20 Episode results for "Bruce MacArthur"

A new look inside the Bruce McArthur investigation

The Big Story

26:51 min | 1 year ago

A new look inside the Bruce McArthur investigation

"It likely won't shock you when I tell you the police don't like to talk about their investigations. In fact, you can ask any reporter and I used to be one for the phrase, they hear most from the cops and the answer will always be. We can't comment on an ongoing investigation, but investigations and, and trials happen and verdict surrendered, and then documents are made public lots of documents. And so if you have the right documents and you ask the right questions of the right cops, you can get inside the most complicated of cases like the task force that caught Bruce MacArthur, who pleaded guilty in February two, killing eight men, over seven years. One of Canada's most horrific cases of serial murder Toronto police faced a lot of criticism over how they handled that case, both for how long it took them to investigate the men going missing and the gay village and for famously insisting just a month before MacArthur was caught that the fact that there is a serial killer that was out there. The evidence does not point to that the evidence does not suggest that. You can judge for yourself, whether the cops were doing their best on a complicated case or gas lighting a community that had little reason to trust them our job, here is not to prove or deny that criticism, but to give you an inside look at what police new and when and how those critical pieces were put together. I'm Jordan eighth Rawlings. And this is the big story, Wendy Gillis is the crime reporter at the Toronto Star. She got those documents and asked those coughs the right questions and put together a comprehensive look at what went on while police were chasing a serial killer. Can you start by explaining what we're learning now about MacArthur investigation that we kind of didn't know when we covered the crimes, or when we covered the guilty plea? Absolutely. What we're learning through some of these documents that came out a couple of weeks ago, are some of the finer, details of this investigation for me the story all started, obviously with MacArthur's arrest, but the sort of an endeavor to try and get some of the details of investigation started with an application that myself. And my colleague Kenyan Wallace put in, in March of twenty eighteen a couple of months after MacArthur's arrest to try and get court documents that would show us some of the steps that police took along the way to arrest MacArthur, but also years earlier, what they'd done to investigate the disappearances of missing men from Toronto ski village. Those documents are called IT Ohs. Okay. It's towns, four information to obtain, essentially, it's the case that they put to the court for why they should be allowed to. Do certain kind of invasive investigative steps such as such as tracking someone. So putting a tracker on their vehicle to get live updates on, on where they're going getting access to their cell phone that could be data could be sort of trying to understand who they're communicating with and one of the most invasive ones that they did end up doing in this case was to get permission to go covertly, search Bruce MacArthur's apartment, and that was obtained through a general warrant. We've talked about MacArthur a couple of times on this podcast, and it's always in the context of rightly, so the, the victims and the community or how long it took to get to his arrest, and that's been a sticking point with a lot of people who have covered this case or even just watched it unfold. Yeah. And, and seeing the work that was done is really instructive to that end. We got upwards of I think it was three dozen IT ITO's from project Houston, which as you know, was the investigation. Into the first three missing men from Toronto's. Gay village scandal, never at them. I'm still buys your Z and Machida K Hon and they went missing in between two thousand ten and two thousand twelve and there was a roughly an eighteen months task force that was formed to investigate their disappearance. And I think one of the most interesting aspects of the most recent release of these documents from the courts was getting a detailed view of what they did during that investigation. We knew that they had identified someone who they thought might be responsible for the death of Scandinavia Ratnam. And that was a, a man out in Peterborough who police believed was involved in cannibalism ring, and it's, it's really interesting to see the resources that went into investigating that individual and not, you know, that does show that these disappearances were taken seriously at the time and they were investigated. Unfortunately, they identified the wrong person. What I think is very important to note from some of the project Houston were is that an and to be fair. Police have also been pretty up front about this as well. Is that the identification of three Brown middle aged men, having gone missing from the village that that wasn't something that was generated by Toronto police itself that came out of a tip that, that came from across the world, a man who thought that he had identified accountable in Toronto, and that was how they began to stop and say, oh, I guess, we have a few men who volunteer this category of Brown men from the village have gone missing. And I think that, that is a really important issue. And hopefully it's actually already been solved because in the last year Toronto police have have created a special missing persons unit that would hopefully now be able to identify the kinds of patterns that come up when you have the same sorts of people going going missing. So you looked at a ton of court. Dr. Kamenz and ITO's and interviewed some of the detectives who worked on the case as you kind of sat down to put all that together and find out how to craft a narrative. What are the first things that stood out in your mind? I, I have to say, I'm really lucky that I was given the time in the space to do that kind of reporting and writing, and I'm really thankful for that. And it was not a solo effort had help from my colleague, and I had incredible editing. From my editor at top, what stood out for me always sort of? And what's interesting is that we got a look at these documents way back in the fall. But because there was an ongoing trial MacArthur had not yet pled guilty. There are his fair trial rights, so all of these documents are sort of redacted, and then after he pled guilty. We got one IT, oh, that was sort of Representative that was far less redacted. So we got more information there. So I guess my point is it was sort of a gradual release of information and through at that process. It always was astonishing to me, the ways in which this investigation could have gone off the rails. Like there were all kinds of times when. There was excellent police work, or there were major hurdles that came up and everything could have gone wrong. So a couple of examples is Bruce MacArthur's van went missing and it was missing for about two weeks. And that was because MacArthur, had purchased a new van, and he had driven it out to a relative's home and police had had followed it there, and they knew that it was potentially very crucial to the investigation. And in fact, it was incredibly important to their investigation. What ended up happening was they saw parked up the relatives home than stopped being there. They would go back and check on it, and it was gone, and that's a scary thing, and it was gone for about two weeks. And finally, they decided okay, we have to go find this thing, and they started checking sort of auto wreckers, and he, he just happened to, to drop it off at a place where they salvage parts. And so the van was pretty much intact, they would end up finding evidence in that van that was absolutely critical. Thaad investigation and that was. Was a very small blood splatter from Andrew kinsman. And what that did was enable the investigators to take Bruce, MacArthur from a person of interest in Andrew kinsman Steph to a suspect in his murder will. Let's tell the, the story of that investigation then from the point of view of the investigators maybe start with when Bruce MacArthur became a person of interest when I show up on their radar and what happened internally. And what's interesting too, is that Bruce MacArthur was investigated during project Houston as well. Right. So that's that's important to know. And I think we've kind of people know that because again, that was one of the things that always comes up as a failing of the police work because that is what it looks like you know, they had him, he was right there and nothing happened until he resurfaced as part of project prison. How did that come about? So project. Prism was formed in August of twenty seventeen and it came about after Andrew kinsman 's disappear. Durance in June of two thousand seventeen that disappearance came only a few months after a man named Salim 'Send went missing. He was also a well known person within the village. So there was a lot of public outcry and concern expressed and Toronto police truck a task force because I think it's important understand that when someone goes missing it is investigated, but I, I mean, I'm not a police officer, but my understanding is that it can be difficult to focus on a single case. When you're at the detachment, they're really, really busy, especially fifty-one division, where this was happening. And so they struck a task force that would clear up several officers give them just sort of one thing to do. And that was investigate Andrew kinsman disappearance and essence disappearance at that time, they had no evidence, as far as I know that they were connected at all. But it made sense for this team to tackle it together a few days into project p project. Prism investigators were reviewing some of the surveillance footage that had been captured soon after Andrew kinsman Steph. And they were able to determine around the time that Andrew had gone missing. I know that they have been talking to neighbors and trying to figure out who had the last contact and as I understand it, they, they knew that he had gone missing sometime in the afternoon. The were reviewing the footage and realize that sort of in the top top right corner. I mean, I don't know which one they looked at first. But ultimately, they were able to determine that there was a red van that came to a stop near under Commons apartment, sort of very close across the street. And there was a figure who appeared to be under Ken's men, who got into that van. And they did not know what that van was they could not see the face of the individual who's driving, and they could not see the license plate. And so to me, that's what is really quite impressive. Is that they were able to take that red van. And determined that it was a dodge. They took it to dodge dealership. And I, I spoke to Mario Wong who was the salesman who spoke the police he was. So he was just very forthright with me. He was like, yeah. Of course, I told them I was I he felt it was really important to do. His part to help this investigation, even though the officers who came to speak to him didn't tell them, what they were doing, but he knew he knew based on some of the sort of the appearance package. They call it that this was a two thousand four twentieth anniversary dodge caravan, what the investigators do is they request all of the ownership information for for those fans for that make of making model. So they, they get the spreadsheet and detective David Dickinson, who was the sort of primary investigator on project presume, he told me that he was at his home. He opened up the spreadsheet at, like, ten pm at his dining room table and search for Bruce. Because Bruce had been written on Andrew kinsman calendar on June twenty six which was the day that he went missing and they had no idea what the importance of Bruce was. But they were able to determine it to be something that they had to sort of test or discount. And that's how an investigation like this has been explained to me is that they sort of test everything until it is proven to be irrelevant. And so he searches Bruce in that spreadsheet and five owners have that name only one of them owned that specific make of the van and also only one of them had any recent contact with police. And so that was Bruce MacArthur, and that recent contact was in two thousand sixteen when a man alleged that MacArthur had a strangled him inside MacArthur's own van, and that he'd gotten away. I mean you can imagine that, that discovery this is a man who is likely gay, who has been accused of salting someone. In his van. And that's the same van that scene, picking up. Anderson's men at the same time that he appears to, to disappear. So I know that that was that was quite a important moment in that investigation. And, and it really just builds from there. What does that put in motion from the perspective of the investigators when they have that, that puts in motion, someone who is a person of interest, he was made a person of interest within a few days of that investigation? It's really remarkable to see how quickly things progressed from there. I mean the day after that discovery is made from the spreadsheet. There's an investigator who's at, at the thorn cliff park apartment where MacArthur lived so they're, they're, and they're learning everything they can about where he's coming and going, there's like a key fob. So that can kind of record your comings and goings. And also it recorded when it was being used to open the park aide. Right. So because they could tell when he was driving. They do get ultimately gets. Permission from the courts to put a tracker on his vehicles. So they've discovered that he's since purchase a new van, and that he has taken his old van to his relatives. And, and that's how it's discover that the man is missing in bats when he goes when they find the van, and they find blood in it, then he becomes suspect. Yeah, yeah. So that, that happens fairly quickly, that's over the course of a couple of months, the discovery of Anderton's blood came in early November. And what's interesting to think about is that, you know, a natural question might be. We'll why didn't they just arrest Bruce MacArthur? Then when when the us by next question, so I guess the amount that, that they found in the van wasn't a lot. I think the the largest was about the size of a penny. And so it's not enough to have a really strong case against Bruce MacArthur. So what they did was they really amped up the surveillance of him not. Only to try to understand his patterns and find out where he's going. That's what the initial surveillance had been about. But now, they're really concerned about pub public safety. So they're, they're trying to mitigate risk that is posed by someone who could very well be a murderer. So all the surveillance is currently on MacArthur. And now that he's a suspect police have additional powers. When does that turn into the holy shit? We got him moment. So they've got they went into his apartment. And as I was talking about, they did a covert certain early December twenty seventeen November as I understand it was really, really warm. And so that would have skewed some of his landscaping patterns because he, he, you know, they'd been watching him kind of moving going from house to house and job to job. And, and in early December all of a sudden, it got cold and that completely changed his patterns, and so that's exactly when they get permission to go into his apartment. And so they go in and they're in the process of, of. Searching inside his apartment, also downloading some of his digital sort of files like his, his computer than they realize that he's actually on his way back and normally he'll be out of the house for a while. But his patterns have shifted, and he's on his way back. They have to leave the apartment earlier than they thought so they'd only downloaded about forty five percent of his, I believe it was his external hard drive, and his computer. There were a few sort of digital things that they downloaded. And so they were only working with less than half of what they might have, if MacArthur hadn't been coming back to his apartment, and that started a more than month-long process of sifting through all of that. Now, I don't know exactly what that entails, there's all kinds of software. And, and that's police are pretty secretive about that for obvious reasons. But they're looking at, you know, whether he's pulled up maps, you know, the content of, of his searches like that kind of thing, they've also done. It's quite an extensive image. Search to but on on January seventeenth hit was one of the project prism team members. His name is Joel manhertz who had thirty minutes to spare before he had to go testify in court. And that was really interesting to me. He just used a little bit of extra time he had and in that time found absolutely crucial evidence. So he, he searched he used sort of photo specific software to run a search. And what came up was what, what we now know our post mortem images of, of men. I can't imagine what it'd be like to find those, but from an investigative standpoint it's, it's really important. So you don't want to say that this was a good thing. This is obviously an awful thing, but it was critical evidence that they needed, and as that day went on. More more images arose, and this is not just evidence that first MacArthur has killed one person. This is evidence that, you know, very strong evidence that he has killed multiple people as we now know there were men who weren't even on police radar at that point. They didn't know that they'd been missing so that those two days, you know, when they found they found those pictures, they decide that they're going to arrest Bruce MacArthur. They know at that point that they would charge him in the deaths of Andrew kinsman and Salim Essen, and this is all coming a week or two after there was that infamous press conference where they said, we have about a month after this evidence that there's a serial killer operating. Yes, yes. And before we get to the conclusion of this, and I'm not gonna ask you to weigh in one way or another. But explain from the investigators point of view how they make a statement like that at a press conference because it did come back to bite them. Right from chief. Mark Saunders is point of view, what he said was accurate and how I understand the investigation. It was accurate. They had Andrew kinsman and Bruce MacArthur linked roost, MacArthur was a suspect in one person's homicide. The criticism has centered on the had identified Bruce MacArthur, as someone who might be involved in some way in the deaths of the other men, and we know that because there was conjecture that was contained in some of those warrants, those ITO's that are filed. So when they're when the police are going to the courts to ask for these powers, they're saying, you know, we think that Bruce, MacArthur might be involved in Andrew kinsman disappearance. That's how it was initially. And then he becomes a suspect in the murder, and also there are these men who disappeared from the village and their disappearances have never been solved. In this causes us. Concern. So it's being the c conduct strongly. They're being put together. Right. I think what has upset many people in the community from what I'm hearing from my sources, is that there was some kind of element of gas lighting that was going on, because there had been you know, this year's long concern that men had been going missing and people were saying the word serial killer that to have the chief of police say that there wasn't there wasn't the evidence to back that up and then only a few weeks later. Sure enough. That's what they had on their hands. That has been destabilizing I think to, to too many people, you can see though. How how quickly it evolved from having Bruce, MacArthur be a suspect in intricate. Kinsman skilling to suddenly being a serial killer. We know that, that actually happened in the course of a day. Tell me about the rest of that day. Then once they find the photos. What happens? So the decision is made to arrest MacArthur, but to preserve the integrity of a major case like this, they have to do everything possible to make sure that Abbott's is not lost. It's important to remember that at this time they didn't know if Bruce MacArthur was acting alone. So there were people that they thought might be helping him. They had no evidence I should stress it no evidence of that. But they, they didn't have evidence to the contrary, either. So they had to make sure that police were in place, and that, that warrants were in the in the process, you know before the courts to be able to search certain addresses that included the Mallory crescent address where we know sadly know that Bruce, had had kept some of his victim's bodies, all of us victim's bodies. So they knew that they needed some time to get that in place, two or three days. So that. Vision is made we're going to arrest him. I believe it was on a Saturday. And I think it was a Wednesday and, you know, give or take a few days in there, and so they decided we're going to watch him, you know, round the clock and get everything in place. But there's a caveat and caveat is from the images, they've found they know that, that it's very likely that Bruce, MacArthur killed one person or more in his bedroom or in his apartment and prior to that the theory had been that Andrew kinsman had been killed in his van. And so police have ways to intervene and, and have far more control when the scene of a crime per se is of the Ecole they don't have that control when it's an apartment when someone's own residence. So the rule the caveat was under no circumstances can Bruce MacArthur, be alone in his home with another man. And sure enough. What does he do lesson? Twenty four hours later. He takes a man back to his apartment alone. And then what happens well, everything the way that I understand. It was it was sort of controlled chaos. The decision is made to arrest. Macarthur immediately. There are already some officers at MacArthur apartment building. Dave Dickenson the primary investigator goes to the scene very quickly and they go up his apartment, and they arrest him and what's really quite tragic, and remarkable is that the individual who he had in his apartment. The core core documents had identified him by a student, John and John had been handcuffed and was naked and black bay had been put over his head. And that's when police went into the apartment they found him handcuffed and Justice McMahon, who was the judge on this case said in, in basically no uncertain terms that he was sure that John was going to be the next victim. So. So it was it was really good that they intervened. What did some of the police officers that you talked to in the course of this investigation? Tell you it was like to work on something like that. That was stale for so long. And then finished so quickly and furiously what I know is that they are really pleased at that they could bring some finality to the families who had been wondering for so long, you know, in that point can't be overstated. These people didn't know what happened to their loved ones. That's different from having your relative be the victim of violent crime. And so to have number one, the uncertainty of what happened. And then, number two finally finding out what happened in having it be so horrific. Those are two different kinds of grief as I understand it. And so, at least to bring an end to the suffering of not knowing I think that has been really big for, for the police that I have heard from. I think it's important to know that there is an ongoing review right now done by former Ontario court of appeal Justice Gloria up Stein. How do the police feel about that? They talk to you about that at all. This was this was officially endorsed by the Toronto. Police chief Saunders has supported this and it's trying to police services board who unanimously passed, basically the for this altogether to be perfectly honest with you. I think that they actually support it because it's going to come out with some recommendations about how did you things better? And everyone can can get behind that. I think. Thanks, wendy. Wendy Gillis is crime reporter at the Toronto Star. And that was the big story, you know where we are by now? It's the big story podcast dot CA, or at the big story. F P N on Twitter or at frequency pods on Twitter on Facebook on Instagram and frequency podcast network dot com is your place for all our shows. We'd love to hear what you think got a rating get a review or just have you. Subscribe, we're on every podcast platform. You can imagine from apple to Google to Stitcher to Spotify to eye-catcher. I don't know if they made that upon on purpose or not. But it's a good one Clare bizarre does the lead, producer of the big story Ryan Clark, and Stephanie Phillips, our, our associate producers and a Lisa. Nielsen is our digital editor Lucas Ianna is our research, assistant and I'm Jordan heath Rollins. Thanks for listening. Enjoy the long weekend. We'll talk Tuesday.

Bruce MacArthur Andrew kinsman Toronto investigator MacArthur apartment Houston murder Wendy Gillis reporter Canada ITO editor Mark Saunders officer van dodge Kenyan Wallace Salim Essen Jordan
Serial killers and their victims

This is Why

19:47 min | 1 year ago

Serial killers and their victims

"Hey before we begin. I wanna let you know about a new show from curious cast that I think you might be into it's called Russia rising Putin's Russia has been accused of using internet. Trolls hackers and even assassins to influence the west this new investigative podcast hopes to unravel. The giant mystery that is Russia with the help of those who know her best Russian trolls. Hackers Putin supporters and even a former KGB spy, join global news Europe bureau chief Jeff simple on a journey to find out how Russia has gone from tenuous ally to a potential global threat. Listen to Russia rising for free at curious cast dot CA or wherever you're enjoying. This is why. I was in a position bound and ready to be killed. I was just a lucky what Canadian serial killer. Bruce MacArthur has pleaded guilty to killing eight men. Now Canadians will have to figure out how to remember those victims without breathing life into the memory of his heinous crimes. I'm Nikki right Meyer. And this is why. starting in two thousand ten men started to go missing in Toronto. In the years that followed a pattern started to emerge. All of these men were going missing from Toronto's gay village. There was rumors of a serial killer. Rumors that police played down. But eighteen years later, they would arrest Bruce MacArthur and now sixty seven year old landscaper. He would eventually be charged with eight counts of murder, as you know, on January. The eighteenth MacArthur was arrested. He has been charged with seven counts of first degree murder in relation to the deaths of Salim Essen, Andrew kinsman, Seru schmo. Moody, dean, Lissa wick Majid's, Cayenne scannon Ratnam and do about Sierra face new charges against Bruce MacArthur, an eighth murder this time victim who was the man in the photo that police had released sergeant Hank. It's Inga gave some details on who. The man was. I can our report that the remains have been identified as Karusa Kumar categorized. Go. How did he do as lure men kill them dispose of the bodies? Well, one man who knows more about MacArthur's process than anyone else is Sean crib? This ban has been in the shell of a person that used to be an my confidence. And and they mourn for the loss of what it used to be. Sean was close to being one of MacArthur's victims and narrowly escaped with his life. He gave an exclusive interview to global news about what happened that day. It was a beautiful sunny day clear. Clear clear sky, Sean I met Bruce on a dating app. They chatted back and forth. But they didn't meet in person until the summer of two thousand seventeen. It was daytime meeting we supposed to be there about to meet him about twelve noon. I believe I went designating meeting place, and that's when I got in his truck when I got in the truck I had a conversation with Mr. MacArthur about a serial killer being large when I said, there was a serial killer. He didn't respond. Bond. It was just like the conversation kind of went into what he does for living. And they made small talk about how Bruce had a roommate but not to worry. The roommate was at work when they got to MacArthur's house went to put on the things that he. Sweet Braun, and he makes me. A drink. This. Drink contained GHB butts. Sean new the drink had GHB NS GHB is a drug that causes euphoria. Put you at ease and makes you comfortable and a little bit of heightens the sexual encounter. There's a fine line with GHB distant date rate drug if you go over if you know what you're doing. You can certainly. Doc, someone unconscious very easily. That day. It was agreed that I would submit to his experience that had been indicated on his profiles his his big things as I know them were. He liked to bind submissive find their buttons that he could push find what their edge was. And then push them over the fear that I started to feel uncomfortable. Dave for the first time was I couldn't breathe. That's I have memories of of not being able to catch my breath throat the beginning. Early on. And that. Made me uncomfortable and put the rest, I win flying up that I that it wants to go home because he wasn't. I felt respecting my limits. He was. Basically. Raping throat. At this point. I started to sweat quite a bit. Which for me would be indicated that had in larger dose than what would normally when I started to feel uncomfortable. I think at that point that may have been the point where it was too late for me to know, what was happening to degree because I think I add may have gone unconscious. I know there has been evidence that has been suggested by the police that I was unconscious and evidence there is. Definite signs that I was in a position bound and ready to be killed. Who is in pretty much for lack of a better term kill position for him. And. I why stopped. I don't have all the information. The police have all I can go on what I think and it's the rebate coming home. Interrupting hit whatever his processes or his ritual and. God for me. I don't know how long I was unconscious. But at that point, I could hear the roommate was home, and I did say to Bruce. I said, oh, your roommate's home? Starting to use this as my way to like and this and. Gathered by stuff, a don't remember getting home that day. I don't remember how I left hadn't dawned on me how what's danger? I was in that day. And how close I was. To not coming back. And that is also something that haunts me gives me guide mayors this occurred in the summer. Halfway through the summer. And the police contacted me the day after his arrest. I was with my partner, and I had brought an article out without a picture of Bruce and said, oh, the the serial killer and then a few minutes. Maybe fifteen twenty minutes later, he comes down to the bedroom with tablet with full pitcher saying this is the man that did it and I. Oh my God. Do you have an open relationship and it works quite well for us. The only thing that particular day the rule that I broke was I didn't tell had where we going. Dot something. That's very hard for me today because I would've. Heidi gone through. I would have just disappeared. The police said found photos that MacArthur had taken of Sean while he was unconscious before the roommate came home. That's how they knew to contact Sean after they arrested MacArthur, and that's how they knew how close Sean had come to becoming yet. Another one of Bruce MacArthur's victims. Don't go into these things thinking it's going to be you you hear about them having to other people. But it's just still blows me away today that this happened to me, I was just a lucky one. That's all the cabin. Anyone? Coming up later in this episode. I wanna talk about one of the victims rather than talk about this dirt bag that everybody else's talked about enough. How can we remember a victim of crime without breathing life into the memory of their killer? You're listening to this is why and national radio show and podcast from global news. Download and subscribe for free on apple podcast, Google podcast or wherever you download your favorite shows. Now. Hi, I'm Mike Brown. I am the host of the dark Poteen God cast. So you're a guy that knows a lot about Canada's darker history while I don't know if. Yes. I am not guy. Mike's podcast dark Putin. It's like a cousin to this podcast. Maybe even more like a sibling to this podcast were both in the curious cast family, anyways, I've been interested in ever since I was a little kid. So I actually was the victim of a couple of violent crimes when I was a younger person. So while one of the things that happened to me when I was younger is a man attempted to abduct me when I was eleven years old. So. You know? And this was all during the time that Clifford Olson was doing his thing is when I had my experience so emotionally by I'm all tied up with that whole situation. But that's why I became really interested in crime and its affect that it has on society and people the victims and their families. So that's why we approach our podcast the way we do and on your show, you do talk about the murders. And the and the case is that have happened in Canada. But you also I think quite a bit of respect to the to the victims of these is that's what our that's sort of our mandate is to do. No harm. You know pe-? These people have been through enough. We do bring up cases that some people are starting to forget about for example. And I don't know how this has happened. But some people didn't know who Clifford Olson was and Clifford Olson was always horrible monster who lived. In Surrey c and did his nastiness in the lower mainland here killing eleven children. We found that some people didn't even know who this guy was so as a result his name is not only forgotten, but these eleven victims are also forgotten. So when we did our when we did our episodes on that we approached it from let's talk about these victims I and not even name him until later on when the police are kind of onto the sky. So we talked about him as the monster. And we talked about are victims as a young boy who's nine years old. Didn't really do anything other than wanna go for a bike ride and see his buddies and disappears. So I think that's what gets forgotten a lot of times. We've heard a lot lately about the Ted Bundy tapes on on net flicks. And how people are upset that the victims did to get more attention. I I totally agree. I think there should be an hour long show on each one of these people who get who could take away rather than talk about this dirt bag that everybody else's talked about enough. And you know, it's I'm I'm a little emotional when it comes to that stuff. But but the way you approach it. I think is is very honest to the way that these cases unfold, you know, I it first happens with one victim and the next victim. And then the next victim. And when we talk about a monster. Like Bruce MacArthur starting in the early two thousands. It was right. One victim went missing a next victim. Yes. Went missing. Yes. And it wasn't until you know, my Jenky later. Centrally exactly the actually found out the monster was yes, exactly. Let's talk about. The Bruce MacArthur case who is Bruce MacArthur. Well, Bruce MacArthur is now a convicted serial killer of eight persons from the LG btcu community in Toronto. He was also a landscaper. He was also a dad he was always eas-. Also, a grandfather he was a family man, who somehow, you know snapped. I have other opinions on on where he started. Because if you look back there are there's quite a lot of unsolved murders that they believe were happening in the nineteen seventies in Toronto in that community. And and then they all of a sudden stopped typically when it's. Believed or it has been believed when a serial killer stops, it's because they're in jail or they've died, however, BT K and the green river killer have proven that those two things are may not be the reason maybe these guys are trying to stop on their own. And they have you know, tried to have a normal. Life and MacArthur may be one of those guys who he got married, right? He had kids, and then he had a focus that kept him away from that life, but over time that obsession that he had with with murder and deviant sexual behavior. Drove him back into doing the things that he was doing. He ended up being divorced after his kids were grown. And and I think that's that's probably part of where it's just like. Okay. Now, I can go back and do my. Thing. I don't know. We've talked about his job a lot when discussing this case. And that is for well, what has become a very obvious reason was a landscaper and that ties into how he hit some of these bodies. So essentially, what he did was he had access to this property that he wasn't just there landscaper, apparently he took care of this property for people when they were traveling as well. So he would look into making sure that everything was okay. So he had access to a place where he could be all by himself. It was quite isolated be all by himself and not have. People breathing down his neck, it wasn't his own home. So he didn't he wasn't afraid of giving himself up there. So essentially what he did is he buried. Seven of these men. He dismembered them in buried them in various pots around like flowerpots, and and in different places around the yard, and they found after he started talking. Down in the ravine from the home, they found another body which brought his total to eight so. Do you think that one day Bruce mcarthur's name will fade away in the memories of Canadians? Probably hopefully. I don't know. But at the same time, those victims of his something, I don't know. It's it's really tough like you want that guy never to be erased from history kind of thing. But if you do that, then there's those other eight people of the who also disappear. Well, that's the fine line. Isn't that you don't want his name glorified or his name to be remembered? But if it's forgotten are his victims as well. So what's the best thing? Then that we can do to make sure that we keep our focus on the victims. And not forget their names. We'll talk about who they are talking about where they came from talk about the things they like to do when when I read a true crime book. That's kind of my age is how much attention to this author pay to trying to figure out. Who this young lady was who make picked up by a trucker and murdered. You know, did she prefer apples to oranges kind of thing? I I wanna know those things so I can I can connect with that person as as a real human being and not just as you know, a murder victim. This is why is produced by John O'Dowd n me. Nikki right Meyer. It's a national radio show and podcast. Download and subscribe on apple podcast, Google podcasts or wherever you download your favorite podcast from a big special. Thanks this week to the guys from dark Putin. That is also a curious cast podcast. It's all about true crime. And like you heard they really focus on the victims story, you should give it a listen, and you can find it wherever you're finding this show online. Thanks for listening. And I'll talk to you next week.

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Introducing Uncover: The Village

Dr. Death

40:28 min | 1 year ago

Introducing Uncover: The Village

"For seven years men were vanishing from Toronto's gay village. The community always suspected a serial killer. And they were right in the new season of uncover the village host Justin Ling investigates to spates of brutal murders forty years apart. This is episode one. How can you not see this? You can hear the second half of the series right now at CBC dot CA slash uncover or wherever you're listening right now. Maybe you've seen the headlines in February two thousand nineteen Bruce MacArthur appeared in Toronto courtroom. He was sentenced to life in prison for killing eight men. Macarthur's conviction answered some questions painful questions ones that had hung over Toronto's queer community for years, but it also reopened old mysteries. Mysteries that go. Back decades to a time when being gay meant being a target to win the community had to defend itself because police wouldn't when the closet was for many just a safer choice than coming out to a time when queer people were winding up dead and their killers were getting away with it. Our story starts in two thousand eighteen. Green yard if flowerbeds. This is the section in the middle of it. They tore up last winter and Doug down a few feet took weeks. Of course, they don't call this powdery road area for nothing to ground is wrong. It's a sweltering day in August. I'm in the backyard of tucked away house on a quiet street in Toronto. Here was all green until they came two weeks ago. You can imagine the mess. That it made Karen Fraser lives here. She is an unlikely central figure in this whole story. She's showing me your garden, or at least what's left of it. England can side of this hill. I've known Karen for the better part of year. She's slight she has a head of swept back red hair big Brown eyes, and an oddly endearing sense of humor that is what kept her saying. I think throughout this whole horrifying ordeal. We have deer. Come now. Her secluded backyard slopes down to a pair of railroad tracks beyond that is a deep ravine. Eliminated. Yeah. It's a leafy hideaway in the city. It's also the perfect place to avoid being noticed. Compost pile in the corner for leaves in the fall. And apparently it had things. And then over around here, we'll have to the whole reduce data kits for the major. Just a month before investigators were here combing through her yard her garden and the wooded ravine below they sifted through the dirt and the soil one bucket at a time painstakingly looking for clues it would become the largest forensic investigation in Toronto police history. They scoured it basically scoured it all the way down, but they didn't find anything back here in the end. The dead. Basically all over the ARD cheese. We had a lot of lilies until reply Phillies. Karen is trying to help me picture her yard as it used to be. There were flowerbeds and big colorful stone planters. To daffodils along near lots of Perry. Wing coke. I like it because it starts very early in the spring. You get something all of this was designed and maintained by her faithful gardener, Bruce, and he took good care of it. It was quite lush should Bruce. How does run of Karen's backyard conscientious? Very professional very talented, very kind. Their families had known each other for years. We got a call from Bruce sister saying that her brother had just purchased a gardening business. And she said, I understand you have a double garage, and you're not using it. So simple arrangement. Sure he could store his things in our garage. If he would cut our lawn when we went away on the weekends in the summer and over the years he expanded. He decorated all pots on the property gave us things at Christmas. Yo- it just it grew. Was never social. It was just a nice working relationship. Simple. Not complicated. But it wasn't a one man job. What do you remember about the people who went the hand when he was landscaping your place? Many of them were. Obviously newcomers some were quite shy. Most we saw once sometimes just head of hair going by the window holding up to hanging baskets. We didn't actually meet him at all. I think of all the men who met the horrible fate. I know I met one I think I met a second, man. One time very shy stared at the ground, and Bruce, and I were bantering back and forth. And I could see that demand. He had with him was staring at the ground and laughing because he found it funny to second man, I really felt sorry for him. He was off to the side. And Bruce was annoyed with him said. He's just not going to work out. Since all of them appeared to be amateurs or or very new. I didn't know what this poor man had done. His clothing was not as nice as many of the other men, and I felt bad because he seemed to be really trying had no idea what he was doing and about a month later. I sent Bruce in Email and said, so how did your new man work out? He didn't respond, and it was never mentioned again. Memories of these men stick with Karen. She tells me she had forgotten their names and their faces for years. But now she can't stop thinking about them. All because of what happened on a cold day in January two thousand eighteen about ten thirty in the morning. There is a severe pounding on the door. So I came down expecting a delivery and look to the street, and I turned and two men in navy blue and one of them said, are you Karen Fraser, are you? Karen Fraser, you've got five minutes to get out. There's been a serious crime. Bruce MacArthur has been arrested. My name is Justin linked. This is uncovered the village. I'm an investigative journalist, and I've always been on the lookout for stories that have been passed over or forgotten and four years ago. I started working on a story that was both look good people. Just don't disappear cars located, but he was nowhere to be found. It's it's kind of like, I feel terrorized a string of queer men of color had gone missing from Toronto's gay village between twenty ten and twenty twelve for a time fears of a serial killer stopped the village, but the fear faded away the police closed their investigation the media moved on. Still those disappearances nagged at me. This was personal. This was my community. It started to become clear that their sexuality and their skin colour made them easier to forget easier to write off. But I never imagined where the investigation would go just how awful it would get. This is a story about missing men. Yes. But it's about so much more than that. It's a story about homophobia and violence against marginalized people. It's about a community that demanded answers and didn't get them until it was too late. Right. Toronto's gay village is only about three city blocks. The main focal point is the intersection of church street and Wellesley street. It's not hard to notice that you're in the heart of gay Toronto. There are pride flags hanging from shop windows and telephone poles. And as you walk up church street, there's a bronze statue of Dafur man with a flowing coat and a walking cane. And then there are the twenty foot tall poles. They're decked out with giant rainbow spirals and on the top is a shimmering disco ball. They're supposed to welcome everyone to the church and Wellesley village, they are incredibly Godley. The gay village has been around in one way or the other since the nineteen sixties early on. There was just a few discrete bars. And then there was the gay friendly travel agency, and then the clothing stores queer as folk a TV show that ran in the early two thousands was set in Pittsburgh, but filmed almost entirely in the church and Wellesley village. For lots of people the villages, a sort of refuge. There's plenty of village residents who were born outside of Canada. But who've adopted it as their second home, others are pats from small town candidate like me, and like, Joel. I started seeing him around the local pubs are unsure street. He kind allowed character. And so am I guess that's Joe Walker came here in two thousand eight from Anna toba, he's very vibrant person. He was constantly laughing. He's talking about his friend scanned arosh. Never everything was hilarious in life. I loved it. And for it. If I was in a bad mood. He would draw out to me and the IB fine to his friend. He was just skin to he had come to Toronto from three Lanka or he had fled a decades long civil war. He lived just outside the village and had a wide circle of friends. It is the same man. Karen Fraser, remember standing in her garden years ago? Like, so many people in the village, Joel and scandal were transplants. We started playing pool either the together or something we did it as a hobby. And I was I wish he was here to hear this giving him lessons because he sucked up first. And I'm HIV he came over very long way, very fast. I need is. Then he started being me. And it was it was like the teacher are getting beat by the student is a really good feeling. And and so like, we bonded the majorly over the games trying to funny, but is it possible? He was a shark that he just you know, tricked you into thinking there's no say, so I wish you could say so I need to hear. But no, he was not that good. And I handed it to him every time. So where would you go to kind of the same couple of pubs? What what? Definitely was our mean spot zippers was a community institution some nights. It was a piano bar others. It was a dance club. But on Sunday it was retro night. Retro night was a sort of Sunday service. It was a mix of those who came of age in the seventies and eighties dancing alongside nineteen and twenty year olds who had just come out. If you didn't get there early you'd be stuck waiting in a line that would sometimes wrap around the block, but zippers was also a place to just shoot pool of friends. There's another pool hall rate on church street than a cat. I remember for life. It's called is it the one upstairs. Yes, pegasus. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Pegasus though is still open with four large pool tables in the back and cheap pitchers of beer every night. As they spent more time together, usually playing pool Jolan scandal became increasingly close, but they never dated they worked each other's type. Me and him kind of no interested in shelter. He was into something completely different than I was. And I was too. I mean, I sure I found him attractive, but I I loved him like a brother I never ever looked at a different way scandal was tall dark and lanky. You couldn't miss him. So it was pretty unique unique style. Absolutely like, he was very fashion forward. He had a lot of jewelry. He wore jewelry on every rings on every finger multiple rings like to choose three sometimes on each finger it normally sounds away over top Gardy. But for him it worked with his nationality. I didn't see anyone dressed like him. He dressed like a part of our culture, but the part of his closer with a part of his own mix. I love fashion a great deal. And so it inspired. It always inspired me to like wind up. But I didn't have enough figures or things to do. So. He was definitely into an older gentleman. Type he had a name for them is called silver Dadis. That was his thing. He is very intrigued and attracted to them and everyone in the my ever met was fine. Except for one person was very very jealous and very very obsessive and controlling and who was that boost McArthur. So how often did you see I McArthur around? He started coming around when scandal was out later at night. He was there every time, but he never went to the normal bars when he was Bruce he mostly stayed with him. I guess at the his home or at the eagle, which was our other bars very dark. It's going nice people in there and everything like that. But it is a very good place to hide and the autonomous. And then so what was scandal? Lakewood bushes around a he was constantly to he was constantly trying to console and reassure him that things we're finding that. He was not looking at someone else in that. He was just with him at first I didn't realize what they're arguing about. But after a while it was happening so often that I I could see his face. He was almost frantic to make sure that he was okay. And Bruce was always looking like he was ready to leave and always like in service scolding type of way talking down to him. He just he always wanted to make them. Chase them all the time. So. Was jealousy. I think he was his way of control. I kind of faded from him at that point for a little while of hanging them, we still play pool not every day to honestly it actually stopped being everyday for. Well, he was with predominantly. And then all of a sudden, I did see him. But he was talking about him at the time. Like, I was with Bruce. What do you see guys kind of like when he wasn't around? I try and give them the gears about him a little bit. And he always like, oh BRUCE'S this. And he's, but you know, he's got a good heart. And he always good people. Joel was nearing his wits end despite scandals insistence Joel nude that Bruce was bad news as the weeks went on that summer scandal was around less and less. He was with Bruce. Joe made another effort to see his friend, and he showed up for a game of pool, but it quickly had to leave. I think he's not called by Bruce, and he just left really fast. And I remember thinking like this is getting worse how he's just ninety giving your crop. I remember being a little upset with actually the week or two before because he was just collecting everything that you don't be does and thinking he could he could just come back to me. 'cause I'm sick of phony him China sets things up, but he's never showing. He's never. Doing what he said he's going to do it. Just changes t- complete changed overnight. Scandal didn't show up for work on Tuesday, his friends couldn't reach him. And when they checked his apartment they found. No sign of him. He he'd gone to poppy recently, the husky. And that thing would go everywhere with them. It was like alpha his best friend. It was a beautiful dog. And the next day when came about that he was where we supposed to be all over the place for the tire day. It was brought to our attention that his wallet ID dog. We're still sitting at the house. Skinned friends. Didn't know what happened? But they knew something was off. They covered the village missing persons posters. The even searched nearby refines conversations wet shove fluff too. So you heard he wants to go off like that. And started everyone would change. I came down to the play bar. It's it's like a big O dry. Creed bar had there's a cork board downstairs of listening people at concerts and events and everything like that on there. And I saw somebody ripping his pitcher down because they didn't know. And I took their papers rip them half all of them. Put his ripped page back up there. Really really loud. And I said this is on here. It was becoming an anchor of not knowing there was just nothing to go on. And it was just like he was just picked up off this planet and taking by something we can alien abduction or something like that. Because that's how just hop. It. Just the guy was in everybody's life. And he was a major part of the seed he came through different worlds all at once at he somehow fit into all of them and. Just. Watched closer. Skinned Araj never at was seen leaving zippers on Sunday night Labor Day weekend, two thousand and ten after one of those icon ick retro nights. I was told you Slough seated Bank actually under some Bank CARA taking money out with someone else. And they couldn't tell who it was. Yeah. That's what I thought. Joel says police found security footage of scandal withdrawing money a few blocks away shortly after he left the bar. That was the last time he was seen in public. Who told you that? I think it was just France like really really close friends is out for hearing exerts for what the police were telling them. So you're anything about what they would have said about the other guy that was on the security, but they couldn't see his face even like height build it had to been hand. I guessing I mean, there would be no reason for it to be someone else. If he went missing that day that was a day. He went missing for a reason Joel says that chrome of information is all shared when you're dealing with the gay community. There's some hard feelings from what's upon a time. Forget that. I remember thinking like you just don't care because his his sexuality and whatnot. But I really I know that they had nothing for the longest time. Joel didn't have any answer says to what had happened. So we had to come up with his own explanation. I had to come to some sort of was that he had to relocate. That's where I left to auto. Vicki that's that's why would stay with that. He just is there some days going to get messages on my Facebook. And it's going to say, hey, I'm okay. A forty year old man from three Lanka vanishes from Toronto's gay village. He leaves behind his wallet. And his newly adopted poppy is left without food. He was in a controlling relationship with an older, man. It was mysterious. But it was only one case. So child's property sits dirt road, the very end just on the water. It's pretty secluded. Pretty quiet. Little. Kyle Andrews was a transplant in Toronto's gay villages. Well, he's originally from a small town in Nova Scotia. And that's where I find him. Hundred meters you will arrive at your destination when he was in Toronto. He was an activist and a familiar face on church street. Now he's living a quieter life in rural Canada. Used to go to zippers on Sundays to dance in the back and sorta hang on the other side because I was nervous about dancing until you know, good east coast boy couple running cokes and few years or shots. Something coolers, probably then and just felt like when being gay wasn't cool. It was like a camaraderie. I'm here because I want to know about Maggi K on known to everyone as Hami. Cayo and honeyed we're close very close. And then at. Either the black equal or Timothy's because we've known each other so long and. He seemed to be alone and. I thought it was tracked and said hi and over maybe a year and a half we traded phone numbers starting to hang out and whenever we'd see each other at the bar by other drink him. And I had connected because we're both Ghana in the corner. Vire cells. Honeyed had come to Toronto from Afghanistan. And even though you think Afghantistan, you don't think there was a disco scene. But there was we would be listening to the radio like chum FM would have a lot of eighties hits. And it'd be like all I knew the song. And he know all the words, but he would know the artist, and he could sing he could belt out a song quite well. And. He would play for me. Some records said he would scrounge up through, you know, friends at the kebab house Hammeed fled Kebble amid war but found refuge in Canada. When it came to Toronto, he came with his wife and kids, but within a few years honeyed realize something about himself. He was gay. Well, he had said to me that when he first started to explore who we thought he was as a gay man, he would go to openly spa, and that was kind of a mishmash of different cultures in Ganz straight. Eventually Hamad left his family, home and moved into the village. He began living his life as a gay, man. But still honeyed struggled to find peace. He came all this way to be happy. And he still hasn't happy. He couldn't come up to his family. He couldn't really be himself to everybody that he cared about. And that defected him talk about his wife and kids I actually met his daughter wants and his son, and he was very proudly. And I think it was just hard for him because he knew quite possibly they wouldn't accept him back if he was true with them. You don't think he ever told them that? He was guy. I know that they had suspected because his daughter would ask questions, and he would ask me. Well, how would I respond, and I told them? Well, that's for you to decide if it was me, I'd say this. But I've been pound in my little gay drums since I was nineteen and you were forty some years old coming onto fifty and you're from a strict religious background. And I just know that that he would feel that was impossible. Hami to spend a lot of time at the black eagle. That's probably where he met Bruce McArthur. You see Bruce? And I mean together often a few times second last time. I saw humming. He'd was with Bruce MacArthur in his apartment. And e- kind of freaked me out because we were hanging out and. News and marijuana. And we're having a little bit of good time listening to the radio and being intimate and Bruce MacArthur comes to the door, and he'd had a couple of drinks Neum. So I think he didn't expect me to pop in and Bruce was supposed to meet him later. So Bruce came in and was all upset, and he left, and I would have been upset too you show up at a at a dates house. And there's another date there. What's going on at the time? The interaction didn't mean that much. Kyle just went back to Nova Scotia that summer as he often did. But when he tried to reach Hammeed, he couldn't, and then I left him a shitty voicemail shortly after that or in the middle of the summer about how I was pissed off that he wasn't calling me back. I was kind of where he got the drugs. Kyle kept trying when he came back to Toronto that fall. He kept calling. He'd never answered the calls. Went straight voicemail. So you've been trying to call him. You know, how it happens in gay community before Facebook. It used to be a friend would die. You'd never know until you run into friends at the baron the. Oh, yeah. So and so drown or the died. HIV your cancer, they moved away or whatever. Toronto's queer community has dealt with a lot of loss. LGBTQ people. See higher rates of murder and assault. The aids epidemic wiped out thousands from the community over decades. And sometimes people just pick up and leave Kyle has experienced all of those realities, but when he came back to Toronto a few months later, he was still looking for honeyed. And eventually he found him just not where he expected. I he's walking down street, and there's this pitcher on telephone. It was a Toronto police poster in the picture I made is wearing a crisp navy suit with maroon pocket square in a matching tie his smile's crooked and his left eyebrow cocked upwards his full beard is almost entirely gray. But it wasn't just Hammad's picture on the telephone pole. Next to him is another Afghan national emigrated to Canada Abdul Basser feisty. He was known to his friends as just bass here. He was also a regular in the church street bars, which was a shock to his wife and children. That's who reported him missing. He didn't come home from work one day. He went missing in December of two thousand ten just three months after scandal disappeared. In the picture Bassey wearing traditional Afghan dress, his salt-and-pepper goatee matches his black and white tunic. He has a big grin on his face. The third photo was scandal. Scandal is smirking from underneath a tightly trimmed goatee he has a gold earring in one ear and his shirt is open at the top button. The similarities aren't possible to ignore three middle aged men all with Brown skin. All with facial hair. Above each of their faces in red block letters is the word missing. I saw the poster in I called my good friend Christian Annely what the fuck man. Why wouldn't you tell me where it was all over TV in the news? And I was living in a tent in Nova Scotia when I was there. So psyche is in some other guys, and I go serial killer. He probably. Please from fifty one division. Where can missing today hoping these posters will jog someone's memory in a strange case of three missing men, whose only connection seems to be this neighbor. Did not know each other, but they have similar appearances. And they were not. News vans, lined church street and reporters set up on the sidewalks interviewing anyone who walked by about the disappearances. It's hard to think that they're not connected somehow by something. Plenty of people saw the connection. Mita hands is one of them. She's a longtime activist and is well connected in the queer community. Mita invited me to her home. Just south of the village. She's got a wide smile, and she's impossibly friendly. Are you? We're on meet is back patio. It is so hot. I have to keep wiping sweat from my forehead. Sure. Thank you. Indian drink it cools you down like nothing else in summertime. Mita has this wonderful habit. She'll go out of her way to introduce herself to other queer people of color. She sees on the street. That's how she Mets Gandak. A friend of mine was also, oh, we were outside exchanging dog stories shopping at the market and scan the happen to be by. And when you see another Brown queer person as Brown queer person, you get really excited. My god. Look, there's one more 'cause we all know each other and recognize each other and watch out for each other. That that level of connection that's instantaneous of knowing each other's struggles. And he was luckily really like dogs. And then we started talking I had a German shepherd at the time and she really liked him. He was very good with her. He had connections to the community. He had roots here. But that's not somebody would leave. He had given up a lot to become a part of this community. Number red flag when we didn't show up. Red flags everywhere. You know, I know people I was checking in on when the third person the second person had gone missing going. This is similarity and you kind of look like that you're Brown person with the goatee and be careful be careful. And people don't just they don't get up in their apartment. They don't get up and leave their their friends. They don't get up and leave their community that they worked so hard and lost so much to form that when people go into the village it's to seek out something that is not available to them anywhere else. People don't get up in and leave all of that. Without saying goodbye is Mita. Mita Kyle so many others. They all came around to the same conclusion that something was very wrong here. Everybody who saw the posters brought up specifically the word serial killer. I remember hearing it poster serial killer poster serial killer that this is not chance. This is not a lover's quarrel gonna ride this is a pattern. This is a definitive pattern. But as the community came around to the idea that someone was targeting Brown, gay men police were still reticent initially. I think the tones were very civil asking for help asking for knowledge -ment asking for spotlight to Sean on this. Because obviously there's something going on. And when that didn't happen. I think the tone became more urgent and more animated and finally the tone became very angry of wire you not listening. If we see this is happening if everybody we know sees that this is happening. How can you not see this? Why are you not seeing this? How can you not see? This is exactly how most of the community felt it's exactly how I felt. But the police weren't seeing it or if they were they weren't saying so publicly this is officer Tony Vela speaking to queer newspaper extra in two thousand thirteen those are just the similarities between all three men. This mean, anything it's still unclear at this point. It could mean something, but at this point is still unclear the theory that's to be driving the police investigation. And the media coverage is that these men just took off maybe how meat and Basser went back to Afghanistan, even without their passports, maybe scandal skip town. Maybe nothing bad happened at all what we're looking at right now as a missing person investigation. That's what we have is foul play suspect. It's still unclear so right now a task force of officers have been assigned to the investigation the following on all different leads trying to turn exactly what's happened to the three men, and they don't even know each other. There's no evidence. This is just a even knew. So that's what's concerning here. But the key thing is urging anyone that we know who three men are if you haven't contacts police police give us a call, regardless of if you think formations relevant or not call us. Kyle did call he sat down with police to try to help solve his friend's disappearance. The first investigators did an amazing job like they didn't make me feel intimidated like I talked about sex and marijuana and booze in gay village. And they didn't bad ni- or anything you want a coffee, you they were very professional about it. And so, you know, how do you know, how well did, you know? I mean, do you know in of his family you wear you seem last what was he wearing? What did he do for work? Where do you come from? Where do you go? Where did you mean where did you spend time like a lot of questions? It was about four and a half five hours spent with them. Did you mention versus neighbor? Did you say, you know, I said that the Lhasa my talking, and then I gave a physical description I tried to look them up on the internet. And that his name was Bruce, and I didn't know. Oh, surname. I gave them not really enough details to track them down. But they had said that they had other people mention, and they even tried to leave me on like, do, you know, kind of work. Do you do like side with flowers or lawns was Arborist? So they somebody else had talked about, Bruce, but they didn't have enough juice to go. So what are the first interviews? You did they had said, oh, we know that this person's another friend of one of the other guys had mentioned, Bruce. And they didn't give me enough details. I mean, one of the other men had dated Bruce the last time I saw that's what happened with BRUCE'S there. Kyle sat in that interrogation room and gave police the name, Bruce that piece of information that name was a huge tip. Bruce, the landscaper who had dated scandal the one who had been seen with Hammeed before his disappearance that could have been the tip the cracked the case. But it didn't. the police task force set up to investigate the three men had a name project Houston as in Houston. We have a problem. A year and a half after it was started just months after Kyle sat and then tear Gatien room project. Houston was shut down. And in the village men would continue to go missing. Coming up on the village. Oh, yes. So why don't we just dive right in during the investigation. It was discovered that through was two more missing gay men that had the same church heuristic and scandal. So they had MacArthur on all trio. The village is written and produced by me, Justin linked Jennifer Fowler. And Aaron burns Cecil for nana's is our audio producer Sarah Clayton is our digital producer additional production on the sewed by David McDougal. Tanya Springer is the senior producer of CBC podcasts, and our executive producer is our if neurotic. To read more about the series or see photos of people in this episode. Check out our website at CBC dot CA slash uncover. Or join our Facebook group uncovered to be part of the conversation.

Toronto BRUCE'S Bruce MacArthur Karen Fraser Mita Kyle Canada Joel Facebook Justin Ling Bruce McArthur Brown CBC Phillies marijuana Bruce Joe Walker Nova Scotia Lanka
Body Bag Material: Where's my head?

Strange Brew Podcast!

47:01 min | 5 months ago

Body Bag Material: Where's my head?

"Hey folks I'm Chris and I'm James. Did you know that the state of Delaware has had only one serial killer since its creation? Did you know that the state of Arizona has one of the best cases of alien abduction on record? You also know. That feigned untouchable Eliot Ness was awarded by the Cleveland. Torso murderer what in the world. That sounds absolutely terrifying. Are you ready for a road trip? If so please join James and I each episode is we discussed all this and more on state of fear. Podcast riot shotgun on our dark and wonderful ride down. America's byways and highways as we unravel the strange macabre in your state state of fear. Where the things that go bump in the night in your backyard too. Solemn Lane is the fourth Production owner Jeffrey. Dahmer supplied Udub bomber attacks by Hitler death and then escaped man again which plans mysterious toys and hot. When you're feeling all alone with me or against stone busted PODCAST RATES. Agitate about are you ready. Are you ready for it? I don't think they're ready. I will I make you ready like I want you to go. Grab your your nicest robe. Sit Down here. Sit down on your nicest coach putting your earphones touch you in just a little bit. Don't know were teasing right now and get ready. Because the strange brew episodes in a room and my say strange brew podcast. We're coming out you your host billy curvy along always like I know I do the Radio. Voice sometimes y coming at you all and ask you from ninety one five for the fuck and fuck yourself. Whatever Nice we're your host Tom Cat Aka Thompson. And what's my name this time. Another one dude. I've heard every name in the book I could think of one. I need you to think of Billy Aid Siris. No one's Today's in the middle there. I'll give it to you. That was a good one fair game out of this spark. I've spoken to get it right. Oh no you can handle it. Smart of smoking fucking drinking whisky again watching watching to see what I have. No idea what the fuck this is. It's a fucked up thing. We're watching pawn stars. Fuck you cares right now. It was necessary. I know I pray before I went to sleep in. How how did you not know what it was? I washed the ship before I go to sleep so you should have known what it was me. I like Chum Chum. Leave though I used to. I used to call them. Chunky. And I've realized I watched like five episodes condom Chunky to my girlfriend. My girlfriend's like isn't named Chum. Me Fuck that guy caught with guns and math. No didn't really. Yes that's a fucking real story. Another trump was a fucking into math. Are running guns a bunch of weird ship so this will be like a new series semi new series We got rid of did do one. Yeah we got rid of it because now up to strange brew standards and I know we don't have much but big material special syfy toll material that gets you in the mood. Scratch off the serial me saying though cereal. I know what he needs from a good. I'm just saying this lucky. Charms going to have a shit day. I will have to share this out like I don't think hopefully mind but Nacro was. That's from debate material by NECKER. Show that song. If you are listening to shit that gets me off. Listen to neck real an picture. Tom Getting off while you're joking gets me off. In the hip hop style gangster does which is very different. It's going to be self a new Gangsta record step into the Rena Bitch Scott step in the arena hawk. I'm a mother birkenstock boy boy. I knew off vinyl. So bottom bay material series. We'll get into what we dive in anything that you with body parts or weird dead shit and it will be rea- Korean series and this is just the the first beginning the just the tip the tip that lie. Your your college boyfriend told you. What's the name of the Sweetie? I promise you won't even lose your virginity. I'm just GONNA put the Tappan. Is that a real thing. I swear to fucking God. I've heard people say that the people it makes me cry laughing but nobody in the right mind is going to be like okay. That's all I promised. I just said I was only going to put the tip in now. I'm leaving and I'm putting my pants. I thought that's all I wanted. I wanted to know the girl. That's like okay. Well if you promise if you promise. That's all that's going to happen. I guess it could be the same when I was like you know or the other one. How about you blindfolded. While I fought my friends GonNa fuck you. Get that fucking under saying favors. Dumb Shit. People fall for well. Why have so many ghosts babies the first incidence of this is like I thought that pulling out was a legit thing when I was thirteen? It is that we're having sex way too early. I what was going on. Yeah if you pull out. You'll be fine when I pull out. I had an abortion at thirteen high five. No but if it's not just it. Just facts is you. Should that happen? It's facts and I do believe the soul if you would ever listen to other episodes you'll know my theories on Seoul's but the fact is legit was like Joe. I don't need a condom foods. So much better without one. If that's a ballsy move at thirteen. Yeah I do that now. I can't tell you were but I know you've said that but like us me at this age because I had maturity I have. It's my people don't believe it for comportment. Don't be a Horny Bass don't be. Don't come inside somebody. You being sure APP with Mary last longer than forty five seconds and you can polo just fine. You were fucking idiot if you look you look at that you. Do you do a physical exam with a pussy? And you're like to prob you. Let's see to problems all right. Let's go to the two problems. I haven't had any problems yet. This third problem. The problem is you could have nasty de que except I have never so shirt carry on second problem is that your logic is fucking stupid because you can't get pre then. The third one is the era. The first one as you know the first one is what is the second one was my logic stupid. Carry out the second one. That's not that's not I would is in general That means if you were having sex pulling out and not impregnating anyone Your sperm is the most laziest nope not coming in them. You have pre come to my understanding. That's why you have to have to pull out like a minute before they can dominate. You can have it as soon as you start. Okay pre common sperm. I'm knocking much. Pretty come knocking Google search and we're not diversion a third. How many pre come out is actually going to search. How many sperm are there? When a full the Jackie relation save five million? So when you pre come it could be thousand. It could be like one of those. No the ratio does not add up so no that is impossible. Well I've yet. I've been rolling the dice and they've been killing it. Been talking for about ten minutes about this and I'm keeping this ridiculous but my point being is like I do not want you coming to me. One day saying well. I got pregnant and she has an abortion. I would be a good thing. Were too young and too invested in this podcast to ever have a kid. Hey the real reason comes out. Tom Wants me to wear a condom. So I don't have to come on the podcast every Friday. I am sorry if I have children. I said I twenty eight and I said I'm winning two thirty two. I don't care if I'm a homeless guy in the middle of a gutter and I'm eating my own feces. I'm having kid thirty two. That kids can kid. That's my thought that goes through your mind and your friend says he's going to have a kid and you're like that guy is going to be the best. I will be the best show. Ever the finding is I'll have all you're GONNA you're GonNa have a daughter even better. You're going to be like daughter. I hope you sleep. Well the shadow people also a psychic. Toby daughter prior to that. Because I don't know probably because you've been doing this is a also my Karma an Karma yes and that's where I was going to say it's my Karma I've I was it. Asshole drew my teen years. When it came to females and stuff and you WANNA get laid out I wanna get so we do something is that that is Karma and that was just a fucking small preview into what ran episodes could be like their God. But what are we talking about? This haven't here's where's my head so I wanNA get in this. Where is my head Nama Dickhead? Guys were off topic. Weren't a while ago. And this is where we were. GonNa Start Body material to Americans and one British suits in Bangkok Thailand Thailand after a severed head and several other distant dismembered body parts were found in the freezer. Geoffrey Geoffrey Geoffrey. But there's no penises though dino that I like. I don't know that before we get into this homeboys. The two American the two Americans one persistent they arrested in Bangkok which is weird. Good thing there is no Canadians. You won't find Canadians stories like this unless it's over new but a few of the things. I want to dive into Jeffrey Dahmer. Two Americans and one British okay in Bangkok in their fridge they found the head gossipy. A body that they possibly. I might be a body and might be quite. Tell long to a blonde man. How do you know it's the body who will remains on? Deaf are identified so they have body parts in this fridge but it's unidentified because they see a blind head I guess like his severed heads auto. Where's my head? Homeboy doesn't heads at so they they see. If you were to sever head which might take three people that do take three people. It takes a lot to give me a super Fucking sharp acts and a couple of rupees. And I'll take your head off a roof. You make you sleepy exactly sleep and stay right there and wash me just for no. Oh the person you said. It takes three people to take someone's head on. I always say if you're doing drugs before you slave someone's head off with the anger. I'm saying give them a roof. They'd like perfectly still on the table. And then you can just kill them first and then you're chopping up their body August version. And so he killed person like Jeffrey Dahmer against per preserved. You want the cleanest cuts imaginable. So are you gonNA kill him with a without ruining his beautiful facial features or is nice chest. You say that you're really really liked chess gay. You're ruining your your price. So like are you going to sell them? And maybe poised to know that he likes he likes has weird right. I know a bit of Jeffrey Dahmer. Non I'M GONNA go ahead and say not as much as you know the investigators on this case found guns four Ford passports okay. So passports prefer all three of them to Americanism. One fucking British German. He said British and numerous other illegal things in the apartment that housed the freezer of ahead possibly the body and might be a different body. And that's it like what the limbs swims gone need. I've there. They just head in possibly Abbad. Well they said body. They didn't say could be anything really so I could be two different timber. Two Thousand Sixteen. Oh that's fucking reason. She's high type Elise. I believe Thai. Thai police said the ad one hundred identified man might have a romantic relationship with his killer. Oh Shit they're gay they. Police did not reveal the identity of the killer. The sang only the suspect was a British sin. So there's two Americans and British guy and they all at the end of the story. Say we think it's the Brit it's gotta be. It's gotta be the Non Blood of American because no way to measure Thailand. So they're like we like our. I guess I didn't even think of a bad kit that sends the baby. You give me good these are Brad. Play my stoned drunken brain because I am pretty buzzed. Are we thinking like so? I've never experienced watching a movie in subtitles. There's a big motion picture that I don't understand the language and I've watched war movies. That are in different languages. Shit like that which is smaller scale stuff. But I've never like how people in China Japan watching You Watch English subtitles. No they they may get dubbed over to those dubbed over one song she was just. Don't watch old Kung Fu movies. I've seen Bruce. Lee Lee is in Jackie Chan. Movies like drunken map. Those are like I know. But they're not. They're not that much dialogue like out as much dialogue as the other went. Tang loves old the fucking style like it's more just a fighting. You're not watching the. I've never experienced that to see full-fledged a movie on a big scale like the avengers but it's dubbed or it says subtitles. I think they've kept Americans like hey sorry that would be so billy would say but. I thought I'm sorry. Go Non stop. That's weird to me. 'cause I can't understand why because I'm high and I'm drunk a little bit but Lino I get what you're coming from a list Elaine. Arraign Ken Olisa Lane. Rankin was found dead in Houston Texas. Pumpkin Houston fucking more men in your apartment back in seventeen seventy nine was back in the UN from September. Two thousand sixteen to seventeen seventy nine man. I know I know but that timeframe just jumped like that was a significant years going back. Seventeen seventy nine from two thousand sixteen almost two hundred just over two hundred. You're going to make a little better. You sued and Fifty Nineteen Seventies. I Seventeen Mike. You said seventeen seventy nine back in nineteen seven. Oh seventy nine. That's like two hundred and fifty years ago are you a residual high. I think you said Seventeen I would love to go back and find out but not doing it right now. So we'll find we're GONNA leave this in and we're gonNA see who's right and if you don't hear it that means I'm right and if it gets left in that means okay. Her Co worker discovered. So this is this the seventies the seventies you dick. I specifically remember this hurry to Jose. We'll see we'll see her. Co worker discovered her body when he went to pick her up on one morning while her car was in the shop. So okay I need a ride. Lane Reagan's body was nude. Her feet were tied together. She had been sexually assaulted of. Enter head was missing. Jesus Gone Body Bay material. That's fucking weird though. Just like just w weird thing that look at like just a torso with feet tied for like no head over. This motherfucker must've known. Wish you look like method. Because if if he didn't how the fuck what do you mean he must have known? Senator Coworker. How would you could go to someone's house? There's a female body naked eye whatever you could assume but what if it was her doing the killing some other females buddy yeah. I don't follow what you're trying to tell. Co worker comes in comes to pick her up and answer comes in the House and then he just came. That's why I thought you said he did it. No the body always just find the body like that how would you know what your co worker without her head. I can do physical appearance if she was Super Chunky. Like you kind of like our just always thinking about you. Had I've been able to identify pretty damn easy like you'd be like that's that's that's a billy tattoos. That's the only reason why tides to. Yeah Yeah I see stink way too long as as long as you don't call it nirvana like everybody else. If one fucking person looks at me and goes on Nice Nirvana Tattoo. Fucking lose it. If I ever see anyone say that your blink tattoo is an Vonda happens I will physically slap that honestly like no word of a license. Got It when I was fifteen. I I've gone like maybe about three times. This ever happens. I'm going to stare at the person really hard and they say no don't do it. I'm GONNA fucking slap them fucking ridiculously pisses me off. Are You fucking stupid? I'm sorry all right back to this. Like how we're seeing. Her head was missing. A blood trail led from the her bed to the parking lot of her apartment on long trail. But yet he wouldn't. You think you'd notice that is dragging. They obviously the forensic discovered that that's a trail of blood. Fucker dragged which will bring isn't something kind of we will begin to. I'm super excited. Because we've never mentioned it. I'm so excited. Oh we're near. We're doing very soon. Unknown serial killers and there's one from. Edmonton. I didn't fuck and fuck and we're going to get into. Maybe that will be after this one side fact and I want to catch you on the podcast live in case you didn't because I didn't hear about him and this was only a couple of years ago. Do you know about the guy that was killing. Gay Guys Yes in Toronto. Yes getting here but macarthur. Someone brought that up to me the other day at work and I was like no fucking way I'm like. I never even Toronto Grinders. Yes if I could. I could probably find in episode. That was I could definitely probably find episode where I talked about. We're GONNA talk about Bruce Macarthur. No Way yes on it you fucking tied to them so they. They found a fucking trailer blood from her bed to the parking lot. The killer remains on identified. That's what I've seen this. We have an unidentified Cyrillic unknown circular episode. Ever been caught. And I can't wait for that one because I regard months ago when I fucking him so ready for that shared everyone that hasn't been caught and the Rinkins had exter- her head was has never been found either. So the CO worker just shows up like worst of the head for Karen here in return for her name is Lisa Lane. Yeah so are listening lane. So then there's just like you elicit era. Listen it's and some definitely take from this perk little nipples. It's gotta be her. A Fiji is best known for its white sand beaches and clear blue water now murder mysteries. That is until a pair feet. Let's say severed a pair of feet. I guess like you lead feet. No but then you go into a whole different thing like it though. Those are Jennifer's feet. I know those now anyway. I to- pair feet and severed head were found and fishing nets on the beach. So it's like I'm ready to get that perch the fuck and five over the fishermen in the morning I'm trying I'm trying to miss shellfish on and then I'm like okay so I see two pair of fate and their socks off on the severed head. I feel like they take the socks off. Tourists found a grisly remains so as a tourist fishing and found the grisly remains of. What believe was maybe a Russian tourist Yuri and an Italian ship. Lyn Okay. I actually did that. Pretty good. So fuck show is literally. I didn't say anything. He's literally Yuri in Italia ship. Ulan the couple rented a farm in Fiji until they disappeared in May two thousand sixteenth. The vehicle was found nearby on a beach with the keys in the Nisshin. Creepy BATTERIES DEAD. But Yeah on a Fiji beach and like Russian tourists like do Russians tour often but still. It's still creepy. You know what? Wow that's weird side point. I have never seen a Russian tourists. No Russians do not tour off unless they leave their country. Because you're not allowed to Russia's yes it's not Cuba it's northern blows no way yes it is man who is not only can lead so gay believe South Korea and North Korea fucking totally two different fucking exactly what I said but Russia under like Sir laws. Yes they're not travel not that often and if they are to apply for certain. Shin this country. I didn't know I didn't know they weren't alive. Lease almost call Chelsea. Because I feel like the saying I explained to my girlfriend like are you fucking sears. Your come on no but like I don't know I don't think that's Common I. It does not a common knowledge thing. They have certain North Korea's the only country that everyone knows. You're not allowed to leave. When I went to Cuba I met Russians which I was stupidly drunk on my second night. 'cause I couldn't remember where I was like. I'm dead serious. I was drunk. My cousin found my. We're all in different places and this is if you go by show people you learn about what happened to Cuba. But I was drunk. And I'm like the first artist in Cuba. I'm Nineteen K. I like Swiss Chalet Times our first fucking that drunken the world's ending in two thousand twelve coming over a hundred thousand dollars. I'm knocking on doors. And this Russian lease fucking the shit and I find it very good-looking blind but very young and having children like her kids were in the place. They're like looking over the coroner like what's this drug Canadian yelling at boat so they're not really allowed to look. It is true it would be very like rare that the fact that if we got Russian listeners which I know we have a couple but it's very slim to none because there she gets monitored so much the shoot we fucking say they're not gonNA be fucking listen. It gets moderate. I didn't think that Communists I didn't think it was. The level of north. Korea is pretty little ninety. Putin is nutty but I I knew he was not so get back to the so they find these remains. Russians all right. The couple rented a farm and then they disappeared in. May Two Thousand Sixteen Russians right so the vehicle vehicles found my we were talking about and so also inside was Natalia's which is like that. As a very Russian battalions clothing and passport were found inside this g bouquet the head and the feet no other body parts have been recovered and there is no other suspects. Either THE ORANGE JESSICA. They know these tour showed up in in Fiji okay. They were from Russia. Natalia is yeah. There's definitely some suppression and yeary. Yuri is Russia. I think is when I was in Cuba. That sounds bad but communist name when I was in Cuba news guy named Yuri. Okay stop looking at dude. I can't help it because you know what he's selling right now. Still watching it. Can we go back? But in selling antibody that's weird. Can we go back and fucking deposits for later? Yeah positive whereas I don't know who cares. We'll find out later. That's fucking crazy. He's shown a Ted Bundy fucking. No I think it might be a news letter. It was a. I think it was a letter to a fan. That's crazy K but I knew a dude in Cuba that was named. That's also anywhere in shape and he was. I listening to music my backpack like fucking rap music like obviously moral technique and passed on on. This guy was like I love music ever g Mex. Suck my did so my dig. Yes I knew. Houdini Mexican our shared download music. Brady's find that like that. Yuri is is more of a sounds bad. It seems like a communist name. This back in two thousand fourteen severed head found in the wooden area of beaver county. Pennsylvania tests showed. The woman died from cardiac arrest which means she died from a heart attack and her head had been embalmed. So it was ahead. That was already went to the coroner already fixed opening. Guardia. Went to a funeral. The also revealed the wound probably grew up near the area. The HETERO was roughly cut from her. Body roughly underlined cut from her body and red rubber balls have been placed in her I sockets. Oh that's so fucking era. I don't like anything about the is is fuck can. I can't handle it. That's weird. I like if I was blind. I'd have to wear glasses. I can't wear contacts. I can't put eyedrops in fucking hate. Anything anybody talking about is being touched or testing despite creating a full facial recognition. No one has ever come forward to identify her ever. Isn't that weird? This head was found in a wooded area in Pennsylvania. And would they know that was like it's like how big of public service they wouldn't have put that on the news or anything they might have. Have you ever seen this face? Have you just take a picture of his body? I know it's a reconstruction. They did reconstruction bold of the face and with the kind it down that shirt. That's have you ever seen this woman. They have definitely done that joking. No you're a murderer to reimburse the rest of the body was never found either. It was just ahead. That was already embalmed stuck in a forest in the body. The body got bombed too and it's sitting in somebody's closet uncomfortable. Now he's dirty. No one don't win followed bad on June tenth. Two thousand seventeen super recent. Oh fuck police. Found a severed head on the Porto man's house in Jackson. Mrs Uri Missouri Missouri No Mississippi because MS is Mississippi. Isn't I don't know? Mississippi lack sauce. Not Sure Alexis. Yeah maybe I yeah. I don't know his Mississippi the State of Missouri the State Mississippi Missouri isn't it? Oh is Mississippi yeah our guest Missouri. Mississippi is Missouri in Madison Mississippi. So I don't know my station. So is in. Mississippi so severed head was phone Jackson in Mississippi. There was no body only ahead just ahead like just heads men. So Chris like we're the body and it's probably somewhere buried but why is the head so complicated in these stories where it's like? Kazan creepy as okay. So it is Halloween newer like leave Jacqueline. Cut The fuck nine Jackson police. Department spokesman Torri Jones said the head belonged to a young black male. Who's not yet identified? No one knows why someone would leave ahead on a porch at the scene. No onlookers speculated someone sending a message. Why else would they do this? It's got to be. Yeah it's like that's it that's it won't you gotTa dig deep into that person was maybe that person was like a challenge. Coming in the fact that there's no body found no one can find the body and there's just ahead on a porch and that one of the one of the speculators from like seeing all this was like well they must be sending Amiss. GotTa be that's gotTa police. It'd be like it. It's a black eye. Let's just leave it where it is which is terrible but especially in Mississippi not fair enough fair to say that but it's not fair for them to do that often cases. Oh it's a person of color fuck it and I don't like that I would rather little fuck. You got a little better story. Go Missing and then have a little fucked up bitch. That took my no I. I'm just joking but I'm saying then general that it's bullshit they don't like oh there's a little white girl fucking ambler gone crazy. I seen a number learn about a black guy. We just had an amber alert. Wasn't that a black guy. Good for once. Tom's hit a sauce for a severed head in a bag as well as a number of humor remains were found and McKinley Park Lagoon in Chicago Illinois in September. Two Thousand Sixteen. The these are also known park. Employees TASKED WITH CLEANING UP. The lagoon made a gruesome discovery with the discover. At this time no details have been released so the gender identity the Dandy of the head and the body parts even if they've been discovered by the same person remains unknown. Moshe so no one really knows who it is and the gender. They don't know nobody knows. That's fine under the gender that's it. I didn't know the gender from looking at a justice ever net. Yeah no maybe if it was just skull you should know the fucking gender by looking at the head too much. I mean there's somebody fucking like severed your head. They'd be like that. It's a transgender LGBT. I just had to go back to your name if you like. I added go back to Joe Rudely posted on the page. Yeah I knew you would say shit but the thing is that this is weird like but the thing is say you only find a severed head of a victim you know what gender no but yeah you can measure cheekbones size and all of the ship or facial hair. For example Michael Jackson you find the severed head of Michael. Jackson is that I had no would you? Because you fucking fuck is mouth. That's exactly why I know him to be nailed. It that is why on March fourth two thousand for my my Dwayne. Hey where's the Actually changed the. Where's the head severed from the bottom of the neck of the top? We don't know if it's just the stories about severed heads. Does strange brew really need to go into detail. But we're these severed heads come from our wider there. No if you wanted if you wanted to discuss gender maybe because of the neck they could see. I barely have an apple. My woman or you can feel an Adam's apple. Can you feel mine actually no? I don't even talk. Never not now. All men have an apple. You retarded I just said. Tom Does skinny little bug-eyed creature's like you that are from the fucking fourth dimension. Yeah you're sort of scared. Don't do this like a quarry worker in Cambridge Shire. It's it's hard to say Cambridge Shire so the Cambridge a city that actually lives in what Shire Cambridge pawn of Cambridge in English today by stumbled upon severed head on the ground. He I thought a quarry worker accidentally so worker is like that someone from the Flintstones who bashes that rocks walks from a small sum from time to Time Corey workers. So that's when he was like gone. Yeah pick ax in fucking bashing. Oh I'm the hardest working. He thought it was a mannequin. Ted Okay I'm bashing. You would not think human right away. There's no way you would know. Yeah because I would never lodge okay. This is happening to me. Ray No you just like this is a joke. It was a dull head is the yeah. That was what you would think. Incisa still had hair and eyebrows and it showed a few signs of decomposition. Police determined that the head was cut from the body and had been dead for more than a year. Oh Jesus and they traced it to a construction site from Shampoo Brooke bed Ford Shire I get. Why the weathering Zola shy? Yeah Izzo said Bedford's show like Burford. It's like bed orders. Whoever nobody parts have ever been found the head is still a mystery for fucking years this quarry worker. I was bashing at rocks found ahead. We can't find a body and it's been fucking years and it still there. That's fucked is that roy gets engulfed in mother. Three all these things I get. I got one more story for you. Buddy got some ready do into in February two thousand eighteen. I twenty six year old. Us tourist was resting Japan after authorities found a woman's head in the tourists suitcase in a circuit car. Sure Japan so a Sokaia just say Japan. Police had previously found dismembered body parts of the woman in two other cities in Japan. Oh Shit like how far away I don't know but when the fucking police it'd be fun to be like I got her arm over here and we got a toenail the victim who has yet been identified as twenty seven year old woman from Sandra city. It's called Sandra City. What who named this pressure named Sandra Bullock mock? He'll I'm not going to do an Asian accident. Authorities believe she met the tourist. I dating APP. The women allegedly told French. She was being an American tourist for drinks on February fifteenth. And she has an eighteen all two years ago when she stopped answering calls or family reporter has missing. Two days later she was dead. Enter only your head was ever found. Had So fucked so far I just WanNa know like the the level of psychosis you're going through it if you like. I'm I'M GONNA get rid this head because this doesn't fit his body I put different has on your and you're gonNA enjoy it so we had fun doing this. The whole point of doing this. We want to get into by material one half finding this episode that we get Iran episodes. We're GonNa have fun doing this. We have a fund because it's time for love it so we're going to stay on topic was heads to Dublin. To what makes you taste other whiskey strong or made you taste bud. What is really? Do you want me like make a Jig guests. Yeah try try. What makes you taste is not interesting there? You go from facts. I don't know because I think. Oh it's relate your brain but it is your tongue but that's not what I was getting a if you did not have saliva you would not be able to taste anything really if you are saliva. You cannot taste thing that bitches show on my car. They taste the extra herpes on that one. Isn't that NEAT though? Like salivas actually the part that makes east. But let's go sure yeah saliva like if it's not but but it is clear like making lists you would not be able to taste anything you would have zero. How long do we have to make a dude? I'm a Slavic motherfucker hoping I just learned how to not draw myself fact aside anyways second bag because we're talking about The bacteria of like how you could literally that was last week. Great we how you can rub your your wound on your asshole. It'd be less infected than your mouth contains much bacteria as there is people on Earth. Wow that's a lot of bacteria about that when you go to. Www podcast dot com. Next time you're fucking making only might have a new song. Whoever knows we don't really know 'cause I don't know she don't she don't know whatever you listen to whatever like. I know if you're listening to check out the end of the episode song. Tom Kaku Yay look up on the Jersey will fucking kill we six offensive slur John Lewis Dot com. All my strange is chicken. I love you bye cases. I do to make an appearance at home now. There's interfere no one. Can Handle Ma weirdness stance careless? Here's marina thought to myself. Well share intelligence disappear escape catch is taking medicine. Relevant ever been now is and I hope we they help around Prideaux show do that help in my hand and follow me. Say a plan no apologies. I've been aspects. Don't bother me deep in lies. No faith in men. Cicada me no surprise when Aliens Arrive War. Barbarian is prepared a scary night screaming. I don't know where to hide hovering spacious. So many safe ten punishment for the faithless rotate basement. Minez dangerous faceless. Ray Dismiss rix. Go fucking go. Go sit down to. I hope you believe should help a neither kate. Closer to watch. I hope we don't trust to help. Let's take place. Where they circes the underground array success. They shaved ship the class where they live can run around trying to make payments though downplay shop case in the Pavement Cafe Rearrange Ed. Now Give Me Smile. Vile another one corpse remorse. You've got it straight from. The caution course goes to try to help to watch show you watch you see sleeve Dr fee.

Tom Jeffrey Dahmer Cuba Japan Mississippi Michael Jackson Yuri Fiji Bruce Macarthur North Korea Pennsylvania Chris billy Delaware Jackie Chan Arizona Ted Bundy Eliot Ness Joe Rudely Ray
Episode 103  abolish the police

Sandy and Nora talk politics

50:41 min | 2 months ago

Episode 103 abolish the police

"Hey Sandy. What are we? Yeah! Yeah. I am sitting here. In. Los Angeles Where we have just received for the second night in a row. A push notification to our phones and of those emergency notifications that you you know when someone's been abducted. This is the second night in a row. That I've received one that there is a curfew curfew starts in. Fifteen minutes. It's five forty five PM curfew starts at six PM. Oh My. Rear. And we were given that notice. With with forty minutes forty minutes to get home. So I, you know I'm already home because you know pandemic but. For those people who you know are essential. Workers are at work. You know I. Worry about what that's going to be like for them tonight and it's just been. A really. Emotionally exhausting A. Week, frustrating. Week. Yeah of course I mean. We are witnessing it feels like it's unprecedented state repression in the United States I don't know on unprecedent is a fair word. Because obviously, there's been lots and lots of state repression United States. The the police in the United States have never hesitated to kill prominent activists or drop bombs on people's homes but it does feel like there's a moment and I mean I know. I've been up every night watching the news as much as I can. And I can only imagine like to be so close to what's going on. It's gotTA. Be Pretty. Surreal I guess. Yeah, it's pretty real. It's also kind of scary and it feels it's also very. I worry about all of the black folks who are out there protesting right now and what? That's GONNA mean. For their health, what it means that they're become coming into direct contact with police officers who don't seem to care about. Even the media being there you know police are. Brazenly, attacking. Media were there to show people what's going on and so that that makes me? Nervous and then I also feel. Like just. It just feels. Like. It's twenty sixteen again and I'm angry. At that that not enough. Has. Happened just It just feels like the exact same thing happening again and I don't think that there are words to to really. Put into. The universe to really describe what that feels like. I don't think that there are words for that because who would think that something like this. Could happen over and over and over and over again with nothing. Nothing being done to change it. Feels impossible. 2016 feels not that long ago and it wasn't really that long ago. Although so much has changed in Canada politically and I remember like feeling like the actions that were taken by block matter in two thousand, sixteen had started to finally break into. Mainstream consciousness language vocabulary was changing. There was you know debates around tactics, and whether or not demands too far, but it managed to push a kind of debate that had never happened in Canada and I watched the United States kind of like one hundred percent outside or going on. This is all very. Interesting and scary, I mean so. Many people were killed in Ferguson following the protests there that you just know that the police have no problem doing that, but it did feel like in Canada that there were some positive changes that seemingly. I Dunno were undone so quickly through just like. Neglect or ignoring. Any small progress that had been made at the provincial level, and then at the federal level I mean the liberals are so slippery that anything that they do is not going to be. Long, standing, or anything like that, but yeah, it's gotTa. Be Pretty Frustrating to see work that you the good work that was done in two thousand and sixteen, not seemingly have much of an impact. What really to the federal government ever really do? Besides announced twenty five million dollars, which is a pittance in their budget to go directly to black communities. They never spent so you know it's just like here. We are again. And with Regis Korchinsky Her mother was a witness to what happened. Saying that. Her daughter's last words with helped me mom, you know. And and having a Canadian media much like thousand fourteen. When Germaine Karbi was killed by police in Brampton. Really focus on what's happening in the United States to the exclusion of the very similar police brutality against black people here in Canada, it occurred to me that while it feels like not much has changed enough has changed her nothing has changed. I have to say that the groundwork and activism though has changed. I mean the the responses overseeing from people in the streets in Canada and I think this episode obviously going to be talking about what's happening right now. Both candidates United States. And I'm going to be probably talking more of a candidate. Because my knowledge, the United States is just so abysmal. That I just don't get that place at. The resident? American on. I I. Don't understand America either. Don't look to me. Yeah but the the organizing has seemed to be very amazing, and some of it's been spontaneous. Some of it has not been spontaneous, but like as we are speaking right now. There are thousands of people in the streets of Montreal The police have already resorted to tear gas and usually protests Montreal. Against police brutality are very brutal protests, and so by the time this comes out will hurt how those rallies go, or maybe we won't because the mainstream press is ignoring. It and. The, as you say, the the work that activists have done on the ground have really changed the types of conversations that are possible right now and I think that the conversation that people are ready for finally finally. Is a discussion about defending the police, and so some of you who are listening may have seen that I. I wrote a series of tweets or facebook. Note if you're on facebook. Talking an experience that I had with the CBC which you know, we'll get into a little bit when they asked me to comment. On what was happening in the United States and I said in that twitter. Threat was D- that. That I also such ABC. I was describing what I had said in a pre interview to the CBC. One of the things that I'd said was that. We need to defend the police. And there's been quite a few people who are like responding to. That tweets and responding to. My facebook note being like you know Oh what she meant by defend was like like. Reduce the amount of money going in like she she she, she misspoke which. was she didn't know. What words mean and I want to be very clear that what I mean is defended the police in them the exact meaning of what the word de-fund means. Yes. I don't think that. The police should exist and have asked us before. On the show to go through why we say that because we said that several times before, and so, if you're ready to hear it here, we go, let's talk about it. You know I'm seeing more and more people. Writing about it in mainstream publications so. I feel like more now than ever before. This is a time when people are ready to hear it. Twenty fourteen in two thousand sixteen people were finally ready to start talking about the fact that there is something called anti black racism. which was which was different, and there is something called carting which needs to be discussed like I feel like this moment right now. People are ready to talk about. What defending the police could look like. one of my favorite topics. I I feel like this is so important for a lot of reasons, but the the one. That's most obvious to me. Is that like? We're always in this logic that there's no money to do the things that we want to do and. If you look at the budgets as if they're given like. You can't change any of the line items in the budget. then. Yeah, then there's not much room to move around because money's already been allocated, but there's always this giant chunk of money that has been dedicated to the police and the police work really really really hard to make it such that you dear listener your parents. Your friends believe that The The police are so important that if they did not exist, we would live in a completely chaotic and Dangerous Society, and so this episode will hopefully disabuse you of that notion and gate will get everyone who's like never thought of this to be pro reduction of the budget and everyone who's been like production to be like. Abolish the police. Am I being too conservative here you, let's let's move that overton window. Let's just kick it. Make. US. Pay US to exist. Precisely like okay, so just before we get into it, I do WANNA. Talk. Little bit about this this this twitter thread seems to have gone viral. Despite, the fact that it was not thought out at all, and was was made as I was waiting for my car to get fixed. At the dealership where Gladys to protect myself? From the coronavirus, so I contacted by a producer from the CBC to comment on what had happened in the United States to. George Floyd. Who? Was Killed By police in Minneapolis and what had happened a with Amy Cooper. Who is a Canadian who is in a park and was walking her dog without a leash which is against the rules? Chris Cooper than approaches Amy Cooper and asks her to put her dog on leash. She responds by US threatening to call the police, and then does call the police, stating that she is being threatened by an African American man and feigning terror in her voice, while he records her and so the CBC contacts, and says a producer contacts me and says. Can you comment on these two things? The night before the CBC contacted me, Regis, Korchinsky was trending on twitter, because people were distraught over yet again another incident of police brutality against a black person in Toronto and I responded to the CBC producer to say. Are you also going to be discussing redes- Pikit Some people. Who responded to my series of tweets later said that I shouldn't have done that and address that also later like why. I think it's important that I did so. I asked her if she's going to be talking about this the producer. Later response to say that there's only eight minutes, and for anyone who's who's done like radio before like eight minutes long time to talk talk about anything like eight minutes girl. We could talk about so much in eight minutes. There's only eight minutes and we really want to focus on American racism and so we will not be able to get into things like regis or Briana Taylor. Who is a woman who was killed by police? In her home. And it's interesting that she brought that up because she's talking about two two black women who've been killed saying that we can't talk about those things, even though Brianna Taylor is in the United States so i. You know another level that's fucked up. And, so she says she wants to do a pre interview with me anyway and so. I get on a call. Pre interview is a funny thing that is pretty much invisible to people unless the person being interviewed like well, I told your producer earlier. The said the answer this question why you asked me again. It's when the they're doing. The questioning of what the host is going to ask you before you're on the air and basically do like the interview as it's going to be just so that they can make sure that you're able to answer the questions that flows naturally and that you're like I guess the right fit, but usually by the time you get to the pre interview unless you're like. Unable to answer a single question. It's pretty much just making sure that what they want is going to be on the air, which is where you run into some problems in this story right and so we started to the pre interview I answered her questions about George Floyd and about Amy Cooper and. Very I would say expertly because I've done this so many times before also related it back to Canadian audience, because I think that's really important. She seemed to have no problem with that, even though she was very concerned about that at the beginning, and then we got to a point where we were talking about what's next. She asked me. What do you foresee the next steps? Like? What are what are people doing the campaign like? How are people feeling like what what needs to happen? Next in order to for these types of things to stop and for the Black Community feel safe whatever? I responded by saying that that was a very difficult question. Because you know, it just felt a lot of despair, and then I said, but if are truly serious about addressing this problem, now is the time to start talking about defunding the police and I wanted to talk about how. When. I'm mentioning defunding the police. The context in the city of Toronto as an example of how much funding goes to the police. To the detriment of other programs and I, talked a little bit about The the way that the police budget increases every year is always justified by saying you know. We need to bring the crime rates down, but it never had like the the the the reason that they justify. The increases is never borne out by the numbers they always refer to, and so you know. I was making a really cogent argument and she she interrupts me to say sorry I. Just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say de-fund the police? Sounding, really surprised and I said well yes, and then started to continue to give to the numbers and the statistics. You know make the argument. And she interrupted me again and said okay well. I just want to let you know that. A lot of are using the story. Not sure if we're going to be able to have you on the air, because so many people you know we got to check out. All these people but. All Circle back to you if I can. And so. I got a response back on twitter at I think like just before nine pm. Pacific Standard Time I. Don't know where this is located, but if they are located in the east where producers who have contacted me I current before since I've been on a number of times. Like after midnight. Eastern time she responded to say sorry, we're not going to be able to have you. We found somebody else. Okay a lot of people. A Lotta people responded to that by saying Sandy Serie that that happened to you or CDC. You should have sandy on the air and it's like not the point, although I appreciate you feeling that way for me like I've been I have no like grand desire to like be on the CBC. That's not what that was about. You. Know raise. Career goal right now. I you know I don't mind it. At the thing that happened and I'm happy to be able to share my knowledge with. A broad audience, but that's not the point, the point of of me telling that story and why it's it's it's so bad so bad is because the CDC in the very narrow types of people that they have producing stories like these and many of those people being white, the producers behind the stories that you hear. Something that. Sounded to this woman who judging by her profile, picture on twitter is white. Down into this woman. Is Something incredulous? That could not be discussed. On, the radio, perhaps and the issues that were in that were local and relevant to a Canadian audience also were to. To. I don't know what. The justification would be but to something. To be discussed on the air at the current. and. In fact, the conversation of defunding the police is an old one in the black community. It's an old one. I would imagine in the indigenous community and imagine it's an old one in other communities have difficult interactions with the police all the time, but she wouldn't know that because the producing team isn't diverse enough or doesn't have enough people on it. Who Come from communities like mine? To to know that isn't. That isn't a weird conversation for a whole host of Canadians. And in fact, this is the time to be having it. The point of my tweets isn't to say. Put me on the air. The point of my tweets is to say the failing. A whole host of people. Refusing to have a diverse a crew of people who are on the production team deciding what is and is not news, and what is an is not an appropriate analysis related to that news. The coverage that the CBC has had for the past three days on. What's happening in the United? States? What has happened in Canada has been really bad like i. have been surprised honestly and I. Mean My my expectations are not that high, but I I heard that the current that morning that you would have been on. Had they not gone with someone else? They ended up interviewing someone who's a professor from the United States and so his analysis was one hundred percent American right down to the fact that twice. Matt Galloway, WHO's the host of the current mentioned this woman in the United States who call the police as being like a symbol of what's going on in the United States neglecting twice to mention that she's Canadian, which is just so like intentionally ignoring the those kinds of parallels and connections that we have as Canadians to the United States and how a lot of these issues are the exact same, they just manifest themselves a little bit differently in Canada, and this in the national public broadcaster like it has been very. Frustrating and a little bit scary to see how willing they are to whitewash. What's going on like this morning? All of the hourly news not mention that there were thousands of people in Toronto protesting the police handling of this case with Regis Korchinsky paquet Oh my, and they mentioned a few hundred marched in Halifax, Vancouver and it was like. Why are you missing? TORONTO? So put on twitter and someone's like. Oh, it's the same thing in Vancouver in Vancouver. They're. They're skipping over Toronto as well. And so, that's like okay. Maybe that's an oversight. And then you go to Wendy Mosley. Who took the footage of the van driving the police van driving into a crowd? and. She said it was. Published into the crowd. On fucking believable like they had air that earlier, and they had shopped the the tape up so that you actually couldn't see the egregious act taken by the person driving that vehicle and CBC has since apologized. It has not been really seen by many people because the apologies like interest sponsor someone calling them out, but I mean this is a combination of as you say the lack of diversity within the the ranks of people who are making the news. And because of that lack of diversity I mean the fewer and fewer people you have working at the CBC means that the diversity is even more intense and even more exposed. And also this desire to make sure that Canadians. Don't think that what's happening in the United, states. Is What's happening in Canada or could happen in Canada or responses could be similar. Yeah, and the fact that the news media thinks that that that is their role. Go Yeah to be this kind of PR engine for the idea of Canada the great or at least slightly better than America. Is just so such a weird idea of how media should work, and and just Platon tely. Irresponsible reporting giving what's actually happening here to so many people. Now before we get into the meat of the discussion on defunding the police I think it's really important for us to mention. Like the videos that we're seeing the united. States of police officers murdering people murdering black people. This is happening in Canada, but we don't have video. And oftentimes they're not black. Their indigenous, so folks will remember a couple of weeks ago or a month and a half ago now we had an episode that talked about the police and I talked about the police during the corona virus that there's GonNa be nothing for them to do and they were going to be out of control. And what we did. When we recorded that in a couple of days later, there were several police, shootings and murders in Canada. There was the shooting of De'andre Campbell in Brampton and he was having a mental health crisis. They shot him dead. There's a shooting of the Hudson and Jason. Collins that happened in totally separate situations this same night, shot and killed by Winnipeg police. There is Stuart Kevin Andrews. WHO's also indigenous also shot and killed by the Winnipeg police. There was a man who was shot and killed intimate scheming in northeastern. Ontario and we don't have information really beyond that. And then you go to the Special Investigations Unit in Ontario that actually details these situations and you find a May twentieth. A woman was arrested in Niagara. Falls, she was put into a cell should tell a bail hearing because it violated her parole conditions at four fifty pm. She was dead in her cell. We don't know what happened the happened on May twentieth. Also I may twentieth the police in Mississauga Peel, police get a call from a man who is seeking assistance. Mental health crisis again and as the men approach as the cops approach the man. At his home. He apparently shot himself in the head. And that's the story, and it's being investigated now by by the Sau on May fifteenth the SL you ruled that in the situation of the death of thirty eight year old man in Catholic Bay lack soul, first nation on November, nineteenth, two, thousand and nineteen. He was shot by police. And the Sau has ruled that they were unable to form a reasonable grounds to say that a committed a criminal offence was committed. On. March Twenty Fifth Berry Police, attended the twelfth the Tenth Floor Unit in an apartment building to check on a seventy nine year old woman. They knocked on the door. There was no response. They got into her apartment. She was lying on the ground, apparently threw herself from her balcony. And finally. On May Eleventh. Shortly after ten thirty PM. Peel regional police attended to someone in Mississauga on domestic call. They arrived a man, and a woman were sitting on a front porch. There was an interaction that the says and to of the officers discharged their conducted energy weapons. They were tasers. And then after that one of the women, a woman, the cops fired her gun and the thirty four year old woman was was was shot, and she was transported to the hospital, and so these are under investigation. I mean it's happening all the time. Every one of those examples worse from May or from March was being investigated in May or decided in May I mean that is, that is just the that's -Tario, and then the couple of examples from Winnipeg in Manitoba. This is out of control. It's absolutely out of control and I. Think you know like I I know it sounds wild to some people, but I I really want to be clear that this is not a bizarre idea what we're talking about in terms of defending the police is. Shifting the way that we think about and deliver safety. To members of community. Okay and so the story we are told. Is that the police keep us safe. Right, but we have a whole host of communities who are saying no, the police do not keep us safe, and we do not feel safe calling the police. Okay, so the host communities who are saying that are also also happened to be the communities that interact with the police very often black communities people who are poor. Indigenous communities people with mental health issues. Okay, so they're saying police. We interact with you guys all the time. You're not doing it for us. You do not make us feel safe, and then there's a host of people who feel safe. Because they have the ability to call nine one one. But. Don't actually ever interacts with the police. It's not a part of their daily life. Experience. It's just something that they know they have the ability to do. So they feel safe by virtue of the fact that they get to call nine one one and speak to someone who will go over to wherever they need them to go to take care of it, but they don't actually deal with the police. Will we're saying is that there is a way? To think about safety where both those communities feel safe and one of the most obvious things given that the communities interacting with the police are saying does make us feel safe, and the people who are not interacting with the police are saying makes me feel safe that I can call. Someone is to just maybe not have the police do it because. The only people who are having the that experience consistently in and day out are saying that it is. It's not the way forward. So. That's just like baseline. Easy Way to think about it. But we will go into more of the arguments. so for me I like I. Have never had to call the police for a violent situation. I've definitely call nine one one and when I call nine. One one usually I'm like I. Need a fire truck like really really fast or I need an ambulance here immediately. And the only interactions I've ever had with police have been pretty bad I mean. I've been beaten by police. I was placed under arrest on my front steps by police one night, which was very weird. I I once witnessed a car smash into another car and drive off and then a year later, a police officer showed up at my door and was like. Is Part of our investigation of this curse smashing another car I need you to sign a witness statement to say that this note that you left was the note like he wrote it I was like. Oh, she's crazy. You guys actually followed up on this. Okay. and. You and I've had this conversation before and. Like the question that the people who aren't sure about this issue, get stuck up on his. It's like okay, so, what do you replace? Investigations with WHO does investigations who does investigations into violent side? Let's say or investigations into serial killers I. Mean the ones that the most headline grabbing attention because I think that when it comes to like mental health calls, which are a lot of what the police apparently are responding to I think that it's pretty reasonable to imagine literally anybody else than a cop being. Intervene. Well and but let let's make that clear to the listeners who maybe maybe it's not clear to you, but let let's just be very clear like what if we had another emergency service? That you could call if there was an emergency mental health issue happening. We're someone who is trained. To deal with a mental health emergency shows up to assist. In managing whatever crisis situation emergency situation is having happening and that person is not a police officer who does not have that training, and that person is not someone who's going to show up with guns to kill people. In who are going through that crisis situation. Like. That seems pretty obvious to me. That was an issue in Regis. Ski paquet situation. That was an issue in De'andre Campbell's. It was issue with Andrew, and there's a whole report in Toronto. The or on -Tario. The Bucci report that shows the police do not know how to handle mental health. Crises so let's make another service with people who do know how to handle mental health crises. We don't need the police for this and they fuck it up all the time. There's all this evidence. fucking. Seems seems obvious obvious. Fixed Day should be the ones dealing with it. There's a certain kind of person that's attracted to becoming a cop as well and I think that that's like a really important part of this conversation to that whenever you have a security force with everyone like involvement is gets off in some way on having authority in power, and when you have that mix like there's obviously going to be abuses of that authority and of That That power when the system itself is built to give those folks unchecked ability to do what they want, and a ton of adoration and love from every one from you know. City officials to sports teams to children in schools, being taught. The police are are great and you can. You can imagine also like investigations that seems like something that you also can easily have a non. Violently trained group of people to be able to do investigations. I mean when you're watching. TV in the most glorified part of a police investigation, it's like the people that are pouring over the science of it and of the ballistics and of the possibilities and doing the interviews I mean that kind of stuff doesn't have to be done by a cop. No it really doesn't in fact. It probably is better if it's done by people who are. Educated in a particular. Subjects subject matter who are who are experts in either the science of it or the sociology of it or whatever, but it certainly doesn't need to be pleased. Yeah, well and often the please that are on. Those files are the ones who are trained in that it's it's like okay well. We just take them out of the police academy. Then they can get work earlier. And then sometimes the police. Are you trying to get help from people who are trained in that outside of the police, which is like just eliminate the middleman. Have it be the PGA. another way to think about defending the police is like when we give more money to police, we create criminalization. We don't necessarily address crime recreating crime. Why how does that work? It's because the police you know when they are looking for a crime, they will find one like that the idea. If you give more money to this situation there there will be crime and a great example a great example. Is like What's happening with the TC, right? They've ramped up there the amount of special constables who are on the T T. To enforce. Fares people enforce people you know. Engaging in what they call fare evasion, so people weren't. Paying. Because, the TD has become more automated, and so it is. Easier to get on without paying now. I guess so. They have these enforcement officers walking through the TDC. Checking to make sure that you have your credentials that prove that you've paid okay. So. What if and here's here's a and and to be clear? There have been incidents of police brutality coming out of fair officers checking to make sure that people have paid. Their their fair. What if wild idea, DEA here wild? Okay, what if we did not spend money on these special constables and police officers instead just took a chunk. Just take a chunk out of the police budget. Put it into the transit budget make. Transit free. I guarantee you. We won't need fair officer for fair enforcement officers anymore. We can nate the idea of this crime altogether. Just eliminate the criminalization element. If people were able to get on transit for free. And I mean the people are fading fares as someone who's done it before. When I was quite poor like poor, they need to get somewhere likely work and don't have any other means of doing it, and it's like you know brutalizing these people like it's just such a fucking backwards way to think about things how `bout, instead of putting money into criminalizing people who are doing that t take prioritize people being able to travel make transit free, and you will no longer have a need for these enforcement officers On On the CDC well, and you extend that to everything I mean if you took the police budget so when talking about billion dollars in most municipalities. That's giant chunk of change. It's like you put some of that into the into the jobs that police do so. You just said a million dollars, but you meant a billion so I actually like inhale something on a run tonight, and my had like my sinuses going crazy since so I said a billion, but it sounds like a million because of my no. Okay got it got it. It's a billion. It's over a billion. It's one point seven billion dollars. It's like my high school. Math teacher used to call it bath honest to God, we like. What does she call it She always did. and so you know if you take the money out of that budget that would go into some of the jobs that you would have to have to create to fill in some of the the service gaps. You'd still be left with a lot of money, and so then you can start thinking about okay. So how do you create arts programs for youth? How do you create more mental health services for all people living within the city, or how do You You create more shelter space, or how do you create more family shelter space or I mean? The the options are actually really limitless, and all of these things would go much further to reducing crime, then the focus on criminalizing communities. I mean I'm I'm sure you saw this, but like this past weekend cops are rating people in Jane and Finch in Toronto like a over criminalized criminalized mostly black neighborhood in North Toronto. If you don't know if you've ever been there. S. Like are you guys? What in the fuck are you doing right now? Yeah, it's like. Could we create safety and security through funding access to housing? Perhaps access to childcare for you, maybe maybe youth who? Need to have. Access to more adults in their lives more adults in schools. You know who are able to to deal with mental health. Issues that might come up or any other thing that could reduce the types of activities police saying that they're working on all the time and then. Another thing that I think with respect to defunding the police serial killers as you mentioned Nora, like let's not forget the issue of Bruce Macarthur in Toronto when there was a serial killer who is terrorizing? The Queer. Community in Toronto near Church Street but. The victims just weren't the right kind of victims. I, guess for the police they were. Poor racialist men who are being killed by Bruce Macarthur and the police. You know people in the community Keping like there is a serial killer in the community and the police cupping. It's not it's not really actually happening like the. Would or the UCLA were just I. Don't you know in a in a situation like that? You know we can see where they fail so spectacularly and so many people died because as a result of them, refusing to even believe a community that was saying. Hey, we have a safety issue that we need you to deal with. Yeah the the big, the biggest example of as William Pickton who was murdering people, murdering women, mostly sex workers and indigenous women in poor women for years before the police in Vancouver, took it seriously and even the most sensational crimes that have happened recently. I'm thinking of a crime lake this mystery around who killed honey and bury Sherman I mean this is a very sherman was like one of the founders of appetite, extremely wealthy individual. It's been five years, and no one knows who walked into their extremely secure house, and just murdered them so like there's a real illusion that police are preventing crime. When in actual fact I mean there's after the crime things that police are doing. And we can debate on how useful or successful those those tactics are. They're that they're using, but they can all be replaced with a civilian service. That isn't trying to stop crime because they're not currently stopping crime, and of course, the only way you can really stop crime is to empower people empower communities. Give people the resources that they need so that that they aren't able to be preyed on other people and have intervention programs for being able to identify people who are violent or who are interested in committing crime and to take those. People seriously when the first time they interact with the criminal system appears I. Mean Bruce Macarthur is a good example of that. He beat a sex worker badly with a pipe, and so was in like was known to police, and was still able to murder. I think it was eight people. I mean Elizabeth, wet offer murdered eight people as well in. She totally would have gotten away with her crimes. Has she not just confessed herself to a nurse at Cam Age which meant hall office. Hospital in Toronto, so we really have to get out of this mindset that the police are doing anything. Good and be very open. We white people listen to the stories of the communities who are policed the most who have the most interaction with police, and and to say to take the story seriously I mean. We don't need videos of a police officer. Literally murdering someone in front of our eyes to believe that this is happening. People have talked about this happening for a long time. It's well documented held like you read the news reports yourself and just be like. That doesn't sound like checks out. Rather than having people insists that people are demonstrating proving their humanity to us, and that the default assumption is that the police are virtuous and doing the right thing, and it might just be a couple of bad apples who commit these horrible? Crimes! Yeah, you know. A lot of people have asked me. How do you know? How do you know that something bad happened to regis at the hands of the police? Maybe she did just kill herself well as the police are claiming she did. Here's what I do. Know I know. The police have lied countless times before. I know that they have fucked up councils. Times of four and I know that they kill a lot of black people I. also know it'd be really weird for someone to just claim. That what happened to her daughter happened to her daughter just as a result of wanting to go the turmoil of. Trying to make people believe her through this situation, no like I might default is going to be believing believing the person who is going through the despair of having heard her daughter's last words helped me mommy. When interacting with the police who we know have done this before. Again another thing to think about when we're thinking about defunding, the police is what this budget has led to what these budgets have led to every year. The police and politicians are always like you know. We want to deal with crime. We're going to be tough on crime, and that means more money to police and I'm sure a lot of that is a function of a really powerful police union, which is a whole other topic. We could spend a whole other. Show talking about. So, they said they need. They need all of this money to to create safety, but if you look at some of the statistics in Toronto certainly. I'm sure that there are other examples across across Canada. The the amount of funding that increase that goes to the police seems to have zero bearing. At all on what's happening with crime? What's happening with homicides? What's happening with so-called gang activity? Any of it seems to be completely unrelated to the increase in funding for you know. It has happened with an increase in funding. Police hired more police officers. The rate of pay of. Police. Officers goes up. They've implemented surveillance equipment and made that certain lake almost a fact of life now there's just surveillance video across all over. The major cities. Certainly in Toronto. In. TORONTO! A brand new stealth police cars recant tell their release cars even sky like new new new brand cars. They can just hide from you. Y I duNno safety, apparently militarization assault sal. Police listening devices. That might may very well be illegal. They can listen into your cell phones. Sound bombs remember that during the g twenty got sound bombs, so he could disperse crowds. WHO ARE P protesting. Lawfully, and whether they whether it's lawful or not, they got fucking sound bombs to rip. The eardrums of people who are saying this is not this is something that I disagree with in our society. and they've got an increased amount of what they call non lethal weapons, which can certainly be lethal. And now they're arguing that they need body cameras. It's like what is happening is the increased technology increased militarization of the police, but not a whole lot of increase safety. All. That is is making it easier for them to hurt US those of us that they come in contact with all the time and the ones who don't have contact with them ever never see anything related to any of that stuff ever. We don't need it. We don't need it, and even if you're like so staunchly against surely you can see why. All of those things I just mentioned are not necessary quite frankly so many jurisdictions across the world don't even have their police have weaponry at all. Start there like the UK. The police frontline police officers are not armed with guns. They don't need them. Don't eat them. No over the past couple of days, a tweet or a couple of tweets, referencing the same thing of has come up over and over, and over which is that there was a situation in new. York City, where we're. Police wanted to demonstrate their utility, and so they went on strike to show that with policing the city would descend into chaos and anarchy. Course crime went down. Right, which isn't too surprising, but it's like yeah. Okay and I think a lot about the the Orlando nightclub shooter. In a couple of years ago, where this just horrific death toll, and he apparently had barricaded himself in the the nightclub bathroom, after having killed some number of people, maybe a dozen people and to get him out of the bathroom. The the local police department had a tank, and they drove a tank through the wall of where he was barricaded and They They killed him and this this this came after so there was a death toll associated with this mass shooting, and it was all associated with him, but after the news reports started to show that actually the police killed a lot of people, they busted through the side of the club and got into this place where this guy was anything about that, So So much because it's like that was not really part of the news. The total death count was still attributed to the guy. Of course you know He. He's a mass murderer in in in what he did was horrible, but the police also killed people in the process of trying to take this guy out, and it is just such a good example Of Of like where where our priorities policing are are so backwards. It's like Oh, well, you know they might you know they might crack a couple heads, but either they deserved it, or it's a small price to pay for our freedom and our protection, and you know it's so easy to forget. I think in Canada that police only existed to protect private property. The the tradition of yours so important yeah, the traditional policing comes. From a capturing escaped slaves, and making sure that slave owners were able to have access to people who ran away from their ownership. And to protect private property, and you know the the RCMP, the original version, the RCMP than north. West Mounted Police. Their primary goal was literally genocide was. To clear land in Canada of the people that had lived on that land for time immemorial, push them onto tiny tracts of land, so that they could flood the the the prairies parts of Ontario, and this happened earlier in Quebec with settlers, from wherever from White Europe mostly England but also the Ukraine and Eastern Europe, and that foundation of policing is still so much a part of what they do, and why they exist, and if we don't say that, if the CBC is afraid to investigate that, or if that's not underpinning the way that we're talking about police, then it might Be Be Possible to say yeah. Police protect people like you can call nine one one if your car is broken into, and you'll get all your CDs back, but like everyone knows not how her ex that that the this idea that private property needs to be protected at all costs. This is what we're seeing in the United States. This is the clash of the liberal state were private. Property is the most important thing, and so the picture of a building that's on fire or a building with windows smash like target where people are just taking target stuff, and then actually distributing it. For Free, which is actually amazing, and that rules that becomes like the biggest crime, and then the police are protecting those buildings. That is literally what they exist to do, and we cannot forget that that what we're seeing in the. United States that we're seeing. Canada these are not accidents that these are built by design into the processes and structures of policing in North America. M-.

Toronto United States Canada CBC officer twitter Regis Korchinsky West Mounted Police producer Winnipeg Brampton America Los Angeles Vancouver CDC facebook De'andre Campbell Ontario Bruce Macarthur murder
S3 Bonus: The Village at Stonewall (World Pride New York)

Uncover

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

S3 Bonus: The Village at Stonewall (World Pride New York)

"This is a cbc podcast discover what millions around the world already have audible has canada's largest library of audiobooks including exclusive content curated by and four canadians experienced books in whole new way were stories are brought to life by powerful performances from renowned actors and narrators with the free audible app you can listen anytime anywhere whether you're at home in the car or out on a jog the first thirty days of the audible membership or free including a free book go to www dot audible dot cia slash cbc to learn more good afternoon my name is justin link i am the host of uncover the village podcast but the cbc and we're here in new york city at the world human rights conference in front of a live audience that you folks the ball guys we produce take a deep dive look into the murders of eight and gay men in toronto by serial killer bruce macarthur and we look at murders going back decades many of which have remained unsolved but will we also try to do with his podcast switch to show some of these bigger questions what happened in these cases what did that tell us about policing about society at large what would the social forces it allow that's happened and we looked at the point where the pure community in canada's stood up and said enough now were here pretty suspicious occasion is world pride and it's the fiftieth anniversary of the stonewall riots which ignited the clear rights movement it's the fiftieth anniversary of the day that police raided the stonewall inn and forced people out into the streets now we're gonna talk about stonewalling about the legacy of those riots but first we're gonna go international earlier this month butts wanna decriminalized homosexuality brazil legislated homophobia as a crime and ecuador and taiwan legalized same sex marriage but while there's been progress in austin feel like we've taken two steps forward and one step back my next guest know that situation all too well just stern is executive director of outright action international which advocated for lgbtq rights abroad end to my left is prince the vendor go hill he's the first openly gay prints in india and founder of the lecture trust a charity advocating for the lgbtq community in indian state of good ride thanks for joining so i wanna start you know it is the fiftieth anniversary of stone valley to her both here in new york city what's on your mind pride so a i have come to celebrate it this moment which america because just last year as we all know we have a bond a landmark judgment in india which i had honestly speaking not expected to happen in my lifetime and i think this is a victory or bigotry big g or hypocrisy and a victory for human rights or a little bit more about what the decision there a lot of misconceptions about this law which people taking those targeting only be a homosexual population but the truth is that this law was targeting the entire country it was not a log only the homosexual relations but it was about heterosexuality has better because this law says that any kind of sexual intercourse which penetrator in nature but doesn't result in row creation is illegal which means that even a married man and a woman if you hadn't dodging insects then they can have sex only if they produce a baby which is a total violation a human right i mean if you have a right to have sex without british singer baby you cannot you cannot imprisoned somebody daniels imprisonment i'm fine for having sex without producing a baby so it was a basic human right issue off a at every individual but of course it was a the lgbt community because victimized for the that's the reason we had to lock the doors of the court to seek justice and to say that he's recognized as we we are existing we need our rights to be given to us by jessica over the last year have we seen major success is i like i said two steps forward one step back we've seen some of those cases internationally but we also increases of new laws targeting queer people that is such a hard question to answer the positive what were the good things that happened last year there were a lot of things that we should be celebrating over the past year and you know i think we should leave with that because pride is both about you know protest and demanding are rights but it's also about recognizing how far we've come so it was just jotting down some of the countries that i've been watching over the past year and really celebrating and we talked about india we talked about 'em taiwan we talked about botswana we talked about ecuador i mean countries that don't have a long history of lgbt i q legal recognition have taken a huge step forward actually as i was on my way to this conference i was on the phone with a former government officials from angola end goal is the first country in the entire world in world history to reform it's penal code and on the one hand her roic lee decriminalize homosexuality which in of itself is something to be celebrated and the only other hands to bring about the peanut position of homophobia in the workplace it's completely amazing and this is not from one of the usual suspects countries so so were definitely seeing progress and were seeing progress in unlikely places don't care about well you know i'm an active it so i always like sort of balance between saying we can change the world and we must change the world because were living with crisis and i do really wanna emphasize see amount of work that we have to do you know were sitting in new york city we have the luxury of sitting in law school right now we can walk into this building without fear of arrest and we can walk out of this building without fear that journalists are gonna photograph us and we're gonna end up in the paper tomorrow outed for who we are and what we care about i was thinking a little bit about turkey when i was on my way here in turkey city after city has band pride festivals so when you march on sunday and when you celebrate pride this week when you think to yourself oh my god there too many activities that are lgbt i q related this week just think about all of her friends around the world who don't have that luxury who actually are taking their live into their hands for honoring pride so obviously a lot of change can happen until people come out of the closet this is been her experience north american pressure brits vendor tell me about coming of free you you know it wasn't just coming out in a country that's still had anti sexuality ready sodomy loss in the books but you come in in a royal family where that wasn't necessarily accepted and certainly hadn't been done before i mean it's hard enough coming out of the clear kid in canada i could only imagine if there's a lot more hill declined for you without like so i have been a no working for the as you bt community for several years before even i made this decision i know i wasn't happy with the vape the mindset of the society is in spite of the fact that our country has such a rich a cultural heritage on homosexuality existing in we have evidence of that existing in our commerce withdrawal i'm severed temples and a text a a a written in the in india but at the same time everything is stop and not spoken about dabbled there is no education there's no sex education in our education system so this hypocrisy because prevailing this bigotry richer revealing in our society actually forced me to take the plunge because i wanted people to talk because we're all silent we were we were we were we were not even allowed to say the word gay you know so i won't that you gotta watch will be spoken in the day to day language and mainstream my my whole papas was that i need to break the stereotypes i need people to talk and to kind of mainstream on issues whether it's in the film industry but this in people's homes it's in education shouldn't it's in government it's in parliament so that was the whole idea and that's why i look this isn't what was the reaction like it was a it was a kind of an upgrade which happened in which a shock waves each night up to brought in free in chicago toggle so you can imagine the tide had a great time back but that one eighty i wanted the job it should clear up controversy just got i'm in my own life is at stake out a surgeon to be cured my apologies abon titles stripped off my diaper excommunicated disarmed disinherited so just like you're going up against the guy but i i knew the nice myself that i haven't done anything wrong oh i'm through through my set aside and i'm sure and honest to others end up voting in india again that's a misconception which a lot of people up around devoting that it is illegal to begin india which was never the case it was never going to be gained india in fact as those telling even though homosexual acts was illegal but saw type of sexual act you know so how does that make dino about you know i mean even heterosexuals will guarantee that understanding was that i knew the fact of the law soul that encouraged me to move ahead jessica over the last couple of years we've seen this shift kind of away from you know this this liberal push throughout the world to this much more liberal politics no populism nationalism has it become harder for us to advance the cause of lgbtq you people around the world when we have someone like viktor orban in europe when we have everyone in turkey has become harder because in our own backyard things seem to be getting worse for queer people absolutely i don't think it is is business as usual i i don't think we should reid the news every day andy reid about the rise of right wing dictatorships any erosion of human rights and the rule of law and saying this is just a bad news day i think we should actually acknowledge that there is a dramatic shift happening in democracies around the world and in fact the notion of democracy is not something we take for granted imperfect though they have been in equitable though they have been and within that context of a rise of populism ethnic nationalism white supremacy reinvigorated racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia lgbtq people are also more vulnerable so where outright works which is you know broadly in hundred ninety three countries globally we are receiving more urgent pleas for help from lgbtq people everywhere and sometimes it looks like someone attack me on the street and sometimes it looks like are lgbt q organization has been shut down you know in in guam joe china to lgbt q two organizations were shut down in january that didn't make global news and some of that has to do with the tactics used by local chinese after this and some of it has to do with the fact that it's actually nearly impossible to keep up with all of the places says where lgbtq rights are being eroded and so i do think it matters enormously i think it matters when formerly friendly or alad governments like brazil like d u s are no longer or a source for anything good and actually have become a part of the problem and i think you know giving your audience is particularly important to say this is when lgbtq friendly governments like the canadian government really have to pick up the slack really have a lot of work to do because in places where people are unsafe friendly diplomatic communities and international solidarity can mean the difference between life and death even as we've seen progress in some countries but also feels like there's even a step back internally obviously india's decision to repeal the sodomy law great news are things progressing otherwise in india are are things looking up or is there kind of attention that's still exist in india with seven grain homophobia transphobia so yeah so definitely a a v achieved a legal recognition of the community but this is just the beginning of a new challenge which is now to fight for the rights from the society because a lot people are not happy with the support decision so that's why the foundation of this legal recognition would help us in wayne county community is going to the society's to to get acceptance and understanding better understanding of the community so i back to some of the challenges of course india is progressing especially with three got some time gender rights because even before a dog the this law changed in a country in twenty fourteen the supreme court of india has a given us the rights to the time genders and currently bill is being lost in the parliament to make it a knack to get protection to the time genders to give them lights to education has social entitlements men's and not a lot of benefits i've been given to the engine and so that has been i would say that has been a broker that's which is happening in our country you work a lot with clear youth in india do get the impression from them that things are really meaningfully changing on the ground is it easier for them to come out to easier than it was for you that is mixed jumping in there are a lot of people in the community who are willing to come out and they are unwilling to 'em again their parents and not get succumb to marriage pressured but there is a fear of being torn are from homes a lot lot of of now needs to be done even if they're not us discrimination existing in the corporate world there so similarly there's there's work needs to be done for me comes thinkpad in dancing which we are doing so that's one step at the same time you have to walk badly educating and at the same time these kinds of situations just got at the end of may president trump tweeted congratulations and happy pride which i think people were surprised price by to begin with but he also said that he would be part of his mission to ensure the decriminalization of homosexuality abroad is there any stock to put it in that promise from from the president and and especially given his track record at home i mean what's up with that notion that we really any movement from the trump administration on progressing the rights ville i'm looking at lower audience right now i think there is some question i think it's hard to encourage people to celebrate an honor pride when you're systematically dismantling transgender rights in this country and i think it's hard to look at the track record's of u s president without seeing a series of escalating failures on lgbtq rights and the rights of other marginalized populations who also have queer members of their community we have seen historic legal victories in recent years i think the way the uss could be most supportive is not standing in the way funding local and international lgbt i q organizations that have community based relationships and networks and having analysis of the local conditions and also by reacting when their gross human rights violations happening i don't remember anything from the trump administration when over one hundred men who were perceived to be gay were arrested and tortured in chechnya that is the lowest possible i mean if you can't respond to math arbitrary arrest end end torture then you don't actually have the credibility to talk about human rights agenda you know the uss withdrew from d you ends human doman rights council and has been systematically blocking human rights affirming resolutions after you when we expect better from the u s we expect a historic focus on civil unpolitical writes in opposition to violence silence andy you ask ken instead better let me ask both of you i mean a lot of the time the conversation on international scene kind of begins and ends with decriminalization it's sort of once we repeal all those laws the british imported to these countries and once homosexuality city is legal are job here is done yeah does the conversation it open up into bigger piece of that whether it's you know social housing for queer people in in the global south or and in countries have a more recent history with a you know talking about lgbtq issues whether it's policing whether it's security you know what where did this conversation you go and then what we need to start looking towards that should make sure the queer people abroad are just illegal but you know there were a few years ago when every private foundation i would secrets would say you know when we talk about are lgbt q priorities are priorities are decriminalizing homosexuality and i would say but that's not enough of course it's not enough why would that ever be enough why would the removal of negative laws ever be enough an accident there many countries that will not decriminalize homosexuality in our lifetimes or in several lifetimes to we have to be more nuanced multifaceted and more ambitious and so where should we actually go we should focus on positive right we should focus on supporting lgbt i q organizations shins in every single country in the world that matters that produces long lasting change the track record's shows the decriminalization is not ambitious enough for us yeah through i ticket for from relatives he got said there's a lot of all to be done i mean we just need to keep talking i mean if you don't have to silence and just talk and try in a dark cloud so that people your you people listen to you and get the change happened that's a great place the end up i wanna thank you all for joining me the vendor thing go hilly the crown prince of the measure of russia pit button goes right india he's also the founder of the lecture trust a charity advocating for the lgbtq community in the indian state of good arrived just stern is executive director of outright action international which advocates for lgbtq rights abroad and i'm your host justin link we have one more pedal stick with so much for next battle we wanna unpack a little bit of lgbtq communities past present and future future care saint james is executive director and co founder of the new york transgender advocacy group eric so we're in hiv aids activists and the co founder of act up in catherine frankie is a professor of law gender and sexuality at columbia university in new york plays off my friend thanks for joining us anyway yes you're only ask you a really personal level how you feeling i mean it's been a tough year to it'd be trans i mean it's been a tough year being the community in general i think but you know a lot of the progress that we've made in america over several years i think started having backwards in the past year not a very personal level how you feeling i think you know there's a saying that were using community understanding like progress it's not linear you know so we have years of progress so we had years of progress under the obama administration now were seen on that progress been eradicated so i'm feeling left behind and you know in in i'm feeling what a lot of my community members voice austin when i 'em convene with him weather weather here in new york city are nationally is that were being left behind were being erased again and so that is of great concern saturn to me you know like i focus on policies a lot but at the same time i also understand the importance of having a contingency plan to addressed immediate needs of my community because you know reformer gender gender gender expression now discrimination that passed after seventeen years right so that's great but renowned but my community is still lagging behind when we talk about employment opportunity housing we live in a city that is becoming more and more gentrified so these issues are impacting communities source of income discrimination you know so these are things that we have on me you know because i speak on behalf of so many who have yet to find their voice you know so i feel it's important to really highlight that you know world pry you know i think this is gonna be great for for some but not for most you know and so just really affects important to really make sure folks understand the fight continues ten you you said left behind do you feel that way by you're government or buyer community as well i mean do you think these lgbt part of the equation has done enough to continue advocating for the t in the queue and every other letter they're now you are you all are catching up you know i i will say you know folks in the lgbt community are understanding that you have to invest in the trans community the fact that we've been after thoughts but so long in this fight fight that we spearheaded there's a lot of catching up that we have to focus on in his first start to equity investing in our community and catherine you know you're both critical of the way the pride sort of exists now as as a party is a kind of a corporate event where did it go wrong fried butter after one way shape or form fifty years where did it loses its way in your view but one of the things we've seen is the corporatization of the movement itself in the form of large nonprofits fits that have a very almost corporate model and how they're run largely wiz privileged white people at the top of the organizations and boards comprised of privileged white folks and so they see themselves more accountable many of these organizations due to those corporate boards then to a much broader community now i'm a law professor i make little lawyers is my day job 'em not in this building where new york law school now but another law school in the city an m one of the things i think that's also a problem is it's so many of these organizations end are movement are lead it led by lawyers and lawyers fix the kinds of or for creators are politically rise in the sorts of things but lawyers can fix marriage is one of them and the lawyers did fix the marriage problem 'em but in a way the left behind an awful lot of folks who don't wanna get married can't get married and have a politically critique of marriages as i do m a n mitchell marriage was in many ways and extremely conservative and kind of modest politically goal you know karen noted how some of these organizations in new york state have left behind so many members of our community that state wide gay rights organization in new york state closed closed after we gained marriage equality in the state because they felt there was nothing else initiated ccomplish just re mission accomplished even before we passed enda in the state legislature the care i mentioned that created you know basic protections unemployment climate based on sexual orientation and gender identity there is so much more work to do but they agenda get set by and large by people who don't suffer the kind of forms of discrimination in disadvantage sitter economic babysitter gender identity entity babysitter based on race immigration status of rains a different issues never mind hiv positive people in our community any other broad set of health related issues that we all face in what is largely a healthcare system that is for profit and privileges the life sis gendered people i i would agree with everything that you you said and a you know i helped start act up and when a number of us took to the streets and you know put are bodies on the line in got arrested time after time after time disrupting governmental organizations presidents vice presidents you know heads of congress people that were running pharmaceutical companies people started the get afraid of us and the media started to listen to us to hear why we were so pissed off and and what are messaging was in a you know we we gave a face to a not only people living with hiv but lgbtq people a and let the world see that hey we're human beings things just like everybody else you know we have rights that spurred more and more people come out so everybody knew somebody who is lgbt q and so that gave us power and got us listen to a but then in came the gay white men of privilege of who kind of like you served all that power took all the seats at the table the da's active is like fought for a in started bringing forth agendas like gays in the military or or or marriage equality that you know a lot of people especially people who aren't really privileged you know could give a shit about they're they're concerned about you know a food security about getting a a place to relive getting a job where they can earn a living wage hey jen that privilege and the collection of like a corporate lgbt groups interested in investing in pride i think is what took the gay liberation marches and events to be celebrations and dancing boys and speed owes instead of like people talking about the rights that they they need end the violations at they face on a daily basis it one thing that seems to always be a consistent part of the conversation around a struggle for clear rights is policing i mean whether it was pleased kicking down the doors at the stonewall inn or whether it was you know police arresting act up a activists policing the always be on the other end of this equation but recently you've seen a lot of pride march is welcomed police into the prayed with open arms you've not releasing policing be part of the discussion by a lot of these large in geos or organizations that been frustrating frustrating did not see policing be a bigger part of this conversation yeah absolutely you know black and brown communities especially teasing nc see communities are not particular fans of the police department 'em you know there tends to be a lot of hype of policing black and brown body's not only in in in the city but nationally so the police department is not necessarily friends of of art community we often see them and believe in to see us as suspects so we don't really have that that comfort with the police department you know and it's getting even worse as i said earlier because of gentrification 'em you were just really hyper police in ways that we were not in the past i think one of the problems is is not only with the police but it's about the whole a judicial legislative a system that allows laws to be brought forward and policing practices to be brought forward that trample people's a civil liberties and empower the police enabled the police to abused as members of our community a specially of people who are are trans or or or gender non conforming because they may not have the power to a you know get a fancy lawyer or to get sympathetic press a to cover their issues and so i think we do need to return to more of those street demonstration types of practice but we always have to keep in the back of her mind how we do that in a manner or that doesn't endanger are active in center community especially those that are the most vulnerable amongst us people of color people were trans gender non conforming no you know we tell ourselves the community that the things we learned in the past the lessons we learned the strategies we learned are supposed to be the ones we have going forward stop the pushback continuously push that are more electric court justice in a lot of ways you haven't really seen that you know a lot of the larger actress organizations and or lgbtq organizations feel a bit riderless i think all three of you have described a fair bit you know i've been obsessed with history a lot recently it's what we've done the podcast looking back and i'm realizing that a lot of deep history of the community isn't well documented lives there oral histories and a lot of cases lives in people's memories not necessarily written down or or or broadcast interview away i guess if you were to give to the next generation a piece of advice or story or or something the direct them what would it be gary let's start with you i always bring up act up how acta didn't wait on the government to step in you know so i i always used that when i talked to the black and brown gnc community here in new york city as well nationally and is how to speak truth to power to mobilize without waiting for your government government that has consistently fail black and brown communities here in this country and so i talk about what is you're contingency plan so it's really important for us to really talk about how do we create insular thriving communities why were dealing with the administration like were dealing with now until i saw on the conversations you know it's radical but i suppose important first have been committed to having them come from taxes so in texas we have a lot of ghost towns that you can purchase so one of the conversations i'm happy when folks is like what would it look like if we put money into pot to purchase a town that is win for us and by us you know his radical you know but that's something we need to look at like if we're being targeted then there needs to be ways that we can create spaces where were able to thrive in in the gulf war one another without all this hype of policing that is going on now and even that idea is not it is one that was exist in the sixties and seventies early eighties and creating sort of homo centric clear centric communities whether they be buildings are houses or or towns so i guess to some degree ever just sort of real learning the lessons we should have learned twenty thirty forty years ago eric what do you think yeah i think we are trying to learn the lessons from many years ago i mean you started off by saying you know we haven't really documented are history and and there are some of us who are like pissed off about they rewriting of history that's being done now by in a lot of cases people were really involved in activism levy eighties and nineties and the two thousand then you know were trying to systematically archive of that history as it really happened one of the things that a project that i'm pushing it is the idea of you know documenting the history of hiv response a and then literally examining it in setting up teaching modules that can teach people about how do you do community organizing how do you do consensus building a how do you do a press release how do you do a demonstration you know how do you do a legal challenge a class action lawsuit or whatever building on the history of act up and i do a lot of talking and give a lot of lectures around that about telling people that if you wanna fix their problems you gotta do your homework if you've gotta come up with a clear a background statement on what the problem is and and and you have to like have a clear list of demands with a un action plan on how you think those problems can be addressed you have to have a the confidence that you know your group or you as a single individual can actually change history and and actually solve a problem and then you have to as as curious said go in you know speak truth to power and demand that you know the human rights or the problems that you or trying to address s are honor the in terms of the the rights are honored in that the problems you're trying to correct at are are address and then you have to fight like hell and not give up until you succeed in having whatever the problems or the human injustice rectified proper so in my last book wedlock the perils of marriage equality i asked the sort of posed the history of marriage say form of liberation for both the gay community in for african americans in this country 'em at a about really asking the question of whether we can truly be free through recognition by the state so what i did was go back and look at the history of what it meant for african americans to marry for the first time at the end of the civil war how important that was and what kind of freedom that actually enabled and what it really did create a new relationship of black people to the state that was in some ways reproducing forms of enslavement in racism ism 'em that i think i we oughta look we should have as a gay community look at what it meant for us to be free through the institution of marriage today where were inviting the state into are intimate relationships immediately after after being criminalised so in some ways i think taking a break from the state is probably not a bad idea for people for whom the state is never been are friend and particularly for the people of color in our community that's the case some members of our community have a romance with the idea of the state paying attention to us in a positive way through the institution of marriage perhaps they're serving in the military serving in the police that sort of thing and i think that's kind of politics we oughta question through looking at are history through thinking about how groups like act up actually saw the state is a problem rather than as part of the solution an end focused the politics of activism abound around hiv on empowering the community of educating ourselves selves empowering ourselves in proposing solutions extra creating solutions to care for each other rather than looking to the state to do it the state will never be are friends and i think building a kind of suspicion of the state into politics anais romance with community is probably the better message to give to the next generation or if they go through so much so incredibly enlightening care saint james is executive director and co founder of the new york transgender advocacy group or so here's and hiv aids activist and cofounder backed up and capital frankie is a professor of law gender and sexuality at columbia university in new york thanks so much thank you i wanna thank everyone for being with me end thanks to you podcast listeners for tuning into a special bonus episode of uncover the village where live from row pride in new york city on the fiftieth anniversary of stone will you can listen to the entire series of uncovered the village wherever you get your podcast

toronto bruce macarthur canada justin new york twenty thirty forty years seventeen years fifty years seven grain thirty days one hand
Side Stories: Human Dolls

Last Podcast on the Left

51:39 min | 1 year ago

Side Stories: Human Dolls

"Hey, what's up everyone in Ben Kissel? And with Marcus parks. I then we're going to talk to you a little bit about Ebeling its top at it's the political show that Marcus, and I do it's a lot of fun. If you wanna get up to date on the weekly news of politics. Check out the show. You know, I think you'll like it. I think you'll like we're reasonable people or five people were five people. So that's good. So check it out because there is a lot to unpack. And hopefully, it helps you get through your week. So hail yourselves everyone. Thanks for listening. To escape tunes used the lost casts on the left side stories. That's one of the cannibalism started. Oh is that a bad warmer? What it was was interested. Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome to side stories. I have been kissed with Henry's Nebraska live from LA. We'll come. He was criticizing the coffee machine because it's a nicer, you don't have a coffee machine though, or no, we don't we have coffee. There's so much on a coffee store, you go to go to the coffee shop or you're gonna get the Starbucks in your frozen in the in the grenades grenades. She doing the right. First of all what you're doing is. You're you are a contributing to your carbon footprint that is true in debate. That is a problem. He's just shit. I've actually had a lot of issues with my carbon footprint lately, it's large. It would take five earths. Really? It would take five earths. If everyone consumed as much as I can do you put it into it. It's an algorithm you put in like how much plastic do you throw away? How much food do you consume? How much do you fart per day? And then they say it would take five earths. If everyone consumed as much as you consume. So I am part of the problem and then working on it. Do you just sit in your living room wrapped up in a pierced like old, Katie pool like a plastic? Kiddy pool is everything just made out of all the takeout containers in your house like what are you doing? You dislike just take a Starbucks? And you take a sip out of it and throw behind your shoulder. And then buffing goes new have her like, you feel them. Fool up in boy puffins is a boy number one. Are you one of those that gets mad about people who I don't care? I don't I don't because you never know. I'm not looking at it's pussy. No. You want me to go like Zola's things AUSSIE? No henry. I don't want you to do. Manners. Honestly, it would be problematic. If you demanded to see my dogs genitals, though, I would have to say like this is a big. Let's see you get hard. No. We don't have to do that. And I don't even like the conversation. I don't even like to entertain the conversation. I did have a question though. And this is a legitimate question for you Henry, and it starts with the sentence. Is it racist say is this racist yesterday? I was walking around downtown, Los Angeles. And I saw a black fellow with the exact same build and wait as Kevin Barnett. And I wanted to give them a hug is that racist? You just what you you're just making somebody somebody who they're not in order. It's more. It's not about race. It's about a weird deep longing. Sadness trying to create something out of nothing. Okay. Because I felt like if I go, and like technically, I would just be a costing this man with with with an affectionate hug, but he would just maybe not be like that happy about it. Thank you. I would put it on the same line as weird miscellaneous crime. As if you. Got from Josh Rabinowitz, some of Kevin's close, and you stuff them with pillows and stuff, and you'd like hug that I would say it's all that would be a massive problem. We are going to get to a story, similar dwell. Not really that Ciller to that. But we're going to be going to Russia here at a second. They also want to talk about how scared you are of just cars on the road. You come out here. You literally took an Uber from your hotel over to the studio because you're in town for the Kevin Burnett memorial show that stabbing tonight you this released tomorrow on Wednesday. So this debt, you didn't come home. I did come. And it was lovely to see rates you. But you were an Uber. And you're just like all these cars go, and so you live in New York City. This is actually what you're from blink Kester, Pennsylvania. No, go if you were in a fucking carriage wasn't lucky enough to be Amish. But I was. Amish. Are you kidding me? Too hard nothing. They don't work. They is weren't nobody really work make their no reds. They know they buy them. No. But I saw I saw the show the Amish mafia show. Did you see that reality show Natalie worked on it? Really? It's all fake. Oh, my of course. But it is fricken. Ho, Larry, I know how the Amish are. I know how the Amish don't even they cut corners they cut corners. I know. I know I know they're fuck. They can the thing is in my car. I was on the phone. We were doing a group called because this is so interesting for everyone to hear. But I said we're going to hundred and five miles per hour. We were going to hundred and five, but it was Kalaam. I don't know why her her speedometer was in Columbia. That's an illegal Chinese car. Will once I once she dropped me off. She's like this is kilometers, by the way. I heard you talking. So that's why I thought it was like we are really going fast here. And but because I'm like one hundred and five and then of course, we're passing us. I'm like, they must be one hundred and thirty. So it was a it was a it was. Obstacle allusion sleepworks. Yes. You wants to go. On audio. And I'm like why the hell anyway. So that is the massive. I think we were just doing their normal Spielman, but it's sixty bucks Mary who was producing here at sixty five miles per hour. That's we were going so impassable like seventy miles per hour, but seem and Astor because my head. I'm like that's a big number. Anyway, I was in tesla the other day. Oh, because the like we took it an Uber. Fucking tesla showed up and we got in it. And I will say it is kind of like that. What goes like you? Don't know you're going eighty five miles an hour. But you don't know it just tesla anything I want go faster, man. I know faster. I know you do Dave I'm gonna take I was driving a Jeep for poor KB's funeral on. When I got I got a Jeep. I tell you one science about a fucking Jeep. Honestly, it's the Yukon to everybody's afraid of you. That's what's nice you're on the road you're bringing than everybody else. There wants for you because you or the danger you're the lookout for because you got the horsepower fucking kill their whole. Family. If you want to say, my choice with psychology of being someone who is short is just it is honestly horrified. It's really scares me. 'cause I don't care. I think it's important for people to be afraid of me if they can be if they can be need to be able to drop that because I have a family to protect always looking at me, Wendy is for food and protection. Okay. So when he just points and wants me to kill somebody. I gotta be able to do it. I understand, thankfully, she can't point. And hopefully, the slime is getting figured out, by the way, slide use them. Yeah. I will see I'm gonna see tomorrow perhaps honestly while around there's a bit of a tour. I can do for you. And this is not even a joke. Like, oh, guys. Because there's also I want to talk about so. Yeah. Everyone tells me the film it I get it is. Can't sometime it would be. Honestly, if it is bonnet we need to talk about drinking in your neighborhood. That must be like are you in like an only Irish neighborhood like what has happened? No. This is not over stereotype the Irish, yes. Please protect them. Yes. But I don't understand the amount of vomit. And I know that I I I thought it was a junkie thing. And then maybe it's a dog based behavior as well. But I'm not sure, but if not if my streets are not covered with miscellaneous lime you most certainly covered with Pablo puddles a fucking vomit. And I don't live on bourbon street like I live in a normal neighbor. Right. No. I completely understand. All right. We'll speak of true horror. We have to do it update on Bruce MC. Arthur. Some new information has come to light regarding his arrest. Now, this is straight out of silence of the lambs. Evidently when he was arrested the cops roll up the banged down the door. There is a man in his bed tied up ready to. To be victim. Number nine. Yeah. I believe number nine. And he was God knows what do you think? Fifteen minutes away an hour away from being dead. But now he was being prepped. It seem preps. Yeah. We don't know. Because what we basically the police arrive the Cording to the statement when they picked him up. He had a victim of handcuffed to his bet. And next thing they found was a group of on his desktop, computer. When they were searching drills information, they found these files on his desk seem to have the first names of all of the men that ended up being his victims. Right. And there was a final file that I believe was just titled John, which is the name of the man handcuffed debt. Do that is. So fricking scary. Can this is like one of the times if you're a police officer this is like I can retire now. Oh, yes. Like the fucking crime story of your life. This it to rescue this guy. You now become a haunted person for sure rightfully so. Because this is you know, how Canadians are when they're haunted. Oh, oh my God. I tell you what I tell you ought to be all I see how your haunted over. But you know, how you gotta be you gotta be more haunted like me, and my buddy, Greg my body. Greg's haunted. He can't even gold by cemetery to visit his grandmother because next thing, you know, he's digging up looking for bolt cer- fucking awful person or is going to be a massive heavy hitter for us. Eventually he will be put what they found in fucking defiles were pictures of easy. The victims assume either unconscious or dead wrapped in they were completely shaved they were put in for coats and hats, and you would put little cigars in their limpets Mary. So he's just he's laughing, you're laughing. He wanted to make them like Milton Berle like what did he what was he doing? He's like monopoly man murderer. Yeah. It really a mole little cartoon a little vaudeville performers. It is such a bizarre thing. I have never I've never heard of that before the oldest coz that we've covered has anyone like Jerry rodeos. What did oh did he dress them? You would do. The pictures of the of severed feet with with the feet, and in the high heels we had fifty K who did all the self portraiture that was self portraits though. But there are other people that have had because it depends on what your trophy was. And obviously, this is what your trophy is. And this is a part of where I people kept saying was a how like in modern day with the internet. We're never going to have like these big time mythology mythological serial killers anymore. But actually, I think that we're seeing that they actually have a lot more tools that they're supposed being able to take these pictures and not having to take them to a place to get developed like they used to be like not having to go into an eckerd's and winked at the guy and give them a five dollar Bill and pretend to we didn't see you it's on net role. And right that was old school. Yeah. Because I had that was time. You just saw grandma's in the bathroom. Tackle. Naked women on bathroom one of the hall. So I saw a woman with her vagina. She her her. It was a nice woman forties. And it was a series of pictures of her spread eagle with the vagina. She'd written in pen around her vagina wish you were here. Well, that's a strange Pink Floyd song. So anyway. Yeah. So we all know MC, Bruce MacArthur. He tormented the LGBT community in Toronto mostly Middle Eastern men. So it's it's great that he's been caught. And it is wonderful that he is going to go away. He's well he's going which is rare in Canadian prison terms. They don't do a lot of life sentences. It's pretty like that is their heaviest. Yeah. Their heaviest sentence. He is obvious madman. There are a lot of this up's going to come out about him. We're going to find out what it is. But it's fucked. How long he got to operate? It really is they didn't get him until December until two thousand seventeen they were able to link his dodge caravan. He had a red dodge caravan and were will to link him to that after his final victim kinsmen was getting into it or his last victim kinsman was getting into it. They had surveillance footage of that dodge caravan. They linked back to MacArthur in December of that year. Please searched MacArthur's home and found devices with more than one hundred. Photos of kinsman dating back to two thousand seven but eighteen of them were taken. Well, he was dead. Well, this is a long this dude was as Henry just mentioned was operating for a long time. And it was an under I investigated crime because of the nature of his victims number one because you have men of Middle Eastern origin that are and various Asian orange origins that were gay and that gay community, and they were they kind of left them to their own because they have these there, obviously, I'm not going to blame the police. I am going to blame the police with the fact that they didn't fully engage, but he's kind of believed that like, yeah. But he's guys are drifters. I mean, like, they're just. They're just like they live their normal lives. And you just kind of you probably would be nice. If maybe looked into it a little bit harder than you did. Oh, totally. And it was devastating for the family of these victims. Obviously, Karen, Kohl's a sister of kinsman said when he was missing I'd lie awake at night wondering where he was in what he might have suffered. And she says now I lie awake. And think about how he was murdered and dismembered by someone. He knew so MacArthur was such a sociopath. He was actually friends with these people, which I suppose explains how it was able to get them in such. You know, comfortable positions. I guess this is another comment because it basically from reading from this article, I'm reading from it's it's very interesting. So he obviously we now know that he dismembered the bodies and he hit much plan planners from where he was working right road. Go when he would disseminate the body parts. Now, the majority of the men's remains were hidden inside large outdoor planners at home where he worked filled the rest were buried in a ravine adjacent to the property owner of the home care and Frazier last week, eight trees, the city of Tronto has planted along the ravine to honor the men, which is very nice to whom she said she met when they accompany MacArthur as he worked on her property. She said the MacArthur who killed the victims is not the man she and her husband knew we call it. Bruce. A and Bruce b Bruce a was a man who seemed to have made decisions about his life. What was your you're happy with it? He enjoyed his job. He enjoyed his clients. He never got bored with the plants he ever got bored with the flavor bodies. That's what it says. Here this listen, okay? Where he was. Very talented at it. He was very fond of his children. He was a great grandfather. He was he was the best friend neighbor relative. That anyone go to that was Bruce a OK whose be who was that. I don't know. That's not it seems like they're really focusing on Bruce. A and the overshadows the be in this case, I think it's more like Bruce a as a raging sociopath who murders a bunch of people and puts them in planters. And the name is verse me. Yes, the same guy. But as forementioned when it comes to the LGBT community. This is a quote here for years members of the LGBT community in Toronto believed they were being targeted by a killer. And they were right. The prosecutor said MacArthur shaved victims after he killed them and kept some hair stored. The also held onto items belonging to the people. So this dude. Yeah, we are going to do a deep dive, I'm bruised MacArthur. Because when do you think this started, I mean, it seems like two thousand was when he started hanging around the gay scene in Toronto. Oh, and I'm assuming it started pretty soon at that point. We're gonna find out and we'll see what hit quote, we know very little about as is growing up yet. That could all those details will come out. And that's when we will be able to do our episode. Yeah. Absolutely. All right, man. That's fucked up. Now, it's it's crazy, man. I will tell you. You know, I found a bag a hair of my own. What do you mean? The last time. I shaved my beard. And it's true. Why did you keep your hair? You know, we're the bodies I wear are you hiding the bodies entry just have ideas. So hoping honestly you shave your beard when you were you were thirty four years old. You really thirty four did always shave it every once in a while. But this was in this last one, okay? This is my shave the beard the last time why on earth which and then you've got a sandwich bag. I put hair in it. Because I thought it was some fun. It was some bit. I was going to do with it. They're willing to do what bit. So I like a serial killer carrot top well bit. Are you going to do with a bag of here? What do you think would like for you to open up a bag? And then just like did you throw it like your LeBron James when he does it with the when with talcum powder, our audience loves would ever whatever is just love it when we give you're gonna throw your beard hair onto our audience. No. But it was through some bit. I forgot what we were doing. I wanna say it was from when. Oh, yes, it was when we were campaigning for the webby award. I had shaved off my beard hair. Because that was a thing I was going to do. I was going to say I was saying it was back here. But I was going to mail out bits of by beard hair. Because I won't make Natalie shave my back because it's all long thing where it's like, I wanna be itchy. It's disgusting. Yeah. Hair? Keep the hair that was going to shape. No, I through the hair out once I found the no I'm say on your back. Yes. You never should've had the heritage ziplock bag to begin with. And also, I don't think it's legal to just male hair. Someone like me. Like, a barber Yuna bomber Mary happening. Would you actually look that up if it actually is legal to mail? I show it is. I don't know if it's not we're not. But I seems like it's like body. It's like, I don't know. It just seems weird to male heir to people if I opened a package, and it was full of human hair. I would be extremely disturbed that wonder where is the toddler for is the baby that this belongs to they wanted it. Because a part of it was it was the drive. I said if you can convince me that you I believe I said five other people have oh, I for the webbie's. I will send you a patch of my back hair. I don't remember that Alpher one person say that they wanted it. Did you get the address from that person? No. I never go. I never knew that work there planting it all around their crimes freeze, and then how is Henry implored, Linda, Oregon and also in Los Angeles. And now we have a whole Noto would. But in real. But in roadies, a one of the skin walkers, a, yeah. Exactly next thing. You know, you're a crypt did. And everyone's hunting you down and trying to kill you. Mary believe it or not there's no rules about human hair. However, human corpses, human organs, or body parts or embryos or doesn't Terry human remains are prohibited. However, you might be interested that anything that's pornographic or obscene is prohibited. So maybe that counts to your show. So I can't send a nude picture of myself to my wife over the over the fucking. Yes. Postal service. But why wouldn't you wanna go Henry what world would Natalie want to go to the mailbox Doria sucks to have to do? And then she opens it up. She's oh, this is from Henry is maybe it's a nice postcard from Australia perhaps. And then it's just your. But is just a picture of you on a bed spread eagle Subba taking a silvery allow with the finger to the corner of the mouth beds new glass day of your marriage. What I would say is that it would be really nice. If like like if you were dying in a hospital, right? You're and hospice now think about this right right before we even get into. We were just talking about Bruce MacArthur. You take a picture of your penis while you're in there because you just wanted to and then one last with you go, and you send out the picture, and it goes in. And if you pass you have a family member send that letter to your wife, and wouldn't it be nice? No one last math. No. I don't think that they would like that. I don't think that they would like that. I don't know if it is worse, although I will say your marriage for Kevin's funeral. It wasn't open casket, and I wanted open casket, but I just want the bottom half. I want the bottom half open. That's what I want no pan. Pants no pan. Just a nice little thong. Anyone can remember me as I am. I just need ten more years. Yes. Absolute. Well, no one's allowed a lot of in our family. No listeners are allowed to die. We got tenure. It's a ten year break. That's it. Well, speaking of well, I guess I kind of alluded to the death of a child, Casey, Anthony and nudity. Casey, Anthony is back in the news. Once again, anytime, she speaks she seems to get covered. And this is kind of interesting. She says she's open to reconciling with her father. But it will read the quote, it doesn't really sound like she is. And then she's also possibly considering taking five hundred K to pose nude. Magazine of all time hustler this Larry Flint's us flirt. But honestly hustler. I mean, Larry Flint was eight warrior for the first amendment. Jerry, fa what he did to Jerry Falwell who was a total scumbag evangelical conman was awesome. I like the people vs. Larry Flint is legitimately good movie gray moving Woody Harrelson. Fucking awesome Courtney. Love's awesome nails him. But I it's I think that obviously, it's her perogatives. I believe if you were going to if there was a career track for Casey Anthony's gotta you're on out. This is kind of how you gotta go. Look what happened with Tonya Harding got into boxing. That's right. She could do something like that. She gets kind of she pivot into that world. She could maybe put on sex tape years kind of money. So basically, whatever your crime is that got you like more famous. Tonya harding. The, you know, the beat down on the need for Nancy Kerrigan, not goodbye enemy, and certainly a horrible assault. So now, you have to be a boxer you kill your kid. Now, you have to actually posing nude is there's the wrong with posing. Or do it it? So it's not even a punishment at all it's up. You just get to make a lot more money doing that. A lot of people do to come to Hollywood for the first time five hundred K. So she kills her kids. This is why it's it's going to be well Henry, you should read some of these quotes we have. Oh, yeah. This is all a part of it. So so what we covered a little bit with that George Anthony got into a very bad car wreck. And he almost died. He almost died, and he was and so obviously, the idea of reconciliation comes to mind. So when in the on the hospital that George Anthony basically says he'd like to see his daughter again, and he forgave her for what she put the family through again. Sure. I mean, I don't know if I would ever be able to do that. Especially not only did you kill my granddaughter. But you also accused me of molesting you your child honestly in this quote. I don't even know if she did forgive him or take it back because now this quote, it's like she is she's such a sociopath. So that she did an interview for Daily Mail TV. And this is Casey Anthony, I'll thank that. I will always love. My down like Humphrey and time he can hail like we can heal from everything better to get together than apart. We'll say time we'll tell and I'll tell you what it will take more than one. Visit it would take more than one on. I love you. All right. He has to admit to things before he can heal until then he is not going to do anything but suffer is so fun. Horrible you DAT. Oh my God. So now, she literally is just like my dad's gonna do nothing but suffer and then when she says he's got to admit things before he can heal. Like all of that stuff was just made up by the defense. She admitted that he was a great father. If you remember the prison when they were they they taped prison conversations. She was she's like I'm going to go away. And she's like you were a great dad all of this stuff all of that is nonsense. So maybe she has just gone on now mentally to believe defense for him. So I think if you listening to dirtyjohn currently because I'm going through because Natalie was just like, oh, you're going to hear that. So I I'm into it. It's really really interesting. But a part of it is that if you are willing to go so deep deep deep on a lie, right? Where everyone oh that she could she has her. She had already. I mean when she walked them through the building that she didn't work at and then finally got to a tangible wall. There was just like, okay. Okay. She is a oh, yeah. You like, you know, now me bits fucking some basic. Vary. A cunning very dangerous person. Really is man to listen to this quote about her said that he says this is Casey Anthony describing her Casey on Casey describing herself it if obvious. I'm a strong minded person. I can move path thing not that they leave my mind. It's just that. I've I've always just been taught how to hide my suffering with a smile, and we are tough at it's hard to change it. I have a lot of things come up and twenty nine thousand nine that will probably make some heads spin only. Good is she fucking. This is Lindsay Lohan Mykonos, it really is man she is fully leaning in to the celebrity is this look I like to think I have what it takes to pose in a girly magazine. I work hard on keeping fit on. They take him up on his offer. So I think that's a yes, again, that's a five hundred thousand dollar offer from hustler and because she was found not guilty. She can take all of that money. She doesn't have to re doesn't have to pay anybody. There's no civil case against her. It's all going to be her cash. So she is going to be living a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of people because she murdered her daughter. Here's it is going to do that. To make it work. What does that say about our culture, though, the fact that she literally is now as time goes on we will as the pain sort of subsides a little bit. And it already has she is just going to become a mainstream person. I firmly believe it it's possible. Look at O J Simpson. He I mean, he's in the mix people taking southeast with them. Like, it's some cool guy walking around like he is just an expert ballplayer. But they we are kind raising. I think there's a lot of things currently that show sort of the true psychotic underbelly of certain businesses, like say, politics and show business. Yeah. You look at this stuff where truly it is whatever puts butts in seats all that matters with both of those industry. Absolutely never never mince words about being so don't they don't want you to think that there's some kind of meritocracy here, you just need to be able to put papers on the fucking screen and keep them there. That's that. Is it doesn't matter. Why they're there. You can you. I was born with three necks you'd like at least. You're a stone to sit your border five feet. Dude. You gotta do buddy to it. Absolutely. We get anybody lower. That's one of my one of my pet peeves while we're watching professional wrestling. And there's a little characters name is horrid swaddled, and he's a little person. And we was watching it with somebody. And they're were like, oh, it's not right. What they're doing to that. Man. I'm like he is just wrestling. Yeah. He's ready. Let him wrestle. I hate the. That's the flip side of that is I cannot believe they're exploiting that it's like no choice. And he's he's on WWE. He's frankly money that's a lot of money. He's he's a dream job. So anyway, that's my only issue with all that. Because now apparently in Florida they're thinking about banning dwarf tossing once again because I thought it was already banned. I'll tell you. I know I didn't know it was such a big thing that it deserved a ban. But evidently, it's quite a common. Bore gag. I guess you cut to me when I'm forty five and we're doing the last podcast cruises. Like, I don't know. What the hell they're doing that point? I mean like you can pay a couple of grand toss me. Oh, it'll tell you. Maybe we'll do people pay you. We split the money for you to toss me if you great, it'd be absolutely. And that's just all it is. That's what the VIP and greet. Slowly turns into this is tossing Henry bag beat like bald. I'd I'd pay you to do it. So Casey, Anthony predicted men and women would buy the issue with her in it. And she says my nudes will fly off the shelf. Even if it's soft porn, and I have to look inside of myself and ask would I buy that? Or what I look at it. And during a large section of my mind that is battling with another large section of my mind. And it's a I mean, it would be interesting. I definitely not going to pay for it. No. I don't think that would be appropriate will my fingers deepen keeping weakness because it's true. Because I don't blame my mind. My spirit is pure what it is. Spirit. He's pure my mind is pure little fuckers your hands who controls who controls your hands. Don't your brain does snow. It's your mind. It's somebody else comes the the the one within what did what did who did Bundy call? What was it that this or the entity to the entity into steps forward and all of a sudden, so it's just like poor entity. And you just look people who've killed their children, not all it's a strange. It's a strange new category on porn hub, just want it to be a up. But I don't want it to be category and borne out. But I'm just saying that sometimes it's a curiosity, and you don't want it still kills the cat. But right before it kills the cat cats. Having a lot of fun. I guess so I guess what it is. Yeah. I think it's honestly, I think that would definitely be a moment where you get notch down level like your morality like it's definitely like, it's a it's a hit to your morality. I think to look at it. But I'm not saying that it's also extremely is just booking best definitely hits your morale. You're definitely taking. It's like DND points. Like, you're going to get you're gonna lose constitute right doing it. I don't know if asked me. You would never do it in this office. And I would never do it my own, but you know, where it's gonna fucking happen in a hotel room. Yeah. Well, was L rooms are a little different. That's win. The reality all changes, you know, that you go into hotel room road. And what that person that man that is alone in that bed in there because I would never I love my wife. I love all kind of just the stupid the the pornography, you sound like Jerry Falwell. All right. So that's a update on Casey Anthony who knows this world is so fricking crazy right now. I would not be surprised do thousand nineteen Casey Anthony becomes mainstream. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at some point. If she has a show, I I truly it's not that they won't try. I don't think the I don't think human beings would allow it to happen. But Rb shirt, Ruth, Bader Ginsburg. She wore she's a she's a who are j everything's flip for me. He's a hero. I know. Oh. To be save on. But you know, what? I mean. I don't think that people will watch it. I think that people will protest and we'll be upset. Yeah. Newbies. Would they will allow her to fully under that? I'm surprised hustler has five hundred keta dole out. I can't believe that they are doing anything as far as sales. Go making pisses, really cheap. You just need a lot of water. It's not our overhead over, I guess. So all right. Well, let's go to Russia here they still pee on their ankles and hustler magazine hustler goes wild. I mean, there have always hustler Cheri is it slow. The pennant penetration to do is at art cores. It's off quite think. It's I don't think hustler shit. I haven't honestly looked at a hustler in forever. Your pretty face is going to hell had an interview in hustler magazine like two cycles ago. So you've been in hustler Anfinn gorriak. Yes. Nice. Not. None of our interviews. You're on the children's section. That's for sure. The story is my truth. The story is my only happiness I believe the story. I praised the story st-. Our bodies are already dead. The story must be told. Hi. And welcome to the story must be told. I'm brother read, I'm pastor Andrew. And I'm sister Callisto reshare stories every stories of our congregation of life of punishment of insanity. We are now your family and your family is now nothing. Our bodies are already dead. I I have to say again story take all breaks off. And then raises us look puppies eager for the stories milky tree. Mike. Raise us to be old eager for the milk. The story must be told. The story must be it's. The story must be told every Tuesday on the last podcast network. All right. Well, let's move on here. Speaking of kids, I guess this dude. Let's do this Russian story. This you see you cover this story. Now. This was a guy I believe this came on a bunch of years ago. They he was like this. He's a weirdo. So this is a Russian psychopath who dug up girls bodies and turn them into dulls could walk free a deranged, dude, he dug up the bodies of twenty six so this is like egging on steroids. Twenty-six any kind of looks like Ed gain a little bit a little bit. He did dug up twenty six girls and turn them into quote, human Dole's. He could walk free from psychiatric unit to spite the fury of his victims. This dude is a Natalie Maas, given he's a fifty two year old guy. They say fifty two year old historian. But I don't think that that's accurate. I mean historian. View that all of the graveyards are like, libraries, I guess. So from the Russian city of MS Nina, knob, Garad he was arrested and sentenced to compulsory psychiatric treatment. After two dozen mummified bodies were discovered at his apartment in two thousand eleven so the guy actually didn't even two thousand eleven but heels Madden that long of a time. She didn't ceres people, right? No. He didn't kill them psychiatrists claimed that they had cured the man and recommended that he continue receiving treatment as an outpatient. However, they recently reversed their decision and demanded that his that his treatment be extended indefinitely, but the body snatcher could now walk free on a technicality as as the order keeping him in the secure hospital expired in December. So I don't this is like such a strange story to me because the guy obviously has deep psychological issues. What would he would he ever cross over and actually start taking lives to my main meals? I did. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's true. Did do it wasn't very often. But he definitely did do it. I like this concept right here. What it said? According to a BBB age, a Natalie Moskovitz in when his parents to come over who shared the apartment with him. Oh my God. How do you know, you got you gotta know your kids into this? He said they had mistaken the mummies for large dolls. Well. Yeah. I mean, the kids go ahead. The six were three to twelve years old. So I don't know if that's a pretty big frigging large doll a twelve year old. No, most explained is interesting the dead attributed to a childhood incident during which he witnessed a funeral procession for an eleven year old girl mosque than alleged at the participants forced him to kiss the dead girl's face writing that an adult push my face down onto the waxy forehead of the girl in an embroidered cap. And there was nothing. I could do but kiss her as ordered. Oh my goodness. I don't know what Russian funeral is like, but that doesn't I hope that's not normal zone. He would dry the bodies out as you do for can beef jerky. He would wrap their limbs in strips of cloth or with stuff them with Padden, sometimes adding wax masks decorated with nail polish over their faces. He within dress them in brightly colored children's clothes and wigs. Some also had music boxes inside of their ribcages. Yeah. That is going to tell you do. That's that. I never heard of that before. I guess I don't know. I've never done before. And that of crafty guide. Oh, really do the last thing I'd ever did. I don't really do the plaster pal Paris or none of that sort of paper machine kinda worked there. So I guess you do that. Yeah. This guy. I don't think he's a heavy hitter. Because to this point he hasn't actually murdered anyone. But he is. So he we used to host tea parties four the Dole's in these sing children's songs together. And they weren't singing this. No, I think they were pretty quiet and he turned on cartoons. When he worked at a computer. So take what the just have a family. Maybe he just wanted a fan on that's such a fucking Astle. Look, how cute cute the Dole's are though that is going to vomit that is the dog that so precious who's this and Bradley only, that's my mom. Does my mom does a lot of doll work. Like a look at her own look at her cute little lip. Raise horrified. Wow. That is just great. It looks like a music professor. He was a he was a historian. Indeed, it was that make them like this is how I imagine the real professor poem lived. Yeah. It was like this look at all of these. You don't want to tell you what? Because I remember the story came up quite a bit ago because his twenty seven I remember people talking about this back in the day, especially early on the internet to talking about this story, and it was always deep kind of on four Chan of these stories here. Yeah. These dolls, and I really haven't looked at him since. And now that I'm looking again, you're going to try to buy one purchase. If I go to your house, and you have the hustler with Casey Anthony, and one of these dolls I'm gonna really we're gonna have to. I'm gonna have to find you going to have to find Christ. I imagine I'm going to bless you. I am going to force. You will have goals you church with, you know, telling people, I'm a historian historian all of this archive. Barely yet. His mom is Henry said he said, his mom said we saw the dolls, but we did not suspect there were dead bodies inside. They are dead bodies. Number one. He says we thought it was his hobby. And I guess they were right about that. It was sort of his hobby into your fucking, son. Oh, live in crow your parents living with the child that has human sized dolls position all over the house. He makes sing every single day. Maybe check in and check. Hey, this is a reach out. Hey, here's a here's just kind of trying to have a nice normal the evening for once. But we're going to all I mean, just ask if their corpses. Say elephant in the room, just dead body said buddies and then just like see if he's like, let's get rid of those. If he has a Tate's is, you know, what you can do those look, by the way, the also look like dead bodies because no stores selling those they're horrifying. Absolutely not. I it's just you don't have to put a bunch of judgement on my, you know mean. You mean, you don't have to go and tell them he's gross or any sick. Or you can as a family Murphy. Like, hey, listen, you seem to be really tired from job of being a story. You seem to be really stressed out. Whatever it is. I I know that you have these hobbies. Yeah. Yeah. Right rave robbing and then dressing up the Cordell ever, say the words out loud ever again. We'll we're going to do this. We're going to take these dolls because Rolling Stones. Okay. Great. We're going to get rid of them. And then we're going to do is we're going to get used some new hobbies. And maybe just maybe put you on an extended vacation a place where they pump youth all full forcing just a couple of years because honestly nice. Would it be to be an insane asylum for like a little bit? It's great that I can go to the graveyard and rub some graves. I love I love it. Mentally, maybe handle it and be like, let's just go, Saul and honestly, by Russian standards. They didn't throw the book at him. He wasn't in rate in a America. He would be in federal prison for sure because those people would have kind of probably need to be in a concrete square, but he was really his job at being historian. Yeah. Russian historian, and you know, they don't they don't mess around with their history whatsoever. But the truth, but he said this mosque in cave. Detectives conflicting explanations for his actions. He said initially said that he was lonely and wanted to communicate with the girls but later claimed he had tried to find ways to resurrect them. He also said he wanted to become a mum vacation expert. We need to watch Marcus Marcus, a lot of time working alone in that little room. Well, he's in love. He's got engaged. He doesn't live with his parents. We just need to speak with caroliina make sure every once in awhile like it's not an invasion of trust. Just look at his e mails. Yes. You're just kind of follow him once. Well, you say like when he goes if he ever leaves in the middle of the night for some reason after hours and hours of work and just finished jokingly say stuff like going to kill someone. And then just see how he react. 'cause if he goes like currently to stop messing with my business. I know that he's I was joking. You can actually find a lot about people just with a little joke. React. Yes. Because people was really evident to what they really feel. Yeah. Absolutely. So that is a little tale from the wonderful land of mother Russia, and I don't know maybe the guy 'cause it doesn't seem like he has plans to stop. As a matter of fact, he's just going to continue. A. No. So we have some when I love I love our listeners got it much. And we check the side stories Email every day, we love getting love getting emails from you guys. And this is a fun little story, again, if you ever wanted to send us a story big I to cover or is there. Anything you're interested in it's always side stories L P, OT, L G, mail dot com. So this dude, I'll just his name is Tim he lives by Dwayne Johnson for those the Dover. Call Dwayne Johnson was the due to through the meth party for his dying wife in a strange way. It was kinda sweet kind of weirdly romantic. I actually had someone said Twitter message being like, you could tell my emotional state. But the fact that I just teared up at the romance of the meth. Really would like he went all out, and he really risked his freedom to show his wife one last good time. So this is the Email coming in from Tim. He says I live two blocks down from Duane in the tiny house of Searle's. I met him in early two thousand eighteen I was walking around town. And when I walked by his place, he was jamming to the ride the lightning album of Metallica. This dude is like nonstop rock. He says my favorite band and album, then stroke up a conversation with him. He struck up a conversation with them. It led him to telling me story about how he got -ducted by aliens fucking. That's what his paranoia began. We're so he says I say, it's the meth, and I think Tim you might be onto something I could be the methods. Well, introduced him to your podcast. I listen to I I it's just amazing that this dude, maybe listened to av service. We have a couple of celebrities that listened to us. But for some reason, I was like like Henry wrote back and in Texas. I think we made it. Yeah. I can't imagine a wreath. Like, we we got. Searle's? Honestly makes me it because it's something it was like the guy that got a shot by his dad that didn't did the interview on national television with the last pot gusty sherline nothing. This is our legacy. So what have you listened to? Well, he says I listened to the Betty embargo hill episodes with this man looking wave loved and continue to listen to last podcast. I wanted to so fricking funny. I want to thank you guys for the show. I got into a bad car accident. Oh, well, anyway, but he he broke his ankle and his foot while I'm happy that you're feeling better. Now spent four months in a wheelchair. Thank you so much for listening to him that story. So Dwayne Johnson. Listens to the show. We've officially made it we didn't if we can keep the meth, and we rock that's not that Renault. We don't even I don't the rock is just going to criticize busy busy in. Honestly, he's just gonna Marcus. And I don't need all of that. And I'm a stone cold mankind guy anyway. And quite frankly. Like him. I I don't hate there. I'm talking about wrestling not doing Johnson as a person because I interviewed Mick Foley. And he said the only match that he doesn't ever talk about nor does he like, and he says, no one should watch. It is the I quit match with the rock when he's his arms are handcuffed behind his back. His hands are handcuffed behind his back, and he took like thirty straight chair shots to the head shit and his family was crying in the front row. Anyway, that's, but that's not the Rockville that was they they agreed. That was the agreed to pay agreed on that the the mankind was so crazy. So anyway, thank you for the Email fascinated and just so fricking funny to know that this to listen to our Betty and Barney hill episodes, and I hope you like them if we can keep someone with a brain full of meth entertained. Hey, I actually think that's hard to do. I think so because I mean, honestly talk about short attention span being able to lock into those are two hour and a half episodes. There were thick with details about aliens and touch os. We're doing our job at the speed. We need to do her job. And we have to keep it going fat matter of fact, we're all running on Dunkin right all the time. So. Already a light level of speed. Absolutely. All right. So fine. Just the final story. This is I'm going to say, it's it's rare that we see a person who was on trial accused of a crime make it to hear hero of the week, which we don't do every week. But we'll just do it this week when we basically just do whatever we lost. So whenever we would like to do it. So maybe you guys know this, dude. It's sportscaster Warner wolf he was arrested for allegedly removing assign with racist connotations. So he's longtime. Sportscaster Warner wolf has been arrested for allegedly taking down a sign that spelled out the words plantation at his gated community in Florida multiple outlets reported that this dude is eighty one years old found the name of his private community. It's called the classic plantation estate in Naples offensive and one of the words removed. So he went to like their little whatever council. He's like, let's get these words out of there. And of course, they're old Christians, and you try to get someone retiree in Florida to do something fucking truly him. Engage. He's eighty one years old. He's. We had a couple over imagine. And finally, he's just like take down that fuck and signed down, brother. I'm taking down that sign right now. What are they going do Ning arisen eighty one year old, man? I wonder what the struggle physically was for him to take off the sign. I mean, honestly, Jim in the middle of the Admiral removing the removing the sign they said, so please recall to the gated community December fifteenth after residents complained about the vandalized sign when they arrived at thirties. Found a damage sign. They found a damaged sign was in a water fountain. So I love it. The individual letters spelling out plantation appear to have been intentionally broken off of both sides of the sign wolf who is famous for the catchphrase. Let's go to the videotape also allegedly captured on surveillance footage sign off the communities front gate. I love this guy. And I love honestly this. This is me eighty one years old we used to we used to do bad things when we were kids taking signs and stuff. This is a good use. Absolutely. Your ability to just say fuck the law, and I was just like eighteen or the rules. You just at eighty. You're eighty one years old, right? You're out there. You know what you can do? You can still make the choice to say to yourself. Let's go fuck shit up tonight. Let's get a little let's let's have some fun. Let's turn up the volume tonight. So you figure he probably had. I don't know what you drink at eighty one. Probably like, maybe some Scott hope sales. I imagine. It's a sports sportscaster, Bob. Glenn live at twelve years is probably his cash Scotty. Yeah. He said twelve. Yeah. Thank clink clink standing out there looking out there looking at the plantation. About the plantation house. Don't even know if he was close to it. I think you lived on the estate. Oh, yes. So his thought about or maybe he's tooling around in a golf cart could be because that's what I would be anyone in his wife if he's married he she is heard about this plan for twenty years. To dig it down. I'm digging that sign she's like you see it every day. Seems like Michelle Carter woman. We're gonna talk and did the texts about the suicide. She did that to him. But she but in a positive way, right? Absolutely. So Warner Wolfe hero of the week. Good job, buddy. And there's no reason I understand I would not feel comfortable living in a plantation. I get where he's coming from. If there is the bad symbol. It's a beautiful looking house. They bad symbol of the past. And all of that needs to sort of be thrown onto it needs to be thrown into a phone be radically, and you just build a new nice house. Part bet part of town. You could save a chunk of that wall. If you want or is your grand pappy as old farm, I keep the house just call it. A villa Avila. Villa random ranch hone in style homes, really good alternative plantation. So we have got to wrap it up here. But next week we're going to do more of a deeper dive on Michelle Carter. I mean because you wanted us Scott. She just got convicted of fifteen months for. Convincing her boyfriend in highschool essentially to commit suicide. Yes. In news. This story is fucked. She's a very intense looking young woman she is in. So we'll talk about this just the concept. You've got fifteen months. They appealed a she was convicted last year they appealed and the appeal has been not that didn't they did not win. But her. One of those things where it's like people want shot in your arm of like just like wanna be upset or being raged Rory to these tax 'cause it's fucking brutal. And yeah, so we'll talk about that next week. Just like should she be sentenced is so over the top. This isn't just like you're an asshole, and they're like you caused that person to commit suicide. This is straight up the get back in the car. Go do it. Why you why haven't you done it yet? Right. You keep saying again gambling. Why why are you still alive? Oh, my great up because it's like keep thinking that you're going to do these things. But then you don't do them. Right. Like like, they are like it's about finally booking that vacation that they've been talking going, right? That kind of weird boyfriend girlfriend fight, but it's fucking not. Absolutely. So Email us at side stories L P O T L gmaiLcom with your thoughts on that. Because I am actually really that's that's a fun discussion. I think I think so because it's just slippery slope to because I don't want to be blamed for someone's death. Because don't tell them we commit suicide. Well, that's a good point. Hey, I love you. Don't. Hey, don't. Hey, don't. Hey, stop. That's another good thing. Do that. That's true too. Hey, hey, why don't we just do it in the? But oh my goodness. Well, I think that can get you a whole nother kind of Trump. Why not I don't because maybe that's not what they wanted to hear at that time. And then they do commit suicide next thing. You know, you're guilty of them committed suicide because you requested that they have intercourse with your Buttle. Well, I mean, it's just it's just a slippery slope. You're like you're saying it is a very difficult. It is. So let's not hash out the gover- station now because we have to talk about something next week. All right, everyone. Thank you, all so much relisted. First of all only make sure you're out there you live by the words, Mary unready things are under control going fast enough relays. You've got to get out there the volume this week. Yep. Yep. Make sure your neighbors know your home. That's a good idea this week. I don't know what that means. But smoking banks, Pat pots and pans around. And may come around they say, hey, please be quiet. You're like bil- bang mop of billions at demons are going to come and kill your family o- on them. You put right on them. Yeah. They didn't happy to hear it. Yeah. Absolutely. That makes all the sense in the world. That's right. That's not going to get you in trouble. All right. If it went live your life like you got one of them. I remember that. Because you do you only got one on one? You only want you to love your significant other of your alone. I'm sorry. That's fine. You'll find someone or just enjoy being alone. But you love that significant other like you could end up like the other dregs of the earth with no one. Well, also people like to be alone. Sure. It's good to be alone for I know, I agree with that. Sure. Yeah. But it's better to not be. It's it's hard to say it's hard to sick. It's hard to say and laugh laugh laugh laugh if you're ever feeling sad. It's a good thing to do. Just go. Yeah. But you can't do it in a funeral. He came back. And then it kind of sounds like a crime. That's good. Don't do it or funeral or don't do it in a court date because the judge will take offense to it in judges a very egomania, and they fucking don't let anything sly earns. Judges are intense. They got there on a power trip. Yeah. They are. All right, everyone. Thank you. For listening ale yourself, Satan Magoo's relations. He'll me. Thank you. Mary. Thank you. Mary. Oh, well, I'm sorry. Okay. I'm just trying to stifle a horrible Burke. His show is made possible by listeners like you. Thanks to our ad sponsors, you can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listen to go to last podcast network dot com.

Henry Casey Anthony hustler Bruce MacArthur Natalie Jerry Falwell Russia Bruce Larry Flint Toronto Los Angeles Starbucks Dwayne Johnson Florida Marcus Marcus New York City Kevin Mary
February 6: Fatal distraction

As It Happens from CBC Radio

49:54 min | 6 months ago

February 6: Fatal distraction

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis this season on uncover. VCE See this is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever you get your podcast this is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm carol off good good evening. I'm Chris Bowden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition fatal distraction. He warned of the outbreak and was told to stop now. A Chinese doctor is dead after himself. Contracted the virus but the officials story is sewing anger out fanning the flames. Donald trump wasted. No time letting the world know how he feels about his acquittal on impeachment charges but democratic strategist says the president has only fired up his opponents to win November in northern British Columbia hereditary chiefs chiefs face arrest in their protest against the coastal gasoline pipeline. Our guest whose job it was to mediate between the sides says it's a sad day going off the rails a train carrying crude oil veers off track and bursts into flames in Saskatchewan just months after a similar accident nearby. We'll hear from a truck driver who ran to help ahead of their time to capture the big stars of little women. The film's onset photographer. decided that his equipment and his process Tattoo Click with the period and acting the age. It's been a decade. Since a member of a sad keanu reeves. Eating a sandwich exploded online. But it's making history three once again in a classic depression era photo as it happens. The Thursday edition Radio Makes Keanu observations. He had the courage to speak out about a mysterious new virus. He saw emerging in Wuhan China then after facing intimidation from local officials. CELS Dr Lee when the young came down with the corona virus himself earlier today state news in China reported that Dr Lee had died then mysteriously authorities. He's backtracked claiming he was still alive later. Confirmation finally came that the doctor had succumbed to the virus. Cecilia Wang is a researcher at the Economist. She's been following the Chinese social media reaction to Dr Lee's story. We reached her earlier today in Shanghai a few minutes before Dr Lee's death was finally confirmed. Cecilia can he described the reaction. You have seen tonight to the news about Dr Lee Since the news broke I'm seeing a lot of raw emotions and on China's social media like We chant and the twitter like Way Ball. I'm seeing an outpouring of grief. Ace over the death of Dr Leelanau and tributes to his courage and also next went a seething anger That could be described. The system Some people are even describing it as the first national mourning on we chant. Can you tell us about the the conflicting stories that were coming out about whether Dr Lee had actually died. And this is a very bizarre case and the official mouthpiece global times and People Daily both reported on it and also not just In Chinese but also on twitter there Twitter accounts both Posted it and but later they deleted these reports. Can you just tell us a bit of the background story of Dr Lee. I mean he was among the first to raise concerns about the the new corona virus. What when was that and what did he what did he? He do at the end of December. Last year he sent out a message in a We chant group chance Alerting His classmates I think it was a group of his university classmate. She was saying there were seven. Confirmed SARS cases uses in a seafood. Market I at the time. He said it was far because of the time. We didn't know it was this new corona virus and A few days later this Someone took a screen shocks of this interaction and sent this photo to multiple group chance and then it starts circulates on The Chinese social platforms. What was the reaction on the part of the authorities to that a few days later the local police apprehended him and asked him to sign a document saying he understood his mistake and he would stop doing that? Stop doing what. Stop telling people that there was a potential danger to their health. What they police accused him him of doing was spreading rumors and after he was apprehended by local police Even Chinese official media reported on this story story saying eight people were spreading rumors about virus. So okay no says the time line here. We're talking about the early January at this point right. Yes and it's still at this point the The Chinese authorities are not leading. The they're their own people. Are The world know that there is this potential crisis correct They were even discrediting Dr Lee and the seven others. How did he get sick? Unlikely he got sick For treating a patient this is when he knew there was a virus or at least There was This new monia happening at the time. She wasn't sure at a time that a what contagious so I understand that. By the time he was being diagnosed. China was still L. insisting there were no new cases this is like by January tenth so at this point the the virus is spreading quite rapidly. Isn't it yes But The time the number was going up and more people are getting sick during that time but the government didn't announce it was as a serious as they It would actually was until I think a past the twentieth of January and he started to show symptoms comes around tense jury and I understand that Dr Lee was continuing to give interviews. He was still speaking out about what he knew even even as he was gravely ill and in hospital what what was he saying in a High Shane interview he said dance. A healthy society should not have just one voice. I think that struck cord for a lot of people in China and speaking out watch for him. At first he got reprimanded and later I think he got to a point where people realized that How serious yes? The situation was so people were giving kind of supporting him in a way to make him relatively untouchable trouble. I would say you mentioned that. They the outpouring of responses grief and that people are angry at the system. What are they saying about the system? The Chinese system system people right now are saying While he was alive he didn't have the freedom to speak now he has passed he. It doesn't have the freedom to die so people are kind of seeing him as a symbol a martyr and just finally understand. His parents are both ill now with the virus. He has a a child a young child and his wife is pregnant with another the child. Do you know how they are if the child and his wife are. Okay what we know for sure. Is that structure Lee in an earlier interview. Sad about His his parents both were confirmed of contracting despite Chris earlier but we don't know How they are doing One version is that they have They have been cured and have left the hospital and the other version is they are in critical conditions and As for his child some are saying the wife is with her family outside of Wuhan and she is okay and us us. Another version is saying that she is also in critical conditions after contracting this virus. So we have. We don't have a confirmed armed US report on how his family is doing right now so difficult to get straight answers I sincerely I know it's very late there and I appreciate you'd speak with us. Thank you no problem. Thank you take. Cecilia Wang as a researcher with the Economist. We reached her earlier today in Shanghai. If you live in the small village of Guernsey Saskatchewan. It was a scary sight to wake up to just after six. AM thirty one train. Cars derailed starting a huge huge fire and sending billows of black smoke into the air. The train was carrying crude oil and that firemen Guernsey which just half-a-kilometre from the derailment had to be evacuated. Did two months ago another train. Also carrying crude oil derailed just ten kilometers away from today's site after this morning's accident the federal government ordered all trains trains carrying dangerous goods to travel no faster than forty kilometers. An Hour. Kyle Brown is a truck driver who raced to the scene. We reached him in Calgary at the airport where where he just landed. Kyle Niro on the road early this morning. What was the first sign of trouble that you saw? The first thing I I saw was the the big mushroom of fire sky. What did you think that was when you side? I mean originally. I thought it was a vehicle behind me. It laid it up the truck from behind so much. I thought it was another vehicle behind me and I mean I looked in the mirror and I could see the flames and smoke and right away I knew exactly it was so you can see behind you. So what did you do when you saw the fire in your rear view mirror I turn around fast and I mean obviously the first first concern was. Is there any houses close by. I'm not particularly familiar with that area. So my first thing was was turning houses you know real close. Aw and obviously the the conductors in the engineers and all that after making sure that none of those guys were were heard are trapped or anything like that which I mean. I wouldn't have been able to do much for him anyway. Didn't make the call to the DRC impede and on one and and get back. Get some help for them and so when you got there you could. Could you see I know this is early in the morning. It's still dark. Could you see what had happened. Yeah I mean there is train cars on almost under road. How many cars did you see how derailed I? It was very hard to tell like. There was a big far lots of smoke but I estimated you know twenty five to thirty for sure and did you see anybody who needed help. I did not. I actually came across one of the train doctors. I I the ten minutes after Still on the phone with nine one and I can see walking down to track with flashlights on checked out on and I said you know all your crew grew counter before you guys are OK. These radio contact with all of our crew on both ends of the train. That's that's one thing that's taken care of obviously feel the heat from this fire. I definitely could I pass by originally right away and and I could feel the heat my legs and door because we're talking about crude oil on fire fire here right and so what we were able to talk much with the conductor who I actually gave him a ride he He just put some slayer under road so to warn Somewhere motorist as snow almost often every normals slowing down you know taking pictures and videos and they were stopping pretty close into the flames and I mean I didn't feel comfortable pass by it at one hundred kilometers an hour. I don't see how they could feel comfortable stopping there. And so we did he tell you about what had happened. He told me that he actually didn't even realize they add derailment. They have some emergency Systems in their locomotives monitor air pressure drop and it automatically applies all breaks training so that was their first first indication according to the doctor and soon as emergency system kicked in obviously they look behind him they see the fire and the mess and they unhooked ought from the cars that were still thought to them right away and and moved away. Wow and so he. The any people on the train would have been with that that front section section. That could move away yes and so they. How quickly after that did you start to see emergency crews arriving it was actually quite wait? Awhile I WANNA save probably twenty five minutes to half an hour firefighters coming in. Yes it is able to do and they got there. They didn't really do do much. I I guess they Assisted the the RCMP's original Request which was closed the road keep traffic out of it. I had actually spoken to one of the firefighters. He actually worked at the landing in mind. He told me he was on his way to work. And obviously he came out and same decided and turned around and went back to to to join into the fire departments for for their response and eat actually told me that their thought they were shutting down the landing in mind because of the smoke. Obviously they don't want crew smoking down into their remind Chacin. Did you stay until they until it was light out just about. I did leave because like I etiquette this flight so but you could see I mean now we can see that the later on you could see the smoke. The how thick black that smoke was wanting When daylight but did you know how dense smoke was that you were standing beside you? Could you could definitely see it even in a dark. There's there's lots of lights from the mine so you could. You could see how thick it was still no. That's in the same. Just roughly the same place. There has was another train derailment just about almost exactly two months ago to the day and that they There's a leak of about one and a half million liters of crude. Did you ever. I would think about that particular stretch. Why that why it has what so problematic I mean? I have my personal opinion which is a poor track maintenance. I mean that's just my personal opinion. You yourself you're a truck driver for an oil refinery right I am. How do you feel about trains being the main transport for carrying crude? Well that keeps on top of any of this stuff deal all. Remember the the big accident in connector few years ago and the loss of the town and and a loss of life Asian people in towns. Speak it out every time it's got it's got a set of tracks running through Ebony. CD's these crude oil trains through and this particular stretch there was The people living close by but nothing like you're talking about Lac megantic and that horrible situation. That town people have said in the past that they a argument is that it's it's safer to go by train than by pipeline. So what what do you say to that. I really don't believe that I really don't believe eh off of there's so many different factors so many different moving parts traits compared to a stationary. We'll play. I just believed that an oil pipe can be service service to maintain so much better but you know what I know. You've had a very long day. You've been really helpful for us and I'm sure very helpful for those people at the train that was it was great that you were there and Kyle appreciate speaking with you. Thank you take can't Kyle. Brown is a truck driver for an oil refinery who raced to the scene of today's derailment in Saskatchewan we reached him. In Calgary. Greta Gerwig may have been shut out of the best director. Category category at this weekend's Oscars but her movie little women is still being honored as a complex well-made picture with five other nominations and speaking of complex well-made pictures there are Wilson. Webb's photographs of the movies cast. Mr Webb has been an onset photographer for years. He also took behind the scenes shots of another major twenty twenty contender marriage marriage story but never before his he shot images quite like the ones he took of Meg. Joe Beth and Amy March. We reached Wilson Web in Saint Paul Minnesota listen. What made you decide? You're going to approach the onset photography for little women a little bit differently As soon as I talked to Greta and she offered me the job. I just knew that this was a perfect way to use photography in the period of film and grabbing Greta Gerwig who is a it was the director of little. Yeah and so. How did you work on this like you had? There's a process. You have to go through what what does exact. What's it called this photography system that you using? Well there's a few different ways that it's often refer to Colombian is one term. That's used the locks. 'cause that's the medium that holds the silver to Be Exposed Light. Wet Plate is another one or ten type is very famous term back in the eighteen fifties and sixties there. How difficult is it to take photographs with this? It's quite a process It involves a lot of steps. There is some dangerous chemicals although they're not as bad as some other photo processes that are historically very very dangerous but There many many steps that if not followed can result in getting image whatsoever. Okay okay. That's no good And so is it just like we've seen it in the movies. The old cameras that you have to go. You're you're you're underneath. The cost is a flash that goes off that his blinding blinding is that that is that we talking about here. That is what we're talking about. We're talking about a large format camera. So it's an eight by ten big view camera with a big piece. The glass on the back and the Lens that I'm using is a hundred thirty nine year old Doll Meyer Lens. Made in London and There is a ton of light. There's twenty five thousand watts seconds of flash when that goes off the person sitting in front at the camera and wave of heat and they can also smell the ozone. That's creative and so I am the camera hammer itself. The Colombian camera is from. Is it of the era as well. Actually no the the camera. Oddly enough is fairly new from a company called the intrepid. It's SORTA wasn't the best choice but it's what I had to learn the length with the lenses circa little women is it that's correct. It's a very large brass lands. Way Four Times as much as the camera body itself so I had to make supports and I had to kind of make. Sure it's GonNa stay steady. Okay so now you've got them in for the portrait's and described I've I've seen them. They're they're they're just beautiful. What what did you? I have to do in order to have your subject. Sit for this each of these actors who played one of the little women. Well what I did was I would have them. Come over to my setup my lighting set up and I had a darkroom Small docker setup also because they need to do things as we're moving along and then we would Pose figure out a post I would focus Through the camera and say okay. Now you need to sit like that until alike come back. I'M GONNA go with Colombian on this piece of aluminum plate. Dip It in the silver oxide bring it back. Take the picture her and then go back into my dark room to a few other little chemical processes and then we would dip it into the fixer and together we would look at the image come up much. Like an old polaroid photo would come up and so did they now is it as they would have done in the eighteen sixties which is the era of the story Did they have to stay very very still for for for two out there with moving and they only had to sit for maybe about thirty seconds. Okay now the other thing that makes them very authentic is that nobody is smiling. And as we know from photos of that era from the nineteenth century that they everyone looks grim. I mean is. Is there a reason why nobody smiles in these pictures. Yes there's a couple of reasons. The most important and biggest reason was at the time to talk was fairly new and it was very serious and to you have a photo taken of yourself would cost a considerable amount of money and photography did at the very beginning what they were emulating portrait's that that were painted so you also didn't see a lot of classic portraits where people were smiling so this is mostly a stylistic reason but but it's also because it's hard to hold an expression for twenty thirty seconds now. Everyone is very happy with these photos how do you. Ucla about. Do you think you you got what you wanted from from this process. I think yeah. I'm very happy with how they came out Although if I was trying to pass as a photographer in eighteen sixties I would probably be left out of the studio and the reason being as all the things that make them interesting Komo textures and we're Shading and banging that you can kind of see in the portrait's are interesting to us now because we're so who desensitized because of Digital Chris Shar photos so but back in the day. Those are attributes that that would have been seen as mistake and would not have been presentable whatsoever. And the and and you're happy and and do you think that the the the march which sisters and Marmee March do you think you've captured. Probably if they really were people what they would have looked like. I think I got as close as I could with with the tools and the time provided. Yeah I if I could go and do it again I might change things so that's always going to be the case. They're much closer to how they would have been than I was afraid they would not be. Okay Hi okay. We'll let you know what we're GonNa let the listeners. Be The judge and we're going to give them the links they need to go and And see these these really beautiful photographs and And we'll let them decide because clear not going to charge your own work as Jeff Wilson. It's great to talk to you thank you thank you care. Take they care about they. Wilson web is the onset photographer for Twenty Twenty Oscar contenders little women and marriage story. We reached him in Saint. Paul Minnesota Soda. You can see Mr. Webb's photos of the March women on our website at CBC DOT CA SLASH AI h He's more accustomed to looking for votes than for love but an ad on an online dating site makes it look collect. The mayor of Niagara Falls. Ontario is all about kissing mature singles instead of kissing babies. The trouble is he never signed up for that site. His photos were used without his permission and are likely associated with a fraudulent account. Mayor Jim the. Do Daddy says people have posed as him on dating sites for years and he's tried to shrug get off but now they've crossed the line after bringing his kids into the picture the CBS's Daniel Tacoma spoke with mayor. De About the situation on one end you feel invaded and in another end your flatter so you know. I'm not really sure how to take it but I had quite a number of friends screen. shotting this rush in sending it to me and asking me what's up and I I sent back question marks and finally I think probably get ahead of this amazing deal with it and we'll see where it goes I. I didn't expect it to pick up steam. I thought it faded away. It's been happening over the years so I'm in my tenth year as mayor and started happening within the first couple of years ears you know strangers from the United States email me and say you should be aware that someone's using your identity so the whole thing thing seemed odd. I didn't know how to take it. I thought I felt kind of weird about it. But what really got me rubbed the wrong way. It was when they use my kids. So I've got three kids thirteen sixteen and eighteen and someone on plenty of fish is using pictures of my kids to market their own dating waiting potential. And I just the scraping. Yeah I gotcha so this is a bit of a personal question but are you looking for love is there. Any potential crossover consumer awesome well. WHO's not looking for love but But I'm not. I've never been on a dating website and I have nothing against them You know I'm a single dad. Ah You know three kids. I got a busy busy job. Busy life is there a bit of a silver lining for this In that maybe you know. Even though you're not on these dating sites ask asking working for you maybe well you know. What are they saying politics? You know any news is good news just my name right. That's Niagara Falls Ontario Ontario Mayor. Jim Do Daddy speaking with CBS's Daniel Tacoma. Uh Hey it's Annamaria tramonte and I'm excited to tell you about my new podcast. It's called more and I'll be talking to people. You may think you already know until you hear them here. We've got a little more time to explore and to probe and even to play a little. So so get ready for the likes of David. Suzuki Catherine O'Hara Margaret Atwood. And many others you can find more with Anna Maria tramonte wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Donald Trump is celebrating today. In fact you could go as far as gloating yesterday of course the Senate acquitted the US president onto impeachment charges and this afternoon. Mr Trump gave an hour long victory speech that has been described by news. Outlets as freewheeling and vindictive. He made fun of his rivals apologized to his family for what they've been put through and thanked his colleagues who defended him throughout the process. Here's a clip. This is really not a news. Conference for instance not a speech. It's not anything it's just were sort of Is a celebration. Because we have something that just worked out. I mean it worked out. We went through hell on fairly did nothing wrong. Did nothing wrong. I've done. Something's wrong in my life. I will admit not purposely but I've done things wrong but this is what the end result is. Donald Trump speaking earlier today. Kelly Dietrich is a strategist and the founder and CEO of the National Democratic Training Committee which offers training training to Democrats. Who Want to run for office or work on campaigns? He's in Chicago he dietrich reduced here. Donald trump doing his victory lap. So what's the mood. Among among Democrats today I would say the mood is a mix of the continued frustration. Anger Hope and determination govt to make a change in November. And what could you possibly do to make a change in November at this point because the guest we had on last night. Republican said that this is Mr Trump's best week ever that he is high in the polls he is Lauding the economy that he's taking credit for not all of its his but he's Connie's going booming in your country. What could you possibly point to as something that you can look to his optimism? Well as we learned in two thousand sixteen elections have consequences. It's a quences and two thousand. Twenty is not two thousand sixteen. The vin candidate trump came through that election proclaiming himself as the most successful successful businessman. Ever people were able to project onto him what they want now. The president has record. That record is filled with lies. mistruths Bruce inviting foreign powers to interfere in our election and while the president may be taking a quote unquote victory lap. Today a vast majority of this country knows and understands even if the Senate did not vote to acquit that he used his presidency for personal gain and corruption. But it seems that well first of all he has the highest support in the Gallup poll ever since his beginning of his presidency is now close to half and that a large number of Americans. You can say well whatever presidents do that politicians do whatever they have to do. They don't seem to have a problem with what the what he was impeached for. So you're up against a lot of people who don't seem to think this. This is a big deal. Welcome to American politics. Half the country is going to disagree with the other. The half and this election in November twenty which is a politically turnkey from now and while he may be couldn't put writing high at forty nine percent which is the highest. He has been a long way to go. And this election is never going to have fifty one. Even fifty two percent of the people agree upon appointed candidate. This election will be one in few key battleground states that matter most we believe that a message it continued message from the pinnacle of Healthcare Access for everyone that climate change is not a miss that issues that affect the real devoter are what matter and while Republicans like to point out two thousand sixteen. I'd like to point out two thousand eighteen when a democratic wave swept over the country at every we level at the National Train Democratic Training Committee. We've been on the ground in all six states. In every state we have seen a continued amount onto enthusiasm of overwhelming engagement of purpose. That Democrats are eager to get out and work and correct what they think was. It was a horrible mistake. Country made in two thousand sixteen. Do you think that there has been a reliance on the part of Democrats The idea that that donald trump will will expose himself that he is his own worst enemy that he will self destruct and that is that's what's going to happen in to the advantage of Democrats. Do you think those are kind of in in some to some degree if not largely a reliance on the idea that Mr trump is his own worst enemy would agree. I think that many in the Democratic Party ready with believe that the self destructing the self-destructing efforts and actions. He's already taken would have been enough to remove any other president just in from office but the president has shown that the normal rules and traditions don't apply to him so in fact that he not only will he not self destruct he appears to be indestructible well. I wouldn't go so far as indestructible. I think that in the current system. It is set up where his party continues to put their own political whole power ahead of what's best for the country so the only at this point the true referendum on Donald Trump will be the elections in November. Two Thousand Twenty twenty. And I am optimistic. Feel good about the democratic chances. But what do the Democrats have to offer in November twenty. Twenty where's the leadership. I know you're the process. Look of looking for that. But where's where's someone who's going to pull your party together. I mean. Do you see that seems even among the candidates who are put forward divisions isn't just dysfunctional events like Iowa. Well I would challenge the assumption. The question that the party is divided it is not it is having a primary process and again after working in all fifty states we see this continually that Democrats like take a lot of these candidates. They may be voting for Warren or Biden or Bernie but they're willing to work for whoever gets the nomination. The problems in Iowa have to do with the Democratic Party and not the party overall the party overall is united behind emission of winning in November. Twenty all right if you have Joe Biden as your leader is going to be attacked by Donald Trump as being corrupt along with his son. If you have Bernie Sanders as you leader or some others others who are on that same left side of Bernie Sanders. He's going to be attacked by. Donald Trump is being socialists. How do you defend that? Well no matter who comes through the nomination nation the Republican Party in Donald Trump in a label them a socialist. They're going to say things like they WANNA take your healthcare away and give it to people that don't look like you. Unfortunately those kinds of attacks ax are effective in certain parts of the country with certain voters. Unfortunately they use emotion to create divisiveness. Fear as a motivation for people to go out and vote. Democrats need to learn and understand that. We can't use facts figures in logic to motivate people. We need to use emotion as well now not the same emotions that Republican party uses but emotions when we talk about issues like healthcare when we talk about issues like climate change when my daughter goes outside to play I have a six year old daughter when she goes outside to play. I shouldn't be worried that she's GonNa get asthma. Because the coal plant they opened up down the street has been polluting the air and then I can't get her cover because she is a pre existing condition on healthcare. It's too expensive for us. We need to personalized these stories and make it compelling to the voter we will be watch. Listen Dietrich thank you. Thank you very much. Those Democratic Strategist Kelly Dietrich in Chicago came down to the wire but Megan millward Lia Zhang are finally heading home today. The Montreal couple and their two young kids were among one hundred. Seventy six people who boarded a charter plane out of Wuhan China. They're expected to to arrive at an army base in Trenton Ontario. Early tomorrow morning where they'll be put under quarantine for fourteen days. Mr Zhang was not the only permanent resident given a ride back to Canada Canada. There were thirteen in all but his spot wasn't confirmed until Thursday night local time. CBC News Net hosts marshawn spoke to the couple afterward as they waited by the gate. Everybody seems pretty relaxed. Relieved probably They're relining up to head to the gate. We're thrilled that that were both here together. And the kids are really excited. Because they're moving walkways and vending machines and things to keep them busy so everybody is in a pretty good mood Coming back to Canadian soil Li. I understand there was a question mark about your return to Canada. You are a permanent resident. There was a lot talk about weather. Permanent residents will be allowed to board. How did that come about for you that you are at the airport and ready to get on that plane you know? I decided that I have the drive my wife and two kids to the airport. Why just wait here? I'm there is a chance so so so do not wait wait. We were the last afford to register on the plane and we told them our situation. And you know the kids are too young and then The called the level of air fares and also talk to the Beijing and Missy as well the finally confirmed yes you're indigo so was great great museum. We didn't really think anything was going to happen because it was yes. I don't know maybe five or six. PM So apparently became in the wrong door. The airport if we had come in the proper departure level door they would have barred an him entry because his name was not on the list at that point but we parked the car in another parking lot in came in on the wrong floor and so it's it was just flew here. Yeah Yeah they said Oh. You're in the wrong place but we'll get you to the right place so he probably wouldn't have been able to board the flight even if they had called me to say okay. He can go because he he wouldn't have been in the airport. It was just pure luck that we got not invite around door. That's Montreal couple. Megan millward and Leah's Zhang speaking to CNBC news net before boarding a government chartered plane out of China. A second charter flight carrying the remaining Canadians expected to leave him on Sunday. It's been a day of upheaval at the site of a proposed pipeline project through northern BC for weeks wet Sowetan hereditary chiefs and their supporters have been demonstrating against the coastal gasoline project now. RCMP officers have started making arrests. This morning's raid comes after talks broke down between the chiefs the government and the companies behind the proposed pipeline for deep emp. Nathan Cullen is the government appointed liaison the as on between the parties involved in those talks. We reached him in Smithers BC. This account as far as you know what happened this morning at Ganden checkpoint point what we understand is that there's various kilometers. You'll hear it referred to that our longest this forest service road. The police moved in in at one of those kilometers to remove people I don't believe what so attendance supporters of Minnesotan in the whatsoever And then beyond that kilometer point there's a number of trees and such that are lying on the road that have been put there some weeks ago that I believe the police are then seeking to remove as well and then there's a camp further on and then much further on six kilometers down the road. There is a healing encounter As well which is at a bridge that has been a lot of contention throughout this whole whole conflict. And so all the people who were in those those those places. Mississippi's have they all been arrested. I don't believe all of them have or I believe number reason number I'm working with is six or seven Some people chose not to be arrested. I believe one person was a member of the media and they were returned back to an earlier point in the road. Essentially the exclusion zone. I believe the computer for two thousand and that exclusion zone. They they remove people who are not there. I think there's working on an access because protocol for the chiefs to be able to enter into the rhetoric chiefs. The what's and and what do you know about the timing of this why now why have the RCMP moved on those facilities celebrities and arrested people. Now this was all stunning from an injunction as you know from December thirty first a court order to clear this pathway for this this company. CG L. to go in and build this pipeline and so just past week the we're in a conversation with the province of British Columbia area to see if there was some way to avoid today which is a very bad day you know I can't Being on this territory settling in the territory of my family. This is not a good day. Let's say was Everyone sought to avoid it. I don't think anyone wanted it. So why today Well those talks talks were unsuccessful the whatsoever ten chiefs Continue to talk to the province about Other things and opening up what's called goose process. And that is something small but hopeful in the future because there's GonNa be another day and sincerely hope and I think it's everyone's intention that the conversation between DC. What took you? There will continue. And we don't end up in this position again but you you've been appointed as the liaison between the Providence. The wet saw her terry chiefs the the company you have the trust of all those different parties do do they share with you. I'm sure the the chiefs certainly share. But do you think the government The company would they agree with your assessment. That has been a very bad day. I think that this day is happening at all. All is not what anybody wanted and I again won't speak for any of the parties but the efforts that were put into try to avoid this day. I think good faith efforts I think they were sincere. I wouldn't have done the small part that I was doing if I thought there was insincerity and that people were trying to end up with this enforcement than this day where people are being arrested this can be quite re traumatizing for people that Interactions with the place over many years and generations have left uh real mark This is not The WAY WE WANNA be together I can say that from the center point of view. Now what happens next is also of importance because of what's Alton oaten aren't going anywhere and the issues that underpin what's happening today Will not be resolved by what happening. Today they'll be resolved by talks at a table able that we can come to some point of Reconciliation between the parties. And so there's tons of work to be done Yet I I. It might sound strange today. I I feel incredibly shaken by this inside but I I can I can feel hopeful too. Because knowing these chiefs and the dignity and the authority they have and wanting to believe that the government in Victoria Wants to reconcile we. I would humbly suggest need Ottawa to step up. Who have been to this point completely to the side And that's unfortunate. Because I know Mr Trudeau has made significant promises to indigenous peoples to be there and do the hard work well. This hard work is needed here as much as it's needed anywhere in the country. Why do you feel shaken inside today? because of the uncertainty when oceans are running so high when people feel so passionately early About this and rightfully so and then when you bring in Significant police into an area it all becomes uncertain. You can so you can write down. All the protocols agreed to all the steps that hopefully are taken to maintain safety for people and yet it is uncertain still and and I have been personally too well aware of Canada's history when things go wrong and I know significant number of people autumn not territory and yet my discomfort or sadness is absolutely nothing compared to what's going on for my whatsoever friends who Again as I talked about Had A history with government and with police that is so different than yours and mine and and those are the folks that are most feeling for for today because We we wish for something better. We work for something better and I still got to hope that that better is really possible despite what's happening right now Mister Collins thank you thank you Nathan. Cullen as the government appointed liaison between the whatsoever and hereditary chiefs the government and the coastal hostile gasoline pipeline. He was in Smithers BC earlier today CBC spoke with so it hereditary chief pneumovax about this morning's arrests we have don anything illegal. Illegal actions are being taken on by the ICMP. The elected governments provincial and federal. And there's been stirred by industry. We are not illegal. We are all of our law protecting clean. Modern Art food sources are sacred sites are GonNa site and yet this is how they treat us in a supposed the free and democratic country this is not a democracy and it sure is not an example apple reconsiliation. They don't realize the world is watching what they were doing the second time now to our nation to our people orlands how could that be. That's what so and hereditary chief pneumovax speaking with. CBC earlier today as Chief Mocks mentioned in today's arrests happened just over a year after RCMP. Officers arrested fourteen people protesting the very same pipeline on whatsoever and territory. uh-huh In September of nineteen thirty to someone took a photo far above the streets of New York. City it's famously known as lunch top skyscraper and it depicts eleven ironworkers on a girder. One of whom is enjoying a sandwich in May of twenty ten and someone took a photo on the streets of New York City. It's famously known. As Sad Keanu and it depicts one actor Keanu Reeves on a park bench enjoying being a sandwich or judging by his expression enduring a sandwich. The first picture symbolizes hope for a world recovering from the Great Depression. The second picture symbolizes despair for handsome man recovering from his own lunch. The only thing they have in common is they both feature one half eaten sandwich so the three things really stick out when you see lunch atop skyscraper as it appeared in a great ten history textbook in Ukraine. I there are two a half eaten sandwiches second. There are twelve men on the girder and third the twelfth man is Ken Reeves see well okay so so. In Two thousand ten sad Keanu became a meam people photo shopped the sad looking Mr Reeves into all kinds of situations including into that famous photo lunch atop skyscraper and that is the picture that ended up in the Ukrainian High School Textbook illustrating a chapter about the United States between the wars. The publisher now says that it was a design error the professor who wrote the textbook however says he put it in on purpose to appeal to today's youth. If that's true he sounds like a fun. Generous Guy with a bit of a medium streak. You've been listening to the as has it happens. podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. CBC Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the web this this go to. CBC DOT CA slash. Ah and follow the links to our online archives. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. And I'm Chris. Hope I hope for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Donald Trump government president Dr Lee chiefs China keanu reeves RCMP US Cecilia Wang Calgary CBC Kyle Brown official Smithers BC Mr. Webb Kelly Dietrich Bruce Macarthur Canada
A killer pleads guilty and a city exhales

The Big Story

21:32 min | 1 year ago

A killer pleads guilty and a city exhales

"Take. A city exhaled yesterday just a bit, but it was badly needed. We myself in the investigative team are pleased that Mr. MacArthur has pled guilty today. Sparing the community and those who knew the victims of lengthy trial. I believe that this is the best possible outcome for the families and the community. For about two years in Toronto. It is felt like the overwhelming question around the crimes that led to Bruce. Macarthur's arrest has been how much worse is this going to get we started wondering at with dread after dogged reporting made it clear that men were vanishing in the church street village, three men disappeared over two years span. But it's only now that investigators are now making any kind of connection we asked the same question after each new cry for help from the community the fact that there was a serial killer that was out there the evidence does not point to that the evidence does not suggest that we wondered it after every please press conference. I when they said, there was no reason to believe there was a serial killer operating then this morning at approximately ten twenty five AM. Police arrested Sixty-six-year-old Bruce MacArthur, he has been charged with two counts of first degree murder in relation to Mr. kinsman. And Mr. Essen, we wondered it after every revelation made plane just how long the hints and the warnings had been there. Wait. Thing for investigators. We wondered it after every new charge every new body. Every announcement the police were spotted back at the Mallory crescent property where the remains were found and every time we asked at brought a new lurch of dread for the city's LGBT community for the families of the missing and dead men for Toronto which could only stare in horror the specter of a public trial loomed. Like, a gavel all the evidence will be laid bare the vultures of international media would swoop down on a grieving community. Imagine all the columns and opinion pieces, and the creepy fascinated voyeurs learning about how the victims were stocked and preyed upon it would have been a circus, and it would have broken Toronto in a very real way. So yes, the guilty plea that came Tuesday meant attentive shaky ex now the city will be spared at trial, though. So a different question needs to be asked. Maybe it won't get worse. But how can it get better? How does the city recover from a crime that fractured and already tense relationship between the police vulnerable community? How does the space lake Toronto's gay village that has served as a beacon for so many people fleeing prejudice and judgment start to feel safe again? I'm Jordan heath Rawlings. And this is the big story moment Karachi is a reporter at six eighty news. He has been on the ground covering the MacArthur trial since the arrest been to almost every hearing. He's had since then I met him is to one or two along the way, but pretty much everyone and made many visits to Mallory crescent. Yes, there were a lot of whispers well before the arrest that something was happening as someone who's who's a general assignment reporter for for a newsroom, we'll kind of whispers, we're going on around there. And what have you heard? Well, I mean, it was it was definitely something that was being talked about a lot particularly in the gay community in the village here in Toronto, you know, men were disappearing from that community people were feeling unsafe. There was a lot of talk about their potentially being a killer. The community was calling for kind of pushing police to look into it. There's some push back from Toronto police against it. And then, of course, their worst fears realized when MacArthur was. Rested of the we'll realized before that. But they came to fruition of being a real thing. When when the police finally arrested MacArthur, it feels like that was a moment that something change in the relationship between the city's gay community and the police, you know, it's it's definitely a relationship. That's been inflexible. We see evidence around this case. And then if you look at the ongoing back and forth about police in uniform participating in pride, right? They've definitely had a fractured relationship. Over years. You go back to the bath house raids that happened a few decades ago. So the relationship between the gay community and Toronto police has certainly been fractured overtime. I think Toronto police are at this point right now, hyper aware and have worked really hard over the last year, particularly the detectives involved in this case and really being in touch with the victims families with the community trying to reach out trying to get the information they need not only to solve this case. But also at the same time try to mend some fences and move forward. I mean, I'm not deep inside the community enough to be able to say on behalf of the community going. But I. Just over in the periphery having covered some of the stuff that is a little bit of what's happening. Take me inside the courtroom yesterday. What happened? Well, it was you know, it's really interesting if we could just go maybe two a day before that sure it was kind of surprising because I like I said, I've covered almost everyone of the hearings and even the last year which was just a couple of weeks ago is early this year Lee twenty nineteen the lawyers had said in the in the detectives had said that oh there's no plea yet. And in Canadian law plea, generally happens closer to trial date, just kind of the weeks and months leading up to trial the trial date had been set for January of twenty twenty. So we felt that a plea could come in a guilty. Plea could come but not until probably much later this year. So on Monday afternoon when police ended up that release that said just a heads up for the media. There's going to be a significant development tomorrow and to most of us that meant that a plea was coming in most likely a guilty plea. It was pretty surprising. I mean, it kind of caught a lot of us off guard that that's how quickly it was going to happen. And then in the courtroom, they had put us in the largest courtroom in the province because they clearly were expecting. There to be a a large crowd. And there was pretty much every seat was full. So was there's obviously a lot of journalists. But there was also lots of friends and family of the victims a lot of the police officers that worked on this case. The detectives the ones that were at Mallory doing all the digging and the excavating and a lot of the groundwork where there so there was a lot of people who had a lot invested in this outcome in the courtroom. And it was very interesting to see the procedure because I've never been there for an actual. I've inner for a guilty verdict of never been there for guilty plea, and it was interesting because going into the courtroom, nobody would confirm that out. So it's going to happen. So we all kind of expected it to happen. But when the judge finally kind of he kind of rolled into very nonchalantly this judge that was up there. He's kind of stuff covered cases where he's he's been up there, and he's very in control. But he's also very relaxed when he does it. So there's no like big dramatics when he does he's very calm. Very casual. And you know, he kind of MacArthur was standing there in the in the holding box, and he just said to him. Okay. We understand you want to plead guilty. And that was the. Time for us that we had heard it. So we all kind of like sat up, you know. It's like, oh that's interesting, and he basically outlined for MacArthur. He said before you do it. I have to kind of give you the rules. So I have to explain to you that you do not have to do this. You have every right to go to trial stand trial, and then have the verdict came out. And he said she said, so you're waving that you understand that. He said, yes, I understand. He said nobody is making you do this. You're doing this of your own volition? He said, yes, I understand. He said, do you understand that by pleading guilty here that you are essentially agreeing to a life sentence in prison because that is the automatic conviction for a first degree murder. He said, yes, I understand that. So we kind of laid all these rules for them. Right. And then he said, okay. As long as we have all that understood that you know, what you're doing. You're doing it on your own sound mind in judgment. Then you know, the core. I don't know what position yet, but somebody in the court in the courtroom, basically, then reads out all the charges one by one. So he wrote the dates the times the names of each of the victims and then asked him on this count. How do you plead on this can how do you plead in each time MacArthur in kind of a very soft? Voice said guilty each time. And so it was a kind of surreal in a lot of ways to see it. Because I don't think since he was arrested. There's never been any doubt that he did it right because police were very confident. I think they had all the information. You know, they had all the evidence all the stuff for Mallory. So as a pretty open and shut case that he he he was the one responsible, but it was still very strange to see him up there and confessed to it and really kind of seemingly out of nowhere because even afterwards detective Dickinson who was one of the lead detective on the case along with inspector and Singa. So that we may never know what his motive was or why he came forward, and and just decided to plea who were the victims because I feel like we're going to say Bruce mcarthur's name fifty thousand times today and nobody's saying name. And I I feel the same way, you know, I it's having covered this a lot. I try as much as I can to put the names of the victims and their because you know, they're the real not only victims here with the story as well. Yeah, they they should be the story. So their names are Cerruti scandal. Never Ratnam of the Besir fi. Karuna Canagaratnam Salim s Andrew kinsman Cayenne and dean, little wick. So those are eight men murdered over the course of seven years between two thousand ten and two thousand seventeen most of them with connections to Tronto gay village and from the LGBTQ community some of them had been in Canada for a long time. Some of them had only been here for a short time MacArthur, basically set up meetings with them and took advantage of them. And and committed murder, you mentioned how much evidence there was. Yeah. What does it mean? And how important is it that there won't be a trial? You know, I think it means a lot I just from a personal point of view as somebody who's covered murder trials covered. Some pretty heavy stuff before you know. I was covered some of the Malarde hearing covered the Mark mood. So hearing from start to finish. I was there for some of the Tori, Stafford stuff that stuff can be very graphic, very emotional and very heavy on your brain on your heart on your soul. Really? If you have to sit there and here, and that's just as a reporter. On the periphery kind of just hearing the details. But if you're if you're a juror just an average person from the public who's pulled in from this out of your, you know, you have no choice in the matter years kind of pulled in as as a civic duty and your put on that jury. If you're a lawyer, if you're somebody who has to be part of the courtroom staff, if you're a judge any one of those people, and that's to say, nothing of the family and the friends of the victims who are the real people you have to think about an scenario like this. So the fact that none of those people, particularly the family and friends have to sit there and here day by day because that trial was suppose was expected to last three or four months. Yeah. So that would've been three to four months of every day reliving part of that story. And we still will hear some of that stuff when they read the statements of fact next week when he goes when he goes back to court next week, but it won't have to be on a day by day basis for four months. You told us about the mood inside the courthouse as soon as that court, let out what was the mood outside. Like, what are how are people reacting? Are they are they relieved because I feel like yeah. I feel like. The city is relieved. I think relief is is a good word to pick. A a lot of people are relieved a relieved in a lotta ways. So I you know, I was looking at a lot of the Toronto police officers a lot of the detectives they seem to have a weight off their shoulders. They know their work is done just yet. But you know, I think they're relieved that they don't have to go through this whole process over the next year and a bit that they've been able to bring some relief to the families. Because even though I would I would guess that most of the families of these victims know that MacArthur, did it it's another thing for him to stand up and say, I did it. Yeah. You know? And that he didn't even have to be convicted that he stood up and said, Yep. I'm the one that did it. So there is a certain amount of I think relief that comes with that. I don't know about closure. I think closure can take a lot of time in several years. But in the immediate aftermath when we walked out into the hallway right outside the courtroom. You could see a lot of people breathing easy. I did see a few people leaving the courtroom with tears in their eyes, and those are some of their friends and families of those victims. Understandably it's a lot to handle especially since they read those brief statement of facts with some of those kind of. Really disturbing details in it. And then outside the courtroom, you know, detective Dickinson talk to us. We also spoke to the woman who owns the house on Mallory crescent, and she was so well-spoken and eloquent and well-thought-out. I don't know if I believe in the word closure. I think possibly easing is all all you get. For me closure won't happen. The way I'm trying to look at it. The man, I knew actually didn't exist. So that's the best. I can go with this is someone else entirely. Her name is Karen Frazier and she lives with her partner and she lives in that house for years. She is sort of one of the people that is sort of almost an accidental victim. And all this. You know, of course, the eight men who were murder the actual victims, and their families are the ones that are suffering, but for her she just kind of like an accidental victim because she had struck up this kind of agreement of relationship with MacArthur where like they would go away and MacArthur rich take care of the property when they would go to their cottage. And of course, he completely used her to to hide these victims and stuff like that. But you know, she had the misfortune of meeting a couple of the men that were murdered and and having to live on this now infamous property and to her credit. She's really trying to take ownership back of it. You know in a in a sort of figuratively, obviously, she still owns the property, but she's trying to make it that it's not just the property where McArthur hid the bodies of these eight victims of the remains of these. Victims that it's her home. That's a house of love. I can't remember what exactly it says. But she painted this beautiful kind of statement on her garage about love and kindness. You know last week on the one year anniversary of MacArthur's arrest. You had a a lone bagpiper common play on her driveway and invited all the reporters to come out. And the few people spoke what's going on in the community on church street because that's been a I mean, if it's been awful on anybody besides the families, it's been that community. Yeah. I mean that entire community. No I for for for years. There's been talking about this like we mentioned, you know, they've had a bit of a fractured relationship with police, and well, they were yelling about throw people going missing you ever months and year. Really? Yeah. And especially in the early months of this of this stuff. So I remember in January February March of last year, there was a lot of people that would come to the first few hearings for MacArthur, not only to see him. See what he looks like? And be a part b. For the hearings, but also to speak to us afterwards because they wanted to voice their displeasure with the with the police and kind of say we've been telling you for how long that this is a problem. So now that he's pled guilty. I think that it will be really interesting to see how the community reacts to this. How they go forward. How the relationship with Toronto polices. I think the chief chief Mark Saunders is very aware that that relationship is fractured at the moment. You know? Of course, we add in as an adjacent thing to what's happening with pride and uniformed officers not being allowed to March. So how closely are those two things tied together. Because it feels like a lot of the lot of the relationship between our on both sides. Yeah. I don't I don't know. Like, I mean, I'm not a member of that community. So it's it's hard for me to say, I don't think you can say, they're unrelated. But I don't know that they're completely joined at the hip either. But I mean, look those are two prominent things that affect the same community in our city, and they kind of tie into the same thing in the sense that people from the LGBTQ community feel that they're. With Toronto police in the way, they're treated with Toronto police isn't what it should be or exactly what it should be. Or isn't where it needs to be. And that it needs to get to that place. But it's not going to get to that place overnight. And it's going to take time I interviewed Olivia who is the executive director of pride last week. And she said, look, it's we've closed the door for twenty nine hundred police uniformed officers will not take part in this year's parade. And we don't know about the future. But we want to have that dialogue and work, really hard. So in this case with with the MacArthur investigation now admission of guilt, I imagine it's also the same thing that it'll take time. The police can't snap their fingers and make it happen. And nor does the community, you know, have to open their hearts right away and forgive. Yes. It it'll take time it'll take time. And and it's not for me or anybody else who is a straight or not of that community to say that they should hurry it up. It's you got they got there when they got there. And they gotta work it out with Toronto police on their own even beyond the church community. This seemed like a crime that kind of horrified everybody why did? Everybody in Toronto become captivated by the MacArthur case. Yeah, this is certainly one that gripped everybody. I don't think only in the city, I think really coast to coast. Yeah. But particularly in the city for obvious reasons. I mean, look LGBTQ community because it directly impacted them and members of their community, then you have to remember that MacArthur was a landscaper. So he was working at dozens of properties across the GTE. So it's it's possible. If you own a home in Scarborough or Togo or new market or wherever he possibly did work on your property in are there if you had kids, and they were running around playing outside or something. And he was there, you know, let's kind of thing that can potentially keep you up at night, or at least give you the shivers was entwined with the city. Yeah. He was he was a mall Santa in twenty seventeen weeks before he was arrested for murder. He was the mall Santa at age Cornell and Scarborough, so there is parents out there who potentially had his photo up on their fridge with their kids sitting on his lap. You know, and then, you know, just two or three weeks later you're looking at. That photo. And that guy is in prison awaiting trial for murder. I it's it's one of those things that can really rattle your rain and kind of scare you in effect you and even if you weren't directly impacted by the landscaping or the mall Santa or being part of the Q community. He has that we've all seen that photo of him smiling. Niagara Falls, you know, he just looks like a guy that, you know, even people that knew him say that he was really friendly guy. He's a really jovial guy. So it kind of creates that you do you really ever know somebody what is a lesson that the police the city and everyone else can take away from how this happened. And why it was so long to be discovered. Vo, you know. I think I think there's lots of lessons that can be learned in even detective Dickinson side that there's a lot of lessons to be learned. I think you know, they have to really work on Trump has to work on the relationship with the LGBTQ community. I think that when people are making those types of cries, maybe you have to really look seriously at it a little quicker, and I mean, it's easy for us to say because we're not sure on police, right? We don't know how often people are calling them saying that something's going. When someone goes missing, everybody calls, the police, sure. But it's it's there's there's a lot to be learned here in terms of heating people's warnings paying attention to certain communities police once they were on MacArthur trailed really did a good job in terms of tracking down and arresting them. And and you know, all the evidence they put together. But I think this is a case that isn't closed by any means because even you know detective Dickinson talked about how they're still looking into cold cases. They're still talking to other jurisdictions because they don't know because MacArthur hasn't really helped them out. That was my next question. Right. So he pled guilty to eight murders. Right for almost a year. We kept hearing the police are back searching for more remains in. There may be more victims does that stop. Now what happens next? So a number of times over the last year or some of my colleagues when inspector it's anger has spoken to us. Have asked is MacArthur being helpful, and he doesn't ever want to talk about it? He's never really addressed that question at least in any of the scrums that I've been in. And I think. That's partly because MacArthur wasn't being helpful right? And wasn't telling them anything. But now that he's confessed to it. And and pled guilty. It's possible that could change. I don't know. I'm not on the inside. But I know he didn't really he didn't from what I know. He didn't really help them out a lot over the past year. And that's why they were going through one hundred different properties. That's not. That's not a exaggeration that has an actual number. They were looking at over one hundred properties and the GTA and just beyond the way that he had worked at if he had helped them probably wouldn't have been that big of a number not to say that you should necessarily take the words of of an accused killer. As fact, but I mean, I don't think he was really helping narrow it down. So I mean, I guess I Trump lease may get some help from him. Or maybe this is all he did like just just he he committed eight murders. And and that's where the list stops. But I guess time will really tell and the agreed statement of facts will be out next week sometime. So next week's going to be a big week in a very emotional week. It was a little emotional in the courtroom. But next week they're gonna do the the restatement of facts, which is going to be very Indy. Detail about the eight different murders. What happened how it happened? You know, all that kind of stuff and then also family members and friends will get and read what's called a victim impact statement. And that will to address it directly to Bruce MacArthur. He is also I believe that appoint gonna be able to allow to get up and speak. Whether he will won't we don't know. So it's going to be very very emotional. That's expected to last three days next week. And then after that, the judge will decide what the sentence will be an he'll come back at a later date and decide what the sentence is. And they can decide to do a consecutive a concurrent, right? Some some mishmash of that. Either way. Whatever the decision is made. It is highly highly highly highly unlikely that Bruce MacArthur will ever get parole to walk up the doors of a prison. Whether he gets one my sentence or doesn't matter. He's never coming up. Thanks moment. You're thinking. Momen Karachi is a six eighty news reporter. That was the big story. Brought to you by Scotia. I trade you can visit Scotia TriCalm to start direct investing today, and you can visit us at the big story podcast dot CA, or along with our brother and sister shows at frequency podcast network dot com. You can hit up contact us forms on both those websites to tell us about stories. We should be covering. I'm jordan. He throwing thanks for listening. We'll talk tomorrow.

Bruce MacArthur Toronto detective Dickinson reporter murder Mallory Mallory crescent first degree murder Karachi Bruce mcarthur Bruce general assignment reporter Jordan heath Rawlings Mr. Essen Mr. kinsman twenty twenty Lee Scotia GTE Scarborough
The Not About SNC-Lavalin Edition

Stereo Decisis

1:12:58 hr | 1 year ago

The Not About SNC-Lavalin Edition

"And welcome to Stereo decisiveness assist the podcast about the law in Canada and beyond. I'm Robert Danny I am in Vancouver and I am joined today as always as Bhai my colleague in Vancouver Oliver Police Blanco pulley blank La Oliver. How are you doing today doing great rob and congratulations on the new position? Thank you thank you it has actually begun since our last episode and I am enjoying definitely the joys of Public Service it took me three days upon starting to work to get the the lights turned on in my office. A variety of of requests were remitted to various departments and send eventually someone came and did in fact turn on all of those lights so this fancy the private firm lawyer coming in demanding lights. I know I'm very high maintenance and the laughter that you hear on the line is also our colleague from the East Coast Hillary young professor with the University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law in Fredericton Hillary. How're you doing today? I'm doing great just great. Thanks and glad to be back recording after a bit of a break yeah. It's nice it's good to be with both of you and we've got a jam packed episode today with a a number of really interesting topics the one topic that is has been blanketing the Canadian airwaves that we will not be discussing is the NC SNC Z. Lavon affair which is a constantly changing by the day with with new developments and it appears that it because of its ubiquitous coverage. We've decided we're going to we're going to dig into some of the more weeds easier topics that perhaps you won't necessarily find that to the same extent on the evening news so the three the three topics. We're going to talk about today. I we're GONNA talk about a recent case from the Supreme Court of Canada that called the Queen and Jarvis witch had to do with the reasonable expectation of privacy and the crime of voyeurism involving a high high school teacher who surreptitiously filmed his female students with a pen camera then we will be talking talking about some issues arising having to do with with sentencing and consecutive versus concurrent sentencing in two very high profile profile cases the e. so-net case involving the mass shooting at a mosque in Quebec and also also the MacArthur sentencing which involved a serial killer who targeted LGBT persons in Toronto then we will get to our third topic which is another recent Supreme Court of Canada the Orphan Well Association case which has to do with who should pay for decommissioned or abandoned oil sites when the company in question goes bankrupt so we will discuss discuss those three cases and let's jump right into it with our first case which is the Jarvis case so quickly Jarvis involved a an accused person who was an English teacher at a high school and as I mentioned he used a camera ah concealed inside a Penn which is simultaneously futuristic sounding but also very like eighties. He's inspector gadget strange so it's just an odd fact but he would use this camera concealed inside a pen to make surreptitious this video recordings of female students while they were engaged in ordinary school related activities in the common areas of school and most of the videos just seem to focus on the their faces an upper bodies and breasts of the female students and of course the students had no idea idea that they were being recorded and they obviously didn't consent to that recording the accused was charged with the offensive voyeurism. which is this section one sixty two sub one C of the Criminal Code and that is an offense that is committed by a person who you have to make a surreptitious observation or visual recording of another person who is in a in circumstances that give rise to a reasonable expectation of privacy see if the observation is done for a sexual purpose so in this case the there was no question that the video recording was done surreptitiously and so the two questions really were were they were the recordings made for a sexual purpose and really there was little doubt in the end when the evidence came out that it was but so what what the case really ends up being about is this question of within the context of this particular offence under the Criminal Code did the the female students in question have a reasonable expectation expectation of privacy and the the this actually surprisingly was a very difficult question to untangle in part because the the the the school space is at issue are semi-public common areas and this is often an issue that arises in in these kinds kinds of cases where people are observed for as or recorded for a sexual purpose in a public or semi public place and the question is did they have a reasonable symbol expectation of privacy and if so what does that even mean there the court of Appeal in this case I think the Court of Appeal of Ontario they split on the question of reasonable expectation of privacy with the majority saying actually no there was no reasonable expectation of privacy held by these girls and the teacher would have been acquitted according according to according to the court of appeal when it went to the Supreme Court of Canada the court split on this quest they all agreed that the a key they allowed the appeal and they found that the Supreme Court of Canada unanimously found that these the girls in this case I did have a reasonable expectation of privacy and therefore they the accused would have been and should be convicted where they differed as between the majority which was written by a Chief Justice Wagner and the concurring opinion which was written by Madam Justice coattail? I was basically on how do you how do you an analyze how should courts analyze the question of whether or not for the purposes of the voyeurism offence offence under the Criminal Code. How do you know if someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy? What the what the majority ended up saying was basically a privacy is not this like all or nothing thing where you you are you have a reasonable expectation of privacy essentially in super private places like your home or your bedroom in particular but once you leave those protected spaces you you have no privacy anymore and and for the purposes of this offense tissue recorded for a sexual purpose no matter what a so instead they came up with this very contextual test which which involved no less than nine factors to decide whether or not in any particular case someone had a reasonable expectation of privacy so the the considerations included included the place where the person was when she was observed or recorded the nature of the conduct whether it was obsolete mere observation observation or recording so it was like just a peeping tom or a recording was there did the person who was wrote the manner in which the observation recording was done the subject matter of the content and any rules or policies that govern the recording in question so like in this particular case there was a school policy that said that he couldn't do what he did with the accused did number seven is the relationship attention between the person who was observed or recorded in the person who did the observing or recording so here you had this relationship kind of a power imbalance between the the teacher and the students and then the purpose for which observation or recording was done here the that was essentially for for sexual reasons which it it should be in any case in which this is this comes up and then finally the personal attributes of the person who was observed or recorded and the court said this list of considerations incinerations is not exhaustive and not every consideration will be relevant in every case the I have sort of essentially to two thoughts and am I am curious to get Hillary and Oliver your thoughts on this case as well but my kind of to to sort of takeaway questions or or comments were number one you look at that list of nine factors none of which is in there may be more? It's not an exhaustive list and not every one of those would will it will even be relevant in every case so you know the the question really comes up is known in criminal laws like the fair warning doctrine and it's the idea that we should all every citizen should be able to know in advance what is criminal criminal and what is not criminal and so a person should be able to know you know when they set about to surreptitiously record people for sexual purposes without their consent they should know whether or not they can do it for a whether or not it's criminal or not and so I mean Hilary's laughing and the reason why I phrased it that way is in a way to show on the one hand. It is a problem to have a criminal final offense that is is is so kind of vague in a way in terms of the analysis so really no no one will know in a particular case unless it's the circumstances exactly like this one in Jarvis. A person will not know if what they're doing is criminal or not until L. A. Judge or even maybe more several judges on a court of Appeal finally decide whether the persons that were observed or recorded had a reasonable expectation of privacy and and there's because this test is something that is essentially kind of like a smell test. It's it's not obvious what the right or wrong answer will be and and and really that's that's and that's part of the critique offered by Madam Justice coattail in her concurring reasons but the reason why I stated at the way I did. which is you know people when they go about surreptitiously recording someone for sexual purposes need to know where the criminal line is? I phrased that way to kind of say you know the fair. The fair warning doctrine is important but at the same time you know I'm not personally to to to to concerned or worried about the extent to which you know peeping toms need to know whether or not they can they can record or observe surreptitiously see for their sexual purpose which is fundamentally like a creepy and pathological activity to engage in to begin with and if the consequence of of vague multi factor test like this is that persons who do engage in or wanted to engage in you know sexually motivated motivated recording of people surreptitiously if they then you know take a very very cautious approach because they never they're worried that what what they're doing might go over the line into the criminal then all the better. That's that's that's fine with me. What do you guys think about that question? I mean is an important Horton aspect of the rule of law that people have to be able to figure out what the law is but that said there are so many provisions of the law criminal and otherwise that do not satisfy that criterion that I am not especially concerned about this one I think you're right that it is a bit of a smell task but there are lots of other provisions of the criminal code and other unlawful acts that depend on a lot of subjective factors on the weighing or balancing variety of different factors. I mean the fact that you can't get your lawyer to tell you how a case is gonNA come out. you know even if you know what you can prove kind of goes to show that that you can never be sure exactly what the law is so you know Oh. I think it's an issue but I guess DOPP. Particular concern hadn't really occurred to me in the context of this case yeah and the the the other the other issue that is something that honestly did not occur to me but then I saw quite a bit of commentary on this question both in the there's an article in the Globe and Mail 'em by was Pam. I'm not sure how to pronounce her. Last name Pam Rick and Moya Hey can head who the title is The Supreme Court's Jarvis ruling delivers a win for privacy but it's a missed opportunity for equality and along the same theme Professor Emma Cunliffe from UBCV Faculty of Law had a series of tweets which essentially said this is a good ruling and and you know the the sort of contextual factors are are all fine but the criticism is that the the court reached an equality protecting result without engaging explicitly in in unequality based analysis and that they what they fail to basically acknowledge was the gendered context of Voyeurism and and the fact that it's it's it's no coincidence that in this case you had a man who was recording surreptitiously for a sexual purpose purpose young women and she pointed to the factum of a leaf and which was was an intervening at the Supreme Court word of Canada which explicitly was an I think I think it's what is the women's legal education and Action Fund. I hope I got that right and in their factum they basically said that the court needs to explicitly acknowledge that this kind of activity and indeed the the the underlying purpose for this provision in the criminal code is to sort of combat. What is in essence a form of gender-based violence and you know I? I don't know I guess the part part of me. Thanks I'm on one hand. I think you know that's all that's all one hundred percent true. I think on the other hand I'm not sure to to what extent it would change the legal test that would be applied and I don't know necessarily what because certainly the offense would also also be made out if it happened to be say a woman that was surreptitiously recording another woman or a man or a man recording a man and so forth it's not it's not explicit in the offense that it has to be a you know a a male on female offense though I think it's probably in the vast majority of cases just by virtue of the fundamental creepy -ness of of men it is going to be that way. Eh So I part of me just wonders like you know to what extent would it have added to or change the analysis to explicitly kind of acknowledge that fact so I'm I'm wondering Hillary you're you're the you're the woman here today so I wonder what do you think about that on behalf of women everywhere. Please speak on there so I don't know I mean I'm like you. I haven't I don't haven't really worked through what difference that would make. I mean I will say yeah. I think one of the other differences between the majority and the concurring opinion related to weather this understanding of reasonable expectation of privacy is it is the same one as in charter section eight analysis right yet whether this is a separate sort of thing that should be treated differently because your prism is different than you know state surveillance and that intuitively makes sense to me but I read a blog by Teresa gasa who has stopped much much more deeply than I have about these issues and and she made an interesting point which is that you know the very the fact that this was even contentious as to whether there's a reasonable expectation of privacy your privacy here goes to show that we have some some real problems and incidentally the this seems to me to reflect a very civilian type approach to privacy where they haven't haven't taken this really stark location-based. If you're in private in public you have no reasonable expectation of privacy in any run approach. I mean I teach a case called. Leo versus Google where this woman is annoying. I know that one st is sitting on her stoop and it's a hot day and so her she sweating in her closer sticking to her and I guess you can see her nipples or whatever but anyway she gets captured by the Google Street view car and is out there on the Internet rob purposes and I think the the Quebec court very rightly said this is an invasion of privacy I mean she was in public but she wasn't like in public for all purposes and in any event so it sounds like the Supreme Court is finally catching up to that more nuance to privacy but sort back to what to resist Gaza said she said that let's see I have it here so the problem with the minority approach may lie in what this case which must have seemed like a no brainer into so many white well the way the Supreme Court that the trial judge struggled with his own perceptions of the young woman in question were putting it out there and so this is a quote from the trial the judge she said it may be that female students mode of attire may attract a debate about appropriate reactions of those who observed such a person leading up to whether there there is unwarranted and disrespectful ogling and so Teresa says while perhaps the Court of appeals focus on the public nature of the school and its hallways is also influenced that's idea that women's bodies in public spaces are there for consumption and that without the majority's contextual approach which directs assist to consider lots of factors that the courts below are going to just keep screwing this often behaving in really sexist ways so I thought that was interesting argument in favor of this sort of section eight contextual approach in that you need it to drag the judicial dinosaurs kicking and screaming out of this view that that you know she was asking for it basically to me. I struggled a little bit with whether privacy really is is what is the heart of the matter and if the the statute needs a rethinking because when you look at that that list of doctors things like like power imbalance. I don't really know how being on the wrong side of a power imbalance Alan suggests you have a higher expectation of privacy but it certainly seems relevant to the moral blame worthiness of the conduct. We're talking about right. I wonder in a way if you know this is a huge problem that I think that the scope of how much this happens. I'm sure if we found out would blow people's minds there are creepy dudes everywhere and they all have cameras now. Every single creepy dude has a camera with him at all all times and it's really easy to Sarah Tisch Asli take a picture so you know I agree that which this is happening I think is a huge huge problem. It's a huge risk for women and it's a huge perpetuation of the very problems that leaf was outlining and I don't know if keeping it tied to a reflex patient at privacy is where the best way to get at discouraging this type of conduct which to me is about dominance not privacy quite so much. How would you do it? I don't know but I mean I think what you said is syrup. Tissues see recording people for a sexual purpose. You said it should be enough. Is that not enough right. It does make you wonder what it is right. It's a it's a good question. I guess what it does is it almost makes the if someone is being recorded for for a sexual purpose in in a circumstance where it's they have no reasonable expectation of privacy than it shouldn't be criminal is almost like a dream version of that so you're in a strip club. I'm your take in your recording. I mean people have obviously consented to be reviewed in certain ways but not to be recorded and so does it matter the there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in that circumstance. She thinks he that would be that would be covered by another subsection of that particular provision I think it's section one sixty two so this case was under section one sixty two sub one sub sea but there's a subway and a sub be and some say is if there's someone so they are they're still has to be a reasonable expectation of privacy but if it is in a place in which a person can be reasonably expected to be nude to expose his or her genital organs or anal regions or breasts or to be engaged aged in explicit sexual activity and be is sort of similar to that so I think the question is I guess you're in that area. It's not so like in the doctor's office well. You definitely have a reasonable expectation of privacy there right so that's what I was just wondering what the what the I yeah I didn't understand what the consequence of being in a place where you would expect to see that's interesting so so here's okay okay so you still would need to have a reasonable expectation of privacy or the victim would in all of these instances but you don't have it doesn't have to be done for a sexual sexual purpose if it is in a place where one would customarily see naked people or people engaged in sexual activity so in the I I guess it would be like if someone's set up a security camera I suppose in a strip club they could be they could trigger the voyeurism offense you because they're not doing it for a sexual purpose but and then the question would be is there a reasonable expectation of privacy a strip club and then you'd have to go through that whole analysis because I don't know but we were imagining Sir we're trying to figure out whether you need a reasonable expectation of privacy so that might be an example where it makes a difference yeah. I mean that would be perhaps a hard case but I I don't know because the thing is the reasonable expectation of privacy really has to do. It's an incomplete concept because because it's reasonable expectation of privacy to be free from what is always the question so it's like is there reasonable expectation of privacy to be free the from surface recordings for a sexual purpose or any recordings at all you know and that's the question is ultimately normative Tiv- and and it's one of those ones that reasonable people will disagree on and so it's really hard to know an advance what the right answer is ever going to be and and that's why I think Jarvis's Jeff Ford right because it moves US quite a bit further fraum. You're in public so you have no reasonable expectation of privacy yeah definitely yeah cool so so just in the interest of time maybe will. Let's wrap up Jarvis and thank you Sir Thank Hugh that's the segment Gong so moving onto our second topic I and that is the topic of the sentencing issues that arose from these two very high profile sentencing decisions that we had in Canada recently one was the the be so net sentencing and the other was the MacArthur sentencing and a lot of people were sort of taken aback act by the fact that in both cases people convicted of you know among the most heinous crimes that we know of were given sentences where they they there was the possibility that in their lifetimes they could get parole they they could have been given consecutive sentences where it would have been twenty five to life times for every one of their victims which would mean they would never be able to get out of jail but but in both cases a serial killer in in Toronto and a mass shooter in in Quebec were were both given concurrent sentences which meant that in theory both could one day be free so hillary you were you were thinking about this issue and these these cases and and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on on how how you've been thinking about them. Yeah I found it really interesting. I mean you've got these two sentences that were that were handed down within in a week or two of each other as you mentioned you've got Bruce Macarthur and he's the serial killer who was murdering gay men in in in Toronto he killed eight men and when he was arrested the was another one in his in his home presumably the the future ninth victim and and he had dismembered these men he had prayed on their vulnerability. I mean really horrific horrific crimes uh-huh and exams descend net who opened fire in a mosque and Quebec and killed six men and seriously injured five more I mean there's no doubt that these are horrible. Murders that are worthy of a significant sentences and of course they were both sentenced to life imprisonment which is an automatic sentence for these offensives the issue that were interested in here is the issue of a parole eligibility. The automatic attic sentence for murder is life imprisonment with no eligibility parole for twenty five years and until really very recently multiple sentences sentences for multiple murders could not be consecutive so it was not possible to add and those twenty five year parole ineligibility onto each other the was just twenty five year rural ineligibility and then in two thousand eleven as part of Stephen Burs at a tough on crime agenda The was a change to the Criminal Code of Canada which allowed those parole eligibility periods to be stacked onto each other so the sentences could be consecutive rather than concurrent so this only something we've had for not even eight eight years in our criminal code and it reflects a very sort of American as opposed to British approach to sentencing the Brits don't really do this us and the Americans as people who watch a lot of television US television out they may be surprised to know that we haven't always done this but it's it's rather an American thing okay so MacArthur was sentenced to know to life in prison with no parole for twenty five years and as I said he'd killed eight people so in theory I suppose he could have had two hundred years of parole ineligibility and he's a I think he's in his sixties so his twenty-five years takes him into his nineties. I believe Visa Nets is a young man and interestingly family he was given life with no parole eligibility for forty years. Now you may note that that is not a multiple of twenty five life the way that the judge his name is you each. Ot It's always fun to pronounce I know I I love file. I love French names that you know ostensibly have consonants in them but don't actually you. That's that's all value anyway so just as you justify this sentence of indecision of more than twelve hundred hundred paragraphs I might add I was going to read the thing and then I realized it was twelve hundred Eric so anyway the way he justified this was to find the the provisions of the Criminal Code that required these twenty five year periods of parole ineligibility unconstitutional violation of section twelve of the a charter which prohibits cruel and unusual punishment and so I think both the Macarthur decision the macarthur sentence and the Senate sentence reflect lacked the view on the part of judges that just because someone has done something terrible doesn't mean that you pile along the concurrent sentences so in theory as you said rob up decent at MacArthur could be eligible for parole within their lifetimes. Let us be clear. This does not mean they will ever be paroled. I think macarthur in particular is unlikely to ever be paroled. Be Sonnets it's harder to say but the reason I was interested in this issue is because ever went nuts when they only got when they only we got life in prison with twenty five or forty years and in particular people interpreted this as a signal by the courts dot on the lives of gay men and the lives of Muslim people were worth less than the lives of of like Hetero white people which I thought was interesting right because it suggests that the only goal the only purpose of sentencing is denunciation or is some sort of reflection palpable the crimes are and that's not the case so there couple of issues here one. Is You know whether the sentences were too lenient enter whether they weren't and whether given the principles of sentencing appropriate and the other is whether it's actually unconstitutional due to have these back to back periods of parole ineligibility such that someone you might never be eligible for parole and I think that's a really interesting question to I'll just say re flee. I don't think that I mean I think these guys are likely to spend the rest of their lives in jail especially MacArthur and I don't really care that much about the symbolism of you know the the the the concurrent sentences send. It I'm more of a pragmatic practical person he's not to be rehabilitated. He is dangerous. He won't get out and that's you know dead wants to spend money doesn't have to be dead twice or fifty years or one hundred years out. Be Sanada Annette. I think a little more interesting right whether he deserves a chance at rehabilitation a chance for parole in his he'll be sixty seven when he's the eligible for parole. I don't have a problem with that right. I mean I think he will likely be a vastly different person than than he is now and given that are sentencing principles are not just about punishment and they should never be about vengeance. They're also about rehabilitation deterrence and other things things I think to me that's okay the constitutional issue. I don't know I'm definitely not an expert. GRUDEN cruel and unusual punishment section twelve strikes me as a little bit of a stretch that that would constitute will unusual punishment but I guess the idea that tonight tonight any hope at all is cruel. I've seen some people refer to it as a death sentence the incarceration that otherwise known as life imprisonment yeah well that's exactly right so that was I wasn't entirely convinced by that but the idea that you do not all hope is cruel and unusual. You know I mean there are crimes that are so horrible that no-one should have any reasonable expectation speaking of reasonable expectations of ever. We're getting out at I don't know I don't know I'm I'm. I'm open to having my My opinion changed about this and to hearing from people people who know more than I do but it's not obviously cruel unusual to me well. I mean just speaking for myself. when when you sort of we were talking about this topic beforehand and the the idea of redemption and the case that sort of jumped into my mind is the the case of of Stan Tuckey Williams. I don't know if you guys know about him. He was essentially the founder of the crips gang in in in the states and was convicted of a senselessly killing a number of people during a robbery I think of convenience store and in in the early eighties and then over the the decades of his incarceration he he he changed dramatically he engaged in this you know appear to have this sort of transformation and redemption and became this this this this anti-violence anti-gang violence in particular figure he wrote nine books warning children and teenagers about the dangers offers of gang life. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize five times and for the Nobel Prize for literature once in nineteen ninety-three he videotaped a message at San Quentin prison where he was housed that was shown to four hundred gang members and he helped broker and actual truce between the rival crips and bloods gangs during the first game ever gang summit in Los Angeles so he you know he did a a ton of stuff to like actually not just you know now say that he was anti-violence potentially take steps that even from prison he was able to try and reduce the very kind of violence is that he himself had engaged in and promoted and he was sentenced to death and he pled for clemency from then then Governor Schwarzenegger in two thousand and five and Schwarzenegger denied the plea for clemency in part relying lying on the fact that that Tuckey Williams still he he's still denied that he was guilty of the offence for which he had been convicted and Oh you know Schwarzenegger essentially wasn't sure whether or not all of this stuff that he was doing was essentially just for show was it true was a true redemption and so he did did it was he was executed in two thousand and five and it's one of those and I think there was a movie I think Jamie Foxx may have played him in in the movie and you know it's one of those. It's the case that you think of in my mind of you know showing that that change change from the most vials you know a violent person who's convicted of the worst kind of offense can and actually happen and so doesn't that mean that there must be some way for such a person to have a chance to get out and and it speaks to the cases like the ones we're talking about probably be so net just because of his his a youthful age and you know he's got a long life in in theory ahead of him as far as we know and and so that means a long time in which he might change and become a different in person but on the other hand I mean I I mean aside from the death penalty. We're just talking here about you. Know Pushing off the possibility of parole you know it seems to me that there ought to be some place some mechanism through which true rehabilitation and redemption after a very lengthy sentence could actually result in some kind of release but but you know the question is you you know how would you structure it. I mean I suppose just the possibility of parole might be enough and then it would be up to the Parole Board to assess whether or not the change was was real yeah. I don't know it's it's a tough one. That's this is a this is a real difficult question. You seem to be placing a lot of weight on rehabilitation which you know I idea that we need to inquire into whether rehabilitation's possible but I think the fact that it's possible doesn't answer the question fully right. The question still has to be answered. How much weight should we give to the fact that someone may be able to contribute whether inside or outside prison I guess in this case would have to be outside to make a difference French? So how much weight do you give to that as opposed to the goals of retribution deterrence you know etcetera and also protecting having the public from a possibly dangerous person right exactly so I think it's right to inquire as to whether he he could be rehabilitated sated and I think the question about whether someone's life can have any good purpose is kind of different right. I I have a hard time imagining that anyone's life is such that no good could ever come of it. I think you need to focus on particularly in the Canadian context. We're talking about parole the ability to be rehabilitated such that they can you know contribute outside of prison and so that's obviously an important consideration but it seems to me that even if you answered that question yes it doesn't necessarily mean that someone should the poor old or should have the opportunity for parole run to me. There's a number of different questions that sort of our balled up in this and one is what do we do with our worst offenders vendors and the other one is as question of consecutive versus concurrent sentencing and in the most extreme cases. It's hard to have too much of a problem with these guys getting extreme long parole ineligibility at least one of these guys but in the general context context that notion of like is still ten cars. You'LL DO two years ten times and all of a sudden car theft run becomes twenty years in jail has some intuitive logic but is fundamentally unjust way to punish people that I think is is not befitting of the crimes so I do think that we have to be careful as Canadians and falling down that path I it can seem okay in the most extreme circumstances but can lead to horrible rable results in a more run of the mill crimes and I do wonder with respect to what do you do with these people who have such such such atrocious acts that they've been convicted of but another thing to think about is when twenty five forty years from now. What kind of supervision are we going to be able to do? You know what's IT GONNA look like in forty years with respect to electronic surveillance for instance. I would imagine that would probably probably be at a stage where if the state wanted to know where you were. They know where you are every single second of every single day. There's not much you can do about it so the idea of kind of we're going to make a decision right now once in fraud that's going to cut off any possibility for extremely long time where it may be that forty years from now our jail system looks credibly. It'll be different and almost no one's in jail because you don't really need to put people in jail anymore because you can there the house arrest etc to a point where it's so secure are and so effective that it you know ends up being accepted by society as a as a better alternative so it just it's it does seem to me to be a bit bit odd to sort of forecast and also I always have a problem with this. when years of people's lives is are treated as just a metric to describe how bad the thing they did. Is You know it's not really about those extra fifteen years. It's about having a message that this person is more blameworthy than the twenty five year person's gotTa give some higher number and to me that that seems seems like a ration on somewhat dangerous way to do sentencing the sentence ought to be crafted based on you know what punishment is needed in this circumstance for this person for this offense in order to accomplish those goals including denunciation deterrence etcetera etcetera but it ought not to be just a comparative exercise that says well. It's worse than that one so it's got to be higher it needs to be personalized and appropriate and all the circumstances yeah but aren't you the raving Leftie who wanted prisoners for food we search good weekend trips to to. I Dunno Disneyland. Wherever ever Yeah Disneyland is no I do? I do believe that prison conditions ought to be as nice as we can realistically make them in the idea of having having a added bonus terrible incarceration for your next party. Your punishment is is not really necessary that we should should. We should have nice prisons. We'd have a better society if we did. I'm not saying that they should be you know the luxury resorts Maybe not Disneyland but you know six flags. Maybe well the luxury that we don't have at the moment. Is Your your presence for too much longer because we know you have to run. Thank you so we will we will ring the segment bell because Oliver's got to go run and pick up kids yeah for just one but I do. I'm so so yes maybe I'll jump into the case. I wanted to talk about today. Which is orphan wells decision from didn't he direct citizen Kane? Yeah that's who oh man. It would be good if it was so red water not Rosebud energy got got partitioned into receivership so this is a case that's about liability to clean up abandoned oil and gas ask swells and who ought to pay if indeed the company that owns the wells goes into bankruptcy process so should the company be forced to pay before its creditors get paid or should the obligation to remediate the wells be he treated like any other unsecured liability assuming there wasn't some security already on there for that for that interest and and therefore were you know unless there's a dividend leftover at the end of the bankruptcy. You'RE GONNA get nothing in the public are going to pay for it. If this sounds familiar a was the subject Deva fairly recent Supreme Court candidates Asian from twenty twelve called Agitation bowater and so I was really surprised that this case ace went to the Supreme Court of Canada at all because the interaction of environmental remediation and bankruptcy or C. C. Aa the companies creditors arrangement act restructuring was so recently discussed by the Supreme Court of Canada so broadly what happened happen here's his company had relatively small oil and Gas Company had about one hundred twenty seven properties and it goes into a receivership I leading due to its bankruptcy and the receiver says well look a hundred of these are entirely value lists. There's only about twenty that makes any sense to keep so I'm just gonNA renounce or disclaim my interest in those other wells good luck for all y'all dealing with them but that is not something that I'm concern myself with. I'M GONNA aim to only maximize the value can get for the creditors out of these wells leaving aside sort the the moral issue of abandoning this you know the Cesspool stew whoever will clean them up that is what a receiver trustee is supposed post to do right. They're supposed to maximize the value that can be gotten out of a distressed company or individual and bankruptcy in order to ensure the creditors get paid as as much as possible so in Alberta though they the law said the regulator can order receiver or trustee to remediate the eight because they're currently the person who has the de facto and legal possession of those those assets so just like anybody else they can say hey buddy urine control of that that that will go clean it up so they make that order and the receiver and then the trustee in bankruptcy because receiver it became the trustee says we'll look attitude. Bowater Supreme Court at Canada said that no these are these kind of obligations are compromisable in bankruptcy that these are effectively monetary amounts that are owned by the company they are unsecured creditors as if it's going to cost ten million bucks to clean up these wells that's ten million bucks that will will get to after all the secured creditors are are taken can care of and the Bird Accord Queen's bench says yeah that's what abitibi-price water says the British Court of Appeal agrees though with Justice Sheila Martin dissenting thing of course he's now on the Supreme Court of Canada so US record a candidate sat sobbing because of course Justice Martin did not take part in this but so so that's the tension you know what do you do with these orphan wells. Do you clean them up. Do you give them effectively a super priority over all other creditors editors and that could be employees that could be you know the other kind of sympathetic obligations that a company is is or you say look you made a mass. You have to clean it up. Go clean and cleaning it up. You don't get to cut a checks to all your various people who invested in your failed venture before cleaning up your mess you could almost I think think of it as a sort of proceeds of regulatory dilatory crime type type issue you don't you haven't made that money. You're considering giving out to the various creditors until you've you've complied with the legal obligations. It took to make that money including cleaning up that that mass that they've left so you have this tension attention it was the same tension that was at issue advocacy bowater and the spring quarter cannon in that case said look you have three things we gotta find that there it was a creditor who is owed a debt or obligation that it has to have been incurred before the person became bankrupt and you must be able to attach a monetary value to that debt and in the water case very similar forestry company had left they left contaminated sites the court looked at it and said okay well the the government's creditor they dat the liability was incurred before he went into bankruptcy and we can estimate how much it will cost the cleanest things up so ABC. You have a nice test in its met in this case Abbott Bowater remediation obligations are debts compromisable in bankruptcy bankruptcy just like any other obligation at they have and secured creditors are going to get paid out. I so in this case a spring quarter Canada says no we're not gonNA follow the advocacy bowater result and in fact act. We're going to find that in this case. The Alberta regulator was not even a creditor that creditor in the ordinary sense you wouldn't think of the regulator as being a creditor but in the bankruptcy sense that's usually read very broadly as anybody who can show that there's an obligation from the bankrupt to that person that can be put into monetary terms. You try to make a creditor because you want to deal with all claims at the same time within the bankruptcy but the court said in this case will environmental regulatory bodies can be creditors in respect of non monetary obligations in the in the Timmy border case but in the orphan wells case the court says No. They're not a creditor they say the they regulator acted in the public interest and for the public good and issuing these orders and is therefore Nada creditor so this was not part of the Aba Tibi bowater test at all but the court said the other side of things well. Is that really a creditor when the government tells you to clean something up. Does that really creditor a relationship. The Supreme Court candidate says no but what was interesting about this case was the descent and again it's similar the players who had just as she just wagner for the majority and Raba give you three guesses who wrote the dissent. I'm GONNA guess that this judge is names rhymes with Flo Tei but she was joined by Justice Mall Davor who had been in the majority on Abba Tibi bowater and they say hold on so you just through this test out the window. This is not at all with the test was from Abbott's heavy bowater and you didn't even have the you know the decency to tell us that that was what you were doing. There's no acknowledgement in the majority tests in the majority judgment that they had in fact really departed hard from this they instead appointed to the fact that in Abitur bowater there was an outstanding Nafta claim there've been expropriation and there is some suggestion Ashton in the lower court judgment that there was a monetary desire from Newfoundland that was really driving them but the the sense has hold on we didn't rely on that at all at the Supreme Court of Canada level we completely that that was not a relevant fact in the analysis of which justice a small David who's concurring with me was in the majority and so they say you know what you've done. Is You have just completely overruled that test. You introduced a new definition of creditor which exempts regulators acting in the public interest and if you think about it that's a big deal right for the the bankruptcy system it effectively will give regulators a super priority in bankruptcy over other creditors if they can say a in the public interest. I need to clean this up on as you. This need to ask the set and the other outstanding things that you ought to have done you haven't done you gotta do them. Before before you can have any dividend going out to your creditors now. I'm not saying that I disagree with that and in fact I strongly disagreed with the Aba Tibi bowater decision decision and I'm happy with the result here you know based on my views as to what sort of priorities ought to be given to these types of things but the descent is right this is absolutely overruling the Abbotabad water approach and introducing a new you test that will have significant ramifications for the law of insolvency and so it does raise these questions of society's changing and our views of what corporations ought to be able to do to our environment is changing our morals are changing in on the last ten years or less than ten years ago and so what is the court to do in these situations with these changing times I think not being handcuffed to precedent and and being willing to change great the same time you had a lot of people invest a lot of money on the predictability of the abitibi-price water results. It's less than ten years ago. Can you really just throw it out so I was you know curious to hear you say that they were throwing it out right. The majority said that they were applying abitibi-price applying. They introduced this new question of you're you're not a creditor if you're regulator acting in the public interest which was not part of the tippy bowater test and dramatically changes ages that really and I think frankly if that had been the law when Abbot water was decided Abitur plotter would have gone the other way because it newfoundland was a regulator acting in the public interest telling these people to clean up their mess. It was the same facts there is this Nafta dispute in the background but the Supreme Court said that that was irrelevant even just as mclachlan's dissenting reasons you know without pointing out the majority relying on it which they didn't they didn't rely on that NAFTA part to any substantive effect and she said yeah the trial judge was off on this lark with this crazy thing had nothing to do with anything and so the the the majority authorities in the in the in this case the orphan wells case seems to kind of have dug deep into the advocacy record to find some fact they hang their hat on that means Abadi Budweiser is now an absolute one off the legal issue. Is You know what's the priority of remediation in a situation where the government has expropriated created assets and isn't a Nafta fight with the company like that's the time that that cases can be relevant anymore so it say it is you you know I think one of those cases where the honest thing would have been to say yes sorry about that guys. we made a mistake year. We ought to have not set out such such a stringent tests that was gonna make basically all remediation obligations debts compromisable in bankruptcy and that's why the you know the scent says if you you did this without saying you're doing it and you can't do that. And of course you know having Justice Moldavia joined that sent makes it all that much more powerful because he was on the majority but then two judges who were in the majority in Aba tippy bowater are in the majority here so it also raises the question of what does it mean to sign onto judgment meant you know do they have. Do you almost have an obligation to explain no. This wasn't what we signed onto the defense has it wrong. You know we always considered this or do you not maybe don't the judgment says what it says and you can say something later without having to explain yourself. I don't know what do you. I think the thing that I found interesting about this was it seems like what the court is. Implicitly doing as is a side from the the the the the changing but not really or you know changing the law without saying that that's what you're doing if you think about the issue of like what what to do with these abandoned oil wells you know there was it was a failure of regulation that led to this because what should have happened is is that if a company is granted a license to a to extract oil from the ground there it should have to pay upfront into either fund or or set aside into some special account the money that would be necessary to clean it up in the event that the company goes bankrupt so the problem by making them secured creditors making the government secured creditors these abandoned wells suppose you could characterize. Is it that way yeah I mean it sort of reminds me of there's this thing called the the ship source oil pollution fund and dealt with a case involving that a over a decade ago with the DOJ the OJ and it's this fund where there forever a liter of oil that tanker Kerry's the company that carries it has to pay a certain number of pennies into this giant fund the ship source oil pollution fund and then what happens is if any person cleans is up an oil spill whether they are caused it or not are they just sort of showed up in and we're good Samaritans and they can go to this fund as an insurance and get paid back for any of their expenses and doing so and and so what it does is it creates a mechanism to ensure that that oil spills get cleaned up. There's money for that accumulated and it and it's money that is paid for by the very entities that profit from the carrying of that oil and the creation one of that risk of oil spills so it seems to me kind of similar that like there should be some kind of mechanism upfront that that makes sure that the money is already ready. They're waiting and if the company goes bankrupt that's fine because there's a there's a a an insurance fund ready to go and apparently there has has been regulatory there have been regulatory changes across the country heading in that direction and perhaps a perverse consequence of this decision. Is that maybe that kind of regulatory momentum might be slowed down because now the government can swoop in bankruptcy and scoop up the remaining monies of the company to pay for you know the the abandonment costs yeah. That's really interesting. I mean there is something something to that effect in this scheme but it's not nearly that strong and the companies I think basically it to maintain a certain amount of liquidity set aside but I don't think they have to pay eight and that's my understanding. If I'm wrong I apologize but there is some scheme but they talk about it in one of the decisions one of the commentaries I read about it that there is this idea of sort sort of the Alberto difference that we're going to really encourage this kind of development and so we're not going to require extensive mighty set aside and it does sort of feel to me a little bit like changing the goalposts for if you made a decision as a society that we're going to encourage this type of development and we're going to do that by not having a very strict standards to ensure you clean things up. I'm like well. Maybe then you as a society decided that this was something that you were going to do if it was gonna be clean it all it was going to be a public expenditure to in order to support the development of the industry. If that was a decision that you made so I mean it's interesting you say the government this may slow the momentum but what's interesting here here too is that of course this is just a statute and so the bankruptcy and insolvency act could be amended in either way either to make it more clear that environmental mental claims have a priority or to say no these are claims compromisable in bankruptcy if they said that explicitly then you would have paramount's. That's the argument that would win the day the bankruptcy insolvency gets to override provincial law and that's what I was. That's what I was Gonna say that it's not only failure regulation relation but just a failure of the legislative drafters on on I guess as you say that can be redressed and legislatures can do what they want based on a proper Democratic Arctic discussion of the issues of how to balance things like promoting industry cetera versus you know who should bear the cost of pollution. I think that really should be legislative decision rather than come down to some interpretation of what counts as a creditor I that's really well put and you. I would have expected frankly that the Abitur bowater case would have resulted in a response from parliament in order to strengthen the environmental protections actions. It didn't add Lotta time to do so so I'll be interested to see if this is it just pure inertia that one went one way. We did nothing the other the decision goes another way parliament still will do nothing or was that a signal that parliament was in fact happy with the ABA tip water outcome find out we shall find out and your is it your son. You're going to pick up your sign. We'll find out if his daddy loves him spoiler alert theory and now for our regularly scheduled segment obiter dicta in which we each got to make a non-binding recommendation that may or may not to be legal in nature so what is your odor for this week Oliver Yeah thanks rob on so my obiter is just reminisces of reminisces. That's not a word senses remnants. That's memories memories of a trip that I just got back from where I went down to Los Angeles to visit my mother-in-law amazing time and at some just the hilarious lock in that we went to Palm Springs we took mirrors mom and her sister and my brother-in-law in law we all met I went to Palm Springs together and the Great State at the ace hotel went to Joshua Joshua Tree National Park and then the day we about to leave was the third rainiest day in Palm Springs history. The absolute recorded history I suppose but of the days that I could have gone there. Were two that were worse but every other day the last two hundred years has been better but but in a way it was it was so special to see that being who who gets to see the desert you know flooded and rain for one and also we had an insane sort of race against road closures to get get out of Palm Springs. There's seven roads out of palm springs and we were on our seventh road that we tried her palm springs the other six having you've been closed either moments before we got there or a few minutes before we got there but basically every time to to a road there is a fresh police siren saying say nope it's flooded turnaround. Go back the other way and so is one of those things where it's all very white-knuckle early when you're doing it but afterwards words of Santa this fun little vacation adventure. NFL -LICA- like a action movie or something trying to escape Palm Springs and everything everything was okay okay and I got I usually do the driving with my family but we had showed up at the airport and the person they're penteker plays said Ed first off happy birthday to birthday next week also see your driver's license expires next week the car so I was the the navigator for this Palm Springs Ocean adventure to to get out of town and coming up with road after road that was blocked so it was a an adventure and lots of fun in retrospect in the in the in the moment stress stress around but you know ah things things happen and you get through it and I'd I'd a lovely trip to California awesome. That's a good one sounds like fun. Yeah I like Palm. Springs have been there a few times as well and the Joshua Tree Park is amazing. It's unbelievable like it's such a cool place and have been our concern. I heard about all the damage that have been done Joshua Tree Park during the government shutdown and I'm sure it was extensive but it wasn't noticeable to the untrained eye at least the places I went into which was a relief because I kind of vision of there being very obvious devastation yeah so hillary. What is your orbiter for this week so quite often my obiter come from twitter and this week is no exception? I found this amazing tweet that it is GonNa Change my computer using life so I'll just read the tweet it says hello. My name is Graham I have a PhD in computing and I'm a senior accessibility accessibility consultant but when I wanted type zone tq like e with the little accent on a windows laptop I go to beyonce as Wikipedia via page and copies letter from there and then just in a subsequent tweet he says if you use a Mac if you just hold down the letter like an e if you just push the Iki and hold it down for a second all of these accent options pop above and I have been using a Mac or as I can remember I know right. This is amazing. Try that right now. I didn't believe it. I tried it. I'm like no if that were sure I would have discovered by accident accidentally holding down the key look at that isn't that amazing seven different forms of e and so easy easy. What what's The e with a dot on top one dot one dot number dots is the timeout but I don't know but one doc hold on now? I've got a there's a line across the top that I also. I'm not sure would it means okay so the one is excellent to His Excellency aw iggy threes on silk flags than the fours the with the Tacoma and I don't know whether five supposed to be as some sort of Tilda. It's looks like a straight line but maybe it's a Tilda hold on. I'M GONNA pick five and see if it's now. It's a straight line. It's it's like the way that you indicate. It's like The long pronounciation of Avowal I think but yeah dot EH D- Under the sedillo yeah exactly the last one Sedillo so opted I should have had I been better prepared for my obiter convict them. I would have looked up numbers five and six the the line in the DOT. I wonder whether there I don't know anyway but so this is this is going to change and my life like how did I never know this before you wouldn't you think that so I've been using a MAC since at least at least two thousand and two I oh I think before that okay so museum macaroni lifetime. Would you not think that I would have accidentally held down an easy or a you're an eye for just a fraction of a a second too long no now. I don't know how whether this functionality goes back that far but I am amazed. It's really cool also look at that if you do it on an oh you get ah eight different ones. There's so much funds man. You're cool. This is a tremendous obiter her though does have a Tilda the eight yes so it's just so the line is definitely not the Tilda because for oh the the seventh option option is aligned and the eighth option is children right possible that there are no languages that have a tilda on the e this. I don't know you're the you're you're the PhD in linguistics yeah so that may be it because when you think of till does she think of them on as and OS. Maybe there aren't any unease but but anyway we go but anyways I figured if one listener had not heard that little chip and learned it that will be worthwhile but you have already been that one person so now it doesn't matter if anyone else I'm sure that many many people will be blown away by that factoid. That's a really cool. That's it's awesome. The bad news is that for windows that doesn't work went well too bad windows people so so I think on that note we should wrap it up and thank all of our listeners who are still with us listening and thank everyone for tuning Dan and if you are so inclined please go ahead and review the show on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell your friends tell your enemies. He's all about the show tell people to whom you're indifferent about the show and we look forward to hearing from you all soon so from Oliver Poli holy blank who is now collecting his child from School Hillary Young and me Robert Downey we will thank you and talk

Supreme Court Canada Court of Appeal Bruce Macarthur Jarvis Hillary Quebec US Madam Justice coattail Toronto University of New Brunswick Fa Justice Wagner Parole Board Oliver SNC Z. Lavon professor Hilary tom Nafta Robert Danny
Auschwitz survivor Edith Grosman

The Current

20:53 min | 6 months ago

Auschwitz survivor Edith Grosman

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis this season on uncover. Pc See this is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast this is a CBC podcast Hi I'm Matt Galloway. This is a podcast from the January twenty seventh edition of the current From whatever country you come of the think all you can so that your pilgrimage vein is not in vain with Ed For you and your children the ashes of outfits x o dictatorship of hatred. Stay since you own will never grow a new seat. Need that tomorrow not offen- a reading by Auschwitz survivor. Roman Kent Today Marks Marks the anniversary of the end of one of the darkest periods in human history. Seventy five years ago Soviet soldiers liberated the Auschwitz death. Camp Edith Grossman was seventeen. Seventeen years old when she and her sister Laya arrived at Auschwitz from Slovakia part of the first official transport of Jews to that Camp Edith is now ninety eighty five and lives in Toronto and joins me in studio. Her story is part of a new book called nine nine nine. The extraordinary young women of the first official Jewish transport two outfits the author. Heather mcadam joins us from New York City. Good Morning Good Morning Good Morning. Good Day Edith. A wonder if you could start by telling me about what life was like in the town that you lived in Slovakia when the government the Nazi back into powder in fifty and so from March nineteen thirteen nine Slovak state and independent state route our our laws against the Jews. These Indian newspaper our lows against the Jews I've streaked and then Jerem German sprout proud of it you know and the president will say we'll say priest doctor diesel a Catholic priest in signed everything so so he'd begun the juice juice could have or the goal or they have to give up they could have domesticated animal Matica. Don't they don't will. They could leave on the main. The main steady you know heather white in you've written about this. Why did the government at the time decide to send those Jewish girls and women into Nazi Germany? Well it's it is a big mystery Why would you pick teenage girls to go literally literally demolition buildings? That was the idea that they were going to build The new homes where the Jews were going to be rehome that was the euphemism. Awesome for death That the Slovak Republic used or the Slovaks use sorry There's no actual paperwork no documentation stating why they would use young women however Doctor Pavel Meshed An and other historians around this history and myself included. You know there's a couple of reasons that we come up with one is if you want to destroy race of people you attack. Young Women Because they are your next generation. They're they're going to carry the next generation and women are nurtures of culture. The other thing is that parents were more likely to give up their daughters than their sons and so You know the end and they were lied to so Edith's parents and all of the parents they were told the girls were going to work in a factory for three months and Slovakia was the largest manufacturer of army boots and so everybody thought. Oh It'd be a shoe. Factory may be Munitions Factory They'll go away for three months. Then they'll come home. They had no idea that they were going to Auschwitz and it was just a blatant lie in in order to get parents to let their daughters go which of course A few months later. They President T.. So the Catholic priest said well. Oh who wants to join your daughters and everybody said yeah so I tell you something. My Mother didn't want to let us go specialty. Did Not because of me she. She looked at me. I was the smallest in the family. You know leverage store and the and the ad a human being educated and Dole and beautiful and and so my mother sent layout you go you will go to Hungary and my father author sit. I don't let my kindle keep kids away from me I am the father. I am responsible for the kids. and My mother said about Luke d'oro so he said it's a bad law but we have to respect it and you know my father died v. so to believe that layer is dead. He couldn't catch himself DETI. He let he's that die. He you know heather. What do we know about how the parents of these girls reacted when they learned that that that their daughters weren't Being sent to work in some sort of shoe factory that they're being sent they didn't find out until they arrived in Auschwitz and part of you know and they were on their way eight of the gas chambers Part of the story You know this is a multiple narrative. So Edith story forms at a narrative spine for the book but I have loads of free search of other families survivors. Non Non survivors and one of the stories is the Hartman family which is just heartbreaking. And there's postcards that go back and forth forth between the family and Slovakia and and Cousin of hartman daughters and the you know the postcards they they have no idea they just don't understand that keeps saying. Why haven't we heard from MEG? Duska Newton see and and and of course the postcards coming back from Birkenau. Now are coded and they're coded so well that the family can't tell that those girls are already dead and it goes on for two years and and it's just heartbreaking so parents just they didn't find out edith's father Emmanuel Friedman sent somebody who worked in his. His store are two outfits to try and free the girls who was a gentile and he went with their paperwork to try and free them. I you know and went up to the gate and said I'm here to take the Maya Friedman home and the SS were like well. What's their number and of course he's like a number and he looks around? I mean he's his life is threatened he looks around and he sees crazy women who are half naked wearing Russian men's uniforms barefoot in field in in mud. This was one of the work details. They were spreading manure with their bare hands and he thought that Auschwitz was an insane asylum and he left and he went back to Slovakia and he said to Emanuel Freedman. Your daughters aren't there. I don't know where they are and of course they were there. How do you take down criminal network doc hidden in the shadows? I tell them that. I know that they're the ones who are running the largest child abuse website on the dark nets the journalists working to expose the darkest corners of the Internet. That's your playroom for that's your baby's clothes. That's my house. The police who hunt down online predators the environment that they're using no we didn't we didn't make it. They made hunting warhead subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts there were nine hundred ninety nine women girls on that train? Why I'm not a thousand heather? Well that's a really interesting question and The I I believe. Hitler was very heinrich. Taylor was very very into astrology and hired a historic astrologer to look into the number as well as the astrological dates and everything thing matches. I mean the date of the announcement is is trying with Hitler's birthday Hitler's name if you do the numerology of it his his Heinrich Leopold Himmler is a nine nine nine his birth year and date equal nine. And you now they they believed some weird stuff and I truly believe that That it was planned as a way of sort of stacking the deck would. What do you remember Edith about about that transport tell me about the train to Auschwitz? I don't delighting. We've had about fifty in one in Van Wagner we're GonNa and Van V. So then we heard two closer to close it from outside so that it's not go and then we fell that it's not good and V. Yongin have an older sister. Where crank would do you think the V. Relieve relieve will believe? What will they do we south? Who will who will take us where we going so diverse? I panic converse. Really panic you know. be or stay at their life because the late transported came from Belgium or from whole Antonio taught. I don't know a lot of debt people already in the India Today when when you arrived at Auschwitz what you remember seeing the drive to Auschwitz and we didn't see anything on our bite. Mark Fry verdict is making you free and vetting the packages. We had to take twenty kilos. But what came. He didn't have any idea idea these verse for us. A SHOCK EB unbelievable shock. Voday did visas after after you know what was what was the first shock. What was the first thing that happened? I tell you I don't like to mand to tell the story but the make so a Biki impression on me. We almost over the good standing. Go got their mom on slee and holes and the whole snow was bloody and these picture. I sold the second time mend when remade Excuse me I feel now everything a lot stronger than then I came from Auschwitz. I tell tell you the truth because then we are so happy to be free. It was almost unable forty. I don't normally see to Asian and now when everything stops stabilized anti CD throughs. And I cannot understand how could it happen. How Kutab take a tragedy like these at bill never be discovered? I too believe me. How could it be diverted to rue de the ease or heard about dis like nothing? You know nothing happened so bought so what you know and I think we had to survive and to ask. Who's who says is these nature? God I don't know V.. Hit to be messengers. Somebody had to survive to tell the story and tell the story you went with your sister told me about your sister Leah. In Auschwitz very formed the expression expression the guilt of the survivors. He was the so the loud house. Day It is the fourth of December in the evening Ivan vetoed. It was very hard to May to go to visit because and they didn't let the block you know. And I came in anti-soviet she was under floor on the under stone floor in a coma and and the do rats have had evoke. Could there and back in the loop beautiful good little of my father and she how David David fighting to to to take to school the someone who didn't want to take and how they were fighting and and the vert the students rose you know I had a picture. Maybe he because I was still young. She was woman and and I so her really like something something special and she stayed in my mind like some special person that that you could do something important but they cut off her life so it was inverse happened at the top deal. Now I can tell you that I that I do understand. They cannot understand. I don't understand anything anything coffee. Do you know how many think of it. How did you survive? After I mean an and find the strength to survive after your sister you know I came from the camp terminally ill will be stupid in my leg and eighty years ago to build Colossus Sterno internees so so it was a little bit concentration of the leg because it was very paid for and I was limping. And deducted UH Jewish. Your doctor came to me and said edit you cannot go to work like these limping. You will be the same theme the key in the Gus Chamber. I can take you in the hospital for a few days. Delay New Transporti's organized. Then I will said send you back and so about two months show. Every time took me for three days after three days. She said go back back to work. Because I heard that they aren't making can transport after the transfer took me again for a few days evils so Monte Chevelle Bova very nice woman and she I can say that she safe me. v V these because been deposed has begun to be chronicle so indeed hurt anymore and had you been ill then you would have been killed. The if you hadn't been able to do that work. They would have killed. He'll do that's exactly right and the other thing you know. It's that Edith had a dear friend whose name was L. Rosenthal and sisterhood was a big part of Survival and what happened with many girls if they lost a family member of sister close cousin is it. Somebody else often stepped into that place and I write about it in the book. You know you couldn't survive in Edith says this you couldn't survive Auschwitz on your own. You had to have somebody with you. Who had your back and and helped you look after yourself and somebody you could look after and edith talks about how Elza says to her L. says to her I I can't survive without you and Edith says so I had to live that they needed each other? Yeah diva's I was fighting. I don't know if it was gotten nature my veal. I don't know it was something that pushed me to survive. Um and I want to tell you something very young and weaver full of live with all these terrible situation. Russian these these fear to fear every second in twenty four hours you know it was terrible but reverse reverse on Sundays on the bed and singing onto Don's we've wanted to sing. We won't be very young you know and you cannot stop these energy even not if you don't have enough food for Breezing v very young and and we be oh then somebody will survive the old bef- fight and on two end region. We are stronger than hate. It's a real pleasure to meet you. What a story you have? I'm glad that you survived. And it's important to hear you. I tell you the truth. I am glad all so for them but not for me. It's a hard life if you if you are sensitive very sensitive for a lot of things you know. So it's a hap life so dense vago entice speak. He tired sometimes because with children. You cannot tell them the whole twos visit the gas chambers with Gosling people we say woman a a beautiful clear lying in on the floor on the stone in in a coma she looked I when I super now she looked like it did cut. You know she was there with the hands like these so you cannot you. You know you you you cannot tell them everything so that you can you tell for other outside. Tell I'm but I cannot tell myself the true pet. You've done an amazing job easy to you. Have you have spoken truth. Thank you very much. You've any veil coming. Thank you thank you thank you had. Their mcadam is the author of nine nine nine. The extraordinary young women of the first official Jewish transport to Auschwitz. She was in New York. City Edith Grossman was one of those extraordinary young men. She's ninety five and she was with me here in Toronto for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Auschwitz Edith Grossman Slovakia Toronto Heather mcadam official president coma Justin Louis Matt Galloway Slovak Republic Camp Edith Bruce Macarthur Ed Germany Gay village heather white New York City Maya Friedman Mark Fry
Australian bushfires devastate wildlife

The Current

24:44 min | 7 months ago

Australian bushfires devastate wildlife

"This is a CBC podcast. Matt Galloway this podcast. From on the January tenth edition of the current Australian bushfires continued to rage higher. Temperatures are expected today and nearly a quarter million people bulwer told to evacuate their homes in the states. Victoria and New South Wales. The statistics are alarming. At least twenty seven people have died. Almost two thousand homes destroyed ten point seven million hectares burned. That's an area. Almost the size of the island of Newfoundland and experts are saying that as many as a billion animals could be dead yes set his billion with a B.. This is something that Adam. Jr Volunteer firefighter has seen close account grabbed every bit of walled off off and chuck it in the truck. As much as you'd love to you've still got laws properties. It's it's one of those things it's really tough and as you can imagine the animals. I've only got one more to go. I just try and get away. you say animals the Hotan Kangaroos. It's just the sad part of it. I mean is people have their himes Laws and stuff like that. Then you think of the countless animals you know and you south wiles devastating Kangaroo Allenton try. Yeah they you know you think about the snags thinking about it the bugs do you think about the birds. Think about everything pulse hymns his. It's one of the hardest. Hit areas is kangaroo island off south. Australia's Coast Sam. Mitchell is the CO owner of Kangaroo Island Wildlife Park Rescue Center Sam. Hello Yeah can you hear me. I can't hey it's Mac Gallo in Toronto how are you are you just We've got far all around us at the moment and so The clearest tell me what are you what are you in the midst of right. Now you said fires are all around you There's there's five of us on sawed at the moment we have today helping build air animal enclosures for all the rescues but the Fawz back up again and A lot of paper paper have evacuated And we do have far as blowing in a direction. So I waited sitting here with that. Far Units It Belong to the park. And just caving annoy us if we can get anything under control if it if it does hit us. How close are they to we can say lifelines Big fines. I honestly don't know everything. Yeah they quiet and the winds are strong so She's been a pretty well DI- been flat out always bring typing on all the Koalas and it was flat out here until about ten thirty. Im until the army. Got The code evacuate right so we we sent all available to that A loss and salmon and The those fires to the north and the north east of us Oh morning and Blowing towards us we had to wait in China and the far to the South and Jeff West Ncis. I used to look what they ride in pretty hot at the mine. So hopefully we're still standing in the morning. How are you holding up Sure once we if you know blows either than Dan think about. It'd be a little bit different. But you know we were we had forced flaws quark's bar tonight bombers and Water bombers and helicopters flying around and we still had shown up on trial allied twenty. Koalas all of us. I you know withdrawing the train them with minimum paypal on the grand jury to evacuations and obviously the threat of of burning Dan. Completely tell me about the state of the animals when they're brought in you mentioned the trailer equality what are they arriving in St. Some of them are just extremely only hungry. The they suffer words But it's very hungry because they himes by good and somehow they have survived some of them don't stand a chance we're saying some coming and the you know the the hands and faded burnt to the Bovine Smoking Hawaii is is too bad. And it's just there's no way of saving them Once you got third degree burns it's more travel We're saying coming that that just got boon to their hands and feet and often on the nose and we we can trait is caused the best we can It goes through vet bandaging up. His words Pine Relief Anybody Get some fatal motor into to them and very hard right them But Yeah China. Just iguanas differently saying a lot of always come in these. The KOALAS that are on kangaroo kangaroo island these these are different than the ones that are on the mainland right. Yeah well they are a southern. KUWA- Stri Leah and Victoria. We have the southern Kerala our up while I was in coined the northern Koala But even Kendra Wall and one's a considered to bay disease free So you know they suffer from COMMITTEEA. I've run the mainland and At one point we had about fifty to sixty thousand Koalas here up until this morning we were talking walk off or half. The population is going with the father. But in pretty extreme that I'd on how bad they You know we just painting in the park Taping Annoy up. But Yeah it's a lot more move educations burning pretty hard the moments I it losses could be out there Morgan. And what is that like having to. I mean you mentioned that there are ones that are are so badly injured that they can't be saved. What is that like to have to to process it in terms of how you deal with us? Well gotTA deal with the mind. Everything started five You know everything is rough a little bit rough for the moment we will prepare to have anywhere from forty to ten rescue Koalas at any one time. But then you know we've saying maybe a hundred and fifty now. Oh what and recount came out with well drawn a cave with the building will gone along. Lastly until the builders had to be evacuated today So we're having them the best we can until we can get some better facilities and infrastructure up and running Syria I'm yet here. We had thirty army any personnel quite not preparing areas Then obviously rotten things change so Hopefully a heavily was still standing in the morning can continue to save as many animals as we can. And the ones that you can't you have to put down. Yeah unfortunately and Got Vets on so as much as we can but there are a lot of road clauses. It's pretty hard to get over. He to the ORLAND and and Yeah I've been doing that myself euthanizing It's not pleasant. You know we. We've got a large filling up And a lot lot of them. Don't even make it. In you know they the trojans too much for them in the Telling people fall on them and managed to get them to US sometimes. I just don't Mike at all. They're on their loss breath as I show up But you know there are a lot of successful stories of And we have saved a lot so I said we had we say probably a hundred and fifty And I reckon we've got about a hundred years ago. I was still going strong It'll pull both were quite well number will double you know in the coming wakes Even more there's so many Koalas here As I said a lot of them have have perished in the forest but there is a Lotta at editors no longer have a fade soil so they will stop saying some stop and go as quick as we can then we can get them. Hey get them fed and worry way we're going to you know the habitat Later on down the track I was GONNA say. How worried are you about as you say later on down the track? The long-term Look for for the animals there that we've got not a Lotta support. A Guy Page is really taking off So we'll put a little money into rehabilitating as Koalas and building planning out and you habitat for them but honestly We gotta get through today and then the more about What's going on at the moment of animals and that's next week's problem? Do you think that being busy and having everything kind of happening all at the same time in some ways is a bit of a relief. So that you don't have to sit down and you think of the scale of this a little bit but you know I wouldn't you want an off you're out here and you often you pack them into the car and send them into Tim so you don't have to worry about their safety saying what's going on. I do hope. Yeah Right. drop-goal yeah this guy. My Sam I'll let you go. You got fires all around Joe appreciate it be well Sam. Mitchell is the CO owner of Kangaroo Island Island Wildlife Park and rescue center. He's in Donna Australia. Finding the coal is in need of rescuing can be difficult and that is where bear comes in. Bear is not a bear where he is a co Wallet Detection Dog Roman kristaps coup is a Koala ecologist and one of bears keepers. She's on the Sunshine Coast and southern Queensland Australia. Roman hello hello. Hello how does bear find injured qualis so We trained him to detect Kuala sent. He's got a tough job because if you can imagine living tree So the sentence of hard to pinpoint But he's helping us Point Cornell L. for research so that we can tag them and then follow the movement across the landscape and so for him It's it's just the same game it's a game and to find the scent and engaged to play with the ball so he doesn't really realize that doesn't actually injured and in need of care. You just wants to get to play with his toys so when he he smells a Koala what does he do. So he's trying to drop We didn't want to train to bark because we do work in wildlife and area in national channel parks and and all the beautiful places in the last thing you want is to actually introduce a predatory that's going to stress out animal so you just it's very quiet to say just drops and then you wait for us to catch up to play with his bowl so in the scale of this devastation. How much of a help has bear been in helping to rescue injured? Koalas list at the end of the day as you say this Kelly's just so mind blowing is hard to imagine it but I'm not GonNa lie to you. It's a drop in the ocean. We we might have lost thousand. We still don't know And if I still going so we will need to just turn takeoff breath when this is all over and calculate really and and see how how bad it is but it's going to be bad that we know but at the moment we just you know all of us trying our best to do something. Even if it's a small thing inequality at this point of. Tom Is important because you know as you will. It'd be a proportion of the population you're going through what's called a genetic bottleneck And that's bad. News Bruce for animals because the more diversity have the better they are at being resilient to any future change and that's exactly what we throwing them so we at this at this point of time even though it's not off it's it's better than nothing Tommy Bear. What kind of dog is he? He's a crazy. Yeah it's funny locates. You know. It's it's the kind of dog we look also although Bastia dog and the way we choose him. It's the dog that moms to play all day long and Often those dugout much the pet because they're really obsessive and single-minded So we actually found them impounds very often and we have I five of them at the moment that we've trained on on different older but mainly for research and Berries Different Keel craziest and is and is very funny character. He's always Or was it bit over the top so I I think old your dog a little bit time. You know not not jealous. Because that's it's not what they'll do but David over the same and Indimedia got because he's just a he's not much more polite dogs with with the other crew so it's like come on but that's singlemindedness is important as you say because he you want him to be obsessed with with with finding that's that's it. Yeah exactly so even sometimes. It's a bit much bear and Haw but yeah for for you know especially for the other five of them are really brought up says that there is the less Is is a bit socially awkward if you want the one that kind of pushes all the rest of them around but you know no. This is how we select them for that that obsession and and when the boys out she just forgets where he is. He's on the other dogs. He pushed him around and and the word disappears And the only thing that matters is that tennis ball went. So that's that's how we can go anywhere and work in many places even post fire because bear doesn't not that big issues. You've got the tennis ball and we're going to get to play. And that's all that matters he's become a bit of a star on the Internet Tom Hanks Leo DiCaprio. Oh and other people giving him shutouts on social media. What is that done in terms of raising awareness for the work that you're doing We hope it's done a lot for the because of calling for the Oriental differing post fire To be entirely honest with you. We think it's a bit too much to focus only on there that we understand. He's a he's a great story is a rescue dog that no one wanted and you know that ended up doing some good for conservation and being. Even you know price by Tom. Hanks so it's kind of a you know gives hope to win a personal note that you can be unwanted at some time in your life but still will end up doing something really good and and also I think it gives hope that you know they are a lot of us on the ground not just bear trying to do whatever we can and But really what hope is is that the you know to bear in through the plight of Koalas people awakening to the fact that we need more action for climate change. Because you know this is terrible this year but imagine next year and the year after we can't continue through that much habitat Through those lose extreme catastrophic events. So that's a WHO in the team. Is You know people are treated to that lovely story but then they see the bigger picture check in the in demand you know a bit a bit of future for the Animal. We could use some of the hope that you're offering in. The bear is offering in the midst of this bleak story Roman It's great to talk to you. Thank you so much and good luck. Thanks Roman Christopher who is a Koala ecologist and one of bears keepers. She's a research fellow at the university. The of the Sunshine Coast and co-founder of detection dogs for conservation for years. Men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel feel terrorized. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover off. We see this is happening. How can you not see this? Bay Suspected serial. Oh killer and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever you get your podcast well. The devastation from these wildfires is overwhelming but in the midst of that Australians have been doing all they can to help keep wildlife alive. The the area was very hard to get into so far had wrapped around on the other side and it was coming down the hill towards is half the the quality would just sort of coming out of out of the scrub basically we just turned and data and the Landau said. Look plucks them up and and put them in her laundry laundry and laundry. Those already Fought qualas sitting in. So I just kept coming out these two wireless and then later on off Sandy. Up that DI- A lady Eddie had saved living in total so flu is very very lucky that we had people that were very wildlife savvy. Then you want to do as a volunteer firefighter at mudge. Once again John Grant speak for wildlife information rescue and education services or wires. This is the largest wildlife rescue organisation organisation in Australia. John Hi Ecologists are estimating that more than a billion animals have been killed or affected by wildfires. That number is is almost hard to comprehend. What are you hearing well? We're hearing the same thing I mean. It's a staggering Figure but It's actually been it's been Worked out scientifically. I professor Christopher Dickman who. We actually is with with Sydney University and way away by students Sydney as well so The university is actually Donna because explaining how the brain rached And when he says affected yes as a hell of a lot of deaths and all of that but there's also What continues after the fire? Is that animals lose their habitat with five million hectares burnt out a lot of animals that have lost their habitat and habitat. It's not gonNA come back for quite a long time. So they were all affected their animals that obeying he'd on the arises I look for new habitat being killed so they're paying affected. There's I we were already in a terrible drought situation here in a strident so the animals that had managed to guys base. Bushfires at going onto land was already drought-affected food shortages stopped issuing kicking in. It's it's it's it's been terrible. It's it's it's devastating. How concerned are you about the possibility of extinction for some of these species given everything that you've just said and the long tail of of this story well it's a very it's a very real possibility With just one group that I know of There everybody probably knows Amy's industry. Yeah but there's a particular group of emus in northern New South Wales which grow coastal aim. Use the different from the other Amused must have branched off at some point. Now we're very worried about what's happened to that colony. Since the five the impact of spas I think because of the scale of it which is hard for people to imagine unless they a here the impact of the is not going to be felt for some time so we don't even know yet what may have survived. What my may have escaped Well we know that most of the animals that have skype with are the ones who could outrun the flaws of. I could fly out of paws so that leaves a lot of our animals wouldn't have been able to go anywhere you know the small all and Gurus the smaller Gliders Flying Foxes abandoned coots all those sorts of animals and there are rare examples examples of those in colonies throughout all the areas that have been burnt out and we can only assume that they will vanished. it's GonNa take a while for anybody to get in there the the complication is that even if they managed to go into the hall they're GonNa come out and it's going to be nice food day for them so we're going out of the moment putting food stations stations wherever we can so that animals that have thoughts of something and then as soon as we can get into on then people will such the more. It's heartbreaking to here. Yeah I it's not breaking but we have to remember why the Oganization The the speaking to now we've got about two thousand six hundred volunteers across New South Wales and each of those volunteers has trained and each of those volunteers is taking in fire affected animals as we speak and most of them a young most of them. Joey's Bain rejected by. They're not rejected. That's a harsh word to use a survival instinct. Stink with these animals and I have to skype File or anything. That's threatening his a Bible. Throw the Joey as they go. 'cause it's the five limiting them to side of themselves. I so we are finding a lot of the Joey's that have been thrown acid that the parents have tried to escape the flames Some of got burnt pause. You know they're. They're not nice injuries but their injuries that they'll recover from so you know all the cares. The positive thing to this is that you know. We've it whatever we can to help rebuild the population That's been devastated. Three Days Bush fires and the drought. Tell me more about the people who when we heard of that off the top of the woman with the laundry hamper and the qualities that kept coming out one after one issues resting in. There was a woman I'd heard the story who was living in a car after her house burned. Turn down and she was taking in wallabies. That was that was that was the last week gas. Well she actually had the full care. Already this is happening to because a number about Volunteers are in rural areas. And they're on the fringes of the cities. Where what are they going through? So we've had a number of people have to pack up. Oh Up to. I think think one person had to pick up thirty animals and bring them with them. You know they did it in a number of cars obviously But this lady. Sometimes when he's five happened the the evacuation can come like an hour before something happens quickly so The lady you're talking about the volunteer you're talking about. She got the call from the police chat delay immediately and she just put the giants in their patches into and she went down towards the Beach Shen she like a lot of other people the show you've seen the footage of people sleeping on the wholesome their their dogs and cats and their their pets and their children and and she was done with all of these in the car and she's lost everything unfortunately but she will She's given those wallabies to another carrots cops the moment while she rebuilds her loss. But Yeah we've had other people have been evacuated have had to bring their joey into the city so they've been in place into through The the center of Sydney in their parents backed out and Hopping around there happily on the holiday before they got back So you know we can all the doom and gloom. There's some. There's some happy stories going on of volunteers. Rescuing all manner of you know. I think people don't realize that ring tail. possums that those little We call them pinkies. those little. Joey's when they come out because they don't have any hair. On at that point said their pink they wipe out three three hundred grams when they come in tiny tiny little things and yet with the rock kid I managed to survive. You know we've little little batch always that are coming in he's a lot of these ones because see The mother has been hit by a car or she hasn't survived some rain. But the JOE is in the past that you always can survive in the the patch for up to forty eight hours after the parents has died. So you know Alan teased out along the roads out where the FIS even if I find it let's live because we're up often Mad I just die from dehydration exhaustion Afterwards but that doesn't mean the Joey's on still living in the patch so they always do a patch check and if the If the veterans this is that there's a chance that all animals got to first resistant. And it's that. There's a a chance of being rehabilitated. And that's exactly what the volunteers do their amazing. The it sounds amazing and again in a bleak situation. It's good to hear some positivity and people pulling together as they try and make the best of what's going on John I appreciate you talking to us in the best of luck. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. We appreciate all the concern coming from all around the world so thank you. John Grant is a spokesperson for wildlife information rescue and education services. He was in Sydney Australia. For More C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

KOALAS Joey Australia Tom Hanks Leo DiCaprio Sydney New South Wales Toronto kangaroo island John Grant China Victoria Mitchell Sunshine Coast Bruce Macarthur Matt Galloway Donna Australia Adam Kangaroo Island Wildlife Park Newfoundland
Haisla First Nation in Vancouvers Downtown Eastside

The Current

22:42 min | 6 months ago

Haisla First Nation in Vancouvers Downtown Eastside

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis. This season on uncover C. This is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever. Get Your podcast? This is a CBC podcast at Galloway. This is a podcast in February. Thirteenth addition of the current. Coming to you from Vancouver. The many troubles have been cougars. Downtown eastside are well documented. Drugs poverty desperation. Our next story from there is about hope about first nations man from Kitimat on. Abc's North Coast. Who's trying to counter some of that narrative it's about his unique work and trying to make a difference one day and one person at a time. This is one means. Hamilton's documentary not alone now. This is actually one of the alleys I hang out and James is a complicated man. I'm James Harry from the nation. And he's a heisel first nation in. Kitimat married with children. He was a former addict has crack cocaine alcohol. I'm walking the streets in the downtown eastside and Vancouver with James. So we're not down here. We'll we'll cut into the the alley behind data west. That's that's probably the busiest alley down here. So could you tell me what your life was like when you rejected living on the downtown eastside? One word and that's hell didn't know at the time but Risk Questions in North America Walking Hastings Florida Openheimer Park. Nothing by rain and it was trying to stay. Stay warm and try to try to keep dry. Weather is in between the dumpster doorway or just fighting for a spot and those doorways. The busiest alley. And you've got to get that far. They're the alleys or another world. They're dark Dank Dickinson. Ian World Summertime. It was Other side they're drinking all day and somewhere to relieve themselves in this. Come the risk smell of a of a urine feces and just combined with eight. He's still goes down to the downtown eastside everyday only now. He's looking for his own. First nations people who are struggling with addiction themselves. James is just over fifty years old. He's got what I call a one of the guys look He's slender but sturdy. Built and that comes from years of Playing basketball and soccer salt and pepper hair more salt and pepper. He's got deep set eyes. He's been six years. I believe now drug and alcohol free during the height of his addiction. Jay was once again. Made a foray into the downtown eastside into a particular alley that that he frequented. When I knew I was GONNA use and or to pick up her alcohol or drugs. I always had that guilty feeling back my head he was there for. I think he said three to five days dragging just drugging. I remember this one. This one moment going home. Try to sneak in and opener. Daren my my kids Popped up and see how happy they were there. Were Okay and now we're alive and how quickly those those is want to hurt is and that for the first time pierced him. I vowed never to and my power deaths to bring on his head is anymore and that was the thing that propelled him to seek help for his addiction and get it and become a drug and alcohol. Free my very first First Moth and recovery and all their told me said careers kept here for a reason to find out what there is in his. He'd still go down to the downtown Eastside to congregate with his highly people. Come down and I'd just grab coffees and pass out and talk and one day. He happened upon young fellow my cousin's son from high SLA who was deep into addiction. He struggled down there and they're worried about him so I connected with him he just had a human heisel. First nations bro Connection he called and let them know that we we found online is okay and continue to connect with them and stay. Stay in touch with them. And in time he encouraged the young man to to get treatment and I think the young I said to him. Just take me home said okay. I'll get all and jeans. Drove him to his little single room. Occupancy unit which is like a bug drug-infested little eight and a half by eleven hotel room somewhere in the down dark downtown eastside and the guy got his little bag things got into James Carr and James drove him eighteen hours home and got out of the city to kick them out to the Heisel first nation and the guy got into the trial center the healing center that they have there and kicked his addiction. He still lives there today. The young man's fodder James Cousin was on the Kim at first nation's council and he saw not only this connection James had with his son but the living breathing proof that whatever james had done with him worked and if it could work with him could it work with others two or three months later the Kim at first nation went to James with a proposal. That proposal was to be an outreach worker to find their members struggling with addiction on the downtown eastside in Vancouver make a connection encourage them to get off the street and to get treatment and GM said yeah. I pull about the position. And he's actually. Why why Creator Kevin here? That's why on any given day you can find James. Walking the streets in the alleys of the downtown eastside. I make my way down to the war zone as say a little prayer in my car and create a keep you safe fast. Ss behind me. I'm there were infidels block to block. You don't notice them. You're right people hang out here. Just one of the first things you notice very unobtrusive not aggressive very monastic. He's comfy but he's always is always darting back and forth look both ways here it is looking watching doorways looking for people looking for maybe a neighbor communities. We have a couple of members that out here and walk through here. I'll just STU Lavar let him know that I'm here. And just let them know that sport is always there. When he'll walk? You see somebody knows. He just makes a connection. Yeah it's nice today. How are you? How's things rea- you know what I like. The rain a little bit like an enormous James Shake hands like yesterday was James. Hugged them to go and be dad. And that's how it was all the time that we walked down. I notice when James Sees utter highs. The people he else greets them in the same way. He says y'all yo it's helped have your ear and elder back home. How people will see that back. And that's highs the people's greeting to one another so they they know they never forgot something. Still little connection. But it's a connection on the less. Just pass to coffees and saying hi to somebody. Struggling down there or law feels alone down there just means the world to how do you find that her highs the people how do I find them? Yes By word of mouth or just Just on my daily rounds and sometimes the by flu Kobe. Walking down the alley and just say hi to somebody and before you are. I find out that There is land and he makes a connection with a heisler person struggling with addiction. His first words to them every single one of the he says my name. James Harry I'm here on behalf the highs nation and then what you know that you're not alone that pierces people almost all the time. Some people reject hurry rejected. It hurts. We ran into a guy that was struggling with addiction. Already you could see that he was tweaking. Its drug use her. He was under the influence of a drug. Because I was there at one time myself. Neil maybe I'll just take some time two minutes later where we walked down the same alley guy approached him. Short quiet spoken Nice fellow that is Partly from the highs I in another first nation and James. They've been talking to him for some time. This time the the guy approached James and James broke our walk a couple of minutes and settled. Could you wait for me this corner and I did and while I waited for him at that corner he took the guy for the detox center? That's what that's what the guy wanted that. He was ready to to try throughout the nineteen eighties. Strange phenomenon sweeping North America. They were in a panic and like people in a panic. They want solutions allegations of underground satanic cults torturing and terrorizing children. The thing is there were no satanic cults preying on children and nearly thirty years later the people touched by it. All are still picking up. The pieces. Didn't a work of fiction. This is a work of history satanic panic the latest CBC. I'm cover available now. I know those actually what they're going through. It may be the at these different drugs. Or what have you but I still see that person's struggling nice. I still see that. The Personal Austin feeling not worthy and not. You don't don't deserve your life. I know how that feels. Edwin was the first heisler person. James helped as outreach worker very success story Edwin. Tell me about that. When I met him I met him on the block. He district coached me. One time in downtown quarter. When I was drinking I guess my marriage I remember from high school and he looked at win and said my name is James Harry. I'm from the Hizbullah first nation and I want you to know. You're not alone when he mentioned his name I said Oh. He used to play basketball. Didn't you James Harry? Edwin fo was born into a heisel family. But I think at age five or six was adopted in Kitimat a non first nations family. He's part of that. Sixty skip era in later years met a girl and was going to have a baby when his daughter was born he wasn't there for he was off drinking and partying to her family members. Male didn't like what he did and took him inside right now. They said they didn't care where I but they said I was not welcome in Kitimat so he left his snake Devastated Got Vancouver was drawn like Moss to light the downtown eastside difficult for me to blend in and get to know people in just the sheer number of indigenous people very quickly took off people who who drank a lot met some people in shelters saying. Hey you WANNA go drink and drinking Chinese cooking wine and gradually. I drank real alcohol. Beer in Hyder drinking drinking drinking drinking middle nineties. Maybe I was drinking hand sanitizer. Rubbing alcohol mystery into hairspray. I ended up in Oslo periodically. Lake I know. Alcohol is depressing. pick up the phone and say Suicidal I want to end my life and ended up going to the hospital ended up going into the psychiatric ward thinking. Well not given my life up because of my family like I. I know they don't have that kind of money to bury me. And or whatever people he knew would pass out and not wake up. It's brought a lot of my my friends at I associated with down. Kill Them so take. He tried to heal wants himself? Call into a drought center and then I relapse and then in the course of that relapse while he was literally laying on the ground. Jason walked up to him and reach down and pull them up. Says you're ready to do it again. I said I gave him some options and he heals. Let's do it hasn't yet gone. He made the arrangements that was two years ago. He helped me get clean and sober. He's alive gay. I owed him for saving my life. If it wasn't for James I probably be still out there in my addiction. More six feet under. He works a little job. An organization that I'm with mission possible and these one of several cleanup crews their cleanup along streets and he often says there was a time when I used to letter. I throw my stuff away and I didn't care now. I pick up after people that don't garbage Kansas. What was it about James that made you trust and open up to him him? Being a heisel felt good to that somebody do somebody out. There did care about me back then. I didn't think no one cared about me. He's proud of what I accomplished. When I sat down to talk to Edwin. He was just getting ready to leave him out the next day he was going back to. Haisla chief among the reasons for him going back was the hope of meeting his daughter. If she wants to the daughter he was an infant when he left she'd be twenty two now. Maybe twenty three to be nervous. Maybe I'll take her for dinner and sit down in back. Have A conversation. Every that's down. There is is running from something. They're running from the trauma. There's no secret that do I. What happened to people? In the residential schools in the sixties scoop and opinion dirt in those those horrible schools and were there back to our communities inflicted on the Chameleon families and to actually today's told me passed on defendable crisis gives us more urgency to his work because at least two to three people that I know of that he's tried working with have died. Fennel overdoses his own. Just our minds. Which again just Russian Roulette. He grieves those losses lost and we had the connection they would call and keep in touch down one call when they let me know that she didn't make it. That has heartbreaking. Who's a maid? Mamie question if I'm if I'm doing my job rape but you've got to go on those other lives too. Still try and save been living in Vancouver Proximity Twenty Years. Twenty five years and wins five foot seven five foot eight few times that I've seen him. He's wearing a Hoodie with highs. Long IT IT'S A. It's an indigenous design designed by somebody from highs la the Hoodie that I'm wearing now is James. James Actually gave gave Along with a pair of sweat says he says the nation down the lake and a high ball cap is makes me proud to know where my background is? The day that I met Edwin was also the day that Krista Smith the chief councillor of the highs the first nation came down to take an outreach walk with James and got to actually meet the chief counsel crystal she is the face and the voice for the most part for the highs of first nation elected. Chief Councillor I said if we're going to bacchus program I want to know what it does. I WanNa see it impressions. She was heard shocked stunned. I think in many ways by what she saw especially in those allies later when we went to the old team does when we met. I wouldn't say Yo means hello in our language and she just looked around and James introduced me and he's got always put that Mr this masterful whenever are successful person that succeeded and she says so you're Edwin. You are amazing to our people and she refers to add win as a living reading. Success Story owes an honor. We had just one member walking walking main and seen for a couple of days and we stop and talk for a fight. Mass News just blurt out said. I'M NOT READY TODAY. But just to know that you're here for us and already means means the world to me and I know it means the world a lot of people out. There are people out there. James makes trips back to Kitimat regularly. Press part of his job on the road you go for eighteen hours. Could you tell me what the drive is like? That's a long drive. It's a beautiful drive. Certain points on my walk will think about parts of that drive like gone through the Canyon. We have our normal at Canyon will sit on the On the barriers Aaron just will sit there for five ten masters looking at the power of the river. What is it like for the person that you're taking home Lots of sleep out there. The last one to three days with no sleep at all and so just We come up for for some food and bathroom and re back out. He's the driving force of the downtown core. He tries his darnest out. Hope I feel you do this. Position them them knowing that they have a little piece of home that are trying to help them. I do miss home but when I go home it's only for visit and that's something comes up when I go up there and and my daughter tells me tag live at home that Say Yes okay. I'll stay. Will I spoke to by phone the other day? He said he went to kick him out. But he didn't end up connecting with his daughter while he was there and he was reticent about why but he did hold out hope that one day they might meet again at wins back in Vancouver back working at the same place he worked at before and he still sober approaching his third year of sobriety. See the marina and I see the water the ocean. It's they feel grounded. I want everybody I work with everybody. Come in touch with WHO struggle in alkaline. Rose to feel the way I feel today already. We've been listening to not alone. It's a documentary produced by the CBS's Wyoming's Hamilton Rafferty Baker. And the current documentary editor Joan Weber. At least two other first nation communities are considering hiring similar outreach workers you can see some amazing photos that Rafferty Baker took on our website at CBC dot ca slash the current for more CBC podcasts Goto CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

James Vancouver Kitimat James Harry Edwin fo eastside basketball Justin Louis James Shake Toronto James Actually North America Bruce Macarthur James Cousin Galloway Hamilton Abc Gay village crack cocaine James Carr
Coronavirus and stigma

The Current

21:00 min | 6 months ago

Coronavirus and stigma

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis. This season on uncover. We see see. This is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast this is a CBC podcast Hi Matt Galloway. This is a podcast from the January. Twenty eighth edition of the current well. Misinformation is definitely Something that's a feature of outbreaks. This is something that's we have. Public Health are prepared to respond to the challenges that sometimes these urban legends Gen's misinformation can totally take a life of its own. Dr Steven Hoffman is among the many public health experts now grappling with how to respond to the new corona virus. Thus far the two cases have been reported in Canada but it seems at this point. Fear is spreading faster than the disease over the past few days. Thousands of parents from communities north of Toronto have signed a petition calling on students who have recently returned from China to be quarantined. That kind of response has some people worried that these feelings are less about infection infection than they are but it's in a phobia and it prompted the York District School Board to write to parents cautioning them against bias and Racism Frankie. He is a student at the Munk School of Global Affairs and public policy at the University of Toronto. He's been tracking response to the Corona Virus Online. And Terry Chew is a mother and activist warning to both the name. Frank Start with what you have seen this week described the post that you saw on facebook yes so it was an unofficial unofficial western university. FACEBOOK group An individual claiming to be an alumni of western had made post sharing a fake news. Imagine essentially shortly labeling Chinese people as dirty as disease ridden and use a very derogatory term starting with the letter to describe the Chinese community I'm and when I saw it brought back a lot of flashbacks of SARS and seeing that prejudice and this idea that Chinese people that were dirty thirty or disease you're in west coming back and that really kind of made me feel this pain and anger that I haven't felt in a while just on facebook looking at twitter These are some the less objectionable. If I can put it that way tweets that we came across every virus erupts in China. Stay away from Chinatown in New York. Corona virus is on the Chinese. When you hear that when you see that kind of stuff again how does it make you feel? It's it's it's hard to kind of put into awards because in some ways it's it's A. It's a mix of a lot of emotions really. It's this frustration of not being able to to do enough to combat combat dot. It's this sense of anger of being having this label painted on you of having your community painted as US monolith. It's this sadness of having to you know once once again. See Your community and see those in your community victims of this racism and it's just you know also fear that not only as a community. We have to the precautions to protect ourselves and protect others from the virus but also had to also grapple with this racism. Now Terry this is something that you are tweeting about over the weekend. Fearful there might be a racist backlash to the arrival of this virus. What's going through your mind when you hear about the posts like the ones that frank saw you know it's a lot of it's out? There is unnecessary. I mean I'm seeing a lot of posts about oh Chinese people eating bats snakes or whatever I mean the reality -ality is that every culture that does eat. Animals has their own unsavory a practices. I mean it's not like Western animal. Eating practices did not bring us mad. Mad Cow or antibiotic resistance right and so we have to keep a lot of this in mind. A lot of this is born from poverty when people have to eat whatever that they could find and catch hatch and yeah some of it may have made its way into delicacies and whatnot. But it's really unfair to judge people based on consumption habits like that and so you're seeing a lot of this kind of backlash owner dirty. 'cause they eat whatever animals and then you're paintin eighteen people who have been here for generations of. Oh you're part of a group you do that and it it just becomes a unsavory. You tweeted in my Chinese moms chat group. We discussed how to brace ourselves and the kids for the inevitable wave of racism coming our way as this unfolds many of us have never been to China but no we will not go unscathed. What are you worried about? You know we're worried about mostly the kids what they will here. I mean those of us who were around during SARS ars remember for example. A friend of mine. She was a teaching piano and she was waiting for a rind and some high school kids Ed's drove by and started screaming. SARS SARS at her right and so that's the kind of stuff that is very unnecessary. And that's the that's the targeting that we fear as parents that we don't want our kids to have to go through. Have you experienced anything. Noticed people treating you differently in the real world since the corona virus break started. We're very early right now. And I am in an academic environment as well so it's academia has a bit of a bubble so that's not reflective of the real world totally their stories stories of people of Chinese heritage for example. You get a tickle in their throat. They're afraid to cough on the subway because they're worried how people are going to look at them. You're nodding Franken. Is that happened to you or is that something that you're aware Actually just just yesterday before he was coming on the show I was talking to my mother who works as a nurse in a Toronto Hospital. And and this story like I kind of get emotional telling but you know she does work as a nurse. She's in Toronto Hospital and yesterday a patient actually came up to her and asked her they can have a mask and my mom is a nurse has to ask. Why are you? Coughing sneezing and a patient told her. No there's just so many Chinese people around here I need a mask and my mother is like Nisha ethically Chinese and to me you know understanding with SARS. The majority of people who cases in Canada forty two percent of cases in in Canada. We're healthcare workers right where people playing themselves on the front lines. Nurses like my mom who who take care of sick people who put themselves at that risk but nonetheless they're still going to be victims victims of this rate and and that that was very very very painful to hear but beyond that after I made post talking about the fact that was coming on so many of my Asian friends message music. You know today on the subway I sat down and this lady looked at me and walked away Aso's getting on the train. This couple whispered about how the Asian man with the mask had a disease. He's or how someone just visibly cover their mouth when they came into proximity with an Asian person right so these stories are happening. Even though it's very very early on like these things you notice and even these little actions they might not mean much but nonetheless it kind of dehumanizes you and makes you feel lesser than or that. There's something wrong with you. Notice them I mentioned in the introduction election the petition that's been signed north of the city of Toronto. Something like eighty five hundred parents signing this petition. Part calling for students who have family members who've recently traveled to China to be quarantine people being asked to report to the teachers so that parents the other kids can determine whether they wanNA keep their kids in school or want to send them home. What would your response be to people who say that? This isn't about zero phobia. This isn't about racism. It's about precaution. That a virus is spreading. People want to do everything they can to make sure that they catch. I think there's a very fine line between taking the precautions. We we need to that. Experts say is necessary at the time to prevent the spirit of the disease. So whether that's Corentin Corentin watching travelers from higher scariest areas. No one has any issues with that but I think what the concern is right now. Is that the spread of this virus. Just like the spread of SARS has been used to bring bring back a lot of anti Chinese anti Asian tropes and racist stereotypes that really date back throughout centuries and Kit Canada's history read this idea of yellow peril all of this Chinese hoard coming to destroy Western civilization to bring disease and we and we see that reflected in how people are reacting here. And it's an an and I cautioned that it's very important to not let our response and how we react to this. Be Driven by paranoia. We need to listen to the facts. We need to be responsive to what the experts tell us and take the precautions that we need to take. Terry what would you say to those who've signed it's not just in York region their petitions elsewhere in the province of Ontario. Who perhaps and beyond? What would you say that people who've signed those petitions I said we need to put things into perspective and I mean it doesn't help that? The media is driving a bit of a frenzy around the krona virus. There's a lot of misinformation the people don't know what's going on and they're afraid so. A lot of this is fear driven but if we put it into perspective SARS killed forty four people in Toronto Rhino during that outbreak. Forty one pedestrians got killed by vehicles last year in Toronto right so if we treated all these pandemics with the same degree of severity I think we would be better off than we look at something. We say we can other that because it's it's an unknown. It's a thing from over there. We can contain that. We can stop that but the reality is there are far greater risk to our children on the day to day. Fifty nine hundred people. Canadians die from air pollution every year. So these these are issues that are are real that we can tackle that is in many ways much harder to tackle but much greater risk to our children and and that's the kind of perspective I think people should have. It's like yes. There's this thing that you can other and that you can say. Hey look this is scaring but there are real risks that our children face on the daily that are far greater. You said at the beginning that we are just at the beginning of this. That's The the story around the corona virus is really just starting to unfold now. Are you worried that what you're talking about. What frank has been describing will get worse as the story continues? I think it very likely will will I if if history is any indicator to us. And if there's one thing I can ask from our allies and our friends is just to be there for your friends to stand up for us to stand up for the community have better representation of people. Not just as the roles as Asians in their professional alive as whatever give them platform so that people see us as not just Asians people see US professionals as whatever and I think that helps in the grand grand scheme of things and is your sense just finally that we as a society learned those lessons. From SARS there was two two francs point. A real story around stigma of the Chinese community. The Chinese Canadian community into thousand three when the SARS outbreak happened have we learned from that. I think that would be a very ambitious statement. You see a lot of what's happening now politically on. I'm hoping I'm very confident that the medical community has learned a lot of lessons. And they're very prepared for this to say that the general public at large has learned a lesson. I would say that's probably a bit of a stretch. Thank you but frankly very match. Frankie is a student at among school of Global Affairs and public policy at the University of Toronto. He's been tracking response to the Corona Virus Online. Terry Chu is a mother and and activist. Hi I'm Jamie for the last decade I've been a newspaper reporter and lately I'm just finding it hard to keep up with the news house of today. Simple possession of marijuana is no longer illegal it can be hard to make sense of things. Spent nine hours in the consulates. Appearance will my data. Uh I want to change that at least a little join me weekdays at six am for front burner at daily podcast from CBC News Subscribe. Subscribe now wherever you get your gas handling public fears that have the potential to spill over into xenophobia. Phobia is a challenge for public health agencies. Carrie Bowman is a bioethicist at the University of Toronto. He was on the front lines as a healthcare worker during the SARS outbreak Rick Carey. Good Morning Good Morning What do you make of what you just heard? From our previous guests about what they're experiencing whether it's online or in as they call it the real world yeah it's definitely occurring and it's definitely happening and there's absolutely parallels to SARS you know in the early days of SARS there was and when I say early days to SARS I I found. There was a tremendous transition during the SARS outbreak kind of outbreaks plural. Because there were sort of two waves of it but in the early days people's reactions tended to be often often quite guttural. There was clearly racism. Why would anyone go near Chinatown associates? I worked with colleagues of Asian descent reported that that people would move away from them. It was clearly going on during SARS of their tended to be a certain amount of thought growth. I mean we had healthcare workers that we're scared to even come to work but people grew into it quite quickly. But here's the thing that we need to remember. SARS was essentially a hospital outbreak so within thin the hospitals there was a lot going on and it was a serious situation but the broader community in Toronto was not that affected from virus. Point of have you were there on the front lines. What what what did you learn and take away from how you deal with fear when it comes to a disease well? There was people on the front line that were far higher. Risk than I was I. I was actually quarantined for a while. but one of the things that I really really learned was suddenly. You know we in healthcare often talk about this person's a risk factor that person's risk factor we Toronto healthcare workers were risk factor. And you know you. Restaurants asking health care workers not to come You know I had people asking me not to go to social events parties things like that because you were working and you know that's a very useful lesson or it was for me As a bioethicist formerly I was a social worker. That was a very important lesson to see what it's like to be pushed out an ostracized way of these petitions the one in your region. Eighty five hundred signatures. It says we cannot be overly cautious in protecting our children requesting that students be allowed to wear masks asks. Those who've traveled to China be required to report that to a teacher so the parents of other kids can determine whether they want to send their kids to school or not at the University of Waterloo. Apparently the There's a petition with more than twenty thousand signatures calling on Officials there either to close campuses or make attendance optional with students saying we. You do not feel safe going to school and into public places. What do you make of those petitions? Yeah it's a strong overreaction and there's clearly elements of racism to it. I mean we really need to look at anyone. That is is feeling dramatic. If it's your child You keep them home. If it's you you keep yourself isolated. There's clearly hints of racism or even some would say overt racism within not this idea. We can't be overly cautious and protecting our children. Don't think that there's something to that parents. Worry any opportunity to Stand up for their kids and opportunity. The parents need to take. It has to be grounded in in something real in in some kind of science. I mean what we know from outbreaks. And what I learned from SARS SARS I was you know I. It's more of a sociological event in a lot of ways than a biological one and the reaction is very powerful including economic which I'm really not qualified to speak on but but that is a huge element of it. But you know these things can divide people but outbreaks in the twenty first century. You know our global. Oh and we need to look at this from a global point of view. It's not about China it's about the whole world and yes people in China eat exotic foods. That's all over the world. It's not not just China. The response from The York District School Board in part is at times such as this. We must come together as Canadians and avoid any. A hint of xenophobia which in this case victimize are East Asian Chinese community and we must rely on our shared values of equity inclusivity Are you encouraged by that response. Very very much. I commend the Board for taking that position. And you know the reality because of the nature of this is the numbers are going to rise in the days ahead we all know that and these are still early early days I you know. Our risk is low but again the social reactions are going to be and economic are GONNA be considerable. The numbers are clearly going to rise all week and we need to be prepared paired. For what have we learned if anything Terry was skeptical as to whether we've learned anything from how the public to your point responded and perhaps changed response during SARS. Well what we learned during SARS that we do better when we all pull together and believe me late in the SARS epidemic. We had really really pulled together as a city. Not Justice healthcare workers you know and there was a lot of thrust towards economic recovery. There was a lot of you know. Good goodwill That's one of the things we learned. I think again we need to look at this globally. This this is the reality of twenty-first-century public health. Is You know all these countries are you know have an interchange of effects and you know outbreaks always occurring in China. Actually you know that's not true. Look at Latin America. Look at Africa. They're all over the world where things are emerging. How does social social media changed? I mean sounds like an obvious question in some ways. Giving you know some of the garbage that you'll see on social media but how does social media change this or challenge How we would handle discrimination and xenophobia and fear in a situation context like this well? The validity can a huge problem because the mainstream media you know has some responsibility for validity social media less so but social media can also have a very positive effect when people challenge what is being said. I actually think this will get better. I think in these early days and I remember and SARS the early days where the roughest from an ethical point of view you know. We had healthcare workers that were questioning the duty to care. You know. I've got children at home. Why should I go to work? Why would I put them on the line and you know we really grew into that and I think we will again and I actually think we're ahead on this? I hope wear head on this. I should say Than we were last time in in terms of social cohesion. What's the role of public health officials in helping thing to directly confront hints the whiff of Xenophobia racy? I know I think they absolutely need to just the way the ARC board did it and I think they will. There's a lot of very talented People doing a great job in public. What would that look like? Well making comments when they do when they you know making comments when they do public public You know public broadcasts That we need to work together on this. A night isolate I I really think that's part of it because again I go back to the fact that this is a social event a sociological event. And not just a biological one and so the and in some ways. That's the bigger challenge before us in the weeks ahead. What advice would you give? I mean I think you think of SARS for a lot of people in this city It's the work of the late. Show buzzer was. She did Wonderful Brunton Center of Calming people down also being that Voice of authority in many ways in leading people through this crisis. If you're able to give public health officials Word of advice. What would I just saved as if I'm qualified to give I would say you know? I looked at the panel on late Saturday. When you had six people in one microphone passing it back and forth I I found very bureaucratic? I actually would agree that they need you know a one or two representatives rather than an entire panel and to and to those families again again who signed the petition and might be feeling afraid right now. What would you say to them? I would say we need to look at this from a health point of view and not from a point of view of where only only people have come from the novel Corona viruses. No longer just in China. I'm forgetting the list of countries because it's changing but I think it's eight or nine. I'm not certain so you know. It's no oh longer just about China. Carrie thank you. You're welcome. Carrie Bowman is a bioethicist at the University of Toronto. Your thoughts on this would be welcome. You can reach us Through the website site C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash the current or on twitter at the current C._D._C.. For More C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

SARS China Toronto University of Toronto Terry Canada US frank Carrie Bowman twitter Justin Louis Matt Galloway Munk School of Global Affairs facebook York District School Board Bruce Macarthur Toronto Hospital
Unknown Serial Killers!

Strange Brew Podcast!

59:36 min | 4 months ago

Unknown Serial Killers!

"Airings stop insulting people. These potential listen Sharon happy horror coffee break old time radio show. We take the best pasta stories online and now finest of quality re-enactors perform them for you style of. Oh it's time to your radio drop. It's just Orly sides. We have an abundance of great guests. Music taste hearings and a bunch of ticket fart jokes. Catch the major podcast thing. We're on spotify Radi slapstick. Knock the wrecks every other Friday hips cousin. Same Difference Aries Shannon's talk. Jeffrey Dahmer Supplied Bomber Blowing Up Waco Texas Bedford tapes. Hitler faces death and this man Samsung. Which is John Mysterious Toys? And things rod loans. So when you're feeling all alone grandma. Again Stone podcast. What are his agitate. How strange very straight Super Strange? I must feel strays be justice. Fear listen to this voices just in the intro. But he's no longer a part of this. I do leave the dead horse. Fear beating this podcast of your new tuner inner and I am Her Inter Tomcat Aka. Tom Thomson I'm Villi High. And we have some Tequila going good old Jose Cuevas. It's the last thing really has from all gone. We became very. Oh Colic's during like I am now officially laid off because of this quarantine bullshit and Cova nineteen until further notice. So I'M GONNA be fucking bored so you're gonNA hear many episodes Coming up and everything so and were drinking on some beer I that weird fucking Zodiac beer again this sperm and putting don't put it on the table. It's all just Arabia's with the Jose and we'll see what we're watching Manson family vacation. I never actually watched. It is not bad I feel like I definitely have seen this. It's about a kid and he thinks that his father's Charles Manson and shit does he have like a reason to resist. I fucked up. My Dad's got yeah. We'll eventually cover Manson for sure because he's one of my favorites but I have. We know we will get to him. Because I have right now I bought on audible. Fuck in helter skelter book which is really good. So I'll get all this all of that and then we'll get into it but we have lots of stuff that will be coming up. But we're pretty much. GonNa be eventually going to SKYPE PRETTY SOON. And you'll find out when and everything we tell you but this is the times we might as well do it in case some weapons of lockdown happens down and have a way to get on. Easter guys plugged into state charged. And we're GONNA get into some unknown serial killers we got. We're getting back into serial killer as we'll we like going back and forth between other shit. So let's get into many prolific. Syra killers have been caught and end up spending the rest of their lives in jail. Many phase death row but some have escaped the reaches the reaching grip of the law. This episode of strange brew. We are getting into serial killers who have never been caught and our unsolved unidentified which is actually a surprising a lot. I feel like I've heard a lot of stories about the he killed. All these one is pretty exactly who it was but the golden state killer which I dig in audio book on him to is free audible but we'll vent golden golden state killer because he someone who recently got caught because ancestry dot com. No fucking yet really one of his blood RELATIVES ANCESTRY DOT com. They traced it back to him. So imagine death how. How does that work? No from ancestry from doing your what I'm saying. Please him at scene wasn't it wasn't ancestry. Mary's like the twenty three and me thing because it was DNA because they already had DNA from it and they didn't know who exactly. Yeah so they found out and he was an old ask do nabet. We'll definitely get into that. Well down the road getting a Bruce Macarthur ship or are we talking about right now. What's the first one on deck the Atlanta ripper? But I was GONNA say that it is interesting because a lot of serial killers like even like when we get to be Kane Shit. They lay dormant for sometimes months to a year's before they get the urge to do it again. Yeah so it'd be very weird as an urge or is it the ball. I Dunno it is but to be a serial killer and to like lay dormant not have the urge to do whatever you do. You resist it. You have to be some sort of intelligent person and have self controlled K. Akil this many times and then stop known and get back into it. You know what I mean. It's over twenty years after Jack. The ripper terrorize London. The city of Atlanta was terrorized by their own unknown serial killer. Who murdered what is estimated to be between fifteen and twenty one African American women throughout nineteen eleven in one thousand nine hundred twelve? That's weird because it's just kind of after very early this just it's actually no it's weird. Yeah it's just before World War Two One just one Rosa trees after after the victim was found murdered on the morning of January. Twenty second her head was crushed by a blunt instrument and she had been stabbed in the jaw and her throat was slit. That's a very aggressive guns off the one of those four things but it did it. Many more African American or dark skinned women would be brutalized and murdered in a similar fashion. Over the next few months what we learn about black people and serial killers that are especially women to and prostes there the Was that called there. Nobody cares about them. The police don't special k especially back then. The police did not give a fork if a black woman was dead honestly like store events but yeah but that's pretty crazy and shit so by the time that June rolled around the killer had finally garnered the attention of the press and was dubbed the Atlanta ripper on June first. A young woman named Emma Lou. Sharp was waiting for her mother. Lena to return home from grocery store shopping I just seems like such a kind hearted. Little Girl Blue Black Room. I almost nice voice. When leanna didn't show up Emma Lou went searching for encountered an African American man or a black rimmed hat and he stated girls like you before suddenly pulling out a knife and stabbing Emma Lou in the back so she just wanted to last one in the back she never mind. She managed to escape and survive but later found out that the assailant had murdered her mother so she did survive and escape and figured out now and then she knew. That's fucking crazy. Actually one week later another woman had encountered strange brew had encountered with the same unidentified man before running away so it was a black dude. That was probably killing people in his community and surprisingly. I'm surprised he got away because not even get away. You got away probably easily but I bet they probably thought it was somebody else and then you know what I mean like. Luckily because back then they would any subject that they knew was kind of black. Look okay maybe it's this guy and so yes. Yeah it'd be like. Hey you all look the same. Yeah well that is crazy because before world war one before even before like the sixty seventy S I mean black. People were treated terribly fourth now. Still it's it's it's sad but it's a reality and people have to wake up to it that neo. Nobody's fucking difference. Is the color of skin. We all the same parts on the inside but back. Then it's Kinda crazy for me. Think about it and the thing. Is You know like during war. One word they put the black dudes on the front line like yard burgers that joke member and chefs. Like what the fuck I here during the South Park movie shelves at the beginning of. He's at the front lines stupid man so their main difference suspects that were question and police made an attempt to indicate some of them for the murder. See like know Jamal. No you probably did it. Iraq bar like just joking not no one could be conclusively proven to be the Atlanta ripper. So that's where it ends. They don't fucking know what happened to the Atlanta ripper in for someone to do that and then he'd be like fuck copter on me and that is stop it does state wasn't though the dump story what everyone's GonNa be knocked. The don't story he might. He stabbed one black girl along together. They killed fifteen to twenty one okay. That's a little more. Yeah you finally have the story of the One lady Stoneman okay. Yeah that sounds a little better. Let's go the most Torius. Serial killer in history of India was simply known as the stone man and he is believed to have committed thirteen murders in in nineteen eighty nine by throwing stones may maybe boulder slingshots boulders. He's like catapults catapulting. Should bring back catapults man for war. Honestly I want to kind of ride in one. You could die. You would go thing is you would literally need like a big bubble suit or something like you know those balls protect yourself. It would feel like shit would have to be full of a lot of air into sling you that far. I couldn't imagine how far are you probably will end up in a desert and then you'd be in a city and then all of a sudden you'd be somewhere else like giving like I'm I'm at the age already in the hospital and I may be passing away. Put me in a ball catapult. I WanNa go I wanNA see the world that's fine. That's how I wanna go to pulled. I've always said I got two options right. The whole Superman thing would be funny. Have someone that fat superman falling from the sky and then dies or I said fucking mummify man grabbed me up some fucking Shit Paul my brains out after I'm dead. See what happens if somebody digs me. Up and be like weird. This guy must have been a thorough religion Leopard car. His his first victim was murdered in June that year after being bashed over the head with a stone so you know Indians they gotta fucking rule methods right. You get what you got. You don't really have any big weapon so he's GonNA use stones. The victim was a wholeness pavement dweller he's pavement dwellers he dwells on the pavement. Who was sleeping alone in a dimly lit area when he was killed of course the next six months twelve more homeless people were murdered in the exact same fascist guys doing a favourite community. Well it is finding that he's like just targeting them easiest people imaginable or the people. That's yes I property. Value was so high sleeping on the side street and Branford Maze knocker over the stone gold and nobody cares and obviously Nobody cares so you're not worried about family hunting you down. It's known for their homeless problem. Now more than it is bad. I used to people saying you know. Signs is often as it used to be. But I don't see as many homeless people now probably afraid to contract the corona and you're living in the woods like some fucking hermit growl they don't start coming onto the summer. The shelters are pretty good at how they're fucking shivers. Fuck as some of the fucking weeks ago so then victims victims were never identified because who cares right Indian just jaw and neither was the killer. He was never caught. That was it. He was bashing people overheads with stones. Doing it seems like he was more like I said like he was doing for the did they want to catch him. It's like wow someone's taking care of our homeless kind of the why would I wanNA KISS? They don't some of them. Don't even care like it's like When Robert Pickton with killing off all the people in Berta when he was killed off by the prostitutes the police were that we like really much It's the same kind of problem right. Do you WanNa talk about. Charlie chop off chop off. Charlie chop off the head on March ninth. Nineteen seventy two the body of an eight year old African American boy named Douglas. Irwin was found on a Manhattan rooftop. He had been on the roof roof and he was stabbed thirty times. Oh I was right a and guess. What his his penis was mutilated. Whole guy took it home for fucking little sucky sucky puts in his free jazz cockles. Is it like a one time snack. Or is he like. He drags on Drugs. That he sucks shit too. I one one look every day to the next seven years. It'll be it'll be one month later. Another ten euro black youth was stabbed and the subject to genital mutilation. Same fucking thing. It was another black do. It's like actually mutilating or was he just circumcising. Don't know he doesn't clarify doesn't know but if you're not sure it is entrance Hitler Book. That's the fucking book. I have an audio dude. Movie is reading but it is pretty interesting like that. They do especially in the time periods usually go after easy victims so always walking as a serial killer. Mind if you are even if you're deranged or if you are more smart you're gonNA WANNA kill somebody. That probably isn't going to get looked for. Yeah or probably isn't gonNA cause you too much to do ten year old black kid he was ultimately would he survived. He survived the penis relation and thirty. Eight stab wounds on the fucker. Did he lived? They must have someone must've saw that's not horseshoe that it is real. It sounds made whatever is of course the next two over the course of the next year to nine year old boys Wendell Hubbard and Luis. Ortiz would be stap death before having their penis removed. So he is removing the penises. That's what he's taken for as Little Carson which led to the killer being nicknamed Charlie Chop off your fucking names you back then on August eighth. Nineteen seventy three eight year old boy eight-year-old boy. Another black dude. Aim Stephen Cooper was found murdered on a rooftop with a straight razor but he didn't suffer. Fatty genital mutilations. It's like two of them. Were found on rooftops like with these kids doing hanging on rooftops and if it it weren't hanging on rooftops maybe he wanted to see them. Maybe I would think also too is that he went into sad apartment building. Maybe where he lives in say. It was a bigger part of building. You'd have to screen like everybody and you could have had to kill her rate in your front of you. But you wouldn't even know and that he was leaving the bodies on the rooftop up somewhere where no one's GonNa hear you really like non like a park. There were that many tendency to idea in nineteen seventy four. A man named Ernest so to suit was arrested after making a failed attempt to abduct a Puerto Rican boy and he eventually confessed to the murder of Stephen Cooper. However he didn't he didn't claim to be Charlie chop off and the surviving victim could not positively identify so too as his attacker. So so do you WANNA underwent numerous days in a mental hospital over the years and may have actually been incarcerated at the time of Cooper's murder so they don't really know given earner Soto's mental history and his mental illness. No one could be sure. His Confession was invalid. And there was no evidence trying him to any of the other murders so we ultimately was found not guilty by reason of insanity and spent time in a mental institution. Probably I was still pretty bad to mental institutions only like back then in the seventy S. If I'd rather that or jail now people would rather do the mental institution. Because they're sure better but morte you actually would have a room technically but however since Charlie chop off murders came to a halt following Sir. So twos arrest. Police have always considered him to be the most likely subject. But they really don't know do they. To the axeman of New Orleans Orleans sinking the American serial killer was active from May nineteen eighteen to October. Nineteen nineteen in New Orleans. This merger this murderer this killer murdered people using things. He found around their home usually an ax. The tax werethought. Yeah the tax thought to be racially motivated by the number of victims were Italian. Oh that's race to go. The action was also known for a letter that was sent on March eighteenth. Nineteen nineteen what. She told people that the night he would kill again unless their homes were filled with jazz music. Iran's fine is does mother fuckers playing soft rock. He's GonNa he'd killed six people and injured twelve and they have never caught the axeman. Here's letter letter. And let's here's letter right now already. I'll we got the letter. Read Hell March Thirteenth Nineteen Nineteen Stephen Moral New Orleans. They have never academy and they never will never see me for. I am invisible even as the either that's around or I'm not a human being but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell I'm what your lenience and your foolish police call the axeman. When I see fit I shall come and claim mother victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except for my bloody axe besmeared with blood and brains of enough to keep me company. You may telling your police to be careful to me. Of course. I'm a reasonable spirit. I take no offense to the way they've conducted their investigation into past in fact nearly stupid as not only to amuse me. My Majesty fridges. Joseph excetera but don't them to be aware lifting. Stober or who I am for we better than they were not born than under the wrath of the axe man. I do not think there is a need for such a warning from. I feel sure that the police will always dodge me as they have in the past. There is to know how to keep away from all harm. Undoubtedly you Orleanians think of me. I such a horrible murderer for which I am but I could be much worse if I wanted to. If I wished I could pay a visit to your city every night at will I could slay doubt was in some of your citizens and the worst. I've been coast relationship with the angel of death now to be exact twelve fifteen in earthly time on next Tuesday night. I'm going to pass over Orleans and my infinite mercy. I'm going to make a little proposition for you. People here it is. I'm very fond of jazz music and I swear by all the devils and the neither regions that every person shall be spared home. Jazz band is enforced. By the time I was just mentioned and everyone has been doing so much better for you. People want thing is certain people who do not have jazz not specific Tuesday night there will be any welcome well as cold in the warm than the nave tourists and it is about time. I leave your birthday home. I will cease my discourse doubt publish this out with Dean I have been and will be the worst spirit that ever existed. Either in fact bound fantasy sincerely signed set fucking trip letters long though. But he's pretty much saying like if you fucking come if you don't play jazz in your home I'm GonNa fucking come and find you and murder. You and it's like how would he know? Though the same time he'd walk by jazz going full swing yet you have to hear but anyways. I have a different question Tom After. You've finished recording that ridiculously long thing. How hard did you come jerk off the entire there? I know you just know. He had a good night after that one. I did I done did good. I'd done did good. It was a good letter that was perfect because Ford. It is sleep. That's an old fucking Who is that from fucking Beethoven or some bullshit fucking to helping some of that. How could a Frankford slasher from nineteen eighteen to nineteen ninety the FRANKFORD Nathan Teen Eighteen? Nine thousand nine hundred eighty five fucked up ninety from nineteen eighty five to one thousand nine hundred ninety so okay. That's the only five Ob. Jesus Christ. His mother fuckers going for eighty five year. The Frankford neighborhood a Philadelphia was shaken by a series of unsolved murders. The first victim was discovered on August. Eight nine thousand nine hundred eighty five. When the body a fifty two year old Helen Pay Panton was found on a railway maintenance yard. She had been stabbed nineteen times in sexually assaulted. She was also nude from the waist down and had her blouse pushed up over to expire. Expose her bare chest so factor. Yep Yep Okay. Maybe in the butthole. I don't know five months. He was looking at the breast now. He likes the women because she was fifty two and then five months later. Sixty eight year old and a coral was found stabbed to death in her apartment. The Victim Yep. She was from the waist down with her blouse pushed up. Share some fingerprints off that Shit. I know maybe he liked the old ladies but no it's just like the blows taken off. He doesn't WanNa see no knackered shoulders. What I WANNA see any before. Dna would become as big as as today. Well we talked about that. Where did talk about that on? Strange BRUIN DNA. I the first case every no Bernardo did like you know the very the very first case to ever solve. The crime was here in Canada. We talked about that. Remember from that guy from New Brunswick fuck me and I don't even remember his name later. Fuck blanking my dad's been talking about this for years. The killer would be eventually dubbed as the Frankford slasher over the next course of the four years. He was believed to be responsible for deaths of seven. More women probably some old bitches because that's what his home was. Your was your fancy was old bitches. Some of these victims were seen as unidentified middle aged white man shortly before their deaths. Oh they were seeing with a middle aged white man so he likes women around me. She was middle aged middle. What exactly is the Middle East? So I'm like yeah. So you're saying eighty forty would make sense okay. Late thirties early forties middle aged. Okay Yeah when forty six year. Old Coral dowd was murdered behind a fish market. Nine hundred ninety authorities looked at one employee Leonard Christopher as a sub- as a suspect he was eventually given a life. Sentence for Dow's murder was also accused of being the Frankford slasher however since Christopher was black. He's not match description of the white male that was seen in the other victims attacks. And what happens? They're still trying to put on. The Black Guy are you. Sure are you sure didn't changing. Can you change pigments fact slasher so say the Frankford slasher did do this this motherfucker this black to spend the rest of his life in jail for one murder? They accused of accused him of year. It could have been the Frankford slasher who could have been so far this slasher murdered Michelle. Danner the woman believed to be his last victim after Christopher was already in jail. So it'd be like maybe he didn't fucking do it but I highly doubt they let him go. Many people still think Leonard. Christopher did not kill Carol Doda are dowd and was not the Frankford slasher. If that is true that means the real killer continues to get away with murder and still might be murdering people but we just want from nine hundred. Ninety nine was middle aged Middle Age in the ninety S. That was years ago jerk off to all of his. He's probably not well. That'd be seventy but yeah but do you. WanNa talk probably not WanNa talk about your favorite homie. Not just joking. A retirement home here. Smell the original night stalker. Oh the G. before I'm Eric talked about wanted that name. Yeah also known as the East East area rapist. While the most they never learned about yeah one of the most this new auditory Syracuse of all time was Ritchie Ramirez. Richard my my homeboy. My brother from another mother says your brother or fairly not like we're just kidding. I'm just joking Aka the night stalker. I did Ramirez thought process was good like eat. Not good process is different like he. The way he spoke was actually very intelligent and he actually understood what like the world was and when he wasn't insane he was just an evil person. And some people in this world this need to Be Evil Aka. Donald Trump Aka any politician. I liked that bill other good votes on. We terrorize loss Angela. So rear as like terrorized Las Angeles area during the area during the mid eighties and recently passed away while on death row. However Ramirez Reign of terror was actually preceded by unidentified California Syrah killer known as the original night stalker. He was first known his first known murder victims was Dr Robert Offerman. My mother fucker got some bad news in. He did not take it well and his girlfriend Deborah Alexander Manning who was shot in there. Whatever they're going to a shot inside of guerrilla and their Galanga home on. What did you say water pronouncing that wrong? Go Lada Galazi. Goto leader Joe. I would say Galeta deleted with the fuck is our city on December thirtieth nine thousand nine hundred seventy nine. So Richard Ramirez Richie boy was like a kid man over the next course of the next seven years. The killer would claim seven. Okay yeah of course. That's where we said it was throwing over the course of the next seven years. The killer would claim seven more victims by a break in their homes and bludgeoning to death so he would actually go into people's homes just as Ramirez did hid and kind of like like fucked them is Ramirez. Would Ramirez got it from them? I well maybe he was inspired by him like he wanted to be called the knights soccer so he must have been doing okay he was. He must have been inspired by him. Because a lot of times killers are inspired by other serial killers and Dahmer was the only way anymore. He wanted to become the he wanted to be the night stalker. That was his name. Dahmer was someone and we'll get to Dahmer. Pretty soon actually down the road but like still can't believe we haven't touched on him either. We will. We're waiting to do those big hitters as people call them and stuff those grand slammers grand slammers not still somebody else's ship but Congress lammers but there's grand slammers that like are the most well known but like you were like. Why don't you think that he was remorseful? He did feel shitty about what he did but also to get blackout wasted to kill people and he wasn't inspired by other people he just was putting a planet in a weird soul or had a weird mentality or something happened to his head which kind of fucked him up because since young age you is like killing animals and shit like there's. I do believe that some soles. Maybe shouldn't be reincarnated here in the end happening for a balance of good and evil on certain planets. High Still Dude. We've been talking for years and I still don't know what the fuck you like every year. A little bit changes and like I. Are you saying you believe in reincarnation now? I know I always believed in reincarnation not true but I'll take you did. No I believe that you choose where you go. And that it's already it's already predetermined that you choose before you come to this this a different Saddam saying that like so you have people coming in this world. Maybe that are from dark. Different reality that will never understand. They come here to balance out good and evil because we know anything but star wars. You GotTa have the light side. You gotTa have a dark side. It's fucking the world comes together so he bludgeoned a bunch of fuck heads and Shit and nineteen ninety-six DNA tests would confirm all these murders were committed. By the same token person is from China and the late nineteen seventies and identified as sailing known. As that East Bay East area rapist terrified the Sacramento area the contract coastal country brick by brick and the white the Contra Costa will century somewhere in fucking California. Dave Weird answer everything county. Are you trying to say oh? Yeah Yeah Yeah. The content county breaking in people's homes of at least fifty women and raping them. So why like? I don't know if they dubbed Richard. Because they already knew about this guy. But that's all Richard did. Richie does go home. Broken rape the people shot them. Didn't even check if there were dead and just kept going right fucked off. He was initially targeted women. Who were home alone? But eventually started targeting couples just like Ramirez offer often forcing females to tie the mail op before assaulting her would it terrifying making the girl tied at you know she retired elusive not trust that you have to walk in and I'd be like Oh god Bro. Why maybe he's telling him to the bed so you would see the not in here at Paul Tight. The Guy was like I want to see like marks. On his wrists from how tidy days he his string of rapes would abruptly stopped when the decade came to an end as fucking crazy these in two thousand and one Delia. Resort Ramirez never got caught no and the DNA testing allowed investigators to make an incredible discovery the east area rapist the original night. Stalker were exact same person. So that's what's crazy is like they had the original nicer that way thought they call them nicer by the time it was the original toll. Ramirez came along but then in a different area of California. They thought another murderers on the hand called the area rapist saying it was DNA. They found out that it was the exact same person. Yours this again the seventies thousands. I started calling so they just then. It wasn't till two thousand one that they did the DNA. Testing would allow them to understand that the east area rapist original. Nice talk with the exact same person since his crime seemed to stop at eighty. Six is speculated that he may even died or moved away from this area. Not even that just just been imprisoned for another crying. Oh that's a neat idea to milk anyways. Think about it though like just because that's DNA first started coming. It was mid late seventies Allen was late seventies and there was the very first case ever to be committed. But after that you're not gonNA find serial killers. No I don't know of any. I don't think there's any stories between after nine hundred eighty in today. Lots and they got what a couple of murders before they died when we talk about a tween eighties. Yes Yeah Man Cooper Nardo got away with fucking how many before they finally caught him and what they want the whole Tom but also on the run. Brusca Arthur just got caught the guy that was killed like. I don't know how many people were some ridiculous. But and then he was putting bodies he was a contractor landscaper so was putting bodies inside of planters that he would play on people's property. Thanks for them my cellphone. I mean that's crazy like I said we're going to get any Bruce Macarthur. I don't remember how many people were killed. But he wasn't caught until like two years ago and blows. My mind is insane but was it the fact that they knew who he was there was DNA. I'm pretty sure that was killing the gay guys. Yes and that was a guard shooting. We actually there's a Gig I work just told me about him and I was like fucking him right and no he. He just asked me if I've ever touched upon. Who knows curious that I didn't know who he was. Arthur soon just took a shot that Tequila one liquor as you not like me fucking sounds like it tastes really bad doesn't it? That's why I got. I store some grunted and orange juice from work. I make well. I don't have pop. You need seven up to but close enough. That's only Mexicans fucking t Levin. No real to kill is not bad man. Jose no you gross. No I'm talking about Mexican brands. Akilah you go to Mexico and you buy a bottle with the worm. That's Akilah I can drink straight like it's not it's good for. I don't know what's it just makes you. Buddy has an ambiguous ever drink it but he has liquor from. Cambodia has a fucking snake in a snake a snake. Oh that's new. I've seen it and I was like that. And you know I will. I KINDA WANNA fucking the head of the snake and see what happens though dude. That's scary shit. Very the very very first time I ever tried that A friend brought it over and he came back from Mexico and he's like who wants to try the worm I would I was eighteen. I just moved to Albert and I had no idea. And he's like don't take the whole thing. Just bite it half. I kind of wanted to. I don't want to buy. They just WANNA swallow like I don't want to bite him were fucked you and I took the whole fucking thing and I remember about thirty seconds after I did it and the Nice gone soaks. What happened who knows what Mexicans did to like. Be like this is a good idea fucks you man. Let's talk about the Connecticut. The Connecticut River Valley Killer on October. Twenty Fifth Nineteen. Seventy eight. The body of twenty-seven-year-old. Kathy Miss Zillion sure trip was found in a wetland preserve in new London New Hampshire. She had been stabbed twenty nine. Times isn't the I thought. Thirty five is a going trend here. Over the course of the next the next decade her killers believed to have been responsible for the murders of at least six more women in Claremont New Hampshire and the Connecticut River Valley area like all of them. Because every story in the fucking states we have rare killers. We do have a lot to cover them. I'm just like it's always. The most notorious wonder always in the states thing is doing you can hawk from state to state jurisdiction to jurisdiction off easier. Oh in mind will eventually do like UK killers and Shit like that because we do have lot of UK listeners. Mike would that will cover yeah. We'll definitely cover however the council bills and understatement however the killers activity in the area seemed to come to a halt after one victim survived his attack. You say Oh fuck I'm done that's enough. That's enough stopping for today on the evening of August. Six nine thousand eight. A pregnant woman named Jane broths. Dick Bros teak pulled up to a convenience store in the parking lot of West. Sways swines. -I yes Wednesay. That's a cool name. She attacked she was attacked and stabbed multiple ties by unidentified male assailant. You feel like you see like she. You're saying she lived right now are you. Were saying she lived and she just didn't see who's left for dead and drove away. The homeboy drove away. Brosky survived the attack and drove off. Oh she did survive. That's what you're saying. She was left for dead. Yeah but how? Do you not see after someone stabbed you get. You're still in that state of shock to get a look at them that Longman. She drove off to find help but soon but was soon horrified. Discovered that she had she wishes. She was horrified when she discovered that she had actually caught up with her attackers vehicle. Chasing like what am I gonNA do? Now though. What's the next step colored car now driving? Now now she was driving directly behind in all my God thankfully. She was able to make a friend's house and receive medical attention. The thirties have been unable to conclusively determine if he was actually the Connecticut River valley killer. So this motherfucker has never been found crazy. You'd think you'd get a plate. You're driving behind them. What else. Yeah why we were stabbed. You can hear clearly drinking water impro- Mascot when we go on tour she's coming with. Yeah if we ever comes with me she's revenue asking the car she loves it she fucking butthole thing like these no so she got worms when she was like six months and then she rubbed her assets dogs do and then I D- Wurmser and then ever since she just lean robs the fact that it is weird times it feels weird. It's I the fact that this virus even exist feels weird like it doesn't feel real to me really even though I think I know what is it just doesn't but it's I don't know it is. Yeah whatever the dude ler the doodle or did you learn that the same as the detailer now is the dude ler does. He draw people's faces after their fourteen deaths. Fourteen dead and three injured. The Dude Ler was active was active from January. Nineteen seventy four to September. Nineteen seventy five just a year in San Francisco Sometimes Skull. The killer would be woodstock homosexual men than like didn't like gays did he at the bars or he did are actually like them and he was suppressing his own feelings so he would sketch them then leave with them. So it's like. Hey Look what. I drew a baby boy. Let me get you quick. You have a beautiful child can I make caricature of you sitting on a golf cart playing golf with your friends? I'd want to see a character game so these would be found stabbed however by the time he's victims have been found their bodies were beginning to decompose so he had a game dude. Ler Good fucking police to hide people. Men like which is Kinda blows my mind. Was it out in San Francisco. No I mean. Where was he hiding them? You dummy in his own asshole. I'm just I don't fucking know it doesn't tell me that we're not getting the full fucking. He's curious if you really want to do that. You just made it so interesting. I know we're washing. That trump gets a family vacation place. The Saul Guy. Oh Shit yeah got plays the Saul Guy. I love that guy. This is actually a good move. You should watch it tonight. Actually we're going to Redo it. You ought to okay. We're GONNA watch the volume on the dude. Got His name from his sketches of his victims. That will be drawn upon meeting them. So like which is extremely creepy. But he's the dude you will do. Calgary's unknown serial killer. Let's get Canadian Shit Canonical why we always say because Canadians. Pylons on their fucking boarder Calbury might have a serial killer on his hands since the early nineteen nineties and many of them prostitutes fucking hooker makes it easy where staff and beaten to death and let them shallow grave in an around go gary. It started with Jennifer Johns who was found on August nineteen ninety-one two more women were found the same area over the following months. The next two victims were murdered nationality to ninety three left in fields. And they are infused east to Calgary so it was east of Calgary. Okay if there was one killer. He was active between nineteen ninety. One nine ninety three but seems like he disappeared afterwards. Common theories in this situation says that he may have died like homeboy fucking original night stalker or when to prison on related chart unrelated charge. But it's also possible that he simply moved and maybe just maybe killed people somewhere else and one a one plays per state. So that's why it gets muddled say the waters get muddled at this point because say he did move to another providence providence. Or say he moved anywhere else or a different city or small town and then somebody disappears. It just kills them. Embarrassment a very good spot or does something with the body. He got smart with it. You know what I mean. Then they don't really know where he could be blamed on. Earth has its own possible serial killer as an active since nineteen ninety-seven and could be responsible for upwards of a dozen murders so there so that's what I'm saying. He's in Calgary murdering all this and then he moved to Abington in that same province and like goes to for other people and that's a ways away like Calbert Edmonton's since about five hours. Yeah Yeah it's got to drive like that's a little bit of Burda. Yeah Yeah it's not like Gary Evans Five. Yeah I've been since real north. Albert is pretty fucking big when it comes to all the candidate has many we're so all the provinces are super long -tarian quebecers any of really. Kovic Shit because they chose a shutout earlier the menu. It's that's not. Why is because they're fucking out there in the snow and they're like it's because of population of them out of my way? I've won every seven thousand Leones asking Alaska fucking bullshit. I'm sorry guys in the states. But how the fuck you own Alaska on our fad sewer fucking land. Yeah that's Horse. Shit where we have a last. Who wants to fucking lived in the first place? I don't know who you know what they've got a really good trade from that. I'm not to breast up I remember sitters got it. Had to have been commissioned originally and we had two trees about this show. They'll ahead I must have been a good trade like we must have got something good for like the natives trading for land because they had a good trade not for them when the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the RCMP launch. Task were called Project Care with a K. In two thousand and three quick little impact in the middle of that the RCMP is only Manitoba Westwards Ontario Quebec and anything eastern does Are you sure you only are some The Romance Police are throwing the mountains. Manitoba's number tactically like the FBI of Canada. Or they're not though there are not i. Guess what I got way. It's not though because they have the same jurisdictions the PPO Ontario our province we know have a conspiracy luminosity bullshit as much of the states does and other countries like Britain like fucking Scott Linney whereas newer were newer. But we don't have like numerous. Oh No can't who was essentially yeah formed years later became new was found the exact same time. Is the state's round there yes? It was the forerunner I boats arrived like in Nova Scotia back in the day. Both of us The states and Canada Canada wasn't really founded and clarified his candidate until like the seventeen hundreds founded. So I guess. Kinda close states was founded in seventeen seventy six and the seventy seven and then I ended in eighteen six so it was like one hundred years later. People still here living or they're fired as so the police. They called upon this project of care with a K. Were PRETTY HARD. I know. He became the main targets. One main targets that they had but so far the RCMP was never able to identify improve of the killer. Actually even existed people now think that the prostate killings in Edmonton from nineteen ninety s to the early two thousands could be tied the exact same murderer and the city in the late eighty s could be realistically timeframe adds up. You'd want to flee right. Yea Town around. And if you've got money say you're somebody of your social paths and serial killers are sometimes a lot of times are smart intellectual individuals. But you know I was thinking Gary which we should like data Gary Ridgway. Someone who wasn't intelligent. But you can wash that fucking whole thing on Netflix. That he got away with murders for years and killingly process going highways. And Shit like that. And Gary Ridgway had an intelligence of a peanut like it wasn't like he had a big super smart or there is a lot of people that killed a lot of things like ass burgers makes you smart though. Wab sometimes not only that. But also if you look into some of Calgary's killings that Calgary Calgary killing how Gary Calgary they're not ruling out any possibilities that this one person could be responsible for multiple murders in both cities but he has never been frowned. No one honorable mention. We add the Santa Rosa hitchhike murderers over the course of the next seven years. One unknown killer murder Lee seven women and dumped their naked bodies into the creek bed. Just joking soup but billions if I saw Brad Pitt. Naked on the side of a creek bed. He caped call the police. I have five minutes jerk off and Brad. Pitt's face before the cops come fucking awesome story. That'd be like I came. Pitt's face a good story. Murders began in Marin Sterling in whatever that bitches name is marine sterling and a husband wave and Yvonne Awebber to twelve year old middle. School students may not together went missing. After visiting the Redwood Empire Ice Arena so say Skating Rita on February nine. Hundred Seventy two. The skeleton remains were discovered ten months later off remote road north of Santa Rosa. These theories that may be Ted Bundy had been responsible for the killings but the Santa Rosa hitchhiker murders have also tied to the Zodiac Killer. And the Hillside stranglers. Both and they'll start strangling. It'd be actually really fun episode. It's fucking weird and fucked up and they're straining people with panties look thinking of but we have Ragmar's we'll have an episode coming up. Eventually down the windpipe we do have a mass killers episode. We mentioned the Zodiac. But I would like to give the Zodiac alone by himself to get into As being used fun fact you motherfucker. We'RE GONNA test Tom. Serial Killer Knowledge Tom. What is the most prolific modern serial killer saying that? Who has the most records for kills a serial killer? I'm talking individual killer. I'm not talking about a queen or Hitler talking about a fucking murder by himself. No the states are no world in this. I will say Oh. I've never heard you want say this guy's name the Russian guy. Fuck actually doesn't say where he's from. I don't know what what continental's Franck Wake Andrea tickets. Hello I'M GONNA. How many did Andre Tickets over a hundred? They think. Well this guy's doubled? What's his name? Harold Shipman Oh ship killed people with needles FUCKING FAIRA DOT COM and he killed four hundred or some bullish on two hundred and eighteen. Proven murders proven. He's a doctor right. I don't know I see a dog. I believe you just said I don't buy it could be as many. It's not even Yeah medical professionals. Yes so Dr. But anyways can't get comfortable but hey it's two hundred and eighteen or proven. Yeah but the only have. How many has he actually no not that many more? They believe it's only be as much as two fifty so it's only thirty identified to eighteen proven. Just weird because you actually told me you. WanNa get into Andre Sometime. I remember saying you definitely. I'd probably did at one point. Well that was a fun fact. You've ever better one for the next episode so stay stay. Stay at home. Get your groceries and shit like it's weird one more one more quick sidebar. One I bet town because we speak Tibetan earlier at Tom. Does Not Grand Slam is when you hit it over the fence. Right that is I would assume so. Okay all all the players on every mount home right on the mounts demand. I don't fucking spirits joking where it's everyone goes home right. That's where you should be staying motherfuckers. We flatten his goddamn curve before Donald Trump's hair it's fucking worse and if you guys are wondering around the right now to the fucking shit in the states do not let Joe Biden fucking wind. He is a fucking serial killer rapist. Piece of Shit. Please do not think that Joe Biden is better than trump. Let's go Bernie Sanders. He dropped out too. I liked him promise. Ps Four turns for all the younger brother he dropped out. But I'm saying like don't have Joe Biden Joe Biden is fucking thousand times worse than trump. I would rather see and I don't even live there. Hillary fucking kill Clinton to fucking be the president rather joe by that happened. If you're I we all love you. Stay safe please. If you want to wear a mask where some that's fashionable whereas whereas where fucking mask you better have corona virus because it looks like you do know because it's not for you men that doesn't help you at all does it doesn't help you there's other polls your body like your ears and your fucking nose you say you get raped by the corona virus. Don't please don't kisses man. I show reserved fucking got crushed. Only knows always when you killed yourself sound. Is this how you want to be remembered? Still Tender Ladder Company forever could batter. Girls downpours the final miles away. See Dot in the right space at my brain torn approach Saturday. Killing talk. Radio wanted built around one. 'cause they're people that love you there? You Guys Lost Sick. Mind Games of violence. Is this another stone? I hit miles away when knowledge is your face and I'm not in the riot had space a brain.

murder Tom Thomson Atlanta Joe Biden Ritchie Ramirez Calgary Jeffrey Dahmer Richard Ramirez Frankford Donald Trump Jose Cuevas Kane Shit Ramirez Hitler Bruce Macarthur Connecticut River Valley spotify Charles Manson Canada Charlie Chop
Parliaments back  and so is Party Lines

Party Lines

24:31 min | 6 months ago

Parliaments back and so is Party Lines

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis this season on uncover. DC see this is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast this is a podcast? Hey everybody I'm Rosemarie Barton. Ella mean and this is party lines we are back. I missed you so eh every Thursday. We're now going to take you through the biggest political stories of the week. Here's the thing we've been gone for a minute. So those kind of piled up a little a little bit load like just a few things like Oh. I don't know a throne speech. A Cabinet Shuffle Andrew. Scheer said he's going to step down as leader from conservatives whole bunches happen and that's just twenty one thousand nine. It doesn't even cover the the last few weeks. I don't know what we were thinking to any time off at all. That is entirely bad. However we're going to fix it now let's catch up because we're gonNA start with what's going to happen? This problem is back is Justin Trudeau's first real go at this whole minority government thing kicking off everything with the new math all right. Let's get into it do it. Okay so if parliament did reconvene Before the Christmas break break But it was very brief and not much was able to be accomplished. This is now a big long run for this first minority government for Justin Trudeau to try and get some things done to test itself a little bit to see what kind of leader Justin Trudeau is in a minority parliament situation and the the first piece of legislation is perhaps not surprisingly a move to ratify. The new NAFTA Does that I guess that sort of makes sense right right. I mean if you're going to start minority government situation. You're going to start with sort of an easy win in this case so the US government is already ratified the new Nafta which we haven't settled on what we're going to call it who smoke or or the ties that bind us all or whatever the name we have for suggestion. I with new NAFTA I can't I can't stand that other one right. Yeah no I can't handle it either. But whatever the new Nafta is they just has to get it through parliament here and it's not like most of the parties are terribly opposed everything that's in it so password. They're starting with their starting with something that they see is sort of an easy political victory back. Yeah and and there is some pressure to get it done given that Donald Trump signed the US west version of this this week so we are the last country to do it and as you say we need to do it. It doesn't seem like the opposition is putting up much of a faucet the end EP. He has some issues around Labor provisions. And just the fact that they don't feel like they've studied it enough. The block has some issues around particularly Aluminum aluminum workers given that. That industry is concentrated in Quebec but the Conservatives have made it pretty clear that they are trading a a free trade party. They want to support this and they want to get it through so I think it's just a matter of time rather than whether or not it happens right. I mean I guess just from a practical level opposition's GONNA opposition thing they're going to do is say org. Well hold on a minute. We need to look at this in committee and have a bunch of conversations. But I don't think there's a real worry that the NAFTA's not going to be ratified at any point. However we've seen a few groups are Canadian Chamber of Commerce grain? Growers Lowers the Cattleman Association. which I don't know why they're not called the Cattleman Cattle Women Association saying that they push through as quickly as possible I have? I mentioned that I missed you. I'm glad you're back. No one talks like that here. I gotta say it's very yeah anyway. Anyway I'm I'm relieved to be filling this role okay. Good Yeah So. It's all going to get done. That peace will get done but there has been of late some questions in the media and by pundits about what really else the government is going to do. I think some of the criticism. Frankly has been a little unfair For a couple of reasons first of all I think minority governments always have to tread a little slower than a majority. Can't just sort of run roughshod with your legislative slative policy agenda because you have to you know see where you can get compromised and negotiate and that of course there have been some outside events that have have sort of slowed things down. We'll get to those in a moment moment right. I mean the thing that sticks out for me. Is that the throne speech which is where where the government outlined their priorities. I was back in December fifth. That was eight or nine weeks ago. they were elected a month before that. So yeah. The Christmas break happened but They still appear to be kind of low gear. The House might might be in low gear over the Christmas break. But that doesn't mean the government is like when I try to think back to when they won in two thousand fifteen liberals in two thousand fifteen like in the month after he got elected they got going on bringing back the the census they got going on resettling the Syrian refugees in the country. But we're three months after election and they're just moving very very slowly. Yeah and I think that that an and correct me if you if you think I'm wrong but I don't think I think there is a recognition and that that being a blazing fire after a minority mandate maybe wouldn't work like wouldn't work well for the many many Canadians who didn't vote for them. Wouldn't work well for the opposition parties. Who are going to as as you say opposition? I like we should get that on a t shirt and they have to do do things with all those things in mind and I do think and much smarter people than I have written about it but I do think that the prime minister is trying to be a different different kind of leader. This time round doing you say that. But I think he's just trying to be less of the centerpiece of the one thing that sticks except for the Liberal Safaris. It'd be a lot more a lot less rather a lot less trudeau centric but what happens when your entire sort of center Andrew is gone is like everyone was like well. Where is the government would have they been up to I mean there are other things that they will have to do. within the next Month or two they will have have to respond to the court decision on medically assisted dying because the court has basically said. You're not really you haven't really gone far enough. In order order to you. Know protect everybody and make sure that they all have access to this. So they're now looking at expanding it to include things like mature minors Advanced I request so saying that you want to die before even get near there and people who have mental illness those are all parameters around medically-assisted dine that may now be expanded in in this new legislation. So it's not as though there's there's nothing there I think it's just a different pace and a different approach. And when you've seen government in action for four and a half years or whatever and they changed fairly dramatically I think that can be disconcerting. And people probably still trying to figure that out are certainly expected. Awesome to be like Brash. Yes pushing forward things but you know I actually would've expected that they'd move a little bit quicker on certain topic topic areas like for example farmers. NDP saying that they're just going to table legislation to push through Pharma care as quickly as possible and that's because the liberals at the moment don't have a timetable for when they're going to introduce it I think they are also waiting to see how conversations with the provinces were expecting a meeting with them I Dunno sometime in February or March Because the provinces have have put down some clear lines as well which is sort of what happens in minority governments. Right people. Start to Feel you like to have a little more leverage to get what they want. But but can I turn us to the other things that have happened as well. That that mean that the government has had to not just focus on a legislative agenda that you know people can quibble about how Substan- of it is but to govern to to make decisions for Canadians in in difficult. Oh places so whether that be the downing of PS seven fifty two in Iran whether that be corona virus. There's a lot going on that. These people have to manage manage right. I mean especially with the Ukrainian plane. I would say that very few people have been criticizing the way that true handled that and in fact he was sort sort of a steady handling that led Iran. Do sort of make that stunning admission that yes in fact they did shoot down the plane. Very few people expected such an admission to come and I saw at least a few opinion pieces in the globe mentioning credited Trudeau's diplomacy with with with getting that admission and I think that Corona Virus Novel Corona Virus. I think is the name that we're using for it. has has now added another sort of dimension two things they have to handle title in the immediate and when sort of extreme threats or disasters or or what have you happen. The whole of government sort of focuses. It's attention on how they can help with those things whether it be you know getting Canadians out of China treating cases here figuring out how how they coordinate with the rest of the world. Those are all really complex issues. That many many different departments of dealing with so it's not an excuse per se but it is I think thinking explanation for why people are are busy just busy doing other things so when I think about that and then I think about sort of this week opening with the new Nafta data that gets you good headlines gets you good conversations right away but there isn't really anything coming up in the pipeline after it so I I'm surprised they're not anxious to look like they're doing a lot at least in terms of like brokering compromises or advancing a bunch of legislations that a bunch of parties agree on. What do you think? Yeah I think maybe they're testing the water to right if if you as you said Nafta sort of an easier Piece of legislation to put in the pipeline. Knowing in that it will go okay. They're probably WANNA see how that unfolds and and you know. The even parliamentary committees. Were a lot of this work gets done. They're only getting started started this week. So there's a lot of the mechanics inside parliament that haven't really been put in place that are needed in order for legislation to go ahead so this might not the pace that we're used to seeing from the liberal government but maybe this is the way they've chosen to operate in a minority government. Maybe they've decided to take Kamar time in the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady Eighty went missing. She had a very Very Distinctive Silhouette and very recognizable. When you'd see you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street? All police could find where her thirty cats shot dead. I always knew something happened to her to vanish like that. Uncover the CAT lady case from. CBC podcasts. Let's talk about the thing. I desperately WANNA talk. which is hey rosie? I have a big question. Yeah why doesn't anyone. At least with a recognizable indictable name want to lead the Conservative Party. Are you saying Peter. McKay is not a recognizable. Get One get one but you know. Let's actually it's easier to talk about who is not running in this race and it is who is running ambrose in that running Caroline Maroon. He's not running Pierre. Paul is not running. Brad Wall is not running please. Rate is not running John. Baird is not running Josh. Yes I'm just I'm just. I'm standing in the studio and I'm just shouting names of all these people who are I'm not running and you would think with this long standing tradition of calling the the leader of the opposition in minority government a prime prime minister in waiting. You think the big names would be just champing at the bit to run the Conservative Party but they are not quite lining up to do. So what do you. What do you think is going on there? I think they're waiting for Stephen Harper to come back no joke. That rumor went around last week and I almost fell off my chair. It's not. He was polling. Well he's probably a month ago he's polling well on my twitter feed to you but I think it is curious I I will give you that because because not only is it as you say a government in waiting but it's also a party that is still very successful One more seats in the last election that it did in the one before has tons and tons of money You Know I. It's it's doing fine like it's it's not as though they need a leader who's GonNa have to come and and retool and and renew the party in the way the Justin Trudeau had to in fact when when he was made Liberal leader so the challenges aren't really they're so then what what could it be. Could it be that. Some people are not convinced that the next time round there's a guaranteed and win Do you WanNa take a job where you might have to sit in on the sidelines for a little longer than expected. I mean that that's sort of the only calculation relation I can think of the Calculus is actually about you know trying to decide what the Conservative Party is about. Sure in the sense that They it's been a few years square. The party hasn't had to have that conversation sort of inwardly and I think he's been more necessary now because After the twenty fifth defeat after the two thousand nine hundred results there's pretty clear indication that there are regions in the country where they are just not resonating. And they're doing great in western Canada They're not doing that well. Everywhere else and you would think that you would have some names especially ambers who was sort of seen as the unofficial leader of the field before. She said that she was not entering. Would be interested in defining with that. Next era of Canadian conservatism might actually look like That that's an interesting conversation to me. It sounds like an interesting challenge. So I'm so curious. Why all these big names would would say no? No thank you not this time around. Yeah I I mean I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I mean the last election looked a whole lot still like Steven Harper's party not only the policy ideas as we talked about through the election podcasts. But but even the way they were approaching certain issues Social Conservative issues for instance. So there was never any time between Stephen. Stephen Harper and Andrew Scheer to have a conversation about what the party is. And what it wants to be this. You would think would be the moment to do that. You lost an election. Then you've lost a leader. There are lots of questions about how far he went or didn't go on certain issues. So we use this as an opportunity to do some self examination and the Conservatives that I'm talking to here agree with what you're saying. They they think like this is it. This is our moment to start talking about these things and decide side. Are we a party. That believes in climate change and want serious platform or plank on climate change. Are we a party. Who as we saw this week with all the main contenders are okay with leader? Walking at pride parade those are the kinds of conversations most conservatives Dina want to have. They want this commander. I'm just not sure it's going to happen if you only have a very small group of well known candidates right and to that end. Let's talk about who those candidates are the biggest names are we mentioned Peter Mackay of course. He's the heavyweight in the race. One of the founders of the Conservative Party he also. I used to be administered Justice Minister National Defense. He's held a lot of titles and he's got national profile. There's also Erin O'Toole Ontario he He ran in the two thousand seventeen leadership race and he finished third in that and Those are the big names. Yeah Candice Bergen is said to be reportedly thinking thinking about going into it but I'm reportedly thinking about going to the gym so I don't know who who's to say. How much weight as you give that until someone announces something yeah? Maryland glows in. I'm glad she's in D-. Please take that out. So those are those are the names of the people people who are running and aside from Peter Mackay I haven't heard a lot from from conservatives who say that. They're excited about this field. Yeah I think that's fair. I mean there's a whole bunch of other. There's sort of marginal candidates Who have not filed paperwork? Who may not be able to raise the initial twenty five thousand dollars? We'll talk more about this process on leader podcast because it would take us thirty minutes but So the these are sort of those names you mentioned three serious contenders to current. MP's and one who not only wasn't MP a cabinet minister but was also the CO founder of this the party With Stephen Harper so clearly has a vested interest but there does seem to be a lack of energy within the party about the choices before them and that's not to say that they don't think that the people there are valuable able and interesting and could be a leader. It's that they have just come off a really difficult time When they when they lost the election and then grappled apple with some really difficult issues around Andrew Scheer and so you use leadership races to engage with your membership to present censure self to the larger electorate to raise money and if you can create sort of momentum and energy around that you might not actually succeed getting people able to take another look at us so I think that's where the concern comes from? I'm not saying that like Peter. Mackay won't suddenly get Super Interesting. He might could happen he he's got you know there's things happening but for now that does seem to be the perception that said like I don't know how much we should read into that D- do you like I don't know that that's I don't know that we should see it as sort of a doomsday moment for the Conservative Party. Maybe it just is going to Take a little bit. I mean you might. There's a deadline to announce to enter the races February twenty seventh. You've got another month or so to get some more people who might even energized afield more but but it seems to me like maybe the the proximity of maybe the proximity of being opposition and being close us to power in a minority government. Situation is kind of clouding judgment in the sense of prioritizing putting the leadership I when maybe what the Party needs is actually a policy convention to talk about what some of those policies that are working better connecting some of the policies that are not Because as it stands whoever gets elected and whoever becomes leader is going to carry forth sort of the same set of policies That Canadians were kind of like this. Just okay yeah. Yeah and I think that. That's where where this infamous John Baird Report Would have been useful so John Baird of course a former cabinet minister Federally and provincially. Now how out of politics entirely was asked by Andrew Scheer the current leader still of the Conservative Party to do a bit of post mortem so he went out and he talked to a bunch of candidates and then he talked to people inside the party apparatus about what went wrong in the last election and he gave them a report that said. I don't know what it's because. Yeah we've we've you know we've managed to dig up one or two lines But we don't really know what what he sort of and what. Everyone that he talked to said was this is the big problem other than maybe Andrea Sherr. So you would think that that report If it was more widely available to members and two elected parliamentarians that they would want to have a look at that and say Oh look at that you know Kate Etienne's don't like our position on XYZ but because we haven't seen it and because a vast is majority of the caucus and certainly the membership hasn't seen it. It's very hard for them to know. How do you push someone? What policy should you change? How should we evolve if you don't even have the test results from the last one and I think that's I think you're right? They need to talk policy. But how do you do it when you don't know. Oh exactly what failed you. Well See. This is where the sort of long running hero syndrome in Canadian. Politics comes into play and this has happened to every single party where they say. Hey Hey we are going to go into election soon. We really need a hero. We need this figure who is larger than life can come in. And maybe he'll be the face off almost often a he almost always a he and this is sort of appears to be Peter Mackay like not that he's going to be a coronation is just that there is a general sort word of agreement that he's the by far the heavyweight in the race and if and if they were to go into election if the minority if drew those minority government were to fall Canadians would at least go. Yeah I knew that is. which is? It's an easier problem to solve. I don't the most useful problems. No and they have to make a decision the conservatives I mean about not only who can represent them as a leader but as you rightly point out who could take down Justin Trudeau and those are sometimes not compatible audible notions right. The person who's the best potential leader for a party is not necessarily the person who can defeat the liberals. So it's it's a it's a conundrum but it's one we're gonNA talk about for many many many weeks. I love that. They've made it so exciting for US already. It's time for last call for this week. That happy noise of glasses clinking means it's time for you to weigh in before we let you go and because of what we were just talking about the Conservative Party raise. There have been questions this week about. Just how bilingual does a federal leader need to be. We didn't get into that. What's your take elamine? I mean the Conservatives won ten seats in Quebec if they want to be competitive in the province. They're going to presumably need a leader. Who can speak pretty decent French? Yeah that's sort of more of ver- official languages so you think that being able to communicate and they all sort of can at least the three top runners but Bilingual fluent those are all sort of up for debate so that I think what we want to put our last call out for this week. Do you think a federal leader should be bilingual. Treat US let us know I am at Alamein Eighty Eight. AM and an eight. And I'm at Rosie Barton. We now have a Hashtag. Isn't that exciting literally. HASHTAG party lines all right like they're coming up. Let's call it for this week. Thank you so much for listening to party lines from ABC News a CBC podcast. Iowa's Martin chief political correspondent. CBC nist catch that fancy new title tailed up to my mood. I'm not a chief of anything. However editor of news curation for Buzzfeed News? That means everything to me. See Back appear next week for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

Conservative Party Justin Trudeau Andrew Scheer Peter Mackay Stephen Harper US John Baird Rosemarie Barton prime minister Justin Louis Quebec Toronto DC NAFTA Bruce Macarthur Ella Gay village Donald Trump Iran
February 19: Begging his pardon

As It Happens from CBC Radio

48:47 min | 5 months ago

February 19: Begging his pardon

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis this season on uncover. Dc This is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever? Get Your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm carol off good evening. I'm Chris Bowden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition begging his part and the lawyer for Julian Assange says Donald Trump offered to pardon his client but only if he said Russia was behind the 2016. Us election leaks. Competition IS TOUGH IN GREATER TORONTO'S TOW truck business but after two drivers were shot in a parking lot. This week our guest warns it's become an increasingly violent turf wars. The root of the problem planned pipelines shoe at Soa ten territory continues to draw protests and debate across the country but our guest says the whole thing might have gone a different direction current events. He was out for a morning jog on the Irish coast when he first smelled gas from an abandoned ship drifting nearly six thousand kilometers from where it was last seen. Tak about aglow up. Scientists have figured out that if you put millipedes under UV lights their genitals glow and they're using that Intel to literally shed light on the creatures mating techniques and driving range. She thought renting a car she could unlock with. An APP would be a good idea until she lost cell phone service and got stranded in the middle of nowhere as it happens the Wednesday edition radio that knows. The sharing economy can be an absolute nightmare in London today in the midst of a dreary preliminary extradition hearing for Julian assange. His lawyer dropped a bombshell. He said he'd be presenting evidence that US President Donald Trump had offered the wikileaks founder. A pardon on one condition that Mr Assange say the correct things about where he got damning emails that were leaked during the twenty sixteen election. According to the lawyer the message was delivered by a former Republican congressman when he visited Mr Assange in two thousand. Seventeen Nico Hines as the London editor for the daily beast. We reached him in London. Mika can you tell us what are these new revelations that Julian assange is defense is presenting has presented today? Well it's still difficult to tell exactly what is going to be laid out in evidence because all we have today was pre trial hearing but in that trot pretrial hearing Julian assange lawyers have made the case that a message sent on behalf of Donald Trump came to Julian assange while he was ensconced in the Ecuadorian Embassy in central London offering him a potential pardon if he was to provide evidence that showed that Russia was source of those damaging emails from the Democratic National Committee which were leaked in the two thousand sixteen presidential election and where who is the envoy of this alleged offer from Donald Trump. I think this is what we do know. Exactly what happened? The person involved with Dana Rohrabacher. And who you may remember. It was a controversial California congressman a Republican and. He was sort of known by the nickname. Putin's favourite congressman. He at one point came back appearing to work on behalf of Russia in that he was campaigning and doing propaganda Erin and helping a Kremlin effort back in the era of the trump tower meeting within. Saudi I wish you may recall. I'm so he has been tied up with Putin for a long time and we do know that he came to visit London and he went to see Julian assange. The suggestion hair is he was carrying a message from trump. What is as DANA BACKERS CONNECTIONS WITH DONALD TRUMP? How close is he to the president? Well the there's just been a statement put out by the White House which claims much is happening. All of these cases they didn't know each other retool their daily ever spoken. I think the truth is not quite the same. Rebecca was always been a controversial figure but he's been someone who supported Donald Trump's agenda for longtime and they do seem to have had some shed interests. We know that from the Muller reports the special investigation into the Into the interference in the part of Russia into a political process the various intelligence agencies in the United States believe that Russia was the source of the the leak or the hack of that does Democratic National Committee e mails and so what is Julian assange said. Today as to what his source was or what wikileaks wikileaks source was what he previously has completely denied that the Russians had nothing to do with it. It's not clear WH- his current position will be out in court will be. I'm still waiting for the full. Hearing to take place begins next week. The in the past wikileaks have denied. They had anything to do with Russia that they were working on behalf of Russia in any way but if Julian assange has already denied or or or said no no that's not the source of the wikileaks information that the data that they had. So why would you? Why would would would erode? Backer even need to go and ask them to do that. Isn't that already what he is on the record saying it is but on the suggestion and the the there was a report a couple of years ago that Dana Rohrabacher was trying to broker some sort of deal between Sanjin trump and had an interview with the Wall Street Journal at the time. He did explain that that assange would only be able to get this pardon if trump agreed with it and and I should say to be clear at the time we didn't know how much trump was involved in that Suggested DEAL BUT WE'LL ROBECO was saying at the time was he would only be given the pardon if he could provide evidence which proved that it wasn't the Russians so so what they will back was suggesting to. Julian assange allegedly was that he come up with a dossier some sort of document which showed that information didn't come from Russia the hearing today or that's just begun is this is about an extradition request from the United States to have Julian assange go to the US to face eighteen charges Of of leaks of classified information from the from the United States is this part of our the DNC documents. Part of the leaks that he is wanted in the United States for having leaked most of the charges in the US relate to the previous leaks that were related to Chelsea Manning and the funny thing is that Julian assange was hiding out in the Ecuadorian Embassy for seven years and he was claiming all along the the only reason he went into the equity into the embassy was because there were charges came from Sweden related to alleged sexual assault. That happened over there A. Assange went into hiding claiming that he thought the US which try get hold of him if he were ever detained as soon as he was arrested when the Ecuadorians kicked him out of the embassy it did actually come to pass the US had got these charges on file from many many years ago relating to the Pentagon leaks which showed some wrongdoing which Chelsea manning has also served time in the US prison system for an indication. If doing assange actually entertained this. Offer that the the congressman brought That's a good question if you look at the interview. I mentioned earlier. That Rebecca did With the Wall Street Journal Robaka seems to be. Acting under the impression that he is going back to negotiate the deal with what house? Which would suggest if you think it through. The ascend had said he would go along with the plan. There's always another layer of intrigue when it comes to Julian assange isn't there. I think it's very difficult to take what he says at face value. Then that's the same with Dana Rollback. Uc According to a sandwiches lawyer Rollback said he was acting on behalf of trump. Who knows you've got three basically unreliable witnesses there a and it's very difficult to try and decide which of those three characters is telling the truth if they come up with slightly different versions of these events and we don't even know yet who is actually going to be the witness that that's going to present the story. Exactly he goes. Thank you bye-bye. Nego hines. Is the London editor for the daily beast? We reached him in London. There's a lot to consider when it comes to the coastal gasoline pipeline construction in northern BC. There's the apparent disagreement between elected and hereditary wetsuit and chiefs. There's the fact that ongoing rail blockades across the country are proving to be hugely disruptive. And the fact that that disruption is entirely the point. But one thing that's gotten lost in much of the coverage is that the office of the WET Soican had at one point offered up alternative route for the proposed pipeline one that at least some hereditary chiefs supported and one that coastal gasoline turned down we've reached out to both the Office of the wet. Sohan and coastal gasoline to ask about that alternative route. We haven't heard back so we asked the CBC's Andrew Kuriata to talk about it. He's been digging into that story and we reached him in Prince. George Andrew. First of all maybe you can say. What's the big difference between the pipeline? That's an issue today. And this alternate route. We've heard so little about If you look at the selective route from coastal gasoline it. Kind of a straight shot from Just south of Burns Lake to Kitimat whereas this alternate route just before Burns like it. Diverges GOES NORTHWARD? I going out towards the communities of Burns Lake Houston smithers and that's following an existing pipeline routes. And so that is the direction that the hereditary chiefs Through the office of the whatsoever ten proposed to coastal gasoline. Back in two thousand fourteen at least before we got to where we are today. But it's still travels to unseeded territory. Does it? Not that is correct but again the difference being that this fruit already has a pipeline is already a long sort of the heavily developed highway sixteen quarter where there are these communities as opposed to sort of irreplaceable cultural landmarks and rivers streams and other environmental areas. That are important to them and does this alternate route. Does it have support among the wet so attend to run the hereditary chiefs? The Band Councils. Where where's the actual support coming from? I for this route. Well it was proposed by. I said that's the office. Okay now. What the office of the woods so it is. It's a nonprofit that is governed by hereditary chiefs and it was set up after the Dell Court case Sort of recognizing the rights and title of What's so what's in over this piece of land in this territory and so it came from the office in their early talks with The Trans Canada group when they were talking about the pipeline so I can't say for sure that they would have wholeheartedly supported it but definitely there was more of a sign of support for taking that direction than taking the one. That's currently there and I do know That I just got a note from one of my colleagues Earlier this week that it looked like there was some talk about this from the elected Counselors as well. They had suggested possibly looking at this route. There was at least some interest from both elected and hereditary chiefs. We said in our introduction that we have reached out to both the office of the Soden and coastal gasoline to get their response to this. What what why alternate route wasn't accepted Neither has Has Given US anyone to talk to this point because we go to air And so is it possible. Though if this this alternate route had been accepted. Could we have possibly avoided the situation? We're now in its possible coastal gasoline. They didn't give me anybody to talk to either but they did Respond to some questions. I had particularly after the office of the Sultan provided me with a letter from two thousand fourteen sort of outlining. The reasons that this alternate route was rejected One of the big ones that people are paying attention to the costs. They say that it would have taken a a longer direction about eighty nine extra kilometres which would mean eight hundred million extra dollars. Construction plus consulting with other first nations as it moves into Territory up north that they haven't been consulting around one of the big ones is the diameter of the pipeline. The one that coastal gasoline is building is a forty eight inch one hundred and twenty one centimeter pipeline whereas the existing pipeline is about one quarter of that So it's possible that just from coastal gassing perspective this was a non starter. But what really comes through in these documents? Is that from the offices with certain and their hereditary chiefs perspective. This other. The one that we're on has always been a non starter and in two thousand fourteen. There is submission from the office of the. What's so what's in to. Coastal gasoline can to the Environmental Assessment Office here in British Columbia saying essentially that throughout this entire process that they'd been to up to that point they hadn't seen are a real desire on the part of coastal gas link to recognize the office of the whatsoever and the credit chiefs as the rightful rights. Titleholders holders to this land. And and that's what we're still hearing today but we know from the letters documents that you have you have shared with us is that there is an environmental assessment certificate that coastal gasoline has to proceed with the pipeline. They want to build. They lay out in their documents that they said this alternate route. Didn't work for all the reasons you've cited. Do you know that was independently confirmed that the alternate route was unacceptable? I don't know that it was independently confirmed and I don't know that it wasn't Environmental Assessment Processes as if anybody is just coming to a layperson is hundreds and hundreds of documents thousands of pages to go through. And that's another thing that came out and reviewing these old documents Just a sense that there's so many requests coming into these first nations groups asking for consultation and they're feeling just overwhelmed by the amount of technical information that they're being given a lot of it is just hoping that the company is telling the truth of this other route. Isn't there and again. There could be some other office. That's going out and checking and saying no this other alternate route doesn't work but again that's just beyond the scope of my knowledge. What degree though politically does this change? The conversation somewhat. If it's the the wood so ten have proposed an alternate route that they're willing to consider that it's not about shutting down. Pipelines is not about stopping the coastal gas link project from going ahead really about sit down talk to us about how we can both accepted Is is that? Is that fair to say that? Maybe this has been lost in the coverage of this of this The standoff it's possible. I don't know how much that could possibly change where we are today. If you have a company that says this is the only direction that we can and are willing and want to be able to build our pipeline and you have a first nation or a indigenous groups saying we will absolutely never allow a pipeline to go along this route. You're you're kind of in the same place we are today What would be interesting to see whether some other company would be able to take a slightly different approach in approaching The office of the Teri chiefs and saying choose a route for us to go through here. I think that would be the real test case to find out whether some other company was able to work with the office of the Sohan or the hereditary chiefs to find a route that would allow products to get to market. And we'll leave it there and like you. We will continue to seek out a comment from the wits oaten and from the company but thanks for speaking with US thank you Andrew. Curiosity is a reporter with the CBC in northern British Columbia we reached him in Prince George. And we've got an update on last night's interview with Serge Simon the grand chief of the Guinness A- Tugay Band Council who now says he may have spoken too soon. Carol spoke with the grand chief after he had suggested that to encourage dialogue it might be time for Mohawk protesters to suspend their railside occupations but grand chief. Simon wasn't able to take our call from his office. His suggestion had inspired some of those protesters to chain the building shut today. After further reflection grand chief Simon decided to officially eat his words. I made a an error. I guess in trying to I guess Bring some form of Good faith maybe wasn't the right timing not yet so there's still some things I need to be done. the OC MP must be withdrawn from The way the way to it then Nation and let the talks begin between the FEDS and And that nation. Well if the good faith that we're looking for begins with the RCMP withdrawing then. That's already a good step premier ago. today raise the possibility of the S. Q going in of Police Force being used to dismantle the the blockades if They aren't taken down suit Do you have a message for the premiere? Well Mr Premier Fancies himself a businessman? Well if the eyes of Of the international community are on Canada right now in Quebec. I don't think it makes good Financial Sense To Take that approach at this time end up in a situation of another It depends on The government's Like I said we don't have control over how things evolve premium comments today about maybe earning police to make it. Stop the blockades well The premier sure is He's got his reasons for doing it. I'm sure you've taken a lot of things into consideration. But I would urge the premier to to further. Think on it before he starts making more statements like that. Just like my own my own miss the that was fg. Anisa Tugay Grand Chief Serge. Simon speaking to reporters in Guinness to target this afternoon Kerry Paul and her partner had a great Valentine's Day weekend planned it involved. Beaches Ocean views hikes with goats. Their plans did not involve getting stuck at the side of the road. Toad stuck again and stranded for hours because of car-sharing APP who's unintentionally mocking slogan is get in go places Carey. Paul happens to be technology reporter with the Guardian us. We reached her in Oakland. California Carey. Can you just first of all walk us through how this car sharing APP called Gig car? How it works at least in theory right so it's pretty convenient. You just download the APP on your phone. And then upload I think a driver's license and some of your payment information credit card or debit card. And then you can just find on the map a car and unlock it with your phone and that drives away not just any car but one of their cars. Exactly Okay and so. How often have you used it? I'm I downloaded the In August and that probably is just forty or fifty times and Senate. I use it pretty often so no problems. No problems until now okay. What happened on this trip so on the Strip ended up going to a kind of remote area about three hours north of San Francisco and we ended up getting a bit stuck without cell service to update the car software. What we would what. Why does that matter so from what I can understand? And what Gig later explained to me. basically the phone unlocks the car using a combination of Cell Service and Bluetooth. So when you're out of cell range it can be difficult to unlock the car. Usually you can call Gig and have them remotely unlock it. But if you have been range out of self service for a long time they lose the ability to remotely to the car within. What happens when the when your car isn't able to talk to its owner Well in our case wouldn't start. We had gone down to the beach on a little HIKE ABOUT THIRTY MINUTES. And when we got back the car would not start. It said we didn't have a key. I guess because it couldn't sense that the cell phone which works with the key was near it so we call it a little gig. Ask them what to do. They said we had to be towed. We ended up waiting a couple of hours for a tow truck to come get us and there's a lot of confusion over where to toe. They useless car to get it to work. You have to talk to someplace with cell connection so the car can re a connection with its master. Yes exactly so. It had to be towed to an area with cell phone service so we initially had it towed to our AIRBNB because we had wi fi their thought that would be enough to start the car having our phones securely connected twenty five but it turned out it actually needed to be towed About thirty miles away to the nearest town of cell service so it did involve to tow trucks and a lot of time on customer service line. Okay so I understand you on the customer service lying on your cell phone correct. We had enough cell phone service to call customer service and get this figured out luckily because otherwise we would have been completely stranded but yeah they were unable to ping the car. Because I don't know I had an updated or thanked the software in twenty four hours. When will you finally able to get the GIG car to turn over Well We. I realized that we couldn't start the car at four PM on Sunday and it was about ten thirty pm by the time we got it started again but then the saga still wasn't over because we at that point it was you know eleven at night. We didn't want to drive. Reality is back to San Francisco in the middle of the night. We were both exhausted. Had No food so we decided to wait till the morning to drive home and it was just a big ordeal because we didn't know how to keep the car from dying again all right so you had hours of this ordeal to told tracks. At least how many phone calls more than twenty? It was a lot of back and forth. What does GIG car say about this? I mean there's a glitch in system or is it just a glitch in your experience or what I think it's a combination of issues. It is run by triple A.'s. So I think in general. They have pretty good roadside assistance. I've never had a problem before. I think in this case the combination of it being so remote I mean it's a forty mile stretch of land with no cell service and about one tow trucks serving the whole community there. So what Gig? Also told me is that they offer are F. I D. Technology Carts Zipcar and other car rental services where you kind of scan the card to get into the car. I mean we did get a statement from GIG car saying that they. Those are they deeply apologize. Fear experience they did mention this Gig card that you could get that Th this would get around this so could have avoided all of this. If you'd had one of those cards Inferior this card could have helped me avoid the situation. I think there are two issues without one. It also seemed to an issue with the software. And the carving unable to sink due to the lack of self service and I think the other issue here is that I'm a tech reporter. I'm a pretty savvy. I've used this APP Forty or fifty times as I said. I've never heard of this card. I know that they're going to start making it a bit. Clear that if you go anywhere out of town you should get one of these cards and advance but it does take two weeks to ship to your house so I think it's all with their you don't hop in and go advertising language so I think maybe that's why it's not so much on their website. Now you have encountered other people with similar experiences because you are reporter new. I know if this is just you and so what have you learned about other people's experiences? I spoke to one person who got stuck in Tilden Park which is just twenty minutes from downtown Oakland. They lost cell service and had to walk an hour and a half Another person said the same thing happened with the redwoods here in Oakland. So you don't have to go too far out of the city to get stranded with Internet connected car okay. So what's the moral of the story you know I wasn't trying to Slam Gig? Necessarily I just thought it was a funny situation that my Internet connected car had stranded me I think they handled it. Okay given the circumstances but yeah I think if you are driving a car that is powered by the Internet. There's always the risk is going to happen. I wouldn't go anywhere where you can't call a taxi or Newburgh to get out with the car like this in the end. I'll probably still use gigs because it's convenient but you know maybe to get groceries in my neighborhood and not Not to see redwoods Correct all right character you go. We got the got the lesson from that. Thanks for speaking with us. Thank you carry. Paul is a technology reporter with the Guardian us. We reached her in Oakland California. And you can find more about Ms Paul's ordeal on our website. Cbc DOT CA slash h For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover. We see this is happening. How can you not see this? Bay Suspected Serial Killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. Start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenty uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast. It's still not clear. Why exactly two men were shot in the parking lot of a shopping mall thornhill just north of Toronto but police say both of the victims are tow truck. Drivers both are in hospital. The shooter was masked and the police investigation will examine whether the shooting has anything to do with the turf war in the towing industry for the past eighteen months. The Tow truck world in southern Ontario has been embroiled in violence. Trucks have been set on fire last year. Two men with ties to the tow trucking industry were killed in two separate shootings and drivers have faced countless threats. Mark Graves is the president of the Provincial Towing Association of Ontario and the owner of a towing company in Thessaloniki. Antero near Sault Sainte Marie. That's where we reached him this graves. We have story of to tow truck drivers shot by a masked gunman in the parking lot of a shopping mall. What do you make of that? Very scary out there for two operators. And the general public with everything. That's going on right now when you heard this shooting had taken place. What were your thoughts and the problem with? The industry seems to be an escalating at an alarming rate and There's a lot of good operators out there and and companies that are afraid to be working in this industry. Now they told you that yes they have. What do people what do people need to say to you about what their fears? Are we have had Drivers and company owners have called US and said that. They're not working on provincial highways Doing accent calls and things. Because they're they're afraid of altercations. What can happen. And what are they talking allocations? And what could happen fighting over jobs being threatened and being physically abused I know some people have had people actually go to their house and threatened their families to idea. And what's what are they? What are they threatening? You do this or or else. What was suspended? You don't do anything you this is our area you don't you don't work here. These are turf wars. Yes Yeah you call that. What kinds of the spend some arson as well? Can you describe what you know is happened? Well there's a count of over thirty. I think around thirty five trucks burned in the last within the last year. It's not localized. It's throughout Toronto. And Hamilton area and different things so it's getting further and further out these many of these cases within southern Ontario but is it spreading to other parts of the province. It's definitely spreading out has. The market gets saturated. The people that are looking for the work are moving out to where they can find the work and If they can't move out then that's when aggression starts to move we've had a relatively mild winter and that leads to less work and less work means you've gotta work harder to get the jobs that are out there and the business model of chasing does not give you customers that you that you work with on a daily basis. There's a good chance you'll never see the person again. Once you've dealt with their vehicle so the fact that it's been a mild winter mean it means there been fewer accidents and less business that does lead people to this idea. The impression they have of the of the businesses being predatory it can be so. There's more and more tow truck drivers as well as less and less work that what's going on. Yes there's more equipment on the road than than there has been for years. There's a lack of regulation within the industry. There's there's zero regulations so I could literally hand you a set of keys right now for a tow truck and you could go toll. There's no training requirements. There's no standard. There's nothing in the province. You're working in the Palette you may have to have a municipal license but outside of that working on the king's highways you you can do. It's a free for all. Do you have any suspicion that organized crime might be involved in this violence? I've heard that sad but I don't have any proof of it. It's been a number of pretty good bits of journalism down. The Global Mail did an investigation this weekend and Described that it's no secret and industry that drivers get a kickback from body shops and rehab clinics in exchange for bringing them customers. Do you know about that. There's certainly the potential that that happens. I can happen in any industry and if there are kickbacks happening through you know what they mentioned is physiotherapists and chiropractors and stuff. That's not just a towing industry problem. That's obviously a a professional industry problem too with the doctors who are running their own practices in that manner on the other side within the industry. You can look on youtube and download an APP and you can get paid for telling people where accidents are if they get the accident. Then there's a potential for you to get paid hundreds of dollars and that's just not right either. Do you think that that says I was kickbacks? Contribute to this turf war I think everything has a has merit in it as far as what causes it. I don't think there's any one major problem. I think it's a combination of everything that is helping to move this escalation of Of Harm to people to extreme levels found this shooting this Over these past few days you've had this a seventeen year old had since stable condition. A thirty year old is in critical condition. What are you hearing from other tow truck drivers about Knowing that there are these people that Had this close shave on the weekend. The overall feeling is there. There are more and more legitimate companies and operators out there that are avoiding going to specific areas just to avoid getting into any type of conflict may cause them harm as an industry leader. What what are you? What do you say to them? Well you know I. First and foremost is be careful out there and And you know as as as industry professionals and we're working with the With the provincial government On ideas and provincial licensing mandate that would that has the potential to curb a lot of this. So you're telling them to be careful out there when this is these are people who are out there on the highways that are part of a system supposed to be keeping US safe but is there. There is no system. Oh they're like the towing industry is supposed to keep the motoring public safe. Yes but there's no system to keep the actual towers safe from other tours outside of Regular Highway Traffic Act and criminal code in which case the police are investigating this stuff and hopefully they catch the perpetrators concern about where there's violence might be going. Well at the rate that it's been escalating we're we're very concerned that That more people are going to get killed and And hopefully there's no innocent bystanders. It's very dangerous out there. The industry itself is dangerous. Just just in the fact that we're working and and high-traffic and and And a lot of the motoring public isn't aware of what we do on the side of the road Adding this internal conflict just adds to the chaos that much more to their new guy that you got to hook somebody up and get them off the road and what you have to watch your back the same time same time. Yes thank you thank you. Mark Graves is the president of the provincial towing association -Tario we reached him in Thessaloniki Ontario. And you can find more on that story on the as it happens website. Cbc DOT CA Slash A. I H saw off. He spent eight years in prison and his signature. Lush Mane of hair has turned from dark brown to completely gray but Rod. Blagojevich is now a freeman the former Illinois governor has returned home after US President. Donald trump commuted. His fourteen year prison sentence for pay for play charges yesterday today Mr Blagojevich stood outside his Chicago home alongside his wife and two daughters. And if you remember him you won't be surprised to learn. He spoke at great length about his ordeal. He discussed his time in prison and thanked the president for bringing him home and he began by offering the crowd and apology as he dabbed his blood chin. A Long Journey. I'm bruising I'm battered. I'm bloody it's been a long time since I've shaved with a normal razors and It takes a little practice. I'm sorry about that. I gotTA keep dabbing blood It's been a long time since I've been home nearly eight years nearly three thousand days. I'm returning home today from a long exile. A free political prisoner. I want to say again to the people of Illinois who twice elected me governor. I didn't let you down. I would have let you down if I gave into this. I spent my first thirty two months in prison nearly three years behind. What the inmates call the razor wire barbed wire fence. The buildings behind that fence for the inmates live in sleeper squalid places. They're cold and dark like tunes. They were about nine hundred inmates. They're drug dealers cartel members gangbangers bank robbers. That were meant. They were committed murder con artists a lot of sex offenders about two percent of the population when the so-called white-collar category for most of my time there. My home was a six foot by eight foot prison cell. I slept on the top bunk often late at night I would look through that window and pass those bars out into the night sky and I think at home I think of my children. I think Patty sometimes sometimes I could almost feel her near me. I was just ignore. I would say to myself one day. One day I'll make it back to you and hold your hand sweetheart substance and I will remember. What a gracious thing. It's been to walk through life with you. Thank you for way that's former Illinois. Governor Rod Blagojevich speaking today outside his Chicago home with his wife and two daughters. Mr Blagojevich was released from federal prison after US president. Donald trump commuted his fourteen year. Prison sentence Berry McDonald was out for a jog. The other morning not far from his home on the south coast of Ireland when he came across something he was not expecting something very large and creepy and smelly we reached Barry McDonald and may town Ballycotton Ireland. All Right Mary. You went out for run. And what was the first thing you notice? That was out of the ordinary when I got to usually start my run car park and Park my car and when I got out of the car I noticed a strong smell of diesel fuel oils. I had a look around. Couldn't see anything that could cause it so I just continued on on my run out the cliff now not pleasant. Tha Snow though for your run. When did you discover what was producing the smell about two hundred yards out along the cliffs just over my right shoulder? The vessel came into view on the other side is a little bay on the other side. Just I would on the rocks the vessel Kim interview sit in milk high on on the shore but been in fact by the big waves. That were out that day. I couldn't believe the vessel being what the vessel find so presumptively is the the vessel Alta A. L. T. A. It's a seventy seven meter cargo vessels and you see this enormous ship. But what when your mind about what might be on it. I couldn't understand them. I'm Monday the ballycotton lifeboat here. Which would be normally launched in for a rescues and we haven't been launched the night before at the check my page or does he had a gun off and I missed it and so when I found out I had missed the pager and the Patriots haven't gone off presumed that the coastguard helicopter had competed a rescue earlier in the night or the day before and the vessel was just left on the shore. Because I couldn't believe that I was the first person to see it and didn't appear to be anybody on it so there was no one around it so I just assumed everybody was gone off the rescue been done so it was only when I got back to my car. Later I Renting a friend of Mine Peter. Who's The mechanical life boss? I asked him had he heard any voters and he said he couldn't so at that point then I rang our coastguard in Valencia. And I said there's a large ship two miles west of Ellicott on the rocks. And so did you just this describe it. I can see. I've seen some videos and photographs. Extrordinary sort of rocky. Shoal that it's gone up on this. Where is exactly? This ship has gone to ground. This chip is on the west side of a little inlet called belly andrine. It's a little small rocky shore with a little beach on us on the western shore is Iraqi. Goes out to a point quite a dangerous point. If you're at C- called the scar scope and a just nestling behind the scurr on the under the cliffs sitting there I would got in there. It was amazing right up on the shore that it's not listing it all doesn't appear to be damaged just sitting up there almost as expect someone to work on the deck it does. It does get close you can see. The damage has happened since we're sitting on the rocks and when you get close to would you see it's a bit rusty or one of the crane says collapses hanging over the side. What have you learned since about the Alta about this ship? Well a quick Google search result that the vessel had been abandoned off from you some thousand miles east of Bermuda a year and a half ago the crew of ten were taken off by the United States. Coast Guard and Dropped back to Puerto Rico and the vest and then drifted around various supports and alleged instance with pirates which are unsubstantiated at the moment onto September. Last the British navy came across it somewhere in the mid Atlantic Approached is solid was empty. Took a few pictures and and let the Sun. Merry way tonight spotted Sunday morning open. The rocks Two Miles west of two two miles west of Ballycotton And and so for eighteen months this ship. This cargo ship has just been drifting around and was able to stay afloat. Do you know if there's anything on it. No I'm are coast guard and are a car. County Council the local hard to hear have been investigating the last couple of days and the funny got on board and they've established. There is no cargo on us and only a small bit of fuel in the field tanks and a couple of drums of various lubricants oils and things. So that's the status of the moment and I just ended. They had the. The crew had been very low on food before they are rescued. So not even something for a few rats to fight over. I guess I don't think so. Yeah I saw. I saw some pictures of the the American coastguard. Perhaps we're dropping food onto them so yeah I haven't heard reports of anything found on it anyway. Already evidence of any creatures or anything so yeah doesn't not even a rapid say now the the this empty vessel is called a ghost ship and it's the which they call abandoned ship so does that name the Alta. Does it seem fitting given this eerie seeing that you encountered on your run your certainly It was certainly kind of a strange and confusing situation to see such a large ship just sitting up on the rocks and no-one around it or having not heard about it. I just I just kind of incongruous. I couldn't I couldn't figure it out. I was kind of when I walked away. I was wondering did I really see it? You know and with somebody. Now take the ghost ship away. Yeah well that's to be established as the winter the owner is going to try and salvage or whether the owner can be found and if the owner doesn't come forward I think it'll be left to the states to To to move it or salvage away and so hopefully that's what would happen no matter what what does seem very appreciate speaking with you. Thank you no problem. Thanks a lot have good evening. Thank you Barry. Mcdonald is a crew member with the Royal National Lifeboat. Institution a nonprofit group that rescues people off the coast of Ireland and Britain. He was in May town ballycotton Ireland for decades. If you were a scientist studying millipedes you had a problem you couldn't figure out exactly how they procreate it because however carefully you watched them knocking their hundreds of boots something got in the way and that's something was their legs now really for nearly eighty years. Scientists biggest impediment to understanding millipedes. Sex was a lot of little impediments. Their legs were obscuring. Everything says Dr Patrick sear walled one of the authors of a new paper on how the gross things in your basement get intimate last year though. Abrek through Dr Pierre. Wald's work revealed that millipedes exo skeletons glow under ultraviolet light and their genitalia. Do as well. This discovery was like tiny genital shaped lightbulb. Going on because now. They could use ultraviolet light and high tech cameras to capture every element of millipedes intercourse which they did and get ready because it is sexy the male ejaculates a bluish fluid from the testes behind his second pair of legs then inserts it into the female using his seventh Ringo. No they locked together. The female then seals up her genitals with a viscous secretion which traps the sperm. And when she lays her eggs that stored sperm gets on them which completes fertilization. I know spicy and this enormous mystery was only solved because ultra-violet light makes their tiny genitals gleam which means today the millipedes and the scientists are all basking in the afterglow. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. And I'm Chris help for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Donald Trump US Julian Assange Toronto CBC Cell Service Russia president London California reporter GIG car congressman Dana Rohrabacher trump wikileaks Oakland Governor Rod Blagojevich Nico Hines Bruce Macarthur
February 18: Closed-door negotiations

As It Happens from CBC Radio

49:44 min | 6 months ago

February 18: Closed-door negotiations

"For years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis. This season on uncover e C. This is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever? Get Your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm carol off good evening. I'm Chris Bowden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight. Closed door negotiations. A MOHAWK chief suggested protesters stopped blocking the trains instead. They started blocking his door base of isolation after spending two weeks cooped up on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. A Canadian permanent resident resets the quarantine clock this time on a military base in California Scout's dishonor facing hundreds of sex abuse lawsuits. The Boy Scouts of America has filed for bankruptcy. One former scout. Says this will make it easier for him. Another victims to finally get justice helping a guy out. A homeless man crawled into a garbage bin for safety and warmth got trapped and spent two days inside until our guest came along. He led his words speak for themselves. Author Charles Portis. Who wrote the best selling Western? True Grit rarely gave interviews. But that doesn't mean he didn't have a lot to say tonight we pay tribute to the late great. American novelist and out of the woods fifty years after she lost her boyfriend's class ring and a main department store. It turns up in a Finnish forest as it happens. The Tuesday edition radio that loves to see a woman getting the old band back together. Justin Trudeau is putting his faith in dialogue. The Prime Minister addressed the House of Commons. This morning about the indigenous lead blockades which of snarled rail traffic from Coast to coast Mr Trudeau appeal to both wet so it and leaders in BC and Mohawk leaders in Quebec and Ontario to sit down for talks and he warned about the risks on both sides of failing to find some sort of compromise. Do we want to become a country of irreconcilable differences where people talk but refused to listen? We're politicians are ordering police to arrest people a country where people think they can tamper with rail lines and endanger live. This is simply unacceptable but well Prime Minister Trudeau was calling for Dialogue Conservative leader. Andrew Scheer has heard enough. That was the weakest response to National Crisis. Addition to the Prime Minister's Word Salad. Just now Mr Speaker and at least two key things were missing a clear. Denunciation that the actions of these radical activists are illegal and some kind of an action plan. That would put an end to the illegal blockades and get our economy back. Conscious Serge. Simon is the grand chief of the Guinness Tugay Band Council at a press conference this morning. He suggested that it might be time for his fellow. Mohawks to end their rail blockades Ontario and Quebec. We reached grand chief Simon in Gaza. Tugay GANCI Simon. What have you been hearing from protesters since you made your call for the blockades to come down? Well out some Ben members at the office. They changed the band office doors and they're not letting anybody coming in to do their work and I went to me with them a little while ago and they're saying I acted unilaterally when I was trying to explain that it was acting what I thought was in the best interest of our community that a voice of reason one of the compassionate over the situation but they perceive it more like like I'm giving up and that's not the case at all. They're angry with you. Of course you said in the in the press conference that they've made their point that the blockades have served the purpose. What what have the blockades accomplished at this point? Well right now. There's GonNa be a dialogue with the West Weight and people and I think that dialogue has to be done in an atmosphere of respect. I think it's going to achieve. Its goal. I always said that even if they did consider to cake the blockades down. It doesn't mean. Ah they're not going to be brought back up again and possibly somewhere else so it's really not giving in it simply giving a chance for the process to move forward so that the was wet and people can at least be heard then. It was interesting that Perry Belgarde and the assembly of first nations grand chief. He was asked if he thought that the blockades should come down as well he carefully skirted around that he did say that nothing could change until they saw something substantive and meaningful he said. Do you think there has been something substantive and meaningful? That's come out of this standoff over these past weeks I translated I did I have but it could be the. The problem is The blockades could be making it more difficult for any ad discussions or any progress to be had. Its Way I'm just asking if they would consider that the point was made and that maybe there's another way we could help Doa sweat and people advancing der- their issues at the press conferences. Morning your fellow Mohawk grand chiefs they reminded us of the standoff said. Okay and that April wash whereas you know that people died there. So what concerns. Do you have if these blockades stay up? All my fellow grant made a an excellent point because we understand full well. I'll peaceful protests. It's not up to us. How how they evolved. And that's the risk that we see. Because look I'm from Oca- I was huge during nineteen ninety hours here I lived here my whole life and yet it washes. Well so this is what worries me. The most is that we start off peacefully. Our intentions are right but it's often our choice on how it gets resolved. What's your your feelings about with. Mr Shears said today. And in other places about what he refers to the illegal radical activists. What is Mr Sheer Strategy? Do you think Mister Scheer playing dangerous politics with the delegates Situation and I don't think he's learned anything about the past whereas Mr Trudeau is trying to use those lessons of the past and try to show a little bit more restraint whereas Mr Scherr wants to push the issue and he doesn't seem to care what the results might be like. Mr Schumer said illegal activism. There's nothing illegal about first. Nations people defending their land. Do you think that the kind of talk that we're hearing from Mr? Scherr will encourage the blockades and the protests to continue as they are it might harden the position of the Protesters a won't leave much room for dialogue. The way he's he's talking so not quite sure. Exactly what is intent is but we can free well. Guests might escalate situation. If Mr she was the one in power it would have escalated by also sure. Is it not also possible that the blockades would come down out of fear of what a government might do if they might send in the army or the police or whatever that maybe that's kind of talk would have done something For one thing I know for sure. That guys that on the blockades really. They're not afraid back. They're not afraid of that. One that I can guarantee that the protesters aren't afraid of any Retaliation if the if the police are sent in. I think it's just GonNa meet it head on but that's where the danger of escalation comes in so again instead of having dialogue and trying to find a peaceful resolution to it. The real risk of esscalation. There do you think that Canadians are aware of this. In a way they wouldn't have been if this. These protests had not happened to the blockades hadn't been set up. Do you think that it's actually brought an awareness woods? Zoltan are saying oh absolutely I don't know people weren't paying attention where they've been but yeah it's It's bringing sharp. Focus on the issue with the people but also with native across the country. And so what would you say to the protesters if you could be up there at the case now? Well I'd ask them right out. Do you think we've achieved what we wanted to achieve is not well. Then they'll go on that just at the they did well and I respect them and I support them to advise then I would advise to listen closely to what's going on within the politics because it might be a sign of where this whole thing is going and that we should prepare. Individuality does escalate seminary appreciate speaking with you. Thank you sir. Simon is the grand chief of the Guinness Tugay Band Council In the face of a mountain of claims of sexual abuse the BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA IS FILING FOR BANKRUPTCY. The historic organization is being sued by former scouts. Who say they were abused by scout leaders? Hundreds more boys and men have come forward in the last year with complaints. The Boy Scouts Organization says the bankruptcy will help them compensate victims but the filing also raises obvious questions about the future of the scouts which still one of the largest youth groups in the United States. Robbie Pierce is a former boy scout. Who says he was abused on a camping trip? In Nineteen ninety-four we reached him in Los Angeles and a note to listeners. That this conversation includes a discussion of sexual abuse. Ravi this bankruptcy announcement. Today came with an apology from the boy scouts of America. What does that apology mean for you? You know and I never expected to get that apology. Even as we were hoping to make this organization take some responsibility. There was a part of me that feared that they would avoid an outright apology. And so it's been pretty meaningful and you think that it shows that it had the organization and its leaders have taken responsibility. No I think that this is only the very beginning of taking that responsibility. This is not enough. It's not going to fix or undo anything that that was done by the organization but it is. It is the beginning of a new day with the boy scouts. And it's very encouraging me that we have them on record taking responsibility acknowledging that there were things that they could have done to prevent the scale of this abuse and they didn't do it and next we will see them in bankruptcy court and the head of voice cuts of America Roger Moesby. He says he believes that bankruptcy will actually help victims. Help compensation victims. What do you hope that this bankruptcy filing? We'll do. I think that's true? I think that there are both positives and negatives what's happening because on one hand it means that individuals can no longer sue the boy scouts which is a way to get another kind of closure for victims but this also means that as a whole the group of victims of the boy scouts of America are able to to move forward. And I believe that we will be able to get some sort of a settlement. The Boy Scouts of America acknowledged that there were thousands of perpetrators into this kind of abuse. And that obviously then thousands of victims of it each one of those represents the story like your own right. Every single one is somebody who was affected by that yours. Your experience of this abuse came in when you were thirteen years old on scout camping trip. Is that right? Yeah that's right. I have a brother just a year younger than me and we were both at a scout camp up in the SIERRAS and when evening shortly after we had we had gone to bed. A few of the scouts became sick. I was among them. We were just throwing up and you know probably eight something not great at dinner so the five of us went up to the medic lodge and the medic wasn't there and instead there was a man. We recognized him as one of the leaders of of the Boy Scout. Camp that we were staying at the volunteers I believe he was an employee. Actually and so we he had us come into the medics lodge one by one and he had me disrobe when it was my turn and he told me he was checking for a hernia and fondled me for a little while. I remember him saying. Are you shaking? Because my hands are cold or because I'm not a real doctor but stayed with me for a long time and when I was done I went out and one of the other boys went in and we went back and we didn't talk about what had happened and it was years before I came to came to understand. How just how frightening that was for me and how I had bottled a lot of things up and how it really just did a number on me. Psychologically I. I had thought that what had happened with my fault for a long time and they didn't understand that it was the thing that had happened two more kids and it wasn't until I was well until a year or two ago when I was listening to the radio in heard a story about other victims coming forward that I realized that there were many of us I didn't even then realize that it was thousands of us but I knew there are many and I thought that I should add my voice and so I called the phone number that I heard on the radio and I understand that there are thousands of us and it really picks my heart. I'm so sorry to hear all that. Thank you now. Though there is an organization there are there are lawyers. There are those who are going to pursue the boy scouts of America. For what happened to all of you man? You're saying that the boy scouts of America the they can't be reformed this has to be the end. This is not the whole structure the organization. The scouts just lends itself to this kind of abuse. What do you say that there has to be a way to work with children to have adults guiding children and teaching them and helping them to have positive experiences so? I don't believe that nobody could do it. I don't know if the boy scouts at this point could do it. If there really were willing to execute the complete overhaul that it will take. They might not be the ones to do it. I think they have lost a lot of public. Trust even in the last day even today for this. I have had so many positive formative experiences in the scouting program. But I would trade them all out to get rid of what they did to me or to any of the other the other boys. So that's what it will be decided next through this. Bankruptcy hearing is whether they will be able to continue to function in some new under some new parameters or whether they will be done for. And frankly all I care about is that this doesn't happen to more children. Robbie I really appreciate that you speak with us and share this. I'm sorry to to Probe into some really really painful memories for you but thank you. I really appreciate you reporting on this. Thank you so much by by Robbie. Pierce is a former boy scout says. He was abused during a camping trip. In nineteen ninety four he was in Los Angeles at the. Cbc has not independently verified his account. You can find that interview on our website. Cbc DOT CA Slash Ai. H In nineteen seventy three. When Deborah Kano was sixteen? Her Boyfriend John gave her his class ring. She cherished it. Then she lost it but ms McKenna and Sean stayed together. They got married and started a family in two thousand seventeen. Sean died of cancer. And then last week MS McKenna got a memento of her late husband. That she'd long ago given up on a package came in the mail and insight was that lost ring. That was obviously a surprise but even more surprising in fact completely baffling is where that ring was found. We reached Deborah McKenna in Brunswick Maine Denver. What was it like to hold your husband's class ring? After forty seven years amazing. I was in disbelief. Of course I was inspecting it just to make it truly was his ring and legit and it is. It is everything that it was when I had it when I was sixteen in one thousand nine hundred seventy three. Yes exactly what is it? What does it look like? It is a White Gold. Pretty Hefty Mans class ring at has a carving of a ship because our class mascot is a ship shipbuilders and then on the other side. It says Moore's high school and Bath Maine and then these stone was blue. And how do you know it was? It was his head his initials on the inside of it and he is the only one in his class. Who has those initials and it just had an s and an m inside. Do you remember when he gave it to you. I don't specifically remember. I know that it was after he graduated so it had to be in the fall of the end of the summer or the fall he was going off to college and she gave it to me then and I lost it soon after that and so he went off to college. You have the ring in how to delusive well. I went to Portland Maine. Which at that. Time was a big city for a bath girl. We were shopping at the local department store which was porteous Mitchell and Braun which is now the main arts academy but I went into the restroom and took it off did want to get that wet soy set it on the outside of the sink and wash my hands and walked out without it and that was it. You didn't see it again. It went back minutes later and it was not there and of course frantic looking everywhere thinking it must have gone down the drain. It could've been anywhere. I could not find anywhere and there was no one else in the restroom at the time. How did how did boyfriend. Sean react when you told them that you lost it. It didn't want to tell him but once I told him he was so cool about it he just said you know it's just a ring. It's it's a material thing at end always can be replaced. Don't worry about it. And he was very logical about stuff and he said well. It'll turn up if it's going to turn up and then we forgot about it and it sounds like the Kinda guy you should marry to exactly okay. So he he told you that. If IT'S GONNA turn up it'll turn up and where did it turn up? It turned up in Finland of all places not in the US but in Finland okay. So let's hear the story of how it managed who founded in Finland. What what's the story there? The the young man who founded Marco. Apparently he's a welder and he and his little boy usually go out in the woods and look for medal. He's got a metal detector and he usually comes up with maybe some artifacts and he happened to go out this particular day without his son his son is. I believe for years old and he was in the woods anyone over the soil and his geiger started beeping. He said that he dug down like he normally does three or four inches and still nothing but it was really reacting quite strongly so he dug down another four inches and found the ring and he finds US ring inland. And what did he have to do? In order to get it back to you. Well he was very interested because it had the ship on the side and he's a welder and there's a lot of welding when you're shipbuilding and He was very interested in it. He started researching it realizing. That Bath Maine is on the side of it so he started there and Moore's high school was the name and then We have a very active alumni with morse. High School is one of the most active in the US and we all have a website. Each year has a website and so he contacted nineteen seventy-three administrator of that website on facebook and she contacted me and said I think we found Shaun's ring. Can you tell me if you lost it? And where he lost it and I told her the story and she was incredulous. Said that's not where it's turned up and this man obviously went to a great deal of trouble to track down the owner. Each sure did and he was very excited about it. And once he started talking with the administrator he offered to send it back to them to the alumni association and she encouraged him to send it back to me directly and the class ended up paying for that postage and so he went to the trouble of getting it taken care of insent to us and gave us the tracking numbers so it was fun to watch it track from Finland all the way to the US. It took almost a month to get here and he opened that package and there. It was in your hand there. It was wrapped in a paper towel. It's a little bit worn but it's not is not brand new by any stretch of the imagination and it looks like it's been worn has a bit of wear on the stones chipped a bit so I would love to know exactly what the Path was. And you're not able to share the story with your husband. No my husband's sadly passed away in two thousand seventeen Up from cancer. He assaulted Gio cancer for six years and passed away years ago three years ago. I'm sorry thank you to had forty years together. We sure did forty great years plus so we're grateful for that and we had a very unique love and respect for each other and trust and life together. We we kept saying we've had a really good run of it heavenly okay so the question is is that. Why do you think now? What's your feeling about why this turned up in your life. Now what I you know. That's the question I keep asking myself over and over trying to figure out what's the reasoning and I don't know if if you had read anything else but I had mentioned that my husband doesn't believe in coincidences that everything happens for a recent. There are no coincidences. This is how it's supposed to line up so I'm thinking that he's letting me know that yet he's thinking of me and our love was pure back then and new and now it's come full circle and it's it's it's okay for me to get on with my life. Never thank you for sharing the story with us. You are welcome. Take Care Okay. Thank you. Deborah McConnell was recently reunited with a class ring. She lost forty seven years ago. We reached her in Brunswick Maine for years. Men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Louis this season on uncover. Pc this is happening. How can you not see this? They suspected serial killer and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast. It seems that wherever they go passengers of the Diamond Princess cruise ship can't escape the threat of Corona virus on the weekend. Hundreds of Americans were evacuated from the quarantine cruise ship to the US. But little did the passengers no that they would be taking that evacuation flight with some Americans who tested positive for the corona virus meanwhile on board the cruise ship five hundred forty two passengers have tested positive for the virus. So far and Canadian passengers are still waiting for their evacuation flight. Spencer Fehrenbach is a Canadian permanent resident and a US citizen. He was evacuated on Sunday. He's now on Travis. Air Force Base in California where he'll spend another fourteen days under quarantine. We reached him there. Spencer has field to go from one quarantine on a ship to another quarantine on. Us soil. Well Carol I think if you were going to ask me yesterday I probably would have said it's been an emotional and somewhat rocky experienced but waking up here day to I realized I'm actually very thankful For a couple of different reasons that I am doing a second quarantine here in the United States and you are now Travis Air Force Base and. Is that where you're staying? That were there keeping the people that they've taken off ship. Yes ma'am worse. Worse as I understand it. We'RE SPLIT BETWEEN. A couple different bases the main one being main tube being Travis Air Force Base here in California and then a second Baseman San Antonio Texas. What was it like on the ship for supposed to go back to that? I mean it was quite a stressful. Two weeks you spent. It was the first three days. Were very difficult simply because we myself and the three people. I was traveling with all. Four of us were identified as high risk when the corentin began so that first night we were actually given the test and they did not tell us whether or not we were positive or negative and so we basically had to wait for three days with daily announcements of ten new cases and then twenty new cases and then a third and final day forty one new cases and it was only then that. I actually just learned from news sources that all of those initial samples had been processed in the that was the reason why I knew definitively might test came back. Negative right so that was you knew that you were negative. Then but now. The clock starts again for the next fourteen days and they'll be watching for any symptoms. Is that right? That's absolutely correct. I literally just had my temperature taken five minutes before our call I understand on board was not just those being evacuated but those who had tested positive is that right. Yes so I'm I'm a little unclear as to exactly how that works But I do know that there were people on board who had tested positive and the only reason that I know that is when we landed there was a moment where before we got off the plane. Somebody asked you know. Hey Excuse me where. Where does this passenger said this person's name person in the row directly behind me raise their hand and Somebody in a full has met suit with pressurized oxygen within the suit came walking up to do this person and said you and your husband are going to be staying on the plane and going to Omaha and at the time I had no idea what that meant but I learned later on After hearing a some personnel here speaking with a group of passengers that Omaha was the destination for anyone who had tested positive and these people were sitting just behind. You literally an airplane seat right behind me. You know three feet behind me. Four eleven twelve hours. And were you wearing masks the whole time? I was watching That was something that I was a little taken aback by myself. In the cabin mate we will from the time we got on that plane Tried to keep our masks on you. At Ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time however most of the passengers would take their masks off and eat some snacks or or have water. I was a little shocked by how knowing kind of what we had all collectively been through for the last two weeks. How cavalier a lot of these. These other people on the plane were about spending twenty minutes eating a sandwich and then they're putting their masks back on without any concern for what they might have. Just breathed in the okay. In addition to people just sitting amongst you who were infected corentin section of the airplane. Is that correct? There was basically an a thick translucent. Plastic taped in Accu- with duct tape in the middle of the airplane draped down and then resealed again at the floor of the aircraft's. Wow and so. Was that alarming people to see that quarantined area. You know it's tough to tell when I got on the plane. We'd already been on a bus for the last six hours it was. It was about three thirty in the morning. By the time we got on the plane and The people that I spoke with conversations were very minimal and I can't imagine it wasn't alarming but by that point I think everyone was kind of in survival mode and so Once you start seeing Hazmat suits it. It takes a lot to To make you more concerned than you already are. Okay we see your six hours on a bus. Were the some of the WHO are infected. Where they were you. It's hard to know definitively but there there were a number of people coughing. I mean there's you hear people hacking along you're just thinking okay. Don't think about it. Nope because there's there's nothing you can do at that point six hours on the bus. And how many hours in the air? I believe it was about eleven hours. Only guy so you and so you have no idea what you've been exposed to just in the travel from the ship to the Air Force Base in the US. That's exactly right I wanted to ask you. I know you're a permanent resident of Canada. Did you think that Canada should have reacted much more quickly? As well candy reacted only after the United States did. It's really difficult to say as someone who feels very fortunate to call myself. Canadian permanent resident. The last thing I WANNA do is put myself in a place where I'm critical of. What the Canadian government has done. But I think it's pretty clear to see that once the United States have took that first step in kind of ordering the evacuation that I believe. Canada was second followed suit and see. The Canada took that second step before the United Kingdom before Australia. And now all of these other countries that are falling in line if nothing else shows Canada's commitment to To taking care of its people spencer. I appreciate you. You bring us up to date on that That extraordinary transition from one to the other and and I hope that time passes quickly. Thank you thank you very much carol. Thanks for having me on Spencer. Fehrenbach is a Canadian permanent resident and a US citizen. We reached him on. Travis Air Force Base in California under Corona Virus Quarantine for photographs taken on his long journey from Japan. You can go to our website. Cbc DOT CA SLASH AI H in their past lives. They were an investment banker. A police commissioner a state governor and the owner of a football team but recently they've been better known as convicted felons today however they were part of a group of eleven people granted clemency by US president. Donald Trump among them was Michael Milkin. Who was known in the nineteen eighties as the Junk Bond King and former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich? The Democratic governor was eight years into a fourteen year sentence after he was convicted of multiple corruption charges including trying to sell Barack Obama's vacated Senate seat for cash or a lucrative new job while Mr Blagojevich will leave prison his conviction will stand back in twenty eleven after Rod Blagojevich's sentencing as it happens guest host. Helen man spoke with Democrat Jack Francs at the time he was an Illinois state representative and a member of the legislature's impeachment committee. Here's part of that conversation from our archives. I think justice has been done today because of deliberate acts of bribery and extortion and fraud. That ultimately led to this day. They do warrant punishment tantamount to the serious nature of the former governors crimes. The judge said that he took a number of things into account in delivering that sentence. One of which is that He believes Mr Bloe. Vich has now accepted responsibility for what he did. Do you agree. I guess maybe the most he can all of my interactions with the former governor. He just seemed so immature that I didn't think that he could accept responsibility whatsoever. But hopefully today the gravity finally descended upon him and I hope that he has now and for his sake part of of his defense. I was an allegation that it was his advisors who pushed him to do this as well that he never actually pocketed any money. Should that have been taken into consideration? Do you think it's ridiculous? He had a bunch of yes men around him and if anyone disagreed with them he calls them just loyal and threw them out and and went after them personally. He knew exactly what he was doing. Every minute of the day and he was a former prosecutor himself. He knew right from wrong. He was more interested in his own self interest than that of those of the citizens he was to represent. So I think that's a ridiculous argument and I'm sure they the judge saw right through it. Where do you think this has left the people of Illinois when it comes to the government of the state and I guess politics in General. I think people are disillusioned. And you'll see that. And then the low voter turnouts that we've had in our primary elections last primary election for instance in my area. We had thirteen percent voter turnout. I think we could lose an entire generation of young people the public service you have to remember that Illinois. Our last two governors are now in federal prison. Four of our last nine have been convicted. You have a higher chance of being convicted and going to jail in Illinois. If you're governor if you commit a murder is that true yes? There's a lower clear rate for murders than there is for people who are former governors that have gone to jail from twenty eleven. That's as it happens guest host Helen Man speaking with Democrat Jack Francs about the fourteen year sentence given to former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich. Today Mr Blair witch was one of eleven people granted clemency by us. President Donald Trump on a quiet cul de sac in Saskatoon North End. Things seemed pretty normal last week. The daily routines of work in school were playing out as usual. Neighbors made small talk. While regular life continued. No one noticed that one man on the street was fighting for his life trapped inside a dumpster and if it wasn't for Lisa cush he may not have survived. Ms Kush lives on that cul de sac. We reached her in Saskatoon. They said what did you hear as your home last Friday that I caught your attention. The first time that I heard a noise it sounded like kids yelling and we live about half a block from school so I thought about three thirty four o'clock I thought there was just some noise from people moving back and forth and it kind of dismissed it but what was it about that. Those sounds that made you think you had to investigate further all a few minutes later it happened again. It was a little louder and it sounded like yelling and it wasn't just a little bit of commotion that I heard before it caught my attention and so then I went looking and I didn't see anybody. It was quiet so I thought oh alright. They've moved on whatever was happening. Is now is not happening now and I came back in the House and then the third time I heard it. It was desperate. It was somebody yelling and I could hear that desperation in the voice. And that's when I went running out and stood in the cul de sac in looking all three hundred sixty degrees trying to figure out where the sound was coming from because it was really disorienting bouncing off the houses. And that's when I noticed there was a hand coming out of the Laura disposal been and there was. It was a man's hand and he was trying to stand up so from the first time. You heard something too when you when you actually realized what the sound was and where it was coming from. How long had that been probably an hour because between the second time in the third time what. I didn't hear anything. I came back in the House that I may not and I thought oh well. That's nothing to be worried about that and I sat down and was relaxing and then I heard the third time I just went running so he had been calling for help on an off. And that's what I heard. Was it an open dumps. You could you look inside and see what was correct. It was an open dumpster. There was no lid and who was this man. His name was Reuben. I never met him before. He's not from our community. He had been walking through the neighborhood on Wednesday night. He said he missed his last bus back to where he's been staying in downtown Saskatoon and found himself with nowhere to be. It was minus thirty so when he saw dumpster and looked inside and there. Was drywall from someone doing home renovations. He crawled in covered himself up and fell asleep in the bottom and he couldn't get out. Or what right he slept for. He doesn't know he thinks maybe twelve eighteen hours because of the cold and then when he woke up he realized he was so weak. He couldn't yell it couldn't get up. He hadn't had anything to eat or drink for a long time and it was still quite cold so he was yelling on and off but he didn't have much of a voice and then on Friday as the weather started to warm up he got a little bit more mobility and started trying to come up to his knees and cause a bigger stir and was there was a much debris in there could he could he was he stuff piled on top of him. He there wasn't it's about a third full so I think that's part of why he couldn't get out once he got in there was enough debris in there to cover himself up to protect himself from the cold but when he wanted to get out there was no way to get his legs back up over the ledge because he was so weak so I had to get garbage cans and put them in their extra ones for him to create little steps to get him out. A condition was Ian. I would say early stages hypothermia. His hands in his feet were turning pretty blue very weak. I gave him some food and water when he came out he took him quite some time to be able to stand up and then we got him into the car. He didn't want to go for medical attention but he had shared that he was new to the province. So I'm not sure if that was because he doesn't have coverage yet or if because he just didn't want to go to the hospital and the people whose dumpster it was did they not notice that when people who that we're using it didn't they hear a notice anything they actually hadn't the family. That's there actually worked some shift work and they weren't home on Wednesday evening and then when they did a little bit of renovations earlier the next day and they toss some things in i. He thinks that's when he was sleeping. He remembers feeling something kind of bump on him while he was sleeping and not responding Puzo. They didn't look in because it's quite a toll been so they were mortified. The neighbors were mortified when I let them know what had occurred and as such now all of us in our little section of the of the street have been taking turns checking the been so that if that happened anyone else they would not have to spend the night in their his. Name's rubens that you said. Yes where where did you? What did you take? Ruben Ruben asked me to take him to a homeless shelter in downtown Saskatoon called the lighthouse and he told me that there were people there that knew him in that he would have support there. You know how to use. I don't I've tried checking in there and the one counselor that I have a connection with isn't in today and they won't release information because I'm not family so hopefully down the road. I'll find out what happened to Rueben. He was a really sweet man very kind person. That was part of the reason why. I was so mortified that someone was out in my Benz thirty feet from my front door for two days and I didn't know if I really think about it. I'm I was kind of caught in this complacency in my very warm comfortable home doing my work and hearing the noise outside on and off for those two days and not responding because it. I didn't think it really applied to me. They didn't really need to check up on whatever was going on outside of my house and it's just really shaken me how complacent we can be when our needs are met and thirty feet away. There's someone freezing dumpster but if fairness to yourself you didn't know until you saw that hand that you had that person that's right there's just so many people maybe fifty people a day walk past my home because of the school next door and none of us heard him but in tooth is had you not heard him he could have died in there. Yes it's minus thirty again today. What do you think this says about how we should engage with people and how we can actually while you think it's nothing to do with me but it you know it does? It's a community responsibility to just take care of each other. Be on the lookout. Check your yards. If you're leaving containers open understand that. That might be a safe place for someone. Even if that's not your intention and teach people look out for one another. We glad you were there. Be To thank you thank you. We've of course lives in Saskatoon. Last week she helped rescue a man who was stuck in a dumpster for two days the CBC reached out to the emergency shelter. That took in the man. Ms Kush helped last week. But the shelter told TB CBC. It does not give out personal information about its residents ooh When a great writer dies the first thing we do is go to the CBC archives which go back decades but when you search Charles Portis you get nothing. He didn't give interviews in fact he doesn't seem to have much like talking to strangers period his friend. Ephron told The New York Times that even when he was a reporter at the New York Herald Tribune in the sixties. He didn't like being reached. She said he was a newspaper reporter. Who didn't have a phone? The trip had to make him get one so even back then the pattern was there will despite his stubborn refusal to promote himself. You probably know his work especially his nineteen sixty eight novel about a young woman who teams up with a cranky drunk named Rooster Cogburn to avenge her father's death. True Grit and the two movies made of it exposed Mr Portas off kilter storytelling to a mass audience. Although he doesn't seem to have cared about that and if he did will never know. Charles Portas died on Monday. He was eighty six. He'd made his name as a journalist covering the civil rights movement and was the Herald. Tribune's London bureau chief in nineteen sixty four. When he announced that he was moving to Arkansas where he'd grown up to write novels two years later he published Norwood and then came true. Grit and over the next twenty three years just three more books each weird and funny and dark and each different from one another and from anything anyone else was writing and so brilliant that critic Ron Rosenbaum once called him. America's least known great novelist other than books. He published the odd short story. And in nineteen seventy seven. He contributed an odd humor piece to the New Yorker called Your Action Line. A parody of advice columns. He made up both the questions and the answers he addresses. Fictional readers concerns about how to get transcripts of the banter at a local Bar. And how a new no left turn sign has added hours to someone's commute and the last. Qna from your action line goes like this. Oh my science teacher told me to write a paper on the detective. Ants of saline and. I can't find anything about these ants. Don't tell me to go to the library. Because I've already been there. There are no aunts in Ceylon. Your teacher may be thinking of the journalist. Ants of Central Burma. These bright red insects grow to a maximum length of one quarter inch and they are tireless. Workers scurrying about on the forest floor and gathering tiny facts which they store in their abdominal sacs when the sacks are filled they coat these facts with a kind of Nicholas glaze and exchange them for bits of yellow wax manufactured by the smaller and slower wax ants the journalist and borough extensive tunnels and galleries beneath Burmese villages and the villagers reclining at night on their Straw mats can often hear a steady From the Earth this is believed to be the ants sifting fine particles of information with their feelers in the dark. Diminutive grunts can sometimes be heard too but these are thought to come not from the journalist. Ants but from their albino slaves. The butting dwarf aunts who spend their entire lives tapping wax into tiny storage chambers with their heads That was Charles puertas writing on the subject of the entirely made up journalist ants of central Burma. Mr Portas author of True Grit died on Monday. He was eighty six. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off Chris for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

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Meet the paramedic with a side hustle as the town mortician

White Coat, Black Art

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Meet the paramedic with a side hustle as the town mortician

"This is a cbc podcast for years men were disappearing from toronto escape edge and i i feel terrorized and i'm just been like this season on uncover we see this happening not that they suspected serial killer end they were right police arrested sixty six year old bruce macarthur but this wasn't the first time in the villages targeted you don't start killing at sixty six six start killing when you're in you're late teens early twenties uncover the village available now wherever you get your podcasts i'm doctor brian goldman this is white coat black art the show but medicine from all sides of the gurney these days just about everyone could do with a bit more kindness and empathy in their live none more so than patients who lived there hanging in the balance and families are show this week is about one of the most unusually qualified healthcare workers i've ever met hi my name is matthew sized i'm a firefighter paramedic i also am may a part time deputy coroner in former her funeral assistant the funeral assistant parttime deputy coroner and paramedic is also the author of silence siren memoirs of a lifesaving mortician who's very interested in meeting a paramedic medic who like me writes about his career as a first responder but in this case that highly unusual career turn what i discovered is a paramedic who lost his empathy living patients but got it back when he started ministering to the dead story which made it more than worth it to pay matthew siesta visit nc drove willie population just under twelve thousand sleepy town one hundred and thirty killing me just southeast of vancouver in washington state teacher willie once had sawmill with a major hub logging those days are gone but he drove willie is still the home of logger rodeo logger rodeo is one of the oldest this rural summer fest in the pacific northwest and the chainsaw carbon competition just like invitation homes by firm annual stone a chainsaw quiet kind of place but the the multi talented healthcare professional i've come to meet in the other room i've met many paramedics in my day it's matthew size other job but i want it to check out first this is access the walk in refrigerator this is worthy intake would be the garage door go up and the gurney removed in here and then after all the personal effects are recorded in the presence of the pacemaker that's the big deal because pacemakers can explode drink cremation so it's important to note that phrase personal protective equipment here this is kept at about forty two degrees this refrigerator 'em can accommodate six or eight bodies probably so this is the prep room and on his ball matthew the paramedics seems really comfortable embalming room at the back of a mortuary larry in mount vernon not bar procedural willie mac you worked here parttime react to tables inter filter down were still offer drainage and then we have some things like this is where the feet so the the feeder elevated and then the fluids conserve drained out here bottoming out a it's a little bit like a a surgical sweet we have all the tools laid out there as you could see a there are arterial can matthew knowsley embalming room inside out because he's used at brand piece of equipment storage here these run bombing tables this is addressing table so after the person is in bombed that person will go into this dressing table here and will be addressed a there's it's also a lift here some of are descendants are pretty large and we need some mechanical advantage to be able to move them from table to table and kind of savior say they're back and us saves your career you gotta you got a display of insurance over there too yeah so yeah their razors of course because even dead people need to be shave so they look nice in their in their casket in their hair combed 'em disinfectant spray and various clamps we used to these air comfort and even fascination with the newly deceased surface early in his career as a first responder he arrived at the home of a man who died of a gunshot wounds matthew volunteered to stay in help the coroner with investigation and years later as a paramedic matthew remembers being called to the home of a man who had died of a heart attack when a funeral director arrived to pick up the body matthew helped with the removal and the director offered him a part time job and the dual career was born what's a small community and some of us have multiple roles but did you ever find it weird a yes i did i i've a i do remember like say an instance in which a i had seen somebody a that was conscious and breathing and a i transported that person to the hospital and then the next image i have is is a this person lying on a preparation table and bombed and with the name tags that that can remember the guy's name yet a distinctive name and a was unusual yeah attracted a dead people well there's a question i think we need a bombing part of it appeals to the frustrated doctor in me i think the physiology of it 'em and then when i did a some work work with a large mortuary transport company in seattle i was intrigued by thee ability of embalmer there to take somebody that looks so sort of fat and hopeless then diseased and essentially restore any appearance of that person and for the family so they could remember their their loved one as they had looked at in life before they got sick there is a guy that had apparently cancer in was very emaciated in pale and 'em just fallow low and and within a couple of hours he was a he was looking more like his normal self on before he had gotten sick and i think that sort of restoring the dignity of of people 'em so their families could see the one last time it was appealing to me but isn't there a conflict of interest what's bad for the nine one one business is good for the funeral business i guess that's true a but it's not like i'm gonna be driving my business card on scene of failed resuscitation a will work just as hard as as a we count on somebody but eventually you know everybody's gonna die and there needs to be those people that take care of them and their families when they die so i i do i do see it is complementary and in fact at least in the corner business many of these a corner personnel come from cms a because they're ideally suited did you been out there in the field you have enough medical knowledge you know a what most of the medications do you've interacted with family and police at cetera and you know how to lift a body living bought her a dead body so you'll find life of some corners offices are consist entirely of of e m f personnel they're doing this and they're off time matthew says his jobs is paramedic and funeral assistant intersected with surprising frequency this is a specially true when he worked bainbridge island a small and somewhat isolated community who's only access the nearby seattle is by ferry and we're all the first responders and people who worked in the funeral business new one another in the book in silent siren when you were working bainbridge island which which is a relatively small place i gather you found yourself acting at times as a paramedic and then some mortician yes saint people and that was a that was a little odd way there is a situation which was assisting west conducting a funeral at a catholic church in i had seen this woman enter the church she didn't look very well but she was in her wheelchair she was one of the attendees and it was a fairly prominent member of the community that was it was funeral and while i was off delivering flowers i think to the grave in preparation for worthy of the procession on the mortuary side of the horse race side of things i got a phone call from the director who is there and he said list woman at the reception does not look very good and if you'd come in check her out that'd be great so i drove back in that time the time i got back she was unfold cardiac arrest and i went into paramedic mode wearing my soup and i had my name tag on said funeral assistant and i'm you know administering up an effort into this woman in a in sort of making eye contact periodically with the director in kind of 'em in he could tell the things weren't going to l a and then i so i switched out a paramedic mode at at one point in in a kind of went back in the funeral mode when i had to intake this woman at the funeral home they ended up transporting her in the paramedic in it when people die in a public place it's it's a kind of disturbing for people especially in the middle of reception so even if it doesn't look like the resuscitation is going well we usually remove them from the circumstances and conclude are resuscitate of efforts elsewhere and that's kind of what we did then you went back to the funeral and back to the funeral business yeah matthew size interest in ministering to the newly dead began when he was a paramedic but his interest impera medicine goes back much further when he was sixteen years old he joined explores the boy scouts of america program that gives teen some on the job experience matthew is posted to the local fire department it started out as kind of a social thing a a little bit of a nerdy kid 'em doesn't have a lot of friends my mom literally push me in the door the fire station that time i was sixteen i already was in the back of the ambulance a a performing skills and there's a little more permissive in those days back in the late eighties early nineties in which they allow kids to do a lot this what'd you do well what what's the what's the most paramedic like thing that you got to do as and explore as a kid i could do i was doing cpr is using the bag dolls mask 'em that was put in patients on oxygen carrying the stretcher was basically all the e m t skills 'em they only thing i really couldn't do is i couldn't go into a burning building anna couldn't drive the trucks which it's probably good because i wasn't really rather port driver in those days that summer during his explorer gig matthew had been on the job experience that set him on his unique career path as and explorer you got called the home of a man with heart failure named george and wildly e m t emergency medical technicians worked on george his wife made eye contact with you what happened so that was a an elderly man and i could see that these this couple had been together for for years probably sixty years or so and i just felt like a while all this medical stuff was going on but she didn't completely understand she was looking for somebody who is receptive to her and i think either i put my arm around her she put her arm around me and i think she just needed that i know reassurance that everything's gonna be okay even if it necessarily wasn't in it in ultimately it wasn't okay a but i think she needed that sort of human contact while the rest of the crew with more skill was performing all the medical aspects thinking about your career since then why do you think that story stuck with you there are many circumstances both is e n tease in as a deputy corners in which there's really not much it couldn't be done medically for somebody that you're there intervene in the crisis 'em you're there give people reassurance here there at a time that is probably the most difficult both of them ever an sort of give them guidance as to what happens next and i've always enjoyed that and that's why i've had these locations in applications a where i've been a reserve officer and a volunteer firefighter and a deputy coroner in medic and in a female directors they now are those connectors oh yeah so we didn't have much yesterday had a seizure patient we gave some said to so you might wanna check in refill that a friday gigi patches firm are last call so that might do we even have any more on the supply room i i'm not sure that you're pretty busy but overall a rig looks pretty good so okay are we getting the news you're listening to waco black art this week a conversation with matthew diet a paramedic and parttime funeral existence chronicled his do careers in his new book silent siren memoirs of a lifesaving mortician matthews early taste of life as a first responder through explorers scout set among the path to become a paramedic he liked the job but didn't like things about the jobs culture he says students and young recruits were subjected the hazing in his early experiences driving an ambulance on the streets of seattle were and i opener you worked for a while and ambulance crew in seattle you described some first response crews fabricating vital signs that stopped me dead in my tracks when i when i read it had several times including one time in the patient with in chocolate gastro intestinal bleeding how did you discovered this what's going on a that's fairly common unfortunately you know we called visual vitals there were some crews that were good and there were some that a there were there the fight fire that's why they were hired and they took all direction from their lieutenant in this particular case this patient had multiple layers of clothing on and was assumed to be drunk in fact he might have been a there's more going on then it seemed so one twentyeight powell is a is a vital sign they often give us a one twenty over eighty one twentyfive help 'em they'll make up a heart rate sixty years something like that and they'll say just get this patient on his way because they don't have to do the transport they don't have to communicate with the hospital all they need to do is just sort of get the patient off their hands and go back in the service so how did i discover well 'em in the elevator i noticed this patient had a vacant stare and was white is a sheet and we got him down to the ambulance i did what i should do which is to take all these layers of clothing off and get a blood pressure and i believe it was around sixty so i'm not a hunter hunter and twenty over eighty yeah matthew says he didn't report the firefighter fabricating vital signs because he knew that the behavior was tolerated by his bosses and because he didn't want his single himself out as a troublemaker he passed his paramedic exams and got a probationary job with the fire department in shoreline just north of seattle matthew says he didn't pass probation his boss told the young recruiter he was a good paramedic and would be a great one someday but he was let go because he didn't fit in that huge setback force matthew to rethink his career plan you remembered how absorbing it had been to help the coroner investigate the man who died of a gunshot wounds people feel that ambition by getting a job in seattle as a death investigator he liked the the job was more analytical in slower pace the paramedics and he brought the same high level of empathy to working in the coroner's office says he did to his other jobs often into some difficult situations what what's it like a the first time you were with the family fc investigator in the paramedic a you definitely feel like you're on stage and it felt like there a lot of pressure there it's similar to being a paramedic 'em but there's a everybody's sort of looking to for answers and then you've also got a lot more questions to ask and some of them are kind of probing questions you know you gotta ask about a a alcohol habits the tobacco habits drug habits at cetera of questions are pretty intrusive sexual sexual habits yeah most to a and so a the first few times i did that it was a nerve wracking it's especially nerve wracking when you have to do this on an infant death and you have to go through the feds checklist to its invasive sudden infant death the death a multi page document and you really do feel entrusted by the questions have to be answered they must be you must have next of kin at this point there weeping letter a their understandably distraught all kinds of different reactions to death 'em sometimes it's a a stone faced sometimes there i've been i've been hit before by people that have just lost their loved one as i'm sure you have probably you know almost physically attacked by people who don't want to accept their loved one has died and we just accept all those reactions they're all all normal reactions in the range of of human grief somebody in people just react in different ways one day after six months on the job he saw paramedics whiz by with lights and sirens and realize he missed it he got some more training and eventually got another shot at being a paramedic this time he succeeded in making it a career as a death investigator matthew gained and appreciation for they unfortunate circumstances in which people have died he's brought the same curiosity to the patients he sees in his second go around as a paramedic you're timezone empty you describe calls and more than one occasion involving reclusive looses to lift on their own and who were found dead 'em you wrote that you're kind of an intruder on their loneliness how much do you encounter that kind of story today quite often really an i think it's a lot of us just sort of go about our daily last having this assumption that most people are just sort of like us a but when you actually go into people's homes you realize that people living conditions that are just unimaginable to those of us that are just driving by 'em you know like all i found one person that a shed a wheelbarrow full of yard waste in the middle of her living room 'em there is a portion of this of the roof it was gone and there is a tarp covering it and it was sort of ballooned in words because of some of the rain 'em this is the way this person lift 'em and people will leave 'em in places where they don't have they're not actually using the plumbing in their urinating in bottles 'em and a it's disheartening but it's also sort of a privilege to be able to see how somebody somebody lift in you know not everybody gets invited 'em just see that aspect of humanity sad though it is and that's always been intriguing to me how do you think a your time in the mortuary business is changed you is a first responder i i think i i don't have that fear of death her dead bodies that even some of the people in e m f have a lot of my fellow responders want nothing to do with somebody as soon as the shooter's pulled over the head so to speak and i guess i have the full aspect of it from wife to death and i don't see a death is a failure quite so much as some other people who have not been in that in the business it always is in madison considered i guess that's failure but for me it's a logical conclusion to life sometimes it happens when you're fifty and sometimes it happens when you're eighty years old i'm just more comfortable with it then i say some of my fellow responders are like matthew diet i had lose my fear of death and in particular my fear of being blamed for the patient dies i found that when you do that you can't a lot more empathy for the patients we save and for the families of the ones who die for those who work on our side of the gurney it's a lesson well worth learning you're listening to white coat black art this week were gonna reach some letters an end in particular letters in response to a very moving show the we had a few weeks back about carla van castle you may recall a she's a forty two year old mom who had regular pap smears and yet still diagnosed with stage four cervix cancer and she's continuing to undergo treatment she was in remission briefly in an and she found out that it had recurred powerful show the thing that that that really came to the fore was how it brought a story from you and help us through some of those those very very powerful emails so we've received a i'm joined in the studio by senior producer donna doing well hello brian yeah that that certainly a is all true and one of the first letters that i wanna share from you is from dream mcconaughey victoria who writes about her mom she said my mother died at the age of forty four cervical cancer in nineteen seventy after a three year illness she died three days after my sixteenth birthday and left three young daughters at home although bc with one of the first provinces to implement the pap test her gp did not do this when she presented with symptoms the gp told her that she will middle aged and just needed to arrest as a registered nurse of forty six years i'm horrified to hear the case like carlos in the twenty first century in canada knowing that is not the only one i really thought we had move forward on early detection and diagnosis of cancer especially in the realm of cervical cancer i surely hope that canada is moving forward to include hp be testing the pap testing like australia in england i wonder why it is taken so long for this move at thanks for that letter at which time dream mcconnell key victoria camp who was also moved to contact us after hearing carl castle story he wrote as i write this i am shocked as unexpected tiers flow this year it will be thirty years since my wife died of cervical cancer she was forty two years old we met when we were sixteen and she was the love of my youth she left me with two sons thirteen and fifteen years old i haven't actually agreed this law for many years what resonated with me hearing carlos story is the fact that her pap smears were not diagnosed in time nor accurately accurately my wife would tell the same story starting in nineteen eighty five she didn't feel well for two or three years but the doctors did not seem to figure out what was wrong with her at one point one doctor suggested that my wife's see a psychiatrist she was the last person in the world who need it to be a psychiatrist she was a highly educated highly functional highly left woman her loss was devastating to all who knew her i'm grateful for modern medicine in most thankful for the dedicated medical professionals to service each day we all make errors in judgment the stakes are often high and when that happens live even generations are impacted by which from waco listener kemp who's an we've got another emotional letter from karen atkinson in ottawa she writes i'm writing with a heavy heart in through a few years i too had symptoms that were dismissed or missed by doctors that turned out to be hpv related cervical cancer i believe my cervical cancer could have been prevented or at least been less advanced had hpv testing been made available to me i was recently at a lab having blood drawn todd brochure advertising hpv touch screen for cervical cancer i burst into two years in the middle of the room by wasn't i told about this earlier i brought the brochure my g p and she didn't even know about the test or how to requested the kind of confusion and misinformation needs to be sorted out for now i'm doing quite well and i will return to work in a few weeks my hope is that eventually i will receive news said i have complete response to the chemo radiation and breaky therapy treatment i received but even with that i know that ria current if possible and that knowledge it's already lingering in my mind thank you can act and for sharing your story and on i suspect that the in the weeks and months ahead as there are new developments in india evolving story of new methods of screening for cervical cancer that will be bringing those stories he's to waco blackheart we also had some powerful feedback from our show on fsp fetal alcohol spectrum disorder teaching fsp educator mile timmel reich bernadette o'donnell from burning bc wrote fsb is a topic that impacts more families than any other health condition and yet it is supportive and talked about the least we operate dfs de okinawa in valley assessment in support society one of two fsp assessment clinics for adults nbc adult's who missed the opportunity to be diagnosed as youth are misunderstood not supported in most end up in the justice system homeless and facing addictions some provinces support assessments for those with that basti others like us or not provided any government funding individuals were left with a five thousand dollar bill for a diagnosis that will give them access to the support they need often those who need a diagnosis most are not able to access one that's from burned at o'donnell and susan pico from car crossed yukon also wrote in response to that show and she writes i would support worker for adults with f s d for many years i left the field feeling frustrated and overwhelmed whelan's with a lack of understanding at how common issue it is only professionals in every field knew what to look for the greatest thing i learned with that said he did not affect intelligent much of behavior also self awareness this is the most important thing for everyone we all have our strengths and challenges still meet people today who think this is strictly a first nation problem alcohol and self medicating isn't issue everywhere that was from sudan pico in car crashes yukon thanks for that matter and finally this letter from grace will in vancouver so much more education is needed on fsp which is very difficult to understand the help and support from my kid now twentyfive is minimal i'm basically on my own with it he just not really understand his condition yet it breaks my heart to remember they abused he suffered from teachers the parenting advice i got was just plain wrong because his teachers just did not understand the condition the most effective information i have received has come from mile kimmel right who has become a very effective public speaker over the last couple of years and someone who is on her show grace will continues i'm hoping that eventually there will be proper support for people like my child but that won't happen without more education so i hope you will keep uncovering fsp thanks all of you for writing emails and posts on facebook into her blog and thanks to senior producer jonathan wofford joining me in the studio let's do it again my player that's our show for this week email us at white coat at cbc dot dna i'm on twitter at night shift md and the show is that cbc white coat were also on facebook to listen anytime download the cbc radio app or the radio player canada app are podcast is available at subscriptions dot cbc dot cia on i tunes and wherever you obtain your podcast and if you're looking for the latest in health news and analysis subscribed a second opinion at subscriptions dot cbc dot cea white coat black art was produced this week by jet goods with help from jetta bury her senior producer

bruce macarthur brian goldman toronto sixty years five thousand dollar forty two degrees forty six years forty two years forty two year sixty six year fifteen years sixteen years eighty years thirty years three years six months three days three year two years one day
AP Headline News Jan 29 2019 11:00 (EST)

AP Radio News

03:45 min | 1 year ago

AP Headline News Jan 29 2019 11:00 (EST)

"I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states NMLS number thirty additional conditions are exclusions may apply. After years have been rolled up within an inch of my life. I'm free receipts of a mind of their own go, paperless and manager travel expenses online with my taxi business. Make the smarter choice might Tuksy dot com. AP radio news. Good morning. I'm Ed Donahue, President Trump's fomer confidante. Roger stone is facing charges in the Russia investigation. That is what it sounded. Like when stone arrive to federal court in Washington. He was arrested in Florida last week in his charged in a seven count indictment with obstruction lying to congress and witness tampering. Stone has said the charges against him are politically motivated, President Trump is tweeting today on a new book about him the AP. Saga megani has the story team of vipers cliff SIMS compares many Trump aides to serpents it's the latest in a series of books by former White House staffers that are unflattering to the administration the president's dismissing it as yet another boring book full of made up stories and fiction. He tweets SIMS pretended to be an insider when in fact, he was nothing more than a gopher Trump's campaign says it's getting ready to sue SIMS for violating a nondisclosure agreement. The president has a history of threatening legal action but not actually following through saga megani? Washington. It was spotted on mino- Pat of national security adviser John Bolton yesterday. The words. Five thousand troops to Colombia acting Defense Secretary Pat Shanahan was asked about said that I did speak with secretary Bolton about it. Someone else about it. I'm not commenting on Shanahan would not rule out sending military forces to Colombia or the region because of the ongoing political upheaval in Venezuela. Temperatures in parts of the midwest of reach lows around twenty-seven balloon zero wind chills fifty nine below. Forecasters say this type of weather could be life threatening hundreds of public schools are closed from North Dakota to Michigan. Forecasters in Atlanta are warning streets could become icy as fans arrived for the Super Bowl with temperatures expected to drop more than twenty degrees during the day to day flights into Atlanta have been canceled school has been canceled for the day because of the cold weather. This is AP radio news. Police in Honolulu say a pickup truck slammed into de-stress and a bicyclist at a busy intersection. Lieutenant James Slater says three people were killed. The suspect was injured we believe speed and oklaho- are factors. But that's again. The investigation is ongoing nor arrests have been made as of yet. But as you folks know with the suspect being injured is taking care of the treatment. First Slater says the truck had hit other cars several blocks away, and then sped across three lanes of traffic in an attempt to turn. And that's when the crash happened in Canada, Bruce, MacArthur, the former landscaper charged with killing eight men with ties to Toronto's gay village district pleaded guilty to eight counts of first degree murder last year. Police found the remains of seven of the men in large planters at a property where MacArthur had worked the remains of the eighth person were found later on the same property MacArthur will be sentenced starting on Monday. There is the possibility he could work out a plea deal. I'm Ed Donahue, AP radio news. The stylized lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. That's Ugo tickling the ivories. He just saved. By bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally for that gal of yours Ugo send condolences. This. Nice Jones you. There's. In my all. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations.

President Trump AP Roger stone president Ed Donahue MacArthur James Slater Washington Quicken Loans Ugo Pat Shanahan Trump Jay Farner John Bolton America Colombia CEO Atlanta cliff SIMS