20 Episode results for "Brian Bowen"

College basketball's federal trial gets underway with some big opening statements (10.3)

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

41:16 min | 2 years ago

College basketball's federal trial gets underway with some big opening statements (10.3)

"Hey, there I'm Kerry Wednesday, October third, two thousand eighteen welcome back to the island. Cal basketball pack. And Matt norlander is here with me awhile. We've quoted a podcast nearly a month if I checked the records and that's because norlander became a father for the second time. He's been on paternity leave paternity leave, but he's back now had another baby. Boy. He did not name the baby. Joe mad norlander and that's good. Considering dismal performance from the cubs over the past couple of days norlander how you've been, how's the baby little Khalil? Mack norlander is is doing fine, and it's not actually Khalil Mack, but I was damn tempted to try and make a name change after Misha cog bears are three. No, since my son, Alex was born, we're doing great great to be back on the cash at to the listeners for your patience. We appreciate that. We'll be back on a weekly schedule here and then the season gets going. We'll go back to three times a week, but things at home are. Busy an interesting, but I'm I'm making out just fine. And yes, it was. It was a boy. So there we go. I was at about. I can't remember if I said this on the podcast or not perish, but by the time we got to the moment of truth hours at about eighty to eighty three percent that we were going to have a boy. And the reason that was was my wife was unintentionally tipping your hand. So the small party thought, okay, unless she's playing this so sly. So I was ready for the doctor. You know, my wife ended up having a c. section at six fifty in the morning, and she's like, are here here is you have a, this is going to be a last second. I was like, this is going to be a girl and I was so ready for girl and so eager for one. But we gotta boy, which is awesome. So on the oldest, four boys now I have two sons norlander male gene is is running extremely strong hair, but it's fantastic and it's it's been. It's been a fun couple of weeks here with the exception of last night as I was. Was watching my Cubbies just completely Peter out and pull a Mets for the better part of the past month. Really. I mean, just could not get any runs, but it's been awesome to to watch the cubs and to kind of just, you know, be with my with my newborn hair. So that's an exciting thing. But it's obviously Tober and we're getting close to troop season. So that's a great thing to, but most of all just happy to be doing the podcast again, does the fact that you wanted to girl make you resent your second son? Not even close. I actually liked the fact that I have two boys. I, I, I don't know if we'll have a third or not. So I like that my older son Carter if we're only going to have to, I think I prefer to have the same same gender. So you know, you grow up as brothers as opposed to appoint a girl. If we do eventually go for third, which I don't know if we do or not. I will be absolutely pulling to have a girl there, but but wind up seeing. But Alex wound up winning for the name that. It was my wife's winning pick here a beat out. Luke was my choice, and then we also considered grant and Everett and and so, yeah, that wand up being real quick though, so get this. And I, I do want listener feedback on this as well. And I want you to be honest with me too. So. He was born on September, thirteenth, so September twelfth. So we picked the names reach boy and girl and doing this, not knowing that we would have the child. The next day he came early. He was earlier than the scheduled c section. And so. So we pick the names and we were going to go with Heidi for girl because Heidi, I referenced the social security list. It's consistent. You can look at the pattern of name popularity. Heidi has been Chilin in the three hundreds for sixty years in terms of how popular it is overall. It never gets into the top one hundred and never dress down into the seven or eight hundred. I was like, you know what that's common enough, but not not crazy, comet, Heidi norlander. It's got a very Swedish vibe to my wife and I totally loved it. So we have the boy, we have Alex, and then you know, our parents are start asking us if it was a girl, what was going to be? And I was like, you know what? I loved, Daphne. My wife shot it down. So we went through DAPHNE. I know. I know your daughter be called Scooby doo. I know we are. This is now a code after the previous podcast. I know. But regardless, I still love the name, Daphne. So so then all of all of our family and many of our friends are like, oh God, Heidi is just horrible hideous. We knew three people who hate Heidi's that they already know. So. So we got to talk if we'd actually had a girl and we named it Heidi, would we be getting honest feedback like this? Probably not. So it's good that it's good that we didn't, but we would hope that our family, it'd be like, you know, within twenty four hours. Let's just let's rethink this whole thing. So we were completely unaware. Then again, it's our kids who who the hell cares if we want to name it, what we want to name it, so be it, but what are your, what are your thoughts on Heidi here? Do you side with the most of the people aren't life? Or do you think that hiding norlander if it had been a girl, does that ring to it? I don't mind it at all. I think of highly clue. How wouldn't there a Heidi on the hills? Did you ever watch the hills? I cannot say that I have there was a high. Yeah. There was a Heidi and Spencer so Heidi from the hills and highly clue. And I think that's about it pops into my. I don't mind. How did that? You know what I would have done if it was girl for you fire. Alex, I actually, that's the thing p p Kelly. When we were discussing names before we knew what we were going to have on the on. The list for girl names, not boy names. I didn't wanna boy him out, but I like to girl named Alex. I like I like girl names for boys and boy named for girls. We never actually executed that with our sons, but I liked Alex for a for a girl. I'm with you. I, that was my top ten girl into Alex girl. My wife didn't like it at all, and it's kind of like how I like Schuyler for a boy, but not spelled like s. k. y. l. a. r. I like the super old school s. c. h. u. my wife's like, no, we're not doing that. But anyway, I'm right there with the. I like when, like I like Dylan for girl. When you when you throw the traditional names out for one gender, give it to the other. I'm totally on board with you there. So. All right. Just to ensure we do not do another baby named podcast back to back on. Congratulations. And I'll see. I know you've been busy, but it's nice to nice to have you back. Nice to be back recording the college basketball podcast. So the big news is that this week, the trials connected the college basketball scandal that feature tin men getting arrested and charged with federal crimes last September. They started this week in opening statements. Jim ghettos trial were especially interesting. Basically, we now know that Jim gadoe and I'm assuming Makoto be the same way and perhaps Christian doctrines the same way. Jim ghettos not going to deny that he did what he's accused of doing. He's merely going to argue or is it is attorneys are that he broke into Blair rules, not committed federal crimes. His attorney actually said in the opening statements, yes today and her name is Kay. Donnelly. She said NCWA rules were broken when we are not going to waste your time, pretending these families did not get funds. Jim gadoe broken suitably rules, but instable rules are not laws, and this is a, I think, an interesting defense if not unexpected. Because if they were going to go to trial, this is the way that you had to to argue it in. People had pointed this out myself included several times over the past several months that the defense is not going to be that we didn't do what we're accused of doing because like you're caught, the defense is going to be, but it's not a crime. And where this gets interesting is that they're smart legal minds who have debated for a year. Now whether what the people involved here actually did is is a federal crime and the way that the prosecution is the the only way they can argue that it is. Crime. The perhaps not the only way, but the way that they've argued that it's a crime is that they've labeled the universities involved as fictims. In other words, the argument from the prosecution side is that Jim gadoe defrauded Kansas or Louisville or NC state, and he defraud them by compromising student athletes that they were going to enroll. And then those student athletes would be eligible and it would it would cost university that the university was victim. What gadoe was arguing, and I think reasonably so is that get outta my face with this like their victim? I wasn't working in the shadows. I was working for them. I was doing what they asked me to do. There is no victim here. Everybody got what they wanted. I wanted high profile players at Adidas schools. The schools wanted Hypo wanted me to. Help them get high profile players and high profile players. Families wanted to be compensated to go to a certain school. Everybody got what they wanted. There is no victim and if there is no victim, there is no fraud. And if there is no fraud, I'm not guilty. I didn't commit a crime. I mean, that's basically where we're at right now. Right norlander. Yeah, that's a large part of it for those who want to also a good angle on on what Tuesday brought about Paris's obviously, and get into it a little bit more on the podcast as well. Call him up about what makes this trial. Interesting and the fallout here and we'll get to that in just a second. The the opening statement. Was intriguing in that. I did not expect certain schools to get tossed out immediately in terms of being linked to this schools that are not even. Under federal probe right now, to me, the most interesting part of Tuesday was that you did not have the prosecution. You had the defense bringing up, Oregon allegedly throwing out astronomical money to land Brian Bowen and and putting out there that NC state pay Dennis Smith and his family, a ton of money to go. There we can now say this. I feel comfortable saying this let me because I, I don't think that's actually what was said. I think what was said about Dennis Smith is that ghetto provided the family with forty thousand dollars while he was at NC state right now, Dennis Smith going to NC state and college basketball circles when it was happening was there was a ton of suspicion over that. Okay. But again, if you don't have the evidence, you don't have the proof is, but from what Yahoo reported and had the paperwork on back in February to what we have here. Now regardless parish for the defense to come out. And start naming names and making accusations against other schools. This wasn't the prosecution. It was defense doing this because it's basically saying, this is how things are working at the high major level. We know you have the receipts in the forms of of wiretaps. In some cases, I believe even some video as well. And obviously the text messages that were that were captured as well. So they know that there's no out that way. They know that you're absolutely saying, yeah, this, this happened, but NCWA rules are not federal law. They're not. They're not laws period just because we were benefiting one party to help. Another doesn't mean that necessarily we were breaking federal law in this case is flimsy on those grounds. We'll see if they have success on that or not will say this. It is intriguing to me that federal cases that get to this level, I don't have the exact figure, but I remember when this all came out, I believe Michael mechanics. I had the had the figure on this some some months back when you wrote about it. But when you get to this level. Out of federal case, is this a case of this kind of purview as the conviction rate is like ninety five percent? It's it's ridiculously high. It might even be higher than that, but at the same time and I was talking with a coach on Tuesday night who has. Can't give the coach up, but he was notified that he was caught on a wiretap amid this FBI investigation. He pointed out that while that is true. There's never really been a case like this before. So the super high conviction rate isn't necessarily going to mean that you're going to see the defense in defendants in this case, and then the assistant's those cases don't even start that their particular case, the other three assistance, not including Chuck Person who has his own those starting twenty nine hundred even after the season's over. But since you've got such a different type of trial here, it might be a a bit foolish to assume that because the conviction rate in federal trials of this kind parish have gone toward the way of the department of Justice and the prosecution doesn't necessarily mean that will be the case here. It will be extremely intriguing. What happens on that end? And then as I volley it back to you, the organ stuff is obviously the juiciest thing here. When you've got the defense saying, you know, my client was looking. Level, the playing field offer one hundred thousand dollars on behalf of the DS to try and lure Brian bow and junior to get to Louisville and in doing so, he's off what the market was in particular Oregon was offering out there. There were other schools that Bowen had on his on his top five list, including Creighton, Michigan state to all believe. We have a quote that has come out in the past twenty four hour saying that Michigan state was absolutely not trying to buy bone under no circumstances, which is interesting because Michigan state was the most local team to Bom where he grew up in Michigan that's also were dockings his from. So you've got a lot of interesting elements here in Oregon for its part released a statement on Tuesday saying, we've never been contacted by the federal authorities. We're gonna monitor this case, but as it pertains to what the defense alleged here, we have not been involved whatsoever on this and any matter I will also Paris. Oregon did not announce that it was starting. Any type of internal or external investigation. At this point, we'll see if that changes in the coming days whether or not Oregon's name gets brought into this even further as the trial continues. I think you're not probably talked to the same coach last night and because I talked to somebody who said a lot of similar things and it's exactly right, like the the conviction rate is incredibly high above ninety percent. But this case is is very different and right from the jump people have. Nobody's ever debated whether these things go on or went on. The debate has been okay, but are they federal crimes? They're clearly in suitably violations, but are they federal crimes. For instance, one of the point Casey danley made yesterday points she made was that instable rules are a little bit like apartment complex rules. For instance, in my neighborhood, we're not allowed to have our garbage cans. Visible cannot be visible from the street in any way. You keep them in your backyard. You keep them in your garage, but they cannot be visible. And if they are what happens to you? I don't get charged with a crime. I get a letter from the neighborhood association saying, come on pairs, put your put your garbage cans up, right? And if you continue to do it, they might actually find you something okay but but the cops aren't going to show up like it's not a crime to have your garbage cans visible, but would be in violation of my neighborhood association rules. Same thing here, at least that's what the argument is. It is. It is undeniably against NCWA rules for Jim gadoe to do Jim ghetto knowledge is he did, but it is not a federal crime. And the reason it's not a federal crime is because there is no victim. He did not defraud anybody. In fact, he was working hand in hand with the college basketball coaches who were asking for his help. They were not defraud it. They were assisted. Everybody got out of this deal exactly what they wanted. Jim wanted high profile players at Adidas schools. The schools wanted gyms help, and the family. Wanted money, no victim, everybody got what they wanted. And when you try to argue that, you know keep in mind. They're not arguing this to a committee of athletic directors. They're arguing to a jury that largely has no concept of instable Heff legs of college, basketball of amateurism. And so I, I think it was Dan Wetzel who was tweeting about this, like the jury pool is like. It ain't me and you on that jury or anybody listening to this podcast on that jury, they're just people who don't know anything about anything. And when you try to argue to them. Or make the case to them that, hey, listen, what he did was was in violation of these rules that most people don't even agree with to begin with, but it wasn't a crime. There is no victim. I think that resin. I think it can resonate. I think it's a, it's a defense that just might work. I, which is why a sort of the point I make in the column that I wrote yesterday, like who cares about Jim gadoe thirteen months ago. Nobody else had really tight basketball circles. New Jim Gada was like whether Jim gadoe is guilty of federal crimes and serves prison time is important to Jim gadoe and his family and his friends, but like it really doesn't matter to anybody else. What matters is, what happens to everybody else, these college basketball programs that millions of people care about. And the point I'm making the columnists. The collateral damage here from Jim gadoe trial is much more interesting than what actually happens. Did you ghetto because just in the opening statements as you point out ghettos attorney says, yes, he paid one hundred thousand dollars agreed to pay one hundred thousand dollars to Brian Bowen's family, but only after organ offered an astronaut number. He was just letting the Plainfield now organs roped in. I don't know whether they'll be able to prove or. Offered an astronaut number. But it was said in court yesterday and he says, yes, he gave forty thousand dollars to Smith's family. So that's bad news for state. And that's bad news for Mark, Godfrey, Mark. Now that head coach Cal State Northridge. It was a little weird when he got that job. Considering this cloud was hovering. Cal State Northridge was like, well, we've looked into it and we feel like he's at risk of nothing. Well, now, at the very least he was the coach of a program whose player was whose family best players. Family was paid forty thousand dollars by an Adidas executives like that according to an Adidas executive. So like you know, sort through that, have you want ghetto also says that, yes, yes. He paid twenty thousand dollars to somebody connected to Sylvia Susa to get him to go to Kansas, but only after Under Armour had already paid twenty thousand dollars to get into Maryland. So now under arms wrapped up in his thing barrel. We already knew was wrapped up in this. Thanks, but I can't imagine Silvio is going to play college basketball again, I mean when when you've got an Adidas executive admitting, yes, this is what I did. I don't know how the instantly doesn't really been eligible n beyond then he played in the final four last year. Canes is going to have to vacate. I would. I would assume so perish. I don't see how that doesn't happen and something to keep in mind as we as this trial, which is expected to last anywhere from three to four weeks could be done by Halloween. We'll see remember the new rules put forth. These are. These are now on the books, and we did a podcast, you know, months or so ago about this. The instable can now in its own investigations, take things discovered by legitimate outside investigative bodies and use them toward their own investigation without having to further probe. So the, here's my thing though, what gets set in court, and then what does the entity Belay us to adjudicate things? For example, you mentioned Oregon, if this just gets continually tossed out, but we don't have okay. Who did it who was offering the money who who are the people tied to that? Okay. And do you have a specific money mount? Do you have timelines? You have anything if you don't, then if you're an organ fan. I would think that you're going to be at worst punishment, but at best probably probed by the instable at some point, but maybe there ever be anything proven there. So it's a matter of what gets played out in court and then what the AA deems legitimate enough to say, okay, no, what we what we saw there at this first trial, this is going to be enough for us to Levy some sort of sanctions. That's what's going to be intriguing to me. 'cause you're right. There's going to be a lot of collateral damage here and we're gonna find out here. More witnesses are going to provide very interesting testimony. It's a matter of how much clout those witnesses have and what's put forth by the prosecution via wiretaps or any other things that have come up through their own investigations that are deemed appropriate for the court and for the jury and what the judge allows and what the instantly takes from that. I would have to believe that there are actual incidentally representatives on the task force or as a member of the COO I committee on infractions that are attending these hearings on a daily basis. Yeah. The other big note from the. Opening statement and was AirAsia was willing to pay one hundred fifty thousand dollars to get in a little. So Miller's got questions to answer now. Like we already know. That book Richardson was committing major instable rules violations while recruiting. Well here if it was proven that AirAsia is somebody on a wiretap from Arizona saying, hey, we can do one hundred fifty for little if so that's that's big problems. And so all of this is going to presumably come out over the next few weeks and you're exactly right though yesterday it was just organ was willing to do this era Sona was willing to do this. I would assume the specifics the details come out in the in the coming weeks and that's where I think these programs in these, the people who run these programs could be facing some some big issues. For instance, when they say Oregon often and an astronaut number, we don't know what that means yet, but, but I'm assuming we'll find out. Okay. Was it Nike on behalf of Oregon? Was it Dan? Allman was an organ booster. Was it an organ system? Like who who, who from Oregon was offering an astronomical number, but it seems like Brian and father who has been granted immunity from prosecution is going to take the stand. Don't ask him all kinds of questions because what they're trying to do is paint a picture accurately. I, I think that, hey, this is the way things got done. Jim gadoe one out there like a lone wolf, just throwing tens of thousands of dollars round. Jim gotta was just trying to level the playing field for the schools because and this is essentially what they're saying because you had to if you were competing with Nike schools and the under armor schools, like I don't know that this is what they'll say, but this is kind of what they're saying. We didn't want to go have to give one hundred thousand dollars to get Brian, go to Louisville, But we didn't know he was going go to Nike school because somebody connected to anarchy school was doing it, and we didn't want to have to give twenty thousand dollars to seal to go to Kansas. But we didn't. He was going to go to an unarmed school because under armor had already given twenty thousand dollars. They are trying to paint the picture that this is the way college basketball recruiting goes. It is. It's been that way for a while. It didn't start with Jim gadoe probably won't him with Jim gadoe and. And in there everybody was a willing participant. No, there are no victims here. Everybody was a willing participant, and I think I think that can resonate with the jury. But again, like what Brian Boleyn's father say when he takes stain like. I would assume they're gonna ask him who else offered money. I, that's gotta best. That's that's coming. And he's. No reason to lie. In fact, he's got every reason not to lie. Yep, though. Yeah. Okay. What did this school say? What could you get done with from this go? What could you get done from this school? Who did you talk to? Who did they talk to like that when TJ gas Nola who ghettos right hand man. Like what's he going to be asked on that stay? Is it going to be okay, did you did you deliver a bag to Seuss's people? Okay. Did Bill self know about that? Curtis Townsend know about that. Like these are the types of questions I'm assuming are going to be. Asked and those answers might not lead to criminal problems for the staffs at Oregon or Kansas, or AirAsia or Maryland, but they could lose lead to big in CWA AA problems in job problems for those staff. And I think if I were if I were involved in any program that was named in that opening statement yesterday, I'd be a little nervous right now because it's probably not going to get better for you. It's probably going to get worse. Yeah. In fact, I'm in the midst of this hot seat thing every year. It's kind of nature of the beast. Don't love doing it, but fact is every year college football college, basketball, their coaches. Whose jobs are there potentially on the line with with performance in the season ahead. But I mean, as I'm building this out, perish and I'm thinking last night, I'm like. You know, I understand that Arunas administration stood behind Shawn Miller, but how is how is he still not on the hot seat and in some way, like with Kansas being roped in like this? Like how Bill job not at least up for some curious discussion as pertains to this case and what white have been done on behalf of a d this for Kansas to begin with it. It's. It is interesting. Now, I don't know how many more head coaches are going to lose their jobs because of this trial. Certainly, there's the potential for that for a lot of information to come out and for the instable a to eventually still not doing anything. By the way, the FBI has advised the instability to stand down on its investigations until these trials finish. So again, I know we've been to pass podcasts. This is going to be something that just it's going to creep along in some ways for years because of the nature of how long these trials will take and then what the to afterward. I'll be interesting how many other schools come up should note that there are no major college coaches that are getting called to the stand. That's not in the cards for this trial. So you will not be seeing Sean Miller Bill self, Dana Altman, you name it. You name the coach. These Patino like they're not going to be called to the stand. So their testimony won't be in play here would just probably ultimately a good thing for them because I do believe that if there was real reason for them to have legitimate concern and worry, I think they'd be more prominently displayed on the witness list. That's not the case. Here's one more thought ahead, parish, you mentioned Silvio Susa, Brian Bowen. These were good prospects. These were not one and done prospects. These top five elite prospects sh, you know, almost surefire, lottery prospects, potentially in little. But I will also say that the f. b. i. cleared Zere little and his family. From any sort of wrongdoing here, that kind of stuff was being done. Beyond the scope of the family's knowledge, they vehemently denied all of this. When it came out parents on the record, the whole deal and it it came to be known that you know the people around little grassroots coach and and shoe company representatives for more trying to trying to work deal there. But for the most part, these are not a players just makes you think sometimes not breaking new ground here, but you know why you're paying this much money to get Brian bone. Like really, it just shows you how the underground black market economy forgetting talent can just get to a certain level where it's it's cutthroat and shoe company representatives. Are people trying to get paid if these guys make the NBA or. Yeah. In some cases, coaching staff know that the difference between getting this player versus that player, you know what it might mean the difference between eighteen and twenty three wins, which could mean the difference between tournament or not, or it could be the difference between a five seed. A two seed, and that's the difference between win two games and winning four games in the incidentally tournament. So that's a lot of the calculus that can go into this. And without a doubt, this trial is going to put on display a lot of what we've known as gone on for so long in college sports in as this all happens. I wonder what the people in the college football community think. And if it's sport was on trial like this, what we might find. But regardless, I think it will be pretty interesting almost daily. We should be getting some some intriguing updates and. As we talk about this more as a month goes along. We podcast weekly here. Will be interesting to see how this trial wraps up what the verdicts are, and then I would think that it wants. It wraps up. I mean, this should be ending just as the season starting. So it's going to be interesting to transition from this to the actual game starting and see how those things connect. The I mean, I've said that from the jump about Brian Bowen and like if we know that Brian Bowen's family had to do in place, four hundred thousand dollars like it's nonsensical to assume that the twenty dudes ranked ahead of Brian Bowen in his in his class, some of them. Weren't compromised as well. You'd have to be pretty naive to subscribe to that. And the one hundred thousand dollars is a big number. Keep in mind. And I know you know this, this ain't coming out of some coaches pocket. It's coming from Adidas one hundred dollars Dita's. Nothing like it's Pinis. And so that's why like Adidas is happy to pay a hundred thousand dollars to get a five star prospect to go to Louisville because in basketball, you only need a few of them to be a final four contender. If you could get if you could get three of them for total of three hundred thousand dollars and immediately turn yourself into a preseason top Tintin like that took good investment for a deed, as long as you don't get caught of course, but. It'll be interesting by the time you're listening to this by the way, like some new details could have come out. This is a case, a trial that's happening in a courtroom in lower Manhattan every day. Now new things will come out every day, but it'll be interesting to watch it unfold. They say it's gonna take about a month the trial to watch it unfold on a day by day basis. Because though you're exactly right Bill self Shawn Miller, Rick Pitino Mark Terge in Dana Altman aren't going to be called to testify. Their names are probably gonna come up in some form and. It'll be interesting to see in what form they come up. Let me tell you about seatgeek buy tickets. Online can be complicated, but it doesn't have to be not with seek, and that's because seeks searches multiple ticket sites for you that way. You know, you're getting the best prices, the best seats, the best value, find what you want to click Slater, like really just two clicks later you buy tickets is easy stuff. For instance, my wife and I about down to Atlanta about a month ago to see Jay z. and beyond say at Mercedes Benz stadium, and I got our tickets via seek. It took like a minute. Twelth row seats. Great prices had a blast by the time I the concert day of what I paid for those tickets on seatgeek just a few weeks earlier, like it tripled like the prices at tripled. 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Person to to replace Billy Donovan. It is not easy to replace a legend ask anybody who's ever tried to replace John Calipari UMass or Memphis, but Mike done about as well as you could reasonably hope to do. Been Florida. Now, three years, he's starting his fourth season next month. He's gotten to to insead ably tournaments what at least twenty one games each season elite eight in two thousand seventeen round at thirty. Two last season should be back in the NCAA tournament. This season top twenty recruiting class in two thousand eighteen got a top by couldn't class right now. It seems to be working out working out in a big way this up for the future and then for this season. Yeah. I mean, we're in the process of building out our top one hundred and one list. I'm geeking out way too much on this, but I expect them Jalen Hudson for sure. And then keep on Allen like those are both top one hundred players in college basketball. So you got to top one hundred guys off a team last year. That was pretty solid. Yeah. Florida should again be an instability turnament team, and then you bring in a really good class for for the year coming up and you beat out. Kentucky for Scotty. Lewis, Scottie Lewis, interesting prospect. He's been identified as an elite eventual NBA player for what seems like at least four years now, Mike white, his staff chased for a long time and to be honest Saint John's was in their real good because of where Lewis grew up in jersey. Mike Reiss coached his grassroots team, and there was just a natural connection Saint John's was in there tight. And just a quick aside on Saint John's, you know, they should be pretty talented this year, and they should be in my opinion with with their talent, perish. That should be a top three team in the big east and what's going to be a relatively down here for the big east. Let's say they aren't though, let's say they're okay. They're top five. Maybe they come a little bit short. Okay. You will. You don't get Scottie Lewis and say the next year you sputter I'm telling you it's just stuff like this. That can make a three to four year difference on a program. If you're saying Johnson, Newland, Scottie Lewis, it completely changes things for you and recruiting for the outlook of your program. They don't get him keep an eye on Saint John's over the next year to see if Mullen and his staff can can find some success despite that. And if they don't, I think not landing. Lewis might wind up being a key component to where things just pivoted a little bit. The wrong way. Meanwhile, Mike white beats out John Calipari for a top twelve top ten prospect. Scotty Lewis, I would almost think will be a one and done. He's interesting because he does a lot of things really well, but he's not a great score at this point, but very long rangy really smart kid think you'll fit in very, very well. I would think that when we do our top one hundred and one player's going into next season skied, Lewis would be on that list. I do have a lot of confidence in his ability to step into college and being impact player relatively quickly. So big gains for Florida, which also just makes the SEC again, just that more interesting. The league was really up last year. It should be pretty good again this year. If you can get teams like Mississippi State to end their incidentally tournament drought, Florida's still going to be good if Kentucky being the best team in the country this season, this is just good for the SEC. Overall, Kentucky fans obviously frustrated that you not only miss out on on a five star player and a guy who I would think would start for you k. next season, but you lose out to Florida. And this is from a recruiting standpoint, although white has been building a really good class. I think that the. The Louis commitment, it firmly establishes the Gators again as a as a premier player. Within the five star realm. Okay. Florida's beating out Kentucky for guys and Kentucky very much wanted Louis than I think that's extremely notable nationally from a recruiting standpoint. And yeah, listen, Mike, White's done about as good as you as you said reasonably expect. He gained really close to making a final four is going to the tournament two or three years. Even his first year was reasonably decent for for his entry point, make the tournament again this year he's done about as well as you could possibly expect. And that's why particular we targeted him as a guy who's next series at the at the schools have current health coaches, Mike, why does able to not even make win a national championship, but make a final four? Just keep Florida in the top twenty five conversation almost annually than yes, I think that it is inevitable that he will be down the path. Billy Donovan in that. He could be sought after by top by programs, potentially. Maybe even the NBA gives him a look down the road. But in the short term here, Florida is looking really, really good Scotty Lewis in the fold, and the gator seem to have locked up a top ten class at worst and potentially top-five class for twenty nineteen. Just real quick on the SEC. The league in general, not just Kentucky, but the league in general has been recruiting well in recent years, and you're starting to see the results of that like that leaks. Gonna be awesome this year. I mean, think about this variables got to five star freshman and might not even finish the top six in the league because Kentucky is is the number one in the top twenty five and one Tennessee preseason top five team bring everybody back from SEC championship team. I've got Auburn in the top ten, I think LSU's going to be tremendous. Bring back from out waters and add to five star freshman, Mississippi State is going to be good. I've got them in the top twenty five and one Florida. I have just outside of the top twenty five and one, but you can reasonably put him in and then. Vanderbilt's sitting there with, you know, two, five star, freshman Missouri's. Got John Porter Bak. You know, Arkansas. I don't know. We'll be very good, but they got a lottery pick and Daniel gaffer. I mean, there's some real players in this league now, and I think it's going to be one of the better leagues in the country. Like I think it'll be as good as it's been a long time. Yeah, it should be. It's been more than a decade since the SEC ranked as a top three league in Ken palm, it's got a chance to do that in particular, my opinion, because the biggies isn't shouldn't be as good. The big ten probably shouldn't be as good as given the big ten. A look while I was on paternity leave at trying to figure out how that conference is going to shake out. It's looking right now. Like it's going to be Michigan state a little bit of a gap and then kind of Michigan probably maybe produce. We'll see how awesome Carson Edwards is with the pieces around him anyway, that's pre-season stuff that we're obviously going to get to in the coming weeks as well, but but the SEC. Yes, it should be a major factor in income. I would be surprised if we got to the first week of March and the weren't at least seventeen in the conversation to make. The tournament, not necessarily that they'll get seven, but I think minimum seven if things go as they should with with the coaches, the talent they have in that league, yes. If you're SEC fan, a root for any of those programs, I would expect a pretty good twenty eighteen nineteen Jelcz to Devon down to Chester South Carolina. She has to Terry MFN Teagle. He's the legend. Remember to subscribe to the college basketball podcast via apple podcasts rated favourably five stars, nice comments. It only takes a few second. Surely you can find a few seconds day to pop over to apple podcast and give us a five star rating and leave nice comments. That's all we ask. We're going to be back on a regular schedule. Now. Norlander is off of paternity leave, and we will be doing one podcast a week in the preseason. And then once the season gets here, we'll be back to three times a week rock and roll. Thanks to listen. We'll talk to you next week till then.

basketball Jim gadoe Heidi norlander Kansas Louisville Brian Bowen Florida Oregon Scottie Lewis Alex Adidas SEC NBA Michigan Kentucky FBI Dennis Smith Billy Donovan Jim
The surprising connection between brain injuries and crime | Kim Gorgens

TED Talks Daily

11:53 min | 1 year ago

The surprising connection between brain injuries and crime | Kim Gorgens

"This. Ted talk features neuro-psychologist Kim Gorgan 's recorded live at tax mile high twenty eighteen. Traumatic brain injury or TV. I is a disruption in brain function caused by an external blow to the head. And when you hear that definition, you might think about sports and professional athletes since it's the kind of injury were used to seeing on the playing field. And this imagery has really come to define TV. I in the public consciousness, I myself to research on TV, I and retired in college athletes. I stood on Ted stage in two thousand ten talking about concussions and kids forts. So I have to say as someone who researches and treats these injuries that I've been really gratified to see the growing awareness of TB I and specifically the short and long term risks to athletes today, though, I want to introduce you to a larger, but no less controversial group of people. Impacted by traumatic brain injury who don't often show up in the headlines, I've come to recognize these inmates and probationers as surprisingly among the most vulnerable members of society. For last six years, my colleagues, and I have been doing research that has completely changed the way we think about the criminal Justice system, and the people in it, and it may change the way you think about those things too. So I'll start with a shocking statistic. Fifty to eighty percent of people in criminal Justice have a traumatic brain injury up to eighty percent in the general public in this room, for example, that number is less than five percents. And I'm not just talking about getting your bell rung. These are the kinds of injuries that require hospitalization. Most of them are the product of a physical assault and some of them are actually sustained in jail. All of these numbers are even higher among the women in criminal Justice almost every single woman in the criminal Justice system has been exposed to interpersonal violence and abuse more than half of these women have been exposed to repeated brain injuries. In this way, these women's brains. Look like, the brains of retired NFL players, and they'll likely face the same risks for demented diseases as they age the same risks. TBI together with mental illness and substance abuse and trauma makes it hard for people to think they have cognitive impairments like poor judgement and poor impulse control problems that make criminal Justice a revolving door people get arrested and booked into jail. They oftentimes get into trouble while they're in there. They get into fights. They fall out of their bunk. And then they get released and do stupid things like forgetting mandatory check ins and they get rearrested, statistically speaking. They're actually more likely to be rearrested than not a colleague calls this serving a life sentence thirty days at a time. And oftentimes these folks don't know why this is so hard for them. They feel out of control and frustrated so knowing that TV I is at the root of so many of these challenges the mission for a group of us in Colorado has been to disrupt that cycle to jam the revolving door, so working together with my state and local partners. We crafted a plan to meet everyone's needs the system the inmates in probationers by graduate students in this program, we assess how each person's brain works. So that we can recommend basic modifications to make the system more effective and safer and here when I say safer, I mean, safer not only for the inmates. But safer also for correctional staff in some ways. This is such a simple approach. We're not treating the brain injury. We're treating the underlying problem that gets people into all of this trouble in the first place. We do quick neuropsychological screening tests to identify strengths and weaknesses in the way, inmate thinks using that information we right to reports. One a report for the system with specific recommendations on how to manage that inmate. The other is a letter to the inmate with specific suggestions for how to manage themselves. For example, if our test results suggests that a probation or has a hard time remembering the things they hear that would be an auditory memory deficit. You math case our letter to the court might suggest that that probation or get handouts of import. Information and our letter to that probation or would say among other things that they should carry a notebook to record that information for themselves. Now, boast importantly is that I pause here to be really clear about one point this program does that minimize responsibility or make excuses for anyone's behavior. This is about changing long standing negative, perceptions and building self advocacy. It's actually about taking responsibility the inmates move from. I am a total screw up. I'm a loser to here's what I don't do. Well, and here's what I have to do about it. The system comes to see an inmate's problematic behavior as the things they can't do versus the things they won't do a match change seeing behavior as a deficit rather than outright, defiance, ease everything be settings. We hear from inmates around the country, and they right and more than anything. They wanna know how to help themselves. This is an excerpt from a letter from Troy in Virginia an excerpt from a fifty page letter, and he writes, can you tell me what you think of all the head traumas I've dealt with. What can I do? Can you help me closer to home? We have thousands of stories like this and smart stories stories that have a great outcome. Here's vinnie. Vinnie was hit by a car when he was fifteen and from that moment forward spent more time in jail than in school with some basic skill building. After our assessment revealed that he had some pretty significant memory impairments Vinnie. Learn to use the alarm and reminder function on his iphone to track important appointments, and he keeps a checklist to break LA. Larger tasks into smaller manageable ones, and with basic tools like that under his belt Vinnie spin out of jail for two years clean for nine months and recently back to work. What's so striking for Vinnie is that this is his first time off of court supervision since his injury more than fifteen years ago. He made it out of the revolving door. He says now I can do anything. I just have to work a lot harder at it. And here's Thomas Thomas has pretty significant attention and behavioral problems after an injury landed him in a coma for more than a month after learning how to walk his first stop court. He couldn't imagine a future where he wasn't in trouble. He now carries a calendar to avoid being held in contempt for missed court dates, and he schedules a break into his day every day to recharge before he gets agitated. And nobody knows the revolving door better than the first sitting at the front of the courtroom. This is my good friend and colleague judge Brian Bowen. Now judge villain was already on a mission to make the system work for everyone. And when he heard about this program, we saw the perfect fit. He actually sits down with all of his prosecutors to help them see that there's basically two categories of defendants in the courtroom, the ones we're afraid of oftentimes rightfully so. And the ones were mad at these are the ones who miss all of their scheduled appointments, and they blow through the best laid probation plans and charitable and believes that with a little more support. We could move people in this latter category maddening category through and ultimately out of the system. He proved that with navy veteran. Mike judge and saw the correlation between Mike's history of a massive seventy footfall and has long standing pattern of difficulty showing up on the right day for court appointments and complying with mandatory therapy requirements, for example, and instead of sentencing him to more and more jail time judge bow and sent him home with maps and checklists and handouts and recommended instead vocational rehabilitation and flexible scheduling for those therapies and with those supports Mike's back to work for the first time since his injury while he was in the service, he's repairing relationships with his family and just last month. He graduated from judge Bolen spectrum squirt. This program shows us the overwhelming prevalence of traumatic brain injuries and cognitive deficits and the accumulation of broken this in the criminal Justice system. And it highlights the extraordinary power of resilience and responsibility. And Mike and Thomas Vinnie. Even judge Bolen story. You saw the transformation made possible by a change in perception. And some simple accommodations all told in this program these inmates and probationers come to see themselves differently. The system sees them differently. And when you meet them in the community. I hope you see them differently too. Thanks, guys. For more TED talks to Ted dot com.

Thomas Vinnie Mike judge Ted dot Bolen Kim Gorgan NFL assault Thomas Thomas Colorado Virginia Troy Brian Bowen LA navy eighty percent fifteen years nine months thirty days six years two years
The Brian Bowen Sr. Story, Zion's Weight Loss, and More Corruption Thoughts | One Shining Podcast (Ep. 63)

One Shining Podcast with Titus and Tate

1:22:57 hr | 2 years ago

The Brian Bowen Sr. Story, Zion's Weight Loss, and More Corruption Thoughts | One Shining Podcast (Ep. 63)

"Today's episode of one shining pod is brought to you by us again, two weeks in a row, the one shining podcast, world tours happening Tate. It's it's happening. Yeah, people have seen this. It's out there. It said the world people were buying tickets at this point. People reaching out to us asking if they can get tickets from us. It's real. It's a real thing we we're, we are heading. I'd also say very humbled. The reason I just kept saying it's happening over and over it because I don't believe it. It's like I just have to keep saying it through myself because it shocking. It's happening, but it is happening. If if you have no idea what we're talking about in you're, you're one of those guys, you're if you're a Greg Oden type, you just listen to the podcast when you can just gotta pop in here and there you missed the last episode you you miss the social media, happenings, whatever Tate and I and Kyle collar you coming on the tour? Yes, Kyle, I am TV the house. I guess he is going on the tour. We don't know how how long he can stay on the tour. I think there's more the concern. Kyle has nothing to do with anything other than it's going to have to drive the rental car back to light. It's all about stamina. Yeah, drop it off at the hurt. Yeah, Tate. I get a fly. We hit a fly from LA to the mid west to college assisted drive and drive the great, you know, we could save thirty dollars if we rent from l. a. and drive it through the mid west versus rented a car. And the guy. Cows cow's done worse before he's fine. But yeah, we're going, we're going on a world tour of the midwest. We are going to be in Columbus, Ohio. At the funny bone on Friday, November second, we are going to be at headliners music hall in Louisville, Kentucky on Saturday, November. Third, we are going to be at the Bluebird in Bloomington, Indiana on Sunday, November fourth, and we will be at zanies comedy club and Chicago, Illinois on Wednesday, November seventh. So a few questions that I that we keep getting thrown at us day IRA. Maybe you don't. I'm certainly seeing these questions. A lot number one is like, why not? My city isn't what everyone's saying like, hey, dude, why not tear ho. Larry Bird played college basketball here. What the hell dude. Why would you not stop at Terre hope for me for the record? I did say we should go there. So I, I also agree. I actually I can't come up with a good reason. Why are we doing. First of all, we had very little to do with the point of this, the brass at the ring dot com came to us and said, would you guys like to go on tour to kick off college basketball season? We said, yes, yes. Where should you go? We said, well, the champions classic is going on in Indy the first week of the sea, like a kicks off college basketball season. We want to end up in India, some point, and then they're like, cool, we'll take care of it. And then when they came back to us like this was basically what had had been presented us, and I don't say that to like throw the blame on them. I just say it to say like it's their fault. Perfect. Yes, the Patino we take full responsibility, but you know, not it's not really on us. No, no. It all series as the answer is it's because we've, this is a trial run. We plan on doing this more often. We may or may not have sort of plans in the works for doing another tour in March. Maybe another one in the middle of the season as well. I don't know we we're kind of throwing stuff around and seeing what works. So it is imperative if you like our show, if if you like us at all, even if you don't, please come, please please come hang out with us because if this is a colossal failure than we are never doing this case. So that's pretty much it was like, this was the test run. This made the most sense to us given that I am from Columbus, Ohio, the beautiful east coast city of Columbus, Ohio. That is not celebrating Columbus Day to day Tate. Now I, it just made the most sense. So we're sorry, we're not coming to your place. Number two, we had nothing to do with the ticket prices as well. So if if you wanna complain about that again, don't directed at us. We are just basically showing up and doing a podcast, and that brings me to number three Tate which is people are asking. Like is this going to be the same show four times, what would we have in store? Or you're just gonna. Listen, you guys make the same, rip Patino jokes that you make on every show and talk about how much you hate Duke, but you secretly love them as all we're going to get. Yes, probably most likely possible does we. We don't even know. We don't even know at this point it's all we're going to make it work. There's so many ways that yo, we do know that we're going to have we other people possibly there. Possibly, who knows? No, not even possibly. We, we have commitments from guests. Verbal, we solved that you guys have heard off soft verbal commitments, the best kind. Yeah, we have. We have verbal commitments of from people that you've heard of that are relevant to the college basketball world, inner also locals at the places where we are going yet. That makes sense. So use your imagination there. We're trying to make it a fun show. I'm trying my goal. Listen, I, I'm trying to make this something that I would want to go to. This is something I do. I, if I can be serious for second take, I take pride in in the work. That we do, and and there are times when we when we tape a podcast and I get done with the podcast and I tell you, I say, I wouldn't listen to that bullshit and it really it really just ruins my week whenever we do that with that in mind, I'm we, we are very committed to making a show that like is worth your time is worth your money's worth your effort because we appreciate you guys and I, you know, I'm not going to promise that it's going to be the coolest thing in the world, but I promise that I will. We're not just gonna mail it in. So that's that's pretty much it. Is there anything else we should address with the I will say this. We are all comedy clubs, and if you do not laugh with us, I promise I will make you laugh at us and some capacity. That's that's one. That's one thing I promise by the way we should have. I, I just thought about this one thing we should tickets are available by the way, if you want to gets Goto at one shiny pod, it's pinned at the top of our Twitter account. Again, you don't need a Twitter account to look at Twitter SU. If you don't have one, just go go to their to that won't schone bud Twitter account, and you can buy tickets to each of the thing that the places I thought about this date we should put out a. Traffic. We should add listed more places so we can put like the sold out stamp on them and made them dislike. We should have made this look like a real world tour and like every international stop should have been stamped with like still down like we should have like an Istanbul, stop, said, bam, sold out, like no, God forbid, there's like one guy in Istanbul, listened to the podcast that he would try to get tickets, star, man, we're sold out. We've been sold out for weeks, but then like kind of makes us look like we're better than what we are. You know what I mean? What is look. Dockage is home down. That's where we should have had it sold out. It should Serbia. What he would of the year you and I should do a podcast, they're just just talk about how just remind people how he won. You're early gonna, be at nineteen years old. Let's start the show. How about that? We've been talking for ten minutes. We are going to start to show. We going to talk about all the new developments in the trial where you're going to talk about design Williams, a picture that is breaking my brain. We are going to talk about Kentucky's pro day. I have some numbers. I wanna throw Tate. There's there's, there's a handful of stuff. This is our last show. This is our last offseason show Tate. We officially shift a preseason next week and this is it. This is the last all she's in. Show. We plan on making it a good one. We hope you enjoy it all. But first Pearl Jam. All right. It is Monday is Monday evening Columbus Day to beautiful as. The reason I I wanted to time stamp this we, we are taping this on Monday evening, and the reason I bring that up is because I think we're posting this Tuesday morning first thing for for people, and they're probably going to be people that listen to this Tuesday evening Tuesday afternoon, maybe dare I say Wednesday, maybe I don't know. Maybe some people. I don't know. This is just I'm just throwing it out there. Maybe some people don't listen to our podcast. The second and gets posted, couldn't be me. I, I don't know what they're thinking, but maybe there are people out there that are like that. And I think it's important to time stamp because we just before we started recording this, there was a bombshell development of breaking news that is going to probably probably be fleshed out on Tuesday. And this is the news tape. It comes from one dick vitelle? Yes. A source involved in the at FBI hoops investigation told me there could be some testimony. Morrogh that can create a big nightmare for some coaches and schools slash stay tuned exclamation point at ESPN. That's it. News, news, news, news. That's how he communicates with ESPN. That's how he, he lets you know what he's up to just add ESPN stone. Okay. He's keep it up with things who is his source. It's Rick Pitino. Here's the because while we're on Twitter, what why we're talking about tweets from old people can can I draw your attention to the fact that ring between Rick Pitino almost between the brand is strong brand has already strong with Rick Pitino, Twitter Patino who we said, what two weeks ago we were done talking about him for a while, but I'll be God damned. If you can't. He just doesn't find a way to to make me want to talk about him. I can't quit him as much as I try he tweet. So he starts his Twitter account Tate. He's tweeting basically every single day. And by the way, as another aside, if you go look at Ripa Tinos Twitter account, I just I just noticed this today. He he for a while. He had a stretch there where he was tweeting pictures of himself at different practices. And yes, everyone of him at the garden saying, like man's mold, biggies battles because he loves it will big us. We love the biggies, love Rick, good job. He's tweeting all these pictures of places that he's visiting. And as I was looking at his Twitter account today, I realized that he's wearing the exact same thing in all. All of these pictures. He's he's where the exact same Nike jumpsuit with Adidas shoes, and these pictures were posted on three consecutive days. So for three straight days, Rick Pitino where the exact same close anyway, that's the aside. Well, it's hair. His hair was looking so good. He didn't want to shower. I don't blame him is the brand is stronger. This point he's been everywhere. He was at a Miami Dolphins game, Bearcats, Cincinnati, Bearcats practice, gym behind with Syracuse, orange people that don't know. He's been everywhere has been everywhere. Anyway is gone. As I said, he's been everywhere. He is tweeted. He was tweeting every single day and then and then on October third, Rick Pitino tweeted the following. I have never met or spoken to Morocco to my life. Thought that name was a Nike name until the story broke and he's speaking of Morocco. The Adidas guy who gave his testimony, two or testified in the struggle along with Christian Dawkins like all the Saint comes up and Rick Pitino name gets invoked in the testimony, right? Yes. So he tweets that and now Rick Pitino has not treated since state. And this was a man who tweeted like basically every single day since he started Twitter guy, he's not tweeden five days. So that's that's a roundabout way of saying he's only he's on. The lamp is going on here. Yeah, he's, he's, he's out of get out of dodge he using dig Vitel again as his mouthpiece. This is the perfect diversion, right? So if you get the to go out there and say, there was some other big scandal come out. No one's going to talk about all the stuff with code and bring up the Rick Pitino stuff because as we saw Bryan Bowen, seniors, dad was the one that was the big, you know, testimony last week and basically the revelation was he had all these numbers that dog is a promise him from all these other schools, but e you can't really validate those claim because those were all just word of mouth from Christian Dawkins. But the only thing that they could validate was the one hundred thousand dollars that they got from Rick Pitino in Louisville. So that's the only one that they. They really could nail down every everything else is circumstantial. And you know, it's kind of run of the mill. Not really sure if it's true, but little one hundred thousand dollars was the only thing that they could really put a pin on. And so obviously that's a big deal and now offer Patino is like we said, trying to get out trying to get ahead of the story, get away from the story or run away. I don't know. I'm sure he has the same swim. Maybe he has this. What's it on just aren't running at all times. You know what I mean? He's always ready to run. Here's the what if he just like po- he just pens. He deletes all this tweets. He posts just like one tweet. It's like I say, I'm shocked to hear this news. He pens it at the top of his profile and never tweets again. Shocked. Quotes quotes were this. It was a Merle code said this. If you ask Rick Pitino, he knows what happened with with Brian bone. He'd say, he doesn't know. He probably doesn't. So not really sure. That's, that's that big of a deal Christian talk and said, he does know some. He doesn't know everything dot, dot, dot, plausible deniability. And then Menashe. Manisa sued. Yes, sued is is as Nate. I think. During his thing. He said, I believe Patino knew something, but not everything. So those guys and it akin to just comes back to the thesis of like all of all of the the discussion surrounding all of this shit is that these guys that are have been implicated are idiots. They're morons. These coaches tell us nothing. It's like, hey, hey, guys, can you name some names and tell us what you know? And they're like, yeah, he knew something, but I don't think he knew everything and I honestly know if you knew anything. Can you something like American vandal? Yeah. Can you imagine the irony of like basically using plausible deniability to say, someone else was using plausible deniability? You know what I mean? Like. It's a, it's a head on a hat. We can't have that. That's that doesn't work that does not stand up in court dude. I, I love. I love the Dickey is the one tweeting about this do that. He's breaking it, but he also, he also throws in the qualifiers like there could be some testimony tomorrow that can creates a big nightmare for coaches schools. I don't know. We don't really know there could be and actually actually I should. I should fall it update. I actually was here. I was making some calls today because I saw this tweet and I was like, dang shocking. What is what is a Dickey talking about. So I called some people. I know that are, you know, just source, we'll call them sources, right? They told me that there may or may not be a hall of fame coach going down tomorrow is what I was told. So, yeah, may or may not one of those two. Do. So the give an eye out for that one. Is it already a hall of Famer? Is it you know the classic Jay, right? Qualifier future. Allah Famer. No it. Well, what they said was a may or may not be someone who may or may not make the hall of fame someday. Wow, in may or may not be so everybody. Everybody you know is gone. We are all worried tomorrow to see who it is. I mean, it could be you for all we know coach tide is going down Christian dog. Oh, man, that'd be fun. Although wouldn't that be? Would that be the greatest thing to happen to this podcast? If during those two months that I was like fucking around, pretending to be the Chicago state head coach, if I. I dunno, like as some sort of bit, I called a recruit and offer them money in the Heff behind wiretapped it, yes, and I got roped into the somehow. Yes, your your name number seventy. Five. What. One of my buddies told me when I was faking the Chicago state thing that I should have tweeted at. So the handful of assistant coaches that I played for state that are now head coaches, Archie Miller being one of them, Jeff bulls at Stony Brook in another. He told me I should. I should Twee at every single one of their recruits and try to poach them publicly just trying to push that. And I really thought it was a good idea. But now I'm glad I didn't because I wonder if that was impossible that I could be roped into this. Why don't anyway, since we last talked to? Yeah, they went to jail, you know, so that that's that would be really tough. Can I say last talk yet. Go ahead so no, no, yeah. Let me. Can I talk fuck? I just wanna say all the stuff that you were talking about. It was like the main news of this in his route. It's not really the main news. It's it's, it's like the, we just regurgitate the same things over and over. Again. Christian dogmas, dad says that he got offered all his money to, you know, go do an Adidas school and then you get offer to go to a Nike school. And yet it's the same story over and over. Again. The story to me based on the testimony is one sentence from a man who was joking, who happens to be the man, that's at the center of all this that you know has no idea. He thought he worked at Nike, you know, no big deal code said wind talking about the black market of basketball players and how deals fall through all the time. He said, I'm surprised there aren't more murders. It's a corrupt space. That's what the man said. I'm surprised there aren't more murders. It's a corrupt space and people in the headline. And then the headline I see the next day is like, you know, well, Bryan Bowen senior says his son was getting paid seven thousand dollars stipends. I'm like, well, that's not the headline folks. It's I'm surprised there aren't more murders, says the guy that's on tries. There aren't murders more murder. No, not not murders. I'm surprised it hasn't been for. For more murders like some murders have taken place that we got knows that we will ever hear about those, but just he's the president or more. What wait. What like, no, nobody in the room was like, hey, wait a second Merle. What? Hey, I'm sorry, Miro rewind. Did you say more murders. What. So that's all I, that was my headline. That was my takeaway, holy shit, dude. So that's incredible. That's the problem with the whole thing. It's like, we're, we're, we're all we're trying to write like the the, you know the the big piece, the journalistic piece that takes down the system at large. Let's write the law and order piece that's wait. Their murders that are happening. There murders happen in for. I shouldn't be laughing because what if they're really, I assume he was laughing when he said he joked, he was joking. He was like, I mean, honestly, I'm surprised there aren't more murders were, and then they're all laughing. There's no insead overlay people in the room also that that's the craziest thing about all of this that we're talking about is the department of Justice said, this won't be handled until probably the end of twenty nine thousand nine. And then the incidentally can come in and do a cleanup crew and everything. So none of this really gets resolved two years at the least did it the NCAA just past the isn't that part of the Condoleeza Rice saving college basketball wasn't that one of the rule changes was that the NCAA now basically let law enforcement handle their investigations, and then they just sit there and let everything play out and then they can jump to their own conclusion based on that. I think that like I think that's their thing like we're not gonna show up to these trials. We're not gonna really care what anyone saying. We're just going to wait for the for everything to get settled, and then we'll make our decis. As though we are just as informed as the FBI is because honestly we have like three people that can enforce our rules for us, and we don't wanna put all three of them on this case. Yeah, and they really don't actually, and we would rather go after Cleveland state Tate. Yes, we would rather go after, you know, NC stays so mad at. Yeah, we go out there and see state. That's what they wanna do. Poor NC state feel bad for those guys yet. Do Mark Mark immer is. Who do you think is easier to hate? I mean, they interest I was about, say murder, Roger, Goodell, but the answers Roger Goodell because more people watch the NFL though, but I don't know like who who has a lower approval rating from, I guess, people probably don't mind him or they're probably a ton of people like, I don't because most of the people that probably hate him or just people think players should be paid. Right. So they're probably a big group of people that don't think players should be paid. They probably don't actually have a problem with them, or I guess what just feels like that guy is I don't the easiest man to just you just doesn't matter what he's doing. Just be like, look at this jackass. He won't even show up to the trial. Yeah, he won't even go to the trial. I mean, that's pretty much the the biggest s pretty bad. That's the biggest knock on this whole thing is that we have the FBI investigating whether I mean, really it comes down to the crux of the whole thing is do NCWA violations deemed to be criminal. You know, like you're breaking criminal laws. I mean, that's where we're going to get down to, and most. The defendants seem to think that they're not gonna have to worry about anything as far as that goes because they can argue that out that the laws don't translate to to criminal laws, but that all the side is just like, I can't believe that incidentally is just sitting out on the whole thing. You know, like I mean, they really sitting out there just as the vault. We're probably more involved in talking about it more than they. We've talked about this, so it's not even just that they're not going to the trial like the fact that Marc Emmett is not there could get them. They're like one day to the court house one day. Yeah, that's bad enough. But to my knowledge, they haven't really released a statement. You know, they haven't. The nets. The difference to me between, I guess, immer and Goodell from going back to this terrible algae that I pulled out my ass. Is that Goodell seems like he's just brain dead in, but a holiest confront things like the national anthem thing will happen. Like put out a statement that is completely tone deaf and bad, and everyone's like urine, idiot, dude. But at least he addresses it. Mark just feels like a coward and he's like, maybe I'll maybe I'll just sit here in my office and hope everything blows over when I come back out and yeah, like no, Mark, we need. We need a statement, say something earlier up, but he just says the same. He's been said the same lines for going on twenty years at this point. Like it hasn't changed at all. Like anytime that you had is that they just say the exact same thing basically, hey, we we made up the sinkhole soon athlete, so you can suck it. That's pretty much what they. That's what that's what their answer is, but they say it in a very nice way, but that's pretty much how they look. We made up his things would have to pay these people and we're going to stick with it. So by SIA, sorry by and we have to just live with that at this point. And I don't know. I mean his dad, I mean Bowen senior that went on what I'm saying. Like basically broke down the entire system. I mean, we, we can get into it a little bit, but it's basically. He was at an under armor school. I mean, he was playing for an Under Armour school and our boy Christian Dawkins a known as many as a B-list hustler on the streets. He basically was like, look tugs, which I don't know if people know this, but Brian Bowen and this is not a joke folks, the man that ended Rick Pacino's career by committing to Louisville. The easiest commitment of his career goes by the nickname tugs, and he's going to play for Rick Patino at Louisville. It's perfect what that it. I think they made I didn't. They made up that his nickname was tugs after the fact because it's good. I don't. I don't think that's true. So I'm not even I only I can't even say his name and not laugh at this point living in a simulation. Yes, off dude with anything. Anything revolving Patino is a simulation you just what would be the funniest nickname that the player that brought down Patino could possibly be in someone's like it's like a writer for him. Everyone got together and would nicknamed him tugs. Then that's what they will. It's it's incredible. Yeah, but continue and as as Brian Bowen. So it's really it's a stress. You get two tugs from Brian Bowen. You know, like what? How did we get here? How to earn that? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not gonna get into what happened. But anyways, the family and all of his friends, they call them tug. So tugs at his private school, he's getting paid. So the five thousand eight thousand is what is what bone senior saying. And then he said at Nike team came in in offered eighteen thousand for him to come in. And then honestly, it just got into a bidding war. Now we're talking twenty five thousand and then from there does moves onto, we're he's sixteen years old when the starts in now we're getting to him actually getting college offers. And once he gets college offers, we have Texas that comes into the picture with offers rainy up to one hundred fifty thousand. We got Creighton that comes to the fixture also hundred forty thousand. Apparently Arizona are boy saw Miller. Of course. You know, as botch of course, apparently has won on a phone call talking about this and then Oklahoma state, and they go into a little bit specifics of what the offers are. Themselves. But I think the best thing that I saw was the Oklahoma state offer where is one hundred fifty thousand and then they had like a separate side deal where he had this eight eight thousand dollar a month, Mercedes that was going to be lined up for him and. All this can't be proven like I was saying because it was all coming from Dawkins is all word of mouth really is not. Nothing has really set in stone on paper other than the Patino Louisville offer that was actually cash through through Dita's, but just seeing the specifics of these offers into seeing these numbers that are thrown out into seeing how it really is the wild wild west. You know what I mean? And it really is crazy it. It is the market, you know, like Rick Pitino is at a tech saying, can you believe that you know, Brian bones going for two hundred thousand? Apparently you know what I mean? Like like, and then and then trying to say it was like a joke because I used to joke is a rumors Joe that we were just messing around just driving fund each other. Come on, we're, you know, we're committed to the Frank. Yeah, it's all right. Brian, bone senior is Brian bone. Senior is Mr. wonderful from shark tank. It got to the point where he's no longer just asking for cash. She's trying to get his cut of royalties and shit. It's like give me a stipend here. Give me one percent of ticket sales here. Every diet soda that sold at the Louisville gave us this year. I want fifty cents from that cut. It's incredible how elaborate stuff gets. It's great. Then the old wild west was just stuff. The duffel bag. That's it. Now now we're now we're dealing with cars and houses and jobs, and and what have you. It's crazy. It's crazy, and it's, it's all these schools that are just just the offers themselves are so specific. I mean, I think that's why, like last week, we did this podcast as as reading through the schools. I mean, I'm just laughing because I mean, we all joke in like, like I said, it's it's a fairytale so we can just, you know, we can make it sound. However, we wanna sound like Brian Bowen senior can you know he can make it sound over. He wants to sound, and that's, that's the fun we get to have here because at the end of the day, like it's all he said she said, and who even knows if it applies anyway, because we don't even know if it's. If it's, you know, a criminal act in the first place. So it's all in good fun. But you see Texas and you see these offers, and then you see Oklahoma state. Do you think about like the Boone Pickens thing? And then you see Creighton and then you say like there was a guy that was on staff at depaul assistant coach that he had some crazy nickname. I can't even remember what it is this point, but he basically got hired on by Dave Lehto and staff to then try to get Brian Bowen to come. You know, to the Paul and we joke on this program all the time about the pawing in Chicago basketball, and why they can't get the big kids. Well, they're were going for the big fish and now they're now they're implicated, FBI case lack of trying. Yeah. It's not because they weren't trying lados trion according to all of this, and it's just like it couldn't you. We joked about the beat of simulation, but honestly like it doesn't make any sense to me. How funny and fitting all the stuff lines up, like it's almost too easy that it does up like it does. You know what I mean? Like we joke about it all the time, but then you see the way these narratives and the who done it or the world's it gets played out on all this stuff. And even they're like, we're not trying to figure out who done it. We're just trying to see what's wrong with the system yadda yadda yadda, but still the puzzle pieces all come together. It's funny how clear the picture has always been. You know what I mean? There's nothing that's gonna come out where you're really shocking all it's kinda like, well, yeah, the kid needed eight thousand dollars. Yeah. I mean, I guess I guess the guy from a DS wrote a check in the parking lot and said for staff help, you know, like, okay, kind of checks, check Saudis, and Saginaw Michigan and didn't have much money was a retired police officer that was getting paid pension. You know, didn't have much cash and had a son that you know, had a value proposition and he's trying to cash in on it. And then you know, in the trial, they're comparing it to. If there were a bunch of scientists that you know you wanted to bring out a Silicon Valley to try to build some Labra thing or try to cure cancer, whatever they got recruited, they could get paid to go do whatever they could do a under that system. And then it goes back into the. It's like, wait a second guys. We're sitting on the sideline here. Come on, hey, guys, come on. I'm sitting on the sideline. We're gonna wait till the end of twenty twenty. You know, that comes back to what we were talking about last week when you when we were hypothesizing, whether Dennis Smith or I forget the other guys who are in the league that were mentioned in some of the stuff l. a. coup, that's a stink that they're that they're going to carry with them for the rest of their careers are not not even that it's it's, it's not gonna affect them. Now they're gonna make millions of dollars in. They'll be great NBA players. They won't on their own merits. It's not really gonna affect NBA crews at this point except Brian bone. I think I think this legitimately did affect his career and will affect his career, but the rest of them, I don't think it really mattered, but it goes back to the the greater point of all this and trying to. Figure out. Like for example, Marquel Fulton, Kyle Kuzma were drug into this in Collin. Sexton was brought back up in the sued when sued was testifying. They're the emails from Christian documents to sued. We're talking about what they're gonna pay Colin Sexton and sued was talking about how he's paying calicoes MMA and how he's paying more careful. And the question becomes like, does this change how we perceive those guys? And I think that ten to fifteen years ago the answer would be, yes. Yeah, that if if it turns out that Colin sects and and these reports are true, whatever, and Cowan sex and was getting payments from these agents whenever he wanted that would be his legacy. If this happened twenty years ago like that would that would be how everyone will remember him. He was he went on to do XYZ an NBA comma, but member of the time when he took cash at Alabama and there are two reasons why I don't think this is going to happen with these players. Number one, the net is being thrown so wide. That it's going to be impossible for people remember who did what I think when all of this gets settled, it's gonna. No one's get, or people are just going to soon everyone was doing and no one's even going to remember specifics. The second part is that nobody cares anymore Tate. The general public for the most part is on board with the idea that players should be getting paid anyway. So you know, like the bombshells that come up when you see, because because this the Kyle Kuzma Marquel Foltz thing is kind of a newer development, right? And when that when that story breaks or however however it works, it wasn't like that big of a breaking story. But when that headline comes across and people send it, you know, someone tweeted at me. It didn't have like the visceral reaction of like, oh, shit, Marquel Foltz and cow coups that big. That's a big moment because my mind, I'm like, no one, no one's really gonna care. Everyone's gonna be like, yeah, they deserve the money who cares and move on. So those moments that were looking for as you and I are sharks, just in the water waiting for someone. To dive in so we can rip them to shreds. It's not going to be the players. The only the only thing that's going to satisfy our hunger give us. Our pound of flesh are the coaches themselves and by the coaches, I mean, the head coaches out the assistance. We want the head coaches. We want the hall of fame head coaches, and there's no way that that's happening. So we might as well just make a mockery of this whole thing and just fuck around with like we have been doing right. Yes, exactly. And also they're writing the headlines wrong again, like they're right in the headlines. I Kau Kouzmin got eight thousand dollars while he was a Utah every single month. It's like, okay, cool. I mean, whatever that probably makes sense. I mean, based on his market, maybe that checks out whatever I don't care. But if your headline is Merle code says, there's probably should be more murders in college basketball. I wanna read that, you know, like that's a line. That's the story. The other, the other funny thing that's happening. So the the reason we're revisiting this by the way for people that are just completely oblivious to everything is as we said, Brian Bowen senior gave his testimony in some new players. Enter the game is, is how, whoa phrase it, right. Like we have all the names that we think are that he, he invokes some new names into all of this coupon Foltz being. He didn't specifically invoked Kouzmin fulls, but you get the point some some new names or Spradlin in some some programs are also sprinkling Creighton in Texas, and I, I'm losing track of like win all these things become relevant. All that shit. But anyway, the one thing we haven't mentioned are, no, I want to make this point. I before I get to the Oregon thing. It's it's funny, I, if you read these articles, all these schools are putting out statements and they're saying they're doing that. That's the other funny thing to me is that the schools themselves are like we did a investigation and. Nothing's come back. This is true. Yeah, we just we just asked her out and everyone said they'd never heard about any of this. So weird. Weird, really weird. We'll let you know if you think on our end SIA, it says, let's see here are compliance office conducted a review and did not find any information that substantiates the recent testimony Texas AD crystal Conte said in a statement that did not mention any names, we will monitor the information from the core proceedings and continue to cooperate fully. Should there being a request from the NCAA. Meanwhile, Creighton Creighton said it took the allegations very seriously, but is quote confident that coach, Greg McDermott, and members of his staff uphold the highest standards of integrity recruiting. The Santa Barbara spokesman in san- Santa Barbara is being roped in this casino, Barbara's head coach, Joe Pasternak was an assistant at Zona. Yep. He's now the head coach of Santa Barbara. So people reach out Santa Barbara school officials were not aware of statements made in court regarding pasternack prior to Thursday that they have not been contacted by federal investigators. So it's just a masterclass in like, what what's going on is? Is there a trial going on? Yeah. Into it. We promise the best thing that's so nice to just say that we will monitor, you know, I feel like that's how we've you west coast basketball, you know, we're just gonna monitor, you know, we'll, we'll get. We'll keep an eye on it. You know, you guys let us know how it's going and okay, should we swoop in now? Okay, we'll check it out like, you know. So that's the way they're approaching quote, unquote. The biggest scandal in college about, you know what I mean? Oh, sorry. Recent college. Basketball history. Yeah, you know. So there's thirty three. There are three things. I think we need to talk about from all this three little bullet points. We go through and quickly. Number one, Brian bone, senior, let Oregon off the hook. I don't know if you caught this. This was kind of a big deal to me because I don't. I don't think it necessarily puts Oregon, the clear. I mean, if you wanna put your conspiracy hat on, you could say that Oregon paid him off again. Hey, Mr. Bill, you check your balance, see how you feel about. He was like, never mind. Oregon's been great. Nike's been great. Just do it. Love. Calvin. That was interesting to me because the headline before we did the last pod was that Oregon was offering an astronomical amount of money like we kept searing the scene that word Astra, nominal amount of money being offered for Brian Bowen. And then Brian bone senior says, he doesn't recall Oregon, you know the organ, what's Oregon is that is that is that a school as Oregon school? So that's certainly interesting, right? Or the other drawn conclusions. I see. That's interesting. I think that, oh, I think Oregon offer two hundred thousand, and I think he just started that was actually the top offer, and then he just went down for like, so, okay, I'm not talking about Oregon because they just gave percent of this. Another conspiracy for you. I got a better conspiracy. He didn't bring up Oregon because Oregon offered him money. They took the money, and then they did the Okie Doke and didn't commit the Oregon, like they dropped the bag. Brian bone senior picked up the bag. Thanks. Oregon will be there in a week. Yes, psych, yeah, halls. Louisville like, hey, can you give me some money. Yeah, they all say the old sunau. Nice. Yes, that so now Brian bone, seniors, like trying to just brush it on the rug. He doesn't want anyone to sniff out. The Oregon thing in Oregon isn't going to come out and be like this dude took our money because then got you, bitch, you just implicated yourself. So that's my new conspiracy I'm going with. And again, that goes back to bag. Yes, that it's the that goes back to. That's why Merle code said the murder thing because he was like, the thing is this is the black market and deals don't necessarily have to come through because you're gonna go run to can't run to the police. Can't run anybody because it's just like, you know you, you would be admitting yourself as doing something wrong. You would be like, hey, I was. I was soliciting, you know, two hundred thousand dollars for my son services. You know what I mean? An Oregon be like we just gave us two hundred thousand dollars and then he didn't sign anything. So, and that's why Merle code said again, I'm surprised there are more murders goes again your week fats in high school. Like, what are you? Gonna do? Yeah. What are you? Can do? What are you go to homeroom teachers like, look, I just bought a dime bag and he. Did not give it to me. So what are we gonna do about this? She's like, well, you're going. There I say, hold on, hold on. I got it. Let me let me focus on this. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get this right. Dare I say that Rick Patino when Rick Pitino gets the baggy fumbled it. And when Brian bone senior got the bag, he flipped and tumbled it, yes, yes, boom. Tuggle decade is that is that some of the kids will tweet. It may be like, damn, you're cool, man. Yeah, they like this guy listens to the migos. Sky knows them. He goes. So the Oregon thing that was that was interesting to me number two, as I mentioned earlier, Joe Pasternak the head coach at Santa Barbara has now been I I can't. I can't. What? What are the word we're supposed to use? Your implicated introduced knows excited. It say cited cited because then it's like in court documents. So he was cited in a docu, the reference. Is that it? Yeah, he was cited documents. Yeah, that's the journalists memorial cited. Everyone's gonna use cited. You're you're the journalism major, I'm not. So I appreciate the help there argued so passer neck was cited in these things that is relevant to me because he's a head coach and obviously the head coach at have major program. He's a guy who lot of people probably don't even know. So it's not really that big of a bombshell, but it is interesting because he is actually head coach and full part of the frustration is that all the coaches that seem to be going down are the fog is that's why they're in place. That's their job. So they sign house was the fall guy, but now he's the head coach and that's a little spicy situation. And he was with book Richardson for people that don't put their so book went down with with their Zona, and he was his guy right by side. And I, it just seems like. I mean, I don't. I don't understand. I don't know. The answer is going to sit out. So even if it does come out that he did, you know, based on player number seven got this amount of money underneath the, you know, the waterfall, I of Joe Pasternak or whatever, and it has a cell phone receipts. The NCAA still is not gonna react or do anything they said until after the DOJ decides. So it's like even if like this, the school could just sit on this right? And just be like, well, I mean, prove it basically, and we'll see yet to moderate. Yeah, where does monitoring deal? They don't worry about it like just Dory. The the other. The other point I wanted to make I wanted to bring to your attention is the Creighton assistant who was cited again, I love. I love what you did there. That's a great site. Creighton assistant who has cited was Preston Murphy who is a Saginaw native. So I think that's the connection there is he's from Saginaw the bones from Saginaw Dawkins. Yep. He, he currently has his Twitter account locked. He still assistant coach at Creighton, but his Twitter account is beset the private. So do what you want with that information. I assume it has not been a pleasant week for this man. I assume at one point it was not private because a very smart thing for college basketball coaches using Twitter to like recruit people to set his account, the private, but that's what rat tastes. So he's got, he's got exclusive content from now. It's whatever. Plus, you know, that's his plus again as as someone pointed out to me on Twitter. One of the one of the fringe of the program pointed out to me that Creighton this, Mike, it ugly for. Creighton if you really think about it, if you peel back the layers in, if if you realize that Crayton is there's documented proof of Greg McDermott. He was paying a recruit basically recruits entire life. He was guide like shelter and food and clothing for basically his entire life. And then that recruit goes on to win national player of the year for Greg McDermott the NCAA previously, like didn't say anything about it. Now you gotta start to wonder if that's gonna come to light, and that's going to be a problem that I don't know. That seems like seems like a recruiting advantage of me. I don't know. Would it be? Would it actually be amazing house? If Doug McDermott was actually like Doug Murphy and when he was thirteen years old, they changed his name to McDermott and this was actionable. It'd be funny the greatest recruiting scam of all time. Yeah. What if what, if you're like. So it's legitimate. Like for those who don't know where we're talking about is Doug McDermott. Joke right. Coach. So yeah, it is dead dad was the coach, so it's a, it's a great. Yeah, that's why this is why we're going to comedy clubs on tour. Great people love. So what if what, if it was all you know, like it's a son, whatever, but he, he actually did somehow commit a recruiting violation with his own son. Yet there's some like very small by law that says, like if it is your own son, you must fill out this paperwork or like you must disclosed h. It's like a like an office relationship. You have to like disclose it to HR sometimes like some sort of rule like that. Like if you are going to recruit your son, you have to file this paper just didn't do it. And then that comes to light here or funny or like Christmas, like Christmas presents and stuff. He has to like put it through the double a. and say what he got him for like, follow through. It has to get approved. I would totally use that. If I, if I was a college basketball coach and my son was good at basketball and he's like in high school, I would just like not getting anything for Christmas and then just blame it on the NCAA. Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, you really do you wanna that new laptop yet. I said, I can get it for you. I'm sorry, Jason. No, but anyways, go get the Exxon. Yeah. It's good, some good stuff. I mean, I think credence in trouble, like you said, because again, we, we do see these. These schools are a little bit smaller. None of the oak of some of the bigger programs like Arizona, for instance, that may take bigger shots. You mentioned Oregon, and I just wanted to bring up Dana on what he said and which is like it's the old Kevin Keats thing that we saw right when all this stuff sort of popped out where he was like we had nothing to do with any of this, but he but Dana Waldman said the claims, the claims are all false. We don't pay players, we never will, and he's been all about that. And then like, you know, there was other people other coaches that came out and said, you know, he's all class in Albans, all class coach Hallman. One of the nation's most respected men's basketball coaches in yada, yada, yada, all that stuff's coming out. So I mean, like Altman seems like he's obviously not going to back down from any of this and they're just going to wait it out. Like I, that's where we're at with all of this, right? I mean, even if Creighton, even if there is some legit stuff in there where you know these guys are even an organ like Detroit Brown stuff comes out and they have like tangible. Evidence then steadily is not gonna act until twenty twenty twenty nineteen twenty twenty whatever it is. You know what I mean? So these guys they can just deny deny deny until like basically judgment day in in who says that even ever comes. So like it doesn't even plug your ears. Just earmuffs figures. Huma. That's all you have to do and like, and people buy it. People are like, yeah, of course, he would never do that. So one point I wanna make one more point, then we'll move onto something else because there is other stuff to talk about, including sign Williamson, a new development and design Williamson case it the music radicchio. So the the Brian Bowen senior is talking about the offers that he's getting. And it's my understanding that he was saying that these offers were from schools, not shoe companies. Do I have this right Tate that like you're saying by Creighton was offering me a hundred, but is from Christian Dawkins telling him that like dog is sitting in a room with him being like, hey, Oklahoma state said, they'll give you one hundred forty thousand a car, you know, for every single month and yada, yada, yada. So that's why they question can't verify any of any of the. No, they can't verify any offer other than Louisville because they know that the transaction happened, but everything else is basically Christian Dawkins being like, here's what they're willing to offer and the and based on just the the market itself, the numbers check out. You know what I mean with with how how they decided to do it, which he was like. I mean, I could have gotten one hundred fifty go to Oklahoma state, but we thought that haven't cooked Patino a guarantee him being a first round pick and we knew the heat, I, he fit right in the system at Louisville, slow, you know, you subtract fifty thousand dollars to get a better situation for your kid, and you're gonna make that up when you go to the NBA. You know what I mean? Like just that that way of like working in that mental gymnastics gonna work on your head, not to say that it is true or anything, but when you do it like that, you're like, okay, but again, he even said when he was given out the numbers, he was like, this is all coming from dock ins. It's not coming from the schools themselves, which is one what we'd like to call in the business plausible deniability. Yet again, as you said, where where where would the money becoming from? I guess, was my question that I was put that, you know, like obviously it's coming from the I understand how the shoe company deal works, where docking and says like, hey, I will pay you a hundred thousand dollars, but you have to go to this data school and that's how the deal works. And then he calls the data school and gets him on board and like that'll make sense to me. What doesn't make sense to me is the assistant coaches of the schools shell out one hundred grand because they don't make that much money and the money has to be coming from somewhere, but but but isn't there a chance that they actually do have that money like just fun with through their salary, which comes back to, you know, basically the schools do have some that this is the greater point I was going to make is that it would be impossible for an assistant coach to to go rogue. In these instances, right? Like assistant coaches can like I'm on board with the assistant coach going rogue theory when it's like ten grand or. Or twenty grand, even something like that. But when you're getting up to like one hundred thousand dollars, there's no way these assistant coaches can afford to. From for more presented on paper. You know, like these guys are making two hundred, three hundred grand a year, right? They're not gonna take a third or half of their salary and give it to one kid, especially if the kids the twenty-first play best player in the class too. That's the other thing about all of this. Is that what I thought we're not talking about? I mean, obviously I on is one guy, I it isn't, but we're, we're talking about Brian Bowen. You know what I mean? Yeah. He was a five star and all that stuff. But I mean that that's sort of the crazy thing to me. We just hear those numbers like that's every single year we're dealing with this. You know, there's there's a hundred forty thousand dollars on the line for all these guys every single year. That's wild. But I, I guess, like for me, it's like the the the the head coach is have to no, not that I didn't already know that the head is new, but that kind of proves it. Right. Like if you're if an assistant coach you, if you're a head coach, you can't. If you're Sean Miller, you can't be like book Richardson went rogue and just start throwing out a hundred grand to guys because there's no way that that could happen. The finances don't work out. Yeah, you're signing off on that. So it's like it's as you think about any sort of company, like if any, if any CO. Oh, they're making some sort of big deal like he's gonna see anything. Probably six figures like what's going on there. Right? Like it's the same sort of deal. If if your viewing all these guys like deniro in casino like we talked by last week, they're gonna see that deal and make sure like first of all, they're down for that and they're willing to do it and then they're going to move from there. You would think you would think? Yes. So. So I guess that is that is a legitimate thing that I think I'm gonna keep an eye out is that if these offers are coming from the schools, I think that's a problem that in a gift we don't. We don't know what's true, what's not. It's all whatever. But I think I think something can come of that because I don't know. I, I just caught myself assume and then say, might be competent and investigated stuff, but but there's a, there's a very distinct difference from the offers coming from a Texas or a Creighton or wherever else versus offer coming from like Nike or Adidas, and then the player gets steered a certain way. You know what I mean? And I think that's like a. It might not seem like it's that big of a difference, but that's a massive difference in terms of trying to determine what coaches knew what in and all that sort of stuff. Because ultimately, that's all we care about is what coaches, what head coaches knew who knew who know dammit, who knew who done it, who did this, who do this? Yeah, I, I just wanted to say like bridging over. You said that you watch the student athlete documentary, right? But LeBron LeBron opera dot? Yeah, I brought it up last week in Bazeley disgust over John shoe, but really gloss over the fact that probably the perfect example of what's going on here and what sort of the problem is because I think I know that you and I both went. Sometimes we looked at, you know, things in a in a positive light where we think like it can't be that bad. You know, can't someone can't be that ruthless with an eighteen year old. Someone can't be that you know short with someone and have really no remorse for it. And then you watch the documentary and you see the guy who's the head coach at Saint Patrick's. I'm not gonna say his name just don't deserve it. Honestly. Any. To see the way that he talked to these kids and it's like we need to win by thirteen. So I get my Nike bonus. And you know, he has a deal independently with Nike, and if these kids aren't wearing Nike yelling at them, and you see something like that and you really have to that guy, you gotta really reassessed the whole thing because you're like, no, there are some shitty people that are that are really playing into this whole thing across the board Ed. Here's the, here's a face. I mean that that guy is the perfect face for like, what is wrong with all this. You know what I mean? This is just gotten too far for this gotta to have an independent contract and to be force-feeding this stuff down these kids throats. I mean, it's it's not even about basketball, which is the saddest part right for me and you who love basketball. It's like this guy doesn't even care about basketball. He just cares about winning and getting paid by Nike, basically. It makes me sick. Makes me sick to my core. No, I'd screw that guy really worth. That was my one take away the documentary itself by the way, probably not worth watching. If you have listening, it's not. I'll watch it. Come on what? Oh, Cali. Yeah, you should definitely watch. Not that great with documentary, put a enough for me. That was my one take away. That was like, the one thing I learned was like, that guy sucks. That guy was cool. Can you believe that he signed a, like an like to let his face be shown in the documentary? I know I could not believe that I was like blur my face out if I'm that much of a shit Ed cameras. Yeah, look cameras into his locker room or is yelling at his players to win by more so he can get his bonus. All the players like just staring out like so desolate and said, it's like, man, this is horrible. Like caught it said it said he was the head coach and the principal at the school. You never what. Never want that. He was actually never basketball coach. She just seems like, you know, this looks pretty easy. I just do this. Have you? I don't mean to impose my thoughts on our listeners tape, but those of you who are listening, you have a child who might be entering high school and you want to you, can you know you're blessed enough to be able to send them to private school and you're shopping around trying to find the right private school to send your child to. If you come across a school where the principal of the school, the head basketball coach run like hell is my advice. Yes, to not go to that school? Yes, don't don't. They don't care about us students at all. I, I will. I wanna do a commercial, you know, because he's technically a Nike athlete says. So if he is ideal, he's technically it Nike athlete. So I wanted to do a commercial with all those coaches that are just like out of shape and shitty. But they're doing like athletic stuff. You know, it's just like just do it and it's like dropping the bags. I gotta breath like getting their cash and all those guys. That's what we need. You guys get out another tangent because. We really have to talk about. We really have to talk about Zion, but you're gonna give me on another tangent about like every time you watch these documentaries or you hear reports or you just go to literally any a you event. They're always like these guys that surround the players are like discussing his guys on earth, and they always fit like there's three three types of people that they are in their always one of those three types of people that are these kinds of the principal had. They're always the same and you're showing them. They're showing them at these th they were following Nick Richards at at his all these events that he had to go to and stuff, and those people that are just like popping up and just kind of they're all like middle aged faddish. It just like a towel on their shoulder, some wipe their sweat. Yes. And it's. I don't know that they all feel like the exact same day. Like if feels like the game has changed. Like I watched this stuff and it's different from what I was playing a you, and and we had the number one team in the country and maybe ever and we had the same shit like these types of people that are just kind of popping up and walking around and on us and stuff the the the way they go about their businesses change, but it's always those exact same guys. Yeah, just absolute losers. Yes. The biggest losers on earth that I know everything about sixteen year old kids, everybody in basketball. You know what I mean? It's like, whoa, let's let's take a step back there. The worst also your team species into heat. They were mentioned by Brian Bowen senior for offering some cash cut this part, Kyle. Let's move on. Right? It wasn't that a story. I don't know. Maybe not maybe not. Yeah, it was. It was impressive. Impressive, Nike, dude. I mean, it's good for you. Good for your brand. I'm telling everybody you got. I, I'm shocked to hear what you're saying. I'm shocked by these allegations. Monsour monitoring, just keep an eye on it. That's all I can ask. Just keep an eye on it. Hey, we have. We have a couple of days we have to talk about. Do you want to start with Drake and Justin? Timberlake, no-show show in Memphis midnight madness thing? Or do you want to start with Zayn Williamson picture? I say, let's save Zion for last because that's the best that's you know, that's for last. So first off Memphis, we talked about last week. It was announced by Penny Hardaway in Memphis contingency that Justin Timberlake the, you know, Memphis guy, obviously, partial owner of the grizzlies I think still maybe not and Drake, former John cale Perry fan now, apparently going back to Cowboys routes to Memphis fan. We're going to be there for the midnight madness and then it was all ally and then they weren't there and then they were not there sold out Memphis sold out there. They sold like eighteen thousand seats. The place was packed. Yes, sold out. And I've, I've done a little bit of research, not a ton. A lot of the crazy. You know, I gotta stay true to the brand, but I did do a little bit of. Research in. I uncovered that. It wasn't Memphis. Never officially announced these guys. We're going to be there. They just went along with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's never denied it. Like someone else announced that they're like, yeah. Would that be wild guy. So if someone tweeted at doesn't Drake would love to see that. Yeah. If someone wants to put out the rumor that Drake viral. Podcast tour Drake blocks, Memphis, Tigers. I am. I am not going into to deny that. Yeah, so that's the story. I don't know. It's interesting to me. But anything anything penny does is interesting to me what also penny they were re tweeting all this stuff like his account Memphis. They're like, this is the Toby didn't sell out any games for the past two years. So this is like the first sellout right out and there wasn't even a real game, obviously was midnight madness, oh, people were. They were. They were just jacking it all up there. Like this guy is played a real game. He's already, you know, the first sell out of the season, yada, yada, yada, all his excitement. And then I don't. I mean, he he, this had to originate from somewhere within their camp. I would, I would think, but even so it's great marketing because we're talking about it. You know what I mean? The vet that they didn't show exactly mid that they had an idea that they would come and who's to say that they ever thought that they were gonna come or they ever committed anything. But now you're all thinking, well, Drake and gesture migra supposed to be there, but they just didn't work out. You know what I mean and met with his fanzine and tell you that they weren't there for Jake Drake and Justin. Timberlake anyway, they were there this. The program is better, Chris Vernon on crisper, and it was there for the team. He was not here. Sold. One hundred dollar tickets is one hundred dollars ticket. My God, my goodness, Chris Vernon was there for the top golf at the after. Oh, yeah. Here's my conspiracy. Penny Hardaway bought all these players and then he needed to get the money to pay out all these players. He said, I got an he said, I got an idea how about we say Drake and Justin Timberlake, the basically the white prince and you know the the hip hop prints, we're going to bring them in everyone, which, yeah, exactly. Justin Timberlake, obviously the hip hop prince, you know, everyone knows that come on, it's Memphis. They love him. So you bring both those guys there. You lie said they're going to be there. You one hundred dollars, everyone pays your sell out. And then now we have a budget you you. You were asking where the budget comes from for these assistant coaches. There you midnight madness with Justin, Timberlake, Drake, tagged on, even though they're not going to be there, but you just pull them last minute, say, sorry that can show up. There's S-Class calling the cops in your own house party to make rent. Unbelievable, beautiful, beautiful. Never mind need. I remind everyone that we still have no idea. If penny Hardaway's a good coach, we have no idea what offense. He runs defensely Rudd's his thoughts on a rotation, or is the whole Diane gonna play. He gave Noida, but he's already. He's already outdone tubby because he's already had a sellout crowd. So he's already ever be the guy that week now he's never going to be a good guy like he will be the bad guy of every week as far as I'm concerned until proven otherwise, speaking of tubby I still haven't. I still haven't got a good explanation. The the Memphis fans are doing one hell of a job trying to justify the coup that has to get rid of tubby Smith. And I just me saying that has already pissed a lot of Memphis fans off the just pause. The podcast and heard are forming their tweets to me, but I'm not saying Toby was great a Memphis. He definitely was not. He was not a good coach of Memphis, but but they're kind of gas lighting what happened with and and gave the guy two years. And he was like better than the program. He inherited like passengers. Last couple years were terrible, gin and then tubby took over and kind of like wasn't worst was slightly better. Maybe there I say, and the now Memphis. Like you don't understand the tubby Smith era was one of the darkest eras of. It was like the like you're talking about on like he's coming. The games does. Yeah. I don't know. It's just it's an you only got two years. Like I mean, I don't know, maybe give them more time, but the point is like anyway, you try to slice it. Memphis fans just be up front with me. That's all I asked. You can say, whatever you want, we all know what happened. You saw the Penny Hardaway was sitting there. You saw the Penny Hardaway you saw the James Wiseman was coming up the ranks. There's going to be the number one recruit, you know that pennies is guy. You know that tubbies not recruiting Memphis that will. And you said yourself, we, we just got, we got a fire tubby get penny here so he could fix this situation. That's all it was. That's what happened and then they, that's what they did. And then now they're like gaslight in the whole thing and be like, well, now hold on. We gotta you gotta understand something about Toby Smith. He was the worst coach never had. Hey honest, just beyond it's it's good for highpoint basketball. Can we? Can we talk about the big story. The biggest story of the story that you're going to talk about, and that is the misery of Zaire Williamson and whether or not he is fat or not. Should we get cow to play the music? Should we start the tradition play the music. Oh. All right. Did you one hundred? Yeah, I've just this is this is something that is like a personal. I don't even know like for both of us. I think this is something that we're so intrigued by just a story line and just the the pictures and just I mean, there's doesn't quite like the mystery. This is like the JFK assassination for us and it is it is the mystery of is on Williamson fat. We've asked a question we've looked at pictures, we, we've done the research and today this Monday, it was tagged under the tagline, Monday, motivation for all you people out there that are on the social media's Zion. Williamson looks absolutely ripped up and not fat fat, not fat, and I don't know about you, but my head almost exploded when I saw the picture just like all the veins popping out of the man's body. I don't know what's going on in Durham, but something's going on. I mean, design is not fat anymore. I think it's official, but I also I, I don't know. I don't know what to do. I'm. I'm just stunned at this point autoshop so nice couple of things. One he has. He has no legs in the picture. I don't know if you noticed this, he's wearing black tights, but then they fade into the background. So we're not really sure what his legs with like. So my theory is that they didn't wanna Photoshop veins on the legs, so they dislike. Too much worry, black too much work. Black amount? Yep. Number two, I in someone I re I tweeted something about the picture and someone respond to this and really got me thinking. So in the pictures for those who haven't seen it, he's he's holding a a rim in one hand that's like supposed to have been shot like he shattered the the basket on a dunk, and now he's got the rim holding one hand. He's holding into deflated basketball that he crushed in his other hand, and someone respond to the picture in it was like pretty eye opening for me, and I think I'm on board with this theory tape. I think what happened here is Duke deflated the basketball. Oh, and had Zion just pose as though he crushed deflate gate. Yeah, I think that's what I think is this is the deflate gate. I think that's exactly the way. Picture and you're like, holy shit. This man just crushed a basketball hand, but I don't think that's what happened. I think he, I think it's Deflategate situation so theory and we're back at square. One is fat because they've Photoshop the muzzle. I will say, though this, this got a reaction out of me. I said, I said, I'm laughing because the phrase that got a reaction out of me could be taken a million different ways, especially when I'm talking about do. Yes. Got a reaction out of me. Never mind. I said when we first started talking about his, I, in fact, I said, I brought up the de'andre eight and picture when he was at a zone in the red blue scrimmage where he dunks, he flexes every muscle in his body is popping out of his arms. And it's like every single muscle just shot up to the top of his chest popped out of his arms. It was insane that picture, I'll never forget seeing that picture for the first time. Right? And I said, I need that picture from Zion because I haven't seen it. Yes, he's fat. Yeah, that's why we haven't seen that was my theory. Yes, this is that picture Tate. I saw the picture it came today and now I just I don't know. I don't know what to think anymore. I'm shook. I think we were wrong. Yeah, I'm shook. We're Bill shook, but I, I don't think that we were wrong in July. I don't think we were wrong in August. I don't even think we were wrong in September. I think we're been wrong within the past three weeks. Which points back to what's that Nike basketball about? What's you know? There's a lot of Nike influence there. This guy's all he looks ready for his, you know his full, oh Nike, shoot the. Thing that upset me about this. LeBron James at this exact photo shoot, and like verbatim the exact same photo shoot. So I'm just like, Zion, you know, LeBron's could be upset LeBron's Duke affiliated. So you can't. You can't take his stuff from him or especially with the in the Nike, you know world. I feel like he's already causing some problems for himself at this point. So I'm worried about Johnny. I'm glad he's not fat, but I'm worried about, you know, he's put a lot of pressure himself. He's basically saying, I'm LeBron I'm at Duke right now, and I don't know Titus, that's that's a lot of pressure. We'll see what either way is it? Didn't you say that when Carolina was recruiting him, they offered fill Ford's. Number twelve? Yeah, could wear it. Yeah, that was like his things he wanted to wear. Number twelve? Yeah. And then he wore number one. Why is he wear number one? Well, it's called. It's the Harry jails package. You're number one and we got to do not nowhere surprise. Who knows we so full disclosure Tate and had a plan that we had formulated when we first brought up the Zion fat thing, we had a we. We came up with a plan where the two of us were going to offer a challenge design Williamson to see if basically a body fat percentage challenge whereas Tate. And I thought that we could have her body fat percentage below zion's. By the time, the draft combine came around and he got tested. I was pretty confident I could win that. Like not that I'm in better shape than him now, but just that by the time. April. Yeah. Shape. He's not going to change his body at all. He, he's like, no, this is my body. I'm good. I don't need to change anything. And I thought maybe I could just start myself get liposuction or something. Good to go. By the time. Right. That's actually why Titus was coming to LA. He was coming to get liposuction to start designing. So a lot of the stuff is really been pushed back because, yeah, Dan, I very, hey, listen, I, I am actually the challenge I'm saying we're not doing the show until another picture comes out where he looks doughy because I'm. This is terrified me looking at this picture. Yeah, I I I've had it pulled up on my screen the whole time. We've been talking same same. I just x. out after I got my last point, I can't handle it. I I just can't believe that he is what he is at this point. But I mean, I, I got it. No, whatever. I got great news for you though. Because first of all, there's going to be a moment where we're gonna realize ci- fat, like he's gonna come back Christmas Christmas break, December twenty eighth when he comes back from Christmas break. That's what I'm saying. Exactly. Yes. The Kennedy Meeks. The, it's not dead yet. In fact, I would. I would argue that this feeds into our is Diane fat narrative of like make this a question all season. That's unanswerable because it was so obvious that the answer is yes. So now it's actually a debate in my mind. It was never even a debate now it's fun. We get a debate it, but if if God forbid that debate goes away and we're putting debate to bed Tate. I got great news for you. The Kentucky Wildcats held a pro day where they invited all the scouts in to check out. So it's not a distraction during the season. We don't want the scouts coming all my practices throughout people. Forget John Calipari invented having pro scouts come to practice, and he said, we're gonna. We're gonna do away with that. We're gonna. Have you come for one day? You're going to see all our guys, my kids, these kids. Yeah. No, they're my guys right now, right? He got. He loves it. Anyway, the the the, they did all the testing that you do at the combine and the results are in Tate. Excited about the say, yeah, I just can't believe that this is still happening, but I'm so happy for coach cow. He's doing a great job. So staying out of the headline we start, there's a few things to take away from the Kentucky pro day results. And let's see here. Do you want me to save the Brad Keller party stuff for the end? Yes. Say, say for the please, please, please? Okay. All right. So number one, Tyler hero is the fattest guy on the team at twelve point, four percent body fat. Wow. This is a problem. Yeah, he's like their best player entire team. Yeah. I mean, he's like the best place. I don't know if he's actually their best player, but he's he's excited about. Yeah. He's a, what does he like? Six, five shooting guards somebody. Yeah, and he's twelve point, four percent body fat. He what? He's six. Five like one ninety five and he is twelve point, four percent body fat, which is not good, which means he has like no muscle because like one hundred five isn't that heavy for its kind of normal actually for six, five guy basketball player. And yet he's twelve. You're saying he has no muscle and as it turns out, yeah, he actually does not have any muscle. He did to one hundred eighty five pound bench press. You did two reps so voluntarily or you're just like, I'm done. I only do this. That's on Kevin's. I'm Kevin do this. Nice. Okay. While there's this Johnny, David, who's a walk on, he's the the lesser known, walk on of the Kentucky basketball team kid named Johnny David. He is. Let's see her. He is taller without shoes. Quasi green. He is taller with shoes, quality, green. He weighs more than quality green. He has a bigger wingspan a bigger. No, not a bigger. Yeah, a bigger reach his body, fat percentages, seven point three, six quality. Greens is nine point four, five, his he his hand. Length is eight point five quasi grains of six point five. Meanwhile, Johnny, David. His no step vertical is two inches better than quality. Greens. His maximum vertical is a half inch better than quality grades his bench, press bench, press one eighty five, fifteen times quality. Green did at three times. They have the exact same lane agility time, his three quarter court. Sprint is faster which Ed they play like Johnny, Johnny, David guard. So I'm like, what? The hell? Yeah, Mexico action. When it's quite a green going to transfer. This is a problem here. We're still waiting on the quality green thirty point outbursts that John galloper he promised and then say tournament last year I I still I still believe at Georgia state. He could do it. It's coming. All right now time to get to the Brad stuff Brad. So first of all, Brent Brad's body fat is all I should say, Kentucky as a whole kind of fat. If we're to believe these numbers, that's the new question to you is is Kentucky fat because re Travis. Has the best body fat percentage on the team, and he clocked in at six point, four, four percent, and he's a big guy big is you're not supposed to have the best buy fat percentage, you know? No, but he is in shape. He's in great shape. So six point, four should not be the the top body fat on a division one on a national title. Contender there should that shouldn't be the number one, no, six point, four. That should be like almost the average. Not really, but close anyway here, here's the Brad stuff. Brad has breads. Height was shoes is five fee, eleven and a half inches, which is tough. Like I can't believe you didn't get the Calipari bumping go up to six feet on that one. Yeah, he's probably about that. He's I can't round up for me that hit him on his wingspan is five, eight and a half was wingspan is three inches shorter than his height shoes. That's tough. Do. That's unbeliev. That's really, really tough. I don't even that's possible what? Okay. Next lot come on bread. It was his very, and while he he finished one, two, three, four, a finished fifth on the team and bench press reps though. Oh, so he writ. Yeah, he seems like a lifter. He seems like he's in the gym. 'cause he's got the short arms. Yeah. Yeah, that's why I hope you know his vertical so bread, Kayla Perry, his his stats are basically the exact save is quality. Green says, well, by the way. So that's the quality green update is that according to the Kentucky pro day numbers like Wadi green is Ethel as just as gifted as the to walk ons for Kentucky, the to walk on guards, and they're all editor and they're all declaring for the draft this year, no matter what the sea now, they're all their names in the draft. I love that they make the walk onto the pro day thing to, oh everybody, everybody NBA. The dream is alive for everyone. Okay, bye. I love it. I mean, I would be I would. If if that happened at a house, I would just I would fake diarrhea or something is a great excuse to get out of things. By the way, people ask me all the time like why? Because it my in my book that I wrote a lot of diarrhea stories and they're like, they have dude, you had a pretty messed up the Justice system. And the answer is one. Yes, I did. And we, we covered that last week when I was talking about my nutrition where I've just choked chocolate shakes, whatever the hell I wanted. L. but to it's a little pro tip for young out there. If you fake diarrhea, you can get out anything because no one wants to hear the details like, sorry, boss laid ahead, diarrhea. Surely don't want to be around your like your rancid asshole. Why? While you have diarrhea like just get away from me, it's pretty much the response to that. It's like, well, thank you for telling me that I did not need to know that, but you can see later. Yeah, perfect. There's zero fall. No-one. No-one has ever followed up on diarrhea. Never questioned, dislike, gross, just to get to work, we'll save that exclusive. Kyle can't make it in Chicago for the tour like diarrhea, unfortunately. So he could not be here, but he said he sends well wishes. I've one more thing before we get out of here tonight is secret scrimmage season is upon upon us by came you. Yeah, this is the time when we have all the secret scrimmages in the world. And the biggest one just came out that I'm excited about and you probably are excited as well. North Carolina is going up to the defending national champions, Villanova Saturday, October twentieth. To scrimmage, Jay Wright and the wildcat I love it. I'm excited the twenty sixteen title game. Let's can be happening grade secret scrimmage, and people that don't know. You can't have media. They're basically the only people that can be there, the coaches, the players, the officials, obviously. And then there's this weird clause in the instability. It's like like basically like influential people or something like that. And I want to figure out how we get on that list so we can go to. These can get on that list. We can get on that. That's right. Yeah, we gotta figure that get on that list. Yeah. Come on NCWA. Villanova redid their redid their facility, right? Yes, yes. Are they playing so they're gonna play all their home games there? No, I hope so. I think it is the plan. I think the I feel the final four. And I mean, obviously that was so long ago and my brain is slowly melting away, but I feel like someone was telling us that it was ready for the season, but I could be wrong about that because I, I got that. We had that and the Chicago stayed the Paul. There was a bunch of stuff going on with with the Rina's, but I think they did say that this year that they're ready to roll. So that'll be fun. The. Yeah, the that would be awesome. I won't Villanova to play on canvas. It is as always like a little bizarre that the best program in college basketball, the last five years that plays in the has has a campus, but generally played in all the time. Yeah, I want that. I want them to have a home around. That'd be awesome. All right. I got a couple of things before we go. Let me see. Let me let me put them in were, oh, explain this. Did you see the Pittsburgh MAC, Miller thing explained that to me what Pittsburgh metro thing? What was that? Did you see the video that the pit basketball team put out? No, I all McGown cable capable is undefeated. This point he is trying, so. Okay. So he's around. I love it. I'll explain it to you than you explain it to me. Basically, I deduced stills like MAC, Miller, tribute video, where like the players like once park and they were like lip synching. I believe it was probably a MAC Miller song, but I was trying to understand what the connection is like MAG Miller from Pittsburgh or something. Yeah, he is. Rostrum records was Khalifa and MAC Miller. There you go. Yeah, yeah. Through there was something. Yeah, I knew it was one of those things where I was like, I know this is cool. I just have no idea why. Yeah, it's it's just a capable is really cashed in on on making Pittsburgh. Cool. Which I think has been great. Like they got peppers. It's the weirdest thing, isn't it? Yeah, I had. I love it so much. I'm so it's just weird that the pit, the pit basketball brand is cool. When your last three coaches were Kevin Stalin's Jamie, Dixon, ten Jalan like the three most guys you could possibly ever of? Yeah, never. Yeah. Yes. And now pitch a cool brand is very bizarre. It's I'm not prepared for this. We should try to pitch a show where we just go like show video content that Pittsburgh makes, and we show it to those three coaches and we'll get their reaction. And that's all it is like a five minute segment, just Jamie Dixon be, who is that? That's not even cool. Been Allen Billy, and then Kevin stallings, trying to fight us to get out of his house. Perfect. One more thing I was digging in the trash. I, I promise not to do it and I did it. And I, I don't know, actually folk it, I might do it again. I looked up recruiting stuff. I know I'm, I'm not. I'm not proud, but it felt nice because I was I was looking up the penny thing and I knew they had James Wiseman coming in probably. I mean, James Wiseman narrowed his list down to five. We don't know where he's going, but come on, we know what was going on. And then I was wondering like just penny have a plan after that is, is there like another guy that he knows it's coming through the ranks? And I think there is actually there's like another decent player from Memphis. That's that anyway. So I started looking at a recruiting stuff and a couple of things jumped out to mutate. Number one, are you aware that the Greater Milwaukee area has according to ESPN? They have the number four junior in the country, and they have the number one and the number three sophomore in the country are all from like Milwaukee area. There? Are they all different schools? But. So does seem surprising, Joe. This is Marquette territory. Yeah, the number four team and the ESPN BPI preseason. Yeah, yeah, vegan if you can lock it up dude, that's insane. Marquette's going to be number two in the BPI here in a couple of years. Going on this climbing up the ranks. Care. Then the other thing I wanted to give a shout out to this kid and then within we'll, we'll wrap this up a kid named Nico Manion, who is a commit to Arizona. And I think he's like a top ten recruit. So Arizona, Arizona got a commitment from a kid named Josh green recently. And it was funny because obviously, all this FBI stuff's going on. And then they landed like this five star guy from Florida. And as we said before, it doesn't really matter what the story is. Every time Shawn Miller Orleans a five star guy for the rest of time. It's going to be funny in some way. Yes. So he lands that. I started like, dig it. I was like, I wonder what Arizona's recruiting class looks like an I come across his kid, Nico, Manion who I'm looking at up now. He's number eleven in the class according to ESPN. He's he's a senior. Do you know of this kid? First of all? Yes, I know the name. I mean, I don't know too much personally, judge Corinne news new with his commitment, five, my my, my demands to our listeners to you to Kyle to everybody. Go watch this. Kids highlight tape or whatever, whatever we called mix tape, just just he is. I almost don't want to spoil it, but I'm going to. 'cause you're not going to do unless I tell you to. He is a six, three pale white, ginger dude, who is nasty shit. Yes. And I, I love his game so much, and he talked shit because you have to because when you're a short ginger playing basketball too high level, everyone you play against. Thanks, you suck and is trying to go at you. So yes, you're going to have a chip on your shoulder. I love him and he's, he's, he's nasty as hell, dude. So I'm very excited for this. I love that. I mean he's up with the south park generation too. So that was even tougher to go through the whole gender thing. So I mean, this guy good for him that he's reading it up. I'd Josh grease. He's absolutely nasty. He's yeah, I didn't. I got handles. He could shoot, dude. I'm so excited for an again. I, I don't ever really look up recruiting, but I should do that more often because I found a diamond in the rough. I'm very excited to see what happens with this kid. So and Josh, Josh green is he's a Australian kid, right? He's from Australia. Is he? Yeah, pretty sure. Or like maybe he's originally from our show. Remember he he like said before we gotta kill an offer. That was his dream school. So all these people were trying to tell me new Carolina. I'm like, I don't know, much guide on these going to Carolina. Then our boy Shawn Miller came with the sack and and locked it up. So congratulations to the Wildcats had done it again while bags while begs done it again. You said Josh Greene's Australian, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you have me confused there you you're thinking about Nico? Yes. All right. Niko is now show you know he didn't. I don't care about John. I don't care about Josh green screen. She's a relevant to me. I'm in love with this. I'm in love with this ginger who like just, I don't know. He's nasty as hell. So that's, that's my. That's my recommendation. Everyone go, listen that you got anything else state. No, I don't. I I'm, I'm happy to be back and then you're coming out. You're about to be here. You're about to make the long drive officers is over. They everyone for sticking around. Listen to us throughout the season. I've said, I, I think ended every podcast last like five weeks they ended up. Are we going to two week not next week, but very soon very soon. We're transitioning two weeks. That's my understanding. It's a transition. If we worked, we're, we're going to monitor it. We're gonna monitor the schedule and see what we wanna do before. You know, we're gonna keep an eye on it for sure, for sure. Yeah, but that's it. We're gonna start doing pre-season stuff next week start looking ahead, stop talking about nonsense like a Drake and Justin Timberlake, and I'm not gonna promised. We're going to stop talking about the trial because as Dickie v promised, there is going to be a bike bombshell, so we'll probably have to cover that. But yeah, the the preseason officially starts next week. Thanks, everybody listens. Check out one more time. One more before we go. Check out our our tour information first week of November we, oh, the other thing I forgot to mention at the top. We are going to the champions classic. We are going Indianapolis. A lot of people were confused. Like, why would you like basically circle through Indianapolis, but not go to Indianapolis? And the answer is we want to go to the games and just basically hammered, and we don't wanna like have to worry about doing a show or anything like that. We just want to go meet people and have a good time for the champions classic. So that's why we're not doing a show in Indianapolis, but we are doing in Bloomington. So if you live in a d just drive, it's the what? A twenty minute drive. Yeah, about twenty four. So that's check out. Check out all that stuff. Check out. Yeah, check out that stuff. That's it. Saved the crew by.

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04/24: The second federal trial has Christian Dawkins on video accusing Arizona coach Sean Miller of cheating to get players

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

59:06 min | 1 year ago

04/24: The second federal trial has Christian Dawkins on video accusing Arizona coach Sean Miller of cheating to get players

"There. It's scary. It's Wednesday, April twenty four two thousand nineteen welcome back to the CBS sports. I on college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss camouflaging. An leaky black men norlander is here with me. We're recording this Wednesday night because norlander has been in federal court each day this week where the name of Arizona coach Shawn Miller was brought up and not in a positive way on Wednesday FBI recorded videos were played mardi blazer was on the stand. So there's a whole lot to get to as it relates to what's happening in this federal courtroom in lower Manhattan. But norlander, let's focus on the big headline right at the jump Christian doctrines on video talking with Marty blazer in to undercover FBI agents. He the subject of Shawn Miller comes up. How does it come up? What does it mean? For Shawn Miller. Is there any way it's not bad news for Sean Miller? There's a slight potential that it's not bad news. I mean, it's more negative headlines about Shawn Miller. I mean, they are his name is on multiple national major websites in relation to this. How does it come up? It comes up because Christian Dawkins is trying to get his management business off the ground this June six two thousand seventeen he is on a yacht. In New York's battery park does not have any idea. What is actually happening here, obviously? And he starts talking about Sean Miller because as he's trying to get this money, and he is going to get the money from these angel investors who are undercover FBI agents. He is explaining how he is develop relationships with college coaches, primarily a lot of assistance, but in doing that and using former South Carolina system in Oklahoma state assistant Lamont Evans, who has pleaded guilty in this case and was formerly charged interested. Then starts to getting into how bigger schools, bigger coaches are really the ones that if you're going to be paying monthly stipends, if that's even the proper term here to these coaches, you need to have guys that are bringing in NBA type players annually. And so then that's how he gets into the Shawn Miller stuff the book Richardson's stuff, and where he darkens again, speaking on this video not from the stand. But on the video starts talking about Sean Miller, and how he needs to be involved with everything in the program how he's talked to Shawn Miller. And then although there is no explicit statements that tie Shawn Miller to paying his players. It is in any common sense interpretation of what he is talking about. It is Miller being involved as far as dockings is concerned with some illegalities when it comes to recruiting the big question that lingers parish. And I'll toss it back to you right now is whether this was dock ins, saying some true. All truths half truths. Or if a lot of it just wound up being bluster as in this moment, he is meeting people for the first time, the undercover officers who thinks are real investors for his company and trying to just present himself to be larger than he actually is within the world of college basketball. So at one point on video Christian dock and says Shawn Miller called me a week and a half ago and said I'm taking care of everything myself that is in relation to the recruitment of de'andre eight, and according to Christian darkens on this video again, he is retelling the story. But he says Shawn Miller told me cold, I wanna bring you in. I'll turn everything over to you. And then Martin Blaser who was on the stand subsequently testifies that he understood that to mean that Shawn Miller had been taking care of payments for Andrea Rayton. Shawn Miller was taken care of everything. Christian dockings, go. Goes on to say, Shawn Miller has to know everything that goes on. I can call Sean and have a conversation. Like, this is what's needing to be done? He'll talk on the phone about stuff. He shouldn't talk on the phone about. So. That's obviously all interesting. And if you want to say that dockings is just lying. I guess you can say that. It's not something a reasonable person would think, but if you wanna think it it's fine because. Whatever we'll get into that momentarily. But. Is it clear to you? Now, Sean, Sean Miller might come out and subsequently say, I never told Christian Dawkins that I was taking care of everything as a related to be Andrea Aden or that. I was doing anything improper as it relates to Andrea hidden or any other player, he simply not telling the truth and as long as John's not on a wiretap. Stating otherwise that might be a story that at least AirAsia fans will believe and that at least it will allow him to keep his job. But if we are to accept what Christian doctrines on video said as the truth is it clear to you that at the very least Christian dock ins was operating under the idea that Shawn Miller had told him. Yes, I've done a deal for de'andre eight. Is there any doubt near mind that that's what Christian if we accept his story as the truth? That's what he that's the idea. He was operated. Yeah. There's no other interpretation of that is interpreted as long as you. Now, some will not accept it. Because they'll they can easily point to his lack of credibility the reasons that he was fired from Andy Miller sports as. Racking up just thousands of dollars in Uber debts and getting booted out from from that company to begin with. But yes, there is no other way to interpret that. And also I have to include here that amid all this testimony. It was all, you know, blazer also testified and to be clear he is he has been working with the attorney's office for. Is more than I mean, it's been it's more than three years at this point. They more four years and been working with the FBI for a little less than that is facing sixty-seven like he is not a reputable guy either the stuff that he is he's got himself into but he is facing sixty seven years in prison as a MAC sentence. If he violates any part of his agreement, which includes not only lying here, but ever lying or misleading in the course of this investigation. And he said book Richardson, and we booked pleaded guilty. So all all this stuff is basically accepted as fact to this point, but booker's took thousands of dollars over multiple meetings and agreed to to help align Arizona prospects with Kristin Dawkins in his company and the financial advisors attached to that thereafter. So as a mere state of fact, there was an is a former Arizona coach who has been connected to this in in the ferris way. Yes. That's not Shawn Miller. But it has been people who are on Sean who were on Shawn Miller staff, and what makes it even more interesting real quick. I'll throw it back to you is like dockings is caught talking about the nature of book Richardson, and Shaun Miller's working relationship how long they've known each other. He says it's weird. It's like a bad marriage. I happen to share this intimate with with a high profile coach afterward on Wednesday. And he said his college basketball baby, which is which was his way of saying a lot of times, these these these head coach and sister relationships can almost get rocky as as as as a byproduct of the actual business there. So I think some people picked up on that Paris don't necessarily mean if that's anything detrimental to dockings was claiming there. But it was it was it was interesting and the way that this all came up. I mean, I didn't enter that courtroom on Wednesday thinking that we were gonna get stuff on Shawn Miller for sure I mean, if you would maybe. A yes, or no, I said, I wouldn't think so because the prosecution doesn't want Miller to even testify and yet here it is presenting video, which I don't think necessarily helps its case. But within the context of the conversation dockings was having his talking about a lot of stuff. That's where the prosecution was trying to establish the conspiracy in the bribery that dockings was setting out to to snare a lot of college coaches with. Well, let me explain why asked the question to you the way ask the question because earlier today while following you and Nicolau back, and Dan, Wetzel and Adams, the Goria on Twitter, all of you. I assume all of you were there because you're all tweeting about it. You know, I tweeted like go check their fees. They got all the details plot. The biggest development seems to be that Christian Dawkins is on video saying that Shawn Miller told him he had done a deal for. For de'andre Aidan and Samara's Zona fans in like the clowns who run some of the Zona websites the fan sites. They're like, oh, that's not what Quinn dock and said, I mean, there's two camps. Right. It's one is like you can't believe Christian doctrines. And the other one is like that's not even what he said. If you want to say, you don't believe Christian Dawkins. I can't make you believe Christian dockets. He has credibility problems. He is a convicted felon, Shaun Miller's best chance at surviving. This is probably rooted in the fact that the guy who can most easily bring him down best. We know has massive credibility problems. He's a convicted felon, and there's no evidence that suggest Erazo ONA or the NCWA is going to be able to or even willing to accept simply Christian Dawkins word as the gospel as it relates to Shawn Miller, it is possible that the way this forever goes down is Christian dock and says this is what was happening. And Shawn Miller says no it wasn't. And that's just where we're at totally. He said he said forever. So if that's where you're at a can't can't move you to the other side, I'm not even gonna try to. But that is what he's on the video saying now, he Christian darkens believes that Shawn Miller told him that John Miller did a deal for Dion. Great. And the quote, I think is very important to focus on what Christian Dhaka's actually said. Because he's Shawn Miller said I've been taking care of everything. But I will turn it over to you. The only thing that could possibly mean is I've been taking care of family. But eventually, I'm happy to turn it over to you. Let you start taking care of. I took care of him to get him on campus. You can take care of them to get them with your company. I'll turn this thing over to you. There's nothing else to turn over to Christian Dawkins. Like, some Zona fans tweeted me like, well, you know, also Miller was I've taken the lead role in the recruitment of de'andre. That's only mitt. That he was it wasn't book recruiting him. It wasn't past recruiting him. It was just Sean. That's what he meant. Well, then what does it mean when he says, I'll hand it over to you. You're going to hand over the lead recruiting role. What does that mean except for? I've been taking care of the family. I'm going to hand that over to you. I got I had to take care of onto them on campus. You can start taking care of them to get them with your company like honest to God. I don't ask this. So that you don't push back. If you have another way to interpret those words, please enlighten me there. There's not an at this point. Remember like just to crystallize the time line here Aden's he is scheduled to get to campus as a student at the university of Arizona. So if we to believe Dawkins in what he's passing along here again, it is him saying he talked to Shawn Miller, and he is he is putting on the table a scenario in which all things to take care of Deandra eight and. Don't he's not a coach doesn't work for the Zona under what other circumstances could Christian doctrines be dealing with deonte Eytan than than to. I mean. I mean, the verbiage cannot be interpreted and any other way to take. And I should say this. It's not all fans. Just like it's never all Kentucky fans, and it's never all vans or whatever is not only zone offense. But it is some of them and a couple of who work for these sites and what they think these zone related size, and what this happens in. It's not unique. There is things I should say ole miss fan site, reporters and alums did it with the Hugh free stuff. You do these mental gymnastics, and you somehow convince yourself because you're blinded by fandom you convince yourself that something that is clear day right in front of you. If an actually what it is. And that you're the only one who can see at the proper way everybody else's dumb. No. It's always you. It's always you. That's the dumb one like if you want to as an Zona fan. I let me say this. Again. Shawn Miller says. I've been taking care of everything. But I'm going to turn it over to you. That's according to Christian doctrines. There's nothing else turning over to you could mean except for something improper. There's nothing that could mean accept something improper. So like, if you if you start suggesting, otherwise, you just sound dumb, the other thing, I've heard from some Arizona fans is two things one is will you you you? You you can't believe oh, Christian doctrines? Is sounds like a guy who's just trying to keep stay out of jail. So he'll say anything he's got to say to stay out of jail. You have to understand the time line Christian Dawkins when he's recorded again, June two thousand seventeen saying these things on a yacht to undercover agents, he is does it. He does the concept of jail is not even thing. He can't even imagine go into judo for any of this stuff. So he's not saying anything to try to stay at a jail. He's not even been accused of anything charged with anything gel is not his in his world. So that if you tweeted that you're you're getting you don't know what you're talking about the other thing, you hear is well Christian doctrines that sounds to me like a guy who's just trying to make him sound self sound like a big shot to a couple investors. Like, I got a relationship with Shawn Miller, I got a really just trying to make himself bigger than a years. So that he can make sure to secure relationships with these business people, and I won't concede. Perhaps that's true lots of probably done that. But why is he not talking crazy about anybody else? Why why why is it only on Miller? He's talking about in this way. Yeah. I know it's not only Shawn Miller. But like why if he's really trying to make himself sound like a big shot to these investors? Why didn't he have stories exactly? Like, the Shawn Miller story with seven other head coaches across the country. I can answer that question for you. Exactly. Because this is something that didn't get tweeted about didn't land in the stories the specific thing. But the reason why he doesn't is as he is. In a separate part of the testimony today. GP scanning through my notes here. He is talking. He's talking to them about the assistant coaches being the ones that he has access to the ones who are dealing with these recruits on an intimate basis. And like doc ins, even says, the head coaches are not the one. I'm I'm paraphrasing here the head coach like most head coaches. I don't have access to he mentions Miller he mentions Izzo because he has known since he was just a little boy. And in fact, a quick sidetrack. This one of his brothers younger brothers actually collapsed and died at a Tom Izzo camp. It is tremendously sad story. And there's there's kind of a story behind all the story that we've seen here with this and said, it's kind of remarkable. But my point is that he he was not saying. The way that TJ gas in the first trial admitted on the stand to goosing up his juice and relevance with Rick Pitino and the recruitment of Brian Bowen dockings is not putting forth his position with a lot of big name coaches to the investors into blazer. He is with Miller assessing noses, which is absolutely true. And I don't even think he gets to deep into the repetition of stuff. In fact, he oddly. I don't know if this is good or bad for Patino because it makes Patino clueless. But he Patino, he says doesn't even know anything. He says a lot of big boys. Do know what's happening Tino just has has no idea what's happening with this program. So I know the point you're making there, but they're just to give you some more perspective on that. Like dockings does just to say, I will have access to a lot of guys a lot of assistance, and then maybe by proxy, the head coaches. But most major head coaches, I'm not close with right? Well, you're underlining my point what what a what did illogical? Arizona fan would would tell you is that Christian dockings is just out there. Throwing around Shaun. Miller's name to try to make himself sound big these investors like why nobody else then why is he actually telling the investors? I don't really know John Kerry like that, you know, I don't really know. Bill self like that the only one he's like. My point is simple. If if he was really if the goal of these comments was to make himself appear bigger than he is then he would've like went way more than just show Miller like he illogical to think he's making up all these wild things about Shawn Miller, but doesn't make up these wild things about these other people does that make do you see what I'm saying? It makes sense. And plus context here helps in that like. Well before this ever came out. All I can say is like the scuttle butt in rumor mongering about the fact that the Andrea eight and got to AirAsia under unusual if not illegal pretenses when it came to recruiting. This was a commonly discussed thing behind the scenes, so when you combine that with what dockings is talking about here within the context of being the year twenty seventeen it makes a lot of senses to why he would say the things that he was saying like again, and that should never be forgotten by the way, like we know that because TJ guests testified to it. And there's text messages, we know TJ guests Nola on behalf of a deed as was trying to buy de'andre eight and for Keynes's, we know that we know Kansas was trying Kansas would deny this. But we know that a deed is was trying to cheat on behalf of whether Kansas was involved. Not is a point of contention even though like get outta my face the GP. Never forget that Kansas victim right there. So we what we know as as a matter of fact is that a Dita's was trying to buy Andrea trying to buy the. And we know that t take has Nola gave fifteen thousand dollars to the home alarm now, we know that. And so the zone for nothing. What like even if we didn't have any of this other stuff once we know that we know something went down, and according to Christian Dawkins who was being recorded. He didn't even know he was being recorded. Here's what window shell Miller did a deal and was very comfortable talking about the deal, and is so much. So that a hustler like Christian dockets, somebody is reckless as Christian doctrines is caught on video saying man, Sean talked wild on the phone ways that he shouldn't be like when Christian dockets thinks you're reckless. With your words say about you. Obviously not good things that we've got. To assistance that have been at least linked to inappropriate stuff, book Richardson guilty. Joe pastor next name has popped up several times throughout this stuff. And then the another assistant fired for improper STA. So like. I've had other coaches. Power five coaches say how can you run a program that is tied to all this stuff. Every one of your system. It's at least there's allegations tied to every one of them. And you're still the coach like, it's crazy. And I don't say any of this with joy like I don't Sean for a long time. I like show Miller. But like like it is what it is. I mean at some point you have to like, not be blinded by phantom or just ignorant to reality. Like, I don't think Arizona was the only has been the only program at there cheating. But there is no way reasonable person could think anything other than Arizona's been cheating, given everything that we now know been connected that program. You're hitting on obvious talking points. I've heard the same thing. There are many a coach who wonder how the hell Shawn Miller still has his shop, frankly. And now have become all the more cynical to it. Just because of the circumstances and facts, and the trial stuff that is surrounded the program today, just really really amplified it. I know you got more GP, I will mention real quick after all the stuff happens. It's dockings his father who is. Was dream on Green's former high school coach. And now is college basketball assistant a longtime coach they're both standing outside the courthouse along with Steve Haney their lawyer. And Dan, what's went up to Haney? I as I was composing, my notes, and I came to realize that he asked Haney told him that on on Thursday morning. He is going to see if because of what the prosecution brought into evidence today, if Shawn Miller can be used as a witness for the defense because if the prosecution is bringing about this video, and what doctors were relying regarded Shawn Miller, the prosecution seizes relevant than why is it not equally as relevant for the defense to be able to use Miller on the stand. The question becomes a will the judge who said he was open to reconsidering actually do that. And again, what dock ins was talking about is not actual evidence. It is. In his here say it is conjecture. And so that the the judge could still say, no, this doesn't this doesn't fall within the realm of what I want here. But that we will probably an answer to that on Thursday. But that's kinda you know, as the story lingers here, we talk about what happened with Miller and a few more things you want to get to. I wanted to give a heads up to listeners whenever you might be checking this podcast. Maybe we'll have an update by by by noon. My guest though, by the way, is that. I still don't think that Miller is going to testify if he did it is is it is a seat change in the case for many, obvious reasons. The last thing I would say is that 'cause I soon we'll have a lot of Arizona fans who are listening to this because it's a podcast primarily about Arizona, or at least Arizona's coach, and I guess my message would be this. If you want to say, hey, listen other programs cheat, we know we believe Nike's by players for. Some of the bluest blood programs could America, we know that is was working for Kansas. So like, yeah, this is about us now. But don't make it out. Like, we're the only ones fine with me. I'll not I'm not an agreement. And if you wanna say. Hey, listen. I don't even care whatever watching the under eight was fond. So like, maybe we have to vacate stuff someday. Maybe it ultimately cost our coach's job. But I don't care. That's fun. We've been we've been good for a while. It's been fun. That's a reasonable position to take as well. If you want to say, all right. We did it, but we might get away with it. Because if all you got Christian Dawkins word and a whole bunch of circumstantial evidence, then that's all you got. And I don't think we're going to get hammered over Christian word in a bunch of circles circumstantial evidence who that sell. Celebrate it. That's fine. That's what fans do all over the country. The only thing I object to is trying to pretend that this isn't as it is that this isn't what it is same thing with LSU fans, if you wanna be excited about the idea that you really might get away with it. Okay. Like, it is it is this is college athletics. But just don't be dumb about it. Don't pretend that it's not exactly as it appears because no reasonable person could read or listen to everything we've read or heard about wiretaps text messages emails under oath testimony documents. Nobody could could digest all of this stuff over the past couple years and reach any conclusion other than. At was on. They were operating way outside of the rule book for a significant period of time. That's very hard to disagree with and we've gone way too long without a disagreement. Hopefully, we'll have something soon here. The question will become as to what you're getting with their parish. How soon the instable actually choose to do something about this with everything we've we've had attached to the university at this point. I find it hard to believe that the answer will not make it a point to come down on Miller and Arizona at some point. I just don't know when that will be and again, we we could still we are going to still hear more with this. We are still going to hear more to trial comes out and continues with blazers testimony Thursday and Friday at the he's going till Friday. The at the earliest he's going to he's going to set the record for the longest day over day. Testimony of anyone in either the first two cases, we're gonna find out more about book Richardson's involvement with all of this again Richardson has pled guilty as Tony bland as Lamont Evans in this specific case, but there is still more to come out with zone. And and there was plenty that came out with other schools, by the way. But obviously, you get to Sean Miller what talking saying, that's that's the headline from from Wednesday. One more thing before we move onto actual basketball stuff you mentioned in passing. But I think it's worth pointing out because it is kind of hilarious. One of these Christian doctrines is also in video saying is that Rick got no idea what's going on. You know, most most of the big guys do, but Rick Pitino really has no idea what's going on inside of his program. And what's interesting about that is because that is a centrally what Rick Pitino said this entire like, hey, maybe I should have known. Not really sure how I should've known. But maybe I should have known an ultimately, it's my responsibility. I get it. But I did not know about the stripper parties. And I did not know about Brian Bowen and still to this day as I pointed out previously on podcast. There's never been one bit of evidence that actually tied Patino to Brian Bowen or to the stripper parties, not wiretap. Not a text message on E mail, not even testimony. From anybody saying, oh, yes. Of course, Rick Pitino new and now we get Christian Dawkins on video FBI surveillance saying it's wild, but rip potato does not know. And I because when I tweeted this today. Thousand people anxious to tell me, well, it is job to no no shit. I know it's his job to right? Like, I understand. There are actually rolls that the installation put in place to hold head coach accountable for things that happened on their watch. I'm not sitting here and telling you Rick Pitino was wrong to lose his job at Louisville. All I'm saying is that if you are somebody who found it just impossible to believe that Rick Pitino really was in the dark about this stuff. Well, at the very least Christian Dawkins who clearly has no hesitation telling you about what college basketball coaches do know most notably Shawn Miller, here's Christian Dawkins on video saying, you know, what it's actually true Rick Pitino does not have any idea what's going on in his program. And I would say that I always believed that about the stripper parties. And I've made that case a million times. I think I've always thought you'd have to be really like cover your is yet to be really naive to the point of being foolish. Tha. Not understand something was fishy. With the Brian Bowen deal, like just falls in your lap. And so I don't accept that. As like like, if you didn't know what was going on there. You didn't. You just didn't ask any questions you weren't as suspicious as you should have been. But I think today with a day for Rick Pitino because at the very least the one thing he's consistently said is backed up on video by somebody who if they had the goods to bring him down could bring him down fair guy said Rick Pitino really did not know. Yeah. I mean, so totally. And to those who will pick sides of this. Are you going to believe Dawkins with one thing and not believe him with the other? Are you going to believe him or not believe him with both as you believe him on both parts, I know you, but I'm just saying, and I believe he really believed that Rick Pitino did not know. I just think that you know. You know, it's a little bit. Like if I walked into my sixteen year olds room right now. And he on the bed counting thirty two hundred dollars out. I'd be like, yeah. What? Where'd you where this thirty two hundred dollars? Come from. He'd be like, oh, well, you know, I've been I've been working after school. You got thirty two hundred dollars cash in your bedroom. Okay. Okay. We'll keep walking hard. But that doesn't make any sense. Like, you're you're you're up to something. If you've got thirty two hundred dollars cash in your bedroom at sixteen years old doing something, you probably are doing. And if I don't want to know just gotta stop asking the questions and accept your story. I believe that's what Rick Pitino did with Brian Bowen. There's no way that five star prospect just falls into your lap in a matter of weeks and something weird didn't go on. If you did not know, it means, you just stopped asking questions, and you accepted the version of events that made it in your best interest. So that's what I've always thought about it. But again that doesn't mean he didn't. That doesn't mean he wasn't really in the dark, just I think the most reasonable thing you can say is he chose to be in the dark. Yeah. I think it was as good as it was bad for Patino here. I check the time difference. So it would have been if Patino happen to be in touch with his Twitter account, Greece seven hours ahead from from New York Times. So this sort of about a little shy of ten o'clock where he is at would have loved to have seen Pitino's reaction in real time. When the when all of this went down and the text messages on undoubtedly came flooding in. There's plenty of skepticism with Patino with Miller, and that known as maybe the biggest micromanager of his staff and his program in college basketball. Even if you didn't know it was a willing knowing this there, and that's not acceptable or excusable either. I don't disagree with that at all. But I did think it interesting that Patino was dropped and particularly in the tones, the one thing that pairs I can't totally invoked to use the tone in which Dawkins was talking about this. And it was just almost sympathetic that he was talking about Tino. And how much did not know when it came to all that stuff. Can I just tick off like four or five real quick things here before we move on about the trial, just in general things that aren't religious Miller and Makino? Yeah. Go I'll be quick first and foremost, the judge in this case, I find him to be much. I won't say the previous judge Lewis. Kaplan was unreasonable because he wasn't. He was just a stern bad ass. Septuagenarian and wasn't gonna take anything from anyone. At Gardo Ramos is the judge here. I'd say he's maybe fifteen to twenty years younger a little more soft-spoken a little more reasonable. There have been objections from. The prosecution in some cross by the defense that have been overruled in in my estimation. Had this been Kaplan they would have been sustained the defense was allowed to tip toe into the NC double A realities of cheating in college basketball, a little bit on Tuesday that came with Jackson's that were overruled, although Rama's did gently after the jury left. I have a direct quote here. I do not want to put the defense on notice. But I will say we will not be trying the AA in this case. So keep that in mind a similar theme to the first case overall. And that might ultimately be one of the big reasons why Shawn Miller might not be testifying. I gotta talk real quick about mardi blazer 'cause. I mean, he's forty nine went to Carnegie Mellon get into that school. You gotta be you. Gotta be a smart guy. He straight out of Pittsburgh. Which is a coincidental connection that Shawn Miller. Played at Pitt from Pitt in here, you have a guy a self made financial advisor, so get this just real quick his backstory as to why he even gets into this stuff because he had to talk about it. He so he was a financial visor for regular people in retirees, and then he gets into advising NFL players, and that actually leads to him pain college football players for more than a decade. So that he would be their financial advisor when they went to the NFL. And this this worked like he had a lot of clients. But the reason why he gets busted is in two thousand ten he met a movie producer from Pittsburgh. Apparently he wanted to be involved in the movie business and completely flamed out in failed. All right. He gets approached about this mafia movie, starring Ving rains with one million dollar price tag. And so, you know, blazer gets. Surreptitiously a few of his clients to to agree to this. Eventually he quote, I knew I wasn't going to get there. The investments were nowhere near one billion. So the guy panics moves the money without his clients knowledge some of NFL players, and then there was a second movie project. Tell me you wouldn't want to see this movie. It was a it was a horror movie starring Michael Clarke, Duncan, Dunkin and Michel Barton. For some for some hundreds of thousands of dollars. He needed to move eventually one of his clients. We don't know the identity of this person. But it's an NFL player. I love to know who it was. And what he threatened to do to to mardi blazer because he finds out blazer moves that money back takes it from another client and soon enough the securities exchange commissions all over this guy's rear. He's going through this from two thousand ten to two thousand thirteen. Through all this, by the way, how he meets Mooney suit who gets caught up in the college basketball conspiracy. He gets busted. And then when he gets busted he is talking with the thirties. They're telling them, listen, we got you. And you've gotta tell us everything you've ever done that's been wrong ever. And so that's when he gets into telling him about paying college football players that was the story of Tuesday, by the way. Bama, Michigan Notre Dame Penn State. I mean this caused you know, some ripples within that community was complete non story Wednesday at the trial, by the way, but he has got a bizarre buzzed haircut. Slick BAC I can't even describe this haircut. But he he absolutely fits the part. And. I he's just he is he is an intriguing witness. Sometimes looks a little bit nervous has admitted. He's like I'm up here because I don't want to want to wanna go to prison for sixty seven years, and I cannot lie. So a lot of what he says actually comes off as believable because you you absolutely believe that the feds got this guy pinned to the wall. He has not been sentenced, by the way whenever he does. Whenever all this concludes. He's doing this in hopes that it greatly reduces to sentence the same exact way that that TJ SNL hopes that it will for him ton other stuff that I'm not going to get to. But I will say the one random side funny note of this was as Dawkins is talking. And if you wanna connect us to the Miller stuff, you can, but as Dawkins is kind of talking about these in a car ride the writing back, it's him and blazer and sued the writing back from South Carolina, Georgia after having met with Lamont Evans. They have the whole conversation about how Evans is going to get paid. And how a player like PJ dosier can change the outcome and trajectory. A program at cetera et cetera. Doc ins is talking about his relationship with with Izzo. And he goes and pardon my language here. But I'm gonna quote directly here. He goes like Tommaso been in my fucking house crying and ship before when my dad didn't give him on end quote side note, so darkens his father coach Draymond green and high school. What I related this quote on Twitter. What I didn't realize was apparently at the time when Draymond green committed to Kentucky GP, you might remember this. But this is right before it got CBS. Oh, I had no recollection this. But Draymond committed to Kentucky before he even had an offer from Michigan state. So darkens his story as he is telling it isn't even Kentucky factually, correct? Why would Izzo be all upset at not getting dream on? Apparently at that time. Michigan state didn't even think Jerry mom was worth a scholarship anyway, I'll finish up the quote, real quick here. He was well at first he didn't give him de. Here's going to Kentucky. It I them do to have known me since I was a little kid, and then the younger systems all came. You know, we all came up in the business together he's referring to to Michigan state there. But the idea that Tom Izzo allegedly bawling his eyes out at Christian at the dockets home over not getting dream on was. Almost as random Shawn Miller popping in out of nowhere. But that was kind of a common theme with a lot of with a lot of dock and stuff there's a ton there. I can't get to it. I'll tell you what I'd say of everything that's been talked about tweeted about written about it's maybe ten percent of what's happened in the first few days. A lot of Lamont Evans, even some stuff about other agents, similar to Andy Miller, and how they had their hands in the in the pockets coaches, namely Bill Duffy, well-known MB agent was accused by dockings of having Syracuse on the payroll, no other schools, specifically remission there. But there's some there's some intriguing stuff and stuff that I'm not going to get onto on this podcast GP that could come into play Thursday Friday or even next week. We'll wait and see where we go with further testimony. Art is that it from lower Manhattan, you think? Yeah. That's that's that's about it. We actually have some interesting college hoops stuff on court news that we should get to here. And we know that there's an audience that cares. More about that than even the trial stuff. So let's give it to them with the biggest news of the week is on the recruiting front and that his cO Anthony consensus top five player in the class of two thousand nineteen publicly committed to North Carolina. We'll talk about that. And just a second. I check this out. I want to remind you that this episode of the CBS sports. College basketball podcast is brought to you by seek where the promo code college BB will get you ten dollars off your first seatgeek purchase, as you know, the ticket industry hasn't changed in a long time. There are bunch of becomes that have been around forever. But they don't really care about making the experience easier for customers, but seek is unlike that seek is a ticket company where the customer comes first with more than fifty thousand five-star reviews in the app store. Seek pulls in millions of tickets from all over the web rates each deal on a scale of one to ten and displays them on inter. Active seat map. So it simplify what you're looking for green dot to good deals red dots are overpriced and yes every purchase fully guaranteed. So you can shop for tickets with confidence hand to heart. I have the Sieg app on my phone when I need tickets. 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Football fans will breads pick six podcast the NFL season maybe over, but that doesn't mean we're going to stop doing daily NFL shows, contrary, my friend, we're taking a deep dive into all covered right now bring you the latest news and notes from around the league and even breaking down mock draft once a week with college football writer, chip Patterson and NFL draft expert ride Wilson, plus a rotating cast of characters may stop by occasionally prospect positional dies team by team downplaying the pick six five cash your one stop off season shop for NFL draft information. All you gotta do is bang that subscribe button in your favorite podcast app. At a new episode of dropped to your phone every morning, come hang. So co Anthony committed North Carolina earlier this week. He's a consensus top five player in the class of two thousand nineteen a combo guard. Obviously the son of UNLV lead, Greg Anthony. And what was most interesting about it to me is that he's the second five star prospect in the class of two thousand nineteen to commit to North Carolina that might not sound like a big deal, but it is a bit of a stretch from where North Carolina was just a few years ago. Because last year they got to five stars Nassir little Koby white this year to more Cohen and our men are Mondo bay cut. And this is the first two year stretch where they've secured commitments from multiple five star players since two thousand ten in two thousand eleven and obviously the biggest problem in preventing this in recent years was the case that hung above the program, you know, in two thousand fifteen sixteen. Seventeen so three recruiting classes, and this basically coverage the span of when the instantly relaunched investigation in North Carolina. And then ended its investigation North Carolina. They only got one five star player. Tony, Bradley, according to twenty four seven fifteen sixteen seventeen. So they got one in three years. Now, they've got four in two years. Bottom line. It looks like with that instability, cloud, remove North Carolina is now back to recruiting like North Carolina. Tony Bradley mentioned gosh, I had not thought last time you thought about Tony Bradley later yesterday. When I when his name's the one that popped up when I was that. Maybe a time. Yes, right now is he in the NBA? I am looking. Peers that he's not okay. Was he in the NBA as recently as two thousand seventeen it appears that he was he played let me guess. Like give me three guesses at franchises. These are going to be complete guesses. I guess the hawks of course, now I did not play for the okay second. Guess is the wizards. Nope. Third guests. I can't even envision Tony Bradley in an MBA uniform. I will say. I mean, come also the Mavericks. I have no idea he was drafted by and has been a member of the Utah Jazz. But he has how many games in the NBA. Do you think Tony Bradley has played the fact that you ask me that makes me think it's no more than eighteen? So I will say thirty seven according to Wikipedia, it's twelve. He's played twelve NBA games. And he is currently a member of the Salt Lake City stars that G league franchise of the Utah Jazz poor guy now shots, the Tony, Bradley, regardless and. Yeah. Well, let me see here. It looks like. Maybe he played twenty four minutes in the regular season finale against the clippers got call up. He might actually be on the roster right now, though, he has played zero minutes. I doubt that doubt that I don't think that is going to be the case they're good turn of events here for ROY Williams. Although. Cole Anthony committed. I was like in the courtroom. I didn't find out until whenever I check my phone hours later there. Although I thought it was gonna be Carolina. I'd love to so quick analysis. Quick thought uncle Anthony from me analysis when I saw him playing person. I definitely thought this is one of the five best players in his class. I really like but don't necessarily love his game. It was I mean Carolina from I wanna say like last September was considered the leader. So I'd love to know from coal Anthony, like were you really truly two weeks ago a month ago, debating, Georgetown, and Oregon like where you really or was this was it Carolina for like, six months. And if so why with as long, I'm just I'm curious when you know, the thinking behind that a lot of people thought that it was going to be Carolina at winds up being Carolina, you often we'll see this like guys that are top fifteen top twenty players. There will be a school that is considered a clear front runner for months. If not years, they nevertheless up to side in the late signing period for one reason or another and then lo and behold, it's Carolina good for ROY Williams. I'll tell you this. If he did debate it Kobe white season was the clincher coal. Anthony is not the exact kind of player as Kobe white. I might even venture to say that. Cole will be hard pressed at times to be as entertaining. And as productive. Kobe was this past season. But he is going to have his chance UNC still has three scholarships open for next season. They need to still get some more dudes that they got a nice, incoming freshman class and. For the first time in I don't know how long I know Duke has the number one class, and if you want to get to that in a little bit we can't e but Carolina has the bigger name of the two among all freshmen. And I'm guessing the last time that was actually the case was Harrison Barnes. Yeah. Carolina's class in twenty four seven sports is up to six in the country because they didn't just get a commitment from Cohen thirty on whatever day it was two. They also got a commitment from Anthony Harris top sixty five combo guard from Fairfax Virginia and that pushed their class up to six in the country. But as you point out Duke has the number one class in the country. Even if do you think do you think do you think coincidence, a bigger name the Vernon Carey I do because because because let's because of his father in part because. Even if he's not rated higher. He's a card balls in his hands more and his dad. Listen, his dad was first round NFL draft pick and his dad's no stranger at all. But I do think coal Anthony is a bigger name. I think the only big name in the classes Weisman. The wise men's probably the biggest name in the closet. He is by the way. Jonathan Vanni and Sam Seaney people people forget that have seen. It used to be on this podcast. He's on the spot cast right now actually on the tuchus right now. What if I told people that we actually still have save on the cast every every episode? He just does not even try to talk. He's gave up. That's right. Yeah. Right. Sam we love you. Hanging there. So they built this is what I'm saying. They both updated their twenty twenty NBA mock draft. So that's the one that's going to evolve players who are in college next year. And they both have Jim Wiseman going number one. He by all accounts is been super impressive over the past month on the all star circuit. So that is that. But as you point out dukes got the number one class in the country. It's headlined by Vernon Carey. But it also includes Matthew hurt who committed last week. And it also includes cash Stanley who committed earlier this week. So it is a five player class with one two three four five top thirty five players to top ten players. And I now got Duke number two in the CBS sports top twenty thousand one am I crazy. I think a little crazy. I do this is what I keep running into people. Like, there's no way that team should be there who should be higher viscous states one who should be higher. I read me first of all. I quit site thought. And this is great for Duke. Like, this is what it should be doing. But I'm almost a little bored by this like another like just one after another after another. I think Stanley is gonna be really fun to watch. I think he's got a chance of being a two year player who's really really good in year. Two almost like the next coming trade Jones, even though don't play the same position. All right. Read me, read me, your one to ten and I'll I'm gonna try to get to. I just I can't put him there. I go ahead remained who got one to ten right now. Michigan state at one number two. Number three is Kentucky. Number four is Louisville. The other one pushed back on number five is Maryland number six is North Carolina number seven canes. Number eight is Gonzaga. This is also a big development from this week number nine is for Jinya. Yeah. Because they're losing cow guy now too. So they're definitely losing tiger de'andre hunter and cow guy. Top three scores. Now, God if anybody can still be really good without the top three scores. It's Tony Bennett Virginia because each of the past six years they finished in the top twelve at Kim palm average, finish a four point eight doesn't matter who's coming who's going there. Always good. So I kept them in the top ten, but I got for genius nine. Seton Hall at ten. I I've run into this every April perish like. I stand on the top ten to somebody else to be number two. Who is it? My gosh. Like, if you if you don't think it should be Duke. Okay. I'm listening who's who's got a bit roster. Who's going to have a better team? I mean, that's just. That Michigan state Duke Kentucky, Louisville, Maryland Carolina, Kansas Gonzaga, Virginia, Seton Hall, man, Virginia. Why couldn't you just make it easy guy ties, Rome? Why couldn't you just come back easy pick there? For Jinya could have won national championship and only lost Jekyll. I know. What's while? All right. I would first of all. Trey Jones, I think you do. I really do. I mean bowl than you are suing coming back to Delara your Suming is coming back. Then you add in some big time prospects like Vernon Carey Matthew hurt. I I don't know who else to put there. I think they do have to be too. I mean, this is. Kentucky three. I don't know. And like Louisville probably has top five claim, and I don't even like them as a top five team right now. Maryland, Maryland is v. With losing Bruno Fernando, but they bring basically everything else. Jalen, I I think that Carolina Kansas. Gonzaga will be better. Virginia might be man. How about that? This is a gross. And then of course, by the time, we get November. I will just have convinced myself. This is how it should be. But that is just I don't know man like to me, and I am I alone here. Like this just feels like a weird undeserving top ten at the moment. But we also got to see like. We know gentleman who's going to say is going to we still got decisions like that's still gonna come in terms of who's coming college basketball once rosters like thicken up and fill out and transfers make decisions grad transfer. That'll also that will play a part there. Because like we don't know where blacks here is going to go you can have an impact within the top ten or outside of it. But. RJ Hamptons probably going to reclassify and enroll somewhere. That's also true. Yeah. I can just tell you at Memphis. They think they're getting our to Hampton. Not. Memphis ranked yet you don't do have them nineteenth. But based on them also get in addition to what they already have getting precious to and Lester Jonas because they're predicted by twenty four seven sports to get both of they gotta be. Yeah. They gotta be tapped twenty they do if you have precious chew and James Wiseman, that's two top ten picks. Yeah. You you have to penny was good enough in year one where that where you have to do that. There was a lot of questions about what whether he'd be able to coach, and I'm not going to sit here and calling Brad Stevens. But I will tell you somebody who watch basically every game they played. He was never really he never looked at a place. He was never overwhelmed. The team was limited from talent perspective because of what tubby Smith left him. But I think he he he did a lot of good in terms of. Making it clear that he is not just outclassed the way a quote, unquote, high school coach might be right? I will say this. Topic on this podcast. If all stays in place. I think Arizona might have an outside shot up in a top ten team because you'll bring in Josh green Nico minion big time players. I think Dylan Smith will make a jump. You have chased Jeter who will be back both Brandon's Randolph Williams. We'll be back. Maybe they can even add another piece. There wouldn't shock me. If AirAsia really made a strong boomerang back granted. Shawn Miller is still there don't necessarily discount their their viability there. But yeah, I don't know, man. I I can't disagree. Michigan state one Duke to Michigan by the way, plummets like Jordan pools leave and he's gone for good. They lose they're going to lose three. They're gonna lose their top three scores. I dropped on a fifteen that's fair. One of the points. I made is that last year they lost three of their top four scorers and still finished with two seed in the tournament. So be lines a little bit like Tony Bennett. Like, you'll probably. Figure this out, although I will say the difference between that and this is that he was getting ready to enroll. Brick brass Davis. And Iggy breath Dake is and I I don't think they're enrolling that kinda guy this year. Yeah. I agree. Okay. Well, we'll see. I mean, good on Carolina. They they definitely I remember when you sent me your originalist. I looked at it at the final four, and I thought Carolina was too high. But I think they have to be a preseason top ten team. And I would think they're going to add one Greg transfer of real impact there. We'll see if that transfer actually, you know, winds up being a key piece, but they have needs to fill. But but UNC, well, you know to circle back. Your UNC will be very fun to watch with coal Anthony, he will be ball dominant, high usage, high volume kind of player we'll see if that is a winning strategy for ROY Williams or not it was with Kobe white. They're not the exact kind of player, but the both going to watch. And then the Duke is once again it's going to finish with everyone play remember on class in the country for the fourth straight year. And that I mean, that's yeah. That's gotta volt to preseason. Number two. So we'll have no shortage do topics in the off season. I know, but I know those were the two big. I I mean, those really were the two biggest recruiting headlines of the week here. As by the way, Friday will resume the alive. Periods of coach will be on the road Friday watching players and continuing to recruit. You wanna call it a podcast? He L. Let's call. It a podcast. I got it. I mean, I gotta get up. You gotta grain, right? This trains man from Connecticut down into down to the city. It's from door to door for me like walking out my door to step in onto into the courthouse. It's it's about two hours twenty minutes or so like, it's a real commute there. I don't know how people do this every single day. But that is that is the northeast grind of life. So many people live in Connecticut and commute down to the city, but the trial actually has turned into a little more interesting than I thought it would. And as stuff progresses will continue to update I'll have stories everyday from there. And this is like, I mean, I understand some people might have tea with it. But it's more. Frankly, it's way more interesting than than committing to North Carolina for me. So as we as we learn more, we'll continue to update you, and I do think that trial will wrap within two weeks of recording this podcast. Shouts Devon down. Shasta Justice, South Carolina shells to cherry in that Diglis leg shows to learn now, please goes from the island college basketball podcast, if you haven't already done it while you there rated favourably five stars. Nice comments. It really does help us. We really do. Appreciate it. So you guys knock that out? And at the very least we'll be back next week. And if something happens that makes us feel like we need to be back sooner than that. We will be the best way to make sure you don't miss anything again. Subscribe. That way the episode goes right to your phone ASAP. We'll talk to you. Sing.

Shawn Miller Christian Dawkins basketball Sean Miller Arizona Rick Pitino Miller CBS Richardson Andy Miller North Carolina Lamont Evans dockings NBA NFL Patino Brian Bowen dockings Kentucky Twitter
05/04: Next up in the NCAA's notice of allegations assembly line: The Louisville Cardinals

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

56:32 min | 3 months ago

05/04: Next up in the NCAA's notice of allegations assembly line: The Louisville Cardinals

"Scary pairs it's Monday. May Two thousand twenty welcome back to the CBS sports eye on college basketball. Podcast where we sometimes discuss Campbell fighting leaky Black Matt. Norlander is here with me and we learned earlier today. That law has received a notice of allegations from the NC double eight includes one level violation that involves improper recruiting offers. There are three level two violations including one against a former Louisville coach hall of fame coach. Rick Pitino he got the failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance violation. So in Orlando. What don't want to do is talk about these in two parts. First what does it mean for Louisville? Then what does it mean for re Patino who is of course the head basketball coach at Iona norlander? Let's start with question number one. What does this mean for little? You just love. Open the pod with these these Big Old broad ones what it means for Louisville as that it is in the crosshairs of to me the most interesting and I don't think that most damaging I don't think that when we get through all of these cases with Aa and as a reminder Louisville just the next one down the assembly line here we've already seen NC state which was the first one. Kansas which is a significant one. Usc Oklahoma State Creighton hasn't announced yet. But I believe Crayton's had some and some have still gotten yet Auburn Lsu Arizona. The schools haven't received them yet so Louisville next in line just so everyone's clear this is clearly tied to all of the Department of Justice and the FBI stuff. But what it means. I think is interesting because Louisville is a repeat offender as a program in general. Okay and we'll come to learn if that means something or not in terms of like. I said three transgressions against the rulebook since Nineteen ninety-six. Now we enter into a new era of adjudication if you will on behalf of the instability and it's not just it's committee on infractions but the separate complex case unit and what we might still get from an independent body. We can get to that in a minute there What that might still rule. We don't know if Louisville will be more severely punished because it was a repeat violator while on probation or if Louisville we'll have saved at skin to a certain degree because it cleaned house. Tom George Foreman Athletic Director gone routine. Of course gone his entire staff. Gone You bring in a new president a new aesthetic director obviously new coach new staff. And you do that to avoid heavy punishment no doubt about it but I also think you do it in hopes in hopes that two things one you can say. Look at every other school. That's been involved in this and whether the instability committee on infractions or the Aarp wound care about that remains to be seen but look at every other school. Where the only one who did this okay and to when you are inherently dealing with human beings who can say. Hey we understand. We might even agree with some of the stuff. We'll dispute some of the other facts. None of us were there. Okay you can see what we've done here and how we've changed. And and and this is I'm paraphrasing. The President who spoke by Zoom Conference call earlier today pairs how we have changed the structure of accountability with our own Athletic Department and help progressive. We've been there so to me. Luvell has a unique position situation. Compared to every other school is going to be caught up in this parish. And I can't give you. I don't think anyone can give you any strong sense or notion or any level of confidence in terms of okay. This is what's going to happen is going to be facing X. amount of scholarship productions certain fine postseason ban or not. We just don't know. So what does it mean for? Louisville is more of a. What does it mean for college sports going forward because I think this is the one particularly interesting instance? Were they cleaned house? And now we wait to see what will happen by the way. I don't think we're going to get answers on that. Minimally for like eight months it might not even be until February March April of twenty twenty one I. It's always important to point out when programs are going through this uncertainty. The undeniable uncertainty is a punishment in and of itself. Because right now everybody recruiting against little is going to use this against them like hey be careful going. Louisville they could get hit with the postseason ban. You know they've already gotten a notice of allegations and it does involve level. One violate a level one violation and remember. They were already on probation so it could be really really bad so that ended of itself is a punishment. Something that Chris. Mack and his staff will have to to work through. It doesn't make it impossible to recruit but it does make it more difficult than it otherwise would be the most famous example is North Carolina having to recruit literally for years with an NCW cloud hanging over. Its Program Roy. Williams will tell you that it prevented him from getting the type of recruits that he had normally gotten at North Carolina and there was one prospect specifically Brandon Ingram. Who is on the record saying he went to Duke? Only because North Carolina was facing possible punishment. He knew he was a one and done player. Didn't want to go to North Carolina and then get stuck playing for a program that was going to be banned from the tournament. I'm paraphrasing a bit there but essentially the point to the same right. The possibility of North Carolina being punished by the way cost them a five star prospect and Brandon Ingram and certainly others along the way. So Chris it. Staff are going to have to deal with that as for what happens after that the actual punishment like. Hey here's what we find you. Guilty of for lack of a better word and here is now what you have to deal with. You're exactly right. Nobody knows it's a guessing game for two reasons. The Louisville situation is incredibly unique. Mp The incident blaze wildly inconsistent with its punishments. Some people get a X. amount of years for a show called the people this amount of years for show called you. Try TO FIGURE OUT. Why is the one is this one is this? You never really can make sense of it so I'm not sure what's going to happen. I don't think there's much point in sitting around debating about what will happen but I do think it's an interesting conversation. What should because like you said? This is a unique situation. This is a program that has consistently cheated amd been caught cheating. Been on probation three time since one thousand nine hundred eighty six. They were long probation for a recruiting scandal when they had multiple assistant coaches out knowingly according to the incidental a breaking more recruiting rules. That's bad undeniably bad on the other hand. This is a school that fired everybody. Ad One of the best in the country. You're out a hall of fame coach. One of the greatest of all time your out multiple assistant coaches you are gone and so if you set out to punish Louisville at any sort of significant way now you are actually punishing people a coaching staff and student athletes. Who had literally nothing to do with this? That's that's the balancing act the NCWA is now dealing with. How do you think they should handle that? You know over the parish. I mean over the x amount of months or years I've I've had occasional conversations with head coaches in particular But even one person at the instability level and. I think this is important to keep in mind here. I don't think that Luvell should necessarily be absolved of everything because it cleaned house. That isn't it in and of itself is a certain kind of punishment. Scher and what? You just brought up In terms of the uncertainty also certainly has has as a real impact on it. And it's something that Louisville's representatives will no doubt about it. Make a case there but when Chris Mac takes that job he knows that something could happen and he takes it and he has a contract that it's going to protect them and actually extend his years on the deal. If and when punishments come that that Directly Affect Louisville's eligibility for the postseason tournament or other impacts. He's got he's got a friendly contract in that in that way. Okay so he's actually hit up to protect himself. But some coaches have said to me has been listen when you are being recruited whether it's a transfer or or kid out of high school it is up it is on you and your your parents your guardians whomever to know that if Louisville were to be administered and Noaa. If you will whenever that was to arrive in here we have it. We enter the month of May and Bang Boom. It happens on. May fourth that this is going to potentially be an issue so if the AA is smart about this and can get its house in order because the fact of the matter is when we talk about these things and we referenced the instability as You well know pairs as a wide margin a majority of our listenership realizes this but just to make it clear there are different silos if you will within the installation catalyst stuff the enforcement group that goes out and gets all. The evidence is not the same as the committee on fractions. Which takes the evidence and then adjudicates on it and we could still have the independent accountability resolution process which I referenced before the Aarp which is a whole new ballgame. We'll get to that in just a second but I don't have mountains of sympathy for Louisville for for Mac and his staff and the players when you knew the deal going in so the incidentally can be and I don't know what my level of confidence with on this would be interested to hear thoughts. Have it be like this? The staff is the staff. They're paid professionals. It's going to be when it's going to be but whenever this punishment gets handed down. Let's just throw out a hypothetical date because we don't know but let's just say it's Valentine's Day of two thousand twenty one okay two things in order one a- any sort of punishment that's GonNa come down and have it be effective starting in the twenty twenty one twenty two season and if that's the case then any player again who through no fault of their own. Okay that's on. The current roster has the ability to transfer where they want media probably GONNA be case. Anyway I get all that but let's just work in the world that we're in here right now. Gp give them that option okay because otherwise you committed to the school knowing. This might have been a problem to begin and so that becomes a problem as well. Okay this cannot be and will not be cover all the same way. That coaches could once upon a time. Say I don't know and that's no longer acceptable. And nor should it be and that's why potatoes in the crosshairs. What are your thoughts? I think you are mostly on the same page here and I think our opinion is unpopular. Opinion I I. I saw a column from a friend. Mike the Corsi at the sporting news. And you know he was sort of you know making the case like do we do. We really want to punish people had nothing to do with this. And I just think you have to and the reason is because you cannot have a system in place where a school can continue to cheat at a sport over and over again and then if they say hey but when we got caught we fired everybody so we don't deserve any additional serious punishment. Well then what does that do? It just frees him up to go out and buy somebody else graded. We go higher and other great coach and recruit at the same level if there's no risk of further serious punishment than than. Yeah it sucks. We had to get rid Patino. But we got Chris Mack. Like we're GONNA be fine like you. At some point. You have to punish the school you have to and I know it's unfortunate for Chris Staff like I like those guys you know. I've known him forever and I know it's unfortunate for the student. Athletes were there but this is x one of the reasons when I talked about Kris. Maybe taking the Little Job Schutte shouldn't he? It was like you gotTa to understand what you might be to asked. You might look up at two years and now you're dealing with it. Ncwa case that's going to make recruiting more difficult. Maybe lead to a postseason ban like I still think it was the right thing for him to do to take the job. But this when you were trying to weigh the pros and cons this day was one of the cons and so if you're gonNA walk into understanding that like you pointed out then you walked into it understanding that and frankly he probably got more money from low and more years based on. They knew they had to convince him. Come in. Come on and yeah you're probably GONNA have to deal with some bad stuff like we'll make it worth your while so I just I don't. I don't think you can have a system in place where it is. It is sort of understood. Hey listen if you get caught fire all the right people. We won't really hit you too bad. If You Louisville as a basketball program has to be punished whoever is in charge of Louisville Basketball Program now I do think it should be taken into account that they did fire everybody like they have restructured everything and they are now. Maybe for the first time ever trying to do things the quote unquote right way. I do think that should be considered and that should lessen the punishment and I do think that when Keynes's gets punish it should probably work the opposite way like you stood firm by everybody and dared us to do about it. Well now here. We are So I do think that it should be understood. Louisville deserves a lesser punishment than it would if Rick Pitino. We're still the coach today and those assistants were still unstaffed but the idea that the punishment should be nothing or something not serious. I just don't agree with that at all at some point. The university's gotTa be gotta be punished. And I know that we'll repeat this down the road whenever we get more information on that when they have that they have an idea. They went to respond. Louisville does and we'll see what comes with that Cetera et CETERA. Just it can't be said enough. This all happened while they were already on probation. And I just think that's going to play a significant factor. There I just do. I can't get away from that just as by the way. What also makes this particularly interesting case and I do. I think we agree that whenever this stuff comes down through the committee on factions or the AARP which by the way if if that route is taken which is what Memphis is GONNA do in Memphis will be the first school we see. Nc State is still angling to do it but our Frederik. Doyle actually look for confirmation on that in the past few days. It's actually wasn't confirmed but I think that's just a formality at this point. And then if Louisville goes down that road you don't get an appeal so what you're doing with the AARP is you're going to a judicial body if you will. That's that's made up with decorated people and law enforcement and who've worked in the courts etcetera etcetera but have no ties to the incidental. A they are a truly outsourced governing body. Okay and so the hope there is that you take everything that you have give it to them. The W we'll do the same and then reasonable people will take all of the information and decide. Okay here's what we have in. Here's how we choose to punish you. Were not in in in this way this way that way that way but whatever you get that's what you get. You cannot appeal unlike with the committee on fractions but to be fair the appeal success rate at the level is not that great as is but just keep that in mind going forward. I did want to just remind listeners. That because this is so interesting because Louisville's the only school connected to this. That had the father of a recruit testify in the case. I mean you have. This is the stuff that the answer is going to go to use against some of the stuff. I just don't see how little is going to be able to get out of the end. GonNa try and say listen. Adidas Christian Doctrines Jim these were boosters in effect with the school okay and gas. Nola WHO UNDER? Oh said that Rick Pitino known and I do believe that but you have Bowen accepting bone senior accepting a one hundred thousand dollar deal for Brian to Brooklyn Junior. Go and play at Louisville. Of course he actually received some of these details understand are hard to remember even after fact but just he received nineteen thousand five hundred dollars in a New Jersey parking lot in July of two thousand seventeen from new sued who eventually turned and became a witness for the government. That transaction happened okay. It's it's going to stick to him there. They got more money outside the Galt House. In Louisville we're Kenny. Jonsson gave Brian Bonin senior. Thirteen hundred dollars now. Johnson was reportedly surprised at this arrangement regardless it did happen and there were still more payments scheduled to be made and the only reason they didn't made was because the case broke they couldn't do anymore because the case ended because everything got exposed Christian doctrines had a semiautomatic rifles. Pulled on him in the middle of a hotel room in Manhattan in September. Two thousand seventeen. So there's a couple of other deals there as well but just as a reminder like a lot of the details here were corroborated on wiretaps or through testimony and while some stuff might be picked apart here and there I actually think that the NCWA has a fairly strong case against Louisville and its lack of compliance combined with that and the fact that it was on probation is why it makes it such an interesting case. Because I don't think it's going to get the full feel of hammer hair. Gp But I have a hard time believing who knows what could happen. But I have a hard time believing that we're going to look up. Eight ten fourteen sixteen months from now whenever this particular case is resolved which will be after Kansas. Which will be after. Nc State probably after Oklahoma state. There's GONNA keep coming down and we're going to say Wow Louisville. Got Scott Free. I just don't think that's a reasonable expectation. If you're a Louisville fan you just have to hope you can avoid. The worst of it in the worst of it to me would be a postseason ban any type of significant scholarship reductions and truly significant recruiting sanctions. That kind of handcuff your staff in terms of what they're able to do think it'll be aggressive but I don't think it will be It'll be something where you look up and you're like okay few the brow. I think it'll be somewhere in between that right and just sort of again hammer home. Exactly what we're dealing here with. I understand the argument that nobody on that campus has had anything to do with what happened but to me whether it's Chris and his staff or any of the student athletes who enroll there after the news broke after Rick. Pitino was fired it after you know that this is a possibility. It's a little bit like you're looking at a house and you're thinking about moving into this house buying this house and somebody says Melissa. Everything's fine right now but the air conditioner been acting funny. There's a cheap. It's it could go completely out within the next two years. Okay and you've got a really nice fence in the backyard. But I'm just saying I it's it's been there twenty years and it's you know leaning a little bit the wrong way and I. I'm just telling you it's likely that entire fits fault you're GONNA have to deal with that within the next three years and you say okay. I hear you I understand. I'm I'm moving in the house. Anyway that's what the staff did. And that's what these student athletes did. And so you can't really then. When the air conditioning unit goes out and the fence falls down go what now I got out of my pocket to fix this air conditioner and fix this offense like I didn't have anything to do with the damage to the air conditioner. The fans like you knew what you were walking into it. It is what it is. I can acknowledge it's not a perfect system but I just don't believe you can let programs repeat offenders get off if you will simply because they fired everybody who was involved program. The school has to be punished. And that's why I do think Louisville will be punished. Not nearly as bad I would assume as it would have been if it held onto Rick Pitino but but still but still somewhat significantly. You mentioned that I A P and that Memphis is the only school in there right now. I don't know if Louisville would go that route because the I for complex cases and the MEMPHIS CASES COMPLEX MEMPHIS PLAYING JAMES. Wiseman in defiance of the institute ABLAZE IDIOTIC. It was then and is now. It's what put them in this situation but it is a it's a unique case in the sense that you know it's not. Your typical booster bought a prospect for a school. That's that's the way it is interpreted in. The instability is a memphis booster bought a prospect for the University of Memphis. That's not really what happened. Hardaway bought James Wiseman for East High School. He really just wanted to win. A State Championship with James. Wiseman not not go to a final four with James. Wiseman now not naive enough to think that that payment to get him to move to East. High School didn't contribute to him. Also ending up at the University of Memphis but in the time that had happened it had nothing to do with the University of Memphis at the time that payment was made. Here's what was going to happen. James Wiseman was GONNA go to East High School for a couple of years and then he was GonNa go to Kentucky and play for John Kerry so that by definition just the way I explained it. It's complex case let's look at it in the AARP. I don't know of Memphis is going to regret it or not after the decision is rendered but that is by undeniably complex case. The local case is pretty straightforward. You got assistant coaches out there breaking rules and you've got a shoe company Involved in a pay for play scheme I don't really nothing. Nothing really complex cases no but unprecedented. Maybe because remember you also got Jordan Fair Cotton Hotel Room trying to work another deal For Balsa Caprivi who is now at Florida State? And so you have just a scenario here. Scenario there scenario there where it's all all encompassing and the Adva tyrod did say in the presser that they weren't leaning one way or the other in terms of that what they would recommend but he did just put it on the table so to speak. But you're right. The MEMPHIS DEAL IS MORE COMPLEX THAN LOUISVILLE. But I will say broadly speaking. I would expect. That will have at least a few schools. Try and go that route in this instance because they already probably feel like the debt could be stacked against them with the CEO is so why not try something new? I don't know if that will wind up being Lavar not but if they do think love a few schools that trying that if you look at Wrigley Doyle store in the star of the weekend like. I don't know that I would wanna go that route. I don't think like we won't know until we get a few examples of what this looks like. And and the punishments involved but you forfeit the right to have an appeal and like it's an FBI director investigating your program. Who wants that like like? They look at what they're looking at but if they find other stuff like they can burn they can rope that into the case as well coaches will tell you for decades. Now the last thing you want do is get an investigator on your campus. Because cain looking for they might not even find or find that. It's not a big deal but my God who knows what else they're gonNA find so I don't know that I'd want somebody used to work for the FBI digging through my basketball program unless it was absolutely avoidable. But like I said we're still in such a infancy phase with the AARP that I think it's difficult at this point even after reading doyle's column. I think it's difficult at this point to know if it's a good thing or a bad thing if you're a program dealing with With NC Double A. Violations but again we'll see Louisville now has ninety days to respond to the notice allegations and then I think has sixty days after that so this is a process and the last point. I'd WanNa make on. This is that I agree with you. Even if the punishment comes down I think the date use was Valentine's Day two thousand twenty one and I really hope that's not the day like I don't WanNa spend my Valentine's dealing with lables punishment. Everything's gotta be punishment for the following year. I am against in season. Postseason bans either administered by the incident. Play or self-imposed. I thought it was awful. What level did a few years ago when they self imposed postseason ban in the middle of season and ripped away the opportunity from those seniors? Some of whom were seniors who Grad transfers only went to Louisville to play in the incident of Lay Tournament Louisville. Took that away. I don't think I don't think schools should be able to do that. And I don't think the incident lay should administer a punishment that it affects a sees impacts sees if that season is already underway so hopefully whatever punishment Louisville gets if it comes in Valentine's Day two thousand twenty one it only impacts anything after the two thousand twenty twenty one season? Nothing before the two thousand twenty one twenty two season. That's fair right. Yeah that's what That's the the the little officials today by just if you didn't catch it. They were asked if they plan to self impose any penalties and the answer was one word. No so they're gonNA fight this what form they can fight it. I wish him luck. The the facts of the case don't seem to be on their side. The next question that people were asking after the news broke today. What does it mean for Rick Pitino? We'll get into that next but first check this out. Hey everybody it's Frank Stanford from Fantasy Baseball Today. Don't worry at a. Meser isn't going anywhere in neither is not. The season is delayed. But that just gives us more time to deep dive. Players ARGUE ABOUT RANKINGS. And find this year's could tell Martin regardless of what format you play in Rodeo points keeper Auction Dynasty. We've got you covered. We're here for you five days a week so make sure to download and subscribe to Fantasy Baseball. Today on Apple podcasts. Spotify and stitch bird. You're probably wondering how sports podcast can talk about sports with no live sports well. Nothing personal with David. Samson is more than just your ordinary sports podcasts. I'm David Sampson and I spent eighteen years as a president in Major League Baseball. And on this show you'll hear the truth about what's happening behind the scenes in the world of sports reading an talk entertainment with you. We are a part of the CBS sports podcast network. So nothing personal is available on apple spotify stitcher wherever else? Podcasts are found and as we all do our pardon. Continue to stay home and help flatten the curve remember. I'm here for you but it's just business. It's nothing personal. So Rick Pitino did not get a level one violation but he did get a level two violation a failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance. Rick released a statement and he plans to fight that charge but as much as I like Rick. Pitino could reasonably argue. He was promoting an atmosphere of compliance. When while on probation for having a staff member throw stripper parties in violation of rules. He's got literally two different assistance out there. Doing pay for play deals like that's A. That's a tough one. That's a little bit of a tough one here for Rick. Got Him it Not a great spot whereas I think we are. I think more agreement than we anticipated. Frankly in terms of how much we don't know what's to come with Louisville. I on like one hundred percent certain that Richton is going to face a suspension. I don't see how this is avoidable. Whatsoever now the length of it remains to be seen and I don't think that it will happen until the twenty twenty one twenty two season given the timing with all this by the way here was Patino statement. He said today the reason Noaa released in an alleged violation against me. I firmly disagree with salvation. We'll follow the protocols and addressing this allegation through the administrative process due to instability bylaws public disclosure on enforcement issues. I will have no further comment on this matter until it is resolved. Just for the record. Iona did put out a two sentence statement or three sentence statement said. We are aware of the report the insulation process to address the allegations prior to hiring coach. Pitino. We conducted extensive due diligence. We support coach. Pitino and expect them to respond within the process. If you're iona story hasn't changed. You knew this was coming and you get rid of Tino on your campus. You're GONNA take them any way possible and hope that he can bring the glory back to the Mac. I will note. Gps PATINO GETTING IONA to the elite eight by two thousand twenty four. So we'll see if that can go down. Pitino was charged with failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance. This is a broad interpretation by the incidentally that frankly is extremely hard to win over. You need to provide the amount of evidence that you have to provide to win over. That charge is almost impossible. And in fact in this case Patina will not be able to do it when you eliminate any of the other allegations and just get down to the facts that Pitino had the program on probation. He had two assistants who were caught breaking. Ncwa rules doing so while on probation that that alone in addition to the other things that are going to tack onto. Patino in particular is going to get him suspended now. The length of it remains to be seen in terms of how severe it is perish. But I think it's going to be a minimum of six games at this point you actually. He is subject to a show cause penalty because of the fact that he was on he was in charge of a program which then was a not. Just a repeat violator but I have to think that the timeliness of all this by the way is going to is going to play a part as well. There's a difference between. Let's say you run a program and you and you you run a foul in ninety two and then you're free and clear until two thousand seventeen. That's very different from heaven. An issue into the mid twenty tens and this resurfacing again in two thousand seventeen. So you with me here. You know in that. Pitino going to hit with the suspension. I I just don't see how it's avoidable I don't see audible. They can do up to a half of the season. So let's just say for the sake of the conversations ten games rick furious but like if you're I own or you're like okay do the Rick's associate head. Coach will handle ten games. And Guess What Rick. Pitino is still coaching at Iona. Like who cares so. Yeah like if I might like some people. This is the point I made when I own a hired rick. People were like will like what happens if what happens if want what. Okay Rick Pitino is GonNa miss half of a season you still Rick Pitino coaching. I own like it's still a win. In fact like I've had this conversation about the situation with other people. There's a bill self could be suspended for a year. Yes and somebody said well then you just got to fire him and I had a college coach. Say why just keep it just like the it a year. Okay if you fire bill self and have to hire somebody else in a year. Are you better off with that person or just having bill self you know they just keep bill self? Like pretend that he's like nobody was making light of anything but it was like pretend that he's been diagnosed with something that makes them have to step away from the sport for year but he'll be back in a year like when. Mick Cronin had to step away from Cincinnati for much of a season it was just like he'll be back to just treat it exactly like that so that's bill self at Keynes's with a year suspension. If it comes to that and it Keynes's you really can probably go out and hire something close to bill self to replace. Bill self coaches like bill self owner. You can't get anybody close to rip Patino so like if it's six games. Ten Games fifteen games. I I don't even care like I still got rick. Pitino as my coach. I'm good to go but you know I should. I should say I am somebody who does genuinely believe Rick. Pitino did not know about the stuff that's happened within his program like I. I've explained a million times. It is impossible for me to believe he knew about the stripper parties. If only because they were so reckless he would have shut them down or at least move them. You don't have them on campus in a dorm named after your late brother-in-law with cameras everywhere. Like that's just dumb like even if you you were ahead coat and believed that stripper parties was the way to get the recruits. You wanted you were signing off on it. You'd be like take off campus like did you. Don't bring it onto campus where there's cameras everywhere so there's just no way you ever convince me. He knew about those with the Brian. Bow and stuff I do. I don't I don't think he knew but I think it's only if I'm being I don't think it's only because he just didn't want to know the incident. Blake even made that point like you should've known you knew other schools were bidding for him. You knew that you hadn't really recruited him but suddenly somebody's reaching out to you. Ask if you want and like every red flag was there. If you wanted to see it you just chose not to see it and so when you know but but still like do I think Rick Pitino knew how much money Adidas had agreed to give Brian Bowen senior. No I think but only like I mentioned resupply. Maybe multiple recent PODCASTS. I'm watching succession. And there's a point in season one where somebody's talking to somebody else about something and they just stay stop. I don't need to know anything else that you're saying. I don't want to hear this. Just do you do what you need to do. And I don't I don't know enough. I don't need to hear this. I essentially think that's what happened with Rick but again when you've got in a span of a couple of years one assistant coach throwing stripper parties to other assistant coaches involved in pay for play schemes separately. Like it's impossible to convince anybody. You are promoting an atmospheric compliance. I actually set in and I. Don't think puzzling mommy telling the story so. I'll just tell the story L. I probably told it fifty times before but I was at Virginia Tech in buzzes first year. And I actually sat in on a coaching coaches meeting in his entire staff in there and he had a copy of his contract and I forget how much was guaranteed but it was lots of millions of dollars in contract and buzz was talking to a staff and he said the only way they don't give me all of this money. Let's just say it was like twenty million dollars the only way they don't have to pay me. Every penny of this money is if I or you get caught violating. Ncwa rules. So I am telling you do not cost me twenty million dollars under no pressure to get players if it comes at if it comes with a goes hand in hand with you costing me twenty twenty million dollars. We're not going to do it. I would rather have no players. Then lose twenty million dollars because one of you did something stupid so i WanNa make it very very clear. This is one of those where I don't need to know. Go Out and do your thing. I'm telling you you do not cost me twenty million dollars and if I find out you're putting me in a situation where it might cost me twenty million dollars then. I will fire you immediately. Now he might have been doing that in front of me just so that if it ever came to it if he ever got hit with a failure to promote a atmosphere compliance. And you could have me talk to the incident. Play and say listen. I don't know if that's going to help the case like Gary Gary was there when I told my staff when I was promoting atmosphere of compliance. But like either way he did that with Rick Either. One of two things happened here either. He didn't make it crystal clear to his assistant. Coaches dudes like. We used to do what we used to. Do you guys use to do what you used to do. But we're on our last leg year. Now we get involved in something else. It's it's over for all of us. You can't do anything. He didn't make that crystal clear to them while promoting and atmospheric appliance or he did his assistance. Just didn't care either way. That's a problem. I think you know. Rick is paid an enormous price you know. He's coaching ione. Instead of Louisville but he will pay an additional pricing. It will be a suspension. I don't see any way that I will I do WANNA credit Our friend Sam with Yahoo because he brought this up when all. This is coming out earlier on Monday. that I mentioned that the show cost. That's because there could be aggravating factors on top of the level to violation so he's quoting from the instability rule here Bylaw nineteen point nine point. Three one aggravating factor would be a history of level one or level two major violations by the by the involved individual which came Back in two thousand seventeen win. Patino violated Responsibility rules when he didn't Probably monitors program and then another one. could be other factors warranting a higher penalty And families Tweet here says at. The type of team failed to promote compliance in the men's basketball program as detailed an allegation number three as he was awaiting a decision from the painting on fractions and subsequently subject to a show cause order as a result of this decision a level one head coach responsibility infraction. So there could still be more things that come Land Pitino's doorstep. Here will wait and see on that overall. I don't think it will get to aggressively bad against him. But it's not without its within the realm of possibility overall. Gp But I will say you know looking back on on this now. We are coming up on three years since Bowen Brian Bowen Junior committed to Louisville. And when that happened he was a five star prospect. He was the only committed five star prospect and. I want to say like three weeks. Before he committed to Louisville. That's when I just kind of started asking around here and they're like what's with this one kid. His his his finalist list always change. The schools aren't remotely connected. Obviously it was fishy but I was just trying to get a better read on it. And it's like you already know the deal here in the point is I already knew the deal. Patino not knowing. The deal is not acceptable. Okay he doesn't WanNa know it and for guys who have been involved in basketball since the seventies and still be like we. I mean talk about luck luck. We got this five star. That's coming in next season that commits to us. I didn't even recruit the kid I when we talked about this when the FBI step. I popped like one of the points. I made the only other time I could remember a coach telling a recruiting story like Rick's recruiting story with Brian. Bowen in Rick Story was just like you said we didn't even recruit him phone rings one day. They're like hey. Would you be interested in Brian? Bolland I'm like a couple of weeks later. He's on campus and he's committed like boom. It was amazing and never seen anything like it. The only other time it ever heard a coat. Tell a similar story about a five star recruit. Tim Floyd Oh Jimmy Tim Floyd story about. Og Mail was the same thing phone rings one day. Somebody's not male is considered the best high school prospect that America. And somebody call my 'cause you hey would you be interested in? Oj May own. Tim's like I guess what if you don't know I don't even WanNa go down the path of if you don't of course you know you. Just here's the truth if you want me to rationalize it from Rick's perspective. Here's the if you're Rick Pitino. You're like all right. Listen this is clearly fishy. I I know what's going on but I know this program over here is taken players the exact same way. Maybe there's a program in my own state taken player the exact same way. I'm just GONNA like. Why do I need to be the guy to turn away the five star prospect? I'm not the one. Get my hands dirty. I'm not the one prompted anybody. Anything like all these other players are enrolling. All these other places was shoe company. Help why do I to be the one to stand up and say well no? I know that this can't be on the up and up. Why do I gotta be that? Guy? This is why why does Williams could never trust you to be the guy to go the instead cousin. Dan Programs already on probation. This happening. That's why I tell you what I. In retrospect I mean Boeing's commitment to Louisville really signaled one of the more disruptive moments I guess one of the more disruptive commitments in Modern College History. Because it's the pledge that really helped the government's case that would lead to the arrest and guilty charges against ten men for wire fraud conspiracy other all those other charges and it set the table for what happened later that year in college basketball isn't the only thing. But it was like Boeing. Going to play for Louisville was at the centerpiece of the of the first of the two trials. There it's obviously the commitment that pushed a hall of fame coach out of the job that he thought he finished out his career at Louisville Athletic Director. Tom George fired and so much more. It's I mean if we could go back in time to mid. May of two thousand seventeen and just like say. Hey listen. There's going to be a commitment. That's coming here and you can't even imagine how much just general noise and disruption millions upon millions of dollars. Taxpayer dollars are going to be put into this with college basketball. It's fascinating to look back on it. And it all came when Bowen and his father really agreeing to To a six figure payment from Adidas and dolphins and all that It's it's something else man so anyway Last thing I got us I just I just think that Patino can't avoid all this. You just gotTa hope that the exacerbating charges. Don't come into play as well because it does. Then we might look at more than just a simple six or ten game suspension. Do you know how much I miss. May of two thousand seventeen would kill to be in. May of two thousand seventy I hear Ya I know I I mean we are recording. Bless my lovely wife. I love you Diane. I'M GONNA say it on a podcast to I don't know how many people she'll never hear this. Today's are at seven year wedding anniversary. And I'm spending the evening hour with Gary Parrish Talking About frigging Brian Bowen Louisville and Rick Pitino. There's not even the worst part. The worst part is because you're option was like to what you want to go to a nice dinner or even go to the grocery store without a mask like the whole like I got. I should always say this. I don't want anybody to think otherwise I've got it better than most families healthy We're doing okay relatively speaking. But like I got down this weekend like I found myself just SORTA. I don't WanNA use the word depressed because that's a a a legitimate term and people really do struggle with depression. I'm not struggling with depression but I felt I just felt down. I felt miserable. Like this is an awful way to live. And we're not going to be lifting the other white for a while. Well I mean you. You appear to have options because a lot of people are starting to Oh Dude you better be glad you live where you live instead of where I live. I'm I am. Connecticut is keeping it. Stay at home orders in place for a few more weeks here and I'm completely fine with that will we'll grin and bear it and and do it out but yeah no south done with it at that. They're over. It said you know what I don't care anymore. I one of my neighbors actually said to me. I don't care if I get it. He just said if I get it. I'll probably be fine and if I'm not was just too bad but I'm not. I'm tired of living this way. So he had eight kids playing basketball on his yard the other day. It's wild I. It's it's so depressing. It's if you think about it because like I was talking with my white like down here. Stores can reopen restaurants can reopen. My wife owns a store. She has not reopened yet. She's been allowed to for nearly two weeks now. She's just hasn't opened yet. But is this is really the world like it's going to be this way for a while like the next time you go into a restaurant and eat a meal like you did in. January is maybe a year away Yup. What in what happened. I'm about to go do a little red velvet cupcake action here. Okay so all right. Hey seven years. What did bless yes. Yes yes or no. Oh bless her. No I don't even WanNa know what you're GONNA ask here. Okay I didn't I I D- D- biding night. Of course not work. Of course not. You're bite or you don't even bite on your. I am not and that has not a has not been the case however you will. You will propagate the lion that it's just fine as we close. GimMe one each share. Even though it's not your wedding anniversary it might as well be ours you may GP in addition to me in my own wife here. Give me one quick story about your wedding day and I got. I got one for you as well. You my wife and I got married in Jamaica. I did not know that really were well. We were young and we didn't have. I mean like we were young. My wife was twenty one years old when we got married and we didn't have much money beat writer working at a newspaper. She was a college student. Steel and so neither one of our parents come from money. It was just it made more financial sense to just leave the country and get married and then. I didn't want to. I felt bad because most of my friends were like me. They didn't have money to go to Jamaica. I felt bad now. I have subsequently gone out of the country for other friend's weddings. But I felt bad asking anybody to go because I didn't want pull who didn't have the money together to go because they felt obligated to go so we went alone and we got married. And my best man was a Jamaican do that. I've never met and okay. You know this is all a real story because you have a witnesses. You'd have people in the thing. I shouldn't say best Mike. He's my best friend now whereas he can he can he? Now get the shouts. I think his name is like on our weddings. GotTa Find Find It. And he's got to get a shout on the next episode. Get it done. It's actually sad like it's it's it's this like I don't really care but like my I think my wife looks back on it with some regret. There there are many reasons variety of reasons but Like why did we even do it period but now my wedding day was not. There's nothing great about it. We we were too young people who didn't have a money to do it. The right or at least we didn't think we did. Maybe that maybe that was more of the case the night but like I don't I don't have this great wedding store. I got a lot of good ones but I will I'll save them all. Share one but for the record you were invited to the wedding and you didn't do member why of course you know. I think I had to host something yet a some BS. Yeah you had to do something but I think it was fixing classic with that it was it was may fourth so it was actually when when. I got married it was. It was a Saturday so like the Kentucky Derby run that day. I assume you had to do something. Related to the Kentucky Derby happening locally but by the Kentucky Derby I think it was if I remember correctly I had to host something you did. I'm sure it was some contractual thing. So you didn't you did not You did not attend awesome day genuinely like the our wedding kick ass and And we had our friends to this day. It'd be like years. The one the one we got married in Stanford Connecticut but we had a Fryer who married us. And you know. I was just so excited about that day. I didn't really have any sort of nerves or anything like that. But let's say we were scheduled to let's say the Let's say the wedding getting married. Part of it was about at four thirty. Let's say it was supposed to start like four twenty three rolls around in. No one knows where the dude that's supposed to marry us as at and so I like it then it gets like. I'm on the state we got married in like this cool big tent and the way it was working with Diane will walk in from the hotel and and and kind of emerge around. The corner was awesome. But it's like it's like four twenty three and I'm up there with. I have three younger brothers and then three of Two A two buddies. I went to college within my my brother-in-law so I I six groomsmen so we're all up there and he's not there yet and it's getting to. I actually had another buddy from college in the audience who I don't remember all the details around it but he you know how you can get ordained online. He done that like he had done that like five years before so I was no exaggeration. I was about sixty seconds away from stepping down off the platform. Bashir and go up to my bud Bashir and being like dude. I think you've got to marry me right now. I don't know where this damn friar is. I don't know like I was getting legitimately nervous and just as I'm about to do it His name his name was Matthew Friar Matthew turns a corner and there appears and I'm like So it was like the one part of the entire day rows like Oh God thank God thank God. I didn't realize how tense my body was getting because it was like can't do this to my wife can't have no one marrying us can't have this but he So we got married in Stanford Connecticut and those who know the area It can it can get some serious traffic and stuff like that and he apparently got lost but we got it done in time and it was an amazing got Jamaican you know. Here's my wedding day. We woke up probably with hangovers from the night before went down at the beach. Hung out for a little while then looked at the clock and was like Oh. It's two o'clock we're getting married in our. Let's go get ready boom. Go get ready. You know I get I get my my best friend my my best Jamaican Fran. We go through the little you know. Say all the words and she says all the where she's supposed to say kiss the bride. We cut up a cake with with our friends and then we went back inside and change back into our brains back to beach. Oh my gosh I never knew any of this. It's actually said I mean that like I look back on it with. I don't look back with regret getting married like Van. I got three amazing boys incredible family but I wish that I wish that we had done it differently. I guess just differently. Like my wife didn't have her mom at her wedding. Like the her as it should. Okay real quick because then like I I gotta go like I got obviously but what. What Year did you get married? Please tell me you remember two thousand three all right so twenty twenty three. We renew the vows. We do it right right there in Memphis. I'm putting it on the table right now. You got you got three years and we should be able to convene as a normal society by then. I would really hope we see as Minton doing that before. Like like you know really having our friends you should apps. I'm not I'm not joking with you. This would be incredible. Okay get some classic anecdotes for the PODCAST. You got three years to prep. Maybe I gotTa make some calls here. We should honestly. You should make that happen. I don't think I don't think you would regret it whatsoever and it would be and you know what actually it would be as well by the way there's There's this I can't remember told me that this there's one thing that's always true about a wedding with you. It's actually has been true as well is. You'll get all these people and Ramona's awesome like I'm still so close with so many people but there's always at least one person who will go to your wedding and then you will never see them again and it's true. There have been a couple of people that we've not seen since our wedding day for you. Twenty Years Post. It would actually be like strongly. And so that was true. Because you're Jamaican Dude. You haven't seen him again for you. a party of three or four essentially. And and. Yeah so there you go but you would. You would truly be able to to bring in a party at people that have been representative of who have been in your life for so long and then have been part of it now in in our task your kids and all that stuff so yeah twenty twenty three. Let's make it happen. Let's get it done. Probably it'd probably be sweet. I'll put it I'll put it on the possible to do list in the meantime shout down. He shouts at Chester South Carolina. Jousted TERRY MFN teagle edge. Just to learn now. Please go on college. Basketball podcast. Apple podcast rated favourably five-star comments. And we will talk to you again. Real soon tilden take care the PGA tour has an official return date and the first cut on the CBS. Sports podcast network is here to get you prepared for. Golf's return in June joined. Mark Immelman Kyle Porter Greg. Ducharme and myself regained. Were still coming at you three times a week with the latest news interviews and flashbacks. So what are you waiting for? Come join our group. And let's talk golf download and subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher and anywhere else. Podcasts are found.

Louisville Rick Pitino AARP basketball Patino Rick Brian Bowen FBI Memphis Chris North Carolina NC Kansas CBS Chris Mack Luvell NC NCWA
Ep. 78 - Hall of Fame Coach: Rick Pitino

The Sidelines with Evan Daniel

28:37 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 78 - Hall of Fame Coach: Rick Pitino

"Hall of fame coaches, national champions lottery picks the best minds in basketball, welcome into the sidelines with Daniels basketball fans. Welcome back into the sidelines podcast. I'm your host seven Daniels college basketball insider over at f s one as well as the director of basketball recruiting at twenty four, seven sports. Today's episode of the sidelines podcast is the seventy eight episode and the featured guest is hollow fame, basketball coach, Rick Pitino Patino, and I had a spirited conversation that dug into a wide variety of topics. We discussed his book that he just released and what he hoped to accomplish with it. Patino went in depth on what happened at Louisville. He gives his take on the ongoing trial that involves a Dita's in college basketball coaches, plus he touches on if he'll coach again, before we get to that conversation with Patino to make sure that you are supporting this podcast, the best way for. For you to do that. It's a shoot over to apple podcasts and or your favorite podcast app hit this scribe button for me, but also leave me a rating in a review. Those things are extremely helpful. You could also shoot me a note over on Twitter or Instagram, the handles at Evan Daniels. Now let's jump to that interview with Hala fame, basketball coach, Rick Pitino. It's time to go. Seven Daniels send it in big foul-up. Welcome in holidaying basketball coach, Rick Pitino to the sidelines podcast. Coach, I, I know you've been busy promoting your book and go into practice. Appreciate you taking the time out. How are things angel? Well, busy, and which is something I, I want and in New York City right now, they'll be around x. week, I know you just came out with your book Patino my story, which Winton stores earlier this month, Rick. Walk me through this process of making this book and of why you wanted to do it. Well, you know when when everything broke, they would just so many lies that really disturbed me. And you know, today we see all around you. You really guilty until proven innocent is no such thing anymore as innocent until proven guilty. It's just the opposite today and you can't complain about it just the way it is. And I wrote the book realizing that you know it's for me to just keep telling people. No, I didn't. No, no, I didn't know is. Waste of time. I took the book to serve both as a memoir for long coaching career as well as to just tell the truth about what really happened. What's the feedback the reaction been like so far? You know the only everybody says is such an easy read, they really enjoyed it, but those are the people that you know, aid, ninety percent of those people people, you know, and they're going to complement the ten percent that that really don't know me said that they found a lot in the book they didn't know about me and they found it into an interesting read. Do you think you were able to accomplish what you wanted to accomplish with it? As far as I'm concerned? Yes, one hundred percent because it told the truth of the under McGee situation it it brought. I explained how the shoe companies evolved from Chuck Taylor and converse all the way up to the mega million dollar industry that you see today and how the universities have paid had aggress roots stayed, and then it went into the total scam and it is a total skin of what the. US southern district of New York and the US attorney did to me. You mentioned the FBI's investigation. Actually the first of three trials start this week and you're not involved in the trials, but really, you're impacted as much as any person involved with basketball because of this? Well, every every other university waited to find out if someone was innocent guilty and the the boy to trustees team versatile. Really that connected with university of little on any way except to do to govern his deeds just decided to fire time jerks and meat. So unfortunately, we ran into a board that was not in favor of us and every other university. They waited to see if the coach was guilty. You've had such a career Hala fame final fours at three different schools, multiple national championships, but scandal kind of crept in there the last couple years. Where do you think things went wrong? Rick? You know, a lot of people say that I got away from hiring the right people, but you know, it's, it's. Sort of run out of people at what when you coach as long as I have, he's sorta run out after, you know, under McGee with somebody who was Mike happen, everybody had nothing but great things to say about him. He was a dean's list student. He's not someone that was raised incorrectly to dutiful parents, both highly educated. So this is just a young man who just did the wrong things. No run the reason for doing it because you're not gonna move up a lot of that way. All you gotta do ruin your life which he did. And then as far as Jordan fail was concerned, he was vetted out. He was taught the right thing and I meant to over thirty some odd assistance over forty some systems, the exact same way, and the mid ninety percent of them turned out to be pretty darn good, sir. I think probably the comment or stuff that I've written seen written regarding this situation the most is how could you not know what happened with Brian villain or or Andrea MaGee? What's kind of your response to that when you hear. That you know that that's just flat out dumb. I mean, really is if you just if you weren't so damn lazy if people weren't so damn lazy, they could easily find out the answer because if you speak to any assistant coach that worked for me, if you speak to Kevin Willett route word, Mick Cronin, Marvin Menzies, Steve mess, yellow Waltham, pick whether you wanna pick then wanna say, hey, he he's taught us the rules. He absolutely had no knowledge. The NC double a. came out and said, I had no knowledge. Why do you think they would slap me on the wrist and only give me five games and everybody else's getting eleven and thirteen games you'd think they knew that I knew about striptease and sex acts in a dormitory that they wouldn't ban me for five years. So you have to do is have a little commonsense and you'd realize that I'm probably out of everybody. I'd be the last person in the world that under McGee would want to find out about this because plays would immediately. I would have played probably with about five, six players on my team for until I could re restock because those plays would have immediately been off the team. So it's really, really, it's really insulting to someone's intellect to anyone to say, how could he not know all you have to do is just take take a day and just do your homework and you wouldn't make such an outlandish coming. You wrote this book. When you look back on what you wrote, was there anything that you wish you it included in it or something that you left out that you wish you had put in it looking back? No, not really. I covered everything I've wanted to cover anything else would have been old news. You know, if you talking about something that happened in the past, it's already been reported on this was just to deal with my career the last few years. The only thing in the book I can't say with one hundred percent accuracy is whether the governor I not governed is behind hiring the board of trustees. I noted governor had a pot in everything that went on. It's either the governor David Grissom that pulled the strings to make to squash probe. AM, Rick. What do you think people getting wrong about you all this? I don't know if you read the book that's exactly the truth. So you know, I'm not someone that weeds a lot about myself, but if you read the book, you'll gonna get the truth and you wouldn't make dumb statement like, oh, how could he not know? He knows everybody's body fat. Well, the fact that the AA spoke over a hundred people, they did that homework what people's just get off their ass and and stop being so lazy and do their own homework instead of just saying, he has to know he knows everything went in fact, you'd realize I'd be less person to know I, if the assistant coaches didn't know if the if six players on the team that Luke handcock Stephen entries and those guys who assume the NC double. I've been living in dormitory invaded, no. Why would somebody make that statement that he had to know? And his is another interesting thing that I just found out three days ago. Remember LIZA Justice, gentle. He called me just to see how I was doing. And we would small talking. That's we just got around Tyson bulletin. You believe that under Negi with such a bright career ahead of him would do such a thing. And he said, coach. My wall backed up to his wall. I didn't know that I said he said I had the room next to, and I never saw a single thing. I said, you know, I wish you would have told me that sooner. He said, well, nobody's really asked me, but everybody that I speak to. I tell him that he said, coach, I never saw a single thing, and my wall backed up his law and for anybody out there listening, you don't know Elisa Justice like evident. I do. He's probably the most honorable most spiritual as good as young man. There is to play on any basketball team, so he, he would not mislead a to anyone. Tennis, which in gears coach because of this FBI investigation the NC double as made changes to number of rules, especially in the recruiting arena. If you could change one thing about college Vassil rules, what would it be? You know, I'd say the book that I like an athlete to be able to to basically sell his likeness, but they come back to the opposites that would come back and say, okay, so Rick Pitino is a great basketball player. He's intelligent a college scholarship, and I'm at the university of Kentucky. Oh, let's say I'm Georgia and I do a call commercial like any other students can do a caucus and they give me a free call for doing the commercial. Well, the critics will say the people taken up do point. Well, if you're in Alabama and you do call commercial, you'll be driving a Mercedes. So you know the big programs getting richer and obviously, you know, people can make a hundred two hundred thousand dollars. So I'm not sure the company's rice says the same thing. You should be able to sell your like this. I'm. Not sure about that because wins it, stop the Alabama and the Kentucky's our world to do a commercial. You can make a lot more is if you were at Saint Joe's or Villanova. So if I had the one thing, I do say the book that the NC double a. is very reactive. They react to a crisis and they tried to solve the problem, but they're not proactive. You remember the press conference. I had four years ago where I said we gotta get the shoe shoe industry out of recruiting. Well, every single coach knows that the shoe industry is heavily involved in recruiting and you know it better than anybody and the NCWA knows it. They've been told that, but they did nothing about it because you can't just like me. I was being paid millions of dollars by shoe company. So you know, a lot of people don't wanna bite the hand that feeds them ever university now of major university with a major football programs, getting paid two hundred million to fifty million dollars, and that can generate all the non revenue sports to have a first class program. So definitely not gonna bite the feeds him. But now when the skin breaks, everybody said, well, why didn't. Global, you know, everybody's. Why didn't pull out of the deal if Dita's came in and try Tom university of Louisville, which I don't believe is true then why don't they drop the contract? So you know, that's the NC double a. they, they know what's going on. They can't prove it. Like, you know, someone said, I just reading someone's some AP thing today, personnel checks and you. You can attest to this. How many times do you get a text message saying that school x. offered a kid, a hundred hundred fifty, two hundred thousand dollars since you've been a writing may happen to you. Probably gun that text. I don't know. Thirty times probably more okay. Thirty times more. Well, I got one that's from a a person that's not involved in the game of basketball, and he was upset because the his friend and assistant coach, Paul got fired and they hired these two of the people. He shot me a text and said that a. Some depan offer two hundred thousand to the bullet. I took it to Kenny Jonsson. What do you think he said? I don't believe it because you know, we ask them which schools was involved in. They mentioned five schools even mentioned that if Boeing was crooked, he would've taken into under thousand. So I said, that's a good point. Well, how the these lawyers that the university? Hi, it's well, why didn't you go to compliance? I'd be going to complain every day for room. I hear compliance within turn around said, okay. What proof do you have? Well, guy who's not coaching basketball shot me a text and, and he's you have a d- what proof theat? I, I don't have any proof. It's just gossip. It's just if you go on the internet. If you go on the internet, you'll find out people saying that probably hundreds of times. So there's no evidence at all. And I could say that people in the business that I know highly credible. I've been people tell me that the Mace famous cultures in the game of pain place. I wouldn't think for second that eight to be true or be I had any any. Any witnesses that can attest to that. So you know it just it's, it's just not something that you repeat if it's gossiping, that's that's what the internet is all about. It's false accusations. It's gossip people venting because they don't like another guy that got fired on got hired, so it's it's, it was foolish by the university, even put that out there. The text, I usually get like that or hearsay of really a lot of times people upset, king committed other places, or they must have done this to get him that type thing. That type of stuff happens sour grapes all the time. Then I can't tell you how many times my assistant coaches when we lose a player that we really wanted, say school x. bought a. You know, desisting coach, that's number one, excuse the school seated rather than just give him credit and move on the other school cheated. So you know, and I was shocked that that these people, these lawyers university would come out and put that public on gossip, and hearsay would not a shred of evidence. Why did I go to compliance guys? It's gossip. There's not a shred of evidence. The person saying had no knowledge of it. So you know, it was so silly of them. It just goes to show you how little they know about the game today. Was there point in your career where you felt like or could see shoot company's involvement getting bigger in recruiting? Yeah. I said it four years ago when I had that press Concord's I dating need to look the problem the the the, the coaches today that are making five, six, seven million, four million, not gonna cheat and then their reputation or room. They're not gonna do that cheating happening at the lowest levels. Look, let's take, let's take a one and done basketball player and. Say he goes to school ex, do you think the first time agent is talking to his uncle, his grandparents or his parents talking to them is when he's ready is the Clarin April? No, of course not get real. They're they're talking to when he's a sophomore in high school. So they're talking to when he's on an not. I've always I've always felt that the played themselves, the athlete themselves eighty to ninety percent of the time has no knowledge of these wrongdoings that are going on. I still concur that brief that that Brian Bowen and coached in the pros probably and Boeing and and and his mom did not know what was going on now I could be wrong. I have no proof to say they, they did not know, but I don't. Brian Bowen. Never ever even gave a hint of asking for anything nine of those money's dead in Christian Dawkins. When he was on the visit was quiet. as a church, mouse. So you know, I, I know what happened and that's why it's in that book. So what's next coach? What's next for you? Well, I'm going around a lot of speaking to college teams observing practice. I have a podcast like yours coming out and on toba sixteenth. First guest is to Billy the kid down of into segments, and then I'm gonna have a lot of people in not just basketball, but in all sports come on and you know that'll tie up a little bit of my time, but I really don't know. I don't know what's next. I said I don't wanna coach anymore because I feel stress. I've always felt. I've always said this times, pressures your ally in life. I remember having a conversation with JIMBO venom, Intel that stresses the enemy of light that it broke down his immune system. He couldn't fight it when the NCW him at NC state. He felt all that stretch broke down his immune system. Now I. Said that the Bob event one time they didn't tell you say yes or no question Jim believe that. So I don't wanna get into special situation where it breaks and makes me unhealthy. Fortunately no. I mean, great shape. I am very healthy and all the time off worked out three times a day, but I'm just so tired of the lies and the and the people that come out. And so we had to know too so tired of it because it's it makes no sense. None of it makes any sense. Directional person would. No. I'm not going to when I've recruited all my life guys like ring Geos, not ranked in the top sixty rookie Zhang? Zhang's not ranked in top eighty Jamal Mashburn it wasn't ranked in the top seventy. Russ Smith wasn't ranked Donovan Mitchell who wasn't in the top forty when I've spent my life recruiting players like that and getting done. Probably wasn't even ranked in his neighborhood. When when when I coach people like that, I don't wanna hear that that I need Brian Bowen to to make a great basketball team. I felt we had a final four team coming back. I didn't mean Brian solidify study right now would I have liked to have him? Yes, he's a good basketball player and certainly put his name in the draft and eating get drafted either around. I thought he could develop. He wasn't a freak athle- but had good size, good head on his shoulders. I show men with was willing to work on. So if the high major school called you next year, you can listen, I probably wouldn't. That's the way of feel right now now, but that's the bitterness talking because I am very bitter at the southern district of New York. The guy who used me for publicity, forgot his name. I got the, he suddenly probably hailing white collar crime. He's no longer with them. I know why it's my name in there because he didn't only had was some skin on his saying ally about me. He didn't. You don't put someone's name in there and you try to disguise it as always from a school of twenty thousand one hundred people. He's Tokes to. It takes a second grader figure out who that was and then you go onto your private business. You make two three million years of private lawyer and you damaged. Someone's reputation, got him fired without a shred of evidence. Nothing. They've Wyatt everybody. They don't have any wiretaps because they did. They would know one hundred percent is because somebody ever mentioned the dollar to be on the phone. I'd immediately have them fired. Do you miss being on the silence? Oh, this terribly, you know, it's you taking someone who did three to four individuals structures in between class time, then obviously had practiced and watch video night, call recruits for forty some odd years, including professional basketball, and suddenly you just wipe the cop out from under a scene with out any proof that that I'm guilty of anything. Sure. Miss terribly. But on the other end, I'm I'm tired of of dumb questions. You know, Doug tied them like like you had to know or or you should have meant nothing people you should've known. And then when I tell them, well, don't you think that if I should have known, I'd have to be in that dormitory of one in the morning when they were sneaking women. Through a side door. And I, I just told you that the person who's warmed back up to him didn't know. So like I said, I, I've been, you know, I went around on investigator. I spoke to twenty manages grilled. My system coaches, grilled. His best friends grow manages players, and nobody knew there were obviously five, six plays in the team that part in those things and they owned up to the truth. Now in the past coach, you've mentioned the me that broadcasting, interests you is that's the case. Not particularly, you know, it's, it's. Right now looking for some other passionate life. I, I don't know what it is though. I'm looking, I'm in search of it, but I just don't know what it is, and it's kind of exciting in a way to try and find that passion, but I really don't know what it is so, but I'm gonna keep trying keep trying to find it. But when you coach forty one years and suddenly you're not coaching, you've got to do a lot of thinking, and you've got to arrive at a conclusion that you may not coach again, and that's pretty much where I'm at today. So let's assume your coaching career is over. When you look back, what do you think is the greatest achievement of your coaching career? Well, I think it's, I don't think there's one single thing. I think anything he puts a long period time of very, very proud of thirty assistant coaches that moved on to be head coaches and the leader of men very. Proud of seven final fours to national championships, and I don't wanna hear somebody say they took down van of because you, you know, when you think of what the MC AA is, incidentally is a group of committees. They've basketball committee, they have a committee that we went in front of. And you mean to tell me that. That my basketball team did not take steroids did not do drugs did not cheat on exams to to get eligible, did not have somebody take their SAT racy TS to to get a scholarship, what they did was reprehensible behavior, dormitory, but that had nothing to do with their performance on a basketball court. It didn't make them jump higher, run faster. It didn't make them get an edge over Michigan or Wichita state. So it's it's absurd an- it's insulting to some someone's intellect that they that they took a better them. And that's why the play is a little bit suing the NC double a. they win. I think they're gonna strong case because the NCWA saying students can sue them, but students can make them a billion dollar industry with much madness. They would defame everywhere they go, you know, you, you cheated to win and that type of stuff. So they got a strong case. I think when everything, when I'm done with the university of level and I'm done with the seeing how everything's gonna turn out with with this southern district of New York. I think that I'll I'll I'll be actively about the cases, well, oh my own case. Now we'll say this. There's only one way I'll go back into coaching, I'm sure of. And that's at the southern district of New York apologizes for what they did to me and to if the university logo board of trustees, apologizes for the action they took. If that happens, I'm running into coaching and I don't care what level that. So you can. You can. You can almost be guaranteed that I won't be coaching. I know you're, you're traveling around meeting with teams and talking to teams. What do you kinda hope to accomplish with that? And what's that entail? Well, I'm going to, you know, I wanna see a maybe watching, obviously, a lot of games this year and like like you like anybody else. I'm going to predict who I think can get to a final four. I'm gonna predict what great teams there are in the country, which ones have a lot of potential which ones need to get better too seriously make a run. So the TV actively involved in the game. I know you recently joined Twitter to Twitter handle is at real Patino. What made you want to jump on their well really to to announce my podcast each time and who I'm going to have and also to give me a voice, an active voice and things had some funnel. So I don't get. I know people say will twins cesspool for anonymous insults. But you know what I do. Tweet is I send it to someone, they tweet it out. They get all the the crap said back them, so I don't have to deal with all the notifications. Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't see any of that. They'll do any of that. What's going to be the name of the podcast Tino press. Awesome. So that comes out Tober, sixteenth, Zoe said, look, Toby, sixteenth. And right now I. I've got some exciting guests and the Billy one of a taped, and it was actually brought me to tears, but we had a good time with as well. Awesome. Well, last question coach before I let you go. It's completely different gears, your son, Richard, has his most talented teams of Minnesota coming back this year sixties, and he's obviously worked under you obviously learned under you, but in what ways is Richard a different coaching you? You know, Richard is different than me. He's he's much more like Billy Donovan when he is me. We coach differently. The only thing we do the same is a couple of things with. We're both very passionate, but his style plays different than mine. He has a different way of teaching, and obviously he's not a veteran coach, so he's a young coach, but he recruits different than me with our very different coaches. But we're, we're similar is how we prepare. Our organization. How much we care about the game. But he's different than me and I like that. You know, I wouldn't want him to to take my blueprint exactly the way it is like you'd be Brown said to me when I left him, take what you really like that you've learned them to me and put it into your system and take what you don't like and and don't put it into your system. And that's exactly what I told Richard and, and you know, he had a terrific team last year and lost three starters. I liked his team this year. I'm not crazy about the point guard position. I think he needed now Vyas Ahah Washington can mature out of the social media world and into the real basketball world of how to get it done. And then they've got great promise if not, he's just gonna find a different point guard and moving into different direction that's only weak spot right now is at the point guard position pope in the fifty a senior. Gets to shake, you know, on the season is not too far away coach, I really appreciate you taking the time out joining the show. Thank you. Get. Rogers, does this body and. The Green Bay Packers had won the Super Bowl and you're listening to the sidelines, Evan, Daniel. Once again, thank Rick Pitino for taking time out in joining the podcast enjoyed that conversation. Before I let you all. Go want to make sure that you were supporting this podcast and the best way you can do that is to go over to apple podcasts, hit the scribe button, but also leave a rating and review. You can also do those things on your favorite podcast app. You can also shoot me a note over on Twitter, Instagram handle at Evan Daniels with love to know what you think about the podcast as always agree week, and thanks for listening.

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The Crotch-Chopping, Bat-Flipping Edition

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:20:12 hr | 1 year ago

The Crotch-Chopping, Bat-Flipping Edition

"This episode of hang up and listen sponsored by Intel now that you would open Photoshop and illustrator, and every application on your computer at the same time just for fun, but you could with the eighth gen Intel core processor with Intel opt-in memory, you can push your computer to new limits, new computers with Intel, obtain memory are now faster and more responsive, which means you can open load and launch, like never before learn more at Intel dot com. Slash you could. The following podcast contains explicit language. Hi, I'm Steffan fats us and is slates sports podcast. Hang up and listen for the week of October twenty second two thousand eighteen on this week's show. It's a guest palooza Ben Lindberg of the ringer and Emma, bachelor of Sports Illustrated. We'll preview the World Series between the Boston Red Sox and the Los Angeles Dodgers author, Michael sock Olov and Yahoos. Dan Wetzel we'll discuss the ongoing college basketball corruption trial which has surfaced big names, but also these small time behavior of bit players in the multibillion dollar business, and finally writer limb Boylan pet and professor Lewis more. We'll talk about Bob Biman's record shattering long, jump fifty years ago and the Olympics civil rights protests that went largely unnoticed. Josh Levin is off this week. I'll be trying to go nine here in slates Washington, d. c. studios or maybe I'll just pitched to one batter. Go home only my right UCLA and the crafty manager knows for sure joining me now to discuss actual non metaphorical. Baseball are the aforementioned then Lindbergh. Hey, Ben, Stephan good to be back. And the aforementioned and Abacha Larry Hamma high dodgers Red Sox. One hundred and two years since they met in a series. Not that that's especially relevant. It was Brooklyn against Boston then. And it's one hundred years since one thousand nine hundred eighteen which I hoped would never stop being a chant in the Bronx. But alas is no more three times over than this could be very good, big market teams quibbling about who's the bigger market. Lots of young and interesting players. I'm excited about this even though I hate Boston or maybe that's why I'm excited about it because I think they might lose. I am to a barely remember that one thousand nine hundred sixteen Red Sox versus Brooklyn Robins matchup. So I'm ready for a rematch. I think there are a lot of good young stars in the series. Obviously, whether it's the likely ale, MVP, Mookie Betts, or with whether on the Nanno side, you have many Machado who's kind of done a, he'll turn here in October, or you could go to UCLA que- Gert Bellinger. There's just a whole lot of young talent here and really good teams. Probably the best teams in their respective leagues, or at least you could make that case. The biggest payrolls in their respective leagues, the old historic stadiums on either side. I think probably some people are sort of sick of seeing both of these teams even though they haven't actually matched up against each other. And even though the dodgers have won the World Series in thirty years, we've seen these teams in the playoffs a lot lately, but they probably are the best teams that we could be seeing at this point. And so I think there's a lot here. There are a lot of links between these teams sort of a lot of under the radar storylines and so I'm looking forward to it. M of the Red Sox seem to be as good as you'd expect a. Hundred eight win regular season team to be despite the fan narrative in Boston of overcoming diversity, Jeff Sullivan at fan graphs, put together a table looking at the best outfields from two thousand to two thousand eighteen and the Red Sox current outfield of Mookie Betts, Jackie Bradley Jr. and Andrew Benintendi come out number one in batting number two in base running number five and fielding and number one in war by two full runs. And then Jeff Sullivan went to baseball reference and found that the Red Sox are tied for eighth place in history. In hitting this outfield Sullivan says they are somewhere in that conversation for the best outfield in history. That seems like a stretch. It's hard to know when you're watching a group of athletes, just how good they are. Do you think that the Red Sox outfield and by extension, the rest of the team are aren't that good. Yeah. I mean, it sounds a little crazy, but you know, you think about it, you have, that's who can do literally just about anything in any capacity. And then throughout these defense is just so phenomenal. And you know, in looking at more measuring him all around not as strong at the plate as the other guys, but also great on the base paths in adds value there. Benintendi great the plant and yet really kind of does all come together in a way that sounds insane to think about being among the best of all time. But I break it down a is twice that far fetched on an is even more insane to think about the fact that you have JD Martinez as the designated hitter who might also see. Time in the outfield when they're out in LA through playing by National League rules in that you can have that kind of offense of power being added into this already. All-time greet outfield into. Yeah, it's pretty terrifying and burn. The dodgers finally seemed to realize that they're a good team. They lost last year's World Series in seven games to Houston. They underachieve to ninety two wins in the regular season, but they remain stacked on the ringer, your colleague, Michael Bowman wrote after game seven on Sunday that the dodgers have ten position players who had an s. plus of one hundred ten or better in at least two hundred plate appearances. This is a really good team and and maybe not. A surprise, of course, because of the payroll and because of the recent history. But during the regular season, there were moments when you did not think they would be here in October. Yeah, they had an abysmal start to the season, but I think that this isn't as much of a mismatch as you would think. If you just look at those regular season win totals wanna, wait for the Red Sox ninety two for the dodgers. If you look at some of the underlying metrics, they suggest that maybe the dodgers are just as good as the Red Sox are. Roughly, you know, look at the run differentials look at some of the other ways that we assess team quality aside from just the wins and losses. And the dodgers are really right up there with the Red Sox. And yes, they were ten games under five hundred in mid may, and it's rare for a team to make this kind of comeback. But I think you look at what happened to them. After that point, you know, they lost Cory Seager who was maybe their best overall player in the past couple of years. He was out for the season. They went out and traded for many Machado, which. Is as pretty close to a lateral move as you can make when you lose someone like Cory Seager, and then they were without Justin Turner for the first forty games or so of the season. And once he came back once you had Machado in the fold, they really were sort of a different team. So to look at the way they started the season and apply it to their current roster, I think would be a mistake. This is actually a a pretty close matchup. Let's talk a little bit about Clayton Kershaw and David price Kershaw of the dodgers of course price something Fred socks. They laid to rest at least for a few days, the prevailing narrative that they are playoff chokers Kershaw has that a two point three, six and four appearances. Two wins a saving game seven versus the brewers price through a three hitter with no walks and nine strike outs in game. Five of the ANC s I'm always a little disappointed when a prevailing narrative dies. Emma. But I mean, I don't know if this one was fair in kershaw's case to begin with. Certainly it was small sample size, small sample size in prices. But I do think it sort of re energizes the or at least it puts a bright focus on how they will do in the World Series. Yeah, absolutely end, I'm not sure if either of these prevailing narratives has fully died. I think it would only take one, not even a bad performance, but moments of weakness reawakened either of those narratives with full force, you know, given how strong they've been for years now. And if you look at especially with Kershaw, he's had a lot of good playoff performances in the past that have just been surrounded by Clinton of wins that haven't been good. And it doesn't seem like there's anything that he's been able to do to fully kill the narrative just because of how well established it as yet. I think it certainly adds another layer of. Attention in focus to what they're going to do here and. Yeah, I don't think the narrative is fully dead. I don't think a few performances in enough to kill a for either one. I don't think price finally getting the win in that last game of the ale. CS is going to be enough to put the nerves to rest. Certainly in. Yeah. Here. Price was listening to your segment from last week with Jeff passan on a loop just as motivation Steph might have been or maybe up to mental skills game, then he really doubled down on his mental skills yet extra meetings with his with his mental skills coordinator on the reds. Yeah, that might have been, you know, it's true that these two guys even now after their recent strong performances, they do still have the biggest differentials between their regular season career e. r. as in their postseason eras of anyone with as many postseason innings as they finished. So you can still say it's an accurate statement to say that they have pitched worse in the postseason or at least allowed more runs in the postseason than they have in the regular season. But I just don't find the narrative all that compelling because individually they do have such strong performances that you'd have to say that the choking or that the wilting under pressure is selective. And it happens in some games and some years and some serious, but not. Other times because they both have come up big time. So to me that makes it a little less convincing. And neither of these guys is as good as he once was they're both. I think past their very hyping, although they're both very, very good starting pitchers still. So in that sense, they're a little more vulnerable than they used to be, but I still am not buying the playoff narrative, but I'm sure it will rear its head again, if either of them has a shaky start in this series. Oh, for sure. Another trend that we discussed on the podcast was bullpens thing and the br- the brewers did it to great success in the regular season. Not quite so much in the playoffs in going down to the dodgers in in that seven game series m. you wrote about how the brewers are moving to what's called position lists baseball. And you noted in your piece that Milwaukee shifted this season more than any other team in the National League and that the teams, larger philosophy is that a position doesn't have to be any more anything more than one of baseball's social constructs. The brewers infield isn't four minute four positions. It's a set of guys who have been brought together for maximum flexibility, able to be configured in any number of different ways changing, not just from game to game, but from Batu batter in an attempt to nail the best defensive arrangement at any given time. This almost seems obvious. You know the way things seem obvious in retrospect like, oh, if we have more flexibility. Athletes who can do multiple things, especially in a in a in a game that is moving toward a much more flexible approach toward especially defending that we should try to maximize that advantage if we can. It makes a lot of sense from a. I mean, just a cynical evalu- standpoint lakes that you can get the most value out of beer players by giving players. You can play multiple roles, like whatever that may look like. But yeah, what the brewers have done with it as I think step past. The way that the the game has been trending as a whole for a little bit. Now just in that they really embrace that all the way with their infield in terms of just moving is all over the place. Being so flexible in in how much they shifted in who's playing position encouraging is to take on new roles ending you saw in the ten playoff games. They played seven analysis in three in not as I think they used five different infield configurations. With the same small set of guys. So that kind of thing goes to show just how flexible they've gotten with that and even the they're out of it. Now, obviously the dodgers also embodied that to a certain extent on the, they don't really have a static lineup so much as they have, you know, a group of guys, they're moving around all the time, particularly focused on getting the platoon advantage as much as possible. Yeah, I think he definitely at least you see the game itself trending more and more, but particularly the brewers infield in also the dodgers who beat them. Donald c s are doing this a lot to over the one example that Ben was Chris Taylor who's a throw in in a trade a couple of years ago, right? He started game seven at second base, ended up moving to left field any made, basically the game and series deciding catch your infect the the dodgers have really historic rate of using guys at positions other than their primary positions. I am working on a piece for this week about something called their flex score, which is something that ran Ijaz early came up for a came up with an article at the ringer a couple years ago. It just counts up the number of games that guys start at positions other than their main position. And if you look at the dodgers this year, by that metric, there has never been a good team. There's never been a ninety one team. There's never been a playoff team that had this many combined games coming from players who were not at their. Primary position. So it's not just Taylor. Who has you mentioned is rotating from infield outfield within games all the time. It's also Bellinger. It's also mex- Muncie. It's even Machado who's moved from shortstop to third, and it makes a lot of sense because I think in this day and age when you do have these giant bullpens as we've been talking about, there's only so much room for bench players. And so if you can have guys who play multiple positions that really makes the manager's job a lot easier in addition to the positioning in the shifting that Emma mentioned, and there are just fewer balls and play period. So in theory, you should be able to get away with stationing someone who's not a great fielder at a particular position. So a lot of these teams are really taking advantage of that trend and you mentioned tons of pitching changes bigger bullpens. You wrote a piece for the ringer last week, Ben, noting that for these reasons and others, the playoffs have been really interesting. The baseball has been dramatic. And in some cases, the play has been outs. Standing there been terrific story lines ups, but they've also been terrible in some ways because they magnify everything that's problematic with major league baseball right now, long games, slow games, all these pitching changes, fewer balls in play. As you mentioned, none of that is particularly good for the sport on a macro level, Emma. Yeah. I mean, I think writ large. I agree. In terms of, you know, big trending items, but as far as how it manifest in the playoffs, I think it can be easy to. It's easier to find it entertaining that you know a lot of times those pitching changes are it's naturally a more high stakes moment because everything is more high-stakes, you're not, you know, frustrated to see an extra commercial break in the sixth inning in a random game in August, it feels more important. It easy to overlook. You know what this means as general trending item, anything Ben reflected that in the piece really well, but it doesn't necessarily make the baseball feel worse in the moment that the way these trends manifest in October can just feel more fun in more exciting that you know a longer game more pitching changes the ball in play less. It doesn't have to feel quite so a boring as it can in the regular season. But yes, it certainly it's all of the trends that we've seen throughout the the Sierra, the preceding years kind of dialed up to eleven. Which probably is integrated from just basic entertainment standpoint from the average fan as a big macro change. But I don't think it necessarily has to make the baseball will less fun unless interesting rate now in October, when the stakes are high enough to support it only if you're sort of trying to keep your eyelids open at twelve thirty. Coast. Yeah, it definitely has a breaking point, but I think for the most part, it can work up to a certain point. Then go ahead. Your piece talk. Yeah. No, I agree with what MSN I mean, I think so much of it is dependent on the stakes and the suspense. It's that games are so much longer, and they're so many more breaks in the action, whether it's replay reviews, which we see much more often in the postseason or it's pitching changes. They're more strikeouts everything that people wring their hands about in baseball and say that baseball is dying for this reason. And that reason, it just gets amped up and magnified when the playoffs roll around. And I think for those of us who are already invested and we've been following this all season and we know the players and the teams and the story lines, it's not such a big problem. I mean, if the game is four hours instead of three hours, I'm still going to watch it till the end, but your average fan and baseball's kind of a regional local sport that does great in local ratings but doesn't do as well in national ratings, and this is the time of year when baseball does become a national story line and you figure at least some people tune in. Say, why don't I take a look and see what I've been missing this baseball thing. And then suddenly games are four and a half hours long. It's probably not the best advertisements to the the undecided voter of sports fans, but to the committed voter. I think those of us who are already ideologically aligned with baseball. We're willing to go along with it. I think one thing that might help the undecided voter come around is if we talk about playoff beefs. There's been some great beefs in these playoffs. The Astros were accused of espionage and the dodgers were accused of stealing signs Christian yelich of the brewers called Manny. Machado of the dodgers a motherfucker after Machado, basically kit his Aguilar at first base, and we've got some potential World Series beef involving Machado. It's an old beef goes back to two thousand seventeen with Chris sale. The Red Sox pitcher sale through a ninety, eight mile per hour. Fastball behind Machado in may of two thousand seventeen when Machado was with Baltimore and the. Chief was triggered by Machado sliding spikes up into Dustin Pedroia, who ended up having to miss a few games. I want to listen to the audio of of national Chato from then because it's really great audio and it could set the table for our World Series beef. What do you think. Powered stuff. I mean that stuff that you can do. But I mean, I'm not on that side then station. They're still thinking about that same slide that did that was those no intention on hurting anybody and I'm still paying. I'm still trying to get hit, get thrown out of my head thrown everywhere. Marriage, Doug inundation for that coaching staff everyone over there. This is some good potential beef ban. It is. Yeah, I called Machado's at a heel turn, but it's not really because he's always kind of been this way. I think we're just noticing it more now because it's on the stage as opposed to him being on the very Terry terrible Orioles earlier this year. But he has a whole history going back years with the Red Sox, and they had a bean ball war last year that was causing brawls and comments where he was calling the Red Sox cowards and criticizing the whole organization. Now, this postseason he seems to have things up a notch. There have been crotch grabs galore. He's almost bragged about not hustling at times. He is a very hate -able if he is not your own teammate and your own player at this point. So I think he's sort of the flash point of this. And then yes, CO Puig of course, has always whether he deserves it or not. Is. Always another target of people who are upset about the game being played a certain way. Yes. Let's talk about Yasser El Puig he crotch chopped not crotch. Grabbed he crossed chopped after his three run Homer in game seven against the brewers. And I think this has the potential for being a classically stupid baseball beef. He also bat flipped after that Homer, and he hit three, thirty three in the in the in the series and led the team in total basis or lead the whole series. And total basis. Do you think crotch chopping can can can can take its place among good baseball beefs. And do you have any other baseball beef predictions for the World Series? I really hope they can. Just because I mean that whole celebration was fantastic. Hugh had also not just the backflip not just the crotch chop. There is also a throat slash, I believe at one point he did like a flexing motion. It was so much which is perfect. Beef ground laying ground view and yes, exactly. And yeah, I think this is also a fairly low key regular season for CEO creek. Like, you know, impasse she had the storylines teammates anonymously kind of trashing him to the media him getting sent down to the minors getting benched in this year. We didn't have any of that. It's just getting enjoy him in this both fledged forum on the biggest age possible still being as. By slash obnoxious depending on your point of view as he can possibly be, and it is just perfect. So I really hope we get to see more of that. Maybe take some of the NBA voters if we're using the undecided voter mindset because he thinks that sort of personality beef stirring a think. Something that we haven't seen as much in baseball lately, it's just perfect for the. I mean, that's just the joy. I mean Puig in the locker room after they won the pennant was lovely. It's this sort of unfiltered on adulterated. Just accept this total joy in the moment. And yeah, and baseball needs this and any sport needs this because that's what sport should be about to be about that emotion about that too, and and feeling of expression of emotion. Yeah, definitely. And I think that is changing. So he put surely in baseball and with many columns written in response. But I think that these two collections of players definitely will look like they're having fun when they play baseball, which makes it easier for us to have fun watching them play baseball. So I'm very much in favor of it. M Abacha Larry writes about baseball for Sports Illustrated. Emma. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me and then. Lindburg writes about it for the ringer. He's also the co author with Sam. Miller of the only rule is it has to work our wild experiment building a new kind of baseball team, which is out in paperback Ben. Thanks for coming back. My pleasure. This episode of hang up and listen is brought to you by simply safe. If there's one thing sports teach us, it's that you can never count out the underdog, no matter how big the odds. Some people will surprise you just like SimpliSafe home security did today. Simply safe's security system is winning all sorts of awards. But ten years ago simply safe was an underdog back. Then if you wanted a security system, you had to go through these huge companies. They made you sign expensive, long term contracts with hidden fees for systems that were completely outdated that all changed. When a young electrical engineer named Chad Lauren's started designing simply safe's first security system in his kitchen. He wanted to get rid of the long term contracts and hidden fees. 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If you've paid even the slightest attention to college basketball during any part of your lifetime, you know, the sport has never been on the pristine, amateur student athlete, old school, tie up and up since the nineteen fifties. If not earlier boosters and gamblers, and agents and runners have been slipping envelopes of cash to boys who play basketball. Well, not to mention other benefits from cars to jobs to sneaker companies swag. Now in a federal courthouse in Manhattan, a jury is about to begin deliberating in the first of three planned trials of so far anyway, bit players in the business of college, basketball, recruitment and in the process has exposed a tiny slice of that world to people are here to talk about the case with me. One is Dan Wetzel who's been covering the trial for Yahoo sports, hey, down a low. Are you very well? And the other is Michael Sokolow. He is a contributing writer to the New York Times magazine and the author of the brand new book. The last ten. Tation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. Hey, Mike. All right. At its core, this case is about people in the biosphere of college. Basketball, buying players for universities. The amounts are hardly eye-popping tens, and in some cases, one hundred thousand dollars. The tactics are pretty crude and familiar, but there are a lot of names and figures and text messages at its core. Dan, this is about universities as I said, buying the service of basketball players, but that's now the government is framing the case, is it? No, they are framing the universities as victims here in that by paying players family, you render that player ineligible and university would never give a scholarship to an ineligible player and by playing that ineligible player, unbeknownst the school, they would potentially. Incur the wrath of the NCAA which could punish them financially and other sanctions and vacated wins. And all of that, obviously, the other side says, are you kidding me? We're giving we're helping school, get a five star basketball player so they can win. We are helping not harming these universities and we're really working at either the spoken or implied consent of the. Of the basketball coaches who to them represent the university. So that's really the heart of the case right there. And my your book focuses on one of those coaches, Rick Pitino, and some of the players who entered his orbit and are part of this trial. One is a young guy named tugs Bowen, Brian Bowen, junior, I don't wanna get blinded by the details of his case, but the story is pretty Representative not only of the prosecution, the courting of high school basketball stars, isn't it? Yes. Tugs is a was a good player. Not a great player. Sweet kid. His father was his mentor. Father was a figure in what you beautifully put it. The biosphere of of basketball and his father took a lot of money or took money. A lot of times on behalf of his kids play in a you basketball or to switch high schools as father just kept taking money, and but the money he took for him to go to Louisville was one quarter of one percent of Rick Pitino's annual Sal. Theory. So the money that actually came to the bone, family was nineteen thousand five hundred dollars. It's nothing and, but it really sort of encapsulates the inequalities here because it it became criminalized and Bowen lost his college career and losing his college career. This is a guy that went to play and he's playing Australia. He's playing in Australia, and you know he wants to be in the NBA like all these kids do seven thousand miles from the closest NBA franchise. He'll get scouted, but let's face it. That's a harder road to be one of the thousand or so oversea overseas players trying to get noticed by the NBA that is to go to Louisville and be on national TV all the time, right. That's also reflective sort of the Casablanca nature of this case. Everybody is shocked. Oh my God. You know, the coaches names are Bill self of Kansas has popped up in texts and emails among some of these parties. Talk of Adidas, black ops team come on. There's this cash. Cash on the cars down. It's been pretty absurd, but it's, of course there were real life implications here as you've been covering the trial and you've been in the courtroom, what have been some of your favorite bits of absurdity and how do you not roll your eyes at some of the stuff that that's been brought up in the case. Yeah, I don't know how you don't. I think there's just the basic, the basic setting of this case, the southern district of New York. They handle the most. Most of the biggest and complex federal cases, Ponzi schemes, terrorism, you know, huge drug kingpin murders, huge fraud cases. You know, you'll, you'll look on the docket and it'll say courtroom here a guy cues, stealing eighty five million in defrauding nursing homes where eleven elderly died because a substandard conditions, and then it's this. This one, you know, it's basically did, Brian Bowen's dad get get a to grand a month from an agent, and so you're you're here in, you're in Manhattan. You got this patacula courthouse is incredible views. And so almost just that's the absurdity. There's a million little details that are just nuts, but you just like, is this really a federal case. The people involved knew they were. They were violating NCA rose out of like one of them ever thought in their wildest dreams that could end up in federal court charged facing conceivably years and years and years in prison. It's probably be smaller sentences of their convicted, but just the idea that we got there. Now I also covered deflate gate in the same building. So that was even further this. But. That's that's something that quarterback had something that was important. That was the NFL again, I don't. I don't know if you're in the courtroom when this occurred, but but I spent a couple of days there and there's one great moment when. The defense attorney. One of the defense attorney says the bow and senior says, so you've been pimping out your namesake since he was fourteen years old and Bo and senior actually doesn't disagree only quibbles about the age says, maybe fifteen or sixteen. And that's, that's the underlying reality here is that everybody is in on this. Nobody is blind to this. I mean, literally, you know, I was channel surfing last night and came across the ESPN docked for for the love of basketball or basketball, a love story, and it was the segment about about Molina's and gambling in the nineteen fifties, and early sixties and Connie Hawkins and Ron Brown. These guys getting dragged into this case on wittingly and having their careers largely destroyed. And the narrative that's built up of course, is that, oh, this is awful. And the universities have successfully through the federal government's prosecution, I think, allowed themselves to be very willingly and happily portrayed as the victims of this fraud. As you said, Dan, it seems to me though that if you really want to go after this there, they're unnamed co-conspirators in this trial, the chancellors and the president. Athletic directors and the NCAA which might you labeled a shadow defendant. In the case, you said that the NCAA's rules are not followed and are not regarded as having any moral authority, not by the players, their families, their youth coaches, or by many of the college coaches seeking their services, right. I mean, this is a replay of of the people you just reference Connie Hawkins going back to the fifties who was a forerunner of Julius Erving of Michael Jordan. It's the same story over and over and over again. But if you want to clean it up, don't go after the kids which they've always done and an essence they're doing here. I mean, Brian Bowen junior got dragged up to the FBI offices in New York. Other kids have been interviewed. They've not been charged, but you have to understand this is terrifying. You've now got law enforcement on the beat of grassroots basketball at a time. When African American parents are already concerned about police treatment of their boys naive got cops on the beaten in use basketball. So don't do that. Go after. The shadow defendants, which is the big business of college basketball and Gan in in in a column you wrote last week, you blistered the NCAA and it's president Mark Amer te who does seem happy to play this role of victim instead of the role you might expect it Mark Emerton the NCAA to play, which is oversee or with the ability to enact real reform to take a look at the the details of this trial and the knowledge that we've built up over the decades and say, let us do something. You wrote college. Basketball's burning right here for everyone to see and hear, and Mark Emmer can't even be trouble to show up and fiddle in the back of the courthouse. And nobody showed nobody really showed up at the NCAA. They wouldn't even admit they had anyone. I believe that you know, they have an outside counsel. That's kind of rotating attorneys through. I was there for every day. I know everybody was there every day and there's nobody from the NCAA. I think it's like. The CASA, Blanca part is is very, very good. It's a very apt comparison like the the feds, keep saying while you have these compliance department, the compliance directors, our guest cheating, and they bring the compilers people up there and they're all nice people at put. The compliance department basically consists of fill out this form. Say, you didn't cheat. There's no actual compliance of like looking into it like Brian Bowen. Tugs Bowen signed as a five star recruit in June of his senior year. Most five-star, he's the last guy available. Five star recruits don't become available in June anybody. The pious department at Louisville's run by guys been there twenty years. Rick Pitino knew this was rare. And so this guy falls into their laps at instead of saying, jeez, what's up with the bullets? How many high schools that he go, where they living, who they aligned with how many AU teams they play with all the things that would raise red full all the red flags. They just ignore them. And said, oh, we'll take what lucky break for us. It's amazing. We got, you know, we can't believe it. And this guy just shows up. We recruited them for eight days like the complies when ask no questions because the compliance department Equites director at every school is making, you know, x. number of dollars and the head coach is making, you know, fifty x number of dollars. And so there's no way comply start your whole. The hunt coach Patino. I want to look into his housing situation. So Louisville then act shocked, find out the Brian Bowen. Senior took money when they later find out. He's living in a hotel planning on living on a nice hotel althouse in Louisville for the entire year. Like who lives in a hotel for a year, like how much money do you have for that little own? If you're disabled a police officer living on disability and not only that Dan. Right? Like the knowledge that you know the the understanding is that he's going to be there for six months. I mean, this is like, this is a joke from the outset and who's kidding, whom you. And everytime everything, Dan just said about this process and not looking into it until the point. He still ends up available in June everything. Dan said would be true. Almost every other prospect, you know, multiple high schools, multiple AAU teams, kids move all across the country, and money is clearly being exchanged for them to do that. If any of these kids talent was music or acting or anything else arts, whatever it be no big deal. If you're the star, you had a star young actress and she'd moves with her mom till Hollywood and has put up by CA to try to become a movie star. He'd be like, hey, great, good for you. Good lock, oh, but works only in basketball the we sit there and football a little bit when sit there. That's terrible. We can't actually try to what the goal of all these guys should be the NBA just like the goal of every talented, ten-year-old singers to get a record deal. Hey, we're moving to Nashville. We're going to try this, but in this sport because of the NCAA's grip on the American consciousness. It's like while week we just can't you that. That's terrible. We gotta bring the FBI in on on how the heck out of the heck this kid and his parents like there's nothing wrong. If Adidas wants to pay a high school basketball, a high school kid from Saginaw Michigan to play some basketball. For the basically hire them for a summer job because rate is right. Why is this a problem? Why is he NCA gets a stand in the way of private business in a private person making a completely legal deal. And the ultimate irony of course, is that the real victim are these kids, these athletes, they're defrauded of substantive education. There defrauded of the opportunity to earn fair market value for their skills, both as high school players and at college players, which is a multibillion dollar business. Sally Jenkins I thought, wrote a really trenchant column in the Washington Post last week which pointed out that this is penny Anne scapegoating. That's not going to deter anyone. Really. You want to really deter and have an impact. Federal government bring a Rico case, right? Charging president charge boost or an AD coach, a shoe company donors with conspiring to defraud. Right? And but what we're talking about, then there's this parallel universe, this vacuum sealed world. So you've got the judge in this case, made the jury pledge of allegiance to the NCW model. Say we all agree right? That all what they get is their scholarships. You had leases Condoleeza Rice as panel, say, basically the same thing. We want to keep the amateur model. What the three of us are saying right now is what amateur model. There is no mound, amateur model. It's a fiction. Absolutely. Not just what you see is there was a day when you know a basketball recruit in the nineteen seventies would show up at Indiana to play for Bob Knight. Almost no one would know who he is yet to follow some recruiting newsletter or you had to be from his hometown or something like that now. And so you could say, hey, professional basketball doesn't begin least until you get to Indiana, but really until you make the NBA. Now, Zion, Williamson, who's the number one of one of the top recruits, the country's go into Duke. He is one point, seven million Instagram followers. Okay. Then I have a question for you though. How many other people are making money off Zion, Williamson? So you talked about recruiting how many people are making a living off of following recruiting. You know, that's that's another unseen way so that so that you know the, you know, rivals dot com. I can't even add up who they all are. These things have been sold for for several hundred million dollars Brian. That's crazy. Yeah. So somebody's in the business of tracking what a fifteen and a sixteen year old does, and we're making money off them. Everybody's making money off these kids, and here's that they put their professionals now before they arrive. Sure. You're a professional. If someone willing to pay you to do something, it doesn't matter what it is go rake, someone's leaves your professional leap breaker, twenty bucks whatever. If Adidas willing to pay Brian Boeing twenty five thousand dollars to play summer ball. When he's sixteen years old, he's a professional college is not the gateway to becoming a pro. It is in the middle of the process, NAT. And so their rules stunt the whole thing, you're a pro. Now, if you're a good basketball player, fourteen fifteen years old and that's the that's the big different. We have law way of these NCAA rules built like it's still nineteen seventy two. It's two thousand eighteen. And the point you just made Dan about Zion, Williamson and his Instagram. Followers is an important one. I mean, there were people that monetize their social media followings, and if you could one point three million followers on Instagram and who knows how many on Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, whatever there's money to be made there. Zion Williamson isn't participating in. So when coach k. at Duke comments on the trial and says, it's a blip. It's not what's happening that is among the most disingenuous. Things that a leader can say. Like he wants us to believe that the Zion Williamson is at Duke because he wants to take classes at the coach k. center on leadership and ethics. I mean, let's be realistic here. Zion, Williamson is for going. His career for two years or three years, say junior year of high school, senior year of high school, and this one year gap year at at Duke in order to become a millionaire. You know, that's true. And I think that we look at all those top level kids, and you know, you can make a case that the deal is good for Williamson. Just wait a year dude. You can say that for the top fifteen or twenty kids, I think when you look at corruption and you look you, we should look at the middle. Kids are also foregoing being a real student. Part of this process. Money is being made off them. They're student and all. There's there, Adidas gear, their human billboards and I seriously think do does anybody think that point shaving is left college basketball? You know, if you go up to the guy who's the sixth, you know the the second guy off the bench for Duke or whoever and say, hey, you never really gonna make it in the pros. You wanna get involved in this thing. I mean, I would not be surprised if. We see that come back because it's the same thing. There are people going to tempt kids or not being not being paid and zions going to get paid. But there are a lot of kids out there still not going to get paid. You don't know what's going to happen with Zayn Williamson. You mean you just don't. And yeah, you can say, wait a year or two years, and I totally get your point. Zion will benefit his Instagram. We'll go up by playing it, do Duke will give him a there is there is a benefit to what's going to happen. Sign was he is an incredible dunker. He'll be sensational winter. However, like right now I talked to pro sports agents and marketers they could. He could sell advertisements on a on his Instagram page. Fifty to one hundred grand per post. He has teenagers following him mainly teenage boys because he's the greatest dunker. You will. One of the great dunkers will ever see how many videos could this kid make and sell it senior vie is like he has a highlight tape with two million it. But the thing is college sports can go on fine. If they just content, they don't have to pay Zion, Williamson, let. Somebody else pay let him cash in on his talent and his and his brand, and his hard work and all of those things. Nothing bad is happening to college basketball. If all of a sudden he's making money on the fact that he's showing up with all these fans is good for college. Basketball, you'll try to kick a guy like that out. You try you say, hey, man, hope he stays a couple years. I've always wondered this because they remember when LeBron could could have gone to college and he obviously was never going to. But a guy at the NCAA told me, man, I have a stack on a evidence against LeBron James that he and his mom have been taken money all through high school. He'll never play in college basketball, and I said, well, why would you want not want LeBron James to play basketball for you? I don't. I don't get the concept and but that's how they have the mentality like zion's bad if he takes a dollar, but you can cash in on Zion, wins his popularity and take the dollar. Let me ask both of you guys. What do you think would be worse a guilty verdict or an acquittal in this case. Means, I mean, what do you think the effects would be of one or the other? That's a really hard question. I mean, listening listening to Dan right now, and I think he, I think it's fair to say he's a little more immersed day to day than I am and college sports. You know, one of the things that occurs to me is this case, I think, has brought some of the sort of basketball community together and realizing how unequal Aldus is and speaking more strongly about just paying players. So you know, worse or better. I mean, it's I, I has it take to say that I think in terms of real change the better if it's guilty verdict because then people like chef ski can't turn around and say, it's a blip. Then you've got, you know, as Steve haynie who's Kristin Dawkins? Lawyer said you have brought this case. It's like Enron except you charge the secretaries. So Chris dockings was one of the runners for for an agent in this case. Right, exactly. So that's Christian doctrines. So I think if they're found. Found guilty. You know, you may have more people take a hard look at it and say, wait a second. You've you've rung these guys up on charges. This is so unfair. So unequal. So in terms of real change, I think guilty verdict would be better if it's not guilty. You have you have people say, oh, the federal government should evolve. Let's all go back to square one. Not pay kids, you know, keep on going with the same ridiculous structure down. I, I don't know this. That's a, it's a really good question because I can see it from both sides. I think a not guilty would be would be best for reform. I think because it doesn't. It says a jury, just rejects the notion of this, and it really opens up. I mean, there's a knock guilty in all of these cases. Now there's three of them. So we gotta wait. I mean, it's truly open season if the FBI can't get you. Forget it in. So you can pretty much pay anything you want. But I think it has to if it's a guilty can sit there and say, well, that's it that we got this middle manager out in Portland who was sending money around. He's gotta go away for four years. We showed them. It almost re might reaffirm the idea. The real question here in the end, say, wants to debate, college administrators want to debate. Should we pay the players because that's the touchstone that divides the public. You get title nine, it's very complicated. They want that debate. They don't want the debate. Why don't we just let Zion Williamson control his name, image and likeness because that's the one that everyone sits there goes. Yeah, you're right. Why? Why is it so bad? If Adidas sponsoring him or Nike is sponsored Jim and sponsoring Duke. All they're trying to do is control the players in control a little bit of the revenue stream because Nike's not going to pay that much money for most of these kids, but they want they want to control at all. So the if they if to get a guilty here, I think they can shift that focus and keep the debate on should we pay the players which is just morass and a wedge issue that the NCAA's one on for for as long as this has been a debate. Dan Wetzel is a national sports columnist with Yahoo sports, Dan, thanks a lot for coming on the show like you Steffan and Michael Sokolow's new book is the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. Go buy it, Mike. Thanks a lot. Thanks them. Not like you would. All the applications on your computer at the same time just for fun, but you could laptops running the eighth gen Intel core processor with Intel opt-in memory. Allow you to push your computer to new limits with Intel. Obtain memory. Everyday tasks are up to two point one times more responsive with all that power, the possibilities seem endless. What are some of those possibilities? How about launching big media apps on content faster, allowing you to create more in less time with the eighth gen Intel core processor. Many of your everyday tasks are speeding up to like Email presentations. Even your browser can launch faster with Intel, octane memory, so that you would store thirty two gigabytes of photos on your computer and then open them all at once. But you could don't believe it go to Intel dot com. Slash, you could to learn more for more complete information about performance and benchmark results, visit Intel dot com slash. Benchmarks. Fifty years ago last week at the summer Olympics in Mexico City American long jumper. Bob Beamon ran through the air farther than any human had before twenty nine feet two and a half inches in all Biman's jump was insane. Yeah, it was an altitude and on a windy day, but it was almost two feet longer than the previous record. The photo of Biman in full flight mouth, open arms straight muscles. Taut legs wheeling was etched in my mind as a kid, but there's another photo and a story that goes with it. That was not familiar to me. And I suspect to a lot of other people that picture is of beaming on the medal stand two days after Tommie Smith, and John Carlos had made their iconic black gloved power salute protests. And the story is about how beaming grappled with race and image and protests in the turbulent year of nineteen sixty eight. And after Liam Boylan pet told Beeman story in a piece in the undefeated last week, he's. Here now Hailom hey, how's it going? Good and joining us as well as Lewis more and associate professor of history at grand valley state university. And the author of we will win the day, the civil rights movement, the black athlete, and the quest for equality. Welcome back to the show. Lou thanks for having me again, Liam, I really enjoyed your interview with and story about Beaman and his relationship with his remarkable athletic achievement. Let's start with what beaming did on the medal stand for people who aren't familiar with that set the scene tell us what happened. Tell us about the photo. Yes. So it's two days after, as you mentioned Tommy Smith and John Carlos made their statement on a metal stand and Bob Beamon has just about an hour too earlier made the jump that you also spoke about that is still. Ridiculous to this day. You can give some caveats here and there, but it's still just a ridiculous jump and he's on the medal stand and he has rolled up his pants to reveal the black socks that he is wearing insularity with Tommy Smith and John Carlos, and he does not do this during the anthem. But after the anthem he also raised his his fist and he has this photo that you mention. Everybody knows the photo of Bob Beamon lunging through the air. This photo is him on the medal, stand making a statement with Tommy Smith and John Carlos and his fellow medalist. Ralph Boston who was shoeless on that day when he was standing on the medal San and third place. Art Lou. Let's back it up now to where Bob Beamon was at the beginning of one thousand nine hundred sixty eight. Obviously it was one of the most tragic and tumultuous and monumental years in American history, and it reshaped the way that a lot of young black people considered civil rights and race. I think especially people like Beeman. He was an athlete and he began to recognize that he had some power, but at the time, the beginning of sixty eight. He's at the university of Texas El Paso and in February he and his teammates traveled to New York to compete in a meet at the New York athletic club, rat Madison Square Garden to meet sponsored by the New York athletic club. And this is another back story that I was completely unaware of or had forgotten. Lou tells about that and what happened there? Yes. So so beaming, you thought he was going to protest and at any point because at that in Waie see event, the buck athletes were boycotting that event and be being, however was one of the few who who actually went and what be mood said was like, look from New York. This free trip to New York, and also my coach made me, but what was going on is that the y. was racist. They didn't have any black memberships. They didn't have any Jewish memberships members. And so you start to see a protest mounting like early January and this really build up to to see if they could actually do the Olympic protests that the Olympic boycott. They were talking about and you got enough athletes their top star athletes to say, hey, we're not participating in. So you're Giancarlo Carlos you Thomas Smith, they don't go. And Bob is the one, the main one who actually goes and he took a lot of flack for that this time would you know the term Tom's is throwing around a pretty loosely, and that was directed at him. It had to be incredibly dramatic and traumatic for beaming and others. They crossed the picket line in order to compete at the garden and they're scared. I pulled up a piece that Louis you had linked to in a story you'd written about that event for the shadow league. Dave Anderson is a story in the New York Times. Dave Anderson was a young reporter who just died, Dave Anderson the great columnists and he covered the meet. The headline on his story was negro athletes, apprehensive, but compete in meat anyway, and beaming is the lead of the piece which describes him walking into Madison Square Garden in a red leather coat and black. Dora with his teammates and saying, I'm scared, man. You can really feel the conflict building. Did that come through in your conversation with him limb? Yeah, it certainly did. I mean, he even says he told me, said, looking back on it, I wish I would have boycotted I, he says, you live and you learn, but it's definitely something that stuck with him. And I think it kind of built towards what was coming in April of that year. And in April that year, Martin Luther King is assassinated. That's number one beaming said to you in that story limb when you see a nonviolent man being shot down, it just keeps building the country has to respond in some kind of way. I was seeing so much so much death and hate around us. So many different types of things that were not to me. Right. And then at you tap later that month, there's a conference of black students that features Harry Edwards, who became an organizer who was helping to organize this attempted Olympic boycott, and of course became a leader in the field of. Paul writes in athletics and dick Gregory the comedian and civil rights activists. What's interesting if you look at the El Paso times, he's it's either April third or April. Fourth, they have an editorial cartoon, a Martin Luther King with a gun, and it's him and they're blaming him for the riots in Memphis. So you know, whatever beaming was thinking about doing pulse, IMO ks assassination that he knew he wasn't going to get any support, but what's going on is after the case s nation you have a as you said in meal, black students with words in with dick Gregory and Harry Edwards is very clear about what needs to happen it. He literally says this is an eye for an eye head for an head, right? And so I think when you're eighteen nineteen twenty year old student, you internalize this differently. And I think because what's going on with the black athletes at that school specifically how they helped win the national championship in the help, how they're essentially deface of black students. I think people must have been looking. To them to do something and BYU as as Liam matches becomes that that perfect backdrop that perfect opportunity for it's almost like the the athletes that you tap start to radicalize and you tap was a really important place in the athletic movement for for black students. It was Texas western a couple of years earlier before nine hundred sixty eight and that team won the NCAA basketball championship with all black, starting five. They beat all white Kentucky, but it was no hotbed of racial progressivism. And this was straight southern racist. There were like two hundred and fifty black kids on campus. Many of them athletes, they were completely outnumbered. There are thousands of students at you. Tap the remarkable Sports Illustrated series. The black athlete by Jack Olsen ran that you ally in nineteen sixty eight. And one of the stories was about UT you tap and it really situates the college in this racist landscape, we were suckered into coming here about a black basketball player. In the story I come from the toughest blackest poorest parts of the Bronx. I won't be unhappy to go back athletes, talk about being denied a real education. One player says that white athletes got handouts from boosters, but somehow it never reaches the black athletes here and beam in his quoted in that piece. And again, you can see the sort of activist emerging. If a negro looks for help. He doesn't find it. Bob Beamon says, I have a four year old car that needs three hundred dollars worth of repairs. I don't know where I'm going to get the money to fix it. If I were the white long jump champion, that car would be fixed, like magic through, see that anger building. Oh yeah. And also, I think it's building within the students and like, like, you say that this is the opportunity. They're tired of being called the inward. They're tired of just being used and something's going to happen. And BYU becomes at that point for them, it's a lamb tells what happens at BYU the athletes get together and they organized a boycott. Why? What happened? Yeah, as you mentioned, Martin Luther King's assassination was the kind of final nail in the coffin of these guys are going to do something and they met is a small group and decided they were going to boycott. So then they went to Vandenberg their coach. They went to coach fan in Berg's apartment and told him, and he was not as kind in New York. He had kind of live this life of, you know, you don't have to compete. This is he was scared to, I think, as you even said, he was scared and he kind of said, you know, you guys don't have to compete, but it was different this time. This was a conference me. This was the end of the season, and I think he was under a lot of pressure from the administrators in his school. Because as you mentioned, it kinda had become a thing at this school. There was black athletes who are kind of who are starting to stand up for what they believed in, and the administrators didn't know how to handle it. And the way they reacted was swiftly. They said, if you're not competing, you're off the team and your scholarship will not be back, come next fall, and that's what happened. That's exactly what happened. Had the guy who ended up breaking the world record by almost two feet was kicked off his college team and lost his scholarship just six months before there's another track meet that. We should probably mention here Lou and that's after the BYU boycott and it's at you tap at this point, what's beaming status and what's the status of his fellow of a fellow teammates and what happens. Oh, yeah, they're off the team all eight them off the team, and they get kicked by Wisconsin. So and Wisconsin wins most of the sprinting events. But what's interesting about this track me is that you have to major protests on the black. Women students at the school protested and and they formed a locked hands on the track and they stopped. They tried to stop a couple races. So the beginning of the van, I believe the one two in hurdles, they locked hands and tried to stop the race and the meat delayed for thirty minutes before the police can move him. And then they tried it again at another point in the me and a police just kinda forcefully remove them and what's his stay. If you look at it, there's an editorial letter to enter in El Paso times where a letter writer writes in and just talks about how you know deplorable, this is for the students to protests and don't they know they're messing it up for other black athletes when they do these things. But money was raised for those eight students to come back and fall. So just think about this kind of late modern day goal fund, which is really cool. So enough scholarship money was was raised for them to come back to school. Did Beeman end up going back yet? Beeman did go back to school. He was. He ended up getting drafted by the Phoenix Suns that next NBA draft. However, and so he then left school. And eventually graduated from Adelphi university in nineteen seventy two. And that's where he ended up getting his college degree from and beaming, though goes and transfer the Olympics Huston he gets to Mexico City as a sporting phenomenon. The jump is absolutely transcendent. He jumped so far officials have to go find a tape measure that would work and he was celebrated not. He was celebrated for his achievement, but not for his action on the medal stand. Obviously, Smith and Carlos got a lot of attention. They were vilified in the mainstream press Lou. You've documented a lot of this, but Biman's gesture went largely unnoticed. Can you contrast what happened there? Lou what you've found in sort of pouring through old newspapers from the time? Yeah, it's really interesting with him. So there's, there's, you'll read some reports the the newspapers sent the reported to Mexico City, and they'll say, Bima did. This fantastic Leib and then they'll say something about the socks. Right. And some only a few people say he disrespected a SaaS, but I think it largely gets missed by the public because most of the talking about beaming is in contrast with Carlos and Smith, and it's this glowing thing about him how he stood in honor. So the Cleveland Plain Dealer, one of their sports writer does this and says, all is proud, black man, and John other black athletes should do this. There's another editorial Chicago's American, and that's the same newspaper that Musburger was right for where he called Smith and Carlos black storm troopers. Most problem right there at a to'real assists the phrases in and says, more black athletes need to be like him on. So there's, you know, they miss funny to me because they missed a protest, right? They missed the socks, the meaning of the socks, and he even says the at that moment, you know, this is a protest. He says it at that moment. He says it when it gets back to El Paso a week later, and because I think they're searching for. That good face to put on right. In addition, they'll get even better with George Foreman. But because the search for that black athlete to counter what Smith and Carlos the and they don't get with LeBron's, they think they kind of get with beam. Beaming becomes that guy that says, we'll have black athletes are just like, Bob Beamon we'll be okay and they completely missed what he was saying. Is it just because the photo of, I mean, he did a black power salute on the medal stand. He did exactly what Tommie Smith and John Carlos did is that the photo didn't picked up? Is that or do you think there was some sort of willful desire to ignore the protests? And as you say, lose hold up Beeman as the model negro athlete, I just think it's probably time ago the TV what they saw in in these anthem protests. And I also think it's the photo out the photo, the famous photos from a amateur photographer. I think the main photo that runs is actually him into. You know, with the flashing up and was only a few if you go through the newspapers of him, actually on the medal stand and you know, black white photos. You really can't pick things up. And so I just think they just completely miss Missouri everything and they wanted somebody so bad not be John Carlson Tommy Smith. And for a lot of people, he becomes that, Liam, you talked to him, obviously, did express any sort of regrets about sort of not becoming Tommy Smith or John Carlos. I mean, how does he compartmentalize the the physical act? The thing that got so much attention because it was so much it was such an outline or so much better than any thing that anyone had ever done before versus the, you know, having the athletic achievement, sort of maybe overlooked or not be come the entire focus of of what he did in Mexico City for him. I think it was just say it in the piece, but I asked him, I asked him that question point blank because I thought it was something that he would be missing. Out on, but he replied with, he said, you know, have you heard the term beaming esque? And I said, yes, I have actually, and he says, you know, it's, it's something spectacular. It's in the dictionary and for him he said that that's what he wants to be known for for being in the dictionary. And I didn't take that to necessarily mean only because of his leap that was quote beaming ask. But because he did special things that aren't as well known to, and he just, I think, really was happy and proud of what he did on the medal stand, but he was also really happy and proud of what he did that day with that leap. And so it was this kind of cool thing that I being in the room with him. I expected him to say, you know, I want. I wish more people knew about it and he did, but it wasn't some thing. He just really wants to be known for him. He's happy now that it's both. I think I haven't spoken with him since the story ran, but I really do think that he just wants to be known and he wants to do spectacular things, and he wants other people to do spectacular things as well. Do you think that it's important for historians like yourself to help recalibrate these moments in time to sort of give Bob Beamon. The the sort of dual respect that he deserves for what he accomplished in nineteen sixty eight. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I think that if we look at it, there are more athletes like Bobby out there. Right? Who who end their own way had their protests. And I think the the great story about in is that you don't have to be when when something happens, right? You don't have to be full on as a protest. So when the boy cuss, when they were talking boycotts Mexico City, he just wanted to go win a gold and he wasn't part of that. But I think when your time calms and it's time to say something, I think it's, you know, you should say something and I think that's what's important for this afternoon. Secede like, you don't have to be that person, you know of cap, kneels in two thousand sixteen. You don't have to deal with them right away, but there's gonna come appoint specially if you're black athlete. No, when is going to be your turn and the beautiful thing about Bob Beamon is that he took his term. I mean, he, you know, he, he protested and then he wasn't afraid to let the media know right on the spot that this is why did it. And if you wanna send me home, did send me home. You can read lamb Boylan pet story about Bob Beamon when the man who could fly, stood down in the undefeated will post it on our show page Liam. Thank you so much. Thank you for Adam. You really appreciate it. And thanks Louis more socio professor of history, GRANDE valley state, the author of we will win the day, the civil rights movement, the black athlete, and the quest for equality. Thank you very much. And now it is time for after ball. As we discussed Bob Beamon and Ralph, Boston's podium protests echoed the more famous ones by Tommy Smith and John Carlos. But there was no echo when it came to the third athlete on those metal stands. The guy who won silver in the two hundred meters was Peter Norman of Australia, he's well known because he supported Smith and Carlos, and he like others at those Olympics Warren Olympic project for human rights badge on his tracksuit and when Carlos forgot the black gloves that the two American runners plan to wear. It was Norman who suggested that Smith, where one glove on his right hand and Carlos where the other glove on his left hand, the silver medallist in the long jump played no such role in history. His name was Klaus beer. He's a twenty five year old east German. It was a second and final Olympics and online bio notes that in his early years, he was very good. Handball player. So here is my Klaus beer. If you play a team sport as a kid, and I totally support everyone playing a team sport as a kid, you should be lucky enough to be part of a game that you will never forget. I've got three. The first one I've mentioned on the show before my scrappy jets beating the mighty cubs, six to five in little league to avenge our season, opening twenty one to nothing defeat. The second is my Pelham New York, high school, ice hockey team to which my contributions were. Let's just say, limited winning the league championship in sudden death overtime. And the third is an actual personal athletic life highlight whipping home the rebound as the standard star newspaper reported the next day for a last second goal to lift the winless pelicans varsity soccer team over unbeaten Ardsley three, two, two. So I couldn't be happier that my daughter got to experience a game, like one of those, she plays field hockey for Woodrow Wilson high school, the biggest public school in DC. See with an enrollment of about eighteen hundred. The Tigers opponent last week was the only other DC public school with a field hockey team school without walls, which has about a third as many kids as Wilson and no athletic fields at its downtown building. Very few of the girls on either team played field hockey before high school and the teams more often than not get stopped by the private schools fill out their schedules one of which by the way as varsity equestrian team. But rivalry does not care about ability. And this has been an up year for Wilson and walls foxy. That's right. Foxy field hockey foxy Wilson has a few talented seniors. One might play division three in college walls has a new coach, a Pakistan native who plays for the United States over fifty men's national team who has helped narrow the competitive gap between the two schools. Wilson won a one, nothing squeaker last month. All right. So I get to the Wilson field for the rematch and plenty of time it senior day. I want to hear the tributes. Read the posters and watch the seniors run under the hoop of their teammates, raised sticks. As they are introduced over the loudspeaker khloe. My daughter sees me walking on the track past the sidelines and calls me over dad walls has a guy playing for them. It's true. There's a dude on the penguins. It's also true that walls nickname is the penguins. I learned that he's a sixteen year old foreign exchange student from the Netherlands where boys field hockey is totally normal sport. He is not small, looks to be about five, eleven one seventy one seventy five give or take. In any case, he's way bigger than all of the girls on the field. The Wilson players are understandably not happy and they're a little bit intimidated. Let me read section five point, seven point, two point two of the DC Interscholastic Athletic Association handbook which governs public school sports in the city boys on girls teams, a school may not permit a boy to participate in a girls team in any sport. If the schools. Overall boys, athlete, participation exceeds the girls that's title nine talking right there. The idea being girls have to have equal opportunity to play sports as boys. The State Athletic association, which governs events that include public private charter in independent schools in DC, like track meets and soccer championships is more explicit quote. If a school sponsors only girls team in a particular sport, boys shall not be permitted to participate on the girls team. I don't know what walls participation numbers are technically, in this case, it doesn't matter. And that's because with just to public school teams in the city field hockey isn't a sanctioned sport. It's a club and it's not clear what if any local guidelines apply every fall. There are examples around the country of boys trying to play on girls, field hockey teams in two thousand sixteen. Another boy from the Netherlands was barred from the Rhine New York high school varsity. He's on the US men's junior national team. Now in two thousand twelve. Who grew up playing in Ireland was barred from his high school varsity on Long Island. He then chose not to attempt to play for the boarding school. He attended outside of DC both practiced with and helped coach their high school teams. One of the girls on the walls team tells me they've liked having the Dutch player on the team that he's helped teach them skills and motivated them on the flipside, Massachusetts allows boys to play because of a nineteen Seventy-nine court. Ruling that said that barring boys from girls teams violated the state's equal rights amendment boys play for dozens of schools in Massachusetts every year. And the question of fairness is raised pretty much every year. This doesn't seem complicated to me. Women fought for decades to gain access to sports and it's still not equal. Public schools were hit with to federal title, nine complaints in recent years. And the city's participation numbers still aren't balanced. Letting a boy play on a girls. Team denies opportunities for girls in some fashion, either a raw. Oster spot or playing time and the standard for other DC. Interscholastic sports is clear. Then there's the testosterone part post Pugh. Bessant boys might not have any skill advantage in field hockey, but they have a profound biological advantage in size, strength and speed. That's not only unfair. It can be dangerous as a doctor at children's hospital in Boston, told the Boston, Globes, sheer a Springer in two thousand fifteen teenage boys have quote the equivalent of a performance, enhancing drugs circulating in their system relative to the girls. They're playing against and quote. Springer noted that sixteen to eighteen year old boys have ten times as much testosterone in their bodies as girls the same age. But at the Wilson walls game, the coaches and refs talk it over and everyone agrees to let the Dutch boy play. The Wilson coach tells me after the game that she was apprehensive and was relieved spoiler alert that no one was injured except for a few minutes. At the start, the boy plays the entire game. He wears. Shorts, not a skirt, like everybody else. He has by far the strongest drive on the field whacking the ball, and he's a pretty good dribbler. He backs down defenders like shack and even manages to draw to green card fouls against Wilson girls which come with a two minute penalty for allegedly getting tripped. But the Wilson girls do a fantastic job of containing him every poke check or blocked shot gets a big cheer from the Wilson players and fans after a scoreless. First-half. Wilson takes the lead on a goal by the future d- three player Julian. The game is end to end. There's lots of student and parent fans for both teams. The Wilson dad's sitting next to me, bless his heart, screaming obstruction. Every time the Dutch boy backs his butt into a Wilson defender with ten seconds to play. Wilson is called for another foul against the Dutch kid giving walls a penalty corner, which is like a soccer corner kick, but much more complicated to explain walls doesn't score, but immediately gets a second corner. And this time the. The Dutch boy does put the ball in the cage. One to one sudden death overtime, ten minutes, seven versus seven instead of eleven v eleven. The atmosphere is tense. The varsity football team has shown up for practice and they're totally into it as the clock ticks down the walls and Wilson players are visibly gassed that can barely run, let alone manage decent shots, nobody scores, which means penalty strokes, seven yards out. You have to scoop flick or push the ball. You can't smack it. Five girls take turns. Wilson goes make make miss, make miss to MRs walls goes make make mis- mis- and here's Wilson junior Hannah gauge with the livestream call of the final walls shot. A heroic save by the sophomore goalkeeper for the win the Wilson girls. Dog pile in front of the goal football players joined the celebration, a few feet away the walls player surround and console their goalkeeper a couple of walls girls fall to their knees in tears. There's a full chill in the air. It's a quintessential high school sports moment all around. I'm thrilled. I got to watch it, but more thrilled that the girls got to live it. That's our show for today. Our producers, Patrick fort to listen to past shows and subscribe or just reach out, go to slay dot com. Slash hang up and you can Email us at hang up at slate dot com. I'm Steffan fats. This remembers Elmo. Beatty and thanks for listening.

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Sports Scandals, Plus NFLPA President J.C. Tretter | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Dual Threat with Ryen Russillo

54:44 min | 4 months ago

Sports Scandals, Plus NFLPA President J.C. Tretter | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

"Hey what's up Brian? Russillo podcast here. Part of Network and as you know today's episode the Ryen Russillo podcast. Podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like sports. The game of life is unpredictable. Tacos farm agent get a teammate. And can help you navigate the unexpected. It was unexpected. Dial a pair up power block dumbbell showed up at my house. Oh wow you finally got something. I paid for them so you don't have to get all in your feeling. I just you said you couldn't get anywhere. No I ordered them and I thought okay. I saw plenty of places processing my credit card for stuff that hasn't been sent which I imagine we'll be sent eventually but these were is. When I saw something on Amazon I was like Oh man. Oh that's cool. I'll get him in April. Oh March okay. Well cool. Maybe I'll just work in my arms July twelfth so nothing cleaning. Try Not to complain about anything but I was very very happy because the power blocs rolled in from power block themselves I Gosh now I feel bad I. This is not a power block read. I'm telling you the brand because there's only like two brands that really do the adjustable dumbbells. It's not like you can even buy them now right now anyway. Because they're also that so they got so. I gotTA teammate. That could help. And you need to get a teammate. Who can help you navigate the unexpected talk to a state farm agent today? So that's where I'm at right now excited about that part of it and we'll we'll just keep building this little gym with no members over here at the house. Today's plan we're GONNA have to the Cleveland browns. He is now the NFL PA president and they have a new CBA. So I want to go over that with him while a little fun with the fact that being an Ivy Leaguer in an NFL locker room probably isn't always the coolest thing but it's great to be an Ivy League or if you want to be president of the NFL PA which he is now replacing. Eric Winston who's no longer in the League we'll talk about the CPA and then of course What they know again. It's very limited information here. What we know about the future. What could all ask all those questions and answers? We're GONNA get but before we do that. This week's open is about scandals in scandals in sports and whenever we read the initial headlines The final conclusion is usually always very underwhelming. Now there's a bunch of different scandals that we can go through. I'll get those a little bit later. But the reason I bring this up is because of. Hbo's new documentary called the scheme that has to do with the F. B. I. Investigating pay for play scenarios with Big Time College basketball programs now. At the center of the stories Christian Dacas Christian doctrines is a kid who grows up in Saginaw Michigan. His father's a legendary high school basketball coach. He wants to play. Basketball is not gonNA work out for him. Is he very bluntly puts it? Draymond Green was an upperclassman and he was like. Oh wait. Maybe I'm not going to be great and I'm not GonNa play in the NBA. But he's a smart kid and he put together these scouting report website at a very young age and started shouting actually charging people to get the information. He had the side business that he was doing on his own while he was going through school. We're not even talking college because he was like. I don't really think I even need to go to college. But he was making these connections and he was relating to kids that were going to be going through the hoops pipeline whether it was a you and then ultimately college and then maybe even the rare cases of them selecting an agent so he's now connected okay he becomes disconnected guy and this stuff happens and as I've said numerous times on the show that I am not an NCAA anarchist. I do not want it to be blown up. I do believe that the players can be compensated more strictly the Revenue Generating Players College Football College basketball. If you're telling me the women's tournament makes enough money so that the women's players can get paid a little bit more a mall if you're telling me the College Baseball World Series brings in enough revenue that you can start paying some baseball players. That are strictly in that tournament. The Look depending on what side of the argument on some of you will argue. Everybody deserves a half a million dollars. That stupid the other side of it where you say. Oh well. There's no way any of these players could be paid any money because the money generated by football and basketball pays for all of the other programs. And if you take money away from that you're GonNa have to take away programs lacks without you get title nine issues and all this different stuff and I'm like okay. Maybe maybe maybe that's the case like I've looked at some of the stuff that's floated around like. Oh that looks pretty convincing. But why are teams wire programs losing money? Well I'll tell you the reason. Why is because they're paying coaches so much more now? Nebraska actually leads the country. I saw this number of the other day. There'd almost like twenty million dollars still paying out to people that aren't working in the football program just a football program. The that's crazy. Okay so wait a minute. So who's accountable for that one? Well the fire. And the coaches are divided. We were to get rid of other coaches. So you know that's the way these contracts work and the other part of this is every time we see a brand new football facility and all the bills and whistles like man. Look how exciting that is? That's really cool. But you know what else it is. It's another way to spend more and more money to continually upgrade your facilities. That probably don't Ne- always need these upgrades so that you can find a way to spend all the money so you can make a justification for not paying any of the players. I think the players generate money should be paid. I'm okay with that but I also think with the NCAA decides to let players declare for the NBA draft to go back to school. If they're not drafted which is rule change. They did two years ago when I was on. Get up and the guys get up. Looked at me like I was an idiot because okay. That's good for the NCAA. Though smart good for the players like that's a nice concession. How dare you? How dare you sir? How can you sit there and say the NCAA? Did something actually good? What is wrong with you? I'm like all right. Whatever is that we're doing and I think that's actually what most people doing so that gets back. To the documentary. The scheme of Christian doctrines ends up being hooked up with Andy. Miller was a big time. Nba Agent and a guy the Christian doctrines who has these relationships as a young black kid. Who is speaking the same language as somebody that Generally most the basketball players were talking about here young kids and they're going to connect with him instead of an older white guy. All this makes sense It would make sense to you. You're young Black Kid. Makes sense year old white banker who has only dealt with people that went to the same prep schools colleges in the same country clubs as you? Hey I know this guy speaking my language To me this isn't necessarily even about prejudice a lot of times it's just comfort level with who you're comfortable with okay. So that's just a belief that I have and in this case doctors because incredibly valuable like you can't put a number on what Christian doctrines value would be Andy Miller's agency because he is at the grassroots level of this knows everybody's deal okay. Here's what that families like. Here's the situation. Here's a challenge here. Here's where I think. This kid is leaning. And the unfortunate. Part of this is underworld. Isn't really an underworld because anybody can have sports the amount of stories that I have and I don't even know that they're all true and I wouldn't really share really any of them other than in super vague terms but just go. Hey if you're a kid that has its ability that a bunch of people want. It's not necessarily the free market but is kind of the free market because somebody is going to be they're willing to pay you some money It's not every single school that's out of control. Not every single player has a handler. Not every guy getting a bag of cash but it happens and we know this and the schemes documentary tells us more how this all goes down. So Dawkins is working for Andy Miller and the other part of this. It's fascinating is the agent risk. Give you want to get in the aging game? I thought at some point when I was younger because I wanted to work in sports. WanNa be an agent. Mike God you know look if you work for the big agency. You're never gonNA make much because you're getting them clients and they're taking the commission and maybe make a nice salary. But you're never gonNA make that serious bleep. You kind of money. We all want. Maybe some of you. Don't I do the other part of that is if you're a guy trying to break into it with your own agency? Then you've got to start putting money out there all over the place and you might be paying ten twenty different players. Alpine out the family a little bit here and there. You're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars payments across all these different players. Because you're not necessarily doing anything wrong. You're just breaking an NCAA rule well. All of those players could decide. You know what I'm out I'M GONNA go sign with the big agent. You're just as new guy. Thanks for the cash and the hoodies. But I'm out and you can't really do anything about it. There's nothing really you can do now. Some I've heard stories about agents trying to you. Know go at people legally and all these different things. But that's a massive risk because you're not really representing the kid as an agent because you can't do that because of the NCAA but you can be helping the whole way. So Dawkins is in this world. He admits to all of it. Okay and along comes this character named Marty Blaser who was wrapping Specifically in this case Lamar Woodley and some other athletes where he was taking money from them because he wanted to finance a movie and the movie they referencing. There is Mafia this movie. That was a bomb and so the SEC starts investigating Mardi Blazers financial guy that stealing from his clients. Blazers like will look. I can hook you up with this Christian doctrines kid who had lost his job with Andy Miller over this uber scandal. I'm not going to go through the entire time. Out of this whole show is just watched the show and so Christian wants to get his own agency going and he needs money behind him. And so what happens is blazer to try to get himself out of jail goes to the FBI. And it's like I can. I can being a little loose with all of this. Be Too much detail specifically like look. I I can help you set up some of these big name coaches in the college basketball world. Like here's what I know so now the FBI Zach. Well wait a minute. Nobody even knows that is Mardi Blazer Guy. Is You know what we want. We want those big names. 'cause that's what happens in all of the stuff. That's what happens with the southern district. This is what happens with lawyers that want to make a name for themselves. What happens if investigators are like how can I get some big name? People out there to get some recognition. I mean these guys have egos too. And we've all watched movies or read books about the investigator that love the headlines and love the spotlight and a lot of these guys want that. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but we're just understanding the motivation so as soon as the FBI. Here's wait a minute. We can go after like a rick. Pitino you can go after a Shawn Miller. We can go after all of these other coaches like. Let's go ahead and do that like this is going to be awesome. So how do we do all right? What's what we're GONNA do. We're GONNA have an FBI agent poses a money guy the money guys gonNA give Christian doctrines money and there were GONNA get dachshunds to bribe these coaches now. The funniest part of this whole thing is that doc is telling the FBI undercover who these things is just as rich guy named Jeff on a yacht that has a bunch of clubs and weirs fancy watches again. He's an FBI guy. He's like why do you want me to bribe? I I give a coach. A certain amount of money like it doesn't mean anything like that's stupid and then dock and starts talking to the assistant coaches. He's like yeah. This Jeff Guy wants to give all this cash these coaches he's like skies stupid like and it's funny because Dr doesn't hold back he's like this guy's a fucking idiot so the the dock ins angle on it. It's like I'm just going to keep the money that the FBI is giving me. Even though he's being wiretapped even though he's being filmed at all these different things. So like the first thing that jumps out at you watch like okay. Let me get this straight like the FBI was more interested in setting up Christian doctrines to set up these bigger coaches even though dockets is giving money to players again against the NCAA rules. I don't have. I'm not sitting here saying I have a ton of sympathy for Dawkins but I have zero from Ari Blazer who's like no actually stealing money but the FBI didn't care about him because nobody knew who he was so they were going big game hunting. And that's what happens and that's kind of where I'm at with. Where every time there is this massive scandal and there are all these headlines. And let's go through this IOS sports and I'm not knocking Yahoo at the time but Yahoo two years ago along with. Espn started talking about what was going to happen with the NCAA tournament happening right as the tournament. Field is being announced. I'm GonNa read from this piece. Nearly half the top programs in the nation this season could be named along with notable coaches in the league prospects An unnamed source in the Yahoo. Sports report said quote. When this all comes out hall of fame coaches should be scared lottery. Picks won't be eligible to play and almost half of the sixteen teams at the. Ncaa showed in its initial NCA tournament. Show this weekend should worry about their appearance. Being vacated here are the sixteen teams the source refers to Virginia Villanova Xavier Purdue Auburn Kansas Duke. Cincinnati Clemson Texas Tech Michigan State North Carolina Tennessee Arizona Ohio State Oklahoma. That has even mentioned that. Crayton's mentioned in the documentary Luvell isn't even on this list and Lova was hooked up with the whole Brian Bowen situation. Who was a player that ended up getting paid the MO the Father Wanted Money Adidas and the Louisville connection and all these different deals with the sneaker part of it all connected so I remember reading that going? Oh my God. In the documentary they show people reacting to this report saying this could be the biggest scandal in the history of Sports. Not Just College basketball but the history of sports and it just reminded me of all the other times. I've heard that before member Balakot and Victor Conte and Barry Bonds An IRA agent that just didn't like bonds and there's some backstory that like. He didn't give them an autograph and then he started diving through his dumpster and he put together this massive case the cost millions and millions of dollars. I was reading through it again. I read the book on it and Victor. Conte ended up in jail for four months and bonds ended up with a obstruction of justice. Charge while trainer did pushups in jail. All of that for Victor. Conte who he said once he was in jail when he got out he was like yeah. I talked to other inmates about how to use steroids. That's what I did remember the scandal. I went through that disaster last night. That went on forever. Wait a minute the World Cups and in member. We all found out it wasn't guitar. It was cutter. That was huge news on the time. Like wait a minute. The World Cup's in cutter. And it's hot and now we've got to change the date of it and wait a minute. It's going to be after Russia but Russia's and allowed to happen I mean fee for being crooked is the least surprising sports story of my lifetime. A lot of people resigned. People were fine. I think I've found one guy from Portugal that actually went to jail. Do you remember in the late nineties when the US Department of Justice Launched Investigation against the Olympic Committee with the Salt Lake City deal with the Olympics. Being there okay. The investigation had fifteen counts of fraud conspiracy racketeering against bid leaders and charges that were thrown out by the federal government midway through their trial in two thousand and three ending the case that was supposed to rock the Olympic world. And we realized that. Wait a minute so what happens. Like the Olympic are kind of decided based on bribes. Just like wait a minute. How did the Olympics honestly some of the countries that host it? It's so stupid it's like okay. We're going to build all of this infrastructure and then it's all going to rot afterwards where to spend all this money to pretend that we have our shit together financially as a nation and everything to come here. We'RE GONNA wave. I mean you WanNa talk about the shortest term. Sec luncheon coach introduction whereas like you won the press conference. Are you GonNa win any games when I read about these aftermath things? I am sympathetic about some things but when I read this story and be like. Oh my gosh you know. The pools are riding. The facade is falling. What did you think was going to happen? Did you think archery was just GonNa blow up and you were going to need all of these places to shoot arrows. No so you've got the Olympic thing that led to after Salt Lake Zero Charge Larry. She's me zero convictions. The case thrown out Kati four months in jail. The fever thing one guy that I could find that could be wrong. But it's not the number you would think it be The Mitchell report which I remember when it came out I was sitting next to somebody on television desk. Said this is the biggest day in the history of baseball. I'm like ordered. Isn't I don't know what the biggest day a history for baseball was? I was thinking about it today as a Jackie. Robinson is a babe ruth going the Yankees Lou Gehrig's speech. Is it something bigger than that? Is it Hank? Aaron's home run is not bonds. But what is it? We know what it isn't it isn't the Mitchell report where it's like. Hey about you guys did steroids. We dragged Roger Clements. We drag some trainers. We had a weird conversation. We're gone you is referred to as maybe a steroid guy and after bud ceiling got done reading it. He was like okay. I'm going to take some action here and the players finally gave it it a more testing because the players who actually were taking Mr Royston me are far more to blame than the owners who didn't install any device to prevent this ahead of time. So that kind of leads you back to the collusion this whole thing. It's really our fault in the media right because we can't help ourselves we cannot no matter what we do nobody can come on. No one would ever book me as a guest McKay. Do you WanNa talk about this college basketball scandal. A what's your take. Yeah probably underwhelming okay. Can we book somebody else? I remember these two screen me sometimes on stuff. They'd be okay. Do you WANNA stop sportscenter. He wants to buy. I take going to do this. Yeah Yeah Yeah what okay. What do you got and then I would just say the producers is you. Can't you just come on and say it's going to be the biggest fucking disaster in the history of the world? Can't you just please say that? No I can't because it never is and that's my point and it is our fault because I saw guys in this documentary going on saying this is going to be the biggest thing ever like. I said before because nobody's GonNa say probably below over. I don't know what he's going to do any real jail time. I guess that Bosch Guy. In the era thing he went to jail for a little bit but then his sentence was reduced. The Patino had his issues that Luevano belief Tino when it comes to anything. Patino could point to me and say my name's Ryan and I would be like I'm not sure so. He's done Christian charges of up to two hundred years that didn't happen and people lost their jobs. Put a bigger points thought the end of college basketball. It's not eligible teams in the tournament. It's not players ineligible for games. It's not lottery. Guys having their careers derailed. It's not the into Shawn Miller Miller or anything that's going on it just isn't it just isn't it isn't the end we love saying it's the end we love saying it's GonNa be the most significant thing ever and it it almost never ever is and you just need to remind yourself the next time you hear about the biggest scandal in sports all right. Let's talk some football woodstock some CBA during this time of social distancing connecting with friends over beer today looks pretty different as the original light. Beer Miller lite has always been there to bring people together in real life through Miller Time Miller time is a moment for people to come together and realize to connect or a few beers but having Miller time is tough. When you can't be with your people everyone is in the same boat. Our favorite local bars are temporary. 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L. O. At checkout go to woo that's W. H. O. P. Dot Com and enter the Code Russillo R. U. S. S. I. L. O. At checkout to save fifty percents sleep better recover faster and train smaller optimized your performance with loop. I'm excited to do this. You guys know how much I like doing these things we did. One with the more Smith Winston before Eric Winston was the president of the NFL Union and the new president is JC shredder. Part of the Cleveland Browns as well and now a vet and now in charge of this whole thing so how's it feel to be president of the NFL Players Association? I it's something you WanNa do to give back in. You know the guys that you're you're playing with allegations came before union guys by Liberty. Can you know kind of leave a legacy and do as much work to to help promote the players side of this and get the benefits? I all the rules shaped as well as you can. Just try it you ask the guy. It's huge honor and it's been a great experience so far now. What did you think of the deal? I know how much you spend on this. I'm GonNa go backwards here a little bit but now that the deal is done and I you know I'm not going to go over with you but we've talked about it before on this podcast. But how do you feel about now that it's done? Yeah obviously as a group. It was a close vote. We know that we we've seen the numbers you know. A sixty don't margin And we knew going into it after he a tight tight. Bo- both sides. You know there are people who loved you get. All sides are extremely vocal so we kind of understood we. We're going into an out and then have with the elections. That was the kind of understanding was we. We didn't know it wasn't a slam dunk each way. We didn't know whether it was a sale. I'm so studio actions. That was kind of part of the conversation is knowing that whoever the next leader has to be willing to step into both of those realities of going back to a renegotiation or trying to move us forward so Now of course hindsight we get it all figured out that. It's it's about moving forward and try and do brings all together. It was gonna be bringing together whether the vote went. Yes or no but now trying to get everybody on the same page and understand. Three seasons guys were against the deal. those critiques. Those concerns don't fall a death years. There's still something some things we can fight for awesome changes we can find ways to make this deal continuing better But it's kind of coming together and the passion energy that guys were putting in that lasts two months when this kind of got ratcheted up Continuing that interesting passengers. That's how everybody involved process. When I think about this I was trying to mind. Fans Lee members. It's thirty two owners. That are very much aligned As far as their upbringing Financially the long play knowing that you're if you own a team you're going to win because depreciation value and the new TV deal that it's coming and that it's two thousand plus voices with completely different backgrounds all over the map when it comes to what kind of earnings they're going to have throughout their entire career. How hard is it to try to get two thousand plus people going in the same because as you said it's like sixty votes and this could have gone the other way? I can't imagine how challenging that is to a lot of people that you know you're at the top of your field but it doesn't mean you see the the deal the same way and you don't see the future the same way. Yeah I mean that's what we set out. A few years back was really focusing on the core players and we felt like that was something we could really improve from the previous seal. The core players are the minimum salary is the back of the roster guys that had not been passed by but we felt their their benefits their salaries. The kind of lagged behind in the previous deal flow is something we had set out to make sure we fix not receive raise a minimum salary substantially in this deal trying to reach back. Those those guys make up sixty to sixty five percent of the of the voting walk. So obviously you know. That's that's the group that we targeted because we felt we needed to do better by them in the seal You said it right. There are so many different outlooks. Not only where you fall financially. Go where you fall in your career at Gand just diving into your career being a rookie in what you're looking for a deal in what you think benefits you There are a lot of different opinions so trying to find something that benefits everybody I in in kind of provide safety security for everybody is the difficult process for kind of the process. We have to try and figure out the seventeenth game. What was the real sense that you got on? What the divide was fifty fifty seventy thirty eight hundred because in the media it felt like. Oh everybody's against the seventeenth game. What did you see as far as these players? The numbers how many were actually opposed the idea of a seventeenth game. Once they knew they were going to get paid for it. Yeah it's it's tough to tell because obviously as in anything. You never know whether the vocal group is a vocal minority your accurate depiction of of the voices in the room. So I think a Lotta guys again. I think the most part didn't come down to seventy game. I think we understand the risks of playing football in the wear and tear on our bodies and it wasn't about what we've added one more game to the potential gains play Austin was. How do we try to limit? The amount of exposure killed risk that we have. I think that was a lot of guys interest or or worries. Are we opening ourselves up to more closure more risk in trying to find ways to decrease the load in training camp and now we've limited added practices substantially in training camp? We've added a five day acclimation period training camp trying to find ways to decrease that risk on the on the front end of the season with this edition of the seventeenth game. I think it was in everybody's buying in the end it came down to is what's being put out there as the other side of the deal worth it you to play that additional game in for the majority of the answer. Angela is yes. I think everybody had to weigh understanding. What the risk the play more. Football Brings Even short term term as well as lobster. How varied was the science on your research? I'm not saying like the research that you conducted yourself but like the people in medicine that the players trust which I know is tough to find but how was it was it definitive. Was it all over the place? Like what kind of conclusions did you feel? Comfortable with about. The science endangers of a seventeenth game. It comes down to the the more football in trying to decrease those in tactful hits. And you're GONNA see those a lot more in two parts of your season during games in the other one during trains. During the season practices your rarely seeing those high impact shifts that can cause significant damage So with the addition of the game it was about okay. Well if we're going to add the impact hits in that game. These games in the back end of the season that we have to find the other part of the schedule in protect us from significant hits dead. That kind of trade off was okay. When training camps the only time that we're gonNA see significant damage to our bodies when it comes to impact hits so let's try to limit the time where paths that way we take those out of the equation Limit the amount of time on the field during practice. We down a half hour or we used to be able to the CEO Looking at it that way of okay. We're going to try to even this out of the risk and how we're going to be planning so what did happen then with the delay because once those of us in the outside. It's like well wait a minute. Executive Committee is voting on this and now they voted against this proposal. And now there's a delay for forty eight hours and now can you go back and help us further? Understand what that timeline was. Because I mentioned that had been incredibly stressful for you but now it seems like the executive committee that's the players are telling its entire constituency to actually vote against the deal. You agree to yeah so I. I wasn't a part of the E C or the president of the time all that that went down so as a time years one of thirty two team reps right at that prior to officially becoming President Right. Yes so I became president. The back half of the voting Wants to loading okay. So for me. It came down to a vote that all the reps had to make in that. Has it down the players and that needed become a simple majority and that ended up again? Similar to the voting from the players was very tight ended up I think. Seventeen fourteen abstain again was very close. Where one or two votes than flips it. The player would have never seen the offer would never have voted on the offer So that that was kind of how the rules of the voting where the E. C. Either vote yes or no but it comes down to the reps whether they pass it onto the players are not and and the rest voted to pass on players. Let the players make final decision whether they liked it or whether they wanted us to go to renegotiation and then when we extended the two days we felt we wanted. There's a lot of guys who said I just need more time to read this document. She'll come with my vote So we decided to give it a few days to give him time to try to reach through the document and feel comfortable. Now is the main thing that was our main focus was on. We educate the guys understand. What's in this deal? Give them enough time naked. Educated go now. Is what a lot of wrestler preaching was. You know we're not going to tell you about yet. Take no but just make an educated and understand the positives the negatives and the impact is going to have. And then make your vote and you talk to them and said I need a little more time. We thought that was talking to a couple of different people about it. I don't think people understand how I don't know if high schools the best analogy here by your the player. Rep You have to be informed for your team but then you can go back to your Locker Room. And some of the younger guys. That are really questionable. Like imagine your impressionable as you're like. We all are the beginning of our careers. Meaning we're doing and then older guys are Kinda like say. Hey this is how you should vote. This is how you should vote and then it it. Kinda gets carried away because you don't want to be the younger guy telling the other guy. Hey I disagree the U. And and it's up to you to do all that work but there's a very Basic kind of human nature pattern of this thing of how complicated it is to make sure that everybody's voting with their own interest is instead of maybe voting the way the cool guy on the team wants you to vote the way even football at self works where you come into the locker room and you you kind of go. I've got to do what this older guy who I look up to does to try to make it in this league. So you even from the get-go Justin when it comes to your football career you're thinking I need to emulate what this guy does do what he does to try to make it as long as he has and then you forget he's in kind of a different part was fruit and you are when you look yet a CVA agreement debt determines our work. Rules are paying benefits. You kind of have to look out for your own and make your own best decision and not rely on somebody who's not exactly looking through this thing lands you are i. m s had a analyst. That's why we we try to get as much information to the players individually we. We held phone call Everybody could get onto again. Answer any questions keypad. And you're just trying to make educated in making sure they understand everything this is the deal before. They cast their ballot by the way. When you're running for president and I know there was a couple other players that are up for it. Do you have to make speech? Do you have to say like? Hey I know offensive. Lineman aren't the coolest I know. I know I'm not. Sec Guy and I went to Cornell thank you is. Is it just like election where you have to get up there and make these speeches? Yeah no it's. It's a significant process. So every gave a five ten minutes speech in front of the group and then we break out into six separate rooms without a five or six teams in each room. And you do a twenty minute. Cuna with each of those rooms. So you're going there and everybody can ask you questions about what's your stance on this part of the Va. What's your plan is so's good. What's your too so they can Baking just ask you whatever you want us go through each room and make sure everybody understands where you stand on each issue and then you come back as a group and make your vote so it's a it's a full all did you all right so I didn't mean he gets sidetracked by this but I am kind of like. Did you rehearse it in front of anybody did you? Did you call a parent? Did we talk about a significant other that you had to go over like what was your theme of your? You're trying to be the president of the NFL PA so the Cuban age you. You don't really know what's coming at you so you can't really prepare for that kind of have to go off and you understand and what your knowledge is answer. People's questions The speech I definitely prepared Definitely it was up way into the early hours of the morning. Writing the siege out and and try to put your best foot forward and try to sell yourself. S. Four for the job in a major read it a few times to my wife and make sure it sounded rights feedback. Did she say like leave? That part out or you talk about your hobbies more. Yes you. She was very helpful. She was very helpful end at. She's a tough grader. So I she she beige. You're not to patronize me. At all or do if I'm not major give me the the straight for truth but no. It was a a really unique kind of program of going through the election process Anna was I. Everybody felt like they could make informed. Vote for that. They thought they had enough time to talk to each candidate in figuring out who they wanted to vote for. Is that the first time. You think Cornell's helped you in the NFL. I think so. I definitely that was one of those things where you want to bring it up but also you don't be like this guy just throws around the Ivy League at the time so that was kind of a unique balance of making sure was no but not being. We can't just try not to do like an eighty Bernard right. Yeah where you're like ever heard of it not to wear light. Khaki pants with us Votes on them or anything like that made sure to try to blended. That's smart 'cause I always try to not that I it sucked at ESPN. Because I I went to Vermont and so everybody that we're making all these these bets on football stuff like wouldn't even have a football team and you had a nice little basketball run shout out to the UVM catamounts but when you're a NFL locker room and it's it's getting ready for those big Saturday games. I imagine you don't have a lot of guys that you can bet with it. Just it's you've probably feel a little left out when you're an Ivy League. Maybe Ray guy every now and then but he wasn't ally yet another Ivy League Guy Stanfield senior locker room and I actually think people people hear US talking about the. It's almost like we're affirmative plan. Where they what do you mean like? There's two thousand people at Your Game. What did you did? You never play college. I could just stay in high school site. You guys don't understand like it's it's not the SEC. There's no you know what I know when I first got to Green Bay and we started talking about crowd noise it was like I never played in crowd. Hardly out the idea that you could hear your there was no risk to snap. How in in those states? That's amazing I'd never really thought about that. So maybe the next Ivy League quarterback prospect. We could be a while but the next one comes along it would just be. I would love to be on a radio. Show the next day going while you know. I don't know if I trust this Sunday inside Atlanta's dome that's that's good all right. So here's here's another thing that I find kind of you would send it earlier is what's real. What's what's the actual majority of players. What's the vocal minority? Because you'll have you know Russell. Coup who obviously had a major problem with this entire process and filed the Labor Board. Deal against it yet. Eric read it was like we need a recount and Eric. Reed seems to want to fight with a lot of different stuff. And then you've got pouncey doing his dry by video and his in his jeep losing his mind and then Aaron Rodgers. Who apparently just doesn't WanNA practice. He's like I would like six months off if I could. We consume that. Not only media's fans going wow I guess this deal is terrible and I guess how much of it is balancing. Hey what's good for the group versus your individual concerns and I imagine that's going to be like I know these your players and all that kind of stuff it's a brotherhood but I have to imagine it becomes incredibly frustrating when you see this stuff pop up and then you guys talk about it later. Yeah I think there's a balance. There was a lot of passionate debate in debate. It's not a bad thing divisions of that and I think we were. We were fine with guys voicing their opinions being very vocal outwear. 'cause it's the best way probably for guys to understand everything that's in the CVA for Mulhall respects what we don't want is a division within the Union And that's something that as we come together now in in continue to fight for guys are asking for you know you hope we we men defense. Is that the kind of broke down. But but that's the thing I'm all for guys voicing their opinions on what they agree and what they disagree with Like I said if that don't let that passion Get Extinguished now that the deals done because we can still fight for things we can still fight changes even within a CPA's term so if you're still passionate about those issues and you're still interested in those issues. Don't kind of fall back into the distance. You know. Stay stay vocal instead interested in stay involved because that's the only way we're going to get things done as if we stand together. Twenty five hundred players strong and fight with. That was a really good answer now. I know why you're president. That was that was tactful. We get more from JC Including the plan if there is any plan for the rest of the football calendar but today's podcast is sponsored by ADT commercial for business add commercial serves businesses ranging from mid size organizations to large scale enterprises. Think of them as a special team has one focus your business security that provide comprehensive line of security fire life safety and risk management solutions professional grade sister. Mersal great businesses with ADT commercial every day is Game Day Fortune. One thousand companies rely on ADT commercial for highly complex scalable integrated solutions that help solve their unique business challenges. And if you're looking for a part upgrade or to take over the monitoring and service of your current system. Adt Commercial can help to painlessly install and maintain large scale multi site businesses. They make it easy to switch providers their on boarding predictable dependable and painless schedule. A No obligation security review with. Add commercial business no pain. That's good in sports and good visit security visit. Att Dot Com for Slash Game Day to learn more that's ADT dot com slash game day. Six hundred players didn't vote. I think those are the number what happened. I don't know it's you know there's part of you. You want one hundred percent return on the ballots But you look at it that I think. That's more of a cultural issue. I think we see that in any election vote. Younger guys is so we don't see we don't see who voted or get the the numbers on any Who was yeses? Who were the knows? That was a third party like the boats are bare vitamin senators. All so we can't even look back and see well okay. Who who did we miss out on? Do not touch. And that's the thing I I don't think it's an issue. I think we see this in the presidential elections there near as a segment of the population. That doesn't Bo you cope especially in this live at you know these are going to be the rules. You play under the benefit structure pay structure. You'd hope people would be Interested in making sure that their voice was heard Sometimes in it and You know that's something we we are always gonNA continue to fight for trying to get systems in place to get one hundred percent raw return on the ballots. But I think that's more of a kind of a cultural thing. Nationwide thing that an L. P. H. So just basically the the voting body representing kind of what we have scars voting habits in the presidential election. You mentioned the bump which I think is great for the minimum players is going to be five hundred thousand started the new. Cba by the end of it. It'll be about a million dollars minimum if I have those numbers right and I had set a podcast after the deal came out. You know there's a lot of things in here that you would like the players which means that's how bad the owners want the extra playoff game and how badly they wanted that seventeenth game. It's like some of the other stuff that you guys are worried about. We're going to concede on it now. The argument could be hey. These things shouldn't be concessions. These are things should have happened before whether it's the punishment and the way that's ruled on in some of the testing for marijuana and all different stuff that seemed to be going in the players direction a lot of this stuff becomes philosophical. I had said you know the best way to try to get a a group. Vote for you is do appeased of the numbers and as you mentioned. The minimum numbers cover like sixty to sixty five percent of the players. I was like I think that's strategically was right by the owners and a player did reach out to me and said No. That's actually something. The players Union wanted more and the owners agreed. So did you think so. I'm asking you admitting that. Maybe I made a mistake on that. Was it something? The owners more agreeable to because they know they'd get more votes for that was that they were doing or is that just part of as I guess a proposal by your side that they are then agreed to that became part of the final print. I can't speak to under somewhere with the owner for thinking I'm sure It was definitely a priority of ours. So that was something we went into. We're talking about it for years at meetings about how we go about helping our minimum salary place so that that was a huge fiery lars navy. They're interested in that for multiple reasons but I think they were also interested in trying to help out our players to go agreeable too. It was about finding out. How do we how do this? But it was one of our Irish. It was something that we set out to do. I don't think it makes it any less of a win or any less of a benefit either way. That was something that we wanted we and and I really do. That's that's a big deal but then again it becomes part of this thing if I'm a guy that's all pro if I'll make it a lot of money I mean it's the same thing that happens in the NBA. With the Max hours or it's like look I get that there's four hundred fifty players playing in the NBA. But there's ten of us that really matter and we WANNA make sure we get paid and more than ten get paid. So that's always something like we talked about this Kinda hard especially when that numbers over two thousand all right so the scary thing through all of this with everything that the country is facing that the world is facing here with the Corona Virus. If this vote swings the other way by thirty something votes you could be sitting here without a deal. Have you let yourself even think about what that would be like now facing a new challenge here with the uncertainty of when you're even coming back to play? What's going to happen with compensation knowing that you were that close to not having new deal? He asked one of those things. Usually hindsight comes about like six years down. The road in hindsight came about four days down the road after kind of a boat went. You can kind of see how the world looks so different just economically. Just kind of being in a state where we don't know what's going to happen. We are what's going to happen. How the situation break so? It's definitely something that you look back and think this. There are a lot of different lenses. Kind of look at this deal but navy. The Lens of were locked into a deal that our guys felt or a majority of our guys felt was a good deal as is now. We have the safety and security of being locked in in really tough economic times as well as a lot of uncertainty. That's another lens to look through it. And kinda think maybe you know maybe at each of the guys who were against it now looking at how binker shaken out about went the other way. So it's it's a unique situation because there's so much going on but it's definitely a look at UCD. Yeah because it would be. I think it'd be real uncertainty scary right Eventually you would get a new deal. You would figure it out with a new TV deal coming. Whatever your cut is now you know blow fifty percent. Which is I know what you guys want but that cut everybody's going to get a nice hit but now with this loss of revenue. What are they telling you about the plan is? There's a lot of things you talk about like the start date so let me just do that do you. WanNa play week one if the NFL saying. Hey we good to go. But it's going to be an empty stadium. It's going to be well. I don't want to make an Ivy League joke here because what had. What do you personally want to do as far as you know getting through this knowing that we always going to have to preface everything with the safety and people south and all the things like we get those things? You're smart enough that all of us understand those things but what do you want to do as a football player like what would you be willing to do to get out there for week one? Yeah I think you got yet always lead with it comes down to. What's the safest thing for players in the fans in everybody? Include the staff. Football's a giant operation. A lot of people involved right now. We know the risks of a lot of people getting together face So it's really tough to kind of dive into that far in advance of likened. Look like I mean you you go back whatever. It is three four weeks now. We thought we'd be ready to talented March madness going into the masters and this would be a totally different world. We're living or set change So it's Kinda tough. It changes every two weeks and we get new information. That's something we have phone calls constantly with our medical director getting the most up-to-date information on what's going on with this virus across the country across the world. I'M GONNA come down to kind of consistently making the decisions that move us in path four. And you can't get stuck at looking at all the variables that could lead you to physicians. That timber You kind of have to take each weeks making the right decisions to keep everybody safe. Not just an players. Nfl But the population in general we all you and I are trying to get this under control and no one's kind of immune to the issues that can come from this and we can't think that we're above the general population when it comes to making sure we're doing everything can to bring this all under control so say they say it's safe it's cleared but it's going to be without fans because we want to save the TV revenue. Would you before that? I think we have to look into it. I haven't even gotten that far to kind of dive into all the scenarios. Were like where right now? Focus on the off season trying to figure out how best to handle that We we haven't really gotten that deep down calendar just because we don't. We don't know what we don't know what the outlook of this this viruses like two weeks from now So we really try to focus on staying in really tight two week windows before we dive into what it would look like in September August. At this point we're semi nature the best decisions for the guys. Make sure he says look at that. Lookouts already weeks on the job. And you won't give me the quote that says President says I'm ready to go. Let's all right. Well I'll let me let me let you go with with just a couple more things had. Has there been any because I know. I think I know what you've been told from. You know you're right like a lot. You can be anti the owners. They could be whatever everybody I mean. I'm doing a hit in Chicago for an NBA thing a little bit later. I know they're going to ask me like what are you hearing? It's like you're asking me to answer a question. I don't I can't tell you like it'd be like asking somebody the ending of a movie they'd never seen before we can gas. We don't know but is there any preliminary discussion that gives you any sense of revenue? What's going to happen there because it would? It would be you know here. You are granted. The new deals and start right away. But I know that it's GonNa get weird because it's all connected. Where if there's not money and there's no stadium money than the players are GonNa feel just like the owners are the best way to explain it as when people say oh. I don't know I'm not sure people like all. They're hiding. Something like David. Now in the best way to kind of straight described is there's there's really no way to tell and that's the best way to laid out for some of this is ever changing and there's so many variables in it. There is no way to tell kind of how this all shakes out months in advance. And you really have to say dialed in the moment in these short windows because we don't have the information we don't have a crystal things are GonNa look like I am. They're Sony things in variables that can impact decisions that there's no reason to try to guess or put out preliminary plans that you just don't know how much time you're wasting with these when we could be looking at a totally different world Weeks from now that we are now so I think that's the best way to explain is really truly no way to tell you that far. No you're right you're right. I mean that really is the best answer. I just WanNa make sure that there wasn't something that wasn't asking a leave you on this. Is there some relief though knowing that we're not talking about the browns everyday on talk shows all off season because we just were just not as locked in the browns rosters? We were maybe a year ago yet. Obviously different different life living outlet last year. It was the top of the town. I think we're looking forward to as a team. Just just coming back and working. We're excited about what coast fancy in Andhra? Very GonNa do together in their outlook. But it's nice. I think we we've been talking about it. I think one of the selling points for for me. At least the seventeenth game is now. There's a chance to team. Goes Owens seventeen and no longer are not part of the the worst record of all time so they were looking through the glass half full here? But I've opened myself out the worst record under my belt with this new schedule. So that's good. I like that you still have. A small streak is selfishness in their leader. You're you're smart enough to know how to protect yourself. I would. I Know Bakers Young. But would he maybe a few years from now make a good? Nfl PA president. Baker is kind of a leader of people. I think he has. Us greatly improved. What comes to demeanor and saying this off season also pay. That's not a cheap shot at Baker. I had dinner with the Super Bowl at A. I'm just saying like I could see Baker looking at two thousand guys Jimmy Hoffa Salvi and we're get seventy percent. Everybody can fire up. The thing about Baker is from the day he wanted in that locker room. I mean he is like a magnet where people just flock to him. I mean he is truly a leader and just has that personality that guys WanNa be around him guys WanNa mix it up with them and try to get under his standing. He gets under their skin and that's just his personality all the time and he truly is the leader of our team and he keeps us all go in. He's the same guy whether it's coming off a Tuesday off your early morning on Wednesday or it's two minute drive to win the game on Sunday. He is the same guy these same personality. The same mentality all the time. And that's one thing about layers love but wears love consistency. So we don't we don't mind whatever whatever it looks like as long as it's consistent and each released insists. Jc congrats on the new. Deal congrats on the position and like a lot of football fans can't wait to see out there when we get settled in through all this stay safe all right absolutely. I hope you enjoyed today. Please subscribe right review. We'll keep up with these things out and gotTa do a mailbag thing I have to. I've talked about this. I have to come up with an email. I'll give collar you access to it as well more start doing some mailbag stuff which I think someone is done before so if somebody wants to get mad at me about stealing that idea that's been in a million times. That wouldn't be the first time I've heard that this week would seriously man all right talk to you Thursday.

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Taking you inside a contentious courtroom after a huge week in the federal corruption trial (10.12)

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

1:04:56 hr | 1 year ago

Taking you inside a contentious courtroom after a huge week in the federal corruption trial (10.12)

"The. They're scary. Parachute Friday, October twelve, two thousand eighteen welcome back to the island college basketball podcast. Matt norlander is here with. I'm gonna talk to him and just a second. But first let me tell you about seatgeek buy tickets. Online can be complicated, but it doesn't have to be not when you use seek, and that's because seek what they do is they searched multiple ticket sites for you. That will, you know you're getting the best prices, you get the best to get the best value. You can find what you want. And then like two clicks later you're buying tickets could not be easier. For instance, let's say you try to go in l. c. s. l. c. s. you wanna see dodgers brewers, onc- Red Sox. Astros just go open up that gap. Did it earlier today, type in what you're looking for? Your options are going to pop up, pick your seats by 'em matter of seconds. It really is simple. Simple simple. So next time you need tickets to anything. Basketball, baseball, football concerts, anything go to seek. Geek and don't forget use the promo code college BB that's college BB you can get twenty bucks off your first seek purchase. So mixture use pro college PB next time you buy tickets via the CD gap or at seatgeek dot com. That seatgeek millions of tickets in one place. So I'm packing Memphis. I just landed after spending yesterday and beautiful Rosemont Illinois, big ten media day norlander is home in Connecticut, but he spent the past three days in lower Manhattan taking the trials, Jim gadoe, Merle code and Christian dock. And so let's just dive straight in. You've been in the courtroom. What's the scene in the courtroom? What's the biggest headline from New York City this week? Peirce. Good to be back with you and glad you're back safe and sound at home. Looking forward to seeing you in a few days down in Florida, the courtroom. I'm glad you bring it up with the courtroom because I do feel like there's so much to get to. I mean, I've got, I've got pages of notes here. Pears we could. We will not. But I, I literally could go four hour. On this on the past three days alone, I will say that within the courtroom dynamic and what you know we're watching play out versus what you're seeing tweets in reading and stories. A lot of it is correlating. But one thing in particular that I don't think is just yet and I'm gonna write a column on some of this that I that we're gonna publish. I think on Monday morning Trump get set to resume. So the prosecution is is right now it's bringing it's witnesses into the courtroom that Brian, Bonin, senior who will talk about he's a prosecution witnesses. Compliance directors are prosecution witnesses and TJ gas Nola is a prosecution witness who liked bow and senior cut a deal with the government in an effort not to be put into jail. Bowen cannot be prosecuted. In this case, he has that deal. Gas Knowle's is not exactly the same. So with all of that, as these prosecution witnesses are talking on the stand when they're speaking to the prosecution, the lawyers that are representing the federal government. In this case. The questions that are coming out from afar. It's it's almost a bit ironic. 'cause we're hearing a lot of the dirt. We're hearing a lot of the bad stuff that's going on, but that stuff needs to be established to build the prosecution and the government's case. And so when those people are on the standing facing direct examination, there isn't any sort of fight about giving up all the misty's that have been done. And yet when they are faced by the defense and their attorneys, obviously it's more stop and go. They're not as. They're the words, don't come out quite as fluidly because in part because they don't know what kind of questions are going to be entered, but also because they are on the side of the prosecution. And so with that, you've got. Some interesting moments from the defense to a lot of the a lot of the people that been called to the stand. But you also have a judge here, and this is what is not really seeped through yet. You've got a judge who is, you know, seeing all sorts of crazy crazy cases, judge Kaplan, he's seventy three years old. He is overseeing, you know, just million tens of millions hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fraud and insider trading and all sorts of stuff. So it isn't Shingo to try and get inside his head and wonder what he thinks about this case. And and while it stands on its own grounds, like he is handled just things of so much greater consequence. But the honorary Lewis Kaplan who sits at the at the front of the court. Here he is admonished. The defense a lot of lot. And while from afar it's, I'm with you parish. In that this case, just it seems like it's on flimsy ground. We've never seen anything like this before. And you know it's on the government to to prove that code ghetto in dockings. In this specific trial were guilty a federal crimes and defrauding the universities. The defense has not called it's witnesses yet and in advance of that you have judge Kaplan sustaining. I would venture ninety percent of the objections made by the prosecution meaning that when the prosecution objects do question the judge as you're correct, that question should not be using, it will not go and transcript won't be used on the record and the witnesses don't even get a chance to respond. And and so what you have here is a defense trying its best to not just paint a picture of the people that the prosecution's called and how they might not be reliable, how the testimony they're giving is not actually affectively helping the government's case. But you have the prosecution objecting to a lot of questions based on into w rules players that could have been paid players that TJ gas Nola co. That were fourteen fifteen sixteen years old that he gave money to those kind of questions are painting a certain scenario situation where the plight of teenagers and college athletes not getting paid. That's what the defense is trying to do. The judge is not allowing it. So from there the question becomes, what is the jury thinking about all this right now? Because if you are a juror and who knows what these people think, I will remind listeners that the jury was selected in part based on their general. I don't give a crap about college athletics. I don't follow it. I couldn't tell you, you know if Duke and and UCLA or in the same conference, I don't know all that kind of stuff. These are people that are not up to snuff on recruiting works, let alone college basketball on the whole. And so if you're a juror like that when you are watching the body language of the prosecutors and how the judges responding to the defense and how the defense lawyers are offering, sometimes meandering questions, things that are taking twenty to twenty five minutes to get to with Bank statements, and they're not really going anywhere if. If you were to judge basically only on that right now, you would say the prosecution is undeniably winning at this point. Now, the defense will have its chance to bring up it's witnesses and also add the witnesses for the defense are not going to be as a lengthy as the prosecution's. Basically the prosecution is hoping to wrap up by Tuesday and the defense thinks that it will be done by next Thursday. So it doesn't have a lot to go with their and from their closing arguments will obviously remain paramount. So before we get into some of the of what the of what guests Nolan bow and senior and perhaps some of the compliance directors, even though they weren't as exciting, but did offer some stuff there. I kind of wanted to lay that out free pair. I, there's not really much you respond to because it's from it's within the courtroom, but I did want to put forth that to you because it is interesting to sit in that courtroom for. I mean, God knows how many hours we do get some breaks here and there, and it's just it's just the defense punching up going up hill consistently. And it doesn't feel like the scoreboard is in their favor. This point. So when you say you feel like the prosecution's winning, do you mean that you think we're headed toward a guilty verdict? I will not say that yet for a couple reasons one because I don't know again how the jurors are taking all this information in which ways they may or may not be leading. But I do think we have to keep in mind that although this case has never been tried, we've not had a case like this before major college athletics where people are Houston, defrauding universities, and all this got to remember the rate in which prosecution successfully winds cases at this level is insanely high. So if you wanna dig your heels in on either side of the argument, I think you've got still a good shot right now at this case. And there is a possibility that when we get to next week in the defense calls, it's witnesses, and it's able to ask its line of questioning, presumably without much objection from the prosecution, and then the tables get turn and the prosecution's got to go after the defense's witnesses who we don't know yet. I don't know who's going to be called, perhaps the judge will be. Similar in tone and message? The prosecution that he's been to with the defense. I don't see that necessarily being the case he is considered a conservative judge as is. So I think that's the one part of this case that we haven't seen disgust yet. That is a very heavy element in the courtroom and it could prove why next week could be pivotal. They also, you know, one of the, the idioms, I guess, of of, you know, major major court cases and just going to trial as jurors have tendency to make their decisions based on how they feel about the attorneys, not necessarily the people on trial or the witnesses or the judges or anything. How how the attorneys handle themselves ask the questions, the questions they ask, how the address the jury that can sometimes have a very influential affect on juries as a whole. And at this point with what I saw on the court this week, I would, I would say that the prosecution is coming out looking better than the defense. One thing. Would point out because somebody pointed out to me, you mentioned that the the feds have conviction rate. That's that's. That's astronomically high. I know you didn't use that word, but it it is. It's above ninety percent. That's what you always hear. If the the feds have a conviction rate above ninety percent, somebody emailed me and said that is technically true, but somewhat misleading because that includes all of the cases where people just they don't even go to try. Okay, win. When you actually go to trial, it's about a coin. Flip situation is what I was told from guilty night guilty perspective. So the feds, if they charge you, they're going to get a conviction against you at a rate above ninety percent because most people realize I'm, I'm eft, there's nothing I can do. We just gotta reach a deal. I can't go to try get no chance of winning. But for the people in rural coach got and Christian doctrines would would fall into this category. For the people who actually say, you know what? We can beat this. We're going to go to trial. Then it becomes like a coin flip situation of whether you were found ultimately found guilty or not guilty. That's at least what I was I was, I was told, I do think that's that's worth pointing out. Ultimately, I, it seems the defense is just going to try to argue these aren't crimes, and whether that will resonate with the jury or not. How could we know it does resonate with me, but I'm somebody who cover college athletics for twenty years. To the people in the jury are. I was talking to somebody the other day. I was like, you have to understand based on what I've read about the the jurors like they might not know who John Calipari. Correct. Like if you like, like if you said, hey. What who do you think's going to be good in college basketball this year, they'd be like, no, I don't know. Hey, who thinks better recruiter might she's just your John Kerry. Who are those people again, where do they coach like these people come to this case from a from a place where it is completely opposite where we come from, like we have an understanding of college basketball in the in the characters involved, and they just don't. And so that that's what makes it so difficult to try to predict how this is resonating with them. But I know how it resonates with me. I. I don't pretend to be illegal mind, but the argument that these are insead violations not broken laws that resonates with me as far as what happens with gadoe code Christian ins guilty, not guilty. Well, we'll see. And one of the points I've made consistently as that. They're the ones on trial. So they matter in that way. But ultimately, what matters to people who would listen to college basketball podcast is like, what happens to the schools involved who gets roped into this? And from that perspective, I would imagine though there's nobody connected to Kansas on trial here and nobody can act to Arizona on trial here. It's not been a good week for Kansas and AirAsia. Would you agree with that? I would agree with that. It has not been a good week for those schools hasn't been a good week for NC state. When you've got a government witness admitting to paying the families and or guardians of five college athletes, one of whom is still active. That is Silvio Susa at Kansas. It's not a good look at something that you have to overcome from public relations standpoint. And frankly, it's something that they none of those schools ever fully will overcome overall. So that is, I think that is a pretty big takeaway from this week parish within the within the details of all that we can. We can get into that and what these witnesses have said. But I think that the damage done under oath under testimony, some of which has already been the evidence of which has already been corroborated others evidence which still needs to be. I do think ultimately, you will see sanctions put on these programs, but as a reminder to listeners, those sanctions will not come into later in my opinion because this trial on its own is its own entity, but. The story. The case also connects the other two trials. And I do not think you'll have a situation which the incidentally I even allowed to do this by the federal government, but to would even want to do this because it wants to see what comes out in the truck person trial. And then the other three assistance whose trial will begin in mid April of twenty nineteen. So you're right. It hasn't been a good week overall. Do you like? I don't really know where to go here. I mean, I can. I can stop here for second on on Kansas and Arizona because they're Phaetons and I haven't even I really tweeted about it, but they're Phaetons. Both schools are like interpreting what's happening in this courtroom way differently than the rest of the country. Like, you know, at Kansas, they're saying, see, TJ guess Nola says, Bill self didn't know, and Kurtis Townsend didn't know and nobody knew, but you've also got TJ saying, you know, in a report I told Bill self were like, we're. Here to help, you know, like. Perhaps he just meant like with, you know, encouragement in in whatever, but like we're here to help coming from TJ gas Nola. Means a certain thing, I think. And then at Zona they're like, okay, the eight and got some money, but it came from a Dita's and we're Nike school and and standing up saying, see, they're still nothing that shows we did anything wrong. And I know there's still nothing that technically in undeniably shows that you did anything wrong, but best I can tell every single person who's caught on a wiretap is saying airs Ona's buying any anybody, hey, Nazeer little zonal pay Brian Bill Ayers, Ono pay. Andrea eight, and they end up with with with with the Andrea Eytan. And by the way, I know that the only money connected eight at this point, it's fifteen thousand dollars that TJ Nola gave lar- nail his buddy, which is the funniest thing in the world to me like just learn just getting fifteen thousand dollars from TJ when de'andre junior in high school. But I mean, so what are we assuming that Adidas gave deandre eight and circle fifteen grin? And then he went to a non school for free. I mean, maybe maybe, but like you wouldn't believe it about anybody else. If if if that's what you believe, if you're Zona fan, you wouldn't believe it if the same story was about UCLA just sort of flies in the face of common sense that he'd get fifteen thousand dollars from Adidas and then go somewhere other than at Adidas school for zero like that. I don't know. I didn't know it would be approve anything but like that doesn't really make sense. And the idea that you know you could be getting Billy Preston, dodge charger, TJ gas Knowle's involved in paying same thing. Desouza involved like really be completely in the dark. Again, it's possible nobody will be able to prove this stuff what somebody did and did not know, but it sure looks certain way. I guess that's my point, certainly. And there was a moment on the stand with guests Nola where he was asked about Nike and Under Armour and the nature of their business as it was similar to what it was doing guests Nola was doing and. I don't have the question in my notes that was asked to him, but the nature of the question was basically getting at, you know, at at certain times, was your opinion, in your opinion of your colleagues in the and what's what's been referred to as the black ops group, which was a handful of this employees that were in the know to varying degrees of paying players in their families. All right. You know, was it your understanding that this was happening at Nike under armor, and this created a competitive environment to recruit players and Gasol obviously replied, yes to that. So it stands to reason that any of the players that have been paid and and have been said under oath to have been paid or their families have. If they wound up another spots, you know, you'd have to be. I'm being generous with my language. You'd have to be completely naive to think. Stop here. I'll ask you the question. Does it make any sense to you? Because here's what we know matter-of-fact has Nola gate the Andre eight and circle of friends specifically Laura now who I love fifteen grand because it make any sense the Andrea eight and then went to a non Adidas school for free, make any not stand to reason perish. It just doesn't make sense. It does not. It doesn't. Okay. And I, I wouldn't be surprised. You and I will be in Florida. So just disclosure for the listeners, I will not be at the trial Monday through Wednesday of next week. Thursday, we'll see goes, but it wouldn't surprise me if if more about eight and came up next week, I think that there is the possibility for that. All right. You wanna get into the gas Nola stuff here. I mean, Boeing seniors got some good stuff. There's even stuff that I didn't tweet about that. I didn't get into my stories. One of which is code and pairs. I'm buried in my notes here. It's code and I think doc ins on a wiretap call and they're discussing the fact that they don't know who one of these guys is in this deal. And the guy is the undercover agent and code is talking about how uncomfortable he is. Man wears this quote, I gotta find it. He's basically saying, I don't know who this guy is. I can't find anything about him on the internet and that you know he's he's dropping curse words in that FM scares me basically. So at a certain point, they. Yeah. Got it right here. Hold on. Let me just read this part here. This is a call in July twenty four, two thousand seventeen between Christian doctrines and moral code. Again, both defendants in this case, they have a meeting on the twenty eighth and twenty ninth upcoming with the undercover officer who obviously they don't know to be the undercover officer. And this is co talking to dock insists as you and I need to protect ourselves. You and I need to get some background info on this guy. And the guy's name is Jeff code. We need to do some real digging. I just don't wanna be in no BS. You need to use extra caution. And then cogos I look up this guy's name and I can't find nothing on them. That s is really, really concerning to me. And then coach starts getting to how he knows some some private investigators that he can get to look into and remember this July twenty fourth. So we are still two months out from the case breaking. This is in the middle of the line. Recruiting period or near the end of it, I should say, and it's it's just damaged or thing. But it didn't really fit into the stories. I was writing code also says I can pay somebody who's got access to like the how the federal government can look people up. I don't. I don't need to see. Effing pictures of him at home or anything, but we can look into this guy. So you already had the defendants in this case and they're being wiretapped unbeknownst to their knowledge at this point. Code at the very least starts to suspect something is up. And the interesting thing about code dock ins guests Nola gadoe whose name is like at the top of the ledger on this trial, but who to this point through a lot of wiretap phone calls and text messages gadoe does not display outright panic or suspicion at things he's not like happily naive and just like he's not doing that. But you get a lot of like gas Nola pissed off that dockings is talking about the one hundred thousand dollar payment to try and follow me here listeners. 'cause I know there's a lot of characters to James, Brad. Augustine. If that name rings a bell, he wasn't AAU coach in Florida who coached Nasiri little will James Brad, Augustine gets wind from Christian doctrines that Brian Bowen's family was paid one hundred thousand dollars to go to Louisville. And now James read, Augustine is trying to build up his own AU program and. In doing that trying to get rich off of selling the seer little potentially to AirAsia or Miami. So James, Brad, Augustine approaches TJ gas Nola at Adidas nations in two thousand seventeen they I believe it's the first time they've ever met. Okay. So he goes up to gas Nolan for those who don't know gas Nola. This is a guy who looks the part. He's at a central casting. We've seen him at these summer events every year since we've been doing this essentially and he's he's like six, four to sixty with the goatee like you. You know, he, he looks the part and just to picture this coach going up to say, listen, man, I know the deal that was set up with Bowen. I think we might. You might be able to get some sort of same accommodation here for little at cetera, et cetera, gas Knowle's thrown because he then goes and talks on a wiretap call and says, this guy knew the deal with Bowen. He knew the number and I sure as held it and tell them any accuses Dawkins correctly. So of running his mouth on this. And so gas Nola starts to get panicked because when you're doing this, obviously, you need to keep the circle of SRI tight and it's caught on Texan. Wiretaps gas Nola saying the only people that know about this me and you referring to dockets, ghetto and code. He also says Kenny Jonsson, but dockings refutes that Kenny Jonsson knows. So that is actually a dangling threat. We don't know really the truth there, whether or not I don't even know what I believe whether he did or did not know guessing testifies that he didn't that Patino didn't know the defenses trying to establish that Patino does. No. But that was an unresolved. Read from Thursday, but eventually, if you step back and look at this, what happens near the final eight weeks of this process is you've got guys running different cons on each other, but not necessarily maliciously you have people wanting to be involved in the payment to players in their families because ultimately down the road, there's a huge stake in that for them if they stay with Adidas sign with certain agents and and I don't know if you want to describe it as kickbacks coming eventually, but obviously there are paid off. So what you had was this black ops group assigned different schools and would because they were assigned to different schools eventually be associated with different kinds of players who would wind up going to one school or the other. But then you've got dockings whose only like twenty four twenty five years old when this is all happening. So he's he's a bit of a young puppies. He's definitely kind of playing the role more than he's actually is fitting into it if that makes any sort of sense. And suddenly you've got a lot of paranoia with all of these guys and and sure enough the paranoia was warranted. -ted because of they, they would be busted. If you're asking why gas Nola is not a defendant in this trial will one. He, he, he cooperated with the government to the evidence against him was not as direct and strong initially as the evidence against the other guys in the trial, guess Knowles on a plane the day. The story breaks when the story breaks the only he testified that the people he reached out to his attorney in Rick Pitino. Now, why would he reach out to Rick Pitino? He said his mind was going crazy. He didn't know what to think. And he basically, I think he was worried that Rick was going to get caught up in this and wanted to make sure that he did not know. But at the same time, he never at least he has not testified to this. If if he if if he did this, the prosecution is not having is not asking this question to set this up. If he ever discussed the legitimacy of bones deal that was never brought up altogether, but what gas Nola and Brian Bowen senior having common is they both get approached by the feds, not on the same day, but guessing all gut. The government came to his house soon thereafter, they both lie to the FBI initially how much I don't know what details. I don't know, but they both lie about the nature of what each of them was doing that was against the rules of the various potentially against federal federal law gas Nolan bow and continued ally until basically they're pinned against the wall and they have no choice. It's like you're, they're gonna cut a deal, or you're going to trial on this in your in. You stand to spend years and years in jail. Okay. So gas Nola. He eventually cuts the deal. Hold on. He cuts his deal in. I gotta go back all the way to start at his testimony. He cuts the deal. He pleads guilty on March thirty two thousand eighteen of this year. So takes that long in between all of that by the way he is having his attorney, write a falsified letter to Kansas to try and help Billy Preston situation. Meanwhile, Preston's mother is involved in an investigation because Preston gets into a minor one car accident with what we now know is a dodge charger that was apparently registered to Preston's great grandmother, which I'm not saying wasn't the case. I'm saying that's an amazing visual that there is a minimum seventy five year old woman driving around. I believe Florida with a dodge charger, incredible. So that that whole process is getting trying to get figured out and then Kansas investigates and they say, okay, now we need to figure out if if you got paid who got money, the gas Nola lands on their radar because gas Knowle's had a long standing relationship with the Kansas coaching. Staff. Okay. And so then Preston's mother again, this is all happening. Well, before gas Nola agrees to sign up with the feds. Precedents mother who has a female companion in life goes to Gasol and says, I'm gonna tell the Kansas investigators. You and I have been intimate. We've been dating. We've been fooling around and that's gonna make the fact that you paid me ninety thousand dollars. Okay. Meanwhile, has a fancy of his own money of which has been. Taken from his account into his fiancee's account as a means to try and hide it. And that's not been brought up in trial. But frankly, you put the pieces together. The government clearly leaned on his fiancee, and that was also what what move gas to become a government witness in this because she had tens and thousands of dollars that was money unaccounted for didn't pay taxes on a legally obtained by gas Nola. That's another part of this. So anyway, that plan falls through Preston, never plays last year. We know the reason now. I mean, we knew it, but now we know it. No, it. The reason Preston ever plays is because his mother and her partner except ninety thousand dollars from gas Nola. Some of which was delivered in hotel rooms in New York City in Las Vegas. Some of which was got wired because quote, gas analysts at he got lazy, he didn't wanna make the trips in person and deliver all of this cash. Eventually the government pins him up against the wall, and and now he's, he's coopering on behalf of them and in doing so has admitted to paying the families of Denison. Junior Preston, current Kansas player, Silvio Susa, Brian Bowen senior and de'andre Aden's family friend, the money of which was supposed to be delivered to Aden's mother. So we don't have any sort of corroboration that the money wasn't factor liver to his mother, but you put the pieces together if you so please parish, I'm gonna toss it back over to you because we can spend seventy four different ways right now TJ guests Nola somebody I've known for like fifteen years because and he is like he looks the part if you were trying to stereotype here. But if you were trying to cast like the shady, grassroots, basketball guy, like he looks, he's the guy, you'd put the movie. And so it's it's sort of interesting how he's the guy who ends up in the situation. But when I was the Memphis beat writer, he was around the Memphis program a lot. You can take that, however, you want to. But he was in Memphis a whole lot because he. Was the connection between the Memphis staff Tonio Anderson who went on to play four years at the university of Memphis. He was on, you know those those great teams that went to. I, you know, the championship game, maybe I think three elite eight and four sweet sixteens championship game appearance. He led the Tigers minutes played every single year. Even though they had Sean Williams. They had Darius Washington. They had Derrick rose. They had tyreek Evans all while he was there until you Anderson led. The team in minutes played every single season. He's a very good college basketball player. And so he has quote unquote guy was TJ. So TJ was in Memphis all the time. And I think he was a high school classmate with dare Kellogg who was on the Memphis staff at the time, then went on to be head coach at UMass now is at LSU, Brooklyn. And so I, you know, my my history with TJ goes goes way back and. I'll just say, I'm not surprised that he got caught up in this kind of stuff. Because he's been the most interesting witness so far because he's talking about money, I delivered deals. I did, and though he has claimed as it relates to Kansas Bill self didn't know canes staff did. No, that's great for for Bill in Curtis towns, all those guys like if if I were to have a, I would also want TJ saying, we didn't know anything about it, but does cashable college basketball fan, believe that like do you believe that. No. And even other stuff, I'll continue here parents, but even others, they're, they're just little drips. Small things coming out in the trial like the fact that the defense asked, you know, before Bill selves hall of fame induction, is it not true that you and your fiancee. Went out to dinner with Bill self, and there was someone else in that and am my ghetto, I believe. And I believe this is the day before the induction. He says, yes, that is true. So it's just little things like that. That the defense is trying to take out of gas, no testimony. Because again, just to remind listeners like when Gasol is being questioned the prosecution, he knows the questions are coming. He self, he's quick. He's direct wins the defense, you see a little more of the imposing figure. His body language is changed. The way that he responds is not as quick. He's asking the defense to repeat questions often. Sometimes he's pausing in my opinion to wait and see if the prosecution will object. It's a fascinating dynamic that plays out continue. The other thing you said that I thought was interesting as I read this when you guys tweeted at you and Dan wets or both been in the courtroom. That on the day the scandal breaks and the indictments are made public. He calls Rick Pitino. And again, I do think it's fair to point out that still to this day, October TWA two thousand eighteen. There is still no evidence whatsoever that Rick Pitino knew anything about this. I mean, you can either believe him or not believe him that's up to you, but like the idea that he's caught on a wiretap or there's some incriminating text message, or there's somebody actually even saying Patino knew that does not exist, so so that's worth pointing out. But why are you calling Rick Pitino if Rick Pitino domino nothing about nothing. I, I will answer the question the reason why he's calling Patino. And again, these are things he sang under oath. Couplings Patino here. I'll answer the question, but I want to bring this up on Tuesday. There was a call between code and dockets. That was also played a separate call where dockings alleges Pacino's and code says he knows what he doesn't know, plausible deniability. So they get into some of that overall. And then guess Noah's been asked a couple of times about, did he let Tino did you not let them know? Because the prosecution is basically saying, you know, by him, not letting Patino and keeping this from Patino and hiding it. He he is defrauding his defrauding, the school, he's in university and get a text message was brought up where it's in my story. It's the first time I've actually bracketed thumbs up emoji. I believe in a in a piece of copy and it's gas Nola saying, listen, you know, hall of Famer. Hope you're well. Bom will help talk soon gives us sums up. And then within context of that being brought into evidence, it's gas saying, I did not tell Patino kept us from him. I didn't want to didn't want him to know because if he knew. You know, Boeing would be eligible for the program at Patino could come under attack. So there's that. That's what he's saying under under oath. He's claimed in in multiple different ways that is the case. But obviously when the when the trial breaks gas Knowle's frantic because he knows that Bowen was pay Bowen's father was paid and their one hundred thousand dollar plan set up with all of this stuff. And I think he is concerned whether or not he believes maybe things Pacino's, but he's never talked with them explicitly about it. He said that so many times that I do, I do believe that's the case, but I think he's trying to get a feel in that moment parish when the stories breaking September twenty six, two thousand seventeen. Okay. You know the the sheath is coming down here. Let me just check in with Rick. See what he says. And Patino indicates really nothing in that moment. So I think that's part of it because another piece of context here is that gas Nola wasn't really involved in the Boeing deal all that much the way that he was the other one. And he even said in court that he was, he wanted to feel like he was a part of it though he wanted to inject himself into. I mentioned before how these guys were kind of running like mini cons on each other or somewhere stepping on one turf over the other. That was the case with gas Nola and Bowen to an extent. And so I think he just had some concern that the, you know, with himself like the two most prominent important coaches to Adidas, I think he might have gotten read in the faces that story was breaking, and that's why he did it. I'll buy that. I'll buy that. You know. With Patino because you know what you said is that. You know, he may have known, but TJ has made it clear. He never talked about it explicitly with him. I was obviously victim media yesterday and the big ten head coach that I was talking with off camera because I was there doing sit down one on one interviews on camera with not every coach, but most of the coaches, everybody from. Matt painter to Mark Turgeon, Tom Izzo, John Beland, arch Miller, Brad Underwood. They sh- it was all being done for CBS sports h. q.. So if you're interested in any of that, and I sat down with Ethan, have Carson Edwards, Anthony cow, and so on and so forth. All of those interviews are over at CBS sports h. q. right now. But off came, I was talking to one big, ten coach, and we weren't talking specifically about. Patino and the guy that I think we were actually talking about Kansas in the guys. But the point he made is that. These guys can honestly under oath say, I never told Rick Pitino this right? Never told Bill self that because you wouldn't. You wouldn't talk about it because the coaches don't want to hear it. The coaches want you to do what you're doing, but they don't wanna hear it because they want to still be able to. Yeah, have plausible deniability. But even more than that, they wanna be able to on some level look themselves in the mirror and not see themselves as cheater. So when TJ guests Nola tells you, hey, I, I'm gonna help you with this or let me work on that. You know what that means. But but nothing further is said because nothing further needs to be said. And so it is why I find TJ believable when he says, I didn't tell Bill self or I didn't tell Rick Pitino. But I don't think that necessarily means to Kansas step didn't know or the Louisville staff didn't know if that makes sense. It does make sense, and it's part of the guy said was like he actually said, if if if one of my shoe company guys was out there working for me and it was a character TJ gas, no. If he's saying, hey, listen, coach, this five star kid, he's on the market. I know you're involved. I'm gonna help you with that. Like, you know, Adidas is here to help. I'm gonna I'm, I've got a relationship with the family, and so just let me work on that and see if I can see what I can get done. The guys that I would. I know how I turf it, that I, it is they're going to get. They're going to get down and go out there and try to get this dome for me in whatever way they need to do it. I don't need to know. But I know I know my guys out there working for me and you know what that means. It doesn't mean like I'm just going to send a text message and see if I can get you an official visit. It means I'm gonna get their work for you and try to get this done. And so I think these things can be true that nobody ever told Bill self. This is what we are doing. Sylvia desouza. This is what we're doing for Billy Preston. And then nobody ever told Rick Pitino what we're doing from Brian boa. But that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't know what was going on. They might not have known the six because they didn't need to know didn't wanna know. But. It's hard to believe. For me, at least. And I think for most people, it's hard to believe that you wouldn't have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Given how long you've been in the business of high level recruiting and yes and gas, Nola himself, you know, he, he, he passed bad checks and committed larceny and fraud in his twenties. Evaded doing taxes. He is being painted as not a flattering character here. And with that as a fact, you know, just think about how many people in your own life you would. You would trust even an informal business capacity like that. I mean, this is just, this is what the sport is a certain extent. It just is okay and to anyone who schools haven't been affected by if you root for a school that is considered a top fifty variety at minimum. Just understand that that this has been happening in many cases, not all, but in many cases, obviously for decades, we're not hitting on on new ground there. If I may parish, let me just real quick. We talk on the press and stuff mostly I won't. I won't do much in that, but I just want to real quick. And on the other four players Castano testified to to paying their families. Bowen junior, it's a whole long, sordid affair. You know, it starts when he's on a team at fifteen years old. In fact, immoral coats, senior who was a judge in South Carolina is also defending his son. In this case, when after Bo and senior early in the week and incredible five minutes of of cross examination. I mean, this was not long. It was in fact it was amazing. When you look at the way all of the other defense lawyers, prosecution lawyers are preparing their questions, what they're going up there with just binders. Two feet deep. It feels like I'm bores l. and I were talking. We're convinced that the legal community alone will ensure that paper companies exist ad infinitum de amount of paperwork that is involved in this case is suffocating. And yet here you have Merle coach senior with like four loose leaf pieces of paper, bang, bang, bang, quick questions, and he is it true that because of your son's talent you picked him out since he was fifteen objection cer- incredible. There was. Allured accusation about Boeing senior being in New York and looking to find some companionship that I won't get into too much, but that was by far. No. Let's get into that for sure. What was he? What was he trying to get involved in? It was not related to the case whatsoever. Basically, what was happening with this was you've got code senior, obviously furious and his sons in the situation began with and you've got Boeing senior who is in part responsible. You can't call them completely culpable because he's not. But impart the reason why co juniors is involved here and so as but no means other than to toss out a memorable quote that the jury Shirley will have ringing in their ears and just to further diminish the character, Brian Bowen senior Marocco senior said, you know, is it or is it not true that when you landed in New York, you reached out to. Think it was dock ins, but I don't know for sure. I pretty sure it was dockings and texted, you know. Excellent, excellent. I need to get some. And so. When that happens. I mean the objection. It was out of a TV courtroom scene. The immediate objection, the immediate heavy-handed sustained from judge Kaplan. Code senior being up there, understanding knowing what was fully coming. It was. It wasn't incredible moment and we'll have no. No impact on. On the on the on the remainder of the questioning going forward. But anyway, Astra, Boeing. So his family is looking to get money to have otherwise they're gonna leave. It needs to go play for different Nike team. Chris rivers is on on trial in this case, but as an Adidas, grassroots executive that you and I both know in fact who was heavily involved when the lamelo ball crap happened in Vegas in twenty seventeen in the law. Lavar ball going after the female official and all that stuff. One of the guys that we reveal with a lot or at least I was was Chris rivers because he was the basically, the guy that was overseeing that massive, Adidas gauntlet tournament that's happening in Las Vegas will rivers has been brought into this trial one because he was kind of heading up a lot of these guys, you know, gas Nola, and code and other people on a Dita's black ups thing. And he even writes an Email one point that says, hey, listen, don't put any of the black Steph ops in on paper, but he's doing this on an Email. He's doing this on paper. What are you doing anyway? Rivers is involved not as much as the other characters early on with Boeing, Bo in the second or Boeing, junior, I guess it's the second I've heard it referred to both, but that's beside the point. So money gets delivered their Bowen senior. Testifies that rivers delivers like eighteen thousand dollars at one point when they're getting twenty five thousand and this this whole pattern continues obviously, is bones. Recruitment goes on. I don't wanna just burrow hole after hole after hole, but then you get into all it to Paul stuff, which is frankly, just doesn't look good. The Creighton stuff doesn't look good at all, and then gas Nola just he becomes sort of a a periphery on that. And then he gets concerned because docking starts running his mouth about Boeing, getting hundred thousand dollars to go to Louisville and all that stuff. He was the least interesting one is pertained to Gasol is testimony. Overall. I'm gonna save Susa for last because he is. He is the active player that's still involved in this as for Eytan. The context around Aden, and I think that there he still could come up next week. Frankly, I think he and Shawn Miller could come up. We wait and see if Shawn Miller being on the phone on wiretap gets played in this trial or not. To me, that's arguably the biggest, will it happen or will it not remaining in in this specific case or not? Because that is doc. Ins talking to him and dockings is on trial here. It would not stand a reason that that call would get played at the next trial or the one after that with eight Gasol testifies, obviously identified as an elite talent at a young age wanting to get in with Eytan, wanting to get eight and to Kansas. Okay. And Gastineau testifies that this is only one of the really new things. I think notable things to come out in the afternoon session on Thursday, which was largely kind of boring, and the defense was just stumbling over questions and not getting anywhere. But guess Nola did testify the attempted to get permanent housing and set up a job for aids mother in Kansas in an effort to get eight and to Kansas gas also tested. Fide around that time on Thursday that he felt he let Bill self down by failing to get eight and to Kansas think those are relevant pieces of information. What we don't know is the other half of the coin. In terms of eight and getting to Zona, but fifteen thousand dollars was delivered when Ayton was a junior in high school to again, Larne l. shout out to Larne l. okay, schaus to learn without a doubt shouts to Larne shouts to learn l. who then was believed to be giving it to Aden's mother that did not gain traction. Defense was not allowed to really get into why didn't gain traction objections based on relevance, hearsay, what have you, but there you have it. I think eight n- is still open ended at this point. All right, Dennis juniors to fourth player. Now he gets to payments. And as I said in the last podcast, this was this was just one of those things that when Dennis I remember watching Dennis Smith junior in Las Vegas at Adidas, and just the general feeling was like Dennis issues getting paid to state. Everyone knows it, but as journalists, we cannot we cannot corroborate this information to publish. But this was one of the bigger ones at the past five, six years in my opinion. Well, now we know obviously, this is the case, so he gets to different payments wants when he's a junior in high school. The second payment comes after he is committed. But before he enrolls, he enrolls in January twenty sixteen the payment comes. In November of twenty fifteen. And the reason it comes in part as we now learn and they're still going to be more with this. I think next week because the defense is trying to show that the money didn't come from deepest. It came from a money guy named Martin FOX who's out of Houston. And I was told by a source that a lot of players that have come out a few Ston good batter otherwise have have come across FOX. And he has been just a figure of varying influence in the lives of pro prospects out of Houston in the past, you know, seven to ten years or whatever. So the defense is trying to say, listen, this money that went to Smith in fact, might not have been Dita's. It might. It might have actually come from him. We'll see where they're going with that with that overall. But anyway, the point is were circles back to gas Nola in the guys that ghetto that there is some some needing to quote, calm the situation about Dennis Smith junior and everything at NC state. And so they figure, okay. Well, forty thousand dollars, you know, that should that should probably be able to do it gas Nola testified that he went to former NC state assistant Orlando early who for the record. I've tried to reach for content comment and has not responded. About all of this. They asked gas Nola. What early said when he discussed this in his quote was I don't recall and then the quotas. But he didn't say no. And the tone of gas Nola when he said that particular sentence really landed heavy for me. So. What happens here is gas gets on a plane with forty thousand dollars, and that's another thing like earlier in the trial pairs. One thing links to another like you had Boeing senior trying to figure out like if you needed to drive halfway across the country with cash, or could he sneak twenty thousand dollars onto a plane. If he was going to do it, how he was going to do it like so much of this stuff man is is wild in the moment, and we're writing furiously because I can't bring my phone. I can't bring a recorder in. So everything that's said like just furiously writing on a notepad. And if you read any quotes in my story or hear him here, there are a hundred percent accurate. There's a lot of quotes I wrote, but if I'm listening to it on a wiretap call or saying testimony and I don't have it all, I don't have the confidence and frankly will not go with it if I don't have the quote. Exactly, right. So you've got castes Nola flying out of Hartford into Raleigh. I classes always. He would stay in the nicest hotels. He'd he records huge expenses that we get repaid by Jesus in this consultant role, and he. Goes to Orlando's earliest house earliest there. He gives the forty thousand dollars with the inter standing that early going to deliver the forty thousand dollars to to a trainer of Dennis Smith juniors. And from there you know, it's done, whatever's done is done. There was no testimony that this is really a material, but there's no testimony that the family dentist union was ever paid once he was on campus and a student for a year and a half and see state. But regardless, it's terrible look for NC state in this regard. That's the only only instance here. With gas Nola that an assistant not only had knowledge, but actually helped transact money. He moved it from one person to the next against the rules. The only other thing we have that for sure is Johnson give given Brian bow and senior thirteen hundred dollars outside of seniors apartment in Louisville in September of twenty seventeen. And even then Kenny Johnson says, this is going to be a one time deal. This of course happens like six Africa, any Johnson claims? Well, they meet a gas station that he didn't even really know that he was supposed to be paying to begin with. That's another deal altogether, but that's not a good look for NC state. Obviously not a good look for early or Mark Godfrey who is now the coach at Cal State Northridge and that school is yet to put out a statement, I believe in relation to what happened here. And last we have Silvio to Susa, obviously still at Kansas eligible at Kansas couple things here with him, you had a Kansas compliance director that was brought in. Got into some some stuff here and there that at this point just doesn't feel to relevant like, but the fact that Kansas didn't complete proper paperwork with Billy Preston on official visits and stuff. It's not a, it's not a good look for Kansas at all or the prosecution, but okay, Susa. He's eligible right now. The compliance director said that end. That is my understanding. Now here's why it is in part to Sa's guardian NFL main gets paid twenty five hundred dollars to help pay for night classes for Silvio Susa prior to getting to Kansas and what I would suspect to be necessary classes in order for him to clear admissions to Kansas and or the instable is standards for division one student athlete. So he gets twenty five hundred dollars at this point. As gas is testifying. There's a booster at Maryland paint sixty thousand dollars to foul main, and there then becomes a battle over, okay, you know, do we wanna get disuse off of Under Armour and to Adidas and Kansas in? Are we going to we're to mass that sixty thousand so this they set up a payment plan for I for twenty thousand. And the only reason why Silvio Seuss's guardian NFL main did not receive twenty thousand dollars gas Knowle's own words were because of this investigation because the story breaks when it breaks everything halts. Okay. So if you're Kansas fan and your final four never gets vacated and Silvio Susa averages fourteen and seven this year and helps you to another one seed and never winds up having an issue with his eligibility. Be thankful that this case happened to begin with now maybe nothing gets ever at all, but that's why his eligibility is still out there right now. It is pretty interesting and they can. Indus remains pretty adamant that he is that he is going to be eligible. But I, I do believe that he'll be eligible if only because the NCAA's probably not going to roll on him, right. You can't play him. Can Kenya you have to hold him out, I guess. So because here's the other thing, you can still punish schools. I don't know if there's going to be the case though, because it was supposedly knowing that the school involved in this for intent. The answer. The answer. And if you're amateur status compromised, your amateur status is compromise. Yeah, I agree. Like, here's what I think. I think it would be insane for Kansas to play him and they could. They could be on track to win a national championship this season. You don't want to have to look back because you played somebody who it was alleged in federal court has amateur status compromise just because instantly hasn't ruled on it yet. Oh, we'll, we'll just play them and hope for the best I would again, I'll let their compliance people make that decision. They, they know the ins and outs this more than you and I, but I'll be surprised if he's in uniform at the champions class. I also we have to bring this up. Okay. Silvio guardian is Bruno Fernando's guardian Brito. Fernando plays at Maryland. Okay. So if you're Maryland and athlete department that's already faced serious, heavy, legitimate fire this year. For what happened with the football player who was killed after the workout. Like, I'm sure Maryland has has done. The investigations feels necessary that it needs to have been done, but you have new information under oath coming out publicly disclosed that the guardian was accepting. Why would he do one and not the other? You have to ask that question. If you're Maryland, you have to be satisfied. You have to clear this just. Just to me that is very vulnerable for the Terrapins right now. So this is this is how there can be. Unintended consequences for other schools that aren't directly on trial here, but once who have been implicated overall. And I still think next week is going to bring more information like it didn't stop because you know this week was done, I guess, still on the stand. I still think we can get more and we don't know who they're going to wrap up with all the witnesses gas, the last witness for the prosecution. They still more to come. And by the way, just real quick for any future, guardians of elite basketball prospects. If you take sixty thousand dollars from a booster and decide you wanna go to a different school, you don't have to pay it back. There's really anything they can do like, what are they going to do incriminate themselves? Exactly. What do you do? What amateur hour? Like dude. Okay, you got your sixty thousand dollars. Now this go. Do what you wanna do? What are they going to call the civil on themselves? Chalking up. People do that all the time. Like I've heard about players taking money from agents and then just going with another agent and it's like, what are you? Gonna? Do you gonna go? You're going to tell the instability that you were paying me while I was a student athlete, you're gonna go like, go tell the unified, a lawsuit against me and admit that you were breaking major incidentally, rules ball, pay me just chock it up as loss. So. Sylvia brutal Fernando's guardian. He didn't seem to have a good grasp on how to go about doing this stuff like honestly, like you should be a certain code involve. If you're gonna take sixty grand from somebody. You need to go to the school probably where you took sixty grand from. But if you do decide to go somewhere else, you ain't got to pay it back up, bet you never going to pay it back. Double dipping. Course, why wouldn't you man. Let me let me be the guardian of somebody. I wanna be somebody's guardian. I wanna be Larne hill. I have. I have to add before we wrap up. This is just one more thing is junior, it's it's just it was just a funny moment like BoyZone I looked each other when this happened, so they showed this text. So Dennis Smith, Adidas spends all this money all this time trying to get Dennis Smith junior, right plays at NC state, fantastic, freshman, they missed the tournament Godfrey. It's fired. Dennis Smith junior, declares distracted, lottery pick, and he goes with Under Armour so that didn't go to plan. And shortly there now NC states, it's probably vacate that dunk. He and Camry they have to vacate the dunk, correct hashtag vacant dunk. There's no doubt about the talk without a doubt. So there's a text message. I, I don't know why the struck us so funny, but there's a text message between guests Nola and ghetto. About Dennis Smith junior, their disrespect is out of control. It's gas Miller saying, you know, the disrespect is out of control with Dennis. I can't believe this. You just ticked off that he didn't stick with the dias and that Tex sent at four thirty at four thirty. One gadoe just simply replies, Jaylen Brown, had a good game last night. I was just, I don't know. It was. It was so funny that context in which that up and and I don't know who Jalen Brown assigned to by the way Nike for all I know. I don't know, but, but it was just it was funny because gas only just ticked off on belief in it's almost just like Gada just he notes. It's just too far gone anyway, like we just gotta move on. Let me ask you this. Do we have theory for why? Brian? VO and seniors trying to protect Oregon, Tony Stubblefield because that was bizarre. Yeah, like so the allegation is that Tony Stubblefield at Oregon gave him three grand, and this was like, gave him three grand, not forty years ago, but like literally in last year. And he says, I don't recall. And again, I was talking to a big ten coach yesterday. This is a yes or no way. It's impossible to not recall whether Pac twelve assistant gave you three thousand dollars cash. The answer is either. Yes, he did or no, he didn't, but that's not the, I don't recall thing like, hey, what did you eat for lunch on October fourth, two thousand fifteen. I don't recall sense. Did a cystic coach at Oregon give you three grand cash? I don't recall. What are you talking about? You don't recall. That's like yes or no. And so the answer is clearly, yes. Like I'm just gonna -ssume that that happened. And so why, why? Why try to protect Oregon, Tony Stubblefield. What is the what? What would be the motivation there. Could not even imagine. I can't imagine parish, you're under oath cut a deal with the government. I can't imagine. And by the way, just for context here that question gets brought up by the defence. It gets brought up by doc and his lawyer. He brings in Tony Stubblefield the lawyer. He brings in the three thousand dollar figure the lawyer does, and then he says, he doesn't recall. There was also a separate question about UCLA. That was not a specific that Bowen senior also said he couldn't recall, but we're talking about a guy who had a bat phone. He referred to it as a bad phone. You talked to Christian doctrines on his bat phone, and if you're if you're someone who has a bat phone and yet at the same time, can't recall certain money deals. It's just a little bit shady. All right. Last thing before we get out of here. Obviously the trial. Continues on Monday. They were not in the courtroom today, which is Friday. What do we expect next week and wind? Are we ultimately going to know if these men are guilty or not guilty as timeframe on it? Okay. So next week, the prosecution will wrap with its witnesses, at least it should barring. Extended testimony. I really don't think that'll happen with and all he should be done by Monday. They'll bring in two more witnesses. They're planning and then the defense will get their shot. I don't know how many and who they're bringing in as of Wednesday morning win. The lawyers talked to the judge and this is when the jury's not the room and there are no witnesses in the room. The plan was for them to be putting the case in the jury's hands, the week of October twenty second meaning. At least I took that to mean that by Thursday, October eighteen or Thursday October eighteenth because there's no trial on Friday's, closing arguments would be done. So best case scenario. I think you have closing arguments on starting Wednesday, finishing Thursday are all done on Thursday. There is the possibility that closing arguments going to the Monday, October twenty second Tuesday, October twenty. Third, I have no feel on how long it will take the jury. URI to be out on this and to make a decision. But the judge did say, it doesn't look like that they're going to have to go into November with this, but that was before gas Knowle's testimony started taking much longer than they expected. I think he is delay the trial at least one day from what it was expected as of Wednesday morning. But that's, I think we're going to be wrapped up by Tober. And when we do our next podcast, I think we'll have new information that we will be discussing. And we can obviously also if if we so pleased, and I certainly would like to start tapping into some preseason chatter and stuff that's happening on the court shouts to Devon, chef just Carolina, Terry particular show to lar- now and remember you can subscribe to the college basketball podcast via apple podcast rated favourably five dollars five stars then also type a nice comment or two or whatever. That's all we ask from. We're going to be here again next week till then take care.

TJ Nola Nola Kansas Basketball Adidas Brian Bowen Rick Pitino Brian Bill Ayers Gasol Boeing Nola Patino attorney Billy Preston Florida TJ gas Nola federal government Lewis Kaplan Memphis
The Dismissal of Kamala Harris

Slate's The Gist

25:06 min | 1 year ago

The Dismissal of Kamala Harris

"Hi, I'm Mike Pasco. We have quite a show for you today. It's called the gist. Perhaps you've heard about it. And it's sponsored by such companies as this one for thirty four years. Samuel Adams has made their Boston lager. Inefficiently the other guys expensive imports. Their industrial beer is made as efficiently as possible. Most Jews cheap bitterest, hops and faster, fermentation, whatever it takes to drive down costs Sam Adams brews with one hundred percent heirloom middle Fru, hops and lagers it's beer for over a month glorious inefficiency in every sip Sam Adams by the Boston beer company. Boston, Massachusetts savor the flavor. Responsibly. The following recording may contain explicit language. I can't get more explicit than may let you say it may. It's Wednesday January twenty thousand nine hundred thousand sleet, it's the gist might Pasqua here's a line from an axios report that I would like to discuss what does it mean? Hold on axios freaks. We'll get to that. It was about who Trump can tick off. And who he can't if he is to make any deal with Democrats and axios quotes, an unnamed Senator as saying Trump can withstand and Coulter he can't lose Hannity and the rest because once LBJ lost Cronkite. He knew he had lost America. Once Trump loss to Ann Coulter. He lost to cleverness and a bunch of Twitter feeds with eagles and flags in the user's name, I guess if you lose Hannity and the rest wa-, boy, here's the thing. It is impossible to lose Hannity because Hannity's beliefs are what Donald Trump says Hannity is rather dim bulb. Who knows how to be the face of a network that is literally set up to enable whatever Donald Trump says and culture on the other hand while odious and not a fan of folks, any shade darker than Ricardo Montalban is a little smarter than Hannity, and she does have a spine. But here's. The true folly of wanting to satisfy a constituency of pundits. It's other. They have bad ideas. Even though they do a, bad ideas. It's that their agenda is to use provocation and to tap into a well of resentment not to advance policy, but rather to outrage viewers in order to get more viewers ratings and advertising dollars. There is a fundamental difference between Ann Coulter and say Grover Norquist or the Heritage Foundation. Those activists are active so they could bring about policies that they favor their divisiveness their falsehoods. Their incendiary statements are all ends to crafting in America that you and I wouldn't enjoy but that's their game. I mean, they want their own people on top. They want themselves to be personally richer, and they're using the things they say to get there. But Ann Coulter is different. She just one. People to be upset. There is no destination that would satisfy her her game is to be a peddler of outrage. That's the business model. She gets say horrible things that people some people want to hear and she sells books based on that. She's not using the tools of propaganda for anything. Then furthering her own propaganda. It's not the I've actual beliefs hateful though. They may be it's that her point on earth is not to see that her idea wins. It's to see that her idea cells, and you can't give an culture a win. You can only give her fodder on the show today. I should feel about a few things I find unfair with the general dismissal of the Kamala Harris candidacy on the show today. I should feel about a few things I'm finding unfair about the general dismissal of the Kamala Harris candidacy, but I the story of a Greek basketball coach what you're not a huge booster of Panathinaikos. Well. Me neither. But I am interested in the coach Rick Pitino. Our conversation here today occurs. His last stomping ground before America. Essentially spit him out Patino is a great coach a compelling character and bit of a scoundrel, for instance, just a few weeks ago. A federal jury found that an assistant coach of his from the Louisville days committed fraud by bribing amateur players Patino as always scape sanction reporter, Michael Sokolow this here to tell the town. Support for this podcast. And the following message comes from slack the collaboration hub for work. No matter. What work? You do. Teamwork on slack happens in channels where your information in conversations are organized around projects offices in teams, and because everything you need to work his in one place. It's faster and easier to get things done designed to support the way people like you naturally worked together slack makes collaborating with your colleagues online as easy inefficient is face to face. The more slack is used across the company. The more value it provides as tools and information shared by one department become accessible across departments helping teams work together across locations time zones or job titles with slack. The right people in your team are kept in the loop. And the information they need is always at their fingertips. Learn more at slack dot com. What do you think the most valuable college basketball program is if if you were to think Kentucky, right? It's religion down there, Indiana, Bobby Knight who got away with things that would make a clergyman blush. Maybe some place like Duke or UCLA with all their championships. No, no, no, no. The answer is the university of Louisville Louisville. Why louisville? Well, they've had a good basketball team for a long time. And the state does love it's basketball. But in two words, Rick Pitino. He is the subject of the new book. The last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. It's written by Michael Sokolow. Hello, michael. Thanks for joining me, low great to be here. So I did I did st- site the name on the cover. Rick Pitino sells books, but there is another man here who's really important, and that's the athletic director of Louisville. Why don't you tell me about him? Well, Tom jerk proceeded Petit. Yeah. No at Louisville. He he was there for about twenty years. And he is an absolute visionary. You know, he was an athletic director at work a couple of smaller places. He had been an NFL placekicker. He played one game for the New Orleans Saints. He missed three place kicks two of them. Chip shots. And that was the end of his NFL career. But it became an administrator he came to Louisville after two other jobs and Louisville was just a non factor athletically, academically, and he sent some potential there. And maybe must importantly, he sensed a hunger in Louisville's moneyed class for a big time sports program and a willingness on their part to pay for it. And he did remarkable things down there, you know, based on his own vision and certainly powered by Patino as well. Okay. So let's so we haven't talked about Patino, and you know, I was a sports reporter for almost ten years. I loved Rick Pitino as a sports reporter. He gave you great quotes. He not. Only had an extroverted magnetism which could college coaches do because they got to get in there and recruit he really was a genius coach. So having a stylish at Rick Pitino was this great coach with national championships who actually belongs in the hall of fame as a coach. Why don't you tell me what he brought to Louisville that ties into corruption scandal and big business? Well, the first thing is as a coach, you're absolutely right. You know, what he brought was this air of New York with him. You know, he's a creature of the night. And that was well known a former trustee at university of Louisville referred to as Sinatra like posse and people love that, you know, there was a little bit of glitz the little bit of style, and you know, all to the good until these scandals and this stench of not one not two but three scandals fell over him. Yeah. And you know, his last guy to figure out that he was done. So three scandals. Let's lay them out. What's what's the first one scandal on is this incredibly tall? Dri incident in porcinis a restaurant at talian restaurant in Louisville where the restaurant closes for the night. But even before it closes all Pacino's friends start melting away. You know goodbye coach by coach because his hang out with a woman named Karen cypher at the bar as it later comes out and court they have sex briefly in a restaurant close restaurant or Bank yet now. Extramarital sex is part of the human condition. But she goes ahead and tries to extort him at a certain point. It's just sort of tawdry and awful, and it's awful for him. It's awful for his family. He apologizes, and you know, that's scandal. Number one, right? Okay. Let's move to scandal. Number two, also sexual. Scandal. Number two is what's known in Louisville S stripper gate, and this is a series of party's not over one or two or three but a series of parties over four years in the basketball dorm, sponsored by one of his staff members is pretty much as chief of staff and a former player of his and the the other host of this these parties a woman in Katina pal and she's a local escort, and these are essentially stripping and sex parties for the benefit of recruits who come onto campus to play for Rick Pitino at a possibly play Patino and some of his then current players Patino said oh my goodness. For years of these parties in the basketball dorm, no one ever told me, you know, that's terrible. But how could I have possibly known about it so scandal one is sexual about Rick scandal to is sexual, but it's about recruitment scandal three is not sexual. But it's also. About recruitment. Tell me about scandal. Three well scandals Ray is the wide ranging FBI Justice department investigation of college basketball, recruiting which broke just about a year ago now and a central thread in that case is the recruitment of Brian Bowen junior who's known as tugs, according to the tapes Cording to the FBI it is not really countered by anyone. His father took some money for Brian Bowen junior to play at Louisville. One of Tinos assistant coach is one of his young assistant coaches is on tape in a hotel room in Las Vegas meeting with one of the characters one of the defendants in this and other assistant coach seems to have altered some paperwork about a street agent who came with a bow and family to visit campus A street agent being a go between on the recruiting circuit. So what you have is this again catastrophic. Recruiting situation is the only time that kind of thing is happened in the NCWA. No. But it falls on Patino that one of the kids who's coming to his school. His father seems to have been paid. You know, we can talk about his response. But basically, it's the same thing. How could I possibly have known? I told people to do the right thing. They didn't do the right thing. So basically, it's on them. It's not on me. I also think that Manafort wasn't prosecuted because of prosecutorial discretion. And it's not as if three years ago, the couldn't have put the case together. There are just some cases that prosecutors deem worth charging in some cases, they don't once you marry the facts and establish the facts, and Mary that two charges on the books, which would be what what's essentially are we talking about a denial of honest services case, or is there some other Rico statutes that are being violated. Well, the charges are basically bribery, mail fraud and conspiracy, right? So those are those are against the law. They're going to try to they're to try to marry it to these people. But I I guess I have the bigger question which is and so what? And so. So in this one case, they get a conviction. Well, that cleanup college basketball without even make a one percent denting cleaning up college sports will it might make a one percent dent. It certainly not going to clean it up. The problem with college basketball is the billions and billions of dollars coursing through it. And the fact that virtually none of it goes to the players one of the one of the things that I point out in the book is that the money that is said to have come to tugs, his father, Brian bones. Father was nineteen thousand five hundred dollars that is one quarter of one percent of Rick Pitino's annual salary. I mean that breeds huge cynicism. You've got, you know, people on the, you know, families on the grassroots circuit, they're savvy. They're smart, they get it. And they're basically like, you know, what if all that money is out there? I'm gonna take some of it. And and they do you know if that equation can be changed and they start either paying player. Or dial the whole thing down in terms of how big it is. Which is unlikely that you know, that that is what would clean up college basketball, or maybe clean it up. Yeah. So this brings me back to our original AD character time jerk. He got fired. I mean, he was fighting with the school and eventually he was released for cause. But got a huge payout. Right. Correct. Yes. He did. Yeah. Does the fault lie with there's this old expression? You know, don't hate the player hate the game. I think that Rick Pitino is. Well, he seemed like he was playing the game. Very well until he wasn't maybe the bigger finger should be pointed at, you know, a guy like jerk who didn't have to take Louisville to the number one program didn't have to sign a lease deal with the yum center that almost brought it to bankruptcy. There was an opportunity and he took it. But he seems more of the malefactor in the global sense than even Patino does. I guess I'm going to disagree with you some there I hear what you're saying. But you know, it's important to know about the personality of these two guys jerk is not a sophisticated guy. You know, he's a sports Centric. He sees everything through a sports prism and in his mind his job and his only job was to make sports bigger. You know, more money, more facilities more wins everything. And he did it. And that is is what he was charged with doing as he saw it. Nope. Patino is an urban guy. You can talk them about wine. You can talk about politics can certainly talk about horses. You can talk about to him about criminal Justice. He knows better. So he now is suing Louisville for thirty five million dollars in back pay. I mean, that's obscene number one. And it's also really cynical because he's playing off whatever sympathy he has left there. Whatever memories. Of of the great times and yum center to just rake in more money. So I you know jerk. Other jerk doesn't see the world. And quite as rounded ways as Patino does jokes. Just like, hey, man, you gave me a job to do. And I did it. What's the problem? And we can see the problems. I don't think that he honestly did he didn't know any you know, he was a bulldozer just forward forward forward. And did a great job in that regard. Tell me the one strand. I think I left on explored. It's tugs Bowen, he can't play college basketball. He couldn't even try to go to South Carolina. And they wouldn't let him is. He gonna get a shot to play in the NBA. You know, he's to me. He's the the tragedy of the story, and we didn't go all the way through it. But just briefly there has to be a victim in a federal case of conspiracy, or you know, any of these charges and the victim, according to the government is the universities, which is almost laughable, and they are. Are the victims of this alleged crime because they may receive ineligible players and then not get their TV money. But the victim in my mind is these players when you listen to the tapes when you when you look look at what went on. They were being traded and played against each other by these defendants, that's what's alleged money was big exchange, in many cases, they didn't know about it. So they got Brian Bowen junior who pretty good player, but he's a six seven wing guy. He's a good shooter. He's sort of good at everything. So he's a guy who maybe had a fifty fifty chance of having a significant NBA career. But that's the way to get in the NBA still to play college basketball, particularly to be coached by somebody like, Tino, he wasn't a one and done. It might have been a two and done. I was told now he's over in Australia. That's one of ten or twelve significant leagues around the world that but it's not the NBA. He's one of a thousand plus players hoping for a chance in the NBA. So it's going to be harder for him. I've met the cat have been around him. I I like him. He's a sweet kid. I I hope it works out for him Michael sock. Love is the author of the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal in the big business of college basketball. Thanks so much. Thank you. It was really enjoyed being with you. Now, the spiel some things that annoy me about the dismissal of Kamla Harris. First of all, come LA Harris seems fine to me. Would I vote for? I don't know. Maybe she's no Amy klobuchar Mahan how let me that Amy kluber char she and Sheldon Whitehouse are just the best members of the Senate Judiciary committee. Don't you think? I mean Harris's on it. She's okay. She doesn't really get to the nub of things like Amy klobuchar. But look not everyone can be Amy clue HR a smart former prosecutor who is a female Senator running for president weight that describes Kamala Harris too. But in the day within an hour of her announcing I found out there was a right wing smear campaign to allege she is ineligible to be president. Because it doesn't matter. Some bullshit reasons my truck with this story is not just the obvious discredited troll who is propagating this story. But the members of the media who are spreading it. They're using their credibility to point to this troll, saying don't. Believe this troll this troll. His name is Jacob troll of changes. Last name has tweeted out. Come Harris is not eligible to be president her father arrive from Jamaica nine hundred sixty one or mother from India nineteen bad bound, true untrue untrue. But Djamil hill, formerly of ESPN with her one point one million followers tweeted out. I can't believe this guy rather than not believing this guy. Just don't give them air. This fellow's Wikipedia entry is Jacob troll. Not as real name born December twelfth nineteen ninety seven. So he just turned twenty one Jacob patrol is barred for life from futures trading due to defrauding investors in two thousand sixteen by posing as a hedge fund manager and real estate investor troll. Not his real name is an American right wing fraudster conspiracy theorist online blogger internet troll. Oh, I guess it's a promise then. And he's a former columnist for the gateway pundit. It also notes the troll drew national attention in two thousand eighteen after news outlets reported his. In a failed plot to discredit Robert Muller by framing him for sexual misconduct. Great trolls troll. You just dunked on should fantastic. Hey, remember, the last time we had a laugh about someone who's alleging person didn't have the right birth circumstances to run for president that man's name was Ted Cruz. But the guy doing the alleging was Donald Trump who you might know as a right wing fraudster barred from running a charitable foundation due to lax oversight as he posed as a real estate investor 'nother thing that annoys me about the coverage of Kamala Harris that she's too tough on crime. Here's a headline from the intercept a problem for comma Harris can a prosecutor become president in the age of black lives matter. So here's the case as attorney general of California, she criminalized truancy she's overlooked misconduct of prosecutors and fought to uphold their wrongfully secured convictions. She defended California's choice to deny gender reassignment surgery to a transgender inmate. And in two thousand fourteen she appealed a federal judges holding that the death penalty was unconstitutional the list goes on and on. But in some ways, the details don't matter to quote, the intercept yet, they do to quote me, the transgender surgery issue, for instance. Well, the executive director of one of the largest LGBT groups in the state of California guy name Rick is Bir says that Harris was pretty constrained in what she could do in her office as state attorney general Bir gives her high marks today the Lambda legal defense fund isn't quite so forgiving of her time in office. But it does say they do say that when Harris became personally involved with the trans surgery case, she comported much more with what they consider to be best practices. They like Kamala Harris very much. I mean, a state attorney general she had a staff of one thousand people shouldn't know about the case until she learned about it from news coverage and she had to follow the law. Written. She was a fairly tough prosecutor. Meaning she served the interests of her constituents perhaps that means she doesn't serve the part of the Democratic Party represented by the intercept. But that we find to say in a story if the story were is Kamla Harris as good on all the issues as the left wants her to be. But recall, the phrasing of the story problem for Kamla Harris where the guardians headline comma Harris can a top cop when over progressives in twenty twenty. Well, it depends how progressive and it matters. If we're talking about a narrow slice of the electorate with the most uncompromising definition of progressively. We're just regular democratic voters who consider themselves somewhat elected and another annoying thing about camera Harris, that's not annoying about comma, Harris. It's annoying about some coverage of her is that she's from California and that California votes very early in the primaries. How early with early voting in California, they'll actually be voting before Newham. Although their primary date is after so as you know, California has a lot of delegates at four hundred ninety five delegates to be exact Iowa has forty-nine. New Hampshire is thirty three. This is a huge advantage for comma, Harris. But Rebecca buck of CNN tweeted, I feel a lot of analysis right now. Overstates Comal is potential home state advantage. Anyone here? Remember how that worked for Marco Rubio? Okay. That's true. A wounded and by then third or fourth place. Rubio lost to fellow Florida resident and infinitely more exciting candidate who conservatives Donald Trump. But you know, what decent candidates won their home states 2016 casick win, Ohio. Cruise one Texas Bernie one Vermont two thousand eight McCain when Arizona Romney won Massachusetts Huckabee one Arkansas, then Obama when Illinois and Hillary one New York in two thousand four Kerry when Massachusetts Edwards one North Carolina. And there was only one state where former Vermont governor Howard, Dean succeeded. It was Vermont California is not winner take all so there's no winning California. But she. Can get a massive haul of delegates. It's much more likely Harris does well in California. Despite the fact that one time this other guy didn't do well in his state, even though all the other times almost all the other candidates do well and the issues. Yeah. The issues seems like she's democrat not so far out there as to be concerning not so entrenched as to be boring. We'll see how the issues play out. And all I say is please let them play out and resist the premature dismissal of Kamla Harris. So annoying. And that's it for today show Pierre began his four things that annoy him about fellow just producer, Daniel Schrader. And Daniel says just four maybe I'll bring my number down from ninety two Rafael is senior producer of slate podcast. She may have lost willa, but she can't lose Dana and the rest the gist. We may have lost Doug Henning. But we've still got David Copperfield and arrest Debra do Peru and thanks for listening.

Rick Pitino louisville Kamala Harris basketball Patino Donald Trump prosecutor California Ann Coulter Brian Bowen Patino America NBA Samuel Adams Hannity university of Louisville Louis Massachusetts Boston Michael Sokolow Twitter
Hour 3: Dan Wetzel

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

39:45 min | 2 years ago

Hour 3: Dan Wetzel

"Stugatz here. How are you getting ready to go out Sharon to wash off the workday styling your hair, brushing your teeth. I'm asking because it's a proud member of Dollar Shave Club. I'm here to tell you no matter what you do to get ready Dollar Shave Club has everything you need to look feel and smell your best tasting your lunch. All day is not something you want to take with you when you go out. Well, the attempts peppermint flavor of DS's toothpaste will leave your mouth feeling refreshed and last prising long time and they're hydrating body. Cleanser helps wash away the work day. It's the best part of showering. It smells awesome. And my skin feel soft and smooth, no matter what you do to get ready, DNC everything you need. And I have even mentioned their razors and shea butter that everyone knows them for right now. You can get a Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five dollars each. That's it five bucks. They've got a shower set toothpaste and toothbrush set, or they're famous shea butter and razor. Any one of these sets are just five dollars. It's the best way to try out their amazing products. Check them out today, dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan, that's dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan. Due God's here. There's nothing small about your business. It takes a lot of hard work and it makes a us difference as the thank you during dowels annual sale. Dell small businesses offering up the forty percents off, select PC's with Intel. Core processors call eight, seven, seven by doubt to speak with a small business technology advisor today, you'll get tech advice and one on one partnership to help your business grow while 877-buy-dell that's eight, seven, seven by Dell. ESPN radio is presented by progressive insurance. Damn Wetzel. Yahoo sports get join us in just a minute here on the shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sports center update. Tune in as the Boston Red Sox take on the New York Yankees and game three of the AL d. s. it is tonight. It's seventy eastern on ESPN radio Monday night football, the two and one Washington football team squares off against the three and one New Orleans Saints tonight eight eastern on ESPN and finally. Bank see shared a video over the weekend that since went viral, showing how he installed a shredder into a picture frame, which was used a destroy one of his paintings immediately after it sold at an auction for one point, one million dollars. For all the latest headlines that information during the sportscenter allnight ESPN radio all throughout the day. Tweeter writes in here before last weekend and put this on the poll. Guillermo people can follow our polls at lebatardshow on Instagram now and on Twitter at lebatardshow before last week. And did you know that f. or Ron could go into a swamp and lose. I mean, he's got to the point spread should have been large in that game just because at orange, Ron was going into a swamp, not enough people are paying attention to or covering this trial, but then Wetzel ends up in interesting journalistic places. You could catch his yahu sports college podcasts available now on apple podcasts, sedan setup for the audience. What it is that drew you to sit in a courtroom. Well, is opposed the absurdity a little bit of the thirty, my opinion of the case. And then there's just the the fact that everything that we all know and suspect about college sports is really being laid bare in the in the court testimony. 'cause they're going under oath and people are are, are speaking frankly about how the underground economy works. Maybe even a level he didn't expect them in last week. We found out that Brian Bowen junior was paid twenty five thousand dollars by Dita's to play one summer of a basketball before his junior high school. I mean, that's a heck of a high school summer job. That's crazy that they have the some is that that high and it's that common that comet? Well, no, it's common. We didn't know inflation and taking it to their. Yeah, this is not the number one player in the country is not the number seven players number like twenty eight, and that's. What he got. So you get details that I think both you and I are pretty aware of how it works and you go man, twenty five grand for the summer like, wow, all right. So you know, there's a lot of a lot of details and stuff that come out that are are fascinating and and sort of the dirt on college sports. And I'm always in favor of a light getting shown on it and the absurdity of the sport and an absurdity amateurism when there's just nobody on the ground that actually following or believing in this thing practically damn, what was the most shocking? Most shocking Vamos shocking revelation. That one was pretty big there was he got paid two grand a month to play a prep school in Indiana. So you know a lot of people pay to go to private high school magin vacant to brand month, high school that was good. The allegation that that Oklahoma state offered a hundred fifty grand eight thousand dollars for cause, which I don't really understand. Why wouldn't you just put that in the main payment but and and help with and -bility to get a house, basically buy a house in Stillwater family, all the go play for for Oklahoma state. Again, this is this look good basketball player. He's a good starter, but he's not the Andre and or Zion Williamson or anything like that. That's a lot of money for Brian Bowen to play basketball. And that's what his dad said he's offered. So it's, it's it. Some of the numbers are pretty astounding. I think because you're not so far we're not dealing with, you know, top five player in the center. I think all of us would expect and say, you know, you get you get a top-five kid, you get the Andrei and seven foot one. I mean you're going to, you're going to do really, really well, but you sit there and say, that's how much you know starters going for holy cow. What's so what just just so that we're clear again, the who sports college podcast is available now on apple podcasts, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City is okay. Oklahoma state is okay. They're okay, but they're not. They're not exactly a juggernaut. So the going rate for college basketball starter than just to be clear, Dan Wetzel according to testimony under oath, the going rate for a college, basketball starter is exactly what what you said there. Some about that. I mean, he ended up getting a hundred grand from Dita's to go to Louisville. He was dealing with a hundred thousand dollar offer to go to Creighton. We're talking Creighton now was fifty grand to go to Arizona. So you know, for a kid twenty five to thirty five in the country that's used to be the rate yet many offers to go do whatever. He really wanted. Great. Yeah, so great. I meant so. So where have you seen this laid bare like this anywhere before? Just like this now? No, because he just it's, it's never come to it. We've actually had the trial and you've got the gadget NANDA sitting on the stand, just say the out, this is what I was offered. Yep, this is what is offered and and they'll be more details to come because you only got halfway through his direct and the defense will cross examined on three defenses here. There's three guys on trial, and they will try to show every detail possible because the three guys that are on trial, two of them work for Dita's. One was kind of a runner. Middleman would be agent. And their thing is they've been charge. With fraud and wire fraud and conspiracy for by painting or or greeting to pay Brian Bowen. They make the bribe, oh ineligible. And thus Louisville, which signed him has been defrauded out of a player. So. So there are basically the US attorney's office basically co defying NCAA rules which alone is is it goes are, but they're saying everybody's been paying this guy since his fifteen years old. We're not hurting the player. We're not hurting the school. We're helping the school. We're helping schools recruit players that they want. So you're going to get every detail possible because they're going to be like, look, you got twelve different schools off at this guy money. Some gave them a grand, pick it on Fisher visit or this or that whatever they come up with. So there will be even more details you just you always hear it obviously has been stories. I mean, nobody's shocked by this, but not when you just have dad sitting there saying, Yep, bang, bang. Thank guy like that. Because what else was he gonna? Do you not gonna lie it a federal trial? When you have been charged with crimes, he's just a witness, you're gonna tell the truth. None of this stuff you know is really that important to him. Dan, do you think there's a single program out there? Not bending the rules to get players a single one. While my friend Jerry talk and used to say nine out of ten schools sheet in other ones in last place. So. He knew it before anyone though. Right? Did he not? They just aren't winning. I would say this, like you're not gonna hear like, oh, Mike, chef ski drove on my house and canopy one hundred thousand dollars at a back. Like those things don't happen. But every single top player has agents around in financial planners, have people trying to pay their friends, their high school, coach, whoever if you're a top player. You have the opportunity to make a ton of money you. You're going to make a buck that offers gonna commit. Is it possible that some never accept anything? Yeah, it's possible. Is that probable now, this is the United States come on, right? So you may not know. Like, let's let's take the Patino defense and say, Patino really didn't. You know, let's take them at face that he didn't know Dita's paying the hundred grand, but you kinda gonna to suspect it. If you don't, you go, why isn't a shoe company trying to get this top player? Of course, they're going to try to get him. Of course. I mean, if Brian Bowen getting twenty five grand to play a summer of a ewbal ball after his junior year, and it is is it's funny the whole van wars de'andre Eytan or anytime I don't wanna put names and they're not in the trial, it's not fair, but just any top kid and where do those top kids go? So us your chef ski a Calipari, a Bill self, and they may not be in on the deal. Oh, but do they know something's probably going on. I mean, there's no way not to so is anything clean by NCA standards? No, that doesn't necessarily mean you know, I think there's a distinction. I, you know, you may not know, but that's how it works. If you don't recruit these guys, you lose what's going to become of this trial thirty seconds or less. I don't know. I don't know if the government can win and the fed usually win. I really don't like their case too much right now. It's my bias too though, and in terms of NCA stuff, probably not much. I don't think I think the say is wants us to go away and they get back to the game. So pretend this isn't happening Dan. Thank you always excellent. The sports college podcasts available now on apple podcasts. He is consistently doing excellent work. Thank you sir. Anytime. But then is done for so Matt's Dollar Shave Club, it's not just your face, manage your entire body. You can keep your body feeling clean, tell them Stu, guts, Yep, no matter what you do to get ready for work in the morning, Dollar Shave Club has everything. You need to look feel and smell your best. The intense peppermint flavor of DS's toothpaste will make you wake up in the morning and they're hydrating body. Cleanser is the best part of a morning shower. It really is. I love that stuff. And right now you can get a Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five dollars five dollars right now at dollarshaveclub dot com slash and they've got a shower set toothpaste and toothbrush set, or they're famous shea butter and razor. Any one of these sets right now or just five dollars after your starters at product ship at regular price, get yours today only at dollarshaveclub dot com slash debt. You're listening to the sweater donlevatar shoe on ESPN radio. I think smoking always affected my daily life because I was a closet smoker. It really sort of. Controlled my entire day. My boss is the one that recommended jewel, so I decided to give it a try. You don't get any of the odor of smoking. There's no ash all over your car. I would say give it a try. Get the flavor and satisfaction of smoking without the mess of cigarette. Asher lingering odor switch to Joel check OJ dot com. Slash sports. If you don't smoke or vape, don't start warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. If you missed any of the show, you can listen to all three hours of the Dan lebatardshow on demand in the ESPN app was our Miami only hour that is before the show. And now you can subscribe to our best of podcast. It's all valuable. The listen to add of the ESPN app if you need flowers, fast one, eight hundred flowers dot com is here to help with an amazing offer order a dozen red or multicolored roses for twenty nine ninety nine get another dozen plus a vase. Absolutely free to order go to one eight hundred flowers dot com. Slash ESPN the legendary soap bubble Verne Lundquist joins us in fifteen minutes. College football will wash all over you and you will feel good about Saturday's, and you will ignore very quickly that you were just told that if Creighton wants a starter, it's a hundred grand. Creighton. That's where we are ladies and gentlemen, not not not not. It's that's for Creighton to get him. So we were talking about during the break. We were laughing about just hypothetically, right? Not none of us making accusations here, but let's just assume that Wetzel who's in a trial, listening to this testimony has a good governor on what's going on and that the twentieth twenty eighth best player in the land will get a hundred thousand dollars to play. At Creighton, we'll get offered multiple hundred thousand dollars. What does Huggins show up with as the bag. When he's delivering the bag of cat, a bag of brash the back. What is the bag of cash or should we do this more responsible way and just do it who's the duffel bag? Like who among the coaches is the duffel bag, which way do you wanna do? We could do the duffel bag. I'll just I'll answer the first question though because I do believe that Bob Huggins just comes with the standard Brown lunch bag. He just put a stack of wild standard Brown might be a hundred ground or poop like dog poop that you put on the doorstep when you're on fire. When you're trying to play the prank on your neighbor. I'm thinking there's some cooking oil at the bottom of the bag to some Greece's. A bag of fries would be good back in in in a bag of fries food. Jay Wright Brownback needs a bag. He has the cash. She needs a bag. He stopped at a fast food joint gets a bag of fries. Eats. The fries sticks the money in the bag. He doesn't stop off. It's been in the car a month. That'd be a funny game show. Right? So like if this becomes legal, so this guy says, I'm going to go to this school and then there's two bags you need to pick a bag at one is poop and one is a ton of money. Wouldn't that be exciting. Yes, but it's not the game. We're playing gamma. Try to stay with the games that were playing now you could stay here for now. I'm tired of throwing that would be a fun game though, like any project. Our our conversations not interesting enough for you like you need to take them somewhere else when we're talking about onion rings and French fries. And now you start asking us about the Honey that sticks together your catcher packets like, are we boring? You are. We are we getting in the way of your work day. It's like, let's make a deal kind of where there's a Zong and then sometimes there's a lot of money. So you're there, you know, like, oh my God, how many songs are they going to be? Should I wait for door one, two or three? That's what they should do recruiting. That's what it should be. Right. See I like this. There's a Duke bag and there's a Cincinnati bag, and there's a Carolina bag and the recruit opens up the bags, and then he makes his decision and I'm guessing he's gonna decide whichever bag has the most money that's going to just a guess. I mean, that's what I would. You know, it's been saying with me ever since you said it. I've never had Honey on my ketchup packets. I don't know what you're talking about. It seems so foreign to me. So who do you magin comes and shows up with a just a gleaming, silver, suitcase, filled with cash. No, no. It's on that coach Cal because he's Louis bad guy, coach cow, wait, what is Cal going with? Well, hypothetically, just like anything like t shirts, like anything, you know. My theory would be this, the the, the silver, sparkling, suitcase, filled with cash. That's something that's still delivered by Quin Snyder just because of old habits like he just liked doing it. He misses it. That's how we, as his cable Bill when Snyder the duffel bag I got break, right? It's Bray. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's bright as good as coming with the duffel bag. You just throwing it on your lawn taxes. You're saying that Huggins doesn't waste time with the bag. You just hand you the cash go, really? That's good. I do. The poop. I, I love this game which is wildly responsible. But I mean, we're, we're coming off the reported portion of this, which is a very credible journalists in the middle of a trial where people are swearing under oath. Just told you that Creighton has to go one hundred grand for a starter according to testimony, which is bleeping crazy, who puts the cash in a cookie jar, you and I'm not going to go with cash because that's reckless. But if you were going to give if someone were to give something in a cookie jar would probably be Jim Larranaga. Oh, yeah. Cookie jar wise coming. It's trying to be grandfather lacy old. Even though he's the same age as coach. Cat, he's coming. He's coming into date, your grandma, and he's bringing the cookie, the cookie jar filled with cat. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Jim Larranaga is not happily married. I am suggesting all these college football coaches are dirty by association by being in that game. Yeah, you choose that as a life. Look their suitcases and bags of cash all around you and you are playing, you know, a rigged money game where you get all the money, and then the sneaker companies you pretend like I don't understand how Patino can have any plausible deniability, like, how do you get the starter? If you know other people are offering money, like, how do they keep Patino in the dark. So he thinks he's so great that he's just landing these recruits. They gave him an a because he's in a casket. TIMMY, more of the Dan lebatardshow on ESPN radio ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance Verne Lundquist. There's a legend on the line, man, very excited for this is a. Book out, he's going to join us just a second here on the shell Pennzoil performance line. This is his walkup song. Here's your sportscenter update. The sons of afire GM Ryan mcdonagh. Twins. Third baseman Miguel scenario was arrested in the Dominican Republic after driving over a police officers foot breaking the cops leg in the process while driving without a license plate and carrying proper identification. And finally, a law has just passed making default password such as admin and password illegal for electron ick firms to use in California beginning it two thousand twenty. Here's these selectquote term life insurance difference. Most companies give you one option one policy, one rate, but selectquote shops and could get you up to ten options from highly rated life insurance. Very free. Personalized quote, call eight hundred seventy eight zero, ten, ten, or go to selectquote dot com. For all the way to headlines information tune into sports center on ESPN radio all throughout the day, his new book is called play by play, calling the wildest games in sports. It's going to be available tomorrow. I want to ask him for the most embarrassing on air moment that he's had, but I'll give him the minute to think about it. And in the interim we will play for you asking that question of another broadcasting legend been Scully back about my third year about nineteen fifty to the dodgers were playing Cincinnati and Cincinnati had an outfielder named Lloyd Merriman. I'll never forget it. And. Lord hit a ball foul. And my mind told me to say, hot shot, hit foul. Never came out that way. And everybody in the booth fell down as I was absolutely mortified. And the reason I remember Lloyd Merriman I started filling. He's a former Marine Corps pilots combat and Korea I did on and on that that really. Had to be considering how young I was. Yeah, that was about it. So Verne thank you for joining us again play by play, calling. The wildest games in sports is going to be available available tomorrow. Thank you for being on with us. Do you have a story to rival that one, you know, Alison, your producer just in making an introduction. It's live survey. Curious, don't curse. Set up. Who is the Tel Verne Lundquist not to curse before he goes on the air. I was. I was not offended. I was surprised. Yeah, I do. I've got one. I can't spend the sale like VIN Scully can, and I'm trying to think of proper way to to put this on the air without embarrassing all of us. I will tell you this it. It was a juxtaposition of concert. And it was a Monday night game Cowboys and Philadelphia, and. What I intended to say was the Cowboys. Philadelphia Eagles are ripping the Cowboys, punt coverage to pieces. Oh, no. It did not come out that way. Oh, I'm sorry about that. And and and to to to eat not candy, VIN Scully, nobody in the world, but I will tell you this when he said something about being mortified and getting no help. I mean, I did have literally an ice cold shiver go from my feet up to my armpits and I looked over at Brad sham expecting help, and Brad head. He's back turned to me and was just about the full care. He was laughing. And I know, well, my producer for sure is going to help me. Gary Brandt was his name, and I looked over and he was on his hands and knees in the back of the booth. No help whatsoever. You miss it all. Is there, is there anything? Is there anything that you miss about because we miss you? Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this thing CBS was so great with me in terms of of, and this doesn't happen to everybody in this craft as you guys know to walk out with your head held high and and they allowed me to do that. I was not consulted on my replacement, but I was asked for my input and they, they suggested Brad nester, and I said, couldn't be better. I've, I've admired I've known him since the early eighties and I've admired him as a person. He and Gary Danielson had worked together before, and I just think it's been a seamless fit and I've watched well, I missed one game this year because we were on a pardon me, but. On a river cruise in Europe. Now, that's something I couldn't do for the last forty five years, but I'm, I'm regular and I've told them both. I'm now doing what thousands or millions of people do on Saturday afternoon. I'm sitting in my bend with my feet up on the coffee table and screaming at the announcers. Were you shut up? Are you really what is what is Verne? Lundquist greatest criticism of what sports broadcasting has become. Argumentative contentious. I'm a storyteller guys. I have been all my life and how I made my living. And my my perception of the role of a play by play guy is to set up the analyst far Viet from me to to pretend that I've got the wisdom or the knowledge of the background of the guy, Gary Danielson or Terry Bradshaw or Dan Fouts the the list goes on. I think I'm setup guy and I'm a storyteller. And my role I think is to give people who are listening or watching a reason to care. And you do that by telling stories about the team's about the owners about the players and and not taking sides, but I want you if you're tuned into Georgia, Alabama. I want you to care about the people and the and the schools that are playing and I, I don't. I'm I'm, I'm stuttering here because I don't know quite how to say this, but I don't enjoy play by play guys who suddenly analyze the game. That's why you got the guys sitting next to you Barron lung with us here on ESPN radio, his new book play by play, calling the wildest games in sports. We'll be available tomorrow Verna one such a big fan. I'm wondering, did anything before after surpass calling Tigers chip at Augusta for you? Well, yeah, did guys I would. I would. I'm an old fogy now, but I'm six months younger than the guy who won the masters in eighty six a certain Mr. nNcholas, and he took the lead on that magical Sunday with a twelve foot birdie on the seventeenth hole. And I got to be there for that. So I, I've been so blessed and I'm asked a lot what? What was your favorite call? Well, in my case, it's Jack in eighty six being number one, tiger in two thousand five one eight and a very close one it and it's probably a generational thing for me. I mean, I know Jack a heck of a lot better than I know tiger and we've, he said, once I'm, I'll never forget him saying this on video and attributed at the university of Georgia. I made the putt and he made the call. So we're joined at the hip for life. There are worse things in your life then to be pitch to the hip of Jack nNcholas. Did did anything happen in football? Like, do you have these rankings as you've had to order your life for this book play by play, calling, the wildest games in sports, my guess is you've had to. Visit some of these things. Do you have a favorite call from the from the other sports? That's non-gulf really easy. Dan is to go back twenty thirteen last regular season game. We get number one, Alabama at number four, Auburn, and against all odds. Nick, Nick saving asks for, and after review was given one second back on the clock, and it was tied twenty eight all and he called on a young Richard freshmen who had attempted to two field goals and he's life. And he was asked to attempt to fifty seven yard and. Chris Davis was nine yards in the end zone and Chris Davis returned it for a touchdown. And and the reason I guess is so fav- my one of my favorites is that Gary and I- intuitively and this is another of my pet peeves about guys who do this for a living. We Intuit, we didn't look at each other. There was no. We just shut up and we laid out for a minute and twenty one seconds, which is an attorney. And I knew I know that time because I've seen this thing many, many times during which time Craig, Craig silver, and Steve Milton, our guys in the booth and the truck should have won an EMMY. They didn't. I don't get it. But see, particularly, the director was conducting a symphony, and he made twenty one camera cuts in that one minute twenty one seconds and a land. Selling a book and we loved that you have a landline. Perfect. Is what you should have. You need to have a landline. I'm hoping it's a rotary phone. Actually. I'm on the landline hotel. That's my cell phone and I know what it is. It's a book publisher of a magazine publisher, asking me if I want to re up for three years. Let's let's go around the room here real quick. Billy. Do you think that Verne Lundquist curses? Do you think he curses away from the the field? Yes or no? Only if 'fiddlesticks is a curse. Okay, ROY. What about you you think so? I absolutely you'd do things so Mike, do you think that Verne Lundquist. Can you imagine him being enraged, yes or no? On the golf course. Okay. On the golf course enraged Vern. What is the answer here? Unin marine enraged, cursing Verne Lundquist is that exist? Not in rage, but with a full capability of using words, it should not be under Brunton. Goodnight. Thank you. My my wife is standing right here. You want me to put her on your tired to spend more time with her. Sure. We'll talk to her. I'd like to ask her what an enraged, cursing Verne Lundquist looks like red cheeks beat red. No, I I have a temper I truly do is Nancy can attest. I try to keep it in check. That's shocking. Only shocking. No, no, it's not play. Play by play calling the wildest games in sports. It is available tomorrow. You wanna tell us before you get outta here Vern the emotions that went into writing it. Yeah, and and let me correct something. They had a slight delay one week in the publication date is going to be on the October sixteen. And the reason I'm tool by Harper Collins is they had an issue with the binding of the book. Who knows this has been an education. I've never been through anything like this and their demands that are made in terms of the time limits that you have. And in all candor, I wanna I wanna let you know. I had really serious back surgery in November. I'd put it off or a number of years and and I needed to give my position my surgeon, six months for rehab. So once the retirement happened, we did this back. November at the segment clinic in Vail highly recommended, and there were some issues. And so when when the process was to have begun, I just didn't have the energy or or the the interest in getting this thing done. So with the agreement apart for Collins, we hired a guy named Gary Broza from evergreen Colorado who had written Tony LaRussa 's book among maybe twenty others. And so he is the ghost rider on this. It was a heck of a process. We would get together four times a week. We'd take three day break. We talked for an hour and a half. Sometimes two and our conversation was recorded in a call center somewhere in Iowa. I'm sure it was field of dreams had to be, and and Gary would then write a chapter sent to me. I would fact check it and then we would send it back to New York to the editor, Matt Harper at the at the publishing house. And so that was the process by which it was done. It's it's my, these are my stories in my words, almost all, but Gary had a big part in all of that. I, I wish that you, these people need to get their mother bleep in binding, correct on your book can be out when it's supposed to be out Vern. Thank you for being on with us. We appreciate it, sir. Thanks, Dan. Thanks to give my best, Nancy. Okay. We sure will. Oh, that wanted noise says soom soom zoom and it. Boom, boom. Couple of mentions cutting it up. No, Nancy. No, Nancy do now. I mean, I feel like I know the lung was my tire life. Don't you hymns people keep yourself young, vibrant healthy, use the supplements from him. Tell him through gut EM guys. I've got a question for you. Do you want your hairline to recede or do you want to do something about it? I probably do something about, I want to do something. Yeah. Well, you need to visit for hymns dot com. A one stop shop for hair loss. Skin-care another wellness up lament for man. Thanks to science. Baldness can be optional hymns connects you with real doctors and medical grade solutions to treat hair loss. They have well-known generic equivalents in name brand prescriptions to help keep your hair no snake oil pills our guest as you counter supplement. It's dead prescription solutions backed by science. No waiting room, no awkward in person. Doctor visits save hours by going to four hymns dot com order today, and our listeners get a trial month of hams for just five bucks while supplies. Last see website for full details. This would cost hundreds. If you went to the doctor or form c. go to four hymns dot com. Slash Stu, God's, that's f. o. war h. i. m. s. dot com slash to God's do today four hymns dot com. Slash to God's. Give me more of the Dan Le Batard show on ESPN radio support for the Dan lebatardshow podcast comes friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans that's about buying a home for. Minute because of rising interest rates is a lot of unpredictability when it comes to buying a home these days, it's causing a lot of anxiety and stress for a lot of people. Well, our friends at Quicken Loans or doing something about that. They're calling it, the power buying process. Here's how it works. Wiccan lows will verify your income, your assets and credit and less than twenty four hours to give you a verified approval that gives you the strength of a cash buyer. Then what you're verified, you qualify for their all new exclusive rate shield approval. This is very cool here I, they'll lock your rate up for ninety days while you shop. Now, here's the best part. If rates go up your rates stay the same, but if rates go down, you're right also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thing and you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Simple, go to rocket mortgage dot com. Slash Stu gods rate shield approval only valid on certain thirty year purchase transactions, additional conditions or exclude as may apply based on Quicken Loans data. Comparison to public data records equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states NMLS consumer access dot org number thirty thirty. At the very end. We've gotten the sound cleared personally from one of the broadcasters in a heroic effort. We will give you the Spanish call of Graham Gano sixty three yard game winning field goal in a second, but first happy forty, eighth birthday to Matt, Damon, happy birthday to him. I don't care. Good luck. Check out a podcast he did with Bill Simmons. You'll find it interesting if you care about a Matt, Damon. Mike is the sound been cleared is downloaded. How long is this out? Oh, courtesy of the Carolina Panthers Spanish radio network. Here it is. Got. Worth away. Really you didn't think that was one away the build up. I mean, it was so big. It was not long. What is no Logano mean air again, the the ignorance waving proudly waving the the flagstick of ignorance. His last name means he won it. That's what his last name means in Spanish means he wanted. I think we're overreacting, but they have done this. Call this exact same call past before playing it. Maybe we should have just played the old one and see if Dan noticed gay, you could have done that. You have it. Relive it, listen, it was better than a long story, but. Fuck fair. I was leading off my plane thing and my hand, which is trembling I couldn't bring myself to do at the weird about when it is that you offer gratuitous. Respect for people really are on. You're not lying. There's no consistency to it whatsoever, and I respect. I know it's strange. Why hit on you typically Joe? Just so yes, that seems to be when an interview and I didn't think it did. I didn't think this deserve, but when a story has gotten too long winded, we, of course, obviously go to Air Force One in Harrison. Ford get off my plate. He heard it. Oh my God. What happened there? I mean, what happened there? You're a raging raging, unrelenting unfathomable, poll human Yanna. Lebatardshow on ESPN radio. We live in a racist country.

ESPN Verne Lundquist Dan Creighton Dan Wetzel football Brian Bowen apple Dollar Shave Club Dan lebatardshow basketball Matt Harper Mike United States Dollar Shave Club Bob Huggins VIN Scully Dita Dita shell Pennzoil
Corruption, Scandal & The Big Business Of College Basketball

Fresh Air

49:14 min | 1 year ago

Corruption, Scandal & The Big Business Of College Basketball

"This podcast and the following message. Brought to you by jet dot com. Your one stop shopping destination. The jet experience provides a unique and relevant assortment with no membership fees. Start shopping conveniently at jet dot com or on the jet app today from WHYY in Philadelphia. This is fresh air. I'm Dave Davies in for Terry gross today, corruption scandal and the business of college basketball. A federal jury yesterday convicted three men of conspiring to use cash payments to recruit players to top basket ball programs writer, Michael Sokolow, says the case exposes the sorted competition for young athletes involving apparel companies scouts coaches parents. And so called street agents or runners who seek out players as young as twelve they're exploitive they are dealers in human athletic flesh. And they are trying to get their hooks into kids and get their hooks into families and get into their inner circles. And then to see what's in it for me. Lobs new book is the last temptation of Rick Pitino. Also, film critic Justin Chang reviews. The new fantasy thriller film suspicious. Support for this podcast comes from the Neubauer family foundation, supporting WHYY's, fresh air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation. Last year the NCW college basketball tournament known as March madness was seen by ninety seven million TV viewers six. Our guest writer, Michael Sokolow, says the money and recognition the sport generates has led to a host of corrupt practices in the recruitment of players for the top college basketball programs talented athletes as young as twelve or targeted for manipulation by St. agents Sokolov describes as dealers in human athletic flesh. Many of those corrupt practices were exposed in an FBI investigation, which led to a sprawling indictment that rocked the basketball world last year in the first of three trials in the case. A federal jury yesterday convicted three men of conspiring to use cash payments to recruit players to college basketball programs, including the university of Louisville. It's legendary coach Rick Pitino wasn't charged. But the scandal cost him his job. He's one of the subjects of sock allows new book the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. I spoke to Sokolow yesterday when the jury in the case was still. Liberating well, Mike Salk Olov welcome back to fresh air. You know, any enterprise that generates large sums of money can be beset by corruption. How much money is college basketball generate? Will billions I mean, it really depends on how you calculate it. But directly to the universities and to the NC double A billions. But if you figure in the gambling money and money, that's generated by recruiting sites. And all these crazy ways, you know, you're getting into the four or five or six billion dollars a year. Right. And where does the money go the money largely goes to the adults who run the games very little of it goes to the players the players get the value of their scholarships. So if you look at a program like Louisville, which is program that I focused on the generate about forty five million dollars a year in revenue they give out thirteen scholarships that adds up to about four hundred thousand dollars a year. The rest of it gets spread out to the coach who makes eight million dollars a year to the assistant coaches who make as much as a half million dollars a year all throughout. The athlete department. People are making six figures salaries. It does not go to the players and what I call the unpaid workforce. How big is the NC a championship tournament March madness. Just about a billion dollars a year goes to the NC double A itself, which is the nonprofit organization that runs big time college sports, but the money that that tournament throws off and all kinds of different directions is where you get into the two or three billion dollars. It's the kind of money that pro franchises are making or generating the differences that they are actually paying their players you right about the university of Louisville, which you say was kind of a quiet commuter school until a new ethnic director. Get him. Tom Jurij came in and had big ambitions and invested in big time coaches in new facilities, stadiums and basketball arenas, and and made a ton of revenue from it. Did it have benefits for the rest of the school? It depends on what you think university is or should be Tom George was in his own way. A genius. He was a failed. NFL place kicker who played all of one game and missed all three of his place kicks that was it for his NFL career. And he went to northern Arizona became an athletic director, and then Colorado state and became an athletic director, and then came to Louisville and everybody in the business at whatever you do. Tom don't take that job. You can't succeed. It's this commuter college. It's a mess. They've got no money. Nobody wants to go there. And he said I can do this the went to Louisville and he raised three hundred million dollars for all these new facilities. He got the city of Louisville to build them, an NBA style arena and the sports teams became ultra successful. And not just the big time basketball and football teams, the whole program became wildly successful and at Louisville. They started the call sports. The front porch of the university. Now, one of the parts of the story is the relationship between shoe and apparel companies and big time college basketball programs. What's the relationship? Dita's Nike and Under Armour shoe and apparel companies. They fund the grassroots basketball circuit that's the circuit in which these players come from the web of youth teams. They fund all of that. And then they pour a lot of money into the college programs themselves, you know, one hundred sixty million two hundred million dollars over a ten year period. And that is in return for the players on the teams wearing their gear. So if it's a Nike school, and this is what they're called. You're either a Nike school and under armor school or an Adidas school. So let's say you're a Nike school and your basketball team is in the NC double A tournament. Well, you've got the Nike Swoosh on your sneakers that's on your trunks. It's on your jersey. If you wear a wrist bands, it's it's on your wrist bands. If you wear a headband on your headband, so what they? I get in return for this money is the right to turn players who are stencil amateurs into human billboards. Right. And the contracts are very detailed by the players have to wear only their gear, and they give the university bonuses. If they do. Well. The shoe companies do well if the teams do well, if you're a Nike school, and and you reached the final four or review win the national championship. Your coach is short again one hundred thousand or two hundred thousand dollar bonus on top of his multimillion dollar salary. The assistant coaches are probably gonna get the bonus the school may get more money. The only ones who don't benefit monetarily are the players. But does does that bonus come from the shoe company, or no, I mean, they it comes from the shoe company? Yes, directly from the shoe company, and these are really not big sums of money for the shoe companies. You know, Nike is a multibillion dollar global company, so as Dita's under armor, a little less, so, but these are huge businesses and the money that that seems to to us perhaps so big it's not that big for them. And. It also means they don't really have to advertise like they used to. I mean, if you've got ten players on the court, and they're all running around in urine Signi is why bothered advertise. You know? These are human action figures wearing your stuff for tens of millions of Americans to watch. I mean, it makes advertising really redundant at that point. And it's much cheaper way to do it. Big time college basketball programs, obviously want the best players. So they're scouting and competition in recruiting them. And I think most of us would figure this would focus on high school players juniors or seniors who who proved that they have the chops and they visit their families. They do what whatever to try and get them interested in their program. I learned from your book this starts much much earlier. How young are players when they start getting attention fifth or sixth grade players are as young as ten or eleven years old when the. The basketball Cognis said he the scouts start looking at them and saying are you a future college prospect? Are you a future NBA prospect, and there are several reasons for this one of them is the size of players who make it too. Big time. College basketball in the NBA, you know, there's somewhere between six foot three and seven feet and up so that really narrows the population. So if you are looking at a young kid, you're gonna mostly look at a kid who's already big and already athletic, and for that reason, and some other reasons it is relatively easier in basketball to look at a sixth or seventh grader and correctly say this kid's going to be at least the college player. So it becomes worth it for these scouts to then prowl the sidelines of fifth and sixth grade basketball tournaments are their national publications or online sites that actually rate these players that. Have a lot of readers. Yes, there are publications and scouting services that look at kids as young as fifth grade. One of them's called hoop scoop. It's run by a man named Clark Francis. Who I encountered several years ago, and you know, there are elements of Clark when you meet him that that you may not take him seriously. He's a guy, you know, spends his life looking at little basketball players. The funny thing about him is if you go back and look at his tout sheets from five or six years ago, and you look at the fifth and sixth graders who reiterated the highest lot of them are in big time college basketball now or in the pros. So he's certainly not right all the time. But he's not bad at at picking out the best players. So what Clark Francis does whether you take him seriously or not is he lays down a foundation for people who then scout high school and mid. The school players, and he sort of sets the sort of number of players who may be looked at and the recruiting services are and other business and other way that young grass roots or high school players generate income for other people now, they're not just watching these kids in school gyms, right? There is something called the grassroots basketball network. Explain who runs that how it works. The main recruiting grounds which have also heard described as hunting grounds. It's no longer high school basketball you a high school game features. Maybe one star the kid may be six six and he's playing against a five ten kid. So what the shoe companies created was the grassroots basketball circuit? And that puts all the best players against each other in these pressurized situations. That's where the college coaches go to scout. And the person who created this was Sonny Vaccaro sometimes called the godfather of grassroots basketball and sunny was a brilliant salesman, and a brilliant sort of hustler in his own way. So he realized two things one was that put all the best players together was going to create a better recruiting situation. But he also realized that big time college coaches really don't want. To go to small town after small town and scout players they like to go to Las Vegas and stay in five star hotels or go to Chicago Orlando and stay in five star hotels and watch a bunch of the best players so sunny, not only put the best players together. But he created a situation that coaches loved, right? So you have these tournaments that occur in Chicago or Orlando or Las Vegas where the best players come. And these prospects these kids their families, take the more, and we're talking about middle school kids in a lot of cases. Right. And there are these people who are not agents. But you might call them runners street agents who sort of specialize in building relationships you describe a tournament in Las Vegas. I think in July you wanna just kind of paint that picture for us. Las Vegas hosts some of the biggest grassroots tournaments. So in July, you will have a couple of hundred teams all age groups and a thousand or more players a couple of hundred college coaches, and they're playing in gyms all over Las Vegas. Some of them are staying on the strip and they are being scouted. Not only by coaches, not only by college coaches. But also by these characters who exist on the fringes, I think of it almost like boxing back in the day. They sort of Damon Runyon esque characters who are there to sort of see what's in it for them. And on the one hand there's can be seen as colorful, but also just like boxing back in the day. They're exploitive they are dealers in human athletic flesh. And they are trying to get their hooks into kids. And get their hooks into families and get into their inner circles, and then to see what's in it for me can ideal this kid to a particular college can I associate him with particular NBA agent, and this is very much the scene on the grassroots circuit. It's known, and it's it's part of the background are their kids who when they're, you know, twelve thirteen fourteen kind of become celebrities kind of think of themselves as a business. Absolutely. There are there are kids who you know, this is their life. And one of the things that really struck me when I have been around grassroots basketball is the kids who refer to themselves as being in the business of basketball because that's how it feels to them. They may be twelve or thirteen years old, but they're in the business of basketball. So in a lot of cases families will move. They're promising young basketball player to a different city for a high school. That's it's known for being competitive. So it becomes kind of the family's lives to you. Write that on the college end of this. It's the assistant coaches who are really involved in recruiting explain what they do how they're paid. The assistant college coaches are the sort of ones who first make contact with the young player in his family. They fly all over the country. And there's a lot of pressure on assistant coach as it used to be an assistant college coach was a coach. I he taught the game. He mentored the young men a lot of them. Now, if not most of them are recruiters I and they are charged with bringing the head coach the best players. It's sometimes said in college basketball that you win in July. And that means you win games by getting the best players from the tournaments, the grassroots tournaments in July in Las Vegas and elsewhere. But the assistant coaches that's the job. Get me kids the thinking in. The industry and among journalists and many who follow this world. Is that many of the head coach of say just get me players? Don't tell me how you did. It just bring them to me. There are things. I don't wanna know. These assistant coaches jobs are very well paid. They're hard to get their hard to keep their hard to get back in the business. If you lose the job the temptation to cheat is extreme, right? So you have these kids that are kind of showing their stuff in this amateur basketball, kind of network and these street runners sort of pre agents that build relationships and hope to steer them to universities assistant coaches who wanna make connections there. And the federal government has charged in this case that we're seeing money flowing among these parties to help to lure kids to universities. There's another really creepy part of this story, which took me awhile to get which is the street. Runners not just using you know incentives to get kids to colleges, but then some cases paying the assistant college coaches to steer their players who are already in college to a certain financial advisor that the street runner has a relationship with what's going on there. That's exactly right. And I and I think that's the most insidious part of this. So in the federal government's case there have been several assistant coaches charged with taking bribes from these runners or go betweens on the grass roots circuit. And the attempt of the bribe is to say, okay, you already have this player. He's headed to the pros send him to me. I want to manage his money when he becomes a pro, you know, put him in my lap. All right. So if you're a financial adviser did this is what you do. And you manage to have four in some way or another get an NBA player as your client. What's it worth to you? An NBA player over the course of ten year career can easily make one hundred million dollars or more. So if you're an agent and get two or three percent of that salary that adds up to a lot. If you have five or Ken of those players that adds up to a whole lot. If you're quote, managing the money of one of these players. I don't know what that might add up to if you're doing it legitimately. You're getting what a money manager might make. There's a lot you you're dealing in tens of millions of dollars. If I were a future NBA player or I were the family of a future NBA player. I don't think that I would necessarily send my kid to somebody who specializes in managing the money of sports stars. But there is an ecosystem of people who serve. Professional athletes, manage their money. If you get traded. There are specialists who will set you up in a new city, they will go to private schools and figure out what private school your child should go to they will find you designer for your new house and an interior designer so sports is a very insular business and a lot of the players want to deal with known quantities. And part of this is there's the money manager he manages NBA players money. So the game is to become one of those guys. And then to have one of these go betweens set you up with with players, Michael Sokha, lobs new book is the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball after a break, he'll talk about some earlier scandals involving Patino, and whether college basketball players should be paid. Also, Justin Chang reviews. The new fantasy thriller suspense. I'm Dave Davies, and this is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from each raid. Are you ready to make moves with your money? Invest with each raid and you'll see how simple investing can be no matter your level of experience each rates easy to use platform keeps you in the know about your money every step of the way, but it's not just their platform that sets them apart. Each rate has the people to offer guidance and support to make your money work hard for you for more information. Visit each raid dot com slash NPR. Each trade securities LLC member FINRA SIPC. We're speaking with writer, Michael Sokolow of who's new book focuses on the allegedly corrupt practices in college basketball recruiting exposed in a federal indictment last year in the first of three trials federal jury yesterday, convicted three men of conspiring steer cash payments to get coveted athletes into top basketball programs. I smoked a Sokolow yesterday while the. Zuhri was still deliberating its verdict. It was about a year ago that federal authorities announced this sprawling indictment. What was it about? What what did they allege? They alleged that players on the grass roots or youth basketball circuit. Were being basically bribed to attend certain colleges. The money in many of the cases was to come from the shoe company that sponsored the college team they were going to in this case Adidas, although there was evidence in the trial that strongly indicated that Nike and Under Armour are engaged in the same kind of activity. So in the three cases that will be tried. There are four assistant coaches at major programs charged and there are several other figures on the grass roots circuit sort of sometimes called St. runners or go betweens or consultants for the shoe companies. They have also been charged and the question in each of these cases is were there federal crimes committed or where they're just violations of the NC double A's. Amateurism rules, which are not federal crimes. Right. So it seems clear from the evidence that there were relationships which seemed to violate recruiting rules, and that money changed hands. Right. Absolutely. There's no doubt that money changed hands. But the way relatively small amounts of money in the grand scheme of what these apparel companies generate and and make in profit the young man named Brian Bowen junior who went by the nickname tugs was a much sought after recruit ultimately signed with the university of Louisville which was hosted by Rick Pitino says before the indictments and the events leading to his signing are among those involved in the criminal case, what kind of money went to his family and from whom. One hundred thousand dollars was promised to Brian Bowen. Junior's father that would be Brian Bowen senior of that one hundred thousand dollars only nineteen thousand five hundred was ever delivered. The money was to have come from a Dita's that nineteen thousand five hundred dollars is one quarter of one percent of the nearly eight million dollar annual salary that then coach Rick Pitino was making. So that to me is a pretty stark reminder of the inequity of this whole youth basketball scene. And there, and there was evidence that that wasn't the first time that Brian Bowen's dad had taken money based on his sons athletic ability. It was clearly not the first time. The Brian Bowen senior had taken money. He testified in court under immunity from prosecution that he had taken money repeatedly for in return for his son playing for particular, youth teams or particular private high school in Indiana. And there was a moment in court where the defense attorney of Christian Dawkins, one of the the runner the street agent said to Brian bow and senior on cross examination. So you've been pimping out your namesake since he was fourteen years old and Brian Bowen senior only quibble about the age he paused for a second. And then he said, well, maybe fifteen or sixteen years old, right? And is there any evidence that Brian Bowen the kid? Knew about this or saw any of the money. Brian Bowen junior had told the FBI, and he told me when I interviewed him, and he is told everyone he did not know the money was exchanged money was received by his father. There's been no evidence that he did. No. He went from the university of Louisville to the university of South Carolina transferred last year. The fact that the interest of South Carolina took him in is indication that they certainly believed that that he had no knowledge of this. But the NC double A still said you can't play basketball last year. And then ruled that he could not play college basketball this year, and Brian Bowen junior has gone off to play professionally in Australia, and is over there now in Sydney and has become one of a thousand overseas players trying to attract the attention of NBA scouts. He. Missed out on what is by far the easier route, which is the plan college to be on TV to be known and just take that glide path right into the NBA. So Rick Pitino the coach who's on the cover of the book the book is kind of about this system of corruption in recruitment. But Patino is a fascinating character. You say he it's not hard to make the case. He's the best college basketball coach of his generation, a tactical and motivational genius. And to give us a sense. An example of what he does it special. Rick Pitino won two national championships wanted Kentucky one at Louisville. He also coached the Boston Celtics and the New York Knicks two of the marquee franchises in professional basketball in college basketball, particularly at Louisville. He did something that's almost never done. He won without the best players most final four teams most national champions. Are stocked with first round draft picks high first round draft picks of the NBA which are called lottery picks Rick Pitino one without those guys. He coached good players. Not great players. He got them to play mercilus defense they played so intensely. He was a motivational and a tactical genius. And you know, by the way, I love watching him coach, you know, he would stand on the sideline in an athletic position with his knees. Bent, and you know, his head peering out over the cord often one. On the court and his hands behind him. And I always got the feeling that he put his hands behind him because he was so intense that if they weren't there he would reach out and grab the ball as it came by. But he was just this amazing coach and in some ways, you know, the for him to be caught up in this is a predictable and be tragic now he lost his job. He was not charged in the criminal case. But Louisville was tainted and he was given his walking papers after the indictment came out. But you right that this was not his first brush with scandal. What were some of the others? More than a decade ago. Rick Pitino had a sexual assignation in a closed restaurant with a woman who then tried to extort him. And she was sent off to prison, but he was the star prosecution witness who had to then recount in court. This incident with the woman who just met in a Bank at and everybody had left the rest, I was terribly embarrassing. And I would say after that Patino was just the basketball coach, which of course, you always was. But I I don't think he could be seen as a necessarily a mentor to young men. The second incident was many ways more serious in Louisville. It became known as stripper gate, and what strip gate was was four years of parties in the basketball dorm. Not very far from Tinos office. Sponsored by a local escort and paid for by a member of Patino staff and women danced and there were sexual favors for recruits and for current players and in the end in the NC double A's lexicon strange lexicon. This was ruled to be impermeable benefits to amateur players and Louisville actually lost two thousand thirteen national title over stripper gate, so that was sort of in that was sort of strike one strike two and this recruiting scandal and Patino was not charged but it involved staff members and involved a recruit at involve Louisville. Luba was a central thread in the FBI and Justice department case. And in the stripper gate case. We're talking about high school recruits coming to Louisville coming to a dorm where there were sexual things going on. What did Patino say about it? Rick Pitino who's written a couple of leadership books, but it's not really a model of of leader that most people would recognize employs a sort of circular logic. When things go wrong, and in the case of stripper gate, and and there was an echo of this in the recruiting scandal. He says I tell everyone to follow the rules sometimes they don't follow the rules. And when they don't follow the rules. They don't tell me about it because they know how angry I would be so in stripper gate and in this recruiting scandal. There were people just one layer below him. His assistant coaches or in one case is director of basketball operations who were elbows deep in wrongdoing. It would seem and Patino does not take responsibility for either hiring the wrong people or for hiring people who don't listen to what he says and. And right now coach Pitino has a pending case against the university of Louisville Athletic Association, which technically paid a salary, and he's seeking the thirty five million dollars which was left on his coaching contract. Mike Salk allows book is the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from trader Joe's where the concept of fresh is something that they take seriously. There are fresh episodes of their podcast inside. Trader Joe's and trader Joe's has fresh fruit. Fresh meat fresh milk, fresh eggs, fresh Hawaiian shirts, fresh bread and fresh values on all products for fresh air, you need to walk outside the store or listen to this podcast election day is just a few weeks away. And some are saying it could be a year of the woman. We're talking to Democrats Stacey Abrams and Republican Elizabeth hang to women trying to excite their parties in. In two thousand eighteen that's next time on it's been a minute from NPR. This is fresh air. And we're speaking with writer, Michael Sokolow of who's new book. The last temptation of Rick Pitino is about a recruiting scandal. In college basketball when these federal indictments were announced a year ago. It was big news where people in the college basketball world shocked to hear that these things were going on. They absolutely were not shocked what the FBI did was put names and faces to what many people had assumed or knew was going on. But there was an element of shock. And what that was was that the FBI was on the case the FBI was knocking on doors. The FBI was bringing parents and coaches and players into interrogation rooms as opposed to the NC double A, if you're in college basketball, it's an occupational risk that you may run afoul of the NC double A. It was not considered an occupational risk that you may be visited by the FBI. And maybe looking at prison time that was a shock. And has it had a major effect on college basketball programs? I mean, Louisville certainly was turned upside down they lost their coach what about others. I think overall it has not yet had a big impact on college basketball. You know, I mentioned that they dwell a fantasy land and part of that just involves putting your head in the sand. So one of the most prominent coaches in college basketball, the legendary Mike chef ski coach K of Duke, which just quoted as saying this is a blip. This is nothing. You know, this trial is nothing it's a small sliver of what really goes on. Well, nobody believes that. But the fact that coach K said it gives you an indication of the sort of institutional reaction to to what has gone on. And. A determination to sort of try to get past this without really changing anything you write that the question in the criminal case is whether this conduct violated federal criminal statutes, but what what's really at issue here is the fundamental hypocrisy. If not corruption of the whole structure of college sports, explain what you mean what call sports does not pay its workforce it generates billions of dollars, and it doesn't pay and at a certain juncture. That's just not defensible. Maybe when the money was a little less. You could say okay, they're getting their scholarships. Now, you've got players generating ten and twenty and thirty and forty million dollars for particular programs, and they're not real students their loyalty and their their responsibility is to their team. I. Which takes up forty or fifty or sixty hours a week, and you're not paying them. You know, you are you are having their elders just spread the money around. And they're not all by the way, going into pro basketball, and pro football some of them are just moving through not necessarily getting a degree coming out with some injuries. And yet the NC double A persists in the myth of the student athlete when everyone knows that if anything it's the athlete student. You know, the the athlete is what you're there for. I'm gonna come back to one thing. You said earlier you said a lot of people knew that that shady things were going on. And there was a risk of running afoul of NCAA regulations. It is a whole new game. If you have the FBI asking questions, do you think that will make a difference in the future? I do think it will make some difference. But I think that difference will be just in the way that people conduct possibly criminal activity on if people will be more careful, you already heard these people, you know, on the recordings that the F B took them, you know, talking about, you know, we have to do this in some underhanded ways we have to get it out of certain accounts. So they knew were engaged in criminal activity. I think they'll be or possibly criminal activity. I think they'll become more careful Sonny Vaccaro, the former Nike executive the godfather of the grassroots circuit. He told me these people forgot where the boundaries were. You know, they got to greedy. He also said and by the way, you never do this kind of stuff on the telephone. So there's an element of all of this that makes this looked like just common criminal activity. It makes. The three shoe companies seem like crime families on the on the basketball circuit. So to extent that all of this is true. And I think it is whether it's criminal. We don't know it will continue to go on because there's too much incentive for it to go on a certainly think with the FBI on the case, people would become much more careful and just so we cover this. I mean, you said that in some respects shoe and apparel companies look pretty bad in this. What do they say about their role in in college recruitment, and these charges the apparel companies have been very quiet? They have put out sort of vanilla statements that this is not what we do. But they've been very very, quiet. There is a Adidas executive who's one of the three current defendants is name is James gadoe. He's being represented by a lawyer hired by Dita's. And by the way, James gadoe who this Adidas executive is father was a high school coach. He's an insider. He's a basketball insider almost all of these defendants are well liked. Well, known insiders, they're not people who operated, you know, outside the system. I think one of the scariest things for people in the basketball industry to the extent that that they are alarmed is these people were them they were family. They were part of the basketball fraternity and Adidas and Under Armour and Nike are part of the corporate basketball fraternity. And I don't think they're planning on much to change either. If they can help it Michael Sokolow, thanks so much for speaking with us. Thank you. It's great to be on with you. Michael Sokha, lobs new book is the last temptation of Rick Pitino a story of corruption scandal and the big business of college basketball. We spoke yesterday later in the day in the first of three trials which sprang from an FBI investigation. A federal jury convicted three men of conspiring to steer cash payments to get coveted athletes into top basketball programs. One of those men was James gadoe junior. The former head of global basketball marketing for Adidas coming up. Justin Chang reviews. The fantasy thriller suspense, this is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from made, well where the motto is good day. Start with great Jane's made well has options for every type of denim devote t-, men's and women's styles. Extended sizes and more, and you can recycle any brand of old genes and made well stores made well works with blue jeans. Go green to turn them into housing insulation for communities in need for every pair you bring in you'll get twenty dollars off in new in. So stop by a made well store or go to made well dot com. Yoyo stretch Armstrong SIA together, we are the host of what's good this week on a show at rock and Mike d of the beastie boys chick the first time we played a show in Seoul excited. We all wear Puma suits and do rags? I don't understand. How did not get killed that night? I really don't. We're trying to get through the crowd and his all these dudes calling us Minu Dr. Listen in subscribe now a year after his Oscar winning romantic drama. Call me by your name. The Italian director Luca guate- Nino returns with suspicion a remake of dairy OR Gentles nineteen seventy seven horror film of the same title. The new version is set in nineteen seventy seven at a Berlin dance academy. It stars Tilda Swinton and Dakota Johnson. Film critic Justin Chang has this review of suspicious in the one thousand nine hundred seventy seven Italian slasher movie. So spuria a young American woman joins a German dance academy that turns out to be run by witches Dario are Gento turned that threadbare story into an art. Nouveau fever dream drenched. In candy, apple blood and a demon possessed music box of a score once reviled as camp, but long since embraced as a horror classic suspicious has haunted the dreams of many movie goers. None more. So than Luca guate- Nino who. Who has spent more than thirty years trying to remake it you can understand why the director of such viscerally erotic romances as call me by your name. And I am love would respond to spirit for its lush stylistic possibilities alone. So it's surprising at this new movie departs from the original in every way imaginable. The visual palette is cold and grey guate-. Nino has drained away the bright lurid colors and most of the shocks and crowded the story with historical detail at two and a half hours this spirit runs a full hour longer than the original. And it takes its time creeping into your veins, but creep, it does the movie is a hoot and folly. But it's also a marvel a magnificently obsessive vision that comes to feel less like a remake than a rebirth. It's nine hundred seventy seven the year of the deadly German autumn, and the still divided city of Berlin is reeling from the. Violent acts of the radical Red Army Faction also known as the Baader Meinhof gang into this chaos comes Suzy banyan, a strikingly self possessed young woman from Ohio who has just joined the prestigious Helen, Marcos dance company. Susie is played by Dakota Johnson who starred in the fifty shades of grey trilogy, and is thus no stranger to subjecting herself to extreme physical exertions. The company specializes in a form of modern dance. Notable for its forceful aggressive choreography, which expresses an embodied the traumas of Germany's war-torn past and present the director Madame Blanc is played by Tilda Swinton, an actress with natural sorcery in her veins. She begins preparing Suzy for the lead role in an upcoming peace working, especially on her jumps. But Madame Blanc is also clearly grooming her for darker purpose when you not Saddam, so the number you make yourself. An image and its creating. And said that how can live within you understand. Yeah. Yeah. It company now you have to find your right place. You have to decide what is it? You want to be this company? The spine the sex. Hot. The hans. I wanna be this company's hands. Hi. Hi. It's no spoiler to note that this dance is a form of witchcraft. Any doubts will be laid to rest early on by a hideously gruesome setpiece in which Suzy dances, a solo unaware that her body has been magically conjoined to that of a dancer in another room as Susie dances. Be other woman is mercilessly tossed about her bones cracking as her limbs twist like a pretzel such grisly moments aside, it's almost perverse. How little the spirit traffics in overt scares guate-. Nino and his screenwriter David ca Janik generate plenty of unease, but they seem disinclined to build suspense at times the movie drowsy right into the witches inner circle as if it were trying to get you on their side. These witches may be wicked luring young women into their ranks and punishing those who disappoint them. But are they more evil than the horrors of war could the dance? Kademi perhaps be a stronghold against those horrors in all female enclave passing down. It's dark arts from generation to generation in an effort to ward off in even greater darkness. I can't decide if this notion is brilliantly audacious or completely pretentious. Maybe. It's brilliantly pretentious, either way guate- Nino commits to it entirely and with an astounding level of craft the dance choreography by Damian chalet is mesmerizing and the music by Thom Yorke of Radiohead strikes. Discordant notes of beauty and longing. Perhaps the most shocking thing about guate- Ninos aspera is how moving it becomes as you realize how deeply these women are enslaved by the past. And also by the powers, they've summoned to escape it on a lighter note, one of the most significant characters is an elderly psychotherapist who starts investigating the bizarre goings on at the academy. After one of the students seeks his counsel. He's played by an actor named looks abor store f- though, as a New York Times story recently revealed abor store f- is in fact, an alias for Tilda Swinton buried under layers of old age makeup. It's an ingenious piece of prosthetic sorcery that makes an odd sort of sense in context outside this witches coven. The only man of note turns out to be a woman in disguise. Justin Chang is a film critic for the LA times. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our interviews and reviews are produced an edited by Amy salad films Myers. Sam brigger Morin crendall, Heidi soman. Theresa Madden moves eighty Fe Challenor and Seth Kelly for Terry gross empty. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything.

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Butler Shuts Down Wolves Practice

Outside the Lines

25:10 min | 1 year ago

Butler Shuts Down Wolves Practice

"My name is Lauren. I'm thirty three. I didn't want my identity to be the smoking mom. My first experience with jewel. I do remember being like distance, good. It's it's it's like a cigarette, but not. I don't miss smoking at all. Like I can officially say it grosses me out jewel is the tobacco alternative that delivers nicotine satisfaction without cigarette Asher lingering odor make the switch and j. u. l. dot com. Slash sports warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. He were allowed finger-pointing, emotional yelling tone, Scott Layden. You f ING need me a lot of true kind of makes you wonder. It was sort of n-. You nounce charges of fraud and corruption in the world of college? Basketball, it's about a month setting up a system that is Kim pinky of that. I had no knowledge of any of this. The giants? No, this might be their last chance there. Nothing I was going come in between us four because we take a real hard look in the mirror. There was a whole lot at stake tonight. What you see change your perception, Abby sporting events. Get this. The NBA regular season hasn't even started getting already drama is at a fever pitch. Thanks to Jimmy Butler back to that in a minute, welcomed outside the lines. I'm Ryan Smith and for Bob Lee, the eagles the giants. All that ails them. That's our big story today in years past, the eagles giants bitter rivalry was must see TV. Now it's emblematic of the current status of the NFC east. Now feeling a lot like the NFC least one in four. The giants are tied for the worst record in the league. Only the Browns have had fewer wins than them since the start of two thousand seventeen. And since Oto Beckham's comments about the about Eli manning and the team lacking energy now, questions about the locker room. Strife are answered with that. Nothing to see here mentality. Nobody in here likes to lose world Todd of losing. We want to change that that that Kotor atmosphere, whatever it is because this is a place that has a lot of pride and we want to be able to, you know, be proud of what we display and do all those things. So it was a big week force. We took a big step on four. We lost on a sixty. Two, your feel go. If I have to lose on a sixty, three off feel go. I mean, so be it hasn't affected the guys at all. I mean, nobody's talking about it. You know, nobody seems to be affected by what's going on outside. It's kind of just everybody outside. Everybody in the building is fine. As for the chance, the eagles already have lost as many games by week five as they did all of last season feeling that Super Bowl hangover. And according to Doug Peterson, the fall for their woes requires looking in the mirror quote, it's all self inflicted our offensive woes had been breakdowns in the red zone, turnovers penalties sacks things that keep us from scoring touchdowns. It's all things that are correctable and fixable. Now, interestingly enough as bad as both teams have been the winner of tonight's match up could in theory be atop the division by week's end. Lots of questions here. Let's get some answers. We're joined now by ESPN NFL reporter, Sal, paolantonio who is live from MetLife stadium. All right, Sal. Let's start with the eagles. What really is their problem in your opinion. Well, I texted Doug Peterson a little while ago and I asked him. What specifically did you tell the team last night about how to approach this game against the giants and Ryan? I'll just read to you what he just texted me back moments ago. He said, I told them that we have to control the line of scrimmage on both sides. Ball security will be crucial with the bad weather, get them on the ground with solid gang tackling, be more efficient on offense and have some fun. Get back to playing our style of ball. The bottom line that we saw last week against the Vikings on Sunday night at Lincoln financial field. And I covered that game for ESPN was you had veteran players making rookie mistakes. You had false starts on Zakar Jason Peters in Nelson aga- lar- you had an illegal formation on alshon Jeffery. You had fumbles by Carson Wentz in j on the five yard line. They know. That the penalties and the turnovers, the little things. If they clean them up, they're going to be in much better shape against giants tonight, Ryan. And you know, I know you've covered the giants for years. You covered ally manning, you were there for a Super Bowl wins, and ESPN report came out earlier today saying that back a couple years ago, they thought that ally manning was on the back nine of his career. They wanted to get rid of them. The current regime decided to build around him. What do you think about all the blame now that's being heaped on top of ally manning. Well, here's the back page of your new York. Daily News. I got a four year Ryan there it is do or by ally needs to win tonight or it's time to move on. And this is exactly what happens when they have problems around the New York Giants. Everybody jumps on everybody dumps all the problems on ally. He gets all the blame and it's patently unfair, right? Ally manning didn't draft, Eric flowers. The last time I looked and Eli manning did not drop to passes in the first quarter of that last playoff game that the giants had in lambofield against the Green Bay Packers that resulted in a blow out. Yes, ally manning deserves some of the blame, but not all of it. You know, you go back and you look at what Pat Shurmur has brought to this offense. It's try to ball control with the short passing game. He's not been asked Eli manning to throw the ball down the football field, and they've done a bad job protecting ally. Manning. So that's on the offense of side of the ball. And then you look defensively for the giants. They got six sacks in five games, just six sacks and five games that's near the bottom of the National Football League, and they are giving up in the run game a hundred and twenty four yards per game. Rushing. That's also near the bottom of the league. So they've got to clean it up on both sides of the ball. It's very unfair to dump it all on ally, although he needs to improve his game going into this game, there's no question about it. Yeah, one rival executive saying in the report that building around him is almost akin to Pat Riley trying to build around Dwayne raid right now. Of course, he's not the one to blame as you say, lots of problems with the giants. And then another big problem with the eagles is obviously running back j j out for the season. Now, what is the situation with who they might bring in? There's been a lot of talk about bringing shady back. Well, you know, there's a lot of discussion about that, and I watched Adam Schefter this morning on Mike Breen. Greenberg show get up and he said, you know, there are conversations and if things can work out between the eagles and the bills, this is a trade that could happen how we Roseman the GM of the eagles has done this thing in this kind of thing. In the past he brought in j.j I in a trade from the Miami Dolphins last season. If anybody is going to make this kind of mid season move, it's a guy like Roseman and bringing shady McCoy back to Philadelphia would be a big win in the locker room and with the fans. There's no question about it. But in the meantime, they've got two very capable backs. If you watch Super Bowl, fifty, two Koi clemen caught a pretty nice ball the back of the endzone against the patriots in that game and Super Bowl fifty two as you well know Ryan. So Corey Clement has well equipped to handle not only the load at running back for running the football, but catching it out of the backfield. He's been bothered. By a quad injury. That's been an issue for him, but they will rely on Corey Clement and they will rely obviously on when Dell small what to carry the load until how he Roseman can work his magic somewhere else. Nobody in Phileas. Forgetting that clinic catch anytime soon, south. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Now let's start a Minnesota where things are heating up on the court. The whole thing is I just wanna be appreciate it. That's it. It's not about anything else. I'm not saying I'm the best player in the world. I'm not saying I'm this. I'm not saying that I'm not. I'm just saying I might be a little bit important. Just a little bit. That's all I'm saying never before has a preseason practice. We're talking about practice dominated the sports world, but seems like there's never been anyone before like Jimmy Butler. He's frustrated with Minnesota's, failed attempts to trade them and Wednesday, the four-time all-star returned to practice for the first time. This off season dominated in a scrimmage against Karl Anthony towns and Andrew Wiggins while unleashing an ex. Split of laced tirade that would make a timber wolves blush on everyone and anyone in the gym. Now, his point summed up with this comment GM Scott Layden you f ING need me afterwards. Sat down with Rachel Nichols and interview that Butler setup onto Senate. I haven't played basketball and so long, and I'm so passionate and I love the game and I don't do it for any other reason except for it to compete and go up against the best to try to prove that I can hang. So all my emotion came out at one time what it the right way to do it. No, but I can't control that when I'm out there competing. Like I think that I was honest was brutally honest, yes, but I think that that's the problem. Everybody's so scared to be honest with one another. So what is going so wrong in Minnesota that despite making the playoffs he wants out of town, what did he need to see and hear from the team is about like saying, we need you, we want you here. We can't do this without you, and that was the disconnect all year long. Like you're you're saying one thing in you're saying and you're saying you're saying it. I mean, I've learned enough times in life that you know saying something completely different than acting upon it. And he hinted that winning isn't the priority for everyone on the team, but I'm going to be, I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to say no names, but I'm going to be honest. If your number one priority isn't winning, and people can tell. That's the battle. Now there's a problem between people because that guy's number one priority is winning. That guys is isn't of course they're gonna class. I'm doing it for the team. Are you. Exactly. So that's that's what it disconnected. And now this the practice scheduled for today was abruptly cancelled this despite, Tom, oh, reasonably complaining about the team's lack of practice time when they all do finally get back together practice or otherwise. Here's what Butler says. He'll be like going forward, you don't get the best version of me no matter what, whoever a suit up for you're going to get the better. I'm going to do my job. But with that being said, don't don't act like you care about me as a person, just don't do it. Buying Holland's always gives us the best version of himself ESPN basketball analyst. Let's welcome in. All right. So Ryan. Look, he's looking for acknowledgement. He's looking for accountability. That's what we all want. Right. But looking at his situation, you in Minnesota before, what should he have done? Did he handle this the right way? Now, obviously I'm a different player than Jimmy Butler. And when I asked for a trade out of Minnesota, it was quiet. It was handled between the front office and my agent Todd Rams are, but in the case of Jimmy Butler, he's already two feet in. I have no problem with his performance yesterday, but take your frustrations out Jimmy in the right place. It's with the front office. You want to be paid. They didn't pay you. Now you wanna be moved, handled it like an adult. Now what's going to hold you back from getting what you want is getting into it with Wiggins, getting into it with Karl Anthony towns. We already know the beef is out there, but guess what? There's another team. Actually, the majority of teams have young players on their team that are cornerstones of their franchise Jimmy. And if they're going to bring you in, you want to be a part of that. So if you're creating problems, they're team is going to be less likely to trade for you. So he needs to make things right with Wiggins and call Anthony towns. And we amicable Eglise for the time being. So you demand that. Must be something in the water up there. I don't know what's going on, but let me ask you this. Let me ask you this, what will it be like though going forward in the locker room? Because let's say he's not traded. He still in there. He's called a lot of guys out. They all got to play together. What is it like in the locker room? Take us in there. What do you think is going on. Well, it's grossly uncomfortable right now and for the players in a guys on that team once Jimmy actually showed up, it was kind of everybody was looking around Guanajuato. Oh, wow. He's actually here today. Jimmy shown up. I thought he'd be traded. I thought it'd be moved. There's a lot of questions throwing around. I can imagine from the training staff to the weight coaches to the assistant coaches that just want to get this thing resolve. And obviously it's an odd situation when Jimmy Butler is thrown on the third team because you're really questioning what is he still doing in Minnesota. So if this thing escalates, I'm gonna look for Jimmy Butler to either be traded a lot sooner than expected or a situation where they asked Jimmy, just, hey, go home Jimi or we'll. We're organized some workouts for you away from the team because this is a toxic environment in which we can't have see what's interesting about what you just said. It's exactly what he wanted. He wanted to force a trade. So the devil's advocate would say by coming out by saying what he said by doing it the way he did it left them no choice, but to move them. Even if it's for pennies on the dollar. So in that sense, could he have been sort of, could this sort of been a master stroke. Oh, it was absolutely a master strategy, but you heard Jimmy earlier in his in his conference is sit down with Rachel talking about. I had this at my emotions. Got the best of me. I could control it. Yes, you could control it Jimmy, because when you went in, you had an agenda to go out and win each game. You wanted to make a point. And now things spilled out and they got out of hand in damage control is being done. You know what a team doesn't want a team doesn't want to be on the front page of the newspaper of the headlines on ESPN for bringing in God because these are questions at Jimmy's is going to have to answer for the rest of his career. We saw this situation essentially arise, not this loud, but in Chicago already with Jimmy. So if these things keep moving forward, it's just giving him a bad name and that's something anything that an organization doesn't want. And if you're not a team with thick skin, gosh, Ryan, you can't bring on Jimmy Butler. Yeah. And you know you gotta wonder if that team the trades from thanks. He was like that. Then when he'd be like that with us. Toxic, continuing with the heat as well as we speak Ryan. Thank you so much. Well, coming up the latest on the NCAA corruption trial where college sports goes from here. My name is Lauren. I'm thirty three. I didn't want my identity to be the smoking mom. My first experience with jewel. I do remember being like this, it's good. It's it's, it's like a cigarette, but not. I don't miss smoking at all. Like I can officially say it grosses me out jewel is the tobacco alternative that delivers nicotine satisfaction without cigarette Asher lingering odor make the switch and j. u. l. dot com. Slash sports warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. In today's bebop college basketball in federal court. Just over a year ago, the FBI dropped the bomb on the. In today's bebop college basketball in federal court. Just over a year ago, the FBI drop the bomb on the NCAA arresting ten people including basketball coaches and shoe company executives accusing them of committing federal crimes. The picture painted by the charges brought today is not a pretty one coaches at some of the nation's top programs soliciting and accepting cash bribes. Managers and financial advisers. Circling blue chip prospects, like coach, he's an employee's of one of the world's largest sports where companies secretly funneling cash to the families of high school recruits, the ensuing report revealing Louisville head coach, Rick Pitino, and his program were part of the investigation. His assistant accused involvement in funneling cash to recruit Brian Bowen in exchange for his commitment within a day school made a major move effect of immediately. Coach Pitino has been placed on an unpaid, administrative leave coach, Pitino employment will be reviewed at a later date. Nearly two weeks later Louisville fired Patino. Jay Bilas sat down with him two days after his firing and Patino was adamant if I knew something was wrong. I've immediately woulda terminated anybody in that situation. I had very little. I don't have any tolerance the people that do to wrong thing. That area. I had no knowledge of any of this and that recruit Brian Bowen spoke with the SPN in December and just like Patino. He denied any involvement. I didn't know anything anything the same way the whole media found now is the same way on there's no way they have to be lying. There's no way that involved in this because, you know, I'm just playing basketball like it just came out of nowhere. So. Now, the first of three federal trials related to the scandal is underway to Adidas executives Merrill code and Jim Gotto and an aspiring NBA agent. Christian doctrines are facing felony charges. They pleaded not guilty. This trial revealing the brazen nature in which NCAA rules were skirted. But when father recounted a bidding war between schools for his son services with offices is one hundred and fifty grand from schools Creighton, Arizona, Texas, and Oklahoma state one school adding to the pot, an eighty thousand dollar car, and the schools in snared in the scandal continues to grow yesterday and Dita's bagman testified that he offered to help schools like Kansas secure, top recruits. What that actually means is likely to be explored in court today. Welcome in ESPN college, basketball analyst, Jay Bilas. He's also an attorney. He joins us now j. I look at what's going on in federal court. Everything that is wrong with NCA recruiting being laid bare right there. What is your takeaway so far with what's happened in this case? Well, Ryan, I hate to say it's not a lot of surprise because I think most people that have had their the ground in college basketball and college football have known things like this have been going on for a long time, in fact, for for decades upon decades. Do I think anything's going to change as a result of this? I hate to be cynical, but no, I don't. I think after this is over, we're all gonna move on. There's not going to be one game cancelled over this. There's not going to be one check that goes on cashed. I hate to say it's going to be businesses usual, but I think we're going to go back to what we were doing before. And as soon as the FBI is out of this and these cases are wrapped up, I don't see this being any different because the incentives are going to be there to to skirt NCWA rules as they have always been there. And when we're talking about a multibillion dollar industry now, I don't think those incentives are going to change it. Go away. You have to wonder if you're the NCAA interested, not having this kind of controversy. What will it take for them to change. Well, it'll take more of this as you know, there's, there's a case going on in the in the night circuit out in California before judge Claudia Wilken. That's another antitrust case. The AA is going to be going to have to be made to change in order for there to be any change. But we're doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, and we're not going to get that in my judgment. I think the answer is going to have to open it up and allow the athletes more because they're not going to be able to have enforcement. That's gonna stop normal commerce. And that's basically what this is. It's normal commerce and we certainly have to expect it. I don't condone the breaking events, AA rules, but you'd have to be naive to think that there hasn't been NCWA rules broken for all of these years. And that there haven't been ineligible players playing routinely throughout college, basketball and college football, if not more sports. So I just don't see a whole lot of change coming here and you have to wonder if some at some point, if this gets bad enough, maybe congress will step in that could force changes. Well, wanna. I want to ask you. There's been something. There's been a lot of talk about how NCA president Mark Emmer hasn't been. There hasn't showed up at the trial not saying that he has to. There's nothing that requires him to be there, but what do you make of that? I'm not bothered by that Ryan. I think the leadership or lack thereof of Mark Emmer has been conclusively established by now. I think it would be good for him to show up at the trial because I think he should see this. But with regard to anything outside of legislative, the ability to legislatively have some influence to be able to push people in the right direction. The president's AA is largely figurehead position, and so I don't see how he him being. There really moves the ball in any direction for the NC double a. he has been out front in other cases. Sort of stepping forward to say, you know, screaming equity integrity is presidents do, but other than that, he he's a very little consequence in this. Yeah, it's amazing to think that even with all that's going on in court, all this information we're getting now that nothing might change. All right, Jake. Thank you very much by the way, Brian Bowen now playing for the Sydney kings teammates with former number one, pick Andrew bogut. Thanks, Jay. Thank you. Coming up baseball once a fee for you bet on sports. I think they'll get it. Technology truth brought to you by Geico. Truth, teenagers can communicate entirely emojis. How why? Birthday party pizza slice kitten, soccer ball, pineapple truth. It's so easy to switch and save on car insurance at geiko dot com. Why are you talking about paper clips? Shoulder, shrug, high, five wizard hat what go. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. Sportscenter at six PM eastern after PTI was sage in Kevin. They're gonna breakdown, e manning stats plus take a look at how special Patrick Mahomes has been too week. Five. And what's next Jimmy Butler in Minnesota that sportscenter six eastern on ESPN and ESPN. Give us money. It's only fair since what does that work in America? Well, major league baseball is hoping this works for sports betting. Their executive vice president of gaming told the panel on Wednesday that the league wants one. Fourth of a percent of all betting handles on MLB games, reasoning. If the Yankees weren't playing the Red Sox, you're not betting on the Yankees and the Red Sox. We think we should be involved with that. That's a quote, fair enough. But fairness gets you know where where money is involved granted, at least one quarter of a percent is better than the one percent the that Adam silver and the NBA one, but leagues. Let's pump the brakes here. Last time I checked betting has free rein in Vegas and no one is paying a fee there. Why would other states pay what Nevada isn't? And there's nothing that legally obligates states to pay the league's. So the bottom line is they won't so leagues want federal oversight of betting. It's likely easier to get congress to impose a fee and trying to convince each state with legalize sports betting. But for the fans who would eventually be paying that integrity feet cost that. Concept of fairness completely lost on us. That's it for outside lines today fell live next.

Jimmy Butler Ryan Smith giants Basketball Minnesota eagles football Eli manning ESPN Nicotine NCAA NBA FBI Scott Layden Ally manning National Football League Asher Lauren Jay Bilas
Rick Pitino Gets Yet Another Shot

The Lead

27:39 min | 4 months ago

Rick Pitino Gets Yet Another Shot

"In in the midst of the corona virus pandemic. There's been some big college hoops news. That's flown under the radar hall of Famer. Rick Pitino is returning to college basketball and his hometown as head coach of I. Don't Rick Pitino. The legendary coach who's last decade was embroiled with controversy will be returning to the NCAA. After nearly three years out of the college game for some Pitino's return carries a lot of negative associations. If you feel like he's on an ethical snake which I do do. I think he's a liar. I do think he's a liar. Do I think that he knew far? More about the scandals. He's been associated with that. He lets on absolutely today. We're speaking with the athletic. Seth Davis about Pitino's rises coach the series of scandals that left him without a job and whether Pitino ultimately deserves another chance. Let's face it becomes just some baggage if you are a big time school? That risk is just not worth from wondering on the athletic. I'm Cathy Davidson and I'm under SCELZO. It's Friday march twenty seventh and this is the lead. It felt like something was happening. Something about the emotion and not because you never see. This isn't a story clear. The ATHOL IT stays with you. The lead is supported by light. Box ever heard of lab grown diamonds. Ladron diamonds are essentially chemically identical to natural ones just made in a lab at light box. They've hacked the process to grow gorgeous stones every time it starts with a tiny piece of lab grown diamond heated up in a plasma reactor temperatures nearly as hot as the sun after about two weeks. Those little seeds grown to full stones. Now here's where it gets really interesting. Lightbulbs labra diamonds aren't just made the same every time they're also priced the same. Each carrot is eight hundred dollars mind blown even cracked the science of colors. You can sparkle and pink white and blue check them out at light bucks jewelry dot com slash lead in use code lead for twenty five dollars off that's lightbulbs jewelry dot com slash lead. L. E. A. D. and use code lead for twenty five dollars off. Well Sas the NCAA. Tournament was officially cancelled two weeks ago and just two days. After that there was a hiring that lots of people probably didn't notice there actually was some very significant college basketball news over this weekend and it involves a hall of Famer. Iona College surprise the college basketball world announcing the hiring of Rick Pitino as their new basketball coach. Pitino ionas one of those programs. That's even though it's amid major level has a lot of history enter addition and has always been one of the top if not the top programs in its conference. Which is the MAC? Back it out and put a board straight season. Rookie Card Danson eighty-one Sixteen ionas head. Tim Clues who'd been there for ten years. Did a really good job. But he was not able to coach this past season because of an undisclosed illness and it was not clear. When or if tim clues was going to be able to come back as head coach and sure enough he announced that he would not and within a day or so. The school announced the Rick. Pitino was his replacement. Rick Pitino has coached a lot of places including the Knicks and Celtics in the NBA and Kentucky and Louisville in college and his career goes back more than four decades. How did Patino rise through the ranks as a coach Rick? Pitino hit the ground running as a young man and never stopped. He had immediate success in his early. Years was hired at a very young age as the head coach of Providence. We run much. Like bird runs on desire. Not so much in being fleet of foot so to speak and and that's what we try and do it all people. Just get them to run. Get them in the best possible physical condition you can be in was one of the first coaches to truly embrace the three-point line. A lot of the old school coaches were not feeling the three point line they thought it was gimmicky. He saw the math. He saw numbers and using that formula with a young guy. And his back. Court named Billy Donovan. was able to coach. Providence to the nineteen eighty-seven final four and only a second year. Rick Pitino brings the providence fires and Billy Donovan into the final toll from there. The Patino legend really took off in a really. Never slow down and stuff. You've been covering Rick. Patino for decades all the way back to when he was the head coach at Kentucky in the eighties nineties. How would you describe his personality? Well I have to say I've always found very likable. Everybody make sure they thanked him. Host this limousine. We haven't taken one in fifteen years since my high school prom. I haven't had a liberal. But I didn't find him likable early on. I covered Patino when he was the coach at Kentucky and he was just word I would use his insufferable and Kentucky is like its own kingdom. You know it was like his fiefdom. He was a God at Kentucky and I think that's cute. His perspective and I heard plenty of stories from employees and assistant coaches around Kentucky about how he treated people. By the time he got to Louisville. I found that he was very chastened by his experience with the Celtics and really the the key event in his life was nine. Eleven and losing his very very best friend is brother-in-law. Billy minority in the Trade Center. That took a whole lot of his heart. That to this day has never been replaced and with him. Understanding Basketball Games are important and the NCAA. Tournament is important. But they're not life and death or other things in life and it's not all about you so this coincided right with him coming back to Louisville because his season at Louisville was two thousand one two thousand two on by that time you know. Patino is kind of at a crossroads in his career. He already has a national championship with Kentucky from Nineteen ninety-six. But he's getting to Louisville in two thousand one after a coaching stint. That did not go. Well well he's coming off the humiliation of the Boston Celtics. The Celtics are twelve games under five hundred. They're season four and a half fame out of the final playoff spot in the east. Larry Dog Fans Kevin McKell walk through that door. I'm not walking through that dog and if the expected to walk through the door they're going to be gray and all what we are young exciting hardworking and going to realize that but people understand how good he is. I mean when a coach gets to the NBA. There's so many factors in terms of the franchise draft pick so As humiliating and as difficult as that spectacular failure was and he walked away from tens of millions of dollars when he left that job. It wasn't like a Wise Louisville Higher and the Guy It was Wow Louisville. Just Got Rick. Pitino is really going to win big there because he's one everywhere that he's been on. Of course. Patino does win. Big At Louisville and culminates in a national title in Two Thousand Thirteen College Basketball Champions Studies as his second National Guard. I just stuck eight. Dow At Louisville Brookhurst at two different schools so in terms of just wins and losses. It's hard to argue with. Pitino track record as a coach. But there's this other side of his career and that's the controversy. August of two thousand three Rick. Pitino has this brief affair with Karen Cypher. On a table in a closed Italian restaurant gets her pregnant and then pays three thousand dollars for an abortion and she's also putting increasing demands on hand that he doesn't pay her money that she is demanding from him and she will go public with what happens and so it takes many years but in the spring of two thousand nine Rick. Pitino has no choice but to make it public. He has to tell the federal authorities that he is being extorted. Prosecutors claim Karen couldn't against cipher demanded millions of dollars from Patino or she would ruin his reputation with claims of rape and a forced abortion Tino now. A coach at Louisville admits he had an extra marital affair with Cypher. In two thousand three it is extremely harmful episode for him to say the least and he's looking down the barrel of losing his family and losing his career at the same time Karen. Cypher is later sentenced to eighty seven months in prison but a very very damaging and painful episode no question and but for the support of the Athletic Director at Louisville. Tom Jurij in most cases. Rick Pitino would be out of a job and let's be honest. If he didn't so much he would not have kept his job. And then in twenty fifteen two years after the national title a Major Scandal Hits Louisville head on this one is initiated by woman named Katina Powell who partnered with a member of Rick. Pitino staff named Andre Magee one of his former players that director of Basketball Operations. Mcgee was accused of bankrolling nearly two dozen parties inside Minority Hall on the University of Louisville campus parties where strippers and prostitutes were used to lure recruits Katrina. Powell did what people tend to do which is exposed all this in a book that she co wrote and these Allegations and facts were extremely troubling on several levels. First of all there's the legality of sex trafficking and whether using people who are underage serving than alcohol. So they're laws being broken But there's also the matter of What does the NCAA do about this? Because you could. And they did eventually make the argument that it gave Louisville a recruiting advantage by providing extra benefits to recruits and players. Once you determine that someone has received something they should not have received they're supposed to be ineligible and therefore any games that they played in have to be eradicated or addressed in some way An- Louisville's case this included players who played on the two thousand thirteen. Nc A championship team. So this is a big time pickle up for the university because you've got a head coach. Who already had this big time personal failing and now this very sworded set of circumstances. It was a big big mess. What was Rick? Pitino is role in all of this. Well Rick Pitino. We'll swear as he has many many times that he didn't know that any of this was going on one person do some scarlets things I believe so what I know now I believe so the only thing I don't know I don't know why he did it but it must be said Kavita that from the NCAA standpoint. It does not matter because a set of rules were passed a few years ago about head coach responsibility and head coach control. Where if a member of your staff commits a violation that violation and the penalties therein are attributed to the head coach so even if the head coach does not know about it and even if the NCAA stipulates we believe you. The head coach is responsible for it and the head. Coach gets penalized for it. The NCAA HIT Louisville with a huge Infractions case it deemed that the players were in fact retroactively ineligible the NC Double A. Has Denied Louisville's appeal of penalties handed down last year as a result of the teams stripper scandal. Meaning the Louisville. Men's basketball team will officially vacate. It's Twenty Thirteen National Championship and twenty twelve final four appearance penalties for the first time in. Ncaa history a national championship is vacated. At this time was there pressure for him to step down. There was always pressure for Rick. Pretender TO STEP DOWN. Much of that pressure came from the media. Much of that pressure came from outside the university the the backbone of his relationship to that university was their athletic director Tom Jurij they very well entrenched respected and very powerful athletic director and extremely extremely close with Rick Pitino and they weren't just colleagues Kavita. I mean those guys are very very close friends and so because of Tom Georgia support. Rick Pitino appeared that he was going to be able to survive yet another scandal at Louisville. Well he did survived for the time being but the knockout blow really comes in two thousand seventeen when yet another controversy hovers over Louisville after some explosive findings from an FBI investigation prosecutors allege and Assistant Coach at Louisville was part of a scheme to pay at least one hundred thousand dollars to the families of two recruits if they signed with the university. The central figure in these cases was a young man named Christian Dawkins Christian doctrines wants to become an agent. And the best way to do that is by latching onto a player who can help you. Establish your agency and so Christian Dawkins did that with Brian. Bowen a player who committed to Louisville the allegations that the southern district of New York later made in their indictment was adidas which sponsors Louisville funneled one hundred thousand dollars to Christian doctrines into Brian. Bowen family so he would play for Louisville. Because Adidas is ostensibly invested in Louisville's success in a statement. Pacino's lawyer said the information disclosed thus far is clearly insufficient to implicate coach. Pitino in any type of misconduct. The rush to judgment is regrettable. It's fair to say that at this point the powers that be at the university on the board of trustees and the greater community at large they were done with Patino and they were done with their athletic director. Tom Jurij effective immediately coach. Pitino has been placed on an unpaid administrative leave coach. Pitino EMPLOYMENT WILL BE REVIEWED. At a later date they go through the motions of suspending him first and then firing him later and it's pretty amazing to think that none of the Louisville coaching staff was ever arrested as part of this case and to this day. Rick Pitino is the only head coach who's lost his job. It's time to talk about something. Super Awkward Debt. Getting INTO DEBT IS EASY. Getting out as a lot of people probably know is really hard especially if your credit score is in great but upstart dot com a lending platform. That knows. You're more than just your credit score and that offer smarter interest rates can help you pay off your high interest credit card debt. Upstart goes beyond the traditional credit score. When assessing your credit worthy abyss and they actually reward you based on your education and job history. Once the loan is approved. Most people get their funds the very next business day because sometimes things like this. Just can't wait. See why upstart is top. Ranked in their category with a four point nine out of five rating on trust pilot and go to upstart dot com slash lead to find out. How low your upstart rate is checking? Your rate only takes a few minutes. That's upstart dot com slash. Lead upstart believes. You're more than just your credit score. They believe in you introducing into America. A new podcast from NBC News and MSNBC. It's a show about politics about policy and about the power. That both have in shaping. The lives of American people each week host. Tremaine league goes into America to tell voters stories. He's joined by a team of NBC News Journalists. Who will help him? Bring the campaign trail alive from every corner of the country. Search for into America wherever you're listening now to subscribe new episodes premiere every Thursday so south after Rick. Pitino gets fired in the fall of twenty seventeen. Did it feel like all? The controversy had finally signaled the end of his coaching career. At the time. That Rick Pitino lost his job. A lot of us were under the assumption that at the very least he was done with college basketball. It was hard to imagine that he was employable on any level and everybody agrees that he's a great coach. But it is hard to imagine that. At that point that somebody could make the calculation. That the winning offsets the downsides of bringing Rick Pitino onboard while Seth you've sat down with Patino less than a year after he left Louisville to interview him about his book. How is he doing at that time? I found him pretty much. A man of peace quite frankly I think he understood that. There are certain people who are going to think things about him that they wanted to think his conscience was clear. You know I got a little spoiled. Then you can get lays never got lazy. But I trusted my assistant coaches so much of a pilot so many good people that I never bought a million years to Mike guys can do what they did. Because that's not what our philosophy was. Rick Pitino will tell you that as the head coach. He understands that he's responsible for what happens in his program but he insists both with regards to Katina. How and also what happened with Kristin Dawkins and Brian Bowen? That would ever happen. He didn't know about it and there's never been any evidence to say that he knows about those things. I'm not GonNa let you should know. No I shouldn't have known that I make mistaken who I hired one hundred percent. Does the buck stop would mean one hundred percent And I've got to take ownership for all of them but The truth a matter. Is that these. Two assistant coaches did the wrong things. They were taught to do the right things by their parents and by me and and they've got to be contrite and going to own up to what they did wrong then move on with their lives and so he is willing to accept his responsibility for being the head coach but he felt he was very very unfairly treated by the school for firing him so quickly before. All the facts of the case could come out to me. This board of Trustees locking me at my office telling me I'm dismissed before facts came out. Let it develop and frankly. I think he has an argument to make their in terms of culpability. In the case Rick. Pitino is never a target of the investigation. He was never a defendant. He was never an Unindicted Co conspirator on what did Patino say to you about his future as a coach when you sat down to talk to him at that point he decided he was gonna coach again and He was at peace with that coach. Someone officer job down the way I feel today. Yes life changes but like I said the media that I knew I can have a beer with them talk through. That's not the world anymore that that that world that I lived in. I liked today to media. It's more important for them to be I than it is to get the correct story so i. I'm not sure I want to coach World War. One thing I've learned with routine over the years is that while. He may believe what he is saying with the full conviction of his heart in that moment what he is saying is only applicable for that moment. And he's just one of these type. A personalities I've dealt with a lot of coaches like this. I think frankly a lot of them have some form of attention deficit where they just can't sit still and Rick. Pitino is one of those guys who's bursting with energy and he's a basketball coach. He's not a painter. He's not a poet and so not long after he swore up and that he was through coaching. He has an opportunity to coach a team in the Greek league and he takes it points. H getting helping you out gave up. 'cause you're not containing the guy. Go to Greece Fun. Players run practice. Coaching Games loved to do is what I'm good at and had this Iona Opportunity not presented itself. I'm sure he could have coached overseas for a number of years. We'll show that brings us back to his hiring and I don't know what's the reaction around college basketball been in the in the week. Plus since that hiring so of course leave it to Rick. Pitino to be hired in the midst of the global pandemic. You know it's interesting all this talk about well. I thought he was through with coaching. He thought he was through with coaching. Certainly no college would bring him back. I think we really forget. What time does to those calculations I still think? We live in a pretty forgiving society and the bottom line is. He's still a really good coach. And there's no doubt that players are gonNA WANNA play for him and it's GonNa be. It's GonNa be an exciting story. I mean even if people wanna root as hard as they can against him. It's still something that gets people talking about college basketball. Well and why do you think Iona was? The right place was willing to be the place where for lack of a better way to put it. Pitino starts his redemption tour. Well I don't think it was realistic for a power conference really high elite high major school to hire Patino. Because let's face it. He comes with some baggage and by the way. Louisville still has not been served with a even a notice of allegations based on revelations that came out of the FBI case so there are some major league shoes to drop if you are a big time school. That risk is just not worth it. Plenty of really good coaches that you could hire that. Don't come with that kind of downside but if you're gonNA there's a lot more upside that I think over takes the risk and the downside to hiring them so you know from my own standpoint. I think it's a pretty smart move and I think the energy and the success that he brings to your program and your university at large. I think there's a pretty convincing case to be made that that it's whatever comes with him. the upside the hypothetical. If you're a I ONA is well worth the investment. Just to add to what you're saying you know. Pitino's not out of the woods here like there's still a chance that he will eventually face a suspension so iona certainly taking a gamble on a number of levels keeping that in mind. What do you see as the endgame for Rick Pitino Now? Is this job at Iona. Is this job at Iona. His Swansong or his last. Hurrah or is it potentially a stepping stone for him getting back to being the head coach at a major program? I mean the man is sixty seven years old I don't believe he is looking for the next thing all the time the way that he used to. I don't believe that he is looking for a stepping stone. I think he would have been the coach. Louisville for the rest of his life So I have no problem Believing in the possibility that he could be the coach at Iona and that this is going to be his last stop. I would also have no problem believing that he'd be dumb enough to take the Knicks job or or that another school. You know that if he won again at Iona and another opportunity came along and a quote unquote higher level that he would want to take that job. So who knows one thing that I've learned In covering Rick Pitino now for a quarter century is anything is possible. Anything is possible for this man. Good bad and everything in between all right. Well thank you so much for joining US seth. Thanks for having me. You can read. Seth Davis Coverage of college basketball at the ATHLETIC DOT com. Here are some other stories. We're following at the lead as hospitals continue to be overwhelmed with corona virus patients MLB and fanatics the company that makes official jerseys for Major League. Baseball are stepping up with a big contribution on Thursday Michael Rubin Chairman of fanatics and part owner of the Philadelphia Seventy sixers announced they are halting production of MLB jerseys to make masks and gowns to donate to hospitals fanatics plans on donating a million masks to hospitals across Pennsylvania and they hope to expand to New York and New Jersey in the near future meanwhile UFC star and light heavyweight champion. Jon Jones was arrested for aggravated. Dwi and negligent use of a firearm. In New Mexico on Thursday he was also charged with possession of an open container and no proof of insurance officers say they found Jones in his jeep with watery. Bloodshot eyes on a bottle of alcohol in the backseat Albuquerque. Police say they were responding to a report of a single gunshot in the area and found a gun and a bullet casing Jones's vehicle Jones considered one of the greatest enemy fighters of all time. And I won the light heavyweight title in twenty eleven and finally Fred Curly Neal. One of the most memorable and iconic members of the Harlem globetrotters passed away on Thursday. Neal was the face of the globetrotters for twenty two years and played in more than six thousand games. All over the world for the team and he's one of only five globetrotters to have his Jersey retired curly. Neal had some of the best handles the game of basketball has ever seen Pistons legend. Isaiah Thomas put it pretty well tweeting quote for those who say the game has evolved. I say what's old is new again. Distant shot making dribbling is back Hashtag. Curly Neal and Hashtag Marcus. Haynes taught me how to dribble Hashtag globetrotters. That's it for the week. Everyone thanks for listening. Our producers are Caitlyn plummer. Chris Eagle and Chris Owen editing and production by senior producers Lea Hernandez and Matt strout fact checking and writing by an hurley sound design and mixing by White on Lynn. Aaron May and Joe. Richardson our theme song composed by Lindsey Graham. The executive producer of the lead is Anders Kelco. Our editorial director is me could beat the Davidson. Our Show is executive produced by Lea Hernandez Marshal. Louis An air non Lopez for wondering from wondering on the athletic. I'm could be the Davidson and I'm under SCELZO. Cnn last week.

Rick Pitino Louisville Rick basketball Patino NCAA Patino Tom Jurij Kentucky Director Rick Cathy Davidson Iona University of Louisville NBA America Celtics Iona College Knicks Seth Davis
The Return of Maui Magic, Villanova's Rough Start, and Virginia Tech's Statement Win | One Shining Podcast (Ep. 73)

One Shining Podcast with Titus and Tate

1:07:11 hr | 1 year ago

The Return of Maui Magic, Villanova's Rough Start, and Virginia Tech's Statement Win | One Shining Podcast (Ep. 73)

"Today's episode of one shiny podcast is brought to you by cheese it and Pringles the snack that we cannot get enough of here. Rearranged Q Tate, certainly cannot get enough of it. And he take him get any of it because the shipment was sent to him. And as we said before he was bullied not of his own treats your thoughts tape. It's like being back in the lunchroom. You know, so it's tough times tough days. But just getting we love you Jesus. Love you bring those just had some have lunch. So jesus. Instead, we love you so much that if you want to send another shipment to us. So this time take can actually eat his the snacks address to him. Maybe maybe maybe address them to me because I could use the ego boost, you know, like send something to me the now I like. I feel important and then that way when people steal they're not stealing from again. Because then that would just double the the problem. So and then we'll be on the same side we'd gone through something to get that we become closer else. The chemistry the pod band of brothers problem solve college whose fans being hungry for a win as good, but being just Hungary as not as much fun. So stock up on pregnant and cheese it before the game because the best way to keep the team spirit high in your home is to keep the snack. Bowl's full with Pringle Cheez. It at were doing we are here today. It is Monday. It is about three thirty on the west coast. It's Maui Monday. It's maui. Monday. Duke is currently vs week up seventeen at halftime against San Diego State. So if the unthinkable happens and the Aztecs come back, I think it was seventeen. Right. Wasn't at the halftime. Yeah. They're up like seventy eight forty nine thirty two. I think so the unthinkable happens. Do Duke loses. I guess honestly. We'll we'll probably come back and do an emergency pod. But shit. Yeah. Birthdays, very upset right now that we made him wait for due to play. But Kyle love you, buddy. College birthday happy birthday. Gift. The sarcasm using. What if what what is one realistic thing? What what do you want the fans to do for your under birthday? How would how how do the fans hope Kyle bring Shamanov back to the Maui invitational? Reiko us. What? Nope. No answer, that's other. We're going to go to Dr. Darker metric. Yes. Cool. So today, we're going to talk about the Meriva tation. Oh, we are going to talk about Villanova becoming overnight de worst program. College basketball in Jay, right? Are we sure is a good coach, I dunno infirm. And why are they not in the top twenty five wise firm and not in the top twenty five hour. We're gonna talk about Carson Edwards trying to win his way to victory in Virginia. Tech say, no, we are going to talk about all sorts of other things going on in college basketball, but mostly Molly because Maui the Maui invitational is back. And I don't just mean it's back like the schedule has come around. And it's time for the Mallory again. I mean, the motherfucking Molly vegetation is back and I'm very excited for the state. So we're going to we're going to start with Somali thoughts, and then get into the rest of it all, but I what he Durham. All right. Invitationals underway as we speak first game out of the gate. Unbelievable game. Auburn beat Xavier and overtime. Eighty eight. Seventy nine felt like one of those games as Avery was going to pull the upset Xavier is then going to be ranked seventeenth in the next poll. All the stars were aligned. I thought Xavier was Travis deal fired up in this game on the sideline. Also, Travis steals. Very also. This is the one game where I was like both coaches just start fighting each other stop playing basketball. I would feel like it was right? You know, his nipples popping out of that white. Yes, holo. Oh my God. You could cut diamonds with those things. Because he ripped out of his wife. And if you remember Tom is over two thousand six the more pineapples on your shirt, the pineapples the better it should be made. It should be mandated that one coach and every game has to wear a Hawaiian shirt and just commit to the bit. And that coach has to be Mike Bray, even if even if Notre Dame's not in the tournament, the fly, Mike brain for the month in Chicago. Wearing Hawaiian shirts. There every game. The Notre Dame plays during feast week. Mike Bray has to wear Hawaiian shirt that should be the mandate. So Xavier to borrow word. From is a Bilisam uses the word out physical. How who basically everybody did say everyone sports media every? I feel Xavier was more physical in this game. It was very very physical game Xavier's more physical. Auburn was more skilled in Auburn made shots, and that's ultimately came down to it generally, see, much Auburn basketball. You know, we boycotted them last year because the Bruce Pearl and all that sort of stuff. And now we we are back and we were watching. Well, kyle. I was just base. It was it was background noise for me. But I did learn that Auburn is deep Almer can hit threes in Auburn is a good team. And if I'm Duke, my would our to play Auburn because you know, like Jay Bilas said in the broadcast if you do make shots, you can win games. Also, he did this thing where he was like I love him as a player, which is one of my favorite day. You don't like him personally. I love you is an announcer. Let's talk about this for a second that the Maui invitational is part of what makes it awesome is beyond. The the the grade games that happen because a lot of the good teams get out there. And this year's field has absolutely loaded. A part of what makes the viewing experience so fun Jay Bilas sponsored segments. Yes. That's what it is is talking about like players getting paid while wearing like he's going to have a love fig Newton sticker on his shirt. And like this is not a sponsor Maui. Jim sunglasses that cost eight hundred dollars for that's the Larry's it's going to be as life. Oh, it's awesome. But but then all series that is part of the the point is going to make is that. These guys the broadcasters are so relaxed and just across the board and not broadcasters, but the whole broadcast like it's one thing that like Bill Walton's relaxed every game he calls, but then the people around and try to keep it tight the cameras like trying to be focused on the right things. Everyone involved in the broadcast at ESPN is just like, let's have some fun with this thing. And then you just get some wild shit like. You're cutting out a commercial and Bill Walton is giving Jay Bilas the backrub and Jay Bilas has a shirt off. And Walton is dig in his leg into Bilas is back and someone at ESPN was like, that's great. This is a great idea that. Yeah. And that's part of it is like Schulman and Bilas their bands are going on during the game is hysterical. And everyone down for like there's like if this happens in the middle of January and a conference game people that would be losing their minds on Twitter. But because it has Mallia tation people just like, this is awesome. The mutations back. It's an institution, you know, like, people know about the Maui invitational. It somehow defined seasons at times. Like, I was watching like the atom Morrison gain that a mo-. Have forty three points. Triple overtime game against Bill soft Rams Amalia was invented by Adam Morrison. Yes, they were soft, and it was totally fine. Because it was also hitting shots. And you know, it was a fun game. And you go back and you look at that. And you're like, oh while Jay Bilas is calling that game. You know, what I mean, you know, these guys have been these characters for so long that once they get there. They can just lean into it and Bill ones like here's some pineapple bread that I made. What's in it? He's like Maui wowie. It's like, dude. That's the one spot where Walton doesn't stand out though, because like wall Walden is consistently absurd. And but in Maui, like the certainty rises to his level, and that he doesn't really stand out. And you just kind of goes with the flow. And that's almost you you almost like don't want wall in the call the mala games because you want to save him for those conference games. Watch them. Watch them in twelve would wouldn't UCLA's played Oregon, and it's February the middle of February embarrassment and there's two minutes left in the game. And it's tied. And he's talking about volcano that he wrote a bike down last week says. Interrupting him even though it's a tie game with seconds left. So what a legend Maui Maui is bad as we remember last year. Phil Knight tried to kill the million petition the PK the PK. Even those birthday was in. February we had the we got the rough field of the FBI should have been dated Nike just for that. Yeah. It was it was which still stay Notre Dame was the championship. Right. And then the Notre Dame missed the tournament last year, and which state lake flamed at like, I don't know. I don't know, but the Maui bump happened. And so the question then because speaking of the Malley bump, if Duke wins, the my invitation oil, I mean, my God Tate. What does the Molly bumped look like for the most talked about team, maybe in college basketball history, Duquet, whatever in mountain ever, not once so Duke wins this year? What does the Maui bumblers like for this? Is there is there a way to be ranked like negative like they're already one? How do you jump up on the full? They're going to be ranked. You know, what it means hang the fucking banner already? They're not winning the title because every single other year, they won the Maui invitational. They didn't win the title. It's a curse. So I think case down to lose it. He's down to throw it. Okay. Okay. And he's going to let these guys lose get humbled Mon the west coast. We know coach K loses when he goes to the west coast excel hearts going west keeps going and then he's like this is not west. I'm in the light it up. Light it up in the first half. And it's because he's like halfway home to Australia. And if he's feeling good at my family. How many how many of the freshman guys like ask Jack white like if his family is going to come to this? And if it was close, and it's like oh fucking like you realize why he's still like a sixteen our plate right for the king a ruse in a way. So the Auburn beat Xavier at setting up for Auburn you have the right tone for that game. You know, it's just like dole an-. Okay. That was probably the it was excited at the cow. Got into a call you watch the last four minutes of me, we saw Jared Harper's dunk together guy. Yeah. Yeah. Jared Arbor, Jared Adler is cows guy of the Maui. First humor for sure. He amd on your Hanky MC spanky. Tell you best. So good to see him out there. This corn rose. They don't bring it up anymore. Because apparently, the staff does not like that nickname. They do not want him to be Hanky panky. So we should make sure it's free Hanky mix. Chris Mack would like that nickname. If he was coaching. Speaking of Chris Christmas, just tweeted out today ultimate flex, you know, some scowl websites like Louisville assign all top six recruits, they have the number one recruiting class in two thousand nineteen and he just says the is emoji with the point down at the tweet when he quote tweets it. Yeah. And it was just like man Chris Mack is he's feeling and I like it is emoji. Here is emojis a great way to tweet anything. Yes. You could always you feel like you could quote tweet with is emoji for anything, and we should try this. We should do a social experiment where you take like a controversial tweet. Basically, I feel like if you take any Trump tweet and just put like is emoji and nothing else and sixteen likes. Yeah. This is our and then every then you watch people fight based like people are trying to guess what you mean by the is emoji. All. All all you're literally doing is putting an is emoji. And that's all he did he did. And then you don't have to use words. Yeah. You're like I just saw that. I was saying some would be like, wow, Chris Mack. That's pretty conceded. The point to these like, I was just saying I saw it like, I don't know what you're talking. Sorry. I'm on my time line, aren't you? But then Louisville Fangio hell, lower coaches cocky. Yeah. Can interpret anyone take that count. Maybe I should do that. We should do still like, I'm. Oh, jeez. Week we're with the one shining pot account. Like, the only tweets we said or just court tweets. I'm oh, jeez. You know, what he should have done? He should've taken the Kentucky tweet. That's like, you know, coach cow is going to miss out on his top five prospects in the twenty nine hundred class and the debt did that one with the is a mode you put down after that. That'd be we need the rivalry back which back coach Cal is missing James Weisman's announcing tomorrow on. I don't know if you saw this penny. Right. Well, do you want to break the news? I almost that was part of my takes things. So I didn't want to I don't want to get accused of Jack in their Schick, but it was very very tempted to from the one shiny pod account to put breaking in all caps and then like sources confirm to. At one shiny pod. James wise administration as expected as expected James Wiseman has chosen Memphis. And then that way when he does tomorrow, we get credit for it. But then I realized like that's part of my takes on the too many times when people would get pissed off at us for especially Chris Sheridan somehow. Yeah. Lebron was going to have fifteen Miami last night. I told you that how how long would it take for Chris Vernon to call us? If we like who's your source? Hey, man, penny ain't called me back who you talking to Connolly. I was I was I was a top golf of Kali vertigo those. He was he was talking to me about it. Oh, his hair. Do I don't know. If you saw this the with the back to the thing during during the savior Auburn game. They were obviously talking about do because why this as as j will said the halftime, but the three days stories in basketball at the warriors losing four or five which I mean, I didn't know that was the number one story. The number two story in basketball, right? Is LeBron James James? That was a great mean for him. And no does that kid get any of that money. Oh, no. That's a great bit still. Every time that kid paid in the third one was just Duke. It wasn't like basketball Duke Duke, as the brand do it wasn't like a specific thing. It wasn't like the way Duke be Kentucky. It wasn't uses. Like, unlike Seth Greenberg was definitely good out like not paying attention. Then you just heard like Duke is like, what do you think? Is it? The Winston talk about Auburn Seth greenberg's watching the highlights of Virginia Tech PD Purdue it has its Hello darkness, my old friend. You go into the tournament. Thanks to your. And you're not. So they're talking about Duke during the Xavier. Auburn game. That's already forgot exactly. What's working you're taking the right tone to this whole thing? So there's only about Duke, and they showed Zion on the beach Maui with his shirt off. Yes, I did. See this. You see this? I tweeted someone footage. Now, the question becomes an and I I don't know. This is something to consider is is he fat? Video and the debate rages on is the point. I think I don't know. He was just willing in the ocean. There's one point where he. Excels his stomach tightens. He doesn't look that. When he inhales though, however when he inhales the belly sticks out further than the PECS that feels like a fat. I don't know. It was very interesting. I retweeted it the the footage. And I don't know just it's it's got me very curious because you think people in zion's camp, they think we're going in fashioning did do you think they believe that someone definitely thinks for fashion him seriously? But I don't know if it's someone in his can I think, I don't know. I don't. I don't know what to think about any of it. Here's the number one. Yeah. It's it's one thing if we're doing this because because then the do game starts and they show Zion. Doing Zion things and his fucking shoulders the veins on his shoulders are just popping out. Like, I mean, I I can't tell what popped out further today like zion's veins on his shoulders or Bruce Pearl's nipples. Well, there that's so I'm I'm waiting to do this twenty five in the championship. And then at that point game on, but he's got the vascular arms, but then the belly. Like the. I don't know that this is going to help me for the rest of the next. I don't know. Can we figure that out to answer that question? The question for me would the fab five or Duke if they played each other would a t would one team win and one team lose. Would it be tie? What do you think? Folks, we'd beat him by forty Jalen rose. Here's here's the thing. I want to say, oh, speaking of Jalen world over the place. I tell you know, it's green show. I was so mad Jones Dougie sports radio tweets today. The James Wiseman is making his decision tomorrow. And immediately Kentucky fans know that. This is not look good for Kentucky for those of us. Who are listening to the pod? You don't really know much about what's going on here. James Wiseman number one recruit in the country next year. Sort of was Kentucky, lean probably. Yes. I doubt he's going to go to Kentucky. The penny gets the job of Memphis. He's he's kid is from Memphis. He's tied with penny. So the writing's on the wall the kids go into Memphis. So mad Jones tweets this that the decision is coming tomorrow. Everyone knows it's going to be Memphis and Kentucky fans are in a reply saying like we gotta do some get Tony Barbee outta here. He's not he's not getting the job done recruiting bring back coach. Oh, bring order. That's a good. I work all of. Oh, orlando. What's his name Antigua? Yeah. Yeah. The guy that used to be the then you went to like, southern Florida. I think in the one that helps with towns, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they're like bring him to the Dominican Republic that John cale period. He told he told Cal what to say when Cal took over the the Dominican job and cows like just read off a sheet. I always cared about Dominican. Interested coaching this day? This is a great opportunity. So the fans anyway, I saw multiple tweets were they said bring back coach, oh or get Jalen rose. And I saw multiple people say this date and by multiple too. But that is technically multiple, and I started thinking, and so I started searching like is this a real thing? And it's I don't think it is. But just the fact that Jalen 's name is getting brought up is like the number ten. Basically the backdrop it's like how do we be penny in his own game. We'll bring Jalen. Again, I don't mean to give power to people with twelve followers on Twitter. Healy ideas, I want to one five stars. That's how they're up in arms. There's like I don't know if I'm going to miss Jalen is not gonna take over it Kentucky. We know that because he's too busy going on ESPN just rewriting history about how good the fep five was. Reminding people that they won four the counter here. Yeah. The four straight national titles before they actually John wooden call them the greatest team you've ever seen two of them red-shirted and then won the title in their fifth year. Actually. Yeah. It was incredible warranted. The logo to be the five. Oh, wait. That's not. Right. The actually never won the big ten. They never even won the big ten at all. Well, it's your staying. They also went in there to turn of it runs at three overtime games. So they were kind of looking at this. Michigan's team this year is awesome. Yeah. They're great. No, no, no. Got them playing good defense like a fucking sixty freshman with totally beat this do team. No question about. And there's no question about it. They couldn't even beat the Duke team of ninety two. How are they going to beat the Duke team and twenty? Anyway, what what else are we going straight Jones is better than Bob Hurley, well Cobb clip that coach early jers speaking. It's Hurley yes, Dan, did what is up, Dan? What is going on man? He is a loose cannon right now. We were very excited to see him get excited about beating Syracuse freak out. So I said the common I made it was like all these coaches that get animated on the sidelines. I love it. I I love that. They get animated. I don't necessarily want that for my team. But as a casual viewer, I love it because you get the we we sold from Dan Hurley on back to back nights night one. It's like, this is why it's awesome. When it's working because he's just like dappling up his players and chest bumping him. That's just hilarious to see. He's definitely going to bump a player this year after game his shot, and Dan who is gonna like chest bump them down. And then people are going to go crazy. Then the very next night. We get the bad side of that. And he gets tossed. But don't you feel like you can't feel like he had to live up to the hype yet, you know, he was like acting or does he go from here? I don't know what I mean, you can start at one hundred fifteen because then when you lose a game, and you don't care they're going to do Jim behind say coach states like you don't know me, you don't know, Dan and just goes back, Adam hopefully that happens. I mean, he's an interesting character right now, he's trying to be a character. I think which is a slippery slope. It is it is definitely liberty. So where where did this discussion start Maui? Yes. What else? Do we need to talk about with Molly? No Shamanov this year. Thirty four years. We didn't have shown not. So this is all D one programs. We got Arizona in there. Which is a very interesting team as interesting way under the radar say, they're blip or a bomb. They are a blip unless you were in the military, and then I guess that they were embalmed. Can we could talk about the military Furman? We're going to get the Villanova. Just I'm just going to say does it teas we're gonna talk about the military later, so firm and coach K knew this was the year of the military. Never forget and back to areas ought to be an attorney. How are they going to wonder the radar and Shawn Miller basically downplayed the entire season? He's like we lost all of our town two players. So we'll see what happens. Well, speaking to Shawn Miller in the Maui thing another great thing about Molly is you get those coaches the coaches press conference before the tournament starts in this happened yesterday. And they all put on the the Mao the the Hawaiian shirts they got their lays on and then they have to put on the Maui. Jim sunglasses. Like contractually obligated to put them on whatever. Now for profit amateur sports. But they're contractually obligated. The kids selling sunglasses on the beach. This is an incident come here. How many FBI agents are on the island of Maui as we speak. A lot just like hiding in the Bush waiting to see. Well, they're just some vacation. They're like son of a bid. It work follows me everywhere. They're hiding in the bushes. Deceive camera dishes, sell it as Maui classes. Run out of the bushes. A tackle him on the beach. But I saw a picture. I don't know if you saw this. Did you see this you hear about this? The the the role of coaches at the press conference, and like Mark view and coach K or lead are it's it's K then Shawn Miller, and then Mark view, and Mark view and coach K or like leaning over talking to each other. And Shawn Miller does have the Hello darkness mild friend look on his face. You just says thousand yard stare, and I it wasn't. It wasn't a good enough. Crop picture to become me more the but it was close, and it made me think of the Tom Crean. You remember the Tom green? Sheriff completely gassed what do I do? This looks like everything I've done. It was done early after. He's your four Danieli got it after game two. Yeah. He he looks like a man out of answers. Yes. Like, yeah. Anyway, it was funny because I'm sure it was just wanted. I mean, like the picture was out of context. It was probably like a moment of time of Shawn Miller had to blame look on his face. But but just the the funny part of wearing a Hawaiian shirt and wearing the lay in did the whole thing is hysterical. And that's why we love the million Mark view and coach K back there and code keys. Can you believe he's on a phone paying a hundred thousand dollars Murphy's like yeah? I cannot believe that that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of why don't you just fly to Japan and recruit kids what if they were talking about what if what if k was like Lynn Nova, Mark you have. Yeah. He's like what did you kill? You turns around and never looks back. He's like, oh my God. Now, he's like, Mark. You went to the final four for the first time a couple of years ago. How was that? And then March like, it was awesome. And then they start talking about funnel four stories and Shawn Miller is this league kill me. Now. He's like, how do I get Gonzaga job? He pulls out his phone speed. Dial Tony Bennett. Tony they're doing it again. Searched. They're being jerks about it. Yes. I know they're the worst. What's your favorite? Molly memory, Carolina's one a lot out there. Right. So that a Carolina it's gotta be a careless two thousand five thousand nine I think my favorite game was when they were there. I think this is two thousand seven maybe and they played Luke Hern goaty, and it was hands Rovers haring goaty. And this is the time in college basketball where one and done was happening every great people like that freshman, it would have been hearing and his freshman year too. And it was. It might have been it could have been it would have been away because then they wanted to title, no, nine right? Yeah. Carolina, though, eight don't they played hair and goatee that year, and it was just the the best package leading into a game. I'd ever seen because you got like Blake Griffin's talk of the town. We're talking about the UCLA Darren collison and Kevin love, and then it's like tonight the tar heels lead by Tyler him in like a turnaround athletic and is like. And is like and the Irish would Lou Gehrig and goaty battle of the big man tonight. Tonight in Maui. It is just like those guys. It was like the lamest like was like an easy. Layup of a great Baz, and it was answer like doing the stupid turn around and run Ellen court. And I was like man can they please show tiles college facts? We love it. I think that a Morrison is the greatest thing though. I watched that with my family over thanksgiving. Just like who is this guy his forty three points. He hasn't missed the free throw in eighteen years. I've told so many like my childhood of watching college basketball was thin hoosiers up until item Morrison, and then it became Adam Morrison and Adam Morrison was like all of religion for me. It does identified. I've I've talked we've talked. I've talked about him on the podcast thousand fucking times. He invented streaming sports and my family and the concept of watching a game on an internet connection. Never cry like, a it was foreign in two thousand five two thousand six and then they wanted to show Adam Morrison gay ESPN, and we're trying to watch I would sit there like I'm watching Gonzaga place Santa Clara joke. Kids twelve thirty AM on a school night, and I'm watching Gonzaga planes Santa Clara on fuzzy Bonder my living room because I just wonder watch Ed Morrison. I I love that. I grew up my hair in highschool play basketball, just because of Morrison I grew up my mustache at one point. My brother had a trash dash and the long hair. Yeah. It was great everyone wanted to look at it through. That's why also kind of liked Rashad McCann's to you. Because like he was a malcontent that just was don't. It was great. Yeah. You just don't like he just misunderstood guys. Like if you just got took the time to get to know him. And I I was felt like I was that guy that was that was the bad boys that identified with the the guys discount a. Yeah, you ever shot McCann's is still one of my favorite Carolina players same with Joe forte, Rasheed Wallace. I like to all the people that were system that listen. But there were this some bullshit. Yeah. I remember I have Morrison it was like super enlightened as well. Like when he was in college news writing like religion is a scam or so she'll doomsday prepar now. Yeah. So it all. So. Whiteboard that they would like because I read every article has ever written about the guy, and he let he wrote the religion is the opiate of the masses thing, and you know, I'm I'm I'm eighteen years old. And I'm going to church every Sunday. And I was like whoa never thought about that way. Head of Moore's than Satan. He's raised some question things. Yeah. Adam Morrison's, the devil. No, JJ ready. So. Yeah. Morrison the Maui thing I I don't know. I'll never forget that as long as I live forty three point three points fourteen for twenty eight he made like twenty free throws in the game. And it was a triple overtime game. So what does Maui being back? And again to reiterate for those that don't know why we keep saying now, he's back is the PK you've ruined to last year this year. They got we got Duke. We got Auburn is ranked eighth in the country. We have Gonzaga Duke is probably verse swimming that dukes going to be San Diego State. They're probably gonna play Auburn tomorrow. We have a top ten matchup their coins, whoever wins that he's gonna play probably zag in the championship. It's insane. Great field. But what does that and then shaman odds out? So a lot of people are really upset about that. But it actually makes the filled stronger for being and they're back next year. They do the. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah of, but what does that mean for the the battle for Atlanta because it for few years, they're Atlantis had become the thing. And I feel like I haven't heard about it Lena's at all in the lead up to Williams that are in Atlanta's are not covered by the mass media. Who is the fact get Florida without looking pulled up already know, why just looked at it. Okay. But I know Virginia and Florida in it, right? Those are the two teams that everyone's like, okay. That matters. And then the national player, I honest to God don't know a single team until you said who's in battlefield Lantis. The nap. Hold on. Add to this podcast because the SPN is going to tell you that RJ Barrett had a Turkey sandwich for lunch today. And it didn't sit well on his stomach, and we're going to tell you buzz cut Brad is in the Bahamas right now. Hold handling at the casinos. Hang on. Yes. Let me grab a towel before you answer this question. But are Wisconsin in Virginia on opposite sides of the bracket? Yes. And they might meet in the championship. Yes. That is when the racist sixty nine turns to the race to forty five. Oh, it's going to be so good. Oh, so good. If you love defense, and you love triple threat position than you love, Chris Chris passes, crisp then you will like that game. Now, suddenly, it makes complete sense. Why I've not heard about the battlefield Lantis nettle is because it might be Wisconsin Virginia and the bow like whoever runs about battle for Atlanta says like who the fuck that like your fire drill fire? Get out of here you're supposed to bring it up. And then he just heard Duke, and he was so shipped by that. He was just like. Yeah. In about Duke. I mean, let me just tell you about RG Barrett. Apparently not feeling well today. So oh, God that's going to be you. And I might be the only to watch I game Wisconsin Virginia. So if Wisconsin Virginia plan at the exact same time is due Gonzaga. We're watching for sure and we'll check Twitter for all the Duke content. Oh, I know. I'll see it. Yeah. We'll we'll come back around and sit trade Jones was playing really well trae Jones. Trey Jones most important freshman on do. I think there's gonna be a moment. And it might even be this game. Again, we don't know how I don't know this game's going gonna end the that's going on right now. They're gonna be a couple of games this year where the team playing Duke is going to say, let's make trade Jones beat us. And then trade Jones is gonna say cool. I'm quitting time. She bitch all these other guys down here. So now, I'm going to take all the show. I think he's gonna win them like two or three games. Just like he's gonna go absolutely nuts. But he's gonna he's gonna average like ten points a game. But he's going to have a career high of like thirty two points because one game he's just going to be left open, and he's just gonna be laughing his ass. He's gonna hit a bunch of threes in. How do you stop, dude? Coming off. Yeah. Coming up pick and rolls and just taking it to the whole because no one wants to actually hedge on him. And they just forgot that. He's really good. My one thing I do like about Duke. And what case doing is? He at least is going deep in the bench from what I've seen. And I like the idea that Alex O'Connell can win six man of the year in the ACC. He's going to win six man of the year because cable jacket white is going to win six out of there. Jack, white will be a starter. I I I don't know if you're joking that he's perfect. If you if you played the best when he was out the barriers. Ducas trying to put their five best players. They're definitely putting Jack white out there with the four freshmen because you've got to be honest. You gotta have at least three guys that'll die for a ball on the floor at all times. So RJ's not diving Cam's, not dive in zion's diving trays. We'll fight anyone who does pass my white guy test where you want. Although Jack, White's probably too good. That's a concern. My my my my white guy test is you want all the all the best teams. And again, this is this is obviously pulling this out of my ass. But my theory is you want to white guys on your team, you won't one guy to be the designated shooter. You won't one guy to be the designated junk. That's the screens and grabs boards and sets the picks. And I guess that said he'd screens does all the junk shit the checks. X-factor? Yeah. Yeah. Sutan? Yeah. The gore on Sutan. I learned I learned that you know, he's probably not is not that upset with Nick word when he goes back and watch Sutan, you know, that's from watching that. Oh, six game. Yeah. So do does pass that test. But Jack white isn't just a screen. So that's that's concerned chemistry problems on do. You're going to have O'Connell and wider gonna Butthead. You'd be like you're supposed to be the dirty work guy. I'm the score. No. No, no. You're the dirty work guy. I'm the score. Yeah. Alex O'Connell listening. He's like. Look at this shooting sleep that they're arguing RJ beards shooting. Just throw another. All right. We were burying the lead. I think because the lead despite what Jay Williams thinks about how do the warriors. Yeah. It's a lot lot of turmoil. Real the real lead in college basketball right now is that Villanova the wheels have completely fallen off. Jay Wright is no longer handsome dick to the five stars. Yeah. He he he dance with the devil. And he's losing right now and his name was devan early. Yeah. And it hasn't worked out yet. Von Quinn early. Jalen brunson. This has been great for the Brunson has been nice to day two days three days. After Jay riot publicly says that quarterly might be the best point guard he's ever coached. And and then brings up Kyle, Lowry and fails to mention Jalen Brunson. Two days after he says this quarterly gets a D N P against Furman and Villanova loses in overtime at home to ferment. There was precedent in this game. Okay. I channel to the armed forces the firm and team great for them. I mean, you get. Do you support the troops? Yes. You personally do best scoring offense the country Mark Titus troops as well. Another team with the troops. The citadel great great here for the troops. I mean, there's a tweet army should've won that game. We all know coach case thrown into this mix. Sure to say one shining podcast supports the troops. We have logos of all the armed services branches. You had the t shirt firm. I t shirt. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's the the theme of amateur sports. You just make the shit. You're exploiting the schools. Who cares? We're making the money. And I do love fig news. Yeah. That is for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I also support the troops firm. It is. So are you saying the story of this game? Is that Furman is good? I've no they played Villanova twice ever the last time. They played them. Guess what went to overtime guess what they lost? Oh. But still thought it was cool. Just kidding. But what if they would have one? Oh, yeah. That'd be awesome. But firm it was really cool in this game. This is a great seen already had the the wind that dunk at the end with with mounts is a nice like flip on bounce with mounts and then hunters great for them. They're just a fun team. And that's what I'm talking about South Carolina. So they're Greenville South Carolina, which is a nice bumper, South Carolina. Brian Bowen is filing a case against the FBI. I wanna to talk about that later. So a lot of stuff happening South Carolina's. That's great for them. And then I just want to say looking at Villanova team. It's a lot of burden on Phil biz. He's having to do a lot was he sitting shots in his game. Coming down hit and pull up threes taking the lead and then hundred comes down hits three to answer. And then from there, it just seemed like they had no answer. I don't know pass goal is just not as he's not a number one guy. That's the on a number one guy. They can't get anyone open their taking deep threes there shooting. Thirty two percent from three I think like American forty last America get you get too comfortable. And and with with Jay writes machine that he builds that this the team they have a team that team is good. We play. The right words the. Yeah, they play the right way. Exactly. Yes. They lose the best two players or something next guy steps up the next year. He's good. And it's just this this conveyor belt of talent by the time. The guys become juniors and seniors they're great and the readily because that's what ours do. Yeah. That's how it all works. And you forget that it doesn't always. Work that way. And every so often like especially with five years if it was really that easy. Everyone would be doing that. And they're not and sometimes yes, sometimes like get Pasco's looking around like dude, I love my role in the team last year, we go back to that. Why do I have to seventh man that mattered? So I could open shots. What does this about? I will say though like Villanova is shooting a ton of threes. And this is also they're missing a ton of threes. And you have to make shots in this game. I I don't know why we don't have that t-shirt Kyle already. But I've said this for years gotta make shots in this game. But it is kind of interesting to to think that. I guess like the warrior everything that's going on in the NBA trickles down to college. It always has. Right. And so the warriors the podcast, Jay Williams. Right. So you got the warriors. They hit all these threes. And then people are I mean, the stat nerds look at that. And they're like obvious and Villanova is losing these games to match the warriors. So they can compare like we're also struggling the porno wanna make this state that you can't just, you know, like, the stats always say shoot more threes. Like, that's where the game is going and all that. And we forget Maury, biology kids or kids who came up with it. But Tina invented. Billy Donovan the guys aren't as good like the warriors can get away with it because they are good enough to consistently hit threes. I know exactly what. Steph curry plays. They're always gonna hit their three. But in college you have these nights where you just don't hit shit. And this is this was always the concerns like when Villanova was was choking, and then say tournament, this was the concern that I had America had all that is like when you rely that much on three and why people always the idiom of leg three points. You Charles Barkley was yelling that when when Golden State was going to win their first title jump shooting teams can't win titles all that shit because there is some truth to that. When you get teams that aren't super elite talented, you do have that happen. But wise villanovan always been good because they have the dribble drive, and they have a and beat their man off the dribble. Gillespie can't do that quarterly playing. Phil Ruth is a perimeter guy. Coffee. Roundtree is like this weird, you know, hybrid in between three and four guy that really good point doesn't have a he's not going to post up on the block Pasco just goes in the corner and shoots threes. So they have no basically, they need someone to drive to kick. But there's no one in the middle. That helped us a great point. I think think the success of Villanova's had has been oversimplified to just shoot threes and make them. Yeah. And they're open shots. The reason they get open is because of all the other. He kicks Evenson Zo divas pump fake. So it was at one more whoever's Medicare. Bridges, whoever and they hit the three and we're like what a beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And that's how different it's one little subtle thing. And I think it's own Gillespie. Like, I I can see that. There is a little like not that he just has to be hits to do more. Like he is the point guard. Yeah. Like, you're supposed to be a stopgap. I think and now it's like no you have to be archdeacon notes. So are are we concerned about Villanova? No, no. Can I what if I said, I was do you think of crazy because I don't know how. But what is like what is the? I mean, what do we do? We expect them to be the number one team. I guess. What does the expectation because Villanova's a five seed in the tournament and they're scary five seed? That's that that's sorta to me is a good year. I mean we've seen teams win titles. Did not make the tournament. I'm ki. Yeah. True. I'm concerned in that sense. I I you bring up a good point. I'm concerned in the of lake. I'm definitely out on Phil Nova. Oh, yeah. They're not. They're not for being a whatever it's like contender. Not as sexy. Nice that we got exposed early to it. Yeah. And what is over that arena? Because it might be cursed. Ooh. That's a good point. I mean, th they renovated that is our fault. Like, I was hammered at all. I was why do they play in the wolves Fargo center, but these games back on campus? And then they're like, okay, cool. We'll do that. And then whoops. And they're kind of going to miss out because the Sixers could make the finals, or you know, or at least be late in the play offs. And they could have been playing in the same building the whole year and have a nice little run. So the hang over your village is Philly as a whole just having the hang over here with the Yugo says, well, maybe that's maybe should we blame. Doug peterson. Always having a hangover. You're there you go. By the way, Villanova Phil from wherever they ranked eighth. Yes. Out of the ring. I don't know if you've noticed this zero biggies teams in the top twenty five and the poll that came out this morning, and they had to once as last year people forget that zero who wants aids two zero ranked zero ranked teams it's got Chris mad not only first of all not only new big east teams rain zero new. I actually went through I looked. There are no old big east teams. Even the even the teams that were the big east. Syracuse isn't currently ranked Georgetown Georgetown's in the newbie says, well like uconn does not ranked Cincinnati is not ranked Dan Hurley's in. Hey, how's it got? Really? Yes. So this is basically what I'm saying is is the the old big east legacies is. Yeah, I don't know. It's tough. It's tough very tough. Smullen when you need it. You remember the picky? So I know did you see the the foul of the guy yet you had to see everyone celebrated the kid the through elbow and hit the guy in the face. You know, what I missed the in IT Invitatinal being the most fun in New York like the preseason invitational. Oh, yeah. Was that was a big. I mean Maui wants to. But is that one going on? Yeah. That's so we don't know about that one either. I think we know that it's called pull up who's playing in that one the preseason. I I wanna throw at the Cobb. I've been listening to Rogan podcast more recently. I don't know. The. Jamie pull that shit. Jamie. I heard about this chimpanzee that that they taught how to use automatic weapons, and he robbed the gestation dealer night. Pull this shit up. That's much here. It is Kansas Marquette. Oh, you pulled it up to Tennessee Louisville. Marquette, tennessee. What what great? Yes. Wednesday night can't everything. Do exactly do because this wallowed. Yes. Absolutely everything. A commercial? Yeah. You think you're watching sports channel it is. It do commercial. That's unbelievable. But the plane that everything's an ad that's Wednesday Thursday Friday or Wednesday Thursday in Wednesday Thursday Wednesday Thursday in nice. That'd be good day before thanksgiving or is it Tuesday one in the night after. Yes. So friday. Yes. Well, we figured that out. Nice. Nice Marquette without that would be awesome for the old big east of Marquette could win Joe in in Madison Square Garden. Yes. No, no big east teams. But there are six big ten teams. Big ten is good did their six ACC teams. Right. Six ACC teams in the top sixteen. I think Regina tech probably made. The biggest statement that we can't we can't talk about your victim to be homers fair. I wish we could talk about how about how half the rank teams in the country are big. But the, but it's homers. You know, they're obviously, not the best conferences. We just talk about them because we're Homer. So we Indiana, by the way. Listen, what is going on this? What's happening? They got. No, I'm yeah. I'm asking like, I'm no, I'm I'm on your side. So can we make this point to Indian a play? I mean, you got lost at Arkansas Gifford is in. But that was a close game. Arkansas is great at home. My problem is this is like if that ball, bounces we sell the last play the runner bound the hangs on the rim doesn't go in and the tip in doesn't go in and the rebound gets fouled questionable. Calm. Not gonna who is shit. It's november. I'm not going to lose my mind and say the hoosiers, Dan earlier. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't really matter second. But you know, it was it was probably not the best in the world. But whatever. But the the the the frustration is at you're absolutely right Tate is if the ball bounces two inches the other way, suddenly people are like damn Indiana might be like what seventeenth best team. And are you saying it's a game of inches? It is a game of inches. Well, yeah. I just love the the the the polling decisions that are made like like Michigan beats the hell out of Villanova. Right. And Michigan shoots up the rankings. And then Villanova shoots down. The and it's like, so Villanova sucks. Then Michigan beating Villanova isn't really that good of a win. And they can't on the left chest. I said Michigan winning Villanova would be the biggest of the season. And now, I would like to say Furman Villanova at home was if it's like Michigan shoots up maybe Villanova of Furman doesn't get ranked when they be basically everyone's making it up as they go, and that's kind of funny. I don't really care either way. But I also do care because we're talking about right now. But do, you know, the mascot of the citadel now the citadel affirmative too many? The it's like has something to do with Aladdin, right? Like, the the poo poo Laden's or some close not a lead a real person. What Charlemagne the great the father of Europe? Those are his people like on his council. What are you thinking to myself? What what's the answer? It's the pallets. Allen's. Yes. So I'm thinking about this. This is how I'm going to South Carolina. They beat on the map. There was about Brian Bowen. So you got Charlemagne that's his court. You know, the father of your those? That's what he calls them there in South Carolina that I'm thinking to myself Bill Simmons podcast, showing me God, also from South Carolina. Whoa. Is charlemagne. The great the father of South Carolina's goes all the way to the time goes over the holy ships. You need to take a break to to get ready for Brian Bowen digest what you just. Yes through it may we'll take a break. We'll come back. We'll talk about Brian bone. We'll talk about various other things that are gonna come up. First. This break. Quick break to get away. 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My phone got on seatgeek looked up tickets for tomorrow's Duke versus Auburn game in the Malaya of intentional. How much you think it's going to cost you to get to the gym for the Duke Auburn game tomorrow selling your support into according to seek close enough. It is five thousand five hundred ninety five dollars. And she says that's a good deal. So. What did you do with all that money? Do they just like laugh and throw it in the air? Oh is this is a VIP? Course. I don't know K. That's the general admission. I don't know. But this is that's what that's what my app tells me. So that's for the do fans. This is pretty cheap. But yeah, listen, it's still the best deal because it seeks. Thank you see gig festival. Our listeners get twenty dollars out there. I e purchase download the key cabinet promo code. Oh SP today. That's promo code. Oh SP for twenty dollars off your first seatgeek purchase Seekie license event. We had the tickets back to one China pockets. All right. We are back Tate. Live breaking news. I want to break this on the podcast. Jeff Goodman, our good friend, and by good friend of mine you and I've a good, man. He's a good, man. We while we were away while we were recording the podcast. Jeff Goodman, quote tweeted, my tweet talking about Zion being fat. And and he said if that's fat I wanna be so damn fat. So it feels like Jeff Goodman falls on the side of Zion not being fat. And we know Jeff Goodman, Duffey nominee almost one. The Duffy for excellence in journalism last year for his work and travelling to Lithuania for for like seven weeks someone asked Jeff how far are you willing to go for this job? Yeah. And he said Lithuania. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a I think this is this might be our biggest way in no pun intended on the is. I n Williamson fat, right? This might be the biggest as a company, man. I thought Jason Concepcion was the biggest name as he officially declared. What who's declared has has? I don't know. Picked a side who what do you mean he which like he hasn't picked Zion wetter cloud to look at so decide so there's a debate going on Tate. I don't know if you're wearing I'll get you up to speed assign. Williamson fat question. Yes. Fat farm page. Jeff Goodman is saying he's not fat and Concepcion has not declared that aside. I'm waiting for it. All right. I'm waiting to the definitive. I think I think this is the good. Yes. So this resume stand right now. This is the biggest answer. And that's why I brought it up because there's been people leave until we hear from Guinea. Yeah. We're just going to keep raising the bar, but the bar is now set at Jeff Goodman, and let's see if we can get someone higher than that too. And to be honest. I want him to be fed for icon status. You know, like kids I Williamson do for fat. People would Clyde Drexler did for bald people where he had the male Potter like Jordan was a coward Jordan shave the dome. Jordan said I can't be caught with male pattern. Baldness? I'm to just go all the way, but Clyde Drexler go that should out and he'd have the horseshoe. Gone and bald people everywhere is sue. I don't know. I wasn't Georgia choice. I think he would be meeting and their shave CLYDE, Clive grow shit out. It'd be like, yo I'm bald. They'll still game on you and help you were like, yes or guy can you'll never win a title ran away. And that could be signed for fat people. That's why people should want him to be because then you can be like that's our guy as a fat, man. I love this guy. I don't know. I think so I think he could be an icon moved on to more important things. Virginia Tech beach Purdue in the Charleston classic is that what it is. There's a lot of classics going around again, Charleston, South Carolina. We're back. There's also like to South Carolina. Classic. It's like lot lots going down to bring Martin territory and all he wanted was. I n to come and play in it. That's it come on. In all honesty, did Zion South Carolina over should've gone to Clemson firms, and it was the plano firm. And that was the play. I he goes military people love him forever. I still still doesn't look right to see him firm and people say thank you for your service. Virginia Tech beats Purdue eighty nine hundred three this was a game that Sean farnum is on the call. I forget who was calling the game with I watched the whole thing and Sean farnum had he had to fan himself and and get a cold cloth over his neck at all times. Like this, man. They busted out the this feels like an elite eight game. And they must have said that thirty times throughout the broadcast. And my dad who you know, he he's he's become a character on the show. We know that he's a Hoosier. My dad texted me like a thousand times he's like if this guy thinks that this that produce is going to be in the elite eight this year. He's got to get out. You know, your poor mother at their polling for please stop saying that. But it was it was driving me nuts because I was like keeping your pants, Sean. I mean, it's a good game. It's not you know, what happened is people get so excited at the start of the year that when they see a good game. They think that good game earlier you listening. They think that good game means to tighten teams that are going to compete for national title. Kentucky and Dugan. The chain. Exactly. That was fun. So th they kept busting that out. They got so excited. It was the the kept like doing the they did the move where there's twelve minutes left in the like, oh my God so much action and they're still twelve minutes left. And then there's a dead ball. And there's like folks thinking about all that we've seen so far there's still nine and a half minutes left. And there's you know, what's happening. I think is that everyone on these broadcasts are running out of the catchphrases. They're running out of things to say. So they're continuing to just is all in the same circle of, you know, it's like, I don't know. Thank you out. There are you know, whatever. And they're also going to say you gotta make shots, you know, whatever it's getting cold out there. But the action see nothing side said it's almost time for that. I'm so excited lighter. And it's Bill Walton joint. You're like what is he's on ESPN? It's usually a mid December lines when one starts coming out. Yeah. It's January sues we're getting conference flex its freezing. Balls in Columbia, but inside the shot and Stein center. The action is heating up. Just the picture Boston College is just know everywhere. Can you guys promise me the friends of the program listening? Can you promise me if you ever see this on TV, that's my favorite line in all of commentating, my favorite cliche that they do if you're watching a game. And they say that please tweeted at me, I will I guarantee your re tweet. That's the one thing. I will always guarantee re tweets of his it's conclusive. I I think. He's probably minus two fifty. Cheek this year. So Virginia Tech Purdue in a what what many people by many people? I mean shown phone calling the game of the century. This was a game that I I actually was really impressive Virginia Tech. They played. Really? Well, Carson was also I came away saying like God damn Carson Edwards is deserving. Not that I did notice already, but he's deserving of every piece of praises ever gotten his life guys. Incredible. He's gonna he's basically produce entire team. How jealous was magnificent? When he saw that dunk. Yeah. Oh, the left hand is. I love that the the John wall. Like, what is that? It's nice. But what a move because I mean, people people don't expect it to happen, especially when you're writing that's some you obviously pre like what point in your life. Do you decide I'm going to be left handed dunker when you're doing the Mike and drill? And you're an eight hundred eighty junk every time you're like. Yeah. Lift you're like, wow, I jump higher. This is weird. It just seems so weird 'cause cars this that's a state like he doesn't throw it out right handed like that. And he only does it left handed in John wall. Did the same thing a Kentucky. And I don't know. Did you feel like some the has to be conscious decision when John wall made a conscious choice? Yeah. He was like this is going to be dope decide left handed. You wanna be a switch hitter. Yeah. It's just unnatural like no one grows up in baseball as a switch. You know, you have to make a decision like a natural. Switch it or you just like decide I'm going to be a switch. It's the same sort of thing. It's like I want to be lefthanded dunker just for fun. Just for just because it'd be fun. Anyway, I came away from this game saying Carson Edwards. Everybody's good. As advertised. We already knew that though at Virginia Tech, also very very good. I was very impressed with Virginia Tech's balance Zander Walker of the Alexander family, not the Alexander the great, but just of the shake yoga's Alexander family. And I think he's the one that I underrated on this Virginia Tech team. Just a Robinson is one. We're all gonna talk about sort of basically Carson Edwards Virginia Tech hill. Had a great game hill and a great game. There's there's a bunch of guys in that team. Well, it kept having this year every single guy like, I don't know Justin Robinson at three. And I'm like how that's the guy that produce gotta stop. Or are they not stopping them the modern will do some? That's the guy that got us in that. I I realized like, wow. Spend it. I mean, the guy that would really matter to them. They have a lot of guys that they need to stop. That's that's a tough spot to be in their atop team. Yeah. I really do believe that they are. And I think that they have lost some kind of really they they've lost some tough games in the tournament. And now, you can see it's carried over where buzzes those guys love playing for buzz buzz is a good coach. Yeah. Probably gonna win as coach of the year. I would say so right now right now because it's just because we can't give it a Tony every year because who cares? Yeah. Tony just winks out. And maybe we can Tonio find a way this year, and he'll find a way. No decays winning. Yeah. Thank you. Coach. So what does do have to do if dukes undefeated coach, Kahlil definitely wouldn't. But if he's going to win. Yeah. They're gonna win the regular season for the first time in twenty the story. Let's give me the story line the first team to overcome the obstacles. It's so hard. We always. For back on Duke. Again. Did you see the thing? I I didn't notice this until last night. It was brought up during the broadcast. Kenny black shears left-foot thing that he does. And are you aware of this? I saw it. Yes. I watched the game. Okay. Weird. What the fuck weird? And if you didn't watch the game or even if you did because I don't know the dude it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life. He disliked does map put his left heel on the ground. That's pretty much an and you're saying, okay. So certain situations. He doesn't put his I'm saying always on the balls of his left foot the ball of his his his left leg of your all of your lesson by extension. His left leg is always do your feet at two balls. Ooh. Combined have two balls, right? Yes. Yeah. So he's always on his left ball. And he never puts his he'll down every when he's running when he's standing still when that was it's it's the game within the game. If you're ever watching Virginia Tech game this year. And you can't find yourself to care either way. Just like keep watching it just watches guys left foot and to see if it that's the upset of the this is the this is the Jalil Okafor loses. Every tip at Duke like oddity that I'm most obsessed with I don't know if you remember this when you look for is the Duke someone brought it to my attention. The man never want to jump ball the entire season. Because as we know Gelo Kuffour was fat. We did the research is so mesmerizing good basketball player. Yeah. Both so mesmerized by the thing that he'd never ever wanted to ever. And then that became like the thing. I would watch every time I'd watch who'd be like, this is my thing. Now with with Virginia is is this. He is left you'll ever going to touch her. I don't get it. It doesn't. I mean. I know he had like a foot injury. Right. So like his job. Yeah. Exactly. That is the question. It's the most bizarre thing in the world. Anyway, back to the back to the actual basketball Virginia Tech team. It's good to see. It's good to see Purdue be out in the world. That was a tough loss for them. But everyone saw them play great game. I think I think we may have underestimated Purdue I think I don't know. I like to do I think in the big ten I think here's what happened with. I personally was no matter what happens with this year. I was at hundred percent right on that eating more for harms. No, they. Purdue is is who I thought they were in the so far. It's Carson Edwards a bunch of pretty good players around him. But he needs more help. He I get the vibe that he doesn't trust his teammates. And I also don't think he's wrong to not trust his teammates because Evan Boudreau and Ryan client or your best options eastern, though. Got to play more. But when when those are like, the best pieces you have around you it's tough when you're Carson Evers. And you know, it's it's one of those things where like by by the end of January. He's going to realize that him shooting with two hands in his face is better than a lot of these guys shooting wide open and not that pretty as bad shooter. There actually have a lot of good shooters. But you get the point that it's going to be one of those things I think where he's just tries to take over. And. Yeah, it's going to be tough. It's all right. But he's good. Both my God. Is he good? Yeah. Eastern Edwards as a back court as far as getting steals getting turnovers. That's good. It was a really good game. It wasn't really really good game. But yeah, let's not a not a certainly not an elite eight game. Do we have anything else before we go? Let's just quickly on the Brian Bowen thing, basically, he we kept teasing that. We didn't talk about Brian belt line is used is from South Carolina where he was he transferred to South Carolina. Now, he's signed with a team in Australia, think ought to play professional basketball. But he is suing them for basically saying that they he will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys ruined my life over nineteen thousand dollars or maybe one hundred thousand or or was it however much organ offered I don't know who knows. But Brian Bowen going back at them and all the people that were named in the original FBI case our own he's seeking basically to have Dita's never be able to sponsor division one sports teams again. So this is going to get tossed out immediately. Yes. It's very very bolt. Let's enter tain it as though it's possible because because like. If there's a if if the case is I I don't know if it's Brian Bowen, say a Dita's ruined my life. I'm like, yes. I would agree that would be really personally damages. Yes. But he's like basically suing the saying, you can't sponsor he's trying to take sponsorship out of into that. I say you have zero chance of getting this done. This thing you get thrown out immediately. But what happens if they go to the supreme court, and then, you know, twenty years kids learning about, you know, and Versi incidental, a amateurism. Yes. Because all the way it's over. Court in Richmond Virginia. On the campus. We will now here. Marta. So let's hold on just for fun because we are responsible. And this is a podcast. It's just not tickets self seriously. What if we entertain the idea that Dita's Brian bone wins? Adidas can't sponsor anything ever again. Then. You're gonna be seen a lot of Adidas stuff. Elsewhere buses Dita's, you know, it'd be funny. If they just actually sent a truck of all the Adidas stuff, you know, like Jay Leon, James harden. They just send a truck of Adidas stuff that was what they just Brian bones house right now, they don't wanna do any legal stuff. But here's a bunch of Jesus settle. Let's settle off the metro. Yeah. While he's doing them. I don't know. It's kind of company like basically, Rick Pitino was doing what is going on his tour around the campuses is where the three stripes isn't didn't Adidas kind of ruin your life. Rick is like, no I ruined my own life. I love Adidas. That was on me. I love Adidas. Yeah. That'd be that'd be awesome. If this. I mean, it would it would suck in the sense that like Nike would then own everything and just they already do they already kind of do them. So it's ever Jay Bilas sponsored by Under Armour new kicks. He showed him on the Malthusian. Yeah. Dude. Have you noticed with Bill is that he's authored? Yeah. Have you know, well, this might tie into it? You want him to wear a NASCAR jumpsuit with all of his different sponsors on it. This might tie into it for real his I was about to say his Instagram activity is like shooting through the roof because he for the longest time he had an Instagram. Like, I did where you just kind of. It's kind of a personal. It's not personal disincentives private. It's just more of like a I'm not trying to like build a career here. I'm just trying to like here's a picture of my dog. Here's some spaghetti. I had last night just letting my family inference normalize type thing she don't really give a shit. And then I noticed like within the last whatever timeframe it's each flip that switch and he's posting more. He's putting like like today during as he's calling a game at the Maui invitational. He did I think it was Ethan half. Like, he posts a picture on Instagram of his own quote on Ethan hap-, where it's like Ethan hap is one of the best players in the country. And it's got like a graphic. And it's in quotes and says Jay Bilas, and he posted that through the thing. And then I'm also noticing. He's doing the Stephen a Smith move where ESPN will post a something on Instagram. Jay Bilas is in the comments like giving his take like. Not just well, this is tight. He's like the Jalen rose says the fed five of beat Duke. And then and then Jay Bilas is in the comments like I believe it'd be good game. I think one thing you've got to remember as Chris Webber was was supremely talented and at the at that position. He would be tough match-up for any. He's check back. Then. Right. That was in the nineties we could handshake, but he's doing this on Instagram. And I'm just I'm just very curious to me what is play. Because if because he has like, he he has like twelve thousand employees. It's not like he's active on this year. What's going on here? He's he's an ad. He's a mean, he's ability straighter back to mouse. Just keep an eye on that, folks. And go buy those new under armor, look really nice when you J J on the pod or squash. All this Jay come on the pod. And then I'll tell all call the dogs off. But until then I don't know we're trying to earn. We're trying to win the Duffin excellence in journalism. So I'm like, I'm on your Instagram. Jay Williams, put his name in the hat today by saying the three biggest stories that was awesome. What is saying is like he picked very acute things. It was like the tension with it wasn't the worst four or five specific, you know, Draymond green Kevin dot com. Read the top three stories, and like, of course, Duke was just like there as an ad, but also a story, and he's like, okay. Like, the warriors was hyper specific like this particular thing going on within the warriors the the Lakers. Lebron James scored fifty one points in a game. It was very, hyper specific. And then the third one was Duke. D you everything that's ever happened with Duke, everything that will happen all of Duke WalMart thing before we go. I want to give a shot up till the jailed Vic dropped thirty three again jumped thirty two. I think against Vermont writing minute thirty three hundred save chances ass again. Yes. The other night best player on the team. Right. Yeah. We have to forty minutes he has seven threes. Again. It's incredible. What happens when he goes one for seventeen and he gets benched in January. You don't let mean just one bad game and Bill like all right? You're done. Yeah. He has the shortest lease in college basketball. He was basically I mean. He goes he goes coach. I I know the Billy Preston story. And then he's like get back out there. It was up his jersey and say he disappears. Sure. Stares at him. They are legit. Oh my goodness. Then I wanna give a shout out to Bubba Parham on of Vietnam. We were watching a game your place yesterday. They're playing Kentucky. Dude was unconscious. It was incredible. I tweet about it that he he got me to the point and tying it back to Maui without a Morrison. Also, give me the vibes. When guys are just playing so out of their mind that you just start laughing that was my experience yesterday watching this kid when he hit the one in the corner, I think that was his tenth one. I just started cackling like, I was I don't know a schoolgirl. I was laughing so hard coach Cal tell for sixteen from the three point line to go through it early this season together, I'm happy for him because he's your bread, dude. Pretty wrong, you read sure your son. This is what you get. And I don't know. James Watson what's going to happen? James Wiseman is gonna announce and it's gonna be a video and it's going to be silent. And it's gonna be penny. Hardaway standing there with his hands together. Drake's going to come out. And he said a wise man once said nothing at all. And then it's going to be a Memphis tiger. And then his back. You heard it here. First James Wiseman to Memphis. Yes. We are. We are breaking news. This isn't a rumor this is I have sources on krizner and confirmed it has been confirmed James Wiseman will be Memphis tiger in. If for some reason, he doesn't announce Memphis tomorrow, a wise man once said nothing at all cutting anything then cut this whole part now. Yes, that's it. You got anything else for you know, let's get out of here. Let's have a guy attention. Birthday. We we're going to the darker to celebrate with Kyle. If for some reason, you find a way to listen to this within the next two hours, which how could you possibly could. Could you tell me to sit the darker, and we're going to go celebrate birthday until the let's have a great malleable tation, folks. And let's have a happy thanksgiving. We will be back later this week with another podcast piece.

Maui basketball Duke Duke Villanova Auburn Adam Morrison Dan Hurley Kyle Furman Villanova Duke Jack white Xavier ESPN Molly memory Twitter South Carolina Villanova Kentucky Jay Bilas FBI
Hour 2: Tim Kurkjian

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

37:33 min | 2 years ago

Hour 2: Tim Kurkjian

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And now your sportscenter update federal wiretaps in the college basketball pay for play were obtained by ESPN one such wiretap call included to Adidas employees discussing an offer by the university of Arizona of a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to sign Nassar little in when and whether Adidas should match the offer to send him to the Adidas sponsored university of Miami. The NFL has fired down judge Hugo cruise for among other things missing an obvious false start during the charges Browns game in week six. The chargers scored a touchdown on that play. Here's the selectquote term life insurance difference. Most companies give you one off. Shen one policy and one rate, but selectquote shops and could get you up to ten options. From highly rated life insurance for a free personalized quote. Call eight hundred seven eight zero ten ten or go to selectquote dot com. For all the latest headlines and info tune into sports center on ESPN radio all throughout the day. The Tim Kirch in show is brought to you by Lincoln build a winning team. Visit Lincoln dot com slash sports to get fifty dollars off your first job post. That's Lincoln dot com. Flash sports. Tim courage joins us every single week. He takes your phone. Call seven eight six four five six four eight three seven baseball and life advice to me is joining us from LA site of the World Series game three of the World Series tonight. Eight o'clock right here on ESPN radio. Timmy, dodgers, what can they do to get back into the series? Wow. They can put out of their big left handed hitter. What have you made TIMMY, what do you what have you made of that all the criticism of Dave Roberts? I think it's I think it's ludicrous to have to not have Bellinger to not have Muncie. Who carried you the first half of the season? What do you make of the criticism any decisions of Dave Roberts? Well, they're not just his decision. This is organizational decision. There's tremendous combination of thoughts from the front office and the manager. So you can't just blame Dave Roberts for this. Because others in the organization are saying here's a line that we could conceivably use. I would have played Cody Bellinger. He's the first player to ever win the LCS MVP and not start gave one of the World Series. And the dodgers are the only team in history to not start any of their top four homerun hitters from the season in a World Series game. And they did it in games one and two the now we'll see Bellinger and Muncie Peterson and some others tonight. And we'll see if they can score some runs. Plus they've got Walker. Bueller going and he gives us light different look to the Red Sox 'cause he throws about ninety eight up in the strike zone. That should be fun to watch. Tim Red Sox had the best record. In in baseball this year, and the narrative now seems to be that at two and other in in total control. Now is the difference between Boston and LA appreciable. I mean is it a clear cut advantage for Boston? You think I don't think so great. I've got Red Sox and seven to start the series. And I think the dodgers have a little bit more than people give him credit for it didn't play overly well against the brewers in healthy S and still won that series. There's something to be set for that. But the bottom line is the Red Sox won sixteen more games than the doctors did this year the outfield defense that the Red Sox have is demonstrably better. And I just I just think there are better team. But not oh, this is a sweep for sure I'd never thought that going in. All right. Jimmy help me out here. You know, I've been critical of Clayton Kershaw. I I'll tell him on the front end. I will say this. I know he's one of the greatest pitchers to ever page in majorly. Baseball history. I know that Jim, you know, I know that okay. We all know that. Okay. But what are we supposed to do? Now. Another bad World Series star game one in Boston. What are we supposed to do with Clayton Kershaw? I'm what he's done here in the postseason. Well, we still elected to the hall of fame the minute. He's eligible, I know still have an imaginary Astra's next to it that he wasn't great in the postseason. I mean nine and nine four twenty eight and his career area in the regular season is almost two runs lower than that. There's no way around that Stu gods. But as I told you he's also not the pitcher that used to be. He doesn't throws hard as he used to. He can't blow people away up in the strike zone. Like you used to? So now, we have to look at him in a slightly different light it, maybe. Well, definitely this isn't the Clayton Kershaw from three or four years ago who was so dominant. Nobody could hit him. That's not the case anymore. Tim, speaking of Kershaw in the postseason on the other side, David price has has cleared a major career hurdle. Maybe a mental hurdle with finally getting his first postseason win. Do you think that changes everything for him like moving forward is he now? You know, a good playoff pitcher. Whereas we used to think he was totally snake bit. Well, he's been really good the last two times out. And what's happened is he found his change out? It's been absolutely stunningly good to starts ago and very at the last time out. We basically throw fastball changeup, and he doesn't have a great break ball anymore. And it just shows you know, what you're doing out there. You can get away with avenue only really two pitches that you use consistently. And yes, I think we're over that hurdle with David price. And this is where Alex Cora deserves a lot of credit. I asked him many times during the season. What's what's going to happen here? And he goes we're going into the playoffs with David price is our number two starter. That's how we're going to win the World Series with him as their number two. When others were saying, you can't even pitch him out of the rotation outscored at he'll be ready. And so far he has been TIMMY, we got a a bunch of calls. We'll get to them and just the second year. I just want to go back to Dave, rob. Sports because that's interesting to me. So I understand these group decisions. The dodgers are making it shouldn't Dave Roberts or David Roberts. Have final say on who the starting lineup is meeting if he has a feeling of his guts telling him. Hey, balancers got to be months. He's gotta be in. Shouldn't he have final say on that? Well, I think he does for the most part and the numbers don't line up certain night. But the whole point is the numbers aren't the end all be all and yet for some teams for some organizations, and for some people they are, and I'm just saying again that there has to be a feel for the situation. There has to be a feel for the game. And I think Roberts is in charge of that team. But I think he gets a little bit more input than the average manager. And yes, if he stood up and sit Cody bellinger's playing I think he would win. But that's debatable point to be fair. All right. Let's go out to Vince. Vince, you're on with Tim coaching God. Hey. I was wondering how old were you? If you remember and friends that you fall in love with baseball. What was the moment? Also who's over poor overrated, even Strasbourg or Clayton Kershaw. Well Clayton Kershaw. I was at a much better career than Stephen Strasburg Strasberg's younger. We'll see where that goes. And he's got stay healthier. If he's going to beat a great pitcher that everyone wants him to be. And as for me when I don't wanna be corny about this. But my father was a really good player and had a great feel for the game. My two brothers were great college baseball players. This is all we talked about in my house growing up. So there wasn't one seven moment where I said, hey, just graduated from high school. I'm going to get interested in this. This is something that has been with me since I was a tiny little kid, and I've always loved baseball. And it's because of the house that I grew up in and because of my father's love and feel for the game. What was corny about that? There was another corny about that. Well, that's just how it works. So I loved this. Ever since I was a kid, and I love it just as much today. Tim, I wonder though, was there a particular player because for me, it was Carly's shrimp ski, and that's sixty seven Red Sox team that made me fall in love with baseball on wondering for you. If it was a particular player or a particular year. Well, I used to watch Willie Mays play. And even though we would only get to watch him like twice a year pack in the sixties when the all star game would be on. Or the giants were on the game of the week. But he was a mesmerizing figure for me the way he played the game as fast as he was as strong as he was. And that basket cast she used to make insider field bats where that was my first guy and even three thousand miles away watching him. It was just he was most talented player I'd ever seen most athletic player I'd ever seen. And I think you could actually make a case when he came in in nineteen fifty one baseball had never seen a combination of speed. Lead and power a defense like him. And it's possible. We still haven't seen anybody quite like Willie Mays. This many years later. Let's go to Jay Jays. Go ahead. You're on ESPN radio. Tim coaching. Every can answer this if they want you but ten when did you realize you wanted to bury your wife? It was pretty soon after I met her. We we had a pretty good first day, and that was pretty much it. So it didn't take very long after that, Greg. You want to answer that or I mean, it was so long ago. You don't remember? Oh, I do believe it or not. I've got a memory like an elephant. It was it was sort of a love at first sight thing with me to be honest with you. But the thing that made me phone love was the idea that she could make me laugh that laughter and humor have been important my whole life. And and I found a woman who was funny as she was smart. And and that meant a lot. All right for me. It was in temple my wife. I thought I saw her. She looked beautiful. It was love at first sight. She was waving a in my direction. I thought she was waving to me. I never met her before. I thought she was waving to me I way back to her. She came up to me and said, why do you keep waving to me? I said because you're waving demeans. You said, no, you're not I'm waving to your friends sitting three seats. Next to you. And so I fell in love right, then and there Tim was it. Your life to guys worked out. Exactly, right. Yes. That is the story of my life. It worked out. You're right. Let's go out to let's go to Jean Jean. Go ahead. You're on you're on ESPN radio. I was wondering what's baseball doing about improving the bags? You know, see a lot of guys getting hurt when they're lagging out, you know, singles and turning on bags and just figure what all the technology. Something could be done about that. Yeah. I'm a big believer in we have to do something about those bases. They are rock-hard and let it get slick or cold or wet they become very slippery. And if you have and hit a bag like with a lunging move into. I you don't realize how hard that bag is how little give there is. And I'm surprised we don't get more knee and ankle injuries on those basis. So I've I've said this for years baseball needs to come up with a better solution. But you can't go back to the old days where the bag was like, you know, nailed into the ground because then the bag moves you can't have two bases. Like, we do in softball at first base. I'm not buying that somebody's gotta come up with an idea that makes back slightly softer and yet and slightly less slippery mosaic quickly. Go ahead. You're on you're on with Jim coaching gut. Hey, Tom, thanks for taking my call. Can you share with me in the audience, some of your coping skills, they've learned in your ESPN, mandated anger management classes? Well, this is that I have no idea. I are shame on me for taking that final. Call there to me. Jimmy, joy, the joy the World Series. And we will talk to you next week by from okay, guys. See if the. Splash. Call too many, right, right? Take the wrong one for so many to choose from man, you say. You went to sleep. Give me a struggle. You might toss and turn or overheat me up sleeping in a casper. The folks at casper looked at what keeps us awake at night and dreamed up the luxurious new casper. 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Oh, no is the dust on his own natural Prentice on the lung dust on his run along. Get in touch with us through one eight hundred flowers Twitter feed at lebatardshow at stugotz, seven ninety and at Greg, Cody, it's time for straight talk. Brought to you by straight talk wireless. Best phones, best networks, no contracts. Greg Cody sitting in a second helping of Greg Cody this week here on the Dan lebatardshow would seek out ESPN radio or thanks to Tim Kirch in for joining us earlier. Thanks to the ball wins. Love that segment. Diana receding to join us. Coming up at at noon eastern. We'll talk some NFL and talk about why she's an evil sister. We'll do that at noon eastern, Greg. I wanna talk about this potential. Well this offer. That's that is reporting that the rockets have offered four first round picks, which is the most you can offer they have offered that to Minnesota for Jimmy Butler. I wanna talk about that. But I heard some things during the local hour that you said that I just I want to get some clarity on. I wanted to discuss with you. So we'll do that. Next segment. Talk about the rockets offering four first round picks for Jimmy Butler top dividend. Ain't didn't get any better than that. Because it can't that's the most you could offer four first round picks. But there are a couple of things that I heard you say on the way in this morning. First off I agree with you on music festivals. If you're wondering where Dan and Mike today believe they're at a music festival is that correct different ones. I think but yes, it's dizzying. It ruins the the musical experience for me. I want to go to a concert and not much the way I watch sports. I don't wanna have to fake. I don't need schedules. I don't need four or five different venues in stages. Just my band's playing they're going on at seven thirty. They'll be done at eleven thirty. I'll be owned by twelve thirty. That's it do not like music festival. I want I agree with you. I want to see a particular artist. I don't even like an opening act. You know, when I go to see Jack Smith, I wanna see Jack Smith. I don't wanna see his opening act. And the idea that you're you're gonna put yourself through forty forty five bands over three days to hear the one band that you really want sort of ridiculous. No. And you're you're spending spending five hundred bucks a ticket for three days. And it's muddy it's raining. It's too crazy. It's kind of like baseball. You put yourself through one hundred sixty two meaningless boring games to get to the series that you really want to get it which is Red Sox and Yang. Exactly. Yes. It's like the headline. You just waited Sunday nine o'clock deadline or. Yeah. They'll like it at all. I also heard you say that you follow. Was it the dictionary on Twitter? Yeah. Merriam Webster dot com. Okay. I do follow them on Twitter. I'm not alone. They have a number of followers. But you know, they have a word of the day, which is fantastic. And and they have this new thing we talked about where you enter any year. And they they tell you what words that year entered the English lexicon. What I appeared in the dictionary that year. But you follow this Twitter. So so it's the strangest Twitter follow I think, ROY what's the strangest. Who's the strangest person thing that you follow on Twitter, the Avalon? Racism watchdog is is one. Actually, that's the one that points out like a racist. Tweet and it barks like bark bark bark bark bark as a tweet. It actually barks at you. Yeah. Okay. Ghirma? I mean that was pretty self explanatory. With the bark was important. I appreciate you know, problem again, a strange follow on Twitter. Yeah. Mikey, see? Yeah. So strange person I get to him and his smoke breaks here at a second. I could someone look up. A Greg follows the dictionary on Twitter gets up on look up. The last five tweets the dictionary sends out a very it's an odd odd follow. What do you do it? You're wearing Webster. You know, you gotta specify your wordsmith though. I'm trying to be. That's why I'm very American you. I mean, maybe maybe he or she does. I don't know. I also heard you guys talking about the scale at Publix when you walk into a supermarket now Publix is down here in south Florida is our supermarket. I don't know if they're national chain. They don't think they are. They are certainly down here. I heard you talking about this guy. There's big giant scale that I never go on because that's Gail was. I mean, that's scale and by lies. It tells the truth no scale tells the truth more than the public scale. But I heard you saying that you when people step on that scale. You sneak up on them? And you try to see how they weigh in. Yeah. Is if I'm not watching because it's sort of an Beijing of privacy a little bit. That's one reason. I don't get on a public scale is that my weight is my business. You know? I don't want somebody in back of me to know that that I'm struggling to get under two hundred pounds. You know, that's a private thing between me and my diet. Right. It's just so odd ROY you have the what are you doing in the last five things and the last thing that they should the last thing that the dictionary tweeted out. Yeah. Before it was the name for a call, pumpkin. Jack lantern referred to either a night watchman or the light from a real Lewitt, willow. The wisp will of the list, I was gonna end this segment there. But we can it was it was a tough read for. That's my bad. His the the tree. That is straight talk. Brought to you by straight talk wireless, nationwide coverage on America's largest and most dependable four G LT networks soya America. These these show with this. Jax from southeast. Regio ESPN radio is presented by progressive insurance. Guests on the Dan lebatardshow appear via the shell Pennzoil performance line. And now, you're fort center update federal wiretaps in the college basketball pay for play were obtained by ESPN. Multiple wiretapped calls include Brian Bowen seniors several school recruitment of Brian Bowen junior and his attempts to get paid. The NFL has fired down judge Hugo cruise for among other things missing an obvious false start during the chargers Browns game in week six. The chargers scored a touchdown on that play for all of the latest headlines and information tune into sports center on ESPN radio all throughout the day. We'll get to Mikey see and his smoke breaks in just a minute here. Very excited about this very very excited, Greg so whoa, is reporting several reports out there that the Houston Rockets, and listen, Darryl Maury has. Has said it a number of times that he is obsessed that they think about it on a daily basis what they can do to overtake the Golden State Warriors. And he's all in game away last year. You know game seven Western Conference on their home court. Chris Paul wasn't healthy wasn't available for that game. Perhaps the rockets would have won that game. If he if he was available, but so they were close last year, Greg they were close to doing what Daryl Morey desperately wants to do. But it wasn't enough. But we also don't know we're not sure if it wasn't enough because Chris Paul wasn't there for that big game seven. But clearly he thinks it's not enough to overtake this. Golden State Warriors team. The reports are that he is offering Minnesota and top Ditto four first round picks for Jimmy Butler. That's insane. Right. Yeah. I mean, if if you're Minnesota you take it in a heartbeat. This is life in the in the Golden State dynasty, where if you think you're pretty. Good. But not there you're looking for any bridge, you can find to to cross over to Golden State territory. The the weird thing to me, though, is that you know, you can argue whether Jimmy Butler is even a superstar. I mean, he's a nice player sheriff, he's an all star. Right. But you can you know, it's very arguable. Whether he's an elite player, whether he's topped here and four, you know, offer four first round draft picks for the elite guys, you know, not for a Jimmy Butler. I don't think we'll maybe see. That's interesting. What you just said. Stan Gundy told us that maybe if Jimmy Butler is your third best player you gotta shot at winning an NBA third best player. But that's interesting because I'm with you. If you're gonna offer four first round picks, it should be for the elite of the elite. Right. But if I throw this into the mix what if this is the guy that down Maury thinks gets them pass Golden State war, the the Golden State Warriors meeting. He's not the elite of the elite. But he's the missing piece that them getting past Golden State and winning an NBA championship. Then do you do it? Because these four first round picks it'll be late first round picks rock is gonna be good for a while. Now. Yeah. No that's hall just on the four year deal hardens in the early stages of his new deal. And if they get Jimmy Butler, they'll see if they could sign them on, and and and that would fit with what Van Gundy said, and I agree with Van Gundy, if he's your third guy, you have a hell of a team, you know, the the Miami Heat down here went very hard after Jimmy Butler. Who would have been the best player on the heat team? But that would not have made the heat necessarily even the best team in the east let alone in the league. So, you know, Houston's aiming higher and willing to spend more. And I it's it's interesting gamble. They're proposing it really the problem with Golden State. And this is why you know, I've I've said it forever. Well, since Kevin Durant went there. They've wreck basketball is they have a fourth. So Jimmy Butler might be your third, but Golden State has four. Yeah. And Houston's fourth is Carmelo Anthony Wright, I'd rather have Draymond green or Klay Thompson as my fourth. So I guess my trepidation if on the rockets, and I know you're all in. But do I give up four first round picks two things. There's no guarantee I'm better than Golden State. There's no guaranteed. Jimmy Butler is gonna sign here. Long-term man. That's a tough decision. Oh that. Yeah. It is. And that's a lot of. I know they're they're going to be late first round pigs. But man, it's still four first round pays that's a lot. It's a lot. And you make a good point about Jimmy Butler. Maybe being a glorified rental. You know, similar to what the dodgers did and acquiring Manny Machado. You know, what's going to happen in free agency? What's going to happen beyond the next few months? Right. So what do you do? I mean, if you're Minnesota you take it. Oh, I would make the deal. And I it seems like if you're the rockets if you're down more, it seems like what you're saying is you wouldn't make that trade. You would not trade four first round picks for Jimmy Butler. Well, I think you have to calculate how low in the round those picks are likely to be because you know, how it is in the NBA. There's only two rounds. And if you don't have a top ten pick if you're picking twenty-third it it's almost like doesn't really feel like a first round. Even you know. So unless these are high first round picks what they probably would not be then then maybe four first round picks is not as much of a windfall as it might seem. It's going to be interesting. I mean, I can't see how Minnesota would say no to that. The offer's not gonna get the offer can't get that. Oh, it can't get better. No it just can't right, right? I mean, unless another team comes in with four first round picks one of the heat, Pat. Riley say, hey, you know, what? Okay. Four first round picks because he won't be as good long-term as the rockets are going to be right and arrive and given up for first round pel. No, he isn't. And although rally is not really a draft oriented boss, but even rally would not give up for first rounders. I don't believe I don't think so GMO we're all very excited smoke break with Mike. I did a weekend show for a couple of years with with Mike Golic junior. And we made Mikey see the star of the show Mikey see is just classic legend in his own mind type of guy. No, he's a legend in Bristol. Also. Around bristol. He's a legend in Bristol. I noticed his his personality what he could bring to our show very quickly early on. And so we made him the star of the show. We literally created Sunday morning seven to nine AM. We created a segment called smoke break with Mikey sick. As it stands. Not here today at any Mike. You was board opping the show. I texted him yesterday. Saying, hey, if you get a couple of smoke breaks dawn, I will put them on ESPN radio put him on the big show, and he was very excited about that. I'm telling you, it was most popular segment we had when I was doing the weekend show with Mike Golic junior. Mikey see goes out to a dumpster and he has a cigarette, and he has a discussion with someone at ESPN. And so it's fantastic. Because I'm telling you, Mike you see every break. He goes out to that dumpster and has a cigarette. So what we decided to do is. Hey, let's take a brick wall. Took a smoke break together. At someone has to go out there with Mike. See and they'll take a conversation. Mike is Mike. You see there tonight? Oh, I'm has been waiting for this moment for months and how many times how many trips to the dumpster? Have you made those for today? Just it's ten o'clock this morning tap and bottom of every hour. So when it's one two three, okay how many cigarettes did you have during those three visits? Only half say they're quick me. Only have five minute breaks. I only got half a cigarette in the long one. So okay. Well, you smoke one hundreds. Yeah. Ginger slams Virginia, the one twenties the super thin ones. Are you excited about these smoke breaks? You did not one but two yesterday that is that accurate. Yeah. But I'm really excited about this one. Because back when you guys were doing the races. When ROY was racing, Chris and everything Billy had asked me if I wanted to come down, and and try to raise with you guys. But as a forty year old smoker, I've figured that. I've only got one good sprint left in me. And so I wanted to saving it for me. I'm figuring I wanted to save it like if I was to chase by like an axe murderer or a beer or something like life or death that I really needed. Yeah. Because that one good sprints gonna kill you. Or could save me. All right. So so so you're excited about this. We there's two Billy can you? Tell us who the first guest is or do you want to save that what do you want to do the surprise? I know who they are because Mike told me by accident yesterday. But I think he wants them to be a surprise to you. I know one of them. Okay. I don't know the second one. And I will only tease because we're to play the smoke break coming up next the one that I know texted yesterday telling me, it's the single worst thing he's ever been a part of in his media career. Look, I don't there's now I make money moves. That's coming up. You need to visit for hymns dot com. A one stop shop for hair loss skin care and other wellness supplements for man, thanks to science baldness. This can be optional Hames connect you with real doctors and medical grade solutions treat hair loss. They have well-known generic equivalents that name brand prescriptions to help you keep your hair. No snake oil pills or gas station counter supplements. Nope. Instead stead prescription solutions back by science. 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All find out at once Mikey say give us our smoke break. Time for smoke. Mike. Exciting. The dishes of smoke break with Mike. I'm your host outside or make you see up by the dumpster. And I'm very excited because we've got the former co host of maybe the greatest weekend. Kitchen, my smoking. Junior joining us and I'm out of breath because I just ran because I forgot my phone interview. You're the only person I know that would attempt to sprint back from getting your phone forgetting, the one thing we came out here to do you forgot the one thing we needed for sprinted, which with your lungs is never a good idea. And now, we're just topping off with a cigarette immediate athlete. You're in a world class athlete. Cite from the from the phone he needed the cigarettes to I probably would've sprint to back for that. That's a fair point priorities. So as I said used to be the co host of the can up to face in the show, one of the greatest shows ever instigates. You seem to have landed on your feet, though, you're doing pretty well for yourselves beyond the show is still doing Golic and wingo, and and you do in football games. And you still do first and last. And he just got like named then this like lists for like, what was it? Like tap broadcasters under the age of twenty five thirty thirty at this point. You have you graduated out of the twenty five group, and I'm nearly getting under the thirty under thirty VAR. The problem is that the thirty thirty. I forget the name of the publication, and even was all people think of is the Forbes thirty under thirty. So of course, my family group check, it's a hold of this in my sister-in-law goes looking for the Forbes list, and she's like I saw like three twenty one year old CEO's and quickly realized you weren't meant to be on this list. So honored with something. I got humbled right after it. Well, enter they get a lot of the smoke break. You'll be on some other lists probably not a great list. But. I'll be one of the list, they put my hustler or something. Big news like about their car like supposedly may be crying during football game. Or did you ever cry during football? No, the almost caught me Slippin during the national championship game. We're getting steamrolled by bam on. It was like a third quarter. I got through all of like the because that was my last college football. I was dumb liability after that. So you're sitting there on the sideline kind of taking it all in. And I got it all the way in the third quarter. So after the game, I was ready ready drink, we have we had a party that was going to be planned win or lose. I if set up by the hotel, and so we're just gonna be sad beers instead of happy beers. Hey, either way they gotta get drink drink a lot of them too. Remember, it had all these great things. Like, I was going to ask you and then had this spring. Do you remember last time? He dead sprint. No. I try to avoid dead sprints at all costs. I was surprised you did it like I'm not in any rush. I didn't tell you to hurry. You force this sprint on yourself. And now you're out here. I'm worried I'm going to have to lift you out of the dumpster at some point. Got nothing else to say, thank you. For dating me another distance smoke break in the book. I love the tapping of the dumpster at the beginning. It's such a great so bad. He was woefully unprepared. And he was out of breath. And that was his final spread. But I also love the master drag. He takes the end, right? Isolate that drag or someone bad there is like that drag that he takes to the end Bill. You're shaking your head. The you've loved like you said you've been a guest on smoke breaks. I love Mikey. See he didn't seem to have like he does preparation, but his facts are usually wrong. And then he said ahead questions. Ask you. But I don't remember what they were just ended it. He took a drag of a cigarette. Mike, he's at the worst one you've ever done. It's up there. But I mean, my gosh, I did a dead sprint from like. Hundred yards to do this interview. You got to cut me some slack and don't cut you slag. No one was rushing except for you, my junior was there all day for you get you all day to get it done. I was trying to do it during the show during a commercial break. I rushed myself are you smoking wild. Sprinting. Go Joe o. Go jobs there go Joe. How'd you feel about that? Got some top to bottom that was one of the worst smoke breaks we've ever done. Yes. But, but but it was glorious all the same time like on this show, especially Mike bad is good. And that was awful. It was terrible. Got from the get-go we got outside. And he forgot the only two things that he needs in his calling in cigarettes. So by the time he got back outside. I would shoot him. But we saw him bend over and almost pass out. Once he took the first Ripa that cigarette because he was so out of breath and out of shape where you're telling me that he went out for his own segment that we call smoke break. He forgot his pack of cigarettes. Okay. Greg seemed to enjoy it thoroughly you do you have a smile on your face. You really you enjoyed that segment. I think I absolute love it. I mean, the whole dumpster thing is fantastic. You should do it from inside the dumpster to get like an echo effect. We're a little short on production for smoke break at this point mostly because Mikey refuses to do any work and advances this he claimed to have a bunch of better questions for me at the end of the interview. But really he was just trying and gasping Cobra. Yeah. But might the best is the best part is he blamed it on the sprint. That's why he couldn't remember any of this quad. He blamed it on running. Godless. Do got the original guy. Do you know who the next guest is on smoke break? Do you know the other one? He did I do not we have another one. Yeah. There's. That was the second one. I will text you when we're gonna play. Thank you. Thank you for taking part of our nonsense, man. Thanks, guys. All right. Very exciting. A second smoke break. But before that, we'll talk to Diana receiving next. Dan, not Greg Cody on ESPN radio.

ESPN Mike Golic Jimmy Butler Mikey Greg Cody Dan lebatardshow baseball dodgers rockets Twitter Clayton Kershaw NFL Dave Roberts Golden State Warriors Minnesota Cody Bellinger Boston Red Sox Tim
Dan Wetzel

The Right Time with Bomani Jones

51:15 min | 1 year ago

Dan Wetzel

"Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the right time. My name is Bomani Jones. They solicit on the ESPN app apple podcast, wherever you get you pack as we appreciate it rate. As review us. Give us five stars. You only give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe that. You are a hater. We are doing our second show of the week. That is when we happy guests. Join us, and we're fortunate to have this week with us from Yahoo sports is absolutely one of the best in the business that this is name is Dan Wetzel. And Dan, you had the joy of attending the NC double a basketball trial in New York City as it was going on in the first question. I ask is has anybody figured out. Why they even did this in the first place. Now, really now really I tell you the probably the most troubling part is what happened was a financial adviser in Pittsburgh got bucked it on securities fraud like a real crime. And part of his plea deal. Get out of it was he was going to give the feds college basketball in and, you know, amateur basketball, and he set up all these dudes and introduce them to the undercover agents to undercover agents working on this case for over a year. Let alone wiretaps secret meetings. I mean, everything and so they end up nail. And all these guys on what I would think is. A fake crime. If a crime at all and the guy actually committed crime, he's cool. So he got almost securities fraud for this, right? Like a sister coach is going to jail it is awful securities fraud. Absolutely. So we could get wiretaps of like thousand thirteen hundred dollar cash drops and stuff like that. And it's got committed a real crime. And you think about how much money was spent in resources, we got FBI undercover FBI agents. Cool. What we nail somebody doing something. Instead of a Dita's paying a kid. You know, ten grand. Okay. I wonder when it got to the tough though, somebody had to be disappointed that this all this was the head to be whoever made the call that. This is what we're going to do. I just feel like when this is all you get you can't be happy. Can you like this can't be what they thought they were getting? This is all just my opinion. I don't know what happened. Okay. But my guess is. 'cause if you look at this they had they were up on wires. They had got these two. To undercover agents had infiltrated the business a little bit. And it gained some trust yet. They pull the plug and arrest ten people that nobody knows other than Chuck Person because he's working as as the Auburn assistant. Now, they could've stayed on for another year. And now, maybe they're sitting there arresting a prominent basketball coach everyone's hurt up right now. Maybe it's Rick Patino and Bill self. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not using them doing any wrong. But we didn't your target be somebody big. Now, we got a story. Okay. Now. Now, we got something. Instead, it's like, look we got this. You know, we got system coach at Oklahoma state. Great. You know, we we got this middle manager at at a Dita's. Boy, we really nailed him. You know? Yeah. So I'm guessing somewhere along the line. It got up and somebody goes way. What are we wasting time onto in that case that that's just my opinion? Because why would you settle for? You know, these guys also don't forget they got to do make suits the suit man was teasing by favorite part of this story clo- air, I like to call the clo- you don't get used the term clothe the air. Very often. We got the suit guy, we got a twenty four year old street hustler is trying to be he was trying to be like, you know, Jerry Maguire, we got you know, four coaches who are just try to make a couple extra bucks. Like, you know, someone's come. Hey, I'll give you twenty grand if you advisor guy to to to sign with me. All right. What the heck right? No. You know, someone's give me twenty grand. I moved light. You know, you're not supposed to get fired from your job. You're not supposed to if it says contractually, but man, everyone is going to have a side hustle. You know, you know, James Gatto who they who got convicted to count they they kind of tried. Make him out to be like this. Adidas mastermind. He's I mean, he's worked at twenty five years of the Dida. He's climbed up to have basically in charge of the money going to which eight Uteem's he was making a hundred and thirty nine grand a year, which is a very nice salary. But by no means is this a job that where he is getting rich. Okay. He's got kids and wife lives in Portland. It's not cheat. Like he has a good job. But he's working gazillion hours four and it took him a quarter century to get it. And they found no skimming of the money. They found it would have been presented, right? I'm assuming you know, he wasn't stealing. He wasn't cheating on expenses. It was just doing the job. Like, this is the mastermind, and he would they would play these like their play like these audio in court, and he'd be like, okay? Here's a call from James Gatto to leaving a message to Rick Patino. Right. And it would be like, hey. Coach pitino. This is James Gatto from Adidas sorry departure, you really sorry. If you could please call me, you know, like this is the mastermind. He's scared to leave a message for these guys. He's nobody. And this is the guy that we're going to put him away like the streets are safe with James Gatto, Dawkins and Merle code on them. Okay. Like America doesn't have to worry that they might convince other multi billion dollar multinational corporation to give some money to poor high school kids, what they wanted about this win these guys realized that like the actual fence involved because everything I've read seem to indicate everybody was concerned about getting caught by the AA, but nobody comported themselves as though they were thinking that they might go to jail Riley. Nobody's talking Colin really look up one day. And they're like, wait. What do you mean? The FBI is at my door. I mean, they did have like burner phones, and they would have code. But it was like the worst code ever like. Like every like, yo I don't want to discuss this payment. So call me on my burner. God. What that was what I'm like. Maybe you guys should maybe do a weekend in prison. Just just for being so blatant. Ain't nobody knew is going to be a crime. I mean, I, you know, I'm sympathetic to them. I've met I always try to meet everybody when I cover court cases, you know, families and try to really, and I don't care how Ariffin the Cusack as you wanna like try to get their side. I mean, you know, Jerry, Sandusky family. I mean, you know, like, you try to be fair a little some cases. But like it's just like this is just free. Dick yetlis. Are we really here in Manhattan at the big federal courthouse? Like, you know. But there we are so yeah, these guys didn't know they they're hiding from the NCAA, and they ended up, you know. Oh my God. They the wa they're literally the FBI is listening to these phone calls. I mean, even the way they would talk on the call. They just be bantering about about crap. And. You know, it was clear they had no idea. Like, what would you say? It was the best description of the scene around the drought 'cause you federal court. They don't allow cameras in there. So we all just get magic. We look at the drawings that they come up with. Well, I mean, there are three defendants. So it's kind of a lot of lawyers. There weren't that many people there, you know, court would be mostly half-full less than half full a third full. It was very little media. You know, you'd have these families. It was very I've covered a lot of trials and most of them are are way more serious. So it wasn't very intense. This wasn't a murder trial. There was no agreed party there weaving in the first row, right? I mean, just didn't feel like if these guys get off or they get or they get convicted like there's nobody who's like, I need Justice. You know? And so that really changed the element of what normal court cases. I mean, even if you're just at like, someone snatched my purse there's going to be someone there being like you stole my purse. You know, I'm mad at you. There's nobody that. I mean, the the the actual clock the actual victims. They would have attorneys. They're like, we think Kansas had an attorney deterrent. He wouldn't tell us where he's from. But like Kansas there, right? I'm pretty sure. So we'll tomb that. They're rooting for nothing to come out. Right. They don't want anything to come out. So instead of being like, yeah, we're gonna nail him. It's like, oh my God. I hope nothing gets said, and you know, these victims. I mean, it's what what the people are like how did this even come about? I mean, what they basically did the feds were basically able to say that if you create if you make a player ineligible college player. Ineligible. Then you have defraud a college because they have signed are playing a kid. They can get them in trouble with the NCAA. And so you are you by paying a player to go to a certain school? You're not helping that school. You are turning that school into a victim. Even if this is under the direction of the basketball coaching staff like in the case of North Carolina State, there is direct testimony. This guy TJ gas Nola drop the money off at an assistant coaches house at NC state who. Then delivered the money to the family of Dennis Mitchell are supposedly delivered it. I they never introduced the actual cash bag or out. But we're we're go with it. Okay. Even then because they said, well, these coaches would be defrauding the schools to they're not a school. So we're like, well who's the school is Bill south Kansas? Or is it some chemistry? Professor is like the board of trustees the student like who is the thing, but they were able to do that. And and and additionally the because these people knew nothing about college basketball, and I mean, nothing like during jury selection, they're they're like anybody here heard of the name Rick Patino, and there's like fifty people in the room like six stand up as it, basically. They all got bounce. It was like a Yukon fan. Like Syracuse other got most people knew nothing, right? But they were able to convince the jury that NCA sanctions were so significant that these school. Were dead. If they got nailed on it. Okay. Like, you idiot. Okay. Fine. You have vacated wins. You could get scholarship. All of this is true. But in reality, it's things aren't that. Big of a deal. Okay. Alabama football program's been hit with sanctions many times through the year. Right. The Kentucky basketball programs many times Carolina's that's Geduld to everybody Kansas has been many times. It's the cost of doing business in the sport. It's like saying you cannot commit a foul basketball game. If you commit a foul, a referee will blow with super loud and point at you in front of all the fans and all the people watching on TV, it'll be humiliating. And then the other team gets to take two three shots. Right. Instead, you go look. Yeah. Alabama gets put on probation and while they're on probation. They built the stadium bigger. And then they get off and get going again. And that's the thing. I think was the number one thing that you that the feds did, and I took my cap to them on this because just as a legal thing they did brilliantly. They made it seem like if you got caught by the NCAA you you're dead. And everyone knows in college sports get caught by the NCAA the coroner you'll be back. Especially in basketball because like reload in football takes awhile. You gotta get the right? Do know this basketball, you could reload this with one class three do your Syracuse has been busted like chimpanzees nailed like multiple times this program, they never stopped going to never bad right with forty years. Same coach like, okay. You caught if that? Two more recruits all the best schools they and they wouldn't allow the judge wouldn't allow the defense to really counter that with all the mayhem. And and that that's what I think really like they couldn't even really bring up into evidence much how Louisville was on probation as this was going on like they had already had a title strip. And they already were nailed for the, you know, the escort escorts in the in the in the dorm, they weren't able to bring that into evidence. And that's what really got them because if you sit there and go all right Louisville. Just lost the national title was on on probation had been nail for this unbelievable scandal this way, the heck bigger than this. And yet Rick Pitino was still employed, and the staff was still employed, and they and Brian bow and junior tugs bow and still want to go there. Like there really was no damage to that scandal. Then I took a banner. Down. And that's really why they want it. So people wonder what what was the crime and how they win that was it. They basically got a bunch of people who knew nothing about college basketball, college sports, and they're they're looking at it. I think going why do you have a burner phone? Why are you sending these cryptic texts? And why are you hiding and that looks like fraud, but the fraud was to hide from the NCAA not to hide from offense. And I think that's where that's all they want. But they want it. I'll tell you that. I will be with more with Dan, Westlund, just a minute. But first guys, you know, sixty six percent of men lose their hair by as thirty five. Like me. A big problem thing is we start to notice here loss too late. It's easy to keep the hair you had to replace the hair you've lost how you feel year from now his business as usual up there. Why guys sit back and watch their hairlines move back back back when they could turn the medicine science solution perhaps dot com. One stop shop for hair loss, skin care and sexual wellness for men. Nice science bonds can be optional Hamson next you real doctors and medical gray solutions to treat hair loss. Well, no generic equivalents to name Brad griffis to help you. Keep your hair snow snake oil, fills a gas station counter supplement script solutions that fact by signs, no waiting room offered in-person doctor visits safe hours by going to four hymns dot com. Just answer few questions doctor will review and prescribe you products shipped directly to your door at order now. Now, my list get a trial of hymns for just five dollars a day right now while supplies last. See website for details. This because hundreds if you went to the doctor or pharmacy, go to for him dot com slash Bomani. That's F R H I M S dot com slash Bomani for him dot com slash. Now one thing you mentioned was that the courthouse was about a third full in that you said that there really wasn't much media. I have fast Nate by the idea that there really wasn't much media there because as interesting stuff in be I think maybe even seven years ago, I feel like this would have felt like a lot more scandal than it has. Well, I think that media's broke like that newspapers and stuff don't have the money to go cover three week trial in Los Angeles. And I think twenty fifteen ten years ago, even you know, the Kansas City star would have been there Kansas is on trial. Right. There's nobody from Kansas there. And I think that was a big part of it. And I think you know. Yeah. I think people become immune to this stuff. Right. I mean, one of the things is a while ago. But when Charles Robinson, I really do in a lot of college investigations one of our goal was just to be like, we're tired of the argument that it only goes on here. Let's just let's just investigate everyone, and we just started rattling off scandal scandal scandal, and then you have the other general scandal. But then you're like, okay. It's a high state, it's organs Miami. It's all these different places. And I think at some point the balance tips, not taking credit, but that was part of it. I think it was just a huge wave of scandals, and it got any capped with Navid Shapiro. And it was sorta like all right? Everyone's doing it. What are we gonna do about it? And the say was rattled. But I think fans stopped becoming like well who cares? Right. And the bigger scandals are, you know, Jerry, Sandusky, and Larry Nassar like those are scandal. Now, just 'cause some point guard got a thousand. Dad got a thousand bucks to play somewhere who cares anymore? And I think there's just a tipping point. Maybe it was generational or demographics or whatever it is. But I don't know that anyone really cares about this stuff that much anymore. Even though it's it's it's fascinating stuff. And it's kind of juicy there, isn't that? Like Borel outrage that you would have had in the past. And it kinda makes you wonder whether I mean, obviously agreed but continues with the charade that they insist upon because I felt that I do think that people kinda like the idea of amateur sports, right? Like is ridiculous. As it may seem I do think for a lot of people are kind of adds to the charm of it. But Bill self we're talking like a top five coaching name in the country. He's on the text message, basically talking about paying somebody and he's just coached on national television a couple of days ago. And it's like it never happened. Yeah. People people there are segment that likes the idea of the amateur. It's there's no question, even though it's, you know, absurd or just the idea that somehow a level playing field that one always gets me. You know? Well, if we lower the kids to play what would stop Idaho state from like, you know, good luck. You know, let Idaho state try who cares? Yeah. Bill south in this. I mean, I think like self about this and just the way we do things. Now, like, it's all denied tonight that I and then and then play to your base. Like, no matter what you are what you're doing. And so with Kansas. It's like oh Bill sells the victim. You want an accused anything and that that was their party line and the fans bought it or they're going with it. And it's like, what do you mean? He wasn't accused of anything. He's absolutely accused of something. Like, he's on these text messages, like I'll give you a specific example, those it didn't fall with that closely. Like, there's this kid Sousa making a decision on where to go, and it's down the last couple of days and Sylvia the Sousa hails from and goal. And he has a guardian in the United States who's running the recruitment. And Bill self and Kurtis Townsend. Their assistant are on the text to this guy. TJ gas Nola who was the Dita's bag man, quote, unquote, and he would fly around the country and deliver like literally thirty grand cash forty grand cash. The people quite a job. I don't know how you put that on your tax form. But that was his job and they're texting with him. And they're like, hey, we're close with Silvio. You know, let us know how it goes to be talked to the guardian tonight. And, you know, tech spill south like, hey, I talked to him a hot to go bills. Right back light work. No problem. You know, all this stuff. Like, he's right in the middle of this thing. And it's like, well any would he would profess and other text messages, he would talk with them, you know, about their recruits, and he'd say I'm here to help. We're gonna help you deed is going to help you. And like did these people think he was helping by like pointing out the size of the library or something. Like, what do you think? This guy's doing. I mean, of course, he's this is what he does. Everybody knows it. And you know, he's in there. And yeah, Kansas like, we don't care. We suspend the player player gets it. He might be guilty. The player can't play. The coach might be guilty for the coach get to keep coaching fire up the pet fan. Let's go, you know, we're good. And so the dichotomy of college athletics, it's kind of the fun part too. Because all the other fans could be outraged. And yeah, and then the Kansas fans like not us, and you know, every I always say every college sports fan. Thanks. Everybody is cheating except off especially our rival right there. Really cheating. Our guys. No way, my coaches, so moral high. Yeah. I mean, give me a break with stuff, and it was interesting to Bill selves in those text messages, it this is how it's done just like UNC and Duke even talking to these guys needed to talk through. Hey, you know, it's not just us. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even though they're like, well, this is what pays when Nike does for Carolina. And then the the bad gas, Nola and Kentucky, you know. And. Yeah, this is how this is how it's done. Okay. Like, this is the thing about it. It was actually a guy a. A former smaller college coach came up to the trial for a couple of days. I'm bad at least from North Carolina real nice guy. And he he had been reading about. He just was like, I gotta go see this. I wanna hear like how does this really work 'cause he's always wanted to coach D one. But like I could never get in on it. And you know, he's just it was it was confusing and all that any just like, this is this is outrageous man, like this is crazy 'cause it was just laid out. And so if you're a fan of college sports, like this, this is it they can tell you that, you know, these kids why did you pick I woke up, and I just was dreaming blue. You know, I I really liked the foliage they had on campus and all this stuff, and they do like that stuff. But this that's not how it works. Like, there just aren't very many deals going like whether these kids are already been paid or getting paid or something's moving them in that direction. And the great recruiter is the one who's connected, it's not. He's just so charming. It just doesn't work that way. They tell you it does. But it just doesn't you can believe it if you want, but you're believing ally. Well, I mean, did is aren't that many people who are in a position to turn down money? Right. Like there are some people that can just be like not as okay, we'll wait the year before the moaning money comes. But if if there is money to be given to somebody there's somebody that's gonna take like, I don't know why they can't get that part. Look at these four system coaches that have been busted they all had two hundred thousand dollars a year. Plus jobs say how about twenty more take it. Look at the coach, you know, everybody takes money. Exactly, you get a little extra money. But especially if you're struggling a little bit or you want to travel and see your mount of of the money that was discussed about I need money. So I can watch my kid play there and travel to the games was was was interesting to me. And now as a parent I never thought of that when I was younger. But now as a parent could see that. All right. I send my kid. But what are we going to in Kansas? I can't get to the games too. I moved. I need a little help move in there. I wanna be around my son. I you know, because. These kids at this level have a chance. To make it to the NBA and and and make millions. They got the lottery ticket, but it didn't quite there. And and only a million bad things can happen. And only one good thing can happen. And so if you're the parent, I can see why you'd like I wanna be right there. Just in case anything goes down. I don't want them in the dorm. If I, you know more times over my apartment like because you know, anything just anything can happen campus. Police come in. You're in a room. There's some some weed in a dorm room. Oh my God. Boom, you're on sports in. And who knows what you know. There's so many things that can go wrong. And so these and they and they just want to be around and they love their kid, and it's kind of heartbreaking when you think about it. That was one of Brian bow and senior who I'm not gonna say a sympathetic guy. But you know, one of his things was just wanted to be wherever it kid was going to go. He wanted to be right there. Now could've set a Michigan state. Would've been fine. But you know, you can see why at the end of the day. They're like, hey, Donovan Mitchell, just turn pro by son plays the same position. I can go play for Donovan Mitchell. Coach take Donovan Mitchell spot, you know, AC like why would you go play for Louisa Rick Pitino? This is a great coach. And but I need some money 'cause I won't move down there. And that's what gets posted. So some of it isn't like I need the money 'cause I wanna drive around Bentley. It's like I need to par that you're also headed your kid over to somebody that you've already deemed to be on, trustworthy, and a lot of cases and the sharks this round programs. Just because there's so many of these kids like this, and all you gotta do be the right person had the right game. And then boom, you got somebody especially when it's a non family member involved in this. You're not just going to go hand over this asset and just say, all right? Well, you guys talked to them as cool. I've got this under control. That's not gonna happen. Yeah. I think a lot of the NCAA rules in basketball are based on like the nineteen seventies. Right. So you didn't know if your kid was good enough. See send them to coach. You hope you hope he goes play for this coach and in three or four years he continues to develop four years, right? You had to go four year any and maybe starts a sophomore or junior. And you gotta go, and you don't really know about all these programs in the country seems bigger you haven't done this. A you all over and nobody knows who your kid is except in your hometown. Or maybe your state if you wanna stay title or or people who read the Bob Gibbons newsletter right now, totally different. You got one year, and you're going to leak you got people telling you you're in the league you've net. NBA people. You take the cases I and Williamson nobody knows who he is kids got one point seven million Instagram followers before he ever. Set foot on Duke at Duke. He's got more. But if you have one point seven million Instagram followers, most of whom are other teenagers. Okay. I've talked to marketing guy during this trial. You could sell an ad for forty fifty thousand dollars. He could come. He could stand there. Hold on a muscle Melker, just drinking it get forty fifty thousand dollars. 'cause that's how much influence he has over younger people and. What what is changed is the high school star in nineteen seventy six or something like that? He's going off the plate for Bob Knight. Yeah. He was an amateur. Johnny Williams, a profession. He just have to pretend these amateur for for like, seven months. He is. Well, no, he has a brand he he can get paid to play basketball. He could do whatever all sorts of stuff. So the the the processes started earlier, Brian Bowen, junior tugs Bowen, okay? About the number thirty recruiting the country number twenty five or the country, real good. But he isn't scien- Williamson any isn't the Andre the knees and going to be number one pick. He got paid by Dida twenty five thousand dollars. Dad got paid twenty five thousand dollars to play for Adidas a team in the summer between his sophomore and junior year. You got pay twenty five grand for one summer that is the high school job of all high. School jobs gets that kind of money. Now you and I or anybody else can be like that is absolutely nuts. Why would you pay a Dita's pick? What you're worth whatever someone's willing to pay. Adidas all the value and having played for their team. He's a professional basketball player at that point low paid on the scale kinda, but somebody saw value in his basketball and is willing to pay him twenty five thousand dollars to play for some. She's only a sophomore. Now. What is the number one player were you know, if we know he's worth twenty five ran what could what could have Zion or Dion had they so chosen. So the ideas the NCAA rules is like, well, you're an amateur amateur. Now, you turn pro it's like, no man, I turned pro three or four years ago. I just have to now pretend I'm an amateur for a little while. Then I go pro again. And that's where I think you have such a clash is NCA is not trying to delay. They used to always want to delay capitalism. Now, they're trying to stop it, and it becomes even more absurd than saying 'cause they used to say, basically paler swear needs to not cut an album when she's fifteen needs to wait go to like in the choir at the university of Tennessee for a year, then she can cut an album, and and now it's more like, okay, Taylor swift, Scott like sold. Ten gazillion albums under a surname or. And that she's got to come here for a year, then she can become a, you know, none of it makes any sense in our country. And that's why you've got so much so much issue. Well, the idea thing who twenty five thousand dollars to play for in a Uteem. I think the mechanics of that still kinda like four, and they really just betting on the idea that maybe just maybe Brian Bowen turns into a superstar from being the number twenty five player in his class because it's just wild to me to think that that's actually worth twenty five thousand dollars part of it is the the long term bit that we can get the guy. Everyone's chasing the next. Lebron the way when LeBron was there they were chasing the lot. Now that Michael Jordan, the next Michael Jordan, LeBron's high had a shoot shoot. He'll with Adidas now to do the numbers. Fifteen grand a year Saint Vincent Saint Mary's. Don't even care is the greatest you deal of all time because who paid nothing that we got LeBron for two years, he's on ESPN everybody. But what you've got now is not. Will brought it. So there's two things you want the Boeing you want number thirty player. He might turn into a big time. Pro is the odds are decent. Not not not perfect. But they're they're there. We can then send him to an Adidas school. We Adidas has paid a hundred and ninety or hundred sixty million dollars to Louisville to have their basketball football team. They wanna protect that investment. You can't just sit there and go I hope but Tina turns out he makes fun of four you wanna stock the punt. So that's number two. We're we're going to have is a feeder, this is just seed money. They're throwing twenty twenty five grand for nothing. Three. He's gonna play for the Michigan Mustang Ayew team play at the three play. It all our events are events or better. We can also track more, right? It's a sort of build on it self. But these days. Young kids are watching the UT like that's the cool. If if you've got the coolest team in Michigan and the best players there are a lot of fifteen year old kids who play basketball in Michigan going, man, Michigan Mustang Dida, that's who are want. They're watching on YouTube. They're watching on Instagram Snapchat. I it's changed the technologies change the whole thing. You don't have to have a you tournament on on national television like science like I said about Zion. Williamson his target group. His his followers are unbelievable. There isn't a company in America that wouldn't want one point seven million teenagers who follow religiously somebody. You've gotta pay a lot of money for that. And so he who who's following every kid every ice school basketball player in the country following because what you're seeing. Now, what you're going to see on ESPN all winter is what they saw. And they're just watching it. They don't care then it's against. Kentucky. If it's all my God. Did you see that dunk? Who cares some South Carolina high school game? So there's three levels of value and there, and it's all their whatever it is at the deed is decision. You know like there. This is how they see fit to run the business. They're better off. In a lot of ways paying him. Then just your second tier NBA star. 'cause it's really only a few NBA stars who sell shoes lebrons staff. Kyri Jordan, still, you know. But if you just. Jimmy Butler or something is not of people going. I gotta by Jimmy whatever Jimmy Butler swear. And that's a great player. So it's it's it's almost better with this grassroots stuff buying up all the school play. All of this. I guess is been at one love is like a fascinating shift in just the subtle way. That how these things are done. How shoes are sold and everything has changed. But the other part has been I still remain amazed that anybody can deny the idea like we are still having to fight with people about the mere idea that there is value that these players generate that is separate from the school that they attend it's absurd. And that that that argument now because of the technology, I believe because the social media has really changed before it was a little bit more abstract. But now you can sit there and say look Zion. Williamson doesn't have to play at Duke. And you're seeing guys take a year off, right? The play Duke he'd be he's to be a lottery pick next year. If he just sat and worked with a personal trainer, and he could've made more money selling commercials, or whatever. Now, he sees value. This is. This is you know, it goes back to the schools the schools do provide value what I'm going to become a massive stock this winter because everyone's going to be watching. This is the most exciting and interesting player I've seen play college basketball. Probably I thought Anthony Davis pretty fun. But maybe Steph when he really got it going where you're like, I got to see this. You know, they try to make it sometimes they'll try to hype guy up, but like he's doing things you're not gonna see he he he's six point nine two hundred eighty five pounds. He'd be the second heaviest player in the NBA right now. And he's got a forty something intervertebral. It's crazy. So he sees value. And I go to Duke Drake myself in this. I'm gonna I'm gonna Leech off your brand I'm gonna build myself even bigger so there is a value there. But the idea that the value is all one way is ridiculous. And at the same time if you try you and do because this kid all the people that hate Duke, and there's a lot of them. It's gonna be hard to. Hate him hard to hate them. This winter. Like, oh and eight. No. But I bet you're watching like there's value all over the place, but it is a entity equal relationship at this point. And that was always hard to do. But when you could throw that number out there and go, hey, this guy's more popular on social media. Which is where your teenage kid is watching your kids don't sit down and watch a basketball game anymore like a full game. I kids my daughter loves the NBA. She'll be like. Yeah. Man. Russell westbrook. I fifty last night year that dad, how'd you hear that on Snapchat, the NBA Snapchat? That's gets her MBA gonna sit down and watch three hours of basketball game. But that's just how it is. So she no, you know, all these people know these guys, and that's that's it. If you anybody thinks, there's no value in basketball. Just I mean, I don't know what you're talking. Yeah. I don't know who you're talking to you know, I'm not one of those people relationships you wouldn't have done this twenty years ago. Yes. He would have he would have gotten him and then been shocked when he left after one year he thought we were this long haul says he's always been about getting. These dues. But the people that have hated Duke for a lot of the reasons they've hated do Zion is going to create like a real conundrum for them because he also this is not Danny ferry. Right. Like, this is this is a Christian later this Lance Thomas. Flap the floor is it now. Here's the thing. If he does what make flip go out to slap the floor. That'll make that that'll make legitimately hard. Even if he does a somersault he wears a wo- Joe throwback or something. Eight to call you want. You're not gonna hate him. Now, you have a hard one one year reprieve, everyone can get there. Hey, hey, eight Duke get out of jail free card for one year, and he'd go back to eight them next year. But it's hard this kid now, they feel like they had a ten year process. Really were they did like not that they wouldn't slap the floor here and there, but they did look around. And they were like, hey, man. This is not really good for business. Like the way the people are talking about us. They may Joe Collins move out of the basement go move out on a all get their own gigs and replace them with James and Jeff capable and everything else in now Zyad Williamson don'ts for Duke, which we never would have expected ten years ago. Now, he's a he's the he's the Carolina player. He's Georgia Tech player or something like that UNLV. I mean, this is a bigger Larry Johnson. You know? I mean, this is this is this is I was UNLV fan growing up because they were the most exciting team, you know, and this this kid is going to be super exciting. So I mean case of smart guy. I mean. Great coach. Yeah. I mean, and yeah, you you need players and there used to be this kind of old school sentiment that I need years to build them and freshman or too young. And these guys now are playing a hundred games a year in a U basketball. And if you combine them, you're playing over one hundred games, and you can crack on AM, you all you want. But it's not that bad. Like, okay. This is the most intense thing though. But who care they played one hundred games a year there in the fifth grade they travel all over they're ready to go. You see it in in football with the seven on seven turned all these quarterbacks into game ready got many good young quarterbacks. They're on the NFL now 'cause they were playing seven on several ball when ten years old. They thrown used to play, you know, ten games for your high school that was it that you lift weights the rest of the year. Now, these guys are playing all the time. So you see see it all and and kids are ready to go. So coach K whose whose whose roots go. Back to playing for Bob Knight at West Point. Like, it's conservatives you can be realizes that. I don't care. I mean, these three kids came out the other night, and they were bang. Let's go, and and you you could win title. Canepari thought and embraced it part because he'd never choice he's at Memphis. And this was his angle, but he saw embrace it and realize the kids show up. We're ready. I don't eat Derrick rose for three years to teach them how to play basketball. He's ready day one. But now everybody sees it. And that's why you see, you know, an out dukes in the game, and you go, hey, you can go to Duke, and I'm gonna I'm not gonna try to squash. You I know you're only here for six months now, that's a really powerful recruiting catch. Plus, you got Nike behind you. You know, to whatever level, you know, take your guests. But it all works also wanted to coach team USA and looked around at that room full of guys that he would not have recruited and looked at himself. What am I doing right? There's a whole bunch of dudes that wouldn't that? He probably would not have spent the time recruiting to come to do because they wouldn't have stayed at the time period that he wanted as his program. I wouldn't say it was struggling because that would be unfair. But it was a downtime. In two thousand eight for do you looked around it? Then it was like the dumbest thing I've ever done. Let's get good guys. Yeah. Right. Like, you know, the Brandon gonna college. Hey, pretty good any help with. Yeah. These guys aren't so bad nothing. Nothing bad about incredible. You know? And so yeah it. And I think he was playing teams and losing. I mean at some point. You know, you gotta have you. It's basketball. It's not you can out scheme people in other sports. But there's five guys in the court. And you watch the NBA best player at the end of the night wins the game for the most part. That's how every game gets played. So you sit there and go all right there in it. But you know, guess he's get Steph gonna Steph Katie is gonna shot no one can defend and they and going Safeco win. And so if you have those guys you don't and yet these kids are, you know, they're not bad people because they want to go to the NBA. It's not a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with it and their families want him to go the NBA that Calipari was the was the smartest at that. And certainly goes back. You know, I mean tar and some of these other guys really always sought and saw like this guy doesn't want to go to college. Like, their dream is the NBA, and I'm not gonna necessarily gonna try to you know. Hey, take some classes and stuff. I'm going gonna sit here. Just talk about all this stuff. Like, I will get you to the NBA, and I will get you there. And that's it. I will not stand in your way. I'll do everything I can to get you there and everyone else is coming in still selling this whole kind. Well, we'll get you this dude, I want out at fast, I possibly can and embracing that and being honest about it. And I think the fans are now on it's about like, they're fine with it Kentucky. I mean, if you're Kentucky basketball fan, I always laugh like you just get a new team every year like this whole era, and they love it because the good it's like next guy. And then there was like man, I love that player. Like, he was there like five months, but you know, they. Felt that love. Anyway, even though they know Anthony Davis isn't sticking around. Like, what do you do it? Also, the math on this change in the money change like in the nineteen seventies early eighties. You probably need to go ahead and get that degree, right? Because the money you're gonna make NBA is not really them of. We're talking about a whole nother world now. Yeah. I think it was during the the bad boys thirty thirty. If you ever saw his great thirty for thirty. Rick Mahorn Mahorn Bill Laimbeer Bill beer grew up in. California's dad was like a financial planner and he's like my rookie year. My dad made more than me. Like until abroad, James junior. Brawny makes the league that ain't happening. Right. This is not. There's no way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You made good money. But you need that degree. Now, you make so much money, and you go back and get the degree. You know? It's not it's colleges is whatever. So. Yeah. I think everything's changed except the rule book. Also find that these guys even the ones that don't think college very long, especially basketball players. They tend to turn out like remarkably cultured part of it. I guess is because they they're on the circuit. And they take all these trips all this time, but they are remarkably exposed given all the count if people make about why they need to be college. Oh, absolutely. And let me say this to like, I I don't have a data. I've tried to find somebody who has date on this. And I haven't been able to. Maybe they're out there. So maybe they're listening contact me. But you look at the NBA. Okay. You sports has changed dramatically. And and in every sport parrot spent a lot of money on their kids. If you're really good player developing that player. So in basketball, you know, it's nineteen seventy five or nineteen eighty five. The best point guards came out of New York City, right Coney Island. You went down to the court kid had to play all day. He got tons of reps. You know, if you lose you get knocked off the court where a suburban kid or most rural kids better shooters, Larry Bird, Ray, Allen, those kind of guys 'cause they're just all alone shooting, and you had these like, you know, you'd add these kind of geographic if you. Well, let alone cultural kind of stereotypes now everyone's playing a million games. But the wealthier parents can spend money on the train personal trainer dribbling coach shooting. Coach all these different things. And now you look at the NBA. There is a lot of guys in the league whose dads played the NBA or came from the suburbs or had two parent households. It's not that old kind of stereo type of like going to get this kid out of out of the out of the projects and get them to my college. Like, no, it's like Klay Thompson Steph curry, you know, like that they were never in the project, you know, or or a lot a lot of these guys. I don't know that it's true. It's just feels that way. But there's a lot more trae young like, you know, dad's a successful guy, like even even Tokes Bowen like the guy in the middle of the biggest scandal here. Probably and seniors was a cop in Saginaw. You know, and and disability, but he you know, it's not like the biggest like from nowhere. You know worse we're spot, and I just think that because you could spend so much money on training players. You have the guys that are going to become elite. You might have more people that. Yeah, you know, what we we are cultured because my family took a trip to Europe when I was twelve 'cause we had them on, you know, it's just a different thing. I don't know if that's true. But I kinda just kinda noticed how many guys are in this league that that that that come from different spots than they used to and even the ones from the other places man this starting so young buddy would nine year old he'd been Vegas more times than I have. And as playing basketball, even like LeBron who was somewhat of a by these standards a little bit of a late find like he'd no one really knew he wasn't. So he's like eleven and I'm Joe, I'm joking not joking and he just played on a local Akron team. Like, boom, they're all they're they're going all over the country. And so, yeah, you're all over the country. You're meeting different people, you're exposed to more. It's not the same as that. That. That old stereotype where the kids just playing ball and the court in the middle Coney Island, and then he goes to Lincoln high, and they they know the big trip is to go to Albany for the title game. And you know, then coach Knight comes in and get some or whatever coach, you know, won't show your campus five trips you can go see Cal. I've been to California, man. It's just a different ballgame. So there's so much support. And there's so much money in these guys that they're gonna come in and find you, and they're gonna pluck you out, and you're going to have that experience and on a positive side. That's great for even the kids that don't make it. You know, what a great thing. Nothing bad about that is flying all over the country. Great. I always like what's the problem? This is my thing with this. Oh, my God at Dita's paid hugs Bowen's family twenty five grand in a summer basketball. This is a federal crime. Why what was the downside? If Koogle had come in and found the number one colder in Michigan Saginaw high. Instead after your software you once you move out to San Francisco for the summer and have an internship. We'll pay twenty five thousand dollars because we wanna see what you can do and you would help us. And maybe we. Defy you as a future employees of Google everyone in the city. Would celebrate why it's unbelievable for to be exact same thing that happened with tugs bowling. But we're in a federal court house. Like, what's what what's the problem is kid worked hard? He doesn't even know. He's get paid his dad's taking the money isn't even know he worked hard built himself up the families built them up. Everything's gone in on it. Why is this a problem? All because the NCAA says, no we want all this money. We want these kids not paid because then we don't pay tax. We can sell this. You know, it's amateurism thing to America, and it's ridiculous. I mean, you've got a federal trial based on a big company trying to help a family zagging, all because their son is so talented. It's just ridiculous. All right. And that is demand. Dan, Wetzel of Yahoo. Sports sportsmen. Thanks so much for joining. This is a lot of fun. Appreciate a man you need me novella banned all of your success. I knew you a new year when now you like megastar, you know, talking Carolina hoops, I appreciate it bay. But hey, you got to write a book Jerry talk eighty just makes some movie out that I do think you still the winter. All right, right. All right. Very good. Thanks, I laser jet much for joining us. You're on the right time. We do this day here. Twice a week. Mamane gay best say and handles everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Dan, Wetzel. Yahoo sports for joining us. We need your help. We have got a survey for the show. We wanna talk a little bit about what we're doing. It'll be about six months or so just ask you guys that you think about the things that we can try to make the show is good as it possibly can be you can fill it out Moberly. Go to swerve dot in slash, Bomani. That's s w r v dot in slash B, M A N. I also thanks to our sponsor hymns. Remember to subscribe to the right podcast describe at the ESPN app, apple podcast. Where have you get it? We appreciate it rate. Us review was give us five stars. You only give stars. I'm inclined to believe that you are hater. And we will talk to you guys next week easy. Thanks checking out the right time with Monty Jones podcast. You can listen or subscribe on the ESPN app apple podcasts or every listen to podcasts the right time with money John's.

basketball NBA NCAA Kansas Rick Patino Jerry Maguire Duke Kentucky Adidas Nola Dan Wetzel Bill south Carolina Bob Knight Dita America FBI Michigan Coach pitino football
Advance Planning

Outside the Lines

24:33 min | 1 year ago

Advance Planning

"My name is Lauren. I'm thirty three. I didn't want my identity to be the smoking mom my first experience with jewel. I do remember being like distance good. It's it's it's like a cigarette. But not I don't miss smoking. At all. Like, I can officially say it grosses me out jewel is the tobacco alternative that delivers nicotine satisfaction without cigarette. Asher lingering odor. Make the switch and J U L dot com slash sports. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical Regionical. Found guilty of paying money to players. Nobody cares. They only care if their school my staff, and I do not offer improper inducements past anger sadness, disgust regular people have Christmas. We have free agency think the plan. Here has always been set themselves up for the summer of twenty nine thousand nine hundred am looking forward to next summer. We live in Texas. But this is our state this place all of us played in the state of South Carolina. Their willingness to give something that was such a horrible tragedy is just unbelievable. What you see change your perception of any sporting event. Get this. Outside the lines on Fagin sitting in for Bob Lee, the NBA in it's infinite storylines is today's big story from studios e the freshest news comes mostly from the court where Steph curry made almost the season's worth of threes and just three quarters. He finished with fifty one points eleven for sixteen from beyond the arc and moved up to fifth on the NBA's all time three pointers list. Oh and the Lakers finally won their first game back. He was LeBron James after the victory. Great to win period. But as feels good for us to know what we've been doing over to training camp means first few games that continue to get better. I think we've got better tonight. And we want to continue that. But then there's this former NBA Commissioner David Stern during an indepth interview with Sports Illustrated attempted to explain what he infamously vetoed. The two thousand eleven trade of Chris Paul from the then New Orleans Hornets to the Los Angeles Lakers, which was orchestrated by current pelicans GM del Dem's stern said New Orleans wasn't getting enough in return, adding quote, del Dem's is a lousy general manager, and none of those players are currently with the team anymore, and he may lose Anthony Davis serves criticism prompted the pelicans to issue a statement. We are very disappointed to read the inappropriate and inaccurate comments from the former NBA Commissioner regarding the New Orleans pelicans organization as the utmost confidence in our general manager del Dem's in this storyline. Dovetails perfectly with another the tantalizing twenty nine thousand nine free agency class, which includes Kevin Durant Kawai Leonard Jimmy Butler, and apparently is impacting how most teams approached the ongoing NBA season. And even though Anthony Davis is a member of the twenty. Twenty two c class. Our very own. Brian winters believes many teams are already scheming on how to trade for the games. Best. Big, man. The future is impacting the now. And we are now joined by that very same. When her senior writer and host of the ESPN podcast. Brian winters in the hoop collective Brian. Those were really strong words from the former Commissioner David Stern about pelicans GM del deaths. Howard Stern's words landing around the NBA today. Well, I miss David Stern. Because started he said this kind of stuff all the time when he was the Commissioner a lot of it was off the record, obviously, the pelicans weren't happy. And I also part of that statement was we're glad to have Adam silver's the Commissioner now a little jab at him the thing about the history of this Kate that I think fans, especially Laker fans will not remember is that when David Stern vetoed that trade. He didn't veto it as the Commissioner of the NBA. He can be vetoed it as at that time, the defacto owner of the New Orleans pelicans at that time the pelicans were owned by the NBA because had essentially gone bankrupt. And we're taking over now whether or not David Stern should have had that role. And there shouldn't have been third party. Who was watching over the team, that's a different discussion. But he obviously made it clear that if he had the team for much longer he might have fired del Dem's seven years ago. But it is a tremendous moment. NBA history of big what if moment and clearly he did. Unlike the job that del Dem's was doing which is why does that trade, and I will say this. The pelicans are phenomenal team. They're undefeated and Dell Dem's still has the job. So I think they'll dumps gets the last laugh on this one. Yeah. And part of his job going forward is going to be dealing with Anthony Davis. But let's for right now put a pin in Dem's and Anthony Davis and talk about the broader free agency issues because you wrote this week about how teams are obsessed with the coming free agency class how is free agency the upcoming looming class actually affecting how teams are going about this season. Kate. So this is really just an offshoot of Kevin Durant going to the warriors in the first place. The league has been sort of in an a by for catered situation realizing the right now, the warriors were head and shoulders above everybody and looking forward and realizing the Kevin Durant may move next year, and that may trigger a massive change in the league and not just Durant. They look out there, and they see Kawai Leonard possibly on the move out of Toronto. And they see. Yes, Anthony Davis. He has two years left on his contract, but he has an extension zone next summer. And if he does not extend there's an expectation the league that the pelicans will have to trade him. And so there are teams out there scheming. How can we maybe get our hands on Anthony Davis? Even though the pelicans are four. No. And even know the raptors look great, and even though Kevin Durant potentially be walking away from three championships. I can tell you by talking with out there to multiple teams not one not two not five. They are really. Skinny excited about the way the league can change hands and twenty nineteen. If for no reason, then the maybe Kevin Durant will leave and change the balance of power away from Golden State. I mean, some of this is the quality of the free agency class with some of it has to be the shifting power structure that the league has gone through over the last five or six years. What exactly is it that's causing teams to really believe that the Lee can change is supposed to just feeling like things might say the same. Well, one of the reasons K is at the big markets are going to be in the game. So you're going to have the Lakers and clippers the Lakers wits. Lebron both having cap space to make bids and right now, the Los Angeles has never been more popular amongst players. You also going to have the Knicks and nets available to make a bids on top players. Now, granted the nets aren't exactly a jug or not. And the Knicks have been terrible free for years. But it's still New York. It's going to be an option then Philadelphia. Still one of the biggest markets going to have the best team. Amongst those teams going to have cap space to add another player. So part of this is it's really desirable markets. No offense to a small market like Indiana. It was going to have a big cap space. There's not going to be a major free agent probably going there. But it's the combination of of big name players the reality that a big name player may leave the best team and the big markets. You put all those together in a season where the warriors look like they're going to win. Again. You have a lot more excitement about the future than the present in NBA general. Manager's offices, right? Brian winters. Thank you very much. And people can check out the podcast the hoops collective, thanks. On Wednesday in New York. A jury delivered guilty verdicts in the FBI is college basketball pay for play case against three men James to enroll code who worked for decent Christian dockets who worked for an NBA agent. The men were found guilty on felony wire fraud charges and conspiracy to commit wire fraud. The jury deliberated for nineteen hours over three days. Now, the details of the case can feel dance and hard to process, but the reality is that this verdict strikes at the heart of big time. College basketball, a sample of the allegations that the men conspired to have Adidas pay one hundred thousand dollars to the father of recruit Brian Bowen to influence him to sign with Louisville. They conspired to pay ninety thousand dollars a mother of former Kansas prospect, Billy Preston and twenty thousand to the guardian of current Jayhawk Sylvia to sue. So this is a since been held out of the lineup by Kansas. Coach Bill self pending a review of his eligibility. In fact, if we focus in on the shifting tone at Kansas. We can get a sense of what might be happening behind closed doors at many. Grams across the country. Let's listen to Bill original reaction to the FBI's. College basketball. Pro this is from last year. I don't think our fans at his point time have anything to worry about. I'm much more concerned about our sports. And now here's Bill self just last night. When recruiting perspective student athletes, my staff, and I have not and do not offer improper inducements to them or their families to influence or college decisions. Nor are we aware of any third party involvement to do. So it does bring some closure that you know, as staff, we can certainly. You know, look forward to and prepare our team probably in in as motivated away as we have since I've been at the university of Kansas. Life comes at you fast, and many big time schools have been linked to illicit pay for play schemes, and yet coaches of schools whose names have yet to appear are still downplaying the swirling news such as North Carolina. Coach ROY Williams. This is also from last night to world not familiar with of never talked to shoe company about helping me get a player of never told an agent about helping me to get a player. I've never had a family offer not offer. But asked me for anything that shouldn't be asked for it. And so it is a world. And I don't think that all of college basketball's like that. I think that what's going on. It's very very sad. It's scary as it can possibly be not favor of what's going on. But at the same time does not go on everywhere. I've got some tremendous friends coach. Profession we've had this discussion and more people agreed with me than what's going on in that trial. And the way it goes on everywhere. It does not go on everywhere. So to offer us perspective on all things. College basketball. We are now joined by ESPN analyst Jay Bilas, Jay how does this verdict impact college basketball? Kate. I don't know that it impacts college basketball right now, the curious thing to me is that very few people, especially fans seem to care about this that if an less it is your team, and you will defend your team to the hilt or unless it is a rival team that you can point to and say see, I told you they cheat. The fans don't seem to care the NC. Double A is not doing anything about this. Because they've been asked to stand down in institutions aren't doing anything about it and claiming they were asked to stand down right now, the only people being suspended there's one player Soviet associate Kansas other than that. It's it's business as usual. What is the reaction been like behind closed doors in the college basketball world 'cause you write that the tension of media pressure is not there, but these are possible jail sentences being handed down. Yeah. And there's no question that the three defendants that were convicted on those seven counts of wire fraud and bribery. We'll do some jail time. I think it's an open question as to what the remaining defendants will do even these defendants whether they'll cooperate with the government and give up other people that that have knowledge or were involved in this, including sitting head coaches. That's really the open question is how how much further will the government delve into this because if it just stops here, which is a possibility I don't see anything changing in college sports that look this cheating has been going on forever players have been paid under the table forever. I still don't even the government takes forward, and some coaches topple from this. I don't see it changing in the long term. I think we're going to continue to see this because there's just too much money in the game for business. Not to be conducted earlier this week news came out that new balance would be paying high level prospect areas base. Really a million dollars to be an intern obeys. He's rep by LeBron James agent, Rich Paul and he's going to skip college in work at new balance before he's eligible for the NBA draft. I don't know if you saw this tweet Jay, but stadium basketball analyst, Jeff Goodman. He tweeted a quote from Syracuse coach Jim behind you see that. They're LeBron did nice job helping his client. It is LeBron's client. Right. Lebron re tweets it, he says, oh, they big man now, then Wednesday Rich Paul made an appearance on the jump. And I just went take a listen to this Kobe. I'm actually called me and apologized to me. But interesting, but my response is look again, we're talking about a system here that's been broken for a long time and these kids and the families need option. What was your reaction to seeing this Bazeley news? I'm not surprised that someone took advantage of this kind of option. It is an option, but Kate it's a minor league option and minor leagues is you know, are for the development of talent. College basketball is not a minor league. It is a major league. Minor leagues. Don't make billions of dollars. They don't have multibillion dollar television contracts, and they don't pay their coaches millions upon millions of dollars in the issue really is the economic rights of the players in until that's fixed. We're still going to see players going to college for their brands rather becomes major league rather than than going the minor league route. And we're we're still going to see one and done, and we are still going to see money moving under the table. You just can't it's kind of like Jeff Goldblum said in Jurassic Park. Life finds a way and in college sports multibillion dollar business money will find a way it always has always will. But we seeing these small shifts when it comes to the G league announcing that they're gonna pay six. Figure contracts and now this with Baizley, and then of course, the FBI investigation. Do you think that where do we go from here? And do you see any actual significant changes on the horizon? I do I think there are the Allston case is being decided right now by judge. Claudia Wilken in the ninth circuit back could see further movement where players have more control over their economic rights, even Condoleeza Rice and several members of the rice commission said after they did their work that they think that the player should be allowed their name and likeness rights to some degree. That's a lot of movement from some of the rhetoric we've seen from the answer AA over the years. So as the disparity continues to grow between the revenues and in college sports and limiting players to a scholarship only as that gap continues to widen. I mean, it's not even a gap. It's chasm. I think we're still going to see this tension. Does it mean that we're going to have a free market system anytime soon? No, of course, not. But I think I think we're going to continue to see movement toward the players having more economic rights certainly that they do. Now, Jay Bilas. Thank you for your time. And. Coming up six Houston Texans journey to Charleston for a lesson of hope and forgiveness. That's next. If you're a smoker, you know, switching isn't easy. You've tried vapes. And e cigs. They just didn't deliver the satisfaction you expected but jewel is different. It's not an e cigarette it's vapor product that actually satisfies plus Jewess simple to use. And there's no cigarette. Ash, no lingering odor as a smoker, you expect a certain nicotine experience right jewel delivers give jewelry try chick. O? J U L dot com slash sports. Switch and be satisfied. Yes. You can't do both. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical. Here's more stuff. That matters. The Minnesota Twins have hired race coach Ruffo belt Delhi to replace Paul Molitor as manager at thirty seven deli who played seven seasons for the raisin Red Sox becomes the youngest manager in the big leagues that leaves three manager jobs available. The Orioles Rangers and Blue Jays the big ten handing out penalties for last week's pre-game dust up between Michigan and Michigan state. The Spartans were fined ten thousand dollars for initiating contact with Michigan players who were on the field the pregame warmups. In addition, head coaches, Mark dantonio Jim Harbaugh were reprimanded by the conference. As was wolverines. Linebacker Devin Bush for defacing the Michigan state logo in the center of the field. In Houston last night. Donovan Mitchell paying tribute by writing more and mccloskey's name on his shoes for the jazz game at Houston. A plus e the twenty one year old university of Utah runner was shot and killed Monday night on campus, the university's athletic teams will also remember mcklusky by wearing special patches and logos in her honor. At times what happens on the football field or even before a game can seem all consuming, and the sport has even started to divide us, but a trip the Houston. Texans shared this summer, six players with owner, Bob McNair, helped bring people together after one of the worst moments in recent US history as Michael Smith tells us in this NFL films and Sunday NFL countdown presentation with the Texans witness and South Carolina. This summer is a lesson of hope and forgiveness for all of us. Thank you so much for being sports. Thank you. Well, when I mentioned it. He said count me. We'll get a count me. And he said let me tell some of the other guys. And so the number expanded. This past summer. Bob McNair and six Houston Texans players mall with ties to South Carolina traveled to Charleston to visit historic mother. Emmanuel church. We live in Texas. But this our state this place all of us played in the so, Ramone. So new he came to the goes came. They were joined they came to support the church congregation and Charleston community. A community that suffered one of the deadliest hate crimes in our nation's history. Your car's council murder and one count of possession of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime. On June seventeenth two thousand fifteen nine African American parisioners were murdered during a Wednesday night bible state. But mother Emmanuel this. She is most unspeakable heartbreaking tragedy through tears of grief. Members of the victims. Families showed moments of an amazing grace during the killers bond hearing. Curse. Want the whole team? Kiffin you we have no real. Kids. Good. During the darkest hour, the unconditional love and forgiveness of these family members brought hope and healing to the palmetto state. I heard about it. And so the reaction of the people here. I guess I was stunned their willingness to do something that was such a horrible tragedy is just unbelievable. Mcnair, but university of South Carolina graduate was so moved that he and his wife. Janice quietly paid for the funeral expenses of all nine victims. I didn't know about it. But it doesn't surprise me. Because he is the kind of may is he's a standout gothic, Bob McNair, Jim Neal again. Everything is going around, football and social media. You can easily jump to to say. Well, you know, hey, I sent this. And I did that. But he did. Away until he does and he never most take much credit for. He just does it because he has a generous. He's always been that way. And that speaks volume about him as well. Let me just tell y'all appreciate very much y'all take into time and coming over here. I think that the example it has been set at this church is just such a wonderful example for the whole country. The uniqueness. Of course. If mother manual is the response of the families, as we all know because so many people tuned in thinking that they were to hear this families being outraged and say, how dare you how did you do this or why did he do this? But instead they saw remarkable act of forgiveness and that forgiveness continues to resonate. Been able to forgive a person of what he did in the hurt that he left and this this community in this church is very powerful. If we all can just put our differences aside if from time to time and be there to embrace each other as human beings, I think this world will be such an far better place. I wanted to make sure that the words that were shared mid something that would kind radiate within their spirit that they'd be able to carry. But once again, we were excited for them to be here. And I know the kids had a great time. These people they lost families were broken, and they're still moving on this to find a way to smile. You can tell this family here everyone. So I Susan brothers soon as you walk into his touristy feel the love. This is the big for me. Thirteen years in the NFL. Then a lot been around a lotta people. But. Thanks so much for coming. Did shows you common players. We have just great players. Good experience to have them with us. I think is a very valuable experience for them. Mcnair, a university of South Carolina alum also donated one million dollars to the mother Emmanuel memorial to be built on the church grounds to honor the deceased tonight the first place Texans host the Miami Dolphins on Thursday night football. We'll be right back. I can't believe it. That Philip brought his little brother on our mission into orbit. How long until it? Get there alone. Get there. I'll I really get there. Now, I can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on my car insurance with gyco. What's this button? Do what's this button? Do what's best button? Do. Believe at Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. After PTI sportscenter at six PM eastern with Kevin and Gandhi and Keith Olbermann, LeBron the Lakers Brown Steelers rivalry less. Preview of game three at sportscenter ESPN and the ESPN app and Saturday on ABC big twelve battle Oklahoma state in Stillwater Cowboys have won their last three against the longhorns. Eight PM eastern on ABC that'll do for outside the lines. I'm Kate Fagin. NFL live is next. Wouldn't tracking the domestic doesn't Bundy you come to find them hiding under wardrobes next to soaks. Due to sudden villa scurry off what's up the fest meeting about the dust bunny? Is that ov- o- they'll not actually sanctioned creatures when they not only saves people money, but ninety seven percents customer satisfaction rating. It's obvious to them you should switch because Yesler. Switching to Geico is a no brainer. Oh, no. It's the dust is only natural Prentice on the lung doesn't run along.

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Best Of: French Fries

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

1:41:49 hr | 2 years ago

Best Of: French Fries

"Stugatz here. How are you getting ready to go out Sharon to wash off the workday styling your hair, brushing your teeth. I'm asking because it's a proud member of Dollar Shave Club. I'm here to tell you no matter what you do to get ready Dollar Shave Club has everything you need to look feel and smell your best tasting your lunch. All day is not something you want to take with you when you go out. Well, the attempts peppermint flavor of DS's toothpaste will leave your mouth feeling refreshed and last prising long time and they're hydrating body. Cleanser helps wash away the work day. It's the best part of showering. It smells awesome. And my skin feel soft and smooth, no matter what you do to get ready, DNC everything you need. And I have even mentioned their razors and shea butter that everyone knows them for right now. You can get a Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five dollars each. That's it five bucks. They've got a shower set toothpaste and toothbrush set, or they're famous shea butter and razor. Any one of these sets are just five dollars. It's the best way to try out their amazing products. Check them out today, dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan, that's dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan. Due God's here. There's nothing small about your business. It takes a lot of hard work and it makes a us difference as the thank you during dowels annual sale. Dell small businesses offering up the forty percents off, select PC's with Intel. Core processors call eight, seven, seven by doubt to speak with a small business technology advisor today, you'll get tech advice and one on one partnership to help your business grow while 877-buy-dell that's eight, seven, seven by Dell. This is the base of the donlevatar show with stugatz podcasts. I just got the most to gods of good mornings. This is what greeted me when I came in again, we'll get ready to put it on the poll just that yes or no to this it which is not a yes or no question. Stu got simply spits at me before saying good morning. I haven't seen him all weekend and this is what he spits it me. I'm sitting here praying to the gods for some guy named affair. Bear to get me three point. So I can get a Texans push. How we doing man. He's kickers out of here. All of them all of them basing Crosby you leave and take all of them with you. Justin Tucker. You're basically the only one that can stay you to Bailey. That's it. Bailey was missing them yesterday was missing. I know. But. He he gets one bad day. Okay, Crosby does it fell? I mean, not that day. Don't do that. Aaron Rodgers. What the hell, man. First of all, let's talk about Aaron Raj. Just a second. Okay. I want you guys to imagine we're struggling on clarity on what exactly that poll question. By the way it is a poll question, just yes or no. I'm sitting here praying to the gods for some guy named fair breath to get me three points so that I can get a push for the techs brain to his alter. Last night might you have cloudy JJ watt, and all these guys going out and for sixty minutes. And I have sitting there cheering for a kicker. I've never heard of just like in a push on a Sunday night. This was the thing that was quantifiable had been improved by more than anything else in words, correct. And they moved the extra point back a couple of yards and they've never. That's right. So some thoughts from yesterday titans get outta here. But they're still here man. Those two teams are we know what you are. You see the passing stats from that game to get those games out of my life and the red zone kept going board yesterday, the Niners cardinals for four yard gains. I'm like, get him out of here. I don't wanna see anymore. CJ Beth rose for four yard. I mean, the red zones more limited with the four o'clock game. So they have to go to those games occasionally. But I'm with you. I'd rather them go anywhere those games. This go to highlight just keep it on Rams Seahawks. Yes, there you go just there. That was a fun game yesterday. We had a lot of fun stuff this weekend, but actually don't want to start with football. I wanna start with them. I may, oh, God bless the sewer, man. It's back baby. That's the way you do a Dana white. You go out there and fake how, sorry you are that people were running into the streets while the rematch gets you all sorts of money because Conor McGregor can lose and still sell. It doesn't even matter because he might get into fight with a bus. Or he might enrage Habib's so much that Habib who is really, really excellent is only getting started upon beating McGregor. Now he wants to take out everybody mcgregor's camp and that guy is terrifying when he decides to jump off the octave gone. He's like here. I'm gonna fight you in the air with my feet, and he just comes flying right at you with his feet. Have you seen his recent comments still doesn't get it? He doesn't get why everyone's upset at him. He still doesn't understand. He's always what about what he said about my dad and my religion and my country. Is he wrong? She? Yeah. Yeah, you don't jump into the crowd like a video game character. Wait a minute. Thank you for saying the reasonable thing that everyone in the audience is inclined to believe. And if there are many parents out there, you should raise your children with the idea of, yes. Do not climb out of the octagon and go flying into a fight when you are a professional guy that is. The good advice to give children. Now, children go away because the adults need to talk. That was wonderful. It was pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome. I mean more of that in my fight game, not less. I now tear about Habib even though you'd never lost around and it's probably still hasn't lost. That's why like it's ridiculous to say this was Habib's toughest fight ever because I think he lost round three. I'm pretty sure I lost navy. We didn't. We never got to see the scorecards because chaos. That's right because everybody was running. I loved one of the Dana white quotes which was like the head of the gaming commission was here, and he ran from the building. That's not good. His good Dana, you're, you're wrong. It is great that the commission like Dobie finds it suspension and whatever they have to do, but please do not tell me that that's bad for the sewer come on. Man just like Khanna was bad when he was thrown garbage, cans and buses. Yeah, it was so bad. Can I ask you guys a question that was that fight? Good enough? Does it stand on its own? Would you guys be. Talking about the whole card was great, so we wouldn't be talking about it today without what happened after the fight. Right without that fight, probably so because it wouldn't be leading ahead of football. No, wouldn't be leading ahead at football, but we talk about Conor McGregor fight. He's one of the few in that sport up. Dana white has to go out and do it that way. Right? He has to show grave concern over he does. He doesn't really what does he because he's the Commissioner of the sewer come on, man, you're the Commissioner of the sewer and in all other ways, he's a carnival Barker why can't he also be a carnival Barker there explain it to me seriously because you can't punch the customers like, are you going to be a rebel, edgy sport or not? You want to be that mainstream like, you can't come out to the octagon in Vegas. We might punch the customers. It's dangerous, which watching his dangerous. It's not just their bones that can snap. You want him to embrace. That is what you're saying. All of it. It's differences make. He's the Commissioner of a sport that he is invented out of nothing. He has made the rules as he's gone along. He is turned it into a sport that sold for four billion dollars because it's on the edge. We're going to really sit here and lament whether or not fighting his dirty. Like, do you know what everyone was paying to watch their like? Did you not see the earlier fight when the two guys seemed to enjoy eating their own blood. The fight game is ridiculous. This way can Nilo eats steroid meat for months at a time, fails a test and you still gotta fight. Why does? Why does Dana white half the play? The concern to father here he's I'm on has to write, does someone. Yeah, because then if they don't think Conor is not a rebel, he's not crazy because he's doing it. You know the Commissioner's, find what they can do, whatever you want was wrestling. Doesn't work without Mr. McMahon. To have an establishment that people think, you know, some people think they're taking it very seriously to have establishment. Now about this, I, this is not believe Jana. Dana. Why does just become Vince McMahon? No sewn, cold needs a miss McMahon. I don't know what the hell you do to sewn cold out there to them. Now. I can't believe that think about what I'm about to say. Not only does it not matter that Conor McGregor for all his bluster tapped out. That was all great for everybody involved except for the winner. It's gonna be actually has his feelings hurt in the fight game because of the racial profiling that Conor McGregor did. And I understand why he would be offended and enraged and wanna fight everyone in the building there. But man, really, we're going to do in that sport feelings too. Did you see he? He obviously links. They're different dudes that whole camp. They're totally different it. It appeared as if he spat on Connor afterwards. He was certainly screaming in his direction after Conor McGregor tap. Let's he was so furious. Not validated Leary. One of the reasons that I loved what we saw Saturday night, and it was pushed out to the extremes of what we love about barbaric sports and why we still tolerate things that are, you know, it's cockfighting like what we're doing there, it's not ethical. It's not immoral. It's us giving ourselves, it's up moral. It's us giving ourselves permission to be dirty. Damn the fight before there was a guy that was pouring blood out of his. His head, and he was just screaming to the heavens about how much he loved it. That's right. Enjoying the eating of blood. So some dude took off his pants. Why? Because his beliefs were hot. Oh, that's right. That interview. Why'd you take off your pants because was about. Was about to win the. Can you could probably get away. The reason why direct quote balls are hot. Okay. Well, I mean, it's not one of the words just being extra careful. I would've won the weekend and then two things happened on that very same car that pushed him away. I just love though that that's what you have on the extremes, this Russian bought of menace. Terrifying. He was in a fight on Saturday night that he fought enraged. He is better that he's better than Conor McGregor at the thing that they do Conor McGregor was an underdog going into that fighting should have been in fact, should have been more of an underdog in wasn't just because he's Conor McGregor. He's famous and he got a lot of people betting on him because what Connors an underdog, this dude is a menace and he fought in a way that fighters rarely tell you that they fight enraged emotion gets in the way. So everything. The Connor did in the prefight got to this dude and this dude, what I'm telling you is when he was done beating Conor McGregor, he was not yet done fighting like what Mike set he was hissing. What Mike said is there wasn't relief in winning. He would've wanted to be out there for another round still beating Conor McGregor because then he went to fight his crew. He'd double stomped a member of comic Gregor's crew. And then. Conor McGregor jumped to the edge of the octagon sort of mix it up. I guess to got into a war of words with the trainer of Habib and not a lot of people are talking about this, CONNER, actually, I punch. That's why didn't press charges. Connor through the first. He didn't press charges because he wants to get that green card. And we want that rematch, but you say he'll be didn't win. He what he wanted to fight anyone rematch the biggest. The art that he doesn't win is that he's still out here telling people, well, hey, what he said about my dad and my religion, those things are wrong. Like he's still out here hurt and he thinks his fight is fister gonna fix anything. And what you saw Saturday night is Conor McGregor fought a highly trained hyena. That's what you were watching in that fight. And then hyena cannot be kept in the octagon. Sometimes the hyenas gonna jump over the electric fence because it's hungry. That dude was a wild dog and Connor actually fought him better than I think I've ever seen someone fight Habib maybe with a little bit more training. You can beat them and it gives you just that much more intriguing to a rematch. Let's stop moralizing about how bad it is that they misbehave in the sewer. It's the fight game. We all get dirty ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive home insurance getting quotas easier than ever by the way you had some thoughts in Aaron Rodgers. I, I wrote it to the road to the World Series goes through ESPN, radio catch all the postseason action. Presented by auto zone. It's on ESPN radio, ESPN, radio dot com. And the ESPN app. Here's your sports interrupdate tune in as the Houston Astros take on the Cleveland Indians game three of the AL DS today. One eastern on ESPN radio Monday night football, the two and one Washington football team squares off against the three in one New Orleans Saints tonight eighty stern Monday night football on ESPN for all the latest headlines and information tune into the sportscenter on ESPN radio all throughout the day or Don. From the Lander on the ESPN radio. So here it is from MMA fighting dot com. This is the quote from Dana white, the governor, the quote, the governor of Nevada was here tonight the governor went running out of the building. That's not good. You are wrong Dana. I put that quote up there Billy. That's not good. Is Dana right? Good or not good for the sport because I don't think you can argue not good for the sport. I really don't. You can moralize all you want. You could charge people with crimes if you like, but how was that bet explained to me how that's bad for the sport. It's a violent sport that takes place in an octagon that is a cage and a governor of the state was so scared by this violent sport after the fact that he ran out of the building. That is a great thing. I have been telling you for a while and especially for that constituency, Stu gods, that constituency minds. Is that the fight spills out of that customer continue? No, stitches. They were thrilled you remember what the Anna was saying when Connor went crazy and through Dali old bus about how we may never see Conor McGregor in this sport. Again, we may not ever see him in this country again, fast forward a couple of months. He's taking shots of his whiskey with this. This board is too hot for the government. We don't know if we can even ship fighters into our country because they're so dangerous in. I've been talking to Dana white on this show for five years about his star problem. They keep pumping Brock, Lessner full of steroids and seeing if they could sneak impasse the commission and get him in the ring. So we can all watch the circus freak. You think as this happened over these couple of days that there can be suffering involved with this win in the absence of stars. Because you got one, you got one, but he elevates everyone because that has brother wasn't that good before Conor McGregor tested him. And then all of a sudden we're like, elevate a d. as to the to the non mainstream public. Right? Just because if you get near Connor, now we're talking about Habib, but in with your star problem, if you replace your star problem with and over here, we might fight the customers over here. We're a little dangerous. This is Vegas and it's crazy and quote, the governor was here tonight. The governor went running out of the building. That's not good. I be using that footage as a promo. This is the thing. You don't need to pock situation. You don't want gunshots. You don't want gunshots anywhere near your Mike Tyson fight. But in the absence of gunshot, some dude, just jumping from the octagon with his feet, trying to hit people in the face ain't so bad reality of the situation is Dana entered that chord with one mainstream fulltime anime star in Conor McGregor and calm. Fulltime is a bit of a stretch at this point he left with at the very least to because Bieb was the most dominant fighter in that sport and sue Johnson and no his name. He knows his name now. Hell we were calling him cub EIB. I think he was calling him Bubby BuzzFeed is what I call them yet. Abib. Yeah, but Connie Iraq. Connor does elevate everyone like if if if Habib has that fight against anyone else and the same exact things happen, we're not talking about it. I really don't understand why more guys in sports aren't brave enough to take the Conor McGregor path Jalen Ramsey path because it's the way it's the way like if you're not interested in humility, if what you're interested in is selling your business becoming a star, you were more interested in that chiefs Jacksonville game yesterday than you otherwise would have been because Jalen Ramsey because before a game Jalen Ramsey is willing to tell you that hill is just a kick returner. He's willing to tell you, let's get it straight. I went to the Pro Bowl at my position. He did not. He Brady pass seems to be a pretty good one. That one is also good. Make me bicycle clown. I'm just saying they're more people on the Brady pander stand over here. You got Conor McGregor and Jalen Ramsey cashing in all these dollars because everyone else's on the Brady Pat or to stand out on the Brady path. I understand. Well, certainly a lot more people in the past, everybody's, they're doing Brady things. Feeding them if allergy and not saying anything to the press, but even Brady's been frustrated by that. He's bared his teeth like Conor McGregor over the last couple of years. Yes, and it's made more interesting. It has, right. You're out made it more interesting. That's absolutely right. I don't want to listen to Tom Brady interview. Usually do now. I'm just saying he was doing just fine when he wasn't interested. Now there's a fifty fifty chance he walks away from the interview. Give me this is great. Yes, dollarshaveclub people look at Stu gods, his face. It has still, you know, a leather emit of a face, but dollarshaveclub really fix them up this week. And as dollarshaveclub always does around here. When we actually used their products which got sometimes lazy too lazy to do, but regardless Dollar Shave Club, tell them Stu got no matter what you do to get ready for work in the morning. Dollarshaveclub has everything. You need to look feel. It smell your best. The tents, peppermint flavor of DS's. Toothpaste will wake you up and they're hydrating body. Cleanser is the best part of a morning shower really? Is it right now? You can get a Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five bucks each. That's it. They've got a shower set toothpaste, and toothbrush set or their famous shea butter and razor. Any one of those sets are just five dollars right now after your starters at product ship at regular price, yet yours today, five bucks starters said dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan, that's dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash Dan, you're listening to the Dan Le Batard show on ESPN radio ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance guests on the Dan lebatardshow appear via the shell Pennzoil performance line get triple extra protection for optimal engine performance. Shell v power, nitro plus premium gasoline. Here's your sports interrupdate and l. d. s. the brewers sweet the Rockies winning six to nothing last night to move onto the NFL c. s. Adrian, whoa, jnr rows ski reported that the heat and timber wolves were on the brink of accepting a deal that would have sent Jimmy Butler Tamiami. However, when Minnesota kept pushing for more from the heat, the deal fell apart. And finally shook j. night, son of Mary and shook night claims that legendary rapper to pox a core is alive and living in Malaysia. He also says that the alumina are after him and ultimately coming to get all of us. Shook junior has been posting all this information on social media over the past few days. It has made a point to declare that he is not any drugs. There have been conspiracy surrounding the death. Of course, it's nineteen Ninety-six when he was murdered in Las Vegas. Most conspiracy theory share the claim that the rapper. Is in Cuba. Here's these selectquote term life insurance difference. Most companies give you one option one policy, one rate, but selectquote shops. It could get you up to ten options, highly rated life insurance. Very free. Personalized quote, call eight hundred, seven, eight zero, ten, ten, or go to selectquote dot com. For all the latest headlines information tune the sportscenter on. ESPN radio ultimate today. I like the idea of him trying to hide in Cuba because a many people might look a little bit like him, but be Cuba stuck in the nineteen fifties. So like you, you can live in parts of Cuba and they would have no idea. They wouldn't have no grasp of American pop culture in parts of Cuba. Malaysia was that the other choice that we had onto pock? Well, yeah. Now that's that's not the other choice. That's what shook j. night is saying, okay, gun put it on the poll. Guillermo is to buckle live. And also put it on the bowl on the poll. Was that maximum Bortles yesterday. Max Bortles. It was all of it, right? It's an interception with a bad tackle guy, jumps fat guy jumps right over you. It's it's throwing a football because all he does I it's just they're trying to hide their quarterback and the way they game plan is exasperated because it's all just looping lobs to Yeldan over on one side and yesterday he's now Bortles is trying look away passes. This is his move. He's going to do. He's going to look off to safety by continuing to look at the safety because this is a safe passage, just four yards a Nolan gonna look this way and he hits his own offensive linemen in the helmet. That's a horrible strategy. He just not looking. He's he was doing a look away pass because he's trying to fool the defense with his eyes gamble. You saw there's no one there. Any direct. He was a to the back of the helmet and just hit him in the helmet because what does he care that led to an intersection? Right. It just went straight up and I think it was intercepted. We had two of those football yesterday. Weird random day for interceptions. And all of the kickers were haunted yesterday. For some reason, there was some strange exercises them that needed to be performed on on the kickers throughout the sport except for one Graham Gano well, let's let's examine this for a second. Here I have been trying desperately I walked out during breaks and I make important phone calls to high level ESPN executives who don't speak English. And I go trying to get the sound of the the guys who do the Carolina broadcast. Many of you were introduced to them through our show because we obsessed over the Spanish calls in Carolina that the they're funnier and better than anything. You'll hear in broadcasting and yesterday. A game between Odell Beckham and Cam Newton at the height of athleticism was decided by Graham Gano per a human being named Graham Donell. Trotting out onto the field. And let's see who's going to win here after Odell. Beckham makes one catch in the end zone and then throws the ball further downfield than Eli manning has seventeen seasons Barclay leaps, five yards into the end zone. That's right. That was decided because the result was decided as the giants desperately needed for victory, desperately it's decided by a sixty three yard field goal by Graham Gano. So the Spanish broadcast, where are we on acquiring the right we have at eleven AM. We have stugatz is weekend observations and later in the show. Chill Sonnen is gonna join us to talk about the fight this weekend. Dan Wetzel is going to join us to talk about a trial that he's covering sports and the soap bubble Verne Lundquist will join at twelve thirty. It'll be nice to hear twelve thirty legendary for sure, legendary bubble agreed, legendary soap, Buttle stubble soap bubble Lundquist. Thank you. Got your. Also put this on the poll game. If you don't mind. Would you rather not make the playoffs or exit the playoffs? The way the Rockies did. Where you just don't score any runs, you're not in any of the games you you're in Colorado, and you get shut out when and the and the blue the brewers, just embarrassed you, right. You still made the postseason though, but they was terrible. It was. You didn't get to see your team, do anything but trail. Well, they wanna wildcard game, but after that, yes, it was all downhill pretty cool that they got to knock out the cubs, right? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying yes, you always wanna make the player, especially in that sport, I know. But how quickly does it go from what that great feeling to? Oh, why were we fighting so hard for this? This doesn't feel good. It's it's about two games in seven or eight innings right there. It starts to set in. Season got going to save myself a lot of money there. Are we with this sound? Can you guys give me any updates says to whether we're going to get this out? We haven't had any problems before getting the Carolina sound of the Spanish broadcast announcers, we are. We're in a holding pattern right now. I've reached out for follow ups and I haven't heard back. So we're waiting. The amazing thing about that. Sheafs Jaguars game Mahomes didn't even play well and they want thirty two fourteen. I mean he didn't play very well. I would say he didn't play well because he threw an interception and be cause to because he was playing against that defense that the chiefs and the Rams are terrifying. I never Dan. If you tell me before the game, Mahomes gonna have no touchdowns to interceptions. He's gonna have that game. I'm like, wow, Jacksonville, one Jacksonville won the game, but football happened. Well, did you guys see what he did yesterday where he drops back to his twenty our line and tried to get hill on the opposing ten yard line threw the ball from his twenty. To their ten. He's good. That was it wasn't complete, but that's a bit Joe. What I'm saying is a bit jarring, is it not that it gets that far that you're talking about a seventy yard, hail, Mary? Have you seen many of those in your life? Have you seen in your life? Have you watched at the end of the games? And this wasn't a hail Mary. He was just launching it trying to get, you know, squeeze it into double coverage from seventy yards away as part of their offense. That's. That's. That's what was happening like it was. It seemed like a normal play. They're just, this is the play where Mahomes drops back and hurls it seventy yards and hill tries to climb onto defenders and up next Bill Belichick and the patriots Bella check with a couple of extra days to prepare for Mahomes primetime NBC game. That's going to be fun. What slows them that or whether like, what? What? If they can put up thirty? And and you know what? If Jacksonville had been able to play the game that they wanna play, which is the game that they lost in the playoffs last year which we're going to hold the ball for forty minutes and you're going to hold it for twenty. That's the way they lose games dependent on Leonard fournette being healthy. Although it always appears that he's out with a hamstring now at this point, but what's gonna do Casey in if anything? So defense? We just don't see a team. I talk. I thought borderline against Bortles I, that's right. I thought that Bortles would I thought Bortles would be able to do something against their defensive defense has been battle year. I mean, he did something he threw sixty times and threw four interceptions and hit his eight led the league yesterday in throwing balls too far to yards away from his offensive lineman's helmet into his helmet. Actually, that was a tie Ryan tannehill tied them. Thank you. I thought Bortles won the tiebreaker by throwing the foreigner sections and having that one play where he dived at the feet of the guy who just jumped over him with the football. He just given it actually Tena hills return for pick six. So on tiebreaker Ryan tannehill advance. But I disagree because Bortles who's embarrassed trying to make the tackle. And that's the four tiebreaker tannehill was not embarrassed trying to make the tax gonna draw lots. I've already decided it. Why do you insist on making the rules on that. Mony Mony Mony Mony of totally with you. The tackles the tiebreaker I mean, that was so it's the most embarrassing thing that habit of football yesterday also by the way, the bills have the same record as the eagle. We're all getting older around here, but especially Stu gut. Zajac faster than the rest of us. You wouldn't have told able to tell. Able to tell that from how I've been speaking week around here. That's why the supplements from him, which I am not using right now, which may be why it is that I'm losing my memory and getting older at the same rate is too got hymns. I need to get some. You need to get some tell him, you need to visit for hymns dot com. One-stop shop for hair loss skin care, and other wellness supplements for man. Thanks to science. Baldness Ken be optional hens, connect you with real doctors and medical great solutions to treat hair loss. They have well-known generic equivalents, the name brand prescriptions to help you keep your hair. No snake oil fields our gas station counters supplemented stead prescription solutions back by science. No waiting room, no awkward in person. Doctor visits save hours by going to four him. Just answer a few questions that doctor will review your answers and give you a prescription and products are shipped directly to your door order today, and our listeners getting trial month of hands for just five dollars while supplies last see website for full details. This would cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or a former c.. Go to four hymns dot com. Slash Stu gods. That's f. o. war h. i. m. s. dot com. Slash God's four hymns dot com. Slash cash more of the donlevatar show with stugatz ten to one eastern on ESPN radio on ESPN news. If you're a smoker, you know, switching isn't easy. You've tried vapes Andy, six. They just didn't deliver the satisfaction you expected. But jewel is different. It's not an e cigarette. It's vapor product that actually satisfies plus jewelers simple to use and there's no cigarette ashen no lingering odor as a smoker. You expect a certain nicotine experience, right? Jewel delivers give jewelry. Try check o. j. u. l. dot com. Slash sports switch and be satisfied. Yes, you can do both warning this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance with more than thirty unique coverage. Options available. Progressive knows small business, learn more progressive commercial dot com. Guests on the Dan lebatardshow appear via the shell Pennzoil performance line shales son, and going to be there and a half hour eleven thirty eastern. Here's your sports interrupdate tune in as the LA dodgers take on the Atlanta Braves game four of the NFL DS today. Four eastern on ESPN radio Monday night football, the two and one Washington football team squares off against the three and one New Orleans Saints tonight eight eastern on ESPN and finally, a Los Angeles man has been fine. Five hundred and fifty dollars in order to pay restitution for riding an electric scooter while intoxicated and knocking over a sixty four year old, but destory in on a sidewalk. The city attorney's office said Thursday that the prosecution of the twenty eight year old was the first motorized scooter driving under the influence legal case where they charge in LA. The office says in a statement that the man had a blood alcohol level more than three times the limit while operating a bird scooter. The pedestrian was knocked down, leaving a theater and suffered a knee abrasion. While the rider continued on. For all the latest headlines information during the sportscenter on ESPN radio all throughout the day. Odell Beckham 's reward for keeping ally manning a little bit younger than he actually was a couple of seasons ago is a big contract and the frustration that comes with catching footballs from a guy who is washed. You, you allowed him to keep his job somehow because you are great at what you do. They had the bad season as he was hurt as you need. If you're going to change quarterbacks, and then management gets blown out when they dared to insult ally manning by daring to bench him. We'll get to stugatz his weekend up survey ships in a second. But here's the, here's the Beckham sound that Pat Shurmur New York football giant is not here for a village. He's not going to get out the party. Not really. No, he lives run it. Is it a matter of time as you can use to. Cool, a shallow in Toronto house on I wanna I wanna go over the top. Somebody. I believe he conducted this interview with little Wayne sitting right next to him. I love that like as a hype, man just like shaking his that. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You tell them Odell. I love that. Where was that countdown. So Pat Shurmur is not here for it. You can't play that sound enough of the defiant football coach. This is the curse of macadamia. All right, listen, I'm going to answer all the drama questions right now and I'm gonna go back to what I said. All right. I addressed it with Odell. I addressed it with our team. I publicly declared that I didn't agree with his comments and I asked anybody that was interested if they want clarification go to Dell because he's a big man. Now I'm not going to give the public account of flesh on this right? That would make me small, not strong. And these are the kind of things in my opinion, when you have the locker room that we have that will help galvanize them because the locker room took care of it. And that's all I'm saying on it for Nico done. Let's talk football, not drama. I love that because it's the first time. Pat Shurmur has been a name and your football life. For a long time as first time, any of us remember him saying anything, and I just love the idea of what New York football giant Pat Shurmur thinks as Odell Beckham sitting next to low Wayne in that hair and you need him for everything you do, or you're going to get fight. Good luck with that Shurmur time. Now for stugotz weekend observations. It is time for his guts to share his skin notes. No-one indimedia will tell you what happened. But at the my voice to weekend Ave. Shins brought to you by vivid seats need game tickets. Find your seats at vivid seats. The official ticket partner of ESPN enter promo code ESPN at checkout and receive ten percents off your order today. Vivid seats. It was a big weekend for being back. The Texas longhorns are back. The Pittsburgh Steelers are back. The UFC is back, Sam darnold is back. The you is back. The Gators are back. The New York Jets are back in the mix. The dolphins are back to being the dolphin. Ally manning was back it till we wasn't imagine fighting like crazy her something that means so much to you. And at the end, your fate lies in the foot of Mason Crosby Greg, Joseph or Graham Gano, Clayton Kershaw do it in the NFL. Well, what do you mean? I always seen this before. He did it last year in the NFL make the big games. The ones that he loses listen, when you're done doing it in the NFL see s. do it in the World Series. How about that? Chris? Paul said, the disrespect directed at Carmelo is unbelievable frizz. I'm a Knicks fan. Tell me what I should respect all the money. He took all the shots. He took all the players. We gave up to get them all the winning. We did with him as our best player all the playoff series. We want, Chris, you should be more concerned at the disrespect directed at you like the fact that you need needed James hoarding to get to your first Western Conference final, which by the way, doesn't count in my personal record, been to one. Announcement basis, loaded, no outs never has one run been more disappointing postseason history than the one run. The Yankees scored top seven of game. One jock Peterson, Justin Turner. Next Muncie the dodgers have a bunch of lumberjacks talk about Yankees, Red Sox. All you want the best team in the majors plays in Houston, man, we're going soft on Mark Cuban because we like Mark Cuban shame on us because the NBA should take away his team. Oh, I'm sorry. You can't have all this going on under your watch, be the most visible owner in the sport and get to play the. I'm never around cord. How we doing well, what's taken away his team. You love take another things from people. I mean, having things taken pretty bad, what's stole your sandwich last week and you. All Disney global security? I did. I mean, we would agree that this is slightly less important than that though. What's going on, right? I mean, all is this happening on the market, watch this hands on visible owner and when it gets a little hot remark Yuban Italian was there. I'm fine with many, many punishments littlest fine with takeaways. See what I'm talking about. Going soft. The Mark Cuban, Phil Mickelson said the Ryder Cup course was almost unplayable fill the Europeans seem the play. It just fine. Lefty fountain coke. Ice styrofoam Cup. Greatest drink on the planet has to be a styrofoam Cup up. Otherwise, it's not the greatest because the one with the styrofoam, oh, is telling you those cups, STAN Texas, Oklahoma, old-fashioned shootout. Bob stoops passed along his unique ability of losing the big game till Lincoln Riley choke LA Homa LSU. New Florida, physical, I'm confused. How exactly did Nick Sabin wait so long to start the greatest quarterback in college football history, Jen, Tibo, enter the Florida ring of honor for the love of God. Man go have sex, Nick, Sabin. We get it every couple of days you're going to be unhappy about something totally a totally meaningless. And every couple of days we're gonna roll our eyes when Stanford loses they really start losing Isaiah Crowell seventy seven yard run longest run for the jets since nineteen Ninety-six. I hate them, Josh Allen can scoot. Looks like Jerry Jones will soon be in the market for a new puppet just to you want on the bump. If you're a Braves fan with your season on the line, Mike fallen wits, Josh Rosen is good. I hate them quite the conundrum for the giants. When your best wide receiver also happens to be your best quarterback. I dropped Robbie Anderson from my fantasy team this week. What does Robbie Anderson do after I drop him? Three catches hundred twenty three yards. Two touchdowns. I hate them. How did the Jaguars not see what the rest of us see saw Mahomes threw an interception had to do a double check to make sure. What I saw really happened. It did brewers have that look, regardless of who they play and where they play, then they do. They have that look. I mean, Abreu crewman I've been dodgers brewers that's going to be fought right on the poll Guillermo to the brewers. Have that look. They haven't had this look since Gorman Thomas and Robin yount. You agree, right? Also put on there. Does coach tastes better in a styrofoam coffee. It absolutely does not need to put it on there, but we can't. That should be a hundred percent regardless of who they play and where they play them late. In the fourth quarter, it's always ten, nine titans. It bills. Thirteen titans. Twelve perfect. Neither team was able to throw the ball. Blake, Bortles stat line. I was supposed to read you the stat line. I don't have the stat line because it's not on here. That's okay. Well, interception sixty one passes four hundred and forty five yards. Observations, he wrote that we're supposed to laugh at it. You didn't write the actual stat line though. Some advice top vivid up, tread lightly if only Conor McGregor good fight with his mouth Conor McGregor more bark than bite canes, Knowles top five greatest meaningless games of all time. Going to be interesting to see who the dolphins cut this week. Four and one more of an Lewis is never leaving Cincinnati Mason. Crosby more like missing Crosby. No team loves the extra session more than the Cleveland Brad's. Congratulations to the New York Giants. Her scoring thirty points in a game for the first time since two thousand sixteen Ed still finding a way to lose Graham good. No bleeping way grim. Go get the bleep out of here. The Browns could just as easily be oh, oh, and five. We all oh Kirk cousins, a big apology. And by way I mean just Dan and Bomani even though he made the game winning field goal, if on the Browns, I still cut their kicker. Mahomes had an awful game and they beat the Jaguars thirty two fourteen big breaking news here. That sheets are good. Juju Smith Schuster scored a touchdown and had a child double muzzles to you. Ju ju. I don't care. There how long you've been there and how many big kicks you've made walking through those hallways today will not be fun for Mason. Crosby Mason. Some advice do not look at them directly in the eyes courtesy of Michael David Smith. The jets had a seventy six yard pass at seventy seven yard run yesterday. They had it had a single offensive play, go seventy six plus yard in the twenty first century before yesterday her to see of me, I hate them close call the Rams almost lost to football things once in the wrong direction for the eagles since Carson has come back, had a feeling they would an absurd. Philly fans don't fight what's happening. Now. They have a big hole, they have to dig themselves out of JJ watt, two thousand sixteen one and a half sacks to. Thousand seventeen zero sacks through five games in two thousand eighteen five sacks. JJ watt. One year. Wonder at MLB tweeting out sandy Colfax giving Clayton Kershaw a standing ovation saying, kings recognize king at MLB Sandy's career earn ring. Average is four Clayton's zero at MLB, apologize to Mr.. Colfax had someone please tell me how the hell Michael Bennett is allowed to play football with his uniform like that and no shoulder pad. Speaking of hell. Brian's Dan, those are the weekend observations. Pay day. Payday is bate the kings recognized kings, please. We all have casper mattress is in our homes to God's tell them why the people listening need to do the same. Yup. Sleep goal and comfortable every night on a casper man. I love my casper mattress, and I've been telling you guys for a while. There is no better feeling that coming from a long day of work at falling into your cool comfortable casper mattress up telling you you'll pick it over Eddie mattress you've ever had. It's a high quality mattress at an affordable price. It ships for free in a small box. You could try one hundred nights risk-free. Don't love it. No problem. They'll come pick it up and refund you. Everything put casper to the test in your own home for one hundred nights go to casper dot com. Use code stew for fifty dollars towards the purchase of select mattresses. That's casper dot com. Code stew terms and conditions apply in debates this download our show on ESPN radio. Oh. Jails on, I'm going to join the show in about ten minutes, getting touch with the show any time to the one eight hundred flowers. Twitter feed at lebatardshow at two got seven ninety. Dan, it's time for straight talk. It is brought to you by straight talk wireless, best phones, best networks, no contracts Sonnen in ten minutes or so from now I forgot to mention something about the Patrick Mahomes seventy yard incompletion yesterday where he threw the ball from his own twenty yard line to the opposing ten yard line Romo said it's slipped, oh, no way this he did. He said he said he would have gone five more yards on it. If if he'd thrown a spiral. That's that's what that is. What Romo sentence. Great. You don't believe it now. I believe it. I believe, listen, I believe Patrick Mahomes get do anything at this point. I do. So yes, I believe it is said that Josh Allen has a bigger army than Patrick Mahomes. Is it not that Josh Allen is the guy with the biggest of arms in this last draft, Josh Allen. I saw him yesterday for the first time through his helmet. Yep. He looks like a fourteen year old. Boy. He looks like he looks like a quarterback who's a freshman in college hit like his uniform doesn't fit the helmets too big for him. He looks like a child trying to grow in and I know he's big. I know he's got the physical skills, eight foot, but his face his face looks like a child. It looks like it should be covered in acne. Big arm got eighty two yards through the air. Team for two hundred is I hate that game so much. And all I'm doing is talking about today. I've noticed three things from it. I was obsessed with their holder. Their holder made me laugh yesterday by thinking was a fake field. Goldman, everything at the position was every interrupted. The position yesterday was cursed except for Guinot. I told you we be yearning there come a time where we yearn for these nine six, thirteen, twelve games. It's all it is all you're talking about today. Why? Because it sticks out like a sore thumb, but it was awful. What that titans titans bills. I said to somebody that I'd be okay with a tectonic shift and plates that allowed right here. This game to just go into the sea and never never reappear like just here just drift away into the see. See if you can keep playing till the end of the time. It'll still be thirteen twelve like, no, if you keep playing the game without knowing that it's drifting out to sea and just let it keep going, it's go. It won't end until everyone dies. What the scoreboard. Will read is thirteen twelve and go to hell. All of you. The Rams, the Rams in the chiefs are fun because they're the opposite of bills and titans. Are they not? Well, yesterday were certainly, yes. Oh, five games this season, except the one inexplicable won the buffalo through against Minnesota, super impressive win for the Rams to comeback. You realize it cooks and Cup both went out with concussions, didn't matter. I was so disappointed in McVay for not going forward initially. Many call the time out anyone for it on fourth and Charlotte's like, okay, that's McVay as my boy. Well, the fourth and short, yes, it was interesting in a couple of places I actually haven't. We haven't gotten into this first of all Ed or Sean if you're gonna be Cajun, tough guy. Would you be Cajun? Tough guy on fourth in short plays like an honest to God going into Gainesville and having your Spink tighten up. You got a great defense and you just don't know you don't trust your offense, but to trust it so little that you're just running the ball and then waiting to punt. And then you're going to get beat at the end because you defense is going to wear down on the road. Your whole team identity is built on getting the yard, right, and stopping the other team from. It's all about tough guy, stuff right up. So it's all about, I wanna wrestle my players shirtless up an up until it's fourth and inches, and then everyone shrivels up because Jerry Jones is sitting here publicly criticising Jason, Jason Garrett. And that's funny like you wanted someone as your coach who has no real. In his pants like that's what you want it. That's what will hire keep extending. You have your surprised in overtime when it doesn't have any. That is straight talk. It is brought to you by straight talk wireless nationwide coverage on America's largest and most dependable, four g. LT networks series. Nothing better. They lebatardshow on ESPN radio. ESPN radio is presented by progressive insurance jail Sonica join us just a second here on the shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sportscenter update in his first game with the Carolina Panthers Eric re continued his protest against social injustice by taking a knee during the national anthem. It says his collusion suit versus the NFL will without a doubt continue. Ronald the Kunar junior at twenty years old became the youngest grand slam and the postseason the brave survived the dodgers sixty five the force game for today. And finally, insane clown. Posse's shaggy, two dope rust. This rush the stage at attempted to drop kick Fred Durst off the stage during limp biscuit sets jersey on Saturday. It's great video. The drop kick like he had him and the form was perfect, but then he just like his is feature sorta graze the back of Durst sneck and and they didn't have any power behind it. Otherwise. Would've been a wonderful drop gate. The I c p member ended up just grazing Durst after being sworn by security, the two bands of collaborative before, and there hasn't been any news of recent beef at this point. No one is sure of shaggy, two dope motive. For all the latest headlines and information tune into sports center on ESPN radio all throughout the day. Speaking of good talkers as we have talked about condom, Gregor he his placed up on on Instagram with a shiner and a whisky and whiskey in his hands. He says that he has, he's he's saying here to everybody. We lost the match but won the battle. The war goes on. I don't know what batteries talking about, but maybe it's the money battle because everybody's gonna wanna rematch on that fade or vs on in this Saturday night, paramount network, Bella tour two OH Hailstone and talks the way Conor McGregor does. But even tale sounded is told in a rare moment of humility that Connor cells fights with his mouth, even better than shale. Sonnen failed. Sound good as anyone who's ever done it. So the fate or fight here, this must be weird for you. You're fighting one of your idols. Are you not. More importantly, what does the Turkey stick just like a like beef jerky made of Turkey Turkey jerky. Oh, you made a healthy choice. You felt like you've made a healthy choice because you had four of them more than four and eight them all like a pelican. That's right. More than four. All right. Well, good for you back to the fight. Yeah, I got this week and I had a good time at the Connor fight. I enjoyed it. I mean, I know the may lay in that is terrible thing and all of that, but I'm just saying to your point. Yeah, it makes us all sports Horie mentioned. I also don't know what battle Qatar was talking about, but I'm interested in hearing them out well, but do you? I know you're supposed to say jail that it's bad for the sport and everyone's supposed to, you know, wag a finger at that, but is it. I mean, if you're selling the rematch if Conor McGregor loses in it's still the same kind of meal ticket for everybody. Is it bad for the sport? Well, you bring up a perfectly fair point and you are right? We are supposed to say it's bad for the sport of it. Look, if you wanna tell history accurately. Connor broke into a building, broke a bus sent three people to the hospital left in handcuffs, and then was given the biggest paycheck of his martial arts career. So I, I hear your point on that from the business. I for the sports side, yes, it was terrible display from the business. I. These things do have a way of working themselves out. Do you think Dana white is playing a part when he gets out there and laments how awful it is? Is he playing the part because he has to, or does he really believe that that's awful for the sport? No, Dana hates that stuff. He absolutely hates that kind of stuff. He never fails his guys out when they go through it. He must have process do it. Whatever the process said this case, I mean, he got through the police. That was the good news. The police took the handcuffs off and let everybody go, but now he's got to deal with the commission I've talked about could beat Conor fans were actually cleaning this largely because he stayed in the ring, and that's what they so bad. Dan, we seen football have fights. We see baseball fights. We'll see basketball it if you too. But when you leave the field of play, that's a totally nother scenario. And that's really what made this so bad. So let me ask you this question because he doesn't seem to understand it. He seems to think that he was in the right here. Still listen to the sound. Listen, listen to the sound jail. I wanna say Saudi to the commission, Nevada sold it to us. I know this is not my best side, you know, I'm whom I've been. I know understand how people can talk about. I jump on the cage. You know what about he thought about my religion hit. Talk about my country hit. Talk about my father. He come to Brooklyn and he broke bus. He almost killed couple people. What about these? Why people talk about I jump over the cage. Why people still talk about this? Like I know understand. What do you got for me there on. It was the greatest. What did you hear what he said? He said, why are people still talking about this? Is the perspective for your audience that press conferences south by Cape eight minutes after he did it. Why are people still. That was so funny. I fell out of care what he used the word. So why are you still talking about happen. In the back at the press Kover. I thought that was great. Ron. Our test actually asked even Jackson and that Detroit fight in the locker room. Do you think we're going to get in trouble for this? Like. Trouble understand though he doesn't understand that. Perhaps they would not like, I don't think any. I don't think anyone notice. You still talking about? No. Great. Hey, you got her sit with could be, but I, I, you and I are entertainers. So we're able to appreciate entertainment aspect of it. We're wrong to do. So the right thing to do is what you said earlier. We wake are condemned this, but look compete. He might lose his belt over this. Okay, the commission in a best case scenario. Oh, I hit him. Tell you. I mean, if he had a friend that could get a hold of the governor, he served six months. Okay. He's more likely to serve a year if he serves a year. Dana scripted data's already said that. So I mean, this could cost him his championship. It cost a glorious moment. Abacha the guy winning Olympic gold medal and not getting to go on the stand. I mean, this is a really bizarre thing and being poor sport. We do see that sometimes Dan, we don't see the winter, the poor sports. The whole thing was so bizarre. What? What do you make of the part though you've told us before the fighting emotionally? That's no good. And yet it seems like once the fight was over, he was just getting started like he's still enraged like he's each seems to have thought very. Personally, yeah, he sure does. And I think he compose himself. I think you saw him get fatigued. Don't forget he'd lost the third Brown and sure that's going to happen. You're going to lose some rounds here there, but he's never lost one before. He was twenty six, oh world champion, but he had never even lost around. So what I offer to you is that he slowed down that he was tired at the fatigue and the pressure ticket to them, and that's very normal human thing. I think that we saw that as far as coming to life and wanted to get redemption for things that were said about your vision and your father to quote him, how about doing a little of that beforehand, how about helping with the business? How about helping to fill up that seventy thousand seater REBA? I just everything was out of order. Everything was misplaced and it's gonna cost, and it was a big mistake. Have you ever fought emotionally ever. Yes, yes, I have. Dan, I can't control those things even even in the sport. I get a lot of credit for being sport. I get compliment. Oh, you guys from so tough. And how do you do it? I get some of those things and I appreciate them. But the other side of it is I feel every human emotion from fear to happiness to sad, the scared. I feel a mall. I don't have an ability. I haven't -bility to cope with it and move forward anyway. But I have no other superhuman strength, but yeah, sure. At bought emotionally, I get tired fed. That's that thing that thing with with pressure or emotion we're speaking about is you just fatigue faster. Did that happen to you in the Silva fight that you carry till till the fifth round. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. You haven't? I've dealt with it many times, but I think that's a fair example. So belt or two. Oh, eight, Sadar and sound in this Saturday night. Paramount network is where you find that I'd asked you at the front, you felt the need to point out that I can eight some Turkey sticks, but fighting fate, or are you going to talk trash to fade or is this an idol of yours? Because you're you're fighting a guy that was at one time considered the biggest medicine, the entire world. Yeah, I, I don't know that he's an idol of mine, but I mean, I do. I do expect his career, but I want to beat him. It's the motivation. I, I'm jealous of the things that he accomplished. I, I wanna take those. I, I wanna take those firm him it myself. But as far as talking Trent, I don't think so. He pretends he doesn't understand the language and I tend to believe it. I don't think that he's bilingual. I think he only speaks Russian. So who would it be talking? You'll be like talking to a wall. Do I do when you fight this person? Like what is specifically fighting this person at your age? Does it mean anything because of his resume. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I I liked that he's got a good resume. You gotta understand that. I'm not a bully. I don't go with the fights that I know I could win fade or can't beat me, but I could beat him to and he's got his position that I've got mine, and that's what it's going to be a battle over and we got fifteen minutes to figure it out. What if I get him to the spots I want him, he's going to be in a lot of trouble. All right, buddy. Good talking to you. Thank you for making the time for us. We always appreciate it. Good. You fellas enjoy the Turkey sticks. Time to justify our in recent -able salaries. We are one quarter of the way through football season and people are already angry with you. You think it's bad. Now we barely started. That's why you should make the people you love and people who are currently angry with you, happier by getting bouquets from one eight hundred flowers. Tell them guys. Yep. 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Nine plus another dozen and available for free is an unreal deal to order a dozen red or multicolored roses, plus an extra bouquet and vase for just twenty nine ninety nine go to one eight hundred flowers dot com. Click the radio icon. Enter code. Dan, do it today. It's one eight hundred flowers dot com. Code Dan fief Amelia Dan on his stool will be back on ESPN radio, Dan. It's on the look at the next generation. Here's a staff for you. Giants running back saquon Barkley now is five consecutive games with over one hundred yards from scrimmage to begin his career that's time with Adrian Peterson who earn history in two thousand seven. For second most in NFL history, the record belongs to Kareem hunt who went seven straight games last season. That's a look at the next generation brought to you by the Home Depot, the next generation of home improvement with everything you need to do project smarter, the Home Depot, more saving more doing. I spent the entire break listening to a raging argument that included a billing. Loudly taking up for in advocacy, the merits of Bolivia. Every don't tell me, don't shake your head. No, at me, that's not what I was doing. You said throwing up French fries after eating a bucket of French fries at McDonald's childhood was better going out than it was coming in because it didn't have any of the guilt. Don't tell me that I'm doing this wrong by by saying you were, you were pro Bolivia during the break that seems unfair. It's not exactly what happened. You remember bucket of fries I was best. Oh my God, Dan, McDonald's. He's have thing called bucket o fries. And it was basically like an extra large like even bigger the next large soda, and it was just filled with fries. And I was telling you, I remember one time I went and I got a bucket of fries, and then I went to the science museum, went to max, watch this movie about rollercoasters and then I threw up the entire bucket of fries, but it was just as good coming out of the woods coming in. Right? So again, as I said, the merits of Bolivia. Mike, Ryan says that the reason his nipples look, the way they do is because of childhood filled with twenty mcnuggets and bucket of fries. Everyday mama take me there after school. This was after school lunch already. Bucket of fries. This started because to God said, what's the best fries in paper? What's the best? What is the? What is the best fries that you would get in a Cup and he, he nominated Nathan's Mike came back with checkers, and then Billy was suddenly pro bulimia, I think Nathan's has they have the best fries in a Cup and the best fries in a bag about that and listen, what Billie is saying is the bucket of fries going to rollercoaster. You throw a mob, it's a win win. You get to enjoy them on the way in and you get to enjoy even more on the way out. And that is a true win-win for Billy. And also during the break, Mike Ryan said that the greatest gift that can happen in anywhere in the world is finding an onion ring on your fried. Oh yeah, the light, nothing tastes better because then you're filled with regret, oh, man. Next time I'm getting fries and the onion rings because this onion rings so good. And when you get the onion rings and one fry makes it in there, you're like, oh, mariner fraud mazing. He put it on the poll is the greatest gift that you can find anywhere in the world finding an onion. Ring amid your French fries guys to it's along the lines of the onion rings your fries. So you go to a fast food place. You ask for packages of ketchup and Mike catch up sometimes is like all stuck with Honey, and I don't know how that happens. I've never ordered Honey at any of these restaurants, but they're always stuck together by Honey, and then it gets all over my hands free to leave. Now. Thank you. Go ahead and go less yourself out. The things that he thinks are interesting, right? What does that have to do aware? Does the honeycomb from I, I mean, seriously, it's happened to me before. Where does that Honey come from? I have no idea what has happened to me. Should I leave? He does bring up an interesting point though, best sauce outside of the catch up to the front. Is it half to do with what we were talking about? All listen. Sometimes I go for me. This is just me. Okay. I will go with sweet Honey, barbecue sauce over catch up being my frie, you and I, we were going to be brothers for a second. Once you I said sweetheart was like he's a sweet and sour man, Sweden, Sweden, sours. Well, it wouldn't be my first choice. It would be Honey barbecue, sweet and sour. If I can't have catch up, Honey barbecue sweet and sour. And it goes without saying ranch is up there, but shouldn't even belong in this class because most a lot of fries, the primary sauces ranch. Right. Can I get you guys to debate this. I'd like to spend a you guys, very guys have diametrically opposed condiment opinions. Is there any place that we can find thirty seconds of debate? I think the biggest part of that we disagree on is his irrational. Take that Nathan's is the best friend that comes in a Cup. You clearly don't like seasoning because the checkers fry is outstanding, and arguably just the best general fry you put it in a Cup, and you sack it against only others that have cups and it's a win easy for checkers. Seasoning is cheated, okay. The fries needs to be good on their own. Okay. If you need seasoning, it's like steroids, okay, you're either good on your own or you're not. And McDonald's fries van those things, Wendy's fries. Those things are good without seasoning. All you need is catch up and that's it. And that's the sign of a good friend, fine fat. We'll take it one step further. No catch alleys. Oh, that's the sign of the greatest fry of all time. Nathan's don't forget. You can hear more of myself Dan and a stew weekdays, starting at ten eastern on ESPN radio on ESPN news support for the ever torture podcasts comes friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. Let's talk about buying a home for a minute because of rising interest rates is a lot of unpredictability when it comes to buying a home these days, it's causing a lot of anxiety and stress for a lot of people. Well, our friends at Quicken Loans or doing something about that. They're calling it, the power buying process. Here's how it works. Wicked lows will verify your income, your assets and credit in less than twenty four hours to give you a verified approval that gives you the strength of a cash buyer. Then what you're verified, you qualify for their all new exclusive rate shield approval. This is very cool here. I, they'll lock your rate up for ninety days while you shop. Now, here's the best part. If rates go up your rates stay the same. Same, but if rates go down, you're right also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thing you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Simple, could a rocket mortgage dot com. Slash Stu gods rate shield approval only valid on certain thirty year purchase transactions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on quickenloans data in comparison to public data records equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states NMLS consumer access dot org. Number thirty. Thirty ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance. Damn Wetzel. Yahoo sports, get to join us in just a minute here on the shell Pennzoil performance line. Here's your sportscenter update. Tune in as the Boston Red Sox take on the New York Yankees in game. Three of the AL d. s. it is tonight. It's seventy eastern on ESPN radio Monday night football, the two and one Washington football team squares off against the three and one New Orleans Saints tonight eight eastern on ESPN and finally. Bank see shared a video over the weekend that since went viral, showing how he installed a shredder into a picture frame, which was used to destroy one of his paintings immediately after it sold at an auction for one point, one million dollars. For all the latest headlines that information during the sportscenter allnight ESPN radio all throughout the day. Tweeter writes in here before last weekend and put this on the poll. Guillermo people can follow our polls at lebatardshow on Instagram now and on Twitter at lebatardshow before last week. And did you know that Ed or drawn could go into a swamp and lose. I mean, he's got to the point spread should have been larger in that game. Just present your own was going into a swamp, not enough people are paying attention to or covering this trial, but then Wetzel ends up in interesting journalistic places. You could catch his yahu sports college podcasts available now on apple podcasts, sedan setup for the audience. What it is that drew you to sit in a courtroom. Well, it's, it's oppose the absurdity a little bit of certainty in my opinion of the case. And then there's just the the fact that everything that we all know and suspect about college sports is really being laid bare in the in the court testimony. 'cause they're going under oath, and people are are, are speaking frankly about how the underground economy works, maybe even a level that you didn't expect them in last week, we found out that Brian Bowen junior was paid twenty five thousand dollars by Dita's to play one summer of a u. basketball before his junior high school. I mean, that's a heck of a high school summer job. That's crazy that the the some as that that high and it's that common that comment, we all know it's common. We didn't know inflation and taken it to their. Yeah, this is not the number one player in the country is not the number seven players number like twenty eight, and that's. What he got. So you get details that I, I think both you and I are pretty aware of how it works and you go man, twenty five grand for the summer like, wow, all right. So you know, there's a lot of a lot of details and stuff that come out that are are fascinating and and sort of dirt on college sports. And I'm always in favor of a light getting shown on it and the absurdity at the sport. And you've started amateurism when there's just nobody on the ground that actually following or believing in this thing practically damn, what was the most shocking most shocking? Most shocking revelation. That one was pretty big there was he got paid two grand a month to play a prep school in Indiana. So you know a lot of people pay to go to private high school. Imagine vacant to brand a month, high school that was good. The allegation that that Oklahoma state offered a hundred fifty grand eight thousand dollars for a cause, which I don't really understand why wouldn't you put that in the main payment but and and help with and ability to get a house basically by him a house in Stillwater family, all the go play for for Oklahoma state. Again, this is this look good basketball player. He's a good starter, but he's not the Andre Eytan or Zion Williamson or anything like that. That's a lot of money for Brian Bowen play basketball. And that's what his dad said he's offering. So it's, it's it. Some of the numbers are pretty astounding. I think because you're not so far we're not dealing with, you know, top five player in the center. I think all of us would expect and say, you know, you get you get a top-five kid, you get the Andrei Eytan, he'll seven foot one you're going to, you're going to do really, really well. Like you sit there and say, that's not much you know starters going for holy cow. What's what. Just just so that we're clear again, the who sports college podcasts available now on apple podcast, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City is okay. Oh, Oklahoma state is okay. They're okay. But they're not. They're not exactly a juggernaut. So the going rate for college basketball starter, then just to be clear and Wetzel according to testimony under oath, the going rate for a college, basketball starter is exactly what what you said there. Some about that. I mean, he ended up getting a hundred grand from Dita's to go to Louisville. He was dealing with a hundred thousand dollar offer to go to Creighton. We're talking Creighton now it was fifty grand to go to Arizona. So you know, for a kid twenty five to thirty five in the country. That seems to be the rate yet many offers to go do whatever you really wanted. Great. Yeah, so great. I meant so. So what have you seen this laid bare like this anywhere before? Just like this now? No, it's it's never come to it, but we've actually had the trial and you've got the dads sitting on the sitting on the stand just saying, yeah, this is what I was offered. Yup. This is what is offered and and it they'll be more details to come because you only got halfway through his d'arret. And the defense will cross examine, I'm there's three defenses here. There's three guys on trial, and they will try to show every detail possible because the three guys that are on trial, two of them work for Dita's. One was kind of a runner middleman would the agent. And their thing is they've been charged with fraud and wire fraud and conspiracy for by painting or or greeting to pay Brian Bowen. They make the bribe eligible and Louisville, which signed him has been defrauded out of a player. So so they're basically the US attorney's office. Basically co defying NCAA rules which alone is it goes. But they're saying everybody's been paying this guy since his fifteen years old. We're not hurting the player. We're not hurting the school. We're helping the school. We're helping schools recruit players that they want. So you're going to get every detail possible because they're going to be like, look, you got twelve different schools off at this guy money, some gave a grand, take it on a Fisher visit or this or that whatever they come up with. So there will be even more details you just you always hear it obviously has been stories. I mean, nobody's shocked by this, but not when you just have dad's sitting there saying, yeah, bang, bang. Thank guy like that. Because what else is he gonna? Do you not gonna lie in a federal trial? When you have been charged with crimes, he's just a witness. You can tell the truth. None of this stuff you know is really that important to him. Dan, do you think there's a single program out there? Not bending the rules to get players a single one. While my friend Jerry Tarquin used to say nine out of ten schools cheat in the other ones in last place. He knew it before anyone though. Right? Did he not? They just aren't winning. I would say this. I would say this. I like you're not gonna hear like, oh, Mike, chef ski drove on my house and canopy one hundred thousand dollars at a back. Like those things don't happen. But every single top player has agents around in financial planners, have people trying to pay their friends, their highschool, coach, whoever. If you're a top player, you have the opportunity to make a ton of money you. You're going to make a buck that offers gonna come in. Is it possible that some never accept anything? Yeah, it's possible. Is that probable now, this is the United States come on, right? So you may not know. Like, let's let's take the Patino defense and say, Patino really didn't. You know, let's take them at face that he didn't know Dita's paying the hundred grand, but you kinda going to suspect it. If you don't, you go, why isn't a shoe company trying to get this top player? Of course, they're going to try to get them. Of course. I mean, if Brian Bowen getting twenty. Five grand to play a summer of a ewbal ball after his junior year, and it is. It is. It's funny, the whole van wars. Van wars de'andre eight or you know, anytime I don't wanna put names and they're not in the trial, it's not fair, but just any top kid and where do those top kids go? So us chef ski a Calipari a Bill self and they may not be in on the deal, but do they know something's probably going on. I mean, there's no way not to so is anything clean by NCA standards? No, that doesn't necessarily mean you know, I think there's a distinction. I, you know, you may not know, but that's how it works. If you don't recruit these guys, you lose what's going to become of this trial thirty seconds or less. I don't know. I don't know if the government can win and the fed usually win. I don't like their case too much right now. It's my bias too though. And in terms of NCA stuff, probably not much. I don't think I think the end state is wants us to go away and they get back to the games to pretend this isn't happening Dan. Thank you always excellent. The who sports college podcasts available now on apple podcasts. He is consistently doing excellent work. Thank you sir. Anytime. Then is done for so Matt's Dollar Shave Club, it's not just your face, manage your entire body. You can keep your body feeling clean, tell them Stu, guts, Yep, no matter what you do to get ready for work in the morning, Dollar Shave Club has everything. You need to look feel and smell your best. The intense peppermint flavor of DS's toothpaste will make you wake up in the morning and they're hydrating body. Cleanser is the best part of a morning shower. It really is. I love that stuff. And right now you can get a Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five dollars five dollars right now at dollarshaveclub dot com slash and they've got a shower set toothpaste and toothbrush set, or they're famous shea butter and razor. Any one of these sets right now or just five dollars after your starters set product ship at regular price, get yours today only at dollarshaveclub dot com slash dance. You're listening to these sweaty donlevatar shoe on ESPN radio. If you missed any of the show, you can listen to all three hours of the Dan lebatardshow on demand in the ESPN app was our Miami only hour. That is before the show. And now you can subscribe to our best of podcast. It's all valuable. The listen to add of the ESPN app if you need flowers, fast one, eight hundred flowers dot com is here to help with an amazing offer order a dozen red or multicolored roses for twenty nine ninety nine get another dozen plus a vase. Absolutely free to order go to one eight hundred flowers dot com. Slash ESPN the legendary soap bubble Verne Lundquist joins us in fifteen minutes college football wash all over you and you will feel good about Saturday's, and you will ignore very quickly that you were just told that if Creighton wants a starter, it's a hundred grand. That's where we are ladies and gentlemen, not not not not. It's that's for Creighton to get him. So we were talking about during the break. We were laughing about just hypothetically, right? Not none of us making accusations here, but let's just assume that wet sold who's in a trial, listening to this testimony has a good governor on what's going on and the twentieth twenty eighth best player in the land will get a hundred thousand dollars to play. At Creighton, we'll get offered multiple hundred thousand dollars. What does Huggins show up with as the bag. When he's delivering the bag of cat, a bag of bash the back. What is the bag of cash or should we do this more responsible way and just do it who's the duffel bag? Like who among the coaches is the duffel bag, which way do you want to do that we could do the duffel bag. I'll just I'll answer the first question though because I do believe that Bob Huggins just comes with a standard Brown lunch bag. He just put a stack of wild standard Brown might be a hundred ground or poop like dog poop that you put on the doorstep when you're on fire. When you're trying to play the prank on your neighbor. I'm thinking there's some cooking oil at the bottom of the bag to some grease. A bag of fries would be good back in in a bag. In a bag of fries. Brownback needs a bag. He has the cash. She needs a bag. He stops at a fast food joint gets a bag of fries. Eats the fries sticks the money in the bag. You doesn't stop off. It's been in the car a month. That'd be a funny game show. Right? So like if this becomes legal, so this guy says, I'm going to go to this school and then there's two bags you need to pick a bag at one as poop and one as a ton of money. Wouldn't that be exciting. Yes, but it's not the game. We're playing gamma. Try to stay with the games that were playing now you could stay here for now. I'm tired of throwing out of that would be a fun game though. Our our conversations not interesting enough for you like you need to take them somewhere else when we're talking about onion rings and French fries. And now you start asking us about the Honey that sticks together, your catch catcher packets, like a, we boring you are, we are we getting in the way of your work day. It's light. Let's make a deal kind of where there's a Zong and then sometimes there's a lot of money. So you're there, you know, like, oh my God, how many songs so they're going to be, should I wait for door one, two or three? That's how they should do recruiting. That's what it should be. Right. See, I like this. There's a Duke big and there's a Cincinnati bag, and there's a Carolina bag and the recruit opens up the bags, and then he makes his decision and I'm guessing he's gonna decide whichever bag has the most money that's going to just a guess. I mean, that's what I would. You know, it's been saying with me ever since you said it. I've never had Honey on my ketchup packets. I don't know what you're talking about. It seems so foreign to me. So who do you magin comes and shows up with a just a gleaming, silver, suitcase, filled with cash. Coach Cal because he's Louis bad guy, coach cow, wait, what is cow going with? Well, hypothetically just pag like anything like t shirts, like anything. You know when my theory would be this, the the, the silver, sparkling, suitcase, filled with cash. That's something that's still delivered by Quin Snyder just because of old habits like he just likes doing it. He misses it. That's how we pays his cable Bill. The duffel bag I got Bray, right? It's Bray. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yet spray. Good. He's coming with the duffel bag. He's just throwing it on your lawn taxes. You're saying that Huggins doesn't waste time with a bag. You just hand you the cash go, really? That's good. I or the poop. I, I love this game, which is wildly responsible. But I mean, we're, we're coming off the reported portion of this, which is a very credible journalists in the middle of a trial where people are swearing under oath. Just told you that Creighton has to go one hundred grand for a starter according to testimony, which is bleeping crazy, who puts the cash in a cookie jar, and I'm not going to go with cash because that's reckless. But if you were going to give if someone were to give something in it, cookie jar would probably be Jim Larranaga. Cookie jar, why he's coming each trying to be grandfatherly old. Even though he's the same age as coach. He's coming. He's coming into date, your grandma, and he's bringing the cookie, the cookie jar filled with cat. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Jim Larranaga is not happily married. I am suggesting at all of these college football coaches are dirty by association jump by being in that game. Yeah, you choose that as a life. Look their suitcases and bags of cash all around you and you are playing, you know, a rigged money game where you get all the money, and then the sneaker companies you pretend like I don't understand how Patino can have any plausible deniability, like, how do you get the starter? If you know other people are offering money, like, how do you do? They keep Patino in the dark. So he thinks he's so great that he's just landing these recruits. They gave him an Dr because he's in a casket. TIMMY, more of our show on ESPN radio ESPN. Radio is presented by progressive insurance Verne Lundquist. There's a legend on the line, man, very excited for this. He has a book out. He's gonna. Join us. Just a second here on the shell Pennzoil performance line. This is walkup song. Here's your sport center update. The sons of fire GM Ryan mcdonagh. Twins. Third baseman Miguel scenario was arrested in the Dominican Republic after driving over police officers foot breaking the cops leg in the process while driving without a license plate and carrying proper identification. And finally, a law has just passed making default password such as admin and password illegal for electron ick firms to use in California beginning it two thousand twenty. Here's these selectquote term life insurance difference. Most companies give you one option what policy? One rate, but selectquote shops and could get you up to ten options from highly rated life insurance for a free personalized quote, call eight hundred seventy eight zero, ten, ten, or go to selectquote dot com. For all the way to said lines, information tune into sports center on ESPN radio all throughout the day. His new book is called play by play, calling the wildest games in sports. It's going to be available tomorrow. I want to ask him for the most embarrassing on air moment that he's had, but I'll give him a minute to think about it. And in the interim we will play for you asking that question on another broadcasting legend VIN Scully back about my third year. Yeah, about nineteen fifty to the dodgers were playing Cincinnati and Cincinnati had it outfielder name Lloyd Merryman I'll never forget it. And. Hit a ball foul and my mind told me to say, hot shot, hit foul. Never came out that way. And everybody in the booth fell down as I was absolutely mortified. And the reason I remember. I started filling. He's a former Marine Corps pilots combat and Korea I did on on that that really. Had to be considering how young I was. Yeah, that was about it. Thank you for joining us again play by play calling. The wildest games in sports is going to be available available tomorrow. Thank you for being on with us. Do you have a story to rival that one. You know, Alison, your producer just in making an introduction. It's live survey. Sharia don't curse. Up. Who is the Tel Verne Lundquist not to curse before he goes on the air. I was. I was not offended. I was surprised. Yeah, I've got one. I can't spend the sale like VIN Scully can, and I'm trying to think of a proper way to to put this on the air without embarrassing all of us. I will tell you this it. It was a juxtaposition of concert. And it was a Monday night game Cowboys and Philadelphia, and. What I intended to say. Was the Cowboys. Philadelphia Eagles are ripping the Cowboys, punt coverage to pieces. Oh, no. It did not come out that way. Oh, I'm sorry about that. And and and to to to eat not candy, VIN Scully, nobody in the world. But I will tell you this when he said something about being mortified and getting no help. I mean, I did have literally an ice cold shiver go from my feet up to my armpits and I looked over at Brad sham expecting help, and Brad head. He's back turned to me and was just about the care. He was laughing. Well, my producer I'm for sure. It's going to help me. Gary Brandt was his name, and I looked over and he was on his hands and knees in the back of the booth. No help whatsoever. You miss it all bad. Is there, is there anything? Is there anything that you miss about because we miss you? Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this thing CBS was so great with me in terms of of, and this doesn't happen to everybody in this craft as you guys know to walk out with your head held high and and they allowed me to do that. I was not consulted on my replacement, but I was asked for my input and they, they suggested Brad nester, and I said, couldn't be better. I've, I've admired I've known him since the early eighties and I've admired him as a person. He and Gary Danielson had worked together before, and I just think it's been a seamless fit and I've watched, but I missed one game this year because we were on a of pardon me. But on a river cruise in Europe. Now, that's something I couldn't do for them is forty five years, but I'm, I'm regular and I've told them both. I'm now doing what thousands or millions of people do on Saturday afternoon. I'm sitting in my bend with my feet up on the coffee table and screaming at the announcers. Will you please shut up. You really what is what is Verne Lundquist greatest criticism of what sports broadcasting has become. Argumentative contentious. I'm a storyteller guys. I had been all my life and how I made my living. And my my perception of the role of a play by play guy is to set up the analyst far Viet from me to to pretend that I've got the wisdom or the knowledge of the background of the guy, Gary Danielson or Terry Bradshaw or Dan Fouts the the list goes on. I think I'm setup guy and I'm a storyteller. And my role I think is to give people who are listening or watching a reason to care. And you do that by telling stories about the team's about the owners about the players and and not taking sides, but I want you if you're tuned into Georgia, Alabama. Gamma. I like you to care about the people and the and the schools that are playing and I, I don't. I'm stuttering here because I don't know quite how to say this, but I don't enjoy play by play guys who suddenly analyze the game. That's why you got the guys sitting next to you, burn lung with us. You're on ESPN radio. His new book play by play, calling the wildest games in sports. We'll be available tomorrow a Vernon. One such a big fan. I'm wondering, did anything before after surpass calling Tigers chip at Augusta for you? Well, yeah, it did guys. I would. I would. I'm an old fogy now, but I'm six months younger than the guy who won the masters in eighty six a certain Mr. nNcholas, and he took the lead on that magical Sunday with a twelve foot birdie on the seventeenth hole, and I got to be there for that. So I I've been so blessed and I'm asked a lot. What? What was your favorite call? Well. In my case, it's Jack in eighty six being number one, tiger in two thousand five one eight and a very close one, and it's probably a generational thing for me. I mean, I know Jack a heck of a lot better than I know tiger and we've, he said, once I've never forget him saying this on video and a tribute at the university of Georgia. I made the putt and he made the call. So we're joined at the hip for life. There are worse things in your life then to be pitch to the hip of Jack Nicholson. Did did anything happen in football? Like do you have these rankings as you've had to order your life for this book play by play, calling, the wildest games in sports, my guess is you've had to revisit some of these things. Do you have a favorite coal from the from the other sports? That's non-gulf. That's really easy damage to go back twenty thirteen. Last regular season game. We get number one, Alabama, at number four, Auburn, and against all odds. Nick, Nick Sabin asked for, and after review was given one second back on the clock, and it was tied twenty eight all and he called on a young Richard freshmen who had attempted to two field goals as life. And he was asked to attempt to fifty seven yard and. Chris Davis was nine yards deep in the end zone and Chris Davis returned it for a touchdown. And the reason I guess is so my one of my favorites is that Gary and I- intuitively and this is another of my pet peeves about guys who do this for a living. We intuitive. We didn't look at each other. There was no. We just shut up and we laid out for a minute and twenty one seconds which is in the turn ity and I knew I know that time because I've seen this thing many, many times during which time Craig, Craig silver, and Steve Milton, our guys in the booth and the truck should have won an EMMY. They didn't. I don't get it. But particularly the director was conducting a symphony, and he made twenty one camera cuts in that one minute twenty one seconds and a land. Selling a book and we loved that you have a landline. Perfect. Is what you should have. You need to have a landline. I'm hoping it's a rotary phone. Actually, I'm on the landline hotel. That's my cellphone and I know what it is. It's a book publisher of a magazine publisher, asking me if I want to re up for three years. Let's let's go around the room here real quick. Billy. Do you think that Verne Lundquist curses? Do you think he curses away from the the field? Yes or no? Only 'fiddlesticks is a curse. Okay, ROY. What about you you think so? Absolutely. You do think so, Mike. Do you think that Verne Lundquist? Can you imagine him being enraged, yes or no? On the golf course. Okay. On the golf course in raged Vern, what does he answer here? An enraged enraged, cursing Verne Lundquist is that exist not in rage, but with a full capability of using words, it should not be entered in front. All right, good night. Thank you. My my wife is standing right here. You want me to put her on you retired to spend more time with a sure we'll talk to him. I'd like to ask her wanted enraged, cursing Verne Lundquist looks like. Red cheeks beat red? No, I I have a temper I truly do is Nancy can attest. I try to keep it in check. Shocking shocking. No. Play by play by play calling, the wildest games in sports. It is available tomorrow. You wanna tell us before you get out of here Vern the emotions that went into writing it. Yeah, and and let me correct. Something may had a slight delay one week in the publication date. It's going to be the October sixteen. And the reason I'm tool by HarperCollins is they had an issue with the binding of the book. Who knows this has been an education. I've never been through anything like this and their demands that are made in terms of time limits that you have. And in all candor, I wanna I wanna let you know. I had really serious back surgery in November. I'd put it off or a number of years and and I needed to give my position my surgeon, six months for rehab. So once the retirement happened. We did this back in November at the segment clinic in Vail, highly recommend, and there were some issues. And so when when the process was to have begun, I just didn't have the energy or or the the interest in getting this thing done. So with the agreement apart for Collins. We hired a guy named Gary Broza from evergreen Colorado who had written Tony LaRussa 's book among maybe twenty others. And so he is the ghost rider on this. It was a heck of a process. We would get together four times a week. We'd take three daybreak. We've talked for an hour and a half. Sometimes two and our conversation was recorded in a co center somewhere in Iowa. I'm sure it was field of dreams had to be, and and Gary would then write a chapter sent to me, I would fact check it and then we would send it off back to New York to the editor, Matt Harford at the at the publishing house. And so that was the process by which it was done. It's it's my, these are my stories in my words, almost all, but Gary had a big part in all this. I, I wish that you. These people need to get their mother bleep in binding, correct on your book can be out when it's supposed to be out a Vern. Thank you for being with us. We appreciate it, sir. Thanks, Dan. Thanks to give my best, Nancy. Okay. We sure will. I wanted to do. He says, soom, soums, zoom and boom, boom. Couple of mentions cutting it up. No, Nancy do now. I mean, I feel like I know the lung was my tire life. Don't you hymns people keep yourself young, vibrant healthy, use the supplements from him. Tell him to gut EM guys. I've got a question for you. Do you want your hairline to recede or do you want to do something about it? I probably do something about I want to do something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you need to visit for hymns dot com. A one stop shop for hair loss care and another wellness up lament for man. Thanks to science. Baldness can be optional hymns connects you with real doctors and medical grade solutions to treat hair loss. They have well-known generic equivalents in name brand prescriptions to help keep your hair. No snake oil bills are gestation counter supplement. It stead prescription solutions backed by science. No, waiting room, no awkward in person. Doctor visits save hours by going to four hymns dot com order today, and our listeners get a trial month of hams for just five bucks while supplies last see website for full details. This would cost hundreds. If you went to the doctor or form ac- go to. Four hymns dot com. Slash Stu gods. That's f. o. war h. i. m. s. dot com. Slash God's do today. Four hymns dot com. Slash two guts. You can listen to the Dan lebatardshow with the stugatz. Thank to one eastern on ESPN review on. You can wash on ESPN news.

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Kansas, Duke, LSU face the federal fire; Zion Williamson's name attached to case; best players in college hoops (10.19)

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

1:20:34 hr | 1 year ago

Kansas, Duke, LSU face the federal fire; Zion Williamson's name attached to case; best players in college hoops (10.19)

"The. There. It's scary pairs Friday, October nineteen. Two thousand eighteen welcome back to the eye on college basketball podcast. Matt norlander is with me. I wanna talk to just a second, but before we do that, let me tell you about seatgeek buying tickets. Online can be a complicated deal, but it doesn't have to be not with seek, and that's because what seeking does is it searches multiple ticket sites for you that what you know, you're getting the best prices, best seats, best value, find what you want to click really two clicks later, you're buying tickets, easy peasy. For instance, let's say trying to go to the World Series which the Red Sox advanced to last night with a win over the Astros are you gotta do is once a matchup is set. Just go to see type in World Series yobs Sion's gonna pop up, pick your seats by themselves in a matter of seconds. It simple stuff when my wife and I went to see Jay z and biens beyond say a few weeks few months back, I guess is now backing Atlanta. I got our tickets via seek twelfth row on the floor at Mercedes Benz stadium down in Atlanta. Great seats and yes, I paid a lot for them, but on the day of the show, no lie tickets to rows behind our tickets were going for three times what I paid. So next time you need tickets to anything concert, sporting event, whatever open that seek app on your phone and get after it and don't forget to use the promo code college BB that's promo code college b, because if you use that, if you're first time buyer, you're gonna get twenty dollars off your seek purchase, twenty dollars off your first seek purchase. All you gotta do is use promo code college BB that see geek millions of tickets in one place. So I've been on the road all week. I in Fort Lauderdale with our Lander cow Boone and the entire CBS sports dot com college basketball team that went up to Brooklyn MC the media luncheon yesterday got home late last night, and so we haven't had a chance to actual to actually sit down and record a podcast this week apologies. But we're here right now and a whole lot has happened. The federal trial has had its closing statements, Kansas system. Kurtis Townsend is on. A wiretap insisting Kansas will pay for van Williamson yet. Duke still got scien- Williamson. So that's interesting. Meantime, Bill self via text message appears to be rationalizing Kansas cheating because he thinks you and see and Kentucky also do it or at least TJ gas Nola added Kentucky also does it via Nike. Jim ghettos lawyer said the Bill self new Adidas bought Silvio Susa, and we'll weigh LSU coat on. Wiretap seem to claim he's willing to cheat to get a class of two thousand nineteen prospect. So there's a lot to unpack you. We're going to talk about it all plus the fact that the NBA has announced that select prospects going forward is early. Two thousand nineteen can get g. league contract straight at a high school for one hundred twenty five thousand dollars. Plus we're gonna try to get into our list of the top one hundred one college basketball players in this country. We're gonna get to all of it. I think I promise, but I, I mean as an Orlando, what's up with norlander what's up with sup with GP good to see us good, some good meetings down there. We are definitely. Fired up and ready for the season. For as as we are for the season to come and the content, we've got a head in the in the coming weeks, including my one, two, three, fifty, three rankings. We now have three hundred and fifty three teams in college basketball from three fifty one in recent years. The trial really did continue to dominate the headlines this week as it should you and I both wrote stories, wrote columns on what had happened here. And I guess GP take this in chronological order just to kind of set it up as we learn it throughout the week because there's a lot to get to here. And obviously it stands to be to me the most interesting if not impactful week of the trial. And there's been three weeks because of the fact that you had the wiretap between Merle code and Kansas. Instant Kurtis Townsend. What the defense lead offense to hurry for Jim caddo said in his closing arguments on Thursday, but you want to take it from from the start from Monday as we learn things and has as this week unfolded. That's exactly right because there's a lot to get to. And I wanna stay focused topic to topic to topic to topic. And I think the best way is just to discuss it in chronological order. Like you mentioned on Monday. It was a big day in the courtroom. You and I were both flying to Fort Lauderdale and I got trapped in Atlanta for a little bit. But at some point it was tweeted by the damn wets or Adams, the gory or somebody else in the courtroom. A text message exchange between TJ gas Nola, the former consultant slash back man bag man and would be awesome if he was also Batman in addition to a bag man, but he's not. He's not. And it was a text message change between TJ and Kansas hall of fame coach Bill self just of it is that this was three days before Adidas was about to announce a twelve year extension with Kansas athletic department, but it was already done the deals done and they're gonna nounce in three days. They did announce it in three days. It's TJ sins. Bill a text message basically saying, hey. Thanks for your help or whatever role you played in it and Bill. Self replies, again, according to text message change, read in court said, just need to get a couple of real guys. TJ replies to that by saying, in my mind, Kate, you Bill self. Everyone else fall the line to f and bad. That's what's right for Dita's basketball. And I know I'm right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That's how it should work in my mind. Bill self replies, that's how it works at UNC and Duke gas Nola. Then answers that by saying Kentucky as well. And then he adds, I promise you, I got this. I have never let you down except with the Andrei LOL we will get it right. So that's the entire text message change in admittedly it's without context. But what I think most reasonable people would conclude from that. Is this what you have is a bag man who's already admitted to paying multiple families under oath saying that. Hey, you're our primary program. Your Adidas flagship is far as I'm concerned. I'm here to help Bill self. I'm here to help Keynes's. Everybody else can fall in line behind you. Bill says, that is how it works at UNC and Duke. The implication being. A deed is going to help me get out there and get some quote, unquote couple real guys. Well, that's how it works at UNC and Duke Nike helps them get real guys. And then TJ says, ain't it works Kentucky as well. Meaning Nike helps Kentucky get real guys and then TJ throws in at the end, I promise you, I'm going to do this. I've never let you down except with except for when it comes to Dion dre, which suggests that Bill self had to know that TJ guests was out there working to try to get dandruff eight. The who subsequently was the number one pick in the NBA draft was working to try to get them to Kansas and TJ testified last week that he had paid a friend. Specifically. The legend Lorne l. fifteen grand to try to curry favor with the eight and family norlander in fair this, I'll give you an opportunity to reject any of that basically, right. Basically right there and what gas Nola is saying in so many words to self on that text message and what he essentially verified on the stand under oath in court is that Nike and Under Armour working ways, perhaps not identical ways, perhaps through through different means avenues and channels as what a Dita's was trying to do. And I keep piece of context with all of this that I think we might have mentioned on the previous podcast. But if Donald bringing up here, you know, gas Nola was brought in specifically because Dita's or at least he was eager to be this role of a bag. Man who also by the way on ran operated, aggressor seem the New England players because it had lost ground in the recruiting space. It knew that it did new. It wasn't acquiring enough players that were setting up his future pros and getting them to a sponsored schools. So gas mellow was brought in to be part of that. And obviously he had other help in the quote, unquote black ops group that that has had where. Was Merle code Jim gadoe in by proxy Christian doctrines. So what you have self saying, there is listen. You've got these other big schools, Duke Kentucky Carolina, and the Nike machine is behind them. Obviously, what self is texting here, fall short of truly implicating evidence, but the whole context of the conversation submitted into evidence and displayed in court. Brings to light what gas Nola was willing to do specifically because he brings up de'andre Eytan whom he tried to get Aden's mother housing, permanent housing, and job in Lawrence, Kansas in an effort to get into Kansas that failed. Remind listeners that eight and was considered an overwhelming. I mean, among the most overwhelming projections for a top five player in a class to go to a certain school eight and going to Kansas was that. And then the Arizona pick was a fairly big stunner. And as we'll see with other instances of players who've been caught up in this Brian Bowen to Louisville, stunner Zion will Williamson to Duke definitely stunner even though it's Duke, they were not considered a front runner first or second or third or any of that heading into that. So that context of that conversation brings more skepticism to self as we're going to get to the fact that one of his assistants was caught on a wiretap discussing Zayn Williamson. Recruitment and the circumstances surrounding that recruitment very much running parallel to the circumstances that surrounded de'andre Aden's nefarious recruitment. That is what is so troubling if you're a Kansas fan and it's why the instable a, in my opinion, inevitably has to seriously investigate Kansas. It's why sanctions could becoming because again, the stuff that is brought up in court is now a matter of public record and the AA per its own rules that got changed earlier this year is allowed to take that evidence and use it toward its own adjudication though that text message exchange is made public in court on Monday, and I'd set a write a column about it because it's obviously significant news if only because you've got a hall of fame coach on a wiretap saying, yeah, we're going to do this and you know what? It's no different than what another hall of fame coach at UNC. It's no different than how he benefits another hall of fame coach do. It's how he benefits. And then TJ gas Nola says, oh, don't forget about the hall. Of fame coach, Kentucky, it's how he benefit. So we got a text message exchange between. Bill self and TJ gas Nola that that that mentions three other blue blood programs. That's perfect stuff for count. So I start so. So the the basic of the basis of the column is like, this is the most interesting stuff from from the day because essentially, again, this is the way I read it. I'd invite anybody to read it differently, but I don't think you can unless you have biased is. It is a hall of fame coach, rationalize cheating because, hey, we doing anything like ain't doing. We doing nothing that Nike's not doing for Duke for North Carolina and for Kentucky. Now I'm not as I wrote in the com- sitting here and going to pretend to have proof that Nike has has done this exact thing that data's was willing to do and did do for Kansas for UNC or Duke or Kentucky. But what I can say is that we know via reporting from the Oregonian that Marvin Bagley father made a lot of money through Nike while Marvin Bagley was a high school prospect and Marvin Bagley didn't end up picking one of Nike's biggest brands perhaps that was just a coincidence. But everything I just said is true. And so I write the column just saying, like, you know, in in that text message change what Bill self says, like this is the way it gets done. And I think he's right. I do think this is the way. It gets done because for years, this is the way people would hurt. It gets done and it was almost acceptable behavior in the sport as crazy as that might sound on October nineteen, two thousand eighteen. It was almost acceptable behavior in the sport. I can't tell you how many times I heard it coach saying, you know, just Nike Nike kid pick the Nike school. What are you going to do? Or hey, Adidas is out there working for an Adidas school where you're gonna do or underarms out there working for an under armor school and just sort of how the game work in fact, and I encourage anybody to go with this Google, Gary, perish, Mark Turgeon college park mellow Trimble it probably pop up there. I went to Maryland a few years ago and wrote a story about, you know, Mark Turgeon sort of off the hot seat, but what it's like to to live on the hot seat and he was great, very candid. I think the lead was something along the lines of, you know, he was riding with his son, his teenage son one day, and his son looked at him and sedan. You're going to get fired. He said, that's a hard thing to hear from your son, because what your son's basically asking is not whether or not you're going to lose your job, but like are we going to have to move again, I'm not going to have to leave all my friends and it's just like it's just it's a rough deal. When your job security is such a public topic of conversation. For instance, if my job's in jeopardy, your job's in jeopardy. Most people don't know except us, and even in that case, we might not know. But when it comes to college, basketball coaching, there's actual list see list one that met published recently that says, hey, this guy might lose his job come March or April. And so you know, he talks about that. But at some point in the story, I talk about like why he came to Maryland and one of the points he made. He said it was a top five reason the under armor affiliation because he knew at Texas am in. He was always well down the totem pole when it came to shoe company affiliation. But at at Maryland, he'd be the number one priority for under armor, and he knew under armor would help him. And the quote in the story is and I'll never apologize for it because what Mark new is, what a lot of people knew Nike's helping Nike schools Dita's helping to school. You know, went under armor is gonna help me and I'll never polish politics for it. And what we've found out in this over the past year, the federal government has subpoenaed Maryland for paperwork, and according to at least wiretaps and testimony. Maryland booster had paid civil, deceive, Souza's garden guardian to get him to go to Maryland. So to me, this was the most entering stuff, and I wrote it that way and almost immediately the backlash from Duke fans, Carolina fans in Kentucky fans came, and I realized I didn't notice this in advance or anticipated advanced, but it makes sense what the benefit of hindsight I might have written norlander tell me if I'm wrong, might have written the first column in the history of columns that angers Duke fans and Kentucky fans, and North Carolina fans and Kansas fans. Because usually when you write a column that's gonna anger, Duke feigns Kentucky fans gonna love it, North Carolina fines going to love it. You write a column that Kentucky fans are gonna hate. Duke fans are gonna love it, Kansas fans. They're gonna love it, but they all hated this one. And. The the question I got over and over again is why couldn't you just write about Kansas? Why did you wanna rope all these other schools in? And if you allow me to answer that question, I will. I'm just not going to go back and forth with a bunch of non ass-. Wacko fans on Twitter is just some people do it. I just choose not to. But I'll happy to address it here. Like what fans wanted me to write was, oh, here's Bill self caught cheating. We had talked about that last week. Go listen to last week's podcast or any radio. Segment you heard me do on this topic. It was pretty clear from the previous week's testimony that Keynes's had been cheating falls off, and I actually said you'd have to be really naive to think the Bill self and his staff were unaware of what TJ gas Nolan. Jim gadoe and everybody is doing. I said that we had talked about that. What was I supposed to write on Monday afternoon, hey, here's even more stuff that makes it look like canes was absolutely cheating. Like we've been through that who could read that text message exchange and think the Bill self wasn't aware what t- to guess Nola was willing to do and possibly had done already for him, at least as it relates to donder Deandra and there's nothing new there. The truth is that the interesting aspect of this was. You have a guy who is, I don't know what bills title is, but he works on that committee. That makes rules, right? It's he and Phil Martelli, correct? Yeah, Bilas outgoing on that. But he has been. He's been part of that, yes. Yeah. So you got a guy who's like in the actual rule, recommendation business, a guy who's won a national championship, a guy who's one of only six active hall of famers basically incriminating himself, but also saying, this is what happens at Duke, North Carolina and the guests. No says, oh, don't forget about my old buddy. John Calipari. It's also what happens at Kentucky that that was the most interesting thing from there and somehow gets twisted into your just staying away from Bill sell. I talked about Bill self at link the week before, and then you get all these like wild people speculating as to why. And I don't know really where it started. I think I can probably guess, but I got maybe one hundred people saying that I didn't wanna. About Bill self because he's my drinking buddy at hooters. I don't think just for the record. And you guys can post this on your favorite message board? I don't think I've ever been to hooters with Bill self ever. I remember one night at the hooters in Augusta, norlander I believe you were there. It was me you couple of the people have you Bob Huggins, Mark FOX, Steve Forbes. Do you remember that night and Kennedy. Do Andy Kennedy. Right? But it wasn't Bill self. Like Bill self is not my drinking buddy, which is what has been alleged like, there's this like consp- like, I don't know what to call it, not a conspiracy, but just like a theory among primarily, it appears to be Kentucky fans that the media is scared to write about Bill self because Bill selves, everybody's drinking buddy like I can count on maybe a three fingers. How many times Bill self is. I don't even really know how many times I've set at a papal and Drake what Bill self. It's just it's just faintest. It's just not true. And beyond that like go listen to the last podcast I talked about Bill self in the. The in how the testimony that come out in this trial seem to suggest you'd have to be really naive to think Kansas was a not cheating, but be that the staff wasn't aware of it. So that's the truth behind that story. And why I wrote that column, there is no conspiracy. I had another guy say that because I live in Memphis. I wanted to wrote Kentucky into it because Memphis recruiting James wise, it's just bananas, like I didn't. I swear to God on my youngest son's life who supposed to be not even here. He's a miracle. I never thought about James Wiseman points lower right in that column. I wrote the column for exactly the reasons I stated and the idea that it can that large fan bases can believe what somebody tells them when it's just like completely made up is just wild to me, but it shouldn't. It shouldn't be surprising. Fans are fans and you manage to to piss off for the biggest ones here. I want to tie up the Bill self stuff on this portion, so we don't have to double back later because we gotta get to his assistant Zion, weight and stuff. So here's another interesting aspect with all this. I want to try and put a little bit of context into how we got to this point on Thursday. The defense makes closing argument and gets, and Michael Schachter the lead defense attorney for Jim gadoe. Starts making his closing arguments. Here's what he said in the quote is from March lobbying dot com who was in the courtroom and covering it for that outlet. This week Schachter said, the evidence I submit shows that Kansas head coach knew of an ask for payment to be made to Silvio Seuss's handler, more than that coach self requested. Just the kind of help that Mr. gas Nola arranged as a condition for coach self to permit Adidas, to continue their sponsorship agreement with the university of Kansas. You have Schachter sang something here in front of the jury that gas Nola under oath directly refuted. And that has to be brought up an address here because frankly, you can think Bill self is the biggest cheater in college basketball, you think Bill self is completely innocent, and all of this has been overblown. But what Schachter did here was. I wouldn't say he threw a skunk into the jury as the saying goes in those circles, but I think it came pretty close because gas Nola was repeatedly asked if he ever told self, if you ever thought self staff knew that was making these payments. These players gas Nola said, no, he, he objected to the idea of that and testified explicitly against it will Schachter is coming out in explicitly saying, obviously the prosecution rejects this because it's case rests on the fact that Bill self did not know. So what's interesting here is what Schachter said and how much it could have an impact on the verdicts which are due to come either Monday or Tuesday. I don't think this trial will drip into Wednesday. We'll have to wait and see on how complicated issue jury thinks it is, but I was surprised that he went this far. So the next layer of this is this in the process of building out this case, the defense attorneys are obviously privy to a lot of information that doesn't get presented at try. I would even posit that maybe ten percent max of what they know what they've talked about, what what they've learned and what is essentially known to be can't be brought forth in court. They accept his reality and Michael Schachter and the rest of those defense attorneys absolutely believe that Bill self knew about these payments. I don't think that he would have gone as far as to say that in his closing arguments, because if you get to a certain point where you're throwing stuff out there, even in a closing argument, you can really seriously flirt with mistrial and I was talking with what so damn what Soviet who last week there are a couple of moments that it didn't quite get to that line. But there were just the recent contention between the defense team and judge Lewis Kaplan in this where we thought, ok, maybe if this keeps going like this, maybe there will be a mistrial. We're gonna have to pick up the pieces and start over here. It didn't get to that point. But I know that this particular story and what the defense attorney is gained even more attraction. But it deserves to be said that gas Nola said that did not happen, and he's under oath. He's pinned against the wall. Here. He's not even sure that he won't go to jail. Gas Nola has no impetus to lie whatsoever because if he does, if any of his testimony is found to be falsified than his agreement gets ripped up and he stands to go to jail for a very, very long time. One other thing I want to bring up within all of this that the defense brought up. Let me start with. Okay, second. Okay. This was a headline that popped last night while I was flying home from New York. Jim GATT attorneys says, Bill self knew about the payment Silvio Susa. Let me be very clear. I'll say the same thing I said last week at this point, given everything we know you'd have to be pretty naive to think that Bill selfishness, staff worn aware of what Jim gadoe and TJ gas Nolan was doing for Kansas you. You'd have to be pretty naive, but this would carry much more weight what the defense attorney said in court yesterday if he had put gadoe on the stand and gadoe it said under oath, I had a person in the industry text me last night while on the plane said, do you think Bill survives this? And my answer is if it never gets worse than where it is right now. Yes. And here's one. What Bill can say is that you can tell you can say I should have known or or maybe I should have asked more questions are maybe I was a, I was trying to create plausible deniability. Obviously, he's not going to say these things, but, but there's nothing here that proves that. I knew anything that I directed anybody to go break rules. I told TJ gas Nola need a couple of guys. I didn't tell him to go buy me a couple of guys. You guys are. You guys are reading it the way you want to read it and I and if God does law says that I was aware of it, I'm just telling you that I wasn't and he has real motive to say that I was aware of it. Their case is built on no university was defrauded because the universities knew what our clients were doing. That's the case. The prosecution is saying, universities were defrauded, and the defense is saying, no, that universities weren't because universities were were involved a wear and our clients were doing exactly what the university's want. So he's trying to get his his. Client off aim at anybody, but like I did not instruct, Jim gadoe to go buy a player for me. I did not instruct TJ gas, not go by a player from me, and they never told me that they did those things. And as long as he sticks to that, I think Bill self is going to survive this Kurtis Townsend like that's pretty bad stuff and we'll get to it in a minute. He might go, because let's just be honest assistance have been sacrificed in this type of stuff while the hit to for for decades. But if it doesn't get worse than this Bill cells going to continue to coach canes, would you agree with that? Yeah, and I'm glad we got because I was actually set you up with that just a minute there. So we're on the same wavelength here. If what we know and let's be clear here we still have two more trials. We'll see if any of the trials really loop Kansas in the way this one has I suspect that they won't. But I would say Bill self is not in danger of losing his job because you do not have anything in evidence that explicitly shows that self knew of approved of ads for payments. However, there was this one more thing that was brought up by Schachter and court, and it was it was as much as the defense could get to build to build its argument. It's text messages between Gasol and self gas techs. I talk with any self response. We good guests has always says that that was light work is in his court. Now, you know, we're not gonna play stupid for listenership on this podcast. We understand what's going on here, but we're absence of actual evidence. And then Schachter goes onto argue, coach, self, and towns and ask for help in making this payment defending referring to any foul main Silvio guardian. And then coach self wanted to know with Adidas told me that the payment would be made and the ball is in his court. That's a logical conclusion to come to, but it's still stopped short of actual evidence I do self will be okay. GP can we now transition this detention because these things are dealing with separate players, but the same situation, overall, Townsend Zion stuff because it's it's obviously, I think it's the biggest stuff from this week. I agree, but in the spirit of chronological order, the coach k. press conference. Okay. Enough. Things obviously tied together. So on Monday as that text message chain between Bill self and TJ, gas Nola is made public Mike chefs key. The hall of fame coach greatest coach college coach of all time is holding a press conference in Durham, and he describes everything that's coming out in court in on that day and in the previous couple of weeks. And just this whole quote, unquote scandal in general, says it's, it's, it's just a blip. It's not what's happening. The pushback has been pretty intense. I think if they had to do it over again, he probably handle it. But obviously that's it's it's silly in disingenuous and just an odd way for the most prominent voice in the sport to respond to to to what we are witnessing a federal courtroom in New York City. It was a bad. Look made five times worse by the fact that less than twenty four hours later one of his star players, let's face it. His star players. I am. Williamson was irrefutably attached to this story permanently to refer to what's happening and in court as a blip to refer to the fact that an investigation of this magnitude that's unprecedented in major college athletics, you can even argue from the federal standpoint from a federal standpoint with United States government, we have never seen a case like this. That doesn't qualify as a blip here and it was shocking because Mike chefs key, everyone would agree that has any sort of, you know, balanced in waited knowledge in college, athletics in college, basketball, he's not dumb. It's this. This guy went to West Point as guided himself to being arguably the greatest college basketball coach in the history of the sport, understand how recruiting works to such a level that he is doing it at such an advanced stage and age that it out matches any. He's done previously. I can now hear the dukes Nixon hitter saying, yeah, obviously, look at what you guys have been talking about for the first half hour on this podcast is a reason that happens. You're totally valid and thinking that, but the point is much jesse's too smart to act that stupid. And when he does that, he sets himself up for criticism. I was surprised did that because he has been a bit outspoken about this and some changes needed in the past, but to be fair, he's also tried to push college basketball along from this fastest possible particularly last year when I was at the PK eighty and the trial stuff that kind of come and gone in the games that started. And there wasn't a lot about that, but he got asked about, he said, you know, the focus where it should be now it's on the games. It's on this on this season, and that stuff is is pretty much over with well. He was kind of true in the moment, but at the same time we were never just gonna blow by this and. Okay. Well, we're not gonna talk about. I think about the trial until or the case until the trial star. That wasn't the case whatsoever. So now you've got k. getting rightfully ripped over this. And then the next day. Again, context is important here. What got released the next day is so fascinating because the jury did not hear this jury does not know this happened. They are making their verdict on this case without knowledge of all of this. But what happens is they're out of the courtroom and before they come back in or any witnesses, even though the witnesses had finished up at this time, what happens is the defense and the prosecution that go to the judge and they say, okay, listen here, things that we want to bring up in front of the jury, and it's up to the judge side whether that's allowed or not the judge ultimately decides it's not allowed. But the key thing here one is the will Wade conversation with Christian doctrines. But the bigger headline was the recruitment is I on Williamson and in Kansas involvement in all of that. And it's just it's, it's downright damning. It's Merle code talking to Curtis housing, and I'm gonna read just forbade him. So our listeners have it. Many probably read this, but let's just put this on the table and imperishable that for you. Hey, co said between me and you, you know, he asked about. Some stuff, you know. Who is he? This is now I'm reading from Wessels column Zaim Williams father, but this is another distinction that has to be made here. Okay. 'cause I haven't really seen this talked about too much Zion. Williamson has a father, but his father is not who he lives with. He does not have a close relationship with his father, his father and his mother, not married Zion. Williamson has a stepfather. The stepfather was the one that was in charge of his deeds grassroots program. Oh, by the way that it is funded heavily just the way Marvin Bagley. The thirds Nike program was funded. So there is the possibility that as a codes lawyer, Mark Morris, describing all this and referring to Williamson's quote father. He means his stepfather doesn't mean that his father's not possible because I had a source telling me during Williamson's recruitment that Zion Williamson's father was actually a little bit in the picture. So there is that minute possibility. But I think it's more likely it was a stepfather either way that's particular detail that needs to be put out there. So people understand what's going on here. Co continues. I know what he's asking for. He's asking for opportunities from an occupational perspective. He's asking for cash in the pocket, and he's asking for housing for him and his family. This is very much like the Andrea eight recruitment to Kansas. Okay. So then Townsend says, I've just got to try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get here for ten months, we're going to have to do it some way that isn't acknowledgement that he understands the recruiting situation surrounding Zion, Williamson, potentially going from the grassroots level to the biggest school that there is Townsend is not hanging up the phone. He's not saying, hey, man, you know that we can't do that here. We don't do that here. It's him absolutely listening codes pitch and not not getting off the phone. It's it's particularly damning for Kansas towns. Townsend. I think in an probe is inevitable. The timing on that hell it might be two three years from now given how these things go. We don't know on all that, but it absolutely has aftershocks with Duke because what we are asking, what? What. Is asking us to believe now. And of course it's possible ask us to believe that Zion, Williamson's recruitment on behalf of moral code. This was not the stepfather talking to Curtis. Perhaps I believe since father because saying I talk with family and here's what's going on. So if that was happening with Kansas, are we to believe that the lure of chefs key and Duke and Cameron and being on television more than any other team in the country, except maybe Kentucky was enough for the family not to take any sort of benefits. Obviously, that's quite the leap of sumptious to make. And so it sets up for a problematic issue with Duke. I will say, you know. One more thing I'll shut up and get to parish when Bagley had to get into last year. It was such a big deal. I talk with multiple around Duke and the process in which the high profile players are allowed to be enrolled and eligible to play particular. Duke I was told is exceedingly rigorous like so tedious about Bank records everything financial and the previous two, three or four years that said, obviously, Mike suggests the most powerful person in the sport. And today there's never been a player that's been refuted from getting into Duke. So you can make the case that it's so hard to get in and they check the incident, late rigorously, fax, everything. Someone else could easily come back and say, come up, it's Duke. Esky is a really going to be a roadblock. So that's what faces. And there are questions that still need to be asked by the way media is next week. I'd love to see what happens to the compliance person tries to tell Mike chefs. Can't enrolls I on way of because they found something problematic. Yeah, come. Yeah, I know whatever come on. Here's what I would say. I obviously terrible look for canes because it's just one thing stacked on top of another stack on top of another. Here we know Billy Preston got paid by deed to go to Kansas. We know that Sylvia Sousa got paid by deed is to go to Kansas. We know that Keynes's tried to pay the Andre Eytan to go to. The deed is tried to pay the eight and to go to Kansas. Now we got Curtis towns and who's been side by side with Bill for a long, long time. You know saying, hey, listen, that's what it takes to get it done, then we're gonna have to get it done. Now. I do think there's a way out for Curtis and I'll get to that in a moment. But obviously like commonsense suggests that. They were willing to play ball here and actually anxious to play ball here. And when you combine it with everything else, it paints the picture. I hope Kentucky fans listening of a program that has been. Cheating for a while. To enroll prospects to win, big, twelve title after big twelve title after big, twelve title. I don't care what the incident does decanes going forward Bill Bill self coaches forever and never again if towns on that staffer ever and never again, this is going to be part of the Kansas legacy now it's not just going to be like, Lou. It's amazing fourteenth straight, big, twelve titles. It will always be hit with. Yeah, but same like it's amazing Barry Bonds at seventy home runs yet, but that's always going to be a part of this thing. Now that's done. That's been settled over the past three weeks in a courtroom in in in lower Manhattan. But I think the larger issue here is, is Duke because like like I said earlier, the reason I didn't write to look at Kansas cheating column earlier this week is because like we've been through that. We discussed it at link the week before it was nothing new. They're bringing Duke and UNC in Kentucky for that purposes, that column that was the new stuff. And for the purposes of this exchange design Williamson ending up at Duke thing. That's really the focal point because here's what we know. We know that according to Merle code anchored Townsend because the way the conversation actually started, I think you misquoted new tributed the first two tomorrow. It was actually Curtis. Curtis said, hey, but between me and you, you know, he asked about some stuff and I said, well, we'll talk about that. You decide. And then code said, I know what he's asking for. So they are both Merle code and town to people who have been involved in the recruitment have dealt with the presumably stepfather moral from South Carolina, just like Zion. By the way late at Clemson, which was very much involved in trying to get the only time clemson's actually been competing with Duke for a recruit like a major recruit. Correct. And so you got two people involved in the recruitment who both think that Zan stepfather again, presumably stepfather has got his hand out. He wants job, he wants to house or somewhere to live. He wants cash and his pocket is what these people think. That's what we know. We also know that we know there's a seller. We know there's a seller. Follow me here. We also know there's a buyer canes is already said, we'll buy Curtis towns on wiretaps and that's what we gotta do, then that's what we're going to do what figure it out. So we know we got a her. We know we got a buyer and then we know we went to Duke now, is it possible that Zion, Williamson stepfather wanted to sell Zay on that a blue blood program, like Kansas stepped up and said, we'll buy on, but then they just rejected it all and decided to go to Duke at the last minute for absolutely nothing more than what's allowed by NCAA rules. Perhaps perhaps that is exactly what happened. If you talk to the Duke staff that they will tell you, yes, that's what happened. But who's gonna believe that outside of people who want to believe it because. They're blue devils for life. I mean, do you think do you think the casual basketball fan thinks that Zion Williams and stepfather was trying to sell Zaylon that Kansas was willing to buys ion and that Zion, Dan just went allowed by stepfather to Duke at the last minute in a surprising move for nothing more than what's allowed by the rules. It's tough sale. Yes, extremely tough sell and to be clear, no one thinks that Merle code is hitting up Mike shoshefsky and saying, listen, if you went on, if you want it on a on, you know the family wants cash in the pocket. They're going to need some jobs. We're gonna have to talk about housing. I gotta get this done with you. No one is going to make sure chef ski and saying that it's just not happening there. The channels, frankly weren't set up to be like that because moral code is working on behalf of Diaz which is a discrepancy. That should be pointed out here. But as we head toward the season Zion, Williamson now forever attached to this story is the most famous person college basketball right now, and he hasn't played a game. And that's an inaugural point from a social media standpoint, from the fact that he has been tracked through highlights on television viral social media for three years. Now, the way that he plays the way that he looks frankly, we have tendency to say this, but this is true. We have never seen a player like Zion, Williamson enter major college basketball or just say college basketball over all, because he's that big that athletic. And when you look at someone built like him, you don't expect him to do the things he does to jump ac- does to be forcefully until make it look as effortlessly as he does. So we have all of this entering a season and Duke players are always going to face hate whenever they go to erode environment, especially in the, but now you're gonna have a situation where Williams probably going to be the the most played song on the radio. If you will, from November through March, and you're gonna have a. A bunch of people bringing signs in the game, asking how much he paid to go to Duke. This is going to be something that I do think will be a throwing undercurrent for Duke season throughout the year. I would. I would expect that as we speak right now. Point. Well, taken and well hurt on your compliance thing GP, but I would expect that because of the publicity that all of this brought, they are crossing their t.'s and dotting their is regarding Zion, Williamson's legitimacy as a prospect that said, he's not gonna miss a game. I don't expect that to happen if it did obviously qualify as a major headline and now, yeah, Duke has a little bit of taint to this story as well because of how he was brought into this. And you're asking us to make a big leap to suggest that if if billion dollar corporations, we're working to get him to play at one school, why would others not be doing the same as gas Nola testified under oath? Yes, of course. Nike Under Armour work for their biggest schools the same way that we were tasked to do with deeds. Yeah, and I want to be fair to design on because I think it's possible if not likely that he had no idea, fair to him, perish this. This is it's not his doing. He's going to be attached to it, but you're absolutely right, right. Like Brian. Junior, I don't believe knew what Brian bone senior was doing. And I think it's probably true that if Zion stepfather was shopping Zion, probably didn't know if only because speaking as a father, if I were trying to profit off my teenage kid, like I have a teenage son, and if he were immensely talented, basketball prospect, and I was trying to profit off of him and guide him to a certain university in exchange for whatever. I don't think I would want him to know that. So I would assume that even though Zion is going to get everything, you just described a more. He probably had literally nothing to do with this, and that's unfortunate. But like it is also. It's also a reality. Yes, I believe that Duke will look into this if only so that they can say that they did, but here's the way that goes down. I would assume, you know, this is this would be very different. If Zion stepfather was on a wiretap with moral code, talking about what he wants or Zion, step fire with father was on a wiretap Kurtis Townsend talking about what he wants this to other people talking about what Zion stepfather wants. And when duke's compliance people come to me, you know what I say I go. I don't know where they got that from. I don't know why Kansas coach thought I had my hand out, but he's wrong. And I don't know why in a deed is executive head thought I had my hand out, but he was wrong. Perhaps there the deed is executive was saying that because this was expecting to get Zion there because Dita's had been so heavily involved with us, but my son wanted to go to and I wasn't going to stand in his way even if we'd had a great relationship with the deed is so for Dita's to have to. To to, to rationalize that to a Kansas staff that wanted my son, they have to imply that that well, it was a dirty deal, but it wasn't a dirty deal. And I, I'm highly offended that anybody would suggest otherwise. Now I don't believe any of that. But if you say it, what happens next, right? I mean, it's the onus is on the university to really take action in that case. And that's just not going to happen. One last thing on this before I move on parish. Forty and family did write a story that said, hey, listen, you know, remember the Cam Newton situation when his his father was found to have been shopping for hundred eighty thousand Mississippi State. And then this new rule came into place. I actually don't know if that would apply here either this Cam Newton rule where it basically says, even if the player the student athlete doesn't know. But you know, the services are being shopped out there on behalf of that player. Without his knowledge. The player can be ruled ineligible by family member. I don't even know if this is this is really getting into it, but like this is not. This is not his biological father. I don't even know if he technically Zayn LIAM's stepfather. Would even qualify as technical guardian. So even if you're thinking that might be a possibility, there could be the loophole in that he does. He didn't. He lied implying those situations. He was just someone in a certain spot that if you're if you're clinging the notion that Duke is going to get railed for this, Williamson is going to be eligible in the Cam Newton. Rule is gonna come into play. Well, there are more even reasons why you should be skeptical that that is going to happen. Overall. We'll see what makes you chef ski says at SEC media day next week, he'll obviously be asked about this. He might be asked to follow up his comments, his blip comments, and we'll see with a few days time and potentially with a verdict in on this trial, what his thoughts are then. Couple more things you're exactly right. Like listen, if Duke didn't trouble for Corey Magaji Orleans Thomas or the idea that Nike funded Marvin Bagley grassroots team that was built for him and run by his father, an immense amount of money, several hundred thousand dollars. If like in that just sort of disappears, if nothing comes to that stuff, I'll be shocked if anything comes this. I don't think duke's going to get in any trouble, but I did want to touch on Curtis downs and then make a larger point before we move on. I'm into earlier. There's maybe a way for Curtis towns out of this, and I would assume it's it's by explaining his words this way because what Curtis downs and says that it's the incriminating parties has. No, he says, I've got to just try to work and figure out a way because if that's what it takes to get him here for ten months, we're going to have to do it some way in quote, I imagine what Kurds listen, I wanna be clear. It is what it is like. He ain't nobody's gonna trick me by pretending that something other than what it clearly is. But if you try to save your job, you just say, listen, this is what we do. You know, we live in a world of bullshit like you get these people on the phone. And even if you have no intentions of of of doing what it is suggesting needs to get done, you just trying to keep them on the hook. You know, you just trying to stay in the game and like you hope at the end of the day, you can with more time and in education you can convince these people like you don't need to go down this path like kids were twenty. Dollars in eight months. Be smart about this. And so, yeah, I said, hey, you know. This is what is going to take, then we're going to have to do it some way. But when I do it some way, I just meant like just keeping a ballgame, and we'll figure this out down the road, but I never did anything. We ain't the ones that ended up was I on Williamson, and I think maybe just maybe you can. You can survive that again, nobody believes it, but it it's, it's at least in an explanation. In the last point I wanna make on this sort of big picture as it relates to Duke because undeniably it's bad. Look, Duke. We know we got a seller. We know we got a buyer and it's not like the buyers depaul. It's not like Zion Williams and had a two thousand dollar offer to downplay the post to. Paul has been playing in this thing by the way because it's now to talk at depaul 's pulse, moving and shake with man. There's there's some serious drama going down in Chi