18 Episode results for "Brian Mulroney"
#BTeamDJs Vol6_09 Day Away Midday Mix
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Former Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin
"This is a CBC podcast. Hi I'm Laura Lynch. This is a podcast. podcast from the December seventeenth edition of the current a country girl of no consequence who rose to the summit of the Canadian judiciary when Beverley McLaughlin thinks back on her life. This is what she sees. She grew up sweeping floors in her family's log house and was told by her grade. Eight teacher she had no oh employable skills turns out she did becoming the first female chief justice of the Supreme Court of Canada I spoke with Beverly McLaughlin in September. She just released her memoir. Truth be told my journey through life and the law you are the first justice of the Supreme Court to write an autobiography. If I'm not so I'm told yes and a colleague advised you not to do it. Why did you decide to go ahead and write it well? It wasn't really call when I got spoon credit. Can't I heard this apocryphal story story of somebody. I can't even remember the name. One of the judges who'd been asked to do his auto biography and he said let me think about it over the weekend. He came back on Monday having being thought about it and he said The answer's no living at once was enough and I always thought that showed a certain wisdom but people I respected people people who care about women's place in the world and about diversity and and about just encouraging young people said. Do you know your story could help young people and People who might otherwise not venture something that they would love to do or or people who might otherwise give up a hard our time and You should write it and so that was why I did it. When when you were appointed chief justice some people were hailing it as an advance for women's rights? It's been but you were less convinced why I always hoped that when I received a promotion It would would be one that I would have the ability to fill and So it was about being a good judge and being having the capability ability or the potential To really make something of the Office of Chief Justice the fact that I was woman of course was important. And you know I didn't realize the time how important Because it was only in later years after I'd been at chief justice for a few years that I realized the role Oh model aspect of this job was one of the most important things about it. it encourage so many people people come up with their little girls in their little boys and say this is our chief justice and it wasn't about me or who I was as an individual. It was about the fact that our country had a very the important port its highest court headed by a woman and that example that a woman could be there in that position and was so inspiring to people and I realized it wasn't about me personally. It was about the fact that for many people that I was that there was a woman in that position Russian. Okay let's go way back to sixty eight when you were coming out of law. School talk about what Canada was like for women seeking to practice law in the late nineteen sixty well. I always felt like an impostor put it that way it was. The law was very much a man's domain. We're women were tolerated if they could Do Good work about where they didn't have any sense of ownership or entitlement and it was A very different time. It was a time when sexual innuendos and off-color jokes In the presence of the women in our class were was totally okay or thought to be okay and the same kind of culture prevailed in some law firms but later on on what I started practicing I was lucky to go to a great firm and they treated they had they had had other to other women there before one there when I was there and They they had respect except you still had to share an office with the. Yeah Yeah we work our way through these things girls could. The girl says they were called. co-chairing charron office but everybody else got their own office. And of course in the book I tell story how how China simply took her. When I was when I became lawyer to lawyers? She put up with it while I was a student but when I became a lawyer she just piled dollar books and she went into the she left and the women's back there there was this frantic scrambling to resign because of course everyone liked her respected. Her she did terrific work and and I said you might find her in the wash where she was blowing smoke rings. We finally persuaded her to come back and she got her own office. But you know you had to do things like that sometimes sometimes to make sure you you actually held your ground. And maybe gained a little so it was really in the nineteen seventies law started to change for women in the country and you're at ub by then and you that those were heady days to be teaching you were teaching teaching the law of evidence. And I'm wondering if there's one case in particular that illustrated that for boy. Oh I can't think of a case at that time in the seventies but This was a time when I think second wave. Feminism was was gaining ground and we we had all these books by Germaine Greer and also of other people and and people started talking About the law and sexual assault and the How biased did was against complainants and The women who were complaining that they had been assaulted and there are all sorts of archaic rules on the book like I e. If a woman had given what the Archaic English language called the Hue and and cry immediately after the the assault than her evidence would be devalued or not heard or if she didn't have cooperation and there was the law of evidence. allowed a cross examination on any kind of sexual encounter that the woman might have had and there was an assumption that if if she had had any kind of sexual encounter with anybody before That that she could not be believed and so there is a reliable was just riven with these myths that I guess had built up over the centuries to protect protect People man man who had who who had done these things and so I'm trying not to get ahead of ourselves but you you do end up having to revisit that when you avenue Saddam before we get there though the the girl from pincher creek with no employable skills you begin this what I would see as this rocket legacy up through the judiciary in one thousand nine hundred five your pointed to the highest court in the Court of Appeals. And you say that this is when you really began to feel the weight that the comes with being a i. What did you mean now? I don't want to over blow this. The the colleagues my chief justice Nathan the mets they were they were very very welcoming but I did feel very lonely. I felt that as the first woman There was next to just an extra burden. Because everybody's looking to see. How are you going to do now? That had been there before too. But it's is amplified when you're the first person in a position and we're only three years later then. Prime Minister Brian Mulroney called and asked she'd be the next chief justice of the Supreme Court of DC which is a trial court. Yeah so and you turn them down. Why well I did at first but in the end I didn't it was very difficult time for me? Because of my husband was dying Had A young child I was quite happy on the Court of Appeal And being a chief justice of Trial Court in a busy province is a very big job up and It requires very long hours in addition to sitting and I always the thing I loved about. Judging most host was listening to cases I always said even if I got to be chief whatever I would want to continue to hear the case so then I thought about all the administrative overload owed. I thought about the fact that my husband would be passing. I thought about the fact that I had an eleven year old son. Who needed some care that there'd been huge changes in our lives lives and it just didn't seem the right time for me and so I I said no but Brian Mulroney was extremely persuasive? He kept hold you every day every everyday for a while. He was amazing. I hear his plummy voice on the other end of the line. And how is your husband today and we discussed that and and and finally finally My husband was very ill but sometimes he wasn't too aware because of the medications he was on but I went into his room and he said who's been calling and he told him. That was the prime minister and and he must have been at some level very surprised. What does he want and I said well he wants me to be chief justice of the the trial division of the Supreme Court and he and Rory said you should do it so then I I changed my mind? I thought this is a man who loves me. Who knows host me better than anybody else and who has always been right about my career decisions and helped me make them and at that point I thought but I cannot go against him? Now you got you got you probably got most things he wanted but then it was on seven months into into your appointment to the Supreme Court when he called again. Yeah and he he he he was asking you what this time. Well he wanted me to go on the Supreme Court of Canada Canada and And that was even bigger now. My husband Rory ironically had an. I always thought that this was US madness. But he had always said you're going to end up on the Supreme Court of Canada. And he had all these plans about how we'd move to Ottawa on the life we would have there and I would laugh and just say that's not possible. It's it's incredibly. It's not right it's just won't happen and then there there. I was seven months. It's after seven eight months after his death and I was being asked to do the very thing that he had predicted. So I I really again. For the same reasons I described earlier earlier. Couldn't say no but I was ready to in that case because I felt that we'd had too many changes in our lives. Amerson me it would just be another change. And I was concerned for him so we were Australia at the time having a bit of a vacation And he got up in the morning and and he said to my surprise he said you should do it. And how old was his twelve. Okay and you moved out of wine you were. When you were sworn in Justice Bertha Wilson who was the first woman named right to the Supreme Court of Canada? She said something to yeah. We were on the bench and I just taken my oath and and I'm moved on and she. She leaned over. She wasn't sitting beside me and she stage-whispered today down six to go earth God is and she was such a such a wonderful woman. Of course I told that story humorously I thought out a speech a few weeks later and it provoked Volk to a letter to the editor saying what does this new judge on the Supreme Court thinks. She's doing can you. She she suggesting we should have nine women women on the court and of course in the tradition of justices on the court. You don't reply to that. You don't respond to that kind of thing but I really each to respond in that case because because I would have said well court survived over one hundred years with nine men might also survived nine women. But I never did that so I want to talk to you about some of the cases you heard in your time. The Supreme Court and I'm going to have to start with Rodriguez Rodriguez a woman from Vancouver island living with Al Lesson seeking and assisted suicide which was illegal at that time You were wrestling with something personal when it came time to sit on that case. Yeah well I had just been through the illness and final times of my husband. Rory and We had he was suffering very badly toward the a new note and at one point. He told me he wanted to take his life but he wanted me to help him. But I I had been unable to do that. I always. He's thought about that. And unfortunately he passed very soon thereafter in any event. But I saw the suffering at the end and and and I saw the the desire to die with dignity when you still had a measure of control over your over over you capacities and your life but I was. I was wondering in my own mind whether it was a bit close to it. And I talked to my chief Tony Lemaire about it and he said no and he's he was right. I mean I've always was known and always believed that judges. We want diverse bench. We want people with different experiences so that they can relate to the problems of the people before them and I and and I felt yes. I can't sit on this case. I won't be biased. I can listen to the evidence I can look at this objectively and so I did sit on on the case and I wrote what was the main dissenting judgment on it. as The the majority five to four. It was close upheld the a ban on a very narrow suicide. Yeah and at that time it was Kevorkian days. It was days when people were very worried about slippery slope And and I was worried about that too but I felt that there could be a conditions put in place to make sure that the choice to seek assistance was An honest honest objective. One that was firmly made And and and rationally thought through and that it was not a whim and with all those this kind of conditions I thought the objections and the fears that this would be a slippery slope to people quietly euthanizing troublesome parents or grandparents. Dan Parents I felt that those things could be managed through the law. So and and as we know Rodriguez later did die with the assistance of a doctor who has to this day. Unnamed unnamed Two decades later the court took it up again and ruled that criminalizing assisted suicide violated the Char. The charter tell me about that moment for yeah well that was near the end of my time on the court and numerous the Carter case and of course there was a lot more evidence by then that could be dealt with in a in a moral well and Accountable way. The question of always is in law. Can you overrule previous President and win. Can that happen. The answer is rarely But we said in the Carter case that There can be times when it is demonstrable that the social context the the conditions that the concerns that animated previous decision or are no longer the same and in that case the court can look again at the question. which is what happened? Happened in the Carter case you also cases we we were talking before that challenge sexual assault law and you wrote decisions especially one that were pilloried by women and and I'm wondering if you could tell me about making those difficult decision ones that you knew would bring the wrath of well. A lot of people Feel feel that judges simply vote their personal values or their ideology and that is certainly not the way in Canada We were dealing rolling with newly enacted and Very Praiseworthy Provisions enacted by Parliament. Sexual strain in could be cross examined so the on on their sexual history so the law had said no cross examination on previous sexual events the issue was they Whether in some cases it might be important to be able to cross examine on a particular previous sexual encounter her so on the one hand. You have the charter value of a full and fair. Defense and the argument being by the defendant in this case. I can't tell a whole story. Sorry because I can't ask the complainant about anything to do with previous sexual encounter. The argument on the other is that women should never have have to face any interrogation on prior sexual encounters even with the same person or an any circumstances and The court decided decided that the way the law was drafted it was to absolute and that there could occasionally be a situation where it was necessary to allow full and fair defense defense and that was what Seabra case decided but it absolutely brought down the wrath of The feminist community and many of my friends and so so on but the decision has the test of time. And for you though it was very difficult but you know I I always as a judge said. I'm going to go to the conclusion that I think is the right one and I will not worry about whether people personally criticize me or not. And that's your job and that's why justices justice is how judges have independence so you took the heat and and you let the judgment speak for it exactly. You never respond or at least I never did but there is another time when you did respond. It wasn't a judgment. There is a picture in the book of You with two former prime ministers. Brian Rooney Justin Trudeau. Whose Prime Minister when when you retired from the court but you were also so the chief justice through the Stephen Harper years and you had kind of a public dust up with Stephen Harper in two thousand and thirteen? What did he accuse you of well? He the I woke up to See a headline saying Prime Minister says something to accuses Chief Justice of impropriety and the story was is that I had inappropriately Tried to prevent a certain justice. Justice don't from being appointed to the Supreme Court which which was totally false so this is very very troubling your reputation as and perhaps my future. I mean if I had done something improper. How could I continue tenure as chief justice so I thought about it? I said we're going to answer back in this case because the public is entitled to the facts so gave a very brief press release and the first slide said I have done nothing wrong and the second line said these are the facts and I set them out. I had a conversation with the justice minister on a related issue but not mentioning this person's name at all he wasn't even in the mix it that you know at at a certain date. I knew win. That date was I knew the substance of the conversation. I'd kept records and and I set out the facts on the chronology and that was it if other people the prime minister as other facts let him bring him forward he never did and I would never presume to say what brought it on but some people have suggested in newspapers and other places that that you know. There was some smarting at a series of decisions and that had gone against The Prime Minister Senate reform among them things like that so there may have been something they cut but I have no idea so as I say in the book. It's all speculation. I don't think it was personal in any way but you have to tell me about the new dog. Oh yes so how that ties into all of so. Oh I was feeling rather down. I always had Dogs to comfort me Labrador retrievers. But my last one had died and then I found myself in the middle of all this unprecedented good situation where I was being accused of wrongdoing by the by the prime minister and so it wasn't the happiest time of my life and I was downstairs working on the next day's case and I got a call from Warren Winkler who he was the former chief justice of Ontario and he raised black labs labs he he he was calling me. Say you had a good one but he said of course. You're much too busy for this. And I said yes I am My husband and I have decided we can't take on another dog right now. Oh and I went up stairs in frank looked at me and he said tell them we'll take it and then we joked about we. We wondered what we should call it. And I in a moment of levity said I think I'll call it harper so I can say Harper set harper lie down bad boy harper but that was just a joke and better. Common Sense prevailed and the dog is named Darcy. Mr Darcy from Jane austen's wonderful novel Because I jokingly say he's. He's dark handsome and the folly of my old age. Perfect I just WANNA touch on an initially that I know is near and dear to your heart has access to justice this week. The Supreme Courts hearing cases outside of Ottawa. For the first time. I'm wondering what access to justice means to you. Well I think it's a many facets thing but that may be part of it during my time as chief justice we didn't have hearings outside Ottawa. But we did travel all to every province just so that people wouldn't feel. Ottawa was so remote that the Supreme Court was some remote institution we would we. We made a point of meeting with lawyers and judges in those different jurisdictions. And so there's value in that and in a sense that at least a At very least perceptibly makes the court seem a more accessible institution my main concern in access to justice this has been to allow people who are not wealthy people who are at the bottom end of the social scale Women who get turfed out of their a homes sometimes with children people who are facing serious charges And sometimes not so serious but in danger of getting getting on that treadmill of the Criminal Law System Young people that they should get proper legal representation and we're not there but we have made considerable. Oh progress first of all. This was hardly spoken of as an issue couple of decades ago now there are literally hundreds of organizations not profit organizations is asics across the country lawyers and other concerned individuals helping individuals individual women men children use the justice the system and that is very important we may not see a lot of figures but we know that those people who would otherwise not have been helped who had never got through through their legal morass and been able to resume their lives in a proper way a productive way that they are getting help. And so it's a chipping away sort of thing but we. We are providing a lot of help through various ways that was not there before you let the court two years ago I'm wondering what would that little girl going. Stir crazy impinge on this journey that you've had well it's pretty incredible and I hadn't realized how incredible it was until I sat down to actually write the book on. I'm really glad glad. In retrospect that I did because it It may reflect on that journey which too often one. Just this shunts all those things in the past side particularly the The things that were hard and you don't want to think about the things that were hard but I said if I'm going to do this book I'm going to face the the things that were hard for me to and I'll try to do it as honestly as as I can as I remember it or as I felt belted at the time and so it was very cathartic and reaffirming an amazing to me. Ah To look at the ARC of of my story and my career which which was incredible and and I it also made me realize along the way a the people who had pushed me to another level when I would've given up and I've been very very fortunate in my life whether it be people might my people in my family mentors people who said when I was doubting we believe in you and you can do it and so for that. I'm very very grateful. Those were that was my takeaway having written it. Incredible life indeed and a very good book and I thank you for coming in to talk about it thank you it's been a pleasure. Beverly McLaughlin is a former chief justice of the Supreme Court of Canada and the author of truth be told my journey through life and the law. I spoke with her in September for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
Episode 008 - A Real Plan to Protect The Environment?
"I remember the like the guy came in and he had this spray bottle acid rain you sprain on everybody brought a great and then the guy who refused spray some acid rain on the kids. Kids welcome back to putin politics is adam. This is mike last week we talked about about climate change solutions this week. We are going to talk about the conservative. Climate change plan the plan that they have titled a real plan to protect our environment for reference. You can find this plan at a real plan dot c._a. You can download the p._d._f. And you can read through the document my my initial thoughts on this document. Are it's not enough. It's not bad but it's not great. I give it a three point six out of one hundred. I i was going to be nice and say ten. I'm giving it three point seven hundred all right. This is useless anyways so what i did was i was reading through. It and i kind of went page by page made some notes handwritten notes. I'm old school. I like that a lot of this is gonna sound like criticism. If you're a conservative supporter i again i don't. I don't feel bad because i that's the first thing i'm gonna do with anything. Everything is i'll see the good in it but i'm going to criticize the hell out of it as well and it doesn't matter what party it is that this is. This is what i do. I can say that i i look get an effective. A thing is going to be. Is it going to be effective. Like are you just talking magical or are you talking actual implementable plan and there's some things that can be taken that are good but i'm looking for them so some of the some of the stuff that i went over and i'm gonna kinda seem kind of nitpicky but i'm okay with that. We start just after the table of contents of this thing with a message from this year so some of the things that he talks about in in this message that i'm already taking issue with and some people are going to be like oh. It's a pretty stupid thing to take an issue with <hes> not not in case you don't live in canada and are unaware the conservative party. I used to be called. The progressive conservative party had a major split in the early nineties where and as a result there were multiple parties that formed from that. Let's split so the progressive conservatives remained a sh- a huge shadow of their former selves but the reform party the block becua- and and technically even the green party was created as a result of that chisholm. Some people like well. The green party is a left leaning party and again look at their policies again and you'll see that they've serve kind of on both sides of the fence the two right-leaning parties the reform which eventually became the canadian alliance and the progressive conservatives did end up joining forces again to become the conservative party. The current conservative party is treating themselves like they are the old progressive conservative party and so in the message manager sheer he mentions sirjani mcdonald rubber borden decent baker brian mulroney and it's like these are all conservative values so the problem i have with it. Is that uh-huh okay. They're progressive conservative values but they're not conservative values the way the conservative party is now. No i as a longtime conservative person you you grew up with moroni. I look at the conservative party now and i'm like you not doing the things that conservative person would do like you're doing things that are opposite counterintuitive exertive platform would be we want to reduce <hes> spending. We don't want to put as much money social programs. I'm fine with that but give tax breaks to wealthy. No that's not how that works and to put money. Take money away from education and research. No conservatives are the ones that want to do that because they know that's where the money goes. That's who get more money exactly a well. Educated population leads to increases in g._d._p. Which leads leads to an increase in government revenues which leads to surpluses may be paying off the debt items of that nature so again very nitpicky thirty point but i feel like it's still kind of appointing on the less. The plan says that the carbon tax gives big polluters pass but then further on down the document it does mention jn that amidror's currently pay a carbon tax on emissions above fifty kilotonnes. So which is it do they do they pass or or do they pay a carbon tax once they met beyond beyond a certain amount and that's fifty kilotonnes per year i will admit the average the the individual is paying a large the percentage of the current carbon tax bots what this document neglects dimension because we obviously don't want to make the other party look good is the fact that a lot out of the carbon tax that is being paid by the individuals is being refunded to the individuals by way of a tax credit on their tax return and again and some people will argue and say well why it's a redistribution of wealth or it's you know why bother taking the money from the individuals if you're just gonna give it back to them anyways and you know what if a three hundred dollar credit is a redistribution of wealth. We're not very wealthy the average person with driving. Let's say a standard sedan. Let's say something like a camry or or something of that nature. If they're driving you know the twenty to twenty five thousand kilometers a a year that the average driver would drive what they're paying in carbon tax by putting fuel into their car right now at least in two thousand nineteen in ontario. Maybe maybe tops out at one hundred bucks if that person is a single individual no kids no spouse and lives in g._t._a. Their carbon tax credits one hundred in fifty dollars on their tax return. Now there's some extra there could be some extra carbon tax they would pay. Let's say if they heat their house with natural gas that carbon tax is relatively low. It's three point one cents per cubic meter. So you gotta you gotta do the measurement on it but when you add those two things together that single individual the visual is either breaking even on the carbon tax. Maybe paying a little bit more than what they get back paying a little bit less than what they get back so again to the to the average single individual. It's probably not going to cost them anything yeah and not to dahlem weeds. If people know that it's gonna cost us more to do a certain thing they might look at other ways to reduce that cost and they might look away reducing their carbon footprint which is what the the goal of the carbon taxes you have turned the behind the carbon tax or to find out how it can benefit people document talks a lot about <hes> costs to families and individuals us <hes> and again does it never mentions the fact that <hes> most will receive back more than their cost i can i can say i can point to that and say okay well. That's that's the liberal propaganda of of it saying well. <hes> people are going to get more money than what they pay into the carbon tax and that's in yes that's in kind of the liberal documentation of the carbon tax and i'm i'm pointing out the fact that there are people that will get more back in carbon tax than what they pay. Some people will cost the groceries are going to get more expensive expensive. You know what the cost of groceries were probably get more expensive regardless if there was a carbon tax or not well the other thing about it is that a carbon tax doesn't necessarily have to if you you look at the example for australia. Their economy didn't claps. Their economy didn't go into recession. It got stronger the idea that a carbon in taxes going to drastically increase pricing or these fearmongering tackett tactics that is just the world's coming to an end because in like you're gonna lose. All these jobs things like that. It doesn't occur it. Just it doesn't the numbers the experiments the different countries that have implemented this have seen no no difference so it doesn't. They're not applicable because it's a it's a goal to go towards and yes. It does impact the economy but it's not this drastic in price. You won't notice it. You would you just they don't notice the difference. I'll appoint to be which has had a carbon tax since i believe two thousand and seven go look at the economy for bbc <hes> they're the show a graph and it shows china being the top which we are. We know this. Nobody's going to deny that china commits a lot of carbon dioxide and carbon dioxide equivalent carbon emissions so that's fine. I understand china's got to reduce their emissions to. I'm not not gonna get into how i feel about that. Where the why the emissions are as high as they are. I mean they have a large population but it's a lot more than that. The chart does show that china's emissions have also leveled off off over the last number of years so you can kind of look at that and say here. They still emit a lot of c._o. Two a lot of carbon emissions but they are doing something about it. I find it interesting that the level it off two thousand sixteen when china started implementing all their things to reduce them. They're going down now not up yeah so <hes> and then ah goes onto mention the candidates roughly one point six percent of global emissions which yes okay again in the grand scheme of things doesn't sound like a lot but when you compare that to the fact that canada is roughly zero point only five percent of the population were swinging above our weight <hes> compare china's emissions percentage of global emissions to its percentage of the population and you'll see that per capita canada does emit a a larger amount per person than china. Does some people say that's not a fair assessment. Whatever either either way whatever assessment you wanna use every country that emits carbon emissions needs to reduce them. That's right so the first main section of the of the document it is called green technology not taxes and so they they talk some fancy buzzwords like green investments standards green investments standards certification and they give some examples of what those green investments are so the so what the conservative policy involves. They're not calling it a carbon tax. <hes> i'm kind of it kind of carbon tax in a sense except the money doesn't go to the government so in this section they talk about <hes> that they're trying to target businesses more than individuals okay so and what they've also says that they're actually they're lowering the the a standard or or maybe it's. Maybe it's increasing. Maybe it's increasing the standard <hes> for when those businesses would start paying the carbon tax so right now large mirrors start paying the federal carbon tax <hes> above fifty kilotonnes of co two co two equivalent per year. The conservative plan wants to take that number from fifty down to forty so the idea being that it's it's a lower amount of emissions to start paying into essentially this quote unquote tax because again. They're not calling it a tax because the revenue is not going to the government so what you end up what you're supposed host to do. Is these larger middle once they go over the forty forty kilotonnes. They're supposed to take money from their own pockets and they're supposed to invest it in some mm sort of <hes> maybe a company that is inventing green technology invested in to green bonds which will allow companies that are trying trying to do research and development or trying to implement green technologies that they'll have some that they'll be able to borrow funds from. Maybe like as a pool to make their products to do the to do the prototyping to do the to to to expand to release the idea is that if you're a polluter you have to invest in <hes> something that's going to improve green technology and that's something has to be certified by government government auditors to say that it is a qualified green investment initiative so they're making a solution that creates more red tape so that's why they're going to fund it. They're gonna they're going to make rather than having it attacks because everyone doesn't like the word tax. They're going to call it. Whatever so that maybe they're called a feet so it's rather than calling attacks. They're going to say okay well. You have to fund this and rather then re allocating the resources which is simple and straightforward. They're going to say we're going to reallocate the resources from these people that are going to be hit the exact same way. You're not just because you're saying it's not a tax. They're still paying the same price. Are you going to give you one better. One of the one of the examples that given the document about a green an investment is investing money in a subsidiary or a division of a canadian company that does eligible research to green technology so technically a company like a son core they could create a whole bunch of these subsidiary companies and when they go oh over that forty kilotonne limit they could start taking money from the sun core say parent company and invest it into these soc- their own subsidiaries subsidiaries and as long as they've received certification for the research that they're doing the research into green technology carbon capture sequestration as long as they get certified by the government that what they're doing is an eligible investment. They can move that money into the company the way i'm reading the document or at least there's not maybe it's it's just a problem of not enough information to be able to fit into a document like this. It doesn't say that the investment into this eligible research has to actually result salt in a finished product so it becomes as an expense that the company can use to reduce its taxes yeah so it's either a either a they're going a pay it anyway or be. They're not gonna pay it may result in some greener technology breakthroughs but there's no guarantee there's no guarantee and and the incentive isn't to find ways to reduce their carbon footprint. It's fine ways to reduce their tax implications tsk. I don't wanna i don't i'm not trying to sound cynical but i mean they're win and like you said well right exactly why wouldn't i and like you said like adding this layer ear of certification and government government government oversight process. You're right it adds red tape. I thought the conservatives were like <hes> like a lower government. Regulation and smaller government kind of party kind of like the republicans say they are in the united states obviously aren't yeah. I don't get that like why are you adding red-tape this year so if you're trying to get them to reduce into technology fine but rather than using using the government as a lever in a mechanism to make sure the money spent a certain way you're going to allow the company to figure out where they're going to spend and and you expect the company to be you know not try to go after their bottom line the bottom line the government is in place so that way companies can't cheat the system or not. I shouldn't say cheat. The system are going to do what's in the best interest of the country right so the government can't wants to it's in the best interests of the country the business whichever one it is like the coal fire plant is in the best interest of the coal fire plant can't if they're gonna do whatever makes the most money for them so whatever they can do to get around that and you're just going to create extra layers of people that have to go in and figure stuff like that hurts okay so so that's the that's the green investment standards that they want to introduce green homes tax credit will be a twenty percent refundable credit on expenses over a thousand dollars up to a maximum of twenty thousand dollars for improvements ms to your house to make your to make the carbon footprint of your say your house less so you know adding adding more insulation to your to your attic or are installing a high efficiency furnace or air conditioner <hes> putting solar panels on your roof items like that. It's a tax credit. It's gonna they want to introduce it as a tax tax credit that you can apply for on your tax return. I'm okay with this one. I'm not but not like in love with this one so it's a it's because it's it's another one of those what feels like a boutique tax credits because there's really only a <music> certain sub section of the population that is going to be eligible to utilize this credit for the rich right. This is not for the average person. The average person can't afford it now. Here's the part of it that i don't like. It's only apparently early going to have it last for two years so all all of these improvements and upgrades that have had to be done within two years so it's even more of a tax credit for the rich the rich ken do this within two years people that aren't i don't have a wealth of money just to sitting around. They can't do that right. It's a complete tax credit for the rich and it's also so a gloss over. Oh we'll look what we tried to do. You didn't try to do you just wanted to make it look so on in the document they estimate that this credit that it would cost the government roughly nine hundred million dollars a year. Give or take but that's their estimate so again. If being a two year plan to your plan you know let's say one point eight two billion dollars in in government costs so based on how much credit you're eligible for and what you have to spend to receive that credit. I figured the math out that <hes> the the minimum investment from individuals would have to be at least four point seven billion dollars in improvements per year on at least two hundred and thirty seven thousand households in a year and not everybody is not everybody that would utilize this credit is going to get the maximum credit because you know maybe you can only afford to do so much like i. I know when i had when i had my furnace air conditioner installed a few years ago and had all the duct work done that was pretty close to ten thousand dollars in co for us to do it <hes> between the install the materials and and and obviously the appliances that was like the major expense that we did for that year so doing that work would only get me a credit of roughly eighteen hundred dollars based on the math for this for this tax credit which whatever i mean eighteen hundred dollars on a ten thousand dollar cost at least it helps hopes but just think how much more stuff i'd have to do to qualify for the full credit if you don't and you have to outlay that money i just because you don't get the tax credit until you file your tax return right. That's what i mean like if you're not a person that has you know six six months one year's worth of money sitting around for yourself. You're not gonna be able to do this. It's just not going to work so it's gonna be for the wealthy for the wealthy need bigger tax credit for what reason they're like the ability to read between the lines when i see policies coming out and what they actually mean not what they say they're going to mean is important. Severi something that politicians use oh well. We're trying to do this. I'm like nobody's going to do that right. So you have to know where to target. Your politicians and challenge consummate say listen. This isn't going to benefit me. This is a terrible tax credit. This is not going to work. You're going to reduce this. How so when you the go-to voting polls and you see oh well. They're trying to do something green. Are they really or are they trying to give tax credits and if they're touched her wealthy that means they're not giving them to you you if you're not wealthy green patent credit. This is a problem that i have with language from any party. There was a big uproar for two years ago in regards to potential changes to the small business tax rate. A lot of people got up in our oh. You're going to increase the the small business tax rate and we're gonna pay more taxes. It's a problem with language okay so the green patent credit mentions that it will you know it would reduce the business tax rate from fifteen percent to five percent on income generated from green technology. You have to understand what the government means by small or by. I business tax rate or small business tax rate. They are only talking about corporations. This doesn't affect someone who runs their business as a sole proprietorship. Okay okay or as a partnership. This is a tax credit for corporations big and small. It's it's it's all it's all about language and i wish government in jena role was more specific with this language because people end up getting upset about something that has no effect on them. I i've i've said before that the government has a revenue revenue problem so the the downside to reducing taxes is okay so the government's going to bring in less revenue. Are they going to make up for the fact that they're going to bring in less revenue because of this tax tax cut. I'm i'm all for innovation in in green technology. I'm all for innovation in pretty much any technology but how what does the government do to make up for the fact that in these situations it's going to make less revenue. It either has to make more revenue somewhere else or it has to cut somewhere else and there's there's really there's really no discussion the document at all about cuts a green tech innovation fund so this is <hes> the <hes> the conservatives are going to leverage private capital so the government puts in roughly two hundred and fifty million dollars into this fund provided that from private venture capitalists or whatever they receive four times that money from private money and it's a fund that i guess people that are that are developing green technology could borrow from to our again r._n._d. The adoption of new technologies starting to sell it and the idea is that the people that invest into that fund can would then get paid back by the people that borrow the money from i'm the fund with <hes> inherent gains again. It's something that while having having the money available is good and it's going to and it could certainly benefit the businesses that are developing the qualified technologies. I'd be worried that it would end up benefiting the investors more than it would benefit businesses that are creating the technologies because it's all about. It's not another toxic right now. It's it's it is another way for for people that have lots of money to be able to invest and businesses to be able to invest into into something that is you know hopefully in there is is gonna make the money um which again i'm not against people making money but the only businesses that are going to be able to invest in this. There's our businesses that already have billions of dollars right right like it's it's a tax haven. I don't have problems with people trying to grow money through investments but but call it what it is right. It's a gross stock or growth bond. I guess supporting agriculture so again. That's a really small section but the problem i have with these supporting writing in eric culture is that it talks about the fact that the carbon tax has created an increased cost on agriculture never mind the fact that there are forms that farmers can fill out and provide the vendors that they buy their fuel or their natural or their natural gas from a form that they can provide to those vendors so that they're exempt from the few from the carbon tax ax from fuel. They're buying. He's leveraging his his attitude is that he's gonna make them pay like his other solution. The forty kilotonnes the carpet. What is he calling it but it's not i. I don't think it really hasn't came percents pulling it. They're calling it. No there isn't a name to green investments standards. I guess that's the name so sandra under shears carbon tax. I'm just going to call that. I really hope the other parties do zach same because that's what it is. I mean you're just not calling tax because it doesn't go the government but you're forcing people all to vest house another tax. You're just cutting out the government allocation aspect of it find. Your tax is still a tax like you're still making making people pay money for so you're doing nothing. You're still targeting this people like if they go over certain amount they're still getting hit and they're wild and if they're not getting their wallet and they're able to relocate the funds and still make money off of it. Investments then you do nothing because i guess if they they make money off of it then technically the government could recoup tax money in that sense right like if the investment is profitable than the government's gonna make some tax money off of that fat but there's there's and it could obviously it could be that you know this is a this is not a legislation. This is a platform document so you can't put in a you can't put it in all the specifics to say that you know the investment has to be legitimate or or has to show that there's a reasonable expectation of the prophet or or something of that nature right like again the investments technically could coin into businesses that are just constantly doing research and development and are designed to lose money but he's he's got a taxi just relabeling tax greening the grid so improving the electrical grid in remote communities so again that could be a good thing that could go back to like what we're we've talked about in regards to wind turbines or solar panels just doing something where in these remote communities where they're still using diesel diesel generators right so again. That's a good thing. This is what i'm saying. This is what i'm saying that it's it's not. This isn't a terrible document. It's just there. There are parts of it that are you have to scratch your head about this again. This is one of those things that i'm like yeah what makes sense but but then the improvements to the electrical go grid is good. They talked about nuclear energy and and kind of mentioned the fact that yet there's there's newer technologies that nuclear as it is is technically cynically a green or a clean energy <hes> solution the concern. Obviously people have is the waste that generates well. We're still using one very old nuclear technology and the technologies that have been developed even in the last twenty thirty years are so much cleaner than dan what we currently use you know at the bruce plant and the darlington plant <hes> an and at other nuclear plants around the world and and nobody wants to spend the money to build these cleaner technologies because there's enough people out there that are anti-nuclear and feel like well. It's really not going to be cleaner. It's not gonna produce less way less waste. I and we have a problem with the waste as it is already. It's not the solution but it's part of the solution anyway so let's talk about nuclear energy and improving the grid but then talk about you know we're going to do what we can to make sure that the cost of electricity doesn't go up. They can do that like the solar panels and solar energy like those are solutions that can can reduce the cost. It's just are they. Are they actually willing to do it. Cause i don't. I don't think they are because if they continue on with coal. Your prices are go up. The reality is if you continue with coal fire plant. Your price of energy will go up. It's just we are using more and more trinity. <hes> in the house holds all the time. We're more dependent electricity every day. You're and as a result the prices go up unless you find something. That's cheaper like you and people are going to have to make a choice like are you. Do you want that hill with the wind turbine on it. Are you gonna pay more permanent month some people in the area of like will i don't want that well. You know something then pay pay more for hydro like pay more for hydro you wanted to be you want me to reduce my my bill and you're gonna put a winter my in my backyard okay yeah. I'm good with that. The people you know what the painl- the wind turbines built on their on their land. They don't have a problem with it because they're getting money every year for having that turbine on their land. It's the people around that don't have the turbines on their land that are looking at that's an eyesore going on your land and then when you get the check in the mail you realize oh. It's actually not a bad idea. I think i think a lot of the people that complain about turbines would change their tune if they receive if the checks that that are handed to the people that actually have the turbines on their property. We're going to those people instead if they were receiving money. They'd be like oh okay. Well yeah. Put it on my property. That's okay. I don't get the winter argument. I never have like what are you. It's no different than power lines wind turbines cancer. Is that an actual thing. He's trump said that at a rally out pinal cambridge no no but that's not an actual thing. I'm just i said it as a joke. There's actually like a push for that. Oh yeah and there's obviously there's people that now believe that winter bites caused cancer fans that they have to have you heard about that. In korea was that fans can only run for so long automatic shut off because he didn't know about this. I think so so south korea manufacturer of fans have have to have an automatic shut off after a certain time and i don't know how many hours it is because they're afraid it's gonna use up all the oxygen. Oh yes okay all right since you mentioned the oxygen thing. I'm like i do remember. This and it's like who believes that who's living so that's what's going to happen. It's a law it's korea. It's not like the manufacturers i have to do this. I i yeah i remember. I heard about that one. I can't remember how many years ago but it's like. It's just one of those things that you hear it and you think that's stupid and then you forget about right right like you're really you're is at this like this is just absurd. Yeah yeah so every once in a while you get these crazy theories and you're like oh well yeah because the fan of spending the it but it's not taking oxygen out of the air. It's just moving it. I don't wanna. I don't even want to dig into it right now. Anyway wildfire early early detection improving early detection of wildfires so that that that's a that's a technological thing <hes> but they're very vague on that one obviously early again great idea we need we need earlier detection of wildfires so because you especially look at the frequency and the size of the wildfires that are burning in this country and other than the fact that we have winter feel like they would be burning year round like in california yeah early detection would be great. I feel like that's one of those departments. That's probably underfunded as it is. Oh for sure you know minister whether it's ministry of the environment whether it's environment and climate change in canada they don't have the budget. They need to be able to maintain what they're doing. Let alone improve on what they're doing. We're gonna we're going to run long. Buckle up a cleaner and greener natural environment strategy for invasive invasive species vague. You have to have one like it's nothing new right exactly this. It is using don't successive governments have been talking about over and over and over and over and over still don't do things don't do what would make logical sense. Ask an expert like don't introduce another species to combat another species because you're just gonna make that other species just run rampant right exactly we've experienced that how many times now like i can't even count anymore. I remember when it was asian carp. They brought in the asian carp because of the zebra mussels. Yeah that's right. We have the problem zebra mussel so they brought in the asian carpenter the asian carp per breeding like crazy and they're eating all the other fish and stuff like that and then they don't care with zero muscles like well. Why would we that this teacher knew exactly right and zebra mussels an aside no here zebra mussels aren't as bad as is but people say they were like zebras are paying the but for anyone who has boat or any way that swims or the zebra mussel because it cuts your feet however cleanup lakes yes big time yes right yeah i remember swimming in lake ontario back in the eighties and you can see anything and now you go to lake ontario and you can actually see down so yes zebra mussels in phase species. She's they cause all kinds of problems. Sometimes our benefits and the asian carp was not a solution stop bringing in other species to solve all of problems and that's the difference between doing what you think is smart and asking expert. You always need to ask an expert or several wetlands so completion of the canadian canadian wetland inventory. That's a good thing knowing where all the wetlands are. That's that's fine again. This is one of those comments second anger a lot of people. It's like like the gun registry. Oh how do not give. I know there's a lot of people that there's a lot of <hes> very staunch will call them. Peter like people that believe all animals shouldn't be hunted and everything like that fine urine that extreme if you want to have wetlands if you want to have environments for species let them be hunted. Let them be fished at. I can guarantee those people that like to do that will make sure the third round you don't let them and developments were run over yeah exactly that's kind of what this <hes> wetland inventories about which is a program. That's already in effect so they're basically just saying we're going to complete it so it's like okay so carry on and what previous governments have been doing with less wetlands comes more flooding and comes a redu reduction in ecosystem and habitat for animals comes a reduction in the animals that we have around you know obviously then wetlands are a carbon sink. We lose wetlands. We lose that carbon sink okay so that means more more carbon emissions in the atmosphere protecting waterways. This one led me to some additional research. One of the things that they mentioned is dumping of raw sewage okay so dumping raw sewage into waterways which is terrible. Okay is i am not going to deny that it's terrible but the one thing in particular that they mentioned in this section of the document is about the <hes> the sewage dumped in twenty fifteen by the city of montreal. This document essentially blames it all on the liberals it solidified solidify more involved than that the dumping of the sewage. It was eight billion liters of raw sewage into the saint lawrence waterway. This happened like i said late two thousand fifteen because there there were <hes> there were certain improvements to you know the sewage and wastewater system that the city of montreal needed to do and to do that they had to purge the the sewage and wastewater system well the only way that they can purge it in an effective manner in the timeframe that they had to do the improvements is to dump it into the river which sucks and it's all relative so if you just throw billions and trillions and gazillions in jillions and things like that it's not a reliable number so how much of impacted that raw sewage had how much of an impact will the improvement half because they're not the same argument and this is where the details matter. Here's the details or some of the details at least because because <hes> after it happened the government did <hes> have a commission through the environment and climate change candidate and there's documents that you can find on the government the government of canada website that goes through essentially kind of from from the start to the finish about this whole sewage dumped situation first of all the city of montreal had already applied for approval and received authorization to dump the sewage into the saint lawrence in in february of twenty th two thousand fifteen whose prime minister in february of two thousand fifteen <hes> harper. You are correct what part of steven harper with <hes> with conservative party right okay so the other is to dump the sewage happened before the liberals were elected the city had also emailed the ministry so environment environment client environment and climate change canada or as it was called back then just environment canada in september two thousand fourteen and september two thousand fifteen who was prime administered in september two thousand fourteen september twenty fifteen are and what party was he from all right. The city claims city montreal claims it did not receive the necessary necessary information from environment canada concerning <hes> the wastewater systems effluent regulations since two thousand thirteen before the point that they he dumped sewage who was prime minister in two thousand thirteen harbor. What party was he from conservative. The liberals did pass. I guess the final vinyl authorization for the dumping of the sewage into the saint lawrence river but authorization had already been approved by the conservatives before the election the reason why the city of montreal chose not to dump the sewage louis until november of two thousand fifteen was so that it would have the least negative effect on the marine life in the river because at that time of year there are less fish and whales and things of that nature in that section of the river yeah. There's a pass breeding season and things like that from what i remember of being angler myself yet. That makes sense you you can. I guess technically blame both parties for the fact that the sewage was dumped but it's disingenuous to say that it's all the liberals fault which is clearly highlighted to yes. It's very much highlighted in the document. That is the liberals that told them they could dump the sewage. No no it's not the the evidence is there that it wasn't just the liberals. It's just that the liberals gave the final final final approval many things car six approval ratings to just get one thing brought through and often the that's the details right establish one hundred angler advisory panel lobbyists now you don't think so because hunters and anglers. They're not big business. I like the individuals aren't but there are under there are underlying businesses that could be big business that are involved left with hunters and anglers like because technically technically hunters and anglers could include <hes> companies like for harvesters in north bay or it could include fisheries and we know that the fisheries are obviously large businesses like that's that's kind of the part where i say that this advisory panel could potentially be lobbyists guests it could it could be but you don't wanna exclude them and the reason why you don't exclude them is because that's how the gun registry past because they didn't didn't include it right. Okay you have if you including them in the advisor panel. It doesn't mean that they're one is running and i don't know the then the devils and the right right so so they should be involved because if you just get some yokel trying to like a politician whose job it is to make things look good trying to pass laws that are implemented implemented like the united states had this law where sense that if a endangered species animal habitat was on your land. You can't can't use that land or that area around land right. Okay yep yep. That's looks really good now. A farmer finds a bald eagle nesting in his tree and he can't use that land that bald eagles going to disappear in a big her before before the local well <hes> authorities find out that it's their brain. That's the problem with not having people that are actually going to be impacted of the rules on committee so i agree with it. If it's somebody who's not a farming right okay yes yeah yeah. I don't want somebody from remington doing it. You don't want that person there. You want. The guy who runs his local fishery. The guy who is in charge of the game wardens game wardens the best yeah. Those are the guys on the visor community because they know they know what's going on so so i guess my my point is that it can be a mixed advisory three panel yes but i would be concerned that it would become a panel of lobbyists because i point to. We're going to bring it up again. The food guide situation in where now andrew shears talking about changing the food guide because he's basically being told by the dairy and the beef lobby that hey we're not bad. We need to be added back in there because the liberals rose didn't listen to a psych. No it's not that the liberals didn't listen to the liberals have been the ones that introduced the new canada food guide but they're not the ones that created it but i don't want. I don't think that the dairy dairy farmers should be having have anything to do with food guide. No it should be the doctors dietitians. Dieticians people people like that yeah you need to be that those are the people so when they say hunters and anglers. They're not they're not asking for. They're not trying to get the gun. They're not the weapons manufacturers right or the bass pro shops to come in on their behalf right. Okay so that's that's where i point to that and say you know what as long as it's as long as it's not dominated by big business does right there. That's fine yeah. Doesn't that's fine. That's that's what i'm worried about actions on plastics and waste so document says the liberals have done nothing on this now. I believe this document came out before the announcement of the single use plastics ban and then obviously we got the sound clip hip about the water box bottled drinking type thing and then the conservative supporters and such that came out and record themselves drinking water out of a cardboard box as though that's what what he was talking about the single use plastic ban is something that s- is very effective as far as a political platform affect useless right like. Are you going to tell me that. My one straw is breaking the camel's back like it's not if you look at drawdown down yeah single use plastics on their anywhere recycling isn't on their targeting. Those kinds of plastics isn't the problem with carbon. Emissions is a problem for the the environment yes but it's not i don't know how much of a problem at actually is ripe. Packaging is way more of a problem than me using my plastic strong well aw i think i think that there including that in the single use plastic though like the problem is like what would you replace it with. I think the idea might be. Let's say if you go get a bottle of coke from from in the store right right now comes in a plastic bottle so the idea is you could replace that and go back to the glass bottles that we used to have in like the sixties seventies in eighty s or whatever and some some companies do like the limited edition release. Hey look it's the small coke bottle well. Yes you could release the five hundred ninety one milliliter version of the coke glass bottle as well. I think that's what they're hoping but whether that's what happens is another question so so protecting our oceans. It's this is like the conservative talk back against bill c forty eight where the where the you know the coastline in north of vancouver island you know the oil tankers above a certain size are no longer allowed in there because of the passing ability forty eight there the language in this is basically basically like we're going to consult the communities and and people that live along the coast lines to determine what the best solution is figure out the solution whatever you think might. I don't know i mean i like. I don't know what my opinion on it is. That's the problem i feel. I felt like bill c forty eight wasn't a big deal and obviously there's a lot of people out there that are like there's a big deal the problem for me because i don't live in b._c. And i don't live on the coast of b._c. That it doesn't affect affect me and so i look at it and think what's the big deal and there are people that will tell me well. Here's what the big deal is and i'm if you wanna educate me on it and you know make me having having more of an opinion on it that's fine but right now it just it has next to no effect on me taking the climate change fight global so this is the last major section one of this document so <hes> talks about utilizing article six of the of the paris agreement so what's that i had to look it up and so- article six is is cooperation between parties so it's sharing nationally determined contributions towards emission reduction so essentially as as i understood it from reading it on wikipedia because we compete is awesome and anybody that's like wikipedia is not a source wikipedia is full of cited sources so <unk> pedia can be used as is a source because you can point to the source that they got the information from even though it can be edited and there are people out there that intentionally do mischievous things even though well they can edit things like that if you can go and look at the reference part because there's a part on wikipedia articles references you can use that as a guy to go and verify the way that i read the description of articles six kind of loosely makes it sound like a cap and trade system to me because the idea is. Let's say canada does something within its mandate that we've put out for the for the paris agreement where we're going to reduce our carbon emissions ends to thirty percent below two thousand five levels by twenty thirty the way that i understand article six is that if we go if we do better than that we can use article six wchs to quote unquote transfer the additional reductions that we've put in place to another country and so then it's it's like carbon credits where they can use the credit of the fact that we've done better than we said we were going to do to help out another country or countries that are having troubles us meeting their obligations in the paris agreement which is helpful i point i point to it and say it seems like cap and trade because at least based on what happened in ontario with the cancellation of the cap and trade program that we were in with quebec california even though you know the the similar political parties have communication with each other this is kind of one of those situations where one one side is saying no one's about idea and the other side of saying well hold on a second we still use it still sounds like it could work and now this is using from a framework agreement that was agreed on by one hundred ninety four nations in the world so this isn't just a local. You know canadian thing. I don't know i just like we're cancelling local cap and trade but we're saying that global cap and trade is still fine. Yeah you know if you want people to bye bye system. You have to lead right like there are countries out there that are starting to have centralized heating systems. That's a fantastic way to reduce cost a fantastic way to reduce carbon emissions because i an air conditioner for instance in your window as opposed to <music> a geothermal plant in the middle of town air conditioners are gonna use way more whereas if you have a geothermal plant in middletown you can just regulate the temperature for everybody and then just charge it just like they start with electricity gas. It's just a commodity and then it's cheaper. She preferred body because rather than spending electricity which is terrible and literacy z. to you have a geothermal plant. It's cheaper so it works. The problem is the cost up front and that's that's thing but that's how you can reduce costs as far as and then they're doing it in denmark places like that well and you have to think like if they if if they weren't doing something like that the cost to heat you know a large portrait. Let's say a place like well denmark. I guess not so much but <hes> let's say norway or sweden or or countries that you know were a chunk of their population lives above above the arctic circle. They spend a lot of money on heating so if you can provide a solution that will again. There's going to be that immediate front cost but overall. It's it's gonna cost less over time and it's going to improve the environment. That's the thing that and i hope i'm not very likely. I hope that it green initiatives are the way that that's we'll go i just i don't see anything in here saying anything about that. The last thing i want to cover has to do with <hes> <hes> exporting liquefied natural gas to help replace coal. I'm positive and negative on this so i'm positive on it because liquefied natural gas does burn and cleaner than coal does and is more energy efficient than coal is so in the sense of you know convey say a converting asian countries from using as much coal as they do for power generation and instead changing to natural gas. I can see where there is at least a reduction in the continued buildup of carbon emissions but it doesn't stop carbon emissions is it just slows them down trying to read all covered missions is unattainable goal however trying to reduce it any way shape or possible is a good the idea. I think the conservative party realizes that we have this we mazal use it and make some money off of it so let's push for however. You're gonna have to get the other countries countries that you're saying. We're not doing anything but can you reduce yours and then we'll sell you the product and then to go yeah that's fine. What are the one of the things that i that i can remember. I don't know if it was in the document or if it was just something that as i was researching other things i looked up is the fact that so you gotta use tankers obviously eight to get the natural gas from the b._b._c. Coast over to asia. A lot of tankers run on bunker fuel bunker fuel is extremely dirty extremely extremely dirty like some of the worst fuel in the world and so i'm like well does shipping the natural gas over to say china china for them to use it when you ha- when however many tanker ships are going to have to continuously be bringing the natural gas over to china to make sure that they can keep generating electricity chrissy. Is it going to be cleaner than just burning. The coal and i couldn't find any language <hes> to tell me whether that was the case or not however what i did find was i think it was twenty fifteen and it seems like it's tied into obviously the whole paris agreement situation but it's it's like international marine <hes> organization or something along those lines has has put in place part of part of the agreement of businesses and countries that operate in international waters is that they have to you either convert their ships from bunker fuel to natural gas or do something to reduce the carbon emissions from the ships by twenty twenty and then i think there's like there's different tiers to it where you where they have to reduce their emissions by these certain levels and then the final tier is going to be in place by twenty twenty-five with a possible extension to twenty twenty-eight but the idea being that by twenty twenty five bunker fuel can't be used anymore the only way that they could potentially continue that ships could potentially continue to use bunker fuel is with <hes> exhaust scrubbers for carbon sequestration yet you wanna make it so cost costly that they won't want to do it and you want want to force the hand. I'm mixed on this one because i know that liquefied natural gas is cleaner than coal and yeah it would make sense that we should try and we we need to replace the burning of coal with something i if changing liquid natural gas is a step towards something better again where it's as carbon neutral or or or zero emissions admissions as possible. I'm okay with the fact that we have to take that step. You know because you're not going to go from burning bunker fuel to batteries no. There's a there's a step in between so at least we're going to that and that's i'm okay with that whichever way it would make cleaner i mean without looking at that document. I don't know how much cleaner than it is but as far as from canadians perspective. We should definitely be willing to do that. We have the pipeline. Let's use it the expand it but let's use it like spending. It's not that's not a good strategy because like natural gas is not a solution. It's abandoned but we make money off it so let's make the money yeah <hes> like until you don't wanna harm the economy with solutions solutions but i think we have to realize that there's there's going to be harmed that comes out of any change. The i find there's massive holes with interferes. <hes> introduced carbon tax. I'm calling like it's all right. Andrew shears carbon-tax. He can nkala whatever he wants to. The only the only reason it's not technically attacks is because the government's not involved but the government is involved because the government may not be collecting the funds but they're telling them where to put the funds. Okay what's the difference yes exactly. They're the ones that are coming up with the certifications. They're the ones that are coming up with the regulations. They're the ones that are coming up with the other tax credits and where is that money coming from that's the other thing too like all the stuff that he's trying to implement that money has to come from somewhere and he's not getting it from carbon tax no. Where's it coming from no because they're because because their plan would be to repeal the the carbon tax was introduced by the liberals so right but you're you're playing. It's going to cost more money and it's going to have the same relative impact and that's what economists have said so far about this plan. It's not like a hundred hundred of the economists are saying. Let's let's. Let's put that they're at least but there are there are economic studies that have already been done on this plan stating that it's more likely going to cost more money than what the carbon tax will again. Things are going to cost money but it should also inefficiently cost money since its policy platform. There's too much information in it that is vague to be able to say oh. This is exactly how it's going to work and yeah i get the idea like i mean the as as a person is putting a policy. It's difficult to put in and i'm not i'm not criticizing his platform from the standpoint of you're not giving me details. That's fine right this. This had more details than it than the ontario p._c. Party's election platform in two thousand eighteen. This is only one leg of their election platform so i'm actually this is a positive thing for me is that i'm actually expecting a platform from the from the federal conservatives the election. We'll know what they should do is just two months before the election fire the person in charge and then replace them somebody else. I'm talking about 'perfect genius genius. It's it's fantastic way to get elected then. They can't challenge you anything. What are you. What are your plans well. We're gonna work on it see. He doesn't have any plans well. It's great that means. He's got wide open mind. Okay that worked out well for us. Yes this has been the conservative climate change plan from putin politics. My name's adam my name's. Mike have day everyone. Thanks thanks for listening to putin politics sure to keep up with online and through social media. Our website is putin politics dot c._a. You can find us on facebook at putin politics. You can find this on instagram <unk> at putin politics. You can find us on twitter at politics putin because twitter thought we were french. We are on youtube. We've also started a patriot page at patriotic p._a._t. A._t. r. e. n. Dot com slash putin politics. We hope we've entertain you enough that you can show us. Some love will be back next week with another episode.
September 5: Torn apart
"<music> what might we discover if we make more time to listen with an audible membership you get to choose one book every month from the world's largest selection of audiobooks folks and have access to bestsellers exclusive audio shows and audible originals automatically roll over up to five months of audiobook credits if you don't use use them if you don't like a book just swap it for free download the audible app now to start listening and get your first book free with membership. This is a c._b._c. podcast hello. I'm carol off good evening. I'm chris hayden. This is as it happens the podcast edition tonight i torn apart as hurricane doreen hits the atlantic coast. The scale of destruction in the bahamas is starting to emerge our guest lost her aunt and the family home to this storm swift justice while babysitting and edmonton woman named justice taylor discovered two girls confined to the basement and thanks to her two women and have pleaded guilty in the shocking case the long road ahead ion toronto man and his family are keeping a vigil by stretch of street for his sister was killed. It didn't hit and run a trying to reach a bus. Stop between two crosswalks nearly a full kilometer apart truth to power former m._v._p. Leader ed broadbent remember remember the fearless honesty of his friend and fellow progressive the prolific canadian historian desmond morton. If you're out there give us a sign. The giant toronto santos sign in the city's downtown is going to be replaced and the city of arno ontario spout lake toronto without the teas with like i'm five seven seven and achilles heel after exhaustive d._n._a. Testing of the waters of loch ness our guest found no evidence of a dinosaur or a multi he headed zombie dragon but plenty of evidence of ills as it happens the thursday edition radio that figures there could be eels and monster. You know like take a combination lock today. Hurricane doreen continued its rampage making its way up the eastern coast of the united states. It's been downgraded to a category two hurricane but during his still expected to do serious damage in north and south carolina where storm surge waters could reach up to two and a half meters or eight feet atlantic canada is also bracing for the storm which is anticipated to hit their over the weekend in the bahamas. The extent of dory's destruction is beginning to emerge at least twenty people have been killed among the victims is irene saunders who was with her family and freeport when the storm hit raquel cartwright heart rate is her niece. We reached cartwright in london ontario cal. I'm very sorry for your loss. Thank you what is is your understanding of what happened when did they. I realize they were really in trouble in that house. <hes> i cannot not be certain when they figured out they were in trouble. <hes> this is a story that i was told by my family that once the water started rising they started going on top or like the tables the countertops things like that and then when the water started getting too high that they couldn't stand on the table tops. They moved up to the ceiling area of their house <hes> because they don't have a two storey house. It's only a one story house and they went up into the crawlspace of the ceiling and from there. They just dug a hole in the in the roof so they can go on top of the house but the water was surging so much. That's all they had. I'm trying to do that and so once. They got out of the house. They were in the middle of a hurricane outside. That's right how many people were with them. <hes> it was my aunt who passed away my uncle her husband her daughter rosalind and her children and so they're all in the roof at this point in this blowing hurricane. What what what did they do from there. As far as what you've you've learned well from the understanding that i have i was putting up the children on the roof and even the water is kind of you know coming to the roof level. Oh so <hes> roslyn put her mother and her father up and then she they helped her up and the wind was just blowing blowing blowing and then just blew them all off of the roof of the house. So there was a tree. I don't think it was close by but close enough for all of them to swim two ooh and tied themselves to the tree. How old are the children. The little girl is twelve and the little boy is i. I believe he's fourteen. He'll be fifteen in the middle of this blowing hurricane. They were able to lash themselves to a tree at at least what what happened after that well after that they had been in the water for almost two days screaming for help <hes> from what i understood there was people trying to come into the area to see if they could find anybody but they had to turn back so so there was in the water and <hes> my aunt. She just couldn't hold on anymore. What happened <hes>. She ended up rounding sincerely drowning in front of her family. I'm just thinking like what if it was all of them. <hes> <hes> you know that's the hardest part but she was like the cornerstone of her family for all of us. You know like she would never say that. I'm her niece. She would say that's my daughter. She always had an open house. Always had food cooking cooking on the stove. You know for whoever needed it. She was always helpful and bright person. In our lives you you know so. It's really devastating for family to lose her and the way we did so sorry. How old was she. She was seventy seven and she was with her husband. He was there yong-chol yeah. He never so everyone else survived. Everyone else survived. Thank god but they were there day and night. It was for during the night as well. I guess that's that's right what a nightmare and and so how would they finally rescued the rest of them. One of their children's vario <music> saunders he was able to borrow a boat and went out looking for them <hes> because the waters were so high but you need somebody that knows the area you know and that can navigate through the debris and everything like that so by the time he reached them there was exhausted. You know literally exhausted and so they were able to get everybody into the boat and also also your aunt irene. There was nowhere to put her at first because <hes> the ram salih hospital <hes> was was under water also they had a lot of flooding and the funeral parlours. They didn't have their generators going or anything because everything is underwater so so they had to stay with her body for at least a days in how's everybody else at this point <hes> they're hanging in there. Yeah i just spoke to my other cousin. That's in freeport and she was telling me that. They're running out of supplies. <hes> there's no electricity luxuriating. There's no clean water. My aunt's family has lost everything <hes> so you know i've have just been trying to gather supplies and whatever they need because it's there's nothing coming in right now. There's nothing they have nothing to go back to after having survived all of that and having seen your aunt irene pass away like that now the situation is at once the water is gone down. They have no home to return to laugh at right. There's nothing to go back to. How do we go. Does it for you to be in canada to be unin -tario and and not able to be with them and helps them. Oh i feel so guilty. I know there's nothing that i could have done even if i was there ear but i should be there helping them. What can you do to help them now well right now. I'm just gathering information. Soon and supplies people have reached out to me. They offend their condolences and asking how they can assist so i really appreciate that of course a lot of people just want to send my family personal things like clothes and shoes and you know medical supplies and things like that so you know that's greatly appreciated locale. Please pass on to your family. Our condolences and i appreciate you telling us the story story and getting the word out there that these people need help. Thank you so much. Raquel cartwright is the niece of irene saunders who died died in freeport when hurricane doreen hit the bahamas. We reached miss cartwright in london ontario. At least twenty people in the bahamas died during dorian including canadian alicia ontario <music> her family says celeste jones jones loved books movies and tv and that she was a nervous driver who often took public transit rather than get behind the wheel on friday so let's jones was killed crossing a busy stretch of road to reach a bus stop near toronto home. The driver did not stop and has not been identified in the days since celeste family has been keeping vigil near that same stretch of road last night. They were joined by toronto mayor john tory and other members of the community and tonight. They're headed back to the scene where they say they'll continue to wait. Wait for answers and for solutions to the problem of pedestrian deaths. Clay jones is celeste brother. We reached him in toronto. Does your family. They have any idea what happened to your sister that night. At this current moment we have no idea we are still trying to put the picture together <hes> <hes>. We don't have <hes> much information. The toronto police services is working around the clock to <hes> investigate and get more information for us but as of the current moment no. We have gotten minimum minimum details. I wish she crossing that that road. She was crossing as her routine would be to go to work. <hes> she works about twenty minutes away <hes> using the toronto transit and in god that was just so normal route one bus across the work for people who don't know that stretch of of sheppard avenue. Can you describe where this happened. So worth incident took place was between warden and pharmacy on sheppard avenue east exactly exactly in the middle i would say in between that stretch and that stretches about a kilometer long without any weird across the street but shepherd <unk>. There's a lot of traffic on shepard. It's really busy and and they're in cars are disputing it down that that strip. That's that's the thing like we don't really realize these things until you take the time to really slow down and just just look and the last over the week <hes> you know when we just been there every day and just so you know paying <hes> paying respect to seles every day just waiting by the tree hoping can you know we can get more information people to come out and maybe they seen something but we're seeing and witnessing how fast cars moods it's it's. It's crazy to see this. This wasn't planned for modern day. This was planned many many years ago. I can tell this. This roadway was planned when possibly cars were an ongoing zero to a hundred kilometers when it's usually took ten seconds cars. These days are going zero two hundred three two three two four four seconds so this this roadway is was built longtime ago. You mentioned how you and your father have been keeping a vigil at the site. <hes> where celeste rests with was hit by the car. You've been there in the evenings. <hes> what are you hoping to achieve what we hope to achieve is not just awareness of a loss of seles. It's it's the weirdness that lives matter people matter if we can change one soul out there and to see to do the right thing you know that is something that for us is is is it. It is something that not uniform seles is justice is just just to save another life is justice. This is more than celeste celeste. Now on this is what's left would want so we are actively out there just for trying to pursue justice and also pursue pursue change. We're looking for an answer that will also shed light on how to make these road conditions better it. That's the justices to justice celeste for city toronto. It's just for everyone at this point but we know that so many pedestrians killed in toronto. I mean forty. Pedestrians wins killed this last year in this city. Are you making any progress. Do you think that there's an awareness of how dangerous it is for. Pedestrians on city streets not just in toronto but other big cities. I feel that we are making strides. I feel that people are listening and with that knowledge <hes> it can change people it. It's it's. It's something that i i as are found elsie. Our family really truly believes that everyone is good. Everyone has that good in them and i mean me with the with the we all we all do make mistakes but with that that knowledge that we're trying to share that you know maybe maybe for a second of all there's lives out there when you're when you're trying to race down the street and not taking consideration why there's a sixty sixty kilometers speed limit take into consideration that lives are out there you conscious launches be aware i think people are saying that message very deeply and seeing that <hes> maybe we can do something different. Meanwhile there's somebody <music> out there. Who killed your sister yeah. How difficult is that for you and your family to realize that that driver who who who did that his is unidentified well. That's something that leaves. My family not only speechless elise. It was my family with with with loss thoughts where like lost souls right now and the magnitude that i described <hes> my sister death breath as i describe it with <hes> that it's murder <hes> she was killed and <hes> it doesn't sit right with us. It's something where every life is precious out here. I'll i'll take it back to where i said. We all make mistakes. I've made mistakes in my life. Uh-huh accountability helps to take away the malice in those mistakes being able to apologize being able to be aware. We don't make those same mistakes. That's our first step to healing <hes> so i can only hope that the drivers out there. He's probably really afraid he's is probably hurting to in his way and i hope that they can see that there is no shame in coming it is no there is no shame in being accountable so i just feel that he'll see what's going on. He'll be aware of what's going on he or she and know that it's it's there. There will be light at the end of the tunnel wendy be able to see that coming forward will will heal will heal the situation. I hope that message goes out clay. I'm i'm so sorry for your loss. Please pass assan our condolences to your family. Thank you bye-bye we reached clay jones in toronto. His sister celeste was killed killed by a driver on friday evening. <music> <music> weeklong stakeouts sonar readings satellite-tracking despite these and other efforts by some scientists send many more people who are definitely not scientists. There's still no proof of the existence of the loch ness monster but one scientist saw that we hadn't exhausted exhausted all avenues for example the most exhaustive one professor neil gemmell from new zealand global team of researchers did d._n._a. Testing on hundreds of water samples from loch ness cataloging the creatures that live in its murky waters and today he revealed a new theory that puts a very different face on the elusive nessie. We reached professor gimmel on in drum druk scotland visa game. Have you come any closer to solving the mystery. The loch walking yes monster so certainly got new evidence that tells us some of the theories that put forward to explain the most the most of missing lists lightly than others so we've done. I've very comprehensive survey of locked the issues the environment would be an eye so we don't need to catch capture orsi creatures. We just need to be able to get water samples that have been in close proximity to those organisms to collect small particles the shit that we can then kalinka concentrate and sequence and compared to what species the prison okay so you even trying to find find out all the different species and animals that have had some contact with with loch ness. What is the one that you think is most likely to perhaps explain aimed. Sightings people have had over the years but the prevailing wisdom <hes> wasn't there before key hypotheses. We kissed each one of us so there's <hes> the the funniest extinct john creature here. Maybe a joint marine reptile we find you know sequences. The match with that sort of organism victory don't even twenty billion c._n._i. N._f._l. So that's not something we have any strong evidence for and we're taste the number of large fish catch catfish sturgeon. They didn't find the evidence of that but we did funded awful lot of d._n._a. From ills now one of the ideas that have been put forward rock from the nineteen thirties was the luck this month to month be some form of john brought to you or at least some of the things certainly explained that way. It's still a long stretch to say from. Ill denied it was going to join you but <hes> it's a lot more aw compelling some of the other evidence being put forward. Do you have any idea how big yields can actually get. I mean what if it is a giant ill. How big might it be so european. Neal is normally maybe four po possibly even up to six feet and link some of the witness reports here are creatures that are twelve fourteen. Maybe the twenty five feet late now. I don't think there's ever been caught long so i guess there isn't a lot of direct dividends to support this nation so it's something we can't move out completely. Are there any eels anywhere in the world that may have migrated in found themselves but just by happenstance get into the stream and end up in unluck nece. I don't think we've got to have been ill from other places or vice of species turn up in all sorts of possible for example canadian think salmon currently inviting lock these species camping around the biggest freshwater eels that i've actually come from zeal it so we have the species alone for deal they can grow to at six right seater leads and they can be as thick of a man's league so i quite large and i could live fifty to a hundred origins there are of course this goes back. Many years isn't it may be fifteen hundred years when people thought they there was a beast in the river ness but this idea since the nineteen thirties has had got currency because people claim to have photos that proved to be not real there were hoaxes hoaxes all kinds of things how big is the idea that there is a monster in loch ness because you're over there. What do people say about this. Yes so there are people apu who i believe in you know they have very strong views on the presence of the monster. There are some who adamant there are some form of of lodge mysterious obvious retaliation talk creature and it's more than a thousand people who have documented seeing them on stuff and in fact in the last year alone just about fourteen account so there there is a very strong group of leaders <hes> there's also relatively strong group of skeptic smartest in the store think most of the explained by phenomenon saddam opened c._e._o. Idea that maybe things that we don't yet understand and so that's why we do this but you know we're all side documenting the diversity of lock and a new wipe why providing a lot of dinosaur or species i hear what other things here fundamentalist songs project but just happens to have very attractive piece of bikes which is the most the kitchen among the many explanations people have offered over the years is that there is one theory that it might be swimming. Circus elephants have escaped from the circus. Inverness may have found their way in there. Did you find you know elephant d._n._a. <hes> it's not elephant. Deny i mean that's sketch sick elephants and doing a lot of good hearts for a long time. I mean another one of my favorites. <hes> explanations got this letter from a guy told me that it was a mounted commandos that <hes> were cameras on and it was a special correct course designed to deal with problems the middle east so i gotta say that one's well outside the realms of what we know this series of you heard this. There's some people who will say that. We've missed. They see because they see was on holiday. <hes> extraterrestrial sorry doesn't have d._n._a. Iffy of courses <hes> some sort of fantastical creatures some sort of magical original creature and so it doesn't deny or and this is <hes> getting into the realm of <hes> sort of stargate there is i subsequent all vice time and that is some sort of jurassic cretaceous age creature that just pops in and out of existence here every now and then now a given that how much imagination and invention has gone into this mythology around nessie. Do you think at some point that your science doesn't matter no matter what science he come. I'm not with this this mattress too much to ever have it. It's it's it's true even if it's not talk it's too big now for it to go away the only people who will believe the office mostly because i want to study that's come looking for the luckiest to his doctor for this to be able to such a great job at some point. You have to say okay. Maybe isn't what or the alternative is that at a very good applying heart but yeah people who want to believe most will and i think there's something an idea yeah and i bet like saas water questionnaire barbara through just interpreted. It's slightly unusual wise. I caught up like that. I uh-huh you that. We've got great to talk to you. Thank you thank you bye-bye neil. Gimmel is a geneticist from the university of otago in new zealand. We reached him in drummed rock. Scotland boris johnson has had a dreadful week and at a speech in northern england today it showed the u._k.'s prime minister was rambling incoherent aren't unprepared and wildly off topic flanked by a group of police recruits. He tried to crack jokes but they fell flat. He bounced from topic to topic whether it was brexit brexit brussels or labour leader jeremy corbyn and he was clearly rattled. He has good reason to be yesterday. His call for an early election was defeated in the house of commons comments. He also punted out twenty one of his tory colleagues for breaking ranks with the party on a key brexit vote and today joe johnson his own brother resigned zayn doesn't m._p. And minister here was the first question the prime minister faced from reporter today on people entitled to ask if your own brother come back. You'd why should anyone else and he's asking about my brother. Joe joe doesn't agree with me about the european union because it's a it's an issue that divides <hes> families in divides everybody. I think what joe would agree is we need to get on and so this thing out out and why they want joe certainly would agree and i think he <hes> he said as much the softer nude is that this government has exactly the right priorities when it comes to dealing dealing with the issues that really matter to the british people. I'm talking about making our streets safer. I'm talking about improving <hes> hospitals and improving our education service so i think joe for all the what he's done and for the support that he's given for <hes> domestic agenda. Can you make a promise today eight to the british public that you get back to brussels and ask for another delay brexit yes and and would you the ditch to give design fast prime minister. I've often go and ask for that delighted. I look i i really cost two billion pounds amman. It achieves absolutely nothing pink. What on earth is the point of a further delay. I think it's it's it's totally totally pointless u._k. Prime minister boris johnson speaking to reporters porter's today after a speech in northern england in edmonson courtroom this week to women pleaded guilty to a disturbing case of child abuse and they were only in court at all. Thanks to a twenty one year old babysitter two years ago justice justice taylor was at a home babysitting when she discovered two young girls ages three and six confined to a basement showing signs of abuse now the mother other of the two young girls and the mother's roommate have pleaded guilty to aggravated assault and unlawful confinement. We reach justice taylor in edmonton and a warning. The content of this interview is disturbing. Just as what does it mean for you that the two women have now pleaded guilty for their crimes against these these little girls <hes> it's a relief that they have admitted to what they've done because i have seen it firsthand and i'm. I'm just happy to know that they're in jail. They're going to be in jail hopefully for a while because i don't want girls to feel unsafe if their parents says get out. You were nineteen years old when you went to babysit at this home. What did you understand about where the children were. What instructions instill the their mothers give you <hes>. They had told me that. Two of the children were downstairs in the basement that they were in trouble. Well not let them up and that they should be sleeping and then before they had left. They moved address her in front of the door to the basement so they would not be able we'll get out the other. Three children. Were aware there were upstairs in their rooms. I had checked on them. They seem very well taken care of. They look like they had at bank before bed. They were seized pajamas. Everything was good with them but the two girls downstairs was completely different story. They told you that they were being punished. Understood put the dresser there. How did you respond to that wants to. The mothers had left <hes> as soon as they laughed. The oldest daughter had knocked on the the door to the basement and my first thought was that it was the kids. I thought it was the mom's coming back. They had forgotten something so i opened the front front door thinking that the moms had come back but they were there and then i heard the older daughter say justices that you and i was like yes. Are you awake until like yeah. Can we please come up. We're hungry now. They refer i moved the dresser and let them up and they sounded a little rattled it because i had babysat them maybe three months prior to this and they were such good girls that were so fun and full of light and they sounded founded lake scared kind of cyrus pretty quick tough move the dresser and see what was going on with them. And what condition were they in when you can that door the older girl had a big bruise on her neck but <hes> i later saw that her whole back and part of her but was bruised and we should warn our listeners again. We've already done. We'll do again this. All the details in the story are so disturbing and could you you see what the conditions were in the basement. Where were the girls being confined. When i had opened the door the first thing was out very strong smell of urine and and i noticed that they're predominantly soiled as well so i had changed them into clean pajama but the older girls injuries were very severe that was scared to touch church so the six year old three year old both had these these bruises and this this damage to their had been been hurt in this way you describing the younger girl had look like slash marks on the back of her legs and her teeth. It's were rod and lake broken. Were able to do for the girls. At that point. I had fed them a lot because they had told me that they weren't fed all day and was there at eleven p._m. So that's just outrageous that they wouldn't have eight entire day. The older girl she and i had a very good connection and she was telling me that she wanted me to take her with me when i left she's like can i live with you like i don't wanna on a. b. Here like i just wanna stay with. You and i just held her in my arms. I like stroked her hair. A wrestle lightly and i just was crying and we were describing gather because i was just felt so bad what you also took. Some pictures didn't you. Yes i had taken a video because i didn't know if the parents would try to tend to the injuries when they got home before the police had arrived at the evidence and you wanted to make sure no one <hes> that the that the women were confronted with this evidence yes. At what point did you call the police. I called the police had left our house because if i called the police prior to them coming home they could pull into the driveway and see police cars and then leave. I didn't want them to have a chance to be on the run. I wanted to make sure that they were in the house at the police went to them and they would be arrested but when the mother came home you did not tell them that you had rescued. The girls rose from the basement. Oh i texted them. When i first seen the child i told them i seen the kids. They're in horrible condition. What happened and the older girl had told me she fell through a sliding door at a birthday party but when i asked the mob she said that she fell down the stairs starting new for for something the foot because they had completely different stories. The police immediately went through the house and what happened is far as you know. <hes> i was is told that the little girl was in a box taped up with a carpet overtop. That really makes me upset because i i told the girls like you're gonna be ok. Nothing bad's going to happen to you and said they did that to them. Site guilty for even leaving them for that six minutes until the a police car there. What would you want to say to those girls if you could see them again. I want them to know i love them. I've so proud of that for being thanks so strong i wish nothing but success and happiness in life and for them to know that this trauma is only going to help you be a stronger a person a lot of people have gone through bad things in their life but you will overcome this and i just want them to know that they're going to be safe and they don't have to deal with. It's her any longer. I think you are an extraordinary. Young woman and i think what you have done is remarkable and what you've done for these girls lifesaving but i wonder what effect in fact it's out on you. It's helped me trust my intuition more. Everyone's education is different. You need to if you consider that. People are going through pain that you don't know about it also has made me a better babysitter. I believe because has now. I asked the kids of like if there's anything wrong. I make sure i make a strong connection with all. The kids babysit so that they can trust me. Tell me if anything anything like this happening to them and it's also helped me choose my career path because i aspired to be a mask teacher and in the future her if i become a math teacher i will know if i see a bruise on a child that come to school or anything to get on top of it right away but you who as a young woman hearing all the details everything you've learned about what these girls went through it. Must it must live with. You must be something that trauma trauma you share. Yes i even have dreams about it. Sometimes it. It puts a strain on me but at the same time i am grateful that i was able to get out of that situation. I feel like i was put there for a reason and and that although it might have been traumatic for me and i'm going to have to live with that trauma for the rest of my life i was able to stop their trump will aw justice. You truly live up to your name. Thank you so much and and you people calling you a hero i will i will join them with that. Thank you so much what needed for those girls justice taylor's phone call to edmonton police twenty seventeen led to charges in case of child abuse the two accused women who cannot be identified in order to protect the identities of their children pleaded guilty this week to aggravated assault and unlawful confinement <music> <music>. You may have heard the news on our show yesterday. Fourteen former provincial and dp dp candidates in new brunswick were ditching the party for the greens but earlier today federal and dp leader jagmeet singh said that that number is inaccurate and he called on green party leader elizabeth may to give some answers. Here's what mr singh said to reporters in montreal us permission. That's being proposed being put forward by madame me that is a false effectively is turned out that they've presented information to the public that doesn't actually accord with reality with the truth and it's really up samat me <hes> ms me to respond in the green party to respond to that <hes> it turns out there's not fourteen people and they were candidates provincially and they weren't actually all all included in the letter and there's lots of things that need to be cleared up but i asked <hes> you to make the questions to matt's respond to what actually happened and why they're putting putting out false information that's end ep liter jug meet sing speaking to reporters earlier today with the green party has confirmed that at least five people who were on that list shouldn't the been there and some of those candidates said in a joint press release today that their names were added without their consent and they were shocked by the news reports earlier this week <music> <music> desmond morton once provided a suggestion for his own epitaph. History is another word for experience. The university of toronto and mcgill historian explained quote. My versions of history have been powerfully influenced by my own experiences as a student a soldier a writer and especially as an unashamed political activist and an academic administrator administrator unquote professor morton died on tuesday at the age of eighty one. He was the author of more than forty books including popular short history of canada. That continues needs to be taught in classrooms today former m._v._p. Leader ed broadbent was one of desmond morton closest friends. We reached mr broadbent in ottawa mr bad event first of all. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Well thank you he he was he was indeed a good friend he ha- he were a lot of the hats throughout his <hes> his life didn't he. I mean he was he was a historian. He was a teacher he was well. He was an activist but he was in politics politics but what was he like as a person. What was he like. Is your friend he. He wants to select a phrase from my youth. He was the real mccoy he was a totally genuine. Human being and i had many many interests and he was deeply intelligent guy but he kept separate his own values for example as i've already indicated a committed social democrat but when he was writing history he took off that social social democratic hats so to speak <hes> and did not let it shape his own <hes> interpretation of facts wasn't ready eddie separated values out from his life but then he did make sure it didn't shape <hes> his reading of history and so he was a great historian orient and a great many canadians. I believe <hes> in my generation. <hes> got their picture of the history of candidate through the work so does morton well. I mean all these hats that he wore when he took them all often. He kicked back. It was just talking to him as a friend tells a bit about him as s. person you know how can i express that. He was a guy that <hes> was it. The simaltaneously taniwha sleep. You felt very close to is as i say it's a real mccoy but he was hard to get <hes> to express <hes> what's <hes>. How would i put it. The emotions of friendship <hes> there was <hes> there was not a barrier but there was a kind of i'm inclined to say eh almost generic with white anglo saxon males a sense of pri- privacy or borders others even between friends that you didn't cross <hes> so some sometimes hard to get to him <hes> in terms of what the the deeper emotions and in conversation but the way he expressed them was in his writing in the last a few years of his life he he had a regular correspondence with friends. You would send out for a while on a weekly basis extraordinary one page age <hes> observations <hes> on the state of the universe or does something much more mundane that were put in personal language in terms and these were sent to to his friends and i have a hunch that he he felt much more at home in writing ah even to close friends to say what he has his mind than he did in terms of speaking directly to ask you about the waffle movement and <hes> that era era of politics the waffle of being a walk say a radical movement within the m._v._p. Late sixties seventies. You were initially. I think part of it but you use you saw more different course anti p._d. Take but does morton was very much involved with that. How did how did you reconcile gonzaga. Did it did that affect your friendship at all. Oh no not at all <hes> he was always able to bridge such a gap. He recognized nice that there were a different political perspectives even within the family if i can put it that way but that didn't affect his his personal relationships use and and that wasn't always characteristic of people within the waffle if i may say as opposed to people who weren't in the waffle one of the unfortunate fortunate aspects of built that that part of the history of the m._v._p. Is that it created very often on both sides of the debate whether you're pro or anti waffle kind of animosity frequently the did seriously jeopardize some friendships but this was not the case with says is certainly not with me. He respected fully the differences of opinion within the family. If i can put it that way deal with you once once you became the leader of the party once you had that power well frankly <hes> he was terrific. He was one of the few people if i can put it that way and a leaders busy agenda. If there's a series of calls that you had to make an a day in the name does morton was is there. I i would be certain to put him right up at the top of the list <hes> when i even had quite a busy schedule as leader later because he was to use a hackneyed phrase man who always spoke truth to power so he would in <hes> addressing any issues of the day. I could be sure when i was talking to dez. I would get truthfully what was on his opinion. He was never interested in flattery or making one feel totally comfortable with the state of the universe quite often quite the opposite to make you feel uncomfortable. If there was wasn't important truths that he wanted to get out and <hes> and this is <hes> remarkably important <hes> quality he had. I suspect you'll be getting a lot of calls like this. One and people wanting you to pay tribute to desmond morton. Help us do that but i wonder in your and you have a private moment when able to reflect. How will you remember your friend. Oh i remember for him as an immensely intelligent man who cared passionately about his country and was wonderful friend. That's it mr broadbent. Thank you thank you ed. Broadbent is the former leader of the dp. We reached him in ottawa. In february nineteen ninety-three desmond morton took a call from as it happens brian rooney had stepped down as prime minister former host michael enright question professor. Morton's insists that canada had become harder place under mr mon rooney. I don't want to demonize brian mulroney individual but you and i are talking about an era and an ear is symbolized by the the person who happens to be in charge. I mean the mackenzie king era the era the defend baker and so on well listen the motorola era. It has now come to an end who knows what name will go on the next period of years or even months but this is the maroney period and this is what this particular baker historian of of present-day candidacies different. Let me ask you then as a historian that is you being the historian me asking the question after the n._f._l. Crisis in october in one thousand nine hundred and said that canada lost its innocence now we tend to go through these periods where something happens politically or socially and we're not what we were before for it happened and now we're we're allegedly meaner and greedier and i mean i just i think that <hes> incidentally i don't happen to believe the age of innocence argument with the n._f._l. Q. crisis but i do think that something happened to canada when our affluence came to an end in affluent times when most people counselor getting better. It's easy to be generous because next year you'll have more for yourself. You can share more right now. What's happened is the conservative dream. I mean conservative. Conservative is define ably somebody who believes the past is better than the future and after eight brian mulroney isn't that what's happened. Most canadians think the future is going to be more difficult for them for their children for the country from the past from our archives that was desmond morton on as it happens in nineteen ninety-three the university city of toronto and miguel historian died on tuesday. He was eighty. One <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> tashaun mcrae moved into her new home in duke alberta at the start of september two days later later. She opened her front door to a group of unexpected guests. Ms mccray was the victim of what's called swatting. Someone had made a false call to nine one one reporting shooter in her home. She told her story to adrian pan host of c._b._c. Edmonton's radioactive. I had gone into the shower. My taught author asleep. My two girls each had a friend over and when i got out of the shower i could hear someone talking over. What i thought was a megaphone. Maybe an ice cream truck. I looked at my window and i saw oh please cars so i went downstairs. I rat myself in a towel to look closer out of my living room window and i saw that my entire street was closed off and there was a bunch of foster's hiding sitting behind bars with their guns pointed at my door and then i could hear them through the megaphone calling for the resin into my address to come outside. I ended up slowly opening the door and coming outside and being email that to raise my hands where they could see them and i started crying that i had a towel on and he didn't know what was going on and i have five kids in the house. It started to come down a bit. They asked me my name. Hold my kids were and they told me to round them up into a room which i did and then i went and got dressed. Four members ended up searching my house with guns and then left. What were they looking for. What did they tell you they were looking for. Apparently there was a shooter in my house and we had shot somebody. I didn't know what to say i i was i swear there's nobody in my house with a gun. I don't know who you're talking about. There's no guns in my house. What did they say when they realized that this was just a swatting incidents into prank sometimes teenagers kicks. We'll do that all i know but it could have been anybody. I can't think of a single person in my entire life life that would do that to me. I'm not gonna play on the previous tenants but i am two days new. They're a really sweet neighborhood brought me cinnamon buns when she heard what happened as a formal welcome to the neighbor. Let's see me and my towel surrounded by szott member so i guess that'd be pretty popular that was tasha's mccray speaking with adrian pan. The host list of radioactive in edmonton uh-huh <music> <music>. It's big with tourists and big with instagram. Irs also just big a now. Toronto is getting rid of its giant sign outside city hall all made up of seven enormous letters it wasn't meant to be there forever and it's not in the best shape so the city plans replacing it with shiny new sign which leaves the question shen of what will happen to the old one well. One small ontario town says it would be happy to lug the giant sign about ninety kilometers east of toronto. Although it really only has a use used for five of the seven letters mark rutherford is leading the charge. We reached him in orono spelled o r._o. Ontario my grad exactly does arnold with the toronto sign but we want to take what is such an iconic figure and install it <hes> in our town somewhere that uh could be seen from the passersby on the highway and attract them into <hes> into our beautiful little town so that they can see what we have to offer and hopefully it can be social media. Yeah i con for us as well fair something. Aren't you there in downtown or no yeah right now. I'm one hundred sixty seven arnold fair. That's actually where we're i'm hoping i can convince. I've been so mean to put it up here. Okay so there's one issue though is that this sign says toronto and you live in or no as which is uh uh spelled quite similarly. You've got our show is arno and toronto of course has a few extra letters there. So what do you propose to do. You know i've a a fifth generation in this town and we've we've always quipped at <hes> or no is toronto with the teas so he would tease over slide slide and altogether together and <hes> we'd have our cell phone sign that <hes> much to our community and it skirts the toronto city centre signed itself if people haven't seen it it's out in front of city hall in toronto right now and it's those are big huge letters. There thinks they're free standing so how how do you manage to eliminate the t- well we're. We're quite <hes> industrious ingenious little community here that <hes> <hes> i'm sure that we could have a look at the construction of its and we've got lots of resources talented people that make it <hes> removed the teas shops the letters around and fabricate what we need to fabricate <hes> to make it fit our location here in ornell you still have it would still say the same way. We just take leave gaps for the teaser tries. Try to smooth them together and we could slide last or no in closer <hes> and <hes> and make say <hes> <hes> you know one one simple straight word or ornoff okay. You contacted toronto's mayor john tory what he say about this well. He didn't say no so that was the first positive then he <hes> he thought that <hes> it was an iconic sign and i think he recognized that it was going to be taken to recycling and you know he <hes> he suggested that that <hes> you know he'd like to see the sign allstate together so that toronto would get more love but he's certainly recognized. I think that <hes> that might be be a suitable location <hes> to move it out here for us and let us get some <hes> get some media attention and some and some attraction our small town <hes> with it as well. They want to keep the tease. No he likes to leave the tease in place i think but you know we can we can set it up and turn those off later. Okay so the you know. There is a reason that toronto wants to get rid of the sign that it's it's. It's not waterproof. It costs about one hundred thousand dollars a year to maintain it so as arnaud organize a are you ready for those kinds of expenses. Were a small town and we're. We're pretty ingenious. We make do with not a lot of funding as it is to make great and wonderful things things they hear. I've got a lot of friends that are that are fabricators and builders and construction people that have all thought this is a great idea of already offered to to provide us with free labor in small community spirit to to make this sign as best as it can be and and last in our in our community and <hes> i'd rather you're fine <hes> in our town lane and they recycle yard somewhere left every well you know i could probably sell them to the tom thompson <hes> museum uh-huh or something like that to put some money back into into the projects of getting them here moved or you know we've even had suggestions of putting the ts in in closer location to the sign and with a thank you to the city of toronto for donating the the letters to us we'll play. We'll play the request to our listeners if anyone has an idea where they can do with couple of giant teas but now i but you do sound like it's a bustling place there are no. We were hearing it so i do you think this is going to you. Bring more life into because i know you lost a lot of a lot of businesses and whatnot. Since the highway got moved the highway was divided you know the thirty years ago but it but it really it cut off sort of the the little the little exits into town that used to draw people here and we used to be a really solid self-sustaining town and we used to work and live in this town and it's become a bedroom community in the last four years. It's it's the economy is is changing and we've lost c._n._b._c. bank. We've lost our our food land. We've lost l. c._b._o. And and some other stores have struggled but right now we've got four great businesses that are that are deciding that uh you know they want to commit to our economy and they're going to try and get <hes> open here in town and we're pretty excited with that and is a small town. We're we're vibrant. Energetic can and and <hes> you know any any bit that we can have to help us drop. <hes> people in our community is is <hes> is fantastic and and i think that <hes> the giant into toronto or or no sign with toronto's tease would would be a great attraction for us. Mike huckabee get design and we'll put out the call to our listeners of if anyone's got an idea to do some teas certainly appreciate your time today and the warno thanks he was well. Mark rutherford is from orono ontario. He's trying to get toronto to give the town its sign. We have more on this story on our website c._b._c. Dot c._a. Slash a._i._h. And if you have any ideas for what could be done with those leftover tease let us know our talk back is four one six zero five five six eight seven or you can send us a tweet at c._b._c. As it happens you've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard monday friday on c._b._c. radio one and on sirius x._m. Mm-hmm following the world at six off listen to the whole show on the web this goto c._b._c. dot c._a. Slash h and follow the links to our online line archives. Thanks for listening. I'm carol off and i'm chris how for more c._b._c. podcasts go c._b._c. dot c._a. Slash podcasts.
May 8: Samply the best
"Keith MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. I am the rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard and our families. Search for a cure. Oh My Gosh. Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything. Modifying DNA Heart in my throat cure his controversial unlocking braces brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Carol off. I'm Chris Ouden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight. Sampley the best and Nebraska lab experiments with a simple solution to the big problem when it comes to testing huge numbers of samples for covert nineteen and the early results are promising triple threat. Floods displaced hundreds of thousands of people in East Africa. Many were already struggling with famine and the pandemic. We reach an aid worker. Who is trying to help? Those communities stay above water and then on a mission. A Canadian veteran new helped tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees fleeing oppression after the Second World War with spurred on by the personal motto. Do something learners permitted thousands of new drivers in Georgia have obtained licences without taking a road test? And that's just fine with the state we'll hear from a driving instructor who senses danger on the road ahead and now they won blades. The but's it's hard to say what's more troubling that Queen Guitarist. Brian May has severely injured his rear end or that. He's blaming over enthusiastic. Gardening and a nude awakening an Australian man jumps out of bed and rushes outside to save his kitten from the stark danger of a snake attack all wellbeing stark naked as it happens the Friday edition radio that hopes it was a jonty python old for weeks. Now we've been hearing that. Mass testing is the key to flattening the cove nineteen curve but easier said than done. In many cases there are limited test kits not enough swabs or testing chemicals and huge backlogs a laboratory in Nebraska. Thinks it might have an answer. It's pooling together multiple swab samples into a single test. Kit Saving precious resources in producing faster. Results Dr Peter. I win is the director of the Nebraska Public Health Laboratory. We reached him in Omaha. Dutch island. I know your lab is trying to do more with less when it comes to testing for covert nineteen. So is that working. It is working. We certainly every day. Try to find the right amount of reagents to run our tests because we're doing high volume testing but having different ways of doing it is working for us. We would like to do more. I think every laboratory in the US and probably Canada would like to do more. But we're doing the best we can with what we have. He describe how this way of sort of group. Testing actually works. Yes Oh what what we do. Is We take the specimens and we? We know that we in some of our populations we have a low incidence of covert nineteen disease. Were able to take multiple specimens and group them together into pools and be able to end to one test that might represent five different individuals and by doing that. If we get negative results we can report the individual's out as negative if we get positive. And we split out the pools and test each sample individually but what it does is it allows us to screen a large number of negative people at one time. Okay so they get the idea so you pull five samples together. They're all mixed together. You don't know who's who's but you just at that point just testing if anybody has a problem if they do. Then you go back. And everybody gets tested individually that is correct and it is the same specimen in other words. We don't have to go and recollect sample for instance from a patient and if the pool is positive than we can. We still have the sample available for testing. Where did this idea come from? I was aware of this knowing that there are some large companies in the United States. That do this type of testing for sexually transmitted disease surveillance. I was also aware that the Red Cross does infectious disease testing by pulling bloods together to test for infectious diseases. So I was aware of this process. It just seemed logical. That with PR with are highly sensitive tests. That why wouldn't just work for this particular case in this particular case. I understand that there was a this group testing technique. I guess originates in World War. Two where they were doing it for US soldiers to see if anyone had syphilis but it didn't work so well because the samples got diluted when they got together so you have to remember back in World War Two. They didn't have the type of technology that we have today. In other words a highly sensitive tests because there is a dilution factor that you have to consider you are deluding your samples and we were concerned about that so we did do our our first pulling process. We used samples that had very low viral tighter to see if we can even pick them up and it worked out fine even with low titles. You're doing this Because it's efficient way of getting a whole bunch of tests but if you get more and more of these pools that come back with with somebody with somebody in there is positive and at what point does this method become defeated and we look at right around ten percent is where if you get above ten percent where we are. We have been splitting. A lot of our pools are specimens that? Come to the laboratory come with prediction whether they're high risk or low risk we take the high risk patients and we don't even pull them anymore. We just run them individually and we only pull the low risk patients that we would expect to be negative but as far as Nebraska. You're not at this point. You have the the incidents of cove nineteen is low enough that this actually still works for you. If you look on the news nowadays you will look at Nebraska. And you'll go. Wow they got a lot of positive cases what has happened in. Nebraska is that our meatpacking houses are very high percentage of infectivity. And we're talking forty to fifty percent infectivity. What we've been doing is we've been putting those samples. Aside is considering those high risk. We have the same issue with the meat packing plants here and Now just went ask also because we also hear a lot about false negatives in testing and that the accuracy of the samples. This seems to be variable and summer saying because they're they're just not being the the the swabs aren't going up than the nostril high enough to actually get a decent sample. You concerned at all that you that when you get the all come back false that there might be who actually have cove nineteen in that group. Well we always are concerned about that and you have to recognize that performance is based on a lot of things even outside of the test itself. You know the specimen collection the specimen transport. What source to specimen is taken from for instance all plays a role in how good a test is We feel that the performance of pooling is still very very high in comparison to some of the other tests. That are out there. That are being run. So we don't. We are concerned so much of Having a large number of false negatives coming from this process. I can't say it doesn't happen. No no test is one hundred percent but I would say it's as good as many of the individual tests that are being marketed. At this moment you had to get pre approval from the governor of Nebraska to use this group testing methods so you think that other jurisdictions other states or Canada should consider your technique. And could you convince them? Well I think they should consider it The the reason why we had to get government governor approval is because we weren't following the rules of the accreditation agencies. We don't want to lose our license to do testing. If you look at what's happening now with in the world Having a pandemic having an inability to test is more detrimental than at least trying to do something again. We don't WANNA put garbage out there bad results but we felt that what we were doing was as good or better than a lot of things that are being marketed. At this moment. It's very interesting us. Let's of ideas for people to Consider Canada elsewhere. Doctor when I really appreciate you telling it to US thank you. I appreciate the discussion. Thank you Dr. Peter. I win is the director of the Nebraska Public Health Laboratory. We reached him in Omaha. Lubomir Luke had hoped to be in London for vide unveiling. The Corona Voire virus spoiled his plans. Professor Xu teaches history at the Royal Military College in Kingston Ontario. He spent years working to have a new stained glass window installed at Saint James Church in Sussex Gardens the window pays tribute to the Ukrainian Canadian servicemen's Association which was founded by Ukrainian Canadian. Airman named Bohdan Pawn. Chook professor the Chook credits boat on Chook. His wife and Czerny house-key and their compatriots with bringing tens of thousands of Ukrainian refugees to Canada after the war that included the professors own parents. We reached Louisville Maryland. Chook in Kingston. Are you disappointed that you could not be in? Saint James Church in Sussex Gardens this morning well I was able to. Of course watch a brief. A service of Thanksgiving with father owned Father Thomas so in the sense I was present with them and in my heart in my thoughts and prayers. I remember it both on. Punch UC and ensuring Helsinki and the other Ukrainian. Canadian veterans had the privilege of meeting in my life. So yes there was a certain amount of disappointment. Obviously it's a project that has been unfolding for several years but the reality of it is we got it done and that window is really beautiful. So what now so Just I I know it's a it's a really large story. But maybe just in a nutshell. Can you tell us what your personal connection is down? Took back in the late nineteen seventies when I was doing Miami in political geography historical Geography Queen's University under Peter. Gohain my supervisor friends. Since then Peter suggested that or actually almost ordered me to do historical geography of Ukrainians and Kingston. An oral history. So I begin interviewing people and one of the people I interviewed was a woman. I kind of generally new Mrs Cottage Tanuku Cockburn Street and. She told me two things she told me. They've been Ukrainians here in Kingston route war. One mentioned the name Nick Luke and I went off and found him and he turned out to be one of the attorneys from the first world. War I she mentioned another man calls on punch you can. I said I've never heard of him was here. And she said well He. He's a teacher in Montreal. Now you might find him interesting. I looked him up several months and sure enough. What a life. Changing moment. He was a man who was born in Rural Scotch. One very humble origins became a schoolteacher and a prairie one room schoolhouse When the war broke out he volunteered for service with RCAF and overseas began encountering hundreds of other Ukrainian Canadian servicemen and women. Just like him and so. He decided that they needed a home away from home. He and his colleagues comrades-in-arms rented a vicarage from Saint. James Parish Establishes Servicemen's Association and then when they actually get on the continent they beginning encountering Ukrainian refugees displaced persons. The so-called millions of them that the Germans had hauled out of Ukraine slave labourers. My mother was one of them and can his some of his veteran said our fellow soldiers at the time said we've got to help save our brothers and sisters so they established the Central. Ukrainian Relief Bureau and began to articulate a policy of resettlement for these refugees so literally about thirty five thousand. Ukrainians came to account after the Second World War. My parents among them. Thanks to the efforts of these. Ukrainian Canadian Servicemen Punch UC his wife and healthy and others I'm not all of veterans. Of course statement of them came home but a group of them remained in Europe until nineteen fifty two. So when you think that the war ended on the eighth of May and European nineteen forty five seventy five years ago today. You've got some people staying there voluntarily with support of the Ukrainian Canadian committee or congresses. It's No for another several years. And as you mentioned thirty to forty thousand. Ukraine refugees came to Canada from now. This and of course the situation for them wasn't just gone to the war. And and and dealt with the Nazis they were being forcibly repatriated to the Soviet Union. Weren't they so if Mr Punch you didn't get them out. They were going to have to go back. To really uncertain life went they. Yes absolutely I mean not. Only have you say as you say they'd survive? As the Second World War in the Nazi tyranny and the occupation of credit mean millions of Ukrainians were murdered by the Nazis. But then at the end of the war they found themselves under threat of being repatriated the Soviet Union under the terms of the Alta agreement. So of Course Punch. Who can others had to rescue them? They couldn't rescue all them unfortunately. So many were actually repatriated. And that's a sad story in out self but The ones that punch you could save God throughout the West and as I said my parents are among the my mother was sixteen years old when the Germans took her from her village. Burn the village and so on. She ends up on a farm in Germany during the war. At the war's end she's a refugee. Should she go home well? Her own father was murdered by the Communist. So what sort of home to you know? You WanNa go home your mother. They're your brothers. Are there but to go back is to face. Soviet rule and people like punch you can gain all those other. Ukrainian Canadian veterans who helped save them really gave me my life so this is Today was a day of recognizing our debt to those men and women now. We put up a small plaque on that building in Sussex Gardens. Back in Nineteen ninety-five when entering the house. He was still alive and her daughter came and we had a little ceremony. That was very nice but I always felt we needed to do something more. So same James. We've now got this beautiful window which will be unveiled. Probably later this year and It will forever commemorate the service and sacrifice those men and women who volunteered for overseas service. What do you think it would mean to them? They sound like humble people. They didn't want to let a recognition. What do you think would mean to them to have seen that window? Go Up and Saint James. Well you know you're you're quite right. These were very humble people. I'm punch Euch. I've met him dozens of times in in the course of my doctoral research. He never once told me that he'd been recognized with an order of Canada. He only once showed me that he was actually a recipient of the medal of the British empire and his wife Her end but misses punch. I always called her. She lived a and got to see the plaque being unveiled in nineteen ninety five so she was very happy and that this contribution had finally been recognised unfortunately Mr Punch who passed away in nineteen eighty. Seven I think probably what he would have liked most about it. Today would be to know that it was all funded by small donations from people just like him people from all across the country some from the United States and Australia and the United Kingdom but mainly Canadians for many different places around the country. All throwing in to remember and honor and how the memory of these men and women he he once told me that my gospel is very simple. My Gospel is do something and I followed that do something. Don't just talk about what you do should do what someone else should do do it. I really appreciate you telling us this story today. Thank you well my pleasure Carol. Thank you for having me. By by Maryland. Chook is a history professor at the Royal Military College in Kingston and we reached him in. Kingston The driving road tests can be a gateway to freedom but also an absolutely terrifying rite of passage for teenagers and probably for the people doing the testing as well. Why need strange times? The state of Georgia has been allowing everyone to skip the ordeal altogether. Last month. The state began waving all on the road. Tests to avoid future. Backlog and Georgia's Department of Drivers Services is now reporting that it in that time. Nineteen thousand four hundred eighty. Three teenagers have received a driver's license without a road test. Sarah Casto is a driving instructor in Georgia. We reached her in Monticello. So what are you thinking when you realize that there will be teenagers? Who never took the road test out driving in your state? was terrified and furious that it became an executive order. I'm confused as to how this happened. But what exactly has happened? What's been allowed? So the Department of Drivers Services suggested to governor camp that they Suspend Road tests and just allow teenagers and adults to paying their driver's license online and the teenagers. They're supposed to have parents for approval but all they have to do is check a box online so really. The rental approval isn't even being watched And then adults can just go online and get their driver's license and since it started. When did it start? I'm the executive order was from April. Twenty third. Wow and they're about twenty thousand teenagers. I understand that have done this. And it was twenty thousand. The last time they release numbers which was a few days ago So since then it has gone up to seventy thousand and we're not sure how many of those are teenagers. And how many adults okay? Now you're driving instructor so you have a pretty good sense of what state of of driving ability. A teenager is at beat when they're going to do their test. What what what can you tell us about? How how competent. They are using the ones who are applying online. I was the students that I've come in contact with it. Depends on if their parents driving them or not. If the parents are driving with them spend their decent but they still need me to kind of show them what the really supposed to be doing but a lot of the students. I've taught their parents are not driving with them and not even close to the required amount but I mean I guess if you're if you're a teenager the chances are pretty good that the only car you be driving for the time being as your parents car so wouldn't they be invested in the idea that they want those kids to know how to drive. You would think yes. Their parents should be invested in their kids. Safety of driving their vehicle or the parents vehicle In my experience the parents just don't see them the city and driving for forty hours. I'm not sure if they don't understand the skill level that goes with it and they've been driving for so long it just hasn't been my experience. That parents put that forty hours. I saw you have launched a petition to have Georgia reinstate the test. What are you what are you asking for? Yes so I have about sixteen hundred signatures on that petition. Right now and what I'm asking for is for them to stop the online distribution of licences and allow the private driving schools to take over doing the test while the DS remains closed. Now we're allowed to test right now but there's a requirement that each person does six hours of lessons which does get kinda spicy but they would allow us to give the test to anyone just like the DS does. We're ready willing and able to do twelve tests days seven days a week if they'll let us and the you have had some of your lockdown Conditions lifted so. You would be comfortable being in a car for that. Many times with somebody During the well the ongoing issue with covert nineteen absolutely just because we do the test in our vehicles and in between each student. Wipe them the car with disinfectant. Our instructors and wearing masks At the students parents want to come in and wipe the car down. We let them We're following all cleaning guidelines and it's in our own car so we don't have any problem with getting into somebody else's car that may or may not be clean. We'll have you heard back from the state to to your petition. I did get a call. From the governor's office in one of his policy incisors and he basically gave me information on how this came to be that it was a recommendation and he said that they are just now getting blowback from it and push back from all of the constituents but that they were supposed to be meeting to talk about it but didn't really give me any promise of progress. I told him to be staying on top of them and he gave me his line And I'm sending letters to some other district representatives to see if we can push along because we need to go ahead and stop this as soon as possible. More people get their license and you mentioned. It's not just teenagers. Who are getting their first license. This is also adults So are you concerned about them as well and actually a little more concerned about the adults because the adults who haven't driven that I have had in my car doing driving lessons They have driven less. If at all than the teenagers. I come in contact with because that has their parents behind them forcing them to drive. They might not even have a car to practice. Man and a lot of the girls who taught have gone to the Department of driver services. I and failed the test for your more times and then realize maybe I should lessons. Well all as adults now. They can just get their license and don't have to buy any lessons have to do anything all they just tick. Some boxes and off they go. They just have to have a learner's permit Which is very easy to get a written tests. And they do have to have their learner's permit before this time but those aren't expired for two years so any adult that have had their permit before until twenty third could go online and just get a license. Isn't it the running joke when someone you see someone doing driving very badly say whoa? Where did you get your license in the mail? People say wouldn't as an insult. I knew that I would actually the reality that now. Okay but even if you get this reverse does it still mean that there are seventy thousand and and and and going up numbers of people out there were who have had no test or to drive. It does and maybe. That's something that we can discuss. If Governor Kemp whatever agreed to meet with me or other owners driving schools maybe we can discuss. Having those people have to take tests. But I'm not sure how we would do that But that's just the consequence of their decision. We know that there are fewer cars. At least here. I'm sure there as well during this time of of limited mobility so I guess when it gets up to full speed again. Are you concerned about those accidents? Absolutely I mean my husband is a driving instructor. My mom does the school people. I love and care about an on the road. More often than your normal citizen We're on the road all day long on so I'm definitely scared of what's GonNa Happen. When the reopens Tara? We will leave it there and I appreciate speaking with you thank you. Yeah so thank you so much bye. Sarah Casto is a driving instructor in Monticello Georgia. That's where we reached her next week. The State of Wisconsin is set to start waving its road tests as well. You can find more on that story on our web page at CBC DOT CA slash. H theaters have closed. But the show look on play me. Podcast is thrilled to present a new series. The show must go on featuring provocative productions from some of North America's most acclaimed creators for the stage. Sit Back and experience. Everything from chilling thrillers to Gut wrenching dramas to a reverend comedies. Each month experience the exhilaration of theater from the comfort of your own home. Plenty available wherever you get your podcasts body. Classic Solo from Queens Classic. Rock you which Brian May shreds shredding in the context of rock means guitar playing whereas in the context of medicine it can mean severe injury to the complex musculature of the gluteus maximus. We Know Brian. Making do the first thing and now we know he's done the second on Wednesday. Mr May put up a post on instagram. Which he revealed he'd been hospitalized and was in what he called relentless pain he had done extensive damage to what the old blue standard calls his money maker. But Brian made didn't sustain that injury. While ripping into a face melting solo as he explained quote I managed to rip my Gluteus Maximus to shreds in a moment of overenthusiastic. Gardening Unquote perhaps the most disturbing sentence in rock history. And that includes all the sentences in Steven. Tyler's autobiography still. We wish Mr the best. We'll try to forgive him for his revelation. We will cope with our discomfort. The what same way. He is coping with his by turning the other cheek. They were already dealing with locusts and drought and now amid the famine in. East Africa there are the floods hundreds of people have been killed by rising floodwaters hundreds of thousands more displaced in Kenya. Uganda Somalia Rwanda and Ethiopia aid workers and government agencies are scrambling to help affected communities but those efforts are further stymied by the potential spread of Corona virus. Jemima Komati is a health and nutrition coordinator for Action Against Hunger in Kenya. We reached her in Nairobi. Demand making you. Just give us a picture of how these communities that are affected by the rains in the feds. How are they coping? We are seeing a lot of displacements Within the commute this communities of in Westport county individuals have been displaced Lack of Shell tabbies lack of households. The population Lack food and the affected populations have moved to self grounds to make sure that they don't get affected by the impact of the floods. So we are seeing a lot of momento to suffer groans We are seeing a lot of devastation within these communities. Gaza these communities that have lost their source of livelihood The loss of lives soul days a lot of devastation. At at in in this community when you talk about devastation this is their homes are gone for the most part and so now. They're looking for some other place to go. Where where are they going? Summa in schools internally displaced comes have been created in schools and also some have been integrated within other communities. So you find that. They try as much as possible to find refugees in the schools where they can at least find shelter in hide from the impact of the heavy rains and also in those communities that have not been affected flats day integrating Assam of the members within their households understand. You have been a colleague of yours has been personally affected by this. Can you describe that for us? One one of our colleagues their house was partly submerged in water and unfortunately to the story billions of their managed to go to the roof. They stayed there for some time for hours for they will talk to subside for them to be rescued and moved out to safer grounds. And do you have the food to have it? What do you need supplies? You need to take care of these people that have been several emergencies. Within this region saw in most cases the stocks have been deprived. And you find that we just depending on where we just Bad days a deficit in towns of food commodities to apply to these individuals. And I you know some of the communities that The names of them. In the areas that were describing. We have just recently covered stories where they were. Those same areas were hit with with locusts where their crops were devastated. These the pictures that were coming out of the region were just frightening the way the crops are being destroyed so there you mentioned a series of of of crises are shocked that this community is had what. What have they've dealt with before they were dealing with these massive floods festival within the one year? They Experience Festival re-experience drought. Just when you're dealing with the effects of drought in trying to to to solve all the issues and working with the communities to bounce back out we experience they did. The heavy rains which led to floods and mudslides most of life in Los of livelihoods within this area when you are now dealing with the effects of the the the the floods he came in the locust invasion. So that's happened in November locust invasion happened in January and when we are still dealing in grumbling with that the covet ninety s coming Still thinking of how we can support in terms of prevention and control of Nineteen from hitting the counties. He again we hit with the second of mudslides within the average on. So you find that. These communities have not had a chance to recover bones into normalize their alleged has been consistently been affected by these shocks would affect have psychologically on people. It's said devastating when you talk to their communities They the man who lost seven funny you members in the previous of floods and mudslides in when you talk to him he he's someone who has lost hope someone who does not know where to start from someone who is really struggling with grief at the end of it trading as much as possible to look at ways in which he can bounce back in terms of livelihood in terms of he doesn't really understand the directions on where his life is taking him to. And you know I understand that that you and your colleagues you don't just help people but but you're living this you. You are in the midst of this all this grief. What effect does it have a new Jemima? Psychologically it's draining. 'cause it's the people that you been interacting with the people that you trying as much as possible to to boost and build them in terms of really building their capacity to have sustainable structures so we interact a lot with these n when they affected it also affects our staff because we're dealing with a situation whereby even the people we are working with the loss of life loss of livelihoods ending Mosca. Sometimes you don't even know what you're dealing with because there's so many needs that so many things that you need to to deal with so your son in between what should I look at for example if it's fundraising what are you going to fund raise for if you're supposed to respond. What are you going to prioritize? 'cause their needs avast and all the needs important so it really has as pat to really try in walk with them. 'cause you're seeing the pain they experiencing in some of the paint. You don't have control over it. It really really drains in fact. I don't know how you cope but I'm glad you're there and able to do what you can to help people in Kenya. I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you thank you so much. Take Care Jemima. Komati is the health and nutrition coordinator for Action Against Hunger in Kenya. We reached her in Nairobi. Sylvia ostry was a powerhouse. She headed Statistics Canada and the Economic Council of Canada in the early eighties. He ran the Department of Economics and Statistics at the E. C. D. in Paris when the G. Seven in Toronto in Nineteen Eight. Ms Ostry was at then Prime Minister Brian Mulroney side in every meeting. And all the while she was celebrated for her style her wit and her ability to throw a wicked party those she hosted alongside her husband. Bernard ostry a fellow public servant who died in two thousand and six. Sylvia died yesterday. She was ninety two years. Old In nineteen seventy-five Sylvia and Bernard were Barbara from guests here on as it happens. What is success in Ottawa? Based on what do you have to have to make? Are you talking about? The public service talked about politics. I would I would think Bernie gravely from my observation of the public service in the years that I've been there that by and large and to probably a greater extent than in many other countries it's based on performance and merit. Why have the two of you not thought about going up front to go for elected office? You risk having your ideas or scotched. You're visible anyway. Why why not go all the way? Have you ever been tempted? Other civil servants have done I guess by predisposition and training The kind of Things I do. I'm better equipped to do the kinds of things that politicians do. I don't understand as well and I don't think I could do nearly as well and I think I have any predisposition to do. It's as simple as I we. Can we leave products behind for a moment and talk about personal life in Ottawa? How do too high powered people make a marriage work too ambitious successful people in an era when marriages are just dropping off? Stupid thing in a way to say. But how come you're making it. What are you doing right not worrying about that planning and plotting for it? I'll tell you that never occurred to me. I think an important thing in our marriage is The fact that we have a very strong mutuality of interests but Which have nothing to do with the work? We're doing and I think that the work redoing is terribly important to us and the area which is left becomes so valuable because there's so little of it that's a tremendously powerful cement bond for both of celebrated Canadian Economist and Public Servant. Sylvia ostry died. Yesterday she was ninety two years old she and her husband. Bernard ostry spoke with former as it happens host Barbara from in nineteen. Seventy five. If you're going into battle he wanted to be prepared now. Of course that means having the proper weapons but it's just as important to ensure you're protected after all the best offense is a good defense. Of course there are exceptions one notably in the case of Nick Kerns. The Australian man recently waged a battle against a python after attacked his kitten. But when Mr Kerns jumped into action he was not wearing any armor in fact he wasn't wearing anything at all. We reach Nick Cannon. Yara Australia Nicorette where you're doing when you're kitten was attacked by a snake. Well bicycler was sleep. The Tom Karen got up about Seeks the air and all of a sudden Oswald can apply certain slinging out in the door and saying NECAS site Scott One of the cats and so a jumped add Beta stood on the Forbid its own And then jumped at Saad and sure enough. There was his coral of snake around one of the kittens. And I think we've I sort of looked at shocked and got all. What ARE WE GONNA? Can you describe it look like well all I could say I could say? Just the Her back legs sticking out a bit. Add the sort of coil of awesome and it was on the POW lane skyping sort of the garden near but from the point of view title shock and. I don't think any of us really knew what to do with that on. How big was the snake? It's it was probably around two and a meters. We get a few lock that we get a few a little bigger than that. Some SORTA glad it wasn't one of the really big ones from my point of view. It is but this is a python. We're talking about right. Yeah the olive. Parsons is sort of fairly common around here. Few sort of yeah but the the olive. Parsons Probably Common Law. They call it big and long and they sort of get chunky in the middle with quite a small head. What did you do well? Basically grab the picked up. The snake picked up the whole beat and actually I didn't realize that maybe it wasn't a fell a couple towns in the price doing and camera's holding the Tylenol was sort of you know why trying to type the coil often. It just wasn't gonNA work. It was just stuck on and I can say the cat was standing to sort of lock all well. You know the the legs weren't kicking match. I'll just sort of an oil and rached into the middle of the coil was Grad the head of the psych and nicely sort of pulled at it and break from the cat and basically Don coiling. At that point the Mon- problem was always watching the can't sort of full and worry about the cat and sort of like the hey so snack around and started bought me a few times on the hand and then actually want out of the The kitten will So basically granted again sort of tossed it not to have into the gardens so the kitten was you were not now one element. We need to introduce. You understand you when you did get out of bed. You had time to put your glasses on but nothing else. It's pretty healthy So you know generally speaking you're not going to be wearing Dallas. Thirty degrees and August I'll jump down. I actually didn't realize until light off. I just a kid. A was never proclaimed on the door and probably the thought of actually picking up the whole coil and try to hold. It was probably not a great idea. the clothes on you know you feel vulnerable. Only lighter ninety go ahead. Tom Think know it seems like a long time. When you're doing it and you sort of panicking data that it probably was. I fairly quickly Lighter on look to myself and actually there was a bit of me. Oh Gee she's I kind of realized it was my blood and it wasn't from the balance from fooling either. Basically scan almost must fatema hands on the hips knees and I was totally oblivious to light up. Tetanus shot is that right a actually. That's it all in the site bond really but okay. So what about Lil the kitten? How's she doing yes? She hurt herself a little bit win. She sort of dropped out of the snake and I think she she had a sore leg and took a bit of a chunk out of it shake but that sorta he'll pretty well She was bit skittish for about three or four dies in sort look remotely long. She just jumped and interesting. We've got two kittens and both are gone. That gotten anymore. Say One was watching our thing while the other one clearly the more traumatized otherwise. She's fallen in fact she's playing with his sister on him in front of me and I've seen the picture of these kittens and they are just about. You couldn't be cuter so but you did. Take you take a risk for that. Little girl that any hesitation is it. We just determined that little girl go. No that's not why I was going to sort of stay. Snack Kate the kitten chains. Now who's coming off? Hookah by Crook. He wasn't gonNA get. It wasn't going to get a meal kit. That's for sure but clearly we must have got Tom and she's fawns kid interview. Questioned your your. You're sleeping habits your tire with already a bit cooler here them so you know if I was going to do it I do it now. Not Nike by the way that you see bit cooler there. You're talking twenty degrees. Yes sir. It's gone down twenty degrees. Which for us is fantastic. It is every Canadian is jealous hearing about that. But they're not jealous about you encounter with the vice on to say that I do really fees not. I hadn't realized until we got the KITTENS and now on wall but normally it's just a poisonous snakes but I'd never intended to sort of peak them up my hands ratings some using a grabber thought that but You know not really that tectonic things you have another encounter with a the problem. Could that a naked. Nick earns recently rescued his kitten from Python attack. We reached a clothed. Nick Kerns in Canada. Era Australia We want re- need an anti circus. Who Played Golf in the Lord of the Rings series is giving it to us? It is not a practice but it's pretty close today. Mr Circus read the entirety of Jr. Tolkien's book how many hours did I say? Jr Tolkien's book the Hobbit live. It took a more than ten hours including a couple of breaks to use the Lou. And he did it all to raise money for charity. Here's a bit from chapter five in which Ghalem and Bilbo are trying to outreach. Other if Bilbo wins goal must lead him out of the mountain if he loses he gets eaten will be sold felt terribly loud miles world stearns angles and fans comes. I and follows laugh. I'm changes learn. Build that sort of thing and the answer was all around him anyway dog. He said about him scratching his opportunities thinking Geez did yet golden treasure inside. Is he often time to really awesome? This easily Chestnut though Eagle and not often in the usual but he proved announce depots of on he. History of still. He didn't say we and splutter. Some time came patient. Well what is it? He said the odds is not a kettle boiling over as you seem to be thinking. Seem to from annoys. You were making giants well below giving him a long John. What ABOUT GAS? Remember feeding nests long ago and sitting on the Rue Bank teaching his grandmother teaching his grandmother to suck yes. Cd's broth stuff. Novels Lost Arl Maller Tone in his journal. This was greatly because he was always thinking beyond also but he could not remember anything better. The moment he was flustered by the question and it was oppose of Bilbo. Who had never had anything to do with water? You can help me. I imagine know the of course of course when you can get the disease To be dangerous would be to thinking but bill by sat his once or twice the now also carry the answer to that riddle which Bilbo eventually gets is fish. That was Andy Circus. He played golf in the Lord of the Rings Movies. Reading the Hobbit and took him more than ten hours. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the BBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. And I'm Chris. How for more? Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.
National affairs panel
"This is a CBC podcast Galloway. This is the current our first order of business as a re elected government to once again cut taxes for the middle class when the house returns next week we will also move forward immediately on ratifying. The New Nafta as Prime Minister Justin Justin Trudeau as he wrapped up a cabinet retreat in Winnipeg yesterday over the winter break the government has been grappling with a natural disaster and a national tragedy but his MP's return to the parliament. The liberals are hoping to get back to their agenda. There is a lot to discuss our national affairs. Panelists are here to help us sort through all of it. nuancing Claire is a columnist with Winnipeg. Free Press Marie vestal. Parliamentary correspondent for Lavar Susan Delacour national columnist in Ottawa. Bureau chief for the Toronto Star. Good morning to you. All it will Good Morning Susan. We'll start with you. The prime minister we heard a little bit of it. There has a bit of a laundry list of priorities for when the house returns. This is of course a minority government though and and how cooperative do you think the opposition will be helping. The prime minister moved through that list. Just a guess not at all good start. We're already hearing that. I'm glad you emphasized in the The intro their agenda versus other agenda. I think that there's a feeling that this this government spent a Lotta time reacting to unexpected things in its first mandate and didn't actually push the things it wanted to do. And we're seeing. It was interesting twisting yesterday. When he came out of cabinet to distinguish between those things they've got to do NAFTA The the new trade deal with United States they do have to do something on assisted dying because the courts of told told them that but they do Really have to do things they talked about during the election as well and I guess that's what I'm going to be watching for four but I'm also All the signs we got yesterday was that I the opposition is going to want to talk a lot and I. I hope the liberals feels like meetings. Because they're going to be in a lot of Marie. I guess one of the reasons why people might think that there would be a maybe a different tone and more collegial tone in the house is because of what this country has been true Certainly in the last couple of weeks after the tragedy of the Ukrainian airline's flight and the prime minister and the Liberals have received. I think fairly good reviews in terms of how they've handled handle that tragedy and the way that they have pressed around with that at all lead to a different tone in the house. Well it's always Surprising how quickly they set aside partisanship when there's tragedy we've seen unfortunately a few deaths on the hill in the past few years and and in a moment of instant when the news breaks they all become collegial and supportive of each other. It's also surprising. How quickly though that goes back to partisanship the day after even sometimes a few hours after so yes yes The prime minister has been Recognized for his efforts to show empathy to the families to try and get answers to push Iran for answers. But I don't think I will prevent in any way the opposition from defending their own agenda which they do have a specially I if they're looking for an early election earlier or rather than later given that it's minority government and we've already seen that this week with The party's re reuniting different caucus meetings We had the block yesterday Montreal. The and EPA's reuniting today the Liberals and the Conservatives later this week and we're already seeing lines of fracture if I may say On named namely the this new NAFTA deal. It's it's unclear. The prime minister said yesterday he wants to table a building next Wednesday and get it first thing done when the House resumes. It's unclear if he'll actually get support from opposition parties and it'll be one of his first test where he has to convince at least one of the parties to be on board and none of them. So far have said They I will vote. Yes two of them. The block in the Conservatives have said they will try and delay it as much as they can at the very least to prove a point and show their their voters were their supporters that they are defending their own drone agenda and their own priorities sinclair. Do you see any room for optimism or will there be as Maria says a lot of point proving no you you're only gonNA see Just ongoing continuance of women minority government as long as the other parties are kind of in disarray. the Conservative Party. The of course going under the leadership process and so they'll they'll continue to stall and continue to allow things to go with. ADP Senate identity crisis in terms of what to do with. Climate change changed what to do with carbon tax. And of course the block will continue to try to instigate Discussions involving Quebec in various different ways. And and really the only reason that you're going to see a great deal of delay and the meetings that we're talking about is because the other parties are in such disarray. Prime Minister put it that it list And we heard a little bit of it. And he was speaking at the end of this cabinet retreats A- after a inconvenient around that there was this conversation at the prime minister had with creamier. Manitoba Brian Pallister says he wants to strike a deal with Ottawa on climate change and the climate change plan. Listen we deserve to be respected for green record. We do not deserve to be called climate. Change deniers anybody. We're prepared to be measured on our green plant. I raise this with the prime minister. Today the dialogue will move forward. And we'll see where it goes from from here. You can send cleric. Seems as though Brian Policies changed his tune a little bit on the issue of a carbon tax. What's going on there? I don't know if anyone remembers. But the the oddest couple of ever happened opened a short while ago with Doug Ford into and Justin Trudeau coming out together and being the buddies and the weirdest the weirdest situation ever happens wins in minority governments and and this is a similar. Weird Situation This kind of situation. I think you're GONNA see over and over again with conservative. Premier's who need public support the need to move a little bit towards the middle and then you're seeing a prime minister who also needs to appeal to the West and so in a situation like this what you need. Is You have two people to politicians additions. who kind of sorely need the support of each other And coming together on issues like this however the ongoing struggles and the carbon tax issue between Western premiers this who desperately need to support a major environmental economic projects that involve great issues such as the transplant an extension and the expansion expansion the oil patch out in northern Alberta at of course the the issue involving with the stage note in BC. These ongoing issues are going to bring them together for a short period period of time and then the true colors will merge is their strategy behind Choosing Winnipeg for the cap retreat. I'm sure there is what what do you make of that. Strategy undoubtably notably. I mean of course would have pigs in the midst of Donut Gate over here and talk about the situation involving. Where do we buy doughnuts in the country and the ethics around donuts? But the real really she would involving Winnipeg here is this is the probably the softest landing that the prime minister can have in the West But you're also seeing a Chris. It's a it's a rather lourdes shore of support as the gateway to the West. Treat here in Winnipeg. It's a safer place to be but more importantly you've got spokespeople. Here who can speak on behalf of the prime minister said the prime ministers in the face of federal policy. And so you've gone. You Know Jim cars being the most obvious example but Christopher Deland and please people that are generally well are well accepted opted here. There's not a lot of demonstration that's going to happen here. And so it's not just an issue of donuts here in Winnipeg. It's an issue of trying to get a message across and trying to get it inroads onto the west. I'd be happy to talk about about donuts but Susan Donegan's point it seems as though maybe some of the Tensions that the prime minister had with other premiers have cooled off a little bit and it's not interest In in Manitoba also yesterday and Ontario with Doug Ford. What's going on so I thought there was a very interesting moment yesterday when Christa Freeland was talking talking and unfortunately she didn't complete her sentence She started talking about she's now met with all the premier's she was talking very optimistically and more or less what she was saying was she said. I told my cabinet colleagues this and then she never really told us what she told her Cabinet. But Ah what do you think. She told her. Capco divined from that that she was saying that the premier is is is Worse than their bite and that She's been getting generally encouraging or at least Cordial meetings with all of them and it does look like some of that has gone one out of it. I Don I don't think we can discount the role of the Australian Fires in all of this over the last few weeks. I think it has focused many people's People's minds on climate change and I would imagine that premieres do not want to be seen as the Australian politicians and government has been seen as US climate deniers that That is definitely not a good look for twenty twenty Marie. Yeah I agree and I think maybe maybe not still much better scotch one but I think in Ontario and Manitoba and New Brunswick where there there are conservative premier's Conservative members in voters also recognized that the they would like to have some some sort of environmental policy and that's Just opposing nonstop. A federal carbon tax federal carbon pricing is not necessarily the best solution. Susan's right because of all Australian wildfires. But we've seen instances here as well with Wildfires as well or or floodings and I think I think there's a rick recognition we're even seeing on the federal stage with the federal conservative leadership race. That you can't necessarily have no environmental policy at all in two thousand twenty in Canada Canada and I think also they also probably these premieres recognize that they have their own their own agenda to defend. And you know I think Mister Mister Kenny. Maybe lately had been getting some flack for decisions that he took back home and perhaps he wanted to refocus on his own electorate rather than fighting with The the federal liberals for years men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel terrorized. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover. We see this happening. How can you not see this? They suspected a serial killer and they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Sixty six year. Old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time in the village was targeted. You don't start killing at sixty six. Start killing when you're in your late teens. Early early twenties. Uncover the village available now. Wherever you get your podcast? You mentioned What's happening in British Columbia and the tensions is that are Escalating it seems between the premier there John Horgan and the hereditary chiefs in northern BC opposed to the coastal gasoline pipeline just briefly. What does what's happening happening there? Tell you about what we might see in the year ahead when it comes to Relations between indigenous and non-indigenous folk in this country. Well I just add to what we previously had said just a second ago. I don't think it can be downplayed. The impact of the role of the MVP here in Manitoba to emphasize that. Br I think Brown Brian Pallister comes the table. A lot because of the three surgeons at the Pierre in Manitoba but in terms of BC I think what you're seeing here is. You're seeing what's going to be the indication of three different projects Throughout Canada in kind of a stance where the Trudeau liberals are faced with major environmental decisions economic projects at the expansion of the oil sands in northern Alberta. That's the situation involving the gas pipeline. which involves the with state and of course in the Trans Mountain extent expansion? Both all three of those projects. are indicative of a real choice that the trudeau liberals have in terms of relationships of the digits people's going forward and and for over this next year I would say actually for the entire term of this minority government by because they're not going to be solved anytime in the future but as the pressures of the West go onto the federal liberals Liberals Indigenous peoples are always caught in the middle it in historically indigenous peoples have always failed and always have been left behind have always say digits. People's does have failed candidate has failed indigenous peoples ongoing over and over and over again and I think this situation involving B. M. O.. For example that's happens in Vancouver Hoover involving the The handcuffing of grandfather and a granddaughter. Who are trying to open a bank account trying to open a bank account is is a perfect example of a situation that happens all across the country just because you're hearing about it more in Vancouver and Toronto but in but this situation involving indigenous peoples in the treatment of indigenous peoples is? There's a lot more public awareness in there ever for has been before and so these situations which historically would have been just steamrolled over by the federal government are the occupation for example of offices by a young indigenous peoples yesterday today in support in the West Eight. And you're hearing about it more. And as a result there's a national interest of it and therefore the momentum and indigenous peoples are having isn't just at the Supreme Court court which is it's been for three three decades. It's now also in the public opinion. And that's that's having a lot of impact on the federal government. You WanNa talk about choices. The government has to make one of those choices. Susan is about. What's the relationship between Canada and China? It looks like in twenty twenty. There is a new parliamentary committee. That's been struck to examine this issue. What can you tell us about that? I think the most interesting part of that committee meeting for its inaugural Session yesterday was the note that the minister Champagne foreign affairs ministers sent to the committee. minding them about tone It was really interesting. I'm Mary would remember this as well before the election. Even you didn't see many opposition questions on Canada China or the The hostages as we are now calling them probably rightly The two Michaels goals And I think that was because conservatives were in government They understand that you don't want to turn this into a political critical football and you don't WanNa turn those two men's fates into a political football and this is a fraud and interconnected situation and yet ultimately I mean this is a political I spoke with Robert Molly On Monday he's the president and CEO of the International Crisis Group. That's where Michael Covert one of. Those michaels works have listened to what Robert Molly had to say about Canada's and his options when it comes to China I think ultimately there's not much of a choice because China is a growing power and Canada and other countries are going to have to build a stronger relationship or productive relationship. Asian ship with China. China has to make that job easier once that they could take would be released. That is arbitrarily detaining. No shortage of opinions on this In terms of what candidate should do Marie. Vesta what do you make with. The prime minister said yesterday rejecting this concept of what people have framed a prisoner exchange. Secure the release of Michael Covert Cover. I mean I don't think it's surprising. Minister Freeland or vice. Prime Minister Freeland had been saying the same thing minister shopping for an affairs had been saying the same thing and experts. It's actually say the same thing Whether it be security experts or ex ambassador candidate to China like David Mulroney. Who all say you can't give give in to China's quote unquote hostage taking policies Because then he would get what they say is legitimized that way a of doing diplomatic relations. And it's not as simple as saying We will drop an extradition requests from the US. Because then you essentially put into question your entire legal system system and and it's basis and so. I don't think it was surprising. I think there is a recognition by the government and Susan's right by considered the Conservative Party as well then there there there is not much that they can do definitely have the small end of the stick in this important economic relationship and Canada's sort of stuck between the US and China in this as collateral damage of of Donald Trump wanting to Get Miss Mum show extradited to the US or essentially they keep their heads down on. This is that what you're saying. Well I think they have to as much as they did with dealing with Donald Trump. You don't WanNa poke the bear and make things worse for two people who are in jail in abhorrent conditions and so you kind of have to wait and see and try and get support. But unfortunately for the Prime Minister the support that he tried to get from other countries from allies and from Donald trump trump in trying to convince China to let these two michaels go Has Been a not not received or at least it didn't translate in anything concrete because the prime minister said before Christmas he asked Donald Trump not to sign a trade deal with China as long as two michaels were in jail. Well that deal signed and no one really defended those two michaels did they. It's interesting to another and yet another Cryptic statement from Christopher Ealing's week was that more is being done behind the scenes than you know And this is very very trudeau. Government approach like Is Too too active activate a bunch of networks and a bunch of people to you talk to China and I think that might have been what she was referring to but She did hold out some hope that things were going on that we weren't seeing. Let's spend Asari. You're about to say yeah I I think the backdrop of this I mean the totally agree with everything that's being said But the backdrop of this is we've got a corona virus which is now coming out out of China. It's going to impact the situation of the United States and I think that's going to force China and candidate to have a conversation went into. It likely arrives here. I just want to spend the remaining few minutes that we we have on. What's happening with the federal conservatives? We learned yesterday that Johnson former Quebec premier is not going to seek. The party's leadership you surprise that Murray. I'm surprised in the sense that everyone everyone knew that it was his first and foremost dream to be prime minister of Canada. He never hid people here were saying that he would still send Christmas cards to conservative. NPR's are senators kind of making sure that he was still in there good books for the day he would want to come back. But I'm not necessarily surprised given the accumulation of science that we had been in getting For the past few weeks where he was said to be mulling over A run for the conservative leadership but also said it wasn't the party that he used to know well that but I think it's the echo that he got back right so there's Mr Harper saying he didn't want him to come or not saying but behind closed doors perhaps saying he didn't want him is Mr Charlotte succumbing lead his party because he would make it to quote Unquote Liberal in their. We've heard this will of conservatives that say they want their party need to be more progressive again. But I think that Mr Shot. His decision puts into question how much they're willing to be more progressive again because Mr Shah had mentioned it himself he he he is pro carbon pricing. He is pro gun control. He took a lot of decisions. When he was premier of Quebec? That would not have been Popular with Conservative members and it it seemed like an admission That perhaps the party's not willing to go as progressive as he had hoped as the one he had known in the late. Nineties and ex-senator ex-senator Michael Fortier who is senator and a minister. He also meld run at the leadership and he also gave up a few weeks ago saying the same thing speaks aches to what you've been reading but Susan which is the old divides in the Conservative Party resurfacing. I was very struck by the images at At John Crosby's funeral last Friday We're last Thursday. Pardon me late in the week when you really saw You Know Brian Mulroney doing the eulogy. Peterman K.. Was Is there as well but it did feel like. That was a party from another era and and John. Sharon's decision John Kerry who was also there at that funeral wrong does sort of seal. The idea that the party now does belong to Harper And him saying it's a different party now to it it Murray as Maria is talking about I think some of those progressive conservatives went liberal You know you talk to liberals. They've got a lot of support from people who used to vote for Brian. Mulroney or MHM. Bill Davis in Ontario Where so Peter Mackay a I think it leaves the field clear for him? He's the only one who can claim I think right right now we've been a progressive conservative. it does leave Cher. As decision leaves the field clear for him to reclaim that but like Mary. I'm I'm suspicious. This of whether that party still exists. Yeah nigga quickly TERRESA. I absolutely agree with marine sues on on whole bunch of different things as involving the end of the the one hundred th announcement of the end of the old Conservative Party. At the end of Joe Clark conservatism yet again. small C conservatives but the influence -fluenced adjacent Kenny The influence of peer pullover The influence of Steven Harper. I mean the the shadows are very very long. Here we will watch those shadows As this race continues it's only the beginning in the meantime. Thank you all once again. Thanks man neons. In Claire is a columnist or through Winnipeg Free Press Meriva style. Parliamentary correspondent for Lavar Susan. Susan Delacour national columnist and Auto Bureau chief for the Toronto Star for more see PODCASTS Goto C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
January 16: A charged atmosphere
"This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm carol off good evening. I'm Chris Ouden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight charged atmosphere Mister. We're a democratic. Senator says chills down his spine at the opening of Donald. Trump's impeachment trial as yet more evidence emerged haven. I and help a new lawsuit charges Jeffrey Epstein with using his private estate in the US Virgin Islands as a sex trafficking hideaway where he abused hundreds of young women in girls over the line months after he snuck across the border. A former Canadian soldier who is believed to be a Neo Nazi recruiter has been arrested tested. Our guest says it's a big coup for the FBI pulling no punches pulled together. They became the first black tag team in pro wrestling now. Tony Atlas says the legacy of the late Canadian wrestler Rocky Johnson is getting short shrift deep roots even though it survived for more than two hundred million years the so-called oh called dinosaur tree is critically endangered thankfully Australian. Firefighters have saved the last of the wool. My Pines and good thing. The evidence wasn't wasn't shredded. While investing car pelted with processed cheese police in Texas discover a silver lining the slices make excellent fingerprint collectors. As it it happens the Thursday edition radio figures. It wasn't Swiss or their case would be full of holes the Today Donald Trump's impeachment trial formerly you began in the US Senate and if the president has his way the proceedings will come to a rapid end that may or may not be wishful thinking. But in the meantime there are new allegations against against president this time from left Parnis. He's a Soviet born businessman and associate of Mr Trump's personal lawyer rudy. Giuliani Chris Murphy. A Democratic senator from Connecticut we reached him in Washington. DC Senator Murphy on twitter. Today you wrote that a chill ran down your spine. As the articles of impeachment impeachment were read out in the Senate Chamber. What were you thinking you know? It felt very different on the Senate floor today than any other day during my Seven years in the Senate. This is an incredibly serious moment and the charges against the president are as serious as they come using taxpayer dollars players in order to try to bribe foreign government to Help the president rigging American election To my mind that's not allowable in democracy and you know my hope is that we will sort of all understand the weight of the responsibility and decide to come to a agreement between Republicans and Democrats to run a fair trial trial and that means having things like witnesses and document requests and that will either work ahead of us next week. The sense is I'm tell this is a Canadian observation. Isn't that many people share. Is that the outcome's going to be the same that he's going to be cleared of these charges in the end in that what you do. So so what. What do you think can be accomplished with with this trial? I mean that may be the case but we are seeing you know new damning revelations by the way remember these revelations coming from left Parnis are only partial He's submitted a lot of information and a lot of his personal devices. That have not yet been transcribed so you know. We don't know you know what other shoes are going to drop here. Yeah I think there's also a sense in the Senate that most Republicans have already decided to equip the president but New Information may change their disposition position. Really you think that's a possibility anything that would indicate that we may see anything but a predictable outcome and end of the style. I think there's a number of Republicans who wanna see witnesses I think a week or so ago. A lot of people would have guessed that Mitch McConnell would have Already moved to shutdown witnesses. He haven't he. He hasn't in fact he was required by Republicans in this caucus to change the rules actually require votes on witnesses before we vote uh on a acquittal removal So things have been changing. I and I not. I'm not telling you that. I think that chances you know are are terribly good. That a whole bunch of publicans decide to remove the president. I just don't think that this came over weight. Would you mentioned parnasse extraordinary remarks. He's made documents documents that have been revealed about the degree to which Mr Giuliani and low finance. We're working together on this. And trying to get the the the Ukrainians to to do to announce they're going to do an investigation into the Biden family. But at the same time you know that live Parnasse is is charged with making false statements statements and conspiracy. So how can we trust him. Well that's the case with all massive conspiracies The the way that you get get to the people in charge is by first going after the folks who were implementing the crimes And so I just don't find it. A you know a credible argument to say they all of the folks who are implementing the crimes that were potentially ordered by the president of the United States Shouldn't be listening to In fact every good prosecutor starts start with the people Who are on the bottom rungs of the conspiracy the middle rungs of conspiracy And work their way up to the people who actually ordered it. I think that's probably really what we're seeing happening right now. What else have you seen and heard in these past two days that Convinced you that this is a necessary trial. Oh I didn't need to be convinced I I mean I didn't need any additional evidence to be convinced. I heard twelve witnesses testify before the House of Representatives that the president of the United States and people that work for him. We're trying to use taxpayer funds to convince the Ukrainian government to Investigate the president's political opponents so I don't need any more evidence but I. I obviously hoped conclusion that my republican colleagues do and so I wanNA make sure that they have the opportunity to look at all of that evidence before they make a decision to acquit. The president I I just. I don't think there's any question as to what happened here. And I've been pretty open about the fact that I think that the conduct that we have seen that to my mind has been proven Already is worthy of impeachment I I'm open to exculpatory evidence. If the president provides it I haven't seen it yet. We equip people are asking. Why didn't you continue then in the inquiry you had going what? Why didn't the Democrats in the house continue their inquiry and their investigation that a lot of things clearly needed to come out a lot more questions a lot more people they needed to speak to a lot of evidence even had so wh why why did they get shutdowns early? When a lot of the work that you want the Senate now to do could have been done in the house? Well I think it's probably two answers to that question. The first is I'm not in the the House of Representatives and so I can't answer for them My job is to try this case in the Senate But I think it's likely that they they had gotten enough evidence already to prove to their satisfaction that a massive conspiracy to defraud taxpayers jeopardize is. Our national security had happened so once they had sufficient evidence that constituted proof. They moved forward with impeachment. They do you. Do you. Wish the Democrats Push Smart. They they obviously had a few good leads. They could have pursued. That may or may not be pursued in the Senate. Do you wish that your your colleagues in the House had had push this harder. Well there's urgency here You know this trial is all about the president trying to rig the twenty twenty election And so in order to stop up The president from continuing to solicit foreign interference in an ongoing election We had to move fast so again the the house could have decided to take the president to court. Those court cases probably would have lasted for months and months into the summer and fall and the president would have used that time likely to continue. Continue to try to solicit for an appearance so I think we had to move this process. you know in an expeditious manner given the fact that we're coming up against the twenty twenty election we will be watching this. Proceed through the Senate Senator Murphy appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you. That was Connecticut Connecticut. Senator Chris Murphy he was in Washington. DC The four months ago Patrick Matthews car was found near the Kennedy. US This border that Mr Matthews himself could not be found the X. Reservist and alleged neo-nazi recruiter for Manitoba was officially off the grid until he wasn't today the FBI arrested and charged Mr Matthews and two other men with firearms offenses. Among other things. It was just last August. Patrick Matthews had his cover blown a journalist in Winnipeg peg reported on his alleged involvement with the base. A Neo Nazi hate group trying to recruit members in Canada. We covered that story at the time. Mr Matthews then fled to the United States dates and went dark but today he was arrested in Delaware just days before he was supposed to attend a pro gun rally in Virginia. Ben mcadoo is a national security correspondent advice. We reached him in New York City. Ben This man Patrick Matthews seems to have been off the grid for some months. How significant is this arrest in Delaware? I think the rest is significant for a variety of reasons. I mean not just for Patrick Matthews in this whole saga where he's been where he hasn't been over over the last few months but the other thing that this is really pointing to is just how serious federal authorities are taking the threat of domestic terrorism from far right groups United States especially issuing system it like the lead up to a rally in Virginia. That's happening which is expected to draw some extremists. So it's addictive role sources that I have. This is a serious matter for or for the FBI. And Patrick Matthews entangled in it and lead tab the ED can just outlined for us what the FBI is actually accused him of doing of Illegally entering the country as well as being a part of two other individuals who are members of a group that reporting on for a long time called the base which is for lack of a better term a domestic terror organization with international ties and stockpiling thousands of over a thousand rounds of ammunition and creating an assault. Paul reiffel legally and the charge accused of attempting to create. EMT WHO's embiid genetic drug. You have been investigating terrorist groups oops and Neo Nazi groups some time. How does his role? How does what Patrick Matthews was up to compares with other investigations? You've done was he more involved involved was it's similar very similar. You have some. Your Garden Variety far-right outright individuals and groups that patrol streets but the groups that I've been reporting waiting on like Adam Waffen division and the base. These are people that get into encrypted chat networks and discuss performing a tax on people of color and the Jewish people also so creating what they believed to be a race war. That's that's oncoming and when it comes to Patrick Matthews his role in this group it shows the evolution not just a federal authorities their their interest in this pershing threat but also these groups revolving this is individual who is a part of the Canadian forces he illegally entered the United States with the help of a neo. Nazi domestic terror group that then Harvard and hit him as my reporting is shown over the course of months without the federal authorities intervening until obviously we now because he was pointed. He is an ex reservist with the Canadian Forces. What what skills did he learn that he is possibly ably bringing into this Organization of Neo Nazis? Well we we reported exclusively in December that we knew that Mr Mr Matthews was was in United States being harboured by the base and during that time we reported that he also attended something called hate camp which is essentially actually a paramilitary training camp that the base undertook in Georgia in fall twenty nineteen with upwards of twelve members who all were very heavily armed and he helped train other members he also we know had particular weapons training from Canadian armed forces but also had some explosives training as well. At what evidence do you have that that he was actually involved in something more serious than being a member in something and being with other men who had hateful tendencies but at this point might have been charged with weapons possession getting involved with with hallucinogenic drugs and being in the country illegally. What happens do you have that it was it was more serious to the Department of Justice mentions in their press release that the group was discussing attacks against minority groups in their encrypted network? I can tell you that we've had is in this group of four in the past and we've observed what they discuss in enclosed ways. This group wasn't has been quite active in the space. And they've they've undertaken things like paramilitary her military training camps involving weapons and all. This isn't supported something. They believed to be a race war or an insurgency against the state. And I can tell you as well that groups like this have also been interested in what will happen in the twenty twenty election and they see this as a moment of of of acceleration of race war and these arrests I I think are the FBI getting ahead of it. Is there any evidence of anything. Indicates they were actually going to go through with these plans or was this the the rhetoric cover uh of a group of men who were living some kind of a fantasy sixty clear. I've never seen any evidence that Mr Matthews planning terrorist attacks or anything of that nature nor that reported anything like that but there have been general discussions inside of these groups on something called direct action which is code for terrorist attacks one of their key components opponents of this was to be able to perform assassinations bombings without being caught. Mr Matthews was his alleged involvement with the this neo-nazi Group was exposed by the Winnipeg free press and Mr Matthews House was raided by the EPA why do you think that the rcmp never charged him with anything Well they are seeing he soon. After that lost contact with Mr Matthews he went over the border but I can tell my past experiences. They are cespedes and particularly good at policing and understanding domestic terrorism whether it be jihadist international network or a group of the base but the proof is in the pudding the FBI taking this quite seriously and is now gone so forest to level Mr Matthews with charges and arrest him. Do you think that if the allegations against these men if it had been isis and not neo-nazis. Do you think the police would have treated this case differently while Carol. I can tell you that as you know. I've reported on Isis and Al Qaeda and I've I've experienced this as a reporter pressures from the state and interest from the state when you have a member of an insurgent group like the base crosses over an international border order and it's reported just imagine if that had been an isis fighter the type of manhunt that would have ensued if if that had happened. I think I think it's not a departure from reality to think that it would have been taken far more seriously. Then we will be following the developments here and I appreciate speaking with you thank you. Thanks Mr Adamou Ben. mcadoo reports reports on national security for Vice News. We reached him in New York City. ooh in Iraq. That's what it sounded like as wrestler rocky the soul man Johnson's strode toward the ring back in Nineteen eighty-four in Maryland. The Nova Scotia born athlete athlete was one half of the soul patrol pro wrestling's first all black championship tag team and rocky. Johnson earned himself a reputation for dignity in a sport where dignity was in short short supply. And then Mr Johnson turned his mind to training his son. Duane who's become better known as the actor. The Rock yesterday world wrestling entertainment announced that Rocky Johnson Johnson had died last year he spoke the CBC Halifax about leaving a tough childhood in Nova Scotia only to find himself fighting for a living in Toronto. It was very very tough. All I had was a couple of bucks. A suitcase and determination. wasn't bitter wasn't mad wasn't upset. I just knew there was something out there and I had to go up and I had to search for it until I found it. I got room up there then. I went to try recreation center. I started boxing. And they're having arrests were there and we had a rain and nobody showed up that night because just being him because Isis snow and that and he said come on in. I'm not sure a couple of those not knowing that he's GonNa use me for a punching bag but he didn't hurt me because I didn't know anything restaurant and then I got hooked on it rocky Johnson talking to see Halifax Tony. Atlas had reason to be thankful that rocky Johnson got hooked on wrestling. When the two wrestlers joined forces they became the soul patrol? We reached Tony Atlas in Auburn Maine. Don't Iverson I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. Well if feel if you lose your friend if I lost a brother back in nineteen seventy five You gotta excuse my special. We'll just tell it like it is. They met Rocket in Florida for the first time and Raucous Shelby said there in the corner and everything and I wanted to fight him about it. So Nobody wants to get married which a rock came over and set us on talk. He's he's there was the problem and I say I'm Quinton Business. And he asked me why I ah getting tired of every time I walk in addressing with somebody called me and I said I've been called told me that if somebody called me by my real name I wouldn't know what they are. He's at Toyota. Is I have to go through all that stuff too. He's not gonNA stop. He's in the best thing for you do you have to ignore them and You said you have have to stand up for yourself and Rockingham to fight racism his whole life. You know you watch the way that man roster look at the way he he was we all have one of the best physique impulse rest at one of the best drop kicks their goal for good looking guy but he never got the push that the compassion wrestling Russell got so he said when we just heard in that clip he was describing going up to Toronto. His mother basically showed him the door when he was about thirteen and he he had to do it all on his own. What did he teach you? What was the most important lesson that you got from rocky pretty much have the same upbringing I I left home when I was fourteen just about him at black man? During that time they pretty much had that same upbringing. We brought up to believe that Okay it was like this rocket rocket containers same thing. If he was alive gone recipe. My mother told me that to be to be in third place as a black man. You had to be three times bother bother then the white person in first place and that's is with with with the man dropped the title if you notice. They never brought rocket back because rocket was a type of guy he was standing up for himself with me. I let it bill and Bill Hammond Slow Wisconsin and a lot of trouble for rocket. He always spoke up for himself. You know sometime. He wrestled guy in the main event. And the guys have rocketed one. You pay the C. rocket five hundred dollars and they've got a guy that rocking fifteen hundred dollars and you know rocket always all he ever wanted in this business. It was equal equality for black wrestlers. He had stories. His son has told stories of the that kind of racism. The hand counted some of it is just really quite shocking. But what was he like in the ring tells more about his his the way he wrestled. His style is his skill. Were were all all know if you ever notice but if you look at a match Karaka Johnson and then look at the mass of the Rangers but it looks like you're looking at the same person the way moves like his father. He wrestled like his father. He acts like his father. He's you know he's got that same PRI- that his father had so the way it's like a chip off the old block. He just bigger and you know you know looking but other than that you know he just like is that I mean rocket type type of guy never took a survey very professor very very fan friendly and you got all the men at you know rock we gotta talk to the table for our. You just need love this. Is You know he's a great guy. I'm GONNA say he would probably one of the best. You know African American wrestlers over abyss visit and only very few great African American wrestlers. And you know L is one Junk dog and rocket Kajol. And then I believe name these people. You can't really name anybody else. You know that that was known all over the world but you mentioned you mentioned rocky's son Dwayne he known as the Rock dwayne Johnson and movie star and a wrestler quite extraordinary. How did how did Iraqi think of the success that his son had? He went verve. Our problem is he never used his son success for his own game then he went on on his own merits. He never tried to use his son. For to get bookings I'll I'll do anything and I was upset and here now at the house With my my wife my wife had a stroke six months ago so I sat every evening but I i. She's sitting here listening. They'd say she could tell you this to rock and wife. I used to call me to help get rocket book and I must have got. I must have got at least Tornado. Wanted thirty phone calls and I told my wife just before you guys call it. That's a damn shame with that man was alive. Nobody paid him in the norm. That got to die to get attention. I'm sorry to hear that that's A. That's your rocket was never I wouldn't be talking to you. If there's any particular memory of him after all the phone calls are done what what will be some image some some you cherish so you remember what sure is about rocket Johnson that he stood up for himself as a man and that was uncaught fought in the sixties and the seventies for for black man to stand up for himself so if you take Muhammad Ali and Martin McCain You put them together you've got rock Johnson. Tony I appreciate so much you talking about your friend with and and helping US remember him. Thank you you're you're welcome Tony. Atlas was part of a pro wrestling tag team with rocky the soul. Man Johnson we reached Mr Atlas in Auburn Maine yesterday yesterday. World Wrestling Entertainment announced the death of Mr Johnson and we have more on his story on our website. CBC DOT CA SLASH AI h Dateline Carrollton Texas. The detective surveys the horrifying scene before him. It's and yet so utterly inhuman. He takes a deep breath and calls the station. Better get the crime scene investigator down here. He says looks like we got got ourselves a teasing the vandalism. Baffled nauseated Carrollton police. Someone had covered sedan. With at least a Baker's dozen of kraft singles those eerily square smooth processed cheese slices of the cheese itself is not a crime but there was other damage to the car so they had a case and it was Carrollton Carrollton. PD crime scene investigator. Parker Powell who got the call. Every cup dreads they call was. Hey I've got some cheese. Sprints I heard maybe you can help us out. I said what you can hear how shaken he is but like any true professional. He swallowed his paralyzing horror and got back to work work well last week. The police issued a tweet today. We learned two things one covering cars and cheese slices. Apparently the new trend in criminal mischief to cheese slices produce great fingerprints. That's not a shock exactly. Cheese slices are malleable. A now the vandal may be about to find out. Just how lactose intolerant law enforcement can be. Because Mr Powell found at least three perfect prince even if he loses two of them as just back to square. We're one for years. Men were disappearing from Toronto's Gay village. I feel aw terrorized. I'm Justin Lee this season on uncover. We see this is happening. How can you not see this? Bay Suspected serial killer color. And they were right. Police arrested sixty-six-year-old Bruce Macarthur. But this wasn't the first time the village was targeted. You don't start killing sixty six. You'd start killing when you're in your late teens. Early twenties uncover the village available. Now wherever you get your podcast. The extent of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged sex trafficking network appears to be much larger than anyone new fresh accusations of sexual abuse by the wealthy businessmen manner coming to light in a new lawsuit against his estate. It was filed yesterday by the Attorney General of the US Virgin Islands. It claims Mr Epstein was trafficking hundreds of young women women and girls on his private island there until at least twenty eighteen it accuses Mr Epstein who hanged himself while awaiting trial in a New York jail of bringing girls as young as eleven to his estate and that he kept a computer database to track them. Denise Georgia's the Attorney General of the Virgin Islands. We reached her in Saint Croix. This George what have you learned about the scope of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged criminal activities in the Virgin Islands. Well after I came on board as Attorney General in April of two thousand nineteen I should say very soon. After I had received a number of inquiries. He's from various local and national media as well as information out there about oh well people presume or they suspect that that there's a lot of criminal activity that was going on at Saint James Island at the hands of of Jeffrey Epstein. So what I've learned is that after after. I launched an investigation that Jeffrey Epstein was in the Middle and actually the lead in carrying out a criminal. The Enterprise involving the human trafficking of young girls young women and young underaged girls in sex trafficking as well as child abuse and sexual abuse and rape. I the little Saint James Island particular humor in divergent island. These are two places little Saint James and Great Saint James of the two islands were going to be. You'RE GONNA be referring to. Who are the young women and girls? Who Do you believe? Were abused and traffic in this case. Well I'm not going to specifically name victims however these are persons who were victimized in the Virgin Islands on the two islands at a privately owned by Jeffrey Epstein and his companies and his associates associates. And these are persons. who were brought in and traffic into the Virgin Islands for that purpose? You have reason to believe that they were girls as young as eleven years old. What can you tell us? What are you able to tell us? Well witnesses and persons that we've spoken to including victims themselves have revealed that there were other persons the ages range from as young as eleven or twelve years old. And there's a discussing distressing story of Fifteen year old girl who attempted to leave the island by swimming trying to escape from that. What can you tell us about that case case but I can tell you that based on the investigation we were able to verify? I didn't fuck did occur. Obviously they were there. Are people seeing this kind of of activity this trafficking operation that Lots of signs. It was going on are are you not as a an Asian to the law in Virgin Islands alarmed that he was able to conduct this such a large extent for such an extended period of time without being detected. Yeah AH alarmed and outraged but I really WANNA say also I cannot speak for what happened in the past in previous administrations. This is a administration. My came on in April. I don't know all that happened in the past but what I do know is even if people are talking about they believed. These things are happening or discussing suspicions about what is going on unless there's some kind of report or something that the report to line forcement which I understand there had begnaud reports Criminal reports criminal complaints to law enforcement to trigger any investigation. I would say one thing. Is that the islands and the way they are situated as well as epsteins power and wealth. It made it very conducive for him to be able to conceal his actions. Now if you look at little thing genes it's like two miles off of Saint Thomas the shores of Saint Thomas and of course it's an island so surrounded by water. It's very secluded. He has total control. Even if a person or victim wanted to escape they would have to swim swim which is too dangerous to swim. So basically you're almost like held captive there and anyone he whether it's line for when I can just come on the property. This is private property. If I think he what he did is he took advantage of that. He created this safe haven for himself to be able to conduct this kind of activity. Keep them captive. Ah Shield himself from line. Fortunate scrutiny and public scrutiny. There are other cases of cases against Mr Epstein. Even though he is he is deceased. One of them in case civil court an accuser who is saying that Prince Andrew. She names Prince Andrew as someone who was at at this Caribbean island retreat owned by Mr Epstein and she was seventeen at the time and She alleges she had sex with Prince. Andrew are there any other foreigners who may have been involved that you're investigating. Well as I indicated the investigation continues. We do follow the evidence and getting as much information as we can respect to the criminal activity that that occurred here in the Virgin Islands as we just pointed missed Epstein is dead so what can you possibly accomplish with this lawsuit. This lots of this brought as civil enforcement action as you see. We're able to sue the estate up Jeffrey Epstein As well as the associated companies that were engaged in the criminal activity other victims that you have of the girls and women of apart of the are they going to get any of the money is the compensation that you might be able to get to this lawsuit. It is a S- forfeiture action that's available to the government however under that statute we're able to request that the court allow us to compensate victims victims. Were some of the compensation that we would receive them as George thank you thank you. Oh you welcome denise. Georges is the Attorney General of the US Virgin Islands. She was in Saint Croix before his death. Jeffrey Epstein through his lawyers denied all the allegations against him Prince. Andrew has also oh denied all the allegations made about him. You can find more on this story on our website. CBC DOT CA Slash A. I H After repeatedly declining interview requests from CBC news the Bank of Montreal has finally spoken to Angeles Jarrett mystere what is the CBC reporter. Who recently broke the story that helps grandfather and his twelve year? Old granddaughter were handcuffed on a visit to Vancouver Bima branch. In December Maxwell Maxwell Johnson says a bank employee called nine one one over a supposed discrepancy with their identification and when Vancouver police showed up Mr Johnson in his granddaughter were quickly cle- Detained Bima has already announced the establishment of an indigenous Advisory Council in response to the incident and Cameron Fowler says he understands the public's disappointment appointment Mr Fowler is the president of North American personal and business banking for the Bima Financial Group. Here's what he told his stare at in an interview today I personally. The AM shocked and appalled by the situation that that happened here and more importantly very very sorry people are angry and they have every right to be. I'm I am accountable for this situation here. And I'll tell you that I'm determined to To make things right and that's exactly what what we're doing here on the ground today with with respect to the situation Angela. I mean the Stories Control The few Times Number Twentieth Mister Johnson and his granddaughter entered entered the beam. Oh Branch ranch you'll know that in these processes there's a validation of identification that's required to get account open that's true for new and existing customers is true in our bank. That's true in in in all industry in this situation we're unable to validate quantification and problems. Start that's where we made a mistake. We the police in that process. We should not have done in for that wherever story the police when they received the nine one one call. We're told that they were dealing dealing with a sixteen year old south-asian girl and her fifty year old south-asian are fifty year old South Asian male. How did the bank come to the determination that they were dealing with two South Asian individuals? We've spent a quite a lot of time over the last few weeks Angela. Just making sure that we have the most robust view of the fact that information is inconsistent with any information that we have regarding what actually happened. So I too heard that in the media You'll note that we haven't been spending spending time in the media in the early days. We've been focused on getting our hawks together and that's just not that's not information that's consistent with our understanding of the situation. I'm saying that the police are lying about this. I'm just saying that. I think it's terrific that there will be a full police review and that everybody will have an understanding of the end end situation. How tragic it is and how we all handled it poorly and how there's going to need to be some recommendations and some work that we can do to get together to ensure that this never rabbit again? Cameron Fowler is the President of North American personal and business banking for the Bank of Montreal. He was speaking with. CBC Vancouver's Angeles Jarrett it. It was a last stand for last stand of trees. It took a secret crit government mission and a lot of Australian firefighters to save the last remaining grove of wall of my pines from the Bushfires New South Wales. The so-called dinosaur trees have existed for up to two hundred million years and are critically endangered environment. Minister Matt Keane says the government had to do everything could he is described. The rescue effort has an unprecedented environmental protection mission. We reached Minister Keen in Hornsby New South Wales Minister Keen. Why was there such a huge effort act to save these particular trees? The Wall of my Pines Carol. These are some of the oldest living things anywhere on the planet. The trae species Jesus thought to be over two hundred million years old you know. They outlasted the dinosaurs. And we want to make sure that we're able to survive into the future. Can you describe bribe them for us. There are beautiful tree The found only small secret location in the State of New South Wales probably about an hour out of Sydney The trees Quite large so they grow a toll and then like a typical pine tree. But as I said I have existed since at the time of the dinosaurs outlive them. They're saying five coming yogurt. Nothing like the size and ferocity if the five currently saying at the moment why are they. Why is this their location secret? Well these are such a risk. They seize we wanted to keep them secret so that people can go in and vandalized is them when I get into that ecosystem. People have to be decontaminated. That's how sensitive system is so. How were you able the to do what you described as a military style operation yet you said you had to do just about everything to save them? How did you do that and keep the location secret? Carol we pulled out all stops you now. National Parks and Wildlife Service. We have trained firefighters and we dedicate those fighters to protecting is incredibly important. colledge glasses We had fire totted trump's around the trees. We installed irrigation systems to keep the trees. Wet The reason for that is if the five did the three. We wanted it to be a cooler. which would have destroyed the trace? We also reached in specialist fire fighters to help us confront obliged as time towards the trays. And I'm thrilled to say that. We say these prehistoric trays from it. So it's a two hundred trees that's Still still living there. We lost to a few were charred but the rest were able to survive. And we're very excited about that fact given how close those bushfires were at that point. What kind of risk did those firefighters take? All that took a huge risk. I mean these files. A ferocious whip was five point two million hectares edged land in the last muffle to Since there's five began the FIS absolutely ferocious. And you can't easily get into where they sh- raise out hats. Let's be Winston by helicopters so they took an enormous risk. But it was. They were prepared to take to protect these important ecological and environmental lessons. If these trees have been around the species been around for two hundred million years that surely they would have encountered fires before. So what is different about the blaze. The did your fighting in New South Wales that has put these trees at such a such an unprecedented risk. Well that's right. I mean I would have seen five of us. I mean fire enough for part of the strategy landscape But what we haven't seen as five of the Scotland ferocity that was saying right now and so what we attribute that to. He's the charging climate days getting hotter out. Season's getting drier. The season is starting earlier so that's leading to more intense. Bushfires I five is having a huge impact on people and property but also APP beautiful natural environment. We know from following the story about these horrible fires in Australia. Elliot that there's still a debate about in some areas as to why this is happening right now and some saying it has nothing to do with climate change or a little to do with it so is that is that debate important. You need to resolve that in order to actually move ahead on the what you have to do at this point look There is unfortunately too much just to buy about whether or not climate change is playing a role. That debate is a waste of time. Climate change absolutely is playing a role and the Senate people get on the program and Stop talking about whether climate change is real. Then we can start talking about what we're going to do to address it so every minute that we wasted debating whether climate change is real is that we're not talking to deal with the problem and help us lower out carbon emissions globally watching what happened and and and seeing how those firefighters risk their lives. All the things that you've gone through the people who have been killed the houses you've lost in in your state. What is this point? Can you do You know right now as I said there's still a divide in this country about whether we need to carbon emissions. I mean we contribute something like one point five percent percent of total global emissions. That said we still one of the hostile muses per capita anywhere on the planet but in addition to that were whoa place to help other countries he said I watch Emissions of carbon they carbonized. That's the first thing the second thing. We need to start adapting practices to accommodate the normal that what made changing the way we manage. I'll add that means looking at how we do hazard reduction You know the conditions are Chinese Australia globally because we were going to have to change your practices to accommodate those charges. And just finally do you are you. Are you sure that the wall of my pines are dangerous dangerous. This point touching go. We were waiting with baited breath to see whether or not I survived There we were able to see the FIS were approaching the wall of ipod right so we had a few days notice which guys time to get in there and make sure we did everything we could to protect the assets But we would. I want to be sure Whoa by pods five for about four afterwards because the smoke was just so that it was still too dangerous to get in there and inspects the assets finally when the smoke listed rested. We're able to get some helicopters in there and assess. The damage was done. That was people on the ground that have been able to look at it and we are called to the the the trees have survived. But they're not out of the woods yet. They're still reminding threats. One of the ones that you identified is that people Ni- down the location of it so we'll we'll have security up. There will be taping it all these plants and we'll be doing everything in house when sure that they do survive many future. I believe they're at least some small amount of good news from your state minister. Keen appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you. So much mad keen is the Minister of Energy and Environment Environment. For New South Wales. We reached him in Hornsby and and and if a Prime Minister of Canada Canada's Lucky and I mean really lucky he gets to have a John Crosby in his cabinet. One not too. That's how former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney began a tribute tribute to his late friend and colleague in Saint John's earlier today dignitaries and politicians of all stripes including Justin Trudeau and former prime minister. Joe Clark gathered for Mr Crosby state funeral in the provincial capital. Mr Crosby served as a cabinet minister under both Mr Clark and Mr Maruni at the podium. Brian Mulroney honored his friends fierce advocacy. Not only for his province but for his country as a whole and he offered up a tentative impersonation of John Crosby in this story about the the birth of CBC Newsworld commentators have discussed the crosby sense of humor. Funny I never saw any of it so here. We are at another Cabbie batmobiles a little while later and the Minister of communications came in with a project to create the new instrument called Newsworld and to fund it with a further grant to the CBC saw. The debate went around the cabinet table and finally John put up his hand now. I can't imitate them but I'm going to try. What the Hell you put up his hand and you know many of you know that when he was trying to make an important point he closed his eyes so I knew it was going to be important because both of them were bat shot so he puts up his hand and he said Prime Minister? May I say something I said. Sure John what is it he said as I understand it we are presently giving the CBC a billion million dollars a year so they can savage us eighteen hours a day. Is that right Prime Minister I said well John is just about right and he said this I understand we are going to create an instrument called newsworld and we are going to give the CBC another two hundred million dollars so they can savage usque twenty four hours a day. Is that right prime minister. I said well I think Soja you said we'll prime administer. I'm GonNa need your help. You're a very smart man and you're a great speaker prime minister you're very eloquent. I WANNA ask you to to come with me to Newfoundland and speak to the good people of Newfoundland to convince them a little bit because they have never heard of anything thinks oh stupid in their entire lives so I said John if it's okay I'll pass on that trip former prime minister Brian Mulroney speaking earlier today at the state funeral for Newfoundland politician. John Crosby Mr Crosby died on Friday. He was eighty eight. You've been listening to the as it happens. podcast our I show can be heard Monday to Friday on. CBC Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the web this Goto. CBC DOT DOT CA slash. Ah and follow the links to our online archives. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off and I'm Chris. How for more C._B._C.? PODCASTS GO TO C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
Protests! Peaceful & Violent added to Covid -19 puts America on edge. Looting&Healing Weed Talk News
"We are pro cannabis media. I want them to week talk news. I'm Jimmy Young, the founder of pro cannabis, media and I'm curt Dalton the founder of cannabis dot net another crazy week in the world of cannabis. But mostly, it's been a crazy week in the world card with protests from coast to coast and sure enough cannabis dispensaries right in the middle of it. Yeah, it's a shame. Lot of dispensaries got looted by people that were obviously not Thinking of local businesses and who owned them because a lot of these dispensaries or some of them were minority owned African, American owned, and it's a real shame that people just smash and grab all the way from iphones to pre rolls. And in fact, you know it's funny while we talk about the cannabis stores in some of them being minority owned here in the Boston area as well as over in La Kurt. What I've taken away from these protests is the diversity of the protesters for the most part. These have been peaceful protests only ruined by a couple of knuckleheads who show up at the end to cause trouble. Absolutely and that's kind of how goes is that you'll have a peaceful protests when the sun goes down when there's night hooligans as we'll call them or people that are more maliciously intent trauma start causing problems with public property and injuring people, and it just gives that whole area bad name and it's it's it's it's awful. Now in California I, understand that the looting actually shutdown. Bed Ben's operation. Yeah I think they were looted that first night and then they close dispensaries. Dispensaries after that first night, as we're not opening for a while and if you're looking for a smash and grab and you're one of those people. At why not go get a bunch of weed it makes sense as opposed to people are stealing apple stuff for their tracking, all the iphones that were stolen. So it's just a real shame and it's a it's a powerful Rican America in American history and the systematic racism that we saw this week that exists in the. Justice system also applies to the cannabis system and and the disproportionate amount of minorities in jail for cannabis offenses especially now that it's legal so hopefully. You know we can start a a talk. We wrote an article a normal came out with a similar article saying illegalizing cannabis is a step in the right direction based on the criminal history of of cannabis who's in jail for it. And and it's really interesting because you talk about the disproportionate amount of injustices against those have been most impacted by the war on drugs but it's also with the covid nineteen virus that more people of color are coming down with this horrible disease as well. Again, another example of the powered privilege of of US old white guys, which is you know I'm not a big fan of how the how we have acted towards the black person in this country not just in the last week not just in the last month, not in just less decade but for hundreds of years at now it's it's bubbling to. The surface and the frustration and anger, and unfortunately those those few that have disrupted. This has also impacted us here in the Boston area where we originate that we talk news program at our friends down at pure oasis. The first in city operated cannabis dispensary was also looted and about one hundred, thousand dollars. Worth of stuff was taken from them and you know what else does Koby Evans and Kevin Hart. The to hundreds of bureau ACIS really have to go through. Do you want to write a book? The first one hundred days of their operations been pretty amazing after waiting for four years just to open. In the fact they have such a good attitude and issued that statement to give to this other will be okay. We'll survive give to this other charity was great. Out The Evans posted. We are grateful and overwhelmed with the outpouring of support from all over the country. So many people have asked how they can help, but at my pure oasis will be okay. If you want to help consider donating to a worthwhile cause at Haley House Haley House, Dot Org. So again, B.'s owners and not just bureau Isis other owners of stores in Boston that got looted and vandalized like. The Concept Store and their owner Tareq Hassan as put out a notice as well, and he's trying to actually create this world cod called a racism that's e racism. The removal of existence of the belief that one race is superior to other an organization that is committed to putting an end to racism is this racism. So perhaps again, good perhaps some good movements coming out of some really times in our country. I'm will tell here in the next weeks months, and I hope it doesn't act as a catalyst not only for criminal justice reform, but maybe cannabis reform as well. Since those are two areas where minorities have not been given a fair shake for like you said decades so. The. I I, leave the country. So talker. And what about De de Boer chart because Deborah Chart has the rest of this story and how it has impacted cannabis business in her weekly remarked market report. Thanks Kurt Jimmy it's been a rough week for our country as peaceful protests spark looting in some cities. Several dispensaries were targeted in the mayhem as many as forty three stores said, they had looting in California. But there was also retail operations in Oregon Illinois Pennsylvania, and York that said they experienced robberies as well. Many of these publicly traded companies had closed their stores in response to the looting and I'm sure we're going to see that reflected in the sales numbers in the quarters coming up. Smoking. Accessories, e commerce, Brand Green Lane Holdings reported falling revenue for the first quarter ending in March net sales fell thirty two percent to thirty three point nine, million in the first quarter of two, thousand twenty that's versus forty nine million for the same time period in twenty nineteen green lane blamed the drop on the FDA's restriction on the sale of certain products primarily mint flavor jewel. Well despite market challenges. Acreage. Holding secured sixty million dollars in funding and balanced grow work secured forty million funding. So there's still some money rolling around out there. Another sign that capital strings are loosening up clever leads said, it would list on the Nasdaq. Of the Schultz SPAC and that's a special purpose acquisition corp and that's it. For this week I'm Debra from the greenmarket report for we talk news. Thank, you deborah onto north of the border to our friends in Oh Canada and there's an interesting report put out by the Bedford Consulting Group there's a leading executive search firm in Canada and they look at the entire Canadian cannabis industry and they looked at the compensation levels by some of the top companies like jewelry acreage and Sinisa and sure enough till raise Brendan candidate Kennedy led the League if you will thirty one point eight, million dollars in compensation Canadian dollars at ninety seven percent of that is an options or in stocks they also have the figure of the former Canadian prime minister here Brian Mulroney with twelve point nine, million in compensation from kidney. From Acreage Holdings. So you know Kurt Once again, we're seeing some of the. Horror, stories but the realities of the cannabis industry in the first. Few years of it, whereas a lot of these executive members and a lot of these boards, all dominated by men are getting high salaries especially in comparison with some of the rank and file below them. You surprised by this at all. Yeah, looking at their report Jimmy came out in October as we know, there's been some price changes on the stocks. Now, whether those executives actually exercise those options, they hit a strike price or you know the that could be a lot lower number. Now I think the really interesting part was I believe only eight percent of the C. Suite, our female, and as of October I think eleven percent. Of Board members were female. So I you know that sock strikes and options that can fluctuate a lot but the work to be done to get more females and women into the boardrooms into the executive levels of cannabis for sure and I actually think that's happening here in the United States. But for the rest of the Canadian story, let's go to M j Biz dailies international reporter. Solomon. Israel. I'm Solomon Israel from marijuana business daily International, and this is the we'd Talk News, Canadian Cannabis report. Cannabis Industry Behemoth Canopy Growth Corporation posted a disappointing fourth quarter with its Canadian recreational canvas revenue shrinking even as the country's cannabis sales growing all-told canopies net loss for the quarter was one point three, billion Canadian dollars canopy executive said the next fiscal year will be a transition year accompanied reshapes its business strategy and disgraced Canadian cannabis cultivator can trust has had some of its collateral cannabis production licenses reinstated by Canada's cannabis regulator. Those licenses were suspended last year after can't trust was caught growing cannabis in unlicensed areas a licensed facility, but can't trust is still waiting to get another lights restored and says, it's not sure when it will be able to. Sell Cannabis again accompanied remains in creditor protection. In the wake of the scandal, you can read all those stories and more at MJ business daily. Dot. COM, that'll do it for this week's we talk news Canadian report I'm Sullivan Israel now that corona virus has wiped out in person conventions. Jay? Bilas. Khan is putting on to online events from June twenty nine to July I m J, Biz Khan direct and the hemp industry daily. Conference direct. Both events will feature industry speakers and exhibitors, and you will be able to communicate directly to them in the state of the art online event. You can register today at Mj Biz, conference dot com that's M.. B. Is e conference DOT COM. That's a great report from Solomon up in Canada. Thank you very much. Let's go to Phil Adams Volt Pro Pot for our DC. Update. Hi Folks. This is Phil Adams from vote pro podcast here with this week's we've talked news report. New Jersey Senator and one time presidential candidate. Cory Booker is citing systemic racial disparities within the US criminal justice system regarding among other things the disparate enforcement of. Las Against Minorities. Booker pointed to government data shows quote. Is. No difference between blacks and whites for using the drug. Blacks were four times more likely to be arrested for it and quote. Booker is currently sponsoring legislation to legalise cannabis on the federal level. The National Cannabis Industry Association filed an amicus brief this week in support of harborside health center, one of the oldest and most respected cannabis companies in America. Harborside is challenging the application of a decades-old permission of the tax code passed during the Reagan administration's war on drugs to combat criminal drug prices. The NCAA brief contends that irs code to eighty prevents the legal cannabis industry from taking the standard business deductions enjoyed by other industries resulting in exorbitant tax rates of up to seventy five percent and impeding the normal operation of legal cannabis markets. Harborside has appealed of ruling in the night circuit of the US Court of Appeals. A majority of adults from states where cannabis is legal, say legalization has been success. According to polling data compiled by YouGov, a majority of respondents in California, Colorado Illinois Maine Massachusetts Nevada Michigan, and Washington state remain positive about their states cannabis legal reforms. Normal Deputy Director Paul Montana said the polling data quote reaffirms that most voters do not experience buyer's remorse following marijuana legalization and quote. That's this week's. News, from the nation's capital I'm Phil Adams from vote pro podcast. While I can certainly report that the two adults on this show believed that legalization in Massachusetts has worked however at today's meeting of the cannabis control, commission, you know Kurt, they've opened up curbside pickup here in the Bay State for adult use recreational users. But now they're talking about and I'm saying they the Cannabis Control Commission is talking about the definition of what premises because there was discussion of whether or not a parent can pick up adult use cannabis with a child in the car what is the definition of premises and does it extend to the curb? That's a great point. I think if this actually went to a supreme court level, the dispensaries or the. Sorry the Massachusetts government would lose because during noncovic types, you could obviously not bring a child into a dispensary, but you could leave the child in the car. They're thirteen fourteen on their IPAD or whatever. So does premises extend to a parking lot and as you said, if it's curbside and you're literally on a public street dispensary has no claim on that legally to control that space. So if if I ever went that far I think they would lose legally while we're probably not going to get there as far as. It will be what the Candidates Control Commission decides. I don't see where if like you said, you can get alcohol has stayed open and I'm pretty sure you get a drizzly delivery deputy, your car Why couldn't a child in the back seat buckled up and you're getting your bag handed to you Guys try and why not take the opportunity to talk to your children about these adult use products, alcohol and cannabis I'm the. Responsible Use and responsible parenting. That's the issue here and educating the public and again, I don't think that the candidates Control Commission even though they think they're little campaign worked perfectly that little public service campaign about it was good. I'm not a big fan of it. I think there's more education that has to be done by parents about these adult use chronics just opinion and you know I'm never afraid of. Modern Day reefer madness right. So if you walk back theory not having a child in the car seeing a bag covered come in the fear is though like what you're getting in that bag is so awful awful for a child to be around or see they should not be in the car. So where's that even come from wait a minute timeout rate there whether you why should Mitch Child? Like you said educate talk about let alone is completely childproof bag go walking out with a big Bush of sativa handing it to yourself what a strange version of reefer madness child should be in the car if a bag is put through the window. and. What if your child and I I'm pretty good at turning back the clock getting my inner child. If you're told not to do something Kirk, you're the father of a few kids. What do you when you tell your kids not to do something? What are they trying to do? they immediately want to know what's in the back. So I think the more you say mom or dad has to go out weight with your aunt or weight with your father that it will where she go. Why can't I go? Why? Why do I have to hope I now you open up a Pandora's box question so you know they're trying to appease the. Government here is not a fan he didn't. Are. Open to begin with but he had to the tax money's great but it's just stupid stuff like this. That makes you roll your eyes at Massachusetts over and over. But we love the bay stay. Don't we know Kirk it's always interesting around here to talk about also the thing politics, what are the elements I? It was politics, sports and revenge wasn't that it was on those three things are all we always talk about Massachusetts setting up to be an east coast hub in there just bumbling along luckily maids bobbling worst they've had recreational for two years. They have it opened up one store, but it really is the blind leading the blind on the east coast as far as really taking a aggressive stand and being open about it and becoming a center. And that's why it's a whole new world of weed out there. Isn't it Kurt S? So for Kirk Dalton I'm going to do it this time for Kurt Dalton for cannabis dot net I'm Jimmy Young from pro cannabis media you've been watching we talked news. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening this week. We talk now we talk news and in the weeds, a role available on most major podcast distributors like high to spotify Google play and our friends at Sealand s media, Dot Com and our flagship cannabis dot net. So subscribe share and like our videos on all the social media networks out there including Lincoln Twitter Instagram facebook the we'd tube and Youtube. We talk and in the weeds are two productions of pro cannabis media supported by revolutionary clinics. One of the top medical cannabis dispensaries in the Massachusetts area now with three locations in greater. Boston to in Cambridge and one on. Broadway, in Somerville Rev Clinics has a patient first mission they will customize your needs as a medical patient with the proper titrate and combination of strains, flavors and products read clinics where the patient comes first. We are pro cannabis media.
Meet the dad who quit his job to save the earth
"Today's big story is brought to you by. Rbc's my adviser an online service offered at no additional cost. That can help you get your finances in shape and plan for the future and we will have a little story for you later about how Canadians are trying to do that. In case you haven't heard the kids are pretty mad at the GROWNUPS. Many Canadian news are no longer leaving it up to politicians alone to solve the issue of climate change. Many are taking the fight. Themselves things going downhill and to make it go back up. We need to do something about it. Our future being ruined because of like everybody else not caring about the climate. They want to do something not to not to debate it. They just want action right now. In that way that only kids can insist upon just as past generations of children. Were afraid that nuclear war or the hole in the ozone layer would end the world before they got to enjoy it. These kids feel like they're watching their future slip away. So what are we doing? And I don't mean. Are we recycling? Are we eating beyond meat? Are we doing whatever do? Our part thing is making news this week. What are adults doing to help kids? Who are scared. That climate change is stealing their future. Well at least a few of them are headed right to the frontlines and today's guest is one of them. Jordan Heath Rawlins. This is the big story in another life. Joshua Ostro was a reporter journal. He's not anymore. I Joshua Hi. Thanks for having problem. Why don't you start by telling us what the end of the world looked like to you when you were a child? I grew up in a border town on the West Coast South Vancouver and I was pretty sure that we were going to die in a nuclear holocaust. Yeah I was born in seventy five So I kinda became aware of the world in the early eighties. I remember doing a report for school where I literally cut out maps of the US and the USSR and hand drew nuclear bombs flying back and forth and then wrote about what happened with Rocha which was a one megaton bomb and talking about how Reagan at the time was building hundred megaton bombs and so this was like a real fixation of mine on partly because there was nuclear submarines in the water near our house and because we were so close to Seattle which has been Naval Base. And so there's also a lot of anti nuclear protests that were happening in. Vancouver at the time. Big Like hundred thousand more than one hundred thousand people crowds other. My parents would take me on and so these are kind of like among my earliest memories are like marching against the apocalypse. Very common not anxiety inducing it all for a child. Yeah but it's just was how things were yeah in the eighties and it's it's always made me wonder like when people freak out about terrorism now you know as bad as terrorism is were worried about a car or a knife or a gun but we were literally in the eighties worried about the end of humanity and that would be the end of humanity and kind of like an instant in a flash and how does that compare to how a your child and other kids have anxiety about the end of the world today. Yeah so what we have. Right now is a slow motion apocalypse. And it's making kids anxious. A lot of it is because they think about the future a lot more than adults can kind of get in their own heads and we're very concerned about the present The kids are constantly wondering what their features are going to be like. And they're really freaked out that the GROWNUPS are supposed to be taken care of things and taking care of them. Aren't doing anything about this future that they keep hearing about this climate crisis that is coming and that all the stories we keep getting about it. Just get worse and worse and it doesn't feel like the people who are supposed to be in charge of the world doing really anything kind of concrete about it. Is that more or scary. Do you think than kids in the eighties. And I was one too worried about imminent nuclear catastrophe. it's hard to say whether it's more or less scary. They're worried about their futures. I was a kid. I was worried about my present rate. You know like I thought that this could literally happen anytime. It was very much in the pop culture of the time there was songs in movies and TV shows the day after was TV movie. That really kind of traumatized me as a child and a lot of the climate change stuff is still a little esoteric even for kids. They know something bad is coming. The Amazon was on fire. They just said thirty percent more fires this year than last year Siberia. The Arctic was on fire last summer. You know the floods that are happening these extreme weather events. So maybe they're able to like see those a little bit more whereas adult or dismissive and like Oh these things happen. But they don't actually always happened. They certainly don't always happen with this sort of frequency but I think adults are better at putting that putting these nightmares aside. We'll tell me what you did when you realized the kind of anxiety that kids today are having about climate change Well I quit my job and I took a new job. How did that come to be so I had gone to none of it the previous fall. It wasn't a climate change story but it kind of gave me a real grass spun on the changes that are happening because the Arctic is warming at a faster rate than the rest of the world There's a real concern about what's going to happen when the ice melts What's GonNa Happen to the people what's going to happen to the species and being an Arctic as you can see a picture of the northern lights and it's the same as looking up and seeing And so it's the same thing you know we're candidate we define ourselves by being the great white north but we're not we're all huddled along the border and so actually seeing this place that is going to be changed irrevocably kind of started up a little bit of anxiety in me and then In that next January started working for. Cbc Kids News and This was a really amazing job. I have a child who's nine at the time and so this was kind of in his age group. I thought I was going to be explaining grownup news to kids but what happened was kids became the news while I was there. How well the first thing that I was asked to do was Find some kids to do some reporting on To tell stories about and so I discovered Greta. Thune Berg who I was not at that point familiar with the global superstar that she is today So this was January so discovered her and discovered mother who was the first climate striker outside of Europe. an eleven year old. She's twelve now up in Sudbury and because of that. I decided to cover the first global climate strike. Thought it'd be a good kid story. So I went with a camera person we kind of embedded with these kids for the day. Nobody ended up really covering that story. the Christ. Church shooting happened the same day so Went to cover. That and people didn't really expect the numbers that would end up turning out so that Martha was about one point. Six million kids In cities and countries around the world that came out and just being around these kids these elementary school kids who were so honest and open about their fears and so disappointed in grownups for not doing anything about it and one thing that really struck me there. Was this girl. Zoe who said kids are really big on fairness right fairness is super important and they they were talking about how it's not fair. That kids can't vote and that grownups need to be taking care of them. And that they're not and the GROWNUP deciding their future and they're not doing it. Good enough and so that was kind of a you know a really impactful thing when I was there with them even more. So in the edit suite when I was putting the rough cut together and kind of going over all the footage and you know going through some of Greta speeches and I started getting Emotional in a way that I wasn't really used to in public A little bit right now to be honest So weird anxiety that I have and so I just kept going on and covering stuff and then. Cbc was doing a big series called in our backyard and So I was put on the editorial board for that kept having all these experts come in the scientists and insurance actuaries and all these other people coming in and explaining what the situation wants to give a story ideas and so you know things but knowing things is not the same thing as knowing things right we have so much information available to us in this age that we have all this like low level information about everything right when you start getting high level information it can be really kind of disturbing when you find out that actually the climate models are wrong often but not but because they're too conservative yeah because scientists are generally conservative. They don't WanNA overshoot so they'd rather say low so when you end up getting like the permafrost in the north melting seventy years ahead of schedule. That's where the problem is. Everything's actually worse than We think it is and I found a website that looked at sea level rise based on the temperature increase. I'm from a beach town. So you can go on the map and find any place in the World Bank and you can watch your tensing so you move it along from zero to half a degree to one degree so when we get to two degrees crescent beach is gone and so that was really kind of disquieting that we did another story where we interviewed a scientist at University of wealth called Merit Trotsky Who kind of took us through all the different ways that candidate is going to change within the lifetime of kids today. My Kid your kid if we don't do anything you know there's high low medium emission scenarios but if we stay on track that we're on which is not a good track. Everyone's missing their targets and We're on track currently for three point two when we need to be one point five. Yeah it's a big difference And she kind of took us through all the different ways the the deadly heat waves of the death tolls that are going to be happening in cities like Toronto Montreal. The flooding that's going to be happening on the coast the droughts and desertification in the southern prairies all the melting in the complete destruction of way of life that has been going on since time immemorial in the north and the forests. Nbc eventually will burn down into grasslands. Because that's what happens. You have a thing called extreme fire weather. It's what's happening in Australia Climate Change doesn't start fires but it creates conditions that allow right creates higher temperatures increase drier conditions. Nbc You have the problem with the Pine Beetle which also climate related which is basically just putting tinder in the forest when a lightning strike. Hits it or you know a camper with a cigarette You get these fires which lie. Nbc We had the big fires in two thousand seventeen in two thousand eighteen was there. I mean that's a long west of it's good. That was a long list of of kind of a gradual transformation. Do you remember a moment in particular when a switch flipped for you in terms of making a decision to go from reporting doing? And what was it that triggered that so in? May there was a second global climate strike. There'd been a national one in Canada at the beginning of the month and then there was a global when at the end of the month I reached out to kids across the country. 'cause I didn't want to have my coverage toronto-centric and I asked them to go to the National Strike and film each other and asked what their demands were and they sent in one hundred and forty eight videos. They're really powerful. You're just honest. You know kids just honest and so got me thinking like I don't know how much journalism is changing this right. It's a question we ask ourselves a lot. What impacted the CBC in our backyard series? Actually have it came in it? Went on and it's good that it's covered a certain point it all becomes background noise and when it becomes back I mean. It's trump succeeds by flooding the news so that no peace at one piece of news is more important than any other piece of news and then it becomes background noise and you can ignore it. And so the same thing was starting to happen with climate change And then a job opportunity kind of came up I ran into somebody at the top of the tower when my son and I were climbing For the fundraiser. The WWF does every year My son and I have been doing it for years since he was six. And I ran into someone At the top Who was working there and we talked a little bit about what I'd been doing and I explained that I've been covering climate and just into Arctic. And she's like well. We need somebody on those files. why don't you put in a resume and then like a few weeks later? I made a decision And it was. It was very hard decision because I really liked the CBC job you know. I really liked being able to do news. That was aimed at kids. Kids my son's age and covers important topics like we were covering At the same time working for an NGO allows you to be a little bit more on the frontlines of the action. And so one of the first things that I did when I was there with helped. Organize to join the climate strikes in September because the kids were talking about how they want adults to start stepping up and coming up. This podcast will be right back after a really quick message Can you guess the average dollar amount Canadian households have in savings according to the most recent data? It is just eight hundred and fifty two dollars now. The recommended rate of savings in Canada is ten percent and traditionally Canada's historical rate has been around seven point five percent last year though it was one point. Seven doesn't sound like a lot because it isn't it can be hard to save today for people who are often carrying debt. It can be even harder in fact thirty nine percent of Canadians right now of all ages. Don't think they will ever save enough for retirement. So how do you save when there's not much there to start with? Well you need a plan and we'll be back after this episode to tell you how. Rbc's my advisor can help. You get started even if you only have a little you can visit our BBC Dot Com slash advisor to find out more right now or enjoy the rest of this podcast and will be there at the end to tell you more. Did you talk to your son? I guess he would have been almost ten now about that decision about why you're doing it and what you're doing yeah. He knows he's very excited. About listening to this podcast. Kids sometimes have a hard time expressing especially that age. Their feelings I could tell how proud he was. he was very excited to join the climate strike in September. Kids talk about climate all the time kids talk about the environment all the time. What do they say between themselves? You've heard a lot of it. Yeah I mean they are. They're worried they won't grow up that they won't have a place to grow up into. You know. There was one speech from a girl in Vancouver That I got sent from the May- pro- Strikes and she was talking about. She's thirteen and she was talking about how she should be talking with her friends about what they're what they're going to be when they grow up with job. They're going to have how many kids they're going to have what they're going to name them and she doesn't know if that's going to happen. I feel like when when adults have this conversation about you know the quote unquote world. We're leaving behind for our kids. We often think in timelines that are much longer than the reality of the situation that we're creating what kids think of that. What the kids think of the state of the world right now. We're giving them. Kids can have to kind of feelings at the same time right. They're very excited. It snowed and that they can go tobogganing finally and they're scared about what happens but the futures very abstract to a kid. They don't have anything compared to they've only been alive for a few years so they know what's this thing that happens when they're grown ups and that the things that they are enjoying now might not be there anymore. But it's still abstract like a nightmare that you have your member. Id Talk to them about that. How do you talk to your son about we talk about the little things that we can do? And it's cheating a little bit because this is an individual problem. Yeah and to be honest. The industry Wants us to make it an individual problem? They want to blame the consumer so that we don't punish the producers so that they can continue to make money and this is a collective decision One of the things in my article was about how my dad was in a environmental theater troupe called the ozone players which is funny yeah It was embarrassing at the time. Obviously but what's amazing about? That is that we fixed the ozone layer problem. Mostly right what happened was there was a whole. We figured out what was causing the whole. It was chlorofluorocarbons. The World came together in Montreal past the Montreal Protocol and band. Cfc's and as time goes on the whole has been repairing itself and if we had said Girls Stop Hairspray your hair. Which was a big thing in the eighties? If they voluntarily did that it would not fix the problem. Yeah we only fixed the problem because all the world leaders came together and by the way the world leaders at the time was like Margaret Thatcher. Ronald Reagan and Brian Mulroney. It wasn't a bunch of left left E. Pinkos that decided to do this. It was conservatives largely that came to say well. Here's the problem. Here's how we fix it. Let's fix it together. Boom they fixed. Do you remember leaded gas at some point? They're like leaded gas is bad for everyone. So we're GONNA ban it we're going to have a transition you're gonNA have a gas stations that offer both for a limited time so that people can get new cars and then it's just going to be gone. You can't get it anymore so we've seen examples of how we can deal with carbon emissions but still after all this time we're not doing anything and the last. Cop was a failure. There's two reasons that that I wanted to talk to you about this. I is because you've done reporting work with kids who can speak directly about it but second because as we talked about you did something different. You took what you were doing and you made a change and you change what you do for a living. How has that impacted your your anxiety or your your fear for the future. Has It helped? Yes yeah it has helped I mean I. I'm still anxious as you could hear like my voice cracks on occasion. Only when we're talking about kids though like that is still like this exact trigger. Yeah but I feel like I'm doing something not just informing people although my job as an editorial specialist is still informing people but I'm working directly with scientists and we're not just trying to get the word out where working With government were working with businesses. Were trying to get a change happened. We're trying we're looking at the future and what possible. Climate refuges can exist for animals that are going to be pushed out of their current ranges. We're looking at how climate affects biodiversity as with the animals. That have all been killing us. Show you from the fires as with all the ice dependent species. What's going to happen with them when the ice is gone and we're looking at nature based solutions which is restoring habitats Because trees suck up carbon and if we can put them in the right place and have the right mix it can also not just mitigate climate change but it can help adapting like it can reduce flooding problems and it can help deal with fires and things so every day. I feel like you know. It's hard but I feel like we're trying to do make actual change happen. Not just suggest it. I've been trying to like do self-care by playing video games. The good place and trying to like not fixate too much on climate outside of work hours just for like my mental health expense banks Joshua thanks for having Joshua stuff former journalists now with the World Wildlife Fund that the big story. You want more. You know where to get the Big Story. Podcasts DOT CA also. Find us on twitter at the big story F. P. N. or head to your favorite podcast player. Look US up. Subscribe Rate Five Stars and review. Just so we know who you are and what you think extra listening. I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings. We'll talk tomorrow. Thanks for hanging around. Remember that low low savings rate and the low average dollar amount. Those are the kinds of stats. That can discourage people from saving before they even start. I mean how. Can you plan your retirement when your current savings can barely cover a one way plane ticket? I have been there. It seems hopeless and this is where. Rbc's my adviser comes down. Rbc's my adviser helps you see all your finances in one place even your accounts with other banks. You understand where you currently stand financially in relation to your real goals it also shows you your options and getting to those goals so you can make informed decisions so you start like we said even with just a little you start thinking about your retirement or you can just think about saving for a vacation or for home renovations or for your child's education for helpful advice. You can access a financial adviser in a branch or through live chat all on your terms all at no additional cost. So yeah wherever you are just start head into a branch and asked to try my adviser or visit. Rbc DOT com slash advisor to find out more. It's only at RBC.
The battle for green voters begins
"This is a C._B._C.. PODCAST in the fall of nineteen ninety eight an elderly woman known as the Cat Lady went missing she had a very <hes> very distinctive silhouette and very recognizable and you'd see you're walking into town a handkerchief on her hair long overcoat like somebody that lived on the street. All police could find were her thirty cats shot dead. I always knew something that happened to her D- vanish like that uncover the Cat lady case from C._B._C.. podcasts is available now hi. I'm Michelle Shepherd in for Jamie Whistle. The Canadian election is three months away and the fight for the green vote is on last month. We shared our plan to fight climate change while also creating reading three hundred thousand new good clean jobs that Jagmeet Singh preaching the N._D._p.'s platform of green new deal but what about the Green party well their popularity is searching their winning seats and provincial elections and now they've caught up to the M._v._p.. In the polls some light think its mission impossible to do what's required but we we have crunch the numbers its mission possible. We can do it so here. We have two parties fighting for the same green turf in the next election. Asian is their room for them. Both maybe they should think about cooperating or are mergers in the mix offi Arash has been talking to voters in B._C.. This week for the Huffington post voters there are trying to figure out who to support in this crowded field this this is front burner. Thanks so much for joining us this morning via. Thank you for having me. Let's start with where you are right now in B._C.. And you're with the candidates and you're talking to voters. What are you hearing from them? There is a great deal of disenchantment with the Liberal government whether you're speaking to people on the right of the political spectrum or people on the left the political spectrum a lot of people in two thousand fifteen. I think it's fair to say lent the Liberal Party their vote. They really wanted to get rid of Stephen Harper Liberal majority government who thought it'd be saying that just two months ago conservatives you look at that thirty two percent nationally nationally <hes> they really drop back in Atlanta candidate but on the left side of the political spectrum that you have voters who would describe themselves I think as progressives who believed in the Liberal Party's message they were interested in the Liberal Party Hardy's centre-left platform lot of new Democrats lent the Liberals or vote twenty fifteen election will be the last using I passed the post the environment and the economy they go together like paddles and canoes sunny ways my my friends so those people though now are looking at the Liberals record and they are either really unhappy about electoral reform or on climate and climate is really big issue. They feel a liberal government has let them down. The Trans Mountain pipeline expansion attention is a vital strategic interest to Canada. It will be built if you believe and the I._P._C. Report. This is the U._N.. report that came out last fall that says that we basically only have twelve years to you avoid catastrophic climate change then you probably are trying to square a carbon tax with buying a pipeline and a lot of those voters and EP and potential Greens are saying we don't WanNa vote liberal again. I'm intrigued intrigue that a lot of this seems to have benefit the Green Party obviously the one that's been most advocating for environmental reforms and if feels like there's this rise that they've been across the country that they've been winning provincial seats. Can you give us a bit of a recap of where they're at and what you think they've accomplished capitalizing on this this movement right now and somebody's I guess you could argue that. What we're seeing now is kind of the orange wave that seemed to be building in the lead up to the two thousand fifteen election in the sense that Rachel not least government in Alberta had been elected? Change has finally come to Alberta the M._v._p.. Federally were ecstatic and it seems like the option for change. The Anti Harper option was <hes> galvanizing around the M._v._p.. Of course we know that's not what happened the M._V._p.. There well under twenty percent. They're back to where they used to be free twenty eleven days that the green seemed to have momentum on their side. They've elected Greens in many parts of the country of course N._B._C.. Here they hold the balance of power there no coalition government with John Horgan's and EP government for Green Party announced it would back new Democrats in the legislature paving the way for an end. To sixteen years of liberal rule most recently were the official opposition in Prince Edward Island. There are Greens in New Brunswick Caucus Rena Malaise. We will do what he will be shaking things up and the Greens elected an M._p._p.. In Wealth in Ontario I'm ready to take my sita Queens Park so there seems to be across the country. Provincially the Greens are making inroads that was going to say. Do you think that'll carry over federally though well what it does help the party with Federal Party is is hoping that they can benefit from is focused areas of strength so there are opportunities for the Greens perhaps more than ever before and we see not in polling that they're doing much better than they ever have frankly the raising more money than they ever have but I wanted to add like an asterix while we're staying all these wonderful things about the Greens the end ep when they were basically at the same fundraising level and at the same area of polling we were saying that the end ep was on its deathbed and boy was that ever troubled for the end ep so take that with the grain of salt right like they're doing a lot better than they ever have but there is no majority green in government in the polls year right right. How close are the two parties? The Greens are obviously up in the polls the end EP or down but are they running neck and neck. I mean what's the real competition there well. It depends which pool you look at Michelle so just earlier this week then Nana's <hes> Nanos research poll had the M._v._p.. At nineteen percent and the Greens at eight whereas the Angus Reid had the M._v._p.. At Fourteen and the Greens at ten I mean basically what we're looking at our trend lines. The Greens means our polling far above weather normal goodyear seven eight percent there have been in the double digits which is kind of unheard of and the end EP has been I in some polls as low as single digits they they are close and they're fighting voters who are tend to be quite similar so it's fair to see that there's some cannibalizing going on here and what is happening with the M._v._p.. The same indicators that suggests that the Greens are doing well suggests that the doing badly I mean that's going to the bad media. New Democrats are really frustrated with journalists who are suggesting that losing seats six months out that has to worry you leave. It's hard not at all I mean there's things that we can learn from by-elections but the only election they count and this is the general election but you know like the end ep in the last quarter of two thousand fifteen when the ramp up through spending they pulled in close to two million dollars one point nine seven million I think it was the Greens pulled in one point five million and then we wrote about how like Oh this was like a breakthrough for the Greens because they'd never raises money whereas whereas like the N._d._p.'s in trouble we don't actually have clear sense of what their financial picture is because they have not given their annual report two thousand eighteen to elections candidate. They were granted an extension but what the party is told me is that they a are still generally spending more money than they're bringing in when the report will be released it will show that they are a little two point six million dollars in debt. They still owe that money from the two thousand fifteen campaign they've had to remortgage well mortgage actually the building basically unions gave them money before we change the election rules in two thousand four and they purchased this building downtown which they've had to put up as collateral to get alone for this next election campaign things are not going well. They're not <hes> engaging in fundraising at the same level as other political parties the end EP spin on that is that over different that being said you know when the only fundraiser you've had a typical ticketed fundraiser has been for twenty five dollars whereas Justin Trudeau and Andrew Sheer your are doing sixteen hundred dollar fundraisers in an election year. You probably do want to raise as much money as you possibly can and I know we went to before coming on. We went to their website to see when the next fundraising event was the M._v._p.. And it just simply says there are no fundraising events planned <hes> beyond what they say that they're not about this. They don't want to do it that way. There has to be more behind that as to why there's no effort for fundraising. What did you find out well? I mean the party does not want to say how any fundraising events of the leader has taken pardons. He became leader on October first two thousand seventeen. There isn't that much data that one can look at to see how much money they're actually pulling in but they're not raising that much money. They say that what happens some DP events is they will ask people for donations. When you have like a group meeting or whatnot like I was at spen- Robinson who's the former M._p.? Now candidate in burnaby north see more of his campaign launch and they did like can open call like who can give us a thousand dollars Mook and give us eight hundred dollars and while they were a few hands but you know when they got two hundred dollars quite a few hands right so fundraising is done in different ways but the overall health of. The Party and the real really the fact that they had to put the building up as collateral and that they're still paying off their two thousand fifteen campaign debt the there were rumors running around Ottawa that then ep wasn't even going to have a regular leaders campaign that there weren't GonNa Charter harder clean and the party was really quick to put those rumors duress no no he will have an official campaign but those things are really expensive and that's one of the reasons why they need to go to the bank and say hey we need some more money <hes> and then you have you know the fact that according to the caucus at least a quarter of the caucus not running again so there is a lack of incumbency advantage and you have a leader that frankly is really unpopular. You know it's really not <hes> things are not going well for the end ep well in fact Thomas Mulcair the previous sweeter of the M._v._p.. Set on T._V.. That he thinks progressive voters may abandon his party for the Greens. Mr Sing has now decided he's going to support a liquefied natural gas pipeline so people who believe that environmental issues should be top of mine are worried about what type of society in world. We're GONNA leave to our children grandchildren. They're kind of start paying attention to Elizabeth as Green Party. Thomas Mulcair. I think has an extra at the moment with the he's a little bit ep well. Yeah I mean no political leader ever in Canadian history was beheaded the way politically that he was with getting forty eight percent of support fifty two percent plus have said they WANNA leadership convention. Go tell you that there were times kind of felt like public hanging from the election. Obviously is something that we're now going to be able to leave behind us with a change at the helm and that's fine. I think a lot of people in the end EP are actually having buyer's remorse like they were really upset that the end ep ran campaign that was seen as being to the right of the liberals the last election and so I think Mr Mulcair well sometimes you make is really great points a does you know have a little bit of an agenda and I think we need to look at that from that angle that being said I think it is possible if voters droves who are unhappy with the end EP leader and just tired or don't see a reason to vote and EP in the writings they may go green. I think the Greens also have <hes> they're not just seen as an option for new Democrats but you know I met a bunch of conservative voters is who told me that they think they're gonNa vote green this time that they voted liberal in two thousand fifteen just because they want to get rid of Harper. They're more to the rights but hey why not give Elizabeth may chance <music> so as a strategy if the M._v._p.. Is recognizing that Jagmeet Singh is not there. Most popular leader is part of their strategy to go after the Green Party in a way that we are watching this rise of the Green Party and perhaps the M._v._p.. Is Looking at it as pulling votes away from them. <hes> I think it was Shawntel Baron Toronto Star she wrote that it was the rise of the Green Party that she sees as a mortal threat to the and DP. I think you can clearly see that the M._v._p.. Is struggling not to be in contention for government is it wasn't the last election but to hold on enough seats to retain official party status in the House of Commons and knocked led the Greens become the so-called green conscience of the house of comments. Do you think that's fair. Absolutely I think especially like I've been N._B._C.. For about two weeks now and you can sense it just speaking to the candidates how oh they fear that the threat to them comes from the green. There is a lot of overlap between the two political parties if you think the I._p._C._C. report is like a call for change that really need to take bold action when you look at both parties. These platforms are actually quite similar. They boats ingest federal government action that would try to get us to one point five degree Celsius warming rather than the trajectory that we're on at the moment with big bull change all experts have made it clear the future energy source for our planet cannot be fossil fuels that has to be renewable energy start with the essential step of making sure that all the electricity we use comes from renewable energy. You know the Greens platform is far more detailed than the M._v._p.. Platform but the N._D._P.'s message at the doors is while we need to do big bold action but we also can't forget workers which obviously resonates with a lot of new Democrat voters but there is definitely a sense of the two parties or kind of cannibalizing each other. I'd say the end EP has become far more progressive and attacking the Greens not just in what the candidates are saying but also in terms of their social media presence like you've had a couple of and EP M._p.'s take it go. I'd Elizabeth May for when she talked about Canada being energy independence as we move off fossil fuels we should only be using Canadian fossil fuels till twenty fifty. The Democrats are suggesting that Oh that means building a new pipeline to eastern candidate which obviously is very unpopular popular in Quebec and that the Green Party leader in Quebec came out and said Hey. I don't support this. I think it's very important for Greens. All across candidates take a clear position against the Alberta Tar Sands. It's an oil that <hes> that comes out of there that is much more rehouse. Host gas emission intensive than conventional oil has since changed what she's saying on that to say no. We don't need to use Alberta oil. We can use Newfoundland's oil firm Hibernia to make us energy dependent out east but there's it's definitely a sense of the two parties are more aggressive towards each other especially from the end ep be more aggressive with regards to the Greens and the N.. P. Not only has to like watch. It's like left flank to make sure that the Greens are not coming up certain writings but also across the country where it's possible voters decide that they're going to give something else to try but is there room for both of these parties you know you see in various op-eds and calmness have been talking about even having a merger between the two who or candidates run strategically but in practice. That's really not what we're seeing. It's they're digging in and going after each other. Where do you think that's GonNa go well? It could go to help elect conservative government which is what the conservative certainly are hoping for like. Why would why doesn't seem like a discussion? That's being had between nodes or not. I mean at the moment it's probably too early to have discussion on the left about merging these tea parties the partisans seasons in the M._v._p.. And the GREENSVILLE argue they are very very different. New Democrats will say that the Greens are not socially progressive enough that they're actually rather conservative. They'll point Elizabeth may working with Brian Mulroney in the eighties. What Mr Mulroney accomplished push for us was huge Elizabeth? <hes> is a Christian earlier comments on abortion or L._G._B._T.. That she's not l._G._B._T._Q.. Friendly enough out I when you have demonstrated that they are that that they are committed to women's rights now ubt rights so women must have access to legal say abortions whenever a woman needs one but those author basically the areas of of attack from the EP the Greens thing that the N._d._p.'s not going far enough and that they're the only party that really has a plan to eliminate fossil fuels completely that their targets are much bolder that they we have detailed plan that is feasible. I mean that they will work in part of the Green. Ethos is that they will work with other political parties like the new Democrats Elizabeth may talks about building a war cabinet address climate change bring and members of all political parties to it kind of focus attention on this one crisis that that she believes the country needs to be obsessed with to the point where are single mission is to make sure that in her words humanity survives and the Greens have a plan to get us there so can they merge the moment. No I mean even when you raise that with new Democrat candidates and green candidates that they think the public will elect them. Everybody thinks that they're going to win right that the public will elect them and then they we'll be able to influence the debate. Maybe it's not a majority government. Maybe he's not even a government but maybe it's the balance of power. Maybe they can change the way that what the Liberals Common Policies are. I mean at the end of the day there to parties who on this issue really resemble each other mm-hmm and this is an unfair question because I know it so difficult to predict but with three months to go. Do you see any big game changer any dramatic shocker. That's GONNA come and really change the terrain. Oh I have no idea three months before the two thousand fifteen election you know who had heard of like Alan Kirti who had heard of who sought that the kneecap cab decision was gonNA send the campaign kind of Anna Tailwind in in Quebec. We don't know what's going to happen. Maybe Jagmeet Singh is like a total rockstar and he knocks it out of the part and the debate and people take a second look. Maybe Elizabeth may lands of really vicious attack against the Prime Minister and people you know give new consideration devoting liberals and maybe maybe this is the year to give it to the Greens. Maybe enter sheer surprises. Everybody incomes that with a much stronger climate plan and has all these probably not but you know like you. You never know what's going to happen. We could be talking about a completely different issue in three months. Well thank you so much. We'll continue to watch your reporting leading up to election action. Thanks Michelle was the pleasure and the Liberal Party was also talking up its environmental credit this week. They announced Stephen She bo would be running for them. In Montreal Sheba worked for Greenpeace for ten years and was an anti pipeline activists which might seem unlike a weird fit given that the liberal government bought a pipeline. She both says he thinks he can do more to fight climate change by working inside the party for me. The decision to jump into the political arena is the logical conclusion.
The election is on. A debate looms. Wheres the PM?
"Today is the day that Canada's forty third federal election officially begins and tomorrow. You'll finally get to hear from the people who want to be your prime minister. Oh I know it feels like you've been hearing from those people for months already already but you actually haven't you have been hearing from their speechwriters from the people who do their policy from their ad gurus and from their social media media team. You know what that sounds like a got into politics to help people like the people I serve here in Pano for more than a decade people. Tell me I'm different from the other leaders and I am from coast to coast. I hear the same thing people are getting by but they aren't getting ahead. I I believe the government should work for all of US TV McColl of protecting our children's future so you can get ahead not just get by tomorrow you get them on stage taking questions they've not been briefed on defending their proposals attacking one another directly live all of them in front of a studio audience except not all of them just six days on tell city TV teams up with Mcclain's for the first is leaders debate before the federal election. Justin Trudeau has declined to attend saying he will participate in two dates organized by the leaders debates commission as well as one with a private French language television network so you'll be seeing the people who want to become your prime minister but not the guy who's already got the job. Why isn't Trudeau there. It depends on who you ask but it's not the only debate the prime minister plans to mess and that is certainly a change in the last time around so why are we talking about official debates this time and what are they who chooses them what factors into a leaders choice to make or miss one of the unofficial L. Debates. What should you be looking for from the leaders who are there and will it hurt shootout be off somewhere else campaigning while his rivals attack him live on television and Jordan Heath Rawlings and this is the big story. McCormack McSweeney is our guy on Parliament hill covers the hill four Rogers radio and for city news and he joins us. I Cormac Hey Jordan. How's it going this going very well well. It's almost debate season. It is getting excited so how many official debates are there and how soon and how often do we actually get to hear properly from these leaders in front of a real live studio audience. Well the official debates if you will the ones that were put together by the debates commission set up by the government. There will be only two of them. There will be one in English and one in French and the one in English is taking place on October seventh. The one French is taking place on October tenth and both both of them are happening in the NAP national capital region actually at the Canadian of Museum mm-hmm Canadian Museum of history in in Gatineau just across the river from Parliament Hill and that's where the federal leaders will be squaring off but there is a debate tomorrow night right yes there is so I mean you know we use the term official debates but a AH last election we had a number of different debates and what exactly is official in that way. I just like to say that they're the debates. Those two debates are the ones that are being set up by the debates commission. We also have a number of private media companies who have pitched their own ideas for debates city TV and Mcclain's clains and and city TV as a Rogers property and were owned by Rogers so we'll get that out of the way but city TV Mcclain's do have a debate taking place and it will feature three of the four major party leaders Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is not going to be attending but just like in twenty twenty fifteen the city TV Mcclain's debate. I will be the first out of the gate in this sort of election season we also have a couple of other debates that were pitched etched the munk debates they're going to be hosting one in. Toronto based on foreign policy and and foreign affairs and then Teva which is a Quebec television network they will be hosting one as well but the prime minister will not be at the debate tomorrow. Why not and was he there the last time we did this yes he? He was naturally many believe that his performance in the city TV Mcclain's debate was impressive with better than most people had expected and was a big turning point in the campaign right out of the gate for the Liberals you know in the lead up to the twenty fifteen election campaign pain the new Democrats were the official opposition and under Thomas Mulcair they were seen as the big contenders against Stephen Harper and the Conservatives it wasn't quite quite clear where the liberals would go and in two thousand fifteen the Conservatives said I believe it was one of their campaign staff said to the media that if Trudeau shows up with his pants on he'll have won the debate they sat expectations pretty low for Justin Trudeau and he actually had a pretty decent showing in that debate he you know if it weren't for those lower expectations he might not have been seemed to have been as big of a winner as he actually was out of that but he he showed up with pants on and then some with the with that debate and it really started that momentum for the Liberals and he had a couple of really good clips that did that made the news that really helped the liberals out in the rest of the debates that that continued afterwards and the momentum built from there and they they jumped from third party status to government in one election. which was the first time that's? I believe that's ever happened in Canada so that was a big debate for the Liberals and and yet they've decided not to take part in this one. The reason being given by the Liberals is that they think that there should that'd be only two debates if the reason why they set up the debates commission in the first place and so they felt that the 2015 strategy by the Conservatives creatives was to try and split up audiences to avoid scrutiny and prevent a momentous like moment from happening and to try and stop the opposition parties from having one big debate that would really shift the campaign. They want to get back to those bigger moments. They say that they can reach more Canadians through the official debates because those are run by a consortium of media companies but you know there there remained questions about whether that's true or not in this day and age of of streaming and Internet access across the country almost anybody can watch anything that streamed online but nonetheless on the last that's the reason why the liberal say they will not be attending this city TV Mcclain's debate or or the munk debates but they have however agreed take part in the survey debate which is going to be happening shortly before the the so-called official debates so that's the reason why they say they won't be attending this but there might be more than that you know there are a lot of experts who weighed in on a as to why and some of it might be strategic. One factor is that when you're launching a campaign and you're criss crossing the country. Do you really want to be bogged down by a debate. Prep and taking yourself off the campaign trail. It's a big question to ask and every campaign has to decide whether it's GonNa work for them or not. Clearly all the other party leaders feel that it's going to work for I'm in the they've agreed to do the monk debate as well as the city. TV Mcclain's debate but for the Liberals They don't think that's the best strategy because it does you know especially especially in a shorter campaign. This could be short as the minimum thirty six days. You know it's going to take you off the campaign trail quite a bit and it's GonNa keep you in Ontario which she's a key battleground but for the liberals they wanted to try and hit up. BC and Quebec a little bit more there are others who say that the the prime minister is kind of playing the strategic game that that liberals are accusing the conservative playing in the previous election and trying to make sure that everything works to their benefit so the the least amount of debates means the least chance that the opposition has to really take down the government and they could be more prepared for less debates and this is an incumbent government. The liberals are now empower. They're not the third party Ryan to seek out as much as they can get. They're going to have a much more more guarded campaign to try and protect leader and protect the party's so that they can get reelection so you've kind of alluded to it a couple of times but I want to know more about the leader's debates commission who created who controls it is it controlled by the government and if so how fair is that it was set up by the government and and not necessarily control. It's meant to be an independent commission. That doesn't really have political involvement. It was set up last year by the government up to try and set up these debates in the last in the two thousand fifteen vote we saw the departure of the typical consortium debates and those you know in many elections before that you had a series of media networks sort of team up to host the the two big debates and and typically it was two maybe three debates that were having an election campaign depending on the length and what the Liberals wanted to get back to was that so they set up this debate a commission. They put David Johnston in charge of it. This is the former Governor General somebody who also had had run and moderated some pretty the famous debates in the past he was the moderator for that Info at the famous showdown between Brian Rooney and John Turner and that debate really really did shift the campaign away from the Liberals and John Turner and and really helped helped out Brian Mulroney but nonetheless David Johnson ed up the commission. They got a team together. They looked at the best ways to do this and how to host the debate and they've decided added to bring it in again a consortium of media networks to take part in this and help moderate this debate and we're going to have those two who debates October seventh and October tenth what of the other party leaders or parties in general and saying about the debate commission and the quote Unquote official debates are they happy with them. I I know they might not be happy with the number but are they happy with how that's come together. In general or are there accusations. There haven't been any major accusations. We don't don't have Andrew Scheer in the Conservatives launching campaigns against the debates commission or anything like that I think when they were setting this up there were some questions from some. MP's who were trying to suggest or allude to the fact that maybe the government was trying to set up the debates in their favor but those those criticisms have not been heavily pushed by the opposition parties in in any way whatsoever and I mean it's it's hard for them to you. Try and accused this debates commission of being a partisan leaning commission when you have somebody the former governor general who who was appointed by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the conservative government of the day to be the governor general so you know if you trusted him to be an unbiased intelligent person to be the Queen's representative of our country surely you can trust him to be an unbiased intelligent person to run a debates commission and he's got history at running debates in the past as well so he he did seem like a pretty perfect choice for the job and we didn't see the criticisms really you know really ramp up in any way in the lead up to all of this but the criticisms that the opposition has not about the debates commission. It's about the other debates. It's the city. TV Mcclain's debate the monks debate and the caveat debate and really the biggest issue is not about how these debates are going to be run. It's about WHO's taking part. What's going to happen at those debates when the prime minister is not there. How do you have a debate without him. What would the other party leaders strategy. Maybe going into that debate without a person to take on while I guess they're hoping that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will be a big punching bag and they they will be at every opportunity likely bring up the fact that he's not there to defend his record and he won't be which might be an issue for people who will be watching watching the city TV Mcclain's debate you're going to hear a lot of accusations from the opposition leaders and and they all have their own issues that they want to bash the prime minister about and they'll take every opportunity to do that. I know in conversations with Paul. Wells the moderator of this debate. He said he's not GonNa let any party leader off the hook regardless who who ends up showing up and so he's going to be holding all of them to task if you saw the twenty-fifth debate you know that he did that so as much as you conservative leader Andrew Scheer or Peter Jagmeet Singh or Green Party leader Elizabeth may will be Maybe trying to target the prime minister for not showing up. I think they're going to have to answer for their own policies as well and whether they have shortcomings or whether they could be taking some different strategies to deal with some of the important CNN issues that are facing Canadians They're going to have to answer to that as well so even though you don't have the prime minister that doesn't mean it's not going to be a very informative and very important debate. Let's put it this way as well right now. There's a huge fight for the progressive vote in our country. The End EP and Greens are struggling struggling in the polls when it comes to the overall picture by the end EP really will want to try and take on Elizabeth May and the Greens because right now a lot of the support the MVP is losing is bleeding to the Greens so as much as the Greens are far behind. They're actually seeing a bit of a surge overall from historic support and so so while they're gaining some steam the end EP is at risk of losing more support to the Greens and so- Jagmeet Singh will not just be targeting the prime minister. He'll he'll be targeting Elizabeth. May and both will be targeting Andrew Scheer because they want to be seen as the new progressive alternative to Prime Minister Mr Justin Trudeau and the liberals they're going to be going after all those voters who are disappointed with the Liberals and the last four years who don't think that Justin Trudeau lived up to the promises or at least the hype that they had in twenty fifteen and they're looking for an alternative right now. We haven't seen any single alternative alternative that people are really rallying behind but that could change potentially with debates like the city TV Mcclain's debate so we'll have to see how it plays nope but it's a very interesting dynamic going into it with or without the prime minister involved. What do you want to see from Andrew Scheer and this debate because when I think about the optics of it you know he wants this to be a two person race where he can beat up on Trudeau as much as possible but when he's onstage onstage with two leaders who are way behind him in the polls. Does that make him kind of look like one of a gang as opposed to like be opposition well. That's one of the optics ex that could play into this and possibly one of the reasons why the prime minister decided not to take part in this debate exactly the scenario that you say they are Canadians. Etienne's will see the prime minister off doing whatever he's going to be doing. During the debate or on the debate day and you're going to have the other party leaders all all kind of lumped together and so that's that's something that they'll have to try and make sure they have their media lines ready to go to try and and make sure that they don't look like it's Andrew Scheer as just another one of the opposition members and not prime ministerial. He's going to have to appear prime ministerial on that stage and that's what he's going to want. He's going to have to separate himself from Elizabeth. May and from jug meets sing to try and make sure that that he leaves the best impression with the voters who tune in but at the same time you know there are a lot of questions about conservative policies about the conservative platform coming coming up like all elections journalists and I think a lot of Canadians Wanna dig into some of the details of what these plans are and usually during elections. A lot of the plans as we get from. The parties are kind of vague. They don't have all the details. It's not like they're putting forward piece of legislation where you can sift through every tiny little aspect dove it. You're getting you know sometimes a few paragraphs maybe a page maybe a little bit more than that depending on where the party wants to show its strength breath and there are rightfully so a lot of criticisms for every party when they released their platforms and I think there will be a lot of questions about trying to get some exact details about where the conservative stand on a lot of issues and this goes for the MVP and Greens as well well. Here's the thing so they're going to have to explain their plans and defend their plans. Do we have any sense yet if deciding not to attend. These debates is hurting Trudeau because you know I know that the city Mcclain's debate is put on by Rogers which also which also owns the big story and your radio stations but I don't care who it's hosted by. Oh I the first reaction I had to this was there's a month and a bit before the election. I want to hear from my prime minister and maybe that's just me but it was like a pretty visceral real gut reaction. I have to say Yeah I mean the twenty fifteen election was kind of unique with a number of debates we had we normally don't have that number of debates federally through our elections but I guess depending on how you see it was amazing. It was a good change for our country or you know liberals. I guess yet. They want to move back to less debates. throughout you know politically again. I think there's something to be said about that strategy of keeping a leader on a campaign trail hitting the writings that they need to hit where they're competitive where they need to make sure that they they meet with the locals and and get and leave the best impressions to help some of those candidates and push them over the top but also you want to make sure that you're leaving a good impression on the national stage as well and you're reaching as many Canadians as you can and you know there's a very valid argument to be had that the more debates the better put put your political leaders to the task past have them duke it out over important policy issues that actually matter to Canadians and so there is that debate to be had whether it's going to hurt the prime minister or not. I I mean I guess that remains to be seen in the polling that will be done after the mclane city to debate but in the lead up to this we have not seen any significant impact one way or the other a four the liberals and the Conservatives we haven't really they've been deadlocked for weeks and weeks now at the head of the polls and and so far we we've yet to see them. actually really have a drop or a pickup as a result of this debate debate on my last question is let's. I'd say we do see that. After tomorrow. Night's debate and the polls reflect the fact that Trudeau wasn't there and everybody beat up on him. How firm is the commitment to only only doing the two official debates and the debate? Would you wonder if something would change if he noticed some negative results Zolt. I'm not sure how flexible they'll be to changing their strategy on the debates. it seems like the Liberals are pretty clear and and we won't really have an I don't think there are any proposed debates that are supposed to be taking place after the debate commission debates and so it would it it would take somebody stepping up to propose debate following those for them to reconsider if they needed to but that's a risk as well for the liberals if they have a poor showing in the one one English debate that they're attending and most of Canada is in English Canada and if there's a big problem for the prime minister he'll have to wear hear that until voting day and I'll have to do damage control afterwards. There will be no chance for redemption. I guess if that ends up taking place but but maybe the liberals are calculating. I don't know this but maybe they are calculating that the best damage control will be to get the prime minister on the campaign trail and addressing media on their campaign in plain rather than actually going toe to toe with some of the opposition leaders again but it's a risk. It's a political risk and any time a party decides where they want to take part in in terms of debates. They're always making these political calculations behind these decisions and this is. I guess the risk that the liberals are willing to take. I guess we will see F duck in the public pays off. Thank you Cormac. We will indeed thanks very much appreciate being here. Cormac McSweeney Parliament Hill in Ottawa. That was the big story for more from us. We're at the big story podcast dot. Ca We are also on your twitter quitter. At least we are a few follow US big story. F. PM and we are in your podcast application if you have one and if you're not listening to this on a web browser if you are doing that had an open your favorite podcast application and subscribe for free you get every last one. Thanks for listening Jordan Heath Rowlings. We'll talk tomorrow
The Conservative party needs a new leader. And then what?
"The term conservative covers an awful lot of grant in Canada. There are countless factions that exist under that label regional ideological fiscal and the question at any time is how much these various factions can actually actually agree on right now. There are at least two things first. The approach that the Conservative Party of Canada used in last last year's federal election didn't work and second neither did the leader an unexpected fall from grace for the leader of the official opposition position. I will be resigning as leader of the Conservative Party of Canada months after losing an election. Many thought should have been won by the Conservatives. Andrew Scheer is. He's throwing in the towel so now the party finds itself searching for both a new spokesperson as well as perhaps a new direction which direction and who will do the speaking and just how close to impossible. Will that person's job because if the conservative party he is to have a hope of forming a majority government federal than all those factions need to agree on a lot more than just. Don't do the same thing we did last time. And and that's a lot of tightropes for one person to walk. Whoever it is I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings? This is the big story Bob. Plum Odom is the author of a number of books about the Conservative Party of Canada. He's written about where it succeeded and where it's fallen short. I bought good morning. Why don't you start? I guess Since we're talking about succeeding and falling short Can you explain. Explain a little bit about how it can seem to be so easy for conservatives to win provincial elections but so tough to win a federal what well you know that's It's quite a challenge We can certainly see that federal you. Since the days of Sir John McDonald the Conservative Party has done abysmally on the federal seen sixty eight of the last hundred years have been won by The Liberal Party in fact they call themselves and even conservatives acknowledge that they have become the natural party of government. So you know it is. It is not the norm that conservatives win federally often it's it's either they get the the rare alchemy of of leadership and issue management and they gain confidence of the Canadian people Or more often than not. It's the country is tired of liberal administrations and and they're looking for change and so the Conservatives become interregnum was in effect between liberal administrations and the odd part about that is is. You're quite right. They have been successful provincially Not just AH in Ontario and the western and Atlantic Canada but for long periods of time in Ontario for example they went you know forty consecutive years years in power Where they have struggled provincially has been in Quebec? But that's not because the debate has been sort of left right between Conservatism and liberalism. It's been between nationalism and separatism so I I would say Quebec is distinct in that way but I think while why they have been you know for example more successful in Ontario and even in Atlantic Canada is that they have generated a brand of conservatism ensure. That has is uniquely positioned to meet the needs of particular province where conservatives get into the trouble is when they're trying to reconcile what does conservatism mean in different parts of the country and it means different things so for example in Prince Edward Island. If you're conservative you're very much sensitive and then I would say Nova Scotia's well. You're very much sensitive to environmental issues. You know more so than you might get in other parts of the country In some parts of the country. If you know if you look at West social conservatism is particularly strong and robust and has quite a following following. It's far less so in in a in a Tarot and in virtually nonexistent in in Quebec. So it's reconciling Those differences of opinion. which is a tougher for conservatives because they are a party that has an underlying collection of ideologies theologies that they try to bring together whereas the Liberal Party has a little bit more flexibility? In that they you know they on some issues they might go left other issues. They might go. You know due to the right or were they would try to find dead center and hope that that works. So it's it's reconciling different factions and ideologies that have been a challenge for conservatives this so we're GonNa talk about how that could impact the leadership race in a minute but I guess one of the things I'm interested in is how much of that problem that you just described is sort of intractable and just the nature of politics in Canada and how much of that could be addressed by a new leader. A new strategy a change change of approach. Well I don't think there are any obstacles fundamental inherent that cannot be overcome and and they have been overcome so we saw in nineteen eighty-four Brian Rooney won the largest majority government. of all time And he repeated that in nineteen eighty eight and he did so not just by scooping up seats. And you know Terry on Quebec or pitting one recent against the other this. This was a truly national government so he succeeded. Stephen Harper was able to win seats in all parts of the country Less so in Quebec and again. That's that is distinct. Because of the you know the the presence of the Bloc Quebecois so so oh he was able to achieve it and and and what a strong national leader for the Conservative Party does is is effectively represent the conservative universe in the widest possible way to draws many of the elements working together in common cause us now what that means is that there may be some social conservatives who want something Let's say on their wish-lists they've got ten things and they may only get two or three but it's two or three things things on their list that they wouldn't get from a Liberal Party so better to join with the Conservatives not got all they want but get some of the things And you can do that with almost any of the the of the factions that exist in and even those people and I would say that's the majority of people who don't identify with ideology whatsoever but are more concerned about the standard of living and quality of life so When you have a leader who comes forward Within the Conservative Party and it seemed to represent one particular action. And I'll give you two examples Joe Clark And he was successful as A. We won the election. Be It as a minority in nineteen seventy nine with very much known as a Red Tory and that diminish the enthusiasm And in fact was he a red. Tory There were those who are on the social conservative spectrum dream that would have said that he was disrespectful towards them that he diminished them. Are Brian Mulroney. Didn't do that. Andrew Scheer in the last election campaign was quite it clearly identified as a social conservative. You went through his history. How he voted how he was endorsed by campaign life coalition You know he was very much from that That faction of the Party and so those who were either uncomfortable with that or you know we're in we're in other parts of the country that didn't have those views Lost confidence or enthusiasm that that he could Bridge the GAP APPS that were necessary to build a national coalition. So there the challenge for You know the next leader of the Conservative Party you know is is to bring all those factions together not to be a champion for one or the other but to bring them together in common cause has it become harder to bridge those gaps. I mean This is anecdotal obviously from social media and elsewhere but it seems that the social conservatives and the Red Tory moderate crowd have moved further. They're away from one another over over the past several years so I don't believe that it is. I think there's actually more consensus in Canada on social issues shoes. Then there have been you know over the last twenty or thirty years. I mean we used to have. Obviously there was big Discussions and debates. It's over capital punishment and there was quite a defied across the country and within political parties and within movements and But I think on many of the social issues particularly hid early same sex marriage and the right savell. GP to are are are now more universally accepted. So I I think that the The divide there are are not as difficult to to bridge And you know if you come from the social conservative university me at from within the conservative leadership in the Conservative Party that may not be your best vehicle for trying to influence public opinion. You can go outside of political party and join campaign life or you know work through your church or try to influence public opinion that way. But you know you're not going to be successful. I believe leave within the institution of the Conservative Party of of Canada. That's not where your voice be heard but you may have particular views for example on on on on the virtues of family life and the Conservative Party might come forward with for example tax policies. That are quite family friendly that you would support. They give that give you more choice and flexibility in how you organize yourself for childcare where you know. A liberal government might believe in a more institutionalized finalized approach and the conservative government or Conservative Party may take him or a flexible approach that social conservatives would find would find attractive and this would also you know not offend more moderate or Red Tories To have a party that supports traditional family values and and it doesn't offend the sensibilities of mainstream Canada. So you know affect your picking and choosing from within the The perspectives of these various factions across the country to find that sweet spot. I'm not saying it's easy but it certainly possible. I know it's kind of early days as I mean. It's only been a a little more than six weeks. I guess since this Leadership race really started. But from what you've seen so far I guess first of all who were the front runners and that might be kind of obvious but also what are you seeing in terms of lessons learned from the past election as you? You mentioned shears approach so we had this conversation last week. I might assume they're five front runners and and and it was a pretty much of an open contest I you never know who might You between now and and and and the the approaching deadline to register. I just want a candidate who I who am. I also enter the race although it's You know the list of people who are rumored even to be entering is is is shrinking by the by the day it would seem that. There's only two candidates that I can identify that. Have a you know a prospect of building support across the country. And that's Peter McKay and Erin O'Toole And I think the are both I would try to distance themselves. Quite a decidedly from the approach and the style and the tactics that were used in the in the last election campaign notably by by Andrea Sherr and his discomfort with be able to answer very simple straightforward eight for questions on perspective on social issues. So we we saw This week Peter Mackay Go. I would have his his way to declare that he will march in the Gay Pride Parade in Toronto And showing nothing but respect for that community which aligns up in fact with You know he was one of the very few cabinet ministers in the Harper government Who voted to accept accepting and bracing endorse same sex marriage? He was one of only Six at the time. So this is a position that that I think he Has Long held and and was he can eat readily Embrace and be believable on the issue. Erin O'Toole You know came out also with A position that he would march in Gay Pride Parade but he put some qualifiers on it. You you know in terms of how the parade was organized and was able to March so I wonder if you know. He's making the nod to the issue but you know trying to trying to make a To be somewhat cute with social conservatives to say well you know I'm in it but not in an unfettered way or or or maybe not as enthusiastically as Peter Mackay but you can see that both of the leading candidates and I and I think you know we will not see others enter the race Are are are moving on that issue and there will be others Other issues where they're going to be questioned and I would say Climate change would be one of them so far. It seems that the discussion around this race has focused I mostly on the social issues that we just talked about. And Will they be different from Andrew. shears approach approach and then Also just about branding as we saw kind of the rollout videos and and talking about candidates strong because Canadians are strong in that kind of stuff. When do you expect? We'll see that change and the real policy to be discussed and I guess. What do you think the key issues are? That will decide how conservatives choose their leader. When you talk about branding? You're really not I take it not talking so much about the brand of the Conservative Party. You're talking about the brand of leader. Yeah yeah trying to represent their approach and I think that's just absolutely critical That we have leaders. And I'm talking about this this for all political parties who can connect with Canadians. Who can connect with them on an emotional level? You know who take The issues far more seriously than they take themselves. These are people. You'd want to sit down and have a coffee or a beer wealth. There's a sense that they know and understand the country. You WanNa get a sense so their motivations because you can put forward all the policies you want in the world and be very prescriptive about it But as you become prime minister you're going to be faced with hundreds of issues that are not part of your platform that you've never talked about before that events that emerge and you WanNa have an essence of who that person isn't and and what their instincts is are and how they will react. I think that's you know that's more important than you know saying that tax gonNA be at a certain rate or you're GonNa have you know in particular policy on this pipeline versus versus another. So I think to the extent that the the the campaign Reveals who these people are is is as as important or more is more important than the particular policies that come forward now with that. I think they'll want to know what the candidates instincts. Thanks are on on a on a few key policies And always at the top of the list is is You know now that we sort to set aside some hot button issues such as you know. What's your stand on on on gay rights and I don't think that's going to be an issue in this in this campaign But economic the economy is always always number one now. I've argued that candidates in an even leaders in the Conservative Party. Do themselves no favors when they talk about Ideology as What they wanNA bring to Canadians? My view is is you know Canadians want to hear about jobs. They WANNA hear about rising housing incomes. They WANNA hear about income security for the the elderly they wanna hear about. You know a government that has strong finances that can support social systems uh-huh in healthcare in the aged. They're looking for Kitchen table responses to kitchen table issues that the Canadians will feel that they're going to make decisions sounds that are in the best long-term interests of the of the country The environment you're going to be I think front and center you know how do you you deal with. Climate Change. What mechanisms you know? Do you propose as it. A is it. Investments in technology is regulation. Is the taxation You know who is going to pay And within that within the climate change issue is is also energy management so I think the candidates will be expected to talk about about the the oil sands development of the oil sands and pipelines and enabling Canadian Energy Products Attics to to get to two markets. How energy is distributed across Canada from the West to the east? And you know in here in the here. There's you know one of the conundrum zero or one of the perplexing issues is and I've written about this. How do you get people in Quebec? You know who don't want pipelines lanes are the ladder. Canadians are deeply concerned about the environment on the same page as the people who live in Fort mcmurray and and in British Columbia. How you get them all on the same page that that will be a test of leadership that the candidates will be expected? Answer I guess my my last question just in terms of two sides of speaking broadly to all Canadians and connecting with them. There's a couple of things that have come up The first is How does that includes Quebec if the presumptive nominee is not bilingual but also Out Albert aware maybe not even just an Albert but out on the far end spectrum of the right where you know climate change policies. are not important and social conservative. Policies are and they tend to be very vocal. Even if they're they're not a huge part of the base. How do you walk both those lines and and do you worry? Worry about alienating Any potential votes so you know no one wants alienate potential votes and you want a national government. So you've got to win seats in Quebec and in Alberta you know on the question of bilingualism You know I I if I can think of of of even French leaders whose whose take credit for example who was vilified in Quebec because they didn't like the way that he spoke the language region. Right you know. It wasn't quite up to their standards. I I would say that. Do Know Within Quebec You know it's it's the population appellation is let's call them a fair minded and generous I think if they see a candidate who was able to who speak to them in French? They can deliver speak speech in in in French You know they can answer some questions in French. Would Not Gotcha questions with if you know you know very complicated and convoluted French. But basically they can get their message across and and what their approach would be to To the issues even if they're or not fluently bilingual but they the people can see you respect the language you respect the culture you respect. The you know the that they've ah the nation The Quebecois Your policies are supportive of that. You're not antithetical to Quebec. I think they would. They would prefer that. For example then a francophone Prime Minister who diminishes Quebec Right. So you know. I don't think Pierre Trudeau has ever been forgiven. For the Patriots of the Constitution or the objections of the government of Quebec. They would have far preferred. You know a a either lingual or a somewhat bilingual Prime Minister who who. Who didn't do that so I think you know the respect Is Is is far more important. And and I think we would see in both Peter McKay and Erin O'Toole tool the efforts that they're making and their capacity and French will be strong enough to To to win support. But if you're GONNA make this a an absolute test that you have to be a francophone with complete and total fluency I think that's you know that in in a in effect is diminishing the pool of people who could become prime minister to to to to to a much narrower pool and and and and it's not in the national interest you know Berta and you know on the far right I mean we we. We've we've seen what happens when they are when they feel alienated And and it's called the Reform Party. When they felt that the government of my Rooney he was too close to echo back? and was you know giving favorable treatment on the opening of contracts to Quebec firm over a Western firm that that planted planted a seed and and and started a fire that led to the Reform Party in the split of the Conservative Movement and Conservatives in Alberta are going to have to ask the question who do you. I want his prime minister. Justin Trudeau Whose policies have clearly been rejected resounding really in You know in the West Or would you rather have a conservative leader who again Has To win. Votes in Quebec has to win votes in Atlantic Canada and Ontario. You're not gonna get everything that you want but you'll you'll have a leader that is more supportive of Alberta And and and and energy development than you would get otherwise and there's a number of things that a conservative leader could do which is to say for example. You know we're GONNA develop resources we are going to build pipelines but the world is transitioning away from carbon based fuels and and the the economy of western Canada overtime is going to need to diversify and we are as a nation going to help western Canada And with that process not just to You know leave you with a tattered economy with with no supports. But you know we'll be a partner along the way to support western Canada. That message might resonate better than than what they're getting today from Justin Trudeau and I guess we we have A few months yet to see how this all sorts of We we certainly do. And and The conversation might change quite dramatically over that great. Thanks for your insight today. My Pleasure Bob. Plamen writes about the Conservative Party. That was the big story. podcast if you'd like more you know by now you really should the big story podcast dot ca or on twitter at big story F. B. N.. We'll always have the links for you there three times a day. And we're in all your podcast feeds at least we should be because you should have by now subscribed and rated us with five stars and reviewed us to tell us what we should be covering. Thanks for listening. I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings. We'll talk tomorrow.
Episode 059 - The Best Prime Minister in Canada's History?
"You pick your premise. I okay. Is that way I know what to do next? As I have a winning be. Okay. I did pick my a I'm just like I I can't argue that. Okay. But you pick and we also I'M GONNA destroy. You. Okay Wow Welcome back to Putin politics. Canadian issues served with cheese skirts, my name's Adam. My is back and today we are going to talk about who we think. Is the best prime minister ever of present or former and not future? 'cause we don't know expert minister is. It's going to be Derek Sloane. Come on. Ready. Not The person I thought you're going to say. Out of Mrs Wheeler on, we can come up with a brilliant idea of we pick our own grades prime ministers like, yeah. That's great. So I've come up with a narrowest and I'm GonNa let former sort. I. So I could either say that that's the greatest voice ever or that he is an upsurge schmuck go ahead at. All right. So the first the first thing I'm GonNa do here to kind of give you the idea of why I'm like this is what this is what I wanNA talk about okay. And it has nothing to do with anything that's going on right now. But I was I I was seeing I was to see a client and I. Guess we're talking about obviously all the different things going on with the you know the Cova programs and Blah Blah Blah that and this guy is like a he's he's Trudeau hater basically he's not like he's not like vitriolic about it or anything like that. But he just like it he just doesn't like Trudeau he really explain it. He just doesn't like him he groped. Older than that guy, he's in his late set, he's in his late sixties. Okay, so he was around for seven. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Exactly. You're certain demographic e you hatred. Yes. But it was the follow up comment that really made me want to do this topic and the follow up comment from him was that he believes that Stephen Harper was the best prime minister that this country has ever had. Why, because he would he do exactly I don't mean. mean or angry or anything like that I mean. It's like comparing Harper to crush it. What did they do? Rightly. Would groundbreaking legislation, they bring in what do they do? That was so spectacular in the other like I've I. Harp Christian almost the same like two thousand like opposite. Have Liberal takes on things in one concern and takes on things but really, they didn't do anything significant. Exactly and not, and I'm like I'm like I can't think of a prime minister since I've been born let's say that really would fall into that category, right? Like I mean okay. Did Brian. Mulroney win the largest majority ever yes. In Nineteen eighty-four. So obviously, I was like not even one year old when that happened. So I'm not going to remember that but that wasn't the point of this that wasn't the point of this conversation either right like and that's why I. Said look at all of the prime minister's that have been around since confederation and pick the one that you think I did the best basically. But yeah, this is this is where this conversation comes from his when his when this client said that he think Steven Harper's been or has been the best prime minister that we've ever had just you know I because it's because it's a client and things I'm like I can't absorb. Okay. Yeah. That's interesting. Anything, coming from PODCAST number three weeks. Perfect. So when I was when I was going through the list of prime ministers. So I I. I did essentially eliminate the majority of the prime minister's before the Second World War. Okay. Now, this from you know from things that we know about them and have learned about them and the things that they did. You know whether it was you know the the segregation and the and the elimination essentially of indigenous people and people of other minority rate, minorities, racists on and so forth and and the reason why I'm like well, I don't feel like any of them can really fall into a position of being the best prime minister that we've ever had is because those were those were government choices. It wasn't necessarily like the person themselves was like well, I don't. Like them, but I'm going to do things as as a parliamentarian as a as a politician that supports them because they deserve to be supported Kinda thing. Right? It was like, no, this is this is government policy right? You think about things like the like creation of the RCMP and the residential schools and the North West rebellion and things like that I, kind of look at all of the all of those kinds of things happening through the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds and basically say that the majority of those prime ministers should be disqualified for their roles in those in those. which got me to essentially from Mackenzie King forward unlike okay. Those are the people that I should probably the prime minister. I should probably look at it from my point of view and say it's someone from this group that I think is probably the best. So. Who Do you think I picked? Slack. You'RE NOT GONNA. Tell me what? Okay. All right. We should affect. Conversation. Okay. So so you told me that you have you have to that. You looked at one a and one. B One and the reason I won't be is because if you pick one a while I'm like, yeah okay. We have nothing topic. Okay. Fair. Enough I think I think in the end result I have one in one be as well and I think a lot of it has to do with their their work in creating the. Beginnings of the stronger social safety net in the country. So I would say that my one a is Louis Laurel. And my one be Lester Pearson Blow wrong really. Yeah. It's Pearson it has to be Pierce. It has ninety wells. Okay. Not even club. Why is it not even close? Essentially. All of the main social programs that we use he created. Okay. He was not a politician because he wanted to be. All right I think that's a key indicator like if you want to be a politician because he wanted to be politician usually Mike. Well, you have alternatives you want people. So are you doing the widsom best interest country with special interests a you and there's a law of prime minister that you could say. I know what you're doing you. WanNa be a prime minister. You don't ask who is right for the country and I can think of the last two ministers and go. Both of you call them, fi yeah yeah. Easily qualify for that right right and what he did it you can even. Say Well he didn't do that. Well, I mean he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his he created the blue berets, right? Okay. So Now and. That was that was that was one of the things where I'm like I think Pearson could be could be above law in my eyes but the reason why I chose long over. Pearson. was. Okay. So I the Nobel Peace Prize big thing. It did technically happen before he became prime minister or as a result of things he did before he was prime minister set. So I was like. Okay do I count that as as as part of being Prime Minister? I probably shouldn't just because it occurred beforehand Brian. So the reason why and and you're right that Pearson Pearson's prime ministership led to you know like account a pension plan and and and Health Canada Act and you know those different social safety nets and things like that. The reason why I picked the wrong though is that during while he was prime minister, some of those programs got their start and Pearson was part of his cabinet while he was prime minister. So in a way I kind of look at it as Pearson. Almost continued on with some of the things that Louis Laura started, and that was that was kind of the thing to me that. Barely barely puts Laura over the edge. In my point of view, that's how close I feel they are. but I feel like because you know whether it was all they'd old age pensions the start of the federal government supporting the provinces in regards to healthcare costs the start of of the equalization payments and transfer payments systems happened under under the wrong guy for me. You know he was he was there with the formation of NATO in the United Nations depending on how you feel about the those organizations and kind of helping with the beginnings of peacekeeping forces with the United Nations. So it was it was those kinds of things I was looking at and saying. You know again it's just barely. But because those things happened while he was prime minister and he was he was. He was an important part in influential in those decisions that that was why I put him slightly of Pearson. Close, you don't think it should be close. Okay. All right. Pearson put through. All those reforms like those finished reforms? Yes. Laura may have started it, but he put them through any put them through with a minority government. Well and I mean, yes you're right and he's so I have to I have to admit okay, I was I was thinking about pulling a fast one on this one. And saying Okay and saying that the best prime minister. although he was never the prime minister was Tommy Douglas. Can make me. Tommy Douglas Ones but Tommy Douglas was the the father of of those things but he didn't do every like no pearson was a better peacemaker. Weeding to be numb ripe. To Korea yes. Long was was part of Korea. He would've been. Yeah actually it was wondering if you're GonNa pick king, let no no no no. I mean, he's our longest serving prime minister but I don't I definitely would not have said that he was he was with the best now Pearson I still say Pearson the best, Mike There's no question my mind about that. I thought simply because of what he did and our flag the. vespers. That's precisely. There's so many things that you can be like Okay Pearson to that that that that and. Allow if you look at list and this is what drives me nuts because I looked at mcleans list have you seen the McCain's list of top Prime Minister? I decided to avoid it I don't really have to look at it. Have you ever WanNa see on dryest liberal coverage just look at that. But who did they put a number one? King. They did put him at number one I thought I read somewhere I thought I read on that they didn't put him as number one one one of the three times it done it they. Okay. Franken the best and worst prime ministers. This one's from two thousand sixteen. Yet. But look how many liberal people there are. A. Yeah. Well. Liberal Liberal. But like Johnny, McDonald because he was the first, Mike, I don't think John was like A. No gotTA gotTa admit the score was close though because it well. I. Guess It was out of Fife, but you're right I mean. The liberal. Liberal liberal conservative liberal liberal liberal liberal conservative conservative conservative conservative lift way. The Heck Down There Pearson is. Fifth Yeah. What you guys know what you're doing? Well, maybe it has to do with fact that he was it was a minority. was always under a minority for him cares matters either I mean he won both of the elections that he that he was part of. Yeah here's the thing Kinglasik. Sorry to sorry 'cause Pearson was in Pearson was in the elections with even Baker. So No Pearson did not win the election he didn't win. He would do in his first election lost it, and then he won a second lesson. Yeah that's. The guy had a lisp. So it wasn't like he was a great or her, but you see what saying like this is just like why is this so skewed to liberal like if this was an accurate affectionate, it looks like as Conservative Party was just the worst for Canada and it's like it's not the worst mom Ariel. Maybe, that's part of the problem. Is this vote? This vote happened in twenty sixteen and maybe people's thoughts on conservatives were down at that point naturally evening go back to Sing Oh, like older lists. Okay. Yeah. In the nineteen, ninety nine once like. It is interesting at on this. So this was so this particular list was. A year posted a year after Justin Trudeau was elected and they had him down as the best short term Prime Minister? Now with the great score reminds you because it was out of five in his score was three point two seven. And then followed by Paul Martin at two point three, three out of five. Again. And and Kim Campbell she came in last. Them? I always want to give him a little bit more credit than than Yet, she got ostlund mask. All. No. It wasn't her fault of course nights. Oh, here you go. By the way we made all these bad decisions and now you're the leader what? Like. We're GONNA make sure that we upset both the East and west at the exact same time. Yeah. That's impressively bet. Yes. Okay well, I mean like I and again I guess this is where I'm I'm so close between my two choices that I feel like maybe I could. I could flip or or whatever. But I again I mean I like I said I, I think in the end result I picked. Because he's not bad he and I feel like he started the he started the he started the conversation in regards to the social pro social safety net Hey, he brought. Newfoundland into confederation to. Madman. Newfoundland. Yet, whatever you be from Newfoundland what? I find that offensive and I'm not even Newfoundland. Laurent the irrigate. Laurent's KNOB BY MR like I'm not saying that okay. You not hear me say that. Laura is great. Came to say he started conversation. Okay and greatly lots of people started competition like Doug like Saint Brian Rooney start the conversation about making sure that all the promises agree you had any failed. Failed Core. Yeah. He failed at that. I wouldn't. I wouldn't necessarily say that Laura failed at what he was doing. But he didn't see lay well, I think he's sixty I. Think he succeeded on parts of it, and then like I said I think I think Pearson followed through on the rest of it. Pearson put it through. The person actually put it through bright I. Don't count the person that Kinda did it I the person that did it okay. I'm telling you. He did some of it because like I said, he introduced he. Old Age pensions. He introduced he introduced the federal. Health. Transfers, he introduced the equalization system He introduced he introduced It was about it was something about not not like an old age security thing exactly. But almost like a pension payment or or or a a disability payment as it were for for people who were blind. So, again, like he yeah. There's a introduction. Yeah. So so so instruction of old age assistance for Canadians aged sixty five and older and above universalism ation of old age pensions for all Canadians aged seventy and above introduce introduced. Introduction of allowances for the blind and the disabled amendments to the national. Housing Act which provided Federal Government Financing to nonprofit organizations as well as the province's And unemployment assistance for unemployed employable on welfare who had exhausted their are I at the time benefits so and L. Former this way Maybe putting him at one twenty, I'm putting him four five. Okay. That's all upset. Okay. Amount we're standing here. Right I mean you could go pearson law wrong borden. I think I'm not. I was like wait who has no? No, he's terrible. I mean king comes second tier it's hard to even John McDonnell because his the founder young put in the second tier whatever it's hard. It's hard to even do like a top five right The you get some people that. Love Trudeau and they get some people hatred. Oh but there's just too many things atro- did that might That I just can't ignore, right How many times has the warranty Mac Bennett Act the time as. I think. I think it's an at once three his sure. Owen? Oh. Sorry. Yeah. Yes and nineteen seventy. Yes the October crisis yeah. I'm sorry we were at war nine, hundred, seventy. Well, there was a war going on somewhere. Trudeau. So like I said journals not necessarily I. Don't think he's was like the worst, but he wasn't angry but look claims and then to all agree yeah because he's flamboyant he liked to look at him look at what all of his. Grand Spectacle but we would he do another one that I think it's slide away too frequently Joe Clark Right 'cause Joe Clark was in a No win scenario right and. He did the right things. So he should be higher up on the short-term list. He's one of the ones think should be like one or two on short term. I don't think he was that creative prime minister overall because. He he wasn't even a year right but he had to make tough decisions and he made those tough decisions, right? So I, just a one of the interesting things that I reading at with Trudeau let's say with with with pet I I was reading about just doing the research that I was doing for this and Kinda like okay I. Know There's a lot that I know there's a whole bunch of people I can cut out and be like, yeah they're not GONNA make my list no matter what Yeah of course. ACT A lot of people. Yeah. But it was it was it was Kinda reading about the whole thought of how much people complain about how much he added to the debt while he was prime minister how much he added to the national debt and not not even thinking about it because of because of a good chunk of the time that he was prime minister but the fact that during during a good chunk of time when he was prime minister there were a lot of financial issues around the world and again, just kind of like now and two thousand, eight. Canada. Wasn't the only country that was suffering financially right. And so much so much gets put on him for adding so much money to that. But you know like there was the two, the two oil crises in the in the seventies, and that caused a lot of issues in the united, states as well and in Europe and. Like. I understand why we have such a limited view when we complain about things that we don't like but. You almost need that that wider view of the world especially when you're talking about world leaders to say, Oh, well, I mean okay. Yeah things looked bad here but things look bad everywhere. Right you WanNa you WANNA use the error of measuring stick yeah. So your choice was Pearson My choice was Laurel Years Pearson by a mile mine was Laura by like an inch. Well. That is a look at our favorite prime minister well, best prime minister, not favorite prime minister because I. I again I think even those two terms have different meanings so Let's hear. It means that you let the most yes. Exactly. The best. All right anyways. So who we believe the best prime ministers in history of Canada. From Putin politics. My Name's Adam is by we'll talk to you soon.
Why many Canadians are boycotting U.S. products
"If I have a chance I am going to try to avoid products that come from the United States. I'm not going to travel to the United States. And I'm not going to buy any clothing that comes from the United States. With the NAFTA agreement unresolved. Some Canadians have said they plan to boycott US goods. But NAFTA isn't the only reason why the active boycotting is on our radar. I'm Nikki right Meyer. And this is why. Back in the early nineties our relationship with the US was pretty good in nineteen Ninety-two. Prime minister Brian Mulroney signed NAFTA, along with US, President Bush senior and the president of Mexico that was the creation of the North American Free trade agreements, President Bush met today with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to share their views on the North American Free trade agreement. They gathered in San Antonio, Texas and looked on as trade negotiators initial the two thousand page document work on the trade pact was completed back in August. The deal would take effect in nineteen Ninety-four pending approval by the legislatures of all three countries. Trade Representative say this arrangement would create the world's largest and strongest trading block covering three hundred sixty million people coming next on C span, we take you to San Antonio for today's ceremony. Our coverage begins with the remarks of President Bush. And may I start off by saluting presents Salinas and prime minister Mulroney, welcome to the city of San Antonio, President Bush. Well, I think you and I have been through some of this before. And I think that I can say quite clearly Mr President without your persuasive leadership in the implementation of the Canada United States free trade agreement almost four years ago. Now, we would today have no free trade agreements upon which to build this remarkable day here today. A lot of changed between then. And now I'm going to tell our NAFTA partners that I intend to immediately renegotiate the times of that agreement to get a better deal by a lot not just a little by a lot for our work, even during his election campaign now President Donald Trump vowed to renegotiate NAFTA or just scrap it altogether. What resulted was a trade breakdown between the three nations America through the first blow slapping tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum in the midst of NAFTA renegotiations Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau condemned. President Trump's tariff be with regret, but it would be with absolute certainty, and firmness that we move forward with retaliatory measures President Donald Trump has threatened to impose tariffs up to twenty five percent on all. Cars and auto parts imported to America from foreign countries including Canada. I mean, actually in some countries including Canada attacks on cars would be the ruination of the country. That's how big Innis we the ruination of the country now to translate his shot at Canada while he was speaking to business leaders in Washington today, he went off on a bit of a tangent about trade and he accused Canada of being a nation of shoe smugglers, the tariffs to get common items back into Canada, so high that they have to smuggle them in. They buy shoes than they wear them. They scuff them up in Washington. Canadian negotiators are still talking with their American counterparts trying to reach NAFTA deal. Christopher Freeland headed back to Washington today as there's still trying to hammer out some sort of NAFTA renegotiation than the two main sticking points seem to be dairy tariffs in the resolution clause. Canada's negotiating team has failed to sign a trade deal with the US. We're continue. To work, very hard and here making progress. We're not there yet. Eventually US and Mexico came to a deal, but Canada was shutouts day for trading day for a country a lot of people would never get here. So we wanted to find out how Canadians felt about this impasse, President Trump's stubborn stance and our inability to find common ground with the US. If the American government is going to be tough on trade will you Kat US goods in retaliation decided that we don't wanna spend any money going to the state, so we're traveling in our own country tentative I just don't want to support what's going on there. I wanted to the people but Huracan Nommik because of all the tariffs that he's trying to put onto Canada. I don't agree with. I think it's crazy. I would say no, I mean, I get people are happy with Trump and everything that's going on with him. And. Yeah. Ground to the guys aren't exactly lake Jenky and dealing with people. But the services and all of that stuff doesn't come from. It comes from other people and other people trying to make like. And by boycotting that you demonstrate them more than they may not they may share the same ideas as you. So. Some. Yes, if you could get it anywhere else. Yeah. If you get from somewhere else, it'd be fine rather like Nagin. No. Just because of the history of the trade of the country and Donald Trump will be gone before. We know this point Noah hasn't affected my spending. I haven't seen the price increase. Wait and see. Quite stick it to. Right now, yet have fired me action keeps on beam saw recive Gaza Canada. I think I will know in fact, what we just got back from Vegas that was that. A company called research code the survey asking Canadians that very question will you avoid buying US products because of the trade dispute for more info, I called it. Mario saco. Hi, mario. It's nikki. How are you? He's the president of research co so I find it so interesting this idea that because of what's been happening with NAFTA or I can assume because of what's happening with NAFTA. That Canadians are saying that to some degree. We're ready to boycott American products is the really that many Canadians who are behind this movement. Well, there's definitely a little bit of a shift going on here in BC birth the early when I was asking about the possibility of Trump becoming president the couple of years ago. We didn't see a lot of Canadians who were happy with the idea aside from a couple of pockets of support in Burda and interior, which is essentially those groups who are always saying. Well, we time for somebody new and it's time for somebody to change the way politics works. We always a higher level of funny. Most of the two are strong, and I think that has increased dramatically because of his actions aspirin, particularly when it comes to NAFTA. And I think that's one of the reasons for the fact that we have so many. Supporters saying if I have a chance I am going to try to avoid products, come from the United States. I'm not going to travel to the United States, and I'm not going to buy any clothing that comes from the United States. I wonder if there was a different president at the helm. I'm more likable president, let's say, you know, Barack Obama is still a president of the United States of America. But we were still having major NAFTA issues and trade issues would the reaction from Canadians be the same will. Think it will be substantially different in a one of the situations that we've have particular over the past few decades with the US is there's never been a scenario where ideologically the president and the prime minister have been close to each other. It would have to go back to maroon and Reagan, you know, you had a Republican president conservative prime minister, they got along very, well, there was the sense of a great relationship between the two countries. But usually it's been having a democrat in the White House and conservative in in auto Wah, and now we have the other situation, which is Republican into White House on the liberal in order were. So there's this tendency to have a situation where you're not really dealing with things very well and Republican presidents have consistently in on popular here in Canada. We saw much higher level of support for Obama in the latter years of the Clinton administration in the late ninety s well, we never saw those numbers for your story. Bush, and we're certainly not seeing them for Donald Trump. So the. Notion of the spiral universe were. Hillary Clinton is the president probably would have a situation where even if you're having all of this NAFTA discussions the level of funding. Most of these notice highest we see for Donald Trump, so Canadians by boycotting American products are really boycotting the Republican party or to put a face on that they're boycotting Donald Trump. It's more about Trump than anything else. And I think we saw a little bit of that earlier this year just asking you about specific things that you could do to avoid Bravo were brand the Trump, and we did see a high level of reaction from the BBC residents, particularly who said I don't want to buy anything that has the Trump name. But now, it's it's it's deeper than that, you know, he is the head of state of the country. There's a lot of discussions about what is going to be happening. It started right after the summit and the things that he was saying about Justin Trudeau, and now it has continued because of this questions related to NAFTA. So there's definitely a situation there. That should worry particularly tourism operators. What kind of products are Canadians saying that, you know, we're going to boycott? Well, it's an interesting situation, particularly when it comes to generations because we do see that. There's for instance, twenty five percents say they've changed the brand of food. They usually purchase to a boy buying from US producers, but it's higher among fifty five and over. So if you're a baby boomer, you're more likely to be taking a second look at your condiments at the things that you buy at the store and trying to buy from somebody who's not American based there's a change for millennials. They're more likely to say that they've changed the brand of clothing that they usually purchase to avoid vying from US retailers average is nineteen percent. Among millennials twenty five percent now millennials by more clothing, definitely more than what we see for generation Xers and baby boomers, so that could also mean certain difficulty for those American retailers. There's a change there. That is definitely related to what has. Happening politically away. We don't have the the situation that we used to have with the dollar in Canada, not being valuable as a dollar in the United States. So there's no real economic pressure. Now to take this decisions is something that is happening only because of the political ramifications of choice in the White House. Mario thank you so much, really. Appreciate it. My pleasure anytime coming up later in this episode. We discuss another boycott that's been making headlines. But the Canadian boycott of NAFTA goods is not the only boycott happening right now in the news, nor is this the first time in Canadian history that something's been boycotted for broader perspective. I spoke to Christo ALI'S a professor of Canadian political and labor history at Queen's University. Generally, what happens is that Canadian American relations go through waves. I mean, generally the relationships been positive for most of history, but you know, there have been times where it's been negative in recent years, he was quite positive because most Canadians generally had at least a neutral or positive view of President Obama. But but with the kind of rise of Trump a lot more Canadians are more negative about the United States about the about its domestic policies and about how it relating to Canada. So you know, it kind of leads to this tension. I guess where you do a lot of business and trade with with the United States yet. There is a desire to exact some kind of political pressure and one of the ways you can do that is through a boycott. So if you look back to the seventies there was, you know, a lot of animosity towards the United States. I don't know if it ever organized in boycotts. But you know, there was a lot of animosity culturally to the the Yankees coming and taking our oil. And and, you know, the song American woman and all this. And we're seeing a bit of a revival of that right now with Trump, what would engender inspire someone to boycott something whether or not it's the United States and their products, or you know, Asst. Down the street. What inspires boycotts? Will it depends? I mean, generally, it's a perception that, you know, the business or country or organization or what have you that? You're boycotting is doing something you disagree with. And there's a sense that either it's morally objectionable for you to continue patronizing that business or you feel that your your lack of purchasing. Your boycott your participation in a boycott will exert enough pressure on that organization for it to change. So for instance, perhaps you feel that they're the, you know, the call and capper Nick issue that's happening with Nike right now. If you feel that they've made a mistake in hiring kind of call and capper, Nick as their spokesperson, you can at least hypothetically try to launch a boycott with the hope that they will change their mind, or at least with the case, you'll be sending a signal that people who who take certain value stance that you're opposed to. And that people like you are opposed to the face economic consequences Nike is putting Colin Kaepernick back into spotlight. The former quarterback was the first in the NFL to kneel in protest against racism. Now Nike has added him to a lineup of athletes to feature in a new ad campaign to Mark the thirtieth anniversary of it's just do. It's logan. Right. Let's dive into that issue. A little bit more actually because it seems like Nike is no stranger to the boycott. I mean, not that long ago of people are talking about boycotting Nike products because of their use of child labor and sweatshops, and that was sort of this moral boycott. And now the new boycott they're going through seems to be a bit more political. Yeah. No, certainly, I mean, a lot of people are talking about it. And there's a certain, you know, because I think the broad kind of center is maybe pro pro Nike on this case, whereas the conservative wing of society is perhaps eighty Nike because they don't like copper. Nick and what he stands for. But I think a lot on the left are saying what's happening to capture. Nick in the NFL is disgraceful. But this is being used to paper over, you know, serious labor rights abuses around the world by Nike. But I think at this point this is this is also calculation because in cases like Nike's, and this kind of a boycott you're making a calculation of the fact that you know, by making this nakedly political stance, and it is a political staff. And I don't use it in a negative connotation, but it's a political move your banking on the fact that more people will buy your products out of compulsion now to support that political vision, then we'll stop buying it. Because you've made that decision in essence the opposite of a boycott where people who would not buy products before will buy them now because you took that stance. Right. And I've also heard too that Nike is benefiting because of all of the chatter that's going on with them right now, you know, people are calling for a Nike boycott. But meanwhile, everyone's talking about them, and they're basically getting all this free advertising. Yeah. That goes to the idea of like all publicity is good publicity. And I mean, you could probably speak to scholars of marketing who've done research on that. And they could actually tell you if that's true or not. But I guess from my perspective as an observer, at least is that in this case, it is helping them. And I think part of the reason is that you know, they've pa-. -sition themselves against an unpopular president. And a lot of the people that support that president. And that guy did win the election, but his popularity rating is far below fifty percent anyone that election without winning the popular vote. So by positioning yourself as a company, basically in a sense, this is not only criticism of the NFL. But because Trump is inserted himself into this debate. It's basically Nike taking an anti-trump stance. I think they benefit from the fact that the majority of people kind of around the world are anti-trump. So it's really a kind of beneficial decision for them to make boycotts then ever work. Or is the rule that any publicity is good, publicity, generally true for these types of businesses or do we actually see boycotts working in history? I mean, you know, from from a labor perspective, you know, the boycott has often accompanied things like the striker lockout, and it can have an effect, you know, unionized workers in their allies. Would would you know, patronize businesses that that were? Are unionized would often avoid that weren't. And especially ones that were locking out workers or that we're workers were on strike or companies that were you know, trying to impede workers right to form a union and bargain, collectively. And you know, those pressures can have can have significant effects in and have one reforms and going into the past. Consumer rights advocates have often I've used forms of consumer advocacy, not just you know, government lobbying. But, but you know, proactive consumer decisions to force changes. And I think in that sense they can have the effect. But it's difficult to say sometimes because you know, is it the boy caught in general a specific action of boycotting. Or is it general consumer distaste with a change? And that's it's not so much a guided process. So if we move now up to what Canada's relationship is between the US a different type of boycott, why are Canadians. Saying they want to boycott American goods. Well, they're saying that because there's a sense right now that the United States is attacking Canada that they're asking for concessions in trade without really willing to give up anything. But I think that combined with a sense that Trump has kind of insulted candidate. He's personally been attacking Trudeau kind of behind the scene. So I think there's a sense that Canadians are angry at a personal level and feel that there needs to be some kind of action to boycott the United States, and it's not a total boycott, of course. But a lot of the surveys of shown that certain kinds of decisions are being made by Canadians. Even if this doesn't have an effect in terms of actually influencing the ultimate course of NAFTA. It's something that people can do. So they feel they have control over the scenario and something that they can do. So they could signal to people that were not happy with the status quo, right? Because I wonder if the boycott of American goods that some Canadians are participating in right now will actually have an effect at all on the US economy, or if it's just a total drop in the bucket. So it seems like people are doing this more. So to satisfy themselves on some kind of psychological level to say, you know, I won't participate in this. Because I don't believe in it. There are not that actually has any type of affect is a different matter altogether. Yeah. I mean, I would say that, you know, the it's tricky to say right now, I think in general, of course, the American economy is dwarf stars. Quite substantially the biggest economy in the world in Canada has a large economy for its population. But but it's small fries compared to the United States. And it's the case that while some US states aren't really that connected to Canada a lot of northern states actually, do depend on Canadian trade quite heavily, and what could be a bit of a wild card. Here is some of these border states or relatively close states like Ohio and Michigan were key Trump states in the electoral college. And if there is a sense that Trump is angering United States. And if a boycott does have an effect, it would be a likely in regionalized one Cristo that was so interesting. Thank you so much for chatting with me. Thanks for having me. As of mid September Canada received almost three hundred million dollars in duties due to the retaliatory tariffs that we imposed on US goods. But if Trump pursues auto tariffs are prime minister is said the results would be devastating to the Canadian economy. Both sides are still working to find a NAFTA resolution. This is why is produced by John O'Dowd and me, Nikki right Meyer. You can find us on Twitter at this is why or contact us via Email. This is why at curious cast dot CA. This is why is a radio show and podcast. You can find us online. So the never miss an episode. Subscribe to the podcast for free on apple podcast, Google podcast wherever you get your favorite podcast. And that's where you can also give a rating and review, thanks for listening. And I'll talk to you next week. And while you're subscribing to this is why check out the new podcast from curious cast called when life gives you Parkinson's. It's the true story of one man's journey with incurable disease. Join Larry Gifford as he learns about research talks to experts and meets inspiring individuals in the Parkinson's community when life gives you Parkinson's is available now.
How worried should we be about foreign takeovers?
"There's an opportunity for investments from China into Canada today. The innovation minister was forced to stand in this. House acknowledged that he misled when he said that the company. He's selling our retirement homes to was Canadian. Under Chinese ownership. You could be forgiven if you missed some of the stories that inspired today's episode. I mean look. It's my job to be tuned into all the big stories. And I know I miss them. The fact that moves like this one. Don't register on. Most of our radars might be a problem. Right now obviously Canadian businesses are suffer. Not all of them are going to make it through Colfax now. And that makes some of them. A tasty target for foreign buyers who are looking to acquire assets in a stable and relatively prosperous. And in some cases, those investments are badly needed in other cases, though especially when the purchasing company has direct ties to a foreign government. There are real security concerns. I mean. Why would a foreign government have interest in owning a failing Canadian business? So much interest that they are willing to pay more than anybody else. What kinds of risks do we take on when we allow Canadian companies to come under control of state owned businesses. How can candidate government balanced the need for foreign investment especially during an unprecedented economic crisis? With the red flags being waved by our security and intelligence agencies. And also just. Why, don't most of us know or care about this? What part of the big picture is missing here? Jordan Heathrow, and this is the Big Story Stephanie Carbon is an assistant professor of International Affairs at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs at Carleton University. She also has a book coming out this fall on you, T. press, which is called stand on guard, reassessing threats to Canada's national security. Hi Stephanie. I want you to start. If you can buy explaining a recent deal that kind of put this question in our minds in his why we reached out to you, can you just tell me a little bit about The Hope Bay Gold Mine Project, and what it kind of means for national security in general, so the Hope Bay Gold Mine is a mine eighty S. he was a Canadian control. It was it was kind of being run by. by US t, T MAK RESOURCES INC and it unfortunately unperforming, it's one of actually three mines that have been unperforming recently where there's been some kind of take over, but this kind of raised eyebrows because it's been a basically taken over by a company called Shandong Gold Mining Company, which I also goes by St. Gold and the concern is that this company is considered to be a state owned enterprise. The Chinese government has a forty seven percent. Share in this company, and often when you at the other owners, the you can dig down and find that there's actually probably more links to the state. Generally, so this seems to be an a case of a Chinese state owned enterprise, taking over a Canadian natural resources firm something that you know has raised concerns in the past say in the last ten years and seems to be happening even in this Cova era or perhaps because of it. Why does it raise concerns? I? Mean pretend I know nothing what's wrong with them? So. This is a really good question. Canada is is a small country, right? We're a country, thirty, seven, thirty eight million people, and that means we. Need for an investment in order to grow our economy. especially up north I mean it's very expensive to develop things up north, and we know that successive governments have wanted to encourage business up north to try and improve the lives and conditions of people who live there, but we get concerned when we see these government, company or state owned or even state champion enterprises coming into the market in order to provide that foreign investment, and sometimes they are the only companies that are interested in providing that financial assistance to get these companies going. So you know the first concern is for a long time. We saw the government trying to get of business. Right privatizing various companies, but we're seeing. Despite the Canadian government getting out of these businesses, we're seeing other governments. Take their place, and this is something that actually Stephen Harper warned about in two thousand and twelve thousand thirteen. Canada has spent a long time. Trying to privatize its into industry, but not in such a way that we want foreign governments coming in and taking over those. Businesses instead, so this is. This is something that we've worried about for some time and. Part of the reason that these state-owned enterprises are problematic is that we often don't understand what they are trying to do in. You've taken a normal company right? McDonald's any other company. You know that they're trying to make money, right? That's what they do, but with state owned enterprises. Is there some kind of geopolitical or Geo? Objective that they have in mind. Particularly in the natural resources sector that we have to maybe be concerned about you know, are they trying to strategically placed themselves in such a way that they have control over Canadian resource in a way that perhaps maybe Canadians or the Canadian government would be uncomfortable with. Do we have any examples of that happening that we can look at and say you have this was A. A mistake we shouldn't have gone down that path so a really good example of this would probably be nexen people would point to next is of course a oil company. It's out in Alberta and in two thousand twelve. It was kind of putting itself on the market, and it was taken over by Seahawk. which is a Chinese state owned enterprise, a petroleum company and there was some concern that you know. Do we actually get want. These kind of government owned enterprises owning these businesses, and it paid well over the market price in order to get access to accent. A Louis. Some national security concerns that were raised at the time. Eventually, the Harper government did let it go through, but you know a lot of the promises that were made as a part of the deal. Really haven't gone very well. the business hasn't been as profitable as as was hoped. There's been some safety issues. Accidents with regards to nexen owned critical infrastructure, and even recently we've seen a number of layoffs. I mean. There's so many layoffs in that industry anyways in my heart goes out to the the oil workers, but. It. Really just hasn't performed as well as hopes, and this is one of the concerns that I think has often been raised. Is that state owned? Enterprises can't fail they are. Backed by the state. They're not subject to the same pressures as a normal company like again. Going back to McDonald's. You can't they can't. You can't fail if you can always turn to your home. Government and get a bunch of loans get a bunch of deals, favourable conditions to keep going, and that means you don't have to operate competitively. Not Good for our economy. It's not good for our businesses, so I think the next one example is is an interesting one that we can hold up. It just really hasn't delivered in a way that. was hoped for originally and again it's still not clear why that takeover actually happened in the first place. That was kind of going to be. My next question is from from China's perspective. What do they get out of this? They overpay for a business that underperforms to what end well. This is just we don't know and we have seen in a number of reports by our Security Intelligence Service so the Canadian Security Intelligence Service or ceases. They've often put in their public reports that. Their concern is that a lot of these state-owned enterprises or state champion enterprises. We don't know what their what their eventual aims are. Do they have particularly you know? Gio economic purposes that we don't necessarily know or understand. It's all very opaque, and this is concerned because you know it's not that China is is buying our gold or buying our oil and I don't think anyone would have a problem with that I think the concern is. They don't just want to own the gold. They want to own the mine. They want to own the roads that get the mines to the ports which they also want to own, and then ship it to China, so it's kind of want control over the whole process and again there are some concerns here about. What is what is the end to which you're eventually aiming? Are you going to employ Canadians? Are you going to kind of bring in your own labor force? Is this going to be good for the Canadian economy? And so I think this is the difficulty it kind of gets back to this whole thing that we need foreign investment to actually exploit our natural resources in particularly in the north. But the companies that are best place to do so are ones where we don't. Understand everything that they are up to and to what ends that they are actually serving the states, which in some cases own them or that they perhaps are under the control of. So far the examples we've used have all been cases in which China was the investor and I'm sure we're probably going talk about alway in a minute to, but are there any other? Nations around the world that are doing this especially in Canada. There have been concerns race I think about Russia especially with regards to telecommunications, are there you know the idea that it's not just we hear a lot about safe for example while way and spying. We can talk about that, but also you worry about a country like Russia for example. Would they try to invest in telecommunications company perhaps with the view that they would also try to serve Russian. State ends in terms of spying or espionage that could be a real problem and Russia like China. And a lot of ways has laws that require its telecommunications companies to actually help the state in its investigation. So that's also a concern for sure, so it's not just China. It's a authoritarian states that might be trying to gain access to Canadian critical infrastructure to serve their own ends. Whether it is to control the infrastructure itself, or whether it is to get access to information or perhaps even intellectual property, which they can then use, and by what they may see as a bargain, and bring back to their own countries, and then manufacture much cheaper level, therefore undermining Canadian industry, I, guess on the flip side of that question then is. Candida alone as a target. Is it a particularly good target? Why are we seeing the so much here? So we are not alone. That's a that's a very interesting point out. We have seen a Chinese state-owned enterprises getting involved in in Europe in particular, buying up technical companies in Germany again a lot for the purpose of access to that intellectual property that they can then bring back to China so they can manufacture a particular. High Tech Industry items there so Canada's not alone, and it's it's interesting. I have the opportunity to meet with European embassies, and they look to Canada actually to see how we're handling it. They're curious as to what our policies are because they're dealing with these issues as well. This is not just a Canadian issue, and so sometimes I actually have to scratch my head and I think you know. Why aren't Western companies cooperating on these issues? More with regards to how we deal with state owned enterprises. State championed enterprises I mean it's definitely true that some European companies have their own. Investment firms if you think of Norway for example, it has a very large state owned investment firm, but you know we don't worry about countries like Norway. Because they're relatively transparent, we can kind of expect that they can adhere to the rule of law, or at least respect Canadian law, but with a country like China or even perhaps Russia. That's not a guarantee, so no Canada's not alone in doing this i. think that what we are seeing is that these enterprises are taking advantage of the fact that we are so desperate for foreign investment to exploit our natural resources, and so that particular sector is is important, but for the sake of of. Is this just a Canadian problem absolutely not. Can. You maybe walk me through the XS and Os because I'm not familiar with these deals, all of what actually happens when one of these takeovers goes down and in particular, where do our rules and regulations in government come into play what what takes a look at these? So the framework that we use to deal with state owned enterprises in foreign investment generally is something called the Investment Canada Act, and it's actually the origins of this actor actually kind of interesting. In Canada. We've always needed for an investment, but in some ways we've always been afraid of it, too. And if you think back to the nineteen seventies nineteen eighties, we often use to hear concerns about the branch plant economy that Canada would just said how the branch plant economy of the United States and as a result Pierre Trudeau pass something called the Foreign Investment Review Act in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, four, an under this act, all new foreign acquisitions establishments of businesses and Canada required some kind of review, and they had to demonstrate that there was a significant to Canada moving ahead to the nineteen eighties. You have Brian Mulroney come in and he. He feels that no actually foreign investment is a good thing, so he actually creates the he turns the Ford Investment. Review Act or fear into the Investment Canada Act in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, five, and the significant benefit tests, so proving that you you really have to improve the Canadian. Economy comes down to a net benefit test, and what's so basically making it easier for foreign companies to come in, and what was important about that is that for the first few years there was no distinction between a state, owned enterprise and a private company, which is kind of interesting given that Brian was really trying to promote a free market economy in Canada. But. We have this framework and it was really going well. It was in place, but as we started seeing some these state owned enterprises, coming into Canada particularly from China. Got Modified by by the Harper government a few times. The I was in two thousand nine were basically. If there is reasonable grounds to believe that an investment by non-canadian could interest to national security, the government can review and investment. In Canadian business by any non-canadian, as we started seeing more companies being taken over by essays. Really the Nixon takeover was a bit of a breaking point. It also stood out to simply because it was so large relative to other investments, so we did see the Harper government move in two thousand, twelve to actually increase the amount of security. For investments and really that's been in place since twenty twelve, and we've been trying to kind of tinker with the details surrounding that, and how often does a really thorough review take place in reality? Every single investment in candidate is subject to not just a net benefit tasks so that it would actually benefit our economy, but also a national security review now not everything goes for an enhanced to review some of the more sensitive. investments in Canada actually go through that process. I'm sure we're all familiar with wild way, which is just been going on for for years at this point but basically it does happen with a fair number of. Companies that are being taken over by state-owned enterprises. Your listeners may be familiar with the CON. Take over or attempted takeover. There was a Chinese state owned enterprise that tried to take over a major Canadian construction firm one that's heavily involved in major Canadian infrastructure projects, and the government eventually said no, that's not okay. There was a satellite firm. However, that was producing. Some some satellites, those concerns that you know, would this actually give sensitive military technology, but the Trudeau government let that one go through. Just before so there's quite a few of these cases. Some of them do become high profile, and it's not always clear on the grounds which they are accepted and not accepted. That's deliberate because the government doesn't want for. An adversaries who want to control the Canadian infrastructure or get access to a sensitive resource to know what those lines are in order to perhaps try and sneak around them. So is a while away then this case that's been under review for quite some time, and with the decision on Mang Juan Zoo. Is this the big litmus test for what's going to happen to these kind of things? Things going forward like how how big is this? Compared to all the rest, a while is big because it has become such a geopolitical concern and you know I. It's interesting it's again. It's not just Canada that struggling with the we have seen this in many countries, and there are a lot of of European countries in particular. Who are asking what candidate is going to do because they know. They know of our relationship with the United States and some of the concerns that have been expressed there but also how we're going to balance concerns about security with. Our our desire to have affordable telecommunications equipment. In the in the country generally so. I think is actually the first of what is going to come in the future I mean. This problem isn't going to be going away anytime soon. We have seed actually. I would say even more concern about foreign investment ever since the pandemic broke out, and in April of this year, the government actually next, even more scrutiny of foreign investments because they're concerned that actually the. Potentially Chinese tone enterprises in particular, but even other authoritarian states might try to take advantage of a weakened Canadian economy and poor. Environment for foreign investment to try and take over these companies in ways that we wouldn't necessarily want them to. So there's going to be even more enhanced scrutiny, and interestingly one of the issues identified was actually helped the health sector which. Has Not traditionally been a national security concern, but now there's concern that because everyone needs p p that everyone is trying to develop a vaccine that technologies that are being developed to actually fight. This virus could be taken over by adversarial states and us in ways that perhaps we wouldn't want to, or that would eventually disadvantage Canadians so I mean it's kind of interesting on how our understanding of national security and its relationship to the economy is constantly changing based on global events. Well I feel like we ever get through any of these episodes these days without asking how covid nineteen has has impacted whatever we're talking about and I. I guess I kind of expected it to to play into this, but maybe not nearly. About much. I think that's right I. mean again. If you had told me six months ago that the health sector would be securitized in this kind of way, I would have probably raised an eyebrow. Right you at the very least I mean. The thing is we need foreign investment. We can't just say no to foreign investment, and that includes foreign investment for China and. For a long time I think we probably would have said well. The health sector is probably one area where we can actually use foreign investment and not worry too much about it because you know you know. Is Not a satellite? It's not a telecommunications network it. It's it's. It's pretty easy for foreign governments to invest in this and not worry about it, but suddenly we're in a different situation so. We're having to securitise these kinds of things. So this is the problem is that? How do you balance our need for foreign investment with? An understanding of what national security aide generally and can we be Nimble enough to make these decisions in time, and in such a way that we can still hopefully have some kind of economy win. This is hopefully over sometime in the next couple of months or years, and this is a real challenge. I think that. The use of economic tools and how that relates to national security is going to be one of the most significant challenges that candidate faces in the next ten years. We don't really have good strategies for this. Because our mantra for the past forty years has been. Let's get the government out of the economy. We don't want the government to interfere in the economy. Business knows best, but suddenly were realizing that actually national security has a role in the economy, but we. We haven't really spent a lot of time trying to figure out what that is and asking some of the hard questions on. When do we say yes? When do we say no? And why and can we develop nimble processes that will help us actually get through some of these difficult decisions in such a way that allows us to thrive, but at the same time per tax, some of our sensitive needs particularly in an age where we may see more global rivalry. So. This is really I think a key challenge for Canada going forward, and it's not clear to me that especially as we're all distracted by this pandemic that we've really put a lot of thought into how we need our national security to engage with the economy. How would you like to see that happen? That's a really good question I. think that and I. Say this as someone who is definitely not an economist, but I think what we need to do is start doing more outreach, and what's interesting is that the ceases in its annual report which was released last week, basically indicated that one. Now sees its role as doing more outreach and explaining to companies why that great investment deal might not be so great, and why that partnership where they give up or share their intellectual property might not be the best strategic move for them, even if it seems like a good idea in the short term, so I think a lot. More conversations have to take place. You know security agencies are not very good at reaching out to. Businesses or sometimes they sit on intelligence mountain, and they don't. They have. They don't really have a tradition of engaging or advising. Private Industry for example on some of the threats that are out there, so I think the first step in we're starting to see this now is having our security services. Sit Down with industry, and at least explaining from their point of view, why some of this behavior by Cedar and enterprises might just be problematic for the Canadian economy. The first step being taken at least well, it's one of a first baby step, but I I, it's I. Get the challenge really is. It's easy for me to sit here in my basement on a hot day here in Ottawa and say that you know we need to worry about. Foreign? Investment is particularly in the north but. If I'm an indigenous person looking for a job in none of it. My concerns are very different. My concerns are probably right now. Making sure I have food on the table and having good jobs and developing my local economies. So this is this is a huge. This conversation also needs to take place is. Can we have this? More security aware economy, while also ensuring that you know we that firms that are up north can actually get the foreign investment that they need. Because frankly a lot of that investment is probably going to come from China Stephanie Thank you for teaching me a lot about this. I feel like I learned a ton. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Stephanie Carbon of the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs at Carleton University. You can find her book this fall. It's called stand on guard, reassessing threats to Canada's National Security Matt was the big story. If you want more big stories, they are at the big story podcast dot ca and we are at the big story F. P. N. on twitter. We are also on email. You can find us at big story podcast at our CI DOT ROGERS DOT COM! We'd love to hear from you whatever you think if you have a story suggestion. Just loved or hated this or any other episode. Send us a note, and finally you can find us on your favorite podcast player. You can tell your friends you can rate us. You can leave us a review me and Clare. Read every single one speaking of glare. She's the lead producer for the big story. Her name is Claire Broussard Ryan Clark and Stephanie Phillips our associate. Producers analysts and Nielsen is our digital editor. Joseph. Fish is our research assistant and I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings thanks for listening have a great weekend. We'll talk Monday.
People Voted On Health Care, Not The Economy: Rep. Eshoo
"Bloomberg peon L is brought to you by Heimer funds. Oppenheimer funds has almost fifty years of experience investing beyond borders to find tomorrow's opportunities. The horizon isn't a boundary. It's an invitation find out more at oppenheimerfund dot com slash global. Welcome to the Bloomberg piano podcast. I'm Pimm FOX along with my co host Lisa Abramowicz. Each day, we bring you the most important note worthy and useful interviews for you and your money. Whether you're at the grocery store or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg PNL podcast on apple podcasts. Soundcloud and Bloomberg dot com. We have broadcasting from Bloomberg's government next twenty eighteen conference in Washington DC and Nova's it to the district would be complete without interviewing someone from the US congress, and we are lucky and fortunate to have congresswoman Anna SU US, Representative course, from California Democrat in California, representing the eighteenth congressional district. This is the heart of Silicon Valley congresswoman, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate your beat before we get to sort the details of health care and success acuity. And all this stuff. Got talk. Just a little bit of politics. Nancy Pelosi will Nancy Pelosi be the next majority leader, she won't be the majority leader. She'll be the speaker speaker of the house, I baked part. Yeah. Will be she will be will it be a fight. Well, I think it already is. And. She's had opposition before. So as she says, this is not a tea party. This is politics, but she will prevail. Do you think that there's enough unity among the Democrats in the house to push forward in a Genda that is ambitious and that can actually gain some traction at this point? I do what do you think are going to be the main sort of tenants of that platform? We'll certainly healthcare was number one in congressional districts across the country. That's not just my definition. But as posters pull apart the numbers and do the examination of why people voted the way they did their top issue was and that's unusual because congressional districts all differ. No, two are exactly the same. But this was the top issue. And it was not surprising to me. But I think too many that. They didn't vote the economy they they voted their own economy. And that is what healthcare costs them. If it's coverage is taken away from them. What it does to families into individuals? So that was the top issue. Do I think the energy and the commitment is there to address these issues certainly members were re elected on these issues. And as you see the outcome. We have an extraordinary new class of members freshman coming in. They too were elected on these issues. And so they have that commitment that come in. They refresh the congress they're going to be really high value added to the congress very exciting, especially the women. Can you offer any details as to what kind of legislation what specifically you would like to see come out of the committee and what? You can reasonably expect in terms of overall passage. Well, I think that number one the the issue of preexisting conditions has to be guaranteed. So the that was all embedded in the Affordable Care Act. Keep in mind that every member was there, Republican or democrat their healthcare coverage is the Affordable Care Act. So you know, there's some hypocrisy that crept into this. But nonetheless, it is it's an essential for coverage. So I think the the Affordable Care Act has been out there for some time. We know what's working what isn't working affordability. You don't have access to anything unless you can afford it. And so Ford ability is a very important to examine to shore up the guarantee of pre existing conditions. And so that needs to be addressed in the at the energy and commerce. Committee first at the health subcommittee on the other committee that I sub committee that I serve on its telecommunications. And and and technology you've been very active in area that internet freedom. Yes. Very much so net neutrality. I think the issues of of the issue of privacy is is a big one. It needs to be addressed. How platforms social platforms are are being used? You know, do you support regulation? Hey, well, I think that we need to examine section to thirty because and when I say examined, I mean examined I don't have a recipe for changing it right now. But I do believe that when you have hate speech that violence follows, and I don't think there's anyone in the country that can defend that. The congress needs to address it just to be clear section two-thirty. This is this was passed as part of the communication decency act of nineteen Ninety-six. Correct. That's the time ago. It was at a lot has changed. A lot of nineteen ninety six. Oh, sure. We didn't have a social media at that time. And there isn't anything wrong with social media per se. But if the platforms are being used for the darker side of nature and out of that darker side comes violence, that's simply is not acceptable or the platforms be used to damage, our democracy that we can't there isn't anyone that can defend that. So these are areas the very serious areas. And I think that the committee should. Not only be involved in it. But in in an examination, but to where it's necessary. Produce sound legislation to address it. I just want to give you about twenty seconds. And I know it's short, but you have a personal experience with refugees. I do with people coming and fleeing country. Yes morning, if you could just share that with people and give us your thoughts on what is happening with immigration currently. Well, my mother and father s children immigrated to the United States with their parents, my grandparents, but they didn't come on a luxury liner they fled persecution. There were Catholics Christians in the Middle East very much minority. And so they fled for their lives. And so I'm a first generation American. And so I see my family in those families that are fleeing persecution as well. Thank you very much for being with us congresswoman, Anna issue US. Representative democrat for representing California's eighteenth congressional district. I am so excited for our next asked Chris almond chief investment officer of calstrs, California state where teachers retirement system, which is based in Sacramento, California with more than two hundred billion dollars of assets under management, Chris the topic of the day is gun safety. But before we get into that. I just want to ask how are you doing with the fires? And and have you seen a lot of the consequences in your area? You know, I get up every morning now. Lisa, and I actually check the achey y the air quality index. It is absolutely remarkable. I tweeted out a picture. My Twitter handle is CJ a the CIO. And my question was is this Beijing China, but no it's actually Sacramento, California. The QR AQHA right now is over two hundred and twenty which is unhealthy the orange. I'm looking at the window. And the sun is a deep orange color, even though it's eight forty five in the morning here. People have are walking around with masks on their face. Yeah. And it's been like this week. So so we know people in paradise, California. It is a beautiful town. And it is gone. It is wiped out. And I've got staff who have relatives that are living with them neighbor who has their friends living with them. These people. Were able to get out just barely in time with the clothes on their backs. So it is very remarkable. I wanna relate this to your vantage point as the chief investment officer of this massive retirement fund. How are you using your money in order to influence things in the way that you would like in other words with the fires, for example, a lot of people are blaming a certain kinds of climate change issues for this. So how are you sort of? How is this coloring your investment thesis? Well, we actually factor in what we call ES and g environmental social and governance issues into everything we do and part of the challenge with climate change. Which is the environmental side is predicting the rate of change in exactly what will happen, and that's an active management decision. So sadly, we have critics on both sides some say, we're not doing enough others say we're doing too much. But you know, I think investors. Investors in particular recognized that something is changing. And they would if you can get out to head of it. Then there's opportunities, but it also represents risks. So in our case, we try and look at our portfolio. We're looking at these kinds of weather pattern changes in how that will impact companies. You're seeing it already in the insurance industry that they're changing pricing on different things. You know? I it's it is a stark new reality. California's always had wildfires and they have at times been bad. The reason they're particularly bad is the the length of drought and the new change which Houston and other places you mentioned earlier this morning have seen if the fact that when you get rain, you get it in abundance, and that leads to massive weed overgrowth in California, which when it dries out turns into fire. So I think all of us are going to firsthand experience changes in our lives that impact us in so many ways. It's and we're challenging and engaging companies to see if they are paying attention and reacting and I have to say a lot of corporate executives are waking up. They're not falling for the political rhetoric. I was gonna ask you while you and Pimm or down there in that flush. Can you can you clean that place up for us? And and get Washington figured out. I got my shovel ready, Chris I'm going out right after the broadcast. But I gotta ask you about changes and engaging investors and companies in a topic that has been the headline just almost every month because of something horrible, and this is gun, safety and gun, manufacturing and firearms. Tell us what you're doing. And what you expect to happen. Thanks, Pimm for bringing me back to the point. And you hit it right on the head, which is institutional investors have been just horrified by the violence that's gone on in American society as a whole in. In our board after Las Vegas last year. And then still majority high school are board, you know, which is primarily comprised of teachers are chair Harry Keeley put forth the motion that we make firearms engagement, our number one effort and priority over everything else. And I got the opportunity to meet up with some people at Harvard, and we put together a task force. And I am thrilled at yesterday, we launched our responsible civilian firearms principles, and you know, in your in the city, you're in Washington, it is so divided. And the discussion is just a almost bipolar one extreme and the other these principles are trying to go right down the middle. They're trying to be sensible and responsible, and you've got a broad spectrum of institutional investors states defined benefit plans 4._0._1._K plans almost five trillion dollars in assets saying as investors in this industry. We're calling on everybody. Easy to step up and enact change than pm. I quoted a lot to seatbelts. You know, not a lot of people. Remember that the auto industry fought seatbelts fearing that people would think cars weren't safe. Now, we don't even give it a second thought Chris hold on a second shelter mandatory. So what gives us one specific example of something that this five trillion dollar, a cohort of investors would like to see done to make guns more safe. I can give you three examples. I guns have serial numbers. But they have the ability to put a serial number on every part. The police would like to see that it makes it easier for them to identify criminals, and and where the guns came from. And we think that's a responsible act for the industry because they want their guns used properly not in not improperly. Another one would be for the retailers. Stop filling out the registration form there are places where the clerks are filling out the registration forms or selling. Multiple guns in one shale Bach. You know, hundreds of them instead of paying attention. And then another one said that it is the responsibility of Washington DC, the background. Check system is archaic. I mean, it's as bad as the voting system in Florida. It's just crazy than this digital day and age that background checks are not done at a national basis and done in three days. Those are simple changes that technology already exists. And we think these would be material things would make the industry badger. So we're gonna engage manufacturers finance distribution and retail every every part of the chain to to step up, and and be more responsible. And and make these products a bit safer kind of like seatbelts. It's not gonna stop the horrible incidents all the time that pin mentioned, but we're hoping that we can make some improvements. Well done. Thank you very much. Chris Aleman chief investment officer calstrs stirs. This is the California state teachers retirement system assets under management to more than two hundred and twenty billion dollars joining us from Sacramento, California. Speaking about a new initiative in the investment industry for responsible gun ownership in our hearts, go out to everybody in California dealing with fires and all the best trying to get them out and get safe. Bloomberg PNL is brought to you by Oppenheimer funds. What percentage of global GDP is the United States half two-thirds? Guess again America is just twenty four percent, which means that seventy six percent of global GDP comes from outside the United States up in Heimer funds believes opportunity. Look similar in every language with almost fifty years of experience investing beyond borders to find tomorrow's opportunities up in Heimer funds knows the horizon isn't a boundary. It's an invitation find out more at all. Oppenheimerfund dot com slash global. This is Bloomberg markets with been vox and Lisa Abramowicz on Bloomberg radio. We are broadcasting from Bloomberg's government next twenty eighteen conference in a snowy, Washington DC, and our topic. Now is privacy, cyber security and hacking threats all electron ick all something that is in the purview of the government here to help us understand the issue. Moore is Tom gone. He is the chief public policy officer for McAfee. They are based of course in Santa Clara. Thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it. What is the biggest issue for you right now? There are a lot of issues cybersea. We can go on you know, but you can't do everything at once. What is the top thing on your plate? Well, the biggest thing for us at McAfee is really continuing to drive innovation. Putting a lot of focus on security in the cloud ensuring that our solutions. Work well between the end point and the cloud because that's where we think all the action is and public policies that support outcomes that work well for our customers is job number one. Do you think that representatives elected representatives fully understand the risks at play and the issues as you discuss it with them? So that's a really interesting question. If I went back ten years ago, I would say that most elected officials really didn't have any appreciation for cybersecurity. I remember being in a skiff years ago with about ten senators and skiff is a very sort of private area. That is restricted right. Yes. And they were asking such good questions about the threat landscape. But it was clear that everything that we were telling them was really new news today in similar type environments when the threat landscape is discussed no one disputes that the threats are real the threat actors are significant state actors terrorist organizations criminal organizations, I think what is new today is just getting a handle on the innovation. That's occurring on the hacker side innovation on the hacker side is oftentimes exceeding innovation on, the private sector and governmental side, and that's why in many ways, we still see an imbalance. Well, before we started the conversation. I asked you whether your iphone was hacked in other words, you just assume that someone or something has access to it and you had one response. And then you said, but you don't do transactions on your iphone? Well, I guess I'm paranoid being in the cybersecurity industry. I focus on doing my transactions of the most important kind with one PC that only interacts with a small number of actors that gives me a higher degree of confidence. I think it's a good practice. That said I don't worry too much about my iphone. I limit the kinds of transactions. I do on it and the security in iphones are actually quite good, which countries are sort of spewing out the most sophisticated mal wear or hacking advances that are exceeding the advances in the private governmental sectors in the US. Will according to the published reports from the US intelligence services. It's really the big four China Russia, Iran, and you know, then you certainly see a range of. Of criminal organizations that are becoming ever more capable. So just I'm wondering, do you have a sense of what these groups are trying to get at what information to they want? There are different objectives for different actors. If you're large nation state. You may be more interested in the theft of clutch property, you may be more interested in getting insight on intelligence military operations to support your long-term ten twenty thirty year planning cycles, if you're a criminal organization, or maybe I had failed mentioned North Korea. Which is actually the last of the big four you may leverage cyber attacks to actually fund your nation state activities. You know, if you're in the leadership of North Korea getting a couple of billion dollars a year in hard currency to support lifestyle, you know, becomes very important using cyber capabilities to help achieve those. Financial ends can be an important objective of the state of that kind. To the top level executives at a security company. Like McAfee do they utilize a virtual private network to communicate confidential information? Well, the communications that we do our on our own network that secured through our technology, but it is the same kind of solution set that we sell to large organizations, we're big believers and eating our own dog food, and we have a high degree of confidence in our solutions that protect our own organizations, and because of that we can confidently talk to customers about their solution needs which sector in the private sector in the United States. Do you think is most at risk of being hacked? Well, I think they're all at risk that said the top ones traditionally have been financed because folks like to go with the money is and then also the government that's where so many secrets reside. And then also innovators where there's intellectual property of great value that can support economic development and the achievement of national objectives. These are all critical areas that are at risk. Do you consider social media and the creation of false backers and false posting is that in your bailiwick is that considered a cybercrime? It's version of cybercrime in the sense that it uses it excuse me it utilizes technical means to achieve political and social objectives. And so the co mingling of technical capabilities with a traditional nation state disinformation. I think is in many ways the cutting edge of the risk profile because it has the greatest potential to do damage to our democracy, our confidence in democracy, and to me that is the greatest treasure that we must protect. So there are some pretty strict data privacy regulations took effect in Europe about six months ago. Do you expect anything similar to get implemented in the United States over the next few years? It's certainly possible. There's been enough pressure in the system building for privacy legislation to get some traction, the large breaches Cambridge Analytica for exam. Simple in the other thing to remember is US companies by and large have been getting ready to comply with GDP are so many of those investments have already taken place. The added lift to federalize privacy rules such that they're more efficient, but the their teeth are. Sounder certainly is something that is cheerful. Whether that occurs. We'll have to see thank you very much for being with us and sharing. All this information. Tom Gan is the chief public policy officer at McAfee. Today. Acreage holdings had initial public offering on the Canadian stock exchange winningest now is the chief executive of that company. Kevin Murphy joining us from New York. Kevin, congratulations. Can you tell us a little bit about why decided to file in Canada for this IPO, and what the benefits are of being public for you throwing in Canada is really the best option for us. And today, unfortunately, it's the only option for us. We're not yet. Welcome here in the US on the new York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ. So we've chosen to go north, and we feel that the Canadian today are leading the capital markets as it relates to cannabis. Can you tell us a little bit about the financial underpinnings of the industry in terms of how are you able at least in the United States to Bank the cannabis industry? We'll give it our scale and size and curly today were an eighteen states. We do have an ARA Ford. It banking is predominantly on the local side, but we have banks in all eighteen states in which we operate smaller. Operators. Don't have the luxury. It is a differentiator for us. But it's an unfair differentiator. We're looking really Dow's in nineteen for the state deck to pass we believe that would satisfy the banking as well. So we're optimistic for two thousand and nineteen and could be better position for it. So let's talk a little bit about acreage. It's a medical marijuana company. It has a backing from John bainer, formerly the speaker of the house who is a Republican and was formerly also opposed to marijuana legalization. What do you see going forward as the potential biggest potential opportunity for your business? I believe that this time it really catching lightning in a bottle. We could not be in better physician with the midterm elections coming and going, and it was as much about who was elected as to who was not elected. And for the first time, we're truly seeing the people of the United States being heard as relates to cannabis reformed. And so you see it would only governor in Connecticut. Governor now being elected pro cannabis and more and more people are really having access to we believed to be a miracle plant. So we believe that the sea change is taking place, and it's evident with what we believed to be a good policy change. Now, the company is you mentioned having gone a public. This is formerly applied inventions management in high street capital. Partners. Correct. Those are the two involved that is to wrecked. We have done a reverse merger into said company, and frankly to us it was the path of lease assistance. It saves that the most time and today is our first day of trading could not be more pleased in more proud of the effort that had gone in to making that a reality. Kevin who's your biggest competitor? You know, it's a good question. We see everyone in this business, not necessarily as a competitor. But we see all as frankly carrying the flag. We have found that in every state where we see more and more players more competitive, and frankly, better players that are abiding by regulations and providing safe predictable medicine, they use it in those states goes up. So the fact is that more is better in these states. We have a lot of folks that we admire, but we don't truly see them as competitors that you've raised over three hundred million dollars as part of the initial public offering where you're going to spend that money is it going to go to acquiring other companies you've done that in the past or you're going to build out organically. All the above. Our goal is to continue being the leader in this country as early the size scale and really personnel. So we'll use it for acquisition along with the stock that will now be trading on the Canadian stock exchange will look at two in crease our footprint, hire additional experts and alternately build brands in the states that will resonate for years to come. Do you expect that are you banking on a full broad legalisation in the United States of medical marijuana? I know that state by state there was there were a few states that did did legalize this in the midterm elections. But what do you expect an abroad broad base level? You will it be today? We have thirty three medical state ten of which are recreational state. And I believe the state Dak will be the first window of opportunity to really receive a fair tax code in this country. Have the ability for everyone, not just US Bank this business and that look forward us the opportunity to grow state by state. I believe that it will necessarily go. Federally legal for a little time to come. But having clarity with the state is going to be a great first step in really legitimizing, the fastest growing industry in the United States today. Just quickly give you about fifteen seconds here. Kevin prime minister, prime minister of Canada. Brian Mulroney has joined the board of directors is he behind the product as well as the idea. Will he certainly behind compassionate care for others nut, you know, one doesn't necessarily need to use the pro the product to be an advocate for sake predictable medicine for people that need it. So we couldn't be more pleased and proud to have the prime minister along with John bainer and Bill. Well, thanks very much Bill. Well, of course, the former governor of Massachusetts, thanks very much. Kevin Murphy chief executive, acreage holdings. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg peon L podcast. You can subscribe. And listen to interviews at apple podcasts. Soundcloud, or whatever podcast platform, you prefer. I'm Pimm FOX. I'm on Twitter at Pimm FOX. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramowicz. One before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg radio. Bloomberg PNL is brought to you by Oppenheimer funds. Oppenheimer funds has almost fifty years of experience investing beyond borders to find tomorrow's opportunities. The horizon isn't a boundary. It's an invitation find out more at oppenheimerfund dot com slash global.
Will the New NAFTA Deliver?
"Podcast is brought to you by knowledge award. President Trump claiming victory in a new deal, reached with candidate, revise the North American tree, fragrant tree, fray, three, see me free trade agreement. Mexico had already signed onto this new trade pact similar to NAFTA, but rebranded US MCA for United States, Mexico Canada agreement. So what does this new deal include in? What does it mean for the continuing trade disputes with China Mackel joins us on the phone. He's and adjunct professor at Fordham university and they former deputy assistant US trade Representative for North America, and also joining us is Andrea Bjorklund who is chair in international arbitration and international commercial law at McGill faculty of law in Montreal. Andrea also formerly worked on the State Department's NAFTA arbitration team in the office of the legal adviser and worked for Commissioner Thelma Ascii on the US international. Trade commission, Matt Andrey. Great, avid with us today. Thank you both. Thanks for having an thank you. Great to be here. Thank you. So looking at the agreement mad, how do you, how do you view what was actually put down on paper? What we expect to be put down on paper in the next couple of weeks. It's a large series of updates. You know, I, it's best to talk about what it isn't. It's not going to bring back manufacturing jobs from Mexico, and it's not going to eliminate or even meaningfully reduce our trade deficit with Mexico. But it's, it also doesn't include almost any of series of things that President Trump was demanding that involve actual concessions from Mexico and Canada, but what it is, what it does have is a very large number of updates improvements. Things that we've seen in other free trade agreements of the United States has negotiated and an intern into since we entered into NAFTA twenty five years ago and things that were in the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement that that Mexico, Canada and the United States were all part of along with nine other countries with President Trump pulled us out of. So it was a lot of catchup all getting back with Mexico and Canada. A lot of more modern free trade agreement terms that we put into the TPP agreement and that we were going to have a Mexican candidate through the TPP greement. But that President Trump gave up when he was drew from the TPP. So now we got back in NAFTA Andrew, what's been your reaction? Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. It's not a, it's not a sea change except perhaps in the area of investor dispute settlement. The chapter eleven of NAFTA which under the this new agreement would be well would be eliminated as such. There'd be a three year legacy legacy period. These are for claims brought by foreign investors against ho states. So chapter eleven, as we know it would end there would be a a remnant of that as between the United States and Mexico only so Canadian investors in the US and US investors in Canada after three or immplementation period would not be able to submit those claims. So that's a difference. What. It's been the reaction in Canada to this because part of this in the last few weeks has been the comments by prime minister Trudeau of, you know, we wanna make sure that we get a good deal for Canada. Well, I'm in Quebec, and of course the dairy industry here is not at all pleased that there work concessions made on supply management and some really quite modest in aggregate terms opening of the market to US dairy products. But I think any opening here is not viewed favourably. So at least on a on a local level, I don't think the new agreement has been welcomed. One of the key components in that part of Canada. Yes. Bad. How do you, how do you think that we need to move forward with this? Because obviously, a lot of the talker that we've had with you in the past has been, you know, what is going to change with the auto industry. You know, part of this with Mexico was the upping of of wages for people working on vehicles down there in Mexico, and also the part of of the automobile sector where the percentage of the vehicle actually needed to be made here in the United States. Yeah, the two of you just touched on the probably the only two things that are in this agreement that are are truly new, indifferent, and very interesting that are more than just updates per recent agreements. United States negotiate with other countries, but in fact, are actually updates. Our new one of them is, are the changes with that. We just heard about investor state. The US has put these investor state chapters in these investor state provision in all. Our recent free trade agreements. This is the first time we're scaling back on that and going the other direction, which I think is a bad thing. I think it's being driven by the fact that people don't understand how the investor state rules work, but I'll skip that and go go to your question and for the rules of origin. That's the other thing previously, if a car sampled in Mexico and it, we're, we're come to the United States, Canada. Duty-free would have to have had sixty two and a half percent of its content would have to come from North America meeting parts from one of the three North American countries, the value of those parts plus the value of the Mexican assembly that's been increased on paper. The increases from sixty two and a half percent to seventy five percent. In reality, it's more of an increase from sixty two and a half to seventy and the reasons because they're are have to study this a little bit more. But from what we've, we understand that there's certain content that's allowed that they're allowed to count in those numbers that they weren't allowed to count before. Right. But it isn't increase. North American content, and there's a groundbreaking rule that we've never seen before, which certain portion of the content has to come from a labor that was paid sixteen dollars an hour or more, and that's very interesting and that and that may very well have an impact on what happens with the production of vehicles down in Mexico, correct? Yeah. I mean, it will probably have a small impact on supply chain, but we're not sure how much because we're not sure what for show these vehicles or ready have labor that's sixteen dollars an hour or more to begin with these people's always had Canadian American parts whose labors is paid more than sixteen dollars an hour. And now they're allowed to account to count into this design content and the engineers who do the design for cars also get paid more than that. So we're not sure the content of cars already have is going to make up all or most of this requirement, but they might need some additional parts that are sixteen dollars an hour more. And that would mean sourcing. More parts in Mexico in the United States or Canada, or in mean raising labor rates for some of the Mexican workers. We're not sure how much they're going to have to change if at all, and we're not sure how the change is going to manifest or Mexican workers going to get paid more or they're going to buy more parts from the United States, Canada. Andhra. Yeah, I agree. I guess I just add to that. The other difference which is robotic threat is mechanize labor. And to what extent already cars are using, our manufacturers are using a mechanize labor to to do some of the kind of repetitive work that tends to be lower paid. That's probably going to increase, you know is has been increasing and is going to increase anyway. So the actual impact of this sixteen dollar an hour requirement is I agree, somewhat, somewhat uncertain. It's a selling point, but whether it really has a significant impact is I think still unclear, joined all the. The phone by MAC, old of Fordham university, Andrea Bjorklund of McGill faculty of lie in macho, Canada, eight, four, four, nine, four, two, seven, eight, six, six. Or if you'd like to comment on Twitter at is radio one, thirty, two or my Twitter account, which is at Dan looney Twenty-one, Matt. How do you think that than the farming community here in the United States? I've seen comments that that they say that they are happy with this deal. How should they be reacting because they were in the midst and probably still are in the midst of this concern because of tariffs that they were going to be losing a significant amount of their revenue, the government was going to be supporting them for the time being. How should farmers feel two inches one for agriculture. Generally the other dairy for agriculture. Generally, it's a huge cyber leaf for them. You know, I've been saying for two years and you're an Andrew two hundred times. United States not pulling out of NAFTA. The threat was a bluff. Most people weren't confident the way I was and the uncertainty of the threat of. Out of NAFTA was very, very worrisome to agriculture. US are not to mention the fact that President Trump's w to WTO illegal tariffs on Canadian Mexican steel and aluminum brought retaliation from Mexico and Canada. Some of which was on US agriculture agriculture. A little bit had lost a little bit of their markets in Mexico and Canada, and they were worried about losing more plus. They're worried about losing markets in China. So there was a lot of nervous and this is a great five relief for the US airy sector. You know, the US sector really. Cut very little in Canada loft very little. The two problems were solved. One was the tra- Filton milk problem without explaining what that is. Just simply say that it's a problem that was created in two thousand sixteen because of President Trump because of what he was saying on the campaign trail is literally a problem to Canada created so that they could then let Trump solve it two years later and declare victory on dairy. The other issue was the special Canadian tariffs on other US dairy products that are not ultra filter mil. Those have been around for decades and decades and decades, and we wanted more access to the Canadian market. A little bit of our dairy gets into Canada without having to pay those those prohibitively high tariffs. And they opened up the market to a little bit more, but they open it up to pretty much what we got into the TPP and President Trump kind of threw that away when he threw out of TV p. So again, it's catchup all with the TV Andrew. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's hard not to say that it would have been in much more efficient simply to for the United States to state. Teepee and we would have avoided all of the Sturman drawing of the last, you know, thirteen months on renegotiating NAFTA. But after all, what would what would we talk about? Well, what about the lumber sector up up in Canada? Andrew, because that's also been a concern over the last several months. Well, that has to be counted as victory for Canada. They what Canada managed with keep what went in. NAFTA was chapter nineteen, which permits binational panel review of administrative decisions on anti-dumping countervailing duties. This was actually part of the candidate US free trade agreements brainchild of Brian Mulroney and was a way to, I guess, have legalists, legal resolution of the perennial lumber suffered lumber problem between the US and Canada town of got to keep this. It's very important for Canada, whether in practice it makes an enormous amount of differences. Perhaps. A into question, but this permits Canada have non US courts decide kind of review the decisions of American administrative agencies about imposing countervailing duties on on softwood lumber and for Canada. That's politically extremely important. Any surprise that in the process of doing all this, that we still are still have the steel tariffs in place. Great question. The field tariffs are completely illegal, but they're illegal under the World Trade Organization agreements, but NAFTA is sort of integrated with the WTO grievance. They worked together other also illegal under NAFTA as well. I mean, they violate both of green. It is really surprising. Actually, a one would have thought that Canada Mexico would not have agreed to anything unless elimination still loom terrace on Canadian and Mexican stealing aluminum what's part of the deal, but they tolerated not doing that. And I think they reach the conclusion that resolving NAFTA would would pants down the animosity and all three sides and maybe open the door to resolve seal aluminum. They might also have had a signal that President Trump would be much more flexible in that after the US midterm elections, right? Still aluminum or just. A staggering negative for the United States in every way, except for President Trump's personal politics so they might be able to to get they might have thought they were. They would be to their advantage. Just put off that issue, telephony Mitchell. Yeah, I agree. That seems entirely entirely plausible. They're certainly history of using spilled Harrison particular in a in a in a political way we had in prior to, oh gosh, that was the two thousand elections or now losing the numbers, but doesn't elections. You had tariffs imposed on steel and they were removed. They were found illegal by the WTO and removed immediately without a squawk after the elections were terminated. So I think that's entirely plausible. Bring up an inch input Indra through this is that in terms of the timeframe we, we all knew that that part of this wanting to get this deal done by President Trump now was to be a benefit politically, going into the midterm elections. It something that you know he could use as see what I got done and especially concerning of the people in middle America. The farmers. A lot of people who were who voted for President Trump in two thousand sixteen. Yeah, you know, it's hard to. I don't know politics in the US right now are hard to hard to figure out, but. The, you know, I would say that a majority of the farmers middle America were probably going to vote Republican anyway, you know, the the districts in which we're seeing perhaps a Blue Wave in which the Democrats might overtake are not in in the heartland or not largely in the heartland. So I, I'm not sure that that's going to be a huge, a huge difference. Make a huge difference in the elections. Yeah, I just grea-. I think that it was critical for one thing. President from, of course, made a lot of promises in campaign trail, but I think the promise to bring back a lost manufacturing jobs through an overhaul of NAFTA. It was probably the one promise more than any other single promise that he was elected for and he needed to show some kind of success. He's also got a lot of criticism from people like me for for his trade policy, and he wanted to show that that is, you know, bullying and noxious. The global stage actually works out in translates to America, having more leverage and trade negotiations which doesn't, but he wanted to make it look like a, did you know, failing and then declaring victory is what he did with the renegotiation of Korean US trade agreement. It's what he did with the Europeans and John club. You came over here to to shake hands and declare victory in the trade negotiations with Europe. Both those cases he got literally zero concessions, declare victory in. He got, you know, we've got a lot of changes that are mutually benefit all three countries, but the real concessions. He got very, very few though. So it is politics. It is critical for the midterms. In my opinion, there are a lot of purple states that swing back and forth to have agriculture. So yeah, I think I think it's almost all politics. What what I met. One of the things we talked about before was also ecommerce and I believe that is also something that was was dressed in this as well. Yeah, that's true. It's a classic example of things that are mutually beneficial. All three countries, you know, agreeing not to impede cross border data flows agreeing not to have hustles duties on software agreeing, you know not to have a local data storage requirements. So if you're a Canadian business, like Canadian Bank doing business in the United States, United states require you to store your data locally except when we need for national security purposes, those kinds of agreements are mutually beneficial. All three countries. It's also. The three countries agreeing to do things that none of them were doing green to not do things that none of them were doing another. None of them planned to do. But you know, these are still part of the update of NAFTA things that we see other agreements and these are these are part of the update while Android that that seemingly is something that is long overdue and and I think it's one of the things we've talked about in terms of kind of updating. A lot of things is making sure that we are in line with what we need to be because e commerce is so big right now and seemingly his only gonna get bigger in the years to come. Yep. Yeah. No, I think you know, I agree with this is an update. It's an important update and might be beneficial. I mean to US merchants who are certainly further ahead in terms of their their e retailing. But again, not a not a huge sea change, but an important in different. There was another piece to the that I saw in looking at some of the articles and I wanted to bring it up to you. Andrea is, is the fact that it also mentioned about drug companies, and one of the things it mentioned was that that drug companies in the US will get two more years of protection against generic drugs from Canada. How big of an industry is generic drugs in Canada? Right now, it's, it's really it's a really huge industry, and I think that is something you know, glad you brought that up. I think that is something of a victory for the United States and maybe a little bit surprising that Canada was willing to to give up on that or to give the the two further years of. Section which affects, I mean not just the generic industry here, but also healthcare policy, which is you know, much more centralized than it is in the United States. Well, I just to be clear those biologic drug shifts drugs and biologic, but it's important to remember the battle over the over the period of of what is sensually like a patent for biological drugs was a big battle teepee negotiations as well. It's important to remember that you don't have one country one side of this issue in another country. Other side, you don't even have polka parties opposite sides. You don't have demographics and opposite sides. Literally every person in the United States and every person in Canada, Mexico is on both sides of that issue. The the longer you you provide protection for for a new drug for a drug company, the greater incentive. They have to to invest money and research and development of new drugs. The downside of course, is that drugs remain more expensive for a longer period of time before become generic. So. Every person's on both sides that everybody wants their brand drugs go generic sooner and get cheaper faster. But everyone also wants drug companies develop new drugs that have fewer side effects better efficacy so and so forth. Every single person's on both sides that issue. And it's really not as sort of a trade battle or demographic battle or political battle in any of these countries. It's really a policy discussion about what's best overall, any concern that congress might do something to this agreement, Matt? No, no, everyone else's concerns. I'm I guess I'm a maverick more than one thing, but no, not at all. The congress is going to approve this, and there will be a very different congress starting January first. So when it comes time to approve this, we're going to see the president's neighbors no longer controlling the house of representatives. And it's at least possible. They'll no longer be controlling the Senate. They will still approve this agreement. Why? Because it's a net positive for the United States is a better more modern agreement. You could argue as I would that. President Trump managing the way that it's so much more damage than necessary. And ultimately, the damage he did is not worth the gains that we got, but the damage is behind us. It's already done. And if you just look at at the own after versus the new after there's literally no reason not to approve it, it's it's an improvement. So now the conversation turns to, it sounds like turns to China, correct? That's correct. The conversation turns to China things or much uglier for President Trump strategy with China, you know, with with with South Korea, Europe and North America, he really didn't -ccomplish hardly anything, but he was able to declare victory and end at least once things got resolved. He was no longer doing damage, but with China, my view and I've done a lot of analysis on this list of the public statements and a lot of other things, and I think China's and made it decision that they were going to wait for the next American president. So the United States in China have gone into a downward spiral down in the basement. We impose retaliatory. Tariffs on them, they retaliated against retaliation back and forth and back and forth. And now there we have retaliatory tariffs on two hundred and fifty billion dollars of Chinese because it's half of everything imported the United States, and they've got retaliatory tariffs on a hundred, ten billion of American goods in place or or about to be put in place, which is which is almost all the thing goods that were exporting their and everyone's stuck. Now, a no one has a way out. No one has an exit ramp. President Trump isn't gonna pull out because he, he won't admit that this was an incredible blunder and the Chinese understand that no American president from either side of the aisle, no Republican, American president or democrat would ever do this and would ever maintain this after coming to office other than President Trump's, they're gonna wait. They're gonna. They see him losing parter all the congress, and they're gonna wait two thousand twenty and see. See if if they can resolve this with the new president, Andrew, I think that's various student, and I think that's absolutely right. I, you know, the China does not respond to public opinion in public. Nick pressures in the way that the United States does. Even even President Trump might depending on his perceptions about what is beneficial for him and what isn't and so is completely capable of of digging in and playing the long game. And I don't think they should be underestimated. So then they address this question. I think to a lot of the consumers out there right now with all of these terrorists between the United States in China, how much of an impact or when will consumer start to see some of the impacts from these terrorist? Because I don't think they've seen him up to this point very much at all. Correct. I think the best, yeah. I think the best guesses that they're gonna start to see them possibly as early as the Christmas season. And then into the new year, there was a lot of stockpiling of merchandise in the last several months to I mean in to try to get in before the tariffs actually kicked in. So you have some inventories on hah. Hand, but that will end query whether that it re- incites another round of tariffs because the trade deficit is almost certainly going to go up for the United States because all of these these purchases, which will not make President Trump happy. And. But of course, the other thing that we see with consumer prices is that they are spread out that the damage if you will is real, but is very dispersed and it's often difficult to draw the causal link for a consumer to draw the causal link from. I don't know the terrorists to the way that the TV now costs, you know, forty or fifty dollars more than it would otherwise thoughts. I think President Trump, yeah, I agree with what Andrew just said, but I want to add that. I think President Trump is now gonna point where he realizes that is of moves when national security Taras in retaliatory towers blunders, he still loom tariff. You thought he was going to get a other countries to respond in a positive way and give us concessions instead. All they did was retaliate. Then he threatened to do automotive national security tariffs just like the feeling aluminum, but he backed off of those threats. The pretend deal with the Europeans, they, we could back off of that threat and the NAFTA deal get some face as we can back off the the, the threat of national security tariffs on automotive Canada, Mexico. He's backing off of the next step of national security tariffs, and and I think if I had to get guess that he might back off of the next round of China, we've gone three rounds retaliation against retaliation. US acting three times China acting three times and. The the next round would be another two hundred fifty tariff on hundred fifty billion dollars more of China's Chinese goods. So go from a total to fifty billion to five hundred billion, which all Chinese exports the United States. I suspect he's not gonna take that last step because at this point he now knows that he's simply not getting no response that he wanted. He's getting the exact opposite, which is exactly the response. You don't want great having you both of his. Thank you. Thank you, Andrea all the best today. Thank you. Thank you Mak old from Fordham university, Andrew Bjorklund from McGill faculty of law in Montreal. For more insight from knowledge Warton. Please visit knowledge dot Morton, dot u. Penn dot EDU.
The Truth Behind the Steele Dossier
"Hi this is Mike. PESCA host of the gist an ad supported. podcast don't believe me. Listen to this so if you've ever wanted to start your own podcast you might thank. You need all kinds of equipment to set it up I mean and you do. We have an axiom. I Q console with eight modules. I'm talking into an electro voice twenty. But you don't need all that. What you you need is anchor? Anchor is an all in one free tool from spotify that leads you create your own podcast and get it heard everywhere with anchor you can record edit be heard on all listening platforms and they'll even pair you with sponsors to. I'll be get paid for your show. It all works in your web browser right from anchors mobile APP and best of all. It's totally free. Start Your podcast with anchor today by going to anchor dot. FM Slash the gist. That's anchor DOT FM slash. The gist first. This podcast may contain explicit language and feel free to use explicit language. When you review the gist on itunes? It helps other people find the show. it's Friday December. Six thousand nineteen from sleet. It's the gist. I might ask the other day. I praise Chuck Todd and you no. He deserved my praise. But do not think I'm going on wobbly on my general disc Pepsi at towards our interlocutors. There is a chuck todd tendency and I would like to highlight and thereby radically Elliot. How it works in my brain and this is a good time to bring it up because this pretty much right now? This is the weekend that will determine the college football playoffs now. Maybe you're thinking as I just said that I don't care about the college football playoffs. Yeah maybe you don't maybe just like listening to podcast and watching it shows about politics so you like what about say or what. I'm about to highlight because what I would like to do is give you some idea of this tendency of chuck. Todd's it's not endemic Democrat. Chuck Todd but it is somewhat of an epidemic with chuck. Todd here this just from last weekend Senator Amy Klobuchar Democrat from Minnesota. Sorry sorry about the University of Minnesota yesterday. Hey that is triggered. Ball was in her report. That was democratic. Senator Amy Klobuchar Kluber Char as you can tell. Here's a Republican senator. John Kennedy of Louisiana. We will leave it there. Senator Kennedy Republican from Louisiana. You guys didn't get tripped up this weekend so LSU's clear sailing for next week but don't blow it college football sometimes. It's baseball sometimes. It's another sport but Chuck Todd Miami Hurricanes. Arcane Fan always finds a chance to bond over College Football Ohio it settles all Disputes Be Republican Democrat. Crat or crazy conspiracy pro Ukrainian republican like Senator Kennedy no matter how tough the questions chuck. Todd thanks little college. Football bonding always the proper tonic. Let me say this and I vow to you right here right now to you my listeners that I will vote for for any politician who when confronted with Chuck. Todd solicitude on the topic of college. Football says something like you know. I actually don't care for college sports and you know just the man to do it right. Well we'll have to leave it there. Senator Sanders thanks for coming on. I see your home. State state. College team is on the ice tonight. Good luck to the catamounts. So retook cannot abide the indentured servitude nature of college sports. Plus Vermont's one nine and terrible with terrible chuck. You get my vote on the show. Today I should feel about cory. Booker's explanation Asian for Wycombe Harris dropped out but I the researchers who hired steel to put together this Steele L. dossier have been dragged through the mud by defenders of Donald Trump but in truth Glenn Simpson and his fusion. GPS Partner Peter Fritsch Are In fact top notch researchers who on Earth a lot of Info that is deserving of airing Glenn. Simpson stopped by to talk about out his history as a journalist researcher and a participant in a presidential investigation in this episode is brought to you by all birds. Everyone loves a gift. They can feel good in and good about in every giver wants to give the best gift all birds of the perfect shoot a gift to get this holiday season. So if you're gifter sure getter or griff ter- or regret her. All birds are good for you. Unless you're a gifted because all birds are the bonafide thing the real deal. They're stylish they're comfortable. They're sustainable. I'm wearing them right now. I'm wearing the kind of birds shoes known as the toppers there like high. Hi Tops but all birds way to just calm high tops mine. Are this nice very nice texture and the shoelaces they're like the don noodles models of laces. They have a large islet and a large aglet. When the aglet cousin the islet you know you have arrived? All birds are are the perfect gift to make the holidays a little less uncomfortable for everyone on your list. Give the gift of comfort this holiday season or get a pair for yourself at all. BIRDS DOT com the steele dossier fusion. GPS Ukraine Paul Manafort Oleg Derek Skyro- ostrich skin jackets. It's all there in crime in progress inside the steele dossier and the fusion. GPS investigation of Donald Trump by the men who were the CO founders of fusion GPS who hired steel to assemble. What became known as dossier which was actually a collection of over or seventeen documents? Glenn Simpson and Peter Fritsch. Are Those men Glenn. Simpson joins me now. Thanks for coming on Glenn so there is a scene in the book. When you first I get the first report? The first portion of what would become known as the steele dossier and you and your partner. Peter Fritsch reading it in your room and you say and I say this on this show fuck. was there ever moment like that pre steele dossier just his dealings. That may have convinced you. This is not a guy who should be president but were there any. Oh fuck moments that you think. The media or his political rivals didn't follow up on well. There was definitely an avocado shit. Moment Win Paul Manafort you know walked onto the seen. This was someone that my partner and I had covered at the Wall Street Journal. We knew about his dealings with various oligarchs in the the former Soviet Union from stories we'd written about him at the Journal so he was certainly not someone who is fit and proper to be helming presidential campaign and there was definitely an ocean moment. What the Hell is he doing? Here was Christopher Steele. Someone you knew. From your days of journalism he was not we sort of live parallel lives. We worked on a lot of the same issues and then we retired retired at almost the exact same time in two thousand nine and so we were introduced by mutual friends in two thousand ten because they knew of our shared interest in Kleptocracy Oligarchs allegories. Yes I think in the book you point out you know you're both born in nineteen sixty four. You both had similar careers. You're both like you said parallel lives. What what could Christopher Steele find via his methods and connections that you couldn't via your skills as a journalist or what you were doing at fusion? GPS WELL SO. I was document hound as they call journalism when I was in journalism so my specialty really is finding public records and sometimes you know in in hidden places and that that sort of thing but generally it's a it's a public records oriented job that became even more so after I left the newspaper I was unable to approach people directly to to interview them because most of the time my clients don't allow me to do that or allow me to say who I'm working for so left behind the interviewing side of journalism when when I started my business Chris on the other hand is an expert in finding ways to interview. People gather human intelligence as it's called which is a skill that carries over from his work in the Bush government. So there's some stuff you know. Romanians running around or whatever that I don't know that has been proved or disproved but let's just take possibly the Michael Cohen visiting Prague. He says he never did it. And he essentially turned state's evidence and was pretty honest about a lot of his misdeeds and served time on that so that led a lot of observers fair-minded observers chemists one to say okay. Maybe that wasn't true and I've heard and read and interviews but you could characterize it how you'd like okay. Maybe that is likely doubtful. Why was that in there? And what's your analysis of why the dossier got it wrong if it did get it wrong. Well what we say about this. The book is that you know. Doubts have been raised about the accuracy of this account. We go on to say and I still think today that in general we believe lead. This story is information was provided to us as credible we of course have a little bit of insight into where it comes from and we can say. Hey that subsequent efforts to look into this have not dissuaded us or made us think that this is somehow made up having said that is there. Some noise is in the reporting. That would be unsurprising anytime that you're gathering information from human beings. There's always some you know there's always some noise in the reporting so you got witnesses car accident. One guy says the car was going fifty miles an hour. He sure of it. The other says no no it was thirty. Five one guy says a car was aqua. The other one says it's blue blue. I mean that's normal. So is there something inaccurate about this happy to accept that in fact we would be happy to accept it if it turns out to be not true at all because this is not you know the Bible or tablets this is you know a piece of field reporting in which you would expect not everything would turn out to be exactly right if the tape. The reports of golden showers which originally made you say. Oh fuck if that forever remains unproved. We don't know one way or the the other. Do you regret that it was in the report. I regret that it turned out to be the distraction that it was and I think it really diverted people's attention from from the much more important finding which was that the government of Russia was conducting a covert operation to elect donald trump the president Z.. Night States and that at some level Donald Trump was witting to this and encouraging it and cooperating in it and that really was always always the thing that freaked me out and concerned me and that I thought was the thing that needed to be dealt with by. US law enforcement. What we don't regret is not not tinkering with Chris's work in any way and we felt that you know it would be wrong for us to sort of edit his reports? It's in any way in sort of anticipation of how things might be received. We just you know he wanted to give this stuff to the FBI. He's the National Security Guy. We're ex journalists. We said Chris if you believe that this needs to be done and this is the right thing to do. Then you go ahead and do it and we certainly don't regret that at all now. The theory of the why Russia would Do these golden shower exercises to develop comprom- aunt on trump. I've a few questions about that. Don't they already have much better compromise. How Great Kompromat amount would be but I mean the the allegation that trump watched it? He stood there while it happened. Okay I don't know how horribly embarrassing that is. Does he act like someone who who has specific compromise on him versus. Maybe some of his other motivations which is he'd like to do business with Russia. Well I mean I agree with a lot of what you just said. It never seemed to me like this was the best piece of blackmail because donald trump is someone who already likes to be known as someone who engages in a lot of sexual selectively. So I don't know how you could really blackmail him on something like this but the compromise doesn't actually refer to sexual blackmail refers to blackmail in general. It doesn't have to run leverage right so your premise here. which don't they already have enough other stuff? I would agree with that and I think that's what's been proven right. which is yes they did have compromised? They do have compromised on him. He was doing a deal with the Kremlin in the middle of two thousand sixteen election and he kept that secret from the American people. That is all all the compromise you would need there. Were so many parts of the dossier and your reporting that seemed to come tantalizingly analyzing Lee close to proving a crime. I think of all these condo deals in Florida where Russian oligarchs get paid four times the amount of the going rate like set records for sales and it looks like I don't know there's just a weird end around to get Donald trump line line of credit. I think of all the dealings at the New Yorker reported on a possible foreign corrupt practices act violations in say Baku which which reading between the lines. Maybe you were the ones who put that in remnants here. I don't know we were. We've been accused of it but it just I was thinking being hoping that the Muller would look at one or two of the strands and really nail it down and it seemed to me that he focused on the big strands brands. The trump tower meeting the huge strands. That weren't a hundred percent now down that certainly they seem to be smoke. He found more smoke folk. But I don't know that he ever found fire anywhere. Well then I thought he could've well so we obviously were disappointed by that to what we say in the book. Our interpretation attention to this and I was gonNA actually mentioned this when we were discussing the prog issue with Michael Cohen. There seems to be another investigation. Molar claimed there is a counter intelligence investigation. That is looking into some of these deeper issues. That weren't really part of Muller's mandate so we don't know what's going on with that investigation creation but presumably. That's where they are trying to figure out whether Russian money has compromised the president and sort of longer term Deeper Way and it may well be where they are addressing this whole prog issue. I mean the products. You is really weird giving all the attention it's gotten for for Muller to not really address it is just inches again. He didn't interview the President Right. So but the money thing obviously something that we spent a ton of time on and found deeply disturbing and as you say there was lots of indications of some sort of money laundering activity in his properties properties. Whether or not he was directly complicit in it so then the way that the steele dossier was taken and Buzzfeed over your strenuous objections your whole firms and steel strenuous objections. buzzfeed puts it online. And it's all out there the way it was taken was there. Were caveats. This isn't we're we're not swearing that it's true but it is just as you described the document that is credible and could provide leads but it was being vetted I think in the public as every time something and it was confirmed as reflecting on good work by fusion and we could trust this narrative and anytime something in it was non-confirmed or whereas with the case of say Michael Cohen's visit to Prague essentially disproved. It was taken as a real knock on the credibility of the overall exercise. Chris is but I'm hearing it shouldn't have been like I'm hearing that you're saying you don't stand by you never cleaned. Everything was true and even if the Michael Cohen stuff wasn't wasn't true which we could talk about but that shouldn't matter it's not like it's now ninety percent true that that's not how this document should be examined it. It was certainly misinterpreted widely when buzzfeed. I you know decided to put on the Internet and I think that whole fair you know remains regrettable in some ways in others it was probably salutary in that. It did bring a lot of these issues to light in a very urgent kind of immediate way for which we should all be thankful. The document itself has a great deal of credibility key allegations from the documents. Such as the fact that the Kremlin was in fact trying to intervene in our politics to like Donald Trump have proven to be true. And we're way out ahead of the US intelligence and so you know over time you can say that much. Should this document has borne out and remains credible. We are as confident and Chris. His professional abilities and the credibility was worked today as we ever were in fact more so has been good for business. It's been awash. We've continued rate for brand extension. I guess I mean if trump stake it can fail but still help the trump brand. What are you guys doing? Yeah I mean the thing that we don't really love is being depicted as some sort of appendage of the Democratic Party you know there's not really a bunch of democratic partisans at the company all the principles our former journalists and so we find that a little annoying and in fact you know up until until this we had a lot of republican oriented clients. We still have some but you know we have lost a few yeah. Are you gonNA take political democratic political. Oh business going forward it depends. I mean you know. We're a business so who will see what people bring in whether it looks like it'll be fun. I mean you know we run a business but we're also in for the fun so we'll do things that we think are interesting and worthwhile and certainly we think that the president should not be reelected and if someone were to come along and ask ask us to help in that effort we would very seriously consider that crime in progress. Yes it is inside the steele dossier and the fusion. GPS investigation of Donald Donald trump written by the co founders of that company. Peter Fritsch and Glenn Simpson. Glenn has joined me here today. Thank you so much Glen. Thanks bye in. This episode is brought to you by Casper. You know you spend a third of your life sleeping if you're lucky when you're getting the eight hours of sleep so you know what I say. I say you should be comfortable in fact if you're not you might not be getting the eight hours of sleep. So it's one of those statements that's dependent on the premise to execute the thesis. Yes I think. That's what I'm saying. Casper is asleep brand that makes expertly. We designed products to help you get your best rest one night at a time. Now when we say expertly designed we are talking about how cleverly they mimic human curves and on the mean way not in the curve shaming way but a complimentary mimicry. Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery. And I am I saying your mattress flatters your curves. No I'm saying it. 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Of course Mao going and gregarious and it's about toasting now. They're officially calling this the toast someone month campaign. Let's say you're not the kind of person who usually toasts sir. Offer his toast. Sam Adams offers to you the idea the inspiration to take a moment to recognize the people in your life. Let them know their appreciate. The holidays are coming around. Maybe there's some bad stuff going on at the table. But who doesn't like a nice thoughtful. Oh well phrased toast think about it. Put a little time to there are places online we get some inspiration. Won't get toast. I like to say to all my friends to all my loved ones. That's a simple one. Don't go with the champagne real pain thing little bit of a cliche what you should do. In fact go with the Sam Adams Variety Brilliant Beers and I shall be zipping and I do think toasting this holiday season. The Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsible. I know the Spiel New Jersey. Senator Corey Booker was on pod. Save America the other day may even today and he was asked to assess why California Senator Comma Harris dropped out of the presidential race graciously. Senator Booker didn't say well with me and the race. She knew she couldn't win you. ooh No he did not say that he did not say that he did say this. We are Democrats now have a system. Where clearly a black woman dropped out out of this race because she? She didn't have the resources she needed to continue. And I have to say. This analysis seems quite deficient. First of all yes. Kamla Harris is of African American ancestry and yes African Americans as a whole have much fewer resources and access to say money channels than White Americans. Americans I don't think a high. Maternal mortality rate among black women has much bearing on Kamla Harris specifically. I don't think a high incarceration rate great Barrington Comma Harris except for the fact that she was a fairly tough prosecutor. Put quite a few people in jail. But will interpret these two points as some fat doc towards that booker was using to illustrate accurately illustrate that in the United States. Yes African Americans face challenges in general that their challenges go beyond on the economic but also that they are economic. But if you want to examine let us also fully note. Some other facts that Kamla Harris's father was a Stanford Sanford economics professor. He's from Jamaica. But her mother was a cancer researcher. Shammala Gopalan was born in. What is now India? uh-huh it was under the British flag. She is ethnically south. Asian and Harris was raised pretty much solely by her mother. Some ants some family members. Her father was laws according to her sister. Not Very present in the girls lives. I'm not suggesting for a second. The Kamla Harris attended Howard University. And who identifies certainly is part of the black community very similar background in some ways to Barack Obama. I'm not suggesting that she's not part of the black community that you shouldn't apply the labeled bold the experiences African American on her or to her but what I am saying is that the explanation of her failed campaign as hinging on her status us as an African American and further extrapolating that because of that she had a hard time raising money. It seems really tenuous to me among factors that get in the way of that that narrative is that she is quite connected to the South Asian community and the medium. How as long as we're talking about the deficits of the black community at least economically comically? We should note that. The median household income among Asians is thirty nine percent higher than that of the media in American and Indian. Americans have an income of almost doble. The national median income also come La- Harris's husband is a well connected. Corporate lawyer He's white and comma was a prestigious fundraiser in California when she was a senator and as a bay area native she's tapped into a lot of silicon valley wealth and and this is really important before her campaign stopped connecting with voters. She showed a really profound fundraising propensity. Remind Senator Bernie Sanders. Sanders claims to have raised the most money so far eighteen point two million dollars in the first six weeks of his campaign followed by California senator. Kamala Harris twelve million million South Bend Mayor Pete. Buddha jr seven million and businessman Andrew Gang one point seven million. That was in the first quarter and Harris. Didn't really improve. On on that so I would suggest that her lack of connection with voters stymied her fundraising more than her lack of fundraising stymied connection with voters and it all goes back to the further point that there were a variety of factors way way down on the list if it even belongs at all all is the fact that Comma Harris is African American. But let us think about Cory Booker's diagnosis for a second. It's an African American candidate candidate without built in avenues to fundraising and access to family wealth. You know who that description does apply to. Yeah it's Michael Bloomberg notes on its Cory Booker. So I'm not calling cory booker disingenuous. I'm just saying that Cory Booker. In that assessment was being opportunistic he used a neutral question to highlight a talking point that he would like highlighted. He took it as an opportunity to talk about himself. Cory Booker is after all L. A.. Good politician just maybe not good enough or fortunate enough to raise all of the money of some of his more advantaged rivals. Uh and that's it for today show. Daniel schrader is just producer but you might remember him as the compiler cuyler of the infamous intelligence documents about former Canadian Prime Minister Brian. Mulroney the Tungsten Filofax Christina. Joseph just producer thanks for coming in I see the Presbyterian blue hose or an action against Furman and while I know you have no connection to the team the State of South Carolina you are Presbyterian. It's not really the point. I just like saying the blue. Hose the gist. Oh I see my old Alma Mater. The oceanside sailors are facing off against their tough East Nassau. County opponent the Farmingdale Dallars. 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