20 Episode results for "Brian Rob"

Introducing Boston Sports Beat!

Boston Sports Beat

00:52 sec | 8 months ago

Introducing Boston Sports Beat!

"Okay, welcome in everybody to the Boston Sports beat daily Sports podcast brought to you by the Boston Sports Journal. This is a one-of-a-kind podcast. First of its kind in the region bringing you daily sports news featuring some of your favorite reporters and talent in the market all of whom you can read exclusively at Boston Sports channel that of course is great. But dark covering the Patriots Sean McAdam on the Red Sox Conor Ryan covering the Bruins and Brian Rob on the Celtics. That is the Boston Sports beat daily podcast thought to you by Boston Sports Journal episode one is going to be Monday August 31st, please be sure to tune into that and subscribe everywhere podcasts are available. and the news

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EP168: Girls Proposing to Guys!

I Don't Get It

1:09:19 hr | 1 year ago

EP168: Girls Proposing to Guys!

"Howdy Ho neighbor. Joe resigned from From Anywhere Howdy. Ho Neighbor home improvement named Joe. Not Joe. Oh my God now. You're making me forget it. It's he can't see his mouth. Yeah it's not fun. I don't tell me I won't talk amongst yourselves. Ho Neighbor Joe. I'm pretty sure is still from home improvement and I think that's what what's his name uses. I I know I know Al is Alice. How was the one that said? Howdy Ho Ho. How he never said neighbor Joe. Whatever I've been neighbor is Wilson guy you guys That was a very long intro. Fifty three seconds just for me to say hello. I don't get it listeners. It's actually Nasr and jared today. We'LL JARRETT IS GONNA join us for a little bit and then we're going to get some callers on who have proposed to their men so women proposing to men. Is the topic for today. Came up with it. How did you come up with it? Because I have a friend who originally proposed to her boyfriend. I think it was at your wedding. 'cause BRIARS WHO WE'RE GONNA call. Which is Ashley Laurence? Good friend was a bridesmaid as wedding and we were talking. I was talking to Briar because she actually drove me to Rhode Island from New York. So we've got to get close. And she was telling me she wanted to propose and I was like. We have two podcasts on women proposing to men that is so bad ass and I just feel like it's so it's such a cool thing. That's not the norm that I would love to sort of deep dive and just get under the psyche as to. Why would I think I would do it? Hugh imagined on the bachelor if a woman proposed to a man and says it's twenty twenty. I think it's time right. What do you think? Jared what well actually. I didn't briars also very special personality. I always loved her laugh. I I've ever met so briar is Asian. I'm not sure where she's from she's a she's okay from Korea and you know she is. She has a very odd laugh. At eight you've facetime with Briar. And it was I ever saw. She just popped up and she was like Ashley. You're engaged. Awesome laugh anyway. That's my way. What does that have anything to do with her proposing nothing? I'm just kind of giving the context of the question. I've always wanted to ask you this because everyone no of course not fuck. Now you wouldn't have proposed jared really. I think they are you. Are you kidding me first off why I know you? I know you love tradition. You're more traditionalist but I don't know your you love so hard I could see you. I was thinking you said you went ahead with her. I said yes in the moment because I have always one selfishly. I've always wanted to be the person to propose so I'm not saying which gender should propose but for my own lifestyle. I wanted to be the one to propose because it's a moment that I always envisioned right. And so I remember when Briar talked about it. I think rob with I think he was not okay with it at first and then he came around. They laughed about it one night at a bar. Oh I thought it was absolutely tell us I think that you say it's cool and everything but do we really want to change that tradition. I'm not saying I think that with rose go for it. You can do it but like don't want to hear like Oh it's twenty twenty. It's whoever's job you WANNA make it no like. I wanted to still be the guy's job sorry. I am a traditionalist in this. If a girl wants to be like the odd one off I don't mean like she's weird me like one of the minority. Let's put the pressure on women. Were put the pressure on you guys to plan by the Ring Dreary Art. Change it up a little bit Jerry. You guys have time for you guys to feel the pressure of making sure. The engagement goes well our biological quad. What's your pressure say? Yes I'm just GONNA sit in this corner jared your plan contrary. Internet and it's very annoying. You we have it like when you guys over these as you're the ones that just want to play over spread the seed and we have one thing left. How do you view that as do you think it's women have to win men over now? I now. I don't even do a win win over but I think that when you look at history and you look at all the enhancements and everything that women do sort of I mean. Of course now's twenty twenty. We'd do it for ourselves but historically women would dress up for and I think that's actually is referring to. Yeah just like we have for a lot of work into everything. There's one thing that you guys get to do. You don't even have to be you you give the sperm. Which is pleasurable. And then you ask a limited proposes all you gotta do. That's a lot that's the woman that's a lie as a man that is that is. Jerry will say here because he knows he's being annoying like the tradition of it. You would never want to be proposed to you would never want to be proposed to now. Of course not it. Both men probably wouldn't either. I would say most women probably also don't want to be proposed. They don't WanNa be think about it. We should have. We should do this. Podcast again and just interview guys and ask them if they would like it. Because we're technically this podcast. We're getting the female perspective on it and that is interesting. I wonder if guys it's obviously case by case everyone's different so harder. Komo such a Douche bag now. I say the things that I truly believe. You're being contrarian right now I was just thinking of gender roles in general and it's a deep dive. I mean such so. We're we're not covering that today. Obviously and I just want to say that I I I like it the way it is. I will say to as much as I admitted that I would propose. My preference is for a guy to propose to me. That's just sort of always been my dream in my head but if I like someone so much I think it would be sort of. I think for me though. Jus I love surprising people and gifting things and like making extravagant things happen and I can do that without without a kind of feel like whoever proposes to me like I kind of feel like I'd probably do a better job and I don't even know him yet. Okay well that's one say. Yeah I that it needs to be extravagant. I WANNA redraws. What you said about me proposing jared and like thinking that I would do. I thought you would think about what I went through with him. No no no I. That would be so desperately sad. There would be sad if I went after him. That was what it was that moment of him. Proposing to me that it was like oh I was right all along and he loves me back. It's all reciprocal. That was the moment of complete. Also make the argument. I totally get that and I agree with you like for you mentally. That's exactly how I feel. I just mean in general. Let's say you're an jared story was different and it was easier quicker. I'm saying in general. You strike me as someone that loves so hard that you maybe be would again. The biggest one could make the argument and almost would have been poetic if you propose to me Jarrett. You're now you're going to be a figure serious and they're going to be annoyed. You were all headaches. Of course I am jared. Only that's all he. Does you know he likes to make the argument. You're always going after me was only fitting in the end that you're the one who got on one knee jared and he loves Mohsen. Life is taking aside that he doesn't believe in and trying to argue it. Which is what I short. Which is why like you'd be a great lawyer because like a murderer could come to you and be like Hey. I murder the guy and then you'd be like okay. Well I gotta find a way to prove that he didn't murder the guy what I enjoy is looking at all sides of things I enjoy looking at situations from the outside and seeing both cases of the argument goes every and I think most people should be like that. I think you should say like to play devil's advocate just because I'd rather say he wants your feelings your purse you know my feelings. I told you I wanted to propose I I would never fault or or She quote unquote. Shame anybody if the girl wanted to rose I think it should be the role within the relationship. Not Gender Roles in general the role with Brian Rob knowing their personalities. It fits that. She proposed weight because same sex marriages. Whenever I ask my I always say who. Who if you guys end up wanting to walk down the aisle like who do you think would propose and my friends would always say? Oh well he or she is more likely to be the one to propose so I feel like that brings up a really good point. Yeah the relation. One of my closest friends is gay. His so rob consider names. Rob Is definitely more of the man in the relationship or luke is definitely more Entertainment Energy very quaint and wants the. What's the word I'm looking for wants? Rob Is far more. The pants in the relationship the charts so rob would be the one to propose relationship. It's interesting another another gay friend Gay Gay couple of Friends of ours deemed me in response to the request for this podcast. And he said he was like I'm not going to name them and be like so and so usually contact so and so for this because I know that they are planning to have the so-and-so oppose in that relationship and it's just funny that all the pressure is on that one. So maybe we do. Maybe this is part. One Hetero guys part two and then we'll do same sex marriage females on here we've done. I've been asking on because it'd be interesting. I think it'd be interesting from a perspective of a lesbian couple same sack. Css You say not only just same sex but females because with there's two guys in a relationship it's kind of known that one of them will propose where the females of course somebody's GonNa propose but it's just like it's so contrary to what tradition is. I would love to hear their perspective on it. I think he's exactly what you said. I think there's a role in a relationship Niagara. Hang is if you take birth control of any kind. Listen because we are about to change your life actually learn and I recently discovered simple health. They are a new sponsor and they are just everything simple. Health is about making birth control simple convenient and affordable with online prescriptions and. Get this free home delivery. So whether you are listening to this and you're brand new to birth control or you're just tired of dealing with renewals and pharmacies. Simple health will take care of you. All you guys have to do is fill out an online health profile. Then a doctor will review it. And they'll decide if you're a good candidate for birth control and then they'll write you a prescription and you can pick the birth control you want or you can have a doctor recommend the best one for you. 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Gyi anytime to talk more about things that I don't. There's a lot of things about women I don't get. There's a lot of things about women interaction. I talk about this with Ashley. We're big loud. I get so overwhelmed when it's Youtube and Lauren when you guys are here I can't hang out with you. Guys can't do it because he it's it's he region three different conversations all happening at the same time. But you still all understand what each other is saying. And I'm just trying to keep up in understanding. Okay Ashley said that in the NASA this then how does this fit in and then just like dude escalate car for my birthday martyr than us? Why you can't get the male brain is very easy. It's like I can watch football. I don't need much I just need what say I need like? I don't need much. You know what I mean like I can focus on one thing only focus on one thing now so when you indeed first of all you guys obviously probably already listened to help. I suck dating. South Army has shown me so. You see what you zine. Who HOSTS THAT PODCASTS? Talk You guys. Never talk over each other. No we do. But it's not you guys jump to another topic based off something Dean said. You're never like Oh this writing what you do is we're deny we'll talk about a topic for like a couple of minutes and then jump off that you guys it's literally one sentence and then it's over. My friend did this. And then oh but they did this. Oh did you see this like Skanky little bitch on Instagram? Or You guys say I mean is that we don't say that I'm being facetious for dramatic effect. Coversation like that's how our minds are to life on that train of conscious guys multitasking. We DO HOT FROM ONE. Another so quickly. Yeah we were looking for my birthday. And it was me learn lizzy and he's like God out of the car I can't do. I can't do it and it makes me sad. No and if you being around like my girl time it's because what I do as as as guy it stresses me out because I'll try to engage in the conversation because I want I don't want to be a jerk. I WANNA be a part of the group so I'll I'll try to like interject but by the time I'm interjecting you guys are like. I'm three topics behind Tony. I mean because it takes a minute for me to formulate my thoughts and then I'll and then I'm waiting for an opportunity to say something your thoughts with but then by the time I try to say something and by the time the opportunity presents itself. I'm already four times behind you guys and and then I say something and you guys don't give a rat's ass anyway because most of the time it's it's a guys thought so it's boring where you guys are everything. Everything is so dramatic is going to be a little bit more righteous in moments like that. It's like we'll have you ever thought about it this way. We're like fuck no we shut it down. What do you think insurance like well? No that doesn't make and of course you would say generous. It's like okay I get it okay. Well we'll get you to tell briars said hello and you come on and we'll do like a real. I don't get it. I would love that. You should get two guys on here. Why are you indeed? Why don't we do a crossover that you'd have to ask? Sugarman FOR HELP. I said okay. I've seen and I would definitely come on here. That's for the PODCAST. Definitely listen to help. Dating and iheartradio pocket has sacked suck. Army all right. Let's call Brier Burra Brier brier. We've talked about you a lot already. We love you. I love you guys to talk to Ashley. Okay I want you to start the story of year engagement at the Bar. The night that you and rob joked about you proposing to him and I need all the details. Like don't feel like you're talking too long because I know you. You could actually talk forever and everybody would be entertained. I don't say this everyone well. You know what to be totally honest. It's unclear whether it was at a bar or at house or just like on the bus. I have no idea all I know is that I was at the point where you're drunk so you think everything's a good idea but you're not so wasted that you're about to block out or anything like that everything that comes out of your mouth or into your head. It sounds like the best idea. Ever been there you and Robert Together for how long at that point very question maybe like a year and a half to two years and you were the one sober. Yeah always resigned. Was the one hundred percent. Yeah well you knew that we were going to get married. We talk about getting buried and I guess we're talking about proposals and I again obviously thinking that it is the best time which was like rob. Why why would why would I not just post you? My thought process of my head which I agree with sober. Is You know I think we all the same way at to anyone out there? Every single picture that we see an instagram is literally of like the guy posing to the girl or all. The stories are alike under. When did he do it? And that's the kind of the assumption and it just made no sense to me if you love your person just as much as they love you like. Why did they decide? You know what I mean like any kind of like no trip that we go on any kind of Nice dinner that we go on the execution that he just might do it versus me having the power and maybe it's a power thing unclear like a those were. The main reasons was just that I felt like it was unfair to always have the guy Be burdened or be the one that decides when it's time to propose and had the girl be surprised at the second thing that I thought about. I love that that's great. Sentiment is a good reason it makes me wonder about the power though because sometimes I would think. The girl had the power in that situation in some way because she's the one that's respond responding and the one hype about being in a very weird way begged like on the knee eggs to another person's. Wish you know behind lies in in that C- about side. Yeah keep going. What was your other reason? Oh well this is the second reason that I had. This is what I thought about too. I'm like you know in my sober. Follow up moments of just like I. Would you know? Be Walking to work and I would rehearse what I would say in my head him or all lake. The romantic gestures that I could do for him or tell him how much I love them. How much I wanted to marry him and it just having fun I was like this is like a once in a lifetime. Opportunity that You know is like just incredible like I could really like craft something that could just bring me and him like so much joy rape right. So the fun factor. Friends friends extra extra. I am so excited to tell you about. 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Don't forget our Promo Code. Get It for twenty percent off your first order. So do you think that you'd be better proposing than rob more career a great question? Because I wasn't I wasn't that great of all my God that's hilarious. I know but I love that question because I was telling Ashley that I've never even met my person yet and I love surprises and I really do go all out that I already feel like not. Even knowing who he is I would probably with a bomb ass proposal. You know you really would. That's a good point. So did you think that. Maybe it's the little that kind of comes back to the control and the power thing. I would try to think of like so many different more creative scenarios like dude at our favorite restaurant if he had no idea that our favorite wages would come up with like this like sue he played in bringing it and I don't even know I don't know I don't know I think we're I think we're both have the amounts of creative ability when it comes to proposing okay so that definitely was the reason you're you're going to say so that came to the point where you yeah and it kind of just kept coming up. I guess says we were hanging out. I did try to backpedal a couple of times Especially in I was just like I started to think about that. Sorry prior can we go back? I sex so when you said what was rob's reaction and like how did he respond like what was that conversation like while you were drunk from what you remember. Great question a he was he was all for it. He was like if you go for. It sounds great. Like he's always been so supportive in terms of my poor ideas. I don't think it's a forty and then every time that you tried to backpedal in the in the topic would come up again. He would still be like no. I think this is good. You guys talked about marriage so openly that lay right totally freeing up proposal wasn't like the smashing of a dream but this walking through the backpedal. Did you wake up the next morning? Like oh Bok. I was wasted. Like why do that? How did that come about the core backpedal kind of evolved? Everything's we talked about at that. First night. It kind of evolved into like a light joke or at least in my mind. It was like a joke between the two of us. Go with our friends. You'd be like oh well she's GonNa propose you know we tell like his parents like O'Brien that you can propose ha ha ha or so I thought and so one the one time I really tried to backpedal got really sad. I was like Oh man like I'm never going to have a guy get one. Donald Means Prize me and like have my like you know fairytale princess moment that I imagined what since I was little so one day I did. It was like I was like you know what you know what bad I wouldn't be bad if you propose to me he goes. It's too fucking late like you've already told somebody people's that this is. I story prior all that God would know. You didn't do it for other people though. Ray I hope wait but did you want it? Brian technically it wasn't too late. Did you secret legally like right now. Do you secretly wish that he would have. And so. This is I think this is where our situation. It's a little bit unique in the sense that he could he could tell. That was like a little sad because I am more traditional and just because I got drunk. One night doesn't mean it to determine our fate forever but he was just like well. You know when you've proposed me I can also propose back to you on. I love that. Like both of you proposing exactly but it's like sounds Kinda lame but like basically what happened is I think about a year before I asked rob to marry me I had gone home to Virginia and my mom had given my sister and I are bunch of like family jewellery that she had found and in there was an a ring. That looks like an engagement ring and I was like. Oh my gosh is just perfect. It's gorgeous I love the idea of having something that's been in. My family continued to be in my family so I brought it home to rob and was like what do you think about using this for our judgment ring and we can get our own wedding rings and he was like it's beautiful like let's do that to be got it resides pretty quickly And then we just had it sitting in our apartment you know for about a year before I proposed So what I did was when I asked him to marry me. Millimeters I'm jumping too. Far Ahead is in the box of things that I gave him because I knew I wanted to give him some kind of physical memento to mark the question as opposed to just asking a man engagement ring. No I'm very anti that. I don't know why I don't know I think it's just like for that if maybe I had. Because I don't want any new for fact that I was not I was like I am not that traditional so you weren't going to get done on one knee and you weren't going on him a ring. No I guess that's a good question I don't know why just seem very anti idea. I'd like to try to like woke for your like if I'm GonNa do this my way. I'm going to completely do it. My Way and not just like switch. Yeah yeah and also like man. Engagement things rigs aren't as much of a thing right. The they've happened but you know they have been derailed. Wait why my friend just texted me and asked me if he's engaged brig everyone's heart like out of nowhere. What a blindsided. It's very interesting. Nobody not alerts an engagement ring. A wedding ring promise ring. But he's wearing one calls it his wedding band so they got secretly married. My Best Jazz and this was like all over the place like a month ago but my best guess on this because they are not upfront. They like go back and forth between. We're married we're not married. It's like a big joke with them. I think they had like some sort of commitment ceremony in Europe when he broke his leg. And I think he's just not not a legal marriage in the US knowing dean probably like Shaman and the key to which is really is like a prime more of a real thing. I think so do that together. You know yeah. I don't think they have like legal paperwork or anything. But I feel like they're like so happy sad for myself. I'm just getting. That's amazing but back to Briar is is very quick. What is she wearing allegation ringers? He just he was interesting. It started out with Dean wearing the ban and then when I was last with them about three weeks ago they have there. I was like would you do today? And He. They're like Oh we went to go look for Kaelin's engaging bring oh go ahead. I was like okay. Damn good for them. Yeah super q totally into super cute like I said. They seem very very happy. Did you guys know that? A nurse walks about five miles per shift and doctors can work eighty hours per week all on top of devoting themselves just to our wellbeing. Our medical professionals practically superhuman. Yes shouldn't have a uniform that supports salmon every way possible. The answer is also yes figs. Incredible company that's actually doing something about it. They design medical apparel. That looks good. It feels good and it helps. Medical professionals perform at their best no matter what their day throws it them and what I love about. Fakes is their features and functionality. They are packed with tons of features. 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The House are a vet tech or radiologists or any other awesome human in the medical industry in your life or you in the medical industry. Gift yourself some figs. Even if you don't work in the medical industry you probably know someone dies and you can tell them about it or give them some figs so right now listeners. I don't get it or getting fifteen percent off just for a limited time. I'll you guys have to do is go to wear figs DOT COM. That's W. E. A. R. F. S. DOT COM and enter code. Get it fifteen at checkout again. Where FIGS DOT com W. E. A. R. F. Dot Com and enter code? Get it fifteen at checkout. So when did you come up with the timeline of proposing? You said that you had the ring in the House for year. Yes Reagan the house for a year. I knew I wanted you before. The you're twenty. Nineteen was over in July gang series. I started like writing down all the things I was. GonNa say like right though pad are to really plan are a bit like the venue where to do it and my friend had helped me come up with the idea of a box of reasons. I want to marry you so you would want to imagine engagement ring by one physical Demento and she came to me at work day which is like what about like how to box and the box? There are all the reasons why you would marry him. And so maybe even earlier than this summer for I started just like finding random things mostly on the Internet of course of like reasons why I wanNA marry him And I tried to make them range from like flooding serious And then whenever he would leave the house and I would still be home I would start putting together or wrap the little gifts right by little notes to him because they had a little note for each reason slash memento and then and our favorite holidays. Thanksgiving we always. I always spend it as like hold up in our apartment here in San Francisco doing nothing the entire time so I pretty much knew. We'd have the four days of doing nothing at US. And he was coming off along workweek so I took the day off and kind of Set up the apartment. That before Thanksgiving like Thanksgiving Thanksgiving Day. In general yes no. I'm very passionate that too. So it was very easy for me to see. Nonsense suspects excite took the day off and he went in and I had bought and probably like eighty candles of varying sizes. Because I hard time reading dimensions on Amazon hard dating any dimension on Amazon. His Long Enough. I like imagine how giant candles coming towards me and they set up to be in there like little candles as candles lit them throughout the throughout the apartment I got a sign like one of those kind of silly like pinterest signs. That are just like will you marry me overnight and then I set up like a table full of my favorite photos of two throughout the years like insight jokes things like that. Like worry thinking as you're like lighting candles and putting these pictures up with what was going through your mind. I was really fun. It just felt like I think the more funny comical thing of going to my mind is what I bought my own engagement ring box on Amazon. Now well I never thought my life was going to end. It was hiding it too. I was like well. I never thought my life was go in this way but here we are. I'm a modern woman but yeah no it was just. It was really. It was a good super chill day again. You know just like how to be what myself thinking. Plenty of my outfit texting my friends showing the pictures. They're all super excited for me I'm really close with his sister so I told a couple of days before and so the only thing that was his parents syringe question. No I we had told his parents and I asked him if I should ask his parents for their blessing and he said No. I am a forty year old man prior that it's fine that brings up the point though that he did. Ask Your Dad for permission. Five months or so before you propose. Okay that's interesting. That's a great question and it's funny because I've been texting with my dad and he still brings up that conversation they had. They went to like a bar across the street from our apartment and my dad was about right. Was it though? Oh from your apartment. Yeah Yeah They. They went to this Actually actually Lloyd have been there but it's just like this like Across they make Manhattan by that. Lowes Manhattan that asked for permission and he came back a little drunk but my day by day by day came back and he has never been happier. He was smiling ear to ear bone to this day. He still texts me he goes. I think about that night that rob but I hung out. He asked him for permission. And so we've I got to have that like traditional aspects that I know my dad wants like you're dug his moment in other words. Exactly that's super important. I feel like that's like the whole fucking point like raising a girl to raise for moments like that. You know the man. She's married and take care of her house. -actly yeah overall. How did your family feel? Because I know Sister I won't name her. She doesn't even finish the proposals. Oh I know but the family topic kind of made fun of the idea but we should so many mixing between both don't do. What did Sierra say? Well apparently Sierra and tell her anything but I know. Sierra deaf was like she's been in. California so long it does seem like a very liberal thing to do. Yeah so yeah no. I'm not like some kind of a crazy feminists these days. I I do like the idea of like balance of power. Yeah yes. We love saving bow. Like of course qu'ils yeah one thing that's really cool that I want to share with you is is that we've actually been hearing that so many of you are meeting people on okay. Cupid and I just want to start off by saying that okay. Cupid actually works. If you didn't know it is the most mentioned dating APP in the New York Times. A wedding section. Like if sex in the city was real Charlotte York one thousand percent would have met her partner through. Okay cupid it's also because okay. Cupid asks the most ofo questions so can get better and the type of person you're looking for some of the questions that they asked which I love her. Do you listen to podcasts? How do you feel about coffee dates? Do you WANNA have kids? One of my personal favorite questions is about. How long do you want your next relationship to last to me? That is such a crucial question to ask someone that you want to date that way. You know if you're on the same page and you don't waste your time okay. Cube is the only APP in the world. That can match you on a range of issues that you care about from you know whether you're a cat or a dog person too high feel about climate change so stop the mindless time on dating APPs. Go to the APP where you choose. What matters now has never been a better time since we are all home to join? Okay cupid and if you guys okay. Cupid is free. So I don't even have to give you a code or a super long you are L. All you have to do is download. Okay keep today go on a great virtual date this week. Maybe and tell us about that. Great person that you met. And maybe we'll come to the wedding so okay continue with this setup and when rob walks into your apartment so. I kinda lost time I was. I didn't do a cup home between like anywhere because for Thanksgiving like three six pm so knowing that was like my timeframe. And knowing that I wanted to be like five percent buzzed but not read. 'cause I get right when I drink which contains just like a like a slight shift paid buzz. I was really trying to time thing right so I kinda lost track of time and he sent me a text anyways like I'll buy twenty minutes home and I like I was like Shit I was like I writing like assured I was wearing. I like frantically tried to set up all the candle light all the candles throughout the house. Make sure everything was intact And then I realize that didn't have music situation setup because of course I did carefully confronting playlist. That's going to play in the background with Roy. Orbison our way do you listen to the troubling the traveling Wilbur. He's like he's like side tangent. It was like this supergroup for two years with Roy Orbison. Tom Petty George Harrison like literally the most iconic group ever look Google anyways keep going ruin Taylor supergroup. I do and it was called tinted windows. Good Job Jerry. Can't keep up with a okay. So okay so the playlist. Yes the playlist And that was an you know so I can't find the stupid fucking connector to your iphone allows you to plug an issue with the podcast guide. Like one of those and we're always missing at. I know somewhere my junk drawer which is right in front of my door so that was the last thing I needed. I was trying to frantically looks through that drawer for the plug the ad and then I hear the the key turn. He opens the door and I looked at him. And I was so close to being `perfect except for I had the right play with playing in my mind and look at him and the first thing comes out of my mouth as I walked up. Sorry kind and I realized that those being the first words coming out of my mouth and they're being candles in me dress up the place. I'm kind of apology. Saying like he might interpret this crazy so he walks in the door and he's like stunned he didn't even realize I said that and I take his hand and I bring him into the living room with candles are and I point him to this island. It's we marry me. And then he drops his keys at his bad on the ground and I think like puts his hands to his face and he is the first time I've ever seen him cry. Which was Nice. Aloe my the first time you've ever seen him cry second row. That's so powerful. We so what does he cried? Yeah so he. He had no idea well. Not Though. That's what I mean like. He wasn't expecting it and that was part of the fun of it to again. Like kind of going back to this notion of like. This sounds like a fun like once. Lifetime experience I can do for myself and for him I had totally thrown them off for the past couple of months whenever we talk about getting engaged. Do it a couple of years so only knew that I was going to do this in November. I still act was not happening so I I. I see guys a little bit of fun with that in terms of like throwing throwing them off. Did you read everything in the box. Like how did that play out? So that boxes sitting on the table with will you marry me sign and the photos and actually know SARS sitting on our coffee table and he said yes. I brought him over to the other table N. B. had gone through the box together. I think there was like eight reasons why when Mary him for all different. You know things and I'm trying to think of say and reheat over the last reason in the box was the the wedding ring. Oh what he did was take the ring and then get down on one knee there and then put it on my finger which is nice. I like it feels like it would seem less. Yeah it was great. It was wonderful. Wow that's an highly recommended. I kinda love. The idea of proposing knew each other. Yeah you know I like how do you feel? Most men. Think about a woman proposing and if they'd want their significant other to do it I feel. I have a skewed view of it living in San Francisco Nikolai. I feel like I feel like people here are just like it's just like on a daily basis. You know I feel like most I feel like these days guys would be totally fine with it. Don't you guys feel the same way? No chairs he wouldn't shared what am but I think. Yeah I mean I think the more and more we progress as a society and like definitely living in La. People here would definitely be open. Two hundred percent yeah. I don't know I feel though of at least when I think about like the immediate men that I encounter work in things like that I feel like they would be a very maybe not just into it but like open to. It'd be open to it. Yeah well were you were you. Were the first person I met that has done this. And you like inspired this whole podcast. So we can't thank you enough for coming on and telling us the story and I miss you. You come to this guy. I'M COMING TO LA next month for weddings. Well you guys up okay. Perfect all right you for sharing all the other stories that you guys bring on you'll have to listen to them are Qatari when email by by all right now we're gonna read them stories and call some girls if we have questions about their story. The first one is from Eliza. She says the quitter. The quick version of my story is that we hit our five year. Mark November two thousand nine hundred the same week. I pop the question. I decided that it was that weekend. The rest of my life was meant to be with this man. I had known this though since about our second week of dating. Sometimes you just know that. Cute little setup on the roof of our building we live in Brooklyn tea like candles in all our glasses that we had taken from bars throughout the years. Blankets laid out for a picnic of McDonald's illiterate. So amazing was it was precious. I had written a speech that day but in reality I had always had it ready to go from years of little love notes. I read the speech cried and I did not get down on me. I'm begging Amana. Do Anything for me. He cried and then said yes so that was very Q. Okay our next story Jessica. She said first of all I kind of. It's interesting that now we've talked to two women that haven't got down on one knee. I wonder if like any women that have done okay. So this one's from Jessica. She's actually instagram stories. He can lady proposal stories and figured I'd chairman proposed a week ago a week ago. My man and I are both early thirties from Toronto. We've been together for seven years. Best of friends. He's had many chances to propose over the years. Europe Caribbean trips is still no ring. Why was I going to wait for him to make the move? We both clearly knew our next step. Heck most of my girlfriends had given their partners drop dead date or an ultimatum. And I would never WANNA do that. That's very interesting. Also I like to do things a little differently. Ever heard of the Irish leap day. Lady proposal tradition. No we're not Irish but I felt like the upcoming leap day. What better time to propose so just like that? I had a date. My travels a lot for work and turns out that he had a work trip. Plan to Halifax Nova Scotia Hala Fax East Coast Of Canada. Great but I couldn't let his work trip get in the way of my date so I went on with making a plan booking a flight designing a ring making contact designing ring making contacts in a city. I knew nothing about thankful for Instagram AIRBNB. Read it I- sneakily. Sneakily found out all the details of his trip. All his events turns out he was going to be free. The Leap Day morning starting work early afternoon. I had a few hours in no room for error to bring my planner. Let me get him so nervous. I flew in the day before rented beautiful airbnb in an old church had organized a surprise. Scavenger hunt around the city. That would have him turn up at my airbnb where I would surprise them with my presence and get down on one. How do you yes? I got down on one knee. Scavenger hunt started with a coffee. No and a little package delivered from the hotel concierge to wake him up then he made a few stops picking up breakfast using code words and up at my door everything executed perfectly. I've ever the details here but let me know if you're interested in more do we. Do you call caller. I have two questions I WANNA know. I WANNA know why she ended up being not being like. It's been seven years. What are you doing and decided instead of Pester him do it this way. Right and how? She was so sure that he'd even want to get married because she said the next step was obvious and getting done on the Internet and also the that is such a leap of faith as well to to plan is huge thing and to make sure that he was like free just that morning you know she killed it. Oh my God. Let's call Jessica all right guys. We Got Jessica on the Line Jessica. It's that you were together for seven years beforehand. You both clearly knew the next step but what was holding your boyfriend back from proposing think I don't know if this is kind of like sitting around or like I hadn't really given the ultimatum that I feel like a lot of girls do or that like. Hey let's do this before. You know six months from now so he was Kinda feel like waiting for that little bit of a push and instead of giving him that push. I kind of just took it into my own hands. I just have to say like your story. I just was reading it. I was like Oh my God. Oh my God and we. We've talked to We've read another story and we talked to are from Briar before who neither of them got down on one knee so I want to know what you know. Why did you decide to get down on one knee? So I feel like this is the one part of the whole proposal situation that I was going back and forth on it. I feel like it was actually the one that so many people are asking me like. Are you going to get down on Wendy and I had no idea basically until like five minutes before what I was going to do with? Regards to the cool. I was just kind of like. Let's just do I feel like. That's kind of like the quintessential proposal. Sing right. So I mean I feel like getting on me for a split second. Did he have any idea that you were going to propose? Oh no idea at all like surprise across the country so I feel like him opening the door to my airbnb and seeing me. There was a shock in itself and he was kind of like hey happy anniversary which is only like into this whole spiel that. I obviously prepared and said nothing that I wanted to say I was like. Oh this sounds lovely. I have this all these check boxes in points. I WanNa ahead and then basically like blacked out Bobo. The bunch of stuff and then grabbed the ray got down on one and he was very shocked. How did he respond? More words than just shocked. It was a little bit. Was He all weirded out. Did he feel like that was supposed to be his duty? I feel like initially his hands over his head like shock on his face like. Oh my God he's like I wanted to propose. Yes like not really in the sense of him being like only you took this away from me but I feel like has got reactions like what are you doing crazy. Then he's like yes. This is amazing and I think obviously being caught off guard by so many ways of just like seeing the in town and then obviously the talk with the proposal. He's like I feel like I jumped out of play. And so he gave him a ring as we read that you sort of like I it. It really is incredible. How you put all this together so quickly. So was he like afterwards was he just like I'm GonNa get you a ring now. Like what was sort of his mindset in general because he obviously said he wanted to do it but then you told us in the story that it took seven years to get you know get there. Yes so actually. We just actually went ring shopping. Like on my lunch break. Everything is so excited. It's a great way to ensure that you pick out your own ring. You get him. There's and then you're like all right. It's time to go buy ours. Sleet like what so? Many girls have sat there like well. You really want the cigarette outpace you got the. You ought you kind of get to do things on your terms but yeah it's been fun to kind of go through the process together. How does he feel about having an engagement ring? You know what? He's a guy that wears kind of rings jewelry. In general I feel like loving it. Stealing like he's got to that status symbol and he loves during itself so I really nailed it that way. Kinda loving this idea. 'cause then the guy has to wear the engagement ring and women. I look so many pros What did your friends and family think about this? Did you tell any of them? Yeah I definitely love to so many people so I'm surprised he didn't have any idea that it was coming but yeah I think overall great response actually so many. My Guy Friends were like. This is amazing. I would've never wanted to like leftover girl proposed to me and not have to go through all emotions on my own. I feel like my parents were less shocked that I thought they would be told them before. An overall just like very very supportive. I mean nobody seemed not caught off guard by the idea despite not ever heard of a woman proposing before other What what was his parents reaction. Oh they were excited about it. Yeah I let them know before too. You know you never know what that whole traditional approach to things. Obviously you feel like some of the guys should let the female parents know. Sounds like you know what I might as well just like go a little bit by the book and everyone else special out. Well we just. I like absolutely love your story and can't thank you enough for writing in coming on and talking to us about it and go you. Congratulations on your engagement seat. Also by fire a couple other. Women say we're going to feedback from. Yeah I think women are if I was listening to this. I'm I mean I'm rethinking it. It'd be cool to listen to this indefinitely like open your eyes to different ways of doing. Especially if you're someone like just like you who sort of waiting around and don't want to do that tomato. Because that's a whole other podcasts. We could do about women who do mental tomatoes. Actually you know is it okay. Is it not okay? Or what your preferences. So yeah great totally. Thank you Jessica guys take care bye earn as and I are going to read a couple more stories and then see if we have anybody to call okay so this one is not the most pleasant but here goes on our two year anniversary. I planned a trip to the redwoods near San Francisco for the both of us because I knew it was on his bucket list to see them. I gave him tickets for his birthday. In December to make it seemed like it was just a birthday gift I bought him. An engraved pocket watch instead of a ring. The proposal was a bus though. Because I didn't realize how the park would be when we went. There wasn't anywhere for privacy and he hates having attention on him so there was no way I could not I could cause a scene without embarrassing him so I waited until we were like kind of off the main path and awkwardly pulled out the watch and I don't even remember what I said but I said something kind of dumb like this is my proposal to ask if you were if you will propose to me what it sounds like. She chickened out at the end. It sounds like she. Yeah she should have just proposed that she's like this feeling weird. Yeah Yeah exactly. She goes that line is which is not what I planned down. He was really confused. That verse sweetly took the watch guy and then we got back to the car and he had a parking ticket face palm. Oh my God is the word. It took him two years in several conversations to finally have him proposed back. See this this is sort of borderline down the line of that ultimatum. It's not an ultimatum around that conversation that we're having like women that sort of have to like have several conversations with men to propose. I would love to do a podcast on that. Yeah that would be good. I also feel like this girl probably. He got awkward and then she was like Oh shit. This is probably not listening that he'd want to read the next line actually the two years after she says. Oh yeah I I also gave him the ring and just said. Give it back to me when you're ready damn well in a way it's like a proclamation of love right like. I am ready. I want you to propose to me but it does seem as though she had planned you know she booked the trip to San Francisco to propose to him. Yeah yeah there's a little bit more to this but I think that's the gist. Wow well are they married eventually? Oh Gosh okay no let me. Let me actually read this. So yeah. They're married. Okay yeah so he goes she goes. I also gave him the ring back when he did propose just to say keep it back from you know when you're ready when we talked about it. He eventually confessed that he felt stressed out about not doing it right. Which is also how he feels about gift-giving gift giving thing for him she goes he just said with gift. Giving you can just put it off until you can't anymore with giving you just put it off. She said can't put it off until you can't anymore because Christmas and birthday comes around but with proposal you can just keep putting that off. Okay so with gifts you always. When you'RE GONNA to give gifts on it but with a proposal you can keep putting off forever until your girlfriend complains enough. That's what he said. Oh my God oh my God it could be. He could have been joking around and then he goes event. She says eventually he proposed to me by buying me. A new polaroid camera and using it to create a photo scavenger hunt to a bunch of special occasion. He went all out it was. It was a blast but it was so quick to find them. Because I was so excited that I had finally got to. I got the final location before he even did this in the stars weren't supposed to have a flawless proposed now. But that's the great story. I love it. Here's another story which is sort of different and interesting. I actually have a really unique story. Me and my husband got married. July twenty six twenty fourteen. We were young I was eighteen. He was nineteen. We had a one year old together at the time we later had a baby girls. Well after two years we split up because he was going through a drug addiction and I had to do what was best for our kids and myself and leave and hoped he would eventually grow up and get clean. We spent four years apart and after four years we started talk again more than just about our kids. He was three years clean and basically changed his entire lifestyle. Just to try to get me back. He would have done anything and everything. We never got a divorce so he went to the store and got him a ring. He was living at his mom's which just happens to be where we had our small little backyard wedding so I ran inside. Wake him up. I dragged him out into the yard. Right where we said. I do played our wedding song on the speaker and asked him to be my husband again. I've seen she's so annoying. Just kidding love EMA Iran inside awaken by drag on the Ray where he said. I played our wedding song on the speaker and asked him to be my husband again. We are back together and things are great. We're planning on renewing our vows. Aw Cute different take on it too. I love that and this one is definitely cutesy. I proposed in my fiance with a ring pop and a box that I made because I knew it completely love it. We had talked about getting married but I decided. I didn't. WanNa wait so I lit candles and got dressed up and videotape Dan. I don't know if that means she was I had a whole speech planned but then ended up completely freezing up but I did get down on one knee and he said yes now. We're getting married in three weeks. So I got gaps in that. The bottom line is shooting pop. Bring pop and he said yes and they're getting married and through and the fact that he would love the ring pontiacs me love him. That's okay so what do you think about this last century? Read the story or should we should call them at. Let's caller okay. We'RE GONNA call for our last three. Are you guys? We got Angelique on the line. Angelique tell us about how you propose to your fiancee. Still Yes yes. So I did a like I write it all of our family up in. I proposed at a friend's pop up in San Francisco and I did it on Leap Day just so we can have a friends the TV show friends the TV show. Like I did it in. Monica and Rachel's apartment a huge friends fans obviously I'm a huge friends fan and he watches it with me. Do you like French Trivia. And we do like like the Board Games and all of that type of stuff so he has like learned a lot about it and has been able to like pick it up but refresh my memory. Monica did propose a chandler. Right yes and so. That's where we kind of I like all the candles and everything was kind of set up like that. It was through the like. At and T. Store wants pop up and so they were. Actually the onset like set up all the candles for us. Also you call them. And you're like I'm going to propose to my boyfriend like can you guys help me out. Yeah I got in contact with them like two months prior and I was like. Hey what's the lines? Like on a Sunday or a Saturday because I just wanted to be able to get an and Be Able to figure out like okay. How long am I gonNA be waiting like. Am I going to be like fighting people to try to like get into a position to be able to do it because for my impression it was super busy but they ended up closing it down for us so we were able to surprise him how they heard? Korean? They're like oh no we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA close for you well. So they closed it for like thirty. Still Good Yeah so nice and then we had like our family knock on the door wide heading this special treatment so they actually hold us and like we planned it beforehand To our when we tried to like get into the pop up they said that it was closed for a private event and we told them I was like. Hey we've come so far for like can we just get in and see it for a couple of minutes and so we were able to get in without any questions on that front because obviously they knew like what the event was four but I told him that we had a photographer coming in. So he's like but what about the photographer like photographers. Not here yet for was never coming because it was my reason for him to like dress up without being like that like you know sort of have to get you to get your nails done instead. Well some some people. That's so funny. Yeah it was. It turned out really well. So how'd you and get down one knee? I get on one knee. And he was very surprised. He was visibly shaking out before the end because he was so nervous. That like we are summer where we shouldn't be and he is like it's super out of your character to like ask somebody like in go in bend the rules and be like no but we really need to get in like can we get in just for a short amount of time like that's not you. That's not how you act. And he's like I was freaking out that like employees walked up to us and he liked was shaking more and he was like I was so nervous thinking. They're gonNA tell us like what are you guys doing. And they're like. Let me take your backpack. And so yeah and he was like stunned and then he got even more stunned when our family came through Since we moved from Orange Townie to San Francisco and so we had like all of his parents and my parents like his sister Fly Up here to be able to be there for it and so I think that aspect also massively stopped him. What did your family's thing? Yeah what is your family. Say saying everyone has been like completely in love with the idea and they've like our families have been super supportive and I haven't really had any like negativity. I guess against the whole factor of like because it's very out of norm And so nobody has ever mentioned anything about it and so I figured that I would hear something at some point but everyone was like breaking gender roles. That's really cool. Yeah and just like making things like all. She went above and beyond and he was like well. That's better than I could have done some cloud that you took. Was He ever upset that you would sort of take this moment from him. No not at all. So he like we've discussed beforehand. And he told me that he was nervous before about proposing and like China. Make it up to a standard that he thinks that. I want it and just like doing something. That's different than what we're normally doing. He is like I can't plan this extravagant weekend. He was like because I don't do it very often. So you're obviously going to know what's going to happen. He was like I want to be able to fully surprise you in so he was very nervous trying to figure out what to come up with and how to live surprise me but have it be above and beyond and so. I asked him in the very beginning of our relationship and is like Hey. What would like your idea beer like? How would you feel if I ever proposed? Run it by him. I I asked him like way beforehand so it wasn't like I asked him like a month before so think about it but I always loved the idea of proposing because I wanted to like. I'm the planner in our relationship. So it's not weird that I plan something out of the blue but it's super weird. If he does got it you have a loved that so much. Yeah Yeah questions there. I had one more but I wanted just like leaves my brain. I forgot no I guess. That's it well Angelique. It's been a pleasure hearing your story. I was just going to tell you a Monica. Geller would be very proud okay. That's really did it like that. Thank you bye bye all right. Well all right Ashley. We've been from an hour ago. When jared sat down to now you still would have. Never course I would not but I do think that these interviews and stories have confirmed to me that it's definitely a couple by couple basis. Yeah definitely has to eat their dynamic role in the relationship because the Angelique just said you know she's like I'm the planner which is kind of like how I feel but what Brian was saying was like why does that. Why does he get to choose? I want to choose so I feel like there are various different reasons as to why you'd get down on one knee and Mary. Yeah it's fun I love it. I love this podcast so much. I think we should continue it and do like a guy perspective. Same sex marriage definitely dive all right. Thanks for listening guys on Instagram. I don't get a podcast. Enjoy face booker. Thank you so much for listening. Good bye bye.

Brian Rob Ashley Laurence Briar jared Jerry JARRETT Joe Jessica Cbd US Ring Dreary Art Dean Europe Korea San Francisco
How the Celtics got their groove back

Winning Plays

32:09 min | 6 hrs ago

How the Celtics got their groove back

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network. The leading online provider for the India is winning his franchise. Welcome back to the winning Place podcast. You got three big announcement to start the show today. Number one. The Celtics are good again winners of five straight seven of their last eight back in the driver's seat for home-court Advantage in the first round of the playoffs. Number two off beer. I've had a baby Brian Rob little Rob arrived last weekend. So dads going to take some time to to be a good dad and be a good husband most importantly, but he's stopping birth quickly to say. Hi. How you doing? I'm here. I'm excited. I can't believe and I'm in all my wife is the most important thing. I think after a first week of Zachary's life, but I'm eager to offer our dad talks with couple of dads here alongside. Yeah, that's that's our third announcement all say that again. Sorry, I'm spoiling it here. Yeah announcement you did. I don't know if I'm even going to do anymore. Okay, Define number three joining us today. So you'll be hearing a lot more of on this feed moving forward Tom Webster home sports writer at boston.com has been on the csb for how many years now Tom. It's been a wild man. It's it's been a bit full time. I was on starting in 2018. So, okay, so, three years so we get we'll have some news will talk about this morning move forward, but Tom's going to be joining us and yeah, well, we'll talk about it more later. Anyways, let's talk Celtics. The Celtics are good again fear of you. Can't you can't stay for very long time now, give us give us your one. You're one Celtics take that you want to just to just to get us started today. Yeah. This is this is good. I've you know, first of all the having to explain the West Coast when after a baby has arrived is great in terms of just being up all night. Anyway, so from the bits and pieces I've watched over the last week. I'm just gonna leave you guys as my hot take off with Zach on the couch as his which me Tristan Thompson is like passing the ball. I think that's been the biggest key to this team's turnaround right now is Tristan Thompson passing the dog. Yeah, I think you're I think you're sleep-deprived. That's what that's that's it. That's like I want you guys to discuss. I know Tom had some good interesting tweet numbers off of the assist numbers that he had. I think yesterday, but that that's what I got so far from sleep deprived talk, but I'm going to I'm I'm going to step aside for you guys for did I suspect that just for the record the Celtics have not lost since I was born, right? Yes, and I think got you that is probably the biggest like I think we're four now and has a career. So like everyone could talk about, you know, the Perkins tweet and everything else, but I think we have to when when the story The 2021 season is written in might might start with Zachary. We'll see how long the district's only tell one story here. Yeah, you keep saying Zachary. So we're going Zachary and that's a core Jack. I I think like I'm a definitely an exact log. Zachary I mean we're doing Jack Griffin age. Is there any I mean Iraq is the way to go? Yeah, exactly the yeah the thing like the thing that you need to know is that like you can call him Zachary as long you want but as soon as he gets to school and people don't want to say Zachary every time it's going to be Zach anyway, right like my parents called me Thomas for like ten years and like, you know, I mean who took twenty years they still do but yeah the best the best Zac to ever play in the NBA is is Zach Randolph is Zach LaVine I go to zibo There's got to be you have to I think you have to at this point but Levine's making a push for is that Collins a little bit more time? Cool. All right, Bureau will go Blazers make sure off on down the foot and look forward to more. I talked with you guys moving forward here. Absolutely, man. Congratulations. All right, Tom. Now that we got be right by the way now just getting he's still here. Okay. Now he's got why what's going on? Like what happens in April? Do we want we want to it's it's so great because what 7 out of the last eight there eight games in April, so it's great for splits. If you're looking for stats to to help explain this once a while it works out a little bit easier. What what jumps out to you man? What what is the for me? No, I want yours. First. What what? What is it? What happened? Well, so for me, I think for about 10 games there. I thought it was and I still think that a big part of it has been like the Resurgence of Jayson Tatum. He's just been great over the last like 10 games obviously struggled a little bit. We recording this off on Friday. He struggled a little bit last night against the Lakers, but at the same time that Lakers team was like a fake Lakers team and Jaylen Brown was awesome so that, you know kind of fixed itself, but I just Take like when Jayson Tatum is really good. Everything makes more sense for the Celtics right like than everybody's everybody's kind of roles fall into place. It just makes things a little bit easier and I think too just like, you know, the bomber has been a lot better and the numbers bear that out the Celtics Brad Brad is talks often in his postgame and about how the ball moving has made a big difference in and how long I mean Rob Williams plays a big factor in that and Tristan Thompson be Rob's take that it plays plays a role as well. So I just make like there's more chemistry kind of happening organically wrong. And I think that the rotations are making more sense. I think the rules are just making more sense when Jayson Tatum is Jayson Tatum and you know, he's getting healthier. He's starting to feed his lungs are starting to feel a little bit better. He says so I think all those things are are big positives. Can you just see him you see him out in the court and I remember like in the in the bubble last year. It wasn't just that he was playing like a superstar. He was acting like and I know this is part of what part what part was going on and I don't want to really harp on that too much but you can see him coming to life a little bit more out there talking a little bit smoke a little bit more just showing a little bit more expression just getting excited and then you know, we talked about Tatum being Tatum if he doesn't hit that shot against Portland, that's another classic Celtics lost right off like that. Yeah, it's where the narrative goes if he doesn't pull that that shot out of his ass. You don't say that when it stayed on because that's what he does. But like it was not it was not an easy shot. He says the game with that shot and you know, I'm still they could have had a two-in-one road trip and that's that that that's a victory but that would have been another very brutal loss. Yeah. I mean, I think I think a lot of people would have kind of looked at that and said, okay like Palm a good team, you know was helping around the road. Like even if the Celtics have been playing great all year. It's not like it would have been some stunner that they lost the Portland in Portland. Like I said, you know, it's a good basketball team. So what were they they were up by a lot in the south? Not by a lot but like significant amount with not that much time left there. Right wasn't it? Like a that's the thing? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I mean, but for sure I think that like like data has been a really kind of shouldered that and and that's what we kind of have come to expect to see from him. I think the other thing too is like Brad talked after the after the Portland game about how this stretch has kind of needs to stretch that he had last year right before the NBA shut down where he had that February in the average like 30 points a game and I think it was shooting like almost 50% from 3 and he's not shooting 50% from 3 right now is still averaging almost thirty game over his last 10 games. So, you know, I think that just speaks to like he's getting to the free-throw line a little bit more. He's making more free throws like last year. I looked it up. He was shooting like 75% from the free throw line a stretch. It was really weird but during that corruption last year. Yeah. Yeah. He was like just yeah, he was missing a lot of free throws this year. I mean during this stretch. He's shooting like 90% or something like that. He's 55.90 a ninja Yeah, it's true shooting percentage 6:50, which is I think there is one I went back. There's one random month his rookie year actually that he was like 67% true shooting off like a second best month again. It's it's relatively young. But yeah, he's getting it done a legit 50-40-90 averaging twenty seven and half 8.1 3.6 assistant again, you said he's getting to the line he's being aggressive. He is he's back really kind of that simple. Yeah, and I mean like it's just to see what it looks like when he feels a hundred percent again, cuz he talks but you know about how he's using an inhaler before games now and how you know, like he still doesn't he feels a lot better but he's still not like a hundred a hundred percent. So it's nice to see what he looks like when he's when he feels like perfect. But yeah, I mean he he looks a lot more like himself and I think I think if if you're kind of ranking the factors of why the Celtics look good again that too long. Was like number one? Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think then there's some I mean Jalen always, you know, he's this is part of being the second banana I guess but I mean he has been just as great. I mean seventy G20. I mean there are 40-point games and there were 40-point games and what he did last night and and in La just just remarkable to see him do it the way he is. Yeah for sure. I mean it was cool too cuz you saw a bunch of new stuff from him. Like I don't know how much I mean we've seen him like shoot some floaters, but to watch him just like make every floater he just kind of threw up at The Rim like over so it really took like yeah like over like I had one over mantras like that like Montrezl Harrell definitely should have blocked that shot. But you know, he's just lost in these tough tough ones up there and then he comes back in Union because the bench can't hold a twenty point lead and just you know, he's right back to it like he misses his first three and then he knocks down a couple of floaters in on the Celtics win, and it was like, you know, it was, that simple. I mean he was he was really dead. Acular and I think he's been really good over the last like five or so games to like he's got he's got some really nice moments. Yeah. It's interesting because the one the one thing we've seen recently from Jalen is that the assist hours are down. I don't know if he's just just really just locking in. I'm just getting to the to the rim and scoring the ball and it could just be random right? But like I said, I had his I had a splits here for a second and it's just eight games so not a big deal, but let me bring it back up. It was something like it's like one of the first one of the first stretches in a while. We're home. Like more turnovers than assists could just be random right? It's very early. Yeah. It's only got like it's basically to assist the game during this. Yeah. And again cuz we talked so much about his playmaking earlier in the season that sort of one of the marks of him evolving into this All-Star, maybe even more than that eventually, but I don't know that's nitpicking what song And then there's like like the combination of like Campbell and Marcus Marcus shooting forty 6% from 3 over this last eight game stretch where they've lost seven games and not shooting a lot. Right? Yeah. He's playing within himself really. He looks closer to Marcus. The first team all-defense guy than he has since he's been back. Yeah. It's been fun because he's he gives you know, he's asked questions after games where it's like do you feel more like yourself? You know, like what do you feel like you're taking better shots and every time it gets super defensive and I kind of get that because you know, I mean, it can't be easy to have people be like, hey, it's it's probably better that. You're not shooting so much. Like I feel like I would also get defensive but people were saying that to me but at the same time, he's like him not shooting much does not mean that he's not a good player. Right? Like if even if you go back to his high school days, he was averaging like ten fifteen points a game and he was still one of the best prospects in the country. That's that's all wage. In his thing is is if he doesn't shoot that much. He is still a really good player and and maybe a better player and that's again that's not a knock on how good he is. He's a really good basketball player. It's just he's he's off his best when he's facilitating. He's at his best when all of his energy is going to the defensive end because he's just such a dynamic player in both of those regards and I think that's I think that's been one of the side effects of Tatum being really good. Is that smart doesn't feel like okay the offense is struggling. Let me you know, hijack it a couple of times and see if if I can get something going it's just like, you know, just he's playing with in it. I think that makes a big difference right? Like you said again like not only is Marcus Smart probably at his best when he's not doing that but like when you play on a team where there is Jayson Tatum when there's Jaylen Brown where there's Kemba Walker but if your team is also better off when you were doing that much better, but you know, and there was that one play was it all these empty Arenas kind of blend together. Was it the Portland game where he had the ridiculous recovery where he dead? Yeah, a dumb dive anyways to bring yourself out of the play button. Perfect Marcus Smart fashion like he comes back to to to make the steel but like, you know, that's that's him but it really was and it was it was funny cuz like that. I mean like you said it that dive was just I watched him do that at my like I think I audibly said like what are you doing? Like if it completely took him out of the play, you know, it gave the Blazers of five on for except that he's Marcus Smart. So he just stole the ball and it turned into I think it's turned into a 3/4 Tatum like just off. Yeah. I mean when again when it's he doesn't impact the game by scoring he impacts the game by doing everything else and that you know that boost the Celtics I still work. I'm an my big concern with them still is just availability. And because you see a guy especially as you get older the more he's he's taking these hits diving wage and you love it. Cuz that's Marcus Smart. But like I just want them to be there when it matters. Yeah, and you know, that's just speculation and and pessimism I guess but it still scares me a little bit just because like I said for the Celtics to be and I don't know we'll talk maybe at the end of this like what we think the expectations still are for this season. And if this little stretch changes anything, I don't necessarily think it does but like if there is any change that the salaries are going to make a surprise run this season, obviously they need they need this version of Marcus Smart and also like it's interesting to see, you know, Kemba find his role and that's in and you mentioned at the top like one of the biggest factors in the success is that guys are figuring out where they should be and and what they need to do for this team to be at its best and at the same time, you know, this seven out of eight games like the lowest can log Usage rate is way down lowest points per game by a lot the assists our way up. He's even rebounding a little bit more than it has like what are you seeing from him? Yeah, I mean, I think I think you're I think that's exactly right. Like he's sort of settling into a role of the Celtics need him to play which is more of a facilitator which is kind of never been who he who he is. He's always been a scoring point guard. So I'm curious to see how that works out because like again the Celtics brought him in they paid him all this money to be like a scoring point guard who can kind of leave the attack. I mean, I kind of wonder if they if they looked at him and kind of saw somebody who could be almost Isaiah Thomas again, right this this kind of pick-and-roll point guard who could come off hi screens and and get into the pain collapse the defense and job done a little bit of that but that just isn't who he is at this stage and you know, maybe he can get back to it. Maybe not maybe this maybe this version of him is is kind of what the Celtics are going to have going forward and if that's the case, I still think that I mean the contract is is really tough. Right but but you know, like if he's helping that helps like like as long as he is actually like bringing something and and like them. Celtics are going to go as far as Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown can bring them. So if Kemba Walker can facilitate that to an extent then that's then that's a positive right? Because like like the whole thing is just need to make this easier for Tatum and brown and as long as Kemba is doing that. I feel like you know, the Celtics can feel a little bit better. I'm just kind of about what he's bringing two things first. I'm going to break some some thought as exclusive here, Isaiah. Thomas is not coming to Boston. Correct? Yes. It's not it's not it's not going to happen. Despite that report. I don't think they're going down that road. The second was do you think about what about the idea? And I know it's It's Tricky for a few reasons, but take everything out take the egos out to the contracts out. Whatever or the Celtics have better team is Kemba is coming off the bench. So I mean at 4:48 is healthy in this scenario. Yeah, for sure. I when they traded for 48, I that was my first thought right cuz like you look up I mean smart makes a lot of sense as a pass-first point guard. I mean that's literally the role in which he's best offensively. You know, Forty-Eight is a much more. I think I think 40 is a much more dangerous score at this stage just given his his size and all of his skill. I think it would be worth experimenting with that said, I think if the Celtics are still playing pretty well off 48th comes back. It might be a situation where this team, you know, everything that's happened this season. Like I don't mean fragile in a bad way. I mean fragile in a very understandable way like things might be too fragile to shake it up like that. You might just have to be like, okay, this is working. Forty-Eight is going to help a lot. He's going to play 25-30 minutes of game Off the Bench but like what what they have right now is going pretty well and they've seen that. Yep. Things cannot go well, so like maybe just kind of like, you know ride this roller coaster or ride this and hope it doesn't turn back into a roller coaster, right? Yeah. Yeah, and I guess that's fair. I do think a perfect world camber and we'll see as we've seen this year like it is a roller coaster as much as we want this to be the the end of it and for it to flatten out or just to keep going up and up and up and never come down. That's probably not the case even even noticed chemist foul shooting this year by the way, not especially as it I'll oh he he has taken a hundred six. Foul shots. How many has he hit? Interesting. Let's see. I will go I'll take it. I'll say I'll say 9800 of $106 shots. Wow, nine nine four percent ninety four point something. Yeah, I had not I mean wow that's that's such a high number that I feel like I probably should have noticed that that's wild. Yeah, I was I was looking through his again. I was looking through the splits today and I saw that he's hit like his last. However, I'm not going to check it out interesting. But yeah, he's been he's been ridiculous and speaking of high percentage is the I was looking at basketball references playoff odds. They just released the new a new batch within the last hour Southeast are down 98.4% I don't know. I mean, I don't know if they count the plan as as making the playoffs but the Bucks the Nets and the Sixers are are all at a hundred Celtics 98.4 the Hawk Down to 6.7. And then the Knicks are like 79.9 is a big jump drop after that cuz I guess so that would that would make you believe that they're not counting the plans. Do you have a good question? Where's the heat where the bulb a 71.4 that's wild that they're below the Knicks. Yeah, I don't know if that's a matter of schedule because yeah see I mean what like I don't doesn't quite make sense because I mean Jimmy's healthy. It seems as healthy. And other than that like if those two guys are there you would think that's at least good enough to make the playoffs in the East especially with Charlotte struggling and Pacers who knows in the bulbs are falling fast, and I think all of those are the reasons why the Celtics would be really high right because like yeah and the Hawks too because like when you look at the play and tournament, I just think like Charlotte liquid. It's very much on its way down. I mean, you know, you mentioned Lake Chicago like I think the Knicks you just like don't necessarily feel like you can trust I think there are a lot of teams below the Celtics now now that the Celtics have moved and they're in that kind of four or five range. I do feel like there's a a good chance for them to put some distance and and really avoid the play-in game like just not like not have that even be on the radar by the time the season wage comes to a close because it's like Charlotte's so banged up, you know, like all those teams down there below them. I do feel like have like are going to provide a little bit of a buffer between them and and the lounge scene if the Celtics could somehow grab the fourth seed right? I'm trying I'm looking now. I mean, it seems like Atlanta would be the pretty Ideal Home. Yeah. Yeah, I mean even though it's crazy that they lost the season series to them. It's a big ass so hard to look at any season series this year cuz you don't know who's playing in any in any specific game. It's been so crazy, especially with the Celtics this year and they played the Hawks. Oh, wow, all three games were over the course of a week. Yeah during which the Celtics were lost four out of five games the same so that was that was not a great time. Oh, yeah. That was this song played back-to-back against the Hawks and then they had that horrible lost in New Orleans the horrible loss at Dallas and then they had the the back to back and it'll okay. So we're not counting that as anything. So obviously need to finish ahead of South Atlanta cuz I don't have the tiebreaker but that would be a pretty ideal match up in the first round. Well, I think the other thing about that too is that those games against Atlanta where during that stretch where the Celtics played like, I thought it was it was some ridiculous number was like ten or like twelve or fifteen or some amount of games where the opposing team's best player scored 30 or more against them like it was that stretched. They just could not stop any dead. He guard at all. And of course like Trae young was just like sick. Let me like I'm just going to get some buckets here. I'm going to get like 18 free throws in this game. Like, you know, it was like, yeah, of course you're not going to be able to to do much with the Hawks at that point. Yeah. I think I think the Hawks are like the ideal match up for them like Trae Young's first playoff appearance like that that sounds you know that just sounds like a great a great opportunity for them to to win a World Series and you know, maybe Salvage something out of the season and one of those Hawks games it was I mean, I think Trey was great too, but that was when when Gallinari, oh, yeah, did he actually have 40 in that game dead. He may have I gotta say man, like like as somebody who who like still like plays pick-up ball and everything like watching Gallinari go off like that was inspiring cuz I was like, all right, cool. Like after I thought I might still have some games where I can just like, you know, make like 18 3-pointers. Everybody's like, oh man that took used to be nice. So I got I got the box score now 10 to 12 from 3:30 38.69. Your balance and now you look and then just really quickly. Look at the Celtics that game Jeff Teague starts Place 28 minutes yet. No, Mark just yet. No, Kemba you had the double double centers, which would entice Tatum was for 20. Yeah, I mean like you mentioned the double bags like you want to talk about a reason to Celtics aren't are starting to search again like Daddy Ed's removing that that Temptation from Brad I think has helped bring it to this is fucking crazy. I'm looking at this box score. So in that same game that that I'm saying, you know, we had Tristan play 25 Tyson, we played eleven but Robert Williams played 14 minutes off. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's that big I mean honestly though like I feel for Brad because I think he knew that that big rotation wasn't working and at the same time, what are you supposed to do? You're trying to get minutes for Rob who's trying to develop you're trying to get minutes for Tristan or you just pay the complete nonsense taxpayer mid-level exception to you're trying to get minutes to Daniel theis who's been your starter on like Thursday. We op runs. There's a good player and like you're trying to do all those things in an NBA where you can't play two bigs anymore. So like it was a that was a tough position for for Brad to be in so like I thought Celtics like trading Tice was a little tough just cuz he's a good player. But at the same time like it just clarified things. I think a lot for the team. Yeah, they just never should have some interest in as the truth. But what's right and do you do you have any insight? I know it's hard because I mean no one's really on the road with the team. But any insight into Rob's knee kind of just Does that seem I mean, it's it's never good when when a guy misses a game certainly not with a knee injury when you when you play the way that that Rob Williams does but was there a specific play that you see anything where you might have come up like limp or anything else? I haven't seen anything my I mean my impression is that like especially this season where everything's so condensed like me nice stuff like that is going to be pretty coming Jalen's been dealing with tendonitis all year. Like I thought it was going to be a lot of guys who are just kind of like limping around a little bit. I could probably use a night or two off and Brad did say like, you know, this doesn't seem like a like a long-term thing at all. He doesn't expect us to be like a like a pack of a big thing going forward. So I mean, we'll see like if if he misses another game or two, maybe it's something to be really concerned about but I would be surprised if the Celtics were just like like Rob is, you know, Rob's a really good player, but he's been a little bit off. So like, you know, maybe just kind of take care of him and give him a chance to rest before they go home. We can't we can't lose Rob Just emotional just emotionally. I don't think Celtics Celtics I sent Celtics Nation. Whatever. I don't think Boston. I don't think anyone who cares even a little bit about the Celtics can can withstand losing right now. We need to treat him kid gloves put him in a bubble. Whatever you need to do to make sure that he is okay for when it matters. I mean I was I was saying earlier this year too when he was dealing with all that hip stuff. It was like look this guy's been so good. I feel like whatever you need to do to make him like a long-term member of your team. You gotta do like right page like take care to take care of his health because if it actually is going to be a thing where you know, he's got he's got minor injuries here there. He's got like, you know problems that could develop down the road. I mean trying to nip that stuff in the bud right now when trying to nip that stuff in the blood right now when he is a a useful member of the team but not crucial that could be really good down the line when he becomes crucial, you know, it's like just kind of hang out already handled those those types of situations cool. All right. Well, let's let's wrap this up with one final conversation is anything again? So we spoke what we weren't recording but we all spoke like two or three weeks ago and we were talking about like doesn't even care about the Celtics anymore. Is it worth even having podcast about the Celtics like everyone was so frustrated with it looked like they were they were dead. We were having the conversation. Are we going to root for them to miss out on the playing game? And this goes straight to the lottery because what's the point this happens? Again? Tatum Tatum Comes Alive. Jalen is wrong shades of you know the player that was an All-Star earlier after struggling a little bit more recently. Kemba has played like in ten of eleven games. Obviously that helps, you know, when they don't have as many back-to-backs on the schedule marked playing with it himself raw chicken as beer upset at the top we say what you will about Tristan Thompson. I've said most of it but the guys playing much better wage looks like he's in better shape shades of the guy that you thought maybe the Celtics were getting. What are your expectations for the for this season, like let's say that they can get the fourth seed pod. What's the ceiling for the Celtics team? Well, I mean like we'll see I think we'll know a lot more after this weekend where we see them play the Nets because I'm curious to see them play some of these contenders some of the Eastern Conference contenders with kind of this new mown know this new kind of I mean, I guess seemingly new mentality where they actually seem to expect the win games. So like I'll be I'll feel a little bit more comfortable in my take it up. But I mean for now I still think that like the three teams that are above them are clearly better to me. Like literally, I think I think Brooklyn and Philly certainly and and you know Milwaukee like that's just like this song. I think that's just a different tier of basketball team. So I mean to me if the Celtics win their first-round series and they're competitive against whoever they face in the second round, you know, whether that's Brooklyn weather that's Philly wage, you know as like as long as they do that, I think they can feel really good about kind of turning their season around and going into the offseason with a little bit of momentum kind of taking stock of where things are at home. In what happened to the offseason seeing what Danny does and you know going from there and building from there and and watching what happens to the rest of the teams. Like if you can if you can mount a real playoff push, we're dead, you know, you make Brooklyn sweat after you, you know beat the Hawks in five or something like that that to me is like a really nice, you know, maybe it's not like the ceiling ceiling but I think it would be a really nice place kind of end up. I think I think the nicer place would be a second-round match up with Philly. Yeah. That's the one we're just again beads as it seems like yogesh might win the MVP but would be is right up there if you didn't get hurt if he's healthy terrifying but still seems maybe a little bit combustible, you know until you can do it in the playoffs. You're still wondering if if he can stay locked in June and then Simmons obviously is is his own his own issues but like that that second round against Philly is the chance to I think the sellers could really shocked the world. I don't know if they if it comes down to to Brooklyn. Wow. It's finals or even Milwaukee. I don't feel quite as good but that's my ceiling I think right now is that you you get you get a a breezy first round match up with the Hawks we can kind of hit your stride and hopefully get healthy and get it and maybe five or six games and then you catch Philly and and either in bead isn't healthy or can't quite keep it together on that on that stage. And that Spotlight. It's going to be crazy cuz you know you wonder I wonder how how full these Arenas are going to be by the time the playoffs come around as well. I mean everything's going to be different and in the guys who haven't done it before I think it might be even a little bit more difficult. But whatever. I think that's a good place to stop a very positive podcast our first time talking to each other over the airwaves. I think that's good. Definitely. Yeah, and yeah, this is fun and we had it we welcome Zachary Rob to the world too. So absolutely especially like that's awesome. It will have them. Casper. It's just everyone's kids. No actually not like most of the podcast you can hear my on the background anyway, so my my son would just come on and talk about T-Rexes for 35 minutes. So you'll see like if you have you ever want if you ever want some T-rex or Spinosaurus talk my my son's the guy for you. Okay? Well, maybe I think that's a good Niche podcast. I don't know if that exists yet. If it's just modified when we're done cool. All right, Tom. Thanks for coming on will talk to everyone soon. I guess subscribe winning plays follow us. What's your Tom underscore MBA? Yeah. Yeah. I'm still suffering through that Twitter handle. So yeah, I was going to say was the suffering as the underscore. I have an underscore as well. It's it kills. Oh, no, I just like I mean like I just feel like you know those people who would have like wow. John underscore ESPN or whatever and they don't work for ESPN. Like I don't work for the NBA like I I, you know what I mean deter but like it was 2009. I got the account literally to talk about them because shout out to an editor like a Blog I used to work for was like hey, you should have a Twitter account. So Twitter Tom underscore NBA was born but it's like it's like Sam Sheehan NBA. Yeah. Yeah, exactly exactly. Like I'm not trying to do a bit so, you know, but you're at least trying to do a bit Samsung an MBA for higher. But yeah, but but your but we're here talking about the MBA. So am I think I think it checks out cool. All right, man. Will talk to you soon. That's good, man.

Celtics Jayson Tatum Zachary Marcus Smart Tristan Thompson Jaylen Brown Tatum Portland Kemba Tom Lakers Jalen Rob Brian Rob Hawks Jack Griffin Zach LaVine Brad Brad Zach
Rob Williams and the trade deadline

Winning Plays

41:53 min | Last month

Rob Williams and the trade deadline

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. It folks will come in to another edition of the winning place. I guess. My name is Brian Rob joined by frequent contributor to the Pod Brian bernardoni and we bring Ryan in here as is tradition on the heels of Jacob Williams playing one of I'd say probably one of the best games of his career. Sunday night against the rockets and we're gonna get into that. We're going to get into some traders that have popped up particularly involving the center position and how that kind of relates into the the Rob Williams conundrum. If you will that perhaps he was in the coaching staff will be having to deal for the coming weeks as mature markets healthy, but first and foremost, please rate review subscribe to the winning plays pod on iTunes or wherever your podcast. It is much appreciated but dead. First off we'll go to rain here. We'll just we'll just scale. Like what where do you rank that performance by Rob on on Sunday night? And the the career Power Rankings wage? I guess the only thing that holds it back is that the level of competition was less than Stellar, you know, if it had been against Christian would or something Justin Patton doesn't break but just the patent and no no other centers really, right. They it was a pretty degraded team from from where they've been over recent years. But I mean, what are you going to save like you had a double-double? I didn't miss a shot. I guess you missed a free-throw didn't didn't miss a field goal block shots. He's stealing the ball at least turning momentum around he's as he does every single time he plays making some ridiculous practices that seem you know, you see those some of those passes that are thrown to him and we've just been conditioned by recent Celtics mob throwers of like that's in turn over somebody going to get injured because of this terrible lob and page. Just somehow it becomes a basket when when he's on the floor and yet another one yesterday with the with smart throwing like a rocket of of a lob. It wasn't really a mob. It was like a long drive and somehow Rob just goes up and very softly drops it through the through the hoop and you're like, I don't know how that's I don't know how that didn't go Justin Patton seven rows Deep South so it obviously it was a very impressive performance other than the level of competition, but are there any unimpressive performances from from Rob in the last month or six weeks like every time he's on the court, he looks crazy because he's really talented in playing very well. So yeah, it's it's very promising for her for his career for what the team needs out of him. And you woke up that not only does it continue with that. His role is able to expand off as some of these performances which I know is sort of what we want to talk about here is how how we get to there. Yeah, so that's that's where we'll start from a big picture perspective. I think here Brad Stevens spilling the beans on Sunday night that yes Marcus Smart going back into the starting 5 despite coming off the bench for the last two games as his minutes limit goes up and which seems to Signal the end of the devil big line up for good rest in peace, though big line up the defensive Stoppers that really have not never came into fruition at least for the first thirty five games this year, but it's clear that this is going to lead to a bit of a minute spent. You've already seen Daniel theis held to under ten minutes into the last five wins for the Celtics simply because both are going super small and it makes no sense to play Cube. It's against them. So When we look at this right now, well, I guess first off. Is there any if your power ranking the center's right now it's going to depend on match-ups obviously, but the thing is it is Tristan Thompson the third-best center on this roster against everyone at this point or are we do we think that that could change to based on the opponent? It's I mean, maybe there are some specific matchups where you where you prefer Thompson, but I think it's pretty clear. I don't think there's a huge gap between him and and tice right? It's not like it's a wrong number one in places too. And then there's a you know, you sort of like well, obviously, you know, is it Taco now? I mean that's Thompson's are playing pretty well for what you're expecting from him. It's just that for all that people look at the Celtics and say, oh the center position is there big problem like tice's good. He's fine and and Rob is what he is. He's Mercurial maybe although he's you know, like I said been pretty consistent lately, but I can just do things that are really special and so Thompson. Yeah. I mean, I think he's pretty clearly the third Center and it's something I don't know if it's as much matchups as it is just like the flow of the game right some guys some nights guys. Have a good day and some they have a bad day you get a little banged up from an injury, you get foul trouble, whatever it might be and it's nice having a third Center who you can rely on the problem is trying to dead. Play them all like their second centers, right and they sort of all get back up Center sort of rotations and minutes instead of having anybody established as a as your top guy and a second and third who is an ideal. Your third guy would be e d m p s and things like that and that's just not the way that it's working at the moment. So yeah, I mean to me, it's Thompson's pretty clearly there are their matchups that come to mind for you cuz people think of them as I sort of think of him as the bulky one became Thompson are because Robin and tice are not super, you know, they're not sort of thought of as like post bachelor's and on the defensive end really obviously Thompson sort of made his name as more of a almost a switch Center off. So I'm not sure what the matchup would be where you would want him over at the other two is this is there, you know ones that come to mind for you where you're like Thompson's the guy against somebody I don't know all those matchups have not you know fairly. Well this year. I feel like we're going to be like, okay. Yeah like Thompson vs MB that's your best option that match up like that. He was roasted just as much as anyone in that job. And then you isn't that Thompson's a good match up for that is that you're just worried that the other two are bad matchups, right? It's like the worst two, but then it's when his when you look at that match up and you're like, okay Thompson is about you much more defensively than either of those guys would and then on top of that your offense is so much worse than when he's on the floor based on compared to those other two guys. So that's I think that's just the Tristan Thompson problem. That is emerging. Here is his D. I know whether again it's only half it's halfway through season. Now, it's defense has gotten I think slightly better but the switching the switch ability that I think a lot of us came to expect from him kind of fallen off as he's, you know, reached his 30s here and with that aspect of his game. He's not a great defensive rebounder. He's a great officer your honor, but he's you know, his size is a known issue in down low. And so if he's not making bunnies and he's not kicking me out to guys for three's then again unless he's becoming you know, his energies at a high level for certain night your birth. The the the cons outweigh the pros compared to I think the other two sensors on the roster a lot nights guess maybe the kind of player who you would like him against in this a little bit counterintuitive. Although we've seen him go against down through the years is sort of an Al Horford type where you would you would say Well Place can can do a little bit of everything and the guy who he's faced up against can do a little bit of everything but a little bit better than Thai scan and you might be looking at something where it's like this team struggles with with defensive rebounding your opponents Total Defense everybody. You're like sort of specifically targeting something like that where it's like, okay, we think we can can make hay on the offensive glass against the particular team where or like the the Raptors have been playing very small with anunoby in at Center or document Center which ever one you want to think and you would you would think that would be a bad matchup for Thompson. It's like you would want to go even smaller. But if I'm assuming you're going to play a center you might look at that and said like well, we think we can make up for all we're going to lose on on one end by going at them on the offensive glass. Right? And so maybe you put them in an over Tyson and match up like that, but you're talking even them. Talking about things were kind of speculative and you're maybe trying some different things and you wouldn't really want to rely on that or believe from the start. That would be would be either the best matchup is that's why I get to it's like some nights you can just see it replaces off for whatever reason nobody has rough nights or or Thompson has a is looking like particularly good on the on a given night. But if you go away from the double Biggs, then you're not going to have an opportunity to see that right. You just have to trust that the guys are better or going to be better. And in that case Thompson comes on, you know comes into the game if it's a back-to-back and you're trying to steal some minutes from you know, without burning anybody out or somebody gets foul trouble or they're just really struggling that night and took a different route, but I think that's sort of why we've seen him win minutes in some games now it's because they're both on the floor together. And so you do have an opportunity to evaluate the problem is if one of them is playing poorly and you have double bags out there the time valuing them you fall behind by ten points and then it's like well that wasn't worth the evaluation time is your, you know, fell behind so like there's just no really no great solution for that and in the modern game where you you suck Kind of want to have a hierarchy of centers because you don't it's not a position. You want to have to put too much thought into and in a certain way. So it's looking at the situation now with with 10 days till the trade deadline here and it seems to becoming more and more clear that it's unlikely something major will happen with the TV in these next ten days. But the same time that doesn't mean other secondary moves around the rest of the roster can be made em, and you know this addressing this excess is one Clear Spot Chris Haynes of Yahoo. Today had a report that the Celtics it wasn't really a it seemed more expect anything else from you know, an agent who ever is all here. But say this other quote could trade shops and Tristan Thompson the head of the March 25th trade deadline and he left of the Toronto Raptors as a potential destination, which I mean if you look around a leak in terms of who needs a starting center more than anyone right now. They that's be an obvious choice, I guess from Well first off. Do we look at the center one thing that says could do here and this is where I look at their assistance for this year as fascinating right now Ryan is like having a three-headed monster a center does make sense for diversity Thursday and point you can you know, give Thompson and tice nights off as the games pile up here and keep everyone kind of fresh and the injury backup situation would obviously you'd be in a better spot if you keep all three there, but if you're going to lose one of those two guys next year anyway, and you're not making the roster better to contend in the present does it make sense Jeep all three of those guys for the rest of the season like knowing what's what's probably going to come this offseason? Probably not. I mean we were talked on the preseason about how it didn't necessarily make sense to have all of them and that off depending on sort of how the season played out and where they needed to get help and what Rob showed that it may very well be that one of Thompson or Thomas gets moved. I think one thing that has happened in the last couple of weeks is that you would have to get somebody like dead. Really seriously good in order to trade Rob at this point and I I don't know. I mean it's possible but I don't it doesn't seem likely so you left with the other two and I do agree that like having three centers is a necessity. They you know Thompson if he's willing to be a third Center is is totally fine at that option. Like you don't want to be paying a third Center 9 and 1/2 thousand dollars next year. But for this year, it's not you know, it's fine if he's okay getting d m p. Sometimes. I don't know that likes playing one or two rotations and and all that like kind of a problem with needing guys to rest them needing depth at every single position. But yeah, I think the question really is like if you could trade him and then go and sign norvel Pelle, right? Like just somebody who's tall and is off somewhat reliable and has a little bit of NBA experience. It's going to understand that there are third Center. Would that make your team any worse? I don't really think it would particularly with you know, getting back to health and having more options on the wing in the backcourt. So that's what I would prefer that they do but somebody has to want the player. I work my concern is that what happens is they play up the season with all three of them and then you get into the offseason and they look and they make you know, an acquisition of some amount and either they lose twice for nothing which is fine. Right? It's not great, but it's it could be what it what it could be or they could say Tice played really well through the end of this year and they want him to come back and and be sort of a normal one two punch that we expected with with Williams and then they have to trade more draft Equity to move Tristan Thompson again, just like they did with Canter and veins who weren't like bad players. They had they were teams around the league that wanted them Canter's playing find this year Baines played well to get a last year for Phoenix. They had to give up stuff to get rid of them. And if if Thompson is your third Center, then you get to the end of the season if you haven't traded him. You probably do have to give something up just to get rid of as nine and half million. I don't really want a dog. That again so rather if you can move him now, like I said today when that report came out that you just referenced like you could just trade them for Aron Baynes and like I would think that would be totally fine. Cuz Baines has a team option next year off right so that you'd use your we need you just decline the option and like done you've you've undid what turned out to be a mistake in signing Tristan Thompson took it like a huge mistake. It was like, you know, he's playing fine. I wasn't like super against it when it happened with what was left. I was like, yeah, right, it's fine. I get it. So, I don't know. I mean like that that isn't that isn't the kind of thing that anybody looks that gets excited about but like I would completely understand it if they did that. right, I guess I from that standpoint I don't necessarily think you're going to have to like given how much free agent money is out there next year and how the lack of town not at Center. Like I don't necessarily think dumping him for nothing. Not sure in the offseason will be a I don't think you have to use draft Equity to do that. But they do know the last two years. That's the thing like teams wanted Baines the Portland wanted Canter they didn't have to take in like the engineering. Maidenform that's like if everybody knows that you're trying to move a guy for whatever reason and the reason they'll be trying to move them is because they could have a big luxury tax bill if they go out and get somebody else using the tpe. Right and everybody will look at that point. Oh, they're going to move him cuz he's going to cost them twenty five million dollars in terms of like actual money. And so teams aren't just going to take them. They're going to demand something for him. And that might be second round pick, right? It might not I don't think it should be a topic and then the time they do before they sent out a first and they got back seconds and the amount of like actual draft Equity that moved around wasn't huge but just don't want to be in a situation where three straight years for like. Yeah, we signed the center for multiple years turned out we didn't want him and now we're dumping him to go sign another Center to replace them. And so if you could move him now without having it be any cost. I would just be like, yeah, that's fine. And like I said and you just go sign somebody else. You just bought a minimum contract some guy who's like hanging out there who's fine. I'm not saying like Andre Drummond when he gets bought out. I mean like literally somebody out of who is in like the G League bubble or something and I don't think it would hurt you log. So you run into a whole bunch of injuries, and if you do it, you're probably screwed anyway, so what difference does it make right? That's a good point from in terms of what injuries what do to your overall chances anyway, so, all right so chuck wood. So I would I wrote today that I would balk at just doing that straight up unless you're going to get like a second or or some kind of sweetener from Toronto for Thompson. But but I guess like if you know the Bane's if you think bank is going to be okay in that third man role and obviously is going to be better than anything you read in the street and you I guess you do have that salary for trade purposes if you need to use it in the offseason, like if you need to pick up that option just to make the money we're going to do but you also the TV so that shouldn't be necessary. Anyway. Yeah, I literally think of it is just like getting back out of the deal basically saying like if you could undo it and get can't hear back would you and like I don't really want Cantor back either but in the grand scheme of things, it's like I just dead. Really want a 9 and 1/2 million dollar third Center next year. Now if you think like if you look at the market you say that Tysons going to make fifteen million dollars and Tristan Thompson to be my backup center next year. Then that's fine. You could keep him and just move forward thinking that ties is going to be gone. Like none of these things are like needle movers by any means right? It's just you can look at it and depending on what you think about Daniel theis and what you think the market is going to play and in the off-season it would be completely reasonable to me that they could make a move like that. That would just seem like nothing. Okay. Why did you bother with that? I'd be like, yeah. I know. I mean I get it it's fine. Whatever. I understand why they would do it off and so from that like that's where we are with Tristan Thompson though right now. I think we're it's like he's not playing poorly. He's not playing great. It's just kind of too much on the roster. You want to rebalance it and sometimes you rebalance by making a trade that everybody sort of shrugged ranked every trade that Danny Ainge is made right some of them you look at and you just want to shrug in you're like, yeah. I mean, I was fine. I get it and there's not not a whole lot more to it than that. Right, and I guess it's it's printed two for now. I think we're anything else is standpoint of like this is this is a one obvious area to address the next 10 days. Like like we said waiting to the offseason do this if you have out now whether that's Toronto weather, that's another team where you can you know, just do a straight salary mattress Tristan Thompson or get, you know, take someone else on a different part of the roster so you can at least get your losing Thompson, but you're getting you know police or something something Fringe that helps you somewhere else and maybe is a better use of maximizing the current roster that you have while also freeing up minutes for Rob Williams because that is I think as the year goes on as we saw what he did in a bubble last year in terms of like the the the fact he made in like the the match up against the Raptors in the second round where I think he was probably the best bench player. In that series and one of them a game or two of just like some pretty birth. Scoring bursts in the first half of those games like you want to the consistency is reaching a level now where I think you need to if you're getting a company just try to push that forward as much as possible. Even if it does end up costing you, you know, some money down the line in terms of whatever extension you're going to try to get designed now, we're talking my language. Yeah, so I don't think that perhaps back a little bit. I don't think it's the only obvious thing to do at the trade deadline. Like I think the same problem that they've had since the beginning of the Season still exists and maybe they just don't have any way to get that done. But like they do need another they need a big Wing said they need somebody to fill those minutes and to take some of the pressure off to you and Jason and to improve the team they they absolutely still do and it may be that there's just no deal to be made and that there that's what they've been. Seemingly indicating but like to me that's a much more important part of the team than what they're going to do at 3rd Center to be you know, for sure. Yeah, I guess it's more like it seems more realistic based on again how they have talked publicly about it in terms of what and who knows. It's still like a walking change the next 7 to 10 days as as teams single parents home. You've got through the trade deadline and what they've done is that they resolved their third Center Spot like that's a bad trade deadline for where the team is and and what was set up in the off-season and all that as we've talked about numerous times. I would consider that to be a failure of a of a process from from the off season of the trade deadline. But yeah, I mean on the bigger the bigger point there like Rob needs to play more. He's an outrageously gifted player on the offense just looks different when he's out there, you know coming in. He was Defensive Player of the Year and his conference and the shop blocks and the Steals and all that are are still there in, Georgia. Really sort of incredibly high high volume on on both blocks and steals but I think what showed last year in in the bubble is that he's a really gifted offensive player who just helps everybody else. There aren't enough players on the team who helped everybody else on offense, which is something that's been a popular thing that's been talked about lately about how Jay Leno Jason are sort of natural Playmakers and Kemba isn't a Chris Paul style point guard. You can put Robin Williams out there and he has a 15% usage and it just everything seems easier regardless turns the ball over a little too much, you know is a good passing instincts that get a lot of assists doesn't have a lot of usage you sort of think like well that player shouldn't make everything that much easier on everybody but he just create space on a team that doesn't naturally create a lot of space off and and I think there's like a ton of value in that and just sort of giving everybody a little bit of breathing room and entice create space in his own ways. And that's really I think largely what you get down. The difference we talked about defense and about switching and who the matchups are and all that but a lot of it is like twice. He's not a great 3-point shooter, but he will shoot the three and he creates and he's a good passer on the short hole and Rob we know what she does on offense and Tristan just doesn't really do a whole lot on offense and the things that he does do even when the ball goes in are generally negative things. You don't want to build your team around Tristan Thompson baby hookshot posts all the time, and he doesn't really do anything else on that end and with and that's why you need to create minutes for for Rob. It's because he just even though he doesn't touch the ball that often his simple presence greases the wheels for everybody else. Right and I think when you just look at the complexion of this team right now to like where where is this version of Celtics going like to win when it matters how they going to do it. I'm going to be with offensive first like this is and there's been injuries. There's been obviously needs for upgrades in other parts of the roster, but I think even at its best this is like a, you know, a slightly above mediocre defensive team, but it can be a top-five offense when everything is going right based on what brown and Jim could be if if you have robbed out there if if smart ship series of Kemba if you're getting the good version of the Campbell, which is starting to become more consistent, but that's like that's how this team is going to be the best version of itself. So Rob Williams helps his team do that. I think more than Tristan Thompson does because that of everything you just talked about and so like leaning into that more I think is a way to figure out What this team is actually going to be capable of yeah, the other thing that you get out of it is you get like variability, right? If you're if you're the favorite you want a stable Series, this is something that Daryl Morey sort of built up Rockets around before it. They became more hardened Central obviously, but the original idea of it was like the way that you overcome the Golden State Warriors is that you want to just inject uncertainty into serious wage a lot of Threes because threes are uncertain and they do different things to a game and you can win a couple of games because you have hot shooting and if you don't then oh, well, you're going to lose a series. Anyway, you just lost by a few more points who really cares and that's a little bit of what Rob brings as well. And because we haven't seen him play twenty eight minutes or 30 minutes. I think it was the level of play that he does in in 18 minutes in 30 minutes then like that would that's really valuable because how well he plays in short bursts is like crazy you play them sort of traditional starter minutes, then it would just be variability and when you get to a series against because the Celtics are not the best team in the Eastern Conference is certainly not the best team in the league and if they were the best team in the same size and Thompson, then you probably wouldn't be sitting there going we need to get Rob Williams. Even if Tyson Thompson were sort of uninspiring that's fine teams can win games with an uninspiring one position as long as they're released able to give you the same thing every night. But if you want to beat the Nets maybe the Sixers the Sixers would be traditionally been a good match up because maybe you can beat them anyway, or you know, the Bucks are going to if you were to somehow make it to the finals like it's just having a wild card out there is kind of good because if you don't and you just play it straight and you're going to lose anyway, like who cares if he has a bad series and he throws the ball the way a couple of times because he's you know, the lights get a little too bright and he's not used to log. Out there. So you lose by 8 instead of 4 and it's like, you know what difference does that make but if he has a good good series and if you just sort of breaks out and has has these performances that we've seen from him then I thought maybe that wins you a game. Like you said, you know, maybe one a game in the Toronto series and that's a seven-game series and in the in a big series, maybe he does Smart sort of the same way with his shooting right like you want smart to shoot. In games where you aren't sure if you're going to win like you won the Eastern Conference Finals game against the Cavs because he was like, well, I'm just going to shoot a whole bunch and if we if they don't go in we'll get swept and if they do go in we'll lose and five and so they lost faith only one of the game just by like being like what the hell like what who else is going to take these shots. So I'm going to shoot for 3 and some of them are going to go in like that's okay that you is actually like a viable strategy if you aren't the best team, so I think you'll also brings that he brings a lot. He's really good. Like everybody can see it one of the I don't know. I don't want to ramble for too long here. But one of the things that I find funny is that I think there's a little going on right now where people are watching the video being like look he's setting better screens. He's making better defensive reads. You can do these little video break down and say look he's doing this better. And the reason he's getting playing time now is doing this and doing that. He's a good player now. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's true. I believe that Brad see some of those things that's why he's maybe giving him some more minutes but to a certain extent you can look at it statistical profile this year versus last three meetings at the same same wage. The same block rate you got the same steel rate to the same assist rate. Is that the same turn of right? Like he's getting a few more offensive rebounds and he's taking a couple more shots, like literally like one more shot in game because he has players who are slightly better at throwing a lot to him, but he was really good last year and model you ever played. Yeah. Oh absolutely. We were all calling for him to play more than this isn't like some new thing that really gotta play Rob more this season off last season. It was like why is enes Kanter playing look at where Rob Williams can do and he just wasn't trusted yet and he seems to have, you know gain that trust but I do think it's a little bit funny that like people are trying to come up with all these Reasons. I'm a better this year. I'm like, yeah, I mean, he's a little bit better, but some of it is literally like he's getting one more offensive rebound and dunking it and everything else is the same. It's just it looks a little smoother but I don't know he's I love him. He's really great. I hope they find a way to sign him to like reasonable extension this year before he does start playing thirty minutes a game next year and posting double-doubles every single night and off. Because I think that that's coming for him in his career. As long as he can stay healthy, which is a question, right? That's the big question with that right above everything else above all the you know, sort of brain farts trying to throw out a passes and all that stuff the bigger questions really help and if you stay as healthy as you have a long career where he does some just outrageous things. Yeah, and it's I mean for a 2023. Yeah, so it's it's a situation where like bet on him for the impending extension negotiation this offseason is how much are you you're essentially just weighing his health versus something that's like the real there's clear on court downsides but they're vastly outweighed by the you know, a his Improvement defensively which she comes and goes like there used to have a lot that you know, there's still the sticker still exists out there where you know, he still biting on pump fix the three-point line and and just getting completely lost in the pick-and-roll time. But those games are becoming fewer and far between and he's offsetting it by walking James Harden's 3-point shots and doing other things that you're Jo Schmo Center is just not came up. So you have to rolling with the the good over the bat is becoming easier and that's where the what you said when you now you want to extend that sample size in the minutes and seeing like, okay, we know we can do this in twenty minutes. He doesn't look as gas now in these games. So what can you do in twenty-five to Thirty? Can I stay out of foul trouble? Can he pull it up $15 of and 3 at night and what are the others look like what it sounds like with him in the starting 5 because he, you know having having like like having him just took everything on the offensive glass and maximizing spacing for when they're like, we we probably seen that line up maybe like under ten minutes of this whole career at least in the last two years. Yeah. I mean, so one of the things I want to just log There is I agree that he does some things wrong and he makes mistakes but so does every other player right? Right like there's no who is this? Perfect player who isn't making these mistakes and some of the things he makes are sort of visible a funny but agrees from Thompson getting an offensive Rebound with two guys wide open at the 3-point line and pump-faking twice and throwing up a hook shot is a mistake and just because he's a veteran he's been doing it for years and won a title on it, you know, it doesn't mean that that's not a mistake and when Daniel theis can't catch a lot because he's not as athletic it's not mistake, but it's a limitation and so Rob has limitations that he makes mistakes. So do Daniel theis and Tristan Thompson and so does every other Center and every other player in the league other than like LeBron right off all everybody makes mistakes and why it is that young players make a mistake and that's the end of their night and veteran players make mistakes and it's like well you must have had some brilliant reason for making that mistake off. We can Overlook that is something that it doesn't you know doesn't quite make sense for me. So I always sort of want to throw that out there that that everybody does make mistakes and not just young players and then but yeah starting in I don't really have a problem with the number of minutes that he seems to be playing now. We're playing in the middle 20 minutes ish. He would have played over 20 minutes last night. If I hadn't been able to think that playing and reasonable minutes is fine particularly with his injury history. The problem was when he was getting dmps and when he would play 16 minutes one night and sixty minutes the next night consistently giving him back up Center minutes is fine and if you want to get down there by starting and I know Jared Weiss wrote something today that was like and you wrote something on on starting him as well. And and you may sort of different points as to why to start him and Jared point was like, well you want to up the level of competition. I want to have them playing against starters to see if you can play against starters and you were talking about just like you did about you want to be able to see what that does for your spacing and how that sort of builds a five-man lineup. So you get there in the playoffs. So from that standpoint, I completely am fine with that but in terms of Minutes, he's not going to play 32 minutes now. Maybe we'll in the class. Well, he's just they're not going to play on those minutes not just because of the glut of the center's but because they have questions about his help. But yeah the like month there's a five-man unit. They're up-tempo smart jail and Jason and Robin Williams that I am absolutely certain would be a really positive very good lineup to play that would make everybody all five of those guys would complement each other and make each other's lives easier and they would be good on both ends. I think and they would cover up from different, you know, different limitations of each of them have and we'll see it in the playoffs I assume but I don't think we're going to see it for you know ten or twelve minutes a night quite yet. Even if I would be totally fine. If we did, I think it would be a good idea. We got like even even at the end of the first half like have robbed play off a stent Gama rests and then when the starters would need those usual three or four minutes at the end I have we're usually get the starting 5 like throwing in the mix they're here and they're see what that looks like a Greek god. You're not going to get him. I don't think you know no matter what happens with Tyson Thompson. One of those guys going to stay in there. Probably going to stay as a starter for the rest of the year cuz that the the reliability they provide the same way as something crafty was is going to be more comfortable with but that doesn't shouldn't preclude you from you know, tinkering with what Rob looks like with the starter. So and like boring you just wanting to be a surprise in the playoffs for teams, so they can't really plan for it. I think the the advantages of actually seeing what that group looks like, you know here and there for Thursday. We have a little bit of experience under their belt together should probably offset the potential pitfalls of it. I think the words out on that. I think the league sort of knows that he's that he's good. Maybe they didn't at last year when he played literally 300 minutes or they just didn't think that it was actually going to play obviously there were bigger injury considerations for last year that I think we haven't happened this year. Although he hasn't right. I think this year has been wage. Covet forces having hip injury really sort of direct stuff. So I don't know how well you can hide him because the simple fact is when he's on the court if he stands out Grand so how do you hide a guy who's having you know, 18-minute double-doubles with perfect shooting or a guy who's got five blocks Roblox James Harden or anything now, I think one of the things that I talked about how right like you can focus on these little things about video stuff about how we were doing this batteries doing that better. I think one of the things that has been noticeable in that vein and and again, I'm not saying those things aren't important and I was just sort of making the point that he was good last year too. It's not these improvements have not been completely new is you did see a couple chips the one that stood out to me was getting Valanciunas. Monkeys, you know skilled down there and he that's always been the guy who you worry about and it's again it's cuz it's in beat us there. Right and you look at him being said, well, he's five inches taller than Robert Williams in a hundred pounds heavier and like really be able to handle those matchups. Anyway sort of think of more sort of Defending its face. He has had a couple of matchups this year where he was playing against a more traditional posted guys were he was completely fine and that I think is actually a big deal for the amount of minutes that he can play and how consistently you can get them on the floor cuz at this point, I don't really know who the matchup is where you're like, we can't play him because Tristan Thompson or Daniel, theis is so much better of a match up for those guys. If you had if you had somebody who was seven one or if you had Derrick Favors or somebody like that who sort of specialized in that type of matchup then that might be a little bit different with the guys. They have they they can play him every night bar in foul trouble or injury 22 minutes 24 minutes, whatever it might be and they should cuz he's best who's the best of the three so play him And we just keep saying that right on how many minutes we've been recording here. But we just sort of keep coming back around to that being like yeah, he's really good and he should play it's I don't know. Well, you know, who else is what I want to see more of personnel a lot more cars. I gotta look this up right now the tires timelord minutes have been very have been very interesting. Yeah, they've been better than the Thompson Thai song that's like not saying a whole lot and you can obviously tell why it's because Tysons spacing creates some at least a little bit like I was saying rob create space and tice creates a small space and Thompson doesn't create any space. And so I think when you put them together you get you can like eek out enough space for things to work. And so that does seem to be a lineup that has worked up to this point. I also think that it helps that rock impossible a little bit like an even if his his passing numbers don't look great. We know that he does have the ability to to pass the ball a little more and so both of them have like a little bit of passing that helps birth. God make functional lineups. Is it terrible are you looking up right now? And it's like no. No, I'm looking up. I know I know it's very good. I'm just trying to get too. I think it might be like the best is the best way over on the whole team under let me look at this other than Peyton Pritchard and jephte right? No. No. So here we go. This is the best lineup guess they've only played 66 minutes together with 12 games like five times as much as the guys we think of their best five and play and plus 28 net rating. Yeah. It's pretty good hundred twenty volt offensive rating 92 defensive ring. So that's that's when you're the defensive presence has not been there and I only want to look up what the theis off Thompson outside is mostly but the offense has been just brutally bad, right? I think maybe it's come back up both were bad over more certainly that so the offense is find out that good so they often so it's a place It's a point five plus negative net ratings. It's actually a positive. I am now Thompson size three hundred twenty five minutes their defense allowing a hundred thirteen points per game per month. And then the offense is the same though hundred thirteen, which is pretty much an above. Well above average offense in today's NBA. So it's they just wait we saw him after 5 last night that group just I mean, they can't stop anyone really it seems like and so even whether they're playing teams that go bigger teams like no small. It's just they're they're winning hands a good learning often. It's not a good laugh and nobody knows it's not a good lineup Brad Stevens knows it's not a good life. He's known as not a good lineup for a while, but it's going to go away his whatever it's gonna go away. Well, I mean, he said that he's going to go away pretty much. I mean he said but it's not going to go away because of because of Rob it's going to go away cuz it's smart. I mean Rob part of it because if you've been playing really poorly then it would go away and different shape, but mostly it's a smart coming back and and live person to come back and they're going to need to find minutes log. And hopefully they make a trade that that adds another player without taking somebody out of like the core part of the rotation and that that will further change the shape of the team. So you think it has to go away but who knows you never I mean Brad never ceases to surprise with his decisions about who he you know, who he wants to play and he's been off over the years been pretty consistent about the line up like the the type of line if you want to play that he doesn't want to play to Biggs and things like that, but he's added that little wrinkle to his history of surprises in some big situations, which usually have worked. I mean right up to say that it's not that they've got they always gets it wrong oftentimes. They work. Like I said, we start with that I said earlier about enes Kanter, right? Like I didn't want to see enes Kanter but like you can't deny that last year enes Kanter was totally fine. Brad played him a lot and like to kill the team we make some surprising. We'll see. I don't know. I'm rambling again. No I'm podcasting is that we do a job. This is a podcast. It's made for rambling. All right, that will put a bow in this one will be back. If you guys plenty here the wing play Spot next couple of weeks as if the rumors start swirling more and more as traded lights up as a Celtics potentially make their first edition since the 2014-15 season in season I should say but for now Rob Williams 20 minutes per night count on it going forward and keep an eye on what happens with Thompson and tice in the coming days as we see some I don't know. I think what's your prediction right now on a trade? What's your name? What are you putting? What are the odds that for you on any trade for a stylist radio any trade? I still think they have to do something. So, I don't know 75% filled every month. Yeah, 75% they'll do something bigger than like exiling Jeff Teague, right? You'll do something above that. Okay. All right. I think they have to still I know there are saying that going to but like I don't know it just seems they really want to run this team through this Gauntlet of to the end of the season and then just like it seems like a bad idea. Well with five games and seven nights, they'll have a good look at to see if that's a good idea or not games every seven nights for the rest of the season like, you know, maybe have like, oh, yeah, that's true ending up in games. It's like, oh, yeah, like every 12 game stretch from here to the end has eight games in it until like the last week of the Season like they have a break it's it's ridiculous schedule and they're not the only team obviously but like entire league has a full schedule but that's part of the reason that that you can justify having three centers as we talk about but you could also really use another wing of some kind who you trusted to play some of those minutes Jalen can't play for everything right? I think asking exactly asking those guys, especially when every single game this other place your seems to be closed barring a a random blowout against Houston or but like I think they try I like to like Dad more more clutch minutes exactly which is right, which is not surprising when you look at the roster, but also something that you know, if you want to have anything left in the Tank Engine song House for your your top guys, you're probably want to at least either give them some reinforcements or B. Get a better team just so you don't have to be in that situation against the parody of them both conferences right now below the top five or six contenders. All right. So the other they're fall Ryan as always a danger card on Twitter. You can catch us at winning plays pod for any feedback suggestions et cetera. And I talked to you know, shout out your relatively new gig at this point to follow me not to follow and masslive.com. You can you can read me at masslive.com. Thank you for looking out for me home. Um, yes, but yeah, so hit us up plenty of coverage coming on MassLive throughout the next couple of weeks and Beyond and we will talk to you guys later this week.

Tristan Thompson Thompson Rob tice Daniel theis Celtics Justin Patton Rob Williams Canter Brad Stevens Brian Rob Brian bernardoni Jacob Williams Marcus Smart Center or document Center Chris Haynes Baines norvel Pelle NBA
Kemba Walker Concerns, Brady & Arians Headed for Showdown?

Boston Sports Beat

10:49 min | 7 months ago

Kemba Walker Concerns, Brady & Arians Headed for Showdown?

"Welcome into the Boston Sports beat daily podcast presented by bet u s and we're going to get right into it and talk about the Celtics who missed a tremendous opportunity to take a one nothing serious lead drop a game one of the Eastern Conference Finals to the Miami Heat in overtime. This is a game Brian Rob. We're going to bring you in here. It's a game. They led by Fourteen Points early in the fourth quarter. And you know, it was the storm last night. They'll be the story all day today the late-game execution obviously in this game. There's a lot of individual possessions. You can scrutinize General mentality philosophy about how they went about it. But I mean, you can even take this off to game seven against Toronto and a couple of games in that Toronto series where it was almost as if the Celtics were trying to give the game away, they they take on a totally different identity late in ball games and this certainly become a problem in the deeper you go into the playoffs the harder it is to survive it and Miami made him pay your question Johnny can even go back to the regular season to see something like Bruno losses in terms of crunch time. Offense that went wrong things in the way they're so this is not new for this team. They may have to overcome it and gave someone against the Raptors with great defense and just create you know radio plays by Tatum and smart Lake their wage, but in this spot, you know to me there's a lot of you know issues that play for me. We're just watching back at it Tatum and Kemba where the the only two Celtics to touch the ball and offense in the last 3 minutes of Regulation. That's just not going to get the job done in a situation like this it made the offense too predictable and particularly when kembra really didn't have anything going on offense in terms of creating good shots from self all night and left him and Tatum and and really tough spot. So some of the blame goes to those guys are just having you know Federal recognition. She kind of get their guys involved in the floor and their life, you know, perhaps even went into overtime of the time out in his pocket. They're so you wonder hey as you sees that in floating maybe he's better off, you know, bring the guys together there and, you know trying to draw some more off. Up that gets at least the bottom of your a little bit more. Yeah, and that and you mentioned Kemba and this is the thing that's going to really stand out is Kate them. Again. It's interesting with Tatum his last three games his lines of language look fairly similar, but this is a game where you kind of scrutinize some of the late game choices Brad stood by them in the post-game and Tatum himself said, he you look you're not going to page him for that block late in the game by to buy. Oh, that's one of the great, you know, defensive players you're going to see that's that that was actually what you wanted to see him do more is taken to the you'll live with that result. If there was more of that before long, you'll take that all day, but with Kemba it's difficult to figure out what it is he can do right now and again, you don't want to say this with with someone that was probably our second best player in an All-Star, but he's trending at this point last three games or so towards liability territory when he's out there because he's killing you on offense because he can't get off. He wants to go and dribbling the air out of the out of the ball and and and and winding down the shot clock and they're settling for bad shops, but defensively also a struggle and you wrote about this a bus as far as Journal kind of the Celtics Tampa problem right now. Yeah, it's I mean he works are kinis in a far better place defensively than the last point guard. That was your last book, you know, that's but that's pretty low bar. But in a situation like this good decisions against the Heat team that is really smart and will punish u r t and he had three crucial issues in the last minute of Regulation over time, whether it was odd not getting back in transition on the Hero3 whether it was helping off of Jimmy Butler Miami's Best Player when you're up to and he's open for 3 in the corner, like that's just something a veteran All-Star cannot do he needs to be smarter that he's be put himself in better spots in that on top of him. Just being a you know, a liability defensively with this with his size the time so he can't be bad at both ends of the floor. Explain the series and so I kind of look at it moving forward and game to John and I say like defensively that's something he can control more right now as compared to a shot. And so that's that's something where I look closer for the former strides cuz otherwise, I'm not sure where you go if you're Brad Stevens, right and I mean so sure you can button those up and you can survive some games but without Gordon Hayward around you really need a consistent offense from most nights from two out of your three or two out of your four players, or you got it from Smart in game one. And obviously that was a huge burst, but you you're not going to expect smart mm down as many threes or as many shots consistently as he did so between really it's that big 3 until Hayward is available and if he's effective of Jalen Kemba and Tatum that have to get it going off of those three are off. It's really hard to get enough offensive flow out of this group to survive a team like the heat. So what does Kevin need to do to get it back a little bit again? Yep. You don't think he's moving as well as he was do you think there's something physical here or is there something they can do with him to maybe free him up a little bit better. Yeah. I mean you have to wonder a little bit physically. They won't say anything publicly. Cuz what took them at all in the midst of posing as Nikes, you know, they're going to shut them down or anything like that. But the first that was there earlier in the postseason doesn't seem to be as good as it wasn't in game one. Now that you know anyone can a bad night or when you're just not feeling great with that knee, but on top of that I think you have to look at that if your breasts even say okay if he doesn't have that and he's been just been struggling again to a rhythm. Maybe you get creative with him off the ball a little bit and get them in places where he has more space and you know more freedom to develop for a jumper in a sweet spot. So he has been able to get to those pots much money on but again, Miami is not as good as a defensive team as Toronto. He should be able to get there. He wasn't facing the box of one last night. So right you should have options there and you know, smart winemaker you have authors. Guys that can handle the ball and you know get Kemba in two spots where he can get comfortable again. And that was the thinking is to Miami would not be able to give him as many problems as Toronto. Did you almost felt like it would be liberating for him to enter this series where he'd be able to maneuver around their guards a little bit better and you weren't going to get as the same level of Defense of pressure that's running was bringing and it it looked very much the same. Uh, we got the same Kemba Walker that we got the last two games of the Toronto series. So it's definitely worrisome. We'll see what happens game too is on Thursday. Make sure you follow Brian Rabon Boston, especially if you haven't subscribed to Boston Sports Journal will have coverage leading all the way up to the game and of course during and after so Brian, thanks for joining us. Like, all right. Thanks Brian Quick word about our sponsor and that's bet us football basketball baseball hockey all going on right now. So you need to get down your bets. I only endorse one sports book and that's bet you, why you ask well bet u s is the pioneering online betting with more than 25 years in the biz. You need a sport spoke with integrity and Longevity. You need to make sure you get paid. So here's what you do to sign off. What about u s.com fill out your information or only takes a minute when you get to the part that says, how did you hear about us in that box, right Boston Sports Journal once again bet u s.com and when I ask, how did you hear about us? Right Boston Sports journal in that box and get up to 150% off on your first deposit. Once again, that's bet u s.com. All right moving on to the Patriots week to Thursday coming up against the Seattle Seahawks week one the Cam Newton show first chance to see him in a Patriots uniform certainly a successful debut. He was terrific on the ground seventy-five yards rushing and two rushing touchdown. In the air a bit of a mixed bag and Greg Bedard would like to see some improvements moving forward. I thought the cam at the end of the day. I think he completed like 79% of his passes. You know, I wouldn't say they were first of all, they weren't very high degree of difficulty. I think when I went and I graded my graded the film and of course failure loves to nice. I have my chart out get the dog. I don't think I had him for a plus throw in the game because I didn't think any of them were that tough. I thought that the one really tough throw was more of an element catch over the middle then a great Newton throw. I thought Edelman kind of bailed him out. I thought that there were a couple of high passes including the Edelman drop. Yes. It was a drop but it also was he was wide open in the middle of the field. He had to leave his feet. I'm not saying that Edelman shouldn't have that that it was Newton's fault. No Edelman should have caught the ball. He should have but dead. Past should have been better. And then there was another throw to element in the flat where it was high and Edelman took an unnecessary blow in in. Those are the type of throws. You do get with Cam and it's something to monitor going forward. That's just when he misses he misses high and those passes could turn into turnovers. They could turn into injuries for some of them receivers and tight ends. But you know, I thought all in all I thought it was really good as for the Patriots former quarterback Tom Brady had a rough debut in Tampa threw two interceptions one was a pick-six in a lost to the Saints cock his head coach Bruce Arians was critical of Grady after the game and Greg Bedard wonders whether that might come to a head if it continues it doesn't look good in week one if it continues not to look good. Who do you think's going to get the blank? Do you think Bruce Arians is going to sit back there and say like Belichick we need the coach it better. I'm doing a terrible job coaching. Yeah, all that stuff. He'll know, you know, Bruce Arians has to be the genius the corsage. Whisper and he is going to throw Tom Brady under the bus and also if this starts to go bad because in this game, it looked a lot like the Patriots offense there were some of them there were some of the wrinkles that that Arians likes to do, but it was a lot of what Tom Brady likes to do if this starts to look bad, how long do you think it's going to take till Bruce Arians says, you know what we scored a half ton of points last year. We always have in my offense doing it my way. Well Tom, you know what? We're not we're no longer going to do it your way. The guys are confused. They don't know what to do, and we're going to go back to our office fence wait till that happens and see how that goes. Okay. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Thanks Greg Bedard. Thanks Brian Rob with the Boston Sports Journal. Of course. Our sponsor is BET u s.com. Please make sure. Go and sign up. Tell them Boston Sports Journal sent you.

Tatum Boston Sports Journal Jalen Kemba Celtics Edelman Bruce Arians Toronto Patriots Greg Bedard Miami Tom Brady Brian Rob Gordon Hayward Boston Kemba Walker Brad Stevens Jimmy Butler Brian Rabon Boston Brian Quick
76: 10 bubble questions for Celtics

Winning Plays

56:03 min | 9 months ago

76: 10 bubble questions for Celtics

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network. The leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. Hey there welcome back to the winning players podcast with Brian Rob Mike. Mussina. I am rich Levine and we are recording this on Thursday Celtics are officially in the bubble. We are exactly two weeks from the scheduled restart the NBA season. So today we're going to go ahead and Tackle 10 random bubble questions. But first as always, please subscribe to this podcast wherever it is you listen, give us a follow on Twitter. That is at winning plays pod going to shout out to see on this media. Shout out to betonline.ag page of in Mike 10 questions. We're going to do four minutes for each. All right, we don't want to make this a crazy pod where we go for two hours. So I'm just going to jump into it. First question. I'm gonna start with Mike here. All right, boss Michael peanut which Celtics player is most likely to violate the bubble and Bee reported by the by the snitch hotline that's up and running. So right before we started to record wage. I took a look at this question and I texted you guys that the obvious answer had to be in his Candor but upon further reflection and how you kind of worded that rid of the whole idea of reporting someone anonymously is to get them in trouble. And if I'm a player or a coach on a different team, I don't really care if enes Kanter gets in trouble or get suspended you prefer. He doesn't exactly exactly be like, I don't even know what the exact opposite of calling in in the Anonymous hotline and Reporting in a scanner would be probably doing absolutely nothing and throwing your phone out the window, but I think if I were, you know, someone who works for the Sixers or the Raptors or the bucks or whoever I would you know, I was thinking about that photo that the Celtics took as a team wearing the Duke shirts for careless and who was recently named the woman's head basketball coach at Duke and the only player birth. Only person in that photo without a mask was Jalen Brown. So all of a sudden he just shoots up to the top of my power rankings of players that I think will most likely get called out on on the anonymous tip hotline be robbed was as a limit on one of those groups humans yet. Like can you guys ask him about that? Cuz it seemed it wasn't accidental right? Like I mean you could see them was in his hand. But okay. Yeah. I thought you could but like clearly everyone decide before the picture that they were going to be wearing their mass. And I mean, it's a great smile. You can't actually Lance. My name is great. But that was a weird. I don't know. It was a statement. It was it was weird. Yeah, it's again the the bubble protocols to me are still as we see all sorts of video from down there of teams together and stuff like what's allowed and what's not allowed is very hazy to me in terms of the Mask wearing since I think there was footage of Damian Lillard Stellar last name. That I saw somewhere in the bubble. And I mean it was clearly after dinner and every known in there had a mask on which I assume is fine, but maybe maybe it's just like hey were eating but for that situation rich, I agree. It was like he was the one guy I assume maybe he like left it somewhere. It's like re just take the picture whatever. I saw it in his hand, but we'll have to get cheese cake. Yes, I hate jail and you guys know that I'm the most do they accept outside calls for the hotline. That's what we need to get Hands-On see if get that number. But yeah, my answer is still can't hear just because I worry that he would just document what would happen when he's actually breaking the rules by posting something to Instagram or one of his other social media channels, but or maybe you know wild card here could be Tatum for just walking out of bounds on the golf course off. And inherently breaking the bubble. I didn't fit this we have some time. I didn't fit this into the top ten. But who is the best golfer on the Celtics peanuts? You have a do you have a thought on Jayson Tatum flooding in golf career, you know, I don't know if you guys but he tweeted today I think or recently up photo of a broken Golf Club on the course saw that yeah, I mean, what is the anger issues here? I just I don't know how but golf have I ever played golf? Yeah. Yeah. I played in I played in high school. So you understand. The anger issues is the most frustrating know especially when you're Jayson Tatum and you used to being with great at everything you do. It's a gentleman's game. You're not supposed to be smashing golf clubs and throwing bags and that sort of thing. You gotta keep it's a it's like a mental Tesla. You gotta keep your cool. That's the beauty of golf. So I was just power Mike. He just hit the ball so hard. Yeah noted down. Ami of the podcast Jay King of the athletic wrote a feature about Jayson Tatum's burgeoning golf game a few weeks ago Glory Global feature. Yes. I spent the morning that morning when I saw as soon as he sometimes like me and him whenever one of us will tweet something out we'll get a text literally within 5 Seconds just trashing the tweet and that's what happened. But I spent like the whole morning just just a tweet rainstorm on his head about I should say a text rainstorm where I just could not believe that this was a thing because picking up golf this late in life and this is pretty late in life to pick up golf. It doesn't sound like it and I know that he's like a world-class athlete and his form wasn't like the most it was a pretty bad form, but it wasn't the most terrible form I've ever seen it's Toyota top near that tall. You don't see many, you know, yeah. Yep. You are tall you do just like because of physics you're able to swing harder and whatever. I understand all that but like he's doing like half swings and the trainers saying that he's consistently hitting it over three hundred yards. I'm just like there's something wrong with the ball like is the club legal. Are you just like flat-out lying? I'm very skeptical of all of this month and I want to see like, I want to see a short game. I want to see him. I want to see him chip. I want to try to get up and down. I just there's like so many questions that I have about this and I just can't accept that. He's a good golfer. Well, we're going to have to he's getting so many people to film his teammates to play from down there. We're just going to have to request a live stream of a whole just to just want her Mike's from Mike's wage critiquing here. I'll just say I saw I saw clips of Daniel theis at the driving range today. That's one guy. You don't need him to come down with it with another injury. What was he doing? And he was out there to him. See what your swing on the swing and the driving range. But like if anyone's going to come down with major back problems from from just just going out in the driving range and try and hit the shit out of the ball in the first time like it's going to be theis. All right, let's see we've talked about Cantor another Dark Horse. I think for violating the the bubble is I think Robert Williams just because life he's young. Yo, encourageable. He's not, you know catching flights to Leon time flights of his life. Like yeah, I could really see him just completely I could see him honestly not knowing why he's in the bubble whether or not there's a global pandemic happening. You might be breaking news to him on that front. So shout out to him just completely living in his own world fair to him. He hasn't been laid for anything. I mean he started with you know, but like, you know, there was you'd think okay you missed a huge wage. Like that that's going to be a big problem going forward know. He's he's shaped up. So I don't know. I think he's he's locked in I'm here and I'm going against Mike here. Okay. So question to speak of him being logged and who's going to have a bigger impact on the court in the bubble. So let's assume that we'll talk about this later. Let's assume that somehow we play out this entire season in the playoffs who is going to have a bigger impact for the Celtics. Mom has cancer or Time Lord. If you rub you take it. All right have two answers the Celtics wanted to but there's only one answer their books. I mean, this is the answer everyone wants it to be is time long, but the real answer is going to be Canter. I just think that with again this is assuming that cantor's right and healthy again and and mobiles and he actually had a pretty strong couple of months, you know before he suffered that hip injury and then really kind of fell apart and January and February off. Rob Williams, so I just don't think he is healthy enough or just going to be able to like pick everything up enough from a reliability standpoint of such a defensive end to to work his way in for consistent minutes. Is it is there a talk of him not being physically 100% or is that like it's his hip still an issue? No brass even says he's full-go, but with him, it's just like wait a couple weeks. Unfortunately the way his career is down so far in terms of his health. What do you think Pina? I kind of think I would like to think that this is a matchup issue. So it really just depends on who the Celtics play in the play-offs i e if they play the Philadelphia 76ers at any point in a playoff series, I think can't do it would be way more important because Jake Paul you can give it minutes against the team that doesn't really shoot a lot of Threes And he won't kill you on the defensive end and he's just kind of their biggest strongest dude at the five who can at least muscle Joel embiid. So I mean, we've been saying this for a while since he signed with the team, but I think I like him the most in that particular match up but then like just generally I might just go with Cantor because life is like as much as we want to make fun of them. I just think he's been through more different types of situations and can handle this like really weird unprecedented wage. I'm stands playing in a bubble that like I just I give the nod to Veterans over young players, but you're saying he lives in a bubble. You said the time lord lives better too long to wait, but there's I know his bubble is outside the actual bubble though. And so there I don't know what the quantum physics there how that all interrelates but I I'm just going wage enter. I think he'll you know, I think he just knows who he is more. He's more confident in his own NBA ability than someone like Rob Williams who will just keep trying to block every shot and just really be energized and on 10:00 at all times. So ideally like be rep said you would hope that someone has athletic with all the physical gifts that Rob Williams has would be the answer here, but I just don't think is what do you think Rich? Yeah, and it probably is Canter I would say I am optimistic About Time Lord though, and I think that the biggest thing I think it was Marcus Smart this week who said that wage He thinks the games really starting to slow down for Williams. And that's really what it's all about. Right once once he if he can get there or once he gets there. Once it gets to that point where the game slows down and he's in again. He's not trying to block everything else is understanding what's happening as opposed to just reacting with his and synthetic ability. I got my hopes up a little bit that he's going to be able to play a significant role Off the Bench and maybe won't be as consistent as Cantor and monthly. There are so many variables here, but I'm going to say Cantor but I'm optimistic that that time Lord will will have his day and or a couple of days as a suffix make their run wage. Okay. Yeah question three, where are we who will be Boston this second leading scorer? Well, assuming that the Jayson Tatum's going to leave the Celtics in scoring he took title from from Kemba at the end of the the old regular season. Who penis is you who is the the Celtics second-leading scorer in this the restart? I'm not going to get cute here. I'm saying Kemba Walker. I mean that's his role. I understand all the physical issues and the lingering caution with the knee but I'm assuming that he'll be able to play and be ready to go by the time the season kind of rolls around in a couple of weeks and then by the time the playoffs roll around and you would think that maybe they'll let him read back during these eight games too and be really easy with him. I mean that's just like what he's here to do is score that's his role and he can score in buckets and he can get to the line and he can sneak up threes and he's comfortable working off the ball pin Downs wide pin Downs. He can get to the rim. So like I just think he's he's the easy answer here and I'm not going to get to I'm not like money it up with someone like Jaylen Brown. Guess what? I'm going to be cute and I want to say Jaylen Brown. Yeah. I just don't. Think Kimba is going to be on the floor. Long enough to be the second leading scorer ERM at least during the seating games. We'll see about the playoffs if they can get him. But even then, you know, if you're Brad Stevens plays a game every other night and you want him to last especially if you're going to lose Gordon Hayward for a few games in the Conference Finals if you make it that far then I'm I'd keep in Cambodia 30 to 35 minutes as much as I can and that means tatem Brown and Hayward go up to 35 to 40 on a nightly basis. Rich and I feel like out of that group Jalen's the one is probably going to take the be the most opportunistic in terms of scoring in that I had him in Hayward. Yeah, and I had a couple of questions but will say that cuz we're going to talk about him a little bit later, but I actually agree. I'm going to I'm going to break the tie with Jaylin. I think I just think that I don't know. It just it just seems that Kemba might be ready to it's crazy to say this right? It's not even wage. Through his first year with the team after setting the deal that he did but maybe is ready to to let those two guys take the lead a little bit and that's not to say that there aren't going to be you know, plenty of games where he's not the leading scorer second-leading scorer, but I just think it's a it's a combination of of Kemba maybe wanting to to slow play it as it gets back into it and maybe for the for the whole run if you needs to and Jaylin just really being ready to explode after what he showed in the in the old regular season and sort of the the grill that he's made as a human being it seems during you know, the the pandemic and and the the protests and all it just seems that he's ready to take a similar leap. Then that what Tatum made at the end back in the winter. So yeah, I'm saying Jalen could I just jump in real quick and say wage question to be robbed if I were to I want you to rank these two things in terms of what would make your eyes pop further out of your head when I said that wage Olynyk was the worst draft pick of Danny ainge's tenure or if I were to choose Romeo Langford for second leading scorer on the Celtics. Romeo Langford the fact even think about that. Yeah really says every know but it is it's cuz the argument was the argument was sound for Kelly even though it's it's totally wrong throw me out here. It's just completely forgot that Romeo was like a person until about 20 minutes ago. He could be you know, your Fourth Man Off the Bench if he's kind of scary needs to make some threes. Is there an X Factor bench question know we're going to say that for a future but that's that'd be my answer for that. All right, we're going to cut off a minute. Sure. That's good. All right, maybe we can dissect this one for 5 minutes question for of all the players on the Celtics roster. Whose room would you most want to crash in during this song is bubble life like with and and I know there are some nicer rooms and others right? From what I've heard. I think what what Tatum Jalen Kemba and One other guy Marcus Smart. I heard had the four best rooms and the on the team really? Yeah, it's gotta be like punching the wall. Yeah, and again, this isn't from a super so it's super Solid Source. I read on Twitter, but just knowing what to do about the personalities and all that. Whose room. Are you are you wanting to share in in NBA quarantine? I'm I'm going with Jaylin. Because I believe that he would get one of the better rooms. Number one, even though he's not wearing his mask which makes me know you better watch better wear masks and there may I know it makes me a little nervous but I feel like Jalen will have packed a lot of books. I love books. I like reading books in my spare time. I don't know how many of the other guys no disrespect to any of them are packing books. I saw that the MBA was like giving books two players with like a kind of like a care package when they got to their rooms and that's good. Yeah life or something. Yeah, they they seemed I mean one of them was low-key a children's book and I don't know if the NBA knew that or what the deal was so booked. Give me a free plug. I'm black on the name, but it was like it's so there's this book stamped from the beginning which is about like the history of racist ropes in the United States and they did like a remix version for children. And they gave the remix version. I CJ McCollum posted the photo of it. So I don't know if that's everyone or what the deal is. But yeah, I think the Jalen would have books. I like I like books. So I want to see what his little Personal Collection is a little library and that would be a really awesome way to unwind I'm picturing you guys sitting back to back with like like the headband flashlights drinking some tea and and reading that's nice. How about you be rough? Yeah, so I'm going to you know use what we've seen the last few months back to influence my choice you have to I think you have to go someone again someone who has a good room. Here. We rich you named those and you gotta go if the guy that's the welcoming guests and that is Kemba Walker who has not only invited Grant Williams to stay with him down, North Carolina. I believe I've heard that Trent Walters. Just hated him in, Boston, Mass. Before they came out of the bubble and the last, you know during late June and early July. So just on top of that, just seems just like a very chill dude in general not high maintenance, you know will be social and happy to talk to you but also is happy to show with himself. So combine that with the bigger room situation and I'm I'm crashing of Kimbo then there's a fact that Grant Williams went through quite a transformation living with Kemba. I think I could I could I could probably stand to lose about like seven eight pounds I think from from quarantine laws and if I can go in and get him like cameras workout plan and just live him and live that healthy life and come out a little bit skinnier that would be worth it. You gotta consider. Especially if Marcus does have one of the better rooms that maybe he I don't know either take the antibody test cuz we know he had Yeah, I believe he's he's donated some antibodies plasma your plasma exactly so far. That's a good point. You don't you're not going to have to worry less of a risk their. Yeah, and it also Tatum keeps on Tweeting or instagramming pictures of all the shit that he's being sent like just like massive like cases of Gatorade and things like Beats by Dre and a few other things. He looks like he has a pretty nice nicely stocked room. The only problem with that is that once they once they expand the guess and you're going to have like a like a two-year-old in there that probably wouldn't be that sweet wage. But she stay in another room. They got a second room for the family. Yeah. That's probably true. Okay. So we're going to say that Kemba Walker. When's When's this one? Next question is question number five who is the least valuable member of the starting five? So let's let's say that there's one one guy of the Stars. We're going to say Gordon Kemba Tatum Jaylen and time. You gotta cross off one of them. It's like Survivor. You got to vote one out. Who who you voting out first Bureau. This is really tough cuz the my instincts ate ice, but then you're totally reliant on small ball, which is a which is a big problem. Um, I'm doing it anyway, because I feel like that is I'm shocked the way yeah, I just think that's the way they're going to go and a lot of these tougher matchups in the East anyway, and I it's a very tough choice to make tights. That's my guy but I he's going to be piling up fouls in these tough matchups. And so I go up your five best guys, which to be honest. I haven't seen much of this year. It's interesting because you know, you and I both had Gordon on our list for for the worst signings free agent signings of Danny and just ten years. I'm assuming that you're going to say Cordon I am. Yeah and it was a pretty easy easy choice for me. You want to give your your your thoughts? Yeah. I mean, I think it has less to do with what I think of Gordon as a player and more to do with the rise that we've seen from Jalen and just like how those guys overlap and skill sets a little bit off. Obviously Gordon is a better playmaker and a pastor and he just sees the cord little differently and they're not exactly prototypes of one another replicas of one another I should say but I like yeah, I just think when you're kind of looking at all the pieces here. Kemba is really valuable for what he brings to the table. Tatum is like obviously not a question here. I like Jalen a lot for what he does on both ends and how much better he seems to be getting in really small increments and Thai song. Yeah. I that's too valuable of a position. There's just a scarcity behind him if you lose Tice like so you're starting Canter and then where do you go from there when you gotta make substitutions like is Grant Williams your backup 5 and that's just like what you're doing and show me Ochelata here to get big minutes. Like you're you're going you're putting Smart in the lineup and you're going to that 5G. Yeah in certain matchups that could be really devastating like even you know, we talked about the Sixers a lot. But if you're like the Raptors, they'll just play Gasol in a bucket together. I know how to do that and they can play a siakam at the three and then all of a sudden you're like. Okay, what are we doing? So you just need size I think in basketball. Did you guys know that song is important? So I'm I can't I can't pay the there's the title like I can't take tight. That's a great title. I can't take Tice out. Obviously, I think Gordon Hayward in a vacuum a better player more valuable player, but for the purpose of this exercise, I gotta go with I gotta go with Gordon. Yeah, there's exercise in this team, right? And any threat there on the fact that the probably going to be without Gordon for at least a week or so during during the playoffs. They'll have to get get used to playing without him for a really important time. But yeah, they're just but when you got to them and and in jail and two guys at it can do so much of what Gordon does and obvious song. You know, he's there probably not as good then as good as passengers Gordon as they can't create as well as he can. You know, they I don't know if the necessary play off the ball as well as he can but I just think if if you gotta choose you're going with Gordon or I am at least follow-up question for you guys. Do if we see the Kemba that we saw in February and March is kambo the answer to that question potentially. It depends on how bad he is offensively and we're just having a job out there to be a decoy. Is that still at all the time range you a playoff series? I think like when you look at the negative draw him on the defensive end, then it gets to be a legitimate conversation and like You might find yourself in situations as it is where Kemba is you're doing offensive defensive substitutions at the end of games anyway, so yeah it again. Yeah, it depends on like just how bad he is offensively but it would have to be pretty bad. I guess we're halfway through. So let me just say if there's no shortage of action going on at our exclusive wage earner. BetOnline sports are slowly making its way back with the UFC NASCAR and soccer leading the way but online has all the best odds and lines for for the upcoming matches this weekend. If you need more about online has simulated an MBA and UFC happening everyday life you to check out if you're looking for something else other than sports but online has hundreds of Life casino games poker tournaments all the best props in the business. For instance. I saw a very they have some disturbing props and whether or not certain players are going to test positive for covid-19. LeBron test positive just just a 0% chance is going to test positive even if he does. Yeah, it's only 2 to 1 James Harden is is 1.3. Cuz I guess he has the products need a Russian and all that anyways, visit betonline.ag or use your mobile device. Enjoy now to receive your new welcome bonus start playing today BetOnline is your online Sportsbook. No experts a guy that we all hope hope that guy we all hope doesn't get covid-19. If he plays like he did the last two months. Yes, I think it's a pretty clear situation where I think probably in the month of February that was special out. He carried the Celtics to Lynn wins against a lot of lead opponents without with Campbell either on the sidelines or being a shell of himself and a lot of other injuries affecting the season lineup so off there if you guys I can do it on a two-way basis like that. She did during that stretch and if it was simply a matter for him of getting that all star birth and am getting that monkey off his back then that might be I expect to kind of see the six same guy which is the second best player in the East right now. I I love Jayson Tatum a lot and you know that performance against the Clippers I think about like every fifteen minutes off when I'm awake and when I'm sleeping, but I gotta say that I can't just put them above and bead yet and Beetlejuice such a ridiculous player and you kind of like get on him a little bit because of the conditioning and because of the fact that he has numbers were completely static this season despite coming off of a heartbreaking playoff loss in which you would think someone like that would be super motivated to just have a career year cuz he's not even like that old. He's not even in his prime yet. So that's really disappointing but he's still like when he's engaged just there's no way Jose. Impacts the game defensively like he can and he's an automatic double team on offense like and teams just in today's League aren't built to stop someone like that long. So I think if you were to like pull GM's and coaches around the league, they would still say that embiid is the second best player in the Eastern Conference. But Adam, I think like at the end of all this there is an opportunity for Tatum to be considered a top-five two-way player in the world. And that is that's pretty incredible. Maybe even higher than top five. Who knows but right now hitting into this bubble. I'm still going to go with em, b as the second best place conference. Is Jayson Tatum the second best golfer in the conference? I saw I saw a korkmaz try to swing a golf club and I gotta say like I like Charles Barkley looked like Tiger Woods with that one. Like I did one of the great things that has given me a lot of confidence in this dark time is watching NBA players try to golf. I just want to say that cuz like off the fact that I know I could beat like I can't beat Steph Kent Bazemore is extremely good Andre. Iguodala's handicap is like six or seven. What was yours and your Prime? I it was ten I would say maybe did you play for the golf team? Yeah. I played it. Nice Oh, I thought you said you were just playing life. You played high school now? Yeah. Okay. Yeah played for the Newton. Where was the what was the phone course? I remember you guys was real sure. Wow, ten. That's pretty good. Yeah, but I haven't I went out a month. A little while ago when I was in Michigan and it was like I had some I was driving it really well, but like the short game was trash. But anyway, this is not a golf podcast. Yeah. Yep. Yep. We can make it one but just seeing like NBA players like just struggle so much with what is technically a sport that I am better than that makes me feel good. I don't even remember that question was is just in the bumper. Sometimes seeing them hit baseballs, too. There's some really bad baseball swings among basketball player wage. Here we go question number seven or did you answer the question did I know? I didn't we ran out of time. I don't I don't think he is. Like I said, I think that MB has the ability right now to to be the second most dominant player potentially in the league, but I think I think there's a chance, you know, I think if Tatum is so weird cuz we're going to see how long Much cuz it really feels like this is going to be like an extra season for Tatum. Right? Well for everybody, right? Yeah, we're just talking about 10, but I think there's like the start of his fourth season. This is is this Thursday. Yeah, is that correct? Yeah, so it feels like this is the star of his fourth season. So what we what we would have expected in this coming, you know late October early November, so kind of what I'm expecting once the bumper hit for a real quick before we move on. Can I read Jayson Tatum's post All-Star break basic stats police twenty. Yes, cuz it strengthened my kids. Yes. They're ridiculous. I forgot how good they were twenty nine point nine points. 7.9 rebounds 3.1 assists shooting forty 7.2% from the field 46.8% from the three-point line on 8.6 three-point attempts per game which like what is even happening? This is a nine-game sample size by the way and 6.7 free throw a temper am so just like those numbers are like what is even happening? He is incredible that that that plus the assists cuz I mean again 303 off this isn't anything to write home about but you know, he averaged 1.6 as a rookie average 2.1 his second year. So like as that, you know, and again and remember he saw those he saw those traps he's going to he had become a better password because the defense is going to be running at them. But like as that continues to happen, he becomes more of a team player and a complete player like yeah, that's the guy we're talking about is as second to be honest question number seven, Georgia. Is Kemba Walker Going to Miss a playoff game due to his knee and beer? I want to go to you with that one. So what what do we know about the the knee right now? There was no that was their surgery and the obvious choice and now there's nothing would off season know there is nothing Beyond rest and Rehab which from people I talked to obviously he wasn't able to do as much of as you'd want being alone by yourself in quarantine without all the amenities that the Seas practice facility would have provided. But yeah, so we talked to him two weeks ago before going in Orlando. He said oh, it feels great, you know been able to do a lot. So everyone's like I couldn't he's good to go here and then that turned into him taking it easy the first couple of years of practice which is like, okay, and then now it's a strictly every other day work out. Schedule for the C string staff and that's Brad Stevens revealed that he had he had felt off. Show soreness after his workouts in Boston in early July. So to answer the question though, I would say no cuz I'm not going to cut it out. But I fully expect him to be you know, a a shell of himself and a few of these playoff games because of the because of the nice since in a situation like right now we're day especially since this is going to be the start of a 12-month grind essentially when you factor in next year and what's going to be a condensed schedule and so it just seems like they're trying to keep as many miles often as possible early on here cuz they know that it's not just this year. It's, you know clearly going to matter for the Long Haul to wait. So you think he won't miss a playoff game. No, I think you know be grinding it out and not be effective. So it's means we'll be limited but I don't expect him to miss. Oh definitely miss seating games. I don't think I'll miss a playoff game do with me. Yeah, I think he'll miss both. I think there's like no doubt in my mind that they'll sit him out for the back-to-back. I think it's against the Nets in one of those eight games. And then I don't know. I just the odds suck on him missing at least one game and you would hope that that is in the first round and you would hope that that is when Gordon is still around and not the team can kind of swallow. Maybe they have a serious lead 3-1 or something like that too. Oh and you know, it's really interesting just quick sidebar life. Now that I'm thinking about this like having a series lead is so weird now without home court and like how does it seem come like what do you even look forward to if you're like down to oh and yep. Well, they just smoked us twice and we're going to play on the same court. I was thinking that too. I think they're going to be a lot more sweeps and a lot more for ones than we've used than we're used to seeing like you can't like you may say like that seems a little worse but they'll probably steal a game or two. Once they get home like that's just not going to happen in. Yeah, that's weird. But anyway, but for you when you say that you think that they can bill will miss one birth and it's it's tough cuz I guess it's like it depends on how much we know about this injury, but if he's missing them early, I wouldn't assume that it gets better. You know what I mean? Like like dead. I don't know like it just makes it makes me think that if he's missing them in the first round that it's already an issue like it's not like he's going to build up strength in that me it means that it's already starting to to to keep him down don't know if she took four months off. This is longer than an offseason. That's what I'm and it's still hurting then I would imagine surgery is going to happen. So I'm going to be what it is and I know you're saying him getting it through sure that's possible, but I could just see a situation where it was either untenable or just was convenient for Thursday at 6 to be like we don't need to play this dude tonight. So we're organizationally going to make a decision instead of out. Yeah, I mean they're going to have to you know override him in this situation and considering how extensive this investment is and over the next few years. Like it's a month Hydra. It's it's it's a massive contract and that salary cap is staying put or coming down. So there's going to be a lot less maneuverability with him. So if you lose him then wage, you know, you're really under the gun in terms of putting together a championship course. Oh, yeah, it's I'd say I'd long as he plays like four or five of the eight seating games. And then if I'm Brad Stevens I try to like keep him around 30 minutes a game even the playoffs to start just a especially if they you get an early round easy match up where you don't need him those extra miles for which you are in need him for later in the in the routes. Good question. Let's say the opposite of an easy match up wage. So somehow with the seatings fall into place that the 76ers and the Raptors are playing each other in the first round Celtics presumably playing the winter. Who if you're the selfish boxers in the Raptors in the first round. Let's just say that the who okay, I guess it's technically possible. Sure. Yeah, it could be a good 636. Yeah, I'm saying, who would you rather play for the Celtics Philly or Toronto or the opposite who is a better matchup for the Celtics the Sixers or the Raptors? I kind of have a different answer for those two scenarios. Like I would rather play if we're talking about who would you rather play the winner of that series, I would rather play the Raptors because I feel like if Philly gets rolling downhill, they'll be like in their confident that could be a really tough team. So I would not want to play them if they were coming off a victory against the defending champions. but at the same time like I think the Celtics are a better match up today with Philly because Billy was pretty garbage when they were not at home. They have zero home games coming up. They are moving their franchise point guard to a page position all of a sudden based on like yeah, you know what this reminds you of Mike. Do you ever last year when the Celtics put Aron Baynes into the starting lineup that like game maybe seventy eight or something like that? That is like they're moving around cherries on a sinking ship this war if we're going to play point guard. Yeah, like this is I see your point in terms of like if you guys to like if they had momentum after being throttled that's a big confidence boost, but I still think the the clear-cut answer here for me is you would rather play Philly no matter what because not only be do the parts not fit like this is a team like if you're relying on Shake Milton and Alec Burks and Glenn Robinson the third like or Mike Scott to play a meaningful game and a couple of those guys are going to have to in any series then yeah like you want I'll take chances of that. The subjects have had their issues against the Sixers this year bumper have not been full strength in pretty much any of those games be on opening night. And so with a Level Playing Field with no back-to-backs involved with no Encore involved. I'll take them. It looks over for that matchup. I think would be nice to catch Toronto after the Big Philly having that deal with that in a first-round series. Probably get a beat-up beat-up Raptors. Yeah, I think I've you know, I think I'd rather Play the song there's just something about the potential of that Philly team. I know it's crazy and we we talked about him being a we don't know who who are getting. I actually don't have that much faith that and he's going to be able to keep it together in the bubble. You know, it just so crazy thinking I know at some point families are going to be there and these guys aren't going to be completely by themselves. But you know the idea that these guys are going to and I know that's part of being on the road too. But this it's going to be easier than a normal Road situation. Like you can't go out after a game. You can't you know, it's just different you're stuck in Disney World. I don't know how well he's going to be able to keep it together. But it also going to be so difficult with fans are so many variables like is mbda guy that you that we think plays better with fans or or worse. I think he definitely plays better with fans. I mean look at the home-court off Versus away court advantage for yourself to God. Sorry, it's what he does. Yeah, like right but I guess maybe the opposite way to like when that maybe that's why they're bad in the road because he didn't deal well with opposing fans here. That's a good point. Do you the other wild card in play here for the Sixers? How do we think Al Horford? It's going to look coming out of this. We know the full months off for like ten bucks clearly didn't help as much. I do wonder if Horford like he was dealing with a lot and I wonder if that will make him looking like the Horford of old which should actually change things for the morning and any of their line-up changes would so what's his role now on the 10th I can see is he starting know like as of now? No, But still even having I mean having a Horford come off the bench and run your offense in the second unit. And you know, you can keep em beads minutes down like that. That's a not have a huge drop off that would be huge for them. Cuz that wasn't happening before. I know it seems kind of it doesn't seem very inspiring to think about Alan in a fanless Jim coming off the bench just to to spell Joel and beat after everything that he took the Fanfare of him coming to the Sixers. Like it doesn't seem like a winning formula necessarily, but we got to move on question 9 on a scale of 1 to 10 Michael Pina chance. The Celtics can be the Bucks this year. I am saying 5 because that's really weird. That's like that's my like my coin flip number. Like I think I don't want to change the way I view. It is like 6 would be I'm giving them higher odds than not of winning than losing you are you am I am I just like sounded like a complete moron right now or is everyone know I like know I like this rationale like magic and like I feel like five is of good Fair number and I keep coming back to like the fact that the favorites should not be considered favorites and coming off four months off. You can't just say that the Bucks game is going to be The Juggernaut that they were because it just it's just not how basketball works and that they lose the most they lost the one thing that they had over everybody back home court and every exactly and just like momentum and confidence and all that and chemistry and like I this also applies to the Lakers by the way, I feel the same way about them and they're actually like down players already. But yeah, I like I just I thought that the Celtics matched up pretty well against the Bucks before all this happened. They would have a puncher's chance. I don't want to say again. I think if I say six and that means I'm putting the Celtics as a favorite in the match up, which I don't think so. I'm just going to say there and even split. 0 I'm at a three. Wow. Oh, yeah, I mean like we're 10:00 is the the best chance, correct? Yeah. Yeah tennis that's not saying a hundred percent. But that just seems yeah, I know. Well, yeah like but yeah, it's a 3 cuz I can't miss me I would go and closer to 5. We're Mike settle that but the way things are started with camper here. That's I think you're going to need him to be pretty close to a hundred percent to to take them down. And I just don't think the odds of that right now are great based on how they have to hang out of this knee right now. And so, you know, maybe looks right the first round but is he going to be able to sustain and playing every other night into September when you'd see Milwaukee presumably wage. That is scary. So yeah, like well, like like I said in terms of you know, the Bucs lost some Court they lost, you know, the it's a fresh new season. So I feel like all the birth. Advantages and their cohesion are gone to the degree that can both they're healthy. And as of right now the Celtics are not until we see it on the Ford. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to say 6 maybe even 7. I just added it damn seven. That doesn't mean I think that the 70% chance that the Celtics win that's just like my confidence level and their ability to beat the Bucs in a series. I just think again, I just think mentally off the Bucks are the Biggest Losers of the restart just as human beings after all they went through to to you know to bounce back from where they were the the the year before foot coming up just short and just being pretty easily without question the the best team in the East like it wasn't even close the regular season and that was only thing how how would the Celtics ever going to go to Milwaukee and and and and win a series? I think that that's gone. I think now they just they lose a little bit of that like and I know they still have the honest but they they had that sort of error of like Serperior. Yep. And I just think it's gone a little bit. You know, I just think that it just evens the playing field a lot more and I think that like they're going to become a dad who the the Celtics and this is a lot of this has to do with how may as well is Tatum Arte them in jail and ready to maybe pick up a little bit of the slack. They might lose with Kemba not being at 100% but I tend to think that they both will be ready to do that off. And whom am is Chris Milton power is against the Celtics going to carry over the Florida. I don't know about that. He's Superman. I have a I have a quick question that you just made me kind of think of Rich. Yeah, would you guys rather have going into this bubble or whatever? Jonas and khris Middleton or Tatum and Jaylen Brown I think you're honest in Middleton. Yeah, Jonas Middleton is that like a slam-dunk was like easy answer for you or would you do you have to like think about it a little bit? I didn't have to think about it very much in like maybe next year. I'll have the thing about a little bit more two years a lot more but right now I just think yeah, this is just so far and away. The best in Middleton is is the perfect complement thought that is this Milton against the Celtics. You're most leaning against everyone else that that does change out cuz I think about it and one thing I wanted to say, I think two guys the two NBA players are going to have the hardest time staying at Disney and not being able to experience Disney World or the Lopez twins, like the chances of huge accident being able to stay in their rooms and not go check out Epcot and ride It's a Small World once a day that's going to be very difficult. Okay question ten, let's wrap it up. We're going to go for another scale of 1 through 10 here. Are they going to finish the season and we're going to it seems like a pretty good chance that they're going to start things on July thirtieth. They will have the first game whether or not sign will be there after all the conversation we had about the manipulating the schedule to have Zion be the first game wage. As if he's back in the the N schedule ESPN Executives must be like knocking their head against before, you know after cuz he's not going to be back in time for that but it's been who knows it may be if he came back it could be theoretically could be back tomorrow, I guess right like in the back. Are you putting them in there? If you're the Pelicans if you like missed a week of of Adam Silver is got like packed to the Dome of everyone who standing on his way. Dude know that's you're you're playing Zion if he's in the building that's not even a question. So 1 through 10, or are they finishing? Are they counting an NBA champion in October? Don't say five, you know, yeah 5.1. I'm going to go 8, whoa there there's clearly something some variables in player that they're going to have to shut everything down. But I think all parties involved are very motivated here from the players to the owners to the league box itself. And so barring some sort of catastrophe inside the bubble that it's only thing that gets clearly the things that's really going badly outside the bubble in Florida and that hasn't really impacted anything from how the the League's functioning. So that's I feel like that taking the outside world out of it makes the odds go up north east friend of finishing. Yeah, I've been increasingly thinking that they'll just like they're going to do this regardless of whatever's going on in the world so long I'm going to go I guess 6 and 1/2 or seven maybe and I think like I try to think of what circumstance it would take long to actually for them to call this off cuz I think honestly if there was like an outbreak with a team that they would just send the team home which is what the MLS is done. Yeah, and they would multi wouldn't keep it moving and job so I don't for the purpose of actually just playing basketball with all that was invested in putting this thing on I it sounds so dark, but it would honestly take like a death for them cancel it and that's so messed up. But I honestly I can't think of I don't think an outbreak will cause them within a team or even two teams at the same time would cause them to To to stop this thing. So what happens if the outbreak happens during a playoff series that seemed just for cuz the playoffs I don't know but I bet they have all these private contingencies plans in effect where that would something like that would happen. I don't know what they would do and I don't know how far they what their timeline is to push it back. I don't know how much they care about the Olympics and twenty Twenty-One. I guess it would be or like what date they need to start the next season and how how much of an offseason they want to have and the draft and all of that. But yeah, I just I they're not going to just can't they're not going to cancel this thing. They're going to figure out ways to keep it going Crown a champion and get the hell out of there and then come back and figure out how to do a regular season and brutal a couple of months after that. W have a couple of weeks to watch on that front to see how the MLB and NFL was trying to figure that crap out cuz it's either not think it's going to be easy for how long for them. But at least have some trial-and-error there to look at. Yeah, I'm going to say I'm going to say a 6 to I'm not again, it'll take a lot and whether it's as it takes as much as you maybe suggested like, I don't know. I mean maybe it just takes a a player needing to to be in the ICU. Who knows but it's just there's just so many. I don't know it's all these guys already had it already. We don't know if if we have antibodies there. There's that guy just recent Instagram went viral for saying he just tested he got he got again. Don't know if you guys saw that but yeah, I'm going to say 6 it's not anything they're going to they're going to they're going to try they're going to do everything they can to get it to get it in because they need this money apparently home. And I think that's really the only reason and it's going to take a catastrophe for them to call it off. So let's all hope that they that they finish. All right, that's ten you want to you want to say something made it should we say something a little bit more uplifting? Mm. Why did you have this be the last question? I mean, it makes sense like the frequency the first or the last call right last question. What's what's the Celtics record in the seating games? Rich go 7-1 my sex and three I'm going 5 + 5 + 5 + 3. How many games are they playing? What did I say? They're playing they're playing it. You said 6:00 and 3 a.m. Okay. So this is like my fourth podcast in 20 minutes. I'll say what did you say five and three? Yes, you know I didn't get to propose this question. So I don't want anyone on my back about it. I'm going to go to and 5 2 and 5. Is that also bad math or am I right? Yeah. Yeah to 5 and one share goddamnit. Okay, Crawford is going at least 60 in that Brooklyn game. I don't know how they're going to deal with that. Yes. Amen. Amen to Jamal, I can't wait. That's a good thing to go out on Jamal Crawford's back to be happy birthday to miss those getting messages about why this other current signing him. He'll be starting for the net. So, all right. Well, we'll be back next week with an official preview off ahead of I want to say they started actually but it's only scrimmages next week. So two more televising the preseason or whatever those games are. Yeah, I think they're televising what's the game? So we'll East have some games for Thursday. You by the time we get together next week. So stay true for that hit us up at winning plays pot on Twitter and we will catch you guys next week. Stay safe.

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86: Marcus Smart to the rescue (Game 2 Takeaways)

Winning Plays

36:37 min | 8 months ago

86: Marcus Smart to the rescue (Game 2 Takeaways)

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network the leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. Hey there welcome back to the winning players podcast Brian Rob. I'm not seeing it is late Tuesday night. The Celtics are up to on the Raptors a perfect six and O in the playoffs marker smart is not of this Earth will get to all that in a second. But first as always, please subscribe to a podcast wherever you listen, give us a follow on Twitter. That's at winning plays pod. Shout out to see Lynn s media shout out to bed online be robbed a lot to talk about here. I think first and foremost. We got to start with whatever you want to talk about show me yours. You're like a team-high plus seven the game to know Marcus Smart. What was the 16 points over 3 minutes and 4 seconds in the fourth quarter Celtics turned an eight-point deficit into a one point lead. And then eventually I was going to say go home with the wind would go back to their hotel rooms with a with a to Olio and the Raptors thoughts on Market wage. To start the south. I mean that really was I mean we've we've grown accustomed to at some point you stop getting surprised by what you see from Marcus Smart, but but even by Marcus standards and I have a special. Yeah, I mean five 3s and 3 minutes is special for Steph Curry much less Marcus Smart, so we have to start there and there was a dog a Steph Curry comparison in his postgame press conference. So we have to make sure that's out there by who did more just like no no, no, just someone being like, what does it feel like when I think some nasty almost looks like a nice and Smart looks like Steph Curry make your way. You can't really fight that question because that's that's what it look like over that stretch. So actually went by already watch. I watched this whole run with this happened this 29 run rich where they it looks like they were dead in the water and they, you know, turn things on its head with some crowded. When what point in the game is oh that was it was coincidentally. It was right off. After the smart field flop, that's when the Run started when he tried to you know, when they called the offensive foul and nurse had to challenge it because he ran into siakam and it was clearly just in flopping and so they got a three-point play out of that. But from that point over the next ten minutes it was 29 saal 2016 of those points came from smart and it wasn't anything crazy. I guess the best part about the wrench I think like there are no he checks in this run. They were just all good shots most jobs created by Tatum, but we're creative just by him getting most of the attention from the defense exactly. I mean, this is how Toronto's played all series in terms of just bring into Palm help defenders in the neighborhood and Tatum now is showing off these like one hand full court cross-court passes that wage. Smart or someone else wide open and and speaking of full-court cross-court pass is let's just give a special shout-out to Marcus's pass off the the backyard off the shot clock that was wowed the only seen that. Yeah. But anyway, so he's swinging it fast. He's he's he's not holding the ball. That's for sure. Now, he's not and career-high six assists for Tatum in the postseason tonight. But yeah, like I mean smart enough to make him and he you know used the pump fix use just the guys cheating off of and down state and for all for the years of frustration from Celtics fans about him, you know, being a little too confident in his shot nights like this where he didn't have it going for those first three quarters and then bam he's just five or five and three minutes and you talk about the know he checks right? So he hid it was 7:55 left in the fourth quarter when he has the four-point play when OG filed home. To give the Celtics and 86 85 lead. Right? Right. So that's at 7:55 doesn't take his next three until 5:48. Okay, and that that was a mess quickly turn around and Grant Williams got thousands of board Tatum ended up getting a three off the offensive board. So you don't really even blink at that missed shot. That's 5:48. The last 6 minutes last five minutes and 48 seconds. He does not take another shot right page. That's the perfect Marcus Smart game that is in that line up when you know kamba was resting at the fourth quarter and it was Tatum and Grant Williams and tice guys who may even think like looked at the room in that game which left took a shot which is fine, which is like, okay, this is your your job is to get rebounds and play D and but someone's gotta hit open threes and bought a smart was that guy in this game down and crunch time in that ultimately proved to be the difference. And I guess we're talking crunch time. Maybe we should give a little little love to, because we can't give him love for much else for the first the first three quarters of the game, but when it came down to it fourth quarter and this and we and we talked about this a little bit over the last couple of weeks where it's like a right in, talk about this after the game today that typically his entire career if he has a game like he did in the first three quarters forget a playoff game end game, right his team is down too much work even matter by the fourth quarter, but now with this team when we're talking about Kemba in many ways as potentially a third option between after Jason and Jeff on this team can can afford to put up a stinker for three quarters as long as when it comes down to it and what you rely on can before is for those those few minutes. Sometimes it's only a few shots in crunch time. And and tonight he he stood up and took care of business. He did those were any of these shots and they needed all those two two obviously hold down the fort down the wire they're dead. You know Jalen was you know, everyone else is kind of missing a little bit down the stretch there and but can we got a separation and he didn't get down on himself and I think another big thing is too rich like he he brought the deal game you brought the defense like he was didn't let the bad shooting kind of like take him out of focus on that in the floor and so he was able to walk watch other guys hold down the fort firm until he took over the show late. I mean are we going to I guess we should take a spend a little bit more time on this game. But I mean Jason Tatum. Well, it was like was that just like in how uneventful 34 it was like, oh, yeah, 34 points. Like of course she does. Well, you know what it is at that point. Now, it's like the Dame Lillard thirty-plus game. You don't realize it because you know damn goes at the foul line and and again like this when Tatum's with fourteen of fifteen from the line, it's he's going to get his that's what we've talked about that I'll season too but now you you look at his playoff averages six games now for Tatum the playoffs the the 2020 NBA playoffs 27.2 points 9.3 rebounds is up to full 3 assists a game something I noticed today other than other than so of players that are active in the playoffs, right? So take care of get gaubert out get Whiteside out get Myles Turner out. No one that is still alive in the NBA Playoffs has blocked more shots in the playoffs and Jayson Tatum. Him an infant eyes are tied for first both with nine blocks through six games. He is a complete player and and again and and I saw you tweeted out off the late Technical and whatever and we can argue about whether that even deserves a technical there. I know the Celtics didn't put up a stink about it but his defense throughout the game, but also in that and that last possession to where we're currently has the has the potential game Tire Tatum's right there right Nick nurse has he now called time out there? I know you I know the the case for it is like yeah, you don't want to get fouled cuz they were down there down three. Correct there. We had others would follow then they were but they got I mean the rebound with like eight seconds or so. And so I don't know like I'd for as much as you worry about the getting fouled right away. I also don't feel crazy about van Fleet trying to shoot over Jayson Tatum with the game on the line like in transition. Like that's just not how you want that game to age. I can agree with that. And again, it's like one of those things like if ban Fleet somehow hits the shot Nick nurse has a genius for letting his team figure it out on the fly, right? You know, but yeah, I didn't I didn't mind the look especially when like we're saying I don't even think they get the look if they take the time out cuz I'm selfish going to start following then becomes a foul shooting contest and you know the rap how many shots did the Raptors even up taking in that game so long Shooter they didn't shoot was complaining about it after the game. Nick nurse is definitely trying to work some get himself a fine after his comments from that game. I feel like complaining about really wrong. It wasn't terrible but it was, you know being like, you know, Jason Tatum as many as our whole team which was close, but not entirely true. Yeah, nineteen free throws for the Raptors game. I think like they hit the hit more than 16 of 16 of 19. Okay. Tatum was 14. 14 Celtics were ninety percent from the line kind of a sneaky underrated part of that when I am, but yeah, I don't know. It's just I get when you have you know the Mayhem or whatever of a situation like that down three just to get a shot up. But when it takes when you're playing a great defensive transition team like the Celtics, they're like, I don't know. I guess I'd rather be like, you know, draw something up to get them at least a decent look when you have a few seconds to work with but it's fun thing to do is a real quick. Sports keep coming back sports are back. So does your chance to bet on them with their exclusive wagering partner? Betonline.ag Major League Baseball's finally back up and running this summer there in full swing and there's no shortage of ways of the action that online has all the odds Futures and props for you to bet on and a sports returned by deadline of sat down with Eddie George and the NFL 7 time NBA champ Robert Horry Harold Reynolds from Major League Baseball to get their opinions of what it's like to be playing without fans and what they're calling the fan demek visit betonline.ag today to check out all the odds and up-to-date sports news. Don't forget to sign up and take advantage of all the welcome back. Two sports bonuses but online it's your online wagering experts too. And I don't know if if there were any updates on this yet. And I tend to think not but God Robert Williams is but and uh jail and Browns was it was Annie is the so anything after the game anything that you've heard or anything that we can know it wasn't even asked about cuz Jalen came back into that game after that Nick Collision late. But yeah, I mean that's certainly something both of those things are going to keep an eye on moving forward in the sixties because Williams Robin Williams came back and play but he was not the same player. Yeah, he he's very first but he was not he wasn't the he was he was probably still the best athlete on the court right now. He wasn't through times better than every other guy. I mean, we we get to talk after game one. I I want hear your I want Rob Williams analysis right now, please from you. I mean, he's a sponge. I mean if Marcus Smart is now the best player in the NBA. I think the probably is probably close second. But no, it's just it's just so cool that and you talk about that team, right and and the trust that Brad has and these guys and their relationship and that the communication that must exist but for but for him and and it's just too so so seamlessly switch places, right and and Cantor clearly understood coming to the series that he wasn't going to be home. And there's no you know, he was tweeting after the game tonight how much he loves his team. Like there's no you know, he he gets it and I think he knows that that again in the next round. I mean, maybe he's not going to play a game against Miami who knows if they'd be Milwaukee. Yes. Yeah, what type of that a second but that's so funny that it's such possibility too. Sure. But I mean, I don't know I mean and even even when Broadway he hasn't played his best the last two games right? He's made it his fair share of mistakes, even when he's not at his bad. And there's there's talking about the present day and then you see him hit the jump shot that he did tonight took him shoot foul shots the way he does for the most part. I think this is a guy that might have some 3-point range before it's it's all said and done. Yeah, I mean it's it's kind of crazy to think but no the the jump shot has come along in a hurry here. Like we joked around that he had a couple and the couple of the like scrimmage games, but now he said at least three or four in, you know, meaningful situations and he doesn't look I mean, it's awkward but it's it's looks like a decent form despite the form with gray The Touch look decent like he's a guy again like who cares right now cuz he's not going to be shooting threes this season know, but just just looking forward when we talk about like the place that he might have in this team like cuz you talk about the core. I mean right now kembo, who knows what's going to happen Gordon, but like but Kemba Marcus jail and Jason at some point, it's fair to talk about, you know, Rob Williams of whether he's like the future starting center or just just what he's going to be capable of but as of right now, it's just it's great. And again, I think everyone was a little bit bumpy. Booted to see how he was used in the Philly series and you can't really complain when there was a it was a sweep. Right? Right, but for him to to be able to come out after that and it for him not to get too too down in the dumps to come out and took contribute in the way. He has these first two games like it's it's just fantastic to see. Yeah. I mean, he saved their their bus in the first quarter because they were coming out flat and he just is instant offense. It seems like in the pick-and-roll out there and with the put back so, you know, I was going to say if they I don't know I know that they did a special like awards for the for the bubble for the playing games. Yes. I don't know if they do like at all if they'll do like a special all playoff bubble team if Robert Williams, somehow gets a vote. I think we can trace it back to Doris Berg. Yeah, she's been you know, we all we love we love timelord here on this podcast and a I'll Celtics Nation for the most part loves him, but I'm not sure if anyone loves him. Not much has Jewish work. It's great job on a national broadcast it is she does your research and it's appreciated. Yeah another do you want to touch on another William? So from this game and another sneaky sneaky move by Brad. I felt like going to the the Grant Williams Tice front line in that fourth quarter. During that twenty nine. What did you what did you say you got out of that when you were re-watching? How did they how did they affect that run? So offensively not much besides setting a screens but that stuff matters obviously great Williams got the big offensive rebound to get paid him the three at the end of the run and then I thought it another very sneaky good work and move by Greg. It was like an open Corner three off a kick, but he didn't even think about taking it and pass it to Smart first shift three, like he like just just knowing that like where to go out for hot hand in that situation. I feel like The pry the right job for him to take was the corner of three, but he didn't even think of it as like I'm I'm getting ready to spot the guy right now that has it. It paid off Marcus's world, but defensively the the Raptors game 3 of 21 from the field during that stretch and okay and what kind of shots were they taking so they missed a couple open 3s for sure. But a lot of it was just good contested stuff and tice and Grant walk-ins. They're versatile. They can test well at the rim and yeah, they commit fouls but they weren't committing shooting fouls in the situation. So it wasn't really hurting them and that was enough like four as good as the three-point shooting was it was a defense that was just as big in that run because Toronto really lost all momentum there and couldn't get couldn't score when it mattered off. Yeah, just like just looking at ties talking about ties again. That was I don't think that was his best game. But you know, obviously the whole fourth quarter note here really suck his hips. Yeah. I mean it's crazy. But again, he's still doing he's like three blocks. You still had nine rebounds, right? He's not taking bad shots only taking five shots a year that he hit his one 3-pointer month, you know zero turnovers four types, you know, he was having some trouble catching the ball there for a while and game one is still I mean, you know there there was plays I think there was one great pass that Tatum had I think Ty Center of getting filed on the floor. Maybe I missed missed missed remembering that but just just just just solid again third 30 30 minutes there only 8 it's funny that Grand Am playing more more than than Time Lord in this. Yeah, cuz I meant to say 18 minutes, right? Cuz he again he went and is a credit some Brad in terms of like that third-quarter it just you know time log Probably hurt or just not feeling the same and usually we had seen what he'd want really risk more three-point mrs. In the second half so he didn't really get a chance their faith and Wanamaker was given a quick hug to when the Raptors got their offense going. So you actually look at if you look at best two-man defensive units on the Celtics a year-long out of the high usage ones great Williams and types or number one on that list in terms of their defensive rating together. So that's not it was clearly clearly that Brad knows what's up, right? So it's allergies like a random combination like that. You wouldn't think like, okay. Yeah. Those guys are going to play much together double bags against the Raptors like no that's not really a look but in this situation while it triggers the game-winning run, right so I mean certainly that doesn't happen without Smart shooting and Tatum being absurd but I actually like I brought it about on the bosses for sure today just like stuffing Like that like Brad's just browse it was on right now. He's hitting all these rape buttons over the course of these games and it's doing it against a guy like nurse who's month prior toughest code. You're going to go against this postseason. It's he's he's on a hot streak at the blackjack table right now and that and that's really what is wrong in the same way that like a lot of the hot streak of the blackjack tables totally bulshit and like isn't and it's like beyond your control the same way of Marcus Smart doesn't score 16 points and three minutes, you know, or maybe we're talking about Nick nurse outdueled bread tonight, you know know so so I guess moving forward like that's you know, my question for you is like what is it take and I didn't catch the the end. Did you make an adjusted prediction in the series? Like what's it going to take for the for the Raptors to make this a series? So do you know what's so guess what the percentage of teams that come back from a 2-0 deficit? I saw your Tweet and I was I was going to mention it's like ninety three, so it's nice and or something. Yeah, so 7% 6 point something which I honestly thought would be higher like now, what's the percent of neutral Court have come back from? Yeah. Well, but the thing you imagine it's harder to come back on a neutral court, right? Because because most of the teams you figure they they the teams that have come back got go home when they ran to a or who knows maybe it's teams that went that that went down up to so nugget smoke came back from where they was that three one they were in town too on that Series where they they probably split the value games went down 3-1 and then came back. Yeah, so it's I don't know. They this puts Toronto. I mean trials the last team to come back. They didn't last year against the bucks from Chalo. There is an important person missing from my life right now, and I don't know it's just I don't know what you do. If you're Nick nurse right now. He I thought he might get pre-emptive with someone or is practical if some of these switches adjustments like maybe benching Gasol and going small, but the problem is Norm Powell has sucked in the series. So that doesn't really like answer any questions for you. Just cuz he's not, you know providing the offense that he normally gives that mm. I feel like think Norms a lot of time as the guy when someone when someone else is down he steps in like and I could be wrong of this. I don't know how many great games he's had when the rest of the starters have been healthy know like in that bedroom. But again, I mean he played he played 13 minutes tonight. Yeah. He just I mean, he's in his -12 right? He was on the floor during that run. That's for sure. Yeah. He hasn't, you know, if he's not hitting shots. He's not doing much else for you certainly isn't helping you much defensively compared to the rest of that group. And so I mean, it's like there's four as good as those guys are in the regular season. It's now when defense is tightening up. Its I don't know where you turn to page here for offense because that's the bottom line here is this team isn't scoring in tight spots against defense late in games and I don't know I mean game one was pretty much offer, but they couldn't find easy offense down the stretch either. Yeah, and I guess a one hand you look. Okay. So through two games siakam is 147 from 3 a.m. Lottery is one for 12 and that obviously Fred Van Vleet is is five four twenty-three. Yeah, obviously if if that stays true if that doesn't change this could be a sweet but I don't think it's I don't think it would take much more than that to me again. I like like tonight if those guys hit a few more shots, you know, the maybe dead. And and Marcus doesn't doesn't transform into whatever we want to call that. I've never seen anything like that before, you know, it's a different story. This is a 1-1 series and you gotta figure the Raptors have whether you believe in mon. Not not there. They maybe even have the edge but it could it be as easy and we said like a it's a make Miss league as as the Raptors just stepping up a few more shots. Yeah, I mean that they're certainly missing some clean looks um, and that's the law of averages that they will start to fall at this point, but I don't know it's it's one of those things where you know, when you have Kemba starting the game like two of Fourteen and smart being miserable and not much else going for the Celtics and I was still there's just hanging around all these games throughout the postseason, even when they have these bad stretches from pretty Key Parts. And so that just tells me that off. like yeah, the Raptors are going to get a game or two here, but I just think gwynnie four and five is nine Center insurmountable entirely, but this day just haven't been able to do it against his team all season long not just a series, but just all year long and that's It's tough to think that that's going to change the next week. Yes. I don't even know what they can do. Cuz again like you could say, hey place a vodka some more of a 27 minutes for surgery back is about what he should be right? I think that's about what he can play and maybe you roll the dice with with Terrance Davis, right? I don't know like if he can give you a little bit of a extra pop at Powell's not doing it off like but other than that, like they're you know, it's funny we talked about how we felt that the Raptors were were deep team. But now you get to this point you're like, yeah, they don't really have many options. Really don't it's it's kind of just a situation where they rely on their best guys. And when those guys likes yeah, I don't know. I just don't I haven't bought into him. I mean, he's kind of an odd downward slide since the first half the season anyway, but he doesn't look like an All-Star to me, like certainly not a playoff all Stark like survey you guys like Jalen and we talked about this for series like Jason and Jaylen have been able to kind of maintain their level over the years and the postseason siakam hasn't been that guy in the last couple of years and certainly wage. Is it right now? Yeah, it's like you think about how much time over the last handful of years the Celtics have spent focusing on how to stop you honest like in a playoff situation, right? And if you can if you can come anywhere close to to to controlling Yas in a plant situation you can if you want to implement anything like something similar to that strategy against the outcome like that's like, you know, it's like playing all mad and then going down through age. Here it's it seems a lot easier. And again, we don't want to sleep on them too much like you had a great season clear and again again tonight like 17863 Steeles a block only one turnover and 43 minutes. Clearly. The scoring is not there. He's trying to find other ways to contribute but you know and and he came out strong tonight. He came out he it seemed like he was going to try and take control the game, but it just never really materialized. Yeah, he dead. Yeah, it was definitely a very hot first half for him and walk you press like oh gee and press meet a lot tonight. I was just going to say is there any chance that he now it becomes like he's now the siakam to see outcomes Qui. Ike everybody talking about how he's I mean, he's still only twenty-three years old. Yeah, and he was obviously out during that last year's postseason so he's been kind of flying on the radar but he was drilling those countries. He's a hell of a Defender when he's not making dumb fouls three point shooters. And yeah, I mean that's a again a way I could go either way but that's a pretty promising like fourth or fifth option for your lineup. If he keeps on this progression a place like a little bit of like a tight roll for them like serves Swiss army knife except he had does everything maybe except for shot-blocking and kind of does everything a little bit better. Yeah. He really does so and I mean, how much do you think the ankle situation is bothering Lowery in the series 2? In terms of like his production. I mean, you know, he doesn't seem to be moving anywhere. So he's playing he played 40 minutes tonight. So they're certainly not holding him back, right but again know someone someone put this up in a I'm sorry for forgetting who it was on Twitter tonight, but like, you know, someone talked they were talking to Lori after the game and he made some sort of joke about you know, Marcus Smart hitting five 3-pointers in the home and 1/4 quarter. Like, you know, what are we supposed to do when that when that's going on but then they post it, you know, the last few years smarts been a better 3-point shooter than than Lowry. Yeah, it was closed. It was like thirty to thirty-five but it's not like Kyle Lowry and he he doesn't he's an All-Star. He's an NBA champion. He might you know get his number retired and surrounded by but by the time he's done, but he's not a great 3-point shooter off and you never really I mean he's improved too, of course his career, but it's It's certainly been a long road for him from that standpoint. So yeah, it's he clearly isn't getting a look said he gets in the regular season anymore. That's for sure for pretty much everyone on this team short of like o g and a pocket who's been has Tatum been on him. What's what's been the the defense on on Larry? Yeah. It's been mostly teenage. So as you're going to create the Tatum in terms of what he can kind of, you know shooting over Tatum shooting over those long arms is not easy and take him is just really been a pest off all series long against him and that assignment and that is I think you know, you're cutting off the head of the snake in that situation to this team. Yeah, so what do you think? So what what are you ready to cuz it's so dangerous. This is still a really good Raptors team and it's so easy to just like get just just fly with whatever whatever Direction them blowing, you know, and everyone assumes now the Celtics are going to the to the finals and the Raptors suck and all that but it's not going to take a lot for the Raptors to crop to crawl back and see us series, but typically so so game three is on Thursday 2nd on Thursday. Yeah. I mean, I'm expecting the Raptors to win that game. just in terms of Averages I think some threes are going to they have to hit some threes in one of these games and I feel like that's even think you would think they they miss a lot of contested ones. They all suck a lot open once again, so you would think that's going to have to even out at some point. But at the same time they've I mean they've struggled on offense in Orlando the whole life. So maybe it's just one of these teams that just don't you know, whether it's being thrown into tough spots in Orlando night. And then last year again will falke why I really struggled to score all postseason long to and pretty much like that entire game seven against like the the Sixers was just thrown a ball to Kauai and let him do his thing that we can't do anything else. So now you might just be seeing what most team people thought this team was going to be before the season was was just a fun team but not one that can seriously dead. Make noise in the playoffs. We gotta Gordon update. I heard that he's may be on the verge of returning to the bubble. Is this true? Yes, so that's there are no Civic dates put down and it sounds like five weeks. Return to play seems very ambitious according to students which is surprising from one from window at the address for me was injured. So like we're at the 2-week Mark essentially now, I'm back in a couple of days. So I would think realistically like maybe late in the Conference Finals if that Heat Bucks game goes deep down. I wonder at some point. Are they going to wait to start to East finals much later because the West's you know, semi-finals is so far behind with the series. It's like, you know saw this crap is going to play three games before one of these series out west gets even started. So I have to write you think you have to but maybe it might be a thing where they just want off the TV windows and then you're gonna have a long wait before the finals for whoever makes it out so I don't know how to work, but hopefully From a standpoint that they do have to wait it out there and then you could realistically have Hayward back for a conference file system you get their name. Is it for a game until he has to leave for the birth of his son, right? And then yeah, we'll see the timing on that should be should be tough to say at least in terms of I mean you feel bad for the guy off given know stuff how this one we're talking about what we're talking about Annoying Annoying injuries. Did you feel like the the neat week had had anything to do with what we saw from Kemba today? First name? In is cuz he didn't look it's not something they like the I test even look at him and say he's dragging that me or maybe he's not a hundred percent. But like, you know, you see the way he played especially the way he'd been playing for the the handful of games before this and it's it's fair to wonder. So what I'm thirty-eight minutes so again, I don't I don't think if the if it was the need of the suck suck around with that right? It's not worth forcing the issue right now to potentially lose to them for all the work you did to get to this point where Kemba Walker was this was feeling as confident in a strong with that knee you don't get crazy and then start going in the other direction. I wouldn't think so. No not on so I mean they're not pricing on Wednesday. again getting up Like sweeping the Sixers and that first-round, you know any wear and tear you can save might be big in the big picture for him in terms of making it through this postseason grown now. So again the game, you know winning game to is huge for a thousand reasons for the Celtics, but I think potentially making sure the series doesn't go down since you know, give a much better chance of that happening now with that and then you get some extra rest or Kempo when you really need him next round bulb any any closing thoughts. Not really. I mean like I mean covered everything Jalen were you really talk about? On yours too much to talk about saw a job and siakam four turnovers. Yeah, there's nothing I don't know like eight rebounds three steals to blocks. Like he's he's active obviously. He's he's active like playing through a little bit of an injury for sure. It seemed a little bit funky. But yeah it again this is one of those games is crazy. Like you would think that that, you know, Kemba plays the way he did you only get 16 points from jail and regardless of what he was doing a defense. It would take a a superhuman effort from Jayson Tatum, which is you know, Thirty Four Points is is again, it seems sort of just average for him these days but you can't underestimate home and saying that is to prefer to just go out and and do that at this level and then it takes the performance like you got from Marcus Smart, even if it was just in that three minutes per that that changed everything but hey, that's that's all people at the end of the day around only people are going to remember the final score and and that's per. It doesn't matter how they got there. It's a win their up to oh and you would you would have taken this when we started these playoffs phone number. It's always going to start six six know against the Sixers in the Raptors. What can you say best case scenario I'm saying we can go down from here. You can keep up this pace off 16 inch sixteen. And now on the way of the Champions franchise-record six in a row to start to play offs, I guess so I saw the tide the 85-83 the 86 topics. That's pretty good company, right, Well, we'll leave it at that will be back after what could be a make-or-break or will be a make-or-break game three for the Raptors on on Thursday Lebanese early start times. Yeah. I mean, it's it's past 1 a.m. On the East Coast right now even that that's even with the early start right? We'll take that so so get some sleep rest of your stuff again 3 and we'll do our best hit us up at winning play Spot on Twitter at Rich underscore Lovin at brunch Rob, please stuff on the Boston Sports Journal this week as well. Make sure you check out my penis stuff at GQ pumping out. I think a nice overview of Ghirardelli today that got all that. We got a lot of my lot of traction option. So wage makes you up the good work. Mike exactly check check them out over there and we'll probably be hearing from him when he has a spare moment during this series. So in the meantime off greatest views on iTunes or wherever you find us and we'll get back with you guys after game three.

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Payton Pritchard's rank among NBA rookies, Kemba's outlook

Winning Plays

27:51 min | 2 months ago

Payton Pritchard's rank among NBA rookies, Kemba's outlook

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Welcome back to the winning Place podcast with Brian Rob Levine. It is Friday afternoon. Celtics beat the Raptors last night. They host the Pistons tonight. Today. We're talking kemba's me show me shooting creatures rank in the rookie class here. At first we got some big news. So what was what was the official title MassLive you were now the NBA Celtics and empty a reporter. I think it takes beat writer or so that's better reporter. So we'll we'll go fast. But yeah, I'll be I'll be doing some NBA there too as it has a pops up. But yeah, it's be definitely a super job opportunity get started there next week. Obviously plenty of great writers have been there before so plenty of people to follow up with but dead. Jumping right into during trade season will be a fun Endeavor. And yeah, super, you know very much enjoyed my time at bsj very tough too long to leave them behind really love working with all the folks over there and Greg Sean and Conor but yeah excited about a new chapter cool man. Congratulations fair price went back to see I may say your day-to-day doesn't change very much. You're still covering the Celtics you're still doing that but it's always nice to maybe get a get a fresh start somewhere. Yeah. I mean I'll be ran middle of the season is unique to do it, but that's true. But yeah, I'll be again they'll be plenty of Plenty things to cover and then the new spot. All right. Well, I talked about a fresh start and Thursday we're going to do the exact opposite of a fresh start we might talk about Kemba Walker. Yeah, so we're doing this on Friday against Toronto on Thursday. 290 had a pretty solid game right hit 5 threes 21 points five turnovers not great. But again, this is like the fourth the fourth or fifth game where he's right around 30 minutes so you can see him maybe settling in to like the the upload that you'd expect for him for the rest of the season still for this season. So far worse field goal percentage of his career worst, 3-point percentage in a long time lowest points per game since his rookie year second. Offensive rating of his career second highest defense of Reagan's career has not been a fresh start for Kemba Walker in his return from injury and we're not going to expect him to come out gangbusters, right? But where are you staying home? Think about the long-term, you know after we've seen in the short-term. Yeah, so it was interesting to hear such a change. She talked about this on his in his weekly interview with touching each on Thursday. And I thought he made a pretty interesting comparison that that carries way here in terms of talking about you know, yeah, we're not panicked which is dead. Obviously, he's not going to say they're panic because that's why would you so touch her? We're scared shiftless gamer. Scary. This is terrible. Like the the future with Caitlin Brown is in Jeopardy now, like we're we're freaking out. You know, now he's company line. You have the players back because of course you do but he made the comparison to to Mike on me last year in Utah and saying yeah, like, you know, sometimes guys go through Long Function. He was never right last year, but he's great this year. So it's like yeah Kemba even if he strived for another I got a question was like to see if he struggles for you know, how long will it take for you to get panicked? And Danny was like, well honestly like longer than this year. And so I thought that was on one end I get that because you're like Conley in the jet. I mean, he was kind of a similar mode of of Kimbo of a early 30s point guard who or what time? Is early 30s that you know wasn't in a new system wasn't you know fitting in as probably as well as you would have hoped on either in the floor over there at the same time though. I guess I'll throw it to you first. Is that like, how do you what do you think about that comparison in general with we're well, okay. I mean first of all, I mean, he's been okay this year. I mean she she's been better than it was last year, but I wouldn't say has been Mike Connelly. It's a tough comparison first box. I think Connally can defend a lot better than than Kemba right? It's like he's his his value is a little bit easier penetration is hitting a especially now with Tatum and in jail, and the way they are I mean, I don't know that doesn't excite me to hear to hear him compare you can but maybe becoming my kindly I mean the other comparison I thought it was maybe Isaiah Thomas like how fast can can can become Isaiah Thomas if he doesn't turn things around if his knee continue song Bother him the way that you know, I tease hit balls and we took him down but like I don't know I think again the good thing is that I don't think obviously you would love to have the Kemba Walker that you sign a a year-and-half ago or whenever it was right in a perfect world. Yeah you want that guy who was in Charlotte, even if it wasn't going to have the usage, but either way you don't need him quite as much anymore because of what Jalen and and and Tatum had become an agree with that. Right? So like so maybe maybe if Kevin can just be as good as Mike Conley again. Yeah, maybe that's a little bit of a win. But in terms of like Southeast getting the value that they expected of signing camber that doesn't do it for me, you know, it's it's it's a little concerning. yeah, I mean there's no honestly like if you can be Mike Conley the good version my colleague consistently that's a huge win for this others given as you said the the Alternatives here or the boss the the worst case scenarios, which is you know, not you're paying thirty two million dollars to a guy who's maybe a mid-level player at this point in his career If he if he continues or are worse than that to be honest if he continues like this, so I do think from a like from a mentality an attitude standpoint for Kemba Walker the the Celtics this is obviously a probably a big part of why they invest him in the first place. He's a great guy. He's adaptable he works his butt off and he's going to you know, he cares about his teammates just as much as the team. So it just meant here for him in terms of maybe realizing what he can do as a player now as in this next chapter of his career and maybe he you know, not just becoming a third option but like the shots that were there for him when he was at in his prime in terms of going and getting to the rim and creating separation. Those are just not there anymore. Maybe they'll come back in another month or two, but I think he's just like twenty plus two point shots in a row or maybe made one of 20 or something like that over the last three or four games. Is that right? I think there's something I'll look at the concrete read it out the stat but dead. Number like that is like whoa, like what you know, you play they play but the same time they've played tough defense is here, too. So, how much are you overreacting to a just a simple sponge a guy that really is trying to figure out how to work his knee once he's come back from this injection. Yeah, and I would say like, I guess to it slightly his credit like they have been tough shot but like mostly because they see him sort of desperate like he's almost so many of these shots. It seems like he's just throwing himself towards the rim expect to get a foul and arrests and maybe Defenders just bought understanding is just a little bit easier to deal with camber right now cuz they're not falling for it. They're not following him and doesn't matter how hard can but throws himself on the on the ground afterwards like not getting the calls that seems to be a lot of it. I think she's not getting easy hoops at The Rim not that that's ever really the the game, but I think it really if you can just start consistently hitting a three-pointer. I think the rest will sort of take care of it. So yeah, I mean that's where you start. He's already taking probably like 50% of his shots or from three-point range anyway and have been for a couple years now and so he's at 33% for the year, you know that has to be better and I say again and we saw some of this on Thursday night where it's like, okay, but like we need to maybe think about how you were getting those shots and the pick-and-roll pull-up threes. Maybe we pull back on that a little bit and instead you become the catch-and-shoot guy with you know, when everyone collapses on Tatum and brown you're there for, you know, the clean look as opposed to having to dribble into a shot that gets contested from behind Faith. You know, that's just not a that's just not a good shot for you right now and maybe it will be in another month or two when you are getting your Rhythm back and you know, you feel better about what you can do if the Dead Now in this during the season, but for now, I mean from the the subjects of the team just don't have the margin for error right now where they can let chemical fifteen or Twenty shots night. If you're only going to hit Thirty 35% of those. Yeah, I think I said last year that maybe at some point kemba's ideal role is the Williamsburg next to Paul George and Qui, and I don't know I still think that maybe that's it. You know, you get you get your part of that may be coming off the bench. It's a different conversation may be I hope you're like that's going to happen this year. Like it's just they're going to cuz are you going to bench him? I mean, I think you worked rotation to where like they even do this. Last name is Jaylen Brown was coming off the bench. I guess the Pistons or was on the bench for last 3 minutes of the second quarter so they could stagger everyone like him and jaelon Tatum and Kemp obliging Or two of those guys were pretty much on the court all the time. So maybe you Sagar, but I think you can't from a respect standpoint for for like ten posts psyche. I don't think you can you can bring them off mention even if he yeah, and it's like this off again in terms of a psyche. I don't think it's one of those things where he just shows up with the the garden one day and and he's not not not up on the Jumbotron I think would have to be something you talked to him about you have to be okay with it. Maybe if am I putting a rush you're on camera not that it matters. But like if he's a team player that you know, he seems to be like I think if they made a compelling case maybe he would do it but who knows I agree maybe that that will be the very last resort and and in so many ways it gets it's hard to really judge last night because not going to be any games with me and Payton Pritchard combined for 12 3-pointers made unfortunate M16 attempts. That is unbelievable. That cures a lot of what was you? Yeah, that will exactly take a lot of pressure off the Kemba Walker's of the world and or honestly, if anyone you know of anyone on the team when you get that kind of of secondary production, but I mean when you look back, I guess the the the more the tougher balance right now if you're if you're Brad Stevens I feel like is Kambiz, defeat the defensive issues. I think are just more glaring than ever now too, which is there just every team that they're just attacking him. It seems every almost every time down the court right off the game of wears find find camber get the mismatch and go to work right? So when you look at those, you know, the the push-and-pull here, this is again, he had a similar situation with Gordon Hayward a couple of years ago. I was became a simpler Solution on that team cuz there was so much more Talent on that team to put in the that was deserving of starting over Hayward at that point. So when that was made it was like yeah, like that's it worked. But now I mean for for looking for crunch time and things like that in games where he doesn't have his have a lot going on offensively particularly, like what is the push and pull their of being like listen we need like defensively like you are an issue right now against a live opponent and so So if you're not bringing the the offensive upside that you would normally do like but we want you to get that back like where what's the balance for you there in terms of you know working in back in versus you know costing this team games defensively. Yeah, I don't think you can do that right respect is respect can but can be learned a lot of it. But like like you said if if he is not performing at all star-level offensively his defense makes it hard to justify him being out there regardless of who he is regardless of what his contract is this of, you know, how you watch maybe tiptoe around his ego and he doesn't have a huge ego. I'm not criticizing him on that level but like it's just hard, you know, and unless like you said, maybe we're not there yet. Maybe he deserves a little bit more time. He thought of a little more time to maybe find his feet offensively. Maybe I don't know if it's confidence in that. I don't know what it is, but maybe we're not there yet, but pretty soon Bret Stephens going to have some hard decisions to make Hopefully he won't but unless things changed. That's what he's up against right, especially when you look at you know, you have Jaylen Brown dealing with tendonitis at this point that you know Faith leaned on him and take him for really big minutes. They both of those guys. You couldn't you couldn't have asked really them to play much better in a best-case scenario so far this season and so I would imagine one or both of those guys are going to have a drop off at some point. And then your your margin of error goes down even more at that point. So it will be I mean that is again positive sign. I think a lot of it will be kambo kind of finding this shots that are easier for him within the offense like you don't have to you know, go went on three into the pain and I you know, you're not getting the respect from officials that you used to so maybe you adjust your shot selection from that standpoint, but again positive signs on Thursday night, you know, hope they're managing. Receive the back-to-backs. It will be obviously a pretty big story line for both this team this year and obviously for the long term in terms of you know, how much how quickly took out of it. If if at all sure yeah one more time probably a made a second Team all defense in the NBA. So it just like I understand like the the comparison a little bit from Danny but very different players who contribute in very different ways and I didn't hitting that shot is just you know, we're seeing it and calmly shot like 40% for the field and 37% from 3 last year. So it's like that was a quote-unquote down near. Yeah right hand but mine has the fastest and easiest way to better in all your Sports Action football might be over but MBA college basketball and the NHL are in full swing but unlike cover towards T shows and reality. I like how they separated TV shows in reality t v right reality T is not a TV show real-time updated odds and props on almost anything you can imagine bath. And has you covered for all the news scoresandodds? It's the best way to place your bets and it's free to sign up hence the website or use your mobile device to sign up today or 50% Welcome bonus on your first deposit down on your online Sportsbook experts. Don't sit on the sidelines anymore. Get in on the action. Don't forget to use that promo code. It is c l n s 52 receive a 50% Welcome bonus with your first approved it but online once again your online Sportsbook experts and one thing I mean, I think can appreciate a little bit that Peyton Pritchard is back in the next Bureau cuz I think game last night just every single time. This kid takes the floor doesn't matter. If it's first came back after what we all thought was maybe a a season-ending injury. He's back. He's helping the Celtics and let's quickly we were going to do a very quick podcast today. We're we're in between back-to-backs. We're just going to look at p p compared to some of the other rookies in the class just talked about his his what he means to this team right now. So you're any opening thoughts? Again, 6 or 8. I mean she showed me was was the real surprise last night when he had six 3-pointers in a game for Pritchard just seemed like more more of the same of what he's been doing. Yeah, I mean do you do you want to guess we're Pritchard ranks in the NBA in 3-point shooting right now rich percentage-wise or just rank. I mean, is he top 10? He's ninth. Wow, we're not talking. We're not talking Ricky's this is this is this is this is NBA among qualifiers. So that is yeah forty 6.9% from 3 after Thursday night's game. And so yeah, I mean that that's where you start right here like you and and ironically that's he's not the top rookie three point shooter. Can you guess who that is? I was I was looking earlier age as Halliburton Diya. I know so Halliburton is right below Richard 45% So he's eleventh in the NBA. Oh Desmond Bane Desmond Payne one-time Celtic doesn't 48. My mom used to like what's take a quick detour on that this I mean this this looks bad like just straight up like when you look at what this team could need Like Langford was out for the year Campbell was going to be out enough out for the first half kambo was going to be out and you made the bed being like Carson Edwards or Jake questions get go down a lot better since we yeah, it's like he has I agree. He's not he's not he's not but just when he's not shooting forty 8% from 3 on like four times per game as a six-foot-five guy off and that's all been does like he but he's averaging ten ten points a game for the Grizzlies. That's a guy that when you literally you trade him for a second-round picks because you had a log Jam like that doesn't look like a great BET right now. Now know and again, it's it's relatively early but you think about just what the Celtics need just the depth and the wings and and the shooting and and that's and again and and I and I I remember I wasn't one of them but I remember on on on Twitter, you know, when when when Bane was picked but under the assumption, he was already going to be traded. A lot of people were upset. They thought that he was a guy and so it's not like a total shock. It's not like one of those guys that came out of nowhere and oh you should have taken that guy know this is to do that was on people's radar who is doing what people imagine he might be able to do and the ambient just happens to be something that the Celtics need home. But yeah, that's tough. But let's let's go you don't feel as bad about it when you see what Pritchards doing, right? And what's funny is that being at Van another another four-year guy? Yeah, but for four years at TCU, so like he was he was very much in that mold shot forty six forty two and forty 4% from 3 is last three years at TCU. So again, not a surprise but God. In terms of what what printer is going to do moving forward like shit like a keep waiting for him to come back down to Earth but it's as long as he stays healthy. This is who he is, right? And so he you know, he had the two weeks off with the the sprained MCL and it's a game or two for him to kind of, you know, shake the cobwebs out or you know, but I think I'm now a week back into it. He's back and he's you you have this is a perfect example like the Raptors game on Thursday. It's like, okay, what do you need to do against a trial team is collapses on stars and play zone you need guys that can hit threes from like the corner or wherever and that's this is anticipating picture and not only juice doing this Rich. He's doing it while like holding his own defensively mean it's not a good Defender by did you see that one that one possession that forsberg tweeted a earliest. Yeah. That was that was like a dog I was like the clips taste to show about Draymond Green when he'd guard every player in one in one set. It was he just eat his nose where the be he even against siakam, right? So and and once one part of that wage that that play and everyone if you go through forsberg is Twitter, you can see it. He had siakam out on top beyond the three-point line and just just held his own and again, it was some great help too. But no matter where he is or who he's up against he knows exactly what to do. So let's look at the the reading class right now and figure out where where he ranks in here and let terms of like on the armv8 seems like he's he's definitely on it right now is having a first-team but the question is is like how like so I think we have some pretty safe choices for the first team in lamelo ball. Yeah, Tyrese Haliburton. Yep. I think honestly is probably the Rookie of the Year. Yeah, I think that's a pretty strong Roi right now Canada. Yeah, I mean level is going to be going to have the The Narrative I think is the most sexy Ur pic it'll be and and he's he could deserve it too but halliburton's awesome. Anyway, so keep going right you're right above them are I mean if any of those teams make the playoffs that came over here. Yeah good point. So yeah, and then beyond that like I mean Wiseman will obviously be honest to me gets back healthy. I think that's a safe zone no assessment just in terms of the kind numbers he can put up when he he is out there and he'll get that playing time and I think I think you know Edwards so he's at he's at Fourteen Points a game right now. If you can just give in the near the top overall pick and so he's you know, he's point forward behind lamelo and and points per game right now. I think if he if he stays in the top two dead. He probably gets it as well. But like, you know and and quickly is obviously playing really well for the NEX. And if you again if you can lead them to the playoffs he probably in the conversation, but I think it's going to be very hard to keep Richard off the second team. I mean, he's been what the V best player in the Celtics so far the 6th for the season when he's been healthy, is that so the so the Jay is dead. You might even in fifth might even like you could maybe make a case for that to be even higher. I mean I think liked ice is a pretty strong case to be in that top five just in terms of his shooting and everything else down to like Marcus Marcus even that like if you had to pick one, I mean like I mean smarts defense obviously is Head and Shoulders above Pritchard which may make up the offensive difference. But like the shooting splits. I mean don't like smart smart choice a pretty down here offensively with this shooting. I mean, this has been solid but you know preacher has been the far superior offensive player too smart the deer this year. No, I think that's fair. He's certainly been he's he's been one of the more like calming presence has of on the team. I said as a as a late first-round pick, I'm trying to see who is the boss asked. This could be very obvious that missing but you know who like to the last Celtic was to make a a rookie team and I'll rookie team member to see with Tatum. Oh, yeah. I mean that's gotta be I didn't know if it was off and then I'm sure gel emails again, right? Yeah, like I feel any Jalen probably didn't make it cuz he didn't play a ton his rookie year since remember he was like stuck behind Avery for a lot of the year and am also in Del City also wasn't ready. Right, right. Yeah, they're young. So what year was that? That would be That eliminates the jelly made second-team. Okay. Well you talking about the different courses that that NBA careers can take especially when you get to the second team. So the 2016/2017 second email Ricky Jamal Murray Brandon Ingram Jaylen Brown Marquese, Chriss and Yogi Ferrell home, but then but then the two guys that two guys that made the first team had a jail and and Mary Ann Ingram are sarich and Willy hernangomez. Yeah Malcolm Brogdon, everybody heals where the other ones these are. These are kind of interesting looking at these old rookie teams. Just Marcus made second-team over Ki ya know. He he played at unravel the gate in Kelly Olynyk wage. While they were playing the youngest back then yeah. Wow. So anyways, so we got we got a couple of minutes here. And if so, we have the the Pistons game in town tonight. And then the the the schedule after after getting through that that West Coast trip and we talked about it before it started that is going to be a murderer's row and I think all things considered the the Celtics came out. Okay. All right. Yeah, I remember you bring up. Can they get through this like 5 and 5 I would like this ten game stretch, which was the West Coast trip and then you know a few tough games before that and I wanted to dance I did and it was it was the second the second game against Philly is when it started they lost the lost the Philly Spurs Lakers sons and jazz beat the Clippers Warriors Bulls Cleve. I mean definitely, you know, the the the losses, you know that not very many impressive wins, but they got it done. They went five and five right? I can't go back and what I said I said that it would that if they went 5 and 5 there would be a win so they did it. So that's what went so bored Pistons Wizards two games against the Hawks Pelicans Mavericks dead. Another Hawks game opportune that now this next stretch now we're looking at like seven and three. Yeah, like this is where you have to start. If you want to have home court in the playoffs. You have to start making a right now like you can't walk and you can't go up and down and you have to take advantage of being home. And but now it's also the challenge of you know, Tatum and brown probably come back to earth a little bit smart still out Rob Williams now out that I'm worried about that by the way. Yeah. I mean this is this is how it seems to start with him and then you find out that it's a you know, he's had a really tough luck with these kind of injuries all year long and we're all his career. I should say. Yeah reoccurring hip injury for an athletic young big man is not good news know so but I honestly think that this might help Brad Stevens find the best best version of his team right now with the, you know, not having to play the double big out of necessity again in a lot of these games call log. You're where you're where your depth is. Yeah, but I have a hard time believing playing Tristan Thompson is what's best for this team right now. It's serious. I mean, can we can I trade him he yeah, he's going to be traded as of this week. So so keep an eye out and kick em that for a seller's episode. Sorry next week. So all right. Well, I'll do it for us for this week's edition will be back next week here on the Pod to home see what Kemba Walker and with the rest of this team. Looks like after a few games on friendlier Turf the meantime subscribe rate review us off the wedding playlist on iTunes or whatever you find a podcast get us up at winning Place pod on Twitter and we will talk to you all next week.

Kemba Walker Celtics NBA Tatum Jaylen Brown Isaiah Thomas Kemba Mike Conley kemba Brian Rob Levine Greg Sean Caitlin Brown kambo Mike Connelly Pistons jaelon Tatum
What should be Celtics panic level?

Winning Plays

41:01 min | Last month

What should be Celtics panic level?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the ceiling at the media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Hey there and welcome into another edition of the winning play is podcast. My name is Brian Rob joined by the one and only Brian bernardoni Rich Levine will be joining us a little bit later in the show, but it's been a while since we talked on the podcast for a couple of weeks here at the minimum and a lot has changed. The Celtics have lost fourteen of their last 21 games overall. They're currently in a three-way tie for the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference as of Thursday, and they also are below 500 530 games into the season for the first time since 2015 in the Brad Stevens era. There's been a lot of talking on the the radio Airwaves birth. Various members of the organization all the way from which prospective Danny S2 to Brad Stevens The Streak stay saying a lot of things that have been I think pretty clear-cut for a while things. We've that I think we've talked about for a while here on the podcast, but it's been now it's coming to I don't know. Do you do you view this as a worst case scenario for the team right now or more just of a reasonable expectation for this team heading into what was after underwhelming offseason stay at least Well first I just want to say that in my mind. They have one seven of the last 21 games because I am a glass 1/3 full not a glass two-thirds. Empty person. This is the positivity. Our that we're going to we're going to have here it's bad like you lose games and it's bad. We talked I think in the preseason about how it was likely that the entire league was going to sort of gravitate towards five hundred and that is mostly happened. There's a ridiculous number of teams that are grouped around there and some of those different teams have gotten there in just different ways, right the Celtics got off to a little bit of a good start and then it falling back to Earth and so it feels terrible. Now other teams the heat the Raptors started out terribly and have had a little bit of a hot play now some of it's a lot of it across the league is related to health sort of schedule and a lot of those things and I think that applies to the Celtics as well. So it's not like the sky is falling. I was more depressed two seasons ago as that whole thing melted down cuz I sort of was afraid of wears off. Headed and right now, I think there are ways that you can see the team to sort of pulling out of this and writing the ship it be nice. If you all star break was today instead of four more games to get there. Oh God, but you know, they're losing a lot of games. There was a lot of games against Bad teams are losing the games that you would have expected them to fatten up on because those the second half of the schedule is brutal now, it's real for everybody. Everybody will be playing every day. So it's not like they're rare situation probably worse than anybody else isn't anything like that. But yeah, it's a mess and there's I don't think there's a way to like pretend that it's not maybe I guess maybe riches more positive about things than I ever what I've heard. And so maybe he's a country and Tacos. He's going to come try to bring some pockets of the letter exactly. But for now, I know it's I guess the biggest change is what is the biggest concern to you right now in terms of I mean cuz I mean the dep thing is something for this team that is again like not a huge surprise since birth. We looked at where this team I think and I think it was even as a team started eight and three you looked at where you know, how are they're winning games and just the the pieces fitting and who is playing wing and things like that like this. This could be bad and now with one obviously one Serious injury DeMarco smart Romeo Langford not being ready to come back before the All-Star break from missing, you know, thirty-five plus games here. I think is it just simply the the fact that no one in The Supporting Cast is like stepped up or is it just other or do you look at other clubs down the line right now and say that no that's is a there might have be bigger issues up. Like I don't have as big of a concern about like the immediacy of the sort of depth and bench. I know that's what a lot of people focusing on and you certainly can about why they've been losing games, you know recently for me. There's the two biggest things are for the for this season. The sort of immediate is like Temple just looks bad. He looks really bad. He's not making shots and he's not getting to the room. He's not getting to the free-throw line. And he doesn't look like a player who is reliable going forward. So he's the players getting the most rest, right? They're building their entire sort of schedule when they're arresting him and he's going to get a ton of rest in the second half of the season, but all those games they have to play without him and when he does play he's not playing. Well, he makes a lot of money and he has two more years on his deal after this and he doesn't really fit into a world where Jalen and Jason are both playing on the ball more. I mean his number one skill is not setting up other people. It's creating, you know, self-creation off the dribble and he isn't a great defender. We know and he's going to get worse as he ages and so Kemba is my number one issue in terms of like the roster right now and what they need and what the constraints are around how they can fix it bigger picture. I have a concern that I have like a decent amount of faith in the front office is ability to like get all of the decisions, right because while I'm not super concerned about like that area Nesmith makes mistakes and that things like that, you know God I am concerned about the sort of bigger picture how we got from where we were a couple of years ago to here. And there's a lot of decisions that are going to have to come over the next, you know month here to get up to the trade deadline and then in the next office in about how they you know, resolve some of these other problems and so it's just a concern to have gone from like having immense faith that the front office will make all of the right decisions and then making those decisions for years. So having now two and a half three year run of like boy a lot of these issues have been poor and do you have faith that they're going to make the next out of this isn't there correct these things so those are my sort of one and two and they're related because they're related in part around how Kemba got here and the decision to go with, you know, not even into a sort of a different team, but that's really like we want to talk about the here and now my biggest concern is that Kemba Walker looks like you know backup point guard dog, not a max player starting point guard Corps of the the franchise, right? And that's the situation where It's hard to the team is currently going to just have to ride that out this year and hope that that changes at some point and where what fifteen twenty games into kembo here and Thursday. It's I guess the it's it's it's hard to tell for me right now. Just watching the team when you look at Kemba and clearly, you know, he's it seems most nights. He's entering a a different stage of his career. If you will, you know post maybe was here where he has to figure out how he fits in best around Tatum and brown and the shots that were good looks for him early in his career might not be the case anymore and that the team needing to adapt to that accordingly at the same time. It feels like the the onus on him is higher than ever in a lot of parts of the game since there isn't any really reliable craters on any other part of the roster right now, so not only is dead. We're seeing the camper drop off of the camber adjustment. Whatever. He eventually can bounce back into this year. I think it's being you know, it looks worse with the fact that the the the parts around them aren't able to to put him in better spots. I think that's a two-way street. He's not putting the parts around him in better spots. That's true. Then it's either right like they don't have anybody else other than smart who's obviously been out and and smarts not like a world-class, you know, great sort of operator running a team either but he's probably the best of what they have but they don't have anybody who's making it off on anybody else. So Jaylen and Jason I think have made real progress in that and they made major strides and I have problems with the way that they are catching some Flack from semi official sources right now about how there's sort of sticky and being said that they're not ball movers when like the biggest improvements that both of them have made over the last not just this season, but you know, and it's the end of last season the the bubble playoffs and then this season is as creators and playmaker wage. Both very young. This is something that they have to learn but they don't they just they are not great at that. Right? They're not great at setting up their teammates are not great at setting each other up and neither is Kemba all three guys right now want to create shots basically for themselves off the dribble or if they get stopped to kick it off to somebody else. And so there's just like a missing thing. They're of it's not there is a sort of structural problem. I think around the offense that they run of like it's kind of just sort of trouble handoffs and side to side and like it's not aggressive enough and it doesn't lead to the best shots all the time even under better circumstances, but then you're also adding in players who are perfectly happy to then settle for shots that are great as long as long as you know, it's they're the ones who are able to create them a number of times and like yeah, you get these nice passes where Jay Leno Jason hit somebody cross corner or something like that or can but it's a nice little, you know, something on the pick-and-roll but they're all relatively basic things and not in huge volume and just of the guys like Kemba Walker is the point guard and so if one of them and he's also 30, he's not twenty-two. So if one of them you would hope we'll be able to fill that role would be him. But until the e Comes around he doesn't have like space to operate it. Right? He can't he's not helping anybody off ball. He's not particularly helping anybody on Ball and he makes Thirty million dollars. Like it's just it's a major issue if now that might turn around. But again, how many games is he going to play in the rest of the season with the schedule the way it is like he's going to use anywhere what sixteen games in like is he going to play another 30 games this whole between health and rest and all that. Like, I don't know how many games we're going to get them out of them as a baseline And if the games you get out of them, are you shooting, you know, 50% true shooting and not creating anything for anybody else and also bad on defense. It's like God that's a it's just a total disaster if that's what what he is and that freaks me out. Yeah, and I love Kemba right? It's like you went to UConn. I love them. I said it before but It's it's something that obviously could haunt this franchise four years now, depending on where it goes from here and you look at other indicators for him right now in terms of like the the on-off stuff the it's all bad getting the free throw line less than ever assist rate career-long, right, you know true shooting lowest. It's been since he was in a Bobcat right? Like right. It's it's bad. It's will be turns it around wage is not here. Yes. I hope that it does turn out to be help in that with more rest and recovery and smart comes back and open some things. I don't know but at the moment I you just watch him and you're like, well, that's a 15-foot open jumper and I have no faith that he should be taking it because it's not a good shot right now. And when does that turn around? I'm not really sure. And I don't know if I mean Brad Stevens clearly wants to you know has as he should we'll have chemist back publicly wearing and knowing that this is a process for him. And you know, he's probably down at himself a little bit too much as it is. So unless you want to do is throw a guy that's trying to regain his rhythm like under the bus or anything like that song at the same time. Just the amount of the team is don't really trying to go to him and in clutch situations too with you know, the especially at the top of the key. I think he had a couple looks and losses in the last week in the last minute of games where it's a design play for him. And on the one hand I can see that being like, okay, you know, we have you sure we have your back here and we want you to be this guy again at the same time. Like I don't know if that's just a good idea at this point. Those are just not high percentage shots for him right now. I know there are limited options in the court, but that is something that's you know, well trying to boost him up. That's I think has hurt this team in the win-loss column and now created a point now where you go in a second thought you said when the the margin for error is just razor-thin until their trades to be made and who knows where that if and when those are going to come it was nice to see that at the end of the month. They went to Jalen because in terms of like who's on the team right now the most efficient volume score has been Jaylen now, he's been pretty bad and fourth quarters, which is part of the larger story of sort of what's happened with the team and how their fourth quarter of this has been absolutely miserable. Jason has been better and fourth quarters than than Jayla has buy a you know, a decent margin, but, you know even worse and fourth quarters has been anything else and so it's promising that they went to jail in there. I think he's deserving of that respect whatever you want to call it over canberra's right now and you just have to make those changes like dead. You force them they happen organically whatever there but you sort of have to force and if you wait for them to happen organically that it may just be too late. And so it was again it was good to see that in that that last play before doncic is crazy shot. It was a designed play to get Jalen, you know, basically the ball in a place where he was going to be the one to take the shot because you just can't give the ball to to Campbell and shooting off whenever he shooting from from 3 and not really being able to get by anybody and like I said, not really drawing any fouls and it's just uh, it's not so part of the issue here and I don't want to make this entirely about griping about wage because he's trying right like I'm not saying that he's not putting in the effort anything like that. But if you're to Star players are two away wings like a all offense on bulb point guard is not what you would want to be as the third player along with them. And so there's just like also a fit issue there. That's that's happening. And anyway, which probably move on to some other topic as opposed to just going to be dead. Cuz there's no shortage of other things that we can gripe about. Yes. So that's I mean this canvas situation I think is is going to be ongoing and I guess the pivot off of it off what what has changed about your you know, this season outlook in terms of what you want the team to do right now based on this uncertainty around kembo in terms of what should be the team's priorities in the next month. We know there's not going to be any major move before the All-Star break. They're going to try to get to the Finish Line with covid-19. You're not even get anyone in service for help, you know, by the time you they're clear clear to play until you that break but we've talked at length. Obviously. We throw names around for a while here. But now do you start to look at other scenarios or do you still say hey Tatum and brown are there? And even if Kemba is a show of himself like you still want to find pieces now for the for the long term around those guys if it's exception. Yeah, I mean, is a separate a separate issue here. I think from if you're talking about like trade exception and what you want what I want them to do as a front office and in terms of team building and that really hasn't changed at all and it's not because I want them to solve the team this year. It never really has been on edge between this year. Although I think if you have two All-Stars like you don't want to just burn Seasons particularly, you know, James on a second contract now like it's not that long before he becomes an unrestricted free agent or before you have to offer Jason Anderson or Jalen extension, right? Like these are things that are coming and you can think about it as being three years away, but it's like three playoffs away and three is not a lot right? Like if you burn one of those kind of burned one third again as we come back to being a third empty or full here, but so you can't just throw these things away. But the bigger thing is that they need to get more as many pieces as they can on the timeline of jail and Jason or at least closer to home. And you can talk about how you can you know, I know there was talk today on the radio and things like that about waiting until the offseason to try to use the trade exception because it will open up more options and all that and like I just don't understand how that's possible. I mean it's possible in that you could just get fortunate that that's how things play out. But like the primary thing here is that they need to get a player who fits with Jaylin and Jason and has more than this year on his contract and that means that they need to be willing to kick like actual real assets in order to get it because they it's they can't use it to do a sign-and-trade in the offseason like the pool of players who you can you can like legally get with it shrinks and see if there's a problem of there might not be any Sellers and like I don't really know what you do then but if the problem that you run into is that there's no Sellers and you can't improve the team then it's just further problematic of like, hey, we could have predicted ahead of time that the state that the seem to be super weird and it going to be a lot of five hundred teams and that the the trade market might lock up and you went down this route. Anyway, then like what does that say about the ability to like read the market wage? Will be really problematic in terms of what I want to do right now. Yeah, I want them to go and get someone who can play with Jaylin Jason for more than just this year because how are they going to get that play or otherwise? There's not a lot of options left in terms of like major team building other than taking the you know, whenever they're going to get this year the 18th pick and like nailing in drafting but you can't rely on that happening. Hey that could be down to 12 or 13 might be that the 1,000 be right. It's it's it's Free Falling. Your butt is a good time to bring in. Someone may be on the other side of the the aisle right now Rich Levine during the show. I don't either I don't agree with that introduction by the way. No, but Rich, we've we've talked a lot about kember already. We don't want to spend too much time on that but bring your effective in here. Like what what do you what do you seeing right now? What what does change if your outlook and you know, just about off of what Ryan hit on there in terms of What you want the team to do in the moment here as we as we inch towards the All-Star break. It's funny that to come in when I did because I had a list of few things to talk about a few of them are questions for Ryan while we while we're both home. I know we're only going to overlap for a few minutes here. But number one was I heard Danny and said that they might wait to use the tpe and I I wanted to ask you how like who is in that shrunken pool of players? Like let's just say something. So despite everyone assuming that they were going to make a somewhat significant deal this year. They do wait who is on the other side? Who could they be waiting for realistically? That's why I don't understand. That's why I can't figure out so you take all of the players who are available now and then you remove everybody who's expiring right? Because they can't again they can't do a sign-and-trade and so I don't want them to trade for an expiring player but like it's better than not using it at all. Right. It's better than a disappearing to at least somebody's bird rights or somebody's restricted free agency status or something like that. I think that's better than nothing. And so that pool just shrinks and like who is dead. Keene that's like we're not going to do this trade now, but we will do it next offseason like we have faith now and we're going to fall apart and then we're going to like panic and blow it up and trade it for life, you know trade a player for not really a whole lot down the line and maybe that happens right? Maybe you know Harrison Barnes they decide Sacramento decide they want to play out the season to make a playoff run and then in the offseason he becomes available to trade or anything part of the problem. There is that that player is just less valuable to you that point right because you threw away this season they didn't play in this playoffs and there's only so many years left on a these contracts basically everybody has, you know, three or four year contracts at the longest like nobody's trading anybody in the first year of a five-year deal. So you're getting maybe three runs if you get them now and then you wait until the offseason and then you're going to so that's less like they just aren't as important to the team. And so that's why part of it is like it also you are going to have to put an enormous strain on the players that you have right now if you're going to push for the playoffs Thursday, Insane schedule and just having another guy who can like real life able to play and use minutes is one good for the team now, but it's also like Risk mitigation. You don't want Jalen his need to give out because he's trying to place a five games every eight days. Like there's a little bit of that sort of like Ridiculousness. You're out of gas already. Who's that going to be? I don't know who that's going to be. What was that you're out of gas already like painting and brown on the fact of life that that's what you saw last night. It's like, okay what happens when these guys don't have it you lose the games over in the first half because no one else can score and I mean, yeah good galleries not going to go ten of 34 every night. But even that they they that's still a game. They, you know have no shot in and cables coming out for covid-19. Up in the the back end of the schedule because of the that week they took off now so they don't just need one guys. They need two or three guys to mitigate, you know, even when everyone gets healthy here just to to give them decent amount of damage so you don't run those guys into the ground but mine has the fastest and easiest way to better in all your Sports Action football might be over but MBA college basketball and the NHL are in full swing but online even life rewards T shows and TV real-time updated odds and props on almost anything. You can imagine BetOnline has you covered for all the news scoresandodds. It's the best way to place your bets and it's free to sign up to the website or use your mobile device to sign up today or 50% Welcome bonus on your first deposit, but online your online Sportsbook experts don't sit on the sidelines anymore. Get in on the action. Don't forget to use that promo code. It is c l n s 52 receive a 50% Welcome bonus with your first deposit, but online once again your online Sportsbook experts wage. And I'll say I I said this I think it was a earlier game against the Pacers and might even been a game with the Celtics one when you looked at the rosters. And you said okay pretty clearly you're going to want the Jays one and two but then it's a lot of paystub a players before you get to the next Celtics player getting drafted and you're seeing it more and more like like in the Pelicans game J&J and then even with Kemba out there. I think you're taking maybe three or four Pelicans before you going with the next Celtics player game. That's just basic, you know right now with Marcus hurt with the situation as it is they are just outmanned despite having two of the best players in the league to All Stars their roster does not stack up against a lot of the other team. It's the worst bench in the league. I think like maybe Minnesota but in reality right today for for what has happened over the last couple of weeks is that they don't they also don't have two of the best players in the league right now, like realistically, you know, Jason has shot his completely abandon him since he came back from covid-19 taking a ton of three. He's not making them and and Jalen's efficiency as sort of falling back to Earth. Pretty. Yep. Leslie here since he started having any problems. So like really top to bottom at least recently. The roster has not been good enough in general. I completely agree with the point that like you have these two young players and then not enough supporting around them. But like them they're losing games right now and getting blown out is be robbed. Like you said, you know, they show up into a game and if Jalen Jason are also exhausted or injured or whatever it might be and then they play poorly which has happened relatively frequently lately that like the whole thing like, oh, we're down by 30 like you just down by 30 in the third quarter and it's like, all right. Well, this is embarrassing game against the team that's not particularly good and that sort of what's happening right now. I worry less about that. Like I I do believe that Jayson Tatum is suddenly a 32% three-point shooter. I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that he had covid-19 some bad luck with shooting but like part of what is happening in the immediate. Is that as well? Did you guys mentioned? I don't want to get too deep it back in to, but was there any conversation of him in Prichard switching roles? No, not yet. I guess that's not going to happen. You consume it doesn't happen. But I think with the team be better. You can make the case for some nights for sure. Like who's I mean not not on a day-in-day-out but like there are certain situations where I think Prichard on select nights has found the better player this year than than can button and not just on the nights where he's been, you know, four or Twenty or whatever. It's not going to change. It may be a better fit alongside the new Js. I mean again, assuming that they do eventually recover and show more than just glimpses of what we saw like the first couple of weeks of the season if they can go back to to that consistently. I don't know I want and if Kemba might be better coming off the bench and being a guy that you can just shoot a little bit more without a conscious You know with the bench with the second unit. But maybe I mean Pritchard has come back down to her a little bit as well. He's not like shooting the lights out himself at this point and be Rob and I were talking a little bit about the need for just like somebody who can actually set up teammates and he can do them a bit. But even though isn't great at that. I don't know if Bridget particularly any better at that, but yeah, I mean you can come but coming off the bench is something that I think is a little bit more alluring than it would actually be in a because he's going to come off the bench and it's not going to be like a five-man line. That's what she's still going to be playing with one of Jalen or Jason and we've seen those lineups where it's one of them with the camera have also been pretty garbage but like a lot of it just comes down to Thursday. We're coming off the bench he needs to just like the ball needs to go in and if it doesn't then he's going to be bad and if it does then he'll be better and so I don't know if you know if you put him on the bench and that turns him back into a 40% three-point shooter get to the free-throw line then wonderful, if you put into the bench and he's playing the exact same level. He is now like you're just going to get wiped out in those bench minutes instead. It's a great analysis and I'm bringing are played better will make better results. Well that they can but Tristan Thompson pick-and-roll chemistry has been really good all year. So that's like something to they could be moved. Now. They're aesthetically grocer player and recent Celtics memory then Tristan Thompson, even when he does things right? It's so unfortunate to watch C ROM. Hey last night there was a play at the end of last game where I was just laughing about it. It was like Tegan Thompson ran a pick-and-roll. It went nowhere Thompson got the the offensive rebound had Jalen and Jason white box at the three-point line tried to pump fake and get a hook shot. Couldn't dribbled out past it back to Teague and then they turned it over. It was just like how on Earth did that like Thompson never pass wage all out when he gets these office remote. It's crazy. It's insane so much. It's really ugly to watch I agree. But if you're looking for a player who is even less fun to watch it might be Jeff Teague. I hope that that was the last time we saw him and in big minutes last night, but there's nowhere back-to-backs for the All-Star break and but we'll see how long that he sticks around here as we head to the second half of the season. I don't know. He was also the best offensive player. Let's I know which is like a chance to talk. I watch that happen in real time. I thought was Javonte so did I he assumed it was Javonte and then I was like you're not on the floor was that wage? So horrible. Do you guys think though like when we get into next month? What like how much action are we actually going to see cuz you know, we're talking obviously about you know, one big guy, you know, you clearly want the the long-term fit next Thursday is like like Ryan's referenced but as far as just the rest of the roster though, like if if this season is a priority at all in terms of just being competitive and you know ensuring that you're young you're not in a playing situation for the playoffs then you probably need to clear out three or four bodies at the end of this roster. Am I is that is that too much of a a sweet ass time talking about here or is a realistically is that something that could be in play? We're not we're not just like let me just say I would much rather miss the playoffs altogether than being a plane situation. I'm sure they would do in terms of a draft pick for that would be unbelievably depressing to watch the Celtics in a plane against the the Bulls. The only thing is we might go through the plane and then beat the Seventy Sixers in the first round and it's true if you get the right match up there and they're healthy wage then that would be an enemy. Imagine if we went play in Nets. Oh my God, that would be depressing cuz we would lose that if we went play in Bucks, we would lose that if we were playing seventy-sixers we might win that and that would be at least fun. But yeah, this is all miserable to talk about type of the next it's good times. Okay. So real quick who are the big names that I don't know if you guys touched in the chef that can still be swung for this year rusovich. I know you do not have porzingis on your list Ryan, right? He doesn't fit in the tpe for one thing. But also he's always hurt and all the other problems dead. Would you do Kim before a person is? Yes, I think so my gosh. I mean you're not right but then I mean it's funny cuz like the knobs are one of the few teams that you can look at and be like maybe in the off-season if they strike out on they have all held all this cap space open try to get Jonas or summer fishing assuming Kauai just goes back to the Clippers. You would wonder if like would they be willing to take a chance on campus? They've had such a great luck with tiny scoring point guards down the years now, they didn't make Thirty million dollars but life, you know, maybe that he would go there and they would just sort of take him if you were trying to dump him. But yeah, would you when I trade him for person cuz yeah, I mean you have to just in part again because of age like pursuing this as a benefit age-wise with the channel and Jason cute Red Pearl Horford. No, no, I would not Can't do that. I mean it causes problems if you're talking about in the TP if you're talking about for Kemba probably again, because you get to remove campus contract and Records is at least only partially guaranteed in the last year in terms of taking it to TP. I don't think that that's workable in terms of next year's contracts. It's sad that okay see is if it's probably the most realistic destination for kembo and like not not now, but like if if you can't get out of this is it's going to be a matter of like money. What did this others have to attach to him? See? I don't think they can I don't think there's a destination where they can move them too because they don't have be like asset Trove anymore. Unless one of Romeo or Nesmith or something like that like has a really big break out in the second half of the year and a decent playoffs that they can't burn assets on dumping guys because then they don't have any assets to use to add guys like if you give birth to a draft pick and whatever to get rid of him, but like that's the draft pick in whatever that you need to get a real player. I'll give that giving these myths and love he's been fun to watch the last couple of games don't know why he was supposed to begin with right. I mean that that's kind of the crate if there's anything we haven't talked much on Brad and I don't mean he's this has been probably his Worst season coach You're close to it, but I don't I put more of the faults in terms of in terms of the brass construction. You guys had very little work with but him, you know languishing, you know keeping me Smith walk away from consistent minutes until the last two weeks while throwing Wing, you know, Grant Williams Garden opposing wings like that as just not I don't get why that way that took so long unless it was the time that that he waited and got him to to adjust the NBA that made it possible for him to now be a somewhat consistent member of the rotation package. That's what we never know. There's no practice and there's no G League like what is just watching watching the film better player. I don't know and and they do practice to a certain extent. I don't know if they have official practices, but I've heard that when they land and when they when they land in every city, I've heard that they go right to the to a gym and do like a little impromptu practice, but they've that's been one of their routines. I don't know if it's been lately. Maybe when if Jason has a dog Doing well, but they have been running those a little bit. I don't know that does not feel like the sort of thing that turns you from a complete zero into a player who is the first off the bench, but we can't run if we can't run the history back. So maybe it is I don't know. Yeah, I mean there's there's a key thing obviously around the double bags and around they need to somehow for some reason you have to play double big Xander to make minutes for Robert Williams when it's like there's an obvious solution to that which is that you just don't play Tristan Thompson. And like I said, I get that he would be unhappy and that they just signed him but every team in the league at some point has veterans who are unhappy about their role and it's like why is it have to be that the veterans have to be happy about their roles and not Grant Williams or Erin nice month or Robert Williams when like those guys more likely have a future with the team. Like I don't really care if Tristan Thompson isn't happy with the fact that he's getting paid that amount of money to not play very well. He's played lately no doubt, but like the way that you should decide who's playing in those minutes is based on who makes the team play the best and they haven't really done that very often this year wage. Now Jeff Teague getting DMP I think is sorry. My cat is freaking out in the background. I think Jeff Teague getting damp eat is like a step in the right direction on that front, but they're still running off like kind of double big garbage and Robert Williams, you know plays 14 minutes a night or 21 minutes a night including all over time like it's whatever and they should think Grant Williams gets the emptied all the time. Like he hasn't played. I imagine it's difficult to play. Well when your get your role changed in your minutes change like every game and you just randomly get thrown into weird such, you know, weird circumstances. I don't think this has been Brad's Worst season because two years ago happened and that was like the worst coach. Yeah, I mean, but you know, like it hasn't been like Banner stuff. Hopefully it turns around, you know, Erik Spoelstra was looking like he was having a pretty terrible season and Nick nurse looked like a pretty terrible season at one point in the year and now their teams seem like they're on the right track again, so it's certainly can turn around but it would be nice for it to turn around pretty soon. Oh gee dreams have dispatch. Gone now the selfie I'm I've been saying now the Raptor should be calling about Jaylen Brown flip that around. I mean, that's how it works. It's it's really tough to tell who is going to turn into a Cellar. Just looking everywhere across the both conferences given how tight I mean Minnesota's the the only object spot and there's just nothing of real interest there that they're going to move you'd think and so it is a waiting game and that does not bode. Well for what the Celtics need right now, I guess they'll have you know, yo smart and length for it. Should I assume be ready right out of the brake? If it's not then that's a pretty big red flag. I think in terms of what you can be home for them. But even that like even Lankford like what can you for a guy who hasn't played basketball in like what now six months like one pass get a great choice as to eat in the first quarter of game three or four whatever but it's there's going to be a lot acid him or hopes of him right away and And I don't know it's it's it's a tough spot to put him and given what he's gone through from a physical standpoint. What do you guys give for Collins? John. Jason Karen. Yeah, the Jason Jaren package, but what do you get for John Collins? Not as much as it would take to get him. Really. I think the answer to that the problem is they can't pay it right unless you move Kimba unless you salaried MBA which is going to cost you more. Yeah. I mean they're going to do that anyway, but If he moves I just don't think it will be to the Celtics now if he moves and it's not to the Celtics, I think there will be like an uproar unless the Celtics have done some don't do anything and John Collins moves and land somewhere else. Like people are going to change their minds people are going to lose their minds no matter what let's be honest me at least The Royal Way, well, I'm I'm making a specialty to lose my mind on the internet on a semi monthly basis at this point. It's what the internet is for and it's Sports and I'm allowed to get mad if things growing back right? Let's let's in on this. So what's what's what's the one bright spot for everyone so far through these first thirty two games and Beyond just the way the All-Star honors for the for the GSR. What is what's something that conceivably once so just get back to full strength here in another couple of weeks and I have their full, players who who or what is conceivably going to go well down the stretch here or what you're looking forward to when they get back to a normal rule home. No not all ones. I wish that was I gotta drop off. So I guess I'll go first. It's not a lot of this was predictable I guess is the right spot the fact that there around five hundred jobs. Is a million teams around 500 that they've struggled with injuries that somebody got covid-19 schedule has been weird is all relatively predictable. Even if I freaked out about it. So I think that the right spot is that if that was predictable then the other thing that we thought would happen which is when the team does get healthy and if they can make a move for a trade they should actually end up being quite good by the end. And so if we predicted the first half and we had a prediction for the second half and the the prediction was right then maybe the second half prediction will be right as well and things will actually turn around once they get healthy and if they can make a move so I think that's the right spot. I think that's beautiful. Yeah, I agree. I know I think coming into if you listen to our our podcast from being of the Season we were having conversation about whether the Celtics would even have home court. So we expected them to maybe not be in the top tier of these reference. What do we say need to happen? If they were going to do that? They need to stay healthy, whether it was Marcus and then it can be to come back and a healthy old school Campbell way. You needed them to go out and add a player because you lost Gordon Hayward. I'm sorry, you didn't replace him. So those are things that need to happen. None of that has happened yet. So it's no surprise that they are with where they are. But again, like you said Ryan like there's still time for that to happen. There's time, I guess 4, 2 to start hitting his shots. If it's that easy. There's time to make a move, you know, Marcus Smart. Hopefully, we'll be back at some point and we'll stick around through the play-offs. But yeah, I guess I'm going to agree with you. For me, it's just simply everyone in the East stinks outside of the the six years and the Nets. It seems like even the mean the Bucks. I guess you can you can lump in my shop three bucks a good but they still there. They've got their own issues. They've lost a lost getting five and really or recently and their defense has had a huge drop off from last year to displayed some wage and if your holiday so yeah like you you've had a nightmare start here and you're still one game out of the four-seat. So for for as bad as it looks it's still very much Faith ball with some good health and some some Savvy maneuvering on the editor or bigger piece if that becomes available here. So the the A and three start created them a little bit of margin for error that margin of error is gone. But luckily the rest of the Eastern Conference has provided the necessary margin of area around you right now. The problem is you can't they just need to start off. Well, or else I'm going to keep Free Falling. That's and then again at what point does this season not become not a priority, right? And you have a you have a couple more weeks to evaluate that and as Brad Stevens said last night. I lost the next four games are going to be pretty important for the season-ending any All-Star break since if you show some fight there maybe you you convince the front office to mm what they need to help you more in the present. If not, then they probably look strictly big picture for the rest of the season and that turns this team issue. Probably a first run out. Well that was positive. It's all that silver lining the super that they're all right give you can follow us on Twitter at winning play Spotify. Give us all your feedback their rate review, um hit a Brian at danger card at a bridge at Rich underscore Lovin. I'm at Bryant is Rob and Blac. Yep, the fight back starts on Friday night, and we will we'll be back next week to see if these guys get off the map.

Kemba Brad Stevens Celtics Jalen Jason kembo Tristan Thompson Kemba Walker Brian Rob Brian bernardoni Rich Levine Danny S Romeo Langford Jaylen Tatum Jayla doncic Nesmith Javonte
Celtics Win Decisive Game 5 | Tom Brady's Bad Attitude

Boston Sports Beat

10:41 min | 7 months ago

Celtics Win Decisive Game 5 | Tom Brady's Bad Attitude

"All right, welcome into the Boston Sports beat presented by bet u s and we're going to get right into it with Brian robbed of the Boston Sports journal and Brian the Celtics another massive momentum shift and swing in the series up to. Oh lose game three of the way that they did play horribly in game four looks like the Raptor everything going in their favor and then boom absolutely Toronto absolutely lays an egg in game five and you have to credit the Celtics because they came out and they clearly wanted it more after the game all of the talk about energy and effort and and know there was sorely lacking in game for so probably just your thoughts on what went right for the Celtics and how they were able to win so convincingly so easily Well, you can see where Brad Stevens head was at even before game five. I asked him and his pre and press conference about you know, how do you get the Celtics starting 5 the offense back on track and his first name starts talking about the defense immediately with the question about the offense, right? So that tells you where the teams had was that going in and I think the everyone was really locked in kind of woke up after that game for I think it started off with a shift of putting the best defender in the Celtics Marcus Smart on the biggest weapon. The Raptors had and Kyle Lowry Lowry had been the engine to Toronto and games three and four averaging over 16 shots a game 26 points in that stretch and was screened for himself and others and the Celtics made of priority of saying okay, we're going to take him away with smart and good help defense around him. And with everyone else walked in EM drown just didn't have an answer. Yeah, and it makes a difference that's exactly the kind of guy that smart excels against, you know, not as good defensively one-on-one with those really quick guards that he has to stay in front of but certainly wage Physicality there. I mean the fact that Lowery really was was only able to attempt eight shots after clearly being the Cog that that fueled them to those two wins was amazing. Another a remarkable thing about game for was again this the the the continued disappearance of Pascal siakam who clearly had his best game of the series and one of his better games in the bubble in game four, and absolutely she was nowhere to be found in in in in game five and just shockingly after the game Nick nurse had this to say about about CEO comes just struggles in the bubble bath. I'm not sure why he's been so out of rhythm since the restart in the bubble here. He hasn't had a lot of great games. And I think that's more of an other than other than here. We are in the play-offs and he's he's he's supposed to be our leading guy and just not sure he's been in great Rhythm since the restart bad cuz he was spectacular and last year's playoffs and he was spectacular all season long. So we still got some games to play. Hopefully he can get his get his rhythm. So that was a really surprising comment there. I just didn't expect nurse to call out a player in his best player in that fashion. Clearly. There's something up here and clearly they know it to be from 4 nurse to say that publicly wage. They're they're disappointed in what they're getting out of siakam. And so it's not just us wondering. Hey what's going on? There's definitely something here where she outcomes just not right? No and this team can offer is not going to go anywhere without him figuring that out and he's running short on time here. I'm not completely shocked by the so she talked him since if you looked into his postseason numbers John over the course of his career like they even pretty lackluster wage. You know, he hasn't been on a level of Tatum in a brown in the postseason and now with Kawhi Leonard out of the picture here the the focus goes on him that much more for opposing defenses and he just hasn't found out any kind of a rhythm there. So I don't know where you go because you're not going to you know, Marcus always been a no-show in this series as well Serge Ibaka's got a sprained ankle now, so we don't even know if he's going to play in game six months. So it's really siakam or bust right now and you don't like the chances there when you listen to nurse and that's the thing is you look at it Toronto since the Celtics transition defense has been as good as it's been you really need guys like Lowry command van Fleet to get it going offensively in the half-court offense. And when those guys only attempt 17 shots between the two of them and Van Fleet had another off shooting night. There's almost no way for Toronto to be able to generate enough off just getting to a hundred points for them is a struggle. It seems in this series. Now, you mentioned the bigs casals been a complete no show for a couple of games pretty much the whole series and and and as you said it Bob Less effective in game five, so he's dealing with something but it really was this was a Daniel theis game and it's interesting too and I know you wrote about it and this isn't a to poke at it, but there were a lot of people clamoring for Williams to play more because the numbers certainly offensively when they were on the floor when he was on the floor were were much better. So a lot of people felt like that was the right play but strong for the most part stuck with Tyson defensively, he was unbelievable and offensively he had an extremely efficient game. So I mean if smart was you know, if you look at Brown certainly the offensive guys smart shutting down Lowry but theis might have been the unsung hero of game five. Oh, there's no question. I think that was just watching that that might have been the best have a defense taste display in the Celtics uniforms unbelievable. That's it was I mean between the switching on Tulare and other small guards and the help defense contesting everything exactly so you look at that and we hadn't seen much of that have Titus this postseason berth. It's huge for the seller cuz that guy is what we saw during most of the regular season and how this team, you know surpassed expectations to be a top-five defense here after you know losing out Horford. So with this place like that going forward then it's going to be hard for any team to beat the Celtics much less disruptive scene and to that point you never like to see too much Jekyll and Hyde in the play-offs, but you do understand in these series. You're not going to play You're a game every single night. But now we've seen two games in this series where the Celtics looked like a potential championship team after game 5 months. What are your thoughts on that matter? Yeah. I mean that's that's the defense of a contender for sure and you look around the league right now and there's no one who's playing football as fast for right. Now. Neither wage rates by the Celtics have gotten close to their best in probably more games than anyone else in this postseason so far. So you look at that you look at the road. They could conceivably have ahead of them in the Eastern conflict. With no Ian is not having to go plan another team so important to even get to the NBA finals. So it's a pretty opportunity big opportunity to have here and you know, but they still have to take care of business obviously in either of six or seven here. Okay, and then you never know. There's always the promise of Gordon Hayward. It's kind of it's out there. It's dangling you never know but it's possible possible. You could see him in the next series and if that happens, obviously that changes things again in the Celtics favor, so game six, of course on Wednesday Wednesday night. So Celtics could wrap it up there and could be headed to their third Conference Finals game last four years. So Brian Rob, thanks for joining us. Listen up Sports Bettors. I want to tell you about our exclusive sponsor, which is BET u s big weekend for sports betting obviously with NFL football getting away this week as well as hockey playoffs basketball playoffs and baseball in full swing now bet us of course is the Pioneer in online betting with twenty-five years in the biz. It's a sports book with Integrity lounging. And you know that you are going to get paid it has everything you could ask for including live betting MMA golf horses e-sports entertainment and all kinds of crazy prop bets and Futures. Now. How do you get involved? All you have to do is call one 807-9879 walk you through getting started. Make sure to mention the Boston Sports Journal sent you and you can get to 150% in bonuses on your first deposit. Once again, that's one eight hundred seven hundred or go to bed and tell them Boston Sports Journal send new Patriots Dolphins this Sunday Cam Newton's Patriots debut, but we're still talking about Tom Brady who's not here anymore. Largely because of something Greg Bedard wrote on Boston Sports Journal Greg talked about the final days and final years for Brady in Foxboro and how his dour mood may have really impacted the locker room and some people weren't actually too sad to see him go Craig Road on bsj that the vibe in the locker room was really poor dog. And that there were certainly a few players who admitted privately that it's probably best for everybody Brady and the Patriots if he moved on Greg talked about this report on the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick came from after the season through when he went to Tampa and I was hearing some of the stuff even before he went to Tampa. I was told by a couple of players plus some people around the team that they were just like, you know, what if what went down last year and really this started towards the tail end of 2018. Yes, they went on to win the Super Bowl but Brady was ticked off about the direction of the offense also was lack of weapons then they just, you know, they just happened to play. Well the same sort of thing happened this year was worse from the get-go off and you know, because of the lack of weapons, and we've talked about this before that. He didn't have anybody to throw two and you know, they were going to be a run-first team. He was just he was just not happy and dead. Bill and him were grinding on each other, you know, you could see the the the on ramp to his departure starting last year and so really behind the scenes the players felt this like we saw it on the sidelines and a couple of games namely the Texans game. Yeah, but the players saw a lot of this the whole time and really am surprised and it was you know, some players who have a lot of cash a they were just like look if it was going to be the same way again, cuz they had seen it in 2018. They went through it all year and 2019 if I thought he was going to come back and just have the same attitude and look I'm not I'm not saying he shouldn't have had that attitude. I'd be pissed off if I was in my twentieth year won six Super Bowls and I can't get anybody to throw to a title and you know when they should be surrounding me and helping me out with more Talent around me and they were just like look if if Thomas just going to come back and and was going to be the same thing again, we don't want to go through that dog. Better off that he leaves and we can start fresh cuz not all of us are done yet in our careers or getting to the end. So let's just everybody move on. Everybody will be better off.

Celtics Toronto Boston Sports journal Kyle Lowry Lowry Brian Rob Boston Brad Stevens Lowery Tom Brady Raptors Nick Greg Bedard Van Fleet Toronto Pascal siakam siakam Serge Ibaka Kawhi Leonard Gordon Hayward van Fleet
Aaron Gordon trade scenarios and other potential Celtics targets

Winning Plays

43:20 min | 3 weeks ago

Aaron Gordon trade scenarios and other potential Celtics targets

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest French. It's trade deadline week here on the winning Place podcast wage. We are counting down two days left till the March 25th trade deadline. My name is Brian Rob joined by frequent guest host of the Ring play Spot Brian bernardoni wage to get into some of the nitty-gritty here of the rumors swirling around the one and only Aaron Gordon and Ryan. This is something I want to say you wrote was this almost a year and half or two years ago. You originally wrote on Aaron Gordon as a concealable trade Target back in was it was that 2019 or was that 2020? Oh, yeah, boy, I don't know that was a while ago. He's been a conceivable trade Target for a while. He sort of the conceivable trade Target for you know for for what the team most likely needs, um around the other players that they have but that was like three formulations of the team ago. I also write about him being a trade Target last year for you know, if they had wanted to trade Gordon Hayward before we left wrote about em in the preseason as a potential trade Target. Once they once a word had been moved and creating the TP. I'm not alone in that right? Yeah. He's our than out there for a while. I guess the entire league he's off on the contract that has been a conceivable. Hey, that's a guy. Not making too much money. Probably not in the right situation for him. And on a team that doesn't seem to be going anywhere and now after those two or three years. I don't really enjoy your senses. This nothing has happened yet, but it seems there is the most amount of smoke coming around in from from multiple ports all over the place that the Celtics are in the mix of life, you know some other prominent teams here and so let's start here. I guess. My standpoint is the we don't need to really go into why Gordon makes sense for some things we've talked about that plenty before the other parts conceivable parts of a deal fascinating here since the Celtics could simply do a straight-up deal for him for pretty much draft Capital take Born Into the team player accepted a part of it and then make some moves around the edges to make sure they avoid the tax for the season which I think we both agree is a is a a primary goal for for this group home. How they played this year, but now we're hearing Evan Fournier again involves, which asks another potentially Marcus Smart getting involved here. What what do you make of this Ryan? And I know you had a 1018 in the deal that is as picking up steam here and like why would that make sense for the Seas if you can take us through that one? So I think that the poor play is part of the explanation for what's going on and why they might be looking to expand the team which is a rather simple idea of just like if your team isn't playing the way that you expected it to then you make changes to it and the sort of idea of like adding Aaron Gordon for half the tpe and moving somebody else to stay under the tax and using a couple of draft picks on that makes a lot more sense. If you're like the three years old and playing really well when you're thinking okay, we're getting back to health and we're all coming together and we think we can make a run at it and and all that and if you're in a situation where that's not what you're looking at then some of the other things of thought of amount of like preserving flexibility and contract stuff and moving out some players who are part of your core who maybe just aren't working out or not developing in the way that you want them to becomes sort of more palatable right not giving up something on this season. You're sort of saying like Okay, we want to retool for the future so that this season doesn't happen again next season and I think that's the simplest explanation for it. So if you look at some of those formulations this or dead, Most straightforward one of sort of putting together two or three different peoples rumors. Like you said, it's like, okay you're bringing in Evan Fournier and Marcus Smart is going out and they're going to going to be pics involved in like the math doesn't quite work for that cuz they're hard Captain cuz they want to get a tax. So it's like what do you do from there? Okay, you send out Tristan Thompson and some other money like I can explain all the math behind the exact fake trade that I put out there like nobody right? I mean, it's one fake app, you can make other ones and other people can try to come up with how they want. But I think that's sort of what's happening is they're saying like, well, what if we can bring in Aaron Gordon and he's what we're going to have going forward and we're going to do some things that clear cap space and open up some flexibility for us to make you know, additional swings in the future cuz we don't simply don't like the team that we have now is that's my best guess at it. But like I don't right. I mean, I don't I don't know how long exactly it makes sense like in the logistically it makes sense. I wonder again I mean with with someone like Fournier Who is on an expiring deal making a good sixteen Seventeen million dollars? I think it's all quite as a great off. He can be a great offensive player on certain nights. You can get to the page. You can shoot the three. He does a lot of the things that the subjects could clearly use reliably Off the Bench. The question is from from my standpoint. If okay if you're going to I think just other issues that you had dropped because if you're going to if you're giving up a a year of smart of cost control and you're only getting forty out of it, yes, you can get some off the flexibility talked about for the future maintaining the full trade player exception. Well, well making a couple of additions that matter in Gordon for me about that would all be big here, but I do think if you sure you're giving up some serious draft capital for for Gordon anyway adding in I would be very lucky to add in a core player if unless like smart home. What you're getting more, you know cost control down the line and that's something you're not really getting before you if you like. Yeah, I think that there is a big missing piece here, which is like what are the pigs exactly? What are the protections because you're two picks two first-round picks you you know, you just sort of jump and say, okay. Well, so what does that mean the Celtics revamp these assume two first-round picks and it could be that there is additional parts off moving around in their sourcing another pick from another team or that they're getting a pic from somewhere else to keep for themselves. Right? Like there's other ways that that could play out it also there's a big difference between we're trading this year's day. Something protected top 10 protected and if it's not it immediately turns into two second-round picks and then we're trading a pick two seasons from now to you know, be legal and the same thing top 10 protected. If it doesn't convey that out first year it turns into two second-round picks. And so you aren't like encumbering your draft Capital out into the like indefinite years. That's a big difference. And if you're saying okay this year is lottery-protected and next year. It's top 10 per month. The year after that it stopped for protected and then you get another pick two years after that and it's the same thing and like you basically just in some ways tied up potentially tied up your draft Capital like way into the future and that limit of things you can do. And so if you do that if you were to be trading, you know trading pics in a way that locks you up into the future then some of the flexibility that you would potentially be creating out of this deal doesn't make like maybe it doesn't have as much value anymore because what are you going to do with it? Like, how are you going to get anybody? But if what you've done is you basically traded one year of a pic and it's like your 2023 pick because this year you just sort of saying like well this year it's it's almost done. We're going to trade that pick soon a 2023 pick will be gone and then we could still trade, you know, twenty twenty-five and twenty-seven and we could have fixed pops and we could do all this we could still do stuff that flexibility is then just sort of inherently more valuable way just don't know anything about that. Like there have been no real reports on that and stuff on protections never comes out and like after the trade is done. It's just two first-round picks whatever and then the trade, you know a couple hours later you get the information on the exactly what time? Parameters are in that shapes a lot of your sort of feelings about what the trade is and so it's really hard to sort of make that assessment without that that major piece of the information age. You can move around these pieces. You can include third teams. You can have a first-round pick somewhere along the line becomes 2 seconds, right? Like it's just hard to to know exactly what some of these things mean. You can't go through. You can't go through all those are you taking forever, but you're right. They're all these deals. There's you hear what's out there and then it becomes something different for those service based on those protections. But like you said those options matter because if you're looking for long-term flexibility, this is where if you're putting a lot of protections and that's when things can get really complicated down the road if unless you have teams that are going to work if you on those Yeah, and that's I mean I've I think we've talked about this before I talk about with other people like part of the line that I've sort of said that you want to draw in the sand was if you're just using the tpe and you're just sort of getting one player. Can you get that player for a young player and a pick or a young player in a pick and a second and and as you open up this trade like are you using future picks basically to dump salary in this is where you get off if you really expand out the street and you like are you using a pic here to get rid of Tristan Thompson and Carson Edwards because you don't actually want to keep Evan Fournier right? Like John Hollinger put something out in terms of cap questions on the athletic about it who were saying like, maybe you'd want to extend Evan Fournier and I'm like, I think that would make it worse. It would at least give some Vision to what you were trying to achieve here. Right? If if that would answer some amount. Of course, if you don't like the answer that's being provided. It's possible that they would be doing all this largely. Like Hey, we're using these pics to clear salary. We're buying space. We're buying time because I mean, we've been sort of talking around this for four months now but like at this point Kemba is like a major negative asset and read that's I think like in to your point of like that I think those pics if you're going to move those pics, you gotta find a way to get him involved. Like if you're going to move to First your own pics again, and especially if that's involved too. If you're getting rid of that like you're you're kind of tiptoeing around the problem here. What's your point is is Kemba smarts involved. Does that make any sense for, to be involved as well? Like it would be Ken Bode be involved in terms of smart. I think structurally it gets very difficult to like to include both in a way that would make any sense for the Celtics. Like they would just be giving up a lot of stuff for a way that doesn't necessarily create a lot of benefits. But yeah, I mean I agree, but I guess that's what I'm getting at is like you you want to say you'd have to include Kemba in this but if you can't if you just can't it's not viable then buying yourself some amount of time. Basically to say like Monday. We are going to set up our next team and so we can expend some Capital now to sort of a line contract so that we want and get a little bit younger and we're going to put together a different vision of the team next year. And then at that point Campbell will be an expired because we assume he'll opt-in and then you can sort of get out of it without having to to spend all this Capital getting like literally nothing back. It's it's difficult. The reality is that like Kemba as he's playing now is a worst offensive player than Evan Fournier and like I'm not wild about that before he coming in but like it just is true and I 40 days I assume better defensive player as well. Like he's it's so if that's the level of money that comes out he's making thirty four million dollars and thirty six million dollars down the line and thirty-eight million dollars at the end or whatever is that's just like really limiting on what you can do. And so there is at least some dead. Reasonable argument that you could make for being like you need to move out some Assets Now the problem is what you're doing is that Aragorn's contract expires at the same time as Marcus Smart's does and so how much time are you really buying by life moving Tristan Thompson and and not re-signing for any like it's sort of questionable. There would be a lot of work to be done. Like in this next coming offseason to give some vision for where the team is going wage. Um, that may be the case anyway, but I don't I can't make like a great case for these for this like not sure what but like I can make a case for but it's not like one that I love or think is like amazing. But if you're a game under five hundred and you thought you were might maybe to be a contender and people are unhappy and you're you know looking at a big tax bill coming down the line a couple of years and all that and like you can it's not a great spot to be in so like the trades a you looking to make aren't going to be ones that everybody loves. Right, and that's I guess when I mean like I talked to Danny Ainge a little bit about this last week interview on MassLive. And I mean, he he pretty much warned against the whole like the heating mentioned anyone by name but like we don't want you trade for guys back burner make more in free agency this summer than we think they're worth. I think was this quote and I feel like four days exactly that guy now, maybe they approached look at the market for him. And I mean there's a bunch of guys and in his ilk whether it's like, you know a norm Powell or Kelly oubre. There's a lot of these guys that I may be a little bit above mid-level type guys and we'll see how much real cap space there ends up being but there's the quality of players in the market is just not going to be great at the top tier here. But unless the Celtics decide pickle these guys. Hey like having Bird right some of these guys we can we think we're gonna be able to come to a deal that makes sense for us. That's you can make understand that appeal and say okay, that's cool. Getting the bird rights and that guy whether it's using him in a to get something in a sign-and-trade or you know, signing him to a three or four-year deal that could be another movable contract for us to line that can make it worth it back in that extra, you know, first round pick to the deal when you're also getting Gordon, but beyond something like that. When you you feel good about where you are there it just it doesn't it doesn't do much for me. If you're going to go book. I like smart in the deal and I'm not the biggest smart fan either compared to a lot of people but I still look at this and being like this is you know, you can do what you're trying to do this deal. In other way of giving up smart. I feel like see I look at it the other way and maybe this is where I get accused of being like. Oh, this is too much you're too into the spreadsheet and two into the map of it or something. But like I think for me is just an expired contract they can use them this season. They need bodies this season, they like whatever they'll do in the playoffs this season and also just don't want to like as I've talked about like there's a crazy schedule and anything you can save miles like there's some value in that but dead. I just don't think that signing Evan Fournier would like make a whole lot of sense for this thing going forward, especially if you're giving up smart. Like what are you going to lock in Forty-Eight for three or four years? Basically all the money that you have left that just doesn't seem to be sort of logical conclusion to this type of team building change and like what you would really want to be saying is we are building this team around Jaylen Brown Jayson Tatum and Aaron Gordon as this sort of three wing sort of thing Robert Williams with his emergence. Maybe you know, he's your lung cancer at Center and then you want a guard who you know is a smart was right a bigger point guard but somebody who can shoot and is sort of more of a traditional point guard and that you're going to sort of get your defense by structure and by being really Wing heavy and and sort of big and long and not trying to rely on like individual Excellence at any given position in that in that world again, if you can find a way to move Kemba in particular within a budget like you might have so the number that I come up with is that if they were to do that in just let foreign a walk and you can clear Tristan Thompson as part of this trade and the way I have it structured which makes the most sense to me is that they gave Ken Birch and perches also expiring which are basically just saying we're going to do we're functionally doing like Smart Plus cap flexibility. Sorry spark plus draft picks for Aaron gas cap flexibility and you have maybe like twenty-four twenty-five million to work with if your budget is about ten million over the tax line and if you can move Kemba in there to a team that has cap space or an unbalanced rate of some sort where you clear more space, you know, you might have you know, thirty-five million dollars that won't be cap space but like you'll have big trade exceptions and ways to acquire players that you could work with there. And again, if you have been covered all your life, like it's hard to necessarily see how that works out. But like you could go out and acquire a you know, a point guard who sort of fits into what you're talking about. You might even be able to assign in trade because you know, yep. Grated enough space where if you think bonds are being made, right? Yeah, like you can you you basically have given yourself some number of outs in the deck by making this trade that seems sort of bad now. I mean, I don't know if you have any like anything you wanted to mention on that I can talk a little bit about some like the historical relevance of that that you and I went through with doing some trade ranking stuff last summer about like why that's not crazy to think that they might be doing at home. Yeah. I mean again that's to your point of disc could being like two or three steps ahead. Like this is stuff. We can't know they're playing for but what you just walk in there those logically makes sense. I wonder if there are other ways to to do like like what states let's look at Tristan Thompson fridge and right now, Do is he not able to be moved somewhere just for an expiring like separately? Like I look at that like I think really happening. Right but like I wonder if like home and I guess that's the thing of like, okay, let's just do it all at once as opposed to like figuring out separate components and maybe magic just want them for you. But I would think of well, I'll give you the reason that sorry. I don't mean to step over all good. So the reason is that by including Tristan Thompson in this in so I'll just I guess I have actually said it the structure that I have laid out for how this makes the most sense to me is I'm not saying that this is a trade that I love. I'm just saying like based on who has been mentioned in the rumors. And and what's out there would be that's also get Gordon Fournier and Ken Birch. And as of the rumors of say they're going to trade smart and draft picks and then what else makes it work. And so if you include Tristan Thompson and semi ojeleye and carsen Edwards, what do you end up with? Well, you end up below the tax, which is the first thing and that means that you get the more unrestricted God. Trade rules around what you can match was. So in that structure Marcus Smart matches to Gordon Hayward score Hayward to Aaron Gordon so that you don't have to worry about Tristan Thompson and not Edwards match the Fournier just barely five million dollars less they fit because you're under the tax khem Birch fits into the enes Kanter trade exception. So what you've done by structuring this way including Tristan Thompson cheat is that you haven't used any of the Gordon Hayward TV, so you can use it this summer you could also use it. If you move, you know, one of the things I've talked about like if you move Kemba out you could take the players that you have to take back for Kemba into the Gordon Hayward TV and roll the then you create a big Kemba Walker trade exception that lasts a whole nother year, right? So like I think that's what you're doing is you're not only if you send Tristan Thompson out and some other deal that's cheaper on its face off going to cost you some or all of your trade exception stuff, which if you include him here, like what's the value of that? You've already given up 2 seconds for are you willing to sink more value into doing that? I don't really know. Those are some thoughts. So this point like but I I do think that you can if you structure a trade that way and you sort of look at as the individual parts of what you're really getting out of it. Like what you're getting is Aaron Gordon cap flexibility a big tpe to maintain and have again some flexibility with you get guys for this season who gets take a look at maybe Fournier you fall in love with them or you get to my good deal khem Birch same sort of idea. He's your third time. So like that's why I think you include trip down here is like just basically it makes the numbers like way easier to work. If you remove Fournier and you're saying can't you just send Tristan Thompson somewhere else and not worry about having 48 sure fine easier that way but that doesn't seem to be what they're talking about right now. But online is the fastest and easiest way to bet on all your Sports Action of football might be over and know until Bill Belichick that but MBA college basketball nhler in full swing off but online even covers Awards TV shows and reality T V real time updated odds and props and almost anything you can imagine but online has you covered for all the news scores and odds the best way to place your bets wage. Free to sign up hence the website or use your mobile device to sign up today receive your 50% Welcome bonus on your first deposit. Don't sit on the sidelines anymore. Get in on the action. Don't forget to use that promotion code clns 50 to receive your 50% Welcome bonus with your first deposit, but online they are your online Sportsbook experts. Maybe just they want to see what forty looks like dead-on a good team is expiring. I really didn't let him go maybe the sign-and-trade him out somewhere else. I don't know there's enough cap space for that might not you know be viable but and if you're worried if you're worried about maintaining the tpe then Couldn't you just do like smart and a First recording and then move Thompson elsewhere and that's still that's still a car that has all your goals. And you save a first-round pick and that's near I don't know like yeah, I mean the question there is does that is that a couple of sholom Orlando's goals? And if it doesn't then it doesn't write off or I would think Orlando honestly might be thinking. Hey, like if we can get you first for for Gordon, like what can we do? I guess it depends on how much they like smart anticipation and whether they can get first then if you're into your favorite, he's saying to the others like hey, you can get rid of Tristan Thompson and take Evan Fournier in Cambridge for free and we'll also take Beaujolais and Carson our home or that's it's the question of like is that one additional first-round pick worth moving Thompson and getting 48 and retaining the entirety PE and getting rid of Carson Edwards for the first emotionally deprived. What you think of O July's like if he's a positive or negative value, whatever neutral let's call it and that's what I'm getting into like. I can make the argument for either side of that which means to me that means it's not like a ridiculous trade right? It's not something that I look at and break down the parts and go like why would either side want to get involved. So why would one side have any interest in this I can make some changes for it? I don't from us others are like I don't love the case for it. But again, like I don't love where the team is right now and I don't really know what the out. So I'm just surprised you're voting Theory. Marcus Smart phone number eighty-two can't believe we're doing this. I don't I'm not saying anything like getting I don't want to make the greater good because as a like as a fan, I would just rather have Marcus Smart because I like him and I like watching him play and all that off. If you're asking me to like, you know, look at it from from a you know, trying to like take myself out of that look at it from outside of perspective. You know, there are I mean we can talk about smart. Let's talk about like what is Smarts mean smartest had a bad year. Yeah. Fred is taking a step back on both ends of the floor this year. He's been hurt. It's hard to reach him right now. Especially coming off this a rough calf injury is only six seven games in here. But his shooting numbers are back down to where I want them to be both in the field and from 3 and in volume and especially involving many his his crunch-time issues are have been I'd say just as bad as ever this year. If you look at the 4th quarter numbers, they are terrific and he is as confident as ever taking those shots. So clearly we talked about this at the end of last season in that Heat series. Nothing else changed were in your cell phone. So it might be a situation. Where is is a situation where we're the front office is like, you know, he's not going off. Here long-term now, we're not going to afford it and we not sure if this is the right fit in terms of you know with the guys we have or and and do you feel like it's at and what and what do you think his legitimate trade value is around only just you know as a stand-alone. I think that's what we're learning a little bit here is that it's not huge and there's been this sort of thing that's been said four years of like smart is more than able to the Celtics than he is to anybody else and maybe that's not true anymore. Maybe but I don't think it's his value to the rest of the week as come up. It's maybe that is value to the Celtics that started to diminish because he is regular injured. He does make pretty questionable decisions that you can Overlook when he was like twenty three that are hard to overlook to how and his shooting hasn't gotten much better. And you do question like as he ages are some of his physical gifts that have allowed them to be such an elite Defender over time. Are they going to start to diminish? He only has a season-and-a-half left on his deal. We have seen this Exodus of talent as guys have, you know, a lot of their contracts run down now that last month You have to balance but if you're taking Evan Fournier so that you can let him go and get an expiring like that is not rolling assets forward necessarily, although again as we talked about there are other ways that you can look at that as creating asset opportunities off. And so if you like his defense as he ages and deals with all these injuries overtime is not going to be at the level was before and his offense has not matured in any meaningful way like he's somewhat of a past life but usually his passing looks good on this team because like that's an indictment of how poor the rest of the team is is as pastors. It's not because he's like some, you know, exceptional password. And so yeah, if you think that is offensive stagnating is defense is probably going to progress at some, you know with age and that his contract is a season-and-a-half out. Like, where are you with that if he was, you know a a super valuable role player on a team again that had title aspirations. Then you would be willing to run out contract and see what that happens and say, okay. Well if it's next contract doesn't look so good a year and half from now than we can make that decision then but that's not where the team is right now and you right it's decision time on some of these things because that's what happens when you lose a lot of games and when you're you know, you're playing really bad in the fourth quarter with the teams playing really bad in the fourth quarter and it just doesn't look good. So, it's I've said it many times like it's not something I particularly talking about cuz I like smart very much and even one of my favorite players but from a GM perspective like it's not unreasonable to be talking about the head know. I mean, this is these are discussions that have to happen this offseason like a hundred percent have to have this office and so in kicking the can on all of them right now for things we thought I came out for much of the Year doesn't make a lot of sense cuz you're not opening. You're not opening a lot of doors to talk season that you are better off doing then as compared to now. So this is you know, kind of being proactive on the front if the opportunity is there is obviously a step in the right direction no matter what direct whether it's smart, whether it's moving other salary or just consolidating some of these young guys like there's a lot of different paths that they're going to have to take eventually. So on a team that isn't going anywhere. There's no reason not to do it now. Yeah, I mean if they hadn't signed, or had a way to move Kemba now in a way that would return you know, basically to get out of that deal then I don't know if we would have to have this conversation which again goes back to what we talked about like couldn't you do this trade with camping? I don't think you really tan. I don't it seems like the magic wouldn't really be all that interested in him and that weighs on a lot of things and that has This sort of cascading effect where yeah, if you weren't under the financial pressures that are probably coming then again, you could live with it for for a little bit longer and try to figure it out but it's just like they're as you said the offseason these things are coming. There. Is this Confluence of major questions that are that are arriving and like if somebody offers you a trade where you're like, well, maybe we could do better this offseason but like how much better and maybe we won't be able to do it. Like maybe it'll be worse. Maybe it'll be a little bit better. Like do you just take it now and say like this is kind of a Lost season. Anyway, we're going to make our changes now while we can and see if we see if it Sparks something with the rest of the season we get some extra bodies that can save some miles and all that kind of stuff like it's fine. But yeah, and then this ends up being a circular conversations then you just come back to how what's the pixel value? You know, how much are these pics really worth that you're putting into this trade whether or not it's it's a it's worth it and Like right with all trades like this or a few days away from the deadline like the structure that we're talking about probably doesn't happen. It's probably just you know it maybe it gets close and we hear the famed. It's we got closed off and so we may never know the answers those questions and never be able to really like analyze what we're talking about here. But if it does happen, we will know we can make an analysis of it, you know a couple hours after when we know that the full parameters of everything happened until then they we sort of reached the end of of how far we can we can put this together but I don't know don't include Rob Williams. That's a good sign. It don't do that. All right, a couple of other names throw that has surfaced in the last couple of hours here, as you know, some of these are surprised as being available some of these are not a one-way marketed, Chicago. Pretty much the same parameters as you're looking at with like a call is deal in the sense of you're gonna have to pay him a whole lot of money after the sausage and you're going to have to move salary the launcher fit here. I mean, he's not good as the C. That's I agree like this is good. He just isn't the type of player. I like so in general I sort of overlooked him as like, I don't really want that kind of player but like there's no doubt that he's a good player market and is life. Just not a good player really so I like and he's he's only played twenty two games. He he's heard a lot. I feel like over the course. As a another Mark against him home and the bolsters have been good when he's been on the court. So they've been better with what he's been away. So yeah that I'll be curious to see if they can get any like what kind of value they can get for him wage. I don't I don't think he has, you know, he hasn't shown signs that he's even I mean wouldn't even think about giving him a a decent first round pick at this point Yahoo sports reporting job. Pacers are taking calls on Malcolm Brogdon. Brogden would be really helpful for those others. I find it hard to believe that the Celtics and the Pacers are going to make a deal right now, like personalities do matter and some of that stuff. I also just start to like put together what the pieces are what they would really want back and how you would make all that that work. He what are the Pacers doing? Like, I don't think the Pacers are sort. I was having this conversation with somebody else on Twitter just before we jump on the phone. It's like the Pacers are someone in the same position of the Celtics where it's like if you just don't like the way that your season is going and you're looking down the line. You mean like do we really, you know, we don't like this season. Is this the core we want to lock in for the future and your answer them know that you make trades that some that you look at it. Like boy. I'm surprised that guy could could be available in your like well, we didn't actually like being a team that was built around Malcolm Brogdon Myles Turner Inn domantas sabonis home. So we're making them available and like it doesn't mean Millie get traded. But what else are you supposed to do like you just keep Yeah, no noise. No one wants the rest of the stuff on your roster. So you have to engage on the guys that have feel in in Brogan's contract is probably one of the more attractive ones in the league of em, you know not working on Max guys a couple of years left and not yet. But he could really help the Bucks. Maybe they could he could help a lot of teams pretty much. Anyway, it's just a matter of what you're going to you know, what you're going to put into that cuz he's not like a obviously it's not like a superstar player. He's a good player at a position that is sort of wage things need it, but it's not like the number one thing that they generally need sabonis. Is you know, I don't know it's a bonus is good. Obviously, I think it's a little bit I have to be older and how you want to build your team there as well. I don't think either of them are gonna get traded but may I already have and I just haven't seen it yet. I don't really know. There's a lot of people are like they see so bonus like the Celtics need to get the bonus to Publix me. As far as I know. They don't just don't for the same reason. They don't need to pay other centers who you know, what are we going to start? Whatever he's a good player, but I don't think he's anything particularly interesting with the Celtics bragging would be but again, you just come back to the demo question of like if you didn't have kembla Brogden would be really interesting but it seems very likely that they will have Kemba through, you know through at least the into the offseason and so like how do you make those other things work? All right, anyone else striking your fancy here as we get into the final two days final 48 Hours of the countdown. I mean doesn't need a lot of big surprises. It seems like guy like, I think like Gordon there's certain guys that are gonna move in Gordon feels like one of them but tons of names out there and we'll see I feel like a lot of guys are expiring contracts will also get moved but beyond that it wouldn't shock me if you know like most years the the smoke with the the big news ends up being a little fire. There is just a lot of a lot of chatter and not a lot of action. Yeah, I mean it's it seems like every year whatever you think it's just pick the opposite, right? So in terms of like how much trade volume there will be. There's not like a ton of other we've talked about so many of the guys that would just be rehashing a couple of weeks ago. Like I tweeted out a picture that was like Jerry, you know, that's Grant is a smokescreen for Harrison Barnes. Who's a smokescreen for Aaron Gordon. Who's the smoke screen for the real Target? Larry Nance Jr. Long. We've been sending snaps never as mentioned in any of these things. He's very quiet on that. So it would be the perfect outcome for me if they literally follow that exact same path ended up getting Larry Nance who fits for a number of reasons. I am I talking about again many times before but he's not being mentioned in anything. Maybe that's good for the people who think that these all these these things always come out of left field. It seems like Gordon's going to get moved. I mean it seems like what's happening in Orlando is that that front office has been so sort of stuck in a not making moves that now they have some guys who are like demanding trades basically. Yeah. Gordon's one. It seems like there might be a couple others who have been sort of vocal about the fact that they're ready to wage. To move on and look for something else. So maybe that's just what it is that they've got gotten kind of stale and and tired of it. So I would expect going to go somewhere. We would you pay the like same price for name is Gordon all things being equal. For what's the price that we're talking? Let's say like if you're talking so I think that there are a lot like strapping young player. Yeah. Sure. I think that's the trade for Nance would be waived. As I said, I don't know how many other like Grant Williams and our first round pick this year. If you can get an answer that I would do that right away. It seems like they don't want to do that. I've expanded that off their ideas, you know, you could send Daniel theis to the one I use is Denver and they send jamychal green and the second round pick to Cleveland and they sort of Cleveland gets their power foam and gets a second round picking up first and you and you know, like I think there's ways that it makes sense that are maybe a little bit bigger than that depending on how much you value types in a world where Tristan Thompson isn't gone and we're you offering a chance to play small-ball center and rub Williams playing better. So like I think that's around the right price for it now Cleveland just sort of structurally with what they have on their books and what Nance's and how much money he makes it harder to. And it out into these sort of bigger picture trades like like Gordon is but like Larry Nance is a good player. He has an extra year that's sort of his always his own life as much about contract and like position as a has been about fifteen is a great player. He allows them much more the flexibility like an the salary Flex where you're talking about getting a guy for Chris making next 12 11 10 like that that just opens the door more there so long any other extra here when expires after next year Gordon's on the same timeline as what smart is so that's always, you know, giving you give up smart and you get back another players on the exact same time line. It's a little bit questionable as to what your finger so Thursday. It's Cuz I look at Cleveland. I wonder it's like okay. Is there a deal there for the Celtics to give up two first-round picks and you're getting enough back on top of the amp Junior but it's hard to find that guy on the roster since like you don't really want Osmond. I feel like and you don't want anything. You don't want Prince obviously and everyone else in the roster not going to move Garland or Sexton. So it's hard to find like that, you know in between fit unless you're like, you know, maybe you're getting back a couple seconds from them or something like that so until to soften the blow of of giving up two first-round picks, but that's why I sort of include twice as like, you know, your tie scan places functionally a small ball Center really and you know for all that Nancy is more of a power forward or or a wing. He had plenty of History playing small-ball Center. And so you can put I don't think Cleveland would have much interest in Thai. So can you find a way to get like some other small asset to to ship around and things like that, you know, you can get into all those structures. They're not being mentioned in basically anything. I'm really see anything very few things that are coming out of you know, on the sort of normal Rumor Mill about the Cavs that doesn't mean that they aren't working a million things behind the scenes. Look at your trade Andre Drummond. I don't know heard that sure. Yep. Undergarments available. Kevin Love also is available. It's just you don't you don't hear much in terms of the interesting players and that's part. I wouldn't necessarily even want to expand it from dance. Like Again part of the reason that Nance works is because there's a life right around Aaron Gordon's contract where it's like if you have a guy on top of Gordon's contract, if you have more than a sort of like sixteen million dollars next year. It gets hard to see how they're going to keep smart and everybody and wage and everybody else. Anyway without finding some way to clear some other money. And so if you were to like Hey, we're going to get Osmond on top of on top of Nancy or just back into that dollar amount. That's like why don't we just have Harrison Barnes and like deal with the contracts problems. Anyway, like, you know, it's you just rather maybe go that route. Even if you say he's not available you get what I'm saying? Like you'd want a a single player who's more expensive if you're going to end up dealing with those contract and tax headache. Anyway, the whole point of Nance's that he makes less. So if you add more to it than that means it's more right, you know you they don't have a good don't really good role-players. Yeah. I mean if you could add French Pub Collin Sexton whatever like that would be a different conversation cuz he's a different better player and and in some manner but they don't you wouldn't want to be adding like a sort of you know, another mid-tier wing on top of it cuz you're just not going to bring them. All right, we'll get back to 7:48 might just be an expiring contract little, you know, eat up some minutes this year and then let them go somewhere else and see if you can get a second round pick in a sign-and-trade Emeril not really is dead. They couldn't flip them right away. Right? I mean you can put them as part of the same trade. Obviously you can you have them send an email that almost would make more sense then but that's making but then it did tell you brain. Can you get can you get something and you get a second round figure out exactly what ever write that bad to me would make sense of being like, okay find a 90% on every 40 and get her whatever percent and get a draft asset. That'd be a good enough reason to expand it would make more sense in terms of what you're trying to do. But you know talk is implication because the proposal I had out literally has like a million dollars below the tax line. So you would have to I don't even know what to bring makes compared to 4 a.m. Like so if that might even not work, I don't even know. Yeah, I mean you could expand it from there. They have two days. They come to some agreement. They have some amount of time to try to work it out. There's also a question about what just you know with Tristan Thompson want to be in Orange? No, probably not. So there's any number of ways that you could spin out like we sort of going back to where we started right? You can open this up to a million different possibilities like the basic structure. I think you can make a trade. It's not wildly out of line. Even if when you first look at it, you're going to be like, I don't know about that. But again, you know, like I said, you look back at the history and there's plenty of Trades like that Antoine Walker and raef lafrentz and I'm losing the the pick that became Brandon Rowley and all these other things that can work out in the end if what you're buying is time and flexibility. If you're you know, a few venues that well it can work out and really good ways. It's just there's no guarantees. So it's it's a tough road. All right, let's wrap up quickly on this. We haven't talked about bogdanovich at all. Atlanta and that doesn't make much sense to me does that so yeah, so this is I guess again as like a hair. I mean, he's not Harrison Barnes. He's obviously off his first not much to defend her. So but from a from a cost standpoint getting him and John Collins is like, well, you're not your payroll goes Bonkers unless you can find a way to like pretty much totally dumped camp on the off season. So from that standpoint that makes me feel like that would have to be like an Uber Blockbuster and I saw Atlanta asking about you know saying they're asking about Jaylen brown type of scenario like that, but I I I can't imagine that's you know, the selfsame are going to go down that road for for those type of players. Yeah, the problem with the problem I have with bogdanovich is that he basically signed what I would say was a fair value contract in the offseason for the player that he had been to that point and this year he's sucked in a malcontent and so like now that's a negative value contract is whatever comes here and sucks and is a malcontent like maybe he won't be but if the best he was playing before got in that deal and you looked at it more like okay that's cheating Millions kind. Have a lot for for bogdanovich but like okay, that's probably maybe that's fair value for him as a what you would think would be an okay starting to guard and so I don't really with the number of years and there's just too much risk there and not like a ton of upside cuz he's an older player already came into League was twenty-five or twenty-six years old. So like it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that would almost be like taking him back as part of the valve getting you know trying to get John Collins, but the Celtics aren't in a position to be taking long term money of that type. I don't think particularly if they were getting John Collins and we're going to have to page him. So that doesn't really sort of pass the test for me and you know, unless you move it out and you suddenly include a bunch of other players and it's oh he's going to Toronto am getting Norm Powell in your back to just being like an expiring contract or something like it is for for Nia. It's just kind of tough for me to put that one together. Yeah, it's I mean you can kind of see this total for land the options and they just signed a bazillion guys like that so many overlapping skill sets and maybe I thought okay. Hopefully, you know, how long you figure out who you like? We can move off these guys and again since I'm desperate teams, and I'm sure I mean, I feel like booked on Mitchell when like the Clippers or something like that some team that doesn't have much choice but are desperate for them now and the on the upside bit that he he turns around but like you said the Celtics certainly not a spot for that this year. Yeah flip bug. If it's for Kennard and everybody can walk on the wheel of two guards who signed for decent money and underperforming. So, yeah, that's all I actually got a I got a we'll wrap this up. We'll get this month didn't hear. All right. We'll be back with you guys later this week to react to all this stuff while running at danger Khan Twitter. Follow me at Bryant you robbed and tear myself from at 5, and we'll talk to you guys log.

Tristan Thompson Aaron Gordon Evan Fournier Marcus Smart Kemba Celtics Gordon Gordon Hayward Fournier Carson Edwards Ken Birch khem Birch Brian Rob Brian bernardoni Captain cuz Pacers Ken Bode
91: Celtics Blow Game 1 vs. Heat

Winning Plays

33:53 min | 7 months ago

91: Celtics Blow Game 1 vs. Heat

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network. The leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. Welcome back to the winning Place podcast with Brian Rob. I'm rich Levine and not exclude game one. That's the only way to put it at think that point. What's that straight to the point? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know that this wasn't this wasn't game three against Toronto isn't life in mental lapse with Point 5 seconds left South kept fourteen in the fourth quarter up 5 with like 60 seconds left, then turn the page up for with three minutes left in OT up one with 12 seconds left. No disrespect to the heat clearly a great team, you know, bam Jimmy or Starz drag drag played like one tonight Harrow is not far behind. But Saddam had this one one and and they let it go. Yeah, I mean, I guess let's start let's start the very end. The band Bloc is probably going to be on highlight reels for like dead kids. Do we think like that was I've never seen a stop like that as long as as long as there's still an MBA as long as the NBA exists will be seeing replays of that block. I guess it would depend on if the Heat win if the the whoever wins the series that will decide a lot about how much we remember that block. But if the heat go on to make the finals and and who knows when the finals that is going to be very heavy in the rotation just an amazing place and what can you say the guy's a freak? We said that coming in? He's an All-Star. He is a star plays like that situations like that song are when you know where the story is told, you know where the legacies are made and and that was that was a legendary block. Yeah, it's it was a I guess the the counter to everyone who was upset with Tatum for just taking all the pulp shots in the last, you know, a regulation and overtime and he finally makes the move to the room and that's what happened. So I guess that's like, okay. Well, you know, you don't do this why he might not be as often here. Let's let's start with Tatum. I I he had another monster night 30 points 14 rebounds 5630 blocks. I mean that's uh fifth straight double-double. But you know how many times even had three straight double-doubles in his career before the stretch like wage is maybe 0 0 you have three or four situations where you had back-to-back double-doubles, but never had as many as three now, we're five and Counting and and in the Eastern Conference Finals wow dead. yet is largely going to be overshadowed by the fact that he went to of 10 in the fourth quarter and overtime and a lot of those shots where not all bad shots, but enough where you know, I guess it was more just the entire offense turned into the old dock reverse duct clogged toilet Playbook off from the Atlantic 3-year the Brad talked about that at all after the game cuz it's just like, you know, you hated we talked about four four 14-point lead, you build it for the most part by playing Celtics basketball by moving the ball around and not so obviously helps when when Marcus is having a game like he had tonight but you know, then Kemba has the shot to go up fourteen very early in the fourth and like you said that ball mooh vich assist all you know, it gets a lot of one-on-one. It's a lot of isolation and like how did that happen or what did Brett how to break comment on that? Yeah. He just I mean he was like, yeah, we can't do that. We got away from it off and but obviously obviously you can't do that right like exactly it's like, all right, Brad like it's your job to you know, call something or get them get that ball moving again because that you like wage. That's when the last time they had an assist in that game was. Well at all at all. I mean sometime in the fourth quarter I imagine right it was three minutes left in the fourth quarter of the Tatum have a drive and the dish to Tice for an easy like, you know six-footer. So zero overtime assist zero time it says and I think the most damning part of it was just watching last 3 minutes of Regulation again, no one else touched the ball in the final three minutes of regulation on offense. Besides Kemba and Tam The Only Exception being Jaylen Brown grabbing an offensive rebound passing it to smart and then smart just throwing it out to Kemba to run more clock and I credit the jailing cuz he's a situation where all of a sudden. Okay, I guess I'm just not touching the ball anymore. But he was down there. He he had the shipment. He had the tip in on the offensive board. He had that other big offensive rebound that you just mentioned but he essentially has to turn into Robert Williams or Daniel theis situation A guy who's averaging twenty points a game in the regular season twenty points a game, you know last last series against Toronto Cup playoffs in general and all of a sudden at the most critical time in the first game the Eastern Conference Finals. He's just being phased out of the offense. If just it doesn't make sense. Yeah, and like you said, it's got a great job you here for offensive rebounds on nights. You had a couple, you know, big ones down there and he didn't that's what ya saying it empowered. He wouldn't say. Okay, we what the hell you guys aren't passing to me now. He said, okay, I guess you're not passing to me. I'm going to start crashing the boss. See, that's the only way that I can touch the ball is the only way that I can affect the game. And so yeah, give them some credit but just hope it doesn't get to that know and I guess the bigger dick in part to me is like, you know smart was nine of 18 in this game. Jalen was six to fourteen they were playing. Well, they were shooting will especially from 3 a.m. Kemba was not Kemba was you know for Seventeen in regulation. So if anything this was not a night to be like, you know Tatum that's one thing he's going to die. So he had it going you're not going to fight too much of that. But you know, even though campus had times where he's broken out of in the fourth quarter here, it's just there you have pretty strong secondary options here if the ball moves and went to start moving again and over time, they they scored again and just not enough. Yeah. Yep. And Kim, but did you know score that the basket it towards the end of overtime? I think twenty-three seconds left or whatever was to give the Celtics a lead on a classic can't move and a classic campus score but it's it's interesting you say that you know, you mentioned because he was horrible again tonight. It was before before, you know, before you got down the stretch absolutely horrible not even a situation where he where he can get his shot. Nevermind Edinburgh, and I don't know what what and and I just assumed that it was to me. I don't know what else to think at that point because you gotta think about that. I mean, but that'd be right. But then you get to crunch time, then you get to that page go to the potential almost game-winning jumper against against heroin. Like he looked pretty good. He looked like Kemba again. So I don't know if it's just that if he's he's feeling the need to conserve himself a little bit earlier in these games and when it gets down to two o t in the fourth quarter, he's just like fuck it. I just gotta go all out and whatever happens happens and maybe he's maybe if he played like that the entire game, who knows maybe he wouldn't be able to log Up, as long as he has but it's just it's it's hard to see a guy of that level in All Star playing like he has so consistently now. It's at least three straight games and not sure if it's something physical. Yeah. I think the word you know, it's three straight games under three three percent shooting. I think he's 5 is last 36 from three-point range over the last five games. So that's like not good not good. And yeah, I mean they're you know, obviously still bring them out there for 38 minutes regulations. So they're not taking easy on him at all from a physical standpoint. So and you get to a situation where you know where he's where he's playing like that at offense and then if you know from the flipside offensively there were there are stretches now where Miami's trying to attack him. Oh, yeah. Well, here's I mean break it down know. I mean to your point. I thought his defense cost from the dead. in the last minute there what happened so that Hero 3 Number one, you know, makes the the jumper overcrowded puts them up five. He come right back down can bus kind of you know home run track it back gets back but has to take a tough angle on here. Oh and it becomes a scramble. He leaves here for a second, even though it says man and gives up the open at 3. That's number one. And then he misses the jumper going down. The other way next possession down the floor Butler gets a switch on the kembo takes the drive if she can we play as good you at first forces the past but then just helps way too far off Butler in the corner and you know home runs through recovery when the the past comes out to Butler and Butler hits the go-ahead through there. You can't give up a go-ahead three there when you're when you're up to that is that's the cardinal sin. Yeah, and and and it's one of those things you talked about the three pointers, you know, whereas the Celtics were as close as they were so many times to to win this game Miami shoots at 44% 3. Yeah, and and and eventually we'll we'll try to take an optimistic have an opposite of optimistic take on this and and think about you know, how this ourselves can turn this around just clearly again, you're up fourteen points in the fourth quarter. You might not need to change too many things about the game plan. Clearly you put yourself in the position to win right up 5 with a minute left and with a team shooting 44% from 3. You don't assume they're going to do that extent of the series, but for this game with the other stuff that went wrong, it's just it's just too many opportunities, you know, the Killer Instinct wasn't there and yeah when a team can can shoot like the way he can and that they did tonight like you're eventually going to run into trouble. Should they have just closed the Brad Wanamaker on the floor? Fucking crazy, but that's a joke. I mean, that's a joke it is is it is it I don't know. It's I mean not with the way that that again and when you have Tatum playing like like he was for most of the game tonight, you know before he kind of knows should know show down the stretch. I think what was the last seven minutes he went scoreless. Yeah, that sounds right something around me. He had a free throw with the smart. When got the, you know, drew the the away from the ball foul to get them into overtime, you know, and you and you talk about you know, water makers defense right five Steals and that's not always like super indicative of how you're playing as a team team defense and man-to-man like a lot of that is like circumstantial when you get steals like that but just had his nose off everything was able to get to the hoop. We're we're kemon hasn't hasn't wasn't able to do it necessarily tonight finished pretty well. Just a tough dudes. Right? I mean that that's kind of what you need and in those stretches, especially when you know and drag it's mentioned in quickly at the top just start and I you know, he he kept them in that for the majority of the game. Yeah, I mean 11:00 and 19 from the field 3 or 6 from 3. Just getting to the rim the rim just that will and it's you might mean just probably one of the toughest guys scoring the entire now cuz his he's you know, he's hidden three. Is that the close to a 40% clip and unlike the other guys like his dribble-drive game is usually the best part of his game. So like you don't have to be afraid of like hero or or Robinson or Crowder on that front but dragic that's like that's his bread and butter. So you're you're in a really tough spot whenever you're trying to guard him and the Celtics clearly found that out tonight no matter who is on them. Yeah, no and hero is he's he's pretty damn good to 12:11 and 9:40 minutes. And it obviously Duncan Robinson gone to some follow even realize he had eleven and nine whole cow. Yeah. No, he was everywhere. He was doing everything he 20 years old. That's that's scary again. You don't you're not necessarily gain expect him to to to play maybe as much maybe not forty minutes a game. You know, if Robinson didn't get into foul trouble. Maybe he plays a little bit more but I don't know he was also, you know, I also have him guarding a camper maybe that was you know, maybe they got a switch there. I didn't haven't re-watched that play yet. But you know, he's in positions. He's just he's he's a front and center and in the in the Conference Finals and in a crazy thing, but he's ready for you know, these crazy to think also that this is the guy who went but one pic before Romeo, Langford. Yes, there's a coin flip away from being a Celtic since the Celtics lost that. That tie with Miami I think is that was the sacramental pic. Man, but anyways, so you you lose again like that and you turn the page to next game. If you're the Celtics game funny like, you know, even with all the the back and forth the rollercoaster of this Toronto series never got the sense that Brad Stevens ever broke the confidence that he had and and his team of like if we just do what we need to do. If we do what we can do we can beat this team and you gotta think that he's going to have the same approach going to game to you know, it's not much of a mystery. It's not it's certainly not a bit of panic of how the Celtics need to need to approach this. They just need to I think just play a little bit more as a team 40th Street minutes. Clearly. You need more from Canberra to like right off the top. Let's say that wage Campbell Walker is not going to be Kemba Walker before until Gordon Hayward comes back. It's going to the games are going to remain close, you know, but if Kemba if Kim can play like he did Down the stretch and and over time, you know with that confidence would that you know know early in the game. It's not even getting to the hoop know and I mean the he did throw like a lot like Ram double-teams Adam at times that kind of again throw them off balance. But yeah to your point like he wasn't the burst that was there a few weeks ago. It seemed to be there tonight consistently and that is a huge concern. I mean for now, Miami is treating him like the guy stood still has that long but it has to re-emerge our else the Celtics will be in trouble in the series. Like you said, I mean for me he needs to be better on at least one another for like if you can be a liability defensively like u s night and obviously shoot sixth nineteen like you can usually one of those things balanced each other out. He's been far better than expected defensively this year but dead. It was you know for him to be a liability and be a bad decision maker defensively in terms of figuring out when to switch and you know, just getting back to Mark guys like that. You just can't have that in a game like this. No, you certainly can because you look around in like I don't you know, I wasn't super impressed with Miami's depth to me, especially coming coming up that Toronto series like you look around. I don't think a guy like Jones would be getting very many minutes. And for for for the Raptors, you didn't see very many minutes like that or even equal dollar certainly not like a linick right like a rough night. Yeah. No, that was I think there was a stretchy kept on finding himself and on Tatum and that's kind of that's going to be tough. If it comes down to Tatum first Kelly. I think like the Celtics chances in this but yeah, I mean, I think I think as long as he's out there that that's good for the Celtics but there were those minutes there were those that you didn't necessarily see against Toronto and the pockets are there against the Heat where the Celtics I think can have a really distinct advantage and it shows at times tonight, but you know obviously wasn't enough and I think again this can either be a wake-up call to talk about you know, the Lakers lost first game of birth. For about their Series so far, you know, we saw the the Bucs lost against the magic we've seen in these playoffs are playoffs in general that you know, losing the first game of a series certainly not a death sentence, especially when you when you still feel like the Celtics are the better team, but they didn't do themselves any favors tonight. They didn't so what you know going into game to now what do you change? There were some interesting defensive matchups going on Thursday 8 a.m. To spend a lot of time on Butler which wasn't a huge surprise, you know, you have you have three different guys that you can go there with them there and with smart and brown but that's just like a matchup that even in crunch-time Brad Stevens was sticking with and then I mean bench usage shimmy played a bunch in the first half. That didn't go great Wanamaker pad. I mean, it felt like that the game changed with him. I mean they went on a huge run the third quarter when he came into that game and six assists for him. He the ball was popping with him in there. And that's how he didn't play a perfect game by any means but you know 25 minutes for him. I would imagine that's going to still be around that number especially of corn as a backlog. And I mean Robin Grant seemed they were find that he stay away from Cantor. Like did you have any quibbles do you on fie? Anything really just they're going forward? No, I'm never going to have any quibbles. I think with the lack of Candor. Well, I'll pick up in that in a sec. Let me tell you real quick beer up at the wait is finally over football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action a bit online but online that AG is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on everything imaginable the season from game spreads and totals the team player and coaching props. I bet online gives you more options to wages than any place your online. You can get in on their season-opening bonuses today and start offering and start off waiting on wins Division and Championship Futures today at the bit online and take advantage of all the great sign up offices, but online your online Sportsbook experts, you know, I've always like I'd always like a little bit more time lord. What did you did you see anything from him and then yep. Brief time that would make you think that, you know could find himself back in Brad's many dog house or or or sort of lost his opportunity to make an impact in this season and this series I just I know I'd always hit the great block. Obviously. It's just I just always feel like there's a little bit more energy. There's a little bit more life to this team when he's out there Thursday. I mean, maybe like he seemed to do you know how pretty well against it out of bio and those limited minutes. So maybe you know Titus was was sought magic type as well Plus off tonight. So he was good. He only had three shots again. I think part of that is, you know, the ball wasn't moving well enough in certain points of the game. So, you know reward him for easy looks around with him. But yeah, I think you know if Tyce is going to get into more foul trouble in this series which seems to be a lot to happen after you know, he found out and 35 minutes tonight. Yeah. Yep. Got some calls there. He he filed we filed followed them pretty clearly on that dunk attempt and I think the first first quarter he drew that charge where he was pretty clearly moving right later in the game. But so what was it after after ties filed out? What was it a 11 to 4. Is that is that how ya Miami finished 11th outscored. So it's 11:00 to 4 after ties file. So they they're up for in this. Yeah, so that's yeah that will That will her right there cuz they they didn't really know who to play in that situation. I feel like they went want to make it for a little bit then they went to Grant and it's just with out of Bio out there. There's no really good choice. If you go super small then then he can kind of eat you up but then you're playing four and five to degree. If you go with with Grant or dead, you know Rob in that spot. So and what do you think the problem is with rather just they'll just they'll just run either pick-and-roll or just just get him in bad position. Yeah. I think it's just getting in bad positions. I mean he he seemed to avoid like I don't really remember any like bad spots or he didn't get out to a shooter or anything in this game, you know, you play a lot of minutes so there wasn't a ton of spots room to do that. So I woke up. I thought he held up fairly well for that spot. But yeah, I guess you know, like we talked about earlier like we talked about in the preview Brad just seems to be afraid to go to him and those crunch time spots dead. At this point so maybe that will change if you kind of breaks out as the series goes on one of these, you know quarters where he gets extended run down, but for now clearly Grant Williams is ahead of him in the the circle of trust and that you know, it paid off obviously engaged 7 and tonight it was you know, Grant didn't really need her to see is what he missed a three late. But beyond that he didn't just you know, he just kind of stayed out of the way which is which is fine. But sometimes you need a little bit more than that gives a shout-out to Marcus Smart, obviously another huge game, you know, very early kept the Celtics in it, but the heat checks were a little bit outrageous today off of the Mist the Mist Jalen pass for the dunk one of one of probably six or seven plays where I mean, there was there was one stretch where he were I think he missed three or four years. in a row and just and just tough jumpers have almost like Forrest jumpers, and I know maybe at times he feels like you know clearly there's there's a green light but I I feel like no matter what's going on no matter what how well he's playing it still feels to me like every Marcus Smart shot is a win for the Heat Yeah, I think whether you hit or miss it, I just feel like you'll take that compared to what else you know, what the other options might be. Yeah, I mean, they probably look at it that way too in terms of you know, just distract. I agree just one assist for him kind of tells the story perfectly. I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah tonight the fewest out of any one of the starting five and so that is not, you know, the the the hotshoe organized is nice, but when like you put it out and turned down several open looks under room for long shots that you know, you're not Steph Curry, even on a hot-shooting night. Like those are points that need to be had because he he's their best playmaker right now. I mean, yeah, I mean clearly Tatum's the home been racking up the assists, but just like on a pure playmaking ability, you know with with Gordon out. Marcus is is the best guy he got doing that and when he yet clearly he's been effective, you know from long range and and shooting is the name of the game now, but when it comes to creating offense one of the best and he's just he's not doing that. He didn't do that tonight. Maybe in the future end of game situations he gets to initiate a little more offense. And yeah, he wasn't touching the ball either right go ahead and talked about. Yeah, so it's like it's it hurts was stuff that hurt them seriously early in the games, but then you know when you talked about crunch time in this game, you really look at you know, two or three guys, if you want to include grad school in that equation in terms of how things kind of crumbled down the stretch but despite all that. They you know, they still had a chance they were you know one amazing block away from at least a second overtime look like and don't think that flop by Marcus when when when they were down one and regulation man. I want like you can you get a file that you think retroactively cuz I know who rushed missed that they didn't even review it, but that was that was a pretty flagrant flop. Yeah, if you I looked at it again, it looked like Kemba kind of just ran into Jones Junior which and essentially pushed him into smart. But no matter how hard at this Market wasn't as hurt as bad as Marcus history. I was ready to fall like a tree. But yeah, that was I guess when he knows hey Spoelstra use this challenge already. So what do I have to lose here? Right. I hope he was thinking about it. That would that wouldn't be surprised that would be and who knows maybe like maybe that's something that Celtics tell them like, you know, they don't have their challenge anymore. So maybe get bowled with your flaw page and our big many Celtics fans biggest fear. Maybe what we talked about as a huge X Factor in the series was Jae Crowder down the street to 3 and again, like 545 of nine. It just absurd what what has become of of Jae Crowder so deadly three-point shooter. Is the guy I always thought to this. Is it coming to fruition and I'll say that like like the Celtics did a pretty good job on Jimmy Butler tonight, like, you know finished with 20 points a lot. You know, I felt like a lot of that came late certainly, you know, when it came down to it when it was waiting time like Jimmy got the best of him, but you know for the majority of the game, they had him under control and I you know an early I think in the first quarter Tatum Marcus in jail and all had turns, you know, they weren't getting the file trouble, you know, Marcus and jailing combined for five fouls. That's a pretty good sign off. You know, when it mattered Jimmy showed that that he's Jimmy that that right if we talked about this being a contest of who's the best player, you know Butler at a time coming to the series wage. I think Tatum had the better game. But again, when it came down to it, Jimmy was the guy who who stepped up and you know hate the phrase, you know, the wouldn't let his team lose but that's you know, quite literally, you know, what happened with him home. I mean him and Bam those were the The Playmakers down the stretch there and the Celtics You know, they hit some shots, but clearly not enough to seal the deal, especially when it got down to the final minute of Regulation. So yeah, it's really dead gonna be really fun series. I don't think we are going to be in for anything shorter than six games in either direction. But the same time I think this other thing came back from this and two ways, you know, they they've bounced back from really tough bosses very well in this postseason so far beyond I'd say, you know game for and against Toronto but this is a situation now where they're down for the first time the postseason in the series and game to obviously is a must-win but it's it's pretty damn close to it if you were the number so the numbers like like like a past playoffs. Yeah, like just how tough it is to come down from come back from 2. Oh, yeah, it does feel khong Different though this year as we see the the Nuggets tonight pull off their second straight 3-1 deficit to come back in the Clipper. That's a whole other story. But but yeah, I don't know like I was thinking that if if somehow based on what we've seen even what we saw in game one, I believe that even if the Celtics lose game too, I'm not I'm clear. I don't think you're carrying them out either but I just I just think that these series are always longer than we think and I still think that the Celtics are a better team and maybe and maybe the the 200 deficit is what brings Gordon back. Who knows but I just I I have not lost faith that they are going to win the series. No, I don't think you can there is nothing that you saw in this game that makes you think that the Heat have a you know, everything going there. They they stole game here and they should get credit for that. They made the plays and the Celtics didn't but the Seas were still in a position to win despite a month from one of their All-Stars and everyone that heat short of you know, that mattered sort of like Duncan Robinson played pretty demo of this game. So when you like look at that side to side then I think the social feel pretty good about their chances in the series despite going down to one here. Yeah, I agree. Are you write final thoughts? Are you already just preparing for the Lakers too is going to be like your sweep of the Nuggets or is the Nuggets didn't come back from 3-1 in in the past. I don't think a lot of it's a liquor sweep. I think that I think the Lakers will have their hands full with with Marie in New York, which will be interesting to obviously but I think that Marie I see we'll see how much how much playoff Rondo is left in the tank off but I think I think that'll be an advantage that they have and you know, this is a the Lakers have earned real and it's funny. I can't I can't say they haven't been tested because we all thought the Portland was going to give them a run for their money thought that that the Rockets were were a bad matchup and they made pretty easy work of both those teams. So maybe I don't know maybe it's the Lakers Destiny too long to get this done and done in the in this asterisk written finals. But yeah, I'll say I'll say the Lakers in six and the Western Conference Finals. And what happens to the Clippers now? I think that I mean is. Going to try and jump ship and get and get a better job somewhere. That would be that would be on brand but I don't know I think cuz for one more season they kind of money. Who who's who's who is it much res is a free agent. Yeah tries a free agent. But Marcus Morris is a free agent. That's pretty much it. I think they're running everyone else back there. I think they try and do it. I think they just run it back one more time. And and I will see it's just crazy of that, you know after all all I gave up, you know, and and again like someone made the point on Twitter tonight that it's not that they give all that up for Paul George. They gave it a for Paul George and quiet because koi wasn't going to come unless George was coming with him. But but you give up what you what you what you did to bring Paul George on and and quite can leave again after this next year, right? You don't lock him in for more than two years. It's kind of a Guinness. Not that I mean, he's in a way so you would think that we're in a word you're going to go from here right how crazy if you want to get with his career does he really loves to write each other teams that often? But the same time like, you know, he's probably be calling the shots out there this offseason so will be interesting to see who he who he wants back and who has shown the door. Do you think you'd like to play with the Jays? I mean probably You could have played with one of them. You couldn't play to both of them a couple of years ago were last season. I should say. Yeah, I don't think the C's will have that kind of. That Capital to bring him in but it could be a suddenly very interesting trade market this offseason all across the league team always has no matter what there's always Bonkers but this others don't have to worry about that right now. They have to worry about getting ready for game two, which will be Thursday night. Thursday will be back with you guys after that one price sometime on Friday to break it down in the meantime hit us up at winning plays pot on Twitter at Rich and revine a priority robbal play stuff up on Boston Sports show.com, and maybe we'll get a cameo from Like Pina here who is dead. Literally the big the busiest man on Earth right now. It's great and out great stuff across the board for GQ. We get New York Times book review today just to me. It was everywhere the clouds with the New York Times wage. For you, mr. Mr. Everything so definitely check mike out there as well and but he'll be check a little series too. So in the meantime, thanks for listening and we will catch you guys on Friday.

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98: Celtics Trade Value Power Rankings: 2020 offseason edition

Winning Plays

1:06:20 hr | 6 months ago

98: Celtics Trade Value Power Rankings: 2020 offseason edition

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network the leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. Hello and welcome in to another edition of the winning play podcasts from is Brian Rob and I am thrilled to be joined by our special off-season co-host filling in for Rich Levine. Hopefully for at least next month is rich is taken care of a new additional family member and don't eat the most frequent guest hosts on the wing play Spot and hopefully we're just trying to slowly turn juice into a semi permanent one. Thank you for coming aboard sir. Thank you for inviting me to spend the offseason with you wonderful folks. Congratulations to Rich. I don't know if you don't know if she had had the baby not had the baby yet or not. But either way congratulations. Yes, we are waiting. I think he's on standby at the moment. So by hopefully by the time he's listening to this month. Cry 3 weeks from now and when you think here of the new edition and like obvious he's off today, Mike skeena has a very exciting stuff in coming off you so very much sense related. So we'll probably back to join us. Hopefully the next week or two, but stay tuned for that in the meantime Ryan we have I think hopefully by the end of the month here, we'll have a better idea of what type of NBA season offseason we're looking at once like it. Yeah the goal right by the end of the month. Maybe they kind of have to if the draft is going to be until November like that's kind of a hard deadline there. You'd think they can move that but I it sounds like they're pretty locked in on that November 18th date. So long will get into more nitty-gritty stuff. But in the meantime, you know, you've you obviously have written a lot about Celtics offseason possibilities on a danger car plug. I just went through some as well on Boston Sports journal with The Celtics trade value Power Rankings where I kind of look across whole roster and figure out you know, who has value run a leak and who doesn't try to rank them. So today we're going to start to go through some of the more interesting games on both Wireless and make sense of essentially what you know, how much value these guys have are the Celtics wage willing and he was on the table who's now the table to be moved this offseason for the Celtics and who knows maybe we'll throw around I guess fake trades are pretty popular right now Ryan. I know if you've like come across any way. I've never seen a fake trade anywhere, you know, I think it's potentially something that the internet could like but never sitting around there. Just I don't know you would I can be a fans would enjoy them but I guess it's just not not really there thing. So, I don't know what's going to happen here. We're going to walk through walk through all the guys on the roster and we're going to talk about like four or five of them mostly. Yeah. So emotional birth Hey lost over a little bit more than the than some of the others. But uh, yeah, we can we can give the give the roster a once-over for for trade fund and then and thought if we if we make up fake trades just hopefully know the listener like hold us to too many of the details cuz this is not prepared stuff. Right if some of the contracts don't exactly line up just assume that we're like closing down where they could make these things work. So nobody sent me back something I'd be like, you can only take back a hundred twenty-five percent of the outgoing and you came up with 128% and so give us a little bit off for the listeners. But yeah, we we can run the rule over all these guys and and then you can try to sell me on Marcus Smart trades and I'll try to sell you on Gordon Hayward trades and will agree that nothing will happen at the end. And so I said, yeah, okay. So let's We'll start with number one the list. I mean, we're not going to say much time here. It's Jason Tatum. He has been at the top of the list for 2 years running now and wage is I mean, the only question here is like who would you can you is like, how many do you have exactly? Like how many fingers can you know, how many guys is it two hands of players that you you know train of thought it just one hand because I mean if you're if you're including contracts one one person doncic, I don't know. Who else that is. Well, I mean you can walk through it Yiannis one year left and too much of a risk, right Anthony Davis free agent now and would just if you traded for him in some magical format, he would just turn around and go back to the to the Lakers game pardon too much money LeBron to LeBron, you know, you're not going to trade him for maybe you would I don't know maybe some people would trade him for LeBron Zion. Maybe I don't know who are the other. Yeah. Yep. Right like yeah. I only you can put Zion there yet. Like you'd not really can't you can't you know, that's that works out nicely because of the money but you know from a health standpoint and obviously mr. Development standpoint. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why I liked y-yeah requires money. Really? All George is one of your left Steph Curry. That's the injuries Katie injuries and age right, like legitimately, right? It depends on what team you're dealing with obviously all of these things. It's hard to set a trade value on these guys cuz it's different values for different different circumstances. But with Tatum It's relatively straightforward that he might he might be like second. He's probably no worse than what fourth or fifth on league-wide ranking which is that's that's pretty impressive. So this is the one I think it's sort of obvious and in his age group would trade it for right? So, I'm sure that'd be a fun phone call by now, but that's again. That's this is the biggest development of Celtics past season, obviously Tatum, you know get a job. That spot where we can have this conversation that say that yeah, you know unless you're you know, even for a super duper Star when you factor in the contract like, you know, it's just in the age and everything else you're not going anywhere. So that's that's pretty big for this franchise going forward. And now I think when you're looking at the rest of this roster now, it's simply who fits best around him in the future of one of the great things there. Is that everybody in the league Fitz would just like there's so there's who can you imagine around lead to be like just doesn't fit right? There's so many guys who are one of the things that limit them from going from being, you know, the 15th best player to the to an MVP candidate or makes it difficult to build a team around them is that they're difficult to fit in with the you know, they don't necessarily fit with every other player small small guards. Don't forget other small guards or you know, Ben Simmons, you have to have the right kind of shooting around them or if you have a post-up center. You can't have other as like you can't have too many Jayson Tatum's which is a nice dog. Of think his is value all around. So easy easy for the rest of it. How do you build around Jayson Tatum get other good players, but you need the right ones off roof, right? All right, so that brings us what's going to number to here on the list Jaylen Brown who is signed now for an extension kicking in next season is signed for the next four years at a nice even with the decline of the of or the potential to Kleiner the stay flat of the tire which still going to be good contract still blowing Max for his experience and probably honestly the only extension signed only Ricky extension assigned last year that she looks like a good cut or looks like a great contract now siakam was that but after that posted and I think that's back to you will see on that. The only question I have about the contract. Now is would you rather they have given him a five-year Max? I think you have to say yes, like you get the whole boat right? Like we do have rather had that than four years at a little bit less. Cuz if you go five you have to give the whole Max so you can't give you know, there's no you're not allowed to structure a contract with less than the max four or five years of a guy coming up rookie scale. And that's the one question. I think you have with them and that's obviously a good position to be in where you're saying like, oh boy. Did we get too much of a discount here if pay them more and been able to go longer. So yeah, I think he's the first of the real conversations around sort of trade value. Right? Like we said Tatum's in that upper tier. There's only a few guys who even talk about with Jaylin there's more options one of Jacob's here again, another guy who's pretty easy to fit into any roster and particularly one with with a Tatum so good for the Celtics probably more valuable to the Celtics than to some other teams, but I'm not the kind of player at this point where like if a superstar is disgruntled or in a bad situation as looking to leave then he's like the centerpiece of that trait, right? So if the Bucs decide that they need to move Yiannis, You it would be there every team in the league would think about what they're going to offer under those circumstances, right? But like a trade built where the number one piece and is Jaylen Brown is not like wildly out of touch with what other teams would be offering even for a player of that level and then you talk about otherwise, you know, sort of hardened what's going on in Houston all all that kind of level player and it's like yeah twenty-three-year-old Jaylen Brown averaging twenty points with four hours on his contract is a reasonable part to be talking about within those conversations and maybe already was cuz the you know, there was talk about him being used to try to get Kawhi before he went to Toronto wage. Like that's it's another really good development over the last couple of years to have a guy who's like in the maybe it's not the top tier of of trade pieces around the league, but he's not like, you know, second-tier third-tier. He's not not that far down that list so It's a good position to be in for sure. No question. And like I said that he gets them into any conversation first start because of that. This is a kind of off to the Celtics haven't had in the last four or five years of like the the young emerging star locked up for multiple years, which is you know, how you know. Okay C or how you know the Pacers sent Paul George 2. Okay see cuz they got old people back on pretty much the same deal and that was pooh-poohed at the time and you know, Jaylan accomplished a lot more than what Oladipo had at that point. So that again like you said Harden I think is the real name to keep an eye on Down the Line not this offseason. But if things go sideways down there in the middle of next season, which they very much could depending on, you know, given the lack of flexibility and you know Improvement internal Improvement options they have that will be the one the buck. Giannis, you know that the chatter there is like I feel like that's died down now and I think Milwaukee seems to be like we're going to take it to the end of sin, but you know, which wage really blame him for no. I mean I that's what I've been advocating for and I think most other people who reasonably can look at them and say like what are you going to like? You're not going to get into title contention for decades if you get something as well as well hang out with them for the year. You never know what happens right mid-season maybe actually does start to agitate for it. Although it doesn't seem to to want to be in that position. But I think there's a more interesting phone conversation will get to with a with another player soon in terms of trying to figure out what Claire values are. But yeah Jalen like you said gets you into the conversation you could look around the league and try to find like similar players to his his stature and those trades I think jailing would usually be with the Celtics are prefer. So like would you trade him for Brandon Ingram? No, I don't think so in terms going to make more money here Thursday. Cuz he went to you know, we carried it all the way to free agency and had a good season but like from a selfish perspective. I think they would rather just have Jalen than than Ingram even though maybe some other teams would disagree with that. And so like that's sort of elevating himself down to that level. I think it's been sort of where his development carried through this year. If you're trying to figure out players that you you know, that maybe around the league would have greater value than him sort of similar age. You're like, I don't think wage level of Ben Simmons as a trade piece, even though Simmons is a much more difficult fit. But you know as far as saying like, I don't know exactly what tier of player he'd be in but in terms of that sort of players of similar age, you know, it was like siakam healed all these guys like either haven't been totally different. I mean, he'll don't even know if it's a positive asset. But yeah, I mean, thank you ahead of siakam, especially cuz he all comes like 34,000, um, whatever twenty-six twenty-seven but you know, I had to see how come my head of like I said ahead of Ingram behind Simmons sort of that that sort of range certainly behind Tatum like we said, That's why another readings but that's a big jump from even where he was a year ago. Certainly where he was when he first came into the league. I'm always behind on on Jalen. I am beats my expectations every single year. I have some sort of blind spot within that I don't have with with Tatum. So every year he he was better than I think which is Longley that continued I think it's just like the month. I do think he's a long way behind Tatum defensively still and I already and he made some Headway in that area, but we saw, you know in this postseason, especially when just guarding guarding siongco needed really good job overall in that series, but you know just it's always going to be the awareness for him is going to be you know, is this going to be continuing they need to work on to get to that wage? Yeah, and they're very different Defenders frequent, you know that they're similar size and all that but Jaylynn for one thing I think gets harder assignments and that's going to continue on probably for the rest of month. Careers as long as they're together cuz as Jason take some more offensive responsibility, you know spend be able to spend less energy on on the other end. And so Jalen's ability to be a primary defender on more difficult assignments. I think month becomes more important Even If you're sort of looking at the impact metrics and all that and saying like no Jason's a better Defender Jalen takes on some pretty big assignments and I think that that is an important factor in a team just having a guy that you can credibly put on some of those really dominant wings. But yeah, I mean, he's you put him on him. He's not the best defender of those wings in the league but credibly being able to that is still extremely valuable and part of why like he's ahead of like I said, maybe I had a Brandon Ingram who has different abilities on the offensive end, but you don't say the same thing about him where if he's defending some of those big really dangerous wings like you'd be in trouble with jail and he can at least hold his own so it's all good. It's all been good development for him. No real complaints. They're growing think Jalen. I mean just looking back at the number. Posey's and especially in that he series we was very much underutilized defensively and part of that goes to the zone that the Miami played too kind of like, you know funnel shots to where they wanted them to go in spurts of those games, but I think that's the underrated part of Jalen is that he consistently in the postseason, you know off of times you see the a big, you know efficiency dropped off for guys that has not happened for him. You know, the three-point shooting has come and gone but he was very very good when he got chances by and large and he probably deserved more chances in that series and he got and so that's they'll be watching to see how going forward how they wage if that's you know, obviously Brad Stevens runs a pretty free, you know Wheeling offense in terms of guys taking opportunities when they're there when I think getting him In better spots and more often when against good matchups, you know will probably be a priority going forward. I would I would hope yeah, I think one of the other things that to note in there is that that's been good for a couple of years even what to two seasons ago his and his second season in that Series against the Bucks before he before he got injured. He had a 30-point game. I think right at the meeting series like he's had some really good performances and that's I think something that comes into play and some of these other ratings where how do you balance the difference between guy, you know, the famed eighty-two game player or 16 gameplay or like how do you balance guides? He can can do it in the postseason with some reliability versus guys who may be more regular season players in Jalen's that's showing that he can do in both one of the things about that utilization. I think that also is is part of it is that you're playing a lot through Tatum and for all the his development that was showing on Outlook now, he can suddenly make this new type of pass that we haven't seen him do before and having five business again, like he isn't a natural playmaker at this point and some of that is like Being able to recognize how to get your teammates involved and how to get them the right shots. And if you're playing through a twenty-two-year-old wing who had never had more than four assists, you know in a in a regular season before you're going to struggle with that a little bit Thursday. It's not like they had Chris Paul running the team on a lot of these games. It was it was Tatum instead and so over time that might just improve from sort of how those things play out and how they they develop as players. But the way they can both do it in the playoffs is a huge part of why they're wanting to on this list. The wait is finally over football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline been online is going the extension to make sure you can get it on everything imaginable the season from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props that online gives you more options to wager than any place online. You can get it on their season-opening bonuses wage day and start off wagering on wind vision and Championship Futures as well had to bet online today to take advantage of all the grade signup bonuses BetOnline your online Sportsbook experts the coupon to 3, though. On a 3 which I I wasn't really hard to me to put Marcus Smart right here. He obviously isn't that in the pecking order on the roster. But when you talk about just his contract which still has two years left with average of fourteen million dollars for those last two years that's you know, pretty good bang for the buck off and that's not necessarily case for Kemba Walker or Gordon Hayward right now. So smarts number three here for me with that said he's I mean realistically is probably not going anywhere this offseason. Just knowing how much the front office up to ownership is a huge fan of him understandably. So for his defense versatility and obviously getting the recognition that he's probably deserved for his entire career in terms of all available defense. but Ryan, I mean well, first of all, what's are you? willing to we'll put him on the table in any sort of, you know realistic offers this year or do you think that's it's going to be taking away too much from you just for a defensive standpoint for this team to even you know, consider it. You consider anything it's hard for I mean, I've openly a fan before anything else right? I'm not a a seasoned media professional who has to give up. My fandom name is basically my favorite player here here Paul Peirce and like my life. So I am not rational when it comes to these things. I can admit that. I think you're right having in third the evidence of that is maybe there are people who are credibly talking about whether or not you could trade him for the second pick in the draft, right? So this the second this is a bad draft by all accounts, but the second pick is a thing that you would not normally associate with faith man, you know, making mid-teens money, right? Like that doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the sort of structure of what we're used to but Marcus is not a normal six-man his contract is obviously a good value off the team that's in that has the second pic is not a normal team to have a second pick other than the fact that the Celtics have been making the Conference Finals and picking in itself three recently as well. But to put all that together, I think you're right having an at 3 a.m. It's difficult for me to imagine a circumstance where they would trade him right now, but I don't think it's like completely impossible to imagine. This is not a Jayson Tatum situation where you're talking entirely and just life hypotheticals what would happen if you they called about. Just write like you can imagine things that that might work out with Smart in a different way. It would be the fit for anybody you traded in for would have to be considered there. But honestly if you're like if you're trading smart, it's probably part of some kind of major overhaul here. It's hard to think about like what you would do to trade in for a player who makes similar money that fits in better. I don't know if that that player exist. So I don't know if you got ideas. I'll I'll listen but it's like now, you know, I don't want to trade him cuz I love them. So I make it rains a lot of nose. But this is what I mean. I'm going to write in more depth on here, but I'm going to slip off a couple of few here and like and I There's no denying his value to the team in terms of You know, despite the the words that we saw, you know during that he'd series and which were partially due to injuries and not being put in spots where he wasn't suited best for obviously in terms of shooting and trying to do too much offensively. So for me the cage trading or considering trading him. I don't honestly think they're going to find the right deal to do a but like this is probably is going to be his Peak trade value of his career. Is that a like a fair when you factor in the contract? Yeah. So this is contract likely be bigger and Brian or if it's even with the Celtics at all first team all-defense. Yeah, that's probably right. So that's and so if you are worried about, you know the cost burden to keep him in a couple of years, which is a concern if you especially if you want to bring back Hayward on a reduced number, you know, Campbell will be coming off the books at some point but dead. Yeah, I mean, you're not gonna be able to keep your not going to be able to keep any everyone unless you know ownership is willing to pay up the nails which there you know understandably wouldn't for for all those guys home. So if you find the right, so here's a couple of things to throw at you for a defensive standpoint. This is one where you may be maintained some that and get a better shooter Marcus Smart. For an asset whether it's a draft pick or somewhere decent player in Patrick Beverley know and you're going to say that pep rally is a Jerk It's off the team. I've had enough of playing of having people on the team who I don't like and don't want to root for a pet really is a jerk jerk hard. Mm. I like that. I like that trade-off. Okay, this is going for you know, the young route building a team around your youth Marcus Smart former Junior. More interesting. That's obviously a huge swing. I don't think Denver does it so probably not that would be tempting for them in terms of going for now since defensive value of Smart & Marie. I mean, that's yeah. I mean, I think it would get Harris there anyway, and they're probably over here is stunk this last year. You can't shoot and not upgrading at the market smart and you don't know if he'll be able to shoot either. He was Gary Harris was very good defensively, you know in in the playoffs once he once he was able to take the floor, but he has not been able to shoot this year at all. He isn't the playmaker smart, but my point is more is the upgrade from Gary Harrison, Arkansas because you can't play all three of them together or you just have three guys who are six four. Is that upgrade for Michael Porter Jr. I just can't imagine it never does it from the Celtics perspective. It would certainly be interesting for Porter Jr. On draft night, but they couldn't, you know to move up together, but it off. Particular to deal with big jump up. Yes, they got about 19. You know, I'm sorry. That's curious. I think I'm like 13 me. Look this up on a 16 16. We split the difference here. I don't remember maybe you're right maybe stick to anybody can be fourteen said again. I don't know somewhere in their mid-teens like 14 for it yet. But that was when that was the year when the song 27, right? So you have to yeah, they would have to put the Memphis pick on the table or the sacramental pig which at that before we knew what it was before it right, which would have a good deal now, but you know back then like they were on a premium premium selections of that point. So that's that's a tough one. Now this something I've been talking about other draft trades like that would have been uh, if they thought that Michael Porter Jr. Was the third-best player in the draft or something. Then you might get into a month Justice Winslow situation where you're you're not trading up for the 14th heck right you and your mind you're trading up for the third pick or something like that and you go a little nuts, but obviously it didn't work out. He he's a little scary as a fair wage. Um with the answer is a nightmare. It's a real swing, you know big swing the fact that he's a good rebounder. I think would would help in some ways because he would be probably her former. You don't like Jason and Jaylin both down even interesting said, I just don't think Denver would do it what I do it as a Celtic. In a vacuum taking out personal preference. Yeah, I think you would have to do that. But I got one at 1 tonight. I will admit thing to do would be to trade him. I'm not saying that I would trade him. This is why I among many reasons why I shouldn't be the GM of the Boston Celtics. All right. This is I'm going to skip over. Yeah, I keep something to reserve for 33 reserve for later cuz I'm going to have tripped over to my side I can be quick now is because you don't want to surprise you in a later calm. All right, here's another off the wall one. That is probably unknown. But this is like an ultimate one now move. But with the ability to keep this guy long-term, I wouldn't do this. But yeah, so smart and expiring contracts Canter. Other stuff to make the get the money up there for gobert. Yeah, gobert is once the market is sippy when she's not going to get so it's like okay, you know, they get the supermax from Utah. Maybe like it wouldn't surprise me if somebody Max them out really it's next year when he's a free agent, right? Yeah. I just don't think like like Andre Drummond all yeah, I mean everybody's got to spend the money down there. He's going to be five times, you know, all defense. Whatever will be at that point. Somebody will spend the money on them. I don't think it would be the Celtics would want to spend the money on them. And so you really would be pushing A lot of a lot of on the table this year and my problem with that is that I don't think the roster construction of the Celtics want is to spend that much money on a center I go again if you were starting a team for June next year not again a different construct now, right if you were starting an expansion team for next year and you could pick between smart or Globe are you would take over there, but I don't think the Celtics would be positioning home. Well by doing that unless Hayward. Opted out and re-signed for a long contract a different money. And like you said you were like under some pressure to shorten the money that was on the books and pushing around a little bit. Like you can come up with some multi move situation. I really care. I guess maybe you could argue for it, but gaubert. I don't want to be in a business angle. X contract. I don't either I just think it's going to be a lot less than people think it's going to be I think for when there's that much money out there if there's I've said said a million times before there's a salary floor. Mm. I only usually a lot of money out there next two years. I think this this cap is going to be flat for a couple of years and games going to do that. If they do that, they're setting themselves up for problems. They have that have it some amount of increase year-over-year or they risk coming out of this on the other side with too big of a cap jump like they have to scale in some amount of increase and then if they need to flatten it back out afterwards, like when they took her idea of what the business is and start to like take break down and I might be like, they might just do it the by keeping it flat because that's stupid but whatever dumb things happen in this league sometimes like it's that's bad bad idea if that's what they do. But even if they keep it relatively flat like if the Caps a hundred and fifteen next year instead of this year, it's going to be enough money out there where they're going to be teams. Left, you know who wants to spend 30 million dollars on like a guy a center who can't like do anything offensively besides dunk with you. It's a great defender, but I think those kind of guys now are going to get like, you know, 15 to 20 million as I want to do the best way to get more than that. I mean listen gets injured, right but no he's gonna get more that there's 30 teams. He's got some bad teammate label on them too. And you'd like he's getting that little money. I mean he like maybe he doesn't he won't exactly at 35% right? But like oh, yeah, he's not getting twenty million dollars every game on this next. I mean, I guess there are still like I just don't think it's a smart move for any franchise to get rid of him Thirty million dollars. I don't disagree with that, but I don't think that there's 30 smart franchises. I think there's franchises that have to spend the money and that don't have any other way of getting play a game. They can even pretend our stories like he's multiple time all in the multiple time all you know defensive player of the year. He's not going to get eighteen million dollars a year in a market where you've got, you know, twelve different teams with Max cap space like God, that's just not the way it's going to play out. I don't think I would be shocked if he is healthy and gets less than what if what you know, what's what's this for you then twenty five million. 25 million first year salary maybe so four years hundred and ten million, whatever that works out to something like that would be like floral. How old is he 31 to be like pay twenty one is a free agent may not right now. Yeah, he's going to be a free agent next year and he will be he's twenty-eight right now. So I'll be 29 99. Okay. Um, yeah, I just don't I mean It's we've seen me he was first-time All-Star last year, but we've seen time all NBA wasn't he? Yeah, but like I don't think again I think his choice but his limitations have been very prevalent in the postseason. I understand. So what you might not have so not only do you not have 30 smart teams. You don't have 30 teams that are trying to honestly win the NBA title. Like it would Maxim right now. If they could they would they love to have them. Oh, we have a solid our Center problem and we can go and pretend that we're going to threaten for something like there's absolutely teams out there that are that would especially out of out of hopefully out of covid-19 R2 get fans. They need to have some sort of interest and they need to start making money again. Like you don't think there's you know, there would be teams out there saying if we want to put faith in these in these Arenas and get them back into our sport like we need to do something and where to go and sign the multiple time defensive player of the year. I'm I just would be shocked if he doesn't get big money go Bears not putting but it's not winning games though winning games put some butts in the seats. It's this here, but again like I mean like a guy like Drummond, what is Drummond going to get next offseason month in which is worse he is but how much is he? Is he 50% worse? Yeah. Yeah, okay is notably worse. This is the this has become the Rudy gobert Celtics podcast. So maybe she can find out and this is I mean, this is a trade on this point. But yeah, I think I think the value of like the gobert is the world is this going to start coming down more and more it's already started to but especially short supply and supply and demand around the NBA now like I don't think I mean like you said there are always dump teams out there, but I think they're becoming fewer of I just hope there's not a supply of em go bearz now, there might not be a huge amount of value in it, but there is not a supply of defensive player of the year who can also do something to help your offense like that. There is a supply I agree that their supply of Andre Drummond's there's Andre Drummond's and Hassan Whitesides and whoever else, you know, and that sort of that sort of world to put up some numbers but like they are not on the same. There's a a wide Gap and it's exponential in Georgia. Impact on an actual team between those guys to me. So I agree that that Drummond is, you know needs to opt-in and he's not going to get paid nearly as much as the next contract but I think gaubert unless he has a big fog of next year isn't a different different category player. So if contracts were not a factor you would trade smart for globe are in terms of like postseason like, who would you rather have it a Post Office Team smarter gaubert not on the Celtics know I would just rather have smart but like on a an expansion team just starting a new team. Yeah, I would take away. Yeah. Okay. That's fair game. Last smart one I have for you. I mean you're going to say no do like Is Josh heard a good Defender? Not really? Right? Like he's just a rebounder. He's not a very good Defender. So like you could do smart for heart and like Redick, but I don't think but that's a month and math move in terms of just giving you extra bench depth, but not solving giving you a big defensive whole so all right. So I got one I got Ryan it's to trade off Smart Ones, but that's a tray. That's not gonna be on the table. Let's go to number four. Campbell I got one for you on this one. I got something for you on this one. All right so hard I think we both agree that it's hard to Value Kemba across the league because it's hard to Value Camp as a Celtics trade asset because of everything else would come home signing a player to a Max contract and training to a year later and sure injury questions and age and what's valued all that? Right? So it's hard to just figure what his value would be also has a lot of money left. There's some teams that just wouldn't be interested because they're trying to keep cap space open for next year cuz they trying to get Yiannis whatever might be so in just trying to figure out value so forget all this stuff about it would be bad publicity to trade or whatever. Would you trade him for Eric Bledsoe and Brook Lopez? Proof, so something's get bigger. They we no blood cells problems in the play-offs, but he's very computer know where to attack you solve the Celtics problem with in terms of size off the other perspective the Bucks. They desperately need a Creator point guard. They have Jonas so they can cover up for a lot of his defensive deficiencies. He would give them a pick-and-roll option also bought a shooting option. Also, we just Shuffle the cards around in a you know, sort of a desperation situation where they really can't come back with blood. So so, where would you put that in terms of just valuing Kemba again without the political stuff right that free for either game or neither team or whatever? I think that's a great regular-season deal. But blood so has been so bad the postseason I still suck at it but it's funny though because Danny Ainge has shown he has no quibbles about dealing with his rivals. If it's the right deal me, it was a mistake the last one he did on that front, but he's clearly not afraid of it. Yeah, I mean, this is the type of Swing of the bat. I think that the office after go for but I still I think blood so is has been so bad in the postseason. So you're just and I would rather have you know in Brook Lopez has a good but obviously has limitations on on that stage as well and against the matchups that he'll have to go through in the Eastern Conference. So so I agree but what I'm saying is that you would not trade Kemba Walker for two all defense players who have as let's over made an All-Star game. I don't think it's right, but I'm Lopez former All-Star was getting some consideration for Defensive Player of the Year this year Bledsoe in the conversation for for all defense, you know, basically every year neither of them are making like out wage. Money, so there are people who will tell you just people who are not fans of Kemba Walker who will try to make the argument that he's a negative trade asset on his contract. I mean, I think it's like I don't think that's the case not yet. But it's I think if the others could do it over right now, he wouldn't have that contract. So I mean, I'm still I'm took the position before they signed him that I thought it was, you know, pretty question a move and that basically where I landed on it was like I don't think it's great. I don't think it's the highest upside play that's out there. But with where Tatum was before this season, and I thought it was reasonable to basically say like we went from having multiple timelines to we trade for Kyrie. We have one time line and now we're in a position where we have no timelines, right? Like all of this is blown up. We don't really know where the franchise is going off and hoping that this was just a weird one season blip for Tatum and that he's going to get back on the track the end of getting back on and so it was fine. Not great didn't love it. But when you're in I'm sort of in the same place. The bat like they're in this little transitional period here. It's not a great contract. He's not a perfect player. He's not a perfect fit if you're trying to win the title, but again we come back to and it's like would you trade him for two planes were starters on a team that was on Pace to win seventy games and then are all defense players. It's not a negative value of contract. Now, I think there are other teams you could trade them to again. You have to get rid of the politics from it with the Knicks taken. I don't know they wouldn't heartbeat. I think they would take him. They need a point guard. Like I know they want to keep you know, some amount of cap space open for flexibility, but your kid all that but even just the fact like how their team is structured. I thought they would take him and give assets back for him. Just basically taking the cap space. I think there are other teams around the league that would certainly, you know, give real assets back for it too. So I I think that he is properly rated again here at Fourth package is behind smart who said, you know, you could make real trade offers for because it was contract but he's not he's not a negative asset at this point which again like, you know, you hear that on that's really good wage. Give them away. I would give them away and you're like if you wanted to give away you wouldn't have to like you would get something back for him. Yeah there but the fact that we wouldn't do that trade I think is is telling that he has value to the Celtics real real important value them Celtics as well. Yeah, like if you're going to move him, I want to you want to make sure you're getting something back that you can trust to play in in games in the playoffs. And Eric Bledsoe is not found in Brook Lopez. Is that sometimes and there are several tell you that Kemba isn't either because you can attack him, you know, because he gives you an obvious place to attack defensively. I think that that trade-off works out fine. I don't think he was a hundred percent. I think that that was sort of obvious that he was breaking down a little bit as the playoffs went along that would be a question for the future. Can he make it through a full playoff run without breaking down if he didn't have a specific injury, he's not dead. He doesn't, you know, he's not going for a knee surgery liked ice it or anything. So it wasn't anything obvious that needed to be be fixed. So maybe this is just the thing that will always be a problem but there are certainly people who look at and say Kemba is a liability at the very very top dog. Playoffs as well. And so would you trade, you know make that make that move but those are all three guys who like are not bad players, right you're talking about in in that sort of Swap. And so the point just being again like with you if you would make that specific trade there is no reason that people should be out there being like you have to give them away to get get rid of that content right now. Keep started the All-Star game like yeah, I would agree with you 2% And that's again the the version we saw him in the first half of last season is you know, this others clearly believe that players still there if they can just get enough and that's going to be the priority this offseason. I know that Canada is also tight with Tatum just in general so you wonder from a positive standpoint as well as to how much that would factor in a yeah, it's all a little bit of a line. This is all very more theoretical with him than some of the other players because from a number of perspectives, it would be very difficult to just imagine them trading him even with you know ages ruthless all dead. But you just can't really see then they're going to trade him, you know one year into signing up to a Max contract when he did everything that they asked him to do and who's a parent, you know, by all accounts. Everybody loves them so long. I don't think he's going anywhere. All right next up at number 5, it will start going this is prior last big discussion Gordon Hayward. Yeah. I mean, I'm on record like thousands of words. Yes. So here's my question for you. You want to guess and you if off like how much he's we're how much he's made in his career. including next year it will be and it has I mean, it's nearing a hundred eighty million dollars. Yes. So it's a hundred Forty-Eight right now and that's going to go up to a hundred eighty-two. Yeah, see it right option package. Um, do you want to guess where he ranks in NBA history in terms of earnings? Like 15 actually know so it's like he is 47th right now and he's here though. It'll be for next year will be the top 30. Okay, so not quite fifty so I bring you one. I think a g a g I think. Oh no Westbrook with well, it's hard if you're including guaranteed money in the future, I think it'll yeah, I think he will be it will be Westbrook but it's kg right now. I think so. Yeah, this is all that's spotrac. You don't have to look it up. Yeah, but so I bring this up since I do think I mean when we talk about a situation this offseason or like, you know with the extension I want to make money, but Is money going to be the number one factor for him? My fault on this is that it's a number one factor everybody until they tell you that it's not by signing a contract where it's not right, but but this is actually a white have them back on a different really my first option for him that he opts out and re-signs or signs and you know stays in this here and signs an extension at much lower money L. You can't you can't have decreases big enough for it to be worth it for the Celtics system to do an extension of thing. But God it's that ideally yeah opt out and re-signed to a more team-friendly contract and say great. I don't want to get rid of him cuz I think he's a bad player. I just think it's a big risk to Carriage that one season of contract and then, you know potentially get burned at the end of it. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to know I mean there's others have to have a read this off season in terms of what month what he wants. And it's complicated obviously with where the the free-agent Market is going to be the next year since there is going to be some unpredictability. They're on based on what happens next season. You've brought up obviously the the escrow discussion in terms of media being easier to get to extension because you know, if the NBA's withholding 30% of my salary this. And that's you know, you're not technically trained out 34 million train at twenty-five. So it's easier to make that up on the back end in that case from I wonder though on that front to like dead. I bet the escrow is not going to be a 1-year thing like of a big escrow like withholding no practice most this year, but that's that's you know, obviously that can be I think that's that's going to like go a few years down the line. So the question there though is the the escrow is a withholding right? You can get it back at the end of the year. So if if even if they set it up to Thursday, we're going to have larger withholdings for the second year if things are back to normal and the revenues go way back up to where you know closer where they were even if they withhold 30% the first year and 20% the second year like you might they may hold 20% and then give you back quite a lot of that right if if the business is a q u can only say how much you're going to withhold but then you don't actually know what the situation is going to be the end of the year. So it's a little complicated on that front. I agree. It might very well be that they set off a high escrow for the first year and then a medium escrow the second year, right and we're at all it all plays out that way and you are not you're never going to make up all of the money because of escrow Readjustment. It's just kind of like are you giving up Fifteen million dollars or ten million dollars, right like or five million dollar like you're still giving up some amount of money in there. But if he's not willing to give up anything then he's going to be here for one more year and then leave unless you trade him because or unless it gets hurt again or has a terrible year where you don't want to bring him back or something like that. Really? There's there's not a situation where he plays well next year in his a $15 player and comes back for $50. Like if he's an 18-6 and six guys going to get more than $15 and I can be able to afford him then you just gotta deal with that. Exactly. So it's I guess it's the question for him. You know, the suburbs need to get three. Is saying, okay like you can is he okay with being the fourth option here. That's something you think he wants to do for the long-term. Obviously affect your third option on certain nights. It's not like he's going to be but he's obviously not going to be getting the shots in a production that he could get elsewhere or does he, you know, does he want that opportunity somewhere else, you know at home room money. Now there there's probably not going to be a lot of teams that are going to give him more than you know, twenty twenty-five million dollars. Even if he does have a good year next year in next year's open market. But if the Celtics kind of fill life that he is, you know wants that kind of a role then they have to I think anticipate that and then, you know move on from him before he has a chance to walk and there's no part of that problem is that there's no dead. Like there's no title contending a really good team that can give him that role at this point his career. Probably right plus he has like a great year and comes back right if he if he wants to go and content somewhere else and write down keep hoping their cap space to go after Yiannis. They don't get youngest. They look around one of the something we talked about with with Tatum and brown is that like you can play them on any team? There's not really situation where it's like, he won't fit with us. Oh guy who can handle the ball and defend and shoot threes. Like he'll fit on any team you could slot him into it to to Dallas, but he would not be the first option. They were either right? So anywhere that he goes home. He wants to be the first option is either going to be a bad team or he's going to have to be a tertiary sort of sort of play around a really good team. And so if that's what he's looking for then that's the problem you run into but it's really have faith in you know, this he he's in control of the situation unless the Celtics decide that they want to trade him, which is obviously something that excuse me. I have a little bit of a cough something that I've wage. And advocated for not cuz I think he's bad but because I think he's good and losing him for nothing would be a problem. We've already seen this. Like that good news here with Hayward to your point is like there's not a an outpour for a situation waiting for him in a year where he can get the money and the chance to content either either. Org right? He's really there might be an outdoor favorite bedroom. But what right the one that he thought he had to choose a good time. I should say. So yeah, that will be I mean, we'll see you can have those will find out a lot more from that front. I think he does have to hop in you know, he has not stopped him before the draft, I believe so I you know any of the dates that they're going to set for this but right normally Monday between those draft the day before free agency or something like that. Yeah, but this could be I mean If he if there's always want to keep them it is very much in their interest to I think I mean in terms of flexibility next year to obviously get them to that extension get his that thirty-four million cut by at least ten million and then that opens up the door for more flexibility elsewhere. So we'll go more into like trades on this in the next month under him. So possibility is since I know you had a a bunch lined up and we can get sort of talking about more as the deadline gets closer. But for now, we'll leave it at that age and try to roll through the final ten players on the roster in about 10 minutes here Daniel theis number six. It's funny. Like it's a great value contract. I really see no situation where the Celtics because you're just not going to get good value. It's five billion dollars. He's a great fit great continuity on this team, you might you know obviously could walk next year. You might not be able to want to afford to keep them. But you're not going to get anything close to his level of you know production if you move them so long everybody wants to upgrade him, but he's completely Untouchable. So the most Untouchable me on this roster and Christine. Yeah. It's just you know, finally that's why it doesn't it's not much. Let's do it there, especially given the Seas Financial Obligations also work. So that's that number seven. believe it's Grant Williams here and Yeah, I just read that one. I would have Romeo head of them. Don't even you like that upside for sure. Yeah, I mean also he's a wing, you know, what position he is the defensiveness already showed the offensive potential yet before like it right? It's the outside play. The right Grant Williams is certainly a more reliable bet for the future at this point, but I would prefer Romeo month and if I were the Celtics and it was a trade where you had to pick between one of them, I would more likely move Grant than Romeo which you know, sometimes that is really kind of what happens where it's like pick one of these couple guys, even if you give the other key in the option right to pick one, I would I would be taking the upside on on like for there but they're very close, you know splitting hairs a little bit. So Monday, what is it's hard to find a good I mean what type of situation do you move either those guys this offseason Beyond, you know, you have to imagine it's just has to be like Good veteran upgrade, but you don't want to move it for you know an expiring contract obviously cuz the cost control that both those guys provide is pretty important with your if your you know, your payroll planning going forward here. Yeah, it's hard to think of a one, you know, like a one-to-one situation where you would trade them it would be something where you're doing a bigger trade and you're putting them into balance something out. Right? If you're trading Hayward heard of a bigger move and it doesn't quite work out and balance and he comes back and asks you for increased something and you say okay. Well, you can either have the guy we just took 26 or you can have Lankford or Grant Williams. I can I would take line for you know, you can sort of get into that conversation where I think they would have to bring in that I can't really think of a situation where you would trade or again if it's a consolidation trailer if you're trading Fourteen and one of them to move up somewhere in the draft or something like that like you can put some put together some stuff like that, but I'm just generically yeah, I don't expect them to to get traded in any sort of one, you know one for one kind of thing. Yeah, and I guess the other one I could see is when you know, if you are trying to just dump bodies like can't you're poor and you know, you're not you're not putting any of those guys in the deal with a gesture of those guys, but maybe you're getting something useful back. So, you know, but adding those bigger salaries allows you to get to a you know, a higher number in terms of wage a play you can take back but given how well they're both of their value is right now like I mean, I guess Grand has some decent value. He obviously showed some some key play in the off-season with his three-point shooting come around and as you know, the ability to switch defensively arguably could should have been playing more for a lot of that Heat series and then we're on me. I think just this stock cuz the thing is is is wow. So selling any of those guys doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you're getting back. I'm not sure thing for either them. Yeah, I mean granted the kind of player that a team in the Celtics position would be looking to trade for cost controlled versatile, you know come off the bench play multiple roles, like he has more value to the Celtics any would 225 other teams in the league like for is obviously a little bit different that he is more of an upside play and something that you're hoping to develop but God, I don't know. Like I said there I don't expect either of them to to be in any kind of one-on-one for one trade. It would be I can only imagine part of something bigger. The only other thing I can think of with with language is some other team that really loves them and offers a pic. Two years down the line for him. Like would you consider that and sort of Kick the Can down like you could I could make some sort of coherent argument for it, but I that kind of trade doesn't ever happen. So but that's where I'm we set his value is off some kind of a you know, oh a top 10 protected pick in 2023 or something like that where you maybe could could do some sort of balance in terms of what the Celtics need to roll assets forward and all that. But again those trades don't actually ever that's not a tray that really ever happened so I wouldn't worry about it too much. But if you're trying to like set asset valuations Like I said with Grant it's just really hard cuz he's the kind of player you need on this team for trying to win next year with Romeo because he's a future peace. You could come up with something like that. Maybe great. All right thumb. I actually had Robin Williams as 8:00 on mine. If even had a Romeo the three of them really go together and weekends is the same the same conversation different balancing a wage in terms of what what you want in terms of what they can provide Now versus in the future position of flexibility how much contract they have left all that kind of stuff you but the three of them sort of our tier together, right? I can line them up through my personal preference. And so I guess the only thing with with Robin Williams now, it's like I think you either have to you have to clear out. You have to play him. Yep, or you have to move him is the opposite of Grant right grant fitzner team exactly Robert. I think fits into the team what they actually need but not what Brad Stevens wants to play but you either gotta play them or you I think about moving them cuz if you just let them sort of waste away on the bench for another season. What is the point of that? So I hope he plays because when he plays the team plays well and I like when that happens, I mean 2% shooting last year pretty good. All right, and now we go into the last four or last five players were looking at no value here Chevrolet and number ten. I mean you can get maybe mid-to-late second round pick late second maybe so but they could easily just let him go if no one gives them that. I don't know that's that option off. I mean all depend a lot on what the team does on draft night and which takes they had to end up taking it also non-guaranteed though, so they can pick it up and then cut them later for no cause I find which is a t mob. No, it's Bullock It's team option on guaranteed. So yeah, that's nice option. They will become an option to pick up the option people go they picked up the option but it's still not guaranteed until the middle of the year. So right again, there's completely no harm done cuz they you you can keep them around. I don't actually know be guaranteed a tan it to be honest. I'd have to go look it up but I think positive for said did the option is red the start of free agency. Yeah. The option is a the option schedule which is the day before free agency begins, right but it is also known guaranteed until I mean I can go look it up, but you making my keyboard clicking away in the background if I do home well and you do if you while you're looking that up it is I do think there are some teams that and we've talked about before and talk about the Pearl exactly. It's just like they're they're play OverWatch go Pittsburgh. James I need defensive upgrade Off the Bench and show me provides that and not much else but that is still a useful tool for home want to be playoff team in the west that has some tough matchups against big wings. So could they guaranteed his guaranteed? It hasn't been been determined Coventry adjusted them yet. So actually don't know when it guarantees but I think it guarantees before the season begins, but after free agency starts got it. Yeah, I think that that is a game. I mean with that package that would be the only reason not to pick up the option. If you're a Celtics buying you taking, you know, like using all like three or four draft picks on draft night and then is you know, well the reason they set up the option is so in case he broke out they can make him restricted. Like that's the purpose of the option is so you can you catch him, right if he had become some super Wing then you could opt him out now making restricted dead. Then re-signing then the the non-guaranteed is the backup backstop on that where they can just pick it up and then see if anybody wants to trade for them. And then if not, you know you move on but there are teenage that maybe we'll see value in getting him for one year instead of having to risk trying to sign him after they cut them like there's no money savings. They already making the minimum for his first experience. So it's not like you can click thing that should be sitting out there wheeling and we'll just sign them later for the minimum. He's already signed the minimum. So just trade for him. If if you really want them don't want to risk it, you know. All right, I have faith has 11:00 on my list. ahead of Carson Edwards Controversy not. I mean catcher you hope that he's just a neutral asset this offseason. He might be a a slight negative depending on what's happens to be the starter cap and the a pretty crowded fridge and Center Market making five million dollars. Best case I think is you find some team-mate Charlotte Portland and needs a backup center can just take him into exactly but yep, which might be dishonest might be perfectly happy if that if that happens. Yeah, the one that there is that the Celtics might be happy having them as their backup center again, but then you put like having him and Rob Williams back I think makes no sense. I agree and yet they might be back. I don't know. Yeah, I I don't think that that would be smart. But I also can't rule it out. I also think that if they do trade and then turn around and spend some amount of money on signing some other veteran big body back up, you know third string for string whatever Center just back off unless they think that you know, Vincent can can handle that role and had a year of seasoning and they're ready to unleash them on the world. I don't know. I I've sort of come around and changed my position as I know wage is like the one you asked me about before was where where if I would put Carson last or not less ahead of this, but if I put in before or after Cantor come around on this little bit, I think there are teenage that would still give a second round pick for Carson specifically the Knicks the Knicks or the team that I keep using in this because of my 1426 and carsen Edwards for 8 trade value in Carson Edwards, as some sort of mid to late second-round back again, the real difference there is obvious that he makes a lot less money even though he's got two more years. It's a little money. It's just easy to fit them into like a lot of trade exceptions and stuff like that that are kicking around so You might be able to get a little bit for him. And then and it's just giving him away the from a a Celtics perspective. If you trade enes into it, you know into a trade exception to cap space you get the 5 million dollars option for him. So like on that balance of five million dollar trade exception that runs into the following offseason is probably more valuable than Carson Edwards being traded for a second-round, you know 50th pick off. So in that perspective, it's still probably more valuable to trade Canter than Edwards even if you get nothing for Canter, but if you don't consider a trade exceptions to be part of the trade, then I might put Carson home but it doesn't really matter. We're talking about the the very end of the ranking to yeah, I mean If if they can get a second round pick for Carson right now than like that would be oppressive as hell in my eyes after 33rd pick right he was but he just did not show any signs of life and I mean again, you know and terrible and it was terrible. It was terrible. I mean and you're in Maine that's the real problem. Nothing was bad for the Celtics right? Like a lot of guys have a control sample size for the Celtics. He was really bad at home and make him a good shot at the end of the year consistent between the game a A month-and-a-half in the rotation, which is more than Brad Stevens gives most turkeys. How many tournaments do you play? I don't know if I would call it Foul Play. I mean, maybe look at this game work for the first So we played in pretty much every game he played twenty one of the first twenty three games to the season and he played had saved over ten minutes and more than happy played 350 total minutes on the season. So I mean they pull them cuz they can like he literally just couldn't he was bad. He was really bad and they they couldn't give any more shots than a healthy obviously, but really I mean, so the problem remains that you can look at a guy took 76° of the NBA level and say, oh well, it's small sample size and sits and that he shot under 30% I think in Maine from 3, like he just didn't make any shots and it's really if you're a you know, six foot two shooting guard and you can't make shots, then you don't really have a place in the world, but I still think he was the 33rd pic. He showed, you know, the summer league flashes where it's still there for anybody not paying attention to the G League. I don't know if some teams like the Knicks pay attention to the G League of other teams and dead. I just think that there might be a team out there again because this contract is so small comparatively like they might say, okay, we'll give you the this future second-round pick for him and God. Yeah, maybe all right, and that's that's pretty much it 13-2 mondegreen great story values and get released Dragon Again release and then 14 is Vincent. You see my Vince theory about how they'll get rid of them know so they haven't spent their cash that they could spend in trades. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, so in they could go to the to the the Grizzlies have for trade exceptions that are all like under seven million dollars. They don't need for trade exceptions that are under each under so you can't combine trade exceptions so they can go to the Grizzlies and say like, hey, we'll give you three million dollars off at your trade exception and then just cut him. Keep gets whatever. We get two and half next year, right like five hundred thirty per-cent less than that with escrow even write like you're going to be over the cap and under the tax no matter what anyway, so it's basically like hey, do you want somewhere between a half a million dollars just to hold this guy for a day and then wave him and then he's off the Celtics books. You don't have to worry about even have to give anything up for him. You know, they may hang on to him to try to make some bigger trade or something like that. But if they want to just get rid of right away at the you know, before this League season ends, they have this 5 million dollars in cash that they can send out so they can just send you know, give three million dollars to the Grizzlies and the grizzly send back a Top fifty five protect the 8th round pick and then take take them and leave them is an easy way to get rid of them if they don't want to try to work some other trade or again, maybe he's amazing in practice and I just don't know it and they're going to use them next year. God knows it's too bad. There's no Summer League this year, too. To find out that break out, but all right. Well, that's it. That's the unofficial Celtics trade value Power Rankings From Myself by Rob and Ryan Burton County. It's official back away. It's official. Yeah. So so put a stamp on that will revisit these once a year. But it's always fun to go through them. And obviously we'll be talking about these guys a lot more in the next month as we continue on the the offseason grind here at Wing Place podcast. We'll have some jobs and coming up for you guys the next couple of weeks. With Brian has a good idea for that. So stay stay tuned on that front. Give him a call at danger cart on Twitter. Follow me at Bryant Arab. You can follow the podcast at winning plays pod. Uh, so hit us up with your thoughts ideas anything you guys want to see as we head into draft and and hopefully trade season may I say when they left a trade route like runs they figure out the salary cap stuff. They'll cry at the end of the month. Once they work it out. They'll lift everything and also subscribe download rate interview. Yes, all those things down to that. What what's our host already ordered 20 minutes while I got you. Got you got to get me if you're interested in for this podcast directly. This is true. This is when we do our best promotion at the end of knowing. All right. Thanks a lot, and we will talk to you guys next week.

Celtics Jayson Tatum NBA Gordon Hayward Kemba Walker Ryan Yiannis Bucks Marcus Smart Andre Drummond Brian Rob Paul George Jalen Ben Simmons Jason Jaylen Brown Eric Bledsoe Boston Sports journal Boston Celtics Mike skeena
89: Seven Questions for Game 7 of Celtics-Raptors

Winning Plays

54:22 min | 7 months ago

89: Seven Questions for Game 7 of Celtics-Raptors

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Welcome back to the winning Place podcast. Brian. Rob is here. I'm rich louvain and no that's not Nick nurse in the corner feet on the court and the biggest possession of the game. It's Michael Pina a grown man who could control himself back for our preview of the sweetest words in sports game 7-3 Raptors, but first guys game six was ridiculous on so many levels oo tea Pina in honor of your return to the winning plays Airwaves. I'm going to give you the first shot here at twelfth two fifty an hour is removed. What sticking with you from game 6 that was brutal the word brutal. That's a great way to sum it up. I mean it was the best game of the bubble so far. I think easily khong vao dang. It had everything that was humongous shots ridiculous coaching decisions absurd missed calls on both ends by the referees wage. Just just this ongoing theme in the bubble so far and it had like a Megastar performance by Kyle Lowry that unfortunately, nobody on the Celtics could really combat or match. Unfortunately. Yeah zero got you got you got to sleep late. We heard you imagine if you had to play a game a game seven tomorrow up late on Boston Sports Journal writing about this game. What is still as you're dealing with this game 6 hangover? What sticking with you? Yeah. I mean you had to like ice like my hands and stuff down just carpal tunnel massage car was exactly I just really big minutes. Yeah, I guess to me just thinking about now is I shouldn't have been at home as I was at this game that this series going seven games cuz I predict cuz like I said before the series began, but immediately went away from it after game one. So to me it was dead. Is a situation where you know the Celtics at least appear to have the better team on paper, but the the the the Kyle Lowry factor and the Heart of the champion Factor has been underrated by some need knee-jerk reactions to every game in the series to me. So at this point a game like this, this is this is probably what everyone would not acted for a series between these two teams the way they've played all year long and we got there in very strange way, but we eventually got there in terms of getting to 7,000 something they can do. Is that legal for Nick nurse to be to be on the court. I don't think so. Right. No and I actually looked up other. So the only time they've actually called this and you can if you want to some fun go on YouTube app, I think Jason Kidd dribbled into Mike Woodson one time on the court and Drew a tech cuz he just was on a fast-break and Woodson was trying to I think it was petitioning the referencing like that but wage. that's really the only time it's actually been called in a game like this, but I don't know like Mike that's I actually went back and look nurse. Does this all the time so this wasn't just like a a spur-of-the-moment tried to get theis office game or team office came here. He loves to hang out in that back corner, and I'm really I don't know if it's is it a bad luck to even care about a play like that now, I don't I don't know. I don't really I mean Tatum after the past just kind of turned around and walked back and I don't think he I don't know what he was thinking or if anyone has asked him about it, but like be personally I don't I don't want to get too caught up in Nick nurse standing in the corner and I don't I think Peyton would have passed it there if it wasn't there though. Yeah, I do. Yeah, that's that's the one it clearly. I think he's this was wide open in the corner. I mean right there you guys wide open. I mean, I think you go for the corner three more than Tai Sao khong taste was wide open in the corner and everybody like I think that that was the read and it was the right pass to the corner and just tastes was like not as deep in the corner as the opponent's head. Which which is a little worrisome, but I mean like in a game that has like a bajillion possessions and all these different awesome nuances and complexities. Like I don't I personally try not to get too caught up in what Nick nurse is doing or how he's trying to aggravate or pump up his own team aggravate the opponent. I don't really care all that much I guess. Okay. Thank you for bringing us back to back to Earth keeping a center here because we don't want to spend too much time bitching about the rest. I'll say the and this is probably the right call wage. But the the play that that's going to be long forgotten just because of the awesomeness of how it unfolded that nine point swing with Van Vliet in the third quarter. That's a big one. I mean, I guess that is a flagrant foul right by the books that that Marcus did get in his space a little bit just I don't know. I think that that was an extent. Certainly the Celtics came back a little bit cuz it forces the two overtimes but that was a point where I think the Celtics were in a position. That was right after we came to his first three. It seemed like the the Celtics maybe you're in a position to to knock em out. I thought that swing was obviously a huge and extending the series. Yeah, unfortunately that I mean they've been calling that very consistently and you know the up and down it's weird cuz like if you don't I don't know how you know, what is defined as the landing space because these guys don't jump up and down like Fred vanfleet kicked his right leg out as he lands and so it's like you're trying to contest it three, which is what the Celtics do so well, but I don't know it's a tough one, but actually it's really fun funny that you brought that sequence because there was actually this other sequence in the I think it was the second overtime that really has I've been thinking about quite a bit and it was Celtics up for I believe and Thursday. At a stop and Jalen Jalen in transition just going right at Fred Van Vleet getting stripped. Kyle Lowry comes back the other way and take a lab and that was just like so huge for me and it was one of those plays where you're watching it live and I was just like what is he doing? What is he doing? What is he doing? Please? Like please pull it out donot just stop off on and I just it was so like foreseeable from a mile away. And so that that one I just like can't get out of my head and it's a bummer. Yeah. I mean they what they had three chances at the end of regulation in a tie game that clearly took the lead and the the first overtime had to fight the way back there. But like you said like that is that's the perfect example and down overtime just over three minutes left up for with football Jalen. Kind of falling into the Trap of just having the tunnel vision there and he was a trip later on he got exactly like right and so it wasn't, you know, he was fantastic in that first happy really bounced back nicely after a brutal game for over the last two nights, but I think Nick nurse when he sees the Box we're after this game is Jaylen Brown is taking three times too many shots is as Kemba Walker and and fifty percent more shots and Jayson Tatum than like it's like, okay, that's the plan worked. We took us a while to get there. But that's what I'm sure the the Raptors coaching staff want to see that's not knocking jail invest just Toronto's I think best chance of Victory Series right now. Yeah, but and you also you can say all that right but at the same time with Jaylen Brown taking 30 shots of Celtics are up for points with the ball and double overtime. Right? So, it's just like at the end of the day. It's still going to come down to those those winning wage raise, right? That's why we're here. Why would he plays talking to sirius by the way, so it's fantastic a lot of winning players when Marcus Smart is is putting up triple-doubles. That's not a game right there. But yeah, I say no matter what happens. It's going to come down to those moments where you can't afford to make the wrong decision and unfortunately Jalen just made the wrong decision right there, but see them dessert. I mean Tim was the mortgage lender. I think late in this game just Factory in that Kemba just had a another not a no-show but clearly didn't have any rhythm after the boxer one strategy. I'm going to have the the past to Nick nurse in the corner and then turning down a three at the in the second overtime meant in the final minute and getting stripped and beige. Just feeling the game. They're like that's you need them to be better there. You need to be better than Lowry there and he he wasn't in this moment. Can you so last night? I thought we you texted us beer in our group text read about you know, what you should be writing about and I texted back something like something about Tatum and and being disappointing and then this morning, you know, I I woke up and I actually re-watched the fourth quarter and both both overtimes and specifically agreed yourself know I don't I specifically like focused on Tatum on every single possession offense and defense off and honestly, I counted two maybe three mistakes that I thought like I give so much credit to the Raptors defensive game plan going back to what you said earlier be wrapped dead. And every time like first of all, he's initiating every single offensive position with Kimba, they're screening each other. They're trying to create mismatches where Tatum will be positioned in the middle of the floor with either van Fleet gallery on him and he's just basically supposed to go to work from there. But the Toronto Raptors are just like in the paint everybody, especially when they went small like home all for help. Defenders are just like, you know, they have one foot on the Block and so or the or the elbow and so they're like, there's no driving lane at all. And I thought that Tatum throughout the end of the game throughout fourth-quarter both overtimes. He was reading the defense pretty well not forcing things and when he did first things that's when you know, there was the drive where he was not shot ready and tries to drive the clothes out Norm Palace trips him. That was one of the most egregious mistake wage. There was a play where he put his head down and turned the corner and Pascal siakam. And then the Raptors defense completely collapsed on him and he tried to find tights under the hoop with a drop bounce pass and it was just misdirected and that led to a turnover and a bucket the other way, right? But otherwise like he was assisting Corner 3s or potential assisting Corner threes that the Celtics just missed and wage kind of get it like tip your cap to the defense and I guess if you're Brad Stevens, you got to figure out a different way to get Tatum going downhill in particular. I think it's another thing when in a game where he I wonder how different that would be down the stretch if it's a game where he doesn't start 146, you know, I mean if he comes out a game and he's he's and he's hitting threes right in and if maybe I don't know do you think that's true changes a little bit if if his Defender has to maybe play him a little bit closer if they're a little bit more worried about him. You're always worried about Jayson Tatum hitting his shots, but when he shows you that earlier in the game, I wonder if that changes things. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean that's that's something that both sides of thing are going to be thinking hard about in terms of how to handle games step and then and with the lounge staying out, how do we get to him going and those good spots early and nurse figuring out? Okay, is is Tatum or Campbell going to be the first guy we want to take away and just kind of off Justin's ready for those calendars. It's going to be it's going to be fascinating. I mean given how the series has gone. It'll probably either be down the buzzer or like a thirty Point blowout in either Direction. That's that's what I feel confident about in games playing games having right now. All right. So before we talk about game seven guys, let me tell you really quick the wait is finally over football's back. Actually tonight. We're recording us on Thursday. You might not be able to be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action a bit online but online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on everything imaginable to season from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props off. Online gives you more options to wager than any place online. You can get it on their season-opening bonuses today and start off wagering on wins Division and Championship Futures head to bed online today and take advantage of all the great sign-up bonuses, but online your online Sportsbook experts and okay game 7 preview. We don't want to live live in the past fantastic game six. Obviously, the ending could have been a little bit sweeter off but moving on to game seven and I'm going to give you guys seven questions for game seven seven issues. That might I don't know might not affect it. There are some bigger picture questions, but we're going to go through it and within that conversation, I think we can hit on wage a lot of what we've seen from the past six games in general in this in this series. So my first question I'm going to give this one to Pina to start. So a friend of mine said last night is a great players to find great games. I think that we can say without without question the games the Raptors have one. Kyle Lowry has defined those games. I don't know. It's been a sort of a group effort from the Celtics, but I think when it comes to game seven wage, Kemba or Tatum who are the southeast counting on more to Define game 7 You know, I think it's really interesting that Nick nurse in game six with you know, it's elimination game. This is the kitchen sink scenario for Hammer staff. Like they basically started out and played throughout the game box and one against Kemba Walker. I mean, he was a clear focal point for that staff and a clear reason, you know, he'd Nick nurse admitted to this afterwards a clear reason why they wanted to go small in crunch time and off in the 4th and in both overtimes was corralling Kemba and getting so worried about him beating Biggs off the bounce in the pick-and-roll. And so Kemba to me even though he doesn't shoot the ball particularly. Well, he was still so slippery and effective and we saw that in overtime in both overtimes where you know, he's finding Tice. Repeatedly, he's breaking his man down. He was fouled on the last play of Regulation. He missed a floater near the end of the first overall. I think that just like hit the front of the rim and was just it just came up like an inch short. He had a really nice step back over. It was anunoby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like with the shot clock winding down. So to me like he's just this he's this he when he's on he creates problems that Toronto is really petrofac about where I feel like with Tatum Tatum will get his cuz he just wakes up with 22 points regardless, but when the ball is in his hands, I think that they have a more often like there's less movement on the weak side. There's less activity with the Celtics defensively they're confident when they put Kyle Lowry or even van Fleet on Tatum and Ed. Know that they're going to probably force a tough to or know that he's not super confident right now with his handle around those guys. And so that limits a lot of what he wants to do. It's I mean, my answer is I think Kimba here and yeah, it could go either way. It's kind of a coin flip but often in Canberra right now, so. Specifically, I mean, I know the, you know the came out in the box and one not necessarily expecting that is that was that the the root of of canvas issues you think? I mean there were the first half but it wasn't a problem for this obvious in the first half since everyone else was hitting shots against the box. And so the the issue came in the second half when they they kind of went out of that and campus still couldn't get going. And when you have a triple-double from smart, you know Tatum was efficient ice obviously was fantastic fishing in the fourth quarter and in those over time, so you pretty much maxed out where you get elsewhere and the one missing ingredient there was one way and so it will be interesting to see again coming off of 50 minutes, um for 52 minutes for Kemba in that before and he still looks like he was moving well through all of it, but you wonder what Nick nurse will come out there whether it's the same tactic, but I agree with Mike I think, is the guy number one here. He has been the the problem all series that Toronto wage. Hasn't had a direct answer to in terms of being on a guard man-to-man and so my guess is you know, Brad and his staff is going to be working pretty hard to figure out. Okay? What's what's the best plan of attack here against these small lamps to make sure Kemba gets into his rhythm. We haven't talked much about camping being a defensive liability of these play-offs because he hasn't been but Lowry really attacked him down the stretch, huh? Yeah, that was he made a couple of tough a device and I don't like did you on since you re-watched the the end of the second overtime when when Powell hit that open 3 on and cambi drifted off from attempting to rotate over who Brad got mad after that planning. It was in the final minute to put the the rafters either tie the game or to go ahead. Do you know remember the clam talking about here? Was it like a straight away three? Yeah the straight away three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so like so I couldn't tell their you know, you look at home. The reactions from Brad in terms and he kind of throws his arms up in that says you someone messed something up and to me I think it would have been just can't book kind of freelancing off of his men their faith and for a double and that, you know, he made a couple of gambles in this game that he normally doesn't do it and I think it kind of cost him on top of the getting attacked by Lowry. Yeah, I have to go back and watch that one. I do recall the Tatum was the one who kind of looked like he was he had a delayed reaction and then he sprinted out to confirm the shot, right? So maybe he was just making up for I mean, it doesn't matter who's man it is it's a wide-open three-point shooter exactly. So I don't know I have to go back and look at that one specifically. But yeah, that was a dagger. It was an absolute dagger. And you know, this is a little random but Norm Powell also hit this corner through Thursday late in the game. I can't remember exactly when but he was wide open and the Celtics were in the same Zone coverage on that position as they were dead and an OB hit a three at the end of game three throw that coverage out. Yeah, and I was just yeah it was like what is going on here? Why like the dog? You know, they haven't like leaned on Zone like the Raptors have at all but they go to it in these really funky times and like the data says that they've been successful but when they screw up it's just like in the worst possible spots, like maybe we don't maybe we can just like couch this for a while. Like I don't know really want to see it again. Yeah, I think I mean this isn't a complete knocking but Jaylynn like playing zone for him defensive awareness has never been his strength will say that he you know, this is why he would return minutes early in his career. I think cuz he would make these, you know mental mistakes that are common for for young guys and they're he's gotten a ton better and now but leaving at him playing in a comfortable spot in the zone where you're forced into tough decisions that end up with open 3 from the corners. That's like, you know, you put some of that in players and then you like you said great job. View you throw that in the back of the drawer. I need that kind of that kind of a look. Okay, I'd wrap up question one. I think that obviously, needs to be better. I don't think we're talking about the heat if, has waged a performance similar to what we saw in game six if it comes down to Absolute crunch time, though when you need the basket, you know one position need a basket. I still think Tatum's a guy, you know, I don't want a Paul Peirce isolated situation, but I just would like him to just carry a little bit more of the load and just be happy about it or just be comfortable real quick on that point, I mean, sorry Tatum scored, you know, they're down with thirty-three seconds left. The play is to Tatum. He it's a floater over Lowry six seconds left pick-and-roll with I think Kemba and he pops behind the three-point line. It's a 28-footer to cut it to one. You know, I was like thinking why why did why was Tatum the inbounder on that last play like yeah. Oh When the same exact play with Marcus Smart throwing the ball, like what do you what is what is going on here? Why doesn't that like, I know they had no timeouts. But like why isn't Brad screaming for smart to be one to inbound. I don't know just like the guy who threw a football seventy yards out of a swimming pool like two weeks ago, but let him wind up exactly and Tatum's probably your best Target and certainly the guy came to taking that shot. Yeah that kind of slip through the cracks something new to be upset about thank you. All right, speaking of being upset question to Thursday is Brad Stevens need to get mad. Do we need to see a little bit of mad Brad and I think that's been one one one narrative the Celtics fans the the most the most disgruntled Celtics fans have been talking about the series the fact that I'm a nurse has been working and the entire Raptors team, but especially Nick nurse has been working the refs since the tip and game one and does seem like maybe some of the 50/50 calls might be going the Raptors way does Braum's Need to get mad. Yes, he does. Yes. I mean not super mad. But here's a situation or here's the perfect comparison. I think you look at with this song. When when Titus got super kicked in game five like that needs to I mean, this is on the players in the floor to that needs to get reviewed like you need to just like lie down or you need to do something to be like, hey, I just got kicked here in the face. And so, you know, I think it was in front of Stephen was that side of the bench, but you compare that the no rules are that probably would have been a flagrant foul because that's just the letter law and I hate all these right it's terrible and that makes no sense. Like I understand. It's stupid like the more views of the last thing that this these games you turn off but this is like just makes a difference in a series like this and you compare that to in I think beginning of overtime when Tatum got fouled by Lowry, but then after he opted out on the flail caught OG in the face with an elbow inadvertently, but I didn't get too technical team. Tactical there which to me is bananas because once you get found dead, As long as it wasn't any ill-will like getting someone with an elbow after you get fouled like yeah, of course my momentum like I got hit what I can't control my body here. But in that situation the Raptors kind of made us think OG stayed down for a little bit and then that convinced the the review and of course the the subjects get you know, the Raptors got an extra point out of it there which came in pretty handy to make sure to force overtime so stuff like that. I think you need Brad to be a little more, you know, fiery and situations when the other team is going to such extremes and wage really reps are buying into it. I forget what play it was there was I think it was on Titus. It was a block where Lowery like just ran into him taste beat him robot on the sidelines and Larry just like tumbled into him and then like lost possession of the ball. I know that yeah, I think it was that song. Where Brad went down on one knee he was so upset. He looked up at the ceiling and he screamed. I think I can't remember if that was the play might have been a different call. But yeah, no, I'm like that's limo of that. Anyway shittiness should bread get mad. I think he should put on a retro Marcus Camby Jersey and stand on adults in the corner and Pascal siakam drives to his left and needs to find a shooter. He's just waves his arms and screams Pascal's name. That's that's gotta be the strategy here if your brand Steve Jobs like what what do you mean just coaching it? Yeah. I don't think like it's funny to me that like, I I personally think Brad's like I like his home like just kind of knowing and his own Persona and not trying to be anybody else and he's just like being calm. I'm sure he has like an internal monologue. That's just pure chaos, but like wage His ability to you saying there's some there's some Darkness the Brad Stevens that we don't know about it. It's deep in dark. I can guarantee that but I just yeah, I like how he just is who he is and I don't really care about you know guys getting going berserk on the sidelines. Yeah, I agree. I think Brad should be proud. I think Brad is who the Celtics having Celtics are very happy with with with Brad Stevens. And I think even if the if it says say Brad did get mad, right? Let's see if he if he stepped outside of his body and acted like someone that he's necessarily not in the Celtics lose. I bet you he spends the offseason more upset about that. Yeah, but not being true. True true to his true bread self. We can be so true Brad stuff though and you gotta make sure that you get the rest attention when something needs to get if you're going to review everything this series then that needs to happen for both sides and that's kind of on him to make sure that happens like yeah, it's a maybe it's something for next year. I guess I wouldn't want to just for game seven to be like, okay. I gotta be a certain way to to sort of play catch up, right if that really dead. Is really is something that's going to affect the refs and change the series like Nick nurse one. This one's right true once you though like as a coach, you're telling your players like you can't control the cause play through the whistles. But if you're simultaneously telling them to either through indirectly or directly telling them to basically like protests every single time. There's something you disagree with to either get a review or a flagrant or a technical called or whatever. It's like you're kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth a little bit and I don't know like it's just it's tough. Like if you're not someone who plays the game that way and thinks that way and act that way on the court like that's so natural to Kyle Larry like it's just like, it's It's Supernatural for him to Lobby constantly and be so confident regardless of what actually happened on the floor. I don't know how many guys on the Celtics are like that test ice sure as hell is not like that song. And he gets hacked and all the time and gets called for ridiculous thing speaking of lowry another one the the undercut on Jalen. In the first quarter. Yeah, that was tough. Like that's again. I mean credit Jalen Jalen just like, you know shrugs it off and said, you know, you know, you don't mean it but again like place like that off if they're going to call you for rinky-dink elbows after you get fouled or the Tice like flagrant from I think game 5 was outrageous. I finish this game fiber game six where he caught, you know, someone inadvertently on a screen like if that it's just you don't have to tell everyone to make a scene about every single call. But when you show you got hit in a input in a bad spot whether it's a super kick to the face or someone taking out your legs, that's make sure that gets taken care of that. That's all I'm saying. Question 3 be robbed are the Raptors going to go small again? Cuz it's my search Rebecca had a great game when he's out there. Yep, Marcus all woke up the haircut seem to work a little bit at least in the second half came out and hit a few shots, which is more than we've seen. We saw in the first set, you know 5 and 1/2 games, but obviously the Raptors won the game by going small. Do you think it happens again? Yes. Yes because Lauren package has not been alive in the series until game sex or maybe garbage-time a game five. He got some momentum going and then he finally was the guy that he had been for this truck already with you in the long and Gordon hayward's not out there. So that puts Brad Stevenson a little bit of a pickle Tice played great in this game. They they really attacked they've even gone to me more than they did with the, you know, just the logs in the high low in the overtimes. But at the same time that puts him in a mismatch going the three-point line wage. Actually when OG is shooting the lights on the series, so I think nurses going to put pressure on Brad here and go to back again and do it more and I'm very curious to see the counter. Do you go to Wanamaker and really match up so you can have full versatility in terms of the switching or do you look for the offensive board advantage and the the size of Vantage download with theis but I think there's no there's no doubt in my mind that they're going to be going some all they're going to be doing it for a big chunk of the game again. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I you know, I was honestly shocked that that line up that Toronto played had only logged according to clean the glass 7 a.m. Sessions during the regular season unreal. It's so sensical to me in a league that's going in that direction and for such an experimental coach to not use it off at all up until now really it makes you wonder again exactly like it makes you wonder about Gordon hayward's value in a spot like this and how we talk about that line up that you know the cell phone version of that which would have had Gordon instead of thys I presume on the floor. What does that look like? And you know, the the Raptors offense was pretty atrocious just statistically in the fourth quarter and in the first overtime with that small lineup, so it's not like they figured something out. I mean, they hit a couple of Threes in the second overtime and got it going with the dog. Number that we alluded to earlier with Tatum and Powell but like I don't know. I mean if I had to say I I think like I also wonder you know if Serge Ibaka was a hundred percent healthy and didn't have that walking down on his ankle. Like does that impact Nick nurses decision making those at all strategic? I don't I don't know but it does make you just my big takeaway. Just watching it all was like damn like Gordon Hayward would be really valuable right now. And I do Wonder to your point B, Rob how many more minutes Brad Wanamaker gets with the starters instead of thys because he's been terrific in this series and he's a pretty beefy ball-handler who's been hitting a shots and I would like to see I would like to see that line up. I just I just I just wanna see like I might be a question for nurse with going small as like when you do it because like are you just going to again this is this is not something that they did all season and they had and it was it was a pocket of time and a crazy game where they insert birth and just rolled with it. But you wonder is it like are you now going to going to mess up your your Gestalt Ibaka rotation, or you're not going to start a baka kasal is a bucket not going to be your first guy off the bench. Like I am going those Stars right? I mean, are you going to wait to maybe you go to your down? I imagine if you're having success of what you're typically do, you know, you're up to six seven points that you're not going to go small from there. I think it's more it's yep. Be another situation where if the Raptors are maybe seeing the game starts to slip away then maybe nurse goes to it. I don't know if he's going to preemptively move. Go there. No, I I agree like he's not going to happen to go off. I think he's not going to be afraid to go to it quickly in the fourth quarter of a tight game or you know, definitely if they're behind and yeah, I mean, it's a situation for him where you you're you're trying to take away Kemba Walker and his most valuable tool is in this series has been blowing by the Toronto big wage. And so if you find a way to take them off before and that's good way to do it. The one thing that this lineup can do 4:00 on. Toronto is no one can there are no good rebounders on the floor for trial in this situation in that is where you know keeping Tyson the floor or gentleman Jalen are monsters, right? They were monsters on the glass. So that date was a big thing that stood out to me right? So that that that's why those guys could potentially wipe the phone number. That way to reach this point like four. There's a reason why I think Nick nurse haven't played it much all year long because it's can be very vulnerable. So it'll be fascinating. I I I look forward seeing it for in some portion of the game, especially a tie game late, but it might not be you know, the answer will see. Yeah and I wonder about again how much more you use want to make sure because it seems like wage I think we can all agree that the Celtics are the more talented team in the series. Yes. Piano. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I think they're better. Yeah, so I mean, I feel like I think it's like Nick nurse is wage one who has to be more creative. He's the one who's coming out when trying to surprise he talked about during the in one of his the first quarter interview. He mentioned that he needs to leave it all on the floor as well. I don't know we didn't know literally he menus going to be out in the floor off somebody at a key moment. But he means that he's really going to his bag. He's he's trying to throw misdirections is almost feels like a football game plan a little bit like, okay, we're going to start the game in a box in one get them confused and once they get your phone number, We're going to do this and it seems that he's getting a lot more creative and that he maybe the Raptors need it to beat the Celtics. But my my question for is is there anything at the Celtics can do differently life? Is it is it Brad Stevens? Is it best for him in the Celtics of just stick with what they do? Because what they do is better than what the Raptors do or you know, I don't know if it's good to get to reactive and like maybe out think yourself. Yeah, I don't I don't think this is a really good question. I don't think that the Celtics need to make any dramatic changes at all. Like I watched game 5 turned out great. So like offensively it kind of goes back to them. Are you going to get Kemba going? How are you going to get Tatum going? I liked I liked how they purposefully engaged Kyle Lowry on the ball and pick-and-rolls to kind of keep. Him away from that spot like as a weak-side help Defender. Hello, man who can just like slide in and take charges and be This brilliant secondary defending that he is. So I like that strategy and they went to that repeatedly over and over again and but like I don't I don't I don't know like what else you do? You're not going to switch off coverage is on like any of these guys like you're it's everything is sound you're contesting shots. You're like cattle are you just hit some shots that you're going to have to live with that? We're kitchen sink jump shots. That's what they were. So if he does that again after playing like seventy-five minutes and games 6, and he comes out and he's spreading around the court and wreaking havoc in game seven, then I don't even I mean you just like tip your cap to that. I don't know what what to say. I don't think it's anything strategic that the Celtics can can do. What do you think be run? Yeah. It's going to be dead. Subtle tweaks. If anything I'm with you guys in that front it is so we did see the smart move on the Lowry in game five and just a determination to say, okay. We're going to we're not letting me US Lowry that didn't work as much in game six because everyone else started doing threes. So the switching and the you know, really lying things off for Lowry came back to bite and they just had to go away entirely as the game wore on the second half. So What's my question for brasier the staff according to this game? Like what's what's priority number one? Is it is it taking away with our e. And making everyone else beats you or is it letting Lowry get his and you know not giving OG and Ibaka and those guys just Deluxe to get some momentum. I'm not sure what the right answer is on that front, but my instinct is like if you need to stop like Lowry's the head of the snake again and you and he got out of the box get a game sexy need to need to really tighten up on that and gained 700% agree with that stop Lowry and you know, whatever you give me example, you can carry you carry the load for four minutes at a time random minutes over the course of the game. Maybe siakam can get into a I don't know it can hit one or two shots in a row. But like if you stop Lowery from consistently being Lowry, I think you win the game. Do you need to stop is OG the second best player for the Raptors in the series right now? He's breaking out, huh? No question. I mean I was texting with a friend of mine who's a big Raptors fan and they were not happy about the the criticism of Pascal siakam, but you can you can understand it. Even if you're not happy about it. Right? I'm like he is a max player game. He's averaging what like fifteen points and shooting like thirty-six percent from the floor in the series. Like Nick nurse called them out making them out loud Pascal's been like wildly disappointing. I don't know if I don't know how there anything else to say about it. I mean, I think oh geez outside shooting will come back to earth but in a seven-game series, if it doesn't then you're going to lose jobs like hoping for that. But he also just like has this really like rapidly developing off the bounce game where he'll just like go behind the back off. On a dribble-drive to the rim and you're just like where did that come from? Like you weren't doing that before the shutdown like it was like so he's he's he's been absolutely tremendous and I am Pascal is not OTG went between the legs that has to step back three from the top of the key at one point in that game. I was you know, he went from Daniel theis to Jayson Tatum Jersey quickly 49% from 3 in the series on Jesus on four point three times per again. I do worry a little bit about that sort of mid-range Baseline jumper. That's yeah, it was that the second overtime. Yeah as a jump shot. It was a jump shot, but he looked confident doing it. He looked more confident than he had it and the other point have a two minutes left in the game to to go up through. He also missed a wide-open layup thought. Oh my God and the topic. Yeah. I think it was Celtics assistant was his name Scott Morrison. CO to Morrison. Yes. Yeah. I think you know, there's you're not zoomed in when you're dead. During these games, but I'm pretty sure he made a face. I don't want to call him out. But I just did when Pascal missed that shot. That was pretty funny. Just like a like a disgusted like like, oh man, I question Five Guys. How much does Brad count on the bench? There are no what was the the last substitution that the Celtics made in that game. I believe it was towards the end of third-quarter off the end of the third quarter guys, right at the right at the very end. I'm looking at wanted to pull wanna make this campus have been for Wanamaker. Yeah. So so we see who Bret Stephens trust when when it comes down to it and this whole game it's going to come down to it. So, I don't know what do you like to do? All these starters all five starters have I don't know about ice but she's do they all have like forty years thirty-five thirty-six plus minutes in them. I think it's going to be a field situation. I mean Wanamaker I think is a walk for twenty minutes in the game like this just because especially if the Raptors go small wage for more of the game. I think he's just the type of guy when you're you're facing a defense that's playing a lot box and one or just, you know, zone defense stuff. He's the cable secondary attacker there that you need to either create a shot for himself or someone else and no one else coming out the Celtics fans can really do that right now. But I mean after that way like I think you just you roll out some guys in the first half you see who looks good. And if if they are like the bench has been real solid all season long here. So I don't think you necessarily need to be afraid of them in this game like because they've given you a boost here and there. Yeah. I'm just a little like besides Brad Wanamaker. I like he plays Grant Williams at a note doesn't play a minute in the first half plays. I'm 7 Minutes in the second half in the third quarter and Grant Williams hits. Do you like out of nowhere threes like your stories honestly stunned when both of them went in either 12 in the postseason three for Grant Legend making up for not making it a shot for the first four months of his career and then like I don't know like you have to like Rob Williams is going to play off a minute. Well, it's like when taste hits the bench, where where are you going? Are you going to be a small with either Grant or Jimmy at the five or just kind of whoever the 5 and just be small with those lineups? Um, I don't I don't know. I mean they did go I mean obviously when Grant they did do that in the second half cuz I don't think Brad is too fond of Rob Williams pick-and-roll defense in this series. But yeah, it's like you're at the end of the day. I look at Toronto's bench and I'm just like, okay Serge Ibaka has like a champion song is played in countless playoff games versus like is Grant Williams going to be your 5 man. Like I just I I think she was really just like can't dribble a basketball and soccer. So what do you I don't know. I don't have a lot of faith, I guess at the end of the day and the bench and I think they don't really have an option and when it comes to like, I think the starters just have to play like a shit off. I think that's what it is until they're up 20. Yeah, and it's a shame that that the Raptors got away with playing a Bach only 21 minutes. I mean he I think he came out with like eight minutes left in the fourth quarter and then didn't see the floor again. It would have been nice if that would you know a silver lining if if I'm losing games six. They also would have had to play, you know about 30 something minutes. Maybe he'd be a little bit more sore coming to game seven but you gotta figure he can give you another good twenty twenty-five minutes home and when he's out there, you know, not that not that Rob has been a great option against him, but I don't know we have the faith in Grant Williams. Like you said be robbed you have the faith and putting out Grant Williams and game 7. Yeah, why not? Why not? I mean he he hasn't looked out of place in the postseason. I don't want to roll them out there for twenty minutes, but I'm not going to not give him a chance in the first half and off and you just have to get a feel for what it how easy it is looking like the big thing too with Brad when you're managing like just just play Robbie Williams against us all off. Like don't let it bother get off from 3. Like he always does with Rob Williams on him because he can't name of the pick-and-pop if you're going to play Rob like either get him in early for thys and so it takes him a tip of a baka off or wait till August tacos back in the game. That's that's a minute for me in situation for me at this point is a campaign to start Rob Williams. I mean, right. I mean it's kind of that's the only reason why I was like participating for it earlier this year. It's like, all right, you're going to play them playing against the guy who, you know doesn't want to take the threes. It's all made a couple in this game. So maybe that will change but wage For now, there's there's a far preferable match up for for timeline. If you're going to play them question six guys, who did the Miami Heat want to win game seven? Who would they rather face make Pina? I mean I think I think that the Celtics are better. So if I'm Miami, I'd rather play Toronto a Toronto team that is kind of more similar in the way that way they're built to how Miami is built just in terms of you have Myriad scoring options. You don't really have to traditional like big-time primary scorers All-Star caliber scores. So I think that you know, I don't know like it's it's as we're seeing right now as these teams are going a game seven. So it's like such a splitting of the hair situation, but I think when I look at the Celtics and the Raptors, I see like two teams staring at themselves in the mirror and I throw Miami in this bunch to everyone sort of staring each other in the mirror and they can play all these different ways and they have all these versatile lineups and versatile players, but I just think like in game six kind of proves me wrong here, but Like when you have Jason Tatum, it's just the Difference Maker and a big spot and I still have faith in that statement. I might be an idiot for saying it but I would rather not deal with him and then also deal with Jaylin who we like haven't really talked about except for be making fun of that turnover, which is kind of bad cuz it's like the best player on the team and that game if they win that game we talked about Darryl in it because Jaylin interest somewhat lesser extent Marcus with a triple-double, but even with the girl was shooting in the in the first half him in jail, and the reason that they were that they were up early. I mean he was it the only reason that that that was a game. Yeah, Jenna Jenna was terrific. I don't want to like any the two free throws at the end of 18 months left in the fourth quarter it was it the first overtime. I forget the first overtime. It's like ninety 1% from the line in the playoffs, which is he's just been yeah, he's been great. So apologies to him for not talking about him at all in a month. Test about him. I guess him like just overlooking it's on it's on brand for the winning plays podcast. We hate you on. Yeah, you do. I still want to trade him for John Collins off. Okay. Now I'm taking I was sarcastic. I'm I'm making fun of myself. Sure. I would rather have Jaylen Brown than junk. That's good. I'm glad that you have come to that conclusion. So yeah, I'm going to answer this. I'm thinking Miami would rather play Toronto. Yeah, Miami doesn't have a guy waiting to come back. Not that Hayward could be a huge Factor if he comes back but Toronto doesn't have that guy in their back pocket. So when you have to even teams and in Hayward has given Miami a lot of trouble this year when he's been healthy. I think my name is clearly hoping for the Raptors supposed to sound. Yeah and Bam just obliterate see I come in that in that matchup Jimmy, you know, he takes his pic. I can see Jimmy Kimmel least neutral birth. Lowry or whatever it was I I agree. I think that Miami's is fully rooting for Toronto. But question seven for game seven who is actually going to win Brian Rob home. I mean, I had Celtics and 7 before the series and I went off it and now I'm I'm coming home. I'm coming back home too, but I will say this. Don't don't have this be a close game late you need I only feel comfortable about the substance 7 if it is not known as you blow out, but like a five five to ten point lead like a solid lead throughout the contest or at least once you get into the fourth quarter if it if it gets down to crunch time and it's anyone's game. This is the worst prediction I've ever heard of just it's a total strategy straddling the line I'm saying this really know what I'm saying. So it's going to win but I don't feel good about that prediction if it's cold flight. That's all I'm saying. So December is my pic. I'm picking Celtics a comfortable Celtics. When is my pic? Okay, so I'm be robbed Celtics in seven, but not only Tatum drops a 50-ball and they shoot 60% from behind the three-point line and Pascal siakam brakes is a little high. Apparently apparently shooting forty percent from three isn't enough anymore. Is that what was it the number it was it was the first game that they ever lost shooting higher than than 40% the playoffs. Yes from through. Yes brutal. I see nothing wrong with that analysis. By the way that you just gave like that's just yeah. I'm I'm I'm pretty superstitious person. But I guess I also just keep thinking that the rafters are like, this is like a last-gasp like I thought that game for was the last gasp. I thought that last night was the last gasp and I'm going to continue to think that until they prove me wrong and Kawhi Leonard is not walking through that door. So I'm I'm going with the Celtics. I'm going to I'm going to break it's not it's not going to be an animus. I'm going to go through until I think I know I'm I'm telling you once the atom has a big game. He's do he's do and it's going to be that shot. He hit at the end of the double overtime that that ugly what you call it. Pina junk junk shot that junk on the brake line. And the second overtime will be the reason, you know again and it'll take it's going to take Jayson Tatum having and have you not Fifty. I think Jayson Tatum needs to score 40 points for the Celtics to win loss in game. Seven. Damn. Yeah, I do. I don't know. I just say something about this Raptors team man. If you let them you let them live for too long, you know, and I think it's just one of those things you can look back at the craziness of game six, the ridiculous ridiculousness of game 3 game fours and understandable loss, but those two games with the Celtics had and again Europe Europe 4.6 in double overtime. I just think they let them let them stick around these teams are again. We say that the Celtics are a better team I think on paper they certainly are but me look at the series clearly 3 and 3. They're even it's going to be a close game and like you said Europe. I'm not counting on that that five to ten point when I think it's going to be closed and I'm going with Toronto down the stretch that happened not happy about it. But with the prediction, all right, so you have it sounds like UFC outcome for your X Factor in that Mike who's your X Factor in or who's the the the the surprise contributor in the Celtics win game seven? Surprise contributor. Hm. I mean my answer was just going to be kamba. I just think Kimba so huge but and the fact that they've in that game and probably should have won despite him playing so poorly as a score is pretty telling I mean, I just keep coming back to Wannamaker, I guess. Yeah. It's like is it two years if it's if Wanamaker wins the match game seven, like just two years for me. It will be justified the last two years. He's just playing Supercross and not really making any mistakes at all. And yeah, so I like I like Wanamaker to continue to play well off. All right, and who is it? Did you did you give your X-Factor Bureau? I mean it's it's want to maker to watermaker exercise. Do you want to make your X Factor's Jimmy fine? How the series off? Yeah, so we're all watching on Kanye's Hundred-Foot screen game seven. We going to be able to to pull that off. Yep in silence. That's the way to do it home. All right, we will meet up there we will be with you guys as well with full reaction win or lose after game seven really nice them to go for 9 p.m. Start off on a game 7 that will be just make everyone wait around for another 3 hours on Friday night, but we'll be back with you guys over the weekend with reaction either way and Thursday anytime hit us up at my KO bhi Pina. Be sure to check out all the stuff at GQ on the NBA playoff. She's been killed over there Rich underscore Levine and have Brian. An at winning play Spot get us there and we will talk to you guys after game seven. Enjoy.

Celtics Raptors Jayson Tatum Kyle Lowry Nick nurse Brad Toronto Kemba Walker Brad Stevens Jalen Jalen Brad Wanamaker Rob Williams Pascal siakam Michael Pina football Marcus Serge Ibaka Toronto Raptors Brian Rob Gordon hayward
Celtics Locker Room Meltdown | Patriots Seahawks Preview | Red Sox Silver Linings

Boston Sports Beat

19:13 min | 7 months ago

Celtics Locker Room Meltdown | Patriots Seahawks Preview | Red Sox Silver Linings

"All right, welcome into the Boston Sports be presented by bet u s and we're going to get right down to it with Brian Rob at the Boston Sports journal and it's you know, this is one of those stranger days in the past year for the Celtics coming off of you know, the game to melt down which they blew a 7 another double-digit lead a 17-point lead at but of course all of the focus in this one Brian is on the altercation after the game that became the story a lot of frustrations bubbled over some details today and again, you picked this and you could have guessed it and you know, it was it was very Marcus Smart heavy and and in jail and kind of jumping in almost got physical stuff thrown. What do you know about what went down and what's your what's your overall Vibe and long-term concern about how this is going to affect the team going forward if at all. I don't think it's going to affect them much long-term at all. This is a situation in a locker and Marcus Smart has always been the most vocal guy in that locker room and that those are two of the most frustrating losses back-to-back that the Celtics team has seen, you know, all year long and smart and brown have bumped head many times in their career before that again happened, you know, there's plenty people young a lot from there. But those are the two that kind of want each other the most but I don't think that it's anything that's laughing because it's a heat-of-the-moment type situation. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone was kind of had called for how things went a part in that game whether it was you know, Jaylen Brown missing a box out with thirty seconds left after Jason Tatum not being there for help rotation on bam. Adebayo 15.3 quarter or smart taking some tough question most shots late in the game against the the heat Zone when dead You know maybe better options were available. So I think everyone's going to kind of take a step back today. So start practicing today. They're going to look at the film. I think that films going to show okay, you know, everyone needs to step up here and so long, you know frustrations kind of going over right after a loss like that. I don't think are going to have any long-term implication besides, you know, maybe giving this team the the kick in the butt they need. Yeah again, no, no practice. No media, so you're not going to hear anybody talking about it today, which again is probably welcome for them to not have to rehash it again. You heard from everybody but smart he left the arena very heated. Now, I'm slicing up the blame pie of another double-digit loss how again you we pointed to a bunch of individual things here that went down. So it really is a total team break down. It feels like you can you can give some to everybody but a very fashionable thing is to point a Brad and say fix it. What if anything can Brad do here with a team that is has a has a PHD off Lying in Blowing double-digit leads. I mean they are as good at it as anybody we we see and it's again each time. You can point you this player. Did this this player did this this player did this and they're all kind of moments, but it can Brad do anything here to prevent this or keep it from happening. I mean, I think it does start first and foremost if the players to your point, since, you know, the missed shots are one thing then not moving the ball against the zone as one thing but there was just a lack of effort and faith in a lot of key spots for any game much less, you know gave to the Eastern Conference Finals. So that that's something there Brad can only do so much there. He's going to you know, it's like he has a deep breath that he can you know, go to Alternatives if something's not bring everything those games especially with with Hayward out. So it's on the players to really focus in and then realize, you know, really, you know walk in on their assignments black box out for 40 mins just play a full 40 minutes. And that has not happened much at all. Its closed even even during the season winds and then but you know Brad's gotta look at himself to God, I think you know throwing in as Cantor in the middle of third-quarter defensive meltdown did not go. Well Rob Williams not playing it all just a To mix things up and you know, maybe match at a bios fo system a little bit has to be looked at even though can't you're obviously gave them some big points in the first half there and found it is, you know, looking closer at the heat Zone which really frustrated the Seas. They got some good shots out of it, but they still were rushing they weren't staying composed. So I think the states need the coaching staff just needs to look at that scheme give you know Empower his guys know, okay, if we get to these spots and move the ball like we need to we're going to keep getting good looks and I thought, you know, maybe Gordon Hayward coming back to the floor and Game 3 or game for is a it's a big part of that. Well, let's move to that because that's going to be the big the big story here. There are reports that he could be ready for 3 months now, it looks like he's close. He's not going at the door. So How big a difference does it make again? You don't know cuz you don't know what percentage of Gordon Hayward you're going to get as you seventy eighty ninety eight anywhere close to a hundred and let's just assume he's somewhat limited package. Do you see this 18 to 20 minutes off the bench playing with that second unit offense that seems to make the most amount of sense here. But even that I think makes a big difference again, if only to reduce the amount of minutes being given to some of the bigger guys here give them a break give them a blow you can see, you know late in those games. It's wearing the late-game execution has been bad when they get frustrated, you know, some shot selection has a questionable. So maybe just getting Gordon in there a little bit. I think I think makes a huge difference regardless of whether he's close to a hundred percent. Yeah, I agree with you John. I mean, he's someone who just can kind of do it all offensively even if he's not as fast. He's he's patient. He's a mid-range shooter. He's like, he's a good passer and he's someone that he just going to have to respect much more than a semi ojeleye. Terrific Paul Handler you all of it. Yeah. Exactly. So that's something where you don't have to put them into the fire immediately. You can bring them off the bench, excuse me, and then that just allows everyone else to kind of play offs or comfortable Rose against that zone not put the pressure on them to create as much and that should lead to better shots. It's not a guarantee. He may not be himself and that might you know limit what he can do, but it's clearly even him at 80% at this point is probably better than Shem usually on the offensive end. And so that's going to be helped the suckers office and maybe give guys some more rest to them to avoid seeing, you know, the meltdowns we've run in the second half in the fourth quarter of these games and there's a trickle-down effect too. It's not just a semi ojeleye minutes. I mean, I know Romeo tried a little bit but you're looking at I you know Wanamaker's play Monster minutes right now probably way more than you want to see him playing in a playoff series this at these late stages because smart has to play so many minutes with that first unit and that's you know, Are these are kind of hayward's minutes there. And so Wanamaker's having to come in and spell you know, smart and Kemba at times and so he's playing 25 minutes a game which again is a ton. So just simply reducing the load a little bit. I think as you said definitely makes a big difference prediction going into game three again, who knows but yeah, I mean I if you go back and look at what this others did and these games I think they're going to look at they did miss a lot of makeable shots against that so the second half they didn't play well, but they often looks worried there and so it's just going to be a matter of composure and I do think they're going to take a game three that's still a very long way to go to get them back in the series, but just based on how this team has bounced back from adversity all year long. I don't I don't think it they're ones to just turtle and you know get swept title playoffs here. So I think you're going to see some some better off in game three and then we'll see what happens from there. All right quick break. You want to tell you about our exclusive sponsor. That is BET u s football basketball baseball hockey all going on right now and you need a place to get down your bets. I only endorse one sports book and that of course, is that u s.com? Why you ask? Well that us is the Pioneer in online betting with more than 25 years in a business Community wage. I spoke with integrity and Longevity need to make sure that you're going to get paid. So here's how you get involved. All you have to do is go to bet u s.com and fill out your information when you sign up and then you get to the box that says, how'd you hear about us right in Boston Sports Journal. Once again, that's that u s.com. And then the Box. How did you hear about us right in Boston Sports Journal you can get up to 150% in bonuses on your first thought is it again that u s.com sign up now up to 150% on your first apartment Switching gears to football will bring in Greg Bedard Patriots to see box match up this week and Greg you've written about and you've talked about Cam Newton having to do more this week against Seattle in order for the Patriots to be competitive. Yeah, no question. You know this Seahawks team. We all know some of the cast of characters have changed but they they're extremely fast. They're extremely aggressive especially in the office building there won't be fans but it's it's still a tough chore to travel out there and we saw in week one a very limited game plan. It was it was effective, especially in the running game. But only three pass this over 10 yards. The Patriots will not be able to play like that this week against the Seahawks. They're just they're they're too aggressive and you know the other big thing out of that game against the Dolphins was cam given very little ability to check out a place at the line of scrimmage. And so the Patriots ran a bunch of bad plays in the pad looks and that's fine. They got away with it against the Dolphins off a bunch of new players on their team. They will not get away with against the Seahawks. I mean they if I'm the Seahawks going into this game. I am basically blitzing every single down and come down. After Cam Newton because he what we saw last week was cam can see the bullets coming and there's nothing he can do about it. We're in the past Tom Brady could check out of a play get the Patriots into a better place. If the if the Patriots don't figure out a way to threaten the Deep part of the field and to throw some wrinkles and I do think I think we're going to see Josh McDaniels typical stuff against fast defense traps lambs and running game will see they did not run very many screens as the Dolphins. I thought that was curious. They probably held it out for this game. So I think we'll see a bunch of screens wage if the if the Patriots don't throw a couple of wrinkles at the Seahawks very early. They're going to come after Cam Newton in the Patriots on every single down and that's going to be a tough chore. So you want to see them press it down field regardless of whether they're successful just just for the sake of yeah, they have to have to take it. They have to take their shots. And you know, there were some design shot plays against the dog. The problem was that the Dolphins were all out blitzing on those plays and and Cam Newton didn't have time to even get to those downfield read. So they they need to do something. They need to they you know, first play the game Throw go to damiere Byrd something like that just to just to put it in the Seahawks mind or else or else the fields going to get very condensed for the Patriots. And and I don't think I don't think they can survive a fight in that type. Okay on the other side, you've got Seahawks offense. It looks a little bit scary. I mean again you Patriots have the secondary to match but Russell Wilson mobile quarterback playmaker the traditionally Pat haven't done well with with quarterbacks like him. How do you view this matchup and and and with the Patriots defense going in there? Well, they certainly can defensively because they're you know, the secondaries our strengths and and the Seahawks have a ton of weapons. Like you said DK Metcalf Tyler Lockett the club More two tight ends that are outstanding Chris Carson, you know a nice running back. The problem with the Seahawks is that their their Achilles heel is still four years still their defensive line. They do it between brown at left tackle. They do have a promising rookie and Damien Harris Damian Lewis at Right Guard, but outside of that they're very very shaky and the problem is though is that that's not really the strength of the Patriots. Yes, they'll be able to get a little bit more pressure but it's one thing for the the secondary the secondary is good for the Patriots. But you know, they've gotten away with being able to cover for a few seconds. The thing with Russell Wilson is you need to cover for about 6 seconds and that makes it a lot different so long if the Patriots don't get home. They don't Corral Russell Wilson, they don't if they allow him to run around and make plays it's even going to be tough for their secondary. So this is a tough matchup also wage. The Patriots are Switching gears to baseball which is a sport played by a team in Boston and the Red Sox amazingly nine games left in the season. Sean McAdam Boston Sports channel here and Sean Penn. This has been over pretty much for the Red Sox almost before the season started. So you're always looking to see what can be gleaned from any successes that are going on with the team right now and you wrote for buses took journal the other day about the success of the rookies primarily, you know, Bobby dalbec, you know shades of Sam Horn here, you know, five hundred and five straight games and not a really solid debut from Tanner house. So that in addition to a couple other rookies is encouraging but you're saying you're you're cautiously optimistic here that this is something that's signals. You know that these guys have arrived. Yeah. I think John you have to temper Your Enthusiasm. It's great to see Tanner how give you five shutout innings in his birth. Debut as he did on Tuesday night Miami, it's great to see the raw power. The doll back has exhibited but I think that you always have to take September performances and call-ups with the proverbial grain of salt because the Red Sox are obviously playing with no pressure whatsoever. These games don't mean much to them. So there's a looser atmosphere than usual. They're also have the advantage of you know, meeting these teams and players who aren't all that familiar with them and that's probably more true than this year when you can't Scout Minor League games because there are none so I think it's certainly an encouraging sign to see guys like dalbec and how often perform as they have so far, but I also think it's important to keep it in perspective and it would be dangerous to say well we've got a rotation piece and how long We can count on and we've got a slugging first baseman who's going to handle that position for the next ten years based on a few good weeks of September baseball again, you'd rather see them do this. Then struggle sure. Don't think you can read too much into a small sample size at a time when there really isn't a whole lot on the line. It's good to see. Yeah, but you need not see a lot more based on just what you've seen again. We're looking at a tennis playing closer to five hundred ball over the last, you know, last little bit here after just bought it certainly a miserable start till really short season again, it's it's such a small sample size all together. It's really hard to see, you know, it's really hard to get a get a sense of what's real. But anything else you're seeing that's encouraging at all with the rest of the team. Not not not including the rookies. Yeah. I mean, I think in general the fact that they are at least competitive. I mean when they left on this 9 p.m. Road trip that was just concluded in Philly Tampa and Miami it would have been easy to expect something like 2:00 and 7 they're playing three teams who are all in the playoff race with something to play for and clearly more talented rosters than the Red Sox have and to their credit the Red Sox went five and four against three good teams on the road. I think that's something I don't often go overboard and praise these guys for giving people something go overboard, you know, look their Major Leaguers. They should be giving full effort all the time. There should be Focus, even if there's a lack of talent they should be playing hard. But the fact is that some teams don't they fold like a tent in September there they have this can't wait for the season to be over. Let's get out of here. Let's mail in these performances and to their credit. They haven't done that. They have played hard. They have even the losses have been mostly, you know close games. So I think that speaks highly dead. The the approach the team has taken and frankly. I think it says something about Ron Reineke to that. He's been able to keep the focus of the team and it probably speaks to you know, I respect for him that they're not mailing in these last few weeks and that they can drag you to play hard and focus and lastly offseason checklist. You think's Rafael Devers should be high on their priority list your question. I mean, there's a lot to get down. Obviously. If you watch this team for any duration, you know that the starting pitching has to be addressed. The rotation has to get a lot better. There are a lot of things they need to do but I think high on this list should be addressing a contract extension for Devers you want to make him along with Xander Bogaerts the foundational pieces of this rebuilt and know that got the left side of the infield taken care of with two players in their mid-20s in their Prime under control for the foreseeable future the longer you let Devers get closer to free a dog. See the more you risk having a replay of what happened with Mookie Betts. I think that they weren't aggressive enough early when they approached Bets with some extensions early wage is with his service time wasn't all that great. They could have with more effort and more aggressiveness locked him up so that you didn't get into a situation where you feared he was going to walk away for nothing us trade him away as they did in February. You don't want another homegrown star to be in that position get them signed now get it taken off the plate and have the left side of the infield set for a long time tomorrow Sean McAdam. Thank you very much. This has been the Boston Sports feat presented by bet u s. Thanks for joining us off.

Patriots Seahawks Gordon Hayward Cam Newton Red Sox Boston Sports journal Russell Wilson Boston Dolphins Brad Sean McAdam Marcus Smart Jaylen Brown Celtics Brian Rob Miami Jason Tatum basketball Rafael Devers Tom Brady
Analyzing Gordon Hayward's exit & Celtics signings of Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague

Winning Plays

1:01:13 hr | 5 months ago

Analyzing Gordon Hayward's exit & Celtics signings of Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Welcome into a brand new edition of the winning Place podcast the first podcast we're recording here since Gordon Hayward elected to leave Boston and head down to Charlotte for a four year 100. Ninety million dollar deal. My name is Brian Rob though. Rich and Mike panel will be back with me later this week the stadium for their floor and then but for this emergency pod bring it into more of the big guns reinberg. Tony has been with one of the offseason and Brandon Jackson of Celtics Hub joins us for reaction to a pretty eventful weekend for the Boston Celtics Hayworth taking his ball and heading down to Charlotte the Celtics probably not getting anything meaningful for him that still unsettled weather will be assigned trade or not with Charlotte, but yep. Are left with some Freedom leftovers in Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague. We're going to get to those guys later, but the story here gentleman is the hybrid situation which I think to to exactly analyze the situation Ryan. I think we have to start with the the what's going to last week pre-draft the opt-in deadline vet getting moved to Thursday off here adopting out. Anyway, what's your read on like just how the situation was managed and you know how the how the dominoes fell in Target or home and how badly the Dominos so I should say for the subjects here. Yeah. I mean I can roll back earlier than that. Obviously, you know, you know my yeah, we'll go to seal the cover that another another one. We would obviously double covered with a greater this podcast cuz it's it's worth talking about you. So there's a maybe a bigger story there. I think that they sort of Mis manage the offseason to this point and it's easy to say that looking back and maybe they had irons in the fire them. A really worth keeping and and that you know, they knew there was some amount of risk they were taking but that the payoff was, you know was potentially substantial enough that it was worth doing but it seems pretty clear to me that they should have just held the line on a regional option date. It's hard to imagine what the situation was where he was going to opt-in and come back to the Celtics under any circumstance after they they delayed the option. Like if you were going to opt-in and come back then he would have already done it took opting in to get traded. Okay, that's fine. But you could opt out and then get signed and traded like the the window or the sort of world of possibilities where it was necessary to move that that deadline back was always pretty small and to me they should have just basically held the line and said like if you're going to leave then then tell us now and leave and so that the team could move on so that maybe it had no impact on the draft. They probably get back on the drop. I mean they drafted Wing anyway, whatever but they may have made other decisions on draft tonight or been offered other possibilities from teams. You don't really know but then the bigger thing is that they would have been ready on on, you know day one of birth. Agency to move and they use their their mid-level exception to get Tristan Thompson. It may have been a you know better thing to move and try to get a wing with that money off while it was open and why they were while there were players available by the time all the decisions came down and and it became clear that he was going to Charlotte. He was just kind of you know, there weren't many Wing options to begin with those too late. So I think that Thursday they seem to be trying to hold out hope for something that ultimately was pretty hopeless if you know if it was just money that that everything came down to and they were going to be willing to offer it's oh God. Yeah. I think it's bad. I think it's a bad it's bad process. I think there it's been just sort of another in a string of questionable decisions after you know some others in the office of years, but that sort of Ireland is that obviously like any retrospect it's easy to say so they should help the line and told them to make a decision before the draft and then and then knowing where they were and moved on accordingly so grave Feel like do you feel like they did that because they didn't think he would go to Charlotte like they cuz they thought that Indiana was the ultimate and game for him or what else. Do you kind of house? Do you read in a situation like in terms of how they try to manage this weekend? And that deadline? Is that to me? Yes, yes. Oh, my bad, my bad. Well, that's why like that's what I don't get like I was trying to figure out if he if they extended it to Thursday like wage. Were they still thinking that there was a chance that they might do an extension where they like really really trying to Hope like, okay, we'll give you this, you know, give you a couple more days think about it will tell you that this is not created on the draft right like whatever your decision is like our draft is independent. We're telling you in good faith that we're not going to use any pics or you know combine you if you opt-in opt-out whatever we're just going to draft best player available or do whatever side deals independent of you so, you know, cuz we want you here and then the Ops out anyway, that's that's what I don't understand. Like what was he going to like was there ever a chance for him to opt opt-out in return for like a kg deal, you know, but if that was the case he could have just opted out anyway, really that's not a case there wasn't really a case for him opting in and extending. So what was it was dead. Going on terms though, right? Like they could still he could opt out and then just re-sign as a free agent. Like there's no what is the situation where he would have opted-in other than they were working on some sort of trade where he needed to get on his contract and get traded in maybe that's an opt-in and then get extended and traded or something like that where if Indiana had preferred to front-load the deal something like that. But like this is all stuff that you're doing primarily to benefit other teams. It's nice that be robbed, you know you and and Rich and I talked about the last part is like the things that were being offered from Indiana. The hypotheticals don't seem to have been good enough to like put other than a wrist like if what you were or hoping to get out of it was Myles Turner for 18 million dollars a year when you can go and get Tristan Thompson for nine million dollars a year like what exactly unless they were legitimately thought that they were like if he opts in we can track him and then get TJ Warren and like the war and is that good though? No way better than what they have what the other options available are. At least I think I gave you can make a case that I just it's very hard for me to see what the situation is wage. It was like it was worth putting everything else on hold. What was the end game? That was like best-case reasonable scenario that was worth holding everything else in like I just I don't know what it is. I think to your point Ryan to me. It's a they thought there was a small chance you come back and they wanted to like keep that possibility open like whether that's the case or not. I think it's pretty clear that that was never going to happen or be, you know, making the bet or you know calling hayward's bluff that hey you only want to go to Indy you're not going to go to Charlotte. You're not going to go New York. Like you're not going to get enough money to get down there. And so when Ange kept, you know standing, you know, playing the game of chicken there till the vein of Indiana in terms of saying we don't want Myles Turner we want something useful whether it's Aaron holiday to some some kind of a win a deal in a sign-and-trade and we're not going to give up there. I think the name In that situation like okay if the Pacers aren't going to give in and haywards might just sign back here for like a two-year deal with a player option and then go to India next offseason. I think my guess is it was that kind of event in the Celtics head Jack's that that what they want to do and then Hayward said, okay, you're going to call me to off to the river here. Okay. I have the hand. I'm walking away and you're going to get nothing else and Topics in accounting that I mean. It's easy to walk away when he gets a hundred and twenty million like there's no chance. He should be getting that much money. And that's that's the Horford deal. That's that's that's the you know, it's kind of a win-win, you know, I know it sucks to lose Hayward for nothing but like, you know, you weren't going to pay him that anyway, and I guess the only thing that I could see is a win besides a draft pick up a young player that you might be high on. Like I don't know patient of anyone they just they just lost TJ's leave for nothing, you know, but like like wouldn't Depot wouldn't getting Depot back be a win-win wage. Like he doesn't want to be there. He's coming off an injury. He's an expiring so really it could be a rental for just see how it works and you know, maybe do whatever in the offseason but like wouldn't that have been the most logical win win win for everyone? Yeah. I mean, I think that that that's the one that makes the most sense in terms of like what were they really playing freely when I say what are you looking for in the upside? You want TJ Warren makes sense in the abstract of what the Celtics maybe want going forward but you then have to make the argument that that they would rather pay Gordon Hayward for years and a hundred million dollars just have DJ worn on the money they have and like the sort of calculus of like would they offer him this contract? It's already above market and give up a place below Market that probably never going to happen. But all the people maybe they would now personally, I don't think that that's a a play that the Celtics should particularly be have been interested in but at least I can believe it right like I can I might be wrong. I might be wrong that he that shouldn't be the play it maybe they would log. really interesting that that is the upside play that they were were running for I still get to a point of like Is his Victor Oladipo for one more year with all of his injury history? Like is that what you really want to be going for with what this team really is going forward now with as I think very much has been clarified here. Like this is Jayson Tatum's team and there's no other you know, no other way around no reasonable thing to think about other than that, so I still question even if that is what they were playing for particularly if there was no like a really close deal that they were sitting on being like, you know, okay, this is something that we're we're pretty certain it's going to happen here and I don't know it was a missed meal was mismanagement of the month risk-reward right in terms of like yeah, maybe you're holding out for that and then you're losing analyze other free agents while you're holding out for that. So like we should talk about that though. What are these other free agents that everyone's like I keep reading about this month. We keep missing out on free agents like who could we who could of gotten? No one really like does it for me? Well, so that's actually something that I want to get. It's like there is a certain amount that there weren't any other great. Free if they're like the the opportunity cost of using the mle on Tristan Thompson isn't particularly great and maybe wouldn't have been particularly great a day before like there aren't these like amazing three indeed options that are that are sitting out there and I think there is actually still a possibility that if this turns into a trade exception that a large trade exception if they get it for a very small price or a reasonable price and Tristan Thompson, Jeff Teague is probably a better outcome than like Myles Turner and Doug McDermott and having the mle to spend on something else because it will probably would in the taxpayer Emily. Like I think that there is a way that you needed this just like it could be better than the Alternatives that people were assuming it was going to go to when you really look at it closely. It's still worse than the Alternatives of like they should have just resolved. 10 months ago. Yes. I mean, how do you do that trade him? No, no. Okay. No signal it under your control. You do something instead of allowing, you know, they didn't move Al Horford because they thought that they were a title Contender and then he leaves everybody says, oh, well somebody wanted to sign up for their money. But what that tells you is that he had value like the wrong things out there that were willing to give him that amount of speed that he had trade value. So one is a place but like they didn't move them cuz they thought they were title Contender. They were misreading the team Kyrie Irving. They were trapped in this wage. They had that there was going to be a Kyrie and KD team up and there was but they were holding out whatever faint hopes were left. It would come to Boston and it didn't in that blow up in their face. And now again, they are holding down to these players until the timer runs out and it and it leaves their control and this is not for whatever we want to believe. This is not the Los Angeles Lakers with a bunch of clutch clients like wage. You can be confident that there are all going to be staying like this is an actual problem in no matter on like I'm getting like Reddit. It's the internet whatever people are angry and I say things and I get back there. Like I can't you know, you don't understand. It was just one key for a bunch of money and there's nothing you can do about it. Like you can do something about like you can move a half a season too early instead of a half a season too late, but they aren't like that what that does is like you just have to keep playing this to the like the lowest common denominator, which is like every year is this team title Contender and if you firmly believe, you know, you know, four months ahead of time before you actually have to know that your title Contender then you should just fire sale every year like I don't understand the difference right like never making the move means that you always think you're a title Contender like never making the move thinks that you're all that you're in heavy every year and I'm not saying that you need to make the move everything there are reasonable risks that can be taken but like when you when you get burned by it multiple times yeah I have to look back and be like an ultimate x with with two really good players you know what I mean writers who you didn't want to pay like two players who you knew was working that you did not want to have on your payroll long-term and you held onto em anyway Kyrie is somewhat of a different circumstance because the payoff of Kevin Durant teaming up with him is so great that you can make the argument that if there's a 2% chance you should hold you know hold onto instead of flipping in for a half a season to some team for like you know spare parts but if you've got way more than a 2% chance I mean the dude said he was coming back you know my midseason off and come on in February of that but here's the thing though if Hayward right now and like to on this on this rental Horford and carry everyone had their different situation there with Hayward I think the biggest thing here or to inquire about the mid-season they have to have the sense that he's not happy by the middle of this year and that's where for me that's where the mismanagement comes is the most clearing the situation because boss You have a guy he's obviously been snake bitten by everything here since he's been here with injuries with getting demoted from a rural standpoint with the breakouts of Tatum. And then you know, when you do lose Kyrie off your bring in another All-Star and Kemba, so it's not like he's even moving up the food chain at all which again helps your chances of contending but you have to have your pulse better on a guy like that to figure out. Okay. Does he want he all in on winning right now or is he understandably not thrilled with being the fourth option. And so again, I know where you look at Brad Stevens Danny Ainge all the above on that front page. Maybe he was they were not giving him the right message but I think Brian is still reported that you know, he didn't want it out for a while. So if that was true, then not moving him preemptively on top of like not winning and that's where this royalux bed and football continues on this week, which has a few surprise teams at the top of the standings and you might not be able to be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at Baton Rouge. No matter how the schedules change or players that play bet online is going that extra mile to make sure you can get in on every game this season with the fastest updated odds in the industry. There are always more options here than anywhere else online so head on over to bed online today and take advantage of all the great mid-season bonuses offers and contests met online your online Sportsbook experts and now back to the show off. I think like indoors like the idea that they thought maybe they could repair the relationship and also like they were you know, a dude like after the Isaiah I think life. Is it a lingering thing around the league with the Isaiah situation where he gutted it out and they and they there's probably a perception that they screwed him over anyway. So again Hayward comes back for gets off, you know, an awful injury comes back and then you trade him a half a season to really I do think there is a cost there. Well, whether it's who cares, you know what I mean, like at the end of the day who cares I guess dog. But like I do think there is a sort of emotional fan and free-agent cost to doing stuff like that to being that callous. Now if you come to an amicable solution, like if they said if people are saying that he wanted to leave half way through the season maybe they could have done that half way through the season and it would have been a win-win-win on everyone but I think the whole idea of winning a fake Covent title, you know where anything could happen in the bubble was too strong. That's what that's what I think. So there's a lot of people who are coming back on this idea with like well if Courtney was healthy, they would have made the finals and I'm not advocating that they should have treated them for nothing like they might have made the finals if they had had two more guys on the bench or in the rotation who were like viable right like month they healthy. Yeah, and so and part of it is that I'm not necessarily looking for a win win win. Like it's nice if it happens but like priority wise if you're if you're talking about the frown For the Celtics like the Celtics winning is the number one priority. The player being happy is like a nice thing. That's a second priority and the other team winning. I don't I hope they lose like I don't really care. Gordon Brad thing though had something to do with like so this is another have like be robbed and I have talked about on the past and some positive alluded to like I don't really care. It's not a huge off of it off course, but it's not like what is what the doctor didn't know but that is the only factor that level of of respect for the franchise where they're making like major Max contract Personnel decisions around what they can actually off Stephens doesn't deserve that. I say know like what exactly is it that they pay him a large amount of money on Long contracts and he's a good coach and this is again something that came up even in the last pod. I think he's a very good coach. I think he should remain the head coach of the Boston Celtics. But if they make a decision like Hey, we're going to move this guy because we think he might leave and even if he doesn't we don't necessarily want to have them on our payroll. We have other things coming and his response isn't that's what's good for the team. It's like well, but he's my buddy that's ridiculous. Like that isn't going to help explain on if it is then that's a problem. Like that's not a page that you should Connell but I don't think it's depends. Anyway, I don't I don't think would have happened. I don't think it's like an all-or-nothing thing. I think it's like a 10% you know thumb on the scale. That's it. You know, I don't think you know, I still think I think they probably tried to do something and they lost like it's also fair. I think isn't it fair to say that like, you know, we don't know what happens behind the scenes and I'm not trying to like make excuses even though I have been this whole time like isn't it fair to say though that like it. Maybe they just lost this one. Sure. I mean, we're both taking somewhat of like the extreme ends of the spectrum here because that's how the conversation is easiest to have only this is obviously a place where there are lots of Shades of Grey. These are all just like black and white decision that they should have done this or should have done that. We don't know what was available for them to do. We don't know what teams at the moment were interested in in in who and what and how things have played out even just in the last week. We were just absolutely don't know maybe they had a deal locked in that would look great and haywards agent calls around one last time to check and he says oh you can get a hundred twenty million dollars and everything falls apart. Like it would have thought it was you know a half a second away from being everything was hunky-dory. We don't we just don't know. My my point is sort of more about the the larger trends of like Decision making over the last couple of years. I don't think have been optimal after years of decisions that were pretty optimal and some of that is about like it's much easier to be making decisions when you're breaking down and rebuilding than it is when you're trying to get something across the line and and the conversation around Isaiah and like perception and all that is fine. But all you know, that was one of the decisions the few decisions that was probably right in the last couple of years, like unequivocally right to move or even if not to buy in on Kyrie and even if that backfires on you then again, you're talking in a lot of Shades of Grey here, but like from a simplistic level they had lost three major players for nothing or nearly nothing they been replaced one by signing a player who I think a lot of people are already looking at and being like Oh, okay one more year with Campbell maybe like where what is exactly the future of this with with Kemba is going to be in the same situation two years from now. He's not necessarily the right timeline was either right like there's a lot of Just just a lot of uncertainty around around even the big decision that they made that at the moment look booked solid, but that cambi one I think hurts like almost as much as anything wrong in terms of like the long like how they were hamstrung this offseason because I mean if they will see if he gets back in his right then, you know, that's that's fine. I know he's typing system. So that makes me think he's not going anywhere anytime soon. If you want to keep hearing the happy as long as he has something left in the tank, but I have to like you can be here for another year a season and 1/2 right page when you're in the exact same situation situation you are right now, which is like, oh we have a small thirty-two-year-old point guard and are the future of our franchise that we're trying to build their team around for the next decade because hopefully doesn't want to leave two years from now home is 24 and like so he's pretty he's 19. It will be 24. Well, maybe you'll never be 24 but like the campus situation is fine dog. They signed him. I was sort of like I get it there's they've sort of lost their timelines here and they're trying to like re-establish some sort of Baseline and and it's okay and like I'm not against it now. I'm not making it seem like I think it was a bad decision or by conquering I think it was wrong. Okay, it's is what it is. It's sounds on but they can't have the same thing that happened with Al Horford and Gordon Hayward happened with Kemba Walker two years from now know they're out of their own options their wage if he gets traded as part of a big pitch and they get Bradley Beal and he's moved out and they get draft picks and those draft picks become this and that like great it'll have all worked out and things will sort of normalized and some things work and some things go in your life, but You know or or what if he's a reliable third option despite being paid like a number one because Tatum and brown have made that leap and they are title contenders cuz it's it's easy to laugh about the Celtics being title contenders when there's obviously Brookland and la and and other La would which seem to have very very good teams. But as you keep saying this is all predicated on Jayson Tatum becoming this absolute Superstar and if he is a top-five player in the league at some point in the next two years, who cares if Kevin Walker is making so much money if they're in the finals. No, absolutely Jayson Tatum win the MVP next year the Celtics win the NBA championship. Kemba Walker's on the team. Everything is great and nothing else matters. Right? Right. There's no other problems there if he wins or if he's a top three or five or whatever MVP candidate next year and you are in a position in two seasons from now to try to play it out because you're like dead. Hey, we're going to win sixty five games and we're the you know, a top two or three favorite for the title. And that is somewhat of a in my opinion, even though they made it to the Conference Finals a different position than where they are. Now, you've crossed that bridge when you get to it. I'm not saying that there's no way that this plays out. Well other than having him traded but like if Jayson Tatum is the 8th best player in the league and just sort of cover continues to be the way he becomes Paul George and not Kobe Bryant. It's like, okay, that's great. But you need jaylinn to move up the ranks a lot. I mean even then like there's no there's such a small basis for teams that have the eight best player winning the title like yeah, and it's in the twenties out of that. There's no out of that the out from that is is gone and that's off the pic that might have become Luka doncic and thankfully didn't was traded three years ago, right like there's There's no way that you can get out of that other than five years from now when Tatum is, you know, equivocating about signing a supermax you trade him for a million draft picks, right? And then you just have to deal with it. Like that's so far down on that. You don't want to have to consider that at the moment like yeah, but you get my point is that like the Kemba piece in here in the middle transitioning you from sort of one weird Broken Arrow with Kyrie Back to the Future of of a Tatum Centric world needs to be managed better than the last couple of transitional players were managed. So for being a transitional plan Gordon Hayward a transitional player functionally, you also need Kemba from that standpoint like. Alan like corn situation. You need to be on the same page and there in terms of saying okay. He has that big player out. You have to hope again he is these guys were all about the money obviously Hayward or in that sir. That's the right. They're not even going to the highest bidder and getting your bag. You hope that with Kemba it's like hey when that player option comes around. We actually you know, we've been talking about these renegotiations of other teams like you like it here you're tight with Tatum like we want your here, but we can't afford to pay you thirty-five million dollars and also like maximize, you know our context chances. So let's let's figure something out that makes sense for both sides like that has to have like they like right you're pointing. They said they can't mess that up for that time around like and this is our last chance at it can't we can't isn't there a scenario though where they have their cake and eat it too. Like right now I brought up in this maybe pie-in-the-sky, but if they get this massive trade exception from Charlotte, couldn't that absorb Bradley Beal midseason? Absolutely. So it's tight on the map. I'll is it that it will it depends on how they structure Horford's heyward's contract if if they walk Actually are stretching Batum which like none of this stuff has happened yet, which is just hot. Right they have they are not stretching but you don't drink at all. I think they're trying to I think well, it was reported that was going to happen and posturing that's a lie, I think grocery now if they clear enough money, they should sign Hayward to a descending contract which would give thirty two million something as a trade exception if they were to get it assuming that there are right. I can add a whole bunch of stuff in there that that caveat but it's possible that it will create an exception big enough for bill. Now, I will be immediate question is a trade exception and what gets you Bradley Beal right now, they sort of need it to get a 2 year and have like Aaron Nesmith prove that he's like a really good young player because I don't think you can trade I don't think a Kemba Bill Tatum team is better than a Jalen like is it better than a Beale Jalen Tatum team by any means like it's not a great match between Kemba and be like you sort of have to use Kemba to get the other place. Is that are going to get people also there's a financial ramifications, you know, they're pretty Mass. There's but there's also like bills like I don't want to be here and so isn't isn't Bill what how many more years does he have like, I don't want to be here doesn't mean he he can dictate that he's going to go to a team that can't really offer that much. He's not James Harden like but anyway, he's got to drop off her more than the Celtics that right like true. Yeah, but I don't know New Orleans is going to come in a hard and be like, hey, we want to you're twenty-six and we think you're really good to go next to go next to Zion. They've been you know going they've wanted him forever if Harden thousand moved then everybody thinks that Brooklyn will be in on him. Now Brooklyn's offer isn't like amazing, but the only way that the cells can be Brooklyn's offer is by again including Jalen unless you can flip Kemba and that's where all the conversations with Drew and where they trying to flip Tempo to get parts to get through holiday and are they open to this idea are their teams that see them as being valuable? How do you put together a trade of that size mid-season? Right? Like there's so much stuff that comes into it and and wage. There's no way we can answer these questions right? It's too too far out there. I I agree that if they get the trade exception it opens up like a huge number of other possibilities also opens up the possibilities that they use it to get like a kind of okay players who make fifteen million dollars twenty million doesn't like those because salary the salary father and you don't need to hold the Trade Center or like that's the other that's another eminently possible way that this this could play out first a good trade exception. We don't and this is where I give a win for this other two are like I like how Ainge handled one situation here. I do like nothing or a trade exception over taking Myles Turner re-contract because most Turner's contract I think is going to be a net negative deal like it already is and it's not I don't think that's such a team poison pill right? It's like I'm going to have to either pay to get off it or you're going to like, yeah eventually be an expiring contract but like you're going to go into the tax or like worried about, you know group of your taxes just cuz yep. Yet you took Myles Turner on your team. When you there are white better options on your own roster. And I think the freezing the only thing that saves it potentially is is the cap inflating in the next couple of years remember years ago when they signed Avery Bradley to like 11 million dollars or something and I like freaked out. I was like why they spending this much money on Avery Bradley and then by the end of that deal it was like, oh my God, this is a bargain. But that's the only thing that saves that Turner contract which and there's no evidence that that Turner becomes the player that for eighteen million dollars is like a a good deal off and right. So we've been talking on how many of these pods about like, the the replacement cost for starting centers and Derrick Favors Emily Tristan Thompson, Emily, Aron Baynes less than the mle Dwight Howard minimum and these are going to start or select iced can start right? Kosol. Probably only found but just signed for dead. Right small amount I think the minimum maybe Serge Ibaka again. It's l a so maybe that has something maybe he's not an option for the Celtics but Emily like all of these guys have signed four thousand nine point two million dollars first year salary or less and they seem to all be for two years and like you would rather have any of those contracts over Miles Turner, I think particularly you already have ties and you have some young possibly developmental Talent life. It's just people think that Myles Turner is good. That's fine. You can believe he's good or not. It's very difficult to look at this market and think that Milestone is contract is good right and life. So, yeah, I agree that the fact that you can get Tristan Thompson. And again the fact that there doesn't appear to have been a lot of opportunity costs lost at any position other than Center for not having the mle available because you had to use it on faith and Thompson. Is you know part of something that plays in their particular again? This would be the tax Emily. They have the Bae. Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that plays in here. I do think that taking a particular has to you know, Doug McDermott home like seven million dollars you he would not play in the playoffs like you're basically saying that ground spent twenty-five million dollars this year to get Myles Turner and then $18 the next two years and there's just so many better options that you would legitimately in my opinion. Just rather take nothing off, right? Yep, which is what they did when that's fine from that standpoint. I have no issue of them playing Hardball with the Pacers on that. It's like we've just we won't be into the ground but it's the other stuff around the situation is where you know, you look closer. Let's talk about Tristan Thompson though two years. We don't know if it's guaranteed two years left or maybe it's a player option or a team option that has not came out yet. But I do having just a great offensive rebounder that can also play defense I think is pretty ideal for this team. You know, the Celtics had a lot of success with cancer on the floor dead. In the regular season in that role and we're not even chewed up defensively most nights with him just like cleaning up giving the keys to Tatum and letting him lead a bench unit. And now if Thompson you get, you know, probably a little bit less talented than Canter offensively but the same rebounder in a hundred and 1% better defense. Yeah, what I love about the Tristan Thompson signing is the Celtics finally have a guy who leads the league in pushing somebody away from a rebound and getting it and never getting an offensive call are off the ball foul. And I love it. Cuz every time I watch a game where we where the Celtics play against Tristan Thompson, I was screaming at the T being like he just shoved him like seven months and now I don't have to scream although for my luck cuz I you know was born under a black cloud. It's like that's when the graphs are finally going to start calling his push-offs like everyone talks about how he's such a great offensive rebounder, which he is, but I swear watch him for five seconds. He just grabs whatever Guys near him and throws him out of the way and grab that board. So for that I love it. Question for both of you who should start at Center. That's a great question Thompson Thompson start on Cleveland last year every yeah. Yep. He pretty much started Drummond arrived and always Drummond. He definitely did primarily but I think there probably a few games where they brought on today like arrested him like some games to routinely it's it. Honestly might be Matt matchup is 51 out of fifty Seven am yeah, so pretty much started everything. It's on one hand. It's hard for me too. I would think that the starting job would be part of the the sell job for the Celtics to get him to Boston office assume a couple of other suitors from mid-level. I imagine like Toronto and in the Lakers or may not like her since they they use their money in hero, but you know, I'm sure there are other couple playoff teams that were in on Thursday the same time they could this other sort of yeah, we're going to start you selectively you'll probably close games a lot. And yeah, the minutes are here so I for me it's probably match up based in terms of who's Sun daily basis what you think Jack's ever really match up. They somebody who says that and it's never really it's never match, but it's never starting the base this starting though is a matchup base. But if they get subbed out like very quickly and not and and that like like for immediate right? Like if racism playing in be dwell in kannur comes it like this last year then they just play can or more minutes. So you're right like yeah starting as such so irrelevant, you know in my head, but that's the way the base in playoffs playoffs or matchup base and that's really what matters so it's fair enough, but the way I think about like who starts, you know, the real thing is like who the primary Center on you know, the best lineup like I think it's almost ice Insurance because at some point does he turn into a pumpkin? He's injury-prone. I think it's very fair to say as injury-prone regardless of how much you liked him. He just is and he works really hard but he's he's what late twenty years. And already has a torn ACL already has foot issues like undersized relying on his athleticism. I just think that it's it's easy to get a guy like Tristan Thompson and say yeah, there's plenty of minutes to go around because Tice isn't going to play eighty-two games and and he's in if Tyson having a bag is it's like all right. Get out of here. It's I think it's that simple. So I agree with with I think those basic structures. I think that for me it's relatively clear that it's going to be Tristan Thompson. I don't know if he's actually a better player than types. But I think it's relatively clearly is I think that the Thompson signing is good for a couple of reasons one the last two years. They've spent draft capital in order to dump centers and I don't think yeah and it's like that those things were bad necessarily and Cantor it turned out that there was a team that would have taken him for nothing and they just sort of wrapped it into a tree that they probably would have made anyway, so they didn't really give up any Capital game. Reception to write anything on a Trade Center my concern if there is one here is that it's a real imperative now that like the Celtics start drafting really well in developing a young players for the Next Generation. They don't have any they don't have like a big stash of future draft picks. In fact, they don't have any other you know, any first round picks own, you know from other teams coming they salary cap that's going to be under it anytime soon. We've talked about Kemba as aging and and contracts at us like they need to start developing young players who are not top 10 picks that are and I wonder what this means for Robert Williams who you would hope to be, you know to be playing we're all of that sort of leads me is back to me, you know moving too early Moving Too Soon better than being moving too late wage is like, is there something that happens in season where they trade Daniel types because you can you can get another Veteran Center who you have some amount of reliability with for the minimum. You know you again we just saw I don't want Dwight Howard on the Celtics but Dwight Howard is a fine Lake was starting on the NBA champion a couple of weeks ago and he signed for the minimum and you can find other jobs do that entices has this is his last year before he's a free agent Thompson now has two years. You're probably not going to be a position where you want to re-sign Tice unless it's like he's coming back on the minimum, you know or some very small amount off basically what he's making now or less and if he's playing heavy minutes, then he's going to probably make someone not more than that. If he's not playing heavy minutes then you know, I'm Robert Williams should be playing like I think there is a way that this plays out where this is a competition between Thompson and tice where Thompson has like a pretty heavy Head Start because of his contractual status and they just they came in. Barry Roberts need they need to either trade him or play em, and they need to be playing some of their young players to develop the next era and like that's my only concern about this. Is it varies another young point that is why which is why I don't want to sign another Wing you guys keep talking about Another Wing we got Romeo and Naismith like romulans not playing for Chipmunks play until like two years. Well, that's also for wings. They need six wings seven ways. They played things all the time. You can't have Jason new Jalen and then be like, oh, yeah me going to be busy basement needs to play. I agree Romeo needs to play but there's there's a lot of minutes at the wing. There aren't a lot of minutes at 6. And and Grant is going to play some there as well. He's in place some centers going to play some you know power. Here's my question is are they going to do a lot of deviled eggs here? Like I think that they did have some success of that like no life playing Granny power forward is no big or some. Yeah. We're playing Tristan prank Tristan Thompson and Rob Williams together like Tristan Thompson hasn't started shooting threes, right? I don't you even pointed out that he started to feel like he would need to be shooting threes to play 923 last year 39% What kinda keep that percent but get the uses, you know, the the the the utilization pretty high, but I think you kind of gross. As a big then I think I'll have a lot of time that they play Grant is as a power forward, but I don't think it's in Brad Stevens his nature to want to play that way. So I agree with that might be their strengths though when guys are here right now and the last thing a lot of strength to strength. I mean it isn't but like with like Jayson Tatum like again think about the bench last year when like Grant like Tatum plus wanna make sure Grant Williams and Candor had said something like amazing, you know plus minus numbers and I feel like the formula again could be simply. Okay. Let's just get a bunch of guys. I can set good screens play good defense and offensive rebound the missus and then you know that can it's not working the playoffs against most opponents, but it can get you wins when you are when you're wings are or hurt or or non-existent yet. Yeah. I mean if you're talking about the Tatum a bench minutes where it's like Jason, you know, Jason dribbles of the left side of the Court gerbils around for a little bit and takes a couple of step back threes and like makes two of them in the course of six minutes and like that's enough to prop up the entire team and the the bench looks good, which is like, I'm Not Dead. And it was like an enormous strength of his game. Right? I'm not I'm not complaining about that. But like if you're talking about some of those minutes, okay, fine, but even then I think you're looking at Grant to be in there more than Choice Thompson and Daniel place or Tristan Thompson and Robert Williams or whatever but this all does get your sort of making the point that I'm that I'm getting at here is like if you have one too many bigs and 1/2 few wings like who is the big that you could move and like Jack Daniels, maybe if you get for him. Well, I mean, you're not you're using them in large part to to move salary possibly. But like he he is a good center, right? He's a good Center who does a ton of money and you'd be somebody would be getting his bird rights cuz he's been here long enough for that now and I don't think you're going to get a ton for him. But the you know a backup Wing is just more honorable than a backup center. And if you can get one and even if it means that you're giving up a second-round picks or your own if you're if you're looking really good at the trade deadline and for once they actually decide that they want to make a move at the trade deadline instead of just dead. Sitting on things and you're trading the 25th pick in the draft and it's like okay really what you're giving up is the 25th pick in the draft and you're Daniel. Theis is a contract right? Like I still want to go back and say who's that back up winged because because I'm like James Ennis used to be a backup wing and now he's not, you know, like there's gonna be a lot of guys who used to be backup centers in art anymore either. I know but I don't care about centers to be honest with you you're making argument for trading for considering the fact that they might be trading one of Thompson or twice and that Thompson just has a big head start as an extra year. They just signed him. He's some more proven whatever or they were they should trade Rams, right? Let's talk about that because I think when I when they made this signing at first, I was my first thought like who is Rob Williams going to be included as a sweetener with this if they have this trade exception in terms of you know, a first-round pick and Robin Williams for whatever like the the wing that you're talking about right like that debt across one of the Martin's one of the Martin's office, Chicago. They just signed be on both. So I assume not right they're bringing back beyond the minimum. Would you do that? I mean that role. Yeah. Well, I mean if you're looking for a guy who's going to just you know, I think it would be a mistake because I'm a big Robert Williams fan, but I've also said like Rod Brad doesn't go to play them then trade him. It's that simple if you're not going to plan move on like what's the purpose? Otherwise, I think he's exceptionally talented offensive Center and a weird defensive Center who isn't particularly good and that if his defense ever catches up to his offense, you have a valuable player who probably isn't going to have the profile around the league to like Garner a giant affected free-agent contract that you feel bad about paying like he becomes Myles Turner, right? And so but if you're not going to play them then it's then it's useless and you should track whatever little thing you can get for him now cuz otherwise you just wasting time. I like Robert Williams Williams Oh, no, I still want to know. What's the who's the backup Wing still here? I'll give you some games right now. I'll give you some names on the free-agent Market their life widget are going to make you ever play excited about trade. So yeah, I'll talk about that too. I just like no name who's making like five million dollars cuz that's really you know, that's the canner trade except wage and like unless it makes sense unless it's like the the bigger trade exception. You're right like with Ty snakes 5, so, you know, you're not you're not going to be you're going to be attacked. I don't think we'll go how things play out. So I'm not 75% of 5 million + you add in whatever other contract like you can very quickly get to ten million dollars. I haven't gained place to be the primary, you know, most people let's hear some names. All right. Well, I don't have this is the free agents left right now, which tells you which I think tells you that it's trying to be a trade my old kid Gilchrist. I believe still out there unless you sign up Dallas dead. CJ Miles Sefolosha Gerald Green Glenn Robinson korver's out their Stanley Johnson. It's it's bad it in guys and minimum wage is like Wayne Ellington like you can get a sharpshooter that's still out there like Galloway that maybe they'll like I know they've been they've also been linked to Shack Harrison. Like I've heard that name a lot like a link to Thursday. I mean people have been like that just like Jared one Brandy. I mean, yeah, I know I saw a bag Randi like did a like I don't know when Grady tweet something like that. Then I say thinking maybe he knows I have no interest in six months Wings, you know what I mean? If you're six four in your wing like I'm not sure what you what you're going to need at least. I mean I think is bigger. I know Tori Craig is 6-7. He was my number one. Like if you were to get it back up Messiah he designed with Finance you normally Torrey Craig be fine. That was no one you like Robert Williams, you know like Torrey Craig, come on fine. You can do I mean you can't shoot he's but he's fine. He's our great God. Defensive player. I love him. Yeah. No, I mean I'd be fine getting him. He went to Milwaukee, you know on the on the bike manual that went missing all about that would have been great, but he's gone. So this is interesting bass reference says Shakira's is 6-7. Wikipedia says, he's six four. So it's it's right odds here. I think so what college are listed mystic7 as well as quick immediately thought they all had to do that like real height thing last year. So if you go to NBA, it should be there real heavy. I believe six seven because that is makes a lot more sense for to be a defensive stopper a guy that size for a wing so I mean don't get me that's not that's not like a long-term fix. That's a maybe he'll turn into a defensive stopper that can hit a video a better version of like semi ojeleye Channel like that song. That's not too much. So for next Pride, we should all come with who the best ten million dollar Centre or Center Wing that we want is cuz I I don't think it's out there. Well, may I mean you're particularly interested in Kyle Anderson Cancer particularly on the answer. The answer is PJ Tucker is who is the one who were wanting to talk or either for Daniel theis for one more year. I mean I guess is 1000 years old at some point. He's going to be a towel guy. Well the problem with PJ's like a at the moment is that he wants an extension you go by the there it would be a question and you know, if you if you're talking about a midseason trade this is a one-for-one is Daniel Tice worth more than PJ Tucker. It would have to be Daniel theis and something right off kitchen at some point does change go back and say I'm actually willing to put something on the table at 4 mid-season trade for a rental which they haven't maybe they just will continue not to but I mean we can go around and talk about the ones who are right around there. Like right Dillon Brooks makes eleven Norm Powell makes ten some of these players aren't good teams and are unlikely to be traded right Gary lamb if he comes back from his injury, right? Jeremy Lamb is dead. Ever be any good again? Cuz he's George Hill is not a wing but he's six five and he's hanging out there now on OSHA get him that situation is the one who is sort of the one that's like that would be the most logical and now he's on this occasion fire fire. He's available should be a lot of things that are looking for now. They have no don't really have a way to get it right now. But if they were to get this big TV, then George Hill the problem is they just signed you exactly that's I was going to say like they're like in George adjusting is Larry Nance Larry Nance isn't really a wing. He makes 11 and 1/2, right TJ, Warren another Indiana guys. We've already talked about Covington just moved for two firsts like coming to next twelve P just moved from a verse Tony Snell. You could have four free. He makes 12 and 1/2 like you're talking about a whole bunch of guys here and I'm not even talking about the ones who just signed. I don't even remember who they all are Justice Winslow moved last year for Crowder and like these types of players are available. And if you're talking about theis with five million and then somebody else to sort of get you in the right range Peyton Pritchard right is going to make 2 and 1/2 like it's not So with with is Winslow still on the Grizzlies, yeah. Yeah, so that's so they're not going to want to ice but that's something that intrigues me because I'm just saying that he moved like I'm just sort of quoting a price right here Crowder you a dollar like that was I don't think they have any interest in trading in considering that they just spent quite a you know, a decent amount on him. It was a stupid trade but they made it, you know, you can check online right rhetoric is thirteen like you're getting into the amounts where it's now hard to get to you sort of kept out a like Rudy Gay makes Fourteen and Uber a just got moved like you're getting into an amount of money that's harder to match right but except that sort of nine to twelve. Well, you're using the trade exception that you don't need to be moving tight, you know, if you exactly you maybe you just get it in and you're using like first round picks, this is a better like it's a better circumstance to be out there. But my phone I do not want the team to be in a position where they're where Robert Williams clock runs out and they're playing Tristan Thompson and Daniel theis forty minutes a night and the other eight are like experimental small ball stuff with with Grant Williams. And you just sort of like hey, we've got this guy who we've now just burned three years. Like if they are if they're going to do that they should again they should trade them if they're not in their invested in actually playing him. Then Daniel theis is contract in around and you'll be in this position that I've been talking about where like, you're just seeing at the small assets big assets. You don't want them to just run out into nothing when what's important is the next five years with Jason Drake singing and all NBA player and it's like right. I'm not proposing anything in particular. I'm just sort of saying like I would like to see a little bit more Pro activity in terms of some of the things office has been doing here. But let's wrap up with rep about 5 minutes on Jeffy. But here's my you know, we do we're going to be 7:15 to 3 like every open a timer on but here's here's the the final Point here to your point. Right and what we've been talking about this with trades. I want both of you guess how many in season trades the Celtics have made wage? The last five years Brandon you go first in season in season trays to Ryan your guests. Is it one in answered answers 1001 trade and it was a salary does Jabari bird was it was it was Jabari bird at the trade mine in a salary dump. They were holding on to him cuz they were hoarding beagle. They were waiting for the see if they would be able to get him off of the books with the the domestic abuse Provisions which require a court case and so they had to sit on them until the trade deadline and then move the court system doesn't move that quickly, right? So can you go is Marcus Thornton? That was the yeah. That was 2014-15. All right. So at least I'm not insane. Okay. Yeah, that was that was that's thousand years old. They did like putting a lot of in-season Trades between 2008 and then and that's sort of what what I'm getting is like they had become much more passive at a time when they had more supporting right? Is it hurting and those pics have disappeared? It's well, like it's hard to say that they made that looks like they should move these things because they should not have moved to Jason sane and pick for Jimmy Butler, right, but they have seen a lot of things that home sort of dwindled away from the roster become nothing when like They weren't all in but they were some amounted in when they went to three three Conference Finals in four years and they haven't really done anything to show that it's almost like like a name being was looking at a scene maybe like we're not good enough. So I don't want to do anything over and over again and it's like yeah, you weren't good enough you didn't do anything. But what you didn't do anything with turned into nothing as well and you're still like in the script if you have your name, yeah, you have Daniel pick or two with outside the top ten when you hold on to all them like really implies a very nice weather is good. Remember that remember like like Sacramento was a good for a year and then there were terrible and that was the. Jetpack right or that wasn't talked about those pics though. But like in Memphis same way as Memphis going to be any good this year or they even if what about but a future first choice of your own Jack's like a pic in the 12000 know I'm totally fine giving those twenty fifth and sixth graders and they have so what did they use them for? They used one, right? They had the 20th pick and they didn't take off. Will they didn't take part they didn't take Baisley and it's like okay, they ended up with Grant Williams and he plays the same position as two of those guys and it's okay Grant Williams is an interesting people whatever app use that big they trade back they get Carson Edwards who looks basically like nothing then they use the other pic to dump veins who it turns out probably they could have moved without having to move a pic at all. He goes and has a pretty good half a season at least in in Phoenix, then they take that picture they use it to dump Canter sort of basically, they're trading out into two seconds that are you know, whatever. We'll see what they are. Like, they just have been burning the the material of what could have been in season trades on a on, you know, off-season trades that don't really provide anything and it's just sort of like again, I'm not I'm not suggesting that they should have traded initiative to Jalen or Jason for Jimmy Butler or or Paul George, but like they can be a little bit more aggressive on things including what their own star players as they come to the end of their contracts just generically dead. And I would think that that would be a good plan for someone going forward. But we want to talk about Jeff. Just a quick question real quick question. Is this just change PTSD from Trading Kendrick Perkins for Jeff Green a good trade. I think it might be a good trade. You don't open that right? All right, Jeff Teague one-year deal either for the biannual or the minimum. It's got to be the minimum. It's going to be the minimum there Bobby Mark said they still have the Bae which means that he would yeah, which he would eat something or knows? I don't really know, Um, so that if it's a minimum, I I think that's a very good sign in grad. I did, you know, Brad Wanamaker's is gone that that hurts me but beyond that I bought a big when engaged is a decent backup point guard at this stage of his career defensively. It's not going to be pretty but his a sister e-juice Is routinely in like a top 20% of point, you know of anyone in the league. And so they haven't had that, you know Creator off the bed, you know, smart obviously is good in the pick-and-roll but I bought a big is a natural pointer that can shoot the three little bit it's all comes for me. It's like all comes down to like is he going to like try on defense and stuff and hopefully on a winning environment he does I think he's slightly worse than Brad Wanamaker and athletic better fit. And yeah, if he tries on defense, they'll find a way to make that work. They're probably gonna find a way to make it work, cuz I don't really too bad. I don't know. I don't expect that Brad Stevens is going to trust being Pritchard or Tremont Waters over somebody with Jeff teague's name. He loves veterans. He loves veterans who are just sort of okay. Which is why I'm worried that they'll play Tristan Thompson is Daniel Tice over Robin Williams. I'm not as worried because Peyton Pritchard and maybe paying for sure. It'll be amazing. I don't I don't know. But yeah, I think that they could use some on Vol creation having lost a word and that there were times when they could have used it last year even with Tatum taking a big step forward, especially in the playoffs and his ability to do that cause it's not a huge position of need because of Marcus Martin because Tatum is maybe going to be a four or five assisted, you know game guidance here. So I'm fine with it. Other than that. Nobody likes watching Jeff Teague play He's Just Jeff Teague. But yeah, I think that in aggregate Wanamaker is probably a slightly better player, which is probably why he got paid a little bit more but that yeah Teague is potentially a better fit for what month. So, you know second unit Celtics teams mean I sort of feel like one of teague's best aspects or attributes is his wheels and I can't imagine he's got much of those left. And so I I I don't like the signing I think about it. Like what's the winds above Tremont Waters and I would much rather see Tremont Waters try to create. I know he's two inches shorter than Teague and he's not a veteran but it just Jeff Teague just doesn't do it for me. And if he's the 15th man, I would rather or replacing Brad Wanamaker. It's the same argument for Robert Williams. Let's get a young guy. Let's get if you're if you're happier with carsen Edwards cuz he's not in a two-way play carsen Edwards. Like see what these young guys can do getting Jeff Teague in their dead. You could probably get a veteran point guard any any point, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I agree with that like in the my preseason stuff. I had said I don't think they need to sign a point guard dog. Because again, they have Marcus Smart. They have Jason's and then they drafted a four-year senior point or another the ground and like the only reason that I'm not like bothered by it is that it's a minimum contract for one year. Yeah and like they can just release them. Yep, if it's if anybody shows the ability to do anything else, but they're going to have to rest, particularly being of the year. There's going to be a weird schedule them a short turnaround. He did not look particularly healthy in the playoffs. He needs to be ready for the playoffs and is for all that. I can agree that they should just play the other point guards. They have I don't actually believe that Brad Stevens is going to regularly start games with Fremont motor mount Waters or Peyton Pritchard, but that he might be more willing to you know, pull down the minute. He's pretty good about management. He's very good about managing minutes to be fair wage. But yeah canvas not available every night all season and okay, whatever. I'm not wild about it, but it's a minimum. I don't really care right same same except the way I look at it is you can easily slide off smart as the one and then one hundred percent I and then you could put the young guys as to and and get them, you know, 15 minutes, but again right rather be playing smart at the one and sneeze Smith at the three between Jalen and Jason or Jeff Teague smart at the to jail. You're right. Like I think you can make a very clear argument that you would rather particularly playing Nesmith are let alone the month, you know paying Pritchard or my Waters now, you've got the backup, right? But also we did just see in the playoffs like Jayson Tatum going to play on the ball. Yeah. So I agree. I don't think it's a position that needed to fill I don't know. It would be hard. It's hard to believe that they would sign him and then cut him just because he does have name around the league and like it wouldn't look great. But also who really cares they could I think love to earn his minutes. I think the fact that is a really short training camp and everybody else will have to earn your minutes. He will not have to earn his minutes Brad Stevens is Mo is that he will either one who will not have to earn it. The other guys will have to earn it from him. But I think at this point like if he sucks like yeah, yeah, like a refrigerator could be him out in camphor the backup Point like that's not something I'm not he's it's a minimum they could wave him like it's not I don't natively hopefully they learned not like the David Lee situation like four or five years ago and like not wait till You know what happens they should cut bait right in and play him and have him because he will probably not be happy with it. And then people will look at me like Jackie who's a former All-Star and they know his name and he played on the Hawks when they want a million gate read like I do not think that it would be good. If somebody else beats it out and he sits there and it's getting damn piece. They should play him or not. And I would ideally not home. But again, it's a minimum and like I'm not going to lose my mind over it. I can't believe we just like more than one and I was worried past the buzzer for us over time. The one who's defending the gym regulus, right? I love Jeff T it I'm sure nobody nobody loves me. Everybody just looks at me like a very Jeff Teague. All right, that's a good place to stop here month hit us up at winning playerzpot on Twitter. You can hit be jacks up at Jack's SOB. D That's might be cidb. That's right wage. Front of that you get in my email there to a PC. You you you can get Ryan on Twitter allowed to follow me. Follow beautiful. Ask him questions. Nobody thought okay. He's actively blocking people together follow her account down. I'm done and yet we'll be back with you guys prior a couple more times this week Rich and may I call you back for a Camry? I think on Tuesday and then we'll try to do one more pod later in the week as the full resolution to the Hayward and sign trade situation and the whole offseason talk about cuz what do you know training camp a week away guys? What is it like December 2nd or something or even going to be here in a week? I mean, that's that's a bigger question. I guess, but all right. Thanks for coming aboard guys, and we will talk to everyone next week Thanksgiving.

Tristan Thompson Celtics Myles Turner Kemba Charlotte Hayward Jayson Tatum Gordon Hayward TJ Warren Tatum 2% Bradley Beal two years Indiana Horford Jeff Teague Doug McDermott four year Ninety million dollar Brian Rob
100: A First Look at Celtics Free Agency Options (PGs and Bigs)

Winning Plays

58:16 min | 5 months ago

100: A First Look at Celtics Free Agency Options (PGs and Bigs)

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network the leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. Hey, everyone, welcome in to another edition of the winning Place podcast. My name is Brian Rob. I am joined for the first time in a little bit by the one and only Michael Pina fresh off of killing it for Jake Jake you for the last fifty much the the entire log out. But before I talk to him, we have to hand out a congratulations to new pop Rachel Dean and everyone family wage and little one are doing well at home. So yes the winning winning plays Applause from like might give you words of wisdom for Rich before we get into the pod. Someone who is not a father know I I have no words of wisdom. No advice, but rich is a wise one and I'm sure he'll do a wonderful job over the next rest of his life, I guess so obviously riches and we talked about it a couple weeks ago a rich will be on on Dad Duty for the next 6 weeks. Ryan. Tony has been graciously pinch-hitting as a guest Coast as well. Mike will be able to be in as well as the off season gets going here too. But we have a we're heading into what could be a very quick NBA offseason here. You know, I think some of us thought we would be waiting around till till February or March initially when the season ended that quickly has turned off to potentially starting before Christmas, but we haven't talked to you since the Celtics season has came has come to a closed and there has been a lot of birth. But in the last several weeks about what this team should do. We obviously it was dissected Gordon Hayward trades to death here in the last week along with other scenario name is Jake us back to reality here to start. Where where do you see this team is at heading into this offseason what you know, what do you want to see the stuff house though? I didn't really know for me. I mean, I don't know if I'm in the majority or the minority or what the The Vibes are right now everything I read they usually geared towards they need an upgrade of some kind you mentioned the Gordon Hayward trades and you know packaging draft picks off and trying to add an an impact player right away. I mean really I kind of just am fine with Gordon opting in to his contract. And Jaylen Brown being better Kemba Walker being healthy Marcus Smart being Marcus Smart, and I guess so then like the number one priority for me would just be to sign Jayson Tatum to a five-year maximum contract and you hopefully you get that 50 year with no player option and you're able to negotiate that in there and then you just are a contender next season through your internal Improvement. And so I think just building around them are genes may be adding, you know wisely using your I think it's going to be the taxpayer mid-level, right like five point seven million dollars somewhere around there. We don't really know the exact figures office right now, cuz the NBA is in a tornado. But yeah, just you know, there's a lot of first round picks, so maybe you want to trade off. Up. Maybe you want to trade back into later drafts. I don't know what their mentality is going to be. They obviously need to worry about the luxury-tax going forward with Jayson Tatum about to make all the money. He's about to make but I don't really like there's nothing major that needs to happen in my opinion. Yeah, so I agree. I mean, I think that's the most likely path just based on, you know, the Hayward situation of terms of where he can't wear a buzz that was talked about by his actual last week, you know amount to whether that's just simply his agent testing the market and finding out there's not much there are weather Hayward actually wants to you know, play somewhere else be on next season if that if that happens then you know, I do think you have to look into moving him if he is not going to be around wage, you know be on next season and he makes that clear but other than that, I think your your path is the the most direct one. So I think it comes down to fortifying the bench a lot. Out, you know, you have between the draft picks and some younger players on the roster. You do have a few chips to play left and they're important ones because you're I mean the drafts treasure change. Assets runs out in two months like you have no more extra first-round picks after this draft. So would you and I feel like you for trading out for future picks. I feel that given that you know, the high school players are going to come into play in the next couple of years. I feel like he was probably aren't going to want to trade future picks for once and what's supposed to really like mediocre draft here. Potentially. Yeah, I mean that might be a tough one to swing for sure. But I just think that how they're financially set up right now. You're going to need value out of like rookie deals going forward minimum contracts and Ricky deals. So like I don't know how you hit and maximize the value on these pictures, but it would just be a real like I don't want to them to go down the same path as the you know, guerschon yabusele draft. We're home and okay. Yes, were you kind of like picking guys for reasons that are you know, potentially a draft-and-stash situation or something like that? I don't know. But yeah, I mean You're just going to need to find value with these pics and it's not ideal in this year's draft from everything that like I've read about this year's draft to have this many firsts and I draft that might not have the type of impact player right away, but they just need to hit with this draft. It's pretty important. So, let's start off the bench though, if we're if if we're assuming that the top sticks are coming back, which I think is a you know, I put it at probably between eighty and ninety percent at this point. We'll say I think the only other piece that could conceivably moved aside say a word is like a smart and I think the odds of that are very low for, you know, given how much the the front office and ownership is a is a huge fan of him. So who like this team has twelve guys under contract dead. Coming back for next year, there's obvious pieces to move on from in terms of like Vincent but beyond that like who who do you watch like, who do you want to be in the rotation next year coming back? And who do you want to be counted on and who like and what areas do you just want them to Target on the bench whether it is in the draft or free agency to like cuz there's there's going to be a roster go out there and you probably want to make decisions on that sooner rather than having, you know, too many pieces on your bench that do the same thing. Like they kind of had last year times. I yeah for sure. Um, I mean, I think that in terms of who's coming back that I'm kind of excited about to see their impact and their Improvement I think both of the home link Grant Williams and Robert Williams are two really important players for the organization in the front court. And then Grant Williams is just kind of whatever position he needs to play off. Especially on the defensive end. So I think those two are really key and then Robert Williams if he takes a leap at the Five Spot and he's just able to give you consistent with 20-plus minutes potentially and spend times where their bigs aren't playing or hurt or whatever. That's just like a huge luxury to have with his athleticism and what he brings to the defensive end. So affected about those two, I think and then I'm intrigued by Romeo Langford being in the rotation this season and I mean, it's really funny to like go back and think about that game where he got subbed in in the bubble and the playoffs and then he immediately makes like one I think he drove Baseline and the gray play the play the game is really smart play right away gotten assist. But and then he immediately heard himself and was not seem Again, so I think it was just like a really rough rookie for him. But like I'm not trying to compare him to Tyler hero, but the possibility of having a rookie on your team who can contribute in a big game is real and so, you know, the expectations aren't through the roof for him. But the fact that he was even in that game subbed in in the second line off was pretty I mean that was you have to have a lot of confidence in him if you're Brad Stevens, so I'm intrigued by him positionally and what he can bring to the table going forward particularly of Gordon. If this is his last season upcoming if this last they don't re-sign him and kind of lose him for nothing or trade him at the trade deadline or whatever. They do with him Romeo kind of coming into that spot is pretty Pretty fascinating in my opinion given his pedigree and then like like, I don't know where honestly like in terms of finding a piece. I mean, I think that they would need another ball-handler for sure. And so I don't really know if that ball handler needs to be someone who's more of a set-up guy or more of a kind of an offensive spark plug, but that's the type of Peace. One of the one of the two I think is the type of peace that they should be looking at with their mid-level if they do have a lot of faith in the young pieces that they have already in the front court and the two Williams. I'm calling them like The Williams Brothers just cuz it's like easier, but I know that they're not related but The Williams Brothers dead, so we're it is going to be so actually just wrote about looking through the point guard like mid-level market and It will be well, first of all, are you done with Brad Wanamaker? Cuz if not, we're if we're going to have some words if you are. I I don't want to say I'm done with him. Like what money are we talking? Is he coming back in the vet on a better job of the veterans room. So like I don't think he's in yet much more than the veterans been known to be honest. So it's like that he can be restricted if the Celtics want him to be home and I can't imagine him costing in in this market costing more than the Veteran's minimum. Like he's he played well, but not well enough to get like a real con serious like long-term contract I think would be interesting for from his perspective to come back depending on the other moves that they make like if they want to upgrade at that spot and add some depth if I was spread want to make a month. I don't think I would come back to Boston because I want to play right? So like what what are some names? I have a couple of names just like off the top of my head, but what if Some names that you like some guys that you wrote about who you think could be valuable in in that part of the rotation. So this if you're just looking at point guard there's if you're thinking offense first for mid-level money, I think that the best name on that list conceivably in that price range is DJ Agustin. A proven 3-point shooter who can distribute is a size liability from defensive standpoint. I can't see any team giving him more than middle maybe at this point in his career. He wants to win. So he takes a little bit less to come be, you know play a meaningful role, but he maybe he wants to start somewhere and that's not going to be in Boston, but that's probably the best name in terms of pure, you know, passing and shooting down on the list. Um, I'm not sure if that makes sense for this team though when you already have another six foot point guard Kemba Walker dead. Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of interesting to kind of tie into this conversation what's happening with the schedule going off and how fast the season is going to be in the regular season and how much teams are going to need to load manage their veterans. And so Kemba Walker is someone who I would doubt is going to be playing and all 72 games or fifty or whatever it is. I think that that's someone that they're really going to be given the money that he's owed money given what happened with his knee and the bubble in his performance down the stretch of a playoffs. Like that's someone who I'd want to manage and kind of massage his way through the season as much as possible. So I'm not too worried. If I were to sign teach it they'd be kind of like replicating each other in terms of size. And that's not what you want. I don't think DJ would be on the floor at the end of a playoff game regardless, so I'd be fine with it. I'm a fan of his uh had a little bit of a Down shooting here compared to his previous two years, but like he's just a really good outside shooter really like competent set up man. So I like that I like that pic. Can I throw a name at you? Who I don't know who I don't know if you would be available. Financially, it would have to take a pay cut but someone who recently said that he's really wanting to prioritize winning at this stage in his career and that is is one of my least favorite players. So it's kind of funny that I'm saying this but that is Jeff Teague. Yeah, he is on my left to owe them in terms of like mid-level off. I don't like I'm not even sure he's going to get a full in mid-level just base. I mean maybe he just watched like maybe you get him engaged somewhere which Minnesota in Atlanta weren't good places for that for him the last couple of years, but It's he when he would throw out Atlanta Minnesota's where you look at it and you're like, okay they were and there were all sorts of issues going on there. I guess home for him. If you wanted to talk offense. He's an interesting piece. If you want to see a guy just Diane screens visibly. He's also your man. Very fair, very fair. That's a name that yeah. I haven't been too and he's getting up there in age a little bit even though I'm older than him which makes me feel really depressed. But but he's getting up there a little bit and I was never even really a huge fan of his like even when he was an All-Star in Atlanta that one year. Yeah something about 5 a.m. Just has always kind of rub me the wrong way, but it just we're talking pure talent at 5 million dollars for one year like that's sure like Adam to what they have. Cuz I mean again, I'm just like I don't think they need to hit a home run with whoever they sign. I think whoever they sign used to just come in off like Fill a very narrow Lane of competence because I think that the the heaviest lifting will be on I think Jalen's going to take another leap. I think it's going to be an All-Star and I think that Tatum's going to take like a sizable sleep. So like the heavy offensive like I don't need this do to only Jeff need to come back to take ten shots of game, right? I don't so that's the kind of guy. You're right. That won't be stealing shots from the guys you want like he can shoot but he doesn't necessarily want to shoot he wants to pass first which day works here. And so it's in for before you go in the morning. It's like I think the more interesting thing for me in terms of like where you want to use this money heading into free to see if you're the Celtics Is like I don't mind Marcus Smart the point guard either and so part of me wonders like okay, if you're bringing another point guard then that kind of pushes Marcus off the ball more on offense are mean, you know, you obviously it's never bad to have multiple ball-handlers in the floor. But it it pushes them a guy like Teague would push him away from primary Paul Haley duties name is on the floor and I'm not sure I want that like with like I would almost be just as well being like all right smart. I want you going back to running the pick-and-roll and send them guys cuz you're pretty good at it. Wouldn't that was your main focus is but it is at the same time. It's nice to have that flexibility when you know, when you're you said when you're managing Kemba to have the extra pure ball-handler that you know, if she can slide in there then you can keep smart coming off the bench if you want, but I have two other names then that are kind of different skill-sets, but are functionally similar positions one would be Austin Rivers. Who I don't know. What's up player option for him? The max the max Austin Rivers, I you know, I I like his I don't know what his markets going to be in his situation coming out of Houston and he played a very specific type of basketball the past couple of years and it would be a very different brand in Boston, but he's a bucket getter really good 3-point shooter or pretty good 3-point shooter and like that's someone who can play off the ball game has a lot of experience playing off the ball and minutes with James Harden and I don't know I I like I really liked him the last couple of years with you soon as closely as I did and like I thought that it was a mistake Mike D'Antoni made not to close games with Austin Rivers. I thought it was one of their better like what he does for you dynamically is really important and he's dead. A pretty solid defense like defensive player who gets after it. He's not a bad Defender by any means so I like Austin Rivers and then also someone who's just a little slider but a really good shooter and can come off pin downs and stuff and and can you can play Marcus Smart at the point guard spot and have him handle the ball a lot is Langston Galloway. Yeah. It's just a really good shooter and you can't have enough shooting in today's league. So that's someone else I would I would look at and see kind of what's going on. The way family over football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline been online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get it on everything imaginable the season from game spreads and total team player and coaching props. Been online gives you more options to wager than any place online. You can get it on their season-opening bonuses today and start off wagering on wind vision and Championship Futures as well head to bed off. 9 today to take advantage of all the great sign-up bonuses BetOnline your online Sportsbook experts. Yeah, that's really good. You know, if they don't find that shooter, you know in the draft, I think galway's is a very logical fit in terms of just having someone to defenses have to pay attention to which this team really hasn't had off the bench in a month or you know, they've kind of turned away from it since the the reality is Does does Reggie Jackson have anything left from what you watched the Clippers? in the postseason I don't think Reggie Jackson is like washed up by any means. a good buy-low Target You know, it's kind of an indictment that and maybe it's not fair to Reggie. But the Doc Rivers after the Clippers were eliminated said that the number one thing they needed was a point guard and then I think Kawhi Leonard Echo the sentiment basically like someone who could get the team in a functioning offense in a half-court set and run actions. And so like I don't know how you view Reggie Jackson. I mean name is nominally a point guard. So it's a little bit of shade but at the same time he's more I think been more Score first because we shoot first guy wherever he's been writing and I think like but I mean like he's like he's an okay shooter and as a spot-up threat, he was pretty good with the Clippers after they got him. I don't know like it's something about the shot selection and his understanding of where he's at in the hierarchy. I don't think it would be a good fit. That's a guy who could take would be steal you away shots for the guys. He'd one. I think like if like him a Jordan Clarkson who I feel like is going to get mid-level money to Utah could bring him back. But that's the kind of guy that I think they'll stay away from knowing that the offer as much as he's going to help you in certain games. She's also going to you know, keep Tatum and Brown from averaging twenty two twenty five shots and night on certain points, which I don't think the seats want from BC though. I mean Jackson for sure like there was your boy the last few Glory Days of BC basketball was liberated Jacksonville Florida and it feels like ten years ago cuz it was so that is a very sad. All right. So that's those are like the offense first kind of backward options defense-first mid-level guys off. Most of these guys are restricted. Kristen doesn't really make sense. I feel like unless you're moving out for smart for some reason which I don't see happening cuz done I love them so much choice, but I agree. It's just it's, you know smart at the end of his career first jump shots, you're looking at a 30% three-point shooter that really can't do much else and I don't think You know, that's enough of an upgrade on the Wanamaker to pull that trigger. What? Michael Carter-Williams another Orlando guy kind had a Resurgence down there again, you're not this is a this is a strictly a defensive pick up but I do think the Celtics could use, you know, another guy like this for the right money. I don't think you'd pay a much more than the minimum to be honest, even if that I may be dead be your only offered but he did seem to kind of break down in Orlando after a pretty rough few years around the league and it's he is a Massachusetts native. So that would be fun if he if he want to come back here, but I'm not sure there's enough opportunity from here to do that. Yeah, not a huge fan of that. My you know, I think it's more just like he reminds me so much of what I like his ceiling as a player is kind of what Evan Turner was a few years ago Brad Bradshaw get me here then because that's what I'm saying is like then just sign Evan Turner, right? Yeah. So but yeah and that I don't think that that's in the cards. Maybe it is I don't know but not for the mid-level but this is not funny. I kind of I kind of feel like yeah, Michael Carter-Williams getting in the mid like I don't know who would pay me. He needs a guard who can't shoot still like yeah. I just I feel like I'm surprised if he gets over to Vin minimum from anyone like maybe he'll get like a two-year six million dollar deal from you know, some team wants like divided up their mid-level or something like that. But even that seems like a good size rep, but you get I mean that's for defensive versatility is what you get it before but and the other like Guy and I'm not he's restricted in he's again, this is more like a minimum or slightly above minimum signing Jevon Carter in Phoenix off like they have cap room out there like and he is a great light ball Defender. He can't do anything on offense but like take three years, but he actually hit a bunch of Threes this year and he was like 38,000 from 3. That would be I mean the Celtics need another three-point shooter. And if the Sons used their cap room somewhere else, I can't see them letting him walk because he's probably not going to cost much but if they took a bigger fish and try to open up cap room for maybe he you know slips through the cracks, but that'd be a nice just like defense as mighty guy that can shoot some 3, so I'll put it down your bench. Yeah. Well, I mean I don't have anything against Ron Carter and I love the design. I think almost positive be sent to an one cuz he wears the Tenchi sneakers so loud shout out to him for that but it's kind of like this weird Duality where you're kind of like, okay the players that I want to sign. I want them to be kind of like stock caps during the regular season for Kemba or whoever, you know in case of injury et cetera, but then also like I need this dude to play really well, um in his minutes and his role in the playoffs and cuz like we're trying to win a championship, so can this guy be on the floor in the NBA finals or the Conference Finals is kind of a question that I would be asking before I signed anybody and I don't I don't know. Like he's never played a playoff game in his career. I'm not saying that he couldn't but knowing the bubble, Mike ain't no in the Beaufort those Sons. Yes. Undefeated. Yeah. No it is way off. Let that thought they were the best the best team in the bubble. They were better than the Lakers my opinion now, so like I don't know like it's it's an intriguing name for sure. All right. So here's the final grab bag of minimum guys and to see if anyone like these are all guys that break in case of emergency end of the bench, but you want to throw them for five or ten minutes in a playoff game. They might be able to give you something or just give you a confident minutes your favorite guy. Brandon Knight's Brandon, Atlanta, Georgia, I mean Isaiah talking about the top of the list in terms of these guys. Is he on your list? Technically. Yeah, like he's he I mean I went through pretty much all the point guards. So we'll start Isaiah Thomas. So technically everybody is on the list. I mean and I I don't think you can I think it would be really nice to see like, he's one of the most beloved like Catholics. In Boston in the past decade that's like a fair statement to say, I think it's a little if you were to actually bring them back. I think that's the great concern at least maybe concern is too strong but like for me from looking at the outside, like he's leave he left as this heroic figures a year who is deeply connected to Boston Beloved the leader of the team like After every game that's where the Press is going. That's whoever wants to talk to. And so if he comes back, it's just like this weird chemistry thing took a bubble at some point and that would be like my I'm not saying that it would or wouldn't that's just like a thing that I think about before I would bring Isaiah back and how I guess strange might seem if it was even possible but like on in terms of like basketball like who knows what he has left and who knows. I mean, I know he had the surgery and I was working out and I think Seattle right now. I don't know how he looks so. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's not going to happen like here. I hope it happens during summer. It's just not like cuz that off with the with the baggage potential baggage that you mentioned from a just a, you know, a chemistry slash hybrid in the standpoint. And with the I mean there's also we're forgetting about like Tremont Waters like wage roster spot here, too. So you're not going to like You know pick Isaiah, I think over Waters a guy that you're you've kind of groomed for the last year and want to give a shot to but I hope I mean, I'm sorry did its job. I hope he's going to get a chance somewhere next year. It's gonna be tough for him. To be honest. I think it's going to be really like 33% of players in the NBA are going to be free agents next year and month. You look at that and the I think the the squeeze that a lot of these guys are going to feel and free agency not even just to like make money to even like find open roster spots because if you just, you know a factor in the draft and everything like that's guys are going to get squeezed out and which makes it even tougher for a guy like Thomas remember and get another shot. So it's it's it's going to be fascinating to see who like which which of those veterans get those chances. Yeah, for sure. How many guys do you have on this list? Cuz I actually have a big who is really intriguing to me that I want to talk about. But if you want to run through the shower, so it's still it's long. This will be one man here either names that are out there your favorite guy. Brandon Knight. Yes Boy Yes The One That Got Away The One That Got Away probably took from opportunity. So I'd say no Trey Burke who actually played really well for the Mavs a guy that Sixers probably could use in that playoff series loss. I he's probably the only other and then beyond him Yogi Ferrell and another small guy whose best days might be behind him long as you have your Roxbury native would be a fun story that you had a good year and with the Wizards again another undersized can we play defense? So not much their home and then two guys, I have no interest in dellavedova and Emmanuel mudiay now, so not like Not really an impressive crop. I mean a couple of like Augustine a couple of decent guys at the top of the list for me lonely, but I'm not even sure you're better off. You're putting your resources your helps you too much compared to other positions. Like potentially a big which you might have something for us on your hands here. Yeah, I always have a soft spot in my heart for Brandon for reasons. We don't need to get into it. But you know, I talked to earlier about Robert Williams and Grant Williams and I don't know what they're going to do with the 5 with some of the bigs that were on the team last year but someone who's ridden a really intriguing and this isn't like a surprising name. I don't think anyone has been following this stuff over the past couple weeks is Harry Giles and he's basically Jason to his best friend, right? He was the number one Prospect in that class before multiple knee surgeries kind of derailed him a little bit and when you've been held at least favorite by the way, get the oh, yeah, we're not just in terms of like going after guys that were highly rated in high school and saw their stock drop. Sure, exactly the market inefficiency. So yeah, just like as a big man who I mean he's had a lot of health issues in the league. He's played for the most dysfunctional one of the most dysfunctional organizations different coaches different playing Styles different teammates. So it's kind of really hard to gauge just what we have here, but I think when you combine, you know the player he was supposed to be with what he has looked like in spots when he's finally been able to be healthy and being a rotation and in a starting lineup for multiple weeks at a time. His skill-set is just like really impressive and I love and I know I know Brad really likes as well like big suit can pass. He's a really good passer really smart ball mover and you can throw Tim at the elbows and we'll hit back Cutters and stuff. He has a decent jumper and it's just a really that would be just a really fascinating piece to have and if you hit with him, then it's like striking gold. So that's something I'm really a fan how much you going to give him given me like the full text pyramid levels like $6, you give them like half of that like, what do you think is well, I think some team lots of roll a dice on him cuz he's still only 22 right like If I was I mean it get what it where it gets interesting is like from his side. How long do you want the contract to be? You know what? I mean? Like how long before I get to hit the open market again. So the number of years is really interesting to me. Even more so than the money cuz I mean I would give them the full taxpayer if I was a Celtics. I think I have to think a little bit more about that and you know see what else is available. But as long as someone who I have to definitely interested in in exploring a little bit deeper, especially like the name of the game is keeping your franchise player happy that's like really the most important thing that you have to do in the NBA right now. So Jason Tatum is like I really want to play with Harry Giles and you have an opportunity to make that happen and you make it happen. That's just kind of what it is. So you sign it and he has a breakout year and then you can't keep him know exactly. That's where it gets G. Like how many years would you offer? I think how many years can you offer with a taxpayer? I think it's three is three years. Yeah. So do you offer him, you know three year was it be like sixteen million dollar contract or something like that? I mean, that's fine. If you're the Celtics in my opinion, I don't think maybe the third year is like is non-guaranteed or it's a it's a team option or a player option or whatever. So I just think that that's someone worth definitely worth discussing in a conversation like this. Yeah. It's I can't believe the Kinks turned down his fourth year option. First of all, well, yeah, they're idiots. Sure. Like what the guy who did it is no longer there. Yeah. I mean, I guess that it's like we gotta see that four million dollars while you're given like 22 to Buddy hield in this guy is five years younger. But yeah, you're right like the there is off. Clearly untapped potential here jobs are really good. Rebounder really good finisher at the rim and like you said his was shot 39% from outside of Sixteen fifty three point range didn't really didn't take any fries, but there is a semblance of a jump shot there. So, I could see him being a pretty like that seems to be like a pretty good compliment to like Grant Williams at the power forward spot slash center with Rob Williams there in terms of like, you know, you can kind of chain mix and match those three guys on a nightly basis conceivably depending on what you need in your office that night or if you want to focus on defense, you know, you play Grant 5 and you you go smoke. Yeah. That is a from a team standpoint. I do think it will be, you know, if if signed jobs get stabbed to sign that, you know, fifty or find a player option. Then you get that you get that contract ready to go. I think if you're getting aged one hundred percent, do you what are your thoughts just generally about like the big man need money. I think it's overstated. What are you where do you feel feel? I'm sure you've discussed this many times before but like where is the point of their needing an upgrade on this roster in your opinion? I think the biggest is just another reliable Wing slash backcourt player that you can play in the postseason off because I don't think you're going to get a meaningful upgrade. I mean like Giles I could see taking a chance on cuz he's young and you can if you sign for three years you could get some real life out of that. But for me when you look at what happened last postseason, and it was like, oh we you know guys got hurt if we had a full roster guys have found heard every postseason for this team for the last month or year. So I think you can't you have to have you have the opportunity now where you if Harry comes back, you know, you have a strong corn place where you have to give yourself a better back up there than just like Brad Wanamaker who to be honest. I thought like over keep for a lot of that playoffs was shooting and stuff, but then when push came to shove in that Heat series you really couldn't you know his Slaughter exposed so whether that's just a versatile Wing, whether that's you know, a true point guard that can you know shoot in distribute and not be a huge hole like with someone you can throw in. So when the heat throw that 2-3 zone out you or whatever else they try to do or throw double-teams at Tatum or whatever else. You don't have to be dependent wage. On you know smart taking threes to like get you out of it. That's fair. That's all very fair. The what do you think do you think it's would you rather have just the big and then like cuz I'm not sure. If that how much that solves your issues in the postseason like a mid-level big. Yeah. You know, it's really interesting to me is just like the watching maybe it was just the finals in that particular matchup off but one of the interesting wrinkles that I thought was on display in the playoffs in later rounds in particular was like guys on the floor who took wings or big guards or whatever who could just get attacked relentlessly on the defensive end by having their man who ever they regarding was going to set up all screen for Jimmy Butler or is it a ball screen for LeBron or setup Austrian for you know, jammal Murray or whoever it was and that wage of like how offenses were really like attacking in spots in for like big chunks of the later rounds of the playoffs and so yep. Think like what I'm trying to say is that you whoever you bring in you really can't have someone who gets just so exposed on that end of the floor and they're not like home cooking Robinson was on the floor getting just brutalized but he's also the best shooter on the planet right or in the bubble. So that's what's keeping his minutes alive life. I think that that is just a really important General thing that you need to be wary of if you want to win a title now and if you are going to be going to the finals or the Conference Finals or whatever you're going to have to you're going to go up against a player who's probably like LeBron or like Kawhi who will hunt down matchups that they want. And so I think that that is just generally a big deal and I wish that the Celtics did it more offensively against the Miami Heat in the Conference Finals, but wage Hey, Tom, was just too young I guess. Hirsch lessons, but you're right it is it's like finding and the amount of those type of guys available in free agency, especially this year are low. So they're going to be highly doubt, you know, saw sought-after even a guy like, you know, we talked about Galloway like You know you hope his three-point shooting would outweigh his defense of well. She's not like a terrible Defender, but he's definitely not a Plus on that side. So you have to find just a perfect. You know, like you said when I talked to the guy who's you know strengths outweigh the The Faults for whatever the fifteen twenty minutes. He's on the forward and matters. Yeah. So any other sneaky? Biggs you like before we move on to just the some big picture NBA stuff to wrap up not really I what's what's Aron Baynes his deal. Is that what you could you see something like that happening or would he cost too much money here? Cuz he would be really valuable. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense from a selfish perspective. I would think he gets more than the taxpayer mid-level. I think someone would give him like he made enough threes last year to write think somebody was like the MVP of the first month of the Season which was insane because it looks give this other clearly game away. But obviously then he came back down to earth and injuries cropped up which they tend to do with him. So, I mean the sun's it'll be interesting by the sun's do they could easily bring him back. He's good insurance rates and obviously fits their wage, um, but they might have, you know, bigger fish to they want to go after via trade or in free agency itself. So, If he does miss, you know, I he would I would go after him if he's on the market for the Celtics but I don't think he's going to be available to them at a price. That's they can afford tragic granted, but there is I mean you look at the number of bags. I'd rather quickly like you know Bach is probably going back to Toronto cuz they need you know, if they're losing to solve their in need him off. Tristan Thompson will be highly sought-after. Derrick Favors will be out there again all these teams going to be re-signed but especially favors. I'm not sure they're going to he makes too much sense for them. And then my my love affair with Derrick Favors like And mustard namakkal it is it's so deep. I I would basically react the same way if they sign if they ever sign Derrick Favors as they did when they signed kg like just took Derrick Favors just like the missing ingredient, but it's like but really when we talk about like Biggs, you know. At this is kind of a a segue into our next conversation. But like the Philadelphia 76ers aren't going anywhere. Nope, Joell embiid. Maybe you know, maybe Daryl Morey trades Jerome it for James Harden and then you don't have to worry about it. But Joell embiid is in your conference in your division, you know, they've gone up against the Sixers what twice or three times in the last like five years? Yeah. So that's someone who especially, you know, I would imagine that they are going to have a much better and more sensible Supporting Cast because Daryl Morey is now the guy making those decisions and finding those players and he's really good job essentially it in his star-power. So you're not going to just be able to double-team Joell embiid and he's going to throw the ball away. It's not going to be like that. I think next year and Doc Rivers the coach now and I'm a big fan of him. So got to worry about him. So we talked about like Biggs and how the big man Market isn't that crucial and you wouldn't want to spend too much on a big I think finding someone who can bother Joell embiid in the post without like in single coverage a little bit is like it's integral bridge and so that you know veins and favors would be a pretty strong one to their Tristan Thompson also could be in that mix cancer did a respectable job 1,000 MB but that was with his entire Supporting Cast being gone. So I mean Canada's future in Boston is I'd say if he thought but if he, you know, if he's gone, then you're going to you're gonna have to look at One of the those guys I mentioned are I mean can although there's probably a bunch of you know, veteran-minimum Biggs, like none of them. Can I used to your point in life can really guard and beat or bother and be slightly in one-on-one coverage. So it's like tough to break out in that for insurance when when you're in need of it's not going to be very useful right like someone like just off the top of my head like Mason Plumlee sure intriguing big like wage really good paths et cetera. I think he'll be too expensive and I don't know about his post defense in a matchup like that, but the armor Bismack biyombo that's that's what you're looking at. Sure. Sure. Yeah, so that's I take can't you're over that if given the choice, but all right you what's let's go to Maury to wrap up here in just the big picture situation with that the I wrote about a little bit of both sports with like the same division is already Tough Enough like going forward with Toronto braintrust looking as good as ever and they have some options going forward Brooklyn with Khadijah you back and Kyrie getting healthy Steve Nash jury's out there, but you'd think that That's Mike D'Antoni Mike D'Antoni and I are right like the offense is good should be Sensational. They're given the wage over there. And now you have more you going to a situation in Philly. That's a it's a bit of a mess. But he's a pretty creative guy that can you know maximize off. Century and with a lot more resources than he had in Houston every and so all this to me is just like, you know, the Celtics that the the road just got tougher laws in terms of getting out of the East for the foreseeable future and you know getting through from that crew and then obviously Milwaukee in Miami. I don't really know who like I can't it's too early to to order these teams. Honestly, I mean, we're it's before the draft him before the offseason for like of course, it is too early but not Brooklyn has to be respected because of the best two players and most predominately their best player who might be the best place to be Mike Harris albertine Kennedy. Exactly. Yes Spencer Dinwiddie and Philly Toronto, Miami Boston Milwaukee. It's just kind of honestly a test up to me with how these teams are going to shake out in the playoffs not so much the regular season, but the playoffs I think song. The situation in Philly is not that terrible. I mean if you're Daryl Morey the first thing you do when you go in there is Faith. You gotta move on. You gotta find some way to get rid of Al Horford and you had to find you potentially like if I Was Daryl more a month like before I try to move on from Simmons or indeed. I would look at the data from you know, previous regular season's worth of Lee and see that they've had success before it's all about finding the right pieces to compliment them. And if that still doesn't work then you can I think you'll figure out who which one you want to keep in which one you want to build around etcetera, but like moving Horford. What's really interesting. Is it Maury For The First Time in Forever hath He has a draft pick in this year's draft. I think it's from the Oklahoma City Thunder because Philly's own pic is going to Brooklyn. I'm pretty sure yes, that's great. And then he has all of his own going forward, right? So getting off of I don't think it's like, you know Horford's contract is bad Horford is not you could easily buy into office or a there's a lot. I think there are several teams around the league that would be like that contract is not desirable if we're getting a pic with it and it's still you know, Al Horford. It's not like a carcass. It's a player who you could be like this guy was not in an ideal situation last year. It was playing out of position. They were times where he was at the five and they the Philly was fine perfectly fine. Still like a pretty good player. So I think getting off for Ferd is not going to be that difficult for someone like Daryl Morey, I think. I think everybody else should like have their bags packed and ready to go. So I think someone like Josh Richardson would be a really attractive trade piece that teams would be interested in and I could see him moving. I guess who Daryl moving I could see viable being attached to a Tobias Harris with a pic and seeing what you can get off. Cuz if I'm Philly like I had I could have won the title that Jimmy Butler as my third guy. So if I'm are you shaking your head or stereo? It's true. It's like it's like you you literally traded away you gave away just dollars or Josue person referred and Harris for like twice the money, which is just Screwed you up on so many levels. Yeah, so if I can just rewind and I'm not going to get Jimmy again, but like honestly that team could win the title if they had a bunch of like competent shooting and CJ McCollum as the third guy honestly. Usually when the title if Joell embiid bought in and if I am, I guess just Ben Simmons kind of I'm not going to say learn how to shoot is just terrorist himself honestly, and he's he's this, you know, if he's like playing like one of the best defensive players in the NBA, which she is like, I don't know. I think that with enough spacing Like which is easier said than done to add around those pieces, but with spacing it could be like a devastating team. I think like the whole going big idea. Like that's just thought that was a one-and-done situation. They're all more is going to invest in shooting he's going to invest in I would imagine some more ball-handling and he's going to he's like Garden Philly like that would be yeah, that'd be great for years. They're probably going to get one and like all you gotta do honestly, like I said this before but everyone talks about Ben Simmons need to shoot and I think he needs to shoot that's straight up in the playoffs. Just a different ball game. If you want to be a primary ball-handler but seemed like they would be so much better. If Doc Rivers went to Joell embiid. It was like guess what you're not shooting from the mid-range like that's gone from your diet and this is Jim. We're investing in and this is what we're going to prioritize going forward. Like all of a sudden there are fences that much cuz those are all wasted possessions there just are and so you take those away drawing such a special player. I just think like you can't count out Philly. I don't think Philly will look anything like they did last year and that's I think a scary and you still with the amount of talent they have with your top two guys. That's a scary proposition because they have never been effectively utilized. I think, you know during their break out to your point home. Yep, and that is why when you're in the Eastern Conference Finals against the Miami Heat, you should have probably be there in Miami Heat and girls house everything changes every year so dramatically in the NBA, it's true and soon enough. We should be able to analyze what that NBA season next year will actually look like home and recording this on Friday now and um at some point hopefully by the end of week maybe by the time you listen to this day of you know, the league and the Players Association or up settled on a schedule and free agency numbers and all that good stuff, but we'll we'll be revisiting that in the upcoming weeks here as we get you ready for the draft and free-agency on the wing place. In the meantime hit us up at winning plays pot on Twitter. You can get my cat Michael V peena on Twitter. I'm at a priority Rob off. And make sure you rate review subscribe to The Wedding Place podcast. Cuz if you're listening right now, then you really should be you know, keeping track of this cuz you made it. That's about it. Mike will get back you think this is going to get done over the weekend or the next week. What do you think? We're going to actually have some Some hard numbers to talk about from Billy cried perspective. I would imagine like next week you have to because if the season starts on the 22nd of December training camp what like it just need the teams need to be ready very Nago December 1st. So yeah the pension that we gotta get something going sooner than later. Lakers are going to show up the trade can be like December 15th and just play their G league for the first two weeks of the regular season. That's a prediction here. But everyone on the roster except wage James Thomas. All right. Well, that'll do it for us. Thanks for listening and we will catch you guys next week.

Grant Williams Celtics Jayson Tatum Austin Rivers Kemba Walker NBA Marcus Smart Robert Williams Gordon Hayward Boston Reggie Jackson Brad Wanamaker Brian Rob Michael Pina Jake Jake Rachel Dean Williams Atlanta Jaylen Brown 50 year
82: What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward injury?

Winning Plays

37:13 min | 8 months ago

82: What's next for Celtics after Gordon Hayward injury?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns Via Network the leading online provider for the India is winning his franchise. They're welcome back to the winning Place podcast with Brian Rob and Michael. R. Maurice Levine. That's right. Tina is back. But unfortunately Gordon Hayward is out. We'll discuss the short and long-term implications of Koreans injury will talk about the Celtics game 1 win over the Seventy Sixers Jayson Tatum, and Jaylen Brown are absolutely ridiculous first. As always, please subscribe to this podcast, wherever you listen, give us a follow on Twitter. That's at winning players pod. Shout out to see on this media. Shout out to bet online. Michael piano. Welcome back, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. So happy to be here. You guys are incredible job in my absence used to suck up comes back. Just watch the season turn just crumble away home. I have two quick questions for you, you know to get a to get us re-acclimated question one of all the pieces you've written for GQ and the last few weeks even do a lot of work over there. Which one are you most proud of wage? Well, I did this story about group economics and trying to explain what that was cuz some guys in the league three players are wearing a group economics on the back of their jerseys as their social social justice message. And when I first saw that as an option, I had no idea what it was or what it meant. So I talked to thought the players Anthony Tolliver and David West who I found out was the reason for it because he was kind of the inspiration a few years back and that was cool. And apparently it did well traffic-wise which I don't personally care about I guess but is but you're going to say most intense most importantly exactly well throughout the question. Exactly. Yes, not trying to spread a message of you know, social justice. But as long as people click, that's all I really care about. Okay, you got your priorities in line while your doing awesome over there. Very cool to see see that everyone check him out GQ GQ long is that is that where to go? Okay, so from from from group up in economics to education reform question to the lack of impact. All right rank it from 1 through 10. How hard are the Celtics going to feel this Gordon Hayward injury. So Gordon Hayward is out what four weeks with a sprained right? Ankle be robbed is that the that the official statement gave us a release from the team and from doing research and talking to people in sports medicine for weeks sounds optimistic for a grade three ankle sprain in general. And so hopefully maybe it's a less severe when I don't know. Obviously the Celtics know plenty more the doctors than we do on that front. But if you look at other grade three strains Rental League, it's a lot of them have been dead for more than four weeks. So. What do you think went through 10 or is this going to be felt? I think in the first round against Philly, I'd put it at like a boar. I'm not I don't really think it's that big of a deal to be honest. I think Boston is just a lot better and more Marcus Smart more Grant Williams more whoever does they can survive that for sure and I might even be a little bit better off in the short-term. I think beating it seemed like the Raptors without Gordon Hayward and not having him in one of those lineups that off. You know, when Toronto wants to get super versatile. They can get super versatile and Gordon Hayward just kind of key to unlocking that for Boston. So that's going to be real tough and I'm real interested to see who who Brad Stevens kind of leans on out of the guys. You know, I just mentioned Marcus I mentioned Grant Williams like Romeo Langford dead. Is like is he going to play Brad Wanamaker be Rob's boy. Like I don't know how they're going to kind of make up for what Gordon provides particularly on the defensive end. So for Thursday at series, I'm like that's a 7 or an aide maybe even higher honestly might be rub answer penis question. How are the Celtics going to react what's know who is going to who you think is the first call I mean obviously office is probably going to start I would think so we gotten that I think so. I want to take Peter to task for a second here though. It's for they might be better off about Hayward in the series this this Philly series about how many points did Marcus Smart score the other day better off probably a slight example, I mean went back to me if you I agree with you sure. It's not a huge loss. But like I mean, yeah they were it is maybe that's 35 minutes locked in then you're going to get Good defense. Oh fifty points album hayward's terrific. He's been playing really well in the bubble be right by now, you wrote something about him recently. It's a blown know for sure. But I'm just kind of like you watch what Jalen did last night you watched. What Tatum did it just like more opportunities for those guys and gals and pressure as well. Yeah. Those guys were born in the darkness. Come on. They're ready to go. Sure. I know I agree but this is going to be the first time on this stage that there's going to be no choice, but if they don't come through when I guess you have Kemba, who's where we think about kember he actually he was the fourth quarter last night, like he eleven points in the fourth quarter from very slow start, but I agree for it. I mean like that's I think that's your biggest Factor now with with Hayward around Campbell could kind of ease back into things during the series, but now Kemba has to dominate as much money. Actually if they're putting Shake noting on them to start games and putting Richardson on Tatum or brown, I feel pretty good about that though. I had a thought last night that I think at the same time Campbell looks pretty good. And he's also clearly the third best player on the Celtics like the both. Those things are true. I don't think he's the third-best because he doesn't look like himself. I think, you know pretty close to a hundred percent. Kemba Walker is not as good as or not as important as jail and Jason. So funny enough. I I kind of agree with your sentiments but I a couple days ago before long before Gordon got hurt. I pitched Thursday to 5:38 wanting to write about Kemba as like the narrative with the Celtics is kind of like there'll only go so far as Tatum and Jaylen take them, but I'm kind of like I know more or less what I'm getting with Tatum and Jaylen like I think they're like think of the world of them. I think they're great. I think they'll score. I think they'll defend wage they'll do all that and play terrific basketball. Those are the guys that the Celtics are relying upon but Campos kind of like that player who really increases your variance now whereas he was supposed to be stable rock where you knew what you were getting with Kemba. I don't think he's scored over 20 points since before like shortly before the All-Star break in a game. I think 19 last night so long His ability to go up and then there's like all these different numbers that I've been looking at with Kimba that have me optimistic that he can really step up. I just I'm fascinated by Kemba. I'm fascinated by him against him his ability to get points against the Raptors. I'm already moving past the six or some Spanish like them I respected. Yeah, but like his ability to create offense by himself off the bounce against Toronto is going to be really fascinating and then, you know, if you are fortunate enough to get passed around so kambo needs to have a big series with the pull-up threes against Milwaukee if you want to be Milwaukee, assuming Milwaukee beats the Devon today, Orlando Magic who has a recording this right now are giving them everything. They've got so Kemp is like huge all of a sudden even more so than I thought he was like a few days ago and I thought it was huge a few days ago. I mean he has to make pull up three. It's against the law. Philly now, I think if to avoid a seven-game slugfest because really I think I mean I just hope that that team sorry, but I just don't I just don't feel like the six are in the same as the Celtics even without Gordon but you thought you think that without Gordon it's a potential seven-game series. Yes, I think based off of you know, you got pretty terrific games from Tatum and brown last night long and you got nothing from your bench which isn't a big deal when you have you're starting five at full strength, but now if you're moving smart into the starting five and he's not hitting threes then fingers can get a c in a hurry and I mean maybe it's just a decent time to talk about how Brad Stevens should handle the situation and maybe who's going to get who deserves the most opportunity now knowing that, you know, smart replaces into the starting five, but he's already playing third two minutes a game. So hayward's 35 minutes have to go elsewhere. I think you're looking at dead. Three guys, or maybe even for guys Wanamaker Lankford Grant Williams, and I'm usually who had a DMP and game one month. Yeah, what do you think? They're I think I'm I'm starting to think now just as we're talking and kind of brainstorming like Is it possible that Marcus Smart is not the automatic guy who goes into the storyline up. Sure. I mean if if that is if that is the case like if they were playing the Bucks, I'd be like, yeah, they're going to play show me that would make a lot of sense, right? I think they're going to I think I don't think they're going to start Grant Williams. I think Grant Williams going forward is just like humongous for them in this and he does a lot of different things from Gordon Hayward not he's not going to be like running your offense, but he's just still just like super smart can knock down the spot up. Three's he's got such a great nose for the ball that play last night where he drove on the ground and created a second opportunity. I just think Grant Williams is like a really great rookie. And so you think you potentially gets to start It wouldn't totally stunned me. If he was in the starting lineup for game two. I'll just say that yeah, like I think that makes sense too cuz you kind of when you have Walker Jalen and Tatum on the floor together. It makes sense to hide someone in there offensively again. This is theis it does make things dangerous home taste the way they're Saginaw from already ties has to hit some threes for this to work. But throwing in smart with that group clearly hell's helps you from a ball handling a standpoint and potentially three-point shooting standpoint, but it also leaves your bench rotation, like totally exposed to a degree and that is a dangerous proposition in case of foul trouble or anything else. So in Grant Williams can guard Horford He can you know hold his own against and switches against some wings that we saw that in his comments to in game one. So I don't I don't hate the idea smart is the same choice, but if Stevens wants to get creative, I think Great Waves might be the logical choice that he mixes it up. So I really enjoyed watching Jalen gardel. I hate to lose that if they start Grant just just seeing I say that was that's just that's jail and totally locked in noting he's going he's going a bigger guy certainly having some familiarity with Al from the last few years. I thought he was great in the early going against Al I agree. I'm I'm so glad you brought up Al Horford worst contracts in the League comic the screamer the screamer off for now. What was that? I was I was stunned watching that on television. I was first of all, why did he not get a technical foul for that? Like if that was a game at home and he gets technical foul, right? I think it's cuz it's Al Horford and they'd arrest felt bad. I don't know. It's like they were just shocked know they'd know. Yeah. Yeah, it should have been shacked. Is that the most emotion? He's like ever shown his p number, you know, when you get six six and six and a playoff game you can understand not being able to control your emotions. I saw his I saw the box score afterwards cuz I wasn't keeping track of it when I was watching the game. I assume that Al Horford had like twenty and twelve and there was it was literally his six point. It's like man didn't know if maybe you say real quick. I didn't know if maybe take off cuz it looked like he was screaming in the direction of Tatum. Yeah. I don't know if maybe one of one of Jason's earlier baskets if maybe he had yelled a little bit of grunted it out. Potentially. It seemed retaliatory to me. Yeah, I'm sure there is some fun good-natured trash. Going on with those those guys since they are I think they still have good relationships. But I mean that was the one I think I was in the middle of like 900 or five or six years run the one time where the C has got a little uneasy and then they turned around but I mean Jalen's play on offense against whoever I wouldn't be surprised. I'm if table table something starts for Hartford and they just play him off the bench as a center because he can't handle Jalen and then I guess that's the case where you don't put great Williams in because that's somewhere for corporate to hide defensively. Whereas if you put Smart in their smart can at least feet or foot off the dribble and you know, give the Sixers defense them that way. Yeah, we have it. By the way, we haven't talked about what Tatum did you know jail and kind of finished it but for that stretch, I think that was maybe part of the struggles in the third quarter after taking one out, but everyone had been kind of hypnotized but what he had been doing for the previous, you know ten minutes or so, but any cuz you mentioned be robbed that you know, Jalen and Tatum both had terrific games, but is that the new Jayson Tatum you said traffic is that just going to be the expectation every time it goes out and I maybe he's not going to be as dominant as he was for the for that for that stretch of time, but that was pretty special. Yeah, I mean I think in this series Mike like this, is there kind of kind of neat that for them now right like who's going to stop them from getting that? I personally expect him to do those things. Like when the game was on the line in the Celtics needed a bucket at the end. He just put his head down and got to the free-throw line. Like that's what superstars Dodge do. It's like very simple. It's what separates them from like merely very good players. Like he is a straight-up offensive Superstar already and I'm like, I I'm not like super caught off guard or Spellbound when he has performances like that and then his ability to transfer it to the defensive end that play where he slapped. I forgot to shut off the glass that started a fast break the other way Richardson. Yeah, like you saw that coming a mile away when you're watching the game live like you knew he was going to slap it off the glass like that's just he's dead and he is he's a really special player. I have like this really random comment that I wanted to bring up earlier and I can't find a place to put it so I'm just going to verbal masturbated right off. Um, but title the title right there, did you guys get like how weird was it to see the contrast between the Celtics coaching staff's office Green polos and the Sixers. It's like tucked in green polos makes a lot of sense and then the Sixers coaching staff, but Brown they have like a bow and packed like button Downs that whatever was Tommy Bahama. I don't think they weren't even like the right size is like Brett Brown's didn't look like it was the right size. It was I think that what they were all untucked like, I think it was that company. My wife was like is that the company untucked or they actually wearing those shirts? I went on sponsorship deal. Yeah. So am I hope you're writing about this by the way, I mean, this is Mike streets. You coming to the Forefront right now? Like I didn't even notice this this I had this this was bothering me. I was like Brett Brown needs to he looks I I love God. Brand, he looked terrible at the whole staff just horrendous. It was embarrassing. So you need to write about that. Seriously, you know that will go more viral than than than group economics. You look particularly disheveled when you're like screaming at your team because they suck and they've just committed their eleventh turn over and the last five minutes when your shirt is untucked and your shirt does not fit. I'm just going to fill that out there in like Brad Stevens look great. And who do you think makes the call on those like where the coaches the coaches talk before the games being like? Okay. We're going to go what color Polo are we going? Like the time Bahama or not? Like, who do you think I should call is Mike? I don't know. That's a good that's a good question. I know exactly I wrote a whole story about the suit versus like comfy look for coaches, but that's old news. Now. This is now we're looking we know you've gotta get inside the the Wardrobe options in the bubble guys not to break up the wardrobe talk about sports keep coming back in case you've noticed says your chance to bet on them with our exclusive wagering partner wage. Online. A G Major League Baseball is finally started this summer and they're in full swing and there's no shortage of ways to get on the action that online has all the odds Futures and props for you to bet on and it supports start to return bottom line has sat down with Eddie George from the NFL Robert Horry 7 time NBA champ and Harold Reynolds for Major League Baseball to get their opinion on what it will be like playing without fans. They calling it The fandemic so visit betonline.ag today check out all the odds and up-to-date sports news. Don't forget to sign up and take advantage of all the welcome back Sports bonuses BetOnline your online wagering experts one thing real quick about Tatum guys. That Kang has surprised me not necessarily that he's dominating he seems to really be enjoying it. You know what I mean? Like, there's been another level of confidence and Swagger and shit talking and it helped that he was that he was mic'd up he seems and maybe this is part of not having fans to he seems a lot more comfortable with utterly embarrassing the competition than maybe he did as early as February. I think he feels and he maybe should that he's like the best player on the court regardless of who else is out there. And in fact that kind of that confidence reflects itself in his behavior is you're saying rich like it is hard to parse like the difference between the difference between just like him being miked up and us getting that that special both looks live looks at at things that he's saying and in relation to other players him being dead louder and all that, but I was also I did this interview with Robert Covington and he I asked him what the weirdest thing about the bubble was and he was like, it's truly a strange not playing with fans and not having the energy in the adrenaline that they provide and he thinks that teams that actually are loud and they've like talked about this the Rockets like the ladder you are like the birth Or you will be and you will perform. I don't know what that's about but I thought that was really interesting and maybe the Celtics have talked about something similar where it's like we want you to really express yourself more than you otherwise would cause your teammates need an energy source to feed off of yeah, I mean that was the big thing that brought tears talk around their first scrimmage against Oklahoma City against Chris Paul when Paul is just dominating the game of his voice and like you said like it seems like a a little thing but when there's no one around to get that extra adrenaline rush or push or whatever it's going to have to come from the bench or it's going to happen from your teammates on the floor and Tatum might be just buying into that himself more here. I personally just think he's excited that he doesn't have to deal with Ben Simmons and can literally do whatever she wants against this team. Whether it's Josh Richards, I mean table is a a good match up but it that's more he's great. Just contesting the shots off the screens and stuff like a job. Early the matchup. He would go to the Post right? He would destroy him. You can beat him. He can beat him one-on-one. That's more like around screens table can be more of a menace. But yeah, it's there's not a lot of guys to be scared of on the Sixers defense on the on the wing. That's for sure. I'm glad terrible got that block on the three-point attempt out of his system run the jump shot like that. She showed at the Tatum early enough now that he can adjust cuz that that would mean that was a really impressive play real quick. So I'm seeing right now that the magic or up 12 on Milwaukee with five minutes left p and I was talking to be Robert about this before he came on but we talked the whole season's about wanting to avoid a second-round match up with Milwaukee. So any chance that maybe Toronto is the team that you want to avoid in the second round. There is a chance. Yes, Tomatoes defense is ridiculous. Like they come to play every night with a different scheme that they're able to execute. They go through like twelve deep their offense has been like pretty up and down. But I mean, I'm personally not worried about it. And I don't think they are either like they have Shooters long as you can go off the bounce. They have a lot of different weapons siakam hasn't even like looked special at all in the bubble and he will in all likelihood not show up in meaningful moments. So I mean Toronto super scary Fred vanfleet just looks like he's going to get a Max contract. I guess down there tough Fred you look at Milwaukee. Like I'm not going to totally overreact to one potential loss against right? They might didn't even lose yet in Orlando beat the Raptors game. Game one last year. This is Orlando loves to take the game. Once they also had Jonathan Isaac in that game. I will say and I haven't been closely watching this game. But I think markelle fultz been drilling threes is what I saw on my Twitter timeline, so don't quote me on that, but I don't know if that's the same one free, but he is having again. Okay 134 from Markel. That's that's good. That's a fact. But no, I think that you know on one hand you'd have to go up against Yiannis who is still just an absolutely ridiculous basketball player Kris midleton just torch is the Celtics every single time they play each other. I don't know both teams are really good and it's kind of is what it is. You're like going to play the rap song so might as well get ready for that match up I guess and you're going to play them both eventually if you're going to do anything with the season. Well, oh Miami Heat over Milwaukee Bucks around 2. Let's go. Yeah, maybe that's the call ya bucks haven't looked right in or in Orlando yet kind of like the Lakers will see whether that matters not pretty quickly in these playoffs, but clearly game one is a concern thousand bucks as they fall further behind the fourth quarter. What's the latest on Romeo Langford? Just just wrist was yeah. So let's yeah we should talk about him. I want to talk about just Random Jewel of grab bag on the bench here to to close things off to get your guys take away. But yeah, he's so he's got torn wrist ligaments. I believe in his shooting hand them to play through it. He's going to need surgery on eventually, but for now according to Brad Stevens It's a just a strictly a pain tolerance issue. So they're going to he's going to play through it and now he's certainly going to do that. He's going to get a chance to play through it with with Hayward out of the picture. I would imagine like shooting probably pretty tough was torn wrist ligaments as someone who's broken their wrist a couple of times. I admire him greatly for even trying to play through this in the first place, but I do think his defense is good enough where he's worth having around even though he's a non-factor offensively What was his injury at Indiana wasn't it a rest? There was some some ligaments. He played through it the season of torn some ligaments. I believe in you. Do you know if that was off hand is not shooting hand. I think there was a shooting here to let me look it up. I know I'm just throwing like trivia obscure Romeo Langford. Trivia. Yeah. I'm going to go like Choice Costanza start checking his hands a little bit. I was just right film I believe. So, yeah. Romeo I mean whenever I watch him like his impact is way more about like not shooting the basketball obviously if you're on the floor in a playoff series you have to be able to like threaten the defense at the very least as a spacer, but I feel like he has this good instincts actual game where they can cut and he can rebound particularly offensive glass and he's like, you know, he's energy high-energy and I don't like my expectations for what he could contribute in a series against like the Raptors is pretty minimal, but I don't know like, you know, I don't see him like hitting 530 playoff game. I do see him potentially, you know taking a charge here and there and and just using his energy but like what is that really does suck? Matter existential I like it went from trivia trivia to existential reality. That's nice. What do you guys think of time Ward now in this series going forward after month? I don't a rocky game one performance will say but nicely. I think we talked a lot about how much the game slowed down for him and those eight games and against Philly was like he was back on the the super-fast treadmill, you know, I mean like the the cam the composure I think and listen, I understand you're going up against well and bead and a game where and well wasn't being still out there when when Williams made his first appearance. He was right. Yeah, and he he a chance against both but and it was a tire as well and be but I could I could understand why things were going a little bit faster for him. I think it showed I'm ready to throw rolling back out there and game too though. I'm confident that he can still contribute. I think I was kind of noticing and maybe I'm wrong cuz I haven't looked it up. But like I'm pretty sure his second stint and every I don't know how many since he actually had but God intentionally they were trying to make it so he wouldn't be on the floor at the same time as embiid and they were kind of just balancing it with theis and with cancer in those and it's yeah, but like Robin Williams, like I haven't had an opportunity to gush on him about him on this pot. So you're just out. I know he's might be you know, how many things like defensive player of the year or two? We thinking here like a minimum is that I think you're treated this piano about him being one of the scariest closers that club it's terrifying his ability. I mean, he used to talk about how Jordan could like start from under the hoop and block a 3-pointer. Maybe that's hyperbole, but I'm pretty sure that time where it might suck. Able to do that arms jumping ability instincts quickly at the elbow and his man is like behind the three-point line on the wing catches the ball and timelord jump off at the elbow and it's just like it's like a contest. It's it's like truly there's no one else in the league. Who does that? I'm not even kidding. Like I can't think of anybody else like that's like a guard version of like dejounte Murray or something like that where he he just like appears in your face, but he's so much bigger and his arms are just like their wives. So in a few years. I think he's going to be like a like I think he's the future starting center of the team and like his instincts of really impressed me also in the bubble and he was like looks like a basketball player, which I really wasn't expecting but yeah like Time Lord, man, he just makes you take a deep breath when you're watching a What do you think B Rob is or did he lose any confidence or Brad Stevens in and game on I think you have to think about it to agree with great way of saying the chance in the fourth quarter in a spot where he matched up against Al Horford to Mike's Point in terms of you know, Cantor matching up against embiid Hayward being out does change that Dynamic since you could theoretically go off with some, you know, Williams Williams front lines for a spot here and there when impedes off the court if you're trying to spread the rest around. Yeah, he just he deserve he's played well enough alone know where he deserves another shot here cuz that's what I think. It's first real playoff minutes in that game. So but I think you something nice now in terms of the the present the future I agree with you guys totally welcome to the center of the future, but for now the Trust might be tested a little bit. So I mean when when when ambient start sucking win like you like you did I mean, what was it late first-quarter wage? This is the second quarter. I think Williams is the last guy that he wants to see. Yeah, cuz he really abused him for a little bit and that and that first stretch I missed an easy shots to like everyone on the Celtics did but I think on Thursday nights, like he'll be he'll be able to have a few more baskets as well. Yeah, I think the bunnies their day. Mr. Lee. He I mean he missed a donkey missed a couple that's like he has to be out. He has to take his time when he shoots Mike and that's what he did really well in the bowl games when you shall I quit like eighty-five ninety percent, but now he was on Fast Forward again in these games and that's not going to not going to go. Well. Yeah, I'd admire the the the New York next put out an Instagram post of Mitchell Robinson and His field goal percentage right next to Wilt Chamberlain and his record field goal percentage and they were shaking hands. Oh god, he's a really great and it's like why Instagram was invented for stuff like that should be illegal. And so when you were talking about like as high that's what made me think of but now I I think yeah, I agree with you he needs to slow things down mentally wage. Um, what was that basically like his first playoff game kind of and he's in the bubble and it's just all weird and you're going up against the Marquee Center and change and and everyone's been hyping him non-stop for the last week pretty much he seems like the type of person who has been paying attention to that which I to be fair. I would do I would be reading all the tweets. I would be searching my name on Twitter when I woke up in the morning before I went to bed. So shout out to him for that. This is where the bubble really hurts cuz now would be the perfect time as a single NBA player to to he's going up torturous. Yeah. It's a true, uh, damned-if-you-do damned-if-you-don't situation, you know. All right. Should we should we close this out with some predictions for the rest of the series? Yeah, what I want to hear the percent chance of you guys thinking this others could lose a series right now. Okay, you can say the crazy thing first, you know, you're going to say 100. No, wait, the chance of them losing. Yeah, the chance of losing of them losing losing losing. Yeah, so zero, do you think it's 0 Mike? I think it's 15 Okay, I'll say 10 a.m. Again, we don't know like knock on wood. I mean like Jalen and Tatum could get injured. We don't know but assuming it's not a m i n e horrible injuries. I'm going to say like 10% I I just don't think I don't think in beads long for the series I said this earlier to to be right. I think that that's the best and beat you're getting I don't think he has it in him to give much more. He was out of breath by the second quarter. I just don't think physically he can dominate as consistently as he needs to. I agree and I just can't believe after four years in Philly. They don't have a point guard then get him the ball. It's just argue and tell you that they do have one and that his bags or whatever like injury that whatever quicker that can shoot that can get him the ball. Yeah, which is seems to be pretty packed in across the NBA right now, but for some freaking, uh trained Burke, it's like tearing at all in Dallas. He was in Philly last year. Like, why would you let someone like that goes off simple pick-and-roll point guard you can shoot threes and run some kind of pick and roll with Joel embiid because late in the game, you can't like entering the in the ball in the post office in the game is just really difficult great guys fronting him guys, like helping from the weeks. He's the focal point. So the Celtics are daring and hoping that someone else in the team. Shoot that's probably going to be like Alec Burks who was taking all sorts of crazy shows last night and had himself a great game. Whatever that's never going to happen. Again Rich. Remember I brought him up. You did took flash. Yeah. Yeah that was his 15 minutes right there. And I know I'm I'm sounding really mean I don't mean you know, but the fact that that was the Alec Burks game, right? That's that's what they need to talk to to win. This series is performances from guys like that and they guide instilled I think again, it was closed. I think they still kind of got their asses kicked. I felt like the Celtics were were toying with the with the Sixers a little bit. So you're wasting that that game from him. I don't think you'll get another one and I again I said I said Sixers I said Celtics and five at the beginning and I'm waiting a little bit more towards towards a sweep now, but, I'll stick stick my Celtics and 5. I was thinking Celtics and six Mike Woody. What's your what's your tally? I'm still Celtics and five years. So I had before the series started I The Sweep would kind of Be Wild but what's really interesting about all this is like there's no job opportunity for momentum if the Celtics win game to what is Philly doing like are they competing in game three like what is their mentality? So, um as even a mentally tough team you worry about that and a team also real quick like you talked to like players in the bubble. Some of them are just like, you know, Like teams players on teams that know that they can't win the championship are just like I really want to see my family. Like I really don't want to be in the bubble right now. Like this is a weird eyes lighting experience. So there's that a factor as well for a team like the Sixers if they were to go down to you don't know how they would react and by the way that's going to be such an advantage for the Celtics moving forward is that it seems that they are enjoying being there together and they really believe in their ability to win this title and like they they have a collective Mission and that's going to go a long way as we move forward. It's going to be fun to watch. All right, so we'll put a bone that I'm sorry. We're going to have to spend the next episode guys talking a lot more about Brad Wanamaker cuz we really didn't get anything in here on Thursday needs to be featuring prominently these next few games, but we'll be back to see how these these look like, uh without hammering the fold what adjustments they make money and whether they to see is can put this Philly team away early. So we'll be back with that later this week in the meantime hit us up at winning plays pod on Twitter at Michael V peena at Richmond Australian at Bryant. He robbed check mike stuff out on JQ. He's been coming over there as well and I'll be off classes first year or per usual and I think that's it guys.

Celtics Jayson Tatum Gordon Hayward Wanamaker Lankford Grant Willi Brad Stevens Sixers Philly Walker Jalen Twitter Mike Woody Toronto basketball Raptors Milwaukee NBA Al Horford Kemba Walker Romeo Langford Jaylen Brown Brian Rob
What's next for Gordon Hayward and Celtics?

Winning Plays

29:02 min | 5 months ago

What's next for Gordon Hayward and Celtics?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network. The leading online provider for the India is winningest franchise. He folks welcome into a brand new edition package of the winning plays broadcast. My name is Brian Rob joined by special guest co-host Ranbir Joni yet again Ryan. We are 24 less than 24 hours out the NBA draft and we'll be back with you guys all week on the winning Place podcast. So if you're listening now, please subscribe rate US review excetera all that good stuff as we keep you guys date all week long, but the one the one answer you're supposed to have today Ryan heading into the draft was what Gordon hayward's future or in police intentions were with this other place. And that is now on hold as first reported by Zach Lowe. Both sides mutually agreeing to push back the 34 million. Thirty four million dollar player option. Mine from Tuesday at 5 back to Thursday at 5. So all that flip-flopping. We haven't have done over the last three weeks it they just change it back anyway, but this is Faith raised a lot of eyebrows around league but your initial reaction to seeing this move. Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't look good from a from a selfish perspective. I don't I'm just going to mumble here and be like the like, I don't know what else could possibly be right there working hard grade and Mister from the Hayward perspective. Like I kind of look at it cuz there are any particular site he wants to go somewhere here and he thinks The best way for him to get there is to you know, obviously need the saw this cooperation and potentially not be on making thirty four million dollars next year to do it off. I E like an extended trigger something like that. So, I mean that that probably makes that's option of like the the odds of him coming back to Boston. Now after this type of move, they're not zero, but they're zero you think there are a hundred percent zero. I don't I mean nothing is ever a hundred percent. You can't what is the situation where he would be coming back that hasn't been resolved. Like I don't I don't know what that would be. It seems like yeah, he will just use Indiana cuz it seems overwhelmingly the most likely that he wants to go to Indiana gmax, but whether that be via sign-and-trade or an extended trade or an opt-in and trade whatever it might be the Celtics would have to take money back in that trade if it was, Indiana. So are they trying to work out what exactly they would have to take back? You know, they if they're going to lose Hayward then they're going to they want to fall far enough down to get the full m l e e r not going to want to be in the tax at the end, you know, so if he hops in and they trade him through that way and not assign and trade they'd have to take a lot of money back and like maybe closes off Summer Avenue still. So maybe they are really giving something up in those circumstances. Although they would get a big trade exception if he opts out and it's a sign-and-trade they might have take like there's a lot of things that could be negotiated in there. But it seems like maybe all going to come down to like something at the draft or they're waiting to work out some other moves or figure out if you know if they can maneuver around some other smoke. I don't really know what exactly they're waiting on and then the other one that's hanging out them like it it seems like he just doesn't want to be in in Boston and And so the other option is that he opts out and then signs in Atlanta, maybe that sort of the rumor and again maybe that happens via sign-and-trade in the Celtics have to like pay, you know, give a draft pick or something in order of created a trade exception I guess but in all those things you can expand out into like gigantic imagination things, whatever but those I don't know. Do you have any other like anything else that comes to my name is what could possibly be happening here? Yeah. I mean to me it's it's kind of a staring contest. I think we're potentially between you know, hayward's the noise about have ordered early and there's obviously some smoke they're based on how this is gone and like the the extending the deadline, you know, just expands that even more money. It could be something as simple as okay. If you're if you're Hayward here, I think we can say the big deal is not out there for him right now that hey like that that Horford had last month. Offseason, like if that was out there and he was just happy to go to Atlanta out. Right then he would have just stopped it out and it would have been a done deal. So from that standpoint, it could be waiting until after the draft could clarify. Okay, maybe Atlanta has some other things it might want to do that. They'll find out about on draft night. And then if they aren't there, then they'll be ready to commit to a word it gave you something as simple as that and haywards being okay if that waiting game and then from a soldier's perspective if the you know, the option is okay. I'm going to opt out now or you have maybe I'll opt wage and if you give me till Thursday, then they have no reason not to give until Thursday to do it. But I do think there is a possibility that you know, the maybe Atlanta trades for veteran under athanasia are cap, you know room dissipates and then Hayward is left. We're okay now I have to opt-in and or dead. And I don't really have any leverage anymore for the Celtics in terms of forcing away in a sign-and-trade. Yeah, maybe I guess I mean anything is possible. There's that would take a lot of money off to come off the books for some other, you know for Atlanta or some other team to make it so it's like they can't sign him for what I think would be a reasonable signing. I don't really have they have right now 45 45 somewhere around that, you know, it depends on a loop there but like part of it. It like one of the things that I've been been thinking about and sort of on is that it would make sense for some of these teams at least to try to do this as an extended trade. So add two years because you can drop way down in salary for an extended trade. So you basically if you wanted to sign up for you know, three years seventy-five million instead of doing, you know, 25-25-25 or whatever with the raises like eat 34 of it in the first year and then drop it down to two small numbers in the out years when you have other concerns that you're going to have to deal with like there's some value in doing it that way that would be good for maybe everybody involved which that would go away if they did some other moves and didn't have enough cap space for it. But like are they really going to drop we're going to spend twenty-something million on and then not have enough for for I don't know like it's again anything as long as possible here in the way these things work out. I mean, it'd be it'd be something where they need the sign-and-trade to do it properly. Yeah supposed to just the outright and there's other you know, there's I think the Celtics would do it like they would have to have really no way Jose. They would take back just to make the tpe. They might you know, they would take unless it was like, oh you have to take back all of doing dead men or something and maybe they would want to do that. But I don't know it it certainly seemed like very very likely that he's on his way out that it's the Celtics are probably not getting a whole lot back in return, you know, maybe three exceptions are flexibility. If nothing else maybe that will turn into something down. The line is receiving other times, but like the idea that oh, maybe they're going to you know, get whatever Miles Turner or some other good good pieces out of it, but that just seems to diminish as if like, it hasn't happened yet. So what are they waiting for? And I don't it's Yeah, it's not not a great situation for the Celtics and it's one that we've been talking about. I've been concerned about for a while. It's like this was obviously not a done deal that he was just going to opt-in and come back or that sensible idea. I suppose at this point that he would opt out and re-sign longer-term, you know a lesser money and have two years in a row we've learned that that doesn't actually happen players. Don't really do that. So it's all. I don't know maybe it was 48 hours from now we could be looking back and I'd be like all worked out perfectly. But at the moment it seems a little seems not great. Yeah, and this is I mean the whole situation is more slain, you know a bowl last year of like why he left this is a situation assuming again. He he wants out where it's like, okay, he's you want to leave and there could be a number of reasons on this friend whether it's just him not wanting to be a fourth option or you know, our family reasons or just you know, bad, you know flying to get a fresh start after just a really rough three years in Boston as a whole for him. Yeah, I mean tweets right? But yeah, it's like it's not great. But it's a troubling pattern at this point and you can testify each individual one but I'll Horford left and and I was there saying like I you know, I wouldn't want to sign into that contract whatever but he did leave and he left in a way that the team wasn't wild about how it went down Kyrie Irving left off after saying that he wanted to come back and like let's be honest if the Celtics would have done what it takes to get him teamed up with Kevin Durant in Boston because they wanted to see him up together in Boston. Celtics would have found a way to make a change and he didn't it's so it's not just that he wanted to go and play with Katie like he wanted to leave Boston and go to another team and they pivot it out as well as they could have them. You know, they did what they could sit to recover from that a player didn't want to be here Gordon Hayward. You can come up with all the reasons why he might not want to be here but up here. It's not want to be here and and maybe that it's as simple as the birth. all their justifications for all of it but like It's something to monitor, right? Is it something to do with the way the Celtics operate? Is it something to do with Bret Stephens, whatever it might be. And you can't like just ignore it and assume that it's it's nothing forever because it might be something it might be a real concern and like that opens up to when we don't have to have this conversation type but like a much larger than a conversation about something. You know, what I was talking about a lot in the preseason before things really ramped up about like player empowerment and how you appease your young star player so that they don't ever want to leave off and what you know sort of what's Happening across the league right now with Chris Paul Devin Booker teaming up together and you know, we honest exerting his power to have a choice of his team trade, you know an upgrade from from Blood Soda to Jrue Holiday, but giving up three draft picks three, unprotected pics and two swaps and all that. Like, you know, this is something that to keep in mind you you want to be the team that's taking players away not giving them back out into the market. And and it's just it's very hard to paint it as like a positive to be like, yeah, all these players who we sign for Max, I mean that's that's for have all decided. They wanted to leave. Yeah. I mean, I can't see anyone like painting that as a like even if you have the rosies classes on that's not a positive. I can find them for you in my mentions a second of all the people who are like no it was good that khyron et al left. And Gordon is just a situation where we don't want to pay him anyway, and so it's fine and it's like yeah, this is justify these things independently, but at what point does it become a trend and not just three independent, you know circumstances that happen and and the problem is that if you find out that it was a trend is that because it is Kemba and then Jason Tatum Jayson Tatum, right like you you can't just like toss it aside and be like that that won't happen for anybody else. Like it's it's because Tatum was too good. He he dead We're shadowed everybody and that's why they're all leaving. It's like okay, but I don't know if that's really true considering that, you know, Kyrie went to go and play with Kevin Durant and now they're trying to get James Harden and I don't know. Like I said, I can't like that's definitely a problem but it's yeah, like I I I see recovery one. I tend to lean I mean Kyrie is the the wild card situation feels like it deserves its own category. I focused Less on the organization for something like that given his track record as a player in the league right now talked about it before though like a part of being a major organization with star players is like dealing with weird personalities and Catering to certain Superstar players particularly if you traded for them as the centerpiece of an idea for attracting off Superstars like yeah, he's I agree that he's a sort of an you know an odd cat who didn't fit quite where they were going and all these strange things happened, but like again, I I don't want to just dismiss it out of hand as like yeah, it was it was because of him not because of us like know for sure and that's and yeah like you obviously didn't execute them as well as they would have in those situations where it's you know, Horford had a reasonably if like things went terrible at the internet last season and the subjects did not have an immediate contingency plan in place at that point, which is gave him, you know, whatever added incentive he needed to leave. So that's clearly not good. And then now with Gordon, especially with you'd think the brass Wheels connection here with that and how I think you know, the team has pretty much gone too bad for him as much as possible over these few years. And to have it leave off like this and and we'll see how it plays out here again at him his Camp working together with the Celtics to guarantee them some kind of return like I guess, you know doesn't take away the bad vibes from him just walking away, but when you know potentially souv like the serious long-term concerns if it's just a matter of it being like hey, I thought I was going to be the number one or number two on this team and now I'm lucky if I'm number three so you can go betray Young's number number. Yeah, exactly. But that's that's if you're going to Atlanta then it's like okay what's going on here. That's where that's where I'm with you in terms of like that. That's a red flag. And that seems like it really does seem to be just be a leveraged play. Cuz again if you wanted to go to Atlanta, you would have just opted out on schedule and the rumors today wouldn't be that he's interested in Atlanta. It's that he is come to terms with Atlanta and that he's going to sign in a couple of days right like right. So there's You know, it seems like it's a like it's a leverage thing that he wants to move his family back home to Indiana and you can understand that and again like you can come up with explanations for for all these players and and maybe it's just three things and they don't have any sort connection and I think really like I don't mean to say that it's like this is code red. There's alarms going off cuz I think Jayson Tatum's, you know, couldn't want to be out of here in three years. It's just like, you know, it's something something to keep in mind like if this happens again with Kemba Walker other things, so I don't know and if football continues on this week, which has a few surprise teams at the top of the standings and you might not be able to be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline AG no matter how the schedules change or players that play bet online is going that extra mile to make sure you can get in on every game this season with the fastest updated odds in the industry. They're always were options to wage. Than anywhere else online so head on over to bed online today and take advantage of all the great mid-season bonuses offers and contests BetOnline your online Sportsbook experts and now back to the show em talk about just like the Hawks enter the house is going to play out right now because so the Hawks have forty four million dollars. So they have obviously plenty of room. Let's say they're going to sign Hayward for what three seventy-five four ninety-five something in that range. I think would be enough to get them to opt out if it's three key should optimize extended trade right because that puts the most money into the first year and back loads it for Atlanta like from Atlanta's perspective. That's how they should want to do it. Now, you can get into all the stuff that we talked about escrow and all that and it's 20% is for this year. I might be 10% of the future and that cost him some whatever but like from Atlanta and Boston's perspective. They should want them to opt-in Sign a 2-year you can only sign 2 more years as part of an extended Trade Centre don't happen often Iguodala just moved to the to the human on one of them but like often sign an extended trade for lower-wage dollars in years two and three create the biggest possible trade exception for for the Celtics. Now again, if if the Hawks have other things that they want to do with their cap space then that might not be the way they wage if they have somebody else they want to sign for fifteen million and you need more than ten million capsule use all that you can go through your all these different things but like that's just sort of in a vacuum not knowing those other things it would be a good way to deal with this is where we have to be signed trade. Right? And this is where I think the like bogdanovich was probably I would assume at the top of his list as a Target before he went to the bucks or in a pre-arranged sign traded last night. So early illegal slave early early again, like I was as a legal that legal gets. Yep. Not supposed to be talking to free agents and so Friday and now there's a so that's I mean that would be one for all the new tampering Provisions in the NBA. That would be an interesting one to suck you're not going to do a thing about it is going to do a damn thing with this crazy schedule. That's for sure. But so I would think Dad I mean something like that might have boosted hayward's in marketing it more in terms of okay, if he was planned see your plan be for for the Hawks then okay. He is primarily of the list other names of the Hawks I think could again could conceivably be telling him, you know, we like you but we might we're going to see where the market is of these other guys like a Joe Harris from Gallinari been linked to Eastern Conference teams. I can I would think he's going to Thursday go for a better team. But if he wants his money it has to be assigned trade that team doesn't get it to like isn't bad though. I mean he could be like Like they took that forty-five million and they split in half and they gave Hayward twenty million a year and Gallo whatever he's going to get like Trae young Kevin heard her Gordon Hayward Gallinari Collins. Capella reddish like it's not a terrible team. It's not I don't know. It's Eastern Conference like you. Yeah, you have to go in there saying we're a seven seed but like it's not awful. It's you know, it's not like they're going to the some tricks of the league. A lot of people thought that the Hawks might be a playoff team last year and obviously they weren't but I don't know. I've always thought it was like reasonable that decent players would go there. Yeah, I mean it's a it's a pretty decent, you know, especially to get to the account you have you get two of them for sure. So from us if you're the Celtics are you know, like the bulb getting a big tree exception would obviously be huge in terms of you know, being able to find that, you know, fill that hole immediately either in free agency this summer or in a in a season trade name, if you're talking to Atlanta, like are you probing them? Like on again? You'd have to value for someone on the roster if you're going to assign trade but they do like oh, do you have any interest in like a John Collins to just be like, okay, that's you know, I'll give you guys will give you guys a a first for him as part of this deal in the Centre part for Hayward. Oh, so you mean just like expand out the trade and try to like just do something else cuz obviously in the sign-and-trade they're not going to get anything wrapping. They may have to pay to give birth. They may have to give up a drag. They're not doing this is just like a separate dealing like tag on it. Like hey while we're doing this we could take back salary that normally we couldn't take back exactly. Yeah, I mean all those things are possible. It's possible you just expand it out and then you can take players back from like any other team as well just have to be Atlanta, right? You can make a multi-team trade and you could go out and grab some other piece for draft, you know, some other draft pick pretty much anywhere else would be reasonable thing to do as possible. The other thing you could do is you could like if you if you don't have to pay Atlanta to do it as a sign-and-trade you could say. Hey, we'll give you the 30th pick, but can you also take Canter or can you also take a dump some more money down Vince or something like that? Like you can can add in a bunch of sort of stuff around the fringes to to roll things together and there'd be no timing I cuz if it's a straight sign-and-trade you have to opt out and then you just sort of you know, put it on the background. We see those happen all the time. They'll haven't really quickly cuz the whole lawsuit is going to happen quickly, but like they can sit on it for a couple of days while while both teams work out other other things that they might want to spin into it. So, yeah, I mean I don't know the John Collins and I'm not super high on that you'd have to pay em, these are restricted to raise. I think you're right and like you get them for a year, but I don't know if you don't pay that much to get them. Maybe we should be like 15 guaranteeing something like you could if you could expand this to any other team run a league or just on trial and someone different in the women tricks create the team and you and you can use different portions of the TV, right. It's like like you can bring in a ten million dollar guy. Then you have 24 million dollars left and it just expires after a year essentially both. If you can't you can't combine it with anything else, but you can divide it up as many into as many pieces as you want. Right? I don't actually know the the expiration the scheduler now don't know if it's going to be a calendar year from now or there's maybe something yeah, like I said won't be whenever this portion of the calendar is next year. Yeah. I I would guess that's the case. It wouldn't wouldn't roll all the way into into November, but I don't actually know I'd have to go look at the schedule. But yeah, you can divide it up. All right. So you're the Celtics for an office now? You're you have this, you know some kind of deal probably on the back burner for later in the week with Hayward depending on how the dust settles on draft night. What do you do your priorities change at all and draft right now? in terms of you know, using the pics to formulate a deal for a veteran that you can maybe Circle in to as a three-team as part of this deal online or are you saying hey this is you know, we need to maybe just Find that blue chip young guy to be on the same time line is Jaylin and and Tatum. And yeah, when that direction I think it would be so I don't know. I think it was him was mocked. Just thought we'd surely before we started recording that like, you know, it continues to be quiet on the trade up front. So assuming that that's out of the possibilities right now, like if you can trade twenty six thirty something along those lines or you know, one of them for for veteran help then totally fine. You have to get a decent decently good player to trade fourteen. I think just cuz exactly you know, what you said like, we don't really know what Romeo like there's going to be particularly with starting another year where he's not going to be healthy to be any of this year either because it's starting so quickly like I think they thought would be better served like use that 14th pick and and try to continue to build a base of talent that they can start to develop around, you know, Tatum and and his next contract timeline and all that. Yep. You know twenty six and thirty by all means if you can can find a veteran for her one or both of those and that's not like completely crazy, you know, Dennis shooter just moved for a month or something like that. You even have if they were to move Hayward some of those players and it would really become possibility as well who just went to Oklahoma City like Danny Green. Yeah, you know Dan got one more years fifteen million dollars. They just got them like, can you get him for the 30th pick think so absolutely you get him for you know, he's probably worth a couple of seconds the 30th biggest basically that you know, so, you know, could you could you get Danny Green? Could you get a who else is moving at all in all their trades? Is there a Savers near you don't you won't Rubio here, like, it's George George Hill even yeah, normally. Yep. That's right even airports now, but I don't think that one makes much sense. Yeah the years but yeah any of those three guys like dead. Building into those other trades and and using one of your like first would make perfect sense. They would all fit. Everybody needs Wings the Celtics need a backup point guard George Hill can play back a point guard can shoot like those are all sound really good and we give you a way to Pivot out now. They don't have any real long run on those contracts Beyond this year you get their bird rights. Maybe you can you do something with that. So it's not the sort of Ideal stuff. We were talking about two years now. A couple of years, but does he he does so that's good. I mean like that would be a completely reasonable thing, right? They don't if they don't want them they they may want them. But yeah, if you could trade the 30th pick off as part of some bigger Gordon Hayward thing and just basically by George Hill for two years that resolve some of the problems with that the team had last year with spot of shooting and backup guard play. So but yeah, you can go around the entire league and find those guys like there's there's no shortage of Guys around that price, you know both in terms of contract and in terms of of draft pick that they could that they haven't really gone out and bought in the last couple of years at the trade deadline and maybe they've gotten gotten clipped for that thought. Maybe you you do roll into a bigger move here. It's also like the condensed schedule if you can get guys in ahead of time and just have them on the team even a little brief training you have like there's probably some advantage in doing that, you know, just getting it over with now also it means you can rest guys more throughout the beginning of season not wait until the trade deadline to to pick guys up in in the early part of the season with Campos questionable me and Romeo's injury and everything else like yeah, it would be I think prudent to go and try to do something like that. I've heard that midseason trades like you might not get a place for weeks from like when you were talking about Cole protocol, it's cold with protocols. So that would be well. I mean the teams are playing each other though, right? I mean I recommend each other that's a good point but the end of birth It's like significant usually like they they they've been making him wait like they acquired a player week eight and a lot of acquaintances. Yeah. I mean this year they might not be playing. I mean, right let's start by Imagine but like even that's over a month away and like God knows what to say. The country will be a month from now and it's like, I don't know it would like I said, it would seem to make sense to try to pick up a player like that now assuming that they aren't able to trade these three pics and move up into the top ten or something then what they don't need three rupees. We all know that so yeah use it to go and get somebody was helpful. Well, let's leave it there. There's obviously positive very Rosy outlook on the Celtics situation heading into off the full offseason week and to be honest. I mean, this isn't a huge surprise based on where the buzz was weeks ago like the where that was coming from that's not coming from nowhere. So that is it's kind of playing out and now we see both sides are eventually going to play their cards here at 5, and we'll see how much this has been posturing from here inside and or if he's blind up to go no matter what to anywhere just to get out of Boston. So long stay tuned for that brand. I will be back later this week to break down what happened on draft night and I'm sure by Friday. Midday half of the free agency signings will be known based on the the limbo Champion that's gone on in recent years. So maybe I should react early. We'll see how it goes to that. But the meantime fall Ryan at danger Curt on Twitter hit that Wing Place pod, Brian t-rob and we'll catch you guys later in the week.

Celtics Atlanta Hayward Boston Horford Gordon Hayward Indiana Hawks Brian Rob Ranbir Joni Zach Lowe Thirty four million dollar hundred percent thirty four million dollars athanasia Kevin Durant Ryan three years Bret Stephens Devin Booker
What will Celtics do with the biggest trade exception ($28.5 million) in NBA history?

Winning Plays

57:32 min | 4 months ago

What will Celtics do with the biggest trade exception ($28.5 million) in NBA history?

"This is the winning Place podcast on the clns media Network the leading online provider for the NBA's winningest franchise. Gordon. Hayward has been signed and traded and we are back home at the winning Place broadcast to break it down. My name is Brian Rob joined by Jess co-host ryburn dhoni and we will get into the nitty-gritty of the Hayward situation and what exactly the Celtics do with what is looking like will be the largest trade exception in NBA history and just a minute but first as always let you know, I'm not sure you remember Four Winds, please subscribe. So when he plays podcast rate of us on iTunes, you guys have been listening a tunnel ask of weeks really appreciate that please spread the word since we'll be having much more of that as the season jumps up on us quit and but I want to bring in Ryan here. This is this was nowhere surprised really this the the sign trade was always going to happen in some form. Between the Celtics in the morning. It was a matter of whether it's a complicated or not. I feel like Ryan but it's done two second-round picks going to the Hornets the Celtics creating a table of eight point five million dollar trade exception. That will be good for roughly an MBA calendar year here sometime in too early 2021 NBA offseason. So Ryan initial thoughts on this juicy juicy trade exception of Celtics have company. That's our long National nightmare is over in Hayward. So I guess finally done for the second second time in his career at the lawn Gordon Hayward side. It's yeah. I mean, like you said we sort of assumed that it would end like this because just all by all rational ideas. It should have ended like this but you never really know teams aren't always rational. It ended in the way that it was originally reported. Basically where Charlotte did end up waving and stretching Nic Batum. This is a ridiculous entire situation for Thursday. To be honest, it's still terrible for them. Yeah, so they even stretch Batum. They signed Hayward to a contract that I think basically everybody believes is above Market. They didn't even structure it as a fully descending contract, which changes the exact amount that that the self is getting a trade exception for anybody wants to know it's just barely not quite enough to fit Brad Beale in and you can't add to a trade exception and also it will not be the Brad Beal trade except. I don't exactly know why they they did that. You would think that from Charlotte's perspective. They would want to have the contract be fully descending and it started as high as possible. They are actually right now at cap space team. So maybe go and over pay somebody else nine million dollars a year and they were like reserving cap space to do something else. I'm not really sure maybe they've done it since since last I checked a few hours ago. Who knows but so it's a little off the way that that all this went down really from the Charlotte perspective from the Celtics perspective. This is the simplest way that it could have ended which is that they didn't have to involve any players didn't have to take any money back. So they get the largest possible exception they give up to second round picks birth. Both the Celtics phone second-round picks relatively, you know a couple of years down the line but the team should still be should be in defensive at that time. Yeah, you would think it's certainly sub 45 right somewhere in the back half of the second month. They didn't give up the Memphis trade stuff that they got for giving up the 30th pick which maybe those pics are going to be a little bit better. They could have been a target for what they were looking for. So they gave up very little they get this is a great exception now, obviously the key is how they use it. But yeah, I mean from a sort of technical perspective of how all this this played out it. It looks basically like it was reported the the day when I said that that Hayward was going to Charlotte and it just took a couple of days for the you know, Charlotte to figure out the nobody else wants Nic Batum and there I don't know right now, I guess I mean like says Del or something like that, but that's that was their decision. I guess the cost of getting rid of Zeller or Batum was not preferable to just getting two seconds and taking the nine million dollar cap it for next 3 years, which seems kind off. That's to me that that would be better. But I mean, they're the one making the calls on this and so they said yeah sure. We'll have Hayward cost us $39 a year for the next three years. That's what do that that's fine. Yeah, I guess once you've convinced yourself that cap space doesn't matter in your Market. You just start burning it now. It's a little bit weird to think to think that way and then use cap space to sign a player 420 million dollars but it seems a little bit to be that's that's the case where they're like, well, we're not really ever Target for the best free agents. So who cares if we spend, you know thirty nine million dollars a month for the first couple of years on this player that nobody seems to really think is quite worth that particularly the health questions, but you know, it's as we've been talking about throughout the offseason like this isn't this isn't particularly a good outcome for the Celtics for you know, from where they were before the off season began, but it is what it is and it's better than nothing making the best out of a bad situation. Is that like Yas. But it yeah, I mean the whole the whole thing is kind of a mess. The timing was a mess, but just the way that it possibly played out with Indiana. We don't even really know you and I are both living on the same page them that what they could have gotten back from from the Pacers is not something that particularly appealing although if there really was a first-round pick offered from from any along with Myles Turner and the they Celtics wouldn't have had to trade out these seconds you can make an entire weekend. But basically the situation isn't great they've done what they can with it and now they have this big opportunity and it's really on the front office that we both been talking about has become a little bit stagnant particularly in season. They're quite active in the off-season wage. Like we're getting very close to the season now and that it really is up to them to to use this opportunity to improve the team and some meaningful way because otherwise it's just, you know, they can make the best of a bad situation then have it turned into nothing and you just kind of hope that doesn't happen. Yeah, I mean the pressures on because there there's not there's no extra pics laying around to be able to age There's I mean, I guess the pressures on with eating the tree exception a and also just the first the young players on this team being be whether it's this year's draft class last year's draft class like a couple of those guys really need to to pop now not not turn into like even starters or you know, even more than that, but just be fully functional rotation players to that can complement a contender because without it there's everything's is gone off. Your chest of assets has been has been used. It has not been maximized in the last couple of years and on top of that the things you added with the the cap space that will had been, you know forwarded for a couple of years have has also walked out the door. So it's again it's better than nothing to have it and we're going to start going through some options in terms of what this team can do if it with a rep Using it sooner rather than later or holding off to even after the season which I think is a legitimate possibility too depending on how things play out. But yeah, it's just it's going to be fascinating to to see what happens here. Cuz the the pressure is on after the way the the tapered situation check out random feel like yeah for sure. They they can't let this be nothing or become something particularly bad. Now there are ways that you can use it that are not like particularly good right you can take on that money and pick up draft picks and start to rebuild some of that that charge just that that as you rightly said as I started to diminish things like that that aren't exciting but they are a use for this type of situation but in general I think yeah, we're on the same page that like the pressures on to turn this into something like of long-term value in some manner it's if you turn it into something of short-term value you better have that actually turn into something meaningful job. And that meaningful can be the player who you pick up, you know, as a rental resigns or something like that. It doesn't I'm not necessarily saying that they have to win the title this year you're using on a short-term pickup is not a big deal. But yeah, it's been a bad offseason. Um to me it's been sort of a you know, like d plus offseason to be to be perfectly honest with me. Everything is moved slowly. They've I think missed the number of opportunities and if they had been a whole lot quicker the the Tatum extension while exciting that he signed an extension was basically a foregone conclusion that he was going to sign an extension and what he did sign was the most player-friendly and team unfriendly, we can talk, you know, maybe not today, but at other times about asset allocation on how to use the mid-level and and again the timing stuff that we talked about that leads into all of this where basically all the leads business is done and I have this big trade exception. It has been a poor off season and now they have this one sort of big thing here to turn that around and whether or not that's a week from now or a year from now it's off. Not a calendar year from now but you know a lead year from now. We'll see but something does you know something meaningful does have to have to happen with it so long as we head into training camp this week, which is kind of nuts that things are going to get going away going here. So quickly back at the Arabic Center. It looks like they're done for the time being with their option of various there is room to you know, they likely still have the bi-annual exception to use which is where I bought a couple of million dollars if they want to splurge but to be honest, there's not a lot of guys out there that are might be refusing that on at this point and the roster is technically full but so when you look at home, I think the the first thing I look here Ryan as they're evaluating how to use this tree exception. Is figure out what they have with the young guys and it hasn't been an ideal offseason by any means but Daniel just certainly left it to wear off. Okay, like I'm not going to give Brad Stevens much of a choice here, especially in the first month of year of Kemba is slow out of the gate it Romeo Langford. Unfortunately, it's hurt would a guy you'd want to see on the floor but you're going to find out what the young guys can do in a way because there is there any to play whether it's Aaron Nesmith definitely Payton Pritchard could push for some backup minutes of flickered. You're going to find out where those guys are and so do you feel like dead at how much do you think seeing what those guys can do will potentially just like, you know start to help them figure out. Okay, how should we use this this big twenty-eight million dollars this year. Yeah, I think that there's a decent chance that it that it does but realistically I think we know where the holes on the roster are unless one of those young players has a really serious break out in and goes beyond being a sort of oh this guy can be a seventh or eighth guy for the you know for the season and next. I'm so so it is possible that they will use it tomorrow, right? They they already have something lined up they did give assets to get it and maybe they're they've got something off basically in the works. I don't I wouldn't necessarily be back that but like it's possible right? I mean there are players out there who I think reasonably could be involved in something like that. Although I took the challenge just because training camp starting in a week. Like how do teams want to settle at some point here, right? They they are there probably aren't a lot of other teams that are looking to to mix things up a significant amount at this point. So you'll likely looking at this being used at some point, you know a little bit down the line at the season so naturally, yeah, those young players will in some ways to find what you're using it on if Campbell looks like he's going to be off. Healthy then we're hoping for and paying Richard is so looks like a bust whatever then you might shift from saying. Oh, we need a sort of a wing into this into this exception to saying that you need a point guard our creator of some kind that's very obviously the type of thing that could happen and similarly with with Nesmith if he breaks out and looks like he's you know, why didn't this guy go off the top ten? Why does it need a v that's probably the lead whatever or V best player in the draft, whatever it might be then again that might shift things and you're saying okay. We don't need to focus on and that kind of shooting that's just sort of a natural way that that that things will play out assuming it's not used right away. But I think the the larger point that you're making is right that it's like it's it's go time. Basically now you have players who are injured you have a roster that is not particular stocked with veterans, you know up and down and so some of these young players going to have to play and and yeah, they'll determine I think they'll determine not only how the trade exception gets used. But in some cases they might determine whether or not they are dead. Pieces to our floated as a return and trades right, you know to some of these guys have any value left or not depending on how they play so there's sort of you don't want to say these things are career-defining but with the first few weeks of the Season at least, you know, a few months of the season for the Celtics assuming that we get to the point in the actually start successfully started season in our playing games could be more important for some of these young players than they normally would be just because there is a a team that has expectations and need at the same time that they need to fill a role on. Yeah. No, I mean no question because you look at life with with the treasure chest of draft picks pretty much gone you and if you were going to use this trade exception and you want to get someone good you're going to have to give something up. I mean, it'd be nice that you don't have to salary match result of which has been a clear issue for them in the past few years, which has led to a dearth of just trades being done. In season, but now you Find maybe that these guys can build some values show some potential. So all you're you're not offering simply late first-round picks to absorb some salary like you can add some real value in players that have some cost control on a rookie scale contract and have some some potential there unless you're going to move a part of your court which you know as a whole conversation that you know will get into but you know, both of those options will surely be on the table. But this is like you said, this is the time this first couple of months. This is could be the the the unique opportunity. We're off these guys can show what they can do and whether that's going to be showing that they can be a good bench option for this others in the long run or you know building some value for the subjects can get the more often now Beast to add to their bench and not having Lankford ready sort of looms over a surprisingly large number of decisions of the team has to make an option of the team has and birth Assume that he's not going to be on the floor for the team. I guess his caste is being removed in the not-too-distant future. I saw I remember where I mean, I don't even know if it was I say before I thought I'd be shocked if he's back before by the end of January if you're in this cast off now cuz that's going to take yeah, I mean someone who's had several risk surgeries, like that's just get your cast off. You still got a lot of work to do. Yeah, that's sort of where I'm at is is this going to be you know, is he going to miss 15 games 30 games? I'm like how far into the season it's going to be and it's just at some point. There isn't a lot of time left off to show what he is and and so some of these decisions that we're talking about are just limited by by that and it really is difficult to gauge some of that stuff and because right now he has functionally I would imagine vital trade value just because nobody knows what he is. And that really is a difficult situation that like I said sort of looms over some of these things but in other places players you talk about of course Robin Williams who would comes up in in these conversations a lot Grant Williams like those guys are going to have to place. I hope Robert Williams plays great volumes of certainly going to have to play Robert was going to start. Yeah. I mean, I know that's a a hot topic of conversation right now. I think that it's that wage. That's probably the the correct and best decision for how you would build the team. I suspect that he doesn't but it would be completely reasonable for him to start right cuz I was talking to either so yeah, like if it also I think I mean Brad Stevens did I think he was on of good men and And Bob Ryan last week on a podcast for a he hinted that Campbell was going to be slow out of the gate which is not surprised. But he also said like, you know, we're going to be playing are more bases here cuz that might be her teeth. So again are beginning to see some like Tristan Thompson at the for for like ten minutes a night. Like I don't know. I mean that's we could we'll find that out in a couple of weeks anyway, but when that's a way to get wrong on the floor, I guess yeah with an ideal situation but his away. Yeah. I mean, I think especially if does not have Kemba is ready to go then suck assume. They'll start smart. If he's not then I assume they'll start smart at point guard in which case then I think you would play Grant Williams. It's uh, it's not all that clear to me, although I think that like I said that having great Williams in the starting lineup at because of his sort of glue guy lower usage makes more sense than having him coming off the coming off the bench where you need a job. Find somebody who can score and how you're going to able to put those lineups together. So but I mean we'll get answers to all of these things very soon because the season starts like tomorrow but uh, yeah, I'm not a fan of big ball. So none of that stuff really super excites me. You gotta go play with the roster. You have though great. So often it back to the trade exception then in terms of this evaluating it with, you know, you find out what you have the young guys. And so let's say, you know, we're going to not even the trade deadline. I imagine if they're going to make a movie fan in season. It's bragging to become come sooner rather than later just to maximize, you know, what the how much it you can integrate a guy into the Teen Choice program. There are some n Season limitations Ryan in terms of what that could impact if the subject is also be clear people. They don't have to use it all in one guy dead. They can trade for a player making ten million dollars and then still have $18 left to the exception to use a separate deal. So based on that. I mean, we'll talk about some wage salary options in a minute, but that's an important thing to remember just like you don't have to just look at the big you could some maybe in especially for this the way this roster is built out like getting a couple really saw guys making between 10 fifty million dollars might be, you know, a better option anyway with it. So it is they're going to certainly have to be weighing a lot of things in terms of how they want to use it most effective you like NFL football continues on this week, which has a few surprise teams at the top of the standings and you might not be able to be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at BetOnline no matter how the schedules change or players that play bet online is going that extra mile to make sure you can get in on every game this season with the fastest updated odds in the industry. There are always more options to wager than anywhere else online. So head on over to Bob Online today and take advantage of all the great mid-season bonuses offers and contests met online your online Sportsbook experts and now back to the show. Yeah, I can throw a couple of the other technical things for just because we don't need to get too deep into it. But but right like you said you can split into multiple Parts there. I've been asked a couple of times like taking only use this on 1 Guy the dismay two-player exception to the DP versus a TP, right? That's you don't use that one guy. Also the tpe unlike that disabled player exception is not just for expiring contracts. You can take guys who have months or years left which is an important factor here and may play a big role in a big part in in the players who they're targeting and in my opinion it should so you can take guys who have multiple years length of contract. You can't combine exceptions. So they actually have three trade exceptions right now. They have the Hayward one. They also have chapter and and Paris. I have their trade exceptions. You can't combine them. You can't combine both option and a player although you can in a larger trade of multiple Parts trade a player and receive multiple players one who goes into a trade exception like you can break up trades in different ways, but you can't combine. Aggregate a player and an exception which I think most people understand now because we've gone through this over the years about know, you can't take a twenty eight million dollar trade exception and add carsen Edwards and then fit package deal doesn't work that way the trade exception you can use the entire value of it plus $100,000 so you can actually take in twenty eight point six million, even though it's a twenty eight point five million exception wage. I think those are sort of a base with and you know, usually trade exceptions get the sort of most straightforward way of doing it is that you trade for a player you send a pic which hath salary attached to it. They send you back a player didn't create their own trade exception and you go down the line having fun with that. But yeah, I think that that's sort of the basics of it. There are other limitations that we should talk about particularly dining Tristan Thompson with the the mle hard capsule. So the hard cap is aligned little more than six million dollars above the luxury tax line. And you can't ever cross that in the season for any reason you can't go a dollar over it. You can't go over and come back under it. Like you can with the tax line. It's just it's a hard cap. You can't cross that the Macon exactly where they are related to the hard cap is a little challenging right now to figure out for one reason is that they have as you said, they have a full roster. They have 15 guys. So in order to create a space, bring somebody in you'd have to move somebody out and so you have to decide who you're taking out about the easiest one to say is that you've owned a green is still non-guaranteed right now and so you could just wave him now go down to 14 and then have faith player and but he probably isn't the worst player on the roster right now, depending on what you think of maybe person Edwards and semi ojeleye. They have guarantees. So if you were to offer them that money would stay on the books if you waive somebody after they played part of the season. So let's say Devonte plays until the trade deadline and then you waive them or plays until the day before contract become guaranteed his contract wage. Guaranteed the money that he's been paid out gets counted on. So accounting up exactly how much space there is is hard. The other thing is that all potential incentive bonuses count. So Jaylen Brown has a couple of million dollars in bonuses at your account, So it's very difficult to figure out exactly where they are compared to the apron right now and and to make your estimates. The number that I'm using has been around twenty 1 million 21.3 21.4 million C 22 million, I think is the most common number I'm seeing like just sort of out in the world. I think that's a little bit High. You also want to leave yourself a little wiggle room in there because things like this going to be the cobit season and you might need to sign 10-day contracts, right? You may need to drop down and sign 10 days or waves somebody like it's very difficult to predict how the season is even going to play out and that hard cap is not going to go away what you really don't want to be is an age where you're like, okay, we're going to waive we're going to trade away Daniel pipes for nothing and sign a guy who you know to the Veteran's minimum cuz we need to make enough guys on the floor cuz we have injuries since I'm right so you have to be dead. A careful around that and then the other thing is that they're the team probably wants to end under the luxury-tax unless they have a really good opportunity to pick up somebody and so that number there maybe Seventeen million ish away the luxury-tax come again. It's a little bit difficult because of because of Jaylen Brown's bonuses and how that stuff counts. Maybe you want to cut that a little bit safe and say maybe 15 16 million. They have em, you know in rooms plan to the luxury-tax. So you put all that stuff together and what players you can actually bring in, you know, you had said maybe you want to guys who are in the sort of ten to Fifteen million range. It's hard to fit together as of that size. You're probably looking more at 1 unless you roll over into the next League year when all of this stuff presets and that opens up some some greater possibilities again, but if you want to be picking up guys to help this season in my mind, it's probably one guy and unless you so much salary. You can 16 right? Cuz there's not much there's not much salary. Like say you want to get a a high, you know, twenty-five million dollar guy this season like, okay. Well I can clear have maybe a couple of million dollars in room. There's not a lot of guys in this roster that you you want to dump especially that make more than four million dollars. Cuz yeah, if you picked up a guy who makes twenty-five million, you're hoping that it's a good enough player where it allows you to you know, say like okay, we're going to move out this move about this other guy dead make some amount of money but like Marcus Smart is the guy who you know is the first guy above ten million dollars. You're not moving Tatum. Obviously Tristan Thompson, you just signed so you guys sort of Daniel strange and it's like, okay. Well, is there a center who makes twenty-five million dollars who would be worth moving out Daniel theis and it's like we just learned with the whole Milestone you're not interested in page views of its twenty six million dollars when they could have Daniel theis for $5000000 right? Like it's it just doesn't seem realistic. So to me, it's more likely that it would be if it's used in this season on somebody in that sort of like, you know tend to sixteen Seventeen million range that get some just under the luxury-tax. You don't have to worry about the the hard Cap all that much a little bit of flexibility in there for certain things and like that's probably the sweet spot. If you drop below that if you get into guys who make five six million dollars like you might just be able to take trade matching for the guys you're sending out and not even need to use the exception of that way. There's also those guys don't generally get moved and you know, they're a lot of times on rookie-scale people's things like that. So yeah, that's sort of throw a ton out there are no but that's all right. So important stuff like that's like this is all the things that they're going to be considering when they figure out what to do. It's not it's not a simple decision not a straightforward Wenatchee how to use it and when to use it to me like just looking at where they are where this roster is. I honestly think I bet against them using it in season if Kemba isn't right this year like because if Kemba is a right this year, then you're stealing wage. Probably not the finals anyway, and so you're probably better off not that you're punching on the Year by any means like because it's Tatum and Brown still prevent. You're you're still going to be right there off if some of the some of your own guys are able to you know, play competently Off the Bench, but you might just be you know, if you want to see out of the tax for to reset the repeater tax office, which we can talk about later, but I think for from that standpoint like adding a you know, ten to Fifteen million dollar guys not to make a huge difference compared to what you could conceivably get. If you kind of save the whole thing for next offseason and could technically use that as A big you know cap room via like a sign-and-trade deal and free agency. So here's my problem with that. It's that The guys who you could so one is that it's not quite big enough for next year to be like it doesn't get to a Max guy like a gymnastics guide, right? So you can't you can't get in on those players because of you. I think just over the projected 25% Max with those guys are all restricted. And if they're good enough then nobody like there's no team that's in restricted free agency. It's you know, it does happen right Brandon got moved under that circumstance seemed like it never happens, but it's a little difficult. The bigger problem is if you take somebody inside and trade next you get hard cap to get adjacent items going to be on a 30% Mass a good point and the numbers just sort of breakdown. It becomes very difficult to fit everything off. So that's my my would be my biggest concern was thinking about that way. I think you're better off looking at players who maybe make that amount of money. You would want to have be adding next year who just bought a GB make it now, right? So you have heard right? Yeah or if there are guys who you can't bring in this year. This is a pretty narrow window guys who have a contract that you could add. Next year after the season resets because you don't have to worry about the hard time cuz they're already signed but that you couldn't add this year because of the hard cap, but it's like that's a very specific set of players off. Yep. So to me, it makes more sense to use at this season and to look for a player who has multiple years left on their deal or who you are pretty confident that you'd be able to re-sign a bird rights just because of that that concern of like if you're using it as cap space to sign in trade and Tatum is on twenty-five or thirty percent max like it's real hard math to work right unless you're moving a big salary elsewhere. Yep date when presumably be like MBA or JLo much. We think I assume the odds are pretty low. I mean, I mean, I mean we'll get to a certain guys like you you move them and the right choice, I think like we're talking obviously like Yiannis or like a Bradley Beal. And so the problem with that with that line of thinking is like if you're trading for Bradley Beal, you're using Jalen's money anyway, so you don't need the tree log. You don't need to use the trade exception under that circumstance. So you don't it's probably maybe we can buy at that point if it's jail and you have to add some other stuff but it's like okay Jaylon and Tristan Thompson and then you've got two bills Max or something like that, right? You don't need the exception wage. That's and that's important you remember for all these when people are throwing out names for this trade exception if it's a really good player like Jaylen Brown is going to have to go or Mark a smart feel like someone really long roaster is going to have to go like the subjects aren't going to be able to offer three first-round picks for Bradley Beal that the Wizards are going to say go screw. We're going to we want a young emerging all start from somewhere else which location and so that's where To your point where I'm like kind of breaking this up and find using this exception to get maybe some more just some cost control pieces that fit the roster better. It's probably the better bet than you know, thinking you're going to get on a you know, potential All-Star down the line. Yeah, and I mean that really could be the extent of like you get to the trade deadline and there's a team or a couple of teams that have fallen out and this actually a problem that might come up here is that this is going to be really scrambled weird season and there's Iowa play in tournament. And so like how many teams are going to be looking at be like we got to get into the plane through who are the real sellers going to be when you get all the way down to the end of its lines that are hemorrhaging money cuz of the pandemic probably. Yeah, I mean that might be more of what matters than like where exactly they are because other teams that are going to be in the 10:00 slot who are thinking that they can make into the playoffs anyway because as whatever but you're looking at the teams that like somebody who falls way out and you get to the trade deadline and you literally are taking a player because you're like, we don't really have anything else to use as form. We think you can be able to help us in the playoff. Really were buying your bird rights because we know we are going to have cap space forever and this gets you into I think John Hollinger wrote about the the bird right strap, right? It's this idea that once you have bird rights on somebody in your cap. You end up overpaying them because you're afraid to lose them and that becomes a concern that you have to maybe think about in there. But like you need to keep rolling this team forward in some Manner and again life is where I get to if you get to the beginning of next offseason and you haven't used it at all and you're thinking like I think at that point, you're more of a sort of a salary Dumping Ground for somebody looking to clear space working in that kind of Oklahoma City right now. They got really good players by being a Dumping Ground and a lot of value of it. So it's not like that's a that is a way you can operate but you have to be realistic about what you're getting is is players who some other team is saying like we're going to dump this guy so that we can go and sign the free-agent and that's not really what you're hoping for. Right, so that's and it's it puts you in a you know pressures odd that point cuz you have to use it and other teams know that and I think next offseason. There's gonna be a lot of walk-ins with cap room then this year so that, you know kind of will impact your options still be other places for those seems to go if they want to dump salary technically, I think mostly like this has worked out for the Celtics for more than a trade exception and that exact manner, you know, they they took Tyler Zeller and they got the first round pick that they flipped to become Isaiah Thomas and like that exact chain of events has has actually worked out but it's not something that you can count off every single time because sometimes the players that you need to have, you know, the units have somebody to dance with and if there's no other team that's looking to to behave in that way then it doesn't really get you anywhere on your thigh to contend here. You're not trying you're trying to being the rebuild where a first-round pick is like great. Absolutely. So, all right. So let's let's throw some names around here. From this run we're going to I mean, I'm sure you're doing this for much of the next ten months anyway, but have a huge list. We have a we have a list here. I'll throw let's throw out like three and a half to take turns. I think an easy place to look especially this season and I'll just throw this out as a team plays like Orlando. Yep, and you got I think like I mean you have any three candidates down there. I'm having like and I'm just thought memory you have you have Fournier making Seventeen million of Aaron Gordon who I think swing around 18 million and then Terrence Ross is down useful player making like around thirteen thirteen hours to happen. So yeah, who's who's interesting? You also that that list Iran who's supposed to do you make a right out there potentially. Yeah. I think the one who gets the most probably gets the most Dimensions right now in sort of Celtics internet sphere is Fournier to me. He's the least interesting of like clearly the most interesting that three is Aaron Gordon if you get Aaron Gordon floor You know draft picks functionally or a draft pick and Romeo Langford or something like that. And again that sort of the exact player is thinking about we're having like four be on the Shelf isn't great. Like that's not a situation that you want to be in at this point so that he could potentially build up trade value or prove that he's too good to be traded something like that. But Gordon is the one cuz again, you get two years so second year is descending the money next year doesn't matter all that much money. It's an amount of money that maybe puts you just over the luxury-tax but you could try to do some other things especially if you're trading out a player instead of just picks that you probably get back on your knees something like that. So I think he's clearly the most interesting one page then you would think Forty-Eight would be the next one. I don't really see his role on the team in a world where Campbell gets healthy. Yeah. He's kind of an on-ball Creator but he's a small guard. He's not a particularly good Defender. Like I just don't see where he fits Terrence Ross isn't a great defender either but he has there's a reason that he was always on my list of guys who you might want to trade Gordon Hayward for which is functioning what this would be and that's that. He has three years left on his heel including this one off. And descending value that would be eminently treatable next year a year down the line. You can shoot the ball. He's a little bit a little bit longer and bigger than fornia. Not a good hitter. But often in my mind to be like Gordon, obviously the most expensive but the one that you would Target and that is we have talked about on other times if he plays the way you need it to play would be basically the perfect fit Ross second 43rd South. Are you higher on on 48 than I am. That is the one that's been I see a lot today. Yeah. I mean not really cuz like you said it's it's it's one it's an expiring which I think makes it less appealing not that needs to make a ton. But I never know you never know exactly the subjects found that out the hard way to last couple of years and then on top of that I just think like, you know, what are the odds that he can be near closing 5 like not great if cannabis healthy and smarts good to go the other guys. Yeah, like like Gordon could be your closing 5 if you age He we know you know, he last year was a down year for him. He's had a very up-and-down career there in a mismatched frontcourt for him, but that's you know, his that could be good buy-low candidate and I guess Terrence Ross would be good. But then you drafted Nesmith hoping that you have Terrence Ross for like four million dollars for National years. That's that's not that he's going to be that that soon wage. But I think that's you know, if you need to get Ross in here. That's not a good sign for what what what needs to spend early as career. Yeah. I mean, I think you can make the you can never have too much shooting you can never have too many wings. Are you concerned with Alan pretty easily, But again it part I think you're you'd be going for Ross basically because your trade exception expires in a year and Ross makes it money over the next couple of years that you could package with other things and and you know potentially be looking at it sort of that Asset Management thing as well as a a roster management question, but like I said, I to me, it's coordinate like the obvious number one key. You need somebody who is big and can defend you want to you know dead. Wing Defender to take some of the pressure off Tatum. It says offensive role continues to expand it's hard to tell what his Market is exactly. I know exactly always been sort of asking about him in in a different times in columns over the last year and it's sort of thinking that his Market is pretty, you know, pretty diminished at this point and that probably isn't particularly high on him. So I don't know maybe there's a chance to to jump in their home particularly of Orlando were to fall out again. That's where you get to like if Orlando is hanging on the standings and they're looking at this draft class and saying like hey, you know a couple of extra spots down is we're quite a lot to us. Then Gordon would be the kind of life. You might want to move that's a good way to like the there should be a lot of teams trying to think this year if they're out of it. Yeah that balance between the play and tournament and tank and is something that I don't really know how to read because we have never had a play in tournament for the entire season before obviously and so it's just hard to get a handle on exactly how it's going to work with. You would think that some teams in the East particularly with the competitor. So the West I don't think the top of the West is a good as it's been for, you know, fifteen years. I don't think it's particularly great in terms of like three or four or five and in the west this year, but you expect there to be a lot of teams that win enough games out there that any anything that sort of slides down the standings in the East probably moves pretty high up in the lottery with the lottery odds, if you land at fifth or sixth you have a pretty good chance of getting a player who would who would have been the number one pick a year. So you might be looking at seems like Orlando that are looking to take it back of take a step back. And Aaron Gordon is like the exact type of player who props you up to win just a few too many games. So it might be that they are looking to move them at some point and and I do think that that would be a really natural fit with the rest of what the the team has. So that's that's sort of my my number one, you know me to throw a computer. Give me give me your give me the name. I'm going to eliminate one off the top which is Victor Oladipo. Who is the highest salary player who I think would make any sort of sense in this. I don't think he particularly make sense here. I don't think they're going to work with Indiana after sort of no way Jose. So I'm going to eliminate that off the top right he makes $21 if it's just under the hard cap, by the way have a calculator. I'm going to eliminate a couple of Depot but I'm gonna focus on another team and move sort of down the list of salaries and that San Antonio often have two players who are interesting one expiring Rudy Gay and one who's not expiring which is Jean Marie. Marie is another player who's very difficult for me to get a handle on life. Who what his value is. He signed an extension, you know before last season if not a huge extension, but it's four years 66 million that he has left. So it's not it's not nothing sort of Marcus Marty money markets Marty player not as greedy and winning play Z, but you know a a very good sort of nobody's exactly sure if he's a point guard or not guard not a great shooter. Maybe I'll develop it fantastic Defender and a player that again very young. So another player who you're picking up because you could help this team that maybe because the dog Great asset on the line. But how much would it cost to actually get how hires are the Spurs on having players like that? Are they at some point going to rebuild and basically same question we have with Orlando or they going to be like, hey, we're like three losses away from being from being like having a 10% chance at Cape Cunningham. And like is that just what we want to do do and do they start to look to move players like that and maybe regularize their backcourt a little bit where they have a couple of those, Oh gardy players. So those are two on San Antonio that interest me any anything that yeah. I mean yeah, Marie is That's I mean, like you said it will come down to cost for a guy like that gay. I'm not it's not a it's not it's not exciting. I also I mean, I wonder what I mean this is I think a pretty worst case scenario cover is because of his age, but I mean would it be worth to get bird rights? I'm like Aldrich for for the long-term. I don't think you can sit them under the walkway right managers. You'd have to move other stuff. He'd have to move like you'd have to move out of young Park 24600. So it's like right right there. You have to move something. I think you have to move too many assets to be worth it to buy. His birth is now on the bird rights front Rudy Gay's bird rights don't really have any value. You don't think he's thirty-four, right? So I agree that it's not like what you're looking for here, but I just sort of working my way down the list of like dead guys guys in teams here. I do like Patty Mills, but you have to take care now, so that's not going to happen and she has nothing left and they just get rid of them similar problems to to Rudy Gay that his birth probably don't have any value is his age, right? Yeah. He's a fun like I mean, that's a fun like it would be fun to watch him from a fifty. I mean, he's only thirty-two he's not much a Defender wage. Yeah, so he does. So any like I mean you can like that's a playoff proven guy who still shooting forty percent from 3 and just make stuff happens Off the Bench all the time. So like I mean, I cut Ki 2nd form you can get value. But yeah, I mean, that's right. He should be in the Rudy Gay category of like that's not great. But like is it a thing you're be interested. I don't think there'd be much interest in either of them to me. Marie is the one that's like Thursday is the timeline or Morris on him. Yeah. They have any buyer's remorse on and could you come in and and offer, you know, something legitimate but not huge and and get him. So yeah. All right. Let's give you another one here. How about let me pull this up? You want to look let me throw a couple more I got. I don't like these guys, but I think you have to put this team out here like the Cavs Like Larry Nance Jr. Yeah, the three year Thirty million that's been rumored forever. That's going to be there 13 that's probably count money, but that's not exciting. But that's just like that's a deal where at least you got a salary locked in a player that can play For You Off the Bench dead. And then husband is the other one. I assume like put out there. Yeah, I mean, I guess we did talk early on about how they might be playing a little bit bigger and Larry Nance would fit someone into that idea off of we're going to play more traditional power forty kind of stuff. I think that that's again more on the asset side where you're like trading for me cuz he's got three more years and it manageable dollars and that they might turn into something down the line that you're trading. I don't like love the fit in terms of playing in the playoffs or anything like that. But a little bit of Beggars can't be choosers here right this you're coming out of this from a not great situation and like it would be the worst thing in the world. But I think again, I'd like to have wings. I like to have shooting. He's not a player who I'm a particular fan of it all depend at all can't exactly that could have a shooter. He's not good enough with the ball to play with the ball. Like he's just kind of a player who's hangs out on a crappy teams is what I think of himself and I think it's probably the same for Terrence Ross, but he's been around longer and shoots a little bit better that was saying that Terrence Ross I would take so maybe I'm being unfair the wage. Um, I don't know not a huge fan. I mean, I have a lot of guys here you want older guys or younger guys? You may I guess younger guy last time Marie. So he was an older guy here any interest in that young age 32 Chicago sort of a you know, power forward Wing fish any interest there two marriages two more years. I'd feel like giving Nance Jr. Over him like it comes to get nothing right? Let me worry. Yeah, cuz and it's not guaranteed in the I think it's a habit or something like that, but I don't know. I think you could help the team and some amount. If you thought that you were a top-tier title Contender. I think that one makes a little bit more sense to me. But you know, you're looking for older guys who have a second year in the contract that you know other old guys Trevor Ariza is expiring you could probably have him for basically free. But I mean, he's like old now, how old is Aretha 3455 he actually put up pretty solid numbers at the Blazers another guy though. That doesn't have any bird rights don't really have any value and your it's really just a play for this year. I think with with a reserve but you're going to get that a lot with some of these older guys and then when you get sort of lower down into the salary range, there's some guys who become maybe more more interesting but you have you have any other ones that you want to talk about before or do you want to yeah, I mean stuff. Oh, here's the other couple of names that I think are intriguing. Denver I think the Wilburton Gary Harris like one of those two guys might be available. Yeah like cuz it's like they're kind of redundant and I'm not sure who you'd want and they both have another year left after this upcoming year. So you do log in some control there never might just be you know, they're in top off, you know, they look great and are in full container mode. They're not pretty not going to move either. But if they have a down here, I feel like one of those guys to be available at a pretty cheap price if they're looking to dump some salary. Yeah, I'd sneak across those guys off my list specifically because I thought they're going to be good enough where they won't want to do that kind of thing for an exception trade where you're not getting any current value back. I agree that there could be circumstances, whereby the trade deadline that they're looking to move one of them. It seems like they're going to be eating both of them having, you know, having having lost Jeremy Grant who was playing a little bit of three now. They're going to be playing Michael Porter at the four. Maybe. I think they're really going to need Gary Harris defense. So I think it would be more likely to to move off of off of Wilburton. But yeah, I mean, they're both okay, you're sort of in that same category if you get that guy and you're like, okay, that's the thing that happened that we got right that a lot of these guys are but I think those are both reasonable reasonable targets you want sort of on the off the scale of more interesting maybe people wouldn't think that they would become available. You want one of those from me? Yeah. How about Norman Powell Colin Powell makes ten million thoughts than eleven million dollar eleven point six million dollar player option next year. You would think that he's not going to pick that up, but would you bet your life that he's not going to pick that up because the Raptors having sign off. And Fleet if they want to go play in the max Market can't have him making eleven point six million dollars next year. So would they functionally salary dump him if they are the fifth seed and would you be interested in that? Same problem is again, he's probably going to opt out. So you're more if you're if he's playing well enough to want him. He's going to opt out and so you're basically buying his bird rights, but he also would be a player who would be valuable on this team this year and I think most often I got to rent those not going to be trading normal. Like why would they be doing that? They're trying to win right now, but they're not really trying to win right now. They're trying to set up a team to go and Chase the max free agent. And so I wonder if he becomes available as functional dump at some point during the year. And if you're trying to salary dump a guy you can trade in for an expiring contract. That's probably ideal for them. But trade exception does that as well? Yeah, that's a good point. I mean that they're going to be relation team given their complete overhaul in the front court and like if the stains you know base is a good sign for them. But if he gets home, then they've got you know, they're relying Alex Len to play study center. Very easily be be the fifth seed sixty something like yourself a sure, you know God but there are music and they're in a position where like they're just looking at me like, you know, what we're really playing for is especially if like, if you're honest doesn't sign the Superbowl to be a fridge and they've been setting everything up for that and the normal option and suddenly they're trying to like jump in for first-round picks while they're shoveling stuff around and you know, as we've seen with other teams have to do that when you're when you really get caught like that you can have to pay off quite a lot to trade Andre Iguodala was like a good player sell, right? You don't want to get caught in that spot. So I do think that there's a circumstance where you've got again. I I sort of wish that second year was guaranteed because God Under those circumstances. I think that would be basically knowing that they have to dump him and that he would have more value to a team like Celtics that option makes it a little bit complicated, but I think it's an interesting player who certainly could help. You know fits into the trade exception, I think exactly I mean and that's that's like a no-brainer. I'm going back high up the list. Okay, I'm one of the exact opposite of George Hill AutoCheck Score first. Okay. Yeah fairly right if it's barely ten million dollars you $10,000 you could get in for free hard cap. Can't get them raids. Yeah. Yeah, I said that's why Victor Oladipo as the top of my contract. Thinking I'm being next season and that's but he's expires that's not going to work. Yeah. So if you talking about the players who go into next season when you roll and don't have to worry about the hard cap anymore you suck up enough player who we've talked about in other circumstances, which is Harrison Barnes probably gets you to close to the hard cap or makes the hard cap very difficult to manage this year. But next year he's making twenty and then he has eighteen months after that. So you get into like a would that have any interest in anybody? You also get any interest in playing the Draymond Green game of Golden State tanx tanx, if a creator with, you know, Clay dog, You're getting it to you know, again next year stuff buddy hield. It's too much to really work out here. I'm not a money. Would you guys out there? Would you offer for exactly the a clean? Yeah, I didn't even Mark him on my cuz I don't like off guard. So I just like to put on my list cuz I like I don't like, guards. I don't want to pay 19 and 1/2 million dollars exactly mean. I think that one is interesting if Tampa doesn't it kind of looks great if off for like an all offense defensive limited player, which is not if you're in that position already you kind of have to ask if you're if it's worth it like But there's no outright. There's no tanking for this team. There's no like taking a giant step back and going to draft at this point. So you could yourself in a position where you're basically stuck and you're like, oh kimbo's and you looks bad and what are we going to do? And it's like yeah. Okay Zach LaVine it is I don't think it's impossible. But yeah, I'm not I'm not fair. I just don't like that positional archetype. Yeah. I mean, it's not a greyish like yeah and it's an all offensive player, which you just came is not all about in general. So but that is in terms of if you want most upset offensively. That's probably the best you're going to do with that money great offensive player. I mean, I don't think there's any doubt that he can he'd be able to score at a high level on a good team. It's just whether or not he'd be able to be a positive that player on a really good team is maybe an open question, but I got a bad contract for you. Okay are recorded. Yeah, when I cross up listen, I was like he'd have to prove that he's playing. Well this year he has to be in a situation where he's playing. Well in Houston isn't which I think is a possibility. He could just bounce back here while while they're in like total turmoil of nobody wanting to be there anymore. And and he does look a lot better and you could probably have them for free I again come again something to take them. Oh you probably I'm sure you would actually but it's just like they don't have anything to give off. I guess they do now cuz they got thanks for coming standing right here stuff like that. Yeah, see how much Tillman's certain. Yeah. I mean, I he's another guy like I had highlighted on my list and I sort of clicked it off like it's a long one. Yeah. All right. So, what do you got? Much much lower on the salary scale same team. PJ Tucker. Everybody loves PJ Tucker PJ Tucker George Hill done, like everybody in the walk away. If you can get them knock that out Alfred Camino coming off of major surgery about a year ago. You could probably em for free from another Orlando guy who we skipped over was on my list. Another Chicago guy. We didn't talk about Iran ski again. It came up doesn't look right and you're looking for somebody more on the creative side as opposed to a wing. He's a big, you know, big point guard. He can do a little bit of wing defending but ten million a next year possibility and then you get into guys who you sort of get into the salary range if it's like you don't need a giant trade exception to trade for a lot of these guys as you get the soldering so I think that's pretty much everybody who I had on my list Cory Joseph. We didn't mention everybody knows who Cory Joseph is. Oh and then the last one I had was I don't think these two teams will trade but you want table In prints because Brooklyn, I don't know exactly what their relationship is to paying the luxury tax at the moment and it's hard to calculate luxury-tax right now because they're going to cut the tax payments based on how bout far revenues fall below expectations, but they're about twenty million over the projected tax line now or they are projected to be twenty million above the tax line. Now, she's like a thirty-something million dollar tax bill, even if money is drop 25% So it might be a situation where they could dump them and save like thirty million dollars in salary and tax and if they could just give em away for nothing and obviously you could give away for nothing and took exception. He's not I don't trust them we've talked about it before is not good on on the Nets. I think we talked with Rich about you know months ago about what his or a month ago. Maybe it just seemed like months ago bout how he's not a particularly good Defender, even though he looks like he is one but he was the last guy in my list of like you could have him and then the last player who might fit but really last player is Marcus part. We could put Marcus Smart Hub. No, so that's pretty much the entire list. I had there's certainly plenty of other guys who make salary in that arranged JJ Redick justise Winslow in a million other guys who for a variety of reasons. I sort of crossed out, you know God I like having you know, I'm looking for guys who ideally have, you know have more than one year or who I think they're that they're bird rights have some value. Could always bring back to write Powell. We could always bring back to my pal, but I'm not looking for Center. So you want you want to send her coming off Achilles tear probably not we get TJ Warren after all this grab another joke that I made and everybody made is Myles Turner. What is funny? Cuz Indiana Prime more than any other team has guys to trade into this Beyond Turner like Jeremy, they just have so many years now Jeremy Lamb you hear about to say I never I don't know if Jeremy Lamb's ever going to play like his his injury was so horrific. I don't know maybe able to tell you what he looks like, but hopefully he does cuz you got guy but right but that's all right. So yeah, that's a we're going to be I feel like talking about this all year long way. That's a good primer for everyone in terms of the type of guys. The sensors are probably looking at heading into this season, which we've got we've got preseason basketball Ryan two weeks away dead. How excited are you? Is it that long away? Yeah might not even it's December 15th for the Celtics. Yeah, so a little over two weeks maybe a less than two weeks away home and catch the fee. You were don't know you're not catch. Catch the day healthy people. Yeah. I hope that they have a season that starts with E. And and that's okay. I'm concerned with the state of the NFL that that it won't but yeah in theory will have games in a couple of weeks and then real games in in less than a month too crazy. But yeah, so follow Sports podcasts and talk about basketball. You hear your first all right fall Ryan at danger Curt on Twitter Falls at winning play Sponge with any feedback questions, right and left questions. They'll send him more questions and please rate review subscribe to the winning place. Podcast on iTunes Spotify or wherever you listen, we'll be back later this week. I think we're going to hear from Danny Ainge. I want to see on Tuesday along with the subject new signing so there should be some stuff to react to their as well as beginning of cease training camp. So stay tuned for that and thanks for listening.

Celtics Hayward Bradley Beal Tristan Thompson Nic Batum Charlotte Ryan Brad Stevens Kemba Jaylen Brown Grant Williams Tatum NBA Romeo Langford Brian Rob Jess co ryburn dhoni Terrence Ross thirty percent wa