20 Episode results for "Brian Dugan"

The Chicago Abductor Brian Dugan

Serial Killers

34:56 min | 10 months ago

The Chicago Abductor Brian Dugan

"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder, rape and sexual violence that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. June second nineteen ninety-five was a warm day. INSOMNIAC Illinois located on the outskirts of Chicago. This small village was a quiet, peaceful farm town where most neighbors didn't bother locking their doors, tall oak trees swayed in the breeze as squirrels darted across the branches, gathering acorns beneath them. eight-year-old Opal Horton, road, her pink bicycle down a gravel road, Opel's friend and second grade classmate missy. Akron pedaled alongside her Opel giggled as missy. Missy, who was missing to her frontier Flash Chagrin? MRIs, birthday was in less than two weeks, and the pair made guesses about what kind of cake her mom would bake. As the girls debated, the dust from an approaching vehicle caught Opel's attention. She and missy stopped their bikes on the side of the road, and waited for it to pass, but instead of driving by the beat up. Blue car stopped right beside them. scruffy twenty eight year old Brian Dugan got out of the car and asked the girls for directions. His eyes were red, and he looked nervous. Opel got a bad feeling in the pit of her stomach. Brian inched closer pretending that he couldn't hear their answers. Suddenly he lunged forward and grabbed opal by the neck before she could react Brian Flung her into the front seat of his car and shut the door. Opel watched in terror, as Brian, ran after Missy, and grabbed her Opel tried to open the door, but the lock had been broken off. However, there are still was a way to escape as Brian Watt back to the car with MRI under his arm, Opel jumped out the window and ran. She hidden attractor tire across the street. When she peeked out Opel, saw the car speed away. She locked eyes with MRI the girls wooden. See each other ever again. Hi I'm Greg Olsen. This is serial killers apart cast original every episode we dive into the minds and madness of serial killers. Today we're discussing the story of Brian Dugan. A serial killer who abducted women and children from Chicago's rural western suburbs I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richardson Hi everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals. Originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream serial killers for free on spotify just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar. This is a one part episode featuring Brian Dugan A. self-described psychopath I will learn about dougans childhood and his chilling encounter with another infamous serial killer. Then we'll follow dougans increasingly violent crime spree. We've got more on Brian Dugan coming up. Brian James. Gan's first moment in this world was traumatic on September twenty, third nineteen, fifty-six, his mother. Jenny went into Labor. The delivery doctor was late and his baby Bryant emerged. The nurse was overcome with nerves. Just slow down the delivery. She and an intern pushed Brian's head back into his mother's womb. Then the nurse bound Jenny's legs together until the doctor arrived Brian suffered terrible headaches as a baby, which is parents suspected was a result of the traumatic. Traumatic birth, unfortunately, they lacked the money to diagnose the problem, and it went untreated left to his own devices. Baby Bryan took drastic measures to stop the pain from the time he could sit up. He would bang his head against the bars of his crib, desperate to soothe himself frequently. Brian did this until he vomited. The busy Dugan household did nothing to help Brian's migraines. He was the second of five children and struggled to find his place within. Within the family to deal with his unruly behaviour, his mother opted for strict discipline. Jenny's frustrations only grew when her son started wetting the bed. She punished Brian by making him sleep in the wet unwashed sheets. What Jenny didn't know was that the condition medically referred to as nocturnal, and your recess was not a disruptive or behavioral disorder. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode police note, Vanessa's not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. Psychiatrist, but she has done a lot of research for this show. Thanks Greg Pediatric neurologist Dr Max Maizels says that the actual cause of nocturnal and your recess is simply due to heavy sleeping, but if a young child is disciplined for it, the punishment has adverse effects punished. bed-wetting can develop early childhood depression, which significantly impairs a child's cognitive function. Without what doctors call positive practice, a child punished for conduct they cannot control will develop disruptive behavioral problems. As a young child Brian was already struggling, so jenny punished him by forcing him to sleep in his wet sheets. It further diminish Brian's emotional capacity and worsened his existing psychological issues, incapable of processing his emotions Brian preferred to spend his time alone. This self imposed isolation didn't help matters. He developed an unsettling attraction to fire. His mother attempted to break this fascination by forcing him to. To hold a lit match until it burnt his fingertips, but just like with Brian's nocturnal and Yuri recess. The punishment did little to deter him. When Brian was eight, his habit of playing with matches resulted in the garage, burning down, and his fascination with fire went far beyond playing with matches around the same time. The garage burned down Brian Poured Gasoline on the family, cat and Lit. Lit It on fire, according to his brother Stephen Brian laughed as he watched the family pet burn. It's unclear if Brian was punished for this behavior, but his parents definitely knew something wasn't right with him. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, seven, thinking a change might help the eleven year old. They moved to Lisle Illinois about twenty five miles outside of Chicago. They tried to get Brian. Brian Interested in what they considered normal activities like baseball, but Brian wouldn't be tamed so easily at some point after the move. Brian started experimenting with Drugs and Alcohol by fifteen he drank regularly and use drugs like marijuana and methamphetamines to support his growing habit. Brian broke into neighboring houses and businesses in January of Nineteen seventy-two. He was arrested for theft and placed under home supervision. Even after his arrest Brian continued breaking into homes, eventually, he was sent to the nearby, came county youth home. As far as we can tell, the punishment didn't deter Brian's bad behavior in backed. It only seemed to worsen it. One night after Brian was released from the group home. He cornered his brother Stephen in the bathroom, according to Stephen Brian, tried to sexually assault him, but he stopped before it went too far. Then Brian said to Stephen. If you were in prison, you are just another pound of meat. I couldn't help you. You'd have to make it or break it on your own. You'd have to submit to it or die. After this incident Stephen Suspected that his brother had been sexually assaulted while he was at Kane. County he was right, and it wasn't Brian's only experience being sexually assaulted soon after Bryan's released from the youth home, his mother told him to go to the store to buy hot dog buns. As he walked along the side of the road, a dark car pulled over a young man leaned out the window and ask Brian. If you wanted to make some money according to Brian, that man was notorious, serial killer John Wayne Casey, but at the time Brian had no idea who gase was, so he got into the car then gay. Him to a secluded spot at the edge of town, and pulled over next to some railroad tracks. He allegedly ordered Brian to put on a pair of Bikini briefs and perform oral sex on him. Afterwards Casey, watched Brian for a reaction, but the teen remained calm. Eventually gase drove him back to the Grocery Store and paid him twenty dollars. Brian pocketed the money and went inside to buy hot dog buns for his mom as if nothing happened. Clifford Line Decker who authored man who killed boys. The John Wayne Gay see story theorizes that because Brian remained calm, gase lost interest lying decker, said one of the things about Casey and a lot of people like him is fear turns them on. Following the incident, Brian trouble with the law continued when he was sixteen, he dropped out of school and committed a string of burglaries. He was arrested soon after and sent to another youth home. The pattern continued each time Brian was released. He committed another crime. He broke into fast food. Restaurants vandalized schools and use drugs, but throughout all his teenage wrongdoing, he never caused physical harm to another person however that changed when he was. In April of Nineteen, seventy, four Brian watched a ten year old girl named Barbara play by the road in that moment, Brian Belt something at his brain turn on like a switch. He approached Barbara and asked her for directions to the train station. Barbara Walters Brian a short way down the road to point him in the right direction. When he was sure they were alone. Brian shoved the girl into a patch of woods, but when her nose started bleeding, he let her go. The ten year old ran out of the woods to a crowd of people watching a nearby softball game within minutes, the police force Brian and arrested. But when they got to the police station, they discovered Brian was also facing burglary charges in another county. Because Brian was sentenced to spend time in a youth home for this infraction, the court didn't feel the need to pursue the incident with Barbara. Any further the charges were dropped. After a few months Brian was released, but like his previous incarcerations, the stint in the youth home did nothing to curb Brian's violent urges for the next couple of years Brian tried grabbing other women, but they always escaped throughout at all. Brian continued robbing houses once again he got caught in one, thousand, nine, seventy, nine, twenty, two year old Brian was sentenced to seven years in prison for a string of burglaries. He served three years before being paroled in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, two. If the Parole Board thought Brian had turned. Turned a new leaf, they were wrong only ten days after he was set free. Brian attempted to abduct a female gas station clerk on. Fortunately, he wasn't charged with the crime because his younger brother Stephen provided a false alibi to the police, instead of going back to jail, Brian, was free to roam the streets. That's how on February twenty fifth nineteen, eighty-three Brian for himself in the tiny farming community of Naperville Illinois. The town was virtually crime. Free neighbors knew each other and considered the area extremely safe until Brian Dugan arrived. High on marijuana, and out of cash Brian drove around looking for a property to burglarize around two PM. He stopped his car in front of a home that looked empty. Brian cautiously approached the house and peered through the living room window. It wasn't as empty as it seemed. A little girl sat on the couch, wearing a pink nightgown and eating a bowl of ice cream. Janina Carrico was break ten year old, who loved horses and was adored by friends and family that day. She was feeling sick, so she stayed home from school. Her parents were at work. Janin's presence was enough to keep Ryan from breaking into the House. He was still on parole and feared going back to jail, so he decided to leave and find a different place to rob, but as he walked back to the car that strange sensation inside his brain returned. The one he felt with Barbara Brian later said of that moment it was as if time stopped I clicked and turned into Mr. Hyde from Dr Jekyll he ran back to the front door and kicked it as hard as he could would splintered from the frame as the door flew open. Janine jumped up from the couch and frozen in shock. As Brian stepped over the threshold this time nothing could stop him. Next we follow how Brian's flirtation with violence turned deadly. High listeners if you're fascinated by the mysterious and manipulative side of true crime, Greg and I have another podcast series. That's just for you. It's called cults. That's right every Tuesday joint Vanessa Mae, as we step inside the minds of those who lead and followed the most controversial radical and sometimes deadly organizations in history we'll go beyond the headlines and discover the foundation behind notorious colts like Jim Jones and peoples temple the rudge. Rudge, Niche Movement Heaven's Gate and more. Each episode of cults is full of illuminating details of their improbable origins and sinister intentions, but not all colts are from decades past. Be sure to catch the special four part series on Nexium a Modern Day pyramid scheme turned sex trafficking cult doomsday predictions, religious beliefs, extraterrestrial orders find out what really happens inside a cult subscribed to colts, free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Now back to the story. On February twenty, fifth, nineteen, three, twenty six year old Brian Dugan drove aimlessly along the back roads of Illinois looking for a house to burglarize. After spotting ten year old Janina Carrico home alone, he kicked open the door and burst into the living room, Brian wrapped up in a bed sheet and carried her to the front door as they left the House Janine. Janine reached out desperately trying to hold onto something. Brian Yanked her away, and she left fingernail scratches in the wall, Brian Through Janine into his car and drove west into a secluded area there he walked her down. A nature trail called the Illinois prairie path. When he was sure they were alone. Brian Raped Janine then beat her to death with a tire iron. Brian said in a later interview I was driven by some of impulse that kept growing I could not stop. After killing her Brian Rule Janin's body off the trail and covered her with branches then he walked back to his car and drove away. Around the same time Janine sister returned home from school. The first thing she noticed was the front door hanging open frightened. She ran to a neighbor's house for help with the neighbors searched the house and saw Janin's fingernail marks on the wall, and they called the police investigators searched the area, but they couldn't find any evidence. Leading Janin's whereabouts Janin's body was discovered two days later by a pair of hikers her. Her family was devastated and the entire town of neighbor. Ville was shaken the F. B.. I. Launched an investigation into the murder and offered a reward for any information leading to an arrest. Two months later, an anonymous tip was called in based on the information provided dupage county officials arrested two innocent men. Rolando Cruz and Alessandro does after a rush trial. A jury found both men guilty and sentenced them to death. As Cruz and Hernandez were wrongfully forced to answer for Brian Dugan's crimes, he hunted for more victims during this time. It's suspected that he was responsible. For at least two more attacks on women, unfortunately, while Brian Fit, the description of the attacker in these cases investigators didn't have enough evidence to arrest him. Emboldened by the lack of consequences in the early hours of July fifteenth, nineteen, eighty-four Brian Struck again while cruising around in his beat up Chevy Impala. Brian spotted a young woman. Woman in a car at a stop light he was low on money and wanted to buy some drugs, so he decided to rob her. The woman twenty-seven-year-old Donna Schnorr was a floor nurse at Mercy Center Hospital. In Aurora. She was also a member of the Trinity Lutheran Church and well liked by everyone Donna's brother, Roger recalled. She made everyone feel comfortable around her. She was the type of person you would love to be around. which is probably why Donna who was driving home? Home from a party wasn't alone that night. Her friend and Co worker James was following her in his own car to make sure she made it home safely, but Brian wasn't deterred. When the light turned green Brian followed both of them down the road after a few minutes James reached an intersection near his home and turned off Brian pulled his impala right behind. Donna's car. They were alone Brian accelerated, and side swiped on his car off the road. She slid to a stop. Stop on a grassy knoll and Brian pulled US impala up against Herbert bumper when Donna Potter reverse, she couldn't back up. She was trapped as Brian approached on his car. He could see her through the back windshield. Struggling to the passenger door, he reached in through the window and grabbed her. He pulled done out and dragged her back to his car. He shoved her into the back seat and tied up. Brian then returned to Donna's car and wiped it clean of his fingerprints. He wanted to take down to a lake resort in Wisconsin, but the sun was about to come up. Brian was afraid. People would see her in the car so instead. Brian drove her down a small road that led to a flooded gravel pit called CV Corey Bryant Park the car and Maidana walk into a small mosquito infested patch of woods there he beat and raped her multiple times afterwards he took Donna down to the quarry, and held her head underwater until she stopped breathing, then he pulled down his body back on shore and sat next to it in a days for around twenty minutes. When a census returned, he calmly walked back to his car and drove away. As Brian pulled away from the quarry. Another car appeared on the road inside were three teenage boys out for a quiet morning of fishing as Brian passed them. He turned his headlights on bright so they couldn't see his face. When the boys parked their car and walked down to the Corey, they found donnas lifeless body. Later that morning, Donna's parents worried when she didn't show up for church. When they drove home, they were surprised to find a sheriff's deputy standing at their driveway while the deputy told the, Schnorr is that their daughter was dead Brian. Was Twenty five miles away in the small town of Plainfield Illinois there he abandoned his impala in a deserted area and headed home. He later reported the car stolen. After murdering Donna Brian continued on with his life he met a girl, got a job as a stock handler and moved into his own place, a fifty dollar a week boarding room, it seemed that his need to kill was temporarily satisfied, but after murdering two people Brian new, the urge would return. The only question was when. Criminology professor, Dr Scott Bond says these cooling off periods serve as an emotional pause for serial killers, in which they often returned to their daily routines, Dr Bond Likens it to a drug addict. Coming down off a high during this time, serial killers recompose themselves, but no matter what they do, eventually the urge to kill returns, and when that urge becomes overwhelming serial killers always strike again less than ten months after he abducted raped and murdered Donna Schnorr Ryan's urges completely overpowered him in May of nineteen, eighty five. He got back in his car and went looking for his next victim. On May Sixth Nineteen eighty-five as Brian drove around the suburbs surrounding Chicago, he noticed a broken down car and pulled over looking under the hood was twenty one year old. Sharon Grech Brian offered to help Sharon and worked on the engine until it started as Sharon drove away Brian smiled and waved. Before Sheri- car disappeared from view. Brian got into his vehicle and followed her. When Sharon parked in front of her house. Brian jumped out in held a knife attack terror. He blindfolded sharing and forced her back into her car, and then drove to a small suburb called Batavia. Somewhere along route thirty one. Brian parked the car. He pushed Sharon into the back seat and raped her. According to Brian Sharon stayed calm after the attack, which made him believe she wasn't a threat, so he let her go. It was an eerie echo of Brian's teenage encounter and escape from John Wayne. Gay See years earlier and just my AC. Brian yearned for something more. So just three weeks later on May, twenty eight Brian was back on route thirty, one in town called Geneva Brian spotted a nineteen year old woman walking on the side of the road. We don't know her name so will refer to her. As scarlet Brian, pulled over and grabbed her as Brian, trying to force scarlet into his car. She fought back Brian stumbled, and she made her escape. The failed duck didn't deter Brian. He was going to satisfy his urges. Somehow he had no idea scarlet managed to write. Write down his license plate number, but for the moment Brian was free to continue his attacks the next day Brian saw sixteen year old girl in a parking lot. He pulled his AMC Gremlin over grabbed a tire iron and stepped out of his car. Bryant threatened the team with a tire iron and forced her into his car. As Brian drove across the county line, his glove compartment fell open. His hunting knife was in clearview Brian. Relish the look of fear on the girl's face. It made him feel powerful. When Brian reached will county. He pulled over to the side of the road. Then he put a belt around the girl's Neck and raped her afterwards he drove the girl home and set her free, but the rapes weren't enough to satisfy Bryan. His urge to kill remained unsated a couple of days later, he skipped work opting instead to drive around to getting high eventually, his meandering drive brought him to. To the small town of Psalm Anoc, he turned down a gravel road, and saw two little girls riding bikes. As he drove past them, he was overwhelmed by his murderous urge Brian pulled over a disabled the interior locks by pulling off the KNOBS. Then he turned his car around and drove back to where he saw the girls riding their bikes. His mind was made up. He needed to kill. Next Brian Dugan's atrocities rise to a new level now back to the story. In Nineteen, eighty, five twenty eight year old Brian Dugan. Three women raping two of them, but his reign of terror wasn't over on the morning of June second Brian skipped work and drove around in car, getting high by chance. He drove past two young girls riding their bicycles when Brian saw seven-year-old Melissa. And her old friend, Opal Horton. The urge to kill took over. Later in an interview with the FBI, Brian tried to explain what he called the switch that let what felt like a different person. Take over his body Brian simply said he lives in me like Dr Jekyll, unleashing, Mr Hyde after leading the evil inside him. Takeover Brian returned or Melissa and Opal were riding their bikes. He pulled over and approached the girls pretending to ask them for directions when he was close enough, he grabbed opal and tossed her into his AMC Gremlin Brian, then Yanked Melissa off her bike, and dragged her towards the vehicle, but by the time he got there. Opel had managed to crawl out of an open window. She was already running across the street. Brian decided there was no time to chase her. The street was deserted, but that could change at any moment he had to make his escape Brian Force, Melissa into his car, slammed the door and sped off, he blew through a stop sign, narrowly missing another vehicle and turned onto the highway to keep Melissa Com. He covered her head with a sleeping bag and asked her questions about school when he got Melissa to talk. She told him that she liked gymnastics. He kept her talking as he drove seventeen miles to the small community of Mendota. He pulled. Pulled off the main road and stopped near a small creek that ran through a patch of trees. Then he told Melissa to get out of the car and follow him once. They were out of you from the road. Brian Raped Melissa then drowned her in the stream when he was done, he hid her body under a pile of rocks, satisfied Brian Walked back to his car and drove away. He took the small road back to the highway turned east as he gained. Speed Brian, checked his rear view. Mirror Amendola. A police car was following him. Brian pulled into a service station. Hoping the police car would keep going to his dismay. It followed him into the parking. Lot as Brian walked into the stations convenience store. The patrol car pulled up right behind his Gremlin. Brian was nervous, but he couldn't stay inside forever. Wanting to appear nonchalant, he bought a soda and went back to his car. He asked the waiting police officer of everything was all right. The COP pointed out that his vehicles tag had expired for a moment. Brian was relieved, but when the officer asked for his license, he hesitated. Brian didn't have a valid driver's license. Instead he showed the officer his fishing license as Brian Waded, he heard a call come through on the police radio, but dispatcher announced that a little girl had been abducted from Psalm. Anoc Melissa Ackerman. The officer glanced inside Brian's car, but didn't see anything suspicious. He took down Brian's name. Then left to join the search for Melissa. He had no idea that he had just led the little girls murderer go! The close calls spooked. He drove home and took a shower to wash off the mud from the stream. It had been a particularly dirty murder though he seemed to fear being caught, Brian displayed no signs of remorse over what he had done to any of his victims. Later he self diagnosed as a psychopath with would explain his lack of emotion in a study out of the university, of Wisconsin, Madison researchers linked psychopathy with an imperative ability to receive and process negative stimuli though he was never formally diagnosed. It's possible. Brian was affected in this way by his own admission, he felt nothing for his victims, but his lack of emotion wouldn't protect him from the women he had hurt. That evening as Brian cleaned up eight year, old old, Horton gave investigators a description of Brian's car. The police were told to search for a beat up blue compact after hearing the description, the officer who pulled Brian over remembered the blue. AMC Gremlin police in Kane. County were told to Pick Brian up for questioning. They were intrigued to learn that Brian was already wanted. Scarlet had come forward to report Brian's attempt to. To abduct her, and she had his license plate number the next morning, when Brian arrived for work, the police were waiting as soon as he stepped on his car. They took him into custody Brian was brought to Kane County jail and booked for the attack on scarlet, then police called in twenty one year. Old Sharon Grech who Brian had raped after helping our starter car Sharon picked Bryan out in a lineup. Around this time, the sixteen year, old Brian raped after the failed attack on scarlet arrived at the police station. She was initially too afraid to report the rape, fearing that her attacker would come back to find her. Recognized brine after seeing his face on the news knowing he was behind bars. Safe enough to come forward despite the evidence stacking up against him Brian, proclaimed his innocence and refused to cooperate with investigators, but the police didn't need his help. As they assembled their case, the police made an intriguing discovery. The Impala Brian had reported stolen after he murdered Donna. Schnorr a year earlier was sitting in their impound lot. They parked the car right outside Brian Cell Window. Window to send a message the next day he asked to make a plea deal in exchange for information about the rapes and Donna's murder, but as Brian worked out a deal, Melissa Ackerman's body was discovered, a lab confirmed that dirt from the area matched dirt inside Brian's boarding house room now there was no need for a plea bargain. The police had brian dead to rights. Confronted with the death penalty, Brian confessed to the murders of Melissa. Ackerman and Donna Schnorr in return. A judge ordered Brian to serve to life terms. However, Brian wasn't tried for the nineteen eighty three murder of ten year old Janina Carrico. He confessed to the little girl's murder, but when prosecutors from dupage county were called in, they dismissed his confession. The do page. Investigators insisted that relondo crews and La Monroe Hernandez arrested. Two years prior were responsible for Janin's murder. The two men remained on death. Death row for the next ten years until nineteen ninety-five when they both won their appeals and were released finally. Janin's real killer could face justice. It took a while, but in two thousand nine Brian Dugan was finally found guilty for the murder of Giannini Carrico and sentenced to death, but that sentence was commuted to life in prison. When Illinois Abolish the death penalty in two thousand eleven. When asked what would happen the ever got out of prison? Brian admitted that he was still dangerous. He said. I'm a threat to other people. Luckily he'll never have a chance to hurt anyone again. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers, we'll be back soon with a new episode. You can find more episodes of serial killers, and all other podcast originals free on spotify, not only spotify already have all of your favorite music now spotify is making it easy for you. Enjoy all of your favorite podcast. Originals like serial killers for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killers on spotify just open the APP and tight serial killers. The search bar will see you next time of a killer we. Serial killers was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios. Original executive producers include Max, Ron Cutler sound design by Nick Johnson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Carly Madden. This episode of serial killers was written by him. Boland with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson. Hi It's Vanessa and Greg again. Don't forget to check out our podcast. Original series cults every Tuesday we explore the background in psychology behind the most manipulative mysterious and murderous groups in history the branch. Davidians the Peoples Temple Heaven's gate. You may know the names, but just how well do you know? The colts subscribe to colts free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Barbara Walters Brian Brian Dugan Brian Rule Janin Brian Watt Brian Dugan A. Brian James Brian Sharon Brian Brian Fit Brian Struck Brian Belt Brian Cell Window Brian new Brian Walked Brian Waded Brian Force murder Opel spotify Bryan
Target USA -- Episode 174: There are more than 10,000 spies lurking in DC

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Target USA -- Episode 174: There are more than 10,000 spies lurking in DC

"From podcast. One coming up in this episode of target USA. There are more than ten thousand spies in Washington on precedent, the threat from our foreign adversaries, specifically, China on the economic espionage on the espionage front. Who are they? What are they after Brian Dugan? Assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence, at the B is Washington field office joins us on this episode the put the problem into context explain who's behind it, and where the FBI is going to Solman coming up on this edition of target USA. He NASA security podcast from WTO in Washington DC, this is target. USA. Russia could render huge arm to this North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States. Dangerous terrorists. DC is repeatedly mentioned someplace they would like to see an attack criminal successful America as a target on its back and on this program, we investigate the threats the people behind them, the agencies fighting them and the impact on you. This is target USA, the national security podcast. I'm Jay, Jay green US intelligence officials believe there are thousands of spies lurking in Washington. Some say as many or more than ten thousand and many of them are operating in plain sight in what we call the city of secrets. Every day in the predawn hours, the quiet rumble of transit begins deep beneath a sitting in the streets on its waterways. And in the skies hour by hour, it growth, as this city of seven hundred thousand swells to more than a million waves of civil servants military, law enforcement, office business, people students, and diplomats and tourist saturate Pacific among them spy, and a lot of them on president in the threat from our foreign adversaries, specifically, China on the economic espionage on the espionage fun. Brian Dugan assistant special agent in charge of intelligence at the Washington field office of the FBI is a lot of activity in the DC area and or current climate, there's a lot of people interested in finding out what the US government is up to. That's not the only reason there is also one of the biggest workforce turnovers in the history of this. Nation. There's a large population right now in retirement organ, closer retirement, the baby boomer's that were unused government are all leaving and that population is also looking for post government jobs, and according to Philip Mudd, former deputy director of the FBI's national security division. They know things people with high end security clearances at the State Department to see Idei department of defense, contractors in Washington, they number, according to mud in the tens of thousands. And if you do the numbers in that numbers game, I just think of the insider threat here in, you gotta know that at any one time, someone had to give it up for money or some other reason, and gotta hope that the counterintelligence guys figure it out and according to do gun. They pretty much have, and they're taking action, working with our federal partners to make the weren't out there for those that are getting ready to retire that we provided surreally training you. We provided really good access for you. But this is not for sale and for those who reject miss or ignore the message, of course, there's always going to be moments that we're going to have people. Decide to cooperate with the enemy, and we're gonna find him. We're gonna catch him. And now we get down to the conversation with Brian Dugan on Washington spy problem. And what the FBI is doing about it. Why is Washington such an important target? Well, I mean Washington is one the seat of government. We have all of our. Foreign partners. All here at the embassies. We also have a large number of retired government employees that retiring, the government here. We also have headquarters of our partner federal agencies centered around the capital district, as well as a lot of contracting companies and their subcontractors, they're also headquartered, the DC area all working on classified projects that are all von abilities for the US government. So would you just give us a brief overview about the Conroy intelligence counterintelligence division here at the Washington field office, and what your mission is in your objectives are okay? So our counter-intelligence division is one of the larger ones in the FBI, we concentrate on monitoring our foreign adversaries to make sure that the playing field is level between. Are. US policy and. Objectives and also ensure that are. Companies and u s. Economy is playing a level of field in regard to economic espionage, as well as to ensure that those that are working in the classified environment are secure that classified information is not being provided to the four Navasero or foreign counterparts that don't have need to know. And. It's a full time business. There's a lot of activity in the DC area and or current climate, there's a lot of. People interested in finding out what the US government is up to what technologies are companies are universities are form or excuse me. Our federal partners are working on that gives you the edge the leadership in the world. And our job is to keep an eye on that to make sure that nothing nothing escapes. The confines of our interests to things. I'd like to follow up on the first one being you said it's important to keep a level playing field when it comes to foreign intelligence organizations. I guess how do you do that? Well, the intelligence game is something that obviously all countries are involved in. And we're basically the defense where the defensive agency here to make sure that the intelligence games by our adversaries. We keep them in check. We catch them in their craft. We catch them and trying to recruit people United States. And also, if they're trying to crew people outside the United States that are willing or possibly able to provide an advantage to our foreign adversary, and so that, that's a fulltime job. We've had some recent successes in that game, could you give us a sense of some of those successes, so more recently? Kevin Mallory was finally fully adjudicated was featured on sixty minutes. It's an example of the large population of retired US government employees that have had either pass clearances current clearance. In retirement, or even just US government employees that have information that our foreign adversaries, we'd like to have mister Mallory decided that five years after retirement, he needed to make extra money. He made it services available to the Chinese. We caught them. He was convicted of espionage, and ultimately sentenced. The Kevin Mallory situation. How long did it take to work that out to, to get to the bottom of that it was actually relatively short ks usually espionage cases, take years, but net specific ace took months where between the time of recognizing something was going fail to catching him in the act, catching his conversations on his phone with his handler, we're actually done in months, and made it hard in the case to prove the transmission of classified material. Ultimately, we're successful in showing that he was cooperating with the Chinese. Do you think that was unusual? The fact that that was such a short case based on what you were saying about cases, always each case, you know, unique each case is unique. But certainly the Mallory case was unique in itself, that things were so fast moving with technology and the speed of the recruitment and the people are willing to talk to our foreign adversary handlers. We're, we're having to speed things up gone are the days of meeting handlers once in a while where we have Mallory talking on regular basis with his hand or electrically and what he thought was going to be hidden conversations. We're able to catch that and move on that quicker. You said that there is a lot of activity here in this area. How do you gauge that? How do you tell what gives you that impression? Well, one thing that has not just Peter interest, but brought brought to our tension, a lot more in the. Last. Ten years, or so is, as as America's been talking about, there's a large population right now in retirement or getting close to retirement, and the baby boomers are, you know, that were in government are all leaving and those that population is also looking for post government jobs, and they've been provided, good training. They've been provided good access to information. So they have a lot of information, even if they don't have copies of stuff, they had from work like Mr. Mallory. They still have stuff up in their heads. That is something that the Chinese the Russians or others may be interested in having even if it's innocuous, as just how the US government operates or how the government views another country is something that the intelligence services that are coming against United States would be interested in having and so all those people, and we're getting the word out and we're working. With our federal partners to make the wariness us out there for those that are getting ready to retire that we provided some really good training, you we provided really good access for you? But this is not for sale, and that's some of the lessons hopefully were coming out with, with the Mallory resolution. And now we've got Jerry Lee, another, former intelligence community member that has pled guilty his crimes working with the Chinese. That's pretty remarkable. What you mentioned that the adversaries are looking at the demographics, here, the population age thing and figuring and working that out saying, hey, there is dismissing people, or that many people that are going to be fifty seven or whatever the air the ages, and are going to be looking for work, and maybe we can sweeten the pot for them. That's pretty remarkable that they're thinking that way, I think, you know, social media's made it easier for them to find. You can look on any Lincoln is one example, but any social media employment. Search. Facilitating mechanism social media people put out there, if not what they did in a prior life. What skills they have and to any good intelligence service, those are going to be clues to find people that used to have a government job or access to clearance at one time or another. And so that just makes it more out there, obviously, that's something that if an American is retired and they're trying to find a job that correlates to what they've been working on head hunters out there. Maybe legitimate looking for people with those backgrounds, but our adversaries also using that as a means to look for recruit potential people to talk to them. Could you characterize? And I know you've talked a little bit about the actively, you just got done talking about them, the kind of activity was we're seeing here, but could you characterize the threat? Now, severe moderate mild, comparatively speaking to two recent years. Well, I think in the six minutes interviews. I think you couldn't say any better than this in general d'humieres. And then Mr. Avenida where they basically both said that it's unprecedented on precedent, the threat from our foreign adversaries, specifically, China on the economic espionage, on the espionage front, that there's such a desire for our foreign adversaries to gain access to classified information to US government tensions, and I think the large populations not something that's being calculated by our foreign intelligence service. Adversaries, but I think it's just a. Volmer ability that we in the US government have that we're aware of and just their luck that it's becoming available. Couple of well, you you're former assistant director here, told me some months ago in another national security official just this week, confirmed it to me that. China is been really active obviously. And they into they suggested that the US may have some work to do to catch up to them to, to, to, to get ahead of the threat. So how would you characterize? What needs to be done or what is being done to deal with that significant threat that you just outlined from the Chinese, certainly, as Mr. d'humieres laid out in some of his testimony in the last year. We're getting working groups together that will go cross government agencies to make sure that one the outreach to not only or federal partners about the internal risk and the retire retiree risk, but also to our corporate partners to educate on the risk that the enemy is looking for any and all to collect information about the US government, the US intelligence, community, and US government are seen a US company secrets and advantage are in indeed technology interact democ sectors. So we are in full, we're in full. Press with outreach to get -education out there and the audience's open to listening about this more and more these days because they see the the transfer of. Technology transfer of information in companies are seeing their bottom line slip, because it used to be we wanted to have openings into the market and the Chinese government controls our own economy, whereas the United States is the Connie's on its own the government's on its own. And there's a separation for good reason, but we don't have spies as Mr. Mersa stealing secrets from other foreign companies to give to Google Google has to do their own thing. But in China, the communist party is going to support their own companies. And so this is not just a FBI versus the Chinese government. This is a whole of government, the whole United States to work together to protect our own bottom line our own interests and our own secrets can spy slip through in here. In Washington, because you guys cover this place like a blanket and you. But you're very busy. I mean, there's a lot going on. Can they slip through, of course? There's always going to be moments that we're gonna have people decide to cooperate with the enemy, and we're gonna find him. We're gonna catch him like I said, it's just not the FBI. It's not just the US government keeping naive out in the watchtower. It is everybody involved that we get our contract defense contractors on lookout. We have their subcontractors that work with them on the lookout, we have active engagement with multiple fronts, in the private sector academic sectors. So it's not just one agency or just one government. That's doing this. We were all doing it in partnership to make sure that we don't let things go by. You know, it's really interesting getting back to Washington. You know, it's a city of seven hundred thousand people, I think, in recently. I think it was a spy museum had an advertisement that said that their ten thousand spies here, which means that there's one in every seventy people could be by which, you know, that's it is what it is. But for the average Joe or Susie. What does this by look like? Spy, you know. Is nine descript. Spies is going to be someone that's gonna be a student school of visiting professor your neighbor someone that could be a colleague someone that shares a soccer field with you. There's. Ample evidence that our foreign adversaries is coming at us in person and over the internet, and we all have to be watchful. I can't put a number on how many Speiser amongst us right now but we're always vigilant and the good thing is that even our local partners, working with local state tribal, police day understand the counterintelligence missions. Well, and so we're all looking out for, who's the next by the question. About what they do how they do what they do is very interesting. How how's the trade craft changed? I know you've spoken a little bit about linked Dan and social media and stuff, you know, remote stuff. But, you know, people on the ground one thing that some years ago, that was pointed out, is that, you know, the nonconventional way of going after this, some, some nation states doing that now instead of, you know, government, people, they're getting as you mentioned, different people from different disciplines to come here to do things like business people and students, so how's the tradecraft changed? Well, I mean, the trade crap is still building relationships, no matter who it is. It's based off of building trust, and getting people to talk and share. And so it's not just a person in the sunglasses and dark hat, and the trenchcoat. So our adversaries becoming better at coopting people in all walks of life, for either reasons of threat or financial gain. There are people here in United States that are looking to find out what the United States is doing what we're about, and they're going to collect that and provide that back to their handlers. And so there's a benefit in the United States that were open. And so that's always going to have a ability for us. But that's why the FBI are federal partners and all the people that we have great relationships with will be watching for to make sure that, while we have an open society that we also keep an eye on, on keep an eye out for those people that have nefarious purposes here, how long have you been involved in counterintelligence? I've been involved Kanter tells about half of my career both here on here in the west coast. So it's my understanding that FBI agents usually have a previous career before coming into the FBI was at the case with you and intelligence career just a previous job, you know, before coming to the FBI. So FBI agents have to have work experience before they can sign up. You don't you can't come into the FBI strata college. So we have police officers, we have lawyers. We have marines like myself. We have people that had been FBI employs either as analysts or else in the FBI in the trial for agent. And they had that work experience would wherever they came from. But the, the FBI is getting younger, and we have younger and younger age and starting to work counterintelligence, but they're learning fast, and they're going fast and really proud of our organization able to train up and develop these young investigators to do things that older generations used to do, and they're doing a great job. So the reason I asked you that question I wanted to know if there is anything that strikes you or moment in your career when it comes to, to counterintelligence, that you kind of sit back and think that was great. We did great work. Is there a case, that's more memorable to you than any other or any that strikes you as something that you just remember? I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of victories. There's a lot of ongoing victories. That I don't know if I even talk about right now. I mean, that's the neat thing about counterintelligence is there's things that go on with us, and our government partners that we are. We are stopping the counterintelligence threat and not all the time. Does it show up in court? And I'm really proud of what our folks are doing as Mr. Demers said in his testimony were partnering up with other federal agencies like treasury where we're using financial means to stop the enemy from doing technology because we're not going to be able to arrest them. We're not gonna build stop them from getting technology. So then we, we hit him in the pocket book. So what happened? I asked you about that. You think is important. The one thing that I think when I was thinking about talking today is, is the not just outreach to the private sector Boura work with our federal partners to better train them and bitter, open up the bridge for communication to dentist by those insider threats. Earlier immoral often it's not for any one of our agencies and even be is included. It's not a black Mark that you have some of that's doing bad things in your in your agency, or your department. It's more important to dente fi them and out them and get them out of the access. They have currently, and I think some of the work that our headquarters insider threat and espionage, people been doing have been preparing our federal partners for the event of there's going to be a bad apple. But this. Is how you're going to densify. This is how you can refer to us. We can jointly. Look at them, and make sure we don't let any more secrets go and stop the. The league from continuing. And how would you how would you characterize the reception you're getting from these places, and people in organizations that you're going to try to try to teach them up about this very receptive? I think our partners. So in each federal agency, we have equal personnel that are working insider threat for each of the federal agencies, specially intelligence community that we can reach to, and they understand that their mission is to look for the insider threat, and that they can contact us anytime. I think that is a mutually beneficial for everybody, and it is well received. And it's, it's not a black Mark on the agency to dentist them, and we get to them and get to them quickly. And we take care of the issues fast as we can the city of Washington itself. It's a. Very unique city. It is very diverse there, lots of different neighborhoods, lots of different places where people who engaged in an involved in international. Espionage can hide, you know you have diplomats who live all over the place, not just in the city. So how do you how do you view that? How do you manage the pastas possibilities or is that something you simply? Rely on your partnerships for to deal with that kind of thing. I mean that's the vantage about living United States. Is that there is that free movement free to live wherever we want and a lot of ways that's our advantage to the ABC? When we talked to the adversary, they see the lifestyle living conditions. So as much as that makes our job harder in some ways, it also is to her vantage, and so that there is different communities, different ethnicities different cultures throughout the city in the greater DC area, including Maryland into Virginia, that also is our advantage and so and a lot of ways that helps us and yes, it makes our job. We have to open up the optic to keep an eye on out there. But we have really good people organization. Good people that can speak multiple languages understand different cultures and work with all these different entities and communities throughout the greater DC air. Area to help look for various actors and then broom to our attention the nature of recruitment, sometimes may scape people, but you, you have some thoughts about how people should view some of those developments. Well, as, as I mentioned, parv outreach, and training to. People outside the FBI to our federal partners to the private sectors that. The collectors foreign four intelligence service. We'll try to be friends, you, they're going to try to lure you into a relationship. But they're gonna start asking odd questions and those questions at the beginning will seem innocuous, maybe even flattering, but they're going to get to the point where they're going to try to get the information that they're looking for. And, you know the. The social engineering, the social work that good handler is going to do is to. Ingratiate themselves to their person. They're trying to recruit, and we're trying to make people aware. For those that are unwitting or not aware of the process that. That overeager eagerness to socialize with you may not be just because you're swell person and maybe because of the information that, you know, or have access to and to be wary of that social interaction, but also those questions that may be coming shortly after. That's a great opportunity to talk to you today. It's been a pleasure to listen and learn and I thank you for taking time to do this. Thank you for your time. That was Brian Dugan assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence at the Washington field office of the FBI. His interview was for a series of reports that we called fity of secrets, and you can read all about it online at W, T O, P dot com. That's whiskey. Tango Oscar Papa dot com. And you can also listen to the individual radio reports right there at WTO p when you go, there just searched national security, and coming up in our next episode a woman that I describe, as tough smart and funny, her name, Elizabeth, Horst fees, the shar, Jay defamed is at the US embassy in Talan Estonia, and she's got a great story to tell as the show Jay, I am in charge of the running of the embassy. See, I spent a good part of the day, working on the policy that we were on with the Estonians and our primary goals here are security, economic development and people to people relationships. And she's had plenty of experiences in people to people relationships. And some of the toughest postings in the world including Pakistan, Afghanistan and Moscow, so don't miss it. With that. Thank you, as always, for joining us, if you have any questions or comments send me an Email at J green at W, T, O, P dot com. That's again with ski Tango Oscar Papa dot com. WTO P, and you can follow us on Twitter at t-, USA podcast. That's at Tango, uniform, Sierra alpha podcast at t- USA podcast and check out our new national security newsletter called inside the skiff at WTO p dot com slash alerts. I'm Jay Jay green, and this target USA the national security lied cast. Hey, everybody, you have to check out this amazing new true crime podcast. It's called twenty two hours and American nightmare. It's about a murder took place in Washington, a family and their housekeeper were held hostage for nineteen hours before being killed when the murderer set their mansion on fire, and you'll be shocked. By what they went through during those nineteen hours and you won't believe how they found the guy won't ruin the ending. But all I will say is pizza crust podcast. One teamed up with my fellow award winning journalist WTO p Megan clarity, and Jack Moore to put this story together. 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Ep. 161: Hailie Deegan

NASCAR on NBC

22:29 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 161: Hailie Deegan

"Hey, guys, I'm Darren, I'm John and we're the host of oxygen, true crime podcast, martinis and murder. If you look discussing and listening to true crimes, while your host get boozy, you've come to the right place for new episodes that leave you shaken and stirred subscribe to Martinez and murder. Now. Welcome to the NASCAR in DC podcast. I'm your host Nate Ryan today here at the NBC sports, Charlotte studios where I am joined by the first woman to win a Canaan poll Andy first woman to win a Canaan race at his Haley. Degan. Thanks for joining us Haley. Thanks for having me speaking two days after your big moment occurred in Idaho. And actually I talked to you last night on NASCAR America when you called in Carolyn Manno and I and on. I were both just struck by like this infectious enthusiasm had you're on the phone. I think you're on a layover in Denver, but yet you still like really, really pumped up. I was still an tell me about how it's been since you're win. I'm still cloud nine. Yeah, exactly. I'm like still all amped up, like I feel like I just got out of the car still on the. It's like winning that race is like the best feeling I've had in my life. It's is amazing winning at winning fixes all problems. Winnings Akhir for everything. And I think that that race is definitely the highlight of my career historic win for you. Did you feel like it was a long time coming? How man? I haven't won a race in like a year and a half and says all the soccer stuff is new to me. I'm still learning, so I'm not gonna probably go out there and women I raise it takes work. It takes time, takes experience and experience is one thing I lack, and I feel like the past couple months. I've been really just hitting it hard being at the track every single day, whether it's go karting, whether it's driving might offer a truck. Anything I can really be an I'm driving and you see it starting to pay off. You've been recent since you were eight years. Eight. Okay. And did you know you always wanted to go the stockcar route? I know you did some offroad racing before. How did you gravitate toward NASCAR? Yeah. So I started out an offroad racing last eight years old. I begged my dad when I was seven. He made the transition from free stumbled across to offer racing. These kids are using these carts our eight. You're like, sixteen. Years old and house like dad come on, you gotta give me one dad, please in, and I begged invade them for months and from eighth birthday he ended up getting me one. So that was the start of my career. It was ever since. Then I fell in love with they. I started winning back when I was thinking. I wanted my first race when I was like twelve or one of my first race. When I was eight, I did I won. It was at like, Paris appears dirt circle track and they made like a track on the inside. It was in the lucasville series and back like home, anti thousand nine. I ended up winning move one time. Moved up. Some classes moved up another class. We ended up winning a championship in the junior class in lucasville series. One championship in the Manca costs only ever go to win championships in that series. And now we move up to the pro-life clash which is the class that my dad when you transitioned from freestyle talk road, the classiest started, Brian Dugan obviously came from as you said freestyle motocross. Did you ever have any desires to go bikes. I, I liked riding their bikes. I mean, like I know hotter rider by my McKay. I mean, like I can ride her fight, but I never took the whole like, let's go and his seventy five foot ramp type route. I was always just like an higher dirt bike. And once I kind of found that like the whole car thing, like took the fear out of it a little bit just a little. I mean, it definitely still like it's, it's not easy. It is like at moments, it can be scary when you catch on fire and stuff. The dirt bike stuff. That's so scary stuff. They take it takes guts, and I think that's something when I found car racing, something that I could be good at something that didn't necessarily come with a ton of broken bones and learning from stakes. I was like this. I can do this because your dad's profession came with many broken. Just like both legs both femurs like ankles wrists, like I think his fingers permanently bent and like he like walks with one foot towed out. But you know, it comes with it to discourage you from going into his line of work for that at all, or he never really like pushed me to do anything like I was always like the ones like that. Dad can. I do this that I was that kid? I was like, dad, please finally went dad, please tendon eve, his races, island, terracing event ever since I was little, I went every single x. games, like there's pictures of me back when I was like three years old wearing this giant for pink jacket out x. games and the call l. a. Coliseum like stuff back like way, way back. Just like I've always gone dollars events like the, we pitchers me like being like three years old on dirt bike with him in staging x. games and just tons of tons of things. I grew up around it. It's all I know what I love to do, and that was what got you into racing. You were so immersed in it when you were child. I thought like this is something I want to be. It's like being raised as like your dad races Cup, we'll. What do you think you're gonna? Do we've seen that? Yeah, like I was pretty familiar. You have any memories of him being involved in serious accidents? Only like almost dying fight. I was bleeding. That was probably like this top is we'll get pedia pray page like has three lives. But he, oh my God. There is times there was two times where he almost died one at winter x games where he tried to three sixty on ice and ended up ditching his by mid air landed and ended up like breaking both his legs. His like are everything like he wrote around like two casts, like after that, and he like would ride a dirt bike with like to cast. I'm like, do like watching this and I've tasing him like running after him in just the videos we have from back then. And the other time was he was filming. There's a show back in the day called Viva LA, bam as a pretty big show. And they ended up going out in like country town area where they could like blows themselves up and do some crazy stuff. And my dad. He ended up jumping this ramp news, super, Wendy outlets like the biggest thing, Ryan dirt bikes when it's Wendy like that. When it gets sketchy and he ended up jumping this ramp doing a bat flip, not making it all the way, and he ended up hitting his Kenny blew up his kidney. And like literally his stomach started filling with blood and like Elma God. He like at that moment like he told all the guys. He's like, I am dying right now. Like I'm gonna die. If you guys in the close hospital is like an hour or so away, so took forever to get an ambulance there. And they ended up like cutting open, like here's a scar from down here all the way down his stomach, and they split them open in like, took out all his organs and like sodium back together and put them all back in. Despite all about you thought racing. Racing. Okay. You mentioned that you get your first one. You were eight years old as I. I as you. So I ended up just back like we racing trophy carts back into look, sell series, and it was like, oh, man. I look at now my little brother racism. I love roller Hudson. He's eight right now. It's just crazy looking back at it because he's so into motorcross. He loves motocross and now seem kind of take that truck route because my dad doesn't wanna see him get hurt and stuff. And Hayden, my middle brother who's twelve. He's like, the fastest can the nation right now on a dirt bike. He's insane. I could ever do a bath about ten years old and just the stuff he does. He has this kind of like sync in him. The sense of rhythm in like he can go in his seventy five foot ramp, just no problem throws like a whip off of it perfectly fine. He's crazy talented as a little kid and my dad stick him out and his little high chair like in front of the ramp and just stick them there for hours. He'd just sit there eating food hours and just watch my dad hit the ramps. And I remember that being like the highlight of his childhood. So you're telling me this is hereditary? Yeah, I family is proof that racing. I could say it is. So you mentioned it's not a fun being on fire now. Have you had scary crashes like that in crashes? I've kept on fire. I don't even know. Like I think six times really. I'll say like six times. Yeah, just I'm straight Motors blowing up type thing. I've never, I don't. I've. I've never crashing caught on fire just straight like motor blows up next to me. Feet catch on fire typing. But man, I think I caught on fire five times in one month. That was a lot of Motors. We went through expensive month was that off road offering stock cars, knock on wood. Nothing's happening on the side. Okay, good. How do you feel like things are progressing at this point? Haley because I know you've had success this year in Kane n, but I'm sure you're looking down the road. Do you have a career plan or path? Yeah, I think that right now in the whole Canaan series, it started out really good. Like we started my initial goals this looking at it was, okay, let's go out. Let's run top ten. I race, then we'll go top five after that. And then now we're looking at, it's like we're going for wins. We're going for as good as we can't. We want to be the best driver out there and it's just crazy seeing the change just in a couple of months, like the season started in like April, and I'm like, that was like a couple months ago and just the development that especially towed has put me through their whole TR development program. They've made me kind of develop into this purse like almost a totally different person from beginning to end to the season and one that goes from, let's go get top tens and top five. So let's go out and win this race changing as a person outside the car as well. You seem very. Well-spoken or learning how to play the media game. I know you've been run ragged since you're win here, and I. View media. It's been kind of mice. Almost specialty. I guess I'm big into like the whole media, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube. We have tons of different channels that we go through, and I think that the media thing I grew up around at Agra fell. My dad in the media. I grew up always being in kind of like the background of it just watching inside. I watched him growing up this, his whole life doing interviews, TV shows everything I was always there. So it's just it's kind of like Hayden with dirt bikes. He watched my dad growing up day day in day, and I think that that's one thing that's kind of from watching my dad. I've learned you've also premature entire focus on your recent career. Interesting. Did you graduate from high school? Sixteen. And that was back in may back in. Yeah, so and that was against the number two years. Early cinema. No, no. Has that helped you and that you've been able to focus just solely on this story about school? It's seriously like it was hard. It was definitely like something whereas like I had to buckle down and was like up till three in the morning, almost every single night doing schoolwork because I didn't take summer off. I didn't take no breaks off every plane flight. I was reading a book doing something doing some more command like anything that I could do in my spare time. I was doing my work to get it done. So I could have this time in my Canaan season where I was like end of the season while I'm going hard core. I wanna be sure I can go one hundred ten percent into this so graduating when you're sixteen, I presume you leave some friends behind any lamenting or thinking back on while everybody else is going to have a little bit of a more normal life than me or is it just kind of like what you signed up for that I was home schooled. All my friends at the race, Jack. I mean, we may not be friends on weakened, maybe friends and other, but they're all three tracks. You're meant to be then. Yeah. I know nothing else you said after your win that people don't understand how many days and hours I've put into this and that's why it meant so much. How many days and hours would you say you put in your recent Kerr? It's every single day this last year ever since I really graduated, I've buckled down hardcore. It's an every single day thing. I go the gym floor morning for two hours. I go to the track every single day, and if I'm not at the track, I'm doing stuff like this is my whole life revolves around racing. I trained for racing. I practiced for racing. Everything I do in the media is four racing, so I can be better on the track and every opportunity that I get. I wanna make sure it helps me with my racing career because that's what I want to. I want to go out there. I don't want to be good in the media and knock it on the track. I'm going to be good on the track so it makes me look good in the media. I don't want to have to worry about myself. Oh my gosh. Like I just I need to finish like this. So the whole media thing doesn't go crazy. I didn't do good again or something like that. I want to go out there. And be like, people are like, okay, she won like now the media comes. Let's worry about what's going on on the track. So a couple of hours in the gym. You said, how many hours are you practicing in a car? Every day during the it really. Okay. So like I it's expensive against soccer's every day alone have a team that can go out there every single day practice and have a track around you because those tracks are like, it just depends where you go and come out to North Carolina. I'll be moving here in a couple of months. Hopefully depending on how are season goes for next year. But we're looking at moving out here at least part time, and that will give me the opportunity kind of being a car more and even more than every single day. But back in my home, I go out and I go to the go kart track and I'll do, oh, make circles at the talk. I'll practice bump and runs to my driving coach. I'll go out there for like think before, Idaho. I was there for like six or seven hours out the go kart track, just practicing bump and runs with my driving coach, and you see, that's when it came down to end the race. I felt comfortable enough to do that. I want to get to that bump and run the state. I know that was a little bit controversial little so two hours in the gym, what six or seven hours a day, go carts or a test or whatever you're doing. So you're putting ten to twelve hours a day into making this, your career, your life. And that's virtually detailed breaks t- take Sunday on. I want I like doing it. I like going to the gym and feeling myself, get better, feeling better, going to the track and being like I put everything into this. I didn't waste an hour of my life for something else because all of its into this racing and when I win, that's when it pays off. Would you feel like you learn the most when you talk about the experiences, a big part of it, but are there? Are you learning techniques? Are you learning how to drive certain tracks or how to apply throttle or break? What are the things I guess that you learn just from repetition? Yeah. I think that one thing a big thing that I had to change my mentality was all these other drivers at the in a season. We're getting in my head telling me like all you have to say dire. Dire. Say, ties its biggest thing to say tires, and I kind of like saved too much like wasn't my aggressive self that I was at offroad racing and after I'd say it was coming into that Oregon race when as I say about cinema, ish midseason, I flipped the switch house like we're going on here. We're being is Greg as possible because I. Need to get the results. And as soon as I flipped that switch, that's when the results are coming says that you have a calm mellow personality on the track your or super aggressive, which I presume is what you're talking about. How do you explain those differences when you put the helmet on your different person than when I'm sitting here talking right now, it's funny because like I am and I am not. It's key. When I get talking about racing, I get like aggressive, very like, yeah, and that's how I am racing's it's it's all I know. But when like I'm not talking about racing, I'm always like super laid back like whatever. Okay, I'm care. And then like, okay, when we win the next race, like elders, racist, we can dad Quaco their shack, like dad, look, he's got Karl. Let's go race here and just that type thing and racing, it's what I grew up doing. I've been doing it ever since I was a and is all I know it's what I trained to do. So it's just ingrained put on the fire suit and put on the helmet, get in the car mentally, flip the switch to racer mode. That's cool. You've gotten a lot of support. I know from some big. Drivers. Cow Bush has tweeted his support a few times. Is there any chance he may drive for Kyle Busch in the future? I know he's, I'd hope so. I mean at this career keeps going like we wanted to if my career, if we keep getting the results that we are in the Canaan series, hopefully we will get to that eventually. I don't know when, but hopefully. Who else have you heard from? I know that Kevin Harvick spoke very highly if you after you rent county race a few months ago as well, anybody else? Yeah, there's been quite a few drivers. I've just like texted my dad and stuff and saying stuff see felt in the tweeting something about me too, which is really cool because it's funny because I knew Steve kind of before he came president of NASCAR type thing in RAs call because want my manager slash like it's my dad's manager that we kind of us. He was friends with Steve, like back in the day. So like I know Steve pretty well, and it's, it's just funny to see you so that you don't wanna. See yourself is different. What about Haley? Those who might see you as the female driver versus the normal drive? I understand that nobody wants to be perceived as anything, but just, hey, I'm a race car driver my gender, but I would presume that some of the attention and some of the sponsorship is tied into that. Making people who want to look at from that perspective. Is it good with you? If people look at you from that perspective, as long as overall, they're still looking at you as the race car driver? I, yeah, I know him a girl. Yeah. I know it's not normal and it's not not the typical person at the racetrack I go there on the only girl there alone. Like the youngest one went down on the track. It's we're all drivers there. What my car is white, red and blue. It ain't no hot pink car with pedaza was on it. It's I'm out there to be racer. I'm out there. My car looks like everyone else's. And in the end is going to try to everyone else is doing. Let's talk about your win. So tell me about this bumping run the practice so much know. Why did you know it was going to come down to that guy like the night before I was lying in bed, like getting like stressed out, just thinking about it. Like my heart started racing. I was like talking to my mom and dad, and I was like, what? If it comes down to the last lap in? I'm in second like and I have to do something like, what am I going to do? What if it's this person with that person? And like it just so happened that come down to the last lap. Like I had to make the move on my teammate. It, but in the end we were both going for our first wins and you gotta do what you gotta do to win team made is coal rouse? Yes. How would you characterize your relationship because I know he wasn't too angry about it, but you also that, hey, we're, we're friends teammates and we got past, I think. So. Now. I mean, Kohl's he's a cool guy. He's nice. And we've been friends from since being teammates this year and he's done great this year. I'm trying to get better and better each race to and he's looking out for his first one. I'm looking out for my. I was looking for my I went and I think that if it came down to the last lap like that, if it's places where swapped, he probably would done the same thing and it's for the win. You'll do anything for a win. Just not is if anyone saw the robo racist we can. You know anyone will do anything for win. And I think that I, he was heated after two. I heard interviews definitely heated, but I think that after the race, you know, volleying passing, I loved him and I was like, dude, I'm sorry. Like I'm really sorry. But like that was for the win. Like I hand sorry to. I'm like, I can't blame you them the same thing as like, yeah, I know stand. He's like, I, I was mad but got past it. So this is the first time you've had to take somebody else out. Take him out. We, we put him behind this first time you've had to do that. I bump somebody out. I've never taken somebody. I don't think I'd taken somebody out this year. I don't. I don't think so. Although someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong, but. I think that was kind of the first time I've actually had to put like a heavy move on someone for a critical position. Good. Yeah. I don't regret it obviously not. So you tweeted Haley to Cole. I'm sure you'll get back at me at some point and he has responsible. So, so I've got to ask you about that. I, I just want to ask you, you really think he's gonna come back at teammates your buds right. They know friends on the race. We're friends until three laps to go. That's how it works. You see, in the Cup series, everyone will take their team at out on teammate out for a win, and you might help them buck draft in their mid race. But when it comes down to the end, it's every man for himself or girl. So let's touch briefly on his response, which was that he invited you to be his day to the I ask our words, I guess, is, is that something you're taking him up on. About that? I don't know. I know. He's, he's, we're friends. He I know I'm hoping maybe he's just joking around told me about the rest of the season. What's ahead for you here going forward? We've had a couple of batteries is before Vegas. We were in like this funk of like to, we keep getting taken out like God, this like sucks. And I think that after that Vegas race, we definitely got out of that, but that hurt us in the championship pretty bad. So coming from the beginning of season, this was my development year and Twitter made that pretty clear. We're here to develop. And I think that from the beginning season we were goaling on being topped through, you're looking for a championship. We were looking for top ten's top five, just keep working getting better. And I think that say, say, if we ran Canaan next year, then we'd be going for a championship, but this year this is my development. Can you win rookie of the year book? Oh, we're in the rookie of the year. Thanks so much for joining me. I really appreciate you being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. The NASCAR NBC podcast is available on apple podcasts, Stitcher, Google, play Spotify. Please leave a rating or review if you like what you hearing. And as always you can send me feedback on Twitter at eight, Ryan is my handle. Thanks again for listening to the NASCAR on NBC August.

Haley NASCAR Twitter Idaho soccer Steve kind NASCAR Nate Ryan Hayden NBC murder Vegas offroad lucasville Denver Charlotte Brian Dugan Martinez motocross
Biden inches closer to the presidency but needs to win another battleground

5 Things

12:09 min | 5 months ago

Biden inches closer to the presidency but needs to win another battleground

"Hiring is challenging especially with everything else. You have to consider today but there's one place where hiring is simple fast and smart. That place is ziprecruiter. Try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter. Dot com slash. Five things that's ziprecruiter dot com slash. The number five t h i n g s ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire good morning. I'm taylor wilson and this is five things you need to know. Thursday the fifth of november. Twenty twenty ever some of the top headlines. There's still no winner in the presidential election but we might be getting closer. Stay tuned for all the latest from nevada to georgia the. Us has set a new daunting covid. Nineteen record and denmark wants to kill fifteen million minks on farms to minimize the risk of retransmitting corona virus to people air reminder. You can check us out on twitter where we're on twenty four seven at usa today. Podcast on five stories and also join the conversation with fellow listeners. Plus if you let us know your thoughts your tweet could be featured right here on the pod. That's at usa today. Podcast on twitter now. One of the show. We still don't know the winner of the twenty twenty presidential election budge. Oh biden is just six electoral votes away from two. Seventy after being named the winner in wisconsin and michigan on wednesday and the race now comes down to pennsylvania. Georgia nevada and north carolina would give bite in the presidency at this point unless arizona flips the ap called the state for biden early and continues to defend it despite a shrinking lead for him. There man calls from the trump campaign to retract. Arizona has eleven electoral votes. So assuming biden has won arizona even a win in nevada with its six electoral votes would be enough. State officials plan to update results around mid morning pacific. Time early afternoon eastern time brian dugan executive editor of the reno gazette journal part of the usa. Today has more from nevada. You're probably wondering what the heck is going on in the state of nevada this morning well let me help you understand the situation in short our six electoral votes. Maybe the factor that puts joe biden in the oval office next january. The reason why nevada hasn't called a winner yet is because the state's largest counties clark wash oh are still counting mail in ballots. Vadasz had until election date is to submit their mail in ballots chose to vote this year. That's because our state legislature earlier. This summer gave all active registered voters in the state the option to submit their ballots. V via mail this year so the counts have until next week to count them until the final results were canvas on november sixteenth. So right now. The associated press estimates about seventy five percent of the vote in this state has been counted. Joe biden leads. Donald trump by about eight thousand votes. That's pretty close. Clark county which is home to seventy percent. Plus of all the voters in the state is still counting an unknown number of those mail in ballots. They've already counted three hundred thousand plus votes but in two thousand sixteen. A total of seven hundred. Sixty six thousand plus votes were counted so they have a ways to go and a similar process happening here in washington county. The home of reno and sparks. And we don't know which way this county is going to go both counties to become increasingly diverse over the last few decades especially among the population the remainder of the rural counties in nevada Which are a small fraction of the vote. Compared to washington. Clark are largely conservative in white. So what's going to happen still possible that you know. Many uncounted rural mail in ballots could come in and give trump a significant boost based on previous history. We're looking to see if ballots clark. County dramatically boost biden's lead. And if not and if it's still razor thin it can all come down to. Whether wash counties non-partisan voters the state's fastest growing voting bloc by the way break for biden or break for trump so we'll know more wants to counties and states begin releasing results mid morning on the west coast what we're anticipating is potentially very very tight race and we'll be here watching it. You can stay up with all latest by checking out. Brian on twitter at brian dugan in georgia an estimated ninety six percent of votes are in the peach state has become an unexpectedly close battleground president. Donald trump leads by some twenty three thousand votes but earlier wednesday. He led by more than one hundred thousand and there are still more votes on the way in deep blue counties in the atlanta area and on the coast in pennsylvania as mail in ballots continued to be counted trump. Leads by around one hundred fifty thousand votes but more than ten percent of the votes still has not been counted and the president's lead continues to shrink as mail in ballots. There have gone largely for biden in north carolina trump leads by less than one hundred thousand votes with about ninety. Four percent of the vote in the president is still probably expected to win there. But it's not over and full results are not expected until next week thursday could be the day we know who will lead the country for the next four years stay with usa today dot com throughout the day to keep an eye on our map and by the minute updates on stories from around the country. Republicans will in all likelihood keep control of the senate but a number of races are far from being decided. Democrats need at least two. More wins to flip the senate and three if president donald trump is elected. That's after democrats made a net gain of one seat on election day but a number of close races might not be cold for days and runoff elections could push the fate of the senate back several months. There were thirty five senate seats in the election but only fourteen were thought to be in play. Twelve of them were seen as seats. Democrats could have turned but those predictions did not quite pan out with democrats losing key races across the country. Still one senate race is headed to a january runoff in georgia while the other is too close to call and there are still close races in north carolina and alaska democrats won two seats held by the gop in colorado and arizona but lost the seat in alabama. They were also unable to flip seats in iowa. Maine montana south carolina and kentucky. Meanwhile democrats will keep control of the house of representatives but republicans may cut into their majority after some big wins. Republicans flipped back. some key. state stems one in two thousand eighteen midterms in florida new mexico oklahoma south carolina iowa and minnesota republicans also defended many of the seats in texas. That were seen as vulnerable to lose. Democrats did win two previously republican seats. That were re districted under court order and a third seat in the atlanta suburbs. One demographic of voters around the us that's had a major impact in elections this week latinos and they're different voting patterns have made one thing clear. Us latinos are a diverse group of voters. That don't vote as a monolith and have increasingly important role in election outcomes. Cuban americans in miami helped president donald trump win the crucial battleground state of florida and mexican americans along the border with texas. Help trump hold onto win there. But latinos in arizona helped that state flipped blue for the first time in two decades many cuban and venezuelan americans in south florida have a history of fleeing oppressive socialist regimes while mexican americans and americans with roots in central america or more attuned to the immigrant. Experience of fleeing poor countries in search of economic improvement latinos are also increasingly playing a major role in us elections based on early voting. More than fourteen point. Six million latinos were expected to vote in the presidential election. That's up from twelve point. Six million for years ago according to estimates from the national association of latino elected and appointed officials educational fund a huge part of that is a three hundred thirteen percent increase among young voters aged. Eighteen to twenty nine protests. Breaking out around the country. As some trump supporters have arrived at ballot-counting locations including a group in detroit urging to stop the count on wednesday trump supporters in phoenix. Different ideas gathering to demand election workers. Keep counting other. Protesters are more generally insisting on counting every. Vote like these people in las vegas. Some protests turned violent and the national guard was deployed in portland while police and protesters clashed in new york city and minneapolis on thursday. More protests are expected around the country. While much of the country's focus is glued to the election the coronavirus pandemic is not going anywhere a full surge that health experts warned about is very much here that. Us hit one hundred thousand cases for the first time in a single day on wednesday a new record and a country. that's already confirmed. More cases than anywhere in the world still amazingly the virus wasn't at the top of every voter's mind this week only one in six cited it as the most important issue to their vote. Meanwhile england begins a four week national lockdown on thursday as a way to try and cut cases down and take the load off hospitals especially ahead of the holiday season around the world more than one million two hundred twenty. Seven thousand people have died from covid nineteen. Thanks for listening to five things you can subscribe for free and also if you get a chance. Go ahead and rate us and review on apple. Podcasts you can also find us wherever you get your audio. Thanks always declare thornton for her work on the show. Five things is part of the usa. Today podcast network. This election season was a busy one. It was our country's chance to choose candidates for not only president than vp but also hundreds in congress. That's a lot of jobs to fill especially after months of watching debates and researching their experience. What if you had the do all that work every time you needed to hire for your business thankfully there's ziprecruiter to do the work for you and now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash five things i. When you post jobs on ziprecruiter it gets sent out to. Over one hundred job sites then ziprecruiter's matching technology finds people with the right experience for your job and invites them to apply in fact four out of five employers. Who post on ziprecruiter. Get a quality candidate within the first day. Right now you can try ziprecruiter for free at ziprecruiter dot com slash five things that ziprecruiter dot com slash the number five t h i n g s. You may be stressed out about the election. But you won't be stressed out about hiring when you try ziprecruiter for free at barracuda dot com slash five things.

nevada biden brian dugan Donald trump usa today taylor wilson arizona senate reno gazette journal joe biden clark wash Vadasz twitter seventy percent georgia north carolina usa ninety six percent Four percent pennsylvania
 Target USA Ep. 223 | US/China confrontation looming

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

25:14 min | 1 year ago

Target USA Ep. 223 | US/China confrontation looming

"From podcast one coming up in this episode of target USA China's handling of Cova Nineteen. Are these actions? Were are unfortunate and dangerous because it puts both our countries on a collision path. Then there's the existing problem unprecedent threat from our foreign adversary specifically China on the economic espionage. Espionage Front bears the five G. problem in what that means for national scrutiny is if they can control data Meeting if your data's flowing through their network at some point they'll be able to control that data what should the US do about the tense relationship with China right now given all at stake coming up on this edition of Target USA the National Security podcast from WTO in Washington DC? This is target USA. Russia could render huge arm to this country's North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States dangerous terraced. Dc is repeatedly mentioned someplace they would like to see an attack cybercriminals success America as a target on. Its back and on this program. We investigate the threats. The people behind them the agencies fighting them and the impact on you. This is target. Usa The national security podcast. I'm Jay Jay Green the. Us and China are on a collision course. It's been taking shape for decades. But the corona virus has brought us all to a head a lot sooner than most people imagined. Here's the pre existing problem that underlies everything closer everyday in the predawn hours. The quiet rumble of transit begins deep beneath a sitting in the streets on its waterways and in the skies hour by hour fit grows as this city of seven hundred thousand swells to more than a million waves of civil servants military law enforcement office businesspeople students and diplomats and tourist saturate the city among them spies and a lot of them on precedent in the threat from our foreign adversary civically. China on the economic espionage. Espionage Front Brian Dugan Assistant Special Agent in charge of counterintelligence at the Washington Field Office of the FBI is a lot of activity in the DC area and Eric current climate. There's a lot of people interested in finding out what the US government is up to. That's not the only reason there is also one of the biggest workforce turnovers in the history of this nation. There's a large population right now. In retirement or getting close to retirement the baby boomer's that were unused government are all leaving and that population is also looking for post government jobs. And according to Philip Mudd former deputy director of the FBI National Security Division. They know things people with high end security clearances at the State Department the CIA FBI the Department of Defense Contractors in Washington. They number according to mud in the tens of thousands. And if you do the numbers in that numbers game I just think the insider threat here in you gotTa know that at any one time somebody to give it up for money or some of the reason and hope that the counterintelligence guys figure it out and according to Dugan they pretty much have and they're taking action working with our federal partners to make us out there for those. That are getting ready to retire that we provided training camp. We provided really good access for you but this is not for sale and for those who reject miss or ignore the message. Of course there's always going to be moments that we're going to have people decide to cooperate with the enemy and we're in finding we're gonNA catch him now. The problem at hand has multiple parts. There's the five G. Problem and the most pressing problem the code one thousand nine outbreak the US end many international governments have found themselves between a rock and a hard place and China's pushing on both of them. Mike Rogers former House intelligence committee chairman now had a five G. Action now. A nonprofit is sounding the alarm about China's five jeep push China along the way according to FBI indictments was using bribery Economic Extortion Intellectual. Property theft to try to gain an advantage in the marketplace so that they could compete over companies who were following the law following the rules not stealing other people's intellectual property so we watched all of that happened they grown exponentially in the marketplace in a very short period of time and they've beaten long standing companies in the space and they did it candidly because they were cheating to get there. And here's the most troubling part for Rogers. The Chinese Communist Party has used wildly in other countries To help spots and Authoritarian rulers spy on its own citizens It's violated sanctions meaning when when Iran was under sanctions for its nuclear program They went in and and violated those sanctions and provided them the ability to set up these networks. Rogers says they have a long track record of unethical and the legal behavior. And here's the thing you should remember most of all about this And what that means for national scrutiny is they can control data Meaning if your data's flowing through their network point they'll be able to control that data and use it to own National Security Purposes. Which would be at the cereal so our and Rogers says if you have any doubt about what China might do if it controlled. Us data networks have to do he says is take a look at what happened during the Cova nineteen and so if you give an adversary the ability to access that data Two things worry intelligence officials one they could use it for stealing intellectual property then more importantly if you get into conflict imagining just flipping the switch and turning it all off and by gas. You'RE NOT GONNA turn it back on very easily. It's not like rebooting. And so those are these challenges in the supply chain. We're seeing that strain today with the pandemic certainly on respirators masks personal protection equipment of all sorts. And what that means if we are so reliant on a country like China. Badgen if they can say. Guess what we're turning off the network for the state of California the State of New York the State of Florida Until we get what we want and or were just kind of cause disruption in both your economy and security that ended up plan. Democ highlights our our dependence on The Chinese Communist Party and what they produce. This should tell people initiatives a great wakeup call for folks to say. Maybe we shouldn't be that reliant. We need to understand why it's important to have our own secure by genetic you heard what Rogers said. China basically turned its back on the US when the US needed during this Cova nineteen pandemic but beyond that China's been taunting the US over our troubles with corona vires. No one needs to be reminded that it all started in China. China has a political and moral obligation to be totally transparent with the United States and other countries as it relates to the issue of the covert nineteen pandemic. Joseph DeTrani is the former director of the US National Counterproliferation Center and an expert on China. It's clear that in December of two thousand nine hundred Chinese doctors in Wuhan who talking about a SARS similar disease permeating the population. One doctor in particular Dr Lee. When Leong was muzzled the authorities and told not to disseminate room is this. Dr Tragically died from the covert nineteen disease in early February of two thousand twenty in talking with Detroit. We discussed what seemed like an effort on China's part to hide something not only the China muzzle. These doctors who are concerned about the SARS similar disease and December two thousand nineteen but China did not invite or did not respond to requests from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States. They request to visit Wuhan to speak to their medical personnel in regards to this disease which quickly became pandemic affecting all countries indeed certainly affecting the United States in talking with Ambassador DeTrani. It was made very clear. I understood this from the very beginning. China's not obligated to do anything to let us researchers or scientists doctors into see what happened with the corona virus. But it would have gone a long way towards helping figure this out if they had to this date. Cdc has not been invited to China nor has other any US. Government AGENCY BEEN INVITED TO VISIT. Wuhan to discuss the covert virus. Now this virus could have emanate from either the market which is what China says took place or could have been the Wuhan Institute of Technology. These issues could be resolved by being transparent on issues like this. And that's why I visit of CD. Having these medical experts interact with Chinese. Counterparts is so very important and the twenty said China's lashing out and taunting the. Us is confusing. And Sad permitting spokesman at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to claim that this virus was brought to Han by the United States. This is was the Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesman. Making these claims spokesman also referred his listeners to various tweet messages indicating that the origin of this virus was in the United States. These actions were and are unfortunate and dangerous because it puts both countries on a collision path in regards to this pandemic and the possibility of other issues affecting the bilateral relationship which currently is very tense. And if you remember at the top of the program I mentioned that the US and China were on a collision course. Now we look a little closer at that collision course Nikolas. Efthymiadis is a retired. Us intelligence officer. And he's a China expert as well and he has some thoughts about that course of collision so nick. How do you look at the the relationship between the US and China from an intelligence point view? They knew something really bad was going on for a while. They did not want this to be their dirty laundry to get out into the world did but they didn't tell anybody but anybody about it for a good while. What what what happened. Well there are a lot of problems with us. And or the way China's behaved and the way the way they behave which was specifically to protect the Chinese Communist Party was To Control Information And they literally told. Hospitals was a quota on the number of of Corona viruses that they could report so at the end of the day. Even the Chinese government doesn't know how many corona viruses cases cases there were because they specifically did not allow hospitals to accept them into report them. So you know from an intelligence perspective. It's an impossible problem to contend with. Because even your target doesn't know you know I only has an estimate of how many deaths there were The fact that it matters that they're you know the CPT preeminence control of the party comes before for everything including the life and health of their population and their actions proven them. What do we do with this? There are a lot of people that are saying. The world needs to punish China for this. They're talking Abou Suing. They're talking about Financial supply chain actions. They're talking about of course. Security Actions What's your best guess on? What is the best thing to do? I believe the best thing to do is to calmly intelligently sit back and restructured the relationship between the United States and its allied or. Let's say the Western world which lives by rule of law to restructured relationship with China. I think China's actions threatening to cut off medical supplies to the United States Blaming the United States are for starting this virus in China I think their actions prove exactly their intent towards the United States in the free world so with this evidence in hand it is incumbent upon our government our Congress and the administration to as we pass Corona virus issue to restructure the relationship the United States has and will have with China and that means from a security perspective from economically. We need to help the companies that we have already in China that are doing business in China. We need to support them So that they can do business on a fair and echo were equitable basis. We need to protect our security interests and we need to do this in a coordinated fashion with allies. It has to be the world doing this. So is this discussion about what to do about adjusting. The relationship with China goes and had a very interesting conversation with Tom. Vilsek the former. Us Agriculture Secretary and had some interesting things to say about our relationship with China. Moving forward the question that I and others are having right now. Not just about food about pharmaceuticals but about p. p. e. in in in in about other medical supplies coming from China does the US needs to review its relationship with China especially as far as as far as food goes. I should say that that is a very complicated question And in part because there are a number of millions of jobs that are connected to trade with China in food. We sell a significant amount of of food products and commodities to China more than we purchased from them. I mean it's we have a trade surplus and have had a trade surplus with him in agriculture and food products for as long as I've been in public life We sell billions of dollars of product. If if we were inside that we were going to shut them off and they were going to shut us off. We would be the ultimate loser in that. The farmers would no longer have markets for a substantial of what they growing raise and many of the people that are involved in processing and transporting shipping. Those items to China would also lose their job. So I think you have to be careful about about that I think you know the key. Year is not necessarily to restrict trade. The key is to make sure that the trade is being done on a fair and reasonable basis and I think The administration Attempted to do that With their recent Issues with China. But I don't think they necessarily succeeded at this point They got the phase one trade deal which is really important but I think what they really wanted was to fundamentally change the way China does business in China with reference to American businesses in that that goal has not yet been accomplished. That's for another round of negotiations and just to be clear about this. I do get the intricacies of us. Trade with China The The threat by the Chinese government to withhold pharmaceuticals from the US in certain elements from the. Us was what prompted this question to. Some of the folks that I speak to about these matters And that's the part of the reason. I asked that question if the relationship needs to be reviewed and when I hear you saying is yes. It does but very carefully correct but very carefully. I mean I Because there are certain aspects of the trade relationship where where the Chinese have a definite advantage and I think that's there needs to be a balance and I think we have to also take a look at what is fundamental to our overall security You know the idea that that many of our our defense systems. Our reliance and have been in the past reliant on on Chinese technology that obviously is something that people should be concerned about They are a competitor. There's no question and we are engaged in a fairly serious competition between in the US in terms of Where we stand in terms of global leadership and whether or not our system of democracy in a world of constant changes more efficient better and more effective than their more authoritative system. And I think they're trying to make the case with this virus somehow. They've done a better job of managing the situation. We have at least that's the message that they're trying to break trout throughout the world And so there there's clearly the relationship with China is a very difficult and tricky one that has many aspects to it But on the food side on the agriculture side. They clearly need us more than we need them. There may be other aspects of the relationship where we need them more than us and the question is is it properly balanced do. We have Sufficient alternatives. If in fact our relationship gets strained and we need pharmaceuticals. Is there some other market where we could go? That's I think you always have to have that in mind. So as we wind down this discussion I want to remind you that on March Eleventh National Security Adviser Robert. O'brien spoke to the Heritage Foundation and he gave some very interesting remarks about China and what the US new. And what China new and what the. Us didn't know and essentially where we were at that time. And here's what he had to say. Well the the first thing I'd WanNA point out is that This virus did not originate. United States originated in Wuhan Bay Province in China It originated sometime ago Unfortunately rather than using best practices This outbreak in in will on was covered up There's there's lots of open source reporting from China from Chinese nationals That the doctors involved or either silenced or or put in Isolation or that sort of thing so the word of this virus could not get out. It probably cost the world community two months to respond and those two months If we'd had those been able to sequence virus and had the cooperation necessary from the Chinese Had A A. Who Team I've been on the ground had a CDC team which would offer on the ground I think we could have dramatically curtail. What happened both in China? And what's now happening across the world so You know that that's how it started The president took very bold action When when we realize the extent of what was happening and we stopped Air travel coming in from China. Where twenty thousand people a day coming from China into the US The president made a very courageous decision and was one of the first About leaders of a of a major country to make that decision I think it was the first leader of a major economic power to make the decision to stop the Incoming travel have been in China or over originated in China that the United States You know six to eight weeks to prepare for the virus. He's done a number of other things we brought in to the White House. Debbie burks Fantastic physician master from the State Department and we appreciate secretary. Pond Pail I immediately moving her over to the White House at at our request. The president's request he vice president pence in charge of the task force which has been meeting. sometimes twice a day Over the last almost two months I'd get our arms around Krona so I like this is a. This is a complicated issue and decks and an epidemic. Sir are some of the greatest challenges we face as a country. I think we've done a good job responding to it but it is you know. Look it's the way that this Started out in China. The way it was handled from the outset was not right. It should have been handled differently but we are where we are right now We're doing our best to work with the Chinese One thing I'll point out is when we evacuated our citizens from Wuhan on that the the the seven forty sevens that That flew into that city. We're loaded with medical supplies mask personal protective equipment A medical supplies and those were furnished by the government they were. They were furnished by Americans by Samaritan's purse and by the the LDS church out in Salt Lake and other Americans wanted to help the people in China. And so. I think we've been. We've done what we can. We've sent our condolences to China. But now we're in a stage where we're having to deal with the crisis here. We hear a target. Usa have been constantly asking the White House and the National Security Council for updates on this situation. And here's what we got. Today May Sixth Twenty. Twenty from a senior administration official. And I'm going to read the statement. It's kind of lengthy so bear with me. It says the Chinese government's misleading covert Nineteen Response Narrative. And the course of mask diplomacy demonstrate. Why we should all be concerned about granting untrusted vendors to communications infrastructure like five G. Networks as stated in the national strategy to secure five G. The security of telecommunications networks are vital to US national security and economic interest allowing untrusted vendors such as way which is subject to direction by the Chinese Communist Party to control any part of our five G. Network makes critical communications systems vulnerable to disruption manipulation and espionage and it says the president and his administration are committed to protecting the American people from these threats. Which have the potential to harm critical infrastructure public health and safety and our economic and national security. So that statement on the back of what National Security Advisor Robert? O'brien said about the situation in China. Looking at what? We've told you already today. China's been taunting the US and and not allowing US doctors and scientists and researchers to come into Wuhan to take a look at what happened with the corona virus there has put the US and China on a very difficult and very concerning path. And it's not clear where it's going or when we'll have any idea what will happen next. We'll just have to stay tuned and you can bet target USA. We'll do that and when we learn about it we'll bring it to you. That's it for this week's program next week we'll be back on. The Kuroda virus beat figuring out the latest. We'll be looking as well at the world as a whole and all of the national and international security threats. That are out there. In the meantime if you have any questions or comments send me an email at J. Green at WTO P DOT com. That's the letter j the Color Green. That's one word at Whiskey Tango Oscar Papa Dot Com J. Green at W. T. O. P. dot com also. Please follow us on twitter at T- USA podcast. That's at Tango Uniform Sierra Alpha podcast and if you want more information about the US national security you can sign up for my newsletter. It's called inside the skiff and you can sign up at WTO DOT com slash alerts. I'm Jay Jay Green and this has targeted. Usa The national security. Podcast be sure to check out. Podcast once great true crime programming including shows like copycat killers from the reels channel. This is Dr J. Buzz von Steiner forensic psychologists from copycat killers real channels true crime program about real murders inspired by movies cold case files from from any. This is cold case files. I'm Brooke and here's the dignified. Bill Kurtis with the classic case. Taunt and court junkie which was recently named Marie Clair's list of top true crime. Podcast this is Gillian. And you're listening to court chunky now for the latest headlines from the Associated Press.

China United States Chinese Communist Party Wuhan USA China Chinese government Cdc Brian Dugan Jay Jay Green Mike Rogers WTO Washington FBI Cova Nineteen National Security Purposes National Security State Department US National Counterproliferati Cova
Target USA -- Episode 178: Cyber vulnerabilities may be world's No. 1 security threat

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

29:36 min | 1 year ago

Target USA -- Episode 178: Cyber vulnerabilities may be world's No. 1 security threat

"From podcast wine coming up in this episode of Target U._S._A.. It you can see ships aircrafts tanks but you can't ski algorithms and that makes it <music> a difficult. That's Admiral Manfred Nielsen Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Transformation with NATO and he talked with us about NATO's most pressing concern as the future approaches rapidly Ali. Our biggest concern is currently how to deal with big data we in military have to understand how to deal with data. They may be more precious than gold old and diamonds and oil in the future on this program. We'll hear from Nielsen. We'll also hear from the F._B._I.. And we'll hear from cybersecurity executives about exactly how difficult is problem problem is and will lay out for you why you are the key to solving this problem coming up on this edition of Target U._S._A.. The National Security podcast from W._T._o.. In Washington D._C.. This is target U._S._A.. Russia could render huge arm to this country North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the hall of the United States Dangerous Terraced Terrorist D._C.. Is repeatedly mentioned place. They would like to seek an attack cyber. Criminals Success America has a target on its back and on this program we investigate the threats the people behind behind them the agency's fighting them and the impact on you. This is target U._S._A.. The national security podcast. I'm Jay Jay Green for more than a decade U.. S. and other Western military officials have been warning that the pace of change will be the biggest threat to the national security of every nation. The driving factor in that is the threat of cyber vulnerabilities. One of the key reasons why it's such a danger is the difficulty in painting a picture of the threat to capture the attention of the average person cyber you can see <hes> ships aircraft tanks but you can't ski algorithms. That's Admiral Manfred Nielsen Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Transformation for NATO and when we sat down with him to talk several weeks ago so he put the threat into very simple terms and he made it clear there is no dividing line when it comes to who is threatened more by cyber vulnerabilities. We have to understand that you can't separate military from civilian cyber. Perhaps seven will have much more impact on the civilian live than military live why you remember perhaps the tag which has happened on the hospitals Nelson in U._k.. A couple of months ago and people people were focused too when they recognized okay you can can execute a kind of a silent war without using kinetics and AH which has a lot of impact on people's mind and these society and that's I think important to understand. It's a concern for the military as well as the other parts of the national security establishment. I think probably the primary concern there is China. That's Benjamin read senior manager for Cyber espionage analysis in the intelligence unit at cybersecurity firm Fireeye we've seen with the opium hack with the assertive health insurance hotel stuff <hes> where China's really gone in and stolen a huge amount of data and they have this sort of computing power they have the other stuff where they're able to to index at altogether and really get a picture of American society so if you have everybody security clements information you know who's working for the U._S.. Government who has worked for the U._S.. Government who is the cousin of somebody who worked for the U._S.. Government and you can identify people that if they travel the China you need to watch them. If people have relatives in China things like that and really identify pressure points so big data is definitely a something of concern because people where we have concentrated data get stolen and get exploited and believe it or not that is the number one headache for NATO right now. Our biggest concern is currently how to deal with big data because I'm deeply convinced that those who get rid of data <hes> the future successive future future witness prep state out as we talk every second the amount of data is increasing basic significantly and we in military have to understand how to deal with data data may be more precious than gold and diamonds and oil in the future those were the the guys who can deal with data who aware about the impact of data they rely they will world. That's another part of the problem getting people to understand how big data impacts them personally again. Benjamin read from Fireeye what you need to be aware of depends on who you are. If you're a employee of the department defense you definitely need to be worried about nation-states because you may have access to data that's of interest to Russia. If you run a grocery store in Texas you may the Russians maybe on your information but you can definitely get ransomware on your computer you can you may have payment card data that could be stolen so the ability of people from really around the world to target you you through the Internet. It's such a flattening of geography. They're being that you need to you. Don't necessarily be aware of everything but you need to sort of evaluate okay. What do I have a value that is on a computer that question is very easy to answer for large corporations? It's millions and in some cases billions of dollars in assets intellectual property and even human resources that to the fact that tens of thousands or more of baby boomers us with security clearances are in the process of leaving the U._S.. Government then it's clear why the nation's adversaries reporting unprecedented resources into efforts to get at what's in their heads. Recently on sixty minutes John d'humieres assistant attorney general of the National Security Division at the Justice Department along with Bill Evans Lena Director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center talked about now the urgent threat the U._S. is facing Brian Dugan assistant special agent in charge for counterintelligence at the Washington field office of the F._B._i.. Told Target U._S._A.. d'humieres and have Anina hit the nail on the head in the six minutes interviews. I think you couldn't say any better than Assistant Attorney General d'humieres and then Mr Avenida where they basically both said that it's unprecedented unprecedented the the threat from our our foreign adversary specifically China on the economic espionage on the espionage front that there's <hes> such a desire for our foreign adversaries to gain access to classified information to do U._S.. Government intentions and I think the large populations not something that's being calculated by our foreign intelligence service <hes> adversaries but I think it's just a vulnerability that we in the U._S.. Government have that we're aware of and just their luck that it's becoming available and every nation state cyber activity that's going after the U._S.. Has a different objective. Benjamin read Fireeye by with Russia. We see the majority of their stuff is traditional espionage targeted against government so misery to foreign affairs misuse of defense and that's very active Russia is the most sophisticated of the these groups <hes> their malware are just as it is a little bit more effective the things a little bit more sneaky <hes> but the other thing that what sets Russia apart is their use of cyber for real world impacts and that's we've seen a number of different ways. We've seen them turn off the power power in Ukraine. We've seen them obviously interfere in the U._S.. Elections Heck Information in league it <hes> but that's not the only thing that you've seen we've seen them target industrial control systems in the Middle East. We've seen them really go. After sporting organisations leak that information in response las to some of the the doping bands of Russian athletes so Russia really is active and sees cyber as a way to get sort of real world effects. We also see some of that trump around a little bit more similar profile though Iran on does their effect in different ways. We've seen sort of wiper attacks from Ron going back to incidents at Saudi Aramco five or six years ago and then as recently as passed December wiper attacks deals with a type of malware her a wiper is a class of malware. WHO's intention is to wipe clean the hard drive of the computer it affects or they'll they'll compromise a network and they'll go in and they'll they'll wipe the information on computers and render them useless us and we've seen them primarily used that regionally against their perceived adversaries in the Gulf as a way to disrupt the economic life and things like that but we do see Iran active in the United States in Europe sometimes in East Asia but that's been more stealing information <hes> a couple of isolated disruptive attacks in the U._S. but that's been more stealing information though with the current tensions we do y that as kind of relations between the U._S.? On Iran deteriorate ah they may use that destructive capability against the United States. That's one of the things watching for and while a lot of people may be watching to see what Iran does its capabilities may have been limited because the U._S. covertly launched offensive Ziff cyber operations against Iranian intelligence computers back in June the cyber strikes which were approved by president trump targeted computer systems used to control missile and rocket launches that were chosen in several months ago for potential disruption. Finally the North Korea North Korea actually has as destructive activities that with the Sony attack twenty fourteen but it's not something they've really used recently recently North Korea has pivoted to you being almost a cybercrime actor where a lot of the stuff we see from them financially motivated and that's been high-profile things like the swift that's sort of public reported Bengal Banca the Bank of Bangladesh stuff but also believe seeing a lot of targeting of crypto currencies for them encrypt currency exchanges cryptocurrency users things like that where they're going in and they're trying still bitcoin another stuff because that's there's a lot of financial sanctions on North Korea so it's hard for them to sort of do business in dollars or things like bat but bitcoin really enforce sanctions a lot easier to be anonymous things like that so if they're able to steal bitcoin and then sort of launder that into money we've seen that from them they still do a little bit of traditional espionage but that's primarily focused on on South Korea on big tanks kind of trying to get at other perceptions of how they're looked at route the world and all this is taking place during timeframe in which hackers are better than they've ever been and here's something that paints a picture of just how good they are these days. Have you ever heard of something called breakout time. Breakout time is a key metric used to track the speed of hackers once they break into an organization and then began end to move laterally onto other systems that they're targeting to get at the crown jewels in a network and began propagating their advanced exploits across the system. It's really an indication of how effective they are at hands on keyboard keyboard activity just how skilled their operatives are. There's really nothing worse than a highly skilled highly motivated bad actor that can operate at speed James Yeager is vice president of public sector and healthcare at crowd strike Trek Russians in Russian nation state actors or bears as we call him are the fastest adversaries with an average of eighteen minutes in forty nine seconds. That's I mean that's incredibly fast in demonstrates how skilled in now determined this group is North Korea was second. We call them to Lima's. They have a an average time of two hours. Twenty minutes Chinese nation state actors or pandas weaver to them as our third their breakout times in average of four hours in twenty success Iranian nation state actors or Kittens came in fourth with an average breakout time of five hours nine minutes and four seconds and then lastly e crime actors known as spiders break out the slowest of all the adversary groups with the average time nine hours forty three minutes in twenty three seconds there too key points to a member number one the home nations of all of those hacker groups had yeager her mentioned except the crime actors our adversaries of the U._S. and number two they all get help from their governments in their exploits against whatever their targets are and this is why NATO is so concerned about. The problem again Admiral Nielsen NATO is always only as strong as the nation saw because NATO is nothing anonymous may organization we depend on the support we received from from the nations and that's the challenge because we are competing with industry and others about experts in cyber and the amount of experts is limited and Admiral Nielsen said that that limitation on the number of experts available was a key reason why NATO decided not to build its own cyber command he seemed to suggest it would be like building a house with no one to live in it building new command and ask for what purpose and be aware that these experts are limited really limited and we are in competition with the nations and once again. Let me stress when I'm talking about cyber cyber will have much more impact on the civilian life than on the military live at Nielsen has hit on another key point Good Morning J._J.. What would you like for breakfast? My son says tell me the refrigerator race has lots of options inside every day with more and more daily tasks being computerized in some way from banking cars to door locks right down to appliances like washers and dryers and refrigerators waiters in the home ransomware attacks could completely shut down every aspect of our lives. This is why public sector experts are much more in demand and why NATO didn't want to compete with them that mistrust example when I was Scott went through the local bank seventy percent of the people were engaged in customer services they gave you the money they wrote the shacks and all these things nowadays when you're going to the local bank you will find an A._T._m.. Outside and seventy percent of the people are engaged in protection of data which is cyber and I think that's important to understand and to tell ingoing stories to to two people what cyber is talking about. ALGORITHMIC doesn't make sense because otherwise people will not a <hes> the whale about the today impact civil have on. I love the F._b._I.'s Brian. Dugan says they are well aware of that challenge so what they've done his tried to put together a team to educate people in their area of operations about the problem. We're getting <hes> working groups together that will go across government agencies to make sure that one <hes> the outreach to not only or federal partners about the internal risk and the retire retiree risk risk but also to our corporate partners to educate on the risk that the enemy is looking for any and all opportunities to click information about the U._S. government the U._S. intelligence community and <hes> U._S. government our senior U._S.. Company secrets and advantage are indeed technology interact democ sector so we are in full were full all core press with outreach to get the education out there and the audiences <hes> <hes> open to listening about this more and more these days because they see the <hes> the transfer for of technology that transfer of information in companies are seeing their bottom line slip because it used to be we wanted to have openings into the market and and the Chinese <hes> government controls our own economy whereas the United States is the economy's on its own the government's on its own and there's a separation for good reason <hes> but we don't have spies spices Mr Moore said stealing secrets from other foreign companies to give to a Google Google do their own thing but in China the Communist Party is going to support their own companies and so this is not just a F._B._i.. Versus the Chinese government. This is a whole government the whole United States toward together to protect our bottom line our own interests Erin secrets as you. You might have figured out by now from a U._S.. Perspective there is a correlation between hackers data and espionage that connection is that the bad actors whether they're criminal hackers or nation state agents or both they're all all interested in getting their hands on U._S.. Data and they're all converging at the same time and that raises the question for the F._B._i.. Can spy slip through in Washington because you guys cover those plays like a blanket and you put your very busy. I mean there's a lot going on. Can they slip through of course there's always going to be moments that we're going to have people <hes> decide to cooperate with the enemy and we're gonNA find him. We're GONNA catch him <hes> like I said it's just not the F._B._i.. It's not just the U._S.. Government keeping Ni- out <hes> in the watchtower it is everybody involved that we get our <hes> contract <hes> defense contractors tractors on lookout <hes> we have their subcontractors that work with them on the lookout <hes> we have <hes> active engagement with <hes> multiple fronts in the private sector <hes> academic sectors so oh. It's not just one agency or just one government that's doing this. We're all doing it in partnership <hes> to make sure that we don't let things slip by but the key according to the experts is is that everyone needs to recognize that we're no longer protected or insulated from hostile forces overseas they can rob US blind. Come the comfort of their own home five miles away or five thousand miles miles away they can slip into our pockets and steal everything we own because of technology technology that Admiral Nielsen says we need to learn more about look at artificial intelligence. Everybody has efficient heads in his pocket the cellphone but how to adapt these artificial intelligence in the military environment that's important in the past we are. We are talking about the process. We talked about ten ships and happens but you will not find any about artificial intelligence disruptive technologies all these things. And that's important to understand over dedicates military development inference pretty much civilian development and I believe I can't be identified the right time but let me say three four five years ago it changed civilian development influenced the military but we didn't accept this the Google the Amazons Microsoft of the world they are the trendsetters of the future think now for us. It's important to collaborate in order to achieve resilience took collaborate with these trendsetter so the interaction action between military and civilian world is not an option must admiral the piece. I hear you mentioning in this conversation. That you know is very clear that there's an you know. There's there's a divide. There is the military's very disciplined. There's no doubt about it if it wasn't it couldn't it wouldn't be effective. No matter where you go but one thing you see and I can say thanks for sure in the United States and perhaps and other places to civilians have difficult time focusing on the danger the reality the problem of cyber perhaps because they can't visualize it. <hes> you know you spend a lot of time and I and others spend a lot of time trying to tell people pay this could be a devastating attack or problem but as you say you can't see Algorithms and people are like yeah sure but I just need to get back to my facebook okay so and that's an important you know we using our civilian tie in our civilian live these new technologies and we enjoy it but to implement this in the protection of country. That's a challenge you know two years ago in Germany they sold to one hundred thousand micro drones helicopter says Christmas gift but when we are talking about implementing commenting these drones in the civilian environment you will see how many lawmakers have their concerns about this the technologies available so I think it's important to understand that our adversaries therese will not hesitate to these and I think it's a a toxic for military as well as political leaders to explain to the citizens the dangerous dangerous as well the advantages we are not become make our choice. Hey this. I like that I dislike. I think that's a that's a unacceptable. That's Admiral Manfred Nielsen Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Transformation with NATO. Just bring the point home about why everyone at every level needs to focus on cyber and the risk attached. Here's here's a story that occurred just yesterday July Sixteenth Twenty nineteen cyber attacks are exploding in every country around the world and even on the high seas and a serious problem has been uncovered in February very large freighter. It's called a deep draft vessel weighing probably about one hundred thousand tons was headed for the point of New York in New Jersey and they reported they were experiencing a significant cyber incident impacting their shipboard network an investigation by the coastguard determine that malware had significantly degraded the ships onboard computer and here's the problem today engines and navigation systems on vessels like that are controlled by mouse clicks had an advanced cyber attacker with malicious intent taken over that vessel disaster could have struck the port of New York New Jersey what's more important and disturbing disturbing for U._S.. International maritime authorities this was not an isolated incident and here's a really concerning piece of information the navigation systems on that vessel and other key functions were controlled rolled by the same computer that the crew could use her email banking and other personnel matters as a result of this incident. The Coast Guard issued recommendations strong recommendations that vessel and facility owners and operators and other responsible parties wake up to the realities of cybersecurity more details about this will be coming out on the target U._S._A.. Twitter feed and T- U._S._A.. podcast outcast that hopefully puts his all into context for you. Thanks for listening today. We appreciate your time. I'm deeply grateful that you gave us the opportunity to share a little bit of your time and that's going to do it for this this episode of Target U._S._A.. Coming up on our next program as the world's struggles with what's real and what's not our frame of reference is becoming harder and harder to shape deep fakes. It's a technique for human emits synthesis USCIS based on artificial intelligence. It's used to combine and superimpose existing images and videos onto source images or videos by using a simple technique. We're entering an era in which are enemies can make it look like anyone is saying anything at any point in time that voice sounded like former president Barack Obama and the video looked like him as well but neither was true while it seems funny. Sometimes it can have serious implications. It's for the U._S.. National Security Community today when image or Pixel or video manipulation is becoming more and more available I have to we have to reset confidence levels that was former director the national geospatial intelligence agency Robert Cardillo and on our next program we'll examine in-depth deep fakes and the problems they can cause banks again for listening if you have any questions or comments thank me an email at J. Green at W. T. O. P. DOT com. That's the letter J. The color green one word at Whiskey Tango Oscar Papa J. Green at W. T. O. P. dot com also check out our newsletter inside the skiff. You can sign up at W._T._o.. P DOT com slash alerts. This is our weekly email that rounds up all of the interesting national security news that you don't know about and just one final Fang. Please subscribed to our podcast. I'm Jay Jay Green and this is target U._S._A.. National Security podcast calling all true crime fans the court Junkie Honky podcast is now on podcast. One imagine being wrongfully convicted for crime you didn't commit or killer is on the loose. Even though there's enough evidence for an arrest the court junkie podcast shines a light.

NATO United States Russia North Korea Admiral Manfred Nielsen China Supreme Allied Commander Brian Dugan Nielsen Washington Jay Jay Green Admiral Nielsen Benjamin Iran Google Fireeye president Admiral Nielsen NATO Middle East
Stephanie's Second Chance | S2 E9

The City

06:41 min | 1 year ago

Stephanie's Second Chance | S2 E9

"Hey everyone robin here have another update to share with you about season to our story about Reno now if this is your first time listening to the city we recommend that you go back to the start of season two because that way the story will make a lot more sense. Okay thanks previously on the city. We all know that this is a theater and I think that what he's saying. As far as a you know the name of the game is to step up to the line and not go over it. I think that's true. That's undercover cop or said. Oh we need someone to sit on my buddy and like I'm just thinking like okay. Well if I go sit on his lap. I'm for sure going to get that aunt. Will you ask view her down there? Didn't she respond by saying maybe she responded twice by saying maybe you know it's all in the tape like maybe not yes so. I was currently confident praying lot. The next judge will actually see that I didn't do anything wrong Okay so that voice you heard. Was Stephanie Remember her? She's a single mom who was working as a dancer at the Spice House when of Cami Cash. Mary's Strip clubs. Stephanie is the one who got caught up in an undercover police staying and was later found guilty of solicitation for prostitution. Now when we last heard from Stephanie she was still stripping while she waited for the courts to review her case and the stakes were high if her conviction stock she would lose her license to dance in Reno but back in March. The courts reached a decision in Stephanie's appeal. We got her on the phone right after she spoke to her lawyer. Mark Fuhrman Cure Stephanie. Mark called me and told me the great news that I want to appeal. I always felt like I would hear those words Monday because I really am innocent and you know I really think and do anything wrong and so I was just hoping for that. They were just trying to force it trying to make it stick. They just didn't WanNa make it go away. But when officers heard no the first three times he should back off and not even tried to push for. I feel like they were trying to like entrapped. Me I'm just happy that this judge ruled in my favor. Think on I think because I'm GonNa never made it through like I was so you know shook enough. I was so sad about the whole thing. Like I couldn't believe that you know I never been in trouble in my life and they were trying to make me look like some person I wasn't. It'd painting as a bad person anybody that nearly he knows. I'm on and I just couldn't believe that I was even in opposition in the first place. It's over now and I can move on and do great things. I'm so busy these days. I have two jobs. Actually I go to school. I haven't been to reno in a long time. I'm a single mom and I was just there to provide for my girls. I was the only option I had at that time because I live in California. It's really expensive here. In minimum wage jobs were just not king for my bills. I just you know just wanted to support my kids. I'll do whatever it takes to support my kids. I mean how much like the money was really good. That's all higher I like. That's only part I am going to school actually and then getting this new job. I you know seeing on the table to like make that same amount but this closer to home. I don't have to dry out there than I don't. I don't want to. That's it for this bonus episode. That's also it for the city. I'm sorry to say this is our last episode at least for now. Usa Today has decided to end the show. We've so loved bringing you stories for the past two years and we're so grateful to everyone who's listened and supported our work in the meantime we hope you'll continue to support local journalists in your city and that you stay safe during this pandemic the city has been production of USA. Today distributed in partnership with wondering or bonus. Episode today was reported and produced by Internet Damon. Camille Stanley Taylor making a meet. Robin Aamer our editors are any pile and Mac original music and mixing by Hannah's Brown legal review by Tom Curley editorial oversight by Brian. Dugan and Chris Davis I'm Robin Hammer. Thank you so much for listening.

Stephanie Reno Mark Fuhrman robin Robin Aamer Usa Camille Stanley Taylor Spice House USA. Today Cami Cash Mary Tom Curley California Robin Hammer Dugan solicitation Hannah prostitution Brian Chris Davis
Apr 03, 2020

Sword and Scale Daily

17:16 min | 1 year ago

Apr 03, 2020

"We want to create the best overall. Show experience possible. We appreciate feedback about the show and learning a bit more about you the listener we're asking our listeners. To take a short survey that takes less than five minutes. Please visit the PODCAST survey dot com slash daily to take a short anonymous survey. Help support the show. As a reward survey participants each month will be entered to win one hundred dollars Amazon gift certificate a new winner every month again. That's the podcast. Survey DOT COM slash daily for a quick survey to help the show. Thanks for listening. Hello and welcome back the sword and scaled daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Friday April third coming up on certain scale daily Georgia man. One don't suspicion of a triple murder and kidnapping was arrested in. Florida following high-speed chasing a six hour standoff police in Michigan say Hazel Park? Man Killed his wife and slept with her body every night for a week. A Wisconsin woman has been extradited Indiana to face charges an eighteen year old cold case murder final league in Los Angeles Federal Prosecutors say Engineer Deliberately B. Roll the train trying to aim at in. Us Navy hospital ship. All this and more coming up on sorting scaled daily Florida state troopers arrested. Caesar's Zamin crooked junior near Tampa on Wednesday after high speed chase. An armed standoff crooked. Junior is suspected of murdering three people making Georgia on Tuesday and if kidnapping his two year old son he will be extradited Georgia the face charges. According to the Bibb County Sheriff's Office on Tuesday night around nine twenty pm twenty nine year old. Crockett junior got into an argument with thirty year. Old Jamila French. The mother of his two year old son during the argument. Crockett junior pull out a gun. He proceeded to fatally shoot French. His mother sixty seven year old. Janet Samuel her stepfather sixty nine year. Old James Samuel and her sister forty-seven-year-old Lich hoste child's crooked shot French too but she survived when detectives arrived at the scene at approximately nine. Thirty Crockett was gone. He'd kidnapped the sun and fled the scene in a black two thousand seven pontiac g five coupe with temporary license plate at one. Am on Wednesday. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation issued an amber alert for King. Cain and Caesar Crockett however according to W. M. A. Z. News Thirteen for some reason. Be Alert was only made public seven hours later. The G. B. I. is investigating the cause of this delay. Shortly after noon on Wednesday Tampa police officers in an unmarked car spotted. Crockett's vehicle on interstate seventy five and began following him. Tampa police chief. Brian Dugan told NBC News quote. The suspect at some point realized it was a Tampa police officer behind him and tried to flee the scene. This sparked a high speed pursuit. That quote lasted for quite some time. The chase which reached speeds of one hundred and twenty miles per hour ended when Crockett crashes car on an exit ramp for seventy five Crockett lettuce. Son Go not long after but remained barricaded in his car. He surrendered around seven forty PM. According to Chief Dugan quote they just kept talking to him. I don't know if you've just got tired. Or what but eventually he surrendered and we were able to take him into custody with no problems whatsoever. After the standoff ended police allegedly recovered firearm. From Crockett's car crooked is charged with three counts of murder and one count of kidnapping. He will be extradited to Georgia to face charges. Our next story brings us to Michigan. Forty-five-year-old Jeff Sherwood has been charged with first degree murder of his wife. Sixty four year old Susan Klapisch whose body was discovered inside the couple's Hazel Park home. This weekend on Saturday officers went to carry it a welfare check at the residence at the request of Friends of the couple. He's parked police. Chief brain buckles told Michigan live quote. Their friends hadn't heard from them in while they went into the house and the suspect and his wife were lying in bed and appeared to be sleeping. The suspect woke up and appear to be incoherent. Didn't get a response when the victim and we're concerned for her Hazel Park. Police officers entered the residence and like the friends found the suspect and his wife apparently asleep in bed. When officers tried to speak to the couple Sherwood woke up but clips remained unresponsive. It soon became apparent that Deceased for days and Sherwood was subsequently arrested. Police say that when interviewed Sherwood confessed to killing his wife during an argument. Her death at occurred nearly a week before it was discovered sure would allegedly told investigators that he strangled his wife to death after she accused him of cheating on her heels said that the slaying he had returned to the bedroom every night to sleep by her side before the officers arrived at the residence sure would have taken an aspirin to kill himself following an autopsy. The Oakland County Medical Examiner concluded that clips died by homicide. She died as a result of blows to her head and Neck area Detroit. Local news four reported that the couple married in two thousand eighteen just a year later in November of two thousand nineteen please recalled the house for domestic violence at the time. Clutch told investigators her husband in pusher the ground and grabbed her by her face. News FOUR ADDS. That short has previous criminal convictions for burglary in shoplifting. In the State of Florida Sherwood was rain on Monday. On a single count of first degree murderer his probable cause hearing scheduled for April seventh. Our NEXT STORY TAKES US TO INDIANA. On Wednesday March Twenty Fifth Holy Boys. Vert was arrested in connection with a cold case murder of her friend Stacy Grand Champ. Police allege that in two thousand two boys vert then sixteen years old fatally stabbed the seventeen year old grand champ in Fort Wayne. Indiana Boys Vert is thirty three years old and has resided in Fond Du Lac Wisconsin since two thousand eleven. She was arrested there by Fort Wayne Detectives with assistance from fondue officers and extradited to Indiana. She was booked into the Allen. County jail on Tuesday based on the probable cause affidavit obtained by W. N. A. E. News fifteen on the night of August fifteenth. Two Thousand and two police found a grand champ lying in front of a Fort Wayne House bleeding from sharp force wound. She was taken to a hospital but succumbed to her injuries. Investigators quickly learned that. The grand champ was injured in a backyard. Fight between her and boys verd- one witness to the altercation told detectives that boys ver had told him quote. Two Grand Champ is going to take a beating tonight before she headed to the backyard and pick the fight with the grand champ. The altercation quickly turned physical and both girls fell on the floor and continued to wrestle. A second witness told police that when he dragged the grand champ away from the fight she took a few steps before collapsing to the ground bleeding from her chest when boys vert was interviewed in two thousand two. She told detectives that she'd been sitting on the front steps of a house when a friend told her that the grand champ who was in the backyard was not matter boys for the headed to the backyard. Thinking this would be fine but when she showed up to grand champion quote. What is she doing here? And then according to boys vert insulted one of boys verts friends. That's when the fight became physical boys were denied. Having a knife she said two grand champ must have been injured by something sharp from recycling bin that had overturned during the fight in two thousand three. A witness told police that boys were changing his sweats and put her ponytail before heading to the backyard. A friend of boys verts also came forward claiming that boys vert told them after the fact the she'd been carrying a knife on the night of August fifteenth two thousand. Two boys allegedly told the friend that she stabbed to grant multiple times. And then wash your hands and hid the knife. The investigation was relaunched last year. Investigators reexamined the forensic evidence and interview boys vert and the witness again during one interview. Boys Vert voluntarily gave police a knife. It was later determined to be forensically consistent with the murder weapon. The affidavit states that in late two thousand nineteen during another interview boys allegedly confessed to the crime. The detective who interviewed her reported that a tearful boys vert said in his presence quote. I think I killed my best friend. And that's why you're here and quote if I just walked away and not turned around to fight charges against boys vert have yet to be filed after the break authorities. Seen engineer deliberately derailed a train in an attempt to damage the US Navy hospital ship mercy which is docked in Los Angeles. It's a trying time. The challenges all of our basic assumptions. However one thing that brings us all together is our common humanity now more than ever teams must come together and work together to solve big challenges and Trello is to help Trillo part of Atlassian collaborative sweet is an with an easy to understand visual format plus tons of features that make working with your team functional and just plain fun teams of all shapes and sizes and companies like Google fender and even costco all used Trello to collaborate. And get work done with Trillo. You can work with your team wherever you are whether it's at home or in an office no matter what device you're using computer tablet or phone. Trello sinks across all of them so you can stay up to date on all the things your team carries about. Keep your workflow going from wherever you are with Trello try Trello for free and learn more at Trello DOT com. That's T. R. E. L. L. O. DOT COM trello DOT COM now for our final story of the day forty four year old Edward Marino. A train engineer from San Pedro has been charged with one. Count of train wrecking an offence punishable by maximum sentence of twenty years in federal prison federal prosecutors in Los Angeles alleged that on Tuesday Marina deliberately ran a Pacific Harbor Line train off the tracks in Los Angeles harbor with the intent of hitting the US. Ns mercy which is docked there. The train crashed through safety barriers. At the end of the track ultimately stopping two hundred and fifty yards shy of the mercy. Marino reportedly confessed. His crime was motivated by conspiracy theory regarding ships quote true mission the US Ns Mercy Hospital ship docked in Los Angeles Port on Friday. It's meant to provide assistance to the city's medical facilities as they contend with the current pandemic on Tuesday march. Thirty first brain drove the train off the off the track at top speed launching it through several barriers according to a court affidavit obtained by the La Times the derailment was witnessed by California Highway Patrol. Officer the officer reported seen quote the train smashed into a concrete barrier at the end of the track smash into a steel bear here smashed into a chain link fence slide through the parking lot. Slide through another law filled with gravel and smashed into a second chain link fence prosecutors. Say that video footage from inside. The train shows Morocco holding lip flare as hedy rows of the train it also reportedly shows. The train narrowly missing collision with three occupied vehicles as it careened through the harbor. Fortunately no one was injured but the train spilled fuel which had to be cleaned by specialized has met crew according to the siege. Be Officer after the crash. Rano trying to flee the scene but the officer prevented him from doing so reno allegedly told the officer quote. You only get this chance once. The whole world is watching a had. Two people don't know what's going on here. Now they will renew was handed over to the Los Angeles Port Police and then to the FBI. Federal prosecutors say that he repeated his confession in another interview admitting that he deliberately crash the train for the reason that it is quote. Now people think it is but serves a hidden purpose as a part of a shadowy government conspiracy surrounding the corona virus during his interview with the FBI Moreno allegedly said that while he did not hit the mercy he thought his act will still bring media attention to the ship and quote. Wake people up during the same interview according to Prosecutors Reno also stated quote. Sometimes you get a little snap and man. It was freaking exciting. I just had it and I was committed. I just went for it. I had one chance. Ns Mercy is in Los Angeles to local hospitals by taking over the treatment of non crony virus patients. The hospital ship has one thousand beds and twelve operating rooms. And it's carrying eight hundred. Medical staff members began boarding patients on Sunday. The mercy is expected to stay in Los Angeles until September or until. It's no longer needed. That's it for today's episode of sword and skilled daily. We'll see back here next week. Remember stay home if you can if you have to go out six feet away from people but most importantly stay safe sort scale. Daily is an incongruity media production. Your host does Ryan Williams researching writing by Hagar Barack executive producer. Mike if you the show subscribe and leave us a review if you bite the writers with feedback or suggestions use the email Chris Daly. It's WINDSCALE DOT com. Do you need something to listen to next. We'll check out this other show from Cast Media Jacob Tula I'm Jamie and we're your host of strictly stocking each episode. We're going to bring you a new stalking case covering the INS and outs of each stalker victim and their stores. Ask any weapon. What is is it a gun nine. She hated me so much. She found my stepmother Brendan her and then was caught. Making a plan to attack me with my stepmother he shows up to my gallery and he's wearing a space suit. He looks at me and he goes. You look like Jessica Rabbit in lieu from the Fifth Element and then he looks at me very intensely and goes and I'm GonNa Stock You. We hear about the cops not really doing anything or not. Really caring about the craft store. There's a lot of the shame for doctors. The Predator who'd been stalking me for forty four years was starting to really interfere with my life and my freedom a lot more than he had been one of those random messages on my damn it was like. I'm coming and I'll see you on this date responding today and then it was like a verification of offset all of a sudden I hear a knock at the door so I opened the door and their day. Six foot something gentleman standing in front of me with a backpack and he looks at me and he said. Are you Erin kind of panicked? Because this isn't Larry. He followed me to my work and he grabbed me. Push me into the door and die. I'm blocking unblock May. Why did he blocked me? I'm Jacob Jamie BB. Strictly stocking mayors on January twenty. First we subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you listen podcasts like Oh my God. This person will stop texting me. Soft calling me if you keep showing up everywhere. Then that's when it's like you're like Oh shit.

Los Angeles Caesar Crockett murder Georgia Officer Florida Tampa kidnapping Indiana Michigan Hazel Park Us Navy hospital engineer Jeff Sherwood Ryan Williams Trello Fort Wayne Holy Boys Georgia Bureau of Investigatio
Target USA -- Episode 207: Cyber Trouble in 2020

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

20:14 min | 1 year ago

Target USA -- Episode 207: Cyber Trouble in 2020

"From podcast one coming up in this episode of target USA The deepening cyber problems the US US and its allies are experiencing and so one night around midnight midnight. Shouldn't tent. And I and I had these cyber professionals from eight different countries in there and I asked him I said Hey thank you in. This room has never had the Chinese in your networks on inviting. Everybody just Kinda looked around as I guess what I thought okay. Who in this room is never had the Russians uninvited uninvited in your networks? No hands was like what I thought I said. Hey we have the same adversary deal with the same problem sets in this domain yet. We don't have as close a partnership is I think we could. That's Command Sergeant Major William Reinhardt from. US Army South. Have you ever thought about whether the US and its allies in the western hemisphere work together against adversaries in the cyber realm bike Russia and China. Well there's a lot of work that needs to be done to make the situation better and reinhard talks about it on this episode of target. USA He national security podcast from WTO NOT OATH in Washington. DC THIS IS TARGET USA. Russia could render huge arm to this country North Korea's the secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States Dangerous Terrorist D. C. is repeatedly mentioned as some place they would like to see an attack cyber criminals decryption encryption. Success America has a target on its back and on this program. We investigate the threats. The people behind them the agency's fighting them and the impact on you. This is target. USA The national security podcast. Aw I'm Jay Jay Green House. This happened to you. Roy Moore Mr War. This is Jerry. A healing with People Power Executive Placement Service out of New York. I was just calling to see if you were happy with your work with the work. Yes it's about the money on foreign spies or not just walking the streets here in Washington. They're in your inbox locks looking for people with classified and sensitive information. Social Media's music easier for them to find Brian Dugan assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence honor intelligence at the Washington field office of the FBI. Lincoln's one example People put out there what they did in a prior life. And here's the problem to any any good intelligence service. Those are going to be clues to find people that used to have a government job or access to clearance at one time or another. and WHO's most likely to be recruited company who gets stuck with high bills who has a lifestyle they can't sustain and then you combine that with somebody who does not believe their careers. Wears gone the right way. Maybe they feel like they've been undervalued in the system Philip mudd former deputy director of the National Security Division at the FBI. So as a record number of American citizens retire their options are wide open and Washington. Spies know that the humans and the artificial ones as well hello. Jj How are you today. I want to be your friend. There are sophisticated organizations out there that can figure out how to contact you. Sometimes leaving computerized voice. Messages suggests suggests that some fall for espionage in Washington has not been confined to human spying retired. CIA clandestine officer. Mark Kelton in two thousand fifteen fifteen Chinese intelligence. Cyber operators stole sensitive personnel information from the Office of Personnel Management Opium. So here's the simple reality. Not only. They're humans on the streets of Washington trying to recruit Americans to become spies but there are technological components and people working remotely as was simulated in this. FBI video called company man as in China. Be laughing when you hear the salary. Ah There's no way that I can move to China. Think of it as a vacation. The simple warning from the FBI. Think of the other kind of vacation and don't do it. Chinese and Russian intelligence or coming hard after US and its allies and they're coming fast senior. US officials visited London not too long ago with a last minute plea asking them not to allow hallway technologies to supply equipment for its I five G. broadband networks. They were warning that. US intelligence sharing could be at risk. Deputy National Security Adviser Matthew Pottenger singer and other officials from the State Department argued that there's no way the. US can mitigate those security risk from such network and we're told they took a dossier ASEAN of evidence with them detailing the connections between hallway and Chinese intelligence. We don't know what was in that dossier but we do know the the. US is very concerned that once actors that they suspect may be bad in the wild way network get into the US networks. There could be serious national security cured problems. That's part of an effort that's going on on the diplomatic level but there was also a military level. And it's happening on many levels within the military military one of them is running through command. Sergeant Major William Reinhardt of US army south WHO's dealing with US allies in the military in the western Western Hemisphere. So in the last probably the past two years As I came on board with his army south the journal Alter that hired me did so because of my background in the cyber or cyberworld and he asked asked him because my position has typically been held by you know an infantryman or Cav scout and throughout the history of. US Army army south as far back. As when I was in Panama and I asked him. Why did you hire reserve? He said I heard you. Because you you understand this cyber thing and and all the partners down there wanNA know about this cyber and they want help and he says I'm infantryman I can. I can do that. I can answer all those questions. I can't answer all those questions about cyber and need guys that. Can I can just pitch over you. You answer the Question House. Okay Acer. I'll do it for you and so here. We are two years later. And we got a new commander Major General. Dan Walrath came on board in July and he picked up. Right where we were you know as Major General Mark Stammer left and I'll tell you it's been a fantastic ride. But but he was right there. Cyber is is huge. You know and I had another journal Nature that I worked for in the past And he used to always say hey. Hey there's this thing called the Internet. Millions of people who are on it more everyday need to get on board and so our partner certainly had over the last half decade or in some cases a little bit longer They have certainly gone down this road to build their cyber capabilities and capacities in defense of their nations. So what are the challenges to shared interoperability in the western hemisphere so in areas of Say for cyber. It's part of it it is we spend more time looking at the cyber security aspect Defensive Cyber and I don't really spend a Lotta time we don't have a lot of time with them with them on offensive. Cyber Offensive Cyber is very touchy subject deals with sovereignty of her country are stacey grids. Nobody wants to talk about you. Know Offensive Cyber Operations. Yeah it's a touchy area. And so we don't and he was army south as we engage with our partners and part of it is just helping pointing them in the right direction. Because if you think about it Cybersecurity you know all the a lot of the cyber training you know this. Internet technology training is commercially available. It's taught you can teach yourself online in in your in your own home. You know you got kids in middle school that are that are learning how how to Code. You've got high school students. That are already a year into their stem degree. You know for their undergraduate before they even graduate graduate high school because they they've grown up with this technology and so our partners they recognize that they understand. Hey there's there's things that we can do together to strengthen the security defenses. You know the Cyprus tree defensive of of the Western Hemisphere we can. We can work together and I'll tell you it was. It was interesting about almost two years ago. When I first came into the job we had an exercise called panamax big exercise about defending the Panama Canal? Nearly Twenty countries come together. During this exercise they'll come to San Antonio and we go out in the field and we we'd do wargames about fen panel canal against an adversary and so eight of the country sent Some of their cyber professionals officials and we wanted to work into the exercise a cyber defence piece to it and so one night around midnight midnight. It shouldn't this tent and I had these cyber professionals from eight different countries in there and I asked him I said Hey who in. This room has never had the Chinese and in your network on inviting. Everybody just kind of looked around. I guess what I thought. Okay who in this room has never had the Russians and uninvited in your networks. No engine was like what I thought I said. Hey We have the same adversary Surrey. We deal with the same problem sets in this domain yet. We don't have as close a partnership as I think we we could and there are areas that we can work together particularly in cybersecurity and cyber defense critical you know. Building infrastructure restructured as defendable Helping each other shoulder to shoulder in this domain just like we stand shoulder to shoulder in the land domain the air domain and maritime domain. And so they want the one of the partner nations. He made a comment. He said. Sort of major what. You're saying revolutionary. Hey Man we can't. We can't say that word in here. We're not going to say that word but but you're right. It's just not spoken us. Oh you try to change the dialogue a little bit. There's things that we can do it. When cyber stood up that word it was so scary a lot of people because for a long time I know a lot of your You know the US a lot of the five partners that was very classified area and ground. Be In you know because we were trying to develop this. This is defense these offenses capability and and and as we do we try to get ahead of our adversaries you know. Stay in front of them and so But there's there's so much we can do together. It's not classified so give us a few examples briefly. Some of those things you can do. That aren't classified that you can give us a top of your head so Particularly training you know the US Army Cyber Center of excellence. Four Gordon Georgia inside. Had their cyber school excuse me inside their signal school they have to cyber security courses that that do particularly strictly with just cybersecurity and infrastructure. And how it how you develop good habits and it's and it's available able to international students and so I went to the signal school and I asked to combat in his sore major. I said hey you know I know you have a pretty robust international student population I think at the time they had maybe fifty six international students. I said how many of those students are from the Western Hemisphere. How many of them? I'm for central or South America. Lieutenant or major none of them not one not one student in the cybersecurity courses horses that the signal school. We're leading American descent. They were all Middle Eastern European. Okay and so I went back comments like hey doors are open. You know through the I met you know programs do the MC's and There's funding available and we can help our partners and offer them seats in classes. And so we've done that The another instance is there's a course in San Antonio Texas at the Inner American Air Force Academy also known as I am an EPA has two courses taught in Spanish that are that deals L. strictly in Cybersecurity as defense areas and those are also courses. That is new to the you know the the military And and the program and so we've offered that down to our our partners and they've taken advantage of that and I can tell you one of the One of our biggest partners in region Brazil and Colombia. I mean you know the two most park most capable military's down here in this area but I'll tell you Peru and Argentina and Chile. They're all they're all rapidly building their capabilities. And and we're we're doing everything we can to help them with that or anything that I haven't spoken to you about today that you want to speak about briefly before we show. I appreciate the opportunity to sit down with you and talk about this and I'll tell you it's been a spin an incredible ride for me You army south particularly working with our neighbors in central and south. America and Caribbean nations All of them we share the same challenges Sometimes just on a different scale and and and what we've found out what we've found what we find is we can certainly work. These problems sets a lot better if we do it together versus UH letting them try to do it on their own and and the Chinese are down in the AOR They're working really hard to to fill gaps it that their our partnership perceive or see actually have and so. It's important that we stay engaged with our partners because of the presence of the Chinese in South America Central America and the Caribbean I believe in I believe the Southcom and army south You know we can show that it's a lot greater than most people probably think The influences I mean it's just incredible predatory toward lending practices and donations of equipment. All comes with ties or partner. Not Nited states usually doesn't have a tie. We're we're neighbors and we're friends to the end. Thank you very much for that command. Sergeant major I appreciate your time. Thank you for your time appreciate you. That was command sergeant. Major William Reinhardt from US army south to put this whole thing into perspective the US is the number one target espionage and cyber in the world and its adversaries are using every opportunity to come after the US February Second Nineteen ninety-three the three Capitol Hill hearing room before the Senate Intelligence Committee a little more than three years after the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR or crumbled Jim Woolsey being confirmed as the CIA director issued a disturbing prophecy. Yes we have slain a large dragon but we live now now in jungle filled with a bewildering variety of poisonous snakes and in many ways the dragon was easier to keep track of. He was warning about the coming explosion. The threats facing the US he said for now. At least the cataclysmic risk full scale nuclear war has receded beyond the horizon But the risk in the shadow of a news great power competition has emerged once again and with it an espionage threat threat the world has never seen before on any given day there are two to three million people worldwide engaged in espionage Gra Simmons former former. Dia Counterintelligence branch teeth. He's not alone you know. We're talking about three or four million former. CIA covert operative Robert Bayer in their number one target. The numbers started in the United States. Clearly marked Kelton retired officer who worked clandestinely behind find the Iron Curtain while Russian intelligence is a critical threat. They are not leading this espionage. Charge of the millions science out here around the world involved in espionage happened number worked for China. Chris Simmons again and if you WanNa hear it from someone currently involved in the fight China by far I think is our preeminent counter-intelligence Threat Pete Lamp Special Agent at The Washington Field Office of the the FBI. So what exactly is everybody after. Here's Mark Kelton again. Adversary of trying to define the government secrets but it goes well beyond that. How far beyond Ondon does it go? We'll examine it in our next episode of target. USA In the meantime if you have any questions or comments about her program sent me an email email at J. Green at WTO P DOT com. That's the letter j the Color Green One word at Whiskey Tango Oscar Papa J. Jay Green at W. T. P. dot com also. Follow us on twitter at T- USA podcast. That's at Tango Uniform Sierra Alpha for podcast. Also if you're interested in more national and international security news sign up for my newsletter inside the skiff at W. T. O. P. dot com flesh. Alerts again thank you for listening. I'm Jay Jay Green and this this target in USA the nestles security podcast from an e the creators of cold case files comes your next true crime. podcast cast obsession. PD stories every week law enforcement professionals join host Tom. Morris Junior from America's most wanted and live have pd to share their experiences insights and perspectives on policing. You're not gonNA WANNA miss this. Show be sure to subscribe on podcast. One Apple Apple podcast and many other podcast APPS so you can get new episodes every week. Now Stay tuned for the latest headlines from the Associated Press.

US partner Western Hemisphere Washington US Army Cyber Center of excell FBI China Sergeant Major William Reinhar CIA America US Army army WTO Mark Kelton Chris Simmons Washington field DC reinhard Jay Jay Panama Canal
The Stand-off | S2 E8

The City

25:19 min | 1 year ago

The Stand-off | S2 E8

"Hey everyone robin here. I I really hope that you and your loved ones are staying safe and healthy and most importantly inside. I know that this is a really difficult time. And we're all looking for ways to adapt to the new reality of the corona virus for me and the rest of the city team. That means a few different things for now. We've decided to put our regular season three reporting on hold so instead we're cooking up something new something different something else that we are really excited about and it's something that we hope will help you get through this crisis. We'll have more to tell you in the coming weeks about. Were up to but in the meantime the other reason you're hearing from us today is surprise. We have a new season two bonus episode for you he. It has nothing to do with corona virus and everything to do with the story that we reported about. Strip clubs and big tack in Reno Nevada. Now if this is your first time listening to an episode of the city I recommend that you go back to the start of season two because that way this bonus episode will make a lot more sense okay thanks previously on the city. We are truly rebranding. The city and companies like Tesla Amazon and apple are all building and investing right. Here look at all the cars this is all payroll. It's all jobs. It's all service contracts. None of those visitors rate view this is all payroll. It's like a college football game. I mean you can. You can feel the economic power of payroll just by looking all the Carter. Lots of fruits we We are located at one electric avenue. We're requesting ems. And I can specifically remember waking up that morning and I hope nothing happens. We need an ambulance. We have a female employee. Dad Her she's got a hand stuck between the two modules and she's bleeding pretty badly. It's a Windy Spring Day in May Twenty nineteen twenty miles east of Reno County. Sheriff's deputy named Mitch Hammond pulls his police cruiser up to a tiny white guard. Shack the entrance to Tesla's gigafactory. He's here to meet Alberto Garcia a safety supervisor for Osha. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration Garcia speaks. I The reason why we ask if you can come over and accompany as because We'll pay obtained to perform my before inspection. Okay Kevin Garcia explains that he's trying to conduct a full safety inspection of Tesla's worksite. But for the past two months Tesla's refused to let inspectors into the building Garcia hopes. He'll have more luck with a warrant and a deputy by his side someone else pulls up in an Audi- Sedan Hammond turns to Garcia wholesome. It's Rob Paulsen. Tesla's senior manager for environmental health and safety any FLECK. Paulsen is holding his cell phone out in front of him. He's got Tesla's lawyer on the line and talk through what the next steps over Virgo. Deputy was Hamid Hamid nine despite the warrant. The sheriff's deputy. It's not clear whether Paulson is going to let them into the gigafactory and it turns out that this moment of confrontation and uncertainty is just one chapter in a much bigger story about what happens when the state and one of the state's biggest employers go head-to-head I'm Robin and from USA. Today this is the city. Okay If you're a fan of the city and you'd like to support us the best way to do it is with a subscription to USA. Today were part of USA. Today's team of investigative reporters and by subscribing. You're helping to pay for the journalism that powers our show just go to USA TODAY DOT COM and click the big Blue Button. That says subscribe now. And if you happen to be in Reno you can. Also subscribe to the Reno Gazette Journal at RJ DOT com. And thanks okay. So this season on the city. We looked at the ways. That Reno Nevada is changing. Now that it's home to Silicon Valley tech companies like Tesla. We wanted to understand the full impact. Those companies are having on Reno both good and bad and we learned that even though Tesla has created more than seven thousand jobs in the region it is also helped spark an affordable housing crisis and has a troubling history of worker injuries at its massive gigafactory. So we've wrapped our regular season but our reporter engine at Damon has continued to look into Tesla. Shoe brings us today story with some pretty shocking revelations about the way the Tesla has been operating in the state hand Ginette. Hey Robin take us back to the beginning of the story before this Osha inspector shows up at the gigafactory with a warrant. How did we get here so we actually have to go back almost two years to March twenty eighteen when in one night in two separate incidents two women had their fingers crushed in the same piece of equipment So one night two separate women to injuries in seem piece of equipment. Yeah woman master. Finger that safety manager came in and you know shutdown operations said everybody be really careful of this point right here on this machine. You can get hurt despite that warning. It happened a second time just hours later. Another worker had the tip over finger actually cut. Oh my God so engineer. How did you first hear about this story in our reporting for season two? I was aware of that incident. What I didn't know is that it set off this chain of events that resulted in this two months. Standoff between Tesla and Osha started to get anonymous phone calls saying look we know. You're looking into Tesla by you. GotTa dig deeper because right now tesla is not letting Osha onsite. You gotTA check into this. So of course. I want to figure out whether this is happening. So my first move is to pick up the phone call. Osha and say hey. I understand your inspectors. Can't get on site at Tesla gigafactory. What's going on and I got a very polite. But a big no comment so I turned to public records. Which is another reporter's tool when you get a no comment go for the documents. And what did you learn from those public records? So as a result of those pretty serious injuries Nevada. They decided to investigate they found some workplace safety violations. They Find Tusla about seven thousand dollars. And as part of this whole process Tesla and Osha entered into a settlement agreement TUSLA. They agreed to have an outside consultant. Come and look at this piece of equipment which was kind of proprietary piece of equipment that Tesla had constructed an engineered itself and as a result of that settlement. Tesla didn't have to pay. It's fine Cz. So flash forward about a year and Osha inspectors are trying to follow up on this to see if Tesla indeed hired. That consultant did indeed the report and make any changes to the equipment. That was necessary right about this same time. Some more complaints started coming in. There was a a worker who is walking down a hallway and passed out on the floor in so Osha said all right. It's time for us to follow up on this old complaint anyways to see if Tesla what needed to do. We now have this other complaint. We should go in there and do a full inspection of the entire factory to make sure that workers are safe there. So what's the difference between this new full inspection that Osha decides it needs to do and the other inspections that it had done previously. And how big a deal is it that they decide they need to do this. Full inspection at this point so there's several different ways that Osha can enter business. One of them is if there is a reported injury like an amputation or a hospitalization or a death. They'll go in and investigate that specific incident. They can also go in to investigate specific complaints so You know this incident where someone falls in the Hallway unconscious. They could go in and investigate just that complaint but those are very limited inspections and they usually contain just to the area where the incident occurred but Osha can also go into a workplace particularly when that workplace is part of an industry that has a higher than average rate of injury and battery factories. Do so because of multiple complaints. The ocean inspectors in Nevada. Said you know what we need to go in and take a look at this entire factory. So what happened after Osha asked Tesla to do a comprehensive inspection of the gigafactory Tesla said look? Oj You can come in and you can investigate these these specific complaints. You can confine your inspection to the area of the complaint. You can talk to those employees but we are not opening up our factory doors for a full comprehensive inspection of our plant We just don't think that you have the legal flooding in to do that. Osha reasserted itself says. Look you have all these complaints rolling in that allows us to request comprehensive inspection and they went back and forth for a couple months. You Know Osha did. Its best to try and negotiate. Its way into the factory. Tesla kept pushing back and finally about two months after this all started Osha had enough and they went to a judge and they laid out their case. Look we've not done a comprehensive inspection. They're part of an industry that has a higher than average injury rate. Will you give Us Award? And the judge agreed and signed a warrant. Wow and I don't know if you know the answer to this. But how typical is it for Osha to have to seek a warrant in order to be able to do one of these comprehensive inspections? I talked to the ocean. Specter's about this and they say you know it happens from time to time you know. There's businesses in the community. Who Pretty much will only let inspectors and if they have a warrant Most don't put them through that entire process but they do have a process under state law. It's called the compulsory process. Where they're able to seek judicial review and get award and they do have to use it from time to time so that brings us back to that very windy day and May that we heard at the top of that episode. What happens next after the break? Hey everyone while we're taking a break here. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded to a recent call for story ideas we have heard from so many of you about what's happening in your cities and we're taking some time right now to go through all of your ideas and figure out where we want to go next. If you have an idea of something you think we should cover about some big change. Reshaping your city or about somebody powerful doing something shady. It's not too late to send that idea our way you can write us at Info at the city podcast dot com or call us and leave a message at three one two three two one seven seven two two. That's three one two three two one seven seven two two and thanks. Okay so engine where we left off. We've got the Osha Safety Manager and a Story County. Deputy showing up a tesla at gigafactory warrant in hand to do this inspection. Take us through. What happens after that? You have Osias Safety Manager. Alberto Garcia on scene with the WARRENTON. His hand you have story county. Deputy Mitch Hammond to help enforce that warrant and does at the scene a little bit. They're only allowed as far as the guard shack and the guard shack is about a mile down the road from the factory. So you can kind of picture there on kind of this busy. Roadway with traffic coming in and out of the factory Surrounded by sagebrush covered hills and this giant buildings looming in the background. Tesla's safety manager pulls up on scene is names Rob Paulsen. And they don't know whether they're gonNa get an are not rob. Paulsen starts looking through the warrant. Who's looking at the date? He's reading a he sees. You know the judges signed it and and he's asking the Lur talk talk through. What next steps over? Berto Deputy Chairman Hamid Nine men in my mind and you hear the lawyer on the phone. Say Justice five to ten minutes to kind of talk about this And decide what to do in the meantime story county. Deputy Hammond is kind of wondering. What the heck do I do if this giant company decides to reject this warrant or deny these safety inspectors entry? So Deputy Hammond starts getting on the phone to his bosses. Finally gets a hold of The district attorney and explain the situation. I'm here with Osha. At Tesla. Tesla has won the particulars to what exhibits. They're here to chase down and expect you know. In most cases if somebody rejects denies entry to law enforcement with a warrant. They go to jail. They have to do it or its conduct the court right that means then that means the standing here it gets taken away. He's representing Tesla. And that's why because it's kind of tricky. The district attorney's will hang on. You know. Let me think about this. Okay right back. In the meantime Rob Paulsen comes back. Starts asking some more questions of Osha you know? What's the basis of this warrant? What are you ask him to do? And Alberto Garcia with Shas like look it's up to you. We have this warrant. We have law enforcement here It's up to you on how to proceed ultimately the DA gets back to the deputy says. We're not taking anybody to jail here. If they deny entry you gotta go back to the judge and ask him to enforce this and Finally after lots of discussion. Tesla's as you know what you'RE NOT COMING ONSITE. We're denying entry all right. Let the judge make the next decision and this is what really shocked me when I was going through these records not only had tesla for months told Osha who has the authority under the Federal Government to inspect workplaces. Not only did Tesla say no. You can't come in then. Osha shows up with a warrant and a deputy and they still say no. They still say no. You're not coming into this factory Not really that absolutely surprised. Me As you share the deputies. Say on the tape. They didn't want to get into tricky water. And complicate things by taking a tesla employees to jail and you can hear the frustration in the deputies voice elsewhere in this girl would go to jail while okay so what happens after Osha goes back to the judge reports all this. What is the judge do? Well Ocean never got a chance to go back to the judge. After this entire thing happened the day tesla started to pull some political strings. They called One of the governor's cabinet members the head of the Department of Business and industry which oversees Osha and said look. We need a meeting that cabinet member. Michael Brown agrees says yeah. Let's all get in a room. So Michael Brown. The head of the department gets the head of the. Division that oversees Osha. You can see the state bureaucracy here and they also call it. The elected attorney general of Nevada whose lawyers for his office represent the department in this dispute. And they say you know. Let's have a meeting so the day. After a unsuccessfully tried to serve the warrant they all gather in a room at the Nevada attorney. General's Office Attorney General Iran. Ford is there himself for the beginning of the meeting and they try to hammer out an agreement where Tesla will allow Osha to inspect certain areas of the factory not all of the areas and because they're allowing into these certain areas they want should go back to the judge and say Yeah Look Tesla Lettuce in all's good so this meeting and these negotiations that Tesla brokered with Osha? Is that kind of thing common? And is that legal for Tesla? Just say you know. We'll give you access to this stuff over here but not as others over here. I talked to the head of the division of industrial relations. Ray fiero and I asked him that question and he said in his experience. It was an unprecedented meeting. And even as the higher ups in state government are Directing Oceans. Specter's to agree to this the district manager of Northern Nevada. Wrote in an email. Look I will do what you tell me to do. But it's in the best interest of the workers and their safety if we go back to the judge right now and have them enforced this warrant but that never happened. How did Tesla justify its handling of the situation? You know I would really like to hear. Tesla's sight of this but they opted to completely ignore my request for comment. I sent emails. I sent text messages. I left voicemails and they did not even acknowledge receiving my requests. So even before you reported the story you had already done a lot of work about the power. That Tesla wielded in Nevada. What do you feel like? You're taking away from this story. What do you feel like you've learned? That's new or surprising about the relationship. And the dynamic between Tesla and the state you know in season two are reporting really focused on this question of of Nevada's decision to recruit Tesla to the state almost at all costs they offered this huge tax incentive package and there wasn't a lot of thought put into what are the unintended consequences. There's a lot of benefits. But what could be some of the downsides and how do we try and address those maybe ahead of time and so one of those? I think unintended consequences of a factory of the size to to the state. Is that safety record? You have thousands and thousands of people working there. And how does the state keep them safe? And I think that's Osha. Inspectors are really grappling with. They still say look we. We need to get a better idea of what's happening inside this factory and really make sure that the workers there are safe and and they don't feel like they've been able to do that yet as you and. I are speaking now. Moesha's still has not done a comprehensive inspection of the factory Internet. Thank you. You're welcome in early. March Tesla announced that it would start scouting locations for a new factory somewhere in the US. A place to build its futuristic cyber truck with that was before the corona virus officially became a pandemic CEO Elon. Musk was criticized. For initially downplaying. The disease and for keeping the California gigafactory open even after local officials or a lockdown. Tesla has since suspended operations at its Fremont plant and has offered to make ventilators for hospitals in short supply. The company recently said it would drastically reduce the people working in its Nevada plant but hasn't yet closed at home the city as a production of USA Today and is distributed in partnership. With wonder you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts. Spotify or ever listening right now if you liked the show please rate and review us and be sure to tell your friends about us. Our Bonus episode today was reported and produced by Damon meal. Stanley killer making Robin Aamer. Our editors are amy pile and Matt. Doig original music and mixing is by. Hannah's Brown legal review by Tom. Curley editorial oversight by Brian Dugan and Chris Davis I'm Robin Hammer. You can find us on facebook twitter and Instagram at city pod or visit our website. That's the city. Podcast DOT COM a team.

Tesla Osha Tesla Nevada Tesla Amazon Tesla gigafactory Deputy Hammond Osha Alberto Garcia Rob Paulsen robin Reno Nevada Osha Safety Manager Reno Reno Gazette Journal apple reporter Reno County Berto Deputy Chairman Hamid Ni Damon
Target USA  Episode 190 | The Fog of Espionage Part 3: A day in the life of a spy

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

30:01 min | 1 year ago

Target USA Episode 190 | The Fog of Espionage Part 3: A day in the life of a spy

"Previously on target USA an explosion of spies three or four million happened number worked for China unprecedented rush could actively to collect information about denied it states more than one hundred countries working here the big problem American agents abroad the National Security podcast from WTO in Washington DC this is target USA act his identity we've been told that protection is still necessary because he's involved in other unrelated work his story about I the tactics. US agents secrets you've never heard now from podcast one coming up in this episode leaning over the car looking at me with binoculars a CIA case officer overseas on the verge of getting caught all the things he wanted to know but never heard about the life of an American agent overseas coming up on this edition of Target USA on this program we investigate the threats the people behind them the agencies fighting them and the impact on you this is target Russia could render huge arm to this country North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States dangerous terrorist DC IS USA the national security podcast I'm Jay Jay Green what's it really like to be a spine daily preparation is one of the few true glimpses you'll get from anyone working undercover for the US government has he pointed James Bond is not the answer what James Bond did nothing compared to what the real spies to Keith Melton aboard heatedly mentioned is someplace they would like to see an attack cyber criminals successfully America as a target on its back and that's the voice of a man we only know as Hammer L. newry he was undercover for the FBI deep inside Isis and Al Qaeda in pretty soon lots of other of his friends appeared and started following in what turned out to be something of chase there were more than a dozen people is traveling covertly meaning in alias so I would shower could on Tamara's clothes but on his watch take his wallet driver's car IMP- location and I would have a conversation with myself as I mentioned that was two years ago his voice was changed to last four minutes this is what a day in the life of a real spy is like wake up in the morning when it was time to go operational and I knew I knew I was operational I was carrying package that if they'd detained me could have resulted in the compromise death arrest of the agent long walk and I'll never forget this as I emerged from a tree line I looked up much of my right and saw car in a parking lot maybe two hundred meters away and a guy member of the international spy museum and intelligence historian and a specialist in clandestine technology and I often say that in the real world James Bond and he's describing what it was like to assume what's known as his legend more commonly called an alias Dr and of target USA Park My car thinking that there was no one with me and taking the package left to walk to the side it was going to be Tom and you may already know being a spine out here on the streets is a complex mysterious existence requiring constant daily preparation anybody walking by me probably thought I was crazy person because I'm speaking out loud reciting my identity fire's my mother's maiden name my business locations everything about that individual it's I call that flipping the switch become that person I turn the key to his car and drive to the airport and I'm never anything but AH case officers who work overseas undercover like Kelsen did we spoke with him about numerous issues related to espionage and spying hands of men and women working undercover for the US intelligence community adds up to a very stressful life but it's particularly stressful for C. Fat Person Whatever alias or legend I'm doing that's who I am until I write back home all of what you just heard the day today armaments but in a nonthreatening relatively non threatening environment where you're using your own name living and working living and working undercover as particularly the stress well let me just say at the outset that even relatively benign environments and there there really are no truly benign and discussed publicly but interestingly target USA discovered several training films put together by the CIA's predecessor the office of the painting a cover as you have learned and will learn from our discussion with Kelton is a complicated process very little detail about how this happens is I've narrowed it down to two either a government inspector or a cheap mechanic government inspector Kelton says no matter how you come at it Ndiaye your secret shop which are which are really doing your undercover work long hours or physically taxing that sleep is almost always at tame crossing borders can be extremely stressful now being challenged by people on the street can also be very very stressful and having someone premium and that's of course gender strain then as a strain of maintaining and supporting a cover legend in interaction with the outside world that's people beyond those who have a strict need to know about what you're doing in the intelligence community speak of need to know and those people relatively few the process of building in Maine officer is glamorous it's not and there is an element of fear but while that fear is palpable it's a different kind of fear fear can be a job description that doesn't convey fully what you're doing or it can be totally deceptive as to what you're what you're doing services that shed some light yes to obtain intelligence on Asian production and the position of vital targets in the capital district of enemy area working undercover is a prickly business that's you know if you're working in true name but undercover if you're working in an alias that its using to facilitate your activities so I see could you take us through a stressful scenario at some stage in one day correct you're to set up an intelligence organization which will gather information for an S. O. Operation You said on your cover not definitely plays a factor but in my experience is not really physical fear yes there are times when you're physically afraid but relatively few and very few actually walk up to you who knows you another name on I know from experience who certainly stressful in truly hostile environment that's one where the adversaries load the crucial but sometimes even the best planning is not enough during the Cold War I can recall operation where I was tasked to put down Alan tried security even if you're in your own name and your undercover it's difficult it often necessitates doing two jobs with the one that you want the public to see and the greatest fear I ever felt was fear of failure especially fear I might let my organization country down a war that I might make a mistake and identity that one assumes to the outside world in order to protect what one is really doing so you know you're working undercover in espionage according to Kelton and numerous other intelligence officials and former case officers that I've spoken to it might seem as though the work of a spy or a case flush out surveillance and it can take hours I was out for an entire day ensuring wasn't being followed before I generally try to present the outside world with one view as to who you are and what you are and I use that cover corners we work with very very seriously and do everything we can to protect them well that's quite a significant burden to carry and let me just stem Mark Celtic who spent thirty four years at the CIA says an operation like this can take weeks maybe even months to plan the problems that would lead to the arrest or or death of the agents with whom I was working and in intelligence particularly CIA we take our responsibility to those deploying a considerable resources to identify you and which for what you really are and what you're really doing to track your activities distress can be very high learned through the experience of others right by curiously virtually through the experience of others and knowledge of the adversary is of course APPs was that there were people observing my activities and the activities of others at the embassy where I was working on the day of the operation there was one loose end to take up package foreign agent at package containing instructions espionage material money for agent coroner working with us nerves are always on edge when you're when you're operational when you're actually work doing your job try not to show it of course because then it gives away what you're doing and officers employ techniques in the parlance of espionage tradecraft to try to protect both their true identities and the world you're not only to exist and operate in an area but to facilitate track for instance diplomatic cover right you want it you wanna use that decided to beat a retreat and returned back to the embassy with the package Kelvin makes it sound easy and reality it was anything but hero of the intelligence world there's something called an Sdr a surveillance detection run it's designed to erode that they're really doing gotta stay on the operational activities or carrying out yonder the adversary at the same time trying to divine exactly what you're doing and who you are over the next sixty minutes he briskly walked ducked dodged bobbed and weaved through the streets of a city that more than thirty years later because if he was someone was probably going to die that more than thirty years later is still the case for USA it'd be two hundred meters away and a guy leaning over the car looking at me with binoculars and pretty soon lots of other of his friends appeared and started following me in what turned out to be something of a chase there were more than a dozen people after Kelton today new I was operational I was carrying uh drill down a little bit further just briefly what is for those who don't know a cover legend well cover legend is a Julia career when you were operational sure you know in operations really the only thing you can control his preparation you know once you start an were going to park my car my car was observed and then the surveillance was put on me at the very end and those things can happen the package was four parked my car thinking that there was no one with me and taking the package left to walk having my car towards the direction I was going to put down the package that location had been scoped out long before and was known to Kelton his team and the operative of engaging in that kind of work on the streets in a hostile country with so much at stake there is a concern about making a mistake he's still not able to name because it's classified trying to elude the men on his heels all the lyles stuck in his head was the mantra he could not be called juice working abroad trying to do the business of the US all the while trying to save their own skin and in the process package that if they'd detained me could have resulted in the compromise death the rest of the agent and I quickly was it a mistake well it certainly I didn't know that they were there And you all you always learn most from the states but for me the the hard war can you speak again to the importance of having an airtight legend you talked a little bit earlier about that but can you speak to lesson learned in fact we learned later that I was not being followed what happened was was driving back to the place I looked up and saw a guy looking with binoculars on Jayjay green joined for the fog of espionage the enemies defector you able to say what region you were at the time while I was in the communist East at the time I'm like I can't say exactly where I was but I was in the communist east the news in gold back to the side it was going to be a long block and I'll never forget this as I urged from a tree lined I looked to my right and saw a car in a parking lot to to catch you scary mum up scary for the most part for what might have happened to the agent if the operation uncompromising you really have to trust in your planning and preparation that operation I sort of combined with your experience both that you that experience that you've garnered on your own and that that tippety ruled anything can happen in usually does so at in once you step off in an operation operational activity I uni but those kind of unexpected events are the kinds of things you learn a lot of lessons from and you learn great respect for the adversaries that are trying A. B. Some seeming to be who won claims to be claimed to be as crucial protecting the work of an intelligence officer and particularly the agents that is the forest the importance of having one of those airtight legend. Yeah you know the novelist stuff frederick foresight said in one of his books a man ought to be we claims the inconsistency in that cover story cover legend will lead to increased scrutiny that being directed the officer by that counterintelligence service the cards birth certificates school records military files for ranks or something of that sort travel documents sometimes passports visas plane tickets did you find yourself practicing legend you know for instance reciting your identifiers or things like that Oh yeah it's a question of memorization you divulge more and more about yourself but it has to be consistent all this is a you know sort of painstaking work read as a normal person that you have to produce your identity or your asked about who you are that identity has to be consistent and your story has to be consistent over the lead together under new requires a lot of hard work but it's necessary to the success and security of inoperational activity over time and space after you have to be able to build on the identity because people in normal life their their their identity gains over time you being something that looks it looks plausible to the outside then the officer must be given that he's going to be given the documents that support that identity complex undertaking I you have to put together plausible I identity s to be created for the officer plausible identity up the rhymes or things that you could that would remind you of things the name that you were using another things you try try as much as with with all the risks that really entails for that officer and ultimately for the agent so creating and maintaining cover legend that is is is really that knowledge from detection by four counterintelligence service a hostile counterintelligence service trying to track your activities and at the end identify that agent any earliest site entity that any must be defended to to hostile or innocent interrogation that could slip up could lead to suspicion for instance at border crossings the most obvious instance but any end daily interaction on the street you'd think of how many times you're walking around on the you're carrying a passport or something like that you'd have to know exactly what the details were an or any other kind of identity because that's the most obvious again something stories all the time but you know it's a very real concern where somebody has document with your name on it your birthday and all the rest of that better not give the wrong birthday when they ask you what your birthday so you better be studying those things and it's and it's a lot more than that but that's the most obvious example how how did you practice did you did you do at home and and put yourself in the life of that person you're supposed to be when you're working thanks a lot of study greg what what do foreign connor the like that support that legend that alias and finally the officer asked to learn and developed the back yourself or did you go out or do what was you know just like how did you do that yet to a safe place you in your head I mean you know just over and over making intelligence agents look for when they're trying to expose a spy and I'm getting I'm what I'm getting at is what were you up against when when when looking back at how foreign counterintelligence tried to get after you well so like the first thing is a little bit about terminology so you know a spy the works out the case officer works a we call ourselves case officers other terminology is used operations officer handler handler the person almost invariably a foreigner with whom a case officer as we call ourselves when whom case officer impartial of protecting that spine but much more difficult of course in the digital age background information can be retrieved trying to get to so the the intelligence officer becomes the medium of getting to that spot so when you're when the when you're doing that trying to identify you as a means to get to that spy that spy is really the objective right there that is the person that is doing them the most damage that's who the added course that kind of situation protecting your cover is absolutely crucial riot you're actually handling a spy protecting your cover is it is is someone who actually directs the spy your spy your his handler so foreign counterintelligence personnel of course not easily checked by virtually anyone and that makes it very very difficult and that can be done on in real time digital trail facebook linked in the like younger people in particular of course had considerable social media profiles here's a perfect example eligible officer in researching the researching a suspect intelligence officer and then in tracking that officer in addition to that their social media all of what Kelton is talking about taken from US series city of Secrets L. Leaves who have credit card transactions car rentals Internet searches purchases all of that can greatly assist hostile connor until the streets there in your inbox looking for people with classified and sensitive information social media has made it easier for them to find Brian Dugan assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence at the Washington Field Office of the FBI Lincoln is one example people put out there what they did in a prior life time or another and who's most likely to be recruited somebody who gets stuck with high bills who has a lifestyle they can't sustain and then you combine and here's the problem to any good intelligence service those are going to be clues to find people that used to have a government job or access to clear and set one you were happy with your work with the work yes how the money your resume on foreign spies are not just walking as well hello jj how are you today. I want to be your friend. There are sophisticated organizations out there that can figure out how to contact you sometimes leaving computerized yeah with somebody who does not believe their careers on the right way maybe they feel like they've been undervalued in the system Philip mudd former deputy director of the National Security Division at the FBI used voice messages Massachusetts Fall for espionage has not been confined to human spying in two thousand fifteen Chinese intelligence cyber operator stole sensitive personnel information from the Office of Personnel Management PM so here's the simple reality not only are there humans trying to recruit Americans to become is but there are technological components and people working remotely as was simulated in this FBI video called company man in China I so as a record number of American citizens retire their options are wide open and spies know that the human ones and the artificial ones I think you'd be laughing when you hear the salary no there's no way that I can move to China vacation biometrics is another problem. Biometric spacial recognition technology and such things an airport security personnel virtually instant recall so if an undercover officers forged passports and then there's the creation of large databases by government and international organizations stat aggregation again as part of instantaneous retrieval but those databases can draw on information from across the government as well as international organizations and really complicated this business of getting around and doing your job and biometric passports as well should be included in that Oh can present a real difficulty working particularly you're in another name Iris scanners at airports for crossings. The really that can really make it difficult when you're trying to maintain a inconspicuous profile gives border guards on the light walk Mr Floor this is Jerry fielding with People Power Executive Placement Service Out of York okay I was just calling to see if move some of the protection of an alias identity can afford and places but at the same time it it simplifies lying don't change what changes is the technology that enable them to take place you won't secret information without the other guys knowing they've lost it but me as most overwhelming is the willingness to destroy their we conclude the third installment of our series the fog of espionage here's what's coming up in the fourth and final episode the Goals City now you've got to rely on extensive training and preparation instead of trying to work with a screen of alias to work behind and it linked and they are both subject targets from foreign intelligence okay is there anything else you want to add that I haven't asked you entire family that's coming up in our next episode in the meantime thank you as always for joining us and allowing us to spend some time with you oh P dot com that's the letter j the Color Green one word at Whiskey Tango Oscar Papa Dot Com that's J. Green I'm deeply grateful for that if you have any questions or comments about the program send me an email at J. Green at wt American the American government executes national security but the but national security is really built on American economic power and they are intrinsically it's of course adversary of trying to divine government secrets but it goes well beyond that goes to industrial and trade secrets you know when you think about it it's Frequently easiest and best resort the oldest former espionage that's working Yeltsin simplest form that's working and true name appeases pass muster with in the past with someone at an airport or order there were good to go now have to worry about the what's quits contained in those databases and that has to be consistent throughout so that's really hard to do can you talk a little more about working undercover can help make things better for the show and you as a listener just go to podcast one dot com slash survey and everything will be right there for you that's minutes and if you're one of the first people to do it podcast one will make it worth your time literally we need you to complete a short survey because the information you give us through some questions and potentially make some money along the way and thank you for being a dedicated listener now stay tuned for the

USA China officer FBI CIA WTO Target USA Washington American government Iris Jerry fielding Mr Floor Massachusetts York Philip mudd J. Green Office of Personnel Management Executive appeases deputy director
Target USA -- Episode 203: The Best of 2019

Target USA Podcast by WTOP

29:23 min | 1 year ago

Target USA -- Episode 203: The Best of 2019

"From podcast one coming up in this episode of target. USA This is the best of target USA. Say Two thousand nine hundred a look back episode one hundred ninety an explosion of spies three or four million half numbers work for China. Unprecedented activity to collect. Information Ball denied it states more than one hundred countries working here big problem American agents abroad. I looked up and saw guy looking at me with binoculars. I'm Jay Jay Green. Join me for the fog of espionage. The enemies defectors the tactics U. S. agents fee quits. You've never heard coming up on this edition of target. USA The national security podcast now from WTO in Washington DC this is target USA. Russia could render huge arm to this country North Korea's secret missile capable of reaching the whole of the United States dangerous terrorist. DC is repeatedly mentioned. Is someplace they would like to see an attack. Cyber criminals successfully America as a target on its back and on this program. We investigate the threats. The people behind them the agencies fighting them and the impact on you this is target in the national security podcast. I'm Jay Jay Green. What's it really like to be a spy? Uh James Bond is not the answer. What James Bond did nothing compared to? WHAT THE REAL SPIES H? Keith Melton. A board board member at the international spy museum and Intelligence Historian and a specialist in clandestine technology. And I often say that in the real world James Bond wouldn't last four minutes. This is what a day in the life of a real spy is like I'd wake up in the morning when it was time to go operational and I knew who else traveling covertly meaning alias. So I would. Shower could on Tamara's clothes but on his watch take his wallet driver's Car Four. That's the voice of a man we only know as Tanner L. Newry he was undercover for the FBI. Deep Inside Isis and Al Kaieda and he's describing what it was like to assume what's known as his legend more commonly called an alias. I tried to Location and I would have a conversation with myself as I mentioned that was two years ago. His voice was changed to protect his identity. We've been told that protection is still necessary. Because he's involved in other unrelated work. His story about about daily preparation is one of the few true glimpses you'll get from anyone working undercover for the. US government has he pointed pointed out and you may already know being a spy out here on. The streets is a complex mysterious existence requiring constant daily preparation. Anybody walking by me probably thought I was crazy person. Because I'm speaking out loud. Reciting my identifiers identify. Here's my mother's maiden name. My business locations Everything about that individual. It's I call that flipping the switch which become that person. I turned the key to his car and drive to the airport. And I'm never anything the buck that person. Whatever alias Legend? I'm doing that's who I am until I write back home. All of what you just heard the day today. demands of men and women working undercover for the. US intelligence community adds up to a very stressful life but it's particularly stressful for the CIA case officers who work overseas undercover like Kelton. Did we spoke with him about numerous issues related to espionage and spying thank particularly the stress. Well let me just say at the outset that even in relatively benign environments and there there really are no truly benign line and bar moments But in a nonthreatening relatively nonthreatening environment where using your own name and living and working living and working undercover. There's a challenge tried security even if you're in your own name and your undercover. It's difficult. It often necessitates doing two jobs with the one that you want the public to see and and Your secret job which which really doing your undercover work long hours or physically taxing That sleep is almost always. Is that a premium. And that's of course gender strain then as the strain of maintaining and supporting a cover legend in interaction with the outside world. That's up people beyond those who have a strict need to know about what you're doing in the intelligence can we speak of need to know And those people be relatively few the process of building and maintaining a cover as you have learned and we'll learn from our discussion with Kelton is a complicated process very little detail about how this happens. This is discussed publicly but interestingly target. USA discovered several training films put together by the CIA. As predecessor the office of of strategic services that shed some light yes to obtain intelligence on Asian production and the position of vital targets in the capital district of enemy area correct. You're to set up an intelligence organization which will gather information for an S. O.. Operation you said on your cover not definitely. I've narrowed it down to two either a government inspector for the cheap mechanic government. Inspector Kelton says no matter how you come at it. Working undercover is a prickly business. That's you know if you're working in true name but undercover if you're working in an alias that it's using a false name. Crossing borders can be extremely stressful now. Being challenged by people on the street can also be very very stressful. And having someone walk up to you who knows you in another name on. I know from experience certainly stressful in truly hostile environment. That's one where the adversary sorry is. Deploying a considerable resources to identify you and which are for what you really are and what you're really doing to track your activities. The stress can be very high Nerves are always on edge when you're when you're operational when you're actually work doing your job you're trying not to show it of course because then it gives away what you're doing doing And officers employ techniques in the parlance of espionage tradecraft to try to protect both their true identities and the worked there really doing GotTa stay on. The operational activities are carrying out yet. You end the adversary at the same time is trying to divine exactly what you're doing and who you are. According to Kelton and numerous other intelligence officials and former case officers that I've spoken to it might seem as though the work of a spy or a case. Ace Officer is glamorous. It's not and there is an element of fear but while that fear is palpable. It's a different kind of fear. Fear plays a factor but in my experience. Not really physical fear Yes there were times when you're physically afraid but they're relatively few and very few actually. The greatest fear I ever felt was fear failure Especially fear I might let my Organization country down a war that I might make a mistake mistake. That would lead to the arrest or or death of the agents with whom I was working And in intelligence particularly at CIA we take our responsibility to those foreigners. We work with very very seriously and do everything we can to protect them. Well that's quite a significant Burden to carry and Let me just stem. Um maybe drill down a little bit further just briefly. What is for those who don't know a cover? Legend while cover. Legend is a a- An identity that one assumes to the outside world in order to protect one is really doing so. You're working undercover and in espionage. I it can be a job description. That doesn't Convey fully what you're doing or it can be totally deceptive as to what you're what you're doing doing a generally you try to present the outside world with one view as to who you are and what you are and I use that to cover not only to exist and operate in an area but of acilitator activities for instance diplomatic cover right. You WanNa you WANNA use that. Ah To facilitate your activities so I see. Could you take us through a stressful scenario at some stage in one day Julianne Career when you were operational sure In operations really the only thing you can control as preparation you know once you start an activity A rule that anything can happen in usually does So in once you step up on an operation operational activity really have to trust in your planning and preparation for that operation. I started combined with your experience. Both that experience. That you've garnered on your own and that that that you've learned through the experience of others right. Brigham vicariously virtually through the experience of others and knowledge of the adversary is of course absolutely crucial but sometimes even the best planning is not enough during the cold. War Can recall an operation where I was tasked to put down a drop. A package for agent package containing instructions espionage material money for an agent coroner working with US Mark Celtic who spent thirty four years at the CIA says an operation like this can take weeks. Maybe even months to plan the problem problem was that there were people observing my activities and the activities of others at the embassy where I was working on the day of the operation. There was one loose end to take take care of the intelligence world. There's something called an Sdr a surveillance detection run. It's designed to erode or flush out surveillance and it can take hours. I was out for an entire day ensuring wasn't being followed before we're driving in my car towards the direction that I was going to put down the package that location had been scoped out long before and was known to Kelton his team. And the operative supportive. The package was four parked. My car thinking that there was no one with me and taking the package left to walk. Walk to the side and it was going to be a long walk. And I'll never forget this as Burj from a tree lined. I looked up to my right and saw car in a parking unlock. Maybe two hundred meters away and a guy leaning over the car looking at me with binoculars and pretty soon lots of other of his friends appeared appeared and started following in what turned out to be something of a chase. There were more than a dozen people after Kelton today new I was operational. I was carrying bringing package that if they'd detained me could have resulted in the compromise. Death the rest of the agent and I quickly clearly decided to beat a retreat and returned back to the embassy with the package. Celtics makes it sound easy in reality. It was anything but over the next sixty minutes. He briskly walked ducked dodged and weaved through the streets of a city that more than thirty years. Later he's still not able to name because it's classified trying to elude the men on his heels. All the LYLES stuck. His head was the mantra he could not be caught. Doc because if he was someone was probably going to die that more than thirty years later is still the case for US S.. Agents working abroad trying to do the business in the US all the while trying to save their own skin and in the process Of engaging in that kind of work on the streets in a hostile country with so much at stake there is a concern about making a mistake. Was it a mistake. Well certainly. I didn't know that they were there. and you all you learn most from the states but for me the the was a hard lesson learned in fact we learned later that I was not being followed. What happened was I was driving back to The a place where I was going to park my car my car was observed. And then the Surveillance was put on me at the very end and those things can happen anti union but those kind of Unexpected events are the kinds of things that you learn a lot of lessons from and you learn great respect for the adversaries that are trying trying to to catch you. Scary scary for the most part for what might have happened to. The agent is the operation of uncompromising. Are you able to say what region you're in at the time while I was in The communist East at the time. I'm like I can't say exactly where I was but I was in the communist east. Yeah and it was in Nicole. Can you speak again to the importance of having an airtight legend. You talked a little bit earlier about that. But can you speak into the importance of having one of those airtight legend. Yeah you know the novelist Frederick. foresights said a in one of his books a man ought to be. We claims seems to be some seeming to be one claims to be claimed to be as crucial protecting the work of an intelligence officer. And particularly the the agents that is the foreign born spies If you will work with us you don't WanNa be detected. You're trying to detect that knowledge or protect that knowledge from detection by a foreign counterintelligence service a hostile connor intelligence service trying to track your activities and and at the end. Identify that agent any inconsistency in that cover story cover legend will lead to increased scrutiny that being directed the officer by that Counterintelligence Service With with all the risks that really entails for that officer end ultimately for the agent so creating and maintaining cover legend that is is really really complex undertaking. I you have to Put together a plausible Identity S to be created for the officer that plausible identity. Not being something that looks or it looks plausible to the outside. Then the officer must be given that he's going to begin the documents that support that identity. ID I D cards. Birth certificates school records military files for ranks or something of that sort travel documents. Sometimes passports visas plane tickets. Goodson the like that Support that legend that alias and finally the officer has to learn and develop the Elliott site entity that must be able to defend it to hostile or innocent interrogation that could slip up could lead to suspicion mission for instance at border crossings. The most obvious instance but any daily interaction on the street you think of how many times you're walking around on the street as a normal person that you have to produce your identity or your asked about who you are that identity has to be consistent and your story to be consistent over over over time and space and it after you got to be able to build on the identity because people in normal life their their their identity Gains over time. You you you divulge more and more about yourself but it has to be consistent All of this is a you know sort of painstaking work putting all that together under new yet. requires a lot of hard work. But it's necessary to the success send security of inoperational activity mark. Did you find yourself practicing legend You know for instance Reciting your identifiers or things like that. Oh Yeah it's a question of memorization you were carrying a passport or something like that. You'd have to know exactly what the details were an or any other kind of identity You know because that's the most obvious again. Can you see all the time. But it's a very real concern where somebody as a document with your name on it your birthday and all the rest of that went better not give the wrong birthday they ask you. You know what's your birthday so you better be studying those things and it's it's a lot more than that but that's the most obvious example. How did you practice did you? Did you do at home Ullman by yourself or did you go out or what was you know. Just how did you do that yet. Do it a safe place to it in your head. I mean you know just over and over making making up rhymes or things that you would remind you of things the name that you were using another things you try. Try as much because you can't put yourself in the life of that person you're supposed to be when you're working a Lotta Study Greg. What What do foreign counterintelligence counter-intelligence agents for when they're trying to expose a spy and getting an what I'm getting at is what were you up against when when when looking back at how? Oh foreign counterintelligence tried to get after you. Well so let let the first thing is a little bit about terminology. So you know spies a the person Almost invariably a foreigner with whom case officers we call ourselves when whom case officer Sir Works The case officer works a we call ourselves. Case officers. Other terminology is used operations officer handler. Handler uh-huh is is someone who actually directs the spy your spy your handler So foreign counterintelligence personnel of course Are Trying to identify you as a means to get to that spy that spy is really the objective right there. That is the person that is doing them the most damage that's who they're trying to get to the intelligence officer becomes the medium of getting to that spot. So when you when when you're doing doing that of course that kind of situation protecting your cover is absolutely crucial right. If you're actually handling spy protecting your cover is is part and parcel of protecting that spine But much more difficult of course in the digital age Background information can be retrieved intrigued in easily checked by a virtually anyone and that makes it a very very difficult and that can be done on in real time digital trail l.. We all leave sort of credit card. Transactions car rentals Internet searches purchases. All that can greatly assist hostile counterintelligence intelligence officer in researching the researching a suspect intelligence officer and then in tracking that officer. In addition to that there's social media facebook linked in the light younger people. In particular of course had considerable social media. Profiles here is a perfect example. Example of what Kelton is talking about taken from US series city of secrets. Robert Robert Moore Mr Moore feeling with People Power Executive Placement Service Out of York. Okay I was just calling to see if you're happy with your work with the work. Yes well how about the money. I found your resume on foreign. Spies are not just walking walking the streets there in your inbox looking for people with classified and sensitive information. Social Media has made it easier for them to find Brian Dugan assistant assistant special agent in charge of counterintelligence at the Washington field office of the FBI. Lincoln is one example. People put out there what they did in a prior life. And here's the problem. Any good intelligence service. Those are going to be clues to find people that used to have a government job or access to clearance at at one time or another. and WHO's most likely to be recruited somebody who gets stuck with high bills who has a lifestyle. They can't sustain and then you combine combine that with somebody who does not believe their careers on the right way. Maybe they feel like they've been undervalued. Didn't system Philip mudd former deputy director of the National Security Division at the FBI so as a record number of American citizens retire their options are wide open and spies know that the human ones and the artificial ones as well hello jj how are you today. I want to be your friend. There are sophisticated organizations out there that can figure out how to contact you sometimes leaving computerized derived voice messages Massachusetts. Some fall for espionage has not confined to human spying in twenty fifteen Chinese intelligence cyber operator brighter stole sensitive personnel information from the Office of Personnel Management Opium. So here's the simple reality not only. Are there humans trying to recruit Americans to become despise but there are technological components and people working remotely as was simulated in this. FBI video called company man. China's I think you'd be laughing when you hear the salary. There's no way that I can move to China vacation. Jane biometrics is another problem. Biometrics facial recognition technology and such things can present a real difficulty for working particularly. You're in another name Iris scanners at airports for crossings The Really League really complicated. This business of getting around and doing your job and biometric passports as well should be included and then there's the creation of large databases by government and international organization stat aggregation again as part of instantaneous Danish retrieval but those databases can draw on information from across the government as well as international organizations And that can really make it difficult. When you're trying to maintain a inconspicuous profile gives border guards on the like like an airport security personnel virtually instant recall so if an undercover officers of forged passport Ford visas pass muster with In the past with someone at an airport or border there were good to go now. Now you have to worry about what's quits contained in those databases and that has to be consistent throughout so that's really hard to do. Can you talk a little more about working undercover as yourself or someone else so I given you know so. The difficulty of talked a little bit about working on undercover in in in the Internet. Age it's Frequently easiest invest resort the oldest form of espionage. That's working him Yeltsin simplest form. That's working in true name. The officer doesn't have to create a legend They just live their life. Ask themselves of course that has additional challenges. I in you know you you. Oh you remove some of the protection of an alias. Identity can afford in places But at the same time it It it simplifies stinks In that you don't have to recall false legend and build a false a false cover legendary will like many things. It's sort of complex in its simplicity. Simplicity now you've got to rely on extensive training and preparation instead of trying to work with a screen of an alias to work behind and and The highest highest professional disciplined to carry out your operation successfully But if that's what it takes that's what we do. I suppose my final question and then kind of already. Already know the answer to this. But I'm going to ask you anyway for your expert opinion. What is the number one? Espionage target in the world number-one espionage targeting in the world's world's United States clearly the preeminent country in the world. The world's only superpower and I'm not talking on government secrets government secrets of course adversary trying to divine government secrets but it goes well beyond that goes to industrial and trade secrets You know when you think about American the American government executes national security but the but national security is really built on American economic power and they are intrinsically physically linked and they are both subject targets from Horn. Intelligence okay Is there anything else you want to add. That I haven't asked ask you about that. You think is important knob but thanks very much for the opportunity to speak just You know any opportunity to explain something to the American people about about the challenges that the intelligence officers at work on their behalf face is always welcome. Mark Kelton a retired. CIA case officer as as we conclude the third installment of our series the fog of espionage. This has been the best of target. USA Twenty Nine tain chain a look back US episode one hundred ninety. Thank you as always for joining us and allowing us to spend some time with you. I'm deeply grateful for that. If you have any questions or comments about the program send me an email at J. Green at W. T. O.. P. Dot Com. That's the letter j the Color Green One word at Whiskey Tango Oscar Papa Dot Com. That's J. Green at W. T. O.. P. Eh dot com also follow us on twitter at T- USA podcast. That's at Tango Uniform Sierra Alpha podcast and if you want more international and national security information sign up for my newsletter inside the skiff at W. T. O. P. dot com slash alerts. I'm Jay Jay Green and this his target. USA The national security podcast happy holidays days from your friends at podcast one. Everyone expected from Lady Gang. We wanted to say thank you to all our advertisers for their support this year. We couldn't do it without you have a very happy holiday. Thirty season parole. 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United States officer Inspector Kelton CIA Jay Jay Green FBI Intelligence Historian James Bond Keith Melton DC Nicole China Ball Tamara Officer WTO Tanner L. Newry North Korea Washington
 Police chases: are they worth it?

Today in Focus

29:01 min | 1 year ago

Police chases: are they worth it?

"The today WHO's responsible when a police chase goes wrong and in opinion shearing Kale argues. It's time to ditch sexist dress codes. Uh It was late at night on the February twenty thirteen chilly night a Red Ford Fiesta put up traffic lights a police driver put up behind him on a hunch. The driver of the police car check the fiestas registration is car was linked to a local man in his thirties named Brendan Wolf serial offender into police in the area. The officer behind the fiesta was about to switch on his flickering blue lights as a signal for the car in front to pullover hit a panicked. I thought if I'm going to prison because he's Gophers as pets in the paper type than the traffic lights changed and the fiesta accelerated away vehicle making off the officer radio stations control him speed five zero fifty miles an hour he gave chase everything escalated quickly after that a sixty eight thousand one hundred miles per hour quick one minute into the chase. The faster is driving at speed and heading away from reading town centre at this point. Only one police officer chasing he's he's what's called a standard response driver and is only allowed to travel twenty miles per hour above the speed limit a rule which he will break numerous times in the next few minutes. The police drove that makes requests for the airwaves to be kept clear after several other police vehicles indicate them making their way there to assist with the pursuit. The police drive a tens right into Barkley Avenue after the fiesta briefly but if the fiesta and the police car on the wrong the road to minutes eight seconds a second police driver is now involved although he doesn't make this known to his colleagues or to the control room. The original response driver is still chasing the fiesta at speed. The police driver communicates to his control that his own speed is sixty miles. An hour speed limit on this road is forty miles an hour. This is the last time the police driver communicates speed to the control over three minutes. One second there are now at least seven police drivers involved the police driver behind the fiesta increases speed from seventy miles an hour to ninety five miles. An hour speed limit on this road is still forty miles per hour the police Dr Radios control the food yesterday driven in straight through a red light three minutes forty two seconds. Something unexpected happens. The driver of the FIESTA TURNS AROUND DOES A U turn in the middle of the road instead of driving out of reading. He's now heading back towards the town center. All would be thinking. He's get on get on Dome Dome but he didn't you turn he's he was on his way home. Truly believe he did have a seat belt on but when he got near to the fly it took it off yeah she thole it could run and he's had he thought he could four minutes one second without telling any of his colleagues over the radio one of the other police officers further back also performed a u-turn turn a man comes to almost a complete stop with his blue lights flashing that means he's now ahead of the fiesta stationary and blocking one of the two lanes the fiesta is racing towards him lies behind him. That's funny cylinder carrying felony foot down coming around a slight bend and finding its path blocked by the second police calm the Oh fiesta sheared struck the central reservation and flipped shitting smoke and debris the drive was thrown out to assigned window and onto the asphalt. He's dead by the time he hits the road. His body is then run over by chasing police. Go the isn't able to stop or avoid him in time. After the crash eight police cars arrive at the I've seen over the blue lights illuminated the driver of the fiesta is pronounced dead eleven thirty three PM when officers identified the body. It was not the person the police thought they were chasing this Matthey Seddon nineteen year old laborer and a second hand car enthusiast who that afternoon had bought Brennan Wolf's Fiesta Stop to finish from the moment. The Blue Lights went on to matthew's death the chase. Chase lasted four minutes twenty two seconds. That's the amount of time you've been listening so far. The fight for answers that would follow lasted nearly six years ending in a court case that would examine for the first time if the decisions ends of the police had breached the human rights of the person being pursued. Matthew's death would force an answer to the question of who was responsible when a police chase goes wrong from the Guardian. I'm initiator Astana today in focus all high speed police chases worth the risk. What was Matthew like what you memories of him? A lovable broke Champagne Charlie. Julie Sutton is Matthew's MOM eve. Is it a how goals it goats neighbors. Ask if you want any shop if I went shopping come upon his bike and get me shopping on his handlebars even though he can ride him mm straight tyrod and try it do anything anybody but most of all white to make people laugh young woman could Brian Dugan who was seventeen but younger than him generalists. Tom Lamont has been investigating police chases for the Guardian. They moved in together in Brownies. Mums flattening tableau reading she described the extremely excited and Howard beginnings of their relationship. Almost almost immediately fell hard for each other started discussing having a kid briny had just found out she was pregnant. She acknowledged the they were pretty young but I think they're really not somebody on the night of February. Matthew said he was going out for Quick Errand said he'd be twenty minutes to count the Secondhand Fiesta. That was the last Brian Brian he was the first to find out. He's been gone for a couple of I was it was one in the morning when police came and visited her said the being an accident on the nearby Joe Carriageway and that Matthew was dead she called Murphy's brother Shoe and who was in London and it was sure that night who called his mother hasn't that get the phone rang wounds form twice three times and then the third time I had swollen threat am announced today. He sets out remember. I said he said moments. Murphy's been in a collision and he's pronounced set the scene and I said what he said it again I said what and he said Murphy's dead and put the phone down and I remember staring at the Taylor. There's no sound and I must have been there for eight twelve hours. She just rings slight. Somebody get in a big big Musi Ballum Banganan. You'RE A and don't start ringing is disbelief six years on I'm still in disbelieving. I believe in ceiling denial when you found out about the police chase. Did you wonder why he didn't stop. He did three weeks in prison receiving stolen goods. We bought tally really that was stolen and got that was my fear fear bless him and <hes> and he swore never wants to go back in there again and I think I can only think that was the reason why because he didn't want to go to prison. Even I won't and there are other reasons mackey might not have stopped. He didn't have a seat belt on when he crashed he also had traces of cocaine in his system. Although these related determined not to have been levels that would have affected his driving or decision making but I think it's fair to say that as far as we know he wasn't what most people would call a very serious criminal or presenting any immediate danger to the public. How often is that the case in a police chase? It's hard to say I spoke to a criminal Gist David best to imbedded for time with the police Complaints Commission and studied a lot of high speed chases sending them in Wales. This was in the early noughties and he was fairly startled to to learn that the vast majority of these chases he was looking at not people public would regard a series criminals. It's interesting because most people probably didn't think very much about police chases and just assume that's the right thing today yeah. I think there's an idea that this is what we want. From Police Force by guy runs the COP chases. The question that I think is asked by lawyers. Isn't families and criminologists who have doubts in this area is is that always the wisest or safest almost rational course the most professional thing to do given that other different safe ways to catch suspects rather than chasing them in cars. I asked the police officer how difficult it was to catch up with a suspect who'd made it away from them. In in the context of a chase shrugged he said difficult tool. He put up an example of a young man. It evaded police capture. He was very quickly identified in Kotok with. I knew this because he was showing me a series of C._C._T._v.'s still run together. Woman's like flick book. We should say some police chases are successful asphalt and lead to arrest some pretty vital. There was a well known incident in London where to eighteen year olds. We're driving around on a moped. Stopping people teenage moped riders who stabbed Optima to death during a violent robbery spree west London have been given life sentences. They were started by a police chase but it's also important to say that a lot of police chases and badly since Matthew Saddens death more than a hundred hundred people have died in police chases the majority of these were drivers of the vehicle and flights or passengers in that car but there were bystanders pedestrians cyclists and one utterly chilling ace of ten ten year old boy who was working with his family on Sunday in south London to the park. Perhaps the question we need to ask ourselves tax we willing to accept for this risky activity of the police chase and it was as as soon as I read that story I think something flicked in me and I thought that cannot be an acceptable tax that a child died. A child on the pavement died at that point. I wonder why we aren't asking more questions. What caused things to go wrong? This probably this idea from programs police camera action or what have you the whenever police chases initiated this overseeing figure some supervisor in a control room who's watching live footage from the Dash Cam and maybe a helicopter view taught in the vast vast vast majority of police chases any police chase in which a helicopter is not sent out. They can't see a thing throughout any police chase. That's initiated a police driver must radio back to the control describing circumstantial detail and asking for permission to carry them. I've spoken to lawyers who said that what seems to occur when things go wrong is that there is an an accuracy of reporting from the car about exactly the levels of risk about what's happening. The failure of the driver to properly report back to the control room was one of the things that went wrong in Matthew Saddens case and it was just the first of the problems that Julie discovered when she began to try to piece together what had happened to her son. The first step in what would be a grueling journey was a report by the Independent Office of Police complaints the I._O._P._C. which arrived in the summer of two thousand fourteen eighteen a year and a half after the accident. Matthews daughter was one. These ninety pages laid out what had happened that night after reading it judy fell many mistakes have been made so many things was wrong that night not one the thing so many things that were wrong that night not passing information onto the control room was the major warm so that's the first thing not even a Stinger Stinger is a device police can put down on the road which shreds tires and ten then offices following ten cans follow him a little faster Camman. He don't eat that. Julie felt that something called Red Mist had played a part in some of the decisions. The idea red mist isn't just a phrase it's an actual psychological condition and while it's impossible to get into the mind of the officers pursuing matthew saddened that night and say whether they had read missed. This is something that can happen in police chases the police say so themselves they actually mention it by name in their training materials the driver who started something in this case of chase wants to see it through they become fixated on finishing the job on a target and this could mean for police driver. A narrowing attention loss of hearing tunnel vision is frightened me because in the two way dance it is a police chase between pursued and pursuer. We have to rely on the police drive of being the the rational. Party while Judy felt that the I._O._P._C. report gave her a good sense of what happened during those four minutes and twenty two seconds which streets matthew drove down at what time how fast what it didn't answer was who was responsible for her son's death who specifically was to blame and she felt that the police would not cooperating in finding an answer the report itself came to the same conclusion in that case Thames Valley offices had withheld accounts attempted to frustrate the investigation. There's one section where an investigator says are you allowed to initiate a perceived and the Thames Valley officer replies. I cannot remember and the investigator says you can't can't remember what you're entitled to do. Every day that you go out I find that difficult to understand why five minutes into an interview you just can't remember what you're entitled to do on the street and the officer replies. I'm not sure I can't explain how did things that make you feel always upon to be honest but then anger is not going to bring him back his who is most responsible in a chase. The pursuit or Pacific wasn't the responsibility of the police to have kept Matthew Alive. If Julie wanted an answer to this question she would have to keep going the had never before been a trial to argue over whether a police chase had breached the human rights of the person being pursued. The second stage is civil inquests libra coroner looking into the circumstances of of an unusual death in Matthew's case that took place in autumn two thousand fifteen now two and a half years after the accident is walking the family gathered in reading for three weeks went on and on and on and on and the offices that were in the sand none of them would look with compassion and nothing is like I was enemies between them may but Alice it's my son three then the findings of the coroner's inquest and Murphy's case were pretty ambiguous mixed his lawyers would say but there was reason they saw the Seddon family might pursue a further claim against Thames Valley police as a family looking looking for answers in a situation like this you have to have the stomach for a long fight. I spoke to families whose loved ones died in police chases and they got to a certain point where it was just too painful to carry on they would rather stop than have answers and have a a complete set of answers. Did you feel like giving up many times. Then I look at my funeral think have to clear his name because he's not a rogue as they made out Sabet a a fellow people were seeing him as a folk as wrong in as a button and it wasn't a burden and how the public reacting to all of this summer though when he on facebook terrible saying I should Shikha job chagall compensation try and get a job even though I've got a job of fulltime job but whenever they don't know me I should have stopped. It should've wore seatbelt. Leave the police alone but those are no the truth the sympathize Sydney. What a terrible limbo it puts people in when they just want to know what happened and whether it was worth it? Was He ultimately responsible for this chase that killed him. This is the third stage if you get so far hearing hearing it very rarely gets this for a trial. That's technically stage to settle a compensation claim made by the family against the police force in a police chase. I don't think I ever got this far. In this country. The seddon case went the trial which took place in October last year October two thousand eighteen five and a half years after the accident after his daughter was five euro and essentially over two or three days. They argued hard. who owned this police chase? He's the judge found that Matthews Human Rights had been breached by the chase the he'd been issued too hard and too long but at that point when the chase stop being proportional to the original reason for starting the offices became responsible for it ended in a crash in Matthew's death matthews right to life had been breached geely sit down of Italian. Neo You know when you say sit down. That's going to be valuable SCHRAFFT's. She just knew knew because I know my son and then one day someone would see the truth. Uh what did it mean. Did it feel like I've been worth that. Definitely I just hope and pray that this will make the place think twice when they go chase somebody the judge's she's decision set a precedent spoke to Lewis who were really boasted by finding who really felt it said a roadmap for how how you might encourage reform has the wind made any difference to the behavior of the police. Thames Valley told me they adjusted certain policies as a result of seddon incident more broadly speaking no under the car government there have been efforts to alter laws regarding the accountability of police police officers and police chases consultation was launched just before the Seddon case came to trial that consultation has resulted in a Home Office announcement they will be pursuing relaxing if these of accountability laws as they relate the two police officers involved in police chases. I mean we'll evidence that they basing that the argument that the Police Federation would make is that there are too many situations that result in lengthy investigations and possible prosecutions for police officers involved in chases of Conroe they would argue that this impinges on there but the police officer's ability to job confidence that that is a point I think lawyers on the other side of the argument would say show me these prosecutions. There are hardly ever prosecutions as a result of police chases conroe. You have just out to me something that has really challenged my perceptions on the issue of police chases and you've just told me that is actually the extreme and the unusual case where life his saved don't we as a society don't the police have to completely reassess the way we think about the risks around police chases and bring down the threshold at which we think are acceptable. I would say Sir I can absolutely see their scenarios where we need and want trains careful police drivers chasing. We ask them to protect us. We also do a really difficult job. I don't think we ask enough of these questions of our ourselves. It sounds like Julian Julian Brian is is the reason that people are going to ask some of these questions. What's like enlight for them since the verdict? Has this been closure for them. I don't know about closure when I met briny earlier this year. She said it's only with the years of hindsight she could see how young they were then how silly and they found out she was pregnant and they hit this kid under her pillow in in a flat they share with her mom. They thought no one would find out I could see how easily a nineteen year olds bad decision tree would lead to something like fleeing speed. I regretted him the he didn't slow down. He didn't pullover Dagoes by the adult thing he should have just pulled up pulled up. Just pull up just block Brian Brian I. I wish I was in the car. Brownie wishes she was in the car with him because he would have pulled up Paul Brian. She looks my few in the face of day. She sees a child and he still has grown. I mean it hurts me but it hits Brian a because they had so many dreams together. That was Jimmy Seddon. I'm Tom Lamont. Tom has written an excellent long. Read on this story which is at the Guardian Dot Com. Tom went to Thames Valley police about his reporting and they responded with this. The force has cooperated with Independent Police Complaints Commission. Now the Independent Office for police conduct the coroner's core and the civil proceedings in this case following the I._P._C._C.'s investigation instigation misconduct proceedings brought against five police officers and one member of staff three were found to have no case to answer was giving management advice for an admitted breach of duties and responsibilities another westbound to have breached the standards of duties and responsibilities but received no sanction as a result of this tragic incident Thames Valley Police's reviewed a number of our policies and our training and has improved the way we respond to incidents for example all our control room sergeants and supervisors supervisor's who are involved in managing police pursuit activity from the Control Room Perspective have been given additional training on how to make and record their decisions and actions coming up should employers be able to demand particular. Take killer dress codes with female workers now. Sharing Kale argues that you too many female employees are being forced to wear high heels short skirts a makeup to work next time you down and Erica and take a look around what <hes> the female stewardess is wearing. Are they wearing high heels makeup. Today's heels look comfortable. Would you like to have to wear high heels and we apply make up at four o'clock in the morning. If you are Latino a night flight puppy not I think most of US lives quite blithely. Ignore into the clouds that people around us are wearing unless we're forced to wear those clothes ourselves nothing wrong with addressed women in two thousand nineteen. I think I think what one is when the dress code is arguably demonstrably sexist and by that I mean addressed her at the request women to perform an exaggerated version of femininity they might not be comfortable with say the crying women's West Guts that might be short or required women to our high heels making women wear makeup if they don't want to wear made up all of these things I think are problematic. There's really nothing nothing that can describe how nominee painful your feet after a seven hour shift in three inch polyester hills people don't understand how having to put makeup on every morning is another fifteen minutes that you could have been spent in bed but you have to do it because otherwise got to work and somebody will make a barbed comment like oh you done it very well today. I think it's also very much the case that women of color are especially targeted and victimized by sex's dress codes so you the often say black women being target they have to straighten the hat looked professional. They need to make more of an effort lick smarter or more presentable in the workplace and the subtext is always clear the subtext is always that they need to look more white <music>. I think what this shows is that Oh that we've made lots of advances in times of Ataman into the workplace getting more women into senior roles enough progress. It has been made in the area. We've got to do to unlearn the social conditioning around war. Professional woman looks like and what I responsible way to behave towards each other is in the workplace. There's a railway of pushbacks happening at the moment that has been happening for some time and Japan that all women who are currently fighting to ban employers mandating that they wear high heels the Utah has seen real solid progress on this in the last couple of years is companies are doing better. I'm companies are relaxing address crates and the main reason that they are doing that is because of the fear of bad P._R.. I would say that the pitcher is not all rosy. It's not illegal to mate women wear high heels will make hi top. What is demonstrably illegal if you can show the it's discriminatory for example if the woman is working in a bar and has to carry large crates around all day and wearing high heels Mike Horse how to fall in slip then it's illegal but it's not illegal oh find employers say to a female employee you need to flip six to this job and so that means that there is more work to be done to strengthen the legislation in this country around dressed trade standards I would say as far as to say that uniform should be gender-neutral that people should be able to just wear professional clothing that suits them and their personal style and gender identity that move on? I'm what saying that footsie-100 companies allow that employee is working crop tops and hot patents. I think there's a basic standard of the coin that needs to be a teddy for. I think that we need to recognize that for many people having having to perform either femininity masculinity can be quite discomfiting that people want to wear clothes they feel comfortable in that women don't want West guards or make up all the time and that we should allow people to dress in a way that they feel as professional rational as opposed to away that we've been socially told his professional over the last fifty or one hundred years that was sharing Kale my thanks to her and to Julie Seddon and Tom Lamont an thanks thanks to anyone who has left comments and reviews do keep them coming. You can always tweet me at Annuschka Star or get in touch with India at India rakkason. This episode was produced by Josh Kelly Chica as and Courtney USA sound design.

Matthew Alive officer Police Force Independent Police Complaints Thames Valley Independent Office of Police Tom Lamont Police Federation Chase Thames Valley Police Fiesta London Brian Brian Seddon shearing Kale Murphy Julie
The Confrontation | S2 E7

The City

31:34 min | 1 year ago

The Confrontation | S2 E7

"Hey everyone so we've already wrapped season two of the city but some new information has come too late that we thought you'd want to know so so we've got a bonus episode for you now. If you just pulled a crisis today and haven't listened to the rest of the season. We highly recommend that you go back doc and listen to those episodes. I 'cause everything here will make a lot more sense. Plus it's a pretty good story but a cities struggle for its future a struggle so similar to ones that other cities across the country are also facing. Also if you didn't already know this season of the city is about strip clubs so it's not suitable for everyone especially kids. This episode contains explicit language including explicit conversations about sex. Okay okay here. We go previously on the city. We're a destination. The destination is downtown. Rena people come into play downtown Reno. They want a little bit naughty. They want some Nice. They want to go skiing up. There are illegal activities taking place within they are not self-regulating to make any of it better. They are not entitled to remain where they are and they are not above the law. There's no records there's no reports. There's no police actors nothing. So what do you do lie gotTA deal heavyset girl in a red top heavy set girl in a red talk. I don't understand how to be in this situation like think it's march twenty. Nineteen the weather in Reno is brisk to bartenders Chelsea and Julie Climb into Lecarr. Just oh I know lewd fucking scares you can hear the wind blowing and as they start their drive to the Spice House. These two women have worked at the Strip Club for years Chelsea twenty sixteen and Julia since two thousand nine so bad I throw today. They're afraid they're going to be fired for what they're about to do. Whatever whatever I don't care I don't care if I get fired I don't care I'm standing up for what's popularity what they've been doing his fucking wrong so fire me? I don't care fire. They're wrong and they don't have. The best is interest of their employees. They do not care about their female employees the answer or not in the past week. Two women men have reported to police sexual assault. They say happened at the Spice House. Chelsea is one of them and neither she nor her friend. Julie likes how these cases are being handled now. So they're going to confront the club's manager who's their boss and his boss one of the club's owners. They've secretly set their phones to record what they catch on tape could be used as evidence so even though they say they're anxious they also sound sound resolved on what they're about to do go and they're gonNA get every word on tape. I'm Robert Palmer and from USA. Today this is the city Um If you're a fan of the city and you'd like to support us the best way to do it is with a subscription Shen to USA. Today were part of USA. Today's team of investigative reporters and by subscribing. You're helping to pay for the journalism that powers our show just go to USA TODAY DOT COM and click the big blue button that says subscribe now. And if you happen to be in Reno you can. Also subscribe to the Reno Gazette Journal at RJ DOT COM and. Thanks in this season of the city. We tried to understand why Renault's powerbrokers wanted to kick strip clubs out of downtown all throughout this campaign. Gene rumors were swirling rumors about drugs and sex trafficking and prostitution inside the clubs rumors. That benefited the people who wanted ended the clubs out the city itself worked hard to dig up dirt on the club's secretly hiring a private investigator spy on them and later sending in the cops undercover ultimately the city had very little to show for its efforts in the end. The clubs were allowed to stay but as we were wrapping up our regular season a reporter engine at Damon discovered a new story of two women working in the Strip clubs who took took matters into their own hands. Here's Internet in July two thousand nineteen. I interviewed Cami Cash. Mary who owns the Spice House in two weather. Reno Strip clubs about what the women working in his club's had told me some dancers had experienced or witnessed prostitution others described abusive customers. There's and bouncers whose protection depended on how much they were tipped. Here's how one former dancer put money. You can basically touch and do whatever as Ashley in the back rooms. There's like some much happens in the back rooms. Multiple Women described similar more experiences but there wasn't any documentation to back up. Their claims downstairs told me they rarely called the police because they didn't want to cause problems for themselves offs at work or because they feared nobody would believe a stripper so the lack of a paper trail didn't convince me that nothing bad happened in the clubs but cammie considered it proof. We don't have any police reports of anybody getting assaulted. In these lounges. In twenty five years that speak for itself itself not one one one. I'm saying one you can't come to me with one so you've got nothing in your hands. Other than words. Cami became angry and that turned out to be the last interview. He granted me. I didn't know it at the time but one woman had finally decided to go to the police. She filed her report more than three months before I talked to Cami and just a month before the Reno City Council decided to let the Strip club stay. That woman was Chelsea who we just heard driving to the Spice House with her phone set. Got To record Chelsea decided not to talk with us for this episode but she agreed through her lawyer to let us use your first name. She filed a sexual harassment lawsuit lawsuit in October against Cami and his brother. Jamie Cash Mary. Who Co owns the three clubs? Her lawyer Astor not talk to reporters while the lawsuit is pending. So I've pulled together her story from the lawsuit the police report and that secret recording which I got from police through a public records request and just a quick warning it. It gets a little graphic and disturbing here. Chelsea Story Starts Back July twenty eighteen ironically right about about the time Reno. Police are sending undercover cops into the Strip clubs. One Night Chelsea stayed at work after her shift to drink with their co workers. By the end of the evening she'd had too much to drink to drive home and went upstairs to lie in a space that used to be a private VIP lounge but have been closed to the public for a while. She says police report that the club's Dj Kyle Smith followed her upstairs. Kyle had been working at the club on and off for about five years. He was a manager of bartender. Dj Whatever the club needed help with Chelsea told police you woke to fill kyle pulling down her pants. She said that she lay still too afraid to move pretending to sleep. She peeked out of one eye and saw kyle's reflection in the mirror. She told police he was masturbating. Getting over her. She said that when he was done he laughed upset and crying. She went downstairs and told Julia about what happened together. They they told their manager. David Hoffman David fired. Kyle that night. This story could have ended there but about five months later. David hired hired Kyle back. I couldn't track kyle down for an interview. He didn't return my phone calls and his lawyer said he's no longer sure how to find him. David Hoffman also declined to do an interview with me so again what follows is based on police reports and Chelsea's lawsuit kyle is a defendant in that lawsuit. David is not about three months. After Kyle was hired back at the Spice House. A second woman woman accused him of assault happened on March fifteenth. Twenty nineteen about a month before that final city council vote. Kyle was at the bar drinking after shift shift when David asked him to clean up a mess in the women's restroom as kyle was wiping up the floor. A female patron walked into the bathroom and went into a stall Kyle followed her into the stall and had sex with her later that night. The woman told police she was raped when Kyle's booked a police three weeks later he. He called it. Consensual sex police never charged kyle with a crime but it was this incident that prompted Chelsea go to police about what happened to her in the VIP the Ip Room earlier so three days after the incident in the bathroom Chelsea filed a police report. And today's after that she asked for a meeting with her manager David and the club's owner Jamie Kashmiri what happened when Chelsea and Julie confronted their bosses after through the break so kyle getting hired back after a couple months after he had sexually assaulted Chelsea upstairs in the VIP room. That was okay. That wasn't that wasn't something against Chelsea to help that when Chelsea why was he allowed to come back why Hey everyone anyone while we're taking a break here. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded to a recent call for story ideas we have heard from so many of you about what's happening in your cities and we're taking some time right now to go through all of your ideas and figure out where we want to go next. If you have an idea of something you think we should cover ever about some big chain reshaping your city or you know about somebody powerful doing something shady. It's not too late to send that idea our way. You can write us at Info at the city podcast dot com or call us and leave a message at three one two three two one seven seven the two. That's three one two three two one seven seven two two and thanks okay. Let's go back to engine Chelsea and Julie's sound nervous and scared as they walk into the Spice House with the phone secretly recording. Ah they sit at the bar to wait for Jamie and David. The police have started their investigation but Chelsea waited eight months to file a police report. Detectives ultimately said too much. Time had elapsed for them to recover physical evidence and Kyle was claiming. It didn't happen the way Chelsea said it did but maybe her conversation with David and Jamie could help. When Jamie shows up they all ahead upstairs? Jamie is Kelly's younger brother and CO owner of the clubs. He's known as the more pragmatic of the two Cami sitting here. Just get mad and stuff like that. I mean I use the right to get mad But we're not the level where the canal and you saw that. I wasn't Thursday asking me and Julie doesn't wait long before getting right to the point standing up up for Chelsea as David becomes more and more defensive so kyle getting hired back after couple months after he had sexually really assaulted Chelsea upstairs in the VIP room. That was okay. That wasn't that wasn't something against Chelsea came in here to help when Chelsea but why was he allowed to come back up here in the room so that so that's a reason. That's a reason for her to be assaulted. Yes you can talk David. David acknowledges that he hired Kyle back after the incident with Chelsea and even says he's sorry. Been Hard on people say this is not an excuse and I promise you. It's just hard by people that stay here. That actually work do were are cut so then right now. We're doing two the job but he says he also asked Chelsea if she was okay with it before bringing Kyle back the club. Those talked in became cool and I asked her when you might coming back. Did you say that Jamie wants to know. If that's true. Just answer yes or no question yes it was only know I I do WanNa talk. It was only because honestly out. If you're I didn't know how to talk to you because if you along knowing how I cry to you down there and you even thought was even okay. It even pass by even commune come questions. I actually had issues with that. I feel like I die down. I didn't know who to talk to. Chelsea is just confronted or boss in front of the club's owner. She's Got David on tape. Admitting to bringing kyle back to work after firing them when she complained Jamie blames everybody he says David shouldn't have higher kyle back and Chelsea shouldn't have acquiesced never had I see the mistake he shouldn't have been back if you should have stuck up for yourself. That's both sides. The mistakes you know any yells at all of them for drinking after work because this is your place of work. But I don't want you guys drinking lease yes because if you common theme here is you guys staying after work drinking okay. He says he didn't know. Oh Kyle have been brought back to work after the incident with Chelsea. And he's angry. Any of them would have put the club at risk in the midst of the Reno City Council's efforts to kick them out of downtown. Now we're going through their licenses. We couldn't afford that. That shouldn't even have been an option to be honest with you that he comeback come back. I'd rather not have form and just close it down rather than how someone who sexually assaulted you. If he's Sweden. Were kidding me. If word got out the wheel allow something sexually sexually assaulted. It was history. Food Dot Com Jamie's longer term solution. Shen everybody should stop drinking at the Club and David should hire older guys like somehow older guys will be less tempted by the women. We have to go find a fifty year old guy. I'd rather deal with him being slow. Having to sit there being a Predator or or hidden girls are scaring girls where customers away our problem stands from getting a couple of bouncers who I think are good. Aren't GonNa try to fuck the girls who I mean more than normally Who aren't couldn't just be fucking Weirdos and stuff like that if we solve that problem? There's ninety percent for palm to his credit. Jamie says they kyle can't come back to the club he's already been fired again for the sex incident in the the bathroom but Chelsea and Julia aren't confident Kyle won't be let back in Jamie tries to make it clear that won't happen if David is shorthanded. Just just close the cloudy says if Kyle shows up Jamie says call the police. But I'm just telling us these so the rest of you guys know that and it's not bad then fired wicker said my office and when Chelsea tells housing that she's gone to the police. He doesn't dissuade her from seeking justice on our own. But again Jamie's concern. Seems more about protecting the clubs from negative publicity city. Had I know we're going through the press. Had I known this Sexual Predator here even though kyle was fired again none none of this makes Chelsea feel any better Jamie lecturing her about drinking after work promising to hire older. Male staffers and refusing to really address Davis his decision to bring Kyle back doesn't put her at ease concerns. This is just going to just may concern you. I said earlier if I didn't like how it's handled before. Why do I even? She's worked here. I don't believe that he's going to be on. I think it three six months eight months. He's going to weasel. He's lose weight when I quit. I don't I don't care I quit. Julie follows suit. I'm going to my keys. I can't stay here and when I sign those reports and hurt in this secret recording. Was that here for the first time was documented evidence that pierced cameras claims that nothing bad ever happens to women in his club's proof. The club rehired a man. They had fired after a bartender accused him of sexual assault. A man that Jamie refers to as a quote Predator and beyond the allegations of sexual assault. I discovered something else troubling in those police reports. David Hoffman the manager who fired and then rehired hire Dj. Kyle Smith may have tried to cover up for Kyle with police after the incident in the bathroom. According to the Police Report David told detectives he had stayed aide with kyle the entire time. He was cleaning the bathroom. Leaving only to grab disinfectant to bring back to kyle but kyle made no mention of David being in the restroom and was apparently in there long enough to have sex for a few minutes according to his own statement to police after learning all of this I wanted to know more about the club's response to it. Why do nothing more than Eke out an apology from David for bringing Kyle back to the club? Why continue to employ David? After he told police something at odds with White Kyle himself admitted. So I call Jamie up Jamie speaking hey Jamie. It's Sanjay Net from the Reno Gazette Journal and genetics. How're you doing good good? I ask if he he knows about the recording he does your take what you want from recording I mean it was mate being comparable on their side. As you know they're trying to find something against me obviously sleet but look I. I meant what I said. I was very Up a course. I don't need to hear it. I know what I said. I wanted to know why Kyle was allowed back back to work in the club. Look when I heard about all the things that went down Porsche fired but we fired but you know we don't know if he was his bad or whatever and stuff like that you know. Of course you know he's as the villains so the PAINTING HIM OUT TO BE VILLAINS SO I I don't think he's really the villain that he is but he is bad enough for me to let him go never let him back in. Yeah that's that's all I have to say. No sex in the bathroom is not something. That's occurring whether it's consensual or not. Is that to lutely absolutely when I when I heard that I'm like you gotta go so I wanted to ask him more about David and about all the other stuff I had learned but he cut me off. Work it out. I had a little morlock with his lawyer Mark Behrman. I reached him on the phone as he was vacationing in Portugal. As soon as I bring up the lawsuit and Chelsea's report to the police lease mark launches into an attack on her credibility mark. Mentions that Chelsea has been arrested for a D. Y.. In the past mugshots which are not pretty okay so hurt but does her. Dui Record have any bearing on the fact she was taken advantage of by this Dj Abso-. Aw should take advantage of people when they're drunk right. So why did you bring that up Because it just where you wonder about her recollection elect show savings. And how and if there's another side story I haven't talked to Kyle. I don't know what he has to say. No wonder women at the clubs. Don't think anyone will believe them. I think why did the club allow David. Bring Kyle back to work. I ask it was a mistake to bring them back and if I were him I wouldn't have done it but he did Sorry the guy who knows and David saying he was in the bathroom with Kyle the whole time the night of the second incident so clearly David wasn't in there the whole time or well he was. He would have known about the sex so okay so David should get higher right now as of now. David's steelworks at the club. So I asked mark what are the Kashmir is doing to make sure this doesn't happen again. He tells me that their team has weekly meetings for anyone is free to bring up their concerns including safety issues are you go to Thursday evenings you hear the ransom raves. And how the yellow people who have missed traffic or what Dancer comes in and complains about it. Weekly meetings this is enough to ensure that they're safe workplaces. No a take action of the lease whenever there's a problem okay. When this was brought the canton they fired the guy? Okay obviously the manager was doing it for Chelsea. The police are really the next step in the chain of accountability so I turned back to the police reports to see what the detectives were able to figure out about this case and what I found there was surprisingly sizing Li little in Chelsea's case Police Interview Three People Chelsea David and Kyle David told police. He had no idea so what happened after Kyle followed Chelsea upstairs even though when it first occurred David actually fired kyle based on what Chelsea told him. Kyle told police. He didn't masturbate over Chelsea. He said he brought her a glass of water because she was drunk and that she pulled down her own pants. After those two interviews reviews police closed the case. They didn't press any charges against Kyle in the second case involving sex with a patron in the club bathroom mm-hmm police interviewed four potential witnesses and completed a rape kit on the woman which they said did not provide them any evidence they could use in the case. Detectives decided to close the case after learning. The woman had a drink with Kyle after the encounter and had told people at the bar that she quote thinks she just had had sex. That's it both cases closed I wanted to know why the police lease didn't do more when the political fight over the Strip clubs started this city through a ton of resources at sussing out vague rumors of sex trafficking teen prostitution. They hired a private investigator. Incentive undercover cops council members said their intent was to look out for people's safety but their efforts ended up punishing the dancers like Stephanie who was prosecuted for solicitation after time an undercover cop. Maybe in this case is the city had two women come forward and say they were victims. Admittedly this would be a tricky case to prosecute before a jury given the facts involved but again the city went after Stephanie. For the word maybe and here I wanted to know why the city wasn't more aggressive for instance. Why didn't the police interview the manager David when it became clear that his statement did not all line up with Kyle's version of events? Why didn't they interview Cami or Jamie? Amy Kashmiri why didn't they interviewed. Julie who was the first person Chelsea saw after her encounter with Kyle so I want to talk with Lieutenants Act through At the Reno Police Department he oversees the Detective Division and supervises the detective who investigated both cases and my reading of the report. It looks like he only talked two three people. The the the suspect the victim and the victim's manager who kind of blew it off was there more to be done I. I'm wondering if it was Throw enough of an investigation. Only talking to those three people Yes and to meet our burden of proof Yes because unfortunately it's is difficult in that circumstance. Where once again you have a a suspect and alone victim you have a delayed report and you have no physical evidence so to you? You have to weigh the evidence and see if you're going to be able to meet your burden of proof to move forward in the case but what about David the Spice House manager potentially talent polices story story to cover for Kyle. Why wasn't that investigated further? We can always look at obstructing an investigation or tampering with an investigation. And so in this case We do have the individual statements. But we don't have evidence That that would rise to the to the burn approve that we need to pursue it legally or in court. What I really want to know is how does this all fit into the broader fight against the Strip clubs in the big picture? We try to investigate pursue a case on behalf of the victim in the case And and we remove any other context that may be going on lieutenant. Food draws what he thinks is an important distinction between his unit and the unit responsible for the undercover operations. The set unit we do not not as detective section participate in the operations that set us Nor do we take any sort of direction from the city attorney's office or any other office on how we're going to proceed through wants to make clear. His department has nothing to do with city attorney Carl Halls Office which was responsible for secretly hiring the private investigator to spy on the clubs. And who's attorneys prosecuted Stephanie. In short who is same politics. Don't play into his units approach cases and in this case there just wasn't enough evidence to support a prosecution. I understand that the outcome in this case was that we weren't able to To get criminal charges in this particular case but I don't want to discourage people from reporting I think it's it's very important for people to understand that if you believe a crime occurred or if it crime did occur to you that you can come forward to police deparment arm and understand that we are going to investigate the incident on your behalf outside of any political context and without direction or influence from anyone in the bigger story. We told this season there were times when Reno's powerbrokers seemed to roll right over people with less power and less control all over what was happening in their city. People like Stephanie. But people like Stephanie. Like Chelsea and Julie are not powerless in the end Chelsea and Julia decided to take matters into their own hands. Confrontations like this one between aggrieved employees bosses between women who say they were abused and those they believe are responsible are happening across America. But it's so rare to actually hear it unfold the way we were able to hear thanks to Chelsea Secret Recording Chelsea sexual harassment lawsuit still pending in fact as we're wrapping up production on this episode. Julie also filed a motion to join Chelsea's lawsuit and added her own allegations of sexual harassment the cash. Mary's are opposing that motion. A federal judge will decide whether the case has merit That's it for this bonus episode. If you're not already subscribe to the city you can subscribe right now apple podcasts spotify or wherever you're listening If there are any significant future developments in the story will be sure to keep you in the loop. The city is a production of USA Today and distributed in partnership. With wonder you like the show please. Rate and review US and be sure to tell your friends about us. Bonus episode was reported and produced by Engineer Damon Phil Corbett Camille Stanley. Taylor make an Robin Aamer. Our editors or amy pile that big then. Austin is our story consultant original original music and mixing is by. Hannah's Brown editorial oversight by Chris Davis and Brian Dugan legal review by Tom Curley special. Thanks to many Garcia ARSIA. I'm Robin Hammer. You can find us on facebook twitter and Instagram at the city pod but we have all kinds of behind the scenes content from season to including photos of many of the key. People and places in our story and interviews with engine or you can always go to our website. That's the city podcast dot com and

Chelsea Kyle David Hoffman David Julie Climb Chelsea Jamie Spice House Kyle Smith Strip clubs Jamie Cash Mary Reno Cami Cash Julia David Hoffman assault investigator Reno City Council skiing Chelsea David Reno Gazette Journal
Wednesday 17 April

Monocle 24: The Briefing

34:33 min | 2 years ago

Wednesday 17 April

"You're listening to the briefing. First broadcast on the seventeenth of April twenty nineteen on monocle twenty four. Live from London. This is the briefing monocle twenty four. I'm Ben Ryland coming up, Donald Trump blocks a plan to end the war in Yemen has the US presidents relationship with Saudi Arabia clouded his judgement. Also ahead Spain's authorities ban a far right party from taking part in TV election debates is it a sensible move or censorship? Laws will have the latest business and technology news and the iconic British publication the face makes a comeback. The number of people come up to me saying that this magazine is like a portal to this incredible world they wanted to politics of is quite touching hit. I and I feel very on an impromptu bringing it back that's ahead on the briefing live from London. I to our top story. It's being confirmed that Donald Trump has blocked a Bill that calls for an end to the Saudi led war in Yemen. I'm joined on the line by Scott Lucas, who's a professor of international relations at the university of Birmingham scored. This is a clear example of congress breaking away from the president. How significant is that? It is inefficient that congress has pushed back against not just the Trump administration. But the Trump families ties with Saudi Arabia. But of course, it is also significant in that it's only the second time that congress has really pushed Trump to use a veto the first time was a couple of weeks ago when he was forced to uphold his national Birgit safety as part of Zante emigrant campaign. But in this case, I think what is even more significant than the congressional action. Is that Trump would defy not just Democrats bought Republicans in being fairly blatant, which is that the US will continue to back the Saudi led intervention in Yemen, which has been one of the prime causes for ten thousands of people being killed for millions being at threat, including from lack of food lack of basic supplies as well as the destruction that civil war causes. And that is quite purely not because of the lack of judgment because Trump and his son in law, Jared Kushner have personal and business interest that being they are tied at the hip with the crown prince the Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman. I to get to what's in store for Yemen in just a moment. But first, let's stick with the politics of this initially because at least to democratic congressman cooling full the president's veto to be overturned, how likely is that dot is a really huge question because I would have thought it would not have gotten to this point because although pressure was building after last October when the Saudi Crown prince allegedly ordered the assassination of the journals Jomaa Soji, I still thought that the Senate would not pass a resolution to come out of the civil war because quite frankly, Republicans have been so loathed to stand up Trump on any issue over the past well more than two years, but they did they did pass the resolution now the question is will that majority vote in the Senate turn into a two thirds vote to overturn the veto that means you got to get even more Republicans to join the Democrats in defying Trump. About twenty Republicans out of the fifty three and Senate have to do that. I would say yes, it is possible. And if it is possible, that's a huge side. Because of course, it is the first time that congress has overwritten a Trump veto, and it comes even as he is beginning to ramp up his campaign for reelection in two thousand twenty does this mean that the the president's end, perhaps even the Trump family ties to the Saudi regime, those ties now stronger than perhaps he's ties might be to the Republican establishment. Oh, they've always been stronger than the Tyson's Republican establishment. I mean, the great illusion is that Donald Trump was a Republican even when he ran for the Republican nomination. He was affectively an insurgent candidate who took over the party. And what you have. Well, let's just give one very clear example of how the to cut across and that is it is alleged that as part of the attempt to get influence with Trump that Saudi Arabia, and the UI who has also been instrumental in waging the intervention in Yemen donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to Trump's political action committees and to his inaugural committee at the start of two thousand seventeen it is alleged that Saudi officials had you a officials met with Trump's people before he took office to work out issues such as Yemen. Those ties took place not as part of a Republican policy or Republican strategy. But as part of a Trump in her. Circle strategy one which is linked to while for example, his son-in-law Jared Kushner seeking vital loan money from the UAE to prop up a one point nine billion dollar mortgage, which was due on a major building project in New York City. Scott. The warring Yemen has created what is now the world's worst humanitarian crisis. Do you? See this veto is effectively a green light full of that to continue for the time being and could that potentially be a bigger issue? Full President Trump as the election draws closer. I mean, first of all it is clearly a green light to the to the Saudi monarchy that there will not be a check on its activities in Yemen. And indeed that it will continue to receive significant by billions of dollars have been given by the us to support that effort, but I wouldn't overplay that for two reasons first, I think the Saudis would still persist in their intervention in the Yemen civil war, even if Trump had not issued the veto. I think they do have backers from elsewhere, and they are not going to give up the conflict at this point. Although they might move towards a ceasefire. But the second reason I think that amongst American voters what is happening in Yemen is very low down on their list of concerns for two thousand twenty. So I think Trump can't issue this veto without taking an immediate hit a month's voters. Unless unless what you see as a Republican party rebellion which could affect other issues and therefore sorta spill over in terms of his support for reelection next year. Scott Lucas, thanks as ever for your expert analysis. This is the briefing. Seven minutes past twelve here in London. Let's get the latest business news. Now, I'm joined on the line by Bloomberg's you and pots you in the world's second. Biggest economy is continuing to grow. Tell us more Benazir trio of data points out of China. The world's second-biggest economy on all three of them rather pleasing for investors who are worrying about the global slowdown which were currently in factory output in March jumped by eight and a half percent from year early that was much higher than the communists expected. Retail sales grew by eight point seven percents from a year ago. Investments also up in China, not left the big number the big nobody watches gross domestic products rising six point four percents in the first three months of the year from a year earlier that matched law scores paste, and again was slightly better than economists were expecting now we've had some much less. Good data out of Europe. Germany's economic ministry today cutting. Its forecast for growth because some very weak figures out of Italy at a number of other European economies to China's stabilization, which has been the subject of much discussion lots of measures from the Chinese government to stabilize economy and tries to get growth back on track. Really coming as rather welcome for markets. Coproduction also grew in March for the first time since September China's costs aisles have been dropping the last year for the first time in almost thirty years. But some good news out of China today. Indeed. And some interesting news out of Netflix. It seemed I I did see a story last night. A Netflix reporting sim viewing figures for the first time interesting to see that the umbrella academy had performed particularly. Well, it's not all being good news at Netflix HQ, though. No the question really how much a consumer's willing to pay for net flicks. The streaming services really dropping without question. Once again raised the prices in many its largest territories over the past month as well as a price. Bump in the US market. It's because market by far the hikes in Brazil, Mexico and in parts of Europe. Now, those increases goes will help Netflix bossom lime, but they do come a time when competition in the streaming sector is really proliferating now numbers we had out of net. Flicks showed that the company reckon it would add five million new subscribers in the current quarter. Well, short of Wall Street's hopes for six point one million to put that in a little bit of context that will be the worst three months stretch in more than two years. We become accustomed to net flicks really adding subscribers at quite a pace last quarter with a hundred and forty nine millions of Scribner's around the world paying subscribers that is the company spending more than seven billion dollars on programming. It's really a phenomenal story Netflix. It's certainly way out head of rivals has that first mover advantage is by far the biggest dreaming service in the world. But this plenty of competition. Not least three cently announced at Disney. Plus service, which will cost seven dollars a month in the US. That's a new addition to the competitive environments. Netflix has consistently said that there's room for all these plays a number of analysts were kind of pleased by the fact that does he's offering is pretty cheap and hope for net flicks. At least is that people will have that rather than deleting their Netflix subscription and taking out a different one binge-watching fatigue perhaps or maybe it's a subscription fatigue. Either. One you in poets, always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us here on the briefing. Should the foul right to be banned from taking part in TV election debates Spain's authorities certainly thinks are they've ruled that the country's vox parties, inclusion them would be a violation of electoral law. Let's get more on this now with IVA Gabe who is a professor of political journalism at the university of Sussex, either thanks for joining us Spain's electoral commission says that the potty didn't receive enough votes, but some on convinced what's your take. Well, electro commissions do tend to have to make decisions which are on the face of it constitutional. But sometimes political. I have to say I think that faced with a genuine difficulty because they are looking at the electoral performance, not in regional elections in national elections in the last national elections Vokes hardly registered North Point one percent. But they have been as much as as is happening across Europe a coming force, a far right nationalist party in regional elections. Quite recently. They were getting into double figures, and they have a case, but the rules of the electoral commission are they go by previous electrical formats in the UK we've faced similar problems where they now do a combination of pass electoral performance, plus current opinion polling which gives them more flexibility. But of course, one cannot ignore the fact that the mainstream political parties in Spain didn't want to confront Volks and this word rather well for them. It does seem to be fair enough point to make that you need to have a certain level of electoral success before you're invited to take part in a television debate. I mean that that would be the case in many countries around the world, it does seem to be the case in in this particular instance, that some of the concerns were about whether allowing the Vokes party to take part of a TV debate with that would allow them to appear to be more legitimate more legitimate political party than they otherwise might be. She is giving a platform to divisive politics such as those represented by Vokes is that a legitimate concern? Well, I think it is. Specially we have to bear in mind. Spain is a relatively new democracy Franco regime was over only overthrown in the nineteen seventies and Spain I won't say riven, but there are very well known separatist precious their long-standing the boss pressure. And by the way, the Basque political party as mar was banned from Spanish television throughout the period of the editor insurgency. And of course, now, we have the issue of independence for Catalonia. And although the there is the Catalan party is banned from television, the Spanish state fills quite fragile and separatist parties. Lobbying to try and have access as well. And the main part of the mainstream parties are trying to hold the fought so to speak. So I think Spain I wouldn't say is unique. But it is a special case a new democracy with separatist forces. So what understands why they're all walking X shows on this and one other Stearns why the established part is on wildly keen to give legitimacy to a far right nationalist movement. With that said, this is an argument that happens in most democracies around the world, this idea of giving a platform to a body or a political identity that may not necessarily deserve that platform in this case the platform is a television debate though, that's quite different to inviting the leader of a far right party onto say breakfast television. Isn't it? Well, these debates about who should be in the debates have dogged British politics for a number of years, the original debates who would just between three main parties. But as votes fractured the nationalists. The anti-european parties and various others claim the right to say we did end up in the last election in the UK with a debate of seven leaders, which isn't really much of a debate. But it's not just the leaders in this country gain forgive me. But we we did set a precedent because Mrs Thatcher literally banned the voices of anybody from shin Fain, which was the Irish political party that supported the IRA when it was involved in a war against the UK state and their voices were banned. Widow broadcasters found a very clever way, they go actors who sounded like the IRA the shin Fain leaders, and they dubbed them over. So if you're watching a news broadcast, you couldn't tell it wasn't the voice of the leader. So political parties have found ways around these pans at times. Critics often point to the prevalence of people such as Nigel Faraj here in the United Kingdom over in Australia. It might be someone like polling Hanson, the presence of people like that on television leading to some sort of normalization of what they represent in politics. And certainly in a strictly this has become a quite a recently hated issue with a issues such as pulling Hanson being invited onto breakfast television. Very regulation was even a contestant on dancing with the stars at one point as well. But the actual politics that these people represent are anything, but the friendly politics that they might represent on dancing game shows. And if you look at someone like Nigel Farage here in the United Kingdom, his presence on the BBC in various of the networks, certainly seems to have much more to do with these open schedule than he's electoral success is TV guilty of normalizing certain kinds of politics. Well, yes, and no he says ambivalent certainly Najjar for us. Is who listeners around the world of public familiar with is brilliant at using television to create that image of the ordinary bloke? You know, he's n- he's rarely seen without a pint of beer in his hand. Who though people who know him? Well, told me he prefers gin and tonic and he has done. Well, but I just wanted to point to another case of a more even more extreme when even more a more foul right person who some accused of being a Neo Nazi who was leader of the British National Party. And he appeared on a political talk show and was deemed to have made a bit of a fool of himself and his political support plunged. So sometimes if the political leader ain't that smart, it doesn't do them any good. But the case of Farraj an Pauline Hanson for that matter, and they are compatible in some ways shows that the informal medium of television can normalize politicians who enormous political discourse. Might be regarded as be on beeped beyond the pale. So it is something democracy doesn't come without its costs. And you know, one has nice people as well as not so nice people running and unless they break the law. That's their right. And unfortunately, there's platforms are all too often. He comfy couch on fluffy breakfast. Telly IVA gabo. Always a pleasure to get your insights here on the briefing. And now he's what else we keeping an eye on today. Polls have closed in Indonesia's general election. President would go who is seeking a second. Five-year term is seen as the front run on in the contest. Preliminary votes are expected shortly the electoral commission will not officially announce the winners until next month. The right-leaning United conservative party is taken power in the Canadian province of Alberta. Provisional results suggest that the party is one sixty two of the legislatures eighty seven seats. It means that the former federal cabinet minister, Jason Kenney will be the next premier oval home. And today's monocle minute reports that the number of children living in Seattle has reached its highest levels since the nineteen sixties. You census data shows that more than one hundred thousand people onto the age of eighteen now Cole the city harm for more on that story. Head to Monaco dot com and sign up to the monocle minute. This is the briefing on a cool twenty four. Just about to hit nineteen minutes past twelve here in London time for a technology round up now joined in the studio by Monaco's own inspector gadget, David Phelan. Thanks for puffing in David. Let's talk first about ignorance of technology. There's a good reason for this though hallway is saying the US government is ignorant of technology that doesn't shock me at all. What's led to this? I think it's part of the ongoing issues that way is having with the American government. You remember the very senior. Executive at while we was arrested in Canada. And was potentially is going to be charged with quite significant offenses that have really set off an antagonistic between China and America, or at least with between hallway and the American government. And the big thing that American and other governments have against way is they don't trust them. They think that there is data scraping or there is stuff going on in that equipment, which could be detrimental to western governments. And of course, a lot of their equipments is not just limited to to mobile phones. But to networks and mosques, and the technology the powers those, and that's what people suspicious off. So now of while way executive Peter Zhao says that he has to explain technology to American politicians as if he was explaining it to his children. You can imagine that that would be somewhat difficult is this is the real problem here. The fact that lawmakers might be seeing while I not necessarily as a technology company bought more of as an extension of the Chinese government. So the real mistrust isn't necessarily hallway it's in the Chinese government. And they perhaps on seeing qualify as being independent enough to be able to to speak credibly on any of these issues. No, absolutely. The founder of while away was a part of the red the people's army in China. And so that that was in other words, quite a strong connection potentially. That doesn't mean that there is any connection. I've spoken to very senior executives at while way once in Shenzhen in China, and my last visit there, and they were adamant that was no government interference. They won't quite able to be specific. They said there was a connection to local. Government. But there wouldn't be any more clear about it than that. But certainly it was the case that as you walked into the while way building sites that you were looking at on your phone just died, you can get on Facebook. You can even get onto British is actually there was a very strong control. But that that is certainly the Chinese government. But it's clear that in a building such as always there is the same restriction as there would be in other government buildings. Let's move along slightly still involving while my though because wa has also offered to supply chips and five G modems to apple for its new iphone? Now, this isn't necessarily something that will be on the top of people's minds when they're going into by their iphone a lot of the time bodies quite crucial to how the new phones work isn't. It will be to be cleared. Although there are going to be five G phones in American the UK in large numbers this year. It's believed that the next iphone which will probably be launched in September will not have a five G capability. That's probably September twenty twenty that they'll be five G modem, but was been quite interesting in the last few days is that quantum and apple of being involved in a very significant court case which out of the blue into everyone surprise was suddenly settled yesterday and three hours after Intel put out a statement saying they were not going to be making five G modems for their current customers this year on ext that current customers include apple that wasn't spelled out. So it seems I I don't know how much these things are choreographed. But it seems like it's just possible that apple settled with Qualcomm. So knowing that Intel couldn't make the modem so they can go back to quote, come to get the five G modems for the twenty twenty I fence while as you say have been very open saying, yes. Well, we'd be interested in talking to apple about. It supplying those things, but I think that would be quite a a slightly political difficulty in the way we've just been talking about. But also, I I don't know how apple would bring themselves to say while way our world leading company, and we will accept modems from them. Just finally time is against us. I just want to know about this rumor that I that apple might be working on a new smaller iphone, you mentioned briefly before we went on air that you like to update your phone fairly regularly. Would you be looking for a smaller iphone, I thought it was all about getting the big of? Well, that's what that's what everyone wants. But. Well, no, everyone a lot of people still like the iphone SE was the the last one had four inch screen did phenomenally. Well, it's just been removed earlier this year. So maybe next spring. They'll be one with a slightly biggest green room to be called the iphone X or ten supposedly. Yeah, I'm still saying X off of my friends Xs ole find monocle technology correspondent, David Phelan. Thanks for joining us here on the briefing. Twenty four minutes past twelve let's dive into the newspapers now with Monaco's page Reynolds page, of course, Notre Dame still all over the newspapers today, let's start with Lamont indeed, it would feel opt to go for the French newspapers coverage today, of course, this is a story that's been developing. And we've been we've been following it since it broke on Monday evening, the front page over the moon today is a very somber photo of Notre John after the famous spy has collapsed while the rest is sort of engulfed. The headline is north Adama Notre histoire so our history underneath the photo. The the rest of the coverage throughout the Mon today split into five categories of got the tragedy itself, the story the origins the history and the politics behind and just underneath that. I think it's poignant to point out the cartoon they've gone with today cartoons can be an incredibly unique way of distilling, very traumatic events and today, they've got a young. A woman who's sort of in a French revolutionary army hot who's carrying this ferry. Imposing flag in the shape of the Notre Dom with the colors of the tree sort of superimposed over it sort of going into flames very kind of a very poignant reminder of of what happened and the impact of what happened. If we go further into the paper, the first bread is titled resisted, the Nazis, we cannot let it give up now and lots of sort of very emotional outpouring of grief the next few pages. We've got a really incredible array of photos, very strong visual storytelling. I think from all the newspapers on this. And then a a few more pages in they've actually reprinted all of the international or a sort of selection, the international front pages from she's the New York Times Lara public L pays and I guess to sort of express the gravity of this on on on an international scale, which leads me to a piece. In the international new times today, a nation influx, watches stone and faith burn. I thought this piece is interesting is it's going to put in context what the New York Times has picked up on here is of course, the the fi happened on the day that Macron was supposed to explain how he was going to meet the demands of the yellow vest movement. It also says, you know, this is not unlike other recent clemencies Grenfell tower, of course, exposing a wealth of qualities in London the bridge collapse in Genoa revealing the greed of privatization absence of Italian leadership and the national museum or Brazil as well Russo of through through government neglects, this is of course, very different tragedy. But the right kind of points out that in some way, it's this opportunity, I guess to reflect on current society. And and how we might go about rebuilding. It. The end of the peace sums up nicely saying in France today is wrestling with how to reinvent itself for a new age this sort of this'll burning will hopefully. Be a blip. It may take years to rebuild the cathedral will reinvent itself to. So, you know, very, I think an interesting take on maybe sort of stepping back a little bit from the tragedy. Absolute the New York Times doing an excellent job of really chipping in there as the world's paper of record. And always does a brilliant job of contextualising things like this that happened in various parts of the world page. Let's move on to one of the other stories that I know caught your eye caught my eye as well. And if the advertisers had they would be catching literally, everyone's I went talking about billboards in space in these this is a story in the times today, Pepsi cans Sifi venture to put advertising billboards in space, clearer, headline pun, Pepsi has now abandoned these announced plans over the weekend to promote its whereas on billboards in space or a few days ago, the Russian branch of Pepsi confirmed. It was collaborating with this company could start rocket to project an advertisement from cluster of south. Delights. So stark claims to be developing the first orbital ad system. So they're going to have two hundred satellites flying between two hundred and fifty one and three hundred miles from earth each satellite with these kind of foil sales with a single logo or a message, the Russian spokesman for Pepsi confirmed this, but there's been backlash as you can imagine from the US parent company claiming the details of the punish it may not have been communicated you two translation errors. But it does raise really important concerns about the future exploitation of space, and there's a few quotes from some Astro physics professors. David Clements from the Imperial College London said the project is is feasible but turning the sky into a floating billboard is a monumental act of cultural and scientific vandalism. Also concerns about you know, the there's already so much light pollution. This is only going to add to those issues of ever came into effect. A could also render multi-million-pound optical instruments and telescopes useless for parts of. The night. So we're hoping it it's not the next frontier. If the margins finally made their way to earth, and the first thing they saw was a giant flooding billboard, full, Pepsi. It almost brings to mind a scene from the Tim Burton Vilmaz attacks. That's a discussion for another day page Reynolds. Thanks for taking us through today's papers. Finally today, the face is back the classic coacher journalists you back in print in a few months. But today, it's officially back in business online articles Fernando, Augusta per check is here for a you know, all about this. You spoke to the editor. Didn't you absolutely stood burnt? He came here to Midori house, and he was telling me the faces back. Indeed, I'm in the print version will be on the newsstands around August and September. He didn't review the Kover. I think what they want something really really special for that. But but this week the websites finally out, and I did have a look band. Actually looks very interesting. I loved there is a photo. Shoot of young Drake fans from the concerts, concerts, quite it was almost more interesting seeing how they're his fans look like than the artist himself. So I could totally see some of the DNA of the original face on the website. Lots of interesting stories, and Subaru seems a very nice guy. I mean, he worked in quite a few publications as well. So I am very hopeful. Because I'm a big fan of the magazine. And it was very sad when he closed down thousand four show, we have listened to my interest your discussion with the faces editor this is financials chat with Stuart Brumfield. So I started reading the face on his fifteen I say when I lived in a suburb of Bradford at guy into leads on a Saturday shopping at the training, and there was w h Smith in the station, and I always buy a copy on the way back from leads, and basically devour, and it was my source of everything knowledge of everything from music to fashion wide features culture. So it was a huge. Can the world in a really amazing wife me? And since we've announced its relaunch, it's become clear. It's the same for a lot of people. The number of people come up to me saying that this magazine is like a portal to this incredible world they wanted to be part of it's quite touching hitter. And I feel very honored to be bringing it back. Do you hear certain responsibility? Because you know, the magazine is considered a Cornick by Mannino. There is kind of. It's almost heavy, you know, kind of the image that the face has what do you feel about that? Because clearly you gonna put your imprint on the brand as well. Yeah. I mean, it's huge responsibility. I was getting the train back from King's Cross around Christmas and withstood looking down the wall of all the covers and seeing that two hundred meters with amazing iconic covers was like God. That's obviously a lot of pressure. But I think the main thing is bringing back, obviously, I hear website. And then we print is ready would just wanting to capture that same spirit save energy that same exciting. Mix of subjects and pretty fair to sheets in somebody's. If you've had some the spirit of it. Then it's actually more simple than you'd imagine. I think if you kind of get bogged down in the details of iconic covers come before. And certain writers have done features. Then you can get more bogged down in that. But really it's just trying to fake because then on the spirit of it, which I find it quite interesting. So it's not going to be from what I noticing not such only just an astrologer trip in a way because even with your contributing editors think you won't like completely different voices perhaps from the magazines that are already on the new stance yet definitely not an astrologer trip. I mean with is launching the website. It helps us previous, you know. It's not an astrologer project because we're doing real exciting forward facing digital design graphics. We're working with beer abortion Munich team headed by Alex, Brian Dugan, amazing job encouraging. Real fresh new talent. So I think on that basically, it's clearly not honest algae project and the team is really young. We've got people from twenty up to my age overcome this and Evans, bring in fresh new ideas, and we want to capture coach as it's happening, and certainly not looking at the past too much or they of respecting the amazing heritage that was molecules Fernando Augusta checker in conversation with the faces editor Stuart breath the face, of course, is back online today. The printed edition is you out on newsstands in a couple of months have a look around August September. That's all four today's edition of the briefing was produced by Reese, James and research by your lingo film, and Theresa motherly studio manager was David Stevens. The briefing is back at the same time tomorrow. I'm Ben Ryland. Thanks for joining us.

Donald Trump US Yemen London China president Saudi Arabia Europe United Kingdom Chinese government Netflix editor Spain congress Jared Kushner Scott Lucas Trump Pepsi apple
NGOPI #16 - Hak dan Kewajiban Suami dan Istri

Radio Fajri 99.3FM

1:12:52 hr | 6 months ago

NGOPI #16 - Hak dan Kewajiban Suami dan Istri

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Wednesday 10/28/20 - Ghost Hunter Part I

Chicago Dog Walk

44:27 min | 6 months ago

Wednesday 10/28/20 - Ghost Hunter Part I

"Alright Bang Bang today is Wednesday October twenty eighth. Welcome to the dog walk presented by Barstool skorts very special guests. Today I'm joined on zoom by Dale Kes- mark. He is a CO founder of the Ghost Research Society and. A ghost hunter is that is that technically what you're called Bill While I hate to use the word goes hundred because it implies you actually going around with rifle and you're kind of hunting ghost. So I. I kind of liked it term either paranormal investigator or psychic investigator. Something like that it's more indicative of what I do since us not always ghosted I investigate as poltergeist phenomena can be haunting that can be other type of phenomenon swell well. Interesting how'd you get into it? Can you take us to the beginning real quick? Sure Why? Against the story because when Elsa child my my parents and grandparents me stories when I was a youngster necessarily kind of got me involved in the paranormal. Later, on Look, first of all these stories. Were very local to the area I lived in, which was the south side of Chicago So later on I just decided to know find out some of these stories were actually true the old wives, Tales, urban legends or whatever, and that's what really got me more involved joining a group of minded people back in the mid nineteen seventies including a good friend of Mine Martin? And then about couple years later. In nineteen seventy seven we decided to. Start this group called the ghost trackers club which was called back then. And it was just a very small group of people that we did investigations locally here in Scotland area. we get research. This was long before the world, wide web or the Internet they were both voice services out there. So it was really really kind of hard to get information across out in the appeal box and Oaklawn I told people a semi their ghost stories and really amazed by the amount of what we. Call Snail Mail. Of. Different types of reports pictures. Personal encounters that people sent me throughout the years. So I worked as research assistant for five years. In the ghost trackers club before. We. Martin Martin Carl. Other endeavors at that point. So we controls the group we changed the name. To ghost research. Society in Nineteen. Nine hundred. which is a bit more indicative. We actually do ghost research. While you remember exactly when you were like, what was the main one that kind of got you interested in this stuff? Oh. Yeah. My very first go store that I can remember was resurrection Mary. Resurrection Mary Hitchhiking Dull Story for those that are enough story started out in the mid nineteen thirties of a girl hitchhiking back from within called the Oh Henry. Ballroom. Newest. Now, call the Willowbrook murder down several years ago. and. She was being she was seen hitchhiking. Back and forth between a proximate. The willowbrook ballroom used to be and the main Resurrection Cemetery. Now the some of the very first person encounters that I came across starting around nineteen, thirty, seven, nineteen, thirty, nine, nineteen, forty. And My mom and Dad regret were dating in that time period just before Second World War. My Dad was a merchant marine, very proud of my service and We like my mom and Dad would go out dinner movie date eater whatever the case may be. But always on the way home, they wanted to write pass these. My Dad did I tasked resurrection cemetery looking for the ghost a he has seemed to go see was really the ghost hunter I. Guess You could call him up the family and my mom was absolutely terrified. She didn't want any part of this at all. So I was told this story over and over again. By my mom I'll my my dad died pretty young my mom Kinda raised me and I heard the story over and over again. So that was the one of the first story is. Probably the first story I was actually told. Besides some other. Stories you'll for my for my grandparents who were from Poland it was go story of. A woman seen near a bridge and a magnet approached the Willie. She would ask a help to get across to the water the bridge because she couldn't the guy was pick her up carrier prosser bridges look my grandmother so. and drop her off on the other side, and then she would ask for direction that he would point in one direction she looking he's able to look back at giving directions. The girl was no longer there, and that kind of goes along with the story that you know girls can't cross running water US stores, ekapat trainer, the headless foreskin soon he was safe once he got across the river away from headless ghost. But. We know in our at least in my research ghost actually have an affinity for running water there actually seen. Near running water. So these a lot of other stories, my parents growing up on old time radio shows that were pretty scary turning out the lights just listening to it all. giant RCA big box could fedral type radio with the tubes and all this kind of had a real I guess it. Kind of input to me to later explore this area as I grew up. Interesting. Yeah, and I definitely want to get back the Resurrection Mary at some point because I had her on my list because that's one of the most famous ones in Chicago for sure. But back to the Ghost Research Society here for a second. So you're almost going on fifty years is that right? Yeah next year it'll be forty six years of research in the city in the suburbs. I mean you know that's for fashionably I guess you'd call that you know. You. More like intensive research in the I've always had an interest going way back like I say childhood. So I wasn't you know exploring goes back then was just caring about them. Kind of getting my my my sights set on what I wanted to do you later on life. So I mean. I was a chaplain assistant in the army from Nineteen, seventy, two to seventy four. Now, often talk to the chaplains about ghosts believe it or not no. Some of them with with tell me to stories. No, some some some of the chaplains were a bit more pious. Now's raised Roman Catholic. They they didn't say much about that. But then some of the younger ones that were a little bit more down to Earth with Tommy Stories and this is backyard seventy, two to seventy four sought music even before I started. Doing South when I got back out of the service And like I say, just collecting stories hearing about stories all around the world all around the. Chicago land area thinks Chicago maybe one of the most haunted cities now in the world. And how many people are in Gory Society now. A We have about twenty people in our chorus groups. That are. Basically most of them are here in Chicago and struggle an area A number of state coordinators we have an Indiana state coordinator Missouri a California Washington State Kentucky. Connecticut. New Jersey a few others that are can't remember offhand. So we're kind of spread all over the country. We have a good core group here in the Chicago Land Area. We have regular bimonthly meetings where we get together with the group, of course now doing but soon, allowed unfortunately and then trying to go out as best as we can safely as we can. We listen pretty interesting investigations this year very, very cultured free your social distancing wearing masks in we all came. Back perfectly fine. So is a way around it just have to be terrible. What do you can't investigate as long as you're not in a crowded location indoors without any masks? Yeah. That's true. Wow. So that's fascinating. So you guys have these by a monthly meetings is this ghost hunters group and what's what's a meeting like like you set it up and you run the meeting you're like. You're some possible spots. It'd be great to revisit is there contentious how does it go around here? Well, it's generally a very open meeting like to you know I mean we have a basically a a whole. List of officers in our group, we have a secretary that takes are meeting minutes puts out. Microsoft Office. Those are very nice job. He's Just earned his master's degrees going for his PhD now. So we got some pretty smart people react three registered nurses on our on our in our group of Malo versatile emetic Cata starts off with just kind of rehashing some about the last meeting. Then going into no different things collected in different interesting emails come across Might, go over some evidence that we've had We picked up from our last investigations will play 'em. Zuma so much easier. Now you video and all kinds of stuff like that and We try to do that, and then we we have a lot of open discussion about places going to be going to in the future you know setting up. kind of a forum if you will of people and setting dates and Times on location where we investigate and. We already. Rory Planning for twenty, twenty one and hopefully, it'll be better. Than Twenty Twenty was normally we best the gate about twenty, twenty, five, thirty locations. In a year, her and that's pretty much just in the spring and summer months early, fall So let's really a lot considering that people who have a day job. So we have to kind of schedule these things on weekends so. Pretty much almost every weekend especially two, thousand, nineteen from. Late, February through middle of October was completely booked up investigations be very busy. Wow. View. Day Job currently. NAM reach fired actually I was I worked for certified grocer in style for. Thirty thirty two and a half years location. They call up a grocery, a subsidiary, and a kind of a warehouse job and they eventually They closed down I was kind of forced into retirement at age fifty six which worked out very well for me because was able to continue doing this full-time debt point I mean before that it was really you know weekends the time whatever can do during the week I was able to do so much more. From that point and really that much loss, actually a gain net income from. Pensions and retirements and everything else. So it worked out really well for me. Interesting in what he did that data job was there people your work or maybe your family members who were like man? What's Dale's really into that stuff? That's clear. Weird. It's Kinda strange. Well I made most of our would I mean most of them knew that I was very serious about it? I've been on so many television shows and television programs of very well known places. I was Oprah before she became ultra. She did a show called. Wiping on sidings. Mystery snatching calls the other side Discovery Channel episode. Destination. America I have three actually two segments that are currently being shown right on the travel channel called the world's most unexplained on Sunday nights at ten o'clock. The next one is actually be a Wednesday night ten on the travel. Channel. Talking about we go. So the White House the very first one I did earlier, this year was talking about flight one, ninety, one crashed and Chicago. Oh Wow. Okay. So that helps a year. The legitimate paranormal guy you're not just you know you don't have like. A fake site or anything like that. I haven't done this for a long time I take take take what I do agree seriously we. Of course, we try to the bunk whatever we can evidence we can weaken the bunket rocketed written a replicated. But in most cases. Will be tried to do is to. Find out if there is such thing as life after death, there is a declaration kind of paintball to as well to this field was not only to know kind of track down reports of ghost stories but the proved the existence of white becker death and I figured if you could prove that there were ghosts. That there wasn't surviving personality in some way shape or form No. Every person I've talked to the paranormal, you'll believe that there is an afterlife There is now a ghost produce energy that energy cannot be created nor destroyed changes forum. So the energy that we have in our bodies of measurable Energy and Actually Continue on after after death. That's what many people sometimes pick up with. Devices and other equipment. So it was really my idea trying to get into to prove the existence of ghosts and thereby proving distance lacked after death we have come across I have seen dozens and dozens of ghosts, shadow people we we've actually captured full body apparitions, section. Our website devoted the spirit photographs There's also a whole segment on on their about investigate ancient, we've done across the country and you can actually. Go to. Scroll down which the very long stroller scrolls on forever. And you get down to wherever you want to click on in the reports what what happened to us in very end actually see and hear. Picked up. So We've been doing this for a long time and I. think that long as I can get around now continue to. Wow and can you I guess one more thing about the club before we really get into it here is do you just allow anybody in a rigorous? Process to be allowed into the club or how does that work? Know anybody could actually join I mean. All we ask is that you know look you Basically have an interest for it No, I mean you don't have to be totally Deng. Hall. Know about I mean you don't have to be a total believer in a mean as long as you keep an open mind as all week all we ask is you keep an open mind to whatever's going on. and. The cat I've had. In my group attack people who agnostics skeptics. In some cases, they've actually became believers after being in my group and seeing things and experiencing things at location so I'll we ask you keep an open mind? s people just to send a have US. Bylaws on our on our website, which is a standard bylaws about you know what do's and don'ts and so forth. We asked people to read the bylaws not send a picture of yourself, a colored head shot, and then now with I'll interview kind of one on one. During home it basically, it's one on one usually during video face jet like this just kind of. Go over the over stuff in our in our in our by laws and kind of get a feel for what the people that are joining expect from the group and we always just everybody opportunity to join Again, when we are using having meetings down here in basement sort of speak I have a large meeting table you might see surrounded by ghosts behind me and everything. But We have to Kinda limit. US to have to Kinda, limit how many people I had an grouping anyone given time only so many people fit right in my basement. So, it's not that we're not taking everybody that we can but we kind of have to kind of put a limit on it to eventually. You know. So I don't overcrowd- my basement but. We give everybody a fair opportunity joined the group whoever wants to join. Interesting and can you explain the prep and planning a little bit that goes into a day of the field? What do you? What do we need to do say we're going tomorrow and like, Hey, we have a possible paranormal activity at this house what goes into the night before. And Well actually maybe even weeks before that, you know what I'll be doing doing research on the area you know finding God. If I have books, I have an extensive library of thousands of folks. Let's hip literally overflowed my office into the utility room into the furnace room. So it's kind of like just going crazy solve. Any books. About, a specific location of public place. if it's a private location private home in private business I will try to do as much research as I can on that area in that building at the find out what happened that made precipitated the ghost story I mean it's not always a houses are always context. Can Be the property that buildings on we call a stigmatized property there may have been say an Indian massacre they may have been a murder maybe somebody who was buried in the basement something crazy like that. So we try to talk to police go to historical societies. We go on the Internet trying to find as much information as can we talk to neighbors older neighbors in the neighborhood was very good source of information by the way kind of we're knocking on someone's door in and saying what the neighbors have those but something. Just, as simple as that so. We get all this out of the way initially to to find out what's going on kind of feel getting involved with. And then interview the people over the phone if it's. Likely a private home or private. This is where it gets interesting because. When I bring by team. They have no idea what's going not. Elect these TV shows that. Everybody knows before they get there what's going on well, I don't tell my team anything except they know they're going to place allegedly haunted. US Why keep them kind of ice colson elevators no preconceived notions of what's going on. People, all congregates they end up basement or the creepy at or something like that is still around with equipment We kind of do it in three phases phase one they walk around and teams of two one has some equipment has no. Usually with a floor plan at on the floor plan with a pick-up anything with your quicken, their own feelings, their senses. and then they will sit down in phase two, and before the clientele's us are what's going on you tell the client we have picked up. and. That's scientific because that way again, you now putting thoughts in somebody's head of what the client the set and then it's amazing I. Don't don't tell me I have no idea how it happens but you know at least eighty, five, ninety percent of the time we hit proper rooms I mean we know where it's happening and I I usually kind take myself out of that off as of the investigation can again online leading people. To specific location, I'm not I'm the one that interviews and so I kind of back off but later I get involved with the investigation part. So then the client will tell art group and then we'll. Our group will tell the client was picked up, and then you'll often see the clients is a real large because Oh, wow you up the same thing I'm picking up the same corner of my bedroom order the be. And then will you go to face three which is setting up a quick? cameras you know different devices, all all types of paranormal. Locations of that were. Kinda called that's that we both hit on. And then also places where perhaps we missed that maybe wasn't active when we were there but the client has had experiences also. WanNa. Put equipment there. We'll run some EDP sessions, other experiments and trying to get up there, and on evidence of that we'd like later them compile the evidence along with them the reports from everybody out personal counters, whatever evidence we picked up, and then I'll make another appointment usually with the client to sit down with the client and the goal for the information give them a copy of all that will copy of the report, copy all the evidence and see what they wanna go from here. Now, a lot of times people have haunted houses are more curious what's going on rather different lots of things stop me. They want to go to leak out sometimes they think they know who the ghost is. It might be uncle Henry and that march or something like that and they say, okay if it's what it is, it's OK stick around that. You don't have to get them out. Other. People are just terrified that made just want no whatever it is to leave and I'll always say new right off the bat when I talked to people I'm not a ghostbuster. You know I don't go out there and try to get the go stock. We don't do Seiji we don't do house lessons we don't do clearings weird. They're still to compile evidence to try to debunk looker natural explanations if we can, and then it's a client still needs something after that then exit suggest people that I know who are highly qualified that. All right. Let's take a quick break here and let's talk about Roman. Obviously, most guys I've tried different ways lasts longer and bad but they get about baseball saying the pledge of allegiance senior head counting backwards. From San, doesn't always work. 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You know big thing when it comes to this as a lot of skeptics. So you kind of going through that and you being the only one that knows that makes a lot sense and that sounds like the best way to do it. So that's pretty cool now as far as. That I've worked with actually passive the kind of Avian Geena one of them was they'll catch and burke was past president of the Illinois Society for Psychic Research. He was a gifted healer as well as a psychic and clairvoyant. I work with a a woman Uber Her last but she was known as a first name was trudy. She actually work with up with police missing persons cases. She worked on Yuliana child murder cases She also worked with Area. Place on the Janina Caracol Melissa Ackerman Murder. Cases. Two little girls at a later Brian Dugan was convicted of those murders and many others and I worked with her on several occasions to So the people I work with are not not charlatans they're not. Frauds fakes there are people that have a background in place I have a background in psychics, and in those cases, they don't have websites they don't have blogs, they don't have You know facebook pages and they don't promote themselves. They don't do psychic fairs. I mean they're they're legitimately legit psychics and that's what difference Thompson sometimes. Yeah. For sure I could I could you know credit abilities as monstrous in your in Your Business for sure and as far as equipment goes and detecting you know paranormal what do you value the most is at a temperature gauge is at the metal crossers is it's sound. What do you really like to see? In the exploration I guess. Why actually we have devices at? Everything from. EMS fluctuations in other words, deviation electromagnetic fields which are like. you know k. two meters in. One of my favorite tools is to try field natural meter that we actually use It's. One of the best enough devices in the market probably is the best you. You won't see allow these TV. Paranormal shows us on because it hardly ever goes off and that's good i. mean you gotTa devices that go off all the time you're looking for false positives you're looking at the environmental it's if this into the wiring something that's cutting it off especially if you're a norse. This device is not actually sensitive all to AC feels it will not be set off anything inside environment. Calm. The does go off Then you gotta scratch your head what setting device off mute had times this went on for no reason actually hit some spikes. We also use equipment that picks up temperature. Obviously we have. We have a thermal tablet picks up a large contact readings in anything else if the ghost has a sucks. Massive some some way shape or form That can be done at this device can pick up on in show up as a as a figures We also have A. Camera which is the structured licensor device seen on TV that the. Put out a invisible field. Thousands of dots and of something shows up next feel that out area they show a stick figure We've actually had those devices go off a lot actually interact with us, which is just absolutely crazy. So we have a lot of visual stuff, we use a lot of a nice shot cameras, full spectrum cameras. We use a lot of real time devices to get responses in real time we used to go spots use of the obelas will use on the mini portal I have. An AM sweepers I have. One application that that very confident works really well is the fast box. And we've have actually got just incredible evt's and direct responses in full full full sentences coming up right after we ask questions We also have devices that pickoff sentences. Oh. Yeah. Absolutely you example We were at a D-. Geologist tastic factory, which is Elgin Illinois. It's a place that used to have a cell L. A.. Casas obviously. On Halloween, addressed it up as a kind of scary you know. Walk Through Haunted House that people can get Jesus scared out of. And So we were using this ls camera, which again picks up, you know stick figures in different things that. Chopin been mapped out areas. There's a few fuse box on the wall that was not hooked up to anything at all. It was there for effect, it had like dripping blood and so forth, and one of my members who was using device at look at that there's a figure touching that of that box he sees is right on it. saw immediately I said, well, if you're that if you're next at box, why don't you turned out switches on which I know you? Hooked up to anything you know turn on those switches. In. The response it came through the box was it doesn't work. Wow. which it's surely doesn't work. We write a cemetery in on Gosh Indiana call. McConnell Hey cemetery. Investigating as part of a beaten briefed them with two smaller cemeteries on the property. And all the was was assigned. There were no tombstones at all. It's all like. Airy asked a question by the sign. How many graves are here? There are no markers few seconds later avoid comes through with shows more than one hundred. Wow. That's I could go on and on and on a direct responses, full sentences that come through there and just amazing We were at the battlefield cemetery, which is part of the Blackhawk wars up in around Kent. Which is northwest of the city of Chicago and this was a skirmish that claimed the lives of. Up Twelve militiamen that was twelve markers lined up there. So we were doing EDP session right there. And we turned onto the box and sometimes a lot of garbage comes through. Sometimes we get responses really depends all of a sudden all of a sudden, a clear blue sky it says honey you do. So, how do you do? And then right after that, it said. Twelve remains Remains a twelve. which are right next to us they were lined up in a row twelve to stones. And the the gentleman we were investigating again, Norville who runs a group called Dan norcal project. He. expressed. His face was priceless. What he heard that Chauncey of the Fast Nevada so We use devices that pick a temperature we picked up we actually have a device that takes up smell. Picks up hydrogen sulfide gas. Slot homes. I won't say a lot of home that would say homes we've investigated. Have all reported the awful smell like rotten ex. And it's not sewer gas I mean we can pretty much tell what's the sewer gas and whatever but hydrogen sulfide. Smells like rotten eggs. and. Sometimes, we noticed this homes that are a little bit more negatives than we would like to get involved with So we've actually picked we picked up like hydrogen sulfide detector. Out that actually picks up so many parts per million. In an environment and We've never had to go off, but we had that capability as well. So we have the sight sounds smell the feelings know pretty much we have laser grid so we can set up that show you. Something breaks through the beans of the laser actually see a shadow on our no laser grits called the to as agreed. Actually has a little screen on top of it about this big or so and if something goes through the pattern, it will actually show you on the screen the configuration of what just went through. Whether it be between Eurasian of a man and animal whatever. So you can record that with another camera then play it back later, and we just came back from a two really important investigations. This year in June, we were down in Stones battlefield the middle. Tennessee. We've until South Pittsburgh Hospital. Hales Bar Marina and rushing mountain prison all in Tennessee. Our second major trip was in August L. we went through four days in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. Including a trip to Japan hearst asylum Also Jenny Wade House in you'll orphanage. We actually have some of these devices react very strangely on the battlefield genus two laser good Showing something peary in in in the beams and. It just went away and it was just like standing there and we couldn't figure out what it was. We was just totally. Wow and you brought it up to what do you think about these hunter TV shows. Well, I mean I will say one thing. You know they. They have drawn a lot of people into the paranormal. I will give them that credit So many people that watched that at decided after watching those shows heads humping try I'll let you get involved with. So they join a group, they may start their own group. What I will say. There's a little bit bad perhaps about some of those TV shows is that their protocols methodologies complete these slogs they encouraged people to go into rooms by themselves, which is absolutely nothing ever try by yourself. We always have the partner a team you know somebody along with you even even if it's going into Washington somebody outside the doors, we've been buildings that are actually huge if you go somewhere by a soft move on a set of stairs. No one's GonNa know where you're at, you can be line here for hours. And other reason if you're if you're in, if you're by yourself and you see something, it's just you. Not. Your partner that may have also seen as well. So of ways what they do some of the ways that they they hold the digital recorders in their hands instead of putting on a flat surface, you actually part noise to a record or by moving around on your hand, not doing it purposely, but just by moving around. Hold it still, I. Don't suggest people doing that they. There are a lot of their methods in the way they use a quick but unfortunately. And in some cases, unfortunately, they they do fake some of their evidence to I'm sure bucked up. There are good, very good and bad. I mean I I watched the show is pretty much for entertainment purposes. Only I watch him for really two reasons for where they go and what kind of equipment they're using. So there there's always new equipment coming out all the time currently I have over fourteen thousand dollars worth of ghost hunting gear. Collected over the years us in very very scientific stuff that you can't find any more places like A. We bought a lot equipment from a place called digital dousing digital dot. com. A Bill Chapel. was really a genius in in devising. Devices specifically for ghost research and collecting evidence when I started. There was nothing like that I started with a cassette tape recorder, a thirty, five millimeter camera, and my emf device was compass. You've got accomplish point to true magnetic north unless it comes in contact shrug magnetic fields so I mean. Throughout the years off we adapted to click that wasn't necessarily used for the purpose of. No ghost research to to to use in our feel and then now there are so many different websites out there. Dave, Juliana run a great website cost ghost hunting store Purchase a lot of grey saw from his side picked up a lot of really great. Stuff from him in work with him. Several Times. A great guy has one of the greatest websites I think called. SHADOWLANDS the shadow lands dot net soliciting all across the country of up places that you can go to see now ghost ghost locations. And what about Ouija boards in Lake off psychics enforce it tellers. Attend to buy into that or. While we. Basically. We is actually two words. It's the French and the German word for Yes we and Ya. Ya for German. So as we Joh-, actually and What I tell people about the OUIJA board is that. Probably stay away from now reachable it's just compressed what? Is, what you're trying to do with the board however, that could be dangerous You are opening doors the you're opening up dimensions, the other side you're communicating spirits and. There is a proper way to open and closed session in the bottom of the board is a big worthy socio by. So you're supposed to close the board by saying there by or what often happens is people. Either have obscenities coming through maybe they'll. Let's hear you'll see shadows in the room noises. Making A. Movie by itself and they get freaked out and they just leave what they've done is open that door. But they never closed it. And My? What happens is A lot of times. Bucknell where a lot of times. Lotta Times. What people do with these divorces that never closed the doors and what happens is later on. Problems in their homes or businesses or whatever the case may be. So I was tell people close. I don't even use divorce. I mean I did it one time as an experiment for a television show that was actually hosted off People Mitch apology who was the guy from the X. Files Ball headed moulders boss, and we went to a place called the caliber in Chicago on Dearborn Street and I never touched aboard other people did I was there with clipping to see if we can pick up anything and of course, nothing really happen. Things aren't always happened on when you want them to Darlene always tell people be careful what you get involved with Psychics, seances, you boards, automatic writing rituals, smudging cleansings, things of that nature I've seen so many people. Goto location where there's activity. And What I what I often suggest night just my suggestion. Is that when you start a group or you become part of a group. You should choose a path you're either GONNA be in there for the research the investigation scientific. Or. You're going to be on the site again. Psychic and could be more intuitive. To being more no cleansing and removing stuff we shouldn't try to do both best. My personal can but a lot of people do both and they may go to locations where there is activity going on and all right away they'll start sprinkling holy water all over the place. Well, I mean Hollywood is really a Catholic you know ideal, right so if If the ghost is not Catholic. Like I say, what are you doing? This, throwing them are at me. I mean bigger just surviving personality same thing which would smudging which you say you'd be burning stage right and you're kind of using ephedra to Google. Clearing, up the room with sage. Well, that's a native American Indian custom. So what the goal is not a native American. Indian. What are you? going. To say again, what are you doing with sage now I mean it can in some cases I believe. Clear out some energy. That might be kind of. How bad but a surely not going to get rid of a ghost I? Mean there are those have their own personality if they their own risk free will if you if you? No matter speaking? If they don't want to leave. There's no much. You'll be able to convince them to leave now most ghosts. Don't realize if they have passed down because violent or untimely debt. So in some cases if you're able to. Convince the ghosts? That they died. And to move on not side reach out to friends and loved ones on the other side to cast over. Very often. Impel. Don't to the lunch. You've always heard that the light. It's like in the older got a little tiny psychic woman. There their pieces around t and delight. Voice this my impression of her. Yeah. I. Think of it this way, and this is my theory beat might be totally off base on this. This is my theory. We know what does look like okay we've seen them. seen pictures of them. We've seen videos we've seen in books, magazines, Internet, whatever. Okay. We have no idea. How we appear to a ghost. Until. We become. So I. Mean for all we know because we're still living person. We might look like a huge white right energy. So I saw a laying the spirit to go to the light which might be telling us to golden attach itself to the nearest person that sees Or hang around that person because that's the white light. Okay Now, you know you've heard of people going near death experiences they go through a tunnel light. They see a brilliant bite lex now that that may be. But that's not sane as trying to tell those to go to the light is better off to say we use psychics. I've been involved in with psychics when they've tried to clear homes I've kind of step back and that's watched them work and just kind of we have our weapon there and they just try to convince them that they're dead to move on to reach out to friends and loved ones that might be waiting on the other side. And then usually not all the time but usually not. The activity. Gone All right. So along, we're going to stop it right there. We'll be back tomorrow with part two with Dale the. Ghost Hunter.

Chicago Dale Kes Ghost Research Society murder Bill Chapel. Indiana Chicago Land Area US research assistant Martin Martin Carl Dad Elsa Oaklawn investigator Scotland willowbrook ballroom CO founder main Resurrection Cemetery
Canelo's win over Callum Smith, GGG over Szeremeta, Errol Spence and Teofimo Lopez updates, Final UFC 2020 Card + More

THE FIGHT with Teddy Atlas

1:30:53 hr | 4 months ago

Canelo's win over Callum Smith, GGG over Szeremeta, Errol Spence and Teofimo Lopez updates, Final UFC 2020 Card + More

"Welcome to the fight with teddy atlas presented by dynamic striking. I'm ken ride out. Joined by hall of fame or teddy atlas in cova destroyer higher feeling teddy. Thank god most support my family. My family is good to two grandchildren. My daughter my wife my son in law. Everybody's talks so they'd thompson. The knee immunized them all wherever they liked it or not. Yeah sure do. I'm just staying for their own. Gooden everybody's filled better still low tired but all this stuff is gone past the difficult parts of and just as you know. Feel grateful that everybody's ok in grateful to the people out there too can be honest All the people out there that heard about it. When when i mentioned it on the last podcast and and set down well wishes said thoughts that press to be my family vivo. The social media in ways. That i still don't understand what all to the podcast. I really can't tell tell everybody out there once. I appreciate it to know that you can't about and there's so many good people out there thinking about so anyway. I just want to thank everybody for that. Thank you guys thank you can. I know i heard you back a little bit jack to carry me. Hardly saw take you. You showed up every day and played her like a true champion. well ted. We've got a lot of action to cover from this week and it was Story of the weekends. Probably the good the bad and the ugly and let's jump right into it starting on friday night with a triple gca meals a mehta fight. I know you've got a lot of opinions on this one so before i spoil the party. I'm going to turn it over to triple. G gets the late stoppage. I was hoping he'd get out of there earlier. I had the under in the fight. But like i said i know. You've got a lot of thoughts on this one so hit what are you got. Oh i mean what do i start. I mean so people say teddy you still with the negative. The positive you're still with the in between i just saw truth. That's always a good place to start another fraudulent another fudge alert number one mandatory contender. How do we get to these guys. That's again the truth is like cog loyal member yet to he was sick. Your parents made you take cod liver oil. Can you didn't like it. You know i. It was nasty. But you know what it make you feel better at the end it helps and the truth is we can get there can make you feel better can help it can help you understand things and first of all the way these organizations would have you wanna call organizations to make a lotta money that foul that rate guys they to get into the top fifteen you can you can now play you can do business you gotta be in the top fifteen and to do that you gotta you gotta do kind of like what your father did when you were a kid and you went to a game and he you know he had paid maybe ten dollars for the ticket so it wasn't the best seat but you got to the game and you went to the game and you add the game and then all of a sudden he sees somebody sees the right guy you know any shakes hands with room but it's you could say that it's a it's one of those different kinds of handshakes because the head goes an in slides out and you just noticed something you notice your dad did something and then all of sudden that guy says follow me and you see changes your start walking towards the front everingham back so many memories for me of like everybody buddy two seats down there anyone going to use those seats made it is okay all of you everybody else out there. I haven't thought about that in ages that will follow along now they are can follow along with us. And hopefully that's why they watched shock and ugly why they enjoy show and so you you get closer and closer and you say wow. My dad got the best cease. Look at this seat. Wow and the other guy is you. Keep watching his hand. After the handshake it goes into his pocket and then he walks away and little shake. And there you are you got to seek what that's how it works. Can some things. Don't change a lot and says same thing the only difference instead of shaking a guy's hand to give them the payoffs. You're you're buying ad you you go. You're going you pay for of their your send the donation to one of their programs. They all have programs different programs and they're pretty nice some of them and you send a check x. Goes to the program. Why goes to well you guess where the white goals and then you know again. It could be advertising. It could be to go to seminars conventions that they want everybody to go to. They love a good convention. A good boondoggle. That's all and then you guys in the top fifteen and then once you in the top fifteen well was you deserve to and not as long as that. Currency was good currency. Didn't turn out to be made you know inya xerox machine somewhere right. you know. it's it's it's good while you're in the top of team and the rules work where i come first serve whoever decides to fight and other top fifteen guy. They become the mandatory. Yeah it's that easy so your number fifteen and you fighting over fourteen and you are the first ones to say we're fighting over fourteen. You become the mandatory you. Can you move into a slot where the winner becomes number one. Maybe number two. If you that won't if you that low a little higher you've become the winner of those two six fighting nine or whatever those two guys become the mandatory if they were the first ones to jump in there and you got a lot of different funding looking mandatory guys. That shouldn't have been in the top fifteen to begin with and now they're mandatory and some of you get lucky and some of them are deserving. Most of them are a lot of learning at a lot of lately. Haven't been and sheremetyevo for triple tree trust. I hate the now to kid kid from poland. He's undefeated but my god of you're looking at the guys that he's fought. Yeah you'd know why undefeated pretty easily. Because they were the guys all shows that walked you down with. Your father gave you that safe to say that's those opponents. What pretty much pretty much. That's excuse me so. You have another case another reason to watch this show at least get educated a little bit in those areas because sometimes i don't follow social media so you guys out there. The good people. I hear about daikyo coupla. Show your good the ones that hate a little bit you just having a bad day you having a bad day i get it and you've fans and you're gonna say you don't you only wanna hear you want to hear but again it's like taking cod liver oil sometimes genetic. I know you don't like it yet. Needed sometimes you're gonna because they can make a little better in certain areas if you wish to be better and to be more knowing of certain things unless you don't wanna know but this that was a joke and for me. It's hard to gauge you. Because i know a lot of the fans you know they're going to i get you're going to get your pump comes on. I wish i had pompoms by daughter. Full disclosure. i thought about this last night. And the wonderful thing where you can order. What is that called can amazon. Yeah you have something else and they bring it right to your house. They didn't get here yet. We don't they be before the show. So i gotta be honest. You're going to see it guys. Look forward to down the road. Donald ford to down the rocks. But i got pompoms come real. Tom's and i think i wanted to write. I think i got to sylvan. Read and and if i had them i'd be doing right now can't pompoms because it's pomp time because all the fans i get it com. Tom get your pumps yet your plums out and you wanna know grace you wanna go nuts triple g back you know he. He looked like marvelous. Marvin hagler whatever this can we. Can we put the pom-poms down just for one second and just a little bit just for a minute. I know you don't wanna live where i live. I have to live in a place called real film. I see i got ready. I put everything i. That's what i live. Everybody one hundred reels though. Okay in real. We don't have pumps okay. We don't have pounds were we. You know we got. We got street lights. So you can see things you could go outside and you can see woods real. And they're very bright streetlight so you can really see everything that's out there. Everything gets eliminated and you'd be able to maybe too bright. For some some instances. Yes yes because we we wanna while we'll get somebody wants to the neighborhood with glasses on. We shoot them out. We we tell them know. You can't wear glasses in this neighborhood. You have to the app deletes. You have to leave. You have to take those classes on your have to see the light you have to see. The light is part of the rule of visiting real so unreal. We see what the meta server matter was and we look into things in a different perspective with context context where we say. Wait a minute triple dri look good but with hope with what and then we examined it a little further. He looked taking that away with the punt on. I get it but with a guy that you could do anything you wanted to. Can i still look good for a few minutes. Maybe on heavy bag. I was just gonna say to you. You should see me hit heavy bag teddy when it's not hitting me back. Everything is perfect and flawless punches. A fly in from everywhere. And that's what it looked like. What triple suga ray writer right out. That's okay sugary right out. I've seen guys. I've seen them. It looks like and but the only thing is most people don't have ever less written on your usually a really going to get into real them will you. Don't want ever less on a full at nine real. So that's number one and number two his the question for me because we really do x ray these things why you watch the show with you watch. We're going to x ray. We're not just gonna again. We're not gonna wear the pom-poms as commentators when be shows. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna we're gonna look we. Don't worry about getting fight. That's for sure we don't worry about that. We don't have that angle by we. Just worry about telling you guys what the truth is what we know to be the truth from reality from experience for now from behind the scenes so now the only question now is to me that it become a point where triple g started to carry him because it looked like he started on his punches. It wasn't troll full and he's doing anything thing we wanted and it almost looked like he was character so the question for me was was. You tried to go working now. Knowing that he had it his way and there was no danger. Normally this danger inside that ring there was really relatively no danger or was he not able to get rid of this is for the governor and again real what because at that point it became a point. Two two three four hours. Whatever it became a point where you know what triple cheese back to what we want him to big what the fans want to be while we've known to be you know at this point in his career will not sure if he is and we have doubt that he might not be there but if he is he's supposed to get rid of this guy he's supposed to get rid of this guy he's the both run them over like a like a monster truck would run over volkswagen. He's one of them over. I know you do with good form but you gotta run them over. You gotta get rid of and along. The fight went on and on listening to these commentators. And it's like elvis concert shrieking like like making noises like oh e all we have to. While i was like wait a minute i miss salyers. Am i maybe. Maybe i'm at a concert here. Maybe i'm at the old beatles concert. We went back into the time machine and the kids are screaming for the beatles. I i didn't see the screaming because again the longest went. I'm like okay. Look good but now it's time to get rid of the guy and he's still here and as he carried them. I can't give a real grade. The way i wanna give a great because i love his carrying them or if he just doesn't have the capacity to really get rid of the way shirt right now even though he's dominating so all of those things i mean all of those things where you're going to look at it in with some kind of prop perspective proper context to what you're looking at. You know what it would be like. Can it would be like for the fans. Listen to me guys. It would be like just for a second. Turn off the fans stuff you know. The fan is fanatic. I understand and yo- loud to escape to where you want to escape but for one minute turn by dow on it just for a minute and imagine you will watching the great michael jordan and you wanted in your mind now to see now if michael jordan could come back and be competitive with lebron. Because that's what this is about. We really want to see. If triple we cut to the chase. We want to see if he can be competitive with canal. That's what it's all about you. Could you could go sideways this way that with. That's really what it's about. It is point in their lives. This point of being a fan of triple chief for the most part you wanna know kennedy. Still be canal. Can you in there can he. Can he get that third fight. I know it's going to be the best. It'd be champion again. But you wanna know the way the gorilla measuring your real yardstick. You real fun now for measuring it as canal. Can he be there at be canal. Can he still be those kind of fights and so if you wanted to do that. And you don't say what. Michael jordan the same thing to see if he could be competitive with lebron. You wouldn't put them in a one on one game with the kid in elementary school junior high school. You wouldn't do it but that's what they did that. Kid all the heart in the world. I give all the credit in the world but he was an elementary school guy that was in there with a hog graduate. He was he didn't belong to that. So if michael jordan's played a junior high school guy dominates. What are you going to say. He's ready for labron. No you say he beat it through high school guy. Well that's all. I'm saying honestly as that. Look at who beat and if it was michael jordan going back to that example i think is a good one if it was michael jordan. If he didn't blow the guy out in four minutes and get to the score of whatever the the ultimate scored to win the game was if he didn't do it within minutes you would say. Wait a minute michael. Has we gotta dig twice about this now. And that's all. I'm saying he should have done it faster. maybe a little cleaner as should know when to the point that it went to where the guy they have to stop them on a stool. I know that was a terribly miss. Just one sided fight fiasco but those are the elements that i just mentioned are the elements that of to grades. Something you know. That's what you get graded on. That's how you grade salt if you put a tested your your teachers aren't going to say you dress. Nice coming to school today. I'm going to give it an extra twenty points you know what your you you. You're a nice kid And i. I know that you're good kid so i'm gonna give you an extra fifteen points to that. No you get graded on what you put on that people what you're capable of what you show as how great it for more those elements and that's the way i saw it. That's the way i saw it tripled dri you could say go go gaga. Get the pom-poms if you want but look at all aspects of it go to real ville just four minute. Don't wear sunglasses. Well one guy that got. A dose of real villa was triple g. Promoted fighter also trained by jonathan banks ali medoff in against carlos gongora from ecuador. Both guys undefeated gongora clearly brought into being opponent but made miscalculation they brought him in on three weeks notice from ecuador allegedly hundred ninety pounds when he got the call for the fight. Got down in three weeks to one. Sixty eight to make the limit elliott. Medoff had him in trouble in the second round had him on queer street hit him with a couple of equilibrium. Shots hurt again. Maybe in the fifth but around eighth round gongora wasn't going anywhere and started to turn the tide and slowly. Slowly like to use your analogy. The tide just kept rising and in the twelfth round. Gongora scored a savage knockout. Knock them out. Clean uppercut awesome. Fight incredibly entertaining fight. I don't think it was meant to be that entertaining and this is one of those ones where it's a regular occurrence in the ufc. But my god what a what an entertaining awesome fight. it wasn't even close to the coleman. There were two fights between this in triple g with that could have been two of the most boring fights i've ever seen but to go from this ahkmadov fight and gongora fight to those other two such a contrast but what an awesome fight. I know you had a chance to watch what we takeaways there. Oh you hit on now. This is what boxing should be two guys with a chance to win and sometimes to guy. You don't dig. S chance wins because he always had a chance. Because you know how to fight the south pole gora he was. He was better technically ahkmadov. He was physically stronger bigger More aggressive and he got the edge early as you said look like it was going to be wipe out for him. Possibly but when you're not a fight that's the great savior you know. That's the great ex- fact you supposed to fight and dov You know maybe they should spend less time on his physical training and more on his technical training and the truth is the truth because gongora had of technical training. He was the more complete. Fight a southpaw. That could cause a problem. I get it but on top of that. He was better defensively. He was better technically Ed to his credit he never panicked. Never fall party acting like fight. He behaved like when the test came. he was a fight he never lost his cool nevertheless his faith. That's what box teachers out there. Never lose your faith. People never lose your faith. You could have a bad rally. Get dropped delusional belief in what you had going in. You believed stay with the police and it didn't let aguadilla take that belief away from reminded me years ago thirty years ago. So can i was in miami beach training of fighter i trained simon brown welterweight champ of the world down there and but then after that i went back to miami beach again dirty thirty five years. I don't know how many years ago. And i train. Crystal super middleweight. Champion while from france and we will trade him for a fight there and while we were down there we will trading the state played trade. Simon brown in the great old doesn't exist anymore. It's condominiums now. But in the great old fifth avenue jim Miami beach. It was the gym where muhammad ali came out of. We're a little gundy. Had that jim and he any yard brought up. He developed my alley in his early stages in edge. Jim so i've you know special place a place to be and i'm there at one of the historic wanted the legendary guys from years ago fourteen forties even the dirties forties who is a great lightweight champion. He probably sold out madison square garden more than anybody else in the history of garden. He was an entertaining fighting You know that just by saying that. He sold out the garden so times. It was a lightweight champion. the world. tough tough as nails bowl. Jack and he was there he was older now but he he would. He was there. And you know that meant something to me to be able to meet a guy like that from that era from those scrape fights and he fought them all for bob montgomery for william's some of the greatest lightweights time and we talk what they have to one of the workouts. I love to talk to these guys. I felt that it was a privilege to be able to talk to them and hearing their stories and their history and share it for minute and he started telling me teddy when i fought bob. Montgomery he said the time that i lost reform. Four times he wants to relaunch to me was a great way chip and he said fight that i fought him and he's watching me. It was funny was lots train to your soul and the reason we got into this conversation was i was told you also too short up to shots a little bit but he come a little more concise and after the workout. He says teddy. When i when. I lost bob montgomery afterwards i had to think why i lost and i realized why loss and he the guys lows. They've put things in very simple terms he said. I lost because i was doing this while he was doing list. Thang big goal ban right there right there in life it. That simple sometimes sometimes. It's more complicated than that. He was doing things. Well concise technically better montgomery punching straighter and he was getting in between bowl. Jags wider punches. And so that's what does fight reminded me off. That gore was doing this while ecuador was doing this and that was it at the end of the day that was it at a beautifully placed uppercut as you alluded to a beautifully placed known. What punches drove the right times. A better way a better array of punches a better repertoire. More sophisticated more dimensional. The other guy was one dimensional. That's what that's what can call us and the funny thing is in barging your book by the covid life safety of boxing. He looked be guy looked less physical guy right anyway is less physical guy but what it came down to. It was the more physical guy areas that matter. We're physicality is really judged properly in this way and in a way of using whatever you have physically to the utmost to the extreme to the best that you can use it being taught how to use it and that gave him the power even though the other guy was the bigger you know stronger guy so that was a perfect example. All you people out there. Perfect learn what you gotta learn. You know it's not just about being the fastest the strongest you know or even a even a number one in your class. Don't get discouraged. There are other ways to catch up. Yeah there's other ways to catch up that's available. It's can do genetics lundu who your parents were. You know how small you are how you didn't drink enough milk when you a little whatever. You didn't eat enough me you know you're you're to the in your cops of your pants when your parents won't look at you know because you didn't wanna eat dan berga whatever it was a but you can make four now the right attitude the right work ethic with facing things you can make yourself stronger in other ways hit by being disciplined by being honest with yourself by facing things and other people avoid. So that's what that's part of. What gore did and. That's why he has said so properly. Aw he pulled off the upset and probably with all this technical skills living in boston titletown is probably what put him over the top of course. Of course i'm sorry. I let go. I should have started with that from boston by way of ecuador. We've adopted him now. He's officially a boston trip. And you do you know that. I read somewhere and i don't know if this is accurate. Sorry for the lack of time. I didn't have enough time to fact. Check this but i don't even think he had a promoter. Teddy i think they picked him up. They clearly thought they would get an opponent. And i read today that he's Now signed with maximum boxing. Any picks up a world title for his troubles. Good so good. Good story That's the other thing. I wanted to just quickly say is i mean matchroom is they. They seem to be taking over in boxing. I mean they. They're put on any hearn and we'll get into a little bit more later We'll we'll talk about this in detail later but he had some of the Top ranked guys on and interviewed on zone broadcast which is super had standing. And we'll get to that in a minute but first let's get to Unlike this fight which on paper looked to be a one-sided mismatch cannella was in tough on paper against liam smith ring magazine had a couple of other titles one or two By all accounts look to be pretty competitive fight. Oddsmakers had relatively close in the grand scheme of things. What on fight night. It was anything but close. It was almost another version of a guy just hitting a heavy bag. I mean lamb. Smith coming into the fight was very well respected got sorry callum smith not lamb. Smith is brother calum well regarded well respected god canal in my view. And i'm curious to hear your your opinion on this because that's what everyone really wants to hear has cannella to me is powerful pound past. I mean what he did to smith was just. He humiliated him the whole fight. He took them apart in the twelfth round. It looked like he. I think he broke his arm. Buddy damaged his tricep just like wailing on his arms. As smith kept out high guard and as tricep after the fight was all swollen. His face was punched in. I mean he did a number on them. Cannella was in complete control. And what struck me as one thing that really struck me as canellas comfort in the park and i mean he was slipping bob and weave and it seemed like smith could have had a hammer in there. There was nothing he could do to canal had no respect for him later in the fight he was just doing what every wanted to. But to hear your take Canal oh i mean unbelievable performance but did you. Do you think it was more canals. Performance audio thinks. Smith just was way outmatched. Well you've got to do the job you know. There's there's an old saying in a world in world competitiveness of the world's function of doing things no matter what job you got to get the job done. You still gotta do. What's gotta be done. You know whether the football team out there with a team that Supposed to bid to run the ball on you still got a block. You still got to take a assignments is still gotta hit the halls. You still got. You still got to do what you're supposed to do. Even though you're supposed to do on paper and the opportunities and the advantages that is still got to go do it. And he went. did it. methodically broken down. But again real though we live in real and this should not be compared to the opponent of triple j the opponent triple g not not gonna guy but just to make again the the proper comparison to get you know. Get to a strong point away. It was like being in a store with a mannequin. I mean instead of with a salesman. I mean when you go in there sometimes. The mannequins look real. They do and you get closer you say. Oh i'm sorry. I thought your throat draw person a mannequin so triple automatic Again tough kid everything else. I hate to have to go down that road to make comparisons to make a clean the make it clear cannella matic. This guy was the guy who had a world title. I said on all podcasts that the biggest difference was going to be one of them was going to be the difference of opposition. I mean cannella. Everyone obviously who did this guide fight. You know he. He beat he beat george groves but see. I never looked those guys over. I'm sorry i'm not you guys over there. By brothers sisters from across the pond but some of them the european guys digits serviceable guys tough there serviceable murray good example grove. Tough guy but there they'll just serviceable guys that certain level. They're not at that next level. They're not just not that. I never thought george groves was at a world calibre levels so when they say well he beat georgia grow. I jones groves had one leg in the shadows of his career. He was he was a little used up. But i never told. Was that lova guy. I sold the guy's beating over there a little different than sometimes the caliber of the we want to really be able to judge guy on and so i have my real doubts about just changing the level of competition. Just like when you watch these games was. It's college football college basketball. Whatever you see these teams that are good and the good that beaten everybody. But then they go to the next level to play alabama to play ohio state and clemson and then all of a sudden. We say whoa. Whoa too perfect examples this weekend. Jaw notre dame getting blown out by clemson and florida getting destroyed by alabama. The florida made a late surge. But those guys like those teams clemson. And i think florida's a top level team at least densely offensively. I really do. I picked a helluva game. But i'm just saying that you get to then that different level and he hadn't been in that level smith and then so that was my big thing going handicapper for the good people out there who say look big difference a level competition yet break difference. The guy has the physical assets. The guy's got the belief in know guys got the guy's got the belief Smith being the guy undefeated world champion. He's got all that but reality can hit your fast. And he's six three. As i said he you know he's got good length. A fundamentally knows what he's doing but it's a matter of being able to execute at that level and he wasn't able he wasn't able to take those physical he wasn't able to make those physical asset steady ad that we all thought give a maybe a little bit even though i didn't think it was gonna be competitive but we all were hoping it would make competitive because those physical assets but that was against the develop level bob position on a different stage. He didn't have the ability to take those physical assets. The length height punch a little bit. Technically knew what he was doing. He didn't have the ability to execute those things on this stage with his opponent at this level it out the ability to make that equate into what look like on film with other guys that was dead the best way to put it. You know he he does again. Smith was not but it was still a still beloved. That the guy that's triple j. Hey he's a guy that still won't be able to win fights. He's a guy that he hung a lot of hot He he did land a couple of shots. I took notice of. Because i want to see the everything. He landed a few shots on kamilo. Close got a great shin. He if he leaves those shots on less guys he would've affected them and he landed a couple of good shots. But kamilo is four package. He's got the believe has got these technically got data. He's got the talent is gut. The you know obviously has the experience with top guys. Not so he knows that he can always win at that level slipped when they're not knowing and that's a big thing not to know and again he wasn't able to use those physical attributes that we could look. I don't paper on sold with other guys. He wasn't able to to play on the playing field that he was now on you. And that's the credit to canal and so but again i'm repeating myself. Do not take that this guy was a mannequin. He wasn't this guy was legitimate in the realm that he was legitimate that he could beat certain guys. He just didn't belong in this room but there was much more than he canal was in a real fight. Bye bye bye. Light years in comparison to what triple gene was in because of cannella do what he was supposed to do. He could get caught. The other guy could do certain things. There was something to overcome for. Kilani overcame it quickly but there was really melting. Toll comradely honestly. You could make a lot of mistakes. If you will trickle g that night and you still could survive it. You still could be okay and let's touch the truth. And that's the difference are having said that. I knew the fight was over in of stars around and i started tweeting out there and i said earlier on this is going to be an awful long fight because the one thing. That's not supposed to happen just happen. Cannella guide inside with the much tall along a guy to easy just to easy so easy way to back. In the days when the great wilt chamberlain was played. Basketball was the biggest band of basketball can In the game if you able to lob the ball into him without a vietnam the way without being blocked without it being some deterrent to get. The bullet told who's going to be a long night. You know who's gonna win and because you couldn't let them get the ball underneath the bass could be in a bigger guy like that. Well the same thing. Year soon. As i saw cannella walk in so easy so easy i said oh forget it sites i know we gotta keep going down the rock fights over. You can't let them get into one thing he's got to do is keep outside maker. Pay a price to get in. And he wasn't able to do that he i think was frozen a little bit. I think it's also. I think it's a combination of things again. You want to get trade machine. I'll give you x ray machine to the fans out there. He looked great but the machine. The cat scan cannella was painted. It was all the things you want to bake for. Maybe a little too patriot after a couple of rounds so the point where he may have it did matter but he may allow smith to to start to believe that at least he could exist. He gets stay. He could survives. He could belong a little bit and where he would have pushed the pedal to metal a little sooner a mighty actually stopped smith before smith gained a little conference or started to believe that i can at least exist. Where what. He wasn't sure if he could do that early. If you would have pushed the pedal to the metal put the guests on a little. He might advertisement a little earlier. But at the end of the day dominant performance dominant performance. And also also just i have to. I have to be fat. I was saying when they were going crazy over. Triple g like like kids. had beatles concert. can you come down a little bit. Just a little tiny bit please. When i when when camello did would you supposed to do. Got away from a punch. And wow. oh my god look at that. They tacked wasn't exactly promote whittaker. You know it wasn't exactly floyd mayweather you know dealing with roberto durant off combinations or something like that really really not for nothing. There was single shots sometimes two shots. Okay he got away for most of them not all ba. Most of but please. He's supposed to get away from that again. Put it in context a little bit. Just just i know it's hard i know but i got here. Gotta be okay come back come back come back. Come back to one hundred real. Visit one hundred every once in a while. Just just come down to a little bit really but because it wasn't marvin hagler like i said earlier. You know throw punches out. So he got away here but flees giddiness. That i mean come on you lose your credibility of too low. You know who who wasn't in. Who wasn't giddy was a on. The on the call was dimitrius android. They went to him for a minute and he said contrary to what the all the fanfare from the other announcers was. andre goes. well clearly smith in here in a win dead they were all kind of like what the hell are you talking. But he's like he's not doing anything to win this fight. there's he doesn't have anything that's threatening. He can't win the fight he doesn't want to win the fight. He's not here to win. And i thought that was just. It was such a stark contrast to the to the commentary that was going on prior to him and immediately got away. Those listen i. I don't completely agree early on. Maybe you're not sure about it. You could start to go down. I wrote a little bit early on that. he's frozen. delights falls them. Maybe you could say that early on to fantasy. But then as the fight went on and he was he was trying to best. He could try the best that he could do at that point. So that that. I would disagree at that point. But that's remember now everybody's got a different perspective. Everyone's got a different agenda right. Everyone's set of you know. These guys are getting paid to say certain things on there. He's not getting paid. he has thing andre is. He won't some fight with canal. Could go goose got you know. So that's you know that's that's that's look at it again. That's that's here one more time. That's real at the real incentive for andre to say that is because he's looking for the fight you know he's looking for some light to go on him yeah he is a business family. He wants to fight the goose and make that kind of money. I can't believe gambling. I liked here. And the contrast though i liked hearing his no i got. You can't but again you know canal. I look good. One thing. I iggy did show me. He's not into same stratosphere anymore with triple she. I know that's gonna hurt a lot of the fans again out there. But i'm just say right now. He's separated himself a little bit He's he's at a highest stratosphere than triple j triple j's older we know that You know. I don't know how much he's lost from. Those tough fights that he's taking the at four hundred amateur. I don't know because you couldn't really judge from the last fight. But he. But i i don't know but i do know what i do know. Is that triple. G is not in the same atmosphere of ability at this point in his life does point of his career. he's not at the same place of capability. That could lewis. He doesn't have as much last right now. Right now i mean maybe maybe gets another fight and things change. Maybe maybe maybe but right now i would be putting him in there with triple j. I'm i would be putting a triple g in there were canal. Listen triple g right now again. Real i think that i i would. I would make a huge automatic favorite the way you might have one day. I all bow with a travel. All with an andrei while andres a very different style. I don't think anyone wants to fight them because his style and he can't get paid a lot of money with them because his style is not the most exciting. But it's it's tough it's effective. I don't know. I don't know if you could just say hey triple cheap winds would again whether it's challa whether it saw with his andrei on you know that kind of talent at the top of the division. I don't know i again. I know the fight that they all want is a big one with triple. ge canal. But i don't think goodell once that. Because i think he's kind of got the attitude been there done that moved on and he's in a good place a place where he just one another belt at one hundred sixty eight pounds got another division stone all these things and i hundred sixty pounds he he. He found a good niche. He found a good comfortable place where he feels strong. Looked great at. He put all that muscle on. I don't think he wants to take. It could be detrimental. It's not easy. I don't think he wants to take that muscle off. I know he can do. He's still young enough to do. But i don't know that he wants to take that most wall for one sixty eight and dropped down to one sixty and and especially when there's so many opportunities where i gotta say this the right way. I don't want to hurt people's feelings. But where honestly this easy fights him that are attached to belts that that people put significance in. You know whether it's whether a plant whose hundred sixty pound champ was saunders i. I don't think that threats. They got the bulk with there. Not the danger that could be out there with other fights. And i think he realizes that i think he's smart canellas people at say. Hey we could get a belt we could. We could consolidate all all the boss. We can fight those guys. I just mentioned and we we should win those fights. I'm not gonna say handily but Without too much without too much threat and maybe the best guy. They're the most competitive one. There might be better vitas. Who maybe is the most dangerous is not as good technically as the two guys i mentioned but he's physically as a big strong guy but even there big edge because he's so less experience and he's raw is a big straw raw guy. He's still got a little cabin in them. And you know Kanalelo well canal knows how to beat caveman. That's i mean. You take the club away right near. You beat the cabinet. So i think that fights not for the people that are still waiting for that ship to come back a harbor for triple j canal. I think they. I may have sale a one guy. You didn't mention. Is that wbc mandatory and you'll drink yildirim. Who the talking about cannella. Fighting in february. I mean i guess these the wbz might have blood lost if they wanna put this kid in with cannella. Because i can't even imagine this going past three rounds so the talking about that in february and the then a really big fight in may with one of the guys that you mentioned earlier But speaking about only mentioned that because we talked earlier about the mandatory i man it would be. That's not a fight. Anyone wants to see. And if i were a now on you'll you'll durham's durham's team. I wouldn't wanna see that you might want to see the payday. But that's a dangerous fight physically dangerous for this kid. Get as part of the business. They're to they're going to take advantage of what the business allows them to you. Know and take an easy one take layup take a slam dunk. You know and get paid. Get paid a payday i be. That's part of the business. One you wanna make money do with the least risk fans. Don't want that. We don't want that but that's a that's that's part of the reality. It looked with people's hearts. I'll show you how that. I'm not how i do look evenly everything. The past i. Can you know you look at duke and basketball right looking north carolina. You look at cancers look at gonzaga all the top teams in basketball in college basketball joke house festival. Well every once in a while they. They're you know they play prairie view. They play you know not code state or whatever. The only difference is prevue is gonna get punched in the face repeatedly. Well no. It's true but it's going to be a blow out. A forty point game of fifty point game. Prairie view is going to get paid for television appearance where it's going to help program and and so you're going to have to organizations are going to help them programs that still going to still going to get a section of they're going to get paid in all and it's it's business what it's allowed to figure that people should wise up to now with these some of these four jilin as reported out. I think the proper way with all the evidence of people should wise up to these fraudulent mandatory. Said say i'm not. I'm not participated. But you know i mean that's the great thing that you still have to powell's like in his country if you don't like what the politicians don't is still got the power to vote and that's you know you still got the power to voters fed by by not turning that. Tv on by turning it off. That's your vote. Speaking of the zone has picked up their game considerably. Since the beginning of kovin they were nice enough to have some of the other networks fighters on the On the cannella broadcast starting with aerospace. They did a pretty lengthy. Like four. Or five minute interview with errol spence. During which he mentioned that he didn't seem that interested now this could be just posturing in terms of negotiating the fight with the potential fight with spence which is the only fight anyone wants to see him or terence crawford in terence crawford errol spence is what i meant so it was just interview. It was just interesting to see zone actually interview. You never see that. You'll never see top rank interview. A metro guy or guy very rarely even acknowledged the other fighters aerospace during the interview. Said that you know. He wasn't that bothered. If if the crawford fight doesn't happen in that he thought it should be sixty forty maybe seventy thirty in his favor that he was by far the side. Just curious if you noticed that and if you had any thoughts on it yeah no. Of course i noticed it you know I understand offense out there. Some of them are going to say that by doing that. Maybe he doesn't want them fight because he's gonna make it difficult fans of probably gonna say these are much instead of fifty fifty that maybe he doesn't want to fight and then magic of course it got off. He mentioned that he liked the fight. Camello so so that gives even more fuel to the fire that maybe he doesn't want to call it. Fight oil dig. It could be made when he wants to be made and he's looking at his options and he's trying to you know he's trying to build those options and talking about a cannella super fight way. Retire if you could get get that fight in okinawa too big for him but you know if you stop playing with it and you start talking about it long enough on the fence and stop believing it and thought saying all i walk around sixty or whatever you know they start saying that i crunched down to welterweight. I'm a huge welterweight. I could easily by mid away Yeah then all of a sudden who knows you you could get some people could start the buy into it That that that could be a feasible fight that could be a fight And then you forget about crawford. So he's doing business a little bit dicey he's looking out for himself. Who knows who else is advising him in that direction and listen ultimately at the end of the day. Ken cloth it's not free right now. Really well really. If you're going to be fat neither one of them a free to fight each other because you Spence fences with heyman and ppc and confidence with top rank and espn. And you know. I don't think. I don't know if defense is haven in an iram they don't like each other at all. Maybe hate might be found on but for that fight that happen it would have to be such an astronomical fight of for the bulk promoters to say that they would allow them to fight each other without having full control where they could make enough money where if they lost a fight they'd still still pay off for them kind of like a may scenario where there was so much money in the universe that you couldn't say no to it in that or it's more on crawford side i guess because he's got x. Amount of months left on a contract with top rank on the last one of these signed. He got paid extra money to to renew the contract. And that's gonna run out sometime in in twenty twenty one and whether it's seven months eight months nine months whatever it is he would. He would have to wait. It seems for that to run out ways. You could welcome course asleep. The bbc make a deal with ayman where one of the fights in part of that deal would obviously be dispensed fight so right now. That's pretty much where it is. Yeah the other interview that the zone did with a top fighter which had to be wrangling. Top rank was fema lopez didn't interview with With one of the guys over there and you know again. Emphasize he was the a plus plus side. Now that he'd beat now that he's beat loma ching-kuo and be interesting to see what happens. I mean the fight that everyone wants to see. There is team molo peasant. Evan haney it will feel as a smog manage. he's got a guy named mcquarters and stay right and the good man as league guy. That's done come into the business. And he's learned the business and he's got a pretty good stable Good job with lopez and I don't i don't know that That his connections with lopez his father's involve courses matter to mcquarters Whether or not that thrilled with top rank or not. But i know that maguire is a smart guy i know he's a forward thinking guy Where he thinks a little bit like back in the day with a mayweather and an even de la hoya with it. The lawyer pave the way for you know thinking. Hey a why do i need promoter. Why do i need to give all this money to promote a when almost on now it's not like anyone has me anymore. I do my old promotion. Keep all the money and mayweather realized that and they did that needs. They made astronomical money and lopez and his people voters Quotas might be thinking the same thing. I'm sure they are to be quite honest where they can. Hey why don't we just start all enterprise. Why don't we start old promotional company. You know why. Don't why do we need to have up rank. We're at this point of stardom. Now why do we need top-ranked to you know to be taken part of the pie. That the taken so. I'm sure that some of that thinking is what is going to manifest to. I don't know it might not matter pheasants anything other than Them getting maybe some bonus money to you know to juicy juicy up a few the pot staff for for that that that they were big star. Offer them to stay over there. I don't know but those all part of the possible scenarios speaking promoters. We've got a new super promoter on the boxing scene saying nothing of his boxing skills. But jake paul calls out conor mcgregor with some viral videos I think you've had a chance to see them but talk about a new. He'll inter in wrestling parlance. This guy is like he is like getting a lot of attention. He said mcgregor's owen one as a boxer and he's to in oh and granted. He's beaten like to amateur boxers but curious. This hear your thoughts on this one. No listen just guys. Trying to use stardom in their own place to catapulted to leapfrog into another place to make big money ingenuity Taking advantage of the landscape the world that it is right now. twenty twenty The he's got forty million followers. I guess if you got twenty million forty million was the difference whatever it is i guess when you got that many follows can you. Can you can talk you. Could i mean you could talk and you can do more than talk. You can say a got forty million people that are by this Let's make it happen and you know what have done things crazy for less money when this much money. Right that's available. That's possible i. He's got the power and he did it with video games. Whatever he did. I don't even know what whatever he did with Being out there there was. There was a plan. There was initiative. I executed that plan. He took advantage of what the landscape with the environment would allow to take advantage of and he deserves credit for putting himself in that position in all the rest is up to again. It's up to the by the you know he. He got himself in a position to be a seller. Now it's up to the by it are there are no bias out there and if there's enough buyers out there and it seems like they're all with the environment nowadays where people want to. They want to go into la la land. They wanna go into this place rome at its. It's a fun realm to go into to visit that that you could say that someday you're playing video games and this thing you know your your your world renounced failure because you will you. You got twenty million followers that you you now have escape your your fence. That seemed to be around the limitations. Of what you could do over sudden there are limitations. I'm state span. I i can do all these things that i never imagined i do will pull does it. I could do it. He's my guy you know. I can take a trip with him. I could go to fantasy land with him and it's not even better z land anymore. Now the ringwood with guys that have been fighting for twenty years and that built themselves up and that had to take all that risk. And i didn't have to do that. And here i am. I'm a who's better than me laughing at all you guys. You'll you made bonomi. And look look where i am so i think there's a lot of that going on and you know again as long as there's a goto to enter to go to that place that that fantasy land i. The fans could go with them. You know what it's a door they went open is another door and they want quick entertainment. They want to believe that ever to special time attached to their guys. You gotta remember these internet guys. These kids said watching instead of followed it that said by. That's the guy just like we were young and we had baseball costs taught by god. What a difference. We had baseball cards. And we had mickey mantle. Willie mays and you know those guys that we would look for them. We would flip card for the to try to win them in between class without teaches woman. Data's without teachers did know what we were doing. It goes my fax machines. E factual sheet off. I didn't my world. This is my oh still win with evidence. That's that's teddy's world. The fax machines still exist. See i wish. I could bring that back. I wish that they could be a market for people. People that a- better than anybody else on our fax machine they could do more faxes than anybody else permitted. That i could spit them out. And i spit him out all over the universe in all kinds of different hemispheres. All over the place and there could be contest. And i could be the king of faxes. What the king of internet's right now of being to do that. Poll that guy and again. He's he's able right now to be able to take the leap into a different world a world that like. I said he didn't have to spend twenty years to have the right to get in a ring in front of millions of people and box. He's gonna pick a forty three year old guy with his backing again with all of his followers where he's going to transcend where he was and he's going to put a again. He's gonna put hope out that all the people that might be bored with what they're doing to say. Hey you know. I can i can transcend from this place this place i can. I can do that too. I could be part of that and we had our day like i said this. Is that guy. All guys with the willie mays and all those guys you know and we flipped the cards. And we you know we won the cause and we took them all and we put them away. We sell man. I'm gonna trait. Maybe i could trade this guy. I good trade off for these guys for one willie mays. I'm gonna go to school tomorrow. And that's what i'm going to do that. Well now it's done with baseball cards now. It's done with the people out there on the internet guys. That can all these and you know what it's a lot easier to be attached to them that it is really mace. It is you. Can you could be attached to on the internet in cyberspace. You can connect to the. We couldn't connect to our guys. We had to do two baseball cards. We had to do it through you know just thinking about it and and imagining that you while we we know willie mays we have is caught. Look on my windowsill. Look there it is or they got him on their computer. They got the guy on there. That's guy and i get it. I understand that's their guy time. This time i guess what does a lot of people that understand the market for this. They understand this the money and they are. You could say they're exploiting it. Whatever you wanna say but they do what people do it. Taken advantage of it making moolah. Well let's talk about the real king of promotion and that's dana white and the ufc big card this weekend. Roundup to wrap up twenty twenty awesome year for the usc good job. Let's talk about for us. Marlin varenne jose aldo jose aldo coming off three losses to probably three of the best guys in the world in his weight class and barrows steady just to super elite guys. And my god today Did they bring the heat. Awesome fight aldo. Gets a win two rounds to one. I won the first and third on all cards and lost the second on all three cards. I know you had a chance to watch it what we have thoughts. My thoughts was as always have number admiration for these guys. Total respect for these guys. It was a chess match as they gravelled for. Edges can striking was terrific combinations. You know when it was psyching out always unbelievable combinations body. Punching trona lump took trying to catch the liver. I even sent a tweet outdoor fight. That evaldo could move. That love took about two inches over to the right. He would land it on the live a and maybe that would have a great impact on barracks. But then i also sent out. A tweet can wear. These guys are so tough that the way they look at live the way they disavow frenchie eight differentiate would anything mentioned in little probably the only thing they would think comfort be the avid with onion soul without onions. All when when you grill it because these guys throw it out the window as far as what should affect you and what affects other people They they find a way to transcend that the to just flat out You know it's it's pretty amazing. It's like when you get surgery. And and they they bought out the the nerves you know you stay conscious but they they. Do i forget the procedure anesthesiologist. Yeah and instead of put you on the with the anesthesia. What they do sometimes they do. A what is it called nerve blocker. Yeah maybe it is. I knew you guys you went to college and all that you guys like this. Fall away from the biochemist. Well the internet helped but you guys like this fall away from being like bio chemistry raking molecules down. At least if i will and compared to what i am but these guys. It's like that almost like they just put a nerve block on this and they don't feel anything it was all allow anything to deter them from their mission which is to get to where they have to call wherever that happens to bake and it would become a further place. Guess what we're going to go further. And that's what's great about these guys. and so. Although was great striking of vera. I felt like real would have been served in a long fight where you need a little more time to try to wear down the legendary aldo in older aldo To to try to maybe wear down a little bit and where route maybe with more grappling As the later rounds for go on but it was a three round fight feed five minute rounds which is still extraordinary and i really enjoyed the drew jerusal. Usually i'm joined striking. I mean that's my my world. I'm looking at that and looking at the intricacies and in those facilities the both tough the guy was a little more smarter is going to have the edge. It's it's always there. It's always in the air and part of the deal. And this time i found myself in in trance fascinated with the mat. For some reason. I really did get where the drew jitsu the grappling. I'm watching them out each other. Get the raids around get position. Keep the back away from the fact and watching them say. Wow wow. this is chess on a board on a flaw and instead use using pawns they're using just rooks and knights just just a rooks knights. All the big guys. The big guy is strong. The big artillery. But it's so fragile because one will move you. Don't get your lake in the right place. The guy gets all the year one more. Liu bang that really. I get excited about it again and i just appreciate so much and i hope that i i probably served these guys by giving my my thoughts on it I really did. I really enjoyed it and as you just touched on. They been doing the right for a long time. Those guys and there was another fight to bring up that other. Fight out main event. Stephen thompson versus jeff neal stephen thompson before the fight went out of his way on area hawaii show to say he's not a gatekeeper which you could have easily put him into that category. Because he's had two title shots lost in both. Jeff neil young up and coming guy so they met up five rounds in main event. Fight is always five rounds on the ufc. Along with title fights and stephen thompson won all five rounds. Every time neil close. It looked like a stephen thompson. Just hit him with such quick hard combinations and then he would use footwork to step around before before jeff neal could answer so he was lighten him up combinations then moving off and get an imposition so jeff neal just could never get off and by the way stephen thompson. Legendary nice guy Both guys would complete gentlemen. That was a fun. One to watch but a complete domination from stephen thompson. Yes i tonight. A good game plan. He had a good fight. Planet didn't just happen. It just win because he he was. Biggie was long taller but it didn't win just because of that. It wasn't because of the way he executed because the way the plan that he had. And i appreciated that right away. And i appreciate it. Neil tuffy was but he was one dimensional. It was the south paw slowly. Strang guy wanted to get in. He knew that he had if he's going to stay. On the outside there was gonna be distance between the two. He was gonna lose. Just like if i call fight with the style. Southlake fight styles made this fight. Where in commonality with boxing. There's a lot in common in. Like i say all the time with these two sports and neil had to get close and he was looking to get close. Who's walking in the problem. Was he was coming into one dimensional right predictable way and again so the creditor thompson the at the right fight plenty knew he had to be prepared for he was told. Louis logging kept him on the outside. The pod shouted meal as he walked in one of the things. I heard neo really hard. Was it didn't come in behind the gym if we would came in like i say on espn. When i was calling fights it needed to put bugs on a windshield of thompson. Where the bloated. This way made it harmful to pick them up coming in if he came in behind. That southpaw jeb. It would made it a lot of hot up for thomson to pick them off combination the machine gun coming into podge sodom coming in but he didn't just walked in for the most part and in spots towards the us evident made a difference. You didn't do it consistently enough. And leo was council was able to control the outside Us kicks uses length. Would striking to to get to kneel before neo could get him quite frankly and to keep neil from getting into the wheelhouse that he needed to get in which was close to do damage when he did get a close on offense every once in a while. I thought that maybe neil could have done some short body shots in the morning legs. I know you did sub because you made a good point. Thompson was limping at the end. His legs swollen up. But i thought just like you know fighting fighting a guy thompson knew what he was fighting. Aggressive guy strong guy. Good striker good punch. They couldn't let him get close so uses legs as wheels to keep more pounds to control the outside and he did. Neil needed tons of what he had fun a little better that he had a guy that's gonna move do all those things. Well you gotta take their out of the thais you got to do something about those wheels because those wheels are gonna win the fight for him if if you let them keep them. So i was surprised. I didn't see more lake outs from the little more leg. Kickouts take those like away take again take some air out of the ties and some all bodywork again. It wasn't easy to get close to the body of because cops who is doing a good job control range with his length and we'll just cakes and everything else and keeping separation so there was a risk to get close enough to be able to go to the body but at least a leg kicks. I thought that could have been more lake. Gigs from neo. I'm not trying to be a ufc expert. But i know fighting. I know combat. I know i know one i know. And obviously when my is telling me and i understand the parameters of both sports. I understand the the idea of both sports what it is. It's take away the other guy strength and find the way to use your straight So i have fax machines. And i have folds just so anybody out. There doesn't think i still have out phone. Yeah i understand the the twenty first century. We're using cell phones but it's good to have a houseful. You never know every once in a while. So i just give a lot of credit to both guys chill what they always show which is sad miraculous hot and determination that these guys said it's just like out fight in boxing bay showed all the time At the end of the day again thompson added a great plan. He consistently executed moulded punching kicking using the ring. I thought also. Neil shoulda cut the ring down. Can way was followed them around just like in my sport. Boxing should've went parallel at a should've cut the rink down a little bit and he did it in one round right towards the end of the round for you guys that watch the fight. You remember that spot way. He cut the rig down close to the off any did he was successful but it was too late. It was too late and around. You should have done it earlier in around cutting the ring. Down and Shrinking octagon aloof of thompson. Did a great job again. Switching stances for more guy south for using the reign of basically kept me a one step behind him all night long. I i think that said the only other thing i would add is you touched on can and i sent a tweet out but it was just a great way to end the year for you have seat you know. Kudos to data white and his army of warriors You know he was the first really. We're going to give proper. We're going to give proper credit yet. He was the first one during the pandemic dana white and his company he did it responsibly. I wanna bring fighting back where he did it responsibly. Looking out for everyone else by finding of formula that made sense with the testing and everything else and also he looked out for his product and the fans by doing what he always does make real fights competitive matches. Boxing could learn from him I the did copy what he did again. If you're going to give proper credit it did copy what he did with how he was able to against safely create an environment for the shows. They just they just missed the boat. Boxy missed the boat on the part of putting competitor fights consistently in the ring. They when they did come back and find the formula in a bubble to do fights where Will looking out for the safety now. Everybody involved but they didn't put the competitive fights on in a consistent. Way the way you see. Did you have seen just put. They put competitive fights consistently octagon. And that's why their product has grown. That's why the company is. That's why they ratings on top right now again. The fight fans out there for me to point. They'll get mad at me. don't kill the messenger. Go go get mad at the the people dead. That are doing it that that allowing a noncompetitive fights to be made in boxing because nobody wants more competitive fights in boxing tonight though nobody but the ones that of dotted for the most part on a regular basis has been beta white in his group of warriors. Yup that's right. I think they had a record. Pay per view year this year in terms of revenue as well but teddy. Thanks for doing this. We've got one more show for you guys next week. We're going to do a breakdown of the Luke campbell king ryan garcia fight on january third. So look out for that one next week. I hope everyone has a wonderful christmas. Of course speaking of chris was a big. It's a great segue of you. Guys read is out there. You want about we because people. We've become with dune with the popular because you guys and i hope continue to where we need to do in the new year we will always try to continue to keep your confidence that will place the goal to to what some people don't want to say because maybe they have an agenda where they say. It's not good for their business. The only thing that's good for business is telling you the truth. That's the only thing that's good so it's a simple formula for us and we appreciate that. You guys have been there because there's no reason to do without you so that's part of what i want to say A tabby body and have a great new year and all that and a great holidays christmas and be safe and love each other and appreciate each other as like. I say we appreciate a families. That's what starts we appreciate you guys and We had a show where we we. Jim gray of friend of mine come on. He's a very big celebrity out there in an obviously in entertainment sports world of being a commentator and a put a book out and he came on we help promote the book Talk into the greats of talking to the goats. I think was the name of his book. And we we. We add up on one of i episodes. And hopefully you guys join it with some great stories about tyson. Different guys so a winner going to do that. I don't know that we're getting asks again because of our popularity because you guys were getting by a lot of different losses to promote that book and without really at the point where we're always going to have them on the way we do. Jim we will sometimes when we think that it makes sense but we will from time to time. Put a a mention of a book that i think especially in boxing. Obviously that is worth mentioning to put it out there to do a favor for the guys because the good guys because the author is a guy that respects the sport. That's the way i look at it. That he's a guy that respects the sport that That properly can't about the sport writes about this because pointing right about this sport for people to know about the greatness of the sport so right as if you get legitimate ones good ones once that a conscientious that do their work It's important it's important to let defense out there know about so grapevines. They might not always be aware of will way of how great they walk so every once in a while. When often sent me a book. And i think that he's the right guy. I'll mentioned his book. And i'm going to do that real quick and christmas time. Hey you never know be. Maybe you wanna buy a box of but his one the night. The referee hit bag. You heard me mention as well. It's a couple of times. Mike silva he's a historian he's probably one of the top tree is story probably the world in boxing and he knows his foot and another one here. That just got said to me. Is brian dugan. Hey y'all know this fight you wanna revisit a little bit and spicy during these time. Sit back and do some reading your you have to stay in. You can't go out. Visit one of the great fights One of the epic fights one of the biggest shocking fights of all time. Great offers marvin agla and sugar. Ray leonard and you could still argue with somebody who really wanted to fight and finally put this up that this is by a guy that's not as well known as some writers write for matt's foxing the internet website. I'll tell you he's one of the best reid is that i've ever seen he just how to right. He gets the point he puts it out there and and honest late then understanding way and he looks for the truth so he. He puts some of his stories together over the years of the the thirty. Something years said billy. Tips has been around. Boxing and talking to fight is and people in the business i. It's it's enjoyable so has rich. Can you give me the titles in the authors. One more time. Yes so we got the night. The referee it back. I love that title and the author is mike. Selva got it. We got the super fight. That was haggling leonard. Of course. Brian dugan is the author and then like quick essays. I think you'll love this about well. I think the greatest sport in the world and it's by bill tibbs is remembering a true champion and chatting with the champ. Got it. And i said and i listen every once in a while guys we. We try to bring everything that we think. Make sense to you to you. Good people and every once in a while we do that. We mentioned a book If you feel like picking it up you feel like looking at you. You know you don't life this way. We're doing a little something. That i think is good for the sport to give these writers a little bit of the do for carrying about the sport and trying to write about sport in the proper way and those will be some great last minute. Christmas gifts have anything left to do this year. Guys thanks again for being with us. Like i said we've got one more show in twenty twenty. We're going to preview campbell and king ryan garcia. So thanks for being with us and one more to go before we put twenty twenty in the rear view. Thanks guys instead so.

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Week's Best (Dak vs. Brady, Brees or Hill?, Zion Williamson, Mahomes/Lamar rivalry, LeBron James)

Skip and Shannon: Undisputed

55:46 min | 1 year ago

Week's Best (Dak vs. Brady, Brees or Hill?, Zion Williamson, Mahomes/Lamar rivalry, LeBron James)

"Welcome to the weekend edition of the undisputed podcast on your host Johnny Taft. Today's podcast features all the best segments from this week sleet of undisputed with end up interviews and discussions. We have a lot to talk about heading into next week. Skip Shannon. Let's get to it. Cowboys appear to be all in on Dak Prescott despite swirling rumors surrounding Tom. Brady Michael Irvin added some fuel to the Brady to Dallas fire but later walked back his comments on the situation but signing Brady would certainly be an all time all in move for Jerry Jones who turned seventy eight in October. And obviously is it getting any younger as he chases a another super bowl title. Greg Jennings which quarterback will have a better year next year. Dak Prescott. Tom Brady back Preska out. That Prescott will have the better year. We already saw what he's working with the year. He's coming off of with the talent that was around him. Now we understand that Amari Cooper is not under contract. Randall Cobb not on the contract. There's some variables that need to still be put in place there to help support what he was able to do an established for that team and he doesn't have a contract with the Dallas cowboys. Let alone all those other guys. But let's say he does get signed by the Dallas cowboys which I believe he will. With Mike McCarthy being now at the head coach position Kelham more at the office coordinator position him establishing that relationship understanding the importance of having a relationship with someone. End The offense to continue to progress and build on that. And then you add Mike McCarthy who? We've seen what he was able to do with an Aaron Rodgers in the Brett. Farve those guys the his his resume proceeds him as far as being able to get the most out of those guys you can arguably say whatever you want to argue me up and down about Mike McCarthy but he's going to make Dak Prescott a better quarterback if this all works out and he is with the Dallas cowboys assuming that it will Dak Prescott would definitely have the better season again. We've mentioned it. Tom Brady is going to be forty years old unless he gets into the perfect storm. You talk about the chargers. Everyone automatically assumes that he answered Tom Brady and with the chargers in. They're going to be great. Will that is not always what the case is when you're going into a completely new situation. Situation Offensive Scheme of coal coaching staff culture. You don't know what the culture is and you have to now create that. Tom Brady being with the Patriots if they were to put pieces around him he. I think he would have a better chance of being up there with that. Prescott as far as his their their play but Dak Prescott clearly by far. Have the better season Major Boston. I'm saying it would be Tom Brady if you gave him the same weapons that Dak Prescott had we're everybody including crisper saw it so they were going to the Super Bowl and talking about next year about what he has. Because we don't know if that Prescott is GonNa have the same up to saying that that Tom Brady can do that. And we see quarterbacks age quarterbacks win if you put him in. The white situation has circles to hang. We saw any manning win forty-three year old. We saw Pai. Many who could bail was the tin man in that super bowl could barely move around and he was able to do just enough and not hurt the team but the defense carried them. All I'm saying is people last year thought with the with the Pieces that the cowboys had that will go to the Super Bowl and not only did they. Not Go to the Super Bowl Greg Jennings. Day didn't even make the playoffs because Dak Prescott wasn't able to win the big games that they need to win. They went to Philadelphia to division. I mean the the division right there waiting for right. All they had to do was go. Beat A DEPLETED PHILADELPHIA team. They will have quarterbacks wide receivers. 'cause they had nothing for Carson Wentz and what attack do laid a goose egg no touchdowns in a big game really like a playoff game. All I'm saying is not buying all the way into Dak and that's why Michael Orvin came out with this. That's why he went and put out there about people around the cowboys because they know with that talent base if they would insert. Tom Brady protect. Tom Brady and had the weapons that they have they would have a better chance to win a championship deduct Prescott. That's what you are running wild with this. Tom Brady to Dallas story they even Mike. Irving himself has walked back because they talk to. You know that God I look that Prescott is going to have the better year individually. Okay now I mean he's what twenty seven don't matter we played all. He's not gonNA get worse and Tom Brady. At forty three is not going to get better at best. Probably stay the same. Maybe slightly better twelve game. Also you tell me didn't. Wasn't Tom Brady to quarterback one more in the league. How great their defense? Which player quarterbacks better individuals season Dak last year threw for more yards per game by fifty four yards? We're getting more touchdowns better. Qb are better. Completion percentage. That's going to be the case next year. Now if Brady gets in the right situation maybe it's New England and they add some skill position players. Maybe it's Indianapolis Tampa Bay. Whatever the chargers he might win at a higher Clinton back. I think the cowboys will be good. But you'll probably be on. The team is really good too. So if you're looking at winning maybe Brady will have go further but individual season. I think got now he do make a good point. You're over here rob. If somehow the Patriots get Greg Olsen at tight end in. Aj Green of the Bengals as a free agent. Brady's numbers would be better but Tom Brady was not a top fifteen quarterback in this league this year by any statistical measure. You can look at whatever you want. He was not a top. Fifteen quarterback Dak had his best season in the league again. I don't know if you buy the stats. You like to win. Loss record stuff. I feel I need to support all only because he was two and seven against teams. Five hundred or better yet but to visit. So this defense wanted nothing to do with just. You can't bring out quarterback you'll know what to New Orleans New Orleans didn't even score touchdown and be gap Prescott and did not have a game there tolerated. He will no doubt sell. There's one for examples receiver to be on the field against Philli. Was I was Amari Cooper out there every cooper. Well he was. He was in and out again again. I'm going to be wrong but I believe the cowboys led the League in passes and they were out there they were third audit. We go coach was off. I want to say this to like so. Let's say Tom Brady. Goals to one of these stack teams. Let's just call it? The chargers and their stack or New England brings in all this talent that Prescott still going to have the better season. Why because no one is going to ask Tom Brady to do what they're going to? Acce Dak Prescott to do at the quarterback position at this stage in their careers. You'RE GONNA ASK MORE OUT OF THAT PRESCOTT. You're going to get more out of that. Prescott in result is just like basketball. Everybody talks about you. Know what am I gonNa get from this shooters will if you give them more shots he I guarantee you. He's going to score more points. If you give that Prescott more opportunities. There is no chance Tom Brady is going to outperform him individually. You're not going to ask a forty three year old quarterback to come into whatever situation even New England and they know him better than anyone and say. Hey Tom Win for us again. That's not going to be the narrative that's not where he is in his career. It's just not gonNA happen. Sorry Rob you are dead wrong on this. I'm not wrong and I'm telling you guys don't want to believe it but Dak Prescott and Matt Stafford a closer than you really WanNa believe and the only difference is one playoff win. Matt Stafford puts up all these numbers for the Lions. You not as prolific is a prolific. Passer has really big numbers but they never were GonNa win in Detroit with Matt Stafford. And they won't win with Dak Prescott despite all the talent for them not to make the playoffs year ago. Would Eagles were broken down? The giants were bad. Team is ridiculous. I play last year. Greek hold on you compare into mask. Davidge played ten years. How many times does he made the playoffs? I think two or three okay. That's made it twice in four. Wait hold on. Hold on to think too okay. Biggest to twice in four years and beat the Great Russell Wilson in the playoffs before Dad. Got There with Tony. Romo in their previous six years. Dallas made the playoffs once. So you're blaming the years you're putting a fool blame on Dak Prescott. The Dallas with the third best point differential in the NFC miss the playoffs. Yes because you can't look at the point differential why he pulled them numbers against the bad teams. These started the season Torino Washington the dolphins and what about the preview diet? Here's rob no I'll tell you what Woah now even doing races i. We don't even have to raise the EFI. Didn't put up those numbers. You would have been making a stink about the fact that he put up those numbers. You know what I'm saying but it matters who you beat Greg. You know that if you're trying to win you trying to win a lot. He wrote a super bowl. I'm going to say this. This is no slight against Tom. Brady is just where he is in his career. So before all the new England fans go crazy. Say nobody no one on chancery and Tom Bush naive town of Tom Brady. It's where he is in his career. Which is why. I'm walking down after. Martine th rings in the Saints will technically not avid quarterback on their roster since all three are up for new deals. Both Teddy Bridgewater tastes him. He'll WANNA stay in New Orleans. But Sean Payton has insisted. He sees a potential future for hill at quarterback comparing his late bloomer potential to that of hall of Famer Steve. Young Hill recently told the viewing himself as a full-time franchise quarterback Greg Jennings funny. I'm also view myself. As a full-time franchise quarterback should the saints move on from breeze and go all in on the hill? They should definitely move on from from drew brees Go all in on some hill. No I would go all in on Teddy Bridgewater which is what I think they will do. And what? They did do this past season when they had the chance to insert tasting meal or Teddy Bridgewater. Who did we see out there for the five games? We saw Teddy Bridgewater and they did well and they won all five of those games however tastes them hill. He does provide this this excitement at quarterback and I do believe he would be successful at quarterback in this league when we look at the Lamar Jackson Sean Watson's and the Russell Wilson's of the League in this running kind of epidemic. That we're seeing the quarterbacks go on at that position. The time for a standing the pocket quarterback without being mobile. That's done in so would taste hill when you look at what he was able to do. In that playoff game he will provide some team with a spark at quarterback. And we were talking. Brady just was here recently. He played defense. He understands what it's like to be stressed as a defender against a running type of quarterback Colin Kaepernick's L. These guys they come and they splash and sometimes they don't have longevity of careers because they never develop in the passing game. And why? Why do I mention that? Because Lamar Jackson. We've seen him literally make a splash. But he's developing himself has a passer more than ever. Why because the understand. That's how I'm going to have the longevity and we'RE TASTES THEM HILL. He can definitely throw the football he can catch the football. He can run the football. He's a very physical durable type of guy so I like him in in a situation that you're building an offense around his skill set but to keep him over Teddy Bridgewater in Saint in New Orleans. I wouldn't do that. Look I. Don't think they should move from drew. Brees he's forty one years old I get it. He played well last year. Not Halfway off okay. One grow one game now getting rid of their no one gave the league in completion percentage yet again he averaged two hundred seventy one yards passing a game yet again. He was twenty seven touchdowns. Four interceptions yet again. I mean this is not Tom. Brady peyton manning that in drew brees still has it. I get it. There might be some declined but soon notice greg. You're super bowl. Window is short and right now. New Orleans is in that window. So I'm I'm going on breeze or one year deals. I'll let him play next year and if he falls off will move on. Because I keep one of the two and I'm with you on this I would keep Teddy Bridgewater. He's proven to be a winner. What was he twenty two and twelve on in his career as a starter and last year. If you look at the overall numbers you might say. Well he'll the average like one hundred sixty yards passing a game when they went five. This year came man. Look at the well hold on this last three starts this year with New Orleans. He averaged two hundred and seventy eight yards passing again so they started him out slowly as a game manager then time went on. They start letting him told the football. So I'm with and I think bridgewater if you went to him and said look we gonNA keep drew one more year. We think we still can win the super bowl this year. Your guy next year I think bridgewater state. You already did that in the past and hill if you have to let him go 'cause he's tall he's six passes last year. I like him like you said situationally and all that but he threw six passes completed three for fifty five yards. So let's slow down on arguments. I was one of the best bargains in the League. He made five hundred forty five thousand dollars. He helped you on special teams. He was essential blog. Great Football Player. He's a great quarterback. That's where we agree. I'm with Bruce. Hart here move this idea to move on from drew. Brees a little bit chronometers Greg. I'm done with drew. Brees on the Wallin's drew brees the last three years in the play offs ten touchdowns six picks sixty nine percent completion. Just okay there were two and three and that game everybody cried about when they had to pass interference job. They got the ball back. You want to go back and watch what drew brees did. At the end of that game they still had a chance to win. That game. Greg. Even with that renders penalty and he didn't play well enough so all. I'm saying is I'd rather let them go a year too early to you too late. There's no reason as the time contract. Forty one move water ten and go and Teddy Bridgewater sitting right there even if he's not your long range guy he's the bridge one hundred per season go draws somebody develop that guy but you got teddy bridgewater for the next two or three years. Water is the starter and tastes them. Hills the backup even though tastes just said. Well I want to be a franchise guy if I wanted to think that he has that potential and I bring them along but you have a guy could step in right away. You're living in the past. Juwan why are we living in the past on Teddy Bridgewater? Who's hurting college and he's out hurting the NFL world right now in five Lt. Now or now you're raised. Give it to taste them. No I'm not no. I'm not I am ready to keep breeze knife. I WANNA come to rid and keep tasting. Hilas MY BACKUP. Keep drew brees and drew brees. Maggie did go the problem I have. Oh really the super bowl quarterback drew brees exactly because there's other super bowl talent that they have on that team that won with him but he will but are you still wanting to keep them exactly. That's the problem. I the reason. Why the reason why I struggle with this is because as a quarterback you're always given the benefit of the doubt because the idea is will. They're not they're not a lot of them out there. They're not no. That's your job to go and find one and get one that fits in that will work with whatever it is you can provide in create around him. That will make your team better player. If if they believe that tastes them hill is that guy. Let Drew Brees. Go somewhere else you could. You obviously go somewhere else. Let any direct greg. Why not you know. And we're going to let the same franchise one you a super bowl. Just go where but that's the problem. We're we're quick to throw away a running back or receiver or or anyone else but the quarterback quarterback asthma sport receive the quarterbacks getting more loved than the receivers. You know Georgia's do plays the climbing. Let's just admit really awesome year last year. He threw for five touchdowns and three hundred fifty yards against the forty niners. Forget that Oh didn't forget that but when I needed you most look what. Look what You provided me. If we're talking about Pat Mahoney. Do you talk about Pat. Mahomes depend mahomes did this then. It's like wait. A minute was going on with Kirk. Drove Down the defense drew brees Ryan cornerback. Thank Kirk cousins. Made all the throws down the field in overtime. He did and drew. Brees did not do that by he did not do that. They got a crucial turnover and then drew brees turns around and he he gets the ball stripped like I get it. I I love drew. Brees is done one of the best to ever play at the position in New Orleans. He shaves the landscape of that organization that franchise in a crucial moment after after after Katrina. But there's always the time when you have to identify. It is time to move on. Let me tell you. We have an option in house that we can ring. Whatever Hill Bowl Ridge water bridgewater's ready right now and it's just like I give the charges credit. They could've broke bill rivers. No no Don River Rare Philip rivers last general reno impairment. That you're wasting the situation. Is the situation Chris? I'm not in equal players. Too Easy for the charges to do was say oh. Philip had a bad year. Let's just we're going back again. Because he's he's buying River River your area and moved across the country who's off. Jay Glazer reported Fox said he moved across the consult but to Florida reasons. Leaving New Orleans drew brees had a good. Yeah you cannot kick drew brees. We gotta run this rivers through five times. The amount in I on Williamson sure played inspired last night dropping a career high. Thirty one on Portland. Zion also had nine rebounds five assists and Listen Folks Lebron K. D. and Luca Danni which are the only other nineteen year olds ever rick ever to have a thirty one nine five game. Zion's averaging twenty one and just under eight boards through a whopping nine games this year as Rob Parker shakes his head. Rick Zahn Williamson already established himself as a superstar in the NBA. Who put him up to this. A do we did you know. Educate these me and Greg are one side. You're on the other. We handing out the superstar tag. Keychains trade show. Wh Is this twenty twenty superstar. He's not even an all star yet. Thank you he is now. I will say this. He is exciting and fun to watch. He has shown some superstar like qualities. But right now he's an energy guy that's what he is. He's an energy guy and he's a dynamic energy guy because he's so athletic but superstar is a guy who I mean first of all. What's the accomplishment at this point nothing? He's a celebrity. Yes yes this day and age Roy media. That's right that's what they are. So but for me a superstar lead you to championships. He's the best player on your team. So I am. Williamson is not best player on this team. They don't play through him offensively defensively. He's he's not very good. I mean he's come on that lost defensively. What surprises me is that as dynamic athletic as he is is kind of a phone booth rebounder like. I would have expected that he was going to be able to his. That was one thing he was going to put up huge numbers offensively. He can go get his own and he can do some electric things but man. I mean Judge Judy. Judge Judy a superstar. Because she's very popular. Let me read the definition of superstar. You'll take us in. The News crews initially start the dictionary definition. Look it up okay. Profile and extremely successful Greg Jennings these are taken away. Look Zion. Williams is a superstar. Questions should really be. Can he live up to the superstardom and my answer is right now with the sample size that we've seen Rick I get it I get it. What is he done? Well he's been effective. He's been very effective when he's been given the opportunity when he's been given the minutes and when he's been axed to be effective in these nine games as you're GONNA so eloquently nine games mind. Let's listen to what I'm saying when you talk about a superstar you're talking about a guy who was the number one overall pick. He has all this hype surrounding him and everyone has this expectation of him in what they consider he could be or should be or will he be. Yeah right now with what we're seeing. Even last night. He has showcase into us that yes. I'm going to live up to the hype I get it. It's line games but was that. What was that going to? Did you say you said going to? He's going to live up to the height. Yes meaning he is in it. He's going to live up to the rick the number. He's always allegra. I wouldn't I nine games last thirty years. Nobody else in. Nba History has scored twenty or more good looking for numbers those numbers because when they went back there to figure out like a novel Parker a minutes restriction coming off an injury he's scratching and this is the life that we live and we worn a crown people right away because they weren't go marry but why well because he's on social media and everybody knows we is because he played at Duke. He's a fine player. He's not a superstar. Nobody Rick Rick Steph initiatives perfect. That's the real definition of what it is. Is John Moran Now? Trae young is not a superstar superstar. Yes I could argue and I agree. Trae young is not a superstar yet. But there's more evidence back up trae young being a superstar Desire Williamson. Trae young is starting all star game because of all the fans voting for youngest put up. I Bet I can look up some numbers to just thirty nine on Dan when I hear what Ziad weight bearing tenth seed right now they. I'll tell you right now. You know. There's nobody wants to design Williamson in the first round after he's got thirty games. Sorta LETTUCE ARE I. Don't think that the namic player who can take over game already. Wait a minute. He hasn't taken over game yet. Lebanese Prime Minister Great. Okay so with all of that limit. Chris made a great point. If we're just going superstardom because you are popular because everybody wants to see you succeed. Trae young is a superstar without question. He's a superstar. And I'm sorry you're saying John Mirant is not. He's going to be looking at the year or the year making. Samson is no. It doesn't sound logical. He could be the Article Star High Profile. Extremely when you add decorative telomere utar believe in dictionaries this best talking about TV star. There's actresses scored this week. Surprised me the most because we expect from. Yes because we're thing ause because you know how hard it is to achieve various status levels in the game and keeping that you wouldn't give that out so quickly because there guys. I'm sure you played with who had like three or four amazing game and you didn't say that Dude's a superstar Beckham junior set a few on. I some talent you can identify it right away and I think you can't. We can't just say Oh. He's not a superstar because he hasn't had opportunity to showcase it on a big large scale or sample size. What he's doing. He's a superstar to come in with all the height to to be number one overall. Pick to have a team pretty much. Say we're looking for him. We can't wait to the league shifted everything as far as watching just so we can watch so his regime superheroes I I'm not saying younger the superstar. Why he's got all good poets. I will say this. He's in the all taught me. Listen to me. I will take this from Rick. Chris. You can't a politician Padma whole Lamar. What they won't go as new in real say how many you go potentially many superstars do you have in the NBA currently because if you're just saying championship to to set earlier. Does that mean Janas is not a superstar with an MVP award. No I can I can say this is a superstock. He's leaving I think there. Yeah yes well I think rick is. I agree with your premise. I don't say you got win the championship leading you cannot be a superstar in the NBA without consistently leading your team to the playoffs again. There's no way. Yeah here's the thing guys will always get their numbers for me. A superstar gets everybody else numbers he makes the game easier for everybody else and that was the only thing that I had to. That gave me. Pause with honest because he's great dynamic player and in various ways he makes them go. But you've seen how they play when you take him out of the equation. They're still very good and I need to see him do that in the postseason when it becomes. We're going to gain plan to stop you and you've got to be able to adjust your game. We're not looking. This always bothers me and we're going to hear it with if they don't make it we're going to hear it all if they would get somebody. Chris Middleton can't be the second best guy on the team. Lebron James in Cleveland off. They'd only get him help and then he goes to Miami. He Learns How to win a championship. He learns how to make other guys better and now suddenly it's different and you could do it with almost anybody. I wanted to piggyback on something else you said about because look. I think he's going to put up if he stays healthy. He's going to be like a twenty five in eleven guy and I love the fact that he doesn't dominate the ball. And you don't have to really run place other than you know. They get it to him in the post but I think that makes him be at a fit with other guys perfectly because he doesn't have to dominate the ball. However when we talk about the Superstars jaanus Lebron Co. Why steph Curry James Harden? They are guys that when all else fails you can give it to them on the perimeter and they can create something off without even dominating the ball but they can create their own side. I don't see that yet in Zion. The yet will he ever be so he may be a God is twenty five eleven making the All star every year in a legitimate star but not the number one. Guy Anthony Davis. I don't think it's the number one guy. He's one eight because he can't do what the other guys. I just went to act on a superstar. He's a I would call him a super so I will call him that though because he does not fit the definition of making other guys. Better your definition. Okay yes you guys. Don't listen and Steve Nash. Superstar made everybody superstar. Anthony Davis not a superstar. I don't even say that is if it's extraordinary that we would say Steve Nash who was A to a super was the catalyst of this team that he would. We would look at him as a superstar. Anthony Davis not a superstar younger. Say Anthony Davis notice. Greg that's not even hard for NATO is so unfair to big big guys. Don't always you as everybody but our billy Joel embiid superstar. Not yet a I think he has. I think superstar like qualities and Greg said he's not going to take it from me or whatever but in the room stuck he got them to give him some just want them to play the video. Would you told everybody how Great Kwame May Brown was going to be? Because why am I get a effort? That's right with your whole idea of guys have to win James Harden. He hasn't won and what he what he wins at a high level. He hasn't won a championship. I I don't think you have to win a championship to be a superstar leaders having to be in the hood and consisted language. Russell Westbrook does he make anybody better as he wanted. Anything is Vincent Defy Russell. Westbrook's is super bowl. I don't definitions not as stringent as Rick's eighty. Absolutely thank you rick. No-n Patrick Mahomes has taken the League by storm coming the youngest player ever to regular season and Super Bowl. Mvp when asked if he viewed himself as the new face of the NFL. The homes gave credit to Lamar Jackson being on the same level after being. This season's unanimous. Mvp Mahomes is only twenty four Lamar. He's only twenty three so we can expect a lot of exciting matchups down the road between the two former. Nfl quarterback in Super Bowl Champ. Steve Berlin is joining us. Steve is mahomes. Lamar the next Brady Manning rivalry in the AFC. Well we we all sure hope so. I think it'd be great if it got to that point but there's a lot of things that have to happen before we can start building these guys at that level. I mean We've only had what how many games they played against each other too. I think so far career nearly two years into it as a starting quarterback I I think there's a lot of things have to happen still but truly I think the potential is there for a huge rivalry. We already know what Patrick Mahomes is going to do if he stays healthy. He's going to rewrite every record. It's that's out there. I mean if he stays healthy and that team continues to have the weapons that he's got around him. He's going to rewrite everything we know what he can do. Is One the big games? He's shown he's got the ability to step up and play at the highest level. At the biggest moments Lamar Jackson he burst onto the scene this year. There's a lot more questions I think about Lamar Jackson when you look at what he's going to do long term and number one is this. How long can you play the way that he's playing? How long has his body and allow him to play at that level now what he did this year. We've never seen out of a quarterback before running the football development from year one to year two as a passer astronomical and I think you'll continue to work in and develop that way because we know his work ethic is at a very high level extremely competitive. He's GonNa push himself to prove everybody that doubt some wrong. And he's going to do the things he's got to do to continue to develop now. The question is whether his body is going to allow him. Tad that ten twelve fourteen year career playing the way that he does play if you want to talk about some comparisons. Let's talk about Colin Kaepernick Cam. Newton guys like that. That were runners. That led it quarterbacks that ran the football and we're asked to run the football but their bodies were not able to hold up over time or they didn't develop as a passer overtime. Forget about all the other stuff with Cam Newton and with with Colin Kaepernick. Especially look at what happened after he made his run to the Super Bowl the twelve and four year when he was in two thousand thirteen. There were twelve in four. Yoda's records were the next few years. Eight and eight and two thousand fourteen two and six and two thousand fifteen one in ten in two thousand sixteen because he didn't evolve and develop as a quarterback. He didn't continue to get better defenses. Figured out how to take away the things he was comfortable with Ken. Lamar Jackson continued to stay ahead of that curve. Guests who the offense accord. It was for of those quarterbacks right Colin Kaepernick and Lamar Jackson so Greg Roman challenges on him too as well if he stays with mark. Jackson how can they stay ahead of the curve and keep him developing and evolving as a as a quarterback and really more importantly I think as as he gets up into his career? He's got a container develop as a passer which I think he will. Again Year one to year two astronomical so. I think the sky's the limit form of his body holds up. These two guys are shown the ability to be able to turn it up and play at a high level in the big games. We'll see where it goes. Yes the I agree with you. Look Mahomes we already know. He's in this like he is assuming stays healthy. There are no other questions about him. What he does is sustainable. There's no doubt and he's got. Andy Greet the great coach. He's got tyreek Hill. These Guy Travis. Kelsey he's got you know Damian Williams. He's got McColl Harvey for the next few years. So he's going to be in this discussion. Who's going to be the other guy I think? Lamar is the best choice at this point. My only question is sustainability is not because we've seen mahomes win in the playoffs. Obviously we haven't seen Lamar do it. The to good teams he's faced. That has seen him twice. I know we saw Cincinnati twice. They're not good he's OUGHTA browns. Twice last year did not good. Pittsburgh was injury riddled and all that stuff the two teams he saw twice that we're good. The chargers two years ago and last year to titans they they bothered him up early and I know he had big numbers against the title design. Okay right I mean. His problem is if they get down in. A playoff game. Now you gotta change everything. He has to become a passer. I agree with you in that. This summer is huge for him because if he makes the same type of leap or even two-thirds the leap that he made last year off season. That's what's necessary because it's Tugela Cam. Newton you mentioned can do this twice as big as Lamar Jackson. A he couldn't take the consistent hits and it broke his body down over time. I think Lamar is as he slows down. As he takes more hits he's going to be more of a passing quarterback and if he can do that well then this can be Brady Manny. Yeah no I. Don't think this'll be brady manning but it like you said it has the potential to be. But it's not going to be. These guys mashed up seventeen times like five times in the postseason three or four times in. Afc Championship game like they were. The elite of the elite like literally led their teams and it was all about them. When I look at these guys. Their styles are completely different. Patent homes is very similar. He's kind of a combination of both both quarterbacks. Tom Brady and peyton manning. But you mentioned something that I mentioned earlier Greg Roman when it comes to the style of play that Lamar Jackson in the Baltimore Ravens Play. It is it fits tremendously well for the regular season can they? Can they change in? Turn that up a notch in the postseason and then you look at the skill guys that he has around him versus pat home. Those no comparison you talking about a guy who has to are heavily. His his threats are his biggest targets. Ours too tight ends and then you have a receiver who is a smaller guy. Who's been in and out of the lineup? So he doesn't have as many weapons in the arsenal. That Pat Mahomes has and then outside of these two quarterbacks Shawn Watson. That's what I was GONNA ask. Steve can can he be in the conversation to Shawn Watson who have seemed to poo poo despite some of the numbers? And we've seen him be spectacular. We have seen him an enema. Huge Shawn Watson Fan too. I mean the guy. I've had him as my fantasy quarterback the last couple years because I love that guy. He's proven himself in the big games too and his combination of running and passing the foot. Peaked he's a throw you know. I mean he can sling it and there's no doubt now both he's way ahead. Lamar Jackson in terms of his pocket ability as a passing quarterback. So you have to put the Sean in that category. You GotTa put Russell Wilson in that category too with what? Russell can do as a quarterback and Russell. He's he doesn't take a lot of hits so he's still going to be he's got another she's at least seven or eight years left. You would think well Steve. I want to ask the sustainability of Lamar. We saw three pocket. Quarterbacks get injured kind of maybe fluky drew brees. Nick Foles who won the Super Bowl and Ben Rothlisberger? All just hit in the pocket. Lamar I know. He's a running quarterback. But do you really feel. He takes a lot of hits because to me. It's accuse Moore Russell Wilson Elusive knows when to slide unlike say. Rg three well. When you talk about. The you mentioned reason Rothlisberger. Those are two pocket guys. That are older up in their careers and they've they've had you. They've had the cumulative effect of a long career as well. There's no doubt standing in the pocket. That's the kind of quarterback I was. I got the crap out of me but still I'm still this far as you know. I got to new hips and a few other issues. But I'm doing okay. But the bottom line is everybody's different. I mean we saw Patrick. Mahomes dislocated knee cap. dishonor fluky plan. A quarterback sneak a durability. Is the question with all these guys. Were as you said that we had a body of work of how many games between Brady and manning I mean it was seventeen. Seventeen meetings between those two guys. It's GonNa find itself overtime. The question is going to be whether Lamar can continue to develop as a passing quarterback and whether they'd put weapons around my mattress mahomes by the way makes everybody on his team better because he's got the special qualities as a as a pocket passer who can also break a defense down with his feet but also especially in extending plays and when he gets outside of that pocket he's not looking for completion or to get a first down. He's looking to throw the dagger he is looking to end it right there. One play and there are very few quarterbacks that have that ability so he's very unique. Does it running and look? I got to admit I've been surprised that Lamar was fully healthy through this year. Because I didn't think a guy can run that much in survive but it does put you at a greater risk. Run INTO FOOTBALL. Like and he always stats. He did take a few picks up a few. But he's really good at avoiding the hit so he really smart and doesn't take a lot of big hits but as we all know there still is a cumulative effect if you're asking him to run the ball fifteen to twenty times a game all the cutting on his knees on his ankles and the the breaking down and trying to make the move that he makes bodies falling on top of them getting yourself in awkward positions it as you age. Those things start to take a toll so you have to evolve. You have to. He's not going to be able to run the ball when he's thirty years old the way he's running the ball right now. Just you can't ask them to do that. If you WANNA be Lakers got an overtime win last night against the nuggets by four? Lebron had a triple double thirty two points which backed up. Anthony Davis is claimed before the game that Lebron was the best player on the Lakers. But back in September on Lakers Media Day Lebron stated the offense would run through. Anthony Davis in Lebron seventeenth season. King James is averaging twenty five points. That's the second lowest of his career. Despite the drop in Lebron's numbers Lakers are forty two and twelve. I in the West Rob Parker heading into the all star break. La Times Lakers reporter Brad. Turner joins Brad his Legrand. Hey what's up guys? We're starting to softball. Here is Lebron. The most important player on the Lakers. I want to say yes and no yes. Because he's been there before he's won championships. He knows what it takes. No because I want to see a d. Take that next step. Have not seen that yet. If you play for the Lakers Kobe Bryant Shaquille Jerry. Wes Baylor Magic Johnson. Kareem James Worthy. They get to the next level can get to that next level. I don't know last year. Who did that? Kawhi Leonard Basle Special Place to be Michael Jordan at the top of all of them. Tom Brady those guys get to the level. We have not seen before. Can't do that if he can't. They can't win you've watched. Ad For what Fifty Games here so far. What's your thoughts on so far? I mean Kenny. Is he making progress? His talent is as good as anyone in the league. I mean he blocked shots. She was too big. Three's last night. He can roll to the basket he can dunk on guys he can do everything but does he have it in his soul. Can you really being all that out? Like I called for Twenty Years Magic Johnson. I got to see him play early in my career so I've been spoiled. I've seen the best you covered as Thomas so when you see the best you expect everyone to play at that level. Not everyone can do that. We'll do that in the playoffs. I don't know and see that's why I agree. And we had this big argument earlier in the show and Greg was was on Lebron that he's the most important plan I'm with you. It's about a d we know Lebron can do. We've seen it can. Ad Piece that he needs to win. That's Wa Brahm was willing to get rid of the whole young core and because he wants to win a championship hitting the basketball player. Right now he who the GM Lebron James. He's the one who got a D. Do Google say Arica Rob Pelinka okay. I know what you're saying but it's about a D. and that's why I think the most important if he doesn't rise to that right now and the two games against the clippers this year. He's he's he has a total four point which are to Ellsworth a Laker if he plays like that we got four in the fourth quarter right in the fourth quarter of the fourth quarter. Sorry a total of four and those two losses if he doesn't respond to done play well. Dan No shot to win. It's about a deed issue but in those losses. Who was the best player on the coin? It was Leonard it has to be either the Brian. Ad. They have to be the best player out there otherwise they can't beat them. They proved that and now the clippers have added someone that you're not quite sure about but they mock Moore's who's tough. It's tough as they come back now to anyone to Rob Parker. I mean that's easy one right. Oh but for me. It's Lebron James. Lebron James is not only the best player. He's the most important player in the reason. Why is clear when you can dictate everything everywhere? Lebron James has been the offense. He's been able to plug himself in and take over in. The offense just develops into this. Lebron centric offensive game plan doesn't matter who the talent is around them and then they sprinkle in what they offer to the table we saw we saw with Kyrie. We saw with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh Down in Miami. And we're seeing it now. As much is Lebron James Wants and as much as you want. And we all want to see hd take that next step he understands. I can't back down. I can't I can't just give it to you. You have to show me that you're willing to take it and then yes you might be the best player you might be the most important player but for right now. I got the ball in my hands I dictate the tempo of the offense. I did tell you what we're GONNA run. I make the plays every situation that you need. Lebron to be great in he gets the ball in those positions in in those situations. Anthony Davis as great as he is. We need him to be great when it counts. And You I want to ask you a question you talk about. You haven't seen him take that next level that next step. What is that the and you talked about his being in his soul. But what do you see in him? That either tells you. He can do it or that. He can last night. He took two big three point. Shots made them both. Hit A big black. His talent says yes. I can do that. His talent shows you that he has all the skills to do everything in the big moment. But once you get to the playoffs. That's the highest level. You can get you know that if you can't become I don't want a coby Bryan because that's really high but yes if you cannot become a Kobe Bryant in the playoffs a career Leonard in the playoffs. You cannot leave your legacy at that moment. Then you have all almost failed this. We talk about Lebron James when they beat Golden State he had the big block. Who took a made the big shot? I we are big shot. I read that's what you really want to see from someone like you didn't give them up the ball he. He didn't even have read at the same time. You look back at those early shack. Kobe teams Shaq was the clear Alpha. Three-time final MVP. You need number two to be Kobe Tobacco. You told me. Anthony Davis can't be the to serve you say check. Was He clear? Alpha in those three file. It was a one one. Eight one eight one. One eight Lebron. Anthony Davis had that they can. We don't know yet. We won't know until April gets here because we haven't seen him be able to do it in the postseason so he had a good playoff series against supporting to do this because of the way he plays. You know what you just made an interesting point because you talked about shocking Koby and you said it was a clear Alpha and I agree with you. There was no clear Alpha and the reason why there was no clear. Alpha is because Kobe you you can convince him that he wasn't the number one clear. Alpha all you gotTa do is go to his rookie. Year highs will be put up. I mean even Kyrie Irving you couldn't convince Kyrie irving that he wasn't the one one player like no you understand okay. Yeah everybody wants to say this. Lebron team would this is. This is how I feel. Which is why we ended up leaving because he felt like I can do this without him when you have to your point when Ab takes that step in not make the comment. That Lebron is the best player. Greg do you want him to say I'm the best player on the DC? No no I don't but they Lebron exactly employer. That's not to say that. Why why do you have to pass a final brandon years? Seventy one day. No why does that both the best your own a deal you will is that. He's a really easygoing. Guy Does Not want to create problems. So you will say he's the best guy on the team. He's the best guy in the world but you want to prove that you are now. Kobe Bryant no never know my dad would never somebody with two different types of people right. A D is not that kind of personal. His talent tells you I am great. His personality says I am with the group. I'm about all of us and if the Brian James was the best player than our say he's the best player in the League. So basically you're thinking of the Alpha as hey. We're all going to the car. I'm driving on the Alpha and then decide whether I'm driving I'm Ryan Shotgun. Anthony Davis is just like. Hey let's roll out. Let's go as a group. Yes I personally think that's a little overblown but you've been around the league. Also we look back to when the Lakers played in the Pacers game for Jack Jack who takes over that moment. I thought to myself Kobe. Bryant will be that Guy. Those ones come along very very seldom. It came along with a wire last year as some point. I'm thinking it may come around for the Lakers. In the playoffs we'll ad step into that void and fill that role. When the Brian James by half just can't do it and he needs help. Everybody needed. Kobe needed help coping until Belga soul came out. Let me ask you about Lakers clippers. For Sick you mentioned Kowa was the best player in the fourth quarter in. The first two Lakers clippers meetings. Brad how do they stop him? Does it need to be Lebron. Does it need to be Anthony. Davis should it be someone else? I mean Ken. Lebron be the best player in the fourth quarter. If he's as Greg said running the offense all game and then you gotta go defend Kuwa- that's that's too much to ask. A Lebron knows not at thirty five. Knows that if you're the best player in the planet and you still see the best Puna penny you take on that challenge you decide that I will God quiet if not an AB takes on. One of them has to be the guy to say. It's I will be the one to do this. The legs have been run down by them in the fourth quarter every single game. They've lost it in there. They get a double digit lead. The defense talk the suburb. They become stagnant office. The run plays that you wonder why Brian Dugan the ball twenty eight seconds on the twenty second class. You want all these things. Why are they that executing when the clippers are so? I gotta ask you this because we we discussed this earlier. There was an anonymous executive. Best say that there is no chance no way. Don't the whole DNR. No way that the Lakers be- the clippers in the playoffs. Seven game series. That's what what do you say to that the Y. Played a game. Why show up? I just looked on my phone. I did the Little Google thing and I saw that Boston was down three. Oh to the Yankees in two thousand four day. Yeah and I think they came back one. No they didn't is flat. No and I said it because I'm a dodger fan. They just all day so no way. Why am I here? Why are we here if you put it out guys just being all these? It's a cool thing to say. She's not the middle of the road. What I just think you look at where. The clippers are their depth their coach day. Play Defense on a perimeter. Just look at it. Do they have three closers? They have guys who can finish games when you look at all that and say a seven game series and they're all playing in the same building and not right. That's GonNa be the same of the Lakers. How could you not think that that they would not want to seven clippers would be the heavy famous no doubt in my mind? I mean yeah they have August. We have four guys. Averaging eighteen points or more game the Lakers have three guys. Every in double figures. Tipples have six guys averaging double figures heavy favourite sprint. At first I would say slight. I was heavy because they got marcus watching plate watch dollars look goon it up against. Lebron and the fast bottle. That's Brad Timeout. Brother of doom did not home. I'm just saying the duke and ball fights last year. Something like white in the clippers. Czar with Pat Beverley on the team. There's something to say having tough guys on your team that won't back down so yes I would say maybe favors too hard okay. But I had him as slight favorites on Christmas Day. Now I'm say they are just a favors to beat them because they have a better team but no way I would not use that phrase ever in anything clear VEGAS HAS IT dead. Even they're both the same odds to win the championship. Twenty four and three in his dead even now. How could how could that be head coach? Brad that were big assert Vegas 's biggest wrong vegas all right Brad. Good stuff we got a million questions for Brad. Thanks for listening to the undisputed podcast. I'm johnny join us again at nine. Thirty am eastern on Monday for another week of undisputed. We'll see that.

Tom Brady League Greg Drew Brees Lebron Dak Prescott Anthony Davis Lebron James Lamar Jackson Greg Jennings Lamar chargers Lakers New Orleans Rob Parker Teddy Bridgewater Rick Rick football Tom
REShow: Hour 3 (12-02-19)

The Rich Eisen Show

43:33 min | 1 year ago

REShow: Hour 3 (12-02-19)

"Thank you for listening to this. podcast one sports net production available on apple podcast and podcast one. Everybody's got A to do list. Drop off the dry cleaning pick-up some milk. Here's an idea. Let's add save hundreds of dollars on car insurance to that list and the good thing is you don't have to drop off or pick up anything. All you have to do is go to GEICO DOT COM and in fifteen minutes you could be saving fifteen percent or more on car insurance extra money in your pocket. Of course this may be the most rewarding warning to do you do today. Our number three of the rich Eisen show is on the air. We've been having a great conversation with you. And and also with Earl Thomas of the Ravens and Bruce Feldman of the athletic and and Fox sports one of the best at covering college football and These things happen. Timing's everything in life as we know Timing's everything in a show like this. One is well that we hang up the phone from Bruce Feldman and a major story breaks in college football. Your phone calls are related to our poll question. Eight four four two zero four rich. Our poll question. It's brought brought to you by capital one which is reimagined banking and offering savings and checking countered. No fees are minimums one of the nation's best savings rates capital one. What's in your Wallet Chris? What is our update date of our poll question? Top of hour number three here on the show. Yeah looking at which lost from the weekend's going to be the most impactful down the road. Alabama Dallas San Francisco New England than fifty two percent right now Alabama okay patriots cowboys and forty niners all losing the Patriots dropping to the two seed meaning. They've got to go to WHO Baltimore presumably to get back to the Super Bowl and defend their title there. The forty niners could be the five seed by the end tonight. If the seahawks win on Monday night football as I expect. Expect them to do by the way against the Minnesota Vikings cowboys getting a gift. Getting a gift from the Miami Dolphins the cowboys one in three Regan's the AFC's this year the only team beat was the Miami Dolphins back in week three when they waxed him when the dolphins were a bi week essentially for everybody there were homecoming now. The Eagles get him later on the season. And they get fits magicked or making that verb. Yeah Damn Straight. We are So that happened those are that's why they're there are our poll question for the day. Phone calls as well folks are calling in right now and we'll take your calls as well because I said naming another team it's more reinventing inventing ways to lose than the chargers over the over the years. I tweeted this out the response. I got where the lions are saying. Hold my beer the entire city of Atlantis saying hold your old their beer. Somebody said the mets the mets have have inventive ways to lose but not I mean. I've never seen chargers I'm telling you man eight four four two zero four rich number to dial but We start with that breaking news out of college which football and the news update from Chris. Brockman brought to you by the happy Honda Day sales event if a new car is at the top of your wishlist this holiday season. Hurry in your local Honda dealer and get a great deal. On the accord civics fix danner. CIVIC hatchback today with a report of the day's news from the world of sports and entertainment entertainment someone who is not a journalist or newsman by any definition of the word whatsoever which Chris Brockman laugh. I'm wearing that suit. Good though I will say that. Okay all right so breaking news from College Football Washington head coach. Chris Peterson just announced stepping down his position. Their new coach will be defensive coordinator. Jimmy Lake Peterson's going to transition into a leadership advisory role all for the U.. Dub Athletic. So let me Let me leave. Say What is on. Everyone's mind since when is leadership advisory Advisory Role for huskie athletics the same thing as head coach of USC football. Yeah I'm not sure Doesn't sound like that. I mean yeah but but now I know that's what many people are going to be reading into this That was my first. Why would why would they announced the new advisory role? Yeah yeah or or allow it to just like. Yeah you want you just walk in Conference Down Los Angeles Chris you know we won't. We'll just say we'll just say you're gonNA Take an advisory role advisory leadership role way to ship as well with all due respect. When I meet people and I say what do you do for a living and they say well I'm in I'm in consulting and marketing I will then ask and I asked questions for a living and frequently? You know I like hearing for. That's a great question interesting question so I know I know how to get answers from people. That's what I do professionally navigate through I can edge somebody saying what do you what do you do consulting. I'm in marketing consulting and I will basically use five more questions and I still don't know what the hell those people do. What what is it? Leadership Advisory Role. What does that mean? You're Cellino advising leadership position. I what what I do is identify the leaders and I advise them on leadership. That's my role in athletics. So what I'm GonNa do go throughout the athletic department. I understand all you. HUSKIES fans answer upset. That I'm no longer coaching your team. And you know just be excited for Jimmy late because that's my handpicked successor. But just understand. I'm GONNA go throughout the entire University of Washington Athletic Department Department. I'm going to Identify the leaders and then advise them and then so across the board. We're going to be a much better their sports program. And that's my the best use of my abilities here at the University of Washington Not Coaching the football team. Actually I'm going to make sure when I see leaders I'm going to advise them. Domino advise the hell out of him. What does that mean? Is that any less confusing title than Matthew mcconaughey as Minister of Culture. At least I I know what that means you do. I mean it's just it's it's a title created so one of the biggest stars of of planet earth can be part of the program. At least I understand that. I don't understand this. He's one of the top football coaches in the country now. I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm in charge of leadership advising what. Yeah Chris Peters said six years at Washington fifty four and twenty six only one informed ballgames however and and it's like you know whenever you so I know I made a looney tunes. referencing our to do another one is well when you know. The Coyote Wiley looks at the road runner and he stares at the road runner. The road runner turns into like a meal a fresh meal. That's the way fans have been looking at. Chris Peterson last few years. There openly pining for this guy one now is available. I guess let's keep an eye on all that and that's just my job as being a leader of the rich Eisen Shawmut vising you. That's it's my role in advising the listeners. Yeah just did. What else do you need from me? Well but thank you okay. Let's hear from Freddie Kitchens a lot of deal uh-huh about the t shirt he was wearing. You gave your two cents. Yes it says our its perks. Started it yes which is a great way? Talk to just bring up. Pick at the SCAB from to go. I mean I feel like a lot of people probably believe that that Pittsburgh did start it He addressed this controversy quote unquote after the loss. Yesterday use this. The tee-shirt didn't have anything to do with us At the modest one moving around I wore a t shirt I wore a jacket with it. my daughter's shirt and I'd wear it again. I'll put a jacket on covered it up. I took it for the picture with a van. That was as simple as that. And now I mean t-shirt didn't cause us to give up passes and we were ready to play. That's the only thing people need to be concerned about. We're ready to play already. Said my two cents sense on it if you missed it. Go to our APP apple. Google play at the link at the top of the twitter handle. I'm seeing my twitter feed Freddie Kitchens. I'm also seeing from the NFL network Assignment News desk as well a tweet out. What whatever news? It's Freddie kitchen saying today. According to all the reports sorts out of Cleveland all the reporters who were at the press conference Freddie Kitchens not concerned about his job status same thing was uttered by Ron Rivera. Yesterday yesterday as the panthers followed up their home loss to the Atlanta Falcons with a home loss to the Washington redskins. What was that the ending ending of that game yesterday? And you got you got a new owner in town Who is known to be a demanding And so wrong on not not concerned for my my my job satis since. When is that news? You know what would be news. Here's what would be news. I'm head coach. I'm on the hot seat question. Hey Hey rich tough to tough season. Are you concerned about your job status for next year. Of course are you kidding me. I could get fired around here I got I got. I got a mortgage the car payments. I'm sending my kids to a school. The cost me more money than it costs me when I went to college. Course yes. I'm freaked out over here. We got a win. How are we GONNA win? Defensive Coordinator can't coordinate squat. My quarterback back stinks. That would be news then you ask me from concerned about my job status. Of course I am. I don't WANNA move. That would be news. Would not be news. It would be necessary. I'm just I'm concerned about my job status. Nah I'm just going to. We got to focus on win here. If you're watching the game yesterday Baker Mayfield. I'll deep throw hit his hand on Bud depre- facemask I did. And then he wore he worry you wore kind of off. It was seen after the game. It was wrapped fully expects to play week. Fourteen by ignored with a bruise xrays. Negative that happened with with ten seconds to go and then the next play Odell went running off to the locker room as before the half right so as I tweeted out. I'm like man with these teams. You gotTa Watch less tech and ten sessions every half. There's you never know what's going on. You think it's over. It's not that's where the best action is with these teams Iran. Vera also said Kyle GonNA start the rest of the way actually breaking breaking news from Jacksonville. Mustaches or back guys Gardner Menchu now. The starting quarterback foles Doug Marrone I. It is so again I I just don't know of whatever. His injury was still lingering. I don't know I hear terrible. And he is a great leader a great person and obviously just one of the most clutch players but falls being reinstalled as the quarterback for the Jacksonville. Jaguars was dreadful. I mean positively dreadful a turnover machine an inefficient yesterday interception to throw it directly to the bucks two whom lost fumbles. It was no there was no where to go but back to the mustache so that the rest of the way did he say that to Marin the rest of the way. How about this you ready for this week? week fourteen game a real quick Jason Garrett confirmed Brett marsters teams stickered and and as you mentioned earlier flex change in the schedule for week fifteen Buffalo Pittsburgh now Sunday night football preview of maybe a the two wild card teams go at it. I mean it'll be a big game for buffalo to try and maybe stay just a game behind New England or if New England loses to Kansas City. This coming week week they could be flat. Flat Footed Tiger Week Sixteen game. That's real bro. I'll get ready for overreaction Monday okay four and eight chargers at four hundred Jaguars who's GonNa lose more inventively but I'll tell you. What if Gardner Menchu does what he does? He's exciting man. He's tough to pin down. I still can't get over how the panthers lost yesterday. Ban Chance to tie the game on the three R line and Kyle and retreats all the way to the thirty thirty I don't know but I still think kyle and could be a starter in this league. Yeah I think so too. He said I really nice moments. The last couple of weeks and I came that Cam Newton stuff is is just sitting out there. We're not talking talking about now for various reasons. We're focused on the season. We're focused on the here and now Pittsburgh started it all of that but once February hits Oh baby out there and who wants him. I'm going to bring it up next overreact. Look at us. Let me sneak in one more a couple phone calls here before we We throw to break. Let's go to mark in Ohio. You're here on the rich Eisen show. What's up brother rich guys? Thanks thanks so the call man. What's on your mind mark? Mike Loan Cleveland Browns Fan. There's no way that anything found ways to lose the offensively than my Brown's twenty years ago against the Kansas City chiefs. But she's kicked a field goal in mixed with two seconds left. Dwayne rod takes off his helmet so celebrate. Remember that that get flagged conduct fifteen yards three kick in win. That's the worst loss ever. I appreciate the call Mark. That is an inventive way. And of course we always know about the fumble in the drive and Cleveland fans. Raise your hand like that all the time you know Don Boyer According Producers Talk in Minneapolis Helpless Miracle and no No no flag no penalty. That's those are two tough ways to do it but the saints also won a super bowl. I'm talk talk about the chargers. I mean soup to nuts. Start to finish. They went they went to the Super Bowl one year. So we all remember. And Stan Humphries got smoked by the forty niners. That was the end of that. Had smoked the shot of him. No law being I believe can cost. Where's your staring at stars? Mean that's closest to Gloria's they've ever gotten man that's a tough one all just to lose yesterday the way like that. Here's yeah here's a rookie quarterback that just lose flinging it up in the air. Oh Yeah it's an answered prayer Pass interference and then just here comes to kick see you. You thought you tied it. We're going overtime Tom. Nope the announcers I think it was I and fouts they were telling you. What just kneeling it drew? Lock Chenille it. Let's go to overtime. Let's let's get on with it. and He chucks it up. They throw a flash STEVE IN NEW YORK. Let's take your call here on the rich Eisen show. WHAT'S UP Steve? Read so all this coach change talk and whatnot whatnot. Yeah whatever happened with Mike McCarthy like is he just kinda ghost out in Green Bay or wasn't around New York. No here's what I think it is. Steve is that is that. I don't believe teams will want to spend the money that I'm sure he that would come with. Hey I I won a super bowl I have all of these wins on my resume. I want you hire me as opposed to that hot young college coach and And many coaches usually don't get another shot. I mean. Ask Brian Billick. Ask Brian Billick. You know what I mean like Billick won a super bowl with the ravens. He coordinated one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of the. NFL fell with the Vikings. which is what the Ravens job? And then he hasn't gotten another job since he's been on TV but you know when you win a super bowl and and then you're let go by your team. Usually it's just like let's go with the hot young coordinator or what the hot With the hot college coach. Because because that'll be cheaper and fan base might buy it better. You know like paychecks. Jerry Jones I get that but maybe we you know I mean I'm A. I'm a lowly cardinals fan. I get. We've got that hot new young guy. Whatever that's the perfect example right? I mean look look pretty shirt kitchens or maybe you bring them in there with all that talent. Maybe just maybe Mike McCarthy might be able to take care of that Steve. Thanks for the call. Appreciate it by the way. What did I say when the redskins fired gruden about a month and a half ago? It's Lincoln Riley's world and we're all rent pain in it and we're not ready to talk about it yet because he's got a big game against Baylor coming up and then potentially a big game against Lsu or Ohio state coming up after that and then and then we'll talk about it. Ian Rapoport went on the air yesterday on Game Day morning. Talking about how Jerry Jones grandson you. And he's one of the top prep quarterbacks that Lincoln Riley paid the Joneses visit visit. Oh yeah to to talk recruiting with the young man and they struck up a relationship. The Jones family of court the Reilly family and their time. They liked each other but they were impressed with each other and then other teams are going to hear it. Wait a minute. He's in play. We gotta bounce our Guy Right now we gotta get you gotTa get in on that we ask you a question. You are the owners of the Cleveland. Browns sounds you're the owners of the Dallas Cowboys Guy. You are the owners of. Let's even go bears. I'm serious you are the owners of of you know you own a lot of teams okay. You're the owner of the collar on the panthers. The owner of the Denver broncos read. You are the owners of. Let's keep going here. Man could jets chargers giants. Who Do you want to put your are young stud quarterback's hand in in? Whose hands would you want to put your young quarterback? Certainly when you're a a year or two away from the decision that I think is gonNA eventually land in the collective bargaining agreement conversations because we used to give a ton of money to players that weren't even proven in the pros yet period minute. They get drafted. They get the most money in the history of the franchise. They changed that and the last collective bargaining agreement. Now you gotTa make a decision on. Somebody really liked golf. Wentz you gotTa make a decision on someone like Dak without having seen very much outside of regular season performances may be a splash here. You're in the playoffs. You got to pay that person one hundred twenty hundred thirty million bucks so you're one or two years away from having to make that decision on Darnold Jones. Let's keep going trubisky Dak right now. You're going to have to do it Baker. Why wouldn't you put these guys in Lincoln Riley Hands and tell your fan base? Look what I did. Buy Your season tickets now. Good move eight. Four four two zero four rich number two dow. I don't know if I stole any of your Overreaction Monday Sunday right there. We'll be good. I don't know if I was overreacting at all Tamil said he just said said he spoke to a source. Close to Chris. Peterson does know illness or tyrian motive. It's to his retirement just needs to recharge now. What would be the old terrier motive that he wants to go to? USC No again And and I understand you you know. It's long slog. I can't even imagine being a coach at that level. It's gotta be intense so I I believe it. Yeah and what better way to recharge Archer batteries. Then identify the leaders in your athletic department and advise them in a role originally. WH who income's only starting this week. Okay leadership advisory role up there with load management. Whoever came came up with that well done sitting up there in Seattle? Here's what we're GONNA do. What are we going to see? What are we can say about you Chris? You can't. We can't recharge your batteries when we say you're take a role in the athletic department. What's going to be leadership advisory? Well sold well done type it up and by the way. There's something extra in your paycheck. Good job it job. Like something out of Seinfeld likes like George made up makes this up at good job. The Human Fund hits the Helmet Fund. Coach coach was the line. You hear it people helping grasp but I don't know what the hell you mean by a four four zero. Four rich overreaction Monday when we come back. What's up Brian Dugan here? I'm excited to bring you our podcast. The DEGAN that will be every Wednesday on podcast. One Apple podcasts. We'll be covering many subjects. Such is racing family. Howie stay together? How he thrive is a family family? So I think it's exciting. We're going to cover all those subjects and many more. Check out our new podcast. The begins airing every Wednesday on podcast. One and on Apple podcast cast. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review. Okay we normally do this. The first segment In our AH after the open on the hour which is technically called the second segment. Sorry about that time. It's okay allow myself itself to introduce myself. My kids have been watching the Austin powers series. lately really on occasion. It's John It's a little racy racy. I'm into that. So yeah the gold member and and you know the fat you know what business. It's Kinda crazy but did they enjoy fat fat. Be his I solve. Course what are you kidding me. Yeah I saw Paul Monty Python's holy grail when I was like seven. That's way worse. Oh Yeah Dude Yeah. It's Oh my God Austin powers I mean Austin empowers. It's just like you know making fun with coconuts right the other which by the way they did an unholy grail as well. That's they banged a coconut instead of riding horses but that was the most team of it. All fake. Never remember the Dark Knight Universe. Where we're it's just a flesh wound is? He's losing his arms arms cut off in the right way. That's from that film. I saw that as a seven year old knows able to a lot. Yeah so you know. Wanting to see fricken lasers laser is different. La La Myself to we normally do this segment in the first hour every Monday. After Korea football weekend bought Earl Thomas called in so I hope he put a nine volt battery in order to restrict in the background during that conversation. Do that when you change daylight savings time that day is is a reminder to do that all research well done Mike during the show during the show when the when exactly do the research search did the research. Very good overreaction. Mondays brought to you by capital one which is reimagined banking by offering savings and checking accounts. No fees or minimum is one of the nation's best savings rates capital one. What's in your wallet that will enable Garbage Talk Reaction Mundi all right here we go I? I'm trying to convince all of my gambling friends to do this right now and I'm GonNa make complete everyone here. The bills are GonNa win the AFC overreaction to one right now. And I'm going there yet. You're not no. I'm not the the winning in Dallas. When you know the hand cramps going on and and and Jerry we gotTa Win Again Damn Game And Dallas has? I've got a team where Michael Bennett. WHO's fresh in? There is the one who's tearing up the Locker Room by screaming and yelling by I. I shouldn't say that negatively he's the one who's reacting emotionally try and get people to remove their mother orifices in Egypt. Scott there It's a different story than going into foxborough where the Patriots by that point in time may well. We'll see what Kansas City does. But they've won twenty nine zero right now. They're not ready to to go there yet. That's just an overreaction action but I it's trending in that direction okay. It's trending in that direction is also trending in the right direction. The Patriots won't win a playoff game this year. That's overreaction stop it stop it. Come on man the Texans are GonNa okay okay objective here. What did you see last? It's night that you saw. That could say you know what this team can still win playoff. I said it last. Okay I said it. Last week seven quarterbacks that's it have beaten bill belichick twice in the same year that's it. Seven hasn't happened since JOE FLACCO in two thousand twelve so Lamar Jackson is going to have to join. That group Shawn Watson is going to have to now join that group and by the end of next week. It could be Patrick Mahomes. Who's going to have to join join that group? And what's the way to beat the Ravens. You've already seen the offense before like the browns did last year in week. Seventeen eighteen okay. Okay And the chiefs did last year to those of their two losses this year. I'm not jumping ship on New England just yet what else you got a big game tonight. SEATTLE MINNESOTA THE SEATTLE seahawks win the NFC west. I'll say that's not an overreaction and then watch them. You know pooped the bed tonight on Monday night. Football after I say that but I mean they. They've won won four in a row. They've got San Francisco in their house. Potentially on game two fifty six I mean. Could you imagine for all the marbles to make the playoffs as the one seed or the two seed winning the NFC NFC west and a bye week. Or you've got to go on the road to Dallas to start the very next week and potentially in short week because I bet you ever got that Dallas. I wanted to Saturday night. Yeah be very difficult to not put them on a Saturday night in the playoffs so that'd be rematch. Last year Seattle lost in Dallas. Last last year I prefer to say that wouldn't happen again. I'll say that's not an overreaction may not happen but it's definitely in the in the realm of of normal. Yeah what else there. Now the betting favourite to win the Super Bowl but the ravens are the actual super bowl favorites right now. Yeah our buddy. Josh Charles Texted me. What did you think of today's football action? I don't know what he's talking about. It's not like he's not man. How about those redskins? Yeah yeah go dolphins. Wow did you see how drew lock look not asking me about that. Yeah Right. I'm like your team look Superman. They look super. And and and you've got the MVP you've got a defense that stumping people on the back end our first. Our guest is a future hall of Famer Earl. Thomas you've got a running in game that's now nineteen games in a row. One hundred and twenty five yards rushing. You don't know who's got the damn football now and every single timing offensive line is coming on out at you. They're hitting you hard. Nobody wants a piece of this right now. There are dumb but that's it as a fun game in the slot for sure today Fisher. He's five and one is a starter this year Ryan tannehill going to be the titans starter. Next year go. Yeah Yup questions words Mario. They're going to be when you sign. There is a backup is. I don't know he's got that you know Lewan says he's special and he's been a professional and whatever I don't know who would say you know would would Carolina your come here which team he could Denver say you know what Li- lock doc. Wasn't the answer over the last week season. I don't see why we know we're going to have to go higher register with Ron Title. Ix Good I mean did you see we look yesterday. I haven't won. I know rams are GonNa make the playoffs now l. fastest ours thinking what would be the best result for the rams. It would be the seahawks winning right but if the seahawks win they're essentially going to miss the division right right that if you are hoping to win the division which is the best way to get to the Super Bowl. They got eleven wins. That's the most wins that they could have. Yeah then keeping Seattle within hailing distance would work. But wouldn't you rather just make the playoffs regardless they would just be with the Seattle in a game out of the last wildcard with with the Vikings so I think the best answer for them would be to have Seattle win right thank so right there. The seven seed that would put Seattle with four games to play one game away from the rams maximum number of wins. Let's see what I'm saying right. Math is everywhere. But I think it's best for a team that's currently you're seventeen. Ah leading the group that's sniffing in the NFC that the sixth seed would be one game closer and then the rams if they let's say they went out there in eleven when team Vikings. Don't make it would you if you are. Green Bay was. Yeah now not that team that showed up yesterday and the team that showed up yesterday was looked outside. Man ordered yards third quarter. That team at showed up yesterday looked pissed about getting stomped on Monday undenied. So that's why I'm saying. I said that yesterday gave me morning that they're still last year's team still it's still in there somewhere. And McVeigh hasn't the smart enough to figure something out with his personnel and a personnel on defense can figure it out with Wade. I mean that said. It's the Vikings are pretty damn good too but if the win tonight I think that's would be the most helpful. I think the rams yet another one over there. We've got a few more Mike. Tomlin should win coach the air. I don't know how you can't give it harder. You don't give it a off. The Ravens do what. They're doing three quarterbacks from Mike Tomlin though I know I know but they might just be a nine one teen. I'm wondering woman has a ah a coach of the year ever. Let's look this up not just if we can't find it for today show than tomorrow's has a nine win team ever been coached by a coach of the year. A wildcard team like a non division winner. Winning Nine Games has ever garnered that coach a coach of the year. You know they have to make the playoffs for him to even be considering that you know. Those votes are our crew soon as the regular season's over not based on the play playoffs but it's tough to not give it a horrible. Yeah I mean John Harbaugh has been dynamite on. I mean they're going for it on fourth and four fourth worth five. He is rolling dice pushing buttons and it is working and a team loves each other. I mean it just looks like it is all chefs. Kiss Perfection Man Right now. Let's just to to more real quick. Okay one third of the League. We'll have new starting and quarterbacks next season I think that's a good one. Oh Yeah I think that's a good one that would be ten teams right. Yeah wow the Cincinnati would might have one. I mean I was wondering this yesterday. On on twitter dolphins would have won with all due respect off the top off the top of my head. I was thinking bengals dolphins. Maybe the raiders chargers broncos Panthers Bucks Titans. jags bears So I'll say that's an overreaction. Few of what you just said. We're going to miss it. You're GONNA miss the mark on some of them. Maybe Patriots chargers loyal boy swat op quarterbacks. What's your last one over? The last one This was from your Friday night show and NFL network Top One hundred here. Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defensive player of all time. That ain't an overreaction but I'm also bias I'm sure Eagles and packers fans will say don't forget Reggie wide or the story and you could lower the music here even though the NFL films music might lead to it since it was set on the and the studio at NFL films. When Ray Lewis who is the first member of the defensive front seven to be named on Friday night and the NFL one hundred all time? I'm team show. And he was the first in studio guest and He showed up and it was a great conversation with Ray and ballot check and and Collins Worth and then they added Lawrence Taylor to the mix and Ray said my dad. Put a tape on for me when I was a kid in it was you and how how passionate ray spoke about what Lawrence Taylor showed him. And how great he had to be based on what he saw from large talent he noticed as a kid that none of the men that were on the other side of the ball Lawrence Taylor wanted a piece of him and then Lawrence Taylor said that he knew where everybody was supposed to be on the field except for himself. He had no idea where he a ballot. Check laughing about that and then telling a story about how there was was an offensive and defensive meeting the night before a game and the defensive meeting he started and Lawrence wasn't there and lt showed up five five minutes into the meeting and afterwards Bella checks that he went to parcels who is the head coach time and told him. Hey you know Lawrence was late to the meeting. Just I want to let you know that other guy saw him walking late and he was late to the meeting. Bella checks is parcells turned to him and said why did you start the meeting without him. and El Chico's Lt goes. That's my guy now. Remember I told you after we shot this and I was China. I couldn't tell me about how Bella check was gushing about a former player to the former player and the conversation was so amazing with the former player that it went on and on and on and on to the point where I was told before the segment. Hey you gotta keep this one a little bit short even though that was is the rules of engagement between NFL films and me and all of us that we can let the conversation go on as long as possible and then they'll just deal with it in the at around it because again they took six months to shoot it. And then to Eric and so I was told before the segment. Hey keep this one a little short because the guest has been waiting awhile and he's kind of getting a little antsy and he would like to come out. Well I guess was mean. Joe Greene was the third third guest in the show and he was sitting there all day. I think it was like one of the last shows the first day that we tapes. He was there for a while. And so you would you want to get out there. But the conversation was going on so long that I had the epiphany I had the ability to sit there is as a host in my head and say if you had told me like literally the conversations going on thinking in my head of like if you had told me that in my career that would be a host of a show and I couldn't throw to commercial break because bill. Belichick won't stop talking. You'd have me over the father segment with Bela check. and Lt who who was by the way slated to just do one segment with Ray Lewis and go and he stayed. That's how great it was and I'm telling you there's tons of stuff still on the cutting room floor. Oh what a show and this week. It's defensive backs and specialist and you can kind of guess who showing up as defensive backs in studio you can take a little guess. Great moment when he goes. Just call me Joe de la and again. I'll say I'll say this to you. Know One more here so joe comes out and Bella check starts the conversation okay. I'm the host bill floors floors yours. Your bill go forward and I'm thinking to myself okay. This great chuck no like what what. What question could he possibly ask mean Joe Greene? There's so many he asked him about. The coke. Commercial was amazing which was amazing and that was not scripted. I had no idea it was coming. And it wasn't re edited to be at the top of the segment it literally was started. Didn't talk about the steel curtain. Didn't talk about the history. Man that coke commercial was so awesome. It was great and he said tell us about it. I thought to myself who is this guy. Ballot check wanted to know about the Kobe commercial and he told him that he said that it took about he. Was There for about twenty hours. Or whatever and he and Jenny Golic and so lt says to him you know one ticket twenty hours all you had to do. Say The white kid catch. I laughed at it was laughable moment and then you know he said that it took all that time because he kept drilling down all the sodas and he kept burping thing and God bless. NFL films. They found one of the outtakes amazing and then he talked about how meaningful the the commercial was for him and certainly about him being a man of color and the boy being white kid and how they were kind of together and it was a nice moment for for society in the country and we were all sitting there nodding during our heads and then Lt goes but why did you take twenty hours to do it. He just couldn't get off of that on believable the best now I gotta throw to break. We'll wrap up the show set up the rest of the week. Hey listeners just wanted to take a minute to thank all of migrate sponsors and all of you great listeners for supporting this podcast certainly couldn't do this show without either of you and I want to remind you that you can support my sponsors by going to on my show page at podcast. One DOT COM clicking on the support this podcast button and there. You'll see all of my wonderful sponsors that help make this show possible. So thank thank you for downloading subscribing and of course supporting now back to the show going on over there. Because you're back live on the rich I leo and you teach Air Park and we're still talking about. Yeah Hey Lacrosse France. The Twenty Nine Thousand Nine hundred twenty. NFL season continues this Saturday. Don't miss out on the free preview. This weekend's stream all season long with the biard our live pass and also know that. NBA Pick Him. Is your chance to win big this. NBA Season Lock in your game predictions to build up your picking points towards awesome NBA prizes. PLAY FREE FREE AT NBA Dot com slash pick him. Our final poll results brought to you by our friends at capital one which is reimagined banking by offering savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums one of the nation's nations best savings rates capital. One what's in your wallet over there. What do you have over there? Christopher which was from the weekend most impactful Alabama losing fifty two percents Very good you see that thing. That's been going around the last five years Alabama and the Patriots Have Not WanNa Championship in the same year. They the US for the first time on the same weekend since two thousand eleven. That's that happen ridiculous. That's a fact and Phil Network Research on on covered that one. Yeah man I mean I I understand what the Patriots looked like last night and they looked like a team that if you need I need to go point for point they don't have the firepower despite having the goat at at the trigger. And they don't have the the answers anywhere you know. That's what that looked like to me and just as that realization is heading here comes the Kansas City chiefs. and that means everybody's GonNa spend all week talking up mahomes. And how great he looked and what they did to the raiders and that is exactly when the Patriots put a forty Burger on this chiefs chiefs team. I mean it happens all the time I mean. It is a story as old as fifty year. Old Baby Iota it really uh-huh Brady. Fortunately was able to finish above fifty percent completion last night. Twenty four forty-eight for forty seven would have been the first time ever. He had back to back games under fifty percent completion. Oh thank goodness for that Thanks to earl. Thomas and Bruce Feldman This week In studio the following Dan soder order Henry Cavill Robbie and Stephen Mel will be here together Also about Danny Devito. It has that work for you actually going to be. He's going to be in. He's just been booked for future shows this month nice. How about them apples? Oh yeah so. That's it. For our Monday they show. We will see you Tuesday. I say the Seahawks win tonight. Perhaps I'll be wrong but will discuss it and the am Tuesday Monday night. Is podcast tonight. The Los Angeles Lakers. What's happening? Everybody this is the official Lakers pockets on your host Mike Trudell super pumped to be your flanked by Erin Lahr Sewell. You ready to go. I'm ready to go. The Lakers will be a top ten defense on your team. That has two stars or in this case of Lebron AD can sometimes cancers other out. But I think they're both good candidates for MVP. I really like the way that this team just feels to be around the say. It's a very clear message to stars in the Brandon. AD and it's everybody else on board the relationship that is developing between those two off the court and on the port. Their cohesiveness on the court I think in this case is a special case that the two of them will enhance each other as opposed taking away from each other. Be sure rates. Subscribe and Leave Review available on Apple podcasts and podcasts.

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