15 Episode results for "Brian Weeden"

Space Junk: How Cluttered Is The Final Frontier?

Short Wave

11:19 min | 1 year ago

Space Junk: How Cluttered Is The Final Frontier?

"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. Everybody Matty sify here with shortwave reporter. Emily Kwong Hey. Hey you so today. We have a listener question episode. Hey this one is from Rachel Weiss. Hey there shortwave. This is Rachel from Jacksonville. Florida Florida and I was curious about space junk How much of a problem is it? If at all and where is all this junk anyways space the final frontier Mattie is not a pristine environment since the dawn of Sputnik. We've been filling it with. Satellites Manmade objects placed in orbit collect data and send signals for military purposes research communication navigation our friend. GPS that's right. We are a satellite dependent world. I WANNA introduce you to more about John. He enlisted in the US military after high school and was stationed Malmstrom air force base in Montana when he noticed satellites for the very first time in Montana is big sky country and not only. Do you see lots of stars in the Milky Way and all that but I started noticing these dots going across the horizon. Uh and he realized those dots for satellites. I never imagined that with my naked I I'd be able to see hardware other satellites of their reflecting sunlight and it was like wow more of a now studies the movement of stuff in space including space junk at the University of Texas at Austin. So what does he think of Rachel question. Yeah more of a says. Space Junk is absolutely a problem. We send this material up into space and for the most part it never comes back the. US Department of Defense is tracking on well. Over twenty thousand artificial satellites payloads rocket bodies debris and approximately ninety percent of that is non. Operational `rational wow. Is this junk. That's a lot of junk. Yeah and the Department of Defense only tracks on objects that are at minimum ten centimeters diameter so bigger than a softball. So we don't actually even know the full extent of what's up there. Well there's been a few statistical models trying to estimate it but the important thing to know is that this aggregate of space junk is growing rowing Most of it in low earth orbit NASA zone website describes this region. That's kind of an orbital space junkyard and the population of space junk is likely to grow which might be a problem for anyone who you know. Relies on satellites Pingo so today show space junk. Why it's a problem? And somehow it's building up in a final frontier with little regulation and a lot of trash. We'll tell you about the first planned mission to pick up space junk. And we are tackling a question from listener Rachel Weiss on Space Jong this growing population of manmade objects cluttering births orbit. So how exactly does that happen. Okay I let's consider what satellites are made out of metal plastic glass powered by batteries or solar panels and when they're placed in specific orbital highways. They stay there moving so quickly that they don't fall towards the earth. Kind of like you know if you had to put a boat in a body of water. Are you want to avoid fighting current kind of thing. That's more of a jaw who we met earlier. He says that. From sputnik onwards our satellites have been creating debris shedding spent rocket bodies pieces becoming glued satellites have been known to explode when unspent fuel is on boarding and of course they can cross flight paths and collide with one another and whenever satellite should pieces. They tend to not should one but many many pieces hundreds of thousands of pieces depending on the type of collision. These collisions rarely destroy the satellites. But they can alter their operation and send pieces jettisoning off into space affected not only by gravity but other physical forces. So we're pressure thermal radiation charged particle environment Interactions with magnetic fields. And all of this makes it very difficult to predict what space junk will do next. The little that falls back to Earth which is one object. A day on average burns up or falls into the ocean so so space junk is probably not going to land on your head. Have you calculated that probability. Because you're gonNA ask me question. I haven't but there's a scientist the mark matinee at NASA's orbital debris program who has it's one in several trillion. Honestly I still like it. Okay Mattie the people you should worry about more four astronauts right. The International Space Station actually has a tracker to monitor for collision risk and they will maneuver out of the way when the risk is too great. Wow but I feel like if there was a major collision I would hurt about it right. Yeah there hasn't been a major collision you know the US military NASA and other agencies and groups around the world they tracked debris and Warren earn of potential collisions. But there's been a few scares in recent decades so in two thousand fifteen for example the crew on the International Space Station had to hide in their Sawyer's capsules basically the stations lifeboat. When debris from an old Russian weather satellite came dangerously close? I don't like that. No spacecraft and satellites will routinely maneuver out of harm's way away but only if they have ample warning so the whole spacefaring community was pretty rattled when in two thousand seven. The Chinese military destroyed one of their own weather satellites nights. They were testing out. anti-satellite Technology Brian Weeden remembers tracking this big explosion for the US Air Force. I personally was sort sort of shocked. It was kind of like wow. Brian was part of a squadron that counted the resulting debris and in the end ended up cataloging more than three thousand objects so that one satellite got turned into three thousand things. And that's just the things we can track wasn't space junk big part of the movie gravity you are remembering cracks. Blake from the missile strike has caused a chain reaction hitting other satellites in creating new degrees two thousand eighteen. Hollywood movie it begins. With a chatty George Clooney and Sandra bullock look servicing the Hubble space telescope as and contentedly back at Earth when this huge cloud of debris from missile strike grips through like a communication blackout. It's it's about situation happened north. America's lost their baseball dramatic portrayal. Definitely raise the profile of space junk. Even if the portrayal wasn't very accurate I think maybe I'm a whole at has been a good thing for for the issue even if I might grumble a little bit scientists love to grumble. That's Brian Weeden again gun. He's now the director of program planning for the Secure World Foundation. Thanks a lot about sustainability in space and he says that opening scene gravity doesn't capture the true problem over the breath catches him was portrayed as sort of a a nuclear chain reaction right. There's one event that sets off this series of things that will happen very fast the reality he is sort of the opposite where it's it's like climate change the problem with space junk is it's a long relatively slow accumulation over for decades with a big negative impact down the road. Got It yeah so. Brian says mitigating. The risk of space junk involves convincing people launching satellites it's governments and companies to change their behavior now mindful of the future and maybe have a little inconvenience or a little more cost now to forestall bad things in the future and that's a really difficult argument to make because we humans just aren't engineered to kind of think like that preach especially especially when nothing truly catastrophic has happened yet but space junk is already proving to be problematic in the short term. It's translating into real world. Costs a satellite operators field alerts about potential collisions. Do Do I change my satellites orbit because that costs fuel and that will shorten the lifetime your satellite which which isn't good for the commercials base economy which is Kinda booming right now. Yeah we did that episode. All about how SPACEX is going to put a bunch of satellites up there right you know in the long term. Space trump has the potential to not only collide with manned spacecraft like the International Space Station but threatens satellites at all levels of orbit like those used for imaging and whether data collection election which then could mean. Our climate models are less accurate or we don't have a good way to track the mirrors and that could have negative impacts down the road. Yeah we're GONNA need that data we are. But here's the thing there's no. International Regulation for how satellites should operate. There's only guidelines guidelines yes the guidelines from the Inter Agency Space Debris Coordination Committee for mitigating the risk of debris. Things like Deorbit your satellite after twenty five years by burning it up for bringing it down passive the upper rocket stage meeting vent all the remaining fuel or draining the batteries so it's not exploding so there's less risk for debris countries do this but it's totally voluntary. It's up to each individual nation to implement so until there's greater accountability. Space Junk will continue to be a problem. Okay okay. We've talked about the problem. Give me a solution kwong. Like what is being done to clean up this junk while we're not seeing much in the skies there's has been demonstrations of different cleanup technologies on earth that could be used in space magnets deployable nets harpoons. A little space fishing. Yeah in the orbital see see most of this cleanup technology is being developed in Europe and Japan. But here's the thing we don't know what's the best way to Yank this swiftly moving debris out of orbit it to a place where it can safely burn up. You need a high level of precision to remove that junk without creating more of it and I feel like that would take a lot of money to pull that off. Yes yes so. It was a pretty big deal. When last December the European Space Agency Green Lit the first ever cleanup mission called clear space one which is estimated? It cost over one hundred million dollars and twenty twenty five. The European Space Agency plans to send a cleanup robot to scoop up a chunk of old old European rocket a chunk so they're spending over one hundred million dollars to clean up one piece of space junk. It's a big piece is is more significantly. This hasn't been done before right. Can we agree church. This is kind of progress. It could be a game changer. In the void of space which more about considers an ecosystem that we need to actually try to protect so if these natural pathways become. I'm too polluted to congested. If we can't use these horrible highways anymore then you can say goodbye to these services and capabilities so this is my concern. That's a tragedy of the Commons as it were in their space because of this lack of holistic management of this finite resource for me. It's so easy to see spaces infinite right but the space we use most that houses. Our satellites is actually pretty finite. Emily thank you for taking on this enormous listener listener question. And thank you Rachel Weiss for sending it. Thanks Rachel. This episode was produced by Brett. Hansen edited by lay and fact checked by burly McCoy. Thanks for listening to shortwave from N._P._R..

International Space Station Rachel Weiss Inter Agency Space Debris Coor European Space Agency Brian Weeden Space Jong US NASA Emily Kwong Mattie Department of Defense scientist NPR Montana reporter Florida University of Texas Jacksonville cluttering
SPACE WEEK: Is Space Junk Cluttering Up The Final Frontier?

Short Wave

12:24 min | 11 months ago

SPACE WEEK: Is Space Junk Cluttering Up The Final Frontier?

"Maddie Safai here at. Emily. We are rounding the corner on space sweet and preparing a new episode for you. Tomorrow all about the end of the universe you know something light and cheerful for the end of the summer twenty. Twenty. But before we go a big, thank you to all of you for listening to short wave. Thank you for your emails. You're reviews, your questions, such good questions, y'all which inspire our episodes all the time like this one from earlier this year on space junk, Oh and real quick if you haven't subscribed to or followed shortwave yet go ahead. The time is now earthlings we will not wait for you ship is leaving. That's right onto the show. You're listening to shortwave. From NPR. Everybody, Matty sify here with shortwave reporter Emily Kwong Hey. Hey you. So today we have a listener question episode. Hey, this one is from Rachel Weiss Hey there shortwave. This is Rachel from Jacksonville Florida and I was curious about space junk how much of a problem is it? If it all and where is all this junk anyways space The, final, frontier Mattie is not a pristine environment since the dawn of Sputnik, we've been filling it with satellites manmade objects placed in orbit, collect data and send signals for military purposes research communication navigation, our friend GPS. That's right. We are a satellite dependent world. I WANNA introduce you to more about John, he enlisted in the US. Military after high school and was stationed at Malmstrom Air Force. Base in Montana when he noticed satellites for the very first time Montana is big sky country and not only do you see lots of stars in the Milky Way and all that but I noticing these dots going across the horizon. and he realized those dots for satellites. I never imagined that with my naked I. I'd be able to see hardware other satellites of their reflecting sunlight and it was like. More. Of A now studies the movement of stuff in space including space junk at the University of Texas. At Austin. So what does he think of Rachel's question? Yeah. More of a says space junk is absolutely a problem. We send this material up into space and for the most part, it never comes back the US. Department of Defense is tracking on well over twenty thousand artificial satellites, payloads, rocket bodies, debris, and approximately ninety percent of that is non operational. Wow. This this junk that's a lot of junk. Yeah and the Department of Defense. Only tracks on objects that are at minimum ten centimeters diameter. So bigger than a softball. So we don't actually even know the full extent of what's up there. Well, there's been a few statistical models trying to estimate it. But the important thing to know is that this aggregate of space junk is growing most of it in low earth orbit NASA zone website describes this region has kind of an orbital space junkyard and the population of space junk is likely to grow, which might be a problem for anyone who you know lies on satellites. Pingo. So today in the show space junk why it's a problem and how it's building up in a final frontier with little regulation and a lot of trash will tell you about the first planned mission to pick up space junk. We are tackling a question from listener. Rachel. Weiss space-junk this growing population of manmade objects cluttering up Earth orbit so Does that happen? Okay I. Let's consider what satellites are made out of metal plastic glass powered by batteries or solar panels, and when they're placed in specific orbital highways, they stay there moving. So quickly that they don't fall towards the earth kind of like, you know if you had to put a boat in a body of water, you want to avoid fighting the current kind of thing that's more. But jaw who we met earlier, he says that from sputnik onwards, our satellites have been creating debris shedding spent rocket bodies pieces becoming glued satellites have been known to explode when unspent fuel is on board, and of course, they can cross flightpaths and collide with one another and whenever satellite shed pieces they. Tend to not should one but many many pieces, hundreds of thousands of pieces depending on the type of collision. These collisions rarely destroy the satellites, but they can alter their operation and send pieces jettisoning off into space affected not only by gravity, but other physical forces. So we're pressure thermal radiation charged particle, environment interactions with you know magnetic fields, and all of this makes it very difficult to predict what space junk will do next the little that falls back to Earth, which is one object that day on average burns up or falls into the ocean. So space junk is probably not going to land on your head. Have you calculated that probability because you're GONNA ask me this question I haven't. But there's a scientist mark. Matinee, at NASA orbital debris program who has it's one in several trillion honestly I still like it but okay Mattie the people you should worry about more astronauts right? The International Space Station actually has a tracker to monitor for collision risk and they will maneuver out of the way when the risk is too great. Wow. But I feel like if there was a major collision, I would hurt about it, right? Yeah. There hasn't been a major collision you know the US military NASA and other agencies and groups around the world they tracked debris and Warren of potential collisions but there's been a few scares in recent decades. So in two thousand, fifteen, for example, the crew. On. The International Space Station had to hide in their Sawyer's capsules. Basically, the stations lifeboat when debris from an old Russian weather satellite came dangerously close. I don't like that no spacecraft and satellites will routinely maneuver out of harm's way but only if they have ample warning so the whole spacefaring community was pretty rattled when in two, thousand, seven, the Chinese military destroyed one of their own weather satellites they were testing out anti-satellite. Technology. Brian Weeden, remembers tracking this big explosion for the US air. Force. I personally was sort of shocked. It was of like wow Brian was part of a squadron that counted the resulting debris and in the end ended up cataloging more than three thousand objects. So that one. Got turned into three thousand things and that's just the things we can track wasn't space junk a big part of the movie gravity you are remembering cracks lake. From the missile strike has caused a chain reaction hitting other satellites in creating desgris two thousand eighteen Hollywood movie begins with a chatty George Clooney and Sandra bullock servicing the Hubble space telescope gays, and contentedly back at Earth. When this huge cloud of debris from missile strike grips through communications blackout it's a bad situation happen North America's laws individual. Dramatic portrayal definitely raise the profile of space junk. Even if the portrayal wasn't very accurate I, think navy on the whole it has been a good thing for for the issue. Even, if I might grumble a little bit scientists love to grumble. That's Brian Weeden again he's now the director of program planning for the Secure World Foundation thinks a lot about sustainability in space, and he says that opening scene gravity doesn't capture the true problem over the breath catches him was portrayed as sort of a nuclear chain reaction. Right there's one event that sets off this series of things that will happen very fast. The reality is sort of the opposite where it's it's like climate change. The problem with space junk is it's a long relatively slow accumulation over decades with a big negative impact down the road. Got It. Yeah. So Brian says. The risk of space junk involves convincing people, launching satellites, governments, and companies to change their behavior. Now mindful of the future and maybe have a little inconvenience or a little more cost now to forestall bad things in the future, and that's a really difficult argument to make because we humans just aren't engineered to kind of think like that preach especially when nothing truly catastrophic has happened yet but space junk is already proving to be problematic in the short term, it's translating into real world costs a satellite. Field alerts about potential collisions. Do Do I change my satellites orbit because that costs fuel and that will shorten the lifetime your satellite, which isn't good for the commercials base economy, which is Kinda booming right now. Yeah. We did that episode all about how SPACEX IS GONNA put a bunch of satellites up there. Right you know in the long term space junk has the potential to not only collide with manned spacecraft like the International Space Station, but threatens satellites at all levels of orbit like those used for imaging and whether data collection, which then could mean our climate models are less accurate or we don't have a good way to track the mirrors and that could have negative impacts on the road. Yeah we're going to need that data we are, but here's the thing. There's no international regulation for how satellites should operate. There's only guidelines guidelines. Yes. Guidelines from the Inter, agency space, Coordination Committee for Mitigating the risk of debris things like Deorbit your satellite after twenty five years by burning it up or bringing it down passive the upper rocket stage meaning vent all the remaining fuel or training the batteries. So it's not as exploding. So. There's less risk for debris countries do this, but it's totally voluntary. It's up to each individual nation to implement. So until there's greater accountability space junk will continue to be a problem. Okay. We've talked about the problem give me a solution kwong like what is being done to clean up this. While we're not seeing much in the skies. There's been demonstrations of different cleanup technologies earth that could be used in space magnets to, and that's how. Little space fishing. Yeah. In the orbital see, most of this cleanup technology is being developed in Europe and Japan but here's the thing we don't know what's the best way to Yank. This swiftly, moving debris out of orbit to a place where it can safely burn up you need a high level of precision to remove that junk without creating more of it and I feel like that would take a lot of money to pull that off. Yes. So it was a pretty big deal when last December the European Space Agency Green lit the first ever cleanup mission called clear space one, which is estimated to cost over one hundred, million dollars in twenty twenty five, the European Space Agency plans to send a cleanup robot to scoop up a chunk of old European rocket a chunk. So they're spending over one hundred million dollars to clean up one piece of space junk. It's a big piece. Is. More significantly this hasn't been done before right can we agree church? This is kind of progress. It could be a game changer in the void of space, which more about considers an ecosystem that we need to actually try to protect. So if these natural pathways become too polluted to justed if we can't use these orbital highways anymore, then you can say goodbye to these services and capabilities. So this is my concern. That's a tragedy of the Commons as it were in near Earth space because of this lack of. Holistic management of this finite resource. For me, it's so easy to see spaces infinite, right but the space we use most that houses our satellites is actually pretty finite. Emily thank you for taking on this enormous listener question and thank you Rachel ways for sending it. Thanks Rachel. This episode was produced by Brett Hansen edited by lay and fact checked by burly McCoy. Thanks for listening to shortwave from NPR. Guy, rise NPR's how I built. This is simple splash of color accidentally launched. Sandy Chila which into a forty year career as a designer entrepreneur and creator of the now famous chiller which place mat subscriber listen now.

International Space Station Rachel Weiss US Emily Kwong European Space Agency Brian Weeden NPR NASA Mattie Department of Defense Maddie Safai Montana Matty Austin cluttering Malmstrom Air Force reporter University of Texas SPACEX cracks lake
India Claims Successful Test Of Anti-Satellite Weapon

NPR's World Story of the Day

02:48 min | 2 years ago

India Claims Successful Test Of Anti-Satellite Weapon

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Comcast business having the nation's largest gig speed network was just the start. Now, they're providing gig fueled apps and solutions that exceed expectations and help businesses perform Comcast business beyond fast. India announced today that it has successfully tested a satellite killing weapon. NPR's Jeff Brumfield has more on the test. And what it could mean for the region. Indian prime minister Narendra Modi announced the test and a national address hot up the arch up on our nam underage. He says that India now stands tall as a space power VIP. Wondering is a political scientist to MIT? He says the test apparently used an Indian made missile to strike an Indian made satellite. They launch a missile from their missile test site and intercepted the satellite, which was in orbit at three hundred kilometers in space three hundred kilometers or one hundred eighty six miles. Actually, a relatively low orbit. No pun intended is relative low hanging fruit in terms of a kill. But you know, it is it's only the fourth country. That's demonstrated a set capabilities. The other three are China Russia in the United States Brian Weeden with the secure world foundation. He says there's an anti-satellite arms race happening right now. And there are no arms control treaties to stop it organizations. Like the UN regularly talk about limiting weapons in space. But the really hasn't been any serious discussion about dealing with ground based and light weapons. We didn't says the main danger is debris that can be created by hitting a satellite a two thousand seven test by China's speed thousands of fragments into orbit many are still up there. So the concern would be that if there's a future conflict, which weaned US, China US, Russia, India and China or even Indian Pakistan that these weapons might be used. And lower orbit might become filled with deadly shrapnel that could knock out other non-military satellites VIP in Narang says he sees another purpose behind India's test today to strike the satellite. The Indian military used to kind of missile designed to intercept other missiles hitting a satellite is similar to striking incoming warheads. So the tests may actually be about missile defense. If that's the case, then it's also designed to send a message, they'll say, it's not directed towards any other country, but this is clearly relevant to Pakistan. That's Jeff Brumfield. And you're listening to all things considered.

India Narendra Modi Comcast Jeff Brumfield China Brian Weeden US Russia Pakistan NPR UN prime minister MIT scientist VIP Narang three hundred kilometers
02-18-20 Indigenous language program road trip

Native America Calling

56:30 min | 1 year ago

02-18-20 Indigenous language program road trip

"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque. I'm Tara Gabe would in Wisconsin Ho Chunk. Language learners can read children's books solve crossword puzzles in the language injury. Three territory and Canada adults. Join little ones learning ojibway in preschool and in Massachusetts all ages programs aimed to revive language. That had no fluent speakers left. They are among the more promising efforts to keep languages thriving. Today we're going on a native language road trip right after the news. This is national native news. Antonio Gonzalez South Dakota Governor Christie. No one wants to collaborate with tribes to combat drugs during a recent press conference GNOME says the state will make resources available. As Lee strube injure reports Governor Gnome. Says she's extending the hand of the state government to offer help nomads. Making it known the State is willing to enter into memorandum's of understanding joint powers and extradition agreements they point to similar agreements with the State Highway Patrol and the Crow Creek tribes annual POW alongside the Attorney General and secretary of tribal relations GNOME SAYS. She recognizes tribal. Resources are thin. She hopes the state and tribes can work together. Most of the concerns stem from is the state willing to respect their tribal sovereignty. And absolutely yes. That is important to us. We know it is important to tribal members and these agreements do uphold tribal sovereignty We also recognize that. Several of our tribes recently have declared emergency situations with the drug epidemics that they're seeing so we want them to know. There are resources available. Gnome is saying the state is willing to sit down with every tribe and work on agreements to address these problems. I'm Lisa Jupiter in peer. A new film looks at issues surrounding a tribe that has been declared extinct in the North West. Steve Jackson has more the film older than the crown looks at the case of Rick Desk Patel who was charged with hunting as a nonresident in British Columbia decimal is a member of the Colleville confederated tribes but more specifically of the cynics tribe which had been declared extinct in British Columbia back in nineteen fifty six film producer and fellow tribal member shelley. Boyd says she believes despite the fact that there were still numerous members of the tribe living at that time. The Canadian government was motivated by the need to develop hydro power in the region to actually make a declaration of extinction. That's clearing a road to do what you WanNa do which is happened. I mean what we have fourteen dams on the side of the line and then we have three more of it on one of the greatest rivers in this nation jump ahead of the present day when tribal members on the Colville reservation came up with a plan to challenge the limits that had been put on their tribes sovereignty by finding someone to go hunting in the ancestral tribal lands across the border in Canada. Rick Denzel volunteered for the job and after a successful elkhound across the border in Canada was cited for non-resident hunting since then three courts including the Supreme Court of British Columbia ruled in his favor cases now pending for the Supreme Court of Canada for National Native News. I'm Steve Jackson reporting from Spokane. The northern Arapaho tribe has received a large anonymous donation earmarked for recreational opportunities Wyoming Public Radio Savannah Mar reports. The Wind River reservation includes forests lakes and portions of two mountain ranges but tribal leaders. Say some kids. Don't have the opportunity to get out and enjoy the reservations natural beauty this four point. Seven million dollar donation aims to fix that northern ARAPAHO chairman Lee Spoon. Hunter says it will be spent on camping and hiking excursions for Arapahoe and shown youth down the road it might go towards the construction of a REC center. Look embiid we would like something with three basketball court of poll with slides and a workout room with weight classes for Yoga pilates. Different things like that. The money has been placed in an endowment fund to be managed by the Community Foundation of Jackson Hole Spoon. Hunter says that will help the money last longer arm Savannah Mar and demand. Tonia Gonzales. National Native News is produced Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting like the circle of life. There is an opportunity that comes around every ten years a chance to participate and let our voice be heard it. Lets others know who we are? And where are the twenty twenty cents? This will be our opportunity to shape our future for generations to come shape our future start here. Learn more at twenty. Twenty Census Dot Gov paid for by the US Census Bureau native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America calling. I'm Tara Gate. Would in North America program organizers are busy working to revitalize in reclaim traditional tribal languages. They range from total immersion schools for kids to adult language classes once a week. Some programs have flourished and are successful models for others in Wisconsin. The Ho Chunk language includes online independent. Study with the option of one one partnerships between learners influence speakers. The mashpee territory in New England has some program to The WOMP NO ACH. Language had no living speakers left but in nineteen ninety-three tribal member Jesse Dough. Little Bird began an effort to revive the language. She study linguistics at MIT and applied. What she learned within her tribe today there are classes and after school programs devoted to the language and finally a program funded by the -Tario Ministry of Education in Canada brings ojibway into daycare programs across the Providence. Where talking about language we're GONNA take language road trip today and you can get in on the discussion to join us at one. Eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight. That's also one eight hundred nine nine native and joining us from Fort Francis Ontario. Canada is Shannon. King She is the NFL Combine Moda Initiative manager and she is a treaty three member Shannon. Welcome and please feel free to further. Introduce yourself those you can pay indigo in Shannon King Disney. Because you're GonNa Shimon. Dotan News Dominican Indo G We watch tariff for having me Here's to speak with you all today. In court to sharing our initiative and to hearing about the other indigenous languages violation effort will many times. We have opened up this talking circle so that people can share just how important. The language is in even the process of how we get to. That point is an exciting one so shannon. Thank you for being here. Unlock some of that. And tell us a little bit about your programs The National Initiative is a partnership between the ten area first nation Seven Generations Education Institute which is governed by the ten area. First Nations The local ring or just a public school board And I and so. The initiative has many different And the seven year plan to revitalize and it should be more in within the homes of the initial made people and Hopefully bring forth some speakers and also some educated Language Teachers so we can put them back into the schools and continue into talk to us a little bit about The let's speak Ojibway one so initially being more Means let's speak with you. And so that's what our Elders committee on AAC renamed it was originally called the language strategy but they renamed it to the Let. Speak what you boy. So let's speak it in our homes in daycares in our schools And then our website is called waking up ojibway in a really important Teaching that comes for our elder about waking up Ourselves and our spirit to pick back our language and our teachings in our culture and what are some of the ways that you were waking up students as well as the speakers Right now we are focusing on our early years preschool program and so we go into Daycares and we Provide language learning opportunities on a monthly basis specifically for teachers. We supply honorarium for fluent speakers to come into the classroom to use language. We have curriculum Developer and resource developer who is creating language learning resources to use in the classroom? That are early years friendly That new owners can pick up or that fluent speakers can use to engage those those young minds in speaking Chevy one in so when you see these little ones. Our youngest citizens beacon the language speaking ojibway. How does that make you feel? It's actually a very good feeling To hear these little ones and to see their excitement you know it's something that I myself didn't grow with And so Being a part of putting it back in two little on flies and hearing them speak and and just how quickly they can pick it up. is pretty amazing and it speaks to. I think it speaks to everyone. Spirit in your heart and it just feels good knowing that These little ones are are able to pick it up way quicker than I can insulin. When our little ones speak they also bring it home in? Tell me about that. Are there any Little ones who are kind of teaching their own family billing which are waking up in their own household Yes we've had Parents share some videos of you know a little You know explaining the the environment around them. And then you start beating win I know myself I have four little girls and all the things that get them excited in school and they're learning they always bring home and teach. We also have a family program. Mrs Based on Interviewing family and community members and asking them. What are your barriers to language? Learning and one of them was childcare. Language cables were geared towards adults in so wasn't very inviting for young For young minds. And so what we did is we created a family program. And so it's an evening program where you come and you play with your child and you learn into shopping through through activities and games And having meals together and just doing those things that you would normally do as a family So that's every enforcing what those children are bringing home in house. That kind of activity differ from. Let's say maybe seen words on a chalkboard or Writing them down what you described of putting them into function. Why go that route because we learned through doing Also it's fun and there's a lot of anxiety that come from learners learning a new language making mistakes feeling judge. There's a lot of Language anxiety that comes around it creates a welcoming atmosphere where we're learning is important but having fun and playing time is more important than so creating those Those activities and those games in that space where you don't even really know that you're learning because you're having so much fun you're interacting with your family and you're doing it together and I feel like that helps. Reinforce some of those other Educational tools for language learning. And so folks. You're hearing a little bit about what's going on In Canada to keep the Ojibwa language strong wake it up as they say What are your thoughts? Join US today. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eat is the number and maybe you're working on language program for your own community. What are some of the methods that you have incorporated As well as putting the language to use or putting it into play were curious go ahead and share your stories today at one. Eight hundred nine six two eight four eight and so. Shannon we know there are lots of celebrations but there's also challenges and a Lotta Times win Practitioners get together. You end up talking about those challenges either to You know kind of throw things out there and hear what others are thinking or maybe even sharing the story of how you got through a challenge in so I'm curious What are some of the challenges? Your program has faced. Learning language has to be has come from within. So that's that's a bit of a challenge. going into the classroom and giving all the teachers all the reasons versus that they need audio to back it up. Books Is that individual isn't interested in learning language themselves Then it won't be as successful. What we have done is now. We focus a lot on the educator In the classroom and reviving their connection whether they are indigenous or not why the language important to those little ones to hear into learning to be a part of of their lives. Another challenge to that We realized just because you are speaker doesn't necessarily mean that you can teach language to a non speaker. It's a delicate Interaction in which you know approaching a learner can make or break. The success of that Learner's journey and so really focusing on Giving tools to speakers to help learners helping that conversation. Start out beforehand. So they're both on the same On the same level of of where we need to go to revitalize their language and bring it back into our homes in so when you talk about you know making language accessible or even just knowing how to I guess have patients too because when somebody's learning the language and you've spoke at your whole life and they aren't quite you know can't quite make their tongue make the correct sounds Sometimes you have to really back and I hear you when you say that. Not everybody just because you speak. It doesn't mean you teach it and Shannon Anything you WANNA share about those people who are struggling or even our little ones who are trying to pick some of this up Any words of encouragement absolutely. I think each Area and tribe has their own way in which to interact with The spirit of their language so furnish John Bay You can give tobacco and be patient with yourself and I think too like just that conversation a reminder about when you're speaking to a foon speakers because we're surrounded by A language. It's not ours. It's really easy to do default and that and just to remind those speakers around you To speak the language to you and to have patients But I always remind the speakers around me if you can. You know. 'cause they'll try a couple of times and sometimes you get blank stares but the more they speak the more. I learn so just I think. Go to your elders and your speakers and each tribal have their own way in which they feel will work best for them and so that's what we do. We listen to our speakers in our elders on our methods in Birmingham in sue. When we think about this I think of the many different language teachers heard Either conducting class where lesson or out in the community teaching language and they do it so exciting when they are just kind of opening up that space to new learners as well as people who speak the language in keeping this flow together is an easy. We're hearing about different methods that tribes are using. We'll hear about more coming up after the break but were also wanting to know what's being done in your community to keep the language strong to make sure there are more speakers that will take us into the future calling right now. One eight hundred nine six two eight four eight. The trump administration is pushing for changes to a fifty year old law that they say would streamline the Environmental Review Process for projects like pipelines and minds. Critics say the plans could undo decades of environmental protections will learn the potential effects on native nations on the next native. America calling liked the circle of life. There is an opportunity that comes around every ten years a chance to participate and let our voice be heard it. Lets others know who we are and where we are? The twenty twenty census will be our opportunity to shape our future for generations to come shape. Our Future Start here. Learn more at twenty. Twenty Census Dot Gov paid for by the US Census Bureau ear tuned into native America calling. I'm Tara Gatewood from she who blew my pleasure to have year with us and we are learning about a few native language programs today. And if you have something you like to share. Give us a call. The number is one eight hundred nine six two eight four eight and there's still time if you want to join the conversation go head in dial in now we're going to go ahead and keep our little journey going here Shannon King is also here with us out of Ontario Canada. If you have any words for her you can call in. She'll remain with us in right. Now we're GONNA take another move over to the Mashpee Massachusetts community to say hello to Jennifer. Weston she is the director of the WOMP now UK language reclamation project Jennifer is from the Standing Rock Sioux tribe. My pleasure to ever hear and Jennifer welcome and please feel free to further introduce yourself dot com pot net. Tessa Waste Jennifer Weston New Tomas standing. Rock Kanatani Cpi This all our daily much. Yuppie Naja will In a good afternoon friends my name is Jennifer and from standing rock but I work here in Ashby Inland. Would you introduce yourself in which I started in one off and finished in lock and so two in guages in? That is really exciting. Especially knowing that anytime you speak you're keeping the language alive and maybe even encouraging others to pick it up or reinforcing. What they know. And that's the beauty about language when you are Your ears kind of perk up in those those words They open up ally in today. You're going to continue to hear different languages And if you have any thoughts on that when you hear another need of nations speak What does that make you think of in your own community? One eight hundred nine nine six two eight. Four eight is the number to join us. And Jennifer tells a little bit about your program sure so the language reclamation project as you noted was founded in nineteen ninety three by Jesse Little Dilbert from here in Mashpee and also by Helen Manning from the trump and tribe and we're a five a one C three nonprofit. We serve four tribes here in Massachusetts on Cape Cod and the island of Martha's Vineyard so we served the Assan it The herring pond the Mashpee want pornography and the quinto lump and hug in Sioux win. These languages start flowing once again. After knowing that at one point the the speakers wall or the language had reached them a low point in now you take a look at where you are today Your thoughts of how far things have come. Yeah that growth has been really incredible. The work that Jesse did initially was to form this. Collaborative of four tribes and she was able to secure funding years later for a master apprentice program so she worked primarily with four young women who are now really the core of our language. Teacher team. Although our team has since grown to include about seven full time teachers we also work with some contract language teachers but we offer a language immersion. School called Weeden move cotton at don't comment which is a preschool and elementary womp. A story or pornography Montessori school we also offer language enrichment for the local public schools And World Language credit bearing courses for the middle in high school We have community classes elder classes summer camps. Family immersion counts. And then we do additional work like publishing children's books and phrasebook songbooks things like that. But it all really started with The grammatical studies that Jesse undertook and she was followed by two additional women from Mashpee who also studied linguistics at MIT and Are Among our most fluent speakers today the in so what are some of the challenges in Heaven a program where there wasn't any speakers left It means that our teachers bear the burden for teaching every generation in the community. So our teachers work with two year olds and ninety year olds. They're teaching their elders. The language since folks didn't have the opportunity to grow up with their mother tongue for probably five to seven generations But the language has been reclaimed through the extensive written documentation that was created by one pornography and other Algonquin language. Speaking folks in the northeast so there are thirty eight sister languages to dog and a huge written record that was created by missionaries working with northeastern gone. Kian speaking people including the woman here Out ON CAPE COD. So it requires a lot of work in terms of teacher training but also Modernizing the language building. The dictionary is a project. That's been ongoing for the past twenty years So they're just a lot of of areas of work that have to be accomplished and sometimes it feels like all at once But what we've really done. In terms of mobilising. Language resources is focused on the younger speakers. So that we are ensuring that there's a cohort of young children ages three to seven who are growing up speaking the language together every day for anywhere from five to seven hours a day and that way in twenty years there will there will. There will be young people who can speak the language. They'll have others in their community to speak at two But at the same time we do recognize we have to provide learning opportunities to everyone among the four tribes here. So that's why we have dedicated classes for elders for example Summer programs community classes in the evenings and on weekends and even some family immersion camps over some long weekends A couple times a year in. So how many speakers do you have now? So every week we're serving roughly one hundred fifteen people so that includes all the children in the local public schools Roughly eighty children are so in the local public schools. We have twenty seven children enrolled in. We move school are immersion school and then generally there's anywhere from five to ten elders who come to language classes and then there's usually one or two community classes happening at any given time Are Fluent speakers are really the children and our schools and our cohort of about a dozen adult language teachers? Who are all second? Language learners insult people were able to go to the preschool. What they they win this They would witness especially if they're familiar with Montessori education. They would see a classroom. That in some ways looks very similar to when you might see at court Jibbidy Pueblo or up at Seneca There's other tribal communities Who have mentored US and guided US in taking? This Montessori Approach But we try to incorporate company culture and adapt aspects of Montessori Education To fit more closely with local practices. So you might see children working with Deer Skins or Different kinds of local co hog shells to learn about Jewelry or you might see Students working on the beat Cabinet which you would see in any Montessori classroom. But they're learning you know the base ten decimal system in one dog language in so I'm putting this out to our listening audience. If this kind of environment was available to your children What would that change calling now? One eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight is number. And how do you feel when you hear young or even our elders speak the tribal language that you are connected to calls right now? One eight hundred nine nine six two eight. Four eight is the number and you mentioned classes. Elders Jennifer tells a little bit about how they differ from other native language classes. That people can find so the older classes were started I think around three or four years ago at the request of elders who felt that our grammar and workbook focused courses. We're just not really meeting them where they were out. In terms of wanting to begin their language journey at an older age Our elders really WANNA learn to pray and their language. That's usually one of their top priorities. They WANNA learn kinship terms. They want to learn the songs at their grandchildren. No and their input has really shaped and reshaped all of our teaching environments because they've inspired publications like the One dog language Prayer Book. That's now in its second addition It includes several dozen prayers that were written by Jesse in collaboration with elders and It's a tool that we use in every setting whether we're in the public schools whether we're in our own immersion. School and students are opening their day together in prayer That that approach was really Instilled as a central focus for learning By the guidance of elders who felt that that was really the first thing that they wanted to learn to do as they were becoming new students of this language that had been sleeping in their community for so many generations. I understand that there is a summer camp any details on that you like to share sure so every year I think for the past seven or eight years. Wip has offered a summer. Youth Program called Summer Turtle Generally we serve anywhere from fifteen to forty five children. This year will probably work with around thirty five students and children range in ages from five to twelve years old and we incorporate a lot of language and culture based Educational Activities. weaving Canoeing but also a lot of fun. Things like trips to local beaches and learning about although local ecosystems And all the ways that trouble families are still living off the land Summertime is obviously a huge time per agricultural practices and Berry picking and Different types of ocean fishing shellfishing. So we try to connect students with with that kind of activity but who the language in the seasons truly are teachers in especially when you were speaking about the language because so much of it integrated into talking about the land As well as you know are different understandings of what. The seasons are four two in an exciting to hear that There is kind of a rotation of some of that going on and do you think that a person picks up a language faster. If they're doing things like this as opposed to other methods share your thoughts. We know you've got thoughts on all of this. Go ahead and dial in now. One eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is a number Jennifer. Thank you for sharing that. I also want to bring in another guest who's also in Mashpee Joining us on the line is Brian. Weeden he is a language teacher trainee elected member of the wind. The MASHPEE WOMP WOMP analog tribal council and he is also a member of the tribe. My pleasure to have him here. Brian Welcome and feel free to further. Introduce yourself when IKI sucked our Good Day I talked with Brian. Moskva The Tomas my Sepia cutoff of CPS. I'm Brian Moscato. Which is Berhard and I come from. Mashpee live in Mashpee master my CPA is the place of the great waters. I and world member of the tribe and serve as the youngest elected member of the Mashburn on tribal council outside of Tribal Council. I work as a teacher training for the Mash Up. Not Cry Education Department Working Week. You the Children's House Montessori language school located in Mashpee at the mashed up on tribes comedian government center in so just knowing the journey your own language in the words that you shared with us today kind of took You know kind of grew eggs in started really moving at a speed that wasn't so decades ago. And what do you think of all that bright I think it's a beautiful thing to see it. Come back They talk about a lot of prophecies and stuff and that the language would come home when we were ready One thing people have to understand is that you know the inaugural want people walking in the original people just like wow abachi You know with the original people that you know the ones that are the eastern. That's why it's our job to greet the Sun and English. I came here. We were alternately. The I n pigs you know They try to decolonize Us and everything else and you know. Send US away to boarding schools and you know prohibited from speaking our language The Mash up and on tribe We were praying town or praying Indians. And that's why we were fortunate enough to stay where we were however we did still practice ceremony and cultural Teachings out in the natural around You know in the woods and such We do have you know. A church called the meeting house where we do a lot of our ceremonies and stuff today. I'm seeing our elders there and speaking billing and saying prayers in the language in our youth. That are powwow. You know showcasing their songs and stuff you know. It's really a great and beautiful thing I'm only twenty seven years old so I was a baby when this project I started So I'm just happy to see you know the things have happened and have be a little bit of part of my life and help make me into the person I am today in. So what was it that made you want to pick up the language and of course wind take place Growing up my dad You know was raised by his parents. His father is actually Narragansett peak. they were raised in Charlestown Rhode Island and his mother's mashed dog And they were raised. You know to do cultural educational programs and stuff You know in my father's name is Anna Won- you know. Which is you know a name of a state of war. Satan subsystem That was around after King. Philip's war who's actually the last one they probably have King Philip's belts and stuff before the English took them So you know a lot of my uncles and stuff have made of memes and such So you know language has always been there and apart. Um but my father was the one that started going to like language class When they first started doing the beginning work And he would come and he would try to teach us certain things and then when I got out of high school and graduated in two thousand eleven Is when I really started getting more involved. You know with the language project You know working for them. The following year for the Summer Turtle Camp and then going on to be apprentice trainee and working with them to develop curriculum for the school and things like that And working on the board currently I serve as the vice president but acting president for the language Reclamation Project Board of directors I wear multiple hats within our language department and Community. And it's just a beautiful thing to see. Everything happened in. What kind of excitement have you seen coming from? The young people have access to this. It's amazing to see the young people because we offer high school classes well and we're actually you know on. They're going to get a BI literacy seal this year on their diplomas after completing the three years So that's really a great thing to see our high school students. You know really engaged and we actually have one of our highschoolers that graduated that currently works for us the project and goes to the local community college So that's amazing to see them already starting to step up in our community And then just the young people As a teacher training. I'm in the school. The Montessori classrooms and just walked into the students. You know remind each other to be good friends and stuff to one another In saying things in their language you know Is really just amazing thing and we'll continue this conversation. Brian joins us today at a Mashpee Massachusetts. He is an elected member of the MASHPEE. Womp analog tribal council and so there you go. This is also entering another arena. Of course we need dedicated teachers. We need spaces to do this. But what about even the support of our tribal leaders Is there a tribal leader that you are really proud of the road that they have taken a two maybe even revitalize the language or maybe they got elected to council and then they started learning and saw that as a priority To be a good leader any thoughts on that call us right now. One eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is a number. Everybody's welcome to this conversation We know we have a very big audience. And maybe you don't come from a tribal community of but you just like to share some thoughts about hearing what these different nations are doing to keep their language strong End Maybe even allies. What can you do to make sure that native nations have the ability to do this Go ahead share your thoughts to everybody's welcome today. One eight hundred nine nine six. Two four eight is the number. You're welcome to call in your also. Welcome to speak your language to if you want to share your response in your language. Go ahead and do it. But he got a dial now. One eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight support by be NSF RAILWAY. Moving our economy for over one hundred sixty five years. Our vision is to operate injury accident. Free with safety programs training and technology more at B. NSF DOT com slash tribal relations support for journalism that raises the awareness of child wellbeing. To citizens into policymakers provided by the Annie E. Casey Foundation building a brighter future for children families and communities information at. Cf DOT org. This is native America Calling Tara Gatewood and if there are words you want to share dial in now one eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is the number and with us at a Mashpee. Massachusetts is a language teacher. Trainee is an elected member. The MASHPEE WOMP non tribal council. Brian Weeden my pleasure to have him here in brand. I do want to get your thoughts about how important it is that we do have tribal leadership understanding and making her language. A priority I think that that's the great question And I think that it's important for tribal leadership To support our language efforts Some tribes you know do have language requirements and such You know we've seen things like that happen you know with the Navajo Nation On someone was trying to run for president and they had to do the language Fluency tests and stuff and Some tribes require our tribe does not require it even though I do. Kinda wish that we did have something like an introductory class or just you know how to introduce yourself because I think that's always important when you go out and you travel To bring a little bit of who you are and where you come from So just a basic you know. Hello this is my name. This is where I'm from I think it's important and I took it upon myself to make sure that you know I did support the language and learn the language just because I wanted to learn the language This is something I've wanted to do away before you know. Travel Council or anything else came into play but is really critical and important At the council table Bank shore that you know if we do have language items and stuff that you know we see to it And we take care of that businesses soon as possible And support the language school on. That's why they are housed in the tribal government center and Community Center You know and when they do have requests for Tribal Council I do make it a point to you. Know what the tribal council no you know how important and crucial this work is Which is a kind of a battle? Sometimes when some people don't really see you know that because they're so colonized ways You know some people. Don't respect the language just because of personal issues or you know there's been other issues too with the language in the community but As a whole you know it's really great to see our tribal leadership support them. Because you know we need to get back to that. Because that's what's GonNa make our future leaders better leaders And that's what I am firm believer and you know these kids that are going into the school this language school. They're going to be way better leaders than any of us can be because they're going to be grounded in their culture and their tradition from learning that language. And so Brian. If you've got a chance to speak to your ancestors do you think they'd understand you Yeah I believe that they would understand me because of just my own encounters and things that I've had Happen and you know Speaking in my language and making sure that I try to pray in my language as much as I can and Introduced myself and you know things like that And it's really important one of my favorite You know throughout the research and things were done and really understanding the meanings. One of my favorite examples is when we introduced ourselves and we say new Toma New Tomas. Literally means my blood and my bones is from this land. That's where we're from. You know. We believe that you know if you eat from the land you drink from the land and you wanted to land in the land as you and that's why we're the Mashpee wapping on the my. Cpa bump into people you know because we've been in this time and place for time immemorial you know so just understanding those things really helps you relate to you know your ancestors and see how you know they thought. I'm GonNa truly just an amazing beautiful thing when you start unfolding all the beautiful things that are in the language Brian. It truly is thank you for sharing your story you can share yours too at one. Eight hundred nine nine six two eight four eight your story about learning the language or even supporting language learners one eight hundred nine six two eight. Four eight is our number and we're GONNA continue on this journey. We are now going to go to Moscow in Wisconsin to say hello to Adrian Thunder. She is the division manager for the whole Chunk Language Division and she is Ho Chunk our pleasure to have her here in. Adrien pleased to further. Introduce yourself thank you hi. He's your kitchen cutting gateway junk Rajaa. Who CAN GUIDE EGGY my head I should I Adrian Thunder and as you said I've I serve as the current language division manager here in Boston I've been in the job for almost four years And I think I represent a lot of people from my generation Who HAVE HEARD. Ho Chunk quite a bit growing up Heard it in our families and our communities and probably learned quite a bit of vocabulary But did not catch on for become fluent speakers ourselves and so that is the generation of the parents and grandparents that We're a part of right now trying to extend the reach of the language that we had and for the speakers that are also still here To give them an avenue in places to share the language so that we can continue the teaching learning process Also formerly. I GUESS. I'm a doctoral student in educational leadership and Policy Analysis and that was really my my entry into language. The Language Program We're develop to the point now. Where as many of your guests have said. Already developing ways of teaching and learning. That will help meet the needs of the diverse needs of the learners that we represent so whether it's the youngest learners there at the preschool level or the older ones in the community One of the things that I wanted to talk about and I know we're getting pressed for time so I wanted to make sure that I mentioned. This is our first listener program so One of the things that we do is we recognize that there again. Our generation of people who who grew up hearing the language and are familiar with it enough that they understand quite a bit. And there's a lot of the sounds of the language that they're familiar with already so what they need is them Supplementary help to get them to be actual speakers of the language and that's something that we've taken on in the last year or so and it's actually entering year two and it's Gotten quite a few Really great reviews In addition to that there's quite a few entries into the digital area. We've developed a digital library of all of our holdings We converted everything from reel to reel cylinders into digital form. And we're making all of that information available to our learners wherever they might be That's been a pretty ambitious project of ours. we've done the last four years and then also Making available of course in many ways that your other guests have mentioned Whether it's in person classes online classes just developing as many varied ways of reaching our learners as we can and so you mentioned digital in going digital Sometimes comes with controversy What type of considerations should you take in in putting things online? Yeah we are definitely in the middle of that right. Now we're having conversations with our On Department of Justice and consulting with information on Nagpur and other issues regarding The types of information that we put on the website One of the really great Items that we're looking at right now is a content management system that is being used by many indigenous Culture keepers at this point. It's called Muka too. And it's something that we've gone in partnership with the University of Wisconsin and their information school and we've had we've been working with them for the last three years on developing This content management system. And what it does is create communities and levels of access so Those who might be interested general public level. We'll have one level of access and then there will be graduated other levels of access based on either tribal membership Klan membership If there's You know Knowledge keepers that need to have specific areas of things that they WANNA make. Sure stay within the tribal archives. You know we can take care of those things. So it's a pretty exciting development and We're GONNA we're happy to see it takes shape and Are Hoping to see a great impact overtime. A lot of times. We hear two or have also heard from educators materials. We need something that we can use to teach us something that students can also keep learning from once the classroom. Time where the meeting time is over it and so you've worked on this in talk to me a little bit about that process and figuring out Do we make a book Do we put something. That is interactive Some thoughts about creating some of those materials. Yeah we've been Following the demand of our learners really I think the younger ones of course you know. They're digital natives in addition to being native They they wanted to see more apps. They WANNA see more interactive online materials All of our younger learners and of course Those who are in our adult community classes they expectation now is to see APPs to see Various ways of accessing language resources online. And so we were trying to meet that demand Online classes are pretty Growing area that we need to address also and The pilots that we've started are now growing into more regular programming and They're they're taking off. It's it's been really great to see that level of Attention and Demand for it in about also translating books for Children. Tell me about that. Yeah so I think even from our early days in nineteen ninety-three when our program was established. We knew that starting with the young learners was the best way for Language to have some longevity and so early on we wanted to find ways of reaching the youngest learners songs books You know videos of any kind And then of course interactive play and whatever we could do with our younger learners Are Imminent speakers have been really great about Looking at different ways of reaching our younger learners and They take the time to do a lot of our translations whether it's books whether it's songs whether it's Again any of the online material that we have. We're fortunate to have a group of about thirteen eminent speakers fulltime on staff working with us and They work on various projects but a lot of them do a lot of the translation works and they've been so great at Offering their ideas and their support. How does it make you feel seeing those speaker sharing the language? I feel Oh I can't even tell you there probably isn't words. I'm gratified I'm I'm grateful that they are with us that they are In developing a lot of patients with us as learners And again because we are taking up so many new tools that they're willing to do whatever it takes to to preserve and to further our language learning and they've they've taken to these tools as well It's been really fantastic to see them Whether it's distance learning whether it's Participating videoconferencing They're a little skittish about actually handling the technology themselves but the fact that there So willing to be a part of these measures is just really fantastic. You remind me of seen a class of seniors from my own community describing the computer and said this is a mouse in just the look on their face That's funny Adrian. We know that all of this is a journey. Personal journey to whether it is Supporting people to keep the language alive whereever picking up the language for ourselves anything you want to share about your introduction into learning the language or either keeping it strong. Yeah absolutely like I said. I think I'm probably Pretty typical of the people of my generation I've entered the fifties from the forties into the fifties now But I think a lot of my peers probably grew up hearing language more commonly than a lot of the generations since mine since ours and We WanNa make sure that you know the knowledge that has been passed on to us the way of life that we value is something that carries on after us just like so many generations before us. WE WANNA make sure that Our children have the means in their everyday. Lives to hear and be a part of of that way of life and so You know we do the best that we can to honor The legacy that was left to us all of the richness of our way of life stories the songs the ceremonies all of that continues on and is therefore our children our grandchildren and for many generations thereafter For Myself I think as some of your other guests have said already You know there's a lot to overcome. There's with us. We have a geographic dispersal We cover about the lower half of Wisconsin and then into Minnesota and Northern Illinois. So it's a lot of territory for us to cover and our membership actually is worldwide. Really and I think that's the case with a lot of tribes but Trying to get the language to the people who want to learn and to be able to maintain that effort over time is a real challenge for us but again we are driven by our commitment to our ancestors and did the people who I've worked so hard to give us what we have to work with. Today we are greatly indebted to them and very grateful that we have as much as we do here with us in each region. Can you share some ho-chunk with us? Anything you WANNA share. Oh Gosh well just to let you know to that I'm myself I'm in a novice. I'm a novice speaker of the language so I kind of feel like I would. I wouldn't necessarily do Good Service to the to the language myself As I said. My background was primarily in education and And and again that's another thing that I wanna add to this to the program that may be hasn't been mentioned already I did feel a great deal of trepidation. Coming into the language division from education I actually served previously as our executive director of our department of Education. And at the time my goal was to think about How we use education to help further tribal Goals and this is definitely one of the areas That definitely needs that level of support I remember hearing your show a few weeks ago and Anton Troy was talking about. You know there needs to be people who are doing. The support work That language programs needed. I think that's definitely the case here. the few years that I've been here in the language. Division I've seen Again with the development of the materials and the work with various learning communities and especially going into the digital around There are areas of expertise. That definitely need the support and I want to. I guess. Put a plug in there for any of the young people who might be listening to this if you're going to college for Communications for Education for Anything that you think could help lend support to language programs. Don't count it out just because you don't have the language skills to back it up that you will learn the more that you engage with it so i WanNa put the puck out there. You can serve your community in a number of ways and Adrian. I want to commend you for understanding. Exactly where you are with the language and Just knowing that you are on this journey to pick it up get stronger with it is important and even knowing where you are in when you're ready to speak and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us on that too because there are people who can relate and when you're ready we're here for you too. We look forward to hearing more stories about Your Journey. In picking up your language you can always reach out to us. You can even send us tweet at one. Eight hundred nine native. That's going to wrap it up for our program and thank you to everybody. We heard from Shannon King Adrian Thunder Jennifer Weston and also Brian Weeden. Thank you for being here with us. Today we hope you'll come back again tomorrow because we're going to have a conversation about proposed changes to the national environmental policy. Act Got some thoughts on that. Start the conversation right now on facebook. Just look up native America calling. 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T+146: Loren Grush on Commercial Crew, Starlink, NASA Authorization, and More

Main Engine Cut Off

54:26 min | 1 year ago

T+146: Loren Grush on Commercial Crew, Starlink, NASA Authorization, and More

"Hello and welcome to main engine cutoff. I'm Anthony clench low as always and we've got a real good one today we're going to be joined by Lauren. Rush of of the verge. She's back it's been a while since we've had her on some talk with we're GonNa Talk Commercial Crew Star Liner Dragon aboard tests. Probably get into some starlink space policy. LC It's GonNa be a nice nice episode that cruise through all the topics that we've been chatting about of late so it's It's going to be good one but before we get there. I want to say a huge. Thank you to everyone who supports main. Engine Cutoff every single month. For three hundred. Sixty six of you supporting over at main engine cutoff dot com slash support including thirty seven executive producers. Who who made this episode possible? Thanks to Brandon Chris. Pat Matt George Brad Ryan Dean Peter. Donald Lee Chris Warren Bob Russell John Maurice Jol Yon Grant. Mike David Mintz UNICEF ROB. Tim Dodd the everday astronaut. Frank Julian and Lawrence from Agile Space Tommy Adam and six anonymous executive producers. If you'd like to join that list let's head over to main engine cutoff dot com slash support. It helps keep this thing. Going gets a little extra in your podcast. Feed every single week for MECO headlines around through all the stories always the week great way to stay up on what is going on so head over there to support but for now. Let's give Laura Nicole. Hello Lauren welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me. It has been quite a while. I know and I've been sad. I've been waiting for this call. You've been busy. You've been traveling when you've been on site at launches and things he adds to Most recently was advocate for the inflatable test. That spacex texted which was really unique launch for sure anytime I can go for a new launch experience of their you know rockets usually launched the more or less the same anyway the first part of the same but right exactly what is it like covering a launch that ends eleven minutes. It's just very much. A big burst of Journal in. And then you're like oh I need to go actually write about this to run inside and actually do work. I don't get that like our of waiting for payload deploy or whatever else for your officially done. You just gotTa do it all right then. Yeah we knew it'd be over pretty quickly and it really. I didn't really know what quite to expect because beforehand. They told us. Oh well it might break apart when you hear that you don't really you know what that means. Is it split in half. We did not. I did not expect it to explode as it did. Sorry they like to use the term fireball. But I in every time I talked to a rocket company their spin is never to say the word explode. You cannot say it's it's a fireball or it's what I don't know I don't care like that thing exploded and we all saw it. I hate that I mean I get it when there's things like the almost six incident from years ago but like this was this was going the way that we thought it was gonNA go right. I guess the technical terms if if you need it for your engineering speak in to determine you know the source of an accident sure use whatever praising you but when I describe it to people do not work in engineering I will describe. It doesn't explosion. Unfortunately we couldn't see it from the ground because of the cloud cover her. which was such a bummer? But we did hear this is a this is a youth thing right because you were at the eclipse but you had those sprint to get cloud. I think that's just being you know out in nature you can't control the clouds at all times Yes I did get to see the eclipse though but this one couldn't move out of way to see the explosion But was really cool. was we did see that rocket. I guess it was later determined. It was the second stage falling rapidly. Eh through the sky it looked a bit like a bomb coming down and then when it hit the water it created this huge cloud of smoke and debris three and so that also looked like a bomb had gone off in the water so that was pretty neat. Which of these events did you hear from? Where did you hear everything or was there some stuff? That was a little muffled old. All we heard was what sounded like a sonic boom. So I'm assuming that is. It was either the explosion in or it was maybe the second stage coming back at such high speeds. We heard some boom and we weren't expecting that that was pretty neat as well especially because I mean it was pretty far down range at that point. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I think that's what I didn't quite realize before I went is that even if even if there wasn't cloud cover I think it was still pretty difficult to see at least as for the photographers. They needed extra sensitive equipment to to pick it up so it would have been cool to see it. I did get to see the video. My husband later. He joked how you saw it first. Because he was watching the live stream that mattered more than me. Not Seen it now. Being there for it's pretty awesome because I'm sure you know everything that goes around launches always so fun as well so yeah. Yeah it's also I think of them as many high high school reunion because at this point all the same people go or the people that from other publications that I know that are that work the same beat as me. Are there air so I see those people probably more than some of my friend groups because we're all constantly getting together for these similar events so it's Kinda neat and so what was the vibe like after the mission down there because it was hot on the heels of the Boeing star liner stuff. which we'll talk about next so there was? There was definitely definitely that flavored. The abort tests an interesting way because we were all just really upset about commercial crew stuff and then now we had a really good success. So was there any of this kind of like tragedy comedy going on there. Definitely it at that. I don't know if you watch the press conference afterwards but things got a loopy in my you know I it was almost I want to say it not say anyone was drunk but there was a very jovial vibe going on which I always enjoy but I definitely think maybe that was you know coming off. The heels of the star liner tests. People were so happy that it went so well they were giddy and Yulon was very giddy at the at the end there. So I don't know maybe that had to do with the starter tests. Maybe not but it it certainly made for a very interesting press conference when we were there and part of. It's probably is the relief that this test went after last April we saw the DM. I'm one capsule explode right getting ready for the abort test back then so there's that playing into it as well. This is a long road from there to here right and this kind of I feel you'll like it. Seals the deal for that investigation. They had closed the investigation earlier with the static fire by felt like this was kind of the the real. You know. Finish line that they were looking forward to close that out so I don't really pleased with that. So what do you think we are at with SPACEX. Now we heard that hardware is going to be at the Cape Pretty soon and they're looking like a cue to launch for DM to wondering if you've got any thoughts on that because there's also do you know everything that's going into this is looking like DM to will get extended to be a longer duration flight to the I assess. Where do you think we're out with all that well from what I understand understand so I think they there's there's different milestones that are very clear but the hardware will be at the Cape at the end of February and then beyond that they still have to do more work when it gets to the Cape so just because it arrives does is not mean that it's done yet and so that once that work is finished then you have the analysis in the reviews to do before you can say that people can fly on it So yeah I don't know I would just I think I'm thinking summertime summertime seems like a good time for that to happens. So that's that's what my crystal ball says. I don't know your vacation plans. I don't have any vacations plan so once going my honeyman which is in February. I am purposefully. Not Making any concrete plans other than weddings that we've been invited to but I hate to say it If the wedding the wedding falls accrued launch right house to make an excuse to bow out. I mean that's a this this is I can't think of anything more important that I've covered. Then these upcoming crew launches Falcon. Heavy was such a big deal. Oh but that was still more fun than anything. This is going to be such an important milestone. Both for SPACEX or Boeing or for you and for the country and I think it's GonNa be a massive type of press event when we're out there. I I was actually explaining to people during the implied abort board tests that pretty sure that the crude launches will be the worst day of my life. Absolute circus down there for that. We'll just just think about it. I mean yeah it's harder to do when you're it's harder to work when you're on location as fun as it is. It's harder second it. There's going to be so many more people well there which is gonNa make it absolute mayhem. I will probably have a camera crew with me. So that's my own people that I need to take care of so I'll have to be shooting video and we'll have to be writing breaking news and Yeah it's just I can't i. I think I'M GONNA. I'll have to take vacation when satisfied. Because that's it's GonNa be very stressful and you're right that it's going to be like Falcon. Heavy was a huge deal. But I think when you're when you're thinking about why Falcon heavy was a big deal. It was because ause of things that it would affect later whereas commercial crew is a huge deal right now like yes. Mission is the big thing you know since the last a shuttle flight this is probably the biggest launch that NASA will have done you know maybe even beyond that right and found can have you always kind of a peripheral referral thing. I mean it was something we were like. It was always on the horizon and just kind of like. Oh maybe we'll get some day and so really didn't feel very necessary just felt fun whereas with this I mean I've been covering the commercial crew program since I've been on this beat and since the very beginning and so I feel much more attached to it and also I mean they added layer of people. I mean that's just I I make a rule no matter better win or what time of day I will watch the crude launches on the soya's it just doesn't feel right to not watch them especially especially I mean he say it but you know with mccague's flight that proved to be a true. You know if something goes wrong you know. I don't no no I don't want to say I don't want to jinx it but it's just it feels important to make sure that they're okay. I know that I'm not doing anything to help them. Be Okay but just feel more comfortable lodging it. So that's kind of how I feel. And then the fact that I've been following the development for so long has that added layer and I've met I've met the astronauts. Ed Are GonNa Be Flying Multiple Times so there is that connection to it as well so yeah and and certainly we've in the past. We've heard you talk with your parents who worked on the shuttle program back in the day. You have historical context and current context which is really cool to you. Know that you're looking at it from that angle. One one thing I wonder with commercial crew. There's obviously there was always going to be a lot of pressure on these missions but if things went on schedule right like these were flying. What was the original date? Two Thousand Sixteen two thousand seventeen twenty was what they were saying when they worded the final contracts so if if things went on schedule and we're talking three years ago and these are going to happen. There's not as much pressure that like. At any moment we are at risk of losing access to the assess because things were more stable with Soyuz flights. Lights back then. We had more flying there weren't we weren't always on these skeleton crews on the ISS where there's one NASA astronaut and two Russian astronauts that's right so the fact that that's were in this state where we're at risk of losing access to the Isis pretty constantly. You know if we have another mccague situation exactly it ramps it up to another level that I don't think NASA wanted it to get to that point but unfortunately we are at that point now. Yeah it makes me wonder if if they if the fact that we're launching in in twenty twenty really truly come as a surprise for the program because you know all programs are late in the space world world but it seems like this really did catch them by surprise in terms of how long it was going to take. Because they didn't have I mean they really waited. Wait until the last minute to like okay. Maybe we do need an extra soya's see you know they keep doing that and I always get rant about this 'cause like three years ago there. There's always this fearmongering when they would appear in front of Congress. That Soyuz lead time was like three years that they couldn't. They had to order one three years in advance of when they needed it which I was always bullshit. John was not there cleanly. They're fudging that and use that as leverage to get the money that they needed or whatever we try and more more power to them but yeah. It doesn't seem like that three year lead time is absolutely critical. And it's I get it in the moment you WanNa make sure you've got funding. They were fighting with Congress for funding back in the early days of the program. So I get that but it does compromise your position later on down the line. So maybe they were banking on not needing to prove that they could order a Soyuz six months before they need one. They were hoping that would never come up to be proven wrong. But at this point it's hard to trust really we've never had a lot of openness thinness from NASA about the relationship with ordering soya sauces. That's weird multiple words. But so you know I don't think we'll ever hear more info and how they go about that process or what it cost or anything like that we really have no insight into that. That's always been shady to me like a bad way but like it's weird. It's a weird. The thing that the Russian partnership is so bizarre to me especially. Because you know there's been a lot of criticism about the commercial crew program. In how stringent the safety requirements are and how you have to have this rating of okay you the. I can't remember the exact number right. Now what is it like one two hundred someone that one out of two hundred chances that you know the slight will. We'll go badly that day. They don't have that rating for the soya's and they probably never will and yet we're totally comfortable. Putting our astronauts on this way is is because of this bizarre partnership that we have with them. We have there's no there's no other option real exactly. It just goes to show that like all of these things is that we put on ourselves are self inflicted which I guess that makes sense. There's no other way to do this other than to make the rules ourselves but it is kind of curious just how the standards change based on the relationships with the partners and that is a fantastic segue to talk a little bit about star liner because You're you're a pro. So the star liner mayhem that we had going on. I think it's it's good that we're talking about this now because I haven't really talked about it in the show much judge. Everything's changing all the time. But we've got some distance. Now we've heard a couple of more tidbits it's funded dig into at this point. We have to go. I mean I don't know how tech-heavy your listeners are okay. Let's go in on the explanation that they had because I have some questions about it still love it. A Ha- have an understanding but I would love to hash it out okay. So from my understanding they clock so the star liner internal clock accidentally gently grabbed the time from our Gla- grabbed the wrong time from the atlas and thought it was what eleven eleven hours later and so because it was at the wrong time the the main engines that it uses to raise the orbit it did not fire because it thought. Oh it's eleven hours later. I've already fired my engines but the thrusters that are used to stabilize the star later when it raises. Its orbit didn't fire because they're on a timer which I don't understand why they're on different timers to begin with. Why aren't they all on the same cloth? Whatever uninjured near so I will not out. I digress but anyway what I guess what I want. My confusion came in was okay. If the thrusters were always always was fired during that orbit raising maneuver. How did that make them? Run out of fuel. I guess what I later learned that. Oh will they ended up raising the orbit later but then the rest are said to fire again and that was too much fuel to waste. And that's why they couldn't go to. The International Space Station died. Get that from what you understand. Does that make accents you I that is exactly as I understand it. It you know the the problem with this issue that you hit on is it sounds so oh basic like how different timers wise. The clock wrong. It's issues that when you tell them. Do People confused as to how it ever happened. It's such a bad issue. Compared to all the other issues you hadn't commercial crew have been like somewhat weird or even the spacex the Falcon nine back. It's like nobody even understands what liquid oxygen is so already. You're in this weird territory where it's like. Well that does sound dangerous. And this is a clock issue I know for my job. It's extremely daunting because I'm like okay. How do I explain this? Incredibly complex bolts process to someone who doesn't even know what you know especially when it's not even really known own yet that was the best guess they had and then now I think I don't know if it was picked up anywhere else but Eric Berger got some scoops that even among those thrusters there there were issues with the thrusters themselves. Some didn't fire rice from failed during the firing process. So it doesn't even sound like that part went. Well I I WANNA clarify if I did speak with Doug Lavoro recently. WHO said that? He contradicted that a slightly. But I think that's also like NASA. Does you know they just saying that. The thrusters did do as they were supposed to. I don't know I'm looking forward to more complex. You know right up of what whatever NASA finds 'cause I'll be very interested to read it and now it sounds like Boeing's doing some accounting trickery in case they need to Order another test flight of star liner. So yeah I wouldn't take that as any confirmation that is happening but they obviously Boeing is in a stressful time. Time a company right now so. They're doing whatever they need to themselves. I think it's a good. Pr Move as much as a practical move. Yeah I I don't know I could see it going either way but I think you know going back to what you said earlier. This is the high stakes and the fact fact that NASA was kind of banking on doing that extended mission with the Boeing flight crew. I think that they will probably I mean and this is just my gut but I feel like they'll probably make an excuse now to have to do that. Second on grief I test. Yeah I think so so as well and I I honestly what would you if you were. WHO's your decision? Would you make them flying on crude one my decision I don't know It's is what we're doing here. We're I know I know. Let me remind everyone. I'm not an engineer. I mean if it's look if it truly if you truly can demonstrate that the system can work without doing that automatic docking process. Then I guess us. That's fine but I I just feel like when it comes if they're being so strict with these standards. I would feel a lot better knowing that it's done that process in space before and it can be done. Yeah I get conflicted because And I tie this back to. It was like maybe two years ago now when they were considering putting crew on at the time. Am One in the first flight of SOS and and that never made any sense because the payoff for that what you get out of taking that risk was just not there like there was nothing other than you know pr stunt and the astronauts. Obviously would I love flying to somewhere near the moon. There wasn't anything concrete that you get out of taking that risk and with this knowing the context that we are at risk of losing access assisted the ISS knowing what stakes are on non Astros. Open the Isis that risk seems worth if the astronauts are willing to fly on that that spacecraft base growth for sure. Yeah the stakes are definitely higher and I could see NASA figuring out a way to make it work just because they're an let's be real. We could have some unknown anomaly. Happen between now and when we're supposed to fly no one expected the crew dragon to just explode during a tat you know and and no not knocking space x but it just you know you don't plan for those do things. And that was a huge setback. I mean SPACEX. I mean we can debate all day long if they were actually going to fly last year but definitely definitely really made it certainly work and apply last year So who knows what could happen. You know in the interim and so I yeah like you said the stakes are are high end if an in my opinion if they truly can find a way to demonstrate that dogging ability without actually doing it space. I don't know oh how you do that. But if there is a way to get that data and prove that out than I mean it seems like a reasonable thing to move ahead with to the crude mission and and you're right like dragons got one flight under star liners got we give it like a sixty percent rating or whatever it is. It's not a massive difference in sample. This is certainly we look back to shuttle that had plenty of flights under it before we started discovering some pretty nasty bits. Yeah so it's it doesn't necessarily like one flight is not good enough to say we are a hundred percent confident. We're getting to the station. That's never going to be realistic. So there is always some risk. You know yeah and there's there that's that's the thing so I don't know if you are familiar with my earlier work at the verge but When I first started at the company I wrote this op? Ed had that pissed everybody off I said early on. I never made anyone angry No it was. The title was stop saying spaces. Hard hospice is hard. Oh my God thank you. It wasn't in. The article is very clear as like. It's not because space is easy. Of course space is hard like that. It's just we can't keep saying space. It's hard word after something goes wrong because it's just a way for us to not move forward and to just accept failure. What what my and mom says is not that space is hard as spaces risky and I think that's a better Idiom to to follow way. Better better supportive of your mom in this case. Yes wow. I'm glad someone agree with me because that that was a scary. It's such A. It's such a terrible cop out that we don't don't accept in any other facets of important things in life right you think plane crashes we're GonNa say Oh if you should oh building a new seven. Thirty seven is hard. Sorry we don't accept that no and I guarantee you. I mean having forbidden knocking on wood right now. If anything goes wrong with these crude flights somebody said spaces hard after. Yeah I think they would be ran out of the country. You know me you and your mom will be like the space is risky. The other thing with all of this is the unspoken about as of yet in our conversation. The whole difference between SPACEX and Boeing and people like to harp on spacex was in his SP- situation they would make them refi Boeing Boeing off the hook which yes but also like like even if that was not a factor. I think you can still make a decision that ends in flying crew to the s so it is certainly a factor going into the decision making process that Boeing and SPACEX have different histories and different relationships. But I don't think that excuses I don't think Boeing's should we fly just because spacex eighty six would have been if they were in the situation but are we sure. What have you know cocaine snow? I feel like I mean to be honest honest with you. The issue that SPACEX had scares me a bit more than what Boeing had just. Because if anyone had been on that you you know. Conceivably if the astronauts aboard the Boeing vehicle they would have been fine but if the astronauts had been aboard the six vehicle they would not have been fine now not saying saying that that means one company is better than the other but you know. NASA didn't require space x to do any extra. You know flight demonstrations demonstrations because of that incident. So who knows. If they would've made them fly another on crude test and not to be little snarky. But because of all the SPACEX love that is out there I can guarantee you if something had gone wrong during spacex his plate and they were not required to do another crew flight test so many many people would be making the excuse that that was warranted. People people make excuses. I quite a bit. And that's you know that's their prerogative. But I do think I think it is interesting. In terms of the the anger versus the fandom in against these companies yeah and that's always a factor of SPACEX and it's a it's a good part of spacex because it brings so many people into space. Yeah I'm not angry about that. I know that that myself was. I'm more into space because space x today then I wouldn't have been otherwise. Yeah no for sure and I think if you had talked to just my friends or people pull that don't follow space. They would really know much of what's going on. But I when I talk to people these days. That aren't big space consumers. They know a lot more or about what's going on and they would have a decade ago for sure. Nobody asked me any questions about star liner but a lot of people ask me questions about SPACEX dragon missions. That's just like the the that's that says a lot about the positioning of them. Not just within the space nerds like you and I but but everybody out there that remotely reads headlines About Space Race. Sure you know. It's funny as when we this is a very journalists problem but when we were thinking of how to sell to to frame the a Boeing Star liner pieces that we were writing. I saw that some people were referring to Boeing spacex his biggest rival in in their headlines. And I was like do people really not know that Boeing is in aerospace and so we did a poll of my friend ideas all the time where. You're my cousin jokes she's like. Do you always contact me when you need. Like a lay person's opinion about stays. But Yeah we did pulls you talk to people. Like who knows Boeing does aerospace. Nobody knew there like a pretty sure they do planes such it's interesting. You know that that disconnect there I mean after remember. We're that from time to time. The more I do this. Beat I get lost in it and think that everybody knows what I'm talking about and I got A. It's just a constant struggle to step back. And I remember that. Not Everybody is aware of all these different facets and things that are going on and I love the videos that you do are fantastic fantastic but the one that just came out you had the most timely video of all time. I've not quite sure if you just knew that there was going to be a satellite conjunction last night within forty seven meters. Or what but you have this video about satellite servicing with pass Gas Jonathan Golf and the charity Weeden as well. Yeah great sources. Both of Dan love little animations. And everything that you have in the video that show some of the stuff. That's really abstract that people. It takes a lot to get your head around. What's going on in space this but you know who does the animation work over the verges yet? Alex and Corey and will there my team Doing Verge Science Science. And they're they're doing great work and we video around pretty pretty quickly to I think in terms of timing just goes to show that this is a very relevant topic. Okay great now. As face gets more more crowded these days we're going to have more conjunction events like the one that happened last night. So I'm sure we'll have more nail biters in the future. I was so I went out on my deck last night to watch just in case anything crazy. Oh yeah that's right nearby. Yeah and it was. It was weird to think so for context. Because this happened yesterday people might not have been reading the news. There was two satellites that were up nine hundred kilometers In Sun synchronous orbit going opposite directions of each other that we're going to be The Miss Distance was calculated at forty seven meters and I saw the bars on that was about forty eight meters so and so I went out back and had the binoculars out tracking this one thing and realizing that this would have been the strangest I event that would have been horrible and yet maybe have made a difference in how we treat this issue. Because I don't know that we've ever had a more high high impact collision possibility that has been so widely disseminated with everybody watching above the largest metro areas in the US. So so there was this weird convergence of everybody could hear about this issue that was tuned into space stuff. Probably see it and it would have created such an issue that high in orbit those things would have been up there the debris that would have been created would have been up there for hundreds of years in what is probably the most valuable orbit in the low earth orbit regime for sure. And I wasn't a I mean. Were you following. That other crash happen What was that in two thousand nine leave? I wasn't doing any of this stuff. So Yeah Yeah Yeah just following along with it but yeah I'm assuming it wasn't as You know it would. It would have been may more impactful than that one but yeah I think it I was. I hate to say it but a little let down because I think right now were on the precipice of you know having an our satellites out of equilibrium. I guess is that a good the of saying it you know. We're adding more and more into space right now and we don't really know what that means for the future of these conjunction events so this would have been one of those moments. A bit of a reckoning you know and I think it would really have you know drawn focus back on you know the space traffic management issues and whether or not we can handle all these mega constellations that are going into space right now so I mean it's good that they they didn't crash but also You know maybe maybe we need a crash. Who knows how I I definitely would not argue that? I do think that uh-huh Isa seems to be looking into this. A little bit. They've funded a couple of programs for removing debris one being removed debris that came out of Surrey Satellite Center and it sounds like they're inching their way towards targeting envious at which is the largest defunct satellite up there pretty high. I think that's like six or seven hundred kilometers so similarly impactful and it seems like they're going to get to appoint pretty soon where they're gonNA have a mission dedicated to bringing that down. So they're they're working their way towards it in the the. US You know this. This did seem like one of the things that if we're in the era of Space Force which I've been generally positive about not the way it turned out I was supportive of it being separate because I thought the leadership was being stifled under the air force but the setup now doesn't really change that so now is essentially just air force course space command but I mean if you're looking at the missions that there that are on their plate you know I would put debris management and planetary defense as to things that they could take on and it would fit within the mission profile of keeping space safe and also be something that you know. It's it's hard to see NASA getting two into debris management management or something like that but I could see a space force being tasked with it similar to the navy deals with international waters. Yeah but it's right like how what is going to trigger that change change in policy to make that a priority. We are only reactive in this country right and I think the people were getting excited because one of the space policy. Let's see directives. Did Center around traffic management in. It's kind of stalled in the interim since it was announced so right like it might need one of those things where very very sadly very visible problems get reaction to them and so this could have I could have easily facing legislation. Come out after you know something like that. It occurred but yeah ultimately I just want to reiterate it is for the best. That cash did not happen but yes yes I mean the fact that the end and let's be honest. I mean these close calls happen more frequently than we would like you know. Brian Weeden responded to me on twitter. He was saying you know what we really need to be worried about. Are these you know spent rocket stages that are just clustered up in orbit and constantly passing by total all right and and you know at risk of exploding so yeah at this. I know last night's convention event was is. It seemed like an anomaly but it really isn't in the long-term definitely not at a couple of weeks back. I did a couple of youtube videos with a Tsa Kelso of Celestial. Yeah I love him. They took me on a tour of their commercial space operations center where they monitor a bunch of different satellites and conjunctions junctions for their commercial customers and they have this display on one of the walls. That is a running list of conjunctions as they are happening and just ticking away and it's like you can see like maybe fifteen or twenty at the time and it's just by what's the next conjunction and it just keeps rolling off and you're like oh these satellites three kilometers this one kilometer. You're not stressing me out being in there you see the digitalization not mortgage off from. Ut She has come up with. I wrote about that. I've ever seen their thing. Yeah it's just Yeah just a graph showing employees in right now How close these objects are getting within? Let's see Yeah is five kilometers and while I was looking at it I saw one and get down to zero at has already or it was point. One point zero six kilometers south close at test. Just when I was writing this story so definitely things are getting crowded up there already even without starling goodwin web than all the rest of 'em you WanNa talk about that before route one key to talk about starlink but they're mostly pretty good into Deployment at this point. They've got four full launches up there causing all sorts of drama about astronomy. And you know what we're talking about here is face traffic management. Where where you add? Got An all these different things about starlink just checking. I think the biggest thing that I want to see and I wrote about this in the last story. Sorry that I did is just. There isn't very much research into what's going to happen and I don't know if we can get that you know how. How much can we study this before we deploy but that I think the unknown is what is creeping people out so much is because you know maybe the space environment can handle this large flux or maybe it can't and so it's kind of scary to just kind of plow ahead without that knowledge then and again I don't forsee space x being like okay? You know what we'll take a break until we figure this out the ten billion that we're spending nope no bad. We'll just just hold off a little bit so it looks like it's going to be one of those scenarios where we find out along the way but I think space x and I'm sure they realize that this is that they have have a lot to lose. If something messes up you know. They already had that really embarrassing moment. Where their their satellite almost ran into that ISA's satellite so if there is a collision with one of their their spacecraft? You know that they it it is on them to be as diligent as possible otherwise the the PR that they're going to get is like people are ready to pounds. You know they're ready to pounce on something going wrong and so It's it's in their best interest to be as thoughtful as possible and be as good neighbours good neighbors in space as possible. I mean to that point. They are their biggest neighbors. So there's debris in their orbits that is screwing up more than anyone else starts coming down towards I assess and things like that but where they're at five hundred fifty kilometers. You know they're going to be you. They're going to be the owners of that area by default because of how many satellites are going up their insurance so I I do feel like discounted when we're talking about this kind of thing. Is that people. We'll say it as if like if there was a collision spacex would be like doesn't bother us and keep moving on without having to I think they're acutely aware of it I mean I would be just given I mean I would have to say you know spacex gets its fair share of bad press but I think the starling must be the thing that people have hated. Most they've done so far. You know like definitely people weren't people Very keen on the The sports car in space but at the end of the day. It's funny you know. Oh you didn't really bother anybody out in deep space like minding his own business whereas startling constellation is having impact on shriners already. So Oh yeah I I think they're. They need to be on top of their game with this project more than anything else. I do wonder if the timeline that that we're dealing with here on. Starlink is is causing some of this consternation. Because we're used like you said earlier. Projects are always delayed in space. And this one is is not like this is on schedule. And I don't think that's been talked about a lot but this is on schedule. With what SPACEX has always said and not only is on schedule when it started it was instantly. Hundreds of satellites launched within a couple of months. Show it's this instant ramp up to like holy crap. This project is really moving. And there's all these different affects and it doesn't look like this trade slowing down anytime soon. Well the thing is the space component is on schedule for sure not saying that the other components are not as scheduled but we have heard very little about the ground stations that space x needs in order for the entire program to actually work right. It's not just the satellites that you need. You also need the ground stations actually connect to the Internet that you do the the round trip movement. Are Those ready. Are those going to be available by the time. They're rolling out all of these. This coverage you know that remains to be seen and remember the ground component. What was the reason? That Iridium's didn't work out so I would say that satellites are not the hard part it's the it's the working with other countries in getting the permits to build on the ground. So I know you haven't seen leaked photo. We had Kayla vendor on the show last. We're talking about this a little that the most we've seen and even he who's tied in pretty tight with you know the the Satcom side of things. There was a leak photo on red at once of a flatbed truck terminals on it and I've seen that that was the ground station that they're gonNA play all around the country. I mean I sound it. Sounds pretty space sexy. I mean if it works sure but I wonder what does it take to get that into other countries you know I mean. Countries countries thing is a huge thing. Because like yeah if you think that SPACEX is going to start service with China available like from day one you are kidding yourself. Absolutely it'll it'll be interesting to see. I mean Gwyn predicted that they'd start rolling out partial coverage this year. It'll be interesting to see where that coverage is available. Yeah and and who you know. They've done some tests with the dod so far but I do wonder what their role out plan is like for communicating this stuff. If it's it's GonNa be you know all of a sudden we're going to hear them working on a big project with some company or agency or if they're going to have some sort of announcement it's that's going to be very interesting to see because that will be either either if they do some sort of announcement event which Alon loves the big event so it would be surprising to not see that that would be the first time that SPACEX is talking to consumers if that's what unveil whenever they're ready to do that position themselves with that will be very curious to watch. That's very eager about as well as that that I feel like Starlink is kind of Fundamentally transforming the company you know 'cause you and I can't buy a rocket launch. I mean I guess I could. If I saved up we kick-started but I could conceivably by a startling terminal and give my Internet from the sky. So Oh yeah it would. It would provide a completely different relationship and opened up. A huge consumer base for SPACEX. And are they ready for that. Maybe I mean guess Tesla's already been working with customers for years and years already so sure they could feed off of that expertise there but it'll be interesting to see if that transition Shen is smooth for a company. That really hasn't had to deal with that since it started. Well I got one less thing I want to get your take on before route here. There there was this a house subcommittee draft on the relation. Bill that causes a Lotta drama. And I think it was pretty terrible. I we had this hearing the other day. That didn't really change much from what I was listening in on. What do you think this doesn't sound like something that's going to make? Its Way through Congress given the process at hand. But what do you make of of how this is being positioned by the South's committee. So I think some good points were made in the discourse about this and it's yeah First of all I think it's premature to get upset about it. I mean obviously. It's definitely something good to keep an eye on. You know NASA Jim Ryan unsigned already got it on his radar for sure but it does bring into clear focus. Just kind of how on bridled Nelson Senate been for the past year or so I mean essentially artemis was dreamed up early. Last weight knows it. Twenty eighteen twenty nineteen nineteen march. It feels like it's been five years. Were not even a year yet. Yeah yes but it. But essentially really this was the vice president announced it and so is just like okay. We're doing this now. But it almost as if NASA forgot that it is controlled by Congress. This as well and now Congress is having its say at least partially or as making its opinions much more known in how it wants to be run in what it thinks. The artem is program. So I think we're moving into a phase of like okay so the administration doesn't always get that would it wants and we also have to take these other opinions into account not to say that it's a good thing it just it it. It goes to show that we were in kind of uncharted territory the last year or so. Yeah you're totally right. And how many different ways they found to fund pieces of the mission through other programs so they did along the the next step program that was already funded They're doing a lot through the commercial lunar payload services program which already has line items in the budget. So they're finding a lot of these ways to you. You know make progress on different pieces but now you know they at some point they do have to get the big thing signed off on it. Just I'm kind of depressed about it. Because it is every bad space policy that has ever been enacted in the last thirty years. It's overly prescriptive. It's changing destinations. It's picking specific architectures launch vehicles and landing vehicles. It is so everything that we all hate about space policy that it just makes me really sad. Senior Sir Minder. It's a reminder that this is this is how NASA is right. You know. It's it's in order to get the money that I mean NASA has more money to do things. Then you know all these commercial companies do but we have to adhere to the constituencies you know. And it's just that opens the Florida debates like does that mean that NASA is going to grow obsolete one day and I hope the answer is no but but I don't think in the long term NASA will continue to do great things if we must constantly adhere to what's best for people on each state and that and I I hate to say that because I don't wanNA sound cruel but it's just it's it's GonNa stalemate now every time I could not agree more. A space policy is hard. It's interesting Yeah No. It's definitely really hard. I would say the policy is harder than the rockets sir scenes it. Yeah I mean the rockets have been going super great lately on the NAS side either. But they're at least making progress in this other side does seem to be waffling quite a bit. Yeah it is. It's funny to me though. You think I mean well I understand the the thinking behind it but you think that the that Congress would favor fixed price contracts. Since it's less money that they have to spend but I guess that is just what is less money to spend on the people that got them there and it's always hard to get out of that but you know the one shining moment and all. This is the fact that Brian Stein's showed up at that hearing and he said because it's open to the public so I'm in your favorite. You know what has been so funny about writing. Stein All animosity about the fact that he he was a politician and not a scientist and I would contend that is politician background has been his biggest asset in this entire process process. You know he like the job in fact I mean he's got a pretty good understanding of how the engineering and whatnot work. I mean I've we've heard that guy say neuro muscular system so many times I truly love it. But that's not what his what he needs he doesn't need to have have the biggest understanding of those processes and the engineering like. He's got to be able to work these lawmakers because he's talking to them every single signal day and dealing with you know curve balls that he wasn't expecting and I I just think it's so funny how that was such. That was such a thing that was seemed like a detriment but now it's turning out to be like the thing that he's going to be known for. I was always. We're always my head was at and you're preaching to the choir here is one of the two founders of the Gym Brunson Fan Club. You missed out on the AC mayhem married and all that. But that's quite an incident down on their with pins and everything so it was a good time but wait what happened. Oh man do we have. Time is a long story but I will give you the short version we we Jacob. You're on off nominal back in the day. Yeah we developed quite an affection for J B as we call him and it came to a point when listener brought a hundred hundred. Jim Brian Sign Fan Club to meet up. gave him the Jake and he said I guess we're taking these guys see. We gave them out to everybody and it eventually culminated in asking to meet with him for a little bit and chat and he was very weirded out by the pins but they were totally successful. I have found that he a. He's probably he's incredibly open. You know if if I get if you find a way to talk to him by wearing a pin he'll talk to you you know and it's funny though that like doc you're saying that it's as big as asset and it's it totally is because he has sensibilities about different things and other administrators. I don't know Charlie bolden would have walked into that hearing and said while I'm here because it's open to the public. I don't see him going to that kind of thing but you know Brunson knows how this works. He knows he's up there shaking hands at the committee. I mean it is old committee so there's a little bit of there's some internal stuff going on there. I'm sure for sure. Two of the people that are on this bill from Oklahoma so yeah. There's a lot of like the stuff that we don't see here. I think it's very telling that Ryan Bavin was made it clear that he was. He would not have supported the bill if he had been in the majority. So I think that just goes to show that we're GONNA see some changes before I mean I might not change significantly before it goes to the full House but definitely they have to reconcile with the Senate. And that's GonNa be a process for sure it sure is but I'm sure it'll be interesting. Well also so remember I mean not to knock authorization acts. But they're not as binding as the appropriations are so I think that's much much concerning and that's what I look out. I normally don't cover the authorization act or even the appropriations before their signs. You know it's the final version. What I really look for granted is important to watch these things to see trends and to see what's coming down the line or where politicians minds are at but we you know these things change quite a bit all along the road so I feel exactly the same but it is funny that you say like you know we had an authorization bill that was signed in two thousand ten that stay with us for like eight years or something yeah we had like totally different space policies in its lifetime and there is also a trump signed an authorization act denny? Yeah that was the first year in office and I mean have we even thought about that. I know I've been pretty sure that told everyone needed to work towards going to Mars. You know. Oh that's not even not even radar anymore so I even if nothing station act is designed. How much teeth does it really have? And so I I know people are concerned but I think take a take a breath. It's going to be okay. Awesome awesome well Lauren. Thank you so much for coming back on. What should people check out of your work of late where you want to send them if they have not been reading or watching what you've been doing well always the verge urge dot com slash science and the space tab is usually populated by knee? Then you can follow me on twitter at Lauren. Gresh L. How are E. N. T. R. U. S. H.. And then you should definitely check out our amazing bird science videos on Youtube Verge Science Their incredible will diverge. Science team. Just is killing it every single week and I. It's a privilege to work with them. Awesome thank you so much. It's it's always a pleasure to hanging out with you for a little bit and hope we hang out in person sometime soon. Sure and also. Don't wait as long to call me to come back because I know I'm better at scheduling guests. I don't all right see you later. All right take care. Thanks again to learn for coming on the show it's always great talking with her It definitely has been too long like she said so Look for her coming up again soon. On the PODCAST. I'm sure but for now that has always got this week. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for your support has always over at main engine cutoff dot com slash support. And I always remember to check the blog. I've been locked. Blogging a lot more lately over at managing cutoff dot Com mm-hmm and Or on twitter feed over there at we have Niko but until next week. Thank you all for listening. I'll talk to you soon aww.

spacex NASA Boeing Congress NASA John Maurice Jol Yon Grant Ed Cape Pretty Isis Starlink Pat Matt George Brad Ryan Dean Lauren Brandon Chris Mike David Mintz Tim Dodd Laura Nicole International Space Station Anthony clench executive Brian Weeden
SpaceX's Satellite Swarm: Could It Hurt Astronomy?

Short Wave

12:06 min | 1 year ago

SpaceX's Satellite Swarm: Could It Hurt Astronomy?

"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. Mattie Safai here and I'm here with science correspondent Jeff Brumfield to talk about space. Yes so some happened up there. This week Yep that's right. Monday Veterans Day. The commercial spaceflight company SPACEX launched a rocket edition blitz off with gratitude or veterans. Today and. Go you patriotic and repulsive pulsa. Indeed it is. But here's the thing rocket's launch satellite usually but I'm bored. This rocket. There wasn't just one satellite or two there were sixty yes. It's a lot of satellites and this is actually the second time SPACEX has launched sixty satellites this year alone. Okay that sounds cool. I think it school. Yeah but there's a problem. There are literally hundreds more satellites heading into lower than twenty twenty and all that traffic. It's got scientists interests and space junk. Experts really worried so today on the show what the swarm of space x satellites four and why it has some people concerned about the future of astronomy. Okay I get it satellites. They do stuff in space. They're very useful. I can definitely understand why you need some up there but like back hundreds of them. What is going on well to understand that we need to talk about the company space x and it was founded by pay pal? Billionaire Elon. Musk I think it's safe to say it. Revolutionized spaceflight in ways that nobody expected first off. They can land the boosters on their rockets back on earth. Not only can they land these bucer can also reuse them and they're working on raising other parts of the rocket to all of this. Recycling lowers the cost of launch. And that makes spacex Super Valuable Company. But here's the thing. The satellite launch market. Just actually isn't that big aren't that may satellites launched. Each year SPACEX is currently currently valued at around thirty billion dollars but its annual. Revenue is actually only a little fraction of that. If it's going to justify that valuation it's it's going to have to generate an awful lot more revenue in the future. Tim Fairer runs. Timothy Associates a satellite communications consultancy and the only realistic way to to do that in the next few years is to get into the communications business. Communications business like the INTERWEBS. Exactly spacex is doing broadband Internet Internet from space. And it's launching this network of satellites called Starling to provide broadband to pretty much every point on earth and that launched. You heard earlier that that was the latest batch of starling. Satellite's going up now eventually there's going to be thousands of them. Fair says that the broadband markets around a trillion dollars fifty satellites helped spacex grab even a tiny percentage of that. That is big money for this company will finally be rich. That's right launches. Its first darling carrying rocket in May of this year big mission lift off and everything goes super super smoothly and the satellites. They just kind of fan out so they really are just talk. Slowly fanning out like a deck of cards into space but back on earth. There's this aspiring spiring astronomer. My name is Victoria Gorgas. And I'm a public programs. Educator at Lowell Observatory so the Lowell Observatory Torius in Flagstaff Arizona. And I spoke to her back in June after that first launch now she was showing a bunch of visitor some distant galaxies when this train gene of sixty startling satellites goes through the field of her camera. My first immediate reaction was visually kind of cool but my second reaction was men. You can't see a single galaxy because the satellites were just create a bunch of streaks. If you've ever think of get terrible photo bombs what you're telling me it was absolutely terrible photo. Bomb and other astronomers have noticed this to this is going to be a big deal for professional astronomy. How well I want to introduce you to another professional astronomer named Tony Tyson and he is the chief scientist for this really ambitious project called? The large synoptic survey avai telescope limit. They called L. S.. T. For short the idea is to take a picture of the entire sky over and over again every night we will tile the entire visible sky with thousand exposures visiting a thousand different pieces of the sky and this will go on every night for ten years is creating in essence then a digital color motion picture of the universe so the goal here is to see how the universe is changing. You know we think about the stars in the Heavens Evans has been this very static fixed thing but there's a lot of stuff that goes on up there that you just can't catch in this. Very expensive telescope is supposed to see all of it so this telescope is being constructed in Chile and honestly. Tony Tyson wasn't really thinking about satellites. Being launched out of Florida I didn't make a habit of reading the Federal Communications Commission filings for satellites. Why not titillating Had I done that I would have been aware of it anyway so Tyson and is the chief scientists. He's very focused game telescope built. And that's what he's actually working on. When all of a sudden he started seeing these media reports and pictures on twitter streaks exa cross the cameras of amateur astronomers and they were incredibly bright? And you could just see them. You don't need binoculars or telescope or anything and anything's and but he doesn't panic. He's a scientist. So I see waits for the panic. Plenty but go on. Well you know. He tries to be analytical political. Okay so he and his team run a lot of tests and they find. There's no way around it. The satellites are probably GonNa mess up these pictures. So what are they gonNA do. The only real option is to point the telescope where the satellite to aren't so they're going to have to constantly be moving it around to keep the satellites satellites out of the field of view if you knew precisely where they were when they were And could predict where they're going to be L. S. T. can void looking there. But that kind of brings us to another big problem Mattie. Tony isn't the only one who needs to know where all these satellites are. And you know how we keep track of the world satellites. I do not do you want to take a stab on G. GPS they've got no way. The satellites are your yeah. GPS are saddling. That's not gonNA work. What actually happens is the job falls to the Eighteenth Space Control Squadron of the US Air Force and these folks maintain a network of telescopes and radars all over the world that tracks satellites is currently in orbit and they feed that data into a computer? But it's kind of an old computer. The underlying core system came online in the nineteen jeanine. Early kind of Old Gen. That was Brian Weeden. He's a former Air Force officer. Who's now at the Secure World Foundation? which worries about sustainability in space? Do you remember the four eighty six computers. Mattie Neal Jeff they were used for such classic Games as the original Doom mm-hmm Wolfenstein killed a lot of time on that when I was a kid anyway that technology is still being used. Those processors are still still being used to track the world satellites. Oh okay cool. I bet that's adequate. I mean you know to be honest with you. Satellites are kind of predictable and a a lot of ways. So it's up the worst you could do but this computer crunches the numbers. It spits out what are called conjunctions which are basically close calls that could end in MM collisions. At somebody gives out a quick look over and then the system sends out an email email. Essentially says you know your satellite like so and so Predicted to have a close approach with this other space. Object to three or four days into the future and that's it so you can email from space squadron at Hotmail Dot Com. It's like you're going okay. I mean I kind of expected more than that. Like quick taxed or a red alert or something faster baby the guests slack channel. I just something better than that. No no and guess what these emails like all emails. They can get lost lost. Yeah that's what they do in fact. That's what happened a few months back. A European Space Agency satellite was headed towards one of the starling satellites and the agency. He predicted a possible collision. Now they emailed spacex but at least seven. Those emails seem to have gone lost and so did emails from the Air Force. The bottom line is that the space agency ended up. Moving their satellite SPACEX said. Oh sorry are bad you know. It seemed to have been some internal communication Shen problems. They promised to fix it. But honestly we didn't worries the current system just isn't going to work with thousands of new satellites flying around. It's probably the barely early functional minimum to be able to handle this new situation but it is very far from what we should have. And of course if this somehow gets messed up it's a really bad situation. Satellites when they collide they create shrapnel that could threaten other satellites. It's a big mess and there's honestly no way to clean it up. Jeff Jeff this is making me very nervous more nervous than usual. Well let me try and put your mind to these little bit. I mean I spoke to Spacex for this story and I spoke to a rival company called one web which is also launching satellites next year and they make clear to me first of all. They really don't want anything bad to happen. Yeah Jeff nobody wants something bad to happened go on well beyond that they. You know have a financial incentive to make sure bad things don't have makes more comfortable you know spacex is working for other countries. They're launching things to the International Space Station which is in this sort of general area. They don't WanNa mess up the space. So they're doing a couple of things they're trying trying to share their orbital data there quipping these satellites with automated anti collision systems that they say Can prevent you know these sorts of accidents taking other precautions. Now I'm not saying this is going to work out but if something bad happens up there it will be an accident okay. So what about the astronomers. They're in a much tougher. Spot SPACEX has said. They want to work with them. But as I said the satellites reflect light even if you paint them black which spacex is considering doing and you know. We haven't talked about this but there aren't a lot of rules in space. Tony Tyson says there's nothing really astronomers can do to stop this there are yeah no international regulations regarding light pollution from space interfering with optical astronomy. There should be but there just aren't and so it will take along time for that to happen and I think it probably will happen but too late. I think these satellites are going up. Now and in the next shear SPACEX plans to launch hundreds its rival companies going to do the same and Tony thinks that's going to change our sky forever. Okay Jeff Bromfield. Thank you for the story. You're welcome I met by. We're back tomorrow with more shortwave from NPR Planet my knee is the mountaineer economist behind the carbon tax. It's the baseball player trying to get a pay. Raise the prisoner in her building. A blockchain out of cans of Mackerel planet money from N._p._R.. Listen now.

SPACEX Tony Tyson spacex NPR European Space Agency Air Force scientist Mattie Safai Jeff Brumfield Eighteenth Space Control Squad Mattie Neal Jeff Chile International Space Station baseball Elon Jeff Bromfield Jeff Jeff Lowell Observatory
Babbage: The next giant leap for mankind

The Economist: Babbage

24:01 min | 2 years ago

Babbage: The next giant leap for mankind

"Hello and welcome to Babyjohn economist radio a weekly show on technology and science. I'm Kenneth Kooky senior editor at the Economist and coming up on today's show the new facebook regulations changed the way we post even for president trump so the board will have binding authority over what content is allowed and what's not they're going to make the final call on some of the hardest decisions and like chemistry are on the hunt for new pigment the reddest red yet so a lot of people don't realize that there can be a lot of money in reds in fact one of the famous creator of the Ferrari red didn't really realize realized that there was money in this at all he published his findings several decades ago and in fact the people who've made the money from Ferrari read on not the greatest tool that people who spotted the commercial opportunity but I fifty years ago this month humanities perception of the Earth and the heavens changed forever when Neil Armstrong left the lunar module and took one small step onto the surface of the moon he was the first human ever to do so but the Apollo eleven mission signalled an apex in the space race and America's ambitions since then humankind ventured only as far as the International Space Station still safely Earth's orbit but this may be about to change the economists briefings editor Oliver Morton is the author of the moon a history for for the future and he has been thinking about what the next fifty years may hold hello Oliver Hi Ken Oliver this week the Apollo Eleven celebrates its fiftieth anniversary. Can you tell us about the mission. The mission is only incidentally about mood. The Apollo program is designed to show that America can Marshall its economy and its technology to do great things the fact that the great thing that was hit upon was going to the moon was not entirely coincidental but was certainly not central and so America does something that no one else has done before that many people have not even been capable of imagining and changes something fundamental in showing people a human footprint on an inhuman celestial body until you're coming down the ladder now okay. I just checked the backup is at first glance but as one small step for man art so why haven't we gone back because the mission was accomplished because showing people that America could do this was the point doing it was less the point going on doing it was hardly the point at all and so many people so I had this idea that now humans would quote colonize the rest of the solar system and but using the resources of the moon would take up the rest of the century and then the people would move on to Mars into the moons of Jupiter but this was all fantasy and so that's why we haven't gone back. That's why no one has gone back because no one has wanted to signal to the world what America wanted to signal to the world in the nineteen sixties it seems. It's like today. That's changing that there are people who wanna do such signaling. Do you think there'll be a new space race. I'm not even sure there was a first base race. Russians were nothing like a serious about getting to the moon as the Americans were so it was declared a race <hes> because as the Americans were fairly confident of winning it if you saw the space race in terms of who actually kept people in orbit longer than the Russians were of the Soviet Union was doing very well so your question about going back to the moon yes the people are undoubtedly going back to the moon but it's not for the same sort of signaling because going to the moon with the technology of twenty nine thousand nine is a significantly easier task than going to the moon with the technology of nineteen sixty nine and although NASA is hobbled by the strange political constraints finds itself in about what hardware it can use. It's still only GonNa take about a tenth of what it spent to go to the moon the first time to go to the moon second time the Chinese who clearly would quite like to go to the moon we'll go there by building out a human spaceflight program slowly and surely which is what they've been doing for the past fifteen years so yes people will go back to the moon and people will try for their own reasons to present it as a space race yes but I don't think that it's really a race so other than the Chinese what other nations are going to vie to get there the Chinese I interested in going so the Americans feel some Americans feel that they need to go back so that they can you know so I refuse to trade in moon talks with Chinese when they arrive. I think other nations are unlikely to go in the near term. I'm sure India would in the longer term be quite interested in going. The other thing of course is the private individuals and private companies might go and SPACEX has already sold a provisional tip to the moon to go round the moon not to actually land on the moon to <hes> a Japanese billionaire Yusaku Missouri and I think the might well be more of that. There's a U._B._S.. report that suggests that there might be a significant amount of moon toryism by the end of this decade on the other hand. There's more deeper concerns on the territory itself such as who owns it property rights resources and law. How's that GONNA get decided probably by force measure <hes> but I really <hes> <hes> by negotiation? There is already a body of law which says that no <hes> in the outerspace treat of nineteen sixty seven says that no nation can make territorial claim on another celestial body <hes> but it is somewhere between silence ambiguous on the question of whether private industry can cause normally private industry can make property rights on the basis that the ability to do so is granted it by sovereign government the American government and the government of Luxembourg of both sign that not saying that companies from America or Luxembourg can keep and use and profit from resources that they get in space. It's not clear that that really sits within the spirit of the Outer Space Treaty and it's not clear that it's a desirable outcome and what about the rivalry a little bit closer to Earth that is in the Earth's orbit and the proliferation of satellites. How is that going to affect space? There's no rivalry in low-earth orbit. The problem in low-earth orbit is if you put too much stuff into it in some of that stuff hits other stuff then you get too much debris and one of the people who thinks a lot about this is an American goal Brian Weeden and Brian points out that space debris is a problem a little bit like climate change by the time you realize it is really a problem. It's too late to do stuff about it. It's a significant concern that a build up of I bere- in especially in some parts of low earth orbit but maybe also geostationary orbit where the Satellite T._V. satellite set that could be an issue and of course if people start waging war in space and destroying each other satellites that creates more debris normally and how could make the problem was now Oliver. We've talked about humans in space. We've talked about satellites. What about humans venturing beyond the moon to other places in the galaxy as well while the galaxy is asking a little bit much and getting to the next planet in the solar system would be a hard? Enough reach that's what you know. Mosque wants to mosque is quite clear about the idea that his next generation spacecraft meant to take people to Mars <hes> again. This is an area where the law is extremely unclear about what Callan can't be done and and there are people who have significant worries about the degree to which the Martian environment would be degraded by heedless settlement to which a lot of backers of missing masculine say Hellier says the point. We want to go out there where the regulations don't matter but scientific concerns. There's much to be learned about MAS. The could be interesting whether I don't think it would justify the really extremely high cost of going to Muslim and going to Mars now would be a bit like going to the moon in the nineteen sixties to do a proper mas mission Asian would be to stretch welby on the con- capacities of the people have in space. James Lovelock thinks that we're alone in the universe. What do you think I think there's an interesting point made by off the clock that the question of whether humans are alone in the universe is one to which both the answer yes and the answer no equally extraordinary Oliver? Thank you very much. Thank you and you can read more about what the next fifty years of exploration may hold in this week's edition of the Economist. If you like our journalism take out a subscription just go to economists dot com slash radio offer to get twelve issues for twelve dollars or twelve pounds <music> next up facebook announced plans earlier this year for an oversight board that would review content that people post the social media network has come under fire for failing to moderate extreme content shared on site but how do you moderate right a platform that has over two billion active users that is a question that Brent Harris hopes to answer his facebook's director of governance. I met Mr Harrison event at Chatham House the Royal Institute for International Affairs in London and I started by asking him how this new form of internal regulatory body would work or proposing the oversight board he's to create a group of experts from across the world who will bring independent Endon judgment to heart cases and questions and make a determination after deliberation on what's the right answer. Is this something that belongs up on the platform or is this something that belongs down and in the course of trying to figure out exactly what this institution should be. We've gone out around the world. We've talked to over six hundred and fifty people through over thirty workshops and roundtables people from over eighty eight countries countries and also heard from twelve hundred people via public submissions. This is a lot of people carrying about the Oversight Board. What problem do you hope to solve so there are two things were really hoping that the board will do one is that we wanNA give people access to process that is independent of facebook that allows them to say that the company didn't get it right and didn't actually live up to its standards ends to woods values in the case of very specific pieces of content and then second? We believe that building that board and we've actually seen this as we piloted it will strengthen how the system of content moderation is operating and spot issues issues and find that there are places where the policies should <hes> should change or where the system could be stronger as we add more regulation to any technology business. It always helps the incumbent compant. Always we saw that with bell telephone we saw that with Microsoft and we're seeing it again with facebook. How will there be room for startups to get into the business if we have this huge layer? Pair of regulation and an independent Standards Board that is a Supreme Court for digital content regulation really is about ensuring the right outcomes happened on behalf of society and so in at least in in our case what we're looking for is is really setting threshold and a floor to make sure that companies and institutions and products are able to operate in a way that leaves up to that responsibility on behalf of wide numbers of people and so we you think that really regulation is the right call at something that will help protect people across the world and I'll note on the question of innovation. I don't think we're living in a world where less innovation is happening. We're actually living in one where it's accelerating and inch people are out there everyday coming up with a wide array of new product solutions that people are using and its resulting in a really fascinating vibrant digital ecosystem and what does independence look like in the facebook age if it's an independent body we're looking for is people who are truly independent in judgment from the management of Facebook so we want folks who are not tied to the business interests and business incentives of the company and who come come out there and actually overrule us and say hey you know what we got. It wrong didn't live up to our standards. We didn't live up to our values so the board is not going to be looking at everything you have all these content moderators. What will it be doing? The board's going to look at some of the hardest cases so it's going to look at cases that have a a huge impact on that public dialogue about what should be allowed and what shouldn't and it's also going to look at cases that are exemplars of larger issues at the boundaries of where the policy should be set and in doing so. It's going to help inform what the rules of the Internet look like okay. I'm a little bit nervous when you say the word exemplar because that's sort of a euphemism for precedent it sounds like as a supreme court it's not simply early adjudicating a specific case but setting a wider set of norms and standards that the lower courts if you will the moderators would hear too is that was planned the board's going to be binding on specific pieces of content and in context of individual decisions and in the course of doing that and this is something we've really found through pilots. It's a powerful way of reviewing essentially the way that the company does this today and it will then provide recommendations recommendations on policies and content moderation that will inform how these systems play out across over two billion users. Can you make me the Supreme Court Chief Justice of the Oversight Review Board because I would love the power well well. I don't think I don't think I actually hold the power to make that decision but we're going to open up nominations so you should you should put your name in the ring. Perhaps that will be compromised compromise because I am a journalist but the other way I'm compromised is an American. I live in Europe and I am born and bred with the First Amendment and this idea of information needing to be free and having a great important ethos of public disclosure these are norms and practices and values that aren't shared internationally. How do you balance the sort of very positive free information free flow of information ethos of the West with people from other traditions that don't actually have that appreciation mm-hmm so what we're looking at is a set of principles that we've articulated and those principles start with free expression and they start with boys and that really is at the core of the products at a fundamental level? It's about how people communicate and come together and we have a a broader set of principles and those principles include safety and they include equity and they reflect <hes> a number of norms and thinking that is a global and rooted in an ongoing dialogue. That's happened around human rights principles. Principals around the international principles for decades what happens if the board looks at say a user who says vile and disruptive things that are usually not true and the board recommends that you throw the person off the platform but the person is the president of the United States what does facebook to them so the board will have binding authority over what content is allowed and what's not so they're gonNA make the final call on on on some of the hardest decisions trump get get sucked print Harris. Thank you very much perfect. Thank you and finally we all know the expression to see red when we're angry but some chemists think that we're not seeing red enough. They're on the hunt for a new red pigment. The reddest red yet cassius Saint Clair is a cultural historian and the author of the book the secret lives of color and absolutely fantastic read and she's here in the studio to tell us more Hello Casio hello so I what is wrong with the red pigment we have today. Well reds are really tricky and always have been. They're very desirable. We'll as human beings. We seem to love creating read things but we've always had a little bit of a problem with very colorful fast and durable red pigments so one of the classics of the Genre is could chenille which is made out of bugs oxidative to cactuses but more recently the pigments that we've been using to for example coat cars haven't been as great as we might want them they tend to turn chalky if exposed to too much light and air there have been some developments. There's a a famous read that is used on Ferrari's ferrari-red but even that needs a little bit of protection with U._V.. Protective coatings that stop them becoming discolored over time so there is incredible demand for a read that could could be more useful and is more gerbil outside. So what are we going to do about this crisis. How are we going to find a red that is durable but it's not exactly a crisis but it would be incredibly exciting and very valuable to create this new red red and so what is happening is that chemists are beginning to look for new sources and one of the chemists who's really excited about this excited about the opportunity is actually famous for creating another color? His name is my Subramanian. He's a chemist working out of the University of Oregon and he is most famous for creating Yin men blue and he's hoping he can repeat the trick with red. Why did we need a new blue? He wasn't actually looking for blue when he found found him in blue it was created entirely by accident. He was trying to create a material with specific magnetic properties and instead one of his research students pulled something out of a furnace and it was bright right blue now professor my Subramanian knew quite a lot about color. He'd worked at Dupont for a long period of time and so he knew the blues were very very difficult to make and when he saw this particular very bright luminous blue he thought hang on a second I might have created a gold mine and it turned out to be fantastic Chris to huge buzz around color and a huge buzz around his work but having created this as I said by accident it made him think about other all the gaps in the market and that's when he happened upon reds. This is a show on science and technology but I've gotta ask if I create a new color. What do I get other than fame? Where's the fortune so a lot of people don't realize that they can be a lot of money in reds in fact one of the famous as creator of the Ferrari red didn't really realize that there was money in the tool he published his findings several decades ago and in fact the people who've made the money from Ferrari read are not the greatest tool that people who spotted the commercial opportunity <hes> so you once? Once you've created your color you need to be quite smart about the rights and how you go about creating it so now having achieved this great success in found green in blue. He wants to replicate that in red. What is he trying to do now? There are several all different avenues that he and his team all looking at one is looking at Ruby's which are naturally read but a problem with that approach is that rubies on a great pigment in themselves so when you grind them down move finding any that ground the Paler the color which isn't what you want what you wanted to really bright saturated red so you know while they're hopeful. If something has sort of a similar structure to ruby it might prove a better pigment. There are some problems without approach. A second approach is looking at another kind of red pigment which are sort of made out of metals like lead at the moment they're also great lead-based reds but that quite toxic so instead they're looking at ten and the hoping that tin might prove a more valuable and stable source of red without the problems of toxicity. What is the technique that they're using to actually uncover these new colors? Is it <music> all simply a matter of accident like this young men blew quite a lot of colors are found accidentally like Prussian blue and the color Mauve the dye move at which is the very first analyzed I was actually found by a chemist who was trying trying to make a cure for malaria. He never managed that in his career but what he did give us was an entirely new color so I think that quite realistic about being relatively free and maybe by sort of looking in the vague general direction thinking okay tennis close the to lead on the periodic table. They might have some properties in common any might also prove a rich source of reds and this seems to be working. He told me that they've managed to create some very vivid saturated oranges <hes> which is useful but not quite the color the officer so they're gonNA keep on trying to so our listeners can visualize what this red will look like imagine the Economist logo. How would it be different? It would be actually very as red as the economists logo but the brilliant thing is that you you can have it outside you could paint your call with it. It would be cheaper and it would be more caller. Fast wouldn't be leaving your economists logo outside in the sun and it would be turning a paler concussion. I hate when that happens. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much and that's all for this week's garbage please rate us on apple podcasts. It does make a difference. I'm Kenneth Kooky and in London. This is the economist <music>.

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11/27/2020 - Hour 2 - Steelers and Ravens Face Another Postponement

The Herd with Colin Cowherd

46:47 min | 8 months ago

11/27/2020 - Hour 2 - Steelers and Ravens Face Another Postponement

"Though we're apart these days was sharing more so at geiko we'd like to say thanks. Thanks for sharing. Your savage dance moves. Thanks for sharing your. Diy haircut fails thanks for sharing your inner lip sync star. Now it's our turn to share with the geico giveback the fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies for current and new customers. Because we're committed for the long haul. The fifteen percent credit laster full policy terms visit geico dot com slash. Give back for more info and eligibility is brought to you by ibm answers matter more than ever before that's why ibm is helping businesses manage customer questions with watson assistant it's conversational a i designed to work for any industry. Let's put smart to work visit. Ibkr dot com slash watson assistant. Thanks for listening to the heard. Podcast be sure to catch us. Live every weekday from twelve to three eastern nine to noon pacific on fox sports radio. Nfs one find your local station for the hurt at fox sports radio dot com or stream. It live every day on the iheartradio app by searching heard. You're listening to fox sports radio. What i welcome in. This is the herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening to the show. Thanks so much. I'm doug gottlieb. Filling in for colin cowherd keeping our eye on college football iowa state and texas college basketball number. One going data. Throttling dame's gonna come to an end at ninety. Two sixty seven is mark. You win wins. His six hundred first game as head coach of the zags. Welcome in hope. You had a splendid healthy and safe thanksgiving brandon weeden good friend of mine friend of my program which follows this one three six eastern pacific the doug gottlieb show former first round draft. Pick at the cleveland. Browns will join us. Get his thoughts. He's also a former starting quarterback with the cowboys. Who played in los yesterday with the texans who played in one yesterday. So we'll get brandon. Weeden starts in fifteen minutes here on the show. Charles robinson an hour and a half and we'll get his reaction and prognostication and what happens. Ravens steelers was supposed to be the game last night. Afc north last year's team with the best record in the afc mvp lamar jackson against the steelers. Who are the last remaining undefeated team in the national football league was supposed to be the deal the game until it well. It hasn't been canceled. It was just postponed. We think right we think. Because what's what's happened is they move the game sunday from semi thursday night thanksgiving night. That was going to be the. Ps two resistance. Right you going to eat early. You guys eat early two guys late. I i get these people who gets dark so early. I don't know we did the one o'clock dinner last night. And i think it worked out well because i don't believe anybody eight anything and that was just like it. I mean just look. There's not a lot of people my house and was a small bird but the part of the bird that we ate. I mean it. It looked like we. We were savages like the yankees at the plate savages a bunch of savages and then thinking like all right. I'm going to go take a nap and get up and wake up have leftovers. And then i'm gonna watch the steelers and the ravens and instead we turn to holiday movies. Christmas vacation is the go holiday movie. I think right to die hard. Those those does the two you go with the santa claus ones you can go with. There's other ones alpha's is very good. Guy elvis good bad santa's good. I'm charlie brown christmas good. None of these are bad but christmas vacation and die hard. Those are the you know. That's the less the tom brady and did. Joe montana and i got to think of what would be the aaron rodgers. It's actually actually probably more talented and has been really successful but not viewed as much as the goat right. Those are the those are the three for me when i watch and there's other movies you know peyton manning at a time was seen as maybe the greatest of all time at least regular season walked out with a super bowl win but couldn't really throw a football at the end. We might have to do that as best for last hall. Which holiday movie is which quarterback or we'll get to that but we didn't have the and this is it's kind of craziness it's kinda nutty and now you have more positive tests and late in the day. Lamar jackson lamar jackson returning raining. Mvp of the national football league. This is the madden curse. You guys will into. Didn't get hurt. And he hasn't been terrible but he hasn't been good even great right. So i i guess the question is it madden. Curse is it. Covert curse two thousand twenty or just a matter of this is how easily this thing spreads. Its stands to reason that if you're running backs have it. The quarterback would probably have it to especially if he doesn't play with two gloves on does with the mascot so in baltimore. We don't know we don't know what happens. But what could have been a really tough scenario for the steelers might end up. Being the best thing that ever happened to them. They cancelled their walk through and practice today. The steelers did signifying. That doesn't feel like this is a go. Maybe they're just trying to be stay. Everybody stay safe stay home. They'll nobody it's like remembering god's not godfather goodfellas when they had lufthansa heist you guys remember that lieutant heist in goodfellas. And then they show up at the bar to celebrate and one guy walks in his wife's got a for code got a new cadillac outside. Take it back. Take it back. What what are you. What are you more on you to listen to me. take it back. i said. Don't don't buy nothing for nobody but nothing right. That's basically what the steelers did a practice today. just everybody up and just say hey. Don't talk to nobody. Don't have anybody for house. We'll do it on zoom. Wrap yourself in a. But we're undefeated chance to win a super bowl chance cerebral. The steelers weren't going to have an off week. Remember what happened with tennessee. They lost their bye week. And there guys were ticked. And i don't blame them for being tick but it wasn't like you're going anywhere you can go on vacation or anything but you know. Look you thought you were going to have a three day weekend. Whatever gonna play thursday. And then have friday saturday sunday. Monday off comeback. Totally refreshed do's and then all of a sudden they tell you what you play sunday afternoon against your rivalry like But it appears that that game would either. I mean i guess you could push back the playoffs a week because you do have the weekend between the conference championship games and the super bowl and the super bowl though it feels like you can move anything. It doesn't feel like that dates one. You could move. Sorry i've al-. I've i think everyone in sports in medias like why can't we just play on on president's day weekend then you have the monday off for school and then you don't feel so bad about east coast especially staying up to watch the end of the big game. So i don't know super bowls movable or if you just eliminate champs week or here's the possibility the ravens forfeit possibility ravens forfeit. You know sorry. You guys couldn't stay healthy the ravens even forfeit the game. But it doesn't feel like they're going to play this weekend and that could be what look like man. That's rough on the steelers undefeated and now. Their schedules are all off. And they don't have a by weekend they're all a little bit ticked about it and you run the risk because of the start stop start stop start of. Maybe maybe more injuries night. Now you got a prep week but then you get the weekend potentially off feels like feels like to me. This ends up being a really good thing for the steelers because even if they find a way to week there's like let's make it a week. Eighteen game the steelers by then should have everything locked up clinched up they don't have to play their dudes. Could they go for undefeated season they could but super bowl is so much more important. And if you think undefeated regular season matters. I give you. What's the best team. The tom brady ever played on. It's not the one six to one simple. It's one of the three. That losses are when they. When they went undefeated in the regular season they went eighteen when they lost to the new york. Giants david tyree catch etc etc etc. Right nobody remembers that team. No one ever considers that team the greatest football team or in the conversation the greatest football team all time because they didn't win the last game people don't care about the i sixteen if you don't win the last one but kind of kind of interesting if you if you look at it that here the ravens are desperately in need of a win need kind of writing themselves and they were bad they had four turnovers last game against the steelers but still had the football and a chance to win it. Late when the mar- threw an interception in the steelers in zone so it wasn't like a hail. Mary legit throw but they needed a get right game against Against a foe like steelers to figure out what what they could change how they could evolve. Could their offense progress because it feels like it's been stagnant and probably regressed as people have figured it out and they lose ronnie stanley for the year. What could have been a tough scenario for the steelers one that could lead to their first loss and to more injuries. And what's always like that. Steeler raven game is a hard hitting football game. It's of those ones like well. That's played at a different level. There are there are games in the nfl. Most played a very high level yesterday notwithstanding but that felt like a game where the ravens are still an aggressive bunch. They needed it. It would have been played a magical playoff level and now. I don't think i don't think it gets played. I don't think there's any way coming up next. What do we make of the cowboys going. Forward twice on fourth down is that should that. Be them waving the white flag. Hey we don't mind if we actually lose we're gonna play this thing like it's a bowl game. Deshaun watson is playing outstanding statistical football. What's changed since bill. O'brien was fired and by the way. How does it feel to be a starting quarterback as a rookie and get benched. I'm gonna ask brandon weeden. Of course start as quarterback of the cleveland browns. Get his thoughts on what miami has done with to all. That's coming up next in the hurt one. More herd the herd streams twenty four hours a day seven days a week within the iheartradio app. Search her to listen live or on demand. Whenever you like. Is the her going to. The grocery store is on everybody's to do list. The problem is how many people actually like to do it. Especially during the holidays swine happy. I signed up for butcher box. They ship high-quality meat conveniently. Right to your door. They partner with folks who believe in better going above and beyond when it comes to caring for animals the environment and sustainability. They've got free range. Organic chicken heritage breed pork hurting grass-fed grass finished beef. Fresh seafood like salmon scallops. 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Noah's cancelling headphones apply for yours at bank of america dot com slash more rewarding copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation dugout. Leaving for colonists is the herta wherever you may be and however you may be megan as part of your day. College basketball has come to an end is gonzaga gets another dub And looks like virginia's gonna go down to san francisco san francisco loss to umass lowell. Justino like what is mass. Okay well there's umass amherst umass riley. Marcus camby remember that John calipari was the head coach. They had a little trivia. Was the the point guard. He's remember team. Yeah went to the final four okay that's umass amherst umass. Lowell is a different school in massachusetts. That's who san francisco loss to like two days ago. They just beat virginia defending nash. They're still defending national champions because we didn't have tournament last year. It's it's that kind of year that kind of year. We're watching isla takedown. Nebraska take on nebraska and nebraska. Looks like a mess. What a mess. See if they can figure that thing at. Let's welcome in brain weeden. Of course who started at oklahoma state and they beat what stanford in the fiesta bowl. Andrew luck was the quarterback in the first round. Pick the cleveland. Browns start is a rookie Then made his way to dallas where he became when romo got her. Was the starting quarterback the cowboys and then started when shawn watson got hurt with the houston. Texans and i want to start their bread and happy thanksgiving to you and your family do what is different about does shawn watson over the last four games. That's allowed him to not turn the football over and statistically be so much more successful. Yeah happy thanksgiving man he. He looks like he's playing free. Young sean just many times. I mean there's very few guys in the up. They'll have the instincts ability to kind of improvise on the fly like he does. I mean i said this for years. You know he's one of those guys. You can't overcoat you can't you. Can't make him a robot. You gotta call the play kind of lead them in the right direction and let him go figure it out. He's just he's got unbelievable insane stuff. You can't teach stuff you can't coach You know he just being smart football. You can tell. He's not his big deal. And i told him this the two years with them. I told us all the time i said. Man you're you're too good. You not have to make every single play. Let the game come to you. You'll be patient at times but he's he's doing a little bit of that and he's he's being smart with ball and and He's literally putting that team on his back and he's gonna have to for a while too. Ben wedeman joining us. Weeden join us here in in the in the heard How do you. How do we have a proper evaluation considering the teams that he's played well against bad teams right like the lines aren't a good team being the jaguars twice. They beat the patriots. Fairly close game with this is not a good patriots team. Like how it i i. It's not like i think he can't play but it's hard to truly evaluate considering the the level of of when they win games. Yeah i mean. I get it but at the same time i mean. You're still planning football team. You know and he you know losing a guy like louis guy. The andre hopkins. That's tough overcome. No who you are and you know. We'll unbelievable year. He's having a career year You know he's got brandin cooks was playing good ball on the always in the running game decent. But he's just there you know again. He's just he's finding a way to put those teams but teams put his team on the on his back to go when these games You know they started year. I mean their their schedule. So rough right out of the box i mean. I think they're going to start the year and they've played. You know four teams all with winning records but You know you gotta play the team's your schedule and find a way to win those games. I think in large part to him. He's the shots put not team on his back and playing good ball doug alley for columnists. The heard on fox sports radio. And let's get to the cowboys. Zeke elliott seems to have topped off and doesn't have the same burst now. i zack. Martin got hurt. Lyle collins is out for the year you know arguably the best left tackle in football. Tyran smith is out for the year. What are your thoughts dylan zeke. And what seems to be a lack of burst from the running back. Yeah i mean. It's definitely worrisome. I mean. I think bursting than just lack of taking care of the football. He's turned the ball over five times and he just pretty careless with the ball. I think that's probably the bigger issue The man. I mean the the truth is look at life you know. Find me one good one good football team and all the back to high school football all the way through the nfl. I mean one. Good team is good with a really bad offense. Why there's not one. And and i think that's you know why they're having so much so many issues on on offense to stay. They're just. They're missing a lot of key pieces that that have made that team go for so many years and they can't run the ball officially he's turned the ball over. He's not run the ball very well and You make tough on them so there you know. Obviously when zack went down the other day. That's a that's a gigantic blow. He's one of the better if not one of the best guards in in football so yeah that was a huge blow for them and when zeke's not playing well and and can't make up for that lack of lack guys up front it's Can we tell them offense. Four to two or three games in his third start he got pulled they put ryan fitzpatrick and to try and beat the denver broncos. That didn't work. Now they're going back to to You know brian floor is basically said. Hey we're trying to win this one game but to a still the guy. But what is that like to be a rookie quarterback and you don't feel like you have the full support in the short term of your of your coach. It's tough you know. I've been benched in and i don't care how strong your italy it's to overcome that i mean just you know you go out the next time you go out. You're going to be you know maybe a little more cautious than normal yarn able to go out and play free and let it rip you know whatever whenever they danced. Rhonda patrick i thought the timing was a little bit weird. I know through the first round pick and you wanna see what you got. But they're playing football when he was in there and You know it seemed a little rush to me. I'll be honest And not playing bad or anything else but you know to go back and forth and back and forth and that's that's tough that's tough on anybody and You know i hate it. I hate it for him. Obviously made it clear. He's going to start this week but it's I don't know when you have a you have a back and forth type deal quarterback. It's just. I don't think it's a very good recipe for an offense or for any for football team. I in my opinion they're just They need to find a guy and stick with them. Because i got a pretty good team. They got a really good defense and they got a chance to win that division. Many we our guest here in the hurt. Doug gottlieb filling in for four collin the tampa bay buccaneers. They got some offensive line issues. guard center So that's that's part of the problem but the biggest problem feels like feels like you have a coach. That's used to play one style. You know holding the ball a little longer. Throwing the ball down the field and a quarterback who i mean you. Tell me if. I'm wrong but isn't isn't tom brady. Known for getting up to lion scrimmage find the mismatch and just being not only decisive but really accurate in underneath routes option routes. Yeah absolutely. I think it's definitely different style. A ball i. I was saying this night of buddy over watching the game and and i said you know brady not having a back that he can utilize them. The passing game is is honestly. It's making them deficient offense. We just don't you know he's so used to having that guy of the backfield that you can still run combinations with running backs and wide receivers and they do a lot of that. That offense where they free released the back and you know. He's able to kind of high low dependent when they play cover two or whatever it may be still throw digs behind those guys and throw option routes bags and stuff like that. And he's used to having a back they can catch the football and is is good backfield. He obviously doesn't have that tampa. I mean i think that four drops on on four tenths early on and you know. It's just a different style of bowl. I mean i think they wanna they wanna drop back Try to protect it up and take shots. Which which is fine and dandy. But it's pretty clear that's not working. He's not throwing the ball very accurately downfield and he just doesn't look comfortable in my. He's not comfortable back there. And it's weird seen it. Because i'm not played against against him and his Several several times. And you know. I'm used to seeing him standing there and looked confident. Look just make it look so easy. And just get the ball out of his hands and just dissect defenses and and go up and down the field and right now. Just look slow out of sorts. It doesn't look like he's You know in complete control like we're used to seeing this was Bruce arians going back a couple of days ago talking about the deep ball. We've been the guys open. We just missed them. There are times when coverage dictates. You go to that guy so i think we do a better job of utilizing the deep ball in our game plan of more or less of so each each and every week so different but when they're there we need to hit him. We can't have gone off our fingertips and we can't overthrow him. He also in previous press conference said you know side. Maybe he's confused up there or hidden and practice what i mean. Look i understand that. This is bruce. Arians is and. I understand that tom brady was somebody who in new england would be called on the carpet when he didn't play well but not publicly. How do you think it goes over when you're criticized publicly and your and your a guy like tom brady here that he's not used to it. That's for sure you know i. I'm kind of surprised to hear him say that. I mean you know. Obviously you know losing a game the way that didn't play in the way they did offensively. You kinda gonna be reactionary. And i get it. Everybody's reactionary from week to week. Yeah i can't imagine it's going over very very smoothly you know. Bill chuck was really hard guys but he would do it privately. He would never do it in the public Press conference and stuff. So i don't know how i don't know how well that's going to go over you know. And you just because he's missing deep balls. I mean yeah. Large part of that on the quarterback some of that could be coverage you know that could be receivers landmarks and there's a million different things now the other night i mean the the two interceptions were clearly. Brady's brady's fault my opinion but you know to be good deep. Look guys russell wilson. I mean when he has one on one coverage a single. I'd say he's a good job of holding. The safety puts a ton of air. Let's his guy go up. And and contestant catches guys are just you know. Throw deep ball differently. Brady's not not real doubt then with the right. Now it's kinda kinda shocking me a little bit just because of the personnel. He's got on offense. He's got some guys that can they go get the football and and take the top off. So yeah i think they want to go where they need to go. They need to. They need to figure that out. There's no doubt about it. Weeden is our guest here in in the heard Okay and then as you as you have to young. have you gotten a chance to watch just to herbert. Some of the things. He's doing it. So many people questioned what he would be like as a pro because of how he looked within oregon's offense where so many throws were safe and and he's he's a really dynamic downfield thrower and he's been decisive with withrow. Those throws how did so many. I know he went sick. So it's not like everybody totally whiffed on him. But how do people missing their evaluations of justin. Herbert i i think part just because it was organ i mean everybody knew big strong kid can run around make plays with his feet and stuff and obviously strong arm but i still think he was a little bit inconsistent throwing the football at oregon but i mean he's he's proved everybody wrong including me. He's he's playing unbelievable football. I i've got a chance to watch you know a little bit here and there and some throws he's making or like you said decisive accurate I mean he's throwing them with authority. You can tell that. He's on his conviction when he's back in the pocket he's trusting when seen he's leading a rip and that's pretty impressive for for rookie quarterback because you know the defense coordinators. You know we're trying to do what they can to kind of confuse them coverage wise and blitzes and stuff like that. So i i've been. I've been extremely extremely impressed. I mean he's got to really. He's got a bunch of really good weapons but he's got he's got some nice You know nice tools to chests with With you know the playmakers he's got outside but but him personally and he's he is he's standing in there and and he's he's playing football. Ben weeden our guest here in the hurt. doug feeling filling in for for colin. What's it like. I'm trying to think when you're starting quarterback what it would be like to play against an aaron donald right like we talk a lot of the discussion about brady has been about brady and the offense but the the thing is you. Talk about russell wilson. He was uncomfortable when they're going against aaron donald then they won the game and and their ability to get to the quarterback without blitzing. Anybody because you have front four but you know part of it is you have one guy. There who even to people can't necessarily account for like it's a team blocking scheme anytime. Aaron donald is in the game. Have what you play in college against. Sue wright was with suan nebraska. You play against him was that is that similar now. they're already gone. But i'll put it gets me. Nfl and yeah. It's very similar. There's there's a handful of guys that come monday. The first thing out of the coaches now. It's like hey look we gotta neutralize. You know in this case ninety nine like we cannot let him take this game over and beat us single handedly and it's easier said than done. I mean everything you do in the run game obviously is is pretty around getting you know four hands on him. Double him to the to the mike's wills wherever you're scheme is excuse me but but even the passing game all your protections i mean everything is predicated around not letting him wreck the game and and i'll perfect example when i was in dallas. We putting against jj watt. Jj watt was defense player of the year that year and it was kind of that. Same deal you know. Jj the guy that ironically enough. You don't wanna run away from them. You wanna run right at j. c. can double team a lot of big plays are running it down from you know from the backside. And he's he's made a made an unbelievable career doing that. Aaron donald is he's unbelievable. Run games unbelievable. Passing game probably best defense plan and fall and even the other night. I mean he wasn't on the stat sheet but you can tell how disruptive he is and how much it frees up those other guys that play next to him and so going against guys like that's tough. I mean. I'm sure those offensive line coaches lose sleep at night. I know the interior office of. I'm in no what they earn store for. Because i mean guys like aaron donald i mean you just kinda slow them down. You're not gonna stop them. You just gotta gotta hope to god you can will it for for four quarters and he just doesn't the game. Yeah no it's. It's pretty pretty kind of amazing to watch and almost like that. That's their whole defense is built around that and then just kind of getting india with their With with their defensive backfield and got ramsey back there kind of locking guys up. The scheme seems to really really seems seems to work. Your favorite trick play yesterday. We saw the fumble risky. If brian weeden was a coach. What's the trick play. You would always have in the bag. Gosh that's a good question I don't know. I mean it seems like the phillies specialist kind of worn out. Its welcome that when you know that was pretty pretty popular down there in the red zone. i'm pretty basic man. I i like to trucial flea flicker i mean. When i was in college we ran at several times. And i bet we were five or five on that thing we always hit it and it was always an explosive. Plays a couple of touchdowns be honest. i mean good old-fashioned flea flickers. You can find a way to back the one that houston ran the other day. I'm not even sure that was. I'm into texas sean. To see if that was drawn up like that but it looks like there's playing backyard football but you know just a a true flea flicker man that's a you know it usually gives you an opportunity to take shelter field. Yeah no i like that. I like that i i like who doesn't like a good fleet thicker right. I enjoy that a great deal I'm i like double passes. Although when those don't work it looks really really bad. Really really really bad. But i'm i'm a. I'm a flicker guy what do you. What do you think about running fake reverses on fourth and ten. You're backed up down for like dallas. Did yep i again. I get almost feels like it. Felt like some you do in a bowl game right or or or if you're trying to lose what what do you. What do you honestly. What do you like if you're on that team. You're that sideline they call it and you're backed up. What are you thinking. i'm calling out. I mean you're still in the division. You win that game. You're in the division Your down for a one score game. You know it's like i don't know. i thought. The timing was was bizarre. Play call was bizarre. I mean if a fake. That's a pretty slow developing fake. In my opinion. I'm on special teams guy but i mean you know. I don't know i saw that now. I just i was at a loss for words. I couldn't believe that given where they were in the game. Now you know if it's a ten point game you're trying to steal possession. I get it but man. You're you're still still right there. I was shocked that just kind of put the icing on the cake. You what they're doing in dallas. It's there's a lot of head scratching going on down there. I can't fathom stuff. They're doing what what do you think there. What are they doing are they. Are they trying to win. It's a legit. Because i don't know if you saw this going into last night's game gordon yesterday's game the eagles game but they were drafting. Nineteenth in the first round the cowboys are drafting fourth. A massive massive difference in winning that division and it might sound cool to say but it might mccarthy legit knows. I'm good here. I'm good did i mean. Is it better for them to lose. And are they playing to to somehow lose without playing to lose. I mean yeah. I get i get that side of it. I mean because you know. You're decimated injuries. You know their the chances of really making a run finger for pretty much slim to none. So i i understand that. That argument I i don't know if i'm on that team. I'm frustrated because i mean you still gotta go answer the questions every time you lose especially in dallas. I mean it just you know. It's not fun week after you lose. I don't know. I mean. I i understand you have a top five pick. That's that's a nice deal. But i don't know i mean you can. I guess you could always use a crutch if you're coach. She were we're thinking we're we're worried about next year but they'll never say that publicly thought it. Oh i'm never been in that that they're still guys that you're on the bubble. The may not be with that team next year. They're gonna be looking for a job and they still need to go. Put good play on tape in my opinion. So it'd be hard to hard to keep a locker room intact. If if you're going out there trying to trying to lose games. I i've never been a big believer in that. No i'm not either. I understand culturally. But there there are also is running a franchise and you have some bad contracts and you're trying to figure some things out and it you know if you just happen to lose a couple more games. That doesn't that doesn't kill ya. I i know how competitive jerry is and how good they thought they would be but there does come a point where you're looking like we just don't have any guys we don't have guys anymore. I think now you lost sack mark. We just don't. We just don't have the dues brand. I'll be had a a wonderful thanksgiving and a merry christmas. Happy holidays to you and your family. And i appreciate you joining me on my show and on the heard here fox sports radio you got. That's one and only. Brian weeden who i'm sure. Is tina up at some point in the very near future. I may have to do the same myself. All right edge. Let's let's get to lee with the news. This is the herd line news. All right doug you had talked about two with brandon. Weeden there but did you hear that. Sam darnold is making his comeback. This sunday. yes. I know he's gonna play like making a comeback with us out of the league or he had Right it's his first game vaccines week when he reinjured that. Right shoulder is first time with his Top three white house. Jamison crowder denzil mims for shot perriman. And of course. Frank gore made it known that he wants to get a win before his It's clear by going out on oprah team right right. Do you think you could pull off the upset. Even though they are at home against the dolphins i have. I have my picks upcoming okay This is like this is adam cases last stand. Although custer's last stand did not turn out particularly good. I just want to point that one out Do i think they can yes. Do i think they will stay tuned. Alright alright alright. Bama versus lsu. They're trying to reschedule. This one of what's expected to be moved to december fifth as long as this weekend slate of games goes off as planned The game that was originally scheduled for november fourteenth of course was called off because of covid Testing and results with lsu so alabama regular season. Finale against arkansas would be moved to december twelfth while lsu's previously scheduled december fifth. Game against ole miss would be moved to december ninth which is actually the same as the sec championship game. Okay wes lsu's not gonna play sccm's gene neither of them trying to get it in. Let's just get in as many as we can. I got it. I it makes sense. You just figure it out on the fly and you kind of piecemeal together. Got doing what we can do. And what we can and It is november twenty seven. So it's time to remember a great. It was thirteen years ago today. That unfortunately sean taylor died at the age of twenty four of course protecting his home during armed robbery. So we're remembering a great good old. sean. Sean taylor was an incredible player and i still. They still have still no kill them right. They do sign. I forgot that there was a lot of weird circumstances with that thing right. There was underage. Guys yeah it was an unbelievable talent. And it's it's part of the story of the washington football team in in that the everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Don't get me wrong. i obviously. They've made some terrible decisions. But that's terribly bad luck on a guy who had hall of fame caliber talent to be taken even before. He got his prime league with the news. Well that's the news. And thanks for stopping by mike tempted to get to those pigs. I'm like so excited for it. I got to wait to wait forty minutes or so gotta wait. I have to wait forty. I gotta take a breath. Gotta wait forty minutes. There is a. There is a trend working on black friday which is very disturbing very disturbing. Why pure capitalism can in fact suck point that out next i'm doug gala this third. Be sure to catch live additions of the heard. Weekdays at noon eastern nine. Am pacific on fox sports radio f s one and the iheartradio app. There isn't exactly a playbook when it comes to podcasting but monday dot com is the closest. We've come our teams come to rely on monday. Dot com keeps us organized on track working towards goals as a team the intuitive online platform health. 'as work together on just about everything that makes this podcast. Come to live from collecting game. Stats the managing advertisers. We do it all on monday. Dot com. it really caught on with our team. Because of the ability to customize any workflow means marketing sales finance and meet all work one platform we built project. Timelines calculate expense reports. Manage our social media. Calendar everything in between using monday dot com. It's growing to it's easy for two or two hundred people to use. Every winning team needs to be on the same page us monday. Dot com setup is simple industry. Specific templates top-rated customer support endless ways to customize your workflow for a free two week trial head monday dot com monday dot com. We have a special message. Dell's offering massive discount on s and million where computers with intel core processors for black friday. You're getting access to a curated selection of premium tack plus free shipping on everything. Whether for work school or fought dell's gotcha covered. Call right now. Eight hundred buy dell or visit dell dot com slash blackfriday for up to four hundred dollars off. That's eight hundred by dell doug alley been for. Colonists is the heard heavy black friday t weird black friday right. Are they having are. Did people get up super early or did seems like. It's kind of more become cyber friday monday. Cyber monday is monday. Which means your email inboxes can be like just besieged by discount upon discount upon discount. There's this disturbing trend and i ryan. I think you're part of this. Disturbing trend guys bought up. Ps fives so. There's two main gaming systems. And i'm not. I am going to bore you but i'm gonna i'm gonna list. How many gaming systems. I never had a coleco vision but i did play coleco vision. There was atari really the first atari. Right there's atari. There was coleco vision. what else was there man. There's some really good ones as some really bad ones to The i like goat. Playing system nintendo did the first ever nintendo any system. That was the one that came with duck hunt and then the game that everybody played. I was super mario brothers. Then he had all the the ability to get ninety nine lives which takes away from the whole idea of it like i we went from. You used to this. You're know you're a child of the eighties. When you've been doing arcade and you go to the arcade and there is always some sketchy looking teenagers. That kind of ran. The arcade smokes cigarettes and had like what was the coolest. Bmx bike at the time they'd cool. Bmx bikes smoked a cigarette. Hair usually long. It was like the first guys where a mullet and you go in his arcade you bring in a dollar. You get four quarters. That was most games. Were only a quarter and What was the game which was like a movie sort of game and it was dragons lair and that one was like two quarters and felt like a total rip off and this is back in the days of the miss. Pacman like miss. Pacman was the was the biggest game. And you'd come in and you slide in and somebody playing the game you put a quarter on top of the machine and that signified i got mixed flew right so we went from from playing in arcades to wait a second. I get like games here as crazy. Right there is in television as well Tari coleco vision and television. Nintendo nintendo sixty four dreamcast. Sega genesis we got to a lot of things and then we got to the the. Ps two ps three. The ps four and there was xbox three sixty and then there is xbox is one. That's the one my my son is now on right. Xbox one and now they have the new xbox which is the xbox s is that what that is which is like. It's like a it's so there's there's a new xbox and there's a new playstation and the new playstation is kind of all the rage and there's a limited supply and i love the guys in denver like now we're really surprised at the supply like come on dude supply-and-demand you made half as many as you should and then you've got mooks. That are actually look. I i totally understand that. It is capitalism. You are allowed to do these things you are allowed to buy it hold onto it resell it. Make a profit on it. If they're gonna limit the supply you become that that secondary market like the the ticket scalper guy right every. That's the weird thing now. It's mean when you start to think about things like no ticket scalpers not just because the secondary ticket market but nobody getting these games. It's the weirdest okay. So here's my thing with. I'm to mark up the ps five guy. It's for kids for crying out loud i did. You'd be you'd become the asking for the autograph at the baseball game guy. You know who you are the guy who drives up the price of the ps fi. Don't tell me you're not smart. I understand you're smart. Like look with the prophet that i make on the second. Ps five i can pay for the first five. That's brilliant. that's fair but that is that is absolutely sinister guy. It's a kid's game dude autographs or for kids video games for kids now. Maybe part of this is. I'm playing to k twenty one with my son last night. And and if there's an ea sports gamemaker out there are you guys. I get the lakers are gonna be good and that they want a championship. They're not that good. I lined up there next to them with the brooklyn nets yesterday. Katie ninety five the bronze and ninety eight. Anthony davis never misses blocks every shot. And you're like okay. I got i keep getting by the lakers. I played the mavericks. They can't guard. I play the nets. They can't guard or make shots but my point is that at at their core video games for kids. It's a kids president. You become you become nothing worse than the lady that used to buy up the cabbage patch dolls and drive up the price there. This is a disturbing trend. This is like When when when team started going running shoot in the nfl. We gotta get back to the core. The core of nasr cars in the south. The core of the nfl is running the football and the corps of kids games. Are you know. Gouge people for prices ryan. Would you make the sale of your second playstation unit thirteen fifty. How long do you think those. It's there's still a limited supply. He's got one more. It's to sell it to me at at cost otherwise. I'll just get him. Accident from the radio bringing home to my kid today. Mazing mazing stuff mazing stuff like you know. So you're asking. Your kid asked santa claus santa. I've been good. I've done everything. Mom and dad want me to do and you're like hey santa's even having troubles with supply because sam santa's like look you know i haven't been able to have all the elves in here. I just haven't cova concerns. We've had to space everybody out. We've had to slow down production. I can't do the thing on the lap thing you see. They have these kids going to see santa in a mall but santa's like in a box. That's interesting just going to tell you that of the disturbing trends in all of sports in all of media there's lots in disturbing trends guy who gouges americans for kids video game system. You're right there on the list of the adult who goes to be the worst the adult who goes the baseball game and then gives the kid the baseball card to ask mike trout to sign it and then pays the kid for mike trout signing a card or a baseball A baseball so that they can then put it out on the internet. Forget that yes. I'm not the grinch if your if you're gouging people for the price of what is what is it sticker. The ps five five hundred bucks and he's charging thirteen fifty. Come on. come on. We might or might not have football this weekend in the biggest game of the weekend. That's next. i'm dugout debates. The hurt holiday season means stocking up on some essentials like decorations and an ugly sweater with the bank of america. Cash rewards credit card. You can choose her and three percent cashback on online shopping. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright two thousand twenty bank of america corporation. You know exactly where you were when the golden state killer was arrested your moderator on the zodiac killer separate gear in search of a new challenge. They hit podcast. That puts you at the center of the investigation. Solve is like no other mystery guest. You'll piece together. Evidence to track down killers hiding lane psyched. Your cases are waiting for new episodes of salt are available now on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts one crime four suspects can you solve it.

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Impeachment Questions Answered; Space Debris Could Collide Above Pittsburgh

Here & Now

40:56 min | 1 year ago

Impeachment Questions Answered; Space Debris Could Collide Above Pittsburgh

"From NPR and WBZ. Im Tanya Moseley. I'm Peter Oh down. This is here now and this afternoon. On Capitol Hill. Lawmakers will begin questioning Democratic house managers and the President's lawyers in the Senate impeachment trial and the question of whether witnesses will testify still very much up in the air joining us. Now is senator senator. Dick Durbin a Democrat from Illinois. He's also the Senate minority whip Senator Durbin. Welcome to hear now good to be with you and this trial moving into an important new stage today. What questions will you be asking? Well I have a question prepared. That's based on my work on the defense subcommittee of Appropriations and the fact fact that the administration was notified by the Department of Defense in August if they did not release the funds for Ukraine's defense. That there there was possible violation of law and secondly it may not be wouldn't have been possible to release all the funds within the fiscal year. My question obviously to the the president's team is once the president was notified that the money was going to be diminished and may be a violation of law. Why didn't you release it? Then what kind of answer do you expect to hear from the the president's team. I'm not sure because they've suggested that the president just spontaneously decided to release the funds that had nothing to do with the phone call with the president's Alinsky and that he was determined to help Ukraine. My question raises the point within zone administration. Where they warn that further delay in releasing them would diminish the refunds center Ukraine there was another development yesterday? Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell said that he does not yet have the votes to block witnesses from testifying there are some Republicans who want to hear from former national security adviser John Bolton who says in a book manuscript that the president and it told him that he held up Ukraine's military aid to try to get that investigation into Joe Biden. Do you believe that by the time the witness vote comes around on Friday that you you will have convinced enough. Republicans to come along with you on this issue. There is a glimmer of hope. This just might turn out to be a trial so far. It's not even close. I I used to try cases before I was elected to Congress what we've seen so far of four or five days presentation actually would be an opening statement agent at a trial. No evidence has been presented. It's been presumed and people on both sides talked about what the record shows in a regular trial that record would have have to be presented to a judge or jury decide whether or not it's admitted into evidence so this is not. This is not a typical trial. This is a political action more than anything really. So what are the same rules apply. Well the same rules don't apply but you expect in a trial in. That's what the constitution calls for that. There will be evidence. Evidence would clearly be documents and witnesses and I think that started away heavily on the minds of some Republican senators. How will they explain that for the first time in the history of the use of the impeachment clause in the constitution? There was a so-called trial but no witnesses showed up. Now you have said that you are against a witness swap in other words. It's to have John Bolton testify in exchange for Joe Biden. And why is that. Why not well? Because this isn't a trading a paternity for members of the Senate House. As far as I'm concerned it's a serious matter. The most serious matter under our constitution. This idea. Well let's bring in hundred Biden. See if we can spice a politically I get down to reality here. The reality is did that. Conversation with the president breach his authority in office and should it result in impeachment. I understand you may not like the idea of that swamp but if it means the difference between the American people hearing from John Bolton under oath or not hearing from him I I mean why not take that risk. I don't think it's reached that point. It's been suggested by one senator. Let me add their fifty. Three Republican senators so if it's the intent the Republicans to bring any member Biden family before this Senate they have the votes to do it. We will find out soon whether or not you have the votes to get. Those was witnesses but there are in your party. A senator at least three moderate Democrats who might vote eventually to acquit president trump. You've got Joe Manchin of West Virginia Kenya Doug Jones of Alabama cinema in Arizona. You are the whip. It is your job to get those votes together Are you confident right now that they will vote with Democrats Roy. Well I think many of your listeners may be surprised to learn that I I have a job with title that suggest I do a lot of arm twisting. That's the last thing in the world a with we'll do in the Senate really be successful. It just doesn't work and particularly when it comes to issues of conscience in issues of this magnitude these individual senators every individual democratic critic senators on their own. It's a matter of deciding what is best for this country. I hope that we stand together as a caucus but I respect each and every one of them whatever their decision maybe and what would it mean if if they vote to acquit. What a damage? The Democrats message on impeachment. Well I think the message is pretty clear as to what the president did and said in that conversation and whether it's stepped left over some line that most people would agree is inappropriate whether it is sufficient to reach the level of impeachment. Each center has to decide quickly. Senator you know the Iowa. The caucuses are just less than a week away. Now on Monday You have not endorsed yet. Are you willing to do so. No I have so many of my colleagues in the Senate running at this point For the presidency and many other qualified people as well and I'll just tell you that Having worked the Iowa Caucus for both with Paul Simon and Barack Obama I know it's quite a chore and quite an event I wish them all well. I hope we come up. With the strongest possible nominee Senator Dick Durbin Democrat from Illinois in the Senate Democratic Whip. Thanks for your time on this very busy day to Hong Kong now where the government is taking measures to stop the spread of Corona Corona virus on mainland China. More than six thousand people have been diagnosed and the death toll has risen to more than one hundred thirty. The government in Hong Kong has now reduced is to travel to the mainland and urged people to work from home. NPR Global Health and development reporter. Jason Bobi in there now. Hi Jason. Hello so we spoke to you on Monday. How is the level of response to the Corona virus change in Hong Kong and the past couple of days? It's definitely ramped up the city. The is taking very aggressive measures both to prepare for the potential rising number of cases to deal with suspected cases and to try to keep the virus out of Hong Hong Kong. They've shut down the high speed rail link to China if cancel all the ferry service that goes to the mainland. They've slashed the buses and planes scenes service bite about half and even close down six of the twelve border-crossing points go in between Hong Kong and mainland China. But not all of the ways to get in and out and why is that well because Hong Kong is very dependent on mainland China. We actually had his one top health official official yesterday. He was talking about how Hong Kong has to make sure that it still has a food. Supply the links between Hong Kong and China are immense and shutting down that border would be incredibly disruptive to life here and so they're not going to do it lightly. We're seeing scenes of crowded emergency rooms and frantic medical personnel from mainland China. What's the situation at hospitals there in Hong Kong yet so Hong Kong is only actually dealing with a handful of actual confirmed cases yet? The hospitals are already overwhelmed and stressed and they're setting up new isolation wards. They've got dozens and dozens of suspected cases that show up every day. These people need to be isolated. They need to be tested for the virus. Those tests need to get sent to the lab. Somebody he has to analyze them staff have to wear these special protective suits just to deal with the waiting room with the triage people were trying to To screen people because the problem is some people just have the common cold but they can't rule out that they may have this new corona virus of the hospitals even set up lottery system for the nurses to determine who has to work on these isolation wards. And they've put staff on these schedules where the working fourteen days on and then they're gonNA. It gets single day off so things are really quite tense in the hospitals here even though we're still dealing with a fairly small number of actual confirmed armed cases. Do you know of Hong Kong is considering setting up a site for quarantining sick people. They actually have some campsites that they're going to be trying to uses as quarantine zones one other option that they had was a public. Housing Tower was a high-rise building and it had nine hundred apartments in it yet. The neighbors were so upset about this that they actually torched the building owner Carrie. Lam the executive Here in charge of Hong Kong. She was just just criticizing these these people for doing that yesterday and they have banned people from WHO Bay province from coming in and yet there are people here who say it's not enough so it's a fairly contentious situation between Carrie Lam and the people who are saying that she should be doing more. I WanNa ask you about something else. You went it to a seafood market in Hong Kong. It's called a wet market because of the fish and other animals They're alive when they're sold. Researchers think that this virus might might have crossed from animals to humans and a wet market and Wuhan for those who don't know what this wet market is. Can you describe it for us. Yeah it seems seems like this might have been the place that this corona virus appeared from in China so wanted to get a sense of. What are these places? Look like and it's just a very big chaotic market. You know it looks like a a large industrial building. It's got tubs of live fish rush. There's people that are filleting. The fish right there the Fisher flopping on the actual counters and there's chickens in this one. They've got turtles models and these animals are also being slaughtered there and so they preferred who is a wet market because there's water and there's blood and there's other do things on the floor and they're cleaning it up as it goes but researchers say you could get an animal virus in a situation where it moves from animals into humans and becomes a new disease and that's what they believe happened with this corona virus. That's NPR's Jason Bobi and Hong Kong. Jason Thank you so much. You're welcome. We've been taking a deeper look at where the candidates stand and on key issues important to voters today we look at immigration. President trump ran on the promise of building a US Mexico border wall and during his presidency. He has worked work to make it harder for many migrants to apply for silom among other things. Some of the other top Democratic candidates are promising to reverse his actions joining joining us to talk about what Democrats are pledging to do a Sima Meta political writer for the La Times. She's an Iowa ahead of the caucuses. Welcome thanks for having me. I WANNA start with the news this week. The Supreme Court allowed a trump administration plan to go forward that could deny green cards to immigrants who need public assistance offence. What's been the reaction from twenty twenty candidates and we've heard a couple of candidates? Speak out about this already. I was at an event with the Mayor Buddha's yesterday Just outside of two moines and he was asked by voters about the specific case and he started quoting scripture. You know saying that you know the strangers was to be welcomed at this is sort of a core tenant of his faith And he really spoke about how this was sort of. Unconscionable we've also heard Elizabeth Warren. She tweeted about this. And we're probably I mean if you look at what the candidates have said about immigration and about about the trump administration's policy. This is an area where you're going to see a lot of agreement. I mean there's not a lot of daylight in other immigration policy their differences here and there but in terms of sort of cutting down access access. you know for people who are in the country illegally who are seeking a documentation. This is an area where you're going to see broad agreement among the Democratic candidates. Let's talk about some of those other there Big Questions on immigration. What our candidates saying about president trump's push to build a wall along the US border They're already some structures that are up. WHAT WOULD DEMOCRATS CRAT STU I most of them are completely against the wall? Some of them have the if you look at some of them have in some of the members who have been in the Senate for for example in the passive occasionally voted for uh-huh border funding Some earlier this year. I'm sorry late last year. When there was discussion about Daca young people were brought into this country illegally? When they're very young Some of them said that there they were amenable to some compromise. Like if you grant these young people citizenship might do a little bit of border funding But largely I mean they're pretty much in lockstep up in opposing the president's policies. They talk about several of them. Senator Klobuchar they talk about you. On the first hundred days using any type of executive action they could to undo Many of the president's policies the areas where you see some distinction is whether you know crossing the border illegally whether it should remain a crime or whether that'd be a civil we'll offense for example send closer she would keep it a crime other people like Bernie Sanders would decriminalize that decriminalizing illegal border crossings. That's something the thing that former vice president Joe Biden does not support here. He is at debate this summer. We're in a circumstance where if in fact you say you can just crossed the border. What do you say to all those people around the world who in fact want the same thing to come United States and make their case meant they don't that they have? I have to wait. Line the fact of the matter is you should be able to. If you cross the border illegally you should be able to be sent back. It's a crime this is an interesting topic in that It's been shown that Americans do want some sort of reform They perhaps wants some. I'm sort of a change at the border crossings. But exactly what they want. is still a question whether these candidates really address what the public wants. Well I think The former vice vice president is really an interesting spot because he's faced a lot of criticism from activists in throughout this campaign because during he was part of the Obama administration deportations rose was to record levels. During the Obama Administration. Someone's activists called President Obama the reporter and chief so he's as the live scrutiny on on the campaign trail. I mean I think you're exactly right. I mean if there's anything that people in both parties agree on it's that the immigration system is incredibly broken on the way it currently exists. They obviously differ very much in how they would fix exit. I WanNa talk to you about its immigration and customs enforcement which of course is responsible for deportations Bernie Sanders has called for the breaking up of Ice Elizabeth. Warren has called for the remaking of ice. How big of an issue is this? What our candidates saying well? This is an area where you actually can see some differences among the candidates in the field. I was at Bernie Sanders. There's rally on Saturday in the Ames and he was with Alexandria causing Cortez and she when she brought this up as a huge point in this was very very popular with the crowd that wants to. Do you have children in cages at the border once you have babies being from their mother's arms at the border that there is no reforming ice that needs to be abolished Other candidates take a more measured approach for example former South then mayor He sort of leans on his Mackenzie background here and that he wants to study it figure out what to do with ice. But he doesn't. He's not calling for abolishing it warrants and other ones so this is an area whether it's a little bit of daylight between the candidates another Issue that many Democrats are bringing up is increasing aid to Central American countries WHERE MIGRANTS OF COURSE COMING FROM HERE Senator Warren in September debate? Why do we have a crisis at the border in no small part because we have withdrawn help from the people in Central America who are suffering? We need to restore that help. We need to help establish a reestablish the rule of law so that people people don't feel like they have to flee for their lives. A number of candidates are also promising to protect so called dreamers of those are people who are brought to the country illegally illegally as children here Senator Bernie Sanders at a San Diego rally in December we will restore the legal status to the one point date million young people and their parents eligible for the Baka program. What if some of the other candidates Democratic candidates said set about DACA? Buddha judge coach are some of those others and this is an area where there's broad agreement that something has to be done for these these young people maybe all talk about this being one of their the top priorities tip. You know if they're elected to do this as soon as they get into office to take steps to protect these people Some of them also talk about expanding for example sanders who you just played. He would expand it to their your parents Kluber Sherwood raise the age for for which people were eligible which would also increase the number of people who could apply. Yeah you know when we talk about about This issue of immigration were often talking about coastal areas but former South Bend Indiana Mayor Pete. Buddha judge has spoken about what immigration can do for rural rule areas. Let's listen heart of my plan for revitalizing. The economies of Rural America includes community renewal visas that would allow cities towns and counties. That are hurting not only jobs for population to embrace immigration as we have in my city you know the only reason that south bend is growing right now after years. Years of shrinking is immigration That's an interesting take have have other candidates talked about this about spurring. The economies and other parts of the country intrigue through immigration former Vice President Biden. He's proposed allowing local governments to petition for new immigration visas to support economic growth. If there aren't enough local workers to jobs. I'm just sort of a new proposal. We're hearing this cycle. I don't think we've heard before and it's interesting. I mean being in Iowa I was obviously an incredibly homogenous state. It's a very. It's more than ninety percent white but there's certain pockets of you know when you get outside of the The Metro areas there these rural areas where young people are leaving and they need workers and you see some areas that have you know. have an increase in Latino workers. I think it started out long ago with the slaughterhouses etc.. But it's certainly expanded since then. I'm so I think it's an interesting area where people are talking about. You know where they're just simply aren't enough American workers I to fill the needs of a community. You're in Iowa as you as you just mentioned Has that been a topic of conversation about those immigrant populations in Iowa how they make up Iowa and maybe some of the candidates are trying to reach them. I mean immigration has come up on the campaign trail but it hasn't come up as much as some other issues is just because I think because there is such broad agreement among the Democratic candidates among the field About these proposals about what. The right thing is to deal with. People who are in the country illegally On the Republican side which have covered here in Pascal's it hasn't been much more of a flashpoint terms of what should happen to them. We talked about this a little bit but presidents on on both parties have failed to tackle comprehensive immigration reform for years. I mean this has been an issue if a Democrat is elected. What do you think the chances are that? They'll actually have success. I think it would depend on the makeup of the Senate. I mean there are some policy areas. Where if you look at the polling? There's pretty broad agreement among among Americans about what should happen in terms of you know for people who have been in this country for decades who have not committed crimes who have worked who paid into the system There's question about you should do they. They become citizens or to become legal residents but there is sort of agreement that you know we're not kicking out eleven million people. The question is once we we saw this Under George W Bush how the President Obama once it gets caught up in Congress and the Senate. It's it it just keeps stalling. Even when there does seem to be a chance of reaching agreement so I think it really depends on the makeup of the Senate Sima Meta is a political writer for the La Times. She's in Iowa right. Now for the Iowa caucuses thank you so much for joining us. Thank you and there's a lot more information on the candidates plans online senator. Elizabeth Warren for instance is is calling for ending unnecessary detention of immigrants. She wants to parole some of who have immigration cases pending in the US who don't pose a flight or safety risk former New York mayor. Michael Bloomberg like other candidates supports a pathway to citizenship for the eleven million estimated undocumented immigrants in the US Bloomberg told told the San Diego Union Tribune that the US needs to improve border security while increasing aid to the countries where migrants are fleeing Andrew. Yang would expand the number of highly skilled emigrants allowed in the US. His website says quote any highly rated worker or graduating student who receives a graduate degree. Here should be given. A Green car are to remain in this country as a permanent resident I there was stopped Tober for smoking an attempt to get people to stop smoking for a month. Then we saw dry January a bid to get people to boost free four-month the January is now the latest campaign to get people to cut out animal products this month. Hundreds of thousands of people around the world signed an online pledge to go Vegan for time and many are actually following following through with it a market research firm that looked at grocery receipts estimates more than a million people in the UK alone may be participating Sophie East reports parts from London. It's Monday lunchtime at daily. A buzzing eatery beneath railway arch. And he's London with a menu is one hundred two percent Vegan. Did the jerk bowl would be chicken. An an obsolete delicious Alec Lazar is effective for your old management consultant who lives nearby. I used to eat meat or dairy every meal. But he's taken up the January lachey because he's worried about climate change more rain forest that we demolishing in favor good posture is do damage to biodiversity. And it's also unsustainable Alex Waco Full Vegan. But he says the off to this experience he's committed did even if we have to make change difficult for us we have to if we won the planet to be in a state trump children. Our Children's children in fact. The British government's advisory panel on climate change is recommending that people cut the amount of meat and dairy. They buy a fifth southeast of London. Kent colleague Atwood's Day a tutor has taken up the challenge with her husband. Graham a prison officer cooking three bean enchiladas but dinner with the help of a seven-year-old due to libby is Graham gives their one zero t above. If you told me last January but I was ever going to try I would have laughed but something happened happened. I had a stroke about a year and half guy when I was pregnant when I was only thirty six at a time. I've I've got my whole left side of my face. Mouth on an hands are completely non colleagues intensely aware of brush with death and she's read. The plant based Diet has been linked to a reduced risk of stroke and heart disease. She'll stay largely vegan going forward of children. I want to be as healthy as as I am. Dan cawley still giving her kids. The option of eating animal products. Is Libby what she thinks a Vegan sausages territory the look so does Abby Rita in south Wales. I should be glad to see the Puck of Uganda rain. As soon as we head says the February. I'll be celebrating. Abby foams beef even dairy she says people don't need to go Vegan to save the planet the Agricultural Industry here in the UK House operation to become a neutral by twenty eighty. Forty is going to be met by improving productivity on farms so about looking outs or renewable energy planting trees where it's appropriate to plant trees. While the war on words between Farmers Vegans may semi down come February. The explosion of plant based alternatives in British shops and restaurant chains suggests this trend and will only grow. This is the BBC Sofi still reporting for NPR news in London. The United Nations warned today that the world must be on alert as the new corona virus spreads beyond China fifteen countries have confirmed cases of the virus bringing the total number worldwide to more than sixty one hundred most mostly all of them are in China and just over one hundred and thirty people have died. Five cases cases have been confirmed in the US and though the risk to Americans remains low. Emergency rooms are on high alert. They're putting measures into place to avoid the spread of the disease. Jolyon McGreevy is the medical director of the Emergency Department at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York. City Dr McGreevy. Welcome to here now. Thank you for having and we understand. You've had a pretty hectic week because you've had some suspected cases of corona virus. Come through the emergency department. Tell me what you've seen. Correct so suspected cases. Nothing confirmed We see people who are coming in with flu like illnesses. And we have a travel history to China and so our standard procedure and those cases is is to give those people mask. Put them in what we call an airborne isolation room and go through the history to try to figure out how high risk they are working with both our infection prevention teams and the State Department of Health who what is an airborne isolation room. Do you just have those around the emergency department. So we do. Every emergency agency department has these. They are special rooms designed to prevent any kind of tiny particles in the air from leaving their room and going to other parts of the emergency department so there are a negative pressure room. Negative air pressure relative to the spaces around them There is exchanged filtered. And so if you have somebody who who is at risk for having some sort of what we call airborne illness you would put him in that room for screening and evaluation. What are doctors and nurses actually wearing? Are they wearing protective suits and masks. They are so everybody who comes in contact with us with patience is wearing protective equipment. We actually wear a number of items so you have the usual gloves. We also add a gallon for what we call contact precautions as well as a special kind of respirator. Mask on an n n ninety five masks and this is a mask. The catch is very small particles. So that's really the important mask you need. And then we wear on top of that face shield so really. There's four layers of protection section for caregivers for these patients. Do the doctors feel like they are adequately protected. Our people concerned about their own health. Yeah I think I think naturally the people are you know there's varying levels of degree of concern but on the whole people drill this in practice. This are used to wearing this kind of equipment and have standard procedures so overall we're all I would say that the confidence really high that people feel safe and protected when they care for these patients. How do you test these patients and confirmed that it's corona virus or not? Something just just like the flu. We actually do start testing them for the flu. Because odds art is something like the flu or one of the other cold viruses. If as the end of the day those things are negative. We have a high enough suspicion based on their symptoms and their travel history to China then ultimately that tests can be sent to the CDC so the only test that can be performed for this novel. Corona rotavirus is at the CDC. Is it a blood test. It is a respiratory secretion test. So you send that sample off to the CDC but then what. What do you do with the patient while you wait for the test results so at the moment we actually have not sent samples to the CDC so in collaboration with the Department of Health our infection prevention folks talking talking to the CDC? They've felt that the patients didn't need to be tested for this virus so wall They had some symptoms somewhat concerning some travel history ultimately. They were hello enough risk that they could return home and You know be careful there. Would you'd have to prepare for that situation to change that. Eventually you will get one of these patients and you will need you. Just send that test off certainly so those patients still may end up going home depending on the CDC recommendation because that may actually be the safest thing to do rather rather than having them stay in the hospital exposed to other patients but again that'll be sort of a CDC State Department of Health Recommendation is sure how does what you're doing in New York and what other the. US hospitals are doing across the country. I assume they're doing something similar. How does that compare to? What's being done in China? Are there major differences between emergency emergency departments here and their overall. We really have the ability to fully screen people mask them get them into the right kind of isolation room. I don't know for sure but I think with the volume and concern in China would be much harder to do all those procedures so far there have been nearly six thousand dog nosed cases of Corona virus around the world but by comparison. There's Ben Eight thousand flu deaths already this year in the United States alone and last year there were sixty. You One thousand flu deaths in this country. Do you think that this much concern around. The Corona virus is justified. Are we over preparing so I don't I think you can be over prepared. I think is justified in the sense that this virus is new and so we just don't know I'd make sense for people to be vigilant. I do agree that really the primary thing that people should be thinking about this season is flew the your risk of getting flu and having some sort of severe or adverse outcome related to it is much higher so it's really important that people people get vaccinated and then follow all this kind of precautions for both viruses flu and the corona virus. which is you know covering your mouth and you cough and really good hand hygiene warm water? Twenty seconds that's Dr Jolyon McGreevy. He's medical director of the Emergency Department at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City Dr McGreevy thanks so much. Thank you so much another science story. We're following is happening later tonight in outer space. Five hundred and sixty miles above Pittsburgh. Two satellites are on on course to pass within a few hundred feet of each other. And there's a pretty decent chance they will collide. The debris are an idol NASA telescope from the nineteen eighties and an old old. US Air Force satellite first launched in nineteen sixty seven the space debris tracking company Leo. Labs said today that there is a one in twenty chance of a crash rush for more. We're joined by. Brian Weeden with the Secure World Foundation and he studies space debris Brian. Welcome glad to be here. These are big satellites traveling Avelino very fast nine miles per second. What happens if they do collide? Well nothing did you know. In the short term essentially the two satellites would disintegrate into thousands and thousands of tiny pieces Unlike let's say a car wreck where they would come to a halt. They're still gonNA keep going largely on their original trajectory with original velocity. So you're going to see two objects that were going around. The earth in separate circles are suddenly become thousands of objects going around the earth in separate circles in over time. All those new objects are gonNA kind of spread out and then sort of become almost a background radiation hazard. I WanNa ask you about that in just a minute minute but first of all I mean like if that explosion does happen with people on the ground in Pittsburgh see it. I mean could any of the breeze rain down on earth. So it's going to happen in about six hundred miles above the earth and at that altitude debris takes usually years to a couple of decades cades to come back into the atmosphere so no people are not gonNA. There's no risk to the earth immunity from this collision and it's not really an explosion Asia in that you're not gonNA see a fireball in space because there's no oxygen for that to happen. It's small enough that it's very unlikely they would see anything that would kind of happen happen. We know that space junk is a growing problem. There's a lot of stuff orbiting around the earth. Some countries like China and India have even blown up their own own satellites in space. And what kind of risk is this big picture to to space travel so there are the moment. Roughly two thousand two hundred functional national satellites orbiting the Earth and they're joined by about twenty five thousand pieces of debris bigger than a softball some the size of buses uh-huh and that's all kind of the result of our activities in space to last fifty years. If you don't for any given satellite the risk is not that high. It's maybe a few percent per year but over the entire population of satellites. That's a lot and the challenges that it's GonNa make all that debris is going going to make orbiting in space and operating satellites more costly more risky and sometimes you may not be able to afford that so we might lose critical services services like weather forecast data or some communications data. So is there any way to sweep it up. Get rid of it. I mean it's moving so fast a job like that seems very dangerous. Are there any solutions. Well there's quite a bit of discussion over the last twenty years about the technology to remove these kinds dead objects. There are few companies companies out there. That are actually working on this. The technology is is difficult. But it's not the really hard part. The really hard part is who pays for it a lot of these satellites. Dead debris are leftover from government missions. That happened decades ago. And there's not a lot of interest from governments men's and paying more money to go up and remove all this stuff so the moment that's really the biggest challenge. Brian Weeden with the Secure World Foundation. Talking to us about doc the possibility that too large satellites in space could collide over Pittsburgh this evening. Thanks for your time Brian. Welcome every day. There's a swirl of new developments from the impeachment trial and even if you're one of those who spend hours watching shing it it can be hard to make sense of everything going on so we wanted to answer some of your questions and to do that we've brought in. NPR senior editor and correspondent Ron elving. Welcome Ron good to be with you. Well thanks for being here. We know there are so many rules that govern the trial for example senators are not supposed to talk during the impeachment. Teach me trial but they can speak to the press during breaks. We get a lot of questions about senators behavior. Our first question comes from Karen Johnson Ascend. Who Asks why are senators? Not being admonished for leaving the room reading books talking to each other and giving interviews when they are supposed to be listening due to the prosecutors. The simple answer is because chief justice. John Roberts doesn't feel like playing the role of if you will schoolmarm and and telling them all to get back to their seats. The discipline must be imposed by the presiding officer. There's really no one else to do it. And he does not seem to be inclined to do it. The behavior behavior is actually gotten better because people have gotten more interested in sitting down and listening to what was being said but there has been a lot of reach of of the rules that you describe speaking of a Chief Justice John Roberts and his role. We also received quite a few questions about that. Corey author low asks Can Justice Roberts compel hell the White House to comply with subpoenas for documents and or witnesses that would involve the court. Not just John Roberts he could not as is the presiding officer in this trial simply declare that The subpoenas that might have been issued earlier by the house or any subpoenas that might be issued now had to be honored by the president. Generally speaking would not begin at the Supreme Court level it would begin at district court level. Then go to an appeals court would take weeks months before that was ruled. Don It's not inconceivable that the court could move faster but we haven't seen very little inclination on the part of this court to move at the speed of impeachment speech Mitch. This next question comes to us from Danielle Harare. Let's listen. My Name Is Danielle Harare and I'm from Boston. My question is in regards to the twenty any twenty presidential election if president trump is impeached with the acting president Mike Pence automatically entered as a Republican presidential candidate. F Not. Is there enough time for another Republican candidate to campaign before the election. Right Mike Pence I think would be automatically interested in being the nominee but that does not make him the nominee and there would have to be processed and if Mike Pence wanted to be president there would probably be some other Senate Republicans Gubernatorial Republicans. Who would want to run as well as you know? RUN President Trump tweets a lot. In fact that's probably probably an understatement. To say he tweets a lot Erin of California wants to know how much control Senate Republicans have on trump's tweets. Here's his question. Trump has implied that his tweets are legal and binding by his response required of the Wars Power Act via tweet. Can Congress use his tweets as legal and binding as part of the impeachment since he considers them legal and binding yes they have been declared an essence to be official White House statements. So if he says or does something with his twitter account that would seem to be obstructing Congress or ultimately in perhaps another preceding obstructing justice. Just which is not accused of in this impeachment trial and That doesn't happen to be a piece of evidence. The Democrats are using particularly in this particular preceding. This next question is in regards to how impeachment works if there are enough votes. Let's listen. My name is Bobby Hutchins. I'm from Bar Harbor Maine and my question is he is if there were enough votes to remove trump from office. How does that procedure work? How long would it take and what would happen if trump refused it to leave? We're in somewhat uncharted waters here. Because no president has ever been compelled to leave and in the cases of the two other impeachment processes is that we've seen Nixon voluntarily resigned before he was impeached and removed in the case of back in the eighteen sixties and again with Bill Clinton the Senate chose not to remove the president. We don't really have any guidelines here. One assumes that the judgment of the Senate would be enforced by the Supreme Court and at that point the president would no longer have the authority to be president or call himself president. Someone else would Mike Pence would and legal authorities would follow his word rather than Donald Trump's You know this next question from Chelsea from Massachusetts. I think it's the question that lots of Americans want to know as they watch. She wants to know the likelihood based on the makeup of the Senate of removing trump from office. It's simply not likely we are debating at this moment whether there would be a handful of Republicans lukens four at minimum. Maybe a half dozen. Who would be willing to vote for a rule allowing for witnesses and so that's a question mark whether there would be four if the Senate Republicans were going to vote to remove the president there would need to be twenty of them and at this point? There's no indication that we're anywhere near that number or even for that matter single digits. So it's a long long steps from where we are now to twenty Republicans being willing to vote to remove the president from office. That's NPR's Ron. Ron elving Ron Thank you here and now is a production of NPR IN WB. You are in association with the BBC World Service. I'm Tanya mostly Pierrot doubt and you're listening between two. I'm Jeremy Hobson will broadcast from Iowa. Where the caucuses are just days away? We'll hear from voters experts and also from former candidate and DNC chair Howard Dean. He made all the headlines on the night of the Democratic Credit caucuses in two thousand and four the most headlines of anybody that ever came in third. We'll broadcast from Iowa next time on here and now.

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Week In Review: Follow The Money, Two Month Tax Holiday?

Radio Boston

39:49 min | Last month

Week In Review: Follow The Money, Two Month Tax Holiday?

"This is radio boston. i'm donna during. Hey it's friday so you knew that means. It's time for a week in review. And today we follow the money from the push over a newton to ban gun sales and gun shops to governor baker big ideas suspend sales taxes for all of august and september with tax revenues. Coming in at a much higher than expected rate. we think that two month reprieve from the sales tax. A six percent cut for all intents and purposes on all items it would typically be taxed at that rate is both affordable and the thing to do to support our people and our small businesses but many democratic leaders on beacon hill and elsewhere are saying. Hey let's use that money. In other ways. For example state. Senator eric lesser speaking to nbc. Ten boston right now to me feels more about scoring headlines that could do for fixing the t to to what that could do for hiring more teachers. The battle for money also takes center stage in the city of boston. Acting maher janey. My budget includes three point. Two billion dollar capital planned. It is the largest in our city's history. I believe that now is the time to invest in boston. But the city council which includes three people running against jaime panned. The mayor's plans here. City councilor lydia edwards dealing from the racial recognize a reckoning that we've had dealing with this his stomach racism and concerns of the boston police department. If we look back on this moment that this budget meet that moment it does. It does not and we are going to start there in the money in the politics one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to join the conversation. Don't let your eyes cross or turn the dial just because we're talking about budget budgets. This is money. there are billions on the line. These fights effect when communities and individuals get services and relief. They need. where do you think that power should lie. Do you wanna see kim genie's budget go through or should the boston city council have more say that's just the start. The conversation one eight hundred four two three eight two five five joining us this week for the week in review charlie chippy. Oh a senior fellow. At the pioneer institute and principal of chippy oh strategies and a new we can review voice. Marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center. Charlie welcome back to you. Thanks good to be here. And marie francis welcome to weaken review. Thank you for having me on excited. All right let's do this and There's no better indication of a return to normal than when the news we talk about is politics and fights over money and you tour just the people to talk about it. So let's start most locally here in boston just around down for the listeners. To things happening. I the city council and acting mayor janey attempting change to the budgeting process to give the council more power over the money. A boston globe editorial board Their editorial board actually calling that out today as an end run around the city charter in a quote unquote grab for power. So now the council is also pushing back on acting near kim genie's current budget proposal. Three point seven six billion dollars. One voice andrea campbell is who's running against janey says no so our counselors michelle wu and in usa siber- george also seemed to be pushing back. The vote is on the thirtieth of june. Not guaranteed lots going on there. Just general reactions. Charlie just my first reaction is that i would avoid any kind of large structural change in the way the state of the way. The city does budgeting In the midst of a budget debate in which a third. Or i'm sorry. A quarter of the of the council is running for mayor. That just doesn't seem to me to be a real good A real good recipe for certain long term Thoughtful reforms and race does hangover. All of this. Mary francis i understand. You're personally supporting councilor wu from air so we just wanna be clear about this. Is this fight between the council members in the acting mayor is it about politics is at about money. What do you think it's actually about so. This conversation is pretty long standing during the racial reckoning. That happened this was ongoing active conversation about who has power to make budget decisions to have input into budgets whether they be on the city level of their state level. So i think these conversations are really important to have in power should be shared and this is the people's money so More folks people in leadership should have access to to input into my decisions on on budgets so to the two of you in the news reporting about this tension around the budgets. Lots keeps coming up about complaints from the other city councillors about poor communication from the acting mayor. That doesn't sound like it's about money charlie. Well if that's what really what it is and i mean. I don't know that that may well be true. And if it is true they certainly They certainly have reason to be concerned about that. And they should Advocate make it clear that they expect more and better communication It's just. I guess i would say that. I really don't have the deep insight into that enough to know whether that is kind of a political ploy or if that is actually the kicks so murray francis what are the fault lines in this budget where where are the tension substantively in this budget. Sure so it's a tension. That from what i understand has been happening for a while. Which is one it's around. You know the police budgets and that's something that not only the city council earns but they're responding to calls from their constituents that are worried about growing police budgets and that are also worried about under investments in housing and other social services. So charlie They acting mayor has said that her budget reduces police over time Several city council members have pushed back and said reform needs to go deeper than that. Interestingly the acting mayor actually voted against mayor walsh's budget last year. And you do wonder i mean. The power of the purse is always tied up in politics and it does always seem that this is one way to force others to change behavior so making big deal on this but at the same time is the really anything unusual going on marie-france assorted referenced already. This stuff happens. I would argue that. It is probably just Upper level of the degree and the intensity. Certainly i'm not naive enough to think that this stuff doesn't happen In every case. Now i think the police piece is his very interesting. You know. i've done some work around. That and i certainly come out and written you know very clearly that i think things like qualified immunity need to end But i'm just. I'm very interested to see what kind of reforms we see I had no problem with reducing the police budget. If we're also a adding in the necessary reforms and Reducing the the sort of large array of things that. The police are now responsible to do that. Probably our best done elsewhere. I don't think that just sort of taking a cleaver to the budget is is is the way to do it. And i think that if this reform is done right This could really be transformative and this could. This could really be a very positive thing for the city going forward. Okay in a minute. We're gonna turn our attention to a bunch of state budget issues and listeners. I'm gonna put the ask out to you now so that you can call in at one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five eight hundred four to three talk. I'll ask you do you support. The governor's idea of a two month tax holiday and in the fight between the governor and the legislature on who should control federal relief money. Who do you wanna see. Allocating that money i recognize. I just jumped ahead for listeners. You know we gotta manage a lot of different moving parts here before we go to those subjects. Though charlie marie francis i do want to ask one other question. 'cause there's there's bridging the city of boston in the state there. Is this interesting potential battle between the boston public schools and the state so boston public schools has about four hundred thirty million in elementary and secondary school. Emergency relief called esser. That's funding coming from the federal government. State education commission jeff. Riley has threatened to freeze it in concerns over the turmoil in the boston public school committee. Here he is on tuesday. I am extremely concerned about what transpired on that school committee. They've lost four members this year. Two of whom are board chairs and the fact that there's nearly a half a billion dollars i think it's four hundred and thirty million dollars. That are coming. Esser funding Makes me nervous About what's happening in boston. And so we're going to wait and see and look at the stability in what happens with that board. So we had superintendent brennan conciliates kosciusko. The boston public schools on air yesterday. She pushed back on that a little also suggested and this was a little bit of news to us that they have other oversight. They're planning to put in place to make sure. That money is allocated your. She is working to put in an oversight office within the boston. Public schools so that we're good stewards of the funding and make sure that we hold ourselves accountable for the implementation monitoring of that funding. So this is that tension between oversight and speed in this case. Wait to get the federal funds until the oversight is kinda fixed in the boston public schools committee or allow other kinds of oversight and get that money out fast. Murray francis how do we think there's always a tension between oversight and speed. How do we think about it. In this case we absolutely should not be holding this funding back in a punitive way it from our students in our teachers and staff in schools. I think that. Just uncalled for This is money that needs to get into schools now. Schools need to update their systems. Are you know we students and teachers need funding now and because of some issues that have been going on on the school committee level. I do not think that funding should be held back from young people. Because of that charlie agree. No have a different view on that one. I'll tell you the boston. Public schools have an obscene amount of their resources tied up in court street and their their main office rather than in classrooms where it should be They had an audit just last all that That determine you know top to bottom you know managerial issues problems The public schools. Unfortunately like any large and Doesn't work to improve on. Its own and i think that it you know in a situation like this with this long history of underperforming schools and the the trend of the district wants again going in the wrong direction. I think you've gotta take every chance at every opportunity you have for some leverage to try to really Put some things in place that are really going to provide some long term improvement in this system. Okay always satisfying to get both sides of the coin. There's still more at the city level. But i want to go to the state now. So there's a lot going on about money in the state house and again it's a battle of wills and about who gets control this time it's between the legislature and the governor. I want to start with the state budgets listeners. You need to know three things to follow along with us here one. We will not have a budget in place for the new fiscal year at the beginning. And that's not unusual to or at least anymore to the governor has proposed a five point. Four billion dollar gap filler. Give him the ability to make some advanced payments to cities and towns and three the legislature is pushing back hard. Because what the governor's proposing would also give him control over about half of the five point. Two billion dollars in federal pandemic aid that has been allotted to the commonwealth. So i think sometimes people's eyes glaze over when we talk about numbers but billions of dollars. Here this fight between the governor and the legislature is a big deal. Murray francis isn't it yes it's a huge deal and like i said similar to city budgets. It's important that we talk about who has power over decision. Making these are billions of dollars. Our state budget overall is about fifty billion dollars a year. The federal funding that's flexible. That's coming into the state that the legislature and the governor have been jockeying over who controls the purse strings of is five billion dollars. It's a lot of money what we've been saying. Is we believe that the legislature has the ability to run a process where there are public hearings. where constituents can reach out to their representatives to your voice where they'd like that money directed so that's where we stand in the back and forth of the governor's the legislature charlie that brings est. Sorry sorry murray francis charlie that brings us again to this question of speed versus oversight and i guess i am assuming that in fact the governor can move faster than the legislature to make allegations. Am i right and is that speed important right now. And is it worth the oversight tradeoff. i mean. we've heard you there. The difference is that there is certainly a difference in speed. And that's why. I mean i kind of like the governor's proposal on this where you know some of the money. He would have a control over so we can get it out right away for certain causes. That really needed immediate attention and the rest legislature Would have control over. I tell you i on this one. I fall back on recent experience and my own experience in state government. I'm thinking particularly of both. You know the romney and the patrick administrations look in the first term and a half of governor baker we've had a real Sort of rare moment of cooperation. Here where these were. These branches have worked together quite well and what i'm seeing You know more recently has been a real return to the sorta patrick romney kind of situation where you know the legislature ran the shell. They made it clear that they ran the show and they and They were going to go whatever to whatever ends. They needed to to enforce that. And i don't really think that i think more collaborative and more sort of mixed Power really serves people come off better all right so here is another place that that horn locking is going on. It's the governor's proposed two month. Sales tax holiday baker says we can afford it because of tax surplus is the legislature and other critics. Say not so fast. Mr. it's the wrong use of money. Just an example marina genie president of the massachusetts teacher association. Speaking to. wb. You are about the proposal. Our public schools are public. Colleges are roads. Bridges basic infrastructure has gone for decades without the investment. Now is not the time to say. Let's stop revenue sources and continue to delay those investments so murray francis before we even dive into the merits. We have just come through an economic crisis. How on earth is it that we are at a point where we're looking at surplus of tax collection such that there might be nine hundred million dollars play well. The baseline that we're operating from to get that surplus is actually chronic. Underfunding of childcare. Chronic underfunding of k twelve schools higher education etc our transit systems. So we're working from a baseline that's not adequate to meet the needs of our communities so therefore we have this surplus in. It's a real surplus. It's nine hundred million dollars Well for the proposal. That governor baker putting forth is nine hundred million dollars and we have to be strategic about how we utilize that funding and the proposal governor baker says. The people deserve a break. So let's give people a break with his two month. Sales tax holiday people deserve investments in their communities that are targeted and renamed to be visionary about how we use this money that that we have on end so charlie. I'm going to turn to you and ask you if you take the counter viewpoint. Which is that. The sales tax were there regressive in their collected from people. Why not give people back their money. That is the counterpoint is at your counterpoint. Or are you on the same pages. Murray francis on this. Well i would say kosher them refresh on this one than i am to the governor. I think that i could definitely. I could definitely see an argument for a slightly extended tax holiday this year given what taxpayers have been through but I would say you know. Maybe you go from a weekend two weeks or something like that. I certainly would not go to two months. I think that A generally speaking. I would agree that there are better ways to spend that money than to Give it give that much. We're talking about something in the area of nine hundred million dollars or something like that. If it goes to full two months. And i i think that's a little bit extravagant all right. I'm going to tease our next subject. By closing this conversation with an exchange between governor baker and nbc tens alison king this week when she was asking him about his proposal and a potential run for a third term tax revenue because of the people in massachusetts came over expectations. I think we should give some indication. You're running for third term. I view this as a as a policy that i think should be easy to adopt k. Didn't answer the question. We'll pick that up the break. Marie francis rivera charlie chippy. Oh stay tuned when we come back. We'll talk about the governor's race listeners. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. I'm tc on a daring and this is radio. Boston's week in review still with us. Marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center and a new analyst to weaken review and charlie chipiona senior fellow at the pioneer institute and irregular for us. And you so we are gonna talk about the governor's race and it may be early but it is interesting already. Are you watching. Are you interested. And if not what would make you interested. What do you need to know to find this fascinating as we want. Do one eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to join the conversation. Charlie are you paying attention. I mean we had to make you pay attention today. But in general are you paying attention i am. I think this is fascinating. I'm not a. I'm not a good. I'm probably not a good person to poll on this because when it comes to politics i'm always paying attention. I'm an addict But i know so. Yeah i certainly am. I you know i think that considering how early it is This is this is certainly shaping up to be very interesting rich so and it got a little more interesting. This week mary francis with the entrance of state senator sonya chain diaz Three progressives already in the mix with her addition. What do you make of her candidacy. I'm also excited. This is a. I think it's great. So senator has done amazing things in the legislature. She has helped to birth. The student opportunity act of that's going to be investing one point five billion dollars into schools. So she has the track record listeners. Do you have a candidate. Do you wanna see people who haven't entered enter. Maybe more healy attorney general. Or maybe you're waiting to see if governor. Charlie baker is going to run for an unprecedented third term. Who's your candidate one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk so we did some analysis yesterday. I wanna play a little sound for the two of you from the boston globe. Kimberly atkins store. She's a friend of the show talking about governors races in massachusetts yesterday. People in massachusetts like to elect a divided government in the state. I mean in my lifetime. There's only been two democratic governors in the state of massachusetts so being the most progressive democrat isn't necessarily gonna win you the primary let alone when you the final seat so we'll have to see who else jumps in. I'm keeping my eye on really To see if more healy jumps in which would really shake up the race so charlie. It is striking to think that in her lifetime. There have been two governors democratic asian. Say i i. I thought was okay. She's way too young. I really got it. Might be the truly. I started doing the math in my head and i was horrible. Anyway my degrasse go ahead. No so i appreciate the humor. And i do wonder though i mean we are such a liberal state and we do love us some republican governors. Do you think that you know past is prelude here. I don't know. I really don't know i would say there are two things that give me pause about that one thing. Is i think that you know one. One sort of obstacle for the governor. That people don't talk about very much is that he's dealing with his own party You know in his own party a group that has gone stark raving mad before is okay and i think they have the potential to create real problems for him. I wonder i don't know. I have no inside information. I wonder what is appetite to deal with. That is the only thing. I would say that You know makes makes me wonder i don. I don't know the answer. Is that i feel like in my you know many decades as just realized listening to kimberly Following this stuff I have never seen the political climate here move so far left so quickly as what we're seeing right now and now that could either obviously be harmful for him as more of a centrist centrist or It could be that you know the democrats You know sort of nominated whoever's the most liberal in that opens up a big lane for him very read for me. I'd say it's too early to really fit for me anyway to to know how i think that's going to play out listeners. Can republicans candidates still win the governorship in massachusetts one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. I wanna stay on the question of charlie baker for a minute murray francis and i'm gonna play you some more sound. I got a kick out of this yesterday mostly for the hesitation at first but then also for the answers when i asked both kimberly at can store of the boston globe and anthony brooks wbrc senior political reporter whether each of them thinks baker is going to run for a third term. Kimberly i'll go out on a limb. I think he's going to run. But i don't say that. With any kind of insider knowledge. I just have a gut feeling that. I can't imagine what else charlie baker would do. Frankly i would that. I mean in the trump a fide gop world. There aren't a lot of places for the charlie baker's to go if they wanna stay in politics and it seems that the best job he could possibly run for. Is the one that he already has some predictions there. Mary francis have the point that that charlie chip oh also just made which is this is a state. Gop that doesn't like their own governor. Who is one of the most popular governors in the country but who clearly do not feel. It seems that he stands for them anymore. So you i apologize mostly question but can he run as a republican again in the commonwealth. There's a lot to respond to here number one. Charlie baker could get a job in the private sector. So i mean. I think that there are possibilities for governor baker outside of his governorship and i think we're in a different entirely different context of having this campaign in this election where were coming off of an understanding of racial reckoning. Were coming off of kobe. Our state is extremely unequal. You know we're seeing parts of our state in really suffering so it you know the the label progressive to me doesn't feel like the right leibel or for some folks that are offering big solutions to the big problems that we have here in the state and one thing that i've observed with governor baker is that he hasn't proposed bake fresh bold solutions and people are really aching for those. So that's why we're paying so much attention to you. Know abandoning or senator. Sonia chain diaz or daniel. Allen is because they're coming out with this fresh bold voice not necessarily don't have to be couched as progressive. It's just fresh and bold. There are new ideas to address these big challenges that we have so mary. Frances i hear you charlie. I'm going to turn to you. Because also listening to murray francis it seems those were the criticisms of governor baker in the last race as well that he was a mechanic not a visionary and that the commonwealth needed a visionary. Is there something different at stake. This time. I don't know that there's well that's a hard one to say what i would say is certainly he is a more of a mechanic than a visionary that is You know that that is certainly true. I think you know when it comes to generes it depends on what you think of the vision a yes. I mean that's really that's really what it's all about you know. Look i have my own views. I mean a lot of people. Think you know would call deval. Patrick visionary. I think that he probably was a visionary I was tearing my hair out over his mission. You know everybody's got a different view. That's why we live in a democracy. So so i think the question. You're right i mean. I don't think there's really any need. I mean it's it's it's usual version of short-term like when when we were talking about politics here to put labels on it but i think the ultimate decision is are the visions that they're selling One set the voters massachusetts are gonna want to buy. And i don't think we really know the answer to that yet we will. That's why we have elections okay so for the remainder of our time. I want focus on an issue that is playing out very locally but with huge national implications. And that's guns and towns in the commonwealth. Newton is the current center of the gun debate. They have new zoning which prevents a gun shop that wanted to open your the heart of one of their villages and it relegates any future shop proposals to a handful of remote locations in the city but there are some gun control advocates. Who want an all out ban on gun sellers instead now. The zoning committee recommends against it after hearing earlier this week and the city says that a band would quote would not withstand unquote. A legal challenge. Concerns are that such a challenge could actually create case law that might limit communities all around the country and their ability to restrict gun sellers so This idea of a ban goes to a vote of the whole newton city council on july twelfth. I wanna talk about that listeners. Do you have a position on gun sellers in your community. Should there be outright bans. Is it worth if you are against guns. Is it worth banning gun sellers if it could open up supreme court challenges and is it appropriate to try to ban gun sellers in a country that has the second amendment one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. Murray francis reactions to what's playing out newton. yes This is sticky. I meet what i want personally. A gun shop in my community. No and i hear what you're outlining. The tension of you know are we poking the the beast basically and you know at the end of the day. It's up to new residents in the city council. What they decide to do. And it's it's not just about the gun shop. It's about the conditions that create violence and communities and gun violence in communities so we oftentimes focus on this acute part of the conversation but it's also hurry investing in mental health services. What's the larger conversation that we also need to be having But yes sticky twenty. Let you jump in there. Yeah i would. I would. Personally i would say i have absolutely no problem with the community that chooses to Put a ban on gun shops within their borders. I have no problem with that at all. but i have to say you know as a as a political observer i you know i just don't get why when you have you know a sort of a almost a de facto ban now and you look at the makeup of this supreme court s mary. Francis said re francis said you know why you would poke this particular bear To to to to for for not much else other than to kind of make a statement I don't understand i. It just seems to me that You know under the this new zoning they can pretty much. Keep gun shops out You know it's You know this just in this supreme court's pretty far to the right. So i i and there's been there's been concerned about that. Even the giffords law center which is an foundation run by gabby giffords sent a letter to the city council urging them not to adopt the ban given the posture the current court. And i want to get to this defacto ban idea with a little bit of sound. So i'm gonna play two pieces sound. Here's laura tova him. A local gun control advocating co founder of the newton guns prevention speaking to us on radio boston earlier this week we have a very strong zoning ordinance in place that will accomplish our goals the ordinance is not just buffer zones there are many protections in the sense that make newton very inhospitable to gun stores and enacting a ban right now is just simply reckless so arguably the de facto this already a band through zoning but then here's newton city councillor emily norton about the lawsuit possibility also speaking with us this weekend radio boston. It's not that i'm thrilled at the idea of litigation. But i don't think we've protected ourselves now so if someone wants to sue us they can sue us. This is america. You can sue someone if you want. I don't really think we're at any more of a ban versus zoning limitation. That looks like a ban so marie francis the argument there and let me say that Emily norton has also argued. If you have a principal you move towards that principle. That's the argument. You know if if you really don't want gun shops if you want them banned than ban them and deal with it from a legal standpoint so so one defacto ban through regulation someone else saying stand up for what you believe in. We're going to get sued anyway. Is there any way. This doesn't wind up litigated up. The food chain murray francis. I just wanna give a disclaimer. I'm not an attorney. But you know i under i understand that. There is a lot of fear in communities. There have been increases of mass shootings police brutality so on and so forth. But you know if there's guidance especially you're saying from the giffords law center to say you know there are regulations in place to really limit The ability for shop to be in a community. Let's say you know. I would say you know. It's up to the residents to really decide what they wanna do. But this policy you. Sometimes you have to make the choice that makes the most sense at the time so listeners wanna talk about. This phones are ringing. I'm gonna take a bunch so let's go to the phones. We've got donna in dorchester. Donna go ahead. I wouldn't say that. I'm a dorchester resident and in boston They don't really have gun shop. And if if you a lot of black people hispanics are now getting More gun licences. More than ever. And i that's important to know and we need to make it accessible for. Everyone and having gunshots allows people to do it safely. They're not registering their firearm. Somewhere else and then bringing them into the city. At least this way people know where they are who has And and Accessible to everyone and we and people need to be able to protect themselves. And i think that's the point of the second amendment and this is a way that people aren't buying them from illegally in boston and this and or other cities close to bus and i think having an accessible having on it is more sensible and and equitable taking it back from you there donna and before i go to the next call data in two thousand twenty did play out. Donna's point that we were seeing increased gun sales to people of color in the united states. We actually talked about that on air at one point last year. All right adam in marblehead. Adam go ahead. Hi if we agree that that access to guns is a dangerous public health issue that we can treat legislating the same way that we did. Unfortunately abortion is being treated abortions are right and people put restrictions on abortion in different states. So there's nothing different about us saying okay. Fine it's legal to purchase a firearm that these are the rules and restrictions that are required to access it. And so i thanks for that for you. Know city Taking point of view and make more typical that they choose. Thanks for that. Call adam and we will give the last word on this too nancy in copley square. Go ahead nancy. hello. I agree with donna. I think that working class decent citizens who pay taxes and what good need to have more access to guns People of color working class people of all colors is because the criminals. And the right wing. They have access to guns but we also need access as well. Thank you well nancy. Thanks for that perspective. So lots of different perspectives there. Murray francis and charlie and i suspect this is something. We're going to talk about more after the vote in july. Does either of you have a one sort of strong last word. You want on this before we moved to. Hobbs all i would say is i i. I'm no expert on this. But i have a lot of trouble seeing how you know. Having more gun shops leads to good things and marie francis anything less from you i agree i agree all right so with that i think it is time for hubs because it's summer we are headed into the weekend and i love those little stories that caught her attention this week. It's always nice to leave room for them at charlie. I'll have you go first. You gotta hubbub for us. Do mine was sort of unusual. Mine is is is very personal. I have to say that. I had a. I was making one of my many trips to trader. Joe's the other day and i hadn't encountered that i just can't get out of my mind a dignified. An elderly woman commented on the t. shirt and which just struck up a conversation and she started telling me about these amazing adventures. She had been through Talked about going to all three of the races. That are part of the triple crown in a single year Techy derby that free kness belmont. Just you know she if she talked about getting offend to go with her. She's telling me stories and she's got. The army's is flashing of someone who's in their twenties or like my kids. Eighteen and twenty you know and just full of adventure and excitement and i was astonished when she told me that she was ninety. Eight years old and then. She told me that he was looking for someone because she wanted to go and do the trip go to the triple crown races one more time and i gotta tell ya i this encounter just really made me stop and think about how it live in the choices. I make how i spend my time. And it's utter head. So i just wanted to share. Now that's a great shout out to her and a and a great shout to the adventures of older adults. And what they what they bring a and the fact that we don't have to quit her experiences at any point. I wanna slide sideways at the very last minute marie francis. That's right marie francis. You've got a hubbub. I think is about a young person. Yes that's great. I was gonna say the other end of the spectrum so mine. Exactly mine is a brian. Weeden just was elected as chairman of the mashpee noack tribal council and he's the youngest person ever serve. He's twenty eight years old. He has been really interested since he was very very young in serving as a leader in his community and again you finally is able to do at their age restrictions so he created a youth council before he could actually serve on The the tribal council and it's beautiful The watson wag nation it's one of the three surviving tribes of the weapon commission and this is beautiful to see black indigenous leaders tastic and it's great to learn about another leader in our community is what exactly all right so i actually gonna do. My hubbub a big hubbub after the booth. Thought you were going to get the whole week without having to deal with me there is. My vets kris siddiq from radio. Boston so much to talk about in sports so we are going to do that with credits with chris. Hey there chris. After the break. In the meantime marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center and charlie chippy. Oh a senior fellow at the pioneer institute and principle of chippy strategies. Thanks for review in the week with us. Thank you so much. This is great. Yeah great great to initiate marie-france francis loved it. It was wondering to have you all right. We'll be back with check the score after the break folks. This is radio boston.

boston governor baker legislature murray francis Murray francis Marie francis rivera kim genie charlie chippy charlie massachusetts budget and polic pioneer institute charlie baker marie francis Mary francis Senator eric lesser Acting maher janey lydia edwards massachusetts
Co-Branding  BB052

Branding Brews Podcast

48:02 min | 1 year ago

Co-Branding BB052

"What's up, everybody welcome back to another episode of Branding Bruce I. Am your host Brian Weeden. Owner of the craft brew creative, which is a branding and design studio focused on the craft beer industry. It's really great to be back again and fun of the microphone. It's been a little while and this episode. was actually recorded just shortly after the lockdown of the whole coronavirus virus situation. And allies change since then. but I'm really excited about this episode. I think you'll be ready, really beneficial. the topic is co, branding. And kind of collaborations, and how those can benefit your brie and benef- benefit. Really both brands that are collaborating together I think a lot of collaborations happened between breeze, but in this particular episode I wanted to look at those collaborations with reaching out to other. other brands of other kind of like celebrities or other kind of you know well known personas impersonal personal brands. and we'll get into that and let you know what's going on that. but I also wanted to bring you know some kind of awareness and some information out. I'm sure everybody was probably by now has heard of the altogether collaboration beer effort that was brought together by other half bring. That was really great initiative think that got spread out pretty far and wide, and it's great to have initiatives like that four industry into. To feel a part of something, but also raise awareness, and also raise some funds to for like nonprofits, and so one of the ones that you, maybe you've probably heard by now is called. Black is beautiful. and this one's of this one's really cool coming out right now. you know in in in effort in in light of everything that's going on with the BLM movement right now. and everything that's going on, so yeah. Black is beautiful is a collaborative effort to raise awareness for the injustices. People of Color face daily and raise funds for police, brutality, reform and legal defenses for those who have been wronged. You can download the recipe you can get the label artwork and the graphics at Black is beautiful dot beer. they I think they also has some other Collaborating partners are offering discounts and special. You know deals and stuff for like ingredients and labels and packaging whatever so yeah again, check at that out at black is beautiful dot beer. next up for you of guts. I'm going to be participating in the craft social media. kind of Workshop Day which is presented by our friends from Rad Craft Emily Hutto has been on the show a while back, and she runs Rad craft, which is a a great kind of marketing and PR agency and yeah. The annual Craft Social Media Workshop is for Craft Brewery Marketing professionals, and it's returning again this year but of course this year's going to be in the virtual format. You can meet bear. centric social influencers can get quick tips for managing your social media on the go and much more. there's GonNa be some more keynote. Speakers being announced But I will be one of those. I'll be presenting during the workshop and I'll be presenting ideas on ways that you can rock your social media, images and profiles with better design and so I'd love for you to join that is going to be on Friday June twenty sixth. And that will be from. Eleven am to one PM mountain time so again. That's GONNA be on Friday. June twenty, six, th from eleven to one mountain time. space is limited. It's truly limited I know some people just say that for marketing reasons to get you to jump in, but spaces actually limited so. I. Do have a special offer. If you use the Code Ryan Friends, that's one word Ryan friends and on the scrap social media website. You could get five dollars off. And to do that. You can to register head on over to Rad craft beer dot com slash craft social media that was read craft beer dot com slash craft social media. yeah. I love to see you. There as I mentioned. I'M GONNA be talking about social media and how to design better profiles how to design better social media images Yeah kind of up your game in that in that sense. So. Let's get back onto the topic today's episode as I mentioned. The idea is going to be kind of around co branding how you can collaborate with other brands and other personalities and. Celebrities to. Raise awareness and increase your marketing. Increase your branding. Increase your reach I. think that's huge You know the craft beer industry. In. A number of ways kind of plateauing, I think people are looking for ways to reach out to. To reach new audiences and I think some of these The people today have great insights on that. They've both done that. so I am joined by Jordan Hof art who is a professional skater and he's also the CO founder of black plague brewing. he did a black plague brig did a collaboration with Tony Hawk Professional Skater. so yeah, the kind of meeting of the bring world and the professional skating and skating world you know kind of tying those two cultures together and reaching out to the different audiences We'll hear from him. And, make sure you stay team for the second half because we're joined by fish scales, fish scales was an original member of the hip hop group nappy roots, and he's also the CO founder of Atlanta key brewing. and so yeah, you know. nappy roots coming from that he's got this kind of hip hop, background, and the AD. They've had great success right, and now he is really reaching into the world of craft beer, getting his name out there getting Allen Hooky out. They're bringing those worlds together. In a great way and helping everybody. Promote their brands and getting more people out to drink more beer, so let's just jump in and yeah, take lessons, interview and hope everyone's well and see you next. Jordan Hoffman is a professional skateboarder who has played a major role in the skateboard industry for over ten years. He has competed in one televised championships all over the world working with major media networks such as Fox sports, one and NBC sports. He's developed many contacts in sourcing manufacturing sales distribution, which has given him the opportunity to bring so many people together to build black plague. Jordan's extensive experience in brand management and vendor engagement with several his major sponsors that includes Stereo skateboards, bones, wheels, and surplus distribution gives them the capability to oversee brand, management and collaborations, marketing, and promotions as well as handling of all brewing ops in supply chain management for black plague brewing so Jordan. Did thank you so much for joining today? Man Really appreciate it. Yeah, no, no worries. I, never I never realized like the play on words how how hard that was to say, but like a rich, but like black plague brewing like everyone. Kinda fobel's on that one. Uh hand, maybe not the best call. April's out pretty good. It's not bad. It's not bad yes. Absolutely, we'll. We're on the middle trying times right now, but appreciate taking a minute to join. Me Yeah totally so this into this right so you have a deep background in professional skating in in what ways has that like? Culture carried over to black plague brewing. was pretty. It's pretty. It's way more like relevant than maybe even we initially like thought Black plague the ethos, and what we stand for is always kind of like standing out from the crowd like having occurs. Follow your true passion like Despite you know the naysayers people that say you can't do, you can't become anything and it's like we're kind of proof in the pudding. Because I don't have like an extensive. Bring background and you know even with skateboarding. It was self taught south learn. It's not something you go to school for and so. Is kind of created that mentality that wilders away. That's kind of what black plague. All it is is like find a way. Find find a way or make one that's like the earth slogan right so we stand by that we live by that I, think most like skateboard culture just because traditionally when back from the eighties nineties like you know. It wasn't always awesome, wasn't it was cool it was like. Like, you're kind of an outcast in, but you people when they saw you doing. It is because they knew you love to do it. You know it was a cool thing to do. Everyone else is doing it and I think the authenticity that kind of brought it to the forefront of of of being cool. It was like anything. Super Authentic I, think plant the seed in kind of transcends to the masses. yacht that was that stem students skateboarding, and it stems true in craft beer as you know it's, it's a battle and craft beer I don't think a lot of people understand like all the dynamics and and facets that go along with producing twelve ounce can of beer and keg of beer. They think like Oh, cool, you just stand around in like drink beer with you and. Wish that is. Like I could tell you honestly I visited more. My friends in visited boroughs before we opened one, and then ever since we open I don't have time I go home. That's all I can do. Take care of my kids so I definitely a grind. It's definitely like you said there's there's so many facets, and if so many regulations and laws and regulating governing bodies that you interact with the consistently and all the different things you have to file on a daily weekly monthly basis so it's a grind. It's a grind for sure, but that's that skateboarding. It's grind you like. Old See people don't see the ninety nine point nine percent of tries where you're eating shit, and you're not landing the trick and getting frustrated banged up. Smack your knee and. God forbid knock yourself out whatever they just see the effortless, seemingly effortless. Know rollaway anders like Oh. That's so cool Get to go skiing with your. Like that it's it's hectic. It's all or nothing so. Of went on a tangent there, but that's kind of the intertwining of the two worlds and. The more dot, the more I dove into the craft beer industry, especially locally, the more that same kind of mentality exists as in skateboarding core skateboarding. It's There's the floor. Is Right. There like They're like your core skateboarding market, and it's like Everything Kinda transcends to the public from there. That's like the nucleus and. You have for the passion they do it for. You know to keep it at such a high level in continuously creating on the new. New Beer styles You know a lot of the traditionalist perfecting those traditional beer styles, and just getting their shit and check, and they all Kinda like stick together to create a better culture a better product, so it's Kinda Kinda the same thing with skating. It's like your course skateboarder. You're just kind of in competition with yourself in everyone else's. Commodities there and you just kind of trying to make the best version of yourself via. The trixie do so. I don't know if that answered anything. Toilet did yeah, the background similarities are great. You know like kind of a yeah. Back in the days like skaters weren't necessarily the cool kids know, or they were seen as like this little offset of this different culture and Berlin kind of started that way, and now it's kind of a cool kid on the block you know so. I mean in in regards to skate culture. are those folks like Dr Those folks coming to hanging out your like. Do you feel like there's a good alignment between craft beer and like the skate culture like has been a good fit like overall. I'd say. I'd say it's the awareness is getting more. is getting out there. More in the appreciation is getting out there more like when we when we first started like for sure I thought like. Yeah, it's just. GonNa be full escape borders, and that's GonNa. Be Our demographic I was like free, much dead wrong, but that's also primarily because of our location, right? It's like you really only going to bring in the five mile radius of your brewery into the taproom that we see so we have were backed in between two really awesome communities that have been super supportive, but is primarily like young families. They come in here in their mid to late thirties early forties. That's that's kind of who we see in here but that trip to that, and are they skateboarders yet? Lot of some groups, keyboarding and stuff so there's that aspect of it, but it transcends I. Think it's more of. The culture, then necessarily big scape orders, but the culture surrounding skateboarding is what everyone can kinda resonate lift. Roving another TC room in North Park, so you know it's different demographic down there. souls hopefully resonate with some more skateboard culture down there, but yeah, we tried to our best with to educate the the guy like Tony and whatnot like on you know, take for them to be able to feel feel more like involved with the day to day in take pride in the product and kind of Shit of speak when people approach them all the time. Now Scott it so. Yeah well, that's a great segue right so for this interview discussing Tony hops birdhouse Ip which was. Boom there it is a god. That's Dope Dan so dumb. Cool so yes, this was a collaboration with Professional Skater Tony Hawk. Them. How did you create? How did you approach creating like co branded beer? Yes, it's. so Tony's obviously a heart of black plague. He's one of our Saith not so silent partners 'cause he waves the played pretty hard, but so he writes for bones wheels. I ride for bones, wheels on of known Tony for probably about fifteen years and so I had I basically made To get him involved. Initially, we had our proposal and our deck and everything so I link did a foliage intimate. Tatton just was really back in. or we are all about any loved. The outer skateboarders were involved and looked at it was local, and then obviously we have the plague doctor mask which he actually had a birdhouse skateboard. That was the plague Doctor On him being the Birdman it just kind of all the pieces Kinda lined up, so we were talking Early around this time last year. And we're thinking the really cool to do like ration- outside of just the direct beer market, and you know, start utilizing some of the guys that are involved the brands and obviously Tony is the biggest name. is as far as the action sports and skateboarding world so We're just kind of playing around with ideas and You know Tony Hawkes. Just Kinda came out of the I. Just learned it out one day and I was like. If it's too good. We gotta do something like we got to see if he'd be down. You know so We didn't just rush to be like this idea Tony when he you know. It was like Kinda thought out in. Jared like yourself is super talented graphic designer. That's my partner. So, he started getting. He does all her can't. His eyes labels every? Kind of Whiz so he on his computer on photo, illustrators mocking up all these cans, and and We kind of put a proposal together, and we just had. We had a pitch dialed in basically like. Hey, here's what we want to do. Tony hops IPA hops. You gotta do an Ip a year how you You know Here's what we want to. Here's what we want to brew We want you to be involved in the brewing process. We want to film you being involved process. Just so it's not like. Hey, let's slap slacker name on it and in just just use you marketing weed related. He involves enough to see on the website. I'm I can send you a link to. We actually filmed out like the whole bring day and him sniffing and picking out all help figure hops for. For, the recipe and yeah, how to how to kind of dive in and brew the batch, the first two initial batches with our head brewer so That was pretty cool, so Yeah, the end of the day. It wasn't that hard to get him onboard. He was pretty down for the idea and I think I mean who Kinda doesn't. Want their name on a beer I guess. Yeah. Let's I. Mean that thing to consider the right is? That person's particular if it wasn't Tony Hawk or you know like it's birdhouse. His brand is well. You know but if you're like approaching. A different brand or a different celebrity of some sort that the idea of putting your name on a beer, that's something to consider right one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, so you put together like a little pitch tech with a mocked up can seeing yeah, we did like the full can mockup. We did obviously you know we. We cut him a little. Little royalty on the sales I mean. We're using his likeness reusing his hand. Oh, there's gotta be something in it for on that side of the fence as well so we kinda came to an agreement on on a royalty and then and then we brought in. We wanted to use his actual skateboard company. So it's it's. Tony hops birdhouse. Ip. just to. Kinda cements the whole skateboarding connection as well so. yeah, so we basically went and we. We pitched it to him and his team, and just the hardest part, which actually wasn't that hard was just working out the contracts with any conflicting likeness of his name, just because he has a lot of contracts out there that love for his name so I did be careful with will. We could do what we could do. And once we kind of figured that out we set up a launch date for last summer and that's when we. Came in. We filmed all the videos of him. Bruin and and Kinda just launch full force in made like us. small run of skateboards that he get ride, and we did a limited sale on those, and then did a full Clothing capsule as well as like shirts. The boards We did some hoodies. And then obviously can be in on draft as well and It was a big hit. It jumped to number one within the first five weeks of our of releasing it so. I wanted fears awesome, but I think the name had something to do. Yeah. THOSE DUMB! That's dope, though I mean the idea like beyond just the beer, the potential in co branding or cloud like this is like the merchandise you like have like all that stuff and the great thing I love about collaborating like this that you're tapping into both brands like audiences, so you're reached. You know can get to be a lot more. so were there any surprising results because of this collaboration that maybe you weren't expecting. The Canada's like surprised you. I mean I don't know if they were surprising. I mean I. Don't you always hope that something's GonNa hit We've been pretty good about pivoting. If you know, brands, don't hit like our intentions, but this one. We were surprised that it hit as well as we had hoped that was. That was the biggest thing it. It opened up a lot of doors. Doors for us. especially the off premise accounts like The chain Stores Obviously just just pee him being a household name, and like you know seeing a product. The most comparable one is the Stone Cold Steve Austin like I i. need to be like a huge craft beer fan, but you could be a huge stoke. WHO's not as don't call off. To go and see a six pack of beer and pick it up. You're going to try once you know regardless in. Hopefully, it's good I. Actually haven't had yet, but so that that in that sense it definitely opened up of unity for us, because the branding to being able to get the off premise is kind of it in more of the keg sales and people. You know this is the same thing they see. They see the Birdman on the menu board. NASC- Tony Hawkes. They go. Hi, that's that's funny whether you're upon guy or not, but as just like you said it was just it. All kind of just came together and people are willing to try just on the. This association alone so. Yeah! so if a Burrito to were to approach, a collaboration beer like this with like say another celebrity or another well known brand What advice would you have form I wouldn't rush it and I. Get your PS and QS sorted like I'd get your pitch deck. you get your initial contract? You gotTA understand. Is this like a one off or you going to do like a you know a one year deal to your deal. Like how how long is this You know How much resources time are you investing into this thing and then have different scenarios like have all your forecast. Kinda done like You know we use Ekos which is like a production manager software, but it's really good at forecasting based off historic, also, if you think the brand's GonNa hit, you can kind of Shimmy out like X. Percents GonNa. Be on premise. Going to be off premise now, what's the royalty breakdown on now? Offering on premise sale royalties, wells cancels wills your tasting room, because each one of those has a direct effect on your revenue and your dogs and you gotTa. Make sure that you know what you're getting into ahead of time before he. Sounds good and you sign up with your all excited and then you're losing money. because. He just There was no sustainability, so that was a huge thing that we needed to sorted prior to jump in both the. trademarking dream moorings going to be a big one Just you know there's lots sharks out there a of you know. Everything's trademark is crazy. find a name Known touching black plague. Thank God. But. Now was pretty easy to get, but. You've got to protect yourself because at the end of the day business business and when it comes down to people are going to look out for their businesses, so make sure you have all the legal stuff kind of solidified prior to launching the products, and then just kind of come to agreement like half before you do a real pitch Yeah have have concepts of the artwork that you WANNA use have concepts of the name in you want to capsule, and what? What are all the fastest? In merchandise. Are you going to do have that all dial, the more you can have completely dialed in. Before you start the clear paths GonNa be in the trajectory Passo that would be. There's a lot more I'm sure, but that would be off top of my head. Some of the stuff you WANNA. Get dial and I would basically just say the last thing I was gonNA. Say don't get discouraged when people say no. Get forever. Yes, YOU'RE GONNA. Get a thousand knows you know so you just got gotta got a pick up and keep reaching out for sure Nice. We'll Jordan appreciate your time Yeah, you've got to read you. Know got berea brand going on really cool stuff and this one hit home with me as I've discussed with your earlier, because the coming from a background of a lot of skating and stuff and it's cool to see two worlds collide and it's a great collaboration, so I appreciate you coming on and get some insights. Anyone out there. That might be looking to do a similar thing Where can folks find you? They want to find out more about black play or about yourself. Because you've got you've got. History is being professional skaters well. So, where would you point people to find you? I mean right now is social media. Is King specially will? Everyone's quarantined dry so? You can check our. IGGY handles like black plague brewing and then we have black plague oceanside, which is our aside tasting room, and then we're about to launch black plague north part, which down in San Diego, so those are the main handles, and then our facebook under the same handle, and then me personally just ask, Jordan, Hoffer but yeah, and then We're distributed in state of California Karl, Strauss and pyro distribution, and then we just went out to Arizona through quayle can fly, so earns data, Arizona, and then were trickling out to Mexico as well so for physical product. Those are the three three territories. You can find us. WHAT JORDAN! Appreciate it brother. All Right? Some joined by fish scales, who is the original member of nappy roots? What up? He's the only member not from Kentucky and HE'S A. He's a Georgia native. Fish Scales introduced nappy roots to the beer game, and he's also the CO founder of Atlanta key brewing. So what's up, man? For Joining Me Grow absolutely yeah. His right now I know right. Yeah, we're renting the middle of the holy coronavirus situation and you got tour stuff that got canceled rats here just trying to like hustle at home right now right right exactly. Actually. Doing little business each day, but really just trying to enjoy family man, enjoy home and I'll catch up with myself. You know absolutely. Yeah do it. Sweet well, let's jump into this. I think you've got a great perspective because you are kind of you're bringing your own brand into the beer world. So. Someone who is an artist and a performer like what draws you to to beer like what brought you into the whole egg beer culture? Mega long story short like we as nappy roots. We came together. I'll beer beer. We part in free style and that was kind of a big part of. I will group early mid nineties so i. can't say I totally introduce napper's to beer, but I introduced into the big game. The craft beer game and what kind of attracted me to it was. The varieties different different brands, the different styles of beers that you could go out and get short story. There was a stall under the place where I lived. like Tan loved years ago. and. I will go downstairs now. Just grab a beer in a random beer. One day I've seen a new bear. I think it was assessing session beers yet small bottles. and My grant one just to try it, and as I was walking out, the owners said. If you see anything else, you'd like. Let me know how order. In, the hit me like order. Beard into. Miller lite and disseminate as more beer, so I constantly start looking for beer different bids to try and nowadays I rarely drink beer twice. Man and I love that about it, yeah! Right so How are you then bringing like your beer? Collaborations to the culture and audience of say like nappy roots. Is. Because I think the craft beer audience is very similar to the Bruce Audience Unite from the age group to the lifestyle. It office into what we do. You know I was shows full of people. Join Beer, you know. Of course there's a lot of times it's cheaper more traditional beer, but here we are on stage, telling people that were making beer in, and it excites them. People really want to try and experienced Atlanta key experience and people like Santa's growth as artists going from rappers to now invest in a whole different business. there. Cools so say so, say for instance you. You have a collaboration. You came out your own beer. How would you then like promote that and bring that? Bring that culture from the Mary, the culture of nappy roots with like the beer like do you throw like parties like with the breweries to promote this release? Out The release like how would you go about promoting it to your to your audience? It's a couple of ways we do it. We try to make sure we have so in that sound like that's kind of how it happens anyway. nappy roots tour over one hundred days a year. so soon as we get into a town like we talked about earlier. Arriving town, we find the brewery because it kind of gives us the vibe you know the pulse of the city, and it also helps us. Promote I sold at night. So as we do that, not times out of ten we meet. The brew introduces us to the owner. And we have a few drinks. We laugh and joke and him before you know it. We've agreed to do a beer. and. So we do that beer plan that beer yet we come back. Do any debt promote another, so you know, get that very involved in the south, so it's a win. Win For us for the promoter. As well as the brew on Brewery, we bring a lot of attention to it like for example in Whitefish Montana last soda. We did a solo. Bonds Brew Banzai brewing out the White. And during the show, we may sort of promote an order keg of beer like we let them know. We don't want any drinks, but I would drink yeah. That's pretty cool. Because the promoter has to provide a keg of beer and the host, so we all stays, telling people don't drink anything but. People up pretty responsive to and is just a win. Win Is Fun. Everybody you know creates more promotion and makes odd brand even better especially when the beer's really good right, which has been so far. So people. That you've in this journey of your of like. You know coming from the hip hop culture into the beer culture like. Have you found that you've been able to introduce this? Craft styles to audiences and the people that drink craft like have you had people come up to you and be like Oh. Man Has Beers. Like is so dope I. Haven't tried anything like this before kind of a situation. All the time now and I know a lot of people say that facebook we get a lot of good response on our beers, and one of my honest thing to do is to take one of my cousins from from my small town Milledgeville Georgia, and take him to trust and different beers. I ain't people. Tell me not don't like beer, and that to me is like a challenge. Okay, he's got to find a beer. You just hadn't found beer. That's because there's so many different kind, but I love introduced people to different beers and when we make beer. And with other drugs, we we keep in mind that I go is to introduce a lot of new people so. We try to extreme without flavors. We try to make flavors that people that that will be good for introducing people to like this Kentucky. Mark is that we just made less beer as chocolate milk stout. And a lot of people don't even know. On familiar with stoute's appeared in a Lotta people they not familiar with that style of beer, so to give them does because it's sweet got. lactose has got chocolate, so it's hard, not like yeah, would it belongs people? Mind is like. I didn't even know to taste like this own. So that's the part pardon. That's something we keep in mind while we make him beers. That's. A big great like example of the beer industry. kind of like starting to plateau a bit like miniature, still a lot of people that haven't had craft beer so i. think there's a great. Effort to try to diversify audiences and people like you. that's great now. You're out there like bring your crafts. being rap and hip hop also with beer like bring us crafts out to the people. That's Great Oh is. Are Great position like on crab. Vir has kind of plateaued on. The audiences needed thirty white male. Yeah, you know it's time for other other people in and I feel like we've been doing this for like four years now. Just go onto breweries learning more about how to make beer software like we're putting ourselves in the perfect position for this moment when the big companies like okay, we need another customer we need another audience and I feel like nappy roots. We put ourselves in position to be like. Hey, we're here. We can take. We can take you through this new audience to this hill pop audience to his. Black professional audience who want something new they won't. They appreciate flavors. They appreciate the The the bed version of anything you know whether it's beer weather's food. They want the better version of and we try to put ourselves in position to be the people who can to be Brits Yeah from. From Lou them to. New absolutely. Well less. His great wanted to help make. To. Breeze GonNa be listening to this seminar and just like trying to open up new ways that they can collaborate with other folks. I mean the common way to do. burris collaborating with other breweries to make beers between NAPA, but there's been some great examples of like what you're doing. Where Bruce are working with other artists or other brands and reaching out of that to Kinda, bring it to a new audience. So like the bree partners that you've worked with. What was like you youth? What is the biggest benefits to them from your collaborations that you've seen? Our goal is to make sure benefits don't like you know. Oh this won't work. Everybody. Don't benefit but I think they get. National exposure you know from our social media because. A lot of local breweries, their local like they're not able to travel like nappy roots can on, so we take that opportunity to take this bill that we made in Boise Idaho. I, have it in Atlanta. Georgia promoting. It's all friends right now, so it gives them more national exposure. It gives them a fun night. Is Some of the finest parties and and performances we have is when we team would burry and on. It's it's. It's a competitive market, so everybody's looking for a leg up. But I think nappy roots. That's exactly what we do. We give you some. Kind of make your hip it in will before we walked in. We talk about it. We take it around. Do Bear shares which a beer places that to probably get. An and we appreciate the process so on. We become friends with Bruce. It becomes a relationship that we hope to keep. Moving forward! It was just GonNa. Ask You then on the process side of things you know a bit? You know a good bit about big yourself and you bring your own it so. That is also going to be something that's unique in that We'll just maybe tell us a little bit. The process of when you connect with a brewery or with a brewery and you decide to collaborate on a beer like Our. How does that process go for you I? Mean like. How do you? How do you like to kind of create something? That's GONNA fit like the Atlanta Turkey brewing kind of right feel you know. Well for League as skinny approach to ways, but for me. I like to look at where the brewery is. Because certain places do certain beers better than others. And I like this e vibe with the people. Some people don't like US lactose. Some people don't like of this whole hazy. Tran you know so I kind figured out. I like to see what each jury does best. And, so we go in, we catch up in. Basically it's totally fifty fifty on ideas like the brewers totally respect us. They are impressed by knowledge. We ask a lot of questions you know in Bruce, loved it. Loved when you ask questions, we love learning about making beer and we just five it out. We tell actually we tell them what we want to make. and. They tell us how to make it in what will and won't work for example. We did a beer with Scott Labron out of Atlanta and We just wanted to make a really sweet milkshake EA, and it ended up being a strawberry banana milkshake. What's is a lot is alive and thank God it came out. Good came out really good, but they told us the do's and don'ts. Within that you know on because they have more knowledge than we do, so they just tell us the do's and don'ts. What we can and what we shouldn't do, and we follow the lead one hundred percent. Make so up on the day we sell Buddha grind. We sweep the floors mopping floors. We ought. To do anything. They tell us to do just to be a part of the process. and it's educational for us because we get the watch. Them work these big things that we're not able to use it. You know we're not at that level yet, but we are basically in class, watching and learning and on. And last in a couple of Beers, we've done. We do a party for the Brew Day on the Broo- day. We'll do a party so three or four weeks. Everybody's excited to come back because everybody's showed up to the day. Party feels a part of the beer. You know they feel like they was a part of making this whole beer, and so it makes a good event yet. He tell me more about that like you said you mentioned the party. That sounds like an interesting way to kind of bring people into. All this really is about promoting right. You know it's all about beer about building a pipe. Yes, I'd love to hear more about that birthday party you mention. A, dope I think skinny came up with We did it with scofflaw. We by lots of pizza. we actually start brewing about ten. In about three o'clock win by people to come when we're about wrapping up, I might see US firms beard to the firmness and all. Is is dope man with partying? People are saying the beard a saying the process. They seen US dressed like we've been working so they're like okay this. This is the bid we sit around talk. We tell them what's ferment and three weeks later. Today cited they bring more people. Yeah, actually you know because we talked about it for three weeks, but as As a simple day, you know we always want to to be bigger than actual rue, but it's a good time for press the coming as questions and all that stuff, and that's what we also bring to breweries like we. We like to think we have a good press machine that we could push the button and bring a lot of attention to whatever. I love that I think that's such a great idea. That's awesome. We, not team. That's great hustling. Cool, so what advice might you have for like breweries that are looking to connect with artists like yourself or like other well known brands to create these kind of collaborations and kind of CO branded beers. My vice to the artists and brew. Naked genuine man. Like I, get it I. Get it some people doing beers on blonde deep yeezy k. got a beer, and I think somebody overheard him saying he hadn't had a beer in years. You know he's GonNa, be we let him get away with? Like I we we have to be down. Brooding like it has to be genuine. You notice is not just the money grabbed. This is a learning in creating something that we can. That can be around for years like we we want to create beers will be around for. Fallible. Music wanted to be around forever. So for the for the breweries. I definitely I'm sure they already noticed, but you gotTA. Pick an or you still picking artists that fits your Demo fister demographics. Don't you know some people don't eat nappy roots to to do a beer with you know that done? They who they serve beer, too, but Fortunately we have a good brand. People feel safe around we can. We can do go places and do business, but found artists that fits what you're doing and somebody who will take the opportunity series. Some artists is just on the names on dearest, and they probably never tweedle promoted promoted out, but every year we do is a huge deal for us. It's a big deal we do. Whatever's asked of to help. PROMOTE IT and sell it up out of beer sold first day. Upright relationships huge? Yes, I think that's a great point I mean. Relationship both y'all having the same goad trying to sell it like you said we're trying to sell beer and US right now. We're trying to learn how to sell beer. That's what I will collapse is all about learning from the breweries. How extra sale? So. You're in a unique situation. I think to maybe a lot of other. Collaboration beards are a lot of other like co branded beers. Once you go ahead and like give us a little run down by Atlanta. Donkey brewing, and and like what you're where you're coming from the what you're gaining out of these collaborations isn't a unique approach. Grew House right. Yeah, man did. I do my stop around, so it's not neat, but I started to Brew House Yeah we started. This essay up. Calm. And All Do like ten gallon batch on that but all. Of! ATLANTA. Okay, yeah Atlanta Chucky. I like to think of us as Gypsy Bruce Mann all Nanno. Gypsy Bruce Because we take. We take one company nappy roots. and. We put Atlanta on his back and go anywhere. nappy roots go, and wherever nappy roots go Atlanta sucky jumps off and find a brewery and starts doing business and all. Is Basically made this Atlanta sake kind of represents the relationship between Louisville in Atlanta. That was a huge thing for nappy roots. We wouldn't be here without taking those trips on Kentucky. Atlanta to try to make music so that whole area man going through Nashville Chattanooga. KNOXVILLE Brimingham these places. So important to us that we just wanted to. Pay Tribute to that whole that whole trail that we used to make from Louisville Tate Lanta so we named the borough. And I love name. Action S Atlantic. Routes! But home. Is just a a brewery idea right now and I like to think of as Gypsy Bruce Yeah just go around the country making best beer world. Yes, you're making it in a brand. You know it's it's I'd probably want to help. Keep nappy roots at sound brand, and then, but also have to be related to Atlanta Hukou Bruins so. That's cool I. Really dig how yeah you want to kind of keep those separate, but also you together to certain degree so I. think that's a great approach yet, and that's what we're dealing with. Now like we're doing beers with people, and sometimes they WANNA put nappy roots all over, and we have to balance that you know of course Napa rules were known in Atlanta, Chunky. But as a balance where we're trying to ship to give, and we have to tell them. No, WE WON'T ATLANTA. On there and story get out one day events. NAPPY RUSSA's behind Atlanta. Makes it even better to me once? He planned it out on. That's perfect. Yeah, so Where can people find you for more information on that? Be Rude, Sir more information on an Alan Turkey bring. you can go to Atlantic Dot Com. We have all information on. NAPPY RUBES DOT COM. I'm really excited. nappy roots anywhere where we try to make sure will I'll platforms and hit us up me. We all have personal sites a personal page just. and. We love to talk. We're not at the stage where whip flooded with so many DM's that we can't respond a solid. You hit US on instagram Atlanta Sake on instagram. And let's talk. That's the Hashtag I. Use a lot less top beer. What we talk, He dan a beer or a beer. Share whatever you know, we we we one hundred percent focused on beer right now. Parfait Ano- so you hit us up with Daphne lauded, talk their perfect while thanks for joining us for so much fiscal. Appreciate your time and really dig what you're doing. I can't. Thank. You may not want. I'd like. What you're doing to you! Bring the tents into something. That's really going on right now Craft Beers deftly. Trading relationship with hip hop artists I haven't seen it with other genres of music, but I'm sure common. But I think is good thing. It's good for both parties. May Hip hop need to know about cramp? Did he'll popping crap gear? LEASED MERGE IN I hope when.

Atlanta skateboarding Craft Beers TA Tony Hawk Gypsy Bruce Tony Kentucky Beer Georgia CO founder Jordan Tony Hawkes BLM Rad craft Craft Brewery Marketing facebook NBC plague
The Battle Of The Budgets

Radio Boston

48:26 min | Last month

The Battle Of The Budgets

"This is radio boston. i'm donna during. Hey it's friday so you knew that means. It's time for a week in review. And today we follow the money from the push over a newton to ban gun sales and gun shops to governor baker big ideas suspend sales taxes for all of august and september with tax revenues. Coming in at a much higher than expected rate. we think that two month reprieve from the sales tax. A six percent cut for all intents and purposes on all items it would typically be taxed at that rate is both affordable and the thing to do to support our people and our small businesses but many democratic leaders on beacon hill and elsewhere are saying. Hey let's use that money. In other ways. For example state. Senator eric lesser speaking to nbc. Ten boston right now to me. It feels more about scoring headlines that could do for fixing the t to give what that could do for hiring more teachers. The battle for money also takes center stage in the city of boston. Acting maher janey. My budget includes three point. Two billion dollar capital planned. It is the largest in our city's history. I believe that now is the time to invest in boston. But the city council which includes three people running against jaime panned. The mayor's plans here. City councilor lydia edwards dealing from the racial recognize a reckoning that we had dealing with this his stomach racism and concerns of the boston since department. If we look back on this moment that this budget meet that moment it does. It does not and we are going to start there in the money in the politics one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to join the conversation. Don't let your eyes cross or turn the dial just because we're talking about budget budgets. This is money. there are billions on the line. These fights effect when communities and individuals get services and relief. They need. where do you think that power should lie. Do you wanna see kim genie's budget go through or should the boston city council have more say that's just the start. The conversation one eight hundred four two three eight two five five joining us this week for the week in review charlie chippy. Oh a senior fellow. At the pioneer institute and principal of chippy oh strategies and a new we can review voice. Marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center. Charlie welcome back to you. Thanks good to be here. And marie francis welcome to we can review. Thank you for having me on excited all right. Let's do this and There's no better indication of a return to normal than when the news we talk about is politics and fights over money and you tour just the people to talk about it. So let's start most locally here in boston just around down for the listeners. To things happening. I the city council and acting mayor janey attempting change to the budgeting process to give the council more power over the money. A boston globe editorial board Their editorial board actually calling that out today as an end run around the city charter in a quote unquote grab for power. So now the council is also pushing back on acting near kim genie's current budget proposal. Three point seven six billion dollars. One voice andrea campbell is who's running against janey Says no so our counselors. Michelle wu and in usa siber- george also seemed to be pushing back. The vote is on the thirtieth of june. Not guaranteed lots going on there. Just general reactions charlie. Just my first reaction is that i would avoid any kind of large structural change in the way the state of the way. The city does budgeting In the midst of a budget debate in which a third. Or i'm sorry. A quarter of the of the council is running for mayor. That just doesn't seem to me to be a real good A real good recipe for certain long term Thoughtful reforms and race does hangover. All of this. Mary francis i understand. You're personally supporting councilor wu from air so we just wanna be clear about this. Is this fight between the council members in the acting mayor is it about politics is at about money. What do you think it's actually about so. This conversation is pretty long. Standing during the racial reckoning that happened was ongoing active conversation about who has power to make budget decisions to have input into budgets whether they be on the city level of their state level. So i think these conversations are really important to have in power should be shared and this is the people's money so More folks people in leadership should have access to to input into my decisions on on budgets so to the two of you in the news reporting about this tension around the budgets. Lots keeps coming up about complaints from the other city councillors about poor communication from the acting mayor. That doesn't sound like it's about money charlie. Well if that's what really what it is and i mean. I don't know that that may well be true. And if it is true they certainly They certainly have reason to be concerned about that. And they should Advocate make it clear that they expect more and better communication It's just. I guess i would say that. I really don't have the the insight into that enough to know whether that is kind of a political ploy or if that is actually the kicks so murray francis what are the fault lines in this budget where where are the tension substantively in this budget. Sure so it's a tension. That from what i understand has been happening for a while. Which is one it's around. You know the police budgets and that's something that not only the city council earns but they're responding to calls from their constituents that are worried about growing police budgets and that are also worried about under investments in housing and other social services. So charlie They acting mayor has said that her budget reduces police over time Several city council members have pushed back and said reform needs to go deeper than that. Interestingly the acting mayor actually voted against mayor walsh's budget last year. And you do wonder i mean. The power of the purse is always tied up in politics and it does always seem that this is one way to force others to change behavior so making big deal on this but at the same time is the really anything unusual going on marie-france assorted referenced already. This stuff happens. I would argue that it is probably just Ah level of the degree and the intensity certainly. I'm not naive enough to think that this stuff doesn't happen In every case now. I think the police piece is his very interesting. I've done some work around that. And i certainly come out and written you know very clearly that i think things like qualified. Immunity need to end But i'm just. I'm very interested to see what kind of reforms we see I had no problem with reducing the police budget. If we're also a adding in the necessary reforms and Reducing the the of large array of things that the police are now responsible to do that. Probably our best done elsewhere. I don't think that just sort of taking a cleaver to the budget is is is the way to do it. And i think that if this reform is done right This could really be transformative and this could. This could really be a very positive thing for the city going forward. Okay in a minute. We're gonna turn our attention to a bunch of state budget issues and listeners. I'm gonna put the ask out to you now so that you can call in at one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five eight hundred four to three talk. I'll ask you do you support. The governor's idea of a two month tax holiday and in the fight between the governor and the legislature on who should control federal relief money. Who do you wanna see. Allocating that money i recognize. I just jumped ahead for listeners. You know we gotta manage a lot of different moving parts here before we go to those subjects though charlie and francis. I do want to ask one other question. 'cause there's there's bridging the city of boston in the state there. Is this interesting potential battle between the boston public schools and the state so boston public schools has about four hundred thirty million in elementary and secondary school. Emergency relief called esser. That's funding coming from the federal government. State education commission jeff. Riley has threatened to freeze it in concerns over the turmoil in the boston public school committee. Here he is on tuesday. I am extremely concerned about what transpired on that school committee. They've lost four members this year. Two of whom are board chairs and the fact that there's nearly a half a billion dollars i think it's four hundred and thirty million dollars. That are coming. Esser funding Makes me nervous About what's happening in boston. And so we're going to wait and see and look at the stability in what happens with that board. So we had superintendent brennan conciliates from kosciusko. The boston public schools on air. Yesterday she pushed back on that a little also suggested and this was a little bit of news to us that they have other oversight. They're planning to put in place to make sure. That money is allocated your. She is working to put in an oversight office within the boston. Public schools so that we're good stewards of the funding and make sure that we hold ourselves accountable for the implementation monitoring of that funding. So this is that tension between oversight and speed in this case. Wait to get the federal funds until the oversight is kinda fixed in the boston public schools committee or allow other kinds of oversight and get that money out fast. Murray francis how do we think there's always a tension between oversight and speed. How do we think about it. In this case we absolutely should not be holding this funding back in a punitive way it from our students in our teachers and staff in schools. I think that. Just uncalled for This is money that needs to get into schools now. Schools need to update their systems. Are you know we students and teachers need funding now and because of some issues that have been going on on the school committee level. I do not think that funding should be held back from young people. Because of that challenge you agree no have a different view on that one. I'll tell you the boston. Public schools have an obscene amount of their resources tied up in court street and their their main office rather than in classrooms where it should be They had an audit just last all that That determine you know top to bottom you know managerial issues problems The public schools. Unfortunately like any large entity Doesn't work to improve on. Its own and i think that it you know in a situation like this with this long history of underperforming schools and the the trend of the district wants again going in the wrong direction. I think you've gotta take every chance at every opportunity you have for some leverage to try to really Put some things in place that are really going to provide some long term improvement in this system. Okay always satisfying to get both sides of the coin. There's still more at the city level. But i want to go to the state now. So there's a lot going on about money in the state house and again it's a battle of wills and about who gets control this time it's between the legislature and the governor. I want to start with the state budgets listeners. Unique to three things to follow along with us here one. We will not have a budget in place for the new fiscal year at the beginning. And that's not unusual to or at least anymore to the governor has proposed a five point four billion dollar gap filler budget which would give him the ability to make some advanced payments to cities and towns and three the legislature is pushing back hard. Because what the governor's proposing would also give him control over about half of the five point. Two billion dollars in federal pandemic aid that has been allotted to the commonwealth. So i think sometimes people's eyes glaze over when we talk about numbers but billions of dollars. Here this fight between the governor and the legislature is a big deal. Murray francis isn't it yes it's a huge deal and like i said similar to city budgets. It's important that we talk about power over decision. Making these are billions of dollars. Our state budget overall is about fifty billion dollars a year. The federal funding that's flexible. That's coming into the state that the legislature and the governor have been jockeying over who controls the purse strings of is five billion dollars. It's a lot of money what we've been saying. Is we believe that the legislature has the ability to run a process where there are public hearings. where constituents can reach out to their representatives to your voice where they'd like that money directed so that's where we stand in the back and forth of the governor's legislature charlie that brings est. Sorry sorry murray francis charlie that brings us again to this question of speed versus oversight and i guess i am assuming that in fact the governor can move faster than the legislature to make allegations. Am i right. And is that speed important right now and is it worth the oversight tradeoff off. I mean we've heard there. The difference is that there is certainly a difference in speed. And that's why. I mean i kind of like the governor's proposal on this where you know some of the money. He would have a control over so we can get it out right away for certain causes. That really needed immediate attention and the rest legislature Would have control over. I tell you i on this one. I fall back on recent experience and my own experience in state government. I'm thinking particularly of both. You know the romney and the patrick administrations look in the first term and a half of governor baker we've had a real Sort of rare moment of cooperation. Here where these were. These branches have worked together quite well and what i'm seeing You know more recently has been a real return to the sorta patrick romney kind of situation where you know the legislature ran the shell. They made it clear that they ran the show and they and They were going to go whatever to whatever ends. They needed to to enforce that. And i don't really think that i think more collaborative and more sort of mixed Power really serves people come off better all right so here is another place that that horn locking is going on. It's the governor's proposed two month. Sales tax holiday baker says we can afford it because of tax surplus is the legislature and other critics. Say not so fast. Mr. it's the wrong use of money. Just an example marina genie president of the massachusetts teacher association. Speaking to. wb. You are about the proposal. Our public schools are public. Colleges are roads. Bridges basic infrastructure has gone for decades without the investment. Now is not the time to say. Let's stop revenue sources and continue to delay those investments so murray francis before we even dive into the merits. We have just come through an economic crisis. How on earth is it that we are at a point where we're looking at surplus of tax collection such that there might be nine hundred million dollars play well. The baseline that we're operating from to get that surplus is actually chronic. Underfunding of care chronic underfunding of k twelve schools higher education etc. Our transit systems. So you know we're working from a baseline that's not adequate to meet the needs of our communities so therefore we have this surplus in. It's a real surplus. It's nine hundred million dollars well for the proposal. That governor baker putting forth is nine hundred million dollars and we have to be strategic about how we utilize that funding and the proposal governor baker says. The people deserve a break. So let's give people a break with. Its two months sales hats. Holiday people deserve investments in their communities that are targeted and renamed to be visionary about how we use this money that that that we have on end so charlie. I'm going to turn to you and ask you if you take the counter viewpoint. Which is that. The sales tax were there regressive in their collected from people. Why not give people back their money. That is the counterpoint is at your counterpoint. Or are you on the same pages. Murray francis on this. Well i would say kosher them refresh on this one than i am to the governor. I think that i could definitely. I could definitely see an argument for a slightly extended tax holiday this year given what taxpayers have been through but I would say you know. Maybe you go from a weekend two weeks or something like that. I certainly would not go to two months. I think that A generally speaking. I would agree that there are better ways to spend that money than to Give it give that much it. We're talking about something in the area of nine hundred million dollars or something like that. If it goes to full two months. And i i think that's a little bit extravagant all right. I'm going to tease our next subject. By closing this conversation with an exchange between governor baker and nbc tens alison king this week when she was asking him about his proposal and a potential run for a third term tax revenue because of the people in massachusetts came over expectations. I think we should give some indication. You're running for third term. I view this as a as a policy that i think should be easy to adopt k. Didn't answer the question. We'll pick that up after the break. Marie francis rivera charlie chippy. Oh stay tuned when we come back. We'll talk about the governor's race listeners. Eight hundred four two three eight two five. I'm tc on a daring and this is radio. Boston's week in review. Still with us. Marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center and a new analyst to weaken review and charlie chipiona senior fellow at the pioneer institute and irregular for us. And you so we are gonna talk about the governor's race and it may be early but it is interesting already. Are you watching. Are you interested. And if not want would make you interested. What do you need to know to find this fascinating as we to do one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to join the conversation. Charlie are you paying attention. I mean we had to make you pay attention today. But in general are you paying attention i am. I think this is fascinating. I'm not. I'm not a good. I'm probably not a good person to poll on this. Because when it comes to politics. I'm always paying attention. I'm an addict But i know so. Yeah i certainly am i. You know. I think that considering how it is This is this is certainly shaping up to be very interesting rich so and it got a little more interesting. This week mary francis with the entrance of state senator sonya chain diaz Three progressives already in the mix with her addition. What do you make of her candidacy. I'm also excited. This is a. I think it's great. So senator has done amazing things in the legislature. She has helped to birth. The student opportunity act of that's going to be investing one point five billion dollars into schools. So she has the track record listeners. Do you have a candidate. Do you wanna see people who haven't entered enter. Maybe more healy attorney general. Or maybe you're waiting to see if governor. Charlie baker is going to run for an unprecedented third term. Who's your candidate one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk so we did some analysis yesterday. I wanna play a little sound for the two of you from the boston globe. Kimberly atkins store. She's a friend of the show talking about governors races in massachusetts yesterday. People in massachusetts like to elect a divided government in the state. I mean in my lifetime. There's only been two democratic governors in the state of massachusetts so being the most progressive democrat isn't necessarily gonna win you the primary let alone when you the final seat so we'll have to see who else jumps in. I'm keeping my eye on really To see if more healy jumps in which would really shake up the race so it is striking to think that in her lifetime there have been two governors democratic asian. Say i i i thought was okay. She's way too young. I really got it. Might be the truly. I started doing the math in my head and i was horrible. Anyway my degrasse go ahead. No so i appreciate the humor. And i do wonder though i mean we are such a liberal state and we do love us some republican governors. Do you think that you know past is prelude here. I don't know. I really don't know i would say there are two things that give me pause about that. Is i think that you know one. One sort of obstacle for the governor. That people don't talk about very much is that he's dealing with his own party You know in his own party a group that has gone stark raving mad before is okay and i think they have the potential to create real problems for him. I wonder i don't know. I have no inside information. I wonder what is appetite to deal with. That is the only thing. I would say that You know makes makes me wonder i don. I don't know the answer. Is that i feel like in my you know. Many decades just realized listening to kimberly Following this stuff I have never seen the political climate here move so far left so quickly as what we're seeing right now and now that could either obviously be very harmful for him as more of a centrist centrist or It could be that you know the democrats You know sort of nominated whoever's the most liberal in that opens up a big lane for him very good for me. I'd say it's too early to really fit for me anyway to to know how i think that's going to play out listeners. Can a republican candidate still win the governorship in massachusetts one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. I wanna stay on the question of charlie baker for a minute murray francis and i'm gonna play more sound. I got a kick out of this yesterday mostly for the hesitation at first but then also for the answers when i asked both kimberly at can store of the boston globe and anthony brooks wbrc senior political reporter whether each of them thinks baker is going to run for a third term. I'll go out on a limb. I think he's going to run. But i don't say that with any kind of insider knowledge. I just have a gut feeling that. I can't imagine what else charlie baker would do. Frankly i would that. I mean in the trump a fide gop world. There aren't a lot of places for the charlie baker's to go if they wanna stay in politics and it seems that the best job he could possibly run for. Is the one that he already has some predictions there. Mary francis have the point that that charlie chippy. Oh just made which is. This is a state. Gop that doesn't like their own governor. Who is one of the most popular governors in the country but who clearly do not feel. It seems that he stands for them anymore. So you i apologize mostly question but can he run as a republican again in the commonwealth. There's a lot to respond to hear number one. Charlie baker could get a job in the private sector. So i mean. I think that there are possibilities for governor baker outside of his governorship and i think we're in a different entirely different context of having this campaign in this election where were coming off of an understanding of racial reckoning. Were coming off of covid. Our state is extremely unequal. We're seeing parts of our state in folks really suffering so it you know the the label progressive to me doesn't feel like the right leibel or for some folks that are offering big solutions to the big problems that we have here in the state and one thing that i've observed with governor baker is that he hasn't proposed bake fresh bold solutions and people are really aching for those. So that's why we're paying so much attention to you. Know abandoning or senator. Sonia chain diaz or daniel. Allen is because they're coming out with this fresh bold voice not necessarily don't have to be couched as progressive. It's just fresh and bold. There are new ideas to address these big challenges that we have so mary. Frances i hear you charlie. I'm going to turn to you. Because also listening to murray francis it seems those were the criticisms of governor baker in the last race as well that he was a mechanic not a visionary and that the commonwealth needed a visionary. Is there something different at stake. This time. I don't know that there's well you know that's a hard one to say what i would. Say is certainly. He is a more of a mechanic than a visionary that is You know that that is certainly true. I think you know when it comes to generes it depends on what you think of the vision a yes. I mean that's really that's really what it's all about you know. Look i have my own views. I mean a lot of people. Think you know would call deval patrick. I think that he probably was a visionary i was tearing my hair out of his mission. You know everybody's got a different view. That's why we live in democracy. So so i think the question. You're right i mean. I don't think there's really any need. I mean it's it's it's usual version of short-term like when when we were talking about politics here to put labels on it but i think the ultimate decision is are the visions that they're selling Once at the voters massachusetts are gonna want to buy. And i don't think we really know the answer to that yet we will. That's why we have elections okay so for the remainder of our time. I want focus on an issue that is playing out very locally but with huge national implications. And that's guns and towns in the commonwealth. Newton is the current center of the gun debate. They have new zoning which prevents a gun shop that wanted to open your the heart of one of their villages and it relegates any future shop proposals to a handful of remote locations in the city but there are some gun control advocates. Who want an all out ban on gun sellers instead now. The zoning committee recommends against it after hearing earlier this week and the city says that a band would quote would not withstand unquote. A legal challenge. Concerns are that such a challenge could actually create case law that might limit communities all around the country and their ability to restrict gun sellers. So this idea of a ban goes to a vote of the whole newton city council on july twelfth. I wanna talk about that listeners. Do you have a position on gun sellers in your community. Should there be outright bans. Is it worth if you are against guns. Is it worth banning gun sellers if it could open up supreme court challenges and is it appropriate to try to ban gun sellers in a country that has the second amendment one. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. Murray francis reactions to what's playing out newton. yes This is sticky. I meet what i want personally. A gun shop in my community. No and i hear what you're outlining. The tension of you know are we poking the the beast basically and you know at the end of the day. It's up to new residents in the city council. What they decide to do. And it's it's not just about the gun shop. It's about the conditions that create violence and communities and gun violence in communities so we oftentimes focus on this acute part of the conversation but it's also hurry investing in mental health services. What's the larger conversation that we also need to be having But yes sticky twenty. Let you jump in there. Yeah i would. I would. Personally i would say i have absolutely no problem with the community that chooses to Put a ban on gun shops within their borders. I have no problem with that at all. but i have to say you know as a as a political observer i you know i just don't get why when you have you know a sort of a almost a de facto ban now and you look at the makeup of this supreme court s mary. Francis said re francis said you know why you would poke this particular bear to to to to For not much else other than to kind of make a statement I don't understand i. It just seems to me that You know under the this new zoning they can pretty much. Keep gun shops out You know it's You know this just in this supreme court's pretty far to the right. So i i and there's been there's been concerned about that. Even the giffords law center which is an foundation run by gabby giffords sent a letter to the city council urging them not to adopt the ban given the posture the current court. And i want to get to this defacto ban idea with a little bit of sound. So i'm gonna play two pieces sound. Here's laura tova him. A local gun control advocating co founder of the newton gun violence prevention speaking to us on radio boston earlier this week. We have a very strong zoning. Ordinance in place that will accomplish our goals the ordinance is not just buffer zones there are many protections in the ordinance that make newton very inhospitable to gun stores and enacting a ban right now is just simply reckless so arguably the de facto. This already a band through zoning. But then here's newton city councillor. Emily norton about the lawsuit. Possibility also speaking with us this weekend radio boston. It's not that i'm thrilled at the idea of litigation. But i don't think we've protected ourselves now so if someone wants to sue us they can sue us. This is america. You can sue someone if you want. I don't really think we're at any more of a ban versus zoning limitation. That looks like a ban so marie francis the argument there and let me say that Emily norton has also argued. If you have a principal you move towards that principle. That's the argument. You know if if you really don't want gun shops if you want them banned than ban them and deal with it from a legal standpoint so so one defacto ban through regulation someone else saying stand up for what you believe in. We're going to get sued anyway. Is there any way. This doesn't wind up litigated up. The food chain murray francis. I just want to give a disclaimer. I'm not an attorney. But you know i under i understand that. There is a lot of fear in communities. There have been increases of mass shootings police brutality so on and so forth. But you know if there's guidance especially you're saying from the giffords law center to say you know there are regulations in place to really limit The ability for a gun shop to be in a community. Let's say you know. I would say you know. It's up to the residents to really decide what they wanna do. But this policy you. Sometimes you have to make the choice that makes the most sense at the time so listeners wanna talk about. This phones are ringing. I'm gonna take a bunch so let's go to the phones. we've got donna in dorchester donna. Head i wouldn't say that. I'm a dorchester resident and in boston They don't really have gun shop. And if if you a lot of black people and hispanics are now getting More gun licences. More than ever. And i think that's important to know and we need to make it accessible for. Everyone and having gunshots allows people to do it safely. They're not registering their firearm. Somewhere else and then bringing them into the city. At least this way people know where they are who has And and Accessible to everyone and we and people need to be able to protect themselves. And i think that's the point of the second amendment and this is a way that people aren't buying them from illegally in boston and this and or other cities close to bus and i think having an accessible having is on it is more sensible and and equitable taking it. Back from you there donna and before i go to the next call data in two thousand twenty did play out. Donna's point that we were seeing increased gun sales to people of color in the united states. We actually talked about that on air at one point last year. All right adam in marblehead. Adam go ahead. Hi if we agree that that access to guns is a dangerous public health issue that we can treat legislating the same way that we did. Unfortunately abortion is being treated abortions are right and people put restrictions on abortion in different states. So there's nothing different about us saying okay. Fine it's legal to purchase a firearm that these are the rules and restrictions that are required to access it. And so i thanks for that for you know city Taking point of view and making it more difficult if they choose thanks for that call adam and we will give the last word on this too nancy in copley square. Go ahead nancy. hello. I agree with donna. I think that working class decent citizens who pay taxes and what good need to have more access to guns People of color working class people of all colors is because the criminals. And the right wing. They have access to guns but we also need access as well. Thank you well nancy. Thanks for that perspective. So lots of different perspectives there. Marie francis and charlie and i suspect this is something. We're going to talk about more after the vote in july. Does either of you have a one sort of strong last word you want on this before. We moved to hubbub. All i would say is i i. I'm no expert on this. But i have a lot of trouble seeing how you know. Having more gun shops leads to good things and marie francis anything less from you i agree i agree all right so with that i think it is time for hubs because it's summer we are headed into the weekend and i love those little stories that caught her attention this week. It's always nice to leave room for them at charlie. I'll have you go first. You gotta hubbub for us. Do mine was sort of unusual. Mine is is is very personal. I have to say that. I had a. I was making one of my many trips to trader. Joe's the other day and i hadn't encountered that i just can't out of my mind a dignified. An elderly woman commented on the t. Shirt which is struck up a conversation and she started telling me about these amazing adventures. She had been through Talked about going to all three of the races. That are part of the triple crown in a single year Techy derby that free kness belmont. Just you know she if she talked about getting offend to go with her. She's telling me stories and she's got. The army's is flashing of someone. Who's in their twenty serve like my kids eighteen and twenty you know and just full of adventure and excitement and i was astonished when she told me that she was ninety. Eight years old and then. She told me that he was looking for someone because she wanted to go and do the trip go to the triple crown races one more time and i gotta tell ya i this encounter just really made me stop and think about how it live in the choices. I make how i spend my time. And it's utter head. So i just wanted to share. Now that's a great shout out to her and a and a great shout to the adventures of older adults. And what they what they bring a and the fact that we don't have to quit her experiences at any point. I wanna slide sideways at the very last minute marie francis. That's right marie francis. You've got a hubbub. I think is about a young person. Yes that's great. I was gonna say the other end of the spectrum so mine. Exactly mine is a brian. Weeden just was elected as chairman of the mashpee noack tribal council and he's the youngest person ever serve. He's twenty eight years old. He has been really interested since he was very very young in serving as a leader in his community and again you finally is able to do at their age restrictions so he created a youth council before he could actually serve on The the tribal council and it's beautiful The watson nation it's one of the three surviving tribes of the inauguration. And this is beautiful to see black indigenous leaders tastic and it's great to learn about another leader in our community. Is what exactly all right. So i actually gonna do my hubbub a big hubbub after the booth. Thought you were going to get the whole week. Without having to deal with me there is. My vets. Kris siddiq from radio boston so much to talk about in sports so we are going to do that with credits with chris. Hey there chris. After the break. In the meantime marie francis rivera president of the massachusetts budget and policy center and charlie chippy. Oh a senior fellow at the pioneer institute and principle of chippy strategies. Thanks for review in the week with us. Thank you so much. This is great. Yeah great great to initiate marie-france. I loved it. It was wondering to you all right. We'll be back with check the score after the break folks. This is radio boston. We're gonna finish the show by checking the score on sports today. Radio boston's chris circus here and it has been a week full of hubbub. Hey there chris so chris. I'm going to frame this up a little bit because we have one big piece of hard. Sports news with the boston celtics coach. But we're mostly actually gonna talk here about two developments improve and college sports. That have really serious resonance on issues of race equity lgbtq rights and that extend far beyond sports arenas into everyday life is that is that fair. Yeah i mean it's it's a really crazy time for sports across the national stage you've had a supreme court ruling that's going to have some pretty far reaching impacts on the nc double a. You also had the first active. Nfl player to come out as an openly gay player. Carl nessim and You mentioned the sports news. The celtics have a brand new coach. So that's all going to be in the mix here and we're gonna keep those phones open through the end of the show here only got a few minutes but if you want to jump on board on any of that one eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's eight hundred four to three talk. Yeah we'd love your reactions to the new celtics coach your actions to the supreme court and an associate justice brad kavanagh weighing in on compensation at the ncaa all of it so chris. Let's do the hard sports. i boston. Celtics news coach. There have a new coach. I have to admit. I was a little disappointed with the news because at one point it looked like they might hire the first woman as an nba coach. Tell us about this higher. Yeah i mean. That's where i would say. There were at least two pretty serious candidates on that front so i do think that is a bridge. That's going to be crossed in the Sooner rather than later. But let's talk about the coach. They did hire. Ma daca who was an assistant with the brooklyn nets. There's a couple of real positives here. I think in terms of what the celtics need. He is a former player. Brad stevens the the former coach was not and i think that was the one of his biggest weaknesses and trying to reach the locker room. Not only was daca former player. He's a kind of a grind. It out guy he was in and out of the league wasn't a superstar so we had to really work and scrap really hard. And we've talked about this team. Not having kind of the hunger and the mental toughness. So i really think that edge. That perspective is going to help these young guys grow into a full-fledged superstars he's also got a connection with some of the young talent on this team. He coached jason tatum. Jaylen brown and marcus. Smart in two thousand nineteen and some international competition and they actually weighed in on this move and were supportive of the higher. So i think that's important brad. Stevens had clearly lost this locker room. And you need to get these guys back. So i think bringing them in on the process is great Plus you learned for seven years under gregg popovich and san antonio who i'd say is one of the best if not the best coach out there right now So team is excited. I think fans are gonna like guy a lot. He wasn't one of the big splashy names that was being thrown around. But i think this is a really great higher and it's gonna be really interesting to see what this team does okay and just briefly reactions to this in the world basketball jets pretty positive like i said. He wasn't one of the splashing names. But i mean this dude has a legit resume you know. Some of the former players that turned to coach kinda waltz right in. That's what steve nash. Did in brooklyn had never coached before. And i think that can have hit or miss results But he has really worked his way up through the assistant coaching ranks. And i think that's really interesting We don't have a ton of player reaction but we have heard from al horford. Who is coming back to the celtics. As part of that kemba walker walker deal. He played under khudobin in philly. And here's what he had to say. When i spent a lot of time talking about defense in coverages in the the that i feel like workday feels that worked. And and things like that So i'm excited about him. I'm excited for for what he brains. And i and how he can help art rupe. I'm just looking forward to them. You know obviously supporting him and getting this thing going. I just love that. He mentioned defense specifically. This team needs a defensive edge and hopefully Khudobin bring that all right as we go forward chris. I'm gonna look forward to just what we can learn about leadership from this choice with this team. I think that's going to be a lot of fun. But let's turn now to the two national stories with deep residents outside the world of sports. The first comes from the nfl. Yeah absolutely we had the first active. Nfl player to come out as gay did that. Through a video. He posted on instagram. Carl nasa be plays for the raiders. here's a little bit of what he posted. It's all people karl massive. I'm on my house here in west. Chester pennsylvania wanna take a quick moment to say that i'm gay. I'd meaning do this for a while. Now but i finally feel comfortable enough to get it off my chest I really have the best life. I got the best family friends and job a guy could ask for I'm pretty private person. So hope you guys know that i'm really not doing this for retention I just think that representation visibility are so important. I thought there was something so beautiful about the matter of fact way this wasn't a social media campaign. He just posted a video that he taped in his backyard and he went on to say he hopes that videos like this aren't necessary in the future but until then he wants to do his part to cultivate an open accepting culture and even said he's going to donate one hundred thousand dollars to the trevor project it's an organization that focuses on suicide prevention among lgbtq so progress but also it's twenty twenty one You know michael. Sam years ago became the first openly gay player to be drafted but this is different and hundred years into this sport. Yeah and you mentioned san was drafted. He never actually made it into the regular season on the roster. We don't really know how much of that was factored into the fact that he came out publicly in two thousand fourteen. He did play in the canadian football league for a couple of years. We've had kind of a handful of players. Come out after retirement ryan. Callahan was one of those who played for the pats. He came out in two thousand seventeen after he retired He said a couple of interesting things actually said he was terrified of being outed while he was playing Any actually told the magazine out that quote. No one is going to assume. The big football player is gay. It's why a football team is such a good place to hide I just thought that was really striking quote in terms of speaking to the culture of of nfl. Football and i also wanted to highlight one more thing from nasa post Along with the video he posted in writing quote young. Lgbtq kids are over five times more likely than their straight france to commit. Suicide studies have shown that all takes his one accepting adult to decrease the risk of lgbtq kit attempting suicide by forty percent. So i i just think that really speaks to the representation of visibility. That nessie was talking about an important moment there. Now the other story comes from the us supreme court especially associate justice brett cavanaugh. Who knew right. No that's to do with college sport and this is a narrow ruling but actually could be huge so supreme court ruled on an ncaa. Ncwa rule that They set a certain amount of education benefits that schools are allowed to give out so they can't for example offer grad school tuition or paid internships or tutoring fees. Things like that. So supreme court upheld the lower court ruling that that rule has to get tossed out and it was a unanimous finding again. This is a pretty narrow ruling. But i think what you're seeing is paving the way for some huge changes in the future. Okay and what. Tommy of those changes in our remaining time. Chris and then and then i got a flag a piece of news coming and go ahead. Yeah so the entire argument from the nc double a. for not paying players to protect this quote amateur status but that definition is pretty squishy. Nobody really knows what that means. People running athletic department psychologists say. They don't know what it means. And we've had states enact laws that allow athletes to profit off their likeness. Just a real quick excerpt from kavanagh's a concurrent decision here her. As opinion nowhere else in america can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers. A fair market rate. You went on to say the nc double a. is not above the law. That is a huge line And really kind of foreshadows where the courts heading on this and you know to be noted that the revenues are largely being earned or made for the universities by players of color absolutely. Yeah so chris we were going to do a little bit more. But i am gonna say goodbye to you here because we've got a little news coming in so radio boston's chris citric have a great weekend. Thanks for checking the score with us by thirteen. Okay and listeners. I'm just going to tell you to stay tuned. Because the verdicts in minneapolis are coming in for former minneapolis. Police officer derek chauvin. Who was convicted in the murder of george floyd. We'll have that in just after the break. So stay tuned here for the news on the sentencing of derek chauvin and that is our show for today. radio. Boston is a production of ninety point. Nine w. b. u. r. boston's npr news station. Thanks for listening. I'm tc on a daring. Have a great weekend. Join us again. Monday for more radio boston.

boston governor baker murray francis legislature Murray francis charlie chippy charlie Marie francis rivera marie francis kim genie massachusetts budget and polic pioneer institute charlie baker Mary francis massachusetts boston globe Senator eric lesser Acting maher janey
A Warning for the Democrats (Ep 1062)

The Dan Bongino Show

53:51 min | 2 years ago

A Warning for the Democrats (Ep 1062)

"While big mobile subsidized leftist causes at erode our values our rights and our country Patriot mobile is donating to the causes you believe in Patriot mobile was creative conservatives like you voice both literally and in preserving our great nation join thousands of Americans using Patriot mobile and get reliable nationwide ed coverage. Keep your number. Bring your own phone or get a new one feel good about unlimited talk and text and high speed data planet fight for your freedom switch today at Patriot mobile dot com slash Dan again. That's Patriot mobile dot com slash. Dan Get get ready to hear the truth about America on a show. That's not immune to the facts with your host. Dan Bongino more fake news to depart upon today folks as always Monday morning and the litany of Fake News Stories Continues Journalism is dead. Stick a fork in it various six feet deep. Unfortunately absolutely they seem to have this vaccination against truth. Facts and reality stacks show for you today. Welcome to the Dan Bongino show producer Joe. How are you today Dan so for some the truth really hurts and it's a great Monday. You really are like in full talk. Show Kid road the Monday so I had to take jujitsu ground private less around game on Sunday little SORTA cleanup by the buckle on Thursday Thursday night when I got destroyed by a friend of mine in the class that was very upset about that but I feel good now top games a little by can't recommend private lessons enough it. Brazilian Jujitsu was great so good weekend for me. Hope everything's good for your stack Shota. I got another face palm. I agree with Rahm Emanuel on something it hold the presses former chief of staff Rahm. Emanuel actually had a moment of of of brilliants shocking. I agree with him on some Google Google collusion life liberty and Levine. If you saw it last night got that another <hes> trump hate incident rally whatever hoax I need to the bunk. It's really important all right so but he's at wax Rx Wax Rx been a sponsor from US two years and because of your support of wax. Rx Is how you're GONNA clean out. Your ears. Now folks no more those cotton swabs inside there. It's dangerous. Walgreens took notice and now carries it wax Rx. This is not the sexiest Potus to talk about but as I told you I had a problem with your wax buildup prior line of work and even now wearing these. ISP's my ear all the time when ears aren't clean and get really uncomfortable they itch. They're painful and get plugged up. I couldn't hear anything and my left Paula Ivan Messing around making it harder to hear. Many people use cotton swabs. You're not supposed to stick them in your ears. It's really dangerous even says on the back not to do that tried try. The doctor developed WAX RX ear wash system. It's just like the one doctors using their office. You save a trip a copay. It's just better try the WAX RX system by typing in go wax lacks. Rx Dot com go wax. Rx Dot Com Code Dan Checkout for free shipping or visit your local walgreens. Don't wait. You have no idea what you might be missing because of Interactions Real simple folks you see that spray nozzle yeah. He just put the Little Cup. They give you new year gently spray. It comes with the solution of breaks into your wax. You'll be surprised comes out. It's just fell over over on me but this is it wax Rx system visit. Go Wax Rx. Dot Com offer code Dan. That's go- wax. Rx Dot com use code Dan for free. He's shipping. Go Wax Rx. Dot Com offer code Dan for free shipping all right. Let's go here. We go way way off on this all right story number one. I agree with Rahm Emanuel shockingly. I know we stop the presses but raw manual who was brock. Obama's former chief of staff failed mayor of Chicago was John. Was it was one of these talk shows this week and I have the clip. I'M GONNA play in a minute and he was giving a warning to the Democrats about eight ladies jets. You're going down the wrong. Walk path for this brief moment in time. I actually agree with Rahm. Here's what he said this week. We've taken a position so far in the canyons have through the process if you have not about on basically Medicare for all which we're GONNA limit one hundred and fifty million people's healthcare and we're GONNA provide health care for people that just over the border that is an untenable position for the general election is is you know. George just biked around Lake Michigan nearly a thousand miles through Michigan and Wisconsin to really important states. Nobody at a diner ran at me and said take my healthcare way. Nobody this is this is reckless as it relates to and you don't have to take the position to win the primary and you're basically literally hindering during yourself in the general election these he's right. Have you already do disagree with them. Because he was his chief of staff. He's absolutely right in this medicare for all proposal being espoused by many of the top Democrats Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders and others out there who've raised their hand in support Lord of this Disaster Ladies and Gentlemen Political Tactical Debacle of historic proportions now. I'm not a manual fan obviously but he he can be tactically sound when he's not a leadership position himself up for his side for our side which deadly us he was the guy you know. Don't let a crisis go to waist manuals. One of these guys that helped Obama push through some of the most liberal pieces of legislation in American history. The Guy knows what he's doing on his side which which again is very bad for us. He's warning them. This is a bad idea now. I was on Fox and friends this morning for my Monday morning appearance. I always do about six thirty sometimes a little later on Monday morning. I got up this morning early and I saw that was the topic and I was really happy to talk about it. Now I addressed the couple of things I want to address here in a little more detail. Obviously those are a little they call them hits on TV a little shorter. This is my show. I have a little bit more time. Why is this so dangerous for you and everyone out there point number one ladies and gentlemen resources are scarce. We need to all understand this then when it comes to Medicare for all which is basically single payer government run healthcare off care for everyone in this country in lieu of what you have now. All resources are scarce everything. Please tell me a resource. That's not scarce the opposite of scarce show Joe being unlimited correct yes again. I need you to put on the audience. Somebody gets complicated stopped. Unfortunately we have to talk to liberals who were vaccinated against fact something understood. All resources are scarce now. When it comes to medicine and healthcare apps a doctor's time is scarce correct? They work eight. Maybe sixteen hours today. Hospital beds are scarce rooms in hospitals or scares. MRI machines are scarce. None of this is unlimited. Everything water is scarce. It's not unlimited either. Scarce resources can only be allocated one of two ways you can either price them or you can ration of the folks. There is no third way you can price. Those resources gold medical appointments computers others. It doesn't matter iphones you can price them or you can rationale there is no other way to allocate them in other words to distribute those you can distributing distributive based on people who are willing to pay a certain price for them or you can ration them. There is no other way when you wipe out the price signal and use the government to price these things which makes prices irrelevant because you paid in tax dollars to the government. They're just giving money away. When you wipe the price signal that you have to ration your healthcare <hes> there is no other way every single payer system on earth that is implemented this medicare for all which is really medicare for none because it will wipe out Medicare's occurs you know it. Every place on earth has had to implement some form of rationing to try to keep the use of those services down because those services when the government amid government pays for them. Which really means you your tax dollars Joe? WHAT DO PEOPLE DO. They think it's free sure so. They rushed to the hospital when they get the sniffles they pile up in emergency. See Rooms guy gets a little cut on his hand. He winds up going to the emergency room. Instead of just putting some peroxide and neo sporran on kids got an ear infection instead of going to win your doctor are they wind up in the emergency room instead you wind up with dramatic overuse of medical services which correspondingly leads to what rationing I've said services because the government doesn't have enough money and enough of a tax base to pay for everybody to go to the emergency room every time they get the sniffles. It's only happened every every place on earth. It's been tried now. We've discussed that Ad Nauseam on this show repeatedly price it ration it. There's no other way there is no third way government run healthcare Medicare for all whatever you WANNA call it by any euphemism they want to use is a rationing system by default fault now. What's the problem with that. Why am I bring this up now. Emmanuel brought up a very key point there that I think a lot of people missed in that appearance which I brought up this morning but again I repeat here in a little more detail because it's important he says listen. I was biking around Lake Michigan Manual and that cut and he says rahm Emanuel and he says listen. Nobody's is talking to me about hey. I want to get rid of my private. Healthcare free market health care nobody now. Why is that a problem. Why is what do you think get in his head. He is a Liberal Democrat. Strategist gratitude to again when he's not in the leadership possession himself is actually very effective at getting anti liberty stuff push through the Obama Agenda Dote. Dote disrespect back to guys tactics disagree with them but if you disrespect and ignore them that's how they get this stuff past your auto pay attention that guy's knucklehead no he's not. He knows exactly exactly what he's doing. He's sounding the alarm for Democrats because there's a foil effect folks that they don't necessarily have in other single payer countries the National Health Service in the United Kingdom a lot of these single payer health services in Scandinavia and other places joke in Japan and elsewhere a lot of them. They've had them for decades for most of your a little bit older than me not much but for most of your adult life if you've lived in the United Kingdom Joe you have not known own what free market healthcare looks like again. You can just go to the doctor. There's no waiting list. You have not known any different that is not the case here ear. No Emmanuel is warning the Democrats that people here know what it's like to go to the doctor when they want. Is Everything Perfect Heck No. There's a lot of time as a lot of downtime in waiting rooms but generally generally speaking in the United States if you want to go to a doctor are by law. If you want to go to the can't turn you away you can go. Is it perfect. No the system has many flaws a lot of it due to the government medicine matter of fact which pays about forty percent of the healthcare bills but you have this foil effect now you don't have in other single payer countries. They never all they've done is sit on waiting lists. Tito know any different. It's almost like the enemy you know is better than the enemy. You don't know how we can institute the two single single payer in the United States and it would take away the healthcare. You have now people go. I hate to healthcare. I have now where you're GONNA wind up in a government clinic no no. I don't want that you see how it works. In reverse <hes> the United States you will never see this and this is a devastating proposal for the Democrats because even though people in the United States now are not crazy about their healthcare psychologically sociologically. The fear of the unknown is greater than the fear of what they have now because at least what they have now they can deal with them. They've learned to deal with over the years <hes> okay. The reverse is happening in the United Kingdom. They know what they have. Now has problems significant -nificant problems. People Are Dying on waiting lists. Five percent of the United Kingdom doctors admit to knowing patients that have died waiting this those are just the five hundred doctors admit to it forty thousand upwards of forty thousand Canadians a year if not more crossed the border to pay for healthcare here despite getting it quote free in their country and Canada Canada but folks the fear. The unknown is very powerful. Just look at any of these psychology studies they do when you give people the statistical analysis allison. Do you WanNa take this dollar now or do you want to flip a coin and statistically you're almost guaranteed to make a dollar twenty five. No no just give me the dollar now these studies. We used to talk about them on the show all the time. That was my yeah you know area of graduate. I remember we when you look at studies on uncertainty ninety people will pay a premium. They will lose money for uncertainty when you tell them. It's almost the typically guaranteed. If you just flip a coin. You'll make more money bike. Just give me the money now even though they know the data says you will make more if you flip the coin probability wise some could lose of course but the fact that you could lose even if it's a small percentage of people don't want it. That's why this is such a political disaster for the left and that's why honestly folks. I don't see any change around the world with these single payer healthcare systems despite the fact that people know they're being rationed literally many of them to death because they're uncertainty troubles them but Emmanuel smells problems here for them. This guy's tactically smart he gets it. They are in a world of trouble and the trump team needs to leverage at Oh. It's important topic healthcare. We haven't discussed that a lot lately. I wanted to make sure we got to that really really critically important stuff all right. I want to get the story number two because this is this is really a couple of bombshells on life liberty and the Vin last night. <hes> marks marklevinshow evinced terrific show on. Fox Airs at ten PM on Sunday Nights. It's really very good if you haven't checked it out set your DVR but he had a guy last night on a PhD batting guy named Dr Epstein now. We've heard all about you know Russian collusion Russian collusion influence the elect you have any evidence that no we don't have evidence it was of course the biggest hoax of our time was the whole Russian collusion overturned the election on says they bought like what is it for four hundred thousand dollars in social media as it was probably less than that match by the time they were done and the Democrats want you to believe the Russians got. Donald trump elected well. They had this guy on life liberty and last night. I got video from this stunning making some really unbelievable well. I shouldn't say UNBELIEV- I mean they're definitely believable knowing Google but hard to fathom comp- charges about what Google may be doing to influence the election and what they didn't twenty eighteen check out. This brief cut become back. I'll explain how devastating this is going to be now. When you say in twenty twenty they're going to go all out to defeat trump and promote whoever the democrat nominees all out means like right up into election election day pushing these agendas for example if they put on their their site as they did in the past go vote instead of Google right they go vote. What was that twenty sixteen twenty eighteen twenty twenty eighteen. They'd go vote and people were praising them. You know like the League of women vote. Wow look at that. It's a public service. Go vote. You don't think there was a public service at all Y. Oh No I know for sure I actually published an article in which I included all the calculations showing that this was actually just a vote manipulation <hes> and that's something I'm now studying and understanding better <hes> but the point is that <hes> you know that would have let's put it this way. Goule knows full. Oh well that more. Democrats and left leaning people like myself use Google <hes> Van Republicans. Do they know that they know the exact numbers so they know that if they present a go vote prompt they know that's going to have a bigger impact on. Democrats than Republicans and I calculated violated that that one manipulation twenty eighteen gave at least eight hundred thousand more votes to Democrats than to Republicans. It's the turn that in a see here folks Russia. Let's talk about the Russian collusion. The biggest hoax of our times rusted collusion did with the trump team to impact the election this guy this. PhD Who by the way I don't believe is a conservative at all was on. Levin show made the claim did. Did you hear what he just said that the Google go vote was potentially an intentional manipulation knowing that more liberals Burlson Democrats will use Google <hes> wasn't intentional manipulation that could have impacted the decision making of eight hundred thousand Rosen voters. Don't show it was it was the forty dollars by of a facebook AD in eastern the notion Wisconsin that definitely changed the election by the Russians that was it was definitely it. Do you understand eight hundred thousand thousand voters would a different set his remember folks. Keep this in mind. I took this no because I don't want to mess. I don't want to mess up. This is important. The presidential election is not not a national election as many of you are aware of it is a series of fifty different state elections it. The popular vote is irrelevant. You're not elected by the popular vote so the eight hundred thousand may not seem like a big number in an election where one hundred million people turn up vote but it is when you consider the fact that if the trump reelection effort hinges on just a few states Miss Michigan Wisconsin Pennsylvania Donald Trump won those states some of them by the thousands of votes thousands of those eight hundred thousand if twenty or thirty thousand votes tip Michigan and Wisconsin Ladies and Shannon the path to reelection for Donald trump. Maybe already shut off. What why is this not? How is this not breaking news. That was an amazing using amazing interview. Mark always has a way by the way of finding guests what I like about his show that just a hat tip mark for a minute. I mean obviously full undisclosed marks a friend but I'm not saying this friend at all. <hes> anybody can do an interview with the person of the day whoever the per you know whatever the story of the day is you know the sky rescued this guys does a great and they're good and TV loves them and stuff but to do a forty minute interview. Mark shows an hour commercials. He always finds these guests that aren't necessarily the newsmakers of the day and he makes them the newsmakers of the day. That's an astounding claim Joe. Oh yeah and that Google may be repeating this strategy for for twenty twenty. This could have a severe impact but again they'll be no investigation whatsoever of that none by the media that is the media will avoid that topic and focus instead on the debunk. Russian collusion remember eight hundred thousand thousands a huge number. If ten thousand even five thousand of those are in one of these swing states decided by a couple thousand votes or less google couldn't fact tip the election. How is that not an in kind donation to the Democrat Party. Google should have folks ladies and Gentlemen Google. Stay out of the voting business. Stop manipulating people. Stay out of the voting bit if people google. Where do I vote. That's your job. Your job is not political activism. Your job is to be a search engine. It's not too political. It's not to get involved politically very very very very disturbing stuff. I got pretty stack showed this. I got a debunked this story. It's really has me furious at the trump rallies. I'll get to that in a second. If you heard this one trump rallies they're associated with a increase in hated. Oh I read that I was like I think Palumbo already debunked this on our website but I read that I was Mike now. That sounds like another media story not the story you get what I mean. We'll get to that in a second all right. Today's show brought to you by buddies lending lending club for decades credit cards telling US buy now pay later with interest despite your best intentions that interest adds up fast. 'cause you big problems with lending club. You can consolidate your debt or pay off your credit cards with one one fixed monthly payment. Who's better than you. Since two thousand seven lending club has helped millions of people apple regained control of their finances with affordable fixed rate. No tricks personal loans no trips to a bank no high interest credit cards. Just go to lending club DOT DOT COM. Tell them about yourself. How much you WANNA borrow pick the terms that are right for you and if you're approved your loan is automatically deposited into your bank account as little as a few days ace lending club is the number one peer to peer lending platform with over thirty five billion in loans issued go to lending club dot com slash? Dan Check your eight minutes. It's borrow up to forty thousand dollars. That's lending club dot com slash. Dan Lending Club dot com slash. Dan Loans made by webbank member. FDIC equal equal housing lender check him out lending club dot com slash. Dan Okay Yeah. You know. It's just kind kind of comical how easy it is to debunk liberal nonsense narratives so let's get a check out this piece by reason magazine in the show notes today. If you WANNA see by the way my full appearance on Fox and friends this morning I have it in the show notes to with Fox News Dot com piece you can check that out but check out this reason dot com piece by Matthew Lilley Brian Weeden September six twenty nine hundred. It's really you know trump. Rallies didn't increase hate crimes by two hundred twenty six percent in fact they didn't have any detectable impact at all okay okay. I see I know I if if you're a regular listener to the show you read so the story that headline just so you know what reasons the bunking is. There was a study if you even want to call him so poorly done the call it a studies an Barrasso study but there was a study that came out when trump hosa rally in a place that quote hate incidents go up up two hundred twenty six percent up dramatically the minute you read this stuff. You should automatically know that this is probably bs but you know rather than just saying it's BS. Let's show you how it's bs so you have the ammunition you need. During this twenty twenty cycle to not only debunked the nonsense but the authors of these peas he's turn it around and make a very interesting counterargument had like to point out I point out the methodology and how stupid this was okay so they collected the data on some of the the the thesis testing the hypothesis the hypothesis trump holds a rally somewhere and hate incidents through the roof racist so the authors authors here they use the data. They collected it the same way they also analyze the effect of Hillary Clinton chose laugh because he's reading ahead analyze the effective active Hillary Clinton's campaign rallies using the identical statistical framework the extensible finding Hillary Clinton rallies contributed to even greater increase in hate incidents. Then trump rallies aw Hillary Clinton rallies ten yards feet first down folks the U. Dub misses. I haven't avenue how this works. I'm going to get deeper into how this works because this happens often and sorry but really I a trying not to like dig libs too much ignorant people accept that on its face that trump hated said obviously racing using the exact same methodology Kaladze where did Hillary Clinton hold a rally in the exact same of Hillary Clinton rallies legislate greater increase in Hankook so she had even bigger racist than you say. Trump is now of course this all silly stupidity what happened what went wrong. I Love Science. Real science not not fake liberal science so what explained explain to you how they do this why it's wrong so you can prevent from falling in the black hole of ignorance that is liberal media nonsense because the liberal media promoted this story read the piece reason season and you'll see how the liberal media ran with the headlines all over trump rallies hate incidents. He's GonNa die. Go near a trump rally. You'll be killed immediately. You're GONNA hate incident. Put up screen shot number two from this piece. This is very telling they're talking about. The results say probably not but talking about Hillary a racist. We'll we'll probably not. Both of these results rely on comparing counties with rallies to other counties without them. Well this produces a glaring problem so stop for a second here so the methodology was so stupid what they did is they said well. Let's just compare a trump rally where it happened to a county where there was no rally says politicians tend to hold political rallies. Joe Not surprising yeah where large number of people live area and in places with more people people. The raw number of crimes is generally mechanically higher shut. I know liberals. This is a shocker for you but we're there are more people oh there's generally more crime where there's no people there's no crime okay. Simply put no one. She's just from the Peace Now. Once you'd be surprised at Orange County California population three point one nine million was home to both more reported hate incidents five and trump rallies to then Orange County Indiana population nineteen thousand eight hundred forty which had zero of each. I know this is hard. I know this is tough for liberals to figure out but but politicians need votes so they go to places and hold rallies where people who can vote actually live where there are large numbers of people it will skew the data on cries because where there's more people there is a tendency to have more crime than where fewer the people now you would think the geniuses in the media that it's funny watching them out and he'll analyze criminal justice data sociological data and socio psychology and sociology studies because they can't even do journalism no less redes- research but how they didn't figure that out in this analysis is so bizarre. This is not a complicated skated confound. I'm going to get the conference is not going to be a science show today. But I you know money. We're going to talk about my educational so we stupid. Let me I'm smart. In experimental psychology was one of my favorite clan. Everybody else hated it. I loved it because it was the rules of conducting experiments generally accept or not just just experimental psychology was more than just about psychology. There are ways you conduct these kinds of experiments and there are ways you don't and you have these things called confounding founding variables that will pollute your data and Joe. One of them is obviously controlling for population size. This is not hard to figure out. This is not complicated complicated. Orange County California with three million people of course is going to have more reported hated said it's Orange County Indiana data with one thousand nine thousand people joe. I'm not mock seriously. You audience loves you and they have not mocking. I'm being sarcastic but not an effort to mock. You know you go to graduate school and study experimental econometrics or right. No you know I didn't do that. You're a smart guy though I know not very smart. I'm not kidding messing. Dude it out of a tough time figuring this out because I get emails from people who loved you. I'm not I'm just trying to show that Joseph's smart guy and if joe is in media which he's not I mean on the journalist side. We do opinion here. Joe Probably would have figured out in a second okay million people yeah. You're probably going to happen before report crimes than nineteen thousand guests. I didn't needed boost bound for that. You know you know it's not hard. It's not complicated to peace goes on because this is important nor or is it sensible to interpret that one of these differences hate crimes is caused by the other political rallies indeed ebbing a simple statistical control for county depopulation to the original analysis 'cause the estimated effective trump rallies on reporting hate incidents to become statistically indistinguishable from zero zero. The study is wrong and yet journalists ran with it anyway of course Canadian because as I just say you with the Google Story and the Russian Russian collusion story and others journalists aren't doing journalism anymore. It's dead. They are telling you a story. Not thus story story a story versus thus story now the narrative. They wanted to tell in a story here. Here is trump's a racist and we're trump talks hate incidents happen. They ran with a study so easily debunked that they were worried about their credibility. They would just worried about parodying the liberal narrative of the day and I thought about one quick example in a move on because I got a couple of things to get to simple simple important show really important stuff today. When you're doing research right you want to eliminate these confounding invariables because you want to isolate the effect of one specific thing right. Let's say trying to think of an easy example smart. Let's say you're doing an experiment on reaction time. You know hit the Buzzer. When you see the light and you don't randomize your subjects into into different groups you pick say a bunch of students. You like you know what just go. We'll get those students from that dorm over there and let's let them do the study versus this dorm over here on reaction time and you find out that one dorm on the college campus interesting reaction time is unbelievably quick versus the other dorm that they're super slow the reaction. I got the button we see in one group is boom and the other group is like they just don't so you come to the conclusion from your study poorly controlled not randomize that clearly the better conditioned athletes are indoor may versus door because their reaction time is better well. Joe Was the problem with that well. The problem is you didn't eliminate the confounding variables that polluted your results and you find out that dorm bead that was allegedly slower. Poor athletes had a massive party the night before on Saturday night. They all woke up intoxicated thing and they were in the same dorm party and of course their reaction times are going to be worth. It doesn't mean they worse athletes. Always always I always look for the confounding variables the polluting variables the variables the variables that pollute your data. This one was so so easy to pick out any journalism one. Oh one student with half a head on their shoulders would have seen immediately the stupidity the study before writing it up but I'm sorry some of the least intelligent people I know are in journalism. I'm sorry I've met a lot of them. I remember telling this Guy Guy at the Washington Post editorial page that the the Reagan and Bush tax cuts didn't lead to a loss of tax revenue. I sent him the tax tables and he still didn't believe me. I'm like you can't read either. You can't process the information first and then I send you. The tax and you can't read a spreadsheet like how dumber you but this is. What's polluting our journalism it really it's embarrassing. It's so bad frustrating just read that data by Gosh and then they'll rip on us. Joe Wright budget on show because purity. It's not frustrate the snot out of me. Just do your job. You don't like trump fine just right up the report and Hey this report is a problem with the report. People make let people make their own judgments. I don't mind you in writing it up but just be honest about it. I would if someone put a report that about <hes> about Obama there was a ten thousand percentage points spike in hate crimes crimes and I saw that the data was polluted by population. I'm not going to humiliate myself and report on that by credibility actually matters unlike you all right moving. Well frustrating folks. Did you get that dough. It made sense right breath speaking of a good night's sleep in a reaction. I did not plan that out helixsleep our final sponsor. They loved to death helixsleep. We have to helixsleep mattresses in our house through that good good. We Love Sleeping Autumn here helixsleep quiz quiz. Why would you need a quiz for mattress. DOCO in a mattress store spent eight hours over the guy who's going to sell you. Some junk not customized so you Helix Helix Sleep Helix H. e. l. i. x has a two minute quiz. Come matches your body type when you answer the questions on the quiz to a mattress that fits you. That's some joke mattress for someone else. Are you aside sleeper like me. A hot sleeper definitely like me. I'm always like F. Forget it. I keep the at sixty eight. I'm still hot. You like a pleasure sure affirm bed with Helix. There's no more confusion and no more compromising helix customize. Your mattress for me. Helps me sleep at night. helixsleep is rated the number one mattress by G. Q. and wired magazine. It's the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on my daughter to my daughter Amelia House with me and Paula havoc just go to Helix H. E. L. I. X. SLEEP DOT com slash Dan helixsleep dot com slash and you need a new mattress support our sponsors support. You will not regret it the best mattress out there for the money. Take their two minute sleep quiz. They'll match you to customize customize mattress. That will give you the best sleep of your life. Don't waste your time on some store bought nonsense for someone else and for couples. This is a nice benefit. Helix can even even split the mattress down the middle fighting individuals support needs. It's nice preferences for each side. They have a ten year warranty. Get to try it out for one hundred nights risk free free. They'll even pick it up for you if you don't love it. That's how confident the you need it. You're GONNA love it. Helix is offering up to one hundred twenty five dollars all mattresses for our listeners get up to one hundred and twenty five dollars off at a lot helixsleep dot com slash Dan. That's helixsleep dot com slash Dan for up to one hundred twenty five dollars off your mattress. SORTA HELIXSLEEP DOT com slash Dan go check them out. Yeah man get rid of those confounding variables founding sleep variables. That's very sad ed very good. He Helix fix it for you. Confides Trudeau course this. I had this professor who is so smart and he he would tell you about confounder. You never thought about if you don't when you randomize people and you stick them in different experimental groups those confounding variables in the effects are randomized amongst the experimental. You can attribute the difference in both groups to your statistical manipulation and not pre existing manipulations. That's the whole field experimental psychology and Statistics of course you don't know any of that as they'll sit there and Basha in our show. It's on the Dan Bongino. We're the idiots right sure yeah keeping yeah good job fellas you reported on the study so easily stoop read the reason piece in the show notes. It's so worth your time. Hey One quick request to which trying to get to three hundred thousand on Youtube subscribers as quick as possible. If you wouldn't mind subscriber near Youtube Channel YouTube dot com slash Bongino personally really appreciate it. We're at like two seventy now and it's growing really fast. Ask so YouTube dot com slash bongino subscribed. I'd appreciate that okay story number four quattro. Here's a warning for twenty twenty. I've been covering this repeatedly. Do you think the gun control issue and I always use air quotes because gun controls a myth. There's no such thing as gun control. There's only people control guns have never been controlled. You're not going to control troll guns. There are hundreds of millions of firearms around the world. Unfortunately a lot of dangerous people can access to them. You're only question now is. Are you going to defend yourself against those people all with your own firearm or are you going to become a sheep <hes>. There's no other scenario that gun control is a myth. It is a liberal myth. Put out there to make you believe the world will be safer if law-abiding people turn their firearms in while criminals laughed at all of us for turning in our firearms so they can prey on so here's a story by a friend legal insurrection one of the better blogs after by a friend Fuzzy Z. Slippers Paulin left. I don't know fuzzy firstly as it a he or she had no idea but Paul was like fuzzy slippers. We Love Fuzzy slippers. Lee piece legal insurrection being the Shona City Report. Take this seriously gun control measures could reduce trump's base support going into twenty twenty quote data gathered by the President's campaign showed that supporting any gun control measures propose a problem for him politically going into the twenty twenty Twenty Election Season Ladies and gentlemen. Why do I bring this up folks. I bring this up because Paul how many emails we get on this of what Yeah Alex is probably the biggest underestimation Hubert history. She's being generous by saying I have received so many emails from you. I listen. I wondered I saw a couple of misinterpreted mice. I if you listen to the show I am not a supporter of any new gun control meant they. It just don't work. They just don't I'm sorry they just don't they will do nothing to curb illegal gun violence nothing I do not I do not support red flag was. I thought I'd been clear. I only say that because a couple of folks email but they weren't rude or anything but they I think they misinterpreted my position. I'm an avid supporter order. Second Amendment Constitutional carry these gun control measures are a disaster now from the legal insurrection piece. This is a a pleased to the trump admit I. I hope you're listening. This is a theme being covered more recently as reports suggested trump's internal polling is highlighting the danger of proceeding meeting with gun control measures measures. It should be noted that target the law abiding would not stop criminals from committing gun related crimes folks the trump team has to know this the same sentient gun owners out there understand that these new measures being proposed will do absolutely nothing nothing nothing to curb gun violence in this country nothing because criminals don't care folks now the warning for them what issue shoe voters there were very few one issue voters compared to the matter and they matter big time but there are very few with them honestly folks very few people vote on one issue. The economy should basically describe one vote means. That's it that decide your vote your voting on that no matter what yeah shockingly but when you look at the data having run for office three times you analyze stuff in and out there are very very few one issue voters people think they are their vote on the economy. That's not the only reason you're voting. The data doesn't support that but there are one issue voters and two issues basically monopolize space of one issue voters. I hope you get what I'm talking about. Abortion and guts in other words not a lot of people one issue voters on the economy. Not a lot of people are one issue voters on Healthcare Work Determines Ovo Oh vote but when it comes to guns and it comes to abortion there are a lot of people you will win or lose their vote based on what you do on one of those issues please please. I know there are a lot of people in the president's here and I think he's going down the right path with this do not jeopardized by getting involved with this disastrous new set of measures that again will do nothing to curb gun violence in this country. We'll only place obstacles in front of people who want to defend themselves and their family. It will do nothing. There is no evidence whatsoever. Any of these things will work now showing you. How bad of an hi dear this stuff really is I cover. I just touched on this a little bit last week but I didn't get to cover it in detail I wanted to did you see what happened. In San San Francisco just a harp on one of these gun control measures and how poorly thought out this these red flag laws are a disaster these red flat lot flag was or they are in essence. They're protected protection orders. I mean you don't have to be convicted of a crime and they can take your firearms arms away based on someone's accusation. They're called gun violence protection orders. A Red Flag was you may say well. What's the problem with that ladies and Gentlemen. The potential title for abuse is rife as I said last week and I'll just repeat quickly here yes if you implement red flag was. I'm not naive. You will probably stop. Stop some cases of gun violence. You will you mentioned what are you so. Why wouldn't you support them because folks. You could say that about anything well. If we threw out the requirements firemen for search warrants Joe we'd be able to search anyone's house yeah of course you're stopped some you don't so flush liberty down the toilet folks trade liberty for security. You will have neither as great founding fathers said I'm not willing to do that. I'm not willing Lina sacrifice liberty for enhanced sense of fake security. Look at what happened in San Francisco San Francisco. Oh branding the Nra San Francisco politicians see this brief Simmons Fox News San Francisco's branding the NRA as a terrorist organization was was even panned by the Washington Post and the L. A. Times even they said this one too far now just to be clear you want politicians and others like the these absolute lunatics in San Francisco that voted to bake the NRA a terrorist organization. What are the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life. It pains me to repeated. Did you want these same people being able to write Red Flag Laws to confiscate your firearms without ever accusing you of a crime at all ladies and gentlemen I will give you both sides of an argument you. You're very smart. You can figure it out on your honestly again being candid with you. I know a a lot of gun owners and second amendment supporters. Maybe not as strong as I am who don't think red flag. Laws are a bad idea fair enough. I disagree agree. You are engaging in a slippery slope here that will result in the slow evaporation of your ability retain. What's GONNA be next. You're a conservative in San Francisco terrorist organization to and then there's a law if you're deemed a terrorist organisation red flag loss kick in they come to take your farms enjoy. That'll never happen here yeah. We didn't think the FBI would spy a presidential candidate either but that happened to. I'm sorry this is not a good idea idea and to tie this up the trump administration. They need to see this. You need to understand how bad of an idea this and you need you to explain it. There's nothing wrong with giving the public both sides and then telling people why you take the stance against this that you don't tonight it's you. You sound silly. Denying that these red flag wouldn't stop a few they would have no problem saying that but again we are conservatives. Conservatives have to say the famous Thomas Soul Line the greatest economists of our love. Thomas Solid philosopher his book. Visually you're going to change my life okay and then what and then what happens if you implement red flag was oh well the potential for abuse by people in San Francisco. Just don't like you is is enormous. We've already seen it you branded the NRA a domestic terror group. Are you kidding me. Big trouble big the big trouble big warning bad bad idea and ladies and gentlemen. We cannot afford to lose twenty twenty. This will be a disaster. Those one issue voters will turn on this president. They will they their own internal data showing. I think the president's getting some good advice by some on this so I I'm optimistic. I don't WanNa sound like you know Debbie Downer here but that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about batted and put that warning out there. It's important okay moving on final story of the day but a good one bye resident fact Checker Matt Palumbo. He did a great piece so this is a good one. I was a little skeptical when he proposed this to me till he said what do you think of this story and I was like yeah. Whatever give it a go. This is a great one. It's up at the show notes today again. Dot Com subscribe to our email list. This listen Joe's laugh and of course he's reading ahead youtube dot com you viewers you probably watch it out <hes> up with email. Liam Elise theories right to you back. Does the buck this. Heo See blames one hundred companies for climate change. What's the problem but half of them are government vermin owed by September six twenty nine. This was what I read it. I'm like by I really would he proposed story to pitch it to me as I don't get it now. Oh I got the angle to it where he was going with because it didn't get if he wished would have sent me that headline I would have been golden so here's the genesis of this there was this study and I always have to use again the dreaded air quotes because anytime you hear about it liberal study just like reason dot com you have to look for either the confounding variables or the pollution in this study the dirt in this study that pollutes the evidence so there was this place called the carbon disclosure project right and the carbon disclosure project did this that we can see from the Matt. That's a separate from Matt's peace and the study let it showed this from Matt's peace and I'm quoting another popular variant to the claim basically that these hundred companies that are polluting the world or older are responsible which is really just a rephrasing of it is that one hundred of the largest companies are responsible for seventy one percent of carbon emissions and that's source that data from a two thousand seventeen carbon disclosure project report man. Does that sound serious. The project is tracking emissions by company from Nineteen Eighty eight to two thousand fifteen so again. If if you're a liberal you can stop here because liberals again in the media at telling a story not this story so the narrative the media wants out. There corporations bad very very bad evil awful polluting the earth. We're all GONNA TA and that the biggest one show of course it's not the mom and popsy big corporations. They're the polluters these hundred corporations and by the way that's assuming you think carbon dioxide is a pollutant. It's not global. Warming is a total hoax but assuming even believe that you're the assertion there. Is that just so you understand. The narrative is big companies bad socialism good good so who is promoted this carbon disclosure project and other Liberal Democrats who were out there touting this this these hundred companies are ruining the world. Let's be clear the narrative is that these corporations are bad and that show by implementing bigger government bigger government regulations. Yes bigger government would somehow fix this problem red flag on the field slope review that failed so oh jury field we gotta go under the Hood for review so nice job by resident fact Checker Palumbo match showed us this. This is Great Nice job. This is what his whole book by the way his book the bunk this which you all sent to the bestseller list which just came out a few weeks ago. This is what matchbook is about the bulking. All this nonsense picked up you. It's really against from the peace if they're diving into the carbon disclosure project's out so serious it became evident that our corporate polluters. There's are nowhere near as much of a problem as the government polluters remember. Ao C. wants more government of the top five biggest polluters again. That's assuming co two is pollution. It's not four our government run state owned enterprises with Exxon Mobil in fifth of the top fifty polluters orders which accounts for sixty three percent of global co two emissions twenty six are state-owned enterprises this gets even better so China which is is implementing the socialism model now China Coal tops the list Joe responsible for fourteen percent of all co two emissions on the entire higher point. I thought big government socialism like China was wonderful. Saudi Arabia Saudi Aramco is responsible for four point five percent ouch Russia the Democrats best friend Russia's Gazprom three point nine percent and the National Iranian Oil Company. Oh Bob his best friends two point three percent Exxon Mobil all of the largest private pollu- polluted but you get the he's responsible for two percent of the world's emissions folks. It's so easy Z. To debunk this nonsense understand on our principles do not the data tells the exact opposite story than the hapless. AOC THE OC. I mean Joe yes the Queen of the Queen of the cell phone. She sends out this information on her twitter account that it almost always contradicts the point. She's trying to get a cuss. She she stands for bigger government with Bernie Sanders a government takeover. The economy uses a study trying to show how the free market is awful and government has alternatives it is and what the study actually shows is that the government alternatives she wants you to believe is the solution is actually the problem. She's trying to sell if there was ever ever a better example of the broken leg and broken leg fallacy right that is it that the government breaks your leg and introduces more of the same problem that broke the legs solution for the broken leg. Just look it up. You'll see this is the perfect example. AOC AOC private companies bad polluting the actually the top four state owned enterprise not paid no attention to the verdict is in private companies are horrible. She doesn't understand her own data. You know I was on Fox and friends this week and again talking about this it actually excuse me. I was on judge Janine show because she's calling for the impeachment of the President to folks. It's just it's not get it. As I've said repeatedly won a seat in Congress congrats congrats grace. It's hard to do but now you have to actually know stuff and it's evident based on the litany of nonsense emanating from your the absurdities and your twitter feed. You just have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know if people are walking in and tweeting for you in your office. They're asking you to or if you're just sitting there on a Saturday night tweeting yourself but the stuff you're saying is not making the point you think it's making its making the opposite opposite point. This isn't hard all right folks. Thanks again for tuning in tomorrow or sometime this week. I'm not sure I will have a list of books. Book signings folks. I've been getting a lot of emails appreciate that my exonerated my second book on the spy gate scandal about the disastrous smaller probe and how they did this before which I think we're the only ones who are writing about this it's going to be this is going to create some waves in the press. It's coming out September twenty four so we're just a couple of weeks away now we will. I have four book signings. We have book a book review in Huntington New York Vero Beach Book Center. We have the Barnes and noble in Palm Beach Gardens and what was the other one the villages yeah we have one of the villages up in Florida. We will post those times up there. We'll get him out to this week. If any of YOU WANNA come out yeah. I got a couple of emails. People wanted the info. We'll get that on the show so we really appreciate your interest. Thanks for tuning subscribed to your YouTube Channel YouTube dot com slash Bongino and subscribe to our audio show at Apple Apple podcast Google podcasts wherever you get your podcast helps us move up the charts and it's always free. Thanks a lot folks. I'll see you just heard the Dan Bongino socio you can also get dance podcasts on Itunes soundcloud and follow Dan on twitter twenty four seven at Dbongino.

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"Support for boston. Public radio comes from spring consultant. Group offering employee benefits administration compliance communications and more for companies in need of hr assistance or working to reinforce their benefits program. Spring group dotcom ahead on boston public radio. Dennis whites legal lasted about thirty times longer day. Ten years police commissioner. Now that acting their kim genius fired him. Will she tap another commissioner next movie. But what does this mean for marty walsh. Gbh at city hall reporter sara. Winter smith joined us then. Sports authority trying to correct joins us on golfer. Jon rahm paying a multimillion dollar price for not getting vaccinated and more gender bias in the nc double a. Being exposed equities in our criminal justice system in our election process but the adaptations that we made to accommodate covert restrictions. Could be a blueprint for long term fixes. Cow road to the aclu to talk about how we can use this as an opportunity to not go back to the status quo. That more heaven boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Gp h listen to public radio. Eighty nine seven gp h. Good morning. jim either marjorie excellent so after a prolonged legal battle as you know yesterday acting their kim janey fired police commissioner for a day. Dennis white joining us to retrace the winding road that got us to this point and a look at what janey n. Whites next moves are a winter. Smith's recovers city hall for gbh news. Read thanks for joining us. Appreciate easy for me to say. Isn't it hey. Thanks panic to the show. I should say thank you very much for joining us. So is jim just said a mere janey fired boston police commissioner down white. So now what happens. Is she going to be able to acting mayor to pick a new commissioner. Who's going to be what happens to white. Give us the update. You know it's been so convoluted up until this point. And i think that white going to the courts kind of tempered genie's language around her next moves you'll recall that just about a month ago. When white i filed his court case in suffolk superior in that noticed to white janey listed her reasons she said. I'm going to fire you. An white said that. A police superintendent called him and said hey. I'm going to be the next person i think that. Because white's attorney in that initial filing said a hearing where a conclusion has already been reached is not much of a hearing at all since then. We've seen the acting mayor kind of track. She's maintain hints that the boston police department needs to move in a different direction but even yesterday at the press conference when she was asked directly about what her next steps were and one of the reporters mentioned. Hey we see multiple outlets reporting that superintendent nor baston will be the next cake. Jenny said i never said that. You're she wasn't very careful with us Unlike what she has the press comes with us the day before the and at the same time that she said she had open mind was gonna listen to what happened in the hour. Long hearing she then proceeded to talk about the process for selecting the next commissioner. Which sort of says it's a foregone conclusion. In the thing she wouldn't answer for us. We as repeatedly suray. Maybe she answered it yesterday. At least more directly was there's a legal debate about whether or not a an acting. Mayor has the power to appoint a permanent police commissioner. Anyway that she gave any hint as to whether or not i know she discussed the process. Did she discuss at all whether she thinks she has that power. Yeah no. we didn't hear anything about what she thinks are the limits or lack of limits on her power. I will say that. She's made cabinet appointments before. And i think when she was on with you all last week she said the police. Commissioner is the only cabinet official that requires is hearing and this notice and this 'cause And she's made appointments seemingly permanent appointments for cabinet officials before so i think if history is any indication of what she may do it. It hasn't stopped her from making appointments. The four so white is not going to go quietly. It appears i. I assume even though his lawyer said Were looking at every option He didn't say specifically they were gonna end up back in court but they're gonna end up back in court correct. They are going to end up back in court. I think late in the day whites attorney did a hint that he would try to modify the case that they had in suffolk superior court. He said they will make civil rights claims attached to that case jim. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if he's allowed to do that as of right. Or if a judge has to grant him permission to amend the case that he's already filed but you're right he's not going to go quietly and we're expecting that this will continue to drag on well. I'm so glad you mentioned this civil rights. I was unaware that he said it yesterday. Because what was striking to me. Was that the hearing part of what dennis white said. He opened his statement by saying. I'm a black man. And i'm paraphrasing. Essentially being railroaded. There's no process. This has been going on for centuries meaning to black men and yesterday right after. Kim janis decision mr carter. His lawyer said the exact same words my clients a black men etc is there and so it seems to me. Part of what they're contending is he was treated like this and fired in part because of the color of his skin. Have you spoken to anybody who thinks that anything that has happened to dennis. White from the mayor's office was racially motivated. No i haven't all of the establishment sort of power broker types that i've talked to have said why is really just a casualty of this reform pro reform climate right now I think that state rep russell homes and even in the case of seven mayoral candidates who shall woo. We heard them say that in a good world in a perfect world there would have already been betting and a commissioner. Dennis white either would have already had to address is domestic violence allegation his past or maybe whitten even have risen to the level of command staff But now as boston is looking towards reforming police personnel and reforming policy and reforming funding. That means that the way that the commissioner is chosen is also going to be looked at an amended. We're talking to sarai went to michika rec- hoffer. Gbh news right. I'm wondering this isn't city hall but it used to be city hall marnie white the former mayor. Marty walsh gives me the former former man he has. He has reiterated again this weekend that he did not know about the allegations involving jenness white Bill evans who was the commissioner with marty. Walsh said he didn't know about these allegations. what happens now with with with waltch and his his job. I think that that depends on what kind of case white ends up pursuing right. It'd be goes before a jury and a judge and they're calling witnesses and it devolves into more drama than it's possible that walsh could be called on to testify. You'll recall that. Rachel rawlins was on with you guys and said you know as an attorney she has to take very seriously someone sworn statements under pains of perjury vs someone to say. No that never happened but that could change. If a court case ended up developing and she was referencing willie gross former commissioners assertion. That marty walsh did no and the reason that's relevant for people trying to figure what's the difference. The argument that that whiten lawyer are gonna make or have made is if marty walsh didn't fact know about the domestic violence allegations at the time that he appointed him then it's at least according to them a lot harder for a for the successor at least the acting successor. To mayor walsh to fire firearm. So the bottom line is that this is not the end of the janey whiteside saga but yesterday is sort of of the new round seru. That's right that's right. It's a new chapter and just your point about what. Could happen with the relevance of walsh. Knowing i have spoken to a labor attorney who said not with specificity to this situation but that if an employer did know about things and an employee's personnel file at the time of their working and then suddenly they are fired with the reason that was known it does cast a bit of doubt on the employers given reason for the dismissal but that is not necessarily illegal. Sir thanks for taking the time to be with appreciate coverage of this. Yeah hey thanks so much for heavily. Me guys thank you. That was the voice of suray winter smith. She covers city hall for gbh news. You probably heard it on the news. Talking about this case Coming up we're gonna open the lines and asking you if you are losing. Trust in the state and local police as scandals pile off listened to eighty nine seventy ph boston public radio looking back to boston public radio. Jim brady and marjorie. And if you're doing in we're talking to gbh's serreyah. Winter smith about police commissioner. Dennis white getting fired yesterday. It's just one scandal sadly among others. There's the molestation charges against longtime police union head and cop. Patrick rose now this massive overtime fraud. We read about in the globe yesterday with the city. Cops state cops. They'd cops have their own overtime fraud issue we're taking your calls asking is always a cumulative effect on your trust and law enforcement and if it is what do we do about this. I mean it is not healthy for there to be this lack of trust than concern that there's corruption that the leaders are engaged in horrible things. Domestic violence child molestation again allegations at this stage. If if that trust connection is broken by the way this is on top. This is not a boston. This is national on the racial divide. That has been created After the the serial killings of mostly young black men but black women to buy cops across this country. How do we fix that relationship. And do you trust your local law enforcement. I mean bill. Evans us to tell us when something horrible happens in law enforcement could happen in minneapolis and saint. Louis it can happen in california. It trickles down onto every single police force. Even if it didn't happen there but a lot of bad things are happening. Right here ripen. Eath wanna know what your reaction is through at eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred nine seven again. This is not just for people live in boston. But for people within the sound of our voices who are hearing the taint that sadly is being visited on police forces because of the behavior of people like the alleged behavior of people like white. Patrick rose and these guys and women who think it's finest the'll wanna come over time we've been. We've been hearing all this year. How african americans have a much different view of the cops and might americans and african americans have long for good reason Been worried about the cops scared of cops telling their sons. Keep your hands wheel when the cops pull you over having the talk all those kinds of things and obviously white americans are suspicious for much different reasons because they are wondering if the police officer pull over is someone who has been cheating on his overtime. I mean that's basically what you which is thinking of child molester. Rose was allowed back out to hand. I know cases involving allege. Did you watch the obama interview on cnn last night. But there is a couple of moving segments were obama's been working with some young black kids now young black men will some of them are still kids in chicago and he asked him about the police. Former president obama. There was a guy who talks about how he took a circuitous route to get to Either i think it was school because he was so scared of the cops he would say to his mother wife or somebody assist there. He was worried they wouldn't become an. I mean every single one of them telling the same kind of story so for a whole variety of reasons. That relationship is broken. And we want to know if you're feeling it and if you have a way to begin fix let's go to john j p your first on boston public radio. Thank you for calling hi mark. Hey So i just i just like to say on the criminal defense lawyer. Oh and i've met an awful lot of boston. Police officers and some of them Including my neighbors are And have been excellent and conscientious and they probably don't get recognized for what they What they do every day on the other hand. There's a problem with the way in which officers get recruited and the recruitment replicates whenever the problems are and unfortunately there are lawyers. I'm sorry it's police officers who abused the time System in particular you know police officers can go to be there for five minutes. Yeah contracts requires them to be paid. I think it's four hours. Then they can run off into a detail and basically be paid for not being being taken with the same hours And that is an abused system. And it's a system that you know i as a taxpayer. I have to pay these bills. And i'm wondering why am i paying all these bills. It's ridiculous and so seeing officers who were making Three hundred thousand dollars a year It just seems like this to be a better system. We know what. I've also wanted to bat john to who decides who gets the overtime deals and the details and and is there a pecking order. And i said yes. Exactly and that that inhibits perhaps other officers ability to be honest about what their colleagues may be doing. Because you don't wanna lose those details and over my very very lucrative and a chance to make an extra twenty grand a year if you don't if you look the other way you know. I think we know where that leads don't we. I think the problem also has to do with who who gets who takes cases and brings them to court so that there is a motivation to go to court enter earn that overtime in court and in i've had a police detective or longtime ago in cambridge. Say to me when we caught a kid who did something wrong we might give him a kick in the pants and tell them not to do it again and they go home and he said to me but now you're getting paid overtime. Kids gonna get arrested. They're gonna get a record and the case is going to get strung out and strung out repeated trips to court and just the you know the cash register that keeps on going. Well maybe we're going to talk about this later in the show. Maybe zoom is the answer to that by the way john. Thank you for your call. I know you're concerned deeply about with john talked about you. Talk to me about it for years. You'll mind deeper concern. Is that needs fixing. Is this so called blue. Wall of silence kind of thing. Every time we talk about the cops of late all. I can think back on his report of this kaplan woman who did the white investigation. She approached the twenty one people. Most of whom were cops. Fourteen of them refused to speak to her about dennis white. And by the way if you wanna if you wanna including the current commissioner the guy. That's the interim commissioner one of the ones that would refuse. Is that true. I'm not. I didn't know that was true. But but We lost my train of thought. I'm sorry they refused to speak right. Which is in by the way if it turns out you wanna talk. And say hey. That's why did nothing. He's fabulous guy. That's fine lack of cooperation totally breeds mistrust than it seems to me that if good cops is john the color of the lawyer said a minute ago there are a lot of good cops and of course there are the way to prove your good cops is you have to out your colleagues who are bad cops and if you're gonna cover for him that everybody gets painted with the same brush frankin boston. Welcome to the show. Hi hi how are you doing right. i for two or three years. Now i've been trying to get the police to investigate cry. A certain crime and i was referred to Took a while to get. The help is referred to district four in boston some detectives. They're they seem to believe me. You know they'd ask me questions i don't. This is great. And then all of a sudden i would not hear from them anymore. You know it was. There was no reason given like oh. We don't believe you or it's too complicated to investigate. So what do you think is going on. I wish i knew. And i and that was one detective and then so i said well i'll try another had some additional details about the crime and I give to the society different detector. The same thing is just it. You know they show initial enthusiasm for investigating and then after a short period. Nothing no explanation. Why nothing it was. just nothing. Well you know. I feel i have an obligation. I'm not belittling in any way with frank. Would you just experienced. But i feel an obligation particularly in light of the fact. You mentioned greg long a minute ago. I just had a encounter with the cambridge in boston. Police were every reaction. Was terrific and timely. So i mean. I'm not obviously you experienced what you experienced. But there are other stories through frank. Thank you for your call. We are aware that you are giradi. Okay fine eight. Seven seven three zero one thousand nine said can i say. We don't much time for this but i want to reiterate what i said before the most important problem to address. Maybe the most intractable problem. The people who know best who the bad cops are who are giving cops. A bad name are their fellow. Cops they have gotta figure out a way to decide that it is not a crime and i don't mean that literally. Well maybe i do me literary that. It is not a violation of some horrible oath to expose wrongdoing in your ranks. When you see it in fact it's the best way to win rank and restore public. Trust certain say when you find out what happens. We know the genesis white case we talked about how the woman that was the domestic violence police officer investigating. This was retaliate. Roy signed so if that's going to go on the other thing is there's this unholy alliance between politicians and police unions that i think is very harmful to To what happens in as you always point out unions get what they want negotiations with someone who agrees on the other side of that to that point of view. And i think they just have to get a lot tougher tom. I would do something. This wasn't even the cops. This is a firefighters. Remember when he didn't likes the firefighters union didn't like something he did. They were down getting in front of the state of the city address. I mean i think there has to be possible. Well i think pot have tougher. They have to be much much tougher. That's got to be critical as this mayoral race goes ahead on the heels of rose and white and the overtime scandals and and the cop who bragged about driving his car into a protester then as quietly restored to the force. Whatever a month or two later this has got to be a central issue in this merrill. The people said that they do not want to support the candidate. That has the endorsement of the boston. Police use some and they're probably candidates who wouldn't want to support someone statewide. Who has the support of the state police union. Because you think well what does that mean what. What is what was the agreement there with between that politician. That union to get the endorsement of that union and whether it's republican governor or a democratic governor. They've wanted that not everybody. Feels that way margin. You feel that way but not everybody feels no. Everybody feels that way. But all i'm saying is that there's some people who come forward and say in their always take do not. They're not keen. And i don't think they have to worry about it. Too much not going to get the tourists with boston. Police dramas association but anyway We are talking in just a couple of minutes with tranquil. Eric are sports. Authorities here to go to the latest sports headlines. John eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady and join us alarm clock through latest headlines about sports and societies because their trainings and anchor and reporter for nbc. Sports boston a b. pr contributor and. She thinks she's going to the olympics on a couple of months. Welcome trying to go to talk to you. Sorry to break. Steve jim but i know i'm going okay. Sismi been told pretty even pretty with like definitely that this is happening well and it's really. It's just a few weeks our six weeks seven weeks. Yeah we're like six weeks okay. I mean jeff. As i've explained that you before it is like it's not like we're going to tokyo and i'm going to disney at tokyo and to get a bunch of restaurants and i'm riding on the train and it's a different scenario. We had a safety training the other day. And quite frankly it's gonna be kind of like it's not going to be a fun. Like lay hardy great experience like i have been told that we have to be tested and we can't get tested like how i've been tested a few times of since cases have gone down here and it was lovely because they no longer stick those long like nasal for land. Joel now long cue tips up your nose. Well that's required by the japanese government Twice before you even get there. We're told that once we land our process they will take two to four hours of testing quarantine going through everything being bubbled and separated from their. We're going you get into it. And at nbc marked vehicle you go to an nbc hotel. We are not allowed to leave our hotel except to eat and the hotel which is all nbc employees. Most of whom have been vaccinated. And i will be tested daily. Because i am in contact with athletes. I will be able to go to the venue where there will be sued available. I will be because i'm in constant contact with athletes. I will be mask at all times. i there are. We know gym's open. You are not to walk outside. You're not to run outside. You are not to take public transportation anywhere like it bubble which they've done in sports time and time and time again and i know but the japanese people don't want it and i it's it's unfortunate that it's come to this but i i would be blown away if all of the sudden a week or two from now they pull the game athletes there. It sounds like you're going to say that on tuesday. They're going to waterboard away. It's stay on the stay on this for one second that the story john powers has been covering the olympics. I think about three hundred years for the globe and doing a wonderfully well wrote this. Great piece molly marathoner and you just the opening paragraph. It's exactly like you said no. I won't even see tokyo. Be residing and competing more than five hundred miles north and sapporo. She will live in a five ring. Bubble compete at seven am on a sunday head home within two days. No opening ceremonies know. Touristy stuff you know. I don't want to belabor this because we talk about it almost every single week but the olympics is a big deal. And you know while i d- i wish they weren't doing it but for the athletes sake. I'm glad they'll get to compete. But is someone who who all your work is with athletes. Isn't this a huge part of going to the olympics. Being able to be part of this community that that none of these people are going to be able to be one hundred percent right. Like if it's like an jim to how unfortunate if you were a freshman in college straightness or a c. In high school or a senior in college all of the literal and figurative pomp and circumstance that goes along with anything that is a monumental milestone in your life thinking about people who were planning on having merger you. Your daughter was supposed to get married. I don't know how big original wedding was supposed to be how small it ended up twenty people and there lot you know there are a lot of people who had invited one hundred seventy five and had twenty or ten like bats to me though. I'm an athlete like i said this. Before if nbc. Call me tomorrow and said we're pulling all reporters. I'm really sorry you can't go. The athletes are so going to compete. But we're just. I wouldn't be up in arms about that wouldn't be furious. I'd be like cool. At least the athletes set to go to me have trained so hard for so long an extra year and they can't people keep saying we'll just postpone it just postpone it. You cannot postpone it again because we're already a year into the next olympic cycle so if we could possibly have if all things go as planned. There will be an olympics in tokyo in july slash. August twenty twenty one. There will be a winter olympics in beijing. A february twenty twenty two and there will be another summer olympics. I believe the next one is an heiress in twenty twenty four so you it's not like you can keep pushing this back in. It's just something simple you know. It's not like you can get a refund. You know these athletes many of them are aging. I mean i don't know how much longer simone biles you guys watch jacome believable pretty good twenty four. He's talked about how what she. She contemplated not going to tokyo because she was such a depressing. Moment molly sidell talks about the depression that followed they. Cancel these games. Like and i understand that like it's hard some people would rather than go on people really think that there are other people in the camp of who cares do it. I'm sort of more in the middle of. Let's find a way to to hold these games. That are safe enough for the athletes and that can allow them to achieve their dreams because it is so difficult. And yes like molly said al. I to will be leaving. The my event ends on sunday. August i i am unlike the literal first whiteout odd monday august doing pills go no collect two hundred dollars and i have no idea what that's going to look like so i usually do my interviews like on the court in a mixim but i have a feeling that i will have a bike. The athlete will probably have like a headset. I'll have a mask on. Even if i'm not close to them they will not. I will interview them in this weird sort of alternate universe. It's not going to be like anything else that we've ever seen before but i really truly believe doing everything we possibly can for the athletes to make sure the game solid eric. Tell us about the nfl this this. They're going to haul supposedly race nor ming little thing that in terms of his brain injury claims that they assumed the black players started out with cognitive function than white player. So tell us what they've decided about this. So this is something that You know has unfortunately been in practice for a long time of standards were originally created in nineteen ninety But the nfl in this all comes back by the way to brain injury and concussion right so there is a billion dollar lawsuit and settlement brain injury claims for former players who who rightly claim that the nfl kept trotting out there. Knowing the long term effects of concussions suffered on the football field so when they have now they have this billion dollar settlement and that settlement gets divided among a number of players who have filed and one suits but in order to win your suit. Basically you're a tier. Like how bad did we damage your brain. Mike so bad that you have early onset dementia or alzheimer's or not so bad because you just can't go into a room full of light which i'm obviously being sarcastic And so based on that scale is the amount of money you got but they they tested players on cognitive functioning and the scale that the nfl used was a use of race nor ming which automatically gave white players a higher settlement because according to this scale white players are more intelligent then black players so their cognitive scores would automatically start higher and then there would be a more precipitous drop whereas black players according to race more are less intelligent and would start lower on the scale and so many of them would never even have a big enough falloff to get the money and it's just disgusting. It's gotten so it's not that much. I am so glad you said. I was just about say. Maybe we should be asking. Emily rooney this question not you but you're here and you're in the middle of this. This should be a front page new york times story. This is one of the grossest contemporary examples of racism and are rich organization supported by virtually all of america. It is unbelievable. It's unbelievable and the fact that they know they say that from. Ap article that the norms were developed in medicine to stop biased and testing not perpetrate. It i mean but how does it make sense to me right. And god bless the women that do you know who started. His lawsuit was the wiser. No there who were just dedicated from the beginning and saying look at the deterioration of my husband who can't even fight for himself. Like i am not like the women really came together this and fought for them to get equal treatment. But it's just gross and it's disgusting. I actually i you know i. I didn't realize until i read this. That one of the one of the one of the People in this lawsuit is davenport. Like he played for the packers. I remember ashley davenport. I remember when he played for the packers and steelers and covered him albeit briefly and to know that he has suffered through. All of this has had to basically say you beat my brain in and kept trotting out there weakened and week out. And now you're telling me. I don't get a settlement because you don't think i'm as smart as my white teammates. Who got money like. It does fasting and the fact that just the fact that it continues to happen in the nfl somehow whitewashes over it literally. is is really gross. And i feel like. I'm partially to blame that. This has got more media coverage because i've only talked about in here i have show i o okay. We're talking to our sports authority to keep talking to her after. This quick break listened to eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. We're talking to try there by the way. I'm jim brady and cheese. Margarine forgot who we were for a second. The conversation continues with tranny. So trying to cause nerik there. Can you hear me boost your ego. Can i boost your ego a little sure ahead. Of course every time. I go somewhere someone says. Oh my gosh. It's so nights to see your face and put it with a voice. Because i love jim and marjorie. Dog makes us very happy because nerik beveren loves you guys including me. Thank you very much to you last this. How about you or possibly on the verge of winning sucrose two million dollars point seven one point seven points deaths five. I think both whatever it's over a million dollars and you didn't win it because you didn't get vaccinated and you caught. Cove it on the golf course. Tell us about this guy. Jon rahm who must be ready to shoot himself in the head while woody. I don't know maybe he thinks that it's better than having a five g chip inside of him. I share john. Ron john trump things but so this is what happened for those of you. Don't follow jon. Rahm is a spanish golfer who resides in arizona He by the way has been eligible to be vaccinated since mid-march in arizona Now we don't know for sure that he has not gotten vaccinated. We should point that out. There is a possibility that jon rahm got his first shot or his second shot a week ago and just is fully vaccinated. What did he say. Why didn't he say my attitude is an athlete refuses to answer at means. They weren't vaccinated. Is that a fair rule of them. That's a fair assessment matt's he's probably not vaccinated and has chosen tanaka vaccinated. But i'm trying to be joe journalistic integrity here. So if you don't have that have no. You're not fully vaccinated you have to if you're exposed to it. You have to get tested. Every single danger tested much more frequently than fully vaccinated player. Jon rahm goes to the memorial It's actually it's for non major the pretty major golf tournaments. It's in ohio. Does he has a six shot. Lead on saturday almost assured to win the whole thing and he walks off the eighteen on television on saturday and the doctor comes up and you see him hang his head in his knees and puts his just out of like just sheer surprise. And you think something really terrible's happened but it's thought he has found out that he tested positive for covid and he has to immediately remove himself in contention and from the tournament he can no longer play because not yesterday quarantine and you know what i say too bad so sad catch honestly like everyone's on so devastated his guy feel so bad for really because he could have in his homestate already gotten vaccinated months ago. Something that many of us were clamoring for and it has been available to you since mid march and you chose natural so guess what that's fine. I'm i'm on my body choice. Dow go ahead. that's fine. Do what you want but then you get to suffer the consequences. I am not feeling bad for you. A men i should say agree with every single work and by the way i just wanna be clear since you said you were being journalistically responsible. Let me be semi responsible. One of the reasons we know. I use that term in quotes that he wasn't vaccinated is not because he refused to answer which to me is a dead giveaway but also as you intimated a minute go training. Because there is the rules of testing are totally different. If you have been vaccinated and the pga tour and even a spokesperson while they wouldn't say whether he'd been vaccinated or not acknowledged that the testing that he had encountered that week would not have happened where he vaccinated player on the tour. So i am with you. He chose not to do it. And now he's marjorie hoisted on his own petard. That is bad that you lost all that money. Guess what knocking jabari arm. That's free one. Point six million so great piece at times. Trump is narrow talking about differences between men and women's college sports massages for men doubleheaders for women. Tell us what this David lionheart of peace talks about. Yeah this is great. I love the new york times the morning roundup of all the news and they always have one big story every day. This was the big story. I believe friday so right now. The women's college softball words world series is taking place. it's an home city the men baseball men's baseball acquit. One is always held an omaha nebraska. both are massively popular television events. Both frigging money to the city. Both should be equal. But as you might imagine they are not as marjorie alluded to the headline was massages versus doubleheaders. So not only do women have to not only are like massages and banquet tables and all these things offered to the mail baseball athletes. The women athletes the stadium hosts a championship has no shower some blue. So they have to go shower. Imagine how big its swampy here last couple days like this is oklahoma from like made october. I cool in oklahoma city right now. They have to play twice on the same day. Which the men's team never have to do. They usually just play a regular baseball series that increases the risk of injury and the ncwa Said that they prefer the condense scheduled to hold down hotel and meals. Cough meal costs the men's college world series. They get off days ago. A golf outing free massage day. Celebratory dinner for coaches players and dozens of yet. It's you know instead of members of congress than state legislators trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist by banning trans girls in from sports. Why doesn't this pathetic. Congress address the gender bias in the nc double eight by the way everybody listening. You're right everybody listening. I am sure. And if you didn't you should google it right now. So the incredible video. We talked To turn about maybe a month ago in sedona prince. Who was this great baseball player from a great player. She's a great person. From university of oregon. Put out where. She showed the video of the training facilities for the men's a man in the ncwa basketball championship versus the women. And the women For those that don't recall was like literally you know four dollars worth of waged target exactly is comp- as opposed to this huge thing. It is grotesque and by the way for those saying. Well you touch on this women's softball not nearly as much revenue. That's true the audience as you said is comparable low one million. It's huge. Yeah i've got. I've got the numbers right here. The women's softball world series had one point zero five million viewers the men's college baseball world series at one point three million viewers so almost its approach so they bring in the same amount of television revenue and interest. And even if you want to go more to gates like how many people they can get into the stadium so the oklahoma stadium only has a capacity of three thousand compared thirteen thousand compared to twenty four thousand in omaha but they constantly have a wait list for softball. Today they can easily match the gates that the men match they just choose to not put them in a bigger stadium journey. Kushner great talk to as always thank you so much on accused. Exactly thanks trendy trainees and anchoring and reporter for nbc sports boston. It'd be pr contributor but can no for people who have daughters i. It is really foul coming up. What lessons can we take away from the pandemic when it comes to improving civil liberties. The aclu's cal rose joints for that more next eighty nine seven gbh. Boston public radio. Boston public radio trying to gain. The gaming industry backfired for separate krumlov. Former chair of the tribe was indicted for his. Let's role bribery scheme involving the tribes plans to go casino now. Brian moskvichov weeden. He's the youngest person to hold. The decision of tribal council chair is determined to restore integrity to the tribe after years of political scandals and financial struggle. Then we'll take your calls on how working an engaging from home may not be all that it's cracked up. The democrats are trying to figure out a way. Forward on buys agenda joe. Manchin has proved himself to be an obstacle with his bipartisan. Ultimatum compounded by his dashing. Any hopes of ending the filibuster c. n. n.'s. John king. george talks about that. Kamala harris push on immigration reform plus trump's enduring whole the republicans and how it's playing out in local elections that moore's ahead lost both radio. Eighty nine seven. Gp h much or you can listen to the radio. Eighty seven gp h loc- and jim logan marjorie so covert is exposed the injustices and inequities in our society from the disparities in our healthcare charger. Coney in prison system to election process. That doesn't exactly promote democracy to accommodate. Kobe restrictions state adopted some work arounds made things more equitable cow rose the executive director the civil liberties union of massachusetts says we have an opportunity to not revert to the status quo of inequities. She joins us online. Talk about this and more carole. Go to talk to me here. Hi cara cara earlier. This morning we're talking with one of our reporters here about the situation with the Dennis white the now fired. Just a couple of days appointed commissioner new commissioner of the boston police department We want to move to another issue involving policing and the city of boston. The story about surveillance cameras. There was supposed to be extensive network of surveillance surveillance cameras that has been proposed. A kim. johnny is fired as i. Just said the Commissioner she doesn't want these ext cameras to be extended. What's going on here story. Dig boston story. That revealed for the first time that the city of boston quietly seeking bids For a company that would pull together a vast surveillance across the reason. I'm more than a thousand cameras That we sort of linked together nine greater boston municipalities all the able to access each other And so this request for proposals was actually released by the city. On april fifth and the deadlines last wednesday So when the story came out and and the aclu and other civil rights groups serve raised the alarm about it We're really pleased to see the press. Pause undertaking a look at it and we hope that the either their jamie will either just this bad idea or at a minimum We'll wait until a new proposal. That's in front of the city. Council is house that she actually championed in on the city council de required to have more public participation in public conversation. About what kind of surveillance would need. You know the thing. I don't understand a about objecting to the for lack of better expression. The coordination of cameras in boston eight. I don't know if it's eight or nine surrounding communities. If there's a problem with that which you have an acting mayor janey seems to have. Isn't the real problem. With the fact that there are cameras there to begin with not just. The coordination is isn't that the underlying issue now so now. I understand what you're saying. Cameras on themselves. You know might be useful to at a post criminal investigation or something. What the concern is when you have a real time network of cameras that can track people wherever they go in real time without any kind of warrants or other kinds of checks and balances. You really have a danger of an ability to just Track all of us wherever we go in real time including to protest rally or our therapy session or or you know alcoholics anonymous session or our medical appointment. I'm and so what you really wanna make sure before you have something. That's a network real time tracking mechanism. you would have some checks and balances in place to ensure that it isn't abuse You don't want people talking there ex wives or something but one last thing. I'm sorry to be thick as a brick here if you're aa meeting the protests meeting you're going to and your medical appointment are all in boston. They're going to be able to track you in boston. Going every single place you go. The only thing that this pause the janey is imposed prevents is if one of those things is across the border in cambridge. The boston police can't see you going near medical appointment over the charles but was on this side of the charles. They can write a europe. Can you share your. I mean you're right. I think we need to have checks and balances on any kind of surveillance. Don't recall the time and that's something that aclu pushes for all the time the districts that even broader so that You know somebody in brooklyn contract somebody over in chelsea and you know all the time and again you wanna make sure that you have some kind of checks and balances in place. So these aren't abused For people to you know. Track their ex girlfriends or boyfriends sources. You know fi on their children or their neighbors or whatever it is they might use look of misuses. You could imagine taking place when you just have a secret surveillance tracking system that the public doesn't even know about so that's why we're pushing for is that we have a public conversation sort of considered citizen control of police surveillance. We can make a decision in a democracy about how much and what type of surveillance are willing to live with so just want to be clear about what the us position here is. Do not necessarily opposed to surveillance cameras but you are opposed to to not having transparency around. How the used right and we also are opposed to having real time tracking wherever you go all the time like that right now. Computers are so fast and microchips are so small that you could trust everybody wherever they go all the time right. You don't wanna live in that kind of a total surveillance. Society says a surveillance camera. A crime takes place and say gee. Can i get that. Atm surveillance camera. Because the crimes the key to this really is. If you're planning on slink. Around like you think i do all the time. Yeah i should do it outside. But here's the thing is that i think there is an appeal to these as obviously. That's how we caught the marathon guys as quick as we did but she's not opposing com. Can i just finished my question please. I wanna know how you. Because i think there is a public appeal. There was a rape case in brooklyn at two o'clock in the morning where they had the guy's truck on camera. So i think that has a crime fighting a po. So where's the balance. Here the brooklyn cops can start moving. Yep trained them and the other thing is. There's kind of a misconception out there that somehow things like surveillance tracking and surveillance helped to catch the marathon bombers. That's an urban myth. That's not true it's just simply it's just not true That's not how they recall but even if there are it wasn't elaborate on that i am committed. How how were they caught because that was widely. Their faces were widely projected all over the place camera. That was the product camera right. It was no. That's not actually how they were caught. They were pictures that were shown to the public and members of the public came forward. That's different than using things like face. Recognition technology or face surveillance to track people in real time But there are circumstances marjorie to your point where it might be useful. And in those circumstances we need things of like warrant requirement or in real time you can have a warrant requirement exigent circumstances if there's a crime in the process of being committed And so you know. Our legal system is really good at coming up with systems and checks and balances And that's really minimum what we're asking for with this. Rsp okay. so i just want to be clear. So in the case of the the red truck. That was found surveillance and was driven by a guy who raped a woman that would still be admissible and or what would be the would be the the protections around that right. I mean. I think that's the situation. Where if you have a real time crime. In the midst of being committed you might be able to suspend having warrant requirement. You get the warrant. After the fact i mean. That's true for all the time already today. That's just status both okay That's different than when you have an ability to try people and there is no work requirement and there is no check and balance at all and the whole thing is done secretly. That's where you worry about. The potential for abuse so with the aclu look for is is a check and balance over the uses technology to make sure that his he to keep us safe but not to deprive us of liberty just before we leave. This should be clear. Johnny hasn't put the kabosh on this. She's put a pause on yes and we will see where it goes from there. We're talking to cow. Rosetta the simpler brazilian of massachusetts. In my introduction you caroline the pc road for commonwealth of the title of which was we need a new post pandemic normal of. What'd you say. well you know. I think that there are a lot of things that we learned from. The pandemic one of them is that things weren't that wonderful of ahead of time when we looked at the inequities and inequalities in our society. But there are a lot of new things that we benefited from that we learned from one of the big ones is that we saw a greater participation in our democracy when people are able to attend things like town meeting remotely And so that's why the aclu testified last week In support of bill that has been filed by representatives. These scare lick senator. Jason lewis That basically say that all public meetings has to include adequate alternative means of public access at no cost so that people can participate in real time remotely So continue to make zoom available because we found out that really increases participation in democracy. And that's maybe one of the rare still because before you leave that usa us those say the word include meaning there would still be a requirement for in person. Meetings is just if you could make it to the meeting. You'd have access to the. Is that correct. That's right yeah it'll be an in person meeting for the public officials. They should be able to show her face to face the people they represent But you know it's interesting Salem mayor kim driscoll she actually testified in the hearing that the film's theme is seven hundred percent increase in public attendance. That there's been meetings during the pandemic. i think when people realize they don't have to get childcare or transportation all the things and they can participate in their democracy That they're willing to do so. And so i think that's one of the rare as love. This coming out of the pen is by the way i i. I worry that people are listening to this though. Are saying this is a no brainer. It's going to pass that a minute. The reason it's not gonna pass in a minute necessarily is as we've said a thousand times. We have the least transparent. Yeah government in the united states of america and for those who think that's hyperbole. Let me repeat the brilliant reporting by todd wallich when he was at the globe. We're the only state the only state that protects information in all three branches The way we do here in so Great idea but the assume it's a no brainer. I agree with you jonathan. It's an o'brien on the weak people need to let their elected officials now that they want us. And you know. I think a call to your state legislator or call to the governor saying that they want that you walk this. This is good for democracy. I think it's good for democracy. It is it's great tomography to see your public officials in action. I couldn't agree more. We're talking to the us. Carol rose go to a city council. Meeting your pajamas. That is my dream. I should say your hobby when you retire. You're going to be watching all municipal meetings. I think it's great fun. The comments continues coward. Be right back going to take a break. We'll be right back on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brodie madrid. If you're tuning in we're talking to cow row. She's the head of the civil liberties union of massachusetts count. You mentioned obviously the More of us being able to engage in meetings in your cometh magazine piece. Great piece by the way about. Don't need to go back to get rid of everything we've got during the post pandemic during the during the pandemic anyway tells that she talked about so there were two other things that both i think are important. Democracy one is voting rights as the others racial equity in terms of voting rights. We're seeing in reading about you. Know places like georgia and florida texas in iowa all these state legislatures that are trying to push input on greater voting restrictions. And it makes me so proud to just know that here in massachusetts our legislature is looking at a bill called both act which was filed by representative john. Lewis senators. Cynthia crane And this the vote's asked to do that would make things that we learned during the pandemic things like vote by mail and early in person voting permanent But allow things like same day voter registration And it sure you know audit to enhance public confidence in the elections. So i think it's so important that we learn the good lessons learned from that we can burn The voting system in our democracy in a way that permits more people to vote And it's particularly important to do it at a time when other states are really going in the wrong direction And then a couple of other things that we really learned about from the pandemic Was at racial disparities that we see in health care and our car several system where we lock people up Really problematic and they don't keep us safe and they don't keep us free and we need to end it You know the aclu along with other civil rights groups actually Filed suit During the pandemic to make sure that people who locked up who are liberty is taken away by. The state are able to get access to testing and treatments and vaccinations Many of them before we had anything like that. We're able to be released. More than four thousand people were released in. The vast majority were only incarcerated because they couldn't afford bail they're still they haven't been proven guilty of anything they just simply were too poor to make bill And what we found in in a nationwide study that included boston By the national. Aclu is that crime rates. actually over lower It despite the fact that people were being released from prison. So i think it's really important that we begin to burden deep lessons that we need to take a public health approach to the systems. That are are troubling us. They're trying to incarcerate prosser at our way to safety simply doesn't work And there are ways to do things in that we. It's incumbent upon all of us now to embrace those lessons of covid and to do the right thing. we're talking to a cow rosiak carol. You mentioned voting rights here. Let's spend a couple minutes on the topic. That is i think is everybody in. America has been talking about since. Joe manchin rotas piece in his home state newspaper. The other day saying he would not vote for the broader voting rights. Bill would support the john. Lewis act and you know rather than debating is. We've done ad nauseam here. What we lose by not having that the the the larger bill passed. I was looking into this john lewis thing last night and in great part. Please correct me anywhere. Where i'm wrong here is we've talked to you before about the shelby case. In which essentially the voting rights act was gutted by getting this requirement that voting areas. That have a racist history needed pre clearance from the justice department before putting in any new election rules. That's gone what the john lewis akwa do is restore that. But but from what. I understand john. Mansion would go far further and say that pre-clearance is needed not just in those jurisdictions with a racist history vis-a-vis voting but in all fifty states and mike quick. Read on this. Unless you disabuse me this and this is not the forgive. His his his decision on the larger voting rights act. This is a terrific thing is it is it not makes the john lewis bill even better than the john lewis. Bill no now. I think it's and particularly jim. I think what we've learned so the before shelby. This bad decision shelby that took away the pre-clearance requirement that pre clearance requirement was only required states. That sort of had a history of suppressing the vote. But now what we're seeing is in a lot of states in places like iowa wisconsin places that wouldn't have fallen for the pre clearance before now putting in voter suppression bills So sadly as the voter suppression becomes more widespread across the country. We need more widespread protections. And i think having your pre clearance requirements makes a lot of stuff For all fifty states because racism isn't confined to the south. And we know that in the. Let me just expand on this minute. Because i'm sort of embarrassed. That i had spent such little time focused on what mansions position was on this john. Lewis act if the john lewis act as expanded in the way that senator manchin would like it to be expanded. had been the law. Eight months ago virtually every not virtually every single one of these voter suppression measures that became law on the roughly. A dozen republican led states would have had to been approved by the justice department prior to them being enacted. Is that not right. you know. that's exactly right jim. And that's why it's so important because currently under the law if we don't pass this bill so you're right can vote can be violated but and you can go to court afterwards. And say hey. My rights left. November were violates. But you don't get the vote you still don't get your vote counts right. So you lose your franchise when you have a pre clearance requirement which is what the voting rights act has had for decades and has worked really really well Win a state puts in restrictions tries to suppress the vote they i have to get pre clearance or authorization or not in order to do that and hopefully they wouldn't get it. Because in a democracy the right to vote is the most modal the most fundamental of the rights that we have these efforts to take away. The right to vote aren't just an attack on certain people which of course they are but they're also an attack on our democracy itself And you know we may for anybody. Who's reading freely. Because we survived the january six insurrection. You know we are just we are still on the edge of the and these efforts to suppress the vote threatens to take over the this once again so i certainly hope that this bill passes And that we begin to restore the basic system of democracy and the right to vote. That are still under threat in america. Today we're talking to carol rose from the aclu massachusetts carol the us attorney for massachusetts andrew allowing his found pretty. Yeah the former guys pretty devastating in a tweet investigations and says found horrible mental health Lack of care in our department corrections. Toss so i mean the the again. The aclu was pushing for finding different approach. We have learned that when we d a de institutionalization the mental hospital. Back in the sixties and seventies. We didn't create an alternative and so as a result of vast majority of people who are in the criminal legal system. Who are incarcerated are there. They're suffering from mental health problems or substance use disorder problems And not being able to get the treatment that they need. The vast majority of people return to our community to our society. If we truly want to be safe than how we need to rethink what we mean by public safety and investing in public health services investing in substance use disorder treatment. And things like that. Not only just that help. The astros human beings and their families and their children but returns into our society and keeps all of us safer And so the aclu has really been pushing on making sure that we re mansion public safety by taking reinvesting in things like mental health services substance use disorder services and job training all sorts of things so the people can return to their families into our society That's better for everyone. And we've learned those lessons Know the war on drugs sales We know that now But that we have opportunity now and the findings that are coming out about the lack of ability of our criminal system to provide mental health services. Then we know that that's not the way to go. That's what they're trained to do. Like we can do better and now we have an opportunity to do better this story. We came on a while ago that this investigation that found these these mental health watches. It was supposed to be only for four days and went on for dozens of days and in some cases are many more than that. So is something happening now in the prisons were released after releases investigation to something change or was well. I think there's a lot of work going on along these lines. I mean there are a lot of wrongful. Death suits that are being filed. Now that we can look to these reports that come out. I think that there You know just by way of comparison was also a federal department of justice report on springfield police department And the years and years of abuse of people that happened by the springfield police. And then we're we've the has filed a lawsuit asking what did the what did the prosecutors do did. They not tell the criminal defense attorneys. What was happening. are those cases. Sort of like the drug lab scandals. All for seventy five thousand cases had to be vacated. Do we have another problem of systemic abuse that has led to the wrongful convictions of people and the wrongful death of people in incarceration You know the more these stories come out. The more the losses come out the more we have the fodder for finding alternatives and passing laws in the legislature getting financing the court so that we can use the law to create a more just system And frankly in doing so. It's not just it's actually make us more safe thank you. Carol rose choices. Every month she's executive director of the aclu of massachusetts coming up new leadership for the warnock trod. That conversation is next on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio talk about the boston public radio. I'm jim brady. She's madria the mashpee. Watanabe have been in a fight for their land for over four hundred years. Twenty eight year. Old brian moskva weeden has been charged with protecting it for future generations. Last month won a four person race to become the new chair of the mashpee woman on tribal council the former chairman. Cedric cromwell was removed from his post after he was indicted for his literal bribery scheme involving the tribes plans to build a casino in taunton. Brian weeden is the youngest person to hold the position of tribal council. Cherry round on the message of healing and uniting tribe. He joins us to talk about how he plans to do that. Chen weeden pleasure to have you here. Thanks so much done. Thank you when niki suck good day until you you too. But i'm just curious before we start. We know a lot of twenty eight year olds and they're not not nearly as engaged in in civic endeavors. And in helping out the people as you are. Why did you want this you having a wild time now. Why do you want this odd. I wanted this job. Because i seen the need for leadership while we've had too many politicians and so on and so forth in our community in I seen the need for leadership for change. I've always been about the youth and protecting it. Just like dr did amon generations before us. And that's what i'm here to do on my also have a child on the way slats even pushing the. Get things right around here. Congratulations speaking of getting things right around here. This sort of hearkens back margin. I've talked about this forever. There were three felonious speakers of the massachusetts house in a row. And then bob deleo came and luckily we broke the string to predecessors ago before you pled guilty convicted felon the kurt the your immediate predecessors i mentioned is under indictment how do you restore trust and integrity and convince people that that's not the road that will be continued down that started slip the community on. It's the community that needs to heal. It's the community that's been affected by on these bad acts for so long on. I think that one of the problems with our former leadership was a disconnect between them and the people in not listening to the people on. That's something that we plan on restoring through Listening to our clan mothers are spiritual leaders are. Chief are medicine men You know all of our elders on nestle where you know trying to do with restoring the integrity of the tribe and you know just leading from your heart as long as you leave from your heart and you have good intentions. Then everything will be good in working on. Transparency is key in this administration to make sure we rebuild that trust with our nation. One of the things. We've been hearing when you hear about the wapping tribe of course for years. Now we've been hearing about this casino. So wh what is happening with the casino that seems to have been the dominant story in the news. And maybe that's something that should change. Yeah so the casino is something that's tribe has been going at now for quite some time on it started with the former administration in even before then Underneath glenn marshall's administration when the tribe voted to offer sue gaming. I'm at this point in time. I really can't speak on the gaming endeavors because we really need to bring it back to our membership and see this is what they wanna do and they wanna proceed if a community still supports gaming than absolutely we will pursue options. I read a comment from you though. And maybe it's what you're saying now where you referred to. The casino option is low-hanging fruit and said possibly needed a reevaluation. Is that tipping your hand a bit that you're not convinced that the casino is the the necessarily the right direction for the walks. I think a casino is a small drop in the bucket. More talking about the services and other economic development that the tribe can do Casinos are just the easiest thing for tribes to go at However what's supposed to be easy has been very challenging for our tribe and our people. I'm so i think it's best to just reassess everything and see you know what the community wants to do We move forward or not. You know that's up to the people by the way we should for those who were listening to this discussion and saying you know. There's a piece of this that seemed to come to a head in washington. I mean after approval was given a number of years ago Donald trump got involved and donald trump ensured that the approval of whatever you needed to proceed with this prior to you by the way i should say i think it was in two thousand. Eighteen would be revoked and the conventional wisdom is the reason he took the position he did. Because it's rare for a president to get involved is because he had friends and former employees who were leaders of The twin rivers effort in rhode island. Who did not want to see. Competition from nearby taunton. Does that ring true with you. Yes i think that Our neighboring state in rhode island Has not been very friendly to even their own. Tribal people the narragansett. It's i mean you look at the smoke shock raid. Luckily my dad's side of the family grew up in Charlestown territory. On so i grew up with a lot of them. And i remember when that rate had happened We also talk about cart. Cheery you know that is basically the narragansett case to say that you know they were under federal jurisdiction in one thousand nine hundred thirty four and that's why we're trying to work with our sister tribes and our neighbor tribes the northeast because we've been affected. The most were the guinea pigs so to speak. I wanna colonizers. I came here and a lot of these. Same ways have been imposed by the previous president and his administration and we're very hopeful for this new president and administration on especially with the appointment of secretary deb holland. We're talking to brian regan. He's the new chair of the mashpee watson. i traveled council. We should say the pilot who we just mentioned is the first native american to serve and a cash. Right of a president isn't or secretary which brian weeden. He's a new chair of the mashpee. warnock tribal council. You know we started at bryant beginning saying you were twenty eight and and young for this job. But i i read one of the pieces about you that you began getting involved and tribal matter matters back when you were teenager. I think sixteen years old. And you just mentioned your dad and growing up narragansett so give us a little bit of sense of your background so when i was around eighteen I had seen a problem in our community with people around election times like to talk about the youth and the elders and everybody wants to talk about the future generations. but we didn't have our own group So when i was sixteen we started in the mashed national on youth council in two thousand nine. I served this person of that. Youth council until i aged out after i worked with the united national indian travel youth also known as unity inc. Which is the oldest and largest native. American youth led organization. I believe they have at least over one hundred and fifty five youth councils and thirty five states including alaska and canada. I went onto service northeast area representative for the organization and then went on to service male co president and trustee for two terms. After that i worked with the national promising american indians and the i as a youth commission person member. I was a commissioner in the co vice president of the youth commission in two thousand sixteen. I won the ncaa. I and national indian game the socialization and youth leadership award. Wow rose people. In award from the tribe which is given to a tribal system that embodies our former leader massive soviet loosen meek when of protecting the culture and traditions to the fried So i've i've done a lot. Also the native of vote coordinator for the massachusetts from various boards and commissions in the town conservation commissions mental oversight. The town field committee. And also. I've been appointed for the newly established State mission representing more by the way we should say data weeden is twenty eight not eight as it sounds like from that resume. Okay we're gonna take a quick break and then we're going to be right back to keep on talking to brian. Who's said the new chamber of the mashpee tribe listened to eighty nine seven boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady madrid. And if you're in. We're talking to. Brian mosque with weeden. Chair the mashpee. One on tribal council bryant. We've been talking In this george floyd blacklivesmatter year. A lot about reparations for african americans and obviously another group where reparations. If he's got an argument to me it's native americans tell us you talked about being evolved for longtime travel activities. What what what's your take on reparations. And some kind of justice for for your tribe and others. I think that when we talk about you know The things in the injustice. That's been done to our people. You know One of the things that comes to mind is is the land of the reason why i say that is because it's always been about the land that's why the original match up and on tribal council inc was established because after you know citizenship was forced to punt our people in eighteen. Seventy in the town was incorporated from an indian district to a town and we have to pay taxes. We've seen a lot of our tribal citizens lose their ancestral homelands and their family. Way and We're fortunate that some tribal members still hold onto those lands and can say that those hands. I've never left their family How ever majority of our town Has been taking and You know we're working with the town but it's on the state to have those negotiations restitution discussing on. What something that i've used on existing hopefully with the governor math The work on some deals negotiations around land Around our waterways Aboriginal rights is definitely an issue. A lot of our tribal citizens get harassed on the regular for exercising their rights to hunt and game on our industrial homeland We paid for a lot of lawyers and legal battles. I'm just to fight for our right with and we're really looking for the state to work with us on that as well Along with other propping issues that need to be addressed within our festival homeland. Speaking of incest homeland. Brian moscato weeden. I was in a meeting several I guess a couple of months ago which started with the woman coordinating the meeting doing what she called a land acknowledgement. And when she was asked what is that exactly. She said it was a way for non-indigenous people to honor and pay respect to the indigenous people who lived and took care of the land where she was doing the event from before the arrival of you know white europeans and that sort of thing it seems that this land acknowledgement and by the way. There's this app for those who are listening which you can go to. Its native land digital where you can find out what tribe it was. That actually took care of the land where you are if you type in your dress. It's actually pretty great. How important is that as a as a gesture or a recognition. Do think. I think that the very important i think it acknowledges the land in the people one of the reasons why we are the mass womp and you know the womp and other originally has sixty nine villages Mashed bi qun herring pond or some of the Few remaining villages and communities that are still in existence today. And where name mashpee after. This place dp means the place of the great waters and when you eat a land in you brief from the land and you drink from the land you are the land and my land. Is you in our language when we introduce ourselves. We say new. Tomas my cpa new tomas meantime from but it literally means my blood and my bones is from this land when you the land of our ancestors back into the land and they become one with land you know and all that stuff when they pass on so you know. Land is very important The from public schools here in our town has done a great and fantastic job with collaborating with the tribe and they also have land acknowledgement posters. That were translated into warmth and screw. But i'll dude in That's a great success and we're seeing a lot of other school districts reach out to deprive wanting to work on land acknowledgments. You'll find you mentioned over and over again in a in Certainly other native americans as well about the importance of the land and preserving the land and taking care of the land and we're kind of in the midst of watching our land and our water get desecrated in polluted. I'm wondering where the womp and are on the whole climate disruption climate change issue right here in our backyard and mashpee. We're actually in the process of you know trying to establish You know a wastewater treatment plant Mashes waters there's some of the worst waters that we currently have in the commonwealth on cape and that's overdevelopment of like you know people like missy berry in the commons and all these developers who you know when they started developing the count let all the stewards and the run. it know. Go right off into our river ways You know the river from my understanding. A lot of our elders say clear. You could see the bottom of the river. That's not the case anymore. A lot of our fish and stuff on here. We have a lot of contamination. And you know so on and so forth that we're not able to get some of our industrial You know traditional foods that we eat this snowy we have to go out there So the water is very important to us You know we see a lot Even here in our waters with the pond our children go in there and they come out with a rash because utterance stuff. So you know. There's a lot of things that need to be addressed as far as global warming You know we're on a man-made island and You know south cape beach. Our beach year is a prime example of the erosion. That's happening and you know. We need to work with our neighbors on preserving this for the future generations. Well you have a full plate. There we congratulate you on your rectory and we hope you'll stay in touch with us. We really appreciate your time. Thank you ca- tabatai's thank you very much bryan mosque. Tweeden is chair of the mashpee. Walkin trap council turn weeden. Thank you again for taking the time up next. Taking your calls asking if you think zoom could be an answer to our work life balance dilemmas. Zinn nine seventy eight boston. Public radio. welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady madrid tuning in we're talking. Aclu's cow rose a bit ago about Some of the pandemic practices that she believes should become post. Pandemic norms for example virtual participation in public. Meetings is one of them because it would make it meetings more accessible over. The years has come under criticism criticism for dehumanizing for giving us an excuse to opt out of our physical world favor of a virtual one but doesn't seem also gives us the opportunity to be more engaged. We're taking your calls asking. Should we stop a looking at zoom is making is passive and instead think of it as making us more participatory. If he could do more things bhai zoom. Would you be more engaged than numbers. Eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seventy but there's a flip side to this too. There is a. I think a danger of of being too consumed by the zoom way to connect with your fellow human beings and it may limit your real participation the world. I guess we're going to talk about for the next. Handful of minutes are the pros and cons virtual participation in the world. Would you be more likely to go to a public meeting via zoom the end up going to church or synagogue more because you could zoom. Maybe office meetings that you would avoid Eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seven. Why i started thinking about this martyring. I think i said to you yesterday. I'm not sure that it was you that that if eighteen months ago someone a leader in this country it proposed that we have a hybrid society where people go into the office three days a week and zoom into everything else. The other two days a week they would have been laughed off national ridiculous. It will destroy our economy. It's anti capitalism. Whatever it is and it turns out it's worked out pretty well for a lot of people but the flip side is like you and i. I like the convenience of comfort of at home and not having to commute and that sort of stuff but you also get lazy in some ways it does limit your real world engagement with other human beings. And i worry that just like we went from one hundred percent physical presence in the world two zero and then sort of a hybrid kinda thing. I think we could fall back in with thing. We do withdraw further and further and further and particularly in these pretty tough times in this country. I don't think that's a very healthy thing. So the thing. I was really excited about a hybrid life. Post pandemic is actually now making me a little vis. Yeah it is a hybrid. Oh not me. i don't think you could slide into a total zoom existence. I do well. I think you well now if you're doing it only partially if you're having a shot for days but partial could become an additional day amenities home for days a week. That's that's too many days as much as like being home but to be three days a week is in the office in two days a week at home or certainly at least one day we could home. i think. I think we've shown here it gets better. Be in the newsroom. Here physically with your colleagues or talking to your colleagues from your house and then fit with them physically. And so that's just one example other hand on the other hand we have a big work life balance problem and it's very expensive to live in cities which is where most of the work is. So if you have an hour and a half commute in the morning which is not that unusual. We have a lot of workers. How these long commutes you. You're wasting so much time. And in terms of your productivity you can be more productive at home frankly. I live ten minutes away from here. But when i think about the time it takes me in the morning just jay come in to me. My launch to pack everything up made the coffee. Pack everything up. Get the milk from it for jamming. Wanted pretty well for your whole life. Were doing that. You know the fifteen. But i think in terms of my reading the time i spend meeting or online looking for stories. I think i've lost our day. Because i because i don't have that time in the or at least a half hour day in terms of work because you get out of bed you start working right away or maybe take. Your kids scores something like that. Plus the other thing is. There's a lot of for for women. Particularly i mean. I have friends that went to college with the became lawyers. You know what happens to them most end up quitting you know why because law firms y you to work nine thousand hours a week and you're still going to have to work nine thousand hours a week at least be at home working into clock in the morning when your kids are asleep. Okay they have never seen them okay. Supposed that's how long you have to work so let's come apart not that people feel sorry for lawyers. I get that but mortars people who have tough jobs we ignore will acknowledge that for certain people participation in politics in work. Whatever will be heightened if they can do it. Virtually but what you're i think in. Denial about is those of us like you and me who can participate in things in the world in non virtual fashion meaning in real terms are often going to choose the virtual way which i think most of both was sort of agree is less effective whether it's a newsroom. Whether it's at a city council meeting whatever it is so again. Let's put aside for the moment. Somebody's working three jobs. Can't go to that meeting that school committee meeting for their kid that's five. Let's talk about that woman lawyer who want to quit because she can do whatever it is for everybody else. You're not worried at all about sliding into slaugther. Whatever it is and essentially live in the rest of our lives in pajamas. I mean i aerobics. In my case. I am eight. Seven seven three zero one. Eighty nine seventy. I'm not have made any decisions about this. But i i there's a pendulum thing on this. What else now. Shut up is the cost of childcare. That is so astronomical. And i'm thinking that people with young kids right now. There are thinking boy. We're going to save a fortune because we only have to be in the office three days a week before days a week. You're you're making the same point for those who for whom it will provide. An alternative does not exist. It's terrific for those like you and me and there are a lot of you and me in the world. We don't need it. we don't need it. We are choosing it and the choice just worries me. it's all. I'm saying judy in wilmington your first on boston. Public radio welcome. Hi hi thank you. I think your point. Jim was very good that yes. There is a large section of the population that we don't want to become cut off from society restaurants. Brought up you. Have you haven't though disgust. There is a huge component of the population. On the geriatric therapist provides care to patients in the community. They have life experiences insights That are cut off from government and society boy their lack of ability to get out and participate in addition it's also allowed a number of my patients to reconnect with family members. That they can't just talk to them on the phone. They wanna be able to visually see their family members. They wanna visually see their representatives. They wanted to visually able to attend church services but cannot they're just like in anything in society. Yes i think that We need to balance out our approach but we need to keep virtual as an option option for those who are shut in either physically or predominantly physically. I'm really glad you called. That was a great addition to marjorie is list. That is fabulous judy. Thank you much for the call. That's a constituency that clearly for home. We should make this permanent. By the way the reason we're talking about this in massachusetts all these emergency measures including zoom participation. That sort of thing expire on june fifteenth unless the legislature and the governor by executive order if he can or legislature passes laws that allow a whole variety of things to be done a long distance. Virtually it couldn't be done pre pandemic that way and judy. I think makes a wonderful a point about older people who just can't get to these things. Yeah and a lot of group. Things like Different groups people to where people may be going away for part of the time or whatever it allows everybody to join in To the to those groups. I wrote of quit. If i'm saying this correctly from quincy. Thank you for calling tie. Hey thank you for having me on the air sure I just. I just wanted to say that Videotape public meetings In the city. Of quincy i've been doing it for five six years so Lately since they've been doing zoom. I've been sitting at home videotaping the the screen. And what what i miss about. Or what about the regular meetings on zoom. They have the ability to get you to stop talking whenever they want whereas the live meeting They can make you stop talking. But it's not in it. They shot you walk with just pressing a button for second hold on. Why do videotape. All these meetings is for job. Or because your. It's your concerns sake. I call myself then. Wrote a fail and just one person. Just i videotape zoning meetings and planning meetings so if they are going to build twenty unit that make sure they don't build forty unit. I hope you didn't videotape. Any of my years in cambridge city council rodeo. Thank you for your call and thanks for your citizenship. That's so important when he's doing. Because i think one of the tragedies of newspapers demise is that there are reporters they this zoning board of appeals meetings to see which analogous go on rose doing a great service for his fellow quincy is served. Quincy arenas is you know the While we're using zoom. I a friend of ours just texted us and said you know live and live streaming. Is the future i. I don't think we meant. Maybe we came out this way. Zoom in the narrowest sense. I mean streaming is another. It changed the world in the most wonderful of ways. We've talked to a lot of people in the performing arts. Yup who have said things to us like we're getting to audiences that never would have been able to come to symphony hall or this stage production or whatever so. There are a lot to one thing i worry that we i guess. I want us to become a shot in culture and i have potential to be a shot. And that's why. I'm not just doing this in an abstract thing. I like the comfort of the couch. And i don't want to live on the couch. And you know what i mean and i worry that forced out of the borrow a couple of times. This exactly forced out of the borough. That's my bumper sticker. Let's go ape switch carols on the phone. Welcome caroli- hey jim. I'm kinda with you a little bit. Because i don't know i don't i don't to like marge i don't wanna get up and get ready and do this and that and and get up real early. My problem was this. I used to have later meetings in the evening some time. Let's say till ten o'clock at night. Then i'd have to get back to north station where you have a celtics game getting out and i have to catch a train and bam. I get home. I am so out of the world. And if i could go to one of those meetings with zooms great point the amount of time it saves me is just beyond now. That's a good one. That's another good one. Yeah the time factor to we. Tower combines it kind of at the same thing. He's he's very busy with his work. He's i think he's a teacher and he talks about Yeah teacher and he has an hour ride each way to was therapist and he has a good relationship with the therapist and he he can do it now on zoom and not have to drive all that way and by the way. That's another area. Obviously were medical care behavioral health care all that sort of stuff is obviously the access to that is dramatically improved because of the ability to do it in ways that we didn't think we could do it before trust. Thank you for calling fail. Thank you so Jim i your point before the pandemic for about seven years before the pandemic i had the opportunity to go into work. I were allowed to do Telecommuting my company worldwide. And i have a lot of meetings with people in india in europe england Nevada so i'm all over the clock and it turned out that even though i could stay out of the office i went in two times a week. And it might commute with seventy seventy minutes each way But the social part is important but it's also great benefit being able to use zoom. We didn't use it you know. We had teams we. You know we dollar parks so yeah you know. It was to get the connection. I was talking to people about meetings in a meeting. The the pre meeting when you're gonna you come in with your coffee and your donut. A lot of that social part. You miss on for totally true meeting going but at the same time i love zoom because it allowed me to have these you know. I work with teams closely. Directing people managing them doing projects worldwide. And we got a lot of stuff done And it will go down that without having that so well. You know what you're making the case l. for a hybrid world post. I mean you've lived a hybrid world and you're making the case that continues. I have to say. I wouldn't have taken the position. I'm taking here. If i thought that we live hybrid and stay hybrid. I just worry that we slide into a remote existence. that's all. I'm saying because the point you made before that that moment. When you're just socializing with your co workers i can tell you. I think our shows are better. I think our workers better when we everybody's in the newsroom. And you sort of their their ideas floating around that by osmosis or something enter your head and they end up in the air l. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. We appreciate his one from elizabeth. Isn't life hybrid. The keys for companies a treat employees is responsible adults in the judge them on the work. It were getting done as breezy professional and maxed out mother two or three days in his great but what i really need when we're facing a deadline five days in that maybe three days and but leaving it to thirty two cash the little league and that a longer day from home the next day it may seem a little chaotic but issue points out so as life. I get a lot done. But let's not pretend having someone sitting in a conference room secretly stressed out about something. They're missing in their personal life is quote working full-time period close quotas be. That's that's another great point. I mean your kids get older. I mean you may have childcare something until five or six o'clock when they're little but they have basketball games and they have soccer games. They have track meets. And what's what. This pandemic is proved. I think is people do get a lot of work done at home. There's no evidence. Karadzic has fall off a cliff so all sorts of parents. I mean i was one of them. You're either turning group canal every two weeks so he goes to see your kid in the basketball game or you're missing the basketball games. You know this whole thing of face time with the office. There was an anecdote in the story about one of these law firms. Where i wanted to leave your purse on her desk. Everyone assumes she was there which was running off to do something having to do with the kids. Just looking at me blankly. Jan saying i was trying to do with that woman said i should do. Shut up or something and she'd give five hundred dollars. I think i was trying to do a thing to the assumption from your employer that you're selling off all the time it's like the stories but these poor people in the amazon warehouse. They're getting tracked. Every time they make a move and how fast they can move and they're so rushed him. Take time to get a bathroom break. It shouldn't generalize the when is Gbh reopening in september temper. When is the globe reopening. I think september so there to employers who are not saying. We don't trust to do responsible kind of word of mind but most of our guys aren't alive employees I'm a lot of employers are suspicious or agree with watching the see their employees. Make sure they're all time. The line of jeff bezos. Is that what you're talking about. He could be one. So have you thought about when he goes in outer space but whether or not you want him to come back have you. If you contemplate colleagues say be great if you get stuck in pain remember. I think she may have said that. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seventy kim from gloucester. Thank you for coach jim. I've been trying to go to my doctor. for what. oh well over. Twelve thirteen hans You couldn't win there. I didn't want to go into the office Sixty so. I got a bunch of stuff going on. Yeah i finally get a call from the nurse We want to schedule an appointment blah blah blah. Well the hell that You know a callback i did. We wanna do is zoom appointing call. I'm looking at it. What he can't take my temperature in blood pressure on zoom. Call so i did it anyway but it turned out to be very productive because actually following the doctor out the door. I'm not done my ailments and this and that but this time you listen to everything. I said for twenty minutes. What's it gonna do. Hang up on me so i was very surprised. The medical kind of zoom worked out very well from me. I'm not saying i tell you. I love open minded. People like you. I mean that jim. I thought you were going to continue with the same theme. You predicted be a disaster. It was a disaster. But it wasn't so. I mean there's a wonderful experience and obviously that gives a lot of people access to healthcare as i said a minute ago who mine other otherwise be able to get jim. Thank you for the call. I just hope you want. We had the succession with paul rebel years ago. Long before the former secretary of education long before the pandemic came about whether or not This whole virtual thing was a slippery slope. And you. I worry about getting off a gym from gloucester a minute ago. So are lower. Income people going to be told zuma's adequate or a phone call is fine with you and my wealthier patients. They can come into the office. You don't worry about a two tier world. Also marjorie savvy and mess in the road. He is a two tier world. People that do the controversial exacerbated. No i mean. I that that's possible. I hope you'll need to believe somebody's on the up and up. I like to think that healthcare people like doctors and nurses how about education. You think colleges are going to decide. Some colleges not all colleges remote learning great for kids who can't pay full freight and those kids who can't afford are outrageous tuition. Well they actually where the teachers. That's a great question. But you know i would think. Now if you're faced with seventy grand a year to go to some of these schools or doing remote for thirty five thousand you might say i'll take. That's an intentional decision. I'm talking about people. For whom the decision is made that kid who can only afford the lower thing doesn't want to do a remote education he or she wants to be in the classroom so they can ask questions of the professor the teaching assistant afterwards and that might not be all of. I'm saying things you have to work. Want us to worry about the downside of something that a lot of got really excited about you know what i mean. I think you have to face. The most people will be able to work it out. Jim and not everybody's going to be. I mean i think you're projecting a little bit here because you don't want to get off the couch anyway. You really have to do you remember years ago. We did a story. We did thing on the radio. This is actually a sad story about the woman who said this is a true story settled couch so long and it got to me. So i shouldn't like woman is out on the couch for so long and for such an export extended period of time. This is true. Look it up as they say that she in the couch became one that essentially the fibers of the couch happened. They sort of well. I only did background. The we've on the couch. When i basically i exactly i never where she went. The couch with her. That was the part is made up. The rest is totally true. I dunno marry your couch around. All day can be a hell of a burden especially in a hot day. Okay we are talking. Oh actually we're done with this because coming up. We're gonna talk to john. King your i about liz. Political headlines of dc. Keep it down. Eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio Welcome back to boston public radio. We're about to make contact with john. We haven't done. John king joining us in one second Not surprisingly the biggest political story in america continues to be one senator who most of american never heard of until i don't know few months ago joe manchin from west. Virginia this is obviously off the op. Ed he wrote in homestate newspaper in west virginia and which she said that he will not be voting for the broader of the two of voting rights bills pending before the senate which means they're not fifty democratic votes and that he will not be voting to break the filibuster at appears for anything. at least. that's what i took away from this. Which means the democrats would need sixty votes for anything at least ten republican votes to get any of these matters that have passed the house on a whole variety of things from criminal justice the guns to voting rights to infrastructure to the desk of the president so the consequences could be pretty extreme cheryl. Who knows you just emailed this. No offense to marjorie but jim has the sexiest voice. I could listen to him. Read the phone book. X o x. Whoa cheryl and you don. I'm not going to list her last name but you know who she do. Yes you do. Is you call up after the show jim. Now where'd you say caller up so we're gonna talk about that and the john is actually joining us online no. Cnn's chief national correspondent one of our favorite people and one of the most knowledgeable people on the political scene dorchester zone. john king. Hey there john off at the setup for a long fall. let's go. No no no absolutely not so so john before you came on. Jim was talking about america. Elected joe biden president. At least if you not be believing big lies at were but it seems as though joe mansion is is running everything and if he keeps running everything biden is not getting anything done look. I think this is a giant question for the country For senator manchin. Senator cinema and there are a couple of others mansion. Gets most of the attention center cinema. Get some of it. As i've said before on this program megi happened just to the north of us. Democrat from new hampshire senator. She's reluctant to change. Somebody's rules to make. Just let mansion take all the heat but look the president of the united states who leads. The democratic party hosts a very ambitious. Agenda is going to have to decide when to bang heads twist arms In trying to get his votes past mansion is front and center in that. But marga i think the president in the country and progressives also need to be candid in the sense that they only have a four or five six vote margin in the house and they have no martin in the senate and so i do think that if you look at the bold biden agenda and the even bolder progressive agenda. That's not to say some job. Say whether they're right or wrong. You're not gonna get a lot of that passed as drafted as written today but through this congress. You're just not and so the question is where is the president willing to lead and say i need most of this. And where is he willing to compromise. I think he has deliberately waited for a long time. Say let's do cove relief i. Let's do vaccinations first. Let's do the you know the pandemic the economy priorities one. Two three four and five. But i do think we're at that crossroads now. He's gonna have to make some decisions and things i think that'd be messy. You know john. What is the joe biden. Chuck schumer strategy here after this op ed ren and his home state newspaper. I guess over the weekend or whenever it was a couple of days ago. What is joe biden or someone. On his behalf do with senator mansion. What is chuck schumer due to one of his forty nine democratic members. What happens jim. I think you raise a critical piece of this question that often gets overlooked in the sense that both speaker pelosi and leader schumer are going to have to help the president through this and going to have to help the democratic family realize you know sort of what can we do. And what can't we do right. And so i and again. I think the clock is ticking. Now and so we'll show senator schumer for example bring the for the people act which is the more sweeping democratic. It's not just voting rights. It has a lot of campaign finance changes into it. There's no way it's going to pass the united states senate. There's no way it's going to get a sixty. Boats may not get even all the democratic votes antenna said immobile for it. I think there are two or three other. Maybe four of the democrats who are reluctant so do one approach would be for schumer to just start bringing these things to the floor and let there be votes. Bring up bring up for the people today. You can't advance it with sixty votes. You know that you get them some math. Bring up a you know whether it's a climate change bill whether it's an infrastructure bill bring up something the next day or the next week and see where the votes are and part of that is to remind progressive in the house that you know we understand your energy. We applaud your energy. We understand you can sell that back home in your district. But we don't have the votes for it in the senate how do you. How do you sort that process out. And i i understand the president strategy so far has the focus on the north stars if you will but if they want to get some of this done in the back half of this legislative session before we get too deep into the summer and then nothing happens and then we come back. It's an election year and even less happens that the president's going to have to make some pretty quick decisions over the next several weeks as to how to prioritize and then to ask pelosi and schumer to help them on the hill. Play it out. You know we're spending all this attention on joe. Manchin who is a democrat and did vote for massive covert relief. Bill we should maybe spend a few minutes on the people. I i know. Marjorie considered true obstructionist republicans in the senate with a few exceptions republican. Legislators across the country who are embracing these voter suppression bills that become law with republican governors signatures. And i have to sit. Did you watched jeopardy to see anderson. Cooper's hour long interview. John with brock obama last night. I did you know. I thought it was for those who didn't see. It was terrific and you. You've got a guy who is whether you like politics or not as so insightful. And so smart and so thoughtful. But you know i left the our every time anderson asked this guy who's been in that seat who knows what incoming to use his expression like from the opposition every time he asked barack obama. How do we fix this. You know it was sort of like we got a reorganize we gotta build from the bottom up. I left that our thinking. Even barack obama doesn't have an idea how to get out of this. This this to america's divide that we find ourselves in it. Was i being unfair to him or did you draw the same conclusion. No i i think it is fair. Locate he would have his response. If you're with us to say well. I am involved here and i don. I decided not to do so much there. I was just talking about this with my political reporters on my show. Insist to the same point in the sense that he's very thoughtful and he's very analytical about the problem i think his point about the media silos we've talked about these conversations before he's very instructive and i look. I think everybody should spend most of the time with jim jim and marjorie but then occasionally watch under running. But i mean i mean that you should have your favorites. Are people should have their favorites. And you guys were great. But if you're doing a disservice to yourself if you don't scout the other team mark you don't open your mind to listening to other points of views You're limiting your own growth right limiting your own. Forcefulness hasn't argue to argue against those positions that you find to be outrageous and the pro forma presents right about that too. Many people live in this media silo now where you only hear what you wanna hear. You only hear things that not and you think you're the smartest person on the planet. That's a dangerous place to live. He's right about that. I do think there are a lot of people say well. Then what are you going to do about it. you know. Brock obama You you are a unique communicator. You are a former president. You have a political network. And i think some of it is joe. Biden's president now obama's bit hesitant to get take to spotlight away. I i think it's also fair that he's enjoying his retirement and the celebrity piece of and he's entitled to that. I think we get into the midterm year. If there's anybody who understands what it's like to be punished and midterm elections. It's rock obama. He lost the house in his first one in two thousand nine then he got reelected. He lost the senate in his second midterm in two thousand fourteen. So if there's anybody who can help to understand. What joe biden. We'll go through what the democratic party will go through if they lose the next election. It's barack obama. So i think that would be the testing time right. Jim is he out there as we get closer to. The midterms doing everything. He can't talk about these issues especially the voting rights piece of it. Well you know the conventional wisdom was what really Hurt barack obama was gamma kerr. Because it was very unpopular at least at the beginning and then of course it change. But i'm wondering because i think so. Many americans want infrastructure. They want some of these. You know bridges roads. And i think a lot of women would also like a little bit of help in terms of the women's work that so underpaid so i wonder if just like obama was hurt by passing obamacare that the gop will be hurt by by not coming up with with a plan that can pass. I don't pay enough attention to this to realize who's blocking the stuff. Well i one of the lessons of the first obama term is that you know. Look past all these major changes to health care which by and the republicans focused on disruption because it was going to be disruptive a lot was going to change your healthcare and the good hadn't come yet because the law hasn't been implemented so you hadn't you didn't realize how much you liked have like letting your kids down your plan. They were twenty six. You didn't realize how much whether it's pre existing conditions or some other benefit from obamacare. And sure there were. Things about obamacare that infuriate youtube perfect everyone gets but republicans focus on the disruption and the and the economy. Do not come back separately. Stimulus plan did economy. Do not come back at the speed. The democrats had hoped and they had a huge midterm sweep. So number one. The lesson for biden is when democrats passing embrace them. Do not run from them. Do not know but to your point about the infrastructure thing. I i think. I don't know the answer marjorie. Because we've just been through this. Take the politics out of it's a disruption of covert and what it has done to everybody's lives and how everybody has to deal with unwanted change disruption So politically can you make an argument there about you know Do are people in a different place because of the pandemic when you pass big things or you have disruptive things. I don't know the answer. I think that's in part with the mid-term climate. It's going to settle that question. What you have marjorie. And i one of the few things. We argue about Off the air and on is is what is clear to the american public. And what is not and i would argue. If republicans who voted against the relief packages can go home and brag about how they brought spending to their district that they voted against their ability to convince enough voters that they weren't the obstacle to any of these advances advances joe manchin a democrat was the obstacle to all these advances in paid. Advertising is to me. Pretty clear. John no i think it can't. We'll will democrats successfully hold to account republicans who are trying that shell game. I will call it. Vote no on everything aetna on everything and then find two or three things to run home and brag about we'll we'll democrats be nimble enough Will it be in the districts that matter so midterm elections are incredibly complicated and we have no idea how complicated yet because we're still so far out But house elections are different from senate election. Tried you know. Are the democrats going to be on their heels. Because you know something happens to the vaccine rod or will. They be feeling quite confident. Economy comes back. The vaccination things are better. But i think that the tactical nimble -ness of the democratic party is critical when it comes to that question. Are you ready to consistently get in the face and call out. What the democrats. I assume will offer simple bolt hypocrisy. Well when you say how nimble are they. I mean if you were if this was a moot court or if it was a jury trial i mean the republicans would be guilty. In thirty seconds the jury would be back. Wouldn't wouldn't they i. Could you can make that case. Pretty strongly the question is the republican. You're talking about in a very competitive congressional district. Therefore it's worth putting the money in the advertising or do you just have to bite your tongue and be frustrating and walk away and realize okay. We might narrow this from a fifteen point reyes to ten point rice or twelve point rice. But we're gonna lose that district so he let him get away with it because we need our resources somewhere else. We're talking to cnn's. John cameron keep talking to him after this quick break into eighty seven. Gbh boston public radio gravy. Just tuning in. We're midway through a conversation with c. n. n.'s. John king so john king. We were looking at your website earlier today. in chris. zola. Had a great piece talking about foreign president and according to his sources trump really does believe he's going to be reinstated this summer. I mean can this be true It can be true that he says it to people yes Are here and we have reported on this mega even with the new york times. I think the first person to report this a few days ago. that in his conversations with People who support him in this idea that you know these audits are going to find this massive fraught and suddenly they're going to declare joe biden illegitimate and reinstate donald trump. There's a few problems with that are never won. The election was had very little fraud. Joe biden wanted Both in the popular vote and the electoral college. He is president. He was sworn in. And there's nothing in the us constitution or federal law that allows a president to be reinstated. So there are a lot of problems with the argument up but Donald trump doesn't care about the truth or facts and he keeps telling people this law and and he just said it just said this. You know i go through this. I know you guys wrestle with the. How much do you pay attention to. One senate lady is not true when it is not true and it is potentially destructive to democracy Do you just want to ignore it right Because a lot of people say crazy things however he's not just talking to the portrait's at mar a lago. He did this speech to the north carolina republican party of the weekend. Not the reinstatement part but the fraud part and so the republican party continues to enable him at official events awfully they raise money To say these things. Can you imagine if the ceo of your company traveled country lying. Yeah it's a seat. If the ceo of your company tr travel the country telling a bold blatant lie That wasn't about nothing that had a destructive could be potentially destructive debilitating to the company which is our democracy is the is the former presidents company. What he says is destructive debilitating in the republican party is enabling him because they fear him they feared his voters and they make money off him so we have to talk about it john. You're careful not crossing the line into Being an opinion. But i think this is a safe one to ask. Do you not worry about the long-term. Forget the midterm election consequences. I'm not saying they're not important to you. Worry about the long term consequences of living in this rabbit hole. That so much of america chooses to live in so i'm an optimist by nature. You guys know that. I'm a kid from dorchester. Whose family for part of my childhood was on food stamps. I grew up in a triple decker. I have traveled. The world has seen amazing things because of the value of education the value family that supports me And so i'm an optimist. I just just a born bostonian optimist. Yes i'm worry. You just say i try not to go into opinion. What i just said was pretty opinionated. The former president digit lying in the republican party. I wish i wish. I never had to speak those words but that is not that is not pro-trump that is that it's not anti trump. I mean it's pro truth and so sometimes we have to end the call. I do not want to get involved in these verses. Are i do not want to get involved in dc versus these. Whose idea is better. Who's the most compelling. I want to cover the story But but when when something is clearly not true it is our obligation to call it out. And i think if enough people do that we'll get through this but we are in a very threatening period of time that i frankly people were saying two or three years ago. That trump is a threat to democracy. I kinda shrug it off and said now. It's not that bad or he's just people will figure this out and i underestimated. I think that the how many people would join him How many people would look for an excuse. You know to to say. Joe biden didn't win. How many people are willing to attack math and facts and the rule of law in our country. So i think that there should be a giant wakeup call to everybody in my view should be giant wakeup call even more so to conservatives and republicans not let your party be led down this rabbit hole Because we need debates between the parties So am i. am. I worried absolutely. Am i generally optimistic and think we'll come through this after. I think we're going to spend a few years on a roller coaster with a blindfold on not knowing exactly where we're going to go and when it's going to stop but generally. I'm an optimist. We're talking to john king from cnn. Changqing president biden talked about getting seventy percent of americans with at least one vaccine dose by july four. So far. i think it's only thirteen states have met that goal. How significant this well. It's a big goal and this one's ambitious. A lot of people said early on the president had goal to the deliberately set a low bar so guarantee to meet them. This one is going to be tough. I was looking at these numbers earlier today. And we're somewhere in the ballpark of three hundred. Seventy five thousand americans. I think it's even dropped a little bit getting their shot every day and he has to get it up over above five hundred and fifty thousand to reach that goal so they need to ramp this up significantly to meet it. But let's say they fall short of it if they come. Close your sixty. Three percent of americans now have at least one shot if you can get to sixty eight or sixty nine. That's progress and the reason they're doing this marjorie is they're looking at know now. Is the summer this is the quote unquote good. Time for. cova outdoor doesn't spread as much in the heat and what they're worried about it. Let's say you know massachusetts doing great in terms of the vaccine roll out. Most of the new england states are doing great alabama mississippi tennessee louisiana. It's largely in the southeast away behind And so are we going to to the back to school time. In late summer early fall and see these regional pockets of cases researching you know in the pandemic. So that's why they're making this push trying to get ahead of when the weather gets colder To reach the seventy percent by july fourth. That's actually a steep climb as of today. They're not gonna make why we wait and count. What are the things that you guys on. Your website should mentioned this. you're talking about a foreign president trump. but this bipartisan report about the january. Sixth thing not this special commission but this report that they've been working on from again five partners I think so. I'd have to senate committees. yeah. I'm not sure what to community said work but in any case reason i mentioned it is They talked about some some intelligence failures but they also it says the report really didn't talk about trump's roll and i thought that was odd because it was bipartisan. So i guess once again. It's another indication of the foreign presidents in san with gop. Yeah yeah. I think you re you can read this report and this again defense you. You have a glass half empty glass half full in the sense that there are some very damning details about the intelligence failures That you know different agencies new information that he didn't share it very similar pre-nine eleven right. There were a lot of information but it was siloed in different places and it wasn't shared or didn't get up the chain of command to the right person or somebody in a position of authority just played it down or shrugged it off. So there's a lot of damning information as they reform the capitol police try to deal with the management. It wasn't just the individuals but the structure sometimes tied their hands. How to deal with this as they deal with those that. This report is very very helpful laying out some of the problem. Structural problems and personnel problems and decisions wrong decisions and sharing information but it doesn't even use the term insurrection. Because the republicans would not agree to the reporter fees that terms it mentions that donald trump gave a speech to a rally. It does not say he lied in. That speech doesn't fact. Check that speak and say that he said things that we're simply not true in that speech because for them to say that the republicans would not cooperate so they instead just said if you want to read the speech in the appendix to the report so it ducks a lot of the big questions and it glosses over some truth and so you could make the case that you know. Why do we have the united states. Congress making extreme case. But if they if the grownups can't go into a room and say we need to make points here. We all need to agree on a few points here. Democrats republicans male female from the west coast east coast somewhere in between we need to have some basic common understanding acceptance of the facts. Here jim this gets us back to the obama conversation. All of these things are connected. Just these refusal to address to have a common set of truth over then which we fight like cats and dogs. Let's have some basic common truths it seems to me. John is rudy. giuliani hot. people probably know that. There's this new audio of this phone call in may two years ago which you can hear him. Basically pressuring Ukraine to investigate. These conspiracies turn out to be baseless about The biden's she in hot water over this or what. He's being investigated a number of things and this is among the things seasoned vet being investigated for everyone to listen to the full forty minutes of this conversation and when rudy giuliani says he did absolutely nothing wrong. Imagine a an attorney who represents the president of the united states saying these things to representatives of a foreign government busy in a live war with russia at the moment trying to use his influence and leverage over them to do unethical things. It's just forty minutes of pure straight out corruption Sorry just listen to it. If you come to a different conclusion you know where to find me. Okay so if the new head of basketball operations for your boston celtics calls you on the phone and says who should my next coach be. What is john king. tell him. I'll little conflicted on this one. I think i think they they see what steve nash in brooklyn. So i think they see this former player. Steve kerr the warriors. I think they see the former player idea. Who would that be for us right. Is that chauncey billips that castle. I could see that. I could see that i think Juwan howard who is now in the college ranks. I i guess i could see that. I just i don't know we're gonna learn this new role for brad stevens to or you know came in from a college coach to approach so i'm fascinated by it but jim we have to worry. First and foremost we have to get the bruins victory on long island and keep the red sox on the streak one time care and before you go away when i was watching. Rachelle wolinsky dodger. Orlinsky throw out the first pitch at red sox game. I remember that one. John how many times you don a john. A number or one. Or how many times do i've done it once. And it was the only game the red sox wondering the yankees that series so. I've always told them they should see what happened. There i was in right. Field doctor lansky through that out. I was out there with my two sons watching the game. It was fantastic. It was cold as you know what but it was. It was fantastic to do a better job. Dr alinsky or no. I i was i was. I was a little high but i reached to the play. That's very impressive. dr landscaping join. Say one god. My older son told me my oldest son told me. If you bounce this i will never speak to you again. Pressure can take two weeks off to practice okay. Baseball player in high school. I was a mediocre baseball player. A catcher so. I did the reverse right better you than may john. It's a pleasure as always. Thanks so much for your time. We appreciate you very much. John king can you imagine i have a heart attack crowing the first ally john king joins every week. He's seen as national correspondent. Nacre this ipod expensive. Well let's to watch the video. Tell us watch the video former news reporter here. You can tell people. How did i choose. Not to jeff thank accused the sexism. I've got enough problems and leave it at that. Thank you again to john king okay. Every week we'll be back quick break you.

boston Dennis white marty walsh Winter smith Jon rahm Patrick rose dennis white olympics marjorie nbc city hall tokyo cabinet kim genius Jim brady kim janey jim just white janey baston jim
226 - 50 Hour Days

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

1:38:00 hr | 1 year ago

226 - 50 Hour Days

"This is exactly right. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder the podcast. Thursday podcast, right? That's carrying kill Sarah. That's George, Heart Star Kyw and she is say one year older. And I say. Forty years fucking right, that's. Right Dr Done. How it feel, it feels fine I, feel like you're dozen easier for figuring out who you WanNa be thirties are trying to achieve that end your forties are for Fuckin- enjoying it. You know for pills. That's that's my whole life. For is for upping your intake of pill rate great. My sister told me that I always all I'm ever doing his accusing people being on pills. Says that person was clearly on pills. We're watching a lot of viral videos stuff there on pills. She's like you say that about everybody. You're probably right half the time. At least I think I think. I am though a lot of people use a lot and I don't mean like meds. They need and standard stuff I mean like pills probably shouldn't be on. Oh okay. Pills that make them think they should go up to other people and seven eleven and tell them things that aren't true. That kind of stuff. Oh, then there's a fucking shit. People on pills You're right. You're right there on Karen. Pills is what they're on. Also. Just you know not to get off your birthday, but. Very quickly. GET OFF IT I. don't care that they call people Karen. Seem to feel the need to defend Mir's. It has nothing to do with me, I mean. Sometimes I can Karen out for sure, but yeah, it's not Seat to be scrawling on twitter and like see people yelling at you. Don't take it that way when I Like Joran. State and when I see like news from Georgia. That's always fucking negative I'm like sorry, it's not me. You have a series voter suppression issue. Georgia. Sick it i. want everyone to vote twice. I'm provost. Wait what that's even another. I am pragmatic. I actually just started following this account on twitter. Black votes matter who were completely on that that whole thing that happened I believe it was in Atlanta right. And they went out aside from of course obviously reporting, it's everybody that needed to know about it. And getting the word out. They also went and started giving those. There are people who waited in line for twelve hours to vote twelve hours. They didn't get out of there to like eleven o'clock at night and black votes, matters went, and we were handing out like pizza and water to people and stuff like helping them. Stay in line to vote. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, but it has to stop. A has to change. Yeah, and Georgia needs to Georgia better. Get Your Shit together better George Better Georgia please. They'll do it. My that's Karen. What did you did you hang on zoom with the FAM- on your birthday? What did you? Do. You want it doesn't matter was my fortieth birthday in quarantine rented a bunch of Nice things. I actually cried multiple times for real. It was like a very nice thoughtful. Bokram didn't like touched way. Yes, or not guess, dump your feet. Way Like Oh shit. She's having a forty year old Tantrum Cheryl way. Were all touched ways. Oh, we can. Did you get something like really nice? Is there anything you want to share with us that he got for you? You're always at like. He did because he knew I didn't want like one of those drive by wave of Georgia. Birthday thanks. Of Choice. Yeah. Right like wavy. Drive by thinking I'm like. Not so instead he reached out to just a couple longtime, close girlfriends, and asked them to send to give him a name title of book. That meant a lot to them. And he'd get a by the book local bookstores everyone, and then he said we gave it to me unread what the book meant to them and my? Thought. I would like it and so just. This like really sweet like you know I know you love this so this I got you this book. That's beautiful is really lovely, and so I definitely cried. They're just like a lot of I. I have I have lovely people in my life I'm very lucky yet, looting! You do make so much, did you? Did you also cry because he can't read? You can't read any trading. I tried to eat the book I thought he was going. I have to ruin the moment Georgia. Tales? To bring the Karen Element to the George of story. So and thank you to everyone. Of course, the birthday wishes no. It's not a midst of can. You know train wreck happening in the world. People took the time to say happy birthday to me and that was very nice of you. I you listen. It's you know what you had this year. Your Forty S in June of twenty twenty is like the most historical year kind of today. This big shit going down. This is the biggest day. Let's ever happened in our lives life. Yeah, on the face. It feels negative, but there's this undercurrent. It's very stressful and difficult for a lot of people and really. You know it's also there's there's a lot of people really scared and. But then there's also there's just this kind of epic change. Feel to it right like. I've never seen political action like this in my life. It's incredible and I'm fifty. Now bragging. I've seen some Shit I was there when MTV was invented in. This is bigger than that. Let's see. What do we have well I would please like to talk about a woman named Unequal Charles. Who wrote the song? You'RE GONNA lose your, job. That is now the number one hit of the summer. Look it up right now. If you haven't seen it yet, but you probably know what we're talking. You know what we're talking about. It's kind of like a protesters anthem now an amazing. Yesterday I read, there is a buzzfeed article. They tracked her down and it is the most beautiful story of her family. Seeing this video, go viral first of all the security guard that made the video. The guy that's in it That's holding her hand. Her arm in the video is the guy who originally posted it. WHOA, and he any posted it and said. First of all. I want to say I am not making fun this person. I honestly think this song is e somewhere. He smirks in it Oh. Yeah, he thinks it's great. Yeah, and he's the one that posted it. Yeah! But then it's like you know so I love that that he's kind of He's in on it a little bit. Yeah, and it was due respect of like. It's a jam. It's the head of the summer. It's such a good song, and then they've set. They've set up a go fund me for her. Also she has event. Mo- that's at get this dance. Yeah it's it's just a beautiful story. And now she's reunited with her family and read the buzzfeed article around the buzzfeed article. They did a great job. Give her name again Geneva Charles. Okay perfect I think that someone should do ringtones and she should get all the money for the ring. Tell Rhianna or she should just go straight to like YouTube with it. Yeah, whatever's best best for her. Yeah, and then go on my lottery. Dream Home, 'cause I love that show. Joe Is your. House. Oh my God. We found. There's a channel. Sister Watch the channel of it's literally called the the wealth Chandler's. I swear to God and it basically is like it's these. It's basically rich people programming, and so they show like houses that are for sale on them like the most echoes of Hawaiian Islands that are like on the waterfront, Tha that kind of style and is it all narrated in slow Mo.. like tours through houses Oh, my God, but the satisfying thing is because of course. Everyone loves a nice aspirational. TV Show where you can just be like ooh. What if we lived in that house? But it's so fun when you do. Get the tour of the house in it. Suber Janke the furniture INCI as trash central. It makes you feel like it. It's such a great like you're like I so much better taste than that billionaire. Feeling Yeah I'm sorry. Oh I don't have eight hundred fucking barn doors all over my house. Or like a statue, like a kind of a random Venus statue where it's just like it, why is that in the hallway? So I do have a correction corner because last week when I was talking about the stonewall uprising, and I kind of theorized, and hopefully clearly enough that I was like well. The Mafia are the ones that owned it, so they were. Were trying to take advantage blow-black Kinda theorized about what why. I thought the Mafia was involved and got a couple emails including Denton. Who runs our website and his are? He's our merch master on our website guy. The the reason that that was owned by the Genevisi or genevieve's an get I'm family now Jennifer. What was your guest Geno? VI's genevieve sounds. Well there's a woman an agenda vs who was married to a mob boss, who was a lesbian she. She bought those I. Think because I can't sorry, I can't I scan this email? But it was basically like she bought it, so she could have a place to safely hang out. Oh, my Gosh, and despite her husband who she divorced is like a whole story, and so look into it. It's really cool, so it's all the things that I was afraid of like people being taken advantage of or whatever it's like a different. It's a different reasons. Total indifferent. Hang so look up Anna, Anna. And learned the story of why L.. The gay bars were owned by the Mafia. It's actually borderline heartwarming. It's really nice it's probably best not to speculate about the Mafia. I don't know why I just seem to need to like. Poke the bear. Yeah, that's my staff was my one correction. Okay, speaking of whatever. So talking. So we're really excited, because we have this, my favorite murder logo, black and white pen, it's like cool enamel pen that was in the shop and our merch store at my favorite dot com, and all the proceeds of that was going to rain, and it completely sold out, which was so awesome I. Think we have about ten thousand dollars terrain. Yeah, so it's back in stock, and so we get to pick a new charitable organization to give one hundred percent of the proceeds to and so you WANNA announce them the black, emotional and mental health collective, which is basically this It's a group of mental health professionals of all type, so it's therapist, but it's also like yoga teachers and. It's all kinds of people that are there to help black people, and in any kind of like therapeutic whatever kind of support they might need. especially at a time like this and I think that's that's the thing that I keep seeing on social media. That's really it's really something and think about is the intense impact like it's easy for me to talk about. Oh this is such a great time of political upheaval. Very very trying triggering time. Yeah, it's weighing on. People and people definitely feel like they're in peril and They're risk and they're exhausted and they're sick of this bullshit and. That's when you need. there. Be the most, so it's amazing that they have this collective and we're really excited because that's you know. Obviously therapies are thing so to have a dedicated place that has that is basically a bunch of professionals together. That are aiming toward really helping out. black people get the help they need and the support. They need in a time like this. Yeah, that's Meh the website. The website is www. Do you have to say that any now? You don't that anymore. wanted to tell you don't WanNa be like don't had to do that anymore. A lot of times I'm doing it to sound old. I Fed. Yeah, but then sometimes I'm worried because I used to also say H., T., t., p., colon. And, but this is The website is dot community, so go onto that website and check out the services that they have there. It's very. It's a really wide span. Yeah, Oh, and you know. Speaking of I wanted just to really quickly. Acknowledge. something that's that has been really important to us for a long time, which is making the exactly right podcasting network represent all people, especially people of Color. That's been really important to us. We have shows in the pipeline that we're really excited to have on the network, but it's been a much slower process, so it's in the works totally fucking agree. Agree and we since the beginning of the PA the network we have wanted to make sure that we have diverse voices. Please rest assured that we have great shows coming up. That will be reflecting our awareness of importance, and the the importance of just having like a bunch of different people represented that you will see it. Yes, mortar come in twenty twenty A. Twenty twenty one at the latest. To defending, but they like this next slew the next slate of shows. You will see the things we've been working on for. A year or year and a half and you'll see. that. You have anything else. Do I have anything else you watching anything did you will do you watch everything, my sister and I? We were planning on starting to watch ozark because every dinner last night. Everyone is just like that's the. That's the show bench. Everyone loves it. I have a suggestion on Netflix. There's a like little documentary called Crip camp. Did you see it known? It's so touching. You need an story right now. It's a really great one. It It's about a camp for people with disabilities. Yeah, and you know from the I think. Think it was the eighty s and how they came together, and it's just really beautiful. Oh cool I think I saw that people are raving about how good it is at Camp Yeah Oh last night. Everyone was giving recommendations and basically everyone. in my family is We're going to watch thirteenth that I've been hearing. A ton of people talk about that. I think that's the that's the next book in our book club is everyone. Go Watch that on net flicks because it's supposed to be incredible in really lays out a lot of the stuff that like. You know everyone's kind of getting a really fast. Education has out about how people have been. How Black America has been forced to live for so long and we have been. Willfully blissfully ignorant about it, and it's really nice, because a lot of people are interested in not being that way anymore I know that I don't know if they would normally have been that way, totally or acknowledge cool that we all have those tendencies, and it's ingrained in our society, so if none of us are. Infallible because you know. We were raised in in the school system, and in this second government and the justice system so. All we can do is. Is a get better. Yeah, there's so many resources to do that. You know like the criterion channel cash taken the paywall off, so you can go watch like black directors. They've done a whole thing now. Where that's just kind of open so that people go and specifically watch black film, which I as I was looking at that I'd heard of like two or three of these movies, whereas like so I guess you'd have to be specifically like a like A. Junior, yeah, yeah, you'd have to be very specifically in the know about film to have stumbled on these movies, and now they're just like putting it on the front and go. Hey, don't don't go rent the the help and tell yourself you've done anything. Take coloring your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed, he deserved gorgeous. Professional hair-color delivered to your door, starting at just twenty two dollars for decades, women have had two options for coloring your hair either outdated at home, color or the time and expense of a traditional salon. Many Madison. Reed clients comment on her. Their new hair-color has improved their lives Lynn loved the results, gorgeous, shiny, multidimensional and healthy looking hair. 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But in the first couple of days of the protests there those pictures of Ainhoa say it was like day two or three, and then there was the photo pictures of cops of videos cops kneeling with protesters during the day. Yes, and people were re tweeting that and being like. Oh look good news kind of right. There's cops out there, too. And then a lot of people came back and said basically that's COPPA Ganda and don't because those same cops that are kneeling during the day are beating the living shit out of protesters at night like it's. It was really surprising and it. It was the kind of thing that I think is very much like when you just want the uncomfortable bad part to be over your here, look. Everyone's getting along again. And I think it's a natural human reaction. It's you know it's basically saying it's all settled down. Don't worry about right But that was not the case, and and people then even started like brought back up and started re tweeting the picture that was from the two thousand fourteen protests which was a fourteen year old black boy, named Devante, heart, who is crying and hugging cop in Portland Oregon, and that was from the Michael Brown protests and that got circulated. And then very quickly people came in and said if you don't know the background of this story and this boy's life, you better look it up because they do not tweet this picture. And the first person that I saw that I was just like Oh my God, because I had listened to lots of podcasts and read lots about it, and it is a devastating and horrible story. One of the more shocking true crime stories there is an it's the story of Devante hurt and the murder suicide of the heart family. Do, that's what I'm doing this week. Wow! Yeah have I think it's like it's heavy? It's that kind of thing like if people have to know, hopefully that those when these things happen, it is that it's a fake band aid that it's a momentary makes every in momentarily makes everybody Kinda. Feel better on the today show and you know all the anchors can be like that's what a beautiful moment, and then yeah, in the old kind of pattern that we had when everybody worked and left their house in the morning and worked forties fifty hour days and You, know just we're always trying to distract. Themselves were exhausted and. PRECOR as I like to call it. Nobody wanted to take the time to kind of go any further than that just wanted things to be okay. Yeah, it's not okay. And we gotta deal, and and we allows as we can't go by the way we were because it's just unacceptable, and were or literally teetering on the brink of authoritarianism, like we're teetering on the brink, a who've been seen like military action on our own citizens of America that's beyond most people's like. The scope of our magic. Totally yeah. People like the propaganda that tells them that everything's okay, because then they can blame you know the citizens and the protesters for the military action. Even though you know, it's bullshit, it's propaganda I love the term. COPPA Ganda Cub Ganda Soga Yeah? It's it's. It's trying to elicit emotion from you so that you will you know. Not Care not give a shit. Yeah, so like that happened the first day of a protest in La I remember because I was watching it, I couldn't go down there. I was to scaled. Be Honest. I was too scared because of corona virus. I was like I, can't. I'd been by myself for three months. I'M NOT GONNA. Go stand in a big group in Take my chances. As I, watched it on twitter. People were going okay. This is a three hours of completely quiet peaceful protests. That's actually really positive and beautiful, and they come after three hours they come upon an old fashioned cop car in an intersection that with no cops anywhere, and it's like an old kind of tourists like nineties, model cop car old, and it's just sitting there, and then all the sudden someone lights it on fire, and I kind standing around specific. There's a video of the specific people. Yeah, and so everyone is kind of standing around like what this and then now the nightly news helicopter. Helicopter shot of a protest with all these thousands of people, and then a burning cop car, which when I saw that first of all the people it was people I knew and people that like they were just like. Hey, we need to say this. This is super weird. This car just showed up. Yeah, like we're on the ground there on the ground reporters basically going people need to sight this. This is not like in also like a burning cop cars. What happens at the end of Lake Lake a hockey, right? You know what I mean like a champion. A championship team when Riley. Star, ready to buy a ministries to am. It's like somebody's got their shirt off, and they're fucked up and scream. We email bringing their children to these protests and they're Dr Bags. That's not. It's not. They don't even have matches. They all use vapes. Probably it's. It's three o'clock in the after suck in noon. They'll one is. COP cars on fire, but on the same thing happened in Seattle. It was daytime cop car on fire where you're like I don't buy it I. Don't I just don't buy it, but then that's the thing of looters. Then they start drinking looters and appropriate examined. That are randomly sitting out outside of. fucking nowhere, or did you see the video of the woman who? Some kids are driving around in a in a Burgundy Jeddah and they're handing bricks to black kids out. The window in this woman goes about walks it back display. Woman comes up to the car and is like what the fuck do you think you're doing that so disrespectful? Don't go out. Don't go around here handing out to people. What are you trying to do and they're like going? No, no, no, it's fine, and it's that that whole thing of. It's fucking agitators so that Your Opinion Jin provocateur and so that your stepbrother fucking David can sit in his fucking living room and feel justified about what his what you're. Our country's doing to our citizens. Because of this you know because of so-called like lueders not to say there wasn't looting or damage there absolutely was. That wasn't the that wasn't the story that wasn't. That wasn't a majority of what was happening. And then what about the thing in New York? Where they tried to say that there was two points one million dollars worth of stuff stolen out of a jewelry store, and then that owner of that jewelry store came forward and said we don't display jewelry in the window. At night, nothing was stolen and everyone's just like. Oh like like that Kinda shit where people are like. Do you see what we've been saying this whole time about this kind of like the topic optics propaganda to make the average quote unquote person. Basically turn against a movement like that. That's real so mind. It's totally in my story to Oak. It's yeah when the when government doesn't respect journalists. Then can trust any anything any information. You're getting right unless it's from a trusted source. The framework is all. Yeah, it's it's it's. We're in a very unprecedented time right now as this is one of the earliest versions of that and it's. Anna's dark as it is on the face of it of just what it was, it's it's much sadder and worse deep down, so majority of this information is from the New York Times the Seattle Times and the New York. Times article is by a writer named Matt Stevens specifically. The OREGONIAN The Guardian and investigation discovery Dot Com on August, ninth, twenty, fourteen eighteen year old Michael. Brown is shot six times and killed by Ferguson Missouri Police Officer Dan, Darren Wilson and this murder sparks outrage, obviously in Ferguson and it ignites over a week of protests against police brutality protesters chant the phrase hands up. Don't shoot Michael's final words. When reports of these protests are short shown on the news most Americans are shocked at the violence, the brutality and heavy militarization of the police force and their tactics. I shouldn't say most people are shocked. I should say White America is shocked him but I don't think a lot of us knew that they had fucking tanks, and that they were willing to use them right so this leads to an investigation into Darren Wilson's actions, but on November twenty fourth same year when the Saint Louis County, grand jury does not indict Darren Wilson for Michael Brown's murder. People of course are outraged and the protests start again, but. But this time it's all across the nation, so of course they do protest in Portland Oregon and during a November twenty fifth protests, a twelve year, old boy named Devante heart he's he's there, and he's wearing a sign around his neck. That says free hugs a port of Portland police sergeant, WHO's working? The protests seized devante sign calls him over. They talk they shake hands, and at some point Devante who is clearly stressed and upset begins to cry. And so this police sergeant points to Demonte, Sinan says can I have one of those and they hug freelance photographer Johnny Newin snaps a photo of this moment, and then he sells it to the Oregonian and it immediately goes viral. It shared hundreds of thousands of times on social media. It's on ABC. News CBS News the today show. It's even referenced in a sketch that week on Saturday night live. an when the Oregonian Davante why he was giving free hugs at the protest. He's said that he was quote trying to show piece that there was a different way to handle it now. While Devante as intentions as a twelve year old boy are very noble critic. See the photo as propaganda that detracts from the real issue at hand, which is the constant and unprosecuted murder of unarmed black citizens by the police. Guardian writer Jonathan Jones explains it this way. He says a picture does not have to be staged to be ally. It just has to be massively under representative of the wider facts and enthusiastically promoted to iconic status. In a way that obscures those fat. Wow, yeah, so the popularity of devante photo draws both positive and negative attention to the family. One of Dante's MOMS Jen heart tells the Oregonian that their family has been receiving death threats because of it, and they begin limiting their time in public and they do. They do their best to keep a low profile. But, what's interesting is up until that point. That's exactly the opposite of what Jen and her wife Sarah have been doing with their kids on social media. Let's talk about the beginning of the heart family Jenin. Sarah Hart and Sarah's maiden name was gambler. Originally from South Dakota Jen's from Huron and Sarah is from big stone city. They meet in college after they both transferred to Northern, State University in Aberdeen, and they're both studying to become teachers. Only Jen graduates and both of their college careers, or officially over in two thousand two, while they're dating at northern state, they are met with a lot of bigotry so in two thousand and four. They decide to move to Alexandria Minnesota. So this is before same sex marriage was legalized. Sarah goes to court in two thousand and five to have her last name legally changed to heart, and then that summer Jenin Sarah decided to become foster parents, and they end up taking in a sixteen year old girl so when this girl would later be interviewed as an adult by the Seattle, times she asked. Asked to remain anonymous. Oh, just refer to her as the sixteen year old girl basically so. She said that she'd been difficult to control as a teen, she skipped school. She snuck out with friends and middle of the night She's sounds like every teenager I knew and was She wasn't happy in her old foster home so when she's placed with the. The hearts. She's totally ready to make a new start and the first six months go well. She notices Sarah is the more quiet of the two, and Jen is more outgoing and also Moodier, but overall things seem to be normal, so they all live in a two story house with a with a dog and several cats. They take family camping trips. They go to concerts. Concerts festivals, they go to sporting events together, but aside from that doing stuff with her two moms. This girl is not allowed to go out with her friends. She can only go to school and go to her job at subway, which was a little odd a little strict. I would say, but then more things start happening. That are making her kind of uncomfortable for example. Jenin Sarah Taker to the department store. They both work at for her to get a makeover, but she is. This girl is a tomboy and she's not interested in it, and she doesn't WanNa and she makes that very clear, but they insist she gets it anyway. So there's another time where they go to a Green Bay packers game together, and they bring footballs each bring football, hoping that they'll get them signed by a player specifically by Jen's favorite player running back Ahman. Green and actually the girl gets on to sign her football, but only hers. And as she. Says quote. It turns into a huge fiasco with jen accusing her that she had done it to be a brat. And so then June gives her the silent treatment for several days, wow! Yeah. So then in early That's just the kind of thing we're like. Is it me as you The vibe is weird like what's going on because that's not parent behavior now. In early two thousand six, the hearts make a big decision. They decide they want to adopt children and they include their foster daughter in the discussion They tell her to get ready to be a big sister. and eventually two sets of siblings come up to that are available for adoption, so Jenin Sarah travel down to Colorado County Texas to meet the kids and everyone is excited than in late February a week before the kids are to be placed in the Hearts Home Jenin Sarah take their foster daughter to a therapy appointment and Walsh's in this therapy employment. She finds out from her therapist that she's being moved to a new foster family. It's. That Day Holy Shit, so she's driven to the new foster home and when she gets there, all her stuff is already there holy crap and his shirl matic. Yes, and she never sees Jenner. Sarah again I'm like. Yeah when they're later asked why they gave their foster daughter up, genzer would tell people that the teen had suicidal idealization and threats, and that they did not want her quote. Negative energy to impact their children, Yikes but according to the now adult foster child. She has no idea why they let her go. The says none of those things. Those things were true about her. Wow, yeah, so that's our first big red flag. That's about as big as a red flag. Just giving up a child, because it's not a because, you WANNA Beasley start over yeah family, just like abandoning them at the fucking therapists to deal, and also it's a child that's already dealt with abandonment a child that's already told prices like that. It's horrible the okay, so on March. Fourth two thousand six three children from Colorado County Texas Abigail H, three Hannah Age, four Marcus Age, eight, our place in the hearts, care and six months later. They're adoptions finalized during that first year. Jen and Sarah Complete fifteen hours of training on topics like helping abused kids in. In Care Heal and something called racial diversity excitement, which basically trains people who are adopting children of different ethnicities to be proud of where they come from, and who they are. The case worker assigned to the heart family reports the Jenin. Sarah are great parents and she recommends that she recommends them to then adopt a second of siblings so in June of two thousand eight. They do just that Devante age six Jeremiah, age four and Sierra h three all move from Houston Texas to join the Hart family in Alexandria Minnesota Wow so they all six children now. Six, children, and these kids, mom, Devante, Jeremiah and Sarah's mom had addiction issues, and they had been living with their aunt. and their mom wasn't legally allowed to see them, and then a caseworker finds out the aunt is leading the mother mother visit, so all three children get taken away from the ant. Oh God. Yeah, which is. Horrible. Yeah I, mean it's so it's. It's so punitive in horrible. Totally so the next year two thousand nine same sex marriage becomes legal in certain states, so Jenin Sarah go to Connecticut and they get married and afterwards. They announced that Sarah's trying to get pregnant. A donor, yes, so they already have six kids, and now they're. Sarah's trying to get pregnant. Unfortunately, the plan doesn't work. They never end up having biological children so back in Minnesota. Sarah has a job as a manager in a department store and Jen is now a stay at home, mom and to their neighbors and co workers and their friends. The heart family seems to have a a really beautiful tight bond. They preach love and acceptance in unity. They go camping together. They go hiking together. They grow their own food. and they're very agendas active on social media when facebook comes along, she is. It and posting videos of the children constantly in all of their activities. And all of the different things that they do, and they basically are this beautiful example of this modern family to lesbian moms and six adopted black kids, but in September of two thousand eight, a teacher at the kids school notices that now six year old Hannah has bruises on her arm. So when the teacher asks her where they're from Hannah says that her mom whipped with a belt. ultimately no charges are filed, but Sarah Hall all of the kids out of the out of school home homeschool them over the next year, so the next school year two thousand nine Jenin. Sarah put the kids back into public school, but in November of twenty ten. The now seven year old Abigail tells her teachers about the always that she has on her back in her stomach. She tells them that her mom. Jen held her head underwater while punching hitting her because Abigail had a penny and Jen thought she stole it. Also God of course teachers reported his interview the kids they all report having been spanked and having food withheld from them as a punishment. When authorities interviewed, Jenin Sarah Sarah takes all the blame and in twenty eleven she pleads guilty to misdemeanor domestic assault and she gets a year of community service. And this, despite the fact that the children's basically say, jen is the one that's the most abusive the one who others take any responsibility for it yet, your. fucked up. Yeah, so later. That Year Hannah complaints to a school nurse that she's hungry. She tells her she hasn't been fed all day. The nurse calls. Sarah, who tells her, Hannah. is quote playing the Food Card? Just give her water. So yeah, so after this incident Sarah, Jen pull all the kids out of school for a second time, and from then on the heart, children are only home schooled. They never go back to regular school again. Then in twenty thirteen, the hearts leave Minnesota, and they move fifteen hundred miles away to the Portland suburb of West Linn Oregon, and they're they keep their natural peace-loving appearances. They raise goats and chickens in the yard of the rental house. They go to music. Festivals and Yoga retreats as a family again. Jan documenting it on facebook. And there's one video. I watched in. It was such a bummer There's this video that she posted and they were at At this thing called the beloved festival and it looks pretty hippyish looks pretty. You know kind of peace in love. Hippie Shin which is sorry. That's very negative, but so. Essentially, this is like a video that kind of foreshadows, the the viral photo that will be coming the next year. Essentially devante as wearing a zebra costume. Any has the word love shoved into his head and during a performer named excavator. He's on stage like sitting crosslegged, and he's kind of chanting like our Cappella, and it. Clearly, it's like one of the Yoga More Yoga Eve. Vessels I would assume yeah, and as he's doing it. You hear the audience start to go on like that, and here comes Devante, wearing his free hugs sign in as little in zero costume, and he walks up in hugs. This guy as he's chanting. And the guy like smiles and hugs him back and Vont doesn't let go, and this hug goes on for like two minutes, and it's very upsetting like if you watch the video, it looks like Devante, either crying or about to start crying and he won't let go was holding onto the stranger. Yeah, and it seems to me, and this is purely editorial, but that singer is is it starts out cute, and then he can feel that. This is like a child that needs a hug very badly that like it just and maybe it's just because. Knowing the whole story, but it's a very It's a very sad upsetting video, but it also was, it became like they became this family that was known at these festivals and known as at these you know these mea, or whatever is like the two lesbian moms and their kids, and so so that's the presentation of like the world. Care Peace and love peace and love, but it's like. But kind of there is that element of your parading your children around? There your props. Because there's another picture that I saw, and it had its jen and she has devante. Older with his free hug sign, and so it's just like look at my child and look at how. I. Don't know I guess. I rouses. Give us. Accolades. Yeah Yeah. So in which is look that's fine, but you know, but then the idea that then behind the scenes. It was like a fucking nightmare for those kids. It's horrifying, so the thing is that the hearts Oregon neighbors are skeptical they they are surprised at how small the children seem for their age. Is They also notice that the kids? They never see the kids being like loud or boisterous, or in any way like even Bradey. Like anything you see a normal kid like six kids piling out of a car. They say the kids all act like trained robots and more disturbing there clearly afraid of Jenn. In two thousand thirteen someone like an anonymous caller calls the Oregon Department of Human Services and reports that the kids pose, and are made to look like one big happy family, but right after the photo they go back to looking lifeless she. Yes so when child services interviews the family. Sarah and Jen say that this is bigotry that people don't understand their modern family dynamic that they're being. It's prejudice and they don't like the fact that they're lesbians are that they have a family and that's really what's happening when the kids are interviewed and when they're asked how they feel about their home life, they all say tell the social workers. They're happy, but their expressions are lifeless in. They don't seem happy at all but because there's no overt evidence of abuse, child services closes the case so two years later when Devante becomes a viral sensation, because of his free hugs photo, the Hart family now be becomes the subject of national attention and it's much more. More than Sarah and Jen want or are prepared for. devante gets offers from TV shows to be guest, but then they're also getting these death threats according to Jan, so the family decides, they had enough of the spotlight so in spring of two thousand seventeen. They move again and this time it's to woodland Washington to get to basically get away from the commotion Their New Neighbors are a couple named Bruce and Dana. dekalb, and the cowboys are very excited to get to know their new neighbors in this big bustling family, but they soon find out. It's not as easy. Easy as they thought it would be. The hearts in their children are usually inside the house with the blinds drawn most of the time, and when the neighbors do see them outside. They're not very social until a couple months later in August when the DEKALB's here and knock on their door at one thirty in the morning. It's Hannah. Hart and she's saying that she just dropped jumped out of her second story window. Her two front teeth are missing. They think she's like six or seven years old. She's fourteen years old while and she says to the DEKALB's. Don't make me go. Go back there. They're racist and they abuse us. She begs the couple to take her to Seattle, but before dekalb's can even figure out what's happening. Jen and Sarah show up at their front door. My God yeah, Jen asked to speak to Hannah privately upstairs, so they go into a separate room and then pretty soon after they come downstairs and they apologize, and they all leave, and then the next day the three of them come back and they've made Hannah right. An apology to the DEKALB's, and they explain that Hannah is bipolar and that she was upset because her cat died. And that she knocked her own teeth out in an accidental fall, and basically that was the thing. Apparently the they would say Jan would tell people these are drug babies, and so they're difficult sometimes anytime, people would be suspicious or anything it would be. She would use this drug baby. Excuse later. Dana dekalb would tell the New York Times. She was just. Just so convincing about John and Jen's excuses, and of course, the couple are left with a terrible feeling about their new neighbors, but after that strange night anytime, Dana in dekalb would try to speak to the heart children. They would not respond to her until six months later. The now fifteen year old devante shows up at the DEKALB's door, asking for food. And as Bruce feeds him, devante nervously asked him not to tell his parents. Bruce assures him he won't and then Devante visits. Visits, his neighbors for food like it's a weekly occurrence. He even leaves a wishlist of food. He wished like wants to have. And he asked them to leave groceries in the hidden box by the fence, so his mom's won't catch him. Oh, my, so this goes on for a little while dekalb's are of course totally torn. They don't WanNa. Break their promise to Devante, but they know that these children need. Need help so finally on March twenty, third, two, thousand, eighteen, they call child protective services, the Abbot do it but when a case worker shows up at the hearts house for a home check, no one answers the door and then the next day. The DEKALB's notice at the heart family car, which is a Yukon SUV is not in the driveway and the on that same day. Sarah's CO workers get. Get a text from her, saying that she sick and she won't be able to come into work tomorrow so two days later on the morning of Sunday March Twenty Fifth Gen. Heart is captured on a safeway. Security Camera in Fort. Bragg, California buying groceries and this is the last time anyone will see her. Alive. On Monday May Twenty Sixth Twenty Eighteen California police get a call at around three thirty eight. Eight PM from a German tourist. WHO's passing through? Mendocino county on highway one. It's kind of. It's just north of Fort Bragg in near a town called Westport, and she reports seeing an upside down suv at the bottom of a cliff huck. When officers arrived on the scene, they find the bodies of Jenn Heart in the driver's seat and Sarah Hart wedged between the smash roof and the rear seats. A search of the crash site continues for three weeks, and during that time the remains of three of the kids. Marcus nineteen, Jeremiah Fourteen and Abigail fourteen are all found near the SUV. the body of Sierra who's now. Twelve is found on the beach north of the crash site. It takes them a year to find fifteen year old Hannah's body. When they finally do find the skeletal remains in May of twenty eighteen. Her biological mother comes to give DNA. Can confirm that it is Hannah which is just devastating fifteen year old avantis body is never recovered. The crash is initially thought to be an accident. And I remember when these reports came out, and it was the accident because it was nor its northern. California so right, you know that it kind of broke up there I, but then the investigators notice there's no skid marks at the scene or any other indications that Jen tried to stop a car in any way. And then when the toxicology report comes back, it shows that Jen was drunk at the time of the crash, she'd had like the equivalent of about five beers. And that Sarah and at least two of the kids. had dicussion Hydra mean in their system, which is the active ingredient and Benadryl causes drowsiness. So when Sarah's phone records are recovered, this is when they know that it was not an accident. Because Gender Rove Sarah Google searched the phrases. How can I dose on over the counter? Medication can five hundred milligrams of Benadryl one hundred twenty five pound woman, and how long does it take to die from hypothermia while drowning in a car? What the fuck they so they? They realized they fully knew what they are doing. And when the cars this, this type of car has like a black box like computers writing and when they recover that an get the information from it. The the car speed at the time of the accident. It was going around ninety miles an hour, and there was no use of the brakes. Whatsoever Shit So. Basically Jen. Basically probably got drunk to to work up the courage to do this and the and then Sarah and the kids. Took a bunch of Benadryl, so they would be either asleep or Drowsy, and then she drove off one hundred foot, high cliff and killed her family in a murder. Hits you fucking do that. How could do it steer tour? How could you even bring your fucking self? y'All do that. It's it's. I mean and even wrap my head around that. It's so insanely bizarre, but clearly this things that were happening in that family look I I talked to my sister about this because my sisters. got a PhD in Child Development and Change and a teacher for certain. She knows all that stuff. And she's saying that whole thing of them keeping like isolating those kids, so they didn't have friends and the only connections they had were teachers, and when that started going bad, they cut that off, too keeping those kids inside the house, so no one could talk to them clearly the inside of that house, really bad things were taking place, and there was a podcast that came out like pretty soon after it happened. I think it's called the broken hearts. Yeah, it was. It was a whole series about this right? One of the things was they started. They found all this evidence that Jen was online like hours and hours a day playing a one of those communal games. I can't remember what it was called, but she so she's the APP. Stay at home, MOM! She's literally on the computer. She ran a game. She was like essentially. There's a there's a whole part where a guy gets on there and I. can't I had no idea. She had a family the amount of time she spent on this game. It like makes no sense. It's really it's, but it's like a really horrible bizarre mystery that that like. Like only the friends and family, and there's a lot of people who knew them from those festivals. Yeah, that you know had met them and bought into that they were like there was nothing that made them think except for the fact that those kids were tiny and skinny. Yeah, but other than that it was like these two very active involved MOMS, so it seemed that they just bought the whole presentation, and of course it's that thing of optics that it's the two dimensional life you present on facebook or you present in one picture. It makes everyone go. Oh good. That's what's happening. Goodbye I! Don't have to worry about that. That's it. And that's not the truth. And that is the awful reality of the life of devante heart, the crying boy, hugging the COP and twenty fourteen and the murder suicide of the heart family. Oh My god Jesus. That makes you cry. It's horrible. It's just so heartbreaking. Wow, good job, thank it. That's that's the reason. It's so much easier to like. You want to just look at A. A picture for three seconds. Okay, everything's been taken care of, but because this is sometimes what's on the other side riot? I think I think part of like why you and I and a lot of us love true crime is because it's that willingness to go. I do WANNA. Look at it, I do WanNa know the bad things that are happening I do want to see. What else there is, and what can be done, and what can be prevented and Ray. How how we make sure this doesn't happen anymore and an acknowledgement that your life isn't the only story that there's so many stories out there that you have to be hurt as well. Yana And a desire to hear them. Choosing a natural deodorant can often take trial and error. But there's one that checks each and every box of what the perfect dealer it should be, and it happens to be called each and every each, and every is gender. 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That's ten dollars off your order of thirty dollars or more every day from participating restaurants download the GRUB, APP Today and get ten dollars off your first order of thirty dollars or more. Is a case. I wanted to cover time, but I want to get it right. I'm GonNa tell you an unprecedented case in British history, and it's this murder that completely overhauled the British law and leads to changes in policing, and how people of Color are treated by the system. It's an epic story and this is the murder of Stephen Lawrence. I got information from. Chatham House. There's an article by Brian Cathcart from the independent The Guardian. BBC News, and article by Danny Shah. There's the little sweet baby angel on Youtube does true crime videos. Her name is Georgia Marie. Yeah. Isn't that funny? And she. She's British, so she kind of understand some of the nuances and. She had known about this case. All her life whereas I had never heard of it before. You know, see I've never heard of it. Yeah, Hagman, but it's huge there and then there's a documentary stephen. Lawrence Justice for murder, but it's on the real crime UK Youtube. It's really good. Okay I got a lot of Info from that so. Let me, give you some background Stephen. Lawrence is born on September Thirteenth Nineteen, seventy, four in southeast London in a neighborhood called plumstead, and it's in the Greenwich, borough, Stevens, parents, are Neville and Doreen Lawrence there jamaican-born. They're totally religious hardworking people, novels, a carpenter and a Taylor a plasterer. And aim kind of my GRANDPA was my GRANDPA was a plaster. My GRANDPA was the president of the plasters union in San Francisco to right. Yeah, sorry I just had to know. American up to be like what exactly is that? That's when the when the when you put up the drywall. And then you make the you put the thing on top, so it's like an actual wall. Yeah and then it's like goes beyond that with like the decorative like decorative What do they call them up? They're like wainscoting or the border Ya are like they can get really good at that stuff like that. Yeah, that's what he did only. Enduring is a special needs. Teacher and Steven is the oldest of kids. He is Super Smart. He excels at school. His brother later says that no matter how well he did in life, Stephen was always just a little bit better than him and one of those kids who like get it easy. Don't have to study So the vicar of his church, who knew Stephen and his family well called Stephen, and it's S., t. e., p., H., e., N., so it's not Stephen like Stephen. called it called him a delightful human being He loved to listen to music. especially. Solan are MB, and when he's just seven years old, he decides he wants to be an architect and nineteen ninety-three at eighteen, he studying for his a levels, which is like the end of Highschool in England and planning to go to university for architecture, so this has been his passion. Passion since he was seven and he this is what he was going to do with his life, and he's doing it. Yeah. The Greenwich Borough in the nineties is consists consisted mostly of white people. There's a lot of poverty, and because of this the people of color who lived there experienced a lot of racist violence and I think you and I both read about a lot of how it was there in the nineties and skinheads were rampant. Racism was the norm. Sorry I'm not saying it's not now either, but it almost was like. Y-, you know celebrated. It seemed at the time. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's how they do it. That's how the upper class keeps. The the working class down is they set? They pit people against each other right so in Greenwich. The the borough was actually one of the racist hot spots of the country at the time, and they're hundreds of incidents of racial harassment, being reported to police every year, but this just fueled Stephen and his family. You know they were determined to succeed in life. He was a really hard worker. He had a really supportive strong family that helped him believe in himself and. He was going to make it. So, but on the night eight of April Twenty Second Nineteen ninety-three about ten thirty PM after Stephen and his best friend to Wayne Brooks by the way they're both lack. They'd spend the evening hanging out and they're on their way home, attempting to catch a bus in the L.. Tham neighborhood when they don't see the bus coming. Stephen goes out into the street to see if it's like if you can see it heading down the road, so. dwayne from the sidewalk notices that there's a group of five or six white teenagers on the opposite side of the street. And dwayne calls out to Stephen to ask the buses coming, and then the teenagers notice the to Stephen Dillane, and they start shouting racial slurs at the two boys, calling them the N. Word, and then out of nowhere the entire group of these white teenage hoodlums run towards Stephen, and Dwayne Dwayne like run the opposite direction, but he stops when he realizes that Stephen hadn't run, and he had been surrounded by the group, and it's I know it's terrifying. It's later described as if they were engulfing him. Yeah and in the documentary that I watch St Lawrence Justice for a murderer they do reenactments that just like. It's terrifying so only if it lasts only like ten seconds the attack. But it's witnessed by three people who are also at the bus stop. Can You fucking imagine? And then the gang runs off and comes back grabs his friend off the ground, and he's like. Let's run case the comeback, and so they start running, but after about one hundred and thirty yards. Like can tell that his friend has hurt worse than he thought so he turns around. He's like what's what's going on, and he sees his best friend. Stephen Lawrence collapse onto the sidewalk. dwayne goes to a nearby phone booth calls nine nine and tells the dispatcher that he thinks his friend had been hit in the head with what maybe what he thought was a crowbar. He couldn't tell so dwayne. said you know he says send ambulance, and he tries to in the meantime to flag down passing cars, but there's not a lot of cars laid out late at night, but a couple who were walking home from a prayer meeting. At Church do stop to help. I know and meanwhile the bus arrives and the three witnesses get on and leave. twenty minutes after a leave, yeah! I know. One of the one of them was actually a friend of early lived in the neighborhood news, Stephen, so he went home and told. Parents, what had Hogan and then twenty minutes after the attack will twenty minutes instead of an ambulance showing up a police car shows up and Dwayne like. Kind of loses shit at this point because he's like my friend is seriously hurt. He can tell he's yelling and asking why. There isn't an ambulance and the police later report that they described him as aggressive and agitated, which is like well, no shit. Yeah, the officers who of course are trained in CPR, they test Stevens pulse, which is weak, but they don't find any other signs of head trauma as Dwayne reported so they're like Oh. That's not true, and then they do. Do see that Stephen is bleeding, but they don't actually check for any other wounds, and it's cold. It's in the middle of It's in the middle of April so it's cold, so he's all these layers on, so they don't take off his layers to see you know what injuries he has stead. They just leave him there. They don't administer any form of first aid and spend the time win for the ambulance questioning Dwayne like like as if he was involved in it. But it's obvious to even the by standards who had stopped that Stephen is struggling to hold onto life. So the woman who had been part of the prayer couple her name's Louis Taft. She puts her hand on Stevens head and whispers in his ear. Your loved your love over and over, and that's probably the last thing that Steven ever heard. when the ambulance finally does arrive, paramedics examined Stephen He's the sweet eighteen year old kid who's going to be an architect like it's just. It's so senseless the paramedics examined Stephen, and they don't find any vital signs than when they pick them up and load them into the structure. They're like Oh shit. There's a huge pool of blood on the ground beneath him. They had hospital around eleven o five thirty five minutes after the attack, and try to restart his heart, but ultimately successful and Steven is dead. meanwhile, he had been stabbed twice once. Once in his arm that hit a major artery, and then once through his collarbone, that hit another major artery. It was just these like. I I don't know it was who knows was by chance are on purpose. You don't stab someone to not kill them. Yeah, and it just nicked these two arteries. Perfectly, meanwhile, the crime scene, the scenes, not properly searched doesn't seem like anyone in charge. Instead the investigators focus their attention on Dwayne and his possible involvement, and what happens so instead of like searching for his attackers, which join is telling them have been a group of white teenagers yelling racial slurs. The police decide. It's too late to wake people up like going door to door. And they don't do anything. So as the investigation begins, the officers suspect Wayne had something to do with it. You know they thought maybe they got in a fight and went too far. Maybe it had something to do with drugs joined denies it. He insists that he in the attack was racially motivated. Attackers had been yelling the n word, and you know racial slurs. Police are able to track down all three witnesses who had been at the bus stop at the time of the attack. And they take their statements. It cooperates joins account so they can't keep fucking blaming him. All of them say that it was a sudden and short unprovoked attack. And then within twelve hours of the attack police get a ton of chips from around the neighborhood, including a witness who gives a suit pseudonym I. think he's like in head even so like he's fucking writing these people out, and there's an anonymous female who calls into the police, and an anonymous note is left on a police car windshield, and there's another one in phone booth like naming these specific people so over. Over the next couple of days, detectives received twenty six tips, many of which point the finger at the same suspects. All these tips point to local teens Gary Dobson and David Norris and they and their gang and they're known for racism. They're known for always carrying knives around with them. It's five boys altogether. They're all like sixteen or seventeen years old, and they're well known in the community and their schools troublemakers. They call themselves nut nutters with knives. Is there like gang nickname? Guys Yeah, one of the boys lives on the same street that the attack took place so two of the boys Neil and Jamie a court. They call themselves the Tham craze, which is a nod to the notorious Kray brothers, so they're already like obsessed with you know just like organized crime and and Fuck in violence. And Dennis the other kid dennis had been charged with stabbing a girl twelve months before it had been acquitted, so they're like God. They should be known. They should be the first people on the list to look to like bring in, and basically in the days following Stevens murder, they really did is put surveillance on one of the houses of the boys, and they watched and photographed, and you could see the photographs. One of the boys is leaving the House with a big black trash bag. Full of fuck and who knows what bloody clothes the weapon. We don't know because I never fucking stop them to check. What was in the bags just four days after the murder of Stephen Lawrence Detective Superintendent Brian Weeden. Says that no arrest taking place because there just wasn't enough evidence. but also he later claims that he hadn't heard a thing about the boys. The gangs the gang. And also he said that he didn't know. The law allowed arrest upon reasonable suspicion. He didn't know. He says he didn't know. The Detective Superintendent of the London Metropolitan Fuck Melito and I didn't know that I could take people in on reasonable suspicion. Well, maybe you should do brush up classes once a year about the law that you're supposed to be enforcing. That's the suggestion. And so this is just the beginning of this incredible. EPIC breakdown of the investigation and mishandling of information and evidence. This case becomes fucking huge in the UK and what possibly could have been a swift response, and maybe could have led to the arrest of these boys who had killed Stephen Lawrence. It goes nowhere. Meanwhile, police are insisting that the crime wasn't made racially motivated despite the attackers, not knowing their victim and yelling racial slurs while they attacked. When the police don't continue investigating Stevens parents, who are the fucking like heroes of this story, these incredible people, Neville and Doreen. They're so frustrated at the lack of progress in the they're getting mistreated by their victims liaisons like they're clearly under suspicion. which is driving them crazy? So they hold a press conference and say that nothing has been done about their son's death, and they say if if Arsenal is white, police would have cared more and done more. Yep. But you're so like fine. The police don't care about that, but guest Susan fucking town at this exact time. You're not gonNA guess. No Political Superhero Nelson Mandela. What dressier this is fucking in town and they have a connection to him and so Neville Doreen are able to meet with him with Nelson, Mandela explain their situation to him, and it's only when he speaks to the press. He goes out in front of his hotel to specifically speak about Stevens case that the police are finally shamed into action. She yeah, that's unbelievable unbelievable so the very next day on May seven two weeks. Weeks after Stephen had been murdered, police raid the suspects home, they arrest brothers Neil and Jamie a court and Gary Dobson, which seemed like the core group or the court. You know people in the raids. They find a number of weapons including knives as well as some clothes that they see is, but they they do they do. They don't do a full search. They don't rip up the carpet. Someone had given a tip that the courts had. Left their knives in a floorboard. They didn't look for them. You know it seemed pretty half asked. What is this again? Okay, so currently where in nineteen ninety-three? Oh, Shit, I thought it was the Seventy S. oh, fuck, so they bring the boys in for questioning, hoping that one of them will slip up and say something incriminating, but instead they get these boys who have clearly been coached, and how on how to say nothing, and they just constantly say no comment or I don't remember and despite the despite being traumatized and afraid for his life fucking doing the sweet baby who was the best friend is able to come in and pick to the boys out of a big lineup. And in his interview I mean. It's this kid is. It's incredible that he's able to do this so in June nineteen ninety-three. The Lawrence has are finally able to hold a funeral for Stephen, and there's a funeral procession through the streets of town following the hearst, and by this time there's a ton of anger in the black community, and you know throughout London and there's a huge crowd outside the church, and it said that Neville enduring composure, and like they had this incredible air of like. strength on June twenty six the Crown Prosecution Service or CPS. Drops all the charges against all the boys citing insufficient evidence. which is a huge blow to Stevens parents, and at this point, public criticism against the place is huge and growing marches are being held protesting the lack of police response to the murderer, and in the violence that is perpetrated against the community. One interesting thing is that standard procedure for any unsolved murder in Britain to have an internal review of the police handling of the case, which I think is really fucking cool. So having a cold case, you can't just sit. There has to be reviewed so one is done for Stevens murder. It's called the Baker report and it gave the investigation into Stevens murder. Basically a fucking all good here nothing to see here. No really yeah. They're like no looks fine to us. So of course again, his parents, Delta, blow and the family and the whole community. And Eventually Bill Mellish. This becomes the new lead investigator, and he orders surveillance on one of the kids Gary Dobson and his flat, hoping the gang. We'll talk about murder, so it's so fucking crazy in December ninety four. They put a tiny hidden camera in a plug socket in this, this kid's flat. Oh Shit! Yeah, and so the footage you can see it in the documentary like the legit footage. These kids are fucking. They're crazy A. ACT, out beating people, they take knives and pretend to stab you know into the wall and the the way they speak about who they WANNA, kill, and how and it's all you know minorities is horrific. It's Yukking. I it's terrifying I. Mean the footage shows them with knives at all times, racial slurs and the same footage shows kid, Neil, a court with a knife on him at all times so like the pattern fits the murder, but since they don't actually admit to the murder, which is incredible that they didn't. They're still not enough evidence to take anyone to trial. The Lawrence family refuses to give up Netherland during they want justice. Justice for their son. They'll do anything for it and a year. After the murder, the family initiates a private prosecution. Another thing they have in the UK what that means is instead of the charges being made on behalf of the population by the crown prosecuting service, so instead of like being with us, it would be like the state of California, versus whatever instead of that and individual, an individual's able to make charges privately. So, it's really rare there but in April nineteen ninety four one. Year after the murder of their son, Lawrence's they do this against the initial suspects Jamie, a court. Gary Dobson and David Norris who they had the most evidence against, so it's only three five which socks, but you know they want to see justice done. Yeah! The family isn't entitled to Legal Aid for this motion, so a established to pay for the analysis of forensic evidence and the cost of tracking down and re interviewing witnesses and all of the council on the case work pro bono, and it's headed by Michael Mansfield which it's like really awesome so in April, nineteen ninety six now the case finally comes to court with Dwayne. Dwayne Dwayne is the main witness for the prosecution because he was able to pick out people in a lineup. Explain what happened that night. The case rests on the evidence given by him the night of the murder as well as the lineup that just said that and some of the surveillance video from the flat is going to be used as well the by then. dwayne is super, emotionally fragile. It's he's I'm sure. Suffering from PTSD, absolutely had this enormous survivor's guilt, and so this young man I think he's like twenty at the time has all this pressure like the case rests on his shoulders being the most. He's probably scared for his life is it's these same he was? You know what happened to him to. And they are in court. Right horrifying and another thing that I haven't talked about yet. Is that one of the Kids David Norris? His father is like a kingpin, fucking criminal in like high-powered criminal drug dealer in town. So. He's scared for his second life for sure for sure, so he falls apart on the witness stand and his evidence is ruled inadmissible. I know. And the jury never gets to see the railings footage, and so on April twenty. Fifth Nineteen ninety-six. The three hour quitted. which also under British law means they can't be tried again because of double fucking jeopardy, even if they later confess to the murders, they can't be traded for them. And these fucking assholes are smirking and being cocky as they leave the courthouse, you know people are like crowded around the courthouse. They throw shit at them. But at this point, the public is like fuck this shit, and so another inquest into Stevens. Murder finally concludes that this was an unlawful killing in a completely unprovoked racist attack by five white youths. So finally they acknowledged what actually happened and here's the thing. Despite how long this has been going on for and everything that had happened legally in the media. No one knew the identities of the five suspects how they had been underage when it happened, so it just have been these like five face, nameless faceless kids, but now fuck in our. Our frienemie Daily Mail steps in. And you know I mean now we know, and of course Georgia Marie was like everyone knows. Daily Mail. To their credit, and The horrible tabloid paper, but to their credit the editor Paul Decorah. He knew Neville Lawrence personally because Neville had plastered Paul's House Oh shit and Paul was quoted as saying quote. He did a lot of plastering work. He was clearly a very decent hard working man, so they have connections to Nelson Mandela at they have connections to Paul, Dogra Cheese, amazing, and so on February fourteenth nineteen, ninety-seven, the Daily Mail runs huge front page story it says in huge writing murderers. The Mail accuses these men of killing. If we are wrong, let them. THEM SUE US and they host every photo of the kids, and every not kids are men. Every photo of the killers and all of their names Jeez it. That's this incites crazy political debate, and whether it's okay to have done this and eventually the Prime Minister John Major comes forward and says the Daily Mail had broken no laws, and and I know and none of the five kit people, none of the five teens ever come forward to sue, and you know they probably Daily Mail probably wanted to. Because then they could depose them. Get their fucking high powered lawyers to crack them so I bet they were wanting at least one of them to sue and they didn't because they probably knew that it's so. It's like the one time tabloid. Does something decent? Ya Like I didn't know there were stories like this. And you know what it is. It's kind of it's kind of draws drives. You crazy because. It's because the editor had met a Neville right and probably have these preconceived notions of people of color and meets one and he's like. Oh, he was actually a hardworking man when it is wrong because of my ray singly every experience, every other parent to any other fucking child is probably a hardworking person to, and they don't get this opportunity, but it was amazing that Lawrence has got the opportunity and used it and used it yes. Yes in this one circumstance, also if it's gone, which is how it normally happens tabloids, which is, they don't have to write, we decide. We accused because that's what they do. When they just put up and blatant lies, and you know the first thing I think of his Madeleine McCann's parents where they tried and convicted those people totally in the press. I mean who are It's just it's such ugly business, but would it's tiny. Shining. Silver lining there and it's because. These men were guilty. It's not you know all right. So the next day the video evidence of the boys inside the flat is released, and so people just the anger fucking grows the racism and the knives, and the reenacting the attacks, and so on the thirty first of July in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty seven. More than four years after Stephen Lawrence was murdered home, Secretary Jack Straw announces yet another inquiry into a the judicial. Part of this case and it's led by retired. High Court Judge Sir William McPherson and this would go on to be known as the McPherson in Korea or the macphail McPherson report. Eventually it comes out in February ninety nine. It's a three hundred and fifty page report concludes that the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence had been quote marred by a combination of professional competence, institutional racism and a failure of leadership and the officers in the Metropolitan Police specifically involved are named, and the entire force is criticized. It's this huge sweeping declaration of law enforcement in the UK, and it's really negative pisses a lot of people in the institution off the term institutional racism. Racism was first coined, and I use in nineteen, sixty seven in the book black power. The Politics Liberation and Sir William McPherson defines it as quote, the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their color, culture or ethnic origin it could be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour, which amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping, which disadvantage minority ethnic people so out that whole definition becomes like huge talking point. Yeah, he just puts it right on the paper their. Noble McPherson puts forward a total of seventy recommendations that are designed to show zero tolerance for racism and to improve practices within the met, and they include measures that would transform you know the whole attitude of police towards race relations and also improve accountability. And the response of the government is like Otit sorry about that and the Home Secretary Jack Straw. who had called for this inquiry? He accepted the charge of institutional racism and he's like Yeah, it's not just in the police. He says quote any long established white dominated organization is liable to have procedures, practices and a culture which tend to exclude non white people. Yeah, he also said that some truths were uncomfortable, but they had to be confronted. Within two years sixty seven, the reports recommendations led to specific changes in practice or in the law in UK sixty seven to seventy, the recruitment retention and promotion of black and Asian officers and the creation of the independent police complaints. Commission that has the power to appoint its own investigators is created, and as a result of this report, the entire force enacted huge change from the top down the. The report even made recommendations to change in the national curriculum, so they wanted to change the correct the curriculum of the UK that would prevent racial prejudices and foster culture of diversity, as well as saying that racist incidents in school should be reported to people's parents. and a record should be published by each school every year like we should. They should be held accountable for it. And it was noted that especially they needed to reestablish the trust between the minority ethnic communities and the police. Wow, so this is great, but still no one being held responsible for actually murdering Stephen and all five men. Still Walk Free and some of those crimes are racially motivated. Just showing the they're continuing. You know they're probably cocky about it now and flaunting they fucking thing they got away with. Yes got away with it four time. But in two thousand five as part of the recommendation of the McPherson report, here's okay ready for this. The Rule of double jeopardy is repealed. Get entirely. It's repealed in murder cases, and it's decided that a person acquitted of murder could be brought to trial again on the basis that fresh and viable new evidence comes to light, so the Lawrence's were like this is our fucking chance. A secret cold case review begins and they start to search for new evidence and finally in November two thousand fucking seven. That's happened in nineteen ninety-three. It's November two thousand seven. It's shared final. The investigators have forensic evidence on including a microscopic stain of Stevens blood on the collar at Gerry Dobson's jacket. WHOA, they went through all the clothing that were had been sealed up for so long, and they searched it. They found fibers from Stevens. Clothing an hairs that had a ninety nine point nine percent chance of having come from Stephen on both Dobson's jacket and David nurses jacket, while dark. Jeans so finally. Science has caught up and it's able to fucking bear witness to what happened and yeah, okay, so Gary Dobson and David Norris arrested and charged on September eighth, two, thousand and ten. unfortunately they're the only ones that there's enough evidence against you know meaningfully bring them to trial. Dobson's original acquittal is thrown out and Norris hadn't been previously acquitted, so it's announced at the two face trial for the murder in light of the new and substantial evidence on November Fifteenth Two Thousand and Eleven David Norris and Gary Dobson go to trial and Knowing this was probably the last. Last chance to get justice for her son. Doreen Lawrence is in court every day. Oh the forensic evidence on three different pieces of clothing is the main evidence and Dewayne. Instead of having to you know, have it all on his shoulders is able to give testimony describing what happened on the night. His best friend was murdered so the night before he was to testify Duan's father died. And he's like I'm coming to court anyways to buy, and he fucking shows up for his best friend. Yeah, he's got the second chance. And all they want from him. This time is to tell them what happened to him. They don't need him to identify anyone. Science is doing that. You know yeah. I just want his story exactly yeah. the surveillance video shown and showing that they are capable of this crime. which is what the video does. It's almost like it in the judge could have ruled inadmissible which I could totally see here in the US but really it shows character and a PAB yes, so after three days of jury deliberation. Nineteen years after the fact on January third twenty, twelve, Dobson and Norris are found guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence. And they're sentenced to life with a minimum term of fifteen years and two months, Dobson and fourteen years and three months for an unfortunately the judge says the sentences that seem kind of light reflect the fact that they were both juveniles at the time of the offence which sucks because otherwise they would have gotten thirty years minimum right. In June twenty thirteen. There's okay, so there's an interview with former undercover police officer named Peter Francis that comes out in June. Two, thousand thirteen, and the Guardian and he is like fucking spilling it. He's like I was working undercover within an anti-racist campaign in the mid nineties. He is like I was constantly pressured by my superiors to hunt for disinformation and taint the credibility and reputation of the Lawrence's. That's what he was tasked to do is to make them look bad. Somehow you know you always see these like yeah, but you know. He had cove it or he had, he had arrest record for petty theft, or his parents were drug addicts. It's like this thing of every time every time. There are people whose job it is to do that so that you don't care anymore about. Them and about just just remember that next time you hear like information. Yes, I'M GONNA fucking. Shit, say I went to Rehab for math. It doesn't mean I don't I? Don't deserve second, good and happy life you know. That that's right. I don't want to talk about that I. Don't WanNa talk about. I think that's a very good point. Georgia because that's also the disparity between white and black experience. Right because that's like the guy that came forward and said George Floyd Ni- when we were eighteen, we both got arrested for passing fake twenty dollar bills. Now it's a story. I tell at dinner parties. That's cute and he's dead. That's right. And that's really that's what that's. What the point you're making I. Mean thank you. I tell you. I will tell you the point unseen, not surprising to anyone. There's no dirt on the Lawrence is to be found there. fucking good people ball in Allison Mandela loves, said Van de loves them. So you know that comes out, it's this huge scandal. It's really fascinating There's a lots insane on. There's a lot like then it sounds like a conspiracy theory like if you found that out and told people people be, you're insane. I mean. I was reading some of these accounts of other undercover cops that we're talking about infiltrating anti-racist campaigns there infiltrating. the animal cruelty Organizations, anti animal cruelty. Their infiltrating them and they're fucking shit up in that organization on purpose. I mean like the people who let the car on fire I don't forget for a second believed that they weren't working for someone and under someone's orders. Absolutely well at this point I feel like nothing is passed that kind of right. It all it all bears, considering because who the fuck knows. What's going on I think what we're saying as it goes all all the way events. Always has always has an let's because. It's built on A. Foundation Okay Yeah. okay, so since then amazing Doreen has set at the Stephen Lawrence charitable trusts, and they quote work with young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to inspire and enable them, and we all they said we also influence others to create a fairer society, in which everyone regardless of their background can flourish. There's also an annual architecture award. Am An Stephen Lawrence Research. Center! Which Marine is chancellor of the university appointed and twenty sixteen. That's de Montfort University. Wow She. Altering also receives a fucking lifetime achievement award at the fourteen. Th Pride of Britain Awards in October twenty twelve. She's given the title of Baroness. On September six, twenty thirteen, which is a very rare honor for civilians that doesn't happen. Yeah, they don't usually. We did the Queen show up one of the lesser royals. Yes or is that how it works? Maybe there are the chancellor I dunno, she should hit on the Labour benches in the House of Lords, as a working peer specialising in race and diversity. That's right, so she's up in it now and on April twenty, third, two, thousand eighteen. There's a memorial service charge mark the twenty fifth anniversary of Stephen's death and Prime Minister Theresa May announces that Stephen Lawrence Day would be an annual national com commemoration of his death on the twenty second of April every year, starting last year and twenty nineteen, so he day now. Wow, meanwhile, it's been over twenty five years since the murder of Stephen Lawrence which is one of Britain's highest profile killings in history. Dramatic reforms in the way police handle racial racially motivated crime, which is thanks and Stevens legacy. But. Of course it's like the US it's there's deep seated racism and It's it's not perfect. It's not close to perfect and a lot of changes still need to be made in society and in the justice system, during says that she would like Stephen Subaru remembered as a young man who had a future and Doreen and Neville, Lawrence They have Stevens body buried in Jamaica. Saying that London didn't deserve him. On that is the murder of Stephen Lawrence and I want to also say that his charitable trust is at Sieben, and it's S., t. e., p. h., E. N. Lawrence Dot Org dot UK, so you can check that out too amazing. How isn't that? Wild yeah, thanks torrisi million for her research. Then I mean. That was a hard one. Great Job, thank you guys for listening and for being here with US and and for participating. Yeah, we appreciate you showing up. Let's keep showing up. Let's keep showing up and doing our best and and and getting in this fight and doing what we can. I don't know. Stay safe and stay fucking angry. And say Sexy Oh and don't get murdered. Elvis you want a cookie.

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