20 Episode results for "Brian Calvert"

Trailer -- Important, Not Important

Important, Not Important

01:08 min | 2 years ago

Trailer -- Important, Not Important

"Yeah. Welcome to important, not important. My name is Quinn Emmett. And I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy. Are you a human being who's pissed off and or terrified about climate change? Do you want to know what you can do about it? Are you excited about finding a cure for cancer, exploring Mars McRae's e crisper might unleash do you want to know exactly how to bring clean energy to your town or how to put ocean advocates into office? Then join us every week. We host a conversation about one of these topics the most important questions facing humanity right now in the next ten years, or so we bring on a genius scientist or an engineer or a doctor or an educator astronaut or a frigging Reverend. And we finished with action steps you can take to fight back and upgrade the world around you because it is time for action people, you know, it, and we know it it's crazy right now, we get it. We got you. So tune in on apple podcasts or anywhere. You. Listen to podcasts at important, not important. See there.

Quinn Emmett Mars McRae Brian Calvert Kennedy apple scientist engineer ten years
WEBBY NOMINEE: "Who's Fixing The People Fixing The Planet?"

Important, Not Important

1:29:25 hr | 6 months ago

WEBBY NOMINEE: "Who's Fixing The People Fixing The Planet?"

"Hi everybody it's Quinn by now you've heard the exciting news that we were nominated for two more. Webbie's this year Best newsletter and best podcast episode last year we were nominated for best podcast host and best science show We didn't win but our competition was truly among the best of the best end like this year. We are honored to be in their company. That does not mean. We don't want to bring the trophies home this year We do want to win this thing. The podcast episode we were nominated for was number seventy featuring guests Nikki so vestry and it was titled. Who's fixing the people fixing the planet while the conversation was mostly climate specific because cove. It wasn't even a glimmer in that. Bats I yet It couldn't be more timely as those of us at home and especially you are amazing. Listeners are doing so much to support healthcare workers that are out there putting their lives on the line every single day. These people are facing unimaginable stress. And still show up every day and just because they're showing up doesn't mean they're not struggling much like those folks that have been working on the climate and the oceans and the land for so long These things stick with you. Am I honestly believe this episode might be among the best work we've ever put out there if not the best and I appreciate you listening or re listening and should you agree with me Heading over to our website at important on Borton Dot Com and clicking the link to vote for us we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again everybody. Enjoy welcome to important not important. My name is Quinn Emmett. And I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy this is the podcast where we dive into a specific question affecting everyone on the planet right now or in the next ten years if it can kill us or turn us into people who can see in the dark as he came up with. Yeah I mean I that would be transformative right now and we'll give an. We're in OUR GUESTS OUR SCIENTIST DOCTORS. Engineers politicians astronauts A reverend And we work together towards action steps of that. Our listeners can take their voice their vote and their dollar. This is your friendly reminder that you can send questions thought streams and visions and other feedback to us at Twitter at important IMP. You can email us at fun talk an important not important dot com where you can send us now. A voice message aimed at the link in our show notes. You can also join thousands of other smart people subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at important not important dot com. This week's episode is deep. What it is. I didn't know what else to two types deep Well Listen things are broken. Yes and sometimes the the people working on the things that are broken are also broken. And how do we help them? And why do we help them? Well because we need them I I I don't hesitate to say this is probably in. This is just such a ridiculous word to use. Oh a like a transformative episode. I feel like you're trying to steal my fucking said. This is the episode that everybody needs to listen to. Now you're saying like I didn't say it was about everybody that you saw got it got it take back what I just said. Our guest is was forever. We'll be Nikki so vestry. A truly empowering human and a woman and a coach and wow man. It's only been ten minutes. I am I feel like I'm going to be thinking about this one in learning from it For for quite a while. This is not a nerdy one now. This is not a wonky one. I'm not asking you to memorize cancer. Facts uh-huh or understand why oceans are doing what they're doing but it's about why why we're doing what we're doing and and some a lot of times why we're not doing what we could be doing and Nikki. She gets the heart of it man. Yeah and she's trying to help those people so I don't WanNa give too much more way. Do you have anything else before we get to. Just listen to this episode and tell everybody that you notice in this episode. I'm not kidding. It's incredible it's like how when we talk about all the problems in the world and how none of it matters if we don't climate change because if we don't fix climate change we can't do anything and this is you know if we don't start from what she's saying we don't start from a place of Of you know peace and wanting to truly wanting to help in innovate and if we're not happy ourselves then fuck of everything's fucked it starts with you first all the way all the way down to the I and I am. I just listened to the fuck episode. Here we go so good. Enjoy our guest. Today is Nikki Sylvestry and together. We're GONNA ask who's fixing the people fixing our planet nicki welcome hi? It's great to be here for sure. We're happy to have very happy to have you Nikki. If you wouldn't mind tell everybody who you are what you do. My Name Is Nicky Silvestri. You can find me at Nikki. Sylvestry DOT COM and I've been in climate change in food systems to the majority of my career and now I like to say that I saved the people that are saving the planet now. That sounds pretty. Love that Can you tell us a little more detail about what that involves? You don't have to go into you know everything but just to kind of context for for while you're on the line today. Yeah well I don't know. If you know any environmentalists but we tend to be somewhat hopeless. People like to walk around talking about all of the climate solutions in regenerative agriculture and food systems but a lot of us are just in a ball rocking back and forth in a padded cell inside of our hearts. And so. That's what I address. And on the one hand. And then on the other hand we need to be the most systems thinking abundance mindset social justice sophisticated social entrepreneurs that ever lived to solve the problems in the amount of time that we need to solve them ecologically and so on the other hand. That's what I also do. Is help environmentalists. Become better systems thinkers. I told you she was awesome. Yep Yep Are you able? I need savings and this is a good. This is not an intervention right. Now I told you before we started different so nicky. What we're GONNA do is a Quinson. Provide some quick context probably wrong and then you can correct him For the question at hand here And then we're GONNA Figure out some action into questions that get to the heart of why we should give a shit about About what you're doing and what everybody out there listening can do about it. Sound good sounds great. Yes sometimes the context is is incredibly Wonky nerdy. We'll be talking about Bacteria or cancer or or space trajectories or or you know The percentage of carbon dioxide affecting sawyer or something like that This one's a little more Met Us we don't have to get into all that but you know basically. Our listeners are often texting and driving so they don't have time to Wiki Pedia or look up the thing so we like to get everybody on the same page to start but we do like to kick off with one important question to set the tone a little bit so instead of saying. Tell US your entire life story. Nikki. I would love to ask you. Why are you vital to the survival of the species? Why am I battle to the survival of the species bold whilst yeah that's right? Let's get this going. I would give you all my really goes so after I had my nervous breakdown in twenty fourteen after talking to drunk climate scientists in DC. Who were saying wrong to die. I had to do some soul searching around what I felt like my spiritual mission statement wants and why I am here. And what came up in that deep exploration? Is that the deeper reason why we are destroying ourselves and destroying the planet is because of our dilemma around controlling domination in needing to exercise our fear of mortality on each other on the planet in control we can and so at its core. I feel like I understand that in so I don't try to address the symptoms. I try to address that core thing because we can. We can rebuild systems we can create new policies. We we have the right answer. We've had the right answer for decades not doing it and we're not doing it because of the control domination. So that's why I'm vital 'cause I actually have the right answer in. I'm doing the work to address it so that we're not creating systems that will destroy an election later. I'm into it while. So would you say that was kind of your big pivot? Personally one hundred percent. I started my career. I was a young executive director became executive director twenty five and spent Ming Ma my career before that was all in food systems in climate. Change as well and we had more time than twenty years versus ten years is. It's a lifetime jet some ways entire life so. I when I really started talking to scientists in was running two offices when in DC one of the day and having to go on television and talk about hope. I didn't believe it not when I was looking at the science and just didn't believe it and then to learn the actual statistics in a possibility when it came soil carbon sequestration and different draw down strategies. That was enlivening for sure. The part that wasn't was not we weren't we'd had these answers for decades and we weren't doing it and so that was really the thing I wanted to address. Why aren't we doing it? What do we need to hear individually and collectively to actually act in the amount of time that we have and so that question is now? What drives me and that was my personal revolution. I love it. Do you have Any sort of background in Psychology or sociology. Or anything like that. That you feel has really helped. You can come to this. Unique Place of getting to the deepest sort of first principles of of why we're not acting Such a good question so it just so happens that both my parents have masters degrees in counseling. There you go is a trans personal and humanistic psychologists. It's possible I grew up with seven older foster brothers in that. My parents ran a foster family agency together for the majority of my life. Wow and so I grew up in deep conversations about why parents have children and then have the types of struggles that means that they had trouble raising and so I mean having children as one of the most primal things that we can do that love. We have for our children's one of the most primal forces that we experience on a day-to-day basis. And so for me to interrogate the reasons why someone would rejected struggle with it. Do terrible things to their children. I think it it brought up the human psyche and the human condition for me really early. And then I got activated around environmentalism. I think for you know honestly. I've tried to answer that question like what? What is it about the little black girl who grew up in Inglewood in the late eighties and early nineties? That made me such a shears warrior for the ecosystem. And I don't have a good answer for you. There's different moments those inciting moments. I can point to my childhood but it really feels like it's something outside of me feels like it's something that I came in and I feel really honored that I get to honor that path. I think it's tremendous and I think we're all very lucky As as I'm sure trying those experiences have been that you have brought that perspective to them and had that pivotal with a bunch of drunk climatologists ask for just you know sometimes whiskey is truth serum and can make you go oh shit. There's there's a whole other thing that's not being talked about here. Exactly all right so like I said the context today. I'm not going to give everybody a bunch of facts and figures here. Because we've we've done that enough when we do that enough and and this is a little bit of a different conversation but this we have these so. I'm sure you haven't wasted off your precious time listening to our podcast but we started. If a few months ago breaking off Sort of longer conversations just between me and Brian about whatever we want to talk about with these main ones with an infinitely more Intelligent capable people like yourself Actually address a topic and I have. I have talked with him and and even talked with my wife and some other people about just how heavy This stuff can really be Which is why this one This episode and and and you as our guest means much. Meanwhile have enjoyed talking to you so much because we work really hard to not only talk about to help people understand help. People take specific effective actions on the topics and questions. We feel most vital today. Really good stuff in the really. Not good stuff An An of course again Brian. I couldn't do that alone. Were Idiots. That's why we have people like you on here so again just setting the table so people can understand how I come to these things each episode. We we bring on someone who's out there on the front lines in the field doing the thing and most of the time these aren't ignoramus like some of these other conversational odd casts right at which is like. Let's hear with with this. Celebrity is thinking about this or their newest movie or whatever might be run-up not trying to bring on those people with huge pop culture followings. There there's so many incredible people though. And this is our seventy a regional episode says. There's so many incredible people that are out there The people we've talked to an over the ones we haven't like yourself that are out there working so hard to improve our condition And that's me speaking as a white guy which to say like it's not that bad Our world our air our water. Our soil Our bodies To improve the lives of those that are suffering the worst who are the most disadvantaged or part of a system that was designed against them People whose water and air is dirtiest. Who CAN ESCAPE? Keep Children with cancer artificial intelligence researchers all these people that are just trying to do something profound and Just because they're if there's anything we've picked up on a and I've realized myself going long and I feel like Brian does too 'cause he walks in and just me with my head. My hands half the time Just because these people are infinitely more intelligent and driven and capable than we are doesn't mean that Shit just doesn't get hard doesn't it overwhelming and doesn't just become like fucking too much time right and and a lot of the reason is because they are often in the position of being the first to know some really bad news or to be the bearer of bad news or the ones that they think on the other hand again. We don't just talk about negative stuff. They're the ones that think. They're on the cusp of some incredible pediatric cancer discovery. Only to be you know setback once again which is just what sciences. But that doesn't mean it's just not heart. I mean again. I feel it and I'm just a fucking white guy with a newsletter and a podcast right. I'm not out there doing these things but I but I do want to do a better job of digging into this element of it because like you said we have had time and chances and we've known the answers of the thing we needed to do for so long and there's a variety of reasons why we're not doing things on but there seems to be this common core and it feels like you you have you have come to terms with an an understand it and you're actually addressing it and working on that working on the people behind our future and how they're doing and saying how how are you which is such a fundamental question So that's why this one really means so much to me. Because I get it and so I've sort of stolen the famous. Comics Watchmen tagline. Who Watches the watchmen which is in a? Who's fixing the people fixing the planet so If talked me about you you had your drunk And you had these revelations where where did you go from there? Where were you in your life at at that point with your work and then and then how did you pivot? And where did you go from from there to start working in this a slightly different direction? At that point I was running a national climate organization that had an office in DC office in the bay. A team of twenty to forty. All the things. And I left. I left after being there for under a year and I walked off a cliff if I had to is picture without felt like I was beyond burned out. I found out that year my husband and I we're GONNA have a lot of trouble having kids and it took four years to have our first child. It was hard. It was hard all around and I had come to a full circle my career as well. I started as an aggressive aid that organization and then team back six years later is the Executive Director. And that was my goal professionally was to be executive director of National Climate Organization so to have achieved it into realized that that wasn't my actions. Oda Genius was really hard so I just opened myself up. I got A. I was a puddle on the ground I she loves and did a lot of reflective practice went to the forest quite a bit in his asked that question born in year four and one amendment to do and that was when I was introduced to soil health and soil carbon sequestration in soil. Fertility is an actual intervention climate. Change in a deeper way so I started a business since started doing batik. Consulting around supporting the advocates of soil health to do their systems change work even better and to incorporate diversity and inclusion and that for a few years and was really excited about it but at some point I did start to notice this trend whether I was working with someone in regenerative agriculture or national climate or working talks that we're doing big foundation work a water oceans. All of them seem to have this thing in common where they were. They were deeply struggling with personally had a sustain themselves knowing what they know and then how to take personal stability and actually translated into tangible impact. And that's why I feel like my sweet spot is because yes. It is personal solely impersonal coaching and support. But on the other hand it's taking the concept thriving personally into your systems change work as a strategy and I learned that from soil. I just I can't really say enough about soil because when I first started working with soil the thing that came up for me the most was how you can't fake infertility like you're building soil. Help you chant detached degrade any other system. But you can do that if he were water. Animals if you work with any other thing and so I I looked at what it really takes to build soil health and a level of complexity of relationships you have to build with the organisms and minerals and all of the things underneath the soil to build healthy things above the soil. So then I started thinking what if we created? What if we took what it takes to build healthy soil underneath the ground and took those strategies and use them to build healthy soil between the activists? Advocates the policymakers the organizations and the businesses working to save our planet and then whenever they grow from that healthy fertile place will benefit all of us. And the last thing I'll say about this is that that's what soil health advocates. Tell Rangers and partners if you build healthy soil everything else become your healthy animals? Your healthy crops income all of it and so that's my proposition for the admire. Movement is if we build healthy advocates activists practitioners businesses and organizations. All of our strategies might actually start working. How `bout that how about 'em apples will not be wide policy. Passed here and there. We met actually get industry to stop. Stop the DUGGARY right. I will a I know it's it's it's so compelling. It's a wonderful algiere metaphor. I guess which whichever way you want to place it but it does matter. It's it's it's from again. Keep doing these things out there. It's it's building the ground up right and like you said right. You can't fake the the fundamentals and I wonder do these to these people ever feel. I know there's plenty of people that are in lots of positions in the world. That feels sort of a a hero complex or Or they just feel like they're some of my be just very focused on their work in some might see the bigger implications. I think that's becoming harder not to these days. Is there ever a sense of? I need to do better because everyone needs to Is it we find. I talk a lot about the kids. Here when we're talking about Our minds work or fieldwork. Sometimes which is the. I should do this. I should have done this. I should do this. You wake up and you're like a Mardi behind. I should do this. I should be at my kids thing instead of this too. I is there ever since of like if I'm articulating this very well but you know I I I should have my shit together because because this is the moment when we need to do that and and I guess how does that make or break. People does it often inspire them to to do that or to work harder to take care of themselves better or does it break them or is that just not out there at all. I'm kind of curious. It's one hundred and fifty percent out there. Ads is one of the reasons why talk about environmentalism and social justice social equity kind of in the same breath because she liked both of those camps. Have this realization that the problem actually does require all of us. There is no person who cares about water and marine life that is going to stop biodiversity loss in the oceans themselves. They know that not only do. They need their allies but they need the people who are actively destroying biodiversity in the ocean to listen to them too. And when you get to that deep replace within yourself when you realize that you can't control other people especially the people that most need to change according to you and your thoughts and your strategies right as she like increase the sense of hopelessness and it's a seat of hopelessness that we try to buffer wish community building and tactics and all the things that we build around ourselves personally professionally to keep going but the seed of hopelessness still rose and in the social justice movement. It's the same way as an African American woman. I often have the pot for my son to be safe in. The world is going to require a shift of hearts and minds that is shifting five hundred years of a global economic system. And so how do I how do I do that? I do I do that. What can I do in my lifetime? It's going to impact and finally when you get reports like we have twelve years left until we get to irreversible tipping point. It's like Shit Mike is GonNa be in middle school. My kid is going to be middle school. Is he going to have an opportunity to get married? So these are the kind of thoughts when it comes to should all of those things creed this orchestra in our minds of no literally now is the time. I don't have time to enjoy myself. I may not have time like whatever issues having with my husband right now. I literally heard where my coach inclined to say that the other day yes having issues with my husband right now but I can't take six months off to do deep counseling As we only have a few years left. This is crucial. The election twenty twenty is coming next year if my marriage survives the election then I'll think about it. I feel like I honestly feel like this is just a backwards way of thinking like. That's my strong and bold opinion on subject. Is that True Millennia. Humans have thought this was the final era that we were all going to die. And even if it's true were so here in the present moment and it's that it's that deeper non dualistic practice of non attachment that's going to create the kind of innovation environment. Psychologically emotionally and practically it will create the miracles that actually provide a pathway for our future. We have to know what the Miracle Pathway is. And that's what. I'm trying to help us all build that miracle. Pathway is it's GonNa take magic and miracles of this tweet. Yeah that's that's kind of the hole we've dug isn't it It's GonNa take a lot of hard work and just some shit to go away. You know whether it's the whether it's you know someone solving the battery storage problem or carbon sequestration All the sudden super affordable and really productive and things freight when I stayed at. We'd had the answers for decades Mount Literally. Mitt truly the patents. Are there the research? Is there one of the biggest things that came up? In my regenerative agriculture circles is the lack of peer review journals on regenerative agriculture. Some of that is because it takes four people to approve a peer reviewed article and half the time one of those scientists of before. We'll just say I just don't believe that. I have no context for this kind of data. I've never seen it before. It's probably not true. It's a of imagination on our parts when we want to do something as a species. Look look look look back to get into real to talk ready ready when we when the colonists in America said we need people to work the land here. There's nothing there's not enough of US okay. Let's try and save many Americans. Oh no they know. That land is not going to work. Okay thank so. We need another plan. Let's go to Africa. Let's figure out how to transport Millions of people. I mean the scale of the Trans Atlantic slave trade. You WanNa talk about innovation. They created Modern Day insurance. There are so many things that we have in modern times that we take for granted that the slave trade developed because they needed to innovate a new economic system to work the land that they wanted to possess like we are incredibly innovative. We've just used our innovation to create things like slavery and we need to use our innovation to fix that Shit in twenty years ten years of my way and we can do it. We have to believe that we can't so that's where I get on my soapbox and I'm like we are walking Stardust bitches. Of course we can do this. And it's not even that hard. It's just a failure of imagination. So I try to get all of those all of us together. Who had that see that? It's possible inside of us and we work together. I love it and I think the comparison is is is apt. I mean you know we used for this horrific thing. that You know hasn't exactly lit up. It's just in different forms of course for the past couple of Hundred Years Since it quote unquote slavery formerly ended. But but the things have come up like you said we designed a whole new system and it's It's a ridiculous comparison but it's the same not the same. It's it's you you know when people say. Why did we go to space? And it's like well. Do you like your phone. You know. That's when things came from Adak. That's that's how it works is we said. Let's go to the moon and people like we just designed an airplane ten fucking years ago like how are we going to go to the moon and it's like figure it out it's fucking figure it out exact and we did and we can do that again and and you know? I think a lot of people talk with green new deal and things like that. It's going to require World War Two level mobilization. It's like well we'll okay. Let's fucking by good now. Yeah it's just like I I. My nuclear family isn't as full as Original nuclear families in full of Counseling and therapy professionals like yours. But but I've married into one that is and I've always appreciated as a as a you know human who deals with things and as an athlete we have always had plenty of counseling and things like that and and so I do appreciate it And it does it. Does it does matter and it. It makes such a difference to to look at things through through that scope to look at it and say like. Oh we have to. We have to do these hard things and you have to look at it through that perspective and say look I understand why. You're scared of the scope of World War Two mobilization door that seems like a lot like. Do we really have to do that again? In the answers. Yup We do like it's with. I also feel like one of the things that comes up for people which is why the way that I do. My work is the way it is. Is that when we have a belief that stern that it's probably possible? It's not like you can snap your fingers and just decide the next day or that moment that it's possible it is possible to snap your fingers and get inspired right. That's where speeches come in for. Podcasts COME IN DODGE AWARE. Inciting incidents is come in. But then you need a container to constantly remind your brain that it's expanding to to support your brain not regressing into contracts that don't fit the new beliefs that you're trying to have and that's why having consistency and community reinforcement is so important. It's gotta be done over long in a creative time where it just becomes union normal in its nuanced work. We dig into a lot of our personal pain in that because a lot of our beliefs around. It's possible it can't be done. That should start a little. You know we had that we had infinite possibilities a child and somewhere we at reinforced over and over again that whatever. We imagine maybe wasn't even possible. It's just home it's idealistic. It's naive whatever we ascribed to it and so the the work of UNMAKING. That is actually work. And that's why I work with environmentalists and folks that are social change advocates. Because if you're in that work some part of you already believes that there's a point to trying to work at all this and so I I wanNA take that precious. Its such a precious tender place to say I feel like I'm destroying things and I don't mean to I feel like I'm the scarcity that I'm holding incited me as breaking me and fear. It might be breaking things that I love and care about too. Is there helped us? Because is there something I can do to come from a different place that actually have intact so that this actually works. And yes there is but it's tender. It's precious that needs to be held if such I think of two things on on what you're just saying which is one. I found this And we've so enjoyed a our conversations before this were you would allow me fifteen minutes and I would just lay waste to it district schedule as we talked about children and such But I I found this My my I have a multitude of children. They're a bit older than yours. And I've tried to learn some things along the way as well as I picked up my own family and friends and mentors and things like that but it is really simple. Little thing I found this great Looks like a little like a pennant flag like college type pennant flag and I hung it in this little playroom that they have just says. Start with yes and to me. That's what we try to keep that going no matter what and my wife is a creative human as well and and just has this infinite sort of spark of of yes and why not and things like that and we try to infuse them with it because the world will just beat that right the fuck out as soon as a Ken and like you said. It is such a tender and and Can Be it can be brittle and easily shattered spark that everything else will try to. So I feel like it's I've taken it upon myself to make that my job as much as I can Instead of saying like that we teach them like. I can't do this. It's hard and I just need help. And that's fine. That's great. You know I admit the like things are hard all the time and I need help whether from them or from wife or whoever else sometimes Brian but start with yes and and if we can if we can keep that going you know Hanno man. It seems idealistic. But it's like maybe I don't know maybe we'll save the place. Maybe maybe it's funny that you say that because I I often wonder where like where my drive came to keep some of this and some that start and I come from an entertainment family and In College I studied theater. And My improv professor still is one of my favorite off and I feel like taking a whole year of Improv. Really helps me now as a leader and as an entrepreneur all things because the start with the US is like it's been paired with and keep saying yes jeff matter what and having that practice over and over again it really expands the imagination and I still take that into my work to this day. One of my clients At acilitator investor and philanthropist gatherings for them and you know these are these are family often these are merely strength book and I am a professional camp. Counselor I'll have them up on their feet singing little red wagon and Wassily Chick a boom and you can see in their faces when I asked him to stand up and repeat after me like pathways through. It's amazing so really injecting that spirit. I think that the way of being has to be modeled dress to change the way we oriented toward our work as well and our way of being has to be joyful and it has to be pleasurable and it has to be connective so that we associate that in our nervous systems with our work because half the time our nervous system associate difficult conversations actual threatening behavior and politics that make you sick to your stomach like the actual nervous system. Experience of being an environmental advocate or social justice. Advocate can be really shitty sometimes for a lot of times so having experiences where you're also showing your nervous system that you can do this. Work Choice really is really important. Yeah I agree. It's it's funny. I feel like I've had numerous experiences. And there's plenty of people who will boop who on this for a variety of reasons half of which I do understand but I feel like I've had Folks I've worked with who've played sports In some capacity and and I can always tell if they have had experiences where they've been losing in the fourth quarter before and how they handle almost failing or failure or stressful situations or stressful situations. Where you're almost feeling with a team in which a role is in that and not calling people out. And and and persevering and things like that and it is a matter of like you said exposing yourself to that over and over again so you can learn how to do it so that when the time comes and he like twelve years. Yeah well fuck okay. I mean it's it's GonNa be hard but You know we we can. We can do this thing. And that's one of the things that drives me so completely insane when when we put out things like the green new deal which are still being entirely fleshed out but are so obviously needed in. The first thing you see is like Oh. We can't do this as too expensive. It's like motherfuckers like try to help. Just take one second in line to try to be helpful. Like can't you see that everything is on the line here? Just I'm not saying you have to agree but start with like in and yes and keep going right and and just be just be helpful and it helps everyone sanity helps progress at it helps the whole thing or a man actually so asked one of the first things I do. Folks is look at that pathway of resistance to acceptance an invitation and putting forward bold ideas is important because it reveals our own and others resistance to it. What are the beliefs that need to be shifted for this to be true and resistance is useful because it shows okay so the these are the beliefs the limiting beliefs? That would need to shift for this to be possible. And I think one of the most important things that environmental and social justice leaders can do refined our ability to extended generous and boundaries. Invitation when we are experiencing resistance ourselves and we see resistance and others because a Lotta Times there. Those that are experiencing resistance that are primed for an invitation. The resistance is it's a direct away from an inquiry and curiosity and if we wiped the table of everyone who has resistance which. I feel like it's easy to do it's hard. It's hard to be resistant all the time. But you have to take care of ourselves so that land so like my curriculum when I worked with people is I. You prepare your soil. And that's doing that. Inner work around how you Orient. Toward Truth and non violence a lot of this. When you encounter resistance had a Macon indication that leads to acceptance like dirk fundamental how to be type work and the second phase is then Dole fertility and. That's the hard part because that's where you get into shadow work. That's what you get into your own demons. That's where you get into what it really takes to inoculate. Excellence within yourself. And the deeper excavation happens and in the last stage is then protect life and that's in your relationship spoke personally professionally. Those of the diversity and inclusion strategies. That's the systems thinking work. That's we really practical about how to protect life. Once you've prepared your slowing when you've built fertility and moving through a process like that it requires us to see ourselves in everything we don't like and that's the higher calling. I feel that is honest. Now is to take one hundred percent responsibility for everything we see wrong world and know that if we're noticing it that means it somewhere inside of us if we can learn to love that thing and transform that thing inside of US strategic a strategy of how to do it out there who just flow. It'll just come. Naturally you will find. The words does opportunity. You had to spend three weeks preparing for before you will have the natural capacity to do in two days. It's really its practical. It shorting amount of time that it takes to turn opportunity into impact of a yeah So are at Nicholas specific here. What are the breaking points that we're seeing? You know among all of the folks out there that people you've that you've worked with Is Is there a commonality? Hear you talking about personally for them. Were you told me? Yeah I I guess it could be either. I guess like I is there. A is there a commonality among the the folks that come to you is it. Is it a? Is it a personal breaking point? Is it a? Is it a public facing breaking point? Is it just a systemic breaking point Rigo like Oh Yep I've I've seen this. You're the third person this week I know with with with with this thing and I guess like what. Have you learned to Most practically address that. Yeah Yeah yes. So yes and big. Common Thread is speaking in the first person from the perspective of my clients. Now got it. I didn't doing what I've been doing for a while and it's been fairly successful but I feel like it's time to step into a deeper layer of leadership and I need some support which stepping into that deeper layer of leadership. Because I'M SCARED TO DO X. Quincy I may be scared to leave my current position. I'm scared to be more public facing. I'm scared to alienate my team. Because somebody new just came in above me. I'm scared to so there's like really practical. Things are looking at where they're stepping into a deeper layer of their leadership. And they need some help doing that. That's a real common thread that I've seen the last six months in particular. That's compelling is there a is there do you find that? There is a common reason reason that prompted them to do that. That makes sense. I E no it makes total sense and I've been sitting with that myself because when I look at it. There's this there's an underlying sense in most of them okay. So it's twofold on the one hand I am. I feel the emotional resonance when they come to me like what I said. Verbally sounded pretty practical right but the emotional residents when they come to new for There's tears when they talk about this and so I can feel the I'm not being fully who I am and it hurts. There's pain in their would devoting their lives to something but feeling like they're not getting back what they need to and a lot of times. They're in there you know early forties mid forties and I think they're seeing the barrel of moving into the third phase of my life and I don't want to be happy person anymore. So anchoring you've devoted your whole life to causes you do get to the point where it's gotta be whole bust. This is not going to work anymore. So I think that's underlying reason as fascinating and there's got to be. I mean I imagine it's a wide variety of of even further underlining underlying Can can conditions in causes and beliefs and feelings and experiences from like. I'm scared to take on the next thing. Or Am I intellectually ebb? I'm I'm scared to find out if I'm intellectually capable of the next thing or if my leader leadership qualities are up to task or or has it all been worth it or is the it's fascinating. Tata unpack all that but at the same time you know going back to helping them fortify and and be inspired in the sense of like and and we need you to do this and and this. You know this caused need you to do this. And have enough. That's that's really interesting so I imagine and this is where you know we. We started this thing. I started this thing originally because I'm I'm a Sifi screenwriter and I've always been interested in civic duty in the news and things like that but For my work I've seen a lot of science and technology and space and cancer and Earth Ocean News Because it influences my work uh so I keep up with that stuff but I realized there was a whole bunch of a couple of years ago. Whole bunch of like really vital stuff happening really good and really not good. That most people weren't seeing the news because the facebook feed was filled with cats and other shit like that before facebook really broke everything And so I just said. Hey I'll put together a little newsletter and it's just this is like the five really important things you missed this week Besides the day to day stuff that comes and goes and this is the stuff that's going to last the maker break stuff And then of course everything has really changed over the past year and a half as as it seems like democracy is fighting for its life every day in a different way a different battle. So I do so. I do empathize with with people. Feel like like every day. The open their phone sofres. It's like what fresh hell is. Am I going to so i? I imagine if we had a different political situation this would be relatively easier so not not only would we not have a day to day nightmare of a human and a collection of humans around him in charge we would conversely be probably making a least some progress towards fighting this thing right the antithesis of best maybe not the World War Two level operation that so necessary but but something so instead what we have and again I try to step back and look at how both the again the people like yourself that are out there doing this? The people that you're that you're treating and working within coaching And then just R- and just the politicians people that can actually enact low legislation and the people that put them in office. I try to take a step back and objectively see at all and empathize in different ways. But the reality is we have the ticking clock that's ticking faster and it's closer than we thought and every time we assess it we realize it's even closer than we thought we so so we have these predictions that are becoming almost irrelevant shortly after they're made but we also have and we do try to balance this year we have these incredible tantalizing glimpses of of hope and progress. It almost. It's almost as if sometimes it feels like they're too hard to hear knowing we we. We can't affect them yet until whatever it is January. Twenty twenty one bright. You have an incredible number of clean energy jobs That anybody could qualify for whatever you know your your race or background in which a previous degree was and we need so many more the price of clean energy has come down to be competitive with everything blows everything out of the water. It's cheaper now to knocked out to close and knock down a coal plant and build a new clean energy plant whether wind or solar then to keep that cold going Batteries have come down so much in price if if not storage so but but at the same time. It feels like if feels like we're in this almost like a terrible like one of those nightmares. You cannot wake up from even though you know. It's a nightmare like my wife and I always joke about. She had these super super creepy basement growing up. And everyone always had that feeling. You're down there and you think something it's dark and something's coming off this fucking stairs as fast as you can get up stairs right and it's like we're constantly running from the monster down below and you see the light at the top of the stairs and you know it's there but it feels like you can't get up there like there. There is some some hope. They're against us. Ticking clock and I'm curious can the people you're working with. See the light still see these things that are happening and what do you and what can you do and and we do to help them see it again to to hold onto it and and how can we do that for for regular folks does any of that make any sense. It's entirely possible does no. It's a good question and I'll answer that question with a little bit of context so yes I do think that people in working with CONC- it in I would do our job to protect those things but for some context so you just described. It's just it's so much worse than it might be different with a different political situation and one of the ways that I like to describe the past clinical situation with our current one. Is it if we were inside the never ending story the previous administration was like we were flying on bellcore soaring above fantasia? Chilin Dean. You this whole thing already wherever you're going now like Hella happy and shit. Sure while what's happening in fantasia is nothing is eating everything. Our current administration is we are in the cave with the mork facing mortgage telling us to our faces. Oh Yeah I'm helping nothing. No Yeah 'cause no power the fuck you got in court sick shit this whole time while. I was flying on Abuse Dragon. You're saying that you were helping nothing. Destroy everything so I feel like we. We've been tearing ourselves apart since the beginning of this country. We were founded on genocide and slavery. Of course the nothing has been ripping US apart. The point is that now we. I actually feel like we're in a more honest clear time. Never been and it's really dangerous because when you do shadow work and you start walking that journey the wolf the wolf can consume you. That's the point that's why people don't start Internet journey. 'cause it gets real dangerous. And so the way to mitigate that danger is to be super responsible with. What's real what we're seeing having a consistent orientation toward transformation and skill practical skill for how to create the transformation and doing what you're saying always knowing being super clear good practically speaking data wise were living in the safest time in human history. There's more of US alive and are able to stay alive than in any other time in history. The potential impossibility is there it is literally our orientation toward always seeing bad things because it just the way humans have built us right now so two things one is. You're right a I'm from Virginia originally and Still spend part of part of the year back there and Literally from Colonial Williamsburg which is right next to Jamestown where the first British very first British permanent British settlement Was the fourth there where we originally started to take the land from from native Americans and and it it so I have friends who are archaeologists there in the whole thing and and what you come to understand is like this incredible beautiful place on this river. And all these things and at the very beginning was a cluster fuck and that is what it has been built on for from from the very beginning. I mean it's where the first The first slave continental US showed up in sixteen nineteen Aside from what we did to the native Americans who who We're not perfect The themselves in when you really dig into it and but at the same time I mean what we came with and the things we wrought are just horrific and we just continued to do that and then we designed a whole system around it and and you know we are now seeing and have seen for longtime in a lot of folks have been seeing this forever others the a great someone had at an had at tweet online about like. This isn't African Americans first existential crisis. you know. I'm so glad for teaching you how to March in the streets. Which is you know just true. It's like a it's been going on for wiles. Just a different flavor of it for ignite also just want to interrupt quickly lose this point you said about how native Americans weren't predicting there I feel like it's it's important from historical point of view to note that we all built this together. I'm not a student of native American history so I won't speak to that but six years of African American studies certainly made it clear that the African slave trade was booming and driving in really sophisticated before the Portuguese showed up and it was Africans that chose to mark their own people from interior to the coast so that the slave trade could be on scale that it was fun. So it's not like white folks came to Africa and all of a sudden beautiful kings and Queens in Egypt or some shit which advantage of that is not the story to groups of very sophisticated civilizations to too sophisticated civilizations came together and said we're going to build something together we're both going to profit from it and then we'll be losers and it's time for all of us to acknowledge their own part in that and to stop fucker into create something different and I I I wanNA clarify. Do not seek to to speak for native Americans or native American history. I it is just again having having lived there my entire life and studied and try to understand it and and you know they had no. There was nothing written down so anything that was written down comes of course from the English journals but also the oral history. Which is you know you watch the Disney Pocahontas movie and everything seems wonderful and the truth. Is You know. Palestinians oldness barely holding together this kingdom that he had just put together and and they frequently undercut themselves and and and we're happy to hand over land in exchange for weapons to outdo each other and it was just the point is is like it was just fucking complicated because everything is always and of course the their their situation was different than the northeast which was different than the West and the point is there there was nothing perfect but of course our stance with things is white guys. Ruined ruined everything. That's the overarching layer. But I it's I dunno it like you said it's it's time to to to acknowledge all that and I feel like we're trying to all trying to do a better job to like you said to to to build something to build something new from it so when that's a big part of what it is that I do like when I say diversity and inclusion. I'm not talking about fifteen to twenty politically correct things that it's okay to say right right and I'm talking about the the data around history. What actually happened according to multiple sources? What's the complexity? Knowing that we can not ever know what actually happened or knowing the different peoples are complex. How can we all take responsibility? And how can we all have humility? How can we all grieve? How can we all extend a hand to ourselves into each other? How can we all forgive? How can we all acknowledge what we've lost? There's so much there but starting from this place of humanity and humility is really the way toward having an open. Heart and being healed and healthy selected trauma is with everyone sure and were and I think that's one of the things that come to understand why people put their fucking heads in the sand like this is in any other situation on asteroid. That's coming in twelve years and that's GonNa make a lot of people real sad and just figure like why do things and like what. Why do I need to do something or this is really hard? Arrived tried to crack how to blow an asteroid upper to move in. And I got a setback or this and this and this earth might make you decide not to have children or whatever it might be and that's not forget you know again the four hundred five hundred years of systemic slavery and racism or what we did to native American peoples or all the other situations around the world which are all equally fucked. That's not to say just because he asteroids coming like we should all hold hands and forget it all. It's just like we we now. Desperate is coming and we have to find a way to build a new way going forward and and we also have to include similar things. And that's why appreciates a one of our previous guests who I feel like you would love if you haven't met as as Riana gun right and she's one of the folks Writing a lot of the legislation for the green new deal and she keeps having to defend over and over why it's so important to include equitable jobs and an equitable future. Going forward and it when people say we should save that for later and hope. Praise like no. We have to do it all now like you. You have those things have to be included because it's the right thing to do but also because those people can then contribute and we need to contribute. You don't have a war to level mobilization without everyone contributing. That's not the way it works the way to lose right and and we can't lose this one It's slight pivot and I know we're seeing a lot of your time but I I couldn't be enjoying this more. Do you feel like now Nikki. That you're on the right path. Personally do you feel taking care of? How's how's your soil? Yeah who's WHO's watching? Nicky who's watching nick good question. So after I had the breakdown in twenty fourteen hundred years of trying to have beatty. I'll tell you it'll make you ask all the questions about your life in how you're living in what you need to thrive on so I my I'll just say I I understand took my wife and I had the same amount of time and and and tears and all the science and difficulties in I get it. Yeah so I I wanted a life for myself that prioritizes my health and sanity and that's the only way I was able to actually come in Cali. You know I started my business doing consulting work strategic salting and doing doing basically the systems change work. I had done before just only with the people that I thought were on the cutting edge and I wasn't able to actually fully pivot to the song of my heart and when I actually think we're until really deeply stabilized my life so my husband watches out for my soil may best friends watch out for my soil. I also not intentionally but my friendship circle did a huge turnover in twenty fourteen. Where friends I'd had for majority of my young adult life when away and there was this new crop people that ended up coming into my life and strangely the handful of that I have is. There's a handful of people that I keep very very close to me. The three of the five of them are older. You know. They're like a generation above me and that wasn't intentional but I feel like there was a there was an acknowledgement of what I'm moving into in my life and so I feel like I. I support system. I go to church every Sunday and I haven't been a church every Sunday since I was like well but having a kid I was like in order to knock. You'll let has been writing business doing all the things I truly meet someone every Sunday being like you have a God force within you act like it and I'm like okay. Okay that's right right right okay. That's right so what I what I see that metaphor. I have metaphors around personal cover. Cropping in internal composting and like hey. I do all of these practices myself so when I noticed myself rotting when I noticed that I've been extracting the nutrients for myself without doing cover cropping or any of those things will actively put things in place including the people around me who have more perspective on me than I do Yeah that's that's timely. For me an eye at my my wife literally found me About a week ago she. She got all the kids down. Which usually I love to contribute to and then she wandered into living room wondering where I was and I was hiding under a blanket with a pulled over my head going. It's all too much she was she was like. Oh boy here. We go bike. You haven't been doing the meditation exercise the whatever and it was both logistical too much. Because we're we're bootstrapped in small over here but also just the the the the heaviness of that all not putting those things into practice that keep just keep. I'm not I'm I'm never going to be like high high flying with this. I I've come to terms with but keeping a healthy head above water was not not the case in that moment so like you said with your husband and those people close to you. It is important to cultivate those so that they like you said they have more perspective on you than than you do and and can notice and say like hey hey man gotta whatever. Your thing is take step back to nature. It's an ice cream. Whatever whatever the thing is because otherwise. You can't help people right exactly. Is there besides at that moment drinking in DC with these with these folks? Is there a specific relationship? You can point to that was a catalyst for your actions to get you where you are today so when I think about relationships I think I'm GonNa say Black Women in I'll I'll explain that my board chair. When I was a young executive director at a local organization was black. My board chair at the national climate organization was a black woman. They're both black women and I spent a lot of my younger career resisting and being a defensive and combative with the Black Women in my life. We're trying to help me and I feel like a lot in my professional journey can be seen as arc of me rejecting certain parts of myself so hard that I actually couldn't stand to be around strong black women in some ways narrow black there were strong black women in my life that I deeply loved and helped me through that but the ones that resembled me most couldn't stand him and I feel like now to be in this place in my life where I have black women in my life that I just adore so much and I. I've come to love myself in a way that's really different. I think that that relationship that archetypal relationship with the black woman quote unquote has changed me. More than anything else. I can describe black. Women have been the ones who've been able to tell me about myself in ways that I wasn't able to hear and that I needed to rattle around in my brain for two years before I could hear it and taken on black women have been the ones to hurt me the most. I've been the one to hurt. The the women heard my life. The most are black women. There's been a lot of pain. There's been battle. And there's been credible healing and I feel like I'm looking forward to for the rest of my life honoring and being Hummel in in service to black women myself included. What was your turning point that or just in during a around. That what what? What was I guess? The realization was a was it a with an a- An intervention from from someone or or people close to you was in an internal thing and and and how did you make that transition so it was a part of my break down twenty fourteen. What am I best friends my board chair and my mother all black women and I had these insane falling outs with them that same year and my coach my executive coach at the time was super clear. That like well wherever you go there you are. The common thread here is that one is always such a asman. Oh she me. So when I was doing my internal excavation around all the things that one was a core one because I am a black woman and so I just needed to face this thing about how I couldn't. I couldn't advocate for social justice and I couldn't there was I was carrying so much pain around my love for my people and feeling so attacked in so judged in so shamed in all of these things that I grew up with and I think I just got to the point where I realized I wasn't going to be old unless I looked at that and I looked at it in space and really took it on and the turning point was me honestly just taking some space from leadership for second. Which is why. I really advocate for that with other meters that we get to these points. Where we there's the deeper excavation work we have to ourselves. We can't do in public and we can't do it while holding a team of forty people. We can't do it. We'll have a new show on TV and be coherent in which five hours notice on the topic. We just learned about like the pressures of being in leadership like that means that we only have finite time and there are times that we need to spend that that precious energy energy that we have on ourselves and not spending on other things so I took a step back before I started my business and I did some work. And that work was the turning point acknowledging that I needed to do that and acknowledging that I was going to be in more pain on a day-to-day basis for a little while until learned how to carry that and transform it in a way that was functional and constructive for me but I I would just have to acknowledge that I was going to have to let it in and not try to do about it and I needed some space to do that. It's a lot. It's a lot that moment when you acknowledge you have to. You have to let it in your. You're not allowed to do anything about it for a little bit. And it's it's GonNa hurt. Yeah it is a lot. It's a lot of work but you I. I mean having been in the same same place for for for different reasons and everyone has different reasons that hopefully people can get to this kind of place and obviously hopefully the people. You're working with get this kind of place with with all of your incredible help is a hopefully at that moment. I know if I had a glimpse of but I can see why this is an important thing to do. Because it's the only way forward in in truth in the most productive way right. Which is it cyclical when it comes to leaders. You know being responsible for money people. Resources is the quickest way to show us where I just and it's not. I don't think it's responsible to take on leadership that pushes right to your edge in shows you your ass and support. Suu With practicing showing your ass in public period of time. There's this turning. Will we get more destructive than constructive as leaders for at our edge and leaders has to be simple? That's why the for your election cycle is what it is is because you can't take that kind of pressure for too long period of time but so many our leaders so many of us do not cycle. We don't set back in innings away for a meaningful stretches of time and so we're breaking shit and it's not cool. Yeah that's not helpful. Yeah Man I. I can't thank you enough for this. Today's is truly been enriching and Profound and I I hope I hope it helps people and I hope mixed difference in. Obviously I hope people can can see and understand what a valuable human and resources and Yeah that you are. And you're providing these people I just messaged Quinn that. I hope everybody like this better. Be The most listened to podcasts. That we've ever done just podcast ever or even just just everyone's sweep i. I'm having one of the zone ability hangovers right now. I'm like wow. I just went into lake the closet black. I talked about environmental been saving people. They planted But that's how it is right. This is saving the people and I am included in that and I just I have a lot of respect for you to her. Being into this conversation is gracefully as you did. So thank you. We're trying. I'm grasping at straws flailing in the water. But but I'm just desperately try not to fuck it up that that's the goal at this point Yep much he wants. You take us home okay. Let's let's go home So let's let's get into some action Here You know so. Many so many people Our listeners and our readers and everyone else with so much to deal with and then And then this you know I fully understand why they you know. Turn it off I I want to turn. I always always want to turn it off. That's easy answer. Yeah because it's so easy What progress have you made in helping? People look look forward to keep making progress. You know fighting fighting the good fight and how can Those of us who are not nearly a skilled are trained in this issue. I do. The same would have best practices in an act at. Tell me tell me what to do. Gotcha so if you are in environmental or social justice leader catch yourself before you slip into the kind of hopelessness or avenue. That is difficult to come back from. Do your work to surround yourself with enough joy and pleasure were you are triggering your nervous system in the best way possible so that you stay on the good side and when you feel at your at your edge in a way that's not good take a break. That's what you can do and get some help. And for everyone else to beauty of building social fertility. When I look at it on soil fertility is that there's more organisms in a tablespoon of soil than there are people on the planet the level of complexity required to build fertility isn't massive so literally every single person if you do your part to spark imagination creativity and innovation with whatever. It is that you care about. You are doing your work to be the best kind of microorganism in our social soil. And if we all do our part at the same time we will have social fertility and be able to then by accident. Fix All the problems that we have. Because that's what helped me soil. Does it grows nutrient dense gorgeous. Nece by accident and we can do that if we all do. Our part awesome. That sounds pretty good. Yeah so all right looking looking outward a bit more what once people have taken care of their soil and they're feel as settled in and ready as prepared as as they can be allocating. The none of us ever gets back to to to perfect to square one. How can and this new questions? We we ask everyone And and so they vary you know how can folks us there what we like to say their voice their vote and the dollar so starting with their voice. What do you feel like? Are The big actionable specific questions. The rest of us should be asking of our representatives. Why are you really not deletes ask? That's the key question. Cut The ship. Or why are you really not doing? And what would it take you to actually do it and tell me the truth? I think that's about as honest as A. That's pretty good. What should we be asking? Tell me can you tell me the truth? Pretty good are we. What are we doing about x? And when they don't have an or or what are you doing about x? And and and then. Why are you not doing this and like you said give it give it to me straight? I'm ready to take it now. Yes that's good. I feel like we can stop asking this question of people now. I think we have fun. Took seventy fucking time. Yeah we'll just say it's not like you're gonNA call your presentative. Ask that question and get a reasonable answer. It's all about going to the AIDS. Be Like Yo homey real talk. Sure sure sure would they need? Yeah what's happening? Yeah someone someone around them has to fucking get it right and it has to be like me and make sure this is. Somebody know somebody know was happening. Intel was happening. And you know whether you need to do a smear campaign then you at least yeah right right east time. I'm just we're done with the time. Wasting everyone's gotTa Thing. What is the what is the thing? If that means that person's not great get the fuck out eight exactly. I feel like that's our next on which is like what do we do with our vote which is just to do. I don't know usually comes down like we can eliminate this a little bit because it's like do we'll do the right thing but the right fucking people in right. Well no I mean I think honestly one thing I've seen. Is this this rabid obsession with the federal level of government? Oh yeah and that's not. Where is that the people I talk to don't know what the fuck is happening? In their own steady it goes like wait. Ditto interested city council and it's like no when it comes to your vote pay more attention to the local levels. Then the national level's national levels Hellawell paid people are doing that analysis lots really good stuff eatery local level when you ask that question. What do you actually care about? What would it take for you to do this to actually get a really answer? Yeah you'll talk to a person this motherfucker in the grocery store so you can. Actually you like yeah you get right now. Though I had seen the Stang Right Ryan the newspaper and I have been wondering so things can change at that municipal regional state level women up to that and it's not some broad abstract question or answer that you're asking or looking for because it's you both drink the same fucking water ryan lors an ask direct questions. Like ICE T. You grew up in X. way do not like Labor right like ask a direct question. If they deflect reclaiming my time. Do you not actually. Yeah yes super important. We talk about that a lot on here. We we just talked to great conversation. We talked to Catherine Dawn. Who Runs flippable? Which is now part of swing left. And they've been hyper focused on the state stuff demand littman overrun for something. Who same thing which is like a which is just like an then then fucking run run for city council run for run for mayor run for state legislature. Because that's going to make a fucking difference and also don't sleep on those appointed positions. No stop only vote. We don't even fucking vote for anything anyway for the few of us that do stop waiting every four years for just the president. Yeah alright okay. Hey I know he said it already but I feel like I'm just gonNA keep saying it all day long even just to myself. Thank you so much for this incredible talk. Thank you for chatting with us. We really appreciate you Thank you only last. Couple of their quick When always with the criticism that was the point today Bryant give it a rest Nikki? When was the first time in your life when you realize that you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful when I step when a when I or horrible contest? Entry what we need to hear more about that clearly so I I come from an entertainment family. I mentioned that was on stage at my elementary school. Pretty Young Age doing. I don't know if you know the people could fly but it's a it's a tale of African folks. It's a collection of African folk tales written by Virginia Hamilton. And I would do a dialect like a west African dialect in the first grade and tell. Folktales was African folktales in costume. And I won like a orval speech contest doing that and poetry and different things I think you know being like eight or however I was holding a hundred people in the palm of your hand and being able to see the influence. I was like okay. This is legit and then because my parents ran a foster family agency they would always get free tickets to stop to take the kids to so I was seven at a beach. Boys concert backstage may be onstage because they saw that any of the lyrics to Barbara and it was like a huge stadium. And I'm like seven Barbara i-in with the beach boys in so experiences like that. I just taught me the power of that Both incredible does it and I feel like this could start an entirely new conversation. Does you lose your mind a little bit that your kid is only a few years away from you and first grade. Yeah it really does. It's weird when you go back that far and you think oh that's when it started and when you've got kids and you're like fuck that six months from now seriously seriously Who is someone in your life? That has positively impacted your work in the past six months so in the past six months she's been influencing me for four years but she was the one that came up the strongest. And so Sally Calvin who is one of my clients and she's an investor philanthropist. Who has a ranch? An investment firm and a foundation. Who's trying to rebuild the agricultural soils of America and in the last six months I've done several facilitated several convenience at her ranch and I think just to see someone like her comme her money in Silicon Valley. Who's like Yo? We have gained financial capital at the expense of ecological and human capital. We need to stop that. Shit and I'm going to bring other investors philanthropists to my home to be like stop that Shit and here's how you do it and she inspires me so much around What it looks like to tell the truth because she really cheat she tells the truth and she inspires everyday. That's awesome but it's like a it's like it's fucking revelation when you've got somebody like that in your life it really is queen. You're my that don't do that okay. The last year a little bit quicker this one. We ask everybody on every episode. But it's so perfect for for today's a topic what Nikki do you specifically do When you are feeling overwhelmed when you need to take a step back from the leadership in Munising Nikki time. What's your what's your breaking case of. Fire Self Care Karaoke and dancing to really loud music. Nice Karaoke Song For both yes so for the dancing on. I've called read. Which is this trio of native folks from Canada who do like Drum Base Powell? Bul name to drop Excellence and For Kariobangi pumped out of this. Okay as alien banks to one two. Oh yes it. I'm yeah that's fantastic do. When I ran up he lives been especially after. I have a hard I think yes. Sure sure. Just what is your heart anything? What's your Go-to night when you're like you said after you've had a hard Oeser saying oh I thought you meant like a hard drink. You're saying after a hard time little God. My mind went and drink to. What's wrong with this reward or SARD conversation John? Of course I too. Sorry about the book. We ruined the whole. Everything was going so well. Son of a Nikki. How do you consume the news at the week had a subscription to the week and I read it pretty religiously okay awesome? Here's a question for you If you could Amazon prime one book to Donald Trump What book would it be? God we have gotten We have name is on wishlist and people are listeners. Can Go there and Send the books our guest recommendations. We've gotten everything from coloring books to the Constitution to Some just a wonderful range So what what would be your gut instinct? Thank God does he read book on clear. I don't think it's unclear at this point but the point is is maybe someone will read it to. Maybe SOMEBODY WHO'S YEAR? He has will read. It is entry okay so the thing that's coming up for me. It was this book of my mom. Show coming up called. I hate you. Don't leave me okay. I'm pretty I haven't read it but I'm pretty sure therapy book about like the things that kids go through. I hate you. Don't leave me and he's been stuck there for a while so I'd probably send that let's do it awesome. Throw it in there. Brian done deal. Nikki where can people follow you on the on the Internet where you? Where's all your stuff mostly on instagram? Sylvestry I will respond if you demi and Nikki Sylvestry Dot com is my website and then if you WANNA see the consulting part of my work that I'm scaling down right now it's soil and shadow dot com awesome Brian do you have anything you want to say to the lady before we go what what did you say why. What are you putting me on the spot? Like I'm just asking I mean I'm just Forever indebted that. I just got to talk to you. That was incredible for me. I was I would say quieter than usual. And I'm usually pretty quiet is because I was having a very very good time listening to you And I'd be Jap just pretty trance. I really hope everybody hears this episode of not getting Thank you Nikki For for your time today For All the you've literally put in months of consideration into what we're going to dig in to today and I really appreciate that and And obviously for for all that you're doing out there for all these people in the world it is There's there's a light and every person you send back out there Is another person. That's going to get us there so we need you. We thank you. Thank you Will we will definitely have to do this again at some point. Yeah But we're GonNa let you go. I know you've been been trapped in there for a while so Thank you I'm GonNa go pee now Great thanks for telling us that. I'm I'M GONNA listen to two one two on blast lawyer out while you're in a good good girl grape have an incredible weekend and Yeah we'll we'll talk to thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp so weird also on facebook and instagram important. Not Important Interests Tumbler. The same thing so check us out. Follow US SHARE. Us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts. Keep the lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website important not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim Blamed for our gym and music. To all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day thanks guys.

US Brian Calvert Nikki Sylvestry cancer Africa Quinn Emmett Webbie Twitter Borton Dot Com Kennedy SCIENTIST
#94: How Can We Make Climate Science Fashionable? Allbirds Has Some Answers

Important, Not Important

1:08:26 hr | 2 months ago

#94: How Can We Make Climate Science Fashionable? Allbirds Has Some Answers

"Welcome to important not important. My name is Quinn Edit. And I'm Brian Calvert Kennedy. Why did you take that pause? I was thinking about how you said well. You always do. Come. It's really high and it's sort of inaudible and far away. Okay. Well, I'm just trying to spice it up at the beginning you know case people been. This Boring. Not Boring. This is the podcast segue man where we give you the tools you need to fight for a better future for who Brian every every one we give you the context straight from the smartest people on Earth and the action steps you can take to support them, tell them who who those people are Brian. I mean those people are scientists, doctors, their nurses, engineers, some of them farmers, a couple politicians, astronauts a reverend once a reverend business people the whole the whole, Shebang. They are fantastic and we have a great one today This is your friendly reminder. You can send questions, thoughts and feedback to us on twitter at important not imp. You can email us at fun talk at important, not important DOT COM. And you can join tens of thousands of other really smart people and not into our free weekly newsletter at important not important dot com. That's right. On this week's episode Brian Oh boy we're talking about the most comfortable and sustainable shoes on the planet that I know. All Birds Albert Alberts and our guests who is our guest Oh. Hana Koji Mora and she runs sustainability and one of my favorite shops. AUBERT's. That's right. She's here to talk about building sustainability into product from the very start. Using it as a competitive moat and using storytelling to improve fashions carbon footprint Because if the clothes we wear aren't telling a story, then I don't know what you mean us either short sweatpants and a t shirt. I guess at that point that same pair of pants and a shirt it's the same pair of pants all the time and always. Always overt. Yeah. We're just shells basically. So anyways, great conversation really enjoyed talking to Hana and I think you guys will too. She's awesome. The company's awesome. Let's listen. All right. Now. Our guest today's Hanukkah Jim. Mora and together we're talking about. Arguably the most sustainable and comfortable shoes on planet earth on a welcome. Thanks thanks so much for having me. I sure. We're happy. You're here start off I. Guess just by telling everybody who you are and what you do on we. So my name's Hannah and I lead sustainability at all birds Aldridge was founded as a B. Corp and a public benefit corporation back in two thousand sixteen as a footwear brand launching the world's first wool shoes incense expanding into other products. But. Sustainability has always been at the heart of what we do and I was lucky enough to join in early on about two and a half years ago to be responsible for both the environmental and the social impact of our products and business. That's awesome. I like that you say covers the environmental and social side because. I think it's pretty crystal clear to everybody that those things are things are pretty intertwined. or at least they need more so so cool we are. Albert's owners the both of US court quite a quite a few. Underwear apparently. Anyway. We'll get into. Quick Reminder for everybody. Our goal is to provide some context for our our topic at hand today, and then we'll dig into action oriented questions and what everybody out there can do. To to help support. Awesome. That sounds great. We like to start with one important question to set the tone of this. Instead of saying, tell us your life story we like to ask why are you vital to the survival of the species? Connect. I encourage you to be bolt. You're here. For a reason both talking into USB microphone or your computer but also. Figuratively thanks for the vote of confidence I. Think if we start with that premise of I am here for a reason I think I'm constantly searching for what that reason is in building upon that story but. Starting now I would say it's to figure out ways to use business as a force in solving the climate crisis. And then probably specifically within my role now. is to make climate science fashionable, which it sounds like you guys are very on board with to to be clear out fashionable we're behind the effort dwelling. UNLESS, we're wearing your shoes. That's. I think that's an interesting for Rian. In starting this job was realizing as someone who always cared deeply about climate and thinking that solar companies and. Electric vehicle companies were really where I wanted to put my effort that. Enjoining a fashion apparel company? Different industries certainly have different roles to play in solving the climate crisis and. Fashions probably not going to unlock. Global emissions reductions and save us from ourselves but I. Think what are superpower is is bringing the conversation into the mainstream and helping. Customers understand some of these more complex topics and excited about finding solutions to them I. Love It. I mean look it's GonNa take the kitchen sink right? It's It's not just about creating a nice new revolutionary fashion it's it's going to take. Personal actions and institutional and regulatory and corporate actions and startup actions and. Electric Electric Mike Got Coffee. Come on come on copy. Electric. Buildings. And it's going to take you know regulating the hell out of combustion engines and it's going to take fixing like you said, fast fashion, which will dig into which you know has some issues. Could definitely be helpful, but you can also be cool along the way. So I'm excited to dig into that. Today so Thank you for that honest response. We believe in you. That's where you're here. So. Tar some context for, today. Brian what our shoes back in the day. No I. Don't know knows rhetorical if you were lucky enough to be able to afford shoes way back there probably made of. Leather or depending on where you lived would maybe or canvas, but then everybody wanted choose and that wasn't super feasible for the local cobbler. So we started building companies that make shoes and building the amount of materials. Sort of final stage materials like rubber and plastic foam. So you can bounce on them or polyester and nylon, and now everybody gets shoes which is great. There's there's practical shoes. There's not very practical shoes. Sports shoes and luxury ones and heavy duty work ones and ones that are just specifically to be comfortable and waterproof ones, and the list goes on and on. The problem is the one thing that sort of unified all those for longtime they're made out of. Basically dinosaur bones, right knock knock great everybody loves dinosaurs. Keep them, keep them in the earth I'm so the extraction and this is just such a common theme with so many things these days and basically anything that came out of the twentieth century is. The extraction and the refinement and production of the raw materials to make your shoes not to mention the eventual. Discarding, or and or disposal of of such items. Obviously, it's not great. You know like our. Energy sources or your tupperware or your plastic bottles and your clothing. Another thing we're we're working on confronting right it's it's pastime to take a step back and go yes. It's great when everyone has shoes, the shoes in many places still are a measure of poverty there essential but we can also make them now radically more sustainable and we have to stop with the oil and and we gotta stop turning all the oil into this stuff that never breaks down and ends up. or either in the ocean and the air in our water and our bloodstreams, whatever it might be and just cut down so many lovely things along the way. So. I WanNa talk today with Hana. About building the most sustainable shoes. On Planet Earth Very. Excited about this. So Hannah fashion and I guess in particular this whole fast fashion thing the Zara of the world such right there. One of these. Building blocks of the climate crisis. It were increasingly aware of, but having exactly measured much less really taken on as emphatically as we are some of these other verticals, right? Like like the things I couldn't pronounce earlier like Electric Vacation and transportation and agriculture right? So. In doing some some research on on your company and yourself I heard you talk about fashion leading the climate fight through storytelling. What do you mean by that and why does it matter to to Orient Yourself that way? Yeah. So as you mentioned, there are still a lot of debate about the exact science numbers in what percentage of global emissions is our industry but best guests from a couple of different studies is that it's somewhere between five and ten percent of global emissions comes from apparel and footwear, which is. A single single digit percentage points may not sound like a ton but when you think about the universe of emissions, that's quite substantial for one industry to be responsible for all that. The reason why both it's so hard to measure. But also so significant is because it touches all of those other industries that you just listed like we source materials from agriculture were connected unfortunately to the petrochemical industry. We manufacturer in factories use electricity we ship things we sell them and retail stores, and so we're kind of picking up emissions across each step of that value chain. And it is hard to measure but we know our impact is is pretty significant. The flip side of that is that making meaningful reductions is really difficult because you're kind of picking off emissions from each of those phases once again and I do think those emissions reductions are enabled by advances in other industries like electric vehicles like ocean liners run on biofuels like solar panels at factories, and so ultimately, those technologies are going to be the ones that dig us out of the climate crisis. We need to keep pushing those technologies, but they're not going to be the ones that change the narrative and bring. The public into consciousness about caring about these issues of solar companies never GONNA be. The storyteller I don't think. I could be proven wrong whereas fashion in our industry has this particularly our business which has a direct relationship to customers has a direct line to tell those really emotional stories and help people understand really complex topics like carbon emissions and climate change. I really think that's That's the place that fashion apparel is going to have impact people already use i. mean they have forever right used fashion to tell the story about. Who they are and and I guess their status and. You know maybe a little bit about their personality A. How how flashy is how muted is it? How practical is it things like that? If you were lucky enough to be able to afford a fashion per se or to to have a variety of options and that goes all the way down to two in some cases, your underwear. But certainly your your shoes, right so like you said. It would be great. A solar company was able to really nail down. Storytelling and make that part of the reason to become. Popular ineffective and competitive but until then it seems like fashion has Bilton. Crutch they can use which is to turn around and tell. A slightly different story I guess, yeah, it's wild. How emotional are clothing is the kind of relationship that we have with the brands that we purchase from because it's so tied to our individual identity I mean you just think about how hard it is to get someone to stop on the street to talk about Greenpeace, for example, or donating Oslo that. But I'll have people on the street all the time in say Oh my God I love your shoes. I, have a pair the best thing ever I think in that's. As odd as it is, is like a really important super tower to have and to use wisely what's interesting because you guys had to you had to nail like good looking and comfortable shoes along with sustainable right it you can't just I mean we see this all the time. I. Stopped eating dairy like nine years ago and the first few years of of dairy free cheese was the darkness I mean this stuff it it off. It's off you know and now there's some really great alternative treeline a few others I mean they're fantastic. You know you've got ripple milk all these things but at the beginning on my God it was so bad but you guys. Clearly decided and stuck with and really worked hard on I mean I remember couldn't have. Ordered of original payroll runners earlier than I did and I how often I walked around and people you know having no idea what they were made of probably just assumed at a dinosaurs and they look at them and go what the hell are those where do I get those and I'd be like Oh my God they're so comfortable also you know it's made from like. This is false but. War from virgin cheap somewhere that have that have never been yelled at you know it's amazing. So it's fantastic that you guys have been able to tell both sides of that story and I think that's the name that our our founders realized really earlier on his that. We're not GONNA have impacted WANNA have if our product is not amazing if nobody buys her shoes, even if they're the most sustainable shoes on the planet, our impact is zero into they lead with product I and. Even. Interestingly, I think in the early days we talked about leading with product leading sustainability explicitly take the backseat because again we knew our impact was in people actually buying our shoe instead of another more traditionally made shoe, and so we wanted them to that and. That was key Dr Impact in theory that if we led too much with sustainability, it would get confusing and might turn them off. And I think that perspective has evolved over time as weeds I think senior real shift in both consumer awareness and sentiment towards sustainability, but also as we. Kind of accepted responsibility for this megaphone platform that we have. Even, right now, people don't really understand something like carbon footprint. And it's not necessarily grabbing people and pulling them in that. We still have that responsibility to help them understand and keep talking about it until they understand. For sure and you have to. You have to empathize with people who are interested in this stuff but aren't necessarily for whatever reason may because there's so much going on in the world aren't necessarily schooled in it. Again. Whether they've elected to or not, and by the way maybe they've tried to but I mean try looking up. A. Carbon credits for your flights and what you should do and go down that Internet rabbit hole. It's a nightmare and there's some wonderful companies like tariff pass and some other ones. But you know the every three months it's like it's like the question of like should I take a vitamin? Every three months they're like vitamin E. could make you live ten years longer and then the next day someone's like actually vitamin E. will kill you today. And you know it's it's confusing and it's hard and there's disinformation misinformation and also stuff we haven't figured out yet so. It's commendable to try to. Define, that for people as well as fighting on all these other fronts. Yeah it's a total of Dr. Science which I think is is something that the climate change discussion needs help with sometimes to your point it's hard to even google like annual emissions for the globe. And figure out who you can trust on something. So fundamental. Absolutely, it's it's wild west, they're. The Wild West Hunter you said the founders led with with product i. So, how you know now is sustainability built into into Aubert's actual business processes. So we really started understanding first of all, how important product is going to be an just just intuitively in order to have impact but then we wanted to put numbers behind that to back that up and so we started conducting what's called a life cycle assessment of our product, which is a way to measure all of the emissions created from the farm all the way through to win a customer disposes of the shoe at its end of life. And you tally up all of those carbon emissions and. One of our key first findings was just the. One. That that the vast vast majority of our emissions come from our product so like you know you hear companies talk about. Renewable Energy for their offices or retail stores. But in reality if that companies making a product ninety five plus percent of their footprint comes from their product and it's easy to dismiss that. were, the product is made somewhere else in. So we're not responsible for waters into it, but that is where your impact leads your. You're just look at the numbers and then secondly that within that product raw materials make up the majority of emissions because you're. Raising sheep sheep produce wool. In the case of the rest of the industry you're drilling oil out of the ground, and so that was how we that was really the core pillar of our sustainability program was made innovation and making sure that we were not just. Choosing the best materials off the shelf like wall but really going deep to make sure that the farms that we're sourcing from followed the best in class standards and certifications. So. Diligence on materials I would say is is the primary way that we've built in this sustainability muscle but then more recently I think as we said, okay, we're looking at her impacts and we're measuring them were tracking them, and of course, we're trying to reduce them but in the meantime. Shouldn't we be accountable to those emissions like the fact that all of us can pollute and not pay for any of it is why were in the? A. Little ridiculous names off and. Of course where good intentions in our our customers trust us and we're GONNA keep trying to drive our footprint zero over time but it's GonNa take time in the meantime the very least we can do is be accountable to our footprint. So last year we committed to being carbon neutral business shrum twenty nineteen forward, which I think is a little bit different than what you hear from big corporations and governments talk about like twenty fifty or twenty thirty if we're lucky. And we do that through an internal carbon tax. So for every pair of shoes we produce, we calculate the carbon footprint of those shoes and put an associated tax into a fund, and then at the end of the year, we use that fund to purchase carbon credits from projects around the world that help to reduce or drawdown carbon emissions, and so that is like a fundamental way that we. Try to incentivize internally better decisions that help to minimize footprint that not just are we gonNA compensate carbon tax doesn't just help us to compensate offset our impact, but it also is an incentive structure to help us drive towards zero emissions over time I. Love It I. Mean it's that's so read. We're big. were. Big. Fans of. To an extent obviously but the extent goes further and further these days is we're dealing with so many things at once you know the the ends justify the means in some ways and and we can't hold things and companies and people to a perfect standard but we do need to see both incremental and radical progress and so to have a goal of of radical progress and to be public and publicly accountable to that and internally accountable to it in the way that you're making commend progress along the way in finding ways to. For, lack of a better phrase make up for what you cannot do is is a great standard I mean you look at companies that have have have been inspiration on that front for a longtime obviously I think of places like Patagonia cooler like don't buy any more of our clothes. It's. Helpful and hopefully that can be. A model for other places going forward. Yeah. I think you said it earlier when you were talking out that we need to throw the kitchen sink at this in that. Companies and governments and individuals in all different types of organizations have have a role important role to play. I think we've got somehow stuck in this false hierarchy of like we need to reduce as much as possible I, and then whatever's left we will. Awesome or neutralized not some. That's what these net neutral by twenty fifty commitments man. I think coming out with a fresh pair of eyes we thought well, if we're all acknowledging that we're going to have to. Buy some sort of credit to net out our footprint in thirty years. Shouldn't we just do that day and actually use it up to the pool driver footprint down over time like? In my opinion on the reason why you wouldn't do that is because it costs money today. But if we acknowledged climate change is a problem because we're allowed to externalize our environmental impact. then. It seems like. Just seems like not a good enough answer sure yet, and we we can do but no one's no one's. Perfect would be perfect, but that's just not going to happen. So please. Do, better do better. You know aim higher do better Hana how did you? How did you guys get your shoes to be water resistant and not be? Just toxic. That's a that's a very good question. The number of times I've worn my original bowl like lovely light blue wool runners on. A mad would love to hear that. Yeah why are you saying that your Whoa your light blue rule renters have gotten destroyed or they actually held up pretty well. No, I mean they've they've held up well considering like they're just wool I mean one would think they should be displayed. Same. Time I've obviously thought like at some point they're going to try to figure out. Making these water resistant, and then my next thought was like, how do you do that? When you make everything trees and sheep like I don't understand I literally wouldn't understand how big in that. So I empathize with you but I'm so. Curious about it, and then we can get back to like how how to save the world. But this is important. This is important too. I think our thought process has been exactly the same we started with. Choosing Reno while in the first place which I think to the, we didn't talk a ton about that. You're in jail about how she's evolved over time from materials found in nature to being predominantly fossil fuel derived. We challenge ourselves to think back to simpler times before the advent of. Cheap plastics. And think about what property one amazing properties natural materials have on their own. So we'll. On. It on is anti odor. It's. Dries really quickly and and as hydrophobic. So meaning it hates water. So naturally is what he? Is a great cereal for something like shoes that is on your foot normally pretty stinky regulates temperature and keeps water out. So naturally. An advantage there. But then we also knew especially as we started to launch and grow the business in Europe and particularly the UK that gets a lot of fray and we were hearing from customers all the time that it just wasn't the natural property wasn't cutting it on those rainy days, and so we did want to pursue a water resistant version by sounds like as you're familiar, most of the water repellents treatments that exist are extremely toxic. So we Again, setting sustainability is the constraints of the experiment. If we do water repellents, you're not going to use for. The the main chemical of concern and waterproofing, and so we work to develop a fluorine three waterproofing treatment. and. That is what we used We do have a couple models that are now waters Yeah I'm looking at them right now what's it called the puddle Gar what you call the water resistance. And there called the willow. Grenier missile. Mizzle is apparently a term for a misdeed drizzle signify. That it is not a downpour but. Water. Sure. Sure. Sure Search I love that. This is great. Bryan frequently just buys things during during the podcast that people are talking about. So this is fantastic. Yeah but it makes it's relevant I'm not just like shopping for you know who knows what no that would yeah that'd be frustrating crazy Hana I'm curious because you seem to not only be. Judging by offered and their success and and and by your excitement talking about this quite. Quite into this, it's not just like. You know doing a job what what what is it about this particular job that suits you You know why? Why shoes why Aubert's sustainability since I studied environmental science in college and at that point identified. That climate change is really the issue that I wanted to spend my career working on because I wanted to choose the most very strategically choose the issue that was going to be I. Thought most central to our existence going forward. Both from an impact perspective in a job security perspective and I was really convinced of the power of business to bring about that change and in a lot of cases model what's possible AFFIRMA- government or policy perspective a great example being our carbon tax at Auburn kind of signifying that hey, this is possible and we will pay for it. I was really lucky to be able to marry those two things together in this role and that all birds is thinking. So boldly and hiring sustainability. So early on. In its lifetime but. I wouldn't be happy at just any company I think. I'm super inspired by the leadership of our co founders who time and time again, show this conviction and doing the right thing that. Is motivating but then. I also love being a small company where my job is. As diverse as attending global climate summit in talking about climate policy to as menial sorting our trash in the alleyway and get into visit farmers in New Zealand and factories in Asia. and. Maybe, most importantly, ages developed this repository of fun facts in knowledge from how sugarcane is grown in Brazil to how to calm sheep. Doubt Foam GonNA stop. One moment. please. Indulge us for for sharing in other purposes. If you put a sheep on, it's like you left him up and put him on his but. He gets really calm. Stop there too. How does one pick up a sheep and put it on its butt? And is this like a like a new hire training thing that you have to do it all birds is. Irish but I mean it's just like a like your household pet or your dog. You know Hogan Tae. Left Iraq in lean back you're halfway there. Love it. That's essential. See Brian I don't make you do anything. It's I want to get a sheep. We're definitely going to do the sheep thing. But Yeah I think I I again thought that working in that in order to have maximum impact did need to work in the energy sector or the transportation sector but I think like key learning of this job is that actually our industries connected to all of those things and so We got to keep a finger on the pulse of new developments in every industry, which is really interesting for sure and I love that you're evaluating the whole chain I mean. You know again to found a company and say we're GONNA. Take on the whole supply chain from the very beginning is like it's a tall order. On top of making fantastic shoes that are sustainable you wanna be incremental but but proactive and and radical where you can be an leader in in an industry can be, but it's hard I mean I literally just saw today that Apple said they're gonNA go fully carbon-neutral neutral by twenty thirty which. I believe they've had. Mostly solar-powered offices and data centers up till now. But now it's the hard part which is looking at the rest of their supply chain which to be clear is insane and so I admire them for being like, no, we're GONNA. We're doing this thing, but I'm also just like good luck. Oh, my God you know I can't imagine. Yeah I think you you touched on. Sort of our unique challenge, which has been that we as a as a new company rooted in sustainability. We've had all of the goodwill and intention of doing things the right way from beginning our also starting from scratch and. Sustainability has come to mean. Fifteen different things to fifteen different people from animal welfare to human rights to climate change to chemistry, and the expectation is that you are doing all of those things perfectly and we know just from instinctively that if recharged if we tried to do ten things, we could either do ten things. Really shallowly and maybe not. So ellery could really move the needle on issue and for sure we've tried to be really intentional about prioritizing those issues based on both our founders conviction in starting the business as well as where we are in our trajectory and where we think we can have the biggest impact. So on that note because you've been around for. A few years now and Other, it seems like other. Companies in Schumer, and elsewhere are starting to take these on if we can. Dip Our toes into capitalism in the marketplace for for a moment I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about. Basically. Reduced Carbon footprint and sustainability. As a competitive advantage in in two thousand twenty and going forward to do you feel like that's something that exists yet or you guys aiming more towards rising tide lifts all boats. And I guess also like who else is is succeeding here on a similar level to you guys. Absolutely I think it's become competitive advantage. Even over the last couple of years like within my time at all birds I think I've seen a pretty significant shift. Where you know as a company, will you're monitoring any sort of news about other browns in sustainability and? Three years ago there might be one week in now there's ten day I think the conversation and the bar has been elevated. In the US a little bit. But particularly in other markets, like especially in Europe for US sustainability is probably the leading. Leasing why a customer would support us or why journalists would wanNA talk to us. In to back that up, I think one big surprises us this year was our first feature in vogue was about our carbon footprint labelling initiative. Climate Change. Carbon has become mainstream even in fashion and going back to the leadership of the company. I think. That took foresight to really want to lean into these topics when people didn't really understand them. But also to continue to challenge ourselves that as this becomes more of a competitive advantage, we can't fall prey to the temptation to keep it close to the vest. So as we. I don't think we've talked this yet but we started publishing the carbon footprints evolve our products just a few months ago. Both isn't accountability measure internally to help. Commit to drive those prince two zero over time. But more importantly to spark in industry conversation and challenge the notion of why don't we know the environmental impact of the products that we buy and consume. And how can we expect customers to make better decisions for the climate if they have zero information to go off of Sirte interrupt like I've been excited to talk about this ever since I was definitely like I was like, Oh, I should reschedule this conversation. Oh, I should also buy some more shoes and I noticed that on the website recently. And it's awesome and it made me think about. And forgive me if this is something you guys have. Talked about too much but about the. The. I guess the only real legit comparison is like standardized nutrition labels right but to me. And again, just tell me to blow off. This seems wrong. But the the key to making nutrition labels work besides the UBIQUITY and how long they've been around as much as they've changed or not changed is is not just, Hey, this is how many grams of sugar I guess. Now, you can even see added sugar on their it's. That it's this is fifty percent of your daily allowance and and so I thought about we had this fantastic conversation. Back in twenty nineteen, which feels like I don't know a century goes this point though we talk with this wonderful woman professor, Julius Steinberg and and the title is what are the energy requirements of wellbeing which seems kind of Fu. But it's basically about like if we're going to get this under control, right is it possible? To. Quantify an objective moment that allows for a quote unquote like good life, and then of course we went down. Rabbit. Holds of what that means historically and how white people and basically in America just blow that out of the water and what it means for different cultures. It's great but I guess my point when I talk about the the fifty percent of your daily allowances. People. Need not only like the raw numbers but a reference point. What's allowing? I'm curious if if if that's part of the thinking is you guys have started to define this, which is so great to put it out there and just look here's a measuring stick for for the Industry and competitors and people. It's like how how do we just not dumb it down but the make relative to someone's life. Make sense yet and you touched on the challenge which is When you say we report our carbon footprint in terms of kilograms of Co. two equivalents. And the the challenge to that is nobody knows what that means. Right there. That's great and then you start trying to explain it's like as if you filled a balloon with this much gas, put it on his skill. That that's not really the point like we also don't know what a grown ellery is. Set Scientific Unit of measure but because it's so ubiquitous, we've developed relational understanding to know that if I eat. A Burger today for lunch. Maybe I should have a salad for dinner and as you said that sort of percent daily value and I think we absolutely need to develop that for carbon and the environmental impact of our decisions and it's totally possible bank one. We know how much the average person emits in a year in the US. It's around five tons of carbon per person per year, which we knows too much. So certainly, we can create a cements about what that should be sent to maintain our. Desired climate commitments, but I think Equally as important, we need to develop a librarian, an understanding of the carbon packs of different. Products we buy, but also decisions they make, and that's been one of the central challenges in launching this program is at once in order to help customers understand why. Seven, point six kilograms of co two equivalents means we need to put it in context with other shoes, other apparel items, other things in our lives. But also, the reason why we're doing this is because those numbers don't exist at least in any sort of standardized or. Give way right and there's places like you know I'm not sure if you're familiar with project draw down there they're fantastic and they're so well meaning and so smart and so hard working on all this stuff and and they've been like, no. If we do these things in this order, like this is going to make the biggest difference and we've started to measure generally things like flying in. So for a year, everyone was like that's it. No one's allowed to fly. Anymore and it's like, okay. But also if we take a step back, it's important to know that's mostly just like rich white people who fly and yes, it's detrimental but most people don't. So that news is going to be null and void to them, and that's again where it comes back to this like you get two thousand calories a day and how you choose to fill them and the quality of how you choose to fill them is is up to you. Here's here's the things and we're gonNA outlaw some shit like trans fats and some things like Broccoli. WE'RE NOT GONNA make affordable enough but the point is is like Having sort of this objective thing even if we can get close to it, you know, maybe you guys don't don't totally agree with with fashion and especially the subset of for since footwear. Withdraw Down you know if we can work together to get close to that. So people understand. About the choices they're making, but also the relative choices they're making feels like the key like if I do this, I can't do this or I have to do less of this because it means ex. Yeah. Absolutely the the ultimate goal and back to your conversation your your question about. Competitive Advantage I think that was a key moment, our decision point that we hadn't launching this initiative was. Okay, we're releasing figures in avoid. What happens if a competitor says, they have lower carbon footprint than ours like is that possible? Are We okay with Thatcher and? I think to our co-founders credit they were like. Hey if we get people talking about the carbon footprints of their products, let alone publishing a number that's lower than ours. That is a win like we have been in the wrong race in the new kind of race to try to carbon neutrality, and if we're driving that process through competition, that's exactly what we're trying to do. For Sure One one fewer forest fire, right? Right, hey, how why can't somebody like Nike for example, use the same materials that you guys do just scale or? Is it because they don't care. Or is it because they don't care bigger company with theoretically be better position to use sustainable materials because they can buy in bulk and I think that's ultimately what we're all after is, as you said earlier in the context of like non dairy cheeses, the initial versions are expensive in not that great, and if we put her show demand for them. The product will get better in the cost will come down over time. That's why synthetic materials like polyester nylon are. So cheap now is because that's where we`ve All of our time and energy over the last number decades in terms of innovation in our industry and we need to shift. That demand. So I, think in most cases, the is why companies aren't using. Completely sustainable materials is cost in almost instant. They do currently costs more in most cases, and that's an impact that we are able to absorb because of our business model of of not relying on wholesale, and so we're able to put more of that margin behind materials that we source. It makes sense I mean yeah it makes sense. It's like if they can if they can absorb in some places, higher prices for a little while and start to order in bulk hopefully, we bring these things down refund more sustainable ways to. Grow the things, raise the things not dispose of the things. Somehow find our way into a circular economy of some sort. Again, coming back to the whole Patagonia like just bring us back your clothes and we'll fix them please stop buying stuff. You know it's a it's appealing but you know, of course, it's GonNa. Take hard work. So again I think like how you said. Your job not only is is is the product side, but the social side, and also like how to divvy up the trash out back I think a lot and this is usually more. Tech focused because these companies are buying large. I don't want to say like nightmares, but they can be. But how how every? At least these mostly. That we can touch American tech companies should be required to have like a like a like a chief liberal arts graduate on their seaboard, right? So they can stop destroying democracy and things like that you seem to have. Built your role at all birds from scratch with a environmental science background but also. You know a good perspective on business and capitalism but also on on things you want to do with the philosophy. So I'm curious about basically like one. How do we clone you? But in a more and more detailed version like wear? How do we? Institutionalize your role at other startups and equally important existing corporations like what's what's transferable from from your job and offered and what's not and you can start with fashion or whatever seems to make sense. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of our listeners. I want that fucking job I know and I talked to them every day and I do think that. The. These kinds of roles already coming more and more common, but they're not as ubiquitous as they need to be particularly at companies. So early stage, which is when I think it really. Matters. Like at a certain point if you add sustainability as layer ten years down the line out of some. Risk desire to mitigate. Risk. It's the Bishop has sailed I. Think you're too far gone at that point to really. Make, a meaningful difference I think that's the IRA I haven't environmental science. Background from studying but then I worked in in management consulting and business strategy and. So coming to the world of sustainability from an outsider's perspective. I think I've really taken away that. So much of this work is. Translates across business certainly within our industry when we talk about Labor supply chains and materials, but outside as well like the principles of measuring and reducing carbon are the same whether we're talking about it clothing company or a Tech Company, and so I think the real challenge is figuring out how to democratize that information and and systematize it better I think in the same way that we have when you're starting A. Business you have shop five to set up your store and you have striped, handle your payments in. You have benefits to do your HR benefits like there should be a sustainability version as well. Because not everyone has has the budget or the know how to implement ZANU Ability Program from scratch as we've talked about, it's quite technical in many different it's complicated. There's different areas of expertise, but the principles are the same. And so. It just shouldn't the all the hard work and money and time that we've spent to build up the pillars of our sustainability program. Not, every new company should have to go through that. A lot of that could be could be shared, and so we're constantly thinking about how we can share that information certainly informally I think. I never would have expected that one of the strongest networks build his job are with sustainability people at other companies, but informally by also. Trying to think for me about what that look like. For sure I mean it's it's. It's apples to oranges little bit but you know you think about what striped did for online businesses and you know before everyone was building their payment structure from scratch. Or using some version of early paper or something like that, and and you know stripe then shop if I. You know enabled a whole new world and it's like two clicks had this line of code your website. Now, he got as a shopping cart it's crazy and obviously the methodology and philosophy. Implementing the methodology and philosophy of of sustainability across a variety of industries and products. And things like that. is going to be a little more complicated. Black and white but that doesn't mean like you said. Startups should have to. It it doesn't mean there shouldn't be like a platform for at least the basics right? Because there are there are so many shared things across everywhere no matter what your business you're getting into. Yeah. Exactly. I think good prime example as. To power this carbon footprint labelling initiative that we have we had billed as an. Internal tool to calculate the carbon footprints of our products in we've spent thousands of dollars with consultants and thousands of hours on unbuilding. nece saying that we think is pretty applicable to most products in our industry and no, it's not gonna get to the level of specifity specificity of your specific cotton vendor in. India but it'll get pretty close and I think we have to stop using that as an excuse to not do anything and so. That's a great example of something where like we? We spend so much time building this it should be transferable. What's the best way to make that happen in to enable other people to use this tool? So that we can achieve the goal of having more carbon footprint. Sat there in helping people develop this understanding. Yeah. It's just I mean, the the bottom line and you know, of course, thanks to you guys for doing all that hard work and spending the time in the money and to getting to something that that that a lot of people should be able to use as like a starter pack essentially because it's not good enough for the answer to be anymore like. Where's your? Where's your t-shirt come from and like good enough is in Well I. Don't think it's made out of oil by children. does that count? Are. So far past like everything's on fire where there's got to be a more measurable way. Of doing it. I don't want to go ahead please please just finish that that we really believe in progress over perfection and not letting perfect. Be The enemy of good. We think a ninety percent right answer is better than zero answer at all and I think. Our Newcomer Status as a company has enabled us to lean into that a little bit more potentially take a bit more risk than. A large corporation might when reporting numbers like this but were, as you said, it's we're too far gone to. Worry about the decimal points we have to directionally do what we know is the right answer end and keep charging forward. Yeah and again it's easy to be like, oh, you know shoes or or like you said greater fashion is. Single. Digits maybe ten percent or something close to that, and it's easy to sneeze at it but also like holy shit ten percent would be really great. Really. Great. If chievements knockoff because we need to do anything, we need to do everything. You know I'll take nine percent in a heartbeat, oh? Yeah. I feel we talk about it comes up a lot here that idea perfect is the enemy of good on this on this podcast and we talked to. Just fucking do it. You know do what we can. All right. Let's get to some action. Our goal here is to provide action steps, specific action steps that our listeners can can take. Support you Honda and your mission with with their voice and their vote in their dollar. So let's get into it start with their with their voice. What what big actionable. Specific questions can we all be asking our local representatives? To. Help to help support you. Yeah. Think on on the most. Micro sort of personal level. especially in terms of the things you buy again going back to my point that. The majority of of a products impacts come from the materials that it's made us ask that question If it's not in apparel, you have to disclose the material make-up's take time to look at the taxes the things you're buying, but in other industries, it's not as clean cut but that's that's a first step based on the available information that we all have in terms of the unavailable information I think you're exactly right that the voice of the customer is so powerful in a way that I didn't realize the customer until I was on the other side of it. But when customers asked questions, we respond to everyone in we respond immediately and With the full force of the business and so asking the question asking. Where was this made? What's the carbon footprint? They can't tell you why can't you tell me All of those questions actually sparked a lot of dialogue and conversation in ultimately action within companies they're really important to ask I love. That is there is there are there things that we could be asking of of Representatives and such about do? Better labelling practices, things like that about you know having someone all birds testify about. Developing the carbon footprint measure calculator scale thing. You know are there things like that? That can be pretty specific that people could be asking? Representatives do you mean company of the? Government. I mean of I mean if government basically like a again at some point, it's going to require a lot of these things are going to acquire. Education of legislators and their aides maybe in the opposite order because that's usually the way it goes, but then also some form of of lawmaking regulation so that so that we can start to phase out the bad stuff but also learn where there are good models from those things because otherwise they have no idea what they're talking about absolutely I think. A couple areas that come to mind specifically. One is materials and how we Natural materials in terms of how they're priced in how they're supported versus synthetics, and then the other is the idea of. If, not a carbon tax, some sort of mechanism for paying for emissions and. I think I get nuts. The Lens that we've tried to take at all birds is, how do we create? How do we voluntarily take on penalize ourselves or take on potential policy measures in order to demonstrate the kind of future that we WANNA see an show lawmakers that were already and that we believe this is the right way to go label at carbon labelling is another example I know that's been particularly in Europe. A topic of conversation is whether to start requiring transparency on environmental impacts of products and We absolutely agree in that vision and direction. So we're GONNA, start doing it ourselves. But yeah, the more that we can tell those stories and show that we can have a successful business and do these things at the same time I. Think is a really important example to provide. Awesome. That's exactly what we're looking for and then. What about with their dollar and you've already talked about the customers. The customers voice being important I guess besides. More. All Birds Dot. com. Whatever the whatever the website is, are there other fellow makers that you would love to give a shout out to where where people could? Conduct some conscious capitalism I guess. Yeah I. I mean my media reaction is be course. We didn't spend a lot of time talking about what that is but for sure. It means Albright which means two things to as one. It means that we are incorporated as a public benefit corporation rather than a traditional see Corp, which means we have to be accountable to. Other. Stakeholders in the business besides shareholders like the environment like our supply chain but it's also a third party certification where every three years we undergo really really rigorous assessment. To basically ensure that we are living up to their promises that we are marketing publicly and. There is a community I think at this point of of three thousand B quirks worldwide. Not just within the consumer product space also in services real estate legal, pretty much anything you can think of. I would encourage them to to look at that listing of companies and always tried to support them when you have a choice terms of buying your home cleaning product Dora the next backpack or suitcase it's a great place to start to know that. The companies you're supporting are. Doing what they say they are. Awesome. That's super helpful. Yeah. That's really great to know. That's super helpful. I would also give a shout. There's a bunch of great companies that participate in nonprofits on the other side in the one percent for the planet program. I don't know if you guys do that one or not but they've usually get a pretty good lead on. Again companies are trying to do the right thing at least exactly. That's a good one. Of the lightning round just about. If you have. Around, but it is quote we just don't have another name for it. If you whether now or later have any other recommendations for. World changing humans we should talk to Please let us know. Anyone. Else that inspires you and that's out there fighting for a better future for everyone would be super dope All right last. Last couple questions here, and then we'll get you out of here. Hana. When was the first time in your life when you realized you the power of change for the power to do something meaningful. Wasn't today I think. I go way back you nerve and having a lot of conversations in the context of racial and social justice about my own power privilege and one thing I've been reflecting on is the privilege of travel growing up My mom worked in philanthropy and international development, and so I got to seal out of the world and. I think it was probably in middle school time of going to some of these third world countries in just recognizing have privileged I was and then the power that I had in. Bringing those stories home and raising awareness about other parts of the world. So that was certainly one and then within the context of of all day, one specific memory comes to mind. It was in my first couple of weeks there in I'd never worked at such a small company before I think there are like fifty of us in and we all sat in the same room and I noticed that we have these individual trash cans at each desk and. Because of that people were mixing bear recycling and composting trash. Rather than sorting them and zone night a coworker I just took all the trash cans away. said you monster I'm sorry I have to walk to the kitchen into sort your trash properly but I think that was the first time within the corporate context that I realized I have the power to make things happen. small-scale. You're like Batman Stealing It's fantastic. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing a Honda who is someone in your life that has positively impacted your work in the past six months. I think I touched on it earlier, there's a few phases fans that are coming to mind. But the common thread is that a are all my peers at other companies, sustainability leaders. Mostly at apparel companies but. I am in contact with them on. Almost a daily basis comparing notes texting asking, how do you think about this? Just yesterday someone shared like an example job description with me that I claimed to leverage in. It's just been the most unexpected community of. Mentors at other companies and I've learned so much him. So grateful for the support, especially as a as a new relative newcomer to corporate sustainability. That's awesome. Man That's got to be the coolest. Messages group thread. Right. There trying to change the world. Friend. We. Need more, friends All Right Brian bringing home on what do you do when you when you feel overwhelmed when you need to escape an hasn't Hana. Time Self Care. Very important and paying a lot of attention to this one is I live. A couple blocks from the beach. So seeing sunset. At the beach has been huge priority of mine. Always really helpful. Secondly, maybe more actionable for for many of you out there. There's something called Dance Church. What? You Google Dance Church already did. Every Wednesday at five and Sunday ten for those of us on the West Coast. There's a livestream class that is an knicks between like jazzercise and ecstatic dance and aerobics. Guess it's kind of all the above but it's a great opportunity to and it's not you know the problem with some of these extreme classes is that they can see you too and this is on the case so you can do your nobody's junior. Blasts music. Non. Will now. Come. That's amazing as a longtime jazzercise and reaching back further monster size fan. I. This is very exciting when everything locked down I. got my my three children. The nintendo switch things so they could do. What is whatever the the dance game is? Yeah. This is very exciting. Very I'M GONNA. Make Brian do except I am going to set up a camera in this house so I can watch him no I. Can choose to turn it off. She just said we'll talk about its corporate thing. Last question. Hana could send one book to. Donald Trump. What book do you think he needs to read and we've got a really great list. Recommendations from all of our guests on bookshop. And and we think you should throw it on. And this is assuming hillary. Yes. Yes. Nobody will read it to go too far down the rabbit. It could be a picture book. It could be the constitution and you can assume he would listen or it has pictures whatever you would like to be an audiobook. Sure. While a one one thing we didn't talk much about, but is the climate solution from the Dragon lists that I'm most excited about is regenerative agriculture and how can. Change the way that we firearm in order to create healthier soils and use natural carbon sinks to sequester emissions, and I think that one of my favorite books on that is called dirt to soil by Gabe Brown and it's it's a story about his family's journey to regenerative agriculture and I. Thank by that came to mind is because wanted solution oriented? which is important and to there's Certainly, a positive economic story to regenerative agriculture, and so again, proving that these. Practices better for the planet can also lead to economic growth. Is probably an important argument for for him. Awesome. I love that That's a great recommendation. We've done some agriculture stuff on here and. again, one of those things is going to take some some probably some large federal oversight and reconditioning of of the laws and grants and things like that, and the farm bill, but men it could. It could. Really. There could be huge progress arena amazing conversation with Lia Penman of soul fire farm about that and Yeah it's pretty pretty tremendous. Awesome. Hana. Is there a place where listeners can follow you online? I can file it offered at. Virgin comment. Awesome rock and roll we'll listen. Thank you so much for your time today, and for all that you guys are doing they're wonderful company wonderful products. I'm excited that it is you have been inspired. Inspired by folks at other places doing the same thing. I'm excited that there are folks at other places doing the same thing and that hopefully we'll see more versions of this. Down the line. It'll be great one to get off the list and and we're comfortable shoes at same time in underwear. Now, very exciting I. Think if the if the future of sustainable shoes, anything like the path that vegan cheese has made than we then everything's GonNa be great leaps and bounds leaps bleeps inbound. For share just choosing underwear. Awesome various. Well, thank you so much. So, much awesome. Rest of your day and thanks again for taking the time. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or workout or dishwashing or fucking dog walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp. So Weird. Also on facebook and Instagram at important, not important pinterest and Tumbler the same thing. So check US out follow US share us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this and if you're really fucking awesome rate us on Apple podcasts, keep lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website. Important. NOT IMPORTANT DOT com. Thanks to the awesome Tim blamed for our jam and music to you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guy.

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#101: Code Blue: Arizona Goes to The Emergency Room

Important, Not Important

1:10:22 hr | Last week

#101: Code Blue: Arizona Goes to The Emergency Room

"Welcome to important not important. My name is Quinn Emmett. And I'm Brian Calvert Kennedy and this I think, yeah this is the podcast where we give you the tools you need to fight for better future for everyone we get those tools and the context in the smartest people on Earth and all these action steps you can take to support those people in their missions. and which people are we talking about? Well, we've had scientists on a long list had we've had doctors and nurses, journalists, engineers, farmers, politicians, activists. So many words, educators, business leaders, astronauts. We had a reverend at the beginning. Yeah. I had a big drink of water while you read that it's a long list at we're laundry list hundred and one episode plus special ones that are in there. I, mean. Wow. We've also got. A newsletter, you can join thousands of other smart people and you can subscribe to it at a free weekly newsletter sums up all the news you missed this week and the action steps you can take to. Fight the good fight. Brian tell me with an important not important dot com. Yeah. That's helpful. Information. Where can they? Send us, feedback and cookies. Should they prefer cookies please but also questions are fine. You can do that. At. Fun Talk and important not important dot com or on twitter at important not imp-. we got a great Little Review Day somebody sent it to me recently that said paraphrase I have written down in his email, but is it this is like it's like how I built this meets Tim. FERRISS. Except it's through science and saving the world and I was like God. That's a that's a pretty good review I'll take that. That's great who des say that. So. Much good. We have no money less. I mean we never had any man Brian. What a great episode, this week, this episode. Is featuring another For some reason, another incredible human who has decided to give up their regular life to try and fix this. Thing that's happening outside I. Guess it's so called democracy. Tell it tell them about her harrowing? Well. Her name is Dr here. All Tipping. Any She's an emergency room physician. Check a mom check immigrant track. Cancer Research Advocate Jack. And Yeah. She's taking all of that and trying to bring. It and her expertise and her empathy to Congress I would say the only. The only feasible way her incumbent measures up to her in any way is if you take all of her qualifications and you you take away like what they are, and you take his qualifications for being corrupt and you just like if it's just basic math, he is as corrupt as she is just infinitely qualified to. you know like we'll talk about expertise and empathy and decision making skills. Equal Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah. If you if you just do it that way anyways, what's the Great Baseball Statistic Wins Above replacement value something like that war they call it basically like Brian. If you were right fielder, your war would be how much better you than the average rightfielder in that your war calculation and this would just be the scale. So anyways, the chart, let's go talk to hear all. That's do it. All right. Our guest today is hero tipper nanny and together asking how the Hell did all of America end up in the emergency room. Doctor deeper. Any welcome thank you so much for having me Clinton and Brian. I appreciate the chance to speak with you both. Know things. Very. Very excited. let us Let's begin a doctor by just telling everybody look look quick intro who you are and what you do I am Dr Harold supernanny and I've the Democratic nominee for Congress in Arizona's six but in my life prior to running, for Public Service I was a your physician and emergency medicine physician clinically for many years and Ben also spent almost nine years working in cancer research out because see. So my background is medicine and science and I come from you know experience of serving others and solving complex problems to make. Positive impact people's lives which is. Really what I think we need more of in Congress and in DC. So you're I was going to say what of all of those qualifications makes you feel like you you can help it's crazy. It seems so silly. Any of those things would just automatically be a major upgrade to the current situation reminder for everyone out there and and So you know also Dr our goal on the show is to provide some We're GONNA provide some quick context for our topic, and then we're GONNA get into some very action oriented questions and and and anything else and everything else that everyone out there can do to help support you and and your mission that sound great options. Wonderful. Thank you. Awesome. So here we like to start with one important question to set the tone for this fiasco. Instead of saying, tell us your entire life story, we like to ask why are you vital to the survival of the species? Well. I I don't think there's ever been a moment. In our political history at least since I've been alive that it is more clear that we need more physicians and scientists in DC I. Mean we find ourselves figuratively and literally in this state of crisis right and it is an emergency and who better than to jump in and and start solving these complex problems. Then an experienced emergency physician that has been a in those situations having to make rapid you know back the data driven decisions quickly decisively intervening, making a difference stabilizing situations and you know solving the larger complex problem at hand. That we need more of that we that's what we need right now on. So many fronts whether it's addressing this public health crisis of this pandemic the resulting economic recession that we're in addressing our climate crisis which continues to show it's a rear, its ugly head constantly with these wildfires and extremes of temperature, and you know obviously other things continued to rage on his well. It's not like the opioid crisis has gone away. It's not like gun violence has stopped. It's not like You know economic inequities or educational equities have gone away they're their. Emergencies all around us. So absolutely I say bring in the professionals bringing that your docs bring in scientists bring in the folks who appreciate a data driven approach and can be decisive leaders and let's get to work. Again it all seems it. All seems like every every guest we have. So every incredibly intelligent guests we have talking it's like, how is not the norm already? How is this not already? Yeah, it's like. You're just being charge of everything everything. I mean, why not dictator day all right. So just some quick context for for our story here are wonderful guests to represent Arizona's sixth congressional district. Is that correct That is correct yet, it's Arizona's national district yes. And that's a part of the around Phoenix including Scottsdale some other suburbs believe it's about seven hundred and fifty thousand constituents. Does that sound right? Yet just shy of Eight, hundred thousand and it is North Phoenix. Then as you said, the Northeast Valley suburbs Paradise Valley Scottsdale Cave Creek, carefree and Fountain Hills Awesome and I. Used to have all these memorized and now my children Badger me about them I believe that's more people than three states four states something like that. I think it's like Alaska Vermont Wyoming something there's a few under a million. So yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I think I. Yeah Definitely Montana and I think Wyoming. I think you're right I don't know the other. And DC, of course, which should be a state different conversation right? It seems like your district has been redrawn a couple times, which is what happens with the census often clearly over the past twenty years, and hopefully we can make that a little more a little more fair again everywhere after twenty twenty, the last three representatives have been republicans the last five presidential elections. have. Leaned read but decreasingly. So here are our listeners know that we we are. We're pretty picky about which elected officials we talked to and hopeful elected officials but I think again, our listeners know that Arizona. Is Not only well, potentially going blue in a couple of weeks not just for you but hopefully overall but. Is Hot and getting hotter and. for example, in two eighteen I think it was something like one, hundred, twenty or one, hundred, thirty days over triple digits, cities like Phoenix and again like Los, Angeles or places in the middle. East they're. They're making moves to provide cooling options for folks that don't have any especially night when our bodies need to cool down on the new self is becoming harder becoming more dangerous but Arizona is actually really you know I think going to be interestingly the the tip of the sword per se when we talk about climate mitigation and adaptation, and so it's really important to have local leaders and national leaders. Who are going to help, listen, and learn, and also not be afraid to try and enact policies. To both fight this climate crisis. But again, understand that it's important to at the same time to try to keep areas like phoenix in the surrounding areas as livable as possible, and obviously also worlds still locked in our living rooms. There's a lot going on. But as you said, it seems like it's the perfect moment and you seem like the perfect person. To have as a as someone who has spent so much of their career. Trying to provide solutions in a data driven. And at the same time empathetic way. So again, our question day is how the hell did basically all of America end up in the emergency room hero. This isn't actually your first shot at a congressional seat do. and. So just again for everyone else's reference and this was stunning to me. I knew the surface level this but not all of it, which is that your opponent the incumbent. Admitted to eleven ethics violations related to improper spending and other financial breaking. Just a garden garden variety agreed to a fifty thousand dollar fine is still in office. And quoting the House Ethics Committee violated House rules. The Code of Ethics for Government Service Federal, laws and other applicable standards, and they said his testimony lacked credibility. So I'm curious what it is about are perfectly functioning democracy rule that keeps you working. So diligently to try to become unofficially elected part of it. Wow. That's a lot so I'm GONNA give you sort of the basic core example of what motivates me to run. Okay. So I saw a woman in the emergency department many years back. and. This is one patient of many that has a similar story but she had felt a lump in her breast right four months prior to when she came to the emergency department. But she was an hourly wage worker she had no healthcare benefits right she did not have health insurance she could not access the health care system she could not afford to take time off work where she didn't have paid sick leave or anything. Like that and so she just kind of ignored this lump that she felt in her breasts for four months until she and she was an early forties. Okay. finally, she presents to the era when I see her the reason she comes into the Er is because she has this like oozing wound on her breast bone right on her sternum and it's she can see it on her skin and so she comes in for that. And as I start examining her and I, start asking questions. I. Find Out about this lump that she felt prior and once we start doing some tests honor we realize. Her body is riddled now with cancer riddled and that that wound on her chest wall is metastatic lesion that has now eroded through her sternum forty two years old and six less than six weeks later, she was dead. I mean, this is America this is our country. The infinite resources we have we are you know supposedly the you know that Shining City on the hill right? We are the the envy of the whole planet, but we can't keep people like her. Because she doesn't have an insurance card because of our broken health care system and until that healthcare system is repaired and actually functional I'm going to be in this fight I'm going to be in this fight because I have that perspective I've seen it. I've seen the eyes of people who've struggled I mean when you have a parent come in and their tearful and they have a child is sick and they're crying for two reasons are crying because number one they're worried about their kid and they think, oh my gosh, I waited too long to bring them inch. They're also crying because they have no idea how they're going to afford any cares of this shrugs Goin- indeed? And they they are anticipated already being homeless and broken, not being able to put food on the table I mean. But yeah, this is a travesty I mean this is happening in our nation every single day and the ACA, the affordable care act. Helped us take one giant leap forward right we didn't get to the finish line, but we took one giant leap forward in the right direction twenty three million Americans are now within our healthcare system with insurance with access healthcare because of the ACA and we are right now in this emergency crisis where that. Safety Net is trying is being ripped away. We have I mean you guys know this I'm sure that there is a case going in front of Scotus right in front of Supreme Court that is led by this administration at several attorneys general from several GOP states that are looking to fully repeal the ACA, which will leave twenty, three, million people uninsured. But on top of that, let's be very clear. One out of every two Americans has a pre existing condition and those folks would either be uninsurable or have astronomical rates if they couldn't afford I, mean. And this is in the middle of a pandemic mid. It's unconscionable. It's almost. Like imagine, any human being would ever push for this Sir and I believe we've got an I imagine because of the number of people who are the demographics of the people who've been affected especially people who? Really suffered and further faced A. Higher Mortality Averages but. I think there's what do we have? What is today? The October sixth were at like seven and a half million. Diagnoses for for covid food seven and a half million pre existing conditions. Seven and a half million probably not seven million new Americans with pre existing conditions. But for a lot of them later to injure a number of them, it's it's maybe their first one and. Guess what you know. There's a lot more coming at. If you strike down the ACA I it's it's going to be. It's I. IT feels incredible. Feels like so many people have forgotten what it was like until that day in whatever was two, thousand ten when when you when preexisting conditions are covered right well and realize that we still didn't like it to the finish line right we still have millions of air against like just prior to this pandemic we still had millions of Americans. families all across this nation that still either were under uninsured right and but we've seen the benefit of the. We've seen the benefit not just to you know outcomes and people being able to stay healthier and seek primary care and and focus on preventative care and things like that. But we've also seen the economic benefit. So it's really important that we realize there's a human toll there's an economic toll and the sooner we you know. Imprint Bat inextricably link in our minds and understand that. This I mean this pandemic, for example, right? It is laid bare all the fragility of our healthcare and economic systems and it's shown how one is directly connected to the other I mean as soon as a pandemic kit. Molly when people got sick and they lost their jobs because they could go to work or because they. Were in the hospital or they just were too ill to to work but all the people that lost their jobs because businesses closed down at production of things stopped and so forth. Of those folks we have seen how the healthcare and the economic systems are so tightly linked and we don't take some decisive action to strengthen our healthcare system and address these economic inequities we are. We're not gonNA, find our way out of this even once the viruses eradicated, we're we're going to be back to square one so we can't go back. We have to learn from this and do so much better. And I think it's important to know and thank you for for the context I. It's it's so true I mean. Again you go to make America great again thing it's like no, it was fundamentally broken before moving showed up and exposed everything. But I wanNA talk a little bit about because we've tried to look we are to middle middle-class straight white guys there couldn't be more privilege on planet earth. And so we tried to recognize that but also have have folks on like yourself who who, who, look and have different experiences than than. We do certainly I mean besides the fact that you've like thirty years of medical training besides those details I'm close I'm getting close adequate experience. Brian it's not just conversation. Okay But one of the things we we we've. Always tried to point out and certainly over the past year, tried to do much better job of his to to to to helping people understand into sale that you know the the inequities in. Billy any of America's systems they are not broken. They were they were designed this way the they're designed in very racist unequal way and I want to talk about how with you a little bit about how that leads to the healthcare system. That is also not necessarily broken. It is designed to be reactive and procedure and profit base. So like you said, obamacare's this huge step forward, but it you know and it was imperfect from the start of reasons. But was far better than the previous situation. Now you know trump has spent four years trying to destroy it and might that might happen in a couple of weeks, right But but at the same time. There's still millions of people with no healthcare or that they don't know what's included in in Medicaid or they're just lied to, and so they don't go to annual checkups. They have tons of underlying conditions because of all the toxic air they're exposed to. So adults get chest pains or they're a young, you know Latino Kit or black you'd with asthma, and so they go to the emergency room right now you don't have a cardiopulmonary person that they see frequently to check on their asthma. Or they don't like you said the young woman with cancer. They don't go those first few times because they fear those bills where they blow it off like people do, and then they go to the emergency room and is wonderful. As Emergency Room doctors and nurses and staff are a massive expense, not only on the system obviously but the person, and so I wonder if you can talk about. How we translate an pivot from this from from this reactive procedure profit based system to something that is like you said, solution based that is preventative. And we are treating. We're we are supporting health instead of constantly treating disease something that has value driven. Yeah. Well, that's a great question and you know we talk about this a lot in in medical circles about moving away from procedure and the number of interventions that tend to drive revenue, and that's considered somehow the the value of our or the significance right of any medical institution, and that's why a lot of hospitals have struggled financially during the this pandemic is. Because there are a lot of elective procedures surgeries that were put off right or canceled or delayed. That was their major revenue stream and all sudden. We're realizing how important it is to go back to that value based you know template of of medicine and so I I love the fact that you mentioned preventative care right when because look we we have to we spend. So. In in our country, right we spend more than ten thousand dollars per capita writes a per individual on healthcare every year, which is almost twice as much as the next closest industrialized nation and we do not. Let's be very clear. We do not have better outcomes. Now, that being said. A large proportion of our health care dollars are spent in those final weeks of life right there spent in the ice user spent in. Experimental treatments and you know those those hail. Mary passes in some ways. Ryan's just like that. You know those extreme measures right imagine and I'm not saying critical care is an important. Of course it is, and sometimes it makes all the difference in the world. But imagine if we took a portion of that and we used more proactively in those early years, we use it more in prevention. We used it more in education. We used it more in in instruction. In right and so and so one of the things I wanted to to highlight is especially from the emergency medicine physicians perspective is we see firsthand although social determinants of health come to play. If you've heard that term before social determinants of health, it's about housing security. It's about food security. It's about education access to healthcare access to clean water and clean air. It's about you know educational resources. It's about all of that right will we see where all of those inequities come to. Fruition right when for example, a, you know you mentioned like a a young say a young child young African. American. Kid who's got asthma right now he lives in. Assuming a lot of these social determinants like maybe they live in a congested apartment complex third in a small apartment several family members they live in a community that is near, you know a you know smoke stacks, right? They don't have necessarily clean air to breach. There's also a less quality education this child might be receiving. The family is economically struggling they don't have food security or maybe they live in a food desert where all the parents can access is certain kinds of foods. They're just trying to keep their family alive, but they may not be the healthiest right they don't. They can't take the time off to. You know. Drive across town to get the fresh produce. Are they don't have a vehicle They just they're already living at this incredible like deficit rate and then on top of it, you put the fact that they can't access regular healthcare. So this kid can't go in for his preventative appointments they may not be able to afford his inhalers or they may even ration that inhaler to only use when he's really struggling. He can't stay away from smoke because that's his air all around them you know they can't have all the hypoallergenic bedding and clothing and different detergent for him because they just can't afford that. So. This child will have a perpetual struggle for so many reasons. So all of those Social Germans of health impact that one child now magnify that to millions of families, millions of kids, millions of parents out there that's what we're dealing with. So we can't look at this as just you know people talk about how our healthcare system is just simply having an insurance card right and therefore you have access healthcare it that's now that it's about education it's about housing it's about economic equity it's about resources you know having food security having clean air, clean water, clean playgrounds, and safe areas to play. Ron. It's about all those things that we just Downplay we don't take those factors into account, and so you could send a kid like a family like that health insurance card that's not necessarily gonNA lead to a better outcome. You have to address all those factors if you really want to improve that child's quality of life. Absolutely not I've been I've been thinking a lot in in trying to talk about a lot as much as I can the you said healthcare determinants another word I've been using his externalities and and how we we as as. You know people the microphone and legislators and? Everyone needs to be thinking about these weather. It's literally like. You WanNa. Talk about the stock market fine. Let's talk about like what what are these things actually exposed to and it's it's the same sort of mind map like you said for a a young black kid with asthma because if you if you reverse engineer all of those health determinants, like you said, all of those, all every single one of those things that he or she is exposed to was a decision that that has been made in systemic way in our society and he was she was always going to be exposed to those things There was always going to be a food desert, their best options were. A pharmacy or a or a dollar store, and at some point that stuff adds up and like you said it just it requires comprehensive change requires a upturning the entire thing. We can't just give them health card because you still haven't fixed anything else yet and I think you know this is one of those things where you know as emergency physicians I think especially women I think there are certain you know. Skills that we have that I think make make our voices just essential. To thoughtful evidence based pro policies I did a talk at a organization called Feminism, their their national conference last year and Feminine Stands For Women in Emergency, medicine and and the topics are my my my talk that the title was empathy equity and empowerment, and and why bring that up is because I think it is that perspective. bats allows us to understand how those three things can be utilized to improve these situations these social determinants of health and an empathy number one is obviously just being able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and you know and and that has to be something that can be done rapidly when you think about an emergency department, right you don't have this long-term reporter with somebody, right? You're not. You don't have the IT'S NOT A. Family doctor. I've been seeing them for twenty years. I know their family they come in and they're in a bad moment, a dire crisis and you have to establish trust very quickly so that they will tell you everything that's going on so that they trust you to take care of them. The best way you know how and that you actually have all the information you need to do your job, and that takes empathy and people understand when you. Truly, care they understand when you are empathic they they know when you're actually listening. So you know. I. Think that is something inherently strong in that field but I I happen to think women have that skill pretty sometimes better honed no no fence to You Mad. Oh, please. No. I mean like it's this is what we we've been saying. It's like look. Older white men have had their shot like at this point the statistics have bearded. It didn't work out like we're locked in our houses here. Yeah. No. That's a great weather whether it's proven that women have the empathy G.. E. G. Now which I'm pretty sure it has like, yeah, gotta be markedly better than the alternative which is just like again we're locked inside in the Seattle's arising it's not going great. Yeah. Well, that's good. Then you give me that opening to just say we are just more empathic so and then it's about the the addressing. Inequities right understanding the differences of you know when you could have to what like this child with asthma you could have two children who come in with Asna but their their outcomes will be radically different based on all those other factors right? Do they have you know health insurance but do they have apparent that can be at home with them if they get sick do they have access to clean? Air Can, they afford their medications do the parents are the parents adequately educated on? You know the warning signs to watch out for when to bring their child in are they living in a home where they can you know have the child with You know have a filter to clean the air, and so the child can have you know all of those right those factors have to be. Considered, you can't treat those two children exactly. The same. If you do you are you know committing blatant like ignorance malpractice in some ways because you know you can't send them home with the same discharge plan one is working with an entirely different set of variables and and so and then that's where the empowerment than comes in is that helping them find those resources right? We we inherently like I. You wouldn't send home a patient like that that child with asthma the African American kid. If he did not have access to all those resources, you're that's where you stop and you get the the department's social worker and you talk to them about getting into the Medicaid program making sure they have wick making sure they understand that used inhaler making sure that they have the educational resources you know helping them figure out how to eat healthy. All of those things that is just something we. Are. More in tune to and that is how you deliver better comp brands care and that's how we have to approach the whole constellation of problems that you cannot just put a band aid on it or put a single like you know solution on this. This is a multi bacterial problem that like you said as existed for for you know decades if not centuries and we got peel it apart, we gotta find all those core weaknesses and fracture lines and discriminatory practices or injustices and we rebuild. So it is more equitable across the line and I'll tell you that's an investment in our collective well-being that is going to not only help us keep our fellow human beings safer and healthier and happier and more productive but it's going to be economically better for our nation as well as we spend. So much of our healthcare dollars as an afterthought retroactively trying to put out the fires. Yeah. It makes a lot I mean include just makes them. It's one of those things where you're just banging your head against the wall so hard how many? How are we not seeing this? It's it's it's crazy. The president goes to a hospital that is literally designed for him and leaves forty eight hours later. Meanwhile, I I mean you have spent some time in correct me if I'm wrong here on a board of directors for your counties public health care system is correct. Yet so there's there's some news of recently Regarding a system like that. But in Los Angeles some great great article in the La Times. And just to to quote it here because I was just thinking about this this week discovered that in La public health care system, the average weight. In that system to see a specialist was eighty nine days according to a tiny state analysis of more than eight hundred, sixty thousand requests for specialty care at the La County. Department. Of Health Services a sprawling safety net system that. Know to editorialize serves more than two million people. It's huge. It's complex Los. Angeles eight cities went right whatever serving again the region's. Poorest. And most vulnerable residents. But the they made a point to talk about. So many of these folks didn't the hoity nine days because they just died. Yeah. He just didn't make it there, and so I fully understand I mean we when we're whether we're talking about the VA, which by the way, this number actually worse than the va which is hard to do. But the public health is always been isn't teen right and by a lot of folks relatively ignored, you've got these healthcare startups and that's great. But like we have to fix this vitally important infrastructure among are increasingly urbanized cities and counties. And for a lot of folks I feel like until they started following forty epidemiologists on twitter this year their understanding of public health is limited to flu shots vaccinating their kids. So I wonder if you can talk a little bit about. The practicalities of that work is like for you why that's important you how that translates both to other counties, but also on on a more federal level. Yeah no absolutely our county health system Is it? A perpetual state of struggle right to obtain adequate funding are the population of air. Copa County has grown So rapidly that we are now the fourth of I think Dennis fourth largest county in the nation and yeah, and and I've been here for twenty four plus years at in Arizona and I mean it's amazing the amount of growth right like where I live probably about a mile. North of me beyond that was all orange groves and desert. Now, you could drive for forty miles and there are neighborhood after neighborhood after little town. After you know I mean the growth has been exponential. So that being said, our county healthcare system has struggled to keep up right in our in our in our densest areas we have. Tried to expand the services and I'm really proud of the fact that acute a couple years back we passed a very huge ballot initiative that you know every American county residents voted for that funded a huge expansion of our county hospital. so that was fantastic I. It's still it's been expanded. It's been reopened with this new name. They're still you know tweaking and still adding on a few things. They've also am really proud to say this they've. Also. Put Out these satellite family and community health centers which I think that is the big piece that is missing for a lot of hospitals because you can't just have this one centralized hospital right? You've got communities where you know people may not have transportation. They may just not know like how do I you know get care there but a lot of it is also about representation when you have community medical centers in these, you know these. You know lat next communities, for example, and you have healthcare providers who speak Spanish fluently, they are very well versed in certain cultural behaviors and things like that. That's where people are gonNA. Go. That's where they're gonNA feel a sense of trust and understanding, and that's where they're more likely to be compliant with medical Direction and guidance right and that's where you're going to get better outcomes. So we have to have more of those community health centers that actually feel like they're ingrained into the community that they are a place where people are feel more at home more comfortable they they're more trusting. And I tell you, I mean there's been know data on this right there have been there's been study after study on healthcare disparities and shows that one of the to actually to the factors that really help is number one having more of those in our on the ground community health centers. But number two is having more diversity in those healthcare professionals rights. If you watch in and you see nurses and lap tech's doctors that look more like your community, you're more likely to go there when you need medical care, you're more likely to follow their guidance. You're more likely to bring your family members and Anybody else who's sick and it just leads to better outcomes. So I'm so proud of our healthcare of our county healthcare system. Maricopa County Medical Center, which is now called Valley's a medical center, but they have invested in this community medical community health centers, which are going to make a huge impact and the other area where it really helps to with mental health services and dealing with of addiction because you know. Historically right. There's all the stigma that goes along with that people are less likely to pursue that nobody's GonNa drive twenty miles when they just don't think they're gonNA get the the respect and the care and the kindness that they they they deserve. But if there's a health center in their own community and they get the word of mouth that there's you know these are people that you'll be able to relate to connect with. Their more likely to seek care more likely to seek those services and and that just you know all of that is just ha's. feedback into those communities that just leads to long-term better outcomes. So it's A. That investment by our values center I think is just a not just a very thoughtful data driven investment, but it's going to lead to such improvement in health outcomes for so many members of the community that have been in dire need for good medical care for far too long. I mean it makes sense right? It comes down to trust and if you're a person of color in America I understand fully, if you Y Y, you would not trust your local healthcare systems, which below people blow even white people in and out the door So quickly, these days much less a black browner indigenous person it's it's it's it's crazy I think about in right here in Virginia. There's a gentleman running for Congress in Richmond Dr Cameron Webb, and he would be an and this is kind of taking like you were just saying this this trust this representation thing to the next level in a moment where. So many people don't know whether to trust Kovic Messaging Right yet, brown indigenous people are suffering just slightly worse than others you've got before covid I think black moms diet something like the Taliban weights three times. White moms and yet the same time. Dr Web would be the first black doctor in Congress and and just what does that I mean? That is measurable at huge matters. So much I think his life is also emergency room physician, which is just like overachievers. I mean it's but that matters on I'm sure it has mattered in his community in her community him and I it will matter so much to have someone that frankly looks like. Helping with that messaging and some of the WHO has spent and I know you. Believe not born here. You came here but it doesn't. Matter, there, there will be people who look up to you who are getting news from facebook instagram and a forty different ways, but but they can I think they will feel like they can trust you and that not just because of your work, you know that just that it matters it matters and we're not doing a good enough job with a congress that's full of white lawyers. Now and that's why we need more diverse voices right in DC at all levels and not just in. DC. At all levels of government I mean sweaters city councils and school boards you know or or all the way up to the White House we need more diverse leaders and voices and when you think about it. You it. It's. It's. It's common sense. Right to understand that that will lead to richer more thoughtful or comprehensive and robust policies. If you have a table and I think you probably remember right we saw this picture of a I think it was like twelve white man around the table that we're discussing women's Reproductive Health Rights Nelia. This I mean, it's comical right? I mean that's almost like you couldn't have staged that any worse. But think about if you have, you're talking about say educate let's take something even different than healthcare education and you would around the table you put a teachers you put principles you put a school psychologist you put parents who've seen their child struggle in different school settings, public charter private, whatever you have students who are now adults who have gone through. Turmoil different levels of Education and then you have that that richness of dialogue right at that table think about the education policies that will come out of that group. It will be comprehensive, it will be thoughtful it will address. So many of those otherwise forgotten variables and that will be robust policy that will not only have long lasting benefit what will more likely have a chance to also receive bipartisan support because it represents such a wide swath of our population. So we need that for everything, you need that for healthcare we need that and that's important. I mean I'm not gonNA. Why? Like I'm not gonNA decide how to do you know work on a plumbing project without talking to plumber like why would you discuss healthcare without having doctors of the table without having patients without having nurses? I, mean it just doesn't make sense and that's what we have right now. So yeah we cameron he's fantastic I, am cheering him on. He's he and I have been doing a lot of events virtually together because I don't think there's been a time a moment that we need more voices like like his and mine and so many other scientists and physicians who are hoping to bring their data driven approach their empathy and their problem solving skills took to Washington. I think it just makes it personal for for for voters and constituents. To feel like there's there's somebody that they can identify. Because often that just isn't and I think that was part of the disappointment, a of of Biden being the choice for a lot of folks like it's just the same he's going to be great but it's just the same thing when we have opportunities to have folks like yourselves. Out there and standing in for people. Yeah. You know I'll share a really brief story here on when I first started running I was You know there's some like neighborhood community it was like an Indian. India Day or something like celebrating Indian culture and Food and everything rates those up his outdoor park inch in Scottsdale and there was a all these booths setup and you know some boots you know you go to get a little Indian sack they would have Hannah painting or whatever. So anyway, I had my booth there for my Gresham campaign just to talk to people in the community and hear about the issues that matter to their families and so I was kind of walking around strolling around just you know doing the. meet. Greek. Thing and this was obviously before Cova and and as I start coming back around this ripple back to my booth. There's a little girl who standing at the side of it little Indian girl. She was about nine years old and see her standing there, and then as I'm walking towards her she captures my eye and she runs to me runs to me just you know with just this like her eyes light up and she comes to me and she gives me a big hug just rats arms around me tightly and she's just like Dr Harold Hero and I you know her at she was just the sweet girl who was hugging me and then she's like she takes my hand. She goes I wanNA take you to see my parents I wanna take you see my parents and so there's this couple that standing on the other side of the booth that was talking to some of my staff. So she drags me over to them at she liked presents me to her parents and she says to her mom. And I'll never this she talks presents your mom. Mom I could be this. I could be Dr All. Get better than that and. I you know I mean tears came to my eyes her mom gave me a big. Hug. The Dad gave me a big hug and she just kept show this little girl just jumping up and down like I could be a doctor I could run for Congress I could be a leader and it's it was it was exactly that what you've said is C-. You can't be which can't see. Right And for this little girl. She was just marveling at the fact that there was a brown woman that was a physician that was hoping to to be a voice in Congress, and it made all difference for her. And that is critical for every kit out there every young person should be able to look at that composite of our leadership in our most, you know stately halls whether it's at our state capitals, town city halls, or in DC, and be able to find people in that composite picture that look like them to tell them. You too can be here you. You should be hear your voice is important here. I love that we have. It must have been a nice moment. It was amazing. It's amazing. There's a lot of tears. Her just a, it was just a big crew group bear hug. We're we're remember hugs. All Free Covet. Hero. I want to ask you about your your history, a bit Quinn and I are are very big supporters of of cancer research and treatment efforts. and. Cancer seems to have been a major part of your life. Can You? Can you talk to us a bit about what cancer has taken from you and and where it has taken you? Yeah. No absolutely. So You know and it's one of these things right as a physician somehow I don't know why you think it's not gonna hit your family because somehow you think because I'm a doctor that. I don't know it's irrational thinking but when my mom was diagnosed with cancer, you know my my whole world fell apart right I just become a new mom My oldest was Should have been at eight months old at the time when my mom diagnosed and. And You know my mom was like this healthy picture of perfect like. You know health practices. You know she walked three miles a day. She never ate meat. She never smoked never drank alcohol. You know she was just. As healthy as can be like you would never. But obviously, we know that that doesn't mean anything right but anyway so yes, she was diagnosed with cancer and after. Initially. Getting. What we thought was cured her cancer came back with a vengeance. It her body was riddled with Matt's it was primarily in her liver. She underwent a liver section that was not successful, and just as we were about to initiate some experimental therapy on her shot her liver just collapsed went into full paddock failure and she ended up passing away fairly quickly and it was you know one of those things where again like I had access right to amazing resources that are my parents had good health insurance my dad would still working but or I'm sorry no, they were probably on. Our Own Oh there on Cobra, because my dad had retired but they were on medic area. So they were on Cobra. But anyways, they were covered. I had obviously you know the ability to reach out to specialists all around the country which I did too to tap into clinical trials and find out this and that and navigate through our healthcare. Just because you know I had more understanding of it but you know she eventually succumbed to the cancer and then just a a couple years after that my nephew. Who at the time when he was diagnosed with was six he turned seven shortly thereafter. was diagnosed with all with a acute lymphocytic leukemia and. and. Evolve Children Leukemia's at this sounds awful. Right of all childhood cancers like. This is the one like you you would prefer to have because it's got such a high. Cure rate. It's got a really good prognosis As it turns out my nephew had a very rare form of it is he had a certain cell receptor type that made it completely resisted. He never went into initial remission at all. So he ended up being incredibly rare case of A. Highly Virulent untreatable form of AOL to the point where he ended up needing experimental treatments Berry you know toxic chemo combination, and ultimately it was decided that he would need a bone marrow transplant while I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with the National Bone Marrow Registry for sure. Yeah. But that's you know the MVP on national marrow donor program. But anyways so here's this Indian kid right who needs a bomer transplant well Guess what when they looked for matches for him. They didn't find any ten out of ten matches The kid, and this is interesting. The kid in the room right next door very similar yet different for me. I think at am L., which traditionally needs a bone marrow transplant but so he had seven pages of matches ten at a time right like seven. Yeah. Like an on every page, there was like twenty matches. So we're talking like maybe one hundred and four, hundred, fifty batches that he could have potentially got Merrill from my nephew. Zero. So and of course, this is after know. Got Tested to see if we can match like I think the highest highest we got was a seven out of ten and. For people listening the ten attendants means that all these different markers are met so that there's less chance of rejection and there's a good chance of actually are. Responding to that. So ultimately, we had to do a whole summer our full of. Bone marrow drives, right where we were in, we had family and friends a network all across the country that set up these drives to get people of South Asian descent to register in the bone marrow registry so that we could ultimately find a match for him We ended up bringing in thousands of South Asians into the registry thankfully, but unfortunately, the highest he got with still. Seven or eight out of ten. So ultimately, he ended up getting a fetal cord blood transplant which We were just grateful to get again. It was not a ten out of ten He got that in June. So he was diagnosed in March. Got That in June. And he did not make it to one hundred days post transplant as far as as far as recovery is Would he make him back with a vengeance prior today hundred and he ended up passing away that November so was like an eight month course. which is the which was just horrific So he was seven when he passed and Yeah so and I'll tell you what I did is. I mean after that after losing him. I just lost my mom and. You know all I wanted to do stay home inches. Hugged my children like I just did not want to like leave. Them for a second rate and my kids at that time were fairly young and so I just took some time off work and I just wanted to like sit there and snuggle them tight and not let them go and then I went back to clinical practice for awhile and it was just emotionally was it was taken a toll on me. I couldn't walk into a kid's room without breaking down in tears, which was you know they teach you in medical school to have this. professional emotional distance, right because you cannot get. Drained by every. Encounter right because obviously that can take that can suck the. Life out of you and it can really impact your ability to be professional and do your job and but it was just too sooner. It was just too harsh. So anyways I took some time off. I learned about an incredible opportunity to work to use my skills in cancer research advocacy where I could help bring a. Research. And the funding agencies together for Children Leukemia, breast, cancer, prostate cancer, this of the areas that are kind of focused on and help bet the science make sure that it was really impactful research and then make sure we funded it and it delivered. You know real results for people going through cancer and their families and to me it just felt like It was an amazing chance for me to honor my my mom and my nephews memories and to hopefully be able to alleviate. A similar burden off of other families that are family had gone through. Thank you so much for sharing that first of all Terribly. So clear like whether it's this subject no matter. The subject you know we're big believers that numbers and data and all that is great. But now it's personal stories that that get people to. connect. So we very much appreciate you sharing that there's Yeah. Absolutely. Walk. Chaigneau. We're. Not at all, we're we we've both got some some some unfortunately some connections to cancer and. Not, nearly to the certainly the professional extent that you do, but it is it has galvanized us and You all the help it can get their I mean, there's no rhyme or reason, right? We're all vulnerable. That's why we have to and that's why it's important to invest in research. We have to make sure like NIH funding is preserved making making sure we have You know we're we're able to get that those amazing researchers to to be able to do the work so that we can actually really improve the lives of people going through treatment early diagnosis, maybe genetic testing personalized therapies. Just you know there's so many things we can do to improve the quality of life for people who are going through. Cancer and certainly the ultimate goal would obviously to be fine. Cheers and So. Yeah. It's it's. You know I just remembered my nephew. You know it forced him to like grow up very quickly. Right be in a hospital and be surrounded by adults all the time all this talk about very complex medical things and I'll tell you there's one day where I remember you know taking him for a little stroll with his IV pole out the courtyard of the hospital and I had certain explain to him why is all wisely Kimia was not going into remission? And and told him well, you know it's A. It's just A. You got a special form of AOL. You got a special form of leukemia. It's not it's not typical and. So we gotta find a special treatment you know and and. You know where he could have said you know I don't know I mean he was seven anything he would have said would have been acceptable at that point. But what he said to me was well, maybe you know if if they can figure out what might work for me than you know maybe it'll help other kids. So they don't even have to get a first place. Wow, and you know and it's just. It just makes you realize like can I am so curious about the the you said that ten out of ten in the you know when you're talking about the bone marrow, what are those? What why can one person have a hundred and fifty matches in one person have zero? That's a great question. So I mean obviously, a look are South Asian population although it is a a decent proportion at many communities across our country were certainly still very much a minority right. So first of all, just if you look at the number of people that are in our national Mero registry, the vast majority are Caucasians right there there your average white American person and so. South Asians even African Americans certainly Hispanic Americans. All of those folks are less likely to find matches specifically because there's just less of those but also because I, think it's just something that I think we have to educate these communities on. You know we have to make sure that people know that there is this thing called this registry. It's just like you know we know about blood blood drives, right blood donation making sure that their blood types that match certain people. Well, we need to make sure people understand that for bone marrow transplants there. has to be matching as well, and that requires knowing what what donors are out there. So and it's simple. Now, right it used to be where they had to take blood. Now it's a Swat So it's really simple and There's a if you go to you know Mero Dot Org www dot org that is the MVP website. It has all sorts of great information and for anybody out there listening who is not on the marrow registry whether you're South Asian African, American Hispanic or White, whatever please it yourself in that registry because. This is the silver lining here. Right guys is that from? Rhodesians from the marrow drives that we did for my nephew Rodgen we've had we've learned of dozens of matches that have come from that have made. You know that have saved people's lives a cousin of mine actually was able to to give his marrow to a girl who was suffering from a plastic anemia saved her life so. This work that was done you know enrolled agents name is left a legacy of hope and of you know life saving intervention. So. If that's one public service announcement. Please everybody become part of the REGIO. Life. Awesome there's you know something. So special about somebody who's WHO's not only working on the front lines, but but trying to pay it forward you know and on you've worked with social the the Society of research administrators international and. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like through that you've you've spent much of the past decade trying to train the next generation of of research and data scientists that right Because if so we'd like to be supplies on the wall on you explain that to the current White, house? Yeah. It's really about understanding the value of good science right and understanding like how to. How to put together like good effective research because look there are there's there amazing bench researchers at clinical researchers out there, and there's no shortage of of need for all of those projects but there's clear difference in the impact right of certain work over other work and that's the that's the element that we always try to emphasize the two things are innovation and impact. Right? So let's find. Creative ways to solve these problems, and then let's really figure out if that's GonNa, make an impact in people's lives because there's some research that's fantastically interesting. But it's not going to actually change anybody's life right? Like it might be fascinating to us as scientists that it might. Make the cover of Time magazine or scientific American. But what's he going to do to somebody's quality of life who's dealing with that illness? Right and so it's not just about innovation you have to have innovation and impact when those two things are high quality in research. Those are the kind of research projects that you know we tend to lead into funding making sure your follow those You know those milestones whether it's two years, three years, five year projects, and really see how they come to fruition because WE WANNA make sure that we're incentivizing those researchers to do that work and we're talking about really cutting edge stuff right like. Exciting experimental therapeutics, early diagnostic tools, genetic markers just so many things that we can really develop that would. Make huge. Progress in cancer therapy, cancer diagnosis, cancer treatment. But at the end of the day, it's about improving the quality of life of people who are going through it and You know when you know that you can help somebody while they're getting chemo to be able to still like you know live a good quality of life That's everything family. That's everything. That's everything. Yeah we are all about that. Yeah. So yeah. That's what we gotTA. We gotta keep we got a lot of work to do guys. We got a lot of. We. Four we got we got to yeah well I'm getting the The Hook from my my wonderful hand. Up here. No. Hannah's always trying to. Understand. Just want to do most important part here, which is talk about the action steps people can strike here. Yeah. Like I said at the top, you know our goal is to. Find specific actions steps that we can take our listeners can take the important action oriented questions. We can ask at that help support you so So let's get it on that because this election is already underway with early voting having started in Arizona So let's start with their voice. What are the big actionable and specific questions we should all be asking of of our representatives. Yeah. Absolutely. While so early voting starts tomorrow cage ally because this will come out. I'm sorry. This is basically I. Miss You re-read. I'm in the future did not realize story. So Young's not tober seven was the beginning early voting. There you know. And that's when early ballots were mailed and an exciting news by the way for everybody in Arizona is that they extended the voter registration deadline to the twenty third of October the twenty third of October is now the deadline. So anybody WHO's out there has not registered vote someone anybody who is turning eighteen up to November third can register to vote Early you know if they're going to turn if they're going to turn eighteen and a time, but please everybody needs to be registered to vote your vote matters your vote counts I want everyone to know that you know the procedure voting is being done. So thoughtfully with. Our County Recorder with our Secretary State here in Arizona. Make sure that you know you when you get your early ballots in the mail you fill them out promptly, you send them back. There's a texting system in place that will tell you when your ballot was received when your signature is verified. So that means your vote was counted. C can sign up for that third their quarters office but we just WANNA make sure. Yeah and if you go in percent, there are multiple early in person voting stations all around the county in the state there's a listing of that. Yes we're GONNA make sure that obviously everybody wears a mask There will be doing very cautiously using all public health guidelines, but you can go safely and we anticipate because there's so many of those days and station set around that. We shouldn't have lines or large congregations of people hopefully, and you know Arizona, we have over eighty percent of our electric boats by mail early voting. So Yeah. Leaves that. We are leaders of this and we've honestly done a pretty against job of it I am very proud of our state and and that number is growing. So I'm sure after this next election, we'll see a higher number, but we've been doing it for over twenty years and doing it very well I think so I want everyone to have faith in the system to make sure you vote fill out your ballots, get to the polling stations. If you're not on the early the pebble but please please vote and make sure you research your candidates. And make sure you know where they stand and how they voted or what they propose to do on the issues that matter to your families and if healthcare is number one you know. Be Aware that there are there are people out there like my opponent who are right now signed on to a Supreme Court case that will go in front of Skoda's on November tenth to fully repeal the ACA and leave people with preexisting conditions high and dry So vote like your life depends on it I'm not saying that her hyperbolic Louis, you're our health, our wellbeing, our children's wellbeing their futures depends on this election vote like it does because that is the reality we're in If anybody would like to volunteer for our campaign they can send an email to field F. I e L D at Euro the number four Congress dot com. You can follow us on social media. We have an amazing follower following on facebook and on twitter on instagram share reach we post a join the conversation. We want to hear your thoughts and just tell your friends about about our campaign and then tell your friends about important candidates that are running in your communities like Dr Cameron Webb we WanNa. Make sure we get all of these fantastic candidates up and down the ballots across the nation elected. So we can get to work on these important issues and and just do better by our fellow Americans. That's tremendous. Thank you and what is the URL your campaign so that people can just yet throwdown. Yes. Yes contributions are always welcome it doesn't take. It takes resources to not only. Pay My amazing staff and keep agreed. To eat right we gotta keep a roof over his head as. And more importantly are not normally but importantly also is that getting our message out, which means we're sending out mailers or on TV, or you know just we got to get that message, every nook and cranny of this district. So you can look us up. It's my first name, hero H. I. R. A. L.. The word for F. O. R. CONGRESS DOT COM KIRO FOR CONGRESS DOT com go to the website we have social media links there. There's a contribution link there if anybody's in the district and wants a yard signed if you want to. Learn. More about the issues you WanNa see our endorsements you wanna see any interviews. It's all. Are you guys doing phone banking you can we do that? Yes you can sign up to volunteer. We have phone banking. Of Tech Spanking I think we've written every postcard can possibly right but. My my field team will get you hooked up with whatever you're able to do We are so grateful to every single amazing volunteer out there that has helped our efforts because this is a winnable seat I want everybody to understand this is within our reach where the Poles, but we gotta work hard to get this to the finish line we got twenty. Eight days left and we're GONNA work our butts off every single day and There's so much at stake. We. Can't. We. Can't. Afford to to leave anything. Behind we're GONNA, leave it all all out on the field up the same way. With it that works. Here. This is tremendous. We cannot thank you enough. No you have to get out of here. So thank you for your time and all that you're doing and cannot wait to see you out there make an absence ranger. Thank you both thank you, Brian and Quinn so much for this opportunity was really lovely to chat with you'll both and. Thanks for the work you're doing and getting these messages out and sharing some positive action items with the rest of the of our communities we appreciate it. Thanks to our incredible guest today, and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking dog walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp. Just. So Weird. Also. On facebook and Instagram at important, not important pinterest and Tumbler the same thing. So check us out follow US sheriffs like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this, and if you're really fucking awesome rate us on Apple podcasts keep lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website. IMPORTANT NOT IMPORTANT DOT COM. Thanks to the very awesome Tim blamed for our gym and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guy.

cancer Congress America Brian Calvert Kennedy DC Arizona asthma Phoenix twitter Quinn Emmett ACA Scottsdale DC Los
#75: Incentivizing Those Dirty Capitalists to Solve Climate Change for Us

Important, Not Important

1:12:45 hr | 1 year ago

#75: Incentivizing Those Dirty Capitalists to Solve Climate Change for Us

"Welcome to important not important. My name is Quinn Emmett and I'm Brian Calvert Kennedy. This is the podcast podcast where we dive into a specific topic question affecting everyone on the planet right now or in the next ten years or so if it can tell us or turn us into the wormhole from nine we're in our guests are scientists doctors engineers politicians astronauts even reverend and we work together toward action steps that our listeners can take their voice their boat and their dollar your friendly reminded you can send questions thoughts <hes> really anything hand-rolled artwork <hes> feedback to us at twitter at important portent not import email us at fun talk at important not important dot com. I got a new from guy the other day who said in response to the news item that we've built too many airports we gotta stop expanding airports because that means more more plane flights which means more missions right and I believe the email said you obviously don't own an airplane or need to find a place to park yours. You don't know what you're talking about. Whoa as I think you get? I feel like holy cow hat different pager anyways yes. We obviously don't own an airplane who the that's Insane Yup on that note you can join thousands of other smart people and subscribe your free. Weekly newsletter comes at your Fridays at important non-point dot com all the news you messed in about five minutes or less <hes> this week's episode we are talking about incentivizing those dirty capitalists to fucking soft climate change for us in the most positive and money making way possible by sucking carbon right out of the you're right out. You'll tell about our guest today yeah he's <hes> his name is Henry. el-kas pretty great guys super young he's very optimistic and he's action oriented and that is a refreshing for a millennial yet weight. Well millennials are very wait for really young action-oriented and all that stuff it's just the optimism is strange yeah now in great. We're optimism here. We're not doom and gloom. We are action-oriented. <hes> things are hard way but there's also a lot of good shit going on and that's what we're here talking about every week. If you WanNa hear US talk about absolutely nothing and change your topic every ten seconds you can check out fun talk jobs on Fridays as as our production people people said we go until Brian gets tired. They sell them yet which is sounds about right enemies. This is a really good one and <hes> I think will fill in the blinks a little bit on where we've come with the carbon capture and how <hes> expanded make a difference Henry Henry Okay our guest today is Henry Focus and together. We're GONNA talk about making carbon capture suck more but this time I'm with carrots and we will get to what the fuck that actually means Henry. Welcome tricky US having mates. What a wonderful the beer? We'll see we'll see she spoke to send me now. We're we're very happy. Thank you for being here. Let's get it going just by Henry. Just Sir let everybody know you know who are what you do sure so my name is Henry Oguz <hes> founder and C._E._o.. Of A unique organization called Helena we do something very simple <hes> but I guess quite ambitious we do individual one by one projects in each project is aimed aimed at trying to actually address operationally a societal problem so the first project we did was obviously in the field of carbon capture. We helped scale in launch. The world's first commercial carbon capture company climb works. We actually worked in a bunch of other sectors as well on <hes>. I know this podcast talks a lot about things that could end the world another project. We did for example passing a bunch of legislation to protect the electrical grid from going down whether that's cyber attack from a foreign adversary or solar stormer extreme weather so we're doing that I work in the medical space. What makes us different is that each project is completely custom made to identify an address psycho problem and I think what separates as well is the way we do the projects and they might be interesting all of the capital all of the resources utilized so the way that we come up with the ideas for these projects where we pay for them? The way that we operationalized them doesn't come from me. It comes from a group of people called. Helen members that we've recruited. There's about one hundred hundred fifty of them. All around the world we have a fulltime staff that works at them just to do these projects so the members sign up to use their abilities to projects and they're quite diverse so one of them is Nobel Peace Prize winner one of those a Republican Hedge Fund manager we have people on both sides of political and they're all united by this idea that they're going to work together to actually address problems in a no in a Nobel Shit Way and and put put forth their resources in operational mannered actually get it done so that's that massively separates us. I believe from every other organization that <hes> you know we were inspired by but but one innovative on interesting I'm into it I mean <hes> we are very much at this. At this point with a lot of again we are not just climate change. <hes> that is I'd probably forty percent which is still pretty good junk but with with items like that I like you said people on both sides of the I are are very much of the mind of honestly whatever gets done at this point. I don't really give a shit. You know what the other nine things are that we're going to battle about as long as we can get this. One thing done yeah agreed. I the other thing is there's this. There's this fascination in society today where people wake up in the morning and they say i. I'm going to go into politics. I'm GONNA use that as a way to change the world or I'm going to go into the nonprofit sector end. I find that weird you know matching you wake up in the morning. You say I'm GonNa define my life by working inside of a five one C.. Three Foundation that is different from everything else just because it takes tax-deductible money. I think that we should flip it. We should do the inverse which we say we need to find the most effective in moral way to solve the world's problems and then do that and if that means <hes> doing it for profit that doesn't mean is going to private sector is running for office. We should do all of it and we shouldn't segregate what we do based upon the structure. I think it's a weird fascination that we've had that I think is antiquated. Yeah I mean there are some extremely effective <hes> versions of that they do work. There are some that are that are not sadly. There are some <hes> big names <hes> that I don't think people realize are hardly ineffective. <hes> you know it's Cetera et cetera versions of that but but I I'm interested in this idea of looking the problem I we we've talked. I don't remember we have this sort of alternate. <hes> podcast universe where we push them Fridays which is just Brian. I talk about whatever the fuck we WANNA talk about for some reason. Some people prefer that to the world changing ones which drives me crazy but we've went about things and one of the things I've always been interested in is this idea of similarly flipping college majors on its head to to saying like okay you are majoring in the ocean you know or you're majoring in again climate change and and what that means from across disciplinary point of view because we need to come out at like we're political science as a major is is effectively at this point useless but political political science underneath a climate change major is really compelling because he's talking with oceanographers and atmospheric scientists and and and things like that and <hes> and that's where you hope that the the road meets the dollar a little bit so anyway I mean just add a note on this these fascinating examples of people accidentally solving problems <hes> without trying to or without at least trying to as the primary purpose one of my favorite examples. This is the movie blood diamonds you know is it Hollywood coming together compelling story to do a for profit movie but it waste raised awareness on this critical issue of the West African diamond trade and you know the this was Alita Caprivi where the goal is to make as much money as possible. Obviously they had a moral Bentiu telling the story <hes> but there there are these many examples where people kind of stumbling you talked about. I think on a prior prior podcast falling up the stairs are failing forward where we're we're. We're there's changes done in the world. That's not intentional and it shows the fields fields overlap in fields themselves or a social construction so I endorse that idea of having college majors that are different <hes> I I think there are these kind of horizontal functions that people should focus on rather than the vertical ones bell labs model right was usually all these these people down the hall from each other they run into each other people. I mean it's probably over exaggerated but I mean you look at their track record and you the building that <hes> Steve Jobs Bill for Pixar when he was still running it and how everybody has to go to the bathroom in and basically the same direction and yeah there's cafeteria and and the ideas come out of that and you're like yeah. They've done a pretty fucking good job so anyways it's shocking I mean the term university that Latin route universal holistic that put minds together and what's funny is that universities are now some of the most silo institutions in the world where you have people say oh. That's not in my field so I'm not going to work on you signed up to solve a problem. The world is signed up to contribute to human knowledge not to reach tenure hopefully <hes> and so so so it's so funny even the institutions that were built to solve this problem are now unfortunately standard bearers of of the problem in the first place in some cases in some cases. They're not but it's it's it's that Yep mcclay dig into all that yes yes very much and and then as we mentioned it but <hes> as everyone listening also <hes> what we're doing here we're going to set up some context quincy mixed up some context for our or question or a topic. It's usually a pretty ill informed and really entertaining <hes> Serbian yeah right right right <hes> and then we'll get into some <hes> some action oriented questions <hes> that get to the heart of of <hes> y you're here why we're all here and why we care about what you're doing sound good steward Henry relate to start with <hes> <hes> one important question to set the tone. I will note and I mentioned this to my wife this morning. We don't talk to a lot of white dude's anymore. <hes> just because <hes> The twentieth century I think proved itself out like we had our shot and things didn't go well <hes> and also we're white guys so that's that's enough. I I plead guilty to being look man born with it but you know got to expand the voice a little bit anyways so this better be good but anyways how instead of instead of saying tell she life story Henry. We like to ask Henry. Why are you vital to the survival of the species a man question question? It's not quite also this is otherwise we're not in good shape. I'll take a stab at it. I I plead ignorance instead of saying that I know the solution I think that are enough enough to know that no individual knows the solution given problem and instead what I do. Is I find the people that have spent their lives searching for the solution and I bring them together. You know I care about one thing which is using those assets using bringing people together to actually execute a project and get done and I just don't don't care whether it's through government business or outside of that realm so hopefully I'm not a the individual that is vital the species hopefully on the gateway drug through the other people that are that are vital the species and then I'm connecting agent. I'm an operational laser. I think the world needs more of that. There's there's there's this fascination in history of the single the great man theory which is a sexist and of itself in the name individuals there are these individuals Churchill's Alexander the great that have solved the world's problems or that were vital and I think there may be some cases where people have been vital but those are the exceptions to the rule not the rule and I think that there needs to be there needs to be more vendors groups of people that solve problems and people that facilitate that than there needs to be the great degrade individuals of history and I hope I'm one of those people I I opened facilitative take agent but I hope more importantly than that I can champion and spread the idea of it being okay that you enter a scary problem I climate change not knowing the solution of being committed to identifying the people that are trying their damnedest to do it and then bring them together and <hes> you know so if I am vital species because of that not because I'm some oracle that knows the answer were that I have some sort of our that is disproportionately asymmetrical that I get to exert <hes> I like the democracy of what we do to bring people together utilize their resources collectively. I think that's some beautiful about the twentieth century and the interconnectivity of the world that we have to not not to be to flu philosophical but I really believe that yeah and it can definitely go wrong. There's the twenty first century networking but <hes> yeah facilitators are helpful because ah so often where you you look around and go boy I early. That's that's how I try to look at things as well as look at it and say we wouldn't it be awesome just to see what these people could do together yeah. It's interesting <hes> awesome awesome all right well. I think that's very very humble but but but it's got insert backbone to it we'll take it we will you have passed. Check all right. Let's move onto some poorly hastily thrown together context about this and sometimes this is Super Wonky and <hes> for instance. This is how cholera works <hes> or or a space engine and sometimes it's more <hes> reality based anyways <hes> today. We're going to talk a little bit about carbon capture. We're really looking at it from the business and incentive point of view but we've covered carbon capture a couple of times on the show in an episode eleven we talk with <hes> the absolute legend <hes> David Hawkins of the N._R._D._C. About his hours later later in his reign to get carbon capture to really the the three tenants where where it's lacking like any new technology is which is efficient scalable and affordable in an episode fifteen we talked with really one of the best climate and clean energy reporters out there <hes> offshot Rathi of courts who can't recommend enough for following in talking to his he's. He's so connected fantastic you would you would love this guy but this is episode seventy four. It's been about a year so it's time to revisit a little bit and that's for a number reasons ends. One is <hes> the sort of different angle you're taking with it <hes> but also there's a few groups <hes> quite a few groups going out this now and two of the more prominent names <hes> people probably hear about if you're super nerds a pay attention to to news or or the show is a grew co carbon engineering and there's group called climax who I believe you're familiar with <hes> so they're pretty cool yeah yeah so again. This is the we try to dial it down to what is the level that people can understand while they're texting and driving at the same same time <hes> without getting wonky people can visit those episodes. We were just if you're going to listen to those episodes people we were we were babies. They were very early. Be Gentle anyways super simple two versions of of getting carbonated the air or of carbon capture one one is grabbing the shit. We've already put out in the air and snatching carbon as it leaves a dirty facility Yup and then there's a question again like anything else of what the hell do we do with it after we got it and there's a bunch of different answers in the fact that we haven't really settled on and one or a couple that are again efficient safe renewable <hes> scalable affordable is part of what's going on here so do we turn into fuel to he stuff it into the ground. We turned into rocks. Good news is we've proved we can do it but it's nowhere near scalable for what we need to do which is to save the world. <hes> that doesn't mean we won't get there. I mean it's apples to oranges but if you look at how much you know three years ago everybody said you know. Batteries are never going to be affordable for for when the sun's is not trying to get a winds blowing and battery call have come down something like ninety percent in two years again. It's different and battery has its own roadblocks. Certainly with the potential is is there we just have to come at it from a bunch of different angles which is going to the point today so the question today is current efforts around this around carbon itself are focused on punishing polluters right your regulation discussion of taxing slash imposing fees and then of course what do we do with that revenue carbon carbon credit trading the things that are working in California the northeast but if we're really going to involve capitalists we're going to need some business incentives and that's what I meant by carrots early right. We make money right. People people like money they WANNA make money and if this is is really an ice and I honestly believe it can be potentially the biggest if clean energy and carbon removal and all of this and retrofitting everything we have rebuilding everything we have is the biggest market of all time then we need to actually to proactively think about how to set it up for success people are greedy fucking monsters but we do have to meet them where they are because they can get you done because like you said it can be nonprofit it can be for profit can be university can be government. I don't give a shit how it gets done but if if this is how people are incentivized then let's do it so coming back to our topic of the week which is making carbon capture suck more but with carrots Henry. Where do you specifically seen opportunity to affect? This part of our goal is to survive the twenty-first century well. How did you guys <hes> with with your project listen? How did you come to climb marks and carbon capture? It's a perfect question. We noticed an important note. Um You talked about dumbing down and use that purpose to to folks. They're texting and driving. I was one of those people so when Helena started I was not a an expert in climate change whatsoever and I think that was that was a benefit in one way which is when we started looking at this problem with the members who were the the experts. This dichotomy hit us. I think I'm GonNa talk about that. I which is why are we in this problem in the first place and the reason why if you dumb it down into a binary into into just to two main issues were putting too much carbon and methane into the atmosphere as a society too quickly and everybody knows. It was that but even if society press a button and stops excess C._O.. Two going into the air and other gases. There's so much of it still in the atmosphere that stuck there that unless we remove that at a truly significant scale were not going to affect change in this problem. We're not going to get a close to the goals will be said in the Paris climate agreement or really anything that is intelligence <hes> that has been a prediction of what we need to do to reduce the global temperature to appoint a which society will not be affected in a truly bad way so when we're looking at both of these <hes> we noticed that there was a promise the private sector being able to like you said produce revenue by sucking carbon the air and turning into products and we've looked at the set of companies that were thinking of doing that and that's why we decided to go into that field. We said we're not <hes> resources or smart enough at the size we were at then to go into the field of preventing carbon from going into the atmosphere that I think that was a job for intergovernmental organizations for legislative bodies that had total top down control but entrepreneurship can solve the second problem entrepreneurship can create Comey's they can suck carbon the air and sell it what if we could focus on that so that was actually the impetus was just looking at it from kind of the veil of ignorance and and and seeing that there was there was there's this entire world to focus on that hadn't been propagated and you talked about this before three two three years ago I mean carbon capture is now are being talked about on the stumped by the presidential candidates. It's carbon capture and storage is not a household name yet but you know nerds talking about it and people that are policy was talking about night. I believe in couple years. It will be a household name. This was not something that was seen as a potential massive solution Russian even two or three years ago time flies Mrs when we went into it so so that's how we started just thinking about this in the first before we did any work was just noticing this glaring deficiency in the work balance of society and how entrepreneurship could address this problem well. We appreciate you doing that and it does seem like it. It seems like one of those problems if you are at all creatively incentivized in in solving large-scale problems you hear about this one and go. Wouldn't it be fucking great if this actually did work like what do I do to move that needle because you know like the news it came out this week when the when they finally the scientists did that huge map of where we need to plan all the trees and a trillion trees and how much of a difference that'll make and of course <hes> you know you can go back and forth on the on the margin of error there but that's all great. We've got a crackpot down in the Amazon has gotten them all down for for cows so it's it's not going to cut it and we have to move faster than that <hes> and a technology he like this. You know it just comes again. It's like whatever works. What do we have to do to to both incentivize people to participate in this to invest in this to lend their their time to it but you know I look at it as I remember a a cousin of mine got sick with cancer is fifteen years ago two years ago now and I couldn't be farther from like a medical doctor much less like an oncologist but every bone in my body was going? How do I help? How do I help like Oh? I'm a former college athlete. I'll sweat and so you sign up to raise money for at the time it was team in training the Leukemia Lymphoma Society and every thirty thousand bucks and I was like somebody else used this money to do the thing you need to do like that's that's what I can contribute and and in the I make a ridiculous you know extension from that to to get to climate change which is like what what can we do. You know Rackham you on climate change unclear. You definitely can't run from it. That's Mayor Berry Yeah <hes> so I think we mentioned but it's been like a year since since we've discussed carbon capture here on the on the podcast so let's get everyone up to speed on the technical side Henry from your perspective. Can you just kind of go over you know where we are now. What it what advances have been made what obstacles are still to be overcome? I'll start with a basic number. There was this report that came out of the a very lauded body called the American physical society a couple four years ago and it said I'm quite pessimistic about carbon capture it said that even economies of scale which is basically a fancy way of saying everybody in the world trying their hardest to do carbon capture at at at at at huge-scale <hes> that we would be <hes> it'd be hard pressed not impossible but hard-pressed to remove a single ton of carbon editing error for price under six hundred dollars single metric ton for price intersex dollars and the very first test plants not that I scaled plan for the first test plant that climb works and other other top companies in the space have put out have broken that theoretical limits so when we talk about the the growth curve that this technologist taking even the last couple years it has been massive the magic number though is under a hundred dollars metric ton. That's when you start getting to the point where this is competing with industries like the fossil fuel industry where it's just makes more sense to invest in this type of technology even if you're not thinking about impact at all and you just WanNa make money and that's open to to wind and solar right exactly exactly because they're like help. We're incentivized to profit if it and this is cheaper yes it's cheaper and this is what we talk about. The are there are these institutional structures like capitalism that if you can ride and you can provide a better solution for they do move quickly <hes> we saw that was solar fifteen twenty years ago the questions. We're we're. We're out there. Is this going to be a solution that that that the cost curve goes down on an answer was yes and now there are solar billionaires and I think it sounds crazy today but I think there will be carbon capture billionaires in the future so part of our goal when we're thinking about this as Helena the organization is how do we how do we cut short time how can because of our involvement and the people that we work with involvement make it. Let's just say it'll be fifteen or twenty years for that price to go down to attend all under one hundred dollars a ton. How can we short in that <hes>? There's a lot of different ways but that's our that's our chief. Concern is how can we kind of of course this Ford and then get out of the way and and and and let the tight of entrepreneurship work. I think the important thing to state though which is dangerous thing I don't WanNa be pessimistic. Is there's a there's a great criticism of carbon capture. That's actually a thematic. It's so true has nothing to do with technology which is people are fearful that we're talking about. We'll get people to be lazy that they'll say okay. These genius scientists are going to figure this out. We don't have to continue polluting and that's a problem so they're. They're what I don't want to state here on. This on this very lauded podcast is that were only going to be able to we only needs to rely on carbon capture. We don't the best time the best tag that I heard about this. There is no silver bullets for climate change. There's a silver buckshot and this is just one of the pellets to focus on this but we there's so many other things we have to do and we can't pretend that this is the knockout solution yeah I mean I feel like sweet Jesus. I hope anyone who's listening to seventy four episodes. This podcast understand that it's Buckshot the bullet or otherwise. I'm out like if we haven't it's like Holy Shit Man Jesus <hes> art to get that message into society and I'll give you an example and this is depressing as you guys know. There's a ninety seven plus percent consensus among scientists tests that humans cause climate change and there are theories of gravity that scientists agree on less than this yet. There's been successful messaging campaigns about what about the three percent of scientists that don't don't think this Oh there's been a consensus among scientists so there's the saying that in my mom's you need to you need to sit with something for multiple years free to change your mind. Sometimes you need to hear something over and over and over again and <hes> we have failed as a as a community of people proponents of addressing this problem at some of the messaging components of just telling people the basic facts look ninety. Seven percent of scientists thinking that this is a problem means. It's a problem <hes> it's the three percent doesn't matter it's it means the problem so so we have more work to do on just telling the story of climate change let alone the technologies and and I think some people miss that yen we we've we've had a few folks from various religious denominations on just again like if we disagree on nine out of ten things the fact that <hes> you know in the New Testament Dominica tells you to take care of the earth. Hey man if that's if that's what it's going to take the action steps from that episode where like <hes> get the fuck out of the way. Give us some money so we can go do our job and message this people on my great. Whatever the thing is because the A- as as I remember that mentioned that a lot of times it's not even the message it's the messenger that really makes such a difference and we've gotTa do can't shun these people and call them backwards find the people that do agree and do understand it are already messaging net empower them as much as you can because like you said it is there's been some real institutional failures on the front and of course the difference between this and something else like you said it's about cutting the time in half because as much as the buckshot like we desperately need this one to work we that M._O.? It's not very self driving cars which would be cool and great and yes we can go back and forth on it and turns out can take a lot longer. That's okay that's okay. This isn't going to cure everything but in a world where you WanNa Call Buckshot or the kitchen sinks would ever from stopping emissions entirely too planning a billion trees. It has to work but let me give you some is author. You guys some hope on this. I are examples of it. Yeah please I I'll I'll shamelessly plug a tedtalk. I did on this which is nice which is which is about the fact that society is reactive and it's not proactive however were really really frigging good once there's a problem album and we know it's a problem of getting asked together in solving it <hes> look at the Times in which there was this quote unquote enemy especially in it from the American standpoint the space race right people don't realize this when when Kennedy announced that in ten years in a decade we're GonNa land on the moon. <hes> people were freaking out there like this is not this is not possible like they're all these technical barriers and humanity proved that it was able to come together to address the problem the difference though and this is what's scary about climate change. It's not a personified threat. A lot of people aren't experiencing the dangers of climate change in their everyday lives but when there's a nuclear weapon when there's an army when it's the Americans fighting the British for independence. There's a personified threat. There's people you're fighting against and because climate change is missing that were not we're not getting the kick in the ass as a society as much as we did in other cases to address the problem so if there's a on the messaging side to keep going back to the storytelling part of this if people can see the personified threat of climate change <hes> in in society comes together it is remarkable how quickly we are able to address problems and it would not be crazy to state that we could we could we could half the cost curve of carbon capture. We could pass carbon tax legislation mccaren dividend proposals in the next couple years stuff like the new deal whether you like it or not I think could be passed legislation late night that could be passed if society gets around the personified threat of it and there's precedent for us doing it but we need a messaging solution to and I'm going to go down to tangents here on that note. The first is I think you're totally right and that same analogy a metaphor. Whatever whatever you WANNA call it applies to healthcare things that if you don't have someone if you don't know some with preexisting condition you're like I don't know why is it so bad that we get rid of brings editions? Fuck yourself the answer <hes> on the second note. It's it's that I I think it's coming to the forefront because we're seeing a now we can weaken quantitatively in qualitative value that these things are happening every week somewhere and we can see when eight aches a typhoon that should should not exist hits Mozambique. <hes> and people are suffering. You couldn't see that twenty years ago we wouldn't have heard about have you heard about Kiribati's yeah for for the viewers that are that that haven't heard about this on the cover of Time magazine. I think it was the Cook Islands but there are are these small island nations in the Pacific that have these visionary leaders. One of them is named at Notat tongue was prime minister cure bus. These countries are if current trends persist going to sink during the next couple of decades if not sooner and this'll be the first case in which we we lose countries because of rising sea levels because of climate change and I hope it doesn't get to the point where people have to sink in the second relocate for that to be the personified threat <hes> but hopefully if I mean the best scenario even if it does that that I finally the kicker that we have as a society past all the things that extreme weather hurricanes that are occurring due to it that are that are measurable sure and and you know it is hitting close to home to you know it's like we almost lost New Orleans fifteen years ago in this week you know might be the clincher. It's it's <hes> with the weather. That's happening. This week is when you apply that into New York City and you apply that to the fact that you know <hes> The San Francisco airports basically going to be under two feet of water and twenty five years. It's GonNa hit star. Take close to home real soon and you hopefully you hope that that does start to kick it into gear <hes> for for more and more people so there's one thing that does seem to unite people which is which is rage and and I see that pointed now more and more often both on the legal front and on the social front and on the on the investment front which is with fossil fuel companies and a few of them have actually made relatively small investments in companies like a carbon engineering and and climate works and while I think that would actually surprise folks that the doing that and I appreciate those companies participation the amounts are are absolutely minuscule compared to their profits right. They're spending more fighting carbon bills in Washington D._C.. He's in Washington state and defeating them then on these investments. It's it's frustrating. It's almost more frustrating than if they did nothing at all so we are seeing all these corporations that are that are going renewable at are doing things like <hes> you know the news the other day apples protecting twenty seven thousand Acre Mangrove forest but how do we encourage a quote unquote encourage these I mean every company but I guess then we can dial in fossil fuel food fossil fuel companies to do ten x one hundred thousand X. to what they're doing because of this again how integral a specific technology like this is the first thing is customer selection. We're now seeing the the maybe these companies. The ones that aren't acting aren't acting because their customers aren't selecting against their product because it's harming the world in this doesn't have to come from legislation when there's a product that has a negative societal extra analogy that hurts people <hes> this is finally a generation that is actually slotting against those companies. That's the first thing the second thing and I I give Walmart actually some credit as an example this probably heard of a program that Walmart did they change their supply chain and there were some great Helena members and other people that we worked with worked on this project the chancellor supply chain slightly in a way that actually made them more money but was more efficient industry with the scale of what this did the amount of C._O.. Two that Walmart did not put into the air that year that they would have had not made this change was more than the entire country of Germany. Germany put into the air that year so we have to work. We have to work with these companies because they are large. I think there's structural issues we have to talk about but we do have to work with these companies that that they have a legal precedent to address the issues of their shareholders and if we can become the shareholders we can bind to the companies as customers and as investors and demanded they make a change but also we can show them that actually are better for their bottom line but also better for the world. <hes> that the basic for staff that has massive massive changes beyond on just investing in carbon capture technology to other things there are things in their business model <hes> that we can change and Walmart. I think took a stand but there's many other countries in the accompanies in the fortune five hundred that are doing this Germany. That's mind-blowing yeah and it also just makes you realize how big some and these companies are just incredible. These are countries. I mean if you think about what's happening with face right now. Mark Zuckerberg is the CEO of a company that influences the minds of over two billion people ultra <unk>. We're being a society in which corporations have footprints that is larger than some societies where also living in society in which there are individuals outside of government that have larger platforms than the prime ministers of some countries you saw this with Taylor swift because remember Taylor swift a try and trying to take down a senator in her district didn't work interstates in work but she made a huge huge imp right and maybe vote dot org the next day Holy Shit number voters registered yesterday was out of control realizing <unk>. This is realizing that tower itself is changing and we need to use the the modell at the new modalities to use the two to academic word of power to effect change in these fields and this is why. I don't think it's bs to say that customer selection is is truly essential in our time you see these companies in these C._e._O.'s going down because of bad behavior the metoo movement. There's there's there's there's there's GonNa be I hope metoo movement but for climate in which in which companies that are truly hurting the world and that could make a change. Maybe they would makes less money or maybe they would even make the same or more money by making the change should and I believe hopefully it optimistically will be pressured to do that because of the power of public sentiment <music> Hey Brian. How are you enjoying our experience with anchor our new publishing platform and it has been such a nice improvement? It's it's like it's the future like the first time I could order pizza from my phone. Remember that life should just be this way feels like this is the future we were promised. Exactly anchor has been at the light. It's free. It's easy as hell. It's everything you need to make a podcast new one or an existing one like ours we moved right over so easy and it's all in one place. Are you can record and edit. They'll distribute your podcast everywhere on spotify apple podcast Google. I mean all the places right. Yeah and great news can make money from your podcasts yeah. That's that's a revelation to revelation. That's really nice so get out their kids download the anchor APP on whatever device he got and or go to anchor dot F._M.. To get started yeah. I'm a big believer in it. I mean there's this. There's this big and you can check my twitter feed anytime you like. It's a superfund thought to be depressing where positive or really action minded climate and energy and just world saving folks have interesting disagreement I and I just fall in the middle of it which is trying to be in the most pragmatic place which is for instance again when it comes to climate does personal action matter or is it have to be on the institutional government utility side that we're going to really make a difference because that is of course the objectively like the most prominent source of for instance emissions but to me on a personal level and again this is just me but I'm trying to be dramatic. I'm always thinking about how do we inspire much action. As possible possible which is if if Brian takes time to fucking look at his roof and go all right a fucking put solar on my roof and he calls the guy and he comes it gets a couple of estimates because he's trying to do the right thing and asked to take time off a work. A common finally put the fucking soul owners roof and somebody accidentally punches a whole and they gotta come back the next week and then he's got the solar and finally working and he see and how blow is electrical bill is and all that shit that that is gonNa make him a little more personally invested in holding these companies to task ask because it just makes you go like I did my fucking part man and I realized like it's not a big part but it it just gives you a little bit more of a lake to stand up and that's where I really agree on the customer selection front well well first first of all UGO Brian but second of all. I think we talk about doesn't need to be a choice. I say <unk> Knowle's dose you can you can you can have you can have top down changing. You get a bottom-up change just like you just in the theme of Action Steps. Here's as an actual example of that and and just to plug shamelessly climax even go to climber dot shop the website individuals can by carbon that clamorous is sucking out of the air per month. This is an actual way in which you can do that. It's truly remarkable. They've been able to pull this off and then other during the exact same thing so there are finally becoming ways in which the individual can do the Brian Action of putting putting solar in your roof yes but also buying carbon. That's been put out of the air at the same time that trickle effect it will affect change on the top down front with companies seeing okay our customers again are individuals that we care about our constituency cares about this. We're going to have to pass legislation. We're GONNA have to change our board seats. We're GONNA have to do top-down change across the fortune five hundred level. Both of these things can happen in both things these things are starting to happen and if you look at the kind of great changes that have occurred throughout history it has been a in most cases a trickle trickle down effect at the same time there are exceptions but <hes> I don't think there's going to be one of them and it just again not never example by any stretch but but those two things eventually do come together very often. Get like you said we've seen in the metoo stuff which is let's use a local chain local branch of a chain supermarket as an example apple. Let's say you live in a town where they <hes> they default the plastic bags or they charge you for paper bags or they don't have bags you can buy and and you're one of those people who who's aware that that is not the situation everywhere anymore and it drives you crazy and you write an op Ed to your local paper. I recognize that local news does not exist anymore and that's a disaster is not a blog or people follow you on your facebook right because it's a local or your next door and that starts to take off eventually someone at this supermarkets GonNa notice and someone incorporates GonNa notice that they're having this example this issue in in bump fuck wherever that stink is being raised and you can move the needle. Yes the institutionalized stuff. It's something like Brian what does it. It's it's like seventy. One companies or response or one hundred companies are responsible for your whatever seventy percent of missions hundred percent like it's a it's a nightmare I mean P._g.. Knee with with the with the transformers and the wires the wildfires I mean they should just go ooh down but that also comes from the bottom and we you have to participate because it will give you a Santa will incentivize you get people to drive that and this is one of the first times in history where that's even possible. That's important note where you see these companies. He's respond to social media now because it's become a p._r.. Issue you have some random guy in into Kansas has a problem with the company tweeted out and it becomes a massive global problem for the company and they make a change. There's good and bad about this but there's a lot of bad stuff that occurs win win any single person glitter voice on twitter and and this way stay on the twitter but <hes> there's also good and you know the best example this I I heard just just just a really bright in your morning there these cases in in in Syria where a terrorist will know that there is a person <hes> in hiding away in the because of twitter in a house and then go and kill the guy but then the guy actually uses twitter to get out of the problem because he listens to support of of other force to fight the terrorists or these realizing issues where these discussions that happened <hes> with with <hes> with with twitter leadership about what we incentivize. Which speech do we not but what is what is undoubtedly true is that individuals can make a change their social media? It is something that has happening. It's not fluffy. It's not it's it's. It's not a throwaway tactic. This is a core part of the strategy to affect change in in in the climate sure enemy. It's the same thing when it comes to voter registration right. What is the what is the that the phrase the feels repeated ad nauseam but it is stood? Just it is technically true which is like bring your most popular friend to vote for two registered because these things do prove out long <hes> so Henry. Let's talk about helping us more. <hes> you drop out of college to to form this <hes> there. Are you know there are so many young people that are opting out of or <hes> rebelling against the standard you know doctrine for a reliable future or or yelling at their baby buber parents. You know that the future is now on available to them because <hes> they blew it so so badly <hes> the the Helen Group as as you described focuses on bringing together <hes> talented folks <hes> across a multidisciplinary quilt of action oriented questions and projects and that is so fucking awesome why we love that <hes> in the case of climb works for example how is Helen is a network of smart folks involved in this specific projects so perfect example because we think about a company like climbers when we first started working with them. It actually started started because we did a price. We didn't know which company to work with period. We just knew that we wanted to work in the field of negative emissions so we didn't we asked the members. We said Hey guys. We're going to do this prize. We're going to ask you a couple of favors when we find some of the or if we find somebody we were confidence we said when and that can has a plan I actively Parvaneh ear and sell it. We want you to put your resources forward to support that company so they actually did this before. We found the company so I give credit to some of the members that represented can be put millions of dollars a pro consulting so they actually read a businessman <hes> rapid prototyping so actually physically developing the technology <hes> trying to route funding geopolitically talking heads of state mayors. I'm on the plane all the time. <hes> some of the Helena members are actually the elected officials that we're trying to sell carbon capture plans to do so it was throwing the book at every angle it was basically asking we do this every time do a project what assets do need to have in order to solve the problem. You're trying to solve the you don't currently have and that changes right so climbers at the time needed to raise more capital now. They're actually you know obviously we <unk> always more capital and then we invite that but there are different dynamics so we have actually worked on as many different aspects of the business as humanly possible changes right now <hes> like I said before were mostly focused on just selling these plants <hes> one crazy thing Europe as you can probably see if you if you go online has embraced this technology while the U._S. really hasn't I it to say it in a sad way so I'm kinda actually bring this technology to cities cities in the United States especially cities that have their own versions of for example Los Angeles has the Los Angeles Green New Deal <hes> these are the cities that should be purchasing this technology <hes> for a variety of reasons so I I'm. I'm at right now. I think the shameless salesman for bringing these plants here not because we don't own any any stock in in the company were not a prophet <unk>. Were profiting in any way so far. Maybe we'll in the future but not now on this technology. I just think this is the right thing to do so I'm I'm the evangelist now in the future. Maybe we'll do something different. Maybe we'll put together an investment fund and invest in more of these technologies. We don't no it's it's it's it's a case-by-case basis and that's dictated by what the members can do. We don't want to just say that. We're going to do something because it sounds cool. We want to identify which assets the members represent which multibillion dollar fund or company the members can tap into actually solve this problem which us us which which legislative action which can actually right and pass so we look at it from that Horizontal Lens of what the members can do first and then we apply those assets I mean it's almost like an advocate stance right which there's just like look. I'm not getting anything out of this. Maybe I will in the future and that's great or we will but in the meantime we we've got to get this out there and everybody exactly it's it's. It's like the it's you know. It's our it's our version of of the avengers you know I find people that would have never otherwise spats but the that themselves are the best in the world or close to it at what they do and put them together and unite them around certain projects and by the way a lot of the members that have worked on this carbon capture project aren't in the carbon capture or the climate space. These are some of the top business people on the planet. These are some of talk elected officials Nobel Peace Prize winners in denuclearization but they have brains that can attach to a problem like this and it's actually sometimes the kind of intellectual diversity if you will a people that aren't in a specific field when they when they wrap their mind around something they don't do <hes> that they weren't trained in actually have insights that exceed that of the people that kind of stuck in in the space in the silo. I think that's one of the advantages we have is that I don't. I don't just haven't Helena Bunch of people that have spent thirty forty years in the climate space a lot of those folks well incredible in there the core the effort <hes> are are kind of in kind of in the silo there in the in the Echo Chamber and they're not they're not positive of which solutions will resonate with people that don't have the same mindset that they do speaking of <hes> not having skill a tools that you need. What what are the big? What are you guys running into a obstacles? Why what what what <hes> obstacles are you running into? What what do you need that you that you don't have an in our these issues technical or is it fundraising or networking or political or all so I I? I think the most important thing that we're trying to do with carbon capture project is to not rely on legislation for to work to get them race down just by the private sector because we don't want to run the projects say just lobbying government with that said yes a huge huge huge accelerates would be passing legislation and you talked about action steps. I'll give you one and I'll give you a Republican action. Step just just just add some flavor to this. You guys probably heard of the carbon dividend proposal <hes> this is. This is a brain shot of of someone really really cool. Guys name is Ted Halstead. He's gone. I think almost every living Republican secretary of state to sign onto this plan. It's actually similar to <hes> to to name a Democrat would injure Yang is proposing with the freedom dividend. It's a carbon dioxide propose on what you do is you tax the excess negative externalities of companies in this case it's carbon and and then put that into a giant pile of of of capital pile fund and then bring that back to the People United States pay eight individuals the United States for the excess carbon that is going to their from these companies something like that would would provide a hell of a stimulus to carbon capture it really really would it would also do other stuff that people aren't thinking deeply about think about cement cement is a four hundred fifty billion dollar industry. You talked about the <hes> the runway of San Francisco airports sinking a soon interestingly. I swear I didn't prepare this interesting synchronicity that there is carbon negative cement that is actually paving the San Francisco runway. There's an incredible company that has a technologist cement technology that one of the inputs is carbon that can be removed from the atmosphere and as a test case the runway the San Francisco Airport is actually paved with with with cement so there are these massive industries as a great book by Paul Hawkins called drawdown that actually ranks them in the end refrigeration is a huge industry so this urban dividend proposal in these these legislative tools can affect exchange far outside of carbon capture it can affect change in these gargantuan industries like cement refrigeration A. C. Transportation that would highly benefit from doing it think about a company like Tesla. If you remember during the debate Mitt Romney I think it was I forgot what year was <hes>. It was kind of crapping over Tesla and saying why is the government putting subsidy capital during a recession to this business. They're never gonNA pay it back. They paid it back with the premium. Thank you very much and subsidy that got that got the company. I believe it was a significant part that can happen with others with other fields so again while we're not. We're prepared to do this without government help. I do think that government help can greatly accelerate the function. Yeah I imagine though you're being having to be realistic. which is you can lobby? Oh you want but for the next two years. You're not going to get that government help. You know what's so interesting about this in. Maybe I'm being too optimistic but at the same time in the spirit of impossible kind of possible. I don't think it's impossible to to get Republican action on this issue. If you can create jobs blue collar jobs in middle American flyover states in these spaces like cement N._A._C._e.. In refrigeration <hes> if you can provide these incentives for four profit businesses that are the constituents of some of some of the folks that are being lobbied on this issue as you think you can so that's why when I wanted to give you this action step it was a Republican action step so the case that the Democratic Party happens to be a more activist and progressive when it comes to incentives for climate work yes but is it also the case that the Republican Party as far as infrastructure in some of the core emissions a amid of technologies is a huge backer of it also yes and we can provide comfort's with a way to make more money were the same in a way that is less amid. They're going to jump at these. These aren't maybe some people would agree these. Most of these folks are not core bad people at their core but they are incentivized by type of constituency that that that that that has that has goals that might differ from others and I think we we need to rationalize understand that if you're if you're a coal miner in West Virginia and your a family is made X. amount of money the last couple generations in your job goes away. You're not gonNA sit with the fifty page breathing document on the green new deal and think about the intricacies of what the bill could do over the next ten twenty years. You're thinking about family and what I'm trying to think about his what solutions can it also worked for those folks no and it's really true and this is where again we come to whatever gets done whoever gets done <hes> to to reach the same goal because you do have to in this why you know already again from both Republican side and the and the and some of the Democrats some more centered Democrats you know they already yelled green new deal and say well. Why does there have to be jobs in it or what is their Armenta justice and you're like feels like you're not paying attention ship matters <music> huck and brave man? It's just start just stop so getting towards action here. Carbon capture again like you said three years ago is a pipe dream for even people who are involved in it and now it's making change but it does feel not fantastical but I could see how for for a majority of our listeners. It feels like on an action front how that's something that's difficult to participate in bright. You climb works as a way you can. You can buy the carbon offsetting but we do have a lot of our listeners are senators in Congress people in those fortune five hundred people who have gone clean and you know like you talk about drawdown we hit Catherine Wilkinson on a couple of weeks ago from from draw down and we've got these the state senators and legislators and scientists whatever what's the best way for those people the people with with power either elected or business wise that are on some sort of frontline that have the ability to move the needle to get involved solved to to concretely further the aims of carbon capture specific sure yes so specifically I passed the past the carbon dividend proposal or other bipartisan legislation that obviously you know an due diligence on WanNa think through a deeply but we have an these are commonsense solutions. The second thing is if you're involved in these large corporations like Walmart find the commonsense solutions that could make you the same or more amount of money by reducing massive amounts of C._o.. Two from the do those two things at the very beginning getting those are no brainers they hit your constituency there in your incentive line obvious <unk> in thing though when you think about carbon capture split into two categories and you guys really explain this while the being the podcast there's something called influ carbon capture church which companies like Occidental Petroleum like you mentioned show are doing which is basically putting a carbon capture device right next to a coal plants or omitting plant encountering right after it comes out and separately. There's stuff that we're working on which is called Ambient Air Carbon Capture Direct Eric Carbon Capture Church. There's two different ways to do this so influ. Carbon capture isn't investment that that these large corporations Utah about these leaders listen to podcasts or centers. They're involved in these in or being lobbying by these companies. These are the commonsense solutions of the companies can take on to reduce their ambitions. There's an argument that that kind capitulates the problem. I'm here for that argument to bid but that's one of them. Then we get into what we're working on which is direct air carbon capture and what I would say to them is support government investment funds that can make a bunch of money over the long term about this be proactive and not reactive think about the next ten twenty thirty years and I'll give you another one on top of this think about the geopolitical threat of of climate change one of our members of general McChrystal and he is ran the army during Iran Afghanistan and you've asked him. What is the biggest foreign policy threat to the United States? You would say one of them is carbon is climate change to think of this in a in think about climate refugees think about problems outside of the United States think about how the United States has become the top superpower in the world for <hes> for no one hundred fifty years. Because inside of the United States are all of the natural resources that we use to become that power think about the fact that that is going to go away with climate change unless we act on it and say what you want about Joe Biden but one of the things that he that he is optimistic about is that we can be the country that develops technology analogy to beat climate change or China can do that and I can tell you what China is one of the the the the biggest spenders in technology carbon capture and research and development not because they just want to save the world that part of it but because they have to their reliant on this this and this is a China has a ten thousand year plan. They've been doing this shit for ten thousand years there genus think very deeply and strategically we need to start thinking in a long term like they are a morale's. WE'RE GONNA lose the geopolitical Bauer so notice that everything I just said is not the Democratic Arctic Cardi plank is not necessarily the progressive plank. I could go and talk about that but there is a live amongst Democrats. There is a lemon amongst progressive. <hes> progressives would dump founding to me is that this is not a partisan problem. It's not a partisan problem. <hes> it has become one and because of a I think really smart messaging and and but it doesn't have to be so I think part of this is just showing that people can come together. People can make money by solving climate change. We're going to create so many different markets from it. I can go on and on you. Guys can make me shut up about this but this is the action steps here true not that that was the point of of today's discussion was like help me help you make money you know also survived this and things will stop burning and sees will slow the rising. You know it's like everybody wins everybody. I'll I'll give you one more thing that jumped into my head which actually think is a is true that not a lot of people talk about in the we talk about these giant companies that make such a large share of carbon emissions. Why are they doing that though and you ask them why? This is the case some of them given honest answer which I think is worth talking about putting into the putting into the universe here which is quarterly quarterly earnings these C._E._O.'s get fired and hired based on how much money they're making every quarter. They're not getting fired and hired based based upon their five or ten year plan in climate change is an example of his solution that can make a company a ton more money in need longer in medium-term and it just happens could affect their bottom line on a quarterly earnings reports so thinking about the structure of how companies think about making money they they don't want to have a public companies often. Don't really don't really want to look at their stock price every quarter and try to modulate that I know this is kind of a walkie thing to say very specific but this is another problem that we have here is that they're incentivized ron same with elections right. If you're getting if you are if if your constituencies reelect you or not reluctant two years or four years or six years and you have a perfect solution that is gonNA take ten years and you're going to be a villain for nine years in the second the tenth year hits. You'RE GONNA solve all the world's problems you're not going to do that. You're not gonNA BE INCENTIVIZE dukes. He's not gonNA get reelected so their incentive structures on a structural democratic in capitalistic level that we need to think about changing and I think there is some rhetoric from both parties about doing this supported. That's a really good point. That's awesome. It's not wonky so we like to a sort of start wrapping it up with the same thing. which is you know what can our listeners just just everyday folks not people that are running anything Brian <hes> what it's me? It's I'm talking about me. What can I <hes> you know what actions steps specific action steps can can <hes> people like me take <hes> with their voice their vote and they're they're dollar so let's get into that real quick so <hes> with their with their voice? You know we try to shine a light on where we can go as as a people so what are the big. Do you know actionable specific questions that we should be asking of our representatives of a representative the start of local level before we've yet lease individuals states individual cities have giant budgets right they can by hi carbon capture plants. They can pass legislation that makes a huge difference where both living in Los Angeles California's the sixth largest economy in the world so this excuse that the entire country needs to get together on a federal level to solve this problem on. I don't believe and you think about some people like Mayor Bloomberg who who have put together this coalitions of mayor's so on individual level citizens listen this podcast can can lobby <hes> an end end an in contact their local representative their state senator. We don't need the government federally to solve problems. We can do this to the state and local level by the way a lot of change think about gay marriage right this happened because the accumulation of individual states that got to the federal government that got the Supreme Court's can do this with climate change so yes lobby your lobbying Congress people your senator your presidents <hes> your large institutions nations but also think it'll local level at the same time. That's the first thing the second thing is I mentioned climber. Stop Shop but also <hes> websites that that allow you to personally by carbon to offset your travels this individuals that would be we make the the third thing is a lot of entrepreneurs are listening to this start companies that can make you extremely wealthy by saving the world especially by removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere making products from it. This is a space that during the next ten twenty years will make money go into the space. Don't create another APP. Don't connect people to send photos to one another. I love those are enough there enough of this country. There aren't enough people taking on these hard hard challenges. They're starting to be started company. If you're an entrepreneur. If you've got an ego you want to exercise do that so so so that's basic you know and the final thing is you social media lobby <hes> user voice in your power to lobby individual corporations about why they're not doing what they're doing so many examples of this working you know so I I think that those are the those are the basic things that the individual can do so many things things past that that that those are in power have the ability to do that are so monumentally top down as I change as well let it and what about our vote when it's voting time. What can we do vote people that have actual plans to pass legislation that has longterm longterm implications have the balls to do that? You know think about your interest but also think about people that are thinking a ten twenty thirty year forty your time span. I knew that was I._B._M.. Or ten thousand the some soup science stuff at the people that are thinking longer terms than there than their term limit. Guess what those are unselfish people that are trying to represent you in actuality. They're not just trying to get the votes to stay in power reward that incentivize people that are doing things that they won't get credit for. I think he's the one of the best quotes I've hurt us. Some as the best way to get it done is not to get credit. Give people credit who have that philosophy. That isn't the edible with your vote. I mean we don't do that enough. You know understand that that <hes> that the other thing understand that silos exist and try to break out of the silos try to understand and the issues that are afflicting folks in in five or states that <hes> if if we're part of the quote unquote coastal elites that we don't actually represent understand that there are marginalized communities that haven't contributed to climate change but are going to be screwed by climate change because of us because of the people that are putting so much so you itunes atmospheric sure if you're not gonNa do it for yourself. Do it for them. Do it for the people that haven't contributed to this problem and and what about our DOH. What can we do with our with our money to help if you're super superwealthy invest in these companies come become stockholders stockholders in these businesses that are fighting the norm become stockholders in these cement companies that are making cement up to ninety percent less amid of C._O.? Two wellbeing the same price if you're an individual like I said by Carbon Dividends Job by by carbon offsets these are very cheap. If you're gonNA take a flight across the country you can offset that flight individually the second thing is make political contributions to the to the Congress people in the senators in the local representatives that are thinking in the long term use use the power of the purse. <hes> we have a system that that unfortunately rewards campaign contributions nations and I wish that weren't the case and I think there should be changed but while we're within that system user you use the individual donation to candidates that matter awesome wasn't all right so we I mean first of all. Thank you so much again man for being here Harris has been so awesome <hes> we really really appreciate it and <hes> will will say. I hope it made the White Guy appearance worth it. I hope I stood up for for for as white white guy so over well. We'll if <hes> if you have any recommendations maybe we could talk later about <hes> some people that <hes> we should get in touch with a to me. Get on the show you know other other world changes like like you and Helena who wanna take action on climate or medicine or tech or space no way man autographs no recruit we get a Lotta incoming calls. We we make a lot outgoing calls but as Helena Dot Org Helena or <unk> members just see where ever you like me a shout. I'm sure they will have to appear awesome awesome. That's <hes> all right and now it's lightning round time. It's not a lightning round one day. We'll fix that last couple of questions and we'll get you out of here. Hey Henry Win was an I realize you're like seven years ago. When was the first time in your life when you realize the power of change or the power to do something meaningful it was actually recently? I got a call from a senator <hes> that the bill that we had written past and up until that point it was this crazy slog of sitting in a room with my staff whose works their asses off their incredible to write this legislation who all all of the minutia to get it through and the idea of passing that the you know the that that it was actually enacted into law and that it'll change people's lives was this shocked that kind of went over me and it was bliss and it made me addicted to that field of change and actually addressing people's law so that was about a year and a half ago. I think those the first thing I think the second thing <hes> was reading books you know I I was one of those people that got into books later in my life I wished that eight year old kid does reading the Elliott and you know <hes> you know homer and all and all that stuff but once I discovered the power of actually reading books sitting down alone in your room with a physical book not a kindle for for an hour and reading it that you can implant can't knowledge in your mind and then use it. You don't have to rely on other people to do that. It is so empowering it is something that everybody can do. I know that's basic thing but read read your books and I say this is a college dropout who does way through a lot of education of of not doing the reading before and if I could go back in time the one thing that would change when I was eight nine ten years older younger than immersed myself in books earlier. I try to find time to be alone today to just sit and read. It is the biggest tool that has made a Helena. I WanNa have any success but also is giving happiness in my life so if I can be an evangelist for one thing reader books who is someone in your life that has positively impacted your work in the past six months interesting. I think it's Beatrice Fin. She's a Helena member. She's a Nobel Peace Prize winner in denuclearization and <hes> Her story. Just the more time I've spent with her is crazy because if you think about this shoe was Swedish lawyer she's thirty five years old. She worked worked for five or six years on this issue and then when a Nobel Peace Prize in one of the most technically challenging and fraught `field which is preventing the use of nuclear weapons and I was just thinking look if she can do this <hes> we can address these problems and she talked about the messaging side of how she was able to create a social cost for the use of nuclear weapons and whenever I think about decisions that were making it Helen I often think about her playbook about how she was able to do this. Whenever I start complaining that we don't have enough money we don't have enough staff? I think about the fact that she had far less resources sources than Helena does right now and she wanted Nobel Peace Prize addressing one of the most challenging problems in the world so we could be like Beatrice then we can solve a lot of problems yeah that's motivational and inspirational. Hell big O'Brien friends going to make a bracelet sandy honey. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed? What's your Henry Time with my Henry is I? I wish it was skiing. It used to be a scary. He's a ski almost three hundred as a year and I I don't get to ski enough. I went to skydiving recently. I loved it was like experiencing a new you color do it. <hes> I read a ton like I said I try to run. I used to hate running. I was you know Sunny Kit. It is the worst but I'm starting to understand the running high friend. Thank you said. Where do I buy a running shoe so I think you know what I also do shutout to Tristan Harris who's a Helena member? Who's I think led this incredible movement to show the ills of social media? Is I turn my freaking phone off on purpose I by the way go to bed with your phone off outside of your room. Wake up without looking at your phone. It will change your life so I do that. <hes> I go through I go into the outdoors and I talked to people. I try to do things that my generation is not as good at Ryan's and it really change your life. It's very basic. There was this quote than I don't WanNa waste your guys as time but Asia <unk> some very important which is kind of two buckets bucket number. One is the story that you want to tell to the outside world about who you are in your brand and that's important but it's fabricated and then the second bucket is what actually makes you happy and sometimes the things that actually make you happy or unimpressive to say on a podcast or in front of people. They're listening 'cause it doesn't make you sound cool but those are just as important and for me that's being alone reading books having good conversations with people putting my phone outside my room experiencing meditation these basic things that don't sound super impressive but do those things things matter just because they don't sound cool necessarily. I think they're cool but does because they don't necessarily sound extremely interesting. <hes> do those well I if if more people actually profess to doing the maybe we could make them call him the first. I'll in the wake of that says it. I'm an introvert who goes to bed nine. Read fiction to go to sleep so I can stop climate change so I get this is a great one especially since the Nabet book reader if you could Henry Amazon Prime One book to Donald Trump. What would that be? Well Advanced GonNa give you guys a Dushi answer. I'm so sorry there's a book called on Bullshit and has written by the top professor at Princeton professor emeritus philosophies. It's very short <hes> anybody yet through it. <hes> and it describes the IT's hilarious philosophical deep dive onto bullshit onto lying onto fabrication and I'm not trying to make any points or I'm just saying that understanding. The roots of how Bullshit has is happening will buy it is not important for us <hes> I think I think it's great the the second thing and I'm GonNa give two bucks. I'm so sorry is the biography of of George Washington. He you know our president talks about being the greatest president of all time reading reading the biography of the first president of all of his faults. This was somebody that went against every single. This is someone who would have been killed for what he did. He led an army against the most powerful country in the world and how did he do it with poise and humility and without talking talking he did it he did in silence that was George. Washington's main quality is he showed and he didn't tell when they gave him the president's Day. This is interesting story <hes> they wanted to make him Congress wanted to make him king of the United States and he said No. I want to be called the president of the United States and at the the word president meant notetaker in you're the guy at the desk that takes notes during a meeting George Washington was such a great guy or person that <hes> he made the word President what it is today when we think about people trying to become the best president of the United States dates understand where that word came from came from humility it came from action and it came from not talking and I think those are the qualities that we need to have a as a country today. I dig it. I would love it if our president would not talk. That'd be fantastic. Read the books. I gave Navy like Henry. There's good that you what the Hell I came out of. Nowhere and I'll plug this. You guys should go. I have a hilarious instagram. It's called the ELK list. E Okay L. A. S. T. and I post every book that anybody recommends me that I actually go and read so suggest have to read it and posted on there and we should have the Quinn List Quinn all all of Quinn's books that he's recommended. I read that I have about it will be Graham speaking of social media where else can can our listeners follow you everywhere. Keep up today so twitter's at Henry. alkozai need to tweet Moore <hes>. I think twitter can be toxic place. Our website is Helena Dot Org. We have the twitter Helena Group and follow the ELK list. I don't have a public social media yet. I probably will in the future but the only thing that's public about me on Instagram is reading list actually think it's a great way to discover things that I'm doing these. I spent a lot of time reading and it's a good win in my mind but it's also a way for if any of the listeners here of any good book recommendations I will actually read them. All posted on there is important in part of my life. I'm staring at my bookshelf right now. Yeah you're about to get so fucking many from Quinton. Well listen man. We can't think enough your time today and all that you're doing it is inspiring even for gentleman <music>. It's been great man. I it's really been a lot of fun. <hes> hopefully we can connect again in the future when we see what you guys tackle next and thank you for doing this. This is a wonderful use of your time to do. A podcast like is that actually digs deep not into the problems but also into the solutions <music>. I'm glad that I get to talk about the seemingly wonky stuff like carbon dividend proposals in subsidies cement. These are things that'll solve the world's problems end. They're sexy. They're cool and it's great you guys. They're giving me apply to talk about them because usually when I do press it's it's less about about that and and and I I am thankful for that for Sherman. Absolutely we need it we will we will do it again soon. We'll talk to you soon man. Thanks so much better much thanks to our incredible will guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking Dole walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important Horton important dot com it is all the news most vital to our survival as species and you can follow us all over the Internet you can find us on twitter at important not imp so weird also on facebook and Instagram instagram at important not important interests and tumbler the same thing so check us out follow us share us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this and if you're really fucking awesome rate us on Apple podcasts keep the lights on thanks please fees and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website important not important dot com thanks to the very awesome tim blamed for our jam and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms.

Henry Henry twitter UGO Brian US Helen Group Brian Calvert Kennedy Henry Oguz Henry. Helena Henry Focus cholera Steve Jobs Quinn Emmett founder Time magazine Pixar
#76: Save the Corals, Save the World

Important, Not Important

1:09:17 hr | 1 year ago

#76: Save the Corals, Save the World

"Welcome mm too important not important. My name is brian calvert kennedy and my name. Is you wish hey brian yeah yeah. This is the podcast where we dive into a specific topic or question affecting everyone on this planet right now in the next ten years or so if it can kill us sir turn us into the andromeda strain we are in our guests are scientists doctors engineers politicians astronauts even at a reverend and and we work together towards action steps our listeners can take with their voice their vote their dollar and i'm increasingly feeling like in some vigilante way with like a batmans belt all the things he has cool. Maybe that should be the fourth thing voice vote dollar and like bat wing bat bat wing yup. This is your friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts feedback drawings to us on twitter at important not imp or email mail us at fun talking important not important dot com you can also join thousands of other smart people and subscribe to our free weekly newsletter important dot com. This week's episode is delightful. We're talking about snorkeling and so fun and how what you see when you snorkel or i guess in this okay specifically what you don't see any more <hes> means. We're gonna. We're gonna die right. This is going to get everybody to wanna listen yeah. No it's really great. It's really delightful. Our guest is dr kim cobb and wonderful delightful <hes> so impassioned and and just i mean using all of her immense capabilities to to sway folks like us listeners out there and also <hes> the people that are in charge for better or worse <hes> on on the corporate level on the market level and and elected officials and government to take some fucking action so you shouldn't get gets fixed. I guess is the best way to put it exed yep. That's where we are seventy six episodes and that's why i've got it down to one. You should listen to it right now. So think about how much you the idea of snorkeling makes you happy and then listen to this. Go to your happy place and then those ruin it all right. Let's go to the doctor cobb. Let's go to cop our guest. Today is dr kim cobb and together. We're going to discuss save. The corals save the world dr cobb. Welcome thanks for having me. I sure bears cited and appreciative. Thank you <hes> could we. Let's just get started. If you don't mind doctor by telling everybody <hes> who you are and what you do yup so i am a professor in earth net mus feerick sciences at georgia tech and i specialize in climate change specifically how the extremes of of climate change are changing in the ocean with a anthropogenic greenhouse gases and also how the past variations before we i started emitting greenhouse gases <hes> what their statistics were like and basically how that whole climate change phenomenon changing the structure of these extremes so that's my obsession and i work in deep tropics at sites in the middle of the pacific ocean and then deep in the rainforest of borneo and so that keeps me it keeps me going keeps me crazy. That sounds just like our office in studio city california. Yes same thing very yeah. No brian just because dr cobb is here to talk about her. Obsessions doesn't mean you get to talk about yours. That is a different parkas. Okay start if you could not be fantastic. No problem robin different podcast. Hey let's go <hes> <hes> we said it before i started recording but <hes> what we'll do to get this going is <hes> provide some context just for our topic today <hes> with you dr n dig into some <hes> action oriented questions that ca two of the heart of of why hey we should give a shit about it and what you do and what we can all help to to do about support you. That sounds good sounds awesome. Thank you for that. We're happy to they do it. We'll we'll see we gotta bring it home here dr cobb we do like to start with one important question <hes> to set the tone for our conversation here today instead of saying tell l._s. your entire life story. We like to ask a doctor kim cobb. Why are you vital to the survival of the species y._a._r._d. Gave birth to four people so i was on my part. It's not yeah that's already something so <hes> aside from that i would size ponto bution into our our future is a species yeah. I would like to think that i am somebody who is really looking into the future of of climate change impacts and with increasing urgency in in somewhat degree of desperation trying to sound alarm bells get people prepared eared accelerate community action to protect themselves and ultimately yell and scream about reducing emissions so that we don't have to face face the worst effects of climate change so i'm kinda kinda trying to turn the needle here <hes> to the to the other side of the equation and in really bring down these risks for humanity at large so no. I wake up every day thinking about that. I'm not sure how much progress make but i figure it's a worthy goal. I mean yeah. I mean it c- i feel like if there were worthy goal that would be it <hes> and so we we thank you for what you're doing and <hes> i'm curious because because it is such a grounded but ambitious and powerful mission. I'm curious again without getting too much in an industry. 'cause i wanna get into into which working on is there a specific relationship you can point to that was a catalyst <hes> for your endeavors and actions to get you to where you are today to due to make you do what you do will yeah i mean i basically a a classically trained climate scientists and that's where i thought i'd spend the rest of my life while policymakers digested those facts in acted accordingly to to get the kind of policies. We need in place driven been by those data sets. That's what i thought i would thought it'd be right now and instead i find myself in a place where <hes> science is broadly attacked where the facts six of the body of work that i have contributed to our denied on a regular basis by the most powerful people in the world and <hes> this is that's not what i would prefer to be doing but yet this is increasingly what <hes> those of us who are trained in this field are challenged to do which is stand up and defend our work could defend these facts and ellen screen until they enact the kinds of data driven policies that will keep communities safe so that's that's a a where we find ourselves and it spent us two years that i've been challenging myself to <hes> redeploy my skill sets from classical training and climate science to more applied work digging about how i could really help. Communities have different whole variety different scales else <hes> move their needles to protect themselves and help us accelerate our transition to a low-carbon future <hes>. It's not an easy z. process but i feel it is extremely rewarding and it's one that i find a huge community in in <hes> in service to that goal scientists again kind of a massive redeployment here and it's it's fun to be a part of yeah i mean it feels fun a lot of the time a lot of the times it can feel very sad brian and are definitely not classically trained climate scientists because no but <hes> okay. I like i said we don't need to get into it but i and i've spoken about this before. We got a comment once from <hes> itunes review which are across the board five stars. One gentleman gave us three because he said it felt like we you were doing what was called virtue signal inc. Which bryan explained to me is basically saying things for the sake of being seen as saying them. I guess yes or becoming some sort of <hes> like a trying to become known about it in some way. I don't know i'm not explaining it well but my retort to that is is. I think really like you said <hes>. You said you don't totally want to be doing this. Specific part of the job i would love to not have this podcast and to not have to be doing the same sort of a similar version of that which is bringing all of these voices issues to light because we're we're not paying attention on aim because they're already devastating an in so many different ways <hes> i would just would love to not be involved in it in some way and as much as i am enjoying it and learning thanks so much from and being inspired by so many folks out there that are doing it <hes>. It doesn't exactly lift me up a lot of days but anyways okay a little topic for for what we're going to get into today so dr sometime. This is super technical. Sometimes it's not sometimes it's more perspective what we try to do is many of our listeners are are driving on scooters right now so they can exactly wikipedia this stuff themselves. We try to dial down to lowest common denominator for our audience skit or writers scooter exactly who yeah one hundred percent or not wearing helmets by the way oh and the writing on site will it's a nightmare. They're not allowed to ride on the sidewalks. Anyway written very very clear any skater people as a fellow biker so got a shoutout to the scooter folks. We are at the same family. We need to work together by the way them mm-hmm. We couldn't be bigger. We couldn't be bigger cars. Gotta get outta here. I'm like amsterdam's. Let's go. I want boats and bikes. That's it just protect yourself yeah his literally literally the point is what we try to do. Here's meet our listeners where they are so we can get on the same page because people have a hard time acting without real context right so i want to frame this railway. I think i understand and again. Please please do not take this as an insult to your life's work. Why even our listeners. I don't understand the implications of something like coral reef bleaching or corals dying off entirely where the great barrier reef going by by. It's it's not that they can't imagine it right. They can see it. It's twenty nineteen. We i can see a live cam of the great barrier reef right now if i wanted to we can see pictures cheers and we can see timeline bodo photos just like they show the ones of glaciers have melted away. It's kind of the same thing with all the many many many insect species a._b._c.'s we've taken down in a report right of course it's terrible but it's hard to really conceive of one. I guess because people basically don't go out side anymore and two because people even our listeners generally don't understand why insects are important or which ones eat the other ones and why hi and the ocean has it even worse. We read these massively damning reports about how the oceans been turns out saving our asks for one hundred years now absorbing something like please correct me if i'm wrong like ninety percent of the carbon we've been spitting out retaining this heat it would otherwise be in the air but people aren't in the ocean despite so much of humanity living on the coasts around the world and if they were if they understood and appreciated it we wouldn't be dumping so much shit into it or shaking their heads articles like those and then going back to avocado toast coral reefs are incredible and beautiful and manila times nearly alien looking and they're one of the most magnificent features of planet earth so people see them leashed and think that's awful. Maybe we you won't go to the next year but after everything we've talked about on the show and the people we've talked to in hearing from our listeners. I feel like sometimes the primary reason why they're not moving mountains to save coral reefs or don't understand why they're the tip of the sword is got to at least be in part because in so many ways shit is very very bad up here on land right in their face all the time <hes> top down so coral reefs are right down towards the bottom of their list to fix we can't just for instance switched to paper straws to save them and then feel better about ourselves but that's why we're here today so i wanna help folks understand what it means. The coral sir are bleaching and dyeing off what it means when that occurs what the reefs are leading indicators for <hes> keeping in mind everything i just mentioned primarily that again folks it turns out been willing to in the show notes oceans have been our firewall against truly massive climate effects and that firewalls walls now breaking down so i want to dig into the doctor save the girls save the world to get everyone literally on the same page. Let's take this way back to square one doctor cobb. What is a coral reef so a coral reef is really a big pile of <hes> living being organisms as well as past organisms that provide the foundation for the living organisms and these corals are animals at the at the at the coral reefs that we all talk about the surface coral reefs you know these animals are filter feeders and they build these really hard homes. It's <hes> made of calcium carbonate and they have these really cool microscopic plant algae food factories embedded in their tissues symbionese that <hes> provide a huge amount of their energy and this is an organism that has evolved over hundreds of millions of years to its current state in hispanic thin- perpetual facet in feature of our planet earth over that whole time wildly successful surviving mass extinctions and providing adding refuges for fish providing structural protection for coastal communities all across the tropics and of course jaw-dropping beauty beauty for those of us who have had the fortune of of being <hes> in the water with a to witness these incredible macroscopic features. There's of our earth. It's visible from space so these are just such an amazing structure from the microscopic elements <hes> all all the way up to the macroscopic kind of earth scale elements of our planet and everything in between so it's really part of our earth and and part of of our part of who we are as humans well. Everything is connected. I love it yeah. That seems to be a recurring theme. Here is the world breaks down turns out as whoa whoa so i think i mean that's a pretty good description of y. There are quarries there <hes> i'm. I don't know i'm probably wrong about this but from what i understand. Coral reefs are the most biodiversity ecosystems on the planet is is that right even more so than rainforests yes that's true true and that's because of the wealth of microbes that are on the the refund invertebrates that are on the reef all the way up to the <hes> denizens that that we all can see you big fish and sharks <hes> that call the reform as well so <hes> the coral triangle. Oh is an area in the western pacific that is the most biodiverse region and i guess it's home to some millions and millions of species in in a single you know several thousand kilometers square so it's it's extremely impressive is wild yeah it was going to i got a little tidbit from the internet internet so it's probably wrong but i was curious. <hes> despite this quote despite covering less than point one percent of the ocean floor reefs host more than a quarter of all marine fish species in addition to other other marine animals. Is that sound right. Yeah i mean i think it's maybe closer to seventy five percent percent of fish species at some point in their life cycle <hes> can claim a connection to coral reefs of and and with respect to biodiversity very important to recognize the value that they have for drug discovery not something that most people think about but there are hundreds of scientists around the world who prospect exclusively on coral reefs for advanced drugs to treat human cancer cancer and human health rightous and human alzheimer's judging you really trying to look through the chemical inventories of these amazing systems were just begun to scratch the surface of what they could potentially provide to us in instead. We're bleaching good good good so you mentioned that they've been around a long time. How long are we talking here. Are they are are. They like <unk>. Sharks been around since the dyno's before that after that way before that so you know two hundred sixty million years here so talk about dinosaurs going extinct sixty five million years ago right with the big meteorite impact our we're talking way way back in so now you're going wow wow these are systems that survived the extinction that killed the dinosaurs and they did and and these are organisms that survived five the ensuing house world of fifty five million years ago when most of the glaciers melted temperatures were much warmer in syllables much higher her and many of my colleagues looked to that world as an adult for future climate states and yes they survived that too and so they are incredibly resilient elian organisms <hes> over geologic time and this is really an indicator of their success evolutionary in how much they have adapted over geologic time to whether the ins and outs of natural climate variations and of course yet today we are <hes> wiping them off of <hes> some already and increasingly large swaths of global race in the next kendall coming decades and this is already underway. It's it's <hes> ironic and terrible that you know. Dinosaurs were around for you. You know tens of millions if not a hundred plus million years. I can't remember what the exact timeframe is and you know. Homo sapiens is a two hundred thousand years. Something like that and call reefs have survived all that but we're we. We are the things that <hes> are taking them down. Is it's great work. Everybody <hes> our our our our reefs more prevalent in certain parts of the world or the ocean ocean naturally is a warm water cold water deepwater shallow water yeah so generally warm water <hes> but there are some corals that are adapted to deep water environments so they can live down to kilometer into the ocean and there are reports that are adapted to cold water systems that are hanging out you know up in ireland <hes> of the north sea so they're not the state of look the same of course is the corals that <hes> you a dive in hawaii or florida or tahiti but <hes> there many many many different kinds of of corals and so you know that's part of the amazing bajic corals is how many environments you can find them in today really the bulk of the coral reefs lie around the equator and then you need to have land near the surface and we have some very deep oceans covering large person via quarter then so that's not world's bro and so the warmest water and the shallowest seas as as you probably can guess are in the west pacific and that's where we have these true hotspots of coral biodiversity the ad reefs that have evolved over <hes> really tens of thousands of years to be their their current majestic scope and and these are the reese unfortunately unfortunately that rests really closest to the threshold of water temperatures that we're exceeding with large-scale the ocean warming and these unfortunately are going to be the first reefs that are likely to succumb to global warming well colo refunder. One complete done got it. I feel like we should get a badge or something. You shouldn't but court all right okay so doctor. Let's let's talk about a bleaching. I mean you know just what is that. Why is that happening. <unk> with that yeah so coral bleaching is something thing that <hes> corals have adapted to survive very short lived ocean warming events so how short-lived maybe two three four months the kinds of temperature spikes that occurred over geologic time and this is a response aunts that enables them to go into a completely dormant state and <hes> really avoid the damage of having they're all goal photo symbionese that are embedded in their tissues producing too many oxygen free radicals and in damaging the coral tissue instead of providing a net benefit through food production. They are providing a net harm. When ocean temperatures get too warm in so literally the coral expels dell's these colorful algal photo symbionese from tissues and which leaves a completely white. It's colorless organism awesome without its algal symbionese inside of it and it also is missing that energy source in in the form of <hes> sugars from put a synthesis in so it goes into a state of absolute dormancy in when i say absolute i mean absolute it doesn't build a skeleton it ceases as is all metabolic function and it goes into this kind of sleep state and it's waiting for ocean temperatures to get cool enough to <hes> be re colonized colonized by photosynthesis fans resume. It's it's normal operations and unfortunately if this does not occur in a very short amount of time the coral will starve to death in that's how you go from a healthy coral to bleach zero and then if the ocean temperatures remain to warm <hes> the the coal color colony will die and it can't come back soon ship to start from scratch and so that's what we're seeing across these reefs with ocean warming so quick question there you said they'll they'll go dormant <hes> for and remain that way for a short period of time helping the <hes> temperatures will drop <hes> obviously you're are basically wonder woman in work in geological timescales <hes> as opposed to brian. I what does a short amount of time mean. Did you say it was a couple of months is are. Are we talking months years. Oh we oh my goodness. We are talking months. We're not so sure i mean literally the coral may be drying on reserve <hes> food stores or fat in its organism to try to lend through that period of dormancy and remain alive but i thought if water temperatures don't come back down in a matter of months and it will die and so as coral reef scientists we monitor the <hes> magnitude magnitude of the warming event that are given refocus experiencing as well as the duration into it's really a function of magnitude and the duration so the warmer the events <unk> than the shorter the duration at the coral will have a four it goes into a more acute stage starvation and the cooler you're the event and but it can be <unk> longer than the coral had a better chance and so there that is because there are stages of bleaching so a coral will <hes> maybe a partially bleach not fully bleach fully bleached perfectly white coral really just has a matter of a month or two if if that before it's going to tip into <hes> coral death at so when we go out in these reefs that are experiencing acute warming <hes> we see a whole rainbow of different scales of bleaching from corals that look perfectly fine and then right next to it will be a coral that is bleached one hundred percent and then right next to that will be a dead coral and this just reflects the diversity that we have on these reefs in the different species have different resistance levels and it's not until you get to the events that are super extreme that you're gonna start wiping out most of those corals all the way through most species all the way through most of the size classes etc. It takes salat <unk> yet. That is what we're seeing in these last several years she when did we. I noticed that you know that this was happening. The coral reefs were under threat and wended you know the <hes> ocean science community as a whole start going oh we there's a series well corals. Those were always projected to be no the canarian nicole mine for ocean warming because they sit so close to <hes> the bleaching threshold and and you know it's something that they have developed naturally and they have to be adaptive because they sit at these really really warm waters and you know whether happens in the ocean to <hes> but yet it was really in nineteen ninety seven nineteen ninety eight that we had the first global scale coral bleaching mortality event associated with what was at the time the largest el nino event on record so this is a natural ocean event. It lasts for six to nine months. It's born in the tropical pacific that it can spread very quickly to adjoining basins in the indian ocean atlantic it brings water temperatures that can be in excess of you know oh ten degrees fahrenheit warmer than average for months on end and so that really wiped out a very large number of reefs across the indian meaning pacific oceans in particular and it was the first event that was surveyed even at some of the more remote sites in real time by korea scientists because it's an event that we saw coming through our climate prediction capabilities and people were able to mobilize and so we had the first comprehensive surveys and it was very very alarming to see that but at that point we still didn't know what the pace of ocean warming would be over the next several decades so now of course we have the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen media event as the new record breaking el nino event occurring on even warmer ocean baseline much more destruction in that event and of course we're just waiting for the next year to drop with the next el nino event and it's <hes> it's a it's taken you know hundreds and hundreds of people many many many months of their lives to go out and collect these kinds of date that help us see the sheer magnitude of the threat to modern day race and what we've already lost well so all i just thinking about this the way headlines rephrased sometimes in the way that moves into mainstream conversation and they can see how people say things like boy. The oceans are warming and owed. Did you see that the coral reefs are getting bleached to went when probably the more correct understanding being in translation is <hes> korea sir <hes> going through all these different stages of of bleaching and some of them are are starting to die which means i you know severe ocean. Warming is right around the corner. Does that make more sense as as you mentioned there as the canary in the coal mines of yeah. I mean the the the real the real story yeah i mean i think the real story is that oceans are already warming. Dramatically in corals are already dying period and it's gonna get worse so that that's really the bottom line from our perspective as <unk> scientists and coral scientists this this train is already well under way to end it so it's a serious wakeup call about how vulnerable ecosystems arbit- also how how vulnerable we are starting to lose a major piece of function of our earth system and we don't even know really what that's going to do to be honest with you but it's not going to be pretty yeah. I've never been my therapist. Can you can tell you never been a huge fan of of the things. I don't know of being scared of the things things. I don't know the that is <hes>. That's the dark place for me so all of that considered dr do and i know you've testified testified to congress and things like that. Do you ever still find it difficult to make your case in the grand scheme of shit. We need effects like right now. That does that make sense <hes> <hes> it just seems like every day. Folks are inundated by contribute to this do this. This is on fire. This is not on fire. This is underwater this and this where where'd you find the most success and i guess also where do you find the largest. Frustrations can consistently well. I mean i find the most success and hope in reminding myself that not everybody has to care about the same thing and not everybody's going to care about the fact that coral reefs are dying today. Some people will care passionately enough that it's going to get them out of their chair and get them off of their computer into the street and make them pick up that phone in in call their elected official but it's not gonna work for everybody in so i just remember that in realized that it takes a communicating being in a very diverse <hes> way with very diverse people and it's gonna take very diverse voices with different stories to tell. I'm only one of hundreds of stories that we tell about climate change. I happen to care a lot about the ocean. I happen to share that love with many of my. I fellow humans on this planet and so it for me. It's a big motivating factor but i think when we get down to talking to folks who would prioritize as a human lives or economy <hes> <unk> over something as remote as tropical pacific coral reef. I get that and i i need to be ready with those talking points <hes> just as forcefully and passionately as i can speak that a coral reef in the middle of the pacific ocean so it's not a one-size-fits-all equation in can't get upset by the fact that everybody has moved to the highest level of action by dying race. I get shot. I didn't work. That's why we need multiple voices and mobile perspectives. I think that's so nuanced and helpful which is not waking up and going like why can't i get the entire world to give a. I should've coral reefs. It's almost like yeah picking your spots and understanding that there's there is this avalanche of things happening but if you can if you can find the right people <hes> those those people can can hopefully make a big difference so hopefully that some of the folks out there listening because it is it is a tremendous thing to see these things in real life and that it is truly a jarring and damning to to then see a dorm enter dying <hes> and thank this. Something must not be good here. There's this cannot be right. Hey brian. How are you enjoying our experience with anchor are a new publishing platform and it has been such a nice improvement. It's <hes> it's the future like the first time i could order pizza from my phone. Remember life should just be this. Way feels like this is the future we were promised. Exactly anchor has been at the light. It's free. It's easy as hell <hes>. It's everything you need to make a podcast new or an existing one like ours moved right over so easy and it's all in one place you can record and edit. They'll distribute distribute your podcast everywhere spotify apple podcast google. I mean all the all the places right yeah and great news. You can make money from your podcasts yeah. That's a revelation to revelation. That's really nice so get out their kids download the anchor app on whatever device he got and or go to anchor dot f._m. To get get started so we talked a little about you hinted at this earlier. Let's talk about all the sectors doctors that disappearing coral reefs are impacting because it's not just you know the the biodiversity of of the local ecosystem itself. It's i believe you mentioned tourism. There's substance issues and i believe in and please educate me on this <hes> corres- provide some flood protection as well in some in some ways. I guess tourism i. I mean you mentioned so many of these. Corals are in tropical areas places where economies are heavily driven by tourism autism and diving in and things like that. Are we already seeing repercussions in those areas well. I think that you know you hear so many competing being narratives coming out of australia right now that has such a major portion their economy tied to tourism on the great barrier reef and you have have a elected government that <hes> would like to trumpet a story of resilience and recovery <hes> from the latest rounds bleaching mortality and pitting directly again evidence from the scientific community that this is a train wreck. That's already underway and a couple sun shades and a couple million dollars is not gonna cut it. You have to reduce emissions yesterday last decade and so you really do see this planning out and <hes> the death rows of <hes> those people with deep vested interests tied to the maintenance eight months of the fossil fuel industry and <hes> those moneyed interests really telling story that is completely false from a scientific typic- perspective but on the other hand you have communities like those in florida that are deeply tied culturally and economically comically as well to the coral reefs much closer to home of course here and they spend engaged in in decades of trying to do whatever whatever they can to apply scientific methods and conservation efforts to <hes> help their coral reefs <hes> get through some of this and some some of their repeated hits that those recip- taken so <hes> i do believe we're already seeing dan wide-scale damages from <hes> ocean warming and associated disease and degradation and i think that that's pretty clear it sites like hawaii i think that's pretty clear florida <hes> insights at the great barrier reef and it's just a matter of really how we can disentangle the economic data of what it might have been like if these briefs said than as resplendent as they were ten or twenty years ago in what's going on right now given all the other <hes> economic <hes> hits that that communities are taking thing for one reason or another but this is clearly going in a bad direction for this communities in in many of them are waking up to this reality and trying to do something about in the lobby their electric officials sure i think back to <hes> without getting political here when when obama did <hes> you know follow through on a lot of the bailouts of the economy back in two thousand nine and one of the numbers <hes> they always talked about was jobs saved and how it was a huge number. We're but jobs saved isn't as impactful as you know. Jobs lost a number of people who lost their healthcare or things like that and like i think about utah <music> disentangling the economic front which is like we. I wish it were easier to say it to to paint a more specific nuanced picture of like look if the research dying. This is what your tourism numbers look like but that's. I imagine that that's a difficult task. I don't be that yeah i mean i think you know we have these large scale. Economic models does that help us understand the economic damages from climate change and there are so many deep vulnerabilities vulnerabilities across our economy with respect to climate change of course most notably seat will rise in the trillions of dollars of infrastructure. We have along the coast here here. In the united states let alone the global economy <hes> things like a critical infrastructure for food production and vulnerabilities to crops <hes> these are all things that we see playing out right now as well and so i think for those portions the economy that are tied to coral reefs in the united states very small number the australian. It's a very very large numbers. Some of these conversations we can look to australia and the vulnerability that they face that are so acutely tied tied to climate change. We're talking about massive wildfires really damaging floods and the loss of their reefs. They're really on the leading edge and so we can see these pitted narratives taking place in a way that they will continue to evolve in this country three but they're really facing very very near term. Profound economic threats from climate change down under so talk to me about substance. I guess for lack of a better word of the edible marine species the ones the ones that are consumed farmed fish around the world which species are being most affected by this by the ecosystem <hes> the the bulk of their ecosystem dying where is being affected the most i guess where are they going and and then i guess how is that affecting those local economies that depend on that for their own food but also for <hes> the local economies and let me know of none of that makes yeah that makes sense but there's a lot going on there as your question implies darker there yeah there there are there are you know hundreds of millions of people who depend on coral reefs and the fish that that are living on those rates for their primary source of routine and so this is really a food security issue that we're facing we talk about degrading reefs at the same time many of these reefs in associated we we fish are under heavy overfishing pressures and other kinds of environmental threats related to a coastal development ed's and unsustainable practices in these <hes> subsistence communities that it's kind of you know just every man and woman for themselves and and <hes> very little regulation d corruption <hes> berry little protection for the <unk> providing so much bounty and so this is just. Is there a compound climate. Change is one of many threats that these communities face that are so dependent on the race. Which is you know such a <hes> kind of devastating devastating prospect that we'll have these <hes> very large and in very poor communities that are going to be <hes> under coming their immediate food security threat from from the loss of of coral reefs the whole question of whether <hes> in how fish species respond bond to <hes> significantly degraded reefs as one is an area very very active research and so you know it my research site in it'll the tropical go pacific island christmas island we witness the destruction of eighty five percents of the coral reef in two thousand sixteen related due to the macedonian you event that really sucked the world and in threatened so many reefs across the world so we lost eighty five percent of the coral reef over six months and so the fish the reaction of the fish communities to that disturbed is a very important study in its significantly lagged act from when we lost the reef because you know they're fish that rely on the coral tissue for food. There are fish that rely on the corals for their nurseries. There are fish that rely rely on the tiny microbes that live in the coral. I mean it's a it's a whole cascade of facts that takes years to fully see in witness us as fish are very large they lived for many years and so those will be some of the ones that we may see impacted with wyatt highest lag but <unk> unfortunately we have seen <hes> big hits to the fishing populations at christmas island after this event we continue to study those in a partnership with <hes> coral ecologists in marine conservation biologists that is not my work by the way he's amazing scientists at a university victoria <hes> julia bomb leading those efforts if folks are interested in looking her up. I think she's down the island right now as she sends me videos baby corals and my day should have around the cast i turn we'll do one of those underwater mazing. So is that a thing where you gotta go the <hes> the <hes> the california science center in los angeles. They've got this great little feature in their aquarium in there. It's not the world's biggest crime. It's beautiful but eleven o'clock every day. The diver who feed the fish will go down the aquarium has is this big two story window and the diver will go down and all the kids in the museum are rallied and they can the diver has a microphone underwater <hes> in answer the answer the kids questions from underwater and kids are just like holy shit like how it's a cool thing in the world so we'll have to do podcast brian. We'll strap you in there with the sharks. It'll be great right yeah. I was gonna say. Can i go in sure <hes> xtracab so moving chords action <hes> what our governments and ngos <unk> an such doing to support the coral reefs directly. We know uh the u._s. Federal government isn't doing much with our places like australia and and and i guess more the tropical locations doing again knowing that we can't just the terrible examples switch to paper straws <hes> what's going on. If anything right well i do think that there are there many trend longstanding trends afoot that are really important to set aside large swath of coral reefs in protect protect them from the other kinds of threats that so many tropical reefs face and hope that they can provide refuge for quarrels goals that may be able to make it through these next decades of acute temperature stress and ocean acidification which is something we didn't talk about but which is also ah <unk> berry major threat to <hes> continued prosperity briefs under more acidic conditions corals have a hard time growing their skeletons and and so we really have that approach of of sequestering some reefs and hoping that this will enhance the resilience of this precious precious ecosystem in in provide seeds for future reefs. I think that's a great approach and that's important you see that happening. Across the tropics regulation force the is critical. If there's regulation forcement you might as well not have that marine protected area in place but what is becoming increasingly apparent is reefs no reef protected or not can escape the large scale train wreck that is ocean warming right now and addition addition of ocean certification in coming decades so it doesn't matter how protected you are if you lose ninety percent of your our of your corals in that system over a year of acute ocean warming and so what has become the rallying cry of the coral community those of us who have witnessed this who understand the problem who understand the projections is that we must absolutely move to reduce emissions now very very aggressively to give corals the best best chance of making it through the coming decades and there will be no bandit and there will be no magic wand to wave to reverse this this trend and protect reefs that are economically critical ecologically critical and just you know an intrinsic part of what we call earth earth <hes> if we don't reduce emissions urgently now and so that's that's really become the <hes> rallying cry of a coral scientific community and something that you won't hear out of the politicians out who say that they're developed a new ten million dollar fund for great barrier reef protection <hes> without mentioning emissions reductions. We're going to try to hold them to the signs in the facts that that really motivate <hes> this <hes> dramatic urgent reduction greenhouse gases when we say things like hold them to hold them to these numbers and science in fact sometimes i really do just wanna go like pure vigilante batman and actually like hold them to it like p like just chain them to something for example. It's just because the current something yeah staple at nail gun. Whatever we gotta do bryan's down for really and i just wanted to double check. There definitely is no magic wand no. There's not now right now. Some of the work that i'm really kind of yeah i mean some of the work i'm really excited about which is still kind of scifi is the idea that we might be able to genetically engineer heat resistant quarrels that can help reseed devastated reefs with these resistant organisms and provide the reefs of the next century from resistant breeding stocks like you know you breathe breathe up price poodle. You could read price corliss. All i guess and this work is actively underway and critically important very very expensive tough stuff. It's not easy to grow corals much easier to grow a poodle. Trust me and so what you wanna do is is support research efforts that are really forward-looking. They may not be able to deliver that promise today but if we don't invest in those approaches science driven approaches research and approaches today we won't have them in fifty fifty years right <unk> exams. Also there's no yeah there's yeah we have to rub our head and chew gum at the same time we we are just going to have to who aggressively reduce emissions to give them the best chance and then because we know we have a a train wreck in front of us anyway <hes> it really we is important to continue invest in the best science to inform dissolutions that <hes> we hope we don't have to turn to as aggressively <music> <hes> as as they say in the worst case scenarios we really want to be able to help corals lived through this century as best we can and we need all those tools deployed not just the ones that are undergoing research in these tank experiments in the breeding of price corals but also those folks who are out there diving on devastated reese today trying to understand how fish populations are responding to the train wrecks that have already occurred. We have these natural laboratories crystal ball aw to help us understand what we're facing in an ocean that is so prostate on the altered like these ecosystems are command intimately we can use these kind of degrade environments as laboratories for studying magic ones tomorrow right we understand what works what it doesn't work and so these are these are very precious opportunities but we need to really deploy the full arsenal of science and engineering <hes> to try to to really help coral skip through the senate communities that depend on frankly the full function of our ocean and our earth sounds sounds pretty fucking good to me that makes us <hes> towards action like you were saying we need to invest in these things which is brian's favorite part of the show it is <hes> i've i mentioned it briefly at the very start <hes> that look you know our goal here is to provide you know severi specific action steps that our listeners can <hes> take to support for you <hes> and your mission and we like to break it down into three categories <hes> voice vote and and dollar so let's get into that <hes> and i'll start with their voice what what are actionable specific questions that we can all be asking of <hes> our representatives to to support you so the most. It's important thing we need to do right now is to reduce emissions dramatically askale across the entire economy and most efficient way to do that is to enact a price on carbon and there's it's very clear that's the that's when you know we're actually getting serious about reducing greenhouse in house gas emissions and there's a bill on the floor of the house right now called the energy innovation act which does just that it puts a price on carbon and it's not in the form of tax it is something that comes back to every american in the form of a check and it's therefore called a revenue neutral carbon tax it is the main goal of a group called the citizens climate lobby so if you really want to get engaged you can fix many many many problems at change with a price on carbon and there's a local chapter near you i guarantee it citizens climate lobby and that's their they have a laser focus on this and they've had it for quite a few years and they finally have a bill actually has words in it to put a price on carbon. Now we need more republicans to support the idea of <unk> on carbon sean. They talk about the free market as a solution to almost everything well. Let's let the free market decide how to quickly cle- reduce emissions and win economically at the same time in there are many ways to do that and the market can really find those ways if we have a price on carbon and so that's what we need we need folks to really step up and call their elected officials and ask them to support in sponsor this this bill that's floating around and if they don't like that one challenge then to say okay well. How do you want to put a price on carbon is that's what needs to happen here. We we need a federal price on carbon <hes> you can also point to successful policy labs in the northeastern u. S. in california where carbon markets have ben in place in the world didn't end so i'd point people to look at those <hes> those states and how they fared and they've fared very well and so we want want to win the low-carbon race of the twenty first century as a country. We don't want to be left behind economically and <hes> really <hes> left left outside of the the biggest trend of the century so that's what i would ask people to do. That is the most important thing it a thing i would ask them to do is to think about how they're going to get the energy to sustain their engagement for this decades long battle that we will be waging king and i. I actually mean that quite seriously because it's very overwhelming this is a intergenerational relay race as i call all it i just wanted to run as far as fast as i can to hand off the baton to the next generation and they're going to have to run as far as fast as they can etc etc etc and so it's it's overwhelming and in the face of overt climate denial of facts and science in the face ace of a cascade of impacts that are raining down upon us <hes> in incredible crescendo. It's it's becomes the question russian. That's really important. How do you derive energy to stay engaged and with that. I would say sometimes it feels like giving minded to democratic candidates in the bottomless pit of fundraising is not energizing. I would say sometimes making phone calls to your policymaker policymaker. That doesn't really care to doesn't seem like it's getting anywhere. How do you personally sustain in engagement and this is a personal final answer. I will tell you for me. It involves deep engagement in my local city governance structures where i can see a connection directly requiem between my actions and results on the ground and how that chain that value chain goes from me to my city to my state to to the federal government. I see that more clearly. When i mean gauged local community i'm also become completely carbon obsessed which is not saving the eh right. I'm not really saving the planet with my solar panels biking to work and turning diet and composting cetera but it allows me to i feel more aligned with my life's goals in the values i care about and it gives me great energy to keep making those phone call to elected officials to keep showing up for hearings about the utilities send it in it makes me writing more checks to those democratic candidates. I see how it all adds up. I feel i feel rewarded every single day. When <hes> when i look at my solar panels and i i love biking to work and i love my new bike family of crazy crazy advocates <hes> who are an n._f. Writing for bike lanes across the entire city. This is where we find community. This is where we see connections between between each other. This is where we build resilience. This is where we build in derive energy for this fight so that's the second thing i would say. Ask yourself. How are you you're going to get the energy to continue in this battle in the face of all this devastation and second of all keep your eyes on the big prize. Let's fight for a price on carbon at any scale that we can but let's not leave the federal government out because we cannot afford it. I love every a bit of that and and and couldn't agree more. There's this big discussion among climbing clean energy nerds about you know. Does it matter if you're taking personal steps should be fighting the utilities ladies and for carbon price and all this and it's like will you can fucking do both and also i mean at least me personally what i've noticed on the grassroots level and among communities both hyper local and local or down my street or or bigger in i live in brandon. I live in a county. That's comprised of eighty-eight cities. It's bigger than forty states <hes> but when when when people personally invested they're probably going to be more likely to hold the people in power to task because they feel like they're. They are doing their part. Even though it's not gonna move the needle like you said you're not saving the world with your solar panels right but you feel like you're making a fucking difference and it makes you more likely to stand up to these people and say hey man member when you got elected by the people all of whom now are fighting for bike lanes and solar panels like do your part do your one job one yeah and i just think people are looking for a way to to make a difference and even if that difference is just in in your family or just in your workplace. It really adds up and the other thing i would say. Is that the deeper. I engage in obsessions about carbon which i've gone really ali down the more i see that there's so much low hanging fruit that that sits between my family my house you know in be personally and you know my workplace. Georgia tech is a small city right and i am a i'm a faculty member there. I have a unique voice and you know we could start moving that city down the road to a low-carbon future in every employee of a major organization could start to think about about that as well and so this this completely false battle between individual and collective action. <hes> i think is just so damaging. It doesn't allow us to see that. It's it's not just me or or my utility. It's it's every institution that sits between that. We need to come with us <music>. We all have access levers on that spectrum myself to to the monopoly utility georgia onto the state house to to d._c. We need to reach for those and we need to drive energy and we need to pump it up the value chain in point point down the value chain kane and say hey i. This is what i'm happy about today and this is what i'm getting for tomorrow at this is my process in it's my road and it doesn't need to look like yours. It look very eight. That's fine. That's fine bedroom in judging each other. There's no one-size-fits-all <hes> do what you can stay in the fight. Build community lift each other up. Celebrate diverse approaches invoices. Is it really so hard sounds so hard today and yet and yet got twitter and yet discussion double bottle as a bird before we get into that one exactly awesome <hes> <hes> <hes> doctor. It's been so awesome. It's that we've had for an hour here and we'll <hes> we'll let you go because we know that you've got many other things to do but seriously thank thank you so so much for your time today should we have we have just one more a little segment that we like to call not a lightning round. <hes> and we just have <hes> just some questions for you just a quick little questions <hes> doctor. When was the first time in your life when you realized you had the power of change or the the power to do something meaningful. Oh my goodness. I think it was in college. When i realized that i would make a terrible doctor and the planet was dying and and that you know i might have a role and the earliest generation of scientists who are waking up this reality in what a life that would be that would certainly consume my brain in my heart for the rest of my life and that was why i changed environmental science from premed. Oh wow the decision. That was deductor route did you were you interested in being. I don't know i think that was part of the <unk> a mechanism ah i don't know i really like people that much <hes> rate coral right out rainforest yeah it could be worse. <hes> we just gotta make sure they don't go away then. You got to be a doctor again. <hes> a doctor cobb who who was someone in your life that has positively impacted your work in the past six months or six months wants bidders so many people i will say yeah so i will say somebody like greta phone berg we would be one of the most obvious obvious answers but she's just representative of a whole cohort of folks that have brought new meaning to my were and moved the conversation in the important dialogues and discussions outside of the walls of science where there is protected these are these are the voices we and listen over there and i know there's a whole group of powerful stakeholders who are just as passionate as if not more on out there fighting for the same outcomes in using very different language coming from very different voices so that's just one of many voices just in the last six months that have brought just incredibly new lines of thought for me stimulating lines of thought and in bernudo purpose and passion so i am so grateful for other people who have joined. This battle dedicated their lives to this battle. We need a lot more so sped there really any number of ways to to stand to love love it jim. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed. What's your self care. What's your kim the welsh lately lately i have been absolutely assessed with the output on my solar panels. I had an app ooh out for that turns out for that and i go on my app and i checked my production for the day and i check my carbon neutrality. How close i am i think about how i could further tightened my belt to achieve carbon positive living instead of dry drying out vendor reducing carbon actively rather than just not consuming it but i probably check that app <hes> probably about twenty times a day <hes> days and not by i'm probably like on five times a day and away from home element and so you know kind of i'd like to see my tonsils insight. I see them on my butt on my good days. I go through the whole day. Oh my god. I didn't even check my panel today. What a great day. That's what i do lately just because i got turned onto the last month but before that in everyday biking to work has been the the single most important component of my mental health routine and so when i get on my bike every day like now when i'm away i in my bones i feel it in my brain and it just throws me off back to a place that was one of passivity of acute acute overwhelm and sense of isolation and and so when i get on my bike i see people in the park. I pass bikers. There's i remind myself what i'm fighting for with the city government. Remind myself that it all adds up. I remind myself that i'm it every single day and not has become just so important for me. So that's why i say. It doesn't really matter what the carbon is there. It's just about what energy you derive from your choices and how they add up for you and keep you in the game and so that's my answer to that question two days days. I don't run are the ones where i feel like jack nicholson in the shining. I'm just like bye-bye crazy gonna last one last one. If you could amazon prime one book to donald trump what would it be. Oh my god he will allow range of books <music>. I would say nyamira russkies merchants of doubt because the that was when i really was forced just open my eyes to the debts and persistence and just sheer inertia of e climate denial machinery and how it hasn't filled traded our government how it is tied genetically to the <hes> tobacco law is and best interests in battles at the nineteen sixties and seventies. Sometimes the same people involved so those kinds of the facts are so impactful. I think it's helpful to see the full extent of what we're up against and how you think that you are amazing your personal opinions to not believe in climate change or that we have a problem but in reality you are victim of a well orchestrated campaign to keep this out of the public dialogue and to bury facts evidence and smear scientists hugh are victim to that so that's the book i would amazon prime to him and i would i would love to read it to him and then follow up discussion with him because i believe in having new conversations once facts and in truth on the table incredible even him that's so good of you also beyond absolutely louis any day. I baked her. I'm famous for inviting any conversation with donald trump any day. He wants to call me. He knows where to find me. I i would really enjoy that conversation so you could be great. Thank you for the bad. I'll let you guys know you exclusive. I'll give exclusive. You're swell dr cobb man. We can't thank you enough for obviously taking the time i come here for locking your children and your dog out of the house and <hes> and obviously all that you're doing for the corals for the oceans for for everyone affected <hes> that includes all of us. This is one of those things it's again. I i don't not necessarily it's easy to understand it but i i get why sometimes people were like oh girls do bad but <hes> it's it's not great and <hes> <hes> and it's a good indicator that we need to be doubling tripling rippling taxing hundred xing our efforts here so thank you so much too. It's not too great but it's not too late so let's leave on that little little rining a couple there and i also want to thank you for all the work that you do in bringing these issues to the fore four and have been these conversations <hes> it's just so important that people find any number of different avenues information that they might care about so thank you due for allowing folks to to see things in a new way from a different perspective on the quite literally the least we do <hes> thank you so much <hes> enjoy wojciech sunny massachusetts and we will follow up to you soon. Thanks so much dr thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking tall all walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder. Please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the internet you can find us on twitter at important not imp just so weird also on facebook and instagram at important not important pinterest and tumbler the same thing so check us out follow us share us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show. Wherever are you listen to things like this and if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts keep the lights on thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player player and at our website important not important dot com thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our gym and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly accordingly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank i've <music>.

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#45: Poop Vs. Cancer

Important, Not Important

48:03 min | 2 years ago

#45: Poop Vs. Cancer

"Welcome to important, not important. My name is Quinn. And I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy, and this is teddy Ted. Yup. Today's topic. It's the showdown everyone's been waiting all been waiting for. Everybody's all all I was gonna say all season on fucking sees is this should never stops the showdown the Throwdown. Are you ready to rumble, ladies and gentlemen? It's poop versus cancer pretty exciting. The cage match no-holds-barred no-holds-barred, our guest is Dr Dicker Davar. He is a professor of medicine at the university of Pittsburgh and a medical oncologist and hematologist specializes in the miniature of advanced melanoma and the development of early phase studies to test novel immuno therapeutic approaches to treat advanced cancers. What Quinn said bang? Oh, yeah. He's he's doing. He's doing some. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Right. Again, I feel very lucky 'cause we talked to a lot of folks who are just so above and beyond smart, but not just above and beyond smart. But like applying themselves in this way, where you wanna go. What do I have to do to give you the tools to do your thing? Right. Like lease just keep doing that. I'll do anything. How do we divert just like aircraft carrier money and resources to to that thing? Because it's just like what I always think these questions of knowing the sciences, incredibly difficult and the. No offense things people they will fail, and then they'll just pick up and try something else because that's how science works. But also like what what if he does it. What if you you know, what if it succeeds, and that's just the mind blowing? I mean, it will at some point he or somebody on his team or somebody who will be on that team in the future. You know, everything seems real crazy. And then one day it happens. That's pretty awesome. It's bad. It was very very cool to listen to this man talk because it like it's this like enthusiasm in you going when you're thinking about what they're doing that like holy shit one day on they maybe we can just there won't be cancer. Holy shit and beat talk to Dr VAR. Arcus today is Dr Davar Davar and together we're going to find out what your gut has to do with cancer treatments. A doctor Davar welcome. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. We're very excited to have you in the talk about this. Let's start just by letting us know who you are. And what you do. Sure. So I made medical causes. I primarily patients when melanoma do that university of which is you know, unsurprisingly is deleted. That's. You don't say and school practice involves feeding patients of advanced answer. Giving them a variety of different feet analysis entered round immunotherapy along with that. And scope of my research kills Leslie drunk development. So testing new molecules on humanity bodies on drug companies invasions. And aspect of what I do is evaluate generation in you check on. So this is things that work even after the frontline drugs. Don't work drugs all the stuff that people just want an about price off develop. And I think that we do is we look at which I think is the topic of the psalms. We should look at the role of microbiome specifically desperately provide them in mediating sponsons to immune therapy. And we try and see whether by modulated that microbiome whether we can actually affect responses even when. Traditionally therapies, Bamanga work. Fascinating. It really is wild. I can't wait to dig into that. All right. So a doctor basically what we like to do with these podcasts is talk about something that we think is very important that we think our listeners want to be engaged with and want to help do something about. So we're going to, you know, set up a little context and sort of figure out what specifically we can do to help you along and help everybody who's trying to kill cancer a along with some specific action steps if that sounds good. Awesome. So doctor we usually start with one important kind of fun question. Instead of saying tell us your whole life story we like to ask Dr why are you vital to the survival of the species? That's a that's a tough question. Visiting depending on who you off might AVI that I'm not at final despite sherbert. I want to I want you to be bold be honest with us have some fun. So I think. It's just it's a group. It's not you know, it's not just as an individual. But I'll I think we Austin some very important questions and very few people Austin's question. So I think what I think we're doing is very not only an important question will also asking during for context very important time because we now have, you know, very fuss time history treaty me not actually intake answer vomited put intermission. And it's it's kind of a credible. We inner for people to say that all the people not surprised even as recently as five six years ago that would no treatments that could put advanced cancer into remission, and it wasn't really until relatively recently. You know that we've had successful. Immunotherapy? And it's also what do both at one meets successful. Immunotherapy as we being attitude answers. Immunotherapy? As long as feeding cats. Sure. And what we now have successfully Munin therapy. Meaning they isn't drought. The mostly available drugs in several different companies now, but drugs that are commercially available that you can get any cancer center in the country, and it's not just this conference in any other countries. Well, and which whether you in on Alabama on you can get this drug and this job if you have a sentence inside against it looks narrowly well and put the cans in remission, but as tremendous financial cost of these drugs this also actually side effects because even though the drugs, Joe, cancel beacon ads produce very very serious long side effects overall speaking, they couldn't it's fun reason why, you know, this is the first Nobel prize that has actually been awarded for treatment. That is I keep directly proves the lives of base every price history medicine every other Nobel prize for medicine in water for scientific at bounce to. It's never been an about price a warden for a scientific advance is actually melted in the and that's that's something can be science each skarupa. But as huge huge. I mean, these guys JoAnn, Jim Allison. You know, help discover drug Bosley that belted Madryn is genetic yet she discovered drug books in one hundred to help develop at actually don't cure cancer. So now, we are left with two things, you know. So if people walk in you've Cassatt affects financial toxicities, but more importantly, what at least what we do we focused on why the drudge dodo and what we've now discovered. Many reasons why he's drugs don't work. But one reason is to be composition of the decimal that victory, right? And that's the that's what I want to dig into day because I feel like, you know, kind of migrating into our into our context here, you know, Americans at the very least have been bombarded in the past ten years with, you know, eat this yogurt takes us because it gives you program addicts. And now there's prebiotics and this is how the gut works and at the same time. We're finding out that the gut is a very, very, very complicated and confusing place. And that is to say, I feel like people thought, oh, we we ever should figured out a little bit, no pun intended. I'm but. What what we're finding out. Now is how much we don't know about the God about the microbiome in and how different each of ours is from one another how they're built how they're affected by our genetic spire environments by anti-biotics by again over marketed yogurt and and further by cancer treatments and how they in turn affect cancer. I it feels like we're at the tip of the iceberg with that stuff. But at the same time like you said it's interesting because now we can start to really start to actually say, we'll we'll we'll wait. Maybe these things are affecting other. Maybe this isn't just not working for some reason. Maybe we know enough about it to get started. Just I guess just the backup for folks again. Your your gut isn't your just your stomach. It's it's your mouth through yourself against your stomach your intestines, and it's filled with trillions of of micro-organisms more more bacteria than you'd ever believe. I think they say it's like thirteen fourteen pounds of bacteria in most of its good, and they help nutrients, and they protect against pathogens, and they run your immune system. When they're out of whack you. You get a whole load of issues. But the question for today is, you know, how does cancer and cancer treatment relate to the gut, of course, some microbes promote promote so proliferation, which is great are which is not great for cancer some protect against cancer, which is great cancer. Of course, also isn't one disease. So again, this whole thing is very complicated. And then like you said immunotherapy is working for some patients in an incredible way. In some not at all. And the question is could those success rates with improving them or where they are now come down to interaction with the gut? So so Dr Who could take a step back? I'd actually love to hear how how you came into this specific perspective this adventure. I it sounds like it's more from the cancer side than the gut side. What was your path to start take on this challenge? I guess it's important to acknowledge that you know, in in science, nobody of you know, at least in biology, nobody actually makes up on being because of that. This is something as important. It's always, you know, insights what other people have done expand Abedin setting and sentenced dates, right? And so the context of these one debuted with their think people began to ask this question is do we know that seventy meet active? I got I quit will come that. Microbial composition exists immune affects stomach immunotherapy onto cancel is. That affected by got on my opposition got Michael system. And so would these two seminal papers published but two years ago? And it's what ball, you know, thinking of these to the us be was by the Ron division and the wrong zoology in two thousand sixteen what they were doing this. They were collecting stool samples from patients. All right. Who would receiving immune therapy? Okay. And but they showed was that be immunotherapy up yet effect of immunotherapy advice yet to be affected by a the use of antibiotics and be did not have any acted mice. That will go to jump for citizens. Meaning when you grow a mouse in a job fever city. Most doesn't happen needed Alaniz ation by by. All right. And so when when mice retreated antibiotics Rona, if senators they did not respond to to to new therapy. Not not at all not in the context model not at all, right? Fascinating. You know, it's fairly easy to get mice to eat shit. So when you reconstitute the anti bacterial system by you know, essentially oral garage with a picnic area, you could reconstitute immune response pretty model. Right. You you have no response to the need. Therapy. In the control model. Right. And then the nemesis that you actually find teeth. Maybe better. You've you reconstitute unique got decimal system by either data three different controls for the the major one is that I by oral garage with bacteria response was reconstituted. So that Katy suggested at the lake we'd be intestinal microbial composition and the effect Cleese of this anti-cancer unit therapy this context detailing phone, locking, and what was interesting was Wendy took fee seats from patients who had durable Lankan sponsons and gave it to mice fecal transplant from the unions actually, recon student a response in Emmaus, no way. So that's that's how cool yet. So that's the only human shit cause kills most cats. Right. So that's that's so so to make sure I'm getting this. Right. They gave that they took the. The patients who are responding longtime patients who responding to a human patients responding to Munich therapy and gave it to those control mice that were raised in a clean environment. And they responded and the mice head disease had had tumors that Trump. Yeah. That's crazy. That's that's wild. So that was one of the craziest things that's ever been set on our bucket. The point is fecal transplant was additive with be immunotherapy. And then he did some very elegant working and isolated it down to the actual picture. The he thinks is important frame as eating this defect. That that's my next question is how much have we have we drilled down to discover. Okay. So what is the differentiator here so festive? That's that's very hard to do. You many ways trying to think of it how to do it? But what he did was he he sensually look at Israel species that appear teach aids. This argument was that the species that is probably mediated defect is the species that is probably changing the most on time zero to two weeks one meat. So that that species that is needed in the fact mustard speech. She's that is increasing in abundance over time what we know at least as of two thousand sixteen with these people's came out publish a lot of interesting jets was that there appears to be differences in the growth Connectix of these mice and that these growth kinetics and be can be eliminated by housing and wolf slightly is due to the effect of at least Tom is data even a theory defended bacteria, and that this administration of this bug along with it appears to control human growth in mice in the melanoma most bottle, and this energizes is has an attitude infect with new therapy. And then Rhonda's data suggesting that in a different immune therapy in this case e telephone therapy, a slight the different bug of used to mediate effect. But again, equal from human patients who were on his abuse resulted ANSA. Control issue of Aaron mice for so tied-in. Is this true is human Kansas fest? Right. So we not have three agents that have come out of the Las eighteen months. And have been Donovan huge amount of press. And these tweets eighth is look at I married a human data. In human cancer samples that is in in human patients who are treated in new therapy intestinal microbial composition of respondents of is to be sufficiently different from novice buckets. What is interesting is that all three papers set suggests that the victory in question is very different meaning that all vapors defined very very different bacteria as being associated as being responsible for effect in on the Asians. Right. And that was my next question is if you could enlighten us little bit on I guess, which cancers this is being tested on. Because obviously, I mean, defer, I think everyone is well where this at this point cancer is not one disease. It is so many so many infinite number of different versions of it in it's different for everybody. So I'm yeah, I'm fascinated to hear about the differentiation must be frustrating. But at the same time, very enlightening. Right. And that Vince to us at brings us to an Allen question, which is if. This difference is rail, and it's very important in science for us to save. You know in scientists we're very concerned with what we know. But we also equally very very reflective and contemplative what we don't turn. And the question is if this is a real nominal can this be motivated to actually affect treatment outcomes? Right. The end game. Right. So so so what are the steps? Yeah. What are the steps in between there? What's? Is there? So that that's that's that's a great question. So have many steps, and I don't see that. The first thing is the end game is not just one fact at the endgame isn't just is the microbiome valid targets for therapeutic manipulation. I think that's big, you know, big twenty thousand eight thousand foot question, I think obviously, yes. Because many by pharmaceutical involved in trying to manipulate microbiome two different ends. So clearly, the microbe intestinal microbiome is a setting in which beauty intervention is seventy Boston. At least not since it's the point being that this very very irritated should be studied. Whether you believe it not it said, it's something that should be studied ongoing. Immunotherapy charles. That's one of the first things that I think this phenomena suggests and I think investors that major by obstacle companies have. Started collecting sapling they destiny microbiome longitude any in clinical trial that they are doing. And so it will Bristol Myers. Mark and invested the age of I cynical on doing. And so that tells you that I think not really economic investigative such as us in our group. But I think best Gators even even by policy tickles have called in this is an area that eastern steady. So that's I think one cake. I assume you're saying that because you're you're you guys feeling push back while doing this research. You. We don't feed perspective if anything it's it's an endorsement, right? Okay. I mean, if you want doing this in the by pharmaceuticals like you, well, whatever, then, you know, it's it's you just working in isolation. But the fact that by pharmaceuticals are taking notice and the actually attempting to study this as well suggests that everybody realizes that the data that's being collected is, you know, at least at this. It's it may be very premature to make any major visions, but it suddenly some effective interest. So that's I think the fact the people take away that this is probably going to be an important sidelight all being active. We don't Prevette, but it's a very important factor determines how drug development happens in the next couple of years, maybe even molded that at least in the context of the immunotherapy. And it's the fact that people are studying that's very important important. And it seems so valuable, you know, I think and we tried to do good job of painting a comprehensive object. Viewpoint for folks, which is like immunotherapy has been incredibly successful in some ways. And in some ways, not effective at all. And in some ways, it has been dangerous for the patient. But it is very clear that there are reasons whatever they are. And we're so far from totally defining them much less free individual that it works for some folks in works for and it doesn't work for others or or works for some cancers. And it doesn't work for others. So does seem like things like this. If you if you're getting indicators, it certainly seems worth pursuing, and it's like you said, it seems like the drug companies feel that way too. And the second thing that's interesting is that you know, sort of backup low lead actors that I involved in trying to do in interventional uncle trials the space in the context of cans, and so the at least several from companies as well as economic investigators including out that attempting to try and see whether modulation they decimal microbiome can affect the outcome of cancer uniformity. And so I think that's the second wave of of what you know. What's what's happening? These clinical trials, obviously discovery significantly in that niche of the trial. Details of the trial details of the individual in the patient populations. And so on. But what are you seeing is that a couple of different companies are getting involved in the states to try and see with a companies as well as economic. Let's try and see whether or not you can actually make is that dimension that you can do that actually changes. The weekends Asians get treated. Hey, it's Brian Quinton the bathroom. I got a quick favor. Every podcast you listened to begs you for a rating in review on apple podcasts. Here's why not everybody listens on apple podcasts. Like, you might not be doing right now. But seventy percent of our listeners to and most podcast listeners to and the top charts are huge source of even more new listeners. So here's the deal. Some unholy combination of downloads in ratings and reviews drive up those top charts, and we like being on those top charts and getting new listeners. So we need your help. If you're listening on apple podcasts. Right. This second. It's super easy. It'll take five seconds. If you're staring at the episode screen just swipe down all the way down at the bottom. And then there's a little library button hit it. And then tap our show, scroll all the way down to ratings and reviews and just do it. There's five stars just hit hit the stars. And then Annette takes like a second. And then they can get hit hit the review and then write a review and that takes five seconds. A will. I'll wait for you. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for doing that. This is very exciting and very overwhelming. Like, there's just like an endless possibilities of word of where to go next. What what are we looking at for the next year or five years, or is it, you know, not really known yet because it is so early, but you know, I gotta ask a force. Well, I think the fussing gonna see is gonna be a lot of regarding the fest, which is I think that, you know, a lot more groups are gonna come out and start saying that okay? We think that this particular journalism unfold on that thing that predictors born this particular there is important. So I think it's gonna be a lot more joins. But yet that noise as that noise is being generated there will be, you know, just as it was out of noise is going to be local interest on data homogenisation because what can happen when you have noises. Somebody needs to sit back step back and say that's trying to make sense. Right. So I think what we are trying to do. Do along without collaborates. We have many collaborations is we're trying to get a sense to. What though what fact is off that make a difference in mediated the symbol to noise ratio. So isn't important to know what evily eating we think. So. Isn't important to know how much exercise people do we think so isn't important to know, what animated -cations people taking we think. So how'd you try and analyze data you just draw graphs and find bookies together guns done? That's a little hard to do what you dealing with things that are numbered trillions. So what have you know? I'm kind of computational approach typically involved in neural networks churn giant makes sense of how you get very very diverse is fair data points and Paul relate things that may be very very overly related in variable to overly related to tighten related that traditionally analysis is confounded by mulkey Columbia, Oregon and try and live relate these diapers. Disparage variables such as cancer response. And receipts anonymously to therapy admitted. Education at a critical composition using advanced computational techniques such as room that both houses. So I think that's one of the festival's. It's probably gonna start happening is going to be many, many data sets of noise, and then there's gonna be some allies Asian and with all is Asian then we're gonna get a better leads to which you can look at these data sets and make some sense as do actors that are involved and Trump factors will affect and we don't know what actors will then. But you know, let's try this man as much this weekend. I think that's one that's one probably gonna happen to. That's. Yeah. It's it's it's it's fascinating. But I'm it feels good denotes in good hands painting those sort of way points along the way those measurements. Stick. What what what do you feel like quickly are sort of the biggest obstacles you guys have run into or for C running into over? Again. Let's limit it. You know, the next six to eighteen months. So I think one of the actors is actually, and in many ways these things that other people over the ons, you know, so way does research was done fast in the context of inflammatory bowel disease necessity of inflammatory bowel disease. You know, I think it's again same thing up to people in the D will do this for a long time. We haven't cancer these touted by sixty is and what the very quickly realized was rated needed large national groups. Sure, you know. So this is centrally speaking is an American group, then there's even. In the American group. Yeah. Everybody just pulls dated and try to analyze this than experts in computation, the experts in micro, watch ecological analysis, the experts in communal and immunology in the trying figure out what's important less on enforcement, and how to rationally designed to nickel jobs and then in Europe is the same thing except Europe. And so I think what we need what we probably need in the next six eighteen months, and one of the one of the barriers is it probably needs to be a groups that conveyed say that this is what we're going to do. And these are the techniques that we're going to try and test, and these are the approaches that we're going to try and estimates ESTES in and root in a fashion that is not overlapping so that Asian to resources on visa so that we on duplicated efforts that other people are already doing. And so that signs in scientists in perfect United. It's not. As straight narrows one min always magic, lots zigzagged, but on the minimize zigzags, but we helps conserve resources because Nelson resources patient's lives, and what we'd like to do find Buddhists in as efficient fashions possible term, hopefully, something that we get done over the next six to eighteen months is actually a, you know, the full vision of groups that help corral disparity investigators together enter assign unique tasks of getting all work in full would direction right, and at least in the same direction. So I guess that segues pretty well into this is a little bit of a different conversation. Because obviously, we usually talk about things that can affect her or affecting everyone cancer is obviously affecting so many people everyone has a story or no somewhat are is someone. I mean, obviously, our listeners aren't all in line for immunotherapy which is. Great. But we do have a lot of patients and survivors, and some doctors and scientists and senators and plenty of advocates listening, we'd like to say our listeners take action with their voice their vote in their dollar. What do you feel questions or directives? We should be asking of our our representatives to fuel science like this to help push your your mission along the the first thing is we have actually been very fortunate that some of this research is actually being funded by a National Cancer Institute stone, you know, when when you read the news is very depressing craziness it happens. But but one thing that's very interesting. This is I think true of of the concerns Democrats like that one of the very few things that are almost everybody seems to agree on is that -unding me such and funding the mission of science specifically, the national institutes of health, mash cats is something that has surprisingly, you know, in these times actually got brought by. Fox's or and actually the NCI budget has actually ARCHE. It's it's it's twenty six point nine billion dollars. And that's I point seven billion dollars below the two thousand seventeen continuing resolution devil, but it is, you know, a fatty amount to and you're right. I think that was interesting. I think Trump proposed cutting that greatly and congress said no way. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually, that's actually very reassuring because, you know, everybody complains about congress, congress has actually done very well by the because even though the hitch budget has been cut the SEI's, but that is the budget of the national Hansen's toots in our infrastructure. Twenty nineteen has actually been priest mice Audi nine million dollars. So it's five point seven of them. And that's seventy nine million dollars increase of fiscal year twenty nine so angst to, you know, everybody Republicans Democrats on dependence. NCIS budget is L V. So I think everybody should take off. Sure. Sure. Our elected representatives. You know, regardless of stripe all all pocket federation of kit me of listening, Michigan, NCI seconds. That's I guess is is useful. As is this week. This research cancer research is very very, but this is also very important area that for people to understand in that if you were with answer, you know, somebody with answer you have a relative who's dealing with acid. It's it's impossible to to underscore. How important it is that you a seeing a medical oncologist are essential colleges or radiation conscious affiliated with national answer. Center is a Comprehensive Cancer Center because that's what a large bulk of these research Athens. Right. So one of the things that you take away from all of this is that, you know, sure investigators at university, Pittsburgh, don't necessarily agree with the investigators, Mr. Chicago, but may not may not necessarily agree with you the investigators at Indiana Senator what's unique but all these weaknesses is that the all comprehensive cancer centers. And if you think that the founding mission of the NCI, which was to designate the incentives is being formed areas research to happen. One of one of the missions is ensure that research happens at the level of comprehensive asset, and so one of the reassuring features is that even these times struggling done, and it was so much disagreement between people even fans, but once what's fascinating is that at this research is happening as a result of and see I don't live and people disagree on relative. You know, minute things by the NCI. NTN mission is being fulfilled because optical trials of this message is being supported by MCI Talas through so helping support that would be very useful. So it a people sometimes give charitable contributions. So that's always well people tell the gelding legislative elected legislators that only know these guys helping us that's always, you know, getting a shout out on Twitter on Facebook any social media. That's helpful. Ultimately, assigns that gets funded is the science that helps people, but it's also the signs of people hear about it Nova. Sure. And then I think that's a good note to folks, you know, again, like you said, congress has been surprisingly, an affective leave supportive of science, even even despite the pushback from the administration. So that doesn't mean you don't need to call your Representative. That means call your Representative and thank them for doing what they're doing. And and encourage them, so they don't feel like they're they're left out in the cold with all the other shit going on. So, you know, thank them for their their long-term vision and for for focusing on what's good. And if you have a personal story tell it whatever helps these people feel like they can do even more is is is important. And then personally, you know, obviously, knowing there's a still so much to uncover in, you know, we're very early on. Do you? Do you have any guidance on what the rest of us should be doing to put our ourselves in our good in our our or poop in the in. The best place to to succeed should something. Like this come our way. People often ask, you know, you say a diet. I should actually do follow the Royal tell to eight doctor what asking should I don't eat sugar. And you know, in almost kinda crazy is that, you know, we have the best of doing a lot of very deeply analyze Guidry histories and stuff to try and get a sentence, gene. As to what's important. What's not? But one of the things that we found out is that if he Koop back to the last ten to fifteen years of nutritional data, there's some that lots of data points. It's just that that sudden Daichi elements are important when you look at those nicely. You know, it appears that it can high high fiber that he has to important. Eating a little bit eating less meat red meat feel making of omega three only actually at a funny. Unsaturated fats nigga three fatty acids abused exercise appears to be putting but you know, let's let's that's ever been. And think of right. So. Eating Ness Rigby eating polyunsaturated fatty acids and make its lease and high fiber and not eating too much. Mean commonsensical, right. That's people seem only would think. So. Right. So so what's what's interesting is that we really rediscovering on shoots. Sure. And sure what we're just, you know, I'm offering what I think is the scientific basis with things that why commonsensical all along, but we identify that a day is a rational basis to doing things that people most people all along you to be to land that it'd be you know, eight twenty four inch by every day of the week. It's probably not a good thing. Whether it's becomes even Oates bagful, it's bad for you got microbiome. I don't know. But the point is not helpful regardless. It's probably not helpful. That's you're right. It is it it almost like, we're we're taking a step back to going like, oh, do this do this and this, and there's this great food and sort of culture on health writer, Michael Poland and his famous code is. I think it's truly short is eat food. Not too much mostly plants mostly blunt. Yeah. And and it just, you know, look, you can you can ask all the questions you want about the microbiome, and whether it's going to help you not get cancer fight off cancer. But it's like as well as everything else in all of our other issues. Just just, you know, eat real food that comes out of the ground not too much of it plants. And and and you'll be on the whole in a better place, not to mention an entirely different conversation. The environment will be yeah. It'll be in a much better place. I'll hey, really I have a really quick question. Did it ever? Did you ever figure out why those mice and Jackson were just in right off the bat better at? Yeah. What were they supposed to know? They they have different microbial species. Yeah. It's an speech. That's why it's yeah. It's incredible. Yet, it if you had to be about, and there's no reason for it. Really? They just they just have a difference. Yeah. If you think about it, you know, the sudden operations, you know, on earth with. Where just by virtue being Bombay and a little longer writing. And it's very interesting this as a socioeconomic reason for this is a demographic reason to this. But what's fascinating is that so much of what is considered socioeconomic is also by logical right to in that, you know, what is the Mediterranean diet, the Mediterranean that is sort of thing. But you don't have to live in the Mediterranean area to adopt meditating guy. Right, right. Frank just so happens that the people who live there, you know, Anna do, but you don't have to. And so what's what's interesting is that it it's just a lot of these geographical differences, and at the no demographic differences that we attribute to set. In fact, is I actually mutable it not immutable to the parents wild awesome. Well, a doctor thank you. So so much for for being here and talking with us today where I know we've had yawn for a bit and. We'll we'll wrap it up with just the last few questions, but we really really appreciate your time. Yeah. Absolutely. This has been very enlightening for for all of us. I think it's pretty awesome. So Dr sort of lightning round here slightly off topic slightly now little more meta. Dr one was the first time in your life. When you realized you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful all our of change was was relatively early. I mean, I'm South Asian Indian parents, and you try and say no to something they want you to do you just get hit. That's something unique white people dude beat the parents who read so I realized very early on that abyss parents of things will go to jure spies change went. I am many things, but it's again primarily because I always had this idea enter to try and make a defense in in what we do ticket obeisance. But it's pretty comes from a young age. You know, my parents have fairly influential in in getting the twos. This as as full second question. I think in science it. You know, you are lot of who you mentor IDs, and the mentorship issue and scientists something that is is it's very well know, and, but it's also the same on a study as well recognized because we didn't do a scribe a lot to individuals. But the truth is, it's never just one guy always a group. But it's all it's never just that guy is what he did for the people that. And to case these this is, you know, maybe talking, but doesn't actually is driving. Lot of session guy. I worked with ends a very influential human canceling all his name is Assam roar, and he's being in all sort of Fronton center in the development of novel immune therapies have. Biological discoveries that have made huge differences in the treatment of Canada. And you know, if your amputation you've been on a Sunday. No, we is. But a cancer patient who's receiving PD one. Immunotherapy he's one. No, not the only one. But definitely wants the festival, Sean. This is ineffective peatland for Asian slow before the critical trials actually done. Sure. And it's act to into that that, you know, we've got a lot of the work that you've done done is you need people with tremendous ideas. And then you can translate those ideas discovery and all that end from evil that you worked with in this collegial environment. That one is end to me. I think a lot of what we do is due to wear Iraq, and and the environment ones in but also Vince wants mentors. I love that. Yeah. That's an awesome, answer mentorship. Nobody is to good. We'll Madison island. Yes. No. No, no, no, no human is too. Good for a good mentor. Or in their life. It makes a huge difference. I'm lucky to have a few of those myself this field, you work in seems like it could be overwhelming at times when it is doctor. What do you do to specifically? How do you vent? I talked to my wife. She's very she's a lawyer fees. Very good keeping. Does she used to be in politics? Who's actually a to up to bet Strickland's financing being Zushi's? She wasn't Ted's triplets Venus's financed or go child. Wasn't politics issues. Lawyer Jesus voyeur she helps keep it real. She helps in I especially when I when I when I get a little too serious to another another great person to have not only a mentor, but the person, you know, every time when you need to talk and go to that person and depend on them pretty how do you consume the news, Dr Davar, actually, we don't have a TV? Nice. I like the call wait in either my wife, I mean, we don't have a TV at home, and we don't have a cable subscription. So I think been limited to what we read and what you hit work. And so, yeah, I primarily could reduce my phone, but we don't have TV love it. Yeah. That's great. So Brian's got his last last question favor question last question favorite question. Doc, if you could Amazon prime one book to Donald Trump. Trump. What book would that be one of the books that I found most interesting is actually several of the books by a tube of Andre in sadaqa Burji, but you know, the physicians who right for new audience, right? But I sent him cocoa on his book. It's something newest one the one he wrote a thousand fourteen minutes called being mortal. Right. And it's it's it's it's it's very interesting both that addresses hospice care, the reason it's important is because so much of what we think is important in size like know, we're so happy inside his on the NCI funding research Vance the this that and that's very important. You know, like cancer cell sell companies, make billions of dollars based stuff itself. Sure. These things ultimately help small groups of select select few groups of people. Sure, let's. What will go on the writes about the ones that the one thing that is a certainty full for every human is that you know, human existence is by definition done. It. Everybody is guaranteed that ducts rape. And what are you talking about is that is that age related frailty age related illness cancer is something that in this country, especially that we've often overlooked. You know, we spend so much money on advances in gas again any no make no mistake. I'm you know, my research it ends of that funding. Trae I'll much of what we do, you know, as we're doing it, we ignore things that are very, you know, how much I spend contemplated that other fantas and ensuring that that people who are going to die. Well, now, we we don't do very good job of that in this country. We don't you don't. And it's it's tragic because it happened so many different levels it happens because patients sometimes to agree realize that doctors sometimes don't realize win enough is enough patients on some I'm still at the access to facilities such as hospice hospice care and sometimes. Country because of issue student access to care hospice onto valuable the hospital on necessarily as well remunerated has other doctors having conversation isn't something that is that isn't a Saturday as emphasized as should be because you can read bus models. At some point. Is that at as as what miss the what we do is? We try to enjoy cats Nick make sure that everybody dies of old age drought answer. We also need to allies that when when these things don't work we need to ensure that patients have the opportunity to die dignity doesn't vote access to some of these services out of kids in our cultural cure isn't necessarily sometimes as well emphasized and often. I really I I love all his writing. It's a that is a fantastic book. And and definitely alternative you point that that we need to start at least talking about more in instituting more. I've been trying to get Brian to read his other broke the checklist manifesto for about two years now. Yeah. That's that's also very here is good. Yeah. It's a hell of a book. We'll doctor. We can't think enough for your time today. This has been super enlightening for all of us in hopeful and inspiring little mind-blowing blowing. A very very long way to go. But we appreciate having folks. Like you doing the work every day with such a well, considered perspective. No problems having. Yeah. Of course. And we will follow up with you at some point down the road to see how everything's going. Awesome. Sounds good. All right, doctor. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you again. Thank you. Thanks to our incredible guest today, and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome, workout or dishwashing or fucking toll walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder, please subscribe to our free Email newsletter at important, not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species, and you can follow us all over the internet. You can find us on Twitter at important, not IMP. So weird also on Facebook and Instagram at important, not important Pinterest. And tumbler the same thing. So check us out. Follow us share us like us, you know, the deal, and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts, keep the lights on. Thanks, please. And you can find the show notes from today. Right in your little podcast player and at our website important, not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our gym and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guys.

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Bonus: The #1 thing you can do to fight climate change

Important, Not Important

1:02:14 hr | 4 years ago

Bonus: The #1 thing you can do to fight climate change

"Welcome to important important. My name is Cornell. And I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy, and we are releasing this episode which was twenty one with Peter Kalmus, and there's Feerick scientists data GPL because should has gotten real with climate change, even more. So or you're just finding out that it's real been here the whole time, not your fault. That's what we're here for. But you're wondering what the hell you can do about it. And that's what this episode is all about speed wrote a book. Yeah. He wrote a book about all the amazing things you can do to reduce your carbon footprint. That's right. So if you wanna feel like you you need to scratch and start making some changes today like Michael Jackson, which by don't make some of those changes. Now, not all of the changes. No, no, no, whatever inspired the main in you know, what just listened to a Peter the podcast podcast. Right. Thanks, guys. Our guest today is Peter campus and together we're going to answer the question. What's the single most effective thing? You can do to affect climate change. Peter, welcome. Thanks, having me quaint and Brian. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Brother. Peter. Tell us real quick who you are. And what you do. All right. So I am. I've had I've had kind of a piecemeal career. I went to graduate school in physics. And then I did Astra's expert eight years actually worked with the collaboration which recently discovered gravitational waves. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, but you know, I started reading around to two thousand six started reading more and more about climate change. This was a graduate student manage just, you know, the more I read the more concerned, I got in twenty twelve twenty seven twenty twelve I made the leap to atmospheric science, and I was a post doc at Caltech in Pasadena, and so I made the leap about five miles up the road to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and became in atmospheric scientists and started, you know, doing studying various parts of the climate system and things related to climate change. So I am speaking on my own behalf year. Around the same time the two thousand six to two thousand eight period as I was getting more concerned. I started to talk to my friends about climate change back, then, you know, in terms of how people are thinking about climate change and talking about it. It was really a different world back in two thousand and six I felt really kind of loan. I didn't have a community that was that cared about it. People in my family were pretty skeptical. Pretty silence about it. So it was it was kind of a weird time. I was speaking out and getting largely ignored and sort of getting kind of increasingly frustrated Jim might be clear is he. Hi Bennett, my family, moved to California. I finished my PHD in two thousand eight and we were in New York City, and then we moved to California. And I started gardening that was kind of an any sort of biting those two things really. Started to transform me. And made me realize that instead of just talking about this stuff, I really had to start doing something. So there's a huge question. Right. Like, what can one person do about this global podcast huge powder overwhelming global problem? Right. So so then, you know, for the last ten years I'd said really wrestled with that question. I'm not wrestling turned into a book, which got published in twenty seventeen and sorta like tell it tells the story of of these transformations sort of deep experimentation I did with responding as as one single Manel on this planet to climate change. But an important mammal. Can you tell everybody what the name of the book is? So it's called being the change live well and sparked a climate revolution. You know, and. We we went the publishing I went went back and forth with the title while and finally just kind of went further direct approach. Guess yes. So, you know, one of the things that I did was I decided to drastically reduce my own use of fossil fuels at it. Did that for reasons that you'll maybe your listeners would be a little bit surprised about? So it wasn't just to directly reduce my emissions to the atmosphere. So when I before I started reducing I was like twenty metric tons per year. Roughly is at present rightfully the US average. Over the course of three or four years. I reduced that to buy by about a factor of ten down to about two metric tons per year. And that's like a tiny drop in the global emissions ocean freight. So I'm not under any pretense that these kinds of personal reductions are going to lake sort of be directly significant to the problem. But the the reasons I reduce was I just didn't like burning fossil fuels anymore. So when it had a decision to get on a plane or not going on the plane, I more and more start to lean towards not getting on the plane just because I felt sort of gross doing all that emissions. Like once I knew at what parts of my lifestyle were emitting a lot. I just didn't feel really that good about doing that emission credible. So that was that was kind of the main reason was just kind of implementing that knowledge in my personalise 'em in the second thing was I kinda started to realize pretty fast that the. Changes. I were was making changes. I made were were not like making the less. Happy bidden really feel like huge sacrifices or anything. They're kind of fun. And you know, they felt meaningful. You know? They've got me into a lot of new hobbies. Like, I said like gardening Viking. That's all more connected to the community. There's a lot of research that talks about how connection to community more connected community least more happiness, Mike, you know, everyone says reducing your fossil-fuel years like wearing a her shirt. And it's a huge sacrifice experience was directly opposed to that the Amish wisdom. That's awesome. So I so I was like I gotta talk about this. So that's what led to sure writing the book. I love a man we're gonna dig into all that stuff. So you can be our everybody's own personal messiah a little bit, which I think is exactly the opposite of what you were going for. More is like know one water molecule in a way 'cause I'm Bill I'm building on like what other people are doing. And hopefully, kind of like contributing to sort of a change in the collective story. You know, and other people can take what I'm doing and run with it for, sir. You know, it, but you know, what there's a lot of doom and gloom. And and at the same time good news out there. But, but I do think there's a lot of room for like, hey this. Here's some really specific stuff that not only worked for me and worked my family, but made me feel awesome. Because nobody really response to reflect. You know, in the broadest sense that just makes you feel like I'm just gonna lex chill. But just never doesn't feel depressed feel infield oppressed. This just is perfect for this conversation is perfect because our whole thing every episode is what can we actually all do like what actual actions, and you have a fucking book full of. Right. So I guess this is the last episode perfect. We did it. Yeah. So all right. Let's get let's get into our conversation for today. Like, I just said all what we wanna do is ask questions that get answers that are affiliated with action. Like what can everybody actually do to help? You know, we want to get to the bottom of of what we're talking about. So that everybody truly understands it and can make some action and take some action to you know, help help make this place a little bit better. Right. Awesome. So Peter, and I think you alluded to this a little bit. We're gonna ask him more. Specifically we start with one important question. We feel important you might not so much. Truly get the hard way you're here today. And that is instead of telling us what your life story is. We like to ask Peter why are you vital to the survival of the species? This is by species. No bigger here. Well, okay. I could take that into a totally different direction than you probably expect that my by the way, ten people say, I'm not and I love to hear why let's do this. All right. Well, I have two beautiful young boys. All right. So they're right now, they're ten and eleven they keep getting older on me. They are, you know, they're they're kind of absorbing all the the kind of climate change individual response stuff that I'm doing they're starting to possibly get interested in sort of speaking out in south. And I think that you know, the kids are so we saw with the, you know, the park land movement and a number again help however ful such moral authority that that kids can yet wail. Right. So I would never push them to to cut of echo my message. But if they ever decide to start speaking out like from their own volition than I was certainly support that. But they're definitely like they're getting the gardening day. And you know, they love the fact. We have chickens total used to walking to school. It's like a mile away and biking to school and were like in the school. They're they're like little local celebrities because they don't have to drop off in a car. Everyone thinks that's totally weird. Which is weird. Because when we were kids, you know, insane to me, it's totally different. When we were kids. Everyone was walking bunion that was like heart heartland got dropped off to the cards. Totally changed in the last couple of decades. So anyway, in a literal sense, they are my contribution to the survival of the species. And then, you know, there's all kinds of touch rec- about overpopulation, sir. What what we can do on that front and from from my point of view, you know, both of my kids were were born kind of wall, my consciousness about global warming, and sort of the future, the the places that looks like we're taking this Bina that consciousness was hoping for me. So it didn't really factor in that strongly back then to my decision to have. The kids. And then you know, we were talking about having a third definitely by. Then it definitely factored into my decision. Like, you know to having two kids is below replacement rate. You know, so so I'm definitely proponent for smaller families for impounding women for promoting contraception globally, you know, to to try to things that we can try to do to kind of make the reality of human population. Be more on the lower end of the projections as opposed to higher end of the projection tash about my third was a complete accident. So we can play the podcast farm in fifteen years race. So feel even worse. Oh. Yeah. I I I hear you, man. I love that answer. I've got three little ones that are younger than yours. And my oldest is very inquisitive curious and opinionated on this stuff. I I told the story early in our podcast, which is they're so close in age, but all in school, but at one point on different versions of preschool in going back titties in such that we had to get a minivan as despite my own feelings about at all and. One day just goes climate change on the way to baseball. And I was like oh, man. I mean, how much time do we have here pal? And you know, we were talking and we're looking at tail pipes and things like that. And how it all works. You know, the greatly simplified eight minute version on the way to baseball practice in. He by the end of it was like, so how are we going to get home? As I what do you mean? I was like, I'm I'm guessing Brock does not take. But we can't ride the minivan again because it's a pollution announced. Like what now him? It was like we need the car to get get around. It's like, yes, the tiller is the big dilemma at. But he was like had made up his mind. He was like, yeah. But no, but we can't right in this car anymore. And it's the same thing. He did when I told him where paper comes from from trees up. Well, guess I'm never using paper again. And again like I didn't push these things on. But he's just so tuned into it. And as just a it's it's it's pretty black and white for him. Obviously. We'll get more complicated. But. To use it to us, an appropriate metaphor. I think. He's kids is it's where the rubber hits the road for on climate. I think yeah, I'm maybe a little bit of a cliche, but in for my own personal path, everyone has a different patch for me. You know, like having the two kids was real kick in the pants in terms of my own for sure kind of concern that my own call to action, you know. So there's definitely a sense that you know, what I'm doing doing for them. And then it kinda like brought in my whole view sort of feel in some sense. Like when I see little kids kinda feel like an away. You know, I'm responsible for them to know. You know, what is the animals, and you know, what I read about read scientific papers about coral reefs. You know? Yeah. It's just it's not feel kinda responsible for for not responsible. Exactly. But you know, I I feel like this is my purpose is here to be kind of like an earth father, you know, to speak out for all of these beings. That don't really have a voice, you know, I've been. Yeah. It's true. I've always felt like, you know, since we started this newsletter thing a couple years ago in the podcast. You know, again, we're we're twenty plus episodes ended it's going great. And I just feel like at some point, you know, my when my children are even a little older, and they recognize the totality of what is what is happened to this planet, mostly because of us and our the generations before us, they're gonna look at us. You know, say what did you do to help? And of course, my answers can be like, I started a podcast, man. But no, it's the it's the day to day actions that that really matter. So let's let's again, let's dig into that point for today's. We're gonna do little thing we call context on one with professor, Brian which I mean, Jesus at this point could mean anything anything he does his best. It's all we can ask for for everybody to do our best. And we got Peter here to keep us on track. And hopefully, he doesn't you know, hang up before. This is all always. All right, Brian. Here we go. Here's here's the. Here's the deal. Okay. You know, you contributed to this mess. Stuck in the listener every bell everyone. I mean little bit right? Rarely all of us. And you know, your parents did a ton of damage like let me do my thing. Okay. All right. If I will agree with you baby boomers are a nightmare. Right. But all right. So anyway, your grandparents well like, okay. It's like smoking, for example issues that analogy or metaphor whatever the word is when you're trying to compare stuff. Yeah. So okay. So grandparents didn't really know it was bad. And so everybody just smoked them. And then everybody got lung cancer, just like they didn't wear sunscreen, and then now they all have melanoma or some degree of skin cancer. And then your parents sort of knew it wasn't great. But they didn't have all the evidence that they just did it anyways factories coal cars, oil flying smoking. Same thing. Suntanning? Sure. Solve our generation. You know, we certainly did some some dumb shit. We very much to be cool, and you know, fucked off on Earth Day, but you know, Jesus Christ has come back to kick us right in the nuts. It is. That is true. And unlike smoking or well, actually, it's sort of like, secondhand smoking. Maybe the point I'm trying to make. As we all contributed to it to climate change. And and it's now affecting all of us like, we're all connected. Everything's we always talk about this. Everything is connected. It's a very is not have fed. Companies in the fossil fuel companies are like certainly a thousand percent at fault and knew the whole time right in should absolutely. Be sued the into oblivion, but all right, anybody who's still smokes is sort of an asshole. But contributing climate change is like actually sort of hard to kick a little more complicated. Yeah. We gotta go places we wanna fly places. We want a see in our apartments when he the powerhouses and until like super recently at hasn't really been up to us or or even anywhere close to forcible or technologically possible to make our decisions on how to how to do this ourselves. Okay. And the alternatives and not just mocking or or the the gum in the the patch. Or would there not officiant? You know, what I mean on their way to expensive utilities? Didn't look very fondly about like solar and such so yeah, right win. Right. You know, not your choice if you can use hydro hydropower not enough. No. And you know. If you try to do this sometimes you're punished for it. And you know, now, the the next generation the millennials are catching tons of heat. But man, they are fired up about all kinds of shit yet. And there's like they're still smokers. But man, they have dumb, right. And the generation after them whatever they're called. I think just babies they might just be called babies. I don't think that specifically what they're what we were talking on name. Right. They're they're like actually suing state governments and the federal government like they do not give a fuck. Right. And by the way, I've got fully to the dark side sign this every time I hear a baby boomer Rippon millennials or younger about their work. Ethics. I am gleefully. Remind them that these kids are cleaning up there. Fucking mess. Exactly what they did infuriating. So all right. So you've contributed to it. You Quinn again, you Peter odyssey all of us. We still are. We all are. But what can we do to mitigate it right there? A lot of advice out there. Some of it's awesome. Like the draw down the plan by Paul Hawkins. Those guys some really good advice. But what we wanna do is figure out what you can do right now today in your life. You are a tiny tiny little impact on a overheated star in a distant corner of inhospitable infinite space. Spices fucking glorious. And like, it's the only bed we've got. So we better do something, and we are making serious progress. But may end we have a long way to go goodness. Is you know, all the little tiny things that all of us are doing they add up and the whole point of his podcast is to do those things to take action. So let's get into it. Wow. That was quite the sermon. Four from earlier. Nobody knows we're not this is not a girls grammar cast. That's amazing. Thank you, Brian. So with that for some context throwing the blame all around. Now, let's turn it and say, what's the single most effective thing you can do to affect climate change. So Peter take us through this a little bit. What's what's the first thing? You did when you started to overhaul your life? Okay. Well, let me take a step back, and we should we should discuss. Whether you know is even worse doing any like individual changes to reduce. Console fuel on was was kind kinda like nail that town. Then we can talk about the specifics about how to do that force. Like, there's a big section of my book about that. Exactly. So so, yeah, you know, I think we gotta stop beating around the Bush share, you know, we know that the majority the vast majority of the cause of climate change is burning fossil fuel. There's a little bit also comes from like agriculture forest and turning them into farmland, but the majority of is burning fossil fuel. So I think it's just remarkable that it's twenty eight teen. And so few people are actually like leading, by example, and saying like, here's how you burn less fossil fuel not just as a stunt not like as a one year thing like, you know, do these not in a write a book, but as a sustained change in the way, you live the way you think about like the way you interact with the community, and your friends know, how can you do this in a system, that's designs? A setup to force you kind of to encourage you to burn fossil fuel. Can you live like a decent life of the kind of a normal life in that system? Right. My thinking is that? There's a when I talk about into individual teams a lot of people are like what we need systems change. You know, you shouldn't focus on individual change. That's a distraction we need systems change. But always say, well, how do you? How exactly do you propose for like one typical person in individual to push for that systems change? So I see like a connection between what the collective does you know, and what individuals do right to connection? So the culture the collective culture influences how we think what we think is possible. And what we do, you know, we're kind of hurt animals. So what we do influences the people around us, and let them kind of is design Q is what's possible? And what they can imagine what they can envision for the teacher. Right. So so I I think it's just really obvious to me that probably. The most meaningful action that a single typical person can take on climate change is to stop burning so much fossil fuel and to explore that in a really deep way. So get really creative with it really explored how our lives interact with emissions, and you know, kind of a lot of people have a hobby that they put a lot of energy into people are avid golfer is our average Birdwatchers or whatever people are two writers put at least much upper as someone who's really passionate about a hobby into this kind of quest is what I find it to be deeply meaningful quest to learn how to live with a lot less kill at it. Do that it conspicuous way, you know. And that's where a lot of creative creativity comes in. How can you sort of let people know about it in a way that they will find compelling, right? So so so key part there is as you go down this path of changing how you interact with fossil fuels what? What about those changes? Do you find kind of cool or compelling or interesting or sustainable in your life, or maybe just even fun, right? Maybe something makes you feel healthier eating less meat or biking. Maybe flying less mix feel less stress. Like, there's less trips to plan less jet by during nights in a hotel. You can engage spend more time with your family engage with community more. So so what's the positive side of the story? And you can only really start telling that as you start living like I find there's just absolutely no way to fake this. Right. And then then as you start going down that pass. You know, you can look for other things to do things like pushing for policy, for example. So so I'm a huge proponent of carbon price specifically Kardashian dividend, right? So then as you start pushing for those things you can do it even more likely right because he everyone who's give talk or something or you write a piece about it. People are like, well, like, you know, this person's really serious. They're not just paying lip service to this actually making real changes Java with right? So so no matter what you're pushing for at a more abstract collective level. It's going to come from a more authentic place. Right. So so I guess what? I'm trying to say is by response to the people was a forget about individual action. It doesn't matter only focus on collective action. Is that those two things don't exist. Soberly laid they're gonna walk the walk personally. Yeah. But but I don't see lot of people doing that yet. I think that. Part of the problem here is that we have a culture burning fossil fuels, right? We are socially rewarded for burning fossil fuel you go on to fly someplace exotic vacation posts about Facebook. You got you do a lot of business travel helps you get promotion. So maybe, you know, you buy a huge mansion, and, you know, people get this young conspicious conspicuous consumption is conspicuous non-consumption any some August social points for that. So we need to that story on its head and make burning fossil fuel socially unacceptable. And how do we do that? Well, if if you know people who are advocating for action at a collectible are still burning a lot of fossil fuel in their their daily lives. There's sort of sir actions kind of cemented that that prevailing culture burning lots of veal in place. You know, they don't want to do that. But that's. What they're doing. Right. We're very we're very sensitive to what what our peers are actually doing right. Maybe even at a subconscious level, maybe even more so than what they're saying. And if we commanders to do that like gradually there's enough people start moving away from fossil fuels, and you know, calling for this sort of change through their actions than than maybe that could make some space for the collective change. We need right. Maybe maybe people actually start voting on climate change, which they're not doing right now. Right. They're winning another issues. But if you know as this culture starts to shift, I think at unlocks the space for the collective changes that we desperately need. Yeah. Feel like saying those two things aren't connected. So why like that's insane. Yeah. It's it's crazy. So so so where did you start Peter? Okay. So the first thing that I did was was started biking. So at the time, I was commuting from my home to Caltech. It was about six miles. Okay. As riding really guests motorcycle. Ryan v listen before, but you sound a lot like me right now, and you know to start. Again, you know, I was thinking more and more about climate change. It was getting more and more real for me. And I was just like, you know, this doesn't feel good to keep burning all this gas at what if I tried biking instead than the first time. I did it felt weird. He'll just kind of weird to be just, you know, looking down at the pavement right in front of me the little thin wheel. Right. And and the first time I did it took me a long time over the course of a couple of weeks. I cut my commute time at Hafiz. I optimize the routes. Started muscle's got stronger, my confidence improves and thing is I loved it. It just felt so good in so many ways, you know, is getting exercise. I I've never been. I have enough discipline really to bring to the gym or to eat a really go for runs. So building this exercise every day into my life. You know, biking twelve miles a day back and forth. That was I just I just moved from Hatton where I was walking everywhere came to California started driving instead. And so I put put on a few pounds and Nope by biking those went away, and I started feeling better. I remember the feeling of freedom ahead when I was a kid now bike around neighborhood, which again, I think kids are doing less and less of these days. Yeah. So wonderful feeling kind of like what else can I change you like if that was the role mentioned, so let's get specific for secto because I'm sure a lot of people like, yes. But it'll take me too long or yes. But I will be sweaty. When I get to work. Yes. But this is so what are your what are your answers to those? Specifically again, knowing that your situation doesn't apply to everyone. But yeah, absolutely. My situation doesn't apply to everyone. You know? Sometimes there's we all know that there's things that we kind of feel like doing moment. Maybe eating a huge thing ice cream that we we want to do. But we know it's gonna make steel worse late around all the time. We wanted to in the moment. He like maybe exercising that. We know it's gonna make us feel better in the long run. Right. And this is just like a fundamentally human thing. Applies to latch the spheres of life. I would say, you know, don't. In terms of the biking, specifically give it a try because it's easy to make his I think that even more than the sweating and kind of effort involved. It's more kind of the convenience factor. It takes a little bit the ad. You might have to leave a little bit more time. You might have to take a change of clothes. It's all doable. But you know, when you have we've got the maybe kids to worry about an your time. And you got all this your life's already too busy. It can seem too hard to kind of break over that inconvenience barrier. But once I did it once my wife did it too. So my waist, Sharon. And if anything she's even more of a biking advocate than I am. So so that was you know, as you really hustle getting her interested in biking to just she kinda just really embraced it. I think it's just a wonderful thing feels great when you're doing it. It makes me happy, you know, going to wars off depression. This is really interesting a lot of people don't know this. But it'll actually add is significantly to your lifespan on average. If you take a population alerts population of people, you look at the people who buy commute, and you look at the people who don't buy canoe. The people bike commu on average will live like I don't remember what the exact number is. But it's like it's on the order of year longer just because of the reduced risk for heart disease for for strokes heart and the reduced risk of you being flattened by semi truck in California and a motorcycle. I think that there's a very slightly higher risk from from injuries of as as more and more people got on bikes. Bless people drive and the bike infrastructure improved. That will only happen. If people start actually demanding by biking that will be done even more. But it's already like, you know, orders of magnitude smaller in terms of risk than than than not having that daily exercise. I have a couple of things to say. Number one. Listen, I I can like relate to you. Peter with a feeling terrible about, you know, riding, the motorcycle and actually adding like your I can hear myself adding pollution to the to the planet. I don't love it in like it really does make me wanna change. And I y love my motorcycle. I used to ride a bike a lot around town in between having cars, and like the main it really did suck. When I got to work in sweaty. Well, how can I keep doing this as hideous have to work a whole shift now, but like that lasted like three days, and then the rest of the time that I did it. It was fine. And it just felt wonderful. It is always that one. Anytime you're making a big change that just the transition that sucks, and you can either give up and be like well now, this is I just can't do this or you just push through a little bit like literally for a couple of weeks, and you can like everything is fine. Yeah. And you and you again like there's can be a lot of people out there. And I think a lot of people do this where that they're not doing it for the climate change. And you kinda gotta meet them where they are which is like. To lose a little weight or you just want to get your heart and better condition, or you just want to be outside in nature, a little more, whatever the thing is that also helps them contribute to to personally taken on climate change nine great. Like, you said, Peter it just felt wonderful. Yeah. It felt really good. We're not gonna save the planet by getting on. I mean, we probably everyone did ever not everyone's gonna do it. Yeah. So then the other thing is, you know, since it was going to do it Irish people to to take a look cuts do carbon emissions audit to yourself and just actually on that note. So you mentioned calculate you calculated. What your carbon impact was and then taking down tenfold could you actually just back up real quick? And actually talk us through how to how one does that. Yes. So you need to know like how much CO two is omitted when he burned gallon gas, right? When you fly thousand miles when you eat meat versus vegetarian versus vegan for a year. You know, if you buy one hundred dollars worth of natural gas or electric city how much does this translate to carbon emissions, right? So so I kind of like I looked at seven fears of of how our daily lives interact with climate change. So it isn't things I said, it's also like waste. So if you like throw food into the landfill. It's mentoring methane and stuff like buying new stuff when it's manufactured there that use battlefields to create it. So there's body fossil fuel in the stuff. So for for those kind of seven typical categories in my I kind of I got out, you know, purity papers and for for most of them stuff. I think there's a lot more research. That needs to be done on how making our stuff contributes to climate change. But I did the mess. I could to estimate those conversion factors for the Senate from categories by you just have to do a little bit of, you know. All right. So you're not about how many gallons did. I. Burn this year. So, you know, about, you know, how how many miles per gallon your vehicle gets, and you know, how far you went. So you can estimate that very roughly putting some factor for how many passengers e had same thing with lying. And then maybe it would take about an hour for someone to was adults conversion factors that are in my book to kind of figure that out, and I will say that when I I did this in twenty ten I was really surprised by what I found at that time. I was I been planning to put solar panels on all gung on it's going to cost a lot of money pay back for us attorney using very much like the payback is going to be about thirty years for us before we kinda made up them, the the investment of putting solar panels up there like that. That's not that great. But a go for it. But then I did this. I looked at my own emissions. And I realized that for me at the time flying was by far my largest source of emissions on talking like more than three quarters of it. Yeah. And then the second biggest one for me was was food for was eating meat. So some I'm gonna put the solar panels on hold and focused on these two areas. The most sound like all rights, how can I fly less took me several years to ramp that down I had to talk to my parents. I figure out how to live in Illinois United to figure out how to get. Another illinois. Best friends. And then, you know, became I I've been thinking for years before even before he did this about becoming vegetarian and you're just because I don't wanna harm the idol. I don't wanna be eaten. So I kinda liked fan. Avi mother beating either. Yeah. So thinking about that for a long time. And this finally the kick to actually try it like gosh, I like this to you know, being being vegetarian I sort of felt lighter felt like food tastes better. You know, grocery those went down all of that stuff. Yes. Once you get this picture of how your daily life is interacting with climate change. That's when you can release sort of decide where you might wanna intervene. What experiments you you might wanna do? And you have as great we'll put it in the show notes. But on your on your website. You have this this page on there where you can make a pie chart and even linked to a a like a climate calculator that you that you trust and likes put that amounts to for everybody. Yeah. I mean, it's not it's not. Not rocket science as they say, easy, run consigned tests. Yeah. I got friends who are rocket scientists. But they really literally aren't it's very cool. But yeah, you know, I think in the environmental movement there's a little bit too much. You know, like twenty things you can do for the climate. And it's just this like grab bag of stuff that people can use to feel maybe less guilty yet. I think once you really know what are the big things. What small things you start prior prioritize on at kind of concede your emissions? Go down at you know, that you're doing everything you can for me at least there's like no I have no guilt about climate change anymore sentence frustrated by how little might up efforts. Are you don't wish they were more having more impact than they are? But at least I don't feel guilty. You know, and I think there's way too much climate guilt going around and the the prescription for it is so obvious. You know, just do something just you it recognizing that like a lot of folks can't dedicate their whole lives to to change as much as they need to any. What would you say is like the cross section there of the maybe the easiest thing? But the most impactful change that that that we can make right is there like a list of sort of three to five recognized that this is the point of your book, but you know, sort of again, what are the easy slash impactful things that people can do that are again applicable across geographies and Democrats bio tally gobbly, the mot-. The easiest thing that you can do that would have pretty significant impact is to eat less me and to and to waste less food. So don't don't ever throw food in a garbage because it'll go into landfill in terms of method. All right. So if you composted learns educated, chickens, or if you just, you know, try to reduce your food waste in other ways. That's that's pretty significant if you don't fly than probably another big one would be to drive less or to drive a more efficient vehicle or to get an electric vehicle in order to bike more so Titus O. So the average Americans biggest. Mission sources actually driving, and the reason the reason for that is because you know, most Americans don't fly in any given your like, it's really lying is really the domain for the for the not just the globally privileged, but even the privileged the kind of richer a slice of the US population. So there's a lot of people that that basically cow for to fly. So if you are a lot for whatever reason fail and definitely reducing that is going to be your biggest most impactful change at. I know I think the flying question is super interesting because people people are very attached. With me put it that way. It's really most efficient way to go three thousand miles or more. Well, it's the fastest way. I it's it's only the fastest way. And in with the expectations of society fossil fuel is kinda like juice that Knicks. Lot of noise makes us new around really fast. I think that. Combination makes us feel more stress. But it definitely sets expectations with our families with our employers. We're going to be able to fling ourselves halfway across the planet in a matter of dollars, which is just historically such anonymous thing, right? I mean, we we take innocence remarkable to me that will be taken for granted that we don't the people get an plane, and they're like, you know, like, there's not enough leg room. I mean, this is like this is the one of the great miracles of modernity right to be able to get. Yeah. And and we're paying for granted. We don't even appreciate a really, right. But when you start to give it up than it really could be bend makes you kinda question this whole dislike complex interface between what we think we need for what we think we want to know whether. Right there, isn't it. Right. Yeah. And and can we can we afford to take a few days to you go across the country versus doing it. In a matter. It's you hours. You know, that answer is usually yes, we can we might have to think a little bit of how to manage expectations of the people around us. And then we might think well, this is a very special thing then to travel across the country. So I'm may only gonna do once per year instead of many times for your the fine. Thank hits close to home for a lot of people which to me is that the ethics the use of fuel. The fact that a lot of people are really concerned about climate change is still flying as very interesting place to explore it. Yeah. Yeah. It can get pretty contentious. So what the book's been out for six months year almost something like that. What? Yeah. What you find is the most. This is a terrible word sticky action you've proposed what what really moves the needle with folks and gets acted upon. Well, the the most controversial has definitely the fine. Yeah. Wow. You know? It's funny. I get comments. So it's the books had more. I would say maybe more impact than I've expected because sometime able just out of the blue Email me, but it's it's usually different stuff. You know? I have people that are like, wow. You know, your book got me biking, and all I'm just biking everywhere in love it, which is fantastic. I get people saying like, you know, now, I'm eating not less meter trying vegetarianism. This is another kind of controversial in the book is that I actually say that meditation is a good and relevant practice for people that are concerned about climate change, right and talked exploited a big meditators to hear is on. Right. Well, you know, I'm not religious. I don't I'm not a member of any organized religion. But I like to meditate it takes for me at helps remove stress on a helps it makes it easier for me to like like earlier, I talked about that that barrier between doing in the moment. Doing the thing. You know, is is for your long term versus doing the thing that you kind of want to oddly level that you know, is not good for your long term like over overcome back, which is great for once long-term happiness. If you haven't Facific tool you use or platform you use or is it it. Yes, I do kind of meditation called the Pasha meditation. So it's people call it the. At a camp meditation boot camp, you learn it by going and doing a ten day silent retreat where he basically just do nothing. But. Proven meditate. Holiday long, and you know, I think of it as kind of like a training, maybe sort of like a Jedi training for your brain. Or you know, how pianists have to practice a couple of hours a day to stay in peak form. Our brains are kind of programs somehow to react, right? We when somebody does something crappy to us. We react some cuts us off on the road. We stick in the middle finger out the window. Right. That's a reaction. That's what I call like a blind reaction or somebody says something to you that you feel depressed than you role in the depression. Whatever it is we tend to react blindly. It's like a rollercoaster when something good happens begin on elated, something bad happens. We get all depressed. So we're just kinda like flying around in the right? Ri is like a leaf, right? I've rains weren't built for this incredibly distracting world, you know, and this reaction system in in. You know, a lot of ways is what kept us from being eaten by Tigers couple of hours ago. So that's great. But we need to recognize that we're not Bill for this. And like you said find tools to to slow that down and and make it a little more long-term thinking and go. Ahead when we roll in that those things like anger that depression were not happy. Right. So a great way to get happier is to kind of learn how to observe those things a little bit of detachment do like all right? So right, something bad happened to me. I feel like the depression wants to come out. But I'm just gonna watch that you know, kinda like observe anti with that. And then it made it doesn't stay as long or maybe channel after several years of meditating. Maybe it doesn't even come at. All like, wow, there's something that would have depressed the couple of years ago that doesn't depress. Our would've made me angry. Right doesn't mcnew angry now. And that's not so wonderful emotions are are bed. You're still gonna have have emotions, but I've been a big proponent for longtime in a us head space heads based platform, and it's just fantastic. You can get on the app store. There's another great one called calm. That's really great and head space kind of takes you into a different way. Which is you start? I think they give it to you for free the first ten days. A you do ten minutes at a time because you know, they always tell ya. It's very hard to start a habit by saying like on a workout for two hours today. You're not going to do that. You're not going to do it every day, but to build the habit and get you into it. But one of one of their key things with that in this is a little off topic. But I think it does apply like you were saying is one of their analogies is it's it's like sitting in watching cars going by a realizing you don't have to get on each and every one of them as far as your thoughts and description, and that you know, just taking that step back and watching him in. That's okay. And to watch him, but you don't have to get on alderman gopher that ride because that's how everybody feels every day, especially these days where the news every five fucking minutes is something else. That's that is if you if you're a human being in any form of Cassidy's gonna throw you for lupin make you fucking miserable or angry over that just flat out depressed. And like you said those emotions went when you're constantly feeling them those lead to shitty decisions. Exactly. And. Turns out those decisions have a pretty big impact. That's exactly right. And we can't since we can't we can't control the decisions outer people make we can control how we act we can control our decisions the meditation helps me with that immensely, but also them when other people do shady things it helps me not feel bad about that. I'm just gonna keep doing the best. I can with a smile, and you know, I can't control the decisions that other people make. But if I get depressed about what's happening on the national scene, or does that you know, so few people are acting on climate change. It's not gonna like help me be more effective. Right. And that's for me. That's what I'll it comes down to like, how can I be as effective in agent for collective change as I possibly can right set every day. I'm like asking myself that question and burning less fossil fuels still passes that test for me, you know, it's still a key part of what I do. So so sort of on that note, then as as an agent of change if you could mobilize. Everyone to the polls to to their seek counsel meetings to you know, wherever wherever the need to go to to get their message to their officials with one focused message one action point that would have the biggest impact what what would that be? And I mean, look again, the needs are different everywhere, affordability and geography and demographics of different everywhere. But again playing to talking to our audience progressive slash Democrats are just fucking horrific it messaging, so we're just trying to help you again, if you could focus everyone into one thing and saying like, if we do this one thing if you ask of your mayors in your city councils, this one thing demand one thing what would you choose to be in this next year? Right. It'll be a national carbon fee indebtedness. So this is through that for the next mega, right? So this is a lot of different arguments in a in sort of Aristotle fashioned arguments on this. Whether it's carbon tax regulations and such. I'd love to hear your perspective yet. Ultimately, I think we need to get to a point where we're not burning any fossil fuel, you know, there's other problems on the planet to or population resources water use which are related to overpopulation habitat loss, which is lighted also overpopulation, but right now, I think the urging thing we need to do is really ramped on or fossil to feel us right away. Also, are you know, methane emissions? So you could put a price on those greenhouse gases. So anytime like you took a certain amount of coal out of the ground or certain out of oil natural gas out of the ground. You would put an extra price on that. So that's the feed which is based on home carbon. How would admit doing it way upstream? So it's going to the entire economy. So it's gonna make like, you know, locally grown food relatively cheaper compared to food that shipped in from far away. Right or for food that's grown with less nitrogen fertilizer, get cheaper, relative escrow with a lot of electric cars will start to become more attractive renewable energy will start to become cheaper relatives have also feel so all of these systematic systems level changes that we need would start to come together. All of them would be pushed at this very fundamental level by making that fossil fuel more expensive. Right. And of course, that's going to cause a gallon of gasoline to be a little more expensive too. So you give you collect all for some folks. Right. So you collect all that money instead of using it for this politicians project or that politicians project in having these endless fights over that pot of money. You just give it back to everybody as equal dividend are very, very simple. And then every year it gets more and more expensive. Right. So I'm you started some way to to to pay for sort of a baby version of Unum. Universal basic income will. Yeah, I think it could sort of turn into that. At least until we start to really get away for bustle chose the point is eventually it would all go away when they were burning fossil fuel anymore. But I think you could could actually contribute to some kind of basic income in the sense that it will deliver a little experiment. And then if we like it how goes than we would learn a lot that that we could apply. Hello relearn. The other interesting thing about this policy is unique to have adjustments at the border to keep fossil fuel intensive on. Industry's from just leaving the country going somewhere else that including freely. So so you, you know, if you're deporting some fossil fuel intensive good from somewhere else that doesn't have a similar like a carton price at the same level. You would add tariffs to that. Right. So that you will do in even Plainfield interesting thing is this would actually incur as a international action. Because these other countries would very quickly realize that they could give that that money for the carbon price getting it to us essentially, so that they could not access to our market, whereas they had their own domestic carbon price. They will keep that money in their borders. And so pretty quickly they'd realize why are we paying me Americans? Will we could just keep that? So they quickly put their own carpet price. So we've really struggled at the international level to deal with this was kind of like United Nations diplomacy stop. It has not been you know, the Kyoto protocol. In the nineties. Right. It just has how many more decades we need to keep trying same old stuff before we realized that it's not worse because it's not it's not working. But this is a path that could actually lead to real action at the international level. So should I don't think I wanted to say that because I don't think very many people realize that. But if you sit down and think about it really carefully start learning about it. You can join citizens climate Lodhi group on a lot of great resources online, which will walk you through. All the gory. Details of this. It really is an amazing policy. It's not the last step that we need to take a climate change by definitely think it's the most sensible thing we could do now, and there's potential to be supported both on the left and right sides of the political spectrum. Yeah. So. I love it. All right. We are getting a little close to time here. Peter. Thank you so much for your time today and having a talk with us for writing a book. And living living what you're talking about instead of just exactly gabbing sweat. So all right. So let's summarize what our listeners and sort of action minded folks in general can do to take action per Peter Kalmus, easiest slash most impactful things are eat less meat in throwaway, less food. If you've never thought about composting before actually awesome. Yes, it's smelly. But it's really cool in your kids will love it. We did it home and Superfund. I'm sure you can go on wire cutters something and find the best composter. They've always got stuff like that. Even if you live in an apartment in New York, there's a way to do it. And there's a way to again, not put your food in to. Hi, all somewhere that will turn into methane, which is that bad news number two again, less flying. It's it's contentious. It's complicated. We understand. But it does make a difference less driving. If at all possible. Of course, that's complicated. You got the driver on car pooling, but do carpooling, you know, if you can try to bike where you can win. It's just the other transportation anything you can cut down. Brian stop writing your motorcycle. Anyway, everybody number three is is push for carbon fee wherever you can make that your difference. It again, I feel like through the scope of our conversations with folks, Progressive Conservatives anybody that is willing and is is working to take action. This has been a thing that has stuck out the most because yes, it will punish these companies. But the money can be returned to folks in in some way, which is the seems to be one of a larger sticking points, but it can do things like build a new economy can build new incentives for. For people to to use clean energies into produce clean energies. As of our desks of it out right now, there's there's no real business incentive aside from saving money, which has made a lot of businesses. Start us clean energy, but to develop new technologies around these things, and if you start to do that and you make it Evan Teijin for them. That's where we might see really awesome systematic change as well as starting to cut down the emissions ourselves, and possibly even at the international level, which is really really exciting potentially. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, we are. We are all connected. Yes. We are. All right. Brian hit him with the lightning round here. Yeah. Yeah. We like to end these things with a few quick questions. If you don't mind, okay show, go into those spaces righteous do the free association, you know? Jacqueline, exactly relaxed. Right. Just go with him in these reasons. No pressure Hey, how do you consume the news? However, like consume the news hot, you know, I joined Twitter like on about six months ago to kinda like help Regina about the book. So so lot of like the stuff that really interesting people put something about some article at some rope. And if it looks really interesting yawn a door there. We also get a. This may be a little weird for someone who's really trying to reduce his layered him footprint, but we get the prince New York Times at our house monster. Yeah. On the news man, he pay for journalism. It makes a difference. If you could Amazon prime one book to Donald Trump. Oh, it'd be can't be mine. Yeah. You're. Be really weird. If if if he decided he ate at my book as started tweeting about it. It would make me the happiest per cent being Boris tastic from what I can tell your book is full of fake news. I want somebody to you know, like fly over the White House drop, you know, hundred hobbies. Figure that out. All right. And last time this is kind of a new one hoop somebody in your life that positively impacted your work in this in the past six months. I am going to go with Catherine Heyhoe yet. No. She is on every one of our parting utterly getting her schedule. Wow. She's a fellow climate scientists, and she's just so good at reaching out to people in it's really compassionate, attentive way and kind of like meeting them on their grounds and sort of winning hearts and minds. So really, you know, I I looked to her for how to do that messaging more effectively as he's been super supportive of me to over the last six months, she really likes the book, and she she like nominee to one of the GRIs fifty stuff. So Cassie get to get sort of, you know, call it out by but one of my personal heroes has been deeply meaningful for me too. Few bad. That's so great. Hey, Peter, working working everybody follow you online now that you've joined the cesspool list. Yeah. Yes. So it's not it's climate human on Twitter again subtle. Yeah. Direct approach, right? Yes. Go for man. And and the book is being the change live, well and spark a climate revolution. And find that wherever you buy books, folks. I guess Amazon sports local bookstore, right? We did it. Peter anything else? You wanna say any last notes truth power? You wanna put out there to our listeners? Yeah. Just, you know, don't don't get discouraged. Don't get don't despair whatever has going to happen in the future. We don't know. What that is. The knows this how how far time change is gonna go bad things. We're gonna get. But you know, if you do everything it can do it creatively. Sort of explore this fairly deep level. I think that you'll out of people people that I know were on a similar pats have also found that it makes her lies more satisfying. You know, it takes away the takes away the despair. So, you know, I'd love to hear from you listeners about the things that they've tried that they like because I think we're we're all in this together. And if we learn from each other about what works for for this person for snappers. Awesome awesome. There's just wanna say real quick. There was I was sort of a sort of an asshole in high school VO. There are a few things that stuck with me. And you're living one of them in a one of my favorite. Teachers had told had told our class one time. That you let you can't let the like that idea that you are just one person. And none of your actions will have an effect crush you. Or stop you from doing anything. Because if if that's how everybody thinks then that's exactly what will happen is nothing will change. But if you realize that you really can make a difference then and everybody does then big things happen in the world. Thanks for like lit like. I said before just doing what you're fucking saying. There's no reason to wait, right? We take the bull by ourselves. Just do it. Feels really good. I love it. And this is great. This has been a very philosophical for Brian. I'm really join us. Thanks, peter. Thank you so much man for all that you do out there JPL and with your book against confer yourself, but doing it strongly ineffectively and in a very practical way being a leader on the stuff, man. And thanks for coming on. We really appreciate the time. Very much. Yeah. Really enjoyed it. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah. You too. Thanks to our incredible guest today, and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome, workout or dishwashing or fucking toll walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder, please subscribe to our free Email newsletter at important, not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species, and you can follow us all over the internet. You can find us on Twitter at important, not IMP. So weird also on Facebook and Instagram at important, not important Pinterest. And tumbler the same thing. So check us out. Follow us share us life, as you know, the deal, and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts, keep the lights on. Thanks, please. And you can find the show notes from today. Right in your little podcast player and at our website important, not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our jam and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guys.

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#44: Is Food Waste the Stupidest Thing We Do (& How Do We Cut it in Half)?

Important, Not Important

59:16 min | 2 years ago

#44: Is Food Waste the Stupidest Thing We Do (& How Do We Cut it in Half)?

"Welcome to important, not important. My name is Quinn Emmett. And my name is Brian Calvert Kennedy. Who is that look now he just enjoyed it. Very interesting. I just sometimes it change it up. If this is episode forty four in our topic today. Brian, hey, food waste is definitely special even more. So after this interview conversation, whatever they are the stupidest fucking thing we did area dumb as as people. How do we cut in half? Alternate title, alternate tire. I'm pretty excited. Avocado toast is about to go off sun. And it's already it's been off. It's been off. And then people were like, I'm tired of it. Right. It's enough. It's very simple. I can make it at home. And yet, let me tell you Brian. You have no idea. No idea. No idea. You had no idea. I'm pretty excited. This is a really good. Really good conversation. Mind-blowing episodes guests yet, and I'm pretty pumped for everybody here. Yeah. I hope that most people are like me and don't have never heard of this. So that when they listen to this. They're just like what the fuck. That's the goal. That was today's goal. Our guest is Dr James Rogers. He's a founder and CEO of appeal sciences. He's worked on solar paint and medals and at the Lawrence, Berkeley, national lab, and I just thought this is a hell of a lesson in putting down your God damn phone and letting crazy ideas, marinade and your brain. Yep. Unobstructed. He wasn't Metallurgist. Yep. Sure. We'll word. Yeah. Unless they have it to this thing. And what is that thing? But his appeal sciences. Yeah, you're going to have to listen to find out because I'm not going to spoil it for you. Dizzy. Busy day where you did. We'll see what you did. It's because it's science. Yeah. That was really good Brockton roll. Let's go talk to to Jane. That's it. Okay. Our guest today is James Rogers and together we're going to discuss food waste is the stupidest thing we did. How do we cut it in half? At least James welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me here. Yeah. For sure way, we're pump to have your brother. So let's start by just just tell us who you are in what you do creek merge. Short version, James Rogers, and the CEO of appeal sciences Santa Barbara, California based company that develops plant based technologies that extend the shelf life of fresh produce fascinating. I think that's version. Yeah. No. I really like the short version. Don't worry. We're going to get into the longer one for sure shelf-life of fresh produce. What's fun is? We changed our format a little while ago to the point right? Don't give Brian outlines time so fast, he gets to pretend the audience who's like texting and driving or sitting on the subway sitting there going like what the hell did they just say extent of what? So that's Brian rolled Superfund for me. At least perfect. This is very interesting for me. I buy fresh produce. I don't know when the fuck I have to throw it out or how long and also I pay way too much attention. I'm sure to what the little stamp on all the other food. I buy says about when I can eat this one. I can this fall. So I'm pumped awesome. So James like we sort of said before we started recording. We're just gonna go over, you know, a little context with you let the audience know a little bit of what's going on. And then we're going to ask some questions because we we want to our listeners to come away with this knowing that they can do something to help because it's it's not enough to just listen to something. And then forget about it. And indeed they can so excited to get there. So James, we do start with one important question to sort of set the tone of things instead of saying tell us your whole life story is interesting as I'm sure that is we like to ask. Hey, james. Why are you? Why are you vital to the survival of the species? Oh, man. I wish we had a couple of years before answering. We we do need to start doing that. I also need to cut just like a compilation track of people laughing, and may, but we actually got great answer. So I encourage you to be bold, and honest, you're you're you're here for a reason, man. Well, I'd say if I put on my my narcissist hat, I would see that probably here to deliver more food more people at lower costs. So the big bold statement would be here to help solve world hunger. Sounds kind of crazy to say out loud yet. That's that's not a bad goal. Brian. Right today in big right with my goal today. Yeah. What's your goal? I wanna learn from this conversation. How long like I want to know the appro the perfect time to have an avocado. I'm having a lot of KADO issues. I don't know when it's too early. And then when it's too late. It up and I throw it in the trash, and it sucks. I don't want to do that. Yeah. This is. This is good for you. Yeah. Very all. Right. So yeah, we're going to set up a little context. James, correct us tell me where we're wrong, or you know, hang up runaway. Whatever works for you. Again. There's some stats here. I think they're pretty accurate. Let's see what's going on food waste Americans to no one surprise are are the worst or the best. I guess had depending on how you're looking at. We waste about one hundred sixty five billion dollars of food year number one in the world. Almost forty percent of the food produced in the US is never eat. So, and I believe that if you make a plate dinner, and you move half of it to one side and then move a tiny bit back. And then you just throw out the smaller yet if you do that for every meal, then that's basically what we're what we're doing the fish person. Right. You're the average you're the average. It's a little unfair to people because some of those losses are happening in the supply chain on the way, get you. So it's more on the on the, you know, people at home side is more like a quarter of their plate probably on it. And it's going to happen at the grocery store and trucks on the on the way to those stores, but still you know, a quarter quarter that plate it's not grain trashes kind of a tragedy tragedy tragedy. Travel tragedy. James? Yeah, we'll take them. And you write some of the ways I mean, some of it starts on on farms, and Brian you might ask why I am as to how that how that's happening. Sure. Overproduction? Why do we have overproduction to hedge against pests for bad weather quick note? Weather's changing a lot. That's fun. Because the crop doesn't meet a store and consumer cosmetic standards, which I James was just alluding to a little bit. Yeah. It sounds pretty enough. Which is a problem that I know we have all the time. Def definitely that definitely happening. You know, you walk in a grocery store, and you are looking for that perfectly shape in perfectly colored, you know, that right sized piece of fruit. It's not meeting those specifications than it's getting normally cold out in the manufacturing processes, not necessarily that that food is going completely to waste normally going towards a much lower value product. So it's going to go to juice. It's going to go to canned it's going to go to frozen. So it's not necessarily be completely wasted. But it's certainly not capturing the full economic potential that it that it would have had had it been beautiful SO to speak, sir. Have you heard of this company imperfect produce, yeah? Yeah. Absolutely on this. These guys are trying to address that issue as you know, reducing economic capture or reduce. Economic capture opportunity by basically making a marketplace for producer doesn't meet class Preto specifications against the important part of the solution. He I want I've just heard of the recently. And I I don't know how new it is or how. Well, it's doing. But it seems like a really good idea. Hopefully, hopefully that can can make an impact I certainly I mean the thing is the the magnitude of the problem here is so big yet. Anything is going to make an impact. Sure awesome. Another reason was wasted. Because of our stupid fucking immigration laws. There aren't enough people actually work the crop. Which is great. That's that's a really sad. When you know, you you put all the time and energy into producing this fruit. And you know, one of the characteristics of fresh produce is that it's, you know, seasonal an perishable. Right. What that means is if you're growing fruit in a region, and the weather gets warm, and all of a sudden, it's harvest time all your neighbors have the same issue. It's harvest time as well. And so you start competing for labor to the point where you actually can't afford to to pick the field because you know, there's going to be so much fruit on the market at the same time. The price is going to be depressed in just doesn't make sense to actually go do the harvest when you're gonna get low prices. And so just sits there in the fielding and goes to waste. It's it's shovel. Okay. And then of course, some of the waste happens at the supermarket level. As you alluded to we've talked about a little bit here about forty three billion pounds of food wasted again task overstock cosmetic shitty displays and as Brian mentioned with the stamp. Go ahead. Please. No. I mean, I would I would I would say that the reason that so so if you look at it, and you break down where the losses are happening in the supply chain like we've just been talking about. Yeah. You know, a a significant but relatively marginal contribution to those losses is during transportation emerging Asian during transport. So the after your after you've picked it you sort sorted out. The, you know, the ugly fruit you packed at your shipping. It, you know, maybe it's going on ocean container was filling a truck. You know, you're losing. Maybe three percent depends on the industry know that that is significant given you know, how much food we're growing but relatively marginal compared to. What's happening with the losses? You know when the fruit is on the store shelf and then very marginal. When compared to what's happening into people's homes, but the reason for that is actually we've you know as a species done quite well at developing technologies, which preserve produce from from picking and packing to the arrival at the store shelf. The problem is that technology, which we've relied on to accomplish that has been refrigeration and refrigeration works. Really? Well, when you're able to precisely control the storage environment for the fruit. So when it's in a truck when it's in shipping container. Great. You know, you're able to split on the right? The clock is ticking on that fruit by about a factor of four or five. The problem is is that those optimal storage conditions for the produce are exactly at odds with the optimum merchandising condition. So you Ryan a grocery store, you don't put on a parka and a respirator onto a back room and pick up pick out your fruit. Right. It's an big. Display shiny, comfortable store environment. Well, lit ambient conditions that are inviting you to pick up produce to see it touch. It feel it put it put, you know, hopefully, back into your basket. And so that because those merchandising conditions are exactly the opposite of the optimal storage conditions. That's you end up having a tremendous amount of retail spoilage retail shrink as it's called in the industry because you're again, balancing, the need to have something people want to buy with the the desire to reduce the perishability that that fruit. And that's why you you end up seeing so much waste at the retail level. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's crazy. That's very helpful. Thank you. So and then let's talk about the last two here, which is restaurants. They say about ten percent of their food is wasted before it even reaches the customer, which doesn't even include the hugely oversized. Portions Americans don't finish. And then at home as you said. Four throws away about twenty five percent of the food. They buy about two thousand dollars a year. You know, as terrible as it is though it's worth remembering Americans, regardless of status are magnitudes better off the most folks in developing countries. So I it's really very sad. But the end, of course, the best news of taking a slight pivot is food waste is also major contributor to two emissions because methane comes from food waste methane is about ten times as troublesome potent as as as as carbon it is a nightmare. So and of course, the lesson is to to water the the resources we used to grow this food are really incredible the irrigation used to grow food. That's thrown away. Could meet the domestic water needs of nine billion people. Oh, yeah. I mean, you were using eighty percent of her freshwater roughly to irrigate agriculture eighty percent of freshwater eighty percent. And you know, there's wars being fought over. Her water. So yeah. And you think about exactly so you think about when we think about the, you know, the statistics forty percent of food going away factories in eighty percent of our fresh water to irrigate and you're throwing forty percent of it away. We'll watch the fastest way to more water is to throw away less food. Yeah. Absolutely. And those water issues are going to get worse as we're. We're here in Los Angeles. We'll we're going to add a couple of billion more people too. So it's not like the conditions. Are staying the same. You know, the the true treadmills moving faster and faster, bright and places like Los Angeles, which already should not exist or. Right and fighting in the water worse. So. Oh, they're all. You know, all these are just, you know, pieces of the challenge, you know, on the, you know, in the food service side of things, you know, foods foods get thrown away. Because now there are certain items that we have trained people to to like into not like, and, you know, all although most of the most of the pieces of the fruit are entirely edible. We people have just, you know, the only know about certain, you know, oh will only the artichoke cart part is delicious part. So we're trying is the rest to it's just it's a little bit. You know, the philosophy of, you know, the US citizens versus in eight Americans right in Turkey's, you know, use the whole animal, and you know, we just we just use the the white meat, you know, so. You know, a big cultural element to that. You know, there's there's a lot. I think there's a lot of movement in this area. Particularly recently in food service, you know around. Hey, should we really be building? Should we be writing a menu? And then sourcing the products to make those menu items or sweet flip that around and find out what's available, and then what can we make from those items of different philosophy? So, you know, there's there's there's there's major chefs are getting behind this, Dan barber's one of those guys he is he's leading the charge. Upstream to dine at his restaurants in New York City. That's the entire idea. There's there's no menu. Whatever they've they've harvested from the farm that day, they're going to turn into a medley of the different items in their focused on turning ingredients into menu items and not, you know, not figuring out menus, and then sourcing the ingredients because that's that's how you get all that waste yet. I love how candid and transparent. He has been on that throughout the years. I I really loved his book the third plate third play and talk about a way just to cut through a lot of the jargon. And just get straight straight down to it. I think that he just didn't excellent job in that book making it an approachable subject to pretty much anybody. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. Real quick. When you said, you can't wait to see me in the water wars was that some sort of institution that I would be not a good warrior. Have you been listening? All right. No. You've been marking out a lot. And I said have you done any cardio and you just had a blank stare and feels like you can find if you're standing still. But after that question answered thank you. All right. So look clearly he really is free. A lot of complicated reasons. It is the stupidest thing we do. So, you know, James, let's back up just for minute. And I don't know how well-versed you are in this. But it probably not better than us. Was it always this bad? At least let's just focus on the US. Now, didn't we rationed food like crazy during World War Two? You know, was it the growth of these supermarkets and suburbia and the focus on cosmetics that got us here. You know, what is being? Oh, man. That's a really really good question. You know, I can't speak as a fruit historian yet. Although this question may prompt me to go. Learn learn a lot more we can pause. If you want to read into something from media what I what I am familiar with. You know, what what is kind of happened has been we we got really good. So let's maybe take as an example, the difference between a food supply chain in the United States and the food supply chain in a place like sub Saharan Africa. So if you look at the spoilage rates in the United States, you know, estimates are somewhere between a third and a half. Forty percent is probably the most commonly reported number. If you look at those numbers in developing countries. So, you know, think Kenya? Think Nigeria the other places in southern Africa southeast Asia. Those those losses are upwards of eighty to ninety percent. Yeah. Yeah. And the reason for that is going back to my example, earlier we have developed techniques effectively refrigeration which has allowed us to reduce the perishability of fresh produce by about a factor of four or five and in so doing it has allowed us to to grow more produce and get it to more places. So you it's allowing us to, you know, get a supply chain, which is making produce reach more people. But because it's allowing us to reach more people. It's allowed the growers to really focus on just growing their production volume and not necessarily worry so much about the efficiency of that supply chain has they're able to grow their business by growing their distribution because with reduced perishability the fruit they can get it to more places they can export it. They can get it all the way across the country. If you're a small farmer in in southern. Africa. And you you might be growing it on your farm. But if if because you don't have a refrigerated supply chain, it can only get one or two days away. You know, you're extremely focused on on officiency. And I might argue that, you know, the as we have developed we've probably been we reduced losses for sure because we now have refrigeration, but we're at a point where you know. Okay. We've figured out how to do how to get some distribution. But now we need to figure out how to do it more efficiently. I think that makes a lot of sense as it becomes easier. We we definitely become a little less. We meaning if people doing that growing become a little less focused on the efficiencies. Yeah. They just wanna you just wanna go your volume, and yeah, I like in this sometimes too, you know, look at some of the, you know, new value creation opportunities in the economy like thinking about the sharing economy. What what does that mean? We'll basically means that we were able to produce so much that now, you know, you got the growth originally from selling a bunch of units. And now there's new growth available by sharing some of those units amongst people so is a little Paik. But like, you know, think about Airbnb you've got a bunch of, you know, underutilized assets, basically people's homes when people aren't in there. And now you see the growth of Airbnb, which is a way to get to get more people in those beds. So you can earn some economic rent from that underutilized asset, right? Same uber. Right. You had a bunch of cars. Driving around punch. Empty seats over said, we'll oh that's underutilized asset. There's already been ours out there. How do we get more economic value? From the seats food way says the same thing, you know, we've got a bunch of food out there. But we're throwing away a lot of it. If we can reduce how much of it. We're throwing away. There's economic value created in doing that. Saturday smart. All right. And then we were also talking about, you know, how the cosmetic issues come into play. And then how that really makes a lot of this food go to waste, what are you guys doing at appeal to to you know, help that you give us the short version. Let's let's hear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the the level is that you know, solving the aesthetic issue for fresh produce at least with the current food culture. That's that's table stakes. You have your the previous has to maintain good aesthetic quality because at the end of the day. The aesthetic is what drives that purchase decision. Now, there's the second moment of truth, which is when you get the food home and you consume it, but what's originally driving? That purchase decision is the aesthetic value of the produce end van second moment of truth is really around the eating quality of the firm. But if you don't have good aesthetics than you, don't even get that second moment of truth. To happen. And so what we do at appeal is that we developed plant derived formulations that are powder. So think of like a brick of flour we ship to where we want to use. It was just generally add a packing facility, and we mix it with water. And then we spray that solution onto the surface of fresh produce as being packed, and we let it dry, and when it dries it leaves behind this imperceptibly thin barrier of plant material on the outside of the surface. He can't see it. You can't taste it. You can't feel it. But by precisely controlling the composition that barrier were able to independently modulate the rate that water in CO to escape from the produce relative to the rate that oxygen gets in. And so by doing that is the fruit continues to breathe in responder as it's moving through the supply chain, we build up this optimized little micro-climate inside each individual piece of produce. And that little micro-climate. Allows the produce to survive to three or four times longer even without the use of refrigeration. And so this like -nology. We as grisly on this. Because I I knew what you guys are in. This is the whole fun of not sharing these things watching his face as you described that which was generally just like what the fuck Spanta. That was great. Thank you. Good for me to has got to be some negative effects. It's shocking. There are no negative effects from doing this. When I think about it. This way plans have been around for billions of years and during that period of time the the oxygen concentration on this planet has fluctuated wildly. Now, it's been been as high as almost all of it as low as none and plants advantage survive under all of those conditions, and so they they are happily. They're happy to live in whatever EON that were existing on this planet and actually the rate of maturation of fruit, you know, in in different time. Periods was much slower because ambient oxygen concentrations were were lower. We just happened to be alive at a time when oxygen concentrations are about twenty and a half percent, but most fruit will happily develop back, you know, oxygen concentrations below four percent. And when when you do that the fruit will. Will live health just as healthy just just for much longer. And so what we're doing is by creating his barrier on the outside of the produce. It's almost like we're just telling the produce. Hey developed like it was you know, develop it like it was the draft period. You know, and I it just ends up lasting for much much longer member. When I was like, hey, tell us about the history of food waste James's like I'm not. I'm not really a fruit history actually plants in the dress current. You guys want you my favorite fruit. Historian fact is Dina what's. So all all basically, you know, the reason that fruit is fruit is because it is designed to attract animals that eat the fruit. And then ultimately spread the seeds rent 'em. It's like a man help helps the plant spread. So every fruit you can track back to like an animal that really helped it kind of get disseminated around the world. You know, the the animal that helped disseminates the avocado. No, no. I can't. I'm so excited. It was the giant sloth? Yeah. Yeah. You gotta you gotta Google this thing. But basically, you know, before people killed them all in the you know in the Americas. There were these giant Slavs, and you know, think like size of like a mastodon kinda deal. China's fun. They would walk around eating avocados and spreading the seeds. So we can thank our giant sloth friends for the pro avocado today. Yeah. We can all the giants loss. Everybody. They did was they had they had to have been delicious. I mean, they're feeding off avocados assurance amazing. Sorry, fun fruit fag. Hey, it's Brian. I have a quick favor. While Quinn is writing his new list of reasons why I should get rid of my motorcycle every podcast. You listen to ask you for a ratings in review on apple podcast. Right. Here's why not everybody listens on apple podcasts. Like, you might not be doing right now. But seventy percent of our listeners and most podcast listeners are on apple podcasts and the top charts. So huge source of even more new listeners. So here's the deal some weird combination of downloads in readings and reviews and probably other something I don't understand drives those charts up, and we want to be on those top charts. So we need your help. If you are listening on apple podcast, right? This second. It's really easy. It'll take five seconds. Just do it. All right. You're staring at the episode screen swipe. But he swipe all the way down down at the bottom hit the library button. Tap our show, then scroll down to ratings and reviews and do the star part. There's five stars hit as many as you want five probably do it. Now. I'll wait. Hey, great. Thanks so much. So nice of you. Okay. Let's get back to the episode. Is there produce that? This doesn't work on or apply to you. All produce spoils through the same mechanisms all pretty spoils because water evaporates out of the surface and because oxygen gets in. So by creating a barrier on the outside of the product that slows that process down you can extend the shelf life of any fruit. Or vegetable it's it's frankly a remarkable being that is just insane. That makes it sound pretty easy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let let's just back up a second. Like, how did this come to be? You know, where did you where did you get started? How how did you even know to? How did you figure this out, basically? Yeah. Well, the short answer that question is figure this out with you know, team of one hundred twenty people on our team here about two thirds of those scientists and engineers in. So we've taken people from incredibly diverse background different fields chemistry chemical, engineering material science, biochemistry, mechanical engineering, electrical engineering in pulled everyone in ask them to take all of those skills in focus them, specifically on this issue of reducing the perishability fresh produce in that's led this what what we like to think of as, you know, some clever solutions to the problem, the impetus for the idea, however was while I was doing my PHD at UC Santa Barbara, which is why we're still located in Santa Barbara. I was studying these flexible, plastic solar panels. So the. The idea was you could mix up a solar paint. You could use it to paint, you know, the side of a house or rooftop, or what what have you in then collect solar energy from that paint? And I thought why would you know, if we can develop that that's going to democratize access to solar power, which is going to change the way that you know, the the world works. So I spent about six and a half years of my life trying to understand why it was that some paints worked in some paints didn't work and to do that. I used to make the paints in Santa Barbara. And then I'd have to drive up to Lawrence Berkeley national lab because I was literally watching paint dry and to make hands interesting. Yeah. And it's sad to miss interesting. You you have to use really fancy equipment because if you look at just the surface in nothing's happening. But if you use fancy microscopes, you can pure inside and see what's happening at the molecular level. And so I was spending my time trying to understand why some of these paints works why some din and a one of these drives to go up to the the laboratory I was looking. I was listening to a podcast like we're like we're having today and was reminded that one in nine people on the planet. We're going hungry. And at the time, I didn't realize it, but I was driving through the Salinas valley, and I'm looking around and basically as far as I can see are these lush green fields, and you know, my naive. You know, thought, you know, never having grown any food was. How's it possible that one in nine people on this planet are going hungry when we have these magical seeds that we can put into the ground? They're gonna absorb water absorbs sunlight produce food, and by the way, they're going to self propagate. How is it possible that we're screwing this up so badly that people are going hungry. And so I I got curious I looked into it. And when I looked into it I quickly found out that people weren't going hungry because we couldn't produce enough food. It was because you know, we we couldn't get it to the people who needed it. So I don't know if growing up your parents said the same thing, you know, you finish your food. You know, there's people's people starving. I already lecture my. Children. And it's like it's like it's like we'll that is. That is true. You should have your food because people are starving. But it's not because there's not they're not starving because you know, there's not enough food for them starving because you getting it to them is is really challenging because the spoils. And so the way you saw. So I was curious in. Okay. Well, what if the reason isn't that? We're if the reason people are going hungry isn't because we can't Preussen food is because we can't get it to them. Why can't we get it to them? And I looked into it. And it was all related to produce spoiling. Basically, you pick the piece of produce than it had a finite time timeframe over which she could deliver it. And so I got a little more curious than said. All right. Well, why does it spoil? What causes it despoil in in quickly turned up that the leading causes a pretty spoilage our water loss and oxidation which means water Evaporating out of the produce oxygen getting in. And as soon as I heard that it reminded me of my undergraduate. Days at Carnegie Mellon where I was Metallurgist. And we studied steel and people don't think about it. But steel is actually highly perishable it reacts with oxygen in the atmosphere. That went does that if forms rust or iron oxide eats through down into the steel, and that was Intel meddler just figured out this really clever track that you could incorporate small numbers of sacrificial atoms into that chunk of steel things like molybdenum, chromium, nickel, etc. Yeah. Sure. And we. When you did that those elements would react with oxygen in the atmosphere to fund this little oxide barrier around the outside of the steel and that little barrier would physically block more oxygen from reaching that surface and in so doing they invented stainless steel and that opened up all kinds of new applications for steel. And so the fought I had was well, all right. If people are going hungry because of perishability in perishability is caused by water Evaporating out in oxygen going in and steal was perishable because an oxygen going in. But we created this little barrier around the outside of it in that that prevented perishability could we put a little barrier around the outside of fresh produce. That would slow down water going out an oxygen going in hopefully impact the pressure ability problem may maybe making bent in the world hunger issue. So that was kinda Genesis of the whole thing. You know, I I drove back to Santa Barbara pretty excited told my friends about him if anyone's ever been to Santa Barbara cannon notes a surf town temple friends about. And they said, yeah, bro. Sounds like a good. Yeah. But we don't want. We don't want. We don't wanna eat any chemicals. And I was like damn it. You know? Sure. That's that's kind of a it's it's a great comment. But it's the frustrating thing to hear as a scientist, because of course waters a chemical heir, man. And it's like, well, wait a minute food is a chemical. So what if we just relegated ourselves to only using those molecules that were found in high concentrations in the fruits and vegetables that we ate every day to make these barriers then we'd be using food to preserve food and philosophically that seems like something that would be really hard to argue with Brian. So that was the Genesis of the whole thing about seven years ago. Now, I finished up my PHD in started the company, I'm really formally about four and a half years ago. And now, you can go to Costco, Kroger and harps in by appeal MacOS last twice as long in your home. Okay. Great. That's a perfect segue into what I just wanted to ask the next is like so you're at so you are clearly in some. Yeah. I think if you go to our webpage just appeal dot com at the bottom of the page, you can enter your zip code and a little map will pop up and show you where the curious things are is everything seemed like it's on the up and up. Like, here's my thought is how come every person and company who has a piece of fruit that they're trying to sell doesn't have your shit on their fruit. Like, it sound his plan that would save everybody money feed more people. But before before the end of next year, you should be able to walk into any grocery store in the United States in pick. He'll fruits and vegetables incidents happening as we speak. So it's fun to fund a catchy is right now. You know, we we over the last four and a half years of funding. You know, we've spent the last four and a half years in forty million dollars developing this technology, and we just introduced it onto store shelves five months ago. And so the know retail programs that we've announced so far are with harps, which is a grocer in the midwest. Sam with with Costco, also now with with Kroger. Largest national retailer and the programs are just going exceptionally. Well, I'm in we're adding new folks every day, so. Yeah. You know, it's fun. This feels like I'm kinda the the early part of the wave before people have an option to go into their stores and get something that's gonna be better tasting longer-lasting more nutritious in less likely to throw in their homes. So is it the same process for every piece of fruit is at the same application? I am curious. Is it just like, hey. Yeah. Now, we can do don't every piece of fruit or a house. Great great question in that is that that that advocation process is was getting our introduction of new product categories. Gotcha. So we we have largely solve the puzzle of what formulations are necessary for what fruits and vegetables and our rate of introduction of those formulations is now gated by do we have an application system capable of treating those those produce category. So something that can avocado makes sense for first product because that fruit is going to be picked into been in the field. It's can be brought into the packing facility where it's going to get size, sorted graded. He know they're gonna pick on all the quote, unquote, ugly fruit, and then they're going to box it up in shipping out. And so we have a piece of application equipment. We slot right into that convenience system Amrou able to treat the produce. And it goes on. It's Mary way. Now. Right off the farm right off the farm. Yeah. As soon as possible. So the principle of aren't technologies we don't make the fruit any better than it starts. We just maintain that harvested quality for longer. Avoid all the GM ocean. Yeah. We don't have to deal with you know, we don't have to do anything regarding genetic modification to produce were literally taking molecules from inside the produce that you would be eating and we're employing them to the surface of the produce to create this invisible barrier made out of food. That's so fascinating. All right. So now, it's you you you have the he the applications figured out free food. But but now, you're you like you said the gates are are the actual the processes. Yes. Yeah. Just curious like the through the conclusion avocados right in conveyor belt, easy to implement term strawberry, strawberries, people don't know this. But you know, they're picked in the field directly into that clam shell on their never touched again toll. They get to your home for us to. Yeah. Yes. In for us to apply product in that process. We actually have to add a step, and that's not not a popular thing to do. Right. You've got to work with either, you know, suppliers who are growing strawberries in different ways or looking at robotic harvesting center on. So that's why you know, some of those introductions are gonna take longer because you know, to imply product is going to be an additional step in their harvest practices, which is just, you know, you don't wanna add operational complexity that off, and so you gotta just, you know, pick pick the right timing and work with rent partners. So that you're able to implement into a into a supply chain, which which makes sense. So does it some point? And I'm not sure exactly how how the business works in feel free to not go into it. If you don't want to. But I'm curious does does this scale down to small farmers. Farmers market type farmers at some point. How is that available m super happy you asked that actually get that's actually how we got into this in the first place was with a grant from the Bill Gates foundation in the idea was going back to the numbers. I Senator earlier, okay? Fine releasing between a third and a half here in the United States. That's tragic. Don't open countries losing eighty ninety percent of what they're growing and the reason for that being they don't have the sophisticated refrigerant supply chain that we operate in route to reduce those losses. And so, you know refrigeration works by basically slowing down. You know, thermodynamic Lee slowing down the rate that the clock is ticking inside the fruit, and what appeal is is an alternative way to do that which is to slow down the rate that oxygen is getting into the fruit because oxygen is the rate limiting reagents in the fruit development process. So by physically slowing down you're able to make the fruit last longer without refrigeration, and that's great for place in the world don't have refrigeration installed. And so we actually have developed versions of our formulations that we distribute and things that look like you think about like a little sugar pouch we distribute that powder a small farmer boils water. They mix the powder in Linda cool than than dip their mango into that little dry and now the last week long. And that yet. This was funny. I love the the magic analogy because you know, the magician all the hard work goes in behind the scenes preparing for the track measure, and then what you see on stage looks like magic. And I really do think that's a lot like appeal because you know, because you can't see taste feel that the, you know, the plant based perio- that we're applying to the surface you'd see in a leave to on your counter and one of them's still there fifteen weeks later, and the other one's in puddle on the counter it looks like magic. But all the all the hard work goes in behind the scenes of isolating those materials in creating the formulations in ways that are going to deliver that benefit that that you really can't see. Mild. Does this you know, other foods besides fruits and vegetables spoil, it is there some version of this that can be applied to everything. Yeah. I mean, when we think about our company, you know, every surface is an opportunity, you know, living living systems are constantly if you think about it, right? Every form life on this planet has some form protective barrier winter whether it's human skin reptilian scales. Your skin on a apple peel on an orange everything has a protective barrier. And what we're saying is if we're going to put those things, you know, those things are having challenges in rather than go into a lab and make up new chemistries to solve you know, solve old problems. Why don't we just look into the natural world to see which molecules nature's already using to solve those problems less extracted. Isolate those materials let's create formulations at solve those problems. Because if we use those materials the materials that nature is is is used. To recycling and reusing in rebuilding the different things than when we put the materials into the environment. Nature's gonna use them like it would otherwise in. We're not gonna cause any negative externalities in the system. So our, you know, our our mission is accompanied goes beyond just addressing the food loss in food waste issue. And we're really mood really believed that we're point in human development where we have the opportunity to look into the natural world to see how nature solving problems in just to literally cutting copy the solutions to solve problems for for people. What what about humans? I, you know, my three kids are aging me so fast. He's there. And it's my wife doesn't even really pay attention to me anymore, which I don't want her for is there something I could apply or drink. It could you figured it out. Yeah. We we've we've already we've already got a name for Thomas sex appeal. That's great. Yeah. I haven't heard that. We're normal. Else on the emerging team's gonna kill me. 'cause they they hit that one. I wanna call it. It really is money. But it's funny. But you know, you your skin does dry out. You know, that's a big faction of aging is, you know, your fruit your skin your your skin drying out in reacting to the oxygen. So a little barrier made out of plants that you can apply at your body to improve your skin qualities is not far off. I'll take it. Every. That's exactly what you should take away from this. So what else is holding you guys back? You have to be running into some sort of pushback somewhere, whether logistically politically commercially. I'm curious, you know, I I'd say that, you know, our biggest challenges are really those around scale. You know, if you think about it, you know, this is a really low margin, very high volume business in so to make the business successful. You know, you can't just work with one grower. You've gotta work with huge production and be working with lots and lots of produce. So that challenges us, and then of course, you know, this is a new new technology in introducing it into a market where I'm we're not replacing something. That's there were saying here's a new tool anytime, you're using a new tool on where you're allowing people to reconfigure a system you can't just sell that practice. Someone say good luck. You gotta show them how to do that in. So I'm kind of under street, we you know, we've had to become not only experts in. The technology, but also in supply chains themselves, so that we can help our partners understand how this technology can be used to kind of level up in the sense of. You know, doing things you couldn't do before. And then there's the, you know, the the real classic innovators dilemma in that the folks that are the market leaders the reason that they are the market leaders on the supply side is because they have developed or they have invested heavily into building the world's best cold supply chains the world's best refrigerated supply chains, and that's got them to their market leader position in what we're coming in. And saying is hey now, there's a second knob you can turn and by turning that knob. You don't need to invest heavily into those the development of this cold supply chains, and that's giving you know player number three four five in the industry the opportunity to compete with number one. And so those number ones don't necessarily love us right now. Interesting interesting, but we'll son Brian after him. Again. Very long because again the cardio is lacking. Get hold of them. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. So all right. Let's get into some some action steps here. What are action that that folks can take that don't involve personally come coming up with a way to to double the lifespan of of fruits and vegetables. Specifically, you know, using using their voice using their their vote using their dollar. How can you can we help? Well, the I mean, the answer are the thing that I'd love to say, I is that you know, if you if you go into grocery store in you select appeal for and immeasurable, you're helping right there because they marked they are. Yeah. Actually. Say it will stay fresh for days. You know, appeal avocado is actually see it in the store. You'll see banners up actually talking about the benefits. So it'll be right up there in front of you in going back to our philosophy is a company, we don't expect people just to do the right thing. We want to make the right thing to do the easy in the thing to do. And so our whole idea of how to solve this problem is will let's just make it a no brainer. Let's make it a Lois make the item. Let's make the fruit lower costs longer-lasting, better quality. And then you're just doing with best for you. When it ends up being what's best for the planet. So that's really, you know, the short answer what I'd tell people to do selfishly is to go into new stores and to look for appeal fruits and vegetables because there that that alone is is going to be helping. So it's kind of the first thing I'd say other things that people can do almost like there's kind of like stupid to sail on 'cause they're they're not as we say. You know, you. It's it, you know, it comes down to trying to plan inappropriately. No going back to kind of Dan Barbara's philosophy. Figuring out how to make make things out of the stuff. You have not necessarily building. You know, saying I wanna make this and then going to get that stuff because when you flip that equation around you, you end up wasting less less stuff in there is just like I mean is he said like this is the stupidest thing Americans do like just stop throwing away food in our buy stuff you need and use the us the stuff that you need. But it's it's really it's kinda that simple. Sure. I just want to clarify. So you if I go to a store that has your your fruits and vegetables, you're you're avacado is going to be cheaper than the other. Does it depends on the retailer, but they're so they're not raising the price because some kind of thinking about thinking about it this way before grocery store was buying one hundred percent of their. Fruit. And they were only selling ninety percent of it. They weren't saying. Oh, well, you know, it's our fault for not selling the other ten percent. So we're not gonna charge you for that. Ten percent. We threw away right there charging you for the hundred percent of fruit that they bought, and you know, they're only selling ninety percent in. So now if they started throwing away, you know, only two percent instead of ten percent. They can charge you less for that same Ryan, right and still are in their same margin. And soon as some of the major retailers were working with actually using this to bring down the price of the fruit in their stores, which is really exciting for us. So awesome. And I just went to the website, and and looked at the map. So you guys looks like so far like it's just like pretty highly concentrated the mid west. This is where the problem is most acute Scott rolling out growing out, the supply chain foster awesome. I'm very excited, and yeah. And and obviously if you see appeal stuff by promoted tell people about, but also like, you said just stop wasting food just because it looks ugly e pleasing head is there like a is there like we take a step back and like educate the masses, you know, in regards to like, the fact that you can go to the store, and you can grab a piece of fruit. That doesn't look perfect and you'll be fine. Yeah. Glad you brought that up. That's kind of the other thing. That's come to mind here is I don't know when it was. But I certainly was under the wrong impression as well. You know, people think if something's like a Little Brown or Royal was out of the refrigerator for two hours. It's bad. It's just it's just not not the case. You know, those those that Browning that happens. It's just a natural reaction with oxygen that you know, when something goes from colored to Brown. It means it's had some oxygen reaction eastern. Certainly shouldn't just leave things out of the refrigerator for weeks at time in them. But the fruit fruit nail Little Brown isn't gonna make you sick. When the what makes you sick is when you know, the natural bacteria that just kind of exists in the world have had a long enough time to grow on something that they you know, they form enough population that when you eat them, then they get inside your body. And you get you get food poisoning from that. But you know, it it's not a it's not like, you know, the fruit turns into poison if it gets old or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can you. You can scoop out the Brown. Portions of your avocado, and it's still completely safe in double, right? Awesome. This is very very awesome. All right. Well, we've had you for a while here. And and thank you so much. This is seriously one of the conversations I've had so you look at just adorable. Thank you. Talk to your Tyler. I like a really enjoyed talking about this stuff. You know, talk your ear off about it. If I get the chance so appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit more about what we're doing today. And just talk about this issue in in in in more depth, because it is it is you know, what I believe to be one of the fastest ways. We're gonna be able to move the needle on climate impacts is just to waste less of what we're growing. Yeah. This seems like a really cool went to follow up on a year. Just like see how it's going because it seems like it would only be getting better and better. All right. So real quick before we let you go to a couple of things anybody else that we should talk to, you know, not just in food. But but game changers like you, whether it'd be in climate or clean, energy or cancer medicine or space or anything. Yeah. It's always like the, you know game changer seem to know or be more aware of those people working on the issues and questions. Good and bad that affecting everybody now or in the next ten years big-name smell names. Yeah. You know one. So if you were to ask me, you know. What would I be working on? If I wasn't working at appeal. One of the things I think is really interesting is to look at folks who are looking at the microbiome as pertains to agriculture. Okay. So you know, I it's been in vogue recently. You know, the human micro bio, you know, in the impacts that that that is. So that's that alone is interesting topic before speak some folks about that. But also the egg by own because plants have their own microbiome in that controls everything from how efficiently they're able to produce food in in how effectively they resist pests to how well they're able to uptake nitrogen, you know, in the environment. So I think that that is a really really interesting area of research and development, and you know, they've they've had some really important insights coming out of that. So that's that's what I would. I would definitely highlight for sure, and then the others broad space that I would mention you should take a look at our folks who are leveraging the. Human immune system to fight things like cancer. So instead of making, you know, chemotherapy drugs that kinda poison the body and ideally kill off the weak cells. Folks, who are actually developing ways to charge up your immune system to kill off cancer in a in a more natural way, meaning using your own body's defense system against those cells. I think those two areas are are really going to see a lot of growth here in the next five five or ten years yen. And yet to clarify immunology the natural way not like going on a fucking juice cleanse, it's not once again knock. So if your cancer, folks. Yeah, I I love those nephew any specific names. You wanna shoot us on Email or something we'll gingko bio works on the egg bio side, I think is a really good one to check out in. It's it's mostly some researchers on the immune system stuff. But I'm happy to have happy. To send that stuff over. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, brother. All right last. We just have a quick lightning round of questions. At sounds good. Also, it's very misleading because they're not all lightning around. You know, what I'm getting tired of the Brown? Then do something about it. Okay. All right. Hey, james. When was the first time in your life? We realized you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful. Ho man deep. Really, I think it was probably what I walked into our one of our time lapse facilities on a Sunday morning about three years ago and saw the treated protease versus the untreated produce and went holy shit. I think we got something here. I don't think it was until then that I felt like that. There was an actual way to fix somebody's problems. That's pretty RAD that must have been. That's like a real drastic park. Like, hey, look the can. Voss forever came out of it exactly to be clear. Hopefully, it works out better than that address. As much as I did love it. And appreciate the risks that they took. Again, just because you should or just because you can't. Finish it. Does find a way? Hey, who is someone in your life? That's positively impacted your work in the past six months. I would say wall to rob. He just joined our board of directors. Former co CEO of whole foods, and when we raised our series c round of financing Walter joined our board and just his wisdom and insight into you know, how we can work with nature to solve problems in connect that back to you know, people in their everyday lives. That's really a kind of influenced some of the direction that we're taking as a company, so I really appreciated his contributions for sure awesome. James? What do you do when you feel overwhelmed by everything and? Specifically just acknowledging that it's it can be a little difficult out there. I do a lot of yoga do yoga like three or four days a week. That's the staple for me yet. Also, just like getting outside and going for a walk that the normally does it for me, my guilty pleasure music festivals. When I can get truly unplugged. Nice. Yeah. You're in a good part of the. Exactly, how do you consume the news? I am basically Twitter dependent from news. That's that's where I get most of my new stuff. Although now that people have been enough people know kind of where my interests are get a lot of stuff fed from outside. Hey, g see this. I love casting that wider net. Nice. Awesome. All right, James, if you could Amazon prime one book to Donald Trump, what would it be be an appeal KADO the appeal avocado, it'd be an appeal avocado, man. Oh, all right. Another man. Well, let's bring this thing home, dude. Where can our listeners follow you online and follow what appeals up to we are? We do a lot of Twitter appeal sciences. I think it's at appeal sciences Instagram same thing. And then I I'm on Twitter as well. Just James t Rogers awesome, man. Well, this has been a tremendous. We really appreciate your time today. And clearly everything you're doing. It's a really good lesson to kids that just because you're watching fucking paint dry doesn't mean you can't have an idea from an ally. Strong moral strong world put down your fucking device watch paint dry and let your subconscious you never know. I would just layer on top of that. You know, when I was thinking about starting the company, I was nervous that it'd be closing other doors if something didn't work out for some reason, but about one year into it. It was like, you know, even if this didn't work out, it would have been the best experience in my life. So I just tell people to go for it. And you're gonna learn a ton awesome. I let him mad. We'll dame's. Thank you so much, man. We will definitely check in Seattle. Everything's on Brian's gonna go make a just an opponent amount of avocado toast now. I just inkata's. To help solve that guys. What create the time today and looking forward to our follow up conversations while awesome. All right, man. All talk to really. Thanks to our incredible guest today, and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome, workout or dishwashing or fucking toll walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder, please subscribe to our free Email newsletter at important, not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species, and you can follow us all over the internet. You can find us on Twitter at important, not IMP. So weird also on Facebook and Instagram at important, not important Pinterest. And tumbler the same thing. So check us out. Follow us share us like us, you know, the deal, and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts keep lights on. Thanks, please. And you can find the show notes from today. Right in your little podcast player and at our website important, not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blame for our gym and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thanks, guys.

Dr James Rogers Brian US founder and CEO perishability Santa Barbara Brian Quinn Emmett Metallurgist Ryan Brian Calvert Kennedy apple California Los Angeles Brockton Airbnb Jane Santa Barbara
Fun Talk: He Put a Piece of Lasagna in the Bagel

Important, Not Important

38:55 min | 1 year ago

Fun Talk: He Put a Piece of Lasagna in the Bagel

"Welcome to fund talk. My name is Quinn is Brian Calvert, Kennedy. I was talking. We started this just like we start a podcast about we talked about that. You're having some computer issues today. Yeah. I'm having some techniques actually, maybe mercury in retrograde because I'm having issues all over the place. This question my phone my computer clearly, that's not real but to like, what is that? That people say. What is this? We'll know there's some there's a real thing. Yes. There's a real thing, come on. And then and then people have taken that real thing and, and applied it to as joke except I think, actually some people probably think serious. Of course they applied it to like, normal things. Unrelated retrograde explained without astrology. The science buried underneath the pseudoscience. I don't fucking want wanna read this right now. I mean, either listen, I think there's maybe some truth as to some I've heard of heard some truth as to, like technology certain things certain technological things being affected by because the mercury's in the way of some by some bullshit. So then people be like oh, you know, my fuck, I didn't get a call back from addition fucking mercury's metro, you know, they just apply it to whatever bullshit, people don't take responsibility. It's, it's deflecting responsibilities. What it is. You know who that is? You know, it started with who baby boomers, baby boomers, fucking, just admit you ruined at all. And his Greta says, please help just how just help just help, why, why is it so hard to accept blame? What's gonna come first climate carbon sequestration? Our smoothies. Ooh. Or our new cabinet? I thought this is going to be an easy question, but it's not it's not at all. Hot. Is it? No, no, no, no, no got more complicated along. There's a lot of factors to consider. I think the smoothies, I theoretically just got pushed back one minute. Uh-huh. At some point carbon a viable, it is not scalable, or forcible, but a right up that will come and then and then we'll never ever ever get the fucking thing for my Kia ever. Nope. Nope. No chance. It's not gonna happen. Yep. Three days later. So that requires a signature incorrect. Does not left enough for them to leave it outside the office did that? No, no, no. They did not and running late and our repair. Our relation guy is scheduled to be here in seven minutes. So hopefully it comes in the next six wait, he's still coming. I've been telling him like, hey, man. I'll tell you as soon as it's here. I don't know. He's to be being a super cool sport about it. Sounds good. And I thought it was supposed to be easy because I had bought them. And so it was all supposed to be seamless and put together in beautify, don't think this problem. I think we're on FedEx at this point. Okay. Are the ones who when I called and like fucking Jeremy as Jeremy, I made a note two days ago, and you guys said it was in the system and the driver would see it to leave it at the office. And then Jeremy, Jeremy yawned yelled at me and said, hey man, I just got here, and I was like, but that you shouldn't have to manually relate a message. This isn't the night's watch. I've been apparently I've, I've been wrong this whole time. I thought FedEx was a giant global corporation. It's I think it's just one guy in an office. Yeah. Whenever he gets there. Everything starts the planes can take off the trucks can leave. But other than that, like it's dark shut down until Jeremy gets there and to be clear we talked at about ten forty five in the morning. So I don't I don't fucking know man. The deal with this ugly. I soar of refrigerator in its worst knowing that, like the replacements coming. You're just looking at it going. Get outta here. It's going to be really nice already to go. We've really made some improvements lightly around desks, I've got a desk, which is you've got Mike STAN, that's not falling off the window. We're gonna have some sound proofing in here soon have soundproofing here, which will not sound like shit anymore. A set. Nobody's ever. Listen to this podcast. Milic floral can't my ears. Can't take it. I, I do. Oh, yeah. You don't listen, though are boxes organized, they're going to get even smaller. Yeah. I feel like we're coming along. I'm going to get like a, a rap for those chords. You know you can get like oh yeah. Just a fabric that goes around you still see that. But you don't see, like I mean that's better than it was right. To find. You had a question during our wonderful conversation with Dr Catherine Wilkinson. Actually. No, it was. It wasn't during it was during the intro. It was during the intro, and you asked about introduce her as a doctor in our intro. We did not in the main show, which was an abomination. All right. That's interesting. We'll have to apologize for usually pretty good about. No, it's frustrating. Guess we'll just have to redo the whole thing. Great. Yes. That saga. Much about the tree. What was it a spaceship? That's a tree trees spaceship, from something called saga fantastic. One of the best, comics of the past ten years easily. It is a saga. It is good name, then it is sort of Romeo, and Juliet base take off point of girls should be together from there from different warring worlds. Accepted is violent and sexy Fain. It is written by. Maybe more of my two favorite comic, writers Bryan, cave on who wrote cave on that sounds familiar, man. He wrote why the last man. Oh oh, right. Which other amazing shit and the artist almost better than the writing is feeling a Staples. Yeah, it was just. Out of control the and the stuff the pages. He must send to her, and then you see what she creates are some of these things are just incredible damn. But the storytelling is fantastic. It's amazing. They're supposedly halfway through this point. Yeah. The series taking a bit of a hiatus, but you can catch up. It's fucking minutes. Oh, good. Just a space. Opera romantic. It's about reason a kid, and it's just fucked am cool. It's great. So highly recommend saga, which is like saying to people, you know. I recommend the most popular thing in the world that it's great. I. I recommend that. How? Yeah. If they are there, they spend part of their journey in a spaceship. That is a tree. I mean that sounds awesome. It's a pretty red. Wow. So, you know, I've still never read. Watchmen. Good means you read it before the show. Yes. HBO's got the show coming out, right? Graphic novels right over there. Boom, I, I have a copy of it. It's great who you have a copy, a lot of books. I just set set around sit around and they just now come on. I've been reading I've been picked up some books. I think that's. That's. Yeah. Probably. You got no dishing today. What's going on? Got me little bitch offer. What today Anna call back tomorrow and found out? Hey, now, who will was that the phone call you were taking someone who's yelling at you to do something? It was my agent, just making sure that I had my m one license because this commercial requires me to be writing my motorcycle and auto people. Get a motorcycle and this shit. Listen. I don't know what to tell you. I've been looking at trying to buy a vehicle. Okay. Other than the motorcycle. So leave me alone. I'm taking baby steps. It's just frustrating. Yeah. Yeah, yes. So tomorrow, callback is for a motorcycle company called Harley Davidson, whose that and today is for some some five can say, bojangles, hick as southern fast food, drink all bojangles. Loves bojangles of never never heard of it. You've never even heard of it. Isn't isn't that isn't there? Is there some other famous thing called bojangles? Or maybe it's I don't think Jerry Seinfeld. The character on his show. He had a puppet named bojangles. Like scared when he was a kid or something like that, bojangles. No idea, anyway, sounds fun. I'm excited to to dishes after like what is it? June six months of basically radio. Silence. So I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take the three hundred dollars. They wanna pay me or whatever horse Schiff. Let's go fucking people. I still get so mad and vent to people in random strangers all the time about your Super Bowl commercial that was not unionized for bug. Budweiser budweiser. It makes me so angry as what for years ago. More than that. I don't, don't don't, don't tell me it just drives me fucking crazy. Total, total Bs and it happens all the time, and it's happening, more and more. Hey, do you know, and I feel like I forgot to mention this, but you could probably look to calendar to last recording together until August. Listen, I saw that on the calendar. Obviously, I wanted to double check with you to make sure that was true. I also realize on my way up here that I didn't I don't think I brought the proper bags that will enable me to this is it now. I don't know. Still looks pretty big. So we're sure this is this is it is this, also the last time I'm going to see you. Unless you actually come and hang out. That's why don't we do that? I don't want our last. Being together while we're at this fucking office. Boy. I'm gone this weekend. Yep. Going out of town to run run like the wind Bren linked wind if the wind was old and hurt. All right. So I'm back where you can hang on next week. You could come up too little work. I'll be working. Why won't be recording? You hate coming. Here's he's stood again. I'm into it. Yeah. I need to catch up on some comics. There's another great. Let's see what else is good out there looking at the one hundred greatest comics on NPR right now. There's cool stuff. Here's and great. There's new Martian manhunter. That's great paper girls is another new fantastic. One that I gave on. Yeah, that's pretty far down. It's run to what's the other. Jesus, just so much all these people making all this art. Oh, last year mister miracle mister miracle fantastic run cool. I think that's out in the book now. Yeah. Some good stuff. Right. There's so much stuff to ingest. I remember when the comics allergy I launch to, you know that. So it's a company basically, it's the digital storefront and container for comics. So there's a variety of unlike DC has their own one. Now marvel I think are actually powered by comics allergy. But you can buy any comic in the world, and then you can have it, and he'll update you new ones come out and stuff like that, unless you have that you have like a digital version of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And I remember and it came out years ago. Now like when the ipad first came out and everyone's like this is incredible. Remember, sitting sitting on a plane next to my wife and I told her, I was like, hey, you got check this out. You could have every comic in the world. I mean theoretically, you've access to every coming in the world here on your device and. The look on her face followed closely by the verbalize ation of the look on face, which is by every fucking coming in the world. And I was like, no, no, no thought like, oh I understand why she would think that I would do. The first night re comic in the first night of us living together after ten months of long distance. She walked in there with this little house made this little sort of back room where she basically said, you can put all your stuff in here. Just don't come out of your house. Yep. Yep. If you noticed anywhere, but that room, it didn't look like lived there wasn't on the on the voice Mus machine. Nothing fair backed years. Never sure she walked in. There's a little TV in their first night, and I was watching on the TV where you could watch eight baseball games at one screen tile, and she walked in so me like, oh, look, he's in he's here together. And then she looked at the screen and you could see on her face. I have made an enormous mistake. Look, and look at some of these great, everything is grateful. She doesn't have any regrets at all. Yeah. But you I don't understand the eight things on the screen at the same time or even four what he it's like, so I would just be spasm out trying to get it. I'm doing fantasy or something. What was the? Oh, God mean you remember like the day before that I was still working fantasy sports was my job was my job. You have to understand, like, aching on at once Jesus was like the minimum of what my office was like every. So I was in seven football leagues for baseball leagues. And I was in soccer I was in rugby. I was in hockey ball video games. I mean that was that was my job in my life. So extracting myself from that has been a hell of a process, and some of it has been necessary and forced upon me by life and time and bandwidth, but also much happier like I'm in one baseball league. It's National League only I share it still to friend of the pods. Jeff IS? All right. You guys team up right? Right. Right. Right. Because he is, is just infinitely better at it than I am and has way more time. So we pardon on that. I'm happy. I'm focusing on one roster players. I don't do football anymore because federal fuck football anyways, I do a little soccer bump terrible friend of the pod Jeff and everyone else who listens does soccer who's in our league of Franklin. Nate just destroy me and I think finished second fifty something people fool. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Knock knock got don't do hockey I only did basketball for couple years now. We gotta get you in that league next year would love to. We get ahead of it. We talk about you guys. Do you guys think traffic around state draft express a lottery auction auction? Right. Whenever I think they do auction, but keep relief to zoos going to expand it. We should get call in and we'll talk about it. People would love to kinda start doing these talks, where somebody call on will the problem is, we couldn't do it now because nobody knows right? In b? We're not recording a master. We're just recording the local because I didn't have Skype fired up in the master records through. All right. Fine ahead of time. Have you seen speaking of sports? Have you seen this Australian Football League? If he has heard about this, the rugby one, it's called AFL SaaS trillion football, there was Austrailia at the bar, where the night, we're watching basketball, and they were just like asked me all these questions, they had no fucking idea. And they were like our sport is the AFL, and they described it as basketball on a football field said gridiron Australia. They were they were just, I mean, they couldn't they loved it so much these two women, and so now I wanna watch it. And I still haven't I just was reminded of it because you were talking about all this rugby and ship. Have you ever seen it? There's a cool. Yeah. They really always funny to see like a different incarnation. Yeah. Like a tweak to or like emerging of. The sports, you're familiar or it looks like rugby is it something like rugby? It's closer to rugby meet soccer rugby, basically, is soccer with full-contact, but it's. It's faster than rugby. It's complicated rugby's, like the most difficult thing in the world to explain. It's insane but it's such a great game. I'm gonna I'm gonna wash that shit outta some AFL. It's probably ESPN plus is plus so great. You don't like five bucks a month. It just started last year. And it's like the old days of ESPN where there when they were like, how do we fill a twenty four hour sports network? I put everything on this is that except for instead of twenty four hour sports network. It's unlimited. So they're just throwing every bit of content. You can imagine on it. It's a lot of ESPN plus five dollars a month. I think it's five bucks a month. And it's just going to get better. I mean it's only like six months old, but it's fun. I mean you can find anything like my colleges hockey team games are live there on their exit somewhat. The patriot league in basically they're like, already tell they're already producing the games right locally. Right. And so is being plus just needs access to the feet Sam deal with them, and now it's on and a bunch of alumni can go. Holy fuck. I can watch this thing. Yeah. That's such random shit on there. It's great. I wonder if I can get like there's a college ultimate frisbee league that is on ESPN. Yeah. But that's what's so great. You're like TV. I'll look into getting maybe five bucks. That's nothing. Yeah. I mean it just goes right into your mid budget. I have no money. Only way to figure out. Why do you know that there's this whole? There are two people of I just keep realizing there are people who they say, I don't have any money and they mean like there's no money. They are living paycheck to paycheck, no money. And then there's always other people about, oh, I have no money and what they really mean is like they have a little bit less money than they wish. They had and they have a savings account full of money. But they like their mindset is, oh, I don't have any money or I'm not, you know, I it's amazing to me. I wish that's how I was thought. Oh, yeah. Got no money. It's all that money that I have in the savings account. My first they treat it. Like that's not money to spend, which is the right way to do it. My first day at a at ESPN. No was. When I okay. So. Graduated when lived in London work for the financial times for year, those great in, in lived in Spain in the Middle East for while spend all the money, I made the financial times, credit card like once in a lifetime, you can do the travel centre cetera backpacking came back interviewed a bunch of places in Newark couldn't get job right away. So I went to a temp agency these. They sent me up at Conde nast, the big magazine, of course, which is the time was like at the end of their, we just burn money on fucking everything saying, like every person who worked there got car service home. I mean, it's just preposterous as so I remember my first day there, the obviously, don't pay you on your first day of work. It's not like bar. With money. You're getting a check in two weeks. Right. Sounds great except for what you do. Those first thirteen days the first day, so I was living at twenty first and I you're the greatest bagel shop of all time as bagel. What's it will? It was called Essa bangel. It's gone that versions closers, one midtown. They're still the best in the world. Have. We gotta talk bagels. Okay. Yep. But my office was like, mid down, fifties, the old Conde nast building. I think they're in the new freedom tower now got so. I went to go get on the subway to come home from my first day in realized I didn't have enough money for the subway. Oh. Which is bucks at the time. Yeah. So I walk home sixty blocks. Right. Jesus yet. There was no other option. There was no bikes were no Elaine scooters, male money in my Bank account. I mean, literally had like a dial. Yeah. Okay, always ship. Then I got back and realized I didn't have any dinner. I didn't have any groceries or anything like the so downstairs was a Burger King, and I went down into it, and I tried to get to regular cheeseburgers, which those are those were like foul. Dollar. They gave me too, and they showed me the total. And I had to give one oh my God. Because I only had like eighty cents to my name. Yeah. Well, that's that's pretty bad. Yeah. I mean look again, we always try to put things in context. That's a summary of half of people living in cities, these days, much worse here in Los Angeles, seven thousand vets on the street. Good work, everybody. But yeah, that's I definitely felt the no no. I have no no money. No money. Well, it's really good to know that you were there. And you built yourself up to the great place that you are now that since barring. So tired. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, brian. How are you enjoying our experience with anchor are a new publishing platform? Man. It has been such a nice improvement. It's, it's like it's the future, like the first time I could order pizza from my phone number that life should just be this way feels like this is the future. We were promised exactly anchor has been at the light. It's free. It's easy as hell. It's everything you need to make a podcast, new one or an existing one like ours. We moved. Right. Over so easy. And it's own one place. You can record and edit. They'll distribute your podcast everywhere, Spotify, apple podcast Google. I mean all the all the places right? Yeah. And great news. He could make money from your podcast. Yeah. That's a revelation revelation. That's really nice. So get out the kids. Download the anchor app on whatever device you got and or go to anchor dot FM to get started. You are pretty tired of them. Hey have you had good bagels in Los Angeles, because I have, so yeah, I know this is controversial. I think so there's apparently place on sunset. That's really great. I haven't been SAM's. Maybe I can't remember a friend of the Allison as told me about I gotta go there. There's a western bagel that's near us. It's pretty good. And then Larry King started a place called Brooklyn water bagel. Right. Because everyone's like, it's the one, okay fine that place is actually pretty fucking good. What's weird is. It's like in the middle of Beverly Hills, but I've definitely gotten like takeout bagels from there. And I'll just freeze a bunch. They're they're really good. What's your jam? That's what I had heard my I don't really care about bagels that much. But my girlfriend loves bagels. And so I wanted to find the best place. And I heard that yet New York water bagels are broken water bagels was was supposed to be good. So I texted my buddy, he's one of my like Goto Pullen number. One. Like, if I have any questions about food and almost any city, I would say, honestly, but obviously, especially 'cause we both live here and he was like New York bagels is fine. Go to this place, you'll never go because it's so far away from where you live in, in the vast city of Los Angeles. All we in Silverlake. My god. Have you ever even been to Silverlake? Yeah. Okay. It's called MAURICE bagels. And the I mean just phenomenal. On believable, do I have to go there and a world where everything you'd be delivered God's? So could I is it worth it to get something delivered from from Silverlake to your house? A good bagel. Yeah. It was phenomenal. Really? Would you go to? They had like, I don't know. What's the rate, which your go-to bangle this one now? Okay. This is now. Oh, my God is the best babe, I've ever had my whole life, hit me cream cheese avocado radish. Like wild lead thinly sliced heirloom tomatoes on a salt and pepper bagel. Interesting. World changing. Oh my God. I was. So I was in I was in, you know, sometimes every once in a while you beat someone. It's just like whoa. I think I just had the best of something. It's a wonderful thing. Thing for longtime mine was cinnamon raisin bagel cream cheese, love it so pure and then I discovered when I lived above Esa bagel everything bagels shorter. Everything bagels are. You're a little lap just greatest fucking things on the planet. I mean, more carbs than have ever been produced any wherever the picture somewhere when people would come visit, I feel like my family and friends visited me, just for the bagels shirt picture somewhere of my brother. Can you see eating I had made like a seven cheese. Lasagna the night before my God. And he got his everything. She's he got everything bagel and put a piece he put it. I think it's our smoothies put a piece of, of the lasagna, he put a piece of the lasagna in, in the bagel and all I could think of it was like how many calories and how much how many carbs is that how much could it be? I gotta say, I thought that was gonna be the fucking dress her and I was very excited if I did you think this is the deal you have so much more than I do. I actually keep refreshing the deliveries page. I did you think waiting for it to say like couldn't deliver as close? Yeah. It's not like there's locked doors or anything. Everything is fine and easy and accessible. I'm sure that you were very clear about where to deliver. Got some worries about the race this weekend. No, this could be the last one people here. It's supposed to be ninety five. Jesus. Ninety five ru. That's not that's not good. I'm not I'm not happy about eighty five. Ninety five beds. So noses, we have an eight o'clock start time. So it won't be ninety five definite, but it's gonna be fucking hot, but it's gonna take like five how long has this one? The Saturday race will probably take a couple of hours. Okay. So it's gonna be fucking hot by the time we finish. I haven't they're just gonna be two two of the real bad. But so by the way that eight o'clock start time is earliest you can start. There's there's waves that started twelve and one. Oh, I do it. There's no way I would do it. It's, it's so unsafe. Right. Yeah. So as this could be the last talks, let the last month front survive, get the fuck outta here. Just an gonna pack my Camelback, it'd be really good about my water. My hydration ahead of time. Got a pre hydrate. During the race. And then after for sure. On a sunscreen. I'd wear a hat to get so fucking muddy. It's a mess, but bandanna is not going to keep the sun off my face visor upset on backwards. Okay. Hey, so how many how many weeks of this, my going, how many weeks not gonna see you eight year? Let's get new. My ever gonna see you again on clear. Yeah. I will be gone. The duration of the trip is about nine weeks. I'd have to come back for short work thing, depending on some things. But yeah, short work thing. All right. It will see man. What are your plans a summer do? How many vacations you taken remember like ten minutes ago? When I said, I don't have any money. Yeah, that's refunding stopped you. That's true. Remember when you took like that three months vacation, you came back. And you're like I've made an enormous mistake. It was one month and it was wonderful. Handle paying it off and also very financially. Stupid got such good times, wouldn't trade it for anything except for no debt. No, I don't have a have a lot going on here. I was gonna try to go to Austin next month. But probably won't happen. Why what's an Austin a friend, a good good friend who haven't seen in a while? Boy, probably go to Vegas for a couple of days to watch the NBA summer league watch all the rookies. And like first year, guys play that's gonna be RAD. And then there was some talk about a boy's trip with my tier one from back home. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Sure. In july. But I mean, let's get real glad you guys talk about this stuff. I got a book all these commercials. I. Then I'll do it if there's money in my hand. Then I'll go on a trip. But if it's only maybe money, I can't come, how do you like your smoothie I wanted to mention how good it was before. But you were talking, but it's very good. So green deficient. You know, my roommate's been drinking, celery juice, every morning for a couple of weeks as fucking saying are wonder how much of it, and we talked about it before the placebo effect, right. Like, but he is like he swears that he's that he's feels so much better in every aspect of his life. And it's almost like fine fuck even if it's bullshit, fine. Go at it fine. A lot of talk about it great for your skin. We should really drop this whole fix the world thing. And just get into some sort of pseudoscience than cash out. I mean at this point I'm pretty it's so much easier. Right. Pseudoscience. I love it. Let me ask you question related to our work shoot. What percentage of our commerce of our main shows, we've recorded seventy one what percentage, do you think are climate change specifically? Well, we, we talk everything is. In a lot of times. We talk about clean energy in that, so so related to climate change, which it is separated. But please a lot drastically. Most of it, give me a percentage, seventy six twenty seven watts. No, it's not. That's wrong. You ready? Sure. Yeah, no as just spitting out, data me just making up numbers mean we are twenty seven point six percent climate. Five point three percent, specifically clean energy. This isn't really an order here. Let me put in order twenty seven percents climate. Sixteen percent medicine, twelve percent politics, which can apply to any of those things. What's the next big is eight percent agriculture. So it is the biggest one is just as much, but yeah, eight percents space eight percent science education, five percent. Ocean, five percent, clean energy and two point six percent youth, which probably the climate groups. It's interesting, though, right? I mean, that's fine everything so connected it is. But I just everyone's always oh, it's the climate change podcast. I'm like it's a lot, but it's not sixty percent. People say that about us sure I get it though because it's the thing that's on. Everyone's mind. But this is why try to emphasize like climate change is the big fucking thing. But there's all these other things going on, like not great things like antibiotics, but also some really great ship. You know, and other complicated things. But it's interesting like agriculture's broken with or without climate change. You know. Right. And the factoring everyone because we have to eat. When we have to we do have to do you think that one of the reasons I can't gain weight is because I don't eat enough calories. Probably are you just got like a rock and metabolism. I mean that's true. Right. I mean your body's hot. Time justify you from please. What if it hurts? My stomach d two into calories. You know, can I tell you what? Some of those headshots smoking on the motorcycle, please stop it. Stop it. Did you up date our votes on the on our site? No, you wouldn't let me on my God. But I did the first Email, everybody gets actually, in the welcome to important, not important. I did use that image of you with the boombox. I don't know if I said that that was okay. Did you know you said it was great? Get it. Thanks for doing. I just had over really that one is to shore. It's too good. A sweet teddy still on the website as if he's ever here, fucking guy. Do job man. To your fucking job. Teddy, what do we have duty at Twitter to extend the amount of characters that can be in a handle? I mean the only way that we can do something about. All right. It would be great, wouldn't it? Yeah. It would who has at important. I don't know. You'll miniature check I'm sure if it's a news. Sure. Gotta be right. I can't believe that you wouldn't have. Oh, yeah, it's true. It's a guy named drew was last time you tweet December last December. Oh, sorry. It's a, it's a woman named drew I'm sorry now that I see the photo. We got we should just get that we do that we do important or important, not out of curiosity. What do you mean? We should just get that to somebody who owns it. It's complicated, but it can be done a they've, you know, of course, they've policies because people do this all the time, then what their name they want this Email address thing. And like if you're a brand, and someone has your exact name used certainly have more of a argument, right? Especially if it's not in use, or is been. Left unattended? Okay. We don't have any of that going on, but it'd be interesting. I was I was so mad that I couldn't get BC K or BBC K on things because people are had them, especially when it was like, well that's the p Patrick. What is not a well, whatever? Oh, yeah. No. Is it? BP K on Twitter, the Bristol pub chest night. It's what that stands for they get together every Wednesday apparently at six thirty I wanna do that. They haven't tweeted since two thousand thirteen I'll Christmas day. You could argue. I mean it's not argument. You're just saying like this is my name, I would like to have this. And then I don't know what the fuck in policies are I'm sure it's like the wild west. Yeah. I can't imagine in the world of things that Twitter does. Well that that's one of them. Whatever. This has been, maybe the worst fun talk of all time. Would you say if you say it, what are we done? How long has it been thirty six minutes? That's nothing three our podcast conversation that got long? But I thought it was great. I talked too much. She could get going forever. Great listening. You do. I make the big bucks. Oh, god. It's been a good run. Guys dollas into him people. It's been a good run. Everything's fine. He's gonna survive the race. We're not gonna see each other for nine months months. We might it might actually be more weeks when we get back because the goal is to take all of August off. Oh, yeah. So could be like eleven weeks twelve weeks. Wow. I realized what we do need to one. We need to do in August, though is Sal. Alex's lemonade stand people want to get them back on before September 'cause I did after. Yes, it's like first or second weekend in September. So I wanna get ahead of that start promoting and then have them on like well before, so people can hear about it and, and get tickets and go really fucking. It's just the best. We're actually going to have another conversation with actually different conversation with some of the people, some of the scientists working for them, Oaklawn which I'm pretty empty about, that's coming up in a little while great, ma'am. Talk about people doing shit. I don't think there's any real like going to sleep and go like might doing enough craziness. You know what they don't have. Podcast. I mean, they might they might. They should just have one. Yeah. That was really great event. That'll be fun to do again. Hey did you find the cord for your moon that I buy know where the fuck did a goat gave it to me? Did you give it to me, at home or never been to my house? So is here. I'll throw it out on the way out. Did you? Last time we were here you don't take the trash. It's got to be in that corner. That's only unexplored place in the whole play. Well, why don't I look for it for you? Why don't you don't do that right after you get the Instagram stickers going that this has been fun? That's, that's wonderful. I love my job. We'll talk to you later. Wait, what are we supposed to say? Emails fun talk. Maybe non Mandarin. If like I'll Google translate. You said I can use we can try you do that. The voice messages. I realized I need to make now that I know those exists in the know how to use them. I need to make like a weekly reminder to, to check them. It's not talked to the people is not intuitive, the finals fucking thing through like attached to each episode, and you have to go through six menus, weird super fucking tonight. Cool feature but just make a section like my voice messages. Yeah. Right. If you're gonna promote the thing, make anyone send us those, we'll find him one day on day one day and won't clued in the I think that's it. All right. Great weekend wins coming out, Brian. Who knows no way. What number is this twenty five twenty six when he's six dune family? I believe at least shit. That's crazy. The whole a whole month ahead of time. We'll start to run behind though because we're never next week. I get. Anyways, have a great weekend. Everybody.

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#78: Planning for Chaos: Strategies for Our Mad Max World

Important, Not Important

1:10:11 hr | 1 year ago

#78: Planning for Chaos: Strategies for Our Mad Max World

"Welcome to important. It's not important. My name is and i'm brian calvert kennedy. This is the podcast where we dive into a specific topic or question affecting everyone on the planet right now in the next extend years just kind of the entire point today's conversation <hes> if it can kill us most of us or turn us into data from star trek we are in our our guests are scientists doctors. Engineers politicians astronauts even a reverend and we worked towards action steps. Our listeners can take with their voice voice their vote and their dollar. This is a friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts feedback drawings <music> on all plea mostly cookies to us on twitter at important not in or email us at fun talk at important not important dot com and you can actually also leave us <hes> you know complementary or threatening voice messages a- at the lincoln our show no to be clear. You can't send cookies danny of these things but if you make correct cookies send us a note and we'll give you the correct address figure some great yeah i mean you can go pick them up. You can also join thousands of other smart people and subscribe to our free. Weekly newsletter comes out friday's most of the time at important not important dot com. This week's episode is talking about how crazy shit is out. There recognized that we see you but despite a all of that turns out you can actually plan for the future and save world at the same time amazing. We have with us this week a beena venkataraman. She's the author of the forthcoming book. The optimists telescope telescope is great. Bryan actually found out that it's not a real telescope is a telescope yep. <hes> he was burnt are a little bit but he's excited again because bean is awesome. She really was fantastic and i'm excited for this book and i love that she wants to well the episodes great we used to do that. People didn't like that yeah right right about two again. They would say why. Why did you talk about it. When you're about to talk about it we were young. We didn't know that was years ago ago. Okay here we go. Let's go talk to our guest. Today is being venkataraman and together. We're gonna talk talk about planning for chaos strategies when it's basically mad max out there being welcome. Thank you so here. We are very happy to help you be if you don't mind. Why don't you tell anybody who you are. What you sure i'm being trauma. I'm the author of the optimus telescope thinking ahead in a reckless age new book and i teach in the program on science technology and society at m._i._t. Where i- brainwash young college students perfect you one of those people a good brainwashing though right right right. It's different. We need some good brainwash native australia. That's about two of his his <hes>. That sounds great we again. We're so happy to have is going to be a great combo and then just as a reminder to everyone and so you know. I don't know if we talked about it before the before reporting <hes> we're we're just gonna go over some. Oh we did great. I was listening. We're going to go over some <hes> context <hes> for our for our question <hes> our topic today and then dig and do some action oriented questions that to the core of why we should all care about it and you and what we can all do to support. You sound good great awesome beano. We'd like to start with one important question to set the tone for things and i know you said you listen to some episodes. A one my apologies for all the time you can never get back to you cheated a little bit but if you could tell us why you are vital to the survival of the species am i am <hes> no. I think i'm i'm vital because everyone's vital to the survival species. I think to be alive today where we're facing uncritical tipping points the melting arctic rising seas <hes> we're all right if you think about us in the fabric of time if you think about the generations the people alive today we have such extraordinary power to shape the future. We have such extraordinary power to do things at scale the scale of the planet and we know about what we're doing. We know the half-life of our radioactive ways. We know how long are pollution's going to linger in the atmosphere and heat up the planet and so i think is one among many <hes> it's it's sort of like we all have to act. It's going to take action at all. Different levels is to do something about it. That said i just had a friend. Tell me she said you need to be the nightingale like what kevin looked at her like. She was smoking he something she wasn't sure sober and what she said was <hes>. You need to sing the song that people feel in their hearts but haven't yet brought into sound into words wasn't smoking. No i'm sure <hes> but you know this idea. She said that's how the revolution starts about how she ended. It is like l. singing to another ninety. Go i know i was like no pressure. Just have to sing the song in people's hearts but i think of like the ideal case <music> of of the book i just wrote. I mean yeah. I hope i am like bring two words and bringing into action like the deepest highest aspirations that we have <hes> to actually care for the future actually be good. Ancestors for future generations be remembered as the people who actually save the planet instead of instead of cursing racing it. You said something in there. I'm going to come back to not gonna give it away yet but i'm curious. <hes> and maybe i should ask your friend does but i wanna ask you. Why do you feel before we get into things. Why do you feel uniquely suited to be the nightingale to do this specific job to write this book and brainwash all these young people if not me then who <hes> i think i think i've been i've been thinking about the future it's been connected to. I guess i've felt the connection between the fate of humanity in the fate of the planet as something that i i mean i just sort of grew up with an intuitive sense of that and <hes> i've been thinking about it studying it acting to try to address it for basically my entire entire professional life in one way or another though it's look very different depending on where i've been i've been in government or thin journalists newsroom <hes> and so i think one of the things that i bring to the table is a sense of connecting what we actually believe in answered of value you wanna do is human beings and not being willing to accept that the way that we're doing things now is how it has to be. I actually think that we have far a greater capacity and then we give ourselves credit for as individuals as communities and as a society and so i think it's a combination of my stubbornness to extend the world as it is and my i guess creativity and passion to to make a difference. I love that <hes>. I've i feel stubbornness is pretty necessary. These days you know things are going down the pipe pretty quickly. A lot of directions that we need people are just like yeah. No it's not it's not gonna fucking happen. I'm going to stay in every way of this. It's the <hes> it's the lord of the rings. You shall not pass right totally. I need a kid like that. Definitely get a k. Brian will definitely make you a cape and maybe a beard beard like that beard's staff different different podcast we can get into it but your staff that glows on demand safe for sure and yeah. I'm into it so i i love that ah let's talk a little bit about our little context for today and as usual and everybody else knows this is like a very poorly put together and not edited wikipedia <hes> pity article like the old wikipedia when your parents like you can't use that for your homework it's not reliable usually go into sort of generalists take on some technical subject subject of which i've just learned like <hes> pediatric cancer or ocean acidification or the relatively successful all standardization of british health records or some monsoon <hes> or monkey it could be more contextual history or <hes> sort of in a monologue on ethics about a recurring pandemic or or soil or why we it's insane that we keep having to tell people that we need more young women and people of color in science because the fuck is that not obvious by now but instead of that today. I think we just get right into it because if you you if you listen to this podcast if you're cognitively awake technically in any capacity you're seeing and hearing and i'm feeling some we like to say existential ish shit. That's probably stressing you the fuck out every day like the rest of us. How do you deal right now more importantly for today. How the hell are you supposed to plan for completely unpredictable sure looked stark out their future right you probably you and your day like a lot of other folks binging something like handmaid's taylor black mirror and five years ago you like boy that's scary and now you're like that doesn't look bad compared to fucking twitter today and and that's why i'm thankful for people like being on and to have this conversation today because she is <hes> clearly the the expert and after reading the book. I feel in such safer hands that she's going to plan everything else for me. <hes> for for planning for all this chaos being a i have to say there. There's one thing that that stood out to me <hes> very early so we talk to a lot of exceptional individuals on this show and and many are driven to do what they do not for profit or fame though those are sometimes not always byproducts of their work work they do them for good because it's the right thing to do to either create a better future or prevent a much worse one and so sometimes since we're always pushing towards action and trying to practically inspire folks and young listeners. I'll ask something like specific relationship you can point to that was a catalyst for your actions to get you where are today but before i ask you that or or or instead. Could you tell me <hes> it read for the dedication in your book that that first page sure it's for my parents who crossed the oceans for the sake of the future. I loved that so much to me. It is the perfect encapsulation of what parents do for their tildren but at the same time the task before us so i would love if you could talk to me a little bit about how your parents have informed your work and life thus far <hes> in why they have inspired you to continue to look down the road. Yeah thank you and thanks for sharing that you feel that way as well but <hes> my parents is came to this country. My dad in particular came to the u._s. From south india he was the person his family to come at a time when he couldn't afford to call home he would send and letters or telegrams back home that would you know there. Were sort of like weeks that went in between hearing from his parents. When he came so oh he has a kind of typical or let's say stereotypical american dream story. He came with seven dollars in his pocket. Why does everyone have seven dollars. I just wanna know confused. Certainly someone just give them an envelope with right right yeah and he didn't have you didn't have a driver's license and he realized at some point 'cause he was in toledo ohio that he needed to be able to drive a car and so he went to look at this woman's used car and she was like okay cost whatever for like one hundred dollars whatever it was when he finally had that money and he said okay i'll buy it but you have to teach me how to drive <hes> so he did like he had some incredible people who helped him along the way and my mom came over years later <hes> they had an arranged marriage that crashed and burned about another story raper another podcast app but <hes> also i in her family to live in the united states and so oh they they were both just so furet future oriented in how they raised us. They my sister die. They <hes> you know everything was invested. Adopted our future education otherwise <hes> they've always you know they were the kinds of parents that would sacrifice their own in comfort and things that they wanted to make sure that my sister and i would do well in the world and <hes> with my mom that really manifested a lot in her like being my number one shooter the leader. My mom is a physicist so she's she's. She was not at all like sort of the kind of mom who had like low standards or was like late but she she was a college professor. She goes brought really interesting students and faculty homes. There was a really interesting speakers that would go to her college and she would always make sure she dragged me. Along the here bill mckibben come speak at the college of wooster or jane goodall and she just was like my biggest championship remain so today i love that i've got a few small crazy <hes> children in my life and i joke sometimes <hes> you know. They're going to grow up in debt. What did you do when when the chips are on the line and they popular says coming and i'll say i started podcast and there will be horrified at at my level of commitment but the nightingale now this a nobody wants that thank you but it does it does stick with me though you know 'cause. They're old enough to start asking god so many questions but at the same time you know who who crossed oceans stuck with me because that's what we try to do every day right right and i think there's a lot in our culture right now that's encouraging us to sort of focus on the immediate and part of it is i think our dread about the future. It's sort of like well well. If the world's going to hell in a handbasket is has put it at just going to get what's mine here now but there so many of us whether we're parents of people who just just aware of the future who really are willing to have the aspiration to cross oceans for the sake of future and i think it's sort of like were kind of at odds with where our culture and society is at the moment but i actually think there's a huge potential to actually take back what our aspiration is. Make it reality and your story. The an airline reminds me of one of the posters. I saw i was in d._c. For the climate march that happened in april two thousand seventeen soon after the <hes> the trump presidential election and there was beautiful hand printed poster of a bother sitting on a chair and kid and there should've been scuba suits like a steam punk style scuba suits and he says the kid says daddy where were you during the climate wars <hes> so yeah that really <hes> the images stayed with me. Yeah i mean it's kind of provocative shit. That's gonna stick with people and and really start to the fight right. I mean everybody loves after all these protests with science or the women's march or whatever signs where people go wow they just they just went out there and carry that sign around <hes> but that's okay. I guess that's where people are that fed up that they're willing to go you know right this or that or whatever it might be yeah that we have to. We encampment words anymore and i just loved. You're you're writing so much before we really get into the meat of the book and there's something that did stick with me on this sort of again long-term for a <hes> long-term sort of ethos of the whole thing and you you said it before there's there's a phrase in there and it's also in the intro from your publisher that they send along <hes> which is what if even this reckless age we choose to value the future and become quote unquote at our ancestors. I i love that because it implies not only what we've been talking about which is forward thinking <hes> but the idea of making a leap to the future and then looking back and asking. What sort of legacy do i want to leave. You know if people later are building on our shoulders. What what are those shoulders made up. What did what did we would. We do to to move this along late. For this comes to mind like for mitch mcconnell. It would be a uh something like you know bankrupting democracy and the only livable planet that we're aware of <hes> until you know some futuristic mystic seafaring nation arises from the sees of over what were used to be new york to give representative government another shot not but for someone else it could be something differently mitch mcconnell's invertebrate. You have to give it you know. I'm not sure he's capable of this kind of thinking. Yeah i mean the truth uh-huh frontal cortex but what does it mean to you as mantra and he's like this is what i want my children to think i was made of so what is what does that phrase mean to you and and practically as again. We're working towards practicality. How does that influence your own long-term planning. Yeah i mean i. I think it's a lens i use with a lot of the decisions i make <hes> personally but mostly in my work and you know it's interesting because i don't have kids and i decided did not have kids but by the way had like seven godchildren and two nieces enough i'm bunch of nieces and nephews yeah bunch of young people whose speech i'm personally invested in but also i sort of see my roles in ancestor is much more about our sheriff future like all of our children and grandchildren and <hes> <hes> i see that the role i need to play is about nurturing the future but in a much broader sense of our community and <hes> <hes> it's why i work on problems like climate change. It's why i think about and write about tools like gene editing which i think have incredible potential to be heirlooms weeped the future because if that knowledge in his tools can use to prevent and cure disease that's great but it's also sort of a kind of airline that you have to think about carefully. Please do not <hes> you know we could for example <hes> edit out traits out of the entire human species like we have that power capacity <hes> to change the whole a future of our species in when we hold power we need to think of it as as ancestors the end that means not just thinking about what diseases are we going to cure today. How are we gonna engineer. The perfect embryo so the next child's onus is perfect next lenzi way. We actually have to be thinking about it from the perspective of like what does that do to the human genetic cool. Are we decreasing seen diversity. How are we going to change and have attentional <unk> unintended consequences of using technologies like that so i think think thinking of yourself as an ancestor also automatically kicks in like the kind of thinking the trump administration wants to do right now when they are trying to get the national climate assessment not to look at climate models beyond the year twenty forty when you think of yourself as an ancestor you're thinking beyond your of your children and grandchildren or you're in my case my nieces and and their children and so it automatically implicates me in what happens in twenty fifty and beyond and when we think about out the seas rising miami or we think about frequent droughts or floods the kinds of impacts that are predicted are warming climate. When i'm an ancestor right my decisions today actually matter it doesn't matter the fact that that those consequences are coming in the distant future doesn't mean that can discount them the way that you know economists. I missed policymakers talk about discounting future. I can't discount them in that way like it's not a cold hearted calculation because i actually have a obligations the us to those <unk> actually have obligations on i have like a deep deeply held value to care for steward resources like heirlooms <unk> to those generate future generations and i hope you're going to edit me so i sound better. I'm sorry i'm like you kidding me you up. We're just going to speed it up. Really fast grabbed me but you know the thing is like this sounds like this might sound like pie in the sky or i'm like a super idealistic thinking in this way but the reality is it's kinda foundational universal value and you can go back to thomas jefferson who you talked about leaving resources to future unencumbered by the predecessors so we should be extorting things for future generations teddy roosevelt. The bell spoke about not letting present-day minority <hes> squander resources that belong to the future edmond burke. Who was this irish political philosopher super who is kind of the godfather of conservatism wrote about society. His actual ideas society was a partnership among generations <hes> there are these concepts like the public trust doctrine that are <hes> through in democratic constitutions on multiple continents and the idea behind the public. Trust doctrine is that there are certain resources ought to be held in the trust or the common benefit of generations alive today but also generations in the future so this this kind of language aspiration rationing ideal exists in cultures around the world and our foundation documents of a government and democracy and the question is like how do we act china's aspirations because there's a big disconnect between what we see in that language and what we feel in our hearts is obligations should get your generation and what we're actually doing. Take collectively well. It's interesting i mean because it does exist in so many different places and at the same time it's not even being considered in so many places there hasn't been recently but i feel like people are feeling the need to go back to it. I mean you look at like you said reading the founders or reading marcus aurelius s. or or anything like that. It's it's all about. It's all about long-term consideration and how if you read those things now how much it can influence your life but most people are- twitter they don't read founders. They don't read those kind of things you know. Facebook is you know has more control over most people's was life than any country in their model is move fast and break things right where where a move fast and break things versus the term better ancestor and i think i may a science nerve and i'm a proud liberal arts major and and and how many of these technological issues would be would would have never happened or or would have been considered differently over rolled out with more attention to detail if there are things like a liberal arts major and chief at some of these companies who could say things like i mean almost forget better rance esther but start with should we do this. Why shouldn't we do this affect. Who won't this effect will people benefit or is this. You know things like that and then you can get a better ancestor because it feels like they're so far from it. You know i look at the other day. I mean you know we knew this was going to happen. <hes> when when this psycho got elected in in in brazil and he was like yeah well i'm gonna cut down. The amazon turns out. He's cutting down the fucking amazon like the which is like our our bulwark against climate changes is the amazon on and off for cows. Give me turned into meat because we can't stop eating meat. What are we doing well. I remember when candidate trump trump was still in the republican primary fields and he would say these outlandish things and people people would say like really smart people would say on facebook and and people in my life that say you know he. He would never do those things you know. He'd never build a wall literally. You know it's like a my line is always like when they tell you what they're going to do. You believe them believe that has at the very worst very worst. You're planning for a scenario that that will never come to pass that you're still like you know prepared for that to be the reality and you're you're actually taking them at their word. It's interesting what you were saying about the technology companies too because i think that we do need need to have building blocks towards this idea of being good ancestors for company for a lot of companies today and even for us in our lives today. I think a lot of this comes down to or <hes> can be influenced by how we measure ourselves like. How are we measuring progress. How are we measuring success and i go back to the story that the ancient greek historian herodotus this told which may or may not have been true but let's go with it was nobody has a check on it. Yeah we can't check this one so easily it turns out but so there was a magistrate in athens named solan who was sort of this wise man of of athens he put into place all these incredible reforms ormes in athens like banning the practice of enslaving people for their debts <hes> he <hes> he <hes> expanded suffrage so that common people people could vote so really some of the initial reforms of democracy that remain in place today on and so once he put into place in athens he fled the country because he actually didn't want to be pressured and there was sort of like a contract like put these in place and period of ten years. You can't erase them in so he. He left part by the way about what he did. Napkins happens is definitely true and then he went to what rodman says he went to studies which is in modern day turkey and he met this king can crisis recess and the king sort of took him on a tour of his palace his riches and showed him like all his bars of gold and all his wealth and then at the end of the a tour he he said to seoul in king says who's the happiest man in the world and or sorry tuesday the happiest man i think it was who is the happiest man in the world and soren said you know he thought he'd like basically lead the witness and that he was going to get the answer like you must be because you have all this wealth and someone talked about the length of a person's life and how you can't measure a person's work on any given day and i think this is a lesson that like carey's fourth today by the way can creases into padding like terrible luck. He lost his son and sola named. You know this guy who had died. Heroically battle new oh survived by his children and grandchildren who remembered him while the general telus and increases really frustrated by that but of course his fortunes concerns and he ended up being very unlucky and so i think the lesson to carry forth is that we measure ourselves so much today in snapshots shots of time and these technology companies doing that everything. We're doing that everything we're looking at. How many likes we have on facebook or tweet we have twitter and that's not actually actually the measure of our value in our work over time right so it starts with looking at what's the value trading over the next five years of your life or the next ten years. It's a company you you know. Is it just about your quarterly profit or is it actually about like what dow you're creating for shareholders and your founders over a period longer period of time and i think you can extrapolate that out to like the idea of legacy or the idea of leaving heirlooms actually i i much prefer the airlines to legacy. We can go back to that. If you want better. I bet you don't we don't have to talk about so but this this idea that how we measure ourselves in this era because we can gather so much data in every increment commit like some little increments time we can look at like our heart rates in every second of every day of we want to so i really have to reverse resist the urge to be measuring ourselves and what we do based on these little increments and we have to be looking and taking a step back from that all that data that we gather to ask ourselves ourselves what we're really doing and what really matters yeah. It's true you know it's so the the data at some point will become helpful in will shed light on some some things that could prevent disease or or or show you that hey look you actually have a you know done anything but gone for more than a walk for three weeks and i want to get off the fucking couch aw right but that applies itself to a lot of different things which is like how do you how do you use it and how do you you know it's not a needle in a haystack. If you're just looking can get one needle and then one needle and then one needle. It's it's or i guess the signal the noise toy thing yeah exactly right. It's is it. What's the trend versus. What is it telling the second rape <hes> and yet yes. Let's talk about airlines yeah speaking of of them <hes> in in i think it was episode twenty of of this show <hes> it was called. How the hell are we gonna feed. Ten billion people we talked with <hes> fred iot of the land institute and you spent some time down there which is so awesome. Can you tell us how <hes> agriculture lends itself to to. <hes> you know this mantra of not cutting corners and <hes> looking forward to building in a better future. Yeah i had so much fun at the land. Institute hung out a lot with west jackson who was on the verge turning eighty at the time who is now her a glenn institute and talk about a visionary guy and so and also just really funny. He likes to say things like i have methodist in my madness <hes> so i think like what they're doing. There is really interesting right so what we're doing now. If you think about agriculture here we are you know we're gonna push nine billion people on the planet and we need to figure out how to feed them all and at the current rate were depleting spurt of soils around the world world and the way that most crops ground is to boost annual yields which is very by the way incremental measure of what they're worth like you know you can strip you can be mr penis soil and boosting fertilizers and irrigation using resources to get your crop for that given year but over time you might be eroding the ability of that land veep people in the future and so what i think is so interesting about what the land institute is doing is bringing this mentality i think of heirlooms and <hes> incestual troll thinking to what they're doing with for example they're interested in reclaiming some of the ecosystem of ancient prairie which can which has if these grains that are perennial and so they've brad perennial grains and tried to boost their annual yield so that they'll still be profitable for farmers in the short run to grow but <unk> <hes> so that those perennial grains have deeper roots that are anchoring the fertile topsoil requiring less fertilizer and irrigation to grow and trying to wed that really futuristic thinking about what's going to feed people in the future with what the present day demands of the market are and i find that to be a really creative way around this conundrum wear. Sometimes it's like well. We just need to do what's needed in the short term to stay afloat right. We need farmers to survive. We need to actually be able to people now but we need to bring in that kind of future. You're thinking and so i think sometimes there's ways to kind of combine those things into one and academia assertive more purse like individual example without these programs now that are linking lotteries with savings because <hes> it turns out that savings rates are really really low among low. It'll income americans for example. This is also true in a lot of other parts of the world and it's really hard for people to save but in those demographics you also find <hes> <hes> a fair number of people playing the lottery actually the lotteries like heavily subsidized by poor which is almost like a regressive tax people in our society or ending up paying government services by like playing the lottery and there's some creative groups out there including a group commonwealth based in boston that worked with folks like the michigan credit union league link to set up these schemes where people can by putting money into a savings account that get entered into these lotteries and there are cash prizes that are drawn on like every month or regularly in that prospect of winning something big now loris people into saving for their future and wow we're more gambling. They can't actually lose their money. They can only like pad their savings account and it just like takes. The interest in the interest gets put lottery system. I love that. I mean the lotteries. It's fiasco esco so there's some way of turning down at genius. Yeah i mean it's it's the idea been creative about recognizing that. There are a lot of short-term demands. There's a lot of we we do live in a culture of instant gratification. We need to do things at present right like some don't have a lot of resources to towards the future but through these kind of creative ways ways including perennial grains and this watery savings approach we can actually wed our future aspirations to what we need to do in the president aw hey brian. How are you enjoying. Our experience with anchor are a new publishing platform man. It has been such a nice improvement. It's it's the future like the first time i could order pizza from my phone. Remember that life should be this. Way feels like this is the future we were promised. Promised anchor has been at the light. It's free. It's easy as hell. It's everything you need to make a podcast a new one or an existing one like garza moved right over here so easy and it's on one place you can record and edit. They'll distribute your podcast everywhere on spotify apple podcast broadcast google. I mean all the all the places right yeah and great news can make money from your podcast revelation revelation. That's really nice so get out their the kids. Download the anchor app on whatever device you got and or go to anchor dot f._m. To get started who we talk about not having resources dedicate the future and if you look at where the money is you know if you look at fossil fuel subsidies and go like all we can <hes> we gotta you know phase out the electric vehicle. You know seventy five hundred dollars subsidy or whatever and you go like wait a minute. There's was a trillion dollars a year ago and a fossil fuels like we do have the resources for a lot of these things. They're just being like these institutionalized horrific wakes. Thanks <hes> which i recognize like it's going to be a battle and those i think we're on the way but it's so like there's money to be freed up. Money can't do everything but i don't know you you hope for from the ground up from the top down. We can start to get there so you mentioned this a little bit. It's it is it is rocky out there right. This book wouldn't exist if it if it did right the current climate or or the climate of literally the climate around us not our cultural climate but the actual climate and the climate of the last the last little ice age couple hundred thousand years. It's actually kind of a blip right. It's perfectly suited for for humans and we've fucking blown own it in about one hundred years but it's not just it's not just the environment under threat. The rest of the climate is as well right are these we we were like oh monarchy's archies name here. We're gonna try democracy. We ruined that as well some day. It's kind of cyclical but you actually spent some time in the book and i really liked this talking talking about how the failure of government of past great societies wasn't an an isn't necessarily inevitable inevitable and how past societies didn't have the tools we do and and this is what you mentioned now to track for example antibiotic resistance now we can or google flu or to lucas satellites at a deforestation live like day to day right so for example for better the worst. We've got he said lights now that can see everything every minute of the day and they can create use that information to create a historical oracle database <hes> like we were saying like all this data look at the long-term and then we have these powerful computers and these algorithms that can parse all of that weeks or years years of it and and we get this comprehensive looks the most comprehensive look we've ever had of all of these interconnected systems and then the computer says basically congrats. You ruined everything. You have eleven years to live right. I'm exactly true we did. It doesn't have to be we are. We've put ourselves in very tough spot even if for instance just on carbon if we stopped right now <hes> we would still it would get worse for a while because it's baked in but it isn't inevitable right. There's always joke about the <hes>. Have you ever heard the term the great filter being well. Oh man. I feel like we could hurt out on this for awhile. I'll send you the same thing. I think it's so i can't remember was a for me. I think it was part of fermi. Amis paradox like forty years ago and i wrote this ridiculous thing on associated ghostbusters with it because sure but the idea of the great filter is the question is is the first paradox was all right if they're all these and this was like forty years ago now we actually know all these extra planets are out there. If if if there's other life out there whoa i haven't we seen them right and there's all these answers. Which is there too far away. Nothing can go faster than light so we just haven't received that contact yet or by the time we receive it it. It was eight hundred million years ago like they're out of here or there's nothing else out there all these questions if they're one of the further rabbit holes if there's no one else out there why and again having all these incredible telescopes out there has taught us that there are actually plants in these habitable conditions are in these habitable zones the quote unquote goldilocks for they'll probably be a small enough planet. That's rocky and might be able to have water. Which is all we need but the question is if that's true now we know of more is there some sort of filter every civilization runs into that snuffs it out and is that do they get to the point where weapons are too powerful and they snafu themselves out like nuclear weapons. Is it anyways. Is it something else in the question. I'm for humanity has always been if let's say that theory is is cold water. Are we passed our great filter or we just not there yet and if the answer is apparently in the more people dig into this and you can really nerd out on it is was our great. If if we've already passed that great because we might survive this thing <hes> filter leaping from single cell to multi cell because more we find out about that more we found out how fucking random it wasn't impossible was that we got to that point or are we not to a great filter yet and and nukes are going to do it or climate change is going to do it if the idea is that everybody has one question is do you get past it <hes> but so i'm exaggerating only slightly but like you're saying it's it's a it's a choice is more for us than than ever before and i would love to hear more about that because i would love to know what the fuck we need to do to skirt back from that little railing on the side of the cliff that we've really backed ourselves up against yeah well. I love that way of thinking about it because it really it really forces you to reckon with the fact that there are threats we face that could be right. It could be existential all. We don't know for sure that they will be. We don't know what a great center is. I think that's <hes> the beauty of it but the the thought experiment the that kind of allows that i think the airmen not the filter sorry thanks to think about and and try to make actually i life <hes> life on earth better for as many as many creatures in ourselves as we as we can because it allows us to think about things that are not just existential essential but things that are pretty damn awful in general on too but so i mean i just i guess one of the things that i think about here is bat so i called so i call this the time we're living in a reckless age and it speaks to what you were saying because <hes> unlike you know like the people who were in pompeii before blue in seventy nine you know we actually have ways to read the warning signs like you were saying we have satellite measurements. We have the record of warming warm temperatures. We know the power nuclear weapons. We know <hes> the power of artificial intelligence in gene editing we can kinda like read the tea leaves much better than then then sort of previous civilizations that have been wiped out and so that gives us this incredible potential right and <hes> and the question is like how do we act on this predictive power is so strong but how do we actually act on the warning signs that we can save our civilizations. We can save what's best humanities so we can you know have a more just society a society that doesn't have start inequality in framing fraying the scenes into conflict which is i think where we're going right now and and so you can't like the reason we're reckless is because we actually have the evidence and we don't need to be acting on it. Fast now. <hes> that that said like what's implied there is that we have a choice because we have the knowledge and because we actually have the tools in a lotta cases to solve these problems and i think with climate change. It's very much much the case that we have the tools and when i use the word tool i don't mean just like the tech like we have the hardware i just i feel like people really it's expand their view that and a lot of it's about the potential -sential of how we're going to these problems communities and i think so so one of the problems right like why is it like we can have this knowledge of like the the polar ice caps melting and not act on it iraq me like no <hes> and see right like our forest disappearing and not act on it. I think one of the problems uh-huh is when we think about the future right like the future is in our minds like we don't touch it. We don't sense it. We don't smell it. <hes> we conjure it in our minds and and one of the beautiful things about being human is that we can conjure in our minds and you know if you talk to evolutionary psychologists biologists about this look of experiments. It seems like we're one of the only only if not the only species that can actually do this like literally imagine a future so when a squirrel future like by putting away not says moore instinctually programmed at john like vision future. You're like we have but we're not exceptionally good at it. Even though we can do it do it right and what we like. We're good imagining like i could win. The powerball or there might be a terrorist attack. His people remember all the images of nine eleven. There's a million movies about terrorist attacks but we're not so good with imagining things we haven't experienced like slow sea level rise that then makes storms really bad getting better at imagining it now that we've seen like hurricane sandy and we'd seen her brain. We've seen bangladesh flooding and and all of that but <hes> we're still like mike we're suffering from deficits imagination in how we think think about the future and what's possible and so i think a big part of how we act on this choice like this choice we have to like plan for the future and do better to a boy right the fate of these societies these civilizations that have collapsed throughout history even on our planet and probably on other planets for all we know is to like bridge imagination gap and <hes> part of what we have to do is not sanitize these threats to the future but also have visions of the future that our agency that so when we think about climate change for example a lot of times i feel like people only picture physical phenomena of like a a who flooded streets of miami which by the way you can see on a full moon anytime you want but <hes> or droughts and people being displaced and conflict in refugee crises icees and that is all realistic in terms of what could happen under climate change but i think if we want to actually get to the point where we're not just like turning away from these scenarios we have to to be also in envisioning what we can do differently and how our society could actually be a society that addresses this problem like we need to have the positive visions of solving the problem uh-huh and it's <hes> i think of it as like an engaged formative optimism. It's not like believing that the world's gonna be fine but it's like having a picture of what we want society to look like an stepping coming back from that to ask how we do it and it's one of the reasons why people are giving the green new deal such a hard time because they're saying it's gonna cost trillions of dollars at least on fox news. They're saying thing that which is a ridiculous proposition because not a policy proposal yet. It's just lyrical. Resolution rights asheville regional policy has to be put together on it and then on the other hand. You know people are saying it's trying to do too much and i understand the criticisms but what really compels me about it. Is that unlike other other other responses to climate change. We've had in the past either at a policy level or political level. <hes> that is is what i call like. It's like an aspirational vision. A pass society would solve major problems of inequality and climate change and involves picturing society is not just as it is now l. but as it could be it could be better so it's an animating vision that people can get behind with feeling like we have the agency to make the future a reality instead instead of just predicting like it's not just about the negative future right and it's not just about like things will be fine or we're going to keep things exactly the way they are because for a lot we know for a lot wide swath of our societies around the world things as they are are not good enough. We is incredibly simple and easy to say but we we have to harness that agency and use it because these lobsters that are going further up. The coast of northeast america are like boy water's warm wish probably move up to canada. They don't have any idea why it's happening or that's just going to get worse. We do and we can do something about it so we smarter than lobsters. That's like someone like take a pumper sticker. Modern lobsters mortaring lobsters. Let's go but like lobsters delicious so let slam so delicious new england so happy to have lobster and seeking lobster. I mean one of these. <hes> one of these like really inspiring stories of what we can do to act more like ancestors came from spending some time on the pacific coast of mexico with these lobster fishing villages. I was up and down the baja peninsula which was so so horrible. You know just having to hang out. She i now feel bad on these communities basically set up like their own way of collectively delete shepherding and heirloom which is lobster fishery. They've set up their own independent ways policing the fishery <hes> they're very careful about what they catch the size of lobster so that they don't take the breeding reading lobster out of the oceans <hes> and they're actively acting like ancestors with the resources the fishery and you hear all these stories around the world of fisheries big destroyed but there's actually actually people doing this the right way and showing that it's possible to to act in this way that that conserves what we had for future generations. It's out there right i mean yeah and and you know the the simpler version is in the less <hes> generational but someone has started to do something as you look at you know oslo. I think today <hes> remove the last parking spaces downtown <hes> because they said yep. We're gonna we're gonna. We're gonna fucking. Do this thing we're we're just gonna get rid of cars and they actually did an end and it's amazing and it's like we can we do it. We need to just start doing it. Yeah and i think it's important to talk about <hes>. I'm so glad you brought it up because i think we can feel like the scale of this crisis particularly the climate crisis but like many crisis we fail face <hes> is just so large instead it can feel so intimidating for one person to look at that and i think you look in an example in your and then you could just say oh well just oslo but as you amass all these examples if if you as you look around the world which i did for my book like you start to see that there's just like an incredible number of people and communities and businesses and organizations and even governments governments that are doing things that matter in that show show a model of how we can actually act in this way actually planned for the future in this way and in and what we need to do is learn from their example replicate them <hes> an at continue to to build right more examples of this so that they all become larger than the sum of the parts we can do. It just seems so easy <hes> yeah you know we mentioned it before. You're clearly the nightingale <hes> or or the oracle from the matrix. <hes> got about dot myself now. That's what we do here. You know what are you. What are the biggest obstacles that you run into you. Know where do you find yourself running running into the ground or or or things that you're running from one of my running from i haven't had to run from anything recently but you know i do think there's this tendency to to sanitize the threats of the future right because <hes> it's easier to focus on what's immediate not take seriously these threats of victor and so we have to. We have to find ways to help people take them more seriously. <hes> one that i came across that i wrote about was using using role play games to help communities right look really content with sea level rise. You give people a scenario and these games kind of occupied space between fiction and reality because people are willing to hugh kind of play the game so it's like you know if you go if you play monopoly like you're not actually like you're not gonna be like own atlantic avenue but like you suspend your disbelief for the game hold on. I'm pretty sure i'm the owner of atlantic avenue. Oh i'm so sorry i heard but so you know oh and then they're playing the game and then they realized that these scenarios after the game son there was a study in nature down on this is that people then feel engaged and they feel actually more are like they have an opportunity to plan for civil rights in their community. This is done in like <hes> several communities and so. I think there are ways to help people really engage with these scenarios the future in a way that makes them feel like there's something they can do about it and not just not just the victims in this doomsday. That's coming well on that note. I think <hes> we can start to work towards a how we can actually help folks <hes> take action. Give them a little little preview of the book to come a brand new. Take us through that yeah yeah of course we you know what we like to do is lay out some some <hes> ways that that our listeners can take action with their voice their vote and their dollar to help us support your mission and the our mission as a as a people <hes> so <hes>. Let's let's get into <unk>. How can our listeners honors <hes> support <hes> you with their voice. You know we like to if we can come up with some like big actionable specific question that we could be asking. Are you no local representatives <unk>. That could help support you yeah. I think we need to be asking our politicians candidates. We need to be asking them. What are they doing about problems. If they speak your generations what are they doing climate change tower they investing in education and what's their plan for not just the next generation but the generation after after that we need to be holding them accountable for what they do to act not just an immediate problems but on future problems so i mean one thing i wanna say about voting adding and i hope i'm not just going way off the rails of what you actually want here. Just what we do here really back in when you're thinking about voting especially in this upcoming upcoming presidential election do not like right like do not fall in the trap of failing to imagine what's possible. I feel like we are all reeling from the two thousand sixteen election still and with with duke reason <hes> but what's been what's happened happened in the past right is only so much of a precedent right. We're live in unprecedented times. We never could have seen or envisioned right russians interfering in social media to manipulator later elections. We're freezing unprecedented sea level rise <hes> and so don't let the inability to imagine something different than what we've seen before are in her political leadership. Keep you from <hes> embracing voting for candidates that end ideas that you believe are right for the society right like let's not regress <unk> a retreat to what we've known before <hes> so that i feel like is route just important like lens to put on your voting and how you think about it and and with those candidates right like we need to be really holding them accountable asking even at the local level of our candidates you know what what are the consequences of this policy going to be for the next generation like how should i be thinking talking about this <hes> for the future especially if you're young and <hes> even if you're not young you probably care so if you're listening to this you probably care so <hes> i would just say they like keep that lens of being an ancestor in in how you act and how you go and how you think about level. I think it's consumers as if you're if consume which you probably do we all do that's another way to really use <hes> your power like looking at companies that actually are thinking long term about their impacts impacts looking at at their supply chains to figure out how they can do better environmentally and socially. I think it matters a lot. I think we saw this with like nike and khun cabinet <unk> protests that day just responded to the fact that consumers have this incredible power outraged by what's what the n._f._l. Happy n._f._l. All treated kapernick for taking a knee to protest injustice and so i think that companies are responding to consumers who care and we need to continue to show them both that we care but then i also like. I bought a pair of nikes after that i was like for doing this. I think there are like different ways different. It's like depending on what you care about. When it comes to the teacher that you can find ways to support the companies that are actually acting on those values ya yeah that sounds about right. That's seems pretty specific to me and i don't. I'm not sure if we've ever really had a voting. <hes> sort of perspective perspective like that which i think is is really helpful. Which is you know. It goes back to earlier in the conversation. Which was you know. He's saying all these things when he was candidate and look he he did all of them after. Everyone said he's not really that. It's it's it's you use your imagination and and use it to imagine what would happen if he wins again but also to imagine like what what we can do. <hes> and that's what i thought there was a great article and obviously there's twenty candidates <hes> so everyone is still picking their own including myself. Off-putting loved kimber was new york times columnist. Who said i wanna live in elizabeth warren's america right it is it's it's taking that and going. Oh my god like what if we have that you know and and hers is obviously helpful to find specific about everything and that's great. She's got a plan for everything but is but if if you take a minute and you and you write a story in your mind about taking all those things and imagining okay four years from now like what could that feel like an it's like holy shit. I want to be there. Yeah i get it and and do that do that. Fine line who your person is and then of course everyone has to get online at the android. We're gonna die but about. It's like people aren't doing what you what you're saying. They're actually like they're asking themselves. Yes but who's electable breed about what happened right and i get it. We're all worried right like it's pretty fucking bad. You know we don't like this but we have to let our imaginations allow us to <hes> inhabit habit a world in which we a candidate wins that does what we actually want for american society what we want for the world and the reason i say that is that there's no guarantee. The past is going to be president. We don't know delectable. All we know is what we care about and how we want us to shape our society for the future and if we're not willing to imagine it ben. It's gonna become self fulfilling right. We're never going to have that reality sure it's insane to like use these precedents of of electability when the entire thing got thrown out last election right a. and literally anyone can be president but also like you said like we have to let ourselves do that and i'll use a phrase that has always stuck with me and and people give it shit or other inspired by it and i know this one is close to you because you're old. You're old boss but you know we have to have the audacity of hope try yeah. Josh turns out. He was pretty smart so weird right. Wow we blew it but it's true you have to go in there and and have that and go like i i want to be there. What do i have who do i have to put to for us to get there and from from from getting cars out of cities <hes> you know to punishing polluters to in civil rights to the whole thing you know. Who do i have to do and let yourself. Go like oh my god. I'm gonna work my ass off to get us there yeah and i think because we are in such a time of despair era where politics is broken climates forming were inequalities rising fees at the times where we actually need the courage to be that kind of have optimists sprite. We need it. It's more important than ever that we don't just retreat into. This incremental is unlike. Let's just make it less bad you know we this is when we lift start sites and i think i know if your listeners can be brave enough to lift their sites like that. I will feel like i did a little little mini nightingale gals on your incredible before we get to our don't call it a lightning round last questions and get you out of here. Just don't you pip your book for a minute. Here comes on august. The twenty seven i believe is the optimist telco comes out august twenty seven the labor day. This will come out probably right but what day of the week is that. We're coming out gradually seven you. Do you want us to come out the week before or that day up to you bet thanks great. I think i cannot the publicist when i walk out of here and if she says differently <hes> but that's a sense great to be clear you she might also say never never mind. She hasn't been listening so she doesn't know what i said. Let's get out of here. Brian take us home here all right first of all thank you so so so very much for being here today. Sorry about all the microphone stuff but you sound great and this has been wonderful so great right. You guys are great. I love you. You're awesome. Oh boy the feeling is mutual and maybe later when we figure out for sure when <hes> when we'll put the <hes> the episode up you can let us know if you have any ideas anybody else that you think that we could could talk to you mentioned. I think some organization the beginning of the discussion actually so if there's anything we can talk to world changes like yourself l. <hes> please let us know. I'm sure it can come up with a list for you absolutely perfect and here we go. This is the don't call it a lightning round lightning round final final questions if you're not we gotta find another name <hes> seventy five episodes letter a. b. No when was the first time in your life when you realized you the power of change or the power were to do something meaningful. I was seventeen and i had been a part of a program to in my small town in ohio twenty twenty thousand people a shadowed a city council member and she was kind of moderate. Maybe even a little bit republican <hes> and it turned out at the time that they were expecting to like talk to the high school students and tell them whatever the there was a proposal to drill for oil and the only woodland park in my town at the time and ended up mobilizing with a lot of other students <hes> a teacher of mine at school <hes> community members to block the the drilling of oil in the park and after having a pretty unanimous like pre vote to authorize drilling <hes> the ended up the initiative it ended up failing entirely and they didn't drop oil in the park a lot because of our organizing and it felt like wow this is like this is what you can do when you get people together together and when you care enough that is so read the prequel who is someone in your life that has positively impacted. You work in the past last six months in the past six months. Well i feel like my editor. <hes> jake more. It has just been a huge champion for and you know he's always talking about. He has kids and he's talking about his heirlooms now so he's really kind of embodied like he had to live with my book god bless them for very long time and edit the whole beast <hes> multiple times and so it's been really cool just hear him talk about it recently and have him be actually taking the practices and ideas and putting into action his own life and i guess i wasn't exactly expecting acting that but it's been kinda gratifying to feel like oh. There's all this potential for this book. I'll i also got to have another one. I edano anyway well. Do you want me to keep going go ahead. Give everyone else. There's going to be sitting there going. Who was it was me. Why didn't she say i now now right well. Jacquelyn no regrets who's the founder of acumen which does patient capital to help for people around the world start businesses. <hes> she just like she heard me talk. Ah gave a talk at ted and i think she'll bad for me because i had to give the very less talk of the whole week in vancouver and then she invited me to talk to a group of women in our home about my book and about the idea of being good ancestors and it was just like one of the most magical evenings at ever had in my life and i don't think i'll i mean no offense to you guys but i don't thank all ever be like talking about my book. They were so deeply engaged and so so ready to to take this kind of thinking into to all of us work from <hes> leading theater groups to running corporations and so i think jacqueline and also jacqueline i think she just likes sees sees this idea and sees my book in a way that like just gave me like this huge lift. It was like getting like a big boy of eric. You were like paragliding <unk> gliding or something those pretty awesome to be clear. If you had set us i would've said you need better. Friends would not have accepted that yeah no no chance by brian home here. Being what do you do when you feel overwhelmed. I like to call <hes> this. What's being time a lot of sometimes. I go to walden pond. I live about twenty minutes from walden pond. If it's summer go for an early morning swim before people get there and when i'm in walden communing with nature and being punished. I'm like being inspired the way the light goes through the water there. It looks like you're being you're like backlit on green screen. You're underwater. It's just easier superman energizing so for me like swimming. Has this like this ability to make me feel the power of like being able to glide through the water being able to do something and like get through whatever i'm going through my life but also this like incredible edible immersive relaxation. I feel like i'm like back in the womb being surrounded by something really really a like bigger than me photos of it. It's gorgeous. You have to go to walden. It's the bell cool coming around. You'll think it's super bowl. I'll tell call you when i'm not gonna be there from. She had a lot of fun to ask. What if you could amazon prime one book and i i i mean i think i might have the answer already figured amazon prime one book to donald trump. What would it be. Oh so many any options we've had passed a guests who were authors of books. <hes> say their books so don't feel bad if you want to. I don't know see a part of me wants to read. My book at a part of me doesn't because my book helps people think ahead and like make their plans for the future to do that. It's interesting because the russians bought the rights like a russian publishing company about gordon writes. My book and i was a little bit like do i hope putin. Do i want to read my books. Don't like i don't know <hes> with the all new back yeah exactly one buck doc. We've had coloring books the constitution and everything in between now. I just feel like i should have this on the tip of my tongue. I don't take it to shut up. Listening to the end of your episode comes out. I was trying to get through multiple ones. No no listen to two good ones most of two good ones brian mozart most of i think he even care. Does he read. Yes look the imagine. Someone's reading it to him or something like someone's reading to him. How about we start with something pretty basic level comprehension like the laura axe. It's so good yes which by the way i read to my niece the week of a few days after the presidential election of two thousand sixteen. I read it to my a three year old niece and i wept so i don't know how you could not be moved by that book but worth a try worth a try. It's a pretty good one. Well listen <hes> beena working listeners follow you on the internet. They can follow me at j._v. on twitter and check out the optimist telescope yeah. I think if you just google that you'll find me a book tour. I am starting in d._c. At politics and prose on the third of september than a party bookstore in boston on september fifth corps club in new york in september ninth and on from there brooklyn book festival boston book festival should be some other places places in other parts of the country to brian will just follow you wherever you go your personal assistant whatever you need. Let me now love to see you. You guys you can make it to any of the above we lay. I'll be in l._a. November to come to l. I mean it's over do away do we. What have you ever been to the summit l._a. The <hes> check it out. It seems like all all right. We gotta get out more at this has been fucking great a you so much for your time. We kept you for quite a while here in and for your book which i just devoured and loved. 'em clearly going to hand out to quite a lot of people who need it but not the people that i don't want to have to be very clear. That's right it is we don't need to weaponized but i hope it does awesome and the book tour is great and we really appreciate you thinking thinking this way and urging everyone else. Do you guys you guys are fantastic. You're so awesome. It's a lot of fun and i really love what you're doing. It means. I think it means a lot. It's it's making a difference. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in we hope this episode it has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking dog walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder. Please subscribe to our free email newsletter newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the internet you can find us on twitter at important portent not imp just so weird also on facebook and instagram at important not important pinterest and tumbler the same thing so check us <music> out follow us sheriffs like us you know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this and if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts keep the lights on on thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and our website important not important dot com thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed gene for our jam and music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thank guys.

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Fun Talk: I Can Be Quiet & Calm (But Rage is Consuming Me on the Inside)

Important, Not Important

47:28 min | 1 year ago

Fun Talk: I Can Be Quiet & Calm (But Rage is Consuming Me on the Inside)

"Welcome to fund talk. My name is Donovan a it's me. Brian calvert. Kennedy cool cocoa. And I enjoy this job in Brian does not. That's not true. That's an exaggeration. Welcome to another Friday. We're happy to be in your ear buds. It is a special day Brian to various special day why this special day because baseball baseball opening day. Don't know where your fun. I wasn't gonna chase down your IP address because that feels like a fucked up. Jacobs says thanks so much for episodes effort for better world to requests. I he would love to have Andrew Yang on our podcast. He is along what we are aiming for and would definitely be an interesting conversation, Brian who is Andrew Yang tell the people while he's an American entrepreneur, he's the founder of venture for America. And he's also running for president democratic presidential candidate for twenty twenty. What's his big thing? Do you know, I know because you just told me three minutes ago? He he is a proponent of universal basic income, which is does that Wikipedia pager reading off of have any details on what he when he was born. Yes, january. They're not looking for that like in for policy details specifically around universal basic income because there's a thousand different ways proposals on how to do it. I'm curious if you have details right there in front of you on the couch about what his specific proposal. I I might I might depending on your time Jammie just scroll through here. Here we go. Here's the deal. Okay. Andrew Young would implement a UB I called the freedom dividend UTI UBS. Yes. Right. Universal visiting. You just great when kids have them. They just don't it's kids. Yeah. Well, they don't wipe very well children rush off the toilet. But anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Young back to Andrea. He wants to give everybody a thousand dollars a month every American adult over the age of eighteen. So that's twelve grand. A year is is independent of of. If you have a job or any other factor. It would enable all Americans according to Andrew Yang to pay their bills educate themselves start businesses. Be more creative stay healthy relocate for work if necessary than the more time with their kids, and and so on and so forth. So is interesting. It's the thousand dollars for every adult over eighteen. Yes, does are there? Any details on children not that? I can see here. Interesting. I I would love to have this conversation. I mean, I think it's great. I think UBA in some fashion is going to be super important. Yeah. Because should straining also already has I there's been some really interesting progress on the democratic side with actual real and studied and cited research. About how to help the racial wealth gap in the US nightmares. Not specifically reparations, but how to do it going forward? And Cory Booker another candidate who we would love to get on. We'll work on is really interesting proposal. They come baby bonds, basically given each kid that is born lower income kids a little bit of money that would grow as they get older. And the amount of research is really fascinating. But does it grows? It is the money in like a bond based gain interest over time in out how much that would help by the time they're eighteen and that's why I was curious. But it's crazy. I mean. Stats out there on mangle. It think it's something like the the the median white family in America holds like ten times the wealth of the median black family. And that's why like it has to families. Keep starting. That's what happens we get older. We make new families like it would while it would make a big fucking difference. You know, we're like a thousand dollars for for for a white kid at birth like grown, that'd be a nice mount of money and not everyone gets some sort of inheritance. But what a difference maker that would be for for minority. Yeah. Right. So anyways, there's more details on that. Now. Maybe we'll get Cory Booker on the talk about that that pretty great such an interest. I feel like it's only since I only since we started doing this podcast that I even knew what a universal basic income one was, and you know, learned learned a bit about it. It just seems like yeah. I like it says here on the Yang's page this UB, I would permanently grow the economy by twelve to thirteen percent or two point five trillion dollars in the next six years only seems like a lot of short amount of time. Like, you know, what these numbers come from? I don't know. But it is just so very. Interesting. And then of course, I think to myself, we'll talk about of the Mon. Yes gesture. Sure, you could. Yup. You do have a job as far as we know for now employ anyways. So yeah, that's a great suggestion. We've got some feedback. It's going to be a we always get feedback Bill. You know, we don't need all of it. This was a good one. Because we are it is time to start cranking and trying to get some of these. Many many wonderful and varied presidential candidates on the line. Pete. Buttigieg took the Buddha GIC took the no fossil fuels pledge straight. So I can stop tweeting him are list of people that are not. I believe who do we got who is left? Let's see who has not taken the fucking pledge by now who has not taken the pledge. Let's see so far left is. Cory Booker is not which is super annoying Carmela Harrah's, not Harris's not knowing Bego as not taken it. Andrew Yang has not taken. Interestingly night. I'm not sure if there's any others, but I believe the rest of them. Have so porting to do it. So we don't think you're terrible person. Because that's a great great boost for your campaigns to not just someone who's taken that gas money. Yes. So hokey harassing them. Oh, and the Jacobson the note was. There's an app you like us. It's called off sense sense. C N T S as in the money sense. Not as in sixth sense got I see dead people. Supposedly helps you offset your carbon emissions by purchasing. Reductions checked and do it a little bit semi legit doesn't look super popular. But that is, you know, not specifically reason to judge it actual people that are behind it on Lincoln. I didn't reach out to any of them yet. I will do that. And find out what their story is. I will say Jacob and others. I do believe in purchasing carbon offsets some sort will put some research in the show notes about that. I've done I did a fair amount myself just because you know, I I've got a family, and we try to reduce our footprint as much as we can. We do have to fly sometimes to see family and things like that. We do a drive around in a minivan. Sometimes not too much. It's carry all of our many children in all their shit. And just like, you know, we got by a lot of food we buy food local. But of course, it's transportation. So try to do the right thing. People could say it's pissing in the wind. But to me, it's I don't know. I think it makes a difference. Anyways of all the different companies. I looked at us. Tera pass worth checking out Tara, Pat. Yeah. Yeah. They do a great job. And there's ways and I can't remember if it's Antero passes website. But I'll look it up where you can estimate your carbon footprint annually. You put in your family size, your grocery Bill. How many miles you drive in? What you drive how many miles you fly and where and it'll give you a pretty decent idea. How much clothing you buy a pretty decent idea of what your footprint is. And so these places will then work to offset them in a variety of different ways. Which part is what's interesting to me is what does that mean really has? What are you? Where's that money going? You're giving them out is a great question usually a few different ways some of them. Go. Me too like renewable energy projects. Yeah. Some of them will go to water restoration or things like that. A bunch of different ways. So or go to tree planting things like that. So or specific projects that are already existing like on industrial dairy farms or but duck, I think they say the average American. One person their carbon footprints something astronomical, right? Thirty thousand pounds of CO two years something like that. Which is a lot. You know, these people just got wipe the fuck out, Mozambique. It's like a ton. You know, maybe. Yeah. So you know, and to note, they haven't they basically put nothing out and they're the ones getting pounded. So once again, it's white peoples fought. So again, I get why to some it can seem like this drop in the bucket. But there are and there are some scams out there. I'm sure I'm sure it's America. But there are some companies doing good stuff. So I would encourage them him to check out Tara pass. And some more research will put some other research on wise important and best way to do it. And maybe try to get writing this down. Get Tara has people on the. On the phone. We'll do that. So they can tell us more about that. That makes it sound good. And how those things are calculated in how to do it for family or how to do for your business because turned up businesses use a lot of fucking energy. A lot of big. And do so anyways. Thank you, Jake. Appreciate that follow up. My my good friend crispy best friend the whole world. Yes. Tier one tier like tier links zero. He owns a company, and so aggressive of you is kind of you were gonna fucking say. Taught you I didn't even say, yeah. But you were gonna you always do he owned the company, and he has lots of employees that are all around the country and the world our times get out saying if I can ask all he has to they have to get together sometimes for retreats, and Kenyan insurance company can pay for the what the point is he always pies carbon offsets for all the flying that they do which I thought was really cool when I rent a car from enterprise my carbon offset for the car that I have for the few days. That's good. I like it seems like a good idea. I want to know what it actually goes into. But it seems smart. Well, that's the research goes into different places. So it's nice to know what it's doing where you're going. And then again as the wonderful. Dr Catherine Heo says it might seem annoying, but the single best thing you can do about climate change is to fucking talk about climate change. Right. So buy carbon offsets, and then make your friends feel terrible since they haven't done that yet. Yep. Anyways, fancy baseball. Everything is great. I'm really excited all moving on a fantasy baseball. Well, I mean, we're moving into it. I mentioned it a little bit a couple of players on this team Shishir show. We draft went pretty well took forever. Teddy was couldn't have been more bored than he was. Yes. Full ema. So quick he's lying on the floor and ally there for an hour, but doesn't even close his eyes are just opened because he's not giving any attention. Both thing we try to give him attention. The whole time in between figuring out how much to spend on on on human beings. Anyways. It's fun. It's like I have so few vices at this point in my life. And I'm sure my wife, you know, she's been putting up with me since two thousand eight what an angel while. I think there's something wrong with there's got to be sticking around. But at the same time, it's like she. I'm sure she's just like oh my God. How's that thing going on? How is it five hours? Like, yeah. But sets up six months if like this goes wrong, then the whole thing fucked, right? And also like what else could I be doing? I I could be I could be one of those guys. He's gonna go to every month. Oh god. Could you imagine? Or like drinking three nights a week, or I don't know. Other ships at super real. That's really knowing as well. I'm just saying this specific one it just doesn't. In retrospect, it doesn't seem like it's can you? I didn't even imagine you're married and your husband every month wants to go to for a weekend. Something would be up. It would be a what do you feel like you're as you're barreling towards marriage and fatherhood just rushing just rushing break breakneck reckless speed at time. What would you say this ticker are you're like always ends up? Here would be shipped to talk about. Oh, by it. Does vices at age thirty six. It's right there. Oh, it's right below fantasy baseball segue from that into that. We're already done fantasy baseball. You are really plowing through today. Wow. Boy. What would you say are your sort of? If you take a step back and be objective about yourself. Because one of my big things, I think I've mentioned before is like for myself. And I remember a member of buddy when he turned thirty which seems like a child to me now, and I was like twenty four getting drunk on his couch because that's what we did for his thirtieth birthday CT while his wife slept in the room next door, and he showed me all the places in his couch where he did. Hidden that she didn't know about awful. I was just like Kevin. What what the fuck man when we're living in New York. Yeah. And he was like, you know, I mean, it doesn't remember any of this to be clear, but he was just like I've just realized I am becoming more unecessarily like okay with who. I am. But like aware of who I am which I think takes awhile and to me thirty six I'm super wear, you know, like, I can be very list and project oriented is not that I don't like when it could be cold. It's. Strays just intervention. It's not like when plans changes just like sometimes predictability and things like that are very helpful in world, all these things. But yeah, I've recognized fancy baseball. But I've dropped also use like four fantasy football leagues and fantasy best fancy fucking hockey. Like, I was you know, all these things I've cut him back because of time. But like, this is one of my loves, and I realize like, yeah, that's knowing my working out, and my racist are annoying, you know, things like that. But to your your family, you're saying I mean often to me to be got. Okay. All of these things list is long. But I'm just curious if you've noticed now, what do you thirty five? I'm thirty five years old. Like if you could take a step back as you're like, oh someone's going to enter into a life with me. What are the things she's probably that's Brian sane when stone her friend? Because you never going to find someone who's like has. None has no thing. Of course, if there would be a crazy person. But like, you know, where you're just like this is me. Yeah. 'cause something's you're gonna change back shop like I said, I dropped all those things. So the day I moved in with my wife before is obviously before we married we've been doing long distance for like nine months. I think. Yeah. And I moved here. I went full office space, just like left. My job commander the day. I moved in April fifteenth, and it's coming up so baseball had just started like two weeks if even and oh, yes, yes. She walked into the room where I was sitting. And I had on the the baseball channel where you could. They're literally eight games on at once. Not that you could watch games. It's they're literally aka on at the same time on the same screen, and you could see in her face was just like I've made an enormous. They want. Could've been worse. You could have been walked in. I could have had a coke everywhere in the grand scheme of things my bag baseball and at the same time. I'm sure she's just like she could set fire to half the house. I'd be like that's fine. But the bruiser losing, right? Anyways. So I'm curious if you have to be honest with yourself and the people like what are your what are your things? I mean, it's so that baseball thing is so specific, but it's not just that like, I just listed off twelve other things entered it, another eleven sure sure, I guess, so you know, I mean, you know, I'm I always late to things. And so it's not just me. That's it's not to see. That's the thing that everybody that loves me of understands about me, I guess and puts up with which is so dumb of them. I feel like they. Well, I'm not like I don't ruin like things with the amount of late that I am just usually like is it the same degree of lateness. Like you offer me like literally fourteen minutes. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, that's not terrible terrible. But it's just like super annoying. And I and I don't understand how I continue to do that all all the time. Have you identified would you like to fix it? Are you interested in fixing it have you tried to or what those causes might be? I just feel like it's so it's like not even there's not there's nothing to like think about it. Just just leave the fucking house earlier. There's no reason that I can't there's no reason are you to just social obligations with other people. Or are you like I was supposed to be the gym half an hour. Like, are you like to work? I'm not toward. Okay, everyone if this isn't work, then check got it. I need to get here on time. I'm sorry. This is just an adjustment for me. Because it's so early. Land that many says a year into it. Have you been too late to work, and you had to rectify that or oh, yeah. I've been late to work enough times where they had to say like, you know, if you're late again, like we have to like give you like two days of spending or whatever. Okay. So for the most part, I'm on time door. Okay, ever. It's like I said it's never been a issue where something some big problem. No problem is this annoying. I think for everybody. Sure that knows me. So, but she's already good about that. And you know, and she she might be a couple minutes late shit too. So we're sort of on the same page. That's okay. I think I'm also extremely impatient. When it comes to a lot of things that I know that she like, what do you have specific? We'll just like all right? Sure. Last night. We are yesterday. We were going to meet a friend for a quick beer. And before he got there. We went to Zara a couple streets away to possibly find a new t shirt for her and she found it, and then I found one and it was like great. Let's get these real quick. And then there was one cashier forty people in line, and I mean instantly I just like went into rage mode. And she was just like all just wait in line. Like, you go meet him. And as we are not fucking waiting in this line. There's thirty people it's gonna take let's go and let me ask you this question. 'cause that's a specific one to you though, or anyone who's worked in the service industry. So they appreciate how the service interesting to be clear. I think everyone should work in the service industry understand how work and everyone would be a little more patient understanding, I think so what was your egg relations more just because you're generally impatient about things or because you were like this is not a well run operation. I mean, both for sure, but the main thing was just I can't I will not wait in this line for the amount of time. It's about to take. It's just not gonna happen. I can't do it. I will I'm going to be in a very bad mood the whole time. I just like let's just leave and she would have been very fine with just waiting on the line. So that's the thing. Where like we definitely because it happened several. You know, it happens all the time where I'm like she's like, hey, just calm down. And I'm like, I know I should. But I do you. To an extent, I can Saint stand there quietly and not can be quiet and be calm. But in my age, consuming you on the inside, and we were fucking parking at the farmer's market the other day, and I would she was driving. I was writing and it was so insane. And at one point she was just like, wow, you're so calm. I was like if I start to say one word, I am going to explode in this car. Like, I just need to sit here and fucking take it, and then let's get out. But I couldn't I could not and she was being pretty good about it. And it was just a something's wrong with me. Just thinking about it right now. So stressful. But it's interesting 'cause you weren't. The two things together. Like going to meet your buddy at the bar. You clearly weren't concerned that the waiting in the line was gonna make you late 'cause you're late. Right. And that's not the consideration. I mean, I was a little bit. But it was more. I mean, I was mostly concerned that I was just going to explode in the line 'cause I'm impatient. But I also didn't want to be too late for my friend. I don't I don't fucking want to be late. I never want to be. I don't like that's the thing is I don't ever go. Like, I don't look at my watch. And my cats gonna take twenty minutes to get there. And I'm giving myself thirty. I don't like my mind is never like. Well, fuck that he'll deal with it. Like it's never intentional like that. I just like, I don't know. I'm just a distracted person. And I always I don't know what I think I think I always think like, okay, I have ten minutes the the amount of time. It's gonna take me to get ready will be eight minutes. So then I'll leave on time fourteen minutes later, always takes longer than it's just my time management. I just is just off. So she's going to probably have to deal with that her whole life. Hey, Brian question. I'm listening you shower, right? What you clean your house? Yes. All right. What's happening? You're also barreling towards marriage and one would assume subsequently fatherhood if not in that order, correct? I guess what? Did he ask you question? Okay. The fourth question for for all of those things cleaning your body, which has become so nice cleaning your house, which I've never been to never been invited to and feeding and bathing your daughter. I don't have a child you can come over whenever you want. Sure. But for all of those things you want the best, right? You only use products that are deeply rooted in quality, transparency and community driven values. You want better stuff and yet to spend fewer dollars. Well, yes. Of course. Right. Let me tell you something when it comes to choosing a product that's better than the rest. Brian just one label matters. And it's brand Lewis. Okay. Let me tell you. Babies need such an unbelievable amount of stuff and so much stuff. And a lot of it has to be replenished often. And that means you go to hell, and that very specific Ellis sorting through applesauce diapers and wipes and facial scrubs. At a big box store like nine PM. It's a nightmare situation cures things. I'm interested in when it's nine or three or whatever. And I need family supplies organic fair trade vegan whenever possible not tested on animals. Nontoxic cleaners. I'm talking organic applesauce maple syrup olive oil green tea body wash lemon for Beena surface cleaning wipes, brownie mix. I mean, I'm not going to lower my stand body wash. Sounds nice. Also, I love brownies and all of sounds very very good. Is there something that you were trying to tell me though, do you know that I'm having a kid before? I know that I might make it doesn't matter. Here's the clincher. Right. I need that stuff. Now like yesterday and Brandis offers better few items like those at. A better price shipped directly to you, again, all very reasonable prices mean that actually sounds very interesting. I would just like to have a newborn now. So I could use grandma, but you haven't even heard the best part Brian Bryn Lewis gives back and gives you better way to join them every time you check out and buy diapers again. I cannot explain to you. How many diapers they need brand? This donates a meal to someone facing hunger bul. All right. That's awesome. I think I'm gonna call them gopher and we'll make baby right now. I love that. That's a spirit. So right now, our listeners can receive ten dollars off first orders of fifty dollars or more at Brandis. So go to brand Louis dot com, code listen. Start saving on high quality products. So be like me guys and gals. Don't wait a second long ago to Brown this dot com. Enter the code, listen and get ten dollars off your first order of fifty dollars or more and start enjoying high quality products. You deserve today. Well, that's the thing. And there's some things are just not going to change. I'm happy to work on things. I always try to work on things. Try to meet in the middle perfect sometimes to the things contradict sometimes they have nothing to do with each other. Yeah. Right. And so you do you have to recognize they're not going to change completely. And neither my because I'm also a monster. Maybe we can meet in the middle. Sometimes. Yes. And you still got to remind yourself, and you have those conversations. But yeah, it'd be great. If you got your time, I know. I mean, I'm like today. This morning alarm went off your only said mistake. Right. But I like I got out of her my girlfriend's bed to get ready. And I was like, oh, I'm definitely going to be on time to the fucking office actually already. Celebrate you got out of bed and your celebrate mistake number. Absolutely. Should I have nothing to earn this so far nothing? I just knew my head. I gave myself that time. I was like, oh, well, definitely leave you in twelve minutes. And then I'll have that half an hour to get there. And that out it'll I'll be like pulling up at nine like in the door. And I just like, you know, said goodbye chitchatted too long in the bed, and then I got my bike downstairs, and I was like oh that six minutes. Now, I'm definitely gonna be late. Just like just didn't it just didn't think about what the time went. Thinking yourself. Okay. If I leave right now, I'm on time. And then you just sit there and talk for five more minutes. Like, what am I thinking? No, I get it. I get it. But it's important because I bet maybe maybe I'm wrong here because I'm happy to mid I'm wrong all the time. My wife's like you. You gotta Mitch wrong. I'm like, I literally say, I don't know where I was wrong like five hundred times a day. Yeah. I recognize that did it take you a while to recognize that there was a pattern of being lateness and to to recognize that you're an idiot about it. Or was there a point where you were like making up reasons for it or or being indignant about it or things like that? It's all just seems like it takes awhile for self awareness. But that's just me. Right. No. It does. It does. No, I think deficts while especially if people are like so cool about it. I think if my whole life people were more pissed off at me all the time for being late. Then I feel like I would have known earlier in tried harder to fix it. But since the people I'm late for are, my friends, I feel like they're just like a little forgiving. And so when I might to something, and it doesn't seem like it mattered much Benham like, I guess, I think like, well, this was fine sort of sort of. I mean, I know it I know it matters to be on time. But if there's no like I need. I just be like, hey, yes. That's how I will respond to things. Interesting like to do that. No. I know. I know nobody does of course. And by the way, if you were I it would just make me more pissed off in the moment. You know, I would take it very bad. But then later, it'd be like all right come on. That was your fault. You're an idiot fucking show up on time. And this wouldn't have happened. That no lifetime of well. Who knows just saying at some point it becomes as? Yes. Yes. Yes. Parts. Are you got some other stuff on here? Denver. Exclamation point. Denver. I think we already talked about it a couple of fun tuxedo. But it's this Friday, and I'm just very excited. It's tomorrow. What is tomorrow Gongora ever? Okay. To be clear, you're on vacation last week and to no. You did a fun talk. Or are you doing morning show from a parking lot? I was gone for a day and a half. Sure. Okay. That's not a vacation because I went out to day and a half gone would be. Fucker? Right would California skiing mountain? I was so great. I'm so happy for you. So where are you going this weekend? Day for a little bit longer than a day and a half two days and a half. To Denver to hang out with my girlfriend and her sister a surprise for her birthday surprise her. Now, she hears this. It's not going to air until next week. True. It's just exciting. I just love going out of town. Don't do it a lot. I mean, I used to do it a lot. I used to do it a lot used to be a lot. And this is an mkx cited. It might snow all were there. It's Denver's just an awesome cities. You're my sister. She's there. Oh that was so nice beating her Alex's lemonade. Stand event this past September. Yeah. So that's going to be. I'm just excited. It's all you know, I I always work on the weekends. So getting off on a weekend. It's just like a when I'm not at work, and it's a Saturday. I'm just like, I just don't even know what to do with bell. Do you come back and go like I need to with this job immediately. It's such a good job that it's the perfect job that I want to quit. And yes, it's really nice being when you get back. And you're like, oh, I like that was what my weekend could be. I remember the day. I quit swimming in college. And I'd been swimming at five AM and four PM for like solo life, right? And I stopped my junior year five college because I wanted to have one year of real wood. What college feels like to not be collegiate athlete, just an entirely different experience. I remember sitting on my fraternity steps at like four ten pm fucking fraternity shut up. I'm trying to say sitting there and like some guys were going to like a lecture. Some guys are just throwing a football in the front yard not like ten guys playing a game. Just two guys aside to catch talk ends one of them SAFA points. Would you like to throw this to me, and I'll throw it back to you? And I just sat there going like this has been happening my entire life while I've been going back and forth phone. Black line. I was just like fuck me. And I don't regret the time. I did. But also definitely don't regret quitting. Yeah. Wow. Two different lives. I'm just saying you could live a. Different life. Yeah. My realtor. Friends have same issue. You do which is their days off like Tuesdays and Wednesdays because showing houses on the weekend. Yeah. Right. Which was they didn't really give a shit because it's not like at night until they started have kids. And then they were like. Fucking obligations and all that stuff. But you gotta be you got to sit there showing a house all day. And I don't even like what I'm not if I work on a Saturday. And I go out, and I'm like a social person on a Saturday. I like, I don't even necessarily like it because it's every everybody's everybody's out in every place is so packed. And it's in that way. I'm always like oh God. I'm so glad I'm just like to deal with the kids. Don't go anywhere. No, right. Yeah. Yeah. Or you doing we do? And I don't think I've made a dinner reservation later six fifteen in two yet. Go early. Yep. Yep. Still light up. Especially now, I love the daylight savings back this way, it should just be like this all the time. Do you see Europe boated to ditch fucking daylights? It. It's about time. What else you got here? High school friends in town so down K. Let's stay -cation didn't take off work. I went to school in a small town a few kids in my high school says John Mellencamp song. We're doing here. No. So these two girls alien Stephanie. They were like definitely part of my friend group and high school, and then after high school like I didn't I don't know we weren't close enough where we stayed friends or hung out. So I have no idea when I like saw them after like last except that we sort of randomly because I was going on a big Europe trip a few years ago. For a month. That was a month long vacation. That was nice. I remember that I buy saw them because they happen to be living in in Europe at that time. So that was really cool because it had just been years and years, and we caught up and they showed me around Budapest. And it was it was fucking great seeing somebody that used to be good friends with and then that was almost four years ago. And now they just came into town for the past couple of days. So four years later, I got to hang out with them again. One of them, very interesting. So she's she's been living in Florence. I believe summit some Italian city. I don't know. For awhile started, a company decided to move her company to London, and then some crazy shit happened with like going in and out of London. And that and that she got kicked out. She couldn't go to lunch. She can't go to London. She was Brexit Brexit. I dunno. If you guys have heard of it can't go to London while she was trying to get into London like took her, and she had to dealing so sorry, what she was in a took her the fucking we need to call people. She's fine Negga, but she was like in like a an airport like jail for two days, and then they sent her back to Italy. So now, it's like, I was just hearing this crazy story. I haven't heard any personal Brexit stories yet. So didn't even send her back to America this back to her well because she hadn't been yet. She had been shed lived in America like seven years, so they entered us back where she came from. So anyway, this Brexit's. Wild. Here's my thoughts personally affecting a friend of mine. Now, I'm interested. I told a friend of mine government buddy friend of the pod Thomas thing three months ago, only Brexit happened. It's been a fucking nightmare. Whole thing is should show. Trees may has just done a horrific job by the way, handling like a truly dumb fucking. The this whole thing is insane. Banks have totally left. They call the London's Wall Street areas called the city. Yeah. Just been fucking bailing to huge firms that have their headquarters international law firms. Everybody's bailing thirty gone. It's gone. It'd been to two and a half years. These places are going. We're gonna fuck out of here. This is crazy, right? I still don't think it actually happens. I think they're going to have another vote, and I said this before the fucking people's March and that crazy petition that was online last week. I don't I don't think it happens. I don't think they're going to be a work it out. And I'm pretty sure the European Union is like this isn't going to happen. You guys have really fuck this up. Gonna keep. Remake going back and going like could just do this your opinion is just like, no, we're not doing that. And she literally cannot win anything in our parliament has voted or deal down twice. And she was like what about a third time. And they were like. Same thing. Right. Right. No. It's like when my kid comes up to me, and he's like could I just have that other cookie? We're not to be clear, we should just stop this. Any argument you're gonna make are pleading the answers Justice going to be. And then it keeps going, and I'm like you didn't hear I'm not going to change my mind, and that's them. And I swear to got, hey, there's somebody said for, you know, very good chance wrong. But it feels like it's not gonna fucking happen. And then it's just gonna be like, oh, guess what all those banks and shit left on a fucking nightmare. Yeah. That just seems wild. You have your next thing on here. I dunno hung segue. This. I guess other things that are disappointing or aren't going. Well, like Brexit. You wrote? Jim I think that's the sad face on the said face what's going on. Well, you know, the past almost year you've been getting swell. I've been going to the gym pretty fucking regularly. And I want it's been like eight days since I've gone, and I'm in of void in my by it is soul. He went skiing for today. Well, no, I've been everything was great. I was going going going, and then I fell on my face on Saint Patrick's. That's that happened. That's right. And then I was like, well, I don't know if I want to go like, I dunno beast strain. You know, it's like cringe, and is possibly have took it a couple of days off. And then I had like a an ahead like a one day I left here too late. So I couldn't go your fall Monday. I had a shot us down in Orange County all day just kept on being too many. I've just been busy and I haven't been making the gym priority. And I'm an it's very sad. And I need I recognize now that I need to put it in a black. You know, it doesn't portent as eating is. Is there a place where people could write down the things that they're in times they're supposed to do things every day and organiz that in a linear fashion. It'd be nice. If our by our even I mean in some ways minute by minute mending on how I guess specifically in granular you wanna organize it. What is that is? That's a good question. What is that? What is that? Could that be called? Listen. There's just. Yeah. There is okay. And I need to do it better. Not criticizing. I'm just messing with you being. I get it being real, man. It's I down some of the other day at my adult softball game. Slow pitch softball game. Love it slow pitch. My buddy was saying like just the big nice underhand. Lob cake over sixteen king Lawrence feet. Nice is everybody just fucking crank in it. Then. Yeah. You got to be good fielders. Right. It's fun last on the same team now for nine years plus nine years to stick. Holy shit. Yeah. What keeps the ticks? It's pretty great hundreds of games of stats that so cool. We'll give each other shit about our fly ball percentages. He was saying he's in he's forty-three now or something like that got a couple of kids saying in worship he's been in forever. And I am I mean, I do empathize. Like if I take one day off, my body feels a little better running it back to it. If I take two days off. My my mind body are split fifty fifty. Yeah. And the I fifty percent is. What if we just never do it again ever because you've got to extra hours in your day? I don't know we could just. Marinate on that couch. And that sounds nice. What if we just it's so much work? What if you don't go there, and and you have to change, and you get shower pack, an extra pack. Just don't give rid of those running shoes of that stuff in your closet. You want to get rid of for a long time. Start to call them recon to that shit this shoes. Don't bring you joy. That shit has two days. But the other fifty percent is anxiety through the roof. Because my best therapy is fucking exercise specifically cardio stuff. And I don't fucking eat like, my tight just disappears. I don't sleep two days and part of me is super Noida because I would like to like take a fucking week off sometimes like after big raise for like a month of training. It'd be nice to just be cool. It my body would probably really appreciate that does not go. Well, it's hard. So I emphasize with like eight days do this darkness. You would come in here. Fucking curtains will be. Not pretty to be just like pizza, boxes everywhere. It's not feel. I don't feel good. I don't I feel weak. I know that when I go back all my all my numbers. They're gonna go way. Fucking my buddy. Be like I wa. I bother you've already lost. It doesn't matter anymore some cost him, man. It's not pretty again it. So what do we do? Are you going to go today? Yes. I am going to go to today. And I'm gonna go tomorrow before for Denver. I absolutely have to a fucking vacation accurate. But I don't you. Denver. Yeah. Great place, bring parachute. That's gonna do that bring a fucking shoes. And just go for a jog. No. I don't run will the. We've talked about us cardio your heart is like. Molasses cookies over there. Hey, I did a great job on the on the slopes on the trails on Monday, I down. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, what it does though, gene? Does what do can murders your thighs? Oh, yeah. Murder. Pretty creek. They were on fire for your woo. But yeah. So here's what at this is what grace says I need to do. And she might be right. Is he doesn't get out chances to knock it out in the morning. Just wake up and go. I get it over with not not get it over with like, it's bad love being there. But just if I all I do everyday is like, well, I'll go eleven and then eleven twelve I can go one I can go to I can literally for four hours go I can go the next hour. I've been saying this for here. Have you probably I don't I don't know. It's the best. There is no better feeling than getting it done. And this done you think like am I gonna make my own now, I'm not gonna make it now Madda myself do it and it's annoying because you're like, well, no, I haven't started the work or have other stuff. But then there's a whole the recipes, all yours. Yeah. That's I got shit to do. You want me to be doing things at nine AM, which I don't ever do. But at least by ten AM, I'm usually have stuff rolling out. So then if I have to do that at ten I got like wake up at eight the gym is going to be busy. I think son even out today who. It's a big lie this way change, but I need to you've got up at seven. Itchy your bar like a piece of peanut bars. Yup. Seven thirty. You're at the gym various seven thirty. You're at the gym you're out by nine. Yeah. Yeah. Do that. What if your day started at nine except you'd already finish that? Right. It'd be feel pretty fucking amazing. It really would let me tell you the first week of waking up early is awful. Yeah. And then all of a sudden you're going like, I have an extra hour and a half of every day. It's fucking credible. Wonder what the gym is like between seven thirty and nine I think fucking busy, which is super aggravating could be. But you don't know because you've never done. That's true. At that time, by the way, I get the people couple of my brothers. I think my old man was this way like doing their cardio at the end of the day ended wipe away the day. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But to me like again becomes a statistic. Like, if I don't do it earlier, it becomes a three percent chance that it's going to happen, which drives me insane. And I can just see that ticking down as the day goes on Schiphol's up and all of a sudden you look near oh, I have twenty six minutes, and it takes me twelve walk home. So. Thank you guys. It. Right. No. But you gotta find your way just got to plan on you got put in a calendar can do it. And then you've got to be on time for it. Like if you budget hour and a half or it and you show up like thirty because you like I got I don't need that hole in our. No that would really me, and I get I do all the fucking time. So that's a. Right. Well, I have a little bit of work to do at least have a plan. So that's good. And so I'm going to get back from Denver. It will be Monday. So we're starting Monday. Well, I'm gonna we're starting the new go first thing in the morning saying on Monday, I can't now it's eleven AM. I would also like to once again publicly. Cordially? Yes. I know invite you to train with me on Thursdays when you come to the I just don't think. I just don't think immediately. You said nothing that's going to happen. What is your wanna work out with? You're going to be every I'm gonna be I'm gonna feel weak next to you. I'm going to be in a weird place. That's not my gym here that you gotta break some boundaries get out there to something different. I don't know once a week. I'm asking you to give me an hour and a half. I I really appreciate you ask you your body and let me mold. Just saying then you wouldn't have to fuck. I gotta drive back and park my fucking stupid motorcycle. And then I got to go to the gym. I got is just do it finish all this shit and go wipe it away. Knock it out. It'd be great. That would be something wouldn't it? Thank you. My weight vests. Thank you for the invite. No, God, great. Love it smells, terrible. You're the worst. I think that's just about it. Gumma mom coming tonight. Going to be great kids. Love. It's will have some activities. We'll do some fun stuff got to meet her once that was nice. Yeah. Longtime ago, Longo whatever that's wonderful. I'm really glad to see my mom soon. As we great is your mom was she still in China and Hampshire. It's all it's over there somewhere. Nice job. As what I'm saying is jealousy to see your mom. Can wait don't steer that often. So gotta do its way it was giving my kids through like mum's gone. This can how often get to see my. Feel that's going to be really great makes them feel bad. Well, we love this place near Pasadena called discounts gardens. Yes, I've been there gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You guys went into the night time. Right. So the kids can just use all they can just fucking Bronco. Yeah. So this to them imagine how big that place feels right at tiny must be credible. Right. Yes. So try do that. Because it's supposed to be really nice. We we got some soccer practice. We've got some baseball games. We got some farmers market Elliott life. It's pretty great flood. Yeah. Pretty excited. That's really. That's better. We're forty five minutes. But do you think that's pretty good? Oh, that's good. So twenty five minutes or thirty session there five a lot. These people got now they like this one just reminder, you can send us feedback. Twitter important, not IMP you can check out Brian's. Weekday morning show. The best thing we do on Instagram. Gordon? Yesterday's was great today's interesting eleven to doesn't exist. Thursdays yard guys Thursdays are hard. So hard. Is it still mourning? That's question on these ghost. So check that out besting we do minute of your day. Give you a little pop news from Brian's perspective and can subscribe the newsletter important on Porton dot com. And you can also send us a E mail feedback to fun, talk and important on portent dot com. Have a great weekend. And we will talk to you on Tuesday by everyone.

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BONUS: After Dark #02

Important, Not Important

45:58 min | 2 years ago

BONUS: After Dark #02

"Welcome to important, not important. My name is Quinn Emmett. I and I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy. And this is we still don't have a name for this. Yeah. We came up with something, buddy. Had a good suggestion friend of the pod. Jeff Yan were suggestions is not not important. Not not important. Nice. Right. That's pretty in between. So maybe that's what we'll call it in less. There's a better suggestion. I bet there's something that's a little just cleaner and shorter everything. So what is shorter than not not important? That's three words. Yeah. How about one or two words like the whole every time I have to see one or two shorter than three. Thank you very much. Like, what will just like, I don't know. Fun, fun talk. That's that's a great fucking name fun talk. See I'm coming. I got shit left. And right. Yeah. You're you're just on fire today. You did have your first constructive feedback that we've used today not fucking say on a thing. That are audio is gonna listen to that just now today two years into this or whatever. That's not true. Is that what it feels like do this point whatever a year was fifty episode forty up less than a year? The point is. That's not a nice thing. This it's not just I'm just trying to just Josh you. I know I'm trying to be more constructive. And I had a couple of good ones today. They were good. They were getting in fact in one it wasn't even constructive. You said no do this sounds like, yeah. I can get off on that. Yes. A second one of these men. It's been a month still kind of feeling this out. But I feel like it's good. There's a lot of trying to timely stuff on the other ones. We're done with our partnership with three fourteen action and yet fucking election is barreling down on us recording. This it's twelve days out Gwen this goes up. I don't know few days so nine nine days, we've canvas together once awesome gonna go again on get out the vote weekend. Anyone wants to join us. We will be canvassing for Katie hill. I think right and district California district twenty five into it on Saturday, the third probably the morning and midday shifts. Because it is what's on the line again. Everything everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's great. She's trying to replace Steve Knight who's a fucking monster as Stor. Easter on in so many ways. So join us next one. That's just one person that you could go and go anywhere do anything. Please go to swing left dot org or go to vote save America. Find something to something. If you have a car of any sort not a fucking motorcycle. We don't want death on our hands here. Literally block out the six tell your tell your boss, you have explosive diarrhea, and you're just offered to drive people to the polls, whatever live. Great. I'll take you. What's it? What are they doing? Their lifts lists. To polling stations are free on on the sex everywhere. I look it up guys. I came up on my thing. So definitely in California. It's amazing, man. I saw something in North Dakota with a move the only polling place like four four miles out of town. These fucking bastards lift it was like, fine or Uber. I don't drive everybody in Hannity. These companies are not perfect. But I mean, at least they're doing something. And obviously. Every little bit makes it was something crazy like there was some some survey taken after I don't know if it was the last presidential election, or how many what was the reason why you didn't go, and it was like a lot of people that said the reason was transportation. So yeah, it's obscene transportation so broken in this country any ways in cars are expensive and getting and shit like that. But it's it's crazy. And the other reason is that it's on a fucking Tuesday in the middle of the week. And it's not a holiday. Yeah. When you start thinking about all the everything that you have to do to to be eligible and cast your vote. There's so many things that should just fucking white person. Yeah. Right. Right. It seems so unbelievably unnecessarily difficult. It almost makes it surprising. We get to fifty percent. But if and this is perfection, but if we automatic voter registration which bunch of states have started implement. Yeah. And I think would have to be on a state by state level. But what a difference that will make an. And then you made it either moved into a weekend, right or made it a holiday because right now, you're you're employers mandated federal mandate, I believe to give you two hours either people were afraid to ask for it. Or they just don't do it. Workplace. It's not it's not like you walk into work on that day and your boss is like all right, people, whatever the two hours you need today. Let me know now it's not anymore. I've worked it's never like this pig excited push down on you. It's just complaining on Facebook for a year. Don't go vote. You have a meeting with Barbara. You know, it's it's crazy so automatic voter registration. I don't know maybe stopped us in franchising, maybe color, and then either make it a holiday or move it to a weekend would just feels like it would be game changing. But we got to. None of those things are going to those are last things on listen are going to happen. If we don't. You know, make some drastic fucking progress on the six which again is you're hearing this days or or or whatever maybe less if you live in Illinois in Illinois six district. Yup. Go. Fivethirtyeight says it's a fucking toss up close. That's my home home district. Hope everybody that lives. There is kicking some acid doing something. They're saying today there's a too in five chance he wins. Yeah. Two and five chance at Sean Casten wins a person who is built clean energy with his bare hands. Got some more to twelve days to doing. Yeah. Yeah. We need that. So anyways, we'll be out there and Saturday the third anybody in LA around LA wants to join us to come kicks a mass. It's it's a it's empowering and Superfund Yemen. What else is going to all the news today? New York is taking a different tack suing Exxon Mobil. So the courts have all said all these cases that failed. Right. It's they basically say like this is enough to the courts, this should be legislative. Right. Right. Right. So it seems like we are if this isn't clear at this point not fucking lawyers or or schooled in any way. You and me we should we should bring him on in some way to talk about this. Maybe after this. We can find some. But they're taking a different tack. They're saying the defrauded their shareholders, which is interesting because that is a court, right? That does belong that is that is legal that is that let's get specific here in technical. That is a law thing that's law thing. And that's. You can't do that. And that so that's interesting because they've been lying this whole time when I'm curious to win. This case gets started or one of one the soup. However that works. Well, however stuff works in the in the courts since they're saying like, okay, you defrauded your shareholders does that mean that like do they need a bunch of their shareholders to step up? And be like, oh, yeah. We i'm. I think what I didn't read the whole article because we had so much shit to do today to a little business. But I think and maybe I'm wrong. I might be wrong in this. And we can check wall reading this. But I think maybe the New York state pension, which you know, did the whole thing we're divest from fossil fuels the past six months. They might be one of the shareholders. Oh, right. Okay. Or maybe someone else. Ask them to bring the suit. I don't know. But that's interesting because it's a totally different tech curious known else as taking it to this. But it it's compelling anxious to see both hot takes which are going to be terrible. Also, actual analysis of wire way, not this might work. But the they're asking for is all of basically, all of the money back defrauding people, which would be my God how much money I mean? That's it. That's that's by which would drive oil prices and gas prices through the roof. But also, I don't know we're gonna have some growing pains here. So hopefully fucking marks. Yeah. And maybe maybe if it does or show some signs of possibly being a better way to go. Then this whole start happening more and more cities across the country. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll take a few shareholders to stand up. I don't know. It'll be interesting again, we don't know what the fuck were talking about. But we usually do a lot more research into these things for we talk about them. But that's fun. Talk of not not important, which is apparently too long. Fun episode. You are for the first time reading ready player one guy. So awesome. How far into it? Are you like eleven chapters? What the fuck is. I don't even remember how many chapters it is a read that thing like twenty years ago. I don't know how many chapters are in full. But I would say I'm certainly still at the beginning. My buddy Nate is definitely listening to this is really is. No, I mean, he's he's. He's like our biggest fan and has also read that book like five thousand fucking times. So he knows exactly where you are. And what pager on eleven chapters. What was the most recent thing that happened? Oh, the biggest thing we just found out that weighed three or while. He's in the always a part of all his just found the key. He's the first one to be put on the the leaders board. You five years. Did you see the movie? Oh, great. And that like any idea what's going to happen? No, no. I have nothing. That's great. Which is which is like when it's the most exciting. It is one of those books that could be incredibly over hyped, and it is in some ways. But it's also one of the ones that if you if you were of the generation and of that sentimentality man doesn't live up to it. It's so specific is great. You haven't even hit like three quarters of the stuff the deeper. He gets that. Crazy. Yeah. The I think I may have set it off the air. But it just seems so cool. There's this this guy forgot his name. The author of the book is first novel. And it's like very clear that he just grew up in the eighties and loved the eighties. He loved all the music and the movies that that the main character mentions in the story. It's just like, so obviously personal and and it's just such a fun read such a fun read and of aside from the in the in the in twenty forty four in this in this fictional story earth has fucked, but this world that you can live in the always is just all I wanna do is for for that to be real. So I can be in it would you like to do that? Now. I would love to would you would you disappear into it. Yeah. I would disappear into a car and the junkyard like Wade and just fucking living that thing forever talk to me about. And let's say Guay how that applies to you moving in with your girlfriend at some point. I just gonna sell. How does how do those things go together? I wouldn't really do that. Because I actually have everything I have a happy life in the real world. But it also just sounds very exciting. Maybe she would sit next to me. And also. Be in the always come on. No. You can do whatever you want in the always is. You can also do you can't really do whatever you want real world. I get it anyway. But but nice transition that is very exciting to think about so is this on the docket. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. At some point. But in the but some point in the near future, very exciting. What's near future? What are we talking to people are hanging on your every word share? They sure are I don't know next year sometime we will have been dating for a long enough time for that to make sense. It's gonna be great. I'm excited. How are her? Parents feel about this. I think they're going to be really happy. Yeah. They're they're big. I'm big fans of theirs. And I'm pretty sure that their big face tubers Cooper's cards, which is very sweet, very sweet. And they're so sweet her dad called me and left a voicemail after booked. My recent commercial just saying great job. That's really hard to do way to go there. They're just insanely sweet thoughtful people. It's crazy. You should lock this up. I know very very excited, it's freight. Everything's great. A love it. That's we we're going to have to figure out like I'm not getting I woke up this morning. And the first you wake up on him, I guess right outside of the cat's meow n-. And then you just. Woo into my sleep like a lot. It was. So that we gotta take care of that before we move in for sure. Yeah. That feels like a diet thing. So we talked about this. So your diet as I remember it is water coffee pretty much like natural. You said natural organic which different things natural. Doesn't mean anything peanut butter. What do you want me to say? It's that is just peanuts ingredients peanuts. Ever were one of the Dave's breads delicious. They're so good. They're so the one with the green packaging. Yeah. Sure. And probably not a snack. Well, unless you're here in which case you do what was that pastry? Had today today, I had ice lemon poppy seed, what did they do in the blueberry? But you didn't like that very once. Okay. So we've got some carbs in the middle in the middle of the morning. Yep. And then lunches, you said, either whatever it is when we're together, which is something lemonade, usually. Yeah. Which is a bunch of veggies right or the body for at my house tuna tuna salad tuna homemade tuna salad almost all the only a few ingredients or a smoothie with as you said a way protein powder unclear the brand and another powder that quote unquote, helps your muscles which. Wow. Cheese and a banana and peanut butter and some and some ground up flaxseed and Chia seeds sometimes to bang. I wanna get the whole ones not the ground up once life because they go bad faster, and they'd not as potent. But they mix easier in my my shake. No, they don't do you do use a blender or shaker the neutral it then you just get the real one. You get the whole ones. They said they're much more shelf stable the ground up stuff goes rancid. They're not fridge. And they've been there forever. And I'm fine. So yeah, you definitely want to sort that before together for sure we'll continue to Annella to dissect. Otherwise, I think everything's good. We like each other. We like waking up together we have we like the same things to eat in the morning. What do you think are going to be her rational demands upon moving together things you're going to have to change give up? Being honest about yourself. I don't think I'm a pretty easy person to live with sure, but there's going to be there's always going to be thanks. I mean, you've been testing it out because you stayed each other's place lot. I'm just saying well when I moved in with now, my wife who for some reason, she's still here. So we moved right into we. We'd no need to we long distance stated we fucking pose the photos of you to that you guys posted yesterday. They're pretty good Mike God sorry. But holy only if we can put that. Two. So we moved right into gather, and she'd been house for like six months by herself hadn't planned on me existing in the world when she was like, welcome. You put your things down there. And you remember I like I like the room at the end of the house, and otherwise didn't look I lived there wasn't on the answering machine. I guess people don't know what answering machines anymore. I wasn't on that literally. Until after we moved out till the second will, that's amazing. But my nice little space the end. Basically the instruction was to not come out, basically, which you know, it is what it well. I mean, that's a different story when you James into her if she'd moved into mind that will moving. Yeah. I'm just saying there's going to be some things which is if you could get rid of that chair right review could not do I guess I'm really happy to that. I don't have to say like nor like shit to me that's normal. Like, she will never have to say to me. Like, hey, can you put the dishes in the dishwasher or hey when the trashes folk, and you take it out like little how come I fucking trashes been full for a week? I take. I'm here. One day a week, sometimes two maybe you hear all all day for you. I'll final take the fucking trash out. But I'm saying at my how am I home? It's not a thing that has to be mentioned because I just do it. You know, what I mean that so the so it's going to be some. I don't know. I'm not sure what it is. We we're both very good in those in that regard being cook for you. Do you clean up or does she clean up? She doesn't let me clean up. She like the kitchen is like her kingdom is it because she wanted to be or because she thinks that you think that's how she wants to know. She knows that. That's not how I want. What do you contribute in that space? What is your? I don't continued in the kitchen Nova. I'm saying so she heard two main is is kitchen. She makes easy amazing meals. She asked him on the social media the hearts or the likes. Thank you. What do you contribute on that level? That's equal to that. Right. I mean, that's equal equal. I don't know. I I'm asking I'm not part of your relationship would like to be I've asked to be. But what is what do you bring to the table? What am I bring love and sports specific? Tentpole thing. She's like, oh, I just I can't I cook for your like cook for him. What is she telling her girlfriends? Oh, he. Oh, well, what if she in bed? No, no. She doesn't tell her. I don't do it when she's around. I can I can suck them in. What does she tell her? I don't know. I do everything I do anything and everything all of the things I'm very thoughtful. I do things where people don't they didn't think that I would think to do that. Is this cat? What's his fucking cast name? Don't talk. Don't talk about my cat like that. What's his name? Her name is Stevie grace loves her. Is it your cat or both of your cat? My cat Fisher your cat for. Sure. Do you think a stipulation by moving together? We'll be if you could please get your cat. Stop vomiting everywhere in our new apartment house. I feel like that. Yeah. That could be house, whatever it is be a good that could be a stipulation, I'm working on it. Actively bought her the best food, and I no longer leave the food and water out for her to have whenever she wants even though she was good about not going crazy and give her smaller portions throughout the day that this is the issue. She can't help it sprint around like a maniac after she eats and drinks water. I don't know what the deal is. But she does it and she fucking runs around the house. I can ask all Bucs allergy thing. Or you think she's just kind of she might be. We'll baz. Cats, usually, she's cute. Are you going to get a car is that going to be a stipulation gotta give her the motorcycle? That's definitely gonna come before babies. You're not gonna make you. She's got a car. I'm talking about you want to ask you a question about the car. I want that fucking tesla you're still nine for it. Right. Or did you cancel it? I cancelled it. Can you move? The like what if I what if you move from your home? Can you take that charter thing with you that happen unclear we probably I think it just gets uninstalled? And I mean, you you definitely. I I would. I mean, it's not some really it's not like you're gonna be there forever. But I wonder if I don't think so it took them a couple hours to install that. I think. The run a new two forty line that is standard volts or the one ten whatever. Okay. That's your typical plugs. The two twenty or two forty whatever the fuck. It is is like what your dishwasher runs off. And your your washer dryer, double juice special line. You might have one in your garage righty, or whatever got it. Otherwise, they run a new one you can charge it with one twenty or one ten inches takes forever you? So you can get another one the regular one put in just got along cord, you gotta get an outdoor rated one or else fucking die you plug that in. But then you just kinda got a cord line around thing, we can pay more, and you can get the actual tesla charger thing that you saw my drive. Maybe I should just wait until I'm gonna go move somewhere where I'm going to be for a while. So that I'm not like getting it. Now just gonna pay for someone to your and pay for the thing, you're compete for somebody install it. And then you're gonna pay for someone to uninstall it and go install at your new house, which is like fine. But not necessary. You know? I gotta find out how folks 'cause I'm probably not gonna move into a house solve we had an apartment, and it's like where do I have thing? Install in my apartment in my fucking garage. Well, it depends on what the parking space outside of Parkinson's figure out parking stuff on gonna talk to the building. People might have an EV charging spot that would be cool unless there's more than two ease in your apartment, and they've got two spots in which case, you should tell them the world is ending. I have a cast you need more than two v spot. Yeah. Maybe there's a little thing is a little calendar on the wall. And new say, oh, I'm Brian. I'm fucking one. Oh nine and I get the charging from. Midnight to eight AM. I'll just take that slot. That'd be perfect. That's what I'm sleeping anyway. I'm sure no one else is going to want to charge their car. Same. Work it out just work it out come on. What are you? How about what do you wanna talk about? All this shit is what I wrote down. What's cars in books? Talk about that. We just talked. Gotta gotta gotta get. What else we do? We had a guest postpone. It's fine. I get it. They're busy. Crazy. Busy people trying to save the world. Usually when that happens. Also, they're very sweet about it. And totally and we talked to people in all different time zones all over the place. And this is literally the second out of how many have we done in these fucking thing or something like that second one to even postpone. No one's even ever cancelled feel pretty good about this. So that just reorganizes or days, we did a bunch of other little shit the business. Yeah, we recorded apple podcasts that you have a trailer. Swedish a trailer you can do a couple of different versions, and we do video trailer. Nobody wants to. That'd be so fun. I still think we need a Instagram stories morning show of Brian just literally a one minute. This is what's in the news. This is what you should focus on in the news today. I'm down for that. I think that can be really fun. I think it'd be great. We just have to decide what the thing is. Right. We should we should we should do it. We just always have to do is all on the list of here, we go do is basically either at night or in the morning one. We talked about this require you, waking up at these. Now our? I'm being on. I'm being constructive. And honest about it eight AM is a decent our eight on these coast. Yep. But I'm just saying you saying you're like oh decent. Our that's eight. I'm saying I'm saying the only five AM five AM to the west coast. Yeah. But I'm saying that's so the stories they live for twenty four hours or whatever. Because if you wake up at eight by time we recorded it's like eight thirty that's eleven thirty AM and these people like, I know what the fucking news is I've been wake for four hours. I'm on my lunch break, you know. And maybe they'll be down with it, whatever. So we have to decide what that single news item is the night before or in that morning. Maybe I send it to you for when you wake up, and I send you one minute script. I'm gonna play with it though. And then you, of course, you play with it. And then you just rock it out because people love your energy in the face. Asshole. But why not that'd be cool? That'd be cool. We should we should look into. We're very busy. You know, we talked about doing this. But but we're also trying to say focused, right? And not do too many things, you know, that doesn't cost us any money. Yeah. And it really doesn't cost us that much time. I mean, we'll take it'll take you ten minutes. Total due to the whole fucking thing. You might record it twice, and they post it. It's raw it's quick and easy right through a little morning. Good one. We need more. We need more Instagram followers. So we're working on shit. So that's part of the thing. We're undergoing sort of the second. Branding. Yeah. Part of the. Redoing our landing page which fucking off not even close to his bad as excited about the new one almost there. We're redoing the newsletter. So that looks and feels like everything else can redo the Instagram. So that looks and feels like everything else. There's like a frame what does that mean like a proper look and feel to use that new Kandeh whatever they told and you can set up you can put in like your brand kit into it. Like, hey, these are my colors, my Texan every instrument into this canvas. And then you make the design and then just post rate from there. So like when you see the onion post. Yeah. You don't even see the content. You see and go this young, right, obviously. I know I'm I'm looking at the thing. But if it just shows you feed you see it because it's got a frame to it of some sort and their logo. We don't even put our logo on it. Which is like that's not your fault. That's I just didn't even occurred to me because it's number sixty seven on my goddamn to do this. So do all those things hopefully in the next couple of weeks. That's all straight, just more cohesive. Yeah. I like those when you when you touch and feel the brand it's all the same. You get it. I think matters, especially if we now we're actually focusing on growing you want when people interact with it to be professional and not. Yeah. Hey, come grow and look at these act together things in this newsletter. I've been destroying a code on for a year. I'm excited. I I've always thought it looks good. But I hear what you're saying. I like the year perfectionist about it. Because it's important that it all looks. Sometimes it would drive me. Crazy people must think they must not be perfectionist about this. Oh, yeah. But that drives you crazy big. But the flip side is I am. It's just again were were combined to one and a half man shop plus steady who's just not even didn't even Chopin work today. Favorite is when you call me half, a man, no knows not have combined to one in bed because together. That's now I just want. I got it. And I didn't even mean this is the plug, but I just took a sip of coffee out of my important, unimportant, clean canteen. One hundred percent thinking, well, I made this two three days three hours ago. This is definitely not going to be warm, and it was still warm. Those things are pretty great. Pretty great. We I think do you can sort our subscribers by like most opens and most clicks rates them. I don't rate them the system does. And then you can segment the mount, so maybe I'll send those people like, hey, you get a discount at the store for being our most dedicated. Everything so trackable and traceable if not I mean, I guess it is but it's targeting I guess we're kind of arguing, but it's more just like, hey, thanks for forgiving shit point. We got new back end for the shivers stuff. So that'll grow now. So now in your newsletter. Again, it's like the hacked together version, you can see you get both your links, which is the link you used to share with people that will you can just drop it into your messages or slack or whatever the. Or you can click the other link, which is your thank you page slash sharing tools. You go to page, and it's got like a button to shared blasts that link out to all your Twitter, your Facebook, or or whatever. And it'll show you how you're doing. And the things you can earn along the way. Yeah. Bryan, even added forty four or you've successfully referred for whatever. So that'll be important as we go. There's a, you know. The best recommendations or is gonna come from people. You know, not some add air somewhere six citing trying to do. And then with this new system. We can also do giveaways, which is cool. So once it all looks and feels right? And we've got a working and all that stuff. We can do you know? Hey, we're giving away thousand bucks at the end of this week. Every new person you successfully refer is like an additional entry into the into the giveaway. Right, theoretically, a better chance because you've more entries in the total volume. So that'd be cool. Dry. Some more growers doesn't more hours more subscribers. Yeah. Going pretty well. We've done some tests for online. For like online ads not with. I mean with the world's smallest budget just to see how it works out. But it's really interesting test cases that we can then use to plan. More of a budget will live at that's cool. Young women really clicking through to the podcast, right, which is great important audience, obviously for the future because the rest of just go away. So that's interesting test and feel out to say like, oh, well, if now I know that nothing's aid area to be. But if I if I know that what if I increase that by ten x what would the ramification what were the result of that be that's pretty exciting. Or when we run a lead ad on Facebook lead at is like Brian scrolling through his feed looking like high school people posing pictures their step kid and Bryan Ryan. Ryan Brian season. That's like, you know newsletter. Most mad about climate change. Here's newsletter or keep you up to date and you click on a box pops up within the app free to you. Don't have to click out anywhere. Cops up form for you to put your Email in right there. That's pretty great. Yeah. And we tested that out and that was converting for really cheap, which means that people really into it audiences were pretty from. So that just means, you know, again, you look at it and go, oh, we'll put five x money into it. Right. That literally will get us this many subscribers. From a focus group that we've kind of picked. Yeah. You know, which is another way to grow and think about it. Nice. Sounds like we had some good stuff coming up. Yeah. We've got a bunch of awesome guests coming up. Let's look at some of these people we've recorded and we've got so this. Oh, yeah. Whether this comes out, what does matter this week's was was area wall been which was great because she is amazing. And was just a young woman who, you know, had sort of a pipe dream of working in science, and she was just too. She studied creative arts I think instead, and then that actually helped her get a job insci-. Douse pretty pretty awesome one. She's amazing. We've got another young woman who is figuring out how to take on bacteria from another point of view. We have another woman a person color. Scientists. We have another woman person of color, scientists trying to work on AI and medicine and her partner in crime another woman. Who's working on dementia? Gentlemen, work in agriculture. Try to catch on to your mind. A little we're trying to cut down on the guys. Yeah. I think we've I'm pretty proud of fifty three percent female for guests. That's recorded. That's not does not publish number. But that's how many we recorded fifty three percent or demographics by race. Could could be better. It's heavyweight at sixty something percent. But if we can get that better and better, that'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. More recommendations from people would be great. We ask our guests. We taking coming stuff we've had them find who really matters and love that love getting suggestions from guests that ended up panning out. So these people personal. Yeah, we're always taking those trying to do better trying to be transparent about those. We'll post those up on Instagram. So you can see what numbers look like we've let's see we got a couple of guys tomorrow talking about. How the gut interact with cancer treatment. We got a woman talking about nuclear waste in the ocean. Diversity in a? Medicinal records kids cancer. Feeding the world woman from the World Bank. Oh, we got some good stuff coming up some of the dopes things. I've got I can imagine. And we get these people to come on here and talk to us about it's it's incredible to me. Well, they're really excited to share their stuff, and they know that it's super important, and yeah, and there were growing we're sharing the message because the day-to-day should is mind numbing infuriating. But then all the sudden in IPC see report drops, and you go, wait a minute. This was going on the whole fucking time. Nobody's telling me, and you know, our message is a little bit or maiming for it to be kind of like, we know why you're here. We got you, right. We're gonna help you out. So anyways, that's everything that's coming on. That'll take us through the end of the calendar year, which is kind of crazy. And I can't believe that. I mean, it's not gonna matter of November six doesn't go. Well, well, sure, but we gotta keep hope alive. Live is just a lot. And we're just going to keep working phone banking everyday came Zing reaching so many people through here wild. Yeah. Pretty excited. All right. Thirty five minutes left. Pretty good. That's pretty good. You got any other thoughts? Thoughts are complaints. I really hate. When people sit on stairs. Like where any staircase? No matter where it is. The stair step is not a seat. It really gets me in the where else are you supposed to wait for whoever you're waiting for what anywhere else anywhere? That's not a fucking walkway as fair. That one really drives me nuts. I would say they should sit on the curb. But not in this town. I mean, you'll die. No, don't sit anywhere. Just use your feet and stand that's fair. Standing as good for you. Good for you. It's why I got stand up desk. I don't use it when we're recording because it would be a nightmare someone fall apart. I went to the the member foundation offices, and they have how's that going way way way? Let's talk about that for six thirty five minutes of it. You know, but you're like modeling, what's the story modeling could outta here. What are you doing? What we don't know. Exactly, my friend who's who's sort of a was hired to run. The like creative pursuits of of the foundation is still like working to figure out what they're like. Okay. With what they what they what ideas of his they're down to to work November's and six days, it's in six days. So are you guys going to figure that out before then? Yeah. But I mean what what are we talked about? Like, what are the options that you will do what's the point? They're they're not pivoting. They're expanding from just yes, they're attempting to to also mental health, right? Right. And just more of a not so much in in only masculine image. You know, and like not where a bunch of dudes look at our cool mustaches. It's like, you know, yes, we have a moustache. But my mom who cares about me? Doesn't have a moustache. And that's okay to talk to stuff, but we're trying to work on like, a little workout regimen. Okay. For for for one thing. So that'll be fun. I made some I made like a quick mockup of a workout routine that you could do from like, you know, your office or your your house. So your trainer now. It's an trainer. Okay. So that was cool. Yeah. We'll see. But anyway, the point is they have those cool things. I wanna get one for my house the desk is a normal desk. But then it's got like that you like add the piece I haven't Virginia. Yeah. That that makes it high enough. And I like that I won't want from my house. I think. Yeah. If you if you if you can do. Just the desk. If you don't already have a desk or something, right? Even for the desk is great. But those things are fantastic. Can remember what brand is one use? But it's super heavy just lifted right up some good idea. You know, it's interesting. I get the expanding. And I don't know what the rest of the actual informed conversation is expanding to beyond just the masculine side at the same time again, not the cancer side. But really more on the mental health side. Guys have so much work to do that. There's actually. An opportunity an impetus to just focus on guys, you know, in sure in the metoo world radio lab is doing a really interesting sort of series on this talking with the woman and having some really interesting conversations about the gray area in the me too world, and and how that's evolving and things like that and the role guys need to play from younger to older and their sons and things like that. Like the work we need to do there. That's very obvious and immediate. But also in the mental health side, you've got a personal thing. But it's also like who are the people who shoot everybody in America fucking wake guys. Right. And there's a lot of mental health issues there a lot of which we could have prevented whether it's through actually treating these people or preventing their access to things because we don't have a gun database, but my point is I guess there's a lot of work to do on that front, and it'd be interesting to see someone really take that head on. And be like, we're we were we got this. We're going to go after this. Yeah. And simplify focus as as opposed to opening up. I think there's opportunity for both. But I think there's really interesting opportunity in this moment specifically because guys guys are touching inappropriately and shooting inappropriate and white guys are responsible for just so many not great thing. And it'd be great if someone who's like that who's recognized because the mustaches and testicular cancer in touch to be well, we might be uniquely position to be like, let's have that proactive conversation takes proactive role. Yes. I don't know. Those are my outside thoughts. Nice. But yeah, I'm sure your workout is going to be great. All right. Well, that's interesting because exercises such a part of mental health. I mean, jeez. I gotta go fuck off. Conversation, by the way. My my wife will tell you in a heartbeat that if I don't exercise I may dick like anxiety through the roof. Don't sleep don't eat. And so what are you giving me shit for it, very important? It was kid. I was kidding. I was saying what an important thing that is one of the things starting a daily active lifestyle can commence in no way. A spokesman for them. I've ever foundations. Sounds like it. No, I'm not doesn't sound like it clued. Nobody nobody thinks. Oh, he's a spokesman for that. I don't talk about anything like that. I'm just happy to be mildly involved and support my friend. If you could book any commercial in the world to be the new face of something appeal. Right. Fuck. These people have been thing I've ever heard fucking. Let's say there was something else. Some that's out there. Like, what's your thing? Where you be like. Yeah. Like, the you love the USA port. There you use. You were just be so happy to be not just associated with. But like the face of like a product. Product or company or something? Let's get capitalistic about it. I don't know. I don't know. Is it fucking motorcycle? Is it your computer is it is it a music or channel or no? Maybe. Like how Seth Rogan became the voice of public transportation in his hometown in Canada. What is that true? I don't even fairly recently actually does happen, which is amazing. Like, you're now the face of your hometown yet. I mean, I I sort of I think about that for I remember actually really long time ago. My good friend, Brian, and my friend chat. And I all had we posed this question to each other because we were all like new to L A and trying to be commercials. And we were like, okay, right. If you'd always commercials and dumb products, but what would be a priority would actually be pumped to go out and sell. So I have thought about it before because I'm always in commercial selling was you don't care about. I think back think back then we were soup. We we like to net. Flicks a lot. I was like Netflix. It was like new and like sending you DVD's in the mail. And we were like, oh, this is the coolest idea ever. Like, this would be a good thing to be here. But yeah, as long as it's like, you know, like, I don't know. The I come to mind for me would be like like SpaceX. Yeah. That'd be pretty I don't know what they need a commercial for. But if they wanted to have a commercial for it out happily be like a the face of their company, Fred I would love to see the rationalization on like why they would pick you or just some other guy. All right, absolutely. As opposed to. Genius. Yeah. That's interesting. You know, something something like that. You know, what I would love to be inequality for our company. Look that. That'd be great. Yeah. We don't have the money for that. No. No, no, no, no. No. No. But you're low Instagram show could be that. Yeah, I'm happy that we should talk about start talking about that. I like it. Yeah. It's just gotta be like minimal effort. Minimum offered already doing the Instagram thing that could do. We'll we'll talk to the people about it. Yeah. We'll talk to the people. I should also do this right now, and we get off. So that's functioning what should our like if people want to send on top. Different questions. If people want to send in like user questions or feedback. We said last time we set up an Email address. And did not do that. Oh, yeah. Email address be you're gonna say. All right. So we could do like everybody does like online and stuff. Everybody does like ask at should be asked or something different. I mean needs to be easy to remember to. What's it gonna be at just important on a word? It's strictly for user listener subscriber feedback and questions, and can it be can it be? Hey, exclamation point. What like if I want to ask the question. I'd be like, hey, and then I would ask. So could it be like, hey, exclamation point at important on next. You can do. Hey should change that you could do. Hey, hey, it doesn't work out the exclamation point. Hey. Doc. Pretty good. We're having fun, and we're talking I'm not saying that it's like clever, but it's you know, what you're about to listen to. Well, we gotta decide because if people right now. Yeah, let's decide so we can tell them. Sometimes I think that going the direct clear route is the best route. Let's never my first option. I was always to say something stupid. But then it's like, oh, well, it should just be asked or question because that's like clear, but students seem so formal. Yeah. Questions or feedback or feedbacks boring? I wanted to be on. That's what I mean. Like what's something about like fun and talking? What what I my? What's your Gotha in my fucking? God says talk at important on important. That's my one, and then you have one, and then we can figure it out. Let's just do fun talk. You'll make you happy. All right. If you have questions that you would like to stay answer. This is not just like this is not technical support. Right. If you have those questions, please this is for either feedback or questions you want us to answer next, whatever the fuck or calling. This thing are you with like us to feature or talk about or guests hit us up. It's going to exist in a few minutes at fun talk at important important dot com. That's fun talk. F U N T A K at important, non portent dot com. I think this is a really not the Email that you we just came up with. But just the idea of answering question. From listeners is really cool. I'm excited be good. Because as much as we play them on the radio, we are not as we're more informed than most folks because it's our job. Right. And yet some of these questions are just bound fucking. Yeah. Or it could just be a great idea. We could go back to some of our guests. Maybe it's more work. We could go back to him. We could either send him an Email. We read the answer audio and send it to us. Doing it. Okay. I think that's an offer today. People please too late to register to vote now. Early vote fill out your ballot. It's not too late. Well, in a lot of places it is in a lot of days. It definitely is. But there are several states that you can still up until election day. That's amazing. Do you know, which ones I mean you? Yes. No. It doesn't matter Brian posted. He's been really good. Putting that online heels at you every day if it's your day the day before whatever register if you haven't registered already they're trying to take away your vote as someone online put today, if your vote doesn't matter whether fucking trying to take it away from you so bad that shit in Georgia with the fucking kidding. He's a month. He is a monster. Register early voting started. If you can vote early get it done that way, you're free to help out in other ways on the sixth. If you haven't filled in your absentee bell, and you've got one putting the fucking mail. Let's do the things they're not saying it came into late. And then if not a vote on remember six, and we will we will definitely do another one of these immediately after which will definitely I imagine. We'll involve. Inking both ways we're gonna open the fucking bourbon up there. All right. Thanks for listening. This was nightmare. Have a great day. I had fun. Okay. I don't know about a nightmare. That's great. Let's go. Find teddy.

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GOOD NEWS: How to Be A Better Ancestor

Important, Not Important

1:10:38 hr | 5 months ago

GOOD NEWS: How to Be A Better Ancestor

"Hey guys it's Quinn. We are back today in our good news. Series with a seriously actionable and helpful and revealing and dare. I say actually pleasurable way of looking at the world and that comes from our delightful conversation with being VINCA trauman. She is the editor of the Boston Globe. So detoro page and the author of the optimists telescope thinking ahead in a reckless age Which yes seems insane right now. Of course it was written and even released before Kovic showed up put it is actually even more applicable now than ever Chaos is not going anywhere If a failure to plan and to execute on a theoretical plan or to capitalize on anything forgetting all the negligence. Whatever if all says. We've got us into this position being asks. How might we mitigate losses caused by shortsightedness? Which feels pretty damn appropriate. If you want some council in figuring out how to play in your own future your families or your company's how does not necessarily the plane to take but what are the guideposts. You should be using up. Let this conversation and been as Awesome Book. Be a starter guide in asking better questions. Enjoy welcome to important not important. My name is Quinn. It and I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy this is the podcast where we dive into a specific topic or question affecting everyone on the planet right now in the next ten years kind of the entire point at today's conversation It can kill us for most of us or turn us into data from Star Trek. We are in our guests. Are Scientists. Doctors. Engineers POLITICIANS ASTRONAUTS. Even a reverend and we worked words. action steps. Our listeners can take their voice their vote and their dollar friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts feed-back drawings on all mostly cookies to us on twitter at important not in or email us at fun talk at important not important dot com and you can actually also leave us a you know complementary or threatening voice messages at the. Lincoln are shown to be clear. You can't send cookies Danny of these things but if you make great cookies send us a note and we'll give you the correct address. Mean you'll go so you can go pick them up. You can also join thousands of other smart people and subscribe to our free weekly. Newsletter comes out Friday most of the time at important non important DOT com. This week's episode is talking about how crazy shit is out there. We've recognized that we see you but despite all of that turns out you can actually Plan for the future and save the world at the same time amazing. We have with us this week. A Beena Venkataraman. She's the author of the forthcoming book. The optimists telescope is Great Bryan actually found out that not a real telescope body was telescope. he was a little bit but he's excited again because as awesome. She really was fantastic. And I'm excited for this book and I love that. She wants to the episodes great. We used to do that. And people didn't like that. Yeah right right and I was about to again. They would say. Why did you talk about it when you're about to talk about it? We were young. We didn't know that was years ago. Okay here we go. Let's go talk to being okay. Our guest today's Beena Venkataraman and together. We're GONNA talk about planning for chaos strategies when it's basically mad Max out there be welcome. Thank you so happy to be here. We are very happy. Have you being if you don't mind? Why don't you tell anybody who you are and what you do? Sure I'm trauman. I'm the author of the optimus telescope thinking ahead in a reckless age new book and I teach in the program on science technology and society at Mit where brainwash young college students. Perfect you one of those people like a good brainwashing mill. Right right right it's different good brainwashing straight. That's what Lennon bought too but No that sounds great. We yeah we're again. We're so happy to have is going to be a great Combo then just as a reminder to everyone and so you know I don't know if we talked about it before the before reporting We're just GONNA go over some. Oh we did great. I was listening. We're going to go over some Context for our for our question Our topic today and then dig and do some Action oriented questions that get to the core of why we should all care about it and you and what we can all do to support you sound. Good it's great awesome beano. We'd like to start with one important question to set the tone for things and I know you said you listen to some episodes of one. My apologies For All that time you can never get back to. You cheated a little bit but if you could just tell us why you are vital to the survival of the species am I know I. I think I'm I'm vital. Because everyone's vital to the survival species. I think to be alive today. We're facing critical tipping points. The Melting Arctic the rising seas We're all right. If you think about us in the fabric of time if you think about the generations of people alive today we have such extraordinary power to shape the future we have such extraordinary power To do things at scale the scale of the planet and we know about what we're doing we know the half-life of our radioactive as we know How long are pollution is going to linger in the atmosphere and heat up the planet. And so I think is one among many It's it's sort of like we all have to act. It's going to take action other levels to do something about it. That said I just had a friend. Tell me she said you need to be the nightingale. Like what a did like. She was smoking something and she wasn't sure sober and what she said. Was you need to sing the song that people feel in their hearts that haven't yet brought into sound into words? Sure wasn't smoking. I'm sure but you know this idea. And she said that's how the revolution starts about was how she ended it like L. Singing to another nine going on. It's like no pressure. Just have to the song that's in people's hearts but I can think of like the ideal case of of the book I just wrote. I mean yeah I hope I am like bring two words and bringing into action by the deepest highest aspirations that we have to actually care for the feature actually be good ancestors for future generations be remembered as the people who who actually saved the planet instead of instead of cursing. It said something in there. I'M GONNA come back to bum not gonNA give it away yet but I'm curious And maybe I should ask your friend us but I WANNA ask you. Why do you feel before we get into things? Why do you feel uniquely suited to be the nightingale to do this specific job to write this book and Brainwash these young people? Why you if not me then who I think. I think I've been. I've been thinking about the future and I've been connected to. I guess I've felt the connection between the fate of humanity the fate of the planet as something that I I mean I just sort of grew up with an intuitive sense of that and I've been thinking about it acting to try to address it for basically my entire professional life in one way or another Though it's looked very different depending on where I've been I've been in government or thin journalists in a news room And so I think one of the things that I bring to. The table is a sense of connecting. What we actually believe in sort of value and WANNA do as human beings and not being willing to accept that. The way that we're doing things now is how it has to be. I actually think that we have far greater capacity than we give ourselves credit for as individuals as communities and as a society and so I think it's a combination of my stubbornness to accept the world as it is and my I guess. Creativity and passion to to make a difference. I love that. I've I feel stubbornness is pretty necessary. These days. You know things are going down the pipe pretty quickly in a lot of directions and we need people who are just like no. It's not it's not gonNA fucking happen right. I'M GONNA stay in every way of this. It's the it's it's the Lord of the Rings. You shall not pass right totally. I need a kid like that and or Brian will definitely make you a cape and maybe a beard I can grow beards. Yeah different PODCAST. We can get into it but your staff. That GLOWS ON DEMAND. For sure and yeah. I'm into it So I love that. Let let's talk a little bit about our little context for today and as usual and everybody else knows as like a very poorly put together and not edited wikipedia article like the old wikipedia in your parents like. You can't use that for your homework. It's not reliable. Usually I go into a to sort of generalists take on some technical subject of which I've just learned like Pediatric cancer or ocean acidification or The relatively successful standardization of British health records or some monsoon or less monkey it could be more contextual history or sort of in a monologue on ethics about a recurring decker spoiler. Why we it's insane that we keep having to tell people that we need more young women and people of Color in science because how the fuck is that not obvious by now but instead of that today I think we just get right into it because if you if you listen to this podcast if you're cognitively awake technically in any capacity you're seeing and hearing and feeling some as we like to say existential ish shit that's probably stressing you the fuck out every day like the rest of us. How do you deal right now? More importantly for today. How the hell are you supposed to plan for completely unpredictable? Sure look stark out their future. You probably end your day like a lot of other folks Binging something like handmaid's Taylor Black Mirror and five years ago. You're like boy that's scary and now you're like that doesn't look bad compared to fucking twitter today and and that's why. I'm thankful for people like being on and to have this conversation today because she is Clearly the expert and after reading the book I feel in such safer hands that she's going to plan everything else for me for for planning for for all this chaos being. I I have to say there. There's one thing that that stood out to me very early so we talk to a lot of exceptional individuals on the show and many are driven to do what they do. Not for profit or fame. Those are sometimes not always byproducts of their work. They do them for good. Because it's the right thing to do either. Create a better future or prevent a much worse one and so sometimes since we're always pushing towards action and trying to practically inspire folks and young listeners. Alaska something like a specific relationship you can point to that was a catalyst for your actions to get you. Where are today but before I ask you that or instead. Could you first tell me to read for us the dedication in your book that that first page sure it's for my parents who crossed oceans for the sake of the future I love that so much to me. It is the perfect encapsulation of what parents do for their children. But at the same time the task before us so I would love if you talk to me a little bit about how your parents have informed your work and life thus far in why they have inspired you to continue to look down the road. Yeah thank you and thanks for sharing that you feel that way as well but My parents came to this country. My Dad in particular came to the US from south India. He was the person family to come at a time. When he couldn't afford to call home he would send letters or telegrams back home that would you know there sort of like weeks that went in between hearing from his parents When he came so he has kind of typical. Or let's say stereotypical American Dream Story. He came with seven dollars in his pocket. Why is everyone has seven dollars? I JUST WANNA know. Just give them an envelope working right. Yeah and he didn't have. You didn't have a driver's license. But he realized at some point 'cause he was in Toledo Ohio that He needed to be able to drive a car and so he went to look at. This woman used car and she was like okay. Whatever like one hundred dollars whatever it was when he finally how money and he said okay. I'll buy it but you have to teach me how to drive So he did like. He had some incredible people who helped him along the way. And My mom came over years later They had an arranged marriage that crashed and burned about another story for another podcast but Also I in her family to to live in the United States and so they they were both just so pure future oriented how they raised us. They my sister die. They add everything was invested in our future. Education otherwise They've always sort of. They were the kinds of parents that would sacrifice their own comforts and things that they wanted to to make. Sure that my sister and I would do well in the world and With my mom that really manifested ally in her like being number one cheerleader. My mom is a physicist. So she's not she's she was not at all like sort of the kind of mom who had like low standards or was like late but she she was a college professor. She goes brought really interesting students and faculty homes. There were in a really interesting speakers that would go to her college. She would always make sure she dragged me along the here. Bill mckibben come speak at the college of wooster or Jane Goodall and she just was like my biggest challenge should remain so today. I love that I've got a few small crazy children in my life and I joke. Sometimes you know they're going to grow up and say dead. What did you do when when the chips are on the line and the apocalypse US coming and I'll say I started a podcast and there'll be horrified at my level of commitment but hat the nightingale? Now nobody wants that. Thank you but it it does. It does stick with me though. You know 'cause they're old enough to start asking. Oh my God so many questions but at the same time you know who who crossed oceans were stuck with me. Because that's what we tried to every day right right and I think there's a lot in our culture right now that's encouraging us to sort of focus on the immediate and part of it is. I think our dread about the future. It's sort of like well if the world's going to hell in a handbasket. Is You guys? Put it just going to get what's mine here now. But there's so many of us whether we're parents people who just aware of the future who really are willing to and have the aspiration across oceans for the sake of future and I think it's sort of like we're kind of at odds with where culture and society is at the moment but I actually think there's a huge potential to actually take that what our aspiration is. Make it reality and your story. Airline reminds me of one of the posters. I saw I was in. Dc for the climate march. That happened in April. Twenty seventeen soon after the The trump presidential election and there was this beautiful Prison POSTER OF FATHER. Sitting on a chair and kid and they're sort of been scuba suits like steam punk style scuba suits and he says the kid says Daddy. Where were you during the climate wars? So yeah that really That images stayed with me Yeah I mean. It's that kind of provocative shit that's going to stick with people and and really start the fight right. I mean everybody loves after all these protests with it's science or the women's March or whatever those signs where people go. Wow they just they just went out there and carry that sign around That's okay I guess that's where we are as people are that fed up that they're willing to go right this or that or whatever it might be. Yeah we have to. We can't mince words anymore. And I just loved your. You're writing much before we really get into the meat of the book. But there's something that did stick with me on this sort of again long-term long-term sort of ethos of the whole thing and and you you said it before there's there's a phrase in there and it's also in the intro from your publisher that they sent along Which is what if even in this reckless age we choose to value the future and become quote unquote better ancestors. I love that because it implies not only what we've been talking about which is forward thinking but the idea of making leap to the future and then looking back and asking what sort of legacy do I want to leave. You know if people later are building on our shoulders like what are those shoulders made up. What did what did we would. We do to to move this along for this comes to mind like for Mitch McConnell. It would be something like you know bankrupting democracy and the only livable planet that we're aware of Until you know some futuristic seafaring nation arises from the seas Over what will you know? Used to be New York to give representative government another shot but for someone else. It could be something differently. Motto McConnell is an innovative. You have to give it you know again. I'm not sure he's capable of this kind of thing. I mean the truth frontal CORTEX but But what does it mean to you as mantra? And he's like this is what I want my children to think I was made of. So what is what does that phrase mean to you and and and practically as again. We're working towards practicality. How does that influence your own long-term planning? Yeah I mean. I think it's a Lens I use with a lot of the decisions. I make Personally but mostly in my work and you know it's interesting because I don't have kids and I decided not to have kids but I by the way I have like seven Godchildren two nieces enough. I'm bunch of nieces and nephews yet. Bunch young people whose feature I'm personally invested but also I sort of see my roles. Ancestor is much more about our shared. Future like all of our children and grandchildren and I see that the role I need to play is about nurturing the future but in a much more broader sense of our community and It's why I work on problems. Like climate change. It's why I think about and write about tools like gene editing which I think have incredible potential to be heirlooms that we we've to the future because if those that knowledge in his tools can use to prevent and and cure disease. That's great but it's also sort of a kind of airline that you have to think about carefully do not You know we could for example Edit out traits out of the entire human species like we have that power and capacity to change the whole feature of our species when we hold up power we need to think of it as ancestors the end that means not just thinking. About what diseases are we going to cure today? How we're going to engineer the perfect embryo so the next child's owners is perfect in Xyz Way. We actually have to be thinking about it from the perspective of like. What does that do to the human? Genetic cool are decreasing diversity. How are we going to change? Have what are the essential unintended consequences of using technologies like that? So I think thinking of yourself as an ancestor also automatically kicks in like the kind of thinking. The trump administration doesn't wants to do right now when they are trying to get the national climate assessment not to look at climate models beyond the year. Twenty forty when you think of yourself as an ancestor. You're thinking beyond your the lives of your children and grandchildren In my case my nieces and their children and so it automatically implicates me in what happens in twenty fifty and beyond and when we think about The seas rising in Miami. Or we think about frequent droughts or floods the kinds of impacts that are predicted in warming climate. When I'm ancestor right my decisions today actually matter. It doesn't matter the fact that that those consequences are coming in. The distant future doesn't mean I can discount them the way that you know. Economists and policymakers talk about discounting future. I can't discount them that way. Like it's not a cold hearted calculation because I actually have obligations in values to those I actually have obligations and I have like a deep deeply held value to care for and steward resources like heirlooms to those generate future generations. And I hope you're going to edit me so I sound better. I'm sorry like you kidding me. Just ask you up. We're just going to speed it up really fast meeting but you know the thing is like this. Sounds like this might sound like pie in the sky or like. I'm like a super idealistic to thinking in sense way but the reality is it's kind foundational universal value and you can go back to Thomas Jefferson. Who talked about Leaving resources to the future unencumbered by the predecessors so we should be extorting things for future generations. Teddy Roosevelt spoke about not letting present-day minority Squander resources that belong to the future Edmond Burke who was this Irish political philosopher. Who is kind of the godfather of conservatism wrote about society? Actual ideas. Society was a partnership among generations There are these concepts the public trust doctrine that are through in democratic constitutions on multiple continents the idea behind the public trust doctrine is that there are certain resources that ought to be held in the trusts for the common benefit of generations alive today but also generations in the future so this this kind of language aspiration ideal exists in cultures around the world in our national documents of government and democracy and the question is like. How do we act on those aspirations? Because there's a big disconnect between what we see in that language and what we feel in. Our hearts is our obligation to get your generations. What we're actually doing today collectively well. It's interesting because it does exist in so many different places and at the same time. It's not even being considered in so many places there hasn't been recently but I feel like people are feeling the need to go back to it. I mean you look at said reading the founders or reading. Marcus Aurelius or or anything like that. It's it's all about. It's all about long-term Consideration. And how if you read those things now how much you can influence your life. But most people read twitter. They don't read the founder. They don't read those kinds of things. You know facebook. Is You know it has more control over. Most people's lives than any country in their motto is move fast and break things right where where Think of move fast and break things versus the term better ancestor. And I think I I may A A science urban. I'm a proud. Liberal Arts Major and and how many of these technological issues would be would have never happened or would have been considered differently over rolled out with more attention to detail if there are things like a liberal arts major and chief as some of these companies who could say things like I mean almost forget better ancestor but start with. Should we do this? Why shouldn't we do this? Who Affect. Who Won't this effect will people benefit or is this. You know things like that and then you can get to better ancestor because it feels like. They're so far from it. I look at the other day. I mean you know we knew this was going to happen. when when this psycho got elected in in Brazil and he was like yeah. Well I'm going to cut down. The Amazon turns out. He's cutting down the Fuck Amazon. Like the which is like our our Beaubourg. Climate changes is the Amazon. And it's all from for cows give me turned into meat because we can't stop eating meat. Who What are we doing well? I remember when candidate trump was still in the republican primary field and he would say these outlandish things and people people would say like really smart people would say on facebook and and people in my life that say no he he would never do those things you know he'd never build a wall was never knew literally. You know it's like my line is always like when they tell you what they're going to do believe them believe that he has at the very worst very. You're planning for a scenario that that will never come to pass that. You're still like you know prepared for that than that to be the reality and you're you're actually taking them at their word. It's interesting what you were saying about the technology companies too. Because I think that we do need to have building blocks to war. It's this idea of being good ancestors for company for a lot of companies today. Anything for us in our lives today. I think a lot of this comes down to or can be influenced by how we measure ourselves like. How are we measuring progress? Remeasuring success and I go back to the story that the ancient Greek historian Herodotus told which may or may not have been true. But let's go with it. Was nobody on it. Well Yeah we can't back one so easily. It turns out but so there was a magistrate in Athens named Solan who was sort of this wise man of of Athens into place. All these incredible reforms in Athens like banning the practice of enslaving people for their debts he He Expanded suffrage that common people could boat as a really like some of the foundational reforms of democracy remain in place today on so once he put those into place now since he fled the country because he actually didn't want to be pressured and there was sort of like a contract like put in place and period of ten years. You can't erase them. So he he left and as part by the way about what he did. Happen is definitely true And then he went to what Rodriguez says. He went to study which is in Modern Day Turkey and he met this king increases and the King Sorta took him on a tour of his palace his riches and showed him all his bars of gold and all of his wealth and then at the end of the tour he he said to Seoul in the king says who's the happiest man in the world and or sorry is the happiest man I think it was. Who is the happiest man in the world and someone said you know He? I think crisis thought he'd like basically lead the witness in that he was gonna get the answer like you must be because you have all this wealth and someone talked about the length of a person's life and how you can't measure a person's word on any given day and I think this is a lesson that like carries fourth today and by the way can creases ended up having a terrible luck. He lost his son. And Solan named you know this guy who had died Battle new survived by his children and grandchildren. Who remembered him? Well the general tell us and increases really frustrated by that but his fortunes turned and he ended up being very unlucky and so I think the lesson to carry for is that we measure ourselves so much today. In snapshots of time and these technology companies are doing that very thing. We're doing that everything we're looking at. How many likes we have on facebook? Or how many tweets we have twitter and that's not actually the measure of value in our work over time right so it starts with looking at like what's the value creating over the next five years of your life or the next ten years. If it's a company you know is it just about your quarterly profit or is it actually about like what value creating for shareholders and your founders right over a period a longer period of time and. I think you can extrapolate that out. To like the idea of legacy. Or the idea of leading heirlooms and actually. I. I much prefer the idea of Ireland's to legacy. We can go back to that if you want. But if you don't have to talk about so but this this idea that how we measure ourselves in this era because we can we can gather so much data in every increment like little increments of time we can look at like our heart rates every second of every day we want to so I think we really have to reverse resist the urge to be measuring ourselves. And what we do based on these little increments and we have to be looking taking a step back from that all the data that we gather to ask ourselves what we're really doing and what really matters. Yeah it's true you know. It's so the the data at some point we'll become helpful and will shed light on some things that could prevent disease or or show you that. Hey look you actually. Have you know done anything but gone for more than walk for three weeks? You might want to get off the fucking couch but that applies itself to a lot of different things which is like how do you how do you how do you use it. And how do you need on a haystack? If you're just looking at one needle and then one needle and then one needle. It's it's or I guess the signal the noise towards sort of thing exactly right is it. What's the trend versus? What is it telling you in the second rate ripe and yes? Let's talk about heirlooms yes speaking of of them In in I think it was episode. Twenty of of this show It was called. How the hell are we gonNA feed? Ten billion people talked with Fred Iot of the Land Institute and you spent some time down there which is so awesome to. Can you tell us how Agriculture lends itself to to you know this mantra of not cutting corners and Looking forward to building a better future yeah. I have so much fun at the Land Institute. I hung out a lot with West Jackson who was on the verge of turning eighty at the time who is now her a Gland Institute untuckit about visionary got an so and also just really funny he likes to say things like I have methodist in my madness So I think like what they're doing there is really interesting right. So what we're doing now if you think about agriculture here we are. We're going to push nine billion people on the planet and We need to figure out how to feed them all. And at the current rate were depleting Fertile soils around the world and the way that most crops or ground is to boost annual yields which vary by the way incremental. Measure of what? They're worth like you can strip stripping the soil and boosting fertilizers and arrogation using resources. To get your crop for that given ear but over time you might be eroding. The ability of that land feed people in the future so what I think is so interesting. About what the Land Institute is doing is bringing this mentality. I think of heirlooms and ancestral inking to what they're doing with For example they're interested in reclaiming some of the ecosystem of ancient prairie Can which has these grains that are perennial and so they've bread perennial grains and tried to boost their annual yields so that they'll still be profitable for farmers in the short run to grow but So that those grains have deeper roots. That are anchoring the fertile topsoil requiring less fertilizer and irrigation to grow and trying to wed that really futuristic thinking about what's going to be people in the future with what the present day demands of the market are and. I find that to be a really creative way around this conundrum. Where sometimes it's like. Well we just need to do what's needed in the short term to stay afloat right. We need farmers to survive. We need to actually be able to feed people now but we need to bring in that kind of future thinking and so I think sometimes there's ways to kind of combine those things into one and get you up. Assertive more purse like individual example of that these programs. Now that are linking Lotteries with savings because It turns out that savings rates are really really low. Among low and middle income Americans for example this is also true and a lot of other parts of the world and it's really hard for people to save. But in those demographics you also find A fair number of people playing the lottery and actually the lottery like heavily subsidized by the poor. Which is almost like a regressive tax is like people in our society ending paper government services by like playing the lottery and there's some creative groups including a group Commonwealth based in Boston. That worked with folks like the Michigan Credit Union League to set up these schemes where people can by putting money into a savings account that get entered into these lotteries and there are cash prizes that are drawn every month or regularly that prospect of winning something big now Loris people into saving for their future and wow warmer gambling. They can actually lose their money. They can only like had their savings account and it just like the interest in the interest gets put into the lottery system. I love that I mean it's a it's a fiasco so as some way of turning down at Ted has genius. Yeah I mean it's it's the idea in creative about recognizing that there are a lot of short-term demands. There's a lot of we do live in a culture minister gratification. We need to do things at present right like some not have a lot of resources to put towards the future but these kind of creative ways including perennial grains in this like watery savings approach. We can actually wed our future aspirations to what we need to do in the president who we talk about not having resources dedicate the future in a few really look at where the money is not you know if you look at fossil fuel subsidies and go like. Oh we can't we. You know phase out the electric vehicle you know seventy five hundred dollars subsidy or whatever and you go but wait a minute. There's a trillion dollars year. GonNa Fossil fuels like we do have the resources for a lot of these things They're just being these institutionalized horrific ways which I recognize like it's going to be a battle and those I think we're on the way but it's still like there's money to be freed up money can't do everything but I don't know you hope for from the ground up from the top down that we can start to get there so you mentioned this a little bit it's It is. It is rocky out there right. This book wouldn't exist if if it did right. The current climate or the climate of the literally the climate around us not not our cultural climate but the actual climate and the climate of last ever since the last little ice age couple hundred thousand years. It's actually kind of a blip right. It's perfectly suited for for humans. And we've fucking blown it in about one hundred years but it's not just it's not just the environment under threat. The rest of the climate is as well right. Are these we were like? Oh monarchy's name here. We'RE GOING TO TRY DEMOCRACY WE. We've ruined that as well. Some say it's kind of cyclical but you actually spent some time in the book and I really liked this talking about how. The failure of government of past great societies wasn't an an isn't necessarily inevitable and how past societies didn't have the tools we do and this is what you mentioned now to track for example antibiotic resistance now we can or Google flu or to look with satellites. It deforestation live like day to day right so for example for better or worse. We've got he satellites now. That can see everything every minute of the day. And they can create use that information to create a historical database. Like we were saying like all this data look at the long term and then we have these powerful computers in these algorithms that can parse all of that weeks or years of it. And we get this. Comprehensive looks the most comprehensive. Look we've ever had of all of these interconnected systems and then the computer ses basically congrats you everything. You have eleven years to live right. I'm exactly true it. It doesn't have to be it we are. We've put ourselves in a very tough spot. Even if for instance just on a carbon if we stopped right now We would still. It would get worse for awhile because it's baked in But it isn't inevitable right. There's all we always joke about the with. Have you ever heard of the term the Great Filter Beena? We could out on this for awhile. I'll send you in love in same thing. I think it's so proposed. I can't remember was a firm. I think it was it. Part of FERMI paradox. Like four years ago and I wrote this ridiculous thing on there's associated ghostbusters with it because Chur with the idea. The great filter is the question is ser. He's paradox was all right if they're all these and this was like forty years ago. Now we actually know all these planets are out there. If if if there's other life out there why haven't we seen right and there's all these answers which is there too far away faster than light so we just haven't received that contact yet or by the time we receive at was eight hundred million years ago like they're out of here or there's nothing else out there all these questions if one of the further rabbit holes is if there's no one else out there why and Again having all these incredible telescopes out there has taught us that they're actually planets in these habitable conditions in these habitable zones the quote unquote goldilocks zones. Where they'll probably be small enough planet that's rocky and might be able to have water. Which is kind of all we need. But the question is if that's true now we know of him more. Is there some sort of filter that every civilization runs into that snuffs it out and is that do they get to the point where their weapons are too powerful and they snuffy themselves like nuclear weapons is it anyways is something else in the question for humanity has always been? If let's say that theory is is cold water are we passed great filter or are we just not there yet and if the answer is apparently in the in the more people dig into this and you can really out on. It is was our great if we've already passed it. That's great because we might survive this thing Was Our great filtered leaping from single cell to multi cell because more we find out about that more we found out how fucking random it wasn't impossible was that we got to that point or are we not to a great filter yet and nukes or climate. Change is going to do it if the ideas that everybody has one question is. Do you get past it but so I'm exaggerating only slightly but like you're saying it's it's a it's a choice is more for us than ever before and I would love to hear more about that because I would love to know what the fuck we need to do to skirt back from that little railing on the side of the cliff that we've really backed ourselves up against. Yeah well I love that way of thinking about it because it really it really forces you to reckon with the fact that there are threats we face that could be right. It could be existential We don't know for sure that they will be we. Don't know what a great filter is. I think that's the beauty of the thought. Experiment that that kind of that. I think the thought airman not be filter. Sorry easy to think about end and try to make actually like unearth better for as many as many creatures in for ourselves as we as we can because it allows us to think about things that are not just existential but things that are pretty damn awful in general on too but so I mean I just guess one of the things that I think about here is that so I called so I call this the time. We're living in a reckless age and it speaks to what you're saying because Unlike like the people who were in. Pompeii FOR SUBBIAH. Blue in seventy nine. You know we actually have ways to read the warning signs like you were saying. We have satellite measurements. We have the record of warming warm temperatures. We know the power of nuclear weapons. We know The power of artificial intelligence gene editing. We can kind of read. The tea leaves much better than than sort of previous civilizations that have been wiped out and so that gives us this. Incredible potential right and and the question is like. How do we act on this? Right or predictive. Power is so strong. But how do we actually act on the warning signs that we can save our civilizations we can save what's best for humanity so we can have a more just society a society that doesn't have such Inequality isn't framing fraying the scenes to conflict. Which is I think where we're going right now and so you can't like the reason we're reckless is because we actually have the evidence and we don't need to be acting on it past. That said like what's imply there is that we have choice because we have the knowledge and because we actually have the tools in a lot of cases to solve these problems I think with climate change. It's very much the case that we have the tools and when I use the word tool I don't mean just like the tech like we have the hardware. I feel like people really need to expand their view. That and a lot of it's about potential of how we're going to these problems is communities and I think so so one of the problems right like why is it like we can have this knowledge of like the the polar ice caps melting and not act on it a reich me like no And see right like our forests disappearing not act on it and I think one of the problems is when we think about the future. The future is in our minds like we don't touch it. We don't sense it we don't smell it We conjure it in our minds and one of the beautiful things about being human is that we can conjure in our minds in you know if you talk to evolutionary psychologists biologists about this look of experiments. It seems like were one of the only. If not the only species that can actually do this like literally imagine a future so when a squirrel future liked by putting away not sets more instinctually programmed at Johnson. future like we have but we're not exceptionally good at it even though we can do it right and what we kinda pageant like. We're good imagining like I could win the powerball or there might be a terrorist attack. Has People remember all the images of nine eleven? There's a million movies about terrorist attacks. But we're not so good with imagining things. We haven't experienced like slow sea level. Rise that then makes storms really bad getting better at imagining it. Now that we've seen like Hurricane Jane we'd seen her could bring on we've seen Bangladesh flooding and and all of that but We're still like we're suffering from deficit imagination in how we think about the future. What's possible and so I think a big part of how we act on this choice this choice. We have to really like plant the future and do better to avoid the fate of these societies these civilizations that have collapsed throughout history even on our planet and probably on planets for all we know is to like bridge dot imagination gap and Part of what we have to do is not sanitized stretched to the future but also have visions of the future that Our Agency that so when we think about climate change for example a lot of times I feel like people only picture like physical phenomena of like you know who flooded streets of Miami. Which by the way you can see on a full moon anytime you want but or droughts and people being displaced and conflict refugee crises. And that is all realistic in terms. Of what could happen under climate change? But I think if we want to actually get to the point where we're not just like turning away from these scenarios we have to be also envisioning what we can do differently in our society could actually be a society that addresses this problem like we need to have the positive visions of US solving the problem. And it's I think it is like an engaged formative optimism. It's not like believing that the world's going to be fine but it's like having a picture of of what we want society to look like and stepping back from that to ask how we do it and it's one of the reasons why people are giving the green new deal such a hard time because they're saying it's GONNA cost trillions of dollars least Fox News. They're saying that which is a ridiculous proposition because not a policy proposal. Yeah it's just resolution rates aboriginal policy has to be put together on it and then on the other hand you know people are saying like it's trying to do too much and I understand the criticisms but what really compels me about it. Is that unlike other other responses to Climate Change. We've had in the past either at policy level or the political level. That is is what I call like. It's like an aspirational vision. A path society would solve major problems of inequality and climate change and involves Picturing Society is not just as it is now but as it could be as it could be better so it's An animating vision that people can get behind with feeling like. Oh we have the agency to make the future a reality instead of just predicting like it's not just about the negative future right and it's not just about like things will be fine or we're going to keep things exactly the way they are because for a lot. We know for a lot wide. Swath of our societies around the world. Things as they are are not good enough we it is incredibly simple and easy to say but we have to harness that agency and use it because you know these lobsters that are going further up the coast of northeast America. Boy Water's warm. Wish probably move out to can't they don't have any fucking idea why it's happening or that's just GONNA GET WORSE. We do and we can do something about it. So we'll smarter the monsters. That's like sticker Martin. Lobsters mortaring lobsters. Let's go but you know what like lobsters are delicious? So let like Lamm Delicious. England's I'm so happy to have lobster and speaking of lobster. I mean one of these one of these Mike really inspiring stories of what we can do to act more like ancestors came from spending some time on the Pacific coast of Mexico with these lobster fishing villages. I was up and down the Baja Peninsula which was so horrible. You know just having a hang out. She I now feel bad. Faith communities basically set up like their own way of collectively shepherding heirloom. Which is the lobster fishery? They've set up their own independent ways of policing the fishery. They're very careful about what they catch the size of lobster. So they don't take a breeding lobster out of the oceans And they're actively acting like ancestors with the resource of the fishery and you hear all these stories around the world of fisheries being destroyed but there's actually people doing this the right way and showing that it's possible to to act in this way. That that conserves what we have for Future Generations. It's out there right. I mean you know the the simpler version is in the less generational but someone has started to do some things. You look at Oslo. I think today Removed the last parking spaces downtown Because they just said we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA fucking do this thing. We're just going to get rid of cars and they actually did it an and and it's amazing and it's like you know we can we do it. We need to start doing it. Yeah and I think it's important to talk about that. I'm so glad you brought up because I think we can feel right like the scale of this crisis particularly the climate crisis but like many crisis we fail. Face is just so large that it can feel so intimidating for one person to look at that and I think you look at an example on your and then you could just say oh well. That's just Oslo. But as you Amasau examples if you as you look around the world which I did for my book but you start to see but there's just like an incredible number of people and communities and businesses and organizations and even governments. That are doing things that matter and that show show a model of how we can actually act in this way and actually planned for the future in this way and and what we need to do is learn from their example. Replicate them an continue to to build right more examples of ask so that they all become larger than the sum of the parts. We can do. It just seems so so easy Yeah Yeah Being I e you know we mentioned it before you're clearly the nightingale Or or the Oracle the Matrix Myself now that's where we're we like to do here. You know what are what are the biggest obstacles that you run into you know? Where do you find yourself into the ground or are there things that you're running from? What am I running from? I haven't had to run from anything recently but now you know I do think like there's this tendency to to sanitize the threats of the future right because It's easier to focus on what's immediate not. Take seriously these threats to the teacher so we have to. We have to find ways to help people take them more seriously and one that I came across That I wrote about was using using role play games to help. Communities Rightly really contend with sea level. Rise you give people scenario and these games kind of occupied a space between fiction and reality because people are willing to kind of play the game so it's like you know if you go if you play monopoly like you're not actually like you're not gonna we like own Atlantic Avenue but like you suspend just fully for the game pretty sure I'm the owner of Atlantic Avenue. I'm so sorry but so you know. And then they're playing the game and then they realized that these scenarios after the game stunned there was a study in nature on this that people then feel engaged. They feel actually more like they have an opportunity to plan for sea level rise in their community. This is done in like Several communities and so I think there are ways to help people really engage with these scenarios in the future in a way that makes them feel like there's something they can do about it and knock just right like they're not just the victims in this doomsday. That's coming and well. I think we can start to work towards a how we can actually help folks Give them a little little preview of the book to come brand new. Take us through that yes. Of course yeah. We you know what we like to do is lay out some some Ways that that our listeners can Take action with their voice their vote and their dollar to help support your mission and the our mission as a as a people Let's let's get into it How can Our listeners support You with their voice you know we like to if we can come up with some big actionable specific question that we could be asking of our you know local representatives That that could help support you. Yeah I think we need to be asking our politicians candidates. We need to be asking them. What are they doing about problems that they speech generations? What are they doing a climate change? How are they investing education? What's their plan for? Not just the next generation but the generation after that We need to be holding them accountable for what they do to act. Not just an immediate problems but on future problems. So I mean one thing I wouldn't say about voting and I hope I'm not just going off the rails of what you actually want here. Please do what we do here. We only back in when you're thinking about voting especially in this upcoming presidential election do not like right like do not fallen the trap of failing to imagine what's possible I feel like we're all reeling from the two thousand sixteen election still and with with Juke reason But what's been what's happened in the past. Right is only so much of a precedent right where we live in unprecedented times. We never could have seen or envisioned right. Russians interfering in social media to manipulate elections. We're freezing unprecedented sea level rise And so don't let the inability to imagine something different than what we've seen before in our political leadership. Keep you from Embracing in voting for candidates that end ideas that you believe are right for the society right like let's not regress a retreat to What we've known before So that I feel like it's important like Lens to put on your voting and how you think about it and with those candidates right like we need to be really holding them accountable asking even at the local level of our candidates you know what were the consequences of this policy. GonNa be for the next generation like how should I be thinking about this For the teacher. Especially if you're young and Even if you're not young you probably care so if you're listening to this you probably care so I would just say like lens of being an ancestor in in how you act and how you vote and how you think at that level. I think it's consumers as your if you consume what you'd probably do we all do. That's another way to really use your power like looking at companies that actually are thinking long term about the impacts looking at their supply chains to figure out how they can do better environmentally and socially think it matters a lot and I think we saw this with like Nike End Kapernick like protests. That they just responded to the fact that consumers have incredible power in our outraged by what's what the NFL how the NFL treated Kabir Nick for taking a knee to protest injustice and so I think that companies are responding to consumers who care and we need to continue to show them that we care but then I also like I bought a pair of Nikes after that I was doing this and I think there are like different ways different issues that depending on what you care about when it comes to the teacher that you can find ways to support The companies that are actually acting on those values. Yeah that's not right. That's seems pretty specific to me and I don't. I'm not sure if we've ever really had voting Sort of perspective like that which I think is is really helpful. Which is you know. It goes back to earlier in the conversation. Which was you know? Oh He's saying all these things when he was candidate and look. He did all of them after. Everyone said he's not gonNA really do that. It's it's it's you use your imagination and use it to imagine what would happen if he wins again but also to imagine like what what we can do And that's what I thought there's a great article and and obviously there's twenty candidates So everyone is still picking their own including myself but I loved. Cuba was New York Times columnist. Who said I WANNA live in Elizabeth Warren? Right and it is. It's it's taking that and going. Oh my God like what if we have that you know and and hers is obviously helpful about everything. And that's right. She's got a plan for everything. But it's but if you take a minute and you in you write a story in your mind about taking all those things and imagining like okay. Four years from now like what could that feel like an? It's like Holy Shit. I WANNA be there. I get it and do that do that. Fine Line who your person is and then of course everyone has to get online at the Andros. We're GONNA die but talk about is people aren't doing what what you're saying. They're actually like there's asking themselves like. Yeah who's electable breed about? What happened right and I get it. We're all worried right like it's pretty fucking bad you know. We don't like this but we have to let our imaginations allow us to Inhabit a world in which we candidate wins. That does what we actually want for American society. What we want for the world and the reason I say that is that there's no guarantee that the past is going to be President. We don't know delectable all we know is what we care about and how we want to shape our society for the future and if we're not willing to imagine it then it's going to become self fulfilling right. We're never going to have that reality. Sure it's insane to use these precedents of ability when the entire thing got thrown out last election right literally anyone can be president but also like you said look. We have to let ourselves do that. And I'll use a phrase that has always stuck with me and people give it or they're inspired by it and I know this one is close to you because you're old Your old boss but you know we have to have the audacity of hope pretty. He was pretty smart so weird. Right we blew it but it's true you have to go in there and and have that like I want to be there. What do I do? I have to put to for us to get there and from from from getting cars out of cities You know to punishing polluters to to civil rights to the whole thing you know who do I have to do and let yourself go like Oh my God? I'm going to work my ass off to get us there. Yeah and I think because we are in such a time of despair where politics is broken. Were climates warming were inequalities rising like these are the Times where we actually need the courage to be that kind of optimists right. We need it. It's more important than ever that we don't just retreat into this incremental is unlike. Let's just make it less bad. You know we this is when we lift our sights and I think I know if your listeners can be brave enough to lift their sites like that I will feel like I did a little little mini nightingale song. Your incredible before we get to our. Don't call it a lightning round last questions. And get you out of here Just don't you pip your book for a minute here comes on August twenty seven? Th I believe. Is there a yeah? The optimus Telco comes out on his twenty seven. This will Labor Day. This will come out Probably right but what we is. Oh we're coming out. Gradually seven wasted. Oh if you do you want us to come out the week before or that day up to you that thanks great. I think I can ask the publicist when I walk out of here. And if she says differently A let you know. But that's a sounds great to be clear you she might also say never mind God. She hasn't been listening so she doesn't know what I said. Let's get out of here. Majority Brian Take home here. All right first of all thank you so so so very much for being here today. Sorry about all the microphone stuff but you sound great and this has been wonderful so great. You guys are great. I love you. You're awesome boy. The feeling is mutual. And maybe later when we figure out for sure when when we'll put the The episode up you can let us know if you have any ideas Anybody else that you think that we could could talk to. You mentioned. I think some organization to begin a discussion. Actually so if there's anybody think we talked to world changes like yourself please let us know. I. I'm sure I can come up with a list for you absolutely perfect and here we go. This is the don't call it a lightning round lightning round of final questions. If you're it's not we gotta find another name Seventy five episodes later. When was the first time in your life when you realize you the power of change or the power to do something meaningful? I was seventeen and I had been part of a program to end my small town in Ohio. Twenty thousand people a shadowed a city council member and she was kind of moderate and even a little bit Republican and It turned out at the time. You know they were just expecting to like talk to high school students and tell them whatever. There was a proposal to drill for oil on the only woodland park in my town at the time and I ended up mobilizing with a lot of other students teacher. Mine School Community members to block the drilling of oil in the park and after having a pretty unanimous like pre vote to the drilling The ended up the initiative ended up failing entirely and they didn't drop oil in the park a lot because of our organizing and felt like. Wow this is like this is what you can do and you get people together and when you care enough to read the cool who is someone in your life. That has positively impacted. You work in the past six months in the past six months. Well I feel like my editor Jake. Morrissey has just been like huge champion for and you know he's always talking about he has kids and he's talking about his heirlooms now so he's really kind of embodied like he had to live with my book. God bless him for a very long time and edit the whole beast multiple times and so it's been really cool. Just hear him talk about it recently and have him be actually taking the practices and ideas and putting them into action in his own life. And I wasn't exactly expecting that but it's been kinda gratifying to feel like. Oh there's all this potential for this book I also got to have another one here. We go anyway. Well do you want me to keep going? Go ahead give it. You know there's going to be sitting there going like who was it. Was it me? Why didn't you say I know right? Well Jacquelyn no regrets. Who's the founder of Acumen which does patient capital to help people around the world? Start BUSINESSES She just like she heard me talk. I gave a talk at Ted and I think she'll bad for me because I had to give the very less talk of the whole week in Vancouver and then she invited me to talk to a group of women in our home About my book about the idea of being good ancestors and it was just like one of the most magical evenings ever had in my life and I don't think all I mean no offense to you guys but I don't think I'll ever be like talking about my book that we're so deeply engaged in so so like ready to take this kind of thinking into all the rooms about us work from Leading theater groups to running corporations and so I think Jacqueline and also Jacqueline. I think she sees sees this idea in sees my book in a way that like just gave me like this huge lift. It was like getting like a big boy of Eric paragliding or something. Those pretty to be clear if you had sent us I would have said you need better. Friends would not have accepted that. No no chance by Brian. Take her home here. Being what do you do when you feel overwhelmed? I like to call. What's being a time a lot of times? I go to Walden pond. I live about twenty minutes from Walden Pond. If it's summer I go for an early morning swim before people get there and when I'm in Walden I have like communing with nature. I'm Leonard I'm like being inspired the way the light like goes through the water there. It looks like you're being you're back backlit on a green screen you're underwater. It's just US super energizing so for me. Like swimming has this Like this ability to make me feel the power of like being able to glide through the water being able to do something like get through. Whatever I'm going through my light but also this like incredible immersive relaxation. I just feel like I'm like back in the loom being surrounded by something really really Like bigger than me. Who of a photos of it are very pretty? It's gorgeous. You have to go Walden. It's the bow coup. It'll be you'll think it's Super. I'll tell you what I'm not gonNA be there from. She had a lot of fun. What if you Amazon Prime One book and I I mean I think I might have the answer already but figured Amazon Prime One book to Donald Trump. What would it be? Oh so many options. We've had passed a guests who were authors of Books Say THEIR BOOKS. So bill feel bad if you want to. I don't know see a part of me. Wants to read. My Book. Party doesn't because my book helps people think ahead and like make their plans for the future that it's interesting because the Russians bought the rights like a Russian Publishing Company about Gordon writes my book and I was a little bit like ooh. I HOPE PUTIN DO I want to like I don't know anyway with the ALMANAC right. Yeah exactly one buck. We've had colored books the Constitution and everything in between Now I just feel like I should have this on the tip of my target. I don't listen to the end of your episode. I was trying to get through multiple ones. No no within two good ones most of two months Brian. Most Mozart most of them. I think even care. Does he read yes? Look Imagine. Someone's reading it to him or something. Like someone's reading to Him. I thought we start with something. Pretty basic level of comprehension like Laura axe so good. Yes acts which by the way I read to. My niece The week of like a few days after the presidential election of two thousand sixteen I read to my then three year old niece and I wept. I don't know how you could not be moved by that book but worth a try worth a try. It's a pretty good one. Well listen Working listeners follow you on the Internet they can follow me at. Jv twitter and check out the optimist. Telescope I think if you just google out you'll find me doing a book tour I am. Yeah starting in DC politics in prose on the third of September then Harvard Bookstore in Boston on September. Fifth Corps Club New York in September Ninth and Entrepreneur Brooklyn Book Festival. Boston book festival should be some other places in other parts of the country to. Brian will wherever you go. Yeah I can be like your personal assistant. Whatever you need. Let me now love to see you guys if you can make it to any of the above we we will the LA. I'll be in L. A. November To COME TO LA. I mean it's over dude. You Got US away do we do. Have you ever been to the summit? La The It seems like it's GonNa get out more being. This has been fucking great you so much for all your time. We kept you for quite a while here in for your book which just devoured and loved and clearly going to hand out to quite a lot of people who need it but not the people that don't want to have that's right. Be Very Tim player. Clear that's right it is. We don't need thing weaponized. Awesome and the book tour is great and we really appreciate you thinking this way urging everyone else to do to you guys. You guys are fantastic. You're so awesome. It's a lot of fun and I really love what you're doing. It means. I think it means a lot and it's it's making a difference. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking dog walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp just so weird also on facebook and Instagram. At important not important. Pinterest and Tumbler the same thing so check us out. Follow US SHARE. Us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate US ON APPLE. Podcasts lights on thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website important not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our jam. Music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day thanks guys.

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#89: Why Does It Require a PhD in Neuroscience Just to Support a Green New Deal?

Important, Not Important

1:12:18 hr | 7 months ago

#89: Why Does It Require a PhD in Neuroscience Just to Support a Green New Deal?

"Welcome to important not important. My name is Anne. I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy still still is for now despite everything. Hey this is the podcast bend. The motherfucking ARCA history towards a more livable planet. Which is a high bar. These days for you for me and for everybody else. We're going to dive into a specific question. That's affecting everyone on the planet right now. Which again is choosing from a lot of things anything If it can kill us make the future hell of a lot cooler for everyone. Then we are in. Our guests are scientists. Doctors Engineers politicians astronauts journalists even reverend and work together toward action steps that our listeners can take with their voice their vote and their dollar right and this is your friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts and feedback to us on twitter important. Nada where we don't have to sanitize it after he received it or you can email us at fun talk at important not important dot COM. You can also join tens of thousands of other smart folks and you can subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at important not important DOT COM also requires zero. Santa's Zeros. Yeah it's great it's great. This week's episode is really a story about being stabbed in the back and then how we deal. Yes going the way. She's managed great. Our guest is Dr Arthur. Chronic and she is an immigrant. Check mother check activists check-check neuroscientist check. Who Got One guy elected? I know this will surprise many of you just by making a bunch of promises it turns out what's the word so there's always sucks. Yeah and so now. She's decided to take him down herself because again and I want to be clear. This isn't just some random race. We're talking about something affecting everyone on the planet right now and and that is having people in office. That actually do what they say. They're gonNA do while again. More specifically our prison voting for green new deal and also Medicare for all because look around you folks. Look what's happening. Yep and but don't go outside your door and look just look inside. I am Yup Yup Yup so Arthy is a amazing and Holy Shit Man We gotTa Make It happen folks. We need just so. Please enjoy a truly fantastic conversation with spurring woman. Let's go to our guest. Today is Dr. The chronic and together. We're going to try to figure out and this is just. It has become confusing to me why it takes a PhD neuroscience to just support a green new deal. Dr Critic Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. We know now. She's excited and she should be just like we are. We're more excited for sure. But thank you honestly very much for being here if we could get going by just telling everybody really quick who you are what you do sure my name is private. I am a neuroscientist by training and rightness minutes Besides talking to you all I am running for Congress in New Jersey's district we yes very exciting concise to do this thing get into it. We love it. We're here to support you as a reminder to everyone and and to you art the our goal on this podcast is to provide some quick context for the question or the topic And then we're going to dig into some Not just questions but action oriented questions that get to the core of why we should all give a shit about it and you and what we can all do to to help support US sound good all right. Arnold do this thing Arthur. You did say you cheated and listen to some previous episodes. So so there's hours of your life you're never gonNA get back could have been knocking on doors But we do like to start with one important question are the why are you vital to the survival of the species? I was really hoping you're not gonNA ask me that question bad deal with it. I know so vital. Well so my first anther which is always pops into I had. It's like well. I've taken that first basic staff of ensuring the survival issue because I reproduced and raising two feminists son of the hopefully more equitable Byatti. So there is that And then you know really look what I'm doing right now it's `binding for being you deal biting. Medicare fraud biting for the existential crisis that we are in in the So I think that we need more people like me and like you joining the. I think we're all vital to survival Yeah and right. Now that feels pretty appropriate with with everything that is going on well That sounds pretty great to me. I like it. It's GONNA take everybody but I'm really glad that you are leading the way you're in charge. Now I'm GONNA do quick little context. You're a thought about this and couldn't quite settle on exactly what direction I wanted to go. Sometimes these things are super technical for if we're focusing on one specific topic on the guest is on the front lines at that. Sometimes it's more ethical sometime just more philosophical Sometimes it's longer sometimes shorter. I do believe you'll be able to correct me on this one though if I'm wrong because it is about why we're having this call today listeners. Sometimes you spend all this time and energy emigrating to a country that's supposed to be a better life and then you get a PhD and not in like the classics or Shakespeare. As delightful as the old guard can be but a neuroscience and then you decide to use that degree in your expertise to focus in on opiate addictions because why not help others. That feels pretty time. But that's not enough. You have knocked out a couple of kids a couple of feminist sons on the side with your your your medical doctor husband because apparently you've both got a thing for brains because why not and now. You're working mother and WHO's made intimately aware of how goddamn difficult that is in this country. And then after twenty sixteen which we thought was the darkest year turns out less. Though you say fuck it and you run for City Council because you're acutely aware of how important the climate crisis isn't and local action and how much we desperately need Medicare for all because you see it all the time with your husband working and and that's it or is it because now you decide to become an activist for all these things because you've been so in touch with them and you spend a bunch of energy now campaigning for this Democrat and you actually get him elected and that's great except who turns out to be effectively garbage. So what in this very fictional situation listeners? Would you do next? Turns out some of us not naming names would take all that life experience and wisdom and say fuck it. I'll do it myself and it shouldn't have come to to moments like this shouldn't be this hard. Shouldn't require a woman of such incredible virtue and expertise to get the the one deal? We need to prevent the the planet that we've basically been treating like a one-star airbnb rental from from turning into like a goddamn fireball. But that's where we find ourselves and so here we are talking to our who's decided to to just get into the get into the game and try to fix it herself and so we're thankful for that and that's why we're talking to her. I WANNA find out though. That was the historical version of of how how things happen. But I I've I've spent some more time recently in our conversations trying to get a little more to the bottom of why like what because our listeners. There's a question I'd like to ask about our guests pass. It's not a necessary. An explanation of their entire life story. But we're trying to find out the the why of why the do what they do and what they're fighting for so he's making these notes for the conversation. I got to the audio background. Will you talked about your your grandfather being a freedom fighter and it felt like the perfect time to ask one of my one of my newer favorite questions which is is there a specific relationship you can point to that was a catalyst fear actions to get you are you are today and I find. It's much more involved in specific way of asking. Why why you? Why this so? I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about that. That's a great question. Why me why this by a why. This is really the to tell you. It is critical. It is important. It is mind blowing to me that we are not all running around raising an alarm for the kinds of things that are happening around the world that are happening in our own backyard as scientists bomb as somebody as a human being we all we all see this guy falling for real and none of us you know seeing or very few of us in way seemed to care And so for me. It was about saying okay. Well what is going on? And why are these people? Why does Congress member who was mostly glimmer of hope for is twenty sixteen foot? My death-ray was person. That has deported. Volunteered for why. Not taking the lead. In fact I asked him at but they did in twin right before he was elected when we were all locked doors for him I had a huge get off the boat Bali for him in my backyard. Sixty people showed up by. Knock on doors There are pictures of together because I believed I still believed that despite his very first vote where he overturn you know where he voted to overturn Obama Era Regulations on the environment for help. I still believe he's going to be fighting for and so I asked him this. I said the CO chairs. The bipartisan supposed bipartisan. Probably Caucus I need you to take the climate change By we just had the IPCC report come out that said we had something like a decade in a very conservative estimate and the Inter guy was something like. I can't use that free. Climate Change to talk to Mike Him because I'm afraid of getting reelected I mean I'm paraphrasing here and that struck me as Harbin deathly wrong. This is not what elected officials are supposed to do particularly not one that I help support. Who aren't supposed to be Democrats? This is not just cowardly. This lack of leadership of moral and ethical internship It basically all you're doing is following that agenda of attacking And Truth and then and there can be no greater issue right now than survival of our species and the fact that my elected Congress number that I reported was not just shying away but you see to running away issue and saying he couldn't use this word. How do you even trying to find a problem when he can't win? You're not even brave or courageous enough to define it and say that to me was one of the one of the worst conversations. I've had With it elected official In that would horrify considering that council member at the time navid fighting that fight on a local level with similar conditions as he has why me this is not the plan. I never thought this is what I was going to be doing. It really wasn't true when I was little. I wanted to do crazy things called Diane's people laugh at me. I had soaks telling me that. That's not practical. Maybe should be something else You know get a real job of you know which frankly follows me to really. Didn't think this is going to do after the two thousand sixteen election you talked about the for me. Public Service with something with dignified nocturnes Candidates all of that never felt empowered to talk but after seeing that You know the day of the lectured by boys and I. They were eighteen nine eleven time. We went knocking on doors to get out the vote. For Hillary we all were pantsuits by the way matching maybe boots picture picture that yeah. We had the mission from the girl to talk. It's fine. It's fine. Yes that will be put on. But I will say that you know so. We came back expecting allegation clearly. That's not what happened clearly explaining that to him or them. It's still to do for me at this point. But the real kicker with weeks afterwards of a hate crime by game all of these things are going on and turn off the TV. We said we're not going to watch what's going on. And my eight year old at the time that time and parents know that all the worries come out right. He was very worried he could go to sleep. He was talking to bad not really worried. That you're going to be deported back. You are not going to be my mom in America anymore at Matt and that you know his grandparents my parents were going to be targeted and it was it was wrenching to hear that of my son was wrenching to understand that he was so afraid for me after having done all of the fame by being here for so long a proud patriotic. American food and dealing like My son actually feels that this could be to enlist the truth. Could be taken away from me. Blah leads through no part of arm and while I was able to hug him and tell him it's okay. This is not what's going to happen to our look reality is There are far too many of us who can't do that with any time in the and to me was just a moment a moment that six of me where I thought how do all had the rest of my community evening. He'll right now. There's so many of those who feels so much less secure in the so much vulnerable either because of how they look how they act who loves And then of that is okay And you know and I thought back to NYCACC others. I grew up on stories on grandfather biting industry them fighting against British colonial down on and all the things that he went and how proud he was a biting even when it looked like there was no home and to me that felt important that I that courage right is part of my family. Lower my parents when they left India. They didn't know what was going to happen. They left the whole promise of America. That doesn't always come to for everybody and my mom had to take English classes just to feel comfortable enough to get on the airplane with My Dad had been here a couple years earlier through just thinking about how much folks had done for me to get to a place of being able to do others. I just felt compelled to really Which is how I got into marching organizing in being Being a city council member that I never thought it would be Any with that same compulsion But also honestly anger and frustration and a real sense of look. I'm a real Democrat. I believe in all of these values and my Congress number does not represent these values. So if I'm going to say five minute demand better. I need to step up and do more. So that was it. It's not it's complicated answer and I don't know if it's if it's one that it's an interesting one. But Billy just felt like we all have to bore and I met a point where I have to try. Because if we don't we're back up pretty well and thank you for for sharing all that. I think it does matter to people when when they see these things and you know in Congressman. Afc put out this video the other day yesterday. Maybe twitter video talking about everyone. You know. There's been this chitter chatter of. Oh if if sanders gets the nomination much. It doesn't look like he will you know? Could she be vice president and literally a she even allowed to cushy so young and and she put really interesting video talking about like. That shit doesn't matter. We need to stop going from from hero to hero from like Savior Savior because it's about the people on the ground doing it but at the same time. I think it's really interesting. Which is a thousand percent correct and and I love her perspective. I mean she. She has like the soul of like an an a of a three hundred year old person. Who's lived Tennessee? But I do think it's interesting because people are especially moments like this where everyone's locked in their house listening to listening to us. Unfortunately I I do think we do look to those people and the people that are running for office especially the people that are in office in one. I think there's this question of like not. Just how did they get there? But why like? What are the things that drove them to to do this in what made her what has turned off so much as a twenty eight year? Old Bartender to run for Congress you know. And and what and not just what what was the moment. But but why and why did that affect her more and and? I also think it's helpful because our listeners are so action-oriented and they're just out there doing shit every day that I I have. I've tried to spend more time on this question because I also think it helps people to hear everything you just said. And they might not have such a historic background or grandfather's a freedom fighter but there are things in people's pass that they might not have questioned or thought about or even learned about that can make them go like. Oh Do I have a family. History of like stirring shit up that. I need to tap into. What are the things I was taught that? Can that can apply now because that stuff matter so as much as I. I've really enjoyed hearing that and and I'm thankful you shared. I do think it matters for people because I think it shows them a a way of looking to the past to to help them sort of fight for the future. Now that makes sense and honestly you know I will say that tied with that is that has a history of trouble making a good kind of way. Suppose all my entire life I grew up. I was born in India very traditional Patriarchal Society You know and for for the most part. My family wasn't that much different than that. And so yeah I've told what to do harmful to act who supposed to be My entire life and as it turns out as my mom pathetic you know. You always been stubborn in your own way. Somehow so I've always push back against those assumptions of how what I should do and I think it's good for all of us to do that and I think when I say that to people they get it. They're like you're right. No every I've been limited in some way right or books have told them that you can't do this. You can't do that and so we were me figure out how to go beyond that. I I love and good. Troublemaking is always good. I mean like some of our listeners are definitely starting to veer towards like pure Batman vigilantism. Which at this point in time you know. Hey Yeah whatever works. Brian claims to be a bartender night. I don't believe him though. He acts them fantastic cocktails. Yeah look man. We all need him at this point. superpowers cocktails But it does matter and and and and those things being I love when your parents are like yeah. You've always been a troublemaker. Great go do that. I think you would love a previous guest of ours Venkataraman Rodeo one. She's now the opinions editor at the Boston Globe She wrote a book last year called the optimus telescope. I'm thinking ahead and reckless agent. And she had this. There's sort of theme and in line and theme in it That has sort of altered. My thing I I guess boost helped me find better articulate my own thinking but also helped point me in a much more specific direction Going forward and and the line is basically like how can we be better ancestors and and I remember the first time I read that in reading her book before the before we talked to her thinking like. Oh Shit that is. That is the thing like I'm raising three. You know middle class white kids in in Los Angeles And and so you know they're going to be fine but the but at the same time both for them but for for everyone else like how can you be a better ancestor? And if you can use that like you said to take your past in your in your grandfather's legacy and what your parents did to be so brave to come over here one by one and then take the English classes just to get on the plane and and to help you get your degree and everything to make like. How do I use those things from the past to fight for the future I think is so applicable and helpful anyways? Thank you would love the book. She's she's fantastic now. I totally love that. I'm actually looking at up right now. I'm not that I'm not paying attention to y'all know Brian. Literally tax half the hips. Still doing this thing. I thought you were making Belfast. Now please wisely. I'm picking art the we we only really cover topics From their perspective of how is this One thing affecting everyone right now. You know that. That's our our prison will it? Will it kill us all or or will it make the future Hell of a lot cooler for everyone and You know one of those as often as healthcare in the US Which is obviously a complicated discussion Because it's a nightmare but also because so so many other people cover it from from so many different angles which is great and yet here. We are now With a once in a century virus quarantining people all over the world and and and finally all over our country to their homes a virus that yet it by the way possibly I think ten times at least ten times as deadly as the flu and so so. Many Americans don't don't have healthcare and they can't afford it Or they can't take time off of work because they work in the GIG economy or immigrant You know the point is that they're going to suffer and we could have been so much better prepared for this could. Could you paint a picture for us? You know? Imagine a world where there is a a a specific core corona virus right hits just like it is now except we've got medicare for all in place. How how is that? How would that be different? So we're dealing with this right now. so Armin Berg Canning Jersey. We're nurse state of emergency. As of two days ago. We are right next to where we have. New York City were from the bay both modern cases at least on the east coast. We've had We have you know every day we hear about more folks and we still don't know but the true count is or to count could be because of lack of testing. We knew we could have been much better prepared even months ago for a panda mattress had we had an administration that believed advance that would allow. Were all abusing happened. To first and foremost the fact is we need government officials immed- mead folks who are not only not attacking Diane but actually believe in it are going to let our nation experts public health authored. Do their jobs not muzzle them and not downplay them for political gain adult is a baseline that. I never thought I would have to speak out loud. It seems a little insane. We should not have to say it honestly when I was getting my PhD. I thought doing experiments In the multiple failures that you have when you do the experiment. China flaming about what's going to be the hard part. I didn't think that I was going to be older. And getting people to believe in science especially the president who remained. Science is GonNa be something that I've ever GonNa have to do and that to me is mind boggling. Right where raising kids in an environment of kind of distrust of did not bode well for our society. We have people stand up and really talk about why dangerous. Let's first and foremost we don't even have looked at to figure out what that society would be. We had Medicare for all if he had any semblance of actual humanity in carrying or all of us in this world. We look at your for example for some of their for some of their policies. I mean folks there. They're going to follow or they are following the public health guidelines of staying home and quarantining and all of that. Because they're not worried that if they stay home for fourteen days they're gonNA lose their job that they're not going to have money They're not worried about you. Know Black of universal paid sick leave and just today right just hours ago. We heard that the Senate decided not to decided to block. The universal paid sick leave. I mean where is the humanity in that we're bitterly in a pandemic? There's nothing I mean. This is like a horror movie and we still have folks who are determined to be as cruel as possible and it more than by the mind. If you have delivered attack we can talk about the fact that when the expand Medicaid and Medicare coverage Folks are not going to be worried about food about what to do when they're sick about wear any of those extensive are going to be. They're not worried about going to the hospital for respiratory honest. They're not gonNA worry about. There's a level of freedom and level of security of security that comes from Medicare for all bad can't be described any that we need look at the world where we are all feeling lot more secure in how we can actually help each other. There's a lot more that can do Emergency situation but then when can feel a little bit more secure? Stay home with our kid because we are not worried about childcare jobs but not worried about How can help care for each other in the fact that we don't have that in what we call one of the richest country we're on Shameful Yep that sounds about right I mean it's it's it's really interesting to to open the newspaper in the morning whether you're physically opening or or on your on your device And read about you know. It's just this whole thing is such a fascinating. I mean it's going to be a terribly traumatic. In so many ways people will die so many people get sick so many people will will suffer in one way or another People lose jobs lose money. The market's off all of these things just besides just the mental anguish it from so many different versions of this as if people weren't suffering not enough The past few years it is also this fascinating social experiment in a number of ways in that one Americans are getting up reading the paper and relay and and and we are as if we were a developing country looking at in reading about how things are going in Australia which to be clear was entirely on fire a month ago But but we're reading about how well they prepare. They were prepared for two months ago. And South Korea has has there are drive-by drive through testing and We're reading and going like well wouldn't that fuck and be nice And we don't usually have that reaction because that's not usually the case even though when people go and get their medical care when when they can you know afford it. It's it's it's pretty good do they. Just they're living in a vacuum. They don't realize how much it could. It could cost. Which is it could cost nothing. But but here's the crazy part right so you talk about those people having insurance and saying how much it could cause I will probably truth is how I started off the gang When I launched my campaign that boat truecar in my county. We're GONNA care about it. I will say that even folks with good insurance and I haven't been to a single about at this is truthful. I haven't been to a single event including like a visual that I went to or anti viral video that I would do where someone hasn't come up to me told me about healthcare horror stories and for the both hurt. The folks who come up to me have had insurance. We talked about how they have insurance and yet the bills are crazy yet. He'll burden yet. The premiums are insane What's it's almost worse but the it's almost like you're in this false sense of security. I have insurance. I got it for my employer or I bought a version of obamacare. That's just been butchered by now. And they think they're okay and then they get these bills and go. Hey what the fuck This is completely undoable like now. I can't eat and that that is not an exaggeration that happens all the time. Jeff and they feel that they can't complain because they had and they sit and we say this is not okay. This is not the way you should be living and I feel like you give permission for people to really think about how limited their lives are and really understand. You know what is happening in how how actually frankly the insurance company in the way. The health care system is deeply limit of human beings. So that when you add the pandemic on top of it and you realize that we have just screwed up. Former for an order of magnitude that cannot be accepted. I mean the testing itself is completely mind boggling to me so I was reading reports in the New Yorker about a month ago about Iran and the fact that they didn't believe in Guardian in an masks and it was a famous incident. Took the health minister saying oh no everything okay at Bali nail with their mortality or something like eight to eighteen percent and I thought well shocking. It is shocking and you know what the even more shocking are as unprepared in somewhat as Iran and to me. I don't understand how we can get to point like this unless they're deliberate actions in completely reckless negligence on part of on part of the White House and the administration and the fact that they have so much power devastating and we definitely need elected leaders. That are going to not just stand up against it. but loudly And form a coalition of other powerful leaders that are going to have the checks and balances because trump may not be there twenty twenty one which I'm GonNa do my hardest to make sure he's not Tree need other folks in Congress that are going to make sure that they provide all the checks and balances possible in the world that there is another trump but also to try and start to correction a damage. I mean we're not GONNA go magically back to where it was for years ago We've had irreparable harm down her shirt and by the way for years ago. Not that great for most people still and this is the whole like people are like. Oh we gotta go back and then it's like no no no no no the whole thing is like we got to build a thing and that's actually one of the things. I wanted to talk about a little bit. Which is you know. Should you win? you will be in a position to to be an instrument for for this actress rebuilding building a new. Which is something we already needed to do. But we will be digging out of a hole that's GonNa make you know the twenty two thousand eight two thousand nine recession you know. Look like a hiccup rebuilding our economy and our society again like people will will have been kept away from one another for the first time in a hundred years for four months probably and and so- rebuilding again the economy and the society which are which are both different. Things and entangled are gonNA require tremendous tacked an empathy and strategy and execution so. What can a freshman representative from the Great State of New Jersey? A mother a scientist an activist and immigrant due to contribute. What would you want to be part of an and where can you feel like? You can make the biggest differences as we do this truly once in a century rebuilding effort. You know what you said is exactly right. I mean part of what I what I was trying to say earlier is really in twenty twenty one or even a few months. What we're going to what we have is an opportunity to build a system that could hopefully be more equitable for everybody across the board. So fighting for degree new deal fighting for Medicare for all I think that especially after this pandemic is over and hopefully soon look. We're all going to be devastated in multiple different ways. We're all going to have to face the reality of what it was like. And what what? It will be And this is not to panic anybody but this is to understand that head neck sectors. Frankly are going to be more common happen. We'd be prepared for this to be prepared at the local government level which where I am but also at the federal government level clearly Because one of the things this is actually shown that when they start stepping up and they have to and counties in local. We really need all of those all of those all back But it's paramount that we have folks in at all government who form a in Congress who formed a broad coalition With other with other members of Congress with progressive be called them but also with everybody else that he that he will understand now. will understand a lot more about why we are so important One hundred percent when I go who when I am in Congress I will be fighting for to fix with really broken healthier. I will be fighting to make sure that do have a more equitable green. You deal by. I will be fighting to make sure that all the things that are broken are not just fixed but that we have entire That beliefs center on mobile no concern. He centered on the people. Feel like what we do. Now if censored on corporations and businesses That's a reality of where we are in politics today. And this is why we are stymied in almost all efforts to true meek. The revolutionary changes that look every day. We have crazy. I mean we talk about the pandemic right now but honestly field. Is there one two three four new thing that hit us on a daily basis and every day that we don't take bold action the that we wait and time is running out guys? It's Quinn if you're listening to this you obviously like podcasts. And you probably like music to on spotify you can listen to all of that in one place for free. You don't even need a premium account on spotify. You can follow your favorite podcasts. So you never miss an episode. You can download episodes to listen to offline wherever you might be and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends via spotify's integrations with social platforms like Instagram spotify. A huge catalog of podcasts. On every topic including the one. You're listening to right now. You can just search for important not important on the spotify APP or browse podcasts. In the library tap very convenient and of course you can follow us so you never miss an episode of important not important Spotify is the world's leading music streaming service. And now it can be your go to for podcasts. Too Wellness thing. I've always tried to help. People understand what the climate crisis is is. This is not like and this is not to trivialize basically anything but there are a large number of issues. Where should we vote in? One way or another legislate in one way or another. Those are just fixed. It's fairly overnight. again Again this is not to trivialize any of these things but the difference between like saying giving a section of society the ability to vote great now they can vote. That's done right. Theoretically I mean. They're still fighting bill voter suppression. Obviously we gotTA Voting Rights Bill Yada Yada. Climate crisis is an actual ticking clock and we're just incredibly behind on it and and that there is a point where it is going to be very difficult to dig out of and that. Is You know this this this this pandemic is a great illustration of that? Which is like we were not prepared. I mean ed young road such a fantastic artal article two years ago about. Hey to be clear. We're not prepared for something like this and that was like no. That's that's correct and again it's going to be. It's going to be terrible. We didn't get into this to be fearmongers. But we're trying to be objective and I feel like I'm on the phone with Johns Hopkins such every day but I it is just it is going to be terrible but at the same time we have to and I have to believe that we will learn from this and be infinitely better prepared for the next one because there will be another one and we have to be because we can't be worse prepared. No but you know and and the thing is to have that preparation we need folks in Congress who are not afraid of saying. This is the reality in. This is how we need to know whether or not God is going to get your elected in two years or six years or however that we need to have the moral leadership the leadership and no I don't believe in The axe details and integrity to be able to stand up and say it doesn't matter it doesn't matter the unpopular decision right now because I understand the reality and the Towards and guess what when you're a leader audible public opinion in that way you also showed leadership by doing the things that are unpopular supposedly but are the right thing to do and after all that is not why we let them theoretically. I don't know what we're doing anymore. I was that house. That's how it was explained to me in a political science and But I I don't know man art the could you we like to I love to know what gets people to where they are right. And what inspires and motivates people are. There are there Some books or Some some thinkers Who have taught taught you how to evaluate the world around you a in your own thinking how at an interesting question I don't know that I will say there is one one or two or three people although I do need a lot of Beat him actually quite a bit too. Yeah he's Great Bala Temper while I will say that I followed by twitter. I follow women in violence Fitter so all about that and I think that especially now with a lot of the meat you sign in other stories that are coming out with I find them to be so fulfilling. I actually tend to find that poetry is what drives me in Maya Angelou. If one of my favorite color impact of my husband might now have the at the time under his first dating. His first gift to me would actually Boca by Angela pub which I still treasure Nice job I know the reason. He is my husband now. But no it's it's really it poetry especially Within like a bike Maya Angelou that really feel like we can have profound impact in have Universal truths that out for poetry. That don't come out any other way. So that's extreme. I love that. Poetry is wonderful. It feels like the literary equivalent of of The Japanese turn Forest bathing just going for the walk in nature. It just it. It is so untethered to like iphone notifications from the New York Times. It is such an opposite world and and hopefully as it can be brief it can be long but hopefully as evocative enough different enough to to just move you to a different place at least temporarily Yet for sure and and not for nothing but I truly enjoy for his bathing as well. So Oh hell yeah. I didn't know that there was a term for gone and hanging out in the woods. That's incredible pretty great one to saving. It's amazing and like usually with everything you know in meditation in the past ten years like there's so much science behind it they're like no you should really just go for a walk in the woods. Everything that's so great now. It's great when I when I kick my kids at the door. I can now say go for US bathe instead of house. That's great. I love it Artie. What are what are some of the biggest obstacles that that you run into it? And how do you feel like those are going to translate into your new career so a gene obstacles running running a primary campaign obstacles in life? You tell me you don't mean it could be. Your dog doesn't want to go for a walk. You could be primate can being. It'll be balancing being a working mother. You Know Again. We in cases like this. We want to help illustrate people like you should really hard and these are the specific things in this is how I I at least try to deal with them. Yeah no shit is really hard. But I'm fortunate enough to have a fantastic support system so that helps nobody especially these days really enjoy having a primary challenger of the consensus seems to be especially in the D. Triple eight that you don't primary challenge a Democrat and I completely reject that premise. Heiner are one hundred percent what we need to do in democracy. We need to have conversation. We need to really explore the idea that we need to explore. Because at least Nike's Congress number does not reflect the real democratic values. I in my case I do and we need more folks in Congress who are going to get be reflective of of the way bite visit. He alright that's a challenge. When I first announced him it was incredible. The amount of He bo who told me I was overreaching that I should wait my turn. that I was never gonNA win. That was never going to have a movement that we're not gonNA take easy and all of it is not true. I mean we are despite the barriers despite the hoop straight jump through the packs of each of a fee for example blacklist staff members. Who who who will work for my campaign for example Or the establishment Democrats elected officials feel like they cannot come out publicly in support me because of you know because I'm running Come in despite the fact that they knew me. Respect me Like me in the things that have good ideas Besides the fact that I am not taking corporate back money off of money which he said no fundraising extra hard. This is all of that by campaign has gained so much momentum the fact is we have endorsements from national organizations like Progressive Change Campaign Committee Really proud of getting endorsements from national local individual as well as water action all of that and the fact is we have this grassroots movement. We are knocking on thousand doors or more a week and that tells you how much the campaign Bethany with people in the district. Homage lightning with people. Really want the kind of And really to me. It's about standing up in allowing other folks who D- understand that you can bite me think that it's not just all you know nothing's ever GonNa Change. This is just the way it is. And if you don't you never gonNa get and to me. I think that's one of the most important thing that had come out of this campaign and look I am definitely never gonNa Outright. My opponent a definitely not what? I'm not taking corporate pacman fossil fuel money. I refused to achieve and doing things the right way but one hundred percent where outworking him and one hundred percent myebon tears. Mit It more dedicated. More committed to God that I think he his or were very. I will put that up against almost any other campaign Establishment campaign have and. It has nothing to do anything except purely understanding that we need to build that better system right surely understand that we need to make bruce to make life more equitable everybody. At the end of the day I started off saying this is essential crisis. It's an existential crisis. I Rose I mean you read out so we need more. Legislators we need more people who are really fighting who voting for Media. We need representatives on all levels within being on council Being no making sure that we have folks at the local level who also believe in climate change. Try New that needle whether or not you're on the board of ED Were your local council or county or state level that count. That is really boring. On Joe There are definitely various. Definitely as a woman of color But I will tell you. It's amazing that when you're doing the right thing how many people come over to your side and joined the fight. So I'M GONNA keep hoping that I'm GonNa be working hard to make sure that continues avid. I love it and if you could just get Brian the social security numbers of all those due to wait your turn. We'll just go ahead and I'm ready He's already finished cocktails ready to do some beat downs. Rathi we. I think I mentioned this to you. And we're so proud of our of our army here. We we've so many listeners. Who've spent the past few years taking action of of some sort whether it's you know terrified and and calling a representative for the first time in their life and just leaving a message and feeling like Oh God I did it. Or they're marching. They ran for something local or even more or or there are scientists and they've just been doing it the whole time you know but you as we detailed early you've spent so much your life using a video game term here leveling up in this in this of of helping people in a variety of ways and now you're trying to help everyone. What advice do you have for people who might be interested in necessarily following in your footsteps? But who might be interested in learning from you? Are there steps or advice you feel like everyone could could benefit from or or missteps that they could benefit from even more in in hindsight? I'm curious I will tell you the same thing that I actually. I was invited to this lovely intern. Who has exceeded She's one of my earliest volunteers. When I was actually running for council and she asked me to say a few words that you get the same advice the same advice I would give myself Go Out of your kids even if it means ball noble and sharing your story even if it means going a tiny bit out of your comfort zone do it asked for propaganda rather than permission question assumptions in executions and honestly at the end of the day. Just do it. Just click the Chan. Jin Can you? Can you give me an example where you've asked for forgiveness instead of permission? Oh Gosh here's the biggest one. I announce my primary challenge in only about Henry in the world knew I was going to challenge my congress number. That was definitely a case of not asking for permission And just being bold and doing it I went ahead announce it not. Many people knew and people were frankly shocked to end the number one complaint. I got from the phone calls that I got that day was. Oh my gosh. Why did you ask for permission? And you absolutely do not avert anybody heard Mitch requests for permission to do the right thing so that would be the biggest example. I have of not asking permission and also not asking for forgiveness either. By the way I think that we especially women especially women of color needs to take our own space we need to you need to occupy the space that we have in the world Door shink away from the talented because we belong here. We have things to say. We are valuable. Our ideas are important in our voices. They might not be as loud if other people but they are just as important if not more important than others hell yes I love every bit of it. and and I would love if your voices were the loudest or just the only ones at this great if everybody just shut up listen. What a glorious item say you can't power can be taken but not given right so we we we all those of us who are a minority in some way she performed need to go ahead and start figuring out how to take our own power and I will tell you that. Prophet of taking as she says is empowerment. That's exactly right buck. Incredible and car control On that note on that note. Let's get some action steps We want to make sure that our listeners can Support you And your mission with their voice and their vote and their dollar so so let's get into that And I'll start with their with their voice. What are what are big actionable specific questions that we can that we can and should be asking of of our representatives we can and should be asking Oliver representatives not only where they stand on pollution in the environment and all of that really should be after numb are they. How are they going to both for? Greenie deal hardly GONNA make that reality. How are they gonNA help push Medicare for all there? Are they going to help fix a broken healthcare system to keep asking him over and over and over again? We need to make sure that we know exactly where they are. Pin Down on specifics A where they are what they want to do. In how and how you feel about it I think that's. That's something that is a paramount importance. And you can do this by emailing by calling. If you don't feel like you know if you don't feel like emailing but I know that a lot of folks writer like to write letters in Nelson Just acted in when we see bill. That are coming up. Make sure that your representatives is on the right side of history and make sure you call. They want you to be on this side because it counts every every phone. Call every now count. I will opt not a metaphor Kuwaiti. Literally right actually I will tell you even on the local level recount up so when I get you know when we have a topic that seems to be of importance to people out there are times that folks have come to the number of emails Received on one side of the other And there are people who do make a decision that way so a a judge literally count Back one day. If you believe in any part of having robots discussions I would say this is the sound of Disney or may not sound like. I'm talking about politics but really have conversations with your neighbors be a little bit brief and start talking about climate change. Be a little bit brave and start sharing your story about the healthcare system. That's broken and you will be surprised at what you neighbors will tell you. And how much they will share their stories and really that that connection that we need like real world connection right that we need to start building a movement and to start building an understanding of. What's really I would say that as well I feel I mean. Wi with their vote. I sort of feel like we. We know but I think this is actually we do know I mean as a career variety but at the same time You know I think going back to something. Rathi just said which is like. Hold people accountable. you know where there's there's there's no green new deal to vote on. I because a it's not a piece of legislation has fifty different things coming together but people should be on record now. How they're gonNA vote and it's actually great. It's they can't forget because if they haven't said yes fucking primary like let them know that you're going to support someone else. Let them know that you're aware of that now that they're being watched that one hundred percent the so. I started right so we asked a representative. That'd be asked my primary right now. How how he felt by Green. You deal how you felt about. Medicare for all and he said those pieces of legislation are those concepts are going nowhere. And I don't think they're going to go anywhere to me. That was mind-boggling. Like I had fifty people my backyard. God for you and you what? Yeah I purchased it. I protested outside his office. I asked to speak with him with a bunch of other folks and I said no listen. I don't understand why you need to go anywhere unless you're making sure it's not going anywhere. This is important. We need a coalition of people. We need to to really push it because this is critical. This is what we want as your constituents in the fact that you won't even talk about it you won't even give it the time of day. It's what's wrong with the system. So absolutely primary people definitely vote for representatives who have the same values as you who are going to vote for Greenie deal. We're GONNA vote for Medicare for at least those contacts of hundred percent. Hold them accountable for what they tell you and I will say I will add to it but both for boop or support candidates who are truly not taking corporate tax money or fossil fuel many because if we really want to progress in American politics you can't have elected officials that are beholding to corporation. They're seeking permission from corporate donors weaned to have elected official. Burger only to hold it to concession the people and you know we just had a really good conversation. That's GONNA come out well. I mean we're space-time continuum here that's coming out right before yours with doctor stokes fantastic She's a Canadian. Who for some reason like yourself moved to America and probably regrets it? She says she doesn't. She's an America. Yeah I know. I think she's being held hostage anyways. She her work. She's new book coming out but her work is focused on. How when you finally write that letter or you call your representative of whatever level and you also vote for clean energy or climate action or Medicare for whatever it might be how. Yes they count all of those. But then how that gets fucked up by corporate interests and lobbying groups and the fact that. What was the Stat Brian from our newsletter? They spend eighty-five million dollars in the two thousand eighteen election alone fossil fuel groups. And so that's not to say those calls and letters aren't being counted. They are they have to. It's that it's not that simple and that's what we're fighting against and so we have to defeat that and then put people in office like yourself who don't answer to that money and I can't explain enough how it's like herd immunity if we got enough people in there. That don't do that the entire world. Change everything changes. Those people have nowhere to send their money anymore. Anyways how do we throw money at your campaign money by yet you can go to my website? It's earthy congress dot com into a are AGI EPO OUR CONGRESS DOT COM grice. Yes and there's an actual link of employees really definitely aggressive. Move any amount of any amount that you can contribute. It's GONNA go along why we're a lead machine. I'm running my campaign out of my house at taken over the the first Laura in my basement so that money is not going anywhere. Except in reaching out to the voters scrappy scrappy gets done it scrappy and and it's for medical. I will say I will put up Ed. My volunteers again. The against anybody else we are. We are on it. I love that. Listen we're getting in an hour or something. We're so. Sally skype ruined her day for like twenty minutes even got started a and this has been no know. Thank you so much for time We just have a couple questions. Brian has told me I'm legally obligated. Not I can't call it a lightning round causing a lightning round. Which would infer that. It's quick it's quick. It's quick she's gotta go. All right. Dr Crybaby last few. When was the first time in your life when you realized you had the power of change the power to do something meaningful? I in my life her change juicing meaningful. I would say this is going to sound very crazy I was about ten and or maybe nine and I had to help my mom navigates. The American visa process and I had to divide Had to translate now a bit of the paperwork for him for her Edward my younger brothers entail and I realized that at that moment that I really was the connection between nine family and own kind of bureaucracy. There ways that I could make this year so yes I think that was it. That's Pretty Rad. I mean the thing that led to everything else and there's so many stories of people not much having a daughter but but anyone who can assist them in that process that gets and process just goes note goes nowhere or they forget to fill out one form or one line and they're stuck and they can't go anywhere and none of this happens. We don't fix New Jersey around. Who is someone in your life? That's positively impacted. Your work in the past six months. Oh in the past. Six months specific they could not have done it. Beforehand is just the six months this is very I mean. Look I need your apartment questions okay. Let's just answer it. Very concrete people can just say anything and we won't know by the way people all the time I know but clearly this is an existential crisis for me right now in the passage I will say It's my friend Laura Laura at the. She actually helped me with my first run in the past six months she actually with my serve interim campaign manager putting her life on hold with her to locates and she's still helping A she is a bad one is have its whole team of that woman. I will tell you heard in everyone. Admitting give shoutout and a mad a lovely Cura Alice Becca. They're making cabinet. They're the ones who Not Just pee scene but bolstered give me a both strength and confident and shoulder to cry on all the time. They have changed my life in ways. I can't even begin to tell you of you know at this point. And they're the reason that I can do anything that I do. So it's my it's my squad. I suppose I love that. Is that kitchen cabinet reference. An aunt like an Andrew Jackson reference. Or are you going back far except of course mine is way better than you know? I mean you could have said anyone. Better Andrew Jackson to be clear what you're saying that's very old. Reference boy doctoring at home. Brian Bring it home bringing it home. Thank you Quinn. What do you feel? Sorry what do you do? I mean when you feel overwhelmed healthcare. Oh Gosh self-care. I'll time I actually so this is going to go back to forest bathing. Is You take a walk? My Dog I'm looking to live near Arboretum. Two blocks away. What my favorite places no world of so I do that And or at the same time Call up what am I you know one of my squad they let me rant and rave so both of those things. They're therapeutic berry. I gotta get out into the woods more also I also I hear your cocktails are good physical care. They're so good I didn't make the on the male is it? It's fine it's fine. We got it Aren't the if you could send one book to Donald Trump? What would you send him? That is so difficult I mean. Would he know? I feel like we need a disclaimer ninety episodes and we need to put a disclaimer. Yes someone imagine it's audible or someone who read it to immortalize pick up. I mean that kind of like a beginning. Okay so for real I would send him. I don't know do any good. That's the problem I think we're beyond that just to be clear. I would give him big. Yeah I would go with poetry. I would set him the giving tree With absolutely no hope of you know anything happen or Sent Him You know night by Alid L. C. One of the to help but honestly to good choices. I'll be crying the rest of the day. The last thing any last brief speaking truth to power that you want to say to our listeners for you get out of here any laugh things I know the whole world feels like it's falling apart and I know like on a daily basis that are field like nothing is GonNa go right but I find such hope such hope because every day I need people who just want to take action and would step up and that's what we did after the bye kitchen open election in twenty sixty and I I am an optimist optimus in like. Let's do the work you know we can. We can do it with hard work kind of way right and I know that if we just all step up even a little bit. We're going to make a huge difference And sometimes that means be brave in real life and having fun precision our neighbors and have tons it means of being brave by trying to primary incumbent Congress member who is one of the most conservative Democrats in powerful has voted with trump more times than not in his first year But I think we all have it and I To do just a little bit more these days and I ended that. That's what's GonNa make us be okay. The end works for me. Get off your asses people. Let's do it I mean. Don't leave your house. You're not allowed to get off your ass inside your house right right right. Digitally go outside your hand touching your face. Now it's like I've spent years for sure you feel you've got two boys like boys or monsters. I've spent my kids entire life. Like telling them to stop touching their face. I forget to tell everybody that I know that in Washington who was not doing this why it's not anymore like who is not washing their hands very upsetting. The answer is every guy in every airport bathroom anyways. Listen this is the basis been so great doctor Roffe. Thank you so much for your time For stalking US always love hearing from those stalkers. At least you didn't glue letters to a piece of paper like some people have but I didn't pick up. We will pull ticket. Bryant feel pretty good given the motor. Can we follow you on language comparable to follow you on twitter facebook and instead it's all art before Congress and a are numeral four Congress? Ooh That's not that's not clear. What is it was your Sensi. L. Crazy cringing cringing not cringe. It's pretty cool because I follow you all have the podcast so God. I'm sorry. Show this such a wider world out there. All right listen you gotta campaign run endorsed knock on hopefully with your washing hands afterwards Good luck we will talk to you very soon. Brian's just can be taken care of those few people and everything those numbers. That's thank you Rafi. Thank you and we will talk to you soon. I really appreciate it. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or Fucking Dole. Walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp just so weird also on facebook and Instagram. At important not important. Pinterest and Tumbler the same thing so check us out. Follow US SHARE. Us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts. Keep the lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website important not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our jammed. Music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day thanks guys.

Medicare Congress Brian Calvert scientist representative twitter Congress Congress spotify New Jersey US India vice president Chronic Diane DOT COM Kennedy
#93: All The Fun Stuff (That Shouldnt Be) in Your Drinking Water

Important, Not Important

1:06:16 hr | 2 months ago

#93: All The Fun Stuff (That Shouldnt Be) in Your Drinking Water

"Welcome to important not important mine name is Quinn. Emmett. and. My name is Brian Calvert Kennedy. This is the podcast where we give you the tools you need to fight for a better future for everyone the context straight from the smartest people on Earth and the action steps you can take to support them. That's right. Nor guests are scientists, doctors, nurses, engineers, farmers, politicians, astronauts, seaweed farmers. We've got a reverend. You through seaweed farmers in there I like that one that was a good episode This is your friendly reminder that you can send us questions, thoughts or feedback to us on twitter at important not imp or email us at fun talk at important not important dot com. That's right. You can also join tens of thousands of other smart people subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at important not important dot com. On this week's episode Brian, we're talking about all the fun stuff that's in your drinking water. Yeah. What you can do about it so fun. Guest is a Mari Walker. She's an expert on micro-plastics my understanding, very small plastics well done, and she's also a true revelation to talk to she is she is curiosity. Intelligence enthusiasm. She is she's the type of person I'm very excited is leading the way on these. Sort of things we aligned were hats she has it all. Yup We can just skip right over that. anyways. This was great. We're excited to be back and let's go talk to Amari. Let's do it. Our guest today is Maury Walker and together, we're going to talk about what's in your water and more than ever. That answer is stuff that shouldn't be Maury. Welcome. Thank you. It's great to be here. We're so happy that you're here. Could you maybe just tell everybody who you are what you do? Yeah. So I am actually at Duke University, I make graduate students starting my fifth year studying micro-plastics. So my doctoral dissertation is in civil and Environmental Engineering Department. Uh studying chemicals associated to plastic and how they end up in. Things like our fresh water or the stomach acid in a bird or fish, and just understanding how those chemicals transform in possibly more toxic than the original products. But yeah, I'm a engineer and chemist. Chemists, Great Brian it's just like you. Same as me yes. Amos me you said, you went to Duke and Queen you love Duke Right look. It's not that I don't love. Duke. It's one of my good friends growing up as like a UNC basketball guy and so. I know I know I know I know sorry about this Amari. Like. We. Don't have to high. It's it's it's different than. Saying. My undergrad was at UC. Berkeley. So my to rival his Stanford right now. Oh Nice Nice Nice my wife. And my wife went to Stanford but she also doesn't care about sports and so people are very confused on they're like Berkeley's terrible. She's we can all be friends. Yeah. We we can work on it. Said holy cow quickly as a reminder to everyone because we haven't done this in a while Our goal always is to provide some context for what we're talking about today and then dig into a action oriented questions that we can all ask to help support today's topic and and Amaury Yup that sounds pretty great to me. We'll see if he can remember how to do this been a little bit of a hiatus. which is which things have been a little a little crazy out there. Just, a little bit just a little bit anywhere anyways Ann Mari We like to start with one important question to set the tone for the chaos follow Instead of saying, tell us your entire life story we like to ask Amari wire you vital to the survival of the species. If I just had like a compilation of guests making that noise after first reaction we need to do that. Yeah it's great. Great. The the easy answer there is that I'm just one person in a collective of people that care about leaving the world a better place than it started, but I I kind hope to. Be Relevant in the fact that I am a black female environmental engineer in chemist trying to change the world as far as micro-plastics in water quality and you know I'm trying to be an inspiration to other people who may not have considered a career I'm like this or you know a the that you can't be a scientist or engineer and even a science communicator. So I'm hoping to take a little bit more of a public facing way to show people that there are people out there trying to change the world that sounds like an easy enough job. A little. Moment I love that. Thank you for being so thoughtful about it and I by the way I'm sure you will pick these at some point, but I'm GonNa do so now but your youtube videos which I it seems like the channels fairly newish is that correct? That is correct. It's A. I'm a massive fan of them. They are just fantastic and I love that you explain in your in your intro, and then also in the videos that they're not just for you know regular Youtube Science nerds but also I love the ones that are positioned towards folks looking to go to college or are in college or doing postgraduate research and stuff. Why did you make that decision settled when I decided a mid Corona I guess is my corona crisis. Lot Worse Yeah you're killing That I, I wanted to do something that was meaningful and I realized that all of these conferences were ending like being canceled as like how am I gonNa Communicate Science if we can't eat base to base and talk about my research. But. I realized that the the entire community needs to know about this kind of work like not just the scientists in when I told my mom I wanted to youtube channel. She was like great because I have a lot of ideas you need to tell all your cousins about how to get into college and you know you can make the video for everybody. And so she was very like, yes, like you know all the south about like how to get into the top colleges in the country and how get scholarships to pay your way and just talk about your experience because that can be meaningful to other people that haven't seen. You know a a black woman talk about these kinds of things I. think she spent. The Best Yeah I know we can we how do we get her on the line? This is I mean in addition to your great but it seems like your mom is fantastic. She's great I love her, and like I talked a lot about this before with our she issue going to listen to this. Absolutely. All about it oh Jesus the pressure Oh my God. is she how she gonNA feel by you? If there's a couple of bombs involved in this in some come on I'm GONNA try not to I'll say she's very fluent so she. I mean, if you're not like four months into covid then I I don't know man it's like it wasn't there science came out the Brian we talked about this. It says it actually helps relieve stress. Absolutely. I'm sure my mom right now is, is he taking care of? A elementary school, you know my little sister and both time being attorney. So it's Slough to big job to handle as one person. That's awesome. Well, she's sounding more and more bad s should we do Brian? Should we send Brian to help? Would you think that would help or make it more difficult for her? She's in Sacramento is. Road trip are those allow I don't even know those allowed this much Los Angeles is just burning down anyways. Let's get to our topic today, which is the things that are in our water that aren't supposed to be in one. Version of that in particular, just a super quick context think basically so things I pulled from the Internet. In two thousand, eighteen there were about three, hundred, fifty, nine. Metric tons of plastics produced worldwide, which is lot I don't know how many whales that is what I probably could have done the math on it but up and then twenty seventeen study in the journal. Science advances estimated that if CRYP reduction in Waste Management Trends continue roughly twelve billion metric tons of plastic waste will be in landfills or in the natural environment by twenty fifty, which is a just doesn't sound great with the questions are. Where the hell does all that come from and why and how do we stop doing that? So I wanNA dig into our topic of the week here water micro-plastics why are they in the water and thus most likely in my body, which is Bryan, can tell you until now basically was a temple so Before we get to that Question Your College dissertation at Berkeley and correct me if I'm wrong here was on the quantification of particulate inorganic carbon sedimentation using autonomous carbon flux explorer is that is that. Back Yeah. That's it. Is that back to the future? With that is what is carbon flux at like did you invite? delorean. What Wow this is a long time ago by. My Advisor Back at Berkeley James Our JIM Bishop, he designed robots to go to different parts of the ocean and just basically have a shamrock facing up towards the sky and it record whatever dirt or like dead organisms with collect onto the camera, and then get off every hour or so and I'd like thousands of pictures at different depths. In I basically traded code with some of the other graduate students to understand or like identify what was organic versus inorganic and try and quantify the number of particles over time So that was that was like a way of trying to understand the carbon cycling in how that was changing with depth. You say like, Oh, I just basically kind of made some coated filters nobody you organic versus organic. One of my favorite games to play is and to be clear like I would be fully guilty. This is to ask Brian after one of our scientists or engineers or. Whatever talks about something such as that to ask Brian? How would how would you do that? Where would you begin that process and? Who who who can know, who can always a welcome question yeah. Yeah. I'm sure team of Tetris I. Think I remember you just look at different pixels and. Identify them as particles are not. Sounds easy she mocking us. Okay. What we're talking about micro-plastics right let's let's get on the same page. I guess everybody at home and honestly me to I don't know it's happening. Yep. Where do they come from? What are they? What. Are they. So micro-plastics are just pieces of plastic that are smaller than five millimeters. So that is smaller. Bush. End was going to say this is America. We don't do millimeters here, MRI. It was so hard like when you switch to research, you gotta go to the units now So it was quite a bit adjustment I was like converted inches but no. It basically, you have one of those tax on on a bulletin board or. That is anything smaller than not at top of the pin is what we would call micro plastic and they They can be what we call primary micro-plastics, which are things that you can find in face wash or like your body scrubs or even sometimes toothpaste. Those are just like tiny spherical micro plastic set. US All the time I had no idea that that was plastic in my body wash of right. In. There is secondary micro-plastics and so those are things like anything we throw away or gets improperly disposed of like. A. Plastic is going to degrade over time and sometimes it takes a up to hundreds of years, but with the exposure from like the environment where you're getting supposed to. A water a little bit of wind and sunlight those the combination of those factors along with a mechanical abrasion processes. So I always imagined like a water bottle used throughout the year long beach trip sitting on the shore in those waves in the sander hitting it informing micro plastic particles I mean it doesn't sound raked I'm going to be. Okay. So some of it's like they were it was like water bottles and like normal things and now feel. That people think of first, right right. Right Oh. Yeah. I mean the things that that get degraded over time and I think the one that we don't think about as often is actually micro fibers. So the things that come from our clothing that were wearing so I don't know when the last time we checked the labels on our clothes other than to see what the size is to make sure we're not. You know this isn't shrinking or. Is Get mine tend to shrink quite a bit I'm going to be. But you know things that aren't labeled cotton like things that are labeled ray on or polyester Those are plastic were are stretchy. Pants are forms of plastic and whenever we wash them or even throw them in the dryer they're releasing thousands of these micro fibers out into our environment. Okay. Yes. I was just GonNa say how do they get into the air and then of course the water? Yeah. So let's talk about Air the so I will say clothing. So when you throw these in the drier, you've got your you know your outlet. You already have collector, but it's not gonNA learn everything. It's GonNa. Things are gonNA flow out into. The air. So that's that's definitely a factor of at least from like our indoor environment releasing fibers out outdoors. But so have these like Yoga Pants, right? The kind of not the very comfortable with. Them you did yoga no their for their for wearing comfortably wearing Obama. So just call him comfortable pants then don't put aligned yourself that you deserve each aware of their call it's called leisurewear. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for that. Sorry about Quinn show when I dry those literally pieces of classic is going into the air. Yes. So they're releasing a a large amount of our fibers and. At least on the outdoor side as well. We have. You know whenever we get in our car in gopher a drive. Of US are actually getting our cars these days but When we turns out everyone in Los Angeles has been for three months and that's part of the problem. Own. Separate. Separate. Discussion. I mean they're all related. six in find change they all come together to the honest. Dried you're driving on tires that are made of synthetic rubber and that whenever you combine pavement and attire, you're GONNA get. You know tire rebel, tire us. That's another micro-plastics that's being released into our air into our waterways with rain events and then I think the last air example I think about is whenever Countries decide to burn their trash. So not every not every country has a you know waste management practices that. Will you know? Do things like landfills and stuff. Some of them will just outright earn trash and release all kinds of toxic chemicals and sometimes smaller fragments of the plastic into the air. Crate. Yet it seems great. Yeah. Not to scare you but that happens. Right. So that's how that's why all this crap is in our air and our water. Yeah and like I mean we. We can you know we're inhaling it in some ways like? Outdoor dust probably not as much indoor. The indoor environment is definitely probably more significant in for worried about how much inhaling. Just because we're were. Carpets we furniture or clothes or plastic these others almost probably like ten more exposure. To micro-plastics if for looking in the indoor environment which I mean, we're we're now endorsed more outdoor. Yes. Well, it's interesting. How much that seems to have come up in the past few years even when we're talking about things like natural gas because you know obviously and obviously this is this is completely unequal like the rest of America outside there there's large portions of the country where the is is very toxic and his bad and we've always thought like Oh being inside is better but it turns out you know there's a large number of toxic not just. Terrible cleaning products that magically got everything white for forty years. You know also give your kids cancer It's things like the natural gas stove or fireplace or or whatever. It might be in your home and it turns out I guess all the micro-plastics like you said Bert were washing or breathing whatever it might be. It seems like being inside his not great. It's not perfect. It's a sad situation I say back often if you see us accumulating I'm back. What do so what do we know about what micro-plastics to to our bodies and I guess what do we not know yet I think. As far as for like the human health perspective, we don't know much to say definitively a what's going to happen they've done work on like model model species like rats Dec-. What could possibly happen in the human body in some that were particularly worried about our Okay. Let's talk about inhalation. So we're inhaling a plastic into our lungs that really depends on the size of the micro plastic if. We get closer to a Nanno Nanno range, which is like less than a hundred micrometres. Those have the ability to deposit in the deep laws, and so with that, we're worried about the idea of getting lesions in our respiratory system. So that's like kind of a question of like inflammation cancer like Mommy don't know but they have done I. Think they've done biopsies of human lungs that used to work in. Textile in, they would find like micro plastic fibers in their lungs and so But you know there's no study that actually points any of this at this point but it's it's definitely one of the concerns for inhalation or ingestion I'd say like whenever we consume micro-plastics whether that comes from like our table salt to you know getting a beer or even drinking Drinking water or drinks that have micro-plastics consuming seafood plastic in my beer. this plastic year it's. Ok. Okay. Depress. Depress. Just an intervention for Brian yet. I mean working if we're going to avoid everything micro blasting, it's it's going to be close to impossible right now You choose your battles but you know like your, you know we're consuming it not only is it you know in our food, but you're sitting indoors in your dinner plate is just you know sitting there and you're eating your dust particles are falling onto your food. So you're probably getting more micro-plastics from just your indoor air environment landing on your state than the actual state with micro-plastics i. don't I don't know steak has micro-plastics, but probably I mean sticks not great. Know. Exactly, but they have been looking into vegetables and other things like other things like fruit to find micro plastic particles within them. So we can talk about soil in a second, but you know when you have the opportunity to or when you're consuming microbus ksfo worry is that it can accumulate in our stomach. If it's not food out which we have found micro-plastics it's official I didn't do that work. That's not. But you know it can possibly move into blood vessels and ended up accumulating in places like our liver. And so that's you know a big concern from for ingestion. Is there Just not enough like how come there's so much uncertainty. There's just not enough yet. It hasn't been studied for long enough. I it's a combination of that. Not Not. I search in that field in liked to study humans is very difficult. Right inside there's you know there's a lot of ethics I think that work by. You know I just looking in through what I can of people that are trying to do this work, but it still it's so recent the the new interest in in what's going to happen to humans. But we've seen a lot of things that have happened to like things like marine organisms where they lose energy or metabolism or it gets clogged in their stomachs they're unable to remove micro-plastics from their bodies and then that can lead to things like Lord Energy levels the possibility of lower fertility and ability to reproduce. summering organisms just die because they can't travel it. There's chemicals associated these plastics. So there's a whole host of possibilities when we talk about like what affects for marine organisms because they're continually interacting with them in our oceans. In freshwater environments I know a study found that coca pods when they were consuming micro-plastics, they lost I, think they stop eating like about forty percent of their normal food take food intake a just kind of reduced that in so that made their eggs become smaller and then it made that it music that. They're less likely to actually hatch those eggs. So it affected their entire population. Yeah it's scary. It seems like you know as usual we've. We've put started pulling a string and we're finding with finding out other things. We should know the things we don't know yet you know where? Seen like fifteen years ago it was. Oh Hey, one will stop buying SODA A to if you'RE GONNA buy Soda Make Sure You cut the rings. So the fish you know in the dolphins don't donate the plastic rings and they choke and it turns out. Oh, it's not just the the the large six inch plastic rings. It's it's those don't break down and then when they do be turned into very tiny micro-plastics. Oh, also that come from other things, not just your suit on your earrings. Clothing or or you know chemical factories and those get into bloodstreams. It just seems like the rule of like if this than what else Oh, yeah and and I think when you talk about like the Soda Can, we forget that it may be metal on the outside, but it's plastic on the inside there. Usually lying with what's called the poxy among the base chemical associated. To a poxy is vista as so I think a lot of people when they say there's chemicals in plastic what are you talking about but then they see things like EPA free bottles like children's products and I think that's one that people are got really excited about instead like we need this out of our, you know our out of our products, but they didn't realize that. was replaced with other kinds of pistols. Spill S. You know are somewhat more toxic in studies than the original products so. Yeah. This is a lot to the story of plastic so even An humans are very happy to look for the easy answer the easy win. Sure. You know like banning plastic bag somewhere and then going today essentially. It seems like the like. I guess because there's not a ton of clarity there's not much concrete evidence and we can make good guesses at. That's probably why you know there's an issue regarding like big action being taken place You know being taken about this since we can't since we can't prove it that that it's like herding on a vast scale. There's no way that we're GONNA throw. A wrench into capitalism. Oh now I mean I mean we don't do shit about cars and we've we've read it forever. So, if we can move outside the house a little bit as with all things in America it's important to point out that these are not just coming from you know. Your your clothes or or the the consumer products you buy their from a in a large way coming out and please correct me if I'm if I'm wrong here from a lot of these petrochemical. Factories is as well. Is that correct? Said they are. Producing the plastics burning those you know taking oil making plastic. But. Yeah I actually don't know the percentage associated to like household use of plastic amuses anything else I'd say that classic packaging is a huge Lasting. That's just accumulating a necessarily. I. It's interesting. I'm curious. I mean we know about all the. Like for instance, all the petrochemical plants that are mostly around the Gulf coast right like. Up and down the river Louisiana. Right Cancer Alley. Those things that's famous like that has been a nightmare for forty years whatever. So I'm I'm curious how those come into play as well, and now of course, they're they're adding more those in in Texas and they're building more in Pennsylvania and part of the reason is, and this is how we touch on a lot of things years when I was doing my reading, you know talking so much about how? You know, of course, electric vehicles are growing and and and so Eventually car you know car cars on combustion engines will be outlawed everywhere and that starting in Europe and it'll eventually I mean at some point happened here you'd think are the whole thing is over but the oil companies like were fine because we're just gonNa make more plastic because you people can't stop buying plastic and they're building these things like within a mile of schools in some places and of course, they're not like. They're not schools were like private white kids go right so it's. It's it's interesting to me that that. It seems like we're just starting to fight this fight right because these these chemical plants and he's the petrochemical plants and refineries that are like you said, are making the plastics refining them from from a petroleum are in the air and the water of America's black and Brown people and and it seems like we haven't even started to take that on. Yeah. I'm just trying to take a step back and look at sort of the bigger the institution of like, where is it all coming from like? What's basically I don't know if you're a video game person but like the final boss where actually going to have to take on here you know. Out I agree I think that a lot of you know they're they're they're arguing that it's more demand but. There's a huge environmental justice issues as needed with steak week. Yeah. If you're building it around communities of color and disadvantaged places there. I always come to question like, well, what does the Air GonNa be like near there? What is one of the water going to be like when they're consuming it and I know that's also a reason for why especially like in the black community when I talked to my family like, Hey, you should stop drinking out of a bottle of water and like getting a reusable glass bottle or whatnot they're like, well, I'm not drinking tap water like, did you not see what happened? Michigan with her head you know I've I've been drinking out of bottled water since the dawn of time like I I remember as a kid that we just never used for awhile and certain households like we would always reach for the Solo Cup and you know the Faucet Plate and I was just normal is that we didn't need things that were not static and you're from Georgia Georgia. Right. So I'm from I'm from California Baiocco Georgia I live. Okay for high school. So that was it was just pretty normalized as far as what I understood was that like classic makes things easy and I trust the water because. You know people are out there poisoning wiser and so. While there are stories like that were disadvantaged. Communities are not getting a proper water quality that's not necessarily true for the entirety of the United States and so I at least like my videos that I make are trying to empower people especially communities of color that have a distrust of water to consider looking at their county website for water information even like Ugg to get like a contracting information like what other contaminants are present in doing their own water, all testing kits if you're really worried about that kind of stuff but yeah, I think the the real pressure is our. Plastic production is should be on corporations to really take a look at why are we continually producing all this plastic since World War Two, it's almost exponential in so I think. It's time it trying to. Really, you know pressure these companies just are. You now ramping down a little bit too. Considering what the effect is on the rest of the world in our communities and it's so complicated right and this is where you really have to. Try to engage as much as possible in insistence, thinking in first principles and such as. It is completely understandable Y, your family and other families in. Georgia. Oregon it especially in in Texas in those areas or flint in all of Detroit why they would be skeptical of city run water or you know Of not privately-owned and why they would just buy bottled water but at the same time now you're telling them yes. Yes. But also there's this other problem with the thing you've used as an answer. which is you know don't drink out of the bottles and the things you wear and Cetera et cetera please don't get a well because the wells aren't monitored. You know they don't are verified by any sort of water-quality thing where I'm stuck on this a little bit because we're having a where I'm going to conversation very soon with with some folks who are really into the water stuff and you're right it's something like eighty five percent of American water of Public Public Utility Water in America doesn't have any safety issues and that's really great on sort of global. Scale. But I don't think we can escape the fact that sort of the varying fifteen to twenty percent that does have issues is predominantly in areas of of black and Brown people and or people below the poverty line. So again, it's understandable why people would be skeptical and why they would say no I'm just GonNa you know by the thirty back of Busek water from CVS every week. I mean I get it. You know. It's scary because you know, let's also fashion of equity that bottle of water is almost charge like three thousand times more than tap water. You're paying more basically put tap water in a plastic bottle is all to you a premium. So it's just huge huge issue of equity, and then you're not only drinking the tap water, but you're drinking heavily the chemicals associated to that bottle in. TAP. Water. Is There A. And not not to. You know put you on the spot this. Is there a a place for this sort of larger societal? Sort of civil rights version of this that fits into your work or an application or your work at some point I mean I realize you're literally still getting your your era, your degree here. The point is we need you Yeah I'm just curious like in in the way the world is changing and how information is so much more powerful and also available so that we are starting to. No more of these things. No. you know how the system is designed and how it's punishing certain people. I'm just curious if if that's you know you see that play a role at any point. Yeah. So right now I I don't really know too many like environmental justice related groups focused on like the plastic issue at hand I know one of the projects that I'm currently working on which is. Not Necessarily, a part of my dissertation is studying communities of Color, close the Durham and try to understand what they're well-water is like in comparison, the municipal water fact that it was almost like gerrymandering way that their pipes were drawn around this black. Not Giving access to a municipal water services, and so I do the chemistry of water and I kinda do what's called a non target analysis. Which is chemical forensic science to try and identify compounds that might be associated to their septic tanks or to whatever they spray on their lawns could end up in their wells. and. So that's kind of like me like I wanted to do something for my community while I still have this you know these tools that I'm learning in my PhD and so it was it still fit in line with. The skills I wanted to grow a person in a way to try and you know help understand what's going on in communities of color. I. Mean it seems like a great starting place right? It's just like there's such a lack of there's either. So. Much such a substantial overpowering amount of disinformation or misinformation. That is extended to these people or there's just been a lack of information extended to them and and so they go on whatever you know Pepsi's marketing tells them about the bottled water or whatever you know. Some uninformed county. Official tells them about building there. Well, that'll be great. You know you've got your own water this in this meanwhile, it's not regulated in any way they have. No, you have no idea what's in there and it's frustrating and then there's always issues. Water quantity is they if they're wealth breaks, they do not have to go to the municipal water drive. With a plastic tank, fill up their water You know they're transported back and it sits in this plastic tank in the sun in the environment forming micro-plastics in releasing all kinds of chemicals. But it's but sending water, but it's now in a plastic car boy, the son. Sad. Naik. All we can do is take action and try to help route right as this fight the good fight here. So yeah, and so yeah, as we start to look at that or towards action steps I wanNA. Know what we've. We've like just started banning plastic bags right and plastic straws and and micro beads in cosmetics, etc.. I like that just the tip of the iceberg. Are these things good and helpful or I think that single use plastic is what makes up the majority of Like improperly disposed waste in things like our ocean. So I think a plastic bag bans are a great start along with straws but I think we need to think a little bit wider scale. You know really try and limit things like attic packaging like why you know we we're gonNA keep ordering things I'm assuming we're all staying at home with he liked to by step. You Know How do we make sure that that's done in a way that doesn't accumulate unnecessary amounts of plastic and then let's talk about you know for on a virus like we are all wearing masks. Now lease were mass attorney Jesus Christ where. We're we're wearing masks. A lot of people are buying no single use. Medical Mass. Reusable you know you know victor t-shirt actual washable mass, and so that is accumulating massive amounts of. Debris, in you know mass in Nahr Environment in Orlando bills in I. Think in article just released said there's like almost as many mass in the ocean as jellyfish now. So group Yeah I think they were they were trying to predict how many are accumulating because we're just using them all over the world. Now where we're mass producing, our petro companies are now designed to massacres these mass in while they are very important for like our medical workers and like you know who need to have that single use option like the general public should really start considering moving towards like off options or things that are reusable and you know it. It fires me up, and this is why like the answers to these things and and the real Objects of our need to be the the corporations in the institutionalized design of these things because it's I understand why people. I get this all the time. Why in conversations when we're? Trying to encourage people how to live a cleaner life for themselves and first society when you're just like up but don't actually drink that water because that's plastic but don't actually build well the eventually they just go like, well, how do I fuck and win Where's fucking win and the problem with that is like, yes, people definitely need to make better choices. and better choices can improve the health of yourself and your family and your locality and your water and your society for sure. And they can also spur a movement, for example, in twenty twenty when we've got social media and things like that, right they're not just You know you're not just shouting into the wind as much as we can, but the real movement is going to be. On this institutionalized front whether it's with climate or clean energy or clean water or whatever it might be right but I get why? It's a complicated like when you keep taking a step back I, think about coal, for example, right industrialized countries as we call them now have spent. Hundred Years Since peaky blinders developing an industrializing and becoming rich relatively rich compared to the rest of the world on the back of easy coal and then for the last fifty years easy plastic right meanwhile. We desperately need to ban both of those things and so the countries that are further behind probably because they were colonized, I on those metrics. least they're being told, sorry, you don't. You don't get us a call and you don't get to use plastic. and. That's Shitty. 'cause we got to but it's also necessary The I guess the difference being if we stopped using coal and plastic right now. Right? For Coal these we've got these these these starter technologies that for sure we shouldn't be relying on, but we should be working on simultaneously these things that can suck emissions out of the air but I guess the problem with plastic is and please please correct me if I'm wrong here. One it never breaks down and to. There's no there's not like a fucking giant magnet you draw along the beach and suck all the plastic right unless that's what you're doing with your flux capacitor. Whatever there's there's like we can't I don't see again please correct me from wrong. There's no way to like actually get rid of this stuff like so we can stop making it. But are we just going to be living with all of this? That's already out there I'm not trying to be Dumi. I just literally just WanNa step fax here. So people understand. Yeah I mean I feel the gloom and doom I I agree with you I think it's going to take larger timescales than we will live to see to actually you know remove. From our environment that was made back in World War, two and I, guess it depends on the plastic type of course as well. But yeah, like I I was thinking about this earlier I was like, how did he make magnet? Doesn't take up organisms or like nutrients out of the ocean micro-plastics. I. I have not heard of anything as of yet. So I guess Rome we could try and do things to remediate our environment but I think the biggest solution right now is to try and out lessen the amount as being released into the environment sure better waste management practices in production. Decreased. And it's like you talked about with the masks. Again. It reminds me of twentieth century and Energy and the arguments that all these these fossil fuel companies are making court now which are just fucking null and void up. There it is. Sorry, mom. which is like they're. They're like, Hey, guys, you used our energy to build society. You're welcome and everyone in the other side of the courtroom is going no, no see we asked for energy. We didn't ask for fossil fuels we asked for energy and there's a different way to do it, and it's the same thing as the masks which is plastic is the easy answer. We need masks very to be very clear. We need masks. You don't have to make him out of plastic just because it's the cheapest easiest option because there is a fucking trade to it and. We need to make that decision now, four months into this thing because everyone seven billion people can be wearing in the next few years and we've gotta find a way and we've got it can't just be like fancy canvas masks assembled in. Los. Angeles. Great as our because nobody can afford them right then needs to be we we have to find other ways to do this and we have to challenge these institutions to do them now so that it doesn't become a bigger problem because again, we can't get rid of the plastic ones out there. Oh. Yeah I think that it's really interesting to see that there's companies. Now Advertising you know the single use bostick as hygienic clean like almost like. To. Get everybody back onto a, you need to buy single use cops in you know everything Kinda like go right back to it because you don't WanNa get this virus. So get things you can throw out so you don't have to interact with them again and it's so easy to think like, oh, that's probably just a coincidence and they're not doing that purpose into ream the strategy documents. Of these companies in the past thirty years or they've even doing the past two years when they're buying all their like greenwashing advertisements of being like, oh, we're spending a million dollars on carbon capture this year in psych motherfucker you made a hundred billion dollars last year. Don't tell me how you're spending a million dollars. It's just literally marketing money. It's insane to drop in the bucket I mean. There's also companies that are now trying to push back at certain bag bands I know in California I. Think it was like pause so that y'all could use plastic bags again during the virus. But yeah, there's there's a lot of the work trying to undo the work being done to limit plastic. We Must Take Action Taken back. To Back Toamasana. Yes. So let's let's talk about action steps that at our our listeners can take to to support you and your mission with their voice, their vote and their dollar. So let's start with with voice. One of our overarching goals is to shine a light on on where we need to go as a people. So what are the big actionable specific actionable questions that we can all be? Asking about our elected representatives to support you in your mission. The. Specific actionable things that again asked representatives would be, what are your waste management strategies in your city your state Like how are these Leonard to change with the ever increasing bombastic in our world? along with you know not everybody has recycling. That's that's kind of like a crazy thing to me my last apartment. Did, not really have as many recycling options in so. I think trying to at least get that running in making sure that all plastic is getting recycled because that's a whole nother bag of discussion that somebody great should come talk to you about but. Just working to just fix our waste management practices of lasted first, and then putting more pressure on corporations to really think about a circular economy with their products like I know that I think Coca Cola is trying to buy back their bottles. Of to reuse them. So just trying to encourage rations to consider like once you put this product out into the universe, how do you get that back in continue to reuse it in innovative ways that we're not you know ramping up production over and over again so that kind of pressure of from representatives in from government. To, take those steps I think is going to be a very important as it's not gonNa just take us in our dollar. It's GonNa. Think. Yeah. Policy in place to try and limit single use plastic and create circular economies with plastic. Of It. and then what about what can I listened to do with their their money besides you know supporting candidates locally or or on the federal level? Are there specific places that we can be donating places that are really fighting these these fights? Yeah. So there's a couple. There's attic ocean collective the one right now since July this plastic free. July. Is a plastic free foundation with the goal of reading a world free fastest ways you can donate on their website, which is plastic free July Dot Org. You can also take their peski plastic quiz out, which is why did yesterday and it kind of shows you like, what are you currently doing to mitigate waste? What are the things that you know you should consider or may not be as possible for you just because of your economic situation or was accessible to you So I, think that org is a a really interesting one in there. They're not just focused on just July. They're they're trying to just start movement starting today this month forward Hadley do we you know as as a group of people try and limit? Plastic Glad to hear that it's not just July now now. Now. That's really awesome. Okay. We'll. We'll We can put links to those in our in our show notes. And then and then what about like what what are things? We could do just on a personal level you know with At an Washington drying or clothes or air purifiers or? Just any other maybe maybe things that the average person wouldn't think about that they can do to help. And sorry and I just WanNa be again clear there and like we are with our climate stuff, which is like The onus is not on the person to solve this problem that is on. Our elected officials and industry but. Like you said you know in the research is beginning to show these things do affect your air in your water in your bloodstream. So there are actions we all should be taking just to make ourselves and our families healthier again, if we're socio economically able to do that so. Again precede yeah I absolutely agree I. Think the pressure should be worn corporations than than humans but things like buying in bulk like going to the Wholesale Club in getting both flower or dry beans and fruit those can be helpful using reusable water bottle or Mug. Now in our current days days point to a coffee shop at the reasonable Magi, is not going to be very feasible by You know there are still like water refilling stations or water bottles, and those are still labeled as safe to do so now. Getting things bulk tea leaves. So we were just talking about t before this. was going to come back to this. We're GONNA we're back to it. So you're you're you liked drink tea I love drinking tea You GotTa think about what you're D. bag is meet at us. So a lot of them are actually made out of plastic And you throw that into a hot cup of water, you're likely to release billions of micro plastic particles into your drink. I learned about this about a year ago I can like I was big t drinker in the idea that these things were plastic I I was horrified like you like you said, you're putting into hot water you're just doing the thing to yourself is that is that is the average teabag. That's thing that sort of looks like it's I dunno I wouldn't think plastic right away but as pasta. No. I think of those fancy premium ones. You know like look like a cloth bag. Yeah. Cost extra The fancy ones are typically what I, what I think of with those plastic teabags in like even with coffee if you have a cord in your happen the pot in into, get your coffee like that's a single use plastic. Yeah. Yeah. Those are bad. Yeah. You apparently at a replaceable one, apparently the knicks, Bresso ones are recyclable least I send them back. I really would love to have someone from that company on the show to explain to me how those are recyclable and there and and all the Caribbeans or not. because. It does seem like quite the nightmare these things. There's so many you know everything is classic makes things easy but. They're not that easy at the end of the day. but very tricky actually. Oh Yeah. For things like clothes I would think about trying to buy things are we have cotton in them or linens? It's warm outside right now or even just buying secondhand like if you try and put clothes that were you know originally Faucet back into circulation they're not getting thrown away earlier. That's GonNa definitely help as far as the idea of fast fashion. We're continually buying things for wear and then letting them accumulate and then get tossed when we're done with. In even Ooh microwaving plastic. So Yeah. We're going back into the office with are reasonable lunchbox. You don't want to own a microwave you're. Much. I recommend it as just heat and whatever substances our president they're absorbing those chemicals into your food. and. What about in the bathroom? Oh, let's talk about what wipes move talk about what wipes yeah. Yes. Let's get into the special time in the bathroom. So. I was talking about because I'm an environmental engineer. So do we were not, which is weird. Contagious lessons for us. Yes. So imagine you know using your wet wipe most an flushable or non flushable tend to have some form of week, which is like call the polyethylene tariff In settled, those will end up. Being. Flushed down the drain accumulate in our sewers and sometimes called blockages. They, released all kinds of micro plastic fibers into our water, and then if they're cleaned out with our poop, you never know what happens to your food when you're done like it will be removed as sludge and then land applied later So lovely fertilizer. But yeah, those contained thousands of micro-plastics, fibers that end up in our agricultural environments and can possibly get uptaken into our food like our vegetables and fruits. So think about whether you really need to use a flushable or non flushable, white and even consider looking into the days I haven't tried one yet but that's an option Ville change fucking life is what they are. I got one like five years ago they are D- light people. Oh my could the dino Duly noted, he's voted for it. It's a I have got whatever the wire cutter one as. I find out what it has a wire cutters. Great. So dangerous that Todo washed let. You don't wire cutter Ono. Cutter. Wire cutters like consumer reports except they just say like this is the best one. Get this one it's been around for like five years. It's fantastic and then they'll write two thousand words about like why it's the best one but It's great. Not Her bag and that's exactly what I need. I need fully verified that something is is exactly what I need, right? Exactly. Yeah. People won't be a lot of money anyway. So well, that's really really Helpful I really appreciate again to SORTA summarize it sounds like checkout things like plastic free July talk to your representatives and and make a stink with industry about circular economies. Check out things like like you said, coca trying to bring back their bottles find out about chemical plants in your locality. Check your water quote, check your water quality. There's there's some great sources to do this. We'll put him in the show notes whether your on city water or one of the small percentage of Americans on private water or you have a well which again like no one is checking your well-water but you is there a way like for people with wellwater can they bring them to a scientists such as yourself to get their quality check? How does that work? I do believe there are research centers that are taking water samples but I I don't actually know you have to pay for them or not. That's only okay issue. Is How expensive acting. I can send you some links. If I see something there might be in my lab that does that okay, we'll. But something interesting we could we could figure out let's Let's chat and then otherwise It seems like you know buy in bulk don't buy things in in don't buy a set of fifty seaweed things that have fifty different packages try not use the correct things by secondhand clothes and you can even if it's plastic. Pass it on again participate as where you can an in a circular economy and pleased up microwaving plastic and using plastic bags does that start to cover it? Oh Yeah. Absolutely as perfect. Awesome. Perfect. Wow. Well, done Quinn. I did nothing literally just said what she said what she said Yeah I did know that this. And I neither my qualified to do any of it Amari. We're getting close to time here. So we want to get you out of here but we a last few questions that we ask everybody if you have two more minutes absolutely. Immoral round it's still not a lightning round. WE'RE GONNA change name one day. Thanks Brian, got it Amari when was the first time in your life when you realize the power of change the power to do something meaningful gosh it almost feels like right now. I. Hope you don't mean literally today on this podcast. There's GonNa. Now. I like it feels like. One of the moments has made an impact on the is is was, may when I decided to create youtube channel to try and educate people on chemicals in plastics and in our consumer products in teach people about higher education in the opportunities for themselves. So I you know. Corona life crisis get a cat inside starting YouTube Channel But you know I told people like this is what I WANNA do. I WanNa be a science communicator. I want to tell people to think a little bit more about the choices that were making and so my first video I think came out may nineteen and then the one about the ten facts about micro-plastics may twenty eight that one ended up blowing up to like over a couple of thousand us so that that moment of wow, it's not just my mom watching this video people are actually curious about micro-plastics and want to continue to talk about it like on this podcast. Was was eye opener for me Antonsson. Yeah it was it was crazy in I. Think also the change in the double pandemic that we're dealing with the fact that you know least Retali- is here especially with the black community. I think the black lives matter movement kind of amplified that black voices are you know they need to be given voice in shown that we are diverse group of people an opportunity to create change and so the fact that it kind of coincided around a similar time line was really empowering for me. That's awesome Will we thank you for putting all that out there on top of all of the research and work you're doing for your own? Education and professional life. Amari who is someone in your life that has positively impacted your work in the past six months. If it's not my mom. WOULD HAVE TO BE MY FIANCE So he has especially because I consider this channel like scientific communication another job my own form of work. But I think he singlehandedly really encouraged me in continue to you know Whitney towards doing what I love what I'm passionate about. So not only is it his birthday today but This is coming after his birthday but happy birthday guests happy birthday. Dimitri. So you can tell us what's the plan? What are you doing? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I'm about to barbecue but he's GonNa as he's from Kansas. City some. Argue But yeah, we're GONNA, get barbecue in a cake inches enjoyer joyous day. How much? Pandemic to get them in bar I mean come on. Oh Yeah it's going to be a day. That's awesome. Why are you spending time with us? All right. Hold on we gotta get her out of here chases. Be here right now. Well, thank you dimitrios that we said his name is Dimitrius. Thank you. Dimitrius brand bring home. She's so much to do. Let's go bring it home. Now. Of course, we love this question. What do you do when you feel overwhelmed? What's Your Self Care? What is your self care? So. Free Covet it would be going to the gym. Current right now is a journaling To do list has I'm a Weirdo. I. Need to compartmentalize my life. and then Bass in walking my cat outside. Brian could have a whole other podcast I walking your you love cats. Over here big cat guy. We can walk cats together. It's like love every time. Great. Incredible. And then. If, you could send one book to Donald. Trump. What would it be? We have a list of recommendations from past guests on on bookshop. What would you add to that list? I'm not sure if this was already on there, but I would say emotional intelligence two point. Oh By. Ravis bradberry. So that book teaches people self awareness self management social awareness, and relationship management. It's weird that you think that's applicable in needed. Yeah You know IQ typically can't be adjusted too much. But Marshall Intelligence is a place of both for anybody I really appreciate that book by. The world be different if we had a little bit more empathy in our leaders and. Yeah. So I hope we don't want our president to fail. We don't want our country. No, we want to do better and save our world. So a little bit of empathy is going to be important in that room. I love that we will check it out and we were added to the list and listeners. You can find that link in our show notes used to be on. Amazon. But we've moved onto bookshop because it's fantastic and that's it. Bookshop dot org slash shop slash important not important. There's something what have we got on there's like ninety books on there now it's pretty great. awesome amaury, where can our listeners follow you on the Internet? Yeah. So my youtube channel is emery walker spelled M. A. R. I. W. A. L. K. E. R.. And then I'm usually on twitter and instagram under Calamari ninety three. So C. A., L. I. M.. A. R. I. Ninety Three. That's it. Awesome. Do you enjoy eating Calamar? I do yeah. I should be guilty maybe not I don't know I like it. Every once in a while when when when you need us good self-care day exactly bubble bath Calamari. Chat of us. You know. Mari thank you for your time. Today on Dimitrius is birthday holy cow. And for all that, you do to to educate yourself educate others to to to apply for your first force of. A curiosity clearly and personality and knowledge and skills to the professional world and society I. Think we're all. I'm already lucky and going to be very lucky to have you as part of this team trying to make the world a little bit of a better place So thank you and thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. Thank you for having me. Happy to do it. All right. Have a great rest of your day and enjoy the cake enjoy the cake. Wait what kind of what what kind of cake is he? What kind of guys you for cake Cake, chocolate ice cream cake strong. WHAT'S THE ICING? How is? How it's it's. Better, Graham. Right, and they can all the right decisions. Maury. It's GONNA be Great. All right. Have a great day and we will talk to you soon. Take care stay. Cool. Am I don't you so much. By. Thanks to our incredible guest today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or fucking toll walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp. So Weird. Also on facebook and Instagram at important, not important interest in tumbler the same thing. So check us out, follow US share us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this, and if you're really fucking awesome rate on apple podcasts, keep lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show from today right in your little podcast player and at our website. Important. NOT IMPORTANT DOT com. Thanks to the very awesome Tim blamed for our jam music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day. Thanks guys.

Brian Calvert Kennedy America engineer Quinn Berkeley basketball attorney Duke University Maury Walker twitter official Stanford youtube California Maury Emmett. Environmental Engineering Depa United States Stanford
#84: How is Climate Change (Already) Affecting Immigration to the USA?

Important, Not Important

28:58 min | 8 months ago

#84: How is Climate Change (Already) Affecting Immigration to the USA?

"Welcome to important not important. My name is Emmett. And I'm Brian Calvert Kennedy and this is the podcast where we tried to bend the mother fucking Arca history towards a more livable planet for you for me. An everyone else and we've been off for a while but we're back and we can't wait to bring you some truly fantastic conversations but I Hey have you ever wanted to listen to our show but without ads Yep Do you like fun talks. I mean some people like those more different discussion do love our newsletter book we. Brian would just read it to you instead in like five minutes or so unsure. Would you like a discount on some of our awesome merchandise at our store? I mean those all sound great and if any of them sound interesting to you then. Today's your day because we're launching our premium feeding all. Those things are on it. That's right for just five dollars a month or forty nine nine nine year. Sorry that's forty nine nine thousand nine year which is a seventeen percent discount on the monthly. Plan you get all that. Shit Ad Free. Save the world. Conversations Fun talks are newsletter in digital print and audio and a discount on our t shirts and coffee. Mugs hoodies stickers. All that stuff and for the this is very exciting. For the very first time our shit give emerges available for purchase so many people bought it. The second I did that. I love the social. Yeah I mean it went crazy. Superfund Look if you value our work and you want to invest in the future of it and help us to grow and make change and stir shit up please right now go to important not important dot com slash shit giver and join up under the show. All right Today as always we're going to dive into a specific question affecting everyone on the planet right now can kill us or make the future a hell of a lot cooler for everyone wherein that's right. Our guests are scientists. Doctors Engineers politicians astronauts candidates for office even Reverend and we worked together towards action steps. Our listeners can take with their voice their vote and their dollar and this is your friendly reminder that you can send questions thoughts and feedback to us on twitter at important not impact hasn't changed or email us at fun talk at important not important dot COM. Your characters you can also join. The tens of thousands of other really smart people subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at important that abortion dot com. That's right And this week's episode is our first one back. We are digging into immigration Because it turns out that many of the immigrants coming to America lately have tried to dig into the dirt at home but the soil is increasingly parched interesting and our guest Jessica Cisneros from South Texas and nobody knows. He's emigrants stories better than she does. And she's just out there. Khanna change lies. Yeah very excited to talk to this. Young Woman so Let's go back to our guest. Today is Jessica he's narrows and Together. We're GONNA ask. How is climate change already affecting immigration to America Jessica? Welcome thank you all so much for having me absolutely just a real quick Tell us who you are and what you do. Yeah so my name is Jessica snuggles. I am an immigration human rights attorney but I currently stop taking cases because I am running for Congress so I'm running to represent the twenty eighth district of Texas down here in South Texas. It's a lot of ground to cover runs from San Antonio Texas which is my hometown on the road and the river and then down to the valley admission so I've been running We've launched back in June and we are now a couple of weeks away from Election Day election days March third here in Texas. And just so everyone's clear. A wind is early. Voting began for your district it starts in February eighteen awesome. Okay well I think this episode Is either going to. It's going to drop it before that for sure. So get on at people if you can do and and remind everyone how voter registration works down there if you could. Yes so the so in order to vote for this election. Registration date already passed. So if you want to vote for election you have to register thirty days before the election. So the deadline for this was February third so on Monday and we were crazy out there and make sure we're registering as many people as possible so they wouldn't miss the deadline awesome will listen folks You might be registered and not know it but check and find out and then go do it so we can. We can help Jessica Chain World here Jessica. I know you're tight on time today. Which is Great? It'd be really weird if you were running for such an important office and be like. Yeah no I got plenty of time. But just a quick reminder to everyone our goals to provide some quick context for the question at hand and then we're going to dig into some action oriented questions They get to the heart of why we should give about a give a shit about it and what everyone can out there can can do about it. Jessica we do like to start with one important question to kind of set the tone for our conversation today instead of saying Jessica tell us your whole life story as amazing as I'm sure that is we like to ask Jessica. Why are you vital to the survival of the species? Wow well I mean I think especially in the context of this race right yes. It's a primary not running in a Democratic primary but there could not be starker contrast between Me and my opponent my opponent Henry. Glad when we're talking about bad mental issues. The fact that we're dealing with the climate crisis. He's really on the wrong side of of those issues. He's one of the top congressional recipients from the oil and gas industry. And that's one of the reasons why you know. Unfortunately he decides to vote to roll back environmental regulations including the Clean Water Act in Allowing you know fracking to continue and you know just hurting our environment in general all of this issues are really personal. I mean to everybody but we also have our own stories down here in South Texas so even a few months ago we had our water boil notice so we literally could not drink are water for two weeks to. It wasn't safe for us to drink. And you're talking about Laredo. Which is more than a quarter of a million people? It's not a small town And the fact that we didn't have access to clean water right in this day and age and when you tell people like well you know it's because we don't have the right infrastructure for this. We're not taking care of our trio down the river and a lot of it has to do with the leadership that we have People get it right and For me you know. Be Running in making sure that we have champions out there. That are actually gonNA stand up to the fossil. Fuel lobby is important. Because we all know what's at stake in not just remind generation generation is gonNA come right after for sure assuming there will be more Not you'll be great if we could make it so that would happen Well that's awesome and as far as I understand again so everyone gets it. This is a primary. You're running in but it's but it's hugely important because your opponent the incumbent has has there's a Democrat that is it sounds. Insane has voted with trump's seventy percent of the time is that correct. That's right in. The Congress voted seventy percent of the time he's known to fundraising endorse tea. Party Republicans in Competitive Congressional races in the state he used to be Rick. Perry's appointee to Texas Secretary of State position which is not exactly if you Google the Guy I opponent is Henry Coy at checkout Google images. You'll see a picture of George W Bush cradling his face at the state of the Union. So yeah you should. Y'All WANNA check them out. We will definitely put that picture in the show notes so that people can print it out and put on a dartboard all right again. I know you're tight on time. Here I feel like I could talk to you all day and maybe after you win. We'll come back and have a longer conversation but I know that you I mean. Obviously it's you know it's tough to focus on one thing at a time because the world is trying to tear itself apart but immigration is such a big thing in America and around the world right now and it's only going to get bigger and I know it's really specific down there obviously and and for you so just some quick context for folks real quick just reading from the Guardian recently There was a ruling Said is unlawful for governments to return people to countries where their lives might be threatened by the climate crisis which was a new ruling that the U. Human Rights Committee The UN found and says the judgement. Which is the first of its kind represents illegal tipping point of sorts and a moment that opens the doorway to future protection claims for people whose lives and wellbeing have been threatened due to global heating. And it's obviously more complicated than that and will link to the article in the show notes but basically world governments including US despite what they tried to do. We're still one of those While they're not bound to that ruling They do seem to be now on notice that they could be in deep shit when it comes to human rights violations if they don't get working on climate change and they try to return people to their home countries for those reasons so there's more to it but speaking specifically about about your area and and I believe your parents Came from Mexico. Is that correct? Yes okay so From the Center for American progress says persistent drought fluctuating temperatures and unpredictable rainfall reduced crop yields throughout the Northern Triangle and forever. And who's not aware that that's a region that comprises Salvador Honduras Guatemala challenging livelihood. So many people down there are sustenance farmers and access to food in agriculturally dependent communities. Obviously the media is not telling the full story of why people are want to come here so badly And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about what you've seen in your job and while you're running and and the reality on the ground quite literally for for so many of these folks yeah it seems like the Environment and immigration You know are very interrelated. I think you see that especially here on the border and You know all these issues are just Especially under the trump administration. I feel like immigration and environmental issues seems to be seemed to be on the attack. The front lines. You know every single week like there's always new robot there's always a change of law But in the work that I've been doing so I've been doing immigrant's rights work since twenty twelve In the last couple of years has been specifically helping people that are facing the removal proceedings while they're detained in the detention centers. And it's been amazing to see the large group of people that come here for. Well they'll tell you economic reasons right. There's like well you know I I just couldn't I I had to provide for my family. I did what it had to do to be able to make sure that they had what they needed. And then you start diving into it a little bit and be like okay. So what were you working in like? What were you doing? A lot of people worked in the fields and because it's a very big agricultural community down there and and they started talking about the effects of climate change they don't label it like that necessarily but they'll start talking about how you know the symptoms start talking about the effects that you know what once used to be fruitful. Land Wasn't anymore and that's why you know they couldn't subsist anymore. They couldn't live off the land anymore and they had to find a way to survive a lot of them decided to come to United States to be able to provide for their families and as the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Like I. I understand that My parents came here because my sister actually needed urgent medical procedure. That no doctor. Mexico wanted to perform because it was very high risk and obviously my parents made that decision because they wanted to make sure that their daughter was okay. And you know even though this was a medical issue. I can still see it in other families that had to come here because they wanted to make sure their children were okay too right so for a lot of folks you know unfortunately because the asylum laws are so strict on the aren't able to qualify for asylum because being a climate refugee is in doesn't exactly fit the definition but there's many people that have been living here for many years that have other forms of relief even though they came to the United States for for those reasons one of the interesting things. Though in my line of work I've been doing research into asylum. Law Is that when the law was proposed in the United States back in nineteen eighty. Was that in if you actually look at the legislative history and the conversations that were happening in the debates but one of the first drafts of the law actually had had imagined the idea of climate refugees which is very interesting and a lot of people. Don't talk about it later on it. Was you know scrapped? But the fact that people were thinking about it back then I think it just shows that we've known that the climate crisis has been happening for some time And it's finally great to see it at the forefront of people's minds because it really is a threat to to all of us. Well guys it's Quinn. If you're listening to this you obviously like podcasts. And you probably like music to on spotify you can listen to all of that in one place for free. You don't even need a premium account on spotify. You can follow your favorite podcasts. So you never miss an episode. You can download episodes to listen to offline wherever you might be and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends via spotify's integration with social platforms like instagram. Spotify has a huge catalog of podcasts. On every topic including the one. You're listening to right now. You can just search for important not important on the spotify APP or browse podcasts. In the library tap very convenient and of course you can follow us so you never miss an episode of important not important Spotify is the world's leading music streaming service. And now it can be your go to for podcasts. To just just a you said even doing immigration work since Twelve let's go back to twenty twelve uh-huh announced Wednesday that how just question. How old are you? I'm twenty six so I've been doing work around. Imigrants was probably nineteen I was growing in Interning and nonprofits Doing a lot of advocacy work around Dhaka. Because that's when twenty twelve Daca was announced by President Obama. That's when I start first. Started hearing about detention centers. And you know the human rights abuses. That happened in there. And you know trying to advocate around the closure of that which unfortunately is still fight that we're facing to this day Especially when you're talking about in the context of family detention I mean you. You don't WanNa know what I was doing when I was nineteen. You don't know what you were doing. I don't even remember. Yeah let me sexy. I mean that's the reason I'm asking is just because it's I mean it's incredible. It's not and you know how how do you think how does your age You know and the work that your generation is doing define help. Define your candidacy. Well I guess it's the way my age is playing out right now. It doesn't play out the way that people expected to where people think that people in my district might be cautious about a twenty six year old woman in a running for Congress. It's actually to our benefit. Because they're like yeah. We need fresh new ideas. It's great that you know. The younger generation is stepping up and trying to make change and people find it incredibly inspiring and I think for me. The best thing is to see other young people rally behind This campaign because they know it's not just rallying around me as a person it's rallying around the issues that are important to us whether it be addressing the climate crisis whether it be addressing immigration especially in the context of the wall which is already being built in areas of our district having access to healthcare right basic things that that we feel are people deserve in that we deserve clobber trinity to have a voice in Congress to fight for those things. It's awesome. I mean it's inspiring. We work a lot with sunrise and and folks like that and and is just. It's hilarious and amazing to feel like we're not just like the oldest people in the room by by a long shot from it is just so inspiring to do literally just say like how can we help. What can we do? You guys should run everything at this point. I think. That's that's the idea right. Brian yes over everybody out of here go go ahead. I was GONNA say like one of the best things that I've seen as part of this campaign is even Seeing even younger people that aren't still able to boats like they're sixteen seventeen years old fifteen year olds you know being in wanting to be involved with the campaign I think that's amazing. And if you actually take a second to engage with these you know younger folks like they blow your mind with how much they know and That they really want to make a change as well and I think at this point. We know that age isn't doesn't mean that our opinions are valid. I think it's you know it's our experiences and it's pretty great to see them have an active role in this campaign as well and if anything I mean again like your opinion is is more valid like just by necessity of the fact that everyone dies and you guys are going to inherit this world for a much longer period of time relative to to the eighty year old guys. Who Don't know what facebook does who are making all the decisions so going back to the folks that are coming here you know. W- We talk a lot about how we're GONNA feed ten billion people in a few years and how in some respects. We already have enough food. But we wasted or it's not distributed. Well but you know when I think of the raging heat and the unpredictable monsoons in India or like we just talked about the glaring and and growing lack of food security in the northern triangle. In your parents home country of Mexico I think like it's so much more complicated than that. Can we just feed everybody but on the other hand it's simple right and it's so similar everywhere. People need to know where their next meal's going to come from and that's extra important if you're a farmer and a substance farmer and so I just want to go with that because I want to be crystal clear for our listeners. Who get it you know. They're progressive action minded folks but it seems like these folks that you've worked with don't have another choice but to come here is. Is that right? Yeah I mean a lot of these people that I got to work with. They tell me they're like I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to write like people. It's really hard to just get up and move somewhere. Where especially if you don't have family members or friends or just a support network right and it's Garry changes Gary and a lot of the people that I talked to Mike. Just don't tell me like I really would rather be at home but I just can't be there because there's just no way that I can provide for my family or there's just no way for us to survive. I mean just like you said leaving a support network leaving behind traditions in places and people that you've grown up within your parents and grandparents You don't do that Will Willy Nilly No So scary right. The Texas you know has just a hell of walk on 'em can understand from yeah You know from the results of of Hurricane Harvey And you know exponential wind-power growth to possibly flipping the State House blue What what is your state doing to prepare for? I guess the this new world you know what what is a put a blue Texas mean to you for able to pull that off. Yeah I mean there's so much work that's being done by activists and organizers everywhere. You know trying to turn Texas blue. I mean what this campaign were trying to focus in south on South Texas because as you all know my race just down to the primary and we WANNA make sure that we're doing our part in being a team player for March member To Turn Texas blue and make sure that we increase voter turnout in south Texas because that would really make a difference after this like we really hope to address the issues that people are concerned about. I mean obviously healthcare is a big one immigration is a big one and the environment also right and I just think there's so many things to go after I think one of I mean my personal when people ask me like what my number one issue is. It really is getting the money out of politics because they think if we're able to address that then it's easier to address the whole other host of issues That really need to be addressed her knee. I really WANNA see an investment in my community because I feel like we've been neglected for far too long from when I was a young girl. You know being raised here in Laredo There's a thirty percent poverty rate in that hasn't changed there's areas in my community where there's no paved roads were. There's no running water Where there's a basic lack of infrastructure where it's really hard to break the poverty cycle and there's literally a quarter of the people in our district are uninsured and another quarter you know are having to depend on nutritional assistance and other kinds of benefits. 'cause we are below the poverty line so there's many things it's not that we're not hardworking people because if you actually look at the unemployment rate is below the national average but people have to work through three jobs just to make ends meet. And that's what I saw having to. You know growing up here like my parents had to do that and I saw my neighbor's. Haven't you do that in struggling to get by when we're able when we when we do have a blue taxes like I'm GONNA be fighting and advocating for investment in community communities like mine so that we can have a diversity of jobs right where people don't feel like they have to leave to other areas in Texas and instead they can stay here with their families finally had the things that we we deserve seems pretty special? I think that's a great wonderful. Why would it be the other way wants something different So our goal is to provide specific action steps that our listeners can take to to support your mission With their with their voice and their vote and their dollar. So let's quickly do that. You can get out of here Lightning round style. One question loves them yet. So one one super important question. How can our listeners support you in these last couple of weeks so y'all can support us by volunteering and donating if he goes Jessica For CONGRESS DOT COM. You can find volunteer link there. You can also find our donate link there We've been super successful in being able to fundraise for this campaign and it's all been done through grassroots efforts so Every dollar counts especially heading into March third. Because it's really gonNA come down to whether we're able to reach enough voters in time and your donations make that possible so we really encourage y'all to help us with that and also bankers especially beer. Bilingual is district is seventy seven percent ladder next and it's also sixty five percent of people speak Spanish here So if you speak some Spanish unwanted volunteer police signed up okay awesome. That's not me because I I am the worst language person that's ever existed. It seems crazy that we don't speak Spanish. Very frustrating. Very frustrating children can speak it so much better than they're smarter than I am. Jessica this is fantastic. We can't thank you enough for your time today. I I truly would love to have you back on after you win a little more time in your life sweetie dig into things one last question for you get. Outta here just go. When was the first time in your life when you realized you had the power of change or the power to do something meaningful? I was eight years old Anna non-entry and that's when I decided I wanted to be an attorney to advocate for people that look like me and my family and my neighbors which at eight first of all. That's a cheese what happened. How come what happened? What was the Hina? I just noticed that there is a lack of advocacy of people. That looked like me. Area empower like spaces where you know decisions were made. I think so. My elementary school was right on the road and the river. And sometimes I would see families coming into the United States And I think it was then when I was outside like playing On the playground that I kind of realized that my family didn't look any different than the families that were coming in and that I could tell that they were scared right that something was happening and I just didn't know what it was but it felt wrong but I knew that it had something to do with the government that we're learning about the laws that we're learning about know in in basic social studies but it was at that time that I was like I wanna be an attorney so I can fight for those families because again I I look just mine. That's pretty incredible and I don't say this unjust but what an attorney was. I can't remember like my eighth birthday parties. Yeah I feel like I was probably one of those kids that would argue about everything and make sure that people knew what my pin was. Probably yolks tells me dammit. Fine sure fine well shit. That's that's really special and south. Texas is very lucky to have you just got and I. I hope we can. We can help here in these last couple of weeks and and and push it over the line besides just Defeating this this scumbag. I I I think the world would be a better place with with human office and men. I'm not sure if we deserve you but we'll take it so thank you for for deciding to be an attorney at age eight. Thank you for making the time today and for running and yeah Please just keep kicking ass out there anything else. Any last thing you WANNA say for your meeting starts in thirty seconds. I'm about to run out to go make it but No thank you so much for the opportunity to be on your podcast. We're really happy that we can count with your support and everybody listening. Please tune in and make sure that you know if we can counter support would be super grateful for down here in South Texas Absolately here Jessica. Thank you so much. Thanks to her incredible guests today and thanks to all of you for tuning in. We hope this episode has made your commute or awesome workout or dishwashing or Fucking Dole. Walking late at night that much more pleasant as a reminder please subscribe to our free email newsletter at important not important dot com. It is all the news most vital to our survival as a species and you can follow us all over the Internet. You can find us on twitter at important not imp so weird also on facebook and Instagram. At important not important. Pinterest and Tumbler the same thing so check us out. Follow US SHARE. Us like us. You know the deal and please subscribe to our show wherever you listen to things like this. And if you're really fucking awesome rate us on apple podcasts. Keep the lights on. Thanks please and you can find the show notes from today right in your little podcast player and at our website important not important dot com. Thanks to the very awesome. Tim blamed for our jam. Music to all of you for listening and finally most importantly to our moms for making us have a great day thanks guys.

America Jessica US Texas Congress spotify attorney South Texas Mexico Brian Calvert Kennedy twitter Texas facebook Laredo America South Texas Henry Coy Northern Triangle Emmett
Fun Talk: She Will Literally Put Our Child in the Fireplace to Go Make a Cocktail

Important, Not Important

39:05 min | 1 year ago

Fun Talk: She Will Literally Put Our Child in the Fireplace to Go Make a Cocktail

"Markham to fun talk. That isn't important not important. My name is clemen just fucking say welcomed of what's with all that important unimportant, so convoluted, I know it is I notice, and you know, that doesn't Joe with my OCD. Whatever man tell people tell them what your name is what I'm Brian. I'm Brian Calvert. Kennedy grace. All right. This is going. Great everybody. Start. Welcome back for your Friday, listening pleasure. This is going to really set you off for the weekend. Oh, you do a good place. Speaking of the good place when I had that flew a few weeks ago. Yeah, I've been meaning to forever. I I'm watching much networks that comes stuff in a while. I watched my buddy lives Meriwether shows and they're fantastic. But got some stuff coming out. Right. She always she. She's incredible. She's never stops. By the mean to watch good place checked a lot of boxes for me. It's like, it's comedy. But it has a bunch of philosophical questions and Christabel like she's mazing. Ted fucking Danson is doing comedy. Thank God, pre mental baby. So I- mainline the whole thing. Oh nice. Few seasons. Episodes are two seasons are on Netflix. Third ones on Hulu. I think something like that. I don't know Washington. Oh, I did the whole thing. Oh why? It's so good. And I think I've watched like four episodes like not a lot. But I it's great. I'm gonna keep going. No. It's it's it's really I like the. Forgot her name on the show. But the one who's like, the assistant, today's assists. God, she's funny match. She's good. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. She's talented us out. It's a it's a good. Oh, that's great. I'm glad you watched it. Yeah. Can't recommend that enough. So if you're if you got flu or some other reason to be in bed, but it's great twenty two minutes each perfect. Sitcom there was I didn't read it. I like to just read the headlines of articles. Is there was a great article probably is predicated on giving perfect context story. Keep going. This is a fun talk. It's different. Sure. And it was titled like why existential comedies are like, you know, the big fucking thing right now. And it mentioned like the good place and forever forever with federal miso. Demayo so good. Yeah. Guy. So good that that Russian doll on Netflix with. Makes me feel like very insecure because I'm like what if my wife feels that way chew. We tell people with the twist is. Oh, so you wait. You didn't watch didn't watch it. But somebody, you know, the whole thing like, oh, I don't need them is. That's my greatest fear wife, waking up and going. What am I doing? No, let's not tell people. Okay. But you should watch it. It's great Russian doll, which I don't like love. But what I do like about it is that like that the groundhog day situation. You just ruined. Yeah. But that's like it's called rush dog at the fuck out. It's pretty obvious. Okay. I'm just saying there's something extra term even if like good place is just good in forever is just good. But like washing died. I don't absolutely love it. But I keep watching it. Because I just just the the premise is so fun, and it makes you go. Like fuck I wish I was that was happening to me sort of like that it's like a deeper level of the sort of big idea comedies and movies and stuff from from the eighties and nineties early two thousands. Whether like what if we had Menges that were nuns, and you're like, okay, do, you know, the sold make it and you're like fuck, you know, but it's like how do you start with this big extension thing right in a good place is like an MP were for. Year's end. There's no spoilers. Yeah. Yeah. You know, she dies. She gets the not called heaven. They called the good place. Remember that I'm very behind. So don't fuck it or anything for me. This is episode one. Okay. Great. I ten minutes got got goods there. And all sudden, she's like, you know, what I don't think I'm supposed to be. And then they're like, yes, you're an accident. And I love that glow. That's crazy. It's just like the tiniest. Little twist becomes these bigger questions of like, why am I not? Why am I not right? Right. And what did you get to be here? What did I do wrong, and I can't fix those things? Can I can I earn it back cetera et cetera. Pretty great either. Pretty great things. I can't take back thrown out. My back. You know, it's wrong. What my wife said to me. It's morning for some perspective as she was the spoon. Feeding me on the couch. Which is you know, she had plenty of time to do. It was right. I'm sure in the forty minutes where we have to blitzkrieg through breakfast and get kids to school is deal with her man child husband is she was like, you know, what you did. Did it doing a good thing? Which is since we last chatted, actually, they'll right, right? I went my oldest. And I went to camp out at the natural history museum in L A, which is says the thing they used to do. They haven't done in a few years, and it was dinosaur themed. So kids ages I think is six to twelve not too old. Not too little show up at like six check in. They do a little show. And then you basically have the museum to the dinosaur level to yourself. So I think the kept it seventy kids or something plus apparent or whatever right dinosaur level in like all the people working there and helping you to yourself until ten forty five at night. Up call which is to them just like fucking mind blowing. It was a cool experience. And to the museums credit natural history museum of L A went went above and beyond to really make these kids feel so in turn around there's like activities like how to make a dinosaur mask or a dinosaur horn-like set up underneath the skeleton dice wherein took out dinosaur bones. My kid was just like holy fuck them touching a terrific lag. And I'm like Jesus Christ. Why are they letting you do that? But it was just it was great. And then you get to the part where you sleep over. And the kids who've market is so sheltered think libraries of dessert and has never stayed up past fifteen bedtime. Ten forty five was out. He'd been running on fumes from like seven o'clock on. Yeah. He's out sleeps whole time in the amazing. We in the African Mabel hall seventy other kids in their parents. I lay down we brought a camping gear usually great for camping except for when camping you're not surrounded by a bunch of adults with like emphysema and just the the coughing sounds like a war like pre medicine coughing in the snoring. There's one guy I woke up, and I wanted to be, sir. You should never go to sleep again because you will die like the snoring. And I was as sleep apnea. Like, I I want wanna be clear not a doctor. However, the things I heard last night at a very bad. I didn't sleep. It. Also felt the back tightening up tried to loosen it up spent the weekend doing that Monday went in warmed up spent forever woman because fucking old man. It's worked for me one rep on the dead left in ice cream, so loud, the whole gym Jesus turned around was like that guy. And then of course, they left me alone to deal with. So advil. It's getting real around here. And you're walking around like a just a slow old, man. I I mean, our coffee shop that we go to before the podcast is like, I don't know a hundred feet away. It's very close. Maybe and it took seven minutes. Nine seven to nine minutes. I actually made you come down because I couldn't carry to coffee the way what you may become down way too fucking early. I come down you didn't even hadn't even ordered. Yeah. But I here's the small talk. I'm living on the edge. And I didn't know if I could keep TIMMY up. So I needed you there. And you didn't you didn't you're super helpful. But you're there wasn't super health care two of the three days. It's just comes of what we talked about an on our part of what we talked about with a tequila which was such a wonderful conversation was this week, which is just saying, and I can't emphasize this enough. Oh, right in your relationship. We are just barreling towards two kids here. The sentence and taught this to me, I think it might have actually been my sister-in-law nice. Who said this to me about my brother-in-law, but just in general the sentence question questions or sentences? Well, anyways, how can I help? How literally if you just build your entire purpose? Your entire guiding star of your long-term relationship, whether you are married or its partner, right whatever the sexual gender situation is doesn't matter. Right. None of it matters. If you start with and begin everything with how can I help you should be fine. That's pretty great advice as opposed to the usual guy shit, which is what I do ninety nine percent of the time. Because it's like it's how we're program, and we're just big dumb animal DNA, which is like you should do this fix. It this way go I'm not actually listening to what you're saying. I stopped after the first thing, and I've been screaming about this is how you. You should fix it. Because it's nightmare. They don't want it. They don't care about it. But ladies gentlemen, start with. How can I help? It took me a little while to figure that out. It takes a while. It was a big problem. No. But it got it just changes everything. How how can I help? How can I help? Because it is is humbling yourself and not just offering the things you can do that ask good advice. It's asking from their perspective. Yep. Instead of saying, hey, can I help carry this? That might not be the most useful thing. Let them volunteer with the thing might say, I'm good or they might say actually could you try the kitchen shocker before a murder them. Right. Sure. No prob all of those things because you recognize the moment with they need. It'll come back. It always comes back. I mean, it hasn't always because the divorce rate America's fifty percent area. It should come back. And things are if things are set up pretty well. Hopefully, hopefully, you chose who your partner is it's going anyways the point is how can I help? It's pretty it's pretty great. So yeah, I dunno it just stuck with me. In the context of the conversation was if you haven't listened to you was was how how designed to reach out to faith based institutions in their communities, and it's not by calling and being like, put solar panels on your church. Yes. Just calling him being like, hey, man. This is my background. And what I do. How can I help? Right. I mean that does seem like clearly like the best way to offer. Yeah. And anyways, I encourage people to to get to give it a shot. Thanks for passing that advice along paying it forward. It makes a difference. Man. I got a question for you real quick is this wetter assure is a sweater shirt. Here's the thing sweatshirt is a shirt inheritance in its name. Right. Absolutely consistent. You can sweat it. But there are. But a sweatshirt on my say most people would say that a sweatshirt and sweater are two different thing. No. I'm just saying I I was moving sort of categorically into like sleeve things that keep you warm. This is. Yeah, I'm talking about this categories, a huge part of this question. Let me turn it around if a sweat can you just hit no sweaters? Not a shirt. What is it? No, no, I assure you could broad obviously, a sweater is an article of clothing, right? We categorize it. We could put it in that big category. But about subcategory does it fit into the subcategory of shirt? What is gonna look up the definition of a garment for the upper body made of cotton or a similar fabric with a collar sleeves and buttons down the front will. That's what that's what it was. When how old is this is a stupid definition? Okay. Hold on the next part shirt like garment made of stretchable material typically having short rove buttons at the neck. What is going on here? Casual sports on all shirts have buttons. What is strange very old? So I guess that definition no in this your sweater buttons. Not using that. That's a stupid definite. Is it is the official one. But yeah, I know, well, I'm looking at that. And that's a sweat shirt or sweater to be honest. I don't know what the difference. Wearing we'll put it in the show. We'll take a picture. We'll put in the show notes because it could be anything. I just remembered as we were talking that. I was having this discussion with my. Sweet sweet girlfriend. And to Sean sweater is not a shirt. I just don't understand how it's not. I realized that it is more specific than shirt. But if we're just breaking it down and putting into it is a shirt, I would turn it around and say and say, well, it's not them. What is it? Right. She said, that's what I said. She said it's a top. Oh, this is the thing. My wife says L to me those are nice bottoms their pants only says that dammit all time those are different top. I mean get like, yes. It's literally going on as you. That's funny. Yeah. It's nice outfit. It's not do you have different bottoms. All right. Well, we got nowhere with that. So thanks now. I can't say fun talk. Bernanke dot com. Assure also, speaking of since this fun talk is devolved into like, no, we have more topics happened when you turn thirty five basically another conversation. I I feel like I only could have had once I turned this age where appreciated like the utility of sweater. Yeah. Don't get to wear those very often here. No, it's been chilly. Did they say cold us winter in LA thirty years? I overheard a man talking on the the the locker room of the gym say he said, I'm from LA. And I've never felt it this call before I think he he would have because there's thirty years unless he was younger than thirty years than he would have. He's think he was probably under thirty years old, okay? On one of those in shape. Young people. He was very in shape. Because one of the guys at the gym will undersize fuck you man. My story about that. When I used to go to your fancy, Jim. So he's talking to. Yeah. Now, I do think about it all the time because you said that, and I think most of the time I think you can literally just tell though, I know for sure hit unlocked everything for me. I felt so much more secure with the effort is putting in. But also just like, oh, of course, of course, of course. Because that that's impossible. You can't do that. Actually. I've tried. Yeah. Steroids, lady, gentlemen, makes everything better. Would also makes everything better is when your girlfriend delivers us her second attempted homemade donuts for the podcast, which she crushed. She crushed. I don't know where this she just loves cooking in cooking, baking, whatever the anything. She just loves making food. Did she like it before you got together? Oh, yeah. Okay. This has this has nothing to do with me. She will cook for anybody. It's it's a it's a her thing. I happened to be benefactor Colonel of that. Which is fantastic. But yes, she the other day. I went she came over, and she just had these donuts, or maybe whatever I then went to harass in the shed these owners, and they were whiskey maple near the beneficiary anyways gonna ficiary. Sorry, whiskey maple doughnut, whiskey maple doughnuts. Tip number one. Yes. Couldn't you make those for ten number three. Now that she's got it. Right. Yeah. And to be on, and she would crush them because she the second attempt was they were like, I don't know lighter and fluffier, and I bet she would use little whisky next time. But they were there's. God there's and this time she wanted to make another batch may said what about chocolate frosted she's into that. Could you make them? Gluten free for me. I think we're kind of asking a lot. Now, you didn't even expire just happen to have one for you. I was never going to it wasn't like a. Here's a doughnut for Quin. You're welcome by the way. And I'm sorry. It wasn't gluten free. I I appreciated it. I'm just asking if she could extend her capabilities a little bit. She was the benefactor beneficiary. Yeah. That's my. That's my fault. I misspoke. Yep. Thank you for the correction. So it's funny. So. Did she like you said she's been doing this for for minute? Pre existing Brian way before you're just you're just on the receiving and you happen to be like the closest available target. Yeah. That lives with her part of the time. But does so we look with this year? This year is is like is the branching out or pivoting to donuts is that because she knows you like sweet so much or is that she just thought I want to figure out donuts. I think maybe it has something to do with it because she knows I'm a little sweet tooth but soda. But so does every every, you know, her roommate's will eat it her friends like it's not just me. I think maybe she just wants. She was like, oh, I haven't done this before I would like to crush those crush them as crush appreciating who still have that spark of life, and I don't have. And I I'm not kidding. I don't think she will. I feel it should be one of those grandma's. Who's just still just turn out like that? It was amazing. Yeah. So I'm curious because again, as we talk about sort of our quarter to midlife crisis topics and how. How can I help thing and being? About these things that we find ourselves doing in long term relationships. And like you gotta get over. I'd say like six months, I mean, there's cutesy shit. If I write everybody like, oh, this is his thing. This is her thing quick note, most of that gets exhausting and his why you want to kill them later. Right. But what the long term things that we do for our significant others that become like are things. Like our thing is something endemic to her right? That you just happen to benefit from a you love food and be you love sweet foods, and that's just like earth thing in your relationship is like she just she makes mazing food. Right. That's great. That's like. But now that's like a tent pole of your relationship. Right. Yeah. That that's like it's gotten to the point where that's a thing, of course, where I'm going to. I'm going to not that I expected, but like I know that she will just I don't even have to think about it. I know that if she's making. Food. Well, first of all, I know that if I go over to her house, she's going to have a meal for me. It's going to be delicious. It would be that. Right. Right. But now she she might as being presumptious. But she might enjoy it a little more knowing it's for you, all I think this is one of the amazing things about cooking. Right. People can be like, oh, well there everyone is their superficial shit. Like, you're the one who does this. You're the one who does this. But cooking there is nothing greater to. I love to cook. And nourish people. It's amazing. Yeah. It's such a cool. I can't like because that is exactly how she feels. I don't know how to that's never been my thing. I mean, what is what is your you guys are over a year end. Right. So what what what have we identified as your things that are like things that she can depend on that are just oh, that's. Yeah. I don't know if we have we have does. I was because I'm having a same feeling. I did when I just like, I don't know the normal ship the normal. Good man shit. I'm pretty good. I'm a good caring, man. I will I know not to sound like an asshole. But please people from Brian. Here's a question. We ask everybody. Why are you vital survival of your relationship? I don't like this question and only talking about myself to to keel, literally said offline no one is ever said in fifty eight episodes now one more thing can I hear some here about Brian. I was so you didn't see a single word about yourself. Not true from the summer, Chicago after I said it that's true. Also what I like to listen. So now think about your things that you bring what is something that could become like a by the way, they can vote plate like my wife just started to two years ago or so two or three years ago as a way of coping with our insane life because of our children and just life to get into making cocktails. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. She so fun. She mentioned it once. This will be fun. We we liked to go to rest like, of course, the cocktail seen like exploded in the RT's Nomex greatest delicious. She gets the weird she'll she'll get like fucking vegetable garden, drink, right? The weirdest bitterest loves all that. But didn't know anything about it was just like this good. I'll have and then at one point you mentioned few Christmases ago fun to take one of those classes. Of course, I was just like, oh, I'm taking this personally. I have to find the best possible thing for her yet to try to find the schools, but she was pregnant twelve times. There's no point of driving downtown to the right, right? School twenty people found a good friend looking to you Matt poli of heirloom LA was on your cupcakes. Oh nice enough. They're both. It's the greatest food and just the greatest humans on on a tier one foreshore of cool. Good. Anyway, he was like, no, I got a guy who used to work for us as a bartender is the nicest guy, he's gonna come to your house, so grand. So he came to our house, and we paid him for his time. And he just brought like ingredients and my wife got to sit there. It was just the three of us at just drinking what they made. And she got to get hammered Nasc him a thousand questions and do what you want to do. They took their time. And he just push it out of our garden. It's amazing. That's so fun. But what's grays? It's like, it's not even the drinking that makes her happy. It's the tangible construction of this thing at the end of the day. It's their learning with the ritual, and they're also the thing doing dishes feels great because you're like no doesn't to me. It's amazing. You know, it's like being a writer, you type laptop clothes, and you look around you. What did I do today? Right result of that. It got it. No one can see that. But when you walk up to a stack of dishes, and I can make this thing. Go away. Yeah. I get that. Yeah. So anyways to her. That's that's what it is. So, but my my point is that develop very late. We've been. Gather for seven years, right? We already had a kid or two by that. And she found it and she developed it. Now, that's become a thing where I'm like, I don't have to feel like a jackass by being like, hey, can you make me cocktail the twelve minutes in his fifty ingredients like fucking on that because that's her thing. She doesn't feel bad show. Like, literally put our child in the fireplace to go make a cocktail. I'm just saying that could be you could figure out we thing is that your future wife could depend on future partner. Depend on me for. I I think of her basically before I think of myself in any situation, and I think she knows that. And so she she knows like she, you know, she mentioned something in passing on probably gonna have it for the next time a matter house, or or I don't know. I don't know. I'll ask her. She wrote me she wrote me twenty things I love about you for our anniversary will bring that list next time on this place. You remember any of them? Yeah. Okay. It's a little personal. You just bring. And I will read them on their would you can't say it was just a way to it's just the way to put to end the conversation. Now never really gonna bring it over. The course of fun talks future. I'm going to secretly enroll to get some version of psychotherapy degrees. So that this will eventually just sessions. Great for you. Great so excited. So excited. My point is she's fucking cracking out doughnuts. Now, you got to figure something out, man. That's like an option. Now is good job. I know I'm just saying what is your doughnuts? That's what you've got gotta find, you know, besides not killing motorcycle. Every time. You drive we took it on around the other day for the first time. He hasn't been on it and one it was a nice short ride. Carmax? Karmic doesn't have electric cars for me to buy talese. Really? I don't know. Actually, just use your saying. I'm sure there are no I don't think you can lease tarmacs. I don't think you can lease from carmax not getting. I'm sure you could do a payment plan though. Right. I guess so anybody help would be helpful. We're trying to get what's your name Brian off the motorcycle here. I've now become my do you want? I don't wanna I want it to be a fun thing that I do every once in a while. Also, it's gonna fucking rain here again for four days coming up next week. So I'm screwed again. Such a pain in the ass. Phenom has just don't want. I could go get a call a stupid car, but I wanna bunch you just not get electric scooters in public transportation because it's raining all the time public transportation. I don't have that kind of time. What are you talking about this? It's not great here. I don't live by train. So they're fine. Biggest plus system in the country long. We should figure out what I'm gonna come next week with the prepped blissed and with times and everything of how long it would take me to take the bus everywhere for everything that I do in the city. I realized that buses can be great. I took buses and trains at Chicago never had a car in Chicago. You realize it for eleven and a half months of the year. You can take scooters in this town. Yes. Of course. And that's great for band. For every heavy recency bias here. No we're talking about. How spread out Los Angeles is and how the how far I have to go to all the different things. I do in my life. It's not like living in Chicago, everything because you in the lady don't live together. Right. That's the biggest distance because your work. Six longer to get to this damn office. You we're gonna use the F no were and all the additions and shit. Life is just stupid right now. So I can't be taking a bus everywhere. Everything is awesome. Everything is also how long has it been are we done? No, we're not fucking done. You want to tell everybody about your recent coffee. Revelations guys don't drink three coffees every day. But see here's the thing to do. My brothers who were listeners guess siblings of the pod the twelve I mean, this is I've gotten more into coffee to appreciate but I'm trying to here. But I know I'm saying they literally I will go to a coffee shop with them. And they'll say six espressos, please. What isn't that just coffee? Do they put that in one Cup? Was it six individual shots are unclear but I'm saying like, you're not the only person in the planet that drinks three coffees. I'm not sure. Know, I'm not sure say I'm just saying why is your body revolting? I just don't think it's probably not a good idea. It affects it affects me has it always resist freezing. Because you've always had this much. I think I'm drinking more lately. What do you think that is? I don't know because I love the taste of it. I don't think it's like a I don't know a thing where I'm like. Oh, man. I gotta just fucking coffee. I just like, well, I wake up and have a coffee. So that's like never changes. Then I think probably make another Cup of coffee. Also MC sitting at home on my computer inputting data for this fucking job. So I need to have a coffee while I'm sitting there doing it. People could see your face when you do your fucking typing. Your spreadsheet face is amazing just to hear discussing. I did is just chill on the coffee little bit. I gotta find something else to drink green tea. Great love green tea. Yeah. Green tea Obama. Are you above green tea? I'm not up above anything. I just don't drink. Don't drink tears that will start next week or you could start this on your own. But we're not going to get a t we're not going to get it to get a coffee and tea. Okay. Okay. Okay. By step. Do the meal punch pipeline and an time back grantee back green tea back from Crete? I think those from my girlfriend asked me if Michael Jordan was a basketball player. She so great. He is delicious. I did. I said he's an actor. And he's got quite a body on him. Anyways, you put in here, fun talk topic, my trip home and my mom exclamation point. Yeah, let's go which are those related because mom's not living at home. These days wreck their unrelated to different entries. You can see. They're two different entries. Well, I pretty sure last week on our fun talk or maybe it didn't area. Whatever we talked about. I was going home. But surprise my brothers. My chest. Chris my friend's daughter for four th birthday. And I did that. And it was great children the right down the street. Basically the now, I know I do too. I can't believe it's been so long. I want them to know who I am. I love kids, and they usually like me back. I have been very clear to you that as with everyone else at this stage and family life. We have the same schedule every day of their life. We are available. Well, I take full responsibility and blame they have a little setup like cocoa. It's just pictures of you and candle. Know when the last pictures gone the last person who remembers you is gone the near gun, then York on well, anyway, my trip home great. Did you tell anybody you're coming? I didn't tell anybody that was there now. So how did you know when the party was and all that stuff Facebook Facebook because he's still my friends still invited me to the part, you know, part of the party in the event page of Facebook. So that's actually where I realized I was fine there because he just built a new house has fucking. I don't even know where he address so thank lose in the Facebook. And by any was really great surprised the hell out of everybody. But not in a big way. It was about it was about my made it about you know, I certainly did not. And it was really wonderful. I got to see so many people that haven't seen in a while. And including so many kids like there were so many kids at this at this party for a kid, obviously. And and it was like, I don't know. I don't usually get to do that. And it was just wonderful that your house. Anyway, it's fun. Right. There's really fun. You had brought your girlfriend would she have physically forced you to make a baby right? That's what it made me think. It's just so crazy being home. Where all of your friends are didn't move to us Angeles on a train to pursue acting, and they all have houses, and wives and income, and I have an income. Yeah. And children, and they all get together and the dad's hang out in the moms hang out and the kids play it just makes you go. Like, oh, what if I didn't fucking leave? Maybe I'll be doing this in my that'd be pretty good. Pretty good life. I think so I think I will relatively soon be later. No, no. I'm saying there. Oh, I don't know. What would you do? I don't know. I would have had to go back to school for something that wasn't theater get, you know, get some stupid. Joe, I don't know degree doesn't fucking matter. Everybody knows that. Maybe what would you? What would you be doing? No idea. Maybe I would learn to code so that I could work for my buddy, you can still coat. I know how fast would you leave this job with your tier two friend to go work with your tier one friend. You're not a tier to friend number one number two fast. Kidding immediately. Nobody was really she would have made you made a baby immediately, right? I think so I keep finding more that I'm the one who wants the baby now wants baby for sure just not right now. I would take one right now. She's not going to. She's not going to push it out the door. No, no. This thing happens. What's happening? She's ready to go. It's going down. You think she likes making food? We till she starts making baby food. In the little adorable, baby blenders. Yeah. The best I got cookbooks for I may even still have the blender. It's just send them to her anonymously. Yeah. Yeah. She's going to be a good mom. I thought I thought it had kid number four locked up a couple of weeks ago. I was telling my friends who who has three and one and doesn't want another one. I was like you should. I had locked up glue. He wants like a we were in the process of making it, right? We're out to dinner, and there's a friend. We saw friend who had a bunch of trouble like us making their children in this. Was there one child they're like miracle assigns baby? Six months just perfect napping on your shoulder. My wife, literally, just left our dinner together date night walked away. I took this baby knows like this is it this is I trade a couple of hours of having a real conversation with my wife for for number four. And then it doesn't happen. Do you think it because you because it wasn't easy for you guys that you want more? If it was no problem to be popping out kids. Would you be more satisfied with three threes? Good, by the way, threes. Great threes crepe. But it's also like I am terrified of dying. And everything is like, oh, well that moment's gone never going to get that moment back basic things. And I just think like it's a it's like Eminem like you get one shot like why not one out have another one. Of course, the argument our entire business like not enough resources in the world. Saving the other side is they've identified we're gonna hit our peak. And it's going to go down. It's real bad. I like to fully I can educate them and train them enough as good humans that they can help the greater situation. Yeah. I having a podcast. And they ask what did you do when the climate came for us, and I'll say I had in the newsletter and some social stuff that's pretty good. But the point is I don't know. I think just a selfish thing to be clear. It's not going to happen. Number four is not happening. Who knows you can't tell the future? No, no. No, no. I can it's not happening. I think it's a two percent chance. Anyways. We're gonna say about your mom among texts me. And she says Brian. I'm listening to your podcast. It's so awesome. Hearing you talk. I love it. And I was like, oh, my great. She said she listened to it was a fun talk. I realized that she was listening to not a fucking episode. She said. You're you're searching your house for something sweet after a meal, and then just accepting that there isn't anything searching for something. Sweet after meal and seven there was nothing. She she can totally relate. And then she said that she say. Oh, she said she's done. Then you know, what I'm done. That's it. That's all. She said. She said she said, she doesn't do a fun talk and not an episodes. I told her to listen to episode, and that's it, and I won't sell the fun part. No, tell me the fun part come on. It's fun talk. I have to go almost one o'clock shit to do you got to tell us. Tell us what the fun part is. And then we gotta do boxes, and I guess meant the foreign what FOX's for our guest. She didn't spree Email back. She. Yeah. You don't know. Now. That's it. Tell me that's it. You can't force me to speak. I'm not going to stop press. Stop on this bug ass until you tell you have likened stop talking. We'll just let it roll. Such wants to punch you. Wait, did she really say that she said I wanted punch your friend teeny bit. Why I loved her for it. And I laughed and I laughed by the way one get in line. What does she want to punch me thing? Is you don't know my mom? So you you can't fully appreciate this. She so fond du ready, but also, I know her. Why would you like to punch me a little bit? I said why do you wanna punch him? And she said 'cause he gives you a lot of shit. I hear long from you. We've talked about this though. And I said, yeah, she said she she's type he knows it. He said, so yeah. Yeah. We've talked about, but you said your tier one friend, whatever the fuck is name is when us kids go visit and birthdays, you know, in houses, you hunt down on the internet lot effort. You said that you guys give each other Shittu, right? Absolutely. Yeah. It's a sign of a good tier one friend. I think so right that you can handle it. Of course. I mean, you only go into like existential crisis because like every six months or so that was one time at the front of Kathy. Gratitude bring that shit up again, it was a dark day. We gotta go back there. Dirk, man. I would love to you know, what's sad, my girlfriend can eat there. Everything's made a fucking nuts. Let me if I was allergic. It's not severe, thankfully. But yeah, she can't even walk in that place. No, no. She's she went there. And she had a burrito thing without the cheese. And it was fine. Great. She's not like nuts are in the air. I'm having direct. But I do remember after she said that I took a photo of it. With the first time I went to gratitude, I think they have a little sign right up right at the front door that says like if login nuts like just turned around and go home, right? Get the fuck it will they have to. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Man that place we should get together for you know, I realized I don't think Tim wants to hang out with us anymore. I haven't seen him in so long. It's not like it's his fall disappeared for six years by the north feel like we've sent some Tim who makes the music made the music for podcast. Really even heard from him since I like that guy. He's a good guy and the other guy Jim devastatingly. Good looking so handsome could handsome is like he started to get gray. And you're like, oh now, you look sophisticated you fuck you really works ram. Yeah. A little bit in the beard little bit. I mean, give it a give it a rest. My roommate. My roommate has such a crush on him who doesn't. Yeah. From your songwriter used to check out Tim blame. We'll put it in the put in the notes on apple music or Spotify. Whatever the fuck, you are Tim Blaine magnetic, I'll get in their man's great. God, we should hang out with them. I it would be nice. It would be nice that's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up. This has been fun talk with Brian Quinn. Teddy still not here. Once let me we just haven't back for once, you know. Although you know, what I'm gonna do groomers across the street. Grooming appointed he asked to come with me. I would love that. And then we'll we'll do it somehow. We'll get some I'll get expensive cat treats from. Yeah. That'd be great. That'd be great. We'll be great. It's been a fun talk. Shoot us any feedback. You got a important impulse Twitter or fun, talk and important on portent dot com. And we will talk to you guys on Tuesday by.

Brian Los Angeles Chicago Tim Blaine partner Netflix Joe Jim Facebook I Washington Carmax Brian Calvert Markham Meriwether Kennedy grace Christabel Hulu flu
#77: Please, Please, Please Do A Good Job, Colorado

Important, Not Important

1:00:26 hr | 1 year ago

#77: Please, Please, Please Do A Good Job, Colorado

"Welcome to important important not important. My name is in. My name is brian calvert kennedy. This is the podcast where we dive into a specific topic or question affecting affecting everyone on the planet right now or in the next ten years or so if it can kill us for tunis into helping thousands but good helmet thousands wherein our guests are scientists doctors engineers politicians astronauts even irreverent and we work together actions together together. That's where the emphasis is together together. I was emphasized. I was improvising. It toward action steps that our listeners can take what their voice and their dollar. This is your friend of your mind. You can send questions thoughts feedback feedback cash in envelopes to us on twitter at important not imp or you can email us at fun talk at important not important dot com got a couple of people who emailed past couple of days about investing in their company and i had to explain to them we do not do that. Wow very that no no no no no. I know you don't want to hear more about that. Did you. Just ask listeners to send us money and i'm loops by the way you know what else they can. What else can they join thousands of other smart people and subscribe to our free weekly newsletter at important not important dot com this week's episode brian is hey colorado. Let's do the right thing shall we. I mean that sounds great to me and our guest is democratic candidate for u._s. Senate mike johnston johnston. This is the first in our series of <hes> twenty twenty conversations and just a reminder that these will always be considered and conducted under the auspices this is of how will this can affect the topics that we cover <hes> the issues that are affecting like we said everyone right now on a planet or the next ten years or so we might not have your <hes> favorite people on <hes>. We won't get everybody. <hes> believe is like list. We're working on <hes> people that fit that at that prison so excited it one note <hes> despite the best efforts over incredible editors and producers there are going to be some audio issues in this one <hes> you can check our instagram of mike was on a trip with his daughter and crouching in a public library in queens to try to get this done so we appreciate it astara. We appreciate it but you know public wi library wi fi is <hes> you know not all. It's cracked up to be so anyways. Thanks to mike and please please enjoy this conversation with johnson great conversation our guest today is mike johnston and together. We're we can ask whether colorado can handle the pressure. That is <hes> atmospheric pressure. Aka will the jet stream. Stop working and political pressure <hes> okay. Can we get two democratic senators in there <hes> flip the senate and hopefully vote in some semblance of a war war to level climate clean energy and environmental will justice mobilization to make sure that jetstream keeps working no pressure. Mike welcome thank you. It's good to know that the fate of the planet as well as the fate of the u._s. u._s. Senate rests in our hands. No female today no big deal aug. Fine it is it is a pleasure to have you <hes> if <hes> you don't mind. Let's just introduce you yourself to everybody. Let everybody know who you are and what you're up to. You bet. I'm so grateful to be on on your show. Thanks for having me. I'm mike johnston. I'm from colorado. I'm a former schoolteacher in school principal than i spent seven years in the state senate and now i am the democratic candidate that for the u._s. senate race here in colorado and <hes> as to will be one of the most closely-watched and we think most consequential the u._s. senate races in the country on. I mean you could say ever maybe ever put again. We're the goal is to not make you feel any pressure here. That's right yeah we're. We're doing a swell job so yes all right brian. Let's do it <hes> yeah of course <hes> so we'll get into a here. We just want to remind everybody. Let you know of course <hes> the goal of podcast here is to is to provide some context for why we're talking to you today and we're going to get into some action oriented questions <hes> that get to the core of why we should care about you and what you're up to <hes> and what we can all do to help and support you sound goodbye sounds wonderful awesome awesome so mike we'd like to start with one important question and i will say as i said to the other gentleman recently at this point. We don't have a lot of white guys on the show. The casino had quite enough of those <hes>. It didn't work out so great so bas