20 Episode results for "Braintree"

April 15, 2020: The Case of Sacco & Vanzetti

Today in True Crime

13:48 min | 7 months ago

April 15, 2020: The Case of Sacco & Vanzetti

"I today is Wednesday April Fifteenth. Twenty twenty on this day in. Nineteen twenty two anarchists Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Van Zeti robbed and killed the paymaster and Security Guard of a Massachusetts Shoe Company. It was an unlikely case to make international news but the Sonko Vans Eddie. Trial would become one of the most famous in American history as well as a landmark case in forensic crime detection welcome to today and true crime. Apar- cast original. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And today I'm joined by our guest host. Greg Poulsen. Thank you Vanessa. It's always so wonderful to host with you and hello today into crime listers. I'm positively thrilled to join today. Listeners might recognize Greg from a few podcast shows we host together including serial killers cults and our newest show secret societies. Every week we examined history's most exclusive organizations and try to shine a light on the truth behind these mysterious groups so far we've looked at mysterious groups like the skull and bones the Rosa Croutons and the Hellfire club and their rumored attempts at world domination. Today Greg's here to discuss some of the historical aspects of the story while I'll cover the narrative. Let's go back to South braintree Massachusetts on April Fifteenth. Nineteen Twenty Fred. Parmenter a slater marill paymaster and Sandro Bearer Deli. His Guard left the shoe companies offices just before three PM. It was quiet Thursday afternoon on Pearl Street after all. Everyone was waiting on their pay. The streets might get a bit livelier. Once the men had some money in their pockets and there was plenty of cash to go around and the two hefty payroll boxes parmenter and Barrow Deli Carried fifteen thousand seven hundred seventy six dollars and fifty one cents to be precise that's worth over two hundred thousand dollars today. Parmenter new cargo was precious hence Barrow Delis presence but this was a familiar route and it wasn't far to the slater memorial shoe factory. Neither man thought much of the stroll as they made their way through town. Unfortunately they wouldn't have long to think anything at all to men approached them pistols in hand. They didn't say anything didn't make a demand didn't even give Barry Deli time to pull out his own weapon. The pair simply pulled their triggers. Fred Parmenter and Allesandro Berar Deli went down. This was Pearl Street. Quiet but not deserted. Bystanders stood appalled as the assailants grabbed the payroll boxes. Out of the Feldman's hands. They watched frozen as a car pulled up to the curb and they barely had time to note the plates before the killers through their boxes into the car and sped off into the afternoon. The quiet town of braintree was appalled. They whispered about who the men might have been. They looked Italian but no one knew for sure. And it wasn't until two days later when investigators found the getaway car abandoned in the nearby woods that the police thought they might have a lead on the killers they the car to a man named Mike Kubota suspected of a similar crime in another Massachusetts town but Boda new. The police were coming for him and before they could get their hands on him. He fled to Italy two of his associates however were apprehended by police. Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vans Eddie. Neither had records at the time of their arrest. Soko worked at a shoe factory. Van Zeti was a fish peddler but both were carrying loaded guns at the time of their arrest and that made all the difference. The particular weapon of interest was Soko's a thirty two caliber handgun. The kind used at the braintree crime. Plus it was loaded with bullets from the same manufacturer as those studying parmenter and bear our Delis bodies. This did not look good for Soko Van Zeti. They were charged with murder. But these two men were anarchists. They believed social. Justice would only come with the destruction of governments and they weren't about to take the US government's flimsy accusations lying down. They put up the fight of the century and make sure the public knew they were fighting for more than their freedom. This was a battle for the rights of radicals around the world. Coming up the Sako Van. Zeti trial becomes national news and a landmark ballistics case high listeners. The launch of our new podcast series supernatural with Ashley. Flowers has been an incredible success. Were so happy to welcome to the podcast family and can't thank you enough for checking out the show. If you haven't had a chance to listen yet I highly recommend you head over to the supernatural feed and subscribe today every Wednesday Ashley. Flowers takes on a different crime or mystery or the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional the first episode has been my favorite so far. Were the deaths of two Brazilian men a result of making contact with spirits on Mars. Get closer to the truth than ever before. Regarding the mystifying lead masks case but you'll also find some other fascinating stories. Did four friends have a highly unusual encounter during a camping trip in Maine. Sort through the out of this world. Circumstances surrounding the allegations incident was Italian. Theoretical physicist et Cetera by Arana's disappearance caused by his discovery of time travel or was it something more sinister each week Ashley takes on the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences if you're the kind of person who questions everything you'll love this. Show follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever? You get your podcasts now. Back to the story on April Fifteenth Nineteen twenty two unknown assailants robbed and killed the paymaster and Security Guard of a Massachusetts Shoe Company. Through a chain of circumstantial evidence. The police were able to apprehend two suspects. Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo van Zeti. But it was the weapon they found on. Soko that convinced them. They had their man. He was carrying the same gun and bullets used in the murder. My guest host. Greg is here to discuss the context around the crime and the ensuing Soko Vendetta trial. Thanks Vanessa the braintree shooting occurred in the midst of a struggle between the radical left and right across the world we like to remember the nineteen twenty s as a decade of roaring parties. And it was but it was also part of the Inter war period that would see the rise of both communism and fascism setting the stage for World War. Two the early twenties saw anti-immigrant and anti-communism sentiment running high across America Psycho and been Zeti were Italian artists. They were acutely aware of these tensions and where they were arrested for the braintree shooting. They knew that their best hope of squashing. The case was to rally the anger stemming from these broader issues and use it to their advantage they were. They insisted to the press being persecuted for being both Italian and anarchists after all the case against them rested heavily on the gun and bullets. Sokha was carrying at the time of his arrest. That was far from conclusive evidence that he'd shot Fred Parmenter and Alessandra Deli much less than Zeti had been involved and what had made the police pick their suspects up in the first place. A flimsy link with another wanted man. Investigators had never been able to turn up any evidence of the stolen money either. None of this was fair. Soko infants said he insisted and the world listened. Their case made international headlines. Millions of dollars were donated to Soko invent said he's defense by leftists in the US and abroad and that's tens of millions in today's dollars protests sprung up in their support in response to the case the American embassy in Paris was even bombed and a second bomb intended for the embassy in Lisbon was intercepted. The small town Massachusetts case was suddenly one of the most watched in history trial commenced. There was plenty to look at no well-funded defense brought out almost one hundred witnesses to testify on behalf of sock Olympian City. They lampooned eye witnesses for their crude statements that the killers were Italian looking and finally they tried ballistics experts. Who INSISTED SOKO's weapon hadn't shot the fatal bullets the weren't however the only ones the prosecution brought in its own ballistics experts who claimed just the opposite their tests concluded that Sacco's Gun did part mentor and Berra Deli. Part of the problem here was that both sides were working with primitive forensic instruments. The science was still knew that didn't have precision on its side yet. The judge and jury were left to decide which of the reports was more convincing. They went with the prosecution. The pair were found guilty on July. Fourteenth Nineteen Twenty one and sentenced to death soccer. Ben Said He. Supporters were appalled and has Soko invent said. He waited on death row. They refuse to quiet their support particularly in the light of conflicting ballistics reports. They were convinced that the outcome of the trial was the result of politically motivated. Prejudice ballistics aside. The evidence was simply flimsy controversially. The men remained on death row for years in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. Another convicted criminal claimed he'd committed the murder with his gang and support surged. Even more. The pressure was so intense that in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven. The Massachusetts governor ordered an inquiry to advise him on the anarchists clemency requests. But unfortunately for Soko in Ben City forensic science had made some progress since nineteen twenty. The new comparison microscope was used to retest. Soko's gone and proved beyond a doubt that it was indeed. The murder weapon. The governor was satisfied on August. Twenty third nineteen twenty-seven Soko in Ben City were executed by electric ballistics in the end. Settled the case setting the stage for many modern criminal trials. But this result doesn't mean the nineteen twenty trial was fair. The ballistics weren't certain and soccer. Inventory were condemned death anyway plus there was never any concrete evidence tying than zero to the case. Massachusetts officially recognized that in nineteen seventy seven fifty years after the Anarchists Executions Governor Michael Dukakis stated that the pair were treated on justly. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Thanks again to Greg Poulsen for joining me here today and every week on secret societies. Thanks for having me. You can find our show. Secret societies on spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. For information on the impact of the Sokoll Vans Eddie. Trial check out the episode of unsolved murders. True Crime Stories on the Wall Street bombing. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound designed by one Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of today in True Crime was written by Nora Patel. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Hi Listeners. If you haven't heard it already. I highly recommend you check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Soko Bartolomeo Van Zeti Greg Poulsen Nicola Sacco Massachusetts Ashley Flowers murder Vanessa Richardson braintree Twenty twenty spotify Massachusetts Shoe Company Fred Parmenter Soko Security Guard soccer US South braintree Massachusetts Sandro Bearer Deli Barrow Deli
Episode 413 | How Lucidchart Grew to 13 Million Users with Freemium

Startups For the Rest of Us

30:25 min | 2 years ago

Episode 413 | How Lucidchart Grew to 13 Million Users with Freemium

"In this episode of startups for the rest of us might going to talk about how lucid chart grew to thirteen million users using the free model. This is up to the rest of us episode, four hundred thirteen. Welcome to the rest of us. The podcast developers, designers and entrepreneurs be awesome building launching and growing software products with the Bill, your first product. You're just thinking about it. I'm rob an Mike, and we're here to share our experiences to help you void the same mistakes we've made toward the sixer. Did you happen to see the announcement that fog bug slash manuscript was being acquired by factory? I got an Email out of the blue and was completely shocked by that. I shouldn't be right fug creek for those who don't know was founded by Dole's Polski and Mike. Prior back in, I believe it was two thousand or two thousand one. And Joe was like the probably the first blogger I ever read any had so many insights about how to start a software company and how to project manage and all that stuff that I was really enthralled by him, and then he launched fog bugs and then but then they went and did stuck overflow and trello and all this other stuff. And I was always like, this is crazy. They've a lot of successes. They also had a city desk, which was they're blogging tool that I don't think that ever wehrley went anywhere. I think they got version two management website, content management tool, Abbas desktop. I read his writers, switch to SAS was happening. Well, you before a WordPress came out or just about the same time and yet, but it was published to the website. So everything was all straight HTML and I think they had a internal beta version that Joel was still using for awhile of like version three a or something like that. Just ever got out there publicly. But yeah, I find it interesting that they decided to sell the, you know that business to an outside company just because the way that they've kind of always run the business, it's it's odd. Yeah, it's definitely unexpected. I don't know what else expected though. I mean, it's frigging seventeen years later. It's like these things don't last forever. You know, it's like Joel. I remember when Joel turned his attention when he stepped down a CEO of frog creek, I was like, oh my gosh. But it's like, well, of course he's going to do stack overflow ride, and I believe my prior steps. Up at that point and then MC prior went off to be CEO. Trello on that took off. I mean, they really use it as an incubator fog creek itself. And so it's no surprise that that you know, they had a third CEO and it's running fog creek. I don't even know running fog bugs. I don't even know fog creek still owns anything else to they or is the company just gonna shut down because they sold trello stack overflows, its own entity. At this point, I don't. They haven't used fog creek developers for years, probably ten years at this point and managed kept the only thing I know that they still had, they're still have glitch. What does that? I don't even know because like they've been working on it for, I don't know three or four years at this point, and I still don't understand what it actually is, which is seems like it's some sort of like it's a programming framework without the program. And I, I don't really understand it to be perfectly honest. It just it doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I don't know. I don't know what to tell you about that. Yeah, and I just googled fog creek glitch, and it's his fog creek is renaming itself. Glitch. We've been thrilled to see the community embrace glitch as the home for creating and discovering the coolest stuff on the web. That sounds like read it. So I know I'm confused at this point. I just have a follow the story and creek has been a basically to be software company or at least manuscript trello was. And then stack overflow was obviously like BC funded stuck overflow, right? Was gonna say social network, but it's more like a question and answer platform. So yeah, it's a trip, man. I have mad respect for for what my mic prior and JOL have built. I mean, you and I both met them in person be OS. I've had multiple conversations. These are smart ethical driven like software developers who have really, I don't know who who've done a lot. I think for both for the people that they've hired but also in sharing their knowledge and building tools. And so I have nothing, but but respect for these guys in the mount of success they've had when you say, yeah, the same person. Same people that started stack overflow also started trello and started this other seven. Eight figure company called fogs is like, that's a lot to do in a in a career. I wonder if part of the reason they spun that off was because of the way that they want to run the business and the way that they want to treat the developers because I think early on they had talked a lot about how they wanted to treat everybody who's working within the company with respect and make sure that they participated in the the successes of the business. And I remember some blog articles or some discussions on one of the podcasts that they'd had at one point talk about stack overflow about how because stack overflow and trello were both born out of creek, like it's some, they had to split the business and how do you compensate the people who were originally in fog creek and work cited in maybe helped out a little bit, but didn't necessarily go with that team. And then there was also question of like somebody hid had an idea for it was co-pilot at the time in an ended up being coming like a a one million dollar line of business for them a are, and it's just like, how do you compensate that person. For the ideas and stuff that they brought in. So at this point, like fog bugs has been running for years, and there's probably not a huge number of things that they're going to add to it. I mean, they could integrate it with other pro business processes and things like that. But there's not a lot of other stuff they could do with it, and it's really just kinda cash cow for them. But like how do you translate that into a financial or monetary success for the people who are currently in the business may have been there for anywhere up to like ten or fifteen years at this point. I mean, because as private company, so like I don't know if I don't think they handout equity, but I don't know. I think they did profit sharing was my recollection and said they did hand out dividends because I said it was a pretty profitable company. Got a on my end. I just got an Email this morning. That said, stripe is now valued at twenty billion dollars. Oh man. There last run was at nine billion. You know, I don't normally follow these funding evaluation stories, but since we basically have had dinner with both the calls and brothers and but on stage with them at Microsoft, I just have a vested interest in keeping up on what they're doing. So Bravo to them. I have nothing, but nothing but respect for those guys. That's kind of that's an insane number, but both of them are super, super smart guys like you stand near them and you just kinda feel dumber. Well, I when I'm around them. Yeah, I feel I feel dumber, but then I feel like my cue points game, maybe five or ten just in speaking to them. Oh, you taught me a new word and a concept that today that I thought I knew for ten years, but you clearly know about exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know mean good for them. I mean, I think a lot of our audience probably still uses stripe stale. What do you mean still uses? I mean, stripe is I wouldn't go anywhere else. It's insane. I think of going back to the days of authorize dot net and pay out web payments pro, you know, I guess there's Braintree now. Right? That's what I was gonna say. I hear that like on the quote, unquote higher end people migrated into Braintree and I don't know of any other options actually other than stripe and Braintree, but I don't know anything about Braintree so, but yeah, it's it's just interesting to see the arc that they've taken over the past eight years or so. It's just crazy how much they've grown. You know the things that they do quite honestly for the entrepreneurial community mean it's just they have enabled the vast majority of us to be able to do what we do. Without stripe, like most of the businesses throughout their just would not exist or it'd be a lot harder to get get him off the ground. I remember trying to get an author as done Neta count, and it just took weeks of literally sending stuff on paper and faxing it back and forth. And this was only maybe six years ago, seven years. I mean, it wasn't that long and I'm not talking two thousand five. It was just insane to me that a our not doing online or at least e signing things, you know. But I literally was like printing out this thirty page document and it was such a nightmare. So I'm glad stripe came on the scene. So I've a spent a fair amount of time over the past couple of weeks like rebuilding and migrating some of my infrastructure in order to cut costs. So I, I've doubled the number of servers gone from two servers to four, and I've reduced the cost of them by about seventy five percent, which is odd, but I'm using, I've everything hosted on his your and they have these things called Burston little virtual machines. So basically if they are. Running below a certain threshold in terms of processor usage, then you pay basically a discounted rate for it, and you know you are gaining credits at that point. And then if you're using more than that percentage than you're basically burning into your credits, I think they max out the CPU with that. But basically I just paid less for this machine or these machines because I'm not using them all day every day. It's like there's certain times the day where I need more processing power, and then the rest of the time I just don't need it. So it's kind of nice to be able to have moved over to those types of Verson save a fair chunk of change, but I needed to split my infrastructure anyway because I didn't like have thing on having everything on just to service. That makes sense. It's nice nice to be able to put a few more bucks in your pocket, and I pushed off on that division for, I don't know, probably year or so. So it was kind of time to do it. Anything else? The last thing this is totally random, but there's a website that I stumbled across when I was trying to calculations for my dungeons and dragons game to optimize my character. And if you're into figuring out probabilities on different dice rolls, you can get over to any dice dot com. And it will basically allow you to write functions that will essentially simulate what the dice rolls are, and then it will show you the percentages and distributions, and you can seek graphs and stuff like that of xactly what those distributions look like. So you can say how many attacks or like if you advantage or disadvantage on different attacks, damage roles or things like that, then it will show you what those numbers look like and what your average roles would be pretty cool. You could probably spend a whole ton of time on it, but they do have some documentation there. Some ready Bill functions just pull and copy paste into the editor. I see what you did there. Mike denies you started that segment off. You said this is totally random. But. See what. Really bad puns. Cool. So let's dive into what we're talking about today. It's an article on a blog of fresh works dot com, and it's actually the sale serum that section that category of the blog. But the article is titled how lucid chart grew to thirteen million users on a land and expand strategy. I wanna talk a little bit about the virology and the Freeman part of it. It's an interesting interview with my believe it's the head of sales. Yeah, s. p. of sales and customer success of LUSA chart. And if you haven't heard of lucid chart, it is software as a service with the freemen model have thirteen million users, and it is like video is I think of it. It's a diagram solution where you can create diagrams and share them and then collaborate on them. Is that an accurate description, Mike? You said you've used it? Yeah, that's probably pretty accurate. I think vizo start seems like it started out much more for data modeling within like a programming environment. Video also has a lot of different icons stuff that you can put in there for like. Network map, layouts in office layouts and stuff like that. So you use it for other things like org charts and stuff like that. But I think originally it seemed like it started out as part of the MSG en suite at like, you know, you get if you sign up for that, and it was primarily a programming tool, right and expanded another lucid chart. It looks like it was started around two thousand ten, twenty seven, and they raised a million dollars in funding which you would need right if you're going to free me model and then they raised three years later, they raised five million and then two years after that in two thousand sixteen thirty six million. So I can imagine they probably hit a hockey stick moment where user growth, justified raising. 'cause you're is that much money, you wanna have really high valuation say, don't give away most of your company. They said that ninety six percent of fortune five hundred companies use it. They have customers that Google Amazon, Cisco and Intel, and they receive around five hundred thousand sign ups every month which it's a free tool free. No credit card if I recall. So that's still a big number though. Oh, still a nice horizontal market that these guys are in. So they've obviously cheap success. Thirteen million users is a ton of people to ten people to support. It's a ton of people just to have your software running. I wish that they told us how many paying users or how many paying accounts, because that's really what I'm interested in really wanna. I'm interested to know if they, you know, are even profitable on revenue above the the amount of just sheer volume because they must have hundreds of employees. And I would like to know that. But all that said, what I want to talk about today is really, you know, the the freemen, the viral and have some stuff about sales as well. I'm sure they're competitors would love to know how much money they're making two totally. I know it'll come out at some point Radoman they'll they'll wind up talking about. All right. Well, why don't we dive right in then? Sure. So the first question for Dan cook, which is PF sales. The interview asks him a runs on a free model. How do you pitch the product and how do you scale it to an enterprise model and his. Is the freemen gives them an advantage because they have this. This is where the land and expand comes in within a company. They get employee's within a company using the product, and then they share it with other people in the company to collaborate, and then they set up accounts. So there's a Freeman plus virology there. And the reason they signed up for it is because it's free and because it's it's a good tool. And in the early days, it was good enough. It was not a great tool, but as it's available bet these days, it's it is best in class or is becoming that. And so he said that basically they can have fifteen or twenty paid or free users of LUSA chart within a company. And then they just, they leverage that fact to say, all right, IT department, here's a value proposition for you. And this is a similar model to other tools slack. I've heard them talk about this a lot that one small development team within a huge or good start using it. And of course you have to invite other people to have any value. And then once you have ten twenty thirty users. IT departments, and frankly, CTO's CIO's want to have control of that kind of stuff. So. Interesting. Interesting. Dul you so that Freeman plus by rally, I've seen that at much much smaller scale and blue tick where like somebody will sign up for blue tick and the like the one of the early objections I heard from somebody was like, oh, well, I wanted to sign up for it, but then I would have had to go to my boss and get my get his credit card 'em that free model like even just the fourteen day trial that I had that added in after talking to the customer, it allows them to sign up for it without having to go to their boss and justify like, hey, I need the corporate credit card and it's gonna cost us money because in a enterprise environment, they're probably gonna not only have to go to their boss, but then their boss is gonna have to justify it somebody else. And nobody really knows if it's gonna work. Whereas if they just start using it and free model, they can just use it in if it doesn't work out for them, they shut it down or just abandon it. And if it does then as more people start using it, then it becomes more visible and as a result of his success than. LUSA char can go in and ask them for money for like an enterprise license or a small group license within a department or something like that. But it is interesting to see that they seem to have intentionally done that or chosen that strategy. Right. And I wanna point out some things at lucid cart has or had that, you know, listener to this podcast may not have and if you don't have all of these things in place, it's going to be difficult if not impossible to pull off the strategy that they did these freemen strategy. Do you want to start with thirty six million dollars or say funding? That's the first one, and it wasn't thirty six original and for the first three years, it was a million. That's not actually that much money for three years, right? I mean, it's you can hire a few people, but it's not like you're gonna hire twenty. And not bleed that out. But yes, funding was one thing. One advantage they had a million dollars in funding another five, three years later, the fact that they are a very horizontal market much like trello and dropbox and slack. Those are three other tools that have used the same approach this Freeman plus viral component. So if you're in a horizontal market and you can raise enough funding or self-funded thing to the point where you can provide the service to all the free users, it really can be this. You know, this fascinating approach. The other thing is they have. I rally not every tool has that, I think of a tool like trip or even a proposal, software invoicing software. There's a little bit of rally and that you can have a powered by or sent sent from or sent with, but true, like deep virology, like trello where pretty frequent. I mean, I use some Trelleborg boards without other people, but there's a lot of collaboration that goes on there. Slack is all about being viral, right? I mean, you have to invite other people to get any value. Lucid chart does not need need need, you know, you'd have another person to get value. But I would say that's probably a big reason that that people would use it because it's so easy to get your charts and collaborate. And then of course, dropbox has has it's all things. So having virology, plus that premium, I think is a big thing that people overlook because having Freeman on its own without funding being horizontal and virology is not all it's cracked up to be. I think this is also a tool that because of what you're using it for, you're using it to like, help communicate that helps it to like that kind of sets it apart from a lot of other tools, trello to some extent, just by inviting people you get to, you know, have them take a look at what is that you're working on, but with LUSA chart, like you can print those things out or you're going to bed them into a word document or even just take screen shots. And, but by Deibel to invite people say, hey, this is the processor, this workflow that I'm looking at. What do you think is this gonna work for our team? That right there is because it's embedded in the communications like that just inherently makes it even more viral. Because if people look at the tool and they'd like it and they want to use it because it's a lot easier to use than something like video, it gives it those additional advantages. It gives people the moment that they need in order. Yeah, I wanna I wanna use this to another question that he asks, you know, this VP of sales, which I thought was kind of cool because I hadn't thought that much about it, but he says, let's talk about your value proposition. How does it work when you're convincing them a company to buy the enterprise version? What do the teams and went to the enterprise, the enterprise get out of it? Why don't they just keep using their individual accounts? And I liked that because a are asking, why should they upgrade right or why should they consolidate? And he says, basically, the value to the end user is that it's all consolidated in. It's much easier to share among their co workers and you don't have to. Vert diagrams and other formats to be compatible. So if everybody starts using it in your company, then you don't have to, oh, well, you're using video. I'm using, let's you know, convert to this format and blah, blah, blah. And then to the IT department, it's the first one is consolidated billing just so there's only one Bill and you know that you can go shape that and manage it easier to do it also for training, if people a lot of big companies, especially provide training for their tools in if you'd just have everybody using one tool, it's easier and then secure Loggins, which is fine. But the one that I really think gets them is document retention, which is where someone leaves the company and you want as someone running that company or renting to department, you want to have access everything they did while they were there because you made a reference later and if they take individual accounts away with them, Daniel never get that stuff back this stealing, taking it away. It's just kind of goes way right. They forget about it or they just, you just don't have access to. That was a big one. You know, working at pages and drip is seeing people leaving and being like. Oh, yeah. There is at one thing that he shared with me and now I don't have access to it like it was. It could be kind of a pain. So it's interesting to think if you're gonna try to pull this off about what the value prop is that you have to offer for people to upgrade. The other interesting piece there that's kind of in that enterprise group subscription. There is the idea that it's not just if somebody leaves the company, but what happens if you have to fire somebody, you wanna be able to have this master key that says, okay, we're going to lock you out of everything before we follow through with leading this person go and then still have access to all that stuff. So there's that side of it to consider too. I think you know one, two person dozens is don't tend to think about that, but you know, because they just don't experience it. But the larger companies that they are advertising to agencies or other small businesses, fifty hundred people. Those companies do think about that, and it is important to them and it's good understand that that is a value proposition that you can leverage to as a marketing point to those larger companies and say, look, this is why you should upgrade or the. Why you should buy higher price here because we're including this for your account versus like a freelance recount which doesn't really have any of that stuff in. Oh, yeah, the twenty five people have twenty five different freelancer counts. Yes, not ideal because they get twenty five different bills. But at the same time, that master key is kind of what people are looking for. And then ask a question about their outbound sales process, and he says, yeah, we have eighty sales people, and their core play is basically companies that already have some form of adoption. Right? So you likely would guessing you're either going to use some type of data augmentation tool like a full contact to augment your customer data to know who they work for orange look at Email address, look at the domain the dot com on the end of their Email and do a group by and see how many people are using it. You know as simple as that, it's like if you get twenty people inside Disney or target, right, or best buy or something, it's like they reach out and say, hey, you have twenty people that have signed up for account. It's you wanna you know, aggregate that it's, it's an interesting thing I've heard. I believe it was other slacker. Trello also talked about this as a as a an approach to. It's like warm, outbound, you know, it's an interesting interesting approach and you just hope that their CEO isn't. So total or their CTO isn't. So totally paranoid that he says, no outside tools that are based in the cloud and shuts them down. Yeah, could happen. I suppose. I think that's a lot less common today than I think it was five or ten years ago, but I have run into those people who say that kind of stuff, and there's usually exceptions for that. Not everybody, the can't have possibly have everything like self hosted. There's just not realistic. Yep. And there's just a couple more questions that I think are relevant one is he asked him, how did you like lucid chart? Is the popular alternative to Microsoft vizo? How do you differentiate yourself? He's basically gracefully says we're grateful to busy. Oh, but it's outdated. It's a classic Microsoft's out product and it hasn't been a lot of innovation on it since they acquired it in in two thousand. So that's that whole thing where, yeah, you can have a better funded competitor. But as a start up, your secret superpower is that you are. You can move fast and you can be closer to the customer. Right? Because I'm guessing a lot of the developers working on video, assuming there are some still they're not nearly as close contact as someone at lucid chart is when they're in their customer success department, having one on one conversations with their with their clients. And I think that's part of partly difference in how the product was originally engineered because Microsoft, like there is a cloud version of visual. I believe. So is it's abled for people to collaborate on stuff, which has always been the biggest problem with video documents is that it's like a word document that you have to basically send it back and forth. And even if you're using something like dropbox, you still have the problem of having multiple people trying to work on the same thing at the same time. And it just doesn't work very well. And that's why Google docs has kind of come around and been such a massive up star in the past. What was it like ten fifteen years ago. And that came out, but word had been out in the mid nineties early nineties. If like something like loosen charges has a fundamentally different delivery mechanism than video in video has to maintain that backward compatibility. So they're not able to do the same types of things for LUSA chart. They're like, we don't care about actually running locally on the desktop. It just doesn't matter to them which was gives him some advantages right there, right? It's interesting to think like if Microsoft really cared about the market and I don't think it's big enough for them to care about probably but they would build a should have would have built a web based version back in two thousand eight. Because it was totally doable, but they didn't end. So somebody decided some point not to do that, you know. And I know they have collaboration features now built into the office tools. I don't use many of the office tools anymore only when I kind of absolute we need to. I'm just in Google docs all the time. Right. I bet they sunk all the resources and windows vista windows vista. History. That must've been it. Sorta rounded out, you know, he asked him, what do you think are the top three reasons for Lisa charts success? And he says, well, people need visual communication tools in there really wasn't anything that was that great second is we made it enterprise ready so that selling into the enterprise was not hard. So they've collaboration in the integrations and all that stuff and Freeman, those are the three things he says, and I think he leaves out the virology. I actually believe that the fact that the market is big, I think is a good thing, right? They chose a large market and the fact that people do I have a loose chart account. The reason have is because I got invited by two separate people onto separate diagrams. So I would count as one of the thirty million users. I don't go in. I've never created a lucid chart dagger myself, but I have collaborated with other people. So I think that's an element like a four thing that that he didn't mention that I do think is probably a decent driver of their trough on ups. I do think the other thing that really helps him as the fact that it's just surprisingly easy to be able to get in. And get started with LUSA char and like create some things that are generically applicable across the business without being locked into, oh, I have to use this for data modeling and it sorta does these other things well, but not really. And that's kind of the way I would describe the difference between video and chart. Whereas LUSA chart doesn't necessarily have a lot of the the data tie ins to be able to, let's say, for example, like a database design, but there's lots of other ways to do that these days. And so that kinda makes vizier I'll say a little bit less powerful in that respect. But you don't need that with with a LUSA chart like you can just create a generic process like instead of sketching it out on paper and saying, oh, well, I've got this customer support process that's gotta do this, or I got this marketing process where got this Email drip campaign over here in a sales page over there, like you can wire them up in lucid char and use that to document your marketing sales funnel, for example. And it works really, really well for that. The downside is you do have to keep it up today because nothing's automatic. But as long as you need to documented anyway, you may as well use something like LUSA chart where you can create good documentation, that kind of shows you how everything ties together five hundred thousand sign ups every month, Mike, what would you do with that? I dunno ticket to the Bank retire, and that's crazy. I can just imagine the processes they must have in place in order to even be able to support that many users. I'd be interested to see like what they have for like a backend infrastructure because I'm just like an engineered like that was like, how the heck do you handle that much? Like how many is that per minute? No, I know. So one point of data is I went to crunch base and it says, according to Al Allard dot com that they have seven point one million in annual revenue. So you don't know how accurate that is, but it's it's an estimate by an outside company and five hundred thousand sign ups a month. That's about one every five seconds, which is just insane. No, it's crazy and they say, let's see. Employees count is between one hundred and one and two fifty about what I expect. It says it, Tim of one hundred and fifty plus employees. You don't know when that was written, but I guess there was even a year ago. I bet there at one probably over two hundred now. So that gives you an idea of their size, and that's the thing you know, they've raised forty two million dollars seven if they are at seven million or ten million in annual revenue, that's not a home run. They need to get bigger than that in order to return that kind of funding because their valuation was probably I mean, definitely north of a hundred million, right? I'm a hundred twenty one hundred eighty million somewhere in that range. If I were to guess. And at that point you need to sell for, you know, half a billion or billion dollars to like return venture return. So to get there, you need to have one hundred million air are. So they have a long way to go to get there. And that's, you know, I don't want folks to take this entire episode the wrong way. I'm not saying that we should all Ma. Ourselves after least chart or anything like that. I'm pointing out the way to use freedom viral loops. Thinking about horizontal markets, thinking about other ways to approach problems, how could you in your little maybe be to be bootstrapped niche, try to incorporate some of these things. The other takeaway you could have for our audience of listeners is that even with five hundred thousand sign ups a month, as you said financially, this is probably still not a home run, right? And if they hadn't raised forty million, it could be right if they'd only raise the six could've done it, then that's a totally different story. But that's where like raising a lot of funding and having his valuation means you have higher much higher expectations at that point, right? And it's all it does is kind of dilute the founder and you know, all the some of the investors early investors may, but you know, it makes it hard to have a spectacular exit if you've also weighed down by too much investment. Well, on that note, I think that about wraps us up. If you have a question for us in colored into our voicemail number at one eight zero one nine six, nine zero. Or you can Email it to us questions, star dot com. Our theme music is excerpt from, we're outta control by moot, used under creative Commons, subscribe to knighthoods by searching for startups, visit stops for us dot com for full transcript. Each episode. Thanks for listening and we'll see next time.

IT department Freeman Microsoft Mike fog creek CEO Braintree Joel CTO fug creek Abbas Joe hockey BC Dan cook
A Shooting in Alabama

True Crime Brewery

1:47:35 hr | 1 year ago

A Shooting in Alabama

"True crime grew contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment. Listener discretion is advised. They say woman opened fire during a biology faculty meeting at the university of Alabama's Huntsville campus, Friday, three people were killed three others were injured. Sometimes totally before four PM. Call was made for the Chevy center for science and technology to the hospital police department university, police hustle. Police department responded secured to building and they found the victims officials say the suspected shooter was caught and arrested outside the Shelby center. A science building local media are reporting that the shooter was a faculty member all three of those killed and two of the injured were faculty members the third injured person was a staff member they say Amy Bishop had the ultimate grudge to bear against her fellow professors and began shooting them one by one. Welcome to true crime burry. I'm Jill, and I'm dick when you think of a mass shooter, you don't envision someone like Amy Bishop forty five years old female Harvard educated biology, professor and mother of four Amy Bishop would seem an unlikely killer. It was three pm on February twelfth two thousand ten and thirteen professors and staff members from the university of Alabama biology department met in a third floor conference room plant biologists Gopi Padilla passed out the printed Genda and sat beside Amy Bishop Amy had a hand gun in her purse, Amy was normally quite vocal in these meetings. But that day she was silent in brooding, she shot six of her co workers killing three before she washed up and called her husband for a ride home. The police would arrive before. He did. But Amy's homicidal rampage did not come out of nowhere investigations into her background would reveal a troubled person with a history of violence and probable cover up in her hometown. In Massachusetts today in a shooting in Alabama will delve into the life of a killer atypical, but just as devious and dangerous as any other at how many points in our life. Could she have been thwarted? And why wasn't she? I have a beer that actually comes from a brewery in Huntsville where Amy was employed at the university of Alabama Huntsville perfect. So the beer is called a Ludia. And it's brewed by straight to ale in Huntsville, it's an English old Dale, and these are beers it in the olden days were transferred into vats to age, hence, the name old male. They tend to be multi year somewhat fruity and the content can vary quite a bit. This particular wins eleven point five percent. So it's it's up there. This is a sipping beer it's a murky Brown color with a small head. It's not particularly attractive when you look at it. Nice, aroma. You get some grapes and some alcohol. The grapes are apparent in the taste is a clinic. Very very nice fathered by some maple. And then there's a little leather and toffee just a wonderful beer nice to sip warms you as you sit. If it great one to drink. So let's take it down to the quiet end. And maybe we'll share with people. I don't know. Well, let's see how it goes. We are friendly. So we might share we possibly could. And this is a good beer for this kind of day. It was kind of cool or at least what passes for cool here. There's a nice fire going in the fireplace. Everyone's kinda comfy. Good beer for this type of setting. All right. Let's open it. Okay. Okay. So Amy Bishop grew up in a nineteenth century Victorian home in Braintree, Massachusetts. Her mother Judy came from a New England family in Exeter, New Hampshire where her grandfather had owned a shoe factory duty that her husband so tier pup gloss at the New England school of art in Boston. He would later change his name to Samuel Bishop. He was raised by Greek immigrants in Somerville. Massachusetts join the airforce in nineteen fifty four in nineteen sixty four having been married. They moved to a city where Sam did graduate work at the university of Iowa. He was a fine arts student during the day in school and he worked as a janitor at night. Amy was born in nineteen sixty five and she was smart little girl may be a little bit on the OC decide there were stories of her kind of lining up her toys in a certain way, which really. Give you that OCD feeling we're she she likes to have things arranged neatly. Yeah. So the family then returned to Massachusetts after Sam graduated because he got a teaching job in the art department at northeastern they settled down in Braintree in nineteen sixty eight when aim us three and her brother Seth was born later that same year Amy was a pretty normal child, maybe a little neurotic she had asthma. And there were many trips to the ER when she was little her interest in science was at least in part due to her frequent interactions with doctors and nurses at the hospital. She began taking violin lessons in the third grade. And her brother Seth soon followed in her footsteps now, it's been said that there was an intense sibling rivalry between Amy and Seth. But on the other hand several people have also said that the two kids were very close. They were friends, but Amy had always resented. How easily Seth got along with people when they were at Braintree high school together, she was kind of the weird outcast girl. A year ahead of him who was kind of popular and things just seem to come easier to stuff now they were both shy kids but Seth like to go on adventures on his bike. He would leave Braintree with a pen and a map and explore around the surrounding communities. Sometimes Judy the mom would be driving miles from home and see Seth riding along on the side of the road. He was a curious young man who liked to find out how things worked. He was also unexpectedly self-confident for a small studious sky once in middle school. He was surrounded in the cafeteria by classmates who were bullying and teasing him for carrying a violin. Seth on his violin and began to play until the bullies Bechtel. Way he was a talented musician any it stopped their targeting by showing off his talent and his skill. Then a senior in high school. Seth began dating junior named Melissa Tae tro Mamie by that time, it moved to bust into attend northeastern did not approve this new girlfriend. She didn't seem to have a valid reason for a disapproval, but everyone knew how difficult Amy could be pleased or impress. Well. And some people also said that the family was kind of inpenetrable we get that impression closed off the research. We did that it was something that both parents had as a characteristic, right? So it's kinda hard to break in and be accepted. Right. When when Amy started dating the guy who became her husband, the bishops basically ignored him. Really? I did not know that they're so he would come over. And they just wouldn't speak to him. Is that what you're saying? You're. Wow. That is odd at the wedding the bishops basically Nord his whole family. That's strange. Why? I mean, he was in college with hurry seemed like he was okay about her age in their own way of doing things. Okay. Now in nineteen eighty-five Bishop family had been out, and they returned home to find a first floor window wide open the house had been broken into. So judy's wedding ring pair of silver cups, and some other valuables have been taken Judy wrote a letter to the local paper pleading for the return of the items which held set the mental value. They never did get returned. Sam went out and bought a twelve gauge shotgun Judy and Amy of jetted to having a gun in the house, but Sam insisted on keeping it unloaded anyway in his bedroom. Closet, and he kept a box of shells on his bedroom dresser. So he was. Ready for when those people broke in again now, maybe it's just me that would make me feel less safe. I mean, if you look at statistics, it might be a little less safe to have that in your house than to not have a gun in your house. You're looking at it from another angle that can kind of see if you've been the one broken into that you'd want to be able to have means of protecting your house in your family. We were broken into. And I was a kid. We had that experience. Also, when I was younger, and we didn't go out and buy a gun, but I can see his point of view. I know, but look how it ended up taking a risk there. Right. So it was a little over a year later. It was December sixth nineteen eighty six when the Braintree police received a nine one one call from Judy Bishop her daughter had shot her son. She said she told the police that she had witnessed the whole thing. And that it was an accident. Judy Bishop was waiting by the front door when police arrived at the house. Judy was known for being stoic in. Public, but she did appear strangely. Calm there were no tears, no hysteria. And she wasn't beside her son as he was dying. Seth was just eighteen years old, and he was face down on the linoleum floor of the kitchen. He had a whole pouring blood from the right side of his chest. Amy had run out of the house with the weapon that had killed him in Sam the dad was out at the mall shopping for Christmas presents so that morning. Judy had gotten up while it was still dark the rest of the family were still asleep upstairs when she drove to nearby Quincy where she stabled her horse. She usually spent a few hours exercising, the horse and cleaning out the stable the Braintree police station was under two miles from the Bishop house. So officers showed up within a couple of minutes and Judy met them at the front door with blood on her clothing in the kitchen where she pointed to them, she. He pointed for them to go there. Seth was bleeding to death or he was already dead possibly from a chest wound as paramedics tried to save. Seth Judy spoke to the police. She didn't stay by his side or plead with paramedics to save him. As a lot of mothers. Would she would say later that she knew he couldn't be saved? So sure, but how would you accept that? So quickly. That's your child. It's presented as her being rather cold, doesn't it it? Sure does. Yeah. Even the, you know, his dying or has died you'd wanna hold him, and you'd wanna hold onto hope to the very last second Judy. No. According to Judy Seth had just returned home from the grocery store, and she was in the kitchen with him when Amy came downstairs carrying that new shotgun. Judy told the police Amy said to me I have shell in the gun, and I don't know how to unload it. I told Amy not to point the gun at anybody. But as Amy swung the weapon around to show it to her brother, Judy said the gun fired. So it was a small kitchen and Amy had been standing close to her brother. So this shot hits Seth point blank. But when he collapsed Judy told police Amy took off this what she showed up at a local body shop around two thirty in the afternoon type Pettigrew, and his co worker Jeff dwell Rhenish up when they heard a loud banging the back door, so Pettigrew swing open the door and his chest bumped, right. Into the end of pump action shotgun so Amy's holding it up aimed right at him. Jeff Joel stood next to him. So for minute. They thought it was a hold up because these two guys had recently robbed in ATM, and they hit twenty five thousand dollars stashed inside the shop. It's a strange coincidence, isn't it? So they're thinking that Amy might have been after the money. Well, yeah. Because they were feeling very paranoid. Anyway, where? Yeah, you get this hall, and they're trying to get a divided up and stuff, and boom, here's the door. Bang open and news is woman pointing the shotgun. Adam. That'd be rather paranoid. So many had on a blue winter coat with gray sweatpants and white sneakers. But no socks she seemed pretty calm for someone who had just shot her own brother. Although they obviously didn't know that she had done that. But she didn't seem terribly excited or stress. She's a lot like her mom, I guess, so she had dry eyes and the and she was staring at the men. She said put your hands up. I need a car and shoes looking around nervously. According to these guys, but kept a steady grip on the gun. Give me your keys. I just got in a fight with my husband. And he's trying to hurt me. I have to get out of here. He's going to kill me. You have to give me a car. She said already hear stories little different than what actually happened. It's a totally different story than reality. Totally. So the two guys ran away and they hid the police had already been called it would turn out because Amy had tried to carjack a driver before she ran into these guys. But the driver took off race to her nearby home and called nine one one and it would turn out. There was more than one person that she tried to carjack that day. So to twenty two Braintree police officers were rushing toward the scene. This was before the call came in from Judy Bishop about the shooting these other people that Amy had tried to carjack and threaten right, right? So is officers speeding to the Bishop home. Others begin hunt for the woman running loose with the shotgun. Turns out that after Pettigrew Doyle ran away Amy at walked toward another nearby business village news, which is a newspaper distribution center. She was weaving through parked cars in the latte with a shotgun held against your chest. Just like a railing baby. And onlooker said that she looked days Tim green who was only seventeen was working loading newspapers onto a truck. He turned around at Amy had the gun pointed directly at him. Do you have a car she asked and in a panic Tim yelled inside to the other kids that were working there? Hey this girl needs a car. And the only response he got from one of the kids was no fucking way. Not a chance. Yep. So these co workers were all crouched behind stacks of newspapers, she's threatening. All these people's lives pointing the gun at him. Yeah. You don't do that. So Boston Globe truck pulled into the lot just is Braintree. Police. Cruisers did Tim and his co workers shouted out. She's right there. She has a gun Braintree? Police officer run solemnity was break. Solar Meany Braintree. Police officer Ron Sola Meany was the first despite Amy Bishop out of the corner of his eye as she was making her way toward the trucks. So the officer exited his cruiser and made his way toward her with his gun drawn held in his right hand down by his holster. And is he approached Amy she just stared at him and she refused to lower her gun. She kept both her hands on the shotgun as he was talking to her and trying to convince her to drop the gun. So he ordered her to drop it. But she just stared at him. Then he tried softening. His tone and said look hun. Why don't you put that down and come with me over to the cruiser? We can straighten this all out if this was somebody else. I don't think they'd be treated this way. She's lucky she wasn't shot dead right on site. I mean, the officers had the right then to shoot her. Absolutely. Yes. She wouldn't put the gun down. That's true. But she's there. I say Caucasian women now. I mean, I think you have to because there's no other way to look at it. Really? I'm not gonna get into the whole thing. But we know that she was treated with kid gloves right from the start. Yeah. So just at that exact time another Braintree. Police officer arrived officer Murphy move, slowly from the other side of the building. So Amy wouldn't see him. And so the Meany did Sam and he tried to keep Amy's is on himself. So Murphy jumped up on the back of a news truck tried to see which would be the most successful way to grab the shotgun. From her without a going off. Jumped in the back of the truck to about five feet behind her pulled out his gun pointed at the back of her head drop, it he told her, but Amy didn't move after third and final command Murphy moved in behind her and grabbed the end of the shotgun. She loosened to grip and the weapon fell to the ground and Murphy, grab the gun as Sola Meany health. Amy's Rhys gun was loaded. Murphy padded Amy down in found another shot gun show in her pocket. This is very damning. And at this point in the story. We're thinking this girl's gonna do some time. She shot and killed your brother, and she's pointed the weapon at other people and fleeing is always seen as a sign of guilt. Wouldn't you think she'd be facing charges? I would so Judy Bishop head enough although in Braintree to help her daughter, she was actually kind of powerful in the local political scene. Judy served on the town committee, which was an elective. Legislative panel of two hundred and forty people who had control over how the town spent its money. So that could give you some power and that included how much money was funneled into the police department. I can sort of see that this is a huge panel. It was but she was kind of a leader type. She was outspoken. So I think it's significant could be and more significant maybe is that she was also very close to the police chief John polio threats much more significant there were actually some rumors that she in police were having an unfair. So she put a call into the chief before the ambulance had even arrived to pick up. Seth what do you think of that? I think that she in polio were probably intimate stuff. We've read states that. He was a womanizer. Then he had a few affairs. And there is an implication. Not as strongly stated as with polio. There's an intimation that Judy was also popular with some people with men, and she was reasonably attractive more. So than her daughter. I really haven't seen any pictures of her. But that's what I've read in different people statements description. He added she was kind of a babe. Yeah. So I think that the rumors of the affair probably true. And that's what helped it Amy released. So to forty five officer Sola Amini drove Amy to the Braintree police station per in handcuffs. Amy, volunteer that she'd had an argument with her father prior to the shooting. Sola meaty didn't ask you to elaborate on the statement. He wanted to get her into a booking room for an interrogation. He was pretty shaken up himself. You just realizing how close he had come to being shot, and she's holding this gun big city swat man or something, you know, this is an unusual experience for him in Braintree. Yeah. But he did read her Miranda rights, and she said that she had been alone in the house, and after her mother had left for the stable cer- father and brother hit each gone out separately. So she stated that she loaded the shotgun because she'd been worried about robbers coming back to the house. She said that Seth had taught her how to load the weapon, but not how to unload it. So she had loaded several shells into the gun. But as she was trying to figure out how to remove them. She accidentally fired a shot shattering a mirror and blowing a hole in her bedroom wall when she heard Seth come home. She went downstairs and asked him to help her unload. It an issue turn the shotgun. Went off. She was asked if she shot her brother on purpose, and she denied it. She said, no. But she did tell the police that are father had left the house that morning after a family spat and later in SAM's interview, he described it as just a disagreement with Amy over a comment that she had made. Aid very vague, very he left the house around eleven thirty AM he said to shop for Christmas presents at the nearby mall. Now, pay attention to this timeframe because if you believe like I do that Judy was home at eleven thirty or twelve and the father left at eleven thirty. She really wasn't alone for a period of time where she would have been nervous about robbers which was her claim, right? And we don't have any evidence that this had happened previously. I'm sure there were times when Avia been alone in the house that she go and load the shotgun. Each time, she's an adult. She's not a little kid. Yeah. So it's a little strange guests, but it gets stranger certainly does Amy was ordered to be released by the chief of police. John polio. He called the station in order that she'd be released into her mother's custody. This was after mom had called polio because she called him right away. Pro him right away and actually stormed into the. Police station. So this decision to that. She would be released in by this custody did not go over well with the Braintree police officers who had been exposed to the loaded gun. So Amy wasn't fingerprinted or photographed and no detective is even given a chance to interrogator. The case was tossed even the initial Braintree. Police reports were written under the heading accidental shooting that determination had been made a fischel before any investigation had even taken place. Judy Bishop was heard telling police officer that afternoon, I just lost one child. I am not going to lose. Both Sam finally rushed to the hospital. And was there a little after three pm when Seth was pronounced dead. When Amy was released from the police station, Judy and Sam took her home due to the highly emotional state of Amy Bishop it had generally been impossible to question her while she was that the brain. Police department is what a police report read. So Amy was released to the custody of her parents and further investigation was supposedly going to follow. Now. Meanwhile, while the family have been out of the house, some neighbors come over and wash blood from the kitchen floor, supposedly, so the family wouldn't have to deal with. I'm sure that was their intention, but the police should have never let that happen. The crime scene unit. Detectives had discovered something that the first responders said missed the twelve gauge shotgun had actually been fired three times a blast had ripped through the wall and Amy's bedroom between her bed in the night table and that shot had broken. Amir a lamp on the table. Amy had apparently tried to hide that whole with a band-aid tin box into book cover. There was also a spent shell on the floor that they recovered a box of twenty one shells was taken in as evidence from Judy in SAM's bedroom, where the gun had been kept on locked the police it inexplicably vacated the crime scene and left it in the care of a neighbor. According to one of the police reports when? It came to this shooting. Nothing was really making sense, including the way that the reports were written that state police said there wasn't any need for trooper to respond, and the fact that Amy Bishop was allowed to go home that very night. It's all very suspicious. It's terrible. So Seth bishops initial cause of death was due to a ruptured a order from the gunshot wound. It's not a good blood vessel to rupture. Now, you have to be like immediately doing surgery to him any chance you'll bleed out. Boom. Yes. So it seven PM that day. An autopsy was performed in the presence of the Braintree police detective and the autopsy concluded that Seth Bishop had been shot from very close range and that the shot ripped from the front to the back. He had obviously lost too much blood to have survived and the coroner made his ruling cause of death was accidental pending police investigation which went along with the police reports every one of the reports to that point listed under the title incident accidental shooting. Okay. So let's review. Ok three shots. From a shotgun were fired in a suburban home by disturbed woman who then attempted to carjack several people there were three bullet holes one hidden in her bedroom. One in the ceiling of the kitchen and one in her younger brother's chest still the incident was described as exit Antle without any investigation. Right. And the other thing about this is that this shotgun is a Mossberg shotgun. That's the maker. And you need to have a fair amount of pull on the trigger to get it to fire. So the likelihood of being fired accidentally it's pretty small you really need to exert some pressure. Make go off to click it or whatever to get the neck shell in. So if you've accidentally shot at once, there's not another one ready to shoot unless you do it on purpose, nor you have to racket, right? That is the word that objects spent showcase and puts another bullet ready to fire. So she did that at least twice. So we've seen it in the movies right with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Somebody strolling around firing a gun racking it firing again. Basically we've seen that in a quiet place in bird bucks to write. It does make people look bad ass when they do that. Sure. Does. But the the point is this is not. Not a gun that gets accidents fired. Which is what the bishops were claiming that it it just went off without even finger on the trigger. Right. Yeah. Well, also, Amy was released after her mother demanded it and the chief. Agreed. According to the detective who was trying to interview Amy with her consent. Judy stormed right into the booking room. And she said Amy shut up right now don't say another word. We are getting out of here. You are coming home with me. She's not answering any more questions. She's coming home with me. She's leaving here tonight. So she was boss lady. Ben, you're the police knew that Judy had some political pull, but no one had ever stormed into a booking room before. And this woman your daughter Amy at shot someone dead, then tried to carjack people. But probably most appalling, she pointed a loaded shotgun at Braintree police officers, and yet she's still got to walk out of the station without even having a mugshot taken. So the cops believed that polio was either crazy or corrupt. Sometimes these things are combination. So Norfolk county district attorney Bill Delahunt would make the ultimate decision in the case Delahunt had experienced investigators in Massachusetts state police working for him. And one of these troopers was detective, Brian how how is the trip around call that December night, and he would later say that an officer called him and said, Brian we haven't eighteen year old dead here in Braintree looks like an accidental shooting. We can take care of the reports. I think we got this one. Wow. That was an unusual move. It was the district. Attorney would make the final decision on whether or not a homicide had been committed in the bishop's kitchen some Braintree. Cops felt how should have showed up regardless of what the small town cops were telling him putting two later. Testimony phone calls were exchanged between chief polio. And the prosecutors in Norfolk county, and Brian how was told that there was no need to interrupt his Saturday in light of the nature of the crime accidental. How was told he would not be responding to the secured primesee, which let's remember it was only secured by a neighbor that was cleaning up the blood. You really can't call that a secured crime-scene any stretch. Well, they didn't even press. They didn't even process the crime scene before the neighbors came by and cleaned up. The blood one officer close to the family even stopped by if he could pick up any food for them. The press was kept away from the story and the big. For papers, the Boston Globe. And the Boston Herald never reported this death at all Braintree police detective, Michael Carey, his boss kept in Theodore Bucher and state police trooper Brian how did not visit the Bishop home until December seventeen and that's eleven days after Seth was killed. So those eleven days would have given the bishops plenty of time to get their story straight. They all said that their house was very soundproof. And that was their explanation for why the first shotgun blast that Amy fired in her bedroom wasn't heard by Judy. But the that's a mistake. Anyway, this is an old home certainly wasn't soundproof relatively soundproof. I wouldn't think to the point where you couldn't hear a shotgun. Blance a noisy gun, plus a mirror broke. That's loud too. So, but anyway, that's the explanation for why Seth and Judy didn't hear anything when the first drive can blasted fired an accidental shooting was just repeated over and over in these conversations, right? And no one was ever questioned about the family spat that have been mentioned on the afternoon of the shooting. Now, they never even asked Amy why she fled the home with her coat on. She didn't have a coat on. I wouldn't think before why she put on a coat and leave. Good question some crime scene. Investigators didn't even bother to measure the trajectory of the shots to see if Amy's version matched the forensic evidence. The bullet hole in the ceiling of the kitchen separate from the shot that hit Seth was never mentioned in the report at all. There was no evidence collected. No fingerprints taken and the shotgun. Even was returned to the family when they news release that same day. Holy cow. I know it's really amazing. So Amy claimed not to remember anything between the time when the gun off in the kitchen, and when her mother arrived pick her up at the police station. So she claimed that she was not aware that she had shot her brother when she fled her home. I just can't believe that this whole thing is just stretching ability. How can you not know you shot your brother point blank? How can you not know? And that's something that she seems to us when she gets into trouble is all I just don't remember years later when she killed her co workers at the university of Alabama Huntsville, she said, I don't remember. Right. And there really isn't any psychiatric diagnosis to make that believable. No, Amy moved on with their life graduating from northeastern enrolling in the PHD program in genetics at Harvard. She very rarely talked about Seth Amy met, Jim Anderson. Another student at northeastern in. Campus group for playing dungeons and dragons and other role playing games. So after they dated for a few years. They did get married in nineteen eighty nine in nineteen Ninety-one Amy gave birth lily who was followed by two more, daughters thea and fade DRA friends, describe Amy as a loving, high strung mom, she found the PHD program, very difficult, and she didn't perform as well at Harvard as she had northeastern but in nineteen ninety three after revising her thesis. She did get her degree. Now. There's some talk that she might not have deserve to get that degree bureau. A lot of discussion when all this shit happened at the university of Alabama that she hadn't been a good candidate for a PHD and pros should not have been awarded that degree. But you know, it's kind of hindsight stuff. Well, I guess whatever. The thing is she did. In fact, get a degree. She did. So then in nineteen Ninety-three while she's doing some post doctoral work, she and her husband. Jim was suspects and letterbomb case Paul Rosenberg who is a Harvard Medical School professor and physician at children's hospital in Boston had received a package containing two pipe bombs failed to explode when they failed to explode because this is when the Yuna bomber was active and people are being told, basically, if you get suspicious packages, either don't open or open them in not the usual way, open them. I mean, you get a package just peel paper off and open it up so L thinking it triggers. The the thing the package triggers the bombs they were able to go off. They would yell out so Rosenberg panic carefully being aware of the Yuna bomber had slipped open the sides g ended it that way. So he was just a lucky guy. Oh shit. Yeah. I had. I just thought they were faulty bombs. I didn't realize that. So that is attempted murder was. Yeah, we'll Rosenberg had been AB supervisor at the children's hospital in neurobiology lab. Amy hit big concerned about receiving a negative evaluation from him. She resigned from her position at the hospital because Rosenberg felt that she could not meet the standards required for the work. According to documents based on witness interviews, she was upset and on the verge of a nervous breakdown because of this. So it's something that she could do it was a big deal to her. Now prior to the attempted bombing. Jim reportedly had told a witness that he wanted to shoot stab or strangle Rosenberg he denied that he'd ever threatened him though, the investigation focused on Amy, and Jim, but it closed without charges being filed due to a lack of evidence during the investigation they both refuse to. Cooperate with investigators refused to open their door for searches of their home and refused to take polygraph tests. Now, I don't know why they didn't have a warrant to search their home. They must not have had enough evidence. No, they didn't. They did have a lot of circumstantial evidence that would link the bishops to the letter bun, but they apparently didn't have enough to get a warrant charging. I really can't blame anyone for not allowing someone to search your home or take a polygraph test where you're innocent or guilty. You're just opening yourself up to something. But it was apparently looked on very suspiciously that they wouldn't allow that. Sure. I would think that they would at least have cooperated more with investigators if they were innocent. Well, let's tell you would look at it. Yeah. But we're we're separated from that sheriff we weren't in the middle of it. Now, the chief federal prosecutor in Boston did review the case after the Alabama shooting, but decide. That Amy would not be charged in the bombing attempt. And this case remains unsolved. Technically US, Dr Rosenberg he will tell you his suspicions. Oh, absolutely. When we take a short break here. So we can talk about our sponsors. 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I really appreciate is that I can turn on the outdoor lights from wherever I am to make the house look occupied were away, and it's all controlled from my ADT app or from the sound of our voices again with AT twenty four seven protection also AT does the installation and the configuration of your system. So no worries there either. So AD key ADT can set up your home with multiple smart home devices in security features like indoor and outdoor cameras lacks lights garage door control even video doorbells. Visit ADT dot com slash smart to learn more about how ADT can design and install secure smart home, just for you. That's ADT dot com slash smart. Let's head to two thousand one Amy had a baby boy and she named him. Seth most of her colleagues weren't aware of the significance of that name one friend would recall that she knew her when she was pregnant, but nothing was ever mentioned about Seth. She said imagine having a whole conversation about baby names. Meanwhile, Amy was sidestepping the fact that she was going to name her baby. After her brother who she had killed Amy sunset was born on. What would have been her brother's thirty third birthday as well. So that's kind of odd strange coincidence creepy yard. She couldn't have planned that way. I don't think it was a scheduled C-section choose. So any also fancied herself, novelist. Did you know that any she was in a writer scrape though, she'd wrote ended up writing three novels none of which were ever published. Amy, the book's protagonists were Greek heritage dreamt of careers in science and are haunted by the death of child. They Wentz knew. For several of characters procreation offered symbolic redemption. Well, yeah. And that would be said about her having four children it was kind of like creating life because she'd taken life wrote plus she had three daughters on the really wanted to son. So she got pregnant again trying to replace her brother almost it's odd. Yeah. It was a Saturday morning in two thousand two when Amy Jim in their kids went for breakfast at a crowded, I have restaurant in Peabody Massachussetts when they requested a booster seat for Seth a waitress told them that the last one had just been given to another family, and this is when Amy became very angry and kind of went into a rage. She went to the table of the other family, which was just a woman in her kids, and she shrieked I am Dr Amy Bishop over and over a manager asked Amy to leave the restaurant and she did. But this was only after she went back to the woman with the booster seat and hit on the head pretty hard Amy was arrested. But again, the charges were dropped. That's that's an interesting episode. This gives you some look into her persona. Well, when people would say, she was under a lot of stress, but nobody does. The kept saying that. Yeah. I know she got her doctorate and ended up doing a fair amount of postdoctoral studies before she got hired by the university of Alabama. So I I would imagine a lot of pressure. Once he finished you degree. You wanna get hired by a university. If you're pursuing that track and get tenure track. So you can have a less stressful life. He well, it significant that Amy was pretty much the sole breadwinner in this family Jim had never gone on for his advanced degree any worked only sporadically often in laboratory jobs that he got with Amy's help. In one of her novels eastern, Boston. The protagonist Elizabeth is married to Jack a computer programmer who can't hold a job and ends up working at a radio shack. She describes him in the book as ambition challenge in flaccid bed. Loving loser. Amy once told one of her Alabama colleagues that her husband Jim was just too smart to work. Now, I'm thinking that probably had kind of a circus -tic tilt to it. I'm not sure I think this kind of Oto by a graphical. Oh, well that for sure. But I mean, her comment on him being too smart to work sounds like it probably had some sarcasm to. Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean that adds to pressure. She the breadwinner, she has four little kids and a husband that maybe wasn't allowed to help around the house either. Some men are like that. I know you're not. But there are men like that probably wasn't now she finally did get hired at the university of Alabama in Huntsville in two thousand three this is ten years after she received to a while. It's quite some time. So she accepted a tenure track position T E N URI if Sunday like ten year tenure, okay? Ten years important means lifetime job security. If you get tenured, you're in you're hired for life. Basically, kinda do whatever you want. If you have gaining Glenn sabbaticals. It can teach what you want. Yeah. And of a strange thing because they don't have that in other professions note. So the residents of the street where they lived finally remember the day, the family left, they were happy because while the kids weren't bed Amy was universally disliked. And I mean universal. I couldn't find any reference to anybody in that neighborhood that liked now she was difficult to get along with in that neighborhood. So there you hall pulled away the neighbors came out of their houses and be candid cheer. And one of the kids yelled out ding Dong, the which is dead. And then everybody started singing the song from the wizard of us and one family suggested that they have a pizza party to celebrate the bishop's departure. So it's funny. But it's also sad especially for Amy's kits. Hopefully hear it all now. But the overall feeling about her mom had to be known to the older kids at least. Oh, yeah. So the university of Alabama Huntsville college administrators were really excited to have a scientist with a Harvard degree. So they were so excited. In fact, they never bothered to verify the information on her CV a lot of that. Yeah. A lot of it was inaccurate accurate. That's a nice way. Putting she lied. She claimed that she had worked in a lab run by researcher Bruce temple for three years should actually only been there for a year. She also exaggerated her exp. -perience of Beth Israel Deaconess hospital where she had feuded with Dr Hugo Gonzales Suratis fellowship there lasted less than a year and was not renewed. And she claimed on her resume that she worked there from two thousand to two thousand three technically that's true but misleading she didn't list the professors that you'd worked with on her resume is context either. So well, all the references. She gave were people other than those. She had worked with or for always read flack. But why didn't they pick that up? Why didn't they ask her for peer references? They were just kind of bamboozled by the Harvard degree you. Now, they were kind of Austria reminds me of Palo much Arini. It does you're looking at the celebrity value. Right. Exactly to have faculty member who's a Harvard. PHD? Exactly. I don't know if they got a lot of them there. They were becoming more and more vestige. Down there. But they weren't the same as the places in Boston. No, they weren't. For someone who wanted tenure so badly. Amy didn't focus enough on publishing, and that's the old maxim publisher parish, right? You got to crank out the works jail. Even as an undergrad. Now. I was surprised to see you need to get published. Yeah. I'm looking at this stuff with our kids going through college and thinking I'm glad I've already done that. Now, it's a lot of pressure you're up. Now, she did publish an annual article in two thousand four two thousand five in two thousand six but then she went unpublished for three years. This was a serious problem because there was no explanation for this. And it was going to be used against her. And she had to know that she was very familiar with academia now, Amy complained. That publishing was a cookie cutter approach to science. But of course, her bosses did not share that opinion at all on whether you agree with that or not I mean. Doesn't change the fact that you need to publish exactly. So in two thousand nine she began to write again after three years of not. And I think during those three years she and her husband were involved in patenting, a Petri dish something. Yeah. Something showed some promise. But some of the things they did were just kind of wacky. Correct. But she did get a two hundred thousand dollar grant from the NIH national institutes of health and this led to a paper being published in the period view journal of neuro chemistry that journal would publish another Amy Bishop of paper the same year these two high quality papers the third paper. She wrote in two thousand nine should have raised some concerns. The title of the paper was affects selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors on motor neurons survival. Now, the paper listed as authors. Anderson LB Anderson, PB and. Jason TB Bishop bay Anderson Jay, and it was printed in the international journal of general medicine now, this is a journal this basically vanity press, it's not a peer review journal. But apparently, no one at the school. It was I'd that the paper was written by four people named Anderson. And if they had checked they would've figured out that the four authors initials match the name of Amy's husband three daughters. So paper listed, James Anderson. And the kids employs of Cherokee lab systems in Huntsville, which was her husband's company never really got off the ground. It didn't most professors in any bishops position published far more research papers and in peer review journals. That's just expected. Absolutely. So falling behind and becoming very desperate to improve chances tenure. She tried to pass off research conducted in her home with her family. This is cheating. There's no other word for it. And by then Amy was lobbying fulltime for tenure. She had begun the process of submitting the university's prepared application package. Detailing her teaching research publishing institutional even community accomplishments. So at the university of Alabama Huntsville whence he worked for five years in the associate professor program. There is a five step process toward achieving tenure it began with a departmental review. And then it was turned over to a college level tenure committee review from there went to a university review board and finally the provost. So if a tenure track professor was not granted tenure after six years the university's gonna let the professor go job. You lose your job. A month before the tenure list was made public Amy wrote a press release about a science experiment conducted her family's backyard, and this was picked up by university student newspaper running under the headline, you AH launches space experiment. So this is self promotion, and it really failed kind of backfired actually did. In April two thousand nine she learned that her tenure head been denied. And she was livid. She was not going to take no for an answer. So she filed an appeal and a complaint then she began to beg her colleagues at the university for help. Dr. Deborah Moriarty dean of the graduate school thought. Amy was her friend that friendship, though, became very strained when Amy began to push her to help her lobby to reverse the tenure decision. It was the same story with another psychology professor who had joined you AH with Amy in two thousand three his name was Eric seaman. He would recall how ABC with rage when he ran into her on the last day of the spring semester. The tenure listed been released. His name was on the list. But Amy bishop's was not. She went into kind of tirades reading these people are against me. She sounded very paranoid and not completely. Well. She told another faculty member in her department that she was better than him. It was very easy to provoke her into get her going and some of her colleagues liked to share crazy Amy stories over drinks after work and most of the classes, she taught her students didn't like her most of them. There were some that did resume that the, but the overwhelming consensus was that she was a poor teacher. Yes. Very impatient. One day in early two thousand ten Amy drove to the university in parked in front of the administration building sitting in her car. She called the office of the president and announced her plan to come upstairs to discuss her case for tenure. She was told that president Williams wouldn't meet with her and that she should not even enter the building. According to an F it written by Amy in prison. She then saw Williams and the provost hurriedly leaving the building with a police escort, Amy telephoned, her colleague, Deborah Moriarty and said they act like I'm going to walk in and shoot somebody. Well, let's hear it would seem to me if that's true, the president provost needed a police escort to get them out of the building that Amy shouldn't have been there. She should have been right away. Scored it off campus in through that worried about safety. Yeah. It's true. I mean, I don't know. It's a difficult spot because. You also might be afraid that the more you tell her to stay away the more you do like that. You might provoke are more maker more angry in how secure is a college campus or how secure was it at the time. More importantly that. If you tell her she's not allowed there is that really going to do anything. I think if you simply tell her she's not allowed and she should leave. It's going to be sufficient, but it just seems if they're that worried about their own safety that should have communicated that to the rest of the campus in taking steps to make sure that Amy couldn't cause any harm. I totally agree. But I don't know if it would have been that easy to prevent her anyway, but I do agree with what you're saying. So on Friday February twelfth two thousand ten Hemi bishops first class began at ten twenty in the morning. This was anatomy and physiology. Her students didn't notice anything stranger than usual about their professor other than she seemed a little more distant and distracted at that time that our next class was introduction neuroscience that began at eleven thirty. This was your favorite class and the students in that class that she taught lighter enough to send a petition signed by all of them to try and save her job. So she could effectively teach. I'm just thinking why did the students even know did she make a she must have made a plea to them to help her is that appropriate. I don't know. I'm not in that type of field. Amy seem distracted and she was described as having a strange look on her face. And she announced that she would end class early. But she didn't ran his full length ammos wonder, if she liked teaching the beginners better because we're talking about introduction to neuroscience. Maybe they kind of treated her with the respect that she thought she deserved more than the older students would or the more experienced Deutz possibility because I think she liked to be looked upon his better than everyone else. She thought she was. Yeah. She attended a biology department faculty meeting that afternoon, which was held on the third floor of the Shelby center for science and technology, which houses the UA Huntsville biology and mathematics departments. She sat quietly at the meeting for thirty or forty minutes before she pulled out a nine millimeter handgun just before four PM. And that's according to a faculty. Member Joseph ING, an associate professor who witnessed the shooting said she got up suddenly took out a gun and started shooting at each one of us. She started with the woman closest to her then went right down the row shooting each of targets in the head white methodical, according to Deborah Moriarty who attended the meeting and survived. This wasn't a random shooting around the room. This was execution style. Those who were shot were on one side of the oval table that was used during the meeting and the five people on the other side, including ING immediately dropped to the floor after Amy had fired several rounds Moriarty said that Amy pointed the gun at her and pulled the trigger. But there was only a click so her gun either jammed or ran out of munition Deborah described Amy as initially appearing angry and then following the apparent weapon. Malfunction? She looked perplexed. Ing said Deborah than. Tempted to stop Amy by approaching her and asking her to stop, and then helped the other survivors push Amy out of the room, and then they blocked the door. But if she still had bullets she probably could have shut them through the door. I don't know what the door was made of fear. Maybe she wasn't thinking about that. But this Deborah was quite brave. A lot of field called her a hero. She she grabbed it Amy and try to get her out of there, realizing that the gun could go off anytime she did in Amy would have killed her. She would have so the murder weapon that was used was a nine millimeter handgun, and it was founded a bathroom on the second floor of the building. So Amy didn't have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. And she was arrested a few minutes later outside of the building shortly after her arrest. She was quoted as saying it didn't happen. There's no way when asked about the deaths of recolonize she said, there's no way they're still alive. So what do you think do you? Do you think that that is acting? So she can use an insanity defense later think she's using that. But there could be a possibility. I mean, she's just been through a pretty traumatic event. And maybe she has temporary 'em nesia temporary. I mean, it was definitely planned your she didn't just have that gun in her purse for no reason. No, she didn't. So let's talk a little bit about her victims three were killed. The murder victims were Gopi Padilla Adrienne Johnson and Maria Ragland Davis Padilla left a teaching job at Michigan tech university in two thousand and became the chairman of the biology department at the university of Alabama in Huntsville now, he had actually voted to give Amy Bishop for tenure. So he was one of the good guys. If you look at it for maybe point of you. Yeah. And I think that her lawyers tried to suggest that she wasn't angry over ten year. And that wasn't why she was doing the killings because why would she have shut someone who voted for her? If you using insanity defense. Right, right. So Padilla left behind a wife and two daughters. Atrial Johnson was an associate biology professor working in cell biology in nutritional physiology research, but for years, Dr Johnson also gave his time to teach the boy scouts. He had two sons and he volunteered with their troupe. He actually won several awards for his work with young people an associate in the biology department wrote in his obituary, the doctor Johnson was always upbeat. And he was someone who always went out of his way to make you feel. Welcome maria. Raglan Davis was an associate biology professor who had a lot of new ideas and she had secured grants for her research. Dr raglan Davis was described as one of the university's most promising faculty members she left behind a husband and three children. So these people that she killed. We're good people who are contributing positively to society, just regular people. Yeah. Maybe a little more productive more productive than I am. I'd say. Achievers they're achievers. They were achievers. There were I think when she was shooting. She was just going to walk down one side of the table backup. The other side. Point that way. Yeah. I think it was very planned out your so it wasn't that those were specifically fingered by her just happened in her mind. This was how she's gonna do the shooting, and they were the ones that were right there in the way. I would argue she was probably angry with everyone because they weren't working as hard as she would want to save her and get her tenure in helper think so so emergency workers raised into the conference room, and it was just covered with blood. Deborah Maury already was crying. She described how meticulously Amy was shooting. Everyone mentioned the look on Amy's face issues shooting. How her face was fixed with rage? And she seemed to know how to handle the gun very well. And she certainly knew enough to hide it. That's another thing. That would go against insanity is she went and hid that gun and took off her bloody jacket. Right, right. So police soon learned that after the massacre she'd run down a flight of stairs into. Second-floor ladies bathroom and in the bathroom. She stashed the gun in a trash can under the blood-soaked plaid jacket that should warn class that day, then she crumpled paper towels threw them on top. And then she calmly walked into a classroom and asked to borrow someone cell phone, and that makes it seem very ah those Nolde cold indeed. So Shaun Tait one of the students gave her his phone. They hadn't heard the gunshots above them. They may call. Their husband said, I'm done pick me up. So it's four o'clock little after police radios continued to broadcast bolo beyond the lookout for female shooter, Dr Amy Bishop campus police racing around the campus and gave orders to student and faculty there at least seventy five hundred people on campus, and they didn't want any of them to confront the gun woman. Who is at large. The names of the wounded were not immediately released to the public, but students would learn that Dr Joseph Lahey, professor of micro-biology was actually in critical condition. So was Stephanie monta Chiel, though, a staff assistant described as the department den mother who nurtured both staff and students Dr Luis Cruz Veira survived a gunshot wound to his chest. But he was conscious and coherent, and he was described as being very angry. Just got shot. Yeah. But anger is always your first reactor colleague. Yeah. True. So police interviewed Amy's husband Jim after had been determined that she had called him, and he denied any knowledge of a plan to shoot a co workers, and he wasn't charged with the crime. But a neighbor revealed later that he had seen the couple leaving their home with duffel bags on the Friday morning prior to the shooting. Amy borrowed the gun. She used in the shooting and Jim admitted that he had taken her do an indoor shooting range prior to the killings. So what's that all about chef I trust that guy? I don't if he was part of this bombing plot. I am convinced you as part of that bombing play. He was with her all the time. And he knew what she was thinking and feeling that she was very verbal about our feelings. So I kind of feel like he got away with something here I do too shortly after Amy's arrest people at the university's biology department expressed concern to police that she had booby-trapped the science building with a herpes bomb intended to spread the virus. She had previously worked with the herpes virus while completing her postdoctoral studies and one of the novel. She wrote described the spread of a virus similar to herpes throughout the world causing pregnant women to miscarry, but the police had already searched. That building and all they found was the handgun and her bloody jacket. But I just wonder she must have said some things about it for people to wonder about that would think. So police obtained a ward within hours of the shooting they seized Amy bishop's, computer at work. They searched the family home. As Jim Anderson set wondering why he was being detained daughter lily who is eighteen and a student there took her siblings to a neighbor's house. It's awfully sad for the children as well. To to me. That's the saddest part. I don't know. The saddest part to me are the people who were killed. But either way it's both very set situations for everybody in the weeks after the Alabama shootings. Several former colleagues and neighbors came forward and described various altercations with Amy mostly over very trivial matters. Jimmy Anderson senior Amy's father in law told a reporter that he had seen the devil in her eyes. So I don't know how that relationship was it doesn't sound great. Will they didn't start off? Great. No, that's true. Investigators in the media soon learned about Amy's history of violence, cold cases, are difficult and the shooting of Seth was especially difficult because it hadn't been treated as a crime when it happened. Neither the Braintree police nor the state police had really done an investigation. None of the physical evidence said even been taken there were a few crime scene photographs but the Bishop house. Had not been treated as a crime scene. Also, the integrity of the scene had been compromised by the neighbors who win over and cleaned up the blood, then there was another problem by two thousand ten the statute of limitations had expired, and any of the crimes that Amy might have been charged with for confronting the people at the Ford dealership in the police with a gun. So the only crime that had no statute of limitations was murder, of course. But prosecutors would have to prove that she intentionally killed her brother with really no physical evidence has been gathered in one of the pictures taken in her bedroom. There was a copy of National Enquirer that was seen on the floor and someone in the DA's office ordered that issue from the library of congress and investigators sauve that a lot of it was devoted to the murder of the parents of Patrick Duffy who was an actor on the TV show. Dallas too young assailants had killed his parents in a Montana bar that they. Owned and they'd used a shotgun and fled the scene using the same gun to try and steal a getaway car. So investigators wondered if Amy had maybe read that article and kind of seen it as a how to guide. William Keating who was the DA at the time suggested that the photograph could be used to prove her intent to kill Seth. That's kind of a long shot too. Sure. Russa in on the one hand, you can look at that and say well that kind of inspired her. Who knows that could be totally coincidental. Your. In April two thousand ten investigators opened an inquest into Seth staff. Twenty witnesses appeared in court in Quincy, Massachusetts, Tom Pettigrew. One of the mechanics who'd seen Amy the Dinger Ford dealership described her as holding the shotgun and telling him to hold his hands up north of Sola mini recalled how stranger was to hear Judy Bishop as for chief polio by his first name. He said I'd never heard anyone call him. John Kenneth Brady who is a sergeant in the station that day testified that he to it her Judy S for the chief James Sullivan, the Lieutenant who questioned Amy so that he had actually written the words murder and assault with a dangerous weapon on the charging sheet. But because the offices related instructed to release Amy she has never charged with crimes, well, according to Sullivan his interrogation of Amy came to an abrupt halt when Judy Bishop entered. At room. One of the captains duty told him that Judy had spoken to chief polio. And explain that the shooting had been an exit and polio decided he believed her in that was good enough for him Sullivan remembered complaining to the captain if we let every person go because their mother didn't think they committed a crime. There's no point in arresting anyone true. That's true. But he was told that polio had ordered the release and that he had to obey that order. And then Sam Bishop took the stand and he denied that the spat he'd had with Amy had been serious the rubber their home in the summer of nineteen eighty five had been very traumatic for him. He and that was why she took out the gun in loaded. But if there were real interogations done they would have had to say what this fight was about. And kind of get into the details and get to what's going on in this family. Sure. But that was never really done and Judy denied having any sort of relationship with chief John polio. She denied that she has for him at the station and polio in his wife. Ginny testified that they too said that Judy and the chief had not been close. Why think Ginny would be the last one to know if no kidding? They've been close. Right. When they say the wife's last who's just one little tidbit. Ginny was his secretary at the police station. Right. And he dumped his wife and Mary Ginny. So he's kinda got a pattern of womanizing. I think so. After the inquest the case was referred to a grand jury, and in June two thousand ten Amy was indicted for the first degree murder of her brother Sammon, Judy released a statement, we cannot explain or even understand what happened in Alabama. They wrote. However, we know that what happened twenty three years ago to our sunset was an accident. And to me, this is just kind of a matter of convincing themselves because to believe otherwise they couldn't live with that. You're right. It's just a way to cope. But the fact that everyone else went along with it is the shocking part? I almost can't blame the parents. But it can certainly blame the police chief here it's easy in hindsight to say this. But that case was never investigated the way it should have been. I would think any accidental shooting would be less to get it to make sure it's accidental. I mean, that's common sense. I would think seems to me and this isn't a super longtime ago, it's the eighties there. Yeah. So it's not like, it's the eighteen hundreds. And we're gonna populous place it's not like there's small town of two thousand people or something like that. This is big time. Suburb busted, don't see why it wasn't investigated did after the shooting in Alabama. Right. So two days after the Massachusetts indictment was announced. Amy pop the blade out of the safety razor and slashed her wrists in jail cell. Now, she lapsed but survived only because a prison guard discovered her before she bled to death. Now there were some rumors maybe more than rumors about her attempting suicide when she was younger as well. But the parents denying it and not getting her any therapy. I think her father actually admitted that she tried to hurt herself. But then Judy chimed in and said that was an accident. So judy's good at denial. ABC attorney spent eighteen months preparing insanity defense for her and she had asked for the death penalty. The alternative would probably be life without parole in Amy told a friend that she didn't want to spend the rest of her life in a tiny little bucks. But then salmon Judy persuaded Amy that even if she wanted to be executed it could be decades before her execution would be carried out. So she entered a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity and the defense hired a series of very prominent psychiatrist to evaluate Amy. But this is never an easy case to make juries in. Alabama. Specially have shown a dislike for the insanity defense. Just ella. Bama. Think. Most juries don't really go for the insanity defense. Cher. But it was noteworthy that Alabama had showed that in several cases. Yeah. Amy was being treated with anti psychotic medication called hell doll. And she believes that she has paranoid. Schizophrenia. But there was never a definitive diagnosis arrived at this spite the psychiatrists evaluated. So it's going to be difficult to convince a jury or judge that Amy had delusions she had for the most part lived, a pretty well adjusted life had a PHD rates for kids toy to university level, which really probably wouldn't be possible. If you had a serious on treated, mental illness. I think not now her trial was scheduled for September twenty fourth two thousand twelve two weeks before her attorney went to the prosecution asking for the possibility of deal, so Amy was going to be willing to plead guilty to capital murder and exchange for an agreement by prosecutors that they would not seek the death penalty. Psychiatric tests proven inconclusive in defense had no satisfying evidence that Bishop was insane. So the prosecutors agreed to the deal when it was time for her to plead guilty courtroom was full of onlookers. But Aimet Astor family not to come. So she she's lead in everyone's craning their next to catch a glimpse of her. She'll were red jumpsuit and flip flops with white socks on L out of the picture. She's wearing a bulletproof vest as well. At least when she's outdoors, right? She had lost weight and her eyes look sunken. But she seemed to hold her head high trying to maintain a slate era of superiority over the spectators. Yes, I think that part of her has never left her when a defendant pleads guilty in a capital murder case in Alabama. The state is required to present a summary of its evidence in court. So is photos of her murdered colleagues were put up on a projector Amy covered her head with their arms on the table top. The next concern was whether Amy would go to trial for the murder of. Breath in Massachusetts. But trying her for first degree murder would require the prosecution to present a case for a crime that happened more than twenty years earlier and some of the people who would need to testify were now elderly with poor memories. Many people were dead. Most of the physical evidence was missing never collected including the murder weapon had been returned to the family. Plus, the only eyewitness to the killing was Amy's mother. And you really can't believe her. No, simply put also there's the issue of motive there were some people that said there was a long standing rivalry between Amy and her brother, but no one who knew the two siblings would testify that. There was a problem between them. It had been suggested that the spat on the morning of December six had been between Amiens Seth not Amy and her dad, but all the other evidence was that it had been between Amy and her dad after Amy's guilty plea, the DA's office released a statement. Announcing that it would not seek her extradition because Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, and because Amy is already serving life without parole in Alabama. So her punishment overall wouldn't change so kind of be a wasted effort and expense. But any let it be known through her public defender that she actually wanted to be tried in Massachusetts for Seth death. She had always insisted the shooting was accidental and she resented the implication of the withdrawn indictment. So she wanted to have a trial to help demonstrate that she is innocent. So was there a cover up for Amy intentionally killing her brother in nineteen eighty six Judy Bishop is adamant that the shooting was an accident, of course. But the circumstantial evidence to me supports an intentional shooting. There's also the passability that Amy meant to shoot her father Sam over that argument. They had earlier that day. In one of the big things is judy's timeline. It's very questionable to me. I believe she was home at eleven or twelve not after two pm is she claimed I also believe that she heard the shotgun blasts that came from Amy's room. I think it would be hard to miss it. If she was home the state trooper Ryan, how the state trooper interviewed the bishops after death said that Amy told him that when she came downstairs with shotgun. She had the impression that her mother had been home for awhile. And in the same set of interviews Sam Bishop told how in the to offer says with him that he had expected Judy home between eleven and twelve in her statement Judy said, she had returned to the residents to see if this anything for lunch. Seth was home. When she got there. Judy told how and stated that he would go to the store to pick up some foods. So that we could all have lunch. That contradicts. What she said about arriving home in Seth pulled in right behind her a little after two. So they kind of arrived at the same time. So quite into this account, which was delivered not that long after the shooting. She came home not after Seth returned from the grocery store, but before he'd left, so there's a good reason that salmon Judy Bishop would lie about this time line because in their story, the whole reason Amy took out the shotgun in the first place is because she'd been home alone for several hours, and she was afraid and decided to learn how to shoot the gun on the spur of the moment. Another thing. Amy claim that the shotgun was on her bed when it went off in her bedroom. Her mother Judy said that the shotgun accidents went off when Amy turned in bumped into her brother in their small kitchen. Now, I looked it up according to concealed carry dot com. Assuming normally functioning firearm if the trigger does not move the gun does not fire guns that are just sitting there and not acted on by serious external forces do not go off by themselves. The reasons for this involved how ammunition works. As well as the firearm. So I don't know thing about guns. This is very basic to me where you would think that guns. Just don't fire randomly. I would hope not you have to have pressure on the trigger. Yes. To varying degrees. Some triggers don't require much at all the so-called hair-trigger and others require fair amount of force. I think I read five pounds force. That's what the said about this particular brand of shotgun, which seems fairly significant there. Yeah. So after pleading guilty in September two thousand twelve and waving her right to appeal. She did actually file an appeal in February two thousand thirteen so the appeal stated that she had not been informed of rights. She would be waiving by pleading guilty, and she was not correctly informed. The minimum range of punishment and the circuit court failed to explain that. She could withdraw her plea now later that year, the court of criminal appeals of Alabama rejected that appeal they stated that Bishop failed to challenge the validity of guilty pleas in the circuit court and did not file either emotion to withdraw her please or emotion for a new trial, the families of the shooting victims claim that Amy had amassed documented record of mental instability at the school that officials should have acted on in order to prevent these shootings the lawsuits referred to a life safety policy which mandates that staff. Members experiencing emotional, mental or psychological instability, be referred to police who will in turn work with counselling professionals in order to protect the lives and safety of persons on campus. You're talking about that. Yeah. You touched upon that. You're the university provost was aware that Bishop fell into that category. The lawsuits alleged especially after she was denied tenure in two thousand nine and that's when she began exhibiting threatening behaviour towards several colleagues. The last suits claim that students in colleagues reported several instances of Amy's unsettling behavior among them, a student petition seeking to have her removed ended teen who said he actively avoided her after the tenure decision because she was harassing and hounding him. The reports were brought to the provost. But he failed to act on them. The families claimed the lawsuit also alleged that had the university followed these regulations it would have discovered that she had been investigated in the nineteen eighty six shooting of her brother as well as the nineteen ninety three attempted bombing of a colleague at Harvard University. Wrongful death lawsuits were later dismissed by the Alabama supreme court. So nothing there. So there are several sources to learn more about this case. Top of my list would be February two thousand thirteen New Yorker article titled a loaded gun written by Patrick Raden Keefe. There's also a pretty good book. Call the professors rage written by Michelle McPhee, and there are a series of articles in the New York Times as well. As in the local Huntsville papers. Today's episode is sponsored by ADT ADT can design and install a smart home. Just for you back by twenty four seven protection and controlled from the ADT app or the sound of your voice, use your ADT app to monitor your cameras or video doorbell, and you can check on your home from virtually anywhere. Visit ADT dot com slash smart. To learn more about how ADT can design and install secure smart home. Just for you. The music for true crime brewery is written and produced by tristen Capelle. If you want more TC being your life, go to our website, high grabber dot com where you can join team tigr ever and get access to our members only episodes along with this exclusive access to our large bake of members only episodes you'll receive a gift from us. You can also go to patriotic and become a patron of true crime brewery to get the same benefits, we recently covered the murders at White House farm. Some other members only episodes include the missing grime sisters player. A harris. The crimes of Philip Markelle the murder of Jill Kelley hill. And what we have coming up this month in just a few days. Actually is our episode on pro football player Ray Caruth who was convicted of hiring someone to kill his pregnant girlfriend to avoid paying child support. Some other ways for you to show your support for true crime brewery are following a son Twitter on Instagram and unfished book. You can also join our true crime brewery fan discussions group on Facebook, too and get into some conversations about pass cases or any crime topic. If you enjoy the show, we would really appreciate it. If you could take a couple of minutes to give us a review on itunes or wherever you listen to us. That's very helpful in getting new listeners to listen to the podcast. I'm for feedback. Okay. I got three voicemails. Okay. But before you do. That I just like to say one little thing grew ahead. Remember, you can send your feedback in case suggestions to us in an Email to true crime brewery at Tigra dot com or tell us in your own voice by leaving us a voicemail on the leave of voice mail link on the right side of our websites front page. You can't miss it care. So the first voicemail is from Tusha, and she has a comment on the Santa Claus murders. Okay. Hi, Jilin, dick. This is not ska from Georgia. I am a huge fan of the podcast and have been for a little bit. Every little every year at this slate and just wanted to call and thank you for your most recent episode, the Santa Claus murders. I live in Georgia in actually child and family therapist and work with a lot of kids that are in defects in state custody in the foster care system and just was really thankful for your sensitivity in issue in. Just talking about problems that happen in the foster care system near this was the first episode where you've talked about kids in the state system in what that looks like. And I think the more you do cases like this. You just bring light in awareness to the fact that it needs to be just more than just a state system. We need to be looking out for each other. We need to be looking out for each other's kids. There's just a lot a lot of kids fall through the cracks. And it's important for us to be others keepers in that way. And to take care take care of one another. So thank you so much for the show huge huge fan and people say this all the time, but I'm a huge fan of y'all's relationship. I I wish we knew each other. I wish I knew you guys in real life and can hang out at the quiet end with you. All right. Hope you guys have a great new year and look forward to the next podcast by. Chose this. When not because it was praising us because I like how could push wanted to people to be more aware of the difficulties a kids in social services can have absolutely and people that work in that field just deserve a lot of praise Fisher. Do the other thing I'd say to to Scott is that I don't have your Email. So if you could send us your address and shirt size. We'll get a t shirt off to you. Thanks. Thanks for listening. Thanks for your voicemail. Thank you for the compliments, and especially for your comments on the social services than what we really need to do and look out for kids. But we will definitely cover more cases. Like that. They are some of the most heartbreaking. But I think it is important to bring that out as much as possible for people to talk about make it part of a conversation that we're having. Absolutely, okay. What do you have next case suggestion from? Rachel. Hi dicken. Jill my name is Rachel I'm from Santa Rosa, California. I wanted to say that I love your podcast and your interactions. You're very real and bring life to his story. And a lot of empathy that I feel missing from a lot of crime podcast. I do have a case suggestion. It would be the Polly Klaas murder a happened in northern California in Petaluma. It's something that's very near and dear to my heart because it happened to classmate of my cousins, if people are unfamiliar with it. She was kidnapped during a slumber party. I'm in later, unfortunately, found murdered and it's a fascinating case and their parents also put together the Polly Klaas foundation. And it's something that feel it has been loss. Over time. And I know that. Kids cases are bit sensitive. But one that I think is worth looking into and doing take kind of bring it back to the memory of how we really had childhoods where kids could play around in neighborhoods and Heflebower's and now in this day and age parents have have an eagle eye out on their kids in. It's not the same world that it used to be. So I think there's a lot of content and a lot to process for how it's affected the world around us anyways. Thank you, keep up the good work. And I hope you are having a wonderful holiday. Thank you, Rachel voicemail. And when we started looking this up amazing to me, this is a twenty five year old case, it seems newer. And I think that's maybe because of the work the classes have done. Well, they absolutely have done a good job keeping palace name out there. Air and Epping the whole 'cause out there for everybody. It actually happened Tober. I nineteen ninety three Polly was eleven and she had a couple of friends over for a sleepover. At her mom's house around ten thirty. She opened her bedroom door to go get some sleeping bags and saw a man with the knife. He tied up the girls and told police friends to count two thousand and then left with poly for the next two months about four thousand people helped search for her TV shows like twenty twenty and America's most wanted covered the kidnapping, but at the time Davis was a wanted man. The California Highway Patrol had issued an all points bulletin for violation of parole for previous crime in any police officer encountering him was supposed to arrest him on that charge during the search police officers found him in a nearby rural area where his Ford Pinto was stuck in the mud, but unaware of the the local police let him go without calling his driver's license in. To their dispatcher which would have resulted in his arrest. So it's believed that he drove to an isolated spot where he killed Polly. And buried her in a shallow grave the end of November. Police arrested him for a violation of parole during routine patrol and the arresting officer recognized him from police sketches as palm print had been found in the class bedroom. He was charged with the crime and four days later, he led police to her body. He said that he strangled her with a piece of cloth. And even though there was no method to validate the statement. It was consistent with the evidence. So Richard Alan Davis was convicted of police murder in nineteen ninety six and sentenced to death. The thing. I remember is his formal sentencing where he read a statement claiming that Palley had said to him just don't do me. Like my dad just before he killed her implying that her father was a child molester. So of course, this is a horrible cruel thing that he said and Mark class reacted by shock. Outing burn in hell Davis. Fuck you. Then he lunged at the defendant. But he was restrained. Polly's father Marc became a child advocate as you said an established class kids foundation, and he's made himself available to parents of kidnapped children for years been on TV frequently he's been on Larry King Live CNN headline news and our favorite Nancy grace. Yeah. Well, he has been out there. It's been really working to keep both her name in the public's mind and to help parents and families of other kids going missing. So it's a case that is probably well worth covering. I think so and it's a pretty famous case, but it'd be worthwhile. Doing it. Particularly that discussion. I I wasn't aware that there was an AP out on the local rural police department wasn't aware of it sounds kind of strange if you haven't all points bulletin that all points. Don't get it. You know? So I I think that'd be worth while. Doing think. So it's also I think it was a significant case in developing the three structure out law. Yeah, he had been arrested several times before okay fair. One more voicemail from Melissa. And these are a couple of questions for us. Okay. Hi. This is Melissa from New Jersey longtime PTI supporter look to every Tuesday to hear you guys talk about to crime love the report, you have each other seems like you have a great relationship. I am calling the last day of December beside him hoping to proudly wear one of your t shirts at a question for Jill and question for dick. My question for jail is as wondering why you guys changed the theme music. I really loved your old theme song. And since I heard it just made me really happy. Your new one is good too. But I kind of missed the old one wondering you could sometime sees that may be used one of the intro and one at the end of the podcast or may be used one of them in betw-. Between the two crime story, and the, you know, the listener voicemail and and letters. So let's hear about that. Maybe could play that for me today. And my question for dick is about beer. My father-in-law makes fun of me for drinking fruit flavored beer, and I wonder what your opinion is on beers such as Sam Adams cherry wheat ale line, kogo, great prudan de things like that. My father-in-law doesn't consider the real beer want to know what you think keep up the great work. Love the podcast happy new year. Bye. Thanks, Melissa answer. Her question. First news. Music. Yes. Well, the music that we used in the beginning was free on copyrighted music that I got an YouTube. So it doesn't really belong to us, although it's copyright free. So I wanted to have some original music written for us, which are nephew tristen did. And that's our new music, and which I love our new music, but I do kind of miss the original music. It has that nostalgic. Feel also, but I do think it's important to use rigid music made for us. So I don't know ever use the other music sorry. This was written specifically for us. Yes. Yes. So and the other music is great. But it wasn't written for us. Maybe I could play it on some members only episodes since she's a member. Great. Yeah. And then in regard to the beer question kind of with her father in law, not being a big fan of fruit and beers. Although I wouldn't go so far as to say, they're not really beer this still are. And if you. Like to drink Sam Adams cherry Wieder, shock top or whatever his areas, you can go from there. For instance, with hops you can have all sorts of fruit tastes, fruit, aromas and fruit tastes. So you might consider if you like fruit in your beer trying any of the number of New England PA's that are very fruity. And not Hoppy at all. So it might expand your horizons that way. Well, let's the difference between like a blueberry beer, like see dog has a blueberry beer. Right. Right. So what's the difference between that and one of your fancy beers? Where you say, oh, there's a hint of blueberry. It'd it follows the knows what's the difference. Well, the only difference is those beers are not labeled as blueberry beers. You the hops that give you the flavor. Okay. It's not like dumping a bunch of blueberries into an AOL and saying it's a blueberry beer. Okay. Great. It's it's more subtle. But. I'd still I mean, I'm not the biggest fan of fruit in the beard, but I've drunk more than my share of them. That's a gateway beer could be it could be drink. What you enjoy? Are you like sours? So you drink mostly sours Neal. You'll try their beers from time to time, but you're a sour grow. Yeah. And I'm more of a dark winter beer stout. Porter that type of beer person. Yeah. So he try try different ones. I think the big thing is to keep your options. Open be willing to try their styles. But you're not above teasing people for drinking. Some of these fruit labeled beer, so I think. You think you've done it? Okay. I think you've made fun of plenty of person for that. I might have. Okay. That that was a great voicemail. Thanks, melissa. Cumulus, thanks for supporting us. Also. That's wonderful. So he got some emails. Okay. And the first one is from Cindy. And she has a case suggestion Cindy wrote. I read the book love daddy. And it is about Christian Longo who murdered his family. Also, there's some conflict during his life as he and his parents joined the Jehovah witness denomination first of all he committed a sin before marriage, which prevented him being married in their kingdom hall. This would be a great case to cover due to the fact of this religious denomination. I don't remember if I mentioned this case to you before, of course, Cindy has written to us many times. And I don't think she has mentioned that case. So you familiar with it? I don't think so I would have remembered the Jehovah's connection. Yeah. So yeah, I think it'd be a very good case to cover. All right. Well, we have a few notes here on Christian Longo. He was from Epsilon Michigan. And he married Mary. Jane Baker at age nineteen and they had three children. He and his family often had financial problems due to his reckless spending habits. He was a wanted man in connection with the murder of Mary, Jane and their three children after the body of his four year old son Zachary was found in December nineteenth two thousand one divers. Located the body of his three year old daughter Sadie and Mary Jade in their two year old daughter Madison were found five days later debt as well. After he fled the United States. He was recognized in Cancun in December two thousand one at a hotel and the next day in Oregon federal arrest warrant was issued. They charged him with multiple counts of aggravated murder and unlawful flight he left the hotel on January seventh and was captured six days later without incident in the small town of to loom Quintana Roo about eighty miles south of king Koon he was taken into custody at the George Bush airport, and he was sentenced to death in two thousand three years. Later. He admitted to being a narcissist in a letter that he wrote to a Portland Oregon television station, he wrote that he eventually began studying what a psychologist said and came to terms with it almost totally agreeing that he was right. His conclusion was the narcissistic personality disorder, which he called compensatory winning Mexico Longo used the name Michael Finkel and the former New York Times reporter who later chronicled his experiences in his memoir true story was later adapted into a two thousand fifteen film. So this is a case that is very interesting. And I think I'm gonna buy the book and read it and see what we think it looked interesting. Yeah. Definitely. I have no idea. What happened the specifics? But it's a horrible story. There must be a lot going on behind the scenes there. I'm sure I'd love to look into that. Okay. We'll do that broker. So then we have a Email from Tiffany with her comment on bridges. Darus? So Tiffany says I'm a fan frequent writer and a clinical psychologist from Australia. I specialize in PTSD and have done many years of research into past and current methods of recovery. There is a long and exceedingly checkered history of psychological psychiatric treatments that is frequently unforgivable from inappropriate behavior. Non consenting chemical and mechanical interventions right through to this sort of diabolical practitioner client rape. And that's the possibilities in the episode that the surviving child Becky Becky was victimized by her psychiatrist. Right. Yes. That's true. Just terrible. Tiffany goes on to say cutting to the chase. I am not a big fan of group therapy and Emma, strong advocate of Besset Vander cokes neurobiological approach to PTSD recovery. It pains me that this poor woman who took steps to get. Psychological. Help was virtually pushed off the ledge by all the stuff that happened after the initial act keep him rolling guys. The only thing I just wanted to mention about Dessel van to coke is a psychiatrist in Boston Boston University school of medicine, and he conducted the first studies on the effects of SRI's PTSD, and it was a member of the first neuro imaging team to investigate how trauma changes brain processes. And he did the first research linking BPD, bipolar disorder and deliberate self injury to trauma, and in early childhood much of his research has focused on how trauma has a different impact at different stages of development, and that disruptions caregiving systems have additional dilatoriness effects need to be addressed for effective intervention. Good letter. Thank you, Tiffany. And one final comment from tristen three D. He's commenting on trigger-happy which was. The shooting of Jordan Davis. Yes, he's the young man who was shot outside of a convenience store because the man in the car next one felt like the music was too loud that he and his friends were playing so tristen writes, yes, the parking lot issue was one of the main questions why did he pick this spot? So he saying why did the shooter pick the spot next to the car with the loud music? Maybe he didn't hear the music that he deemed loud, which is actually a matter of opinion to a certain extent beforehand. But as soon as he heard it and was annoyed by it. He had some options asking for bringing the volume down without intent for confrontation backing out into another parking space ignoring it until his fiancee finished her shopping and then just drive away. Hey, there's an idea going inside the station and away from the noise. Those are just the few options off the top of my head. And there are probably more any other option. Other than shooting at a truckload of teenagers would have been a better option, but he chose to confront them. And he did not back down. He did not intimidate as I would have that telling teenagers. What to do would likely result in getting smack tucked back at him after shooting Davis, whom he claimed to be a threat to him. He shot more rounds into a car that was already in the process of driving away from him the assailant with the gun. This is no self defense, especially because the threat he claimed to have perceived with shut down by him already shooting. More rounds only accounts for done being extremely angry at the teenagers in the car for talking back to him angry enough that he wanted to murder them all of them. So in conclusion, I believe he wanted the confrontation he probably thought he didn't have to take anything from anybody because he had gun and the stand your ground law of Florida as murky as it is doesn't make such situations any easier because the gun. Men always believes he just needs to claim self defense and may walk free in return, pulling the trigger makes this so much easier for them. That's the end of it. Or maybe it got cut off. Sorry. No. That's okay. So this is kind of what your opinion was dick. I put this on because Tristan's conclusion was that the guy wanted a confrontation, and that's that's what I think he drove in to that parking lot that mini mart parking lot with the hopes that he could take out his anger at somebody. Yeah. Willie had been at his son's wedding. And he and his son didn't really get along. Right. This was an a strange, son. They hadn't spoken for some time. So he's he's at the wedding. They actually left before during the reception it in stay for the whole thing. And I think there was also some issues that he and his fiancee had been having. There was some arguments. There might take is that he'd probably had some drinks. And he was pissed off his looking to take it out on somebody Jordan Davis was the one who had taken out on probably racist. I think it's pretty safe to say, okay. Yeah. Okay. Well in just an interesting note on the Jordan Davis case is his mom Lucy. Macbeth who became a really prominent anti gun violence advocate, and she's headed to congress in November. She was elected. She has a seat in the Georgia house of representatives. Yes. I think that's great for her that she was able to take this tragedy and do something positive for other people. And we hope she'll continue advocating, absolutely. We definitely need more people like her. Okay. Is that the last E-mail for today? That's for today. So let's finish our beer title back home. Resign its way. Okay. Sounds great. Thank you for listening. And we will see you next time at the quiet and quarry and by by by.

Amy Bishop Amy Judy Seth Seth Judy Dr Amy Bishop Braintree Judy Bishop Braintree officer Amy Bishop Sam Amy professor Boston Amy Jim Huntsville polio university of Alabama university of Alabama Huntsvil Harvard
147: BIGMOUTH EXTRA: Scenes from Keith Flints memorial

Bigmouth

13:03 min | 1 year ago

147: BIGMOUTH EXTRA: Scenes from Keith Flints memorial

"Go. All your favorite movies and shows faster with xfinity just speak into the voice remote to search across live TV on demand. Even Netflix Primero. Now. That's simple easy. Awesome. Switch to xfinity today. And get a great offer. You'll enjoy x one which gives you access your favorite streaming out. Like Netflix YouTube now prime video gotta accent dot com. Call one eight hundred eighty or visit the store today to learn more restrictions apply. Hello, welcome to an extra one of dishes of big mouth. My Ruben LeBron. I'm a podcast from Essex and the music fan. Unlike so many teenagers of the ninety s I grew up with the prodigy the knees of Keith Flint's death last month. Let me really and so when he's prodigy bam mates per out, the call for anyone love Keith to come to some Mary's Church in bucking to attend his funeral last Friday. I picked up my microphones, and did my best document an extraordinary moving day. So let's get on in here from friends and fans of the man the icon, Keith Flint wells, Sunday concert with fine dry day. Cloudy goes on. But Scotland dulled our. Chrissy bridge travels average clean early. And so it was instigated by years of happy memory and one tragic non on a fine dry debt. He could deal such. I voted the pack train at brain gym to pay. My respects to flip the of party's biased thought icon of nineties, dons and culture on meal. Is your show we've been over rice? Oh boy. Coming. Come show, many nights kids. I wanted to be permit g we're on. Copied the hat don's. And now heating bandleader Liam Howlett's call to raise the roof a king as much funeral. The extended prodigy family sets out for case Essex. Fooding trains. I could trip back to ninety two cheat. We'd fumes filled the carriage ten boombox died. The rate. I'm sure some people tickets. I asked but I travel is why they'd come. If I wasn't here, basically might. He came down from the train of Braintree and walking the couple of miles of the church booking by the service would be held thousands of gathered to line the streets for the funeral procession for here the service, I've allowed speaking never know tourists tracks from the purges incredible twenty five year rib lays for pasta, car, window, and windows and gardens account is housing pugs on the rig that was a real sense. This was Keats. And so many different ways. We felt we need to somehow or he knew spoke to him. Mike connected with him somehow. Been knocking. On berries occasions, route years and got to know just one of the most genuine likable pay off ever met. I'm lucky to have some very good, friends and. Close in that respect considering the frame. He's just one that will ads he had no. Bigheaded this about. And the success. He was just down to a really decent. And he was calling as well. Really do anything. Nothing. Why seventy today because everybody. Who likes probably likes mugshot racing. You know? Countryside life. No. What cates? Fly and that will feel connected to them. One in a million say like. But really like anyone. Going back to those raves as and then going throughout the is. It's been interesting to see how keeps become more involved than just being the dancers have been. It's been so to being the front man and not afraid in trying different things, you know. And. Faso to be able to cross over say, well, why have done during different styles just stole nation. And you know. I just feel sad. That was happy is. He want to be. To today. Guild reston blessing when he's talked blow. Louis loving. Outside the chat at the retreat. Pub opposite g Ray was in full sway. Reaffirming the family. The first person I stood atop of bad Bah from the village. Green is geez. Tour bus driver. Too good breaking ninety five. Boys. Very nice. This little lady. And the stories just played the men. Tolerant generation fine not off the chain right festival movement. You know, which is really nice. You know, it's not new ones seems particularly don't everyone's to enjoy themselves and sit light cat support us what the music is about, Dan. Did you your children? Yep. Roy. Say whatever the active devoted you. Anyway. Kafe in the fan. If I might seem trivial. Been doing the tribute bounds. Fourteen years we had to be head. I see. So it's amazing to have you noticed time to speed up there into give it your. You have to give to ten percent just to kind of Philly shoot, not sensing. Tribus calm you down there. You know? This is here. That's not I'll be doing sivvy's advice death. We to counsel them next gig. Which was in. Arctic's was mentioned being Milton Keynes seventy quality findings. He wants Jacome and told me of I football with. They'll do the gate it will be Ciampi game. So Oldham only rice is to a mental. How charlie? Yeah. Yeah. That gigs to me on the rest of the motion. An amid the mice carnival atmosphere. The point hot that. We'd key. Every interview I'll have a suitcase thing actually living lower Novem does living. Living those. You just never know on those there. I just ran away from school and family. I drive, and it was we all knew especially that. Pawning with friends in warehouses license. Dancing on stage next to white gloves on. Jenkins. Lightning talking, right? Enjoy special especially here. Yeah. He's so remind you of over. Good terribly side. Cracker. Wow. What about practice? I think. I I'm I'm sure movements will come again, they feel like we were that Austin ration- of maple just gang out of our lives and pie ings together. From why have a background you came from rich or black white ice? Right sent truck. Roma's add ING with a Cullen. I even just Baynes together. Oh, one thing. And I'm not sure we see much that now early side. It's a shame. It's gone. And is the motorbike signal the arrival of the hearse and Kice family and friends went into the church. The crowd settled as actor Paul k read tributes from those new Kice best. And of course, he's bam mates. Play play. I wonder what it was night as immature. Today here. How every crazy story from Keith incredible light cheers. And last his army of fans. Inside friends and family privately greed on this side of occasions well outside to an extended family Keith played for his crowds. One more time. Is the sounds of the jam played at the church by Joe mcadam rang out over the speakers. We said goodbye to Keith Flint, a true and detained. Are your favorite movies in chose Dr extending just speak into the excellent remote likely on demand even can prime video. Dot com. Today. Restrictions apply.

Keith Flint Keith Essex Netflix Keith Flint wells xfinity Ruben LeBron Liam Howlett Mary's Church Braintree YouTube Chrissy bridge Scotland rice Kice Keats Joe mcadam cates Mike Faso
Acquied Season 3 Episode 7: Venmo (live with Andrew Kortina)

Acquired

1:08:51 hr | 2 years ago

Acquied Season 3 Episode 7: Venmo (live with Andrew Kortina)

"Hey acquired listeners we have a big announcement today. We're launching a bonus show for five dollars a month. You can become what we're calling a limited partner and get access to it. And for those of you who know or googling the term limited partner. We hope you like our creativity on the name. We're excited to use this new format to cover all sorts of things that don't fit into our normal episode format and dive deeper into a lot of company building topics. Are I L P bonus show is on the jargon of what venture capitalists say in? When words don't just mean, what the dictionary says, they mean, we've covered some great ones, including sideways credible. And I know this is David's favourite not raising right now, always a fan favorite. So we are super excited about this not only because it will give us an avenue for creating more types of episodes, which we've been wanting to do for a long time. But because it will give you guys away the support the show and helped make it even better so today on acquired we've plowed everydollar we've ever made right back into the show better equipment software adds travel etcetera. And we're going to continue to do the same here, which we think will really take things to the next level. If you'd like to become an acquired limited partner, you can click the link in the show notes of your podcast player of choice or go to kimberlite dot FM slash acquired. That's K. I M B E R L I T E dot FM slash acquired. And with that onto the main show. Welcome to season three episodes seven of acquired the show about technology acquisitions and does I'm Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal. And we are your hosts today, we are doing another oft requested episode the van MO acquisition. I by Braintree. And then shortly thereafter by pay pal? We've been waiting until just the right circumstances, which we finally had the show you'll hear on this episode was recorded at our very first live show in San Francisco this week with special guest, Andrew Cortina, the co founder of van MO now we had some issues at the live show and very long story short the only recording that we have of the show is from an iphone that was placed on the table in front of us. We sincerely apologize for the audio quality. We know it's not quite acquired standards of the episode. But we decided that the content of the interview with Cortina was just way too good not to not to release to everyone. So who is Andrew Cortina Cortina is a consummate entrepreneur as you'll hear on this episode, his constant stream of startup ideas and passion for nailing the experience led him to start countless projects from FILA funk to Vento both of which we will get into today to give you a sense of his very talents. He started his college experience as a CS major at Penn. But after feeling that he could learn more programming outside the classroom than in he switched majors and ended up graduating with majors in philosophy and creative writing and minors in computer, science and logic. He has since gone on after van MO to found Finn with Sam lesson which we will talk about later on this show. So get excited to hear Indra Cortina now before we dive in I wanna think are fantastic sponsors for all of season three Silicon Valley Bank. Joining us today is routine gray wall. So routine is the head of Silicon Valley banks payment strategy and solutions based right out of San Francisco where you're quoted the episode so rotunda your. Payments group at SV is an incredibly appropriate one for this episode. Can you talk about some of the work that your group does? And some trends that you're seeing in payments innovation today. Sure. Semi team engages with companies at all stages in their life cycle that are trying to innovate in payments, commerce, fintech and tries to help them bring their solutions to market in sort of side by side product element model. So we work with companies to people in a way workspace all the way through to corporations that are trying to innovate need help. Understanding the ways to do that from a payments and money movement perspective. So in reference to trends in Aymen's, there's a wide variety of things to talk about. But in general, I would say on the consumer side. There's just a, you know, a high level of big push around transparency and simplicity that's really driving a lot of the trends. And then on the business side, it's really around speed efficiency, and like data quality and things like machine learning. Being and distributed ledger. Technology are all coming into play. When people are building solutions to address these the pain points in the industry. Thanks for tika. You can learn more at dot com or reach out to retake a specifically by clicking the link in the show notes or in the slack. Alright. Now onto the live version of David with the history and facts, so David you won't take us in. Yes. So you went to. For under and your freshman. Roommate turned out to be very faithful realize what was your? What was your the first time you meant figuring when when I was at school like a week early when the eighteen support desk people, and there was like our training for the team or whatever. So is there early in life? Already like out drinking and partying every night. And so when I first met him, I was like hungover asleep at one pm afternoon, and he ruled into our room with his whole family. With like this van full of people all this is like I like, a tennis racket stringer and just all this crazy stuff. Like, why would you possibly have this in ten foot by ten foot dorm room? And just like a caravan of people, and I was with my computer, and I was like. Elite as kind of like move in. And do your thing. I'm gonna go like hang out at the gym or something. And then I remember we went to KMart to like get shit for a room like supplies and stuff and. I don't like shopping until I was like, okay. Like, I'll get like a refrigerator, a microwave or something. And I remember we were there for like. I know three hours at K mart. What the fuck are we doing KMart three hours here? Like. Take this mini fridge on the subway back. It'll be fine right now. It's cool. Like, we're about ready. You shouldn't have to carry that in the subway. Yeah. Anyway. So that was. Great question. David. What I like to know is was the first time that you started hacking on stuff together and thought, hey, maybe maybe we can start a company or at least a project together. One thing. We did was we convinced somebody's like dad or something Liz redo their website. Just like Bill something like some sort of us. PHP them way too much money for the way, nobody really knew how to program like scrape something together. Which wasn't really late consumer product. It was more like swindle. This was this wasn't like nineteen ninety five where red lake you were actually hustling people because this was the mid two thousand you could build a website, right? Mean this one to build a web site. I was definitely possible. In our senior year, we both loved Craigslist. I'll tell you story of the microphone after tell this story. So we both love Craigslist. And we wanted to do like a the first consumer product we worked on senior was like three or four friends, we will sink called my campus post, and the ideal is it was a classified site for college students and everybody could verify that they were transacting with somebody else the college. There is trust layer bayton into the wouldn't have you're using Craigslist and a life party for the Nichols band one party and just like all these wires that we put everywhere and like all of our friends in the dorm rooms like shoving flyers under every door that they could which was like totally not kosher with the university. I think we heard like half dot com. Guys, did that we actually we go people sign up for that. But the problem was the seasonally that like it's very hundred teen classified side. But Craigslist those love Craigslist. And we wanted to meet Craig Newmark after college. So we increment women that we had a podcast. We didn't. We didn't. He was like responded to it. And so we fluted San Francisco to meet him, and like did no preparation homework or anything. And we were like we had we have no. Well, that's familiar. Like, we have these laptops that like just like overeat and turn off. And so we create new Ardabil, you know, can come interview you and we met him at some coffee shop on like the twin peaks. I guess he lives over there. And we showed up in lose like, oh before we went there to meeting a microphone. So we went to like best buy God. Like. Look at leg refunds. We still use being my cocoon that said like podcast or Mike. Legit. And we should have just like after fifteen minutes of hardware failures. We get into the interview like crazy markets super pissed off at this plate and Ingram. Just starts asking these like rubbish questions just like nine research. And he was just like what the fuck is hilarious. Still from from that beginning. So I feel like a lot of people if they don't know you they don't either. We've done a lot of research on you. And they think about Ben mo-, Billy. Okay. Two kids from Penn. You guys must have started this league around this. As like, it's easy to imagine. You're going for beer. You're splitting pizza split expenses from that KMart trip. But you actually a bunch of stuff after graduation before again. One of which was you worked at an early combinator coming both of you guys were the first to please. I couple of please at I'm like with you which became g pop which became draws Baotou Ziga. How did you guys? Get from Philly get hooked up with a y combinator company Craigslist. Nick, John post on Craig's list and these guys. This sounds like a cool company. We should move to New York in like try to go work with these guys. So we took a bus up there. And that the two founders, you know, like chatted with them. There was like not really a format interview process. They were just like you guys seem smart come work for us. We were totally not qualified for this job for like real software engineering, but it was joined learn to work with like that team was incredible. It was like some of the smartest people at work with original team. It was really it was really awesome. But we weren't there for a while. And it was like this dating website, and then they pivoted to do casual games. And we're really not really what we signed up for. We're going to go do other stuff. So you were at I'm with you. It grim was at ticket leap so ticket. Leave ends up being an important component in the founding of them, or at least the as far as I can tell the initial capital. Can you tell the story of how all that went down? Well, so digger my both had part time jobs will be started. We had fulltime jobs, then we started working on than though in nights weekends. Then we kind of like transition to part time as we got a little bit further. And we wanted to get some like advisers who knew how to build a company involved in one of those advisors sky, Chris who is the ticket. Another guy Sam lesson who's a friend of mine who started companies more like early advisors after we had spent a many months working part time getting progress getting some of our friends using them. Oh, they ain't kind of encourage you guys to go work on this full time. And then the first investors were Sam and his dad. And they helped us find people to put together in early round of financing. We quit our jobs and go work fulltime. And we say Sam is your current vendor. Fin Sam lesson who was was he running drought at that point. Yeah. Which ended up being think Facebook's first acquisition is that it I like second or third. And and then that what's what's ahead independent. He ends up being super influential to you guys not just as an investor, but as product feedback in terms of building the the news within them. How did that happen? Well, he actually wasn't really involved in the news feed part of them though. He was more involved in this featured we had called trust. Which was it was like friendy, but more powerful where you can trust them. Oh back in the day. Then I could just take money out of your Cal without. It was like it was awesome and highly efficient and like a cool relationship. Obviously. Without the sort of like legal stuff. It was. But obviously got shut down immediately after. The newsfeed Kate ignite when we started we had blackberries. And we were we would use text messaging, and blackberry. Don't think even had threaded text messages. And so like, our whole text message scream would just be payments that we were making through van Mojo, and it was like all this cool shit that we were doing like going to bars and restaurants, and concerts and things and we just thought like, oh, this is like interesting content. We should just make this part of our out. And so one thing that we skipped over a little bit is the initial idea for Vento. I take it. Then MO wasn't gosh. You know will be great. If anybody could transfer money to any of their friends anytime right off the bat. It feels like there was a little Lucien there had it start. And how did it get to a social payment app? We worked on a lot of different things. One of one of the first things that we did was this is before square other point of sale software. So one. Our friends was starting this yogurt like a pink berry. It was called yoga Renault. And so like yoga Reno near the point of sale system, and we felt like we could build a better point of sale system that anything that existed. So we built this browser-based DOS with a USB credit card swipe Bor, and we thought maybe we would do that as a business, but we didn't really like the idea having to go door to door to sell point of sale systems. So we decided not to do that another thing that we wanted to do was Megan you can like if you go to a small free concert in a bar. They don't charge for tickets. But then the this thing where they pass the hat, and when they pass the hat around everybody like throws in a couple of bucks. But if you're a musician, you know, like this is like a super shitty way to make money. And if you have a band of like five people you make like, maybe seventy bucks and five off the split that is really like peanuts. And we thought it'd be cool if you could just laying text money to the band to support them while you're at the concert if you're just like feeling attract. So we worked on that for a little while. And that's kind of how he got into like, okay? We should figure out how to make something we could send text messages and Mike charge money. That we were working on that for a while. And then there is this day when it was visiting the New York, and he just didn't have any money on them. He roommate check to pay me back. And we were like this is stupid light. We should be we use like all these other apps that you everything else. None of our friends like exchange money with pay pal. Feels like we should be doing that. But if we're not something is clearly broken. Like, why don't we just go solve this problem? We are experiencing right now. And that was kind of like the initial idea. So let me went and kind of like. Went back to like, find a computer, and like do some research, and I saw guy sending this note about oboe pain. We found this company called ovo pay lift him up man oboe pay raise seventy million dollars to do like phone payments. This to. Then we looked at their website. And is like all these people in suits, and a really shitty website that obviously no one was going to use. Okay. We can compete with overpay. Seventy million ain't nothing. So so. This great slide you end up raising seed round for them of one point two million dollars. And you have this slide in your pitch deck. I assume you would have been pitching the idea with the band payment idea before then you you cross L. Edgy your regional mission was enables musicians to accept payments for songs merchandise subscriptions via SMS. And then when you guys did is you crossed out of words in your. In the slide deck and you put instead Ben Nabil's anyone to accept payments for anything anytime and. I think this is like synthesiser cool. So many startups that I've been involved in it, we see like Rovers great example in the beginning Rover was like when you're out of town when you're on vacation put your dog with a real family instead of an account like great now is rivers I chapter rate. But then we started talking really Rover is actually about being the best dog owner that you can be and there's so much more than that. And like do you guys like you figured it out? And that kind of unlocks the big visit how is? Curiously when you were pitching then middle before versus after how did that added that chain reactions from investors? One thing. I remember about pitching was we pitched this guy. And he was like I only want to invest in homerun, upper -tunities. It doesn't make sense invested anything other than a billion dollar company and Graham said to what we're going to trillion dollar company. And then you laughed at them as like man, that's not cool. I remember that about context been moved in seventeen billion transaction volume last quarter. So yeah, pretty yeah. Yeah. So it's not the market cap. But. Yeah. So raising money for that Moses like. It always sought. We're we always like, you know, there's always like some law change in what we needed tons of money immediately or couldn't pay people like be violating some lawn end up in jail. We didn't have enough money which is never a good position to be raising money in. So basically anytime we did any sort of financing like vested again, we said, we will get horrible terms, and it was just like sharing. And to walk through what that looks like. At least what the recorded history of most fundraising is is about one point two million in sort of angel seed round that that Sam invested in. And some others and then your series ended up being I think seven million dollars that was led by that. Ari? Excel excel excel. So, you know, big first institutional venture capital firm investing. And then at this point, you guys are growing like crazy. Can you talk about growth as it relates to? How are you guys making money, and how are you dealing with growing so fast? But from my understanding not not bringing a nearly as much as you were burning on on faster-growing. I mean Venlo never was they were never made any money. It was just like it would just be spending the money custody and transactions. But do you get enough you get people on there? And then instead of charging people the page other charge businesses to accept payments from people to have them. Oh, it's like the people model, but we were never making money. Let me back when I was there. So that was like another challenge with that fundraising situation always found ourselves in. So then MO is like inherently viral from the very beginning. Did you try growing so fast because the faster you grew or users? You got the more engagement you got the more money you're losing to interchange fees, especially on the credit card side. Others very sensual. There's a picture of scotch onto their first employee polluted. He was holding my poster. Subash less said, you're not really on. And yet. So idea councils like. If you're trying to grow. Of. So the faster you grow. Money lose. They're definitely people that said that. What do you want to slower? But we would definitely like we didn't lots of stuff too. Reduce the spending. And so we want like more user growth, the lower cogs. And so early on we were doing with credit Jackson's and fee to something like three percent. And users don't have to pay and you know, just like some of the. And so took a bunch of work to get a bunch of to getting thanking Larry with Louis duty sees action of the volume that we were doing, but they're not really significantly reduced our unit x let Mike sort of cost us insane transactions of their like this point where we like spending way too much money fussing birds, and what moves like, why are we spending money? This many games. Reduce the us. So much work getting the Bank. We took much of these users that were like from sites. Such honest flyer. Thomas done on this like credit card points, hustling, never which you know, spicing reading right now. Credit voters, and there was some. Running points. Yeah. And there's some people that earned like they thought it was like, you know, the only. These users. To be on the Bank, which he did. But we have to do them transition rate before you went to raise the. We've had like three to downlands grooms transition of killing these. Tracking users and retaining getting everyone Bennett. Like picking back up, but it was just like not of tune time to translate to millage you guys. Accent. Yeah. Which leads into the first position of regime. Regime, but actually before against this. I did it would be. Been to. Can you? Tell us a live John. The no he wasn't bleeding. John. So for those. I definitely did. Yeah. John he was on the bachelorette. But if played on this of Bessler to invented Nevil for created the Lissa. Listen. So. Yeah. No. So even though the bachelor, but John Graham, we've met him soonest got nine and not Hamilton is a guy with Columbia who really on the street getting coffee coffee, and we love them t shirts and this got nine. Oh, really good. We made. What awesome? Stories working on some single tour which was like India for touring thing, we have little toters show. You do cool stuff should come work at them. And if you're suffrage he's like well. Thing. But. And so he those John Graham. And Jesse mentor who's done grams freshman year roommate in college LUSA guys for us. They also is this this guy Juliet calmer. We went to high school with we heard that guy this guy, Don that Juliet baseball also. Ten. Co-founder or just like all these kids. Living lot grain for well. There's all. John Dan from. This random encounter on the street. We hired like ten chicks from Columbia. Just of your when teachers. Listen, this this hirings is like nobody was like nobody knew then was except for a few teams both. It was not letting the type of place like all these create engineers and learn best practices from totaled. We mean. So. So. You've been scrappy series B from is going well Samir from zones on rate. Excels. Also, the main mec- Chicago. Raising than is in a lot of ways other sudden coin of what you're doing. We've been rigging with consumers. The brain freeze of this prescriptive 's restricted jets. Braves of. On the internet. So still to the same rumor every me a whole bunch of other. News process in for anybody who's using building web, apps or. The things and trying to accept payments before strike before Braintree us companies like authorize dot net you'd like trying to cobble together some kind of gateway. It was unbelievably difficult problem to accept credit cards on on the web and mobile apps raising pollution right now, even straying. It's no wonder four billion dollars. So did the intrigue. Not read are though. We. So actually, we repressing famous through first data on the account because we took it over. Over overshop. Nobody would give us. So we use us. But then using grade treat the ACH payments and for people getting out to pay out of Venlo using the no. No, no. We were using the yoga time to accept payments, and then we distribute money back out. And bridging a little bit really on they shut down. And we were like the last summer. We will get calls every month like really into like gets off as thing. Sunday this prime. We're we're gonna Bank dislike one more month to like figure something out. Probably the year. So the business creditor. Yeah. Looks like doing all the processing for us. So we knew them. Well, they did a lot of nice favors for us. Non kill that were relying. So how did the how the position talks? Bill over with you. Yeah. But in the visit. Yeah. Samir's interest and was like you should go to the Braintree guys. Station. We miss the first meeting him really have. I the process. The fate of. L? Madam Saudi merchants, but we're didn't like it consumer type saying, and we have customers wanted to start making money by customers to pay merchants. Just kind of got into this conversation. We have this. We're both trying to the same place different sides. May we'll do it together. And this was right around the same time. When also we had been trying to like, many months to raise a series B with no success or dislike running out of money. In the whether it was like. The only money left that we had to be kept in escrow. Largely complied with some long. Really totally money in. No. There was no one to do anything. So we shut down eight or seven and we had an offer from groupon. Like, a million bucks or something shit that? We talked to guys at square in like, nobody. Here's actually an engineer adviser. You guys. Giving this in connection. Same story Facebook, nobody called me on the. On the. Books. Yes. And then Bill was like. She goes one company for. He even to the point where like we were missing payroll and just like the money before before the deal was blows the maintain role because. There's like there's trying to like get the balance that out before Gordon. Gordon? I'm. It was money think about taking so Banik. Bill is basically Bill. The only person in the entire start of adventure. He goes that sees the tunnel for women movies today. Yes. The Bill in. I mean, everybody bills for. It's it's so like mush, how'd you hit you late on the person price twenty six point two million dollars. We this is a good luck. New never be the first person to throw a number out there. But we we were talking to these guys from Braintree and let them twenty years raising your series B. I think so he was like what will go raise like ten million bucks. And then they just donate napkin to really well. If you're gonna raise a million dollars. This would be the post money stand turnovers of come to. Bill was believer. The. This earlier. But I think it's worth reiterating for with me. They're researching this episode. We haven't diva fintech. Most of you are divas. Again. Of. Really win business model that makes sense raven these business model, which is that's pretty. Visa's visas business model which. And people start the same with the consumer woman, essentially, but you kidding consumers. But you have to make money by merchants and so excited, you don't consumers you need a lot of Mertens who are willing to accept this could serve merchants of the system. And it's it's crazy. Gets enough to and actually gets the early gets the next position of there were only two people on this. There was little in the race because it was less than a year later than the combined. Yeah. Leading only companies to them for sure. I mean, they they get the business like fan. What it takes to the point where even merchants to adopt and panisse pointing out like it sounds when you're just hearing first time like, oh, they're the only ones enough to do this or they were the lake include. There was almost volt inside of break tree when they're done. A lot of employees at Braintree and came reasons wait that things hemorrhaging cash, it's not like real property. They're they're they're growing so fast. They can't there's no plan in the future to start making money. But we we were in process of little much returns action sound business like builds huge chance witness internal team and eternal culture direction that somebody must go him. And I think it's just worth underscoring like it. Now that everyone uses then MO when inside a safe company like came how they're doubling down in Vendome huge waves. It seems like. So logical. But in retrospect in that time, really they really didn't seem to two minutes. Probably in like a billion dollars spent on. These big us. Killed business. Venda same sort of. Yeah. It's worth some curious the promptly instruments after the access bridge built did starts. But. From some with you. I mean, what's been reported? Surges lays breakthroughs, very nascent swimming. But there were you was than liberal using PayPal. Pretty big trainer. They come here. As far as. The bridge. Is screwed up. The of do, you know, if they were representing like when SuperBeets over eight hundred million dollars. They are the pitching them bowed. Do you think to to pay phone? I don't know, sir. Actively fifty I'm sure like talking about nine hundred thousand thing. Sure, they talked about like the girth ready. But. Outside like, David Marcus, got it. But. Sure. A lot of the the rest of pay pal was also similar like we should shut down. Like, why would we already have this? What we haven't done this. I don't think there was like a ton of talk on either side about the importance of them. So the position does. Two for we forget. One of the acquisition happens. Also. The best example of this. Midfield. This you guys. Twenty four. Right now to the New York. It was during desert the exist. I. Of. Yeah. So that that time Braintree was working this leg creative agency to do a big brand of the company is like sewer developer focus operating system for payments. Like their credibility. Straightens? Jan is on the scene. And so they were doing and then they're like, well, you can have this agency like do something paid advertising for holidays. And the third idea was put tonight's best buys split gift of Venlo or something like that. And I remember this being office in New York with Ibra and our freedom director near on being. There was like this is like we never spent money on that thing when they were gonna do put ads on best buy like, that's just really. There are many. Department point. People do nothing. Yeah. Anyway. So he was like if we're going to spend all this money on as we should at least something fun like some sort of. Some sort of out of billboard type of thing. I'm really cold. Like keep it really simple looking. He's like Jimmy coffee. Spend Bill, really? Yes. He was like a DevOps engineer. Dreaming copying. That's cool. And so. Foden Lewis off of me. This time said saying like we're sitting there one the blue. Neil gets voted off the team page, and he puts a Santa hat and light with Photoshop for some reason. Puts those little banner on their of Lugosi's. That's just like way back background. That's like all of this. And then like now leader in the street and let the Cillian evil. What the fuck is them. And really awesome. Who are like the Bill through this. And then bills get approval spent over a thousand dollars to send it to pain. Where's the rest of this like? You get to like attack some assets right now. Bill. I like Bill. Explain what is on here. And now have do like, this is telling you, that'd be awesome. I'll put in my entire doing. But we have to do like this. But it's also missed. That's. Like Lawson part of like, I don't get guys. Like, let's do. And so one of our people call the subway folks on black Friday and inventory holidays. And then we this shit with Lucas as saying as his vendor mustache, that's like not very full Mustangs. And he's only watering tans just weird. There's all these like there's like when the subway this place huge staircase where the big son of Lucas takes stairs. Like, that's it. There is like people. What is who the fuck is, Luke? And there'd be like news articles like reviled Finland explains. Fisburne argument explains. Yeah. Jumped into your women's successor. Lots. I can't decide if this is like soberly, or is this is like perfect product markets thin lets you mess everything else. Well this. This. Really six. There were tons of like the amount of our Twitter. Facebook shares rented threads there were like people making me generators. We can make your own Nukus is. It was like crazy. There was this guy. One of our team was down in Puerto Rico for the holidays, and it came people in in my pool in Puerto Rico. We're talking about Lucas. And it was just like it was insane. Like the number of action. It definitely we love to the lifting sign ups in New York like other cities, definitely like, but it it worked. I mean, we had a feeling baby something far exceeded expectations. But the main reason we did it without funny. Attention gave out late saying, okay, I need to research. This thing actually. A friend like what it's do. You know, what this thing is? And that's. The. A great story. But. As we were doing research on on this episode. The kept hearing from people is that. Yes. Had probably murder rate. But like implicit like, even though with all of the twists and turns along it wasn't like overnight just blew actually release rapidly. You weren't house like on the. Actually went out on the street. Today, we test everything and you weren't always like out telling. Story sending Peter. A year and a half. Delivery year in these that had been. He came to my. The figures on you were Airbnb most in New York during that and he came in. In the photos. This to up Laura intersecting, Mike. Everybody knows the story of like Brian go to New York like living with some of the early hose pictures, there aren't sport. You're one of the really hosts. Yeah. It comes searching. Cool. Why not of? We'll get back to that. Okay. So. The last thing car with before revenge of vaccines. Just basically continue growing. Pure indefinitely. Remember when the acquisition have balance. What Grossman's action value run ready? Something like a billion and early. That's not the day. Reporting last week, and I slide of their sec was most growth. Earlier billion dollars or. And believe about ten percent of Belsen. Tire insiders words the. Are in category. So as you own. I say over. Decent where people here brought my friend or something government Deary. All right. So in the next section of this show the first section, anyway, we these faster we have the acquisitions we basically decide. Why? And and this is obvious time. Get to this point in the episode. But sometimes horse-trading we decide whether this acquisition was people technology product business line asset consolidation or other. And for people listening for a long time, you know, the down this just continues to all right? So to me the differentiation that we make between product and business line is that products. Get integrated into an existing business and run as a single business. So the same sort of. You could imagine that product gets Microsoft and Microsoft, Salesforce, go out and continues to how the pavement sell that product. A business line zone is something that completely operates its own engineer to product sales to marketing kind of business unit. And that's what this because what we're seeing some really using sort of. Pay pal sort of anger. Yeah. Give house. And they're they're starting to replace a lot of the pay pal stuff with them though. I mean, it's been five years to complete the as an independent thing. I'll be subsidized by payouts balancing, but I'm going to visit. I'm tangled. We're doing enough to remember Spence here. But it's. This is the move is. Is the the save nece on old? On versus Adams same merchants Salesforce purchase. Sunny is different in Sumer ons at the front of the rise of the MAC the immersive side. Integrated this blue to just of. Yes. Yeah. The temblors. Yeah. The the business line things think them didn't have any business with fatality. Murphy network. And the reason ten like to office. The just like some of the products weeks like this because it was designed for people use their friends you can reduce a lot of friction than payment because it was designed to transact dumb. No. Until I was actually suddenly different. And that made it grow faster. Permanent. Important. And I think what we're thinking about for anyone. Doing consumer startup is that you're you can have higher higher viral coefficient if it's between links slightly more distant distant trusted Arden's rather than people who aren't into. So many people super. Okay. The most interesting question for me germs of an alternate history. Here. Will be guest artists. Position. No. To legal term. Listened over. Should've. If we didn't get quite braids. There'd be value. Some light. Example or something like that? Square. But what's interesting? Striped dip, sending MRs focused on. I'm. But. Devin be empower ful conduct. On urban was student over-focus validity. To go down real hours. I think it would have been. The products of I don't know if the fighting series with stunning suspend like billion dollars getting those employees where big noth- network consumers to be interesting to the merchants, but like. The bachelor of similar shape. All right. So going into tech. I won't use the beginning of this section to do something. We haven't done yet in this episode, which is you mentioned square. Can't. We haven't talked a lot about spoiler. We talked a lot about them. But we haven't talked that much about what each of those companies are doing today and David alluded to something that pay pal. The only business Winston space is aims needs. I wanna spend a little bit time unpacking that and trying to talk about what each company is doing. And what the strategy is and trying to pattern match what's sixty failed across each so square cash launches. So so I think we all know square are something in the back of how any merchant in actually internationally in the world can easily accept payments and using their business. So these see that often saying we need to be in here transaction business too. They on square cats now rebranded as the cash they had a value proposition around you're going to be on. Instantly transfer something to someone else which is extremely expensive because you're paying into deposit quickly other people's banks be very cheap ACH or the free strategy of just transferred. Something somebody's sitting in their venom account like the dream scenario where David I'm gonna then you you're gonna sign up transplants might Bank Qazvin anything. And so if there's a way to monetize mean when I'm it's closed loop. Where all the money is just staying in the two of us. That's great. Now. I want to ask a little bit of color to why David you're saying, the only business visa won the faith how one and also saying that stripe and Vendrell. Vendrell powerful combination. Imagine you have what van MO has which is two different parties that are transferring money to each other and do so often noth- that they're willing to leave money in them. So it doesn't cost them anything to have that dream scenario where people are moving money round each other. And most of the time if they are moving their make account they're doing someone relatively cheap way with with these age if you also had all the merchants on that same ecosystem where you didn't have to ever have cost. Good soul to transfer money to a Bank, then you can really business on your hands. Because what businesses are willing to do is pain inner change for that transaction. So that sort of revenge is today is where when you any with. You are both shape Searle's. Yearn any. Any you're just hurting Clinton percent. Right. I mean imagined the high velocity like I spend five the from there is that people use on average five times a week using. So when the all those payments are free. There's a two point nine percent same as a credit card transaction fee, plus three cents when you go and pay a merchant. Now, that's all that's all sort of free money for for bent for Ben though, because they don't have to pay anything to the Bank until incitement subtle once a week or once every two weeks or whenever she's actually move money out and then into their Bank contempt so then per transaction just in one lump sum. So kind of an amazing like feno can take advantage of having pain payment really building out into a merchant network to an unbelievable. Yeah. I don't talk a lot. But one other point I want to make is that it's interesting how three times in a row. There are businesses that try to start in pure pure transactions and don't find a great business there and then pivot to the puritan congress paying for this. And so if you way back pay pal, and they sort of twice pay pal for transfer money to other people, but like really their business model is you buying stuff online and taming of stuff online. You look at squares versus greatness model Tatum in economy and returns action. They second business that swear cash spur catch up pivoting to where they're really changing to be bent rather than hey should transfer money. You're friends with his cash the really Bank for the under bent. We've talked a lot about this yet. And there's probably follow up to square. Coming at some point. But if anybody's using the square cash, you'll notice like they're pushing this card on you will they get caught up every transaction in the Devon part in so square. Invent Mercer team very different strategies at this point where it's already has emerging network there now with the cash trying to start a business where they're able to make money on this debit card sign every time. One of their users makes transaction they make that change. When you look at Vendome, again, we're seeing after all these years now lining the merchant network, which is funny. One of the guys had originally. But really? Really really they really urgency. Right. So to the extent that I mean, there's real consolidative our they're real what's the tariff war synergistic? Our there. Now. That was those always the idea of late. We knew there was no business of transaction. You don't because you're competing with Ted lights, literally part physical cash, and there's no fees that considering AT&_T as we'd never plans monetize the PT. Grew. What you have to go. Get the merchant onto the network to actually start making money. This during. Really? This is. With the caveat future. Plus his leg. Which is which is this. Statement is this better. A bit tastic business model with incredible exits. It's. Which was people who were mobile leagues voted or didn't grow using Homer. Became the win. Wondering Ruth, but Paul has. Verging on your employees. Into depth on the phones here. Minimum Tagliani pluses. Just further Email decision of overcome ears. Was funny. Visa effectively three pay pals in market. Cac visa should probably be the one to scare these problems trying to go for people. Anyway, I'm that's greeting. I'm with you. I mean, I think the thing that concerned you're like, it's still very speculative. Like, we're still in the early days because we just now are starting to see a serious effort in the last two quarters of last three quarters of pay pal deciding to push pay with van moat to a lot of the merchants network. We saw I think. In the huntings import that seventeen percent of people on on van mov have now participated in a transaction where they were monetize user, which for the majority of people is is means they're they're paying a merchant. Some others are paying the fee for instant cash out. But I think the majority of that is paying merchants. So there's reason to be hopeful. I think I'm in the same camp as you now gain with future plus variance is high because it's definitely predicated on new right now still a lot of money still responsible for. A super small percentage of revenue relative to all of revenue, and it's a top totally clear yet, whether we're gonna be paid with with that. Cortina, but. Yeah. Then the little encouragement. Uber. Cool. They did the card. Not any acceptable credit card payment. Also as a merchant, which is like, Florida, greater. Merchantmen work. I don't know like people will use the car. It is like another way to tell me is that make types out. So I can get the deal of certain related. A good way of all the thousand center, pretty good. So that's a cool thing that like what didn't tough to do. Zero longer or as we would do certain originally. How? Yes, after I was going to do nothing. San who sold. His physical years ago was probably from time left him was also doing nothing. And when we realize neither of us working on you're saying, we support them Sundays together and get excited about something. Sort of like frustration than we them. Sort of like say about a lot. When was your phone? When you're on your you're just like, you're looking at something that you had no intention of spending time doing because it was all these dads is and buzzes alerts is designed to slot machine. Like, get your attention on some stream where you know, you don't look back to the very life like within more ten photos when I was younger like not to phone just like doesn't feel like it's a live with your goals. So we wanted to build something like realize the potential phone. Very high connected of human knowledge and allows you to a new person in the world and the times sort of delta. There is pretty thin. And started we wanted to build this like ideas sense fiction. Blair, you have assistant. That's like telling TOPIX consciousness, always listening on many near sort of knowledge of the world of whatever you need. But realize that the today best is like Google or Alexa, probably Google. It's like none anywhere years having a real system. And so he said like one we really feels like this software from science fiction was actually powered by combination of people and machines and software on the back end feels like. That's really set of the Bill. It's called fans people like photon, the personal assistant the advantages variable cost you don't have to spend. You don't have the patriot forty work every week of workload. That's forty hours a week sees rentals by the ties. Helpless, you focus on important. So Cortina, I know a lot of are anxious to get our hands on unfit playgrounds. Oh, you are. Sorry. So court Cortina generous enough and the whole team to critter a really cool custom deal for us tonight. If anybody wants to try given that. Yeah. Good offend on Tom such quieted. There's a it'll get you promote where there's no monthly Venable hundred dollars credit to try it out. Just good. Did you earn carbon? I was doing this event at Berkeley last night for some of their eventually this book, that's one of my favorite books. It's can't move into treatise on why the meaningless of life does not America side of system. This is a really good is brutal. Lizard there. Major another next. Also. Then. It wasn't this. Problems. All start, buddy. Air capital? It's about building. Which was the earlier. Blue. Earn of room somewhere this and such. Jerry was also full of meter undergrad. Very over about this league. The disaster. Twenty years early. The revenue gets left, but really really fun too. Through house barley, year, building, certain employees. The funding rounds doing unemployed forty percent bucks in the beginning. Is. The differences between being released being wrong. Not. All right. Keeping my I'm Superindent computational photography. I think what apple Google and companies are doing now that are extending. The notion of a photograph far beyond. Hey, one was exposed on the film through that glass and doing all sorts of really creative things to make the first step is make the photo. Actually, communicate more of the experience like you were actually being there and layers on top of that which has captured things that are is see but was previously really difficult to see on film. And I think that. The newest iphone in the newest Google pixel three are just like fascinating playground spur for developers. And one of those developers is is how and Sebastian with is one of the folks that works there. And he wrote an article on how I dot Tam called the Iceland. Excess tennis Wyant whole new camera and they're adding called smart wrong. Which if you're a nerd about this kind of stuff, and you should definitely go read this. There's fascinating side by side. Comparisons of like, hey, I took this in raw with the new iphone? And then we ought minted the raw in this way. You can bring out these things and his photograph that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to bring out, and I think the wave that were in is so interesting, and I think this article is written in such a way that it's both. Appeals to lengthen the nervous of us that are interested in this stuff. It has also written away that anybody who's interested in exploring this area is totally totally. So. Article alright acquired listeners we will see you again in a couple of weeks, or I guess you'll hear us again in a couple of weeks for those of you who have already joined the program. The first episode is waiting for you on the bonus show and for those who want to join you can click the link in the show notes or go to kimberlite dot FM slash acquired. That's k m b e r dot FM slash acquired. Thanks.

Bill New York David Mike San Francisco Braintree Sam Facebook Indra Cortina Craigslist Bank engineer KMart Penn Venlo John Graham partner
The Coronavirus Rut, Unwritten Rules of Venmo, and The Anxiety of Adult Friendship

The Sunday Scaries Podcast

13:24 min | 7 months ago

The Coronavirus Rut, Unwritten Rules of Venmo, and The Anxiety of Adult Friendship

"My Name's wilder freeze and this is a Sunday. Scares podcast your cure for the Sunday Blues? If we were. GonNa talk about making friends as an adult to Corona Virus. Rut in the unwritten rules of an admission. I almost record episode this week and I don't really think I need to explain. Why yes I have more time on my hands and I've ever had in my current work from home status and all that much different from how I operate. A daily basis when the world isn't facing a global pandemic but with everything happening around us in the concentration of news and text your phone at all hours of the day. I think we can all agree that things just feel a little mantra now. I'm extremely lucky. And perhaps you're lucky to being able to work from home and truly self quarantine is an absolute blessing. Numerous people around me from my wife. My parents still have to leave for work every day and be on. The front lines is become my biggest source of anxiety throughout this entire ordeal. And truthfully it makes me feel guilty about my emotional state as this goes on my complaints if they exist only in my head seemed completely and utterly trivial. When I turn on the television see places like New York new Detroit absolutely ravaged by something that I'm still having trouble comprehending over the last week. I've only left my apartment for a few different reasons taking my dog out going to the grocery store packing up my podcast studio in picking up. Those last prescriptions from the pharmacy. Each of those trips I find myself hyper aware of my surroundings. Someone said to me quote. This is the first time I've been out in public and knew that everyone around me was thinking the exact same thing and think about it. It's true what goes to your head while you're out. Don't touch anything but if I do touch something I can't touch my face with that hand now even touch other things with that hand shine not have grabbed a grocery cart and just carry these items in my arm. How will get all the way back to my apartment? My hand covered in germs. Without affecting anything else it's a burden we're all bearing and I know from experience that we're all handling it in different ways as for me. I'm not really sure that I'm handling it all that well. I've attempted to created very strict routine for myself. Wake up when I always wake up show before making coffee. Settle into do. Some work works through lunch to maximize productivity and take part in afternoon. Peleton ride get some actual activity under my belt from there. It's an early dinner with one drink before bed. It's not much routine but it's my routine on the less but still there's a weight that I'm having trouble shaking and safe enough doing enough for those who aren't as lucky as me. What can I do to help others during this trying time while also protecting my own mental health like I said my problems are trivial? I sit in front of my laptop and I stare into a blankly this week above any other weeks started. This endeavor has been one of the most difficult weeks. I've had from a creative standpoint. The ideas aren't firing the inspiration. Isn't there the idea of not talking about corona virus responsible but I also want to be a reprieve for those who need it. Where does my social responsibility lie? When I have a platform that could actually make a difference from just before this all happened. One of my favorite writers Haley Nomin left man retailer in in a recent instagram post. She listed some takeaways from a discussion. She had the therapist about the time. We're in those takeaways in. Tld Our form. Where that everyone deal the things. I do differently that you shouldn't burn yourself with guilt if maintaining your team becomes unrealistic that you need to listen to your needs now. We can't undo the situation alone in finally that none of us will comprehend the situation tiller further removed from it during times. When I felt the way to the world pressure me over the last two weeks I returned to that post and use it as something of a blueprint. Something that reaffirms to me that it's okay to not feel okay and that go into this entire process without worry or stress would be more considering than how I'm feeling about it right now and that phrase that I muttered that it's okay to feel okay isn't original nor does it solely apply to the pandemic were facing. But it's something I have to repeat myself when I feel. I'm not doing enough when I'm behind on work when I'm trying to conjure up any creative energy during a time when I simply don't feel creative at all but once we realized that it is in fact. Okay to not feel okay. We give ourselves the opportunity to look beyond our personal and selfish emotions in actually identify with the world around us. We're in this together. So let's act like it it's familiar nervousness. You're anxious about carrying the conversation. You're uneasy about whether or not it's actually a good idea to pursue it in the first place. You wish you could fast forward to see how it goes rather than uncomfortably go through the motions. It feels like a first date but it's not one it just has every single quality of one. There's a sense that you trudge through your twenties. Trying to find things on the forefront it interchange between finding a career and finding someone to spend the rest of your life worth one is more important than the other most though both of which are anxiety inducing enough that worrying about them probably does more damage than good but will falls by the wayside is how annoyingly difficult. It is to find something that carries less societal importance in your job title a relationship status new friends for most of your life. Your friends are products of your environment. The kid you sat next to an elementary school the guy in your soccer team the do down the hall in your dorms corridor. Your coworker closest to you in age. Sure you have a choice of who you can become friends with but the pool from which you draw from is drastically smaller than the job market or dating scene. There aren't indeed or monster dot com for friendship approaching someone in a bar because they look cool comes across as creepy within approaching a girl in a gym who has airports. It's a tough pill to swallow but finding friends outside of your normal friend group can oftentimes we more difficult than finding a job or finding a person that you love and that's where the nervousness comes in getting over the Hump is the most difficult part? Sure you can get drunk together. In Bond. Getting drunk justified friends becomes more and more of a hill to climb as you get older like dating. You find that meeting someone during a night out. More often than not is a fruitless endeavor. Texting a guy who you think has a similar interest. Is You as more difficult than texting? A girl who simply find attractive. Common Ground. Is Everything when sexual attraction leaves the room get finding that common ground is the hardest part. How do you ask him to grab drinks without sounding? Weird how you ask him to spend five freaking hours on a golf course with you. How do you hang out actually establish a friendship without coming off as someone who tries to hard? Even though you're trying hard well the short answer is that you don't you come across. Numerous people could have full fledge friendships with only to allow them to waltz into Your Life. Never to be thought of again. They don't haunt you like the girl you saw few nights ago who you can't stop thinking about. Nope go back to their old group of friends and have the same conversations in the same old bars. It's comfortable which is the most dangerous part. It wasn't until a few months ago that I truly took a shot in the dark. It's weird to look back on it because I look back on it with the same awkwardness as that of a beginning of relationship. I sent a tax that I'd only ever really sent to a girl that I was fond of drinks this week. Rouse what a loser move. What have I become am I that desperate. I mean simply put yeah. I was desperate but it's more than that. Friendships are healthy difficulties. New Friendships may seem you get as much out of friendships as you get out of relationships because they are in fact relationships the uneasiness. I felt sending that message with Russia. Hadn't felt in years. How will he respond? Will he even respond? Did I lead with the wrong question? Does he me? Oh no I messed up. I've really messed up. Yup they are gonNA respond. It shows is delivered but those three dots haven't really appeared yet. Okay just put your phone down. What are you even doing right now? Are you seriously on the edge of your seat because this guy isn't texting you back or go do something to distract yourself? Wait what was that shit? He texted me back. Don't read it yet. You read receipts will look desperate. Keep distracting yourself. Okay fine screw it. See what he said. Yeah I'm all free this week Tuesday. The text reads the nervousness the anxiety the uneasiness. Dha Wishing. Just fast forward. It's all there because for whatever reason making new friends is one of the hardest parts about growing up. You weren't handed. Friendships are put in situations. That are conducive to producing them. Like you were as a kid. You have to be that type of person who you wish could just approach you instead. You have to put yourself out there like it's a job interview or speed date really. It's something that seems insurmountable debilitating at times. That is until it's Tuesday and you have to figure out what the hell you're actually going to talk about as much as we currently miss them. We can all acknowledged that group dinners are an absolute beating. You know Sarah's going to show up late you know. Jeff is going to drink about five more drinks and everyone else and you know. There's going to be that awkward. All right how. Are we giving this up conversation at the end? Yes it's always going to end with someone biting the bullet and tossing the Chase Sapphire Card in the middle of the which means one thing and one thing only then no receipts are about to get doled out like adderall at a Bachelor party money ruins friendships families and businesses alike and even though Venema made a hell of a lot. Easier to pay your dues. There is still some social intricacies that need to get sorted out before Sarah says honestly like how dare she charge me for that. I don't even like it a mommy. The first rule though never request money if not previously discussed there's no worse person in the world and the drunk friend who regretfully buys a round of shots only two toss out a hung over requests for said shots yes then. Mo has created a world of accountability. But that doesn't wash of the stupid drunk decisions you deserve to have anxiety over. I mean yeah. I couldn't afford casts that the patrol shots were going to be fourteen dollars each at the bar either. But that's why I didn't offer to buy if you sit down for a group dinner you have to establish rules early and often take control get the credit card points. Tell everyone yeah. I'll just van Mo- Everyone Jack. There's going to be someone who orders the stake when someone else orders the Caesar. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles a group dinners next fulfill your requests within a reasonable amount of time. No one wants to be the negative. Nancy who has to send a reminder of follow up taxed. If you can't spare the thirty bucks your friend covered for you. You probably shouldn't be going out in the first place. Yes then. Mo Does have a remind feature for your slacker friends. Who Somehow hope you forget that you paid for the group but that should be seldom used. Oh Emily blacked out the night before when you sent it. Yeah you can reminder in the morning bone. It's been three days and she still hasn't paid you for the restaurant Tab. It's time to reassess. What type of person? Emily actually is next up. We have never under any circumstances out of the words. I wasn't working. There's always one in the group then. Mo has a five star rating on itunes based on over nine hundred reviews then Mos acquired by Braintree for Twenty six point two million only for braintree to be fired by pay pal for eight hundred million in two thousand thirteen so I yeah. I'm pretty sure then. Mo has the means to make sure all their customers are able to fire money off to one another. Someone saying my W-a-n-n-a wasn't working just code for. I'm hoping you forget that I owe you this money. Missing a credit card payment is one thing but defaulting on. Your friends is just downright despicable and finally be discreet. You may be buying drugs you may be paying your new secret fling for part of a dinner from the other night. You might have bought a plan. B We know this Van Manos all in a Van. Motza person he'd look similar to Chris for Malta. Santi and that's not a good thing. People are going to be jokesters and put a bunch of emojis their payment descriptions but that draws more attention than simply completing a private transaction. For Your Sake. Adjust your settings only so you and the other parties can see what you're sending using the cigarette needle signify that you paid someone for dinner the other night. It's kind of lame at this point and if you're actually paying someone for cigarettes in needles you're worse than the friend who claims they're van no isn't working if you like what you heard. Today make sure to subscribe review or tell a friend in need about this podcast by subscribing that each every episode gets delivered directly to your phone every Sunday morning you can also follow on. Twitter at Sunday scares an instagram. Which ask Sunday dots carries or you can follow? Me On twitter instagram. It will to freeze and remember to stay home. Wash your hands. Keep a friendly distance. See next Sunday.

Mo Common Ground soccer Sarah Emily Twitter instagram New York Detroit Van Manos Haley Nomin Braintree Santi Bond adderall Chris Russia Jeff
MBA1219 Failed Payments. Are You Leaving Money on The Table?

The $100 MBA Show

11:34 min | 1 year ago

MBA1219 Failed Payments. Are You Leaving Money on The Table?

"One hundred dollars a show powerful business lessons. You can't afford to miss every day with our daily ten minute business lessons for the real world. I'm your host your coach teacher Omar's than Alm. I'm also the co founder of a hundred dollar NBA business training and community online. And in today's lesson. You'll learn failed payments. Are you leaving money on the table? If you run a business with any kind of reoccurring payment, a SAS business a membership site any business the charges somebody on a regular basis monthly annually, even if you have a service recharged. People a retainer every month, you were all too familiar with failed payments, your charging People's Credit cards on a regular basis and sometimes those charges failed because hey, insufficient funds on the card an expired credit card credit card that's been canceled and many of us we have no system in place to recover this. We have no system in place to say, hey, this person failed. Let's make sure that they're paying many of us. Especially when you're starting out when those people fail payment their membership or billing cycle cancels, and you lose that customer in today's will share with you some tools, and some techniques to recover these payments recover these customers, and how after we've implemented this we've been able to recover thousands of dollars every month thousands of dollars that were just giving away because we didn't have this place. This is probably the easiest thing you can do to increase profits in the next month. We got a lot to cover. So let's get into it. Let's get down to business. Support for today's show comes from brother printers. It happens to all of us right before an import presentation the printer runs out of ink. I say, no more brother Inc. Vestment tank printers. Help put a stop to this. And can literally change the way you Inc. With your choice of two one or two years of ink included in box Inc. Vestment tank helps eliminate expense and hassle a frequently buying and replacing ink. Cartridges learn more at changed the way you Inc dot com. Again, that's changed. The way you Inc dot com. The reason why anybody starts any kind of business has reoccurring payments. Whether it's a membership a retainer be software as a service is to have predictable revenue month after month. This gives your company value. It also makes it more lucrative into comes to selling the company one day. But it also allows you to predict you're spending as business born of things that ruin this predictability is fail payments when People's Credit cards fail and even running a business like this for some time. You'll know that this happens a lot more often than what people actually think till they I'm surprised about how many cards fail when it's time to pay their membership. And yes, most of the failures are because of insufficient funds, but sometimes it's an expired card or it's a canceled card where they had a card they lost. They cancelled a, but they really put that card number and expansion into your system, and they just need to update it. Now, the first thing you gotta recognize this is going to happen. This is happening all the time. So you need to prepare for you have a plan. So you can recover. For as much money as possible. Luckily, it's actually not that hard to do this. There are two tools I recommend when it comes to setting this up. And I say set this up is that you need to have an automated system to Email your customers to notify them even within your software that hey, something's wrong with your account your payment failed. And we need you to pay or update your credit card in order for you to have continued service. You can't be chasing these people down annually. This is so hard, especially as you're growing your business. You have your hands and everything so let automation take care of it. Now. Most of these tools were great with the major payment processors like stripe or Braintree arena curly. And basically what it does is it integrates with your payment processor in those wanna payment fails and emails the customer a series of emails instructions to update their credit card. In fact, the a little Email with a link that takes into. Form that can fill right away to update their credit card. So their service can continue. So you can charge them and get that money without the system in place without this automation. You have basically two other options one Ugur all these filled payments and lose out a hundreds or thousands of dollars a month bad idea or you have to do this manually, which means either you're gonna hire somebody to do it. Or you're going to do it yourself. Both are going to be costly whether it's money or time. So the tools I recommend would come to taking care of failed. Charges is one bear metrics metrics is a tool so you can track your business metrics, but they also have an add on called dunning that allows this feature to be in play. I like barometric Salat because it looks gorgeous. And they have a lot of great inbuilt tool. So you can kind of install in your app oil for people update their credit card along with a page that you can link to your Email like I mentioned another tool that I have used an would recommend is stunning stunning is a tool that. Mainly focuses on dunning emails, this automated system of emailing people now with both does whatever you choose you can integrate it with your payment processor stripe. Once that happens. It takes a bit of time for that to happen me about an hour. You're going to set up some emails for every situation. And there are three major situations are payment has failed your credit card is expired or about to expire and one is if you have a renewal that's happening on an annual basis, I recommend this Email series, which reminds him a week in advance that, hey, we're going to renew your account one this prevents failed payment because if they love your service, they love your app, they're going to make sure that hey is my credit card on file Silva. Lid. Is it going to bounce back is going to fail or is it going to be okay? Or they're going to say, hey, oh, I don't want to renew and instead of being charged an asking for refunder doing charge back. You're gonna save a lot of headaches and they'll just cancel beforehand. I know you don't wanna cancellation. But it's better than you actually issuing a refund or a charge back, which is even worse. So I would set up these emails inside. And it's very simple in these software options bear metrics or stunning. But what does does that alerts? Your users in multiple ways inside your Soffer insider membership area, and it reminds them in an Email, and what happens is that. When fails they send them an Email saying, hey, your credit cards failed. We're going to try again tomorrow in one day, it will attempt to process the payment again, if it fails again, again, another Email, and you get set of three to seven emails of to you. Now, what does this from the customer's perspective is that it makes them aware of the fact that hey there count is delinquent and for most adults they have enough money to Ford your service or product they're going to say, oh, I need to pay this Bill. This is outstanding. And they're going to go ahead and do it or another scenario where the card is expired. They're going to go ahead. And update it with a diff-. Card or because unfortunately, people lose their card or there's some sort of fraud that happened on their card. They header place the card they could be like, oh, I completely forgot about updating this car with this account got to do that now. And I find that you can easily recover about fifty percent of these failed payments with these automated emails the other fifty they just failed because hey, the can't afford it or they decided they want it anymore or the intentionally started maybe a free trial knowing their car doesn't have any credit in it, and no it's going to fail. I know that sounds really bad. But that's the reality will happen in the world. But doesn't get the fact that there is money to be saved in by setting up some emails, you're literally going to spend a couple hours to set this up, and you're going to save hundreds of thousands of dollars every month. So even if these services cost like one hundred dollars a month or two hundred dollars a month. Your ROI positive is ridiculous. Phil payments are a disaster without this automation Gaza. Got more on today's topic. Before that, let me give today sponsor. One of the first things you gotta do when you start a business acquire a business address you needed to richer, your business you needed to open a business Bank account, you even needed to register for Email marketing. Yes, you need an address on the bottom of your Email marketing, newsletters, but if you work from home like a lot of us, do you don't wanna put your home address and have your customers show up to your door? And you don't want to spend the extra money every single month, but having a business office. This is earth class mail comes in they hook you up with a swing key business address and all the Milligan sent their get scanned, and uploaded to your count in the cloud. That means you never have to check physical mail ever. Again. You could see it anywhere anytime from your phone or your laptop pretty cool. So cool we signed up we absolutely love it and we've been using cost mail for over a year. Now an earth bus male wants a hook you up with a free month. So you can get started with your business address. Just go to earth class mail dot com slash NBA month and use coupon code MBA month again, that's earth class mail dot com slash NBA month coup. Bon code NBA month. Wrap up today's lesson. If you don't have a system to deal with Phil payments with your reoccurring payments. Your homework is to take care of this right now, you're gonna save so much money. Most of these tools like stunning or bear metrics, they have a free trial. So you're actually going make money before you even have to pay them. So set this up right now. And thank me later because you're leaving money on the table you need to fall with customers. It's your duty to make sure they know, hey, we weren't able to charge you for this month or this year you need to rectify this. So we can continue to give you service and one final make it easy for them to do that you could do that via Email you can put a link you could put a form where they can just fill out their credit card information and hit send an populates updates a credit card information your payment processor, the should be pain free for them. They get an Email. They click link put some information on a form and it's done and with tools like visit confirmation. Hey, everything's cool. Everything's fine. You've been charged. Well, there you have it that wraps up today's lesson if you'll be here hit subscribe right now on whatever useless the podcast with at Spotify or Stitcher, apple podcasts or cast box or anything. We're on all of them by hitting subscribe. You get the Knicks episode downloaded tear device automatically. So it's ready for you. When you're ready to listen that way, you never miss a beat before. I don't wanna leave you with this. There's certain projects earn little things that you do and your business that's going to take a little bit of time investment. But help you in the longer like today's project, they're going to give you a bit of relief in a bit of breathing room. Take the time and put it in your calendar and make this happen. Don't elected. All right. I'll check you in tomorrow's episode QNA Wednesday. I'll check you then take.

NBA Phil you Inc co founder Omar Knicks Braintree arena box Inc dunning Spotify fraud Soffer Silva Ford Milligan
409: Stripe & Streaming with Suz Hinton

ShopTalk

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

409: Stripe & Streaming with Suz Hinton

"For many listening to another corona absurd shop. Talk Show Dave still a house would still zoom kids reprint with Chris. Comfortable isn't that solitary booth. Yeah same old other week in in our in our places. Yeah I'm doing okay. We got a special guest this week. Another kind of crossover show. Because it's I don't know it's one of my favorite podcasts. I know you listen to Dave J S Party We have sous hinton on high sues. Hey thank you so much for having me I actually like again. Fellow podcast hosts slash panelists. Like I've been a fan of shop took a really long time so this is actually really fun to actually ask allied like this. Yeah it's funny because I am actually recording jazz potty immediately after this so that's awesome true crossover episode It's a yeah it's a great show Everybody should listen to that too. It's it's actually literally my favorites tech podcast. Obviously that's not our own 'cause he disqualified immediately. I like the different formats and all that stuff really good. So Suzanne at Stripe right now writes like not super new but a little New York being the just over six months now so that kind of awkward phase where you go from not understanding what the heck is going on at the company to. Oh I think I understand the company now. You know it's that nice sweet spot that have hit finally nice. It seems from the outside. I mean we know a couple of people that strike but I don. I largely don't know anything about the internals stripe but not that feels very admirable company. Like Beautiful Design E. P. Is the developers just a love? You know like I don't know I don't know anybody that like is like stripe gross does is. That is that what inspired you to go there. Is it feel like that on the inside too. Yeah absolutely I was working as a develop rate Kick Stotka Years ago and I was Kind of responsible for that sort of bit way. You Click on a reward if you went back a project and you WANNA reward go along with it and you sort of picking things and then also kind of a big deal. What is that you know? Eventually you got to check out and did some work to do without too right so sort of like the glue and in between you know that that campaign page in the actual checkout and so you know if I went online or went on call sometimes we just had. We had payment things that had literally nothing to do with stripe. It was the way that we would cutting out at checkout and so it had to go and read the Jackson familiarized myself the API. And I was reading the duck. Smells like what is this lovely place that I'm in right now? You know I think that the the biggest thing that just blew my mind was that when I was reading the documentation they put your test. Api Key embedded in the code samples. So you can literally just copy paste and the stuff that you're trying out work and that to me was the single rows like I will never be good enough to work at a place like stripe fit but it would be so good to work at a place where they think about the little details like this so that was sort of my moment and I think that was twenty fifteen twenty sixteen and then I started the job six months ago so you really never know what the future holds. I feel very fortunate. Isn't that incredible? When you when something happens in your life and you think back and I was like cash. It wasn't so long ago where that felt so insanely out of reach. It's true it's exactly that's exactly how it felt. So Yeah I love that little touch though. Yeah looking at docks in seeing you know. Api Code. That is ready to go for for you. Not just for you know generic replace Your Api. He replaced things that are relevant to your account. You know that's like real cool dogfighting stuff you know like what if it like executed to see the results? Maybe it does that too. I don't know but Incredible very cool sounds like. You're you're liking. The job at stripe in the job is deacs. They call it. You call a WHO calls it. That is that a thing. It's a little complicated internally. Actually because we have this organization code developers which means develop audience. Does that make sense because stripe has a bunch of products? They also have the dashboard in. So you can actually administer a lot of stuff without being a Coda these days whereas stripe it originally started just for for developers including so there's no organization co-develop his a different set of small umbrellas in there and so I'm in the development advocacy Section and that has crossover everything from Developer experience products which is like specific tools that are adjacent to oust. Ppi is this a team that works on those. So that's the case The documentation we up tech writers and all sorts of other people underneath the develop his umbrella too so I'm in develop advocacy but that that boundary is quite fluffy and we sort of have a lot of overlapping teamwork with these other teams. Outside of it you know onto the same station. So what would be like a key win for you in this raw like? I don't know you know what I mean like. Should we take this opportunity here on this podcast? Tell somebody about about something cool. That stripe does that. They should know I think so. My job has me riding a different programming language every week. I think that that is. That's like a really good description of how I guess how varied the work is in. So you know. I spent all of January writing go and then just recently gone back to Writing Java script and type script again but some of the things that develop advocacy does specifically at Stripe is We welcome in Engineering blog as well as just like writing the blog posts out you know in other ecosystems such as stepped out to other places We help run out Conference every single year. So we're providing a lot of the really co- demos that showcased new products for stripe We also just Do API reviews. So I I actually prefer my of the tunnel facing rather than the external facing lack of advocacy at stripe and one of my favorite things to do is attend. Api reviews where they're they're basically like Alan meetings with somebody's introducing a new feature of an API or a big breaking change. Something like that and we all sort of have input and talk about some scenarios that people might not have thought of that will have to solve before releasing and things like that and so an example of that is there was a specific thing around Around type support in an estimate. Hey and I very strongly disagreed with them shipping. Certain thing I just thought it was an economic in so I was able to negotiate in the Mi actually on ships that small portion of it and so again it's not supposed to be sparring or defensive or anything like that it's just outpost principles thinking of. How does this feel for the US out and you know? Is it important to us more than the uses experienced to have this specific thing? You know In so that was a negotiation. That happened in. I felt like that was really big win. And so one of my favorite things is just building those relationships internally to in order for us to advocate for develop is because we tend to talk to them on a regular basis lot more than product teams. Get an opportunity to so it helps us Work with us a research. Sort of like Carrie. I guess you know the just. Carry the sort of message back to the product teams. You know Does it help? Does it help when your new? Sometimes you're like you're not you haven't been looking at the same code for so long that you could like see. Api's that are like Whoa. What is that weirdness? This actually it was one of my favorite sort of months that I worked at stripe which was my first month because especially if you're starting in the develop his own they encourage you to do a bunch of what we call friction logs where you go through when you try to implement a bunch of products And then you just write detailed notes. It's literally a play by play. It's just kind of word vomit and then you clean it up but you just wanted to do that so google this and then I ended up at this link. And then I copied pasted this code and then I ran into this era and then he is how I thought about how to solve the era. And you just keep going through and then you end up calling out specific things that you think should be fixed And sometimes you can just go through and pull request yourself if you want And so I really enjoyed that experience a few things that I did when I went through friction logs was I ended up shipping an example APP and a docker container because it took me far too long to set up a customer environment just to run the example APP for example And as well as just like making some changes to other sample APPs As well as like some documentation changes to and like when you're new and you feel that you're actually having an impact on the development experience immediately. That is such a nice feeling and so- Stripe get so excited when new developers stop who haven't had a ton of experience with stripe Like I hadn't touched it since twenty. Fifteen two thousand sixteen so it was very very cool for me to kind of see how the changed for example. Wow well friction log as my favorite new thing. I've ever heard in my life because I'm Gonna I'm GonNa be a friction log consulting. You could be. That's what I WANNA do. It's really fine. It's kind of like penetration testing. But it's like the developer experience. Right you get report yet. It's about what's happening in your mind. You know like ooh logging those little moments of frustration or literally friction. I suppose I I said to dump tweet the other day it was like. I'll pay me ten thousand dollars in I will use your dachshunds zoom with you. I don't know if that's an hour what Let's just pretend as ten thousand an hour just 'cause but like I just I think that's a really valuable service because you know if you're whatever was A big developer service. You know I'm thinking like hosting company now a fire or Azur whoever you know like in or in your developers are getting frustrated. They will be frustrated with your product like eternally and then now you're building bad blood and community disrespect in all the stuff that like your like make it break it is based on the goodwill of your. Api almost right. And and I you know I'll charge. Yeah let me chart altered you money just to ease your docs for you. And I'm pretty good developer but man there times where you just like run into things. I don't get it. What's the I have to install like a hugo or go APP to get this running? I don't understand But yeah there's or like my favorite new one is where it's like Yada Yada Yada. Watch this for our livestream in near like ooh I would. I just don't have the time are webinars like oh it's yeah it's like if you tell me that they better be good. Well it's Tuesday at pm your time you know. So how great. Great great now. It's funny you mentioned that because I I will admit that I get a little bit of free user research out of like sometimes. I'll be going through my twitter feed in the morning and someone announces. They're going to extreme and they going to like integrate stripe into their website. And I'm like I get really excited. Tell everyone at work you. If you do that on twitter morning I'm going to put it in the advocacy channel at work. We're GONNA watch And we will just completely like ghost and look in the background and not help them because we'll just be making furious notes about like. What did they get stuck on in like? Do THEY MAKE ANY MISTAKES? And are they aware that they made mistakes do they do they have confidence? And they integration at the end you know things like that and so that is a little bit of free research that I get sometimes which is very helpful notable. Yeah that's like gorilla research. Usually you have to pay for that. You have to give some starbucks card. We give people shout out in our newsletter will say hey you know Blah Blah you know Mr Jones like implemented striped shirt subscriptions and they did a really great job so we would recommend their approach and then we will call them out in the newsletter and thank them so this episode of Shop Talk Show is brought to you in part by Jetpack. Jetpack plug in for your self hosted wordpress site. I have a bunch of self hosted wordpress sites sites like strikes and I think it's probably the most important plug that I run. It's not a plug in that. Just does one little thing jetpack has just. It's like this huge feature set in each one of those features is super useful. Huge things like it backs up the site can back it up and real time incredible. It will warn you when your site goes down It'll block spam from your comments which is incredible districts probably gets ten times more spam comments than regular comments and largely. I don't see it at all. It'll update your plug INS. It'll add security features. Like people trying to brute force log into your website. It'll allow you to log in easier because it allows you to some single sign on stuff from wordpress dot com. That's the first tab of features from jet pack which is amazing. I think image performance is a super big deal on websites. I just use jet pack raw for images on districts. Even though I'm like an image Nuruddin WanNa like do the best that I possibly can. Repress does such a good job anyway does responsive images. Naturally you flip on the site accelerator feature. And then they're cdn hosted two then. He flipped on lazy loading. And you get that to even browse that don't support native lazy loading incredible image handling just by tongling on a few taps which is amazing their instant search feature which is just launching. They already have a really good thing that you just flip it on. Your search gets way better which I use sense strict and it'll be using this instant search feature which is just takes that feature set and makes it even awesome full page. Search experience with all kinds of Filter toggles and stuff like that. It's going to be awesome now. I've covered the first two types of jetpack in there's four tabs to go so. I'm going to stop there for now. Jetpack for wordpress is awesome. Here's a this is like the ran. The most random thought because I I just did this the other day on our our code pen documentation. It didn't have a left sidebar of all the docs available on and I was just looking at the stripe docks. Which of course has that. But you know who else does every single other documentation thing ever gonNA maybe. It's just a standard thing you know but I think it comes from the idea that we all have like. Vs Code Open all day or any other. That's like the standard developer environment as file systems. Stuff on the left and words on the right things to click on the left things to read. But yeah so I just I just copied it just because there's to me. It's just a little template. Html CSS change. I'm like I'm GonNa do this. It's so stupid that we don't have this every other docs have this. Oh do I have a question for you? About over engineering. A stripe integration as I think this book a thing that we did historically code pen that I like like I think the vibe is that we regret it a little bit so for example like you have customers that pay for stuff you know. That's code WPRO plans in you upgrade to them and then you should be able to within goatman see that see some evidence of what happened and look at an invoice and look at the last four months of invoices or whatever and see when you upgraded and one year downgrade. You have all this information about payment history. That's kind of the point of having a payment writers. They help with that and I think you know. I don't know if it was just historical. What I I didn't lead up the building projects I could ever but you know there. We look at them. And we're like this isn't as good as it could be. You know like we have problems with it once in a while you know. This is a pain in the butt and I think what we did was kind of like. Oh when somebody upgrades or changes plans or something. We're going to write it to our own data. We're going to do all this type stuff that we need to do it. And we're GONNA right all that information to our own database so we have a database that is our like our payment stuff that happened database and lately the VIBE has been like we should just ditch all that like if you wanNA show somebody the their billing history. Just use a stripe. Api give the information on the API and show it on the screen that way. The source of truth is Stripe. Not your own database because things just have a bad habit of getting out of sync for whatever reasons in our database is just a record. It's not like truth. Like stripes stripes never wrong. Maybe maybe not but would you recommend you know. That's a pretty high level weird question. I don't know if it's appropriate or not but like when people build integrations would you suggest like not building your own database to track billing historical stuff just like us the API's directly all the time. Christmas almost like I pay due to say that. Because that's an internal conversation that we're having right now like exactly that and around billing as we realized that in our documentation right now we don't have the best We we really hate being super prescriptive because we realize every business is different at the same time. There is a foundational bunch of common scenarios. Such as this which cup time and time again which we got us about a lot and so is extremely valid question. It's very appropriate And there's several things around this that I can break down. The first is yes. That's an actual concern Because you don't want to do any heavy lifting that stripe can do for you right and so you know. Usually at the minimum. We recommend that you save the customer number which is the customer D- which we give you so that you can then back reference but at the same time we don't necessarily want you to hit the stripe. Api every time someone looks in or wants to look at their account page to get that fresh inflammation right. Because it's it's it's not as nice of an experience for the user because you'll have to go and fetch this stuff and then also just hitting out. Api All the time for that reason is just sorta flight you know. Feels kind of clunky and Awkward? But then you have the problem of as you said just having to cash those things on your own side and then having to make sure that these things stay in sync so what. I can talk about right now. Is that we all working on to try and help with that And the things that you mentioned such as people being able to view the billing history being able to update the payment details and things like that that is something that we're actively looking into right now so Hopefully should be more news about that but also we're trying to come up with a way to be able to give recommendations for people such as yourself without being too prescriptive said that you don't have any foot guns just because you know you had this other educators that we weren't aware of if that makes sense so the biggest thing that I can recommend for you right now is Web Hooks in order to keep your data in sync and so Web folks can be a little bit we had to learn like I. I know that Chris let your like your very established. Knowledgeable develop US would never problem with these Web Hooks can be really great for just being able to listen for when a customer update something and then you can think of back to your end so that you don't have to have all this other you know Really intense business logic and jumping through hoops and things like that Based on the customer's business logic that they are going through that makes sense. Yeah it does. Yeah what books are just awesome period. That's just a nice way to work. I think for any APP. It's nice that you have them. It's a slight non answer for you but I mean at the minimum. You WanNa saw the customer D- But I understand that you also want more information so that you can show somebody that like I want more from the EPA. Unless I have to do some kind of envisioning. Structurally if you were writing this from scratch on day one. You'd have a database that 'cause you need you need a little bit on your side like if you paid plans for a website like if Dave was gonna add pro plans to some drying app you is building the database would have very little in. It would have a customer. Id in what happened whether they're paid or not. And what they're what tier they're on or something but very very little else you know like when they upgraded or you know that's the stuff that gets out of saying in all your database needs to know is like do. I need to show this difference because they're pro or not exactly. Yeah you've just got to think about what the minimum that the user needs to see and then I can implant that logic right so sometimes uses just WanNa see like the last four credit card because they want to look at it and be like Oh. I'd like to new credit card. It has a different number. Do I need to update this account or did I do it last week? I forgot right and so if you could just show them the last fall most of the time unless they've gotten a new expiry data whatever. Bit striped handles load of that for you. Now you know unless they have Like a same cod different expiry date. They can immediately see if they need to update that so just like little store off. Yeah exactly at least what you WanNa do for us Because yes you can actually just like completely rely on strike for that data and just grab it just-in-time for the use of but it's really up to what experience you off of them do people because because now. I'm thinking okay this. This database table has custody and whether they're pro or not maybe even have tears so it's just a Bouillon in the web hooks. Update like you get wet book. Says they're planning expired. Okay the one turns to a zero then and so on my end I can. You know they're the user's experience totally different in my op. 'cause they're not pro anymore. That's all I need. But that's so it's that so little that it makes me not even want to have that table. I I think that would be like next level for striped to be like. You don't have to start anything. You can even ask stripe. If they're pro or not on every page load I mean that might be a little heavy. Api usage like. I think that would be cool as like. I don't have to code any billing anything because it's entirely handled by stripe. It is really nice. I mean unless you have millions of users or looking at once so for example I know that twitch extensions have this problem because everyone will join extension a everyone will join a twitch stream at once and then dot extension just gets hit with massive low traffic because it's like a plug in for the the twitch page right And so you have to throw those things and the reason why that's relevant is because you know stripe. Api limits and so it's approximately one hundred second for read one hundred a second for rights. So if you'll uses we're GONNA LUG in for specific events on Penn. That's when that would fall over right because you're GONNA get a bunch of four twenty nine and we couldn't do it again but I but it is. It's hard to be prescriptive because that's that's a very valid example of why you wouldn't want to hit the API and rely on on it for everything right so script only right or that's not true. Why why would I say that? I just think of it that way because we do everything. We have other staircase on the back end. So it's feels it always feels weird to me to hit a third party. Api from server side Code in real time you know then the page. The document yeah. It's just load until. Yeah here's a hard one for your like this is Not Hard but this is just like I'm code pen clinic with strife. Yeah but then I'll stop. We should talk about other stuff but I just. I need some advice here. So here's this is the one that's like less. You know you probably get it all the time but we'll see On point we're decided. I think we're leaving money on the table by not offering paypal as a payment method to users because I think there's certain users and this was kind of a yes there's certain users out there that just like they don't have pay pal screw it. This is a lot of years ago so I don't know times have changed. Or what but decided. Oh we gotta have that you know in braintree is a competitor of stripe that offers the same kind of stuff. But they're like oh brains. Are you gonNa this amazing you can apple pay and you get credit cards stuff too. It's like you should use an in their owned by pay pal if you want good pay pal. Api's the trick is to use braintree. But the second you do that you really complicated your billing workflow like a lot. Now you have to payment providers you have to deal with any of two sets a web hooks and the API's are not going to be the same. They're going to be weird and you're writing middleman stuff and I don't know that's another predicament. Orient like it's not terrible but it's certainly like it's not twice as hard. It's gotta be ten axes hard of a to deal with two of those things. So do you have like General Advice? You Shell out around. That is like stripe for pay pal coming probably not. I don't have a lot to share on this topic. I totally empathize. That is absolutely an issue so we striped US support apple pay and go pay. It's like as you mentioned like braintree also supports that. It's just that we don't support pay pal so that is likely to be like your actual reality that you just described there. Yeah yeah a big deal just curious because it does it makes you like are is the question is. Are you actually leaving money on the table? If you don't support something like paypal or is that just bs or is there never an answer to that because it totally depends on what your audience is and what they care about billing? It's more complicated. Let's see it's just like a one off donation or something you can just throw the payback. Nana as like Ambala whatever and try to see and do do a test to see how many you get but short of actually Like re implementing all of that just to try it and then only have to get stuck with managing that if you got like three payments and now you feel like that's grandfathered in because those people are going to be on those payments wherever it is a really tough problem to solve because you don't know right whereas other payment options such as like. Let's say you're on striping. You WanNa take the apple payback's you wanna take the Google payback's then you WANNA tic XYZ country. You can just kind of trial that country and it doesn't actually cause any extra work for you. You know what I'm saying but the the patient should definitely causes that extra work for you because you are actually writing the courage implemented. I really though I like that advice of like just like as a as a test like make it available but not for real like just with the. This is a little like pay now button where it's I don't know. Maybe it's only your annual plan or something and he can do that. We could be a little bit naughty. And I'm not actually recommending this but I know that There is a practice in the industry. I'M NOT NECESSARILY RECOMMENDING. It with people will just put a button and then it will just go to A. It'll have quick modal saying sorry. That's not available right now with something and then you just see how many times people click on it for the user. So it's a little controversial but it's just like doing a little bit of research to to see like how many people Ed and it is. It's it's not. I don't think whatever there may be some degree of scratchiness to it but let's set that aside for a second. What it doesn't do is like. Let's see actually super like that's just their first instinct is to click that thing but like why would they have upgraded or not? You know what you want to know. People that can only pay that way or that would add that absolutely. Walk away if the if that's not on the table because we can look at our numbers now and be like. Hey it's X. percentage pay pal and y percentage stripe. So that means if we got rid of paypal that X. percentage is gone. That's not true because I'm certainly. Some chunk of those people that pay with people would have paid some other way. They just chose not to because we equally support. Both you know. Yeah well I have a lot of just. We do chopped account the paper like I have a lot of like you know. Kind of fluid cash that discretionary income. Just like like. Oh I want keyboard. Guess what am I Baby Bell? Okay you work you know it's like So I I'm probably in that camp with wanted to just Just use people. Because that's where all the money's already at but I I'm I'm also in that. Like oh like they. Click the upgrade. Been there probably like they don't care you know they got the credit card anyway. They just want to come out the right amount every month. That don't really care. Which are the real answer is for Striping? Pay Pal to just be super friends. Gather all the data over stripe all the API's worked SAN IS GONNA be great. That's coming next year. Just kidding. It's totally not them. Sure but there's this new standard as X K C D Right. There's this new standard that we're all working on and that's GonNa be the one that say l. That's exactly I don't don't even contribute to the news. New Stuff's going to be here. Only sub shop like show is also brought to you by ex team. That's ex- dash team dot com slash shop talk. Show extreme allows you to work from anywhere for the world's leading brands and get supported to do more of what you love as a developer. Maybe haven't heard of team before. Extreme is one hundred percent remote company that helps companies scale their development teams by providing them with extraordinary teams of developers from around the world. They believe in living a life of freedom that allows developers. That's you to spend more time getting energized. By your passions they fostered a unique active lifestyle and culture around this idea that continues to attract thousands of developers to apply everyday ex team. Is the most energizing community for developers in the world. What separates team from their competition is the level of attention and care they give to their developers they proactively support them from their learning and growth and catch them in roaming hacker houses around the world. Then give them a remote environment that motivates and inspires them on a daily basis where other companies simply place and dropped their talent they foster and cater to their unified team of developers centered around the same beliefs values and lifestyle so check out teen if you'd like the chance to work with big brands like Rankings Fox Broadcasting Kaplan Inc coin based speech body more you get to live and work in one of their roaming hacker houses ex post they call them around the world changes locations monthly allowing you to explore and work remotely knows beautiful locations you got to take part in adventures share passions and learn how be a better remote developer. You'll get to take part in one of the most energizing community for developers in the world by participating in their seasons three month. Experience filled with challenges rewards games competitions more all centered around a theme that will inspire and energize. You and you get twenty five hundred dollars per year to spend on doing more of what you lobban staying. Energize use it on. Conferences Courses Video Games photography equipment and Mar. So if you're a developer is looking for a chance to try out remote work. Visit EX DASH team dot com slash shop. Talk Show and find out more or thanks to ex team for sponsors episodes or shop talk show can we talk about streaming for a year into that right? Yeah we can talk about What is your like. Why are you into it? What do you do there and told me about streaming period? Yeah I think it was twenty sixteen. I saw my friends Nolan Lawson stream himself working on patch. Tb and she is like huge open source library I contribute open source libraries to but very very small S. M. O. L. and They don't they don't have a huge US base but the very useful to the people who use them. Does that make sense? It's like the quality over quantity rather than quality and quantity And so I was so fascinated watching him. Maintain Open source. Because I was like. What is it like to have really stressful project? I wouldn't even know what that was like In so I loved watching that and I said to him. People always feel intimidated about the hardware. Sdk's that I write. And that's mostly what I ride a especially was at the time but I'm just writing Java script the end of the day like do you think of streamed this people would like the penny would drop in. They would get it and then they would want to maybe contribute and like or they would not put me on a pedestal as much because I really do enjoy that. And he's like yeah. You'd be surprised. I think he's comment was literally. You'd be surprised at what people would watch. So he did a stream ominous. And let's keep let's keep it just about development but yeah it was very very funny comment and I thought well you know I don't. I'm I'm definitely a home body. I don't do a lot on the weekends and so I thought well what if I just Turn a Webcam on us. A pair of apple head apple headphones. Just do it and I like rehearse it the night before and it was like I can't make a single mistake and I'm going to have everything perfect and things like that And it was really fun and I had like nine people I think. Join and that's because I put it on facebook in a bunch of social media so it was really my friends and family just like going along with it to make me feel better right But it kind of grew from there and it became much more about why I initially did it. And you know I I don't know hosted anymore but I have a sophisticated setup that just allows me to record in garbage. It's very cool. I I will say. You're one of my favorite streamers You're in the chill stream. Camp is chill stream. You're not like project. Yeah it's great but one thing I always cite about your stream is you're doing open source right but but I feel in. Maybe maybe it's my fault that like maybe I. I have to go do something else on Sunday mornings or whatever but I feel like a lot of your stream is just like managing poll requests like a like you do spend about a good hour of the two hour streamer with our lung. You do it like just looking over. Pr's and I think that's really awesome for two reasons like that's open source like I think people think it's this glorious like lane code like yeah just just bashing it out. I wrote a script to write code for me. You know but you're is like it's like okay let's see so this is the PR this okay. Yeah that looks good and then you just merge it in just a bit like like. I think that's awesome and And I feel like you really harness like good source maintainers ship And I think I just I find that very wonderful. Thank you voted in mostly or all. Is this open source. Maintenance is that the spirit of the stream I think Dave is Dave clearly watches my stream like I totally believe exactly what it's like. We also have like twenty minutes of Chitchat. Getting where like. What did you do this week and like look at this cool swag I got here In look at this cool website that I made but other than that. Yes that's actually being the evolution so the delightful thing is you know. I started the stream because I want people to be less get about perhaps contributing and now I actually just have so many contributions that happen and what I mean by so many is you knew like two or three a week which is enough to fill an entire hour of looking at stuff right in explaining it and understanding the code may be pulling down in Mexico testing at in in some people will open it on Saturday night. 'cause my stream is on Sunday morning and I'm like I see what you did that you'll sort of get money in the right. You're queuing it up on the show. I love so it. Didn't I actually used to just predominantly write code for two hours and now I do much less than that because other people are writing for me And so that's actually really fun. And then if I'm not managing requests sometimes I'm getting issues of actual bugs and then we just sit there and laugh at my buck like I'll say oh. I know exactly what this is. Let's let's pull down the road. Let me show you and let let me show you the exact that this is happening. That four years ago that I knew would eventually be a problem. Now it is right and so we also just like make fun of past mistakes and then we have this lovely kind of chill satisfying feeling of fixing them as well so I would agree that these days it's less me like he not turning out like code like beasts mode if that makes sense like much as I roll my eyes at that. It's more about the collaboration side of things which I didn't expect to happen but that's been a nice accident. You heard it here Sunday Mornings watch Sunday morning entertainment. I mean a for me. It's hard because like kids in whatever you know. It's interrupted time at that time. But it's like just very like cool just because it's it's just hey this is just. This is good vibes. And it's like the. I don't know you'll do some stuff about like I feel like you do some because it's all hardware and we should probably say that too. It's not just a coding stream. It's like coating javascript. Four are doing knows. Basically right. Is that We're also interested in. Why Watch and I have tons of questions But I like I I think that. Do you find it hard to like show kind of. What are we doing? Like on your stream like you know because now you just physical. It's not just code. It's like I'm trying to get this light to show up. Yeah sometimes that happens. I do still get comments to la in chat Because like twitch has like a live chat you can ask questions if people haven't actually seen a livestream before and people will say. I have no idea what you're doing but I'm happy to watch and so that to me says that it's still still kind of like a breakdown of understanding that you know. I usually if I'm running anything analogy Noel hold it up to the Webcam. Have a second. Webcam because I'm trying to explain what's happening And I do have some chat. Macos that that if people say what is this library or what is it do? I can just like do a quick little command. It will do an explanation for them so that we don't have to like drop everything But it's still hard to I. Guess communicate that. Virtually if that makes sense and for those who haven't ever really For those who even familiar with concepts such as Like input output pins which is totally like. It's it's very normal to not be familiar with that stuff if you never have to touch hardware just explaining that on a basic level requires a lot of backing up in You know talking about binary and things like that which is really interesting. Is there a good start point for like getting into like programming chips with Java script? I I have like one of those. Whenever sparked kit inventor are doing now or whatever. It's pretty cool or spark is that what it is. Yeah And I'd like it and I all the but it's more like that's more like a is a Java based or something but it's like you're typing like more C. Code style stuff or we code but I WANNA write Java script on these things. So how do I get started into that? Realm of hardware Yeah the good thing is that the ecosystem is so widen in lodge varied. Now that you can get away with doing that. Quite a bit There are a couple of options for you. You can buy a micro controller. That's able to run javascript. So for example the tussle is one of those the tussle to runs. Lennox end. You per gram on your regular computer which is nice because you have your whole. Id set up in all of your stuff. Then it can just deploy that code over to Tesla to Which is really fun. It's small enough that you can pretty much pull off most projects. I think it's a better out of the box. Experience a row three pie. You know people say. What's the difference between a Ross replied a tussle that Tesla's just specifically very good at running javascript for you and it doesn't do anything more and you know it's the abstractions are a little bit better The other option you have is if you're comfortable learning. Loa which is very similar to Java skipped There's a bunch of boards out there that can run. Lewis such as Expressive expressive like I. F within expressive. Yes yes it's expensive. Is that more work from the world I live in? I would think everybody just wants the javascript board but as it is that language just as popular or more in this world. You have like a so if you have an ESP. Eighty two sixty six. That is a bunch of numbers and lettuce. But that's a very common my control that you can actually Put Lou on And so I was trying to find the the different brands that actually make that a little bit. Easy of but People prefer that just because the border a lot less expensive so if you go to Ali Express super discounted Webster like that you can get those things for five bucks and they have like all the pin breakouts and everything that you would want but you you don't have to like and there are a lot smaller too so if you have a really small project you wanna be able to like Do a lot in a small little footprint. They can be actually a better option for you just more resource constrain than not running. Lennox and you'll code Depending on like the architecture is either actually running low with an interpreter. Or it's actually compiling down to a totally different thing like it could be compelling to assembly instead so that's wild so the Tesla who does run Lennox in ESP. Eighty two sixty six. That's kind of how it is. It's basically like what do you want your abstractions to be. What do you want your size to be in? What's your budget? It's just like every other tool that choosing right. It's like what are your. What are your hobbies variables when you want and I think the hottest thing toddler is that this so many things that you don't necessarily know what questions to ask. Can you know what you want So what's helpful is finding someone such as me just like case through the the basic questions And then give you a recommendation. Okay can I. Can I pitch an idea this was going to be my whole friggin retirement startup? Here's here's my idea. Can you help me? I Want I want our doing. That's connected to the Internet. And whenever somebody assigns a get hub issue to me. It'll thermo printer will print out a ticket almost like a short order cook so every time I get assigned an issue I get a little piece of paper. That's like. Hey you got an issue in. I rip it off and I pin it to one of those spinney the with the spring on it. Yeah with the the spinning. What's going on there? What do you got there? That's something you have built yet so I have a similar now that I'm actually holding up so there's listening at home more and actually see that we're on chat and You can actually do this in the browser now if you wanted to. You could have a back end. Java scrip- Web Hook that does that for you and there's like this really good Not J S Thumb Libraries. Out There Thelma frontal every day but you can also do it in the browser. Still like I did like a Gameboy Camera Gameboy Emulation now emulation like a a Web version and you can actually Connect to one of these them apprentice with the Bluetooth. Usb and you can use web So absolutely you can do that right now. Interesting okay. We'll have to get the skew their on thermal printer and So in your house you could just like glued to the wall. It's gone Wi fi so it was sucked up to your router. I guess it. How does it just because it has wi fi? Does that mean it's also can? Does it take a Web Hook? Then or how do you like it? It doesn't have wi fi but this is why you could have You could get one of those. Espn two sixes. Basically set up an access point and a Web Hook on it. And then you just send the string that you want to print That would be very quick but again Bluetooth and USB tends to be quite common you might be able to find Wifi one which makes it way easier but it's hot into lock down security computer to could you make one. That's computer independent It's going to depend most of the time you need at least like a raspberry Pi or something like that to Volker taxi. Do the connection for it by. Have you seen the Rip Lots of tears about this. But did you ever see the bug? Little cloud little printer. I forget where it so it did come out in the like kind of win away is that I mean how do I set up some really hot? Because they they. They cuss a lot of money and Feedback cycles very slow. So you have to keep that money and your runway going for a lot longer than suffer sat up so That one unfortunately went down. I did have one in what it would do. Is You would subscribe to feeds such as you know. I want to do daily poem today or I want the weather and then it would print you out a little report every morning and it was the cutest thing ever and you could send each other pitches to and it would just print the pitch out and it was the best thing And he had a little modem plugged into your route and that was basically the little computer that would securely talk to the print very similar setup to that. If that makes sense it does so it. Somebody could have bought this thing. Who doesn't have a computer at all and still make it work. May maybe it was the most adorable thing ever and they ended up open sourcing back end cloud server so people have gone and re implemented it and hosted it and they little prentiss a living on which is adorable. That said that it's a cool. You are L. Too LITTLE PRINTER DOT COM and it just spins and spins thought. He just didn't even renew the domain name. Sad it's a door -able frigging. Dorothy could descend daily puzzle as the best and then it would stop it. Would prints like the paper would go behind this face? Silhouette cut out in every time it stopped printing it would print the face and then feed it through so that the face was showing again on the printout. And that was it's like it's just the details in a was so beautiful that yes it did actually make me excited about them apprentice. That's why I went out and bought up playing with them for years. Ever since man I wonder yeah I just I want this I want I. I would love to live analog side of things you know. Just that's that 'cause like I feel like specifically with like macy's or whatever maybe this is a good figure Stream too but like you know it's like when it's all digital. You're just like dude. I don't know which issue is that. What was that. I have no idea but I don't know we'll thing little. Qr Code to the issues on now. This is the kind of not that I absolutely love. It's like little tiny augmentation that I prefer those kinds of things I would also recommend ate. A fruit has like a clone. They have like a diesel version. Didn't obviously reference Kit with Plastic and you put assembled printed in to make it look prettier Yeah if you go eight of fruit. Ada Are you it They have like a couple of kits in they have to toil. That walks you through it. And if it's just python Swap that out for Java script if you want but they have a Lotta Python libraries that they do for that kind of stuff. That's cool onto a Try TO YEAH HERE. We go all right. I'm just going to get the old critic so no no. No no paid saving blacks. Yeah they should be able to have diop. I thought that'd be cool to have pay with striped button where it was like your stripe account not like a credit card. Thanks Stripe bucks is like a jerk. We have internally bucks then So we just have a little time left to be interesting to you. Are you know it was six months at at at stripe now and and two and a half years or something like that Microsoft before that also deacs you've mentioned kickstarter before that bounced around us a lot of big places but yeah at one point. You're like just straight up front end right and now ex yeah. I was a front end developer for twelve years in would just have to inherit different back in languages as I went along too. Because you know let's be real like a front developed a still has to edit ruby sometimes and things like that so yeah I was in then I just kept being promoted tech Lido promoted to like be quote unquote responsible went on the team and it was mostly because I was just angry that we went focusing on the user or I was just angry that like this. Is this medicine our experiences developers. But we're actually making Autan West for the USA by choosing protecting ourselves in this case. Not just get angry all the time I WanNa fix things and whenever I went on run or on coal I was like yes. This is my time to fix the things that I wasn't allowed to fix And so that made me think maybe develop advocacy would be better for me because I. I'm clearly passionate about this. And maybe I will feel like I can actually have a better impact by. My job is literally to be persuasive about this stuff full-time And so that's why I wanted to try doing that. Because you know just the worst feeling in the world to me is when someone tries to run one of my libraries and it just blows up immediately and then they blame themselves and I just want people to not feel like that so that was sort of why moved. I just got so outraged by just this navel-gazing that that sometimes develop his do And I felt like I was the only one on the team that was actually thinking the fact that we were shipping. Something to use. They're the ones that are important. You know and I'm not saying that everyone's like that but it was just a common theme that I was the out layer on every team who was like getting furious about this stuff and now you're at a company that has friction logs so I guess you win. It's like the best feeling. I can't even tell you how good it is when people like. Yes we want you to tell us and also if we don't have time to do it you can just go ahead and request and we'll accept it and I'm like He. Has this feel so good as wonderful? Well speaking of not having time and now we have some hard stops here another hard stop edition of shop. Talk so I we should wrap up but thank you so much coming on at this is such. I Dunno this. The sticks Boxes I stuff I wanted to talk about and But for people who aren't following you and giving you money and they don't worry about giving me money. I think that I'm in a very privileged position being being a developer but You can definitely find me online Through one basic social media handle which is no up cats. You can call me newcast as well. It doesn't really matter how you pronounce it. But that's N. P. K. A. T. All right in a twitch stream. Sunday mornings If you're still doing that I see and change but Sunday mornings on twitch there you go And you can do bits. Bits of will cool all right. Well thank you very much. And thank you for downloading this in your pocket or twist. Be Sure. Start FAVORITE UP. That's up you'll find out about the show on twitter. Asha pretends to a month if he job ever shop talk. Show dot com slash jobs and get a brand new hire people like you and Chris. Do you have anything else you'd like to say. I'm not show DOT com.

developer US Stripe Dave J apple google Chris braintree Wi twitter New York corona Nuruddin WanNa Jackson starbucks
Ron Affsa, HPO -017

Profiles in the American Dream

24:57 min | 2 years ago

Ron Affsa, HPO -017

"Welcome to the profiles, and the American dream podcast, Tim KO, but twenty years ago, I wrote a book with the same title as his body. The book explored enormously successful businessman from my hometown masks uses their trajectory, she had some common characteristics including humble beginning. Writable vision overwhelming struggles in deep well of perseverance and in the ad success beyond the wildest dreams each my new gas. We'll all have stories at Justice treating if not more. So join me as we engage entrepreneurs from many different fields of work unlocking this secret and Spiring people across the country, the dreams too can be chief please download and subscribe to this podcast. And let me know what you think by leaving a rating and review. Welcome to profiles, the American dream in this episode. Tim kale before we go into the episode? Let's not forget that. And in this episode. I'm joined by Ron Agfa, the owner and operator of hair place. One welcome to the show. Ron, thanks. Tim have me so here place one how'd you get into the salon business Tump? Tell me about the family history about the business and how you specifically decided that that was going to be a future. Well, Tim, it wasn't a grand plan of any sorts. Most of most of them, aren't that's the good news. Most people don't plan it when they go. And especially when they're going to business from stuff that happens. But every story is unique about how it happens. Well, well, the way the business started years ago going back to Boston was my dad. Russell his brother Edward started. Russell Edwards ES LAN. They were on the little building on the corner, Trenton boylston street in town right above the Brigham 's were there, they had forty four cutters working from it. They decided to come back to Quincy father's roots. Were and my uncle was in Braintree. He took over the Russell Edwards name. And we started as Russell Edwards here place one. We eventually dropped the Russell Edwards, and we're here place one. Now, we're actually transitioning to HBO we don't like hip place one anymore screams eighties too much to really H P O H P O going with that really interesting. What year? Did you start? Your father ankle start the business nineteen fifty four. Okay. And were they train barbers or his style style. It worked for Frank Zona at the time. He was the biggest Salonen Boston. Okay. He had a great salon. My parents. My parents my father, my uncle both got into the business with him as shampoo, boys. Okay. Moved up through the ranks, and then they opened up their own salon. Really interesting. Now franc-zone never heard that were delauro guy. And all the folks still his grandson still have big salons in Hanover. Very big slot. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Interesting. So fifty five they come to Quincy what year and open on t seventy two and where was the shop? And Quincy cottage avenue. Okay. All right, next to the old strand theater. Right. All no, no, no. That's the other. That was the second location. Okay. That was the strength that it was on Okada Javan, which is right down the street across from the fours, basically. Okay on finer cut is. Being taken down. Now the memories come back. Okay. What year was that seventy two he transitioned. He kept us Alon in Boston. And then he wanted to get in Quincy. So we opened that one for about two years ago to decent following. And then we purchased land on just not streets at street. Right. And you know, it was history there we had big following in Quincy back in the eighties. So when was chestnut street open because that's when I remember opened in seventy eight. Okay. All right. Seventy seven seventy eight okay in the hippy dippy, seventies air and crazy air and stuff. So that's when the guys would come in for perms that was a big thing. Really? I can on rather rather never mean, my brother and brother-in-law were Guinea pigs once and boy, they they will give my father hard time for many years that I remember on seven guys will come in with best friend Brian Kelly. The match stalk. They call them red hair and Herman. He has never lived it down ever since you know, when did you get into the business? Well. You always been in the business. Well, yeah. Well, I was getting in trouble as a youngster. So my dad decided every day after school and Saturdays at I was going to work at the salon. Okay. And I was Janet of the building. Okay. For from about seven three grade on I've my only job of ever had. Although I did cut onions in the morning. Tony's clamp shop. Okay. You know, the family another family business from onions to hair early. Honestly, Tim, I'm not gonna lie. I didn't have colleges beaten down my door. There wasn't much to do. So it's kind of fell into the family business was never thought. I work there in school. I worked there after school. I graduated hit us in school before. I graduated high school really went nights feel beauty academy. My dad gummy going, and he taught me everything. It wasn't the schooling. Right. I've been here since I never really gave it much thought. It just happened. You know, he's talking to our previous interviewer Sarala was rain. Get your early students. Basically, she we talked a little bit. About the process of getting licensed and everything and it's pretty intense. It really intense. It wasn't intense back in the day when over there too or is simple. Nope. But I went to school cost me seven hundred and fifty dollars than I took a test that took all about three hours. And then you wait for your license in the mail. And that was it a lot hotter. Now schooling's twenty thousand dollars now. Really? Yeah. No. It's a lot our Sarah saying thousand hours you have to put in and then then you can you have to at least another thousand apprenticeship in us along. Yeah. So you started out. So this was in the seventies late seventy early. I graduated his school in eighty one or early eighties, and you started and you went in there, and you went so you're his style. It's not a barber. Okay. How many people were in the shop at that time? Well, we consistently always have about twenty cutters. Twenty right now. We're at twenty one a shop. Yeah. Very big shot is okay. When did you take? Oh, I think in the mid nineties. My dad moved down to. Florida and me, and my sister kind of took it over my sister. Then moved. She went to Florida than I was all alone running it. Okay. Okay. Which I liked. Yeah. So we talk a lot to a lot of entrepreneurs some of them who started the business of more second generation like yourself in some third generation as they had earlier today. Neither way is easy. And no ways in other way, because there's unique challenges both with starting a business from scratch or taking over the family business. What's the biggest challenge you face in terms of making it your own place? And but also keeping the tradition because you've got family and the business, and you don't want to disappoint you dad. Mom and stuff to same time. Trench change business changed the world changes over change with it. Correct. You know, you could be well, you know, I was when I took over. I just did everything the way my dad did it yet. No. And I never questioned. Why I did it? I just did it because this is the way it's supposed to be done. I think the challenges I'm facing. Now is now that I'm older, I'm not the same age as my employee's. They're younger they're in the twenties early twenties. So there's a disconnect between me and them now had before. And I've learned a lot from my son my son, he's doing well. He's went to BC. Hi babs. And now he's working for new in New York for NBC, and I'm letting him open my eyes to a whole new management style. Okay. Managing millennial. Yeah. I'm not do as I say anymore. Like, I had a certain challenge with an particular employee last week. So I was giving her I wrote down a text. Now. My protocol is send it to my son have him clean it up and send it back out. But you know, what the response is is much better. I'm getting the feedback. I'm getting from my employees because I'm a kinder gentler on now. Okay. Dealing with the millennials. You'll find that to as I say in the hardnosed boss were doesn't work anymore. Okay. My dad would have to adjust his right where it's incredible. And for a long time. I was fighting Tim. I was I'm like, no, this is the way I do it. So he always done it, especially when you go up in a busy with everything in the business. Certain certain things would just done a certain way. And now, I look back certain things like raise my prices in November. Now, not January first, and it just makes much more sense January. First is when people are watching the credit. Cards. Correct. It's right after Christmas, the it's very tight now in I always did it because the first the end, that's when you go up on the prices right now, you do it in November. You get bigger bang for your buck. Those two months of very busy yet. Right. Right. And people aren't watching the credit cards much. No one complains as much at that time than they do on the first of the year. And like I said, I get a bigger bang for the buck. I guess into Taliban. It's all the same. It's one year. Right. But it just seems like when I put that raise and I get less free from the clients. They don't seem to see it as much it's such a people business, and it's not a quick people not serving coffee and grabbing lunch and family can going out and haircut stays with you for the next six weeks five weeks, and it's very personal you've been dealing with that for a long time. And you've got twenty people twenty one people working for you. So it's not just you. It's how they do it. What is the hair place, one style culture? Well, what did you had people that have been there forever? You have customers longtime. I have I have one employee. That's in her fortieth year with us really, I five employees over thirty years, and I have about six or seven that had been twenty years. So we joke around some the girls been with a six or seven years of the newbies. Yeah. So we create a culture of people like it here. It's not high stress. It's very relaxed. I hate to say it, but you can get a great haircut. You can get a great collar most lawns. What I like to say. Is the experiences. What brings them back is. We want to give them a great experience in place one. Yeah. Sorry at HBO. You had to move from this location ten years ago. It's been ten years eight years ago. Okay. You building was you was tell us the story because that's traumatic. I mean, you were institution. You're on the corner firm almost three decades. Right. We own the Bill we own the Bradford building that was you know, just a couple of doors away from can't checks have ever heard of that. I do. Yeah. I remember. Well, we were there. I grew up in that building literally grew up. In the building. I remember the blizzard of seventy eight me, and my brother going getting away there shoveling away and just so we could shovel coal into that building to make sure that he I grew up there to sell it was you know, I I had to sell it. Right. You know, businessess at that point when the building was getting taken down. It was it was it was sad for me at one point. They had all fenced off. And I remember looking down in the ditch. And I see one of my mother's astrology books and the bottom of the did real. And that just hit hard to me, you know. Yeah. But you gotta move on yet. And that's can be traumatic not just for you and your but your customers to now they used to go on late. So you move to another location Quincy and that worked out. Well, it worked out so well, we were just a stone's throw away from where we were. Right. And then I added, you know, we alleviated the whole parking headache of gray into Quincy's. Correct. So we really we only lost maybe some walk ins from the stop and shop building across the street. Maybe some of those we didn't really lose a whole lot. When we gained a lot more. So the. Move is sad as it was him. Was it was just a great move for you own the building your now nano, we're just rent, and you know, it was funny. I didn't wanna be landlord anymore. Okay. I was sick and tired of it but Hewitt done since. You're right shoveling that I just wanted to pay Renton call the landlord whenever I had a problem. And that's what I'm doing now. Although I wish I did own a building. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did you did we good which is good? So we talked about the unique challenges of the millennial generation, which is both not just your your workforce. But also the people your clients clients. You know, it's probably intuitive to think that young people know, what young people want how much of what did giving you comes back and forth instead of it being the boss employee thing, these young people, I know from my experience, you have to empower them, and you'll have to actually they know how to engage with people and how to connect with people and stuff much of that takes place on a daily basis on in in your interactions with people where they are actually giving you ideas for stuff that you hadn't thought about happens everyday. Yeah. Everyday around these young people, I was on a repeat myself, but I was headstrong on how I used to do things before. And I'm gonna say in the last couple of years when my son I'm going to give them all the credit has broken down. And I see things differently. And I'm seeing the I'm seeing the results better the results, I'm getting more out of my workforce in my new management style. My kinder gentler. Ron it's working. Yeah. It works. I mean, businesses good as it's ever been. And we I didn't think would ever. Get to where we were in the eighties with the clips it we're doing fantastic price. Oh, so it's more than just the work. Styler is that the old is at the most. I think it's a combination of me starting to say these are the employee's. And these are the clients I have to deal with target audiences seventeen to twenty five years old when I'm when I'm when I'm advertising that too. I'm going after right? So I have to speak their language. Yeah. And social media is a big part of that which you have people to do media for you. That are not stylus. Yeah. I have I have contracted out. Actually, a friend of my son's another bad plan grad. He's a big social media guy out in Boston. He does a whole lot of big fronts, but he does us on the side. Okay. And he anytime I want anything on social media sent him a text, all my employees, all the girls have his phone number. So when they do a good before. And after boom, they go right up to him. And he words at nicely presented very professionally looks great. I've seen looks before. I used to manage play. And it was just so sloppy. Well, and it's so many. Stylists and salons out the, you know, you have you know, it's a great business for like Instagram because you face 'cause you have Votto of and Sarah told me, they don't mind being sharing the love it. You know? It's flattering. Yeah. That's and you get him at the supposedly best point, which I got I have spent a couple of bucks on lighting and backdrops just for the before. And you do that you do that with every whatever it also gives you a record. And it's great for the style of it gives them a put volume. Exactly, exactly exact-. How do you keep your best people from us told us earlier about people in their forty years twenty years, obviously, you want to keep your good ones? So how do you incentivize people? How do you? What is the secret sauce? Do they not want this? No secret sauce, just treat everyone fairly in look them in the eyes when you talk to them and and don't have alterior motives at be transparent with them. What you expect from them? What what they expect from you and just be fair with them. And that's what I found is the best way. My dad taught me to keep doing. That's one of the things for my daddy. Keep doing. Yeah. Give me an example of how the industry's changed since the eighties and two thousand sixteen whether it's a style or something that you probably never would've expected to see when he started out in this business, even like ten years ago while I mean, one of the biggest things is there was a big secrecy between clients information and the owners and the style. Okay. Now, speaking social media, it was we had triple triple passwords for people to get into find clients phone number or California Perm formula because that was sacred to the business if. Stylus wanted to leave and take that information. It was it was hurtful, right? But with social media now, it doesn't matter. It's all all friends with everyone. Everyone of my clients is friends with their style is. So they leave this no way. That's that's the biggest difference. I don't even know passwords on my computers anymore. There's no need to need firm. Interesting in Geno, something like that. Makes you really focus on to happiness if you're willy can't I can't control them. I can't keep them here. I just make them wanna stay here. Yeah. You know, what I tell them is. I have all the tools in place for them. All they need to do is add hot work. Just add work. My motto. Yeah. Everything's here for you. We have support being technically color, we have supportive. You're gonna be out sick. We have someone taking care of your clients alone calling clients we I've been in business so long that I have I have system. Yeah. I I've seen everything nothing surprises me anymore. And I joke around that. I now I knew business going on. So I haven't been around here place one as long as much. Anymore? So and it's funny. We've broken a couple of records. So the girls have said, maybe you'd better stay away. And I said, no, I've created a well oiled machine. What created? Yeah. We talked earlier in an earlier interview the importance of product and having relationships with the manufacturers distributors and stuff tell tell our listeners about that world because what we see most of the scissors, and we see the physical pieces color and stuff, but there's obviously a science to multi billion dollar industry. What we've done is. We used to have four or five different products. And it was great. We had all the top lines. And we could recommend anything for anyone. I found we kinda lost away with too many products. Okay. What I've done have become a concept salon. We have one product, and we deal with one distributor one manufacturer. And it's J Beverly Hills. Okay. We've been exclusive which Beverly Hills for about three years. Years now, and it's just been fantastic. They've sent us out to LA four times if ten at least sixteen in my stylus out there for training for appreciation. We would just read us. We just allows weekend for the new liquid launch of their color. You don't get that. With manufacturers if you just have a little piece of their business. Okay. I have all my eggs in J beverly's basket. Right. But I like to say, I'm a big fish with them. And the what gets kicked back to me is so valuable to my staff, and hey, my staff always wondering who's the next one gonna go to LA and j Beverly Hills having a big appreciation and Cancun for you know, all the copy addresses. So my staff is diligently trying to make sales get on that trip. And it's just. It's great. Yeah. And used to do it with multiples and. Yes years and years ago. Remember, we will one we will one product. It was okay. I do KM as jell everyone. It was just walking in Fenway park once and I heard someone say, hey, that's the Cam guy. Yeah. And that's what I wanted to bring back after I started doing all the different lines. I wanted to bring a culture back to the salon. If you're with one line, you'll know it inside and out you'll know how to hate to where the used the word sell. You'll know how to scribe it to your clients better with this one product as a work. We know the products. I know we can cocktail the product a little bit. It's worked out great for a little bit of a science this business. There's a lot of science business. We have a color by Tim. If he is and years, you always next to color in the back room, if you walk into my salon is a color bar in it's big it's the focal point of my salon. And what we do is. We have our consultations, and we mix our colors right in front of the client. So they see that what we're doing a lot. On CBS and picking out a box and putting it on the head, which is your competition, which is my main competition, not others lawns. This. Lawns are. Absolutely. Not my competition. They're they're my brethren, right. People to do it yourself. It's do it yourself as your Madison reads, those really hurting your Amazon's all those. Okay. Okay. Professional products are being taken away from the hairdresser at this point. They're all going to the Sephora is the big chain stores that they pretend there's lawns. You know? They're in a mall. They have one hairdresser, but it's really a retail place. So they can sell professional products guys, the guys being a hair salon, and that's hurting us on my my retail sales are getting killed the professional products of being diverted and people can buy them on at Amazon. Right. They're always paying a couple of dollars more. But the convenience of having right? Brought to their houses, you know? I would do it myself. Yeah. Yeah. So those are the would have thought that Amazon can impact the the the hair bits Lutely a haircut business. You know? I mean, retail sales are big part of my business selling the product polluting. I you know, I mean you want to be anywhere from ten to fifteen percent of retail. Not a service. Okay. That's that's what I like to see that. Right right now, the national average dropped well under ten and it's startling. Wow. I never thought that. I never I learned something new all time. But it just goes to show you that you're under the same clashes that supermarkets are under retail pharmacies CVS as your competition and. You know, it's it's it's also roiling the health insurance and the prescription industry and stuff absolately. Yeah. So it really does come down to the personal services that you're able to people in their religion. I mean, this is clearly relations. And that's what I say it always comes back to the relationships and giving, you know, an HBO experience. And that's what I drilled my employers. You know, they want to walk out of here saying while place was great. Yeah. You know? In addition to my hair is great. But like I said other his loans do a great job as well. You wanna come back for the experience? Yeah. What do you where do you see HP one? I was going to HP. Oh, but that's that's television P one in five or ten years, and you had how do you see the industry bobbing? And what do you how do you see your role evolving as you go forward? Well, I see going strong. I mean, we're almost fifty years strong. Now, I don't see the next five years going anywhere. I mean right now, we're we're up swing right now. Last year we had thirteen hundred first time clients. For the year. That's over one hundred first time clients among well in those all part of the all those everyone's complaining about those condos and every all the traffic in Quincy. I look at it as new customers. Good. Well, that's what I have to look at what it is. That's what time I get frustrated and traffic is Emma Quincy guy to grew up in Quincy. Yeah. So I'm in Quincy, and well what we're not gonna have enough time to really get into this subject. But obviously, you got Newbury street that's petition temple from who went to school in Boston and moved to Quincy feel like there's a loyalty, and is also sort of a cache of going in. But also price you pay more expensive in there the rents are higher. So you haircuts cost more, and you can't find a place to park. So you try to give people that sort of Boston feel in the same Boston experience it Quincy, low prices, more convenient. And then like you said, you hope that these people settle here. Like we have and will be customized for the next forty years. You know, like, so many of them are I really? I know. This fact, I'm not just saying this that there are people that have been going there since I was in high school, and now parents of of high school kids themselves, you know, well, it's prom season right now. And I've seen those photos so many mothers coming in with the daughters and them telling me that they came to replace one for their prom. That must be you must feel good about it doesn't make me feel good. Do you ever look back and say which hadn't gone into the business a lot? But I honestly it's been it's been the best best thing that could ever happen to me could feel feel good feel you father would be proud of you father would be proud of you because it isn't easy. Even the next general that always like you too. And he would be proud of you. And what you what you what you've been able to do by keeping the place the same. But growing it, you know, and that's a hard thing to do at the same. And then grow it hardest thing I think to do and not lose sight of those roots at the beginning of of father uncles time, and that supplied Iran, it was gonna be year, and we'll be back with HP one at some point. And maybe some new ventures that you have maybe we can. All right. Well, this is Tim KO when we're on out really had a blast in this episode of profiles American. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to profiles. The American dream. Tim k hill. Police download and subscribe to this podcast. And let me know what you think leaving a rating and review till next time. Thank you very much for listening.

Quincy Tim Boston HBO Stylus Ron it Russell Edwards Tim KO Boston Braintree Tim kale Sarah Ron Agfa Ron Frank Zona Brigham Edward Hanover
S6E13: Becoming a DevOps Engineer With No Experience and No Degree

Learn to Code with Me

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

S6E13: Becoming a DevOps Engineer With No Experience and No Degree

"Hi and welcome to the learn to code with me podcast. Thank you for listening today. We're going to be learning about devops devops. After this word from our sponsors are just published a new website. I wanted a short relevant insecure domain name for it. That's why I chose dot tech domain dot check domains are perfect for all things. Check your portfolio your passion project or Your Business to get ninety percent off your dot tech domain head on over to go dot tech Ford slash learn to code data science in machine. Learning are the two fastest growing careers intact. If you want to become a well rounded data scientist flying schools online data science immersive can get you there start learning for free with their data science boot camp prep course at flatiron school dot Com Ford slash learn to code with me. Hey listeners in today's episode. I talked with Logan Tran. Logan is a completely self taught devops engineer in fact he never even went to college after working in the music industry he decided to switch into Tech Logan has previously worked at top tech companies like apple than mount and others. There's both in person and as a remote employees I've been following Logan on instagram for a long time now which has been my go-to social media platform for some time so I was really pleased when he agreed to come on the show in our conversation when we talk about what devops is how he got into the field whom I enjoy a career in devops and the pros and cons of working remotely. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Logan. As much as I did <music>. Hey Logan. Thank you so much coming on the show. I'm really excited to have you aileron on their thanks for having me he has so I've been following you for a while now on instagram and I just love everything that you post and I love hearing about your story Corey so I'm so excited for guests to get to hear it as well and to get things started. Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you got into technology. Yeah absolutely I'm honored to have my story so I started in in technology about five and a half years ago and professionally so I actually <hes> dove into it when I came out of touring for music so I got <unk> out of the the music industry now traveling playing music for a ban and I wanted a little bit more of a stable lifestyle and a stable income but since I wasn't traditionally trained through college there was some ramp up that they had to do with <hes> sharpening my skills in terms of when I knew for Code and when I knew in the world of cloud infrastructure so <hes> I dove into into tech by getting a quality assurance job through apple and as I was working through that Q._A.. Job I was <hes> just working on personal projects in hacking different little APPS and I and I did that for about two and a half years until I landed my first job as a software engineer a junior software engineer in Dan. I kinda just took off with my career through there and <hes> <hes> ended up in the devops face later down the journey awesome. I had no idea that you were in the music industry before in fact a lot of guests that we have had on the show that ended up transitioning thing into tech later in life having music background so I've not a psychologist or anything like that or earn expert on this area but I have a feeling there's something between like being able to play in read music that ties into being able to program. Perhaps yeah yeah yeah totally I. I think there is a common thread between a composition essentially right so with US eight. You're you're constantly writing something that sounds good and I think with <hes> writing code. You're also composing in the same similar structured manner. It's just an application sense. It's not like audio based but I think there are a lot of common threads between principles and methods between the two so maybe that could it'd be it. Yeah I mean that make sense. I I'm terrible at music but always admire people who are able to read music play music in all of that but I would love to learn a little bit more about your Q._A.. Jobs for Apple. So what did that entail yeah so I was doing hardware and software testing for apple so <hes> anytime that new Beta software would come out. I would test that software <hes> I would also due to a testing on hardware components for repairs for I._O._S. and Mac O._S.. So it was a lot of Princeton repeat work to be honest. It was at the most exciting work worker the most exciting job but I went into that job knowing that I just wanted to get myself as close to software as I possibly could <hes> and I wanted to surround myself with technologists who are passionate about technology and I just surround myself and indulge myself in culture where it would inspire me to learn more and it would inspire me encourage Mita push myself in my development in my personal development with my career so yet wasn't the most exciting job it just had a lot to do with <hes> passing Beta software before it was fully released <hes> doing a lot of smoke tests as a user or let's say like a new Iowa's feature would come out doing a lot of smoke testing for that said feature to make sure that user flow and they interface and things like that work how it should and then did a lot of testing on hardware repairs well so when an iphone would go through. Let's say a quality assurance program. Let's say there was like a display issue with I think it was like the iphone seven <hes> there was apple did a quality assurance program for their displays. 'cause there was a known issue with that we did a lot of documentation tation and testing on the products that were affected by that so that's kind of where it all started in a lot of my colleagues at the time or finishing school for Software Engineering and they were all some some of them were pursuing that same track of what was going for so it was a inspiring and encouraging to be working side by side with them knowing that they were chasing in pursuing same common goal as I was and it helped me the kind does make the most out of that season <hes> working job that I wasn't necessarily passionate about but I knew it was a steppingstone to where I wanted to be yeah. I love that just knowing that it was a stepping down to the next thing so how did you like land this job in the first place because you have this background in music and I you know we didn't talk about this yet but you didn't have a college degree either so you weren't coming from <hes> computer science or something related. How are you able to get that that job? Yeah that's a great question actually my answer that question highs into how I got every other job afterwards and it all boils down a relationship so I actually got that job from a friend that I had made through the music industry his name was Dorian Nolan <hes> he was one of my one of my friends that I would always see when I would be playing <hes> <hes> down in Florida and <hes> he lives in Orlando and so <hes> when I left the music industry I was looking for job <hes> he was working for apple doing that and so so I reached out to him seeing if there was any opportunity or any chance to be able to take on <hes> any kind of role on his team or or around his team and out of that friendship and out of that relationship with him <hes> sprouted an opportunity for me to interview with <hes> Apples Kim and the beautiful thing about apple in wide really admire them as a company is that they don't just hire are based on competency. They actually look a lot at character and a lot at work ethic and just the way that you problem solve even if it's not technology based and they put a lot of the value on their put put a lot of value on employees who display traits of good problem solving even if it's outside of technology they put a lot of value on individuals who work well on a team and have good character in good integrity in good communication skills even if they don't have a background in technology you know etcetera etcetera and so when I had the opportunity to interview with apple a lot of the questions and a lot of the things that were <hes> asked out of me were just trying to identify how eye problem solve in any kind of scenario and how I think in how I communicate in an when it came to all the technical aspects of what the job actually entailed. They were things that I was able to. Uh Get trained on and learn as I went through the job which is actually the same principle that highs in the all technology jobs. I think like there has ever been job that I have accepted or gotten into even as I've gotten significantly more advanced technology and embedded systems like that I've sat to the job where I knew everything like there was always a ramp up and there was always a learning curve to to get through and so <hes> yeah I guess going back to your question. I got that job would apple out of a relationship in out of a friendship and I think it was perfect timing and perfect placement for me to <hes> grabble by the horns Wendo opportunity presented itself. I was lucky enough have been considered by apple and then hired by them awesome and your base in Chicago now. was that position also also in Chicago or are you living somewhere else at the time yes so I was living somewhere else at the time actually moved to Florida for that and then <hes> I'm originally from Chicago so I came back to Chicago. In two thousand fifteen. I lived in Orlando so for like three and a half years. Got It okay so you were thousand Florida now. You're Chicago makes sense and you now of course are more recently are in devops. How how did you become introduced to that? How'd you become interested interesting that and also if you don't mind because you just give quick description of what that is to the to the listeners yeah so bevis what devops is different interpretation depending on what company or foreign how they interpret what devops is but essentially it's a culture in software engineering and software companies where you bridge the gap between operations and development in you use software to do that? You Build Software Osler to bridge the gap between operations in the software development space so it's kind of like having one foot in operations in the business side of things in one foot in software development in the software side of things my journey and a devops pretty interesting as well. I actually did at plan on going in the DEV officer like site reliability engineering but <hes> I ended up I guess falling into it and then falling in love with it that I stayed with it so so after the job apple I had mentioned earlier that some of my colleagues were going to school for Software Engineering and pursuing the same track right and gone to the same goal one the my friends that I work with one of my old colleagues. The apple ended up getting a job at braintree. Are you familiar with what brain trees I. It's a payment processing yeah so <hes> brain. She's a pay pal company in their essentially ahah payment gateway they power lot of payments for ECOMMERCE applications in Mobile APPs like Uber Airbnb and grab hub and a bunch of others <hes> so one of my old colleagues at apple ended up getting a job at braintree and after after him working at brain she for like five or six months there was an opening on bringing trees teams that he referred me to and <hes> I interviewed for that position and I ended ended up getting a junior developer role at braintree specifically on the Monkey. Are you familiar with then Mo Oh yes of course I'm sure allow the listeners are too yeah so I ended up getting a role with Ben and again that opportunity was also I out of relationship <hes> 'cause I wouldn't have gotten that that interview. I wouldn't have even gotten extended the opportunity interview with braintree for <hes> if it worked for that relationship friendship that it had with my colleague so I ended up landing the job there then mo I was doing <hes> I guess now in hindsight when I look back at it relatively simple work relatively simple development work but really helped me get my footing in and really understand how software development and engineering plays in production space knows that then Mo for about a year and a half and as I I was working on that team that was collaborating with the other product teams at braintree. I started to gain interest in the devops space specifically with the tooling in the technologies. Is that the devops at brain she was creating on they were creating a lot of different micro services that automated the Development Life Cycle <hes> for the production team for the product teams at braintree and it really intrigued me with how the systems and the services that those teams were building in writing were really empowering the organization the move forward and build quickly iterative fast in that's when my interest interest in devops really sparked and so after having worked at Demo for <hes> a little over year like a year and a half I started to look around loosely at some other opportunities in Chicago <hes> that were more catered towards the devops face because I wanted to transition my path into devops and devops. I think over the last couple years has really ramped up but when I was gaining interest in it it wasn't a field or a role or a position that was quite desired yet or or that there were a lot of companies that were really putting a strict focus in a an emphasis on the devops culture so it was really hard for me to find a devops role that for Junior d'avray right like I was a pretty young my career at that time and I stumbled upon another company was a digital mortgage company who was starting to build the devops team and automate their development life cycle through devops principles and so I interviewed for that team and Luckily I got the position than it was the first I was the first <hes> engineer to be on that team and so that's kind of wear my <hes> devops like career started in where I got my first footing in devops and I worked for that got a little mortgage company for about a year and a half before I moved on to the company after that wow so changing. You're a little bit here. We're all these positions remote for the most part another one in Florida was in but were you going to office every day. How did some of these things look at braintree? I went to the office four days a week. We did get to work remotely one day a week <hes> so there was somewhat flexibility with remote culture and then at the digital mortgage company that I worked at afterwards I was remote three days a week. I went to the office on Mondays Wednesdays and then my the job after the digital mortgage company along with my current role now or full remote and a lot of people listening I know that's like their dream is to be fully remote for a lot of people outside of Tech intech everyone right. It's like greasy of so much flexibility of your working schedule but I'm sure it comes with challenges like especially as someone who was maybe more junior when you were starting off in some of these partially remote rolls what had like how have you've been able to manage your day working remotely yeah absolutely so I think <hes> yeah you're right. The remote culture in the remote perk is something that a lot of people crave the have but it certainly does come with its downsides on site in the challenges and I think one of the biggest challenges of remote work is the barrier of communication with your team or the teams other dependent on the work that you're doing you have to be a lot more diligent in your communication and almost over communicate everything that you're doing everything that all the problems in the roadblocks running into in order to keep a consistent workflow <hes> working remotely in another big challenge of working remotely is really having the discipline of knowing what your boundaries are as an employee and and as a worker in knowing that everyone everyone has has their own distractions in everyone has their own <hes> boundaries so to speak when it comes to environments that cultivate a productive workflow for them or not a non-productive workflow and I think when a big challenges of working remotely is drawing those lines and drying those boundaries with where you allow yourself to work when you allow yourself to work in how you navigate your work environment in your workspace so that your still producing producing high business value with the <hes> you know massive amount of freedom that you have would not having their report to an office or not having to see people face to face or being able to work from a rooftop or your apartment. Apartment or on vacation somewhere you know wherever I think it's one of the biggest challenges is really having the discipline of drawing those boundaries and knowing what kind of environment you produce the most evaluated sit tight podcast listeners were taking a quick break to hear word from our sponsors. My team and I have just published a brand new. E Book called Twenty eight ways to earn side income while learning how to code for this resource we wanted to pick the domain name that was short relevant and most importantly secure. We decided to go for dot tech domain side Gig dot check. We believe dot tech domains are perfect for all things tech back. We found out some really big names also use domains including the consumer electronics show at C._A._S.. Dot Tack Intel's Internet of things portal at insight dot tack and even Tech Thought Leaders like like Austin Evans whether it's for your passion project. You're startup or your portfolio. I recommend securing your tech. 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There's been a whopping six hundred fifty percent growth in data science jobs alone flying schools online data science immersive teaches at tried and true data science curriculum designed to make sure you graduate as a well rounded data scientist I if you're looking to change careers what better way than by learning from top instructors using real world tools and working with your very own career coach to get the job search skills you need to land the job you can even take this course alongside alongside your current work commitments fulltime part time or self paced the choice is yours. Since two thousand twelve fly on school has helped more than three thousand students watch new careers in tech become one of them by by taking their free data science bootcamp prep course just go to flat iron school dot Com Ford slash learn to code with me yeah that makes a ton of sense so getting back into the devops more specifically now you mentioned another term when you were speaking earlier site reliability engineering. What is the difference between those two things yeah? That's a great question outside a lot lot so <hes> devops it like I mentioned earlier is more of a culture and <hes> it's a culture of automating in bridging the gap between operations teams and software teams development limit teams inside of an organization but since that since devops is culture every organizations interpretation of what devops is is very different so for example as I would be interviewing for other other companies the the role the title of the job that would be interviewing for is devops engineer but the interpretation the job functions of a devops engineer for company a and then the responsibilities of a devops engineer for company be could be very different depending on the interpretation of company and company B.'s <hes> perspective on what devops is in how devops ought to be applied within the organization site reliability engineering is actually a term and a title or a role that Google came up with and essentially it's <hes> quote by Google. One of the Engineers Google fundamentally. It's what happens when you ask a software engineer to design an operations function and <unk> reliability engineering in a whole I guess is a more sustained way to describe devops when you build engineering <hes> principles through applications has solved operations problems so devops in some companies will actually not entail any kind of software development whatsoever a lot of like some companies interpret devops as an operation task so a devops engineer might actually be clicking around the console on like A._W._s.. Making making sure that instances networks running healthy doing health checks on the different components of their architecture and their application but they don't actually build any applications in order to do any of those tasks many of those jobs for them site reliability engineering is creating and building applications to do those tasks so typically a site reliability engineer is someone that does operations jobs but uses software engineering skills to fix those problems and they typically come from a software engineering background where some companies and some devops engineers they don't actually have any engineering background or order skills whatsoever so they don't actually apply engineering principles in solution to the problems that they fix. It's more operations driven site reliability engineering focuses on solving problems through software solving operations problems through software and building tools to do that Gotcha so you don't have to go super in-depth on this but I'm wondering are there any other job titles than that are in this devops sphere that that that you haven't talked about yet so you mentioned right the reliability engineering you also mentioned like a devops engineer. Is there anything else then you so those who titles or those two <hes> roles are typically the most common that's used us in the space but typically those teams could be comprised of network engineers <hes> they could also be comprised of SYS Admin or system engineers so again it really depends on the company's interpretation of what that job entails and in what their needs are but <hes> they're usually pretty diverse teams when you look at a a software engineering team <unk> normal product team everyone comes from a computer science background and they all just write code <hes> devops into devops face in the S._R._A.'s face the teams will be comprised of people that might have a strong focus on networking or a strong focus on system the administration or a strong focus on operations <hes> or some focus on hoffer development in it might be a mix of all of those things Gotcha so what and I know you mentioned a few times. A devops is more of a culture it can really vary from company to company what the role looks like in their interpretation of of it but so a lot of people listening this show our new attack and most are pursuing web development or software software engineering what kind of person that could be a good fit for a devops related role yeah so probably two main buckets of people. I think that fit devops really well. One bucket would be an individual who is very business minded but has engineering skills so one of the the reason I stayed out one of the responsibilities in focuses of a devops engineer S._R._A.'s to make for that on the technology side of things the technology in the infrastructure into tool sets that the company companies using whether that the internal or their customer facing application is beneficial to the company for scale and is actually cost effective in cost efficient <hes> so a lot of focuses on a lot of your focus. There's a devops engineers would be making sure that your costs your tech debt is low with your infrastructure and that your the application in the stack that it's sitting on top of is built and maintained in a way a that is most cost effective in most scalable so that the company can move forward quickly and that the product developers can just focus on writing new features so the reason I say I think an individual who is business-minded but is also so good with engineering and technologies because you have to have a business focus inside a devops face in the Assad race face because your sole responsibility is making sure that the business stays alive in stays healthy out on the business operation side of things so that's one bucket of an individual that I think fits devops face well and the other side of it that I think individuals really well into our people who you come from a <hes> systems administration or networking background but want to dive deeper into building their own systems in their own tool sets so a lot of. The devops responsibilities also ties into <hes> building in maintaining networks and <hes> system administration for <hes> the the computers within a organization nation or one of like one of the organizations that was affiliated with managed different kiosks around the city so having experience in in managing different hardware components. It's like works really well as well so I think <hes> those are the two in my perspective those are two main buckets of people that fit the job really well got it and on the podcast before we've talked a lot in past episodes about technical interviewing and different things related to that mostly focused though on software engineering jobs in like strategies and tips for excelling in that interview how is a devops interview different than a software engineering engineering one or is it kind of similar similar in a sense that code is still very heavily involved so you will get asked different like algorithm questions and efficiency questions on how to run system but I think if differs in the way that when you interview for a product Pima software engineer position typically focus the interview is typically catered in focused towards you building feature or building some kind of APP the highlight the way that you think about how the application works as a service or as a product for the company right in the devops face your targeted by <hes> they they target a lot of questions a lot of the interview around. How would you deploy an application how would you how would you set up in build a system that enables the developers to release quickly and to rate fast over there changes? How would you monitor application logs and application performance in if problems go wrong? How would you if problems with the application go wrong? How would you create an automated system system in order to solve that problem in order to keep your S._l._A.'s Hyphen application so a lot of the questions on the devops side of things outside of the software engineering side of things are focused a lot on the deployment summit side of the application and then how do you keep it healthy once it's running production environment awesome and I would love you could also just briefly talk about some of the technologies that you use in <music>? You're devops work. You don't have to go in a ton of each and every single one. Just listeners can get a sense of like when you're working with yeah totally so it's very heavily involved in the A._W._S.. Product wine so everything every company have worked for is all cloud native and <hes> so a lot of A._W._S.. Technologies I code in go or going so it's a for those aren't familiar with go language a language that Google developed a five or six years ago to replace Python <hes> I use Kuban Etisalat which is a container orchestration tool <hes> I use docker a lot which which <hes> containerize is the the application services that right awesome and so this is kind of so much just ask but are there any new technologies that you start working with the or things that are just kind of. Maybe they're not even totally trade yet. Just receives teacher going that. You're excited about yeah. I'm really passionate about Cooper netties. I talk about Cooper. Hannity is a lot through my social platforms and use it very heavily in my current role along with my last two roles that I've had in Cooper Netease and the devops face has gotten a lot of attention at attraction over the last year or two. It's also technology that that Google started and then they ended up open sourcing it and giving it to a C._N._C. F so it is now it open source project but it was actually started by Google so <hes> yeah coober netease is something that I'm really passionate about awesome and just to kind of wrap things up <hes> one of the things I'm just so impressed about you is how your totally self taught. You've moved into tech on your own. You also have all these other talents that I see the U._S.. Through your instagram seemed to be great at design and like digital editing all these different things I just wanted to hear what advice you have for people listening about teaching yourself technical skills without a <hes> proper college degree yeah. That's a great question I actually I get asked that a lot through my social platforms think there isn't one way one correct way to do anything I think there are multiple Foale ways to get to any destination that you wanna get to in life and I think it all boils down to you knowing yourself the most and knowing what works for you so for me. The reason that I went down the self talk road was because I never really excelled in a traditional like classroom environment and I've always been a strong self learner so because I knew that about myself I was able to take on the the self taught road in have the motivation in the drive to teach myself in the push myself to learn in so it worked really well for me. Eh but I don't give the advice of TATA everyone. I don't give a single solution advice to everyone of Oh. Do the self taught route do the <hes> just teach yourself. You don't need college because there are some of my colleagues in there are some of my friends who aren't good at south learning and self leading and they excel better in a traditional environment so I think <hes> in terms of like the best way the best route for someone to learn. I think it it all sorts with a question in what environment the you learn best and if the if you learn best by being hands on and teaching yourself and <hes> you're good at researching things on your own in asking the right questions on your own then seeking <unk> out those questions on your own by all means self taught route is the way to go but if you're the kind that excels better when someone sits in front of you and you have a structured learning half and you excel well all in a classroom environment with classmates in the teacher to ask you questions to back and forth by all means the traditional route the way to go. I kind of answer your question. Yes yes definitely and just kind of piggybacking GI backing off that <unk> assume you're still taking your yourself things all the time. What do you turn to like are you? Do you just research the problem that you have online and figure out the solution or do you actually go through like books or courses to learn ass <unk> topic in-depth yeah great question I do a little bit of both so <hes> everything that I learn currently I learn out of the having to learn it so I'll run into a problem or I'll be I'll be building something or working on something and I run into something that I don't know and so therefore it causes me to have to go research it and look it up. I always say that Google is my best friend and actually when I get online where or they should start. I always ended jokingly respond Google but it's actually like actually use will every day though the yeah that's kind of that's kind of like my route. Ah themes of of our I teach myself in how I learn <hes> but I also do buy books in learnt through books but more so when it comes to a specific topic that completely unfamiliar with <hes> so for example when I started with coup Brunetti is a couple years ago I picked up a book on Cooper Nettie as it's called Kubrick nineties up in running and I started with that before I started head researching things online looking things up online so I think it really like for me. It depends on the topic at hand in how much I WANNA learn about it. <hes> if it's a bigger topic that requires a lot of research typically start with a book and then Google all things online if it's a smaller problem and you know something that doesn't require too much detail. I'll start with the Internet awesome. Thank you so much logan again for coming on the show. Where can people find you online yes so I have how a bunch of different social networks but you can find all of them through links to all of them through my websites Logan Martin Tran Dot Dev and my site there will make all of my different platforms awesome? Thank you again for coming on their on fake you so much for having me. Thanks so much for listening today. If you want a reminder of anything that was covered in the episode just head on over to learn to code with me four slash podcast you can see all previously published episodes there and if you enjoy a learn to cope with knee podcast please consider becoming a patron of the show by pledging just a few dollars per month. You'll get access access to a bunch of patron only bonuses and privileges like the ability to vote on the topics of future episodes to find out more go to learn to code with dot Mi Ford Slash Pledge. Thanks and I'll see you next time.

devops apple engineer Google Logan software engineer Software Engineering instagram Florida braintree Chicago Logan Tran scientist Tech Logan US Orlando Logan Martin Tran Dot Dev
Staples Connect -137

On Mic Podcast

24:48 min | 8 months ago

Staples Connect -137

"Welcome to a special edition of on Mike with Jordan rich on today's podcast. We take our show on the road to the staple store in center Boston to experience a new concept that they've launched called staples connect at staples connect dot com. Everyone knows staples as the place for office supplies. But now they're offering services and support for growing businesses providing office and meeting space helped with design shipping and yes podcasting introducing the new staples connect IHEART media podcast centers. We're talking state of the art studio facilities and people on staff to help you with your podcast needs. The launch isn't about a half dozen locations throughout the Boston area and with me is a colleague. I mentioned often on this show. Dan Tibo fast which media. Dan is the technical wizard who coordinates all of the PODCASTS. On the back end well he and I together will explore the services for budding podcasters and talk a little bit about the podcasting whirled and how it's evolving. The facilities here are top notch. And we're delighted to be invited to share a little bit of this experience with you on. Mike. We are recording today from the staples connect iheartradio PODCASTS BASE. And much more about that. And how impressed I am and how cool it really is to be here taking our show on the road so to speak delighted to be with you as always. This program is all about communication. It's all about conversation. And for the longest time I referred to my guests on the podcast as one of the technical advisers. One of the CO producers. Actually he's the guy that makes it all happen for me. His name is Dan. Tibo of fast twitch media we become fast friends and and will be our guest today talking about with me and with all of you. The beauty and lure of podcasting Harare but Jordan. I am great thank you. Let's talk a little bit about where we are now. This is not home base for me. Although it's not far from where I actually live in Boston. It's a government center right next to City Hall. Various storks section and I've been coming to staples you know forever. I mean I'm constantly running out of staples right and all of a sudden I come to staples connect and it's a whole new environment. What do you think of this Setup this place is fantastic. They've made this a community hub for co working podcasting and learning with the office supply products that you need still here at the store but it's really great. For small businesses people want to get them selves off the ground. I'm really impressed. So what we're doing Dan for we talk about podcasting in general is we are recording this podcast in the new staples connect iheart studios and Equipment top flight and this will enable people to do this kind of stuff more frequently. Yeah this place is so much more than an office supply store. I mean there's co working space here this beautiful podcast studio this beautiful board. That were were speaking into the microphone. It's just you know state of the art equipment all around well it. It brings to mind what we've talked about privately. A lot over caufield last year. This incredible rise of popularity for this medium. It's absolutely gangbusters. Every day Dan and I take calls from perspective podcasters. Who want to know more about the industry and Might WanNa get into the industry and our business is booming at the moment and getting better. And there's a reason for that because the technology exists. Talk a little bit about how you got involved in podcasting Dan. I met you and that's how I got involved in podcasting. I walked through your your recording studio in braintree and I was asked by a friend to figure out how to do the back end of podcasting. Which is the publishing creating and configuring the RSS feed getting the episode. Onto all the major podcast directories Google stitcher. And it all started there with you because I did learn how to do that. I drank from the fire hose. And then the next thing you know your door started swinging for independent content creators. That wanted to record their podcast. The missing piece was. How do you get it up to the cloud? So that's how my business started and of course It's accelerating at an amazingly rapid rate. Because I remember when we first met we should tell everybody you were working with Tim. K Hill who is a great guy now the He's the Executive Director of the Quincy Chamber of Commerce and he was doing a podcast with Jimmy tingle. The famous comedian they had a great idea was to do a piece on trump from center right and center left and they chose to record your studio and that's how I started. I was actually learning how to do the back end for them. Tim Kale Is a former candidate for governor former treasurer of the State of Massachusetts and actually a former talk show host at WBZ. Where I currently work. Great Guy and I've known Jimmy for a million years so there's a lot of fun didn't last Jimmy Decides to run for Lieutenant Governor. Which was a great move on his. Party's very very intelligent person but That made doing the podcast kind of impossible. Because it's time consuming. Now I've been in the business. The business for forty plus years so I know a little bit about producing content. But you had to learn and you have been learning and you did learn all of this back end stuff. And I'll have you describe what that is in more detail pretty much on the fly so talk about how what you did I to figure things up. Well I like to say that. Podcasting is DIY. But for me that acronyms out to Dan invested years. It's you know I'm not a millennial. I'm a digital immigrant and for me to learn all this stuff you know. It was a little bit of a challenge but not undoable I just had to apply myself study and just learn from all the different platforms. Really what I learned how to do was take an audio file. Put It on an feed. Make sure the directories were pulling from that feed and getting out to the APPS and all the podcast platforms where people consume them technical. It's not interesting to most people and it can be very confusing for some. There's a department in radio stations. That still exists called the traffic and continuity department and again not the most glamorous but probably won't one of the most important it's scheduling making sure programs commercials and other things. Get on the air when they're supposed to so you become a traffic and continuity director for dozens of individual shows and individual podcasts. Well Yeah I mean together just you and I we how many clients do we have now upwards of twenty. I lost count I mean. It's just incredible. Everybody wants to do a podcast. Or everybody's interested in doing a podcast. But you yourself. You're like Boston's most prolific podcast. Right now how many episodes have you been on? You've been on four hundred wealthiest episode. You host fourteen podcasts. Plus your own this one talk about being an influence in the space Mr Ubiquitous. What can I say? The thing is and this is why. It's so much fun and we haven't Talked about this on a podcast but the idea of content being available and presented in audio format is so cool to old. Coots like me because For All those years that we've heard radio is about to die and audio's dead medium totally totally opposite the fact as as you and. I know I call it. The three t effect travel treadmill train and could travel means community car right travel on a train and we know what that means and treadmill. This is the kind of listening even what we're doing today from the staples connect iheart studio. This is the kind of listening that really basically is on demand listening just as on demand TVs got. Yeah I mean think about it this way with an RSS feed you truly can have a worldwide reach your stories. Your voice can be heard anywhere. There's a WIFI connection the device. And you know we know with Broadcast Radio that's for a fleeting moment with RSS. It's permanent right. Plus I can do it. I can get my message to virtually every country in the world myself. It's truly amazing and what's really Important for people to remember is there are many many people who are podcasting not to the world and not even to a large swath of people but to a very targeted group of people I mean many of the businesses I work with are not looking to break the bank on on ratings and numbers. It's not really ratings but it's eye balls or ears they're looking for a targeted audience and broadcasting is Al- always been about targeting with the format that you have in the in the market that you have but this is so much according copious of riches. Because you had you have where there's one podcast that we do I'll just use an example With a lovely lady named Joyce Walsh the mystery writer and she's telling stories and doing a few interviews and she's targeting her readers who are already there and want to hear from her and she's picking up new listeners as well but it's it's an amazing process of communication choices a great writer as well. I love listening to her podcasts. After I published on. So let's talk about some of the do's and don'ts this is a bit of a primer for our audience. We're thrilled to be staples. Connect stores I work for IHEART. Wbz and. When I heard about this I was thinking. Wow this is a step in the next direction. But I didn't know how impressed I B by the build out by the equipment and by the team of people around a so. What they've done here is in the Boston area. I believe there were six stores. Six staples centers that Are going to be the test run for this project. What they are community hub for co working podcasting and learning. They have office supply products in the front of the store. Is They always did? But I mean you take a look at these offices in these studios. They're they're gray so let's talk about what people do right when they podcast what they're not doing right. Let's start with that. What do you think Dan producing a podcast? There's a lot of moving parts right. You know you have to have engaging content and you have to plan that content to you. Want something that the listener is GonNa be dying to here week after week. They're going to download you on a regular basis because they really WanNa hear what you have to say but then are the production values going to be solid as well. What I'm speaking to are more. Maybe the cork sniffing sensibilities of podcasting. What is your recording equipment? Like what does it sound like? How much are you editing? The podcast afterwards. Are you dropping music beds in at the right time and is it compelling music? Those are the types of things that I think. Make a difference for a lot of podcast listeners. I know for me. And maybe it's my age group. Maybe it's my demographic I want to hear production values there little bit better than riffing one of the things too that I hold to is consistency and frequency very important. If you're delivering what I consider a show to me. It's it's it's an entertainment package if you're delivering something to an audience. Even if it's an audience of one or ten and your inconsistent with the numbers of shows that you're putting out or you're put them out at willingly times that's not a way to build an audience order to sustain audience. Remember the whole goal of the podcast. You want people to subscribe you. Want them to be regular subscribed not go hunting and finding at each time but to have it on their on their APP and so forth. And so what does that mean? If you're not there for three or four weeks or a month or three months their unaffected about you. That's possible it can happen. I mean I do know of some podcasters. That will go on hiatus. But they're going to tell their audience they're gonNA make sure they know. Hey listen I got family problems? I got emergencies or I just need to take a break and some of the biggest podcasters do this by the way. But they're gonNA let their audience. No I will be back. I'm taking a break. I'll be back in a month and you'll be surprised at the loyalty you will get by doing well. I've learned in forty plus years of radio particularly the last twenty almost twenty four years at BBC Radio in Boston that the audiences is very much with you. If you're with them and you show respect to them and the same applies to the podcast world so beyond that issue and the quality of your work and communicating. Well we all want to be as good as we can be. There are some other issues too that Dan and I work with and Dan particularly is very well versed in and that's licensed music things that can be used now. A lot of people might think well if it's only a few seconds of music or clip of a sound effect or something from a movie what could possibly be the The problem with that I'm not playing a whole song. You have to remember the artists. And the producers of such material have a right to be compensated for what they have produced. What are the basics in terms of? Abc rules when it comes to using material. Everything that I've heard from the podcasting space asks you to use extreme caution with your music pets. I advise people to just. Don't use any licensed music ever people say. Well I will. I will get the proper licensing for it. I still caution them because it's more than one agency that you have to go through and you have to make sure that you get licensed properly a gentleman who had podcast and he used fifteen seconds of Taylor swift song. He got his cease and desist letter. Decided to keep throwing that in the trash can and then he got sued for about thirty million dollars so there are a programs out there. There's a new company. See this new companies coming all the time that there's a new company called PECs and they take a digital fingerprint. They are listening to every piece of music on every platform possible and they can identify an artist and their music within two seconds. Right even if it's even if it's poor-quality used to be their actual human beings they were known as the ass cap. Bmi Police who actually go into stores and surreptitiously has sneak snoop around to see if they're playing on the radio on and some diner some Driving or something but you're right the algorithms and the ability to use AI to capture that. I it it doesn't make sense. It's not worth the The risk and the arguments you know the popular myths are well. I'm using it in public commentary. So it's fair. Use Actually Fair. Use is a legal defense. You use after your suit okay. So don't use using a podcast. Well I'm attributing the author of the music false right. I'm only using ten seconds of the Peace. False false false false. Just don't just don't do it you. You're better off finding royalty free music Jordan. You have a wonderful library. I have a great library. We pay for them. You know we pay subscription to these services but they have every genre of every music every vibe in every length they have stingers. They have a sound effects. If you want a Zebra in Chicago with a head cold you can find it. I mean it's just amazing what you can get if you're willing to spend a few hundred bucks a year well what we're doing here at staples connect and again. We're at the staples connect IHEART podcast space in Boston. Government Center which is right across from City Hall Plaza near Faneuil Hall. It's very historic. What we're finding is companies like staples and Iheart to try to make this an easier. Get for people because a lot of folks are listening and wondering how can I start a podcast? How can I do it on my own? How much money do I have to spend? What kind of equipment do I have to get out there who we advise on a regular basis? Who used the equipment that we suggest depending on their needs? But here we are. Set up with four microphones a very Applicable Control Board. All the bells and whistles that you need a sound proof studio And this is one way for people to Avoid having to make that big investment. Yeah I you know I own this board. It's a road caster pro. It was made specifically for podcasting. And it's a beautiful piece of equipment. You can have. Four microphones four sets of headphones with independent volume controls. You can talion two phones your laptop and then it's got presets for different audio files that you WanNa pull. In you know there's a whole array of sex in there to give you that studio quality you can buy a kit. You can buy a diy kit and there's nothing wrong with that and people can do this out of their out of their home if you don't want experience that learning curve if you don't WanNa have to dive deep and drink from the fire hose on that. This is a beautiful place to come and this is the. It's the next best thing to being in a recording studio. Dana's another issue that I want to bring up. And that is the ownership of content and the protection of your own intellectual property. And what you have to say in what happens to your podcast. If and when you seated over to certain entities which were not disparaging those entities but we want at least tell people what's going to happen and while we're at it requests from the Peanut Gallery. We keep mentioning. Rss Feeds Lezo. We all know what that is by the way. I've heard three or four different right answers to what RS stands for. Whoa how do you define our S S? Because you're the Maven go ahead. Most popular is really simple syndicate. I like that okay. So let's go back to my question. You know what what's out there. And what do we have to be aware of? You have to create that. Rss Feed somewhere. Most of us will not have the code writing ability to do that. So we go to a service provider and they're called media hosts and there are many different media hosts that have already been established and in business for years. But I'll tell you this. Basics is exploding so quickly that on a weekly basis a new provider is coming out saying. We're going to help you do your podcast. What I'd like to caution people against is watch out for anything that says we'll do it for free we will create your RSS Feed for free. We will let you edit for free. We will publish you for free. Remember this if the product is free then your the product. You don't know what they're gonNA do with that. Rss Feed and you don't know if they're going to monetize off that feeder if they're going to put ads on that feed or how they're going to promote it. They're going to promote it on their branded website through their social media. You want control over the feed because then you will have control over your intellectual property. I started with blueberry as my media host and I just can't say enough about them. There are many other good Media providers out there. But I'll stay with blueberry for that reason they give the podcast complete control over their feet and they encourage you to never send anyone to a place that you don't own yes. We want people to subscribe to us in apple and Google and and all those other places but you know what it's better to have your content right on your website. That's where we have yours. It's on chart productions dot com right on your podcast website. Blueberry gives us the ability to take I frame codes and embed those players right on the website so that way there we're smashing people over the head on social media. Come on back to my brand website. Drawing new is there they consume the content. Then we beat him over the head with ways to subscribe again. Just be very very careful about the RSS feed and having control over that one item and since we are guests today for this one recording here at staples connect the Iheartradio podcasts base. I do want to mention the fact that they offer a paid distribution service at S- Through spreaker which is also the Iheart Service. We edit podcast. These are all available to people and there are so many great programs and aids out there but these are just some that staples. Yeah through through the partnership with iheart. You get a discount. I have no idea what the numbers are in terms of the podcast and the growth. But I've heard upwards of sixty to seventy million people are listening regularly. That's probably gone up since the last time we did. It keeps going up There the data keeps coming in and it just gets more and more dramatic lashed year. Eight hundred new episodes were published every day every day. That's two per minute. That's only going to get more amped up because of what we're doing here and what people are doing elsewhere so Dan will not end this particular. Get together without talking about your own personal podcast. Life underground life underground. This guy actually has like the old cartoons you take that little machine and you look for in the ground. That is correct. It beeps what happens. Newer podcast dirt alert. I have a I have a metal detector. Yeah I like to find old relics and coins. Now I'm not a guy that goes on the beach. Nothing wrong with that but I like old farmlands and I like old structures in his history and I find these relics in the ground. And you know it's it's a passion of that item that I just found fell out of somebody's hand like two hundred and fifty years ago Are you kidding me? I just can't stop thinking about. What was that person's life like? What were they doing when they lost it so I do a little bit of research on the item and then I tell a little story about maybe that time in history. Well it's all about storytelling ultimately that's what we're doing. And it's the oldest not the oldest profession second oldest third oldest whatever. It's one of those professions but people have been telling stories and that's how humanity continues to grow and and and learn and podcasts enabled us to do that. You know what else podcasts are. Great for for writers like me A struggling writer. I write a lot of the material for the podcast and I love the fact that I haven't outlet to then bring this writing to bear so they're all kinds of really cool cool things so to wrap up if people want to find out more. Obviously they can go to my site. Your site they can ask about. The INS and outs of the podcasts world. But we really are thankful that We've been invited to partake here at staples connect IHEART podcasts base. And I want to mention because this is important that you can use the space for free if you're a member meaning a monthly member using the office facilities the hourly rate if you're not a member is what sixty dollars an hour so sixty dollars an hour which is competitive by the way very competitive with studio rates. There's so much work so much opportunity for all of us including you me and everybody at staples connect. It's it's going to be a a fantastic ride over the next several years Dan. Yeah I agree. You know we'll put all the links to everything and that we talked about in the show notes here so that you can go back and find everything that we talked about. But yeah you know. It's a great thing to be able to make this type of service available for the Independent. Content Creator is truly important. Podcasting is a wonderful medium and the more opportunities there are to record the more opportunities. There are to produce and publish these stories for individuals. The better well. I can't wait to to do my next one after I finish one. I want to do the next one but this was fun. City is Grit Jordan. This is like a dream. Come true to be the guest of your podcast on Mike Jordan. Rich all right so we've been coming to you today. Special today from the Staples Connect Iheart podcast studio which is located in Boston. And government centers pretty impressive operation underway and. It was kind of fun to be part of all of this as it. Gets you know as it kicks off. Thank you to those who listen and also to remind you you can reach me Jordan at chart productions dot com. Dan what's your website. My website is fast. Twitch media dot space you gotta Dot Space Dot Space. Everybody's Jealous Yeah. I dated DOT space. She was a sweetheart. I just want to say one last thing. Be well so you can do good. Hey that's my long. No I had to say my thanks to Dan. Tibo of fast twitch media my good friend and colleague and to everyone at staples connect for being so cooperative and friendly and welcoming for more visit staples connect dot com a new experience to help podcasters large and small until next time. This is Jordan rich as always saying be well so you can do good take care.

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Material 199: So Many New Toys

Material

1:23:13 hr | 1 year ago

Material 199: So Many New Toys

"Uh-huh. Good morning afternoon or evening pleased, elite as appropriate. Hello there. This is the material podcast episode number one hundred ninety nine and I am India nocco, and I'm I on one nine or you're out of your mind. That's what away from two hundred. And also, I was just reciting an ihop commercial that I've somehow memorized for like two decades. That's how marketing gets ya. The class. Well, knows an of commercial one ninety nine are you out of your mind like a stock, and it's just been my mind since I I saw on TV like who knows how many years ago that's the whole point of advertising. It's like we we hate it. But we also hate how effective it is. There's there's a there's a car dealership in knowing Lind called Dave Dinger Ford that had the most amazing like that. So that his last name Dinger see he was born to make a slogan out of his name or he was born to make a jingle out of his name. I should say. But I think I think they realized that the jingle the commissioned. What must have been like nineteen seventy five was just too good to ever let go of. And I've never I've never bought a car at Dave Dinger Ford. But like I must have heard this jingle for the first time at age six and just. This digger to co. Thing in Braintree and the backup backups in Braintree. Entry. He paid a lot of money for that back in the seventies. Everytime. Yeah. He's one of those fellas. He's like I've read a lot for that back in the seventies. I'm keeping it until I'm off this earth. I understand this man. And I think I would buy a Ford from him. Eddie. I have a new Toyota show, you toys. Okay. All right. I wanted to tell you about stick that I wanna try out in a couple of weeks. So you know in a couple of weeks, Google the developer's conference, and I got a badge this year. So I'm going to be going to be there. And I thought that it would be a fun gimmick. I don't know how Jim writers feel about this. But I thought it would be a fun gimmick to do the recording. There. With you for the podcast. Because I was thinking, hey, you know, what I'm going to be there for three days, I'm paying all this money to stay in the peninsula. Oh my God. It costs so much money to stay down there. You know, I'm coming down. I'm going to do the podcast that week while they're going to have so much to talk about. And also, I was thinking, well, you know, I should invest in some kits. So that next time on the go, and we're podcasting. I'm not traveling to computers like I did in Palm Springs because that was ridiculous. Okay. The whole point the reason that I have the pixel book, which is forever on loan is because that's what I want in the wild. I just wanna have me and chrome s but the one thing that can't do which I really need to do is podcast. I mean it can. But like not not the way that I like fully trust it. So and especially not record also Skype at the same time. So I bought myself a zoom h one end Hindy recorder with like one of those like, try quarter model standalone recorders. Yeah. And you know, what it was only one hundred nine bucks, which I mean is is a lot of his law hundred dollars. But I thought you know, that's not too bad for like an on the go a little podcasting machine that's cheaper than some of the really nice. Mike's out there for podcasting. And I was just thinking, I don't know. I I bought it about a little love Mike which also works on my smartphone. If I wanna make I don't know I have all these ideas in my head of gimmicks that I won do audio. And I don't know I still working the confidence to like fully execute them. So I feel that by talking. On the record here. Of the ideas that I have will kind of everybody is now holding me accountable. Putting into the game. Yes. Exactly. Also. I mean, I just thought I would see I wanted to up my game a little bit like I should be so tethered to my desk here, deepen, the suburbs. Like, I live Tepe in the suburbs. It takes a long time to get back home. And so I said, you know, what I should probably have something with me that can produce the same sound is what I'm sitting here. Those things are super cooled, particularly when you're doing an interview with somebody. And like the one thing that the if all it means is that that you never have to do anything but push one button. And then make sure that the Linke light is blinking. And then, but you don't have to have like eight bags worth of stuff. That's men that makes it worth it. Yes. And I also bought little fuzzy covers for it. And okay, I just want to add one more thing because I started looking for little tripods for it. So that 'cause I realized like, well, if I'm gonna do this Google, I'm going to be doing this outside, and it's going to be out in the tables. So th-they sell lake little fo handles looking like Mike Campbell could turn it into like a Mike. So you put a big muzzle over it. And then you'd put this little hand underneath like, you screw it in. And then you have like a makeshift giant Mike to use like interview people with I don't know how it feel about doing that. Like, hello. Let me stick. This giant contraption like. But that's cool. Okay. Can I can I give you a suggestion? That will absolutely all around. Yes. Please words. Joann fabrics, you go to any craft store. You buy one set of googly eyes and one of those little like red tiny little pompoms, and you basically glue them onto the top of the windshield award. And so that number one they're not talking like into this monstrous device they're talking to your little friend Jackie Johnny to muppet. Yes. Oh my gosh. And and if you want to do give Jackie a little voice, that's fine too. That'd be a headache ago. I bet that will put a smile developers faces though, it seems unfair that you're treating you're not contract employees like full time, but not giving them the south or benefits or upgrades path. Do have anything to say about that for the record? Soft and help soften the blow a little bed red monster. Asking you serious questions yell at me, just a loveable puppet. Anti connection. More exciting with you. I feel I feel selfish though, I'm all late at night at my time of day. And so I need all the excitement that I can get also I've had like a really really like office intensive week. So I've been I've been a Meiring the sun from afar for the past three days. So anything any any news from the outside world? Very very well. This wasn't on the outline. But I'm going to show you this. Now, look at this poster I buy. The posers has get out of the house and big letters than below it or all these little squares that you have to fill in for each day of the week. So bought this. So that I will be incentivized visually physically. That's not what I wanted to tell you. But I digress. I wanted to show you anyway, actually, I just wanted to update everybody on the status of my pixel three. Calling my journey because I'm starting. I'm just really the Samsung galaxy S nine plus is just not cutting it for me. I mean, it's like great like the battery. Life is great like it never dies. Like, there's lots of great things about it. But it's just like not my pixel, especially not the camera. I just I miss the pixel three so much. So it's on its way back to me from what I call the Google hospital somewhere in industrial, Texas. So I don't know if it's going to be on the week. I kind of hope I hope they rushed mailed it to me for the three hundred dollars that I paid them be nice. I think I paid like twenty five dollars extra shipping was included in that to sell. So do do are you are you going to check for distinguishing marks to see if they gave you back exactly your phone, or if they simply like they have they have a pile of fixed completely. Wh what could it be could be sold as hundred percent refurbished phone that is simply say look a phone as a phone. I think they'll appreciate getting it back fast. We'll send them back a working phone cell in the the third day that I had the pixel three I had dropped it on the ground outside the house, which was terrible. And I didn't have a case on it yet. Because the case that I had ordered was backward. The case that I preordered with the phone, by the way. So it had three distinct marks on the back. So I'm curious if maybe there was a little gray shut on me and somebody went back there and maybe buffed him out. So I could just have a totally brand spanking new phone. So that's kind of what I'm hoping for. But I think I'm just going to get it. Back with those three marks in the back and a fixed screen. I'm just super curious what this is gonna look like I've never gotten a screen fixed on a phone before. Anytime I've replaced a phone. I've sent it in to like an insurance program received a new one in replacement. I've never actually had something physically replaced like this. So. Just one giant experiment that I'm paying for kit that is kind of tax deductible because what I do. It does say something weird about our society that it's such a freaky experience to have something broken and to send it someplace and have it fixed and come back as opposed to thinking. Oh, well, it was a five month old old phone anyway, I was at I may as well just get a new one I had a and sometimes sometimes these companies can surprise you had a the I have a have one good fountain pen. And if was as as it was it was like a two hundred dollar pen that I bought on EBay for ninety bucks. But was real good. Good as new condition. Nothing wrong with it. And I'd had it for all of two months. Of using it exclusively for like whenever I need to. There's a writing project wasn't going anywhere. And sometimes the solution to that that block is to just write using a different tool or different medium or technique because your brain says ou fund, look, we're making lines with a pen as opposed to typing, and it was working. So I had my head this pen in my pocket. But that was the first time I'd ever owned a nice pen. And the first thing you will learn if you own a nice pen is to never always have like a always have it with a companion cheap like four dollar jell pen. Because had I had a cheap four dollar gen a jell pen in my pocket pocket alongside the nice pen. When I was at some sort of clubs some sort of event and someone asked to borrow my pen. And I didn't know how to say. This is a really nice pen that could only afford because I got a really good bargain on it. And I really really like it, and please don't candle it so carelessly that literally four seconds after handed to you, you drop it and fumbled dropping it and send it over a balcony onto the floor like a story and a half below causing the point to basically get all mashed up which is excessive happen to seriously not like almost as so quickly that I had to evaluate the possibility that this person just didn't like me and wanted to throw my nice pen over a balcony, they didn't. But it was like that quick. And that point fortunately, they caught me at exactly the right point in my life, age wise, where if if it happened to three years earlier talking like just two or three years earlier, I would have been. What what the hell, man? What the hell? Do you just do? Here's here's what Penn cost me, man. And here's what you're going to pay me right now. Oh, you don't cash on your great. There's an ATM over there when go over there, and you're gonna give me the money for this pen that I don't know hide. It don't care how you did it, but you're paying for that. I was at that. Fortunately, just at that stage emotional maturity were to say getting mad at this person is not going to get your pen back and that although the nice thing for this person to offer would be to pay for the pen, or at least pay for half of the pen. I'm not going to get in this person's face that way. Anyway, what I'm getting is that so this was still too nice of a pen to throw away. So it was in a drawer for like four five six seven eight years until I found out that bucks for it. Yeah. So it's still looking interesting object and also as a life lesson as to a wire, I'm not going to buy a nice pin ever again or be. If I do buy nice pen why I'm never ever ever going to let someone haven't even for just a second just to write down an Email address or something. But so oh, actually, the Lamey fountain pen copy actually has a pen repair service. Great Elvis not in warranty or anything. But I bet that I can at this point. I've forgotten that at this point I've absorbed, the ninety dollars cost they originally paid. If I can get it fixed and working again for another ninety dollars. I will again feel as though I got this two hundred dollar pen for half price, and as it happens. So there's a there's a love the fact that there's someone who's in who's in charge of repairing fountain pens at the Lamey corporation. They sent me like a a letter a letter back along with the pen, basically, like a car mechanic thing everything that was wrong with the pen like the cap. Cracked and the point of obviously was not working. And then there is a and so he basically he said at one point said hell with that. You basically banged you a brand new Penn? Thank you, hope you like it go that was very nice. And now, I have a working Pentagon. But see that's the that's the thing that the commercial consumer culture beats this thing out of us. The idea that we're supposed to throw this thing away with. Let's not even check to see if they will if this thing can be fixed. So sometimes sometimes these companies will surprise you. I've got I've reminds me that I still have my really a pocket Panasonic camera that really liked the LX ten which I also like dropped like one month after I bought it still works fine. There's like the battery cover there's a dang in the metal case of the cameras of the battery cover doesn't really close correctly covered with tape nor northe- gaffer tape get close. And so I keep meaning to send it to Panasonic. To get it fixed by just don't get around to it. But I should definitely too much. You don't wanna see I just I wish I didn't have to send the pixel three away because I miss it so much this is. All report when it comes back. Hopefully, hopefully here soon you love something you said it free and came back to you doubts yours forever, particularly because you're in for the full retail price, plus three hundred dollars. So it better. Come back to you better. Oh, well, I got. So I've I told you a couple of month ago couple months ago of a new story that also personal impact that for some reason Google felt as though the Google home mini was not quite enough like the AL sign-up CD's where it's just impossible to not own one that the company that creates these considers it a personal failing. If there's somebody who does not have one in their possession and so one year after continuing to pay for one terabyte of storage on Google Drive. As got an Email saying, oh, by the way, we're giving a free Google home mini. Just click on this link. This Email that after checking that you are L eighteen times to make sure it wasn't some sort of a phishing scam. Because I rarely get emails as a consumer from company saying, we're giving you something for free. Just because thank you for being a customer. Soap got I had no idea originally, what is going to do with the Schuylkill home many. And so it literally just stood on my stood like a in my closet someplace on opened until I realized that I got the I got the idea that I have one Google home mini, the one that I bought for research purposes. And even that one was like, okay, what the hell gonna do with it. I decided that the place for that goal. Home many is on my nightstand. Because it's like two o'clock in the morning, and I need to know like what is going to rain tomorrow shy get prepared for something. Or I need to you know, do Google home stuff. And I I would rather have a tiny little device that sort of whispering at me that I could also whisper quietly to as opposed to like barking at my personal assistant in the next room. That would have been have to bark back at me. But then I decided with this other one like, okay? Well, I know that I this. I've got the school home many two feet away from my sleeping head. Which would think that that's got a covered? But what if I were to put this other Google home many on the other night stand? And so I will basic stereo mini sound. Yeah. Yeah. That's those hoping for or at least like having headphones on without actually having to strangle myself with headphones while I'm sleeping or destroy embed them into your pillow, which is very comfortable either. Yes. That's the kids doesn't other thing that you would have to be older than thirty. Maybe even forty to understand the your childhood of having the AM FM radio and having it under your pillow at a low volume where the music is coming out of your pillow, even because your parents don't want you listening to rock and the rock and roll music late night. But okay. So the the good news is immediately paired them like so I set them as a as a Google home group. And the good news is that it really does. It really does pay off that I feel it instead of there being this one source of peaceful music, if I'm going to sleep or this podcast if I'm like working. Head on the on my left side. It's feels like there's this bubble of this dome of sound surrounding me without having to flood the entire room with noisy, noisy noise. The bad news is that the only apparently only the Google home. Max will let you set up to devices as a stereo pair which bums me out because the these two Google Khomeini's. I didn't it synchronizes. I would have to say perfectly. I don't notice the sound being out of phase at all. So it's not a sink thing. It's not as though they couldn't make sure that the left left channel in the right channel aren't going at the sex same time. But I just I've it makes me hopeful that maybe there will one day be an update that will let you pair to set up any two of the exact same make and model of Google home speakers as a stereo pair like not now that particularly now that the. Google home is now basically seems to be down to one hundred bucks American like twenty four seven fifty two. Like, I maybe don't want to spend six hundred dollars to have a pair of Google sorry. Seven hundred dollars have a pair of Google home. Max speakers, actually, I'm sorry. No eight hundred dollars. There are three three hundred nine nine bucks. They dropped the price. I think one hundred bucks. I don't know if that's a that's a permanent drop, but tax and shipping taxes sharing. And and in any event, I keep getting tempted to buy a second one of these all have a stereo pair before realizing that that's four hundred dollars, man. But you don't have to spend that money on this thing, but I would happily if I had one regular Google home for one hundred fifty bucks, I would happily buy a second one to have on my desk as a pair of stereo speakers. And given that they seem to be in Google street in this Jag of always of being so aggressively in competition. With Amazon for smart speakers. If they want to trick us into buying more speakers that we don't actually need. Let us keep pairing these things up as stereo pairs. I want I would I hope there was a technical reason why they can't make that happen. Because I want to think that this could get that with a software update. I don't see why not. I mean, they're still that way that you could hack them if you wanted to reveal their quote, unquote, auxiliary port. I did I did see that. But it's like. That's not the intended use. We don't have to take apart tech to make it work the way we want a rather we shouldn't have to do that. I think in the stage. I think we should just be able to say, hey, you know, what I would give you money for this should make it and it should be made. I mean, haven't we all come to expect that one way or another? Done. If that you're giving me this free speaker, I'm gonna make complaints about the limitations of this, totally free speech. Precisely bless America. Yeah. Exactly. Speaking of America. Should we make some time for I out of the show? I think we should make some time for thank you. This episode of material is brought to you by squarespace. Make your next move with squarespace squirts basal to easily create a website for your next idea with the unique domain award-winning templates and more maybe wanna create an online store, maybe wanna create a for full EEO, her meteors wanna create a blog square spaces and all one platform that lets you do just that there's nothing to install no patches to worry about upgrades needed. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff. Because squarespace has got you covered. They've award winning twenty four seven customer support. If you need any help that let you quickly and easily grab a unique domain name. And all of those award-winning templates are beautifully designed for you to show off your great ideas. Squarespace plan started just twelve dollars a month, but you can start a trial with no credit card quired by going to squarespace dot com slash material. When you decide to sign up use our offer code Muttiah, real to get ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain and to show you support for us the material podcast once again that squarespace dot com slash material and the code much aerial to get ten percent off your first purchase, we think squarespace for their support. Squarespace. Make your next move. Make your next website will flow, the the, unfortunately, you do have the old model of flagship phone where the pixel where it arrives in perfectly functional well-designed state, and then you have to take the additional effort to break it and render it inoperable bet that you're we wish you held off to buy something like the Samsung galaxy fold which arrived which saves you that effort like if you're ever worried about Ono. Roy dollars cry. Yeah. Nine thousand nine hundred eighty dollars starting not including taxes in ship in shipping and handling and all that. Oh my gosh. Andy, this I wanna say I don't wanna say salacious because I don't want to use that word in parallel with our podcast. However, I find this to be the kind of news that keeps me keeps me coming back to the computer. Please Andy I would love I would love for you to expand on that. So so Simpson Kelekci fold. The yes is Google related because. Renzo android. Yes. Simpson's rate, partly Android universe. We are all world culture of being deeply deeply disappointed in cutting edge Harper that we spent way too much for and realize that we bought way way too early. So Samsung has shipped the first functional galaxy folds to reviewers, and they're breaking like a lot like already, by the way, it's been a couple of days. It hasn't even been that long. I think I think the earliest folks who got him got him over the weekend. And we're doing this on Wednesdays like three or four days ago that is does not bode well for a phone that again, search it nineteen hundred eighty dollars for the for the cheap one for the cheap one for the one for the one with manual windows and no air conditioning. That's what you get. Yes. And the the the double the double bed thing is that it's. It's not like oh gosh. Why is it suddenly not charging anymore or while there's some debt picks? No. I'm saying that there are things that like if things if you if you take these roller skates out of the box and the wheels are square, you would think that. Wow, this doesn't I'm no engineer. But it seems as though this was something that they could've taken one look at before. They started building them at saying. Yeah. I don't I don't wanna say if you're a Samsung engineer who worked on the galaxy fold. I'm not saying you didn't do your job. Well, I'm just saying that there seemed to be some early problems. Like again, a lot of CNBC super soon problem. Yes. So CNBC and the verge reported that their phone their phones died like within a couple of days. Meaning that all they did was like folded and unfolded and now half the half of the screen is loud. Now broken like there's like flashing spasmodically as if to say kill kill kill me. Kill me. Kill me. The. And that's bad. Another problem. That's is beautiful. I miss this. I miss when the world was so simple that this was the biggest thing that would happen all day. Sorry, keep going and e is just this is bringing me back to a simpler time in the world. You know, when when phones could explode in people's pockets, and that was the biggest thing to happen. I just I missed the who stays. Because there's we. The thing is. So it takes so many years for something truly new and revolutionary to come along. And I mean that sincerely I'm not poking fun at the concept of folding phones. I mean that we forget that the first multi touch devices were re it took a long time for them to get that technology, straight and the first smartphones. It took them a long time to get that really going even the first, laptops. Where like, okay, we're going to do a let as battery we're gonna and it's going to weigh about as much as a packed suitcase. And so, but what we get now is that we're now in the if we buy a smartphone multi touch smartphone. We get something that's been hammered on for the past ten years. It's going to if you don't spend. If if you don't spend less than a hundred bucks, you're gonna get a great perfect example of this. Same thing for notebook same thing for a lot of tablets is just going to work. But this is so there's some early growing pains, I think we can. Say so please ask me why my eyes were just bugging out a second ago, and I will tell you what your is just book notice. It can go. Did you see? You see? No, I I don't think we have scorpions appear my partner in California. I know we do in the desert. No. But I was looking at the protective film top gun. I got a I have to I have to take this one myself because I'm sorry. I'm just ushering us in there. But I just scroll down on the article, you laying ten this is a big Easter basket that you just don't know where to start because it's so much joy. If you enjoy like funny things that are happening to multibillion dollar technology coffees. So you're so you start that's just the for the starters. You have phones at just playing seemed to be dying. Okay. Then you go into again, the square the square wheel roller skate thing marker, both Mark Gherman at Bloomberg and Marcus Brownlee, both people who are not inexperienced in the least at dealing with technology. So, you know, how you buy if you buy a new phone, and there's of course, they put like a screen protector on it that, you know, for shipping purposes. So does that Mary? Nice add. Yeah. Exactly. And you see them all the time. So you instinctively just like take the corner of it and peel it. Right off. Well, Mark Gherman and Marcus Brownlee. Both did that they did not realize that this screen protector that looked like a simply simply shipping screen protector was apparently structural in origin, and they both of their phones broke because they've removed or tempted to remove that screen protector. And again, if this were something that consumers were being bitten by I would say, I I would still say this is a design fault. But the fact that matter that these are not people that are like the clearly if they tried to take these off, it's obvious. This is just a shipping screen protector. If they manage to start peeling them off, they are also the sort of people that if I well, I can't believe I require a razor blade and a heat gun to pull off the shipping. No, I feel as though if it were on the way that like an integral part of the slayers supposed to be a fixed. They would have stopped trying to pull this thing off. I can't help. But think. Think that this is something that most consumers are going to try to do as well. And I can't imagine what this plastic. I can imagine that this this looks like sorta late edition when they were testing out when they had like a hundred thousand samples and the realize that every single damn one of these screens were going scratched like when they're being folded and unfolded, we have to put something on the top of the screen to make sure that the screen doesn't get doesn't get scratch because remember they can't have a grill glasses guerrilla glasses working on a flexible glass that would work on this sort of thing, but doesn't exist yet. So we're talking about bare plastic so they so obviously at the last minute Samsung, put some sort of like actual permanent adhesive sort of thing. I think it's it's the thing that's supposed to hold the screen together. I don't think it was supposed to be removed at all. I think I don't I I'm not gonna guess this. This is. I'm totally guessing meeting. I don't know what's going on here. I'm not an engineer. I'm just telling you from my perspective. The seems like exactly the thing that's supposed to hold. This thing together. Maybe I if it's so easy to remove. I would I would I'm visiting charitable in saying that I would like to think that Samsung would not make something that is so integral I I it seems like something that they add at the last minute. And then the act the of was not strong enough to keep it bonded to somebody who is trying to remove it without much difficulty. But it is enough that when you pull added it puts stress on the panel and destroys it. But that's that's terrible. That's that's again, something that you look at the square wheel on your roller skate that you're about to ship and say, well, obviously that shouldn't be, sir. I am, sir. Indoor madams, I think that we're going to have to delay. This a month in month or two because this is going to cause problems for consumers and not just for a handful of consumers that we can then berate for peeling this wrong. I think that we're going to be. Dinged for this. Another problem that people are mentioning is that there it's there bumps on this flexible screen like the hinge air covering the hinge area that it looks like from photographs that it's some sort of part of the hinge mechanism that sitting just a little bit proud of the surface. So that the screen can't just simply paper over it. It has the bulge a little bit to accommodate it. And not like not as a design thing. I'm talking about it seems as though the design tolerance of that. Particular example of hardware was a little bit off. And the screen was not designed to paper over that bump, and then people are that's causing the screen to crack when they fold at an unfolded. Which is again, another thing that call the control people at on the production line would say, Ooh, I can actually visible see that. There's a bump there in the middle of the screen, and that this thing is not going to survive being folded. Unfolded in for a two thousand dollar minimum phone people are going to be disappointed with this. Yeah. That's a last three hundred thousand folds, by the way, also the hinges fine. It's the screen screwed up the full the hinge three thousand times, no problem. Sure. Just only three hundred thousand times, that's it. No. I actually was looking up. I saw I was going through the comments of this article. Which will we will put in our show notes. It's gizmos. Article of which is great somebody posted a picture that there is actually a warning sign on the fold. That says the main screen includes a special protective layer peeling off the protective layer or using any pieces on the main screen such as screen protector or stickers may cause damage. I mean, it's the plastic display. So that's that's how it's folding. It's just whatever bomber this. Again. The fact that was Mark Gherman, Marcus Brownlee that missed the miss the warning sicker or me, or I will I will also allow the for the possibility that like Marcus Brownlee, particularly is super super high profile you to tuber sh he would be amongst maybe six to eight people that I would think of as what marketing companies would think what marketing departments would think of as a superstar like tech commentator slash longer slash youtuber. So perhaps they so if it's like the other times that I've been candid hardware like this. It's possible that they didn't give them a box shrink wrap fresh off the line device that they opened up they prepped it. And make tested it to make sure that okay? Marcus Brownlee, whose views gets two million two million views on the on the first day. Let's make sure he doesn't there isn't like a dead rat somewhere in the box open up the spots. Let's make sure that it's charged on a per cent. So maybe it's possible that when they were preparing this that was like a sticker are warning that was supposed to be on there. But they removed it for the purpose of showing him this phone. But again, it seems like L also the fact that they were able to peel it off without trying without trying to say, let's try to take this thing. Apart means that I have to wonder what happens after three or four months in my pocket that things that are not well at here tend to come apart at the corners, and they tend to come more part. And just the just the fact that this is happening at all. You're gonna have a lot of really disappointed people who spent two thousand dollars. On even even like, I I was one of those people that not only did I like get an iphone one for review, I actually preordered one. 'cause I wanted I knew that. I wanted like my next phone to be the iphone. So right. Well, I mean, I so has result. I accepted the fact that this is going to be to g not three it's not gonna be as capable as a blackberry. It's not gonna be as capable as a as a palm phone. I'm gonna accept all of these things. But what I do what I want to believe is that when I'm even as an early adopter, the features that are there are going to work, and that it's not gonna break within a month. That will make me feel extremely minus 't as a consumer. Well, this is going to be fun to wash for my couch with a bag of popcorn. Sorry to to those who have worked hard on this. I don't mean to relish in in the unfortunate press surrounding. I just mean to say that, you know, you know, me I love good drama. I do. Good melodrama. This is definitely in accordance with the things that I love I'm sure they're retail partners or going to be really really happy the detailing being the frontline for sponsors people who again spent two thousand dollars on well, very well hyped luxury phone, I mean, look if Samsung was fine after the whole note seven thing, I think they will be fine after this. Plus. I mean, it's kind of cool. We have folding phones now crew. So that's where we're at now in life, which I would say his win for all of us. Even those of us with screens that are crackling. It's still super interesting idea Gizmodo. Hasn't posted there in review yet. Of course goes again, everybody's have them just for two or three days now. But there I look like after like a day or two hands on after an another article noting that no there are our sample phone is fine. But there I look piece is headlined damn quote damn could Samsung galaxy fold be worth it and they make and the the rear makes against us. A first look makes the point that it's a really compelling design that they really like having this allbeit really really tall folded up phone tall and thick full that phone their pocket, but like being able to simply carry on the quick thing that they were doing on the front screen and turn it into something. Approximating ipad, mini and be able to continue directly from their of the other thing that everyone was worried about as soon as real pictures of this thing came out a month or two ago is that yes, there is a visible like. Valley above the hinge of this device. So there's like it's not like a perfectly flat screen, but guess Moto says that you can't not notice it. But you after you quickly learn to ignore it. It's not something that like interferes with your operation on the thing. So maybe by the time generation to generation three of these things come on. This isn't going to be like three d television where it was just a dumb idea to cell phones under appear to be innovative. Without any compelling reason for this thing to exist that maybe this will be a really good idea that will allow us to make super compact phones for small pockets that unfold into a traditional size phone or as a way to even if it's not even just a tablet, not a phone to have like a nine point, seven inch, windows, windows, tablet, or nine point seven inch chrome tablet that can easily be folded in half and be stuck in jacket pocket as opposed to something that commands. Some sort of a bag all the time. So we'll see I think it'll be a while before ever it'll be a while before I think we can write about this technology without mentioning paragraph. One full the ble SCR small LED screens came up to an inauspicious start in April of twenty nine teen as the first generation galaxy folds where prone to cracking and failure after only a couple of days. While. Yes. So fun. Yeah. But again, it's still it's still exciting. We forget that. There was a time where there were no, laptops. And there were no like super, slim, laptops. That was a it was a pain in the butt to use the first ones and some of them didn't work very well. And that that's okay. You're not required to spend your tax refund on on a brand new foldable phone, if you did you be you. But maybe you shouldn't have maybe you could have used that to pay down debt or again. Air that keeps making those north zone. Just say. D- do the annual the check for dead mice in the back. When talking about that here anti. You see we may complain about this new immature foldable technology, but life goes on and sometimes life is snuffed out in the back of a refrigerator as in. It's. Speaking of life going on. So the fortunately the fire at Notre Dame in in Paris turned out to be bad. But not as horrible as we think everybody who saw the video was worrying about the turns out that it was the wooden roof that was destroyed it was undergoing renovations. And so a lot of the treasure sort of stuff had already been taken down and moved out the they lost the entire spire. But all of the figures are on that spire that would have been lost when it collapsed had already been taken down and packed up and moved out for days earlier, and and also make balk people making the point that an eight hundred year old building has had a number of renovations and disasters and repairs over the years. And so it's not as though all the stuff through many, many unfortunate wars. Yes. So so so so thank goodness. It's gonna take a while to rebuild it and fix it up. But it wasn't. I think. Seeing I think we all like looking at those at the live videos, or like, oh, God all the walls gonna collapse in and then everything's gonna it's just they're just going to have to build a brand new cathedral in the shape of the old cathedral. So that's not going to happen. So we can so we can look at and thank goodness. Nobody was killed or even hurt. It looks like in the fire, which is another thing that seemed miraculously given that it was a big tourist thing victory diffraction and has happened during tourist hours. Apparently, they had enough sensors that when they were they lost no time in getting people out of there when there's smoke a smoke detector had gone off. And that was okay before we even know where this is coming from. We are going to empty the sucker out lately. So it's nice. It's nice. When people appreciate that. There are safety rules for a reason. And that you're the reason the rule is in place. So that at the time you don't have to even decide gosh. Should I take all the people out of the structure are not like? We don't even have to think about that. We can just take everybody out of the cathedral. But there couple of Google Jason topics that I thought were interesting and to me when the first things I noticed one of the most interesting ones was of course, I went to the New York Times dot com site to take a look at what's the what's actually going on. What's the actual information out surprised to find that their highlight photo was actually taken from Google earth? So they had a sort of a split screen sort of photo composite of on the right hand side of the screen was what turned out to be really really famous picture from in Langston via the European press photo photo agency, which is turn out to be like, but most people ran with because it looked like a drone view almost workers given that the it was the the roof that was the most engaged by fire. So gives you a really great angles. Let you appreciate where the fire was on. What was what was burning and as split screen with next to that? Again, was obviously a Google earth three day view, when of course, Google earth was credited as the origin of that image. I just thought it was interesting because Notre Dame is has it's not it's not one of these things were cautious too bad that no one has any pictures of this thing it's got to be as a world heritage site. It has to be one of the most photographed places in the world there. I saw a lot of people's perspectives on Instagram this week, for instance, a lot of people showing pictures of their vacations going ten twenty years ago. I thought it courtesy that that was absolute it didn't make sense to me originally until I realized that if you're trying to tell the story of how bad this fire is you kind of need before an. A before and after and so the idea that they're going to their instinct is going to be to go rather than try to find a photo of Notre Dame from this kind of weird angle that is it's not the famous like contract Notre Dame towers sort of angle it's from the backside of it that they said, well, we can go we can basically go we have a copy of the planet. On our computer right here shale, and we simply put a camera wherever we want it. So they managed to generate an image. That was actually surprisingly good. You had to look at it a little bit carefully before you kind of see that trademark blob Innis of a Google this show out. So that you will be able to see exactly what we are talking about. Yes. And a so kindly took a screen shot for us. Yes. But then it shows you how much work they how much work Google earth. Does if it is again, a popular tourist X tourist destination and world heritage site. They're going to make make sure that they have aerial imagery up the was Oooo out of it. So it really is nearly photographic. And again make sense that they would say, well, how do we how do we show people? What's how much of this structure is being affected? Okay. We'd rather than spending. And this is a developing story. We can't take the time to find someone who hopefully happened. Taken exactly the right shot at any time in the past. But again, we can simply send send a virtual drone to take a virtual picture of the virtual Notre Dame and put it up there. I think that I just think that's interesting. I'll but the other the other thing that was as as trying to like. Look at this story that so I went to the Google image. The near time shot is credited to the original photographer and to shudder stock which makes sense because shutter stock like we'll like sub-license libraries from other places. So apparently, the original licenser of that image of as as taken by in Langston was the European press photo agency, but then shutter stock sub-licensed to make it available to people you shutter stock so trying to track down the the original source of that image. Of course when into shutter stock and did do Google due to a site. Search for Notre Dame fire at kind of scared me because. A lot of people had made fake photos of Notre Dame on fire like taken an existing photo of Notre Dame. That was taken obviously when it was not on fire, and like added adobe after-effects to it to make it look like the entire structure were on fire, and it it's it's easy. It's easy to imagine. How that happened where they're people who knew that people are going to be looking for looking to license. Pictures of the Notre Dame fire. I'm here in Nebraska. I'm not I don't have not taken pictures of it. But just so that I'm going to create an image to put up there. So that people do a search for this image? They they'll find mine and license it out but in doing so they would create entirely the wrong impression of no-no. It's not just this wooden wooden roof on this one section. No, the entire structure that looks like it was made out of stone. It's actually made out of paper machine. Painted a look like stone because even the toddlers. Selves are inflames fully. It's like, oh, this could end badly for news gathering. If people are not paying close attention. Yeah. It was really it was it was bummer news. I have never been to Paris. So I've never seen this feat in person. I just know that it really resonated with a lot of people around the world. And I think it's I think it's fascinating the way it's fascinating. How quickly the internet can move. Along with what is happening in real time. I think we used to think that maybe the internet had to be updated to keep up not so anymore. Satellites and part of it. I think is going to be that there's going to be so many operators. That are like there must be a way that I can make some money off of this. Even if I have pictures video there must there must be some lay that I can like relabel, my Betty, white golden girls tribute video compilation of times where she was holding a coffee Cup and say, maybe retitled this Notre Dame tribute video fire, I'll get more views and therefore get more ad money. I mean that's waiting to do as CEO. But for we go to the commercial one one thing that we talked about Notre Dame has to be mentioned tubes. Algorithm. Again, when left to its own devices ninety nine percent of times does a really good job. But you know, they're those one percent of the times where that needs human intervention. And and so apparently, they were we've talked earlier about how Google to make sure that people are not free to spread misinformation on YouTube. If it sees certain hot button conspiracy or controversial topics. It will add like a little like information box next to it. And so at pedia says exactly so. Again, I won't be like a teacher who is who aknowledges the good hard work and the garage is that although the students screwed up they had the best intentions. I could see where they failed so share the YouTube algorithm was looking at spectres of Notre Dame with columns of smoke pouring out of it. And again, the place where the tourists come in and the place where people take their pictures. It's definitely to like block, easy, rectangular spires, and they looked at that. And the YouTube album said ooh, this must be nine one one World Trade Center video. So let's make sure we have a Wikipedia fact box about the attack. Again, I knew it was trying we have to we have to rather than punish it. We're going to try to instruct it. And this was this was -tunities. Yeah. That was just it's just it's just a reminder that the machines are not perfect, and they are programmed entirely by us. So if we do not program it to go left. It will not go left. I'm to see. And of course, of course, human human people at at YouTube, intervene, not not after too long. But of course, they're getting all kinds of flack over it. I just I this is I think this is this is really a good indication of how uneducated people are they figure that. Oh, well, it's a fan super sophisticated artificial intelligence machine learning algorithms and all these. Yeah. It's like it's like, there's actually I think the Washington I think it was a Washington Post article that actually used a phrase that kinda got me got my hackles up a little bit saying any human being would have seen at a at a set of first glance that this wasn't that. I'm nine one video said, yes, that's the point. It's an algorithm that if you give them to block tower side by side with fires and smoke. It's gonna think where have I seen that before? That's right. I've seen the World Trade Center. So I think part of it is part of the problem, of course, created by technology companies by hailing artificial intelligence and machine learning as this magical, magical, whistle dusts. They've soon as you sprinkle it over the thing at automatically becomes perfect and awesome. And amazing. When again, it's still software. It's still either works or doesn't when it doesn't work. It can not work in the most amusing and hysterically out of proportion fashion. And I'm more willing to use this as an. As an opportunity to educate people that just because something has machine learning in it doesn't mean it's going to necessarily work a lot better than anything else. It's not it's not even so much that it works better than something else. So much as it can do something that nothing else could do just at the same rate of failure at which any other piece of software does a mundane thing. Shelly I think we shall shell. This episode of material is brought to you by our brilliant friends over at pinged them paint them, his brilliant because they help keep your site and the sites you love online, ping monitors your site. So you don't have to and gives you real time feedback. So you know, exactly what's going on at all times. The internet is awesome. But stuff does break all the time. Pinged undetected around thirteen million outages every month that's more than four hundred thousand outages a day. It doesn't matter if you're a startup or fortune five hundred company union alerts about any critical website issues paint them, let you customize how you are alerted depending on the severity of an outage, plus the track analyze your websites low time, so you can see what's feting the user experience. If you have a site of any size, you need pinged them and pink has a no fuss approach to getting started. All they need is the euro you want to monitor and they will take care of the rest, so go to paint them dot com slash relay FM right now for fourteen day free trial with no credit card required. Then when you sign up use the code much aerial at checkout to get a huge thirty percent off your first invoice are paying for their support of this show and relay FM. Floor. Are you still using your Google clips camera? Just reminded you the. Exactly. You just reminded me that it's over there by my pokey ball, which I also spent money on saying that I would keep a Pokemon with me at all times to be fair. I've anyway, why do you ask Andy? Actually, no really want to know why you promise to have a pokey ball with you at all times. Well, things that keeping the the bracelet tracking. This is how you raise them. This is how you carry them around with. You the bookie balls a controller for the sixty for the the switch all my gosh. The end sixty four. I just I just had to know. So. The. The good news about people who did not like me who were tempted to buy Google clips camera. This was that camera that little tiny little square of technology with lens. That all the no I paid two hundred fifty I have a habit of painful price for things. That's that's how you can trust flow. She'd pays does not accept this chance. She's not in the pockets of anybody. But so's that camera that you just stick it on a chair in the living room while like your kids play with your thanksgiving. Use it the last time I used it was thanks no skis me Christmas did getting to pictures with. It was literally just pictures of me and my husband opening gifts. Chris like how dynamic, and, but you know, someday, I'll look back at those pictures ago. Gosh, I'm so happy for them. So well, so they're the reason why it's back in the news now is not because they've started exploding or because there was some sort of security breach affecting owners of Google clips camera. But even if you like my like me, you're tempted at two hundred fifty dollars, and then tempted again when they dropped the price to one hundred twenty five dollars apparently just to get rid of stock, but still does silt and pull the trigger because you're insure how you would actually use it. You are going to be the beneficiary of Kuka clips because according to Google artificial intelligence blog post, they're adding a bunch of smarts that they learned from the clips camera to these standard Google camera app for six pixel three for photo booth mode. I'll let the blog post explain we worked with photographers to identify five key expressions that should trigger caps. And by the way, haven't used photo booth mode, or if you don't have a pixel this is a special camera mode where instead of having for for primarily for the selfie camera. Where so instead of having to tap the the button itself yourself photo booth mode will decide when okay, there's the cameras and being jiggled. It looks like everybody's looking at the camera. It looks like everybody's smiling. And now, I will take a picture or I'll take a sequence of fishers and choose the best one. So this is they they informed by the Google clips camera information, they figured out we work, the talk I identify five key expressions that should trigger capture smiles tongue out kissy slash duck face puffy cheeks and surprise we then trained a neural network to classify these expressions, the kissed detection model used by photo booth is a variation of the image content model train for Google clips fine. Tune specifically to focus on kissing, you know, at the Google clips and also the pixel threes photo booth mode. Doesn't do. It doesn't do Email mode. Okay. Because I don't take photos wall smiling that is a fool's game. All right. There's nothing to smile about. All right. The world's imperil, folks. Wake up pictures, you should be taking our view looking seriously into the camera. Like, you are ready. Buckle AP's be. Honestly, I I love to take a moody photo, and it just work for that. Which is a real bummer because then I have to end up taking seven shots of myself. My life is so hard nosy. I hadn't thought about that. But you're absolutely right. Because I I was I was bummed about that. And then I noticed that once I smiled like, I turned my my serious look into or my stone cold like fashion star look into like, a cheesy smile totally worked which I thought like, but this is not what I'm going for like this is photo booths doesn't necessarily mean smiling, folks. It's also because it's it's about time for me to like thin out the people I subscribed to on Instagram because usually it's really just I on like Twitter, I limit Mesa Graham, just friends and just family members and occasionally some like friends of friends and like neighborhood people get in there. And there is there's one person that I followed a couple of years ago with particular that since we just talked about the fire at Notre Dame that I know that if she's any if she visits Notre Dame and the next three or four years there's going to be an Instagram picture where she was so sad. So moved by this that she put on a very sad moved face and took a selfie of herself in front of the devastation showing people how sad and how. Posted smiling in front of the holocaust memorial. Berlin. Yes. This that's kind of smarts that I'm. Yeah. Exactly. I would like them awful to know. Absolutely. Do not smile at here Shema. I'm so glad you went. Why? Okay. This is not what we're talking about here. I'm sorry. Actually, I think this is this is a big part of the discussion that the. There should be bite default like a sensitive concerned an involved parent mode, and you can go into the settings and turn it off by by default, it'd be turned on and because this because even when photo booth mode is not on it can sense when someone is smiling and also has location data to say that. Okay. You're at of really really in Iraq, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, or again, you're you're in her Oshima or you're in like when a holocaust site. Are you sure you wanna take a selfie of yourself smiling at this really really impo? We will let you do that. But we feel as though we want to know for ourselves that we told you that this might be wildly inappropriate. Also, you seem you seem to be top of what what many locals napalm all considered to be a sacred mountain, and I can see. See both of your nipples, and I can also see your boyfriend's, but crack again, I kind of want to feel that I wouldn't be doing my job as a nine hundred dollars smartphone. If I didn't warn you that most people will find this outrageously offensive and that job or that, internship that you just got a Cording to what you've just posted to Twitter, Facebook Instagram will very likely be rescinded if you post this someday Andy some day. This is what the algorithms are going to do for us. They're going to weed out the maybe well. That's why I would label this feature the concerned involved and help full parent. Like, the problem is that parents at some point. Unfortunately, you lose your parents, and I've not become I've we're talking about this briefly before the show I was talking about this briefly before the show that there's the phenomenon of these sixty eight to seventy four year old man who's got the seventy four year old body and the seventy four year old face. With the drooping years ripple drooping nose the I was alive for fifty three years before the invention of sunblock on top of everything else. And yet they've got a jet black moustache and go, tea, and and jet, black eyebrows. I would again, I feel just like my mom correctly told me that I was getting too old to be wearing a ponytail. And I that I pre- she'd that I've just wasn't ready to cut it off yet. Like, I. Unfortunately, by the time, I'm seventy four my parents will I will not be like not be thirty years older than me that they will not be around at that point. They can't say son. Here's a picture of John Travolta, and he was ten years younger than you. And he had much better skin-care than you. And even he looks like an idiot like this. I would like to think that for an her dollar smartphone. It wouldn't refuse to post. It would say. Why don't I? Okay. I've before I save this to the camera. Roll what I'm gonna do is. I'm gonna hold onto this for twenty four hours. And then I'm gonna show it to you and twenty four hour, get friends or a good grant. Or if you have if you have a husband or a wife spouse of any kind someone who is sort of a co responsible you're responsible for each other because your partners. I'm gonna let Dave see this before we put this before we let you use any app because I have a feeling that he's going to be a lot more sensitive about this that any algorithm could possibly be also duck face. No, no, no, no, no, no minute. I if you if you don't mind, Andy, I would like to close out with our last little news to bit because this is particularly exciting for me because the week of Google IO is also the week of my birthday. Oh, that's exciting. Everybody. Celebrate me. And also on may seventh where apparently going to be celebrating some new hardware from Google. So there was a splash screen on the Google store that is kind of been shown around couple of the couple of fan sites. Couple the tech sites. The news is going around that there is a pixel three and three axle coming probably most likely something big is coming to the pixel universe says this teaser, I don't know if the big thing is as big as we think it is. It's possible. It's just really big discount on a phone with a really great camera because every the rumors are basically that these pixel three as or going to be cheaper versions of the pixels that we have now. And by that, I mean, pixel corps visual processor, the thing. The thing that makes all the magic happened. The thing that makes me miss my pixel. This is why I want it back in my life. I miss. All those photos. It was taking so the crumbled bacon on your on your salad. Absolutely is edible without it. It's fine without it. But oh my God. Do you miss it? If you if they suddenly take off them you. Yes. Absolutely. And so may seventh is the Google Keno day. So everybody kinda put that in your calendar. You know, what planned to get your favorite soft drink that day and just kinda liked Tucker. And we'll just we'll see what Google has for us that day. Also, there is a rumor that that is the day that will possibly see Google officially announce that it will have Ness branded assistant products. Supposedly, maybe they've may has already happened. Or is it like one of those leaks? That's now ceremony. There was like a Google store page, and then it was taken down. And so now, it's just kind of conjecture that it's going to be. I think it'll probably be softly announced. It'd be one of those things where soon Dar's catching us up on everything, and he'll just casually mention that. Oh, and now nest rand devices bubble, blah, I feel like that's how we're going to get that particular announcement. I think the pixel three as though I think there's going to be a little more to that one. Wouldn't it be interesting to by the way, the hardware giveaway? Google. Oh has been. Gomez which is great. But I wonder if this is going to be a big if away for the developers you haven't had like an Oprah scale giveaway for years, the famous for whatever you spent whatever you spend soft by the wave, Microsoft builds. It used to be like oh years a console. Here's this. Here's a surface like. Have when I saw the something big is coming coming to the pixel universe. I was kinda hoping this. This was a ri- way of saying oh, a tiny little pixel smartwatch. That's been rumored for quite some time. But that's just speculation after having spent so many months of late last year seeing purported to be no, no, no, this is really we have pictures of the thing. And then no announcement on. I I hope that there are there's at least some news about where OS. Maybe even coming in the form of by the way, we have we have entered into agreement with Qualcomm. So that every month in which they don't ship to us a truly like mount modern twenty nineteen era CPU for our smart watches that delivers at least half the performance of the chips inside the apple watch. We get to take senior executive into the back of the parking lot and just fire paint balls at them for five minutes. It's not not. We're not going to be mean about it that they're allowed to have regular paintball protective equipment. We will be going directly for the groin. So they're telling them that did trillion with. But just as any Lau. Hey, no, no one's going to want to be hit by paintball. So we're hoping that this finally gives the motivation to not give us twenty thirteen to twenty fifteen era comebacker controller technology for our flagship, wearable. Perhaps that would help us out a lot the other see the, but the thing that could be most supporting is that they could be simply referring to marvel avengers and emoji. Because of course, when you click on this link it does take you to the Google these g play moti sorry about. Yes. Are they play your this is again, I got Google BS emoji marketing thing confused with Apple's Bs LA. For goes are are you can introduce insert battles disown, much cooler. I had so I was bored on a train trip. And I was in the cafe cars had this big table in front of me. And so I wound up like putting the childish Gambino play Moji. On the table. And then like having captain America at a stormtrooper just for us. Whereas childish Gambino play g does a lot of singing and dancing. Captain America is a lot of the stoically like standing there and observing and shifting his balance from one to another which is a lot more fun to play within Luke a flow. I am speaking to you. And I look like unique coup or look I could see my thumbs thinking out, the there's a fun when where you can actually type out a phrase and have it follow along those are fun, by the way. You're speaking me while my pixel bag I tried to play with those Samsung, whatever Moji thinking jigs they have in their UI. And it's just creepy thing were like turns your face into an emoji as like. I made some funny little how I was amused for like half an hour. But I made a little a couple of music videos that I was just like playing around. I was procrastinating. I want this actually like Samsung's annual marketing campaign themes like you'll be amused by it for half an hour. And that was last it was last year's campaign anything. Anything? This year folding spring scanner we folding screens you'll be amused by for about a half an hour. Yes. Until it breaks physically then you'll be furious about it for much longer than half an hour. Yeah. So is there anything else that you're particularly looking forward to this is as as we said of the Repub the show, this is show one hundred ninety nine next week is epic show two hundred which we have prerecorded. So that we have certain special guests are this. This is our last chance to have a talk about Google before Google show. And I've already said that what I'm no, no, no, we'll have one more chance next. We will not next week the week after that. When are we post on may second K because I was like I was probably thinking that you're probably going to be busy traveling and people are going to be coming into town and friends of yours are going to be like, oh, let's go. Let's go get together because you know, your flu I on friends busy. Everybody's too busy to hang out these days. Yeah. No, no. I am not heading down there until the Monday before the keynote so may sixth. So we have time Indy. We have time for all of our conjectures and our hopes and dreams to see if they will be realized and then then I will do a podcast from Google. And I don't know how that's going to go. But we'll see how many birds Jim has to edit out. Thank you, Jim for to all of the wonderful work that you want our podcast, you will treat one thing for sure you will render that portable recorder tax deductible. Can't really. Too hard at that. Because tax day was this last one day a couple of days ago. I just. Folks, I gotta tell you being a freelancer do your taxes is hell, but in any case that marks the end of our ship will be writer, this DeVos. So so next week. You definitely want to tune in for gala two hundred episode. Yes, please do it's really good. By the way. It was really really really really good really really a lot of fun. Not nut news heavy. We intentionally just had a long really wonderful conversation with friends of ours and friends of yours. So you'll like it a lot I will leave. You wanna cliffhanger that? My responsibility. When one of my one of my responsibilities when recording the show is that I'm the person who records not only like my own audio. But like the audio of the backup audio for everybody. And so I there was a moment late in the recording where my computer froze up and I'm talking about right? And and I'm talking and I'm talking about like if you have the it's especially scary. When you have a modern MAC book that has like the the haptic track track pad. We're not it's not cliquey button. I had times where like my computer froze for a while. Because I don't know because chrome got really really busy with memory. And but that's okay. Because this because I my the thing is you click on the keyboard? And since if you still feel that synthetic but completely convincing click. You know that okay, things aren't so bad. It's when as happened last week, or they're courting I tap on the tap. On the captive tack frac that and just feels like a sheet of glass like this could be occuren- panic, and it's seemed to continue recording. After it recovered after a few few seconds later, and it seemed to save the file correctly. And I seem to have a recorded and file for that for my again, not just the backups for everybody. But also, my primary recording. But I decided that if I were to if if it turns out that something got screwed up, and that native those files are recoverable or playable that's not something that we can fix at any point. So why ruin this wonderful feeling that I had at the end of recording session by knowing that oh that was all for nothing because I'm going to have to basically let Jim assemble the entire show with happen. Then they'll simply add in what I think that I said. So I'm gonna leave a cliffhanger. I'm the this week. I'm going to have to because we have to Jim has to edit the show like the the next week. I will now finally look at those files and determine if it as I suspected it's all fine. Or if I'm going to have to come up with one hell of a plan b now I I'm going to make you listeners this promise that if it turns out that I had to fake and dub in all of my what I remember or what I think should be my responses to what is now lost and missing audio. I will probably like I will use some sort of amusing accent to call attention to the fact to make myself sound much much sillier to sort of punish me like all the little wonderful that would know that two hundred material podcast gift number one. Do you? Remember what? With like episode three. That's great. The mad Hatter is come to. I love to laugh loaded long and clear. So we have again, I wanna leave you on that cliffhanger. If if it weren't enough of an issue of an enticement that's as the epoch gala two hundred. Cliffhanger will Andy have to do the entire thing. Like, Edwin tune in to find out you've got you've got seven days to to stew on that. Until then flew anything to plug. Anything mentioned anything to hype. I have nothing to hype I have nothing to plug. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. No, no coulda Florence dot com. A blog at least once a week gut these podcasts, you know, about which are great listened to me. They're in here and there in here and. Come to discord. Talk. There. We talked there. You've gotta discord. Yeah. It's fun for all the people that I think dischord is now for all the people who were like need to be punished for saying. Oh, I don't do Email like I do all my talk even on slack. Like, oh, well, you're still on slack. I have a you. Don't have your discord. Okay grandpa. I'm not any slack except for our podcast slacks because I don't have a job. I don't if you had. See that's a good point. Because if you had a job you would need something to fill all the goof off time three to five hours out of your work day, which would be on company slack. As freelance self employed people, we're just taking food out of her own mouths, if we just off on select, well, I'm not going to be on Austin NPR tomorrow Thursday because tomorrow, the Miller report to the rejected version of the mule report comes out and the show that I'm normally occupied thirty minutes of has decided that they might need some more time to talk about whatever gets revealed, I countered with the producers saying that. Well, I was going to talk about how apple smartwatch might factor. Into the Mueller investigation. I had a good twenty minute hunk on like great podcasts. Listen to while. You're working out. How it could track your EKG as you get angrier and angrier reading the details that were not. Mentioned in the official summary. But hey, if you think that that's relevant or that's just self. That's just self aggrandizing. Sure. We can do it the next day. So I'm going to so on Friday twelve thirty ish to one is as usual tweet out links to where you can listen to stuff but go to not go dot com. Not going Twitter or not go on Instagram for all of that lovely stuff as usual few tweet at us at material podcast. We will see it. We will respond to what you also Email us go to relate, not FM slash material. That's also good place. If you want to throw more money in our individual and collective hats. We enjoy getting money we find again as journalists rapidly. Collapsing market. We are very job. We on my. My god. If you if you had like, an ace six headband on could magin that you're one of my older sisters when you say that. Oh, you have no job. Like, no. I have a job. Oh you worked for yourself. That's just saying you don't have a job. Listen you. Thanks everybody for tuning in this way. Just thank you for listening this week. We hope you listen to next week until then have a really wonderful seven days.

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Indoor Salad Gardening

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:12:57 hr | 1 year ago

Indoor Salad Gardening

"Inch by INCH ROBOT GONNA make this Garden Malraux all it takes is a ring and the piece of fertile ground rule by Rollo Someone bless he seeds someone warm them from the low to rain. Yes it is time for in the garden with Peterberg author of Year Round Indoor Salad Gardening our program today is brought to Hubei Minority Mugabe family true value your neighborhood yard garden and pet place Brooklyn Street in Morrisville by Grow Compostela Vermont online at grow compost dot com and just down the road from US route two in more town by the willies store in Greensboro. Oh you're true value store right there near Caspian. Lake guys farmyard with four locations to serve you. Montpellier Morrisville Williston and Saint Alban Clawson's flourished greenhouse and perennial farm on Main Street in Colchester and still with those fabulous mega Monday coupons find classes dot com by PNR lumber locally milled lumber a family owned business on route fifteen in Walcott and by your locally owned month peel your amway seeds and feeds and so much more right there on route two in Montpellier and by Aziz flowers and garden shop such a wonderful place plan to stop out at vs flowers and garden shop on Main Street in Wakefield and right now how we say welcome to Peterberg Mall plugged in there. You could hear anything you know can't hear a thing okay well. This is can you hear me. I can hear you fine fine. Okay good well. That's I guess that's what we should have. A Jack is assisting and let's see any of those buttons there well. I don't know how about a second set of headphones well. I'm trying to mall but that's okay eh to start and you'll have to let me know when to stop okay. We'll we'll we'll. We'll didn't work this morning. During yeah I when I came in I was listening to Jack so I don't know we got another set of headphones yeah well. You know how how it is. Those things happen. I would never in that room so I'm not the one that's built talking. We can't blame come on in this room here. Boy I tell you the previous obvious set of equipment that was in here so to work out over the years yeah yeah well. One of the things I want to start out with was was was talking about year round indoor gardening. Why by Golly I. I have a book somewhere on that. Don't have it. I gave it to my brother but that's all right. We'll I actually started mine uh-huh and so we got so I have a piece in radishes and all kinds of great stuff in the all kinds of great stuff work again there we go yeah. Can you hear me all right. I think so all right all kinds of stuff peas radishes. Some flowers even have some broccoli grown and I set them out on the Oh the windowsill just this morning and so in another few days. I'll have salads right from windowsill one question. I've been meaning to ask you. Yes what is the most improbable sprout that makes still makes for a good salad additive in in probable sprout that well the French. Lintel makes a very good sprout and the zookeeper. I asked the question okay okay. It's in the in the in the back of the in the back of my book would have to check at the very end right. There's I put all of the ones that I've tried that I liked and oddly enough. I sorta figured since the sunflower seed with so nice and big that you grow so oh well probably hands down the most the most popular well it's Sorta neck and neck with peas grow very fast and of the fast growing up the seven ten days right in that range and from the time you plant to the time harvest and I have a I have a shelf that about my mud room that I use during the winter and it's twenty inches wide six feet tall and the bottom is three three shelves where I keep them because that's the real key. The real secret is having four days in the dark and if if there's one thing you learn from from the book that's it right there and if you if you put them in the dark forces them and they start to grow and they grow these nice long stems so by the time you put them in in the light they grow they double in size and they have these wonderful stems on them and I I I just can't say enough good things about having an indoor garden and so when I started with the sunflower I thought well you know big seeds on a squash plant. I'll bet squash would be good. I'll old try squashes and all that kind of stuff and and Zucchini and anything that's got a great big sea that looks a lot like Pumpkin seed or whatever Oh man no they bitter. They're just awful. Are sprouts are concerned so so don't don't even bother and I mentioned that in the in the back of the book the things that I've tried that just didn't work out very well. It seems that It seems that we human salad eaters have the same taste as the crows in my backyard sunflower sprouts and sprouts. They're they're they are there you you know waiting in line with wearing their bibs. Is that's funny now. I didn't actually think of that but that's a good way to test a good sprout now. the crows rose love corn okay and I know that some people grow corn and usually they'll blanchet more or less they grow it in the in the dark the whole time so that the corn sprouts are actually yellow the shoots are yellow and that's where the harvest them and then there's another one fenugreek that that might surprise you to also gets very bitter when it Greens but as laws blanched and yellow is is still sweeten sweeten good so those work really well so if you think the gardening's over forget it. There's still plenty of things to plant and also it's time to start your are indoor gardening and nothing could B.'s. You don't need any lights. No pump snow recirculated. There's no nothing no special chemicals just a little bit of compost a little bit of seek help and that's what I use for fertilizer and you know I use I use very small trays when I first started just use the the half loaf of bread tin and the the whole loaf of bread tin that was my big my big tray and my little tray and in the little tray it takes a tablespoon of of of seeds and the big trae it's two tablespoons of seeds and from that you can expect about three ounces of green so from that from that shelf that I was talking about. I can harvest almost a pound a day from that so it's a very very productive garden in in just a few square feet. You're GonNa get a huge award and that'll be day after day after day. There's no reason you can't grow enough for her for harvest every day on on just a little bit of a of a shelf so for you salad eaters that will be the freshest thing thing regardless Just you know that you can possibly get even except for the fresh. Greens you get out of Your Garden of course so I still remain after all these years. I started in two thousand six. was that almost thirteen years doing it. a still find myself excited when I start planting again excellent we should we should mention that anybody would like further elaboration on this first of all first of all get. Peter's Book Doc and follow the directions because worked at all out but we're here for questions to ask comment about anything. Relating gardening neglected to mention the telephone numbers numbers. Yep Yep Eight. Oh two two four four one seven seven seven and a toll free from anywhere. This number works eight seven seven to nine one one eight two five five and if you want you can actually just listen live right on the right on the website yet. WD EV RADIO DOT com they go in and of course miss the show. There's always the podcasts the the ever-present podcasts my kids use podcasts all all the time so it's you know something. I've sort of started to enjoy and learn to enjoy so so year round indoor salad gardening's and name of the book All the our local bookstores either have it or have it on order if you don't see it on the shelf go up to the to the counter and say hey i. I need this book Year Round Indoor Salad Gardening by Peter Burkan appreciate Let's see a four the okay it's still time to to plant. I don't have a package Aceves to rattle but it is time to continue planting there are of varieties that and I mentioned the giant winter spinach was the one that that we talked about last last week in these are all available. These are the the names that some of them are common and some are are sort of proprietary the high mowing the cells one's called Verde and matador which are very good for short season still can be planted now without any problems Rubella Golden purse lane what they call Corn Salad is a common name in it's called match Matt Mash a match. Hey Hey Mitch as you know. I don't know how to pronounce it. Honestly I look at that okay so that's why I like the corn salad and then miner's lettuce that was as one ED's favorites the Klay Tonio seat called it miner's lettuce all very good cold season plantings that you can do do right now. Kale of all types it doesn't matter because all you wanted to do start to grow and you'll harvest it at five or six inches and have wonderful. Oh really tasty little Greens of course even you can do that with charred and and all kinds of of other early early lettuces there was one called hotshot which is a twenty one day lettuce. Can you believe that yeah early all types of early leaf lettuces and you can use either there you can look for the different kinds of Mexican Mixes Summer Lettuce Maximum Mitch's summer hot which has mustards in it all mustard. You can plant now so there's still plenty of the things to plant in the garden. Although right about now we had a little frost. You guys get frost up there. I have not had one very close though close also I went slightly inland. I noticed a guy scraping office windshield. Y- you know the eight foot top of the the trombone Zucchini that that got hit little bit on the beans. They got hit a little bit fortunate tomato seemed to be all fine and Kasan Mozzano are really starting to to to plump up and we've been we've been Harverson those for a couple of weeks. Now I haven't didn't have a lot of peppers but I left the ones that were there uh-huh to their ultimate color so it's actually quite pretty when I picked red ones and the yellow one thing they all kind of the yellow ones kind of start off greenish off color and the courts are green like regular green peppers but boy. I tell they are beautiful sitting there and I've done finally done the harvest yeah well we I stopped at the the farmer's market the route twin right there on route two and one hundred right near Red Hen bakery and they had those big what's the name of them are no no no well. They're about eight ten inches long or and they're at the at the at the top there about three inches around so my my son's fiancee now fiance Nikita loves roasted peppers and we've roasted peppers on the grill well a few times and so I got those and we stuffed them with with a stir fry with Rice. Oh Yum oh I've put everything I had in their era corn and some Chinese cabbage and just everything that I had a little bit of carrots and I made the stir fry and then we stuff the stuff those peppers you know right to the gills air and put the caps back on and then put them on the grill and roasted him wonderful so that was used by tiny little red hot peppers. I keep forgetting what they call but look like red buttons. I steam them for it. He got the little of the heat out of it yeah yeah and then then. I feel them with cabinet seriously sharp Cheddar Ooh and and and well I I normally put him on the outdoor grill but I was by myself just kind of roasted them in the oven for a minute or two just to melted cheese and boy. I tell you though luster you are talk it right there. Oh Yeah you know what I may have tried them. I'm going back to roots right after the show and getting some pickling cucumbers so I can make another couple of gallons of my two day pickles. We're we're all out so I let a some of my regular salad. Cucumbers go a little bit too far but we did. They grow big. They turned yellow. They're they're a little less good for salad now yeah. They're they're great for Gus Baccio. ooh. Oh what a great idea up put them in the blender along with your tomato garlic yeah so big a big out of Control Cooper still well. It's kind of like Thea. Romain Lettuce Romain Lettuce will start to bolt on you before you before you no it and if that happens well then think of it as as like an endive and which is a little bit little sharp you know little bitter and you can and use that in your in your soups you know I use that in a minister and soup the Romaine that started the bolt an intern a little bitter and it makes its grow a great eight green in a in a shoe so we make the best use of it as we come along them so Oh the other one turnips and radishes both of those very good right now. This is the time of year so anything that would plant in the spring. This is like spring being all over again so these are all cold season things that really like a really relish the the cooler the cooler temperatures you know lettuces a lot of lettuce anything over a certain temperature. It's too hot they don't they won't even sprout so this is the time to go ahead and replant although spring fitch us and and have a nice harvest and of course this time to to make sure sure you have your garlic I checked few sites before we came on the air and almost everybody is out of stock so if you haven't ordered online than than you're gonNA. I have to go to the farmer's market and find some some nice garlic there because most of the seed places are out of stock on a lot of a lot of the you know the Rojo and the music and you know the giant German white and all those really great great varieties the riots at that are hard neck the grow really well in Vermont pretty much out of stock so try your local farmers market and grab some garlic there and and you'd be ready to plant come next next month in October some time I usually she just mid October. It's when I usually plant let's see so ah Joel this is our last show of the year was going to mention that yeah we must but we must at some point eight and I just want to thank the sponsors for sure and if you go shopping in any of these sponsors you make sure please to tell them how much you appreciate the their sponsorship mantra ship because we love doing this show. We couldn't do it without them. And how much would you would enjoy to have back again next yeah. Well not that and I'm worried about. That worked out quite well but you know it's an uncertain world. I hadn't thought that far ahead. I haven't talked to LE-. Let let management know that the peasants will becoming porches in the middle of the night those Frankenstein movies. Oh lordy no we're looking back next for sure and but it's been a great garden season. I've really I have to laugh because my wife told one of our close friends and and said well you know pizza pizza and cut back a little bit this year and they came over for dinner last week and and pem says so this is how you cut back. This guard is a cutback car. You know I said Hey I just got started and I couldn't stop vicious my very first guard back. I heard very quick. We have a caller on the line. Let's see you're on the air with Peter. Your first name in town. Hi My name is Mike. Come in Waterbury. Hey Mike welcome aboard. We kind of do for you. Oh hoping you could elaborate on the garlic situation in thinking about planting for the first time ever I was under the impression should do it a few weeks before the first frost well. I you know I've heard that and my concern is that if they start to grow before for the season shuts everything down and they send up that little that little green shoot right then sometimes they'll they'll rot in the ground. So you really WanNa make sure that it is you've had at least a good hard cold frost and check the what of weather forecast to make sure that you're not looking at you know a couple of weeks of Indian summer in October because if they start to sprout a lot of times they will rot in the ground so you WanNa make sure that you haven't down two inches and you might even WanNa mulch them. You know so that they don't get to warm from the sunlight line so that's why I say you know mid October's probably better probably still have plenty of time to oh. Gosh yeah well. They got all winter all winter. You don't actually want them to start to grow you know they're they're. They're going to sit in the ground there and that ah this breaks their dormancy to have a cold winter. They need that in order to grow so you know you want them to you. Don't want them to break their dorm. See BEF- you know before the winter sets in you want them to remain doormat in the ground. Okay so while you're at it okay just just a grab a packet of seeds and plant spinach at the same time and if you plant the spinach at the same time and they again they'll stay dormant all winter long and then sprout in the spring so the first thing that you get in the spring. This is wonderful full wonderful batch spinach that it's just Sweden delicious issue could ever want all right so I can do that in the same same Liam area. Yes yeah yeah so Mike. What do you have your garlic already or have you already. I I have two bulbs but I honestly don't even know what they are so yes. I have a hard neck and a soft neck. What what's better up in this area for Welsh general wisdom is the hard next hour hardier and and that's that's been my preference but I'm looking at a variety trying this year of a soft nick that's that's grown over in the Lake region of New York in the finger lakes and so I got them from from there a hey what's up. I'm hoping I sorta like a soft neck so I can break a few braiding hard nexus is as a little awkward. Although people do it and there's there's there's ways to breed them in a sensor so you can hang them up and if you're interested in the decorative into and other than that you know of plant away you can't really fail and they usually come up and even if you get smuggled cloves they're great. They're delicious and it's a pretty reliable crop all right. That sounds great. Yeah Good Luck. Mike thank you very much for the call okay again. Two who four four one seven seven seven toll free eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and lines are open so we'd love to hear from you. Yes sir that'd be great. we need sponsors or are we looking at that. Well okay. I'll L. Keep gabbing until you figure it out just about ready but quite okay so this is also harvest time and I just cut down on all of my Collard Greens and I'm going to steam them and freeze them in in packages. what I figures not one serve but a one dinner package and I take him out of the freezer and I think I mentioned this poor before is I take that for the frozen Collard Greens and put him right out right in a basket on top of the rice cooker and so they cook at the same time the rice does and they thought it's great you know you can you can season in them. Afterwards or you can season them. this year. I'm just going to parboil them. You know a quick dip in the in the hot water and then right into the ice water and then into the plastic bag into into the freezer so those are those are great but my philosophy is always been harvest requires all all types of of storage storage up. You know options okay so you use the freezer. He USA canning use your dryer. You ferment some things in your colts star some things indefinite plant we have couple of callers yes haller number. One your first name and town that me yes truly braintree. Hey trudy brain dead just brain dead from braintree. Yes there you go the way I could get a picture of your raised bed and travel. Show me kind of person sure sure I'll have dylan posted on the on the facebook or you can I have a facebook page year round you endorse Allah gardening okay. Well if you want to do email or anything like that or yes I email okay. If you want to go off the air and give Jill will the email. I'll send you some pictures. I mean I do classes all the time on a square foot gardening and I hip some great pictures that I do and for the powerpoint so I can send you a couple of those no problem I listen to you. Describe it but like I said I'm show me kind of person well. I'll be glad to show you trudy. It's a it's a very easy to do. I it had Smith and his a totally different in yours well. It's totally different in that. I was looking at the trailer for yeah. It's it's I mean the same idea who want organic. the permanent bed. He called them wide rows. You know but there are permanent rose and I think that even Ed at this point is is more for not using the tiller anymore on towards the at the end of his shows there he was we talked about that a few times and and the raise beds means you do not have to use a tiller ever again at all and so I haven't used it Tillerson's nineteen eighty-one so oh I'd I am quite sure that it's a possibility so is that a possibility Joel. You take her email off air yeah I can do that. Okay all right okay and if you WANNA swap her for the next the next phone call and a dream come true Sweden nothing I did everything no Israeli unexplained did and to really nice lecture spices now and she's on the line but her eyes are not blue stop. It wasn't going to bother you today but you brought up so many things gotta call cost so first things first as far as garlic goes there. There is a garlic forum. There are many garlic farms all over the place one in Olmec Washington. Okay Hillary garlic firm say again filaret hillary like an h. r. e. celery garlic okay and their their address is eighty three at Lee road in Olmec Washington line eight for one. They have a phenomenal variety of garlic doc I've been very pleased with garlic. I've gotten from them and it's Washington but so we're in Vermont you know so I I would encourage people to check these guys out if they're getting desperate to find garlic not and now can you tell me was that it started with an F. for with an age with if an F. F. I L. L. LA define three. Oh there you go hilary hilary garlic farm right there good all right so people don't have garlic. Give them a call. Yes yes indeed looking at their catalog is from growing. The garlic is far more fun. Yes a little bit about keeping things and someone had mentioned turnips and I just thought oh I have to call as I've mentioned my mom's parents were both from the Middle East and in late summer. My grandmother would make leaf which that's turnips and it still lift. LAF T. but it's pronounced we've she would make gallons tickle turnips and my cousins and I saw Johnny Loria in the Pantry which was actually corroon those turn. It's down so these are like pickles. Is that what you're saying. They are so what she she did. It would be the turnips you know the ones with the red tops and she wash him she if they were too big she she cut him in quarters. She throw them in a big bowl of salt for three days. Madame sit there. Take him out of there into the jars they would go. Oh with vinegar a little bit of garlic beat and this is what eighty so much fun because they were this incredible pink colors and some water vinegar a little bit and there they would be and there we would much in absolutely lucious and even the turnip haters. Let them know you know sir. Turn it to a lot of people one. B Yeah One beat per gallon all right. They're not too much work. You know no steaming stove top's or anything like that so that's that I'll give you a frost. Trust them only. If you want it otherwise I will step out of the way I would never say no. I bohm sure yeah this one and is about apple and I learned this many many years ago and then was bestowed with the gift of meeting my a friend's father who sadly has died since I met him who had a big apple orchard over in New York State. He was a great great apple-grower. The palm is called goodbye and keep cold and it's a little longer than usual. Don't cut me off this thing goodbye on the edge of the Dirk Eric and the coal to an orchard so young in the Bar reminds me of all that can happen to harm and orchard away at the edge of the farm. All winter cut off by a hill from the house. I don't want it girdled by rabbit and mouse I don't want it dreamily bull for browsed by deer and I don't want it but it by grouse certain wouldn't be idle to call I summon grouse rabbit and deer to the wall and warned them away with a stick for a gun. I don't want it stirred by the heat of the Sun. We made it secure against being I hope by sitting it out on the northerly slow no orchards the worst for the wintry storm but one thing about it mustn't get warm how often already had to be told keep cold young orchard good bye and keep coal stretched isky above more than fifty below. I have to be gone for a season season or so. My business awhile is with other trees less carefully nurtured less fruitful than news in such as done to their would with an axe maples and brooches and Tamarack. I wish I could promise to lie in the night and think of an orchard boreal plate when slowly and nobody comes with a light. It's hurt sinks under the side but something has to be left to God by loved at that point thank you that's Great Frost. Oh Yeah for sure we're still up for digit appearing. You can get all right yeah all right. Well take care now. This is a great great poem absolutely yeah and I was just checking well. in even the Hillary is out of a lot of different garlic so you know if you haven't bought your garlic yet even have to you may have have to double check the the farmer's markets and there's still lots of garlic there although the farmers markets will be done fairly soon so you wanna get garlic and shallots too so where were we. Did you say you had another caller or no. No I think we're okay what we certainly would welcome sure so I was talking about storage options. there's reasons that you do different things with with different vegetables and there's reasons that you do multiple things with different vegetables. you know of course when you have green tomatoes for cold storage you can wrap them in newspaper. Put them in a box and then every week you go through and you check them the ones that have ripened up and they're they're red and and see you. WanNa make sure you catch him before they go bad because one rotten apple and one rotten tomato can can spoil the bunch so you want to check those every week and sometimes we put them in you know yeah we mostly put them in newspaper some years when we're drying pairs we saved those tissues pairs wrap up when we get them in a box. You can wrap up in that too that works really well so so that's what I call cold-storage also we use cold storage for of course potatoes right. That's the that's the most common way data to store your potatoes. are leaks now. Occasionally leaks seemed to be a little tender. You know maybe they are the small leaks. We didn't get a good harvest and those don't tend to cold storage as well as the big ones that are you know an inch around or so so we found one year without well what the heck would just go ahead and put them in the dryer and we discovered that the dried leaks are fantastic to cook with they were great in soups and they were just terrific way to store a huge amount of leaks. If for some reason the cold storage doesn't work out for you so there's like I said there's different options for all the different things that you that you store of course cucumbers going to be able to store those very long even if you haven't been in the fridge which we always like to have a few in the fridge but that's where you wanNA use a Crock we prefer the harsh crock which is which is a a German style called the harsh Crock and I I noticed even even at the Co ops both Burlington multi-layer had those for sale for awhile and the the thing is they. They have a lid that sort of bell shape shape you know and then around the the rim of the of the crock there's sort of a u-shaped channel so you feel that tape channel up with water you put the bell top on it and that seals it so that the the bubbling air bubbles out through the water and it you don't have to do like for you can use it for both Sauerkraut and pickles but so anyway the harsh crock is a is a great way to do the pickles and we we've enjoyed that quite a bit great way to store the the your hard hard earned harvest and you know when you start thinking about what you can harvest didn't save over the winter months. It's you know. It can be a challenge but it's also a real real blast. When you get to have those pickles from the crock and down the things of course you can ferment well. If you take like cabbage so you know if you pull the root right out or or cut a fairmont of the stem hanging upside down in your cold cellar they'll stay for quite a while there they actually they do very well in cold storage and but for the longer range when you start to get into January February march no you're gonNA have you're GonNa need something like a Sauerkraut so you can use at harsh crock. Make up your shower Kraut. you know now when and you harvest and then you know after the cabbages are gone and you start in on the Sauerkraut or you may want to dive into the Sauerkraut right from the beginning to awesome because it's such good food and not this year we didn't make it Kimchi but we have made a lots of Kimchi and that's sober sober warning so we use C. R. Carrots and garlic and our we use the some Greens some some scallions and and then we mix that up with of course the salt brine and all that kind of stuff the the Chinese cabbage knows the is the big part of it and this story very well. Kimchi is wonderful wonderful food. Yes yeah absolutely as I I had to be convinced and I was when we we actually bought some commercially prepared but prepared fresh. Yeah wow well we're lucky and I'm not sure you can get it everywhere but we have some really good sources of Kimchi you know and it's gotten to the point where even down at the market here and you know. Hannaford and all the rest of the markets but certainly at the call option that's where we can get some great. Kimchi she in and of course it's great probiotic and it's good for you and never mind that is really delicious. Yeah good for you and Delicious Josh Delicious Park but I you know twinkies or not not so good for you. No no no and it's funny you sort of change. Your taste buds a little bit. You go back and you had that hostess twinkies. Mike God that thing is so sweet we aren't he said so you know so so you wanna use you know each one of those options. You want a cold storage for some things. You want to permit some things or you want to do. Both you wanna dry some things some of the things that we dry course like I mentioned the leaks. You know if you apples. We just a bunch of apples. I was surprised Nikki did those my my son's fiancee slice them actually fairly thinner thinner than I usually do and she actually didn't even have to Corum. I this is what surprised the the head on me as you just sliced thin in those waxy the dividers for the seeds when they dried actually became brittle enough that there were they were ably deeming notice. They were there so she did that. an an incredible job at those those one of my favorites if you happen to have pairs or if you can get a hold appears there's nothing like like the dried pairs so you can you know you can save some like A. Senate box in cold storage but also try some of them because because they're they're fantastic dried and they'll they'll last you all the way into next season the good the dried ones cantaloupe and I've mentioned Shen that so many times it's ridiculous but the dryers great for things like that and absolutely delicious heaven tried the watermelon yet according to your advice is but I will it worked. We get a watermelon home and it's gone before I ever get a chance to get at it but of course so you know th the dryers which you use for your T.'s and your firms and all those other things that you wanNA keep over the the season and that's that's just a wonderful wonderful for way to go when you're I'm GonNa dry some basil. This year. Just haven't haven't done that before amazingly rewarding doing having your own drive. Babe May as well. Let me see we have a caller. I do believe they'll let us. Push that button displeasure button and say good afternoon your first name in town in your first name in town. Bird Basil is good. I have a lot of basil I just bring some in just further aromatherapy and that little bit but try. It's good to hear a seconding drying yeah. It's unbelievable along with Novus Hillary farm advice also is like that was as as I started garlic somewhere in the ninety s growing it Ron England is the man of Filaret farm and he has written a book called growing ingrate garlic. I don't know if it's updated but it has like talking to me. Sometimes more than you want to know uh-huh because there is that and I'm boosting. I'm grateful for this tomato finishing weather. We're having right now. I boost mine with some Samsung. He did warm rain water. Really warm. Soil is here tomatoes. I always feel a little sad for people putting Kohl's well water on their tomatoes or something along. I put my watering in on the bucket. Let a warm up before temperature is great and I'm as I say I have a whole lot of Juliet's that are and I've had already some tomato that for in the freezer and those speaking of storing and if you bring them in before it gets frosty and cold Egge cartons if you agree that I it keeps them separate so they don't want to spoil another good idea a man that went down the stairs by order of picking so I know what I need to pay attention to. I kind of so this is is great. I love it there you go. Have you ever stepped on an carton. The elderly like and dropped one. It doesn't hurt him. That man Julia too nice is sort of a Roma style. Well you say Roman Roman people would say the hour's market business a whole different deal. It's some much similar in shape but it's a juicy great grownup tomato tomato taking slab on your burger it like I say I freeze them and I don't do anything I just freeze them. I mean I cook them down and take the skins and seeds away way and they're they're sweet enough for tomato juice that way. There's there could enough for tomato jam on bread that way no kidding or whatever whatever you want. That's that's interesting so you would you would say that is a good juice tomato then I would I mean it's such a sweet deal and resistant and it's very productive and they keep a while you know I mean there's a whole lot of it's a vigorous plant and I definitely don't let them have their suckers after sir. Let them each plant root system has three stems and three steaks and and so much of my life is chaos and my tomatoes are a thing of beauty. That's great well. I think it was joy in Williston Williston. Who is She couldn't get the celebrity and she wanted to know if we know of new of a good juice tomato so I hope she's listening all like grow to an. It's a different tomato like I think they like more water. I tried growing one for someone in a five gallon or something they take so so much water and they're so vigorous. It seems to end. I don't have that much experience with other one but it's it's my face okay great later. thanks so much of one more week or what do we got. I know this is this is this is audio might be okay well. Thanks a lot well. Thank you appreciate all your calls and we'll look forward to seeing April okay. I'll be in Greece in the meantime farms over there the sixtieth anniversary of the first time I do I fi- way onto a Greek island for a winter so I went for weeks in November turning green eh birthday I haven't done much world traveling but we did sail around the Greek islands years ago and all those places deal and sickness is a is a little over touristed but I'll be there Erin. I have some acquaintances and things they're farmer to visit so anyhow enough about me. What's that one with the with with the with the Roswell Russi show racine for me one in a class and a Frenchwoman News Fair here and she said this is okay and you got to say no? It's not it's the better in Greece do as the Grecian's. Go a lot uh-huh push that button and then this button and you're on the air or your first name town Joel. This is rich from hey rich rich hi peter how are you. I'm good. Thanks and yourself. Good enjoyed your well another great season. Thank you so much well yeah well. We should many many more well thank you. I appreciate hearing about the indoor seller gardeners Yup Yup the fairly seat intensive heard people they get their seeds like a half pound or one pound at a time that would be right yeah. Is that readily available you know sources were well. Giannis Johnnie's. I've used for years and high mowing has a good source of peas there some flour tend to be sort of on the the decorative you've and you want the black oil seeds when you're when you order him but there's there's a lot of different sources most of them online fine. the the daily. Gardner got shut down I got hacked so I used to sell seeds but I'm I'm a a little reluctant to keep going on that I do have a a new website called talk to garden dot how to Dot Garden and and that that will probably not be selling seeds but they're available from you know East Coast to West because that I thought I was kind of maybe overkill for for me to be just packing up seeds and selling them but we'll. Let's see if if I get enough people emailing said they want to keep doing it. I don't know so but yeah rich both high mowing and Johnny sees which are are sort of local thieves but there's a there's a mum's in Canada and and then there's oh gosh all the names are escaping me the second. There's so many online that the one that I've always liked is is a farm Nebraska. What's the name of that and I can't think of it right the second. How many varieties of seeds do you plan just five five basics that that will get you all the green engineered and enough variety and that's the piece you know you just a snow peas is my favorite but any kind of P sunflower sees a black oil as I said I use a radishes dicon radishes are the most prolific but I also I love the Hong Viet Radish which is has a beautiful red red stem really nice and there's other radishes that you can you can get get from Janis AF quite a selection radishes but any radish seed will do if you've got some leftover from Your Garden I use buckwheat very cheap to by and and a common buckwheat. It's it's it takes a little bit longer than the seven to ten days. By ten days the the halls are starting the fall off and and so you got to be patient with that and then I use Broccoli or canola or anyone of the Asian Greens Leans all of those are you know make a nice not prolific but they're a very nutritious green so I go for those so we had the the four basics where they the Pisa sunflower the radish in the buckwheat and then it's the the the less productive unlike the Broccoli and Broccoli is is a super super food the Broccoli sprouts because they have a huge amount of antioxidant oxen and that's supposed to be really really good for you so that's why I grow that those will get you through like Dole and I were talking about Zouqi on a very nice screen in the French lentils are are nice. If you get a chance to go to the library and look for my book. It's in a lot of libraries. It was the number two best seller to libraries last couple of years ago so you know there's is a lot of libraries that have have got it if they don't you can ask them you know and I made a very convenient the two pages in the center of the book that are the the easy star guard and and the easy to pages there that you're they're easy start or no it. It is two pages airbase. You can just look katter topping. Put on your fridge and so it works really well. quickstart start guy when you open up your new computer. Go Quick Start Guide yes yup. I wish you a great winter enter again in April. I'll be here all winter. I'm not going to Greece for making it. All what happened on your end rich thank you. It's great yeah. Thank you for calling in appreciate it. I know well the program is in the garden and and we have Lee in Lowell but I think we know this guy here. Oh Li it'll is that the one hey feeder awesome show. I really really appreciate everything you've done for us this season then. Let me let me recap. How did this year. I grew some green beans and I initially we planted them about six or eight inches apart and I'm a lazy gardener so I did a couple of things that I I think we're wrong. I didn't pull any of them up so oh. I think I get some he'll but not I mean usually if you grow stuff especially this year everybody that grew stuff wound up with a with a whole lot yeah since I didn't wind up with a whole lot. I get the feeling that number one you can. You can put your plants too close together. Is that right well you you can you can bean sixty. Eight inches should be okay. You know they're they're. They don't mind leaves touching the you know the the standards right we know was either. They needed fertilizer more water or so. You know those kinds of things usually will did. They flower well. I don't I don't think so no I mean what he did. Get some beans out of it. I didn't see any like being flowers. I'm not sure I'd recognize them. Well Yeah you you know the before the being comes tmz usually a little white or blue or pink flower depending on the variety. I mean they're small so you might not seem that's for sure. I guess I'd have to describe myself as an inattentive Gardner as well then that's that's the other possibility is I've grown. I had one one bed head of of beans and the chipmunks help themselves to every single one they really so. I don't know if you had a good chipmunk. Thank you your bed chipmunk year but last night I did hear a deer slotting right outsider the bedroom window. I think he he was snorting. 'cause he was disappointed disappointed. I didn't have more Green Lee. Where's the beans. Actually my question is I. I I didn't put any stakes in to give them so they all grew up to a certain height and then Kinda stopped if I put it in like steaks and a grid yeah. They were up higher right under they do. They stop growing at a certain point when they realize they're gonNA flop over depends on which variety there's is just like tomatoes. Does you can get a variety or you can get a whole variety and if he had the pole beans and then then that's not gonNa work out well for you. They they WANNA be up in the air now. Even Bush variety will grow sometimes tall enough that they're that they actually you start to fall over and in that case you know sometimes a steak or two in a couple of lines will make a big difference on those because they you might get up to three feet and I've noticed that that my Bush beans that are right next to a trellis they actually start to climb up that trellis because they had the opportunity so you know it could be that they grew fast and they needed they needed the Trellis. You know that's a possibility because did they follow overall journal. now they kind of topped out and then stop growing up. I mean the beans. They came out. Were were off the ground enough to take to stay out of the soil. There you go yeah but it was It was a little bit more limited than some some didn't didn't turn out many beans at all so I you know you get you. You get out of it. What's the planning to it so I know the other lesson learned and more time working on it next year but I enjoy what I had and I see all the Ah okay well. You're very welcome and thanks for the call also okay buddy. Thanks you take care have a good winner by Golly. Well not only has the program gone fast but the season it seems wholly Christmas. He's thirty one thirty yes. She's a man and never to turn away a phone caller. Let's check in Peter With Evan in Montpellier. Hey Evan how you they do it. I I'm glad I caught Ya. I wanted to check in because I missed most of your show because I had a neighbor in need and MHM. I wanted to get an update sure. Did you ever get any Broccoli. I got ahead. Yes I did finally get ahead and then I noticed just today that I had some side side shoots on a couple of the other ones. How about you. What did you four plants but I did get well. I gotta be called a button. It's not like a big head but there's Zarifi coming off of it too so I don't know all right so you did get things better than nothing right I also wanted to get get an update. Did you get an extension on the show for this year. We don't know yet. I I sort of assume so well we if we know. Lee Tell listening. This is a a good time to put the plug a hand. How good thing I like okay that like it so much left to be done and you have much advice you can give that's right. That's right. We do have the Red Sox next Sunday regard next Saturday regardless at noon but then again the red sox are are. GonNa Period off action. Yes No playoff action. It is a sad thing. That's for sure yeah so maybe they'll bring in the following week. That would be yeah well I did. I did find you know and my peppers. I don't know who makes the Little Hall but I did find one. That had a slug inside. That's been my experience. I don't I don't know how they I think something else gets. The whole started you think is maybe maybe and it could be a burden to you know. Do you have a bird bath or around and source birds around but I don't know maybe I. I think it's those little fly things. I saw it anyway a puzzle but yeah. I'm sure there are other things again my little son goal tomatoes really didn't do anything. My Cherries are great and my jet stars and Cosmonaut Volkov Great Eight. That's great yeah my squashes that okay then a couple of plants died for some reason. I don't know probably the scoreboard but no I think it might've been. I had some weedkiller little too close to the garden. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah not good by just harvested a bunch of butternut squash one of them I'm mean I'm not. It's no exaggeration was over a foot long. It might have been fourteen sixteen inches long. Yeah it was a beauty and you know and then the rest of them were just nice size and we use them all they're great we just cut them up bake them and the he barely even need to have anything on them just just baked. They're wonderful. I don't do winter squashes but I have I do Patty Pans and yellow and what fun yeah. Those are great those great yeah well Evan Thanks for the feedback. I glad you got a few too to I. I I that one has puzzled me quite a bit Did you try eating the leaves. That's what that was my suggestion suggestion yeah yeah just like and I just picked a whole bunch of college and those are GonNa get frozen this afternoon and I saw those Broccoli leaves thinking you know those look pretty good couple of weeks ago you were talking about still planting seeds expansion lettuce and things like that and you still in that mode yes yeah twenty one days to for some of those lettuces and some of the spinach just the whole list of them that I just rattled off you know should all of them will give you a harvest and and you know like with the Kale. It's not going to give you a whole Kale plant. It's going to give you a bunch of Little Greens and when their baby like that just delicious Alexis sure no and Greens. There's the 'CAUSE I I've set up seeds. Maybe three or four weeks ago and for some reason either I hear wigs eating them or some the little furry creature. I guess I don't know and so I haven't really got anything backing me up now. I'm I'm down to the the bitter parts of of other lattices that are three feet high and ready to go to the garden. Nobody yeah well. I heard you talking about that at the beginning of your show so I didn't miss all your show yeah well. I think my wife's got all the window. Sills sold plants. There's no room for less like I said that that one shelf off twenty inches wide you just nudge over a little bit and said honey. I need to and you can use the northern window. You don't need southern window really yeah. The northern window will work just as well. one of my favorite spots is upstairs. In the back of our house on the northern side is one of the smallest windsors we ever saw about eighteen inches wide and it's enough for that twenty inch shelves and we don't use any lights beyond that and they green up fine they grow fine and Oh you know within seven ten days you've got a salad so I plant about five trays a day small small ones or two of the larger ones the ones that are bred pant size four inch by eight inch two of those a day if the kids are going to be around do three of those today so both you know then you have a fresh salad every single day and what do you do with all those trays. I mean some some of them are waiting around for two or three weeks. No like I said seven to ten days there four days in the dark so I on that shelf that I made. It's a the bottom three shelves are are in a cupboard so they're in that cupboard for four days so when they come out of the cupboard there about an inch tall and within three to three to six days they're they're good eight eight inches tall and as ready to cut. It's it is so incredibly easy to do and so productive. There's hardly any garden space that you will ever be more productive on and I I was like to make the make the point that if you were if you were to grow an Acre of trays I know it's sort of up to but if you were to grow an Acre trades you could grow within annually two million three hundred thousand pounds of Greens so it is a very very productive way to garden. It's not like this. You know toy garden or you know one of those ones where you have the fluorescent light or anything else just Serbian light. That's all you need yeah so my greenhouses my house full of grains well eleven. Thanks for the call and I have a quick question because I heard subtly catalyse. I mean most Bush beans that and that's what I grow through the poll means you know the spacing they talk about you know three or four inches exactly yeah so the six eight wasn't a problem at all at a bit of flex his muscle plenty of room yeah yeah for sure. I planted actually some a little too close this year but that was you know I was pushing it a little bit wider they choke each other out or they did they sort of started to fall lean on each other so but I still got lots of beans and boy were they good and I'm still hoping to get a got a whole batch of yellow beams took a little little longer because they're you know but the green ones came up and their harvested now the yellow ones would come in and I'm hoping to get in on a few more weeks I started mixing the seeds the green and the yellow legged purple ones. Ah this year for the purple beans for my granddaughter WHO LOVES TO WATCH THEM TURN Green wonder steamed. We have to do some yellow ones. I you get like this. Easter egg variety of the Green Yellow and purple I tell you I had all these different colored peppers this year but boy this. This is the first time in history for me that I planted things too far apart. I know peppers like company. They like to be elbow to elbow. I only had you know a certain number of pepper plants and I had the raised bed area so I put him a fairly distant apart a fair distance apart and they an a number of them just kind China with with heavy with peppers just kind of fell over and that's never happened before. I've always had them close enough together that if they're leaning to lean on each other yeah yeah no. I I every year I have to stake my peppers. The this just it's it's given now because soon as soon as they start to get a little they'll start to lean into title after a member of pepper stakes stakes different apper never Joel. I'm losing it a long growing season long growing season well thank seven for the call much appreciated. You're still at the fair Joel I will. We'll be back down again on Tuesday branch there now so yeah. We're having a lot of fun and Y'all be backed down there on Tuesday. See what's happening and and if I if you or anybody wants to get in touch with me. TD GARDEN AT AOL Dot Com and the that's published a lot of different places. You're welcome to the call for advice. I mean email for advice or whatever so. TD GOT UP TD Garden the daily Gardner and so the TD Garden at AOL AOL and I had a few people confuse me with TD Garden Down in Boston but it was there. I I bet it for a long time. Maybe they thought they were calling the bank. Yes they did good. Thanks for your advice. If I hope we'll hear you again in a couple of weeks we might have to to start a campaign gardening. Also they going to do that might be the odd football game through the through the winter and why not ought. I'm all for it. Normally they have a big Oh. They have the big schedule Boston Red Sox playoff games but that's not happening something something. I don't think that they were one game away and I think that they lost so I think it just means more you know. CBS sports or ESPN or whatever it is now CBS sports well no busy. Yeah uh good. Maybe we'll start broadcasting botchy games in Barry. You're always looking for something something to do here. uh-huh and there are plenty of those botchy. Oh lordy okay. Thank you yeah and thank you. You were everyone who's called in or just listens. I appreciate it and if you WanNa if you WANNA listen to them again there's the podcasts and and and there's email and you can still send questions via the the website you can send at the bottom of of the in the garden tab you can see spot there where you can send a message and you can still do that and I will reply to if you leave an email. I guess final final words final final words is is time to keep gardening. Just keep on going in the garden. we we just keep gardening right through the right through the season for sure. I'll hear you loud and clear thank you. Peter a by robot. GonNa make this garden all it takes is a ring and the whole ooh piece of fertile I robot someone bless the seeds so so warm them from low rain stays in the garden has been brought to you by minority dragway your family true value yard garden and pet place Brooklyn Street in Morrisville by grow compost. Oh Vermont want at grow compost Dot Com and located on route two and more town by the woolly store your true value store in Greensboro right there in your beautiful Caspian Lake by guys farmyard four locations to serve you Montpellier Morrisville Williston and Saint Albans by Colossians florist greenhouse and perennial farm main street in Colchester Clinton's dot com for Mega Monday coupons continuing with that. 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Kevin Stoddard, Stoddard Financial -019

Profiles in the American Dream

27:11 min | 2 years ago

Kevin Stoddard, Stoddard Financial -019

"Welcome to the profiles. And the American dream podcast Caygill for twenty years ago. I wrote a book with the same title as live. The book explored enormously successful businessman from my hometown, Massachusetts their trajectory. She had some common characteristics, including humble, beginning credible vision overwhelming struggles in deep well of perseverance and in the end success beyond the wildest dream each of my new guess, we'll all have stories that are Justice intriguing if not more. So join me as we engage with entrepreneurs from many different fields of work unlocking their secrets and inspired people across the country that the dreams too can be cheap. Please download and subscribe to this podcast. And let me know what you think by leaving a rating and review. Welcome to profiles in the American dream. He's Tim KO your host. And we here with another episode today. I am joined by Kevin started of started financial welcome to the show. Kevin. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Tell me about started financial. What is started financial, then we'll figure out how you got there. And we going and all the different parts of your business. Yeah. So started financial is a kind of a small boutique financial advisory firm. Okay. He's in Quincy, currently two people employed there myself and a fulltime adviser I had two fulltime support people in the past. But with changes in technology and service model been able to do more with a little bit less part of that is I get to learn how to do what assistance used to do. Okay. With the advent of technology like docu sign instead of printing. A lot of paper getting a lot of signatures and things that are missed and faxing uploading a lot of things are done electrically now. Makes the job a lot easier. How long have you been in your own business? Yes. Oh, my own business. Started in November of two thousand four. Okay. So almost fourteen years thirteen and a half years. First office location was technically in the city of Braintree. But with a Quincy address. Okay. So I was in to Adams place, which across from note. Well, yep. So started there, and I was there for six or seven years in the move my office right off from the first brook Parkway and sublet from a tax prep from there. So when you started your business, it was two thousand two thousand four thousand four what did you do before that how did you into being, you know, kind of get into this line of work in this business? So even as a child in high school, I took an interest in investing and at Forbes magazine subscription, really geeky like that. So. A little more in buffet of you. Yes. So my father had her stockbroker and Saint John's remind grew up in Vermont. Okay. And I sit data I'd like to buy one hundred shares Chrysler at the time Chrysler, bankruptcy. I was probably sixteen. Okay. So we go into Saint John's for you, meet with us wonderful stockbrokers name is Fran Collins and friends like, you know, what the government is behind it. You know, I wouldn't put much stock in that should invest in that just because the government's going to do the bail out on the cocaine. Well, that makes sense he's doing his due diligence. He's looking for me. I put my money into one stock and my four hundred dollars in life savings at that point could go to zero so that you should by the pioneer fund, which the Boston based mutual fund company. So put my money in pioneer. I watched quite sore. Go from like, two four eight in the rest is just a a long story of successfully. I cook turning the company around I often wonder, but never wanted to do the homework. What would that be worth today? Some things I don't wanna know real. You were an early value investor early looking for a way to make my money, grow and work for me. Right, right. And to make some money. So you know out of that are going to Bryan college in Rhode Island's goal degree in finance very first job is right here in Quincy. Okay. State Street Bank and trust good spot to start label down at the rate spot to start from there. I went into Boston worked for the Boston stock exchange for two years was working in the back office on black Friday black Friday or black Monday. I've psychot- teens eighty seven eighty seven exactly that was mayhem. But it could decline in one day. I remember it. Yeah. And really watching people freak out and everything was manual back. Then people were walking brokers trading on the phone, you know, with the new York Stock Exchange to Boston, Philadelphia, and Chicago and a lot of paper tickets came back in the the prices were scratched out four and five times while they're on the phone prices are moving so quickly. It was about was at like a five hundred point drop five hundred point drop, which in today's world would be different percents. Limpets? It's amazing, but the market was much smaller than right so much lower valuation. So, you know, really from there got into keystone investments mutual fund company yet done in a corporate finance and corporate treasury management. Didn't do real well in the corporate clear career ladder to tell you the truth, Tim, I was asked to leave their didn't manage up and across that. Well. It has a company was transitioning getting ready to sell there. Probably a handful of people that were close and finance. But didn't want them to have too much information as they went through an prepared for sale process out of that. I ended up at a small firm that does investment advisory in Boston. And that was gosh that had been nineteen ninety age. Okay. And did some corporate accounting did some investment management did some client service for the owner of the firm decided to become an adviser fulltime in October of nineteen ninety eight partnered up with another gentleman by the name of Kevin kind of created business within that business. Okay. Gaining clients through financial education, and we grew our business. We shared a support team. And unfortunately, he died of a heart attack right around March or April of two thousand four. Young guy young almost forty. Wow. Later that year in November, the owner of the company pretty much announced to the that he'd been committing massive financial fraud in how to puns I scheme that finally unraveled. Wow. So that was November of two thousand four. So that was a very lot of luck in that period. Yeah. Yeah. Real lucky guy thousand four and I must have been the year of something. I'm not sure what maybe the sneak. Yeah. Yeah. In two thousand and especially November. So out of that came a lot of turmoil and really didn't see it as being viable to get your hot up in the Ponzi scheme at all, you know, so all his clients. And you know, I think was able to convince people to take money out of legitimate accounts, put them into an illegitimate account, and one of the things that you don't technology does. Right. Well, she didn't create a statement. Yes. With technology. If something looks like a statement Ernie made off, right? So you know, when we in this trust business, so people place their trust in you. You know, sometimes it's very hard to tell who trust them not to trust. So that trust was abused. He didn't really involve to my knowledge any other advisers accounts because adviser that news what they're doing. When realize jeez. This account is worth should be right. What's happening? So out of that that that happened on say Thursday, I think on the following Tuesday had moved my client base to another. Brokerage firm came to Quincy set up shop in Quincy and was in the process of transferring my clients assets to new firm, however, there is a receiver appointed by the courts who is an attorney and he froze client assets. So what that meant was normal transition of maybe a week to transfer a brokerage account took several weeks. So those accounts had to go to the attorney. The attorney had a look at the list of people and say, this is or is not an impacted person all of my accounts free will to come over eventually. But yeah was. It stressful. Absolutely. You lose accounts because of the problem there is a couple of clients that didn't come. But again, most people it's gotta be normally something really agreed on the part of the adviser, right or along, you know, sometimes clients cleanse for very long time and the relationship might get stale. He meets somebody new that person's exciting. Right. You know, think about the American divorce rate. You know, who I right? Not that I'm going to say the two of the same. But there are some corollaries there. So sometimes I know wh- when it comes to when we see in the big stage when there is malfeasance are there is some kind of impropriety disa- headline risk along will will make everyone flee. They'll just take off. They won't wanna touch you and stuff, and it's a challenge because you didn't do anything wrong. You our clients were impacted by what he did. But everyone gets tainted by emotionally who is it was the only phone call ever got my house from a client. Was on the Sunday after the news broke and was in the Boston Globe. And he had retired up to New Hampshire. Kevin. I've just got to ask. You is my money. Okay. Did I come out of this? Okay. Bill. Absolutely. Did you're going to be hearing from me, we're gonna transfer your your money from you know, where it is to a new holding account and do custodian right? That will give you hopefully more confidence that your money is okay because new party has accepted that account. Right. So you know, there wasn't a grand vision. From the time. I was sixteen. I'm gonna have my own business. Once learned what a stockbroker did. I didn't really think I wanted to be a stockbroker, but I was always in the financial services field. Yeah. And you know, once I was was terminated at keystone kind of said, you know, what I'd like to be able to be charging Leone destitute. Sure. And Dustin inquiry control, and yes, somebody can be upset with the. But you know, if I have. Hundred clients or two hundred clients one by one somebody can decide that you know, what this is no longer for me. But I'm still going to have those ninety nine hundred ninety nine clients to keep my living. Right. Right. Well, that's a key part of any business. But specifically in the financial services, as you don't wanna be behold into one client, which a lot of people get you get one really big client. Oh, whether it's an institutional client are big retail client, and then your future depends on them them staying with you moving. So you wanted to versa. Fi just want him diversify into the investment business. And I think that is something that people. Don't know enough about because everyone's chasing the big win. Everyone wants the Chrysler stock as opposed to multiple stocks. So tell me about your philosophy. Investing is is that one of the mainstays is diversification. And how do you do it and sort of how do you look at people's needs as they get older in life as they start accumulating wealth. And how do you help them the great question? Helping people really were were I end up meeting people is when they need help the most. And unfortunately, you know. In our system. We don't educate people at the high school level. Correct. We don't really educate them in for some finance at the college level. Now little by little there's small movements that are taking place to provide more financial education in the way. I got my start was doing presentations to people that work for the phone company when the phone company was going through massive downsizing year after year they were getting these packages on benefits on how they could take a a severance package to they take a lump somebody take their a monthly nudie in the form of pension. What do I do in my foreign K? Can I Ford to retire? So I really was out there customizing presentations to this particular companies benefit plans, helping people in their stand what the company was offering them helping them to understand the trying to figure out the answer to the Kenai afford a retire question. That's really where I got much start. And it was really providing financial information they could walk away with what they really needed to know about the taxation of their benefits how it would work structuring out versus not stretching it out doing rollovers versus leaving money in the plan. So was a lot to that. And out of that, you know, people would self select do I want to follow up with this particular person. Do I like his style his personality or do I like his other his partner styling personality? Right. So as long as there's a connection made in that trust can be made, and we can provide, you know, real value added service. That's how how really grew the business. So it's really a a numbers business as you probably need to see a lot of prospects. And those people need to understand what it is. You're offering and have a value for that. But also have a need for that at the time that you're offering a service. So how do you differentiate in in a world where there are thousands and thousands? Thousands of advisors. There's almost too much information right in the world, especially on finances. And you don't know exactly where to go with it. So how do you do does a small independent advisor like yourself ninety small small staff and differentiate yourself from the big guys in and take the business or is it just the relationship and the trust? Or are there ways that you convince people that they will be better off long-term with you than with somebody else? I don't really find myself getting into that situation. Tim of for the most part people are not looking at multiple advisors and doing multiple interviews three to four people. Okay. You people don't have enough time to do that. And once they're motivated in an incented, my personal opinion is they're going to go the first person that they meet as lungs person doesn't do a poor job. Right. You know, a lot of people don't even have their wills done or. Healthcare proxies. Our powers of attorney. These documents really ought to be in place right and having motivated themselves, even though they knew it needs to get done. They motivated themselves to do it. The only reason people file a tax return is required by law that you reconcile what you made last year to what you paid the government. And for wasn't a deadline. They wouldn't show up and do it. It's it's absolutely correct. Nobody wants to two people you talked about one of them is death this taxes and retirement is maybe the third thing. And when it comes to all three of those death taxes retirement, nobody wants to really face up to the fact that they have to deal with all three of them taxes. They have to as you said because they required by larvae to do it. But death in retirement our emotional parts of of life that most people just don't wanna deal with they wanna put off. And then when they start to deal with it. Sometimes it's too late or too late to make the changes they need to make. So. I used to say twenty years ago, there are three things that people do really well that will have an impact on them, positively or negatively and their financial future one as a people a lot of people have been really good about saving money near foreign K. Right. But the other things that they've done really well as build equity in their home by home and make their mortgage payments yet and struggle to put their children through college correct today. I would add a fourth piece to that in. It's the cost of healthcare. Okay. So when we talk about, you know, business, and what are some of the challenges to business in two thousand four my rent was more than my health care premium by a fairly hefty amount. By about fifty percent fast Ford, fourteen years, my health care premium every month is two and a half times what I pay for my rent. So we're now in a society that over the past twenty years, maybe even longer. Her where a corporation has provided a healthcare retiree benefit. A monthly pension to a world where that became too expensive for corporations to continue to take on yet. They've shifted that burden to the individual investor really to the American worker they've gotten rid of the monthly pension plan. Maybe made that contribution to the foreign k plan in terms of profit sharing in lieu of making that monthly promise. So the worker today and the past fifteen years has a lot more responsibility for their future in terms of providing retirement income, then they did, you know? You know, twenty twenty five years ago in the healthcare costs is really become such a burden when you look at a monthly premium of maybe a single person with a spouse, which where everybody hopes to be when they retire, right. Wanna have dependence anymore? Right. But could be easily fifteen hundred twenty five hundred dollars a month. You know, and you have to factor that into your plan until you can get the sixty five in Medicare can kick in. And if I were to answer the question that you're about to ask me what on answer it now to him. And the question is what's one of the biggest obstacles that you didn't see Kevin? Whether you're clients didn't see as they went into retirement. And I would just definitely tell you. It's the rising cost of healthcare. Okay. And budgeting for that expense has been really problematic for most people. So that's something you get into as a financial adviser. There is that. Right. So that's definitely part of a budget. So people are doing a plan. The software really models right down to the county. So we've got all data feeds on the software program that looks what's the cost of health care, not just by state, but based upon the county that you live in what might this person be expected to pay. I think fidelity actually has a number out there that. It's north of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars is what you would have to have set aside to draw on over your life expectancy to help just to meet the healthcare expenses with Medicaid would win with Medicare Medicare. Yeah. That's crazy. It's crazy stuff. I I wanna shift a little bit here because you talked about how much technology is helped you, and and makes you more efficient and allows you to do more things the flip side of that is we all know is robo advisors are now populating the the environment that we're in that you're in the financial industry. Will you just you're not talking to a person anymore? You dealing with out. Official intelligence. Are you dealing with a company? We don't get a person. How what do you think about robo advisors, and whether or not that is is going to be the future, especially as millennials sort of attaching themselves and get into this next phase of their their life expectancy, or whether you think they'll always be a space for real live person to. I remember getting into this business in nineteen ninety eight and my wife at the time, she was working for a consultant firm, and there were a lot of technology people involved there still in ten years. You're not gonna have a job. Nobody's going to need either. What you have to offer yet. It's probably never going to be the case, you know, people still need human emotional connections to very emotional businesses. You file a tax return? A very simple return is a lot of people have one W two. They have new expenses, and they'll run down to you know, h NAR blocking pay whatever to get their taxes turned on. You can log on and very simply put in about a dozen or less numbers and have your tax return, Don as accurately as if he went into office, right? So taking that and managing your own money, yell the money management pieces. One component. What's great about the road of is is that they're driving technology spent and that technology is going to get pushed out. Out to advisers like myself, okay. And the firms that we work for are going to make another push in technology and software to make it more efficient at helping people manage their money their expectations all that. So I don't really see them as as a threat. I think that a lot of people that use that we're probably going to be do it yourself as anyway, and they just took one more step bend. The, you know, they're paying some extra fee to have an algorithm, but some human designed to manage their money and in reality, we haven't had a crash since two thousand seven two thousand eight right? A lot of these young folks have not seen the market go down since they become adults millennials. They really they've gone from the twenties now into the thirties. They've never seen. What you saw nineteen eighty-seven. We all know we're going to see another one. And the question comes up is is when the next one happens. And the one after the act to people start to realize, hey, I do need a real person here. And this is an is easy as it looks to be because the market does not always go up the way it has for the past decade. Right. You know, it's not the visors jobs say the markets out an all time peak we need to get out. It's advisors job to help people understand how much risk they can say how much will they would stand. When the twenty percent, you know market correction comes or if it's fifty percent, or whatever that is. Are you elevator in a way that you can say, you know, what my account on from one hundred thousand to sixty thousand and I'm gonna point in life. When that doesn't matter because time takes care of most else, right and historically time in the market has really taking care of people in my wife had an account that was very small and to me that would be thirty or forty thousand in. This was a very long time ago. When Ronald Reagan was president, we converted some of our money to Roth IRAs. So we always have tax reduction shoes from as a way to manage tax risk down the road, you pay the taxes buffet the taxes up front, right, right? Still make pretax contributions. So we're gonna have plenty of tax deferred. We've got a bucket of tax free. We'll have a bucket of money were you know, as interest and dividends or pay. We'll pay the the the tax current year. I haven't changed her account since nineteen ninety eight. And she would say to me, I'm not making any money. I'm not making any money. When's the last time you open the statement? I don't know. But the last time I looked at it. It didn't look like it was much more. You know? And it's a multiple of what I'm sure it is so not paying attention to it is sometimes the best strategy. I I've heard that that that is not sometimes, but almost always the best tragic, especially for smaller, you know, investors. And I think he overall the firms that do really well, the investors do really well of the ones that aren't focused on the day to day the week to week the gyrations of the market because like you said what goes down. We'll come up. What goes up will come down? But it's proven over a long period of time that investing especially in the equities market will will grow farther than anything, but father NFL fasten inflation or anything else the bonds, and but patience is virtue that a lot of people don't have when it comes to. Investing in the future in the biggest thing is one to switch that mix from being, you know, more equity to less Lekota in it really comes down to. I think in my opinion as to when you're gonna start taking withdrawals. You know that you're able to not have to sell to meet monthly distributions when your portfolio's down forty percent, so factoring that in that's really part of the adviser's role. And. That's what I'm sorta. Enjoy doing you still love doing the job. Glad that you're on your own love it. It's turn my business has gone from being sales focused in gathering a client accounts to be more service oriented to servicing the clients. I have in terms of business and the shift is now I've gotta get back into kind of growth mood to help develop another advisers book clients and see and grow the firm, and and and at the end of succession plan set up found good sounds good. So when somebody young comes to see you someday in the next sixteen year old kid and he wants to invest in. Let's say tesla when it goes bankrupt or just when it goes down. You're gonna tell them to go for it. Right. Not not not go with the safe bet, but go with the value investing. And I will explain the trade the pros and cons, and what the outcome might be. That I appreciate this conversation. Kevin started financial burden. Very well. We're happy to have in Quincy. And I think it's good advice for people trying to plan for the future. If you retirement. For the children when they're gone to have someone who is stable and someone that allows people to really gathered information to make decisions in a proactive way. Great advice for a lot of people. So I thank you. And I thank you for listening to this edition of profiles. The American dream. I'm Tim Cato. This is Kevin started. Guided financial thank you for coming in. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to profiles, the American dream. I'm Tim Caygill. Please download and subscribe to this plot cast, and let me know what you think by leaving rating and review till next time. Thank you very much for listening.

Kevin kind Quincy Boston attorney Tim Chrysler Ford Braintree Saint John Tim KO Forbes magazine Massachusetts pioneer fund cocaine New Hampshire Adams place Ponzi scheme
#1730 How does a founder balance new projects without distracting from the company

Mixergy

51:57 min | 1 year ago

#1730 How does a founder balance new projects without distracting from the company

"Hey there freedom fighters. Maybe Sandra Warner. I'm the founder of mixer g where I interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses. Joining me as a repeat desk and the calmer repeat entrepreneur is under stating at this. Dude might have a problem. He had a bunch of companies that I knew about and then he put out the spreadsheet of all the companies that he's had before leading up to this company. And as I've been preparing to do this interview with him. I watched them create another. What are you doing is one of my first questions for Josh pig furred, first of all should introduce him? As the founder of bear metrics official description is a man I just read it there. It is metrics forecasting engagement tools for teams here. Here's what I like about him a soon as you start selling anything online, especially on subscription, you wanna know like how who's buying in? What's the repeat business in the whole cohort analysis stuff that everyone tells you to do, but as a pain in the neck, and what barometric decided to say look just connect your payment processor for me at stripe, and we'll do the rest. We'll tell you. How long people stay with you. We'll tell you what a customer's worth we'll tell you when somebody had signs up. We'll tell you when somebody leaves. And then they decided to finally take my advice from my last interview with Josh and say, look, we're not just gonna tell you. We're gonna help you keep them longer. I don't have a lot of advice for entrepreneurs. I basically good listener. But that's one thing I felt very strong about with bare metrics, I invite him here to talk about how he built his business. Find out about the past companies that he's had why constantly keeps launching business is really distracting or is it adding to his company, and we do the whole thing. Thanks to phenomenal sponsors. The I will help you hire developers. It's called top tau in the second will help you do Email marketing, right? It's called active campaign. I'll tell you about those later, Josh pretty drinking. You're drinking a whole lot, man. I'm I am well hydrated of coffee and water actually have to empty cans of LaCroix over here too. I just drink my last one, and I'm very sad. Feel free to go pee in the middle of the interview. Your revenues public's. I'm not like extracting any secret information. Anyone can see demo Dopp barometric dot com. If they went there today. What would they see as far as revenue a hundred something thousand I haven't checked amongst the month? Yes, recurring revenue. That's correct. Congratulations. You passed a million dollars in recurring revenues you guys. Celebrate when you did that we did. But it was one of the things like it was that last. Amount. Like, I felt like we've just teetered right on it for like a month or something. It was just Madden where every day is like we're like a dollar short. And then it would go down a little bit more than one hundred dollars for whatever, but we celebrated, but then, you know, making stuff are you allowed to make a profit considering that you got a little bit outside funding. Sure. Yeah. Are the are the funding that we have is really super basic angel investing stuff like very few strip almost no strings attached. So are you profitable? Yes. You are. I don't know. Congratulations. How much it's like we purposely operated like break, even so like any any privately got we just throw it right back into the business at this into products. Like that introduction. We're gonna talk about you know, before I get into this doing. Well, why are you selling coasters on Twitter men? Right. So. My. Earlier you mentioned that, you know, I think problematic or something like that. Or might have a problem, which is feels very accurate some days. It's like what on earth am I doing like doing the thousand different things? But part of it is that I have since I was a kid. I've. Felt this strong urge to constantly try new things. So I love learning school, but I love learning. And so for me, I like my brain has to constantly be trying to figure out new things. That's the only way I can kind of stay sane. And so with bare metrics, I've I'm in this sort of CEO role. And there's less sort of room for me to try weird things. Pop into my head. So doing these other kind of random things like buying a laser cutter, and like making stuff is like the way that my brain gets to think about other things where I don't get stuck in this like echo chamber of startup stuff. Like, I need to do stuff like that. But my you you think about me my head is very focused on one thing. We gotta get it. Right. If I have any bit of attention has to do something else that supports back to this. What am I missing? What are you getting out of by the way, these these coasters beautiful? I love my favorite one is the one that Ryan Hoover took his first announcing product hunt turned it into a coaster that now he's got around. It looks beautiful. I get it. But as someone who doesn't wanna get distracted someone who doesn't have shiny, whatever syndrome. What am I missing what's benefit that you've gotten from trying different projects specific if you can sure. So we'll so high level it's my sanity. Now. More specific. It's. There's a few things few benefits. So I I think it's what I was earlier about getting out of echo chamber, where I'm not like, my brain cycles aren't constantly spitting on the next article published on the blog or the next product or whatever. And like, you get caught up in the count example. I is like programmers when they're looking at its programming problem. It's like they'll stick and stay all day in the like, go grab lunch or something. And they're come back, fifteen minutes later and the the solution to it's completely obvious. Like, of course, that's the solution. But they found. Founded stepped away, and and that's the that's me stepping away from the business problems. It's like I think about something that has nothing to do with like business analytics, and I can come back with some fresh thought on things. Was that? But it also it also makes me empathetic to business owners because these other things that are making. I'm also selling a lot of that stuff. And so this is like this new aspect new angle that I'm able to view business through or new lens that I can see through that. Otherwise, I would not have thought about doing something like that. One of my concerns is that I'm gonna get sucked into a lot of projects are lot within that project building a web site, creating the product making sure that ship it out my own personal obsession with what if not enough people like we're doing this session live here today, and I'm constantly watching how many participants do we have a my doing well or not because some participants left someone just left right now as I said left man what happens there might not doing good job. You feel any of that distraction with time as you creating coasters distraction with the tension. No. So, you know, the all the little things that create a website. I mean, you also mentioned that spreadsheet of stuff like this spreadsheet is a prime example of how I figured out how to make. Certain things very quickly. So I can spin up new website or whatever and like an afternoon. So the. That sort of like, logistical stuff doesn't take me much time. And then pass that again, it's like a lot of times this kind of go and cycle. So like, you spend a good chunk of a week on one of these projects that's not related to metrics and don't touch it for like a month. So it kind of comes and goes, and and I control the volume of time that I'm spending on it. You know? So I none of these things require my attention to choose. When to spend my time on it, really. Sorry had it on you twenty fourteen you guys raise a little bit of money. You're at twenty percent growth rate. How was that? Good was bad. I think the growth rate at the time early early onset some maybe some false expectations. So. I, you know. Sort of from from the perspective of like building a company that is focused on growing. I was new to to some that had had some real sort of monetary success. So. I kind of went into thinking that twenty percent month over month growth was normal. And it's not at all points. Stopped distorts plateauing. You're not gonna keep twenty percent month of month growth like forever. Most stating where near that. So that was the bad thing. There was kind of like maybe like whenever we would hit like ten percent month-on-month growth. It was like, okay, Ben something's wrong. And now timber that's fantastic. There's a skewed view on things and twenty fourteen is when we did an interview at the time, you are at two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in revenue, and again, it was all public. And so were you starting to spend money expecting a twenty percent growth rate expecting that to continue. Right. So yes, the thing we've ever really sort of spent money on is people. Okay. So we rarely have not spent any. Real tangible amount on things like advertising or marketing. It's always been on hiring. And that's also the hardest. Yeah. Knob to adjust. So. Yeah. So we hired based on the like, of course, we'll we're hiring head of revenue, but we'll catch up to that pretty quickly. And that's like also the eternal optimist that most entrepreneurs are, of course will. Yeah. It'll be great will be six months. We'll catch good. And just didn't and it didn't. And now you had a team of five people. Yes. Somewhere around there. Yeah. And what do you do? Then how how do you deal with it? When you don't have enough money to pay. Yes. So I we raise the five hundred initial five hundred thousand seat around then by the end of two thousand fifteen with I sorta realizing okay, we are going to run out of money here. So I sort of trying to raise some more money. I was able to get an extra three hundred thousand. And had I been smart. I would have just said, okay. Here's our three hundred thousand let's buffet down and get profitable then. But instead I kept hiring. Wow. But somehow, I it's the classic like we just need role X to to be filled in that will help us grow. Got it not true. I mean, at least it wasn't for us. So I do research in real time as we talk. I'm trying to see who your investors are in. It's not coming up on crunch base. Who are they? Yeah. So general catalyst and Bessemer. Oh, God it, but those are angel investors. They're not at all significant PC's. Yeah. They don't care about the investment in me. I mean, they're right. It's such small amount of money. Right. So not catalyst has seven hundred and Bessemer has one hundred and those came about especially the general catalyst side from stripe stripe. Created this thing called the stripe platform fund or something like that. Mix back into dozen fourteen. In general catalyst is like the vehicle that sort of put all that money. But yeah, I talked to Cortlandt Allen the founder of indie hackers. He. He sold to stripe in said, well, I love bear metrics. I kind of feel Oakland's there. Hey, I love for you to jump in here after this conversation just kinda talk about your side a little bit. And I'd love to have Portland as interviewee. Instead, I said to him was stripes going to like incorporate all this bear metric stuff, he said. No. And I saw his eyes. Andrew was thinking to small stripes. Ambitions were way, bigger nevertheless stripe is building a lot of your software into a lot of what you guys do the metrics of being built in. They went from being the crappiest metrics out there now being useful kind of what happens there. Yeah. So that's interesting and not a whole lot of fun for us. I think the the the where we see it as like. I guess if anything makes the the positive is that like we're sort of forced to innovate not that we wouldn't have anyways. But like now stripe has this like high level set of metrics. Like, it's still not great. We would still say it's not even accurate. And a lot of it though is like now stripe has the data that stripe has. But because the day that stripe has plus we bring in a bunch of extra and let you bring in extra data's. Well, what do you guys have that? They don't have you. So stop around like a company demographic stuff. So you can say like, let me see him are of companies have more than twenty five employees or his more than a million dollars funding, or like, I I wouldn't need that as a user, right? What I wanna know is how many for your customer base. So God who my customer base is stripe isn't doing that that's out of their focus, but I could with their metrics. So it's not only how much getting paid day-to-day which stripe was not very good at to also then moved onto or you also included how long somebody with me. Now, you're giving me data about who that someone is in who the Rupa people are guarded. And then you add more to it. Okay. All right. So we're gonna get into like how you compete with them when they're competing with you. And. What kind of innovation you bring in? But go back to twenty fifteen you raise more money. He said I'm going to put more more people on task. So that we can grow even further. And then you hired an outsource f. Oh, how did you find an outsource CFO? So I have a private slack group with other founders, and I've just asked there, but hey what somebody else using? And this particular guy was suggested to me, and I've heard good things. You're slack group are so you got with his outsource CFO. I got someone like that. I got him from top cow. What are you doing with the outsource CFO? That's helping you. Right. So when I when so through through mid two thousand fifteen for almost two years, I had this sort of pretty rudimentary root memory. Spreadsheet just sort of like trying to project future revenue stuff based on the expenses. I was inputting all those things and. And what the problem is like, I'm not. Finance kind of guy. Like, I'm not interested in the spreadsheet stuff. I mean, I built their metrics because I hit looking at spreadsheets though. Nothing kind of got away from me and ultimate became very inaccurate. I was starting to feel the cracks in it would decide to reach out and to the outsource, and that's sort of like he's orphans to toss stuff mainly that. We're about to run on money. He looked at it said you guys are about to run out of money win in his. So we had initial consultation. And he's like, okay. I'll let swing back in a few weeks and kind of, you know, generate his little internal spreadsheet of stuff. Very cool. But then like later, I think within twenty four hours he sent me a note as hey, we need to get on the phone now. And so we hopped he's he's you've got you've got about six to eight weeks of cash left, and then drew zero you have no nothing left. So that's a problem, especially when you like all of the those expenses are really tied up in people. You know? So and so what do you do? So at that point. I had to have a tough conversation with the team. I think that he and I had a channel like Thursday, and we have whole teams remote. But we have a weekly stand up video chat on Mondays. So I spent the the next four days or whatever that would be over the weekend just trying to think through crunch every number possible and things like what are scenarios here that could make this work. And so, you know, looked obvious like cutting having to lay off people I mean, like doing pay cuts like what expenses can we cut rent all sorts of scenarios, and ultimately figured out that we could if the whole team took a fifteen percent pay-cut, and I took a thirty percent pay cut. And then we cut really dug in and cut down on sort of extraneous expenses like software that we use and whatnot that we could make it work. So we did that. If you think back, I'm kind of a chicken when it comes to letting people go kind of meaning very much. Do you feel like maybe you should let somebody go? The this was an opportunity that if you're the type of person who could make those types of decisions, you would have let people go not just cut back much, you're paying people. So I mean, maybe, but the thing is that stage. It's not like we had multiples of any role. Really like, it's not like we've got like six designers. We can let go of you. You know, it's like pretty much every person had pretty crucial role in making function. So. If ever if people had said, no, I'm not gonna take the fifteen percent pay cut then. Yeah, we would have had to let some people go. There's another option. But I mean, the team was pretty amazing about it and agreed to take and where they still working as hard as as passionately as they were before. Yeah. I mean, so the in the middle of this like so Monday was when I told the team about this, and like we had been planning we've been working on a six month project, so to basic spanned outside of stripe as a Pam processor. And that Wednesday we were launching it. Like, we were all hands on deck anyways to make all this work and. And so it was everybody just kind of like dug in and did their work. A find out how that went in a moment. But first Jack was listening to us live has a question, by the way, anyone who's listening to live. I'd love to hear your questions or just say, hi and the chat, I wanna make sure the chats working for you guys. Jack was asking personally how many months of emergency money? Did you have yet? So I've been self employed for the better part at this point fifteen years metrics like ten. So like months of personal emergency fund stuff. Maybe a few months at the same time. Like, I've always me and my wife like are used to ups and downs of being self employed. To the point where it's like, we were pretty flexible life can deal with this. I know she's dealt with this for a long time. Sure. It's that she doesn't really know any different like our relationship started in college. When I was like doing all of these random projects like I've never I the one like real job that I ever had was a couple of weeks after we got married. I went and got a job for interactive design firm and seven weeks later. I quit like, but she doesn't she's never had a situation which she said look, Josh, you're working hard. I need us to save some money. We've got kids. I need you to make sure that you've never had that. No, not really, I think it's just because again, we started off our entire relationship on this like this is sort of on the the idea that my sort of employment is a typical. So for her for that. Like, why does she why she okay with this? I saw the cake that you made for years ago that even had John dot com on it like. Celebrate of how you have to keep creating these companies. What do you think is in for her? I I mean, so she even like works. We've worked together for a number of years. Like, I think she's. She in the same way that I make a lot of like web technology kind of stuff. She's also got like this sort of maker bone in her body like gee, enjoys creating things to and. I I think like, I don't know. I just I we don't we haven't known different. It's the only like our whole relationship exists around like from a. Money standpoint has always been sort of up and down and been impressive. I talk about my first, and I'm going to come back and find out what happened when you guys launch at new feature. My first bouncers top talent, usually talk about how topped house a great place to developers and guys. If you're listening to me, it's the best place to find Bella pers-. And frankly, the best at that. But I had a similar situation to Josh. I wasn't sure if we were like maximizing profit, I wasn't sure why some months we just weren't making any frigging money. Even though it was working like a dog. And so I went to top talent. I said you guys have a part time CFO, and they always get on a phone with you. And one of the first things they asked me was tell me what you're looking for from part time CFO, and I'm glad that they did. Because it turns out I didn't really need a part time CFO had bookkeeper had enough like internal CFO type components. What I was looking for was as they named it. Profitiblity adviser somebody to say, hey, dude, once a month get on a call with me and say, do here's what you're you're not thinking about profits. Here's where you're screwing up by spending money where you're not supposed to. Here's what you're not maximizing. Here's what you not talking to such it who sells ads here and pushing him a little bit more. Because this is what's expected. And here's what you're all that stuff. What you're what you're what you're sponsors are doing with other people instead of doing all this research into like you went to like, John Lee Dumas. Here's our John Lee Dumas doing his thing. Why don't you thinking more like that? Like all that stuff. I wanted to think outside of my box and started pushing me, and it was incredibly helpful immediately. He more than paid for himself. And then we've been on monthly calls where we're thinking way bigger now thinking more about long-term where had a budget last year, we have a budget this year where I know where I'm screwing up where I know where I'm jumping on opportunities. I want things that we did was of the site where I promote chat bots 'cause I invest in a couple of Chapa companies believe chap our future for business communication with customers and Jackson while you got no monthly thing on that. This is a problem, and we talked through and Megan who helped put this thing together. She's been advocated for a long time to and using Megan's creative ability in our team in our audiences needs. And Jack thinking about finances we were able to put this up in. So time flat because it was so important to us. So if you're out there, you're not thinking about your profits. And you don't have somebody from the outside to look at them and give you a different perspective. Do Josh did get outside CFO doing high did get an outside. I call him profitability visor and the way to do. It is to top towel top cow dot com slash mixture. Yes. To have a lot of developers also will help you find a good finance version MBA's is one of their big categories. And if you go there, you can get a bunch of credits in a no risk crop period. And all that stuff that you can read if you go to top isn't topic ahead tells and talent that's t o p t AL dot com slash M. I XY RG y top towel dot com slash extra cheat. Josh's Mickey too hard for people to spell. A little. I don't know the Urji part is the right confusing. I should just called it. Mix energy there. All right. What happened? What happened when you guys launched? What was a new feature in Lynn what happened when you launched it? Yep. So what we were doing again like the first year and a half almost two years. We were exclusive to stripe. So it's, you know, revenue LX strive, but we needed to expand outside of stripe to to have other things. So we expanded to Braintree recurrently. We're working on pay Powell and all this other stuff. And so that was the feature was expanding outside of stripe. That's why he went outside describe. And when you did did that help that what had that impact revenue? Yeah. Yeah. As with most things it didn't have. Didn't have as big of an impact as we had hoped. It did help them, and certainly, but you know, if you look at our revenue growth, that's just it's annoyingly consistent. I notice that driving big jumps. If you go. Anyone can go to demo dot barometric dot com right now and see a revenue and the aren't these big jumps. No, it drives me insane. But what it is? I mean, actually be thankful. It's at least it's not like down a bunch or anything. But and so why do you think that didn't jump up? Why do you think that you now went from just being striped to now having all these problems I expected it to maybe not be as big a jump from each one? Because Stipe has he's passionate people who are on it stripe is kind of easier to integrate. You know, what why do you think that didn't work? I think it's one of the things that you have to kind of have to be searching for it. Like, we can't just all the sudden have every brain. Customer know that we support their platform. Okay. And I think a lot of it's just like shrimps got somebody sort of early adopter types, especially a couple years ago that they're always sort of looking for new things. Whereas I people in Braintree Braintree ten years prior didn't go to product you're saying, oh, they've just been on Braintree forever. They just they're not like looking for Braintree analytics or Bri know. You know, so we slowly get, you know, certainly, add new customers every month to those platforms, but it's a different type of customer. So just Michael Cooney was listening to us live is saying, hey, it's not just it's not just buffers data that you can get if you want buffers revenue just go to buffer bear metrics dot com. If you convert kids revenue go to convert kit, barometric dot com, and you'll see how much has that helped you guys grow companies like convert kit promoting their revenue, right? It's I think it's it's one of our majors or referrals for new customers. Because it's just a it's a thing. That's reference a lot like bumpers constantly cheering that dashboard. Yes. Honestly sharing. Right. So like. It's very consistent since we started doing this little partnerships. But it's not huge. It's almost like branding my right? Yeah. Totally me. Like people will sit like go look at convert kits. Bear metrics dashboard. You know, like this sort of thing that people reverence a lot. And for me. It's a. That happens, but it's not a huge funnel. I'm wondering where you get the majority of your customers. Content is probably the biggest thing for us. Which is a slow thing. Like, you know, we can't we don't have anything that. We just pump in, you know, one hundred bucks a thousand bucks back, right? Like, it's all just this everything piles up and adds up, and this is sort of cumulative effect over time. What's up their metrics dot com slash blog? That's where the majority of people come in. Importance of standard generated content. That's one of blog posts how dollar fight. How dollar flight club achieved. Seventy six point five percent trial to paid conversion rate had us customer feedback to fool your business growth. That's what we talked about last time. That's it. You're just writing for writers like you for entrepreneurs like you, right? What then allowed you to to prove your sales. It was you reduce your expenses, you just cut growing a little bit at a time. How are you able to finally pay for your people? Took about six to eight months later. We had really again like you mentioned from the graph that there was no big inflection. Where all of a sudden, we're making massive amounts of money that we were not before it was just like incremental would kept the same growth, and we were already like we were we were we were burning money, but like not we were able to basically become profitable by just cutting salaries. And so. Didn't have that far to go to get profitable with everybody. Getting everybody back up to their full salary as well. So within eight months later, we were eight months on. Yeah. And everybody's back up to full salaries, and we're people act like the they were doing favor, which they were was there this awkward situation. No. So like, I was that the day that I had that conversation with the team. I was everybody was certain within their right to be angry. And you know, like let me have it for having dropped the ball on managing all that. But nobody did I had a few people like sort of take the rest of the day off just to kind of figure out if this for them. Yeah. But past that like, it was it was like after that it was back to business as usual and with me doing a weekly biweekly updates on where we were with finances. Like I kept everybody in the loop. I already tried to keep people in the loop for the most part. But now at that point, I became very intentional about like, here's exactly where we are. And here's how close we are to you getting back to full salary. So that got their wonder what court Lynnwood asked I love court. Lund's interviews. I feel like some people give him a hard time online by comparing him to me. But I I find that he finds that nugget this really important for his audience. He so laser connected with developer entrepreneur people are bring him up in a little bit. Once we're done here. Saying much more confrontational. There's nothing to confront Josh about. The fact is that he's just good with everything. But you're right. I have more confrontational. I feel like I do a little bit of friends over because if people feel like I'm a nice guy, we we're friends, but Andrew can you just edit that one thing out, but if I do, then tears a heart out of all this. So you're on the one thing that I said, she was getting data for bear metrics gives me it gives me Zion to see how much money on like churning month after month Saab that and you at the time said, no, we don't wanna do that. And I felt like maybe you were pulling a Steve Jobs. Who when Steve Jobs was asked. Can you finally do video on the ipod that no nobody would wanna see video on small screen? Meanwhile, he was thinking about in working on it where you at the time. In fact, thinking about doing that helping people recover some of that loss churn. Yes, we're building it at the time. Yeah. I so we we've had a couple of rations on that. So the very first thing we ever did was just called dunning, which is like the industry term for sending emails to collect revenue and we release that it was like included. I think it's probably sometime in late maybe sometime in two thousand fifteen this is for people who their credit card doesn't work. Here's a feature that I didn't know stripe. Doesn't talk about this. But if you contact stripe and say, if somebody's switches their credit card, can you just auto switch their payment with me to the new credit card stripe will do that for pennies. I didn't know that. Automatically they do. But there's more to it. There's some people whose cars will continue to fail because they've switched different card processor fron credit card, for example rate. And that's what you decided you wanted to do. I was glad about that. Because that's an awkward thing for a seller to do someone comes in. They buy from you Newsday. Hey, you should update your credit card? You've had an issue here. You've gotta pay me. What you had you know, that that was going to be an issue. What was your process understanding for subscription revenue? It's always an issue. Right. Like, if you're an ecommerce store credit card in the works or doesn't, and they either by the thing, they don't where with subscription revenue you're sort of like there's a certain level of trust that they put them they put in their their credit card information. You hope that you can Bill it and a lot of times you can't not not for nefarious reasons. But I mean, the the, you know, they're they've lost their card or the person at the company left the company, and so their card is a work anymore and all that kind of stuff, and it doesn't make. Sense. You can't scale you manually reaching out to somebody. And you also won't do it as officially if you do it manually. So but was just from your phone calls. I remember when I signed up to bear metrics for the first time. There was hey, Andrew, let's get on a call a help you with your with your profitability was that. While you got it by talking to customers like that. It was probably more from a needing it. That's what a lot of yourself because your subscription payment. Right. And we for us a lot of our customers are paying many hundreds if not thousands of dollars a month, and like that's adds up really quick for how much money could be lost to failing carts too. So yeah, we built that. And then we built like a second integration where it's not just emails. It's also inap- stuff. So. You know, this this inap- thing that will block access to your app if the cards fail after a certain amount of time or let building all that letting them update their card right inside your product all that kind of stuff. And what are you charging for that? Well, so Israel. Initially that very first version, it was just part of our two hundred fifty dollars a month plus plan, and then when we released the second version, we made it an ad on that goes anywhere from like twenty five bucks a month up soon, you know, a couple thousand depending on how much are you got got. It says not much you recover tell much you earn. Right. So and the reason to not do it based on the amount that we recover for you is that like it's a little I find that area to be very gray. We have competitor. That does it that way. And yes, I've had way too many people of feel like they were getting like something didn't add up, which can those cases it works out better for the company to like fudge numbers, a little bit to recover more to claim responsibility for recovering some really because they make more money, whereas what whatever recover sort of Iran. And it's just based on the size of your business. So we're going to be want to recover as much as possible right because you make more money. But we're not going to charge. You a percentage of that? Kelly. I see I'm about to talk about active campaign. Can I u-? Yes. She says. Yes. Okay. Seconds launch was a company called active campaign anew Kelly, since she uses them Kelly feel free actually you can only meet yourself. I can't meet you. I was talking about active campaign as a great Email marketing platform because it does all kinds of things that will help you park people better Kelly. What's an example of one feature that since you're active campaign user, wasn't example of one feature that we should be aware of. I actually haven't open right now because I'm working on the client's project in it automations by far the most helpful thing. Do you mean? So you can tag people sue active campaign is a tag based program in you can tag people, according to different things that they do. And then send them through automations to go down different paths of choose your adventure type thing. What's an example that you do what's an example of how you use that with one of your clients? So what I'm working on right now, actually is I created a membership platform for this client, and we are when someone hurts says from them, they get a tag saying that they get access to the course. And then they get different tags for different modules. They get access to and then it sends out an Email. That includes their logging information, and they can go in log into the course purchase a new can go even further with it and say, look, if somebody hasn't watched one of the modules, you if they watch a module, you tag them, if they don't have that tag that you can send an Email saying, hey, you didn't watch this module. You should click your go take a look in do follow up sequences. Great example. That's something you could do on active campaign. Kelly Garrett whatso- website where people can find out about you. Etc. Dot com. E K C E T E R A dot com. Cool. Thanks for anyone else. Wants to go. Check them out. Go check out active campaign. They have this special URL where they're going to let you try their software for free. If you decide to sign up, they'll give your second month free. If you want help one on one decide that you can't afford Kelly Garrett, and you just want some help from the company self they'll give you two free consultations with experts, and they'll even migrate you. If you're with a different Email provider. All you have to do is go to active campaign dot com slash mixture. You'll get all that good stuff and love that. They've got actual professionals that they've trained that they help get up to speed with this. So you can hire Kelly to help build this out even further active campaign dot com slash mix to get all that good stuff. Josh I feel like I wonder if you're really good with Email automation in any of that stuff. You just keep it simple. Now, try to not think about it. We we've had very complex sort of Email marketing stuff in the past to that got really out of hand. And now we hired a head of growth back in December. Who's now like we've we've like stripped it down to the basics, and or sort of like slowly building back up on that. I chatted with him. What's his name? Cory, cory. Let's see of court. Now, he spoke Cory Cory Hanes. Cory, cory. I'm going to bring you up later on. I'm just gonna give you the talking power. I'd love to come on after. And just give me some insight into what it's like to work with Josh. When nothing is nothing like this is working. What do you do to like to channel your energy within the company? At my core. I'm a product guy. So which can sometimes is like to to a fault in that in my head building. Something fixes things. When in reality autumn does not what the business needs. So like hiring we mentioned Cory here. Hiring Corey to do our gross stuff was a major necessity because that's my brain just doesn't work. There's a think in those terms. And so I think that's too the businesses detriment because that's not how I approach you. Don't think about marketing to degree that. He does. Correct. And so not that. I don't value it. It's just I I don't I don't get enjoyment out of digging into the to the sort of technical like, you know, the testing of all these different ideas and stuff like doesn't make want to show up for work everyday. So. So that was like me needing to off somebody else. So you do like spending time is creating stuff. Let's talk about this thing that you created for investors in the problem that you had with it. I feel like you you analyze investors. Right. And when I talked to Nathan Laka, and he said, I'm gonna create all this data, and I'm going to sell to investors in making money because I'm selling to investors something didn't ring true for me. I think you're experience feels more like what I expected. Let's talk about where the idea came from first. And then what you built and then talk about what happened. So Cintra sorta metrics years ago, there's always been like me sort of playing middleman between people the companies, and then people who are interested in this company soon with investors or buyers, or they want access to companies and company would say, hey, do, you know, anybody that's interested in investing company like us or do, you know, if somebody I could sell my company too? So that's always been. A thing that's existed for us. So we just have to like what if we created this sort of marketplace too. To have this like centralized location for that stuff to happen. Then potentially monetize it, and that was the sort of impetus for what we launch called intros. So we start working on that middle last year. And you said in your blog posts that you kind of faked your launched you went to you went to product on which is where a lot of the people. I'm interviewing today seem to have gotten their first customers. And then on product hunt you announced it, and then what did you have at the time when you launch it on product on we have the ability for companies to opt in so which was essentially little toggle switch within their metrics account, and that could add a little bit extra info. And that was it. So there was nothing for anybody to really see as far as dashboards are lists of companies or anything like that. But we need more companies to come on board. And then we also to start getting some investors interested in the idea. So that they could start chatting with him though, the launch. And then how did you get investors to to raise their hands and say they were interested in the product on thing started a lot of that. And then our own Email list happens to have a lot of investors on it. And so they were a mouth really see reached out to them. And when you had conversations with investors what happened so. Initially. It's all good. So, you know, show doing demos video screen sharing? Our mockups of things. Showing? Here's what you would have access to their interactive mockups, click through them and see what it feels like that. And and the feedback there was like universally positive everybody. Yes. It would be great. I would love to use something like this. You know, there's a few extra things that would be great to have. But then I would mention the price point. So we're planning on five hundred bucks a month. And and it was. Yeah. That's fine. That'd be great. You know? And nobody really nobody flinched at that. Great. When you started charging what happened didn't start charging because nobody would pay for it. Nobody flinch. They would just say, it's great. But they wouldn't pay for it. Right. So really? Yeah. Single person. Not a dollar was. Oh, yeah. So that's not fun. But let's analyze why. Why I think the biggest thing I think is. Okay. So there's this disconnect between the feedback of this is great. Yes. We would love this like this would help us make more investments better investments. And then when you ask them to pay they won't so like, whoa. Why? So I think one you've got the V sort of standard operating model is for them to take a look at something you think people like from the perspective somebody pitching an investor the Besser wants to make everything sound great. They want the person another into feel like they're end the thing in the investor doesn't they have no reason to you know, they'll have to follow up with how my skin the game yet. So they can say everything's great. They can add all the feedback in the world. But and they're used to doing that. But you know, when it came down to it them parting ways with money as actually really difficult, and they don't actually have that much money to spend. So why not because the money that they've got. So said they make a ten million dollar investment that wasn't ten million dollars at they had sitting in a Bank account that they could spend on a tool is only there's only management fees that they could use on tools. Right. They don't even take back the money from their winnings. And use that to invest in stuff. Right. There's like from a business model perspective. There aren't that many VC's that are making boatloads of money from a being as far as freely expendable money. You know, like a some like a junior associate or something they might have say a five hundred dollar max on their credit card that they can use. And that includes like take people out to dinner and all that stuff. So like the end of the day. They don't have that much money to spend on this custom. I found that too. When I started doing makes her G as events. I remember people would tell me Andrew you should get investor's to sponsor the events because they get access to all these people and a good friend of mine have happened to work for VC firm as their PR person. She said these guys don't spend money on anything. That's just not how it works that even spend money on me really what they do is. They kind of partner up with me in the companies they invested into pay for me. So that they're all sharing my realize what these guys really don't. And you don't see a lot of investors buying stuff online and nothing like that. Right. Yup. What would you do differently because I know you're gonna launch more products? What's what's the new approach? I don't know that we will change our choice in a I think we've used this. Sort of this approach of the pass where it's let's let's design a mockup of it. And then get in front of customers or even current customers. If it's like an add on or something like that. And that generally works really well for us in this particular case, it was here's this entirely new market that we have not worked with before. And you know, at the end of the day like there was. You're building a product there's some inherent risk where something may sound good. In theory, a credit card comes into the picture. It's it's kind of a gamble, and it will be until you have a point where you can charge for it. And I mean, I think one thing I was really proud of is that we we stripped it down a lot to get to the very first version to launch with where where we could accept a credit card because we didn't want to keep building stuff like us. Adding a couple extra features was not going to tip somebody over from not being able to pay to from what I saw what you did. Really? Well, was you kept it simple in the launch. Like, you said people can just flip. Switch and say share my data anonymously with investors, and let me decide if I want to talk to them. And then what you create for investors was here is agriculture company, or I don't know what beat of be project management software company. That's earning this much money. If you wanted intro hit this button, and then they accepted yet. Right. So that's all you built. That's not that intense. No nos. We from coding perspective. We did not spend a whole lot of time on it. So I was happy with the amount of time. We put anytime you're like creating something new in some sort of new category. There's just there's going to be some risk, and like some gonna work some of it's not, and that's part of as part of it. Okay. So when we close out with this question that I'm gonna bring up Corey once we're done with the interview I'm on a site call site where I've got a list of all the projects that you created over the years. Anyone can see it? At Josh pig dot com slash projects. I see here St. seven lines of different products, including the new would laser edge thing that you just launch. I want to know what did you learn from all those that allowed you to create bear metrics that allowed you to be a better entrepreneur one who can generate profits more because of this experience. I think all the stuff leading up to metrics metrics would not have happened had the the the prior whatever fifty or something items not existed. So every one of those sort of this steppingstone to the next thing. And some of them are like directly. You can follow the line directly from one thing to another to bear metrics. So the I think from what I learned. It was just all of the things that. Come with building products like trial and error. It's you know, ten plus years of trying things and then having that as knowledge when the one thing that always stood out for me with you pop survey, you wished when you created your your survey site, which looked beautiful you wished from what I remember that you talk to people I talked to more customers more users as fast as possible, right? You're nodding. And that's why at bear metrics got on a call with people so fast. I'm looking to see what's another one. That was especially painful that would afford you to learn something else conferencing, metrics men. Yeah. So I think like sometimes I'll like sifted that list about what could have done different that would have made that thing work. And like one of those. I think like so this one. Called tech university. That's on their k which is like we were producing lots of how to videos and. And to me, that's like one of those things that could have if I had had the foresight. You think like online education has blown up right? We were sort of talent and the people to make something like that. I mean like Khan Academy or even our code academy or like there's hundreds of them at this point. But back in like late two thousand eight nine into two thousand ten there were a lot fewer of those and is one of the things I felt like we have the knowledge, and we certainly I built the platform to be able to do that. Really? Well, and. One of those are a lot of times. I have I don't have enough foresight into a certain. Industry or something like that. Like if I had just like stuck with it. Who knows? But I don't think I'll pull out about that stuff. But see that it was part of Gigamon network. How is that? So I had sort of the apple blog as just as like blog about apple stuff. And then it got acquired by gum and part of that was like I spun off a bit there to say, hey, let me build this thing got it. So is owned I giggle. But it was your own thing to run on on the side. I was the I was it was a sort of silent business. Okay. For anyone wants to go. Check out your website. I highly recommend it don't go to bear metrics dot com. But instead go to demo dot bear demo dot bear metrics dot com because I find that to interacting with the product really lets you understand. Why so useful Tony before bear metrics for years? VC's would come on here. Entrepreneurs would come on your energy and say you need to know where you're like hell your lifetime value customer. Is you need to do cO her now when I Email them or ask them like how do I do it on vite them to do a course on about how to do it? The process was so frigging convoluted that nobody was going to do it involved. A bunch of spreadsheets. I remember even giving somebody access in my audience who said I could do it in a spreadsheet for you. Give access to all my data tried to put it in a spreadsheet any just made no sense with the result. And there was no way to just go through an adjusted see it. And so if you look at bear metrics that one screen shot, I can't help it scroll through it. You're gonna xactly understand how this works. This make sense if you out there, and you're listening go check out at demo dot barometric dot com. I wanna thank my sponsors. May this happened, by the way. Josh stick around with doing this live here today. So I'm going to bring on Corey who you work with after close after this interview. But if you forgot my two sponsors hard hiring developers checkout top cow dot com slash mix. If you're doing Email, marketing automation, right Kelly did and go sign up for active, campaign checkout active, campaign dot com slash mixed ready. And Finally, I want always close this out by saying I'm running marathons all over the world this year and injured interviewing entrepreneurs all over the planet as I do follow along at run with Andrew dot com. Cool. Thanks bye. Ruin except for.

Josh CFO Kelly Garrett Andrew founder Jack Corey Sandra Warner Cory Cory Hanes Twitter Braintree LaCroix CEO Steve Jobs Portland apple John dot Khan Academy self employed
Episode 473 | Managing Annual Subscriptions, Low-price vs. High, Being a Non-Developer Founder, and More Listener Questions with Laura Roeder

Startups For the Rest of Us

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Episode 473 | Managing Annual Subscriptions, Low-price vs. High, Being a Non-Developer Founder, and More Listener Questions with Laura Roeder

"Welcome to this week's episode of startups for the rest of us. I'm your host rob walling. This is a show where we talk about building ambitious yet saint startups. And this week. I had a great time answering listener questions with Laura Road from meet Edgar. We talked through questions about managing annual subscriptions going low priced versus high being a non developer founder and we talked through more listener questions. This has started for the rest of US episode. Four hundred seventy three up to the rest of us. The podcast helps developers designers and entrepreneurs the ultimate building launching growing startups. The with you built your fifth startup. Or you're thinking about your I. I'M ROB and today with Laura Rotor. WE'RE GONNA share experiences to help you. Avoid the mistakes made welcome back to the show. This is the show where we focus on indie funded and self funded startups folks. Who Want to do interesting things and are ambitious and want to build themselves a better life but also want to build companies beneath that that grow and starting a company as hard and having this community of people who are going through the same thing that you are and having that sense of belonging and knowing that it's possible be that there's a place where we can all hang out and just get each other and where you don't go in and explain what you do and everyone looks at you funny? There's a tremendous amount of value to that and that was a big reason why we started this podcast. Almost ten years ago back in twenty ten startups for the rest of us has many episode formats. Bats sometimes I just have conversations with folks do interviews now and again we do founder hot seats but one of my favorite episode formats is listener questions and we've answered a a tremendous number of listener questions over the years we've had a lot of episodes on this and it's just the gift that keeps on giving because it's time for listeners to participate and to hear what other folks are going through and to hear the thought process of a couple of founders. Typically who who've been there and done some things and it's not that we've been through everything that they ask about but you can at least hear that thought process of how we approach it and over the years we've always received positive feedback about this episode format format but before we dive in. I WanNa let you know that at Microsof- we are making an announcement next week. It is by far the biggest announcement that we have made since we launched the event nine years ago. It is coincidental that the twentieth Microsoft is going to be on April twentieth of Twenty Twenty so the twentieth during in the twenty s or whatever. But but that's not the announcement obviously already mentioned that Microsoft Growth and starter are in Minneapolis in late. April of twenty twenty. But if you're not on the micro conflict that encourage could you to Microsoft dot com enter your email and we'll loop UN as soon as we have we have the info it really is pretty spectacular. And you probably know me well enough by now to know that that. I'm not trying to inflate the importance of it today. I answered questions with founder. Laura Road if you don't remember Laura. I interviewed her in episode. Four fifty one. She runs meet Edgar which is a social media management SAS APP and in four fifty. One we talked about stellar growth platform arm risk layoffs and powering through roadblocks. It was a really really good interview and Laura knows her stuff. I have a ton of respect for her and honestly I always love getting on the mic and just chatted with her Super Fun. I had fun. Inner interviewing four fifty one and I had a great time talking to her today and hearing her insights and her take on some of your questions nations so without further ado. Let's dive in law rotor. Thank you so much for coming back on the show I love startups for the rest of us. I cannot stay away awesome. I'm so stoked to have you on to answer some questions. You've actually submitted questions in the past. So it's cool to have you on on the other side of the of the earbud so to speak so so we have some good questions today as always voicemails go to the top of the stack. I curated some questions that I think you should have some unique insight on and will let's it's just roll right into the first voice mail which is about being a nontechnical founder and how to make good technical decisions Hi this is Matt from the U. K.. I've got a question. I'm looking for advice for nontechnical founder. How can they avoid Gingko by poor oh decisions from the technical team or just not knowing about the consequences of the equations to get made to create this offer any advice to be great? Thanks so this is an interesting in question. Laura as a nontechnical yourself. I'm curious what your initial take is so I would. I like to take umbrage with the phrase is with a phrase nontechnical founder. Obviously I know what he's referring to. Non Technical founder means that you are not a developer and I'm not as developer but I always think it's funny because I'm like I run a software company. It doesn't seem quite right to To call me nontechnical but you know this is a very real L. problem for all of us who are running software companies and are not developers. Because obviously you are not intimately familiar millier with a really core part of of what your company does so I mean I guess the first thing it just sort of blanket advice for this is is that you really need to have a person in that. CTO role who you trust one hundred percent and I mean I think this goes for any leadership role in your business. But it's especially important in this case because you're not going to be able to provide provide so much oversight you know anyone can look at a customer service email and say okay. That was not how we want to answer. But you really can't read code. If if you're not a coder so I mean I think that's just sort of stopped. One is make sure that the person in that job leadership role. You're you're willing to play one hundred percent faith in them. Yeah that's that's what I was gonNA say as well is even if you are in a place where you can have a cto the fact that he used the phrase. How do I don't get called out a you know it's like does your team not trust you or do you feel like you have to make decisions that are out of your league because I would almost? That's an interesting turn of phrase. It implies that like the team calls him out for making technical decisions. But it's like are you making decisions. You shouldn't be since you're not a developer. So I would I would dig into that but I think having that senior whether it's a CTO. You're the senior divers somebody that's that really is making decisions in the best interest of the company and it gives a huge deal. Yeah and I think it also brings stop that. You shouldn't try to pretend to be anything you're not right this. If people are calling you out does it mean that you're burson me like you know things that you don't know or maybe making decisions that would be better for other people in the company to make an. I think it's just important to to be unafraid. To ask really stupid really basic questions until you understand some of these core concepts mm steps related to writing code right. I mean you you can decide sort of how much you feel. You need to know for me. I feel like I've been through this process recently. Big Time with our finance team. Understanding all the financials of the business I just ask our finance person over and over and over again. Sometimes I'll literally read a book. I read a finance book recently and I just wrote down questions for her and the margins and then I'm like I want you to read this book to. We're going to have a call together or I'm GonNa ask you all of my questions about about the book and I think that's a great thing to do for technical questions as well. You know you need to be open with your team about what you know. And don't know and I think it's important for you to work with the type of person that is very patient and very understanding in explaining things to you you. You know within reason you don't need to understand every detail. There are a lot of concepts that are probably familiar to you that you do need to understand at least sort of the basics of how the sausage edge you get some aid I guess I like your example because as a founder. You don't need to know every single thing about bookkeeping and accounting and finance. But you should probably know enough enough to be able to ask the right questions and I feel the same way running a software company that. I don't think you should be able to code everything in a SAAS APP. But maybe it's worth worth going through a code code camps or maybe it's worth on the side taking you to classes. I mean it's easier than ever to learn just really basic level of coding and knowledge. Such that yes you'll never be able to architectural decisions. You won't make the senior level things but you can at least relate to. Oh this is what code is this is how it works. This is what it's like to write a bug and spent four hours not realizing that it's the semi colon that's what development you know what it is and so having that cursory knowledge and being able to then ask ask the right questions is is what you're touching on. That's that's what I like about it. Yes so WH- nontechnical. You don't like the nontechnical founder if you're a developer and you're reading the code then you're like a developer founder. Is it a non developer founder. Is there a term that you prefer the nontechnical. Then I guess maybe you just say founder right and then when you're explaining later sort of your your side of the business because you also don't call like you just said developer founder. But I've never heard anyone actually say that right. They would just like it just making up a new job to try not to say technical and non because typically it's technical and non technical I think are the two terms people use and I was just trying to think of a different way to say that because you're right running a saas APP. Yes you may not code but you are more technical than most than most people we now just because by nature of being. So it's it is a misnomer but if someone someone wanted to differentiate between like Derek and I when we started drip like he was literally in the code every day and I was literally not in the code every day. And I don't know I don't know how else you differentiate that or what phrase we could come up with. It wouldn't feel Seattle feel like nontechnical founder is a pejorative. I don't feel like it's negative. Does it have a stigma. Do you feel like it. Does I actually think it does have a little bit of a stigma. Because I've heard people I heard people obviously developers use it. Use It in that way before where we're kind of not as cool of founder thought. Is that sucks. I don't use it that way but if it if it gets that connotation than yeah we need to to figure out another another phrase for it so cool well thanks. Thanks for the question. I hope that was helpful. We're GONNA bounce into our second question which is also voicemail. It's about a founder. WHO's is launching a second SAS APP? They're nearing launch and he's concerned about potential lawsuits. Hello this is Thomas from Australia. I listen to the show for a long time and wanted to tell you. It's really great content. I love following along. you're you're journeys and also hear stories of other people in Kinda similar situations to my question. I have founded a Saas Company. Three two years ago rights invoicing solution for small independent car repair shops. It's doing pretty okay. I can live with and it slowly growing. So I'm I'm happy that about half a year ago. I founded another company with a Patna Andrea Building. Software to compare prices for car are pots nodded. We want to go to market with this substrata suppliers that tier of US trying to fight US pretty hot so I think I think we have to go to court like several times. There is not really a legal problem with fetching the prices because we do it locally on the customer computer computer and Dan not going through our systems but still they can make our lives miserable if they pull us to court all the time now. I'm I'm not really sure how to go along. My partner really wants to push through that and he's shoot at it will work out. I'm also pretty sure that it will work out in the end. But I'm I'm not sure if I'm the right kind of person to spend the next one to three years fighting big companies so so I wanted to hear your thoughts on that and maybe what you would do in this situation. Thank you so Thomas also wrote in and he said he wanted to clarify that. He hasn't spent any money on the new project. The price comparison project and they have a small private investor but in essence he has only invested his time so far so I should preface this with. We're not legal experts. We don't give legal advice. Obviously but it's more of. Hey if I were in your shoes how would I think through this so this is an interesting situation and I'm not sure it's one I've heard before what. What do you think about those Laura so the way I think of it is just there are pros and cons with every business every every business model and it's really smart to go into a business with your eyes wide open about those pros and cons so from what I understood stood from his message? This is a likely threat. Not a certain threat you know. He suspects that there is going to be lawsuits. He has good reason to. I believe that's going to happen or it could not happen at all so it makes me think Gov with my business meet Edgar. We are entirely entirely dependent on the social networks. And you can listen to my interview on this podcast on startups with the rest of us. I talked about a big problem. We had because of that. But all businesses have upsides downsides. You know for me. I know that I'm in a space where I'm totally dependent on these partners that I have no relationship with an annette can do whatever they want. That's a downside to my business. The big upside is I'm building on facebook. Twitter and instagram obviously very popular tools lots of users so I think that he just needs to know this going in at. Maybe it's something that you budget for. It's good not to be scared of it right. It's good to go in and say okay you know. I know that this will likely happen. Maybe we have money set aside for it. Maybe we've already figured out. Who are lawyer is so they can jump right in? And we won't be surprised and spending a few months just trying to find good counsel so it to me. It doesn't sound like a deal breaker because it might might not even happen at all but yeah like you said you have to know that that is a battle that you could be fighting and you just you have to know that. That's something that you want to sign up for like the way you're thinking about it. I think these unknowns like if you've never received a cease and desist or you've never you you know received frankly been sued. It's super scary. You don't you don't know what that entails. I got sued by a patent troll about probably five eight years ago but it was literally a blanket it was about control with someone who sued one hundred people at once for like having online invoicing software is what it was. It was just this crazy. It's like what he sued. Everybody that does online invoicing because it was a ridiculous patent and I gotta be honest. I was super scared the day I got the email and then I quickly realized I talked to a lawyer and someone. Who's just like this? Just isn't that big a deal and we have these stigmas against things and lawsuits can be a big deal and they can be expensive. But your point of it's it's almost like tried to demystify or de risk or just get more familiar with what this might look like typically if you were to launch something like this. You're not going to get five lawsuits the next day. Right from five suppliers your prob. It's probably going to be weeks months. And then you're GONNA they're gonNA grumble and they're going to call you or send you an email and then you might get a cease and desist and it's like think it would be a long process and maybe like you said you set aside money to either have a lawyer whether it's to go to court or whether it's to to try to negotiate settlements it's or whether there's a lot of options here I think this comes back to expertise. It's like as a non lawyer. You should have the probably ask the right. Know How to ask the right questions uh-huh but you're not the expert in how this should all go down. There's folks who can give you advice if you find a if you find a good counsel and I think the biggest question for me is is. Is this a big idea like is this is a seven figure idea or an eight figure idea. That's worth going through all of this for it or is it something. That's going to generate five K.. A month in which case personally doesn't sound like it would really be worth it. I mean maybe I would launch it and if if if it's a couple thousand dollars a month or five K.. A month and and you start getting cease and desist. Well maybe that's the point where you're like okay. I guess I'm GonNa pull the plug on this. You know. Maybe that's the best decision because it just doesn't make enough money or maybe that is your defense of it doesn't make enough money and it's not worth anything so I think that's really an early question I'd be asking not not. Is it worth it but is the is the idea big enough. Do you think the company it can be big enough to make it worth fighting for. Yeah and I think it's also worth a quick Google so I think he said he's an Austria. He didn't say if the business business would also be dealing with Austrian suppliers. You know America is very litigious. Most of Europe is is not and you can't just file random lawsuits about anything the way you can in America. So if that's where my business I would be. You can figure out a pretty good amount just from educating yourself on the Internet would the suppliers have any sort of case because if they wouldn't that's also just make the whole thing much more unlikely. Yep so thanks for the question Thomas. I hope that was helpful. And depending on what happens I'd love to hear an update on how you move. Forward or next question is about how about pricing whether to try to go for more customers with lower pricing or vice versa. It's from winslow more and he says I'm a huge fan of your podcast and all. Are you guys do you guys at the end of last year when I was going through a bit of what I'm doing in my life and learned so much of one of the reach out for a while but haven't because my current products under development isn't SAS. It's it's just an APP a recipe book up to be precise. I'm assuming it's a mobile APP. Development is nearing completion. And I'm wanting to make a landing page to gauge some interest before I do I'd like to figure out some pricing scheme options and I'm hoping you can give some advice here. My main ideas number one make the APP free with ads. And he lists pros and cons number to make Jeff Freeman with paying to unlock X.. Recipe storage. The third is making cheap like a dollar and the fourth is making a subscription like a dollar a month or five dollars a quarter again. I know this isn't something normally answer questions. On feel adventurous it would be appreciated. What do you think? Oh man I feel like I have some news that he's not going to that he's not going to like to hear so I'm trying to I'm trying to You know let let him down gently. This is one one of the most crowded spaces you could possibly enter riot. There's so much recipe content on the Internet in so much of it is excellent in so much of it is free that none of the models that you outlined gave a compelling reason for someone to pay right. I mean you you decide. I'd like recipe APP. Maybe they'll pay a dollar. Maybe they'll pay a subscription. So I think you kind of need to rethink your starting assumptions. Or maybe there's something you didn't tell palace right because there are reasons that people could pay for a some sort of like recipe or cooking service like I know a Saas business nest that does meal plans for people like you put in all of your detail dietary requirements and they spit out really specific meal plans and shopping lists and there's the whole APP and a subscription around it. They have business doing that because they're meeting. A specific need in the market that is related to recipes so there our businesses related to recipes and food but just like recipe APP. I don't think he's really one of them. I like the way you're thinking about it. Because if he were to each each way down and like you said build custom meal plans. That's something you can't get free right or it's or it's really hard to do at a good quality or Vegan meal plans or Paleo meal. Oh plan like there are ways to think about it. I'm guessing everything I've just named has already done to done to death. But even if he has let's say he he builds it's not just content and he builds an APP that actually has has functionality. That people are interested in these one dot like a dollar a month. You need a thousand customers to make an eye. Doesn't apple take thirty percent. I think thanks. So you really making seventy cents on that. He's you need thousand customers to make seven hundred dollars a month. That is a tough business. Even with APP store distribution. You would really need you too no. Seo I mean you need to rank in the top whatever top five four whatever term. You has an volume to do it. This would be a pure search play in my opinion because at at a dollar month even if your lifetime value is ten twenty thirty forty dollars. You can't run ADS. You can't hire sales. None of the a standard models work. It's purely as spray and pray and it's I need to have a free traffic so either need like union vitality or new organic discovery through a search engine so really really none of these pricing models are easy. Well I'M GONNA go ahead and say they're they're not viable right. I think it's kind of polite to say that they're not easy but they're really only a viable if if you have some way of getting not mass which is possible. Maybe you're like I'm GONNA raise a ton of funding and I'm going to be the number one recipe destination on the Internet. Like someone has to be. That's not an impossible thing but it's gonNA take a ton of money to get there or you're like I am the number one. Seo Ninja on the APP store no one can do APP store seo better than me. And I also probably have a bunch of money. There's some money to put behind it. So that's how I'm going to get there so yeah I just think you need to really look at. How does the mass work out to make this a viable business assists and what's my strategy beyond just like why hope a lot of people find my recipe APP in the APP store and even if you're building as a Saas App let's say just in general enroll? What's the general rule? It's the lower your price point. In general the higher your turn the harder it is to grow. This is not in every case. But it's I would say ninety five percent of cases and that's why so many Sass apps the playbook is you go out you're under price yourself because you just don't know any better or you don't value what you build and over time everybody goes up market. It's it's a very common playbook and the reason is because those customers as you go. Upmarket tend to churn less. They tend to be more more sophisticated less support. There's just a bunch of pluses with it but you often can't start out at those high price points because you products not worth it at that point right. It doesn't provide the value. It takes time to get product market fit with that audience and then and then moving up market and I mean that's all beat Abi stuff also everything you're saying is I don't think really even we're talking to see so. I don't think there's really even a big egg market to go to for an APP. You know there's more expensive consumer services but I've never heard of an expensive at maybe. It's a thing people done everything right now. I'm curious I'm like. Is there an APP for consumers that cost eight hundred dollars a month and has a lot more high end looking in the other up. I don't know yeah I mean I've never heard of one I've heard of. I bought a twenty five dollar APP. The other day wasn't subscription. But it was. It's a teleprompter that goes on my iphone. That listens to my voice. It's the only one that I can that turns a microphone on and as I speak it teleprompter automatically like it and to me that was worth twenty bucks now but really consumer because I bought it for business purposes. I bought it for the video recording so I also bought. I bought a twenty dollar apple paired. It was before they had where you compare an IPAD. His the second monitor to your Mac and it was software. That did that and again there was only one or two of them and I did the best one. But it wasn't a subscription and I pr- I would have been less likely to pay subscription description for either of those to be honest. Yeah no I mean. Those are really tough models to write or they're only making twenty bucks one time right so thanks for your question Winston. Sorry for the bad news but I hope that was helpful. I'm curious if you love recipes or you somehow love that space then digging and figure out like maybe it's not one dollar. Maybe it is a website that you acquire acquire from someone to get traffic source and then you build just a web APP into their. I mean there are other options in the food and recipes space that. I'm sure there's opportunity and I would say don't get locked into trying to pick up penny's really is what is what a dollar a month is like. I didn't actually say the name of the one I was talking about. It's real plans dot com. If you want to check that out awesome awesome. Our next question is about recurring payments. And it's from Gavin esplanade. He says I'm in the planning stage of small daycare management APP. One of the main features. We'll be setting up recurring payments between the daycare providers and their customers who are parents or guardians of the kids. I also need recurring payments for the providers to pay me. I'm a professional Russian web developer. But I'm not sure which system like stripe would be best to accomplish this. I'm leaning towards straight but it's probably because it's the one I've heard of most. I'm not sure sure what other good options would be out there. Do you have any recommendations. What do you think Laura will? There's kind of an easy apart in part to his question so as far as him taking payments events from customers I say yet stripe is great reuse. It we like it. Go for it. The other part where your customers take take payments gets a lot trickier because your customers need to have either. You know it could be something stripe or pay pal. But they need their own individual accounts announce and then are you helping them set that up and then there's no your customer staff that has to be complied with or do they already have their accounts so i. I just want to point out. There's kind of a trickier question within the question. Do you think strep because stripe connect is for marketplace's think it's for this this instance and I've never used used it but I know folks who've set up marketplaces and use it but this isn't technically a marketplace so that's where I'm not sure if the terms of service would apply to him having twenty thirty daycares using it and taking payments or if the new your customers stuff would pass through to him have you. Do you have any interaction with stripe. CONNECT NO I. I've researched it a little bit for her a different project and the hurdle that we came up with is that sort of a similar model. We thought that setting they still have to have their own stripe account witch stripes sort of helps facilitate but like we thought that might be confusing and challenging for this customer to set that up which I imagine daycare centers. It might have the same or they might have their own payment system already that they're that they're using. Yeah so I would head to stripe connect and and at least research it. Because that's the one that I've heard the most about when you're in this type of situation again not saying it's going to work but I think that's that's where I'd start. In my opinion stripe is number one in this game. They'd just they kill it. They make it easy and if you can make it work with them great to me my by my rules if for some reason I couldn't use stripe I would look at braintree. I think they're kind of the number to inner space for for doing this kind of stuff. And obviously you're not it doesn't sound like he's funded. I'm guessing you know. He's he's bootstrap listening to this podcast. But I have heard of you know if you look at like gum road. As an example became a processor themselves and that is a possibility it. Just there's a lot of red tape and regulation and I. I'm guessing like like the one of the reasons I heard number of raised. Their money was that it did give them. They had to go to banks basically and have a bank. Say Okay. We're cool with you being a processor if you're some bootstrapped person working out of your garage. That's unlikely to happen. So it's probably an option for you now but longer term. Hopefully you don't have to do that but that would be a a parachute option. I think so. Thanks as for the question Gavin. Hope that was helpful. Our next question is from Ash Yadav and he's looking for thoughts on joining an early stage startup. Just after graduation. He said I just discovered the podcast. Cast I'm going through one episode of the time. They're really informative and enjoyable. I recently graduated with a degree in which electrical engineering and computer science. I think enjoined an early early stage Internet of things startup. I want to ask. What are some tools courses workshops etc.? I can look into to get more comfortable with the industry lingo as I recently. He graduated working in a two person team right now. There are times when I have to talk to clients or to people who are much more experience than me and sometimes I feel left out. I don't have industry project. Arctic management experience and NBA or the entrepreneurial experience to be fluent in Business Lingo for example. This might sound silly but someone recently talked to me about Betas sites and I had no clue what Beta sites were. Luckily I was able to figure it out while we chatted and made it out alive but I fear I'll be in a similar situation again. You almost certainly will. I remember my first job out of in college and I. I didn't understand anything so thanks. That's a great question ash interested in your thoughts. Laura Yeah I think the first thing ash is that someone asking questions is a huge sign of intelligence not the opposite so everyone knows that you're young. Everyone knows that you just graduated from college edge when you ask those questions like what's a Beta site instead of pretending that you know maybe being way off base it's it's actually only going to make you look much smarter and eager to learn and capable than just pretending that you know stuff and you know. Hopefully most of the people around you feel will the same way that I do i. I don't think you should be shy about asking questions. Even if it's something that you feel is really basic that you feel a bit embarrassed about well you know we all were born knowing nothing. No one knew the term Internet of things until the first time they heard it and to someone explained it to them right. No one is born knowing any other stuff so I mean I think people should do this any time in their career right. We were talking about this earlier in the podcast about learning and asking questions and asking more questions so for me. The answer is less about courses and more just having the attitude and the mindset. That asking questions is a wonderful full thing. And that's how you learn when I graduated from college and had my first job. I thought I need to know everything. I felt weird about asking asking questions and it was. I thought it was a sign of weakness and I pretty quickly learned what you know what what fix it for me is I worked with this. This one guy who is really smart and he was senior senior. Any new bunch of stuff but in meetings he would someone would say concept and I remember being like oh I know what that is and he would say. I don't know what that is. Can you define that for the group and I was like Whoa and everybody respected him and he and that showed me that it was okay to ask a question like that and it was such a good model for me and I think the thing to keep in mind it is. You'RE GONNA ask a lot of questions upfront. But it's not going to be like that forever because you're just GONNA learn enough you're GONNA learn I you're GonNa Learn twenty percent and then sixty percent and then you're GonNa get eighty or ninety percent fluent in all the lingo and that may take three months. It may take six months but at a certain point. You'RE NOT GONNA ask as many questions and then you are going to be seen as I mean. You're so you still WANNA ask ask questions. But you're just going to. You're going to be seen as more of this mid level or senior and you'll get to the point where you don't have to do it all the time. I think for me if I was trying to learn about a new space like if I I I wouldn't know I don't know much about Iot Internet of things. Just what I've heard on tech podcast so if I got a job at one I would be probably a similar boat and I would dive deep in in the Iot. PODCASTS and audiobooks for me I do a lot of audio just because that's my thing for you. Maybe it's kindle or maybe it's paper or whatever and then I would. I would use google a lot so I would. I would almost try to get the lingo from the podcasts or the books in advance and then every time I heard something I didn't understand I would google and you'll be shocked that there's only so many terms in any space in SAS. It's hey it's an APP and there's and there's LTV and that and it sounds like there's infinite but if you listen to this show Oh for probably ten or twenty episodes. You're GonNa hear ninety percent of the terms that we all use and if you've defined those and kind of commit them to memory that's great training. I I think for kind of trying to get up to speed faster. Yeah I mean I I love that advice and I was thinking just the other day I googled. Actually Google the term test case. It came up in my company. Slag they're talking about test cases and I was like you know I'm assuming I know what that means based on some context but like I'm I'm actually not sure that I know what a test case. This is so I just google that I read about it and I figured out of a nontechnical founder thing so this is this is a skill that you WanNa have throughout your career and like rob said. Luckily it will get certainly easier. And you'll have to do less googling. Time goes on. But it's something it's something to embrace to make sure that you're not making assumptions to make sure that you are on the same page which is why it can't be to ask like okay. This is this is what I mean when I say test case is that what you mean because those types of miscommunication come up all the time. Yeah I think that's a really good point. I probably once a week I google acronym mm-hmm and oftentimes it's something someone on twitter and it's like a colloquialism that I just don't know you know I mean maybe a year ago it was t h and I use the other day. I was talking to my thirteen year old. And in conversation out loud I was like h Blah Blah Blah. And he's like what does that mean and I was like to be honest and he's like Oh my God you're such a nerd but I find myself cooling. Those at what does does this mean. And then there's like seven different definitions and you have to take it from context. So don't feel like you're in over your head Ash. I think we all are just because someone has been doing this for a few years. Doesn't mean they you know they everything about it so thanks for the question. I think it's a good one wrapping up for the day. Our final question is from Z. And it's about managing subscriptions. He says Hello Big Fan. What recommendations conditions do you have to manage subscriptions that come both be a credit card and check as the businesses growing? I WANNA make sure I'm not missing out on things. As people renew their subscriptions uh-huh for example we make credit card payments through braintree. I think he means they accept credit card payments through braintree but they also have people that pay check annually and they'd handle stuff through pay pal so it's at the context I was I actually when I read this. I thought he was saying we have a bunch of subscriptions. How do we keep track of those? But he's actually saying they accept payments in a bunch of different ways some of which are annual He says we use quickbooks for all the account accounting want to be sure. We don't miss out on annual fees or have. You had to deal with us. No I haven't is it all credit card with Edgar. Yeah I mean we wouldn't. We would just say no. Thank you if someone wanted to buy with a check but I know that you know some industries you can't you can't do that. We did this with trip after. Let me think after we got acquired lead pages they were set up with. We were using stripe they were using braintree and they think at a certain point start accepting we start accepting pay pal and they were doing these larger annual contract values. You know you get you. Get A toleman subscription. That is twenty grand and really. That's kind of an invoice at check situation. Frankly you don't want to pay the six hundred dollar processing fee the three percent but also companies bigger companies. Binny's as you said. Just that's the way it works and the way we did it like the very first one is it literally went into an excel spreadsheet that or or maybe it was Google doc that we all had access to we're like okay note to self calendar reminder and it goes into a Google doc and in the next month we need to build some type of system and then we just went into our existing because we existing billing code and we tweak some things to say well this is a check and so and so needs to be reminded and sends off an email to this. API The accounts payable wait. A minute accounts. Receivable sorry a are at these certain thing and we kind of hacked together and you know that took one day or two days of development work but in the moment moment we were able to accept the check and we knew there was a calendar reminder in case everything went haywire and then we went back and it was like this just in time. MVP implementation of something. And I'm guessing by the I've been been gone from trip for two years now. I'm guessing now. Hopefully they've built a even a better system. Because I think there are a bunch of ways to do this and I think that that trying to build a gold plated plated version from V. One is not not necessarily the best way to do it because if you only have one or two customers paying you that way you just don't need that much infrastructure. Yeah I don't have of anything on this one. Yeah all right Laura thanks again for coming back on the show. It's so good to chat with you. Folks want to keep up with you. You are at at L. K. R. on twitter that's a great three-letter twitter handle. I'm so jealous. And if folks want to know what you're up to with Edgar they can hit to meet Edgar Dot Com. Anything you folks to check out. I would just like to say people used to be a lot more impressed by my twitter handle. I feel like you can tell the twitter sort of on its. It's way out because I used to get a much bigger reaction. I mean you throw in a little comment which was very polite of you. But I'm a little. I missed out on having a cool instagram handle. My instagram is Laura Care Odor which is the most like. I couldn't even get larger rotor at its pro my middle initial in there. So I'm just like feeling a little old that I missed the instagram saying and no one cares much handle anymore. That's that's my closing comment for this show. That's amazing thank you so much so I guess I should go register and instagram handle is what you're saying that's how old I am. Great thanks again Laura. Hope you enjoyed today's episode next week on the show. Mr Brian Castle whole from bootstrapped web and process. Kit is coming on to talk about just brutal year. He had in twenty sixteen 2017 overcoming a forty percent a decline in the mirror and we walk through his trials and tribulations and dig into some. Frankly some struggles some victories and failures. And it's a good interview also also. I hope you've been tiny details on Thursday mornings. That season wraps up here in the next week or so would love to hear your feedback. Backer input on that. You can email me directly questions so the rest of US dot com. You can twitter de Emmy or if you have great things to say obviously just just go onto twitter and let me know I appreciate. She ate it. Should we do it again. I've started working on a season to doing some interviews. But if you like it if you will listen if it's a good fit for you please let let me now and if it's not that's cool too. It was definitely an experiment as I said when we announced that this is by far the most time and money I've ever invested invested into a audio project and it's cool to be able to you know it's tiny details because tiny was able to make that happen and and if if it's worth it ends providing value than we'll keep doing it and if not we always have more good ideas than we can implement so I could obviously put my focus elsewhere. You heard a bunch of questions answered today. If you have a question for the show you can leave us a voicemail at eight eight eight eight zero one nine six nine zero or you can record an MP three wave an August Orbis A.. A F F F. I don't think anyone pronounces it that way and send us a dropbox or a g drive link to questions for the rest of US DOT com. I tweeted tweeted something out a couple of weeks ago and I said if I were starting a company today. These are the tools that I would use and I've just listed. It was a five minute. tweet tops ops. I just listed a bunch of things and then kind of look through them and made comments and spit out. And it's like one of the most popular tweets I've ever done. These things are fun and infuriating where you spend. Twenty minutes is trying to craft something in like six people care about it and then you you do something like this that is just off the cuff flippant and it gets all this traction I think it has one hundred fifty re tweets. There's something at this point. But the funny thing is just the the opinions about dropbox versus g drive versus box versus you know and it was like why not I got. It's personal preference. They both feature parody. You know these things are not so different from one another. It's really a personal preference of unless there's some individual sneaky feature somewhere that somebody has that you really need for the most part. It's like these things are kind of all equivalent but I think a lot of preference comes into it as well as pricing and stuff. anyways I digress our our theme music on the show. It's an excerpt from song called out of control by band name Moot. It's used under creative Commons. You can subscribe to this podcast and you should. But searching for startups in any podcast where you have to be honest. New Subscribers is a big ranking factor in I tunes and if you're listening to this and you're not subscribed even if you just listen listen to it on the web or are you somehow download it through an FTP script that you coded up years ago. It'd be Super Bowl if you would open I tunes and just hit the subscribe button because it does help us rank rank higher. It helps us get more reach and it helps us well. It just helps us reach more people if you haven't been to startups for the rest of US dot com in a while. We have full transcripts of all of our episodes within in a week or two after after they air we getting the audio live is the number one thing and transcripts. Just take time to get done but we get a decent number of helpful comments on the site to so if you have common on an episode you can obviously tweet me at rob walling or you can come to the website itself started for the rest of US dot com check out the fancy new design. We put in place a couple of months ago and You know leave a comment drop us an email through the contact form. Thank you so much for listening. Today I'll see you next time.

founder Laura developer US Google Twitter Edgar rob walling Microsoft Thomas braintree apple partner Laura Rotor Twenty Twenty Laura Road Technical founder cto Emmy
Python, Passion, and Powering Up SEO's Reputation with Hamlet Batista

Agency Ahead by Traject

29:47 min | 3 months ago

Python, Passion, and Powering Up SEO's Reputation with Hamlet Batista

"Hi, I'm Garrett Sussman, and welcome to the agency ahead podcast brought to you by project. Join me as I talked to a variety of digital marketing experts where we discussed the world of Seo Reputation Management, social media, customer, experience, data, analytics, and so much more learn actual strategies where you can take your clients digital marketing performance to the next level. Okay, let's get ahead. OKAY WELCOME BACK! This is Garrett. Sussman the of content etre jacked on the agency ahead podcast by genetic today. I'm really excited. I am joined by Hamlet Batista. Who is the CEO and founder of rank sense rank sense does some really cool things when it comes to implementation of processes to automate using various big data or any? Sets to basically do a variety of SEO related tasks. Thank you for joining me today hamlet. Yeah No, thank you for having me. Excited we hear error rate, so we both have from New Jersey. My brethren there I know that's where you're base right now. I'd love to talk to you about over the last year. Plus you kind of become this evangelist in the SEO industry community around high time. Can you tell me a little bit about what your kind of? Action for getting the SEO aware of Python, the languages and how that relates to seal. Yeah no absolutely. So to keep the if you WANNA my west side that have a linguist, this manifesto tells you the story. About what happened right, so it was like A. I have achieved my shoulder. Which is have a Saas company we spend months. immigration with a braintree is our baseball. And when we were oh the after. Spending the time in the morning at for to build a gration. We go to the OH. We had to apply for the ahead of time. I wish I'd known that when we mentioned declined it. So why do you declined the merchant account? They said look. You! Guys are high risk. Seo's so one main were Irish. You're SEO's. Yeah you know I. try to appeal to them. And they you know they. They have been burned too many times with SEO's. You know taking advantage allowed the small businesses and win anything for them. And I I feel real embarrassed I so I said. Wow, you know. That's really embarrassing old. These people claiming you know they're wanted to something. He's GonNa. Take a of time. And of the day they know he's not gonNA happen. So make that bit. The make our industry unfortunately prime target for that type of actor, right? So a lot of us, you know if you look back in a lot of people were embarrassed. You COLOSIO's because of this bad reputation circles. People don't trust. At least be people that. Want you don't have an option I either you know I love this data science that I was learning. And I was really excited about attaining background and. Right most careers change in all. On Industry or Let me see if I can use what I learn something about it, so i. I can mobile ideally no I've been really grateful. Right? Come from many different bob leg. You know the stuff that I've been able to do when I. Join a community atmosphere. I've been really grateful. Let me try to see if I can something about it right. The year before the month before the January last year. Dead out I spoke at a technical boost invitation by Poche Shapiro Right. It's all talk about is on. People seem to be excited about my talk about phone he he motivated to. Talk I said why people in I didn't think people will be excited about that geeky stuff. But. They did and I. Same, time around. February checking Ural ask for a new authors and stuff is looking. At pitch, you know I probably can do a casualty about these stuff. The talk when well enough to say yeah, let's try out I read. These articles end of January last year. In SP, my most popular article, it was like twenty five thousand uses the first one. It was like A. And I said. Wow, maybe this I can use it. Know to solely this frustration that I have. Where people don't trust US Ios. They have a bad reputation. Because I said Lucchino data. Scientists are people. If you want somebody that has respect that Bologne second-guessed, them or anything are scientists in our people that. Are objective they take data. So I said, maybe this works. Maybe you can inspire you know the new nine. My generation of s yields that were ready. You know we made a mistake of. Of. Letting the the smoke and mirrors take the president's in industry. Look in a let me see if I can course correct by having the new SEO's take a more objective size driven approach and programming is one way to do that your program. You have to be more effective. You have to be more focus on the data rights instead of looking up. Tried out. And for me, always have to be moderate riots I. said You know one thing. I thought it was a good idea. Being a technical I ver I. If you look at my history, I was speaking in Western riding it for years. When I know that nobody knew about what I knew. Anything I yeah. Because you know it's. It was a big effort for me. It was something that I have to go out of my way to and I don't crave attention I. Don't crave any of that stuff, so it was very hard for me to. WOULD OFF But programming. I love it. I enjoy writing code. I enjoy discovering things I. Enjoy you know I also enjoy. The feedback with wind is useful. I said wow, you know. If I write code the stove something that will end. You know that get excited. I discover something. And then I'm not seeing the writing a writing I'm seeing s describe. is what I put. My mind is I'm not writing. I'm describing something light did something that I learned you know? In when I'm speaking the same thing I'm describing something that I learned through. If you look back what I've been doing, none of my talks, non mice writing is without coat. Write. Code is the money station. Is the fire the fuel that allows me to do it? Because otherwise wouldn't do it. I wouldn't be traveling I. Would. because. That's on. My might eat are now for that but. When I ride the code, discover something I get extremely cited by because I learned something. It's a place in all. She legal to my business. And the other thing is. That I don't have the time to be trying every single idea right, but how about you know so many ideas detritus look I don't. I'M NOT GONNA drive my team crazy trying to chase every single. Come up with I. Don't have the bandwidth. You know. But I don't want that to be stashed away. Where somebody else can benefit from it and who better to benefit the community that I'm trying to be part of and be proud of the art fry. So when you look at all these things I said. This is a strategy that makes the most sense for me. Because with the writing money waiting myself to do it. Getting visibility is this byproduct. credible. And I can't complain about benefits that come from like you know getting people coming to me asking analyst, but I don't have to chase it right. So so so that's just started right as a look at oh. How do I not losing it on work? Sites Searching Google Our. Start Movement Rice look after Sarah Nice. Video. Literally that sold at first video from Derek Silvers. Video of a guy is dancing like tracy. It was like. Look at this lawn. That was Hamlet Selassie. alarm, not writing in articles, people rolling their eyes, CEO, writing pipe and articles. Why is that you know? and. I said you know what the individual is looking. He's along, not because he's the only one doing it, but the first person that follows him. And it started dancing key connector. Stop Personal Day, scared operational. You know and that. Leads to the next one becomes as noble s exact happy when I get like when I started writing this. I didn't make it about hamlet. These style Brian stuff like that. was but a section about the community people that were trying I was win. In, given a shadow to them and when somebody tried what did. Look what he did I have more. She created on amazing log analysis. Being that approach is I'm showing that he's not just I can do it. That people can actually do it. So that's this habit. It's just you know i. that's the motivation. That's how I stay motivated in overtime I seen also the other benefits that I'm getting because. might team. You know it's a lot easier for us to recruit. It's through for sign up clients. Because the trust, there is therapy tation google. You people search. Stop work with deals. You want to become the person that people wanNA work with. And it's it's not built over time. It's not going to happen overnight builds over time. and. A male to have consistently because I see the benefit of. That's how I might have myself to do it. I enjoy these stuff softwoods. Really. Chance to try is for me. Enjoy. It I didn't know that about you. It's really interesting to know that you had that kind of introverted perspective, and then you're putting yourself out there which takes a lot of bravery right because the Internet isn't always the nicest place, but when you come from that place of community and building, and giving people respond to that they understand that and I've seen that in your articles I think it's really cool the way you've encourage other people to share their examples of code and their discoveries than you put them right in the article, so we're all helping each other together its various. When it comes to what you're actually doing with python, what are some of the discoveries that you've made that have helped yourself and your other? Seo's like what are some of the tasks that you've automated that you put out there? What are some of the tasks that you've seen other community members contribute. That's really exciting that you like trying out. Yeah yeah, absolutely then the number of things, the annoys spending credible Riceville so there are many different examples, and you'll see them in my articles rise so most recent one you know, which was an eye-opener. Thought of people was that I showed the. Structured data is future. Is the president right so you have to have? The ranks results. Real results are taking over the organic links. You know that everybody has to do it. The problem is a structure that is a lot is very tiny a lot of work people make mistakes you've been provide the best instructions. Developers can steal him back onto mistakes. So even ten years would structure data more than is being supported by this certaines. Sorry the adoption. Is Not as big as he should be. By more people. Art adopted in tools, combination eastern everything. But still you know something that's very manual code in mistakes. So I said look. How cool is and. I think being able to spend time in completely different industries lie, so I'm out engineering background, but I spent all my time a marcus. Because I haven't engineering back. I think we'll tell it. Take these esoteric courses that are very complicated with math and all that stuff information that have the background. So I learn computer vision couple years ago. And when I'm looking all these exit, y you know, I can use this idea that they're using for the self driving cars on my industry in take. This. Visual instead of visuals of pictures in real life I'm taking street shouts pages in looking at the structure elements as if there were the objects in computer vision model, and it's looking. The. In have the computer generated structure? Gate automatically. Expiration last year's amid a work was wild. It's really cool so getting. People really fight about it. Look I wrote an article. Describing whole thinks you can follow the article you could see. People. Were you know? And you can make that kind, and if you look at, that is something that it takes solid us talking about saving people hours. Tens of hours of manual work and having the computer look this in in these being possible, because when I did a couple of years was very complicated, but now. Is Easy to show at Because that the Technology has become a lot more accessible. Right, everything has become a lot more accessible. So as possible so that that's one example actually keep a one extent the screaming sample. That was all like I. I love that with a because you're showing the Amazon how you can you know all the Amazon structures are the same page and so using the machine learning. You say okay. Here's the images of the product on page. Here's the title here the reviews and then you can use the machine learning, so look at a hundred thousand different product pages and get all of those different elements using the computer vision. It makes so much sense and is accessible. What will let me tell you something interesting right, so we need a couple of years ago. Right and we did it right. I learned when I did they articles right so so I had you know somebody might team. Did some of the complicated You know a couple of years ago I didn't have time to invest. Now I said look, let me take a lot of stuff in trying to simplify for the Detroit I still had to take some complicated things. It make a simple so's. We replace some of this. I replaced almost mail to make it really accessible, right. So when I was doing it I. I I took the screen Amazon page. Has These papa blocks the name of product? So when I had Mike Teamwork work on that, they were putting extract code to be moved off so that they could see a completely. You know into the extraction because that's how they perceive right. But when I tried to look. Let me try to. You know without removing the. And that's not something that will think to do because it was so nice now. Daegu is going to be food. figure it out because if up blocking. Right I try it with up any word. Just think about how powerful ice it usually on the on the article. It draw the bounding box on the product name, even overlapping the up. So so they even somebody. said that was the idea. They say. Oh, another with a proposition looking out that's that's something that's being worked for years. OCR. That's what those. As all these more look at that example, the Amazon is able to extract the element. Even Apple Partially Bulkin. Not WanNa go. Yet, and you can imagine how that gets me excited is you should see picture something getting the? Maybe that's the you know. Try It, and then you get it to work. Right can wait to share it right, so it doesn't matter that you an introvert because most people that live stuff that I'm doing. Datum there are introverts they don't WanNa be riding on. You know right so I found a hack. So that I can convince myself to be able to that stuff because I'm excited share. Make Sense, yeah, absolutely, and and the one thing. It's interesting when you talk industry I love our community I think there are a lot of great people out there, but you hear this criticism that there are a lot of people who speak or teach or educate without necessarily getting into the details and the actual. Implementation, in practitioner, just talking philosophically and I can imagine there's a ton of value what you do because you're actually showing what to do. There's the technical how to step by step, and it's not just all here. Your strategy it's it's actual execution I was just reading your article about what you're doing with Scaling Keyword Research and finding content gaps that seemed like another really cool application. I! Yeah, exactly yeah and points on that right so I. Am I am I was aware I'm aware of that you know the criticism which is balanced by in case and the promise. You have to look at your goal, Ryan. That's what I said, right? What is your go along at times for with most of the time when you're speaking or writing is more about disability than anything else, so you're trying to do it because you wanna be visible. He wanted to credibility one declines. Declines and that's valid thing events by way to do it and what you're actually doing stuff. You don't have a lot of time to the work, so you don't have a lot of time to the work can speak from firsthand experience, and it is speaking before you know really is strong skills in the presentation, an old liberating less crisis, system, but not every talk be tactical relational can be about what you're doing with your teams of that right, I chose a specifically. because my goal was not you know the the disability is the by proxy. Look at my motivation is the movement inspiring people I want to be part of a community that auto. And I'M GONNA learn right so. In an an had said looking up. It's like you're going to school you. Can you know that you need the grace of to ask the class the Rodway you can focus your son. The grades and you're GONNA pass. You're going to be successful in short-term right, but if that's revolt, I just want to have a checklist. You Wanna be able to show that you went to. Voice seasonal. If your goal is to learn, you understand that the scores are only proxies are only that the the signals that you comply with the minimum, they might not be accurate. They might not be reflective of whether. You really learn because you're not really interesting learning. So because my purposes more learning, right? Having something that I can make better decisions for my business is fire, my employees higher and better in having a motivated workforce right that stuff was speaking stuff at a high level that I don't have you know practical experience the match with my strategy, so that's why my approach is different. Right so I have to actually have the hands on experience with doing it, so share it right. so that also works in my favor in terms of. Reputation let building because people gravitate real things in a sense, so they see that they can see when you're really can see when you really know what you're talking about. Especially because nobody else is doing it by says it has to be him because nobody else is going to be physically velcro. They're not gonNA. Know the marketing side. Him that he's still it right. So that is works my favorite right. On the COM-, you know so, that's one part. Right on the other on the other that you mentioned. The! That's another fantastic use case just I. Don't series of articles in talks. Just about intent classification is very very hot, very topic people in all they lack is something that every marketer has zillionaires know when people are searching for something whether you know you're serving in the right content whether they're searching for something. You don't even have to call for that should very. Approach four articles. Journal showing the progression have I evolve on approach. USING LUDWIG DID LEARNING Without burt that was the first one. And got like eighty something percent or seven I. Don't remember that score then I add to it and increase with fewer data. She shows the power of using deep learning and Burke for sample. And then. The next one I said okay. Now that we know how to the list why don't we do it? ingle sheets directly rhinos one that people excited about right. I did another talk about it for Seo for live. which was about intention noxious looking at the? The the classification of the keywords. Trying to extract even intention of question, so when people I wanNA travel from from this place this other place about time, even having the algorithm extract time locations just just amazed. Data sets and you when you're dealing, you know if you're if you're working for a large, you know all. Travel site you're talking about. Millions of of keywords interactions you know. Having that ability to combine big data, the have all these massive state askew data sets, and being able to aggregate them into meaningful. You know intentions. You can only do that with the learning at the in in this in this space right right now, the technology you can do it as possible right so that's one one one use case. A Northern, one related to intensification, after that was one eighty for traffic. Tink time on. On Life You know our charting act so now. I show that you can use. who'll those keywords? In fine weather counting gaps, you can contin gap announced this in I said you know not just the content gap announces competent, tight gap analysis the inside the content. Whether you, have you need a video or an image or questions that and using the this? The surf features right. I was using the SEM. Rush Api pull the SURF features. And ask the demand right. This surf feature say that there's demand for video that is demand for stores. Men for question certify now receive your content. Medical Structure Data from page. To See if If you had the content they are only possible options. The content is there in you having tonight of this structure data. Opportunity, because you need to have the structure data, or you have a structure data, but you don't have the content on the page. And then what the looking when I do that announced on one of the clients came up as the biggest opportunity video you saw that. That was a lot of the men for video based on the search features. But now pages each have contact with me and you can understand why that would be the case because the content producing video content is, there's a cost associated with it right now. People the one to a front when they're not gonNA work for them to provide the our why. It? It makes so much sense from an actual business use case standpoint, because if you can identify the search intent for a transactional type of query, and you can identify the type of content that's. Needed for that type of query, and you're not producing it when you go and produce it. I mean as a bigger business you could all the sudden start generating millions of dollars by having the right content on the right query, and that's where you kind of implement. This strategy on big data across the universe right exactly and but but the thing about the best are. The best part is that you're showing the Araya Front? Because that's the hardest are also on even as marketers getting the buy in from executives right? It's a lot easier when you said look in on this analysis. Google is already asking for this right and they so much. This X. amount of search demand for it. People are coming to an RPG's are showing up. Connected Research Council, but nobody's clicking because we don't have the content, so we already seen that are searching. Betas are showing up, but we're not serving the right type of content for them in. Here's a search feature to show that we serve that type of content we are going to just. Grab that in the traffic and we're not talking about the are learning building or stuff like that. We're saying that this is low hanging fruit. In the floor ready to be because it's already there. It's just that we have to investment to create a video content for. Whatever format were missing yeah? because. There are millions of new long tail queries every single day anyway, so if you're a hedge competitors by just almost predicting and improving. Through another method that you put together of like improving your click through rate through predictive, click through rate. Being able to increase it on your organic links just by understanding the universe, and what is going to ultimately lead more clicks. All this is going to lead to You know higher traffic to your website on the pages that matter. Really Cool Hamlet I appreciate your time. This is I geek out and talk to you for hours as I'm sure most people can when you start talking about Seo. But as we get to the end of the one thing, I been doing with a lot of my guests is in the context of COVID and black lives. Matter and everything is going on. I've been asked him I guess what you're right now. 'cause I'm what is a charity or something that people can do in their communities that can give back the you'd like to amplify to our audience. Yeah so I think I will like to to encourage people to. Contribute to the food banks right in local communities right so look at your at your for banks, and they in the charities focused on the NBA. Are Close Right. There is so you know. A lot of are struggling. We need that right, so you're not going to be traveling miles and miles and find you know the place used to. Issue that right so so there is commanding there Sheri's try to support. Those Those SNB's also you know for example I couldn't go to my mino- my my barter for for weeks. I was saying I was just because I was using the cash apple my on my phone every week. You know I shave you myself and I'll stand out. Send them likely like I was still paying him over remotely. You really appreciated that I for weeks kept sending. To him awesome, thank you because I know. He was probably struggling because he. How many clients right? so yeah, so that's the support of the people that used to in different ways. You know you can afford that. Or the other Shari's support them. Yeah you know. Everybody's is all about helping each other out and more together through this. I love that and I mean. Our communities are more important than ever so supporting those businesses is really important, and it's not stopping just because you know if you're in your area where things might be a little bit better, or they might be getting worse. It's a constant thing. Where gotTA come together? I love that I. Really Appreciate it Hamlet I. Realize you're an introvert, but you're so helpful if someone wants to find you online, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Rank Sense. Yes, so you can find you know. I'm very active on twitter. You can go to Hamlin Batista. S My twitter handle first name last name together, and you can also go to my website since dot com, we also have a twitter account on rank since rank sense the to account something. Really cool that you if you're interested in spicy stuff I have a couple of interns their computer science. Students and they are writing python tutorials as they're learning in a mentoring them on on to were abolished them every Thursday, so this is a. Is? Something is nobody's accessible, so you can. Blanket with the links as popular issue with some Maceo Seo specific. Actions that that's going to be rickles all that that is so cool. I make sure that we have a link in the show notes to make sure people are able to find that as long along with all of your social links. Thank you again for being my guest? I really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me was added laughs plus thank you. Absolutely, this is Gary Susman they had to content you check for the agency ahead podcast by project go get ahead.

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POG #26 Imani Development Facilitates Economic Growth & Poverty Reduction in Developing Areas

Pioneers of Good

36:43 min | 1 year ago

POG #26 Imani Development Facilitates Economic Growth & Poverty Reduction in Developing Areas

"Create a business, you can be proud. Leave a legacy be a force for good. Leave the world a better place. Become a pioneer of goods. Meet the game changes of the world's these entrepreneurs are uniting the world of making money in the world of doing good, and they're succeeding, more and more people are joining the community of doing good whilst doing business. So listen to these interviews with a hunger to learn more, and U2. in country to changing the world's. In areas that required greatest assistance. There already ready policies procedures in place to support them yet sometimes it's not the policy, that's missing. But the implementation on the ground and descending how implies to their lines while these communities. I'm groups of people have to cross borders daily in order to trains and enough money to survive in Mani developments has been active in the Caribbean. Sadaqa psyche shazier. I'm acidic, but over thirty years advising policymakers, governments, and development agencies in how they can reach the people that are quiet. They're almost as they translate, the legislation for the people and also translate people for the legislation has I catch it with one of the directors. Duck. Nick shallow mine, and talk about his role within seven Africa. And the challenges that he faces and been very simple and surprising solutions. He's found. For your interests. So little bit about e company official model where a check to found. We all profit, very traditional think the one thing I would say, is that the prophet is most survival might today. Industry is in the company, the founder of the companies still off. See it doesn't really do any operational started as something old comic missionary are gonna yet was, it was a fast may in the sixties Lord of faith organizations in the would send out young economists to work with a face. Sloganising in expo planet program. So this was before Fairtrade was was made straight, uncertain very much that adds if you might coaching necessarily tubes. I have to stretch we all respect you the company, I myself have a belief system. But I think the idea of working for I oppose is something that is common to everyone stays with us. Yeah. That is one of the things that is interesting in this business is on sing conscience with needs Vostok to invest phased, eight school fades. And I think that's a challenge that some of the technical, skills are not aware, marriage to be to virtual conscience. So we came member of stuff takes along time to place because we do need that almonds full, my sends. I'm the economists for redemption. I bid the masters in low in trade lower out is which was surrendered sleep punishing with Bilgin travel. Maybe our coke and say, McCollum has improved something like that. That's very definitely space. Be working. Again. You do say that what you just said about quantitive analysis of numbers in law in quite boring. It may be knots. The most sort of exotic of topics that you do have your wind knits, at the end of the day, people need to measure, something, even if it's social impact, we need to measure back to make sure that it is going in the right direction. So what I see you guys doing even though you might cool, it dull is actually the foundations to measuring the success of our companies, amber future, the next generation, I would agree, an I find fascinating. However, I two nine of topics in a box. So I, but I gotta guilty secrets is noble. People say shades with innovation development. It's I think people have a view. Citing side valid -ment as being very much engaged community Ethel a much more hands on IT rest. So all's is the dryer. But again, I think I to identify with the I'm gonna put a more amounted view of development communities. I think that is clear. Why one reason why joy so much it, what we've been giving most gale, a smooth fail businesses because yes, you're in that your shoes. Kobe debate to mothers, you will throw Budapest. So I to feel not full foul but full for that, so that romantic notion of what working in Baynes. Life. When if you will, you know, case, the dis breast the sort of gags with the numbers as well. I'll give it my best shot. But really motivates me is drying, make broiled assets rain certainty bring order to bring benefits to do the economy's in. We walk in that currently regulated full business out. We translate sort of the business rules role people who operating for only treatments a year on the side of it in shock. That's house Bill standing sometimes cassava, sometime saddling, textiles Jonah of deck styles from Iasi. So I think one of the essence firing a Gatemouth we've had recently with Zambian crossborder trade is sense, yet took me to boulder with the AUSSIE and beyond. See is Lola's a challenge trying. Bring safety of loyal to lawless environment across cross-border drivers. And then often not help by the officials that they have to deal with this trans sensation. It was up stadium age thing, gauge constantly with electoral Sardis on. When trade is our rests. In the office of been that only the side Sunday themselves Bill to bridge between each other north thing themselves as competitors. But as p with same needs full security when you cross the border, and I in, they managed to out bring this to life. Okay. You go to a border in many of our countries, and you will have roads you will have a lot of trucks backed up for miles you will have a dodge channel for trucks, will the big, the big Trump voters. I'm not saying it works. Well, but it infrastructures that any come to look at these thousands of people who crossing the bowl, but the bolts, the people carrying heads airing ATO's leave in goats mixed with people who are getting also offs traveling from work to home for the Christmas break. What this will denies ation has actually managed. Builds to get you tease to Bill. Stafford channel full is. Heinous unto outset buildings and set for prices the appropriate and in the middle of this disastrous framework. Enter the absence of lower on on on Joe side still manage to create a moderately site Spence too people. Trade through constantly innovating they're trying to build era market, where isn't related gonna get their money back from renting the shops yet? It's competent. The ideas just walking with energy king with equal. He really needs see solutions that in earliest, barring an hosting a workshop in a muddy field is somehow much more real than most of the workshops where I'm in an apple. Doubt on what is it the Taliban folks, then we got. So I think that's that really is far in while you're dealing with a great while creating solutions. South's. And I mean, you've enrollment your sort of work. They I mean, we can hear the that you create security and safety for them. And also speed so that they're able to trays mall, which means the making more money for their own here for their own life as well. Imagine that you went into Ceuta tumultuous sewn on the cross-border, too often, legal advice in halladay, kids, the trading safer and quicker voters as well. Would you look at that sort of example, and measure how you could replicate it in different areas of your country that you supports? In a way that comment on camp on this idea with the lesson burning us. And then the transfer ability second, I think those are actually crucial. I think that the less to learning I think we all different. I think most people engaged in what we do catching up as it's the only way to be affected. I think what we do is different in the eight to challenges. Listen to the challenges the trade is happens solutions are coming up with. We will translate into these long legal framework aren't seem totally removed from the reality of these traits arena. The adage, what, not giving up, yet we deal with e you style region degration as it takes you about two years to get comfortable with the legal framework, and it really is on you. To the Bank on Khanates. So I think the lesson money we it's the point joint process. We will listen to them drawn translate will their problems are in too much for legal or institutional solution. And then see how that fits with them. And so it votes, but a main Braintree soup not through all being off being clever aimed from having such a wide range of experience. Get jonquil east Africa between Rwanda and the again, the DRC am between Rwanda Uganda day, have very easy migration teams to manage locally lately, in fobel, bigness can fool allies. The we have all Malaya's, the we have been working with all hope to more precisely. The organization of migration. Really? Introduce outs flat. Flat. They sort of add hope dilutions to getting across a border that was drawn a history, not by contents often, we're working on, bold is a town is divided Clinton countries. Yes, one was Frank, one was on the phone in its colonial accuracy, f- town in off. It's absolutely makes no sense. Some of big divisions, we say this, the purchase is for the solutions that are coming from grand out. Do we formalize that on the way? Legitimise it accurate, nen Ronit up. Always walk the way when we take arrangement from one based not, it's not always office. They walk. 'cause I'm not much of the culture of the officials Iraq the borders as anything transit to the solution itself. But I find your question. But that's the role we into me drian. Translation robe. Ebay. I mean from what I hear it starting spoke. So you might need lessons new experience to demonstrate that you are affective, but every scenario kitty Thomas, an independent on the last one. We stop aunt, we succeed, and we are able to translate the different solutions in. Yes. Okay. On cable. We'll say in some cases alien tambi. We need a much more heavily bureaucratic process when we had somewhere else, we still manage to get a Blue Cross border quips, just the investment and the system that is used to it has to be much. Heavier because of the culture bureaucrats in bolts visit enough, olders you speak enough trade as you up with enough traders somewhere amongst the tools, that they've come up with you Bill finds some things that you compact cage. But. Say that I'll be proved wrong by funds. But I hope so. But all we should judge on whether we are able to fishing translate lessons on into two nations. That can be scaled up as if everything is bespoke. It's too costly by state. How begin? Sort of on a corporate level. What is that you are aiming to change? I think the on Cobra has different strengths if you speak to another direct to he's asking about agriculture, and he would say that we have to make England fisheries in Africa of team reduction in a way that stain -able and the UN. The rest of the company does Nick this. So for me, I can I can speak mine our area. I think I will. My success or legacy will be whether we have managed to take these launch on doctors regional integration by Ian, most of the Africa region integration is driven on an e you Modelo create laws in it will walk if I tend on how contribute making regional integration walk all the small and the Gora unto not thread, the baby out with voter adapt. What we've got. Then I consider that good enough. Greats what you touched on. I think it's relevant everywhere. But in particular, what I'm hearing would be areas that you present siphon eastern seven in eastern Africa areas that you were policies created with good intention for the masses. But it's so bespoke Nisha hundreds of thousands of different communities. How can it be brought to, you know my favorite phrase, member, to life for them that it works for them? Whilst on the on the law. The solutions that the, the mole of been found the United in the same way that if you look at the map of roads in the U K, some of the main all treat, they'll follow roads, the round belt even mouth. I feel in many of the countries, I want in the regulatory framework still echoes business models of empire that certainly not radical new, but the consequences are very serious in that solutions are generally, informal netphone not wrap the painted. We just need. Listen on, we need taken seriously unresponded to them as fines as essential to what we do other than just. They don't what we're doing ready. Keep quiet which which often seems case. I mean you mentioned this in the note she sent me process into you've got a golden opportunity to integrate, the people Centric approach, and that is why I only examples you brought his back to the people that you're serving rather than below the lowest to serve the people not the people to follow the norm. Very muchly books. Yes, you know that look should the people rather than have it. It's sort of existence set crypt to the needs of, of Iraq me beat me to Olympic. I am more positives where we own out than I have been in decades and almost fits. The crisis of legitimacy. The regents Gration has in Europe is similar many oxidants. Southern in eastern Africa, what been for us. Not bury negatives, potentially negative sentiment is really prompting a lot of the regional say, well, I'm to prove myself around him. We draw it up. Very fast trade strategy for smooth failed. Traders in Rwanda, thank the twenty twelve or fourteen, and there was no other g insolvent in eastern Africa. That was the very fast. Over the last three years, we've Droste it's the whole of the AC trademark east Africa with an organization in, in east Africa, the deals with one, the Brundi net Uganda say what we started with ru on his now scale don't of east Africa, the EU European Union to sign off on a million euro each vote will fulfilled traders in the army larger foot only been walking full blast is years for John Hayden Savic to develop bendy. It's much more encouraging. Now that has been full of, of same, but I won't use this regulation one, it's not tribulation, but no one gives it in fingers crossed. It's an exciting time undestood just to touch on what you said about the wig. With trademarks. What that means? The trade is, I'm guessing this lady who's go to bury beautiful bag. Nitrate Moffat s- said, no. She just sell once, once people, she sees that she not as market to exploit potentially. I was not clear that multi stuff is the trust. Okay, it is element programs on spy. The light said that development UK, the Swedes the banks so trademark Kice faster. Fast is actually been is Asian. He Hugh of Fatema of trademarks has proved very important in these Africa. They have lost some that traditional designs enjoyed by other countries. Said, flipside of what I'm says is not aspect will say reaches the only do you need to ensure that no shakes. Might livelihoods from sustainable, and she beats the office months. Does their shops in the woods? If you'll know up to date with what is happening in the twelve. Trademarks, and intellectual property, come bites you shame. I, I would never have imagined. No indigenous design that she's in stone by nother country. Be intentional or otherwise that. Yeah. It just shows how important is to keep the uniqueness while alive in these regional areas protected. Yeah. It is very you know, I think what has driven notable works isn't increasing recognition, many faces I may light. Me, how these international roads and trade rules that not much. To wish but, but you should be given the fact that you're onto embraceable grabble market buildings national roads, better. Get your house in order. Another aspect about yourself. I mean, have did you get involved in working in this company because I'm guessing it wasn't didn't wake up one day and university, and go, I want to for a company on a mission, and to with these, these trade loss. Little boys agents and helped health every community. Maybe it is I have in on development. Very such will sit Yoon westie. I loved the idea of a combination. All's at me each James Aitken show bevy on it. Dealing with tools of business. Snus people in, you could succeed in business. Well. Also, I'm helping people's. It's very ego. It was very ego driven at that age. I can jokes Beveren him. Help Abela I could on the final identing that's naturally change just from the owning a bit more money than I did a you recognize a may be. It's over. Was it? I did. I ended up giving economic development at Uni. My first job was in China. What can full price to house? An economic open country still have made from that time. My masters was in economics data HD, send to study of economies and not again. Broken back Kenya? I worked on men own Aden of tea, I watch near pink, Michigan trading of the unenthused to Africa to what for regional as Asian eight of eight of harried on lodging trade book, the better off, so it's not the mice scintillating of older, biographies good them. But why this company, I like most consultancies Mont mines thing is ably. Nj is commercial. Face. I'm not very good at sacrificing my stand. The mind beliefs on many shouldn't be this, this anyway, who has anything to. Thing to. I'm taking it offers balance. If we won't do more than us, we have enough. The knee sauce say, I am not a believer, the venue system that is last it gives us space say, if it's the right thing to do. I don't have to mommy on it after get approval. I don't have to among men. I know there will be the companies out allow that, but I didn't feel gene, to, to bid are actress bozo companies that that's really what with Emami for twelve years and salted for join bit. So new what I would I knew them off kit. And this was the one seeded me. Yeah. You the company of be on your website, and it does say that you will fool economic growth, and also poverty reduction in developing world, the me, it's refreshing company to own the guys want to profitable that you don't want to sacrifice your personal needs in order to leave a positive legacy in other communities as well. And I truly believe the way forward full companies, the more you guys in the more, you can do those not for profit zone, nations, fine management skills that you can share with other communities that may not have businesses to pay us. So is hugely refreshing, meet your company's uncompleted like you. Thank you to that. But I some on the web. So the day school. Lilt fund that used to walk I think probably to that we ought to essential enterprise. But yeah, I appreciate what you saying. Thank you. It's noble as in needs. It, it means I can eight moderately well, in sleek moderately, well, you man. Kate balance. Yes. A motive about you date where he based, by the way, I'm based in Bristol in the UK. Clearly on the because you'll ravens not too big. I guess. I. Yes, it is. Most of my clients are online. So I could be location independence. It went three my originally from Wales have been based in Wales, and it's a great gateway to Europe. So clicks straight. Just cheat a you know about. Kate, you be tell me more about what you do. So for the last few years, I was the one to one coach for startup companies I was helping people create businesses or get them in a position to receive finances scale recently, I've started, stepping into corporates to, to sort of help them transition from just a pure profit company into driven company as well. So that's sort of a new set for me. One is it? I am woman to be honest, but I'm also seeing a great impact because you the one client, helping not she is. It's over of seven figures, rather than one person preteen started. So that's what I'm doing at the moment still in the massive hit, loon face for me. Because, you know, I'm just by myself, I have the g to move to what my clients once that I definitely want to be around his driven ethical companies. Is that a sustainable doses? One thing that springs mind that we on Adamy. May be share. Links out. Which is based in New South African officers based in office. Saul. Bandits is about training, not based off of the large companies, the venture suppliers, it companies the load of the what we do is also done. Gross teams linking, taking what y'all doing on the corporate side, saying, okay, you, you now need kill locally apprentice sent there is no cool dry. That some of the stuff that at it's kind of doubts note of the stuff that we do on a large scale, I say should enterprise academy train very small scale, this genuinely larger onto projects. If you see any Velappan certainly have another, you'll web try, that's and if that makes sense that would be one two phones. Yeah. If I tried to the full of your mind, whatever reason, sweets ice, as well. Democracy. Yes. Thank you so much. And just this little pub, the very last place for the put costs. And I always look to ask this one question is, whether you see it or not, I see you as a leader. And as high near these industries, I know it's a shock, but you are. And if we look at what we were doing forty years ago, impedes today, there are some things we look, backing Wyan it will be doing this. So imagine if we were to fast forward forty years, in fact, today, what's in your industry or what you see around you? Are we doing that? You would see as quite chaotic or ridiculous, and, yeah, I'd love to hear folks. That's. Owner of our ages. I see I think that they have in recognized. I think there are steps being made. Moving Ehrich but I don't think Boston off. I think the idea. Else is being come up with solutions the on rigid. Has all the trinity the house. It is insane. And we still say it. I think the I did apps somehow regulation, not shakes among kanobi differentiated purely given the when we have a typewriter. Yes, we have to be Ronald a straightforward in Multan hit. I think the I we, we have a one size fits all the see too old in how we regulate business how we make trade. It is. Disappearing needs to if foster just this idea of being able to govern yet, I'm being separate from those who are governed. It's just impossible to imagine in drank tea is on. Of Beijing, the national area, Don, I'm still shocked that beneficiaries on grateful to the fact that I have listened to them toes. Means your experiences with others been you haven't been listening to you've been should do. Inflate history will be I was strongly. Thira. That brings to mind it really resonates with I spoke with a company last week, they said you might give him on a fish, but he might not like fish Selena off. So if you vegetarian. I see. She's don't for the cost just fed actually amazing as one of the PawSox ads. I wouldn't say for him to look. Okay. Damone. One of the questions I have to ask of we did this extensive estimator analysis. We found sales sausages to certain countries below the economic analysis. This. My hat to write the representatives who Austin to explore this every single one of those countries is very cliff stop Muslim. Hira eight. A scattered on a doubt. It was an mentioned that designs Inc, who say a lot of what I see as a. Of posed combatants. I think is also dreads lack of appreciation allowing -fensive bring the writing is in side. You follow the companies that do Shimin what we do. They may not have such good reputation. That is probably because they ate of actually done the work. If it's this world's resorts them today in a of humility, we often juice take the hit on the costs. Do the right. Job is not of the competent. I don't think the salt there is much more than at trade off the cash than what should be done. The not stay difference. Definitely. Definitely and I mean to against us a key kisha. We are born with to me is not to my so we need to single to what people want. Rush. The. Thank you via not suit, specia- answer. Really appreciate your time. Okay. By the best. Knicks humanity his knowledge about his intellect and abolsute by the change is making within the communities in seven Africa is very humbling. What's Imani developments is accomplishing is no means vit is giving the voice to voiceless, and it's also ensuring that these policies wick for the people and it works in a realistic ring. We don't want to create yet move at tight. The started entrepreneurs and people who are existing through trains. We want to ensure that the policies of the support and protect them. So these policies are tool for their exceleron action, not for the whole bucks. I was shocked to hear that you could trade Ma indigenous tribes Hazan's yet, this is what's happening. And this is why Mani developments, which is so crucial. They need to protect these voiceless. Because these people don't even think that's a possibility that intellectual property. What's been pasta for generations could be taken from any fifties and serve your inspired to humour Imani developments than he's visit. They website in Mani developments. Come and see what services they often, the case cities that they successfully accomplished and the currently working on. Ready to step up the pioneers, if yes, getting touch with me? Mine is strong. And I'm on a mission to create more businesses that are profitable and get in touch with you. My Email is Hello a plan years of good dot. I promised I didn't fight reach. I drop me an Email and we can catch up over a virtual coffee to see how you to join the tribe of pioneers of. And if you enjoyed this episode then teams like subscribe and shared this podcast, the more we can share the message of creating profitable, and purpose driven companies, the quicker, we can change the road together and just involves you pay on your social media channel. So intil. The next podcast he impulsive action.

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The Case of Sacco and Vanzetti

Stuff You Should Know

58:12 min | 1 year ago

The Case of Sacco and Vanzetti

"My name is Danny Shapiro. The host family secrets three years ago. I took a DNA test and this test meant to be a fun exploration of my family history turned up a massive family secret. I wasn't who I thought I was join me, and my guests in the journey of family secrets wasn't a family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or ever you get your podcasts. And if you want to read about my family secret, my new memoir. Inheritance is available. Wherever books are sold. Welcome to stop. You should know from how stuff works dot com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. And there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer Josh over there. So you put the three of us together. And we're gonna get a little true crime history on you. But the trial of Sacco and vans. Eddie. Yeah. These guys. A little back story on I guess the time we're talking about the nineteen twenties in the United States. We're talking about two gentlemen that were both anarchists that were both Italian immigrants and both supposedly followers of this really notable anarchist. Name Luigi Galyani who this guy was sort of an anarchist leader. He put out a Arcus rag. He was called for violence has a history of authorising like bombings assassination attempts like really tough stuff. Right. And so this is who supposedly Saccone vans. Eddie were you know, I guess by association advocating advocating, sure advocating for this type of violence themselves as immigrant anarchists. Do you? Remember? In our anarchism episode like during this period in like a ten year period, anarchists assassinated like five or six major heads of state around the world, including McKinley in the United States him the big deal. It was a big deal. And I mean, there was also a struggle going on for the soul of America where we're gonna be socialists where we're going to be capitalist. Should we just go with anarchism? There was a a lot of a lot of. Debate over you know, which which Konami we should go with her. What what politics is you go with? And there was something of a red scare because communism was on the table to there's a red scare the time too. So it wasn't like the kind of time you would walk around like Yemen anarchists. No get on board. You know? But at the same time if you weren't an anarchist you're probably scared of Arne anarchists because they would bomb stuff and they were well known for it to. Yes. So this is not just the United States like all over the world. There were political radicals that was violence from anarchy and in Bryant's. And like you said people trying to take down like politicians or judges that were deporting at least the United States deporting immigrant anarchists back to their home countries. Like, it's quickly as they could root them out, basically. Right. So this is sort of the stage in the early nineteen twenty s and I guess we should hop in the way back. Sheen. Oh, yes. Let and head on over to Baston town. Okay. That's Boston, by the way. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't matter. If I know make sure the way back machine knows your way back machine, those it can read my silly accents. So so here we are. It's nineteen twenty around Boston. Actually, we're not in Boston proper worry about ten ten miles south in little town of Braintree yet wishes these days would be Boston proper. So I mean, you know, more. Yeah. It's like the metro Boston area. Right. Am Braintree was known as a Shuman you facturing center had more than one shoe company, which meant it was a shoe manufacturing center and on this particular day in April of nineteen twenty. I think it was April fifteenth, right? Correct. In braintree. There was a dude named Shelley Neil who was an agent for the American Express company and the function I got of Shelley Neal was that he would he was kind of like a a Brinks. Armed guard. Yeah. Currier for money and not just some money like a lot of money. Yeah. On on this day from the nine eighteen AM trained from Boston showy Neal went to the Braintree. The Braintree train depot and picked up thirty thousand dollars thirty grand in cash, which is about four hundred twenty seven thousand dollars in two thousand eighteen money. Yeah. He did this every week. Right. He picked it up. And he took it back to his office, and he opened up a metal box and inside ahead to two canvas bags and each was the payroll for one of the two shoe companies that he picked up money for one of which was called Slater morelle. I'm not sure what the other one was. Maybe it was three K. Definitely Slater immoral one of them. The other was new balance. Okay. Yes. To Slater Merill in new balance where the ones whose payroll he had on him that day. Yeah. And it's it's so amazing. How that stuff used to work back then like help payroll just so low fi it would literally be a huge amount of cash delivered in a box that he would take to an office in someone would sit there and stuff cash into envelopes to then go to like a factory to pay off employee's not pay off but the fake to pay them. They're legit. From working. You didn't see nothing this week. This is for all the shoe leather. So that's how it worked back then. And so this is what he was doing is just like any other Thursday, however on this day as he went in. He noticed a car out front that he had not seen before this big car that had like these little curtains on the inside windows that were pulled shut and other people in Braintree later on would report seeing that car kind of tooling around. And they said it looks like it's got like four or five men inside that look at talian, and they're just sort of driving around Braintree, which I guess to raise some suspicions. Sure. Because again, if you're Italian you've may have been associated with anarchists who were associated with bomb throwing so four or five of them kind of aimlessly driving around the town of Braintree. This little tiny town. I'm sure arouse some suspicions indefinite. Did because there are a lot of people who later on said that they saw this car driving around between nine AM and twelve PM. That's right. So about three that afternoon. Here's what happened next for payroll. These people had to get these envelopes. So what's known as a paymaster, and this is also sort of part of the armed guard thing because the paymaster a has a gun, and then has a guard with a gun. This guy's name was Freddie, Parmenter and the guard was Allesandro better daily. And so they stopped by pick up all these envelopes. They're going down to the factory. They're gonna pay everybody and all of a sudden, bam bam. Bam. Bam gunfire in may him ensues. I didn't realize there's going to be special effects. Hey, well, you know, I try to go you did man. It has been brought it. So they're these guys are on Pearl street in when the shots just a ring out and the first guys hit buried Eli's hit. And he goes down. I believe it was bare deli who was hit. I. No. He wasn't hit was permettre who was hit Berra deli is on the ground, and he has lost his gun, and these he's being approached by a man with a gun on him and berry deli apparently is big for his life to no avail. The man shoots him in the chest. At least once in the bullet punctures as long's one of his major arteries to his heart and lodge, its largest it self in its hip to be fished out later on by coroner and used in the case against seco- in vans. Eddie, the other guy partner, the paymaster he gets hit a few times Saggers across the street, and in collapses, and this car a blue touring car, which is you know, a big sedan that you would think of today like a touring. We'll call it a Lincoln towncar, even though that's not at all. What it was that blue car that had been seen driving driving around. Right. Okay. That's another way to put it. It was a Buick. Yeah. The but the same one that had been seen driving slowly around Braintree. All morning suddenly pulls up and the guys who had shot these these two men and taken the money about fifteen thousand dollars hopped in drove off and everyone lost sight of it. Yeah. In very importantly, the man who shot Barra deli had a hat a felt cap on. Right. So just remember that little fact there were eye witnesses all over the place. It's not like no one saw this happened like dozens of people saw this. Yeah. It was a daring daylight robbery at three o'clock in the afternoon daring do right manning. Jimmy, Boe stock was one of the witnesses apparently bear deli like died in his arms, and like all people in the nineteen twenty s didn't know any better. He immediately started messing with the crime scene. Started making up gun shells. Another guy came by and picked up the hat, and you know, they just did. No any better at the time. I guess right. So they the the crime scene has been totally messed up the cop show up. Because again, this is a big deal is a small town and something close to two hundred and twenty thousand dollars have just been stolen in two men murdered for it in this little tiny town. So there's a big deal and the cops showed up and probably the first thing they said was in artists. Maybe I'll bet it's kind of what they would say. I think at the time. Yeah. Should we take a break? Jeez. Okay. Already. Yeah. I think so I mean this falls into acts, and that's definitely act one. Okay. All right. So dead men in the street. The cops are on the scene. Message fans and seen. Attention everyone. Stop what you're doing because it's time for stamps dot com. That's right. We know you're busy. And you know, you don't have time to go the post office. No, get it to real hassle. That's why stamps dot com we'll swoop in on their white horse to save the day. Yep. Stamps dot com brings all the amazing services of the US postal service right to your computer. Whether you're sending invoices or shipping out products. All you do is use your computer to print official US postage twenty four seven for any letter any package any class of male anywhere. You want to send once it's ready handed off to your friendly, mail carrier, drop it in a mailbox. It's that simple. As right everyone. Save time and money today. Get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale with no long term commitments, just go to stamps dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in stuff that's Dame's dot com. Enter stuff. Is an seen or in seen Chuck? We've talked about this a lot and seen with the end scene. Nope. Because it makes sense you you do in the scene, right? So. Scene. So the the cops have shown up there investigating the place. They're not really finding anything aside. From what the witnesses have already kind of gathered up now holding out to them in their outstretched palm. Like, here's your evidence. Copper, but the the the cars searched for all over, and it's not found it just totally disappears for a couple of days and the the current up a couple of days later in the woods. I believe south of Braintree and place called Bridgewater, which is a little even further south from Boston. I think it's another like ten or so miles down south from from Braintree? Right. I think Bridgewater only had seven Dunkin donuts. So it was a small town. Right. And so remember when I said the cops would probably like anarchists knew it. There was another daylight robbery of payroll. And I found somewhere that it said it was successful. I found somewhere else that it was unsuccessful, but both of them agreed there been no loss of life whatsoever. But it was similar enough in it had happened like two years or a year before it was similar enough that the cops immediately thought of the people they've been thinking of for this for this earlier crime. They thought this is clearly the work of the same people. Yeah. And when they found this car, in the woods, very importantly, the license plates had been ripped off. And there were other tired tracks nearby. So it seemed pretty obvious that you know, they ditch this car get in another one the officer on the scene said Maddie. I think this is. From the Braintree meta. All I can think of is Jeremy Renner in in the town. Sure. That's that's what I think of when I think Boston. Yeah. Everyone thinks of that. So. Another things going on in parallel. So we need to set this up also on April fifteenth, which is the day of those Merida's. There was a guy name federal Chiro Cocchi, and he lived in Bridgewater. He was an anarchist. He was being deported. So he quits his job, you know, to be deported. Does not show up to be deported. He calls the immigration service after that on the sixteenth and said, you know, my wife is a sick. So I have to tend to our and they said. And they said she get in trouble for that. Now. No, you won't control. Everybody loves your talion X, please tell me you can still do an Italian accent. Right. I think so we're going to find out after this episode because I'm just doing the accent. Sure, not saying they're all mobsters because like, you know, the sopranos got in trouble for that. Oh, yeah. Did they did they say all the talian Ramab stirs? No. But I mean, I'm remembered they're just being hey about from the Italian American community. Like, why is it every time in movies were just mobsters? Oh, I could see that. You know? Sure. I mean, I could see them. Yeah. These aren't even mobster they're anarchists. Right. So he's being deported. He doesn't go. He calls them and says my wife is sick. And they said fine. We're gonna check out your story, though, they found that his wife was not sick. And that all of a sudden he saying, okay, it's fine. Actually, I'm really ready to go. Like now, come on come on. Can you get me out of the country quickly? And they're like, well, you should probably like leave some money with your wife was like, no, no, she's good this cow. Yeah. So they're like, all right. This is a little odd. Maybe he's involved. Can I can I paint the scene a little bit though? I wanna go back over and highlight two things that you've mentioned so far jer one. This is the time where to cover up a crime all you had to do was remove the license plates on the car, you ditched that was it. You just confounded the cops forever. Well it helped. And then Secondly, if you were to be deported. All you had to do is not show up, and then call them the next day and say your wife was sick. And and immigration and naturalization would say sure, no problem. We'll know they they investigated immediately. Okay. But I'm just saying like, this is things have changed is what I'm trying to say. And let me let me see trust me trying to transcendent. Yeah. I'm trying to. Yes. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. It's weird because he looked on both of your shoulders at the devil and the angel. They won't shut up. Chuck. So they they summarize, you know, it's all coming together. This guy's acting weird. He's sixteenth. He's also took one of those people that they liked for that that robbery than the year before which is one of the reasons why they they had their intent about this guy in the first place. Right. So he's a suspect. The cops go to specifically Michael Stuart police chief said I'm gonna go back to his house. I'm gonna see what else I can find out from this guy. He shows up and there's a dude there named Mike Boda who says sure you can look around. You can look in the house go back and look in the garage, two car garage shed, no problem, usually have my car there. It's an overland, but it's in the shop getting repaired and Stewart goes out there. And it's like all right. So here's where the overland parks, but there's some really big tire tracks next to the overland and the second stall, then look like they would probably fit this large Buick. That was so mysteriously kind of tooling around around the time in this murder. Right. And this cop Stewart goes I'm gonna make a mental note of that. And that's what he did. He he asked about the the the other car. I don't know if you said Bota said that his other car was at the garage being repaired. Correct. So so Stewart the who's the police chief of Bridgewater. I think I get the impression that was kind of new. There was another kind of factors into this case tangentially later on who is the former police chief. So I get the impression that Michael Stewart was fairly new, but he's investigating this case. He likes coachee. He's now met Mike Boda who is suspicious of two. He goes back to talk to bow to some more to this place where coachee lived as BOTAS roommate. I guess away from his wife and kids. I'm not sure why Koichi was renting this place we coaching now. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I took Italian in college. And I'm almost one hundred percent. Sure. Coachee? Okay. Do you remember from our dyslexia episode where talian is extremely easy to learn because there's just very few ways to to write things to write the phonemes one of the reasons that is easy. Because it's kind of like polish. It's most most cases it's actually easier than post, but it's pronounced just like it's spelled except for the CIA is a sound. Okay. So Coa Chee. Watchi-? Okay. Okay. All right. That was your Italian lesson. Appreciate that. After all these years. The other not all Italians or talian Americans are mobsters that your lesson. Okay. So I've known a bunch of. Telling Americans, and none of them were monsters. Bam. There you go. So police chief Stewart goes back to talk to Boda and things get really suspicious too. Don't they because he shows up and knocks on the door the doors swings open undoing empty apartment. And Stewart spends about fifteen minutes going Bota, Mr. voter. Hello, Mr. Mona. And he finally takes a couple steps in and realizes BOTAS gone. That's right. So he he goes by the garage where he the guy said that his car was in the shop goes over there, the car still there so that checked out and he told the owner whose name was Simon Johnson. He said, hey, if anyone comes to get this car just give us a call. And the guy says mental note call cops if someone comes to get this guy, Jeremy Renner so on may fifth. This is what a couple of weeks later a man comes to the door. And this is a believe this is it says nine o'clock, but that's at night. Right. Yeah. The I couldn't tell it first and then feels like night. Yeah. It says also that the the wife is is illuminated by a motorcycle headlight guess at night. Yeah. All right. So it's unless it's very dark in the morning, right? So nine o'clock at night. This guy shows up to the owners of the garage door knocks on the door his young wife answers. The guy says that he's Mike Boda. I'm here to pick up my car. That overland over there. And the owner of the garage comes and tells his wife, he says he'll call the police, you know, we don't have a phone go next door. Call the cops she leaves out the back door and his caught. Like, you said there's this motorcycle sitting outside. She also sees with the sidecar. Also sees a couple of guys that she said, we're speaking talion kind of hanging around. So it's all sort of adding up at this point to something fishy. Yes. So I guess the fact that that Simon Johnson the the shopowner mechanic was stalling made Bota little uneasy. Sure. So he took off without the car, right? Yeah. He jumped in the sidecar was out of there. Okay. Here's where things get super critical for a pair of guys named Sacco invented. He there were two other those two other guys that Ruth Johnson. Simon Johnson the mechanics wife said she saw. Hanging out waiting for Mike voted to get his car. They split to now they're suddenly like on foot. There's no motorcycle or car for them. So they have to leave on foot. So they walk over toward the direction of the Bridgewater rail line. Yeah. And she says that she saw them get on the train or at least go toward the train station or no the railcar. So I think it might have been like a streetcar kind of thing. Yeah. So somehow chief Stewart gets word of this. I think he shows up he gets word of this. And he calls a the the police chief in the next town over in Brockton and says, hey, there's gonna be a pair of Italian guys on the street car when the when the when the streetcar stops in the railcar stops in your town, get them they are wanted for questioning in a murder robbery. And so the Brockton police board the train when it arrives in Brockton. And there are two talion sitting there and the two men's name. Were nNcholas SoKo and Bartolomeo vans. Eddie, and they just happened to be a talian, and they just happened to be anarchists. And they both happened to be strapped when the cops came on the real car and started asking them questions. Yes. Co had a thirty two Colt in van city had a thirty eight Harrington and Richardson, which very uniquely had five chambers instead of six it's very unusual seems unique. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even know how that works out have to see this kind of revolver because sex is a nice even number for around thing. I don't I don't get it. But whenever says like don't point that five shooter at me toys, six shooter. You know? Yeah. That's weird. Maybe maybe five shooters whether when they call it a pea shooter. Now, let's know what they mean. But it was the nineteen twenties in there were all kinds of weird guns back, then right? Okay. So these these two Italian immigrants who were anarchists and who were carrying guns had one other big problem. They were giving some pretty weak and ever-evolving stories in answer to the questions that the cops were asking them. They get hauled into the police station. I believe in Bridgewater or Braintree. Do you know which one it was? I think it was. I think it was Braintree. Actually, they got taken to Braintree because it was Stuart who is investigating him. So they get taken a Braintree and police chief Stewart questions, but then so too does the the chief prosecutor for the area a guy named Frederick Katzman who would play an enormous role in this case as well. Yes. So he was the DA, and he the I think the key. That really sold him was he found out that on April fifteenth on the day of these murders Sokha was not at work at the three case you factory, right? And he said, you know, what that's enough for me. We have no real evidence or anything else. But you are a talian Italian American anarchists. You weren't at work that day. So let's go ahead and hall you in here, right because. Yeah, we left off the fact that they found like anarchist pamphlets. I'm on the men when they when they took him off the train. So there was a lot against them going against them at this point just from the outside of this. But you kind of touched on it all of this is very very circumstantial. Yes. A right away. The anarchists of of the area come on board. They form the Sacco Vince city defense committee and one of their leaders, one of the enterprise leaders in the area named Carlos. Esca said all right. Let's hire this this lawyer from California this guy's a radical. He's gonna lead our defense and more comes on board. Fred morons, like, here's the way, we're gonna do this. Let's like let's get everyone worked up like not only in this area. But all over the world, let's get radicals. And let's get anarchists. And let's get union members paint. These guys is just like hard-working blue-collar union dudes, and let's get people all over the world paying attention to what's going on over here. Yes. Which is a very common tactic still in use today. Just turn public sentiment against the government. And the prosecutors in their case, and basically paint it like Sako infants anywhere. You're just a couple of normal dudes who are being railroaded for for political reasons in probably out of a certain amount of xenophobia as well. Sure. So let's take a break. The trial opens in may of nineteen. Twenty-one with judge Webster Thayer in. We'll be back with what happens next right after this. Let's consider the secret life of the IMO nesting doll living, most of her life in the dock inside the other nesting Dole's. She has plenty of time to think if we could sadly, she has no brain, however, when in a most nesting, dull his gyco, not only saves people money, but also has been providing great service over seventy five years. She thinks it's obvious. You should switch because. Yes. Switching to Geico is a no brainer. Pitchy INA most nesting Dollond her lot in life. Check before we get back into. I wanna give a shout out to Doug Linder, Douglas Lindor who's a law professor and historian who wrote a paper that we used as a source that was pretty pretty handy. Pretty good stuff. Yeah. Law professors. I mean, there's a lot of good information out here on this. But you get a law professor on on the typewriter, and they're gonna condense it into a nice, readable workable document. That's right to very good at that. Yes. So all right trials underway. Like, I said before judge Webster their proceeds over this trial Katzman, that's the DA that's prosecuting. He is got a lot of circumstantial evidence he has eye-witnesses. But not really a lot of hard evidence going on, right? It's a little bit tough case for him to like solidly prove. Yeah. And that was another reason why Fred Moore was able to run around. Drumming up public sentiment. Not just in the United States or even just Boston or Massachusetts. But around the world that that that SoKo invents Eddie were being railroaded. Is that the evidence against them was really really weak. The eyewitness testimony was super if you if you had the luxury like historians like Douglas Linder had to compare, you know, the original notes. The original statements made by witnesses against the types of statements. They made in court the statements they made in court were much more certain much more. Sure. And this is after a year of reading the newspaper and being exposed to pictures of SoKo in vans. Eddie, so when they see SoKo invented in the courtroom. They're like, yes, I saw that man holding that gun, and he was the one that pulled the trigger. The thing is there was not one witness there. Witnesses who placed both of them. The crime scene or at least in the Buick around town on that day. But there was not one single witness who plays both of them there. That's just the eye witnesses. They also had the other big piece of circumstantial evidence where the guns that they were found with and they use ballistic experts to come in and say, yes, this bullet came from this gun, but again looking at it with history, the high the benefit of history. This was at a time when when ballistics comparison was just beginning to come around, and the people that they employed as ballistics experts were self taught amateurs who just basically had an interest in this field where in no way, shape or form, genuine experts because you could make a case. There was no such thing as a genuine ballistics comparison expert at the time it was two new as far as for insecure is on the defense side immediately. They say those guys weren't even in Braintree Sokha was in Boston. Then said he was in Plymouth, the both both sides. It's interesting to look back on this trial because both the prosecution and the defense where like being very Hanky with the truth themselves influencing people on both sides to testify kind of behind the scenes Fred more of the defense. Attorney trotted out a bunch of witnesses that say no like vans that he was definitely in Plymouth. He's a fishmonger but fish from him. And then later on it was found out that some of these people will all of them, basically were friends of his and then some of the people came out even later and said, yeah, he kind of told me to say this. But that happened on the prosecution side too. Yes. Opposes the later on they would allege that the prosecutor Katzman and the chief or the lead ballistics are the star ballistics witness head kind of coordinated the answer that the ballistics witness would give at trial, and that it would be much more stronger and much much more certain than he than actual conclusion. He came to prior to the trial based on his original ballistics tests. Yes. So there's there's heinous on both sides Katzman has his hat. Remember one of the gunman definitely had on a gray cap. So he has this great cap. He said this is sock owes. He gets together with an expert behind the scenes and says again with this like like, you were saying sort of the beginnings of not ballistics in this case. But just forensics any kind of friends ex. Yeah, they he looked at the hairs in the hat. Gotta. Hair from SoKo and psychos like ow that hurt and he compared them, and he said, yeah, these hairs are identical telling you they're the same hairs, but cats was like, you know, what I don't want to go to court and present this because the stuff is all new they're going to paint you as reliable because no one knows anything about hair comparison yet. So instead of doing that he goes to the boss of the shoe factory. George Kelly was like have you seen this hat before? And Kelly said, yes, that's Soko's. Had I've seen him where that hat and the whole in. It is from the nail that he hangs it on every day. When in fact, that was definitely not the case. No earlier that previous pre police chief later testified that he had accidents punched the hole in the hat while he was examining it for any kind of identifying marks. Which is we'd he also testified that the hat had a very questionable providence that it had. Come into police custody for thirty hours a crime. So he couldn't say he is far as he knew it was not found at the crime scene that it hadn't been secured by the police. He didn't know exactly where it came from. And then Finally I read elsewhere in a final twist in some if the sounds familiar, but they asked Sako to put the hat on in court, and it was too small for his head. It didn't fit. You must acquit. They did not acquit though. Just ruined it. I'll I'm sorry. That's sorry, everybody. It's funny. There's probably a lot of people out there who have no idea how this is gonna turn out. If you search on Google just SoKo invents, Eddie one of the suggested questions is what is Succo in vans. Eighty. Not who what? It's a nice upper teeth. Right. So. I don't know if we mentioned, but like Sako had definitely much more evidence against him. Even if it was circumstance, then Vince Eddie did eye witnesses. Yeah. For sure so vans. Eddie is has the thinnest case against him? But he like he lied to the cops. He had that gun. Remember and on the stand. He said, yeah. Actually, I got that gun just a few days ago bought it for four five bucks. And they're like, well, you told us that you bought a four or five years ago for eighteen dollars. Right. You said there were six chambers in it and only had five and what's going on here. You're lying Jimmy vans. Eddie, the whole thing with the gun. I don't know if we've said or not yet. The reason why the gun was suspicious was basically like these central piece of evidence used against vans. Eddie is that it was supposedly the exact same kind of gun that L Zondo Berra deli had on him when he. He was killed. Yeah. So the the whole the whole idea was that vans. Eddie had been at the at least at the crime scene, if not one of the killers who had taken Barra del gun after he had killed him and made off with it. Which would explain why he wasn't very familiar with the gun, and how many chambers that had and didn't have a very solid story about where he gotten in how long he'd owned it to that was the implication of the whole thing. And that was basically the that was it that was the crux of the prosecution's case against fans. Eddie, Fens Eddie's. Big problem was he was sitting next to SoKo when Sako got taken off the train, and they had a lot more SoKo and they were tried together rather than separately. Yeah. In SoKo that ballistics evidence made a big difference in the trial because they found out for sure that that bullet that killed VERA deli was definitely fired from Colt automatic and your Colt automatic is what they alleged right and. Well, we'll hold onto that last bit to later, but about what was found out later about that. But it I think even some of the jurors said that that was really some of the most compelling evidence against SoKo for us in deciding this case again, like they're listening to forensic evidence from field that's still in the very in its cradle. From testimony given by people who are not experts. But that was like you said, the jurors said this was that was it for me that was what convinced me was the ballistics evidence, basically. So the go to jury and they go to deliberations and just five in house five and a half hours later. The jury said guilty as charged about six weeks after the trial started. I believe. Yeah. So it was a big deal. You know, like Soko's crying out I'm innocent and talion in the court there were like protests all over the world like South America, France Lisbon. It's just crazy. How much this at the time in the nineteen twenties became an international thing. And basically they were dude for the electric chair. So people all over the world were protesting that were bombings. It was nuts. Yeah. This is. I mean, this is a time when. Labor was unionized. So you could arouse the sympathy of a lot of people at once by going to the union hall and saying, hey, your your brothers in arms over there in America are being railroaded into a murderer. They're going to be electrocuted in the electric chair for something. They didn't commit simply because of their political beliefs. How messed up is that and they you could arouse some some people pretty quickly back then by saying that as opposed to today. Yeah. For sure more immediately starts the defense. Attorney immediately starts filing motions trying to get like new trials that was he had an assistant named Eugene Lyons. Who later would come out and say man, like this guy, basically would do anything he was framing evidence. He was telling witnesses what to say like once he had up in his mind that and keep in mind. This was like a radical lawyer from California he said once he had in mind that these guys. Were innocent. He's like he he basically would do anything to try and get them off. They'd suborn perjury. He intimidate witnesses. They do whatever if he thought that somebody was being innocently prosecuted. Fred Moore would stop at nothing to so. Yeah. To get them off and this article, I think kind of paints a incomplete picture of Eugene Lyons. Fred Moore's relationship like you. Gene. Lyons is also very much admire of more to like he considered more to have the heart of an artist. But he was he had dedicated his life to getting people who are being steamrolled by the system or unfairly treated by the courts out from under these these charges. He was a he was a an early civil livered civil liberties lawyer, basically is what he was. Yes, none of these motions work. He files a bunch of them. We're not gonna detail them all, but none of them. None of them worked. They were basically all turned down there. There was still the presiding judge. He was turning down all these things then they went to like federal court. They were turning down motions. Eventually they went to the supreme court. And the supreme court was like why you asking us about this. This is a state case. Like, we don't even do this kind of thing. Yeah. The the court at the time was very much against or the majority. I should say it was against applying the confidential constitution to state issues. So they wouldn't get involved. But I mean, it did go all the way to at least petitioning the supreme court. They wouldn't hear it, and they wouldn't stay the execution either. But he as much as a lawyer can exhaust petitions in appeals for clemency and stay of execution. Fred Moore did and then later on another defense lawyer William Thompson, you took over for Fred more after Socco fired. Fred more did the same thing like up to the eve the eve. Eva the execution. They were relentless in filing appeals with anything anything. They could get their hands on. They filed an entire motion for a new trial based strictly on judge fares perceive prejudice against anarchists. Apparently, he did not like enter kissed and he treated SoKo and Vince Eddie is such throughout the trial. And as you're if you're just watching watching this from the outside, if you're reading about this in the press, and you're already on soccer in Vince at his side, judge they are turning down motion after motion after motion after motion looks really bad. It looks very much like this judge is bent on railroading these two immigrant enter kissed into in an early and unjust death by electric chair. So the the public's sympathies were aroused even further for SoKo events that he and that would last for decades after this trial. Up century almost now. Yes, so sock goes in jail in another weird thing happens while he's in jail in Dedham D H AM, though is another prisoner there who passed a note on and said, basically, I'm confessing to this crime. My name is Celestino Medeiros. And they were like all right. Well, let's let's talk to this guy. He's confessing to this crime in saying that SoKo in Vince Eddie are innocent. He said I was there. I was with four other guys. So that kind of checks out for the the five Italians. He said we met in providence at a bar, and we'd just come came up with this plan. He said got any Mike again Bill. I don't know the other guys. I was scared. We switched cars in the woods. Like, all the stuff was sort of making sense. But it really didn't like in the end. There were too many other things that were wrong. Like he said that they didn't get there till afternoon. And everyone was like no that car was there like maybe between nine AM and noon. He also said that the payroll money was in a bag when it was in a metal box. And so there were enough inconsistencies, basically where he wasn't really a major suspect like they considered it Thompson tried to use it as the basis for a new trial. But none of this worked because there was still kinda calling the shots this before they ran it up the flagpole. Yeah. But again news made made its way out into the international press that someone had confessed in not only confessed said that soccer and vans. Eddie weren't there? And this this judge who headed out for SoKo invented he refused to even hear this motion to to have a new trial. So it looked ill look bad as well to it did. So it looks mad enough that the governor at the time Alvin fuller said you know, what we have to do something. Here. There's just too much public pressure going on from around the world. He said, so here's what we'll do. We'll get a three person advisory committee. They're going to investigate this. He said, hey, you Lawrence Lowell. You're the president of Harvard. You had this thing up, and then what was known as the Lowell commission finally issued a report which said, basically beyond a reasonable doubt SoKo is guilty and invents Eddie said on the whole, it's our opinion that he's also guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Right. Everyone was like, well, why did you sail? Those other words, then and they're like what are their words? Yeah. Really kind of a strange final report. What's funny is in the Boston area there like we need? Somebody smart. Get me, the president of Harvard will yet in the end, he's like, you are definitely guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And so are you more or less as in our opinion right now? I know we are it remains weird. But apparently years later when low was asked about that he was saying like, no that wasn't any indication that we thought vans at he had any kind of any kind of innocence to him or that he wasn't guilty. I I'm not sure exactly how he explained it. But he basically said no that wasn't. That's not what that was interesting. I don't know what he thought it was that was a weird way to put it. But that was I think the other thing that kind of arouses people's interest in that or suspicion. Maybe even is that that's what a lot of people think that Sokha was definitely guilty. Yeah. I shouldn't say a lot. But some people that SoKo is. Definitely guilty. And if anyone was innocent it was vans. Eddie, so the idea that this low commission came up with this back in the twenties, even is significant. But yeah, low was like, no that's not what we meant by that. So none of these stays of execution go through. So they're reunited they were split up in jail for many many years six years, and then they were finally reunited at Charlestown state prison for execution in April. And they had like, you wouldn't believe how many cops they have in this town to cover this thing because it was sort of one of the first crimes of the century. I think and people were mad all over the country all over the world like we've been talking about. They didn't know if they're going to be more bombings people were gonna like literally storm the prison and trying to overtake them and free them. So they had tons and tons of cops everywhere SoKo is first to go. And as they are. Strapping him in he's crying out in talian, long, live anarchy. And then in English very quietly says, farewell, my wife and child and all my friends and right when they finally threw the switch he screamed out, mama. And I don't think like that. No, no. I'm not making light of it. I don't think he was like, whoa, mama. No. I don't think. So either I think he was calling for his mother. Yes. Just pretty sad. Also, kinda sweet. Yes. And then vans Eddie comes in. And he's like, oh, it's my turn. All right. Well, okay. Want to make sure everybody knows that. I am innocent. So I think it's significant that Sokha was the win that shouted in the courtroom that he was innocent. But didn't during his execution. Yeah. Vans. Any didn't say anything the courtroom, but during execution like I'm innocent. Not only that he really turned the screwdriver. He said I want to make it known that I forgive all of you who are about to do this to me, and he started crying. Well, the warden started crying when he gave the the switch gave the nod to turn to throw the switch on the electric chair and kill vins. Eddie, tears, flowing everywhere. High-drama? Yes, surpri, there's movie surely it has been, but oh, but it wasn't like the seventies or something. And we just aren't aware of it, Warren Beatty. Played SoKo and wtn's Eddie and some weird casting somehow Jeremy Renner played all the cops. He right, exactly. So SoKo invinci- you're dead like they're dead the state took their lives. They execute. It'd them. These conceivably innocent men who were braille road to the electric chair on circumstantial evidence, and the testimony of some ballistic experts who are not experts by anyone's measure, these men are now dead and the world reacts predictably there were riots. Six people died in a ride in Germany, the the American embassy in Paris had already been bombed. So they they brought tanks out on the night of the execution and surrounded it this time there were no bombings, there were riots in Geneva, Switzerland. This may have been the only time anyone ever rided in Geneva, Switzerland there like five thousand portraits protesters who destroyed everything that was even passing Lee American and SoKo Vince any win into the history books is a couple of innocent men who were executed wrongfully by the state because of their political beliefs. They were. Political prisoners were executed for their beliefs. Basically is how most people have come to see Sacco invented yet. But many years later a couple of a few notable things happened in nineteen forty one that gentlemen, I mentioned earlier the car Carla Tresco they enter kiss leader couple years four. He died in the nineteen forties. Basically said, you know, what Sokha was guilty. He was the trigger man. But Vince Eddie was not guilty. Other people had heard the same thing from Triska, and then in nineteen sixty one they had actual ballistics tests done, and it was concluded that that was in fact, a bullet from sacco's gun, but people were still were saying, no, you know, what I think that bullet was planted. So we render that inconclusive. But I think Doug Linder does a pretty good job of of taking the planet. Bullet theory. Fatal bullet or bullet. Number three is what it's called in the trial in in basically saying though, this is why that doesn't really hold up and probably the biggest one is win. Those ballistics witnesses gave their testimony both of the prosecution's star ballistic. Witnesses said, yes, I would conclude probably the came out of this gun or yes, it's probable or possible or something like that. They catch their expert opinions when they gave their testimony, and if they were part of a conspiracy to frame SoKo in the planting of this bullet, they would have given much more forceful testimony, which in and of itself as a circumstance evidence against this planted bullet theory, but it draws so closely uncommon sense that I think it makes sense to me undermines the idea that the bullet was planted. Yeah. There was another gentleman. Name Giovanni camera. Who said, you know, what my dad? Before he died in nineteen eighty-two. He told me he was on this team of anarchist met after their arrests to get their defense mounted. And he told me and everyone to basically that Sokha was guilty invincib-. He was innocent. And then weirdly in two thousand five Upton Sinclair, the very famous author said that he was researching a book, and he was going to write it. He was writing a book about this whole thing. And he met with read more that the radical defense attorney that mounted the defense for basically most of the case, and he said he met with him in a hotel room. Like, dude gimme the real story. And he said that Moore told him. Yes, Sokha was guilty. And van said he was innocent. And I basically came up with this whole defense on my own like made all the stuff up. Yeah. Yeah. Years later, it came out that the seven eye witnesses for the. Defense who said that they saw. Soko eating lunch in Boston. At the time of the robbery in Braintree had all been set up by the the defense, or at least by an anarchist group had who had asked them to go perjure themselves. And yeah, I think they kind of jives with the gene Lyons quote that like if he thought these guys were innocent, they would do he would do anything to get them off, including you know, putting witnesses on the stand knowing that they were going to lie and telling them to lie, and this was a letter from Upton Sinclair based on an interview with Fred more. So it's has has a lot of teeth. But the the the thing there was another letter from up since and clear another quote from Upton Sinclair where he said that Fred Moore had confessed to him that vans. Eddie was innocent any new was innocent. But he was pretty sure Succo wasn't. But all he had to do was go to the the jury and say. Hey, you we all know that you don't have anything on venza, Eddie. There's no reason for you to to to prosecute this, man. But he knew that if he did that the jury would be like, well, you're probably right. But we're gonna come down really hard on SoKo. So he had this dilemma, and he took it to to van's eighty. He said and vans. Eddie said, you know, what try to save? Nick, nNcholas SoKo. He has the wife. He has the child. I don't try to get him off so vans. Eddie in this retelling by Fred Moore, gave his life on the chance that that Fred more could get SoKo off. Because if he got suck off give study off if he got vans Eddy off, he would almost surely sink SoKo invented. He wouldn't take the take the opportunity to to to be acquitted at the expense of soccer, which is pretty amazing amazing. Yep. So that's Succo invinci- everybody. That's what a sock going vans that he is. Now, you know, I guess when guilty and one innocent sort it sounds like it sounds like few wino- more about SoKo and Vincent he go look up. Doug linder? I believe he has a whole site on true crime. And there's plenty of other stuff out there that we found to on the internet about Sacco invinci- at and they're famous trial. And since I said SoKo invents any like eight times, it's time for listener mail. Let me call. This response to short stuff. Yeah. Right. Hey, guys shows one of my favorite podcasts much. So that I've taken to listening to it while I get ready for work. We know that as your sacred time Nadine, I just finished up sewed on black loyalists and immediately started, right? The email. I'm a Rhode islander in Nova Scotia for work and got so excited to hear a little piece of Nova Scotia history on there, I looked into the loyal loyalist heritage museum, but it only has weekday operation. So I don't think I'll be able to make it. They're definitely do some exploring Halifax in the coming weeks, and we'll be on the lookout for more information. Just wanted to mention on the show that it was Josh said that Rhode Island may not have ever had slaves. Actually, we were the first state to abolish slavery and sixteen fifty two, but the law was mostly ignored. And we ended up with the most slaves per capita of any Connie. I did not know that we also had a pretty booming slave trade in Newport, Rhode Island now known for their gilded aged splendor the piece of Rhode Island history. I'm sure most don't learn in history class that wanted to shed light on I thanks. We're always putting out a funny and informative and entertaining show that is from Nadine. Agreed. Thanks a lot in eighteen that was great. Thanks for listening. While you get ready for work. Hope works going well up there in Nova Scotia just think spring to you end everybody up there in Nova Scotia. Frankly, if you wanna get in touch with us, you can join us on stuff, you should know dot com. Check out our social links there end, you can just send us a good old fashioned Email wrap it up spank it on the bottom and send it off to stuff podcasts and how stuff works com. For more on this and thousands of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. Serial killers. Don't make any effort to involve media or estimators. They're very secretive. They don't want to tension. They almost want their crimes to go unnoticed, but the idea of committing a crime, and then calling the police and bragging about it. That's a whole 'nother level of terror. A man who wore a mediaeval style executioner's hood, please and baffled. The media seems to crave publicity, letters and cryptograms newspapers and police subject stated I to report a murder. No, a double murder. I did it. Here. We are fifty years to the first sodium killing in today's world of friends old cases are being solved who doesn't wanna know. How it turns out from the creators of Atlanta monster come season two. This is monster zodiac killer. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app.

Vince Eddie SoKo Braintree robbery Boston Soko Fred Moore United States Boston Charles w Chuck Bryant Buick Mike Boda Jeremy Renner Sacco Sokha Frederick Katzman Slater Merill murder Michael Stewart
Ep. 4: Cloaca Kisses, Blue Cats and Beavers

Cal's Week in Review

21:09 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 4: Cloaca Kisses, Blue Cats and Beavers

"For meters world news headquarters in bozeman, Montana. This is CAL's. We can review with Ryan cow Kellyanne. Now here's Cal this week Turkey season ended here meter headquarters in the state of Montana. So all my Turkey fats are over after this little tidbit. That is, you should know that Benjamin Franklin spoke more highly of the wild Turkey than our national bird. The bald eagle bald eagle was a bad moral character and Arinc coward, while the wild Turkey was a little vain and silly, but at least courageous so keep that in mind this to turkeys have khloe could referred to as a union hole, or a one. Hold does all situation. The clue ak- is defined as a common cavity at the end of the digestive tract for the release of both extra Tori and genital products. As in. The khloe is the only hole for the digestive reproductive and urinary tracts. You know, you can actually tell a Turkey sex. It's poop, this has do with this shape of Turkey's khloe, the male has sort of pecker like structure, which causes a constriction in its khloe. So the poop passes through a narrow channel which leaves, it's dropping slender ical with a little J hook on the end. There's more of a cavity in the female's glow ak- to accommodate eggs, which butts, the poop spread out. And former coil blob some folks will give a different theory on this, which is that a hand can hold her poop. But a male can't. She does this. So as not to defile her nest site, somehow, it's thought that holding poop makes it change shape and him not holding produces the J personally, I'm gonna go with the shape of the khloe explanation. Now that we covered, how things go out of Turkey's. What about things going in? Well, I'll tell you from the outside. It does appear both the male and female have basically the same part. They don't obviously when it's time to get down to business, the Burs lineup and touch their respective khloe together. The male sperm is injected in the female, typically in less than ten seconds of copulation, this act, not limited to just Hercules, the, you know, the touching of the khloe, not the ten seconds of copulation is not limited to just turkeys. Anyway, this at not limited to just turkeys is known as Chloe Coyle kiss. Moving on this week. We've got cat rush two thousand nineteen white tailed, deer news from Florida beavers, flesh-eating bacteria, and we'll get in a whole lot more. But I I'm going to tell you about my week fell by the name of CJ wrote in and asked me. So Cal is it bad to remove shed Antlers from the woods, don't the squirrels, and small critters at two on them? Get nutritional benefit doing know how necessary that resources for them was the impact or removing all those shed Antlers on smaller critters roaming around the woods, gray question. Well, here's what I found out. It seems that there's no doubt that shed Antlers of all types if left long enough are eventually eaten or distributed back into the soil by natural degradation. Calcium and phosphorus make up the bulk of the minerals and deer Antlers comprising thirty thirty five percent of the mature, antler by weight essay mature, antler because. This is like when the Amer is hard horned versus in velvet. It's done growing had clear that up. In addition to calcium and phosphorus at university of Georgia study detected nine more minerals in white tail Antlers, the next most common elements were magnesium and sodium. Then potassium barium hiring aluminum zinc, strontium and manganese studies on white tail specifically suggests that deer show clear need for sodium Southie. But they don't demonstrate clear need for mineral deposits that lack sodium, these studies this evidence would suggest that picking up Antlers won't necessarily impact. Dear as for the other critters those studies, I found now for my anecdotal evidence, I have areas where I shed hunt and have shed on it for years, where regardless of the time of year. It is rare to find a bite Mark on an antler. No bite Marsh from deer porcupines squirrels, or otherwise in other areas, if you weren't picking up antler as close to the time, they dropped as possible is more than likely that the shed you pick up, we'll have been chewed on to some degree, or pretty much eaten up entirely this evidence. Although, again, anecdotal would suggest that the shed antler and the mineral within has more value to wildlife in some areas than in others, you could extrapolate that out and come to the conclusion that if the mineral and the Antlers valuable than mineral could be lacking from the soil and general area. So the return of that mineral to the soil is of high value as well. Just think on as I have not found any studies specific to this question floating around out there, just yet. I find it nearly impossible to not strap shed, antler on my pack when I come. Cross it at the same time I do find it hard to imagine that mother, nature would be cool with me hauling away. All of these admittedly preposterous ornaments than animals, grow on top of their heads in order to someday. Maybe tournament to chandelier. Now got a little housekeeping take care of for move on in episode one of gals week in review, titled murderous birds, wildlife bridges, and the year, the cat, I screwed up, which is embarrassing. What happened is that I credited defenders of wildlife for leading the ridiculous unnecessary push to end all forms of cat hunting. In British Colombia, I should have said the wildlife defense league who is in fact, the guilty party sincerest apologies to defenders of wildlife. That's it for my we. Let's move onto this week starting off with some quick hitters. Then we'll tackle a couple of bigger topics, six national parks, in the DC area have provided more than nineteen thousand pounds of white tail deer meat or roughly seventy five thousand meals to local nonprofit whitetail deer population, there, booming and the deer tend to thrive in the kind of habitat. These parks, many richer civil war battlefields. Provide the parks, managing the deer herds to protect and restore native plants in some cases reports indicate that the deer so prolific, they have eaten nearly all treed seedlings, preventing the forest from being able to regenerate in the parks where the deer management or culling has occurred, such as Kentucky and mountain park and Maryland. They've seen almost an eleven fold increase in tree, and Trump density since we're on white tail the state of Remond has just recorded its oldest known hunter killed whitetail Vermont hunters were asked to turn in a tooth from harvest dear last season. There's also are in three thousand nine hundred and fourteen hunters turned in teeth during Vermont's two thousand eighteen season. Oldest buck was twelve years old, which is very impressive. The oldest dough taken by youth hundred from Braintree came in at an astounding twenty years old, this ties the record for the oldest known beer in Vermont hundred killed or. Or not, which was a twenty year old deer that got hit by a car. The next time you hear some old timer talked about the good old days, a white tail deer hunting politely. Remind him that those good old days are happening right now. If you wanna know exactly, how things are go to the meter dot com, where very own Spencer, Neuharth has an article called two thousand eighteen the year of record breaking bucks. I'll take just a quick second here to talk about another character over here at meter that's been O'Brien Begnaud. Brian moved from dripping springs, Texas. In order to work for meat eater. Now, what's interesting about dripping springs, Texas is it was founded by guy with the last name of pound. There is currently a movement to rename dripping springs to pound town. I'm no. How far they're going to get with that one moving on. Also in two thousand eighteen Florida wildlife. Conservation officers were notified of five feet twenty pound lizard in the key Largo area. They've been on the hunt for that lizard, ever since turns out that it was an Asian water monitor which proved to be a very difficult critter to catch ultimately, though it was caught by using a combination of motion sensor cameras in live traps, the Asian water monitor which is native to south and southeast Asia is the second heaviest lizard species behind the Komodo, dragon B's opportunistic eaters have wide diets that can include everything from molluscs mice and turtles birds. They've been known to grow over nine and a half feet long hit one hundred and fifty pounds. Now in order to get that big NAFTA. He'll and awesome a lizard, the size of this one in Florida probably eats three to five times a week. So that's a minimum of one hundred fifty six. Birds or reptiles or mammals that this escaped pet consumed during its year long key Largo vacation. It's good for the local hell life, that didn't encounter in Asian water, monitor of the opposite sex, turn that little bake into a romantic honeymoon for now. Florida's rid of at least one singular invasive species. Elsewhere in Florida man stabbed himself at the fishing hook while fishing and almost lost his arm when the Pinellas county angler made it back to shore from fishing excursion, his hook, wounded hand got all swollen painful recognizing. This is a strange reaction to a common fishing injury are anger sought medical attention. In the hand was treated with antibiotics. The following morning Nang were found black blisters had formed around his wound up his arm infectious disease. Doctors from burn unit rail. The diagnose the symptoms. Necrotizing fasciitis strain of rare flesh eating bacteria surgeons were consider. 'ring amputating, angers arm until they eventually curbed the infection just a month before the fishhook incident and high. Oh, man was Bakke shinning in Florida and did a bit of kayaking outside of Tampa Bay on his flight home. What he thought was a sunburn on his leg swelled concerning levels upon landing. Dr spent eleven days, working hard to avoid amputating that limb. It was the same thing. Flesh-eating bacteria between two thousand six and two thousand eighteen the Florida Department of health has documented three hundred and forty nine cases of people who've contracted a form flesh eating bacteria, such as vitriol, Boniface, or necrotizing fasciitis, ninety nine of these cases resulted in death. The Florida man with the sore hand wasn't the only way to get beat up. Another Florida angler in Wesley chapel got whooped by girlfriend, early and argument over proper childcare and it with three. Known kitchen pot to the head of the anger, ma'am. Who had spent quote the last couple of days fishing, instead of performing fatherly duties, the girlfriend is charged with domestic battery if the I had half a brand than a bit of a conscience, he'd take his kid fishing. His girlfriend would thank him. Instead, a woman with pot and now being charged with domestic battery north of here, over in Greene County, Georgia couple of fishing, under the twenty bridge on lake. Oh, Coney Bolden. A satchel containing two guns and some jewelry due to engraving on one of the pieces of jewelry. Investigators Ray will the track down the former owner son in Auburn Alabama who confirmed the items were stolen from his father back in nineteen Ninety-three. I like stories like that. Think it's neat to get a surprise on the end of your line every once in a while, and who doesn't get their long lost stuff back couple of interesting things have been documented regarding tool use and other species. I'm transitioning here from stuff underneath. Bridge, two things that I think are needed, which are animals using tools anyway, couple interesting things have been documented regarding to use, and other species late last year, and guys trail, Cam, a stripe skunk, using a rock to break through a layer of ice on top of a water bowl set out for doc, the skunk picked up rock between its front paws, and proceeded to procure, it self drink, that's tool use, and just recently, scientists from the university of Akron observed the triangle weavers spider using its web, which it unsurprisingly weaves into a triangle, the triangle Weaver, spider halls online of web attached to the point of the triangle until it. Stretched talk like a bow when potential prey passes by the spider releases the stored tension in the web catapulting the web, and it self onto its victim. Another example of tool use from the animal world. I bring this up because we're always pointing out examples of animals being like us or not, like us, some people love stories that make animals seem more human. Like by using tools, for instance, others, would prefer that we keep our corner on the tool use market on top of that. We have a sort of prejudice about which be she's we celebrate a chimpanzee uses a tool. Everyone gets all excited. Some skunk or spider uses a tool. Nobody really talks about come on people now from our fishing records desks, I feel without doing too much digging that when it comes to record books. Folks are more inclined to get into trouble for stretching the truth in the fishing categories. Something of this nature, just recently came to light and South Dakota, though it could be categorized, as an honest mistake, what happened is that South Dakota, just voided its longest spanning fish record that of a channel catfish wings, fifty five pounds, which is big ass channel cat. The fish was caught by game ROY groves to give you an idea of just how big of a channel cat. This would have been this fifty five Pounder was also the world record channel cap for fifteen years until South Carolina anger broke that record back in nineteen sixty four oddly enough. The South Carolina anger was fishing in a lake famous for big blue cats. That'll come in later. Why would South Dakota declare such a long standing record null and void after all these years? I'll tell you what unluckily for ROY. There's photographic evidence of his catch and over the years, whenever catfish aficionados have looked upon this yellowing photograph. They often comment on that being a nice blue catfish. Instead of channel catfish. That's right. It was somehow classified as their own species. How does Eappen one might ask after all blue catfish can get be well over one hundred pounds but channel catfish? Rarely exceed thirty the height of the blue cap is unsponsored and generally has a bluish Tam while the channel cat is generally gray with speckles or olive colored spots. But these relatively easy clues that distinguish channel calf can get a little bit murkier as the fish gets into the ten to fifty pound range channel cats will generally start losing their spots. They creep into old age anyone was fished for awhile can also tell you that coloration can bury within a species on occasion and Brown trout can look awfully silver, and a fish like the Atlantic salmon can look a lot like Brown trout, after it's been fresh water for a bit. But there's a bullet proof way to tell blue from channel, which is why so many folks who have seen the photo of ROY groves fish gave there's a fan on all of America's catfish called anal fan. It's located between the van and the tail fan on the bottom, or ventral side of the cat. Fish channel catfish has a curved anal fan with twenty four twenty nine anal rays. Blue cat has a straight anal fin with thirty two thirty six anal rays, although the photograph from nineteen forty nine faded yellowed blurry one can clearly see the anal fan his straight as a damn board before you start feeling too bad for ROY groves, take heart. In the fact that is reclassified channel catfish. Now, sit says a record blue catfish, albeit way lower than number one. It should also be noted that channel catfish had actually landed him the national record books for a while. However, aronie Asli, until it was beat by a real channel catfish, Wayne, fifty eight pounds from santee, reservoir, South Carolina in the year nineteen sixty four at this point ROY has the same fish land him in three record books. That's not a bad day on the water. If you're looking to your own name in the record books, south. Dakotas the blaze to do it. And right now, the channel cat record has been receptive zero meaning any entrant will be a state record holder. Just like when gold was discovered in Klondike, and folk struck out for the wild seeking fame and fortune. The waters of South Dakota are inviting the same kind of fever. The state has declared cat rush two thousand nineteen. All you have to be is the new verified channel cat record of eight pounds. Three ounces. I'm gonna hit you with one more. Before we go. The city council of New York City has proposed a Bill to ban I fail to make this complicated right out of the gate new for sales, specifically would be banned recycled, for as in old for on new garments will be fine as our vintage, I but not that new for also there are no restrictions on leather. Which I find odd seeing as how piece of leather is a for the furrow scrape the way I don't think this distinction matters one little bit critter who supply. Is the for leather? But the New York City city council must have a better understanding of animal heads than I do right now for market in New York City is located in the district south of Penn station in midtown Manhattan pretty fitting, one hundred fifty businesses creating eleven hundred jobs and bringing in around four hundred million dollars in revenue, despite that it's not what it once was one of the founding fathers of New York City is, of course, John Jacob Astor when he died in eighteen forty eight his network was an estimated twenty million dollars in today's money that would be six hundred twenty six million nine hundred fifty six thousand nine hundred sixty two dollars and three cents. Couple of interesting facts about Aster he opened his New York City shop in seventeen eighty six and then form the American fur company in eighteen eight the American fur company is credited by some for delaying British trade resources on the west coast just long enough to prevent permanent British establishment there. Additionally the men in the American fur company identified, what would become the Oregon trail and avert only opened the west settlement beaver pelts allowed Astor, she ate his fortune, which he later leverage it into myriad. Other business operations that build New York. If you look at the state seal of New York, you'll find not one beaver but to the city council might dick beaver out of New York, but you can't take the. You know what I'm trying to say? Thanks for listening to Cowes week in review. Remember to subscribe, hit that furthest right hand star. When you do if you want to get a hold meteorically, please. Right into ask Cal at the meat eater dot com. A. K C, A L, the meat eater dot com. Additionally, if you wanna check out more amazing stuff in the natural world. Please check out the meter dot com.

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