at the time. I was doing the afternoon or nighttime radio. So that means i would have had to take a day off of radio so it doesn't. It didn't help me pay wise and in fact it actually hurts me because i my radio contract at the time was based on the number of days. I fulfilled not anything else. And so every day. I did basketball. That was a day. I couldn't do radio which meant it was a day i get. It had to be something good. But whatever like i love calling basketball games. So he's like don't make a deal with you. You can fly in to do the game day of which generally not allowed at most networks to fly in day of especially a place like chicago or flying out of hartford where weather can be a factor so dave revson. I were excuse me boob shabby and i were calling. The game and boob is is out of new york. And i'm out of the hartford area and so we both fly in that morning and they're shoot around at like the ones that eleven and one's at twelve so i take i mean couldn't be any better because you get an hour back like i get all my kids situated they go to my girls. Go to preschool. Whatever and i had to the airport like a nine o'clock flight or nine fifteen flight and you land at like nine fifteen bids amazing so we fly in and you land at it. Is you know nine fifteen and if you've ever been to the allstate arena which zeal rosemont horizon it. It's literally right off the runway right so i. I didn't read a car because a car. And here's the here's the thing. It's a six o'clock local start. The last flight to hartford was swear to god. Eight twenty nine pm gay six. We know college basketball. The window is two hours now. Only wisconsin michigan state. Big ten games gold less than two hours but as i was calculating my brain sitting there going like the pulse terrible. They're so bad that they're not even going to be fouling late in the game and i'll end up walking out of the arena at seven fifty five. It is five minutes door to door. I can check in for flight. I'm not checking bags. I'm not even. I got a backpack with a laptop. That's it you know like it's like the old It's sealed michael jordan. We went to phoenix to play game. Six of the nba finals. Like you only pack one suit. I literally wore my suit. So i dropped my kids off. I've taken flight. I go over there. And i'm and i'm hanging with boob watching paul workout and one of the managers comes over and says Do you guys need to. What actually was the producer. They had a runner and espn game. Don't usually have runners. Cbs games do have runners. Espn pretty stripped down crude. Somehow we had a rudder and we're like hey man. Can we get a ride to the airport and a guy waiting. There's no we have no postgame interview like this is just a game on and off. We literally both landed go over to the airport. And now we did get think one hotel room at some like dive hotel right next to the arena. So while we're watching shoot around the like the. The runner who drove us around all day is like actually. There's a team manager. They have a team van and he's going to take you to the airport cool. We meet him great. No problem and i'm gonna meet you at that door. I was like listen How many people they expect is like i don't know man like maybe four or five thousand but you know if we're down big late. The law cleared out. Traffic won't be a problem is like well. Can we be on the side of the arena. What's the which is the airport side so we can have the easiest exit no problem. These are the things by the way that that broadcasters actually really think about so this guy's driving around and he's kind of driving us crazy. Runner drives us to lunch. He he doesn't he smokes but not in the car were driving but he clearly smoked a ton. I think he lived in. Wisconsin is like a college student. Where like this is disgusting. I just remember boo. Go and thank god. He's not taking us to the airport. So we get to do the game and paul's down like i dunno eighteen at the half and the thing rolling and no fouls and it's usually. It's three minutes for every minute on on the game clock right. That's usually i can think of it. But the first half only usually takes out forty to forty five minutes. And i mean it felt like the first half might have taken thirty minutes. Some sitting there elbowing boop and boobs. Flight is last light to new. York is like nine thirty. So he's fine no matter what so The second half starts and all of a sudden the paul start hitting three after three after three after three right and cincinnati's mick cronin's colin timeouts. I'm sitting there dying. And he's elbow me because he knows if i missed that flight either. Got to fly with him to new york and then find a way to cab up to canton connecticut. Or i gotta stay the night and now it's like staying. Dive hotel changed my flight. You know just the you want to sleep in your own bit so the game ends and the ball is in the air and the game balls in the air and depalma's down three. They miss a three at the buzzer. That could've tied senate to overtime. Of course i would have missed. The flight misses it. And you get the producer. No postgame hit. You guys are clear. It's like seven fifty eight so we start booking it to the door were supposed to with a van is supposed to be and there's no van there and there's no manager there turns out he moved to the other side of the reno. Which and the traffic was a little bit of traffic because people did stay because it wasn't back inciting basketball game get in the car. And i'm like in my mind. Doug customers manager distant. I just ask you to parking one spot to get you there matter of fact i'm looking at the game right now. And my recollection is pretty good. It's february eighth. Two thousand eleven cincinnati depaul classic classic since st paul and it was seventy one sixty eight. Paul was shitty. They were five and seventeen before the game. Assuming six sixteen before the game and cincinnati was eighteen and fifteen for the game says up big in the first half behind ibrahima. Thomas started his career. Oklahoma state right sean. Kilpatrick who became a pro. What a stud player. He was Yancey gates and larry davis rishaad bishop. I was that was a good sense. Good like good rugged. Cincinnati team and Cleveland melvin i. Think is an la kid. He ended up having a big night. He was released core for paul and they they made it close anyway So we get done and we race. You know. Finally get to find the manager. It's like eight. Oh five and book our way over to book our way over to o'hare into o'hare like eight. Oh nine get out star. Running nobody at the security gate made it to the You know ryan through like oj through the airport. Get all the way to the gate and And it's like eight fourteen or something or maybe a nineteen. And i see the door close ryan remember. It's like an eight twenty nine. And if you know. Americans are doing this thing. Probably about two thousand ten relate like their fifteen minutes before we close the door. And you're just. I saw the door closed. Mike all man. I missed it. But there's all these people like sitting in their tonight so anyway. The flight was like five minutes before boarding. I end up. Getting to fly. So i do have some. That's my greatest rosemont horizon allstate arena memory. Far better than than matt who's gonna join us Who of course was sitting on the bench for arizona when they had a huge lead against illinois in the elite. Eight for the ally and bruce weber ended up making that furious comeback. Winning the game in the elite. Eight crazy home crowd. Then they go and in saint louis get all the way the national championship game. They played small ball before small ball was school but too much north carolina and beaten him for national championship That's there's the there's the allstate arena rosemont horizon. All time worst arena. Only good part of that location is proximity to airport. That's really only it. They have like blue windows and like a blue roof on it. It's a amidst fine as arena. but it. I don't know what purpose it serves now. I i really really. I have no who. How did that thing get cleared. How did that thing get to where you're like. Yeah yeah let's let's build arena. They're right in the middle of office buildings apartment buildings and and yeah some high rises in some hotels. That doesn't make any sense at all. That's a weird one to me. Let's get to it Mad bad guts from a basketball family. He's got an interesting story right from being a junior college player to a college walk on to an assistant coach to To an agent and now as a as a basketball analyst for higher. Here's my conversation with him about a myriad of topics including what do we take of lamelo ball earlier in the season when you're ready to place a bet on today's games do with the most trusted name in online sports. Betting bet rivers sportsbook now legal in several states and growing bedroom sportsbook delivers a unique sports betting experience featuring live streaming sports in game wagering fast authorizations on most withdrawals and gold standard customer service could bet rivers dot com. See for yourself must be twenty one and be present in colorado illinois indiana and pennsylvania to play gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gambler. Geico knows there. Many reasons why you ride from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind that geico has your back with twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer service but pamela mind had one reason in particular. My skin is diverse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling of leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers in the biking community. It's been life changing geigo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more ice thought. Let's let's let let's start the beginning for you your earliest memories a basketball or what boy probably say i was abou- four or five years old. My head coach at a junior college in phoenix phoenix college and run around the gym around practices Is the first and foremost. It was a college coach. His son Did you have like. I wear for four forty four There's other reasons like pistol pete. Where forty four. A little bit Hey gathers Were forty four jerry. West were forty four my my mom's all syracuse people obviously forty four but one of the real reason for forty. Four's my dad. Had a guy named kirk taghi. Who was ike his favorite player. Actually sunday's second favorite player to coach at uw milwaukee His favorite player To to coach was actually dave webber. Bruce weber's brother but i love her casually. I thought he was just the coolest right. So that's why we're forty four. Did you have of the guys your dad coach. Was there somebody who you are and maybe nobody knows. This guy's name. Like that was my guy when i was a kid. Yeah you know. I mean the name that comes to mind. You know a couple of guys. Actually that my dad was different junior college. Arizona western Burger smith the playground. Legend from from brooklyn covers sports illustrated sold the whole the whole deal and Booger tommy all his tricks. While hailing tricks of whatnot and My i thought. I thought that guy does locked on water. I never wore his numbers. I believe he wore number fourteen for my dad which was the time he ever played. Organized basketball The other guy was Denmark read who's damon stoudamire. He's mr oregon back in the same school. There is on a western. They play at him. and bugger. played together. I going to be in a standup player in mexico saying he was he was probably the best shooter. I never seen until i met his cousin. Salim stoudamire aware. Teenaged zone though. Those guys are very influential. Meh young age salim interesting one but by the way i mean the names are great. Bobrovsky nicknamed the but denmark is a great name like easier. It's something about some. Do they just have either. They go by nickname. It's a great nickname or they have just a name that just a you know like like it's it's really it's it's kind of fascinating when when you look back that way What what was it like okay. So so the best team at arizona. You're part of the roster was stock act was was. What was your favorite group. I mean i was only there for for two years my first year. I transferred from junior calls in florida and walked on arizona's team and a four or five. I thought we the best team in the country Lineup was established occurs. Leaves stoudamire assan. Atoms channing. Frye in we lost. We lost in the elite eight to darren williams illinois. we're up by sixteen minutes. loved comeback. thought. We should won that game. And i thought we would have be north carolina you know ultimately if the final four and all that saw speed but it was it was great to be part of that team but you beat oklahoma state to get. There is a huge shot at the end that that was that was a great game and that was one of the best game i've seen yet. It's that group is interesting Mustapa was the most highly touted point. Guard country coming out of philadelphia. And it's this is kind of interesting transition for me In what you do now. you know. Look you've been agent been around ball your whole life and now you evaluate guys. Why didn't he make what. Why wasn't i'm always like i. I have my own that we can discuss. It can thoughts on it but like He was Was the guy's name shabazz shabazz muhammad was like the next version of that where who show good at the a you high school level and not like like. He wasn't a bad college good college player but to go from the number one point guard in the country to being out a basket you know not being an nba player really Is is interesting to me. And he goes through luke's program which is like point guard. You like that new one. Because the guys who. He's surrounded people with too. Because you let you play three because of how they coached you like you know all these other guys made it. But you just mentioned three guys assan and selene and established art with mustafa. Why do you think he wasn't. He didn't evolve into what some thought he could be. You know i mean he. He was so hyped about high school. I think if. I remember creches rate higher than chris paul and his one point around the country and goes across the country from philly To the like you said point argue with lute olsen expectations. I think were even higher from from that standpoint and Mustafa is such a worker. And i think the combination of the amount of pressure put on himself and the pressure that came with being the number one point guard in the country sort of looked at as the next savior verizon. The next big point guard. And there's a lot of pressure. And i think i think it got a little bit Yeah i think he really had a hard time sort of loosening up as a player you think a lot of his is i mean that illinois game specifically yet a lot of turnovers and i think a lot of it was. He's in his head a lot. There's a lot of pressure internally. Allow pressure from the outside on him. in any kind of put my agent hat on for a second. The suez looking at me did have a successful career internationally. Couple coffee in the nba didn't live up to his initial expectations but play them played professionally for a long time and especially i think. Sometimes it's unfair to put such high expectations on these sixteen. Seventeen year olds is. We don't know what they're going to be. You know yeah. I think it's a. It's a great point. You mates like i had this conversation. Eleven old son. And i've i've kinda turned him in. You know because you know. He's asked why didn't she viewer. People walk around the they always say nicer things about than how you really a player. People say scrape player. He's like well. How can you play in the nba. Well could make a shot. And i didn't think i can make a shot and so it really you know it. It harmed microbe. But like i played in russia we rush russian championship. I played in. Israel played in france. I played all these minor leagues. And it's like i tell kids and their parents all the time like outside of play in the nba. Anything you could ever dream of doing basketball of done and so there is this week. We pollute people's minds which are only successful if somehow you're a starter you're an mba all stars like. Hey dude there's five hundred thousand high school basketball players just to play in college. You're the best one percent in cal in in america and then to play professionally about the nba. You're like the one percent of that. It's really really really hard And then to play in the m four hundred fifty jobs in l. a little bit more this year obviously because the roster but the point is like stuck in hard you know and it doesn't make you a failure if you don't become crispell but it is interesting you know like the conversation last night and And he was. We got shots up and we have the doctor dish machine. Kayla's get let's get. Let's get two hundred more up his Tom just tires my day off. And i just said listen. Just tell you when you're in your forties you can look back bill like man. Was it really worth. Was i video game really worth it. You know i do. I wonder how much it's 'cause. I beat myself up over a mental constraints and work ethic like i knew i worked hard but you don't realize how hard everybody is working when you think you've made it and and the journey is only become begun Okay so how did you get into the field of being in nature. How did that. How that transition from arizona to be an agent take place. Yeah i never never planned on being an agent. I grew up my whole life. My dad's locals work in the nba. Call coke before again. Then be a and Myself and my two cousins. We always plan being coaches or fallen. Our dad's footsteps. I think ultimately goal was obviously we all wanted to play in them a a pass that we all want to be. General managers an mba from arizona. My first job was a joke from tucson. la. I work for wasserman media. Group was sports agency and the biggest sports agency in the world at the time of my job was to assist dave eggar. Who's a d. league coach of the time that the train all their predrag guys now had seven. First round picks that year we had a and the marcus. Aldridge baystate an austin train. But we had rain. Roy sheldon williams. Aj Jordan farmer joel. Freelance this group. And it was dave eggar and i worked with the guys every day and it was just a summer. Internship was sort of my My first look at the agency business. I never really thought about too much. I met some of them. You know. Just kinda hang around the nba with my dad's and all that but never gave it to much live from there. I still wanted to be a coach. I took a job as an assistant coach. A twenty year old With virtus bologna atop semen italy Did that for that for half a season. Got a little homesick And i i got a job opportunity. the work for excel sports management to be a junior agent. And i and i jumped at the opportunity to move back to la. And i just had You know one opportunity after after another in next thing. I knew i'd been doing it for ten years and had my own agency and You know after you know five or six years you know the the real negatives in that business started to become the light in it became sort of a common theme of conversations with my wife my family of like i. I don't know if i want to do this the rest of my life. I don't know if this is the place in the world. I want to be in. And i really missing you know being quote unquote a true basketball person in sight. Kinda throw some feelers in the nba. Had some interesting conversations about Join front offices and different sky positions and nothing came together. After a couple of years of doing i asked my wife said. Do you mind if i make a drastic move and cash out of the business. Much as i can in kind of better myself. The recreate myself in basketball. And that's what i did. And so. I started walter scouting Eventually start writing for sports illustrated in onto launch babcock. But it was obvious. It's been a rollercoaster pretty much from arizona until today it's been kinda craxi ryan for me. Okay let's let's go to that first summer day. Finding dave said dade coach dakota wizards not just in the cba coaching usb l. And a like. It's it's really interesting on how. I'm i'm very similar. You obviously. Is you know you know. My dad was a college assistant college coach. But then you know started to enter the in a new program and what he did. I found fascinating. Is you news like basketball as you know and people listen to this pod. No it's a it's a family right so and you know if you don't know somebody. Your coaching tree knows somebody who knows somebody at but he he'd been around it so long. He literally knew everybody and he was like all lobby team and the floor and he would place kids in college and somewhere along the lines. Somebody's like a you know you should probably charge for the service like you always thought like all right well on play. I want to try and make the nba or play in a different country every year. And then i want to coach. Or maybe we broadcast from broadcasting. Just kind of happened. You know but i do I'm i totally understand. The idea of like i love basketball. I i hosted national radio show. But i love basketball more thing. I love being and just an. It's it's hard like sometimes the more successful you are in a business. It pushes you away from the part of the sport that you actually liked. That's why i love coaching kids or coaching teams on overseas trips. Whatever okay so let's go to that first summer. Okay so you mentioned all these guys and it's interesting obviously brandon roy injuries aside became a tremendous. Nba player. is crazy. Jj radic is still playing right like crazy because early on in his career people go like wow he was really overdrafted right going that high and yet you look at the longevity and how games evolve some And he looking sheldon williams and he was out of league rather quickly at some of that is the evolution of the league. Some of that is his lack of evolution as a player. If you can remember back to that summer and then you got jordan farmer who. I loved his player Played in the league last league but didn't really stick as he was a mcdonald's all american starting point guard at ucla. Good point guard if you remember back to those workouts did you. Could you and your twenty three years old. Did you think at the time those guys careers would play out as they did You know brandon roy for sir i mean it was so apparent in those workouts. This guy special Legitimate size in any. He had so much more bursts than you realize watching on tv or whatnot. I'm ed to do sort of like a bunch of dummy defense on him and he would just shake me out of. My shoes left the brian. Who so strong and good with the ball. I mean obviously you know his his knees in ups biden. Hold off and that's why his crew shorter. What a great player. Jj i may just you know shooting translates. He's a really smart player. He was then is now in a worker. I think one thing that was interesting with jj He he and i became really close during that time as if he told me. You didn't do anything in the weight room at duke. So i think when he got to the nba. He really applied himself guinness body together. And i think that's one big part of what's helped him stay. Stay in the league for so long. I'm obviously shooting and understand. The game in sort of being a suit of the game is most important. But he's also take everybody's got some stronger. I think that that point is pretty physically weak. I know what you said about sheldon absolutely translate as well as sorely throwback big ago. Six eight six nine nineteen thousand nine hundred seventy nine one thousand nine hundred. Seventy s showing is still playing in the nba. Collecting the collecting. a check. Starting fights off the bench barbie. Now but you you gotta be gabrielle move. He wasn't going to be a low post score. You got to be able to be a bucket every time and then where do you stick a guy defensively and i and i think that's it's a it's an interesting part about you. Know your evaluations now. Which is whether it's high school valuator fans kids themselves like we. Just we look at box scores. Or what a guy does with the ball but in the nba. Like okay. can't guard anybody. And then the next part kindergarten everybody. There's the two things because you have to your your switch at some point in the nba. Kindergart- anybody then can you guard n and then offensively. Now can you shoot and then obviously can you do all the other things that are that are involved in sheldon you know couldn't shoot and didn't really guard his guy let alone couldn't guard anybody else. I'm not trying to be hypercritical. Lots of guys like he didn't translate as well. Thank you absolutely right so Okay so real. Quick on the agent business and this has been my this. I've always loved this park. Which is when you you get in. You gotta get kids and sometimes you know early to over promise and then you end up under delivering like the second round is always kids. Get from the second round and the aging gets fired right. Look you know. I i told you you know anywhere between twenty and forty you get drafted you know forty five and i get i get fired and the second agent comes in swoops in and and you know where you were drafted appropriately. And he is. That is that what chase. Yeah the business will what will be there. There was a number of things you we're recruiting. I mean the whole landscape of the business. I mean obviously live. It's come to light in the last few years that the i investigation the scheme and all that stuff and you know i mean growing up in a battle family in ninety just the basketball fan but like you know family that takes pride in being ethical. I felt like a lot of pressure of doing things. The right way and i learned pretty quickly. I was at a major disadvantage by doing things by the book in that war on me over time i mean i. I worked for a lot of big companies early on in my career in graduate. Wentz more boutique situations by design. Just because i felt fit my style flight you can have better opportunity of not getting your hands dirty and having some success but after ten years i felt i was at a point where i understood the business really well. I felt like i was very effective as an agent as far as i representing players In recruiting though. I just my client list wasn't growing at the same rate that that i felt like i was improving as an agent. And that's just that's that's a hard pill to swallow when you're not getting as much success as you think you should be getting in. I just miss being directly involved in basil. Even though i was talking with my players and recruiting basketball players you know it's different than evaluating players and talking about it and or coaching guys and so companies of all those things but all the negative aspects that we're all aware of now but the agency business. Those are probably the main things that drove me out. Good afternoon fluid. You like to try a free sample of double fudge brownie. Oh sure that's very good. I'll just take one more just to be sure. Yep still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance it macadamia nut i taste. Take one more sir. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more shakespeare no. It's geico shakespeare from one of his published works to be not for awakening give the berries for fifteen minutes. Could save you fifteen percent or more. No it's from geico. 'cause they help save people money. Well i hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare geico fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more okay but there are success stories right. Who's the one guy who you had your greatest success stories and agents who Well i mean. I think it wouldn't be the big big names i mean i think the bigger the bigger presents the job is you know i mean everybody talks about these super agents that represent these top. Ten picks is the easiest job in the world. All you gotta do is answer your phone and say yes you know some of the guys that i when i first went on completely on my own i signed two players that went undrafted. That were big names. I assigned a blue from organ in clint chapman from texas. And i thought oh who had a chance point. Mba went undrafted. A both those guys You know really bad on me. I think it was twenty six years old. At the time. I'd start a basketball digital hockey agency. I was really finances behind made as far as traveling. All that put started started a sort of the basle division without any clients. I had left a group where we represented ten. Mba players. those guys bet on me as a young guy and there's still playing. I think or clinched just wrapped it up that great careers overseas and They really follow my plans stuck with me. The whole time houses was is an agent. That's those are my best fuel good stories just because you know we went through all together really had success concerned where they come from yet. It's interesting you know. The other part is now. And i know the overseas game is is changing and a lot of. It's lot better and now obviously i've has a cell phone but i mean i can't imagine like when you're twenty three or features below and you're right you have no cell phone. You're going over there. Cut coach speaking a different language. You know players are are your. You're younger than all the players. Except maybe they you know a couple of the juniors. Whatever i i told the story of i've i've told a bunch of different stories in this pod. My my favorite one still is when i flew to russia i landed in moscow and i had no cell phone. I just a guy had a sign that was written in russian and had a basketball on it now has gotten his car. I remember i remember this time. Were fading in and out of consciousness at lick it up and thinking you know if he decided to rob me. Lee need for dead net. Nobody's gonna know for months like leave at heard from him in a while. He went to play overseas somewhere. But it is it is. How did you manage. How hard was that to manage players overseas. You're young not crazy experience. They're calling you or email and you'll at hotmail back in the day. I mean you're just hot nail era. How'd you handle all of that. You know it was hard. I mean once i got to the point where i was represented players on my own My model was. I needed to sign a lot of players because i wanted sort of a low overhead guys that i can get relatively cheap in place them in good spots overseas and build them up. Which is kinda stack might ships rather than you how the big agencies were as far as signed big names in make a bunch of money on a less amount of players is. I was having to manage a lot. And when you have that many irons in the fire that there's gonna be some stuff that blows up in your face. You know. I i study. I went went to coach in italy as a twenty three year old. And i got homesick. Ao in and i had been. I've probably been a little more. Well travel at that point that. Allow these kids. That are over his rookies and You know guys were built for that that world of being far from home and dealing with the language barriers cultural differences and all that and so In a lot of times when when the kids unhappy agent gets lane. Weather's agents folder. Not so you know know. It's funny a lot of parents. Players now still lean on me to help them slyke agents or deal with agents and whatnot I it's a crazy business because it's just the manage the expectations. It's sometimes impossible because it's just such a such an unprecedent thing for these parents. These players understands you. Tell them all all the things they need to know everything. They need to know You know but sometimes it's just. It's a shocker. When they how hard was it for you to help a guy make decision where my look. I mean. 'cause my first club might was my second really but in house with herber doi and inner performances and they were huge and they put together a club team in two thousand. Because there's some changing rules. And i ended up not being played for them because i didn't get my israeli passport. So then my first club was actually Euro grayton perm russia. We won the russian championship and that was a great experience. But in hindsight. That should have been mike. My bird year right like my first year should have been germany. You know with a mid level team where i could have the ball and just go play and and maybe not make as much money not worry about the bonuses and the championships and it's it's to me again like i i i. I'm sure you're you're you're you're nodding your head because you'll get like you're trying to convince not just the player take a little less money because in the end in five years you can be playing in euro league as you need to learn the european game need to learn to live overseas need to learn to play with foreign players and playing against men. And you need to kind of you know. Put up numbers by frank right and those numbers aren't salary but we all come out thinking like i gotta make some money now like i i gotta make some money. How how how. What's that like to manage from the agent side now extremely hard. And you're absolutely right. I mean one thing. I always proves was in his first year. Deal where you don't you don't look at the money you need always look at the money in any kind of business deals but it really needs the priority needs to be used as a stepping stone at one just kind of gets you kind of get you warmed up the whole international basketball also like build up your market properly You know. I mean go into russia's a young guy that's that's a different animal. I mean we're talk about europe. There's europe and then there's rush the lifestyle is harder I would be hesitant to send a young guy. That's not ready ready for for the european. The the whole deal right off the bat. I mean watch will look at We will look at france. Germany and belgium if like the transition would be easier for some of the younger guys rather than go into eastern europe or places like that. Words of the cultural differences are pretty dramatic and say it's a you know felt like never-ending battling cheer when new rookies and by the time i got out my last year's agent the g. league it just got going with two way contracts affiliate player deals which was a whole nother struggle trying to convince guys not to chase the nba in start their career overseas and It's funny i actually had a pancake. Want lewis would be that year And he knows bore lining. Ba went undrafted. We had we had like deals for him the euro league and he turned down to take a an affiliate player deal in the g. league which i told not to But i understood he needed scratch that edge as far as chasing chasing dreams goes the g. league doesn't make much money for a year and then ends up in europe the second year for for deals. That weren't nearly as good as we got the rookie year. And so this is kind of an example of like it's all it's all kind of screwing it. It's really hard to tell these players and parents. You know the right decision. Because they're going through for the first time in even if they trust you. It's hard to. It's hard to listen to an agent about a big life decisions like that. Just kind of blindly. Yeah now miss. It's a great point at jay. Quan gone to the league and then come back. He would have been better. Because you would shot the ball so well and understood the spacing and the nuances avid and started off. As you know we. So i i wrote that contract from scratch and who have taken. That job was The kid from gonzaga. Nigel was nigel. Nigel job and then the following year he played in the nba. The jazz you know and so it's kind of like you know sort of wide woman's deals were like i told you so i was just should take your now. It's it's it's okay. So babcock tubes You launch it and you do an unbelievable job. In terms of player avows What was your email on lamelo coming into the year. Yes i fall lamelo. Since he's been in high school just like everybody else has really you know he. He's sort of a mixed bag with him. I mean i love. The size is just natural playmaking ability. I mean the big concerns were in australia. Special like his shot selection is lack of effort on defense. I just sort of his his his whole stick of known as someone entitled those were the big holdups and You know so far charlotte. I mean he's been grades and premier. Stan talk some coaches in the league that he's playing harder the very comfortable. I hope it lasts. He's got a ton of talent. I mean he's got star potential in if he's able to kind of get away from some of those concerns in negatives. I mean it could be a big time player. We i think i talked to the warriors guys and i feel i feel bad. Because i here's my take on on the warriors. What would not enough people in my part. Business have are able to conceptualize. His look. staff is great but he's he's very good with ball in his hands but he probably better without the ball in his hands and what they built the perfect team they built was. They had all these. They had all these multi. It's not just bowl type position guys. Because that's like an easy one. They had so many point. What kevin durant some point four Draymond green point four point center really for them andrea dollars just to eat played the five for them but he can handle the ball and because he wasn't a great shooter became later and screw became very good. Passer shaun livingston was the number one point guard in the country. Right like you look. And even when they had andrew bogut andrew bugs a great passer at just a great screener but a great passer so it gave him the ability to if he didn't have the basketball. Just go and move. And we'll find you and so the new construction of that team. They had without except with draymond. None of those guys like. I'm not as down. On andrew weakens as the rest of the world is but andrew wiggins is a wing. He is not. There's no point in what he does. and the same goes for. I mean so they draft wiseman why has a lot of talent potential but i look back and think of how they like to play and i understood like the data. I think scared him. I think the persona scared him. Lack of playing hard and playing tough scared him. And i'm sure steve. Kerr was just like that. Not worth it. But considering may like do can kick in really see. It can really pass. And if he buys in size-wise multi-positional defender. I think they missed even if just becau- in not how good he could be but what it can do for staff and that's very early. I totally understand. He's played professional basketball. Watson played three games in college. There's a total curve. There get it but that's kind of like a month. In hindsight i love wiseman some sort saurav things were just. I think he could be a high profile guy to. I've been when it's all said and done i mean he's is so big and fluid and he's already produces for for big his age is pretty impressive With lamelo i mean. I think the jury is still out. I mean he's shown that that he's got star potential. May we all thought that his playmaking abilities passing ability that was already there From outside looking on in. I i don't think they're starting him on purpose. They're putting him on a leash to keep him in check. I mean what are things going to be like when he gets comfortable. Is he still going to defend and play hard because people then that that's where i think the concerned point you're still at least for me. It's still there are we're not. We're not you charles. Not totally safe here with this. Kitty gotta keep this in the right direction and keep him on point and hopefully they're able to do because i love to maximizes potential and looking for if we're being honest one league it ain't real. There's some teams that have played hadn't played since march for some teams had just got done playing like last week right. And so we have this disparity in it and what not enough of us admit when you coming off the bench. You're playing against bench players. I cannot play against stars. And and i think being in charlotte is a lot is is a good thing right. You're away from the bright lights in the big city. And and look i i. I'm interested to see how he handles like. You are the the the fame and the attention. Because because they only show the highlights on sportscenter right they. They don't show the defensive positions where he gives up or the missed finishes What about zion. What now we've we've seen him in a year and a half Obviously there's a drug jogging draw jaw dropping amount of potential there But i'm wondering where you are on zion on if he's going to achieve that because of the the game things holding back the shooting The you know His body and the injuries. If you give your honest evaluation which that's what bad kaku does on on on zion williamson at this point in time. What would it be. I've always loved. Zion a lull demento him as the clerk a number one starting early. In the season it never wavered. I think the biggest concern for me. It's not as much the outside shooting. Obviously he's able to kinda develop their. That's a good thing. But even if he does and i still think he's going to be an extremely effective player of the big concerns his body and in keeping his body healthy i mean he's obviously got the huge body type keeping that weight down. Stay stay in a fluid as an athlete and staying healthy state on the floor I think if he's able to do that. I mean i think he's going to be one of the better players in the league. Probably for a long time. I'm i think. I think college basketball is changing dramatically and Outside of this pod don't know how many people admitted it like because you're losing a couple of top kids a year now to the g. league select and that will continue now kentucky and duke are fighting over maybe a little bit second tier. I'm not trying to diminish those kids right. And then you win. You're gonna always lose a a cunningham because at oklahoma state you lose net now a sudden whereas you used to be able to compete with older teams if you had the top five kids in the country when you have fifteen to thirty five you got. It's very hard very hard to now. They're really young and they're they're not they're not anthony davis they're not arab-led so they're not john wall they're not demarcus cousins. It's it's it's it's different Is that a fair assumption. That is that a fair assessment. That the i think it's i think you know grassroots college. These alternate options. I think that's just gonna get become a bigger and bigger focal point as far as guys translate transitions to the nba. And all that and I think aloud these one and done type players are going to keep doing these alternate options. I think there's gonna be even more of them. It's what we're gonna look at college baffles. Probably going to be more of a hotbed to get good solid players that have been grown by j rights and the tony bennett's and os guys that are probably juniors and seniors that are coming in the know how to play that you can plug play as role players Because i do think these guys that are marketable. Seventeen year olds. They're probably go. Get some money. Legally luca garza. What is he in the nba. He's such a tough one. Because i mean such a study in college. I'm asia's he. He's been producing on such a high level. I just don't know if translates that. Well i mean we've got him at sixty right now in our big board. Which i'm sure a lot of college basketball fans would would go up in arms about each just his foot speed it. It's just a big problem. I mean in the way the nba player now. Everything is so spread out there. So many high pick and rolls i. I just don't know if he could keep up but at the same time if he's one of those guys don't to bet against i mean he's just he's such a tough kid and just he's just a winner. Roy challenging wanted to evaluate. I told his dad as like. Can you tell luka to stop wearing black shoes. it's actually smoke now. Stop wearing black sneakers. And he's like why. I go like look. Your son has a reputation of not having great feat. He's a great offensive player. When you wear black shoes it makes repeat look even slower. Resell him to stop wearing. But but yeah it's it's a hard one because he can an and it's like you can't shoot. He's made himself into very good burgoyne shooter. But it's what about the other. End the floor You know the scoring in the post isn't as valuable And and and you know. Can you be as efficient offensively against better players In a short period of time where you're not getting twenty shots right like that's the real challenge there. It's not just. Can you score against better players from further out. It's can you do it in you know now you gotta come off the bench with you started. You know gotten twenty five shots if you miss your spot you're getting five more works in the nba. Miss your i live go sit. We'll talk to you now and half. Maybe we might need you again. So it's it's a it's a harlem. What about kate cunningham. Early in his his career Who i what your email and then to d- have accomplished comfortable yet cade. I live in denver. Usa basketball thanks. You know real easily. Anti watched them all those different mini camps and stuff like that. And he's a stud. I mean he's he's is mature for his age as a player as composers great. I think you really makes good reads and decision making Any great size and versatility Sort of the cops for him kind of reminds the guy we talked about earlier. Sort reminds me of a mix between like a brandon. Roy like luka doncic you know he's he's a big on ball guy. I think he. Can you know sort of categorize right. Now is a point guard. I think you can use them in so many different ways. Especially if he's able to continue develop outside shooting in its We've got him as the number one guy right now. Just i think he's You know. I don't know if he's gonna ultimately be the best player in the draft but i do think he's a safe pickling. This guy is going to be at least a pretty good good player. Who's the who's the one player who has somebody looks at your board their most surprised by but you feel you know in that top five. Ten fifteen bray. Well you know we just did our first big board last week and we did it. Strategically this lake. We need need some time to catch up. I mean you know you know a big part of the pandemic affected your scouting in the biggest thing that it's affected. We missed all of april of all set to go to mcdonald's all american game Hoops summit irish classic. It's all the one and done before. They step on campus and so we missed all that. Luckily i do a lot of high school stuff. So i've seen all these kids about probably a little bit of catch-up The the one guy that i've gone a gun the most heat on that have like eighteen or nineteen is Is drew tammy from gonzaga and one of the big arguments is even. Though i'm mid thirties. I come from a background similar to you were. I've i've been trained as a scout by guys that work in the seventies right. So i'm a little bit more old school traditional and i am not as quick to say a big guys are dying. Breed intimidate me. that guy just. He's got such a knack to put it in the whole i. I don't care if he needs to be you know A low post scorer if he's getting his action flow the game. I think the guy is going to be a bucket the next next level. That's one guy that i think if people are looking at and saying. Hey this is a slow white guy like houses guy fit. I think he's good enough to translate to the nba. Think he's also easy teammate. Because he he's not he's not not a pig and playing with with with. Jalen cy is jalen suggs. Is he jason kidd. Who who is who is he to you. Guys that come to mind for me with him is Jason kidd darren williams. He's other guy watched lot usa basketball events. And i didn't see the point guard play at those events as much as i wasn't quite as high on him but man right at the gate this year he He really negated those issues. I bet that kid is about a true point. Guard is against. And i think he's gonna give k to run for the money and possibly the top point guard the draft. I agree if somebody wants to to to become to to get all your stuff. How do they do it. Babcock hoops dot com. That's our that's our main spots up you know we're doing a ton of draft covers a lot lot of writing and we're actually starting to Scout some games. I'm i'm going to oregon colorado today high school tournament this weekend Arizona state usc. Saturday boise state wyoming. Monday guys all of the countries were were going after a man. I appreciate your time. I think you do a great job and your perspective. Having been a player having been in a in a basketball family having been an agent. I think it's unique. And then the the ability to bet on yourself and then win is awesome. Awesome anytime you wanna come on You are welcome here. And i really appreciate your time persian kind words and there's this won't catch up. Let's give you touch. Fisher thanks man. Thanks matt that was great stuff really released you his website. You want to check out his analysis and we had a good A good time conversation if you will. It is hard to watch the nba and make definitive statements about each one of these players in each one of these teams. Even college basketball right like you see. I'm i'm i'm watching wisconsin tonight and they beat louisville but like fifty but louisville didn't have half their team play their young kids and now that's louisville's only lost in the years. It's hard to tell like some of these teams. Do i think the big ten is outstanding. absolutely. I'm not an idiot but i also think some of the other conferences didn't have has been returners and so early in the year with less practice less. Preseason games less of these tournaments. You're going to see teams with more returns. Older players play better. And i do think that water does find his level. Once we get to february march. But it'll be interesting to see how much some of those limited preseason games get held against it and once again you heard my philosophy with matt agrees with or maybe a my hypotheses for why i don't think duke or kentucky is at the level that they've been and maybe won't be at the level that they've been if they continue to recruit those one and done type of over the top level. That wanna leave early because the real guys that are. That are one in donors with a couple. Rare exceptions are probably going to the g. league selecting. That's it for all ball. I'm doug gottlieb. This is elbow. Hey guys it's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show. And i'm pretty much obviously because a wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later on my friends together so we get into a room and we do a radio. Show share our allies. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world possibly can and we looked through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by to hang out in share their lives and music too. So wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point. Seven w. m q in washington. Dc or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio app.

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01/18: Weekend preview: Virginia at Duke sets up as the best game of 2019 so far; will the final two unbeatens fall?

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

41:25 min | 2 years ago

01/18: Weekend preview: Virginia at Duke sets up as the best game of 2019 so far; will the final two unbeatens fall?

"Hey there. It's Dr Gary pairs, it's Friday January eighteenth two thousand nineteen welcome back to the island college basketball podcast, where we sometimes discuss camel fighting an leaky black Matt norlander is here within it's been a fun few days since we last recorded on Tuesday morning, ole miss and North Carolina State, both loss to unranked opponents and almost did it at home. I always state one at Texas Tech, Kansas state, one at Oklahoma. So now everybody in the big twelve has at least one loss and now once again Kansas his projected by Kim bomb to win the league outright surprise surprise before we get into what's on tap of this weekend. I do want to spend just a few minutes on what Kansas state has done over the past nine days because I really do think it's the best week to week season flip in the nation. Check this out. So Kansas state goes to the elite eight last season brings back. Some good pieces is ranked twelfth in the preseason people eleventh in the preseason coaches poll, and then the Wildcats start six into with. No, good, winds and. Double digit loss to Marquette at a forty seven forty six loss at Tulsa. So now, they're unranked right, then the inner big twelve play with a ten and two record, but still no Goodwin's on the resume, and then Kansas state loses the big twelve opener to Texas, then lose to Texas Tech. So now a window in the league. And then last Wednesday night, they're down eighteen points at home to West Virginia. Obviously on the verge of drop into Owen three with games at Iowa State and at Oklahoma on deck in other words, oh and five in the big twelve is starting to look very possible if not probable, but then they race at eighteen point deficit last Wednesday. They beat West Virginia. Then they go and win at Iowa State over the weekend. And then on this Wednesday night, the one that just happened Kansas state wins that Oklahoma. So instead of being ten and seven overall, oh and five in the big twelve Kansas state is currently thirteen and four overall three and two in the big twelve because Kansas state overcame that eighteen. Deficit to beat West Virginia. Then one two road games as an underdog. That's how you flip a season norlander shelter. Bruce, Weber Shasta D. Wade shasta. Jacob pullen. Yes. Shasta riding mcgruder as well. Can't estate is thirty seventh in the net as we record this podcast two and two quad. Went opportunities a lot to a lot of work to be done one and two and in quad two and hasn't taken a bad loss yet this season dean, Wade's return is unquestionably extremely important. And I would even argue that and watching some of okay states done he's important. But you have we have not seen the best of him or the best of this team to come. I get the feeling that one case data will better than it was last season in terms of the seating. I think it wind up with better than a nine. But I do think that because of the big twelve being someone interchangeable I don't think Kansas state is going to compete for the top of the league table. I don't think anyone really is expecting that. But let's just say. Case state winds up going ten eight in the league or something like that. Maybe even eleven to seven let's go optimistic. I still think it's going to enter selection Sunday into Italy tournament as. Afterthought sounds harsh. But unfortunately, there are certain programs that unless they have superstars or are in the midst of amazing seasons. Do not get the, publicity and credit they deserve. And I would I would put Kansas state in that kind of category with a number of other ones. I mean, I would say if Oregon state had a season in which it went twenty six and nine or whatever it just wouldn't get a lot of recognition because it's organ state. I feel like Kansas state in the job that Bruce Weber is done there in the big picture has been a little bit. A little less unheralded than maybe then maybe is deserving. He's gone to the tournament for the past seasons. It'll be five and seven because I don't see how Kansas state will not get there. But yes, you are correct. The flip on this has been significant. And now it gets to home games of coming TCU in Texas Tech just split those winning. Both would really really changed the outlook on case it overall. But I don't expect it to win both of them frankly, but they're fun and. Xavier sees a good player. But berry Brown. See? I would I would list berry Brown who's their senior kind of pogo sticks shooting guard. I would list him among top twenty most watchable players in all of college basketball Cates, better pieces, just because they're not the flashiest team. And you're you're not used to making them appointment television. Doesn't mean that they're not a good team. They are quality. And where do they fall right now for you and your rankings GP? They're not. I mean, there are under consideration there right there. They'd be in the top thirty thirty five something like that. But right now, and I get people asking the time. Why don't you have Kansas state ranked? Why don't you have? I can't remember who the other team is I- away state. Why don't you have state rate because right now there's about ten teams that could reasonably be twenty six in the top twenty five and one canes estates one of them. I will states one of them the team that I have there. I awoke is one of them. And it really just comes down to when people ask the question. Why don't you this team, right? Because I stop at twenty six instead of twenty eight is just where we draw the live like between Brington unranked. If I if I write twenty eight I will state might be twenty seven canes estate might be twenty eight you know. So those are good no different than the teams. I have really twenty four twenty five twenty six it's just that you draw the line somewhere. And that's where I drew the line. I don't know how fun Kansas state is. But I just think it's a fascinating story not only because they flip the season. But because Bush Weber as you mentioned doesn't get probably. Around the nation. I know Kansas state fans right now probably going to punch us in our throat because I don't think he's the most popular coach in history among his own fan base. But he's done big picture. A fine job there. And it was on the verge of like really getting bad. I mean when you're into and down eighteen at home to West Virginia or anybody you're supposed to Owen three. And then you've got road games against incidentally, tournament teams coming up two of them. So you're supposed to go to Owen five the reason, I know all this stuff because we were sitting in studio, and we were talking about it. Oh, my God key issues about to Owen three have you seen what's next for them? They might be in five in the big twelve after being top fifteen in the preseason people but their race that deficit beat West Virginia. Then go on the road and to when two road games. I just think it's a pretty not only season flip, but maybe like career extender for Bruce Weber potentially. But I wanna see what the rest of the season plays out as and I don't like. Let me rephrase that I don't it would take an utter collapse. I think for for it to really cause Bruce. I believe got a extension this past offseason. Sure. Yeah. I don't think he'd get fire. But you know, what I mean like it real bad? And now, it's not so bad at all share absolutely on the big twelve no real quick here. I mean, that's Kansas state is an interesting story that begins to develop, and you mentioned I I did want a shed just a quick light on Iowa State was able to do. I don't parish. I don't think I don't think Texas Tech will lose again at home this season. And I say that the believing one that Kansas is gonna win the league things are breaking Kansas as way. But I think you would take a loss there. And I was state now has the home win. It's head a weird stretch. We talk about like how case it flipped Iowa State has sandwiched. To weird losses with one of the best pair of wins any team that could boast in college basketball at this point in the season winds at home against Kansas in very convincing fashion. Just wins at Texas Tech. And did it by the way with the late push against by you. Impressively done because I was state which has a fairly a fairly good offense in my opinion and loads of talent arguably the most talent in the league now with with Kansas issues, we still don't know if when he's gonna get cleared in the nose Buki, of course, but in between that they lose at Baylor, which is it's not a horrendous loss, but Baylor could be ninth or tenth in the league. And you won't you don't wanna try and take that kind of L when you're trying to build momentum. And then yes drops the game at home by one to Kansas state, but I always state rebounds. Well, and now the big twelve everyone's taking a loss. And it's obviously tech in Kansas atop the league. And then the two loss teams as of right now K state as you mentioned TCU and Baylor everyone else has at least three losses big twelve going to get really wacky really weird and hurry lasting on big twelve TCU. I had this in the court report on Wednesday at that point. It was not optimistic. It was getting Jalen Fisher back anytime soon and might not even have for the rest of the season because of complications from his niece. Jory? He's now done not even just done for the foreseeable future. He's not returning to DC you the season. He's not returning to period, he will seek transfer. I think that's I think that's critical because I think Fisher was their most important all around player. Now, Desmond bane is the leading score. And he's done. He's done a great job. I think JD Miller's coming on and his son well in his senior season, but not to have Fisher. I just we talk about what case it's going to be going forward. Here parish TCU another team that doesn't get a lot of run on the puzzle that we've given Jamie Dixon, his fair share of of good chatter. Here be curious to see what they are going forward. I still think they'll crack through. But I now think that they're the most likely team in the big twelve that project says an instable attorney team to be on the bubble on the fence when we get this election Sunday with TCU, and Jalen fish. That's my little homie from Memphis by shutting it down. Now, it appears he'll be able to get a medical redshirt preserve a year of eligibility. So we'll see where ins up, but he's a he's a. Very good college basketball player win healthy, the problem. Of course, is that he's he's rarely healthy one thing on. I wha state before we move on. You mentioned how they've got a pair of great wins. You know, who the resume looks a lot like. Okay. Okay. Kentucky's Iowa's seats these two massive winds, but they're four and four against the top one hundred Kim, Tom Kentucky. Similarly, got these two massive wins. Right. They beat North Carolina. They've beaten Louisville. You know, what they argue at the top one hundred Kentucky four three and three three and three gets the top one hundred Kim bum. I was state four and four against the top one hundred Kim both of them get two big wins. But the quantity doesn't doesn't quite match up with the quality. We'll get to Kentucky a little later on this because they've got a big game this weekend. So I'm in Durham North Carolina for Saturday showdown between Virginia and do we're going to dive into that momentarily. But first check this out. Hey, y'all Simmons. I'm chip Patterson. We are the host of the cover three college football podcast here on CBS sports. The national championship game is in the books, but there's so much college football unpacked pardon. I'm excited about what we've got for the people in two thousand nineteen. That's right. My favorite time of year. And yes, it is. National signing day. But that's not what I'm talking about the coaching hires. We get to grade the press conferences can't wait to break that down for you. Also, spring practice can't buzz coming up all the optimism out there. We'll break it all down. Jess, right. We'll be having great guests. Will we have great analysis, and you can get all the five star content by subscribing to the cover three college football podcast on CBS sports. Find it anywhere. You get your podcasts. Hey, y'all Simmons. I'm chip Patterson. We are the hosts of the cover three college football podcast here on CBS sports. The national championship game is in the books. But there's so much college football to unpack pardon. I'm excited about what we've got for the people in two thousand nineteen. That's right. My favorite time of year. And yes, it is Nashville signing day. But that's not what I'm talking about the coaching hires. We get to grade the press conferences can't wait the break that down for you. Also, spring practice can't buzz coming up all the optimism out there. We'll break it all down. Jess, right. We'll be having great guests. Will we have great analysis, and you can get all the five star content by subscribing to the cover three college football podcast on CBS sports. Find it anywhere. You get your podcasts. So for Duke is scheduled for six PM eastern on Saturday at Cameron indoor stadium for Jinya is number one. In the coaches poll Duke is number one in the people. So this is a rare number one versus number one matchup. It'll be dukes first full game since trae Jones suffered a shoulder injury and that lost Syracuse. And it'll be genius first game since it just kicked the crap out of Judah tech by twenty two points. They shot fifty eight percent from the field in this game. Fifty four percent from three one hundred percent from the free throw line improved a sixteen to know. So like not only Virginia undefeated, they're really operating at a at a high level right now as you might have heard trae Jones as of this moment has not been ruled out of Saturday's game. It turns out the injury is not as severe as it looked Monday night. I was told trae didn't practice Thursday, but he was on the court doing some basketball things. Also told he's unlikely to play against Virginia. But nobody ruled it out that he's just definitely not playing against Virginia. Either way he is expected to play again soon. So that's good news for Duke norlander. Let's just get your thoughts on the trade Jones update and Duke Virginia in general, all my thoughts on the tray Jones update is that you are a Clack because on the previous podcast your diagnosis as a doctor was that he was going to miss definitively at least the next four or five games that is not the case anymore. So I gotta take it a task this is so should I lose? I lose my medical if he is playing if he is playing again within a week. Yeah. I'm afraid. That's listen this podcast. But like, Dr death, listen to Dr Ted I haven't, but the credibility of this podcast is what helps it thrive? And when your hand when you're out here with conviction handing out these diagnoses. And then you're coming. Back forty eight hours later saying, you know, what they're not ruling them out. No, you said you set it Dr. No. I know I should do. I have to turn my stethoscope. No. I think he's still needed where that stuff scope. I'm gonna wear must go. No matter what we're in this. I better see you on the sideline and indoor rocking legit stethoscope. Okay. I gotta do CBS sports HQ hit here litter on today. I should do it with a stethoscope. You know, what why not casually just have it drape? Don't mention it. Don't wear it only. The only the podcast listeners. We'll get it. And by the way. Yes, parishes in Durham, I'm gonna get to the Jones off real quick here. But Peres interim obviously going to be writing covering that game for CBS sports, h q I will be in studio for H Q this weekend. So please as you're watching the games on your phone on your ipad on your computer. It is a genuinely really good informative. Second screen experience. Encourage you to check in throughout the day. We'll begin you updates highlights analysis GPO becoming from durum. So keep an eye on that as for Duke and in Virginia and this game overall. We'll have we have our picks and our projections on CBS sports dot com as a Friday afternoon, be sure to go check that out the wool. We'll probably spoil our specific aim here. Amid the other ones we have on the site. I don't think trae Jones will play not just because it's obvious. But I also just don't think it's worth it because given the immediate reaction, and I know you said he was doing basketball things. I don't believe you wanna put him in that situation against that team. You gotta play Virginia. Again, you've got a long rigorous ACC schedule and really shefty and that staff to seem too smart to put him in a position where even if he's at ninety five percent hell call it ninety nine percent and something weird happens like he just catches an elbow from Andre hunter than than what are you doing? So I don't expect it to be on the floor. And absent of that how Duke is going to run it's off into it's going to be really curious to me. I don't think we're going to have a James harden like RJ Barrick going for forty nine points on zero assists and having it all go through him. I don't think that's going to be the case at all. The biggest plot to me in this game. Is that Duke is coming off one of the worst three point shooting performances ever under Mike suggesting Syracuse in that zone. Now, it goes up against a Virginia team that defense three obviously extremely well. This is also tracking to be the worst three point shooting team for Duke. And at least two decades, it rebound from such a bad performance beyond the arc and shoot well from deep because if it doesn't does it have the ability to win inside. I'm not convinced it. Does. And then the other obvious one is I'm Williamson and what he is. And all he can do and all he represents going up against what will be the most interesting and toughest defensive assignment he has faced yet. They still have a lot of talent. I am going to take Duke to win this game close. I really really hope that it lives up to the hype. But this is a fantastic one. And only the fourth time ever only the four time ever trivia time trivia time, I think you know, this because it's kind of been out there. But maybe don't. So it's the four time ever we've had the it's a battle of number ones because for Julia's one in the coaches poll Duke is one of the poll can you name any of the previous three times that one played one? I think I can I haven't seen it anywhere. I anybody listens podcast. I don't remember much. But I, but I do remember this. I feel like we had Kansas Oklahoma not too long ago. But a yield, right. That is right. One four sixteen Kansas beat Oklahoma in an absolute epic one. Oh, nine one six that is the most recent instance, I do not remember the other to okay, the other the other one if you'd asked me before I found this out I would have gotten one of the teams, right? But I couldn't told you the other team. And I remembered it happening because I remember it being a kind of big deal. It was in two thousand seven. It's funny that the twenty sixteen game one nine hundred six the previous one Ohio State forty-nine Wisconsin, forty eight incredible no cheating. No cheating. Can you? Tell me one player on each of those Wisconsin and Ohio State teams from that says. Yes, okay. Ohio State would have had Mike Conley. Greg Oden, right? You're correct. So that's that's kind of an easy giveaway. Okay. But okay. What about the what what's same Wisconsin? Who was the all American player of the year? Kids start for the a his name start for the year. Correct. You can't. But can you name him? Oh my God. What's his name? How could I not remember his name start for the day does start with an a? Podcast listeners just saying allowed on the treadmill in their cars, washing dishes Alonzo Tucker decker launch Tucker. Yes. Tucker was on that team Marcus land. Awesome. I love London. Very good player. Very good player. Joe crabbing Hoffa's on that Wisconsin team. So that was the other instance. And then prior to that the only other time this happened. You wouldn't get this was nineteen sixty. No, I knew this one a why I'm just kidding, okay? My. I was like no shot. I guess it would have been in the tournament. Technically, Cal seventy seven Cincinnati sixty nine. So those are the three previous cool thing. Number one versus number one. We've had many more instances of obviously if number one versus number two in the people are coaches bowl. But we get a rare to hear GP what are your expectations and thoughts on this one. I'm glad you brought up to three point shooting. Because I thought there was an interesting quote from Thomas battle Syracuse tire spats after Monday's game. He said the following quote. We were just letting them shoot three just backing up and trying to limit science touches as much as possible. So this wasn't just something that happened in that dukes air accused game. This is something that Syracuse made happen in that dukes here accused game Duke was nine of forty three from three twenty point nine percent. And on the season. Now Duke shooting thirty one point eight percent from three that ranks two hundred sixty seventh nationally statistically speaking. There is nothing does worse than shoot ring. Pointers and you've been guarding three point line. Not just really good literally the best in the country teams are shooting twenty five point one percent from three against Virginia it ranks, first nationally. So this is a real problem. It's something Syracuse recognized and you don't have to be like Brad Stevens to recognize that you just have to have Kim pump subscription. Syracuse invited to do didn't just shoot forty three three pointers by access. Syracuse dared them to do it. And it did not go. Well, and now like just a few days later, you gotta play the team. That's literally the best guarding three point line. That's not a good combo. It's not let's see over under here. So let's split that. Okay. Between dukes average Virginia's average over under Duke making twenty eight point five percent of its three point attempts on Saturday against Virginia. I'll take the over so a lot. But I don't I don't feel great about it. But I'll take the over. I'm not asking you. How you? The over. Yeah. Because I think duke's going to win the game. Just like you think duke's gonna win the game. And you can't I don't think you can win the game shooting below that. It would be a tough ask it really would. I I'm kind of on the similar wavelength with GP. I think it will play better and shoot better from deep. I mean, Jack white window of ten and almost like they were just trying to shoot themselves out of a funk, and what was weird against Syracuse? It was such a tight game wound up not being able to afford it. Even got to overtime the final numbers on that. By the way, we're nine of forty three from three point range for Duke and Syracuse just that that is so low that's only what twenty one percent. I don't think it will be that bad. But we'll see my last in this game. And obviously on the Sunday podcast. We're going to spend some time talking about it. No matter how it goes. If if for Jinya wins this game. Like convincingly if it winds up seventy three to sixty one. It'll be intriguing to see how everyone reacts response more Virginia than maybe Duke, even though Duke is almost always a story, regardless of result. But in this instance, the game being on duke's or if Regina was to do that and remained undefeated and Michigan lost its game. She can play. Hello at Wisconsin. We've just mentioned Virginia's the lesson to feed us ending. Which was my prediction when we made those predictions like a month ago or whatever on the pod. I'll be pretty be pretty intrigued by how will will view. The Cavaliers still think people are gonna wait until March two to make their judgments on this team. But whatever they've been they've been dominated over all. And and I think they've got the capability to do it. But I don't expect. I don't expect them to do it. But it would be a hell of a statement if they wound up walking out of Cameron indoor as double digit victors. They not only are capable. They're they're they're, you know. I don't know what the points per it'll be I imagine will be the Dubai point or two, but it's going to be right around there. So it's not even we're not asking them to do something. That's outrageous. If they win at Cameron indoor this weekend, especially tracheal doesn't play it won't even be in the top ten upsets of the weekend in college basketball. And again, they're just coming off an incredible game against Judah tech. Fifty eight percent for the fifty four percent from three one hundred percent from the free throw line while holding for junior tech below sixty points. Julia plays anywhere close to the way that it played against Virginia Tech. I do think that they'll win the game. But I've just going to rely on this, and perhaps this is just oversimplifying. But I'm gonna take the team that steel even without trae Jones has three projected top five picks and it starting lineup playing at home. Like, how do you? How do you intelligently pick against the team? That's got three top five picks playing at home. I'm just gonna take that team. Right. Yeah. Over genius forty seven and three in his last fifty games, which is just absurd. How do you pick that team? Yeah. How do you pick against a team? That's won twelve straight games. In in the ACC on the road on the row twelve straight road victories for Virginia. So you can you can place it either way. It's. This is this is this is a real treat here. This is this is a special special game on Saturday. And we've got some other intriguing ones that we're gonna touch on real quick here in a minute. But, but you know, you don't get this kind of matchup all that often. Because with every that just Jinyan Dugan undefeated team playing at Duke and all that it's what Duke has the season. It's the subplot of not having trade Jones most likely and then Virginia coming off the first ever sixteen over a one and now still being undefeated only one to two teams left and enroute to getting the sixteen to no, it's not winning games. Fifty five to fifty. It's it's putting up eighty one points on a Virginia Tech team that was allowing one of the top five in points allowed defense and it didn't matter whatsoever. So I really hope we get a nice one my official prediction ought to do can close. But to underline the point. We just may I don't know how you pick against a team. That's got three top by picks playing at home. I also don't know how you pick against a team. That's playing the way for juniors playing like it really is. Either team that you pick against if the if the result is opposite of what you suggested you'll go Jesus. How could I why would I have picked against that team? They had three top five picks playing at home or what they literally never lost a season. Why would I think they were gonna lose now? So it's just a tremendous matchup. I'm looking forward to it. I don't want to spend a lot of time on this. But I do wanna spend just a moment on Scottie Pippen made headlines this week when he said that Williams Williamson should just shut it down said he secured his place atop the draft only bad things can happen. If he keeps playing so why keep playing you. And I haven't talked about this at all. So I want to hear your reaction to that. And then I'll give you mine. It's not a it's not a bad opinion. I he's I understand where Pippen is coming from with this. It's not going to happen. Let's make that clear. And if it did, well, if it did it'd be the biggest story in sports. Let's be let's be real short. Short of what the Super Bowl is bringing forthcoming Zion. Williamson quitting playing for Duke would be the biggest story in sports. If he did it midseason, it's not going to happen. But there's the what he is saying has validity. It is the next step. I don't I don't expect. We'll get to this being regularity. If you told me that we saw it happened twice in the next decade. I would believe you in that is player sitting out for bowls that don't matter and cultural and players opting to maybe try and take the G league route. If they think that they've got a shot at into the NBA, and they want to make a little coin right away capitalize off of their marketing. And we've already talked about all that stuff. And how some of that's overblown, but the idea of of a first round talent stepping away from his team in the middle of the season to preserve NBA draft stock and not chance getting injured. I can see that being a rarity but happening I don't see it happening here. And also the chance for injury in basketball, obviously, trade Jones just got hurt. But again, again, he's expected to return soon is not at the. Same kind of risk as in football whereas much more violent game and in particular Zion. Williamson who looks as indestructible of college player not to say that he is infallible. He's not. But he looks as indestructible as a college player as frankly we've ever seen. So this makes for easy fodder. A lot of talking points. I'm going to -ssume that Pippen believes it, obviously it came on ESPN which generates so much Zion Williamson content. It kind of keeps that wheel going and Greece's into a heavy degree. I is not going to happen. If Williamson decided to do it I wouldn't necessarily hugely object to it because it's his prerogatives. And then he's gotta deal with with any of the fallout. What are your tick? Well, I I just think it's funny that he is being brings a hall of Famer on ESPN. And then he tries to say that the ratings bonanza that is I on Williamson for ESPN should shut it down. I mean, like ESPN executives can't be happy about that. Although it did produce content and debate so perhaps. They are. Here's what I would say. If Zion wanted to do it. I I would not write the column saying what does this young men doing because I don't think he should be in college, my fundamental belief in this is that these guys are Barrett Cy on Williamson. Michael porter, jR, any of the obvious one and done talents that we see come to college basketball. I loved that. They played college basketball. It makes the sport more interesting. It's better for me. Personally. It's better for you. Personally. I don't know that it's better for them personally. And so I'm let the record show. I'm always if you put it to vote tomorrow. Can we just let high school players go straight it in the NBA draft? They want to I will vote. Yes. Every time. I've never been in a place in in my adult life where I would have voted. No that said. I actually don't think Zion quote should shut it down right now. Because to insist that he should is to imply. To insist that he should because he's secured a certain draft status is to imply that he should only care about his draft status. And I haven't talked design about this. But I imagine what Zion would tell you or his stepfather holding a baby would tell you is that that's just not true that there are other things that matter. That's why they're in college to begin with. And I bet if you talk design on thirty years from now when he's fifty and three hundred seventy five pounds. Okay. He would tell you that he's going to look back at one year. He spent the Duke as one of his favor years in his life. Because when you talk to professional basketball players, if they went to a college where they had a experience, and obviously being ranked number one in the country. You don't support center every night playing with other great players playing a game. Like they're gonna play on Saturday. Those are good memories. They tell you that you know, man that was. Most fun I've ever had. And so I think sometimes people make the mistake of a Suming that these elite prospects only care about being prospects some of them do, but I think most of really enjoy being a player, and I think Zay on for that reason is that going to shut it down nor should he because there's always a risk of injury. But the risk of basketball is much as you point out lower than it is in football. Although we have had a lottery picks each of the past two years suffer. Season ending injuries. I knowledge that. But I just don't think we're going to get to a place where basketball players are starting to season with the team securing a place in the draft and then going, okay. That's it like like should John Morand. Just shut it down right now. I know those at eastern Illinois wish you would don't although from on Thursday night and saying I know what you're saying. He's gonna shut it down. Just because he's now an undeniable Toptan piggery he probably loves what he's doing right now averaging big points pig assist with friends on his way to maybe going to the tournament. And so you mentioned that football players do this all the time when it gets to the bowl gang, correct? But not to the college football playoff. You know, you don't you? Don't see Alabama's player shutting it down or clemson's player. Shutting down you see? Memphis running back shutting it down said. All right. That's it. I'm not I don't care about playing in the Birmingham bowl. What's the point? That you weigh the pros and cons and the pros don't outweigh the cons. So you just shut it down. So I any projected lottery pick who's playing for a good team doing good things. I don't think those guys are going to shut it down, nor should shut it down. I think Scotty was being a little myopic here. Yes, I am. We've had secured his place probably a top draft. But there's other things that are important design and to walk away from a now would be. Would run counter to those things? I think I I agree with most of that. And it's also he loves he loves playing with those guys for that coach it's inside the locker room. It's a different situational together. All right GP. We've got the games you want to get to know Kentucky. Auburn do got Michigan Wisconsin teach. You can state. What else? Well, I think there's two big games outside of the ones. We've already talked about this week at least two games that resonate with the audience hopefully talking to right now the only other game between two teams ranked in the people that scheduled for this weekend is Kentucky at Auburn. It is number twelve Kentucky at number fourteen. Auburn tip is scheduled for four PM eastern while good road win. Or are you taking Bruce pro? Well, you mentioned Kentucky being three and three against the top one hundred. It's almost the inverse of the Duke Virginia conundrum because Kentucky is. Been up and down. How could you pick them? Well, Auburn you make easy case that the three toughest games. Played Duke NC state ole miss has lost all three. Now. Auburn gets the benefit of having this game on his home floor. But. Neither of these teams have passed all the tests as they've played their best opponents so far this season. I'm gonna take Auburn in this one. Not just because of the home floor. I don't know what the line I'm gonna guess the line is the Tigers minus three for Auburn. It's got the guards Bryce Brown fund due to watch play basketball. Jared. Harper has been good and Austin Wylie has been has been pretty solid on the whole overall. So I like what they've got to compete with Kentucky's roster. Once fashion Hagans can have a belief seventh straight game with at least three steals. That's already a program record. Auburn isn't the best ball handling team in America. So I think Higgins actually has a decent shot at that. But this is this is this should be a fun one should be a good one. And to me, it's the second most interesting game of the dates four PM tips. You'll actually catch this as the lead in to the UVA do game. I'll take the Tigers. What about you? I think that's the most compelling thing about this game. Is that it's two teams? That are undeniably good, but both of whom have really questionable resumes election. Auburn is Owen three against three teams that has played and Kentucky is three and three against the top. One hundred like Kentucky fans are hit me on Twitter every day. Like, why do you have Kentucky ranked where you have Kentucky rang got him like nineteenth or twentieth or something, you know, now. Now, I'm an idiot who doesn't watch basketball which may be true, by the way. I'm busy, but like same people same people who thought I was smart for ranking Kentucky number one in the preseason. Are now calling me an idiot for having Kentucky outside of the top fifteen which is long. We're being honest having Dougie number one in the preseason much more audit having. Than having Kentucky wherever I have Kentucky right now. So they're just being fans bless bless their hearts, but. The I never see Kentucky fans. Be so proud of a team that's three and three against the top one hundred like using the proud of a team. That's like got one loss in ranked in the top three but Kentucky van super proud of this team this three three and three against the top one hundred ten pump Auburn with three against the best teams played. So both these teams I think need a need a win not to do anything other than prevent people from asking questions about them. Because thinking about what a loss does a loss. Drops Auburn to import against the four best teams play and a loss drops Kentucky two three and four against the top one hundred Kim palm. So big game important game for both football teams. I think Auburn wins only because auburn's at home. If you played this at Rupp, I'd take Kentucky if you've played it on a neutral court. I'd flip a coin. But I'll take Auburn at home to win this game improved a fourteen in three and and have really it's it's first big win of the season. If you want. Something more specific its first top forty Kim palm win of the season. And then the other game that is interesting as Michigan, Wisconsin. Because. Both of the teams that are undefeated in the country undefeated right now, the only in the country are on the road against quality. Opponents this season quality Ponant right now. It's for Judah at Duke and Michigan at Wisconsin. Michigan. Wisconsin tips at noon eastern, Michigan seventeen zero. But Wisconsin is just even at the computer, still like them. They're just eleven and six they've lost four their past five lost Minnesota at home Purdue at home, the coal center is is typically a took place to play not so much lately. I know a few podcasts we've mentioned this earlier Utah. Michigan might get caught. Here you stick with that. Or have you lost faith in Wisconsin? I'm gonna stick with it. I think this is the exact type of game that was -sconsin wins. I think it'll be within six points almost the entire game. Think it'll be four points max with a minute to go. I will take Wisconsin to win this. And there's not a lot indicating that it should dropping for the past five. It's only win over bad Penn State. And what it did it out of conference? There's not I'll ton. They're nice win over. Okay. A home but not much else. And that being said, I'm still I'm still going to take them. Ethan hap- Brad Davidson, pretty good reliable shooter dementia trice on underrated. And maybe needs to have a big game in this one to have shot against Michigan. So I will I will take the badgers. They're, but I get the sense that you will not. I'm trying to think of what I picked for our expert picks. I think I picked Wisconsin. But I can't remember. To myself just understand this because I have no idea what I did twelve hours ago. Right. But I I this reminds me a little bit of I don't know if you watched it the other night, but UCF at Wichita state like UCF is rolling, you know, borderline top twenty five team first place in the American converts which state winless in the league not good right around five hundred. But at some point you just go. All right. That's that's coke arena. That's Gregg Marshall. That's Wichita state. They're just not gonna lose another home game. And they end up winning the home game. Now, I'll be honest. I picked you up to win that game. So I'm just wrong about everything. But this feels like that like, even the Wisconsin isn't playing well and hasn't been good. It's still Wisconsin in the Colson once upon a time, and maybe this is Paul Ryan time and not necessarily great guard time, but once upon a time you just did not pick against. Wisconsin at home. And so I'll take Wisconsin at home. Plus it's just easier for the top twenty five and one if for Jinya loses that Duke and Michigan. Loses at Wisconsin. Because I've got Tennessee number one right now. And I hear about it every day. Although I don't know what you guys are talking about. Because like Tennessee beats the crap out of everybody. Like, do you know that when Tennessee beat Arkansas the other night, it became just the third power conference team in the past twenty years to start a league leaks four no with with winds total by a combined one hundred points or more? I did not only only two teams in the past twenty years in a power conference have done that and Tennessee became the third. So like when I moved to the seat number one. It was nobody argued because they had they had the best resume or at least something close to the best resume at the time. And literally since that moment all they've done is beat the crap out of everybody. So I don't know why people are thinking so absurd. Some people just Michigan for fans think it's so serve Tennessee's number one. But it gets really complicated. If for for Judas undefeated coming up wins over Georgia Tech Duke and Michigan's undefeated coming off a win at the coal center. So it is best for the top twenty five and one for Michigan lose Virginia lose. So in the purely rooted in selfishness, I'll take a I'll take Wisconsin to give Michigan its first loss of the season. But we'll say Devon Downey. Shouts to Chester, South Carolina. Shouts deteriorated until he's legend Chesler now. And if you haven't done it already, please go subscribe to the college basketball pockets be apple podcasts. Rated favourably five stars. Nice comments. That's all I've ever asked from. It's all I ever remember asking from you. And it only takes a couple of seconds. So if you've done it already, thank you. Sincerely, it really does help. If you haven't done it, please just pop over there and do it, and I'll be I'll be very proud of you. And then we'll talk to you again on Sunday night 'til then take.

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Doing Battle

Get Up!

43:01 min | 1 year ago

Doing Battle

"Morning at his time to get up with the aftermath of a hideous night on and mostly off the floor in Kansas. How did it happen? Watch the ramifications locations meanwhile the classic confrontation great person's great but can any defense slowdown. Patrick Mahomes and the cowboys. They're talking about deal with that. We'll tell you why the trouble in big D is just beginning all that and more as we get up with you from New York starting right now now. We are as you can see Jane Pack as we are ready to go counting it down to the Super Bowl in a whole lot more but this is not where we anticipated beginning this morning. At last night Allen fieldhouse in Lawrence Kansas. But this is where it happened. College basketball at a massive brawl marring the end of the game number three Kansas and rival Kansas state these so the final second so just dribbling out the clock. And then Dejean Gordon steals the ball. Silvio comes over block the shot and stands over him staring him down. Aw that begets this altercation. Both benches empty punches thrown dissociate at some point in here picks up a stool and appears ready to use it as a weapon before an assistant coach grabs it from him. Local police help to eventually break up the brawl. which spilled into the seating area where fans with disabilities? We're sitting. Here are both coaches on the incident. Obviously it's embarrassment It's it's not something that you'd be proud of. You know this. What happened is absolutely zero? Besides toughness I mean I it's it's a It's a sign of immaturity and selfishness more so than it is toughness but still it's inexcusable. I mean these. These can't have did. This doesn't have anything to do with competition that those were selfish motives on why it took place at the end you win with class you losers class disappointing that anything had to happen at the end. It's bad bad play. It's disappointing life lessons for our young guys. Hopefully next time though they'll be a little smarter. Richard Jefferson what's your reaction to this brawl like everything that coach said Bruce. Weber's comments there. I don't think we're as has aggressive as they should be not only to like his team but just to all of college basketball because in that moment you're going to talk to every kid out their kids that are coming in errands is that are possibly looking at your school and so I guess disappointment. We've seen enough of these bras. We understand what's going on in these moments but I just really believe that look. This is inexcusable. But coaches coaches are the parents when coaches show up and he was like well you know this is not the performance we want for our kids like no you need to be lighting into your kids and you need to be lighting in to anyone. That's asking that question Jay. This is not acceptable. This is wrong. There shouldn't be fights but I also I want to put this in perspective. This is the rivalry game. This is the rivalry game and look the Cape May to play at the end. He stole the ball gotTa Shop Lock. This is the bigger issue with Severe Soza. I think he will be suspended and could be and should be suspended but also December last year. He sat out all last year due to an investigation by NCWA EH. Kansas is under investigation by the NC. Double A. Okay. So this is just compounded upon. What's already happened this year? Even if you bring into snoop dogg incident like you. You know midnight manage all these things have been leading an and this is why overall. I don't see a long term play for bill self to be Kansas I really do I really see Bill Self coaching an NBA team. I know he has ties into the San Antonio Spurs I can see bill self in time becoming an NBA separates. Jerry's Judah for things. Let's we'll go big picture like that in a minute. Let's go little picture suspension. What should it be should the player? Silvio disowned circular. I heard Jay Bilas heard Dick by towel. That's what suspended spended. Yes how significant. Obviously they'll be a suspense I even though he didn't get a chance to use the chair. It wasn't because he individually decided to put it down out is because someone took the chair out of his hand he actually turned over his shoulder and said who took my weapon. Yeah he should be. Rj for twenty years. The right to bear chairs in this country. You the joke. Thank hire I agree with you. He should be suspended the fact they should be suspended for the rest of the season. You should never Kansas uniform again. I think a little bit streams. That's really funny. We you know we are not allowed to be very harsh and critical on kids because their college and then also we are like the thing about being a kid is. You're going to make mistakes in the heat. At the moment there's still learning opportunity there for civil desouza and I don't want to take away a whole season. Maybe ten games games one hundred percent. How do they because look? This doesn't really matter as all of this factors in but they are a favorite. Kansas is to win the national title title. According to Caesar sportsbook how does this get handled for the rest of the team because there were a lot of players that were involved in this and we are expecting the big twelve to hand down some suspensions. This is where I get lost because I haven't seen all the footage to lend a proper perspective on this like I don't be rude the first punch. I just saw him pick up the chair right. So you don't even see the reaction of who I was a push somebody else pushed and then it goes into a white shot so look the players coming off the bench. They got a jacket from the game. They might take a one game suspension. I don't think overall this is going to hurt Kansas to win a championship. It probably takes away from the lack of depth from the front court vision and help well. Should it hurt Kansas Asto with this type of display interesting again. There's a pattern of behavior. This was an isolated incident that you are upset about an everyone. Everyone should be furious about. This doesn't happen very often in college basketball. This happens a lot more professionals boards when there's even more than guys or even doing a little bit more crazy things so I look at this. You suspend the people that initiated this thing you set some ground rules you let people know that are running off the bench at this will not be tolerated but also too. I think webber it needed to be in his. The press conference needed to be a little bit more damning of everything that just went the way. The whole thing happened was complicated. Because Bruce Weber kept saying that he didn't see what happened has that's the part of it yes. They were already in the handshake line. Many people were and so as a consequence of that those are the players who come running over the. It's one thing to come off the bench. They're all kind of walking over to shake. The game is basically over now. They put one tenth of a second back on the clock and make people shoot free throws at the end of this for reasons known only to them. I guess that's the rule and they have to do it but one way or another. The look is a terrible moment. It is a terrible night and I believe that the question that comes up I is is it on the schools to discipline the players is it on the conference discipline the players is it on the NC Aa to discipline the place who needs to step in here and make the immediate decisions as to what happened. I think it's going to be on. I think it's a bigger replay. I think it should be on the coaches in the schools because the coaches are the ones that are going to recruit kids and recruit families and they need to be the ones that say. This isn't going to be tolerated in it the NCW wants to add more more to that and say hey look five is not enough. We're going to suspend them for an extra five. This is a robbery game. Where our I share back the Bachelor Arizona's fine but just shares do not get thrown because it's a rivalry game versa? Don't don't change the commer. He didn't throw a chair. Weapons do not get picked up picked up a chair and got Wayne yes but he did not use hints. He did not use the chair. Okay there's intent there but he did not use different ten. That's fine. I guess that's fine all right we will continue this obviously. That was something that we didn't see coming last night. We'll get to the football here but we will have more thoughts on this as the morning continues and as the fallout begins. In the meantime as we start can't get down to the Super Bowl it. As a tale of two elite units the chiefs offense they average over thirty two points a game with Patrick Mahomes. The most for any quarterback in the Super Bowl era with multiple starts money talks. Meanwhile on the other side general manager John Lynch spent a league-high one hundred and nine million dollars on defense this year giving the niners the largest decrease in points per game allowed in the entire sport from one year to the next and don't forget defense wins championships. San Francisco Co allow the second fewest yards per game this season and have to top defenses. Have a record of eighteen and nine in the super bowl so we put our football crew together around us by the way are the jacket spectacular but anyway so we had this that yesterday. We for those of you. Who are watching? This organically came together. Top Up to defenses are fifteen and five in the super bowl in its history and fifty three super bowl. Twenty Times has one of the top defenses only five times thus has the offense beaten that one of those times you unfortunately are see. What's on the field? Aaron Rodgers. Beat your Pittsburgh steelers so in this day and age the great offense and the great defense who gets the edge well in this day and age doesn't necessarily always include Patrick Mahomes. That's the difference in this game. I'll be honest with you. This is what we were doing before our AFC championship the year. We lost to the Green Bay packers. We were watching the game. We were cheering for Jay Cutler. Because that that was the dude we wanted to play against not Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes to me already passed where Aaron Rodgers was at that time this was before the NBP's this is when he was just the sending to be the guy that Stephen they eventually called the head man. I talked about it all the time they were plays. I have planned out to make in the super bowl that that were perfectly except that Rogers was better than I was. He was better than we were that date. And this is the same thing I expect to happen. If the San Francisco for Cisco Forty Nine is when I will not be surprised but I will be surprised if it's because they shut down. Patrick Mahomes man I expect him to have an MVP caliber day that road. Your stress stressing me out the one that hit that threadneedle right. They're capable of doing that and much more while on the run. Maybe what his hand so I agree with you. That talking about the a best offense was the best defense doesn't count for the fact that we have possibly not possibly a statistically he's been the best quarterback that we've ever had in this league at least for the the first two years of his career doesn't account for that however pass rushes something different pass rush with four is something different because you see who's doing this scrambling stuff and he's you can continues. Patrick Hatrick mahomes with coverages. The problem you can use them he holds onto the ball makes a little play a makes a little run around until he gets his one of his guys. Isolated and kills you if the four pass password that the fourteen hundreds are able to get him down and get him to the ground. I do think that makes a bit of a difference. He's GonNa make some plays they're going to make some plays and I just have a hard time going against the new coal. Yeah he is. You've been spending a lot of time with the forty niners of the last couple weeks. What are they saying just about this match of an overall their confidence especially on defense they have a high level of confidence obviously if they should dominated both of their playoff games on defend? One trick here. Is that mahomes. been running around and quarterbacks get on moves and Garonne have given the forty niners fence a little bit more trouble is you. You look at five games against Seattle Arizona Baltimore All quarterbacks that are mobile they averaged they have. I have a lot about twenty four points a game not crazy but more than usual and it does matter so I think they have to approach mahomes and they know this differently than they approached kirk cousins Arain Rogers because of that mobility. That's right now in fairness not all mobile looks exactly the same. So you're talking about Lamar Jackson Calorie and Russell who mahomes who says run it pretty well the last few weeks. But he's not that Guy Right. He's not the kind of thing is the thing is he's worse than here's why he's worse. When you're playing Patrick mahomes especially with those weapons? You're trying to figure out ways whether it's double Travis Kelsey or if you're trying to double tyreek Hill and a Lotta Times you're playing made under so you lose people in the back of coverage. He's he's also so good throwing on the run. If you're a defender you have to plan their. That is my man in my area. Turn and face him to make sure he doesn't scramble before the second plane and so that makes it extremely difficult and since his injury and returning from the dislocated knee. Patrick Mahomes has been a great runner. Not just a good runner. He's he's affective he gets first. Downs gets touchdowns and if you come out of coverage he's going over your head for the bomb and that makes it even more stressful. Let's get to the other quarterback in this game Jimmy Garoppolo who of course everybody keeps talking about only through eighth passes in his last gig right okay. So why is that good. Do you trust him in a big moment with the game on the line against Patrick Mahomes. Trust is the fickle thing. I'm aware trust me. You could trust people on different levels do do I believe that Jimmy G. can do it absolutely. Would I rather to not have to depend on him to do it absolutely. We've watched him whether it was late in the game against Arizona's you look at even Seattle when they take the loss at home. Jimmy G. has made the required throws to win football games and not even so much just pointing out the saints. But if you're asking me would I be able to run the ball for eight yards a clip and him through eight balls orphanage not able to run the football and him at twenty eight against Patrick Mahomes. That's not what what I want. I don't want to have that level of trust if you get into a shootout with patching homes in your gun is Jimmy D. You'RE GONNA lose so I think you're right in order to win if it comes out. Do I think he's. He's capable of doing it. There's a chance that I think he's capable of making the requisite plays an important moment. But I think it's more likely that he won't do that so I don't know that I would absolutely only say I don't complete your point about there being level from running trust them but that's not a circumstance I think your teeth you would love to get in the fourth quarter and be down by score and give the ball to patch. Sunday was a forty niners ideal game because they love to run everything off the run game AAC throws Jimmy Johns four in the first first quarter two in the second quarter zero in the third quarter. That's because they were running for eight and a half yards a carry. They would love to do that but they recognize that they can't always do that. And they will point when you talk. Talk to forty nine or players and coaches. They'll point to the saints game where they had to score. Forty eight to win points those Arizona Games where Kyle was giving them trouble and they did have to win a shoot out. They believe he and can do it. Of course. Obviously they're going to say that but they also believe there's some evidence to support it. The other hard part is this. I remember when we played a Baltimore Ravens and we would come into the game troy nine nine James Harrison. We'd all be okay. We Not Susil. Go get a sack. That's going to be a fumble. We got a call goes we know a I don't get to pick. He might score a touchdown with Troy. You GotTa do some of that choice and so when you're watching Patrick Mahomes play offense coordinator and you're the the quarterback of the other team. You start to try to compete against him. You say okay I know. He put up thirty on the board. He's GonNa score here so I have to do some with a preparing for the Ravens at no point you know thank you know you're okay. Let's let's be fair here for just a moment. Okay I come not to bury Jimmy Garoppolo I come to praising before Jimmy Jimmy Garoppolo got to San Francisco. They were probably the worst team in the NFL. He got there. They won five straight games. He got hurt. They went four and twelve. He comes back and they're the one the seed in the NFC and they're in the Super Bowl so obviously he's doing something right. If nothing else is teammates believed him he doesn't he doesn't they. Don't go out on the field going on this guy again. I mean like they they. They're in a good frame of mind to play the Games. They believe he can make the throws and they and they all the teams dominique. That don't want to win the game. Throwing all yeah. There's a whole long list games. That are dying to throw it to their zero. I think the fans are different. But you're right. He's twenty three and five. That's impressive but that's not telling link. The entire story necessarily remember. Nick mullins was balling also. It's a fun thing is team Harlem Nights when Arsenio Hall was sitting out of there. Patrick Mahomes is the all the goods dude at any PA. That's the difference you can win without. He does that's what he needs to win. But you're not trying to put the game on his back and it's not an indictment on Jimmy G. he does. What's required of him to winning quarterback but still the shootout with Patrick Mahara? We continue to count down the days to the Super Bowl. Meanwhile one of the biggest stories around the rest of the NFL off season is the future of Dak I Prescott. It caused much guessing here yesterday. The big question remains will. The cowboys signed him to a long term deal. During this off season yesterday Stephen Jones address that contract situation in an interview the Dallas Morning News. He said of the situation quote. It's been urgent for us. We certainly want to get that done. That's our number one priority as we go into the off season is to hopefully find some resolution to it and get that done now. Dan Graziano. Because I've missed this because every single week since August I asked you what the the latest was on the Dak Prescott contract situation but let's just make it clear again. They have had a lucrative offer. We don't know specifically what it is on the table for for months and months to this point and we assume still do yes. Oh yeah they want to sign. Yeah that offered that. Whatever their number is right and whatever it is clearly isn't enough for him correct and I think that's the that's the simplistic summary of the situation for people? Why hasn't it gotten done? It's pretty simple. They have a number of. They haven't wanted to go over. He has a number he hasn't I wanted to go under. Whatever that difference is has to be broached before anything can get done and nothing's happened to make anybody wants Dak.? Prescott was willing to play out this season on a two million dollar salary. The leverage shifted toward him or at least didn't move toward the team. The team is willing to use the franchise tag on them. And as long as that's the case leverage is not not gonNA shift toward the player so right. Now there hasn't been any impetus for either side to move off of. It's not so glad you said that because Mr Foxworth that brings us to the point that Marcus fears may yesterday. He said if the cowboys tried to Franchise Tag Dak Prescott Dax should absolutely not sign. It should go to Kabul and hanging out with Zeke was last ear and let them figure it out with Adam what. I don't think that would do that. I love that as advice. And if I was his agent his mom his friend anybody I would tell them statement because I think he has leverage once he made it through last season under contract was getting paid two million dollars frankly. He's made it through the last three seasons where stealing from him I think that he should. He has the leverage in his paper. He doesn't show up. They need to pay them. And I don't understand how they can't find some agreement at some point. I'm not sure who's the one that's being unreasonable. But I think that I got to be in line with the contract. That's similar to a percentage that we little Russell Wilson Guy when Zeke Elliott held out that got him his deal that made him the highest paid running back. They didn't want to do that that he showed them. Here's what life is going to look like without me. They said all right fine you win if that Prescott did that I think the cowboys probably gave him what he likes. The other part is this. There is an amount of money that Dak Prescott can walk into a room and ask for that stupid. That is a dumb amount of money. Like Patrick Mahomes deal comes up no matter what he he walks in the room and says they're going to go. We could probably work with that. There's a number for Deck Prescott. That isn't there needs to be smart about this. Then they they can franchise tag him and if he wants to. He can sit home but that hasn't been something historically that. quarterbacks are willing to do for franchises tags about twenty seven twenty seven navarine come off to mail on the tape that twenty seven though so look back on the kirk cousins situation two straight franchise tags from Washington and he goes free. Reagents if you're willing to do that you can Max out you can do it. Cousins fully guaranteed contract is through the hard part. He played on the two million dollars season. Now Twenty seven seven may not be what he wants and it may not be what he deserves. But once you've got twenty-seven guaranteed you. Can you can start to look at. Okay well I can do this for two years and then maybe get my big contracts from where they don't want the one thing about this guy is just knowing Dak he's not gonNA sit out. I just don't see that happening at all. He's a team guy. He's a locker room guy and say what you want. The man could get his own money but either way it's going to put team I which opens up a whole. Can't they know that you know the Byrd that you're dealing with anything not GONNA fly way you're GONNA lead their lot here and we will. We're just getting started. I get up this morning. Everyone thought the dolphins we're going to take to Woah. But could they make a run a job. What would it take to get them? Can they make it happen. We're GONNA talk about it. Plus the owner of the Astros. Not exactly thrilled with I. Was the players responded to the summons stealing scandal. Wait until you hear what he wants them to do. In spring training you will as we continue. Get up on. ESPN get off is brought to you by GEICO. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance big half hour coming your way here on get up including in five minutes. What would it take to Pry Joe Borough away from Cincinnati? They may get get that answer. Richard Jefferson down for you. We will talk about bonds and clemens and their chances of ever getting into the hall of fame and then once favorite Ryan Clark will explain the sweet and I will read them and everyone will let in the meantime Campo time. He's looking bounce back this week against Grazziano. Who was the the oldest quarterback at the time of being drafted number one overall? That's the question. Richard Jefferson we'll have the answer next get up. ESPN ESPN. He's so fast. We're back on get up and the overwhelming expectation is that Joe Borough is going to be the first pick in the upcoming NFL NFL draft. If he is he would be the second oldest quarterback ever to be drafted number one overall Dan Grazziano who was the oldest quarterback at the time of being drafted number one overall. So He's a heisman trophy winner. WHO's probably going to go number one overall to the Cincinnati bengals? Hey so I'm thinking of somebody else who fit that description on the say it's Carson Palmer. Oh my to really good game that I'm wrong you're wrong. It was a heisman trophy. When when he was twenty three eight was vinny testaverde's Wearing on well done rations. I L in handball headquarters but I tell you what the Mono Mono between Grazziano and Hembo is is worth the price of admission every single day. Laura yeah him really nervous there all right so we just talked about Joe Borough seems to have solidified the number one overall pick in the NFL. They'll draft the question is will that pick made by the bengals this week. BENGALS director of player personnel do Tobin said an ESPN report that the team won't trade the the number one pick and was quote news to him so basically I kind of messed that up but basically what he's saying is it it. It was news to him. That people would say that they would even trade that number one pick or that they wouldn't either way actually get to the bottom of it. Does he ends up. The data on the exactly. The draft is confusing and crazy. But what are you hearing about. Whether whether or not the bengals would hold onto that pick or might be interested in somebody offering them something that would would make them trade it. Somebody wants told me. The draft is the worst time to be a reporter. Because anyone. Who's telling telling you something that's true doesn't want you to report it and anyone? Who's telling you something they want you to report? He's lying to you. There's no way to know what's real and what's not look. You're going to hear three more four months you're going to hear everything. Is it conceivable that the dolphins could move up to any pick. They want yes they have three first round pick. Hey bengals you can have all three of them. We love this guy that much at How could the bengals say no to a thing like that? Why would do tobin close anything off and say no way? We're not trading it because you want to leave yourself available for the best possible three months. We're GONNA hear a lot of stuff my expectation the expectation of the people. I'm talking to is that it's borough number one to the bengals but a lot can happen in three months and a lot will be thrown out there crazy scenarios all kinds of this choice. I mean I look forward to the crease scenario. I've been surprised by draft before Baker Mayfield jumps to mind and I guess also Lamar following his lazy date eight. So I'm not saying it's not a question but this decision has already been made for them. This is what you get fired off a lot of you. Don't draft this guy right now even if he goes somewhere else and his mediocre you can't not draft Graf the heisman trophy winner. WHO's had the best season that passing quarterback as head in? He's from Ohio. Like you can't pass this up in the day for you. Listen sounds logical right. It sounds like common sense. Common Sense isn't common. And we've seen that before I mean I was sitting here at Shawn Watson put on one of the greatest displays blaze in College Football playoff history. And I'm like well. They got to drive this guy but you know what they do. The Chicago bears move up to get Mitchell trubisky and then the next two guys are Patrick. mahomes Shawn Watson. I believe people would talk themselves into and out of a lot of things. And they're gonNA find a way to get into the conversation to see what they could get for someone wanting borough. This guy is different though because Joe Borough does all the things that they want to see someone do it. He is all the things that most quarterback most. NFL teams want their quarterbacks to be there. There are a lot of other reasons. Like this Shawn Watson was not incredibly accurate. He even made mis reason coverage. Isn't that big game when he played well. When you watch that you see you're like hey maybe not? But you see Joe. Burbank quarterback throws quarterback hyder talk. Here's one here's one difference between him and Mitchell trubisky. It wasn't a one year you wonder we got to see him the year before and you will wondering if he could play football that think Mike Tannenbaum said himself he needs to answer the question. Why weren't you better your junior? Oh you let me answer. The question with a question rutledge who is universally considered by almost everyone to be the best player in this year's draft. Casey Chase Young. And if there Ariza scenario that the bengals chase who's the pass rusher extraordinary out of Ohio state which also by the way is awfully close to Cincinnati if there is a scenario where the bengals can and get themselves chase young and one of the big quarterbacks whether they decide they wanNA roll the dice end to Odongo Bilo or if they should talk themselves into Justin Harburg then in my opinion it makes all the percents in the world. It depends on how far you think the separation is being Joe Perot and to a tongue because if it wasn't hurt I think half the teams in the NFL might consider taking him ahead of borough. Now that's super logical and I think if you want to build a team championship team you're probably better off trying to get more players rather than less but the problem is you cannot pass on on Jonesboro and have him be even mediocre somewhere else. You happen you'll get fired for that because everyone in this league is looking for quarterbacks I understand the logic behind it like Charlie Castellini POPs up in my mind. Well he decided to Mario Williams over Reggie Bush. That was the right decision but ultimately led him getting fired because it seemed like the obvious choice. And then Reggie did you went on. It was okay elsewhere. This is what happens if he goes on. And you pass on a franchise quarterback I don't care what other players you get. The fans. Attornal you the media turn on you and then your job is going. The the other quarterback that is in the mix here is just in Herbert who the bengals have been interested in before and you just wonder if they talk themselves into him potentially with a package deal with chase young either their way. I don't know how I feel about Joe Borough. I believe that it's possible and I believe that this is a. I believe that it's possible. That pass on Joe Borough and go in a different direction. Vacate chase him and one of these other quarterbacks When you start to watch the film when they start to break things down you can talk yourself into who any scenario you want to? They won't do it. Well listen a quarterback what number one last year and Nick Bosa. What number two one of them's playing in the super bowl this week? And it's the guy that can roger hasn't been one year merely say if they can get chased young and a quarterback than it makes all I understand but pulling that out greeted. That's that's let's get this show. That's what I did baseball hall of Fame Derek. jeter yesterday came one vote shy of joining his former teammate. Mariano Rivera as the only unanimous hall of fame selections. But he's the captain got ninety nine point seven five percent of the votes highest ever for position player. Of course he's in the hall of fame. And so is Larry Walker congratulations to him. He's the only other player to get voted in this year. It was his final year. On the ballot he becomes the first rockies player ever to make the hall of fame and so people wonder how `Bout Barry Bonds and Roger Clements each of them got over sixty percent of the votes and their eighth year on the ballot. Some were expecting a big jump for the duo however they only the increased by about eight percent and a half and so people want to know what's going to become of those guys in here is one of our favorite voters. Tim Kirch in is whether you vote for both bonds and inclement we see where they are both sitting. I WanNa ask you in light of all of the conversation about cheating in the sport of baseball right now with the Astros. Do you believe that will ultimately taste change the dynamic for bonds or clement to make it in one way or the other. I don't think so greedy. I don't see a strong connection between signs dealing scandal and the steroids scandal I don't see bonds in climates getting a huge spike. Now because everyone is looking at saying well those this guys were cheating over there. There's a strong faction voters for the hall of fame who say if you have a connection to. PD's you're not getting in and no matter. What and they've held pretty firm on that even though bonds and clemens gone from thirty six percent to sixty percent in eight years but to get at the final fifteen percent? It's been done before but now with guys. who have this kind of baggage with voters? So I don't think there's a strong connection but we'll find out next year because it's not a good year for first time hall of Famers next year quickly. I have to follow up here. I'm sorry guys but but it just occurred it to me so a guy like Carlos Beltran mixed up in this cheating scandal that is directly cheating. which in theory so our steroids? If you're going to keep on clemens out of the hall of fame does a guy like Carlos Beltran. Rhonda's guy like altoona eventually. Do they wind up suffering that same fate. Absolutely I mean it's it's a different scandal but it's the same idea if if say Carlos Beltran is a borderline hall of Famer which I think is the voters are going to look at him at that time and say all right this is not steroids is but it's cheating in some form I'm GonNa hold that against him and keep him out. That's how I think they are going to look at similar yet different artillery. Sit with me a minute I want to come back to you but I wanNA bring Graziano into this because many of you may not know because you associated with football with us. You covered baseball for years. You are a baseball hall of fame voter and you do not vote for bonds or clements is right understanding. Does the Astros thing in any way. Impact your thinking on bonds and Clem. Yes no I don't think it changes it at all if I'm still voting and it's been a while since I covered so I've still voting outing on guys I covered but that won't always be true. If I were still voting at the time the likes of you know Beltran in Altoona and those guys came up. I'd have to assess that separately but no it does not make me think just goes. There's there's a whole bunch of cheating going on it's okay. The cheating these guys did and I'm over that I've I've held firm on that is Tim said and I don't see any reason. I wondered for for a long time. When bonds and clemens get to their final year as Walker did which means two years from now? I'm guessing that some people will say okay. We made them wait it out as long as we could could but we will ultimately put them in. How will you vote in their tenth year? I would think I'm still a no if I still have the vote at that point but yeah I think the key thing to understand is there's not some meeting where everybody decides how we're all GonNa vote to block. Everybody makes their own individual decision and sometimes those do change year to year. But for me I don't see anything changing in my mind between now in two years from now when I'd have to make that that's fair. Now I WANNA get Timmy back in because as we follow this astros cheating story the past couple of weeks. Yesterday we heard from the owner of the team Jim Crane. He was named executive of the year at the Houston sports awards last night and he had this to say get down to spring training wall. Get them together and they'll they'll come now with a strong team and I apologize for what happened in court. Sit and talk about it. Never GonNa come out and suppress all. I'm either as a group or intimate healing. We'll have some were quite frankly will Johnson what happened and ask for forgiveness move forward. You're that was very interesting to me. Tim Kirch in because buster was on yesterday. Talking about how a lot of people are on baseball. Were put off surprised. By how defiant the few comments we've heard heard from the astros players thus far have been. What do you make of what Jim Crane said there? Well I heard the same thing that buster people told me in the game that this was the the arrogance of the Astros on display again. Jim Crane is upset and he should be. He's embarrassed and he should be. He was very assertive very redirect in very blunt in firing his manager and his general manager. And he's not GonNa let the Astros players get away with just reading from a statement as Alex Bregman did is GonNa have to be more contrition shown here and they're gonNA have to do it right off the top and spring training and explained a few things otherwise this this is GonNa be a story that lingers the entire season I tell me well done thank you so much as always for your perspective. And we'll see you soon. Meanwhile we'll take a short break here coming up. What what does the Astros signs dealing with? Patrick mahomes well nothing. Unless you're following. Ryan Clark's twitter feed. He will explain his tweets coming up and then Zion's debut. It's just hours away. And he's making a big change to try to avoid another injury. What is it will it make a difference? Answer those questions and more it's got up on. ESPN FBI time for Ryan Clark to explain his tweets getting a gym while. I just got buffalo buffalo chicken debate over Baker Brook Law Law and everyone laughs at the way. I read your tweet a- and it's back here we go everybody's favorite with all of his twitter. I will read it and we'll we'll see what happens here. We go is the first one today proves it. You gotta be on your astro stuff to touch mahomes. You need two bregman cameras buzzers garbage can drums and all. Aw you ain't touching the ball of Patrick Mahomes don't want you to know needed to spend suspend nobody don't matter. RC explained that you need all cheap stuff. The Astros doing exactly what you were talking about you need. You need to run into home plate covering up his Jersey so they don't turn it up patching the homes was unconscious. And they're you're going to have to cheat you know what the Patriots might be at home because they can't cheat anymore. The Astros wouldn't even be able to hit this book because you need cameras. You need people beating. No things like you would Africa because the way way way because Patrick Mahomes is absolutely out of his mind and there's no way to stop them especially if you're playing by the rules okay. Next one here we go. Do you believe in Aaron the way you believed in Patrick the last two weeks now this is. This is pretty explanatory to me. Every Rogers he's supposed to be the guy he's supposed to be the baddest man that is ever live. He got down to the San Francisco. Forty niners there. Were two weeks in a row. Patrick Mahomes is down by twenty four. He's down seventeen. Eighteen seventy and everybody in the world knew that he was going to come back but right now the San Francisco Forty niners. We're looking at Aaron Rodgers. Saying is this your king is this. Your king was killed longer all over the place. He's dropping the ball and not even jumping on things. We have killed Cam Newton for every Rogers there. He got bombed on and he did nothing about about it. He's not Patrick Mahomes. Those days are over next tweet looking at the replay. He's saw Sorensen before the head. So why I'm the heck. Didn't he attempt to make a move. I mean fake Pichit. Jump cuts slide blink. Do something are so right. Tannehill play wide receiver. A Game College. That means he's actually athletic. So tell me why the hell the heat I make a move trying to get out of the way. The only thing he did it was opened his mouth a little trying to blow his breath on input to get him out the way he ran the whole way. uh-huh like he was scared the entire time. This is how I feel. Mosquito must be in Louisiana as he's flying toward those I rant on a motorcycle could've got out the way better than he has to do. Better okay that's a great one What Moy Oy? This is a bludgeoning mauling a dismantling days like this. Make both teams lift after the game. Forty niners because you feel swale packers because you don't want your kids to disrespect you when you get home. What time well listen? This is what it is right. So if you the San Francisco Forty niners if I'm George Kid who and I'm after the game with that Jimmy Ligi shirt on with him in his underwear and all that saying boy. Let's go hit these weights. We push these boys around all night. And now if I'm on the defense first off if you hear ear the DB's names all day and they only through the ball eight times. That means they are running through you but if you if you Green Bay packer what you gotTa do is you gotTa hit the way when you go home and when you walk in you WANNA walk. which leads like this because wife going to be talking to your bag you kids going to be talking to you? They won't be like Oh Daddy. You wasn't doing that he moster. And you're not gonNA treat me like that when I get back to my house and providing for you look round of applause. Let's please that was a virtuoso performance by Ryan Clark today sportscenter six eastern after PTI. Sage and Keith. We'll have a live report from New Orleans ones before Zion's debut has mahomes mindset approaching the Super Bowl and the latest on the fallout from the College Basketball Brawl sports tonight six eastern on ESPN and the ESPN creon APP. Let's get to that debut of Diane long-awaited tonight in New Orleans against the Spurs. He had surgery on October. Twenty first repair the Meniscus in his right me and he spoke Tuesday about Recovery Process House and I just want to punch or kick chairs Frustrating Australian move your body the way you want to make any athletic movements. I mean it's tough. I've been working on my landing a lot. Not landing straight legs. Lend my Momma forces. This is going to my legs on slide Satan stuff. I really couldn't explain it to you to be honest honestly. I don't know guess. Leave him. I'll be so excited thinking about my I again. All Right so Zion. Talking about ways that he's going to change his landing. What's going to happen? Listen we're going to get to you in a second but I want to go to I. Rj because you can relate to this and what it's like to have that impact on your body when landing from dunking well and this is the thing one of the people say well. How's he going to change? It's it's more simple things like hanging on the rim a little bit longer right low are slowing down your force coming down when he talks about landing straight leg. I had a situation eighteen where you see here on the slop watch. I can't I could hang on the rim. I could hang on the rim there but instead I come down with all of my force you see this on my leg and it straight up. I'm sorry frank but I'm saying that my leg was literally throbbing days after that and I'm six seven two hundred and thirty five pounds. If you talk about two hundred in ninety pounds coming down on your one leg. That was a simple thing where I could have just held onto the rim hold onto it and keep it going. That can slow down the amount of wear tear. He has on his knees. I think. That's that's my point. Exactly that's why you just have to pray and hope that everything's GonNa be okay for him because realistically when you're saying that reasonably it sounds great but when you're in the middle middle of a game and your adrenaline hype is so much you're kind of kept somebody. You're not automatically thinking here I go for. Don't worry about my landing worried about trying to bank it or finish it. And that's where the increase of risk to another injury is potentially there for Zion so look look factors into a lot of things players play and I hope for Zion that he has fifteen year career. But it's going to take some luck for that to happen. It'd be tax him the way I would add to this conversation that yes in the highlights all receives the dunking because the dunking is spectacular. But he uses that kind of explosive force on his knees all the time. That's what makes him so special and unique and you can't reteach person to move at the age of nineteen twenty. I think that's realistic. Green not in two or three months and here the six fast pace in the league like enzyme doesn't need to be effective but he gets you rebounds and gives you points in transition addition that got one of me is going to be at the highest and I agree with you and Greenie to your point. You saying you can't change but if you can decrease it by twenty percent it's so when you're on the transition we understand the three sixties. We understand that you saw heated at three sixty dunk and asked he's landing. He's straight up and down ready to scream and yell. All of those things are fine and Dandy But ultimately you have to use some intelligence right like if you're a baseball player in your arm is here versus your arm is there. That's the difference between Tommy John. You have to learn some of these skill to decrease the stress on your body interprofessional. So obviously they're going to manage to make sure that his minutes or not too much for him and all of that but as a coaching staff. And maybe if you're trying to make a run for the playoffs here which the Pelicans how do you try and balance. Yeah so how do you balance that. It's like a pitch count. I think Zion has momentum uh-huh players a lot of people. Forget about that. Just the momentum that he brings to the table drew holidays back. He's playing at a great level Lonzo. Ball's made a vassal of his career. Brandon Ingram is an all star level. Right now also if you get the Energy of Zion that will give them a chance. Why were you shaking your head? I'm shaking my head because this is not the individual that you want to push to try and make the postseason if he's GonNa got to play you fifteen minutes twenty minutes night. Just allow his body to acclimate to the rigors of the NBA. That's fine but I'm not pushing him one more minute to try and make the postseason. He's all you need. Rj Your weight. Not only need. You might only need twenty minutes from everybody else's planet they can sustain that for them to make a legitimate player front. Yeah you might. I'm going to say no. I think that spots go to somebody else other than them. So there's no need to even push it that's the point is but these are just terrible considerations to be having about all right I mean it is. It is really unfortunate that we're trying to this. Young Man is trying to relearn. How sort of athletically does everything that he does? This is not a good screening. I agree and all things being said knowing everything that they know with John Moran you still taking him number one night. We finally get to see it right here here on. ESPN Diane making his long awaited debut for those Pelicans. But I still see Ben Simmons and the seventy sixers visit rafters at seven eastern followed at nine thirty eastern Pelicans hosting Spurs Book Games on ESPN and the ESPN APP. Coming up on. Get up one of the ugliest bras we have seen in in years. What should the punishment be? We'll discuss this more when we return.

Patrick Mahomes Astros football ESPN San Francisco Kansas NFL baseball cowboys basketball clemens Ryan Clark bengals Bruce Weber Aaron Rodgers Richard Jefferson NBA Joe Borough Jimmy Jimmy Garoppolo
 K-State/Kansas fight that will surely lead to significant suspensions and fallout  Emergency Podcast (1.21)

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

21:32 min | 1 year ago

K-State/Kansas fight that will surely lead to significant suspensions and fallout Emergency Podcast (1.21)

"On Tuesday night college basketball had its most notorious moment in fighting since two thousand eleven when Cincinnati and Xavier had a brawl during the crosstown. Shootout staffer emergency podcasts. Let's do it. Welcome back into the eye on college basketball podcast. This is an emergency episode being taped late. Tuesday night I'm your host Matt norlander. GP Gary Are- is in the studio for CBS. Sports Network. Data triple headed on Tuesday night and then they've got inside college basketball after that. He's not getting back to his room to close to two. Am Eastern time. I'm going to try and get to bed before that and then we'll wake up early. You will have another usual as scheduled Wednesday episode waiting for you in the feed later later on. But let's get to the big news on Tuesday. And that was the ugly scene there in Allen Fieldhouse as many of you listening have obviously seen in in fact. I guess if you're listening to an emergency podcast you have every single person listening to this. At least seen the highlight once. But you have Silvio Desouza. Kansas bringing the pulp the floor and just time is about to expire. It's garbage times garbage. Time and Doin Gordon goes for a steel tries to get a layup. Dissociate gets back. He swats the ball. He Towers over Gordon. who was on his back at that point and then you have Cartier Jarrah of Kansas state coming over getting physical and then things get completely out of hand and the situation in flames in an instant? Where you have disowned Kansas state players off the bench Kansas players fleeing from the other side of the floor and the fight and yes. This was a fight multiple punches thrown spills bills over into the stands and we are fortunate that no one so far as we know as recording this podcast in the eleven o'clock eastern hour here on Tuesday night was injured. That was there watching the game but obviously a bad look for college basketball And I'm already annoyed by the takes about the outrage police. The people that have immense outrage are just as bad as those who wanna get on their high horse and say that this is just nothing we can move on with our lives. No there was a hideous look for college basketball. You can't have players spilling billing into the stands exchanging blows on both sides. desouza picks up a stool. It's not perfectly clear whether it Kansas Assistant Jaren soured or anyone else was able to get the stool out of his hand or if he dropped it of his own volition but obviously desouza most notably and notoriously is going to get hit hit with a significant suspension. Will wait to see. If that is decided on Wednesday the next steps will take from here. Is Kansas State and Kansas will decide which players are going to get suspended and for how long the big twelve also going to review this video both of the officiating level and obviously at the League office level and we wait to see who will get suspended and for how long the suspension will be the most similar recent incident that you would compare this to would not be the Grayson Allen stuff for as much for all the headlines and the melodrama that came with the Grayson Allen experience at Duke it was always and by the way those things of course were fifty times larger fifty thousand times larger than this us. But it was always usually Grayson Allen in one of the guy this is a full fledged brawl and Marcus Smart. At Oklahoma state. He received three games for going after fan in the stands after the Fan said a racial slur to him. That was a one player incident last team on team thing like this You had a bad situation in the whack a few years back between Utah Valley and New Mexico Toco state. I would argue. That was really one of the worst ones ever now. Because it's a whack game and that was in twenty fourteen It's some it's gotten lost to the ages there because it's not big schools. That was bad one and then the one that everyone's talking about obviously this compares to is the crosstown shootout the ZIP up game same. Cincinnati and Xavier that caused that rivalry to be taken off of home court venues in onto a neutral site for a couple of years but for comparison sake as we wait to learn on Wednesday Thursday who will be suspended for. How long win? The suspensions came down with the crosstown shootout. You had. Six Games was handed out to Octavius. LLC Gates Does Wells and Landen Amos Xavier got four games mark. Lyons at two to Holloway. Had One Couple of other sensitive players. Also receive suspensions. So we'll wait and see Takes before the suspensions come down then they will come down and then people will say this is is enough this is not enough etcetera etcetera. This is you know a terrible look for college basketball. A A weird night by the way in college basketball just in that Walter McCarty was officially fired at Evansville. And then that's just completely toddler gliders hired in his place so that was the first thing and then Illinois wins at purdue and continues it's terrific season but Illinois had a player who came off the bench Alan Griffin who went Christian Leitner in that game was collected and then the Kansas can't state stuff just storms in you know in just overtakes everything there so from what we saw you know. What do you say but obviously college basketball doesn't need? This remotely is a fight in college basketball game the worst thing in the world. Of course it's not the worst thing in the world but you can't condone this. You can't say this is good for the sport you don't want any kind of physical altercation that is just carrying over into the stands. Like this I do think there's a big difference between fisticuffs between two dudes or four dudes and it's in the paint on the court and when you actually get into where you know students or other people are sitting her bill self say afterward that this was actually going going on near where some of the disability seeing was so we are fortunate again as far as we know as a recording of this podcast that no one was seriously hurt or injured. Obviously the players players afterward did not speak to the media. That's the that's the right call. I do have some quotes from both coaches and what they said to the media afterward Bill Self said quote. There was a role that was played by our players. I gotTa Watch the tape and see all angles. But I know we were in the wrong. I'm not saying both parties weren't in the wrong but I know we were in the wrong end quote another one he says I was shaking hands with Bruce Meeting Bruce Weber. I didn't even know it was a male until three or four seconds after everybody was out there that was an embarrassment on our part for the role that we played in end quote another one. My initial thoughts are that without knowing everything that went down it was obvious we played a role in what transpired and there will be penalties for them. And then the fourth bill quote was it happened in the handicapped seating. If you're GONNA do something at least take it on the court. It's ridiculous that they would go into the stands. I haven't heard if anybody injured. But you're asking the wrong person. Now as for Bruce Weber he said he did not see most of it because of the handshake with self and so you just whereas the video showing the the the assistance bill self in the thick of it that was not the case as with Weber. Even though the Kansas State bench was closer that side. That's because whoever was walking in the opposite direction whereas bill was walking toward Weber toward the Kansas state side. Here's what ever said. I have no idea I didn't see anything. I'm disappointed at ended that way credit to them that kicked our butt in so many ways and quote. I he's obviously not being facetious. facetious there he's talking about the game. Play another weber quote. I was going to shake hands. It's probably my fault. I had told them not to press. I had told them not to fell the kids. A young guys. They WANNA play hard. They were disappointed frustrated. But you've got to handle it right and that's pretty much all. He said in regard to the incident overall. Now one thing and maybe this'll be something that's surfaces when we get to Wednesday in the morning and the afternoon but one thing I found interesting in the aftermath of all of. This is what I haven't seen mentioned and I'm not saying that this would have happened if the prior incident hadn't happened but we we do have another situation at Kansas this season. That could have prompted something like this. Do you remember her early. In the season in November we talked about it on the PODCAST monness. George Pappas gets the garbage time steele gets the donkeys. He's showing off and it becomes like a funny thing and say it's classless and all that but it became like it became a thing he became a AH something of a of a college basketball mythical mid major hero but because of that like does that have any sort of carryover three over effect to Kansas State. All these weeks to months removed saying. Oh we're just GONNA play to the end. Those guys did it. We're GONNA do it. Do on Gordon goes for the steel deal. It leads to this and on some level is Silvio Dassault's Saint This ain't happening again. We already had one team. Try and do this to us to the end of garbage time. This will not happen again. I don't think it's a non factor entirely there but for an Selvey said after he's got to be way more mature than that couldn't believe in fact I was watching up in my office. I rewound I could not believe that I saw a basketball player. Pick up a stool and now thank goodness. It didn't get worse than that because if it did and you have a player forcibly bringing contact any anybody else with a stool stool then. That's instantly one of the most infamous highlights in the sports history. I mean It's not quite on the level of you know Rudy t getting punched in the seventies unease in the NBA but if the damage is bad enough yet it could be now. We were fortunate not to have that in some amazing images. I posted some of them to my twitter with her feet and you can see them obviously in a number of stories that have been published but for the photographers who are set up in that platoon if you will on the court. They're right there so so this all breaks out and some of the images are actually fairly. Surreal you get these powerful shots of fans young and old right there are in the thick of it as this is all unfolding in in guys are shoving and punching just an aggressive rough rough seen now where we gonNA go here with. Suspensions Gamed College Game Day is going Kansas this weekend for the Tennessee Kansas game. Oh by the way So so there. There are many ways that this will actually spread out and have an effect on Kansas more than Kansas City. Kansas State is not a good team this season. You know you could have a situation where it's a suspension other place there were there. were players in street clothes. How do you even go about disciplining them but for K.? State not a good look whatsoever. I mean both both both schools and their respective players are at fault here I understand the instinct to jump off the bench and get involved this. This this very thing is why the NBA. All of those years ago said you leave the bench year done technical immediately. And that's what happened happened here with you know once it had to the video sort it out and that was another thing because because the AA instituted a new new rule this season that is directly tied to gambling and point spreads if you have an end game scenario that calls for any kind of technical foul were free throws need to be taken. It doesn't matter if the guys have gotten on the bus you have to finish the game technically Because because he incidentally is recognized that with gambling legalized per federal enactment in federal law. That is why that happened happened and I get you know Kansas fans booing. Everyone saying why do we need to do is. That's why they did it You know it comes obviously a brutal moment for college basketball but that's really. Why did that so anyway? I am digressing a bit here. I do miss my buddy. GP We will pod obviously again on this on Wednesday but want to give you something some some sort of reaction here in the aftermath of this for Kansas State. Eight and ten team won five in the League. It's not going to the instable tournament down year. forgettable year is what it it is for Kansas Though fifteen three squad. Five and one in the league. It's been rating this week as the best team in college basketball per Ken Palm Tour Vic domestic composite said most predictive metrics actually have Ku as the number one team in the sport But how would that change going forward depending on who gets suspended and for for how long now you'll notice as I've been talking to this podcast names. I haven't been saying Devante Dotson. Yoke as Buki. Those are the two most important players players and they were not at the center of this. Now there are a bunch of players involved but we wait and see how many Kansas players get suspended for how long and then going forward depending on the length of the suspension and now Kansas performs how that actually might affect where they stand in the overall hierarchy of the instantly tournament in Selection Committee. And how how things get sorted out from there. I would expect bill self to be fairly aggressive in his discipline here. one because the school whether it wants to work quietly behind the scenes that big twelve or not it like this becomes the biggest story. Sorry in American sports on Tuesday night because of the nature of it and so everyone will wait for the discipline. That comes down there after and I would think that Kansas is going to you. Really try and be strong with punishment here Because it was too sosa throwing punches he was not the only one I did. See One video you late Tuesday night with the vantage point of the Kansas student section. So this would've been about thirty feet back from the basket stanchion when the fight begins to break out in that from that perspective you see two Sosa Kinda seal. The bit as the Kansas state players aggressively attacked him after he you know showed up the opponents by standing over him and from there. Yeah he goes fight or flight and he fights and he looks to defend himself and then things get really out of out of hand A. and within a matter of like a second and a half from that but you know even since the highlight showed you know alternate angles from social media from fans understands actually provide an even uglier view of of the fight of the Donnybrook as it as it went as it got going to Soza. What a bizarre path here because remember it was last season because to SOS it was at he was one of the? You know one of the characters if you will that was brought in to the federal trial because it was his guardian. That was trying to get him to go to Maryland and get under armor to to pay for that arrangement. And then you know according to federal wiretaps it's the it's The Guardian and and The A ah you know turn it Curtis towns on the staff saying you gotta get him out from underneath that you gotta pay him to get him to Kansas. And then Soza gets a two year suspension attention from the instable a now he. He wins on appeal. He did not play at all last season but he's never really become the player they hoped he would be and now here he finds himself itself. You know in the middle of just just a bad look fight and it wouldn't stunned me if he was sat for the rest of the season by Kansas. I don't know if they'll go that far but it wouldn't. It wouldn't shock me and the other thing is this whole deal happens because because it makes the PL- like he's in every you know A. K.. State has every right if they want to steal balls to the ball. You still playing like whatever you know. And then dissociate makes a he makes offensive play. He gets the play. But then you gotTa stop you gotTa step over you gotTa you know just Lord above the guy when the game has done your Kansas. The program just walked on K.. State again in your house when you stand over a dude like that. That's when things immediately get Harry very easy medium you know. It's it's y when when guys do that if official catches it and it's it's with intent and it's for a half second second. It's an automatic T in football. It's an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct. There you can't have that level of taunting. I will say though that a part of me is surprise and you know appreciative and relieved if you will that we don't get this more often. You know you see sports. It's fights break out here and there you know and you'll hear people discuss like well. Why is it you know? It's it's cheered in baseball. It's part of hockey not even in football to a certain degree you know. Physical violence hand to hand. Combat is built into the fabric of the game you know. Why is it? So different with basketball One I think one of the biggest reasons. Why is you actually have fans within in feet of the players and whereas that's not the case in football hockey you're behind glass baseball? You're way off. Basketball is the only one of the four major American sports. Where if you have a fight? Like this breakout innocent bystanders. Legitimately getting hurt and I think that's one of the bigger reasons wise Sometimes people have an issue she with it but I am surprised that we don't get this more often. The heat competition at the pro or the college level. It's it's a good thing that we don't but obviously we have had to you know relatively high profile incidents you know as of late with this and then of course you had add the really scary incident with myles Garrett in Mason Rudolph in the NFL month and a half ago or so. But that's you you know as as we turn toward Wednesday morning here most of you. Obviously we'll be listening to this Wednesday morning or Wednesday afternoon. We'll find out more about punishments and where Kansas this can go from here. How strong the big twelve? Obstacle down on K.. You with all of this. Hopefully it's the last fight we see in college basketball goofball this season you know sometimes things like this. They're bad but they can serve as like kind of like you know a megaphone reminder to the the rest of the sport the coaches you know. Don't be like them. Don't be like Kansas. Don't be like case day. That's not what we're about fights will inevitably spring up again. Yeah you know just just the human nature of competition. I get all of that but How about college basketball? You know the talking point in the sport To win almost fatiguing degree has been. You know the tumult at the top of the polls and nobody's good. Everyone's stinks Yada Yada Yada. We'll talk about this over and over over and over hollow how little Brouhaha to spice things up there. I think I saw dude and one of those videos in a suit come flying across at the start of this. Don't I don't know who that was. The Kansas Jayhawks covering its eyes on the opposite end of of everything weird scene just bizarre seen some of the photos. Coming out of this are Frankly kind of incredible. But that's about it here so personnel will talk more on Wednesday. We'll get to other stuff in addition to the Kansas headline because by the time we record hopefully we learn more Plenty of other things to talk about in college hoops. The court report on Wednesday. We'll have a bit on in Illinois toxin fighting a line. I off to their best start in league play in fourteen years So plenty of other interesting stuff but Kansas becomes the fact a story for this new cycle of the next day or so and we see we wouldn't see who will be available and unavailable play for the game against Tennessee. Appreciate she listening. Hope you enjoyed these emergency podcasts. If you have not already do be sure to subscribe in Apple podcasts or whatever service you prefer for you can get this podcast. Essentially on every single service that has subscription so for that we thank you so much appreciate it and we'll talk to you again Wednesday late morning early afternoon.

Kansas basketball Kansas State Bill Self Gordon. Landen Amos Xavier Cincinnati Kansas Jayhawks Allen Fieldhouse Illinois Tennessee Kansas game Silvio Desouza Kansas City Bruce Weber Matt norlander CBS Oklahoma football League Grayson Allen
Mind Your Own Business Podcast with Peter Hurley | Photofocus Podcast May 10, 2019

Photofocus Podcast

35:29 min | 1 year ago

Mind Your Own Business Podcast with Peter Hurley | Photofocus Podcast May 10, 2019

"You're listening to the mind your own business podcast aimed at helping photographers. Learn how to make the leap from amateur to pro. Hello and welcome to the mind. Your own business podcast joint effort. Brought to you by photo focus and skip Cohen university. This Shamir young, and I am joined by my co host and king of creativity. Skip cohen. King of creativity. I'll take it. That's getting well it some days. It is. When it doesn't flow. It's not fitting all. The Midas touch where everything was creative turned the gold. And then there's the Kaka touch where everything just seemed to work and turns to caucus. Everybody's best. They're the key thing to remember that. It's just a bad day, not a bad life. Exac supplies. We all get it out of perspective. So we've got a great show today. I'm excited about this. I'm excited. Absolutely. About today's guests. Did you wanna do the honors? Introducing all I'm so glad you asked. Hey, we've got Peter Hurley there's going to join us today, and he is no stranger to mind your own business or to most of you our listeners now he's best known as New York's premier headshot Taga for. But I don't think there's anything he can't photograph, and he's also one of the most respected educators and professional photography today. And it's kind of fun because he and I both just got back from shudder fest in Saint Louis, and one of the things that's a great place to start and talk about today is we're going to spend a little time talking about some of the trends that he saw in terms of where photographers are struggling and need the most help especially when you start going into the world of head shots. So Peter, welcome to mind your own business on my gosh. Thanks for having me guys. Them so site to be back. Oh, you're so pumped a heavy here on the show. Let me tell you. And you know, Peter just really quickly in case anyone is living under Iraq. And haven't you know, if they haven't heard of you, which I can't imagine how they have not. But for those who've not could you give us just a really quick super brief overview of your background. Sure, I was I was training for the Olympics in sailing. I ended up not making the US team but polo wanted real sailors in nad campaign, so I- modeled for polo in the Tiber on the shoot was Bruce Weber, and we became friends, and then I came to New York City and started modeling and Bruce over the years just kept saying why don't you pick up a camera? Why don't you pick up a camera? Why don't you pick up a camera? So I finally listened to him. And then I pointed the I was shooting models that were my friends at the agency. And one of them said, hey, I need a headshot. I said I think I could do that move closer to me and look in the camera. And I realized how hard it was. And I was like, wow, this is a different ballgame. And I and I just went down the headshot path to try and make a buck and get myself out of a bar and here we are nineteen years later. I love it is the bar still there in the bar is not. They lost. They lost all your business. Is that what you tried to say? I mean, there is a club. They're still it was the biggest club in New York City. I was I was working out till like four in the morning. I just got sick of it. I seriously picked up a camera not thinking that I was gonna fall in love with it just thinking, I just don't want to be in this bar. I wanna make money with something else. And then my whole life shifted. It. It's interesting because I've worked with Kristen Johnson who came out of the soap opera world and was a model, and she's a let's see I'm trying member. She was a Ford model, and she's she does some beautiful work. She was she's been involved with Panasonic for longtime. But I remember Kristen talking about she spent so much time in front of the camera that it kinda gave her an advantage as a photographer to be on the other side of the camera and to help her subjects feel Mortiz be more comfortable in front of the camera because she'd been there and she knew how hard it was. And it's kind of interesting because you've got that same perspective being in front of the camera for for that whole stretch of time. And I love the fact that Bruce Weber kept beating on you to put a camera in your hands. And here we are two. Yeah. Here aren't you know, what I I just to follow up on that? I teach this workshop. Called the hedge on tens of and the most powerful portion of the workshop at everybody that comes to the workshop gets a headshot done by me. So I coach them for two days straight. And then on the second day like one and a half day stays straight and on the second day in the afternoon. I put them in front of my camera, and I photographed them using all the techniques that I just taught them so they get it from both sides. And they say a most of them say it's the most powerful experience that they had which is really cool while the and for them to be able to go out and immediately start to practice. The techniques definitely helps create better headshots in this world. You know, real quick for our listeners who want to check out the previous time that Peter was on mind your own business, and he really Peter. I'm sure you remember you shared some of your coolest tips for interacting with clients during a photo session to get natural expressions, which I thought was really really neat. Listeners can check out go back to April fourteenth twenty seventeen of mind your own business and make sure and listen to that interview because there are some serious serious golden nuggets in there, including the the Hurley, 'isms grit stuff so Peter standing Mets for sure. We just we just hanging out with I don't know twenty seven twenty eight hundred photographers in Saint Louis. You were you were busy in the booth. You were busy in your classes. What are some of? What are some of the trends let let's let's knock off the negative. I or or the things that people seem to be struggling with most or misconceptions. What are some of the things that seem to come up there? An awful lot of beginners there. And that's always a challenge. I think the the thing that I saw the most that I thought was the biggest thing or the questions that I got the most was really gear based a lot of people just don't know like they're if they're starting out. They don't know what gear to get. They don't know, you know, what lighting setup to get. Maybe you know, I I developed a lighting kit through called the synod flex kit from you know, west, but it's expensive, you know, to get star. People are looking at like, I don't okay if I don't get that. What do I get? And then I'm always like, well, I need to have I need people to have a consistent sat up so that they can create their look around it. And it needs to be decent light. I think people really should start with what they have they if they're not making money and they're doing it as a hobby, but if you're making money investing in some gear and figuring out your kids important, and I think people being confused on that as a real problem because you've got to work best with what you've got. And you've got to have a clear vision for what you want. I remember when I started I was basing my purchases off of things that I wanted also things that people were using when I was modeling. So the first light setup got was a portable battery kit from Luma dine in the reason why I got it when I was doing a model test shoot in Italy. I was being shot by this guy. Maurizio Montana's amazing, and we shot out on a tennis court with these strobes and they were little tiny. Throws with batteries. And I was like what are those? And I didn't have a studio when I first started shooting. So I needed battery power. So I got these luminaries, and they were amazing. But now today we have so many different options for batteries. And and getting gear out of a studio if you don't have one I mean, I started shooting in my apartment, natural light. So it was told people look natural light free. Like don't freak out about the gear. But you gotta make a game plan for the gear and make sure you have what it is that you need as you go. And I think there there's a lot of vendors. There's a lot of gear. There's a lot of taggers photographers loved to talk about year. And I think it can get very confusing for people, right? It doesn't matter what you shooting with. But let's just go through. Let's just go through. What's what's in your bit your bag now, not the whole thing? But what's what's your favorite focal length for head shots? I'm at ninety two millimeters about so I shoot a twenty four to one oh five or seventy two two hundred four if I'm going prime on my there eighty five or one hundred millimeter macro, but those lands I like when I travel I take the twenty four to one zero five because I can get away with only taking one lens with me to do everything. I need I shoot Neo SR in ever since. I got it. I haven't put it down. I love the thing. And that's that's the base of my of my in terms of what I'm bringing around with me and hit hit the Senate flex kit for a minute. Yeah. That that is what's in the kit. It's three there's a by color kitten daylight kit. Inappropriate. So the by color kit and the daylight kit coming with three one by two panels. They come with dimmers that actually have the ability to battery power. So I've been running around with batteries on them, which I'm pre- not supposed to say because they're not out yet. That's like I'm testing them for west gut. But it it'll be out soon. I'm really excited about it. Because now, I just I just got off the plane last night, I flew from Chicago here, and I left my three panels built already put him in a checked bag and with my tripod at my entire kit fit in in in one tiny little check bag. It's not even an oversize bag, and I can go wherever I want in the world is great. I love it fantastic. And what's what's cool is as you're naming off? This gear you mentioned earlier, I'm just a second ago that that you have to make a plan with the year that we get in even as you. You list off with senior gear bag. It's clear that you have a plan. And I think I've encountered a lot of photographers who will get excessive gear just because and you know, I've even had moments of insecurity socking to one a photographer, and she showed me just even her camera body, and it was clearly thousands of dollars more expensive than mine. But then when you look at the work, it was clear that the skill level. Didn't yet match the camera all that to say, you know, using what you have in knowing how to use what you have is. So very important. So that when you upgrade, you know, you know, why you're upgrading in your work is that much more effective while I just think having a plan for it. Like, I call I think I'm a big goal center. So I I have this goal setting structure where you know, one of my goals was to be the best hedge d'arvor, New York, and that was house I going to get there. And I was like, okay. Well, we'll gear do I need. How do I do it? And then I think as you make money in photography. You should be. To make purchases and based on you know, what you make. When I first started out. I wanted a pro photo acute twenty four hundred are pack, and I was dying for it. And I didn't know what to do. I was like I gotta get this thing. I gotta get this thing in and I got this huge client that that. I was like immediately. I put all the income from one job in bought it. I think it was like three grand or thirty five hundred bucks or something and I got a thirty five hundred dollar job. And I like bought the thing and I was so site. So I think having these goes, I call him BF peas big purchases. Sorry. But you gotta have your BFE's. So I always have that even with my business. I patted myself on the back with becoming I was named best hitch Petar ver- New York for the first time in two thousand five and I and I had to be p of of getting myself of a Land Rover for or doing that. And I and I went out and got it and feel pretty good to be able to pay for that with with money from headshot. So if you're making money with Taga fy, you can spend your money on gear. To improve what it is that you're doing but don't be going out. You know, you're just throwing money in a money pet. If you're not getting a return, if you wanna go pro, well, there's another piece of this that I wanna hit onto and it's great first of all if you don't have the right gear Vincent authorize spoke at skip summer school years ago. And I remember him looking at everybody and saying all right? And for those of you that are screaming because you don't have the right lands. You know, what you do when you don't have a long enough lands, and everybody's quiet because you walk in closer, and he talked about when he started. He didn't have any of the right gear. But you go with what you have. And then the other story is job. You think who tells the story about spending a fortune on a tilt shift lens because he wanted to make some of his wedding work. Look, really different. And he used it. Once never used it again and wound up selling it at a law. So I wanna remind everybody out there if you're just starting out go. Out and rent some gear if you're looking for some things that are extravagant. You don't have the cash flow. Then the nice thing is about when you're reading it utilizing somebody else's assets without depleting yours. So it's a perfect combination. And I'm so glad you you know, you brought that up now. And you know, you start out by practicing with what you got because great gear doesn't make you a pro any more than than owning a whatever Lamborghini makes you a race car driver. I have a studio here New York, and I have the I run the headshot crew. So everybody's allowed to come in and rent my students, they get clients in here. They ran my soon they get my flex kits. You know, they get the it. They get whatever they want. Whatever gear. I have it's part of the deal. So I like people to come in. And try the kids. It's great for me. It's great for west kind. It's great for the Taga verse oats is just an awesome. Awesome thing. Yeah. And if you stuck in you've got a question. That's contact the cruet westcott you got great team there. So what are some of the other? When you just before we started. We were talking about how how some of the attendees just don't just don't get it. They're running around frantic. They're thinking they're going to build a portfolio, but they don't understand the process yet. What were some of the things you saw when it came to people's perception of of what they thought they needed to do for if they're interested in headshots. I think a lot of Tigers at least that, you know, run around at shutter feathers models everywhere, there's people shooting everywhere. And I like the the photographers that were getting creative in taking a model off and doing their own thing with them. But when you get ten people in a row shooting the same model at the same time. There's no creativity there in the in the in the time aren't directing the model. So the models just doing their five moves at the models do and everybody's getting the same shot. And I just think it's ridiculous because I think the final green and all portraiture is direction. I think once you direct. It's your shot you own it. But if you're not directing your snapping the shutter, you're not getting something that's that's worthwhile for me in. And it wouldn't certainly wouldn't be something that's going in my portfolio of other people took the same picture right next to me. You know, I some of the people that I really enjoyed watching the most every now and then I'd find in the back hallway one or two photographers with a model just working. Try and get what they wanted. And I and I love that. When you when you do these big groups, I also happen to hate it. When you see a photographer shooting over the instructors shoulder to build a portfolio because there's no way in hell they will ever be able to reproduce that shot. I remember Jerry Jones saying years ago that instead of taking photographs of what I'm shooting rather took photographs of me. So you remember how I was shooting and how I was working to get the shot. And like you said, then you wind up with everybody having the same thing in their portfolio. And there's nothing just because you've got a model there doesn't mean that you've done anything, particularly creative. But there sure was the spirit there you have to admit that great. Everybody is good time. It's my second year going Ida blast both years, the responsiveness formation was great. And you know, it's great to see people that are fired up, and they have a lot. Questions. You know, I was I was sitting in my Dan fielding questions like like crazy and trying to get a sense of where these people are out in their careers and stuff like that. And I applaud sow in getting you know, we're trying to keep this whole industry going in interest new people in to our love of photography as well. And he gets a lot of new people in there that are that are eager and curious and fired up to take some shebang and picture. So I'm happy to help. I'm curious for people that go to an event like this. How do they do you have any tips Peter for how they can maximize their time to get the most either educational wise or some great shots for the portfolio any tips or how they could just get the most out of that. So they don't go home with a bunch of images that all look the same. And maybe it was kinda like drinking from a fire hose where they can be hard to retain, you know, the information that you learn how do they get the most out of that experience? I think it's tough to go out and shoot. While there's amazing classes going on. I mean, really, I think if I'm you know, I went to my first class was at like eight it was it was like early in the more. No, it was it was like ten thirty in the morning or something like that my first one, and it was fair, it was really lightly attended. And I thought if I if I'm flying from New York to Saint Louis and somebody has a chance to sit in with me for an hour and a half that rather than go, you know, shoot models that they can do an hour later or something. I would definitely you know, I was I would definitely be in on that. Like, I'm a lifelong learner of this stuff. I love sitting in another teacher's and seeing what they have I learned from everybody. I wanna learn like one little thing that I can go out. I remember that can use that. So I think that they're such talent there. It's hard to not plop yourself down in front of them. So I would say just before you go make a really tight schedule of what you need. To get done and offense. They sleep. They shoot all our. So you can always should be shooting at night when the concepts aren't going on exactly I have one that's a reminder to people to get the most out of it. And that's make it a point to know your gear before you get to shutter fest. I heard a couple of horror stories affect there were least three or four of them one of from photographer who went off on a particular shoot and got absolutely nothing. Had a problem with her camera. Shudder fest. Once you actually get to any conference or workshop, that's not the time to pull the instruction book and try to remember what you're doing with your gear, but take a taken an evening and a few days before you get to the conference, especially if you bought something new, but you have to be able to come in, and and know your gear cold, so that, you know, all the bells and whistles and buttons. And you've got it all set up the way you want to when there's a problem, which it's sure as hell there will be make it a point to already know your gear. So you're not wasting time. Because that's one of the things I saw it's it really is an amazing thing. It's it's frantic. Everybody's turned loose at the same time. And you've got gear you've got the you've got gear you can use. You've got a trade show going on. You've got rent a human. So you can pick up you can pick up a model, then you've got the classes. And then everywhere you go their classes live hands on on the floor. And then they're also classes going on in classrooms all over the place. I can't get two feet in that place without being stopped and doing so fees and stuff, and I love it. I I just it's awesome. Like saying hi to everybody. So I'm up for it. You know, it's about how about suggestions on how photographers should practice. I know Roberto vows way those got a great line that practice doesn't make perfect. What if you're practicing at wrong? How good line? I thought it was good. What should people do when they so they leave shudder fest? How can they how can they practice and get? The most out of what they learned from you or for that matter any speaker there. My goal of photography boils down to the first law learning, which is repetition like you got locked down your system and just shoot the same stuff over and over. I've been eating the same thing since two thousand four basically, I mean, very little changes, you know, and I keep getting better. So I'm like what is going on? So it's really based on repetition. And obviously like what we're Birtles if you're repeating the wrong thing, that's not good. But if you're repeating the right thing, you're gonna get better and better and better and better and better, and it takes I've heard it takes ten thousand hours, a master something. And I've shot maybe thirty thousand people and I haven't mastered this headshot thing. So I think we've with photography. It's just a it's such a huge medium that you you. You just have to keep getting if especially portrait Donnie you have to keep getting people in front of your camera. You know, you have to keep doing and you have to keep practicing and you have to keep working with different personalities in order to get it. I mean, obviously, if you're landscape are. RV put your time in your effort in to finding these areas that look amazing in the right time of day, and the light and everything I mean, it's just so much involved. But you the more you do it the better you're gonna to get that's for sure. And you know, speaking of practice, so that includes your gear, but also your subject as well. And you know, Peter looking at your portfolio. I mean, one of the things that really stands out so much is how comfortably subjects are. And they all have natural expressions. There are no deer in the headlight faces that I can see. And it's I've heard it said before no matter how great your gear is if you don't know how to interact with people, then you're not gonna get a great image as far as portrait's. So for our listeners where wedding photographers family, photographers, high school senior portrait photographer. So since we're talking about practice. You have any tips for listeners who need to practice interacting with people. I think star with friends and family were. Feel a little bit more confident with the people and freebies. If they're free you have nothing to lose. Right. So you ideas off of them. I think my all the direction all the directory of skills. I have came as gifts in the form of gifts. And the gift is this your shooting. You get to that point every single photographer gets to where you don't know what to say and your mind goes blank, and you just you just sitting there. And then at that moment, there is a little voice side your head that will save you and give you something, and you just have to have no filter and just did it out to them. So I get I get these gifts. I call gifts all the time. Because that's how you change your style in year style changes you get better. And that's why I'm a better director today than I was five years ago or two years ago or one year ago, it's just a process, and if you're not involved with the process, it's not gonna it's not gonna help you. And you get rusty really quick. Like, I get rusty really pick like when I take a break. Sometimes I go off. And I go. Oh, you know sale for a month at a time or something and I'm not shooting when I get back in the studio. I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm so rusty. So you've got it constantly be performing at whatever it is that you want to do to get better, and you will use repetition to solidify your your craft and how you operate. But then you'll grow because of the repetition so it all evolved from there. And then when your mind gets quiet, you have to listen because that's when you'll get the greatest the greatest idea, some my my best ideas popped in my brain. And I was like oh my gosh. That's crazy out. If I learned how did that just happen? You know, very nice. I wanna I want to sort of go off topic for just a second talk about I know in April you were at a high school out in California talk about talk about the Fouzy as of a group of high school photography students on. I mean, this was probably a highlight. It's been a highlight of my year, so far that's for sure I got asked. I'm honored that Juliana is the teacher at the high school, and I met her at Photoshop world. And she said, look, I love your book. I love your lights. I have a budget. I wanna get your lights, and I wanna get your book for my students at this high school. So she bought like two hundred books she decided that that was going to be there portrait curriculums my book. She got the flex gift from west. And and she always wanted to have me out. She says you gotta come out and teach these kids. So we finally got together coincided with a trip. I was doing tha. California where I was doing a workshop in LA, and then I had a shoot for a CEO in San Francisco in Coalinga this little town between the two, and I went there and spent the day and NBC came in and did a little story about it. And it was so incredible. It was just I think the thing the thing that makes it incredible. Is that the the town itself that there's a lot of kids in what are called the dreamer program where their families have come across the border from Mexico, and their parents work in the fields and and calling a high school. A lot of the students are the the the kids that are in the dreamer program that came across illegal in the in the there anyway, they're in this program. So in the classes, they were all there. And I know, you know, it's I don't know. I I wanted inspire them. I just wanted them to understand like I feel so lucky that I picked up a camera. Like, I never thought that. You know, I can make a living off of a camera. Do what I what I've been feel very fortunate with what I've been able to do with the camera. But when I first started know that this was like a path. I was in a I did a did a shared lift on the way back from the airport yesterday. Just because it was like sixty bucks to go by myself, and it was twenty five bus to go shit was like shared. I never share one back from New York before I sat in the car and the guy in the back was like my daughter wants to be daughter, and she's twenty two and and he's like I'm trying to tell her she's crazy. And I said don't stop that. I was like stop that. What are you doing that for? I said you realize which potential she has I sit here, and I said. Mir Email I'm going to send her one of my joy -als. I said, here's my Instagram. I'm gonna follow right founder, I followed her. And I was like I was like, hopefully, she might know why? And she might not. But I'm gonna tell you right now support her in everything you do because I have the Tigers that I've coached at have made have made a dollar nother making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year because of headshot. So if if they can do it, I know she could do it in whatever she wants to do fashion. But but I was so mazed by that. So I'm sitting out in in this high school watching these wide eyed kids knowing that the that there they've got an uphill battle because of where they started. But also knowing that talent just goes blast right over that. I was like if they're talented with a camera, they can do anything. So I pushed him on that. I was like is. I I'm self taught. I did. I mean, I picked up a camera and started shooting. I mean, I was fortunate to be in New York and and modeling so I saw what the top of the. And I think that's all it was I wearing this because I saw the top. I was working with Bruce Weber and tires that caliber. And I think that's that's all it was I was just around it. So I said, you know, just figure out what you want set your goals and star working towards and the principal set in on it all day in a bunch of other people. They said they never saw the class so attentive, and then they I was teaching three classes. And then after I did the first one that the kids like half the kids from that class tried to skip their next class and stay in there with me, it was so cool. Awesome. So one of the things one of the things I love about the way, you inspired some high school kids in this. And this is why brought it up. We have a lot of listeners here who are very very qualified that that are great photographers, and there everybody's always looking for ways to get involved in their community. And I think everybody forgets that when the tax Bill doesn't pass in any community in the United States the programs that involve the arts always get cut, and there's an opportunity for so many listeners out there if you're looking for something that just have a little bit of impact. Jump on a career day. And I mean, I I I remember going back years ago with Terry dayglo when he was Kodak, and we wound up speaking at a at an elementary school in Latrobe, and we had we had fifth and sixth graders there, but they were so excited to be, you know, they're shooting for the school newsletter at the time, and that was years ago, and now to be able to go into a high school, and and share some inspiration, and maybe teach them, you know, maybe it's just a couple of posing techniques. It doesn't it doesn't mean you've got to come in and teach a full program on photography, but just to be able to inspire. It's just it's a great way to give back. And I I love I I'm so glad I had caught it on your website the other day 'cause it's a it's a great story. I wanna hit. I know we're just about out of time. Am I right that headshot shot? Mania to is coming back next year in Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait. We did it in. We did outside of Egas in outside of Palm Springs actually in in twenty eighteen and then we skip twenty nine hundred zero brain it back in twenty twenty and it's going to be right before WPI the nineteenth to the twenty first at the in Vegas. I can't be more excite. We haven't launched anything yet. But people can go to headshot mania dot com and get updates great opportunity everybody, and we'll make sure to include that in the show notes as well for sure for people who want to check that out. Cool. Very cool. You know, I'm really looking forward. I'm bringing in a big team people last time, we had my gosh, we had like twelve instructors and a bunch of excursions. And and it was crazy. And we're fine tuning it again. And we couldn't be more excited. And I wanted it to coincide with WPI so people could partake in that as well. So it's it's there's one rest day in between. So people could come the whole week to Vegas if they wanted to and get some head. Out of it and get prepped for WBZ with the with hedge mania. Well, it looks like we're coming up at the end of our time in my right skip. We're you're right. It's like being in a time warp as the time just went so fast and Peter. I'm feeling super spied right now. Actually, just listening to you talk. And the passion in your voice really carries through in such a pleasure to have you back on the show. Again. This is to cool. I love being on and skip. Thank you. When he bumped into me sheriff is he's like, let's get you on the show. Like, you better believe it. Let's do it. And I just flew in last night because I was in Chicago. And and he's like, let's do it today. We're doing right away. So here we are guys. Thanks for having me. Well, I have to tell you you are one of the few photographers out there that does a sit there and go to your calendar and go, you know, I'll I'll have let's say this. I'll have a day, you know, three weeks from now where I've got a half hour, the fun of this podcast for everybody that that's listened to them. These are unreal. Horst? There is no script. We did. Let peter. No. We were going to ask them the question about how he got started. But that's just background everything else is just a conversation. And it's meant to be as simple as if we sat down next to you on a plane, Peter and said, so what do you do? And there's a lot of good content that you just shared today. And it just comes out of making it easy like that. So thank you. Thank you for just jumping on it. And not we didn't want to turn it into a big production. Nah. I love it. My pleasure. Peter working folks find you in line to check out your work in your workshops. Mike coaching platform and referral engine for hedge photography is hedgehog. Crude dot com, we've got over fifteen thousand photographers on the site. I've got thirteen hundred that are partaking in my coaching group, which I just love coaching them. I actually have to jump on crew cast right now at four with them. But my work is at Peter Hurley dot com. They could see my work their perfect and skip working, folks. Find you always the same places everything right is on skip Cohen university dot com and you'll find me on Facebook skip cone and Twitter on Facebook. And my Email is skip at M E. I the number five hundred dot com, and I give you that. Because we're always looking for feedback. And also one thing I was forget to ask remind people if you've just got a question, and you're stuck on something Shamir, and I won't always have the answers. But boy, we have a great network of people that do so right to us and Shamir where they can find you folks can find. They can Email me Shamir at photo, focus dot com. That is Shamir my first name C H A M I R A at photo, focus dot com. Skipping. I love getting questions in deals and feedback about the show because our listeners feedback absolutely drives. How we move forward with the show and with that said, Peter we just want to thank you again. This has been amazing podcast. Guys, a love it. And we wanna think our listeners for joining us as well. Please tell you friends about this podcast spread the word, especially if the burning desire to improve their tighter business, we look forward to have me with us next time on mind your own business. Brought to you by focus and skip bone university.

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Luis Venegas on Print Media in an Age of Uncertainty | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

57:43 min | 11 months ago

Luis Venegas on Print Media in an Age of Uncertainty | Inside Fashion

"Heiney GLOOM AND TIM. Gunn are back to launch the next global fashion brand in making the cut in his new original series from Amazon twelfth designers from around the world compete for the opportunity to take their brand to the next level. You episodes available every Friday. Watch making the cuts. Only on prime video question was for a long time taking inspiration from all the transversal world but never paid back. You make magazines that people would say that themselves. I have a great idea for magazine now. It will never work. But you've gone ahead and done those magazines Avenue Kanye revenue publication. I do I always feel equally. The last one by break. Do Be Flexible and whatnot myself to the near situations. And that's how you become somehow resilient what happens for everybody now. Had we moves out of this crisis before this crisis. Every new day was also uncertain. We feel that we have controlling the greatest tree. He's like okay. I leave myself carbs. Hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast in the latest episode of B. O. F. Live our other large. Tim Blank spoke with Luis Venegas editor and creative director of the cult magazine. Candy they speak about. Fashion has been taking inspiration from gender non conforming cultures without referencing or crediting them. How candy has been critical celebrating. What Vanegas calls the transversal universe and what? It's like to run a magazine like candy in the face of an existential crisis like the corona virus outbreak. Here's Tim blanks and Louis Benegas inside fashion. I'm Tim blanks today. I'm talking to Louis Finagle. Magazine publisher extraordinaire and many other things as well I'm a magazine Junkie. He's a man who has managed to turn his addiction into a Madrid based publishing empire. So I'm really livable. Talking Tam Today. So welcome Louis. It's wonderful to see you Hello everybody Damn I don't know if I should say I'm sorry that would meeting in these in these circumstances but in another way it's it's it's really interesting because you are releasing this book. It's absolutely gorgeous book. Everybody's Ream to have a book published by Rizzoli. The first ten years of Your magazine Candy. Which was what you call the world's first transversal magazine now. That is one of the magazines you publish you. Also have Julie Willing Book covers now. My favorite and the way I found out about you was this magazine. Fanzine one three seven and then you have electric use and you have the printed dog. You make magazines that people would say to themselves. I have a great idea for a magazine. Now it will never work but you've gone ahead and you're done those magazines and made them into beautiful object collectible beautiful things it. Anybody who has ever been in love with a magazine. You have totally tapped into that. Loves TO MAKE IN BLUSHING WELL GOOD. I mean I can't heap praise on your head because You know it's it's I see a library there and it's absolute masterpiece Order Mine is. When is this? This is like Just like you say you're saying my neighbour. No this is like a little inch off the library. No Yeah I mean I I I I mean I've grown up like that. I really love magazines since I was a child and in a way especially fashion magazines and imagery and that scene actually studied fashion design. Because somehow I felt I wanted to be related to the water fashion but then years later realize what I fell in love really of the fashion world wasn't really like you know production of clothes or small evergreens or something that really is industry. I was in love with fashion because of the imagery and the fantasy of fashion that I could see in magazines any books about fashion. That war goff flipped over fresh Hyphenated doors that that made me fan in love with fashion and arts and many other things so I don't know I kind of Dream. Save like well someday. I will like to do my own magazine. And since the first one zero seven that was that was in two thousand four. I mean it's like a sixteen years ago and even blocks back event. Where can starting seeing so I mean for me? There was no option. Maybe if I was thinking about when amazing today new I will start with digit or something but at that time I mean black from that the next stage to remain starting little by little. I mean he wasn't something I am not also he wasn't the thing that I will related to the time so yeah. I tried to start and I made them less now. You see you say that if doing something now you imagine it might be digital but I think what I've always loved about what you do. Is that you you honor the magazine as the Phantom jet. You know when when when I think about the magazines that I when I left New Zealand in one thousand nine hundred seventy four. I had three suitcases and one of them was full of magazine and it was. It was like my favorite magazines. It was the life magazine. Charles Manson on the front and it was very the very first issue of Fabulous magazine with the Beatles on the front and it was a David Bowie. God knows they're actually the only ones that are in plastic. I mean everything else Everywhere but the actual physicality of magazine is something that you ana That you very deliberately set out to do with candy. Which was to take your subject. You'll the marginalized people that you wanted to focus on and give them the absolute multi Vogue Treatment Make Candy as glossy and gorgeous and in disposable as it possibly could be guests douglas. The the I mean I I the I mean. When I started to plan the Doing Candy I felt like it was. It should be something white up the opposite of Dr Magazine I wanted to be glossy on his DS huge celebration of all the subjects and although modest that I was hoping to treat in China amazing show. It's not about them. Tell us about. You'll you'll subjects yet. Well as candidate is focus on what I call the transversal. A people People many people I mean the people who know can be maybe often they think is a trans for transgender magazine. But it's not only about trans or transgender people is also an Rajini stays gender nonconformity people drag queens and also The gender people who suddenly go for transformation for one day for a shoot for fun so for me but was the. That's what Games Branka exactly. The BEBOP Franco puts on the coat. Or like it's for Spanish versus kind of ask you about that is so the thing is like I. I said All of those manifestations basically everything that was like Okay go fuck. Gender Denver doesn't matter. Let's celebrate everything. Well if matters of course but it doesn't matter in a way you know as like Let's focus on everything that has to be. Celebrate the around all those many stations. And that's how it came with bursts of grants because it means going from one place another transitioning going you know and then universal transversal. It felt like okay. Maybe this is the word in a way and That's the magazine focus on. I felt like fashion was for a long time taking inspiration from all the transversal world but never pay back. You know it never it never. I mean that was very all of these aren't by Conde. Dining was something about. The people didn't really know many people who can deduct it was maybe it wasn't obscure subject before especially the younger generations. Sheds Allegra K. Let's put it all together in a magazine. Let's see what happens. Let's see he's going to explode or survive? I don't know but you don't want it to be like a political steam or something like a political statement. I want it to be a celebration. Actually a celebration of style. A celebration of awesome intelligence way on humor and everything that's related to fashioning to celebrate the although stinks and indefinitely broad broadening. The concept abuse. See as well Just making beauty side much more of an inclusive idea taking the traditional fashion magazine approach to beauty and then just In that will you say that the the James Franklin cover we guess Viva Franken When you started your obsession when you when you obsession with magazines began to evolve what was what was Spain like at that time. And how difficult was it for you to feed your obsession? I don't understand what you mean my At what what was Spain talking about you? Presumably you started two thousand and two. You started doing fanzine but you obviously a you know. I imagine you were a teenager in your room. Right collecting Things feeding your obsession. Yes how difficult was it in in? We are talking to Madrid today by the way everybody. So Lewis is in Madrid on on lockdown and I just one good company you know. Just yeah I get that question now. I the first D'Amato that I was really really bury into an colleague. It was marvel comic books. I love the X. Men despite their mind I have thought of that now like the cinema big force. I I love all of that actually. I'm reading a lot of those. These days again. The secondary it used to be back in the eighties when I was a child. And it's amazing. How much they I mean now. I'm realizing now that I'm around. Forty how how they made me. The person I am today is like it's amazing. I remember this little bay or something everything well and also in terms of compensation when I compose a page I can see. It's like oath Storyboards that comic books are in away. Now when I work in my mind I br beginning to realize how those influenced me but then from there went to. I remember my uncle. He broke to me on a record of Spanish singer and see what's wearing addressed by Spanish designer and she was shot by caveat by Bennie. I don't know how many people know Scott Baio Rocky Wirtz. An amazing photo release by back in the eighties was like a master together with Paolo. Roberto were Nick Knight it when the wants playing with caller and everything so from from that. Colbert record. I I keep pulling the thread and I saw I I. I've read graduates or photographs and there was also one gutty behind the graphic design of the whole saving so unclogged rat. They were doing the imagery for CB la. Sabina was also a fashion designer back in the eighties. So I'm finding all the world and they made me feeling lost fairly with with Magazines with with because they get by magazines to try to find the images that they were doing. Yeah it was an easy in. I was living in little down in the suburbs of Barcelona. Now Mike Broadens live there and I have to take a train. It's like twenty minutes from Barcelona so I mean don't find international magazines back in there. I had to go through our salon now and then I don't know for some reason that interest I mean if there's always like a little threat or something like twelve years old or something. When I saw that photograph that I'm telling you now about I mean starting from now all of these years later I'm much more impressive than many things and the things that our economy went through a sky knows. I have a certain policy in that Valentine. A- documentary is the Honda beauty or stumping. Somehow I feel like I went to see and discover new things that may things from the past that maybe I haven't seen yet the thing that sets me the most the rediscovered things that I was supposed to know and I was like what I've been that police. Kande never saw these before something but back. Then it wasn't. It wasn't easy but in a way I went. I started going more and more I alone or both meals and it was so exciting everything. Now you see a cover of a magazine like one months before. It seemed a new stance. You'll see those in your cell phone and that's okay at. How exciting was then the Global News and discovered the magazine there until Kit on? I mean that was really exciting. It sounds like Older Generation d'aquin badly creative. Okay well I'm an older generation. The new I had exactly the same feeling when you when you got pull away. When Bruce Weber did a special issue totally with a bounden something like the summer diary bound into the magazine. When you got back I was living in Toronto. Then and you just like it was probably the only one of them came in to Toronto and you had it and the feeling of I mean I've got all of them. I like you just they become. You'll you'll little your tokens. I have to say this even lockdown. I'm lucky that I have my dog so I can walk him and there's a new stand that the snyder fashion near at all. I mean they have like boss guards and everything but for some reason they keep bringing international fashion magazines. I don't know why not I mean not that most excuse wines by the Mason wants and I think he basically lays gradient went to me. Is that the the leash issue of a bow us. I wanted to go so I even in the days of lock them. I Walk Little. Bit Farther than I'm supposed to be allowed to go and looking for magazines. I know that well I I suppose that begs the question. What do you feel about magazines now? I mean the the the I feel the investment I had in finding the face or a blitz or pillowy a Jill Jill from Paraguay. Burs life magazine Babette Dijon's magazine though. When you found those magazines that sort of you had a connection with polly was it was so hard to find them I just wanted to now where I just wonder if what what makes a magazine special now that that that is what thrilled me about fanzine and about candy that they I realized. Now you're talking. I realized they brought back that feeling of of kind of liked that. Zing of obsession. Because you're obsessed so you know I can totally relate but you do see that in other places you still see that in other places. Now you've been another Madison's in other magazines. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. I like many magazines Do electing to drop names of magazines that I like or for some reason. That would be nice. I love to do that. I I'm not one of those editors who feels like all other bobby. Our editors are their enemies. No I keeping giant Barry much what my other competitors are doing or something. I like very much Actually let's start with with the Spanish magazine so so you know I think about those guys are great while Yeah I. I also like very much Buffalo Buffalo's sin They're actually there are the ones I mean. We're supposed to be a new issue outlet Now but they have to stop or something that may be. That'd be belayed or something so tomorrow at eight you can download a little Vdi for partly of conduct or something. So I will check that I would like to see I'm excited to see new things What else like I make like some Lady Liberty? Much this magazine. Great Huge magazine. The new revision that they started like Like three four five years ago of Holiday magazine. Yeah finding I love holiday but this I realized that they like. It doesn't matter if they go through this candy. Nabi out or Egypt. Every issue looks kind of the same New Zealand. If let you see it's like they do one issue for his country because of me about Anna distinct. They have such a strong personality that I think it goes against the concept itself. Because it's like it doesn't matter where they go every issue looks kind of the same always great and always probably less but I mean I'm saying yes I compliment because what. I liked the most in magazines if your going to ask. This kind of thing is personality liking. I it making people. I mean actually audiobook or in a magazine or in the movie. I not to see a boys. I love to see different personality. Something that is makes a brother or an article distinctive from anything else. I thought I'd like to see that. And I I mean the identity on the under you know when you feel like this so I don't know I like fantastic man. What they do is always great. I feel like they started. Like a like a school of Maximal. Our magazine say they also influence other Gentleman magazines away. So I like that. They like that. The strong personality is working on on on printed matter. And then I. I think something that that you did that. I respond to in magazines Like System magazine does the my no I is. Is that wonderful sense of the archive coming alive. You know that absolutely you did this. with fanzine. I'm out. I'll never know how you got. People like Richard Buckley Bruce Weber to Iraq. Stu was a I I did read that you you're right. The Most Thomas Jefferson. Hack in it all worked for the Candy Book. Did say that. You're famous for writing the most charming lessons that absolutely nobody can resist. So you got intensely private people basically send you the baby photos with what was just incredible. That you've got people to do something like that But in candied at the at the beginning of candy you would you very diligent about introducing your audience to the lost heroes and heroines of the LGBT LGBT. Should culture of reminding people that that baffles had been Ford and won or lost for decades on behalf of freedoms that people had now And I always thought that was really that added. This incredible emotional undeterred to candy. I I it's there's nothing. There's nothing better than initiating something you love and also being able to feel gratified that you learned a whole lot while you're loving it. You know that in some way you'll consciousness was expanded. I'm blowing smoke up your ass here but I think that that's the very it's very. It's a very valuable thing that you manage to do with your. You managed to turn your obsession. This incredible platform to give credit to people who maybe never had it while they were alive or even even while they also give the thing that surprised me. I mean surprisingly. Thank you very much I am. I mean I the people who really have to get the credit for all of that for five classroom inclusive. Everything that is the actually are the activists that people who have five. I mean I'm just done an ally making a magazine been always not the kind of but I recently. I read a quote of Franken had Sahni in. There's a book of her And they were talking about that. Famous black models issues idiots for she did for bogey and she said like you know anyone could have done it. But I'm the one who did it and I kind the same. I was wondering myself. How is it that it has never been done before I I mean I was feeling before it started in Jefferson Hack? You watched one of the people. I talked to On there's also. Jimmy poll asked five dollars hairdresser. Who just beat Jimmy Paulette in benefits the non golden images of the brackets the offer actually and I saw. Yeah studying geniune thinking about doing this. Nice in how you have to do it and you have to. Now I mean don't waste your time. If it was very very encouraging he was like well. Okay so maybe I have to do it. It was two thousand when he gave me. That advice does West. Recession Time Same as now is going to be. Probably it. Looks like he's going to be another recession. And that's in recession when this goes out it's like Phil. Somehow is closing the circle or something but yeah. I don't know it's the right thing to do and I'm I'm happy. Does somehow the response from many people who had been somehow diminish too fast now. They felt like they have a platform and they have a n. I sorry I have to say I never. I mean backing thousand eight thousand nine. I never saw any transgender or transvestites. Or drag Queens on the. I mean there were some one and they're they're add never in the car on the cover of Glossy Fashion magazine. They were not inclusive included in most fashion shows are something. So I'm not saying all of that happened because of candy but certainly I mean maybe I realized it was going to happen and I realized the little than everybody else and it would that magazine. Somehow everything together help to the. It's funny because I wanted to be a the usual glossy fashion magazine and now glossy fashion magazines more and more seo content that could be very easily be in candy. So it's ready. I love that I mean somehow I feel I'm not putting any metal or something. I helped to manage some across an agent of change or something. I say I don't know. I hope I contributed to that. But do you feel that as as the world is opened up to embrace the culture that you focus on in the magazine when we have repulsed drag race finished huge multi Emmy Awards Sensation Emmy Award winning sensation? We have Survey that's the I mean. Yeah she's like ten years doing it but the recognition and the words arrived like two or three years ago. Yeah she's doing the show for seven years before that recognized on we'd be both repeal signs directly with what you need and finally getting their mission so I guess he thinks but at the end if the message is strong and everything it it. I mean it's GonNa be there he's GonNa succeed. I I hope I guess but then you have posed as well and you have. You have the shows you have these these things which if you think what when was Priscilla Queen of the desert? How long ago was that? I think ninety three ninety four. Okay so that was. That was an outrider at that point. Yeah there's always been like a luminaires light Brazilan many others. Of course. Yeah there's always been but you feel candy has changed to reflect. I feel From the from the beginning of candidates now I feel candy got younger. I feel it got more reflective of the culture. Now it got it. Aimless Archive will And it was. It was much more about reflecting. You know when you have hurriedness editing an issue and ally and doing the multi covers and and it's it seems like it's less Less kind of can I say. This is sort of introduction to a culture As it was when you first start when you had a story on Candy Darling herself. Men. Now it's much more reflection of what's happening right now. It seems to it's it seems now to be more of a more kind of journalists it perhaps than it used to be and you mean it in a is a good Would like to know it. Just it just feels a lot more like you felt you'd done what you set out to achieve and now you will making a magazine that was about now in a way. When they started there was there was there was a lot that was about the end. They were they were you. Could you could see you've been saving up stories for years. These are the people if I ever had a magazine. These people want to be a story on could feel that and now it's much more. It's it feels much more immediate much more rooted in the now APPs I know at a at a note of I mean I guess I'm not I mean I am the same person that I was back then in two thousand nine because I basically think we we don't change by we keep on transforming ourselves go so maybe my own feeling of it. It's it's not a I mean what do mention I appreciate at the supper section of you. I mean of your feeling looking at the magazine. It's not really a bland or something that I but. Yeah there's more kneel. I mean there's more transgender and personnel. Yeah Yeah and so I wanted to show is more of that culture. Exactly half-way photograph. Yes yeah so. That's much more but still I always. I mean although stories are night archive or something. I always have a special place in my heart from to them. No yeah because I really enjoyed. I mean in the last issue of candy. There's a story of a of a transfer man which is alive. Her name is Joey. Gabriel and she. She's been photographed by non-gaullist Jackson David on actually she has a lot of fades as in the book and was shot by the same by her friend fabulous. Journalists and artists called sunny suits. She's always been Berry Berry supportive. I'm very collaborative to me. She believes in candy a lot. So she's kind of Joey her still visual images kind of unknown or babies. Justin obscure the Spaniards Lebron Cox. You know it's a different kind of icon for minority. And I felt like I'm she was. Sahni of the lady who the girl who was doing the study of outer she gets showing me scrapbooks that Joe we had done with photos and gets from concerts and everything I was like. These are amazing. We have to put this in a magazine and it became the longer story. The longest story of candy is like sixty basis in the last year of Candy. And I did that and then I had response from Highness for example is USA me. Who's this Joey Davis Amazing? So you know way it's like a again. This kind of thing thing is going. I said like how exciting west to go to a at the news and see the magazine. It's something of younger people. Maybe don't get well at the end. They get it. I mean the younger generation of people I mean I have I mean I had France Counting NEED TO PUT A. I need term helping to all the library in place and every time they have a book that it wasn't a a wild is working so somehow boss Brinson neglecting. Its and digital much beach. Those southlake enjoy very much physical stuff. Everything is scheduled the same as long as it has like a again identity and it's a strong passion and Heart in all those stories. Somehow I don't know like like Shimon or something. Sorry when when when did you first become aware transversal culture what what was the? What were the key people? Who who kind of would you into it? I was a child when I was a child when I was seeing some singer on TV and my sister. She's four years older than me. I was probably like seeks or seven or something she thought. Hey you're lying the female singer and it was like yeah. He's amazing look at her and she was well she said boy. I no no no. It was boy George Charlie. As a child he looked like A. I mean that's went. He had the bribes on the word is snooping over all of that down the chameleon that Baba and he looks so amazing with a makeup on everything I was like. Wow so he never. I'm being he's not a transgender person at all but to me that image somehow broke the concession had as a child of how a woman go look up abortion way. I mean maybe ball we on all of them. I mean they were before that I discovered them later because child and so that was wasn't to be back in the eighty S. He was more later. The image for me. The first time it was it was the boy. George yes then. Any Lennox stressing like a man which was exactly the same time. Sweet Dreams are made of these iconic. Look I mean that Iran. Hair the suit. Everything was affection that was those are strong images that so by the time. I mean it doesn't matter could have been done while it could have been done yesterday. It was done back in the eighties because I felt like maybe I hope I don't know this whole crisis. Maybe if it brings something growth. Maybe I feel like in the last issue in years like last two decades of the century and even maybe the I do a bit of this century I mean when I was a child growing up in the eighty s. There was the of the future. How few doors going to be how the future was Italian? That how that's why I get the perception because when you're the child somehow you see fewer more and more worst but now everything looks more like they used to focus on bringing things from the past but not really give recognition to the to the funds where they found those references or something so I don't know if we like When it's again every every every generation isn't titled to Have Their View. I consider seeing by. I don't know I feel like back in the eighties and early nineties. Most of the bourgeoisie of future There's going to be. What can they bring to the future? What would is neil there in March Of thing more than it is now because I think that it had you know when you talk about the Boy George Images and now he was so benign in a funny way but how inflamed people go by him or even even you can go ten years later and you can look. It could cobaine wearing those dresses that he will or ten years earlier. And you think about the images that that that hit me the way Boy George you I remember seeing a story about the caucus in a magazine and I remember the first story I ever saw about. Jackie Curtis and Candy. Darling a magazine now. I was absolutely mesmerized by these people and the whole notion of transgression lacking transversal. I mean this transformation this transition but also transgression it is. That's a that's enormously appealing to a certain kind of teenager The there was something so utterly there was something joyful but there was something so transgressive about about the caucus warhol superstars. I was obsessed and I would read. I come to a magazine like come candy and it gives me the back story that I wanted to have when I first read about those people do a big heavy evidently big story about high biscuits and candy about who have not yet not yet nothing. Actually I've been with one of the original croquettes A roomy Masanobu. And but yeah. It's it's one of the but I also feel like they were fierce stories of makeup guests. Lots Jack I is amazing. Stephen May settle inspiring story in the way. That was a great one in acting in favor. I mean those now are like a seventy chevelle unleashed so maybe I'll kind than I ever gate memories assured but it's just it's just funny. How powerful you talk about. Boy George and how powerful lows those things have a stay with you and how they kind of full the way you look at the things you find yourself. You know when David Bowie came along and used used slowly and image in his images and videos. Thanks and 'em how are you? You had that sense that a lot of other people like you. Who had been looking at the stuff. But you didn't know you know those people you've found them later on you sound you'll people. Did you feel sort of you? A quite isolated. When you first did fanzine no never. I've never so elated at all. It's like I mean I'm not I don't know if you I mean we really enjoy being now. Our little Border Place of three or something. I I always have France. I've always enjoyed very much going out with my friends but I by far much being home alone in looking at magazines and look searching for I don't know I I I really like it. So and the people who are now part of my crew of people that I am Franson. Somehow you have to look for them but not really to me it. It happened. Naturally you know way and many friends. I've met them through the. I've met them through the work. I've done Had these relied conducting. Somehow that person becomes my friend and I don't know it's it's very much like that and I never felt I mean it's really great that now there's social media and if there's some people feeling some teenager girl or boy feeling as maybe late that that I never felt that maybe they feel now through social media they have the many people like them everywhere in the world and that's so great I mean and we have the possibility seen this many different golders different from what we see every day while of course this is nothing new. What I'm saying like now like at a yesterday. No it's been like that for the last two allison year for something really great. The realized that it's like I really say it's a very progressive thing when people say like iphones over. Screens is elated. As I never thought that was true before and now with this crisis is less through than ever before. Now that we are that we have to stand this screens that we able to communicate and see each other so I feel like the perception through that is Gonna. Change also do older generation because the Miami. I see my nephew on. May Thirteen and fourteen years old. They don't even think about it. I mean tonight Screens for granted as we have Foams for granted. I Dunno away when I was growing up. You know so. It's like when you see those eighties Mobile is still h movies. And there's a girl talking on the phone on there's another kid. Hey I default or something years the same thing as asking your son or your asking your children now to stop looking at the at the at the computer. The cell phone is the same thing. Only the object is the friend. But he's the same thing I could go back further to the day when they would telephone exchanges. Like bye bye Birdie with everybody on the telephone exchange but failed with Elizabeth. I'm still the. The idea appeals to me that in the nineteenth century there were literary salons and You know where people would get together and rices auspice musicians of dances. Whatever would get together. There'd be the sort of exchange of ideas and everybody would go away and rich right now. There's an old repeatedly exhibition on in London which nobody can go and see unfortunately but he did the sinkhole the yellow book and he drew all the sort of interesting kind of transgressive people from his moments into this this publication and that became lack the benchmark for for culture moving forward. It became like the inspiration for people who came after him. Isis and Rice's musicians and so on and I kind of feel when you have something like candy It's like a secret society in a way that that just you know expands to embrace the world and I wonder how you know you're living in Madrid you'll you'll I have ever see you anywhere. I'm you you're not like somebody who's kind of wildly traveling around the circuit You know like a like a imperialist does I just wonder how whether you have a step back and look what you've done and think. Oh my God you know that that is not I mean you. You have a sort of innate humility but You need a lot of ego to to achieve what you've achieved up man humility. There's they saw from cutlass segment where she says. I don't expect humility. But what about some would all dishonest modesty? So I feel like I'm kind of some. I mean Yeah. I'm going to reveal yet. I The most. I play dishonest modesty. Actually because I know what I've done and I I'm brought obeyed and Yeah it's like What was the question? I whether you have a setback from whether you could save by look good. God is finding this. I have an your submission about the ego. Yes I have I have to say. Maybe because I'm more Bursa late to us back by you and I'm not I kind of have a big ego yet but longest seawall was at the same time to be flexible and doing all and not to be. I mean but Eagle in I hope to me Vesta way possible. I know who I am. I being buried a secure about myself. I'm Mike bowers in a way I always have. I mean I grew up being the bully. Who had the better grades in in a school in always in my classroom so somehow that helped me and also my mother. When I was a child she just to say she just down me. Oh my son. You're still beautiful. Your handsome how beautiful you are so I grew up thinking I was this kind of a ball or something. I realized I'm not. I mean I used to be a different kind denny. God I. I hope that that gave me confidence. I really gave me confidence in what doing what I can do. What my powers are and then doing the Mac with doing the book the book when you say Michael Accomplish now that it's finally I was looking to all those users that Donald the last eight years and I you know I know exactly what story is and I mean if you tell me remember I show you the way of the bread like yeah. That was in the thirties. You know I really know where everything is in. I was looking at those magazines and it was like something else. Someone else had done them. I mean is like there's a lot of war in here. How do they manage? But the thing is on managing to do that every day so I really also believe in those things in my hands like the work hard. Hard work I feel like well if you have the kind of special powers to do something while you have to work to make them happen. It's not only being. I mean the more. It's not only about I. Every time thinking on that thing where they say. Oh he's or she's such a talent while Donald is okay but it's not off. I mean you'll have to work on that otherwise dahlen goes wasted. I don't know it's like So it's it's things like the worst thing in my case. Is the hard work where I do what I like the most to do so for me. It's not like it's not like all I have to go to work now. It's right astronaut For you or on the theme doing on you're going to show and real thinking and writing on. Robert is a thing that moves you the most to do. I guess I don't know Back that I think you're extremely blessed if you can if you can do what you love when you love what you do you know I. It's yeah but also You're blessed but at the same time I feel like you have to be in a way especially when you start your life and your younger Brian to realize where you're going to do with your lights. I have to realize said hopefully when you realize to have to be brave. I'm both for it because sometimes people get scared like I don't know I mean if you're looking for I mean being an independent body share like I am right now and Gwen bring as young doing right now. People are saying about you sleep duration with corona buyers. And everything. All of. It's GonNa Change. Everything is what have you so weak. I mean I've always I mean. Probably now he's GonNa be worse than ever but I always kind of I mean my team is always been like A. Maybe if you'll have a team of people that you have to pay their salaries every month. Yeah it's kind of scary but in my way I've always felt like Avenue of Candy or Revenue Publication. I do I always feel like it could be the last one because assignment independent person and I'm not I don't have a financial or something You know being the the I mean I have to mind is sold that so I always felt like kind of you know like working on that thread like novelist or something and somehow succeeding through our right to the last four next. And then you go away and then I mean doing that. Same thing with like novelists from when he should another native Dan GonNa fall or something. But I don't know to be flexible and without myself to new situations. And that's how I that's how you become some how resilient and use those things in a way so you're is really working on that every day if you fool you have piles and piles of books and magazines to tombs. Softened the impact. I have to ask you if there was something catastrophic in you in your place. What is what would you. What would you run towards to say? What would be the thing that you what. What is the one magazine that you would say? The one that hours to the one magazine this I mean it's funny because you know this great photo critic been solidity. Yes rate one. S Yeah I got real with him this. I wasn't burn back then. Keep discovery when when I mean. He was a child when he went through the the news on both. Got One but this issue of Harper's bazaar April Nineteen Sixty. Five is a very famous goes. They have insurance undercover with a blend. Yes yeah honest. Guest edited by Richard and I bought it. I don't know like ten years ago or something way later. I mean it was. I wasn't born in nineteen sixty five westbound way later but it doesn't matter because the energy the energy on an extremely strong the graphics I can't leave the same feeling the same emotion as being the nature by then on describing all that but I can see the hour and it was done by a really good friend of mine the creative Eddie Dornald. There are directed for issue. I mean return was the guest editor but the art director was Ruth Ansel. She is like not. She's like cops. She is a eighty something. I will say an item through ask a lady in New York Iconic ICONIC in the best way islanders iconic Barry Austin about A cheese and she was doing Harper's bazaar back in the sixty s and the New York Times in the seventies and Bindi Fair within Lebron's in the eighties. So for me. That's like wow. When then all the books he's been doing lately she's work a lot with team worker recently in the last year so also and the fact that she had that's meant to that specific issue. I mean for many reasons that one of the of my most favorite after that all the Especially Ninety six. Oh Ninety seven. I felt like those years. They did like the strongest the with may sounded they did like the strongest stories of the Lieber was there everybody was there. I mean Hell. New Dome was shooting for Italian identity. Any I mean the the talent of people working in there. Well also right now. There's amazing great that people working in. I love note. Photographer's light hardly wear. She's grade or be beyond Sasser or Act Davison yet the missing incredibly Jiang's Rian and there's also people that are actually showed him for Gandhi and I feel like that growing up in this great for clay. I'd really love her. I mean there's also I mean the the wheel doesn't stop and I also feel like Oprah said before like all these Stalin is also an with a great for work and the people who are talented. But they're doing something there. I mean I know. They added on a hard worker has been banned is or was I mean and now these young people are also working tyler. Mitchell now doing exhibitions and working for vogue. And I mean if you're living the dream of living making a living of your passion of what you like you have to. I mean you lackey so you'll have to dwar car in order to was it gets always someone else as they say. Being showgirls at the end of the stairways hoping happy to do what's out of time but I just wanted to ask you one more thing Lewis in this moment that we've that the This moment that invalid us. That contextualize is everything. We've been talking about right now. What you see happening but you've just mentioned a whole lot of talented young people whose were conspires you and I feel the same way there is. There are people now making me feel really good about magazines What what what happens for everybody now? Had We move out of this crisis in a way that Support SINCE THE SAINTS. Everyone well we should was Which is kind of Donald for something magical our. I have a little ball or something to say about what to say but I mean recently. I've always I mean like yesterday or a couple of days ago. There was a boss from racism a lot. She said like Like when when in terms in this time of this crisis has something like I dunno. I squad her but you can go through instagram and check her viruses Follow her and now she says in this time of a crisis a has the potential of bringing the best in all of us and I feel like that quote is I mean. It's kind of a basic away but a feeling that's also kind of a true is like Well we are going to figure out how to keep on doing things and we always spent I also Even though it sat on Florida nate a horrible situation. We'll have been so much better you will. We will have the chance to continue life normally but does not the anymore? It's not gonNA happen. This thing is happening now so we have to figure it out move forward. Well yes right to remain somehow positive feeling strong about ourselves who we are what we can do how we can Be More sympathetic more compassionate to others because he also failed before this like things. Were GOING REALLY FAST. Like really like a congenial. Like when you see one of those with rain that is like snow. Pf Sarah Rain keeps running running running on you know at some point. He's going to explode or something. It's pretty much that way. And the and now it feels like maybe the train I was kind of crashing little by little. But then it's like a phoenix from the X. men again you'll have to rise up again at the ingredient the recipe to make that thing work. I really don't know it's like Is Uncertain but before this crisis every new a was also uncertain. We feel that we have drawn things but the greatest of is like okay. I live myself to cows. And let's see what it brings to me. Maybe is running. Any bad is GonNa be good but it doesn't have to be enough to be necessarily add that he knows I mean. I don't know it's difficult to say it's kind of. It's also how you date seeing and what you make of them in a way. What were the words on the spine of the last issue of candidate It was if love deadlocked thank you. Louise was lovely to talked here. I buy if you've enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe. Give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion. Global Membership Community B. O. Professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our NEW IPHONE APP by annual special print editions and all of the online courses and learning materials. Be off education.

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The Sartorialist, an interview with Scott Schuman, part 1

Dressed: The History of Fashion

54:11 min | 3 months ago

The Sartorialist, an interview with Scott Schuman, part 1

"Lee began today as meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind us. A little treat can go a long way so pick up your mccafe. iced coffees. Close your eyes and deep seven and deep satisfaction out. Think a treat retreat. At mcdonald's right now get mcafee iced coffee and any size and any flavor for just ninety nine cents until eleven. Am price of participation may vary the rock and roll hall of fame is partnering with iheartradio to bring you a brand new podcast series induction ball this show brings you back to the induction ceremonies for some of the most powerful moments on the rock and roll hall of fame stage featuring inspiring speeches direct from the artist themselves rock and roll hall of fame induction vault available now with new episodes every friday on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast dress. That's refashion is a production of iheartradio Been with over seven billion people in the world. We all have one thing in common every day. We all get dressed. Welcome to address the history of fashion. A- podcast that explores the who what win of why we wear we are fashion historians and your hosts cast zachary and april kellyanne. Okay cass. i have something to admit. And i think like a lot of women who moved to new york city when i first moved here i had a little bit of a you know when you made it. Fantasy part of this involves having a washer and dryer in your apartment that one the whole thing in new york and step to actually was to be stopped and photographed by today's guests. And i'm talking about two thousand seven here. And in two thousand seven there was absolutely nothing hotter than the sartori list. Oh yes and considered one of the most powerful men in fashion who is not a industry. Executive scott schuman is a world renowned fashion blogger and contemporary street style. Photographer his blog this. Our tory list blazed new territory in two thousand five when he began posting photographs of the sheikh the swan yeay and the ultra fashionable people. He met on the streets and today in the age of instagram. This of course may be given to us. But actually it was scott's body of work which set the stage for the influence or culture which was yet to come. And i am absolutely delighted and maybe just a little bit giddy. That scott is joining us. Today let's just say. I might have a professional crush on this artery. A-list entirely professional. Were keeping this professional. What i mean by that is like who doesn't want to travel the world and interacts with all these incredibly amazing people who loved communicate by way of style. You know sign me up. i'm all in. I think we are both all in and are both so excited to welcome scott the show today. Welcome scott we are so very excited to have you here with us today. And i would just like to point out that this zoom conversation is one hundred percent. Hoosier yes I'm sure that a lot of our listeners. Out there particularly our international listeners are totally unfamiliar with this term. But basically it's what people from the state of indiana call themselves. And i really consider kansas city more of my hometown. But i was of course born in indiana and lafayette and i grew up there until i was about eight so so to hoosiers in the big apple. That's us today. Just trying to make it in this crazy big apple. Yeah exactly and actually. There are more than a few really well known fashion designers. That are from indiana norman. Norell who've talked about on the show. Bill blass and also both halston and stephen sprouse grew up at like really formative periods of their childhood in indiana as well. So what about you person who's become very well known in is contemporary is a woman named angela arts. I thought i talked know her. But i'm going to look her after this. yes. She gave me my first job when i moved to new york from indiana. Actually i worked at bloomingdale's per couple for like three months. But she gave me my first real job for designer. Carmelo pomodoro who. She was the president of his company and choose from greenfield indiana. Which is a slightly more parts of indian. I was like just slightly more in closer to the city in indianapolis where she was bummed. But i guess our parents golf together and so. She gave me a chance. And she'd though went on to head henri bendel when it was open but her big shot well or second biggest job was at burberry she really turn burberry around so she was the head of burberry and then from there. She went to apple where she was the head of all retail. Wow yeah so. She is a major major player. So she's right up there in the ranks of important fashion people from the state of india. I love that that's awesome. Probably plays into something a little bit later that we're going to talk about a for a project for burberry that you did in two thousand nine rightfully. I don't think so. But i know what you're yeah so obviously you came to new york as you just mentioned and immediately started working in fashion. What was your kind of like educational path up to that point. How did you come to fashion in new york. Well i always say like every typical mid western straight boy. I grew up loving fashion and football. I don't know how those to actually do. How those planet. I grew up playing football in sports in all of that. All the athletes should talk about what fashion magazine they were reading. And what kind of music turntables. They had an all that. And i found that a lotta that kept talking about this magazine called q. And as i got older. And all the guys. I grew up playing football and baseball as they continue to get much bigger. I decided my life would be easier if i went. Worked at the mall and trying to beat them up on the football field and Somehow that also coincided with girls and everything else and so. I think probably in eighth grade is when i bought my first g. q. Magazine and Going up in indiana or even you said kansas city. I was born in lafayette and lived there until i was eight and then i moved to kansas city later but same idea. Like you know that such when you look into magazine like Were bogeyed such incredibly different world. You just can't even imagine places like you see you see guys running around wearing suits and they look like they're enjoying wearing suits and you see these beautiful women in these exotic locations and all that and so my education was just you know buying those magazines by getting the courage to go in and buy vogue. Which sounds are easy. But it wasn't at that time to be a young straight roy. Go into kroger grocery store and buy or chiku and in all these magazines. I think actually later really played shoe. How offer because you know. The whole world came to me through images. I liked to read the stories a little bit but not that much. I like to make up my own stories more. And i think that really informed the way i shoo. You know. i don't always tag people who they are where they are of let like the audience to make up their own stories. of who these people are basically. That was my fashion. Education was that there was so little education that you really have to be super aggressive as pre internet. I know i look much younger. But i'm not that young. I grew up most of my college without the internet. And yep so. You had to work a lot harder yet go library. You had really become a detective. That actually made it for me a lot more fun. I was almost like fashion archeologist. Yeah for sure. And you studied fashion in college or a payroll merchandising. Guests rose a double major apparel merchandising and costume construction out so because they really have a fashion major at indiana university. Where i wince but there was a very lovely lady there named Karl kuhn on a german teacher and so she taught herald merchandising and some technical sewing classes and she could tell i was very intuit much more into it than most the other people on so she really kind of took me under my under her wing and challenged me and i learned how to sew and she knew they since they didn't really have a proper fashion design that the music school offered costume. She could kind of wrangle. Some things for me and so my college was mainly. After the first couple of years you know making tailored suits one part of the day and a two or a costume in the music school another part of the day and so it was not the college experienced. I was expecting but it was pretty fun. Pretty difference mostly other college kids and when you came to new york you working in the fashion industry obviously but it was more on the sales side of things. Is that correct you know. I think i've always been pretty good. It's understanding what i'm good at. And i could look at my designs at that early stage and say you know. These are all just armani. Knockoff sword yoji knock offs and and i didn't believe coming from indiana and not having anyone to compare myself to an think that could be a fashion designer because i thought everyone went to fit in persons must be so much smarter. And so much. More bain and justice. You know mark cystic. Now that i've been in new york for a while. I realized i probably could have done it but i just had such high. I loved it so much that i didn't want to try and do something. I didn't think i could be great at could be good at with sales because i worked at the mall for all that time. My dad loves sales training and was very good person And writer. So i went into sales figure if i couldn't be desired i could at least be in that world and i knew to be something i could do. So yeah i started At bloomingdale's out of indiana. But then i got into Pomodoro i did sales and and did that for the first fifteen years elo and then gmt which is kind of like the precursor to the italian version of lvmh armani and a sco and a lot of big labels emanuel ungaro and then kashima which kind of like the japanese version of Helmet laying at simon goatee a and after that. I opened my own show rome where i wrecked young american designers which was really virus. My first real chance. I think i've always been very entrepreneurial. So matt nineteen ninety nine and that was my first exposure to really go into a lot of fashion shows helping these young designers their shows on like in those years ninety nine two thousand two thousand one. I think almost all the people that i were. I was representing. Were showing during fashion. Week was really in that scene very deep during that period just as complete side. Note to this once. We're in the after times we have. Eleanor lambert's entire archive. And you should come look at it sometime. Because it literally is the history of american fashion from like the nineteen forties the way until right up until the time of her death and it's amazing it has all the cody awards stuff in. It has all the. Cfda staff has all of her files that she kept. But as the history of american design literally told within that and then we also have oliver finley's fashion calendars to really so. It's like someone that. I had to call up each season and try and figure out where to help the designers get a spot in the show and like i said it was in even though this was nineteen ninety nine. It was all done by phone. she was looking at her schedule. And she say okay. Well you can have a space there in their space. Aaron you've got somebody else showing there so you can't do that so You know it seems unreal that even as late as that that this woman was running the fashion calendar and really kind of and everybody except that she was the one that was going to set the calendar and yes she was a real great new york character. And there's a brand new documentary out about her. That my dear friend natalie noodle and tracy Produced actually just premiered a couple of weeks ago at the nyc docs festival. But yeah check that out if you're through. They've already been on the show too so our regular listeners will know who ruthven is yes so in two thousand and five made a big change. Are you switch things up. Kind of pivoted your career. What was the impetus for doing that. And what did you do. I think it's it's pretty obvious. Everything was going great with showroom until two thousand one than two thousand one. Really kind of everything into a tailspin Stores weren't paying their bills. New designers are opening. And by that time. I had gotten pretty good at looking at designer figuring if they had a chance of really making it so we got a little less exciting and at that. Same time i had. My first daughter was born in ninety nine but she was really getting very cute. And i'd always loved photography growing up looking all the fashion magazines so i started taking pictures of her and then when the showroom closed low after two thousand one probably in two thousand two because things were so difficult then. We had a nanny for by then. My second child are two kids but she went back to honduras and kept saying. I'm coming back to never came back. And i kind of fell into the role of house. Daddy being the stay at home. Dad young which i loved it was. They said the best times in the worst times i didn't was such a type a. person. But how can you not love spending that much time with your kids and and helping them grow and explaining the world to them. And taking and i was taking photographs of them out of active love out of enacted waiting to capture this time with them. But when i get the images back it's can. I make this better Photographers i liked. Like steve mccurry. In these guys bruce weber. Versi all these guys and Really would look at their work and look at these little photographs. I was taking a little snapping point pointing step camera and trying to figure out how to make them better around two thousand five still just being a taking photographs on my own for fun. Kind of saw this whole idea of blogs coming up and how people were putting images with taxed and it was almost like sports talk radio. That likes to listen to where you know. The host had a strong opinion. People were calling in to agree or disagree. And i thought well that's basically what blog is and so that was kind of the idea of the sartorial list. I thought i had a fun name. There was different. It wasn't you know houston street style that it had a slightly kind of romantic Obscure name that. I felt would make people curious that they would click on that. Click bait way before click bates. A lot of people thought it was like satire. they weren't sure what it was wordstar. To'real was not so popular at that time and Really i did is just kind of gu. I didn't put my name on it in case in case it was horrible mistake but it just took off. You know. I think growing up being interested in both menswear and womenswear the history. Abbott and contemporary designers. And everything else. I think i had a very unique one of you in menswear and womenswear so i started off doing men's just because i was seeing a lot of guys on the streets that i thought looked really chic but not really captured in the magazines and then quickly after that i started putting more women in it too because that's all my work background. I've always said that i've i've shot men on instincts and women on experience and it literally just took off from two thousand five. It just was a runaway train. I was hard to rain. This episode is brought to you by kiko. The holidays fill our hearts with wonder for kids from one to ninety two. There's no gift more wonderful than the joy of curiosity discovery. And that's exactly. What kiwi co delivers each month. Kiwi sends hands on science art and geography projects right to the doorstep of the world's leading specialists and creativity and exploration kids so if your holiday shopping for a young innovator in your life give them a kiko subscription and watch them soar. Unfortunately kiko doesn't deliver via chimney yet but with kiko. The magic of opening a holiday gift doesn't stop for the holidays. Just choose a crate for their age and interests slipped a monthly plan and in two days their first crate will be on the way whether seeing the robot walk their rocket launch or they're painting hung on the wall these magical moments inspire a lifetime of funding learning each kiwi co creek comes with everything needed to get started right away with different crates for kids of all ages. Kiko offers something for every kid or kid at heart on your list and there's no commitment so you can pause or cancel anytime get fifty percent off your first month plus free shipping on any crate line with code. Iheart akiko dot com. That's fifty percent off. Your first one. At k. I w i c o com promo code. Iheart if you're looking for more great reporting about design fashion and culture you should check out a new podcast called invoke. The nineteen ninety s covering a conic decade invoke the nineteen nineties a new audio docu series that revisits a pivotal moments in the ninety s culture. Through the lens of fashion from slip dresses with army boots to colorful tracksuits and minimal pantsuits vogue experts and star gas highlight the stories and fashion history. That reflected this new era of connectivity. He oh here. From calvin klein donna. Karen marc jacobs isaac mizrahi and many many more as they share their memories and commentary on how the decade was on mike any other presented by winter and hosted by hamish bowles. This podcast examines. How the ninety s sparked a cultural fusion that continues to shape our world today which you know we love on dressed and why. No one is exempt from fashion so listen subscribed to invoke the nineteen nineties. Wherever you get your podcasts. You have been called the first modern street style photographer but of course i'm not m you know you love history just like i do. Oh we have a shared love of fashion history. But of course st salvator griffey has actually existed for quite some time. So from the c. Burger brothers and shock all three tc. They were both snapping kind of these scandals shots of of fashionable women during the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. And then you fast forward to a little closer to where we are. Now you also have people like jamaal shabazz. How i was really lucky to interview a few years ago and also an rbis in the nineteen eighty s that. We're kind of doing the street style thing too. So i'm curious when you started this artery a-list did you actually of sit down and look at this bigger a broader history and. Do you have any favorites of these photographers. I didn't really discover. Amy rbis until later but style photography's somewhat similar to what i do. But she was shooting for us back in there in the late. Eighties early nineties. All through the southeast on Later discover. i'm jamal until later. But the influence in an abstract way for me with someone named august sander general. Alexander out is a german photographer and He wanted to capture germany. All the different kinds of elements of life in germany from nineteen thirty until the war broke out and so he's got bakers people from the countryside. All these different just a really incredible cross section of of germany at that time and At tro actually did an ad campaign kind of based on his photographs. Grab or specific. Look and berry. It's probably the closest digital influence that i had because people were standing very still very shallow background. They're really looking right at the camera so he was probably the the most major influence digitally but then i was also really influenced by different kinds of photography. I think because. I didn't i never considered myself tog refer. I never studied or trained. I taught myself But i didn't really take it that seriously. And i didn't read him of becoming a photographer of the way i would have loved to a been a designer I didn't feel Trapped by anything. I didn't feel. I would've been. I was training to be the next armani Or something and so. I kind of took little elements from Bercy on the romance of palo reverse see the kind of athleticism And sexiness of bruce weber mixed with the serious kind of almost painter. Lead way that's August sander would photograph. Or even someone like steve mccurry who had become friends with in the last couple of years. I remember sitting at my chair in in the living room in in chelsea where i lived at the time and looking at his book and i thought oh my god this guy has the most incredible job just gets walk around the world taking pictures. I thought i would like that to be my job. And do not mccurry's work for national geographic and the girl with green eyes and everything so even though what he shoots is not a fashion. You know it's just beautiful. The way he captures people in their environment you know again. It's abstract things like that. That are the little up laments that creates an individual person's vision artist vision so like a lot of streep topography in the past. People would kind of the person put him up against the wall and it was just about the outfits and shooed kind of in that way. Where when i started more like august. Sander like steve mccurry. I put them out on the sidewalk. So you could get a stinks at not only what their clothes were but also the street furniture at that time. The sign the signings of the buildings. The cars I wanted to have low context in the image so even just something like that is a subtle thing but it creates a a major influence. Because it gives you. It's what made i think my photographs look different. And so not. Also people like helen. Levitz big influence broadside french photographer on dino So i think more than fashion photography kind of traditional street. Photography was always my biggest influenced. But what. I know is fashioned. So i've kind of figured out how to created to look like street pataki but almost like a costume designer hick people that i think they're close helped. Tell something adds something to the image itself and gives you an idea of who they might be up saying you know who they are because who they are you can never know who they are when you're just taking a of them in the moment on the streets And that's why. I don't really consider its Photo journalism or something. It's more. I think it's more romantic. It's more artistic than that. You know it's been in imagination of who this person might be. I mean you haven't very distinctive style as well not all all of that like goes into that development of your style by the way i don't know if you can see right here over my shoulder his lartigue yet. I mean i loved his. You know he was never discovered until like the seventies by adot so he did all this work but he did. It's kind of Anonymously no one ever really saw the work until he was weighed done with that. And then over in this corner for the people on radio. I'm showing her out through zoom video. The podcast but that's august. Sander was one of the first photographs i ever really loved and really informed by and then over my shoulder here. I'm not can see maliki. Sediba photograph of the two dancers. It's probably as most famous work but You know those images really not only inspire me visually but you know when you know their work and you've really looked a lot of their images. It really reminds you just keep going out every day and trying to shoot and even though it's more difficult right now with pandemic to go out and shoot every day when things get a little more back to normal you know. Those are the images that i look at each morning. Anything all right got to go out in in terms of you know you being called the first modern street style photographer I would argue that that merger of the images plus the blog aspect because all of a sudden you have this immediacy of access to these images. you know people on the street. You know an i would say that. That's kind of what turns this this modern corner your initial concept for sartori a-list the websites of the blog. And i'm helping. You can tell us a little bit about the ears. Why agree. I think whether the things that makes it unique is that people like august. Sander didn't get immediate feedback. You would take the photographs even sure because it was his own project if those were also really seen very much during his time really. The only one that had more immediate feedback was probably the brothers. Paris is it was a commercial enterprise and it was done in magazines but they people weren't really getting those images and sharing them the way they do on the internet. You know so. I'm really very happy that i could take those photographs. Shared them immediately. Then you have a contemporary dialogue between the people seeing those images and that's captured so actually recently. I kind of changed the format of the blog to be a little bit more like photographers websites butts. I made sure to archive the earliest Elements of the blog Because i do think it's a historical document. You look back. What time and see you know how people were feeling about for for was really a- a big thing when abrode take a picture of someone in for people would get really upset. Other people were really defend them. There was a moment in fashion. Where corinne roy felt kinda popularized this kind of way. Girls would stand with their pigeon toed with their toes kind of in this kind of broken doll and all the girls in new york in paris can stood in that same way and the comments. It'd be like why are they standing with their feet pointed in. That's so weird. Know even things like flip flops. You know. I didn't think flip flops were such a divisive thing. But oh my god you take a picture of someone share wearing flip flops. In the city people lose their by do think. That's a really great unique elements that the blog and that social media captures right. Now whether you like it or not and i also made sure to people had to be Decent after agree with what the person was wearing that they had to say it in a decent wedding which is not what the internet is. Now i still insist on that in my social media have to delete or block lot of people but you know. I think it's still great that you can have this kind of conversation. You can see what people are thinking in this moments now. We have no idea when lartigue's photographs were seen at that time. What those people were thinking. Or or i guess maybe we could capture any abuses a little better but i think that was a great element of that and then the idea behind the blog initially was just almost like i was saying like sports talk. Radio was just to put the photographs up there and kind of hear what people were saying. I knew that blog international. So i didn't want to write too much. Because i didn't want people in japan and other places to feel that they were missing out on a lot of the important element of the blog. So i didn't write that much. But i wanted a place where people could see different kinds of images different kinds of style and be inspired and the the text part of it was just kind of a nice add onto that but it was also done a very selfish way. I didn't really. I wasn't going out trying to show what people wasn't trying to capture anything. Specific wasn't trying to say. Oh look at this person wearing prada. That's that new product shoe. I really wanted to surprise people so it was really about that. Mix of you know. Maybe one day it's going to be an old guy from china on the next day it's going to be a girl from berlin the next day. It's going to be a you know someone from shanghai wherever that's how my books look. I think they're very kind of all over the world but I really want to challenge. People talk a lot about abstract inspiration. That doesn't have to be so literal and people don't have to be dressed perfectly. I talk about in the first book. This idea being visually greedy that. When i take the photographs you know. It's not about saying whether that person is right or wrong in the way their breast. I put the emphasis on me. you know. what can i get out of that. You know so just like designers and designers say this all the time they've not looking for inspiration for people that are perfect. They're very good kicking one or two things from a look. I like that color combination. I like that silhouette. I like this. And then turning it into something. And that's how i always grew up and so i'm always a little surprised on social media when people are so much about making someone right or wrong but that was always the initial ideas to give people place to see things inspiration in a different way and i think it really kind of opened your eyes. When you've got a skateboarder kid in one photograph in the next photograph is a guy who's very tailored. I think it does challenge to say. Oh well that guy that's tailored you would think of is kind like a boring suit. Looks just as cool as skateboard guy. So that's that was kind of the initial idea and in your image selection and the books. I like the juxtaposition that are they're very clearly sometimes So would you choose subjects. Do you have very specific things that you look for. Of course as you said when you shoot men. It's more intuitive. But i'm i'm just curious if there's little points that you're looking for like a bounded when you go out and you're looking for something you're going to miss something that you were expecting to see and so i'm very picky you know. I am very picky. I only get one or two on a good day. Maybe four photographs One photograph or zero So i'm very picky. But i'm not prejudiced or not Creek determined on what i'm looking for. I like to be surprised. That's what makes me go out every day and shoot. I like to be surprised by something. So i really have no preconceived idea of what i once and i think it's one of the reasons the photographs especially of different kinds of people really resonates with the audience because like i have a lot of photographs of really elegance striking older women. It's not because. I want to go take photographs of striking older women. But if you see one you can't not try and take that photograph so it's the fact that i really don't have any agenda. Jones have any point on trying to prove. I'm just trying to share what is surprised me I think that's what makes it more genuine. You know without having to not trying to do something but it just kind of happens organically. That's where i think you feel. The sincerity of the photographs will and as you mentioned earlier. You shoot both men and women which is a little bit atypical. For other street style photographers photographers. Focus on one or the other. Is there a difference in the way in which you approach shooting men versus women will. You're like i said. I approach him because of my background. I learned how to what women like to see. What inspires them. You know through experience working a loving fashion niro. Since i was eighth grade and working in the business for fifteen years in new york so i find that really On experience and men. From what i like to see or what i know is good. You know air. Few of the guys that i shoot. Would i actually wear those clothes. But i can tell you know that guys doing what he does very very well but a lot of times also big photographic element in the sense stats. You know some things are just too subtle someone wearing very subtle jil sander. You know Unless it's really great proportion mix or really subtle color. You know it does give you something really to grab to give the i'd grab onto so lots of josse something where the person's nicely dressed but it doesn't give the is something grabbing to grab onto the photograph so really. I'm not really looking for a particular thing. But i'm really looking what's gonna make a great image that someone can look at and say wow. That photograph was about this. I just was redoing. My archives and tagging some things and find almost every photograph is should really be about one or two things you know and if you get those one or two things if i've able to communicate it it's pretty obvious what that is. Even though that's not the necessarily the focus of the photograph you kind of have an idea of what it's about the began today's meditation with the few sipping exercises to remind us. A little treat can go a long way so pick up your mcafee. Iced coffees close. Your eyes and deep sieben and deep satisfaction out a treat retreat at mcdonald's right now get mcafee iced coffee and any size and any flavor for just ninety nine cents until eleven. Am price of participation. May vary if you're looking for more great reporting about design fashion and culture. You should check out a new. Podcast called invoke the nineteen ninety s covering and a conic decade invoked the nineteen ninety s a new audio docu series that revisit a pivotal moment in the nineties. Through the lens of fashion from slip dresses with army boots to colorful tracksuits and minimal pantsuits vote experts and star. Gas highlight the stories in fashion history. That reflected this new era of connectivity. He oh here. From calvin klein donna. Karen marc jacobs isaac mizrahi and many many more as they share their memories and commentary on how the decade was unlike any other presented by inner winter and hosted by hamish bowles. This podcast examines. How nineties s sparked a cultural fusion that continues to shape our world today. Which you know we love on dressed and why. No one is exempt from fashion. So listen and subscribe to invoke the nineteen nineties. Wherever you get your podcasts so this this is an enormous question that i ask you next. And i bet more so than a lot of people in this world you have spent countless hours pondering this scott for you. What is the difference between fashion and style or is there a difference between fashion and style. I've thought about it a bit. Not over thought it. But i think what i've come to realize is that fashion is about having fun. It's not necessarily about your body. Look good. I think fashion is about fitting in with a a kind of group. You know like if you're really into fashion you know maybe someone that loves football doesn't really understand. It doesn't understand the difference between a breeze. Kind of person. Or a rick owens kind of person civic but I think fashion is about fitting into the group that you wanna be a part outs. Where style becomes more personal. You know it's about me and what my style is and so. I think the natural evolution for a lot of people as they grew up and they kind of where fashion to fit in with a certain group and as they get older they start to become more self confidence of what works for them and who they are and that fashion starts to evolve into a style. And it's really about them as opposed to you know attaching to a certain designer and their point of view. They really find who they are. And that's why they can find a lot of older. People are very stylish. They might not be fashionable. But they're very stylish and times is younger. Kids who can be very fashionable. Because they you know they don't know who they are yet and they might wear a cowboy hat with a football jersey with the pair big boots or whatever it is and and i think both things are really beautiful. You know that's really kind of a beautiful way of someone trying to express who they are or find who. They are really in the most realistic terms. I really think that's the difference between fashion and style is bashing is about you being somebody else trying to find yourself in style is when you found yourself and all of this involves work right and you have. You have said before that that you think that this notion of effortless chic is actually a myth. Why so why. I think people you know. I think the same people who write on you know on on instagram. Oh that person so effortlessly chic are the same people who want to do those five minute workouts. You know they think You know. I wanna work out but i only want to do it for five min. I wanna be in perfect shape but i only want to do it for five minutes. They want to believe that you can be. You know very fits or very chic without putting effort. And that's just the moshi people i know. It's not that they overdo it and it's not that they spend hours getting dressed but they usually spend A lot of time trying to figure out what are the right things to buy. You know they put the right. They put the right amount of work in in the beginning. So yeah maybe when they get dressed because they've rated their closet in their wardrobe so well they can almost put anything together but it's because they already know themselves so well so someone like jimmy. My wife you know go. I think is very very stylish. Not that she spends every day could together outfits that are really different but she knows. She has color palettes that she likes. She knows so when she's buying she knows there's a particular kind of blues that work really well for her or particular shades of green and how to mix those colors so when she does get dressed. It's somewhat effortless. It's the shopping in the fine dean and very beginning of the process that does take a lot of effort and a lot of people just aren't willing to do it. They aren't willing to buy something. And taken to the taylor and make sure it fits well and make sure that it's something that's going to last. You know they just almost want this idea of like. Oh i can just this on look beautiful. That just doesn't happen very rarely. Maybe if you were you know a super top high end model or something like that. You look at anything that works but for most people. That's it doesn't work at. Tailoring is ki ki ki ki ki every single pair of pants. I own to be tailored guy altered or almost everything. Even some of my boxer shorts you get you long. So i do feel to going to the taylor with my boxer shorts leg. You bring those up like an intriguing there you know it. It makes me feel comfortable in michael and it makes me feel like they're my clothes now so that you know they've been fit for me. Which only downside of that now is this whole resale culture Which is great. I think it's great. You know these. The grail ends the real real and of all these different kind of presale sites. Nick is a great thing to bring more Use in life out of the clothes. But i always feel so bad if i send something in. I don't do a lot of it because you know. By the time the sleeve short and the length of a shirt short and everything else they could make a little hat out of the extra fabric. Or i feel like making sure that when they posted they they put down while these sleeve from the original has been shortened to winches or whatever but i still think it's more important to have closed the pressure I want to ask a very gauche question. Really quickly about money so in the earliest years of the blog. Were you monetize in the site. And this kind of parlays. Like a bigger question. That i want to ask. Which is that outside of the blog during the two thousand and you were also doing quite a bit of work in advertising and also editorial work so so how does this all fit together in in the sartorial brand do do you have any favorite partnerships or collaborations that you worked on or have worked on yet will in the beginning Because i had a business background. And i had two young children that i had to make sure that they had everything they needed. I really worked hard for that. But at the same time i knew that i couldn't make it to commercial. I couldn't lose what i have. And so at that. Time it blogs you made money from having Displayed advertising on the on the blog or on the web sites and it was about clicks. So i had so much pressure in the chew. Because you've got paid. By how many clicks and so you wanted for good content but if you were just putting a lot of contents you get a lot of clicks you knew i would lose it so i had to be really out there a lot a lot just trying to find good images and being very picky And not putting things up. Just because i thought. Oh maybe this will get some clicks which is kind of what happens now with a lot of websites so i had like american peril signed on early and a lot of other on people. I was doing the sales myself. And then at some point style dot com which became vote dot com. They read. I was the only person outside of their family. They did sales for and then when they started to close down. They gave it back to me and So it was a mix of like advertising on the sites and then also because the sartorial was very hot. it's a lot of brands. Wanted me to shoot campaigns for them so like dkny. I remember that was my. That was only the second organized photo shoot. I ever done. The first thing was for l. mat l. u. k. And that was really cool. But like i was not used to shooting with people around. 'cause i was always by myself so they would get the models ready and i would say okay. Everybody stand over here. I'm going to go around the corner with the model and shoot just in her. Because i don't want all of you throwing off my by and so it was like that for dkny but a hundred times bigger. It was just such a big crazy production and then you know like shots on stuff for paris. Vogue for italian vogue. I was very good friends with franca sahni ins but after a while i realized Especially with the editorial. That's as much as i love magazines as much as i love those magazines. That was not the way i loved. Shoot fashion especially when you shoot a Address because this person was an advertiser or whatever and you know. I think it was. Maybe when. I was shooting something for italian vogue which magazine. I taught myself photography. On and that i loved i had in storage all issues back to nineteen ninety-four forever. I was like why am i not enjoying this. And i think it's a you. Don't get the immediate feedback. You shoot it and it goes out the magazine three months later. You don't hear much about it. But i just didn't like the pressure you know trying to shoot something to make somebody else. Happy like a boss where i knew what it would take to shoot to make my audience. Happy to make me happy. So after a while i just sides do less of that and by that time things kind of switched from blog more into instagram and because instagram is more about doing collaborations with brands. It was less about clicks. Really it's not about clicks at all I found i could shoot less. I could be even more and more picky and you know now. I never feel the need to coast you know. I never really lose anyone. When i don't post and depending on the photograph or what you say sometimes you gain a lot of people. Sometimes you lose a lot of people but You know that's one of the good things about instagram is that you can be very very picky a lot of people. I don't know why they post so much so much. That just feels like they're always in your life. A creates noise kind of visual noise posted a post in like. Oh so many stories of this where you know like during the lockdown. I was not happy. I know you were not in a good mood. This was not fun. And i think maybe i'd go three weeks without posting something you know maybe do some stories or something but i do think instagram. It's destroying things with. Instagram is dance. I feel anyway. I post something. I really wanna share. I'm just a second ago. You mentioned Partnering with brands. And i want to ask you about one specific project because this sounds like you had a ton of fun working on this and this is what i referenced earlier. Back to burberry in two thousand nine. Will you tell us about this project that you did for the trenchcoats. Yeah that was pretty cool was the first kind of social media ad campaign. The big brand ever done with someone like me but someone from from the internet and surprisingly. I don't think angela aren't even though she was there. I don't think she was very involved. I didn't deal with her that much. You know i'd see her at shows and stuff. And but i don't even know if she was super that involved at the beginning of its and to be honest. You're one of the things. I'm very proud of is with most of these projects whether it was burberry or other ones have come a long way. Ganz and a lot of these. They would just send me the clothes. Because i trusted my fashion point of view. They trusted my casting. So like burberry was the first example of that. They just sent me. I would tell them. I'm gonna be in venice. Just send me a bunch of trenchcoats in venice and all shoot it. And i'll send it back to you. And they said okay. And so i was gonna i was. I was supposed to do one hundred. Or i did a hundred images and it was literally just saying i'm going to be in berlin. I'm going to be wherever i was going at that time. I would just tell them ahead of time. They would ship a bunch of transcripts. There and then i would just cast it for people that i saw as i was in the town in the city. Whatever and Casted i styled it. The whole thing by myself which compared to most of their campaign show. Which at that time. Were mario testino. Craig seen these huge productions you know millions of dollars stylists and hair makeup the fact that it was just me doing everything with just the subject was pretty cool even my daughter. I even my older daughter. Isabella shot her in a trench coat when we were on vacation in talk but it was really son but also very challenging because it was still early in the process and it was a lot of pressure and try and find people and to find people. Die talk right. 'cause burberry had some people that they really wanted me shoes that maybe more known in the uk at the time. And i didn't really wanna shoot him. So i think that was the only tricky point is really having to say i'd find nothing charming about that person but other than that. Yeah i mean it was really fun. it was just. It took like three or four months. And so i was very ready to that done by the time i project wrapped up. I did another one with exotic one time That was supposed to be like six month project and it turned into a two year projects because it went well and that was called faces by the story list and i'd do portrait's of people wearing optical glasses and it was literally for two years to find two people every week to take a portrait of but same time it was kind of fun and you know definitely kept the money coming in to pay for all the other things going to india during a book on india during these other things. So you know. The commercial side is Like anything in fashion. You know it's it's the thing that pays the bills and hopefully you do it in a way. That's a beautiful and still keeps your standards. But what i found is most of that stuff. People are gonna forget in a month the worst six months. It's the working putting books. It's the work that you keep on the website and the the work that you promotes. That is what the legacy will be. The legacy is what you will make the legacy be and So like i'm proud of that burglary stuff but the most most of the other collaboration stuff the most fun things have been like. These trips mood gone on with different car brands or talian brands that we go on a boat ride and they just they just ran counter. Something scott thank you so much for joining us and do not fry dress listeners. This is just part one of our interview with scott part. Two of april and scott's conversation is actually coming on thursday this a two parter episodes so much more to come. There is so much more to come and we. We had such an amazing chad that one episode which is simply not enough so stay tuned for the rest of our conversation and until then we will sign off But also please check out our instagram. For images of scott's work at dress underscore podcast. You can also head over to his instagram. Which is at sartori a-list or his website. Which has the story list dot com to find oso many more images and cast on a personal note at the top of the episode. I mentioned my fantasy of like when i made it. Well i happened to notice that on this arch royalists current web page on on his dot com site. Three rows down right in the center is a photo of a really lovely woman in black jumpsuit. Have to be. I own the exact. Same jumpsuit from local designers. So what does this mean. I don't know maybe a girl likes to think that tiny bit of her dream came true and on that note. That does it for this week trust listeners. May you consider the influence of street style. Next time you're pondering getting dressed thursday's episode as we mentioned cart. Two of our conversation with our toilets and of course we love hearing from you. Also if you'd like to reach out to us to suggest a topic for future episode you can do so by deeming us on instagram at dressed underscore podcasts or emailing us at dressed at iheartmedia dot com. 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FOF #2778  Tales of a Male Supermodel

Feast of Fun

57:57 min | 1 year ago

FOF #2778 Tales of a Male Supermodel

"In the late eighties and early nineties supermodels reigned supreme and among ranks was Rico Marcello who with his tall muscular body and razor sharp cheekbones became the object of every gay man's desire desire after appearing in ads for Calvin Klein's obsession for men and Davydov's cool water even though he was lusted after Rico wasn't exactly exactly in love with being a model he was ready to leave the industry but then something happened changed his life forever today male supermodel Rico Marcello who now goes by his real name. Rick Gauri joins us to talk about his amazing career as a Calvin Klein model his Panther Tattoo and why modeling isn't as glamorous as it seems. I'm Fausto Knauss Mark Zalin and this is Feast of fun Feast. The fund is made possible because of fierce fabulous people just like you go to face the fun dot com slash plus an access thousands of legendary shows with the world's top queer artists and entertainers. Today's fees define is also brought to you by better help dot dot com slash fun. Is there something that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals better help online counseling. Is there for you connect with your or professional counselor in a safe and private online environment thousands of licensed therapists or right now waiting to speak with you. You can get help now on your own time an at your own pace schedule secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with therapist licensed professional counselors who specialize in depression anger stress anxiety relationship sleeping trauma grief self esteem. TV and VCR repair okay not really but we're just saying that SEC- of you're paying attention family conflicts LGBT matters. If it's weighing on your shoulders they are there to help you best of all. If you're not happy with your counselor for any reason you can request a new one at anytime at no additional charge. The service is available worldwide on your desktop mobile web android or IOS applications best of all. It's a truly affordable option feast. If I'm listeners here's get ten percent off their first month with Discount Code F. U N that spells fun so why not get started today go to better help dot dot com slash fun and quickly get matched with a counselor. You'll love. That's better help dot com slash fun until you have to hear me a EH wreck wreck wreck. I'd have you crazy when they did that. Sorry Life's get get Rick Rick Rick. You've ever it's an but actually one of the funnier things is when. Zule lender came out in the few people that like did know me. You were like you must be really offended. It did and I'm like no I think it's fucking hysterical and actually I could see male models doing the whole guests. Thing modeling is an art. How dare you disrespect me of its gas can have a cigarette in the late. Eighties Model Rick Gory was considered to be one of the the world's most beautiful men working under the name Rico Marcello tall muscular body captured the imagination of ad campaigns and for Calvin Klein's obsession for men and Davidoff cool water marquee. You probably had rigorous photo clipped and blessed. I used to subscribe to g q and so yes those photos of you on the swing with Cindy Crawford you with your half naked body with the water running all over. It's I mean who can forget those so today thankfully rick. Gory is alive and well living in Chicago. He runs an advertising business and works as a waiter waiter on the weekends. Welcome to face the fun. Hi everybody what what what does your mind when you see the that photo of you with Cindy Crawford on the swing for Calico beans obsession for man God. My ass looked good in your own ass. No before we started taping you said that you almost have a associated of state about it that when you look at photos photos of you modeling and new youth it doesn't feel like that's the real you almost like. It's somebody else while it's not me. It's literally the shutter speed of a camera takes a picture of you and there's hours of makeup in twenty-three people running around and you know and that becomes what that is but I leave the makeup comes off and I go back to being the fat little kid with braces and glasses so when you grew up as a kid and you grew up in well well you were born in the United States but your family's from Chile no my mom actually from the United States and I we went there but Pinochet it was kind of creep so then they defected back so I actually grew up in America but I did have a short short toddler. Stay there in California in Chicago. No no no mom's actually from beverly okay to Beverly area and and what got you sort of like a into that physique at such a young Ed. You played sports in high was a football player in high school and you were good. I was I was good. I I don't want it to my own horn but I could toss the pigskin and you got a scholarship because of I did and so you move to California to study wolf farthest away from mom and Dad emplo football with them and you you weren't out right out and I was scared to death because in high school I was one of the biggest kids and when I got there. There were guys with next the size of my thigh. Oh Yeah I remember undergraduate in University of Texas at Austin. Getting on the bus and some of these football players took up both seats yeah now. They're going to be chasing me and you're looking for the right reason by the way but when you played football what position did you take. I was a cornerback quarterback the back so people don't know football. That's the guy who runs a lot. That's what guy who runs from the big guys with the next the size of my thighs basically trying to your you have to be very agile agile in order to avoid being actually put me in ballet. Oh interesting yes they put you in ballet because ballet artists are very good from one foot to feed to be toes and so you know like a lot of coaches believe in ballet as a way to help make certain quarterbacks running backs quarterbacks Arnold Schwarzenegger was famous for Studying Ballet in order to pose onstage as a bodybuilder but now fairness he ate the football because he thought it was a Ding Dong Long. Now you had an accident and broke my femur and you can play football anymore and that got you into out of school. I guess right no stayed in Sutil. It got me to have to pay for my own squad got a scholarship to play anymore so I didn't. They give you time to heal. I'll be like now so so the whole entire time technically I was in a cast was in it was in you know they jeff keep me in there was kind of a thing and I think they actually recently passed a law that they have to do it. Now like with athletics head injuries now you take care of them kids even if they can't play for you now but back then like the v day the cast came off. I was called the Dean of Admissions and scholarships cancelled. Oh that must have been heartbreaking was was and but thank God still had the football body so that helped me so how'd you help pay the bills. I became a stripper. ooh turned onto that breath. I actually worked in a club in a war-like the bowtie and not like cocktail waitress you know the whole song from Human League and she wanted me baby Tom than if a dancer but back on eighties dancers fell like flies lies because of drug use so when a spot opens up any of the actual cocktail waiters and bartenders too addition I so that's kind of how that happened and so you were working at the club as a cocktail waitress and then you started streaming five years later you don't you want me baby. It's a great song. I really love that song. I love to me from people I don't. You want me you a witches cynic cocktail bar when I met you so you became a stripper. Somebody came in and said you were hot piece of meat on a puts you people actually came in and said you're a hoppy. SA- meat. Would you like to do some mm photographs and then I'm again and but the right person came in and it was kind of what I did do some naked work oh really and and from that from from him and his contacts is how I actually got naked work. Just say that the swings is not the only place my own so somebody saw some of your nude photos and said hey this is exactly is good enough for print. I was a centerfold in a magazine and but I also was in like a lot of coffee table books and stuff like Mapplethorpe kind of stuff. Was it like playgirl or something or was it Um I'd rather not say you modeled for a lot of famous people including Bruce Weber yes and so like a lot of Bruce Weber's work. You're you're in as right and so do you remember your first big break where you were like realizing. This is going to be something pretty big. The thing is that I cannot do anything back as like you kind of ride that wave but you never know and I think that's for all celebrities. Do this not rate movie because you don't know you're going to get a chance to do something else and you're you know people got remember. My reference is frigging bills jury yeah. You'RE GONNA pay amy more money to take more clothes off or you're GONNA pay more money to do this or that but I never ever thought like I would be an actual ad campaigns and kind of like when I got this is this is nice but then you know life became hectic and all those things which came first the Davidoff cool water off off and that was taken at a beach and they're just pouring live with it was actually taken in a waterfall oh poor thing but I was in the water for so long that they couldn't even visine is no more so I like all my eyes eyes are closed because I couldn't open my eyes because they were beat reddened burning and that's part of the reason why your face is kind of like it. Can we get done now. What time of the day that shoot start it started at five am and ended at seventy m damn long days and I had to keep moving because of light lady. What do you do for twelve hours. When you're sitting underneath a waterfall fall an appointment I did they do give me a lunch break and let me have a tic TAC but other than that in a few lots of cigarettes you know been days cigarettes but so did they just delighting sitting there sort of exploring your body. What kind of like people won't modeling and I I think probably drag performers understands all what about shadow and light like sure I mean you have to look. I hit a nose job because my nose through too much shadow over by face from any kind of side picture so aw revised so I could see my other side of my face if I was like in like you know I was told by somebody who works in modeling. It's really it's about bone in structure it is but it's the bones that make the shadow that make it has the right kind of next next very important. You have to have a among back and then your big break. It's also really important for BJ's exactly and the big moment and the highlight you can argue of of your modeling career swing photo with since the most iconic and I think it's the most went around so was at that time was Cindy Crawford a big name Aamer. Oh yeah so this was like when they said you're going to be with Cindy Crawford Nude on a swing and I imagine why was mostly because we're both both from the Midwest and you're like this is my homegirl and and Bruce Bruce Weber took so you're telling me about what that was was like. I mean you're working with some of the biggest names the most iconic photographers of the one thousand nine hundred eighties who defined what beauty and what's sexiness was well people well. I you're talking about it in retrospect so even back then none. I can speak for me uh-huh. I can't speak for anyone else but no one really felt we were that. I kind of like you know. It takes time in history developing an icon. I don't think anyone felt that way. Actually at the time I don't believe in early nineties though a lot of those black and white photos did make themselves onto like merchandise and so early Gay Lesbian Bookstore is made a lot of money selling postcards or t shirts or posters with you. Know your body on it right right and you. Did you know you got paid what the thing is. I wasn't going to bookstores and all those things seeing any of that so like to me it. Wasn't you know I was so busy that I didn't have time to have a personal life or do this or do do that or go shopping or any other things. What was that day like. What was what was it like? We're on rougher the mall it's it's amazing and I mean I was nervous. Because as you know there was literally cloth between us for a very long time and we were young and please just sensation groins are thrust plants each other and that failure and your eyes are closed its sensation. So what are you. You're so you're not completely naked in that you have something coming your junk and does she have anything covering any part of her okay like a a little lost sock like like your genitals right. I did it's kind of almost like a new like a nude colored like G. String but it's so small that like it's a fishing wire and it holds this thing in place and was the swing the only image we're going for or they're having play no we did. We did a whole bunch like I don't know. If people realize models take pictures they take like on average. I getting paid by the hour. So of course you want a script Lotta pictures. I'll have to remember that you know making funny faces sneezing. They put us in different scenes and to see which one would be and you know. Calvin Klein was bleeding that was kind of shtick is pushing the envelope. I mean you know he did it. With Brooke Shields that was kind of his deal and had he gone to Cindy Crawford and said I want you to be swaying. Gal Player is the way I have no idea what their conversation was. Actually people don't realize like they often say this about a lot of things. People don't realize that breath. I'm just point and click like they just told me like all that stuff is handled by agents and managers and lawyers and all that stuff you just show up and then you're waiting to hear and make up and you know time is money kind of thing and they're paying for these sets. They're paying mm for your time and you know and you don't get paid to being here and makeup which takes about two hours so get paid for one or on the runway or yeah I mean in and the other thing I don't think people realize you have to pay taxes and all the countries your work plus when you come back home so their incomes are very inflated but their taxes is and everything else because they're paying multiple countries everything that it's really easy to just to make sure people know that. When did you first say the AD campaign run. I saw sawed. I I believe in and what must have gone through your head. You're like Oh my God. My life has changing or well. I was just connected. Acted like couldn't believe it was me actually that was my first thing and for a long time I kind of felt like and like I said I kinda like there's two different people. There's me the Nice homeboy you know could do as parents and all that stuff and then there's the other day looks like Fabio Rupaul talks about her drag persona on a lot of models and drag queens and entertainers especially Queer people around that time period as they call it the monster because it's attached attached to ego and it's attached their vanity and they describe it as a monster because if they allow that monster to take control they lose lose control over their own lives. I can attest that there was a good portion of my life. Even though smiling where I was a little bit lost in felt invisible and what did you do to counteract that while I spend a lot more time with my family and I you know have have a wonderful niece who I kind of look at it as my daughter so I spent a lot of time with her and try to get balance back and then you know eventually I started going out it in the community and you know meeting people as me again and you know kind of just left. Rico where he belongs and ghosts while they're just he's watch until now face the gentle what knew I had to walk on the runway off you fell you. Were I fell off the runway. I couldn't see nfl off where you so dizzy. I wasn't as two lights are so amazingly bright and like I you couldn't really see in your walk in and you're walking all can in fashionable kill now. You're six four something almost six five right and so it was kind of a hard sell to get you on the runway it was it was and because you know most bottles you they want to be the certain proportion around. I don't all right is that right. Well modeling follows Trans I and and I and I don't I'm not going to do some things but I don't think people realize sometimes in the course of female models life how many times she alters. There's augments her breasts to be for that. You know they want no small observing this year big loubser like it's it's driven by that. STAFA and I'm not saying I know anyone personally that I absolutely did that but you know it's it changes really rapidly. You know there's one you know in tonal Antonio Junior. We're like the hottest thing in the world and you're like five nine modeling. You know I mean so then. All the meals also be shorter and guess who took a year off okay Did you ever interact with some of these others. ICONIC models like like Antonio Junior. I think is a trump supporter and the the the besides Marky mark the other sort of uh-huh they face of Calvin Kleins underwear right and I didn't I I always kind of adopted job and when your job you go home and yeah I mean there was some certain parties and stuff that you have to show up to but I was just kinda like twiddling my fingers. Please let this be over. I mean I don't I didn't feel comfortable trouble in those situations. Did your friends think that you're sort of like you had been given this gift and this once in a lifetime opportunity and you're just like why don't you appreciate it does. Glamour and fun and drugs. You know I didn't grow up thinking I was glamour or it didn't didn't fit in like I I just I felt and it's the same way I I'll put it in a different way. when I go in which I could do a lot to a lot of stuff when I have to go to like an Ercole reopening or something and I'm standing there and all the people with their pouty lips and you know and they're like looking at a picture like artists was tortured in on all these things and I'm like I see a blue dot like you know like I just now. I just think a lot of that world is fake and pompous and I'm the exact opposite of that so I just never really like you know. I mean I know people. Will you know all your so beautiful and Blah Blah Blah and I don't know beauties abusing the eye of the beholder and I'm sure there's people think I'm really ugly too well now. You're beautiful on the inside work counts I always was I just hit it for a while. You are also hit that you were gay ah throughout your career and HIV positive that a lot of things was it hard to did you ever come out. I guess you you left modeling and then you came out I I don't. I don't know if I ever had like a coming out party because the assumption was with a lot of male models already gay so I don't know if I actually like I didn't have this big coming outing. My family knew you know both my sisters are lesbian so my mom and dad were stir crazy with all that but sake so my family knew and but I just never it was never a knight's still to this day. I do not identify as gay. I'M NOT GONNA say don't but it's it's just one small part of my life. I would think that the male model world would have been very welcoming or a very to to gay men and I'm not saying that people didn't no but it wasn't like it wasn't like you know I'm here. I'm clear they used to kind of thing. I Yeah I mean I think they technically the inner circle and that's what I think people don't understand about Hollywood or fame or fortune or celebrities and it's completely changed now because of social media but there's a code. There's a there's a reason why no one knew rock Hudson. was you know gave so long. Elizabeth Taylor knew he was gay. Males knew he was gay but they hold they'll secrets closely. You know Marilyn Monroe it clearly had some issues going on and I'm not you know making a diagnosis but they keep all that stuff very tight and that was a lot easier to do when there was to read sheets that are you know prying into people's lives versus now. It's like the whole entire world. Everyone's like all the time so no I it wasn't a matter of me not being gay was a matter and then you got like what I like to call your handlers and very they're concerned about your image and they're concerned about how much money they can make off you because it's a relatively short life so they definitely you. Don't be caught a gay bar. Don't you know have the Mormon girlfriend. Be Seen with you know I mean. That's definitely told you buy your handlers. Slight make sure no. I didn't have a fake girlfriend but I definitely make sure I would go out to a Barr with a beautiful woman on my arm and you know get ninety percent of the time she she she knew what was going on but she gets to go to a fancy party celebrities celebrities. She's happy to know it was it. was you know I don't know I wish I could say I knew and I think one of a really good example of that handling would be generous I you know when she had her show was in the nineties sure and like everyone like i. I think that the public thought that she wanted to come out that way. I don't believe I don't know I don't know her for sure but to show star ratings and money and her age and all that yeah it's time Morgan Morgan we're going to go this way and she goes along with it going to fricking experts and then what are your career for. How many years you know I mean that's why. I don't think people realize you don't really make those decisions alone like you. Use Your Council on all those things and then you can go okay especially when you're young. You're you know you're I don't have a lot of access to my parents at the time overseas your parents. We're living in Chile at the time no no here in Europe. I see my parents are living in the suburbs of what was your living situation situation like because I read stories nowadays about male models and how it's a rough life and it's like basically like for a lot of these models that are living fifteen of them in an apartment living and that that is true and you pay for your own flights and I think but that's where I think the disconnect where people think that you're living this wonderful amazing starace I started going on my carpet life and I mean and it's other industry people musicians they do that first video and everything's are living this life and broke and because they're not getting the money yet and no it's it was and I mean you know and the and once you start getting bigger tax you can afford Dino live with five people instead of fifteen and then go on but yeah there's like because Europe a lot of people back then. I don't know about so much now but like everyone to Europe to be a model. Everyone did and like you like literally. They're like hostels like one bathroom. Imagine thirty miles getting ready with one bathroom turned on by any of the guys that you were staying with. Oh totally totally totally. was there any kind of hanky-panky sound bad to me yeah. Yeah we like. Lois shoots shoots. Take a long time. I'll meet you in the bathroom and five minutes. It was more it was more actually like for me. It was more there is that I am not going down some me too movement rabbit hole but there is a lot of people who are in positions where they can you know get you exploits you because they hold your career and their hands and they know it and I mean there are full circle moments because then you become famous and then McLeod aw you know remember ten years ago when you made me do something well guess what you take my picture unless you do something and it was kind of reward. That kind of thing was but you know and the whole time. I'm thinking you're going hot. Italian photographer do it anyways like Tian. Do the power thing with me so the way the fashion world is portrayed prayed and movies like zoolander or devils wears. Prada is probably tame and it's actually even more wild or more vindictive matic matic. I don't think so as much for the guys but I definitely think especially in the I don't think modeling today is what it was in the nineties. I don't think it wasn't the two thousand thousand wasn't the nineties nineties was kind of like the iconic you were at the height of the monologue supermodel thing which I do not believe with Janice Dickinson corning that term Tom by the way I don't know. I don't think it was her. I think it had something to do with Cindy. Crawford and being only twenty million different covers the same. Who's the person that I said Al-Gaddafi for million dollars. I think it might be I think it might begin to consider. Maybe Linda Evangelista yeah you you know or you know but I don't know you ever feel that way. You're like I'm not gonNA never never never never and people don't realize like they see the finished product but they have no no idea the production that goes into getting this project and it's very for the most part professional and there's women with clipboards and you know I mean it really really I don't i. I think that people think that like once. You're in that industry or any acting music. Whatever comedian like your whole life is red carpets like gets how the Kardashians monarch portray it to you yeah. It's people always say God fossil. You're so beautiful. You're so handsome. I'm like I take one hundred photos and I. He's the best one the worst one and there's face up in photoshop ten. Oh Yeah someone I'm on a Q. U. retouching photos on like you know what I'll post. Your photos not retouched. How would you like that. I totally everything goes through face. You say my current facebook photo right now. When I'm in China quasi drag at camp retreat like totally step one now rick. Tell me about the day you found out from your doctor that you were. HIV positive I actually found it over the phone. They called. They called me. That's unusual shaw devastating and I am. I am very fortunate. I found out right away. My t-cells were fine. what year was this eighty nine so that I was actually July thirty first one thousand nine hundred when a lot of HIV positive people felt that hearing that from the doctor was a definite no he actually said if you live five here's you'll be really really lucky and I'm fifty one so shame on him and I think that's really horrible any twenty year old kid twenty one year okay now. It's just horrible herbals you. How did your life change after that while Sunesson need to make money for one and I think that that definitely plays the reason why I'm so just connected from from like the fame fortune the feeling that way because I had so much other things going on my head and what should have been the best time of my life was actually the most crucial because now I'm adding a Simone GonNa find out is going to be in the national enquirer Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. I was like you know a a raw nerve ending all the time and there was a fear that it would hurt your ability to make money into Jin have healthcare. You're just struggling to make ends meet so you could just get to compare the. Da Think he's Ichi came Monta but eight thousand dollars a month and I appeal seven times was as effective Madonna Madani. I'm still here so I'm going to say yeah but I think that you know the damage. It does your body in particular. I think it screws up your might. A Andrea Pancreatitis for people that don't know is extremely painful because what explained to the listeners what how so the for the first time it happened happened. Actually I was home visiting and I was with. I was with some high school. Franz you know hanging out my local my local pubs and I just I ate a big greasy cheeseburger. which kind of you know agitates? That's tough because when you have to make your pancreas make enzymes. I guess I'm not trapper John. MD So I'm not going to go there produces insulin it produces insulin but he also says enzymes and then all of the enzymes from your liver your gall bladder. Eh Pancreas are on one tube that goes in your stomach what happens pancreatitis is that it swells and clamps the tube so all those enzyme. That should be eating steak. You just are now eating you so the so the first time it happened. I literally at my poor father and I want to make sure that I don't want it to go on with dark thing but I was home. It was nineteen ninety you three and a got home from my dad and I welcome all night like I could not move was excruciating pain and my dad called the ambulance and they wouldn't take me to the hospital because you're a chevy pumping so my father was considerably smaller than me. I get the hike from my mom's side. was trying to give his car and brought me to the hospital and my dad was like you know like a typical guy bill in the forties. I'll have emotion but I was literally puking up my own stomach lining if he makes it through the night and then the key called my friend my mom and my sisters were. I think they were visiting London and you know and and like my dad had to sit out the whole night with me like in a nine welcome. My Friend Sandy who I had the cheeseburger was she was there but you know when I when you would look down like my stomach looked looked like when that Aliens GonNa Come Out in the movie alien like my muscles were being like jumping from the pain. They looked like I it really looked like there was something crawling under my skin. Oh my God that's horrible and then it's got to be just like a crushing the here for a medical professional saying we're not gonNA take you because you're rich. IV positive yeah. I mean well. It's it's the second time it happened to me. Actually the first time was my childhood dentist. When we're coming teeth I mean I guess I understand you have three small kids ads and this kid's going to die soon. No no no my dentist when they went for regular check to disclose. HIV positive sort of wouldn't work on my teeth dentist so is the second time so that's the thing that people don't really grasp about people who were HIV positive ositive in the late eighties and early nineties that it was not a situation where even if they wanted to come out of the closet they could because there were denied medical dental cul employment all kinds of things that's a reason why so many people were chaining themselves to the doors of the CDC because there's so much misinformation and fear yeah and and and you know there wasn't a lot of help and you know the only the only reason that they actually started helping is because straight people started getting. I do believe that like I think they would have put off funding if it wasn't for like Paul Michael Glacier Lake Elizabeth Glacier and then down the road a little bit more Magic Johnson which you know I still that whole issue irritates me and Ryan White Small Young Kid yeah you I know like that brought such media and then the rest of America's Kinda like you need to do something like this. This isn't just the gay plague now you know and and I do. I think it's wonderful wonderful that you know. Elizabeth Glacier did what she did for all of us and she's like hey. I'm no different than him. I got it too and she really made a statement of America. Recall or the world about it doesn't matter how you get it. People are dying. I thought that was really important and you know Magic Johnson. I'm really upset about that whole situation Asian because you know rock Hudson they make this horrible lewd movielike. He's picking up people his corvette and having lewd sucks in his house so he was well he was but they made that really dirty and then Magic Johnson gets from Scranton Bells on women and he's he's the savior of HIV. I don't think people realize maybe they don't don't realize how unequal that was sure. They made a horrible movie about liberace and you know it's just like magic. Johnson gets into like oh great. You got it from a girl. Being positive person like that really irritated me. They're really really did and I'm glad because he put a face on it and got even more funding and made more normalized and I mean what he did was miraculous with getting it I just don't like the way that they portrayed as as these horrible people and you know even today okay I think they still stigmatize sexuality in many ways you know and you know what I'm six foot six and I'll go on the street passion so you burn up to call me back to my I ha I won't at the height of your career. You were hanging out in nightclubs very glamorous clubs and there must have been some really amazing moments there with like entertainers you know you're hanging out in New York City in Europe and I've been just two fifty four yeah. I'm aw and I it is amazing and it's so it's like a double edged sword. It's like at some point. I had to fit in like I'm one of these these people which I never thought I was so you can't you can't do it kind of stuff. But did you recognize. Did you see Madonna. I think would be the you you know like the one. I really wanted to do a lot of people when they first see Madonna. They're just shocked how little tiny belly button yeah she's a as you know she qualifies as a Little Person No. I don't think she does which is very scary. Petit me tiny woman she she she is but I mean that would be like like one instance but I wouldn't say like I. The whole vibe is like everyone has to show and be here so I mean I guess maybe people people made friends there but I don't know if I like. It's not like I was like mall again. I don't think today's society realize you're not sitting there with your cellphone. Grab a numbers and and you didn't have cell phones. You don't have your pad of paper and pad like communication. That way was so it was more like you would say like off your people call my people like It was really like such a different time than it is today. I don't think people realize so yeah. I went to the things and yeah I left home and I did meet a few people but it's not like I made lifelong long friends with very many of them either Bruce Va launch yeah. He's hysterical and you know I mean actually we. We proved it was like a house party. Just like I mean he was just Kinda like in the corner comedian like I don't think the model drunk I'm and five Martinez should be doing the comedy. Routine verse knows everybody but John. So he asked me showing my deck and I did and then he started being funny. Ah Through Bruce Falange you've developed other friendships with now through him but there is there is a specific we have the same birthday tapei and there's other celebrities that have the same birthday and Bruce's. You know push this whole. Let's do birthday facetime thing and I do always contact him on our birthday and I'm excited to see who's going to get into this and especially with technology. Now you can talk to everybody across the world so I'm interested in. I know Miley. Cyrus has the same birthday. Take me and him and I believe an acronym or that for I want to say he's from termed so you call Bruce and he was actually on a call with all at ah no no so I we the Party at Bruce vallance was writing something for Bette Midler and she called and then he he put her on speaker and we all Kinda had this fun and get drunk with Midler in London on the phone. If I were saying Bette Midler and I'm drunk I'd be like single. Rose say only been party. It was a it was an after party for gay pride. Oh wow he was in town. I think he was the Grand Marshal Yeah. Now you have a tattoo of a Black Panther on your chest toss about the tattoo so the Tattoo two I couldn't first off. I could not be treated as a model because I was the pretty one big big blue is all and blonde hair so and also the aesthetic it was different today like like Tyson Beckford tissues and he pulled it off but I was like the clean teen longhaired longhaired surfer would never put my body that was my persona but when I did walk the runway they said that I had an uncanny knechtel looking like like I was panther prowling for prey so that's kind of how that all started people call you the Panther on the run and you are from the what does the the Chilean rainforests and rainforest also people have called you a Glamour Yeah Glam Amazon yes. I am sure we can think certain drag queen for the title. Have you ever asked the people about that that title or how I haven't I you know I take it all in good humor and fallen legs zander and all those other things you know it's all in fun Murphy Zulehner to to the when Benjamin cumberbatch playing all lilly peed my pants laughing but people have written pretty well known songs inspired by your work as a model. Maybe also I mean I guess I guess in a sense models are muses to everyone else and I have to say. That's one of my favorite songs if we could you know songs inspired by models are so wonderful your wall but I think that people get inspired for different reasons. Amy Wine House House got inspired by pain and suffering. That's part of the attraction to your story in your life but also in Mobley in general is that you know we're seeing these extraordinarily beautiful people suffering to create this image. That isn't really early real. It's not it's an idealized image of what we want to look like and and what we think about our our bodies and ourselves when we by clothes fume. I do take responsibility. You know like I believe that supermodels and ninety s models get tagged with causing a lot of eating disorders and stuff and I do feel somewhat responsible but I want people normally eat big MACs i. It's a genetic thing. It's not a fifty one hundred thirty twenty so you ever had somebody go Rick Lick. You messed up my life because you're so hot and beautiful. I have never had you once. Say That to me. I've certainly not had anyone say to me like that because I don't go south of of Southern Illinois no I have not had anyone say that to me but I do feel that you know the people need to know that even models don't look like that in that picture like we don't wake up and look that way for one a lot of really really I mean I'm not saying that there are models who use things to maintain a super small figure or there's male models take you know testosterone enhancements announcing. I'm not I'm not saying that what I'm saying is that be happy the way you are and I'm so happy with plus size modeling and people being okay with it and you know and people who don't care with people spent as much money on therapeutic be happy with who they are as they do on trying to look like me. I I think they'd be happier years so when you look in the mirror today and you see yourself. What do you think I see I see I still like I mean I see like an aged man for sure. You know I do but I won't do. Bo Talks. I won't do any of that stuff. I did both talks wants Lonzo. It was a horrible experience for me not because they didn't look good but because you're telling a joke and you think you're making honey face but in reality you're just frozen in time. I there is no one laughing at my jokes so I'd rather be old and funny and wrinkly than you know frozen in time and being forever twenty one that was not a plug to that store by the way you were you know lifting weights and exercising a lot in your youth is do you exercise and lift weights today I do and I it's more. I'm not trying to get bigger or anything like that. It doesn't matter how many weights I left and how much I run on on the treadmill. Moskenes till sudden you know it's still heading south so it's not like you know. I mean yeah I don't i. I guess I have a six pack but the skins not quite as tightly as attached to as it used to be and I'm okay with that. I am totally okay with that is there there is their sex life better worse or different one of the things. I think about my sex life one one of the biggest problems with my sex life not that I have any problems with it but it's that my statue in general is intimidating so yeah maybe there is someone standing at the other side of the bar wants to say hi to me but they're like you know to do remember. You think it's from remembering me. I just just think intimidated by intimidated by the law by the size by the huge shoulders and and they're still six foot. I'm I'm six. I'm six five and two quarters and when we were preparing for the show I did notice that you no in in many ways you have been erased from history like you went to Google and said take my name down ticket as much as you want to take away of from your existence in in this career because people are because there's too many ugly people in the world that I'm not saying I know anyone personally. That's like some kind of been data but you know I have a family. I have you know my niece and an and as much as I I consider to be my daughter. She has two kids. You know everyone from my home. Town knows who I am so it's not like you can go anywhere with like a credit card with our last. That's not knowing all you know so. It's not you know I don't think you know. My legacy is about them now. It's not about me and I could care less of anyone knew who I was or not. I really could but why race it. Why not it's not a racing it okay. It's not a racing. I just don't think the whole world has to have access to my life and if they have access to my life is through facebook an idea to control the content and you were having trepidation about telling in your story today with us. I hope that you know that you don't feel like this is like sort of taking back. Some control you have about here it is. I'm anxious and nervous but you know I also see the greater good in it. Yeah you know so with that being said and what kind of advice would you have for a young person. I think considering a career in modeling stopped taking face L. Fees. You're not a model because you take a Lotta Pictures Telling Dakota York yesterday's guests because I was like don't do that. They love doing that. They love doing it and to be honest. There are models. I don't consider myself one but there are models. Just have that niche. I think Michelle pfeiffer would be a classic example of someone who has at natural pout. What why is it a bad idea to do a duck face which people don't know that as you're looking like you're about to kiss the camera pounding your lipitor? There's a couple reasons first of all it's youthful while the reason not to if you're trying to promote yourself and trying to catch the eye of someone they wanna see you know makeup. No pouty lips no nothing then they vision that for you and if they think on your lip Dolan Jackson don't you worry you know but you just feel that younger people. Dir they're concerned about lakes aches and all these things and taking these pictures and the it's pretending you live this fabulous life that they're not actually living and while the mechanics the same as when you're seeking the attention of a casting agent as you are when you're trying to get somebody a very attractive on dating hookup APP the thing is is that when you're when you're when you are trying to attract somewhat a mate today I guess has a better or to put it you do tonight and putting your best face and and do the couponing and where the right clone casting directors and agents parents need to see you stripped of all that so they can vision what you'll look like trust nines with their professional makeup artists and Dan. Whatever and here extensions whatever I'll get they're gonNA do to you if you're presenting them that already. You may be screwing up your own chance and don't you know because they feel like they're being manipulated so they don't want to consider somebody. I think they're being manipulated. It clouds their vision. They WANNA see the the blink cavas they don't. I don't know if they WANNA see so take more natural looking photos thing and again. I have not imparted. I know there's like all these websites that are modeling agency websites and all these things and people are posting all their things on there and I get it and it's like quadruple is it was in the old days. I understand that but the problem is it's also created for from my experience. It's also created a lot of people giving themselves. You know an inflated self worth that while you're doing that and I'm a model. I'm I'm on this website and among this website and I'm getting paid for. They're doing the work now. You have the sense of a plate. I'm Ahmad on your run around and I see like with the twin boys. Don't all the time you know like okay but you're not in order to actually be a successful model. You have to get paychecks that kind of thing and back in my day I I remember people coming up to me all the time with their glamorous. Remember Glamour shots with the Glamour shots photo. I'm a model a model. You took those at the mall well. I didn't say say that there's a little more to it than just taking a really striking picture wants like you know there's a whole industry. It's money money and can an agent so I but I think it gives people false sense of self I do. I I think all that time spent in doing selfish. Maybe I don't know reading a book or becoming more interesting or politics or any of those things might also Garner shop beneficial satisfactory feeling inside one cell phone. I don't know I kind of feel he's a lot of empty. Souls walking around shells but your soul your cup is full yes because I because I realized even in height of all that stuff like this is. GonNa and I'm going to have to be a normal human being again and and that's what we mean by beauty and the inside you know it's about enjoying and celebrating life and even like you know I have. I have a lot of good friends and a lot of his good friend of mine and always alert people good friends of mine and but watching them transform transform back is also interesting and it's helped me on my journey you mean drag queens putting just drag queens but just watching people transform and I've been been paying a lot more attention like that and just my friends transforming and you l. things that worried them like they're all like you know people turning forty the things they're all worried them and I keep telling you wait till fifty like you don't care you just don't care. I don't care what people I think. I looked like let's say I'm old wrinkly in fact I don't care and my aunt my responsibility and we'll see what you look. When you're fifty well part of it is I think people just hard to accept accept the word no when they're seeking out you know ambition or relationships. The most painful word has no and we've seen time and time again do Internati County. I'm Bishen. They're not seeking for example. There are seeking out fame late like I always I kind of refer to it like the remember those sold walgreens commercials like half the corner of happy and healthiness like they're like there's some intersection where fame and fortune resides and they're just gonNA take drive their car fire and author. They're gonNA make it there and then when they get there and they always bring up things I bring up people and I don't want anyone but teen kids at turn into celebrities. Okay I'm GONNA do it. Lindsay Lohan did fame and fortune to seem like a happy girl you. I mean the did she like. That's what you're promoting. That's what you want. I mean she got it a different way or you know she was a kid actor and ended up in these parties and the but you know Britney Spears do these is people seem like they're happy at fame and fortune and this is the only there's whole shows dedicated to make people teen idol Americanism and American that the whole show dedicated to make the show is to find new talent but it's really about being famous but I think for the people applying who do have talent oh and by the way it's about being famous and then when you're there you're currently yeah I was. I know you ice on that whole thing right back to you like no. I just want the paycheck so you know. I just don't think that people should be so concerned with do something you do. You like to do do something I love. Do It really well and if you really good at it you know maybe fame will calm but when you don't earn it and you just you know win some TV show or are you. Just keep taking pictures yourself until you were like some modeling agent town and they get you one little campaign like I don't know. Does it really mean the same to you. I don't know Rick I appreciate you so much. Sharing your story and your life with us and it's fascinating and we really just got the tip of the iceberg. I ah the tip the tip of your up to my knees. Would you ever consider modelling again. Somebody approach to I do get off. I know you're done with that. I'm first of all I mean. Let's face it. I liked like for now like there's so many new men's skincare lights and I have been approached for a couple of them and then I for one of them I did attach shot and then the photo shop until I was twelve years old does not me final approval or stuff they did the it was just attached shot so I haven't signed signed anything at that point but this is the kind of thing we're going for. I mean I have breast implants and relative plants well. No I just have really large urge pat and I'm like no. I'm like but your whole thing selling to me was like you. WanNa like this Olbermann German demographic so you WANNA use who I was because I am old and then photoshop me back time. Yang so you can make them believe that if they put this miracle cream on their face as they're gonNA like miraculously turn thirty years younger like it's that but the real thing is when you sign those contracts they own your and I'm done with people in a Ma. I bought they're going to donate. It's going to be in the bedroom. That's right. That's exactly right. We remind folks at Feasts. The fund is made possible because of generous onerous support a fierce fabulous people like you visit. Feast to fund dot com slash plus and become a plus member today because your contribution to this show is is what makes this show happen. We wouldn't be able to talk to fantastic people like brick and find out there interesting story about the pictures and things happening behind the scenes means. If it weren't for you yeah I'm really fascinated to know like how crazy and fucked up and wild all all these people that we just idolize you know and and part of it is like I look at someone like the the Calvin Klein muscular model the the mark not the other one who became a tony'll Antonius about the junior who later on became this Republican right-winger and it was just just like you know he's just he don't know which way is up you know he's like he's drowning in the bottom notion of misinformation this information and lies and deceit and he's trying to go to the surface that get some oxygen. He's going deeper and deeper but I know why why because once you're handlers are making decisions for you. You make bad decisions. Don't have the experience of making your own choices when you when you're eighteen years old and everyone's making choices for you you don't learn how to budget the things you don't learn a lot and I have to say you know I suffered so much in as a youth as Queer youth in in desiring and in hoping and dreaming of that stuff and you know it's okay not to look like the girls in the magazines but fortunately I do they all do. I'm sorry if you find beauty oppressive because I was beautiful. I used to be ugly anti use Pantene Sir. Thank you Kelly Yeah. Remember folks if you I looked more beautiful visit our store. FIESTA DOT com slash store and get a t shirt. Today I wear patriotic honey. You gotta be signed the scenes photos and all the tea and all the good stuff that doesn't make it on the podcast Patriots Dot Com Slash Feast of fun on Rick Gory. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Thank you for having me by the way

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Gottlieb - All Ball - 'Rich Paul Rule' Isn't Outrageous; Gonzaga Asst. Roger Powell, Jr, on Illinois' 2005 Title Game Run, Playing for Bill Self,

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

1:19:55 hr | 1 year ago

Gottlieb - All Ball - 'Rich Paul Rule' Isn't Outrageous; Gonzaga Asst. Roger Powell, Jr, on Illinois' 2005 Title Game Run, Playing for Bill Self,

"Take clay travis host of the out kick coverage podcast. Join me every day as i give you the nation strongest opinions on the biggest stories in sports if you're looking for a sports podcasts casts smarter original funny and authentic alka coverage of clay travis the perfect podcast for you i even recently launched a brand new podcast called wins and losses with clay travis which featured long form conversations with the biggest names in sports business entertainment. Listen on apple podcast or the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts cast up welcome in. I'm doug gottlieb a you are listening to the all ball podcast. Our guest in this version is roger. How junior who is an incredible coach. He just took a job with gonzaga last three years. He's been at vanderbilt previous to that. He was <hes> with bryce drew at valparaiso and of course you may remember him as one of the stars of the illinois team that went thirty seven and two and lost the national championship game in two thousand five. He traveled all over the world to play basketball. <hes> he's played flavoring an unbelievable list of coaches. He's coached under <hes> a guy who he deems to be one of the great offensive coaches in basketball and he has his dad was a great player in his own right and he kind of followed in his footsteps albeit illinois supposed illinois state so he's got a great journey. We'll talk about that. Let me quickly. Give you my thoughts on this. What i think is a non traversee in regards to what's called by some the rich paul role as you know the n._c._a._a. Made a basically a baseline for what you have to have if you want to recruit kids signed kids on campus that are underclassmen got a bachelor's degree. Gotta be member the n._b._a. As eight bed got to be clear agent for like three years and you got to go in and meet with the n._c._a._a. So you know the rules. None of these are tall tale tall asks. They're just not is not. I mean personally. I have an agent. I would actually like for him to have <hes> be a lawyer earlier. You know have a have a law degree. Let alone a bachelor's degree. Of course i want him to have experienced league otherwise they'll talking about. How does he know where i'm going to be drafted and the idea of going to meet with the n._c._a._a. Sounds like some drag a dark odeon storyline or or rule but the the fact is that if you're a member of the n._b._a. P._a. You have to know the rules of the n._b._a. But you don't necessarily have to know the rules in college basketball by going to meet with the n._c._a._a. Louis and say you do so you can't say head into. I wasn't supposed to do that right can't and then you have lebron james chiming in saying this is the rich paul rule. Look lebron. James is obviously a narcissist somebody with a narcissistic nick personality disorder characterized by grandiosity come on the king excess excessive need for admiration a personal disdain lack of empathy for other other displays arrogance and distorted sense of superiority. They seek to establish abusive and control others self-confidence. I i think that he thinks this is a big one self perception of being unique superior and associated with high status people and institutions bron james. It is one of the all time great players but the n._c._a._a. Isn't worried themselves with one rich paul who might sign a guy or to nina n._b._a. Draft they're concerned with the idea of guys that are underqualified misrepresenting themselves as qualified n._b._a. Agents giving guys advice which is bad advice because that's what happened how many guys stay in the draft because they thought they were told late first early second like well you know this thing happened that thing the best agents they have really good advice. Do you know why because if you go lower in the draft and they told you go undrafted. Most people usually fire their agent. That's what happens guys get. Deco undrafted almost all fire their first agent. Many second round picks fire their first agent because they thought late first. I early second you go late second round or you go undrafted. You're gonna fire that agent so a real reputable agent isn't going to lie to you. This is not even this is a very low bar so the bar is pretty low and the newsflash lebron and all of his minions in the media and on social media is this isn't about rich paul. Paul reps a guy in the draft no yeah by the way like like the the idea that rich paul is the reason for an n._c._a._a. C._a. Rule is when you think way too highly and way way too you put way too much importance on yourself which is kind of what lebron has done on in his narcissistic ways. He's not the first one to show player mobility. The brian james change teams twice both times when he was a free agent he didn't forces way paul george if anything has forced his way out and harder situation signing and being traded one year later. That's a bigger thing in the n._b._a. Then what lebron has done runs a great player he's done some interesting things and he's helped raise rich rich paul to prominence. The only trail-blazing he's done is for rich. Paul is for rich paul and that he's paved the way for a guy who's selling jerseys on the back of his car to being being a prominent and powerful agent the n._b._a. But for colleges to want to protect their student athletes and say hey just gotta make sure guys. Bachelor degrees been illegit agent agent met with us so he knows the rules. That's not a high bar. There's no more narcissistic statement than one that applies to all agents and assuming it only applies to your agent you know look if if you and if you combined it with what david griffin said to sports illustrated you start to see why everything david griffin said no matter how lightly he walked it back does appear to be accurate does appear to be accurate from this perspective lebron himself has said he's not the same animal about winning just at a different way. I have nothing more to approve the n._b._a. If you think the culture that lebron james brings to a team is good then. Why did that thing thing fall apart so badly last year why careering one out part of culture is do the younger players get better. Does the team get better season goes on. Do they ask the reason. The cavs were bad his last year in the regular season. They didn't practice you can't establish culture can't refine oftens. That's a really hard. Let's just go out and wing. It figured out on the fly and he felt unhappiness. I don't think magic's unhappiness was solely based upon lebron james but the first thing magic johnson said when he resigned was i want to be happy and be magic johnson again again. So this is who lebron is super talented un- unbelievable. The presence takes up the air in the room but he's a narcissist who's never been told no thinks so highly of himself. He thinks that he invented barbershop arbor. Shop talk on television. Even though there was actually a movie called the barber shop and there's famous barbershop scene and coming to america joe louis seventy the two years old right so while talented david griffin pay the picture that we know he loves to play at the end of the day he'll compete and win but he's not the same as used to be and it's not always that fun because not about building it just about creating a team that he can ultimately win with take the credit when they win win and not take the blame when they lose a now apparently the same goes for his agent and friend rich paul which is he thinks everything is about him including n._c._a._a. Rule that literally has nothing to do with him or very little to do with him. Be sure to catch live editions of the dugout leap show weekdays at noon eastern three p._m. Pacific on fox sports radio and the iheartradio app during my lifetime. I think there's probably let's see i'm forty three and so there's there's there's moments that you remember about the final four. They're special teams that are unique and one of those teams the fighting the line. That was an incredible team. They were the first team when they lost north carolina. It was a two thousand five national champs game in saint louis. I remember it because it was. I think it was the first time i was actually sent to cover which is kind of cool and i was sitting courtside extra michelle beedle as first time i met her and i said before the game she's like disease have any chance and i was like if they take like forty three's they got a good shot and sure enough. They took forty forty. Three's and nearly won the game and that team was really transformative in college basketball. One of the stars team is now assistant coach at gonzaga roger pal now. He joins us in the all ball podcast. How are you. I'm doing good. How about yourself good. <hes> i want to get to that fighting the line i team. I wanna talk about about your post illinois playing career but you're from j. town so look. Here's here's what i know about about joliette illinois k. I'll give you the short short quick version. My teammate at notre dame was named was named bell man burt jerry bell gay g bell and gary bell was listed. I believe it like six eight and he was at best six five but in today's in today's n._b._a. He'd be nasty because he was like an undersized for left handed long arms. Whatever but i rolled up to the coca cola all american game my senior year in high school and i walked in the gym and they set up as an indianapolis at the time is run by bob knight's son and i remember like i was excited because i'd sign a plate notre dame and gary bell was actually the highest rated recruit and i was like where's gary belt like right there like nano. No no that guy is like six four gary bell anyway <hes> and then <hes> yeah so that that's my first joliet memory. What was it like growing up in joliet illinois. Oh man joe. It's funny. You mentioned gary bell you know. He was definitely one of those guys that i grew up in g._i. Hi watching play and you know juliet is if the suburbs congo you about forty minutes away <hes> so you know you kind of have your own you know joliet swag you know because we go up to kaga you play against the with the us julian. We always enjoy it. We always had to shoulder but that being said we have to really talented players. <hes> you know in in the suburb area so growing up there man you know just you know it was just a form of fried and <hes> <hes> form of you and just trying to carry on a legacy. You know all of all the good basketball players that came from joliet. My dad was one of them. You know gary bill ty caller would have played at wisconsin. You know john ford david evans also kerry kerry kerrigan was from from joliet. He played julia catholic. Think as well so tell me about your bet your dad. Your dad was a great player at joliet central. How what what do you know about his career about how he played for my dad. Obviously he was from joey. I play the plate at west to school. They're separated from. I'm like you know like two miles. West side east side east is kind of like the rough part of joliet. I kinda grew up in that area but then i moved to the west side i was able to get away from gangs and from a lot of the bad things that were going on so you know you know growing up you know all i can do is just hear stories about my dad's pinch man who broke records as a sophomore year was like thirty three points a game in high school and <hes> the only so he was really good basketball player kinda like allegedly in a juliette area so you know obviously i had a lot of you know law shoes to fill then he went to play for the redbirds and they his nickname was in that bomber because he can really shoot from far out like he had deep range and then everyone was like every time you know my dad comes up like that guy can really really shoot so he was you know his all american there play with collins <hes> and <hes> and then after that he went on and having trials with some the committee and in <hes> eight assigned to be a teacher at a maximum security prison he coach a little bit at george in college so to keep kind of basketball keep his basketball traffic going so you know my dad and nutshell but it's it's amazing everywhere i go. I've been coaching for nine years and i was my ninth year and like every time that'd be somebody. Someone have my dad which you really cool to here. Yeah and <hes> you might has longer here. My dad was he. You know he was obviously not not a player like he played but not play like your dad but it is. It's one of the things about basketball kind of being this this family. I remember how late howard garfinkel garfinkel set would say said that to me like every year. I've seen at the final four is like your dad. He brought your momma. She was beyond say basketball is family and it really is and when they when they say great things about your parents. It's pretty pretty odd inspiring so when when you're you're coming up at that time he's working in a maximum security prison while you're a kid. Oh yeah yeah no. He was working. He was a teacher at a maximum security prison and it was a youth prison. I wi fi joliet and <hes> you know the the the oldest kids there were eighteen so it's teenagers and <hes> you know guys that you know did bad crimes. I mean it was it was it was pretty intense but the court thing was you know every once in a while. I'll get go and play basketball with those guys. You know i would imagine i kid you know playing with the budget inmates and that kind that's kind of where i kind of got my toughness. Kinda got my swagger from those opportunities wendy's and then you know. Sometimes my dad would take me there to help me. You know refocusing that didn't trouble mac because like i kinda grew up. I was is kind of a problem so i got kicked out like four schools. You know one school twice in my elementary years so i do often bring me all. I couldn't if i did from everything man like like life so i grew up obviously joliet east. I had my family members. Wall kinda like gang members and <hes> you know i kind of had a chip in my because i was willing to look at it they were they had a debt so i would always you know act out. Do things didn't fight and oh no this child is things kind of useless and <hes> you know again kicked out but <hes> but <hes> to be honest i went to catholic school in junior high and that kind of changed my life man and that's where i kind of refocus. I got through the michael jackson basketball. I even better and it kinda gave me a goal that you just gotta be refocused and stop getting in trouble so i never got kicked out but i mean i had. I got in trouble all the time time like you you name it. I did it right like i in <hes> when i was in middle school. My dad was like hey. I'm going to hold you back back because i was he grew late. He knew i was going to grow late. Amount was like five feet tall and eighth grade hundred hundred and two hundred three pounds and so like i knew goes in and i was just a pain in the ass so like i did things where i took a paper clip and have a rubber band fire it substitute teacher you know wouldn't be looking at fired fired actually hit one of them in the face got suspended and my my grades came and it used to be a i was one of those where would come in and it was like an along uh-huh like a self contained envelope and open it up and it was it was that deal whereas like you could actually erase them really quickly and i raised them and knew how to make it look use a typewriter and type on the backward had that kind of paper that would make the print and changed the grades so i didn't give myself like straight as is like as and bs and maybe onc- or something instead of like the ds and cs that i had and so my mom goes in when i get suspended from school and she has to meet with the vice principal and vice principals like like you know his grades are terrible. She's like what are you talking about. I was like yeah she's like. He's you know he's failing some classes. He's not showing up. He's she's like. I have no idea what you're talking about. She's like he's. He's like here's the here's the report card. It's like card. I got it so you know like it was when you get in trouble at school. How would your dad handle it. Oh man talk about thinking man. My dad was in my despair rod but shoot it. It didn't work. It didn't work. You know it's funny man. I actually actually showed us through a lot when i see the kids you know i grew up. I've seen a rough city. You know i saw a lot. Their kids shouldn't see you know you know it wasn't uncommon. I be going home in a drive-by after we have the doug behind cars so he's kinda is this. Is this the environment you in. You know. You got your mad. He the fighting is the only way that kind of you know achieve any type of no man's stamp you know so <hes> so it was just it was just kind of like a persona that i tried take on but the funny thing. Is you know the last guy i got kicked out of the lives of kelly and it was like wander up at school was in our area and here i am getting kicked out of after school so my parents kinda had the last strain if they okay we're gonna send you to a juvenile centre or we're gonna try. Catholic school and the catholic school was on the west side of joliette saint jude's and i never forget my first like a week. They're like our only black kid in the school. It was like each class at like twenty. Five students go to class and you know everyone was kinda intimidated by me but you know it with my last shot and my parents can the nuns and the personal that hey he's gonna be on his best behavior and a man my first report card. They got four fs in the and i got a d. N. p. e. and it was just i was going down the tubes. It didn't like it was gonna work and there's this les mis think and ashtray to everybody. I speak to because it's remarkable story how you know you know. A teacher can really impact the kid. This lady ms paint kind of sitting here when she was like sticks to. She was intimidating teacher in the school. There are so many scary stories about her but yet she took time to insure me and she just we had a couple conversations stations and i can relate to her 'cause i was tall and everybody was intimidated by me and you know we just kind of hit it off and she was like you think you want to be a basketball player and if you think that he won't won't be successful and you wanna have a good future. You're going to have to focusing academics. You're gonna have to learn to you know be respectful in classrooms and not frighten you get angry and she basically like mentored me and that lady to this day like i give her credit for change in my life because i went from four s one d two. You know my my fixed rate year or my son great year. I was a a._b._c. student aid great year as and bs and then my first year in high school i was a straight. A student never getting kicked data school. I it just totally changed my life. So you know i went back. I went back to school about. I wanna say three years ago and i i wanted to say hi to her and they had a school assembly that day and they were actually honoring her. On the day i showed up and i got the story man it was it was a pretty special moment man so that's have kind of that kind of how my life changed and best kind of direction or the other moment where like my life star to take a positive trend up. You know hey it's r._j. Bell hosts host of these straight out of vegas podcast joining along with the vegas pros who know as we give you the vegas perspective on the biggest stories of the day sports batters. Listen listen for the money. Sports fans listen to no more than their bodies. We deliver the vegas truth to you and we do it every single day. That's my personal promise iheartradio. It was number one for podcast and it's easy to see why fine straight outta vegas with r._j. Bell on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast bill self as head coach dole annoy your in high school in juliette. They started to get rolling <hes>. What led you to to pick illinois. You know initially like they. They actually offered me me and my freshman year <hes> my freshman year in high school. I was playing varsity. We've played downstate and played against quincy and i think rob jetson jetson at the time was was an assistant there and he saw me and if they tournament and you know my fresh near they've done my first offer and it's actually a long krueger with was there and <hes> then yeah i kind of fell in love with illinois. You know i always wanted to play for my state but you know i was getting recruited by michigan state. Tom izzo arizona. <hes> some really good schools. Go dang was heavily and you know i wanted to kind of go through the process a bit but i always had a little more in the back of my mind so i committed early after my sophomore year and then that's when lon kruger actually he left and went to n._b._a. And they hire bill self and <hes> and bill came to see me and he continued to recruit me and we build the relationship and you know i kind of stay stay committed and i signed with bill self. How good were you senior. You know my senior year. I was good. I mean i was like a top five in the state. <hes> i think i was like four through my runner runner up mr basketball but but that year we had eddy curry will bind them <hes> myself gee backhoes peer peers luther head. It was a very talented run in the chicago suburbs in the city. You know the year before you know it was dwayne wade you know with their matlock so in basketball was really healthy in chicago land the area <hes> during those years so you show up at illinois in two thousand one who's in your squad two thousand one shoot man. Do you need help so so so so the freshman is myself <hes> luther hip and then i think our seniors cory gory bradford frank williams <hes> robert archibald who played in be h obviously are going those franklin playing the league ranka the miracle paul brian cook with a with a junior snacks <hes> york howard yup snacks yeah we we had a squad squat man. It was a family man it was it was it was a pretty cool deal. Okay so i i do think it's interesting like so shah. Champagne is like for a guy. Who's your from the suburbs of chicago. I guess a little bit out there right. It's a it's a true kind of state school and it does. I always feel like you. You know when i went to oklahoma state was when it was different. Notre dame in that it was a state school. It's removed from a city and so it it it brings you closer. Was that what it was like for. You was it. Was it too country for you. Like what was it like for you. When you first got there man you know it to be honest. I didn't really think much about it. I was just trying to be plant illinois <hes> back in that day i mean it was had it rolling. <hes> we were winning <hes> when they tend championships and and obviously you know my four years is there was pretty remarkable. He won the big ten every year. You know three three sixteen championship game so you know when you're there basketball so was so exciting hiding fans or loved us. You know you kind of forget that you're you're in a cornfield nowhere because you know you just you you pretty much at the gym you dorm in class and then travel for game so it was it was fun man. I i love my four years there. Why didn't frank williams making the league. I i have no idea that he was. He was a really good talent. <hes> you know and he was he was a great guy and i i. I really love playing with them. <hes> you know but you the n._b._a. It's not easy you know <hes> the fact that he got drafted and the fact that he played the games he did you know i think it's i think i think it's now some guys is you know obviously pan out and getting a situation where they fit and things go well and some guys you know. Maybe played for three or four years shoot i. I don't know to me basketball ballplayers that would wouldn't trade that type of career for you know no question but he can't he was super super hyped and he you know and and he <hes> bill self really got a lot more out of him than felt like lawn would and but then he didn't he didn't stick for a long time in the n._b._a. The next year next year you bring in james augustine darren williams <hes> and dee brown but i wanna ask you bet your freshman year. You didn't play very much. What was is that like. What was that like emotionally. Go through your dad's legend. You played every year in high school. You're a star you come into illinois and you barely play. It was like man so you know. I was pretty confident that <hes> margaret confident that out of your started there. You know i knew knew that i had some guys who had some scenes that you know had a lot of experience <hes> but now i work my tail off and you know i was tough in practice. I didn't back back down and when i did play you know national glimpses. I showed signs. You know that you know i was going to be good and the the thing that changed my career with the summer going from my freshman to sophomore year. <hes> i went on. I went to big ten. All star trek and do stuff was actually the coach and actually let that team. Scoring and fan made a bunch of upperclassmen and tom coverdale. I mean there was a ton of guys that played the became older and you know i really played really well and all the work about putting in the summer of my freshman year doing the season extra work. I put in outside of practice an aunt leading up to that big ten trips that worked i put any kind of it kind of came out and i thought that was where bill self fall you know the potential i had and he started the next year and you know i i played really well and obviously when we went on to win the big ten <hes> tournament and we went to the lincoln to turn around but that that that my freshman to faulkner year was where i make hugh striving. I never looked back. I mentioned that freshman class came in that team. That won the big ten that you're you're only seniors brian cook who is again kind of before his time right like you you know stretch for five james always became kind of the same thing <hes> but you brought in darren williams and d brown and it's interesting team because when di was probably more highly regarded right one because he's from the state to because he just had to electric player. Did you know what did you see from darren williams. When you first saw we're going to be really good. You know number one he he could really really defend and he was extremely extremely competitor and <hes> you know he was. He was a little overweight when he got there so you need to lose some weight and <hes> but i knew i knew he was going to be a special point guard yeah great court vision and and <hes> man i feel like you know he just he he was that big art could guard anybody and so as as as as freshmen you went on i mean they just kept getting better and each year. He improved a ton but i i knew he was gonna be special now. I was shocked. I'm not going to our shock they obviously n._b._a. All star but you know many kids can proven and you just his competitive nee. Trapping is a reason that he was as good as he was. Oh okay so let's so bill self leaves. What after that year so you guys go you go for the tournament. You lose to notre dame right loss notre dame in the in the n._c._a._a. Tournament second round he'd be western kentucky loose notre dame <hes>. What do you remember about losing the game and when bill ended up leaving and how you guys found funny because you know we lost off to kansas freshman year in the sweet sixteen i believe and <hes> you know like no one ever thought that total even though it kansas 'cause you know names. He's like we're upset and we want to play them again and beat them. You know kinda like that. We do is again that we we're gonna. We're gonna we're gonna beat them and <hes> and <hes> when when he said he was leaving. You know it was tough. It was really tough because we built a really good relationship. He believed in the he gave me opportunity. <hes> <hes> you know myself at the three position which you know i i love playing on the wing. You and i really felt like i was getting a lot better and <hes> so when he decided to leave you know we have concision me personally. If i was gonna transfer it's fake and i'm loyal ga so obviously i ended up staying you know. I think i believe our team. We all kind of came together. We're gonna stay and when they have bruce weber you know he just kind of came in and you know you know. Get the competing at the play together. We believe that <hes> and <hes> you know we we went on around there. You know i think i think he did a good job of you know getting us getting us to believe in him getting leaving assistant his style and <hes> keeping that team together because the other thing you know we were a special chain and if any one of us would have left you know. I don't think we would have been as good because we're so good together. When did where'd you almost go. Did you follow where you're gonna fall into kansas. Where are we going to go. I remember the time time you know obviously in thought about that. But you know i just i really comfortable annoy and the one with my dad's doing life eight and he was on american air and maybe going unless they have been you know cool. You know going down to major. Maybe i could have had a big row there on my dad's legacy but you know i decided to stay and i'm i'm really happy i did because i mean we my to my junior year about my freshman and sophomore year was good my jeans ten year mail man we really we really want a lot of games and at times okay but but you also played the four right so you said how much you liked playing the three and bill started at three what was the conversation with you and bruce weber when he said look you know we're kaput augustine at the five we got you d will d brown luther head. Those are three guards. You know you're i mean really. We and we played small. When i was in college. We had dozen mason play the four so it was like you the first of the kind but i'm and i'm guessing that because look in the league. They weren't six six four men back then right. What was that conversation like. You know what's funny because because my my jimmy year i still started agree and you know i think it came off. The bench and i was was <hes> me brian mandal garin and nixon. Maybe the knicks missed start center yeah. I figured maybe maybe brian cook was not you know brian cook graduate you come home in. I'm looking at the man. I know james augustine cathartic by one other players that started our junior hold on i got i got knicks started. Six games bryan randall started nine games. Okay started twenty four games but the only play it'd be. I started out playing the three and then he brought me in and and <hes> he asked hey would you go down to the four because he felt like make our team more versatile and obviously he knew that i want to be a wing and the we now see i worked on a lotta guard skills and he was just like he knew that from from the standpoint of getting drafted you know it i can i can think it can hurt my draft status which it may have very well did but you know i i do and and and coach weber. Do you know me playing the four would pose a mismatch rather teams and i was strong enough. I was you know big enough athletic enough to do it and so i said sure i do the team and really i mean i know like in the big ten play we went like thirteen straight games to finish out the season and then obviously our senior we were twenty nine and one the regular season so yeah it was one of things where like i believe in what he was fan and you know me going down to the four still starting i could could help our team and in a bit so that was the conversation i don't regret it because i mean we literally switch one through four and made wait a minute. You guys were twenty six and six you take on duke in the term. They have blue all all day j._j. Gan ewing do han shelter williams shattuck randolph and <hes> close game at half and they ended up beaten by ten. What do you remember about losing to do it will game you know getting a loose i really wanted to because i really wanted to advance <hes> but at the same time it was fun you know i think that game. I play one of my better gangs. Eighteen points eight rebounds thousand out matched up against luau. Dang someone that was i knew it was gonna be a first round draft. Pick so for me. I took it as an opportunity to you know prove that you know i was the player and <hes> and <hes> but we came up short. I mean they're really good really good and <hes> you know. I think i think losing that game. Kinda put a chip on our shoulders born into summer. <hes> you know for the following season but it was a fun game anytime you plan things you plan those those atmospheres environmental special okay so so you win. You're you in twenty nine in a row to start your senior win every game of the regular season only to lose the the regular season finale right to go thirty. Now you play at ohio state. You lose by one point. Here's the question that matters fifteen years later. Do you remember the other any of the other games or do you just remember the lost ohio state. If craving because i definitely remember the loss out house they more than a lot of the other games but that'd be i said like i remember you know playing wake forest when they're number one and number three in a semi bahamas beat them by twenty points. <hes> i remember <hes> you know some of the wisconsin games because back then wisconsin. We've got a huge rivalry and one of my buddies who played at lockport which is cost high rival. A lotta tucker played at wisconsin so you know that was always a special game for me. 'cause meal smoked imply. Annoy illinois illinois wisconsin was like go in towns reverse lock fourth rivalry so that that was a that was the memorable memorable games <hes> but definitely you know you remember that you know metro vaster going nuts. He wasn't even like a major problem. Scouting reports with the dude had like twenty seven points and like this totally destroyed and but today i felt like it got refocused terminate with her. You know you know. I don't know if he would have ran off those eight straight games to get to the championship. Okay she win. The big big ten you win the big ten tournament wisconsin a third time you go to the n._c._a._a. Tournament and you get to the elite eight chance to go to the final four and and you guys were down the famous illinois comeback. We guys down like fourteen with how many minutes to go like that thing was. It felt like it was over wasn't it. Oh yeah oh yeah. I mean people turn to turn the t._v. Off you know people are upset. Our fans are quiet now. It was unbelievable unbelievable comeback doc and <hes> you know i i after that. They don't even know how we how we made it matt. I'm in the game praying and saying god i. I guess it's not mitt for for this to happen but i said if it is you gotta help us and that was down fourteen like i remember praying that prayer and then and we are still hit a three got noticed feeling the three three and just like bam like the game of five and i just knew once we caught at the game winning in overtime it was it was unbelievable as clay travis host of the outkick the coverage podcast join me every day as i give you the nation and strongest opinions on the biggest stories in sports if you're looking for a sports podcasts at smart original funny and authentic alka coverage clay travis the perfect podcast asked for you i even recently launched a brand new podcast called wins and losses with clay travis which featured long form conversations with the biggest names in sports business and entertainment. Listen on apple podcast or the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts you're down. You're actually down fifteen with four minutes to go. It was at at allstate arena which <hes> of course that's where depaul used to play <hes>. I used to be the rosemont horizon right so it's in the suburbs of chicago chicago and you're literally you know you guys have arguably the greatest comeback in the history of illinois and then you go to overtime i i took it was close in as much as you may have said. Hey coming back tying it. We knew they still forced overtime and it was still a close game overtime it was it really was it really was but confident we're gonna win and and that seems good man had gone adam salmon fry <hes> <hes> <hes> who will they have a lot of really good players. Now channing frye was here. I'll i'll give you their automatic lean stoudamire mustafa sha cour hassan adams channing frye channing frye twenty four and twelve. Was that you he was is that so who you were going a little bit i had i had eighteen in like nine. I mean it wasn't like you know it will mean listening to change. I gave it to you. It's it's okay like jane prize giving it to a lot of people gave it to you a little bit there but no actually actually he gave it to. I'm joking with very logger thing with master master there or man. I've been renovated record. A gay guard the big white stiff. That's what you d like maggie me he he had fourteen. I believe that's a career by the way he had fourteen steal. Two assists five rebounds his actually his his resume tape is lighten you up. What was what was my satellites. You went your stat line. You were six of eleven yet sixteen points five rebounds. It's four offensive boards as big big. One block morale quebec and four offensive fouls four fouls but four paltrow yeah. What else did i have. I have the big what the w right you had. You had zero assist. I wanna point out completely yeah so you go to the final four so i let you go from playing chicago hometown not far playing in saint louis and i think everyone knew like you guys. Were on a or. I felt like i remember covering it. You guys are on a collision course to to play a against against north carolina. You guys stumped louisville. I mean you beat the heck out of louisville in the in the semifinals and then you take on north carolina here you guys that's our thirty seven in one. You know you're thirty seven one. The only losses by one point and you guys were big time underdogs to north carolina china. What are you preparing for natia chaim game man it just it goes so fast i mean when you think about the final four just i remember getting there and they have that found force ceremony. We get your ring and they get that little watch. I mean it's just it's surreal moment and to be. I don't really remember a ton of the preparation just because there's going so fast and there's so much excitement <hes> but the one thing i do remember i just might be weird there is there's one moment in every game <hes> <hes> in college professionals that that it just it makes me feel special like it makes me feel like i'm a part of this. I'm a part of this athletic event. I am in this game. I'm about to perform like and after national anthem like every time i play play every time the national anthem even have coach like this that moment where like i take in the environment i take in the fans i take in the moment and our member the national anthem at in saint louis and i think it was <hes> do the rams i forget the name of the the dome but i remember they had an eagle eagles fly from the top of the dome and landed half court and i remember just like you know the thing the national anthem at just that moment man with the with attack and it really just take in we are in the national championship game and and once once once once it and once we started playing i mean you just you just go focus because i'm trying to win. You know there's really nothing no distracting you by the national anthem aba championship game is where i kinda took in the moment you know yeah yeah. No it was it was amazing and <hes> you guys took forty. Three's you only made twelve of them. Game was close. You end up losing by five points. I distinctly remember that locker and we lost any lead eight in syracuse to florida in two thousand and never forget like looking around that locker room and it like you mentioned. It goes so fast like you. You played four years at illinois. You you know you started for three of those years and you guys won. One four big ten championships like you want a lot of ball games and then all of a sudden then it's over and it's like i will probably never play with these guys ever again and and as you know there's an incredible bond when play in college especially as you said surrounded by cornfields would ever dudes are from all over and you come together and it's like your family really do you remember that. Do you remember what bruce said when it was over. Do you remember anything about that locker room. I don't i i mean obviously i cried man. You know just the hardest thing and i hate that this has to happen but the hardest thing is coming up second you know in the national a game like that's the hardest thing to endure because you're walking off the court and there's a celebration going on. You're not celebrating and and i it's funny because like now the basketball coach and college like i go to the final four is every year and i love going through this game championship game the semi finals game and i can always relate to the team that loses as they're walking on the court because like that is like you had this high of getting the moment and then bam you come up short. It's it's it's hard. It's hard but obviously in the locker room. You know just like me. I feel like i think i remember weber was very positive. Even you know just like really praise for accomplishing what we did was like it's unbelievable accomplishment to make it that far it kinda helped kinda dope little bit but i know and look you guys went small and they were big and sean may kick james augustine's ass right and you guys tried to you did the math you did. Almost analytics three is about more than two years. You're down big at the half. He came back made it super close but you could make enough shots. You know to win the game. Luther heads five or sixteen <hes> <hes> but the big thing was you guys could not contain. Sean may just kinda h you guys live with. It was was my memory of it. Is that accurate depiction. Yeah you know he filed in ten minutes. I mean that was kind of to be honest. It was kind of ridiculous you know i just you know it was unbelievable. How a a guy can file in ten minutes. You know so you know i know sean may was really good and i'm not taking away from the other way. You know james augustine. She'll play more than ten minutes in that game that would have helped at the time <hes> and you know you. Just you know they made some big time shot and you know it was it was it wasn't the game and you know and and and obviously we shall op- threes and you know some of those things will fail. You know a game but you know it is what it is and you know like like i said even to this day man when i see guys carolina man as we you know we got to experience that you know you know jackie manual maternity costa valpo where i was for. I five years so we we kind of had from there. You know just like hey man. This is still a cool thing that we got the experience. Those guys just came out on top. So you get done playing. You go undrafted. What did you how did you do you go to summer league with the sonics. How'd you get how'd you get with the sonics. Yeah actually went the star league with my first year kind of mass so long ago i mean with the dallas mavericks and then i signed with the seattle times i went to training camp with them and i made the preseason roster. Now gonna laugh cut and then you go into faster. Okay okay so the the supersonics you who is in that training camp. She's that's. It's almost over ten years ago. Browse crazy you you don't you don't remember who is on walk into the seattle supersonics. I mean this is back when they were good. You wanna know who's on that roster ray allah yeah obviously he was kind of nice like jesus was on the team. You got jesus work which was awesome like i got a lot of time with though the great awesome rick rick brunson yes yes in rick brunson with somebody that i kinda continue to build relationship with <hes> look written our yep. <hes> we have bet on that team was damien. Wilkins was on that team. I think damien wilkins in our like competing for spot. I believe i don't think he was guaranteed. Reggie reggie evans is on that team. Yep really big ready. Iwa the big thing guy tally panko they had robert robert swift was their first round draft. Pick a hill. Did you know oh that he was like he couldn't handle it. I did i mean it was just like i didn't have time but you know he was big and athletic <hes> tattoos at the time like i've back when tattoos gotta be becoming even more prevalent he had done <hes> but the dude dude man he he he he he should stock. I don't know what happened with them. Mentally whatever but like man he was he was talented folks as chris bruce. You start and i am here with my partner rob parker and together. We are the i'd come. That's right join chris and me every day as we give you. The hottest spiciest sports takes that you won't hear anywhere else and for the record rob parker is the odd one. I'm the more reasonable what so listen to the couple with chris bruce art and rothrock on apple podcasts bore when the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts so <hes> <hes> do you remember getting cut buck. I try to try to block those warmer throughout the. I'm here to bring them up. I mean 'cause i remember i was in training. I was in. I would do the idea the the vet free agent camp with lakers three different times and i remember every time mitch cub check would come. I'm in and go like you know like hey gray blah blah and the third time he was like we feel like you're really close and you should probably go the d. league and you might have a shot at this thing and i was a bad fit for their system triangle obviously and i was a i need a ball screen. You know i need the ball. My hands not not out of my the hands. I wasn't shooter and just remember. I remember what i remember. Most intimate obviously made it with the jazz the next year but what i remember most was you you walk in the facility and the lakers you walk by shacks picture. Kobe's picture magic's picture kareem will jerry every west goodrich everything and at first your first you like overwhelmed and then everybody's so cool to you and treat you like part of the team. They like yeah. I can do this and then you start. You like think about because when you get when i got there. I didn't think there's there's no way i'm making the lakers no shot. I'm just i need to impress other people and then you're like man i could. I could do this and then they come in unlike now you can't do this. I remember just being devastating to me. I mean if searching back in those negative memories what do you remember about your cop man. I it was tough after i should have made the team and i competed in practice <hes> y'all's rookie and and i knew that you know it was something that i had i had ah i had the grind harder than anybody else and i did that. I didn't get much of opportunity impre- proven much opportunity to play kind of feeling that you know once the game unscarred. You're making <hes> so you. You know you go to rockville rockford so now you're pack your stuff. You get cut cut and this is when the cba is not the c._b. A of of old but you went in and you decided to play for team kind of close to your hometown. Alec rockford's not far from from joliet and you were c._b._a. Rookie of the year why not go overseas why stay stateside. I want to play an n._b._a. And i was writing and you know and <hes> and that was something that i was determined to do and i approve so in the got the played three and you know i got the ball. I've got shoot threes. I got to you know make create off the dribble and you know a good experience. It was a great for my my wife. We got married young and we've got to live far from my hometown and <hes> so i. I feel like i was ready for an n._b._a. Roster so that's lottery overseas and at the time you know i wouldn't have got a big contract because you know i haven't done much so that's summer you you went to. Did you work out in utah like how did it. How did it come to where you <hes> you went to camp with the jazz so they had me come workout and <hes> might assume that <hes> as soon as the sea basins down like i came in and worked out by myself and they tried to you put me through the ringer and i handled it <hes> and they were impressed and they ended up getting a partial guarantee that come training camp and was them and the <hes> miami miami. I didn't work out so both of the mining eight and the jazz jazz ganci more money so obviously i went to the jazz route and it was cool man i was there all summer trained with the team and you know the training camp and i got the play this year that time and i played well in the preseason games and and up keeping me and that's not the like man i arrived. I'm an n._b._a. Was awesome yeah well. Let's feeling of seeing your name on the back of your jersey and you walk in the locker occur in the first game of the season and you're an n._b._a. Player it's funny when i went to sign my contract with the jazz. Now this is i don't tell me people this but the first thing i did i welcome to the arena and by myself and we got people say hey say. How am i wanna walk on a walk into the arena by myself. Just kind of take it all and believe it or not i re- reenacted the energy a michael jordan game six when they won a championship and like i literally did that indefinite him by myself because it was just kinda cool to know that here i am in the place that happened so doc <hes> the jazz with special but it just hits you that man this lead there i am. I made it like. I haven't found like most you deal or anything but yet. I'm gonna play a game in n._b._a. Jersey in this arena so it was it was it was pretty cool man or something. I thought you know it was it was it was a goal that you know i accomplished. I wanna go through really quickly. <hes> east of the country played in but <hes> who is the best player. Have you ever played against in the n._b._a. But i- guarded and like actually had to like go against i would say i would say probably smell anthony ideally guard koby much i think in santa guard him <hes> leka no anthony i we went at it and that that was that was pretty cool man he was when he was really young and he was letting do play escorting where you got the ball right like main scored the mid post going to post scores mid range shooting three some just i mean just just an absolute scoring machine <hes> you got to be locked in bore more and get the bucket easy. Okay i know you went to the to the d. league and then you end up going overseas one memory maria playing for toronto in italy the cool thing about illegal <hes> <hes> you know my first year over there. I made more more my illegal d._a. Is <hes> you know n._b._a. Minimum so you know. I was getting paid a lot of money to play there and you. It was cool man. You know it's very competitive. <hes> the league was really good guys. Leave the basketball at the highest level and <hes> you know it was an opportunity for me. It's my first time playing in europe. You know shohei that i could play and hopefully find a bigger deal and <hes> i just remember the arena's man because this that was the first the first this contract late and i play a lot more countries after that but i remember arenas in the city and how much love they ask for the team i it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. The next year you went to jerusalem. I know you're the bulls in between but didn't make the final cut. Do you remember about jerusalem christian man. I mean just living in jerusalem. <hes> was pretty cool then my house with like ten minutes away from where jesus was crucified and buried and rose <hes> fifteen minutes from bethlehem orders born you know <hes> and that was that was surreal just being able to play that environment learn hebrew and you know go to all the different sites and you know play for play for jerusalem. I mean we we had a line in our tribe of judah and you know for for a key grows up going to sunday school. The tribe of judah is kind of cool and faster here. I am with a line on my jersey jersey. Could i'm playing for jerusalem. <hes> so that was that was that was the moment that i are year. My wife and i will always remember spain next year was that like spain with cool <hes> and that was the first time ranta situation where they say hey you know you might not get paid like the sponsored didn't have any money and if we we were getting paid for the last like the month of christmas. I'm kinda leaving there because i wasn't getting paid and going to france so you know the time i was in the a._c._p. Was good very tough league that time this very competitive either they i think they should be one besley in in a world of secondhand n._b._a. <hes> for it was good. It was fun. I mean i got to play against joe. Ingles who's killing. Now in big signed a major contract. They gotta play ricky rubio as when he was like sixteen plan for barcelona and <hes> it was like the the the the spanish justin beaver <hes> so that was that was cool with c._n._n. His fanfare <hes> school manages all those countries man spain. Italy and jerusalem isn't experience. I only basketball combined for someone like myself and and i just i'm so grateful for the game to be able to living constantly mess you went to france then you were in the bulls training camp twice for a kitten kogyo the same kid who you had that great you come back against arizona you reenacted the jordan shot by the way when he reenacted. The jordan shot was with the ball without a ball deputy without a ball. Okay okay so you may were there. Were there were there was even a court on. It was just like there was no court on the floor in jail. I caught my imagination okay so but to not make the bulls twice. How was that was that devastating what was or was it just wasn't meant to be 'cause you've already played eight in the league and you already made some money doing it like what was what was what was that like for chicago. Kid get cut devastating <hes> but and last night last time. I thought it was gonna make it. I was so close and you know when you're playing well. You feel like you deserve to make the team and you don't. You know obviously whether it's money do who are. They want to go with a bad man. Whatever whatever the reasoning is you know it is devastating and you know and that's not been playing so i was like oh he just with a i'm gonna go overseas and find a good contract and maybe come back and that was a really good team too. Though right that was that was that team went sixty two games sixty two they did they did and <hes> and i had a great camp and had some really good games like the one i played. I mean i from one of my best. Dunkley was on gore type. You know the my last my last in day buckles in preseason. I've done on gortex six went down the lane fan. I mean it was nice and now that was my last time escort an n._b._a. Arena and uh so i guess i kind of went out with a bang. I thought the complex yes i guess. Why did you in preseason. Kid it down for me. If you got you got you gotta footer. You gotta footer right doesn't yeah it doesn't really matter why you go to germany after that and he played well. Why did you walk away star coaching so you know no i i had ran <hes> sports ministry in the summers my whole my whole playing career and <hes> every summer i come home and i do scared good about met with these kids. I would do mentorship and you know it was kind of like my heart was every year. I'll go back and play like i kinda missed. You know that side. I missed working with kids. I missed seeing guys get better. I missed being able to be around young men and share stories and see them grow and mentor them and like that would that's where i live for for but you know playing basketball but i did especially athlete that pay the bills and <hes> my last year playing. I told my wife before the season. I said hey in a place like valparaiso. It opened up our coast college basketball. There had no idea what's going to happen. I just knew homer ju- bright new kind of how they ran the program and i have so much respect for what they did in the way they did <hes> i told my wife if i was getting a coach and i wanna coast there and the result that as my wife said hey you should think you stay my coach in college i mean she. She thought that that'd be good at it and i was like yeah. No never <hes> you're wasting your family. It's cutthroat. It's a crazy business. I said i'm going to keep playing back ball a lot of money and they retire and go new ministry. Your your new e._s._p._n. Or something and <hes> make a long story short homered. Your tires gets the job and <hes> i'm in. I'm in the semi finals in germany germany and competing for a championship and he basically altered your job during that time and had to make a decision once the season's was on. Do i keep playing. Do i sign this huge contract. I had a contract and all the land teams and you're trying to find the age said there was some teams in the n._b._a. They wanna bring the in training camp with all that happening. I decide to walk away and the coaching and that was a that night years ago at twenty eight in my upright did you have. Do you have any that that first year second year. Giovanni regrets no man. You know i started coaching though and obviously you know my first this year we ended up winning the horizon league and we went to the i._t. Or mid major that time you know it's pretty good accomplishment and my second year we ended up winning the the horizon league regular season and then win the tournament going into the tournament and had just we started having success man and i recruited some really good players alec peters the the draft pick that was went about <hes> recruit and it just it kind of i kind of love with it and <hes> funny story though my my second year coaching alicante i think singler was playing with alicante time and he left went to the n._b._a. And alicante call my agent massive. I'll be you wanna come there and play in the middle of season and the contract that they were gonna give me was like six times more than making up a college basketball coach my age and my agent herbert away was like hey you wanna pass this up and that was the only time where i thought about i was like man i lied to get back into playing and <hes> but i did man i was invested. I was locked and i'm happy that i did because you know 'cause coaching careers. It's kinda. Take off a little bit well. Well you guys go to guys get vandy you move of course you land darius garland who only plays a handful of games for you so things were looking great. What what is for people haven't seen darius garland plagues. He barely played for you guys advantage last year. What's he like. He the point guard and i know it sounds very simple but you know there's not many like real point out there. I mean he is a bona fide p._g. With great feel great pace great court vision can shoot the ball competitive. You know i mean he's one of those guys in practice you do something every day that you're like wow he's really just made up or he leads us and they had that call so ray that step back like he or he man he really just hit that per game point like kids special and that's why you know we built everything around you know and and <hes> you know obviously we have some kids lee because they didn't play a lot and it was just it was one of those things where like we just we were all lead you know and <hes> and when he got hurt man that was a devastating blow because our team our system was kinda you know bill for him to the thing and <hes> so i'm happy that he was still able to get drafted an n._b._a. N._b._a. draft and i think he's going to tremendous career and you know. I hope that he can stay healthy because kim special yeah i was told by some lakers guys they worked him out and they said it was <hes> he and lillard are the two most impressive oppressive shooting workouts. They've had for college guys college college guards like that he would just young unbelievable. Look you guys go nine in twenty-three your a._d. Dies so the guy who hired bryce dies in the middle of the season did did you did you have any sense that he was going to get fired. You know we had a feeling <hes> it was a rough. I mean our first year there we into making a tournament and no one thought that we would you know those guys rallied came together and it was a special special man and you know that first year bandied you know we thought after that you know whether we might get extension or anything it didn't happen no big deal but you know the second year like i we finally allie ran into like the injury bug like you know our best player all f._c._c. player goes out for the whole season in the middle and right before conference play and you know we struggle struggle. You know with him being gone. He hurt his so he can play and then we find his grade class and to our sales like oh man. We got this great class. We got a really good point guard and then five games and he goes out you know and there are certain things as a coach you. I just can't control you can't control injuries especially to your best player and then your point guard and <hes> you know it was rough man. It was hard. It was the hardest two years of my life in basketball and you know obviously when david williams passes away just make even harder and then you know that you care about because i really returning him. Use a mental for me. Believe me <hes> he actually gave me a great contract from head coach opportunities. I ended up staying and <hes> he really came up me and my family <hes> <hes> so when he passed away it was that was a devastating blow and then you fire and it was it was by far the hardest two who years of my life basketball and we're back at the ron burgundy podcast season two baby carolina here is a pathological liar okay. So what does her brain looked like. I normally would disagree with this but i made a pact run earlier so yeah. Let's go with it when daily the pressure team. Whenever what else does on holidays and sometimes i forget. I'm not perfect of your breath bother you. I mean the smell of rare steak and aged whiskey no carolina that doesn't bother me leading a little bit the back of your shirt at means. It was a good waxing. They got got the entire hair follicle. He say i know so. How long has it been bleeding. It's been bleeding all night long. You shouldn't go cheap relaxing. I had to throw my sheets out. This is ron burgundy until next time. Don't use public restrooms. Listen to the ron burgundy podcast on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. I do wanna i without. I want to ask you though about that n._c._a._a. Tournament game because has its forever. It's northwestern first appearance and their only win but also you mentioned the best. The s._e._c. player got hurt. Matthew fisher davis he was the one who fouled you time and score. What was it really like after the game in the locker room. The kids devastated you know i. I can't imagine what how how did you handle who who's to talk to him. How do you handle a situation like that. Man you love them player either family and and you talked about like you know <hes> you know when you're playing for years the baas you have those guys you know now now the coach. I get to have that every year. You know with the new kids and so he he's one of ours you know he's he's in our fold. You know and you know you embrace them. You know it was a mistake. People make mistakes. All the time. You know coaches make mistakes. Players make mistakes. No one wants to make a mistake. It just happens so you know you love him through it man you know hey man guys. He made a tournament armament where we were right there. We almost one you know. Let's come back and do it again. Next year you know keep your heads off. You know you're crying because you're gonna miss. The seniors you know the thing is that you won't get the practice coach teeth mentors. Those times spend time with anymore. You're gonna miss them down to the locker. Rooms like you know especially if the coach because you miss those guys you know you care about him. You know you've seen you've seen every day. They're like your son. Do you know what i'm saying and grow a lot of embracing a lot of encouraging crying and robert fighting it for for the guy who can do it again. I see you mentioned that. You had an unbelievable contracts. You didn't have to take a job this year. You could've spent time your family. You guys like living in nashville. Although that might have been awkward donny daniels longtime assistant leaves and goes back to utah where he actually came from before he went to gonzaga so how did it. How did mark few approach. You had come to be with your assistant gone back. I knew guys <hes> for a while. I knew tommy lloyd. I coach his players on a tour and i thought he did a really good job with these guys and we were. We were involved in some of those future head. Coaches events needs to be abusive thing imitation only in indianapolis and him and i got to worry about that so we got to spend time together there. You know we just kind of build relationship. <hes> through through that and i was a kootenai international i was allowed to recruit in europe and we were telling them return trails and have conversations so that's really how i kinda got acquainted with it goes through tommy lewis and then i've met mark view through him a bunch of times. We've had some conversations and <hes> you know in donny daniels decided he was going to breath retire and move off somewhere like they had a spot and you know you're right like i mean i. I had to look for jobs. That was paramount contract. Look for job ought to take a job. <hes> like me. I had income for you know three more years but <hes> you know gonzaga was one of those places that you know especially and to be able to coach under all of fame coach mark few to be able to you know some respect tommy lloyd. You know we bill lane bryant michelson. Who's another sister here man. I mean they do a great job. You know i think they really felt like i fit a need for them. You know with my energy might use you know i associate coach ban like hold it on defense some things i can add because we help out with and then i was cruising. You know those areas that i i i love. It and i thought it was just a good fit. It was a great fit man and obviously with daniel is being such a you know tenured coach and doing a really good job. I have large shoes to fill but he's been great man. You've been bracing and just kind of legal process so it's just a perfect fit for my family and i and you know there's there's no way i would have let this opportunity pass up you mentioned your family of two kids wife and you are your tried and true christian but there's this if you say if if people don't they raj junior basketball coach there's for whatever reason i think a lot of it is how we covered in the media but some of it is just people's perception reception. The thought is that everybody's dirty. Everybody cheats. What's the reality like for a guy who believes in doing it the right way. And how hard is it to compete pete at the highest level of your in the s._e._c. and now you're at gonzaga. You're trying to recruit top level recruits. How hard is it to do it. The right way. Well first of all i got reiki just had one a new you want my little pictures little gabriel born a new on nice but <hes> but yeah no my save is really important to me and i'm not perfect. <hes> i strive to be christ like i tried to strive to be a guy everyday. <hes> and you know i i try to. I try to apply that to the way that i coach. I try to find out to the way i live and you know one thing. I never want anyone to say that. My success came from cheating. I always wanted to be from hard work. <hes> from you know from relationships from just being a good guy and i never want anyone to say he got that done because he cheated and <hes> so now with that being don't deal with it you know i do i do it the right way and and there are a lotta guys believe it or not. I think that are saying you know you guys who do things around way cheat and sometimes guys you know i don't. I think i don't think is blatantly cheat. Sometimes i think it's legitimate accidents. I mean there's a lot of rule changes a lot of things that come into play that you know don't know about or they forget about those. I mean it's no one's perfect but lately cheating. You know i don't deal with it. You know and i i just i do it. The way i know the way i was taught i learned from bryson homer and <hes> obviously here vaga do the right way and you know that's all i know one thing that may bill self specials a coach shoot and there's a lot of time but i think he relates to players extremely well like he can get the most out of guys like but i would have ran through a law for him you know and he's he's got the confidence that made the team feel confidence but at the same time he had that fire that may guys play a lot harder so i thought he just his just the way he handles his guys. I think for me makes them special and not see me those game. He's he's the mastermind. You can't just have one area and win that between big twelve championships. You have to have a lot of areas that you're good at managing players personalities getting most guys i think is what separated him bruce weber same question bruce is a great teacher. <hes> you know he he he was able to teach the game and and make it simple for us to execute. He's one of the best he's one of the best teaching coaches that i play for <hes> you know he had a he had he. He had a really good way to <hes> but he just he's made a symbol for us and i think that's why he fits so well with our team because he he just broke down and it's it's funny because we played against them. <hes> i got the coach against them and often times they did and and just you know <hes> there skiing their offense and stuff and you know he. He's a great coach. He makes great adjustment in gangs of course against a lot of guys over the last nine years. He's one that stood out. You know just kinda how you know. He makes decisions in games and how he comes back. When you know we run a play we get a score what he runs the the next time down to kind of those three cool besting that bryce drew bryce man. I think prices probably wanted a best offense of coaches out there <hes> he he's he's the mastermind when it comes to getting guys position to do well taking a team and totally change in eh schemes to fit players personalities and players skills and he does a great job of getting the most guys as well you know he's he's very detail oriented and <hes> you know something. I've learned yeah because like i was i kinda was more the defensive side but just watching it over the years you know his play calling and <hes> <hes> just the way he teaches the game. It was fun to see and then he's he's a basketball encyclopedia man. He basketball runs through his veins. Main scott drew origin so that family knows again basketball and <hes> you know it was just such a blessing to be with temporary eight years even to do. They're really close friends fan last last thing you mentioned that you've you've been the defense guy when people prepare for your style of defense. What is it that is unique or different from others. You know i think <hes> you know. There's a lot of things that we did. <hes> i think at at advance n._f._l. That you know really made teams with a pair for us. <hes> i wanna give too much information because if someone hears about it i want them to get my scheme but you know we we get after i love i love love gaps gaffe defense protecting the paint making is shoot contested and test a two to point jump shots and then we did a really good job of like trapping to post you know that was something that i think a lot of teams <hes> had impair for you know for us and we we determine rapid turnover you know and <hes> those are pretty much of our skiing i think separate us and <hes> and a lot of games especially if apple yeah yeah well our first. You're listening to the weird thing about traffic the post. Is you know like your team in illinois one of the first to play with very limited post host play right and so that the idea when i played in college is to post double post post but now i mean how many teams will play with with two bigs very very very very few so you have to kind of change. Rotations and defense continues evolves. The offense continues to evolve evolve as well. Hey i i've already taken up up way too much of your time. Obviously so happy you've landed at a great place and i can't wait to hear what happens next meantime. We'll watch the zags this year and i can't wait to hear your thoughts on your new squad. As you guys start to get after appreciate you join us. Thank you so much now to be sure to catch live editions of the doug gottlieb show weekdays at noon eastern three p._m. Pacific my thanks to roger powell junior for joining us and for the coaching staff let him i'm come on <hes> make sure you tell a friend download subscribe and rate and oh yeah by the way check out the doug gottlieb show every day three to six eastern time on fox sports radio you twelve to three pacific time also in the iheartradio app. We're on the dan patrick channel on sirius x._m. Satellite radio or you can you just download that podcast but tele friend and thanks so much for listening. I'm doug gottlieb. This is all uh-huh. Hey it's clay travis host of the out kick coverage podcast join me every day as i give you the nation strongest opinions on the biggest stories in sports if you're looking for a sports podcast that smart original funny and authentic alka coverage of clay travis the perfect vic podcast for you i even recently launched a brand new podcast called wins and losses with clay travis which features long form conversations with the biggest names in sports business this entertainment listen on apple podcast or the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Billikens Basketball Update with Travis Ford  December 18, 2019

Scoops with Danny Mac

17:56 min | 1 year ago

Billikens Basketball Update with Travis Ford December 18, 2019

"Welcome into scoops with Danny MAC DOT COM and. It's my weekly visit with the head coach of the Saint. Louis University Billiton's Travis Ford. It was a hard-fought win. Surprising amazing tight game with Maryvale last night at Shave Torino. So we'll get into. That will get an injury update with Travis. Four to look ahead to K.. State we'll talk free throw. Oh shooting. We'll talk about a young man that well he made. His presence felt yesterday freshman will get into all that with Travis. Ford coming up on SCOOPS DANNY MAC DOT COM Tom. This is presented by Royal Bank's Missouri. They're having their annual boo bear. Drive again this year. New or gently used stuffed animals can be dropped off at any royal. Oh banks location. The stuffed animals are provided to local youth organisations women save houses childcare agencies and sadly for many of the kids. This may be the only gift they received this year and that Israel banks of Missouri as always our weekly visit with Travis for the head basketball coach at Saint Louis was university and coach. You pick up a win last night and we'll get into that in just a moment but your team is a little banged up. Where where are you guys right now? Physically and congratulations. The way on the win I should mention that will thank you thank you yeah I. It's good to get a win That we can talk about the game. Let's talk about the injuries I Yeah I think that's on French is going to be fine. will know it's gotTa Day by day We're not sure whether he'd be ready for Saturday or not. we're we're again He couldn't play last night We don't think it's anything that's long-term Just gotTa tell you day by day Gibson. Jimmer Sohn You know he might be a little bit longer. We're we're just kind of waiting to see a token to the doctors It's a foot injury right now. and You know it's something we're just waiting to talk to doctors You know we're lucky that Jimmy bail actually got to play last night. Jimmy Didn't get to practice day before he hurt his shoulder and he was kind of a game time decision but he gave it a go. Fred that Still Out No timetable for his return. So you know the nature of sports the nature of Athletics Knicks Nature of life You just you know you never know. We went from being a team. That was you know really really deep in depth could have been a strength into now you you know you gotta you gotTa figure things out but We're kind of used to your. You did it last year and it looks like you're going to do at least for the short time being right now. All your club is nine two after the win last night. Let let's dive into the wane a little bit. That was a lot more difficult than I think most anticipated. But how about from from your perspective well and I fully understand that we we kinda thought it would be a little bit of a bad or we knew we had you know probably At some strength over there and that would probably help us prevail. But you knew you gotta get married but a lot of credit. I tell you I was really impressed with the grit of their team impressed. That's what's toughness They made some incredible shots. I mean I don't know last time I've seen a team make as many believable. Yeah I mean there's one after the other and so you gotta give them credit as they were when you're locked in when you're really locked in I said it's like You know it's like an animal who had eaten in a week. It's amazing what they can attack bigger animals and zero. And it's amazing what you can do. When you're just absolutely focused guest in your back is against the wall? And they knew they were probably outmatched in a lot of positions. But that didn't let them you know it didn't deter them from playing hard and and Man They made shots. So we knew I you know we knew that it was a big game for them. They knew they were gonNA play their best I was a little concerned about a little bit of A. I hate to say. Let down after the Auburn game. You put so much time in Ann Arbor game because we had a week to prepare and such a hard fall game you go down to the wire you're disappointed you don't win And then you gotta bounce back you know. Basically two days later and play a game So that had me concerned learn and then you add it in all kinds of drama. Dan that goes along with injuries. WHO's playing not playing even your player's GonNa get caught up in it Not You know. They don't know who's ready to play. We didn't know assign was a you know. We didn't know about him gifts in so a lot of mentally played into. But I don't WanNa do anything anything to take away from what Maryville how they performed They're you know Their coach Adam ready to go They fought to the very and we were just a little bit bigger But give them a lot of credit. You gotTa have guys step up and boy. Did you have one last night and Terence Hargrove and young man kind of had a coming out party. It was good to see him do that and I know a lot of fans are excited about him coach show. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the game. Last night. Him stepping up but also account where he's at in his freshman year. Yeah so happy for TJ And there's no question. He gave a huge issue sparked last night. And you know I was waiting for the phone calls later tonight last night tonight or this morning. From all my buddy say well why are you playing. You know You hear from everybody fans and everybody everybody does it. That's that's obviously the natural reaction. But you know T J have waited. He has such an incredible attitude last night. Couldn't have been possible if he had a bad attitude through the through the Times he wasn't playing But you know some guys. They've got a wait and when their time comes take advantage of it. They take advantage of the opportunity. And we have seen this coming. I don't know about twenty seven points and all that but we we as the staff at thought the last ten days. He's taken a major step as far as understanding our system understanding college basketball all that goes into his ability and what he showed last night. He's always had that we we know he's got that any but sometimes patience is a virtue urge you patients can pay offer you And you know he just waited his time and that was a great opportunity for him to show his abilities and show that he's ready to go But from this point forward you know. I think he's earned the right Continue to play. He will be getting you know pretty much every game from this point but it. It's not because of what he did. Last night we saw coming and You know we we believe in it just takes some people a little a bit longer. You know coach and maybe you can give our fans a better idea about this and how difficult this must have been for him. But he dealt with so many different high high school coaches and then you're thrust into division one play that's got to be a tough thing to do. All the different systems expectations relationships with coaches and and then all of a sudden well here I am at Slough. I got another one in coach. Ford said that probably took a little bit for him to just catch on in that regard. It's extremely difficult. What what he's been through his high school career as far as all the different systems and coaches that you know he's He's played under it doesn't allow flair to grow wouldn't progress When you've had five high school coaches in four years It it it just his athletic ability. Ah Skill level. I is is good. But he's had to learn so many different systems that there's no consistency on whether it be out a screen or or terminology just terminology How to guard certain action? Everybody might have done it differently. So he didn't get to develop concepts from that standpoint but I can't emphasize enough what an incredible attitude he has and then that comes from his mom uh-huh and dad who are just terrific people and have done it unto credible job of raising their very outgoing happy people very positive people hard working people and You know again patients can pay off for you. Some guys I this. That's the first time something like this has happened in my coaching career. Where a guy maybe has been playing then all of a sudden he gets a chance and just absolutely tears it up and does unbelievable? And everybody's wondering well why what's wrong with that coach coach not playing. Well I understand that my set of people thinking that but that's just it's just not the case Some you know some people just they just need a little patients. Then he waited his turn and now he's ready to go coach from your experience typically and just generally speaking with a freshman. How how long does it take them to get accustomed to? Maybe being being away from MOM DAD or they're cared you know the the ones their loved ones that took care of them. Come to a place that maybe they're not used to and then oh by the way a going up against grown men from eighteen to twenty two twenty three as you. Well know it's different body different style of life all that kind of stuff. So how how long does it take for a freshman usually to adjust in. How do you evaluate like a freshman? Say Well it's a throwaway year or we're trying to grow the kid I mean how. How do you do all that? Well I. It's a major transition for every freshman. I don't care how good you are where you're ranked in these Recruiting police doesn't matter. None of that matters. It's a transient a major transition for everybody. Not just the play. Not just on court four play but just the whole structure and schedule What's expected of you on a daily basis? From the time you wake up in the morning to the time you go to bed had at night from school to tutors to weightlifting to individual work You can go down the line. It's it's it's different for every FRESH IT'S A. It's just a major transition. Some are more ready than others A lot of it has to do with their background of spars where they come from out of their in high school. What was the structure coming from their high school? What was you know You know how what were. The academic standards sometimes What was the expectations? And what was you know the different situations that they're in some you know are more ready to play than others physically Some have to be you know. Some freshmen are expected to play more. Just 'cause there's not as many players in their position thrown into the mix kind of like a Yuri Colin. You know he's ready to go but You know AH obviously I brought him along a little bit slow But there's not a lot of guys in his position So he gets gotta you know play through the fire a little a little bit but you know typically Dan. I'm pretty hard on freshmen. These the freshman on my team now know that I'm hard on them. And now as far as how I pushed the high a critique every single thing that they do and I meet with them individually let them know why. I'm doing that. Because we gotta get him all ready to go and they've got you know they've got to be able to be as mentally tough as they are physically tough But you know we. We've got a good group of freshman freshman that can handle it but you know it is. It's a major transition. You go twenty three of thirty from the free throw line and it's it's Kinda well I don't. It's kind of a bad good way to put this hit or miss sometimes with your team. Free throws so Maybe it's the best way to put it so You know going through that coach. Maybe you can explain to our fans. And and as is I've mentioned to you before a lot of coaches listening to this what do you do. day-to-day free throw shooting with your club to to put them in the best position success. Well well you know there's a there's a lot of things we've been trying to lately You know one thing about free throw shooting. I've learned over the years I've had the best free throw shooting teams in the League. I've had the worst retail shooting teams in the League You know you had a little bit of everything a lot of time. It's the product of getting to the foul on the most and what type free throw shooters are they And for us you know I. It's something that we practice continuously And we'll get into how we do that in a second. But it's that's something in the past that I've talked a lot about to our team as far as you know making her missing Other than just technique and teaching but Ah last four to five days. I've hit our team pretty hard on free. Throw shooting enough is enough You know they know they don't talk about it but I hit him square in the is probably two days ago In the locker room about this. This is ridiculous You know we've gotTA FOCUS GOTTA get mentally tougher because as I told I looked them on the. I just said this is This is not acceptable. Because we're good free-throw shooters you are all good for. I sit here and watch you in practice this every day at the hearing what you make eighty five out of one hundred and as an individual eighty out of one hundred. Your percentages don't indicate what type free throw shooter. Oh you are or we are so now. Let's step up and let's make a step up and be mentally cuff And and and make our free throws and you know and we do a lot of different things we do all the reps where you come in extra and shoot a hundred But we'll be in lately as a team. Oh probably five times onto out of practice between drill stop and everybody goes to a separate basket. Maybe there's three to a basket for four. Whatever it is everybody's gotTA shoot four free throws depending on how many guys are pricing? That day our goal is we've gotTa make seventy five percent of those free throws there in that quick quick segment and if they don't they run what we call a seventeen in one minute and that's Kinda got their attention a little and because usually I haven't associated take punishment with free throws probably the first time I've ever done it But I think it was thought it was time to get their attention. And we've been doing that but there's no secret formula. I don't think I don't think you know Everybody does the same shooting free throws. And you know before practice after practice extras you try to create as much pressure as you can in practice. But as I was telling my staff the other day we're talking about. How can we put them in pressure situation besides just punishing them if they missed by running them? I said we can do every pressure situation but you know now I might have been different. But there's no type pressure when I played you could put me in in in a practice. That was gonNA even closely simulate a game not even close but but we're we're focusing anything on it to say the least fans can rest assure where we're doing everything in our power to try to improve. But here's the other thing Dan. I told our team free throw percentages as a team and that's what's being talked a lot about Within you know the fans media and everybody where we are said where you're at percentage wise where you stand in the country or where our team is in the League or whatever. It doesn't matter when you start a new game those for your percentages what matter in that game what we shoot in this game. I told him that Yesterday morning or the day before him. Four lines I said what matters is how do we shoot him against Maryville. It doesn't matter. What percentage say on paper on stat sheet that we've done the latte first nine games that s so irrelevant? It doesn't matter what matters is how we shoot them in this game. So what what type shooters are we going to be in this game and That's really kind of how look at look at it. You know you you know it. Ah obvious indication but it doesn't matter if you want to step up and make seventy six seventy seven percent like last night. That's wonderful that just just because she said you're fifty percent free throw shooting teams doesn't mean you have to shoot that every game share so that's kind of the approach we've taken but we're we're we're we're being a little tougher on him as far as punishment and and being a little I don't WanNa say negative about it but we're pretty hard about it at this point. We'll wrap it up with this coach going to another non conference with K.. State coming up and Obviously this is a team that you've known quite well from your days at Oklahoma state. How about in two thousand nineteen eighteen? What can we expect in this match up? Well as we know Bruce Weber's A very good coach and you know Kansas State at the top of the big twelve. The last couple of years You know always extremely strong defensively very tough minded defensive basketball team You know the best players from right here in Saint Louis and Xavier sneed data an elite player in NBA player Eventually you know it's GonNa be a home game for them even though it's Kansas City it's a home game for them they play in the sprint center of several times. A year So you know it's We've got our hands folder. A physical team like we are they will match our physicality and It'd be a hard fault. grinded out game. I'm sure both teams rely on defense a lot. Even though we didn't show it too much last night Both not usually rely on defense and rebounding and just tough aggressive play But you know anytime you're going to go against big twelve team You know you've gotta be. Oh you got to be ready for the challenge. Hey coach is always love doing this and we'll catch up next week and let's hope the the bill ten and two good luck this weekend. Thanks so much. Dan pre-k David.

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